my new boss coughs all over me, my coworker sucks at managing his team, and more

by Alison Green on January 31, 2025

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My new boss coughs all over me

I’ve just begun a new position and as a result, have been working closely with my new boss as she trains me. Things are mostly going well — except she is constantly coughing on me! Directly on me! As in, I feel her breath on my bare arm as she coughs into my skin while leaning over me to see my computer screen. When she does bother to cover her mouth, she coughs into her hand … which she then promptly uses to grab my mouse. She also left a used(!) tissue on my desk.

I’m coming down with a cold and it’s not hard to put two and two together. She’s an older woman and a senior vice president, I’m a younger and far junior, brand new employee. Do I have any standing to polite ask her to stop doing this? If not, what else can I do other than aggressively sanitize everything after?

That’s incredibly rude! In an ideal world you’d be able to simply say, “I don’t want to get sick — would you mind moving away when you need to cough?” And you might indeed be able to say that; it’s a very reasonable request!

But if you’re nervous about it, another approach is to make it more about what you’re going to do than what she’s doing: “Let me move away while you input that since you’re coughing.” You can also keep disinfecting wipes nearby and wipe down the mouse after she’s used it — and if she’ll see you do that, you can say, “Since I started doing this, it’s cut down on how often I get anything going around.” There’s also the option of wearing a mask when she’s training you and saying, “I’m close to someone who gets sick easily and since you’ve got a cough, I’m going to be extra careful.”

I hope you can use the first option of just directly asking her to stop. But the reality is that people often feel awkward about this kind of thing with a boss, especially when they’re new. So the other options are there if you need them.

Related:
my disgusting boss touches and chews on everything on my desk

2. Should I tell our boss that my coworker sucks at managing his team?

I work in tech, and my team is split by areas of ownership. My manager, Dave, oversees me and three others, and we manage one system. Dave also manages Jeb, who leads five other people responsible for a separate system that works closely with ours. Jeb is my peer but he is a manager, while I am not. Despite this, we’re all part of the same team.

I’ve been at the company for seven years, three years longer than Jeb, and had worked with him even before we joined this team. Recently, I’ve heard from Jeb’s direct reports that he’s been difficult to work for. They’ve mentioned personal insults, constant micromanagement, blame shifting, and threats of undocumented performance improvement plans used to intimidate them. This is especially concerning since all of Jeb’s reports are new hires or early in their careers. From what I’ve seen, they are smart, capable, and have the potential to excel if given proper support. Notably, Jeb does not act this way in larger groups or when Dave is present.

Jeb and I, however, have a good relationship. While he can be condescending at times, I’ve brushed it off to maintain professionalism. I believe he respects me due to my tenure and values my input when I push back. Really, his behavior doesn’t impact me because I feel secure and confident in my role and position in the company.

That said, I find his treatment of his reports unacceptable. His team seems hesitant to escalate their concerns, fearing retaliation. One teammate did raise the issue with a senior leader he felt comfortable with, but it seems nothing has changed in Jeb’s approach. I feel awful for those reporting to him and want to help, but I’m unsure how. Dave is relatively new and likely only knows what Jeb has shared about his team, which may be biased. However, Dave seems people-focused, and I doubt he’d tolerate this behavior if he knew the full extent.

I’ve encouraged Jeb’s reports to set up skip-level one-on-ones with Dave to build direct relationships, but I worry that won’t be enough. I’m in a unique position as someone Jeb cannot retaliate against and who has a direct line to leadership. I want to support my teammates without worsening their already challenging dynamic. Should I escalate this to Dave or stay out of it unless asked? What’s the best way to help without causing more harm?

Since it sounds like you trust Dave to handle it well, share what you’ve seen with him. You can frame it as, “I want to pass on something I’m hearing to you in confidence, since I’m not positioned to do anything with it myself.” Do it the same way you’d pass along a less charged work-related concern that Dave would want to be aware of — like “I’m hearing rumors Key Vendor A may be shutting down next year” or “Client B mentioned they’d rather we focus on X, not Y, when we present to them.” You  have relevant information that you have reason to believe Dave would want to be aware of, so go ahead and share it and then leave it to him to decide where to go (if anywhere) from there. As long as your tone is measured and “here’s a potential work issue” rather than “here’s the hot goss on Jeb, who I take delight in badmouthing,” most decent managers will appreciate a discreet heads-up.

3. How can I tell a friend who’s in a years-long job search that I got a job after a month?

I know that nothing is guaranteed, but about a month after starting a job hunt I appear to be very close to securing a job that will meet the needs of me and my family. I’m excited since it will solve a lot of problems for us, and it would make for a very short and successful job hunt. I’m excited, but I’m also wondering how to be kind around a dear friend of mine in the middle of a years-long, painful, difficult job search that has contained many false starts, dead-ends, and disappointments. Do you have any tips for how to be supportive and helpful around celebrating my job hunt ending quickly while also respecting the difficult and frustrating position they’re in?

Don’t celebrate it around your friend at all; she doesn’t sound like the right audience for your excitement right now. Let her know about the job change once it’s finalized since it would be weird not to, but keep it pretty matter-of-fact — you’re sharing information, not expecting her to celebrate with you.

Alternately, if you’re very close, in some friendships the right move would be to put it all out on the table — “I feel awkward about this and a little guilty since I know how long you’ve been searching, and I don’t want to be celebrating an offer for me when I know you’re having such a frustrating time.” She might reassure you that she’s happy for you and doesn’t want you to hide your excitement for her sake, or she might appreciate you recognizing that.

4. My boss said I couldn’t leave for lunch on a day we had an office party

I recently started a new role and, within two weeks, the deputy director of our department decided we would have a small office party for an employee approaching his last day. The party was about an hour with pizza, drinks, and desserts (provided by staff and company funds). I had an understanding with her that I would always be out-of-office for our company-allotted hour lunches to take care of my dogs’ needs. However, on the day of the party, she informed me that employees couldn’t take a lunch on days we had “parties” and therefore I couldn’t go home. I’ve never held an office job prior to this, so is this normal? Granted, it was over lunchtime, with lunch foods, but it was heavily implied it would be rude to not show up and congratulate this employee on their new role.

No, it’s not normal — and if you’re non-exempt and in a state that requires employees to be given a lunch break, it’s likely not legal either (although it will depend on the exact wording of your state’s law). It would be different if the party was optional and you could choose to spend your lunch hour there or not, but if you’re being told you must attend the party and you can’t have your lunch break before/after it, a lot of states would prohibit that.

You could say this to your boss: “I do need to take my full lunch break to go home every day like we agreed when I was hired — would you rather I do it during the party or after it?”

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{ 226 comments }

{ 226 comments… read them below }

  1. FunkyMunky*

    #4 – interestingly enough, I always found majority of people wouldn’t take their break if we would have an in office lunch gathering. I never cared who did or didn’t, and just did my own thing, and went out for a lunch break anyway. I’d suggest you go after the festivities are over

    1. RCB*

      Yeah, I’ve had the same experience. Most people wouldn’t take their lunch break if there was an in-office party. I certainly wouldn’t penalize someone if they did though, people deserve time away from the office midday if they want it.

    2. Lunch*

      Well, I’ve been working in offices for more than 30 years now and it would have never occurred to me I could get a second lunch break if my first was for a lunch event. Supposedly the reason food is being provided at most such events is so people don’t take an additional break to get food. Even in a party/more social work event that’s true – there would likely just be cake if it weren’t meant to be lunch.

      The forced attendance is an interesting wrinkle, as in theory most places aren’t so blatant about it even if it’s true, but attendance at a going away party would generally be expected unless you were already scheduled not to work prior to the party announcement or were sick. However, you don’t necessarily have to stay the whole time at most places. So maybe attending for 15-20 minutes followed by going home would probably be viable even if it resulted in a longer than normal break. The key is doing it continuously and going a bit over, not taking a double break.

      Of course, all of that depends on how much you interact with coworkers and how you’re expected to track time. I’ve also worked in environments where you didn’t track time religiously and no one would notice a double break and also a few places where you could be flexible as long as you put in the minimum expected hours.

      1. ChurchOfDietCoke*

        Whereas I’ve worked in offices my whole career and would ALWAYS take a lunch break in addition to any event that fell over lunchtime that was mandatory, even if it was catered. An event that I am required to attend, even if food is provided, is not a lunch BREAK. It’s a catered meeting. My BREAK is for me to do with what I wish (a walk, reading, errands) and I am legally allowed to take it.

        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          Are you non-exempt? Also always worked in offices, always exempt, and very few people would take a second break after a work lunch.

          1. Texan In Exile*

            I was exempt and my feeling was that a work lunch is still work. So I would almost always take a lunch hour later to go to the gym, which was my usual lunchtime activity. (This only works in certain workplaces, though, unfortunately.)

            1. londonedit*

              Yes – we don’t have the exempt/non-exempt thing here but the vast majority of office roles here are salaried, and lunch is unpaid (either 30 minutes or an hour – the work day is 7 or 7.5 hours plus unpaid lunch, so 9-5 or 9-5:30 or whatever). We quite often have lunchtime events where authors come in to talk about their book, or do a workshop or something, and sandwiches are provided. But to me that’s still ‘work’, and where I work it would be absolutely fine for someone to say ‘I’m just popping to the post office before the lunchtime talk, be back by 1’ or ‘Didn’t fancy those sandwiches – just going to nip out to buy something’ or whatever. But then we don’t clock in and out, and it’s a case of if you’re working your hours and getting your work done then you can flex things a little here and there.

        2. Dasein9 (he/him)*

          I too take my break because there’s an equivocation going on here: there’s the lunch that we eat and the lunch that is the break.

          When my employer provides me with food, they provide the lunch I eat. What they aren’t providing is the break, which is every bit as necessary to my well-being. A party at work is part of work, not a break from work.

