my friend has terrible judgment, and I’ve encouraged it

by Alison Green on January 15, 2025

A reader writes:

A few years ago, I got a promotion in a different country. The organization I had previously worked at went through a re-structure and my position was eliminated. My good friend Suzie was promoted into a position that was very similar to my former position, but higher on the org chart and with more responsibility. We stayed in touch, mostly as friends, but with cheerleading and mentoring from the sidelines too.

This role was a big jump in responsibility for Suzie; she essentially leapfrogged quite a few positions. Complicating matters is the fact that the organization is an incredibly toxic work environment. Decades of very poor decisions and bullying behavior from senior management means there is a lot of distrust and a real us vs. them culture. It is really not possible for someone in Suzie’s position to do much about the culture; without meaningful change from the board and higher-ups, things will not change. For these reasons, I knew that Suzie would have challenges, but she had worked for the org for a long time, knew what she was in for, and has always been confident in her abilities as a manager.

Over the years, Suzie will sometimes call to vent, and I’ve always supported her. When she brought in a new policy that was not well received, I empathized; that group of employees never reacts to change well. You do the best you can to make everyone feel their complaints are heard, and then you tell them that the decision is made and they need to move on.

When she needed to take some time off and “have a break” and people were grumbling about her taking PTO, I told her she deserved her PTO and should model a good work-life balance for her team.

When she started to feel like everyone hated her and was always criticizing her, I told her not to worry; she’s the face of a problem culture, and she needs to just do her best to be fair and a good leader, and try not to take it personally when people who are traumatized and miserable can’t see her efforts.

I thought my advice was solid, based on my knowledge of Suzie and the company. But I’ve just moved back to the city, and realized I’m quite off-base. I’ve heard from many former colleagues, and seen evidence myself, that Suzie is, well, a bit of a mess. She has made some appalling decisions and displayed really questionable judgement.

That policy she made? She didn’t get any feedback before she created it or rolled it out, and it’s caused huge problems and slowed down processes across the org. When people try to raise it with her, they’re told “the decision has been made and they just need to move on.”

That PTO she took? It was in the middle of a huge and important project. Pipelines got stuck because she wasn’t there to approve and give feedback, and hadn’t set up a contingency approval structure. Then to add insult to injury, she posted photos all over social media of herself at what was basically a sex festival. (No judgment of what she does in her spare time, but it’s not really a restful weekend, and posting it was very tone-deaf. It’s also really not aligned with the values of the org.) People are demonstrably more unhappy now than they were when I was there, and they feel their complaints are never heard or taken seriously. Many people have left, so those who are still there are burnt out and feeling incredibly unsupported.

I realize I’ve contributed to the problem indirectly, because I’ve been Suzie’s champion and encouraged her decisions. My question is two-fold. First, what can I do from my position of unofficial mentor to get Suzie to be more aware of her actions, especially when she’s used to hearing nothing but encouragement from me? And secondly, how can I avoid this in the future? I realize now that whenever I give advice to people, it’s always based on their perspective of the issue, and I don’t have the nuance to give informed advice or opinions.

To some extent this is always an issue with advice-giving; you’re only hearing one side of the story and it may be biased or missing important details. You can try to dig by asking questions like, “What do you think Person X’s perspective is, and why do you think they think that?” But some people will always be unreliable narrators and you won’t always be able to spot them. (Sometimes that’s intentional on their side; they want sympathy and support and so shape the way they tell the story to get that. Other times, people just don’t realize what details would be important to mention; we see that all the time in letters here.) When you give advice, you can caveat it with “There may be internal politics in your company that would change this” or “Based just on what you’re saying and without knowing the perspectives of other people involved” … but it’s never going to be perfect, because people are imperfect narrators.

