employee runs to work and drips water and mud everywhere when he arrives

by Alison Green on January 13, 2025

A reader writes:

One of our staff, Leonard, runs to work. Given our local climate, this often results in him arriving damp and/or cold, which has caused issues:

• Our offices/meeting rooms have glass walls, so he uses the shared washroom to change on arrival – tromping through in muddy shoes or bare feet, washing his pants in the sink, and dripping water down the hall. On one occasion he dropped soggy underpants beside a female coworker. He immediately apologized and has shown no other signs of being creepy, but she was Not Pleased.

• He runs a space heater constantly. He’s not the only one, but he’s the most blatant, to the point that our workplace occupational safety committee has threatened to do a formal inspection of our offices (which they’ve traditionally looked the other way on). If they did, that would result in confiscation of not only the space heater but other not-exactly-approved appliances like personal tea kettles. Alison, there would be riots.

• When we have morning in-person meetings, he’s visibly shivering within a few minutes of starting. He never complains or tries to get out of meetings, but he looks so uncomfortable that others have (privately) requested meeting online or later instead.

The thing is, we have an on-site gym, with lockers, showers, even a sauna. However, it is not free – and not cheap! – for staff, so most (including Leonard) have not purchased memberships. I feel like all of these issues would be solved if he just bought one, but I also don’t think any of these issues are severe enough that we can compel him to spend his own money on gym access (and unfortunately the cost is unlikely to change anytime soon). Your thoughts?

Yeah, you shouldn’t push him to buy a gym membership, but you should lay out clearer expectations about what he can and can’t do in the office.

It’s reasonable to say that he can’t leave a mess of mud or water in the bathroom or the halls, and you can flag for him that people have privately asked to reschedule meetings because his visible shivering makes them feel like they’re imposing on him.

The space heater is a little different. If other people also run space heaters in violation of the office rules, you can’t really tell him that he can’t. But you could come up with specific modifications he needs to make — like if other people are only getting away with it because they’re using them rarely whereas he’s running his full-blast all day, you can tell him he needs to pull his usage back. In fact, since he’s presumably running it because he’s cold, you could fold that in the conversation about shivering.

Here’s framing that would cover it all: “I need you to figure out a better solutions for mornings when you arrive wet or cold from running to work. Fairly often you’ve come in with muddy shoes or bare feet and washed off in the bathroom sink, which leads to mud and/or water on the floors in the bathroom and the hallways. Can you find a solution that doesn’t leave that sort of mess for others? … I also want to figure out what we can do about your temperature when you arrive very cold since a few people have privately asked me to reschedule morning meetings because they feel awful that you’re shivering. Unfortunately, running a space heater all day isn’t a solution — we’re not supposed to have them at all, and while the facilities team has been looking the other way, they will eventually remove them for everyone if they realize you’re running one so frequently.” (Writing this out makes me realize I might actually leave the shivering out of it — both because people are allowed to be visibly cold and because it’s likely to be solved by addressing the other issues anyway.)

If he seems stumped about what to do, you could mention that the on-site gym could be a solution — but at the same time, be aware that it might not be realistic financially and/or he may not want a gym membership, which is a whole different thing than running outside and also doesn’t solve his commute. But ultimately your job isn’t to solve this for him; you just need to lay out the pieces that need to change (mostly, no mess in the bathroom and halls) and let him decide how he’ll do that.

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  1. Seashell*

    Why is he washing his pants at work? Is he getting all the sweat out and putting them back on? If so, that’s insane. He needs to bring a change of clothes and to do his laundry at home.

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    1. new laptop who dis*

      Right? Plus how about a warm sweater or hoodie or something so that he’s not shivering? I don’t understand this at all.

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    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I was assuming these are sweats or leggings or jogging pants that he wears while running, and wants to get the mud off before he runs back home at the end of the day.

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        1. becca*

          This might honestly be part of why he’s running the space heater. The air circulation/heat will help his clothes dry.

          It also depends on the climate. I live in a dry climate, and it would never occur to me that my clothes might still be wet after 8 hours if I had hung them up or draped them over a chair for the purpose of getting them dry.

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          1. Someone Else's Boss*

            Sincere question – Would you think it was weird if you walked into someone’s office and their workout clothes were draped over a chair to dry?

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            1. ferrina*

              Absolutely. Having laundry openly sitting in your office on a regular basis is not professional behavior. I’d be learning way more about my coworker’s habits than I want to- I do not want to know if your workout clothes need to dry after you work out.

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              1. ubotie*

                “Having laundry openly sitting in your office on a regular basis is not professional behavior.”

                I’ve been working since about 1999, in a variety of jobs and workplaces but I can still give you the name, job title, office location, etc of one particular colleague from over 20 years ago–because they biked to work almost every day and therefore, hung their bike clothes on their office door to “air out” as a result. And other hardcore cyclists in the office were like, “okay that is so gross.”

                They also kept multiple changes of clothes in the office so that by the end of the semester, you could have opened a Filene’s Basement with the amount of (not super laundered) professional wear in there. So then everyone on the floor was like, “oh wow this is super gross.”

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            2. e271828*

              Yes. The work space is not a drying room for laundry. And, no matter how much rinsing in the sink is done, the clothes smell. Not to mention the increased humidity.

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              1. UKDancer*

                Yes, can confirm. In my early work days I had a colleague Fergus who insisted on running into work, storing his damp and not very well laundered clothes in the shared office. The smell was not good.

                My company had a perfectly good room in the basement with lockers, changing facilities etc and a drying room because a lot of people in London cycle to work. We pretty much ganged up on him to tell him he needed to store his stuff in the basement room and not make our office smell unpleasant. It’s not a nice smell for other people and it made the not very spacious room even more crowded.

                Let’s not mention the fact that persuading Fergus not to change in the shared office in front of the 5 other people in it was also a task.

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            3. Annie2*

              I wouldn’t and in fact this is a pretty common occurrence in my sporty, rainy city. I do think there’s a difference though between “I biked here and my rain pants are soaked” and sweaty workout clothes.

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            4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

              Yep. I worked in an office that had an small on-site gym with showers. Lots of my colleagues were ex-military and would go for a run during lunch hour. I worked out on the weight equipment at 7am, took my shower, put on my suit, and went up to my office. My gym clothes stayed in a bag, behind my desk. The most exposed anything got was sometimes some dry-cleaning hanging on the hook on the back of the door.

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            5. Baunilha*

              Yes, and I’ve done it once: I had a ten-minute walk from the bus stop to my workplace and one time it was raining so heavily that I had to hang my coat, scarf and shoes to dry when I got there.
              But this sort of thing should be a one-time ocurrence.

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                1. duinath*

                  Yeah, there’s a difference between “this got rained on” and “I tried to wash this in the sink and also this includes my undies”.

                  If he wants to run, that’s great for him, but it seems to me he can do it after work. Or before work, with a shower at home.

                  Point being, he doesn’t actually need to buy into the workplace gym, he just needs to plan better and make showing up to work prepared to do his job in a professional manner that does not burden his coworkers a priority.

            6. Lexi Vipond*

              Not *very*, because I work in a university (by which I just mean that it’s fairly casual, not that it’s particularly dysfunctional). But I’d find it pretty damn weird if it was dripping mud, or if it was their underwear.

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            7. goddessoftransitory*

              Yes. A one time mishap, like getting splashed by a car or such, would be one thing. But turning your office into your laundry room isn’t a good look.

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          2. AnotherOne*

            if that’s the case, it feels like he needs to problem solve.

            maybe it’s he needs to bring a change of clothes (both for work and transit home) and his dirty running clothes go into a bag for him to clean at home. but something.

            cuz that doesn’t feel appropriate.

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          3. fidget spinner*

            I’m surprised the LW didn’t say he smelled…. Wet running clothes absolutely REEK. And washing them in the sink is not enough to get that stench out.

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            1. amoeba*

              Not necessarily, if mine are freshly laundered, the sweat from one run/workout session is pretty odourless! They do start to smell (a little) after two or three, but also only noticeably when you basically put your nose to them. Which is when I wash them again.

              I assumed he’s mostly rinsing out thf mud, and the underwear wasn’t washed but just wet from the rain? But yeah, he still needs to find a better solution – maybe bring a small towel to dry off the worst before he enters the office, and leave the rinsing for home. Plus some warmer clothes (a hoodie to leave in the office) to take care of the temperature issue.

              Honestly, this sounds entirely solvable by a few tweaks to his routine, don’t think he needs to give up running to the office completely and wouldn’t suggest it! (As a runner- the gym is really not the same thing at all and I’d find the suggestion pretty weird!)

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        1. hodie-hi*

          This is the solution!
          No washing clothing in the bathroom, no drippy messes. Keep a sweater and a way to warm up cold feet in the office to get warmer faster (microwaveable slippers to wear discreetly under the desk for the first 10 minutes after arrival).

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          1. Frieda*

            That isn’t a product I’m familar with (the slippers) but I also don’t want other people’s footwear in the office microwave! Do they go in a container of some kind?

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                1. LegallyBrunette*

                  Super fun upgrade to all this is a heated foot massager unit – small and quiet enough to live under your desk unobtrusively. There’s a great one available through Bezos’ mail-order service with 15, 20, and 30 minute intervals :)

        2. Sillysaurus*

          As a runner in the PNW, yes! This is the solution. I always bring a change of clothes if I’m going to be out and about for a while after a run. I’ll even change before driving home if the trail I was running on is more than 30 minutes from my house.

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      4. goddessoftransitory*

        Even if that’s so, I would say it would be more practical to store his dirty clothes in a plastic bag and wear fresh workout stuff for the run home (assuming he does so. If not, it makes even LESS sense to wash all his stuff in a communal bathroom sink and have soggy clothing all over the shop.)

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    3. Caramel & Cheddar*

      At first I thought this was the British “pants” as in underwear, but the reference to underwear later made me second guess myself and confused me even more.

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      1. stratospherica*

        See, it reinforced to me that it was underwear – especially given the mention of the climate meaning he’s frequently showing up wet or shivering.

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    4. A Poster Has No Name*

      Yeah, I’m a little baffled by the sink.

      Is he running to work in his work clothes then rinsing them out and putting them back on wet?

      Or is he rinsing out his running clothes to lay them out to dry for the trip back home?

      Either way, it seems like extra clothes (or at least pants/underwear) are in order. Yeah, that may be extra weight, but if you’ve committed to running for your commute, a pound or two extra for fresh clothes seems like a very worthwhile tradeoff.

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        1. Drago Cucina*

          If it were only as easy as a sweater. The other day in my office I had on two shirts, socks, heavy pants, a lap blanket, a shoulder wrap, and fingerless gloves. I was still cold. It’s not medical–believe me I’ve checked. I’ve been this way since I was a toddler.

          I had hoped when I had hot flashes I might finally be warm. Unfortunately no.

          It is no as easy as just adding another layer.

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          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Some people just run hot and others just run cold. When I was a young music teacher I was always freezing in my teaching room. I’d wear long underwear inside in the winter and run a space heater and just barely be warm enough. Meanwhile, I had a teenage student who’d wear a mini-skirt and flip flops – and bare legs! – in January in MA and complain that she was too hot.

            CW: weight talk. I used to be quite skinny and only when I gained some weight did I stop being cold allllll the time. Come to think of it, now that I work from home and can control the temperature of my workspace, that helped a lot too. I still run cold, though.

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            1. Turquoisecow*

              The weight thing is sometimes related, sometimes not. My ex girlfriend and I were about the same height and weight and she was always warm and I was always cold. In retrospect it was probably a good thing we didn’t live together.

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              1. Heirloom Tomato Heiress*

                I thought when I got pregnant I would finally not be cold all the time! Nope. We did keep the house much warmer the first winter of our minis, so I wasn’t cold but not because of hormones!

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                1. Turquoisecow*

                  Yeah I was as cold while pregnant as not, it didn’t change anything on that front for me.

              2. Rain, Disappointing Australian*

                Seconding “weight’s not always related”.

                I run quite cold. I ran colder when I weighed less, for sure*, but weight is not the main reason for my body to just be Like That. I just exist in a state of perpetual brrr. :P

                * Amusingly, one of the biggest reasons I run less cold now is actually medically transitioning. Testosterone makes you run warmer – who’dathunk?

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                2. lanfy*

                  It’s a generally known thing that men run warmer than women in general, though honestly I assumed that was more to do with natural muscle mass/distribution than T.

            2. Spooz*

              I have gained a lot of weight having four babies in seven years and hoooooo boy it’s nice to finally be comfortable all year round! I’d like to shape up a bit because I’m now officially obese (which, wow, was quite a shock) but I honestly don’t want to lose too much weight because I remember the years of always being cold no matter how many layers I had on.

              But it can also be a body composition thing, not just an insulation thing. Muscle generates more heat than fat, which is why men are typically warmer than women. So I just need to make sure I get really hench as part of my getting fit! *rofl!*

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            3. SimonTheGreyWarden*

              Weight sometimes does make a difference. Not always, though. I’m significantly overweight, and both when I was younger and weight a lot less and now I’ve always run cold. My feet are essentially freezing all winter long. The only time I wasn’t constantly cold in the winter was when i was pregnant; I ran hot for those 8months, but as soon as he was out, I was cold again.

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              1. TGMC*

                ditto on weight not always making a difference…I’m relatively lightweight and generally run cold. I lived in a 4br apartment for awhile with a gal who had to be 3-4x my weight/mass, and *she* was in hoodies and sweats and the thermostat was at 85 in the winter…I was in shorts and had my window open to the Iowa winter. bonkers! I suspect there’s more medical to her situation, but dang it was incongruous being the hot one.

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              2. SarahKay*

                As the owner of extremely cold feet, about five years ago I got a heated mat for my feet, and it’s been a total life-changer.
                Actually, I have three of them, one for work and two for home, because after 40+ years of cold feet having an easy way for them to be warm – warm, I tell you! – is just so, so amazing.
                They run on about 50 watts of power, which is about the same as an old-fashioned incandescent bulb for a side lamp, so they’re cheap to run and (other than when I’m stuck in a meeting room) I now mostly have warm feet.

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            4. MigraineMonth*

              I acclimate really well to the seasons. Which would be awesome if I didn’t work in temperature-controlled buildings where I freeze the whole summer and roast the whole winter.

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        2. Sillysaurus*

          Just a sweater won’t help much if the clothes underneath it are wet, though. As a person who runs 50+ miles a week in the PNW, I’ve tested this quite a bit and can verify that until you change into dry clothes there will be shivering.

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          1. KateM*

            Huh, I understood it as he does put on dry clothes but is still shivering, I had no idea he was still in wet clothes all day long?? I’d think that would have been mentioned by the OP as that would be pretty visible.
            Just when I myself go to a run, I need to 1) rinse my upper body, no matter how lightly (usually happens from water bottle in forest) 2) put on dry shirt 3) preferably also another warm layer.