          1. Potatohead*

            At the last place I worked, they had regular ‘lunch and learn’ sessions that were basically catered presentations by vendor sales reps. We got fed but it overlapped with the 30min unpaid lunch period we were supposed to have. I actually asked about that once and the owner told me that the cost of the catering made up for the half hour of unpaid ‘work’.

              1. tommy*

                exactly — not their call. they couldn’t be like “i’m only giving you half your wages this pay period but here’s a huge bunch of groceries so it ‘makes up for’ the unpaid wages.”

            2. The Rural Juror*

              We have these type of events, too. A lot of times I’ll pop out of the office afterward and take a 15-20 minute walk just to get some fresh air and move around a bit (weather permitting). Those presentations are nice to provide lunch but I still need a brain break.

            3. jojo*

              Not if you have allergies or nedical stuff you do at lunch break. If lunch is an unpaid break you spent it in the manor you choose.

      2. pcake*

        Where I live, forced attendance work events cannot legally be considered your lunch break, regardless of whether food is served. If attendance is mandatory, it’s considered work and time spent at it must be paid as for any work time.

      3. Pro lunch break*

        I think the letter is a special case because it is not only about OP being free to do/re-charging during their lunch break, but OP having a commitment on a regular basis that requires them to leave the office and somebody relying on them to keep this commitment. That could be a medical appointment, taking care of a pet or a friend. If OP cannot do this chore if they can’t leave the office, it is shitty to not tell them in advance and let them plan accordingly. I think OP is justified in taking an extra lunch break in such cases.

      4. Lenora Rose*

        When I worked in a role where I was not allowed to eat at my desk (not the only one in the building, since there were labs and clean rooms elsewhere in the building, but the only one in my area), it was made explicitly clear that if I chose to do the lunchtime yoga (A non-mandatory activity, even more so than a party arranged and paid for by the company, at which my presence was expected), I could ALSO eat my lunch afterwards in the lunch room. I wasn’t necessarily supposed to take the whole 45 minute break if I could eat faster, or dawdle, but it was understood that the way my job was unusual shouldn’t deny me the perk everyone else had.

      5. Sneaky Squirrel*

        At my job, where I am exempt, I would charge that party time as a working hour on my timesheet. I’m expected to be at this party, therefore I’m being paid to be at this party. It is not a break.

        A break is usually unpaid time, and if my employer requires me to work a full 8 hours, that means I have to stay longer to meet that 8 hours. I might choose not to take a break now because I’ve met my mental/physical needs at the party and I do not want to prolong my day at the office.

      6. NotMyNormalName*

        If it is not optional – I still take my breaks . We have staff development days and yes they provide food, but it is still not a mental break. And I am not paid for my lunch break and legally I have to take an unpaid 30 minute break after 6 hours. If I work through my unpaid lunch, then I leave early on the clock.

      7. fhqwhgads*

        This bit of what you said “Supposedly the reason food is being provided at most such events is so people don’t take an additional break to get food.”
        is exactly why it’s illegal in many places/contexts.
        The meal break isn’t just about the food, it’s about being entitled to the break. The length of it is generally required such that it’s time enough to eat – but giving someone food does not eliminate the part where they’re supposed to get a break.
        Does it legally apply to exempt workers? No. But that doesn’t make it unreasonable for an exempt worker to still take their dang break.
        A lunch meeting is a meeting. That makes it work.
        A lunch break is a break. The presence of absence of food is not the issue.

      1. HonorBox*

        It doesn’t sound like the LW was presented a choice or felt like they had the option to skip.

      2. e271828*

        A mandatory-attendance in-office lunch is not a break. Break time is an employee’s time to do with as they please.

    4. Antilles*

      That’s always been my experience too: If the office provides an in-office lunch, nearly everybody would treat that as your “lunch break” rather than taking the hour to eat lunch at the office then ANOTHER hour to do whatever.
      But I also feel like OP could have safely skipped it entirely without problems. Alternatively, OP could have absolutely gotten away with a very quick “make an appearance” where you stop by for like 2-3 minutes, enough to tell Jane congrats on the new role and be ‘seen’ by the director, then quietly slip out.

    5. Laura*

      LW4 here – honestly that’s what I would have done if I didn’t have dogs that needed a bathroom break. I did make my lunch break that day shorter to ensure my workload for the day could be handled. But while I was out, she texted me (but didn’t follow up in person which I found strange) that “just as an fyi” I couldn’t leave for a full lunch if we had a “lunch party” in the office. I am a salaried, non-exempt employee, but I wonder if she thought that party was a break from work and would therefore count as break time? This is an office of primarily men, though, who are not good at making substantive conversation so the entire “break” was me putting in emotional labor to jazz it up a bit because I could not stand the awkward conversation and strange silences.

      1. Helewise*

        That seems off for a salaried, non-exempt position. Not that it helps, but this kind of flex is the whole point of a salaried role.

        1. Annie*

          I’m not quite sure how it works with salaried non-exempt. You’d only get OT if scheduled, but you quite have the same flexibility as exempt? That’s always puzzled me. So does that mean Laura has to work extra time to get the salary in this case if she did take “two lunches”?

          1. Stipes*

            Salaried non-exempt means “your pay is calculated monthly (or whatever), but if you happen to work enough hours to count as overtime, payroll needs to calculate what your extra pay should be”.

            Note that tracking your hours doesn’t have to mean “punching a clock”. Even in hourly non-exempt roles, I’ve had jobs where I just fill hour a time card at the end of each week. Literally typing “8” five times on a web form.

            2. Laura*

              Yeah, this is literally what we do every two weeks. Basically, fill out a form with our hours worked every day (which is 7.5 always). If it was more, then HR calculates additional pay. But you have to get all overtime approved by your immediate supervisor first because your salary comes out of the specific department’s budget.

      2. Mid*

        If you’re non-exempt, meaning you get paid overtime, it’s likely that you still get your lunch break in accordance to your state labor laws (typically 30 min unpaid and 2 paid 15 min breaks for an 8 hour shift), since work parties are still work time if attendance is required. Now, if it’s worth the capital to push back is a different issue.

        For the record, whenever I’m non-exempt, salaried or not, I never clock out for required work events, including lunches and happy hours.

      3. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        Do you have an HR? That just seems legally blatantly wrong AFAIK. Also, please feel free to put in as little emotional labor as the other attendees do!

      4. Bitte Meddler*

        Since this is your first office job and it sounds like you’re a young woman, let this older woman give you some advice: Do NOT perform emotional labor for men in the office. (Also don’t do it in other areas of your life, but this is a work blog).

        Not only will it drain you — as you just experienced — but it will change the way people view you: You will be seen as less professional and less competent for “hard”, strategic work. You will, however, be voluntold to create and lead social events like birthdays or company holiday dinners and the like. You’ll also be asked to coordinate “fun” things like you brining in baked goods for all the men.

        If they’re silent and awkward, then they’re silent and awkward. Let management see how uncomfortable the entire office is with mandatory you-don’t-actually-get-a-break-today lunches.

    6. Momma Bear*

      I generally don’t take a lunch break if there’s a party, but I also don’t watch the clock as closely when it’s an event. I don’t stay longer than is reasonable but if I usually break for 30 mins, I’m not going to sweat 45 with colleagues. BUT LW has this agreement because of the dogs. If they have nobody to let the dogs out and were given no warning, I’d ask to go home vs attending the event. I’d also ask another coworker how often this happens/how much warning you usually get to plan ahead.

      It should usually be optional. We had a happy hour for the holidays. Some of my coworkers don’t drink (religion, sobriety) and if they chose not to go, they weren’t penalized, but they also couldn’t use that charge # and were expected to stay the full day. Those who attended were expected to put in real face time, not grab a cookie and run. (I have issues with this, but it’s above my pay grade.) I think LW needs to find out more about their office norms.

    7. GreenDoor*

      I bet the boss is looking at it as “this is a party, it’s fun, and your food is being provided, therefore the party IS your lunch break.” But if you are mandated to be there, then it’s a work event and you should still get your break. If the party is optional, then I would just say you have the recurring commitment and you’re going to take care of your lunch obligations.

      1. Adult Enough to Know When I'm Hungry*

        I’m sure that’s the case. I’m actually glad that I’m no longer in-office and forced to deal with that. For a variety of reasons, people had various start times (some started as early as 6am(!), my start time was/still is 7am, and some people didn’t start until 8:30. Most people did 8 hour days (including the 1/2 hr lunch, so a shift could be 6-2:30 or 8:30-5). State law here requires lunch at 5 hours into the work day (I think it is a stupid law .. I work 10 hour shifts and I am a grown up who can figure out on my own when to take my own lunch break–I think it’d be even worse for the nurses who are working 12 hour shifts–), so all the all-department lunch events always started at 11am which I found to be ridiculously early for eating lunch (my preferred time is 1:30-2pm and the software I punch in/out on just auto-places the lunch at 12-12:30 — my supervisor knows when I really take my lunch, and we just agree that the state doesn’t need to know the difference). I’d have to go grab a plate at these lunch parties at 11am or the food would be well picked over, but if I ate at 11am, I would be hangry by 4 (with another 1.5 hours left in my work day).

    1. cindylouwho*

      This! I am a big germaphobe and chronically ill so I try not to get viruses/colds when they’re going around. I do an N95 and/or covixyl in my nose. I also keep bleach wipes at my desk, because hand sanitizer only lyses bacteria and not viruses.

    2. I Have RBF*

      This!

      I buy a box every month, whether we need it or not, because we are staring down the next pandemic and wildfire season isn’t over. Plus I have immune compromised people living with me.

    3. Angry socialist*

      You can’t trust other people to take basic public health precautions. The only solution is to wear a mask yourself! I am not ashamed to be the only person at a meeting, party, or event wearing an N95 and I do it regularly. It works.