However! I do think it’s worth asking whether you leaned into supporting Suzie unconditionally without questioning her version of things at all. It’s really easy to do that when you know someone’s employer sucks; when management is incompetent, it makes it easy to assume they’re always wrong and the person you like is always right. Plus, you wanted to be supportive of a friend. But since you’re reassessing it now, you could look at whether you overlooked facts that should have jumped out more or if you dismissed things that didn’t sound quite right. If you realize that you did, that’s useful info for next time (with anyone, not just with Suzie).

There’s also a question of whether you were trying to be more mentor than friend. A mentor does have a responsibility to not only cheerlead, but also to point out blind spots and nudge when someone’s perspective might benefit from a shift. Personally, I believe good friends should do that too … but with a casual friend, I don’t think you’re as obligated to do what can be fairly heavy lifting.

Still, though, you don’t want to feel like you’ve encouraged bad decisions, which it sounds like is ultimately what happened here. So the takeaway might be to remind yourself that you never have the full scope of a story you’re hearing secondhand, that there might be other perspectives in play, and that most people can benefit from advice that encourages them to consider how someone else might tell the story.

As for how to approach Suzie on all this now … one option is to start asking things like, “How do you think Person X would tell their side of it?” and “If you wanted to make your staff feel more heard, what would help?” and “What input are you getting internally on this?” And you can start saying things like, “I can’t say for sure that this is what’s going on, but it sounds to me like…” and “Hmmm, the other way to look at this is…” or “I was once struggling with this and it turned out I’d overlooked X.” Who knows, maybe she’ll find that helpful! But whether she does or doesn’t, I think you’ll feel like you’re engaging more responsibly with a situation that you now realize you don’t know as well as you thought!

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{ 91 comments }

{ 91 comments… read them below or add one }

  2. Sloanicota*

    Wait … OP am I understanding that you were let go from a role, and then Suzy got a similar-but-promoted version of your old role? I think that was already a sign to step back a bit, not be on the sidelines giving advice. Not a lot of people have zero hard feelings about being laid off, and it sounds like this kept you entangled into your old messy org, and that contributed to bias in your advice and perspective.

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    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      My understanding is that OP was no longer in that role, and hadn’t been for a while. It’s just the position they used to hold (before leaving and going to whatever organization they were promoted at in a different country), was eliminated at OP’s former company.

      I don’t think OP was laid off at all.

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    2. Unwatered Office Plant*

      I took it to mean that she had left the messy company for a new job, then got a promotion at the new job that moved her to a different country. The messy company then restructured, eliminating her former position and creating the new one that Suzy took.

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      1. Sloanicota*

        Ah, thank you both, that explanation makes more sense and fits better with OP wanting to remain engaged. I also work with messy nonprofits and for me I’d still recommend a clean break when you leave, but I understand how it happens.

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    1. Mesquito*

      right? it’s the “basically” qualifier in “basically a sex festival” that’s got my interest. Seems like most events either are a sex festival or they’re not – this middle ground is intriguing

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      3. Annie Edison*

        I was thinking Burning Man or something similar? It’s not technically a sex festival but those sorts of things do take place there

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          1. L.H. Puttgrass*

            Is there a “Abstinence Yay!” festival?

            …oh, who am I kidding. There would absolutely be sex at an “Abstinence Yay!” festival.

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            1. Falling Diphthong*

              That is the first place I would look for the sex, to be honest.

              “The Society of People Who Own Sex Toy Shops” I would expect to be a lot more “When we say this workshop is on how to properly file taxes when selling across state lines, that is quite literal. There is a power point, tables of rates for different states, and the really exciting part is when it’s not a state but a territory.”

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      4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yeah, that’s a puzzler.

        A 30-year-old going to spring break to hook up with college students?
        Burning Man?
        An adults-only anything-goes resort?
        A Stanley Kubrick convention with Eyes Wide Shut cosplay?

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      5. Jellyfish Catcher*

        We need details, in order to judge whether it was a “basic” sorta sex festival or a
        “let the good times roll” sex festival.

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      6. Observer*

        Seems like most events either are a sex festival or they’re not – this middle ground is intriguing

        Think of something like Burning Man. It is *definitely* not billed that way, and it’s true that a LOT of other stuff goes on there. But I could easily see someone describing it that way.