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      2. AnotherOne*

        is he maybe taking a sink shower? though there are other options. he could invest in something like dude wipes that he keeps in the office so he could wipe down in the bathroom post run.

        it feels more appropriate for him to have a bag of transition from run to work supplies at the office.

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      3. goddessoftransitory*

        Or just not run on one day, and use that day to drop off fresh clothing/take your old stuff home.

        This is one of the bigger obstacles to “working out at work” that I’ve seen–it may not be that the workout itself is such a big deal, but everything SURROUNDING it becomes one–changes of clothing, washing out of stuff, showering/getting work presentable–all take up time and space that isn’t private.

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    5. Myrin*

      He needs to bring a change of clothes and to do his laundry at home.

      The fact that OP says he uses the washroom to “change on arrival” and the mention of his unmentionables underpants makes me think that he’s doing exactly that.

      As for why he washes his trousers at all, I’d speculate it’s because they’re apparently caked in mud and that’s much easier to wash out (at least superficially) while it’s still wet.

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      1. Lions and Bears*

        Yeah, I live in a very rainy place where tons of people bike to work, and this ( = rinsing sports trousers in the sink) seems pretty normal to me.

        And, idk, maybe it’s impossible to not track at least some mud in, I and everyone else I know who walks/cycles for some of their commute often arrive very wet/muddy? We wipe our feet, we aren’t animals, but sometimes there’s only so much you can do.

        But the shivering and space heater thing is definitely no bueno.

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    6. becca*

      Presumably, he needs to run home at the end of the day, so my guess is that he’s rinsing out his clothes and hanging them up in his office (or something) so that he’s not putting on stiff, gross clothes at the end of the day to get home in.

      I’m so confused by the shivering, though. I used to ride my bike to work, and sometimes I ran to work when I was training for a half marathon, and I always had a change of clothes (and had a stash of extra layers at work for the days when it was, y’know, cold). I know that some people run cold or have medical conditions that make it really hard for them to get warm or keep warm in a cool environment, but assuming that isn’t a factor here, he’s just….shivering? And doing nothing about it? That sounds so uncomfortable. Why, if nothing else, is he not trying to make himself comfortable through the day?

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      1. becca*

        Wow, in the four minutes it took me to type this comment, the post got five other comments answering the question that didn’t show until my comment posted and the page refreshed. Apologies for the repetition!

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      2. MrMassTransit*

        The shivering also confuses me. I run a lot in cold weather and used to bike to work in very cold temps when I lived in the north. Even on very cold nights I was warm when I finished my commute. When you exercise in cold weather you dress for the conditions and your body generates a lot of heat from the exercise. If the run is what’s making him cold, there’s simple solutions like layering up. Regardless, there’s other good options as well – I have a heated vest for the winter and it works wonderfully when I’m sitting around in a cold environment.

        I am glad Alison pushed back on the gym membership. Getting exercise during a commute is great and shouldn’t be frowned upon. The idea that we need to drive to the gym (that we need to pay for) to run is ridiculous. If that’s what someone prefers, no problem – but that shouldn’t be a requirement. Where I live (major US city) large employers are required to provide showers and bike parking for employees to encourage bike commuting, and surely some decide to run to work.

        There’s plenty of solutions that address the problems raised without telling this guy he can’t run to and from work.

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        1. Dust Bunny*

          Yeah, where is this, Siberia? I walked a mile from the train stop this morning. It was 45 degrees/7 degrees and very damp (so it felt colder than it was) and I was slightly overheated in a dress, heavy sweater, and windbreaker. If I had been running I would have been roasting.

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        2. Susannah*

          I agree on not pressuring someone to buy a gym membership – but I think the idea was not that he drive to the gym and run there, but to use the gym to shower and today up his clothes.

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          1. Raktajino*

            Agreed on this read. If the membership is expensive for just the gym amenities, I imagine it would be even less palatable to pay that for just the use of the locker.

            Re the shivering, the sweat and cooldown combined with the average cold office temps might mean he goes from “hot and sweaty” to “somewhat damp and clammy” pretty quickly. My internal thermostat is not the greatest and I run cold by default. When exercising in cold weather I will shed layers and then not notice my core temp is dropping until I’m cold-cold. Thankfully, that’s easily fixed by putting on more layers.

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        3. Brett*

          When I ran in the winter in the 30s, I would feel warm enough while running but I was not actually warm. Like painful to take a room temp shower afterward. It would take several hours to recover my core temp fully. I think Leonard needs a quality base layer and maybe to wear a coat in the mornings after he arrives.

          I know many offices aren’t set up for it, but it’s always frustrating how compromised the ability to walk, cycle, or run the office is. We all talk about healthy habits, work life balance, etc. But then you need to do something as simple as change clothes and there’s not much option. Even having a few extra hooks in the accessible bathroom stall and a few small lockers somewhere in the office could help a lot with this. Leonard also many need to just invest in some extra sets of clothes so he has enough to not need to wash them except at home.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            But if you’re just walking or cycling places you’re going anywhere, they can’t *sell you* a gym membership!

            Plus, y’all non-car commuters always get shirty about things like “sharing the road” and “not getting run over in intersections”.

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          2. AnotherOne*

            something like additional base layer seems like a good idea but not something that is probably an appropriate suggestion from a coworker. though maybe a conversation would cause Leonard to look into different possibilities.

            i live in NYC and my office recently moved. one of the things the head of my department- who likes to bike from one of the other boroughs to our office in Manhattan sometimes- really wanted was showers in our new space.

            we do technically have them. they don’t have curtains. i don’t think anyone is going to use them, but they are doing a bunch of work on our space so maybe in a couple of years we’ll have nice showers for our post bike/run/subway commutes.

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          3. Snoozing not schmoozing*

            Ugh, please don’t turn accessible stalls into laundry facilities. Many of them are just marginally larger than regular stalls, and some people are not comfortable doing bodily functions with another person’s clothes hanging an inch from their face – or wherever.

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            2. side eye*

              I think the hooks were suggested just to make it easier to change. It’s not really practical to throw clean clothes on the floor of a public bathroom, and there usually isn’t a table/chair/etc. in any of the stalls.

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          4. londonedit*

            Yeah, I’m a runner and over the last week we’ve had sub-zero temperatures here in the UK, so I’ve been doing a lot of running in -4 or -5 or similar! I wear leggings, a base layer, a t-shirt and a hat, and I feel warm while I’m running, but when I get home I realise that while my core is warm, my arms and legs are actually freezing. And then that core warmth disappears, because I’m not running anymore, and then even after a shower or a warm bath it can take me ages to fully warm up. If I’d run to the office I can definitely imagine myself feeling really cold – but I’d have made sure I had enough layers to change into.

            In fact, all of this is precisely why I don’t run to/from work – the sheer logistics of it all. At this time of year I simply don’t think I could carry the dry layers I’d need to change into, and we don’t have full shower/changing facilities where I work, so it’d be impossible to dry my hair properly, for example, unless I kept a hairdryer in the office (and here in the UK we don’t have power outlets in our bathrooms, so I’d have to just dry my hair in the middle of the office). It sounds like if Leonard wants to run in, he’s going to have to think more carefully about how he manages the whole thing.

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            1. Thegreatprevaricator*

              I’m impressed/ alarmed you’ve run – I have been on the treadmill because our paths were treacherous the whole week. I did see runners out but was too scared of falls and breaks personally. I do occasionally run into work and it’s made possible by having a shower at work, and a locker. I leave a spare pair of shoes and toiletries in the locker along with a coat hung up on our coat rack as my office coat. I use a travel/ microfibre towel and carry a cloth bag to put my kit in. I catch the bus home. My work culture is fine with me having wet hair which is good as I airdry it anyway. I don’t do it when it requires me carrying more layers to change into than I can accommodate, and I didn’t do it when I worked in places without a shower.

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        4. Stipes*

          Yeah, I’m baffled. I’m surprised he doesn’t feel too warm after being indoors for a couple minutes! Even — or especially — if I’m cold while I’m exercising outdoors, that usually just makes normal indoor temperature feel all the more oppressive, between my body’s attempts to acclimate to the cold and all its exercise-generated heat.

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          1. lanfy*

            I’m the opposite. After exercising outdoors, I feel warm because my core is warm; but my skin is cold, and the moment I stop exercising and stop generating core heat, that skin-cold penetrates all the way through.
            Sure, the room outside my skin may be warm, but that warmth takes a very, very long time to warm me up. It once took me three hours to stop shivering after the end of a day’s hiking; and that included half an hour’s driving with the car heater set to max.

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        5. Baunilha*

          Yes, my husband sometimes cycles to work and he does a have a gym membership — so it’s not for the exercise, but because he enjoys riding a bike and it’s a nice, healthier way to commute. (And cheaper)

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        6. HB*

          Ditto on the shivering, though I’m extremely doubtful that he’s not really dressing appropriately for his run unless for some weird reason he *prefers* to be cold. Instead I think it’s much more likely that he’s warm *while* he’s running, and the shivering at work is because he has *stopped* running and his body is just colder than most people’s. Now, maybe he’s not completely changing into dry clothes, and so the dampness is a contributing factor, so I’d be curious if he never shivers in afternoon meetings.

          And as a random aside: my office has glass walls/doors as well and I think it’s a serious design flaw. They might look nice, but you’ve completely eliminate the ability to have privacy which is at least part of the reason for having offices to begin with.

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      3. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

        As to the shivering – I have this issue- one to two hours after I workout I get insanely cold. It used to be so bad that I would put on long-johns and warm outerwear, and climb under a thick blanket with a heating pad for an hour or two in Texas while the rest of my family had t-shirts and shorts on.

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        1. Kat*

          Same here. I get chilly after running even in warm weather, so the shivering doesn’t surprise me at all, especially if it’s a cool climate. Sweat on your skin and open pores will do that to you.

          It’s really odd that he doesn’t keep a sweater or thermal at work, though.

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          1. 1-800-BrownCow*

            I’m someone else who will shiver after a workout. I once did a 15km hike in the summer and got caught in a rain storm and was drenched. While it was quite warm outside (around 90F), sitting in my vehicle out of the sun and then later at a restaurant on the way home, I could not stop shivering. I even changed out of my wet clothes but my body would not stop shivering. It’s like my body doesn’t know when to stop “cooling down” after heavy exercise.

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          2. goddessoftransitory*

            One reason I’m never going to work out *at* work is I tend to massively overheat, then over cool, then get a splitting, hourslong headache from the temperature swing. Working out at home means I can have a warm shower and cool down much more gradually.

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        3. fidget spinner*

          This happens to me, too, although it’s usually only after a particularly intense workout. But I’ll be super hot finishing the run, and then I’ll freeze about an hour later.

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      1. Cabbagepants*

        I used to bike to work and here is my most reasonable possible explanation.

        1) he wears a breathable rainshell and it gets very muddy. he wants to rinse it before drying it out and wearing it again.

        2) his underwear is wet with sweat.

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        2. Susannah*

          I used to run to work (where we had a shower). I … brought clean underwear and clothes (in my backpack, or sometimes I would keep work clothes at work). So not washing out of underwear at work. I put my sweaty things in a plastic bag, took them home an washed them there.

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    8. Marieke*

      living in a country where everyone cycles to work this reads as incredibly weird. if it rainas people get wet. Having a building that can’t deal with that seema absurd.

      Reply ↓
      1. Berin*

        The employee dropped wet underwear next to a colleague and is doing his laundry in the bathroom sink. This really isn’t about the building not being set up to accommodate the subset of people who bike or run to work.

        Reply ↓
        1. Raktajino*

          If it had a shower and changing space, then he wouldn’t be trying to juggle all that in the bathroom. Yes, it doesn’t prevent him from doing otherwise, but having a labeled designated space nudges behavior towards that space.

          The dropped underwear was a one-time occurrence and he immediately apologized. The other irritants sound like he is on the oblivious end. The mud, hanging clothes to dry and running the space heater more often than other people do are things that he could have seen other people do in a much more limited, occasional way and just assumed he could go All In. The shivering sounds like he doesn’t realize the impact his discomfort has on other people.

          Someone with good intentions executed poorly would change their behavior if it’s easier and more obvious to do the better execution. (see: car parking. People don’t double park if there’s ample parking.)

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      2. Oregon Girl*

        Well, if you don’t live in a place where everyone cycles to work then buildings are not set up for that. This seems absurd you don’t understand not every where is like your home. This blog is a good example that things can be done differently in different places.

        Reply ↓
        1. Jellyfish Catcher*

          I’ve lived in outdoorsy places, biked to college classes and worked in a number of offices.
          I totally doubt that this behavior would be ok, ion any halfway well run office.

          Tramping water and mud into office areas, doing laundry in the restrooms and bringing loose wet underwear (!?) into the office to dry is not normal.
          The guy at least can carry extra dry clothing, and a towel to remove mud before entering.
          I’m surprised that this hasn’t been discussed by his manager by this time

          The guy also has a responsibility to himself as well as others, to arrive to work in condition that is safe for him (no hypothermia) and doesn’t limit his office work abilities. If he was my worker, I’d be concerned about that as well.

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        2. londonedit*

          Yeah, I live and work in London and plenty of people cycle here (though not as many as in, say, the Netherlands). Facilities here really depend on the type of office building – if you work in a modern, purpose-built office block then yep there will be plenty of bike storage, showers, proper changing rooms, lockers, maybe even an on-site gym, etc etc. But I happen to work in a Grade I listed historic building, so we have precisely one shower in one of the toilets, and the only place to change is in that toilet cubicle. We don’t have lockers, we don’t have a proper changing room, we don’t have anywhere to, say, dry your hair even if you do have a shower, and we don’t have anywhere to store bikes. In general, people who work here and who want to cycle/run in will have a gym membership nearby, and they’ll shower there.

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      3. Guacamole Bob*

        I live in an urban area where most new or newly-remodeled offices have at least minimal locker room/shower type facilities (and in some places may even be required to in order to encourage multimodal transportation), but many older ones don’t.

        I imagine the building can handle someone coming in with ordinary wet shoes and a dripping umbrella from a rainy day. That’s different from someone coming in splattered in mud (and how is he getting so muddy, anyway?), leaving muddy footprints, and having the mud smear over the bathroom floor as they change their pants.

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        1. KateM*

          1) When you run in wet weather, your shoes pull up splatters. Something like the back window of your car ends up muddy when you drive on wet streets even if it is not raining anymore.
          2) He also may need to step into mud because there is no other option.
          3) Passing cars may also shower him with mud.

