my employee is too accommodating

by Alison Green on January 6, 2025

A reader writes:

I am having a very backwards problem with one of my employees, Jill, being too accommodating and self-sacrificing.

We have regular hours that we work, but it’s not uncommon for hours to need to change when something comes up. Everyone is aware of this when they come onboard, and we do our best to rotate who has to stay late. Everyone seems pretty content with how things work as long as there is equal division of overtime. Jill, however, will often volunteer herself to work the longest hours to take the most un-enjoyable part of the work every single time. A lot of my conversations with the team will go something like this:

Me: We have a large new project that’s just been brought it us and the client has put in a rush order, so we’re really going to need to push over the next few days.

Jill: I’ll do it!

Me: That’s okay, you did it last time, plus you’re going to be on vacation the next couple of days. We’ll see if we can get someone else to handle it before we come to that.

Jill: No need, I’ll do it. I’ll cancel my vacation immediately!

And the next thing I know, Jill has put in a request to cancel her time off and has already told the others they can go on home and she’ll stay late. She does this even if I tell her to wait! In any given month, there are at least a few times where Jill volunteers herself to stay late, work through lunch, cancel scheduled time off, or even do someone else’s work for them so they can leave early. Jill doesn’t seem upset about all the extra work or cancelling time off, and her work is always well thought-out and excellent.

But I do not know how to tell her to please back off and let us distribute the extra responsibilities a bit more! Asking her to cancel a vacation would be an absolute last resort for me, not a first or even second choice.

I have had one talk with Jill where I explained it’s okay for her to allow others to do the extra work. Throughout our conversation, she kept insisting to me that she didn’t mind and that she was happy to help in any way needed. Our talk ended up not being much more than me saying “you don’t have to do it every time” and her saying “I don’t mind!” After that, her behavior did not really change.

I’d like to address this again because it simply isn’t fair to Jill, but I’m struggling to come up with a better way to phrase it. I suppose I could “pull rank” and ban her from working on certain things, but that seems too harsh for this situation. Any ideas on how to better handle this?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

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{ 118 comments }

{ 118 comments… read them below or add one }

    1. Red_Coat*

      That was exactly my thought. If the overtime pay is generous, and the vacation is a ‘day drink and clean out my closets’ vacation, I could definitely see going so far as to cancel (or move) that for some cash.

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    2. H3llifIknow*

      If so, it’s even more important that the LW let Jill know that the opportunity for OT needs to be shared more equally. My son is a firefighter, and they’re vastly underpaid and always looking for OT, as is everyone else at the station. Not fair for one person to hog it all. If it’s NOT paid OT, though, the LW still risks her other staff starting to resent Jill as the “teacher’s pet” who they may eventually start to see as an ass kisser who makes them look bad, etc… Needs nipped in the bud in either scenario.

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  2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    I remember this letter and thinking that as a coworker, not getting to choose special projects because Jill jumps in would frustrate me. Having a peer tell me to go home, she will finish my work, would frustrate me. Wondering why my boss is letting Jill do whatever she wants would frustrate me.
    I would not think “oh, Jill will get a better raise, get recognized for all she is doing.” I would think, “I can’t get cool or stretch projects because Jill will take them and even if I do, Jill will insinuate herself somehow. I appreciate help, not taking over. I won’t get the raise I deserve because I won’t have the work output to prove my worth. And I’ll be bored.”

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    1. umami*

      Yes!~ It also seems weird to bring it to the team to seek volunteers rather than having a more equitable distribution process. Now, if no one else truly wants the project or doesn’t have capacity for it, then it’s good to have a tried and true volunteer to rely on, but not from the get-go.

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      1. The Bigger the Hair…*

        Isn’t this bad management? How often do these emergencies come up? This seems to be poor time and project management. There should be a policy that rotates within the team so that one person isn’t burdened by emergency deadlines. AND give equal opportunity for the rest of the team to have access/recognition to big projects. This is a manager issue more than an employee issue…

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        1. Kay*

          I think it depends on the workplace and the team. It could easily become toxic, but it could also be a really chill workplace where you can ask for your preferred work and get feedback in real time. “Hey guys, I did the last two teapot paint jobs. Can I call dibs on the next teapot cleaning that comes up?” Or “I have a tight deadline next week, so I can’t take on any more work right now.” Like a weekly check in.

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      2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        That’s an interesting point. The LW could start presenting this type of thing differently. Rather than asking the group for volunteers, knowing that Jill is going to volunteer, she could ask if a specific person (or two people or whatever) has time and capacity for the task / project. If Jill tries to insert herself, tell her gently that you’re looking for non-Jill’s answer, since you’ve offered it to them. And just include Jill in the rota equally.

        It’s usually easier to change your own behaviour than to try to change someone else’s behaviour. Still, a change in how the LW does this would also reinforce the conversation with Jill.

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      3. Starbuck*

        Yes, manager needs to actually manage! Assign the tasks as you’re breaking the news. Not just bring up that a new task/project exists and see what people say about it.

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    2. Mockingjay*

      This is also what I came to say. While Jill’s overeagerness does need to be addressed (it’s a fast train to burnout), OP should simply assign these tasks among the entire team on rotation.

      I vaguely remember the original post. Did anyone discuss or speculate whether staffing is an issue? (Going a bit beyond what OP asked here.) OT is not an enticement to all employees. Sure, the money’s nice, but some people prefer free time or have commitments that interfere with the extra hours needed for OT (even though they’d like the money). And if OT is routine, to me that’s a sign that staffing is insufficient and that’s going to have other effects down the road.

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    3. Baunilha*

      I have a coworker who used to do exactly that and it did frustrate me so much. She would even do my work for me without asking me first, taking away tasks I actually wanted to do. (Either because it was a learning opportunity or because it was a good chance to showcase my skills.)