      1. Katherine*

        This. I do the same because the number of people that will just cough on you in public disgusts me.

    4. K Smith*

      Good advice! OP, sorry you’re in this situation. I think the kind of person that’s oblivious enough to cough on you just isn’t going to change. If you really want to avoid your bosses coughs, you might need to bite the bullet and start masking.

      I (like many others) find N95s incredibly uncomfortable. I find that I fidget and adjust the N95 mask so frequently that I’m probably reducing it’s effectiveness.

      I’ve tried a few ‘not quite as effective but infinitely more comfortable’ KN94 options and found a brand that I like. KN94s aren’t as good as an N95, but they’re absolutely better than nothing.

      I’m the only one in my office that masks regularly and I know I stand out as a bit of an odd bird. But! I haven’t been sick for two years now despite the many colds and coughs my coworkers come down with.

    5. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

      Yes! I wear KN94s in the office, plus carrageenan nose spray.

      The extra value of masking in OP’s situation is putting one on as their boss approaches – it sends a message and people tend to give me more space. So worth it!

  3. cncx*

    OP 1: I am so sorry. People that inconsiderate about coughing are usually selfish in other ways too. Since the pandemic, even people who don’t think coughing is a big deal at least know that other people think it is a big deal.

    1. Fish Microwaver*

      Yeah, it’s amazing how little people learned/retained about basic hygiene during/ since the pandemic.

      1. LaminarFlow*

        It’s wild how much we didn’t learn about hygiene after the pandemic.

        I used to work with someone who wasn’t sick, but he just had this gnarly chronic cough that sounded horrendous. Someone in my old office made a badge for him that read “I’m not sick, I just have a chronic cough”. It was a joke, but the guy ended up wearing it bc it saved him so many “I’m not sick, I just have a chronic cough” comments. To his credit, he always covered his cough.

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          Haha, that’s great! I have asthma and allergies and most winters (including right now) I get a cough that lasts for weeks. At the beginning of the pandemic, if I was out in public, I would find cause to say to someone, loudly, that I wasn’t sick, I just have asthma, so that people wouldn’t think I was about to give them COVID. A badge would have been useful.

          I also want to say that of all the awful things that the pandemic gave us, normalizing mask wearing was one of the only positives I can think of. I wore a mask when I was sick and had to go to the pharmacy, I wore a mask when I had a routine doctor’s appointment but was still coughing, and no one thought twice about it. It made me feel better to not have to worry about coughing on people and not have to make people worried that I was spraying germs into the air.

          1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            Here’s to normalizing masks! I still wear a mask most of the time when I’m out in public, and always when I’m on public transit or otherwise in small spaces with lots of other people. I always see other folks wearing masks, and I do notice that mask-wearing increases whenever I’m hearing about fresh surges of infection. (And I really like non-boring masks. Powecom masks (from Bonafide Masks) is my go-to for good colors. (And I just checked my email to be sure of spelling, and discovered that they’re having a sale: “25% off Sitewide with BFM25, thru February 15th”.))

            1. Dogwoodblossom*

              My girlfriend, my roommate and I all buy colored masks in bulk and last week we went out somewhere and we all happened to have pink masks with us that day and a guy told us he dug “the pink mask squad.”

        2. JMC*

          This is not after the pandemic, we are still IN the pandemic. And anyone who does that is insane. I would flat out refuse to work that closely with someone and I would mask up. And ask that they mask up while around me. Period. There is no reason for anyone to do that kind of thing, that’s nasty and dangerous.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I’ve seen toddlers who know how to cover their mouths and not cough directly ON someone. This person is gross.

    3. Starbuck*

      I’m still shocked at people who think coughing or sneezing into their hand (and not immediately washing it) is ok. It’s disgusting!

  4. Ellis Bell*

    OP1, I work in a school full of coughing children who are yet to remember what they’re supposed to do when a cough or a sniffle surprises them; there are definitely some things you can do. If it’s your desk, you have home advantage and can set up the space to serve you. I would get a large pump bottle of sanitizer and put it front and centre on your desk. Box of easy grab tissues in the same area. Same thing with sanitizer wipes. Reposition yourself so that you’re observing the boss from behind rather than have her leaning over you. Use the sanitizer liberally at key junctures when she’s with you: “Before we start I’ll make sure I don’t pass on this thing that’s going around. Would you like some?”, “Before we switch over, I’ll sanitize so I don’t give you this cough”, “Oh that cough surprised me, let me just top on sanitiser here”. Use the tissues to cough theatrically but hygienically away from her, or the crook of your arm. Model the behaviour you would like to see from her. But most importantly- seat yourself behind her! Then when she’s gone, sanitize the desk, and go wash up afterwards, forearms and all.

    1. Anonosaurus*

      I agree with all of this advice but sanitiser alone isn’t going to prevent transmission of airborne viruses and it would be reasonable for LW to also mask/move away.

      LW in your position if you can afford it I’d get a portable HEPA filter and put it in your desk. this will increase the odds of you being infected by whatever your inconsiderate idiot of a boss is carrying.

      1. Triplestep*

        I think the advice was mainly meant to send constant reminder messages to the boss rather than prevent transmission of airborne viruses.

        1. Armchair analyst*

          Yeah. Eventually the boss will write in to AskAManager, “my employee is a Germaine and always thinks she’ll pass germs to me!” That’s a good problem

      2. Marion Ravenwood*

        Also the HEPA filter feels less like it’s singling the boss out (unless OP is using the sanitiser with everyone that comes to their desk). Whilst there’s nothing in the letter indicating the boss would get malicious about it, if they’re the only person who’s being offered sanitiser that could potentially raise some eyebrows, especially given boss’s level of seniority.

      4. ferrina*

        Yeah, I was thinking LW should mask up.

        Position it to the boss as: “I’m coming down with a cold and I don’t want to get you sick! I’m going to keep the mask on while we’re working so closely together.”

        I’ve used that line a few times and the worst reaction that I’ve gotten was instantly recoiling from me and not say anything else about the mask. A few people thanked me or said that was really smart. So it’s a win-win.

        1. Jaina Solo*

          Oooo, that’s a good idea! I was also wondering if there’s an office germaphobe who’s a peer or higher to OP’s boss. I had a coworker get me sick one time even though we had a really great policy of being able to work from home when sick. Since our VP was our office germaphobe, I made a point to say “so-and-so got me sick” when he was nearby. That seemed to fix the issue and we didn’t have a repeat of that coworker coming in sick. (She’d done it a bunch before but I don’t think VP was aware prior.)

      1. Ally McBeal*

        My lotion and hand sanitizer consumption rates are directly linked, especially during the winter.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        Most hand sanitizer has aloe added to try to help with that, which I know because I know someone who is now allergic to aloe!

      3. Ellis Bell*

        So there’s a short term “training period” at the start of each year in which the students inspire so much sanitizer use that I have no useable fingerprint with with to open my phone! I prefer soap and water whenever possible. Thankfully the training period is short lived after they get the message and the reminders sink in, and then they’re more careful with their germs.

      4. fhqwhgads*

        Apparently most people don’t ever read the packaging and use the correct amount of sanitizer, nor let it dry completely, for it to actually work anyway. Another sad thing learned during the past 5 years.
        Yes, it may irritate the skin a bit, but the frequency described is not wrong.

    3. iglwif*

      This is good advice for making your point and will help with some ways that viruses spread (like the DISGUSTING cough-into-hand-then-grab-mouse behaviour), but no amount of handwashing and sanitizing is going to address airborne (droplet or aerosol) spread of viruses, which is a lot of how people get sick.

      So adding a wee portable HEPA air purifier and an N95 or KN95 mask would help a lot more.

    4. Strive to Excel*

      My mom is in medical. She keeps a spray bottle of appropriately diluted isopropyl alcohol in her purse at all times. As children she was not hesitant about having us disinfect our hands, and she will still spray down her own hands, the shifter, and the wheel of the car any time she’s leaving an event with other people in it. She’s very matter of fact about it and it works well.

  5. Nodramalama*

    LW4 its interesting because if I had a work lunch or work party during lunch, I wouldn’t expect to take an additional break and would be quite confused if others did. By the same token, I’d also expect to be able to miss lunch if I had a pre-existing appointment.

      1. Lunch*

        Yes, but the reason real food is provided is because it’s meant to function as lunch. Otherwise they’d just have cake.

        Taking a second break is not normal practice at most offices.

        1. DeliCat*

          Are you referring to Alison’s last point about taking a break before or after to tend to the dog?

          Because I agree I wouldn’t expect a second break generally however, if the lunch party is mandatory then that’s a little different. It’s not a break. People often use their lunch to run all sorts of errands and if that errand is somewhat immovable (which it sounds like it is in OP’s case) then it’s fair to state that you’ll still need to dash out at some point.

          1. Wolf*

            This! Lunch break isn’t only about eating, it is a time to catch a breath, let your mind get away from work for a quick recharge. A workshop or meeting with food is nice, but it doesn’t let me recharge and regain my focus for the other half of the day.

          2. AlsoADHD*

            Yeah — I don’t much care for working in office (and don’t anymore, thankfully) but for me, a break is about getting away, not eating. I think it’s one thing if the party is optimal and someone chooses to spend lunch there but if it’s required, they still need their break. In OP’s case, there’s a daily obligation to go home anyway so it’s even more moot that they provided food. OP’s daily break is about dog care first, not food.

            1. DJ Abbott*

              Yes, and the employer agreed to let OP go home for lunch when they were hired. What bothers me is the boss doesn’t seem to care about OP taking care of their dogs.

              1. Corrupted User Name*

                Honestly this is the part that gives me the most pause. Even in a case where a manager has some issue with an “extra” break, the fact that it’s know to be about pet care makes the refusal especially insensitive and capricious. It would make me question a lot more about them.

