updates: the dog-sitter, coworker is taking credit for my work, and more

by Alison Green on December 3, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are four updates from past letter-writers.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

1. My neighbor, her nephew, my kid, and her dogs

I have a bit of an update on a situation I shared a few months ago, regarding my 13-year-old son Falcon dog-sitting for our neighbor.

I had been feeling quite guilty about how everything went down. Thank you to you, Alison, and the commenters for stating that Falcon was under no obligation to return the dog-sitting money. He went above and beyond in the care he provided to the dogs and he rightfully earned that money. I want to reassure everyone that I paid Falcon back his full fee.

I offered to refund part of the money to Jane because she was upset, and more so because her husband seemed irate. As several commenters pointed out, these people are neighbors with whom we cross paths often. Jane is also a gossip. In the heat of the moment, I was trying to protect us from reputational harm. Falcon mows lawns and waters plants for a few of our neighbors in the summer, and I was concerned he’d lose those opportunities.

All of this occurred shortly before school started. I walk my dog much earlier in the morning during the school year to ensure I get Falcon out the door and myself to work on time. As a result, I’ve only bumped into Jane a couple of times since the dog-sitting incident. I’ve maintained a professionally friendly demeanor with her, but I no longer go out of my way to chat. She seems the same as always, so I suppose that’s good. She hasn’t requested Falcon’s help with anything since the incident, and I’m not sure she will again. Falcon doesn’t seem bothered by any of it anymore. While I don’t think he’d accept another dog-sitting job from her, he’s still open to doing so for others.

Thank you to everyone who responded and for the concern you showed for Falcon.

2. My coworker is taking credit for my work when she applies for jobs

I spoke with my manager about what was going on, and although I wasn’t privy to the discussion he had with “Bella,” my work was removed from her portfolio a little while later. Her new job is in a completely different industry. I’d like to think that word got around about her behavior, but I think it’s more likely that she realized she just doesn’t enjoy this kind of work.

Happily, I’ve also found that since Bella left I’ve been more confident in general, and it shows in my work. I now have plenty of new, stronger pieces to add to my portfolio — and it’s a huge relief to know that nobody else is claiming credit for them.

I really appreciate the advice from you and your readers. I’d been stuck in this horrible working relationship for so long that I almost believed what was happening to me was normal and not worth kicking up a fuss about. All your advice was brilliant, but what I really needed was for someone to tell me my feelings about the situation were completely valid.

3. My job wants me to find coverage after I quit (#3 at the link)

I replied to my manager’s email and asked if I would be looking for coverage during my next shift. He told me no, I needed to complete my normal work tasks because the upcoming week would be busy. I politely informed him that, if this was the case, I would not be able to find coverage and would still be leaving on my last day. He stressed how busy they would be during the week after my last day and that they needed as many people to come in. I didn’t reply again, and that was the last interaction I had with this manager.

I have since moved, and I now have a job that pays better and has a far healthier employee culture! Thanks for the advice! It saved me a lot of stress.

4. A conversation about kittens led to a lecture from HR

Wow, it’s strange to think back to the time when that conversation was the only problem I’d had with Joan. I took your advice and gave the context to HR, who implied that they weren’t surprised to hear this about her. Joan and I have both worked for the company for a few years, but we had been on hybrid schedules without overlapping days until she changed her schedule this year. I didn’t know her well at all, but HR clearly did.

I am honestly just a quiet, shy, people pleasing person who likes cats, but somehow Joan decided that I, as a cat-lover, was her nemesis. The more she hated me, the more other people responded to her like she was in the wrong, and the more she doubled down. Here are some highlights:

  • She was often reading this book in the breakroom and fake-laughing to draw attention to it.
  • A friend made me cookies for my birthday and I brought the excess ones to work — they were homemade but not in my home. Joan still called them “urine cookies.” My coworkers ate them with exaggerated relish while saying “mmm, delicious urine.”
  • She made a point of sanitizing any surface she saw me touch (even wiping down the microwave between when I put my food in and when I got it out). I’m not the only cat owner in the office so she wasn’t protecting herself from cat germs very effectively.
  • She asked at a staff meeting whether the dress code could be updated to state that pet fur on clothing was unprofessional, and was told no.
  • People gift me a lot of cat-themed things, and I have several cat mugs. The one I used in the office got “accidentally” broken while I was working from home. So I brought another cat mug in, it got broken too. A third mug, the same thing (I had a lot of mugs). A coworker found some enamel (unbreakable) cat mugs in a dollar shop and bought 10 of them to put in the office cupboard. Joan complained to HR that she was being bullied, which HR dismissed.

I don’t need this kind of drama in my life so I spoke to my boss about going fully remote and it was approved. Now I spend every workday with a pile of kittens on my lap. Thanks Joan!

And thank you for your advice! Kitten tax attached.

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{ 219 comments }

{ 219 comments… read them below }

  1. Baked Alaska*

    I don’t have extra money for vengeance, but I’m not above donating to the local cat rescue in Joan’s name.

    1. ferrina*

      lol! This is an excellent idea!

      Though I might make my donation in honor of AAM and our wonderful LW.

    4. Seashell*

      I did get an e-mail today from a pet rescue that I’ve donated to before and that they have someone matching donations, so Joan may be my extra motivation to give.

    6. New Jack Karyn*

      You know, I love cats, AND I think that book is hilarious. But then Joan’s behavior just got worse and worse; it became clear that reading that book in the breakroom was only the tip of the iceberg.

    5. Strive to Excel*

      That is a precious pile of puffballs.