      Like the LW, I also tiptoed a bit before being honest and actually saying “I don’t you to do that for me”. Luckily, once I did, she understood and never did it again. But yeah, it was very frustrating for a while and made me resent her.

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      1. Hard core*

        Jill should do one of the following:
        1. Enter an industry like banking or consulting in which long hours are normal
        2. Find a job with a company like Tesla or X that rewards employees who are hard-core
        3. Work on her own startup in the side while the co-workers are getting their “equitable share”’of the work.

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    4. I rell vatch*

      I have a co-worker who does this and it’s so frustrating. She jumps in and overloads herself, while taking work away from other people and leaving us with not enough to do. Our manager is pleased with her “enthusiasm” so I feel helpless to do anything. I’ve started really resenting her over it.

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  3. Someone Else's Boss*

    Alison’s advice was perfect, of course, but I had just one other thought here. Would it sometimes make sense to assign the work yourself rather than letting your team “claim” it? I realize there are pros and cons to every method of assigning work, but when it’s distributed unevenly, sometimes it can help to get a little more involved.

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    1. M*

      Possibly, but when the “this unpleasant/irritating thing needs assigned to someone” task involves unexpected last-minute late nights, I do think it’s kind management to let people take “their turn” when it’s moderately convenient to them to do so, and so long as that’s working smoothly, to just keep track of who’s done what to ensure an even distribution of unpleasantness. It’s a lot easier to ask a mature team “who’s up for this one?” than to constantly know who has what after-hours commitments that week.

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      1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        It’s easier when there are no Jills. This is how we operate in my volunteer work, where there is no overtime pay or promotion prospects at stake.
        OP could ask Bill and Kate in private whether they would be up for a bit of overtime, and if either can’t, she can ask John and Jane, and only resort to asking Jack and Jill if nobody else can do it. It really doesn’t take that long.

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      2. SpaceySteph*

        I agree OP can allow self-selection where possible, but needs to stop announcing it to the whole team and direct it to people who are available for the time the work is needed (as reflected in other work priorities AND vacation schedule). They can still ask people to volunteer within that smaller pool of volunteers.

        OP also probably needs to be prepared that if Jill isn’t bailing them out, they may actually have to pick someone and I wonder if there isn’t some part of them that includes Jill in the requests because they know Jill will keep them from having to be the bad guy if nobody else steps up.

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        1. Grith*

          Exactly. Implement a system that can allow for multiple people to flag themselves as open to taking on the extra work, and the manager then delegates/splits the work between as many people as they want. Rather than just simply allowing the loudest/first volunteer to whisk it all away from the rest of the team.

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  4. Lady Danbury*

    An all too common example of where the boss thought they addressed a situation, but the employee (rightfully) heard “you don’t have to do this” when they needed to hear “you need to stop doing this.”

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    1. All het up about it*

      Right? I got irritated reading this. I wanted to respond to Jill “Well, Jill, I mind.”

      I think Just Tom’s response on here is an excellent summary of how Jill might be thinking she’s coming off as a great team player to her co-workers, but she’s actually irritating or frustrating them too.

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      1. Lady Danbury*

        Exactly. OP’s communication style is exactly how people end up on PIPs or even fired and have no idea what they did wrong. Jill is clearly in the wrong but OP hasn’t communicated that directly, so she just thinks she’s being helpful.

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    2. JSPA*

      Yep! This is a “please don’t” moment.

      “you do not need to do” is miles from “you need not to do,” despite practically being a reordering of identical words.

      They’re not the polite and impolite version of the same statement. Don’t use the first, when you mean the second.

      You probably wouldn’t tell your kid, “you don’t need to take a second slice of cake before the others get a first slice.” We all know how to say, “sorry, please don’t do that thing you’re excited to suggest.” So why talk around the issue?

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      1. StarTrek Nutcase*

        I found “directness” is lacking in many new and less experienced female managers. Many of us (F) were raised to be “polite” and ask not tell – subtly implying that directness isn’t polite. But managers owe it to employees to be direct to avoid confusion. Unlike the female managers (~5) I’ve had over the decades, the male managers (~7) didn’t seem to have a problem being direct (though they frequently have other problems). Over time, I really came to appreciate directness and not just in the workplace.

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    3. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I agree, that boss thinks the issue was addressed, and additionally, that the boss isn’t seeing the full issue. OP sees, “employee is too accommodating” is the issue. The outside audience sees something different. Employee is being a PITA to boss and coworkers. I won’t go so far as to say insubordinate, because OP never clearly stated, “stop doing that.”

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  5. WantonSeedStitch*

    Yeah, “no need” doesn’t mean the same thing as “knock it off.” You NEED to tell Jill to knock it off. This is robbing other people of opportunities and messing up workload distribution.

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  6. Heidi*

    In other cases where employee behavior needs to change, there’s an implied “or else,” meaning that they would be put on a PIP or even fired if the behavior doesn’t change. If Jill didn’t change, would the OP have to fire her? It feels kind of extreme.

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    1. Mother of Panthers*

      Jill’s constant undermining of the letter writer’s management is certainly insubordinate. After a clear “knock it off” conversation, it seems logical to move to a PIP if her behavior continues.

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      1. FashionablyEvil*

        Yeah, I tend to agree–definitely not in firing territory at the moment, but the refusal to hear a no is concerning.

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        1. Lady Danbury*

          Part of the problem is that she hasn’t been given a no yet. “You don’t have to do this” isn’t the same as “don’t do this”, especially when this is something that is seen as a good thing in many contexts (going above and beyond, being a team player, etc). If LW clearly tells Jill to knock it off and the behavior persists, then we’re in insubordination territory.