            2. Laura*

              LW4 here – honestly if I didn’t have the dogs, I would just stay at the office and eat my lunch while working so I could leave an hour early (which is allowed and many employees do this!). It’s also common practice that if someone has an emergency and there isn’t any super pressing work tasks, they can come back later in the day or stay late the next day to make up hours rather than take PTO or sick time. So I’m not sure why this was such a big deal to my manager.

          3. doreen*

            I wonder if some of the disagreement is because there are some jobs where for one reason or another, it’s really impossible to leave the premises for a lunch break. And if you spend your lunch break every day at your desk or in a breakroom, then the party doesn’t seem like work , at least not in the same way a “working lunch” with a meeting or training does.

            1. Falling Diphthong*

              And if you use the break in your work day in any way that involves not being in the office–lying down in the break room for 30 minutes, leaving to walk a dog or take your grandma from the senior center to home–then being told “Today, ‘break’ means ‘eating lunch’ and cannot be interpreted in any other way” isn’t on.

              1. KateM*

                The same way as being told “Today, ‘break’ means ‘walking dogs’ and cannot be interpreted in any other way” would not be on, right?

                1. AMH*

                  I’m a bit confused — do you mean it’s not on for the employee to be rigid about their breaks?

                  I agree with others that a lot of times in a lot of offices, taking a break on the day of a party is not done; I don’t think that’s great but company culture is what it is. But man do I disagree that the employer has any right to dictate how an employee uses their breaks, and employees should be free to be rigid in protecting their free time.

                2. Lenora Rose*

                  You’re comparing the employee deciding how to use their own time and the employer deciding how an employee uses their own time.

                3. Observer*

                  The same way as being told “Today, ‘break’ means ‘walking dogs’ and cannot be interpreted in any other way” would not be on, right?

                  If you mean the *employee* saying that, the NOPE. Absolutely not. The employee has an absolute right to define their break the way they see it.

                5. fhqwhgads*

                  Every day work time means “you have to be at work doing a thing work told you to do”.
                  “Break” means “your time is yours”.

          4. Laura*

            LW4 here – this is where I was confused! And honestly, if it wasn’t already the plan for me to walk the dogs that day instead of my partner I would have just stayed in the office. Because it was lunch. But, it wasn’t the “break” on my own time that I was guaranteed when I took this job. It wasn’t termed as “mandatory,” but it was “the party is happening at this time, and we made it that time so everyone could be there” nudge nudge. And, being a new employee, I’m trying not to step on too many toes. But maybe I need to be more assertive in protecting my break time.

              1. Laura*

                I’m a non-exempt employee. We’re required by HR to submit timesheets that verify that we were “in office” the number of hours required (37.5/week) and no more. I previously worked in a different department (that was less office, more “field work”) and I was told explicitly to carefully track those hours as working any more will open the company up to liability as we’re a fairly scrutinized industry.

                1. fhqwhgads*

                  If you’re non-exempt and they told you you had to attend the party, then that party is paid work time, doesn’t count as a break. If there are legally mandated meal breaks where you live, you were still entitled to one that day. If you live somewhere where there is a penalty for not giving you said meal break within X hours of your start time, you’re owed that, even if the party didn’t actually put you over the threshold for OT that day.

            2. Observer*

              but it was “the party is happening at this time, and we made it that time so everyone could be there” nudge nudge.

              Yeah, that “nudge” is important here. If you are non-exempt, that time almost certainly needs to be paid, if you are reading Boss correctly.

            3. Not Tom, Just Petty*

              This thread is really interesting to me. Been in the same office for 30 years. We go through phases where the group of 5-15 is cohesive. We have birthdays and potlucks. 25 years in, good group. We had birthday cake meeting at 12:30. Went on for an hour. It was completely non work and very fun. Back to our desks, an employee senior to me by 10 years put on her coat and went out. My same duration peers felt like, wtf? Couple months later, department potluck. Totally work free. Other people in the group, “I really need to run this errand.” More people went out. Started reading AAM. Realized that as non-exempt, this wasn’t some privilege. I was volunteering to be at work for a work sponsored event. That year after the work Christmas buffet lunch, I put on my coat and went out. As did everyone else. New person started last year, explained to her that it was wasn’t weird, it was sneaky, it wasn’t a gift. It was simple labor law. If you want to go out before or after, you can.

          5. MigraineMonth*

            I think it comes down to whether they’re exempt or non-exempt.

            If they’re exempt, they have to be paid for any required work activity, even if lunch is served/it’s a celebration. If there is a legal requirement that they are given a break, they should be given a separate break.

            If they’re non-exempt, they should be given enough discretion and flexibility to decide to occasionally take a second break if they need it because the first “break” was a required work activity.

        4. Smurfette*

          The fact that food is served is nice but irrelevant – people are still entitled to a break during which they can do whatever they need or want to do.

          At one of my first jobs, the company “generously” allowed all the staff to order nice sandwiches for lunch. Staff typically ate these at their desks, and continued to work, and nobody thought anything of it.

          When I decided to take my sandwich and eat outside with some of my colleagues, management got very upset and started muttering about how we were abusing the “lunch privilege” and that the sandwiches were supposed to be eaten at our desks. This is how we discovered that the lunch was supposed to be a way of making you work through your break, for free.

          This was a company that was doing very well and making its owners incredibly rich – but they still wanted to trick people out of their breaks for the cost of a sandwich.

          1. Rosie*

            That’s very sad. I hope more people started taking their free sangers out to eat. I always check in with anyone eating at their desk – we all need a break.

          2. jez chickena*

            I worked for a privately owned SW company that did something similar. They brought in lunch daily. If you wanted to eat the company-provided lunch, you were supposed to eat in the breakroom with all the employees and management. The conversation was limited to work topics. And the CEO and her husband would turn lunch into an account review or a what-are-you-working-on conversation. You were not supposed to leave the building after eating the company-provided lunch. If you wanted to eat at your desk (my preference) or go out, you were told you were not allowed to eat the company-provided lunch. It was heavily frowned upon to leave for lunch. The company also provided some lunch activities like yoga and a few employee-run clubs. If you participated in these activities, you were not supposed to leave the building. These rules were mostly put in place by the company martyr who hired all his family members for roles they lacked the qualifications for.

        5. HonorBox*

          It might be a break from your desk and you might be fed, but if you’re not given the legally-required break, it isn’t actually a break. If your presence isn’t just “hoped for” but “required” that’s no different than being told that you need to attend a 2:00 meeting with a key stakeholder.

          Secondly, if they had a cake reception, are you suggesting that someone who is supposed to get a 15 minute break in the afternoon isn’t supposed to take that, too, if they are required to attend?

          Also, I’m certain that having a lunch reception for a retiring employee is not normal, either, so some flexibility from the boss would be expected and warranted.

        6. Observer*

          Yes, but the reason real food is provided is because it’s meant to function as lunch. Otherwise they’d just have cake.

          That doesn’t matter, though. The LW need a lunch *break*, not just lunch food. Also, regardless of whether there is food or not, if attendance is required (or even “strongly encouraged”, in most cases), it’s not legally a lunch *break*. It’s paid *work* time.

      3. Lacey*

        Exactly. It’s illegal to hold mandatory work events and not pay employees for their time at them.

      4. mandatory?*

        The OP said it was “heavily implied it would be rude” so feels like it’s a grey area in terms of if it’s actually mandatory. In similar boats I’ve done something like pop into the party for 5 minutes to check that obligation off and then done what I needed to do (though if getting home and taking out the pets usually takes the whole time, that might not work).

      5. toolegittoresign*

        Yes — in my state we legally get breaks so when we were in an office and there was a “team lunch” or whatnot, that counted as a work hour. It’s team-building or morale and part of overhead. I also can’t imagine telling someone “no, you can’t go take care of your pet on days when we have a pizza party.”

    2. Suze*

      I wonder if this is something where the OP is technically right about but it might not be worth damaging their relationship with the team they joined so recently, by digging in. The work lunch doesn’t sound like a frequent event. Can OP get a neighbor or friend to walk their dog?

      1. Sloanicota*

        I do agree, actually. It stinks if a company nickel-and-dimes you on leave and sometimes it creates a rigid mindset around taking leave (ideally they’ll be flexible and *you’ll* be flexible – but that requires mutual trust). You will probably want a backup plan for the dog because I wouldn’t want to risk my whole work relationship over one or two lunches, personally.

      2. Peter the Bubblehead*

        OP took the job with the agreement they would have their lunch break to go home and take care of a daily obligation that will not go away. For her boss to tell her out of the blue this agreement was null and void at the boss’ whim with no prior warning or ability to to cover the obligation (does the OP even know anyone with the ability to access her home and take care of her dog’s needs within a reasonable distance? The nearest family member with a key to my house lives nearly an hour away from me if they are even available at last-minute notice.) goes against what was agreed to when OP agreed to the job.
        Were I the OP, I would have to tell the boss I will attend the party if it is mandatory, but I am still required to take my obligatory break, especially when given no prior notice. If the boss expects me to count a madatory attendence as my break, I need at least 48 hours notice to make other arrangements first.

        1. Sloanicota*

          I mean, to me there’s “right” and there’s “I want to stay in good standing in this job that meets 99% of my needs” but I realize reasonable people can disagree. I don’t know that this situation will come up often enough to make it a hill to die on, for me.

          1. Cnoocy*

            It strongly depends on the consequences of not getting the leave. If missing the break means the dog’s lifespan will be shortened or that they will trash your house, that stops being something that you can shrug off for a day.

          2. fhqwhgads*

            OP mentioned she’s non-exempt. So if the boss being reminded that “if this is mandatory, it’s not a break” ruins the relationship, it means the boss is cool with flouting labor laws. So hopefully raising it in an “of course it’s not your intention to be breaking labor laws” way would not hurt one’s standing.