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      7. wanda*

        Probably something like the Folsom Street Fair. You’re not supposed to have sex right there in the streets, but it’s all about dressing up and sex.

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            1. Falling Diphthong*

              Like on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, when Valencia started offering a yoga class that was just an hour of corpse pose because she was burnt out, and there turned out to be a real demand for that.

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          2. FricketyFrack*

            Ok but if someone wants to start a restival, I will absolutely attend. Real bathrooms, comfy beds that aren’t on the ground (but could still be in a tent, that part is ok), shows that start at like, 9am, have a nap break at noon, then go again from 2-6 or so, then everyone goes off to have dinner and read or meditate or whatever, then sleep? Ideal, honestly. Where are the festivals for the middle aged who are too tired to watch a show until 11 or 12 and then drive home and go to work in the morning??

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    3. AAM Enjoyer*

      My queer self initially thought of the Castro Street Fair in San Francisco, but that’s not until October. Maybe a copycat festival?

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      1. Tio*

        Well, it sounds like the PTO was taken in the past, since she already posted pictures and everything according to LW, so nothing’s really off the table

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    4. soontoberetired*

      there are such thing as fetish conventions. Why do I know? Because a former member of my division attended a particular one and then told her teammates about it with pictures. They were disturbed. they wouldn’t go to HR though because that person was friends with the head of the division. Eventually the fetish person was let go, as was her friend the boss so it became a non issue. I heard about the convention when I said I didn’t understand why people had trouble with the convention goer – I only worked with her occasionally.

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      1. Ms. Norbury*

        Yeah, my mind went immediately to some kind of fetish convention or adult industry event that’s open to the public.

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          1. Selina Luna*

            Really? I went to the Arizona Renaissance Festival in Apache Junction, AZ, and it definitely had the vibe of “we’re all sexy behind the scenes.”

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          2. Language Lover*

            I read a bit about the TX ren faire when the HBO documentary came out and discovered there is a huge after-hours sex culture there in the camping ground.

            Groups section off areas for different types of kink-focused sex parties.

            You can still go as a family and avoid the X-rated extra curricular activities but people make trecks specifically to partake in them.

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      2. Meep*

        We went last year and there were definitely some cosplayers who were not there in the spirit of the old Ren Faire (which can be raunchy, but is not the entire point), so I could see it being another lapse of judgement. /shrug

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        1. Tio*

          Oh I saw loads of those! Dragonball, sailor moon, devil may cry, avatar… I was surprised. But I wouldn’t classify that as “basically a sex festival” in any way lol

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  5. ferrina*

    There’s a good chance that Suzie would have done all the same things with or without OP’s support. OP helped Suzie feel justified and that’s not great, but if OP had said “That sounds fishy, I don’t believe you”, Suzie would have probably found someone else to emotionally reassure her.

    I sympathize with OP though- it’s jarring when you realize that you were that wrong about someone’s character.

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    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, all while reading, I was wondering how much influence OP’s advice/positive words really had on Suzie. I mean, they probably encouraged her but it also sounds like she would’ve gone forward with her ideas and stances anyway.

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      1. MsM*

        Yeah, at worst, OP gave her a script for shutting down objections to the bad process that probably isn’t all that far off what she could have come up on her own.

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      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, I think this is more giving oneself a few lashings with a wet noodle to in future give advice that’s more “Well, have you really thought of everything?” Based on realizing that you were not being given important context.

        OP, Suzie might have sought you out precisely because you were distant and so only hearing the details she wanted you to have.

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    2. PlainJane*

      That’s my take, too. I think I’d feel bad, like OP does, but I got the impression this had become more a bestie situation than a mentor situation, and those rules are kind of different. (That said, I think some besties might benefit from learning to approach the situation gently. “Oh, that’s an interesting idea. How has it been working? Oh… there are some problems? That’s too bad. Anything fixable?”)