      Four babies, though! Whoof that’s a lot of work! (I say this as a part-owner of 5 so I’m not throwing any stones from my glass house haha).

        1. Worldwalker*

          You mean the set of yellow eyes with no apparent kitten attached?

          I like the front one of the tabbies. Look at those ears! Puppies grow to fit their feat, and kittens grow to fit their ears. That’s gonna be a big kitty, and I like big kitties and cannot lie.

          Who are we trying to kid? We wouldn’t kick any of those kittens out of bed for eating catnip! They’re all such cute little floofs.

    7. Our Lady of Shining Eels*

      Those kittens need one hundred thousand kisses EACH. They are sheer perfection! So happy you get to work from home with the little loves.

  3. That Library Lady*

    Good on LW4 for now being able to work from home with a basket of fluffballs! But it sounds like no action was taken against Joan by either her boss or HR, which surprised me. Seems it wasn’t really hammered into her that her behavior was unacceptable.

    1. MsM*

      I get the impression there’s no hammering that sort of thing into Joan short of firing her. (Why that’s not on the table when she’s literally driving people out of the office, not sure, but…)

      1. ubotie*

        She should be fired in my opinion. It’s only a matter of time before she escalates to violence honestly.

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          That’s my question. Cruelty to animals is a classic signal of well, sociopathy. I think Joan is a run of the mill horror of a human being, but that doesn’t mean that her “Dead Cat” book, her constant harassing of OP, her discussions about cat waste are less inappropriate. Looks like they carpeted over the broken stair. At least OP gets to use the elevator.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          Breaking someone’s property repeatedly is violence in my book. No, they couldn’t definitively prove it was Joan, it sounds like, but honestly.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            She claimed she was being harassed when someone bought OP cat mugs that couldn’t be broken. I can’t see any other possible interpretation.

            2. Emily of New Moon*

              How twisted do you have to be to think that someone protecting her belongings so that you can’t break them is bullying, but that actually breaking them is not?

            3. Karo*

              I assume it was framed as “they know I hate cats, therefore cat mugs are triggering,” not “they know I break mugs, therefore unbreakable mugs are triggering.”

        3. boof*

          Honestly even without the possibility of battery, I think the pervasive and hostile comments would be worth firing if she’s not going to change

        4. Media Monkey*

          100%. i would honestly be quite scared to work with someone who would behave like that about some kittens (and i don’t scare easily). but “joking” about drowning kittens, dead cats and breaking mugs as well as months of nasty comments is not normal.

      2. Strive to Excel*

        “You must be civil to your coworkers” is an enforceable rule. There was that one excellent response Alison had to the letter with the two feuding coworkers – if your pattern of behavior results in other people realizing you don’t like someone, then you need to knock it off even if the specifics aren’t individually against the rules.

        I would 100% be down for firing Joan or moving her instead of OP, but also OP wouldn’t get to WFH with a basket of kittens that way.

    2. Anon Again... Naturally*

      Agreed. The obvious bullying and escalating tactics would have me worried about ever working with her, even if I wasn’t one cat short of being a crazy cat lady (using the very scientific method that the limit equals 1 + the number of cats I already own).

        1. Jessastory*

          yeah, deliberately breaking people’s things is bad. How is she going to escalate from there? Stealing, breaking work things, being violent to a coworker?

        2. MigraineMonth*

          Even if they cannot prove she’s breaking things, she’s obviously:
          1) Repeatedly advocating for illegal behavior (animal abuse).
          2) Trying to get the dress code changed to punish a coworker.
          3) Repeatedly making comments that a coworker is disgusting/smelly and calling homemade treats “urine cookies”. Also harassing the same coworker by pretending they are dirty/unsanitary by following them around with sanitizer.
          4) Repeatedly complaining to HR about “harassment” in an attempt to get her target punished.

          All of this behavior should have been “final warning” behavior. That any was allowed to become repeated shows an incredibly weak management/HR. Where is this woman’s manager in all this?

          Your coworkers are pretty awesome, though, OP.

          1. I Have RBF*

            Yeah, Joan was doing the full on DARVO with the complaints about “bullying” when the unbreakable mugs were bought.

            Adorable kittens, though.

    3. Your Former Password Resetter*

      She should have been fired years ago. This is all so deeply hostile and inappropriate that any one incident should have ended in a stern conversation from her manager.

      Instead she’s been getting away with this for years. Management is seriously dropping the ball and refusing to manage here.

      2. Resentful Oreos*

        I agree with you. Even if I wasn’t the target, I’d worry that I’d be next on Joan’s excrement list for some petty reason. Unless her skills are truly niche and hard to replace, she sounds like an enormous pain in the rear to work with, and someone who brings down the morale of the whole office. Seriously, even if I were just a casual observer, it would be a terrible toxic atmosphere.

        I don’t understand why Joan hasn’t at least been written up or disciplined.

        1. Worldwalker*

          She sounds like a liability to the company. Even if her particular skills are hard to replace, they’re going to have to do that one day anyway. She could get run over by a bus. She could ragequit (sounds likely!). She could find a new job. She could get a month in jail for for disorderly conduct after she started a bar fight. She will, eventually, retire. Sooner or later, they’re going to have to replace her. It’s better to do it now, when they have time and some level of control, instead of running around like a headless chicken trying to do it when she announces she’s quitting on Friday.

  4. HiddenT*

    Wow. It’s really sad that Joan has nothing else in her life but a one-sided feud. I love that your coworkers had your back though, and that you don’t have to be in the office with her anymore.

