my partner is angry about how I handled harassment, venting to employees about managers above them, and more

by Alison Green on January 24, 2025

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My partner is angry about how I handled harassment at work

Content warning for domestic violence.

I’m a woman in finance. Six months ago, I was put into a team with an older male colleague who from day one decided to call me “Legs.” When someone challenged him, he said, “Well, look, she’s got legs up to here!” He gets too close, stares at my boobs, and one time walked past me while I was at my desk and, rather than squeezing my shoulder in passing, he put his hand effectively on the side of my boob and as he walked off his hand brushed off me. Word got back to the directors, he was told off for his behavior, he tried to apologize to me on a work night out, and I told him, “It’s not just what you do, but after you leave the room I become the butt of the joke for the next hour and it’s all totally humiliating.” It all then stopped.

Whilst all the harassment stopped after that, he has been difficult to work with because he’s lazy and non-compliant and I have to tidy up all his messes. I’m leaving this job because I have a promotion with a new firm. Since my exit interview, this collegue and I have butted heads on a project and I’ve gone home and vented to my partner.

Somehow, all the past sexual harrassment stuff came up and my partner got really, really furious with me for not previously reporting this colleague or doing anything to get this “predator” out of work. He shouted at me and gave me ultimatums of “you’ve got until your last day, otherwise I’ll be contacting the director.” He was so cross he shoved me at one point and said, “You’re a POS, not an advocate for women at all. It’s embarrassing a man has to stick up for women’s rights.” He berated me for making excuses for enabling this colleague. He is a domestic abuse survivor, but I plainly told him this is my situation and my work, and he’s being controlling and overstepping. My partner strongly believes he has a right to advocate for the next woman who’s going to step into my role.

How do I handle this? I’m very close to ending my relationship.

I’m so sorry — this awful and unfair in a number of different ways.

Would you consider calling a domestic violence hotline? I’m so sorry to say it, but I don’t think you can safely stay in this relationship. The verbal abuse and belittling on their own are a reason to leave; the shoving takes it far, far past that line.

None of the rest of my answer matters as much as that, but to address the other issues: your partner isn’t “sticking up for women’s rights.” Trying to overrule a woman’s autonomy in deciding how to handle a professional situation that affects her is not being an ally to women at all. If he wants to advocate for women, he needs to start by respecting their autonomy and their judgment. If he simply can’t live with how you’ve decided to handle your own work situation, his options are to try to change your perspective respectfully or to leave — not to try to bully you into doing what he wants.

2. Should a top executive be venting to employees about managers above them?

My coworker Michael was lateral to me and on my team when I joined about seven years ago. However, in the years since, our CEO has taken a strong liking to him and he has risen through the ranks, to the point where he is now essentially the CEO’s second-in-command in charge of daily operations.

Michael does not manage our team, but he is still quite close with many of us and often hangs out with us socially at team lunches and happy hours. Sometimes during these gatherings, he will “vent” to us, often about people or teams far above us — complaining, for example, that VP Jane never shows up to meetings or that X Product Team takes forever to get anything done. He once ranted about how our team’s manager never checks her messages and how various processes she’s implemented make no sense. These are all things that I agree with. They impact my daily workflow, in a way I don’t think they impact his, and hugely frustrate me as well. But I’m finding myself getting annoyed when Michael complains about them, because I don’t have the power to change any of these things as a rank-and-file employee — but he does! He has hiring, firing, and disciplinary power, he’s in high-level meetings, and he could actually do something about these problems!

I know that some of these may well be battles that Michael has reasonably decided aren’t worth fighting. Still, is it reasonable to think that Michael is a bit insensitive for making these complaints to us?

Not only insensitive, but oddly oblivious to his own position of power and influence, as well as to how “here’s a problem I could try to fix but rather than dealing with it competently, I’m just going to complain” reflects on him. He’s basically advertising his own ineffectiveness.

And if he has correctly judged that these aren’t battles worth fighting, then he’s just demonstrating bad judgment in picking you as his audience to vent to. Besides being indiscreet, venting from higher-ups about other higher-ups is bad for people’s morale.

What would happen if you started replying, “Don’t you have the authority now to do something about that?”

3. Should I tell my boss about my PMDD?

I am four months into a new position in my company. I am past the training stage and am now handling my own accounts and assisting others. I have struggled with ADHD in the past, but have been able to manage it for the past few years with medication.

Here’s where the problem comes in: I was diagnosed with PMDD years ago and stopped taking the hormonal birth control that made me stop my period completely. This has caused the hormonal surges and drops that lead to PMDD and it’s beginning to cause issues at work. One super fun side effect of my PMDD is that it makes my ADHD medication essentially useless. A lot of people have been out of work this last week, and trying to handle the extra work while dealing with unmitigated ADHD and terrible mood swings has been a nightmare and I’ve admittedly been ineffective. My boss has scheduled calls to check in and while I’ve been open about feeling overwhelmed, I’m beginning to wonder if I should explain why. During a non-PMDD week, I feel I would’ve been able to handle the higher work load. I’m worried that this is going to leave a lasting impression. I’m beginning to wonder if it would be easier to just explain to my boss that my PMDD wreaked havoc on my ability to focus last week but that I am working with my doctor to find a solution. Is this too much to share? Would it be viewed as making excuses?

