I don’t want to babysit my brother in my office

by Alison Green on January 22, 2025

A reader writes:

This letter has a lot of personal issues attached to it, but I swear this is job-related.

My mother is trying to strong-arm me into letting my 13-year-old brother stay in my office with me after school since his school is close to where I work.

I’ve had an exhausting feud with my mother because of her passive parenting of my brother. She simultaneously thinks I don’t do enough to control him, while any actual consequences I give him always get me a “why did you have to be so meeeeeean to him?” (My father passed away a few years ago, unfortunately.)

Predictably, this has led to my brother being insufferable for anyone to be around and, bluntly, a professional liability. To briefly give you an idea of what my brother is like:

* On a family trip to the zoo this last Christmas, my brother “innocently” pointed out the size of the zebra’s genitalia loud enough for anyone within ten feet to hear.

* Made inappropriate remarks every time one of our toddler cousins used a phrase with the word “daddy.”

* Remember those DJ Bouncin’ Beats toys where the toy makes a song and bounces to whatever someone records on it? Guess who followed the TikTok trend of making porn noises to it in the Walmart toy aisle?

* And the reason why this discussion about me babysitting him at work came in the middle of the school year? Because he isn’t allowed in extracurriculars for the rest of the year because he’s been sexually harassing a female classmate.

My response to my mother was ABSOLUTELY NOT, and I put my foot down by saying I couldn’t let my brother into the office even if I wanted to.

Unfortunately, my mother has taken it a step further by calling my job without my knowledge. She only got to talk to the receptionist, but when my mom asked if single moms are allowed to bring their kids in, the receptionist confirmed that it was allowed. My mother then let me know how wrong I was about the policy at my own job.

I haven’t brought any of this up to my manager because I wanted to solve it on my own first, and I didn’t think my family issues should be his problem. However, I’m starting to feel like I should bring it up to him to figure out what we can do to keep my brother out of the office (especially now that my mother already involved my job).

Do you have any suggestions or scripts to navigate this professionally without any undue burden to my manager or coworkers? In terms of telling my manager about my family situation, do I just say that I do not trust my brother to curb his disruptive behavior in the office? I felt like my mother contacting my job herself was also a huge unprofessional breach, so how do I tell my manager that I had never asked her to call on my behalf? Or is there any way I can approach this without dragging my poor manager into it at all?

Whoa, your mom really overstepped when she called your office!

Remember this, though: your office isn’t going to make you bring your brother in just because your mom wants you to. You don’t need to figure out a solution with them. You only need to hold firm with your mom that it’s not happening.

It was reasonable to tell your mom that you couldn’t bring your brother to work even if you wanted to; that would be the case in many — in fact, most — jobs. And for what it’s worth, even if your particular office allows parents to bring kids in, (a) this isn’t your kid, and (b) that generally means “on rare occasions during a child care emergency,” not “as a daily supervision plan.”

But even if you worked in the rare office that would allow your brother to hang out there every day, your mom should have dropped it as soon as you said you couldn’t make it work. Wanting to be able to focus on your job without babysitting a challenging kid is a very, very reasonable stance; most people would feel that way. Pushing you to divide your attention every day would be unfair to you, to employer, and to your coworkers (and probably to your brother, too).

And even if your office welcomed the daily presence of your brother (which, again, is highly unlikely even if he were well-behaved), it doesn’t matter because you get to decide you’re not doing it. You’re not doing it because he’ll distract you from work that requires your focus / he’ll distract other people from their work / he won’t behave appropriately / it would reflect poorly on your own professional judgment — take your pick. All of those are legitimate reasons.

If your mom will only accept a no if you first persuade her that you have a “good enough” reason: that’s too bad for her. You don’t need her to sign off on your decision. You can just say, “No, I can’t do that” and hold firm. If you want to explain more, you can say, “I can’t do my own job and watch him.” You can say, “I’m not willing to jeopardize my job over this.” Sometimes when you’re dealing with boundary-crossing family members like your mom, it’s better not to give any reason at all because the person will just debate you, but you know best whether that’s the case with your mom. Either way, what ultimately matters is that your answer is no and you’re not going to change that.

You don’t need her to be happy about your stance, or to convince her that her proposal is a bad one. You just need to convey that it will not happen and it’s not up for further debate. Her feelings about that are up to her and she will have to work through them, but you do not need to give in just because she’s unhappy. Maybe she’s going to be unhappy about it, and that’s okay.

As for your boss, I don’t know that you need to say anything about it to him at all. But if addressing it would give you peace of mind, it’s fine to! You could say, “I want to give you a heads-up that my mother, who tends to cross boundaries, has been trying to convince me to let my brother stay at the office with me after school. I consider that an absolute no-go and told her that — and then unbeknownst to me, she called the office and asked Jane if it would be allowed. I’m handling this within my family — and my brother will not be coming here — but I wanted to loop you in in case she tries calling again. I’m sorry to involve you at all.” (You don’t need to get into your brother’s behavior at all; it’s understandable to refuse the request regardless, even if he were an angel who would mop the kitchen and deliver snacks to your coworkers.)

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    2. The Original K.*

      Yeah, I’d loop the boss in in case Mom tries something else. If she’s brazen enough to call OP’s job (!), she’s brazen enough to track down the boss, show up with the brother in tow, etc.

      1. Takki*

        It sounds like Mom’s desperate, and desperate people do insane things – OP needs to have a talk with their boss immediately. If Mom decides to just drop brother off or have him just show up there after school, there needs to already a plan in place for dealing with it.

        1. CatLady*

          honestly, I would head it off at the pass with dear old deranged mom
          “if you leave an unaccompanied minor child at my place of work, CPS will be called as well as the police”

            1. KateM*

              By the description, it sounds more like the brother would have a better chance to be steered away from a path to total disaster for his future.

            2. PurpleShark*

              This seems to be a common misconception that CPS first action is to remove a child from the home. I have been a counselor of children for over 26 years and have made more calls to CPS than I can count and have only had a child removed once. That child was returned when his father who left his child’s face a black and blue mess agreed to leave the home instead. Foster homes or temporary placements are not easy to come by so they generally try to work with the family. In this case they would probably give the mom a stern chat about abandonment and the consequences of that. Removing him would not be the fix.

            3. CowWhisperer*

              Unlikely – but this isn’t a family who is doing well as is. The son is sexually harassing classmates and the mom called her daughter’s job and asked about childcare emergencies for single moms… but her daughter isn’t a mother.

              The mom needs to seek out services for her son ASAP and stop trying to rope her daughter into being her co-parent.

              1. Jennifer Juniper*

                Not to mention she’s attaching a stigma of teen pregnancy to a possibly underage child.

            4. K*

              Speaking as a social worker, it’s deeply unlikely he would be taken away just for this (an investigation might find further safety issues tho). Likelier interventions would be referring the mother to child care resources and/or family therapy.

              1. She of Many Hats*

                The other safety issues is what I would hope for based on his history of sexual harassment. Being expelled from all extracurricular/after-school activities is a short step from being expelled from the school. CPS may be able to start the process of making mom get the help her son needs so he won’t end up on a sex crimes watch list.

            5. Irish Teacher.*

              I doubt a 13 year old would be taken into care for being left at a workplace for an afternoon. I don’t know US laws or the laws of whatever country the LW is in, but generally, it’s not that easy to have a child taken into care and leaving a 13 year old alone for a few hours would not be enough to do it.

              1. JSPA*

                This varies by state, but unless you’re in Illinois (where apparently you have to be 14 to be home alone???), 13 is probably OK, if it’s a known location and not dangerous.

            6. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

              Being taken away is very unlikely – but it would not even a terrible outcome, because that boy needs professional help before he reaches adulthood and his mum is not providing it.

            7. Reluctant Mezzo*

              He’s not doing real well where he is. Some counseling intervention might be a really good idea.

            8. Worldwalker*

              My gut feeling is that being around a woman who expects to be able to strongarm his sister into risking her job to provide childcare—and who, apparently, has raised him to be the problem that he is—would be more harmful than the alternative.

            9. ubotie*

              People really seem to overestimate CPS’ resources, and also generally have no clue as to like, what they actually do. Even if the obvious answer was “we should get this kid into a different living situation immediately,” that is very much not always feasible to thanks to understaffing, caseload, MONEY, lack of temporary foster placements, etc. And the overall ethos of CPS is to ultimately keep/reunite the kid with the biological family (even if everyone knows that like, within 3 months, that kid is going to wind up dead by their bio parent’s own hand anyway–we can argue about why this is the overall ethos at another time). So reporting something to CPS does NOT automatically trigger this kid being taken away, even if there were clear signs of neglect, physical or sexual abuse, etc. Not if the region they’re in has a CPS/DHS/DFS that is horribly overworked, understaffed, and has no money (spoiler: pretty much every region’s CPS/DHS/DFS is like that). If the family is white, middle class or higher, etc, then the odds of the kid being removed from the home at all, let alone that day, go down even more–even with blaringly-obvious signs of neglect or abuse.

          2. Rainy*

            This is correct. CPS isn’t going to remove the child just for this–in fact, they may not even have a stern talk with LW’s mother about it, depending on a lot of factors we don’t and can’t know–but I have found that with entitled asshats like LW’s mother, when you make it clear that you aren’t playing, they’ll go push on someone they judge more likely to cave.

            Literally the only way to handle this is to immediately make it clear that this is a hill you will die on.

          3. Crystal Lettuce*

            What the CPS has to with it? 13 years old is old enough to leave the office building and go home (or wherever he wants) unsupervised. I am not from the US though, are the rules different there?

            2. Helewise*

              I’m a little puzzled on this part too except that the brother seems really irresponsible. Thirteen is about the age when supervised options start to be hard to come by because kids can stay home on their own (I’m trying to find ways to occupy my similarly-aged kids this summer so they’re not on YouTube all day, and it’s hard). But a normal 13-year-old should be able to be home.

        2. Rainy*

          She’s not desperate, she’s just entitled.

          Her own actions are what got her to a point where her son is dangerous to the health and safety of other children and can’t take part in afterschool programs and now she’s expecting LW to pick up the slack in, I’m willing to bet, exactly the same way she has been parentifying LW her entire life.

          1. Lab Boss*

            Desperate doesn’t include a value judgement, it’s a matter of perception. People can get into situations entirely of their own making, and have good options that they won’t consider, and still feel just as desperate (and be just as prone to doing something outrageous in that desperation) as someone who’s trying hard to do everything right and is in a bad situation out of pure bad luck.

            1. Rainy*

              I doubt she feels desperate. She has a problem that would cost her effort or money to solve, and she doesn’t want to expend either, but expects her daughter to risk her job to solve it for her. That’s not desperation. That’s entitlement.

              1. JSPA*

                We don’t know that she has either time or money; it isn’t mentioned in the letter, and we should not suppose either way. What he almost certainly is, is old enough to be home alone.

                Don’t they have some sort of detention space or study room where he can stay, if there isn’t transportation to the house after school, without participating in an extracurricular?

                If he’s “just” rude, having to sit in a locked classroom for 3 hours a day is a useful amount of time to think about the consequences of making unwanted sexual noises, advances, and outbursts. If it turns out that he can’t control it even in that sort of setting, then at least he’s in a good situation to have his problems written up, referred and assessed.

                1. Rainy*

                  You can’t lock kids in classrooms without supervision, especially not after school hours! Participating in an afterschool activity is usually the only authorization for being in the school building after classes dismiss for the day.

                2. DisgruntledPelican*

                  School isn’t childcare. They’re not going out of their way to watch a disruptive kid they’ve already said can’t participate in extra curricular activities because of his alarming behavior.

                  School also isn’t jail. So no, there aren’t really “detention spaces” where you can lock a kid up for several hours.

                3. Elizabeth the Ginger*

                  I’m a teacher, and while there is aftercare at my school, it is staffed with a ratio of something like 10-20 students per adult. If a child did something that meant they could not be with the group – as OP’s brother did – then they would just not be allowed at aftercare. We would not have an adult available to supervise them one-on-one on a daily basis. It’s not in the budget to hire someone for that, and what teacher would just volunteer to do that unpaid? Moreover, I wouldn’t trust any kid unsupervised in my classroom for hours daily, let alone one who already has shown behavior problems.

                4. NotAnotherManager!*

                  It is not the school’s job to find a childcare solution for the parent. Elementary schools may offer aftercare, but extracurriculars are typically what middle schools would offer for older tweens/young teens – and he’s been kicked out of those due to behavior issues. Kids can’t be unsupervised after school, and why should any teacher take the risk with their classroom being rifled through or vandalized by this kid?

                  This is the parent’s problem to handle, not the schools, not the sister’s, definitely not the sister’s employer.

                5. Fiorinda*

                  Schools are not prisons, and solitary confinement is, for multiple very good reasons, not considered an acceptable behaviour management practice in them.

                6. JSPA*

                  Slow your roll! This must be more variable or regional than I thought, But our neighborhood schools still have supervised after school “detention” (though it goes under many names.)

                  Supervised classroom or the cafeteria. No phones, no music, no talking, 2 seats space between every student. What you are allowed to do is read or do written homework (many schools have tablets that block out all messaging and “fun stuff” on site). Web access is limited to approved reference sites. This isn’t considered an extracurricular, and there’s zero student-student interaction.

                7. Rainy*

                  Out of nesting.

                  So hang on, you are actually talking about detention, as in, the punishment for infractions detention? You can’t sit in detention just because you want to sit in detention–there’s a list. And your parent can’t decree that you get detention you haven’t earned just because they need some place to stash you after school. (Also, lots of schools don’t do detention anymore.)

                  Detention is a school-specific consequence for school rule infractions, it’s not a place to store your child.

          2. Reluctant Mezzo*

            And yet it’s not always the parents; some kids have alternate brain chemistry, and the parents are tearing their hair out over it. Or the kid might have been abused earlier in life and is acting out accordingly. Still, the kid needs to see professionals at this point.

      2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Exactly. I’d advise looping in the boss unless there’s a good reason not to, using Alison’s script. Don’t need to get into details. Just keep it factual. The vibe should be that you’re giving a heads up and have no interest in including anyone from work in any kind of family drama that may or may not be happening. Lots of people have messy family members; as long as you act like the reasonable, conscientious person you seem to be (rather than making excuses for them), any reasonable person won’t judge you for it.

        I’d add one important thing to Alison’s response: come up with plans ahead of time for what you’ll do if your mom does stuff like show up with the brother and drop him off and a) you catch her before she can leave, or b) she’s already left. Dealing with that type of situation is going to suck. It’s going to suck exponentially more if you’re trying to figure out what to do as it’s happening. Depending on what your boss and colleagues are like, they *could* be part of the plans. If mom tries to drop off brother, the receptionist will tell her he can’t stay, rather than letting him hang out.

    3. WeirdChemist*

      Yes, I would tell the boss if only to get ahead of the mom ramping up her calls to the office. I doubt she’ll stop where she’s at. Keep the discussion with Boss as non-dramatic sounding as possible (Alison’s wording sounds great!)

    5. Productivity Pigeon*

      So would I.
      Better bring it up on your own terms rather than her making an appointment with your boss or whatever other crazy idea she might get.

    6. JMR*

      I agree, I was thinking that I wouldn’t put it past a woman like this to drop the kid off sometime without letting OP know beforehand, and it might help to have a plan in place for what to do if that happens.

      1. Tea*

        This was my concern. She may move towards a “do it anyway” frame of mind in the face of a firm “no,” so having a solid plan in place will be key. Maybe she will never use it, but the mother has shown a previous disinclination to respect the OP’s firm no to her brother, so I don’t see her respecting a “no” to herself.

        1. Aggretsuko*

          I have a mom who doesn’t take no for an answer either, and sometimes I’ve just had to have storming out/screaming fits at her. I hate doing it, but if she won’t stop, and it sounds like this mom will not….

          1. Rainy*

            When your family makes it clear that the least reasonable person in any situation is the one that everyone tiptoes around, I’m afraid they’re forcing you to become the least reasonable person in any situation involving your family.

      2. Peter the Bubblehead*

        This was my first thought as well. Best to loop in the boss so if/when it happens he can step in (if necessary) to explain a working office is not amenible to daily babysitting services and the brother needs to be with a proper sitter elsewhere.
        Better the boss know and be prepared in advance than to have it dumped in his lap without warning some day.

        1. Not That Kind of Doctor*

          Actually, +1000 to all of the comments on this theme. It is not a matter of “IF” mom drops off the brother, it is “WHEN”. Better to have a game plan that you don’t need than to be scrambling in an intensely charged moment.

          1. AF Vet*

            Yup. Mom is going to roll right over those boundaries like they don’t exist. Inform boss now, and come up with a plan for when Mom inevitably tells Bro, “just go over to Sis’ office,” after school one day.

      4. Ms. Murchison*

        Came here to say the same. Some day soon, the mom is absolutely going to show up, tell the receptionist that the LW is expecting his brother and planning to babysit, then jet off before the LW gets there, to “prove” to them that it will work. LW might want to consider leaving a photo of his brother at the front entrance and making it clear that he shouldn’t be let in, since if left to roam the building there’s a nonzero chance he’ll start sexually harassing the staff.

        1. Reality.Bites*

          I think a general “don’t allow anyone past reception who isn’t accompanied by an employee” rule is standard in offices and covers it.

          But the receptionist should definitely be warned specifically about OP’s mother

          1. Lab Boss*

            Ditto on the warning. The rule might be in place but if LW is at all well-regarded I can 100% see a receptionist or other gatekeeper falling for the mom saying “Oh, LW is expecting little Buford.” After all, if it was legit, the kind thing to do would be to take Buford in today, and plan a talk with LW later to remind them that shouldn’t happen.

          2. Annie E. Mouse*

            Warning the receptionist especially! I’m surprised that she would tell mom over the phone that single parents are allowed to bring in their kids – that would be the kind of thing where most people would hem and say something about it depending on the situation on manager. She might be well meaning but completely naive about dealing with people like this.

            1. Anon for CA*

              True re. receptionist, that’s part of the reason why steamrollers like LW’s mom even get that far.

            2. Kiriana*

              Or if it’s just a situation she hasn’t dealt with before. I have something similar where I get flustered if I’m getting instructions at the same time from multiple sources, so eg if someone’s on the phone asking for something and I’m getting told just then for the first time how I should handle it I can struggle to apply the instructions from one conversation to the other conversation that’s already been started. But if they tell me beforehand how to handle that request then when it comes up I’m completely fine. (Learned this at the job where we also had to come up with a policy on the fly for how to deal with callers who were, let’s say, having pressing mental health related emergencies. We did a lot of on the job learning there.)

          3. Grith*

            Well yes, but relying on that rule still leaves the brother alone in reception, probably sexually harassing the receptionist, or at the very least, being loud and disruptive and asking the receptionist to summon LW to keep him busy.

            So yes, I think it’s well worth looping the boss in, and as part of that, asking to have a discrete chat with the receptionist and make sure she knows who to look out for and that she will be fully backed up in saying no to brother/mother if they try and pull a fast one.

      3. Person from the Resume*

        Ugh! I do wish the backup plan could be “I never agreed to this so I’m not watching him.”

        LW, you don’t have a job problem; you have a family problem. You need to set boundaries, tell your mom “no,” and have a plan that prevents her from trouncing your boundaries. You need to be able to tell her “no” and have it stick. That’s not on work to solve for you.

        1. Optimus*

          OP started the letter by saying they know this is a family problem. They then outlined the situation and why they’re reluctantly considering looping in their boss. “That’s not on work to solve for you” is a rather condescending leap. The question for Alison wasn’t “what do I do about my mom and brother,” it was “is it best to involve my manager in case this escalates.” Reasonable question. Which is why Alison gave a reasonable answer.

        2. Aggretsuko*

          I have a mom like this. “Set boundaries” does not work on someone who won’t stop when you say no, repeatedly. I have had the “boundaries and why you should have them!” lecture given to me a lot, and nobody has any suggestions for someone who insists on doing what she wants anyway no matter what you say about it. I’ve had to go nuclear on her at times.

          I hate to say “loop your boss into this,” but OP’s mom isn’t going to listen to a damn thing OP says when the mom want what she wants. If an authority figure that isn’t OP says no, that MIGHT actually be respected by the mother.

          1. Lellow*

            The thing is, your boundaries can only govern what you do, not what you can make/stop other people doing. So to be useful, a boundary can’t be, “I need my mum to stop phoning me at midnight,” it has to be more like, “If my mum won’t agree to stop phoning me after midnight I’m going to block her number” or whatever.

            2. boof*

              Yes exactly; the suggestion is to keep enforcing your boundary even if that means going no contact, blocking number, changing locks; eventually possibly even means calling the police (I know this is fraught but if the alternative is say, let someone trespass/steal your stuff/etc after you warned them, well, legal enforcement is the only alternative) and/or moving and hiding depending on the situation and how aggressive the person is.

              1. Properlike*

                Yes, calling the police is the only step. Have a print-out of the email ready for the officers that you told your mother your brother cannot come to the office and you cannot be in charge of him.

                OP, I hope you don’t also have to live with them. If there’s any way to do so, please extricate yourself ASAP and go full no-contact.

        3. Kevin Sours*

          You appear to be criticizing OP for … doing exactly what you suggest OP should be doing. Having a plan involves coordinating with their office which what they are asking advice about.

        4. Lab Boss*

          Look at it like this- an employee being diagnosed with a chronic illness isn’t my job as the boss to solve. But if that employee says “Hey, I need treatments Friday afternoons, can I work a flex schedule” or whatever, that’s me helping with the part of the problem that overlaps with work, and that IS my job as the boss to be part of.

        5. Worldwalker*

          I’m wondering if the LW is still living at home, in which case the difficulty of dealing with the mother triples.

      4. Totally Minnie*

        This was the exact scenario I was worried about reading the letter. LW and their boss need to make a plan for what the office will do if this happens, and LW needs to clearly communicate that plan to their mother. Bonus points if they’re able to print out the plan on company letterhead. “Any child present in the office whose parent is not an employee of Company will be considered an unattended minor, and Company will respond to the presence of unattended minors in the office by (insert plan here).”

        1. Just My Thoughts*

          My Inserted Plan: Call the police. If I came across an abandoned minor, I would be calling the law enforcement so that they can find the right solution.

        3. Chauncy Gardener*

          All of this absolutely.
          And OP, do you live with them or on your own? Is there any way to start limiting contact? Because this isn’t going to get any better. Ask me how I know….
          I wish you the very best of luck.

          1. ThisIshRightHere*

            This is my question. If OP has to go “home” to the mother and brother, the calculus might be different.

      5. Cat Lady*

        Yep. And honestly the backup plan needs to be to call Child Protective Services/the cops to report an abandoned child. OP is not the brother’s guardian. And it seems pretty clear that the kid needs some intensive therapy and mental health support. If the mother is unwilling or unable to do that, OP needs to escalate. It’s not fair to the brother that the mom keeps treating him like an inconvenient prop.

        1. Jackalope*

          Or just tell him to leave. At 13 he’s legally old enough to be left alone in all US states but Illinois. I can see why his mom is concerned about him being left alone, but it’s not like the OP’s employer would be kicking a 6 year old out alone on the street.

          1. Junior Assistant Peon*

            Agreed. You wouldn’t go calling the cops if you saw a 13-year-old walking around in public unaccompanied by a parent. The kid almost certainly has a cell phone to call Mom and tell her he needs to be picked up because the office wouldn’t let him in.

            1. Jackalope*

              Serious question: why not? Assuming this is the US, all states but Illinois allow 13 year olds to be unsupervised. He is old enough to take a bus on his own, to make calls on his cell phone, to take an Uber on his own (they have special teen accounts they can set up). He can go into other businesses and hang out there if needs be (retail sorts of places, not offices). Unless it’s a super long distance to their house he can walk home, and if it’s that long he could also take a school bus. I commented below that he’s old enough to legally supervise other children as a babysitter and take them places (the park, ice cream shop, etc.). Again, I wouldn’t do that with a 6 year old, but he’s old enough to manage an afternoon or two on his own. (And I’m guessing it wouldn’t take that many times for the OP’s mom to change up her strategy and not just dump him on the OP.)

              1. Properlike*

                Even if he’s in Illinois, it’s on the PARENT to make sure the child is not in a bad position, not the SISTER.

                The PARENT would be doing this, the PARENT would be liable. You can tell children to leave the establishment whenever you want. Or, if that makes you uncomfortable, you call the police to take custody of the children until they can locate the parent.

                Note: This is for circumstances when children are in public and don’t know how to act, not the kid who’s running errands with the parents’ knowledge, etc.

            2. Dahlia*

              I mean. That is very regionally dependent. The idea of a 13 year old not being able to be “on the street” aka outside in my town is laughable.

              1. MigraineMonth*

                I’d worry if the kid were *living* on the street or out in really bad weather, but everywhere I’ve lived it wouldn’t be unusual for a 13-year-old to be by themselves for 2-3 hours after school.

                1. Quill*

                  Yeah, where I grew up 13 year olds (not this one, for obvious reasons) are often in charge of smaller children for multiple hours! And I am not *that* old.

                  The supervision problem that OP’s mom is having with a 13 year old is that he will definitely get into trouble if left on his own, as demonstrated by his entire behavior while theoretically supervised, not that he’s not old enough to know better or be safe hanging around alone or outside.

            3. Elle*

              13 is a pretty normal age to be unaccompanied. Maybe this will be a wake up call for mom- she raised a kid that can’t be trusted unsupervised at 13.

              1. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow*

                Yeah, I have no issue with my 11 year old being at home unsupervised for short periods.