    Thank you for the kitten tax! <3

    1. ferrina*

      I absolutely love the coworkers response in this. They were really key in neutralizing Jane. If Jane had impacted the coworkers at all (even getting them not to eat the cookies), Jane would see that as victory and she could have seriously undermined OP’s reputation.

      The coworker that brought in all the enamel cat mugs definitely gets an MVP award.

    2. MEH Squared*

      I completely agree with you. I really love that the OP’s coworker were so supportive of the OP. Also, that the OP was able to get their manager to agree to allow OP to work from home. You did good, OP.

      Also, look at those cute faces!

    3. Resentful Oreos*

      Hmmm, I can’t imagine why or how someone like Joan would wind up with an empty, sad life with nothing but petty feuds and bullying to keep her occupied! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Be a petty bully and have no friends.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      The coworkers are so great! We see so many letters where the response is like “oh that’s just how Joan is” so it’s really satisfying to see people rallying behind the LW and in such an entertaining way

    5. Morgan*

      That’s a really unfair and unkind assumption to make on very little evidence. It’s quite likely Joan has multiple one-sided feuds in her life.

    1. RLC*

      Those little faces seem to be asking “mom, why did you awaken us just for a photo op? We were sleeeeeping!” They’re adorable.

  6. Liz the Snackbrarian*

    As a cat person, I will never understand how someone can hate those widdle faces so much, let alone go to Joan’s level of disliking the animals and OP.

    That said if the mug thing happened to me, I would absolutely be fighting someone or asking that they replace it, so I’m impressed by OP’s self-restraint.

    1. Seashell*

      Even if they do hate cats, why keep harping on it? I don’t like snakes, but I wouldn’t tell a snake-owning co-worker that their pet is gross and creepy on a daily basis.

      1. Selina Luna*

        Exactly. I dislike rats. Two of my closest friends own rats. I am not a jerk about the rats. I just avoid them.
        I love snakes, though, and would totally own one, except they’re really hard to care for properly, and I have ADHD.

        1. Worldwalker*

          Actually, snakes are pretty easy. Much easier to care for than, say, a rat (or any other sort of small rodent). Way easier than my cats!

          Look into a corn snake.

          They’re comfortable at room temperature (they live in the wild as far north as New Jersey), they’re a convenient size, they’re enthusiastic eaters, they’re easy to handle, they come in a lot of interesting color/pattern morphs, etc. Buy from a reputable breeder, not a chain pet store; their snakes come from the reptile equivalent of puppy mills. I recommend going to a reptile expo. Ask the seller for advice on equipment and food; also, get a good corn snake book (I recommend either the one by the Bartletts or the one by the Loves — for some reason, corn snake experts seem to come in mated pairs). Also, don’t get a striped morph for your first snake; for some reason, corn snakes with stripes seem to be bitey — at least, all of mine have been.

          1. stratospherica*

            Yeah, it seems like snakes are easy to take care of, but since they need a well-regulated environment to be healthy and happy, the initial hurdle is pretty high. I’d love a snake but I don’t have the space for a well-sized vivarium right now, and I imagine the electricity costs from a heat lamp can get pricey. Once I have the right environment to properly take care of a snake though, I’ll take your advice and start with a corn snake!

            1. March*

              My fiancee and I have two snakes, a plains hognose and a corn snake. The priciest aspect in both cases was the enclosure, especially because we wanted max size for their comfort. The heat/UV isn’t actually all that big a chunk of our electricity bill, but we’re in Europe so that may render all my experience irrelevant. When it comes to food, though, I’ve never had a cheaper or more low-maintenance pet!
              Space is the thing, as you say. we’ve stacked the enclosures, and I would looooooooove to breed hognoses some day, but we’ll have to wait till we have at least double the living space and income for that XD

        2. boof*

          snakes are so easy BUT 1) many rentals count them as exotics (Even though there are many that are harmless and native/semi domestic) and 2) make sure you got one that’s used to eating thawed food 3) make sure everyone in the house is ok with rodents in the freezer or get a separate small freezer :P

      2. Worldwalker*

        Or fellow poster, I hope?

        When the new CEO of our company came on board, she was at a meeting of my team, getting to know all of us, in an online meeting. As she panned her camera around the room she was in (which is very geeky) she kind of skipped over a shelf with small cages. Naturally we asked, which is how we found out she keeps and raises tarantulas. She, in turn, was introduced to our various cats, dogs, one of my snakes, and the owner’s plush cat, because he’s allergic to the real kind. The weekly video meetings usually have at least one furry (or occasionally scaly) critter in at least one lap.

        I WFH, but unfortunately I don’t have a cuddle puddle; my cats would not permit it. And apparently they own the house (just ask them!); I only pay the bills.

      3. Pucci*

        I hate camel back crickets and, yes, I will keep harping on it. Cats, on the other hand , well I have 3

      4. ElliottRook*

        As someone with a phobia of one particular animal (not cats) who cannot be in the same room with that animal ever, I still know better than to be a dick about it to other people at work. I may think the nastiest things and avoid getting socially close to people with that animal, but, idk, so long as the bounds of my phobia are respected, keeping my job (by being a pleasant coworker) is more important than those feelings.

    2. raincoaster*

      I don’t think Joan hates cats. I don’t think she gives a fig about them. But for some reason she actively despises her coworker.

      2. GammaGirl1908*

        I think it’s a healthy dose of both, plus a sprinkling of unhinged, and then she is the type who thinks being mean / bullying is just hilarious.