            1. Enai*

              Yes, the “I will be very disappointed if my employees insist on their rights” gambit is very scummy, actually. How about “my employees will be very disappointed and also well within their rights to call the labor department on me if I take away their break?” Sounds much more reasonable and also less vulnerable to legal action to me.

        2. Antilles*

          That last paragraph feels way too aggressive for the situation and the politics of being a new employee at a new job, with a boss you barely know.
          Especially when we’re talking about a long-time employee’s departure lunch which is something that’s going to happen like once a year at most. If it becomes a regular expectation, then you can have that discussion (but even then, it’s not “I will TELL the boss”, nor a “I need 48 hours notice”), but this feels like a complete one-off.

          1. Peter the Bubblehead*

            The OP took the job on the agreement she would get time to go home EVERY DAY to take care of her dog.
            If the boss can suddenly go against that agreement with no notice, what else are they going to do?
            Boss, you told me I could do this. I’m going to do this because the health of my dog requires it. If you did not want to agree to this stipulation, you should not have said you did.

          2. mandatory?*

            Honestly I would bet that the boss does not remember this agreement nor that it was for pet care. I think Alison’s language is useful because it establishes that you do have to do it either way, while reminding the boss of the details of the agreement/why!

      3. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        Keep in mind that the OP said they go home to “take care of their dog’s needs” this might not mean just a walk. I wonder if they have a dog that needs regular medicine.

        1. Laura*

          LW4 here – They don’t need medication, however they are two large, working-breed dogs, one of whom is prone to vomiting and GDV if not fed at regular intervals. They can go six hours alone, but anything after that is a risk of coming home to random things destroyed or eaten, vomited bile on the floor, and dogs that won’t leave me alone to rest until we’ve done at least four hours of constant activity. Which typically means my entire night is ruined. All of this is alleviated by a twenty-minute walk in the middle of the day and a light lunch. My partner and I alternate who goes home for lunch and on days when neither of us can, we have a dogwalker come by. But to access either of those options, I would have to know at least 48 hours in advance. On the day of the party, I compromised by just dipping home quickly (the commute is 5 minutes – huge plus to this job), walk them, and run right back, instead of relaxing for the rest of the time. But even that 40 minutes was apparently not okay? I did get all of my tasks done that day, prior to normal departure time.

          1. Sloanicota*

            Hopefully it’s not a situation that comes up very often, and now you know the dates of these future parties so you can plan around them. Offices vary in how reasonable it would be to absolutely demand this time every single day, no exceptions, unless given 48 hours notice. In my office it would be a bit eyebrow raise-y, and might make you look a bit out of touch, other places it might be totally fine. If it were me, I’d try hard to do a bit more brainstorming to think of ways to add a little more flexibility for those one-off days where things go screwball, like an emergency friend or neighbor or a more flexible dog walker backup (or maybe you pay double for those rare times, or something). If it were me I’d also make a big show of going above and beyond on the days your bf is on this just to show I’m not always clock-watching and prioritizing my dogs. That might just be me though.

            1. Enai*

              I don’t see what’s unusual about expecting an agreement to be honored. I also fail to see why you believe it’s reasonable for the boss to cancel the employees lunch break with no notice and no compensation. What’s wrong with your workplace norms that you think so?

          2. Hlao-roo*

            My partner and I alternate who goes home for lunch and on days when neither of us can, we have a dogwalker come by. But to access either of those options, I would have to know at least 48 hours in advance.

            Can you (or have you) explained this to your manager? “Hey, my partner or a dog walker can take care of the dogs, but I have to know at least 48 hours in advance to make either of those options work. I’m happy to stay in the office on “party” days as long as I know in advance. Without advance notice, I need to go home for 40 min to take care of the dogs.”

            Hopefully you have a reasonable manager who understands that some things (like arranging alternate care for dogs) are only possible with advance notice!

          3. TitoH*

            Thank you for being so active in the comments and explaining what you did with the dogs! That would stress me out so much. Your boss sounds like kind of a jerk. Hopefully this is a on off and not the sign of a larger issue.

            1. Laura*

              I’m just really interested in everyone’s takes! I’m not really well-versed in this kind of thing and it already seems like a grey area. Plus, my manager *seems* really nice on the surface but I’m wondering if maybe there’s some mismatching ideas of what work is supposed to be. I think she is coming from the stance of “this was a fun party where we all ate and chatted and it wasn’t doing actual work.” But I’m feeling like these types of camaraderie-building events are great, but they’re for the benefit of the work I do, not the life I live and therefore it should be on company time. I’ve been here almost three months now and there hasn’t been a repeat so I’m hoping they’ll be easier to manage in the future.

              1. Freya*

                One of the things I love about my job is that the boss treats our pets as family members for the purposes of WFH and taking flextime.

                Which is great, because we’ve figured out the boundaries that our mastiff has with regards to us being home and him getting fed (he really doesn’t care for no one being in the house with him at 2-4am, for example), and one of the consequences of those boundaries not being respected is that he gets anxious and goes into a thought spiral that, on one memorable occasion, resulted in him getting his children’s size mattress from IKEA through the dog door and into the backyard intact, and THEN destroying it. But the mastiff is fairly easy to reassure, as long as the load-bearing parts of his routine are still there.

                One of the other things about my job that I love is that our boss is explicit about the fact that breaks are there to be taken and work events are still work time.

      4. Laura*

        LW4 here – I could have asked my partner to walk the dogs for me, had I known about this party more than 24 hours in advance (their schedule is also pretty flexible on when they can take lunch) but the party moved from a Friday to a Wednesday and I only learned about the switch as I was leaving the office on Tuesday. By that point, my partner has set up their day’s schedule and our dogwalker needs more than that kind of notice as well. The parties aren’t very common (maybe five times a year) so it isn’t a super big deal, but I found myself feeling uncomfy about it and wanted to solicit other opinions, especially because I don’t have much office culture experience!

        1. Jenesis*

          I hope you mean five mandatory work lunches a year, not five retirement parties a year, right?

          Because 5 people leaving a year would send up “abnormally high turnover” alarm bells for me, unless this is a very large office, but if that’s the case, why are you expected to have enough of a personal relationship with each one of them to attend their parties and contribute money to their going-away funds?

          1. Laura*

            Yes, just work lunches! There’s actually a pretty good retention rate which was another reason I accepted the job. But it was communicated to me indirectly that these kinds of things happen during the winter holiday season, when an employee leaves, and some select monthly staff meetings (no idea which ones though – it was just termed as “sometimes”). We had a staff breakfast right away when I started for one of those monthly staff meetings but then of course everyone also left for lunch on that day.

      5. Dahlia*

        Are we supposed to have friends/neighbours who not only have keys to our house but also don’t work and have no plans so they can drop everything they’re doing if we call them up at the last minute to walk our dogs?

        Because. Because I don’t.

        1. Enai*

          That’s what the housekeeping staff is for.
          …
          What do you mean, you can’t afford a butler, a maid, a cook, a chauffeur and a person who sees to your animals on you salary? Next, you’ll tell me you don’t have a gardener for the manor grounds either?

    3. LaminarFlow*

      Same. But, I also would play this differently. I’m a lunch hour protector, and in the LW’s shoes, I definitely would not have asked my manager about what I am allowed to do. I would have said nothing until the event started. At that point, I would pop-in for a few minutes, and then leave while citing an existing appointment that I need to run to. Something like “Hey! Congratulations on your retirement, Guy! Sorry I can’t stay, I need to get to an appointment, but have a great time!”

      If my manager approached me afterwards to tell me I was in the wrong for leaving Guy’s retirement party, I would open up the conversation on the expectations for these types of parties that happen during the work day. If the conversation doesn’t align with the laws of my role classification, I would bring that up to HR.

      1. Antilles*

        At that point, I would pop-in for a few minutes, and then leave while citing an existing appointment that I need to run to.
        This is the way. It is enough to make it seem like you care*, while still letting you get what you need done.
        *To the extent that OP even *can* care about a Departing Co-worker who you’ve known for less than two weeks.

      2. Laura*

        This is definitely what I should have done (both the leaving and the conversation). I was just kind of unsure about how these things usually go (during the party) as it’s a pretty small team of twelve people working in a separate building than the rest due to the nature of our work. We were all kind of sitting there eating and trying to have one big conversation around one big conference table? That was kind of stilted? It was weird. And then when my manager texted me that while I was away (and didn’t follow up in person??), I was really taken aback but kind of figured I was in the wrong for breaking some unspoken office rule that everybody knows about, this being my first real “office” job.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      I’m not saying my thoughts are right, but …

      If it’s a farewell party then it is socializing and it counts as your lunch break. But you should not be required to attend.

      If it some sort of lunch meeting or lunch and learn then you should still be able to take a break, but lots of people won’t. Either because they just “take lunch” for that purpose OR because they missed an hour of work already and have enough to do that they don’t want to cut another hour from their work day.

      The LW is stuck in the middle with the boss making it mandatory but calling it the “lunch break” and I agree with Alison and would offer the same advice.

  6. Triplestep*

    #1: Alison’s advice about saying you’re “really close to someone who gets sick easily” would be the first thing I’d say before implementing any of the other advice. Although not a full time care giver, I am primarily responsible for my elderly mother and I have found people to be much more understanding when I lead with this to explain my own behavior (masking when others aren’t, self isolating, etc.)

    For some reason, a desire to keep my mother healthy is looked at more favorably than wanting to keep myself healthy, which some people (wrongly) look at as excessively self-protective.

    1. Observer*

      For some reason, a desire to keep my mother healthy is looked at more favorably than wanting to keep myself healthy, which some people (wrongly) look at as excessively self-protective.

      That’s true. But isn’t it *weird*?

      1. I Have RBF*

        Very weird.

        My goto might be “I live with someone who is immune compromised.” Even if that person was myself.

      2. Workerbee*

        Up to a certain level*, we’re taught to put ourselves last.