          3. Statler von Waldorf*

            You’re comparing apples and oranges. Old enough to be left home alone is legally not the same as old enough that you can’t be sued for child endangerment if you have a duty of care towards the minor. The home is generally considered to be safe for minors to be unattended in a way that the broader world is not.

            In Canada, you would likely be opening yourself up to legal liability if you simply told a minor to leave given these specific circumstances. I would be very surprised if it wasn’t the same in the lawsuit-happy US. That’s why I suggested calling the cops, even with the potential of issues that can result from police escalation.

            1. Lab Boss*

              I’m not trying to argue here but I’m genuinely confused- are you saying that if a 13 year old entered a Canadian business without permission, you can’t simply tell them they need to leave the business and would instead need to call the police to limit liability? I’ll believe you if you say that’s the case, but it seems like it’s disallowing a very standard, normal thing to do if someone enters a business they shouldn’t be in.

            2. Properlike*

              This is not the case. You can’t be held responsible for kids who are there without your consent who are causing problems. Yes, you can tell them to leave, or you can call their adult for them, but you are not responsible for them unless you are expected to be in the first place.

            3. NotAnotherManager!*

              You don’t allow 13-year-olds out in the community without supervision? I live in the land of overinvolved parents, and seeing middle-schoolers walking around town, on the playgrounds, at the library, in the coffee shops, etc. is not unusual. If they are being disruptive in a business, they would be asked to leave. The cops would only be called if they were caught stealing or refused to leave when asked.

              1. Worldwalker*

                I’m trying to remember what the town (extremely low-crime, btw) was where the police chief said, among other things, that a child under 16 should not be permitted outside the house, even in their own yard, because they aren’t strong enough to fight off an attacker.

                1. Elsa*

                  That’s completely nuts and just a baby step away from “women shouldn’t be allowed outside the house alone because they aren’t strong enough to fight off an attacker.”

      6. Peter the Bubblehead*

        It’s highly likely Mom is working her own job and that’s the reason Son/Brother needs a babysitter. It would not surprise me if Mom tells him to simply go to sister’s job all on his own and wash her hands of it. OP (and OP’s boss and co-workers) need to decide now what to do if an unaccompanied minor shows up in the office alone – whether he is related to an employee or not.
        The first time it happens, Boss might simply tell OP to take the rest of the day off and take her brother home. But what do they do when he shows up again the next day and the day after that?
        There has to be a plan in place that everyone agrees to and carries out no matter how harsh or problematic it may become. For example, calling CPS. I’m sure OP does not want to do that, but it may come to a point where it becomes necessary.

        1. Possum's mom*

          Why can’t OP’s mom watch her own child after school? Why is it the expectation for OP to disrupt her job life instead of the child’s mother adjusting HER work schedule to accommodate the afternoons?

          1. boof*

            Sounds from the letter like Mom brought it on herself for not properly putting a stop to sexually explicit and inappropriate behavior so now he’s very reasonably banned from normal after school activities. How the hell is this kid getting exposed to porn?

              1. boof*

                Bleh. IDK I know I found some of the trashy romance novels when I was a teen but I cringe at the thought of middle schoolers with unrestricted internet access and no major adults in their life bothering to tell them what’s really not at all ok. I would absolutely let my kids know what’s inappropriate even if it’s “small stuff” how else are they going to learn.

                1. Movies*

                  “but I cringe at the thought of middle schoolers with unrestricted internet access and no major adults in their life bothering to tell them what’s really not at all ok”

                  I’m cringing with you but uhhhh, I got some bad news for you, hon. A LOT of parents do not know anything about setting up any sort of controls on their kids’ internet access/devices— and some of them don’t want to learn. No matter how easy Apple and Android may make it to set up. (Not a parent so I don’t know how easy the settings are to set up, but I’m around kids a lot and daaaaaamn). They do not care that their 8, 10, 13, even 14 year old having constant, unfettered access to the entire internet is probably as dangerous as giving them a crack pipe or a loaded gun. These are the same type of parents as the OP’s mom. Whoo hoo.

                2. Kiriana*

                  Honestly one reason I’m very glad I don’t have kids is because after working tech support for four years I would find it really hard to find the appropriate line between banning my kids from technology until they’re 18 and being, you know, a reasonable person who also doesn’t want to create a complete disaster when they grow up and finally/suddenly get some control over their own lives. Even a line I consider fairly reasonable (locked down access until 13, lots of discussions about different scenarios, gradual easing of supervision, etc) would probably be considered total helicopter parent type stuff by a lot of people.

              2. Sorrischian*

                Heck, I was a 13 year old girl in the long ago year of 2010 and had been exposed to porn by that point, and could have gotten access to more if I’d wanted. (I did not, however, engage in inappropriate behavior related to that. There’s more going on here than inadequate controls on the brother’s internet access.)

              3. Worldwalker*

                I was exposed to porn as a 13 year old girl decades ago. Childhood is a time of pristine purity only in some people’s imaginations.

                1. Boof*

                  Ok i probably found some about that age too; but i was not exposed to the point that i thought it was a normal thing to do in public/ in front of random peers, parents, etc

              1. LifebeforeCorona*

                Any kid can find porn or graphic violence on their phone with just a few keystrokes. I can and I’m an adult. Most kids have the same kind of phone that I have. My grandkids are 15 and 12 and have parental controls on their phones but many of their friends do not. They’ve been given the appropriate talks but a classmate can still say to them, take a look at this. It’s a scary world out there for kids and parents.

              2. boof*

                N0! I have a 12 year old girl and a 10 year old boy (and a 3 year old for good measure), I think it would be really disturbing to find she was somehow being exposed to porn, and i don’t think another year will change that! We don’t give our kids unrestricted internet access, that’s a recipe for all kinds of disaster – I was a teen once too maybe I got into stuff here and there but no way did I ever make it part of my normal behavior :/ We also talk to them about appropriate/inappropriate behavior etc

                1. Dahlia*

                  I sincerely hope you’re specifically talking about sexual content on the internet, because it is everywhere, and 13 year olds are curious. Many, many of them will seek it out.

                2. Worldwalker*

                  You don’t, but their friends’ parents do.

                  Those kids are just the modern equivalent of the kid who brought in some samples of their big brother’s porn collection for all of us to giggle at under the bleachers.

                  And I grew up fine. Most people do. The problem is the parents, not the porn. And

                3. Eldritch Office Worker*

                  They are past the age where you are the only person policing what they are exposed to

                4. boof*

                  nesting fail – I’m pretty paranoid about unrestricted social media access given I *womp womp womp* picked up someone who would eventually be a pretty scary online stalker sometime late high school (although that evolution took years; started as friend etc etc) – I’m quite aware teens to young twenties are the age predators target. I’m sure my kids could sneak something here or there if they wanted but their computers are in a family/open room, the phones they can borrow have very limited games/access, etc.

            3. Smurfette*

              Unfortunately, many kids have been exposed to porn by that age. And not through lack of effort by the parents to monitor / control what they access online. But that does not automatically translate into sexually harassing one’s classmates.

            5. frogtowner*

              The days of finding your dad’s Playboy magazines are long gone. The typical age that kids (boys and girls) start seeing hardcore internet porn these days is 11– it is easily accessible and available for free on many, many websites. Almost all kids have likely seen the most gross, violent, and misogynistic stuff by the time they are in high school. It’s why something like 70% of girls ages 15-25 have been choked without consent by partners during sex, as choking is now a common, mainstream thing in porn even though it can be quite dangerous in real life. But many boys (and girls) don’t know this, and just imitate what they have seen on their phones.

              Nearly all sex ed comes from porn now, and parents should be talking to kids about its extremely unrealistic (and misogynistic) portrayals from basically 6th grade.

            6. Artemesia*

              Only someone who has never tried to parents troubled child could write this. The mother may have tried to raise this kid — not all kids respond and many teens go of the rails even with a mother and father doing their best. The mother works. What is she to do now with this kid? The options seem to be dump him on the daughter or leave him home alone. That is probably the best option she has at this point.

              The OP/daughter should be giving some careful thought to applying for a job 1000 miles away. Unless she does that this is going to bedevil her for years yet.

              1. Boof*

                My son has had to be on an iep for adhd/impulsive behavior- from the letter lw’s mom is not dealing with inappropriate behavior and all the examples are really sexual- i realize mom has some major struggles like losing dad – but not dealing with problems and maybe unfettered internet access are pretty basic missteps

            7. Nightengale*

              I had a 10 year old patient shown pornography on the phones of slightly older kids on the school bus.. . .

                1. Nightengale*

                  yes it was a real problem and not OK

                  but it’s an example of how a 10 year old could be exposed without something terrible happening in the home as an explanation and unrelated to parents setting or not setting limits and whether or not the parents had explained that it isn’t OK.

          3. Tiger Snake*

            Because OP’s mother still regards her daughter as her child, and therefore doesn’t take her daughter’s job and work seriously.

      7. Throwaway Account*

        This! Came here to say this. He is underage. Tell her you will call the police/social services if she abandons him at your workplace or if he walks there from school on his own. Maybe even call them ahead of time to figure out what your options are.

        And maybe call the school to let them know he cannot walk to your office from school. They might be able to refuse to release him to walk if they know you will not be responsible for him.

        1. Elsa*

          How could the school control where a teenager goes when he leaves school? This isn’t an age where the student needs to be dismissed directly into the care of an adult.

          1. Properlike*

            If they’re a minor, and (for instance), there’s a custodial disagreement, you can 100% tell the school they cannot release their child to the other parent or allow him to leave with another adult. This is why they have emergency contact lists and make adults check in at the desk before they let a student leave during the school day. Sometimes after. I’m talking high school (high school teacher here.)

            1. NotAnotherManager!*

              This is an unusual arrangement, and you’d have to require the child to check out at the office versus just leaving school grounds. This would typically only happen here with a special needs teenager not capable of getting home solo or a special situation like disputed custody or a juvenile justice agreement that requires authorized pickup. No one at our high school checks to see where the vast majority of the 2,500 kids go after the final bell rings unless there are extenuating circumstances – they can get on the school bus, take public transit, walk home, stay for extra curriculars, or walk 5 feet of school grounds and get in whoever’s car they want. The school is not responsible for them once they leave school grounds.

      8. Resentful Oreos*

        I wonder if “call the po-po and report an abandoned minor” would work. This, of course, would make Mom very angry, and I don’t know if OP lives with her or is dependent on her support in some way. In the latter case that would be a bad idea. But as a last resort, if OP is willing to make Mom hopping mad, it might work.

        Otherwise I think OP should talk to her boss and explain what is going on. If Boss is any good they will back OP up. And alert the receptionist. Don’t blame them – Receptionist had no way of knowing what a sneaky and awful person Mom is – but you will be doing Receptionist a favor if you alert them to who Mom is and what she’s about so Receptionist can react accordingly.

        1. Lab Boss*

          If OP was willing to directly oppose the mother and get her thoroughly mad, there are ways she could do that without needing to involve the “call the police” stage. I’ll accept that she knows the situation best and there’s probably a reason she’s not simply going nuclear, but it does sound like in her opinion this still needs some degree of finesse.

            1. Lab Boss*

              OP says they gave a solid “no” but I would assume a full nuclear would involve things like a larger fight or confrontation, limiting/no contact, telling the mother the police/CPS will be called (whether or not OP really intended to do so), etc. To be clear I’m not saying OP should have done those things, that tier of reaction has major consequences, but that they’re comparable to waiting for the problem to show up at work and then calling the police to remove your brother, which is also a major escalation with consequences.

      9. Statler von Waldorf*

        I would suggest calling the police and reporting an abandoned child when and if that happens.

        I hate that I have to say this part, but depending on the country in question and the race of the people involved, this plan might go horribly wrong. I still think it’s probably the best plan, but it is what it is.

        1. Kevin Sours*

          I’m not sure the police are going to be particularly thrilled to be called out on a high school aged individual who isn’t doing anything other than being by themselves.

          1. Statler von Waldorf*

            I’d rather deal with some cops who aren’t particularly thrilled to be there than deal with being charged with child endangerment. I want evidence that I did not have a duty of care towards that minor, and that police report will give me that.

            Because otherwise you know mom is going to lie and say that of course you agreed to watch her child, and if anything at all bad happens to that kid after you cut them loose, you’re so, so, screwed. Best case is tens of thousands in legal fees. Worst case is jail.

          2. Properlike*

            And entering a place of business where he’s not welcome?

            I guarantee you that one conversation with the school will make all of this clear and they will hold mom responsible.

          3. TeaCoziesRUs*

            13 is middle school, not high school. Usually anywhere from 6th to 8th grade, depending on birthday.

            And yeah… I’m going to trust a trustworthy middle schooler a little less than a high schooler, and protect them a bit more. (I have a 12 year old with a great head on her shoulders, whip smart, and kind. I trust HER in the subway by herself. I don’t trust adults around her to do the right thing, and we’re starting to teach her how to handle herself as a teenager now.) I’m going to treat a middle schooler who has shown he is untrustworthy with about as much trust as an average 3rd grader.

            1. Kevin Sours*

              A 13 year old isn’t going to be in the 6th grade unless they’ve been held back. A lot kids will have graduated the 8th grade before they turn 14.

      10. JessHereForTheComments*

        Yeah, she needs to tell mom, “If you drop him off or he walks here anyway, I will call CPS/ the police for child abandonment.”

    8. Bunny Girl*

      Yep. I would loop the boss in because it sounds like Mom will escalate. But I’d also maybe let the receptionist know as well. Tell her not to engage with your mom, or tell her any office policies or your schedule or if you are in the office or anything like that.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        Yeah, I’m a little concerned that a random yahoo called the office and the receptionist gave them information about workplace policies they had no business asking about.

        1. Jackalope*

          I mean, I can see the receptionist thinking that the person was asking because they were considering applying for a job there or something; it’s a reasonable ask in that situation. People who are as manipulative as the OP’s mom tend to know how to manipulate people in friendly ways too, and it would be easy for her to come up with an innocuous-sounding reason to ask this.

          1. Jackalope*

            Forgot to add that not only can 14 year olds be left alone, but they’re also considered (outside of Illinois) to be left alone supervising other children as well, and have reached a certain degree of independence. So not only is he of an age where he doesn’t (or shouldn’t) need a babysitter, he himself is old enough to monitor other kids. (To be clear, given his behavior the last thing I’d want to do is put him alone and in charge of younger kids, but he’s old enough for it.)

            1. Jackalope*

              (Oops! I meant to rely to my other comment about him being old enough to be out by himself. Nesting fail!)

            2. Irish Teacher.*

              This really depends on the kid. As a secondary school teacher, I would say 13 is right on that borderline where yeah, some kids could be trusted to babysit whereas others…I genuinely worry about letting them go to the bathroom because of the mischief they’d get up to unsupervised between my classroom and the toilet.

              And many 13 year olds are too immature to be alone outside. A couple of years ago, our 1st years (12 and 13 year olds) were playing chase while walking home from school and racing across busy roads.

              Kids mature at different rates, even without behavioural problems or family problems. Sometimes, some kids are just a bit slower to develop. And 13 is an age where there can be a particularly wide gap.

          2. JFC*

            +1. Also, I get the impression that this is a small town/small business. It’s not unusual for those to lack comprehensive training or HR support, which may have been the case here. It may also have just been the receptionist’s instinct to be helpful without immediately thinking of negative consequences down the line.

          3. Hannah Lee*

            That’s a good guess as to what happened.

            Also, the boundary crushing aside, the question Mom asked and the answer she got are actually irrelevant to the situation not just for the obvious reason (OP said no it’s not happening) but the Rules-Lawyer side of me would argue that whether or not OP’s employer has a policy that a single parent *could* have their child hang out in the workplace if needed doesn’t apply, because:

            A) OP is not a single parent and
            B) OP’s brother is not her child

            I am so sorry for OP that they have to deal with this, on top of the loss of their father. And I also feel bad for the 13 year old brother who is likely dealing with the father’s death along with a banana pants mom and being a troubled and trouble-making 13 year old all at once. He needs help / an intervention from someone and his mother seems incapable of dealing with that (what with the blame the OP and trying to turf his after school care onto her)

            1. Reality.Bites*

              Unless it’s a very unusual workplace, it’s unlikely the receptionist interpreted the question as “Do teenage children of employees spend hours daily in the office?”

            2. Irish Teacher.*

              I suspect mom did that deliberately, phrased the question in the form most likely to get the answer she wanted. I suspect she knew that “could an employee bring in a teenage sibling they are babysitting?” would be far more likely to get a “no” than the question she asked.

          4. Resentful Oreos*

            Agreed, I would not blame the receptionist; someone as manipulative and bad-intentioned as Mom can be very skilled at sweet-talking front desk staff, especially because the latter can be very busy and not have time to stop and think if this person sounds “off” or not. It might have been posed as an innocent question.

            Definitely alert the receptionist to Mom’s shenanigans though. Receptionist needs to be in the know about what kind of a person Mom is, and how to politely deflect her.

            1. AFac*

              Also assuming that Mom did indeed talk to the receptionist and got that answer as opposed to just saying she did. It’s a bit unclear from the question, but I’ve had people in my life who would make up any story that supported their stance. Then when you touch back with the person who supposedly confirmed the answer, they have no idea what you’re talking about.

          5. Elizabeth West*

            If I had gotten a call like that when I worked the front desk, my first instinct would have been to ask the caller what they were trying to find out, because that’s not a question I would expect to get in the course of my day. Then I would transfer them to HR or my manager, i.e., the Cover-My-Arse department.

            I’m not blaming the receptionist, though; maybe I’ve had more practice at gatekeeping yahoos than they have. It’s just that the question pinged the wtf detector in my brain.

            1. Movies*

              Yeah there’s a lot of context we don’t have. Like others said, it depends on the type of office (for example, a medical office where it’s common for kids to accompany adult parents to appointments), or the mom lying about the circumstances given to the receptionist, the mom lying completely about even calling, etc.

              I’m really hoping the LW doesn’t live with the mom and brother, for starters.

        2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          I assume it was someone calling and asking about their policies generally, rather than asking about a specific employee or situation.

        3. Tuckerman*

          I thought that too, but it wasn’t clear to me whether the LW knows for sure her mom talked to the receptionist, or whether her mom just said she spoke to the receptionist. Or even the context. For example, if it’s a doctor’s office and she just asked, “Can single parents bring kids,” that may have been interpreted as bringing a child to an appointment, not as an employee.

      2. Ms. Eleanous*

        Yep. I would loop the boss in because it sounds like Mom will escalate.
        This.

        I hope you have security at your office, and I would definitely tell the boss the situation, and definitely ask about security.
        Not PC, but this kid is
        very disruptive, and
        a disaster waiting to happen.
        You also can’t bring in your
        pet crocodile or pet python.

        You know all this, but you have a responsibility to your office co-workers to give everyone a heads up NOW.

        1. Worldwalker*

          Having several pet pythons, I guarantee that they would be far better behaved than any child.

      3. the hulk's PTSD*

        The OP needs to loop their boss in yesterday but since the mom will have a comeback for everything, (including that the word “no”), it is absolutely reasonable to say something like, “the receptionist doesn’t have all the details” or “that policy doesn’t apply to non-guardians on a daily basis,” or “that policy is on a case-by-case basis,” etc. Again, the OP shouldn’t have to argue about any of this but since the mom is going to argue anyway, it is absolutely reasonable to NOT let the mom pull out a “Well I called your office and whomever answered the phone said I could so THERE!!!!” defense and just let that stand.

        The OP’s mom has a much bigger issue (which is beyond the OP or anyone else in this letter) though–her son is a damn sexual predator in the making. And it’s quite possible that he was/is the victim of sexual abuse. The mom could get off her lazy ass and do something about that, which is the bare minimum baseline for any halfway decent parent. But clearly, she prefers not to. So maybe calling the police on this kid the first time he’s dumped at the office is the best thing, if only to save his future victims (which could include the OP). And maybe that will finally be the wake up to the OP’s mom, since her kid being banned from after-school activities for sexual harassment wasn’t (seriously, WTF. Like, how bad was it for the school to take the female student’s word that this was happening and say, “okay Junior, no more volleyball or yearbook for you this year”???).

        1. wanda*

          I don’t think he’s been sexually abused. It’s far more likely that he is imitating Andrew Tate and other people on the internet who hold themselves up as role models for boys and who act in deliberately crass, crude, and misogynistic ways. If the mom won’t tell him no, she’s not policing his internet content.

          1. C*

            We absolutely do not have enough information to know either way. This boy’s behavior is deeply troubling, and one possible cause is that he has been abused. This is something that his parents ought to be taking very seriously.

            1. ubotie*

              Unfortunately sometimes, a marker of CSA is that the victim will then abuse others in similar ways. Similar to other types of abuse victims later becoming abusers themselves :-(

              So the fact that the brother sexually harassed a classmate–to the point that the school made him endure consequences–does give me pause. Especially when you factor in the other examples. Yes, they could be “teen boys being gross” BUT…not every teen boy is attention-getting in *that* way. While also escalating it to the point of victimizing a classmate and getting called out for it officially by school officials.

    9. Paris Geller*

      Yeah, this is the only part of Alison’s advice I disagree with, because mom has clearly shown she will cross boundaries and I wouldn’t be surprised if she tries to contact OP’s boss herself. Better for OP to be upfront with boss about what’s going on.

    12. RIP Pillowfort*

      Yeah I think she has to tell her boss. It’s awkward but OP’s mom is pretty clearly escalating the behavior to a point I would be worried she’d just try to drop the kid off.

      I’d lay it out factually. Mom wants OP to watch her brother. OP has said ABSOLUTELY NOT. Mom is not listening and trying to go around OP by calling the receptionist to try to find information to argue the point. You don’t know whether this is going to escalate further, you are standing firm on your no, and discuss what to do.

      As a supervisor this is a huge deal because that receptionist absolutely shouldn’t provide that level of information to a non-employee! I’d immediately try to figure out a plan of action to address this- not blame the employee for having a mother that isn’t listening to reason.

    13. DramaQ*

      I would tell the boss in case mom shows up and just drops off t he kid because after all “They said it is allowed!” that way they can tell the receptionist and security to not let mom and the brother in the building at all.

      It wouldn’t shock me if she did that because she’ll assume OP is now in a position to not tell her no because her brother “has no where else to go”.

    14. Tenebrae*

      Yeah, I’d agree. And I would be very matter of fact that you would find it disruptive; I could see a sympathetic boss thinking they’re helping by saying it would be okay to bring your brother for a bit while your family makes other arrangements.

    15. LaminarFlow*

      Same. I have a meddling/boundary crossing mom. She would have done something like this to me when I was early in my career.

      I would want my manager & the receptionist to know that I don’t support or encourage my mom’s behavior, and they are free to wrap up the call quickly.

      I put my mom on an information diet in my early 20s, which LW might want to consider.

      1. Mommy dearest*

        Frankly, over the longer term, LW ought to consider relocating to another part of the country, particularly if he’s not particularly attached to his hometown. The unhealthy family dynamics are going to seriously degrade LW’s quality of life.

        1. Worldwalker*

          I suspect the LW is a sister, not a brother. People like the mother are more likely to expect their daughters to be their “delegated parent,” deferential and obedient, while excusing anything and everything from their sons because “boys will be boys.”

    16. Kevin Sours*

      I think boss needs to get looped in, at least enough to convey “I’m not with stupid”. Because fairly or not there is a chance that Mom is going to viewed as speaking on behalf of OP and it’s probably best to get ahead of that.

      As for script I would go with truthful but vague: “Mom wants me to watch brother. I said no but for some reason she’s calling here and may do it again even though I told her not to.”

      No need to get into brother’s issues or other family drama.

    19. Skippy*

      Bring it up because the receptionist shouldn’t be discussing staff policies with randos on the phone!

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Correct. This is a really weird question to get from a non-employee and not the kind of information the receptionist should be giving out freely.

      2. metadata minion*

        Why not? I understand that this sort of thing is considered confidential in many offices, but I’ve never understood why. If it’s not asking about a specific employee, why shouldn’t workplace policies of this sort be public information? It would make things much easier for potential applicants, and I’m not seeing the downside to the company.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          As a former receptionist, I can confidently state I have never had an applicant ask me a question like that, and it would sound very weird for someone to randomly call and start off by inquiring about internal policies. There are several possibilities for an incongruous question that comes out of left field, and one of them is that it could be some kind of scam.

          At the least, the protocol should be to politely ask why the caller is asking. If gentle probing didn’t get me the reason for the call, my first instinct would be to put them on hold for a second and check with HR or my manager.

        2. Movies*

          In the context of a job candidate calling about a job opening and wanting to get more info about the company and its policies (all its policies) in the course of applying for a particular role, yes maybe. But that’s still a question that should be fielded by HR and/or the hiring manager.

          But in the context of like, Joe and Jane Random from off the street calling up business to ask about policies not even related to PTO, health insurance, 401(k) plans, etc? No. Weird, very out of left field, so unusual as to hint at something like maybe a scam or social engineering, like Elizabeth West said below.

          if Joe or Jane Random can call up the front desk and get all sorts of information just by asking, then who knows what kind of confidential or sensitive information a hacker, phisher, or scammer could get the same way? Phishing scams go over these scenarios all the time.

    20. agreed*

      agreed – I think it makes sense to be proactive as it will also show your boss you are addressing it. if your mom calls your boss he can back you. might happen anyway but some people like a good sob story and I’ve had bosses I could see not holding the line.

    21. I Have RBF*

      Seriously. Clue your boss in on the whole bit, because I wouldn’t put it past your mom to dump your brother off at your job.

      Plus, I would have some strong words with the receptionist about telling a stranger about company policy about single moms with their kids.

      Also, you need to point out to your mother that you are not a single mother, you have no kids, and that your brother is her kid, her responsibility. You are being parentified, probably have been all of your life. But your brother is not your responsibility, he’s hers.