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        2. Daisy-dog*

          My office has a shower room. It is near the center of the office (no windows), so it would require someone to walk through multiple carpeted areas to access.

          Reply ↓
      4. Productivity Pigeon*

        I also live in a country where many bike in any weather. They almost exclusively shower and change clothes when they get to work.

        They don’t drip mud and water everywhere.

        Reply ↓
        1. handfulofbees*

          Honestly this is so interesting to me and I’d love to hear more about the logistics. Are people leaving extra early for that shower? Are they paid for the time they spend at the workplace cleaning up? What are workplace shower facilities like? What happens to the dirty clothing during the day? Do people keep shower caddies at work? Do people take another shower when they get home?

          Like I love the idea of walking or biking to a nearby workplace, but I’m also a fairly sweaty person and can’t imagine how challenging that would be to handle.

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          1. jess*

            No, you don’t get paid for the time you spend getting dressed and cleaned at the office. Several places I’ve worked had locker rooms and showers available but that doesn’t count as work time.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              Yeah, it’s just considered part of your commute; you don’t get paid for your commute.

              Your commute may overall still be shorter, if you live in a high-density area or there’s a parking crunch. If you worked at the college near where I grew up, you could either drive to work, park in one of the designated parking lots, and take a shuttle to your building; or you could run/bicycle directly to your building and take a shower/change in the building’s locker room.

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              1. goddessoftransitory*

                Assuming the LW’s work setup is like this, it sounds like Leonard is going to have to factor a LOT more time into his morning run/commute–enough to change, pack up his workout clothes, and get warm enough not to be visibly shaking in meetings. Of course this may necessitate him getting up at four in the morning, or not being able to enter the building early enough to do so–one example among many why working out at work is often a practical impossibility.

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                1. New Jack Karyn*

                  Four in the morning? Nah. Even with an 8 am start time, he can get up at 6, leave the house at 6:30, run for an hour, and have half an hour to shower and dress.

                  All that is variable for his particular circumstances, of course.

          2. Trotwood*

            My work has a full locker room set-up just like you’d have at a gym, so the answers are very similar to whatever you’d do at the gym. Most of the people I know who bike/run to work are salaried but I wouldn’t imagine shower time is really considered part of your paid work time. It’s kind of an extension of the commute.

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          3. Arrietty*

            I’m in the UK where cycling to work is more common than in the USA but less than in, say, the Netherlands, and my office building has a bicycle store and showers. I think there might be lockers too.

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          4. Productivity Pigeon*

            I’m also really sweaty (as in i have diagnosed hyperhidrosis) so I actually can’t bike to work, I after-sweat for one or two hours afterwards.

            But generally, most people who run or bike to work will be wearing workout clothes and then simply showering at the workplace. It means they have to get to work before their start time but that doesn’t seem to bother them. :)

            The showers are usually ordinary locker rooms. Sometimes you can actually get a locker to keep your towel and soap in, otherwise they’ll just have a little bag in their office or cloakroom.

            Most people would keep their dirty clothing in a plastic bag or in the aforementioned lockers.

            I guess many people shower at home too, if they’ve biked to work. Honestly couldn’t tell you for sure, I’ve never asked anyone.

            It’s really not that complicated. :)

            They’re not paid for it. Why would they be?

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      5. Washi*

        I bike to work and manage not to do any of these things described. I may get a bit wet but I don’t need to actively wash my outer layers, they just dry while hanging up in the office. It sounds like he’s getting absurdly dirty on his commute. Is he doing a Tough Mudder on the way?

        I’m particularly confused about the shivering – if anything I arrive kinda hot! Why is he not wearing more layers or putting on a sweater in the office?

        Anyway, I agree with Alison’s advice. If he wants to run to work he needs to figure out a way to not create a mess all over the office when he comes in.

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      6. Myrin*

        I don’t quite get what you mean by “a building that can’t deal”. I’d assume the building can deal with it just fine – OP doesn’t mention any damage or difficulties related to its structure when faced with Leonard, after all; it’s the people working in the building who are having a problem with this whole (literal) mess.

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        1. ferrina*

          The building has a facility for helping clean people and housing sweaty clothes. It’s the gym that OP mentions. It does come at a cost.
          But Leonard needs to either pay the associated cost to get the resources he needs, or figure out what he needs to do in his commute to not have this happen.

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      8. StressedButOkay*

        Yeeeaaaah but most of those people who are wet/damp aren’t also dropping wet underwear next to colleagues, washing said underwear in a communal sink…

        He needs to bring or keep a change of clothes with him. And accept that his wet, muddy clothes are going to need to stay damp until he’s home. A washing machine will get that out! A washing machine got the mud off my friends clothes after a tough mudder.

        Reply ↓
        1. anonymous anteater*

          It read to me like the dropped underwear is a red herring. It happened one time, presumably when he changed into dry clothes, and was carrying the bundle of commuting clothes in his hands, then accidentally dropped a piece at the worst possible moment? Could easily be prevented using a bag instead.

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          1. MrsThePlague*

            I don’t think anyone is saying that the underwear-dropping is a regular occurrence – I think they’re bringing it up as a way of saying that his post-run, at-work grooming habits are so sloppy that it’s created the conditions under which he *could* drop wet underwear in front of a coworker (which is not something that anyone else, in normal work conditions, is doing). It’s indicative of a broader problem, rather than being the problem itself.

            Reply ↓
      9. Fluffy Fish*

        This is a US based site and the vast majority of letter writers are writing from that perspective.

        It’s going to be locality (and industry) specific but generally speaking in the US office buildings are designed for working and do not typically have locker rooms. Teh ones that do tend to have on site gyms or are in industries where people get dirty on the job and need to change.

        There is a huge difference in coming in a little damp from your commute and being absolutely soaking wet and muddy. Buildings are designed to handle the former, not the latter.

        All that said the issue at hand is the employee not dressing in a way to avoid these issues. They aren’t inherent “runner” issues – they are a dude that apparently doesn’t understand the concept of change of clothes – multiple if need be. Nor apparently how to wipe his feet.

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        1. Stipes*

          “in the US office buildings are designed for working” misses the mark a bit. Locker rooms, when office buildings have them, are in the same category as a parking garage, something to facilitate people coming and going. We typically have parking garages in the US but not locker rooms, not because one is important for working and one isn’t, but because driving is the only mode of transportation we take into account.

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          1. Fluffy Fish*

            By working I meant that is the building main design function. The design of most office buildings are just that – primarily offices. They don’t often take into considerations of other nice to haves such as cafeterias or locker rooms, just offices.

            I don’t consider parking facilities as part of the office building design. It’s an exterior amenity. And one that I wouldn’t say is typical in any sense. Many many many in urban areas have no dedicated parking at all. They absolutely take into consideration other modes of transportation than driving because they in fact rely on people not needing parking at all.

            Locker rooms (and I mean those with showers etc not a storage room) are entirely different. Again they are found either in buildings that do have gym amenities or they are found in industries where one would typically change in and out of work uniforms.

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      10. fhqwhgads*

        It has showers and changing spaces, in the paid-membership-only onsite gym. It’s not the building’s fault. It’s that access to those things is expensive in this particular building.

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    9. Goldenrod*

      This is what I was thinking! Just bring a change of clothes, Leonard.

      The wet clothes are likely why he is shivering, because biking to work should make you warmer, not colder. Maybe he should keep a hair dryer in his desk. That, and warm socks, pants, etc. should solve the problem. Although if I were him, I would just get the gym membership!

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      1. Jellyfish Catcher*

        I came back here to comment on the shivering. I spent decades doing winter snow camping, and winter hiking.
        Shivering is a clear sign of hypothermia – which also means that the person is possibly now at risk to not be able to make good decisions for themselves. I’ve seen people go from ”fine” to irrational quickly.
        I assume that he’s in the office for some time, even 15 minutes before the meetings: – but is still shivering.
        I’d talk to him about that, and pull some info off the web for him. so hopefully he will wear more or better clothing.

        Reply ↓
        1. Jellyfish Catcher*

          PSS: No cotton clothing ever, if out in winter. It collects sweat, absorbs moisture and rain and makes you colder.
          In hiking culture, it’s referred to as “death cloth.” Jeans are somehow often not thought of as cotton; they are notorious for causing hypothermia.

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    10. Momma Bear*

      Sounds to me like even if he’s not putting them back on he should just bring a wet bag and stuff everything in there and take it home to launder after he’s changed into clean clothes. Whether or not he uses the gym, he can still change and stop rinsing his undergarments in the work bathroom (and then carrying them across the office).

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      1. MissMuffett*

        YES! Good lord. You don’t run in your office clothes – you need to like, have a backpack or something to carry them in during your run – and you come in, peel off the exercise clothes in the bathroom, stash it all in a wet bag, and put on your work clothes, down to the underwear if needed, which are dry. Laundering clothes at all (beyond a rinse of a spill on a shirt) should not be done in the office sinks.
        It’s possible this guy’s office isn’t conducive to this kind of commute. It is what it is. He may need to do his run earlier in the morning so he can shower at home and then leave to work in his day-clothes. We can’t always have the perfect set-up to exercise and work. If your office building doesn’t offer a decent setup, you have to just figure something else out.

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        1. goddessoftransitory*

          This x1! Yes, it’s a drag to have to find separate workout time, or build more time into your morning run/commute, but Leonard is an adult. This is stuff he should be able to process and handle with some Googling for suggestions, or he needs to find another way of exercising.

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      2. Dust Bunny*

        Good lord, this! If he has to run home in wet clothes . . . well, they were gonna get wet, anyway. Outside of a few very specific kinds of emergencies you should not be washing underwear in the office bathroom sink.

        My office is not set up for this degree of domesticity because it’s not a thing that’s done where I live/at my workplace (in our case, it’s hot and humid and if you ran to work you would not be presentable once you got there) and attempting to make it happen wouldn’t really be appropriate to this particular setting, no matter how much I wanted it to be so.

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    11. samwise*

      Basic adulting! Bring a gym bag, or even a plastic garbage bag for the wet gross clothes and take them home. Absolutely no laundry in the bathroom sink… He needs to carry a towel in a waterproof pack when he runs so that the first thing he does on arriving is drying off his feet/shoes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Seal*

        This! And it’s true regardless of your mode of transportation to and from work. I’ve lived and worked in the Upper Midwest most my life, which means commuting in snow and cold for a good part of the year. Dealing with things like snowy/muddy boots or wet socks and mittens is a fact of life in the winter, as is tracking snow and mud into the building. But there’s a huge difference between taking off your boots or leaving your gloves out to dry in your office and washing your pants in the sink everyday. A few of my colleagues bike to work regularly, even in the dead of winter or in wet, sloppy snow. But they dress for the weather and plan ahead; if they have to change clothes or clean up a bit when they arrive it’s done discreetly. Adulting 101.

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    12. Annony*

      Regardless of why, I think it should probably be explicitly stated that he cannot wash his clothes in the sink. Otherwise he will just try to do it with less splashing.

      Reply ↓
    13. Emily Byrd Starr*

      Also, what is he wearing when washing his pants and underwear? Is he naked from the waist down????? What a weird letter.

      Reply ↓
  2. Spicy Tuna*

    Way back when my brother and I were small, my parents had one car. My mom used the car because she had a longer commute and my dad rode his bike to work (unless it was terrible weather, in which case my mom would drive him). My dad’s office had an on-site gym, so he was able to shower and change without offending anyone; however, he would roll his suit up and stick it in a backpack, which resulted in him looking rumpled all day. His boss finally spoke to him about looking “more professional” at work. He eventually transferred to another location that was not bikeable, so the problem solved itself.

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    2. Bunch Harmon*

      I had a teacher in high school who ran to school and showered in the locker room. Every Monday, his wife would stop by the school on her way to work in the car, and leave 5 nicely pressed outfits for him to change into for the week. Maybe something similar would have worked for your dad?

      Reply ↓
      1. RCB*

        This is exactly what I was going to suggest, with planning ahead you could bring your clothes for the week in ahead of time and then they are waiting there for you and you don’t have to bike in with them every day.

        Reply ↓
        1. 40 Years in the Hole*

          I did something similar at a former worksite (equipped with shower and lockers, thankfully, else I would’ve just bussed). Brought my pressed/laundered uniforms in on Sunday, then biked from home during nice weather, or skated along the canal to a main bus connection, bussed remainder of the way, and showered/changed at work. And I get the shivering part; the 20-30 min bus ride in winter, post-skate, had me chattering with cold by the time I got to work. Basically freeze-thaw.
          Unlike a colleague who biked in and changed straight into uniform- not even a “field wash” from the sink. Then changed in our only conference room…and hung the same shirt(s) in his cube all week. :=<

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    3. jess*

      Yeah I used to take the bus to work on Mondays, leave a week’s worth of clothes and lunches, and run to work all the other days.

      Reply ↓
    4. MigraineMonth*

      My mom was a SAHM, but my parents still thought the parent with two small children needed the vehicle more, so my dad cycled to work most days for 40 years. He was a college professor, so he didn’t have to wear suits; so far as I know, the only issue he ever had with it is that some of his early teaching evaluations had “great legs” on them before he switched to wearing long pants during the summer.

      When he retired, the department dedicated a new bike repair station to him.

      Reply ↓
      1. LJ*

        College professor is exactly the kind of job where one can pull this off easily. It goes with the slightly-rumpled absent-minded professor vibe.

        Reply ↓
      3. Feral Humanist*

        I will never forget sitting through a graduate seminar with an esteemed faculty member who was wearing a suit from the waist up and bike shorts from the waist down.

        Reply ↓
  3. Turtlewings*

    Admittedly I consider exercise to be evidence that the devil exists, but I can’t imagine why he’d WANT to run to work when it leaves him wet and shivering the rest of the day. Please, dude, love yourself!

    Reply ↓
    1. Nomic*

      It may be a cost issue. It can be very hard to love yourself when you have very little extra cash at the end of the day.

      Reply ↓
      1. Feral Humanist*

        Nothing in the letter indicates this.

        I love the runners in my life but they are pretty stubborn about doing it even when it’s objectively not a good idea. I’ve seen people wreck their bodies because they refused to stop running. So while it could be about cost, I suspect that it is about the running and possibly the endorphin high, which makes the rest of it seem worth the hassle (to him).

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        1. londonedit*

          I mean, yes, some runners can be stubborn about doing it even when it’s not objectively a good idea. But also, when you’re training for, say, a marathon, then you simply have to fit your training runs in as best you can. And with work and life in general, that can be difficult. Of course, of course, no one’s forcing anyone to run a marathon. I know. But if it’s something you’ve committed to doing, then you have to do the training, and often that means people are doing things like running to or from work, or getting up at stupid o’clock, or running at 10pm, because they need to get the session done and that’s the only thing that works. You also can’t just not bother because it’s raining or it’s cold – you just have to adjust your clothing and leave extra time (which is what it sounds like Leonard isn’t doing).