You don’t need to share that level of detail, and doing so risks opening you up to misunderstandings and biases about PMDD (and ADHD, for that matter). But as with any health issue, it’s enough to just stick to the parts that are pertinent to your boss. So for example: “I want to let you know that I’m having a medication issue that’s affecting my ability to concentrate. I’m working with my doctor to find a solution and I don’t expect it to continue long-term, but I wanted to let you know in case I don’t seem at 100% right now.”

Related:
should you tell your boss if you’re struggling with mental health issues?

4. How do I move back to a more junior job after covering while a coworker was on leave?

For over a year now, I have been covering the job of a colleague while she is on maternity leave. Her maternity leave is due to end soon and in my country she is entitled to her previous job back. I will either need to return to my previous (more junior) role in the organization or to look for a new job elsewhere.

How do I prepare to give her her job back without getting possessive or anxious that she will do a better job than I did? How do I navigate taking on a more junior role within the same team? I totally support the rights of working parents but am not sure how to navigate this transition emotionally and practically.

It’s hard when you feel like you’re moving backwards. But a better way to look at it is that your coworker’s leave can be something that helps you move forward: it gave you something really great to put on your resume, which you can now parlay into a similar position somewhere else. (Or potentially at your current organization if something opens up.) The time you spent covering her job built your skills and gives you evidence of those skills and capabilities, and that should make getting the next job easier.

Doing higher-level work can also help you do more junior roles at a higher level than you were doing them previously; you probably have a more nuanced understanding of the priorities, constraints, and politics of management above you and that broadened perspective can influence the way you approach your job now. You also might think about what you did and didn’t like about the work you were covering and use that to refine what you want next (as well as where your biggest challenges were, if those are areas you want to develop in).

Last, are there opportunities to bring the skills you’ve built in the last year back to your current team in a new way? If so, consider talking to your boss about places where those could be helpful.

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{ 389 comments }

{ 389 comments… read them below }

  1. Daria grace*

    #1 I’m sorry you have had to deal with mistreatment at both home and work. How you handled things at work was fine but even if you’d totally mishandled everything at work it is absolutely not okay for your partner to demean you, shove you or interfere in your professional relationships. While no doubt his trauma from his own domestic violence experiences is genuinely difficult, that does not give him any licence to be the domestic violence perpetrator he has become. I agree with Alison, it’s important that you talk to a professional about this as his behavior is extremely alarming. An plan to exit the relationship and your shared living & financial arrangements would be good to have even if you don’t act on it immediately

    1. D*

      OP1 – your partner’s reaction is waaay off and I think you know that, so I won’t belabor it any further. Having been through similar experiences I do find guys can be sooooo judgy about not reporting this stuff, but they have zero appreaciation of what its like to have to live with the fall out at work. I’m finding that an awful lot of the work of improving the workplace culture is being thrust on the same women who are wearing the brunt of the bad behaviours. I pushed back hard on that when my company went through an audit and uncovered all sorts of assaults, harrasment and bias throughout. I pushed for a ”see it & say something” campaign – i.e. instead of only reacting to incidents (and therefore putting the onus on women to take everything through formal reports), the men needed to pay far more attention and call out bad behaviour, ideally in the moment. It should be incumbent on everyone in the workplace to stand up for others. Otherwise, if you’re the only woman in the room and you’re the one continually being harrassed, you’re also then the only one who is always reporting it and then it seems like you’re the whiny one… which just makes it so much worse. Sadly, while guys agreed to what I was saying nothing actually changed. Not once did I ever see a guy tell another guy to knock it off when behaving badly. My effort was also… unhelpful… to my career.
      (And of course this logic applies in various permutations to other forms of discrimination, I have just worded this relevant to the situation described).

      1. Carrie*

        Thank you for your thoughtful answer. A lot of of guys just don’t get how reporting a predator isn’t an easy answer. Reminds me of a bartending job I had as a young adult; the bar owner was a creep who used to say inappropriate stuff and grope the young female staff, my male friends simply couldn’t understand why I didn’t go to the police! There weren’t many jobs around and I needed the money – I was fully replaceable as unskilled labor but nobody was going to fire the owner.

        1. JSPA*

          There’s also another gulf here.

          On one side: “hearing about it once in a blue moon and it sounding like the worst ever because you don’t ever experience it yourself at work” (many guys)

          On the other: “this is a level of harassment that happens, perhaps not everywhere and every day, but often; you pick how and when reporting is warranted” (a lot of people, largely women).

          I’m also left wondering (hypothesizing ahead of data) if he’d be as pseudo-protective of hypothetical other women, and as abusive towards the person suffering the harassment, in any other circumstance than “someone older” doing it to “a woman who is supposed to be mine.” With or without additional vibes of the hackneyed trope, “if you didn’t report it, did you maybe secretly like it.”

          But the combination of clueless, entitled and controlling (whatever the basis) indeed seems high- level disquieting, whatever the underlying patterns and motivations.

          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            “He is a domestic abuse survivor, but…”
            It’s not about OP at all. He was triggered and is reacting to his own history.

            1. different seudonym*

              I would like that to be true, but I have to agree that he’s asserting ownership rights over her here, and hence is also perpetrating abuse.
              It’s very possible to react to one’s triggers for violence and emotional abuse, while also experiencing challenges to one’s masculine prerogatives as if they were also violence and emotional abuse. In other words, “everything that threatens my ego” gets redefined as a trigger, a distortion that will tend to culminate in acts of abuse. (Ask me how I know).