      Hopefully you have, or will soon, move out. After that, you need to tell that idiot receptionist that you will not accept any contact from your mom or your brother, and that she is not to give them any information about you or about policy. Then you need to go no contact as well. Your family sounds toxic AF.

      1. Worldwalker*

        THIS. Totally this. The LW is not a single mother; her mother is, and it’s the mother’s responsibility to arrange child care.

    22. JSPA*

      Yes.

      1. Boss needs to know about the boundary crossing parent, so she doesn’t waste his staff’s time by invoking you. And warn the receptionist directly.

      2. Mom ideally needs to be told that the receptionist has been instructed not to talk to her.

      3. Mom could be reminded that the legal standing of a parent or guardian is not the same as the legal standing of a sibling, and thus the liability situation also isn’t the same. (Whether that matters in your office, who knows; but it’s a real thing.)

      4. I’d also warn your boss that your brother is a harassment problem waiting to happen, and that no matter how family friendly your boss wants to be, this is not a good plan. (There are some bosses who would–ugh–side with mom over the employee).

    23. Artemesia*

      Both boss and Jane. I am sure Jane was trying to be nice, so she needs to be told that your Mom is a boundary stomper and to please not discuss anything like this with her further.

      Tell Mom that occasionally single mothers have brought kids in in an emergency, no one is baby sitting kids every day after school in the office. and that by contacting your employer she is jeopardizing your job. She will need to make other plans for your brother as you will not have him in your office after school.

      Then have a plan for when he shows up because Mom told him to. My plan would be to drive him to her office and walk him in and let her deal with him. Don’t let him stay even once or there you are.

    24. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      This. Just keep it simple, straightforward. “My mom asked me to watch my brother after school while I’m at work. I was just as surprised as you that she was serious. I told her no, but that’s not stopping her. I will do everything I can to keep her from contacting the office again. Thanks.” Done talking.

    26. Where’s the Orchestra?*

      Mom sounds like the “I refuse to hear the word No with regards to my special precious baby boy” type.

      Loop in the boss – because otherwise Mom will drag him blindly into the mess.

    27. Thomas*

      The boss and the company receptionist. Based on mother’s behaviour I think it’s almost certain that brother will turn up at the office without permission. OP should make it clear in advance that he is NOT babysitting brother at the office and if brother shows up, treat it like they’d treat any other random child.

      Otherwise, it’s likely the company receptionist would welcome brother in and assume he’s OPs responsibility, and then OP gets judged for “not controlling the kid”.

  2. Wingo Staww*

    “why don’t my kids call me anymore?”

    LW, your mother sounds insufferable! What an absurd situation.

    1. ursula*

      Same. LW, if you read AAM regularly I’m sure you’re aware of Captain Awkward’s blog – her “families” and “parents” tags might be pretty useful to you in the coming years. Good luck – you deserve way better than this.

      1. ursula*

        Ugh sorry, this was meant to be a response to A Poster Has No Name below, who said sorry you’re in this situation!

        1. Rotating Username*

          Sorry for the nesting error. :-) I have to agree though–one of the first things that ran through my mind reading this–“Reasons are for reasonable people.”

      2. Duckling*

        Another vote for Captain Awkward – and there’s a search facility to bring up topics like ‘boundaries’ and ‘faaamily’.

      3. Csethiro Ceredin*

        I came here to suggest this too. She has some great scripts for this kind of conversation (the family p[art more than the work part.)

    2. Testing*

      I assume mom is at the end of her tether. She’s a single parent of a barely teenage kid who seems to be going off the rails.

      I can imagine she’d want someone to keep an eye on him in the afternoons, now that he has (very embarrassingly, and possibly criminally) made extracurriculars impossible. She probably doesn’t have the time to do this herself and maybe can’t afford to pay someone else to do it. So I do feel for her.

      OP should still stick to their guns, though!! Which might not be easy if they live with mom, and obviously also care about what happens with the brother. This is a really sad letter.

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Nah, Mom seems to have offloaded parenting to the OP. She doesn’t sound at the end of her tether, she sounds more like not my problem, you figure it out.

        The rule is Single Mothers can bring in children. You are not a single mother, ergo the Rule does not apply to you.

        1. Testing*

          I’d sure be at the end of my tether if my kid acted like this… What makes you feel she sounds like she doesn’t care? How can you tell the difference between that and desperation (leading to misguided expectations directed towards OP)?

          Of course OP should say no, none of the above changes that.

          1. Annony*

            She tells the OP not to be so mean when OP tries to help control the behavior. That isn’t “end of her tether” behavior, that’s opting out of parenting.

            1. Charlotte Lucas*

              If the father passed away a few years ago, she might still be experiencing her own grief and have fallen into a bad pattern with OP’s brother. I’m not saying that what she’s asking for is reasonable or that it isn’t a huge PITA for OP, but that sometimes losing someone makes people less reasonable as parents, spouses, etc.

              I definitely think OP should hold her ground, but mom and brother could probably benefit from family counseling.

              1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

                Mom could still be experiencing her own grief. But that is a Mom problem that is being offloaded onto OP. Just like the letter from earlier today where the boss yelled at his employees because of health issues. The health issues are not the employees problem to address, nor is it OPs job to take on parenting because Mom refuses to address her own issues.

                Or if Mom wants OP to take on parenting – let her parent. Up to and including putting the kid in therapy and imposing consequences for behavior.

              2. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

                This is the first comment I’ve read expressing any concern for the welfare of the little brother. His mother is a hot mess, he’s lost his father, and he’s acting out big time.

                This kid needs help. Unfortunately, the mother has assigned OP give it to him, and that’s both way too much to ask and asking the wrong person to provide it. Does OP’s employer provide employee counseling? OP is in a terrible position, and could use some good advice. If not, and if OP has access to other counseling services, it might help OP deal with this impossible situation.

                1. Charlotte Lucas*

                  This! Mom’s problem isn’t OP’s to solve, but if there’s EAP or counseling available through work, that might help OP get tools to be able to say No without causing A Huge Thing.

                  This just sounds like such a hard situation.

          2. duinath*

            I have no sympathy for mom at all. Partly because I suspect OP has been parentified, which is abusive, but even if I’m wrong about that, she is incredibly entitled and off loading her responsibility to her child on OP, who is also her child, while also tying their hands wrt handling his behaviour.

            I want you to especially take a look at the bit where she told OP single moms can take their kids into the office.

            Do you see the problem, there?

            OP is not a single mom. They’re not a mom at all, as far as I know, and they certainly are not their brother’s mom.

            I would like to remind OP that when people are pushing you to do things you don’t want to do, especially in your personal life, no is a complete sentence. Reasons are for reasonable people.

            Unreasonable people, when given a reason, will only argue with it. You tell mom you can’t bring brother to work, she calls your work and “proves you wrong”.

            Just say no. Don’t argue, don’t explain, just no. Walk away. Hang up the phone. No.

            And definitely check out captain awkward if you haven’t already.

            1. Grizabella the Glamour Cat*

              I’m with you on all of this, including on the parentification issue. Mom is way out of line. Whatever problems Mom is having with Little Brother are hers to solve, and trying to dump her problems in LW’s lap (and interfering with LW’s job in the process) is wildly inappropriate.

          3. Insert Clever Name Here*

            Because when I am at the end of my tether with my children’s behavior, I do not dump them on my family members? A “hey, I’m overwhelmed, do you think you could watch Kid for an hour” is one thing but when they say “no” I don’t call their office to enquire about children being allowed. I act like the adult I am and figure out another solution.

            1. Testing*

              It seems some commenters here are very sure of how they’d act all reasonable if they were in a desperate situation. Good for you.

              1. Admin Lackey*

                I agree that people often make sweeping statements about how they would act in XYZ situation, but come ON, the mom’s actions are so beyond they pale. Moreover, mom isn’t the one who wrote it.

                1. Testing*

                  Taking the OP at their word does not mean we can’t feel compassion with anyone else.

                  As mentioned, this doesn’t change the advice to the OP (to not agree to this under any circumstance).

              2. Insert Clever Name Here*

                You bet your hat I’m sure that I’d act all responsible because I’ve been there and I did “act all responsible.”

                I can — and do — have compassion for OP’s mom. It sounds like their family has been through a hard time and is obviously having difficulty navigating this new hard time. I know how hard it was finding aftercare for my elementary-aged child who is neurodivergent and requires additional oversight over what is generally provided for their age/grade, so I can fully sympathize with a parent who does not have an aftercare situation for their child (even if no neurodivergence or other extenuating circumstances are present).

                But.

                Feeling compassion for someone doesn’t mean they are allowed to do whatever they want. Feeling compassion for someone doesn’t mean you can’t say “oh that’s not ok” when a parent is dumping responsibility for Child 2 onto Child 1.

                1. NOT The BEES!*

                  this!! i have an ND child with significant behavioral problems (and it sucks when people assume it’s my bad parenting… especially when they see me purposely pick my battles to avoid a demand -avoidance meltdown, etc). The problem of his supervision is mine to solve. not his older siblings’ or anyone else other than my husband’s. (and definitely not when he’s at work!)

              3. Worldwalker*

                I’m a reasonable person, so I don’t make unreasonable demands on other people. I have literally decades of experience in doing this. So yes, I do know how I’d act. I haven’t experienced this exact situation, but I have experienced others quite dire, I know how I acted then, and it is highly unlikely that I’d change the entire pattern of my life now; it’s too ingrained.

          4. Festively Dressed Earl*

            She’s framing her daughter as a “single mom” both in her questions about OP’s work policy and in her behavior, and there’s no regard for OP indicated anywhere in her letter. OP’s mom doesn’t care, at least not about her older child.

          5. Rex Libris*

            To me, trying to order one of her children to care of her other child is intrinsically the action of someone who just wants the problem to go away, not someone who wants to find a workable solution.

          6. Resentful Oreos*

            I think maybe if OP wants to do something to help Mom and that won’t endanger her job, she could refer Mom (and brother) to family counseling or some other kind of mental health services. Depending on the family’s income, and location, this might be hard to find, but there surely has to be something. Sometimes graduate psychology departments offer sliding-scale services with grad students who need to complete their supervised internships, and these people can be surprisingly effective therapists.

      2. RC*

        With the caveat that I know there are scheduling/waitlist hurdles (and “get a teen boy to do anything” hurdles), based on the behaviors described here, I think one of brother’s after-school activities should be therapy.

        I 100% expect he’ll just show up at the office one day anyway, better to loop boss in now. Alison’s wording is good.

      3. CowWhisperer*

        You are filling in a ton of assumptions.

        Mom hasn’t used FLMA (which works well for providing supervision for a teenager with a conduct disorder) while getting him into therapy.

        She is expecting her daughter to be a de facto parent to her son – but that’s not how this works.

        She undermines her daughter’s previous attempts to set limits with her brother while telling the daughter to try harder. That’s insane.

        She called her daughter’s work, asked questions about single parent childcare in emergencies then upbraided her daughter for being unaware of the policies. That’s unhinged behavior since her daughter isn’t a mother.

        It’s not surprising that a self-absorbed, entitled woman raised an entitled son. It’s also not the daughter’s problem to solve.

        1. Mommy dearest*

          She is expecting her daughter to be a de facto parent to her son

          How do we know LW is female?

          1. Jane Anonsten*

            AAM frequently defaults to “she/her” pronouns to push back against the very long history of using “he/him” as the default, and many commenters choose to do so as well.

            But since you brought it up…you used “he” in your other comment. How do we know LW is male?

      4. Elizabeth West*

        I agree this family probably needs help, but shoving the kid off on the OP while they’re trying to work is not gonna cut it.

      5. Worldwalker*

        I have no sympathy for the mother.

        She has decided that the responsibility for child care for the very problematic son she raised should fall on her daughter. She is more than willing to risk her daughter’s job for this. She demands that her “memememe!!!” should take precedence over the LW’s “no.” She didn’t even ask the LW for suggestions; she ordered her to be responsible for her brother.

        No sympathy here.

    3. Baunilha*

      I really hope OP can get a therapist to help her deal with her mom and encourage her to draw firm boundaries. (And go no contact if the mom decides to trump them anyway)
      This already sound like a toxic situation on itself, but the fact that it’s now leaking into OP’s professional life… OP, do what you need to do to protect your job and, more importantly, your mental health.

  3. The Original K.*

    To Mom: “You don’t have to like it. You do have to accept it. I’m not discussing this further.” And then really do not discuss it further.

    Alison’s script for your boss is a good one, just to make him aware of the situation in case your mother tries anything else. Good luck!

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      this. Just for matter of fact – this is not happening, it will not be discussed further, including with my office.

      Then if she tries to bring it up again, say, this is not up for discussion. Repeat as necessary.

      If she drops him at your office and drives away, you need to call her immediately and say “you left him here, either come get him or I will call social services to pick him up.” Then do it. I know that sounds harsh but you Cannot Fix your brother and your mother. It’s not your job to do so.

    2. Grumpy old lady who is WONDERFUL!*

      I would go as far as telling mom that I spoke with my boss. He said absolutely not, and he will call CPS if the kids is dropped off without authorization.

      1. Grumpy old lady who is WONDERFUL!*

        Maybe calling the police, rather than CPS, is a better option. Then the police can call CPS or the mother, or whatever. If possible, OP should not even show her face or be the one to call the police.
        If mom says anything, “mom, I warned you that my employer would not allow it and would call the authorities.

      2. Bilateralrope*

        Better to warn the boss if the LW is doing that.

        Just so the boss knows to go right to calling CPS/police should the child be dropped off there.

    1. Sara without an H*

      Yes, it’s a sad situation, but not LW’s to solve. Caving to Mom and letting the little brother stay with LW at their office wouldn’t be a viable long-term solution, anyway. (At least, it wouldn’t be if I were the manager…)

    2. Sara without an H*

      And LW — stay strong! It’s brutally unfair that your mother has landed you in this situation, but it’s NOT YOUR FAULT. None of this is your fault. Repeat that until you believe it.

      I agree with Alison that it would be a good idea to give your manager a heads-up about the situation. It would be beyond awkward if your mother showed up with your brother in tow and tried to drop him off for you to “look after.”

      Several commenters have wondered whether you live at home. If you do, please do your best to find other housing options asap.

      Jedi hugs, and please send us an update.

  5. Simon Rogers*

    In summary, say no and don’t explain. If she mentions it again say “If you raise this subject again I will stop talking to you and leave every time you do it.”

    1. Witch*

      Absolutely. People who are raised by unreasonable parents (me included!) tend to fall into the trap of constantly searching for the PERFECT way to lay down a boundary. But that will never happen. There will never be a magic blend of words to make your mother understand.

      So now it’s, “no,” ad nauseum and if she’s upset then you let her be upset. She will whine and cry and make you feel like a horrible daughter, but those are her feelings to feel and you shouldn’t try to coddle her by giving in.

      She cannot make you do anything you don’t want to do. You’re an adult. Just repeat the line from Labyrinth: You have no power over me.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yes — and it’s really important to remember that you don’t need to persuade the other person to accept/buy into your boundary. Your boundaries are things YOU do, not things they do. (For example, ending the conversation and hanging up, going home, etc.) So you have 100% control over your boundaries regardless of what they do.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          And that doesn’t mean it won’t be painful for you to set those boundaries; it may be in the moment, especially after a lifetime of being taught you need to accommodate the other person however they want. But in the long run it will be less painful than staying enmeshed in dysfunctional dynamics.

          1. A Pocket Lawyer*

            This. And, I have found that the people who get the most upset when you set perfectly reasonable boundaries are the exact people who would trample all over them and then some without a second thought.

          1. gyrfalcon17*

            Hard, but still there are possibilities. Leaving the house and going for a walk. Going to her room, latch on the inside, headphones. Or even if it’s a one room loft, refusing to answer any further. It’s awful if OP can’t physically get away from Mom during Mom’s verbal lashing out, but the fundamental principle of “the answer is No, and I’m done engaging on this topic” remains.

          2. Festively Dressed Earl*

            That’s what I was thinking. OP may even still be a minor themselves; there are many high school students who have part-time office jobs, especially those who are taking dual-enrollment college courses instead of standard high school ones.

          3. A Pocket Lawyer*

            Yes, I feel like this is important information that was missing from OP’s letter. If OP still lives at home, it could make things much harder. I hope this is not the case.

          4. MsM*

            If Mom’s going to force OP to come up with an office-wide strategy for dealing with further attempts to get around OP’s “no,” OP might as well ask if anyone knows anyone looking for roommates while they’re at it.

          5. Jackalope*

            If that is the case, I would also encourage the OP to consider whether her mom is trying to sabotage her employment. Especially if she’s younger and still living at home, her mom might want to do anything she can to make sure the OP remains dependent on her so she has few choices other than watching her brother. Or she might think that the OP’s true job is watching her brother, and her “little job” can go by the wayside if the mom wants it to.

            OP, if this sounds at all like it could be a possibility, do what you can to stop her from that. Captain Awkward, mentioned above, has some good ideas about getting free from controlling parents. If you’re over 18, make sure your mom isn’t on your bank account (or start a new account at a bank where your mom doesn’t bank so she can’t get access). Get and keep control of important documents so if you get ready to move out you don’t have to fight for them or leave without. Etc. Again, Captain Awkward has good advice on this sort of thing and I encourage you to check her out. But if there’s a way in which you’re financially dependent on your mom, make sure she can’t force you to stay in that space.

            This might all be off, of course. But it’s a common enough dynamic with people in situations like the one you’re in with your mom and brother that I wanted to make sure to mention it.

            1. Jellyfish Catcher*

              Great ideas.
              I’d not only get the documents, but keep them elsewhere than the mom’s house: a trusted friend’s parents could keep them, along with bank statements sent there as well.

              I say that, as a mom, who provided help for a “extra” child who needed some support. He “stopped by” one morning, got breakfast and a sack lunch and was fed for years on school mornings. I never met the parent.

          6. Thinking*

            From everything in the letter, I really have the feeling LW still lives at home. Hey, LW, don’t be involved in brother’s discipline at all! Not your job, sweetie. Good luck.

          7. Reality.Bites*

            An easy part of setting the boundary in this case, is that no matter what OP agrees to, their office is not going to allow their brother to come every day, despite their mother’s willful misinterpretation of a misleading question asked of an employee not in a policy-making position.

            Shorter: OP could cave to mom 100% and it’s still never happening.

            1. lyonite*

              Right. No matter what the misinterpreted answer really meant, if a disruptive preteen started showing up regularly at any even moderately functional workplace, that would stop shortly, either by making the employee turn them away, or firing the employee.

        3. Crcala*

          So true Alison! It took more a long time to realize this about boundaries, but once I understood this fact it changed everything. Maybe you should link to this comment every time a question comes up about boundaries because I think you explain this really well.

          1. Saturday*

            Agree! A light went on for me the first time I read this on AAM. People say, “I set boundaries, but the other person stomped all over them, so it’s not worth trying again,” but that’s because people are used to thinking of getting the other person to accept boundaries, rather than focusing on what they themselves can do in the situation.

            1. BlueCanoe*

              It took me a really long time to understand this. Googling “difference between boundary, request, and demand” still helps me when I need a refresher.

              It also helps when people try to weaponize boundaries eg. “you’re not respecting my boundaries because you’re not doing XYZ” when “XYZ” is actually a demand.
              I could see OP’s mom trying to say that one of her “boundaries” as a parent is that OP has to watch little bro, which is a demand (and an unreasonable one).

        4. cosmicgorilla*

          Alison, I think boundaries would make a great main post, whether you write it, or whether you bring someone in as a guest to underscore the importance. While LW wrote in about it being a family issue, we definitely see folks with boundary issues in work settings.

          Too many people think that setting boundaries means “I tell them they can no longer do x, and they will comply.” And then when person does x, the “boundary setter” gets upset that “they trampled all over my boundaries.”

          No! As you called out, the boundary is what YOU do. They do x, you walk away. They do x, you change the conversation. Ad nauseam. You don’t need them to cheerfully accept your boundaries, as they most likely won’t. And they will push back. But you have to keep doing your thing.

          As I’m typing this, maybe the good Captain would be a great guest, as she has such amazing scripts on when people inevitably protest and push back boundaries.

          1. Chauncy Gardener*

            YES! To this whole thread about boundaries. I hope the OP is able to take this onboard. Good luck, OP! You are not alone!

          2. old curmudgeon*

            Alison and Jennifer teamed up to answer questions together a few years ago, and it was both excellent reading and downright hilarious how they both said the same thing to just about every question, just each in her own phrasing. I’d love to see another collaboration like that again if the stars align!

        5. Aggretsuko*

          As someone who deals with this kind of thing, nobody ever seems to really have advice as to how to handle situations where people won’t accept/buy into boundaries though. Sometimes you can’t be nice about it. Sometimes you have to declare full on WAR against them and do things that make you uncomfortable, make you feel “mean,” come off as mean, etc. You will probably have to escalate your own behavior past what you want to do, hurt Mom’s feelings, and then have to deal with Mom’s feelings and then her guilting you over the brother.

          I will note that if Mom refuses to listen to her children, she might listen to someone else she considers to be an authority figure, i.e. OP’s boss. I don’t think that’s great for a work relationship, but since OP’s mom is going over OP’s head as is, OP’s boss needs to be involved.

          1. Judge Judy and Executioner*

            Boundaries are for you, not the other person. Unreasonable people will almost never accept or buy into the boundaries you have set. You can not control other people. You do not have to declare war, you can calmly and politely state a fact “I do not allow others to talk to me in that way” and leave or end the conversation. You don’t have to escalate and be mean, although it might FEEL mean, it is kinder to be clear upfront on what you will or will not do.

            In this situation, saying, “No, Mom, I can’t babysit bro at work, and I will change the subject or leave if you ask me again,” and then following through and changing the subject or leaving if her mom brings it up is how boundaries work. She can still ask and guilt, but OP would need to stand up to her mom to enforce the boundary.

            1. Witch*

              ^Absolutely.
              My dad wants to call me every day and have drawn out emotionally fraught conversations where he consistently seeks my validation that he’s a good father and I love him. I will only speak to him twice a week, for no more than 20 minutes.

              Does this upset him? Yes. But I give him the grace to BE upset about it. I don’t try to convince him of his own feelings, but I also don’t soothe them for him by giving into his anxiety. Because for the past 30 years I have told him I love him and shown him that I love him. Yet for whatever reason on his own side he can’t just internalize that, so my time and emotional bandwidth has strict boundaries,

            2. inksmith*

              And it’s OK if you can’t do it calmly. My dad ended up screaming at me when I visited the week before Christmas, because I didn’t think his joke was funny. I yelled back that no-one speaks to me like that and I was leaving, had a sobbing panic attack, and then drove three hours home.

              I’m not proud of the yelling, and I wish I didn’t cry every time I get upset, but it was the best I could do in the situation. He won’t change, unfortunately – he’ll probably get worse next time I see him – but it got me out of the situation. If that’s the best you can do, it’s OK.

              1. Cats Ate My Croissant*

                My sympathies. I cry when I’m upset or angry or frustrated… which makes me even MORE upset and angry and frustrated, lather rinse repeat. It’s like my emotions just overflow into my tear ducts and it’s frustrating as hell, especially when I then get chucked into the “hysterical female, do not take seriously” box.

          2. cosmicgorilla*

            Aggretsuko, the advice is that you don’t NEED the person to buy into your boundaries. You don’t need them to accept it. Heck, they probably won’t, not at first. The boundary is what YOU do. They do a thing, you walk away. They keep doing the thing, you keep walking away. Or you change the conversation. Or you say, “I am not discussing this.” And you keep disengaging. Time and time again.

            If your aim is to get them to accept your boundary, to like it, to not be upset about it, you are going to fail. These are not the goals you are after.

            You teach other people how to treat you. Walk away enough times, they will learn that doing x behavior doesn’t get the response they want. You state your boundary and then don’t take action yourself, they learn their actions have no consequences.

            The other advice, for boundaries and many other situations, is that you are not responsible for their feelings. You are not responsible for their feelings. They choose how they respond to something you said or did. They clearly did not care about your feelings when they did the thing, so why are you so worried about theirs? And honestly, you likely didn’t hurt their feelings…you hurt their pride, and they’ve mentioned “feelings” as a way to shame you into submitting back into your hold behaviors.

            But even if their feelings were truly hurt, they will recover. And their hurt feelings don’t outweigh your need for a safer space.

      2. SHEILA, the co-host*

        Someone brought up the Captain Awkward quote yesterday and this is a good place to repeat it. “Reasons are for Reasonable People.” OP, Simon and Witch are 100% correct. An explanation or justification is going to mean nothing to her because she isn’t being reasonable. It’s going to have to be just “no,” and then be prepared to let her be upset.

  6. Chad H*

    No is a complete sentence.

    If you give a reason, you give something for them to latch on to that they can “fix” (sales folk call this “objection handling”). You saw this when she phoned your work. When you run out of reasons to say no, you’re cornered into a yes.

    So just say no, close the door, leave the room, end the discussion.

    1. Archi-detect*

      it is also practiced by guys who don’t get the hint that the the girl is not interested, and that has been me before understanding the situation

  7. not like a regular teacher*

    I would definitely NOT tell your mom he can come there during “rare emergencies” – she’s already shown she can’t respect your boundaries, and I suspect if you offered her this carve-out there’d be weekly (if not more) “emergencies.” A clear no is better in this situation!

    1. Shrimp Emplaced*

      Yes, for sure this — just see the above post that No is a complete sentence.

      Though I would love a colleague’s kid who brought me snacks. Snacks!