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          2. Tea Monk*

            Yea. If someone said ” You don’t have to write this email ” I’m going to believe its unnecessary not that I shouldn’t write the email. If someone says don’t write that email, I’ll stop doing it

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          3. londonedit*

            Yeah, it seems like at the moment Jill is hearing ‘Oh, Jill, that’s so kind of you but you really don’t need to put yourself out like that’, so her response is ‘It’s fine! I really don’t mind! Happy to help!’. Whereas the message the OP needs to make sure Jill is hearing is actually ‘Jill, you need to stop jumping in and taking every project. Work needs to be evenly and fairly distributed among the team. If I tell you to leave the project for someone else, you need to do that – I don’t want to hear that you’ve taken it on anyway, or cancelled holiday, or anything like that again. I’ll make sure you have your fair share of projects, but you have to give everyone else their fair share too’.

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    2. metadata minion*

      If she doesn’t change, it’s going to stop being a problem of Jill being overly accommodating and/or taking work away from other employees who might want it, and start being a problem of Jill going directly against her manager’s very reasonable instructions. I can understand chafing against an instruction of “do this because I’m in charge” when what Jill wants to do might otherwise be helpful, but the LW has clear reasons why her behavior is causing problems and if Jill can’t change her behavior, she at best is a bad fit for the job.

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    3. WorkerDrone*

      Fire her? Maybe not right away. But it is a serious issue if an employee is clearly told, “Do not do this” and they go ahead and do it anyways. Of course, Jill hasn’t been told this yet, but let’s pretend she has and the behavior continues.

      A PIP would definitely be appropriate if, after being clearly told that, Jill continues.

      If that didn’t work, the next step would be, as OP suggested, to pull rank and ban her from working on extra projects as needed to distribute the work evenly.

      And if both those don’t work, then firing is not only completely appropriate at that point but also probably necessary. An employee who refuses to follow direct instructions and undermines her manager in this way is not an employee you can trust in your workplace.

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    4. Sara without an H*

      Firing would be a long way down the road. Right now, the Letter Writer really, really needs to have that blunt conversation Alison describes in her response. It will be a shock for Jill to learn that she’s not coming across as the super-duper-helpful-person of her own self-image, but that’s got to be the first step in managing her.

      If she willfully continues the behavior, that will be the time to escalate. But first, blunt speech is called for.

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  7. umami*

    If this is paid overtime (which is the only way it makes sense that she is constantly pushing to be the one to work extra), then you absolutely need a better method for getting coverage for projects so that the rest of the team has a fair shot at it. It’s not really about being fair to Jill,l it’s about being fair to the rest of the team. The message should be that she ‘cannot’ volunteer for every overtime opportunity. Honestly, I would say the same whether it’s paid OT or not.

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    1. Person from the Resume*

      I actually get the vibe that Jill is bringing personal experience and history to work.

      This reads to me as she’s scared for her job or is simply overly helpful/accommodating/self-sacrificing because she had to be that way in a past job or childhood to get any praise/recognition. Is there a vibe of girls/women must accommodate and serve men in her childhood home? YOU must be the one to sacrifice so no one else has to.

      And if these are cool, interesting or prestige projects or earning OT pay, then it is unfair that she’s not allowing other colleagues the possibility.

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      1. Amy Purralta*

        Or she could be trying to avoid going home, due to unpleasantness in her personal life. I think before the boss decides her next steps she needs to ask Jill why she’s acting the way she is.

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        1. Arrietty*

          Even if Jill is avoiding home for an understandable reason, that doesn’t change things for LW. Jill needs to find alternative solutions to that problem.

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        2. Targaryen*

          Can we not? There is nothing in this letter to indicate this fanfic level of speculation, and it’s not at all relevant to how OP needs to handle this.

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        3. Turquoisecow*

          Uh, no. Jill is an adult and needs to figure out her own life, not have her boss step in and try to help her with a problem that there’s no evidence she actually has. If Jill has a terrible home life, that’s on Jill to figure out, not her boss.

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        4. EDIA*

          No, the boss does not need to intrude on Jill by prying into unpleasantness in her personal life, what are you thinking?

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        5. HonorBox*

          Nope. Just nope. Whatever the reason Jill is volunteering isn’t something for the boss to dive into. If Jill brings something up, that’s her decision to do so. But prying and trying to attribute her behavior to something else is a bad move.

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        6. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          Even if Jill’s motivation is to avoid going home to an unpleasant situation, that doesn’t justify taking away other people’s projects.

          There are other places than home and work, where Jill can go if she doesn’t want to go home.

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      2. BPL*

        I also get the vibe that Jill is overly helpful/accommodating but more of a “this is a personality” than a “this is a trauma reaction.”

        I am a cis-man, but I feel like I would also have a strong tendency to err on the “I am here to help” that would be similar to what Jill seems to be displaying (although the gendered component likely does not help things as well).

        For *me*, I do tend to wrap a lot of my self-worth in being the “helpful” guy and the overachiever, so I can see something similar with her. This, compounded by the fact that I am a single guy who lives alone almost 600 miles away from family while working in an office filled with students and coworkers with families, can lead me to do a lot of free OT and volunteer for duties to “take stuff off people’s plates.” They have people to go home to, or other responsibilities; I do not. Work is a major part of my identity, so I can feel much of where Jill might be coming from.

        Does that make her actions “correct” or not need of adjustment? No, but I can see where it may have come from.

        The OP needs to be a little clearer with her about how her “eagerness” may negatively impact others. That would probably be the avenue that is most likely to get through *my* own thick head, but it will be something that Jill needs to work on.