              1. PlainJane*

                I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive. He’s definitely being abusive and the sympathy is with OP here–his behavior is unconscionable. But on another level, it’s not about OP in the sense that he would be doing the same thing to anyone. He both is and has the problem here and he needs to deal with it. OP is not responsible for it, which is how I’d hear “not about…” Nothing OP did or failed to do caused this. This is a him problem.

                But boy, have we heard about a lot of so-called allies who are using their “feminism” to shield themselves from criticism. This is up there with “I’ll protect women… whether they like it or not.”

            2. Ilima*

              It absolutely is about the OP, because he is actively abusing her. Abusers often claim to be victims of abuse, as they can use it to excuse and cover their behavior. But whether he is or not is actually irrelevant; he’s abusing his partner NOW.

            5. merida*

              Probably true, but the reasons doesn’t excuse it. It’s entirely possible to understand with compassion the reasons why someone behaves badly AND also draw hard boundaries and not tolerate the bad behavior. Compassion and boundaries are not mutually exclusive. I wish I had learned that earlier.

            6. trh*

              it is certainly about OP, as she was the one shoved and verbally abused! It’s one thing to be a survivor, and his choice on how to deal with the trauma, but she also has a choice here to not be treated this way.

              Many people survive abuse, and many go on to perpetrate the same abuse, without therapy and insight. It is an explanation for the behaviour, yes, but never an excuse.

              Sometimes it feels like women can’t win at all. She handled it the best way she could in the moment. It is not easy to handle this stuff in the moment. Fight, flight, freeze or fawn…. Easy to judge if one isn’t in it. Very hard to overcome fear and adrenaline during events like these.

              Letter writer #1, I wish only the best for you. How hard this must be!

        2. bripops*

          A lot of the time, the people (of all genders!) who tell someone to go to the police over something like that don’t realize that in most cases the police aren’t going to do anything until the perpetrator does something conclusively violent. They usually mean well—to them it’s a horrible thing, so they think the police MUST be able to handle it—so it’s hard for them to fathom that reporting it won’t accomplish anything but opening you up to retaliation. When you try to explain that they’ll say “but that’s illegal!” and it’s like yeah, it is, but the kind of person willing to grope their employees isn’t usually worried about what’s legal and while they’re getting away with it, you’re out of a job.

          1. not nice, don't care*

            Organizational injustice is real. It sucks to work someplace that publicly trumpets their commitment to the usual happy-talk, then witness and experience all manner of legal and ethical violations, and then be tagged as a trouble-maker for expecting the official process for reporting/dealing with issues.

          2. trh*

            They do mean well, and don’t know how else to help, I think. That is the crux of it: people do not know how to make things better. If they are your friends, you could tell them what you need…. it’s very complicated.

        3. ferrina*

          A therapist told me: “The best way to handle a dangerous situation is to survive.”

          When you’re in a situation like this, whatever you do to get you out of the situation safely is a right thing. It’s so easy to say “you should have done X” when you are sitting at a safe distance and have no consequences attached, but in the moment, feeling the shock and the risk and surrealness of it all, you do what you can. And most of that “you should have” statements are built on a false narrative- yes, ideally you would report sexual harassment and there would be no consequences, but realistically that’s often not what happens. Reporters face consequences far more often than we’d like to admit. OP knew the situation better than anyone- she knew the likelihood of different consequences. She knew what she was capable of, and she did what she could given the situation she was in. She got out safely, and that means OP did the right thing.
          (and in case anyone was wondering- doing the storybook-worthy or so-called “right” thing can make the situation more dangerous for the victim. Every situation is different. Trust your gut.)

          1. Jaydee*

            Just wanted to note that I love your phrasing “whatever you do to get you out of the situation safely is *a* right thing.” I get tired of people thinking there is one best, ideal, right answer to every situation and all other choices are bad, wrong choices. Usually there are various options, some better than others, but several can be “right” depending on the person’s preferences and priorities.

          2. D*

            I really appreciate the way you phrased everything here. I’ve been deep in my feels today, and hearing all of this really hit home. I’m not crying, though; that’s just the onions.

          3. IT Manager*

            This is wonderful phrasing from your therapist, I appreciate having this handy for many, many discussions about what victims “should” do.

      2. Jeff Vader*

        Absolutely we guys need to call out the sexist behaviour as and when it happens. Report it as well – otherwise the creeps get a chance to get their version of the story across.

        It’s easy to say ‘not all men’ are not like this, so why not prove it ?

        1. Three Flowers*

          But a guy who berates his partner for not being as confrontational as he wants is *not* an ally.

      3. Malarkey01*

        I just want to add that women have been navigating issues of harassment, and sexual/gendered based violence, for our entire lives. WE are the best judges of how to balance our literal safety, ability to operate in the world, and judge situations occurring to us. It’s beyond insulting for someone who has not had to live, internalize, and normalize this daily behavior to suddenly criticize your handling of a horrible situation. He is so so wrong and please don’t question yourself.

      4. Marshmallow*

        I totally agree. I’m amazed at how men don’t realize how damaging it can be to report… even in a company that claims to be supportive of diversity. I’ve gotten “you need to report that because they shouldn’t be allowed to do that” and while I agree they shouldn’t… they certainly are allowed to do that. There won’t be any consequences (especially with the sneakier stuff) and the guy and others around will know and the risk of retaliation is so high.