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    2. Daisy-dog*

      Get a fleece jacket! Or a fleece vest – the uniform of finance bros everywhere. I do think those actually look really cozy.

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    3. Ann Perkins*

      Some people love running best when it’s cold out! I am NOT one of those people but my husband is a runner and he refers to 40 degree weather as perfect running weather.

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      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        Younger in life and I was a distance runner, and I, too, loved the cooler weather at the end of the year. I couldn’t overheat at 40F.

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      2. Strive to Excel*

        Cold? Sure. Cold and soaking rain? Can be nice, if there’s a hot shower waiting on the other end. Cold and soaking rain before 8 hours of cubicle? Absolutely the heck not.

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    4. Pay no attention...*

      It could be that he lives in an area that rains pretty much all year, for example Seattle may not get the highest rainfall in the country, but it’s often misty/drizzly about 200 days a year. If he’s committed to running as his exercise and/or mode of transportation to work, he may not really have a choice to run only in good weather.

      That said… but why is he wet??? Waterproof clothing exists my dude.

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        If he lives in Seattle he should know that! (Not saying he does, of course.)

        I can with ease conjure up multiple reasons why Leonard is getting his exercise in this way–it’s the most affordable option, he and his spouse have three kids and this is the only time he has, and so on–but unfortunately the trade off is spending some time working out how his workout isn’t becoming the office’s problem to fix.

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    5. Armchair Analyst*

      Right?! He could change into running clothes at work and run home and be cold and wet for his family or roommates!

      Reply ↓
  4. Berin*

    I actually think the shivering matters – it’s making his colleagues so uncomfortable that they’re asking to change the format of meetings! I also can’t imagine that anyone wants to sit in a chair after someone who is wet enough that it’s causing them to shiver indoors.

    All in all, Leonard seems to be treating the office like it’s an extension of his home (he is removing his pants and washing them in the bathroom sink!), and just framing it as, “hey, don’t leave a mess in the office” doesn’t really address that full pattern. I do think that OP needs to make it clear that Leonard needs to be dry when at work, while not relying on the space heater to make that happen. Maybe he can bring a clean (and warm!) change of clothes?

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    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I agree. I think being so visibly miserable on a work call that your colleagues ask to reschedule it is an issue.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        I’m trying to think if looking unhappy is something that should be addressed in general. Of course it’s upsetting to be around people who are visibly miserable… but wouldn’t “is allowed to look like they’re miserable” be a very reasonable accommodation for all sorts of health issues?

        As someone with depression who is currently working through both a migraine and menstrual cramps, keeping my face neutral is pretty exhausting; I’m glad I’m WFH today and only need to do so for video calls.

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        1. Trotwood*

          There’s a balance to be struck here…if Leonard gets caught in a surprise rainstorm one day and is looking sad and wet for an hour, that’s one thing. But if he’s doing this all the time, it’s clearly causing a disruption. This is like the letter about the woman who was crying loudly at her desk almost every day. When you’re at work, you’re expected generally to be physically and emotionally well-regulated. We’re not robots and things happen, but if someone is poorly-regulated ALL THE TIME, it’s reasonable to address.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            I see a pretty big difference between in disruption levels between crying loudly and just… being cold and shivering.

            Here’s my bias: I worked at a tech company that liked to set the AC way too high in the summer, and because my body was acclimated to the heat I would get badly chilled and start shivering (despite a fleece jacket and a blanket on my lap). I’d have been *pissed* if it was brought up as a performance issue, particularly since all the women in the office had been begging for the thermostat temp to be raised but management kept blowing us off.

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            1. a clockwork lemon*

              I do not run to work or otherwise often find myself in a situation where I am wet in the office. It’s not uncommon for me to be visibly shivering anyway, because I run cold and one of the big A/C vents for my floor is directly above my team’s assigned seating area, even if I’m wearing a scarf and sweater! Short of resurrecting the heinous bright green muppet blanket I kept at a previous workplace, which definitely would not fly, there’s not much I can do about my body running cold.

              It’s weird to me that other people are making such a production out of this–people are often cold in their offices because that’s the nature of the beast with climate control in large spaces!

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            2. Dahlia*

              I think the difference is Leonard is doing it to himself. If you were in that AC condition and you then wore shorts and a tank top so that everyone could see how miserable and shivering you were, it would be reasonable to have a word with you.

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        2. Yorick*

          Leonard doesn’t look miserable because of a health issue, he looks miserable because he’s at work with wet clothes

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            It sounds like he changes when he gets to work, so I assumed he isn’t wearing wet exercise clothing (which would be easy to address) but is actually chilled. There are so many reasons someone could be cold that really aren’t a manager’s business (can’t afford a car, medical condition, body type and gender, etc), I’m not sure it’s worth addressing as a separate issue.

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            1. But Of Course*

              If he’s not washing sweat off his body with soap, he’s not cold, he’s got a layer of sweat using the heat his body is producing. Doesn’t matter if what he’s wearing is wet or not. If you have dried sweat on your skin, it’s much harder to get warm, and there’s nothing “medical” about it except insofar as that is how the human body works, for everyone, regardless of body type or gender. Sweat dried on your skin chills you. The solution is to wash it off with soap. So it is actually worth addressing as part of the whole problem with Leonard running to work at a facility not set up to allow him to sensibly get cleaned and into officewear.

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            2. constant_craving*

              The only reason I think someone higher up may need to address this is that apparently a lot of the office uses space heaters. Sounds like it’s simply too cold.

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    3. Nah*

      I also worry for his health and the health of his colleagues – if he’s shivering and cold despite running a not-legal-for-the-office space heater (and I assume wearing warm clothes) on the daily, and running through the rain, is he not getting sick? Quite honestly if I was in his coworkers’ shoes I would also be rescheduling meetings with him, especially if I didn’t know about his early morning runs, if only so I didn’t catch what I would assume to be a cold or flu!

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        1. Nah*

          I worded that wrong, I mean as someone that didn’t know about his commute and who is both immunocompromised and cares for my grandparents that also are such, someone I work with constantly shivering and freezing in meetings despite having a space heater and (presumably) access to a sweater would be a flag for me that maybe we would be having this meeting online instead.

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          1. But Of Course*

            Well, it’s already a flag for his coworkers to do that because they don’t want to watch him shiver, so I’m not sure what the immunocompromised aspect brings in that’s new.

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            1. Tired*

              I assume that it looks like he is feverish or on the verge of a feverish illness – which is likely to be contagious therefore very concerning. As someone who still masks when I have to share space with other people at work (the amount of illness around this winter is grim) because of a not very effective immune system I’d definitely be trying to avoid someone who looks ill if I was properly & officially immunocompromised!

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        2. New Jack Karyn*

          No, but being cold and wet for extended periods of time can make it more difficult for one’s immune system to successfully fight off infections.

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    4. Donottry*

      I’m a little concerned that the office is running a bunch of stuff that is not safe to run. If everybody has space heaters and tea kettles and they would riot if they were taken away, I don’t know that that’s good.

      Reply ↓
    5. Kay*

      I’m cold all the time, and if I was told I needed to stop shivering because it was making my co-workers uncomfortable (which if multiple people also have space heaters this leads me to believe he isn’t the only cold one) I would have choice words to say.

      It doesn’t seem like he is actually wet in meetings so I don’t think your point applies. You need to be dry when at work doesn’t work either – so what, you are not allowed to get rained on and go into the office??

      Leonard needs to ensure his undergarments aren’t on the office floor, he isn’t creating a mess in the bathroom and he is ready to work on time. He also needs to find facilities approved methods to keep warm (and apparently so do the rest of his co-workers). These are the things you focus on.

      Reply ↓
  5. BatManDan*

    I’m amazed, in general, the degree to which other people can become so committed to what they want to do (and the sacrifices / abnormal situations they are willing to put themselves into for their passion) that they totally lose sight of what they are expecting other people to accommodate or accept, and tolerance for just how FAR outside of social norms their behavior is. Case in point – this runner, and the biking dad with the rolled-up suit.

    Reply ↓
    1. A Poster Has No Name*

      But the situations aren’t necessarily about what people want to do. The biking dad biked because they only had one car and it made sense for his wife to use the car for her longer commute. Running dude could be in a similar situation and that’s the best commute option for him right now.

      Reply ↓
      1. KateM*

        A couple days ago, we “drove” during rush hour, and the kids kept looking out of window: “we passed these walkers again! oh no, now they are again in front of us!”. And these people weren’t even running… so, yeah, I can see how running could be the best commute option.

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      2. B*

        I guess it’s possible he’s running to work because it’s the only way he can commute, but this is almost certainly a voluntary exercise thing, no?

        Reply ↓
          1. Avis*

            Because he’s running rather than walking, which implies a level of fitness you don’t get unless you run on purpose. I walk a couple of miles to work and could not run it if I tried.

            Reply ↓
        2. constant_craving*

          Honestly, I think most people who run as their exercise of choice would be more knowledgeable about how to manage it. It really could go either way, but it does tip my thinking towards he’s doing this more from a necessity angle. When I bike commuted, for example, I was quite dialed in on how to manage clothing and changing and such.

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          1. Lexi Vipond*

            I’m going the other way because even in a damp climate I would have to really TRY to get that muddy every day – I think being off-piste (whatever the running word for it is) is his idea of fun.

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    2. Project Manager*

      That’s a good point – he probably is completely, unintentionally, aware of how disruptive the behavior is

      Reply ↓
          1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

            No, that *is* what you were responding to. I assume from the condescending tone that you are a biker – no need to be so defensive! It is totally normal to bike to work with your clothes in a bag. BatManDan was clearly not talking about the running or biking, but the effects on others of those people’s behavior after the exercise.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              The original comment from BatManDan, which @colin broccoli responded to, talked about two disruptive people: “Case in point – this runner, and the biking dad with the rolled-up suit.”

              “This runner” washes his clothes in the bathroom sink.

              “The biking dad” is a story elsewhere in this comments section. They did nothing more disruptive than cycling to work with their work clothing in a bag and thus having a slightly rumpled suit. While that was a work issue for him, I don’t think having a rumpled suit is disuptive behavior that is “FAR outside the social norms”.

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            2. Kay*

              I’m also with the cruciferous vegetable here and I’m a bit confused as to why their comment so very much induced the miff. Disclaimer – not affiliated with any of the affected classes.

              Reply ↓
    4. AcadLibrarian*

      I wondered about this too. We had one car when I was growing up. Mom drove Dad to work, then went to work herself. It meant Dad had to be in the office 9-10 hours, but that was the price they paid. Of course, it was rural/suburbia so there was no alternative.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hroethvitnir*

        There’s a lot of really weird speculation and assumptions going on in the comments. Obviously this situation is not working, mostly given he freezing, but it seems pretty unlikely he’s forgotten warm clothing exists.

        1. He *is* running then changing at work.
        2. Just because you can wear rain pants doesn’t mean the clothes underneath don’t get damp. And you don’t run in work clothes.
        3. Rinsing off (possibly rain!) trousers isn’t the full-on laundry some people are invisaging.
        4. He’s getting mud and water about… if it’s pouring, I doubt he’s the only one? Certainly, that’s worth addressing, maybe just with a decent mat or something?
        5. Exercise is not interchangeable, even if the gym was free. Even running on a treadmill is both physically and psychologically different to running outside

        So yeah, the water on the floor, extra space heater usage and to some degree him being visibly incredibly cold are issues, but him running to work/getting wet doing so really. Isn’t. IMO.

        The chance this man feels incredibly awkward and like he’s being judged is high, and, well. Clearly he is.

        I get this is the office workers, must look put together at all times site, but that doesn’t mean I like it (or think it is or should be universal!)

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    5. Grumpus*

      The thing that annoys me most about this story is that he leaves mud and water everywhere for other people to deal with. It’s that self-absorbed thing where people make a horrible mess and then don’t even see it as a problem they have to take responsibility for.

      Reply ↓
    6. RCB*

      This hits the nail on the head, and not even just for this situation, but for A LOT of situations in general! People are so focused on themselves anymore that they don’t tend to focus on the negative impact their behavior has on those around them, and it’s just irritating how much this degradation of society has occurred. The biggest case in point is how many people use their phones in public on speaker without headphones, sure it works for them but it annoys everyone around them, and they are just completely clueless how much everyone wants to pummel them.

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Or the latest trend in my city, walking/biking/driving around blasting your Spotify for all to hear. I don’t think these people are clueless, though–they’re deliberately trying to be annoying to everyone around them.

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    7. MigraineMonth*

      What?? Referring to people who run/walk/cycle to work as an “abnormal situation” that is “FAR outside of social norms” is pretty extreme. Did you know there are people in the US who *do not own cars* and run/walk/cycle everywhere?

      There also isn’t actually any indication in the letter that Leonard is a passionate or committed runner who just doesn’t care about other people. It’s just as likely that he *doesn’t have any other efficient option to get to work* given that he’s running in all weather and seems to be fairly miserable many days. (Depending on location, it might be faster, more dependable and affordable than public transit.)

      By all means, ask Leonard not to track in mud or do laundry in the sink. Don’t try to shame him for how he chooses to–or has to–commute to the office.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lexi Vipond*

        I work in a city where most people walk or cycle or get the bus if they work anywhere near the centre, and believe me, Leonard would be ‘FAR outside of social norms’ here too.

        Reply ↓
        1. colin broccoli*

          yes, but MM is responding to the comment that even biking to work is FAR outside social norms, which is honestly a bizzare take that i think is outside of most people’s understanding of reality. I see a lot of people jogging to work where i live.

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          1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

            That’s super regional. Downtown metro area, tons of bike commuters, or people who take transit and walk the last half mile. Freeway dependent exurbs without sidewalks? Anyone who doesn’t drive their own personal vehicle will stand out.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              I grew up in a rural area where most families had a vehicle, but that didn’t mean every driver had their own. There wasn’t much public transit, so if you didn’t own a car or didn’t have access to the family car, you walked/ran/cycled (or bummed a ride from a coworker).

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          2. Lexi Vipond*

            I can read too, and the initial comment says ‘this runner’ and ‘the biking dad’, not ‘all runners’ or ‘all cyclists’.

            The cycling dad wasn’t behaving as oddly, but he seems to have a bit of the same mindset going on – BECAUSE I cycle, I should be exempt from the social norm of not looking like I slept in my clothes.