    3. Learn ALL the things*

      I don’t love cats, but many of my coworkers do and that’s great! I like a lot of things that they don’t like too, and somehow we manage to coexist without destroying each other’s property.

    4. Emily of New Moon*

      I always thought that I wasn’t a cat person, until my husband talked me into adopting a cat. I’ve since fallen in love with our adorable little feline and I realize that I was a cat person all along, I just didn’t realize it.
      But even all those years that I dismissed cats as having attitude (cattitude?) I still thought they were cute.

      1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

        My spouse was like you. They didn’t grow up with cats and thought cats were a) not very smart (which, fair, one of our three isn’t) and b) not affectionate/had little personality. Then we adopted 2, he fell in love, and we got a third not that long ago.

    5. SimonTheGreyWarden*

      I mean (and I’m preparing for a figurative dog-pile here) I’m not at all a dog person. I never want to own one. I liked my sister’s dog when he was alive because he was EXCEEDINGLY well trained and an absolute lover, but I would never have wanted to own him and I don’t particularly care about her other two dogs. I will actively avoid dogs. But I would never tell someone I hate their dog, I look at dog pics and make all the appropriate noises, I can recognize that puppies are exceptionally cute in general, etc.

      I’m a cat and snake person completely.

  8. A large cage of birds*

    ‘My coworkers ate them with exaggerated relish while saying “mmm, delicious urine.”’

    Your non-Joan coworkers are great :-D

    1. Jack Straw from Wichita*

      I thought this same thing. I love that they got involved with backing you up (when it should have been your leader and HR doing it!!)

      1. GammaGirl1908*

        Joan is not a sympathetic character. She launched this one-sided feud and then kept bullying LW over a perfectly normal thing. I think being galled is the very least she should be feeling.

    3. Dek*

      Which kind of makes it even more of a shame that management allowed Jane to make the actual workplace so hostile that LW has to work from home.

      Though if it’s a choice between working with my cat on my lap or chatting with my coworkers, I know which I’d pick.

  10. Rey*

    I’m allergic to cats, and I have never felt the amount of animosity that Joan displayed toward you and your cats. And your basket full of kittens is so cozy, they are much better coworkers than Joan!

    2. Keeley Jone, The Independent Woman*

      There’s people who for various reasons don’t like cats. Then there are the Joans of the world who actively despise them. Those seem to be just awful, hateful people in general.

      1. Tegan Jovanka*

        Exactly. I have a friend who has pet snakes. I’m not a fan of snakes… but I wouldn’t wish them harm, either. I just prefer not to be around them. People who display Joan levels of hatred towards living creatures are scary and frequently dangerous.

    3. ampersand*

      Right?! I would love to hang out with cats, but I wouldn’t be able to breathe. This is not the fault of any cat.

      Also: Joan publicly reading that (anti)cat book is some Seinfeld-level ridiculousness! It would be really funny if she weren’t so awful/didn’t mean it.

      2. Cmdrshprd*

        I don’t know if the book itself is actually anti-cat. I am a cat lover and have cats. I looked at some of the pictures of it online and I have to say a lot of them are actually pretty funny IMO. The author even has had cats before, but is allergic to them. But I do tend to have a darker sense of humor.

        1. Bossypants*

          I have to give Joan props for even finding that book! It’s 40 years old! It’s not something I ever liked, but it’s just dark humor. Also, Joan sucks eggs.

          1. Resentful Oreos*

            I know, that book goes so far back I was surprised to see it pop up as still in existence! Probably a lucky thrift shop find among all the used Da Vinci Code and Fifty Shades piled in the book section. But, still, bringing in an ancient novelty paperback just to be mean to the LW makes me wonder if Joan puts any effort into her actual work?

            1. Hannah Lee*

              From what we’ve seen of Joan, she probably had “notify me if this becomes available” alerts up on every imaginable shopping sites just in case one popped up for sale.

        2. JSPA*

          I had that book when it came out–most of it is somewhere between surreal and Far Side humor–and I have always had (loved, long-lived) cats. The problem isn’t the book, the problem is fashioning one’s entire work persona around, “I’m the person that hates cats, and probably hates you, too.”

  12. toolegittoresign*

    I wonder what Joan’s issue really is. I know plenty of people who don’t like cats but they don’t behave like this. I have severe arachnophobia and I know people who own spiders as pets — and I wouldn’t dream of behaving this way around them in my personal life, let alone at work! It’s wild that someone can behave this way and think people are still going to respect them.

    1. Box of Kittens*

      There’s got to be something buried. My BIL does a kind-of-alarming spiel about how much he hates cats every time we see him, because he knows we have two. I used to laugh it off but it’s gotten to the point that I don’t think I’d let him in my house with my cats. I think the real issue is he’s very conservative and knows I am very not, and he wants to get a rise out of me I guess? Or throw his proverbial weight around in the most socially “acceptable” way he knows how? I don’t know, but it’s totally f*cked up.

      1. MsM*

        It might be the old “people with controlling tendencies don’t like cats because you can’t force cats to like you or behave on command if they really don’t want to” thing at work.

      2. Andie*

        Yeah, there’s definitely something else about OP4 that Joan doesn’t like or feels threatened by and it’s coming out cat-wise. It’s probably not personal (as HR and the rest of the office seem to know Joan is gonna Joan, so OP4 probably isn’t the only target) but that doesn’t make it any less frustrating/scary.

      3. toolegittoresign*

        Yes — when people do this, it feels like what they are doing is saying “What I really hate is you, but I know threatening you personally would be illegal and make me look bad, so I will instead try to threaten something I know you love in hopes it will make you upset.” And they think they’re being sneaky when, in fact, it’s so much more obvious and unhinged than if they just said “I don’t like you.”