        (I am working on getting my own head on straight as well.)

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    2. KiwiBird*

      I agree. Jill needs to be told “you cannot take the extra work every time, and you need to respect how work is assigned by not taking over other people’s assignments. This is important to making sure the work is divided fairly and everyone has opportunities to grow, develop skills, and be a valuable team member.”

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    3. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      Agreed about what the messaging needs to be, but I don’t think it needs to be paid overtime for Jill to push for extra work. I’m also a serial volunteer and have needed to repeatedly remind myself to let other people take the extra work. I don’t get overtime pay, but a) I want to demonstrate being a “team player”, but I absolutely don’t want to socialize, and b) the job itself is soul-sucking, meaningless work that pays about 5x what I could get doing things that I think matter, but reframing it as acts of service towards my team helps me get through my day.

      If Jill is a valuable employee, after LW tells her very clearly to stop it, it’s probably worth having some discussion of why she’s been doing this.

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    4. JSPA*

      I have no sense that it’s overtime.

      People have all sorts of reasons for wanting to pitch in extra at work (or in volunteering, or in other group situations, or as a parent, or whatever).

      It could be to build camaraderie or get a good reference, it could be baggage from childhood or a past job, it could be that the home situation is grim so late hours are welcome, it could be having read too many questionable books on manifesting your path, or too much time spent listening to the grandparent who’s always praising “Gumption!” or it could be the work equivalent of, “Some people actually like shining the silver or raking the leaves.” We can’t know.

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      1. Anax*

        Yeah, I’m in that last boat. I *love* tedious work like, say, double-checking that all of these fifty spreadsheets are formatted properly and the cost total matches, or going through every page of a website to check for broken links.

        It’s peaceful, no one else wants to do it, and I work quickly, so I often have some downtime within my 9-5 to work on “grunt work”. (I’m not doing overtime, my partners would scold me thoroughly, lol.)

        In my personal case, I’m autistic and this is stimming – turning disorder into order just makes me feel happy and energized all day, and I can listen to a podcast if it’s mindless work.

        I’ve been careful to not poach the *fun* work or the stretch work which people need to grow their skills or show their competence. But… can confirm, some people just really like this stuff. Sometimes I have to drag myself away at the end of my shift.

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  8. Seashell*

    Maybe some kind of rotation schedule about who is asked first if they want to do extra work or extra hours would help? If the list for January is Chris, Mary, Bob, and Jill, then ask them in that order if they are available and willing for the extra work. It shouldn’t just be whoever calls dibs first.

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    1. I should really pick a name*

      Why change the way things are handled when the situation can be resolved by talking to one person?

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      1. Seashell*

        Because, in the absence of Jill always chiming in, someone else could turn into the new Jill? Because other people might be quietly resentful if the opportunities or tasks aren’t fairly distributed even after Jill changes her ways?

        It doesn’t really sound like things are being handled as is. From the conversation provided, there’s no indication that LW is saying what is needed, how many volunteers might be needed, or who they would prefer to do it. Instead of saying “we’re really going to need to push over the next few days”, s/he could say, “I need 3 volunteers to do 5 hours of overtime for the TPS reports this week.”

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        1. I should really pick a name*

          The issue here really seems to be that the LW is not very assertive.

          The LW is the one with the power in this situation if they’re willing to use it. Jill, and any subsequent employees who attempt the same behaviour, can be easily handled with clear instruction.

          “Thank you, but we’re giving this one to someone else”.

          “Even if you cancel your vacation I’m assigning this to someone else.”

          “I assigned this to X. Why did you tell them that you’ll handle it? That’s not acceptable”

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          1. sometimeswhy*

            A rotation for first-refusal doesn’t just fix the problem, it gives the team a transparent and equitable framework and futureproofs it against another manager falling into the same practice either for the same reason (not very assertive) or for different ones (favoritism, the opposite of favoritism, absentee).

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      2. Venus*

        Depends on whether the others are regularly interested in extra pay or a stretch project. If there is benefit to staying late then there should be a better system, because the distribution of a benefit should be done differently and won’t be improved by talking to one person.

        I think the OP needs to be more clear that their initial request is asking for volunteers, and no employee gets to decide and push away others.

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  9. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Echoing everyone else – OP you need to use your words. Tell Jill clearly she is not to jump in and take on the extra work. Tell her flat out that her volunteering to cancel a vacation is not an option.

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  10. A Lab Rabbit*

    And the next thing I know, Jill has put in a request to cancel her time off and has already told the others they can go on home and she’ll stay late.

    No. It is not Jill’s responsibilities to tell other employees that they can go home and that she’ll stay late. It’s above her pay grade to make decisions like that.

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    1. umami*

      I’m surprised that the boss is allowing this level of overreach! OP is allowing Jill to manage the team, but it doesn’t sound like that is her role at all.

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      1. duinath*

        Yeah, I would have expected a serious conversation about what Jill can and cannot decide in the workplace after this.

        I think OP is framing this as enthusiasm to help, but when your refuse to hear a no your enthusiasm has gone much too far and needs to be reined in.

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  12. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

    This can also be handled by saying something like “We’ve got a OT project in front of us. It looks like Jill and Sam did the last OT, so Sue and Bill are on deck for the project.” And then “Jill, I see that you’ve put in to cancel your vacation — there’s no reason to do that, as Sue and Bill are covering the project. Have fun on your well-earned time off.”

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  13. Curious Cat*

    When I read this, I project some of my own “nose to the grindstone” where I wonder if something deeper is going on – like Jill thinks this will give her the deep skills/knowledge that is a growth and development opportunity. Even if its the most unenjoyable part, is this work giving Jill deeper expertise to take herself further in her career? And if she sees it that way but OP does not, then maybe that’s another kind of alignment conversation to be had that this is not the kind of work that would lead to an expanded skillset//ability to expand role even if Jill perceives it that way.