    2. Silver Robin*

      That was my thought too; absolutely no bending the rule. I have no idea what the home/school logistics situation is, but a 13 year old is often considered old enough to hang out at home alone for a few hours. If Mom is not okay with that, she can pay for a babysitter.

      1. The Original K.*

        I was babysitting at 13. Roster of clients. It sounds like the brother has some maturity and behavioral issues though – which I’d bet would worsen in an office, because what 13-year-old boy wants to hang out in an office?

      2. Ama*

        Unfortunately in some US states, 13 actually isn’t old enough to legally stay home alone these days (which is ridiculous in my opinion) but regardless none of this is OP’s problem. Mom has refused to parent brother, brother’s been kicked out of his after school activity, Mom needs to deal with the consequences.

        1. chocolate lover*

          The legality only matters if OP is willing to report it.

          At 13, I was watching my young brother and infant brother while my mom was out partying until odd hours. In addition to after school for the 6 yo.

          No one was ever going to say or do anything about it.

            1. Jessica*

              Illinois resident here, and the law doesn’t actually prohibit minors under age 14 from staying home alone. The law states that a neglected minor is defined as:
              “any minor under the age of 14 years whose parent or other person responsible for the minor’s welfare leaves the minor without supervision FOR AN UNREASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME without regard for the mental or physical health, safety or welfare of that minor…”

              So as long as the time home alone is “reasonable” (which depends on circumstances and the regard shown for the health and safety of the minor), it’s fine.

              It’s a pet peeve of mine, because people like to complain that the IL gov’t is overreaching parental authority and wrapping kids in bubble wrap or something, when there isn’t actually any age limit on the books.

              1. Elizabeth West*

                Yeah, being alone after school for a few hours in a warm house/apartment with TV and food and a phone is not unreasonable.

                – a former latchkey kid

                1. NotAnotherManager!*

                  Shoot, that was the best part of my day as the family introvert – house to myself, quiet, control of the TV/stereo. I was also responsible for having dinner on the table when everyone else came home and did a lot of dancing around the kitchen to music so loud I’m sure the neighbors could hear it in their backyard.

        3. Selina Luna*

          Illinois is the only state that requires kids not to be home alone at 13. The law there says 14 is the minimum age. Delaware and Colorado allow kids to be home alone at 12, and everywhere else is younger than that in the United States.
          This is what the law says, but we all know that police enforcement of the law is uneven at best and tends to be harsher on people living in poverty and minorities.
          However, behavior issues are at stake here, which changes things. This 13-year-old is verging on legally enforceable territory.
          I’m a teacher, not a lawyer, but getting kicked out of an after-school enrichment program for behavior is a big deal and would cause the school to begin looking at the family. Schools are allowed to require therapy for students, and even if the school doesn’t, if I were this child’s teacher, I would recommend it to the parent- both family therapy and individual therapy for the child.
          The sibling is saying the parent is effectively unevenly parenting, and that’s true, but that alone wouldn’t result in behavior this extreme. Something is going on with the kid that requires professional help.

          1. Selina Luna*

            Someone below pointed out that a lot of this behavior (the inappropriate talk at the zoo, for example) is typical of 13-year-olds, and that’s true. However, sexually harassing a classmate to the point of removal from an extracurricular is outside of what might be ordinarily expected and should be addressed with a professional.

          2. Strive to Excel*

            Depends if this after-school program is actually run through the school or through a 3rd party. LW just says “extracurriculars” which could be a wide range of things. Could be the local YMCA. Could be something officially through the school. I know in my area very few extracurriculars were officially through the school in the middle and high school range; it was sports and clubs, neither of which was a regular re-occurring everyday thing. If you wanted after school care for your kids you had to arrange that separately.

      3. Typity*

        Mom may also be dimly aware enough to know *this* 13-year-old cannot be left home alone. He might not leave her a house to come back to.

        That, however, is not LW’s problem. He’s her mother’s kid and Mom has to figure out how to deal with him.

      4. doreen*

        I suspect Mom’s issue is not whether it’s illegal for the 13 year old to stay home alone but rather fear of what the 13 year old will do if he’s unsupervised – which may be a reasonable fear but it doesn’t make it the LW’s responsibility to let the brother spend the afternoon at their office. It’s Mom’s problem to solve , not the LW’s.

      5. Peter the Bubblehead*

        It sounds to me like mom (justifiably) does not want to leave son home alone, so hiring a caregiver appears to be the only viable, legal solution.

    5. MassMatt*

      Came to say this. Just stick with “No”, the mom will overstep on any opening.

      Brother sounds awful, no wonder he is running out of options, but why is taking care of him a sibling’s responsibility?

    6. Sparkles McFadden*

      I yelled “No!” out loud when I read that. Saying anything besides NO! or “That’s not possible” will be interpreted as part of a negotiation.

    10. AnonInCanada*

      This! If OP gives an inch, mommy dearest will take a yard. Every day will be an “emergency,” and OP will likely be jeopardizing their job because of it. Mommy had the kid; she can take care of him.

      Who wants to bet this parentification has always been happening? Does OP still live with her mother and brother? Hopefully not, because this becomes a lot bigger problem if OP still does.

  8. Antilles*

    You can say, “It’s permissible in rare emergencies but not regularly.”
    No, no, absolutely not. Do not say this or pre-emptively offer this. Even in the context of otherwise holding firm, you do not want to crack open the door by even admitting that it’s technically possible, because that just leads to further arguments where your mom is going to argue about what constitutes a “rare emergency”. Mom might even try to invent “emergencies” just to push your boundary.
    Just say that it’s not possible and leave it at that. If mom tries to argue, you tell her nope gotta go bye and hang up the phone.

    1. Rotating Username*

      Seconded–I hardly ever take issue with any of Alison’s advice, but absolutely do not entertain saying this or anything like it. Give no inches, it’s guaranteed she’ll take the mile.

    2. Annony*

      Yep. I would focus on “I’m not a single mother and he is not my son” if OP feels the need to address the receptionist’s answer at all.

    3. Ellen*

      I don’t see this in the post — was it edited out?

      As it reads now, it sounds like Alison is saying that the office’s POLICY might be for rare emergencies, not that OP should tell their mom that.

      1. Antilles*

        It got edited out yeah, the original included that as something OP could say as an explanation but based on the thread just above mine, it looks like Alison removed that.

    4. Gudrid The Well-Traveled*

      OP, I would assume that your mom will find a way to dump your brother on you at work and run so you “have to” accept it and forever care for him at work. Then make a plan for what you will do and how your office might be able to back you up. Moms like yours can be awfully resourceful when they’re trying to get their way.

      I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Hang in there!

  9. Viki*

    No is a complete sentence. No needs no justification. Which I am sure, you very much know already.

    Practical things: Tell your boss, potentially HR about the situation so you’re covered all policies.

    Have your mother on the no list. No information about you, the company etc gets to be told to her. The reception should be trained on stonewalling that-and should never have answered internal policies in the first place.

    You can decide if this is needed, but have in your back pocket, perhaps a way to ban your brother/mother from your job site.

    And, I admittedly would have laughed at the zoo incident. That seems the most innocent of all those transgressions.

    1. bamcheeks*

      All of them sounded like standard 13yo boy except the sexually harrassing a female classmate. 13yos think sex is funny and are super annoying and inappropriate about it: this is extremely widespread, and it’s why we say, “what, are you thirteen??!” if an adult does stuff like that. But victimising a classmate is different and much nastier.

      BUT ALSO that’s why 13 year old kids are not welcome in people’s workspaces! Hold firm, LW!

      1. Rara Avis*

        Such a good point. All the other examples sound like normal, frustrating 13 year old behavior. (I’ve taught middle school for 30+ years.) Bad decision making, boundary pushing, etc. I would hope that the school has the resources to work with the mother/push her to realize that the sexual harassment is a serious issue and needs to be addressed before the consequences get more serious for the son than just exclusion from after-school activities. It sounds like OP is being pushed into a parental role without parental authority (like so many of the posters here who are supposed to manage people without the authority they need to actual do it).

      2. Junior Assistant Peon*

        I’m pleasantly surprised that the school took his abusive behavior seriously. When I was in middle school, no one would have given a shit.

        1. Tea Rocket*

          Same, though it also could be a sign that his behavior was so egregious that ignoring it wasn’t an option.

          1. RVA Cat*

            This, and it sounds like he could eventually get expelled or arrested if it continues.
            The kid needs therapy, but he also needs accountability.

          2. anonymous here*

            You’d be surprised at how egregious behavior can be if the school administration is spineless and too stupid to realize that cutting off extracurriculars is not a sufficient response to sexual harassment. That’s a lawsuit right there.

            My pop was a high school principal. Sexual harassment? That kid would have been gone yesterday — certainly suspended, very likely expelled.

        2. Selina Luna*

          I’m a teacher, and I’m feeling awfully cynical right now, so: we don’t know how long the behavior went on before it WAS taken seriously. The person or people this teenager was harassing may have felt unsafe for weeks or months before the kid did something egregious enough for the school to act.

      3. Dawn*

        In my personal experience, the sexual harassment is also a standard 13yo boy thing, but there you are.

        1. bamcheeks*

          I think it’s not unusual, but it’s qualitatively different from making sex jokes that don’t victimise people and should be treated differently by the adults in his life.

        2. JB*

          If he’s been banned from extracurriculars for it then it’s crossed a line even by what might be expected of a 13 year old boy. He’s not been corrected for it because the only authority figure he might listen to doesn’t bother to. And this shouldn’t be OP’s problem, yet the person who let it become a problem is trying to do exactly that.

          1. New Jack Karyn*

            This kid does not respect his mother. He is not going to listen to her. He needs someone with more of a spine to tell him to cut the shit.

            None of this is OP’s problem.

      4. Tiger Snake*

        Arguably even a case of harassment could be “normal” depending on how you want to use the term. 13-year-olds are impulsive, dumb and run on herd mentality – it’s very easy for them to just go a step too far in heat of the moment.

        But that’s something a school would also be very familiar with. The fact they actually chose to ban him from extra curriculars is the one alarm ringing in my head, because I don’t think that would happen unless it was serious or systematic.

        1. Grith*

          Exactly. The school knows what is “13 year old boy normal”, probably more than any one parent. The fact they decided his actions went beyond that is absolutely worth an alarm – and should probably have triggered therapy or similar. Although that’s not OP’s call to make, because as others have correctly noticed, she’s not her brother’s mother!

    2. Bella*

      In a way focusing on whether or not this kid obnoxious is almost beside the point (with the exception of the sexual harassment a lot of this stuff comes across as teenagers pushing the boundaries in a way which, while his mum should be keeping an eye on, isn’t in itself anything other than inappropriate). He could be the most well-behaved little cherub in the history of mankind: if OP doesn’t feel happy with being responsible for a teenager while they’re on the clock, that should be enough.

    3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Some of it was funny. Except when its a pattern here. If it was just the Zoo incident or just the making the toys say porn (cmon we all would have thought of that, at probably made our talking things swear). but coupled with sexual harassment means this kid needs serious help. Help he won’t get if Mom refuses to see the problem.

      OP you absolutely have to stand firm on this. Having a child who was banned for sexual harassment hang out in the workplace would expose the company to so much liability. Obviously you can’t tell your boss this. But knowing this will help you be firmer with your mother. You need this job and cannot lose it because she is unwilling to parent.

      1. learnedthehardway*

        This was my thought too. OP, another reason to flat out refuse to have your brother in the office is because your mother has got to be forced to deal with his issues. He’s on a very bad path right now, and needs some serious correction before he does something that wrecks his and another person’s life.

      2. boof*

        yes I agree, there are some serious flags here that something is very wrong somewhere, and I doubt it’s the 13 year old’s fault (how can it be), especially if mom just ignores/coddles these problems! I feel bad for the kid that he’s not getting taught better things are only going to get worse (not OPs fault either but bleh)

  10. YA Author*

    Yeah, I would not involve my manager at all. I would stop hedging and using excuses and be very firm with my mom. “I will not be watching Bob after school. You need to figure out a way to have him supervised with limits on his Internet access and realize that your lax parenting is causing him significant issues, but I will not be involved.”

    I would also make it clear that calling my work was absolutely bananapants and unacceptable.

    1. Velawciraptor*

      Given that mom is involving people at the office on her own, she absolutely needs to loop her manager in, if only as preemptive damage control.

    2. Clorinda*

      OP does need to loo the receptionist in at the very least. tell her to treat it like a stalking situation, do not give mom any info, do not let her leave the kid.

    3. DramaQ*

      I would loop in the manager because it is supposed to be that if a random person is calling about things like the mom did the receptionist is supposed to say they are not allowed to give out that information to non-exmployees.

      What if it is an abusive ex who is calling to find out if the kids are there while mom is working? What if it is a situation where someone plans to abandon their kids?

      She doesn’t need to write a novel about what is going on but she should tell her manager the basics and that the receptionist gave out information about company policy that she didn’t want her mom to have without even bothering to ask who was on the other end of the phone.

    4. iglwif*

      I think it’s important to loop the manager in because OP’s mom has already demonstrated a willingness to get in touch with OP’s workplace. No reasonable person would do this! But she already has, which means it’s very possible she’ll do it again, and perhaps not stop at the receptionist. And if she does, it’s better for the manager to be forewarned and not surprised by it.

      OP’s not asking her manager for help in enforcing her entirely reasonable decision. To put it in terms of a RACI matrix, OP is not making her manager responsible or accountable, or even consulting them, but is keeping them informed.

  11. Yikes*

    FWIW I would also ask the receptionist not to answer questions about office policies from strangers/family members! This isn’t information that an outsider needs or has a right to know, and could have harmful ramifications for folks in abusive relationships, dealing with stalking, etc.

      1. Suz*

        My guess is the receptionist assumed the question was coming from someone who was considering a job there.

        2. mango chiffon*

          Shouldn’t that question then be posed to HR if it was someone considering a job? What if it was an estranged ex-spouse looking to know their child’s whereabouts. I think a receptionist should avoid sharing that kind of information.

        3. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Still, the receptionist shouldn’t be fielding that kind of question for applicants.

          1. Annie E. Mouse*

            Yes! Even in a very kid friendly business (I’m thinking daycare) there are limitations on having your kid with you at work. Even if mom was posing as a job applicant, receptionist should have deflected to hiring manager or HR!

      2. Liane*

        Maybe Mommy posed as an applicant? Or, as Jennifer Strange suggested, lying to OP – about asking or the answer.

    3. Jennifer Strange*

      To be fair it’s possible the mom lied about calling the receptionist (and/or about the answer). Even if she did call, I can see the conversation going something like this:

      Mom: “Hi, do you allow single moms to bring their kids to work?”
      Receptionist (likely thinking it’s a bizarre prank call and wondering what the punchline is): “Um….sure????”

      1. Socks*

        Mom could’ve also pretended to be a current employee with a childcare emergency asking if she could bring her son in

    4. Box of Rain*

      Yeah, this was my initial thought, too. Yikes on bikes! Talk to (or have someone else talk to) that receptionist ASAP!

    5. D*

      Yeah, this is precisely why I would *would* loop in the manager — because the receptionist is giving out employee information to randos on the phone and we’ve identified a training opportunity here.

  12. NeedsMoreCookies*

    I think it says a lot that your mother is trying to cast you as the “single mother” of this out-of-control teenager instead of herself. This kid needs therapy, he’s lost his dad and is sexually harassing people, and Mom is just abdicating responsibility.

    1. NotRealAnonForThis*

      I read and re-read twice because I couldn’t see HOW exactly any of this was the LW’s “parenting” because I swear that the LW is a sibling. Not a single mom. Not a parental figure. A SIBLING.

    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Exactly. Mom — the real mom, not OP — needs to put this child into therapy instead of offloading all parenting responsibility to OP.

    3. Quite Cross On Your Behalf*

      Yes! That’s what I was thinking, how is LW a single mum!? Honestly it sounds like on a personal note LW already has plenty of reasons to contact CPS, mum needs help with this child who she clearly can’t control and won’t let LW control. He is 13 years old and being set up to go down the worst paths.

      If I was in LW’s position I’d tell my manager or a trusted mentor in the company as it is probably having a bigger impact on them and therefore potentially their work. Perhaps your company has further support available like counselling.

      As for the situation at hand, mum will probably be chasing down your manager next, having them aware that you have already said no makes sure your manager knows you are professional and are prioritising your work appropriately whilst you are in the office.

    4. Hobbling Up A Hill*

      I don’t think it’s as deep as that. I mean I agree that OP likely has had to take on more care of younger sibling than is normal, however I think the tactic there was ‘well if Susan the single mother is allowed to bring her hypothetical child into the office if there’s a childcare hiccup then surely OP is allowed to bring their teenage sibling to the office regularly for no reason’

  13. Yup*

    Oh boy.

    I was about to write that your brother’s behaviour is typical obnoxious teen behaviour, but sexually assaulting another student? He needs help, counseling, therapy, you name it. This is 100% not your responsibility. Your mother is offloading on you–perhaps because she is overloaded, but that’s not your responsibility either.

    I don’t know what to say, except take that all off your shoulders and put it back on hers. “No” is a full sentence. I’m really sorry, for you and your brother who needs his mom to step up.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      ^^ THIS. The OP’s brother’s behavior is absolutely unacceptable and frankly extremely alarming – alarming as in, get a therapist involved immediately.

      I predict in a few years, Mommy Dearest will be whining about why the OP won’t bail her brother out of jail or be a character witness for him.

    2. Haxphile*

      Not that this isn’t still a big problem, but the letter said “sexually harrassing” not assaulting.

      LW, for the feud/nonwork piece of this, I wonder if you might get extra relief writing into Carolyn Hax, both about navigating your relationship with your boundary-less mom. She might also weigh in on small actions you might take, if you wanted to, to help your brother get the help he needs. Some of his behavior is seriously problematic, but he’s still a kid with plenty of unprocessed trauma (father’s death, absent/incompetent mother) acting out. Might be useful to reframe it not as “he’s awful” but as “he’s got extremely limited but harmful tools for coping with a crappy childhood.”

      That said, he’s still not your responsibility. Life Skills for Adult Children (something Hax always recommends) can help you draw boundaries with your mom and your brother re: the work situation and everywhere else.

        1. iglwif*

          They ABSOLUTELY mean different things.

          “Sexual harrassment” probably means persistently making comments about the classmate’s body, clothing, etc., and/or texting her sexualized comments and/or sending her sexual images, dick pics, etc., and/or spreading rumours about her.

          “Sexual assault” is more serious (legally speaking) and, I believe, has to involve physical contact although not necessarily violence — you can use coercion instead :/

    3. Anon for this*

      I agree that it’s not OP’s responsibility, but… as the onetime recipient of this kind of bullying when I was 12 or 13, I think it’s possible that the sexual harassment did fall within the same pattern as the rest. Would I report an adult colleague who commented on the size of my butt or chest? Definitely. Do I think my 12-year-old peers really meant it that way, 30 years ago? I don’t. I was humiliated and upset, but I don’t, now, think they truly knew how it would land. Should someone have stopped them anyway? Definitely yes.

      (I am now the mother of a 13-year-old and I make damn sure he knows not to do that, but there are times when he’s hugged someone in-family at an inopportune moment and I’ve had to say “You know you can’t hug your friends if they don’t want you to? Do you understand why you shouldn’t?”)

    4. Kevin Sours*

      All of the examples involve inappropriately sexualized behavior. Pushing boundaries is something 13 year olds do but this sounds well outside of normal bounds and made worse by nobody enforcing boundaries of behavior. This sounds like a problem heading towards bigger problems and not “kids will be kids”.

      But that’s not really a work problem or OP’s responsibility.

      1. Carrie*

        It’s definitely not normal. I have nephews this age, and it wasn’t that long ago that my brother was 13, and none of them played porn noises from their phone or sexually harassed classmates.
        The zebra comment though… maybe!

  14. Liz the Snackbrarian*

    My concern for LW is mom will drop the brother off or he will show up even if LW says no, and I hope it doesn’t come to that. LW, I wish you luck professionally and as you navigate life with your mother.

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        I would pre-emptively tell mom that is what would happen. Then follow through.
        At least CPS involvement might get the kid into therapy.

        1. Liane*

          Or just search Carolyn as archives for posts about children needing help as well as boundary a challenged adults. The ones about troubled kids almost always have links to easy to access resources where OP could ask, say for strategies from experts. For things like who to make a report to and scripts – as well as what to do if Mommy drops Brother at work without warning, which many here see happening.

      2. Velawciraptor*

        Compounding the brother’s trauma by possibly separating him from his surviving family through CPS involvement is maybe not the answer here.

        1. H.Regalis*

          What are some good alternatives that aren’t “LW parents their brother”? I don’t mean that sarcastically. I honestly can’t think of any. What do you suggest?

        2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          If Mom won’t parent and OP is not the parent, there aren’t any good solutions here. Sure CPS sucks, but so does ignoring the problem. CPS is better than the kid winding up in jail someday because no one bothered to check his behavior.

        3. Lellow*

          There is absolutely no way that CPS’s response to a 13 yo out in public by themselves would be to separate the from their family. Personally I suspect they wouldn’t consider this an issue for them at all.

        4. the hulk's PTSD*

          CPS’ first response is not going to be “show up and yank the kid away that day” (if they respond at all, let alone show up). But something is rotten in the state of Denmark (aka this family). And since the mom has apparently effed off on her one damn job, even though the school has already “hey your kid is enough of a proto sexual predator that even we’re paying attention,” something has to be done. So if the mom tries to drop the kid off at the OP’s workplace, well, then maybe someone who isn’t the OP is like “why TF is this random, unaccompanied kid here???? And why can’t they keep their hands to themselves?? What’s that number for CPS again, I think something happened to this kid to make them a junior pervert already.”

        5. Resentful Oreos*

          CPS is so overworked and underfunded that I guarantee you they won’t be looking around for a foster home for the kid. Chances are they’ll take the call, say “mm hmm we’ll look into it” and that will be that. Or maaaaaayyybe they’ll drop by for a visit or even more unlikely suggest parenting classes.

          OP’s mom should avail herself of all the low-cost help that she can, and that depends on the state and locality. There might be family counseling available for free or a small payment.

        1. New Jack Karyn*

          Telling Mom “No,” was the first option. Telling her “Absolutely not,” was the second option. Telling her, “If he walks in the door at my workplace without you, I will call CPS and/or the police,” would be the third option.

          Actually calling them if/when it happens is the nuclear option, and it is far down the tree.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        He’s too young to use an Uber (must be 18) unless he’s using the Uber for Teens program (13-17 years old).

        1. iglwif*

          What?! Is that a real thing? My kid was perfectly capable of taking cabs and ubers at that age (using my account).

          1. Lellow*

            It’s probably because Uber doesn’t want to pay extra insurance costs rather than them thinking teens are incapable.

            1. iglwif*

              You know, now that I think about it I’m not sure she was using my account — I was thinking about being the one to pay for the ubers, but I think she already had her own account and it just had my credit card in it. (Also you don’t need an account to take a taxi, you just call a cab company or book it in their app with your info.)

              My kid is now a whole adult (like, old enough to purchase alcohol even in the United States) with an undergraduate degree and a full-time job, but I promise you she was taking taxis and ubers on her own in middle school and high school, 100% without either question or incident. Not constantly! But in situations where your plan was to take the bus/subway but there’s been an insurmountable delay, or you are travelling with a tranquillized dog, or you are going to the airport.

              Maybe this is an American thing??

          3. anonymous here*

            Yes, it is. For Uber and Lyft, anyone under 18 must be accompanied by an adult unless they are enrolled in a teen program (not available everywhere). Taxis — it depends on company.

            If an Uber or Lyft driver took your minor child as a passenger without an adult, they were violating that policy. I’m guessing drivers do it because they get to you/your kid but now they have wasted time getting to you and they can’t afford to lose the time and money. They could report you (since it’s your account) and you might get banned. But again, time/money cost to a driver who is not making a ton of money.

            1. iglwif*

              Is this possibly a policy they have in the United States? That’s not where we live, and I have never heard of anything like this.

              As I noted in response to MigraineMonth I am not actually sure she was using my account; I think she may have already had an account and was just using my credit card as the payment method. (But she’s been an adult for almost 5 years now so my memory may not be accurate.)

      2. iglwif*

        Uber, a cab, the bus, whatever.

        13 is well old enough to spend a couple of hours at home on your own. If a specific 13yo can’t be trusted to spend a couple of hours at home on their own, then they absolutely cannot be hanging out in an older sibling’s office for that amount of time with minimal supervision. (Minimal supervision is the absolute most someone is able to offer while continuing to do their job.)

            1. Dahlia*

              Where would OP be storing a bike?

              I mean, it’s not up to them to solve how he gets home. He just can’t be there. He shouldn’t stop there at all.

    3. sdog*

      Yes, I was thinking about this, too! LW needs a plan in case this happens. CPS, cops, an uber are all good suggestions, but she needs to be prepared to follow through with whatever she decides to do.

    4. Calyx*

      I was thinking the same thing. What happens if your mum just tells your brother he can come by and he does? If he behaves badly in the office, even uninvited, it could hurt your reputation even if people are mostly sympathetic.

      I suggest informing your manager of this with some of the practical words suggested elsewhere, and also tell her that you are going to tell the receptionist that she is not to let this boy in. Or maybe she can tell the receptionist.

    5. Higher-ed Jessica*

      I’d suggest that if the brother ever shows up at work, LW immediately drops everything and takes him home/to wherever the mom is. While that will be inconvenient, people do leave work unexpectedly for family emergencies and a decent workplace won’t be awful about it if it’s not chronic. And it will send a strong message to the mom (and brother) that LW will NOT be keeping brother at work, ANY presence of brother at work is an immediate and unacceptable disruption to the workplace, and that canNOT be even the “emergency backup” solution. Plus LW can then work the “if you do this again you’re endangering my job” angle if she wants to.