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    8. NothingIsLittle*

      I mean, a lot of norms, office and otherwise, are unspoken. I’m neurodivergent and have had to have kindly coworkers educate me on a number of things (looking at you napping at my desk when I’m on break) that are unprofessional. That’s obviously less intrusive than dripping on everything, and I don’t mean to suggest that Leonard is necessarily on the spectrum, but there are all sorts of reasons someone might be oblivious to their impact or that their actions are outside of social norms.

      That doesn’t change the advice to be as clear with him as possible about what the problem is or what the solutions are, but I hope the OP can have the conversation as if Leonard is oblivious instead of inconsiderate.

      Reply ↓
    9. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

      As a counterpoint: I’m amazed by how committed people are to the norms of driving to the office, to the point that offices fail to accommodate any other mode of transport. I live in a city dedicated to being bikeable, and work at a uni that always brags about how green it is, and yet there is zero actual support of alternate commuting types in my office. Five floors away from me there are ~3 empty lockers which I’m allowed to quietly put a lock on (but it’s technically not allowed); there are showers in buildings 10 min walk away; there is nowhere I can hang up my wet rain jacket to let it dry before I go home except around the area I usually hot desk in. I live in a temperate rainforest – seriously, what am I supposed to do?

      The refusal to update our priors to support alternate transport (both infrastructure and attitudes about hanging wet jackets and pants (not underwear)) is why we’re not meaningfully doing anything about climate change. If we actually want our world to be liveable in 30 years, we need to start being more accepting of (very minor!) stuff life this.

      (I exclude wet underwear and washing clothes in sinks – but I’ve been commuting by bike/run/etc) for decades and I’m comfortable saying that’s out of the norm)

      Reply ↓
    10. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Yeah, they get tunnel vision. I was just reading a post on reddit from someone so obsessed with a local event that they were trying to “defend their time off” at work basically to go on a scavenger hunt. And thinking, “My dude, you are going to be fired over this! Priorities!”

      Reply ↓
    11. bamcheeks*

      Counterpoint: I can’t imagine living somewhere where running to work is a “sacrifice” or “abnormal”! Sounds dystopian.

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        Yeah, same. I live and work in London and if someone said they were planning to drive to work in central London people would think they were literally insane. You just don’t drive to work here, there’s absolutely no point. You use public transport, or if you’re a cyclist or a runner then you cycle or run in. No big deal.

        Of course, don’t be a dick and leave your soaking wet cycle gear all over the place, but cycling or running to work is in no way ‘abnormal’.

        Reply ↓
  6. Amber Rose*

    Runners are an odd group. No shade, it’s just a trend, like how not all crossfit people talk about nothing but crossfit, but enough do to make it a cliche.

    Anyways, my point is if he’s as into running as it seems, he probably just does not even think of these things as negatives. When you have this conversation, go into it assuming he’ll be surprised. I am reasonably sure that he is not being purposefully inconsiderate. Please though, in addition to telling him to stop making a mess, can you tell him it’s not cool to wash pants in the bathroom sink? Because I am intensely uncomfortable about the idea of going to use the facilities and encountering someone doing laundry.

    Also I don’t know if it’s really appropriate to mention this, but a hot drink is more effective at warming you up than a space heater.

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    1. becca*

      With the caveat that it is obviously not okay to wash your pants in the work sink if that means you’re standing there in your underwear, what is it about the simple act of cleaning a mess off one’s pants in a bathroom that makes you so uncomfortable? Especially if you know why they’re doing it (e.g., this guy runs to work and needs to change clothes, or somebody spilled their lunch on their pants[US])? If someone needs to wash their pants, what are they supposed to do? We can’t all be non-disruptive, normative humans all the time. It would be cool if every deviation from “normal” behavior wasn’t automoatically interpreted as negatively disruptive.

      I am feeling suddenly grateful for the fact that all of my employers of the last decade have had single-stall bathrooms, so I could change from biking gear to working gear without having to worry about encountering anyone at the sink. I just monopolized the bathroom for longer than the average person.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nah*

        But this isn’t a one-time thing, or even a once-every-few-months (or, speaking as someone with terrible luck spilling things on myself regularly, even every other week), this is an apparent daily occurrence that he’s stripping and then doing laundry while coworkers are trying to use the facility around him.

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        1. samwise*

          And making a mess while doing it. If he wants to wash his stuff in the sink, fine, but make sure that he’s not blocking the sinks, and more importantly that he’s DRESSED when he does it, cleans up the sink and floor, and doesn’t drip all the way to his desk (put those wet clothes in a hefty bag for the love of god)

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        2. Nah*

          At some point you need to just take the loss and stuff the dirty clothes in a bag so you can switch into a clean change of clothes and get to work, especially if you know this is going to happen (like, say, you are running to work through the mud and rain). Heck, bring a second pair of running pants for after work if you need to, or wear the muddy ones home after they’ve dried the whole day. Unless it’s an accidental spot-clean from lunch, try and save the washing for when you get home.

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      2. Leenie*

        As you allude to in the bracketed [US] in your comment, if they mean pants like underwear, not pants like trousers, I can understand the discomfort, especially if it’s a regular occurrence. It was the wet underwear that was dropped, which is way yuckier than trousers.

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      3. Endless TBR Pile*

        I think it’s more than that.

        He’s tracking in more mud / water than the average coworker, therefore creating a slip and fall risk. Daily.

        He’s utilizing a shared facility to wash his clothes in the sink, thereby leaving the sink a mess. Daily.

        He’s running his space heater (a risk in and of itself) more than other staff. Daily.

        He’s shivering in meetings and making coworkers uncomfortable. Daily (or as often as they have morning meetings, to the point people have asked for altered accommodations because of him).

        He’s creating safety risks and interrupting the flow of business.

        The dropping of dirty underwear in front of a female coworker is just the final straw. OP is well within their scope to tell him adjustments need to be made, that this behavior can’t continue.

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        1. Armchair Analyst*

          Agreed. It’s excessively outside of office norms, and we have had other letters for much less behavior

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      4. HonorBox*

        If someone spills lasagna on their pants at lunch, I think that’s far different than a daily doing of laundry. One is totally unplanned. The other is something that is planned, and can be planned around.

        People are in various states of undress in the restroom when they’re using them as a restroom, so I don’t think the issue is that Leonard is any sort of undress. The issue is that he’s laundering clothes and making a mess.

        We know what happens in restrooms. It is reasonable for most people to sort of approach shared restrooms in a state of ignorance or suspended reality. When that ignorance is shattered and reality hits because the restroom is messy following someone’s use, that’s where the problem occurs.

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        1. WellRed*

          I don’t think standing at the sink in underwear is all that common in work or public restrooms. If I spill lasagna on my pants, I’m probably going to spot wash while wearing them. Or go home.

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          1. UKDancer*

            Yeah I mean I spill stuff on me from time to time. I go to the toilets and use paper towel to remove the stain. I’ve never taken clothes off to wash them after spilling food. I usually keep a spare top at work in case I need to change but generally if I spill something I either fix it quickly on me or change and take it home.

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          2. Turquoisecow*

            Yeah I’ve spilled stuff on me but I didn’t take it off and wash it in the sink, I just kind of dabbed at it with a towel or something and made the best of it (or changed if that was an option).

            I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the restroom in an office building during business hours is neither the time nor place to do one’s laundry. He needs to bring a second set of clothing to change into at work (which I assume he’s doing and not walking around in the same soaking wet pants all day) and if he’s presumably running home and work clothes aren’t suitable for that, he needs to bring a second set of running clothes to wear home. Then he launders all three sets on his own time, whether that’s at home or the laundromat or at the riverside.

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      5. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        I think if it was just cleaning up in the washroom, the LW probably wouldn’t have written. It’s the combo of that +dropping soggy underwear around + tracking mud + running the space heater + chattering teeth.

        Reply ↓
    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Back when I was a runner, there was one particular guy in my running club who was (still is; we’re FB friends and he posts a lot) *obsessed* with running, doing wackadoo things like running up and down a (small) mountain two or three times in a row, or if it was snowing on a day when he needed to do a long run, he’d literally just run around the block a bazillion times where he knew the roads were clear. I used to tell him that a) he’s crazy, b) that’s a compliment, and c) all runners (including myself) are crazy. I hardly run at all these days, but I’m a hiker and it’s funny how we’re both a group of people who do things others call nuts but we still call members of the other group nuts even though we’re basically two sides of the same coin.

      But I agree that he might not realize that not people are uncomfortable with his quirky runner behaviors and just pointing that out to him might get him to stop the behaviors. I’d definitely give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he’s just oblivious, at least at first. How he reacts to this feedback will give you a better idea as to how willful he’s being or not.

      Also, fwiw, I agree with comments in other threads that a) he really shouldn’t be needing to wash his clothes in the sink, that’s what plastic bags and washing machines are for and b) it’s entirely possible that he’s running the space heater to dry his clothes. Although yeah, maybe he does just run cold or exercising makes him lose a lot of body heat, which is a weird thing that happens to some people.

      Reply ↓
  7. Project Manager*

    If he’s still shivering after coming in, it sounds like he could at least start by coming in earlier so he can clean up after himself fully and give himself time to acclimatize before morning meetings? I also echo the sentiments above about washing pants; he needs to just garbage/wet bag his dirty workout clothes and deal with it at home.

    Reply ↓
    1. TooTiredToThink*

      Yup, was waiting for someone to mention a wet bag. It sounds like he needs to carry a back-pack with 2 outfits – his work outfit, and his evening run gear. It’s extra weight; sure, but that also means extra working out.

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    2. HonorBox*

      Agreed. I do most of my family’s laundry, and while it would be awesome to pretreat and rinse a lot of stuff before it sits in a hamper for awhile (looking at you, teenagers in my house) if the clothes are wet and dirty, throwing them in the wash right when he gets home will likely be fine. If he’s so caked in mud that he feels like he needs to do a full rinse, at the very least, he needs to ensure he’s cleaned up after himself and probably needs a second set of clothes for the return trip, plus is work clothes.

      Reply ↓
  8. Kat*

    I’m just impressed that there are multiple people getting away with space heaters in this workplace. I’m pretty sure my facilities manager would put a hit out on me if I tried even plugging one in. No visual inspection needed—he would instantly sense danger approaching, like a deer in the woods.

    Reply ↓
    2. JFC*

      It’s the same in my office, and I think our landlord would have a fit if they knew about it. One of them even short-circuited last year and caused electrical issues for the whole building. The company I work for would definitely be on the hook for any damages if something really bad were to happen. But, our facilities folks are in another location and the managers on-site are okay looking the other way.

      Reply ↓
      1. Trotwood*

        One of my friends works for a university and someone full-on started a fire in their office because they left a space heater on overnight. At my job, the fire marshal would have you out the door so fast…

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    3. Generic Name*

      I was literally just thinking that I’m sure facilities in my office would be alerted to an increased draw from a particular outlet and would likely inspect the source within an hour or two.

      Reply ↓
    5. samwise*

      Yes, the fire marshall got on us for using space heaters, even ones that turn off when they’re tipped over.

      We all just keep our heaters in our filing cabinets, putting them away at the end of the day. Because apparently when the students are gone for winter break, no one needs heat.

      Reply ↓
    6. Annony*

      I was actually given one at one job. It was 4C at my desk and they decided they would rather give me a space heater than fix the problem.

      Reply ↓
    7. NothingIsLittle*

      I recently changed jobs and when a coworker suggested I might want a space heater my response was, “We’re allowed to have those?!” In a previous job I alone was allowed a space heater because of a non-ideal set-up, but current job it’s fine as long as it has certain safety features.

      Reply ↓
      1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

        This. I inherited my space heater with my cubicle when I changed jobs.

        Another solution – my partner who can’t have a space heater has this heating shawl blanket thing that runs on a battery pack like the ones you can charge your cell phone from. You put the pack in a pocket, plug in the shawl, and it keeps your core nice and toasty.

        Reply ↓
        1. Freya*

          I acquired an electric throw rug for a similar situation, because my legs get cold – the cables unplug so you can wash it (gently!) and it works just fine as a regular throw rug when it’s not plugged in and turned on. And just like a regular electric blanket, it turns itself off after a while, so you can’t leave it turned on over the weekend.

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  9. My Brain is Exploding*

    I wonder if he could negotiate a fee to just use the showers at the gym. (Could include a time limit so they know he isn’t exercising, or a punch card, or whatever.) Might be worthwhile to ask.

    Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        And other people who want to use the facilities might also join in–could be a nice stream of revenue for the gym!

        Reply ↓
    3. Bossy*

      I was thinking this, seems super reasonable to just let someone change there.
      I love to use my PF membership to just stop in at any one and use the rest room lol

      Reply ↓
    6. Zahra*

      I’ve known a few gyms who did the same at various places I worked at. The price was minimal and it guaranteed an access to showers, lockers, a space to change into clean clothes, etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. Agent Diane*

        And this could be a benefit anyone could sign up for, meaning people who are currently put off cycling to work because of how everyone hates Leonard’s mess could also get “locker/shower” memberships. Win/win.

        (I’m in the UK: every office I’ve worked in since 2007 has had a locker/shower area for cyclists)

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    8. Ally McBeal*

      This was my exact thought. If he doesn’t need the workout facilities, just a shower/towel/locker room, I would hope an on-site gym would be accommodating.

      Reply ↓
    9. Formerly in HR*

      We too have this at work. There is an on-site gym, run by a third party, employees and contractors can buy different types of access/ memberships. One of them is for (bike riders) to just use the showers – i.e they’d be able to shower and then change in the locker rooms, but not use any equipment, or attend any classes. The company should ask the gym to provide this type of membership.

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    10. HonorBox*

      Fantastic idea! It isn’t clear if this is a gym that happens to be on-site, run by a different company, or a company-owned gym. But either way, if I’m HR or Leonard’s manager, I think it is worth a conversation to see if he’s able to change there. Maybe it is a smaller cost, but given the issues raised in the letter, I’d be all for the company paying for it just because it alleviates a number of issues.

      Reply ↓
  10. Lorena*

    I am always cold at work – and most others are fine. I managed to purchase from Amazon this year, a heated scarf! It’s awesome and can make a difference. There are also heated vests and other items, they are powered with a small power bank – so rechargeable and it probably does a better job to warm them up, then a space heater!

    Reply ↓
    4. Ally McBeal*

      I have a heating pad that I either prop up against my back (normal levels of cold) or sit on (very cold days). It automatically switches off after 60-90 minutes, so I’ve gotten it approved by every office admin in every building I’ve worked in – and I’ve worked in some old-ass buildings with really strict fire codes.

      Reply ↓
    5. Joielle*

      I have one of those too! It’s awesome. Also a heating pad for my office chair, which is quite effective and less objectionable to building management than a space heater.

      Reply ↓
  11. PivotPivot*

    Could he possibly just have a shower membership in the gym?