        *not applicable to all the ***** in the recent executive dysfunction post.

  7. Irish Teacher.*

    LW3, I’d say take your cues from your friend. Just tell her factually about the job you have got and if she suggests celebrating or wants to congratulate you or asks you for more detail – when you are starting, what you’ll be doing, etc – go with it, but if she just says “oh good luck” and moves the conversation on, then go with that.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I appreciate that OP is thinking about this, some people never do, and it comes up in so many ways. It behooves us to be thoughtful when we know we juts got something that someone else has been struggling to get. I’d say a) recognize your good fortune and lead with humility as you share the news – if this works out you got lucky in some ways, and that’s great; plus, it would be sad to let your friend worry you think she deserves what’s happening to her or that you’re better than her. b) Don’t make such a huge point of avoiding the topic that you make it seem like you don’t think she can handle it, but also don’t make this friend the person you go to for sharing your joy right now. Also, on the off chance she *is* hurt and takes it out on you, that doesn’t make it your fault or mean you conveyed the news wrong, it’s just something she’s going through, so you can probably give her a little space and some grace since you’re in a good place right now.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        Yes, it’s really good of her to consider her friend’s feelings.

        And that is great advice.

    2. cleo*

      Agreed, with the addition that LW3 shouldn’t tell the friend in person. Send a low key text or email after the job is finalized and let the friend manage her emotions on her own time.

  8. I should really pick a name*

    #2
    I’d wait to see how the skip level meetings go before saying anything.

    It sounds like everything the LW knows is secondhand, so letting Dave hear from the people affected directly should happen first.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      i think she should raise it first. Skip level meetings may not happen for a bit or it may take awhile for the reports to feel comfortable telling Big Boss that their direct boss is a problem.

      Also if OP tells Big Boss first, then BB knows to probe a little on the issue Instead of waiting and hoping they just blurt it out.

      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I agree OP should talk to the boss sooner. For one thing, the boss might expedite meeting with the employees if he knows their is a problem, and would be able to ask specific questions.

      2. Jaina Solo*

        Agreed! It sounds like Jeb is managing up so his team does need the support of a higher up in this case. Boss and OP don’t see this behavior first-hand by design–Jeb doesn’t want them to.

    2. Guacamole Bob*

      It sounds to me like some of the junior staff are telling OP these things directly, so I’d act on it now – they are likely approaching OP as a senior colleague they feel more comfortable talking to than going straight to Dave. OP can share those concerns with caveats that they haven’t witnessed the behavior in person.

    3. Slow Gin Lizz*

      On top of what the other two commenters said here, I think it also sounds like maybe the employees are hesitant to schedule skip meetings, which is totally understandable. It sounds like OP has a lot of capital and this is a concerning enough situation that they should talk to Dave about it directly and not wait for the new employees to raise their concerns. It’s hard to know as a new employee what is and isn’t something that your skip-level boss will be able to do something about it, whereas for OP, Dave is a known quantity.

    4. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      If this were a case of inefficiency or micromanaging or something, I’d agree. But this sounds like the manager is abusive, and that requires intervention.

    5. iglwif*

      But OP has more seniority and standing with Dave, which will likely (a) make it easier and safer for OP to mention it than for a new and very junior employee to do so, and (b) make Dave more likely to take the concerns seriously.

    6. Heffalump*

      Ideally, Dave would evaluate what he heard on its merits, regardless of the source. Realistically, he may be more receptive if he hears it from the letter writer rather than from Jeb’s reports.

  9. Productivity Pigeon*

    I’m currently on a long job hunt that is causing me a lot of stress.

    I am still delighted for my friends when they get a new job or a promotion!

    I would be more sad if you kept it from me or assumed I wouldn’t want to hear it or celebrate it.

    I might feel a prick of jealousy but if we’re close, I want to know the good things that happen to you and be happy for you, even if it’s something I struggle with.

    It’s the same as when people get engaged or have kids. I don’t have a partner or a kid and I really, really want them, but I am perfectly able to separate my individual feelings and general happiness at good news. I want to be a part of my friends’ lives.

    But everyone is different and I don’t presume to say other people would feel as I do.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, I think how you feel is ideal – but, it’s also very common for people to struggle a bit. I can have patience with it when I know it’s a specific thing they’ve been working hard for, as life does often seem very unfair and I don’t need to “rub it in.” (Maybe I have a bit less patience with some people who seem to believe *every good thing* that happens to anyone else is “taking it away” from them in some way …).

    2. Momma Bear*

      I agree to follow the friend’s lead because sometimes it’s good to hear good news, even if it’s not yours. But sometimes you just can’t. Occasionally I have had to tell friends I am happy for them, but not the right person to gush about it with.

  10. Falling Diphthong*

    How to be supportive and helpful around celebrating.

    OP3, this is not the person in your circle to celebrate this particular happy bit of news with.

    That’s the baseline, and there are close relationships where the other person is able to fully set aside their sadness about “not me” and be there for “but yes for my loved one!” But as a baseline, you figure that you quickly achieving the thing they really want and can’t have is likely to cause some roiled feelings, and so for C it’s “I got a new job at Acme Corp, targeting their universalism; I start next month” and with D it’s “I got the job! At Acme Corp! I can’t believe it was so easy and quick, can you?!! This is so great! Let me tell you all the steps, again, as I bounce for joy!”

    1. Productivity Pigeon*

      I just want to gently push back and say that not everyone reacts that way.

      I am in a similar position to OP’s friend and I would be hurt if someone didn’t believe I could be happy for them wholeheartedly.

      I totally agree that you need to tell different people in different way and be mindful of how the news impacts them but I’m a grown woman and I can separate my feelings about my own situation and my feelings about things that happen to my loved ones.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        That’s why I refer to it as a baseline, not a rule that fits all circumstances. You can start at version C, and let the other person indicate whether they would be happy to move straight to version D, or to something in the middle, or if their sincere “That’s great; I’m happy for you” is as much time as you should spend on it right now.

        It’s not that far off the social calibration “Some people want to hear about your latest Pokemon at great length, and for others you need to rein it in.”

        I’m not advocating hiding the news completely, or not expecting them to express happiness for your good news. But to use some ongoing judgment regarding whether this is right person with whom to wallow in all the details. (About good news, bad news, or a bit of celebrity gossip that affects neither of you.)

    2. Sloanicota*

      I actually really agree with you FD. I think lead with a bit more gentleness as you say, and if the other person indicates they really *do* want the whole nine yard of celebration, you can calibrate at that point. But it doesn’t hurt to tamp down the “omigosh, so much easier than I thought, wow what a relief, great jobs are really just falling out of the sky right now” piece of it to this specific friend.

  11. Can’t think of anything clever*

    Regarding the break issue…As always these things can vary around the country but generally if lunch is paid your boss can tell you that you have to go to the lunch. If it’s not paid you can’t be restricted. As long as you are back in the office when expected you can do pretty much what you want. One of my first jobs lunch was 15 minutes paid and 30 minutes unpaid. One manager tried to restrict employees from leaving to go any further than the building food court. Nice try but if we could make it someplace further and back in the unpaid time, HR told him no restrictions.

  12. Just Saying*

    Regarding LW2, I am concerned with the advise provided that just telling Dave about the situation and not Dave’s boss may result in Dave retaliating against his team. He already seems very vindictive and petty towards his direct reports now. Just because someone he respects talks to him about the situation doesn’t mean Dave won’t figure out who has been telling the LW what’s been going on and make their lives even more miserable.

    1. Ahpuhtuh*

      I think you’re accidentally merging two people – Jeb is the bad boss and Dave is Jeb’s (and OPs) boss?

  14. Not the nanny*

    #3 But whatever you do, don’t tell you friend, “Well, you know, you need to use key words.” I got to hear all about my friend’s perfect job offer – six figure salary, negotiated work from home and a pay bump in-lieu of health insurance – and this was her response to my struggle to get a minimum wage job. I was happy for her, but that feeling was overshadowed by her inability to emphasize, despite her own difficult job search several years earlier, and her condescending tone. (Add to that, the fact she once suggested I be her nanny, it left me feeling like she saw herself as superior.)

    I say, tell your friend when you get the job, but spare her the details and “celebration,” and be sure not to dismiss her experience in the process.

    1. Sloanicota*

      And … don’t make her the audience for your future complaints about adjusting to your new job! I see people make this mistake all the time. If you know you have something someone else desperately wants and can’t have, like a nice salary, just pick a different person as your venting buddy when the potato concierge is out of your favorite Idahos today :P

    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      This is the career equivalent to saying to someone with a health problem, “Have you tried yoga?” A friend of mine did that to another friend (someone she’d just met, we ran into this person out in public) and I cringed inwardly.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        If the word “negotiated” applies to both WFM and pay bump in-lieu of health insurance this makes sense to me. I know someone who negotiated a pay bump in-lieu of health insurance. In the situation I know of, the job offered health insurance, but the person had health insurance through other means* so they negotiated a higher salary in exchange for not using the company’s health insurance.

        Maybe Not the nanny will come back and clarify if that’s the case here as well.

      2. AF Vet*

        For me, it would be because health insurance is already covered for me and my family through my old military benefits. The VA actually does a pretty awesome job on Healthcare (they have more issues with the exams to determine disability benefits, which is a PITA)! Why force a company to pay $5k, or whatever, in health insurance I’m not going to use, when it could go in MY pocket instead?

      3. Not the nanny*

        AF Vet is exactly right. She had VA benefits. Health insurance is part of the compensation package, but if employees wave it, most companies weren’t willing to increase the salary so the entire package would still be the same.

    4. JB (not in Houston)*

      Oh, wow, I hope she grew up . . . or she’s now an ex-friend. With friends like that, you don’t need enemeies

    5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Yeah certainly tell the friend, but don’t gush about it. I think one thing to remember is that different sectors are hiring faster than others.