      1. SHEILA, the co-host*

        My only concern is that it there is a possibility here that Mom wants to endanger OP’s job. She wants her dependent on her and willing to be an around the clock baby-sitter.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I think if OP gives the boss a heads-up, that will mitigate blowback since they know what’s going on (if boss is reasonable).

        2. Jellyfish Catcher*

          Yup, that occurred to me also. OP is developing some independence and separation from toxic mom, who now is trying to pull OP back “into line” by threatening
          her job.

  15. Greengirl*

    I think Allison’s script is great. It also opens up the possibility of a conversation with the receptionist about not giving out information to your mother or your manager maybe cluing the receptionist in to not giving out information about workplace policies to people who don’t work there.

    1. Lana Kane*

      I’ve been a receptionist and I know how it can be a minefield sometimes. But unless the receptionist is pretty new to the role, they should never have answered this question. I do think some training is in order there.

  16. Llellayena*

    Until I got to the last example I was thinking this sounds like a typical 13yo boy (still not acceptable for work but manageable), but that last one kicked it into “Oh Hell no!” I know you’re asking mostly for work advice, but is there any way you can convince your mom to get that kid into therapy? That just happens to occur just after school…

    1. Varthema*

      Yeah, it sounds to me like a very wounded kid who lost his dad, whose mom is clearly not stepping up, and who really needs help. He’s clearly found that leaning into inappropriate sexual remarks gets him the attention he craves (doesn’t matter that it’s negative attention) and now it’s slipping into other spheres, like with his classmates. Can the LW maybe speak to his brother’s school counselor to talk to his mom? it’s a sad story that’s heading nowhere good fast.

      1. My Cat’s Human*

        I was wondering the same. Education privacy laws likely prevent the counselor from giving out student info to the sister (who is not the parent)….but the counselor may be able to listen to the sister, and may be able to give general info like “here are some counseling options” or call the student in for a conversation. (If the ‘extracurriculars’ were private, like YMCA or aftercare, the school may not have documentation that he was banned. )

  17. chocolate lover*

    OP, your mom has some audacity, calling your job. You need to stick to your NO, it doesn’t matter if your company says people “can”, say that you won’t.

    You might need to update your receptionist and manager. What if mom shows up with your brother and leaves him with the receptionist, telling them here’s for you?

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      Yeah, I was wondering that. If so, it adds a level of complication to things (and I would encourage the LW to get a place of their own ASAP).

      1. Just another commenter*

        A further possible complication: sometimes controlling people will try to sabotage their target professionally, because if the target loses their job, it’s financially more difficult for them to get away. I hope that’s not what’s happening here, but I think it’s a possibility LW should be aware of.

        1. cncx*

          I came here to say this. The boundary pusher in my life did stuff also to sabotage my job and keep me under their thumb. It wasn’t just pushing private life stuff off on me at work, it was also looping my boss/colleagues in to make me look bad.

    2. old curmudgeon*

      I wonder the same thing. It’s a whole lot tougher to set and enforce boundaries with someone who lives in the same place.

      OP, if you are still living in your mother’s residence, is there any feasible way for you to get a place by yourself? I think that might be the most effective way to establish both this boundary and any others that mom is tromping on (of which I assume there are many, because boundary-trompers never stop at just one).

      Good luck, and do please update us if you are able to do so safely.

      1. Jellyfish Catcher*

        Yeah, even finding a room in a safe home is better.
        I rented a nice large room in a single mom’s home for 2 years during college; it had a bathroom, just for me as well.
        We had separate areas, didn’t eat together, and respected each others’ schedules and needs for quiet times.

    3. Metadata Janktress*

      I’m wondering the same thing. If so, it would be ideal for her to move out and gray rock away. Moving to another state and making clear that my boundary crossing dad that I would stop talking to him and kick him out of my home if he continued to cross boundaries did wonders for my mental health.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        I’m glad you got away.

        For OP, reading that letter, part of me thought that with a parent like that, in that situation, one option would be moving away. Even though that would me uprooting OP’s whole life, and possibly financial strain at least at first, sometimes with unreasonable family members, putting geographical distance between you is the only way to break free of their attempts at control, manipulation, bullying. It’s like, you can stay and try to deal with it as they slowly chip away at your well-being, autonomy, etc or you can rip off the band-aid, take the hit and remove yourself from their day to day presence and influence.

        But that would be an enormous hardship for OP. And while it’s not OP’s responsibility to raise their little brother, they may still be hoping to be a positive presence in his life to counteract Mom’s abdicata-banana-pants parenting, even a little bit.

    4. Anon Again... Naturally*

      Came here to ask that. OP, if you’re still living at home, you need to start working on an exit strategy if you aren’t already. I know the housing situation in a lot of areas (most?) is not great right now, but honestly having random roommates and the ability to be low/no contact with your mom may be a better deal right now for your mental health.

    5. Jellyfish Catcher*

      I also wondered. The LW is possibly not yet financially stable enough to get out on her own – which makes the stability of her job even more important.

    6. Head Sheep Counter*

      I actually assumed this given how intertwined the dynamic reads as.

      She’s been weirdly parentified without authority

  19. epicdemiologist*

    Mom sounds like she’s entirely capable of dropping the kid off at the workplace without anyone’s agreement. Even if that’s the remotest of remote possibilities, boss and/or building security should probably have a heads-up in advance.

  20. Mental illness sucks*

    I agree 100% with Allison on the advice given. But my heart also breaks for this boy. And honestly mom too – if he is like that all the time along with her being sole provider – that’s a lot with zero support. 13 is SO young to have these issues, and to be rejected everywhere due to them. Not the lw’s issue to solve – most ESP at her workplace – but where is he getting this behavior from? And what therapy are he and Mom in to address it?

    1. Indolent Libertine*

      My first guess for “where he’s getting this behavior from“ is “watching manosphere bros on YouTube.“

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        And if Little Bro is not supervised properly, he’s watching those and probably a whole bunch of other age-inappropriate kinds of stuff. Mainlining the manosphere and those “ow my balls” type of people doing dumb things videos happens when you don’t put parental controls on YouTube or TikTok. And at the age of 13, Bro won’t understand “don’t try this in real life”.

        1. RVA Cat*

          All of this, plus he may be watching porn and thinking it’s “normal” instead of being, well, the WWE of sex.

    2. Doublecheck*

      I’m with the other commenters who thinks that this list raises some additional questions- one or two of these things is maybe average, but by the time I got to the end I was wondering if this kid is experiencing some sort of sexual abuse. If it were my brother, I’d sit him down for a serious conversation to ask if he’s ok directly and make sure no weirdos showed up in his life (online or in-person). It can’t hurt to check in if you’re kind about it, especially if therapy isn’t on the table for whatever reason. If nothing else it might give him some perspective to how other people might interpret that kind of behavior.

    3. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      Same. I wonder if there’s any such thing as a youth club, sports club or mentoring scheme, where he could encounter some real-life older blokes with their feet on sensible ground. (as distinct from e.g. manosphere role models on video)

      1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

        … although I suppose he maybe had some of that before being excluded.

        Obviously the ensuring there’s no more harassing of peers has to happen, so I’m not saying the exclusion was wrong. And maybe the school is pitifully under-resourced. But I don’t like where that sanction has left this kid. Like who’s there to support & guide him that isn’t his mother (not coping) or his sibling (doing their best but not actually a parent, and undermined by the mum)? It takes a village to raise a child.

        Also I’m thinking of an article I read, I can’t find it right now, about a school where they make a point of keeping in mind the traumas that kids have been through. Death of a parent is officially an Adverse Childhood Event.

  21. Velawciraptor*

    Not to mention, what may apply to single mothers has nothing to do with you. You’re not his mother! You’re not responsible for him!

  22. Delta Delta*

    I would NOT tell Mom that it’s ok in emergencies only. That’ll give her wiggle room and a toehold to say “but this is an emergency! and it’s ok with your work!” OP needs to say no and needs backing from the boss on this. And maybe even a work-wide APB that OP’s mom may call and that any calls from her get routed to the boss.

    This said, I’m also concerned about Brother. Brother is doing some things that you’d expect a 13 year old to do. But if it was just one or two of those things, it could be chalked up to him being a kid. But the combination of things, the sexual harassment, the dad’s passing – all this looks like a recipe for this kid needing some mental health assistance. Left unchecked it could end up really bad for him (or someone else). OP might do a kindness and alert the school counselor to possible needs since it doesn’t sound like Mom has the capacity to do that. And school counselors are usually mandatory reporters. Not that anyone wants CPS (or equivalent) involved, but sometimes that’s what it takes before things get on track.

  23. Tradd*

    The LW really needs to move away from her city, IMO. The only way to deal with such parent(s) is to move hours and hours away (which is what I did).

    1. NotAnotherManager!*

      My mom is only about half as bad as LW’s, and my sibling was generally a good kid whose misbehavior was not disturbing on age-inappropriate – moving away still saved my sanity. I get along much better with my mother living 100+ miles apart, and my favorite part of college was not being a live-in housekeeper/babysitter and only being responsible for myself. I often wondered how the first few months after I left went with her realizing just how much she had to start doing herself without me.

  24. Falling Diphthong*

    My response to my mother was ABSOLUTELY NOT, and I put my foot down by saying I couldn’t let my brother into the office even if I wanted to.
    Absolutely the right move.

    I haven’t brought any of this up to my manager because I wanted to solve it on my own first, and I didn’t think my family issues should be his problem.
    Very reasonable as a Plan A. But your mom has refused to cooperate with Plan A, and so Plan B needs to be loop your boss in that a person has called the office claiming to be on your behalf, and this is absolutely not so.

    My broad advice here is to speak to your manager, and practice some scripts so you get something that is concise (don’t go into a list of issues) but lays out how serious the problem is (don’t drape it in so much euphemism that the actual problem gets lost). Something like, “Manager, I just found out that a relative called the office, to try to get someone to agree that I could babysit a 13-year old relative while I work. I had no idea they were going to try this, and I absolutely am not going to do this. I just wanted to give you a heads-up since the relative is trying to go around me and drag in other people.” (And then stop talking, and don’t go into what I am sure is a long and very fair rant about how your mom is acting.)

    1. Bananapants Modiste*

      I also am concerned that Mommy might simply drop off Brother at OP’s office.
      What to do? Call police and CPS?
      This might be even more complicated if OP still lives with Mommy.

      In a nutshell: I recommend giving the boss a heads up about the situation.

      An anecdote:
      My own family (that I didn’t live with) stalked adult younger me at several jobs.
      I explained the situation and what to do (refuse entry, call transfer, and messages) to several bosses and front desk people in a non dramatic way. They always were understanding and helpful.

      1. Peter the Bubblehead*

        Many years ago I used to work with a teenager who had been adopted when very young but shortly after starting to work at our location her biological family started attempting to wriggle their way back into her life. She explained the situation to the manager and those she was closest with at the servince counter (fast food job) that if any of these family members showed up she would give us a code word and then head to the break room out back where customers could not get to. We all understood we were to tell them they were to leave and, if they refused, call the police because she had a retraining order againt these people. Everyone who knew was supportive.

  25. An American(ish) Werewolf in London(ish)*

    Although it’s not mentioned in the letter, reading between the lines I suspect the OP lives with their mother which doesn’t change the answer (and its a good one) but I suspect it means the OP will have to have this verbal battle every. single. hour. of every single day. Which will be wearing.

    If I’m right about the living situation (and, of course, I may not be!) the answer in a perfect world would be ‘move out’, but we all know how difficult and impractical that can be.

    Nevertheless, good on you for sticking with your ‘no’ – you’re a braver person than I would probably have been – I would have a quiet word with your boss or HR – the last thing you need is a 13 year old just…showing up, asking for you. Good luck – I’ll be thinking of you.

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      Yeah, I also got the sense that the LW still leaves at home, making this a much more difficult situation.

    2. Hannah Lee*

      “… but I suspect it means the OP will have to have this verbal battle every. single. hour. of every single day. Which will be wearing.”

      Oh, man, yes.
      And unfortunate fallout from that will be brother overhearing his mom and his older sibling arguing about how neither one of them is willing to have him around.

      1. Hobbling Up A Hill*

        On the other hand, is it possible to enlist the help of the brother in this endeavour so he doesn’t feel like that?

        I was a quiet, well behaved and generally deeply boring teenager but I would rather have gone literally anywhere else rather than sitting in my sibling’s (presumably) boring office.

        If OP were to mention it to him as ‘my office is a very boring and reserved place (think, that one office where humour was not allowed) with all the fun websites blocked, all the other adults there are very boring and teacher-ish, oh by the way mom wants you to come and spend time there after school’ then is he likely to go and pitch a fit at mom about how he doesn’t want to go to your office?

        He’s thirteen and while he definitely needs a better parent and some therapy, he’s also old enough to get some say in where he’s going. Given that he’s demonstrated less than stellar judgement even for a thirteen year old, not the final say but certainly *a* say (after all, I think the only thing worse than OP’s mom dropping him off at their office is OP’s mom trying to do that and the teenager deciding to just leave instead and ending up who knows where). It also forces OP’s mom to fight on two fronts if neither of her children are happy about this arrangement and since she’s proven she’s more willing to let him do what he wants than she is OP, she might cave.

        1. Suze*

          Not sure that would work. To me the boy’s behavior sounds like a cry for attention. Getting yelled at and shocking the adults around him is exactly what he is going for, so he may not mind the office. This happens when children feel any attention, even negative attention, is better than the loneliness that comes from being ignored.

  26. BW*

    Absolutely tell your boss. Tell your boss that you’re handling it, but absolutely link them in. It may be that Mom won’t back down until the boss tells her in person that it’s not going to ever happen.

  27. Vathena*

    I hope you’re able to stand firm, LW – this sounds like a very frustrating situation. I wanted to flag that that seems like a lot of acting out of a sexual nature. I’m sure there is a range of normal for 13-year-old boys (obnoxious remarks about zoo animals), but it putting it all together and escalating to the harassment of a classmate that was sufficient to get him kicked out of all extracurriculars…could be a possible sign he’s experienced some inappropriate things. If your mom is receptive to the idea at all, it’s probably a good idea to ask his pediatrician.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      Yeah, this was my thought too. At the very least, he’s probably woefully undersupervised when it comes to looking at sexual content on the Internet.

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        Chances are it might be Little Bro accessing “manosphere” content while unsupervised. There well might be something more serious going on, and should be investigated, but it could be just “I’m going to watch reactionary videos all day every day.”

        The zoo animal remark sounds like garden variety middle school obnoxious boy stuff, as does the “make the talking toy say offensive things,” but being banned from after school programs due to sexually harassing or bullying a classmate is NOT normal.

        1. RVA Cat*

          Note that might not be as a victim – the behavior makes me wonder if he’s being influenced by a friend’s frat boy brother or something..

  28. Fluffy Fish*

    Oh my OP. People have implemented low-no contact boundaries with family members for much less.

    I think you are looking at this as if there is some magical phrase that’s going to make your mother accept “no” as the answer. There’s not. It doesn’t matter what your employer’s policy is or what your boss says or what the phase of the moon is.

    You are under no obligation to continue having this discussion. Unreasonable people don’t suddenly become reasonable. People who trounce all over boundaries don’t suddenly accept them.

    No is a complete sentence.

    You will also have to decide how you will handle him just showing up. Maybe that’s having him removed from the premises. Maybe that’s taking off to deposit him at home and return to work. But it absolutely cannot be caving and allowing him to be there.

    1. Jellyfish Catcher*

      If the brother is dropped off or shows up, she should not drive him home or even see him. The brother will not be “rewarded” by making a scene at her place of work.

      She is Not his mother; she is Not responsible for him.
      Somebody at work calls the police, who hopefully deal with the kid and his mother.
      Her safety and her future depends on doing well at her job.

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        While that would be great in a perfect world – when you are dealing with these kinds of family dynamics it’s rarely that simple. In a perfect world OP would cut all contact with her mother. In reality, that’s a lot more complicated a decision. For example as others have pointed out, OP may live with them.

        Taking him home would not be “rewarding” him. Its a practical solution to a very difficult family dynamic and circumstance. He is old enough to stay home alone. If he’s not mature enough to be left home alone then that becomes the mother’s consequences to deal with.

        Letting him cause a scene in the lobby and waiting while the cops show up also has the potential to affect her work.

        It’s really not that simple. OP needs to decide what the best option is for her circumstances.

        1. Jellyfish Catcher*

          I get your take; there is no guarantee of what will be best, but no business is going to tolerate a new worker taking, say, a 45 min daily to drive someone else’s badly behaved kid home and/or random other demands.
          Taking him home just rewards the mother.

          I lean on supporting the LW and that includes protecting her from losing her job and not being pushed around by her mother.

          If the brother needs to get home, he can call his Actual Mother at Her Workplace,
          Otherwise, the police and mom deal with this, and possibly the lobby door of the business should remain locked at the time that school gets out.

          The LW is trying to advance herself and does not deserve having someone else’s kid, even a sibling, stop her from that goal.

  29. Esprit de l'escalier*

    I would be concerned that mom might bring the boy to OP’s office to show him where it is and how to get there on his own, since his school is nearby. I think OP needs to alert security and the receptionist that this could happen despite her firm NO to her mom, and to not allow mom to deposit kid there or kid to come in by himself.

      1. MyStars*

        I might be reacting to my own boundary-crossers, but I would consider telling mom (and reception) that if he shows up uninvited, the police and/or CPS will be contacted to remove him from the property.

        1. Bananapants Modiste*

          Good plan. Defuse the situation before it happens.
          And when (not if) it does happen, stand firm.

  30. what up it's me*

    I disagree a bit with Alison on this one, I think that you should loop your boss in. I think you can be factual and reasonable in what you tell him and it will go over fine. Something like “I just wanted to let you know that my mom is currently very fixated on the idea of my little brother staying at the office after school. I’ve told her that this isn’t a viable option, and I feel strongly that it isn’t for a variety of reasons. Normally I wouldn’t bring you in on this type of family situation, but my mom is now trying to go around me to make this happen and she called Reception to ask about policies around single parents bringing children, and I think it’s possible she’ll keep trying.” If you have any actions you’d like him to take (telling you firmly and directly that you cannot have a younger sibling at work so that you can tell your mom you asked your boss and it was a hard no; asking folks who might be on the receiving end of your mom’s contact attempts to refer them to him directly) I think that could be helpful too.

    This advice is coming from my own experience dealing with poorly-boundaried family members and an experience I had at work a few years ago when one of my coworkers’ parents showed up at our office. They were estranged from her and had decided to come to her work to try to see her. She let her boss know what had happened and that she wasn’t interested in speaking to them in any way and he gave a discreet heads-up to staff who might be greeting visitors about the situation and how it should be handled (that’s how I found out about this).

    1. Yay!*

      I feel like this is the most informed comment posted.

      There are a lot of “if”, “might”, “may” and “could” posted. This is one of the days where folks with little experience are offering input.

    2. WS*

      Yes, one of my co-workers was in a similar situation and it’s a small town so those family members are going to be coming in at some stage. Everyone knowing to warn her so she could go out the back when they were present was helpful.

  31. Lark*

    This sounds like something where you might need to make clear to your mother that you will call CPS if she leaves your brother at the office. My bet is that she will assume that just dropping him off or telling him to show up will make this a fait accompli, because he won’t listen or have anywhere to go if you tell him to leave, your boss won’t call the cops on a child or kick him out into the street, if he pitches a tantrum in the middle of the room no one is going to manhandle him out the door, etc. I would hope that you would never need to call CPS, because that’s a big step, but your mother is putting you in a position where you are jeopardizing your livelihood because she feels that you don’t have any other options.

    Another reason to loop your boss in – assuming you don’t literally work in sight of the door, your brother would come in and end up at the reception desk, possibly with your mother, and the receptionist would absolutely need to know that she cannot just bring him back to where you work.

    Your brother does sound like he needs some additional support – not just because he is harassing a classmate to the point where he’s kicked out of activities, but because he is doing and saying crass thirteen year old boy things not with his friends but in front of his family. I’d expect a lot of that stuff from some boys, sure, but making sex jokes about toddlers in front of their parents, etc, not so much.

  32. Remarkable4real*

    I’m thinking the mother and son need to seek therapy. The LW mentioned that her father passed away a few years ago and it seems like they haven’t recovered from that life changing event.

  33. Slow Gin Lizz*

    All of this except I wouldn’t tell your mom it’s permissible in an emergency because then she’ll start fabricating all kinds of “emergencies” so that you’ll have to bring him to your office.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      This. Just as reasons are for reasonable people, explaining the specific circumstances under which you would make an exception is for reasonable people.

      Because unreasonable people will produce those circumstances every time they decide that you doing the thing would make their day easier.

      1. Bananapants Modiste*

        This.
        My estranged family fabricated all sorts of emergencies, none of which were true.
        After colleagues and I stood firm, the “emergencies” went away.

  34. RagingADHD*

    It is unclear whether LW lives with their mom and brother. That could be a complicating factor to the “say no, no explanation needed” approach. If LW’s housing is dependent on keeping in Mom’s good graces, it might be necessary to persuade her that it isn’t possible, rather than simply refusing to discuss it.

    In that case, leaning on the fact that LW isn’t a single parent, and this isn’t their kid, should help. Even a workplace that was very lenient about letting single parents bring their own kids in is not going to allow employees to bring in other people’s kids.

    I know it’s outside the purview of workplace questions, but I certainly hope the brother (and mom) are getting appropriate interventions. This level of acting out isn’t going to magically get better on its own.

    1. Tea Rocket*

      I agree that if the LW is living with her mom, it makes the “say no, no explanation needed” thing harder to enforce. But while we’re speculating, I would also posit that if the LW is living with her mom and brother, then she’s probably contributing to the household in ways that her mom cannot afford (in both the financial and metaphoric sense) to live without. If nothing else the LW is on hand to supervise her brother during non-work hours.

  35. H.Regalis*

    I’d give your manager a heads up so they know this is coming from your mom and isn’t something you agreed to do.

    You’re going to have to tell your mom no. No reasons, no exceptions, just “No, I’m not doing this ever,” and then brace for the storm because she is going to flip her shit and put the screws to you to try to make you go along with this. She’ll probably call you all kinds of names and give you a list of mind-bending reasons why you should totally do this. You’re going to have to hold firm. It won’t be easy.

    Have a plan for what you’ll do if she drops him off unannounced. I hope it doesn’t get to that point, but plan out how you’ll handle it ahead of time.

    And, needless to say, if you live with your mother and brother, move out as fast as you can.

    1. Bananapants Modiste*

      Mommy flipping her lid after OP says NO is also known as the extinction burst, where resistance makes the perp become much worse before the pressure stops.

  36. What_the_What*

    “but when my mom asked if single moms are allowed to bring their kids in, the receptionist confirmed that it was allowed. ”

    LW remind your mom and if needed your receptionist that “YOU” are not a single mom. You are also not your brother’s legal guardian. What a mess if he gets hurt in the office (Mom sounds looney enough to sue!) Also, there’s a huge difference between “bringing a kid in” to say pick up something or drop something off and having a kid hanging out there for HOURS.

    In all honesty, bro really seems like he has some issues that need addressed professionally. I’d suggest to Mom that perhaps a therapy appointment directly after school could be a productive use of that time between end of school and Mom being able to pick him up. Happy healthy kids don’t act out like that.

  37. Rick Tq*

    Your brother needs help but your mother needs a clue, and you need to move out if you haven’t already.

    This sounds harsh but your receptionist should have instructions to call the police and Child Protective Services if your mom does a drive-by and drops your brother off at your job or has him walk there.

    Does his school have after-class child care available, and if so your mother needs to enroll him instead of trying to dump the responsibility on you.

    1. NotRealAnonForThis*

      On the last part (after care)…

      At least where I live in the USA, there’s no after-care for middle school, which is grades 6-8. With my state’s birthday cutoff rules for school enrollment, the minimum age for a 6th grader is 11.

      And even so – elementary after care was considered to be “extracurricular” by our district, and you could be banned from it for behavior outside of being suspended for behavior during school hours. Enrollment in public school was a right with some limits, enrollment in extracurriculars including after-care was not.

    2. Rara Avis*

      There is almost no aftercare for students older than say, 10, where I live. It’s an ongoing frustration for parents of my acquaintance — if your preteen/teen isn’t into sports, there isn’t a lot for them to do between 3 and 5 that’s supervised. And the letter says that he has been kicked out of extracurriculars.

    3. Liane*

      “Does his school have after-class child care available, and if so your mother needs to enroll him…”
      The LW wrote that the reason for Mom pressing them to have Brother at work is he was **banned from after school extracurriculars for the rest of the school year for sexual harassment.**

      So chances of Brother getting into afterschool care (if there is any for his age) is somewhere between zero & negative infinity percent. At least I hope so.

    4. iglwif*

      I’ve never heard of after-care for kids older than 11. (At my daughter’s school, the before/after program operating in the building technically ran from JK (age ~4) through grade 6 (age ~11), but in practice, there were no kids in grade 6 and very few in grade 4 and 5 in the program. Because it’s generally accepted that kids that age are typically fine to be on their own at home for a couple of hours after school. I’ve never head of an on-site before/after program for 13yos attending a regular public school.

      Boys & Girls Club and YMCA and the like often have after-school programs for teens, but that sounds like exactly the kind of thing OP’s brother has been banned from.

    5. Liane*

      I don’t think aftercare is a viable solution here. The brother was banned from extracurriculars so it’s highly unlikely he’d be allowed in aftercare. That’s assuming it is even available at his age; most aftercare programs are limited to grade 5/ages 11-12.