        I’ve been in a male dominated industry for more than 15 years. I’ve been involved in 4 HR complaints about treatment of me and other women. Only two of the four were something i reported myself. One of the others was someone reporting on my behalf because they witnessed something (I asked them not to report it, but they were a supervisor so they felt they had to). The other was more of a “character witness” sort of situation.

        All 4 of those led to my life being harder because of the reporting and the perpetrators had no actual consequences other than a stern talking to but I still had to work with them and the rest of their “boys club”. If you think that people that talk to or treat women that way will just magically treat them correctly after a stern talking to, you are sorely mistaken. They will often get sneakier about it, but it’s still there. So yeah, that’s why we don’t report.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          Yeah I think in principle everyone agrees that wrongdoers need to be reported. However, someone cooking the books is vastly different from someone be sexually harassed. The book-cooker is harming the company’s profit, and profit is not a person. The sexual harasser is harming a woman rather than sacro-sanct profit, and it’s so easy to point at the woman and say, maybe she was giving him the come-on somehow. In a me-too era poll, 25% of French men said a woman wearing a mini-skirt was asking for it. So in practice, it just doesn’t work out, a way is found to blame the victim.
          I’m sorry for what you went through!

          1. CeeDoo*

            I hope someone showed those men the “what I was wearing” installations. A predator is going to find prey and abuse them, regardless of what they wear. Our system (the one where mostly men are in charge) is set up to favor the man. Yes, women also harass and abuse. But men commit the majority of these offenses. Then other men say “what proof do you have?”

          2. not nice, don't care*

            Book-cookers often support other wrongdoers though, and contribute to a culture of accepting bad behavior.

        2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          Too often women go from having one problem (the harassment / assault they’re reporting) to having several problems after reporting.

          1. Arts Akimbo*

            So true. Like Jason Mendoza hucking a Molotov cocktail, boom, right away you have a different problem.

        3. 2Bornot2B*

          I, too, am in a male-dominated industry. Our workplaces have a “no bullying and harassment” policy. A couple of times, when I did report unwanted behaviour, my supervisor laughed it off and did nothing. Weeks later, I was overheard by this supervisor talking about the incident with someone else, and the super said, “why is this the first time I’m hearing about it?” “I DID tell you,” I replied, “and you laughed.” Hooee they walked away quite quickly.

          Now I just call it out in the moment as loudly as I possibly can, but it’s still really hard. One job, the client was really rude to me, so I just went elsewhere, but later when I complained about it to my supervisor, and pointed out that I was the only woman there, and the only one he was rude to, my supervisor said, “Why do you assume it’s because you are a woman?”

          Wow. The implications in that question are staggering.

        4. Jellyfish Catcher*

          As I’ve tell my good, well-meaning male friends: We Don’t Live in the same world that you live in.
          A dark parking garage is not the same garage for us as for you.
          That a colleague or boss would stealthily run a finger across your buttocks- or other places- is not a worry for you.
          You don’t have to manage suggestions of after work “get togethers.”
          You don’t expect to get ignored or talked over in a staff meeting.
          Believe us when we tell this stuff.
          Thanks for reading this.

        5. Education Mic*

          I get why a supervisor would feel compelled to report bad behavior. I think that’s correct and admirable. What I DON’T get is why they would somehow feel they absolutely had to attach your name to it?? This is just one more weird form of aggression. I will control your narrative, I will decide what others know and think about you…

      5. learnedthehardway*

        Well said!!

        To add – not only did the OP have to deal with the actual perpetrator, but her colleagues were a HUGE part of the problem. Instead of being allies, they mocked the OP for being assaulted / harassed by the creep coworker!!!

        I mean, I’m beyond disgusted with them, but it’s also a good indication that the company culture does not care about the treatment of female employees.

        As for your partner, OP – I would get out before things get worse. He doesn’t respect women, either.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Seriously! What bowels of hell did this workplace spawn from where calling a female coworker “legs” gets the coworker mocked instead of the harasser perp-walked out the door with their last paycheck the first time it happens?

          1. merida*

            For real!! I was shocked to see that management found out about at least one incident and… he still worked there. What.

          2. merida*

            Also, sadly I’m realizing that even if the boyfriend were to tell the boss about the harasser, it wouldn’t make that situation any better for the next employee. Sounds like management knows, doesn’t care. Sure, they might not fully understand the extent of the pervy-ness, but if management doesn’t take the “we saw him touch an employees boob” account from witnesses seriously (!) – along with the likely common knowledge that that man is a creep since it doesn’t sound like he tries to hide it from anyone in the office so management likely already knew about issues before the boob incident – I don’t know why a boyfriend calling to complain would make a difference either. We know boyfriend is not treating OP right here, but neither is management!! So many parts of this letter is infuriating to me on OP’s behalf. I hope the company is a million times better for her. This company set a low, low bar. I am enraged for her.

      6. Baunilha*

        I’ve seen so, so many cases where women reported harassment or abuse and ended up suffering consequences far worse then the men who harassed them. (If the men had any at all)
        OP, I believe you know your partner is in the wrong, but I’m gonna say it just in case: it’s never okay to belittle, offend, or shove (!) someone. It’s even worse to do those things to a person in a moment of vulnerability who confided in you. To humiliate and give you an ultimatum that has nothing to do with them? I have no words.
        Your partner is showing you he is going to perpetrate the pattern of abuse he himself survived. It’s not gonna get better, it’s gonna get worse. Please get out.