      4. Potato Potato*

        Valid! Hating specific animals is one thing. Going on unprompted rants about how much you hate them? That’s unhinged.

        My dad is similar, and I had to stop him from trying to clip one of my cat’s whiskers because he thought it’d be funny. Luckily, he backed off when I explained that whiskers are not hair- cutting them actively hurts the cat.

        1. Strive to Excel*

          I’m sorry but he sounds like a miserable human. I’m glad you got him to see some sort of reason and I hope that he just had a Youtube-induced prank-brain spasm rather than that being his baseline.

          1. Potato Potato*

            This was more a case of him holding an electric razor during Thanksgiving preparations (long story) and the cat being curious. He thought it’d be along the lines of “the cat looks funny” not “the cat will be distressed for weeks”. Still- it’s very much a case of him trying to get attention in the worst possible way. (The reason he was holding the electric razor is because he doesn’t like my stubble and kept threatening to shave me.)

        2. Cat and dog fosterer*

          Cutting whiskers doesn’t actually hurt them! Kittens chew each others’ whiskers all the time when playing, to where a kitten with none is fairly common. They grow back.

          1. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

            It’s really not good for the cat though. Cutting off whiskers is depriving them of sensory information and can be extremely stressful for the cat.

            1. Worldwalker*

              On the other hand, cats shed whiskers periodically (vibrissae are hairs that, naturally, cycle and regrow). I keep an eye on the sunny spot on the bed and collect shed whiskers. They’re great for dioramas and miniatures! I used one to make a realistic-looking buggy whip for a tiny carriage; the plastic one that came with it would have been a couple of inches thick in scale. They’ve made whiskers on dragon minis, decorations in tiny flowerpots, etc.

              If you have a cat and have a dollhouse-building or miniatures-painting friend, they will undoubtedly be grateful if you save them a few whiskers. Check wherever the cat prefers to groom, and you’ll find one every now and again.

          2. Lenora Rose*

            It doesn’t hurt physically but it can be stressful.

            Humans have gotten PTSD from getting long hair forcibly cut*. Now imagine that happening AND that hair happens to help you measure the safe width of gaps and the flow of air currents.

            *forcibly being the key word, obviously.

            1. Worldwalker*

              Exactly. Vibrissae are sensors, and cutting them off is depriving a cat of an important sense. Anyone who does that should be forced to wear a blindfold until the whiskers grow back!

      5. Another Kristin*

        I think that’s it, Box of Kittens. Joan’s made one of her feelings extremely clear here, and that is her delight in making the OP feel uncomfortable and unsafe. That’s all the Joans of this world really care about.

        Also your BIL sounds awful, I feel bad for your sibling who’s married to him!

      6. A. D. Kay*

        I was unsurprised to read that he is conservative! I like to challenge them directly and tell them to their face: “In my experience, men who make a big deal out of how much they hate cats are pathetically insecure and are intimidated by strong women.” Ooh, that makes them mad!

        1. allathian*

          He’s still a mouse disguised as a man, and is afraid that people will find out.

          Obviously not literally, mouse here equals cowardly human, as in the saying “are you a man or a mouse?” Real mice are very effective at filling their ecological niche, thanks very much, but the biggest fear of a particular type of man, which this BIL seems to represent, is that women will despise them for being a coward. It’s the main reason why they act so “tough.”

    2. Literally a Cat*

      I’m not convinced anyone in that office really respect Joan based on the other things that had happened.

      Funny thing is, I’m absolutely terrified of dogs, and I will take offence of people who force dogs onto me after I requested no. But if there is a Joan about dogs like this, I’d be gifting the victim dog mugs despite of my fear, because Joan is so so out of line.

  13. Lisa*

    I wonder if LW4’s coworkers are sad to not have as many things to mock Joan with now that the LW is WFH. :)

      3. Lab Boss*

        OP having a lot of cat mugs obviously wasn’t bullying- to paraphrase advice I’ve seen here before, she wasn’t “having the mugs AT Joan.”

        If I worked there I feel like I’d suddenly develop a cat mug collection, and bring them to work. That WOULD, in fact, be “at” Joan.

    2. samwise*

      I’m sure Joan will come up with something/someone else to target.

      Why Joan has not been fired is a mystery.

      1. Grizabella the Glaimour Cat*

        I can’t help but wonder if she’s related to someone in the C suite, or something. It’s weird that HR is so familiar with her obnoxious behavior, and yet she just keeps rolling along like Old Man River, no matter what. She should have been fired a long time ago.

  14. I forget what name I used in the comments on that post*

    #1: Thank you for your update! I was really hoping you would update and I’m so glad it’s all resolved fine for you and your family.

    1. ferrina*

      Yes! I am so happy that LW1 updated us- I felt so bad for Falcon, and I’m glad it hasn’t impacted him in anyway. Great parenting, LW!

    3. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I was happy to see this update, too! I maintain my opinion from the original post that OP is a good parent and Falcon is lucky to have them.

    1. Honeybadger*

      My question too! Why is HR allowing Joan to bully and harass another employee like that? Seems to me that HR and the manager need to step up their game. Joan isn’t irreplaceable.

    2. EBN*

      Agreed! The fact that HR, her manager, or anyone is not stepping in with regards to Jane’s behavior is also pretty bad! Not quite as bad as Jane’s behavior itself, but not much better. I’m not sure if this is a missing staircase problem or Jane is truly valuable in her other parts of her job, but Jane’s escalating behavior sounds like it needs to be directly addressed pronto!