    6. HannahS*

      Calling CPS or the police because someone’s 13 year old brother was dropped off by his mother and his sibling’s workplace is an utterly ridiculous thing to do. What crime do you imagine is being committed? What outcome are you hoping for? That the police will arrest him? Arrest the mom? That CPS will put him into someone else’s custody? The police and the CPS are not your personal boundary-enforcers.

      1. Former Young Lady*

        Not “dropped off.” Abandoned. He’d have no way of getting home on his own if his mom left him there, because OP can’t accommodate him and has already said so.

        People “drop off” their kids when the kids are expected to be somewhere. When the kid is neither expected nor allowed at the destination and the parent leaves them anyway, that’s abandonment.

        1. HannahS*

          The police and CPS are not going to see it that way. His sister is in the building. He’s 13, not 5! Unless he’s in a state where he’s considered too young to be alone, CPS and the police are not going to care. At most, the police might tell the kid he can’t be in the building and has to wait outside, which doesn’t actually help the OP at all. Calling the CPS for advice on resources for the family? Sure, maybe they can help, depending on where the OP is.

          Calling CPS or the police to come because your teenage brother is loitering at your workplace is a waste of time and a bad idea.

        2. iglwif*

          What makes you think he has no way of getting home on his own? How does he get to school, and how is he getting to OP’s office?

          He’s 13, not 3. If you call Children’s Aid because a 13yo is out in public on their own, they are not going to go “OH NO! AN ABANDONED CHILD!”

      2. Saturday*

        Agreed. This is not something that the police or CPS should be forced to sort out. Besides, I think the LW wants to reduce the likelihood of family drama at work, and that would not be a good way to do that!

    7. Person from the Resume*

      I think the LW needs to work on boundaries with her mom.

      I don’t think the LW is going to call CPS on her mom to say say her mom abandoned her brother and get her brother taken away from mom. * won’t happen 13 year old was not abandoned and is old enough to alone

      Calling CPS just means the you waste their time reporting something ridiculous.

      1. Peter the Bubblehead*

        What is the alternative? Company manager refuses to let the brother into the building and he goes wandering off who knows where? What do you think the conversation will be like with mom when LW gets home and she asks where brother is?
        If you called the police, would they not at least be obligated to make sure a 13 year old minor whose legal guardian either dropped him off or told him to go someplace he is not authorized to be at least gets home safely?
        At the very least, the police telling brother he is being tresspassed and cannot be at sister’s office – even if he has to spend the next three hours walking around town getting into who-knows-what trouble – may be enough to get through Mom’s thick skull?

  38. Boggle*

    “I’ve had an exhausting feud with my mother because of her passive parenting of my brother. She simultaneously thinks I don’t do enough to control him, while any actual consequences I give him always get me a “why did you have to be so meeeeeean to him?” (My father passed away a few years ago, unfortunately.)” You should not be doing “any” parenting of your younger brother; it’s not your responsibility whether at home or in your office(!). Your mother is way out of line to expect either of these things from you, but you know that. You will have to keep strong with your boundaries around your office, she needs to understand, unequivocally, having your brother in your office is not an option, period. I would also, as soon as you can, move out of your home so your mother is forced to handle your brother (HER son!) on her own. She will need to figure it out herself and stop leaning on you so hard. Alternatively, I would recommend therapy for you, to get some tools for handling the situation. Sorry you are dealing with this.

    1. H3llifIknow*

      Yeah I agree. Mom has seriously abdicated her parental role to the older sibling here. I’d guess big sis/bro took on caring while Mom was grieving the loss of Dad and Mom has taken on that role of learned helplessness and is leaning on sibling way too much. Firm boundaries and family therapy….STAT!

    2. Bananapants Modiste*

      Boggle is right, the quoted paragraph tells us OP is still living at home and being forced into a parenting role of a minor who needs help.

      OP, do three things:

      1. Tell your job.

      2. Stand firm in saying no. It will be hard and I feel for you.

      3. GET OUT OF MOMMY’S HOUSE. Even if you’re only 17 or 18, you can find a room, cheap motel etc. DON’T TELL MOMMY WHERE YOU LIVE.
      Life on your own will be expensive and cramped, but your peace of mind will be priceless. I’ve done it all.

  40. Ann O'Nemity*

    If this kid can’t behave in a youth program what makes your mom think he’s going to do better in a professional workplace?

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Mom doesn’t think he’ll behave in the workplace, she thinks the problem will no longer be hers to worry about.

    2. H3llifIknow*

      Interesting that Mom is so sure sibling can “babysit” him but doesn’t seem to have considered taking him to HER office/place of employment….

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      The power of OP’s personality.

      In its way, it reminds me of the letter from the manager told that they could not keep their top performer by offering more money (as promised) or a promotion (as promised) and needed to instead retain the talent via creating a magnetic team atmosphere that drew excellent workers in.

      1. H3llifIknow*

        … I threw up a little in my mouth just reading that. I don’t remember that letter but… holy.

  41. Quercus*

    The milder way to tell the boss is something like “I don’t want to involve you in my family drama, but just in case it ever comes up, I want to be clear that my mother does not speak for me, even if she says I said something was OK, and ask that you not discuss any aspects of my work with her”

    That makes the important work-related point to the boss (about this and potential future issues), without going into messy details.

  42. Anona llama*

    If the brother is sexually harassing female classmates, there is a good chance he will do the same to female employees. Someone being harassed by a minor whose parent doesn’t even work there could lead to an HR nightmare.

    LW, I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Follow Alison’s advice and keep your foot down.

  43. Direct to the my point*

    I think the boss should be clued in and told exactly why. Perhaps be told that the company will not chance having sexually inappropriate behavior onsite will be the wake-up call for some therapy.

    1. Pomodoro Sauce*

      It would depend on OP’s relationship with her boss — if the relationship is warm, I could see doing this. If the relationship is less solid, I think Alison’s advice for looping the boss in is good — I think adding “My mother doesn’t speak for me” per Quercus’s statement is also a really wise thing to include in any statement because heaven only knows what else OP’s mother will claim.

  44. A*

    As a thirteen year old who can’t be left alone for a few hours after school and has been sexually harassing classmates, your brother needs more than just babysitting. It’s above your pay grade to fix this, it seems like it calls for professional support and behavioral interventions

    1. iglwif*

      DING DING DING.

      Something is going on with this kid, maybe related to losing his dad, maybe related to his mom abdicating all responsibility, maybe both, maybe something else entirely, but all of this seems very worrying.

    2. Annie Blue*

      I was going to say something like this…by the time they were 13, my own children could be trusted to be home alone for a few hours without supervision. There are clearly bigger issues going on. Good luck, OP.

      1. Part time lab tech*

        Depends very much on the child. My eldest is just a lot more sensible than my younger boy. My younger boy likes a lot more stimulation and pushes on boundaries because he wants to be free, (or not have rules so he can’t be punished.)

  45. rebelwithmouseyhair*

    I think the reception staff need to be warned that the mother might try and strongarm the brother in, thinking OP would have to take him if she simply leaves him there. OP needs to tell them that she has refused to take her brother and that on no account should OP be expected to collect him from reception if he’s found there at some point. And OP should also warn her mother that she’ll simply call the police to explain that her mother has abandoned her son at an inappropriate place for children.
    What a nightmare of a mother, I feel for you, OP!

  46. Sunflower*

    Yikes! Does your mom want you to lose your job? This is what will happen if you allow your brother in the office when (not if) he harasses your coworkers with his disgusting comments and actions.
    If you live with them a and can’t afford to move out on your own, find a roommate or 3 and move out!

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      I suspect that it’s more that mom thinks OP, if properly motivated, will control the younger sibling via the power of OP’s dome of mental fortitude.

      But yeah, if it looks like financial control and quacks like financial control, consider acting like that’s what it is. Because probably the answer is the same, regardless of the secret thoughts and feelings of the other person that would attest to their real, true goals in doing this.

      Sometimes people are just really, really terrible at foreseeing the consequences. Even if everyone around them is like “There is a giant warning sign right there” or “This happened the previous 17 times you did this same thing, how can you be surprised?”

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        Sometimes people are just really, really terrible at foreseeing the consequences. Even if everyone around them is like “There is a giant warning sign right there” or “This happened the previous 17 times you did this same thing, how can you be surprised?”

        This, millions of times over, this.

        Plus, LW’s mother may well be in denial and think brother is a “perfect angel,” the examples provided all carrying (implausible to one degree or another) excuses. I’d also rope my boss in, because it sounds like LW’s mother has already mentally finalized her solution, isn’t listening to reason (if she ever did), and may well move on to executing said solution at any moment.

    3. cncx*

      Not with a sibling but this kind of financial control definitely happened to me. My heart goes out to op.

  47. Sparkles McFadden*

    I’m so sorry this is happening, LW. You might want to give your boss a heads up, saying your mom is intrusive and she already called your workplace once and will probably try again. You don’t have to go into detail. Just say “I’ve told her not to do this but I don’t know if she’ll listen to me or not.” I’ve been the manager who had to deal with the boundary-smashing family member. I’d handle it the same way, with or without a warning, but it was nice to have the warning.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Seconded. Let your boss know what’s going on in case your mom escalates. It’s better to be able to give a proactive heads up. If you have a good HR department, this is the kind of thing they could also help with.

  48. Caffeine Monkey*

    | You can say, “It’s permissible in rare emergencies but not regularly.”

    I wouldn’t say this. From my experience with boundary-stompers, this is just giving an inch for them to take a mile.

  49. Dancing with Penguins*

    Possibly also coach mom on contacting the school – are there any options for supervised activities that would be allowed – even a work-study type job. Something to provide structure, supervison, at no-cost?

    1. H.Regalis*

      I don’t think that’s a good idea. LW’s trying to be less involved with parenting their brother, not more. This is just going to entangle them further.

      1. H3llifIknow*

        Exactly! This just feeds into Mom’s abdication of her role and her dependency on OP to be the parent. It’s honestly little wonder bro is acting out when there are no clear boundaries set for him by his erstwhile parent!

    2. iglwif*

      While this sounds like a good intervention *in general*, I do NOT think that OP should be providing more parenting support for her mom. Mom relying on OP to parent her little brother instead of doing it herself is how we got to this situation.

  50. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Honestly, I think I’d probably go the route of treating the mom as I would any other person with whom I might have an estranged interpersonal relationship. You’re not estranged, but think of what you would do if an ex-significant other kept threatening to pop round your workplace to hang out even if you already told them no, you can’t do that. It’s very weird behaviour! You’d let your boss, HR, security know. You’d put them on a list of people who cannot contact you if they ask at the front desk, etc.

    It may be hard to think of her that way because she’s your mom, but this is your workplace and her behaviour has a huge potential for negatively affecting your career if you’re not pro-active about it.

  51. Jinni*

    Boundary books were all the rage a couple of years ago. Consider: The Joy of Saying No by Natalie Lu, Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Tawwab, and Boundary Boss by Teri Cole. They all have podcasts which have relevant episodes that may be easier to consume in smaller bites.

  52. Qwerty*

    Absolutely talk to your boss! This is one of those circumstances where it is better for the manager to have advance context even if nothing comes of it. Your mom has already called the office, so now its a work problem. This allows the manager to assist (maybe change what the front desk can tell people, maybe loop in HR, etc) and have context in case your mom ends up calling the manager and misrepresenting your feelings/actions on the matter.

    If your manager is also a good mentor, looping them also helps give a baseline of the norms that you have seen. I would try to give you extra mentoring and support – partly to help you succeed but mostly to help you feel safe and supported in one aspect of your life.

  53. here to help*

    I wouldn’t bring it up or involve anyone at work or in the office, they will probably feel like it’s not work related and just a bunch of personal issues (as your own foreword seemed to imply.)

    Learn to set and respect boundaries with your mother, and start by looking at the office as a domain she has zero authority in.

    1. H3llifIknow*

      …ok? and when Mom continues to call? Drops by with or w/o little brother? Then what? The LW should absolutely, in a very matter of fact way, let the receptionist (at the least) and probably her own boss, know what’s going on. Doesn’t have to be dramatic.

    2. Former Young Lady*

      Having experienced this as the coworker who kept getting inappropriate phone calls from a colleague’s family members, I strongly disagree. OP needs to alert the receptionist not to engage with their mom, and the boss needs to know what’s going on in case things escalate.

      The mom is already making it OP’s coworkers’ problem by calling them behind OP’s back. When someone disrespects boundaries like that, everyone affected has a right to know about it.

    1. A. Lab Rabbit*

      Reading the letter, I’m guessing it’s because mom’s office is too far away?

      My mother is trying to strong-arm me into letting my 13-year-old brother stay in my office with me after school since his school is close to where I work.

  55. The esteemed governor*

    I don’t know how old the LW is, but if she’s a student and still living at home with mom and brother, it adds a bit more complication to the matter.

    1. H3llifIknow*

      She doesn’t indicate living with her Mom/brother and since she speaks of “keeping him in my office” and having a receptionist, it appears to be a professional job and she’s out of school. But, maybe that’s just my read on it.

      1. Watry*

        With housing the price it is, I would not take “having a professional job” as any sort of indicator of living situation. I have a professional job with my own office and will be returning to the house I share with my parents after work.

        Additionally, I read it as being the company’s receptionist.

        1. RVA Cat*

          This. I’m thinking OP is in her 20s. Note I’m saying her for a reason as I doubt their mother would impose on an older brother like this.

        2. H3llifIknow*

          She mentioned her Mom calling and speaking TO the receptionist, so I wouldn’t make the assumption that the OP *is* the receptionist.

  56. Veryanon*

    Yikes. I feel sorry for OP and the brother, who is clearly troubled and isn’t getting the help he needs. Mom called her job??? What??? OP may need to cut Mom off completely.

  57. teensyslews*

    The only reason I would consider involving your manager is if you think your mother will drop off your brother/direct him there after school without your permission, or continue calling/harassing your workplace. Something along the lines of “I’m dealing with a family member who wants me to supervise a minor child after school while I am in the office. I have told them it’s not possible, but they have already called the office without my permission to inquire around childcare policies. I’d like to discuss options for dealing with this as they are likely to continue to call/drop off the child even though I have explicitly told them not to.”

  58. Fotze*

    I’m sorry, but if this is happening when he’s THIRTEEN I’m concerned that his behavior (especially the harassment) is a sign your brother might become a type of predator. He needs serious intervention, and while you’re not his mother, I would be very worried about this pattern.
    I’m speaking from over 14 years of experience in law enforcement. I do not know what the solution is, and I may certainly be wrong, but several red flags are waving

    1. E*

      On the same scale, I keep thinking someone is preying on him. I would absolutely start looking into who has been around ‘helping’ since dad died and what that looks like. The whole post made me feel so icky.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Ding ding ding!
        It could “just” be the manosphere and porn but he is being exposed to inappropriate sexual content. Also not that predators look for troubled kids like this (see Jerry Sandusky’s “charity”) and hate groups also seek them out to radicalize.

    2. Jellyfish Catcher*

      I agree with you regarding the son’s behavior and red flags. But it’s not the sister’s duty.

      Her duty is to separate from this toxic situation and forge a decent life for her future. She’s sounds brave and decent and I wish her well.

    3. Ellie*

      Has anyone actually spent a decent amount of time around kids of this age? As a teacher I’ve constantly had to tell hundreds of kids younger than this (think 10-11) to stop it with the constant sexual comments, noises, simulated behaviors, etc.

      I don’t agree with it by any means, but most kids are exposed to porn and pornographic content before the age of 10, regardless of parental controls on devices for the reasons commenters above have discussed (friends, older siblings/cousins, a rather simple Google search when mom lets them play with their cell phone, etc). This kid’s behavior is clearly a problem, but in no way is it beyond normal for that age or an alarming red flag for future predatory behavior. If that was the case, 90% of the 10-14 year old students I’ve dealt with over the years would be sex offenders in the making and that’s simply not the case.

      1. Suze*

        This is what I thought too. The only thing that sounds alarming is the sexual harassment, but it is unclear if this was basically the same stuff already described, but in front of or at specific girls. It is not necessarily predator territory, but possibly a spoiled or hurting child’s call for attention. It is easy to say that the LW should cut off her mom or brother but after being a forced to be a parent figure for a few years, that is surely difficult emotionally. Maybe LW can get some therapy herself to help her enforce boundaries while showing some compassion for her brother.

  59. Scott*

    With regards to giving your manager a heads up, with all of the boundary stomping, you may want to think about “what are we going to do when mom tries to drop little brother off at the office even after being told not to?”

  60. Jennifer Juniper*

    OP, be prepared for her to drop off Brother Dear at your job. In that case, call the police and report that there’s an abandoned child at your office. Mommie Dearest will be passed, but it will be the last time she pulls that stunt. You can also block her from your phone and online.

  61. Heffalump*

    She simultaneously thinks I don’t do enough to control him, while any actual consequences I give him always get me a “why did you have to be so meeeeeean to him?”

    The LW is damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t.

    My father died when I was 10, and I wouldn’t have dared to make the remark about the zebra, however sex-obsessed I may have been.

    Sexually harassing a classmate at age 13 is quite an accomplishment, in the bad sense of the word.

  62. Honeybadger*

    OP – I think it might help you draw the boundary with your mom if you changed the narrative in your mind a bit. There is no circumstance where this is an acceptable request from your mother. None. Your brother could be an absolute saint and it’s still a no starter. You do not have to come at this by providing evidence that your brother is the love child of Satan and Godzilla. His behavior, good or bad, is irrelevant. Forget your brother’s behavior and focus on the fact that it is an unacceptable request. Do not provide explanations to your mother outside of that. A possible script: Mom – this is not an acceptable ask for you to make. There is no circumstance where it would be an acceptable request. I am not going to debate this with you. You need to deal with your son and the after school care issue in another manner. You do not have permission to drop him at my office or otherwise instruct him to come there after school. If he does, I will notify CPS.
    It sounds like you most likely live at home still which makes this more difficult. You have some decisions to make. But solving your mom’s after school care arrangements for your brother isn’t one of them. I would mention this to my boss simply by saying hey, this is what is going on. I know this is a non starter but because mom overstepped and called Jane, I thought you should be aware that she might try having him show up here without my permission and I’ll have to deal with that.

  63. Justin*

    While the sympathetic part of me feels for the woman because she’s clearly traumatized by losing the dad and handling it… poorly, unfortunately, the world suffers from men who were never challenged as they developed (some of whom lost their dads, and some who didn’t), so, uh, she’s got to cut this out.

    But of course, OP also lost their dad, so it’s not like only mom has suffered.

    As for OP, tell your boss. It might make you feel better. I am sorry you’re dealing with this.

    (And brother’s behavior is not okay though I do understand he’s probably acting out and he absolutely could be course-corrected if supported effectively. I hope it happens.)

  64. Alex*

    Oh, I see my mom has a twin out there somewhere.

    As a veteran of a boundary-stomping, guilt-trip expert mother, I second all of this advice. Don’t try to reason with your mother–you can’t reason with unreasonable people (and only unreasonable people would CALL THEIR KID’S EMPLOYER for something like this). The answer is no. And also clearly state that if she tries to have the kid dropped off in spite of the no answer, you will have to have security/the police escort him from the property. Don’t wait for her to actually do that–tell her the consequences beforehand. Yes, she will make your life miserable for a while and tell you you are a bad person for not complying, but you are NOT a bad person. This is a very reasonable boundary for you to set.

  65. Pay no attention...*

    The OP sounds like a young adult who still lives with mom, and mom believes that she has leverage to require help from her adult child. So I’m sure the 13-year-old brother is a PITA…well, because almost all 13-yr-olds are feral a**holes as they navigate puberty, even with great parenting. But he’s also old enough to be involved in this problem. Sit mom and brother down and tell them that you won’t risk losing your job regardless of whether the receptionist told mom that (emphasize) Well-Behaved Children might be acceptable, but brother was already kicked out of one after-school solution, so this is brother’s problem to solve especially since acting out in order to get kicked out of something he doesn’t want to do is pretty on target for a 13-yr-old. Is there a non-school-affiliated program in your city — Big Brother, basketball club, Boys and Girls club, church group?

      1. Jellyfish Catcher*

        And…II would assume / hope that those types of programs would check backgrounds of the kids before bringing them onboard.

        1. metadata minion*

          Is that standard? I would assume they do background checks of the adult staff, or of teens who are working as camp counselors and such, but I would be very surprised if they do background checks on children.

  66. bamcheeks*

    I’m very open to hearing other perspectives on this, but personally I think the advice to call CPS is very misplaced. You can’t use CPS as a “gotcha” to try and enforce boundaries on someone: it’s not their role, and it’s also likely to be pretty traumatising for the kid: “my mum dumped me here, and my sister called CPS, and CPS told her that this didn’t rise to the level of CPS issue.” The message here for your brother is that nobody gives a shit about him and everyone is trying to dump him off on someone else. That’s a really shitty, shitty thing to happen to a 13 year old kid who is having a hard time anyway.

    I do think your mom might try something like that, so I would strategise an alternative plan to handle it. If you have a decent boss and you trust your employer, I would give them a heads-up that your mom might try this, and that if she does you will leave work immediately to take your brother home (or to wherever your mom is), and then handle it with her, making sure to stress that you cleared this with your boss but that if it happens again, your job WILL be at risk. This hopefully demonstrates to your mom that you’ve got a firm boundary here — as well as a manager who supports you — but still demonstrates to your brother that you are prioritising him. Or you could think of a friend or family member who you could call to come and get him immediately– someone you trust, who is known to your brother but who your mom would be embarrassed to have bothered. Again, that’s asserting a boundary to your mom, but still showing your brother that he has a community of people who care about it. (He won’t appreciate it, because he’s 13. But 13-year-olds don’t know how much they need that.)

    Either way, if you have a decent boss and you can trust them, I would give your boss a heads-up. You will be stronger in your response to your mom if you know you have your manager on your side supporting you with holding that boundary.

    But also, if you can do it whilst still showing your brother that you’ve got his back– longterm, that’s the kind of stuff that might make a lot of difference to him. You shouldn’t have to, it’s not your job — but if you can, it’s worth doing.

    2. H.Regalis*

      Yeah, that’s the thing. Telling LW “Don’t call CPS but also set boundaries with your mom and don’t parent your brother” is pretty useless. Helping LW come up with some alternatives is good.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I can’t tell if this is agreeing or disagreeing!

        FWIW, I think this is a horrible situation and there are no good options for LW, but as far as possible I’d try to a) be a stable person for her brother and show him that someone cares and b) figure out what her mom cares about, and be ruthless about exploiting it to enforce your boundaries. She likes to project that she’s a great mom at work? Show up and politely tell her in front of her colleagues that she can’t leave your brother at her work. She cares a lot about what family thinks? If you have sensible grandparents, aunts and uncles or family friends, get them on side. She needs the rent you pay? Make it clear that this plan is a threat to your job. Basically, made it hard, inconvenient or embarrassing FOR HER to push your boundaries.

    3. Velawciraptor*

      THANK YOU!

      Neither CPS nor the police (another suggestion I’ve seen here) are meant to be anyone’s life concierge, enforcing boundaries, making people be nice to you, and otherwise smoothing out life’s challenges.

      Moreover, getting them involved can be both traumatic and dangerous, particularly in the current political environment.

      1. H.Regalis*

        Okay, but what are some alternatives that aren’t “LW, you’re your brother’s mom now”? Telling them “Don’t do this because it’s bad but also I have no other options for you” isn’t helping.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          bamcheeks laid out some potential alternatives:

          If you have a decent boss and you trust your employer, I would give them a heads-up that your mom might try this, and that if she does you will leave work immediately to take your brother home (or to wherever your mom is), and then handle it with her, making sure to stress that you cleared this with your boss but that if it happens again, your job WILL be at risk. This hopefully demonstrates to your mom that you’ve got a firm boundary here — as well as a manager who supports you — but still demonstrates to your brother that you are prioritising him.

          Or you could think of a friend or family member who you could call to come and get him immediately– someone you trust, who is known to your brother but who your mom would be embarrassed to have bothered. Again, that’s asserting a boundary to your mom, but still showing your brother that he has a community of people who care about it. (He won’t appreciate it, because he’s 13. But 13-year-olds don’t know how much they need that.)

          (I broke the two suggestions into two separate paragraphs for ease of reading, but they originally both appear in the second paragraph of bamcheeks’s comment.)

          1. H.Regalis*

            Oh, that was meant as a direct reply to Velawciraptor. I read bamcheeks’ comment and I think it was good.

          2. Jellyfish Catcher*

            Mom does’t care about sister’s job; in fact she may be trying to sabotage it, so the sister would be back home to being substitute mommy.
            As for who comes to get him – is that going to be daily or any time brother walks into sister’s job building?
            No, it’s not practical or sustainable. The business also deserves that this is not
            a repeated action or commotion.

          3. allathian*

            The problem here is that the mom doesn’t care about the LW’s job. She may even be actively sabotaging it. If the LW gets fired, she will almost certainly have to move back home if she’s moved out, and she’ll have to parent the brother without being allowed to actually discipline him.

            Quite frankly, the mom should be sued for child abandonment. She’s the one who’s the parent and who’s abdicating her parenting responsibilities.

            The sexual harassment was severe enough that the brother was banned from extracurriculars. I fear it’s only a matter of time before he’s in juvenile court for sexual abuse.