        1. JSPA*

          I don’t think we’re even saying that he can’t get help, and get better, if he takes seriously that what he did piled abuse on harassment. But… quite probably that won’t happen without the strong consequence of being left for it. And quite possibly can’t happen within the context of an ongoing relationship. “Hearing about low level workplace harassment” isn’t some rare trigger that he can expect to avoid for life; he needs to get a handle on his response, regardless of anything else.

          Plus even if he was triggered, he didn’t stay triggered from then on to infinity? I don’t see where he owned it, apologized, promised to learn and train himself to do better, and took concrete steps to get help.

    2. Justcuz*

      Poor LW. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. I live in a conservative, blue collar area, so I have seen this soooo many times. Its hard to see what is normal through all the smoke of gaslighting and abuse. I hope LW can get out, and I hope having it pointed out to her allows the thoughts to at least seed for now if nothing else.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        In case you also need it, if you are in the U.S. you should be able to dial 211 for local resources.

    3. Lemons*

      Oh OP, you do not deserve to be berated or shoved, ever! I agree with Alison that that behavior is way past ‘being cross,’ that is domestic abuse.

      As for how you handled the work creep, BRAVO! It would never occur to me to point out that they are embarrassing themselves and everyone can see it, but I can’t think of a much more perfect way to get harassment to stop. Well done.

    4. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

      I just wanted to add to the voices of others telling you to leave. This is verbal and physical absue. It will repeat and escalate.
      He’s not advocating for women – he’s being a controlling pr!ck. That will get worse too.
      I hope you find someplace safe and more loving.

      1. London Calling*

        Not least because not only does he feel he needs to take charge of LW’s situation and deal with it, but also he thinks he needs to do that for the next woman who’d step into LW’s role.
        Abusive, controlling AND main character syndrome – because this is all about him and his feelings, isn’t it? (insert eyeroll emoji here).

      2. Rainy*

        Generally speaking one of the reasons that someone interfering in your employment is such a red flag is that if they can destroy your reputation and make you unemployable, you won’t be able to make enough money to escape the relationship.

        Just sayin’.

    6. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Just chiming in as another person saying:
      1. how you handled the work situation is totally fine. There are different paths someone could choose to take and what makes sense is heavily dependent on the specific situation. Ultimately, as the person suffering the harassment, you have the right to decide what you do (and don’t) want to do.
      2. Your partner is being a jerk and his behaviour is abusive. I’m glad you recognize that it’s not OK. As above, as the person being harmed, you have the right to decide your own path forward. Please do think about whether this relationship is safe for you – emotionally, psychologically, and physically – when you decide whether to stay in this relationship.

      As a side note, his plan by itself makes no sense. It sounds like the Director already knows about the harassment. I guess his intention is to try to push the Director into meting out some real consequences, but I can’t imagine the partner of a former employee will have any influence over disciplinary decisions.

    7. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      Yeah, if you’re not gonna leave already, it’s a good time to start preparing in case you have to. Get some advice, think through your options. Maybe he’ll step up and come to a realisation that he needs to change, but that’s a relatively rare outcome from this point, so best not count on it.

      Condolences, LW1. What a disappointment.

    8. Beth*

      All of this! OP, it’s ironic that your partner is blaming his abusive behavior on how you handled handling someone else’s abusive behavior ‘correctly’. He’s shouting at you, threatening to interfere with your career, shoving you, berating you, ordering you around–those aren’t acceptable behaviors.

      You handled your work situation fine. You had room to be more direct in confronting it, but you didn’t have an obligation to handle it in any way but what worked best for you. And your approach actually worked–the behavior was stopped.

      Your partner is dead wrong that it’s somehow women’s jobs to handle men’s sexual violence. It’s not. It’s men’s jobs not to harass or be violent to women in the first place. And when it does happen, other men handling it is the opposite of embarrassing! In my opinion, that’s actually how it should be, and it’s embarrassing that more of them don’t step in when they see it happening. (This doesn’t apply to your partner threatening to contact your director. That’s not him stepping in to handle another man who he witnessed behaving badly–it’s him trying to control your behavior on a situation you already have under control.)

      As for what to do about your partner situation…he’s not leaving you a lot of room to do anything other than end the relationship. In your shoes, I’d be hesitant to stay even if he did a total 180–is this how he’s going to react every time he doesn’t agree with your approach to something?

    9. DidIRollMyEyesOutLoud*

      I hope OP will look up the Power and Control Wheel of domestic violence from the Duluth Model. It can be very helpful in helping a victim recognize unhealthy power dynamics in partners, especially since not all abuse is physically violent. A quick google search will bring it up instantly.

  2. Not your typical admin*

    LW 1 – I’m so sorry you’re faced that situation at work, am so happy you’ve found a new job. I just have to say, your partner is totally wrong. This is a situation where they should be mad FOR you, not AT you. Their role should be to listen, and support you as you make decisions in how to handle a situation. Belittling you, calling you names, and shoving you is beyond wrong. I highly encourage you to get somewhere safe, and surround yourself with people who support you.

    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      Agree with this – OP1, it is not on you to mitigate your partner’s past trauma by reacting to workplace harassment in the only way that they deem appropriate. I’m glad you’re leaving your job, and I hope you can get support to safely leave your partner too.