    So no exercising but use of the locker room and showers.

    Reply ↓
  12. dz*

    maybe I missed something, but I think the gym suggestion was not so that he could work out at the gym instead of running, but that he could use the gym’s facilities to shower/store his clothes/etc.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Yes, but I do understand that somebody who runs to work every day probably doesn’t want to pay for a gym membership, as they’re already getting lots of exercise for free.

      Reply ↓
  13. Generic Name*

    I feel like this guy is either a masochist/likes the attention of visibly exhibiting “I just ran to work” to his coworkers or has an issue with basic problem solving. But maybe I get unreasonably annoyed at not just inconsiderate people, but the particular subset of inconsiderate person who underdresses and insists on blasting a space heater. I used to work with a man who didn’t wear socks in the winter as well as only wore thin dress shirts who wanted to keep the temperature in our shared office at 80 degrees F when outdoor temps were in the 30s. I also worked with a woman who would never wear sweaters and always wore the thinnest, gauziest fabrics year round. Always complained she was cold and kept her office at 85 degrees. Just insane to me that neither of them opted to put on a sweater.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpus*

      I had a similar colleague! Always freezing cold, but wore sandals/a tank top in winter. She’d then sit in the office wrapped in her scarf complaining she was cold.

      Reply ↓
    2. MigraineMonth*

      Whereas my office always has That Guy who’s wearing shorts and sandals when it’s 10 degrees F and complaining how overheated he is. Dude, we were just in a 70 degree F office building and you were fine, I refuse to believe a leisurely walk in the snow is causing you to overheat.

      Reply ↓
  14. colin broccoli*

    This all makes me so thankful that i’ve been lucky enough to work at places with both showers and washer/dryers.

    Reply ↓
  15. Juicebox Hero*

    He’s probably blasting his space heater to dry out the clothes that he washes out in the sink. I’d tell him he can’t wash his clothes at work anymore – bag up the dirty ones, put on a fresh set of work-appropriate clothes, and bring a fresh set of running gear if needed for going home (because, dude. Do your laundry at home or a laundromat like a grown adult.) It seems like that should both cut down on the mess and the heater use.

    It’s making me wonder what he does in the summer. Does he sit there sweating buckets because he’s still all hot from running?

    Reply ↓
  16. LouiseR*

    It’s very common in Europe for offices to contain showers to facilitate people who run or cycle commute. I find it strange he would have to pay for gym membership to use a shower!
    Perhaps your company could also look into some sustainability initiatives that involve promoting these activities and providing showers for general use as a result of this? a win for everyone and the environment!

    Reply ↓
    1. Lisa*

      I’m in the US and newly-built buildings tend to have showers. Buildings built before the mid-2000s usually don’t. Renovating a space to add showers is generally going to be cost-prohibitive.

      Reply ↓
    2. Ellis Bell*

      I don’t disagree, at all, with the things we need to do for the environment but do you really think any of that is in OP’s remit? I’ve also biked to work to places that have showers, and they aren’t magically going to clean your underpants for you. You need to bag that stuff up.

      Reply ↓
    3. KayZee*

      Yeah, most companies who haven’t done that already are not about to cut into their profit by setting up showers/changing facilities here in the US.

      I work in a college and, several years back, much of our state was without power following a hurricane. The city where I work was not impacted. Human Resources emailed all employees telling them not to use the showers in the gym in the student center; they were for students only. This is primarily a residential college and students were mainly just steps away from their dorm.

      So, yeah, showers at work are not common here.

      Reply ↓
    4. Endless TBR Pile*

      It’s a nice, thought, but this isn’t a company-wide issue. The issue is with one person. It’s not really in the company’s financial interest to install showers or subsidize gym memberships in this case. It’s much easier for them to tell Leonard that he can’t track excessively track mud into the building, he can’t use the bathroom sink as a laundromat, and he can’t run his space heater like a little mini clothes dryer.

      Reply ↓
    5. HonorBox*

      I can’t disagree with the idea itself. But I am thinking about my own workplace. We don’t have it and even if we had the space that could be dedicated to a shower room, the cost to build one wouldn’t be something that could easily be justified. And while Leonard shouldn’t HAVE to pay to use the gym’s showers, I would bet a gym membership that senior management would probably push back right away on a major renovation because there’s a facility on site.

      Reply ↓
    6. Dogwoodblossom*

      Problem is in the US even if your office does have facilities for bike commuters the city infrastructure is often pretty hostile to anybody not in a car. I’m in one of the bike friendliest places in the US and there are very few protected bike lanes, if there are bike lanes at all. There aren’t even always *sidewalks*. I once worked at a place that was a 5-10 minute drive from my home, depending on how you hit the traffic lights, and if I’d tried to bike that very easy distance I would absolutely have been hit by a car on a blind curve with no shoulder.

      Reply ↓
    7. Roulx*

      That is a common sense approach. And since there are showers and lockers right there (the gym), it would likewise be common sense for the company to provide access to them.

      Reply ↓
  17. Llellayena*

    Does he even own a car? Things change if this is his ONLY way of getting to work. If it’s his CHOICE to run to work but he can drive in bad weather then the approach should be that he needs to present more professionally when he arrives at work. This includes keeping muddy/wet clothes out of coworkers’ view (carry the darn things in a bag!) and being warm enough to present yourself professionally (as in not actively shivering). I do occasionally get chilly enough on our conference rooms to need a sweater, but I keep one around for that purpose. Violently shivering is not professional (unless you’re an architect on a site visit in January in a building that hasn’t yet installed windows, then shiver away!). If they don’t own a car and running is their only means of getting to work, it might be better to ask what the company can do to help. Can the company subsidize his gym membership so he’s got somewhere to get ready? It’s need based at that point so it doesn’t need to set a precedence. Or some other procedure or location where he can get ready and warm?

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I don’t think the company should be policing if someone needs a car or not and if they can run to work or not. the problem is that he needs to think of a different way to get himself ready for work.

      Reply ↓
    2. MissMuffett*

      Even if he can only walk, he needs to make accommodations for bad weather. That might look like an alternate set of clothing, either in a backpack or maybe stashed in a drawer at his desk, so he isn’t washing clothes to the degree that he would be removing his underpants. It might be wearing boots or gaiters to protect his slacks. Whatever. He can work around it like a grown person.

      Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      Strong disagree. Car or no, he can have a sweater or hoodie available to warm up. Car or no, he doesn’t need to launder his clothes in the bathroom sink. Car or no, he can leave his muddy shoes at the door and not track dirt all over. Car or no, he can bag up wet clothes and not drip all over the floor. Car or no, he can bring a change of clothes for the run home so he’s not drying the morning clothes all day with a space heater.

      Whether or not he owns a vehicle is immaterial. He’s not being a good and thoughtful coworker. He can not have a car and still not make others deal with his mess and make others uncomfortable.

      Reply ↓
    4. Public Transit Rules*

      Neither my spouse or I have a car, and we get to work in all sorts of wet and wintry weather without it ever being an issue. All of the issues are easy enough to deal with, as others have detailed (bag for wet clothes/bring them home to wash, sweater at work, etc.).

      Reply ↓
    5. MigraineMonth*

      I don’t think we need to police other people being cold or shivering. Like Alison said, people are allowed to look like they’re cold!

      In my case, it was because someone decided to set the office temperature in mid-July according to what a man in a 3-piece suit would find comfortable (despite there being no office dress code) and ignoring all complaints. I wore a scarf. I wore a sweater. Under my jacket. I had a lap blanket. Which I brought to meetings. I was still damn cold. One of the women I worked with got fingerless gloves.

      Reply ↓
    6. londonedit*

      Where I live absolutely no one drives a car to work. If you work in central London it would be madness to drive in. There’s the congestion charge, there’s no parking (or if there is parking then it’s insanely expensive) and we’ve just been named as the most traffic-congested city in Europe (most of that traffic is delivery vehicles/taxis/Ubers etc). Many, many people in London don’t even own cars, because there’s no point – public transport is vastly cheaper and far more efficient than trying to drive anywhere.

      The problem isn’t that he’s running to work – thousands of people run or cycle to work here. It’s a very normal thing to do. The problem is that he doesn’t seem to be dealing with the logistics of a run commute very well. He absolutely shouldn’t be washing his underwear in the sink or leaving wet clothes all over the place, and he needs to make sure he can warm up properly so he isn’t shivering in meetings or relying on a space heater. That’s a Leonard issue, it’s not a run-commute issue.

      Reply ↓
  18. BobCat*

    Isn’t standard transportation an option and he can save his running for a time when it doesn’t interfere with work? How about if he gets a ride to work but only runs home from work? Regardless, the guy does sound a bit clueless about his effect on others.

    Reply ↓
    2. londonedit*

      As someone who’s trained for a marathon in the past, you fit your training sessions in wherever you can. I agree that Leonard needs to manage the logistics of his run-commute better, but you can’t tell someone they can’t run to work if that’s what they want to do. Maybe he’s training for something and running to the office is the only way he can fit in his Tuesday miles.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wolf*

        But if it results in him being wet and cold in the office, does it really fit into his schedule? Or is he trying to cram his training into a time slot that really doesn’t fit?

        Reply ↓
        1. londonedit*

          I agree, he needs to deal with the logistics better. But if he wants/needs to run to work, then the running isn’t the issue, it’s the logistics of it that he needs to sort out. It sounds like he does have time to shower/stash his wet clothes/change etc, he’s just not doing a very good job of it.

          Reply ↓
  19. Showers are nice*

    Surely the organization could negotiate with the onsite gym for reduced pricing for a shower-and-locker-only type of membership.

    Reply ↓
    1. Armchair Analyst*

      Yes I thought of this right away and was surprised it wasn’t mentioned or popular. Clearly the gym would have at least 1 more customer at a discount!

      Reply ↓
  20. Tuesday Tacos*

    Why oh why doesn’t this guy have an extra set of (DRY!) clothes at the office? Seriously this is basic common sense.

    Reply ↓
    1. goddessoftransitory*

      Exactly. It may mean some extra trips to drop off/pick up clothing for the week, but really–this problem is only a problem because Leonard isn’t solving it.

      Reply ↓
  22. Productivity Pigeon*

    I have hyper hydrosis (pathological amounts of sweating) and a face that gets red to a degree I can barely describe whenever I exercise.

    I tried biking to work but the sad truth is that it takes me about an hour to stop sweating and longer than that for my face to look any degree of normal. I simply don’t look professional for quite a long while.
    So I had to scrap the biking.

    Even if I showered at work, I would still sweat afterwards and coming into work 1-2 hours early to ”sweat out” wasn’t logistically possible..

    Is that fair? Nope. But it is what it is.
    I don’t want to drip all over my colleagues or have people ask if I’m alright because my face is so red.

    Reply ↓
    2. Juicebox Hero*

      I don’t have a diagnosis, but I too sweat buckets and get a bright red face for hours following any kind of exertion. When I started an exercise program people kept telling me I should get up early and exercise and just take a shower and be ready for the day. On the occasions when I tried it I was sweaty all morning and red as a beet. It works far better for me to exercise after work, cool down for a while, and shower before bed.

      Reply ↓
      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        I totally feel you!

        I’m the same. It’s just not worth the bother to exercise in the morning. I’d have to get up at 5AM and I don’t want to do that, haha!

        Reply ↓
    3. my cat is prettier than me*

      This happens to me too, but only with running! After a run, even if it’s 15 minutes, it takes 90 minutes to 2 hours to stop sweating. It doesn’t happen with any other physical activity.

      Reply ↓
      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        Running and biking are the worst for me, but even a fast walk will trigger it. It unfortunately doesn’t correspond to fitness level either.

        Reply ↓
      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Same! When I run, I almost immediately look like I’m about to have a heart attack. I would always warn my running companions that this was just my face and that I was totally fine. It’s so weird, isn’t it?

        Reply ↓
      3. bishbah*

        With me, it happens when my pulse gets above a certain threshold, near the top of my exertion range. I flush red to the point I get asked about my “sunburn,” and stay hot and sweaty for about 90 minutes (at which point evaporative cooling finally kicks in and I get cold like our friend Leonard here).

        Now to prevent it, I set my smartwatch to alert me when my heart rate gets too high during workouts. Then I immediately stop or switch to walking until my pulse comes back down. I still sweat from exertion when I run, but it’s no longer that extreme, prolonged messiness.

        Reply ↓
  23. HigherEdEscapee*

    I worked with someone like this, except in his case it was biking to work and coming into the office wearing wildly inappropriately tight bike shorts, sweating absolutely everywhere, and tracking in mud via the bike and his shoes. He’d done in when he had a different office on campus but when we moved to the new office it was shut down quickly as bikes were absolutely not allowed in the building, only in the locked rack downstairs for which he had a key. He was told he had to change in the locker rooms on the first floor before coming upstairs and he was absolutely stunned that he couldn’t just show up and be sweaty all day and, sometimes, attend meetings dressed that way. Eventually the message got through, but it took management really sitting on him for him to get it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Juicebox Hero*

      Blechh, sitting around in damp sweaty clothes all day is just begging for rashes and skin infections, especially in the nether reaches. Not to mention the smell, and the fact that no one wants to be able to count the freckles on a coworker’s butt through their tight shorts.

      Reply ↓
      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Ugh, right? I used to bike a lot and read a lot of articles about “helpful hints” for cyclists and one of the things that stuck out to me was that if you can’t change the rest of your clothes, at least get out of your bike shorts or you will be in for a really uncomfortable time in chairs. Why would anyone do that to themselves deliberately?

        I think that post-exercise I enjoy changing into dry clothes more than I do taking a shower…Obv I shower afterwards asap but sometimes if I’ve been hiking I have to drive awhile before I get to a shower, and just putting on dry clothes – socks! underwear! – is heavenly. And I *always* shower before work.

        Reply ↓
        1. HigherEdEscapee*

          The guy in question would STINK when he did this too. I think it had to be like he was marking his territory or something. He clearly knew what was up. I had no idea he did it until I was in the same office with him and most of the rest of my department. Then he was swiftly told to knock it off. Still, I cannot imagine it was comfortable at all.

          Reply ↓
      2. RVA Cat*

        True about anyone’s clothes, but a “moose knuckle” in bike shorts goes from TMI towards harassment – just like Leonard’s nasty underwear.

        Reply ↓
        1. HigherEdEscapee*

          Yes, exactly! I know we had people complain about that very problem. There are things you just don’t want to see or know about your colleagues.

          Reply ↓
    2. Bossy*

      People are truly strange. Sometime I wonder if it’s because like they’re doing something “athletic / healthy /cool” so they think whatever goes along with that is ok to show, but no that activity is over bro, so can you change for work lol.
      My office is so casual that a couple folks have worn literal workout leggings (with a long sleeve tee or jacket), however if someone showed up in that after a sweat sesh they would definitely be side-eyed!