    4. Temperance*

      The brother needs some kind of professional intervention before he becomes a predator. I’m less worried about him feeling loved than what harm he’s causing to girls at school, to be totally frank.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I agree, but the best chance of getting that kind of support is either thrpugh a private referral or through school. It’s not clear whether LW has the power to pursue either of those things. And there’s pretty much zero chance that a n “emergency “ call to CPS about an unaccompanied 13yo is going to do it. That’s almost certainly going to count a nuisance call, not trigger the kind of support that this kid needs.

    5. Jellyfish Catcher*

      I strongly disagree; this just dumps the brother problem riiiight back on the sister.

      It also expands all this drama, risk and harassment it to the business, the manager and various staff. And it will get the sister fired.
      Sadly, it would be the appropriate decision to dismiss a staff member who is bringing Huge Personal Drama daily into the business.

      1. Jackalope*

        No it is NOT the right decision to let someone go because they have a manipulative or abusive family member (or stalker, ex, etc.) who is using their job to try to control them. The appropriate response is to support that employee and not allow the other person to have access to them, including banning them if needed.

  67. 3-foot tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

    OP – here’s a mantra for you: “Never JADE.” Don’t Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain, because look at what your mother did when you gave her a reason! She’ll do it with any reason, she’ll do it with any argument. Your only answer is “No.” The reason why is “no,” the answer to “what if there’s an emergency?” is “no,” the answer to “You’re heartless” is “no” etc. She only wants you to give reasons so she can shoot them down.

    I think you should tell your manager, but leave the family connections out, just in case the manager is sentimental about family ties. The work-related problem here is that someone you know is pressuring you to babysit a disruptive teenager during company time on company property simply because you are closest to the school. You are refusing, but you want your manager to know the situation in case it escalates.

    I also think you should tell your manager that want them to tell the receptionist to call social services if said teenager is dropped off and abandoned or wanders in on their own.

    Also, you don’t say OP, but if you’re living in this chaotic household, I hope you can get out of it ASAP.

  68. Audrey*

    I want to add (and I think others have said it too) — make a plan for what you’ll do if she tells your brother to show up at your office. The answer should not be let him stay there.

  70. Too many dogs*

    My first thought was: If this no big deal, why doesn’t Mom take him to work with her? I agree with everybody — tell your manager now, so when Mom escalates this, you have a plan with backup.

    2. Pay no attention...*

      I would actually assume mom works and her job doesn’t allow kids — as Alison pointed out, most don’t. It’s odd that the OP’s job said single parents could bring their kid(s) into the office. OP must not be in a standard business office — like an accountant or bank — so maybe it’s a place where children are already there — like a library or sports facility.

  71. Pigeon*

    OP, you k ow the situation and the best way to handle it, but would your mom hear a clear “that’s not allowed.”? You followed up, kids in office are only allowed to be there with their actual parent, so sorry. I get that it’s not a perfect solution and boundaries need to be practiced, but I think with a boundary stomper like your mom, an appeal to authority can give you some breathing room.

  72. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    I’ve dealt with unreasonable family members trying to offload their kids onto me (“you’re disabled and stuck at home so you can look after him all day!” err no) and can confirm there is NO explanation that they’ll accept you’re in the right to refuse.

    None. Anything you say will be met with either ‘workarounds’ or attacks on your empathy or lack thereof. Dumping your out of control brother (sorry I have zero sympathy for sexual harrassers) on you at work is beyond the pale but she won’t accept that. The answer is just ‘no. I’m not allowing that’ and then turn away/walkaway/hang up the phone.

    As to work, depending on how much you trust your boss, it’s not a bad thing to have a quiet word when you’re being threatened by a family member and ask them if they can put some security measures in place – like if your mum calls she’s not to be told anything about your work and if she shows up and drops your brother off they’re to call the relevant authorities and not you.

    Safety plans aren’t just for abuse victims. I wish you luck.

    1. Bananapants Modiste*

      Thank you, Keymaster, for what you said.
      The words of survivors mean a lot.
      I wish I had read the advice you and many others supplied here when I was a young adult.
      I managed to say no and fight my way out (former punk chick here), but I suffered from a lot of guilt from that.

  73. JFC*

    My former boss has a son who was around OP’s brother’s age when his dad died. My boss and the dad were never married, but they were close friends with a great relationship. Her son had always struggled to fit in, but his behavior escalated after his dad’s death. Now, he’s 19 with a drug problem, anger issues and a criminal record. He barely graduated after getting kicked out of two schools. He would often come to the office after school with his mom/my boss, although he didn’t get much supervision because of her job duties.

    OP, I fear your brother will wind up in the same situation if you have him come to your office. Not only is it against your company’s policy and would be disruptive, you won’t be doing him, yourself or your family any good because you won’t be able to give him the attention he needs. Tell your boss what’s going on, set firm boundaries and make a plan for when (not if) your mom drops your brother off without warning. Anything less will make things worse for your brother in the long run.

  74. Maxie's Mommy*

    Your boss could phone your mother and say that he understands that she called the office but Jane the receptionist misspoke when she said kids were allowed. He can say that the company’s insurance doesn’t allow minors due to the liability, and again, Jane was wrong. Boss understands there may be a dispute about babysitting a minor, but Boss needs you to focus on your work so no minors will be allowed. And lastly, if minor were to be dropped off, Boss would have no choice but to call Child Protective Services.

    3. An American(ish) Werewolf in London(ish)*

      Sorry, I do NOT agree here. The boss should not phone the mother or get involved with the mother AT ALL – mother would likely try manipulation of said boss (might not succeed but would almost certainly try) and there could also be repercussions both at home (assuming OP lives with Mom) and at work (I wouldn’t want to talk to an employees mum on their behalf, that’s for sure!)

      I think boss should know that mum might show up unexpectedly, or kid might show up and they should in no circumstances be allowed in, but really, that’s about what can be expected (along with I hope an understanding attitude to OP!)

      I think it also highly likely that kid has a mobile phone himself – if he isn’t let in he can phone his mum himself to be picked up. He’s not 5.

      There is truly no perfect answer to this that will serve everyone involved perfectly, I fear.

  75. iglwif*

    Older daughter in a single-parent family, with multiple friends who grew up in similar situations, checking in. If I sound like I’m shouting, it’s because I am so outraged on OP’s behalf.

    – DO NOT give your mom a potential loophole by saying it might be OK in an emergency but not every day. Just say it’s not OK at all.
    – It doesn’t matter what the receptionist said about moms bringing their kids in: Your brother is NOT YOUR KID.
    – Your brother would almost certainly benefit from therapy and/or behavioural intervention, but it is NOT YOUR JOB to make that happen.
    – If you are still living with your mom, perhaps take this latest escalation as a sign to laser-focus on finding a way to move out. Some things are worse than an annoying roommate.
    – Definitely loop in your manager! Not for advice or help, but because if your mom is willing to call reception as part of her campaign, she’s probably willing to do other inappropriate things, like contacting other people at your workplace or telling your brother you said it’s OK to show up at your work after school, and you want your manager to be forewarned if/when that happens.
    – Related to the above: From the perspective of any reasonable person, your mom’s behaviour is (a) unreasonable and inappropriate and (b) hers to own and no reflection on you.

    1. Ms. Eleanous*

      13 year old can take the bus home or ride his bike. Or walk.
      He’s 13. I don’t think he’s a snowflake; more like a burr.

      Or, the mom can find some other activity for him to go to.

      1. iglwif*

        If a 13yo is not able to get himself home and be home alone for a couple of hours, there is something going on with that 13yo.

        And it definitely sounds like there is something going on here!

        But it’s not OP’s issue to fix.

  76. MsMaryMary*

    Apologies if this is off topic, but wouldn’t a 13 year old be fine by themselves after school? Not to be too Kids These Days, but I was babysitting other people’s children on my own at 13.

    It sounds like this particular 13 year old might need extra support, but I’m curious if I’m off base. People are talking about calling CPS if OP’s mom drops off Dear Brother, but would CPS intervene in a situation like this?

    1. WellRed*

      In theory he should be able to stay by himself but I wonder if his behavior is contributing to the need for babysitting. The comments to call CPS are typical of this forum. This isn’t a CPS situation in most areas. He’s fed, clothed and housed. That’s pretty much the bar.

      1. Dahlia*

        Who would you suggest a business call if a random customer left a child unsupervised on their premise?

        1. Kevin Sours*

          A high school aged kid? I’d tell the kid to leave and ask if they wanted to call somebody to come get them.

        2. Antilles*

          That’s not the same scenario. A completely random kid who you have no contact information from the parents, no idea where they live, etc, then yes, call CPS or the police and let them handle it.
          But in this scenario, the involvement of CPS/police would be to show up, ask the kid a couple questions, then as soon as it comes out that he’s OP’s brother, they would just hand him over to OP’s custody and expect OP to deal with it. Which doesn’t actually solve OP’s problem.

          1. Kevin Sours*

            This isn’t a toddler we’re talking about. Calling the authorities is an extreme reaction to a teenager existing somewhere. Maybe start with *asking* them what’s going on, letting them know they need to leave, and help them contact somebody if they need to.

        3. metadata minion*

          I would just tell a 13-year-old to leave, and offer to call a parent/taxi/look up the bus schedule/etc. if they needed help getting home. Yes, they’re a minor, but when I hear “unsupervised child” I assume you’re talking about a frightened five-year-old, not someone who probably goes to the store or the library on his own all the time.

    2. Nonsense pt2*

      Illinois is the only state that says a 13 year old cannot be left alone. And ordinarily, yes, most 13 year olds should be fine to be left alone from 3 to 6, or whenever school lets out to when the parents come home. Leaving this 13 year old unsupervised, however, is clearly a Very Bad Idea, regardless if it’s legal in their state.

      CPS is also not going to be much help here, not unless things get a lot worse – again, it’s most likely legal for him to be left alone at his age, and the bar for endangerment is gets higher and higher as kids get older. If they did somehow become involved, they would likely require counseling, parenting classes, and therapy, not separation. But that’s a huge if.

      1. Kevin Sours*

        As somebody mentioned elsewhere even the IL law comes with caveats means it probably doesn’t apply to a 13 years being left alone for a few hours after school.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I think if he were capable of being trusted at home by himself, he would not have behaved so badly to be kicked out of extracurriculars. This kid is constantly acting out, and may well endanger himself or others if unsupervised.

      I have seen so many kids in this age range and younger, who seem to be trying very hard to get *someone* to notice, as if to say, “How far are you really going to let this go before you do something?” It is very scary to be a kid with nobody looking out for you, and if kids can’t get engagement by good behavior, they will seek it by bad behavior.

    4. JFC*

      I had the same thought. I’m in my early 40s and I was definitely left home alone for a few hours here and there if the situation called for it. However, I do think the brother’s behavior here makes a big difference. The mom is out of her gourd on a lot of levels, but at least she seems to recognize that it’s not a safe situation to leave him alone even if she might otherwise consider him old enough.

    5. iglwif*

      Yeah typically you would 100% expect a 13yo to be fine getting themselves home and being unsupervised at home for a couple of hours. My child was doing this at age 9, as were many of her classmates … but then there were also a few whose parents insisted they must be fully adult-supervised until, like, middle school. Kids vary, parents vary, social norms vary.

      This kid certainly seems like he might get up to some shenanigans unsupervised. But on its own, I would not expect “unsupervised 13yo” to be something CPS/Children’s Aid would feel like they needed to get involved with.

  77. Temperance*

    OP, talk to your receptionist. There’s a non-zero chance that your mother is lying and never actually spoke to her. Think about it – you very likely work with some single parents. Do you see any kids at the office regularly? She doesn’t want your brother at her workplace, so she’s trying to dump him on you. She doesn’t trust him to be alone because he’s a perv.

    13 is more than old enough to be alone for a few hours. It’s telling that he can’t be. He needs therapy like yesterday before he becomes a full-on predator.

    2. EvilQueenRegina*

      The other thing I wondered was whether mother was representing accurately what the receptionist actually said.

      1. Jinni*

        This. I worry that OP is worrying about something that may not have happened. As someone with manipulative family members, they often say – other people said X to support what outrageous thing they want to do. I’d loop in the boss, but leave Jane out of it. *if* Jane is someone you think you can trust, I’d ask if your mother called, but make it some superficial – route calls to me type thing and not get into the meat of it. I’d leave that to your boss or whatever safety type person addresses unwanted calls/visits.

  78. Bbbbbbbbb*

    I am highly distressed that your mother isn’t addressing the fact that her 13 year old son is sexually harassing other students. THAT should be foremost on her list. Your brother has some serious issues that can/should be addressed now while he is relatively young–and as your described, he has some serious boundary and impulse issues. As disgusted as all the readers appear to be with mom and son here, I hope he gets the help he needs. He is still a child… your mom … well, you’ve got great advice on boundary setting above. But she needs help too. Best to all of you.

  79. Crencestre*

    Retired special education teacher here: By all means stick to your guns! AND loop in your manager as well – if Jane doesn’t mention your mother’s call (?!), you do NOT want your manager to be blindsided by a call from Mommy Dearest demanding that she be allowed to foist off Brother Dearest onto you WHILE YOU’RE WORKING! (Seriously, who does that?!)

    That being said, OP, I really hope that your brother gets some professional help. Some of what you described sounds like pretty typical immature, feelings, middle school boy stuff, but the sexual harassment that he refused to stop even though it meant getting banned from after-school activities is another matter, and a lot more serious. He needs to stop that before he’s faced with adult-level consequences for what will increasingly be perceived as dangerous, threatening behavior. This is your mother’s responsibility – NOT yours! – but your brother really does need help, and I hope he gets it soon.

    1. Resentful Oreos*

      Thank you! Mom needs to get help for her son, NOW. While making a talking plushie say naughty things is par for the middle school boy course, sexually harassing a fellow student to the point where he’s banned from after school activities is *not.* I know that OP probably has limited leverage, but I think it’s important that Brother get help now, while he’s still young enough and a minor, to not have great big real-world adult consequences.

      Parents don’t do their kids any favors by coddling and enabling them. Once you turn 18, legally, you are an adult and face adult consequences. It’s much easier to overcome really really bad mistakes or wrongdoings when one is still legally a minor, punishments are less, and records can be expunged. I think this is one reason you hear some young adults on social media wail that they’re still children/minors when they are over 18 – they never got to make bad mistakes or have bad judgment while they had that safety net of minorhood, and now, they are adults, who “should know better,” and face adult consequences.

      I hope OP’s mom gets help for Brother while he’s still young and can have second and third chances and learn from his mistakes without Big Honking Consequences.

      1. Rainy*

        Experiencing any consequences from school administration for his behavior suggests to me that what they’re calling sexual harassment is probably something much, much worse.

  80. Concerned Citizen*

    Maybe this is just the obnoxious behavior of a burgeoning teen whose hormones are in overdrive and overwhelming his brain. But the sexualized nature of all the described misbehaviors worries me. Is anyone else worried that this is an expression of some kind of grooming, abuse, or other mature situation he’s not sharing?

      1. boof*

        I admit my youngest is only 12 but maybe making a toy say “poop” might be typical; the recurrent serious sexual behavior problems that are stopping him from after school activities sound like a major red flag!

      2. Kevin Sours*

        Some boundary testing is expected but this seems pretty extreme. That fact that all of the examples show sexualized behavior is troubling especially leading up to the harassment. This kid is a problem in the making.

      3. Jellyfish Catcher*

        Uh, I’d disagree. I raised a boy, and they can be aware of some basic rules about how to treat other people.

    2. Indolent Libertine*

      I think it’s equally likely that he’s been watching toxic bro stuff on YouTube. This behavior is increasingly common in middle school boys everywhere.

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        That’s what I thought. I’ve known of overworked, single parents who just let their kid(s) have unfettered access to YouTube because they’re too tired or frazzled to supervise or install parental controls. The result is as you can imagine.

        Especially if Bro has been barred from after school programs, it’s very likely he is being or has been babysat by screens.

    3. Ditto on that*

      I share your concern, but I feel like the more likely problem is that this kid has unsupervised access to the Internet, especially given the LW’s mention of the brother following a TikTok trend. I believe the kids these days call it “brain rot” or “porn rot.”

      Hoping I’m correct for the brother’s sake.

  82. Possum's mom*

    Why can’t OP’s mom watch her own child after school? Why is it the expectation for OP to disrupt her job life instead of the child’s mother adjusting HER work schedule to accommodate the afternoons?

  83. Ms. Eleanous*

    OP, I am in your corner.

    Goals protecting your job, your co workers, and your sanity.

    It is OK for your mother/brother’s reputation to be outed..
    Managers have heard this before – stalkers, angry exes, etc.
    Keeping the craziness of your family a secret should not be a goal at all.

    Stand your ground.
    Avoid your mother.
    ( a second job?)

    1. Kevin Sours*

      While outing craziness isn’t something to be avoided if necessary, it isn’t in this case and getting into it isn’t going to be to anybody’s benefit. Really all that needs to be conveyed at this point is that OP said no, Mom isn’t taking no for an answer, OP doesn’t approve of Mom’s behavior and regrets that it’s spilling over to the workplace.

      If Mom escalates or Brother actually shows up it may be necessary to get into more details but generally you want to minimize the level of drama that gets dragged into work.

  84. Pomodoro Sauce*

    Good luck OP!

    It’s always wise to prepare for a world where your mother will just drop your brother in your lap.
    – If you’re ever offsite, claim that your work offsite is more common, irregular, and often on short-notice. Volunteer for additional offsite work.
    – Stop answering or reading texts from your mom while you’re at work. Limit her avenues for communicating with you.
    – Figure out what you’ll do if your brother shows up at your job — see if he’s old enough to put in an Uber and send home according to ride TOS (I think probably no?). Figure out if you could take a long break and drive him somewhere where he’d be safe. Figure out what would happen if he showed up at your job while you weren’t there and what the likely fallout would be.

    I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

  85. latchkeykid*

    OP, I just want to say that you are not being selfish or a bad daughter or a bad sister. A 13-year-old knows right from wrong. It’s not your responsibility to deal with the consequences of your brother’s actions (or mother’s inaction). You obviously love your family, but you don’t have the tools to “fix” this situation. You’re not a therapist. Please read more about setting boundaries, I have a feeling you are going to need that when dealing with both of them for the rest of your life. You sound like a smart, responsible person who deserves the chance to be successful; not held back or pulled down into their dysfunctional relationship.

  86. Jojo*

    Op- there is a lot of good advice in the comments, but I just want to say that I’m sorry you are experiencing this. I was parentified, and my mom truly believed that her children/grandchild had no right to ever say no to her. Things got so bad at one point that my siblings and I all ended up going no contact with her, and she took extreme measures to drag us back in. (She skipped the threats of self harm, and went directly to real self harm that would require some trigger warnings if I wanted to explain.)

    In addition to hoping you can get away from this situation, I hope going forward, you can find healing. I want to add, because of some of the comments I’m seeing about your brother, yes, it’s clear your brother needs help/therapy. But, that’s not your problem to solve. In fact, it’s very likely that it’s not a problem that you could solve even if you wanted to. So while your brother’s behavior is concerning, it’s probably out of your hands to fix it. So please don’t take that on as something you feel responsible for.

    If you do live with your mom, try to find a way to move out. Once you are out from under her roof you will have a greater ability to enforce boundaries. Once you are in a position where you can really enforce boundries, you will start to find freedom. Therapy can also help with recovering from being parentified.

    1. K Smith*

      1000% agree!

      OP, your mom’s behavior towards you and your brother is *not normal*, and it’s *not healthy*. It’s rough to grow up like this, because you probably didn’t have a good frame of reference for how a healthy, well-adjusted, responsible mom should behave.

      You’re clearly on the right track though: keep seeking advice and perspective – friends, mentors, fantastic internet-advice-givers, books, etc.

      One thought experiment I’ve found helpful: if you had kids, would you try to protect them from your mom’s manipulative behavior? Would you limit your child’s interactions with your mom? If ‘yes’, consider taking actions to protect *yourself* from your mom’s behaviors.

      Like many other commenters have advised, it’s OK to put up firm boundaries against these completely unreasonable requests from your mom. Easier said than done, though! Good luck OP, and be kind to yourself.

      1. Bananapants Modiste*

        ” if you had kids, would you try to protect them from your mom’s manipulative behavior? Would you limit your child’s interactions with your mom? If ‘yes’, consider taking actions to protect *yourself* from your mom’s behaviors”

        This is a good thought.

    2. Anon for CA*

      Therapy can definitely be helpful, if you have the bandwidth for it and can find a good provider. Others have also mentioned Captain Awkward, which I’d endorse as well.
      If you want to do some reading, LW, without having to consider what specifically your mom’s issues are, I can also recommend Lindsay Gibson and her book(s) for “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents”. She doesn’t really get bogged down it what exactly might be diagnosably wrong with the parents in question, just works from the premise that parental behavior as described in the letter certainly cannot be considered reasonable or mature. She discusses stuff like parentification and the coping methods kids develop in families like that. Iirc she has at least one example of a client that also was constantly expected to step in in their parents stead for their sibling.
      So I’m fully endorsing what Jojo said regarding your brother “But, that’s not your problem to solve.”

  87. Jane*

    LW, this is “go no contact and do not give out home and work addresses” behavior. And it sounds like your mother is going to show up to your job at some point, probably with your brother in tow. I would definitely give your boss and HR a heads up so that they know she may show up, and admin or security should be alerted, as well.

    Also, LW, please get yourself in some therapy. There is an awful lot of parentification and emotional immaturity coming from your mother. I’m so sorry.

  88. CzechMate*

    I’m so sorry you’re going through this, OP. It….sounds like your brother needs counseling, and until that happens definitely shouldn’t be in the workplace (never mind everything else).

    I would imagine you can approach this the same way an employee would approach having a stalker–mention it privately to the relevant parties (as Alison suggests) and say you’re aware of the situation, that you’re working on taking care of it externally, but give the office the relevant details so they can screen the calls and visits from your family.

  89. hotg0ss*

    What’s not entirely clear to me is whether OP still lives at home. I hope not, because it’s so much easier to set these kinds of boundaries when you can physically step away from the offending person(s). Like everyone else on this thread, I’m pretty convinced that the brother is going to be dropped off at work, and the responses about calling CPS aren’t off base…but they’re also likely way more complicated if OP is still at home.

    Unrelated to work- some of the behavior you describe your brother exhibiting reminds me of the kind of toxic manosphere garbage that’s indoctrinating young boys. Sexual harassment that he won’t stop? Inappropriate sexual comments and behavior? I hope someone (NOT YOU) is monitoring his online activity, and I hope he’s able to access some interventions before it goes even more off the rails.

    1. Rainy*

      Unfortunately, this is a thing that does happen with boundary-stomping family members (and occasionally friends, but usually family). Usually it’s people shoving their kids out of the car at the house of a family member (sibling, parent, what-have-you) and then speeding off gleefully for kid-free time with the idea that if the kid is there and the parent has left, the family member will have to watch them, and bar none the best response is to call the police non-emergency line and report that a child has been dumped.

      I’ve heard of cases where this behavior escalated to the point that children were left in front of residences that people no longer lived at or in the lobby of workplaces people were no longer at, or left at their house but they were away etc. It’s generally best to nip this kind of thing in the bud so that it doesn’t end up happening in a situation where the child is actually endangered. And unfortunately, the kind of person who does this isn’t the kind of person you can have a rational discussion with, hence involving the authorities.

  90. PayRaven*

    Oh LW. I feel for you.

    If it helps, think about it this way: you are not “dragging your poor manager into” anything. Your mom is creating a disruption and possibly a safety hazard. You and your boss are on the same team: team That’s Not Happening. You’re not causing drama or in trouble, you’re sharing information that your team needs to be successful.

  91. Stay strong*

    The script is perfect. I would focus on “I can’t do my own job and watch him. I’m not willing to jeopardize my job over this.”
    This is so intermeshed, I can imagine OP is still living at home and supporting the household to some extent. This script plays nicely with the fear that OP might become an additional burden/ the household might lose money. This would be enough in a lot of cases to stop the behaviour.

    I’m so sorry, OP. Stay strong!

  92. Lana Kane*

    I would absolutely loop in the manager because:
    1 – Mom could escalate and OP could use some backing from leadership if Mom tries to drop off the kid.
    2 – The receptionist should NOT be answering employee policy questions to random callers. That needs to be addressed. (I have been a receptionist. Unless the person is very new to the role, this should never have been said to OP’s mom)

    1. Rainy*

      Yes to both. And VERY YES to 2–LW’s manager needs to know that this happened, because next time it might be the receptionist telling a coworker’s abusive spouse/partner where they are.

      1. Rainy*

        I want to amend this response because I agree with latchkey kid below–first check with the receptionist about this conversation, because the mum is definitely an unreliable narrator and confirming that the conversation even happened is a good idea, and then of course the content. It would be a serious security risk if the receptionist had said this, but if the receptionist is otherwise a reliable and professional person it seems odd that they’d break protocol like this.

  93. Specialist*

    I’ve also had boundary busting parents. I really hope that you do better than me in reining them in. I second all the other posters who have said do not discuss any possibility of watching him at all. I hope you can have a serious discussion with your mom about how badly she has overstepped. That never worked for me. So I would consider letting her read this thread. And please get a place of your own.

    Dear OP’s Mom: You have one child who is doing well. Are you trying to change that? Are you trying to get them fired? Expecting them to watch a misbehaving 13 year old while at work is absolutely ridiculous. You are showing that you don’t care about your older child at all. Do not call their work like that ever again. Get some help for your 13 year old. You should have done that already. Call the school for resources. You need a retired drill instructor to make the kid do homework with no devices after school.

  94. *daha**

    OP needs a plan for when Mother brings the child to the office. This means informing both the manager and the receptionist that the kid does not have clearance to come into the workplace, and giving them authorization to tell the mother that and bar the kid.