    2. HonorBox*

      This is where I landed. It is one thing to be upset about a situation on someone’s behalf. Even then, when I’ve found myself being upset on someone’s behalf about a situation, it is important to check yourself when the other person is not comfortable with your reaction.

      LW, I would add to the encouragement to end this relationship. Find the safety and support you need from family, friends, etc. I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this.

      1. ferrina*

        Partner: “You aren’t an advocate for women like I am!” [shoves OP]

        OP, I hope you can see the disconnect.
        I understand that your partner has trauma. I’m abuse survivor- I have trauma from it. There was a time in my life when my anger was a real issue. The things I got angry about were real problems, but I would get angry at the wrong person, to the wrong degree and in the wrong way. I had to work on it for years– over a decade. It is hard work, and the person needs to want to change. The whole time, your subconcious will be fighting you. Abuse survivors often repeat the cycle- either as victim or perpetrator. That’s because our brains gravitate toward what’s familiar, and if the most familiar thing is abuse, that’s what feels comfortable. Safe, healthy relationships can actually feel uncomfortable, because they are unfamiliar (note- unsafe, unhealthy relationships also feel uncomfortable, because that’s a normal reaction to an unsafe unhealthy relationship. If you are recovering from over-familiarity with abuse, you need to be very reflective of where your discomfort is coming from- is it from trying something new and healthy, or is it your body telling you that something is wrong? This can be a really, really hard question.)
        Unfortunately, OP’s partner is comfortable directing his anger at her. He’s comfortable putting his hands on her in anger. That shouldn’t be something that OP should ever be comfortable with. Please leave, OP, before this feels normal to you.

        1. Banana Pyjamas*

          I just want to highlight that healthy situations can feel wrong after abusive situations. It can be really difficult to learn and adjust to new, healthy patterns.

        2. merida*

          Yes. So many important things here. I wish I could shout all this from the rooftops so anyone needing to hear it could.

    3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      this is such wonderful framing:

      They should be mad FOR you, not mad AT you.

      Explains the difference between support and abuse perfectly.

    4. Momma Bear*

      I think LW needs to leave. He may be triggered by this as a DV survivor, but that doesn’t mean LW now gets to be his punching bag – literally. LW knows that his putting hands on her is wrong. Please go somewhere safe. The work situation was not your fault, and neither is what your partner is doing. He needs therapy, and LW needs peace.

      2. Working under my down comforter*

        Agreed, OP. Please make an escape plan. Does he know when your last day is? Are you able to tell him a different date so you can leave earlier?

        1. Jellyfish Catcher*

          You need to get out. The abuse will only continue, as your current partner is dealing with his trauma by replicating it to you. Don’t waste years with this crap.

          Keep your significant finances separate; keep your plans unmentioned. Move your important items, such as documents, to a trusted friend or relative. In the meantime, get some therapy if you can.
          You can do this – and it’s worth it.

    6. not nice, don't care*

      My partner is put into actual bodily harm by her managers, actively and due to neglect. She is working through every channel she can to report and correct the situation, but it is incredibly hard for me to witness (esp as a survivor of violence myself). Yes I get mad, but I also understand that it is not my battle to fight. I’m support staff.

  3. No Flying Monkeys*

    LW 1 – it’s hard to know without more context but there’s something about his reaction that screams possessiveness to me, like someone else had sexual access to you (by sexually harassing you) and that interferes with his sense that he has sole entitlement to you. If that is the the case, it’s a huge red flag (along with everything else you describe about his behaviour which is basically just a list of red flags). Unfortunately some domestic abuse survivors, especially men, find themselves repeating the behaviours that were imposed on them as victims. This is very sad but it doesn’t excuse their violence. It’s also not something that you can do anything about. What you can do something about is protecting yourself, by getting to safety.

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      This was my thought too. Like how dare you “let” someone touch/sexualize you as if it’s something she can control.

      It’s unfortunately a thing that abusive men sometimes adopt the language/trappings of feminism (or therapy, etc) to present themselves publicly as an ally and/or gaslight the women they’re mistreating.

      I really hope you’re safe, LW.

      1. RC*

        Yes, this. Possessiveness and dehumanizing, not allyship at all. You are an adult who is allowed to make your own decisions on how you want to deal with work issues. You don’t have to tolerate that behavior at all, and please be safe (there’s a lot of good info in other comments).

      2. bamcheeks*

        I keep seeing the edges of the manosphere shite on social media and have been thinking a lot about how many men believe the difference between a Good Man and a Bad Man is where and how they target their aggression and violence. You see it in right wing spaces where Good Men define themselves as protectors, and in left wing spaces where Good Men think that as long as they are “punching up” against oppression then that’s a positive outlet for violence and aggression. I think it’s absolutely the same dynamic in both cases, and it’s just as toxic.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          And with both groups, all it takes is for somebody they believe they are “protecting” to indicate they don’t want or need their protection for them to turn on the “victim,” as we’ve seen with LW1.

          It’s possible this is genuinely about him wanting to “protect” the LW, rather than anger somebody else touched her/looked at her. If he was in a situation where his mother was also abused, then he may have wished he could have done more to help her or he may be angry with her for not protecting him and may be trying to “fix things” by punishing this abuser in a way he couldn’t punish his, but…the thing is that’s still making it all about him. Whether it’s about his need to feel he is protecting others from what happened to him or about him being angry anybody else looked at his woman or about him wanting some kind of revenge that he couldn’t get on his own abuser, in any case, he’s trying to impose his needs on the LW.