    1. Worldwalker*

      The nether part of my digestive tract takes issue with that.

      It has pointed out that it performs a useful and in fact important function, and I would be rather badly off without it, which cannot be said of Joan.

  19. Green Mug*

    If there is one silver lining to the story, it’s that we get to collect the kitten tax. Thank you Joan for your incomprehensible animosity towards adorable, fluffy, bundles of love.

  20. Coffee Protein Drink*

    I’ve been puzzling as to why HR hasn’t done something about Joan besides saying she wasn’t being bullied by the existence of cat mugs. I’m guessing that there’s no proof Joan broke the LW’s mugs on purpose. .

    I’m glad the rest of the office has been responding to her, but HR shouldn’t be leaving the handling of Joan to them. While it’s great there’s a solution to have LW live at home, Joan has an ugly pattern of behavior that needs addressing.

    1. Airy*

      Yeah, perhaps they have some arcane process they’re required to follow to justify showing Joan the door, but they need to get a move on. Getting along reasonably well with the rest of the staff is a basic part of everyone’s job duties.

    2. MCT*

      I wonder if it’s a situation where she constantly walks right up to the line, but arguably doesn’t quite cross it (“nothing I’m doing is hurting anyone or violating thier rights”) and some of it can’t even be proven to have been done by her (“I didn’t break those mugs, and you can’t prove I did”), but she’s managed to provoke a few actions out of others that, taken in isolation, could be legitimate grounds for complaint, like the OP’s comment that prompted the original letter (“other people are bullying me/picking on me”), and the end result is that HR doesn’t feel they really have the grounds to fire her.

      To echo another poster, Joan sounds like a psychopathic bully, and I think this is how psychopathic bullies often operate.

      There’s a joke in here somewhere waiting to be found about how cat mugs violate Joan’s religion, but I’m not quite able to find it.

      1. Coffee Protein Drink*

        right up to the line, but arguably doesn’t quite cross it

        The bit with the book definitely fits in this category.

        1. Lab Boss*

          Yep. If there’s any kind of protection in place that makes it hard to fire Joan just because (legal, contract, union, or even just overly-careful company policy) then her behavior is perfectly calibrated to keep her job. It doesn’t matter if it’s super obvious she’s fake laughing to taunt OP with the book- how do you actually PROVE it?

          1. Resentful Oreos*

            Makes me wonder if Joan puts the same energy into her actual job as, well, dancing right up to the line of plausible deniability and taunting everyone about it. Because, dang, that’s a LOT of time and effort Joan is putting into her Mean Girl act.

            1. goddessoftransitory*

              I was going to say–Joan better be one of about six people who can launch a missile or something because otherwise she is spending about ten times as much energy on being a glassbowl as on doing her job.

    3. boof*

      I don’t see why there needs to be “proof” when joan is clearly a PIA in a lot of ways and it’s not like “We can only fire if we have unequivocal proof she broke property” is a rule pretty much anywhere (Except maybe some very weird and bureaucratic union situation perhaps?(

  21. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    Joan in #4 is absolutly wild!! You can dislike an animal, even hate them but to go this far!!

    Honestly, some of the comebacks I would have said is
    “well dogs lick themselves and eat poop so they aren’t clean either.
    if we didn’t have cats there would be a huge infestation of rats, and we probably would still have the plague, since places with cats had less plague because less rats.

    1. magic*

      I don’t think trying to negotiate with or win an argument with someone whose actions are so beyond the pale is a good idea!

    2. Salty Caramel*

      Personally, I thought LW’s original comment was hysterical.

      It was also a one-off that should have been taken care of with a sincere apology and LW not doing it again. LW showed that she could be considerate of Joan’s feelings by asking if they should talk about something else. None of this BS had to happen.

      1. emmelemm*

        Yeah, I thought it was the perfect retort. Don’t start talking to *me* about cats’ anuses unless you want to hear some choice words in reply.

    3. blue rose*

      The way Joan was carrying on, I wouldn’t choose to engage. This is a “wrestling with pigs” situation. Also, idk why you’re bringing up dogs. It’s not like Joan is a dog supremacist (she has not even mentioned dogs), she just really hates cats and wants to make everyone aware of that. To what end, only Joan can say.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        This might be a case where a “oh, Joan” or “there you go again, Joan” said with a mix of boredom and bemusement would be the way to go. Nothing actionable, nothing that indicates she’s getting a rise out of you.

        Though, TBH, LW likely chose the best approach … loop in manager & co-workers, and then steer far clear of Joan, having limited contact to either witness her ridiculousness or possibly respond to it. Life is too short to waste time around that much toxicity and chaotic evil. Plus LW’s solution means KITTENS as office-mates. That’s a win-win!

  22. Zona the Great*

    Someone who says such vile things would forever remain on my ish list. I cannot believe there are such horrible people in this world.

  23. Silver Robin*

    I am really glad that your coworkers had your back and that being fully remote was both possible and pleasant for you (kitten puddles are the best).

    That said, something does not quite sit right with me that *you* are the one who disappeared from the office. You were not the one making weird comments in the office. Is fully remote your ideal preference? If it is, great! If not…is Joan’s job not possible to do remotely? Because if it is, why does management not tell her that she has to work remotely until she can earn back hybrid privileges? She clearly cannot be trusted to maintain professionalism in person, so part of me wants to say she should not be allowed to come to see people in person.