      Reply ↓
    3. Generic Name*

      I feel like it’s less cluelessness and more entitlement. He WANTS to sit in his sweaty cycling gear (and track mud everywhere), therefore he should be able to.

      Reply ↓
      1. HigherEdEscapee*

        That was absolutely the problem with this guy. He really thought that he should be allowed to walk around in his second skin biking shorts because we didn’t have a dress code that said he couldn’t. He liked being That Guy. Thankfully this was an institution with a lot of women in positions of power who were Not Having It.

        Reply ↓
        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Whenever a person falls back on the “There’s no rule that says dogs CAN’T play basketball” argument, they are much more interested in power plays than logic.

          Reply ↓
    4. Sparkles McFadden*

      We had one of these people too. When she was told she couldn’t walk around in her biking clothes, dripping sweat and grime everywhere, she took to washing herself and all of her biking clothes (including her underwear) in the bathroom sinks. She splashed water everywhere, and didn’t clean up after herself. She didn’t bring a towel so she’d use up a pile of paper towels (dropping most of them on the floor after she used them). Then she dried all of her biking clothes on radiator in a conference room. She was shocked (shocked!) when she was told not to do this.

      Reply ↓
    5. goddessoftransitory*

      It’s the “absolutely stunned” part that always gets me. It’s amazing how people really, truly have these blind spots around specific behaviors and how insanely inappropriate they are out of context. I would bet this guy had a long list of “Oh, my God, how *gauche*” things that other people did, too.

      Reply ↓
  24. bamcheeks*

    I think it’s fair to tell him he MUST find a better way to deal with wet/muddy clothes and getting changed, and if it’s appropriate you could also tell him to consider investing in some better-quality running clothes/jacket/etc that keep him warmer. (Places like TKMaxx or closing down sales at sports shops are great for that kind of thing because there is very little difference between last year’s running jacket and this year’s.) But I would try and avoid the “you are a weird weirdo, why can’t you just be normal and drive like a normal person” tone in some of these comments! Except for the last three months of pregnancy, I have always walked or cycled to work and I would start looking for a new job if it looked like that wasn’t an option. You can absolutely tell someone how they need to present themselves when they get to work, but telling people *how* they should commute is a wild overstep.

    Reply ↓
    1. Spooz*

      Yeah, I think the running to work is totally fine. It’s what he wants to do. I’m sure he’s considered other options (even if he wishes he could drive but can’t afford a car, clearly he’s landed on this as the best solution). It’s a super efficient twofer: exercise and getting from A to B all in one. Even if he wants to freeze his wotsits off and roll around in the mud like a dog en route. You do you, Leonard. I think that aspect of him sounds pretty cool.

      And as with so many of the letters on this site, it’s not the LW’s job to come up with solutions for Leonard. It’s the LW’s job to clearly explain the problems to Leonard and the consequences if he fails to come up with solutions.

      So it IS the LW’s business what he does once he steps through the door into the building: he must look presentable and professional and not leave any mess or cause any extra work to anyone. That means no mud or water anywhere; no daily laundry in the bathrooms; no daily visible shivering; no all-day space heater; ready to finish commute-related activities by X o’clock if applicable (not all jobs have a start time).

      Leonard is a big boy and can figure out himself if he needs different running clothes, warmer office clothes, to join the gym, to arrive earlier to deal with stuff… whatever. The LW needs to name problems clearly and specifically, set a timeline for improvement, and check in to see that changes are being made.

      I think some of the commenters are forgetting that it’s not Leonard who wrote in asking for solutions.

      Reply ↓
    2. NothingIsLittle*

      I don’t think the running clothes are the problem re:warmth; I think it’s that he sponge bathes in the office after arriving and is wet.

      Reply ↓
  25. Angstrom*

    This should be a two-way street: Companies should make a reasonable efort to accommodate folks who run/bike/walk/etc, and individuals who do should make an effort not to be disruptive of normal office behavior. For example, the solution to tracking mud could be a pair of lightweight garden clogs he puts on at the front door. One day could be a walk instead of a run, with a backpack full of clean dry clothes inbound and dirty ones outbound. At the same time, the company should have a goal of making human-powered commuting easier for everyone.

    Reply ↓
  26. HonorBox*

    What Leonard is doing is just being a bad teammate. He could run to work, get changed and no one would be any the wiser if he wanted. But he’s made it a problem that is impacting others.

    1. Tell Leonard that he cannot do his laundry on site. I’m a little unclear about whether he’s putting those pants back on or if they’re just left to dry in his workspace, but either way, he needs to not wash clothes in a sink. I don’t imagine the plumbing in a restroom sink is really set up for handling that kind of dirt and grime.

    Note: If he needs “work” clothes to change into, it is VERY easy for him to be Don Draper and have work clothes in his desk. He could have enough on hand for a couple of days, make a quick change in the restroom and then launder his running clothes at home like everyone else does. While slightly different, when I’ve biked to work, I’ve put a change of clothes in a backpack and carried them with me. I’ll note that I also wasn’t washing or rinsing them when I got to work. They just got jammed back into my backpack and I addressed the laundry at home. He could easily use a small trash can liner to put wet stuff into so it isn’t making his backpack wet and isn’t dripping down the hall. It also ensures all his stuff is contained so he’s not dropping underpants or socks as he walks down the hall.

    2. If his shoes are so wet and muddy that he’s causing a mess, tell him that he needs to drop them at the door. Others shouldn’t have to worry about tracking through his mess.

    3. Because of the lack of privacy, changing in the restroom makes sense, but similar to above, no one else should have to worry about running into his mess. If he muddies the floor, if the floor is wet, etc. he needs to clean up after himself.

    4. I’d think that having a dry and clean change of clothes should help the shivering. If not, and if it is so distracting that people don’t want to be around him, I think you do need to suggest that he have a sweater or hoodie available. While you don’t want to govern people’s clothing choices, when someone’s visible discomfort to the temperature is that distracting, they also should be able to make some minor adjustments.

    The gym and the space heater are red herrings to me. Neither need to be mentioned. It is altogether possible for Leonard to run to work, be in warmer, dry clothes by the time he is “on the clock,” and still run a space heater as needed. And while he COULD work out at the gym, that’s only a solution if someone is footing the bill for him. Also, when I was running, I very much preferred running outside versus on a treadmill. So even if it is free, he might not want to, and shouldn’t have to.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sara without an H*

      Agreed. The problem is not that Leonard wants to/chooses to/has to run to work, the problem is that he needs to figure out a way to make himself presentable once he gets there. His coworkers should not have to deal with the mess he made/his wet underwear (!), or his being (apparently) too shivery to work. If he cleans up in the rest room, he needs to leave it clean when he’s finished. (Would it be possible to get him a key to the maintenance closet?) But his manager needs to insist that he figure out a way to be fit to work as soon as he’s on the clock.

      I have no strong feelings about the space heater, although the facilities manager/health & safety officer may have some opinions.

      Reply ↓
  27. Sunny*

    I’m so confused by this individual. Does he not know about rain pants? I live in a city where lots of people cycle to work IN RAIN PANTS. You take them off and your clothes underneath are dry, so you don’t have to do awkward things like change your underwear at work. This isn’t rocket science. He can probably google a good handful of articles on how best to jog-commute to work, with helpful advice and suggestions (on top of everything listed here).

    And same thing with the shivering. Is he unfamiliar with sweaters, sweatshirts, and the like? I’ve never met someone who’s prone to cold (including myself) who doesn’t keep sweaters and such at their office. Hell, I even have wrist warmers and a lap blanket for when it gets really bad.

    This is all normal adulting stuff. I’m curious how old this guy is, because this is all things most of us have to figure out fairly early on in life.

    Reply ↓
    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      I thought the same, especially if he’s in a region where this weather is common! How does he not know other people doing the same?

      I think he might be like a friend of mine who knew about technical gear, etc., but felt the need to prove how tough/cool/efficient/something he was by not buying any and making do with whatever he already owned.

      Reply ↓
      1. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

        Truthfully running in rainpants is awful. The amount of sweat that just pools in nonbreathable will make the fact that he is at best sponge bathing in the bathroom very very obvious.

        Reply ↓
  28. Names, man*

    Just another tally mark for it doesn’t have to be this way…I used to do some run commuting as well. I brought clean work clothes in once a week and stored them in my desk drawer. The evening before each run I’d move a set of clothes and my (discreet) shower kit to a locker in the onsite gym. In the morning I’d come in from my run and go straight to the gym, get into a warm shower, and get fully work ready before heading up to the office. I was not the only one with this system. I don’t think I could reasonably have done it without the on site gym showers…but then the option would have been running to a nearby gym and cleaning up there, not just clomping through work all nasty

    Reply ↓
    1. Spacewoman Spiff*

      Yes, it’s a lack of planning that feels like the issue here to me! I used to run to work sometimes and it just required planning ahead to leave clothes and a coat (if it was cold season) at the office, if they weren’t ones that would pack well in my running backpack. I would time my arrivals so I got in early enough to get 15 or 20 minutes to clean up, change, put on makeup, in the private bathroom. I didn’t have an on-site gym but bought these heavy-duty cleaning clothes (like, a towel-sized wet wipe, that ran $2 or $3 a pop) so I could clean without leaving a mess in the bathroom. All the running clothes went into a special “wet bag” made by Brooks, to contain any stink until I could get home and get them into the laundry basket.

      (And to the commenters who have wondered why a person would run to work, there are reasons other than masochism! I had one very tough client and realized if I could tucker myself out in the morning with a run, I was much better at handling her–it felt easier to keep my cool. No way to fit both a run and a commute into my schedule, so I combined the two.)

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Lack of Planning is really it. Leonard seems to think that every single time he does this is a discrete thing unto itself, not a long running (sorry) pattern of thoughtless behavior that is impacting his coworkers, who are definitely making note of mud, water, soggy underwear, potential loss of things like teakettles, and violent shivering in meetings.

        Reply ↓
  29. Stuart Foote*

    I am a pretty avid runner so I’m a little confused by Leonard. First, most options for running clothes don’t require washing onsite. Assuming it’s a cold, rainy day, most runners would wear tights with a built in liner and a rain jacket with a hood that is mostly waterproof. No underwear required. Amazon sells laundry bags for very cheap that will keep wet, sweaty clothes contained and scent free.

    Assuming he sweats on the runs, and doesn’t have access to a shower, I’m curious how he deals with body odor. Also, if his running clothes get soaked every morning, what does wear home?

    The point is it seems that Leonard is being very inconsiderate and there are many options available that would make things easier for everyone, including Leonard.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I think he doesn’t have proper running clothing. Or if he does have some clothing, maybe its just sweats, so he washes it up and dries it, which is why the heater is on?

      He deals with body order by washing up in the bathroom which is why the op talks about dripping water and soggy underwear. Although why he has to wash his underwear is really odd.

      Reply ↓
  30. DidIRollMyEyesOutLoud*

    Somebody get this guy an electric throw blanket. I used to have one at my desk and it was glorious.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      and some hand warmers, or as someone else said above, a warming scarf.

      I honestly think that he just has the wrong type of clothing for jogging. Good quality athletic wear can be expensive, and if he is jogging to save on commute costs I can understand the hardship. But he should look for second hand stuff then because this is not a professional r sustainable way.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jane Anonsten*

        Not necessarily! Our facilities policy outlaws space heaters but allows electric blankets — I asked for the reasoning behind that once and it was partially because a space heater only impacts the person using it. 15 employees using electric blankets isn’t going to impact the ambient temperature of the office, but 15 employees using space heaters could.

        Reply ↓
  31. Boss Scaggs*

    I get this is not the main point but why are there multiple personal kettles? Isn’t there a kitchen or at least a coffee area where someone could get hot water? Space heaters at least serve a purpose – I don’t get why you would need your own kettle in an office though

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I am assuming this is England, where tea is A Thing. Abandon hope, all ye who ask questions about the tea kettles.

      Reply ↓
        1. Lexi Vipond*

          I don’t think I know anyone here who says ‘space heater’ either, it’s just a heater.

          I’ve always thought it must mean one of those old-fashioned metal ones that’s kind of thicker than a radiator and has an empty space inside it, but it seems to just be any heater that’s used to heat up a particular space!

          Reply ↓
          1. Flor*

            Yes, I believe the “space” in “space heater” is in contrast to central heating. So a 3-bar electric fire would be a space heater (and also, technically, those electric storage heaters that mean the flat is roasting when you’re at work during the day and then freezing when you’re home in the evening).

            Reply ↓
          2. bamcheeks*

            Huh, I actually would say space heater to mean those massively inefficient things that blow out warm air, unlike something that provides radiant heat like normal central heating or an oil-filled radiator radiator.

            Reply ↓
      2. Flor*

        Actually, that was the line that told me it likely *isn’t* Britain, even though the weather description sounded like it was. I’ve never heard anyone in the UK refer to it as a “tea kettle”; it’s just a kettle.

        Reply ↓
        1. londonedit*

          Yep, same. We don’t say ‘tea kettle’ here. And it would be very, very unusual for people to have to bring their own kettles – every office here is equipped with a communal kettle and usually company-provided tea bags, coffee and milk. You don’t have to bring your own supplies and certainly not your own kettle.

          Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Because sometimes the kitchen is really, really far from you desk and you can get multiple cups of tea out of a single fill of the kettle.

      Reply ↓
  33. ubotie*

    If they did, that would result in confiscation of not only the space heater but other not-exactly-approved appliances like personal tea kettles. Alison, there would be riots.

    Frankly, riots are preferable to a building explosion or 40 dead in a fire (or even just a building-wide fuse blow-out) but uh, you do you, I guess, OP.

    There is just…a lot to unpack in this letter and a lot of “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!” energy going on here. Some real “Ned Flanders’ beatnik parents’ strategies” of dealing with problems going on here.

    Reply ↓
    1. Melody Powers*

      Yeah I found that very distracting and unwise, but I survived a housefire and I’m very sensitive to fire hazards now. If dealing with him gets the safety committee to do more to actually keep them safe, I see that as a good thing.

      Reply ↓
  34. I Can*

    So is it always raining and that is why he is wet or is he so sweaty that his cloths are dripping? Is he running through a field that he is muddle? If it is not always raining and he is not at the gym how does he clean up after his run so that he does not smell like sweat all day? Is he wiping up in the bathroom or changing cloths or wearing the same cloths that he ran in? I am so confused by the whole thing. . .

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  35. I Can't Even*

    So is it always raining and that is why he is wet or is he so sweaty that his cloths are dripping? Is he running through a field that he is muddle? If it is not always raining and he is not at the gym how does he clean up after his run so that he does not smell like sweat all day? Is he wiping up in the bathroom or changing cloths or wearing the same cloths that he ran in? I am so confused by the whole thing. . .