  15. HonorBox*

    I’ve run into similar situations to #4 several times. I think that there’s a general assumption that the in-office thing serves as your break. But I don’t think assuming – either from the boss’s standpoint or the employee’s standpoint – gets you to the right spot. When I was a boss and we had something similar occur, I had staff members leave to do whatever they might have done during their lunch hour. Sometimes they’d ask if it was OK, sometimes not. And unless it was completely disruptive, I didn’t give it much of a second thought. I think that because the situation in the letter paints this as a compulsory event, it is work…not break. And if people are required to attend, even though they’re being fed and can socialize, they’d need to be paid (if hourly) or be given the flexibility they’d have otherwise, to run an errand or leave the office.

  16. MissAgatha*

    I had a boss who would cough all over people, in addition to picking her nose at my desk and never washing her hands when she went to the bathroom even when she had a stomach bug. (Yep.) Needless to say she was constantly sick. Once she coughed directly in my face without covering her mouth. I don’t have a great poker face under the best of circumstances and I couldn’t hide the look of utter disgust on my face. To her credit, I saw the realization hit her that she was maybe being gross and she stopped coughing in my face but I don’t understand how she thought it was ok before that.

    1. Cookie Monster*

      Wow, that is…incredible. A grown adult realizing that for the first time is…fascinating. I’m sorry you had to go through that. And I think a disgusted look is completely warranted.

  17. Pigeon*

    I’d like to gently push back on the suggestion that OP1 state that they are “close to someone who gets sick easily” and say that it’s absolutely fine to politely and neutrally express to others that you don’t wish to get sick yourself. It’s not selfish or inconsiderate to want to avoid becoming ill!

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It’s not selfish/inconsiderate to want to avoid getting ill, but in my experience people are way more likely to not be weird about it if you say you’re doing it for someone else rather than yourself. As a lower level employee dealing with a power imbalance, it’s understandable that LW1 might want to reduce the friction here as much as possible.

  18. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

    OP1 – I am annoyingly prone to upper respiratory infections. As a result, I’m still masking when I’m indoors in public. This includes when I’m in the office (where a lot of people have been coughing lately). Yes, it is annoying and far from the most comfortable thing in the world. But I also haven’t had a major upper respiratory infection since March 2020, and I haven’t gotten a secondary bacterial infection since November 2019. The tradeoff is worth it to me.

    1. iglwif*

      I’m not especially prone to anything in particular (at least, not currently) but I have also been masking this whole time and haven’t been sick — not with COVID, not with flu, not with a cold — since the one time my entire household got COVID in late December 2021.

      And it is GREAT. I haven’t had to cancel plans, miss a rehearsal or concert (I’m a choral singer), or take time off from work due to illness even once in THREE FULL YEARS, and all those things used to happen a few times a year before 2020. (I also didn’t get sick at all between March 2020 and December 2021, but we were barely going anywhere during that time so it’s not quite the same.)

      My spouse, who works in an office 4 days a week (I wfh full-time and have since 2017) and is the only one on his team who ever masks at all, has had COVID 2 more times since 2021. Both times I have succeeded in not getting it, while living in the same 700-square-foot apartment with him, by masking, running the HEPA air purifier, and keeping windows open as much as feasible.

      I don’t love wearing a mask everywhere! But I also find the tradeoff 100% worth it.

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        I think this is the key thing: wearing a mask may feel inconvenient, but I’ll take inconvenience over being sick any day of the week. I really don’t understand why people just accept being constantly sick as normal. It wasn’t the reality for most people pre-pandemic, but most people seem to have memory-holed that.

        1. Hroethvitnir*

          I am not remotely anti-mask, and I remain absolutely bemused that’s a thing (???), but for perspective: I almost never catch other’s diseases, and have had URIs in my 20 years as an adult less than a handful of times.

          Also, perspectives is a weird thing. One of my partner’s employees who was afraid of the COVID vacc went from saying COVID was the worst URI he’s had to saying it was mild in less than a week. I think people who are ideologically married to denying how airborne infections work just… lie to themselves.

          It’s a pet peeve that increased airflow requirements haven’t even remotely considered in any country I’ve heard of. That’s a real public health initiative that could help without relying on individuals to make good decisions.

      2. Elsewise*

        My partner, who works in a medical establishment, has never gotten covid even when I had it in the same household as them! I’ve only had it once, and I’m writing this on my way to a doctor’s appointment for what I suspect might be long covid. I am the only one who masks at work.

        Sadly, I think for a lot of people, basic hygiene like “cover your cough” has become politicized.

  19. pnwgirl*

    What caught my eye in the work “lunch” letter, was the fact that the lunches were funded by company and staff. Are employees are chipping in for these lunches? That doesn’t seem awesome.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I’m wondering if its more the employees are chiping in for the party. So like for the cake or the deocrations or whatever, but the lunch food is paid for by the company.

    2. Laura*

      LW4 here – That was another thing, actually! We were initially all going to chip in $10 for a gift card (as a parting gift) to this employee, which was also presented to me as a “this isn’t mandatory, but I’d think badly of you if you don’t do it” kind of thing. But the party had to be moved two days earlier so more people could attend, and my manager asked if I would use my $10 instead to go get any kind of dessert I wanted to contribute. I should add here that I’m salaried, but it’s just above minimum wage and just under a livable wage for my area so being asked to contribute money to a party for an employee I barely know two weeks in was a little iffy. Another employee got drinks with his $10, and company money was used to buy the pizza.

      1. e271828*

        This company is kinda cheaping out here. A mandatory-attendance work event shouldn’t be catered by the employees.

      2. Coffee*

        Did anyone ask beforehand if you can eat pizza? Do they just assume nobody has special dietary needs?

        1. Freya*

          Anyone who expects to provide pizza for me to eat without asking about food issues can share an office with my lactose-intolerant cheese-eating stank

  20. Blue Pen*

    #1 — Nothing more to add except more shock and incredulity at how reckless and rude people can be. It’s now abundantly clear why the flu is so high this year—four of my close friends either have it now or are just getting over it, and that’s never happened before.

    1. Swix*

      The flu is high in some areas, but COVID is still circulating at higher levels in most of US, Canada, and the UK. Since it’s hard to get tested properly, people often don’t know which one they had.

  21. dulcinea47*

    My workplace has a pretty good solution for the work party thing. We’ve been told we can have a half hour of work time for a party. So you can either spend time at the party *and* still take your lunch, or you can combine work/free time and spend your lunch break at the party too. It’s simple, it’s clear, no one is being forced to party or give up their own time.

    Of course all of this depends on the party not being mandatory to begin with.

  22. Tradd*

    The easiest way to handle #3 is to just put a general announcement on social media, if you use it.

  23. Fish Microwaver*

    I’m wondering why OP1 felt the need to mention that their new boss was an older woman. We already get the power differential from the words “New boss”.

    1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Because she also said she herself is young. It’s context. There is a large differential in both age *and* position that makes her feel awkward about what to say. Power isn’t the only axis.

      Can we cut LW’s some slack? Too much info, why so much? Too little info, why so little? Editing grammar, nitpicking word choice, omg someone mentioned age/gender. You could have puzzled out your “wonderment” yourself without all the snark.

      1. Agent Diane*

        Yep. If your comment is not helping the letter writer, think twice about it. We’re not here to critique letters. We’re here to offer advice, commiseration and enjoy a tiny little bit of voyeuristic “OMG, what?” about terrible work situations.

        In this instance, I can easily imagine how the comments would have gone without the detail that the boss is a woman. “Whoa, why is your boss getting close enough to breath on you? Is this guy a creep?” etc. So it was relevant for cutting off a huge swathe of speculation in the comments before it could start.

        1. Nodramalama*

          I disagree. I think if we don’t agree with something in a letter, we can also point that out.

              1. Allonge*

                And other people are allowed to point out that it’s not a question whose answer will help the LW in any way, or that it’s done too aggressively compared to the weight of the perceived issue it points out.

              2. Myrin*

                Sure, but Fish clearly seems to be assuming some sort of nefarious reason – some variation of “OP is prejudiced against older women”, most likely – when OP probably included it for no particular reason whatsoever and we have no reason to assume bad intentions.

              3. JB (not in Houston)*

                Sure, if you can connect your question to some kind of actionable advice for the OP. If knowing why she included the information change your advice to her, then you can include how that would change your advice in your comment. But if you’re just nitpicking, keep it to yourself.

      2. Marion Ravenwood*

        I think this is not specific to AAM (Refinery29 Money Diaries are also notorious for commenters complaining that they got too much/too little detail about the diarist’s life). But I agree – I don’t know if Alison has a word limit (either when letters are submitted or if they’re edited down for brevity afterwards, presumably with LWs’ input if it’s the latter), but we can only go on the information that we’re given, and so I think including the context that the boss is an older woman is absolutely relevant here and will influence people’s answers.

      3. LaminarFlow*

        Yes! People who write in are typically giving details that help to paint a picture of unspoken power dynamics that exists between themselves and others in their workplaces. Details like age, position in the company, tenure, and sex all contribute to unspoken power dynamics.

        How to approach situations where power dynamics are at play can be nerve wracking, especially when someone is early in their career, and new to a company.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Sometimes bosses don’t have a lot of clout, and their performance is being watched by others, and sometimes new managers (as in new to management) aren’t going to cut it, and you just have to wait them out, and it isn’t going to matter in the long run if they dislike you. OP’s boss is a senior vice president and I read the details OP included as indicating the boss has an awful lot of capital relative to them, a very young and junior employee, as well as experience, and even if they moved teams they wouldn’t want to offend them.

    3. Irish Teacher.*

      I think there is some relevance. While it may not be entirely logical, younger employees often feel a greater power differential with older bosses than with bosses closer to their age. I guess it’s a kind of hangover from school.