    And yes, I know some people work best remotely and that it is their heaven, I am not trying to debate that. But I, personally, am one of the people who massively prefers hybrid and if I were in this situation, I would be rather peeved that the best solution was that I stop coming in to the office where I have really cool coworkers to have lunch with while Joan gets to keep coming in and be weirdly hostile about cats.

    1. Nina*

      Right?! Joan is so inappropriate at work and disruptive. Good that OP gets to work from home but did no one address Jane’s comments?

    2. Airy*

      And everyone working in office is still stuck with her. I wonder who she’ll choose as her next arch-enemy? Because spiteful beasts like her tend to need to have one to feel whole.

      1. Silver Robin*

        The professional version of “and then there were none”. Eventually it will just be Joan, roaming the desolate swath of cubicles as the remaining shard of cat mugs crunch beneath her steps…

    3. Resentful Oreos*

      Even if I were not a cat person (which I am) I’d feel uncomfortable around someone like Joan who stoops to such levels of petty vindictive behavior. I’d wonder if I was next. Or if she was just spreading “mean girl cooties” around. Her development was arrested at middle school, it seems like, and it’s no fun working with someone like that.

      1. Worldwalker*

        Exactly. It’s not about the cats — it’s about the fact that this is a person who is intentionally tormenting a co-worker. The fact that she’s getting away with it is bad, but the fact that she thinks tormenting a co-worker is okay is worse. It shows that she’s a vile person with zero sense of ethics or morality. I would not want to be alone with her, ever.

    4. I Have RBF*

      That makes the assumption that hybrid is a “privilege”. Remote is not a punishment, and hybrid is not a privilege. They are just different modes of working.

  29. Former Lab Rat*

    LW#4: those kittens are adorable! You are an angel for fostering kittens. Wish people were better at spaying/neutering so animal shelters didn’t fill up.

    I had a truly awesome black cat for over 18 years. She was convinced she was a hunting jungle leopard. I miss her!

  30. Resentful Oreos*

    KITTENS! I want to kiss each and every little nosie! They are simply adorable. My own kitten is now a “teenager” and I’m glad I got a lot of photos of her when she was little!

    If I were Joan’s boss, I’d tell her, “Joan, if you don’t stop your petty vindictive shenanigans right now, Urine Trouble.” Or I’d check the age laws to make sure I’m not accidentally employing a middle-schooler. Because Joan has never mentally grown past middle school. The petty grudge holding! The broken mugs! The chortling over a silly novelty book that is what, 40 years old now?

    I can’t imagine Joan being well-liked in the workplace unless she’s one of those “brilliant jerk” types who can’t be replaced, or it’s a government or other job where the process for putting someone on a PIP and then firing them is slow and bureaucratic. Even if the cat hating nastiness wasn’t directed at me, personally, I’d feel uncomfortable working around someone like Joan; she is petty, vindictive, and untrustworthy.

    I want an update to the update that says “Joan, Urine The Unemployment Office Now.”

    1. Bird names*

      Yeah, Joan unfortunately shows that growing older and growing up don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

    2. Worldwalker*

      If somebody can’t be replaced, you’re in deep kimchee if they threaten to quit. Better to make plans to replace them now than have to deal with the chaos when they get headhunted away by a competitor.

  31. MsM*

    LW2, I’m sorry you’re having to compete with kittens, but you don’t need us to tell you that you’re awesome!

  32. Juicebox Hero*

    If cat hair on your clothes is unprofessional… well, then I’m just unprofessional as all get-out.

    I’m owned by four cats and their hair follows me wherever I go.

    1. Random Bystander*

      I have one who is a black-and-white tuxie girl. I swear that if I am wearing dark-colored clothing she will shed white fur and if I am wearing light-colored clothing she’ll shed her black fur. Which does not change the fact that she is the world’s sweetest little cat (she’s 12 going on 13) about whom we’ve always said that the world is divided into the people who love TV and the people who haven’t met TV yet.

      1. Worldwalker*

        My calico’s white areas seem to shed the most. She sheds tons more than my Bengal. When she does her spring fur dump, you could knit a kitten!

        2. Jane*

          In my experience it’s the undercoat that mostly sheds! My girl is dilute calico but her undercoat is of course kind of gray whitish and that’s what sheds. But like many cats she has lots of agouti fur so you usually can’t even find a single hair that’s all one color to blend in with anything lmao.

  33. Emily*

    #4 I am glad you are able to work at home now with your adorable foster kittens, but I’ll echo what some other commenters have said about HR, they are really dropping the ball here. If they weren’t surprised to hear what you told them about Joan when you went back to them, then they should have dug in more when she made her initial complaint. Instead of just reprimanding you they should have asked you for more details. Also, it’s a real failing of your HR/manager that Joan’s behavior has been allowed to continue.

  34. Lilo*

    I really hope Falcon’s future employment goes better. I hope we helped LW guide him in to better professional boundaries in the future.

    1. Momma Bear*

      LW’s neighbor was way out of line. I get the impression she wasn’t thinking about a CHILD being put in that situation, both the random adult and the hour. I’m glad that LW and Falcon can move on, but I certainly would do nothing for her in the future. LW said the husband was irate – sounds like all the more reason to keep a wide berth.

  36. raincoaster*

    If Falcon enjoys petsitting he should sign up with an app or agency because this is a VERY busy year and he’ll make a lot of money. I was booked for Christmas in June!

    1. Rara Avis*

      I think you have to be 18 for most apps and agencies. At least that’s what my 16 yo has discovered about getting into dog-walking.