          And he is doing so in an extremely manipulative and abusive way.

          LW1, I think you are right to be considering leaving him and I really think that is what you need to do.

          1. Great Frogs of Literature*

            This line also stuck out to me, even aside from the more alarming stuff:

            It’s embarrassing a man has to stick up for women’s rights.

            That… is not a statement from someone who has ANY understanding of how allyship works. It reads to me like he thinks it’s your job, as a woman, to handle any unpleasantness that might happen to you as a result of being a woman in this world, and you’re like… not holding up your side because you can’t deal with it all (to be clear, I think you’re dealing with it, but he sees not reporting as not dealing with it) and thus he has to inconvenience himself to pay attention to the fact that you’re being harassed.

            I know we’re missing a lot of context about this relationship, but honestly, I’m on team “Break up with this guy” on the strength of that statement alone. Even if this wasn’t about gendered harassment — a problem that men who aren’t active perpetrators are frequently complicit in — someone who in any way thinks “It’s embarrassing that I need to support you” is not someone you need to build any kind of life with.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              Very true. I’m sorry, I know he is many other things as well, but he is also someone who thinks that a) it’s embarrassing to have to support you and b) that berating, demeaning, shaming and *putting his hands on you* counts as supporting you.

              Even if you aren’t ready to leave yet, please look at your options and remember that no matter what he says, you have autonomy. (It also sounds like you did a great job navigating an awful situation; you don’t owe the company, your partner, or “womankind” anything.)

          2. Hannah Lee*

            And with both groups, all it takes is for somebody they believe they are “protecting” to indicate they don’t want or need their protection for them to turn on the “victim,” as we’ve seen with LW1.

            It’s a variation of what happens with “nice” or “helpful” drivers.
            If you’re stopped on a side street/lot exit waiting to enter a main road, or on a main road waiting to take a left turn, sometimes a “nice” or “helpful” driver will stop and wave you forward, “allowing” you to proceed even though you don’t have the right of way.
            And those “nice” drivers IME often go from zero to 100% banana-pants expletive spewing angry in 2 seconds when you politely wave them off and don’t proceed. For example, some in 1 lane gesturing for you to take a left turn across 3 lanes of traffic, when there other vehicles moving the other 2 lanes (why no, random stranger, thank you for your kind offer, but I’m not willing to risk being broadsided ALL the other drivers on the road.)

            It is not about “being helpful” or “protecting” it is about control, ego and self-righteousness.

        2. Iceless*

          This is one man behaving poorly, can we not generalize it out like this? Men who shove their partner like this is a very small group of men.

          1. Momma Bear*

            Let’s not make excuses. If this was a small problem we would not have shelters or hotlines.

            1. Iceless*

              I am just asking people to be a little bit more considerate as men are a very large group that are mostly good people and I do think this comment section has some blind spots regarding stereotyping them. I am sure I also have a lot of blind spots.

              2. London Calling*

                This is not about ‘most men,’ this is about THIS man. But as usual, ‘NAMALT’ rears it’s head to derail the conversation.

          3. Anon for This*

            You can’t negate someone’s lived experience by slogans. “Not all men” does not negate the fact that it is men and they don’t come with accurate labels on their foreheads as to who is dangerous. For 2022, among the U.S. women murdered by men, “Nearly nine out of 10 victims (87.5 percent) knew their offenders. Of the victims who knew their offenders, 58.1 percent were wives or other intimate acquaintances of their killers.”–Violence Policy Center. The most dangerous person that a woman can encounter is at home and it is a man. I hope that OP#1 can get out safely.

          4. wordswords*

            Agreed.

            There are times and places for talking about overarching statistics and trends and the ways in which patriarchal systems shape them, but I don’t think giving advice to OP1 on her specific, individual boyfriend is one.

          5. Lenora Rose*

            Talking about attitudes in the manosphere is not talking about men. The manosphere is a specific kind of dynamic perpetrated by male influencers who want to have the last word on how men ought to behave, and denigrate all men who don’t behave like that as lesser – attitudes many men don’t subscribe to and don’t want to subscribe to.

            And it’s worth nothing that while its most obviously sexist and toxic elements come from the right wing dudes like Tate, there is a left wing side of the manosphere that’s almost as bad, but more subtle.

            So please don’t “Not all men” – ever, ideally, but especially not on a comment that wasn’t about all men in the first place.

          6. Cake or Death*

            “Men who shove their partner like this is a very small group of men.”

            Statistics would disagree with you.

        3. not nice, don't care*

          Why can’t dudes with this kind of compulsion work on being supportive? Like, reframe the drive to impose violence in the name of ‘protecting women’ to supporting women by, idk, asking how we want to be supported.
          Such a failure of ‘manly duty’.

      3. BatManDan*

        Good catch. I saw the irony, but I didn’t catch it as intentional and /or gaslighting. You’re most likely right in this case, which is sad.

      4. Box of Kittens*

        Exhibit A: Justin Baldoni with his Man Enough podcast and book while sexually harassing actors on a movie set.

        1. Pierrot*

          LW1, I am so sorry that you experienced harassment at work and that your partner was aggressive and angry with you. His response was completed uncalled for, and I think your decision not to report the harasser makes sense in light of the fact that you’re leaving and the larger dynamics women have to deal with when workplace harassment occurs.