      I know when I was in my 20s, I would have found it easier to push back against a boss in their 20s or early 30s than I would have against a boss in their early 50s. There can be a sense that younger people don’t feel like authorities in the same way somebody more experienced in life does.

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        Conversely, in tech, I feel a bigger power differential with a younger boss, who’s more likely to regard me as obsolete. Age is weird because the power differential can go both ways, so we’re all bringing our own context – some will see “she’s older” as “so I feel uncomfortable pushing back” and some as “so she’s losing it and is going to do weird stuff”. If you’re in a field where you’re perceived as “older” once you hit 40 you’re more likely to interpret it as the latter.

        1. Myrin*

          Totally, but I feel like the context in this particular letter is pretty clear: “She’s an older woman and a senior vice president, I’m a younger and far junior, brand new employee. Do I have any standing to…”, with “standing” possibly being the most important clue here.

    4. londonedit*

      I mean, the person I’d describe as ‘my boss’ is one level above me. If they were doing something like this I could, at my age and stage of my career, and with the narrow gap in the hierarchy between us, and with the working relationship we have, say something like ‘Ooh, shall we come back to this when you’re not coughing?’ or ‘Let me just move over here, since you’re coughing’ or whatever.

      If I was a junior employee who’d just joined the company, and the ‘boss’ was a senior vice-president? No way. Plus, there’s the gender issue – people would have been all over the ‘Is your boss male? It’s super creepy for him to be that close to you while you’re working, let alone coughing all over you’ thing.

      Age and gender does sometimes make a difference, and I think it does here because it immediately explains the power dynamic.

  24. A Simple Narwhal*

    Re #3 – This reminds me of the question of how to share pregnancy news with a friend struggling with infertility. It’s not a perfect match, but it’s similar enough that I think at least one piece of advice is similar – don’t tell them in person, send them a text instead. It will give them the space to feel their own feelings and save them from having to perform happiness for you while possibly being devastated for themselves.

    Your friend might not be nothing but thrilled for you! But a text gives them a chance to process their feelings privately if they’re not.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      *Your friend might be nothing but thrilled for you

      Whoops rewrote my sentence and left in an accidental double negative

  25. GayLeftist*

    #1, you can also wear an N95 mask! Wearing one will help keep you healthy and encourage others around you to do it when they are sick. Disappointed that Alison did not bring this up. Masks aren’t perfect but they do help a lot. Use hand sanitizer and bleach wipes.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      She mentioned masks at the end of the second paragraph, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

  26. EA*

    OP3, do you actually need to tell your friend it was a short job search? I don’t think the friend needs to know that, and you could have been casually looking for much longer. You can share that you got a new job without emphasizing the month-long search. If the friend asks you how long it took or presses for details, you could say something like, “I got really lucky and found this opportunity pretty quickly” but not dwell on it.

  27. Cruciatus*

    I am curious about people who have transitioned from retail/kitchen environments into a more corporate or at least just not retail environment. My boyfriend was a professional chef most of his life, but it’s pretty physically demanding so more recently he’s worked more in a retail/grocery setting and now he’s a manager of a section at a chain grocery store, but it comes with all the “fun” of retail–constant call offs, firings because of constant call offs, no set schedule–working nights, weekends, but it can all differ one week to the next, not to mention never being off on most holidays. He doesn’t think he has a lot of transferable skills into something he would call a “desk job,” but I’m wondering if anyone has been able to make this sort of switch.

  28. Calamity Janine*

    it’s such a good thing Alison gives the advice instead of me, because all i can think for LW1 is…

    when you’re ready to leave this job, come in, play up an obvious sneeze (fake or not, wherever the spirit leads you) while your boss is near. then simply grab her senior vice president sleeve and use it to wipe your nose. don’t be subtle. take acting cues from toddlers auditioning to be avatars of the horseman of the apocalypse that is Plague. leave a visible snot trail. (enhancements from stage and screen are fully permissable here. i’m pretty sure you can hide some modern version of Nickelodeon’s gack in your hand to do the wiping with. just maybe avoid ones with glitter in there.) when she asks you what in God’s green gack-filled earth you are doing, look at her with perfect innocence and sweetness and say – “oh, i thought we were that close! you never seem to let a little snot get between us as colleagues, after all!”

    then go be escorted out of the building by security, basically. but what a way to go! it’s almost as impactful as writing your resignation in cod!

    …okay, for advice that isn’t meant to be wretched from the first…

    if you’re looking for a joking way to bring up wearing a mask while also making a point, i really like explaining a mask as “oh, i have seasonal allergies so i’m wearing my snot catcher!” because, well… functionally that is indeed what it is lol! hearing you cheerfully refer to that by its main use may be a way to get some neurons to connect of “ah yes, snot… a thing i also produce…”. and you can easily segue into talking about how you just so happened to watch this interesting video on how masking was done in places like Japan even before covid, where wearing a mask while having the sniffles – even from something that can’t be transmitted to others, like allergies – was seen as the polite way to keep your snot to yourself and an important thing to do for the community around you (same as how it’s important to not litter). maybe she’ll get the hint! maybe she won’t. there’s layers here of how direct you can reasonably be to someone so far above you when you’re a new junior employee. it kinda sucks that we have our hands tied by this sort of regimental chain of command… while it’s also easier to afford visits to the doctor and dayquil for colds when you’ve got a job employing you.

    godspeed, good luck, and ample hand sanitizer supplies be with you, basically!

  29. Delia*

    #3 – had exactly the same situation as LW – worked well with a peer then saw them flail at being a manager with debilitating effects on new hires. Had one of the new hires come to me in confidence to share what was happening to them and others who didn’t want to report up (micromanaging, telling them not to consult with anyone other than themselves, cancelling their vacation approval for no reason, berating them and belittling them) and I offered to escalate the issue; someone else ended up observing the bad behavior and escalated to our senior supervisor. It really stunned me how someone could be generally fine as a peer but in a managerial position they turned into a nightmare boss. They hid it well in front of me and other senior people (I would have laughed if they had tried that crap on me), but it was apparently very bad for the new recruits who didn’t know any better. Same situation, they were all smart, capable, great additions to our organization and I was sorely pissed that they might be scared away by this guy. Good news is that escalation worked, the problem manager has reined it in and seems aware that their behavior would not be tolerated, but we did lose one new hire which made me furious. So now when we have new hires, I make sure to tell them in front of others that we have a complete open door policy, consult with anyone you want to, we will support you, direct them to our excellent office manager should they have any questions about vacation approvals etc. and say right out loud we have a no bullying policy. Did it at our very next teams meeting so it was on the record.

  30. Sparrow*

    #3, I want to weigh in as someone who’s actually in the same position as your friend right now: I’ve been searching for a new job for several years now with little luck. This month, a good friend of mine who works in a different field decided to start looking around at other jobs, immediately got an interview for one of the first jobs they applied to, and are hopeful that they’re going to be getting an offer soon.

    I’m not gonna lie, this was a little rough for me emotionally—but I’m still glad that my friend let me know, and I am genuinely happy for them. I don’t know if this would work in your situation, but my friend communicated the news to me in an ongoing group chat we have with several other friends, which ended up being great for me. People in this group chat are spread across multiple time zones and have a wide spectrum of schedules, and so it’s very common for people to respond to messages either hours later or not at all. Because my friend conveyed the news in the group chat, I was able to take a few hours to process this emotionally without my silence standing out at all, and then send a quick message later after the initial sting had passed. I know this won’t work in every situation, and I can certainly see some people finding this worse than just being told directly, but I wanted to throw that out in case it seems like something that would be useful here.

    Regardless of how you tell them, though, I definitely agree with Alison’s advice to keep it pretty matter-of-fact. I’d recommend going for a tone similar to what you’d use to convey something like “My company is moving me to a different office” or “My department finally got the budget to send me to that conference I’ve been wanting to go to”—something you’re telling them more for the purpose of keeping them updated on your life than something you’re expecting them to celebrate extensively.

  32. Raida*

    1. My new boss coughs all over me

    Ugh.

    Honestly…? The answer here is “Speak up.” if you can’t do that in any one of a variety of ways, you are gonna keep getting coughed on.

    If this were me? I’d never ask the question – cough number one would have resulted in a “hey hey hey now, you’re way too close to be coughing with your mouth uncovered.” and “Mate. What are we doin here? You coughed into your hand and then put it on my mouse?” So it really comes down to you getting yourself into the mindset where you *can* speak up.

  33. Raida*

    2. Should I tell our boss that my coworker sucks at managing his team?

    While Allison makes an excellent performance-management suggestion, I’ll go another way with this one:

    Read your Code of Conduct.
    Are you charged with a responsibility to report bullying?
    If so, tell Dave that you are *required* to inform him of Jeb’s standover tactics – he’s lying, threatening, etc. Tell him that 1:1’s with Jeb’s team to get a clear view, and involving HR – this is a Business Risk let’s not forget – are probably the next steps for Dave to take… etc.

    If a manager lies to their staff, lies to their own manager, threatens them with fake performance issues and you’ve heard about it? I guarantee there’s way more – has he started doing the fake complaint thing yet? “Someone complained to ED/HR and they’ve told me that you talked too much yesterday instead of working. I have to talk to you about this, since it’s a complaint, via the ED/HR.” oh who was it? not possible to answer. I’d like to talk to HR about it. No, they expect me to handle it. I don’t think we did anything wrong and so we should talk to the person who complained to understand their perspective. No, just get back to work.

  34. Lulu*

    LW1 I am so sorry about your boss coughing on you. It struck it a chord because my boss does the same. If she attempts to cover it, it is right into her hand. Yuck. I wear a mask in meetings and wash my hands lots and lots.

  35. Sally Forth*

    #1 I made an offhand verbal comment a couple of times about how some people really show their age by coughing into the air or their hand instead of their elbow.Not in the moment so it didn’t seem directed. Someone else agreed. That’s all it took.

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