      An actual mentor should be there on the ground though, and be able to say, “Suzie, I know where you were trying to go with this, but here’s how we could have approached it differently. And the experiment you tried was bold, but it didn’t work, so it’s time to scrap it.”

      As to the PTO? Festivals are held when they are held, and if she wanted to go to it, using the PTO was fine, even during a project. Posting pics on her social was… well, depending on the pics, probably fine. What she needed to do was establish the pipelines and who would be covering what while she was gone. That’s a problem even if it’s not a Big and Important project ™. If you get sick and no one knows how to, I don’t know, call the copy machine repair guys–or no one knows who’s authorized to do it–that can be a fairly nasty problem for a day or two. Lines of authority folks. Delegation. It’s a thing.

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    3. H.Regalis*

      Same. It’s definitely not fun to find out your friend is actually being a huge asshole, but Suzie is responsible for her own behavior and likely would have done the same things regardless of the LW’s advice.

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    2. Heidi*

      I would also prepare for Suzie to be upset. She already feels like everyone is against her, and to have someone she relies on to be on her side do a 180 and tell her she’s been going at this all wrong is going to sting.

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  7. Ok corral*

    “Based just on what you’re saying and without knowing the perspectives of other people involved”

    Would be nice if AAM letters got this kind of caveat now and again instead of “LWs must be believed at all costs”

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    1. Varthema*

      Come on, Alison adds this caveat to her advice ALL the time… the reason it’s the rule for the comments is because otherwise it’d become a fanfic fest, which happens anyway.

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    2. Tio*

      The main reason for the rule I think is that even with it people here will still spin off into one-in-a-million-odds cases that the letters give no indication of being the situation

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      1. Tea Monk*

        Yea like ” Ok maybe Fergie bit you but I knew a lady with vampirism which is a rare disability “. or something

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    6. Looper*

      I think the function of this, if not most, advice columns is to provide general advice for the situation presented by the advice seeker in a way that a reader may also find helpful in similar situations. I don’t feel the aim is to suss out which advice seekers are liars, which are actually worthy of sympathy, etc. despite how the comment section often devolves.

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  8. AAM Enjoyer*

    My queer self initially thought of the Castro Street Fair in San Francisco, but that’s not until October. Maybe a copycat festival?

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    1. AAM Enjoyer*

      Apologies, this was supposed to be in response to the person asking what “basically a sex festival” is supposed to be.

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    3. Carly*

      The PTO was in the past so it seems possible!! Is it bad that if if that’s what it is I’m inclined to be immediately more sympathetic to Suzie lol

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  9. Varthema*

    In fairness, it sounds like the advice given was all valid –

    “You do the best you can to make everyone feel their complaints are heard, and then you tell them that the decision is made and they need to move on.”

    “I told her she deserved her PTO and should model a good work-life balance for her team.”

    All of this is true and the fact that it wasn’t implemented properly (or at *all*, in the case of the first one) is not LW’s fault. But it does seem to be an indication that giving the advice is not really worth her time since it’s not landing.

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    1. Tio*

      I think it’s less that the advice wasn’t valid and more that if OP had known the full context and circumstances they would have offered different advice – as I would have.

      I wonder if OP thinks Suzie would react poorly if she said “Hey I heard some context about this advice I gave you and with that added info I think I would revise my advice and suggest you-” etc. Some people can hear that and some can’t.

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      1. Falling Diphthong*

        The lack of context given by Suzie to OP makes me think this was less a case of a mentee seeking a mentor’s wisdom, and more “Who is far removed from the awkward details and will tell me to trust my judgment and go for it?”

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    2. Flouise Belcher*

      I think this is where I fall. The LW gave good advice based on the information she had. It’s I think she can cut herself some slack and take it as a sign that Suzie may not be a reliable narrator and take Alison’s advise on things to consider when giving advice (to anyone) in the future.