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      It sounds like everyday he goes into the bathroom and changes/ cleans up bird bath style. That’s why there is water in the bathroom. I find it odd that he seems to be changing his underwear too (based on the fact he dropped them in front of someone).

      Reply ↓
      1. Awesome Sauce*

        “bird bath style”

        I am now picturing Leonard sitting fully IN the sink, vibrating his limbs and spraying water hither and yon.

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  36. Jellyfish Catcher*

    This person’s running is an important part of this life, but he cannot bring in to the office, especially with negative effects.
    Allison suggested “can you find a solution…,” which is kind, but also be clear that the solution starts by the next working day.
    I don’t even want to imagine a coworker dropping wet underwear next to anybody, male or female – in the office – and not have his manager discuss that behavior.

    It’s not just the water, mud and messes, the laundry, but the effects on the other people and the atmosphere in the office.
    He has to maintain a level of professionalism and ability to work effectively during work hours. This includes not letting himself to be so affected by cold exposure, that it reduces his ability to concentrate at work and affects his coworkers.
    We Need An Update!

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  37. Falling Diphthong*

    I like that this letter can be summarized: Leonard, your morning runs pose a threat to the tea kettles.

    Reply ↓
  38. Heather*

    Is there a less expensive gym nearby? Planet Fitness is $11 a month in most of the U.S. and other companies like 24 Hour Fitness and YouFit are also very affordable options that he could potentially look into.
    I think it is perfectly acceptable to say that coming in caked in mud and soaking wet is not an appropriate way to enter the workspace.

    Reply ↓
    1. Coverage Associate*

      Was going to suggest this. In addition to the gym in my office building, there are 4 others within walking distance, from the one in the 4 Seasons that offers gym memberships to non guests to the Planet Fitness.

      Reply ↓
  39. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

    He could check with the gym whether they could give him a special deal for just shower access. My husband did this when he biked to work.

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  41. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    I wish the OP had put more details about what type of pants he is washing. Is it he is washing his athletic clothes after changing into work clothes. Or is he jogging in his work clothes? It almost sounds like he his completely changing, including underwear, and washing up in the bathroom. I sure hope its a single bathroom and not one with several stalls.

    1. He should use wipes instead of water in the sink. It would be much less messy.
    2.If he is able (like he has an office or a locker) he should leave some work clothes in his office and then change from athletic clothes to his work clothes. He could very easily keep a few pairs of pants and just change the shirt.
    3. He should also have separate work shoes. Similar to what people in snowy climates do. You have your office shoes that you change into and change into your boots when you leave.
    4. The OP says he “is tromping through in muddy shoes or bare feet.” They need to have a safety conversation about the bare feet but I don’t know if there’s much to do about muddy shoes. Afterall that could happen to ANY of the workers.

    Reply ↓
    1. Coverage Associate*

      I think the office might be unreasonably furnished for its climate and it only comes up with Leonard because he commutes in a different way. I have worked in a few offices where it was possible to go from your garage at home to the office garage to the office without ever seeing the sky. Same if you did park and ride with the subway. But the office should still have adequate mats at the doors for people who do commute through the weather. Also places to hang outer clothes.

      Adequate mats and coat hooks wouldn’t solve all the problems raised by OP, but it seems like an office especially unprepared for people who arrive on foot.

      Reply ↓
    2. New Jack Karyn*

      I think he’s getting to work in running clothes, and rinsing those out in the sink to wear on the run home. This includes underpants, thus him dropping a pair on an isolated occasion. Then he gets into his work clothes, and during that process cools off enough that he has the shivers.

      Reply ↓
  42. Adam807*

    I suppose the letter writer would have mentioned if he smelled along with the mud but he’s running to work and then not showering?? I cannot.

    Reply ↓
  43. Honey cocoa*

    I’m wondering if a heating pad or a snuggle safe on his chair might be more effective than running the space heater at full blast.

    Reply ↓
    1. goddessoftransitory*

      I think he’s doing it to dry his wet clothing? It’s clearly not efficient at warming him up if he’s violently shivering in meetings.

      Reply ↓
  44. Hermione Danger*

    I didn’t read all of the comments, but didn’t see this. He could just follow the advice my mother incessantly forced into the heads of myself and my siblings: If you’re cold, put on a sweater. he could keep a work-appropriate sweater (and even a full change of clothes) at the office so that he doesn’t get so cold. Also, what runner doesn’t understand the concept of layering?

    Reply ↓
  45. I own one tenacious plant*

    The solution is for him to come in earlier, give himself time to get changed, sort out his gear and warm up a bit before having to engage with colleges in work mode. Winter may require a little more planning – like driving or bussing one day a week to bring in clean clothes for the entire week

    Reply ↓
  46. Eve Polastri*

    I’ve been biking to work for 30 years. Before doppler radar, i could come in soaked. I also tend to get cold after running. Feel free to pass on these suggestions:

    1. Pick one day to not run/ride. Bring a changes of dry clothes for multiple days. I have desk drawers for clothes and shoes. In the days of big computer monitors i would dry clothes on them little by little. i was sly about it and nobody noticed.
    2. He needs to change in a bathroom stall!
    3. Tell him expedition weight thermals under his pants will cut the chill factor.

    As much as people are grossed out by him, he isn’t contributing to the morning commute!

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Re: 2 — I think mentioning he changes in the bathroom was to explain why he isn’t changing in his office; there isn’t anything that suggests he’s changing out in the open in the bathroom.

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  47. Percysowner*

    As to what the company can do, at the very least you could buy a box of shoe covers and simply make the announcement that they are to be used whenever someone comes in with muddy shoes. The runner needs to be told that this is his office, not his home and he can’t do laundry and certainly can’t be carrying wet underwear out in the open. Dirty clothes need to be put in some kind of carrier and washed at home or someplace that isn’t the office. That he must place wet or dirty clothing in some kind of tote or bag. Also that he needs to have clean, dry clothes available for work. He can figure out how to switch over after his run.

    This is work and a certain amount of professionalism is required. Imposing your personal cleaning on your coworkers isn’t professional. Leaving evidence that he is washing his clothes, traipsing in mud and dropping used underwear is simply out of the question. Your office COULD look into subsidizing the gym fees or seeing if you can negotiate a “showers only” rate would be a nice gesture and another way to keep the mess out of the office.

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  48. Really.*

    Or suggest that he run home from work…presumably his running clothes would be clean and dry ay the beginning of his run….

    Reply ↓
  49. Boston biker*

    I used to bike to work. I would bring a change of clothes and cool off/change shortly after getting to the office.

    The way I made this work was by ensuring I had plenty of time between my arrival at the office and my first meeting or necessary face-to-face encounter with other people.

    It’s certainly possible to accommodate fitness as part of a commute, but it requires a little planning and flexibility to pull it off.

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      This was my first thought, but I assume it’s like my office where some rooms are boiling and some are freezing and there is no in between because the HVAC sucks.

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Before the remodel of my workspace, our corner of the big phone center was called “Little Siberia” because it was a good ten degrees colder than the rest of the room. And this was one big space; no doors or partitions or anything. It was the number one request to have improved when the company redid the space!

        Reply ↓
    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      My last office was in an area of the building where they hadn’t installed the (giant, plate glass) windows properly, so they were basically uninsulated. It was always freezing in the winter and cranking up the heat did nothing. Too expensive to properly fix, so we had to make do with other solutions.

      Reply ↓
  51. Sarahnova*

    Honestly, my perspective is that offices big enough to have an onsite gym should have free, accessible showering and changing space for active commuters. Maybe it’s just because I’m a Londoner and companies are highly incentivised to support active commuting to improve air quality and reduce their parking costs and headaches, but a changing room makes all the difference. My current work has excellent facilities including permanent lockers in the cycle changing room and a drying room, and thus allows me to both commute by bike which is the DREAM and to be fresh and presentable every morning.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sarah With an H*

      I agree. This building HAS the needed infrastructure, it just doesn’t make it accessible, which is a shame. I do wish we incentivized alternate forms of transportation more than we do in the US.

      Reply ↓
  52. Raida*

    I’d go talk to the gym ownership about the business being able to get some kind of cheaper deal for their staff, and if we could do a locker & shower only access.
    You never know, might be some solution in there.

    One issue is how can he get into the work building without dripping – I’d actually consider something like “You’re going to put a towel *here* by the front door, and when you arrive, take off your shoes, use the towel to squeeze out water from your clothes, and then walk to the toilets.
    If you leave water and mud, every single day, honestly it’s a slip hazard and you can clean it up mate”

    Reply ↓
    1. goddessoftransitory*

      I’ve full on wiped out on wet floors; it’s no joke. The LW’s company needs to make sure Leonard solves this before they get sued by someone injured due to his trail of mud and water.

      Reply ↓
  53. Ann Jansi*

    If it’s such a hassle for him arriving after running he should not be running to work at all. Period. This is so unprofessional. He can’t be freezing all day, if that is the case he need to buy warmer clothes and/or visit a doctor if something is wrong with his internal thermostat.

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  54. Lana Kane*

    “But ultimately your job isn’t to solve this for him; you just need to lay out the pieces that need to change ”

    I feel like this gets missed so often. You don’t need to make him solve this issue in any particular way. You just need to tell him this can’t keep happening. I’d argue that the solution should come from him, because then there is at least a certain level of buy-in if he’s the one who comes up with a solution.

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  55. Ann O'Nemity*

    If Leonard is going to regularly show up wet and muddy, he needs to get that gym membership and access to the locker rooms.

    (Originally, I wanted to go with more flexible advice to bring towels, changes of warm clothes, clean shoes, and wet bags. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a professional way for muddy Leonard to get clean enough to get through the shared spaces to the restroom. I mean, do you want him toweling off and changing shoes in the lobby? No, of course not. While advice like towels and wet bags might work in theory, it’s not practical if he’s consistently showing up wet, muddy, and shivering to the point where it disrupts others.)

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  56. Ialwaysforgetmyname*

    I walk or bike to work year-round about 95% of the time, including in rain, snow, and very hot weather. I have none of these issues. Leonard needs to be an adult and figure out a solution to a not very difficult problem.

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  57. Overthinking It*

    Look, if a manager us allowed to call someone down about being visibly in pain (due to cramps) I think it’s got to be equally legit to call Leonard out on the shivering (visibly cold). Not that I agree with either, but fair is fair. “Sauce for the goose. . . is sauce for the gander!”

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  58. Overthinking It*

    And why have a company gym at all, if the cost is going to be prohibitive? Costs could be lower per person if more people joined, which lower fees would encourage, of course – but aren’t they usually a free perk?

    Reply ↓
    1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      I think this is a building with a gym and also office space, so it’s on-site but not a company gym.

      Reply ↓
  59. It's Me*

    I’d be interested to confirm that he has alternative transportation to work. If he’s this miserable… well, some people do things that make them miserable on purpose, true, but I wonder how much is actually by choice.

    Reply ↓
  60. PDB*

    At one time I cycled 25 miles to work over a pretty big hill and never needed to do that sort of clean up and I had a client facing job. It was a casual dress job but still…

    Reply ↓
  62. Some Dude*

    Depending on how much and how often Leonard is tracking in mud with his shoes and pants, I see him going to a gym to shower/clean up as just shifting the mess to another location. I imagine a gym would expect you to be taking a standard shower pre/post-workout, not washing your muddy pants and shoes.

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  63. LW*

    OP here! Thanks Alison and all for the comments. To clarify a couple of things:
    -the “pants” being washed are athletic pants, not underpants or his work trousers. He does carry a backpack which (I’m assuming) contains at least some other clothes, as he doesn’t turn up to meetings in his running gear.
    -as far as I know he’s just rinsing mud off of his running pants/bag as opposed to full-on laundering his entire outfit
    -at our workplace, if you have a gym membership you have locker/shower access, and if you don’t you do not.

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  64. Adverb*

    So I may have a different solution. Ask him to inquire at the gym about a shower only (or shower and locker only) membership. I have had these at some “corporate-type” gyms. It is usually 20-30% of the membership price and would address the issues you’re having.

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  65. Leaf*

    I like the approach of laying out the expectations. If an employee was tracking mud and whatnot all over the place, that would be addressed – the context of “it’s because he runs” or whatever doesn’t mean the expectations change. I would also explicitly suggest that he “Bring a warm change of clothes”. To me, that phrase kind of addresses multiple issues – like other people are saying, is he rinsing them and then putting them BACK ON? “Running” is also interesting. More than walking, or biking. Because he clearly isn’t putting on a rainjacket and carrying an umbrella…it’s more like he is literally trying to get his morning run in. It’s almost like he views the run, and then work, as two separate things. He may not be seeing it as a commute or connected to the start of his workday. Honestly, I am so confused by Leonard’s choices here, and it seems like he is being thoughtless. I bike to work, because I have to, and I’ve walked to work in the past, but I have it down to a science. I arrive early, I have deodorant in my backpack, socks if it might rain. I am genuinely stressed out by the idea of appearing any differently than my coworkers with cars. But, Leonard is not me, and he may not realize how it looks. I think taking the approach of “this isn’t working, let’s brainstorm ways to fix it” is always the compassionate and best one, at least to start with.

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    1. londonedit*

      I can – it’s been below zero here for the last week, and when I did my long run on Sunday I was wearing several layers and was warm and sweaty while I was running, but then once you stop, that core heat disappears, and it’s very easy to get cold. Even after a hot shower I still had to bundle up in a thermal top and a big woolly jumper and have a bowl of soup for lunch to make sure I warmed up properly. If I’d run to work in -5 and just had a shower and changed into work clothes, I’d have been freezing.

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  69. Commenter*

    I’m confused about what relationship the shivering and the running have. Does he get so cold during his run that he’s cold for the rest of the day? Shouldn’t he just wear more layers when running then?

    One practical thing would be to negotiate a “showers-only” pass for the company gym! This should ideally be a lot cheaper so may fit into his budget.

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  70. Anita*

    I live in New Zealand and from the response and the comments I suspect the culture and expectations are different here. But anyhow … the answer to a kiwi asking that question would be “you need to provide proper end of trip facilities!”

    Active commuting (running, cycling, walking etc to work) is an excellent thing for wellbeing and the environment. Providing a place for staff to dry off, get changed, shower, and dry clothes is the absolute minimum you can do – as a normal part of the workplace not a paid for extra. Providing secure bike storage, decent lockers so they can leave clothes in the changing area, and so on is pretty normal. Some employers also provide towels, a bike fixing stand, an annual payment/reimbursement for active gear, etc.

    Reply ↓

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