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  14. B*

    Managing and balancing employee workloads is a core part of management. This issue is wholly solved by making it clear you, not Jill, decide what Jill is working on.

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  15. Spaypets*

    I am surprised no one suggested that maybe home isn’t a safe place for Jill and “having to work” gives her a hall pass, so to speak.

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    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      That was the first thing I wondered: why is Jill so eager to not be at home? Someone up thread mentioned overtime, so maybe she just likes collecting extra pay if that’s the case, but if not, I still have a lot of questions.

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    3. Honoria Lucasta*

      Same! I know that OP’s conversation with Jill needs to be very straightforward about the work objectives, but I wonder if it would be a helpful addition to ask in their conversation about why Jill is picking up all these extra tasks. If Jill is trying to meet some stretch financial goals by picking up paid overtime, or if she is trying to get a break from a demanding or depressing home life, would that inform anything about how OP manages her?

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      1. umami*

        I really feel like the less you know as a manager about someone’s personal circumstances, the better. You can’t prevent what people share with you, but I certainly wouldn’t advocate for actually asking someone why they are doing what they’re doing because … then what? Managing based on someone’s personal circumstances is not going to lead to more fairness, it’s likely to make things even less fair for those whose circumstances you aren’t privy to.

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        2. HonorBox*

          Or it opens up some infighting because Jack now decides that affording tuition to send his kid to private school trumps Jill’s goal of buying a boat.

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        3. YetAnotherAnalyst*

          This really depends on how much LW wants to keep Jill on their team, doesn’t it? Since Jill clearly doesn’t want to stop volunteering for the extra work, it’s probable that telling her she needs to stop is going to make her less happy at work. If Jill’s generally an employee worth keeping around, LW should probably be a little curious here.
          If it’s an overtime pay thing, or a responsibility thing, can LW clarify what the path to the next raise or promotion looks like? If it’s a need to be helpful or be recognized, can LW change how they give feedback? If it’s a burnout thing, can LW shuffle responsibilities around (which might be a win-win if Jill’s happy to take “worse” assignments as long as they’re different). If it’ s not wanting to go home, can LW adjust Jill’s working hours any, or is there an EAP to refer Jill to?
          Maybe it’s none of those things, and maybe LW isn’t in a position to do anything about whatever the underlying issue is, but it’s at least worth asking!

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      2. All het up about it*

        I don’t think the “Why” would inform anything really.

        Perhaps if Jill revealed that she really liked/needed overtime pay or if Jill thought this level of volunteerism made her a shoe-in for the next promotion or raise that could add to the professional reasons the Manager could share. (Other employees might also like/need overtime pay from time to time. Ignoring Managerial directives does not lead to promotions, etc.) But those facts can be stated without knowing that’s Jill’s reason.

        If Jill IS trying to escape from her life at home, her manager cannot help her with that. A referral to the EAP would be the extent they could do. And honestly, that might not be a bad idea period to see if Jill can help learn better life/work balance for whatever reason she’s choosing to volunteer for everything.

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      3. Turquoisecow*

        It shouldn’t.

        Since we’re on the fanfic train, let’s keep going. What if Jill is struggling to make ends meet and wants that overtime? What if her coworker Bob has a terrible home life and wants to escape an abusive spouse? What if Sue is desperate to get a promotion because previous abusive bosses taught her to always say yes? What if Jane has a sick mother in hospice? What if?

        Not the boss’s problem to manage any of that. Boss’s problem is to make sure the work gets done and gets done equitably so that Jill isn’t getting all the credit or overtime or work and doesn’t burn out quickly, and so that ALL the people on the team get a chance to shine and gain experience.

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    4. A Lab Rabbit*

      Because that’s not what LW wrote in about. The question is “how do I get this employee to stop hogging all the after hours work?” and not “why is my employee hogging all the after hours work?”

      The first question is something that AAM can answer; the second question is not.

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      1. Pescadero*

        ‘The question is “how do I get this employee to stop hogging all the after hours work?”’

        …and the answer is – actually manage.

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    5. Magpie*

      I’m not sure that would change the advice at all. Jill’s behavior is problematic regardless of the reasons behind it and it needs to change. It would be a massive overstep for her manager to try and delve into the personal reasons behind why she’s acting this way, especially since there are no obvious signs that’s the reason.

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    6. umami*

      I can believe that to be a possibility, but I also can’t factor such possibilities into management decisions. It’s a slippery slope to allow people’s personal circumstances (at least the ones you happen to know about) dictate what projects/overtime you assign them.

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    7. nnn*

      The commenting rules ask us not to speculate on random scenarios without explaining how it would change the advice.

      Reply ↓
      1. Despachito*

        I think that the reason why Jill does that matters quite a lot because it may indeed change the advice.

        Does she want more money? Is she hoping for a promotion? Does she have a violent husband and is afraid of going home? Has she suffered a personal loss and work helps her forget it? Is she just a people pleaser?

        In all these cases OP should make her stop but can offer her a slightly different solution. I also agree that OP never said “you should stop” but “you do not need to do this”, and it is only logical that Jill answers “but I don’t mind”.

        OP should also think about WHY is Jill’s behavior so bothering. Does she really steal other people’s opportunities? (The tasks in question may as well be boring and other people may be glad they got rid of them) .

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      2. Old Bag*

        Imma take a stab.

        I’ve had a couple managers who did ask things like “is there something you’re trying to accomplish by (engaging in aggravating behaviour)? Because if there is I’d like to brainstorm other ways to help make that happen in any way we can. You’re a valued employee and we want to support your educational, professional, and financial goals — as well as whatever you’re working on personally if we can. So what’s up?”