  37. The cat named snowball*

    Cats hate me (they hiss and run away) but I would never do any of this. The fact she read a book like that just to tick you off is hilarious yet sadistic. And I love the coworker who brought in 10 cat mugs!
    Completely unrelated side note: I’ve been told I look (in demeanor, not appearance) like a big, white, fluffy cat, the kind named snowball.

  38. Ms. Norbury*

    OP#3, you were far classier in your answer to your former manager than they deserved. Good for you for getting out!

  39. Beezus Quimby*

    The nerve of someone claiming to be bullied after *repeatedly destroying her colleague’s property* is amazing.

    1. Nosy*

      Though I do love the image I have in my head of Joan smashing a cat mug on the ground and OP pulling a new one out of thin air and setting it on the counter as the scene continues on an infinite loop.

    2. Emily*

      Beezus Quimby: Yep! Though I’ve noticed bullies love to claim they are actually the ones being bullied.

    3. Irish Teacher.*

      She reminds me of this student I had who came into my class loudly complaining about how he’d been suspended for picking on another student and how the student he’d been picking on was “just a bully” because they reported it.

      This kid spent his time just deliberately picking fights with everybody.

  40. Jennifer Strange*

    I am uncomfortable around most cats due to a couple of bad experiences, but I want to adopt a bunch now just to spite Joan.

    1. Worldwalker*

      Your local shelter can supply the perfect one for you. Kittens are cute but an older cat will be much calmer and generally unable to fly. And you’ll get to meet the cats (some shelters even have openings for volunteer cat-cuddlers) so you’ll be able to find one you’re comfortable with.

      1. Mary*

        My local pet store partners with a rescue, so there’s another option.

        Or a cat cafe, if there’s one nearby, instead of jumping straight to adoption

  41. Mrs. Pommeroy*

    Thank you to all Letter Writers for your updates! I often find myself going through the aam archive and it’s always more satisfying if there is additional information on if/how things were (/not) resolved and where letter writers are (at their time) now.

    LW1, I’m keeping my fingers crossed for your neighbour staying civil in future, and for your other neighbours to keep offering Falcon little work opportunities. I think you handled the whole situation as well as you possibly could and you sound like a great parent.

    LW2, it’s great that the situation with Bella get resolved. It’s awesome how much more confident you are in yourself and your work! Congratulations on getting happier!

    LW3, wow was your former manager stubborn! Stubbornly refusing to accept reality, really. Good on you for sticking to your plan and congrats on finding a much better job!

    LW4, everything about Joan has been said by others. The kittens, though, I can’t not remark on. They Are PERFECTION! Thank you for the lovely picture.

  42. Forested*

    Why on *earth* did they let Joan continue doing that? Whatever her beef with cats is, that’s horrible bullying and inappropriate ways to talk to another coworker.

    1. Resentful Oreos*

      It sounds like something that would drag down and demoralize a whole team or office. Joan is either someone’s pet, her skills are rare and hard to replace, or the company is dysfunctional.

  43. CzechMate*

    LW 4 – Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? I am going to admit that I don’t like cats (when I was born, my mom’s cat was jealous that I took up the mantle of “family baby” and attacked me a lot in the first 4-5 years of my life) but that is absolutely bananapants bizarre. Like, bordering on pathological. Like, why has no one talked to Joan about being so weird? Definitely would love to hear another update on this!

    1. Resentful Oreos*

      I remember it from my childhood (or teenagerhood) too! It must have been one of those lucky thrift shop hauls. Or Joan loved the book so much she’s saved it for decades! Either way, the thought of a grown adult reading some juvenile humor book from decades past at work makes me laugh.

  46. Higher-ed Jessica*

    I have to admit if I were one of LW’s other coworkers I’d be jealous of her getting to WFH and would probably have to express this by coming in every day laden with as much cat-themed jewelry as the dress code would possibly allow, in the hope that Joan would target me next and I’d suffer the same fate.

  47. Observer*

    #4 – Cat talk and a cat hater

    How is it that Joan *broke* multiple mugs and is still employed? This person is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    1. Literally a Cat*

      The whole situation makes me think HR is too afraid to do their job. Which is likely to end up in a much bigger liability down the line.

  48. Dek*

    “A coworker found some enamel (unbreakable) cat mugs in a dollar shop and bought 10 of them to put in the office cupboard. Joan complained to HR that she was being bullied, which HR dismissed.”

    What in the wide world of sports…

    Breaking your stuff isn’t bullying, but mugs existing is?

    I’m glad HR isn’t holding LW accountable for Jane’s behavior, but it’s appalling that they’re letting her actions continue.

  49. Ineffable Bastard*

    LW1, I am glad to know that things are fine. It’s hard navigate tricky situations while trying to balance educating a child and keeping life in a neighbourhood drama-free for the sake of the same child. You did well.

  50. Normal Name*

    LW #2, I’m so glad you have a happy update!! I’ve thought about your letter more than once since you submitted it

  53. Jo*

    People like Joan make me want to hate all of humanity. But people like the supportive coworkers (yummy urine LOL) give me some hope.

  55. Aphra*

    Dear OP#4 I regret to note that you have failed to pay the correct amount of Kitten Tax and consequently your account is 15 Kitties in arrears. Please remit the outstanding 15 Kitties at your earliest convenience. Signed, Kitten Deprived Due to Landlord, Dagnabbit.

  56. Ooo Fluffy!*

    Making the suggestion that any and all submitters if they can, pay a kitten/dog/pet/cute fluffy tax as this is always great to see

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