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      1. Lydia*

        Exactly this. ALL of us make the best decisions we can with the information we have. And if LW trusted Suzie, then this isn’t a case of giving bad advice so much as it’s a case of Suzie not being as trustworthy as the LW thought.

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  10. Peanut Hamper*

    The thing about asking other people for advice is that you should never just act on it without reflection. You know a lot more about your situation than someone on the outside looking in, and so you need to think about whether the advice you are given is actually appropriate to your particular issue.

    It sounds like Suzie was looking for empathy, LW gave it, and Suzie took it as advice and said to herself “Yeah, okay, that’s what I’ll do then” without actually thinking about whether or not it was appropriate or correct. It also sounds like Suzie didn’t offer a lot of context about what she was doing. I would put most of this if not all of it on Suzie, not LW.

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    1. 2e asteroid*

      The best bit of meta-advice I’ve ever heard is, “whenever someone gives you advice, carefully consider both following that advice and doing the exact opposite.”

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      1. Falling Diphthong*

        My favorite AITA update was “Well. The people saying NTA were so terrible that I figured I had better listen to the YTA people instead.”

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    2. Looper*

      I also got the read by the description at the beginning of the letter that LW and Suzie are friends first and foremost and that this is in no way a formal mentor relationship. To me, the best thing about not working with friends is that you can be your full “work persona” when at work and your friends can know the non-work you. Maybe that persona sucks! But LW’s advice was valid for a friend, and it would be just as valid if LW quietly decided to scale back on work advising, not mention what she’d heard, and keep the friendship non-work focused.

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  11. Discombobulated and Tired*

    I feel like OP is worried that they somehow unconsciously were sabotaging their friend’s career, and I’d suggest that friend did that all by herself. But also, if it were me I’d switch from advice to “Yes, that does sound very frustrating/exciting/an interesting choice. Let me know how it works out.” From personal experience: I moved on and up from a team that a friend and I started working on while she is still there 20 years later, so at first I tried giving her advice and tried to help her see how she was making bad choices and blaming her boss/the system, but once I saw she’s determined to continue sabotaging herself, I chose to step back and it saved my sanity and our friendship. Again, that’s just me. If OP’s friend is seeking advice, Alison’s probing questions will certainly help them provide good advice.

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    1. Falling Diphthong*

      Ted Chiang had a short story (Anxiety is the Dizziness of Freedom) about divergent timelines. A minor plot was about a woman being hit up, again, for money by an old school friend based on guilt for ruining the friend’s life back when they were 15. Exactly what went down varied in each version–one was caught, one got away, both caught, both got away, etc. In every version, the friend’s life then went off the rails to a series of bad decisions, and in every version, the friend blamed this on the woman who should have done something different then, if she had then friend’s life would have been different.

      OP, I don’t think she was actually making her decisions based on your advice.

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    2. Looper*

      I second this fully. They are friends, not coworkers. LW can release herself from caring about Suzie’s work life and just order another round of margs and get the details on that sex fest.

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  12. sample10*

    Sometimes people (intentionally or not) share parts of stories because they want reassurance and not advice.

    I’d take some blame off yourself. It sounds like your friend was not giving you the full picture here .

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    1. Kay Tee*

      Agreed, especially if Suzie is calling to “vent” as LW says. She’s framing the whole conversation and story in a way that will get her the validation she’s seeking. Moving forward, you should consider whether you can or should provide it! But that’s a difficult and distinct moral question from “I gave bad advice, how do I take it back”?

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  13. Lisa*

    LW, I think you need to back off from being an advice-giver for Suzie. Just be friends and don’t bring work into it.

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    1. Uhura*

      I agree, sounds like LW thinks she was Suzie’s mentor, but I doubt Suzie thinks that. Sounds more like Suzie was venting to LW as a friend, not looking to LW for career guidance.

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  15. Numbat*

    LW, perhaps you can add to the list of your friend’s bad decisions: “only listening to the advice and perspective of one friend who always seems to be on my side”. Don’t take on too much responsibility for her choices.

    Reply ↓

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