        I can think of a million reasons Jill could be doing this that aren’t even drama reasons but things management could get creative and help with… stuff like wanting X experience or avoiding commute at Y time or not wanting Coworker Q to have access to her notes because she makes a pig’s breakfast of it and Jill can’t make heads or tails when she gets back… and on and on.

        Even with drama reasons “my home is abusive and I’m saving to move out” maybe OOP can point her to employment resources (my own manager pointed me to a mechanism we have where we can take small loans and have the repayments deducted directly from our pay. I would never have known of this or thought to look for such a thing).

        So basically, for me it would change the advice because it’s not actually the work or Jill being a “pick me!” but a problem that needs a different kind of solution.

        Another example: one time I was about to quit my (extremely loved) job about six months in. I had a Level 11 Version of the coworker like the infamous “why does my coworker hate me?” (Remove spaces as needed) https:/ /www.askamanager.org/2023/02/why-does-my-coworker-hate-me.html) who was also responsible for training me. And she masqueraded as a Jill. My coworker was absolutely impeccable at her work and a super valued member of the team. To make an extremely long story short, it never occurred to me that I would be believed, or that she was technically doing anything particularly wrong. Due to a lot of personal baggage that everybody carries in some way or another, I presumed that she was correct in all of her assessments about me. So to me, the obvious solution was that I should just quit.

        And that’s exactly what would’ve happened — except she got impatient and decided that she was going to go to HR and have me put on a PIP for some really ridiculous petty BS reason. I sat down with myself and had a long hard think, and consulted some friends with more corporate experience than I, and in the end decided that actually… I was not in the wrong here. I decided that I wanted somebody to give me a clear set of rules and expectations to follow, and that I was trying my best and I might not be perfect — but I also knew nobody else could do any better.

        So when she went to HR, they started looking into things and trying to figure out where the problem was with my work. In the end? She had all of her supervisory role taken away from her. She was told she was not allowed to speak to me EVER again for anything that had anything to do with anything besides work. And for that? It was to be in email ONLY and she had to CC our office manager (who assumed the supervisory duties for my work) and our COO (!!!) on every single email to me. It is 10 months later and she is STILL required to do this.

        I, meanwhile was moved to a nicer, bugger, more tricked out (electric standing desk!) more conveniently and comfortably located cube, given a very small but appreciated pay raise, and had the C suite falling over themselves assuring me that I was a valued member of the team, they liked my work, and they were glad I was there. They apologized PROFUSELY for not keeping an eye on what she was doing and explained that it never occurred to them she would be behaving like that. I was absolutely baffled, because for the last several months there I’d been thinking I was a complete fuck up.

        I found out later they had gone through her emails to me and found what they determined was a severe bullying situation. Even even if I’m not a member of a protected class, what she was doing amounted to psychological harassment as far as they were concerned. I work in law and an employment law worker friend of mine was gobsmacked when I told her this story with allll the details — she said “of course they kissed your ass — you were gonna get PAID if you went to a lawyer about this!” (No I won’t do that now — they’ve actually gone WAY above amazing as far as employers go in many other areas and are worth far more to me as employers).

        But here’s the thing: I *was* engaging in some weird behaviors that needed correcting, because I was desperate to avoid her. And I really wish my managers had asked me why I was doing that, because I definitely would have told them. Instead it was just… “I need you to stop doing XYZ.” And I didn’t try to defend myself, because I presumed that it would be written off as a “personality conflict” since we were both women and in that young Gen X / elder millennial age range.

        So, yeah… I think depending on the situation and nuance, OOP could ask — and depending on those answers, possibly point her towards some things or make some adjustments that might nip the problem at the root.

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        1. Despachito*

          This is a great perspective, and definitely the reason why I think “I need you stop doing this” is a necessary but not sufficient course of action.

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    8. Cordelia*

      well, because the advice wouldn’t change. It doesn’t matter why she is behaving like this, she needs to stop it, and OP needs to tell her to do so.

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    9. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

      In my 20s I thought I was the perfect employee – I’d stay late, never take leave, pick up all the work because I was trying to prove I had worth. My mind was a mess due in part to some bad romantic life situations.

      But what would have made it worse would have been having that ‘oh poor thing, she needs to be treated with kid gloves’ response from my manager.

      Actually having someone tell me that I was out of line, while unpleasant, gave me the first solid rules I’d heard in a long time.

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    10. Cassandra*

      Yes! I acted like this when I had an abusive boyfriend at home. My first thought after reading this letter was “What’s Jill trying to avoid by not going home?’

      Reply ↓
      1. EDIA*

        It’s fine to have inquisitive thoughts in the privacy of your own head, but the LW should not actually investigate Jill’s personal life for the motive behind Jill’s at-work behavior.

        Reply ↓
  16. rebelwithmouseyhair*

    I would frame this as “don’t go thinking because you always volunteer for everything, that you’ll automatically deserve the upcoming promotion/pay rise/whatever juicy thing will soon come up.”
    Jill is going all out, maybe because she wants to be promoted or given a pay rise, whereas even if she’s the most productive worker she might not have the right skills for the promotion, and will be upset if she gets passed over.
    OP might also consider telling her that her behaviour is typical of someone who, a couple of years later will be seriously burnt out.

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    1. Pomodoro Sauce*

      Not to be cynical, but I find that the people who always volunteer for everything don’t get promoted because, subconsciously, their supervisors don’t want to cope with the extra workload that would come from losing their best volunteer — finding people to take on extra work takes effort, and tracking whether a team can take extra work takes effort. I see people getting promoted for handling tricky situations with professionalism, not for shouldering the most day-to-day work. (But then again, I have limited experience here, and it’s mostly with a fairly toxic team.)