  95. KB*

    OP I wouldn’t even mention the “emergency situations only” thing – you are not his mother and so you can’t bring him to work. Ever. End of story. I would loop your boss in and say what Alison recommended but also suggest adding her number to the blocked callers list. Also maybe bring up that the receptionist is apparently telling strangers your HR policies over the phone.

  96. Rainy*

    LW, your mother is a jerk and she’s not going to change. You really need to get out ahead of this–let your manager know the outline of the issue and tell them that your brother needs to be refused entry to the building when he shows up after school. He *will* show up after school because your mother will tell him to do it. She’ll intend to force the issue and make you watch him, so you need to get in front of these attempts. Your brother isn’t allowed in the building. This is your workplace, not an afterschool program for the next Brock Allen Turner.

    Long-term, you need to get out of your mother’s house if you are still living with her, and start making it your life and career goal to get out of easy reach of her, SOON. If you are still in the same town by the time your brother is 15 or 16 you’re going to have even bigger problems, so start working on it now.

    1. Oh boi oh boi*

      Did I hear you say Brock Allen Turner? As in, the rapist Brock Allen Turner who is a rapist who has raped but got away because of his wealthy parents?

      1. Movies*

        I mean, it’s not a totally wild comparison? If this kid isn’t brought in line, he could wind up down that road, and sooner rather than later :-/ He’s already got a mom who doesn’t seem to give two butts about his getting banned from after-school activities because he kept sexually harassing a classmate.

        1. Rainy*

          Oh–no, Oh boi oh boi was agreeing with me by means of an SEO meme–google “brock allen turner” and you’ll see a ton of results.

  97. Engineer*

    OP – Is it possible your mom will tell your brother to just show up to your office? If so, you need a plan with your manager and receptionist if this were to happen.

  98. latchkeykid*

    “She only got to talk to the receptionist, but when my mom asked if single moms are allowed to bring their kids in, the receptionist confirmed that it was allowed. ”

    OP, Did you ask the receptionist if she actually had this conversation and what she said? Not the point of the post but I’d be curious to know if
    1. Your mother really did call and speak to the receptionist
    2. EXACTLY what the conversation was. I wouldn’t be surprised if mom is spinning the conversation in her favor. Like Alison suggested above, a toddler’s mom whose daycare closed unexpectedly is completely different than bringing your 13-year-old brother every day.

  99. Middle Name Jane*

    I promise I’m not trying to armchair diagnose, but I believe this kid needs a mental health evaluation ASAP. Repeatedly acting out in sexually inappropriate ways is a big red flag. This goes beyond harmless joking around. He was expelled from extracurriculars for sexual harassment.

    I get that the mother will probably not cooperate here, but I hope this boy gets some help. This is the kind of thing that can lead to criminal behavior.

  100. Hedgehug*

    Wow.
    You’re not his mom, you’re not his guardian. She’s out to lunch.
    He needs to be in therapy after school, not sitting in an office.

  101. Another Kristin*

    I don’t understand why he needs to be babysat at all at the age of 13 – it is completely normal for 13-year-olds to be home alone after school. I have a kid around the same age who comes home from school alone and spends the rest of the afternoon relaxing, doing homework, etc, until me or his father gets home. Is this an American thing? Do you really have to find after-school care for literal teenagers?

    Honestly, I don’t know your brother, but I do know kids this age, and it’s pretty common for them to say/do inappropriate things for attention. Putting him in a situation where he can do just that, but for a bigger audience – like, say, being in his older sibling’s office for an hour or two at the end of the day – is the worst thing you can do for him. Spending some time alone and learning to amuse himself would probably be good for him.

    Anyway, I’m sorry your mom is not rising to the challenge of parenting this particular kid very well, and that she’s trying to make it your problem. I think a quiet word to your boss isn’t a bad idea, that you’re having some family issues and your mother might try to dump your brother off at the office, but you’ve already told her that won’t work. Good luck :)

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Not all 13 year olds are created equal. It sounds like there may be enough behavioral issues with this kid that his mom isn’t comfortable leaving him alone, which regardless of her other faults may be the correct call.

    2. Jenesis*

      It’s not an American thing, as much as people may scream about the “nanny state” these days. I was walking myself home from school and quietly entertaining myself/doing homework until my parents got home at age 12. If the kid doesn’t live near enough to school to walk/bike home on his own there should be a bus system set up for the kids who can’t do extracurriculars (for lack of space, disability issues, or just general lack of interest).

      There’ve been good suggestions made in the threads above, and I’d like to add another one that worked for me: would it be geographically feasible for him to leave with a friend after school and wait at their house to be picked up? (And if he doesn’t have any friends, that’s indicative of another problem.)

  102. Nonsense pt2*

    I’m almost certain this kid acts like this precisely because he’s been left alone and unsupervised for so long before now. This is the result of bad parenting, not Americans vs ~enlightened~ Europeans. Their mother has clearly not enforced parental controls nor enforced any rules for his past behavior, and now that she has to deal with the consequences (him kicked out of extracurriculars) she’s trying to find a way to wriggle out of it – exactly the way she’s been raising him.

  103. Miss Demeanor*

    LW, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. It sounds like you are dealing with A Lot.

    I agree with all those here who say to tell your boss because your Mom is likely to contact them — not because you’ve done anything or will do anything wrong in saying no to her proposal, but because she sounds as if she’s gone a bit haywire about what is appropriate in the workaday world.

    As for your boss, they will appreciate the heads up —largely because they will appreciate that you and they are on the same page w/r/t saying no to your Mom about watching your teen-age brother. I doubt they’ll feel drawn into family drama. Your family still is dealing with the loss of your Dad. Most bosses (excepting some of the weirdo bosses discussed on this website) understand that grief can cause some bereaved folks like your Mom to not think straight. I am betting your boss is one of those people who will understand and be willing to help you deal with this request.

  104. animaniactoo*

    I think more important than “it’s for rare emergencies” is the point…

    1) Not if the child would be disruptive to the office

    2) YES MOM. Mothers can occasionally do this. I am not his mother. He is not my child.

    Which doesn’t mean that she’ll back off and you might really want to give your boss a head’s up – because you may be approaching the point (if you are not there already) where she is to be given no information about you, and her calls are never to be put through to you.

  105. Circus Monkey*

    To play devil’s advocate here, what if the brother comes to her work of/on his own accord since he does not seem to be listening to adult authorities

    1. Rainy*

      First of all, the devil has enough people speaking for him.

      Second, many *many* of us have said to get in front of this and let LW’s workplace know that Brother is not to be allowed in. That’s what if.

  106. Oniya*

    I’d think that a young teen who thinks it’s perfectly fine to make sexually charged comments in front of toddlers, classmates, and random strangers would be think it’s perfectly fine to make them in front of his sister’s co-workers. This would become an HR problem in a flash. Mom either isn’t making that connection, or is choosing to try to force this situation *despite* making it. Ignorance or malice – take your pick.

    LW, if you can, provide a picture of your brother to the security staff and the receptionist and tell them that under *no circumstances* is he to be allowed into the office space.

  107. Samwise*

    I would say something to my boss, because I can see this mom bringing in the brother, lying about why OP needs to take care of him (I have to go to the hospital to help my sister, for instance, or even, We thought we’d pop in for a quick hello!), and then hotfooting it out of there. You want pictures of mom and brother at reception so they know not to allow them in.

    As for what to say: my mom oversteps boundaries and wants my brother to stay at the office with me after school. My brother is not well-behaved and should not be allowed into the office for any reason whatsoever. I’m hoping she will not go so far as to send him here, but she might, so could we alert reception?

  108. Elizabeth West*

    What the receptionist said doesn’t even matter, because OP IS NOT THE PARENT. In fact, that is what I would say to Mom if she brings up what Jane said — “You’re his parent, not me. So parent him!”

  109. Ginger Cat Lady*

    So many people in this thread are saying “No is a complete sentence”
    But it’s a spectacularly unhelpful thing to say to someone who is struggling with someone who will not take no for an answer. She has said no. Multiple times and in multiple ways.
    So please think before you say that to someone as if they’ve never thought to say no.

  110. ThisIshRightHere*

    Hopefully this is not relevant in OP’s situation. But I would be very careful about calling law enforcement on a teenage boy–especially making any kind of reference to problematic behavior– if he belonged to a community that has historically been victimized by police brutality. As much as the little jerks in my neighborhood can get on my nerves when unattended by adults, I refuse to be the reason that they were shot on sight by a skittish cop.

  111. Molly*

    this is more in Dear Prudence’s area, but I’d tell Mom that if she involves herself in your job ever again you will cut off contact with her entirely

  112. Former Lab Rat*

    You have been place in an awful position. It’s going to take work on your part: 1) hard NO (as in HELL NO) to your mother. 2) loop in your boss in case your brother shows up anyway. ask what he would want to happen to unauthorized visitor. 3) does your work offer EAP counseling to give you tools to deal with boundary crossing mother? 4) both mother and brother should be in therapy. 5) as many others have pointed out if you can please move out of family home – can you find roommates to share an apartment? other family members in your town that can give you a room?

    I know someone else disagreed with calling CPS but if brother is not being parented by mother then they may have to get involved. The school punted on this problem by just banning him from after school activities. But who knows? Maybe the school told your mother some things she didn’t want to hear. Denial can be strong. Getting this kid help now could be a lifeline.

    Can you please, please update us in a few months? The AAM community does care!!

  113. Bartleby the scribbler*

    Have you considered whether your brother might have an undiagnosed disorder or something else affecting his behavior? I’ve been teaching students K-8 for 17 years. Although it’s fairly typical for 13-year-olds to be obsessed with sex, it’s not typical for them to act out to this extent.
    I’d consider two possibilities carefully:
    1. He should be evaluated for ADHD- I’ve seen it manifest with this type of impulse control problem before.
    2. You should also make sure that he hasn’t been inappropriately exposed to sexual material, or groomed or abused by an adult.
    Unfortunately, 13 year olds with uncontrolled access to the internet make very poor choices.

      1. Freya*

        And even if they were able to do it, it still doesn’t change the fact that the kid is not welcome to disrupt OP’s workplace.

      2. C*

        LW can call child services and report that their brother is showing potential signs of sexual abuse. Whether or not it will do any good at his age, I can’t say.

        In theory, LW can also discuss these concerns with their parents, but I somehow don’t see that as being very productive.

    2. HonorBox*

      Not disputing anything you’ve suggested in the possibilities you’ve outlined, the LW is a sibling and not the parent. In order to have those possibilities addressed correctly, the legal guardian would need to be the one to initiate. It doesn’t seem like mom wants to. It doesn’t seem like LW has the respect from her mom that suggesting this would be taken seriously. And it might backfire because mom might give up rights to LW, in which case LW’s worry about her brother coming to the office would be minor in comparison to the additional responsibility and worry.

      I feel bad for the brother. I’m sure there are serious and legitimate reasons for his behavior. But the LW needs to be able to disengage, not take on more.

      1. Rainy*

        Let’s not scare the LW with catastrophizing the legal situation! It is actually VERY hard for a parent to preemptively “give up rights” and LW’s parent absolutely could not “give up rights to LW” without LW both agreeing to and being instrumental in that process.

        LW, you don’t need to worry about this at all. If your mother should choose to try to end her legal responsibility to your brother, you’d be offered the option to start a kinship care situation, and you might even be pressured to do so, but no one can force you to take responsibility for your brother.

  114. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    In case the receptionist or manager might be too soft-hearted / feel pressured by mum to accept the boy, I’d head that off in advance by telling them he has behavioural problems (no need to be specific) which can be very disruptive.
    Tell her and them that if she still leaves him then you would immediately call CPS – and do so, because that boy needs help before he gets into trouble as a young adult.

  115. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

    LW: When you set this boundary, or any other, your mother may resort to calling you selfish, inconsiderate, or whatever other criticism of your character she expects you to deny.

    Arguing about your character is a trap. Skip right past “if you weren’t selfish, you would do what I.”

    The Captain Awkward approach is to agree with the accusation, and then restate your refusal: “you’re right, I am selfish, and also I’m not going to do that for you.” “Yes, I’m inconsiderate, so I’m not going to do X.” “Maybe this makes me selfish, but I’m not watching my brother at work.”

    1. Jinni*

      This works. I use it all the time. I call it a conversation ender because most people expect denial.

      I am, according to some, the most selfish, least sympathetic/empathetic person on earth and I’m totally okay with that.

      1. allathian*

        Thankfully I haven’t had to enforce boundaries like this with my family of origin or my in-laws.

        I’ve ended friendships and relationships because the people involved didn’t respect my boundaries, though. And that was before I had the words to express what I intrinsically understood. They guilted me into doing things I didn’t want to do and refused to accept my discomfort as a valid reaction. In the end, going no contact or letting the friendship fade by never issuing or accepting any invitations was the only way that worked. Thankfully I’ve never been stalked.

        With some people who go “If you weren’t selfish you’d do X” and who think that being selfish is the worst moral failure of them all it can also help to turn it around and say “If *you* weren’t selfish you wouldn’t insist that I do X.”

        I’m a reformed people-pleaser, although luckily not so much with my parents as with my peer group. My parents were, and are, decent people who seemed to genuinely care about us as human beings when my sister and I were kids, and while they’ve never been particularly demonstrative, I’ve never doubted their love.

        It was a safe environment to grow up in, they were the parents and we were the kids, but most of their rules and decisions never felt arbitrary, and I don’t think they ever resorted to a “because I say so” as a reason for a rule.

        They also genuinely enjoyed to see us grow up and never tried to infantilize us. They taught us essential life skills like being responsible for chores, budgeting, etc. They weren’t perfect by any means but they were reasonable enough in the freedoms they gave us and the expectations they made on us that I never felt the need to rebel. I’ve never seen my mom wear any makeup except lipstick, and that very rarely, so my teenage rebellious phase involved refusing to take out the trash unless I’d spent 30 minutes in front of a mirror painting my face first. I was well into my 30s before I realized that wearing lots of makeup in my teens and early 20s was my way of showing that my identity was separate from my mom’s. The older I got, the less makeup I wore, and now I’ve apparently turned into my mom because I haven’t worn any makeup since March 2020.

        I never broke the law because the people I wanted to be friends with wanted me to, but I did some things I later regretted doing when I was a young teen. I stopped when I realized that they were just taking advantage and that no matter what I did, I’d never be accepted as a peer by the cool kids’ group. Instead I eventually found my own group of uncool kids to hang out with who never pressured me to do anything I didn’t want to do.

  116. borealopelta*

    OP, I have nothing more to add to all the advice given above; I’m just popping in to say that I commend you for having the strength to deal with this behavior for so long, and the resilience to spring back and do as well as you’re doing. I know how hard it can be to set boundaries with family, and a bunch of strangers on the internet telling you “just say no” isn’t always an easy solution. I hope you can find compassion for yourself and understand that this is not your fault, that you are not responsible for this in any way; and that is also hard, I know, but you deserve to be cared for as well. I wish you all the best in dealing with this situation and any others, and hope that everything turns out well for you. Sending you love, from a random internet stranger. <3

  117. Not that other person you didn't like*

    The receptionist seems to be getting some flak here (though I admit I didn’t spin through every comment) but I’d suggest making her an ally. So “my mom doesn’t know from boundaries, her names is X — if she ever calls asking for me or manager, just take a message and I’ll handle it. If she by chance shows up with my brother, please note that I’m not a caregiver for him, so he can’t be left here with me. Thanks so much!”

    1. HonorBox*

      I think you’re right that the receptionist could be an ally. But they did open a door that they really shouldn’t have opened. They were probably answering the question with good intent, but it escalated an already bad situation for the LW. They can help in the future, but I think bringing the boss in to clarify that the policy is for parents, not siblings, and not for daily use.

  118. nnn*

    I agree with others that it’s possible OP’s mother might drop Brother off at the office anyway, and OP should make a plan for what sending him home would look like. Does he have a house key? Is it within walking distance? Is there transit? Do taxis take minors in your area? Possibly worth considering: how would he normally be getting home from school if he didn’t have an after-school activity?

    On top of all that, with the understanding that OP knows the personalities involved better than I do, it might be worth telling your brother directly “Mom might tell you to come to my office after school, but that’s not allowed. Even if Mom tells you it’s allowed, she’s wrong. If she tells you that, it would be better for you to go straight home because you wouldn’t be allowed into the office.”

    It’s possible if he’s given this heads-up, he might go straight home and not be OP’s problem. (He’s probably not allowed to be home alone for whatever reason, which is why this is an issue in the first place, but he’s also not allowed to be in OP’s workplace!)

  119. YoureDoingGreat!*

    You’re doing great! I echo the other sentiments to let your boss know and honestly, it will help so that they are not blindsided at some point or the receptionist lets him know. He may be able to cite certain safety/liability issues that you may not be aware of and would be relevant as well.

    Alternatively, is there any enrichment/volunteer/after-school opportunities near your office where you could leave and drop him for a few hours? It sounds like he could use a hand and while I don’t think it’s his workplace, maybe someone else (not you during work hours) keeps him busy.

  120. Marshmallow*

    If one of my employees explained the situation I’d be happy to clarify that no we do not allow people to routinely bring their kids to work. Even if it wasn’t true. If they needed out, I’d happily be the bad guy for them in this type of situation.

  121. Vipsania Agrippina*

    Someone already mentioned the blog of Captain Awkward, and I can second the recommendation. You also might want to take a look at the sub-reddit “EstrangedAdultKids”. There is quite a lot of negativity, but maybe you can feel related with what the people there went through. People there also share tips on how to get into safety/how to prepare to get there, which can be useful even if you only plan on distance yourself from your mother without estranging her.

  122. Wanderland*

    We’re barely 3 weeks into the year and we have a post for the end of year worse case voting.

  123. Betsy S.*

    Speaking as a single mom who struggled with a troubled (but not aggressive) teen:

    It’s a tough age to manage. School here lets out at 2:20 with too many noon dismissals and it’s a very rare full-time professional job that lets you get home after school. CPS and police here (US state) aren’t interested in unattended teenagers until/unless they catch them causing trouble. And this kid sounds like he’s on that path.

    There may be other after-school options (Boys and Girls Club, etc) but they aren’t jails and a disruptive kid will get banned. 13 is too young for a proper job, and he’s not who you want as a mother’s helper. I ended up hiring a former afterschool teacher as a ‘tutor’ for a couple of years, and then there were a couple of rough years with no great options.

    OP, agree about telling the boss and needed a plan, because he will show up. My plan would be to give him bus fare or call him a rideshare home. You’ve said NO, and your first responsibility is to yourself, to keep your job and secure your own independent future. I hope you have a path towards getting out of the house. You might find it helpful to get some counseling to help you feel stronger about establishing healthy boundaries. You can’t make your mother be a mother, but you can decide how you want to be as a daughter and a sister.

    If your mom were asking, I’d have more ideas, but she hasn’t taken responsibility yet.
    I’m afraid it will take a confrontation before she gives up this plan.

    Ideally, he needs some counseling, and an after-school program that is geared towards support.
    And something to redirect his energy, a job when he can get one. Possibly a serious martial arts program of the sort that focuses on self-discipline, if there’s one in your area.

    One other thing that nobody’s mentioned – you might talk to your brother. Take him out for coffee or something, like two young adults. Look him in the eye, listen to him. You’re the older sibling with a job and a paycheck, he’s got to admire and envy that. Ask him what he wants and if he’s thought about how to get there. You may be able to give him some advice on healthy relationships, once you’re talking. On some level he knows he’s learned some bad lessons about life and he’s floundering. At 13, he’s listening, even if he doesn’t show it.

  124. Raida*

    I would tell my boss, as I would if I had any other kind of harasser to deal with.

    This person could try to get in contact, this is what they want, this is why they can’t have it, this is why I’m saying no, this is not something we want at the office.
    If they are all “oh but faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamily” then I’d say I’m happy to pass along *their* details to babysit a teenage boy. No? Okay, I’m glad that’s clear.

  125. Freya*

    My sister and I went in to Dad’s office on a regular basis after school, because he was the parent who was in charge of taking us to sports stuff. However:
    a) he was a parent, not a sibling
    b) we were almost painfully well-behaved (where we might get caught) and needed very little supervision. The worst we ever did in Dad’s office was draw pictures on his whiteboard, and they were never anything you shouldn’t have in a highly paid professional’s office.
    c) there was a Procedure for how to get in to the office, because it was a secure area, that involved signing in with the security people.

    None of these seem to apply to your situation, OP, and I am 100% behind you saying no to the babysitting, and telling your boss that you are at work to work and you prefer to produce the best work you can (which is incompatible with your sibling being there) and asking how they would prefer you handle this in the workplace should it become needful. As with a number of other commenters, I’m also in favour of you finding some safe way to not be in the same house as the people putting this situation on you, separating your finances and securing your personal paperwork as much as possible (if there’s no better option, there’s a large, cheap cashbox you can get from hardware stores around here – big enough to take A4 paperwork – which, while it won’t stop a determined thief since they all seem to use the same keys, will at least make your stuff safer than if it’s loose or in someone else’s control).

  126. Pennyworth*

    I just re-read the letter – LW’s office is close to brother’s school, so it would be convenient for him to go there after school but it doesn’t say he can’t go to his mother’s office. If he does turn up unannounced, I’d suggest ordering an Uber from Reception to take him straight to Mom. Then send her a Venmo request for the fare.

  127. Roeslein*

    Are there no busses where OP lives? Why can’t the brother get himself home after school? I’m quite confused about the concept of needing childcare for a 13-year-old (who doesn’t have special needs), I was babysitting at that age. Where I am schools don’t even offer extracurriculars every day at that age.

  128. Iso*

    Just to add: hold firm on your boundary. I’m currently working from home with my 8 year old twins, who are off school for the day because they’re poorly. These are my own children, and I love them beyond measure, and we’re not currently facing any unusual behavioural difficulties… and I still could not do this for more than the odd day. I am neither a good enough parent, nor a good enough at my job, to do them both at the same time on the regular. Looking after children is a real job. The job you are doing is a real job. You cannot do both at the same time!

  129. Jaid*

    Maybe irrelevant, but I’m side-eyeing the receptionist who answered the mother’s question about single moms. They should have said that office procedures aren’t something to be discussed with outsiders and asked if Mom needed to leave a message. Do they regularly say too much about people’s business like that?

    LW, I wish you all the best.

  130. HonorBox*

    OP, this isn’t a situation that your boss needs to fix, per se. But I do think it is a situation in which a heads-up might be helpful. Why? Because your mom called and inquired about single parents having children in the office. So clearly she has no problem crossing all kinds of boundaries. It might be helpful to let your boss know, just in case your brother shows up some day. Especially because you might need to leave for a bit and deliver him elsewhere.

    The policy at your workplace seems to be that single parents can have their children at the workplace. Boss may be able to help you in that regard too, by clarifying that it is PARENTS, not siblings. And your boss may be able to clarify that it (I assume) is for extraordinary occurrences, not daily. My daughter could walk to my office every day after school, but that’s only happened a couple of times. My boss is OK with it every now and again, but if it was a daily thing, it would be a problem.

    Also, your boss may want to talk to the receptionist to let them know that workplace policies aren’t public information, and in this case, sharing that information put you in a really bad spot.

  132. She of Many Hats*

    Please Please Please have a plan in place for when your brother shows up at the office because Mom told him to go there despite your boundary-setting. Maybe set aside a budget to Uber him to her office if he shows up.

    If it’s bad enough, possibly consider CPS as a last result because of the potentially dangerous sexual harassment as the first step of getting him the help he needs. Because it won’t be long before he’s either expelled from school or a parent calls the cops, or a co-worker does if he’s in your office regularly.

  133. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

    Your brother is not your responsibility. Full stop. This is your mother’s problem to solve.

    I am flabbergasted by the number of similar stories I see online of people who feel completely entitled to others doing the work of raising their (usually dysfunctional, poorly behaved, or even dangerous) children for them. Disgusting.

  134. Bananapants Modiste*

    To put on a different hat (I already told OP to get out), how overwhelmed and exhausted must a parent be to do something like that?
    What made OP’s mother so cray cray she wants to dump her son on her daughter? Even at her job?

    This is not about the mother being a shiftless party animal.

    I imagine the mother being a widow with two children, all on her own, with little money or support.
    Young son pushing puberty (and possibly struggling with additional issues) starts to act out, grating on her nerves strained by grief and responsibility. At 13, he’s louder, wilder, possibly stronger than her, wearing the mother down day and night. So she pacifies him and doesn’t enforce anything. Tries to dump a boy needing help in after school activities to get a breather ,and gets him dumped back because he’s acting out there, too. That makes it even worse for the mother.
    She puts the burden on OP because she’s burned out and helpless.

    I am in no way excusing the mother or telling the OP to fix the situation (because she can’t).

    I am just suggesting there is more than one side to the situation, and that everybody involved – OP, brother, AND mother – have reasons why they are the way they are, and badly need help.

    At the end of the day, OP, you need to take care of yourself first. Draw your boundaries and get out of the mess, say no at home, say no at the job, move out. Don’t burn yourself out to help your mother.

    Once you are safely away from the mess, you research what outside help you can get your mother and brother. Talk to your church, youth counseling, CPS and whoever people may suggest here.
    Don’t try and save them yourself.

    You sound like a good person, but don’t set yourself on fire to warm others.

  135. beans*

    I noticed that all the issues with your brother that you mentioned were sexual in nature. I hate to ask you to add more to your plate, but you might want to try and get your brother in with a counselor or therapist. Acting out in a sexual manner is kind of normal at that age, but with it seeming to be so pervasive, plus the fact of the sexual harassment, I would want to check to make sure nothing nefarious is happening in your brother’s life to make him act out like that.

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