      Reply ↓
  17. RCB*

    My 43-year-old cynical and wise-to-the-working-world self really wants to sit Jill down and tell her “care less!”. Your job is never going to care about you as much as you care about them, and you’re already getting great reviews on your work product so you don’t have to prove yourself even more. Give 100% but not more, it’s just not worth the tradeoff.

    Reply ↓
    1. adk*

      I am you. I have a Jill at my job. Luckily, she’s less than 3 months in to the job, so I’m hoping to squash it out of her before she gets completely overwhelmed and burned out. I’m also her sounding board, so I’m getting there.

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    2. Marshmallow*

      I’m 40, and I personally hate when people try to give me the “care less” advice. It’s probably the most unhelpful “career advice” I’ve ever gotten.

      I’m not saying that someone should pour every ounce of themselves into their work. I am fully aware that that is not healthy. But for me the idea/approach of more equally distributing what you care a lot about is more helpful. And maybe someone should be able to infer that “care less” about work could equal “care more about something else”… but for me that isn’t a 1:1 trade off. I care at work whether I want to or not. I have found the trick is to make sure I have other things that have similar weight of care in my life as work does too. If you have a family this might be easier, if you don’t then filling your life with friends and hobbies can be helpful too. I would recommend making sure at least one hobby is something you can do even if you can’t spend money, otherwise your hobbies also become weirdly dependent on your job which just makes it harder to “not care” about work (like playing a musical instrument you already own, or being creative with cooking – theoretically food is a sunk cost, or hiking, or whittling sticks you found on the ground… or whatever).

      But yeah, care less is not great advice. I’ve found “create a better and thoughtful balance” to be an easier way to look at it. And for this LW framing thing like making sure the Employee is actually using their time off as important and and expected part of work might be helpful too.

      Reply ↓
  18. Delta Delta*

    I don’t think there was ever an update to this letter. But it seems to me that LW could solve the problem by managing and by making assignments. Rather than asking for volunteers, LW could approach people directly and say that items X, Y, Z need to be done and she is assigning it to them to do. That takes the volunteer aspect out of it and it distributes the work. LW can also be sure to assign tasks to Jill so she’s not left out.

    Also, LW needs to be firm with Jill that she needs to stop what she’s doing.

    Reply ↓
    1. mlem*

      If I worked on a team that had a system in which people who were available to work late in a specific week could volunteer, with negotiation of who covered what with an eye to overall fairness … and that abruptly switched to “Surprise! I’m assigning you to work late this week without asking if you can because I don’t want to be firm with Jill,” I would be livid. And leaving.

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      1. HonorBox*

        Yeah, going from asking for volunteers to making assignments is a great way to turn people off and send them to find a new job. There’s nothing wrong with proceeding the way things have always been done but telling Jill she needs to wait before raising her hand to take a volunteer opportunity. It makes sense to tell her that 1:1, but it may take some coaching in the moment to give others the chance to jump in if she tries to volunteer.

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  19. Throwaway Account*

    It might also be helpful for the OP to ask Jill what is behind this behavior – “Can you tell me what is happening here?”

    That might give the OP some specific info that can help and I also think it helps the message land well when the employee has some voice in the process.

    Reply ↓
    1. A Lab Rabbit*

      Oof, I don’t think I would want to go in that direction. The why is not on the boss to figure out.

      For example, if Jill needs more money because she has 70 kids to feed, that’s not really something the boss can solve. And it wouldn’t be fair to say to the team “Jill has 70 kids to feed and needs the money, so we’re going to throw all the OT her way.”

      And if Jill thinks that this is the way to be a team player, or the way to get a raise, well, the LW has already had a talk with her once. This is a situation where LW has to be more clear and more direct.

      Reply ↓
      1. Turquoisecow*

        and what if another person on the team also has their own need for overtime that isn’t being met because Jill is grabbing it all? Boss has to worry about more than just Jill.

        Reply ↓
    2. HonorBox*

      If Jill opens the door to the ‘why’ then that can be part of the discussion, but the boss shouldn’t be asking for more. As @Turquoisecow points out, even if Jill has desire/need for more money, there may be others on the team who would also like more money. Boss cannot worry about whose needs and desires are greater. They need to just focus on getting the work done and balancing opportunities.

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  20. Heather*

    Is Jill trying to move up in the company? Is there room for her to do that?
    It seems like her willingness is showing great dedication (even to the team’s detriment) and it might be that you need to manage her into a bigger role which is also part of managing her.

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  21. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    I WAS Jill. Totally messed up but I became convinced that if I did everything and volunteered for all the work then everyone would adore me. Didn’t even take my annual leave one year. I jumped on any and all pieces of work because that would surely make everyone love me and would ensure I could never be fired. Surely I’d be promoted!

    As we can see from the letter that doesn’t work. What it does do is piss off everyone else and lead one into having no work/life boundaries.

    ‘Eyes on your own work’ became something I heard a lot. And my boss explained he’d rather someone work normal hours and produce a small amount of quality work than work ALL the hours and produce large amounts of crap.

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  22. HonorBox*

    As a manager, it is important to say things in a definitive way AND to ensure that the team has equitable opportunity to earn overtime pay, show their capabilities, not burn out, etc. And a manager, you need to have opportunity to evaluate everyone fairly and equitably too. Jill’s work may always be excellent, but how is Peter’s when he’s in the same spot? Jill is happy to finish up something for Lois and let Lois go home early, but are you able to effectively see how Lois sees a project from start to finish?

    “You don’t have to do it every time” should instead be “Jill, you cannot always volunteer because others need to do that too.” And “Jill, while it is kind of you to assist your coworkers, you need to stop that unless I’m asking you to do so. I need to be able to see how people are performing.” AND, “Jill, you’re doing excellent work. I appreciate the quality of your work. I need you to focus on that work that is assigned to you without volunteering for more.”

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  23. Another Kristin*

    Oh man, I used to work with a meaner version of Jill. She was widely disliked, not just for being a work hog and control freak but also for being really snide and judgmental. She was very competent at her actual work, much like Jill, probably because she had no work-life balance and worked at all hours, but never got promoted and couldn’t (or wouldn’t) understand that it was due to her poor collaboration and people management skills. Fortunately she moved to another department and she’s their problem now!

    I don’t know if Jill is an asshole like my former coworker, but her workaholism is not doing any favours for your team.

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  24. Chocolate Teapot*

    Reading this, I was reminded of the letter about the person who was trying to save her company money by not putting in claims for expense and (more seriously) reducing retirement contributions and opting out of health insurance.

    https://www.askamanager.org/2019/01/my-coworkers-wont-cut-expenses-pop-culture-references-in-interviews-and-more.html

    In both letters, there is a sense that trying to go above and beyond to your own disadvantage doesn’t work in the long term. I would certainly be interested in an update on Jill.

    Reply ↓
  25. Ggggghh*

    I manage a Jill and it’s the worst. She has complained to my boss because I don’t these things (and because I tell her not to either). It must be some deep seated insecurity, because I have no idea why else someone else would act like this.

    Reply ↓
  26. Sleeplesskj*

    Can I also point out that I’d I were one of the other employees, I would pissed at not being able to rack up some overtime hours once in awhile. Pretty sure most of us would appreciate the opportunity to pull in the extra cash.

    Reply ↓
  27. Ms. Murchison*

    Sounds like someone who had a traumatic job loss previously and is now driven to make themselves indispensable.

    Reply ↓
  28. Crencestre*

    Alison made the point that other employees, seeing Jill go to such lengths to stay late, cancel her own time off (!) and even do others’ work for them might conclude that the LW expects that THEY will do the same as Jill and start canceling THEIR vacations, staying late, etc.

    Another danger here, however, is that those other employees will start assuming that Jill is the company workhorse who can always be counted on to do her colleagues’ most boring, disagreeable tasks for them…so why should THEY do their own work when Jill will do it for them? That’s going to produce the kind of mentality that no manager wants to see!

    Reply ↓
  29. Hermione Danger*

    I had a coworker like this. She was so talented, so smart, and so completely wrapped up in the belief that her value came from working herself to death. I tried to help her understand that her alive and healthy was worth more to the organization than her sick and exhausted, but as a colleague, I couldn’t do anything, really. Unfortunately, our boss also had tightly wrapped up her own identity in work, and pushed the entire team to be more like our Jill. This is why I am not working there any more. I needed my life to be more than just work.

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  30. Raida*

    If it’s paid Overtime, then this becomes a case of “as the Manager, I am ensuring staff get the opportunities to access the Overtime.”

    If it’s not, then this becomes a case of “as the Manager, I discuss and plan staffing. You do not. You do not tell me you ‘don’t mind’ when you are disagreeing with me using the standard, fully functional, fair system we have in place.”

    And then more clearly regardless of OT or not: If I *need* you I will *tell* you. Otherwise, and please take this in the nicest possible way, you need to back off. There’s no prizes for volunteering. There’s no promotion or payrise coming. Everyone should *not* get used to not having to do the less desirable tasks. I will *not* accept anyone getting burnt out when I could intervene. If you cancel a holiday to throw yourself on the grenade that just tells me you need to access the EAP, not that you are a team player and happy to help.
    Next time I am discussing with the team upcoming work I need you to *not* interrupt me, *not* volunteer, *not* argue when told someone else is doing the work. I need to know you can follow those instructions, and I need you to truly believe that the team is capable of handling this.

    Reply ↓
  31. Hosta*

    One of my go to phrases in coaching and mentoring is “saving the day doesn’t get you promoted.” That isn’t always true, but in my industry a list of times that someone stepped in at the last minute to make sure a project didn’t fail is going to raise a lot of questions when it comes time to decide who gets promoted. In general that phrase is a great way to spark a conversation about being a good team player, supporting your co-workers without doing their work for them, and planning ahead so that there’s no need for heros to step in and save the day at the last minute. Its also a great way to talk about the type of culture we want to have on the team overall and how I don’t want to create a culture where heroics are expected by our customers and stakeholders.

    I really like that Allison called out that this employee is clearly getting some positive feedback from jumping in all the time and recommended finding other ways to help them get the the positive feedback they deserve.

    Reply ↓
  32. Not That Kind of Doctor*

    Finally remembered the phrase one of my former teams used to use for this behavior: “No hoarding the pain!”

    Reply ↓
    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I like this. It seems we often run into someone who wants to (for whatever reason) wear the hair shirt. But this is about teamwork, not a misplaced messiah complex.

      Reply ↓
  33. Nanani*

    Could it be that she just actually likes the work everyone else finds undesirable? If so, it could help to frame it as “let others have some”. Possibly in addition to OT pay or whatever else she’s getting out of it.
    But, if you appeal to the gumption instict as a “let other people have a turn” thing, then it may sink in that she’s not actually helping.

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  34. EJR*

    I would want to know whether Jill thinks this behavior is leading to a promotion and/or raise. If that is NOT the case, the manager needs to make that clear to her. I suspect she may be bending over backwards so that her extra work is eventually rewarded – instead, the opposite seems to be happening.

    Reply ↓

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