          I had an incident in a past relationship that reminds me a bit of what you’re describing. My ex partner was demanding at the time that I provide the address and full name of someone who had assaulted me so that he could confront him. When I said no, my ex said that the assault impacted him too and affected the relationship and therefore he’s entitled to handle it however he wants. For the record, I refused, and it made dealing with a traumatizing experience even worse. Our relationship ended because of this, and the ex has since apologized, but the whole situation impacted me for several years. I felt very powerless, and at a time when I should have been able to focus on healing, I instead felt like I had to try to placate an enraged, controlling man.

          In hindsight, it was a very controlling relationship, and usually that kind of behavior shows up in multiple areas, even at the best of times.

    2. Metal Gru*

      Yes, I came here to write this (and then saw your comment). I feel strongly that the “not a good advocate for women” is a smoke screen and the real reason he’s so angry is because some dude looked at his partner (LW) like that.

    3. Worldwalker*

      Cycles repeat. People who abuse their children were nearly always abused as children. People do to others what was done to them. Which is why I chose not to have children.

      1. Anon for CA*

        Newer research doesn’t necessarily bear this out. It seems that *witnessing* abuse in the family and not being the primary target may sometimes lead to that reaction, but it does not seem to be as clear-cut as “abused end up as abusers”. Will check later if I can find that study and link it.
        Your decision is your own, Worldwalker, and having made a similar one I certainly understand where you are coming from. I just don’t think we are eternally tainted somehow or inevitably cursed to be exactly like our parents.
        I hope the pain eases for you.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          My understanding from my therapist is that people can choose to not be like their parents. We are wired to repeat the behavior we experienced growing up, but we can choose not to do that and it can work if we go to therapy, and do whatever else is needed to achieve it.
          When I was younger, I had abusive impulses to behave like my father. I kept working on that until it went away. I ended up not having children because I didn’t particularly care whether I did or not. My sibling also didn’t, so my fathers line ends here. NBD.

            1. DJ Abbott*

              No, it’s not. No matter what’s going on, people can improve if they make an effort. Please don’t project on me.

            2. merida*

              Yeah, not ableist. If you’re an adult, how you behave and how you live your life actually is a choice you have. You’re not destined to live out what happened to you in childhood. It’s hard work for sure (I know from experience) but not impossible by any means. Look up “growth mindset.”

              I had a good friend in my mid-20s who was very self-aware of the bad behavior she picked up from her traumatic childhood. She would have a completely unprovoked fit of rage at me and before I could even say anything in response she’d say “You can’t blame me for anything I just said because I had a bad childhood, this is how I grew up.” She was so overt about it; it was startling. Yeah……. we’re no longer friends because of that. I was her only friend at the time too. She had gotten fired from multiple jobs because of her completely uncontrolled, unapologetic rage. But she believed therapy was “for the weak” (despite me telling her I was in therapy) so she never tried it and believed she couldn’t change. I wished her all the best and hope she’s doing well, but… with that mindset, unless she’s changed, I’m very confident she’s not doing well at all.

              1. Hroethvitnir*

                Oh, I know I should not reply to this, but the idea you can “choose” not to have emotional dysregulation that hurts others is like saying you can “choose” not to be an addict.

                A grain of truth that may be a useful perspective for some, but writ large is just more of the same bootstraps rubbish we’ve all heard.

                My upbringing was very psychologically abusive and intermittently physically violent. As an adult, I am the last person anyone who knows me would think would be abusive. I have strong caring instincts, I am very gentle and loving with children and animals, and can have a huge amount of patience for animals I am working with. I wish I could foster children. I also know for a fact that under the level of strain kids put you under, I am not, and may never be, healthy enough to be safe for them.

                The psychologist *I* saw when getting a hysterectomy (both the surgeon and psychologist apologised for the gatekeeping, but I understand covering your arse, honestly) said he appreciated that I have that level of understanding of myself, and that there are probably a lot of people in a similar place.

                I was taken to therapy from a very young age, so understanding myself is really not something I struggle with, haha. Cutting out the constant analysing is more the issue.

                1. merida*

                  We can’t choose if we’re dysregulated but we can choose if we seek help so that we don’t continue to hurt others. I don’t think I’ve ever felt regulated in my life but it is still on me to go to therapy so I don’t continue hurting people the way that my parents unapologetically hurt me. It’s a process, and an imperfect one, and I will make mistakes along the way. But I can’t use it as an excuse to hurt people, just like OP’s boyfriend shouldn’t either. The orginal comment I was responding to said it was ableist to expect people to take responsibility for their actions if they have trauma, and that’s what I disagreed with.

                  I’m sorry for what you went through. <3

                2. DJ Abbott*

                  You illustrate my point. You have not achieved perfection, but you are much better than you would have been if you made no effort.
                  If everyone could understand whether or not they would be good parents before having children, this world would be so much better!

                3. Anon for CA*

                  Can’t further nest this, but fully agreed with the above two commenters.
                  @Hroethvitnir, true enough, emotional dysregulation can happen at truly inopportune times. That in and of itself is not issue. I still have issues with sudden intense irritability for example.
                  I was still on me, no matter how unfair it seems at times (thanks merida), to develop skills to deal with that productively instead of assuming I have carte blanche to behave however I feel like. Because the latter would truly mean being like my parents and I don’t see why I should cede that ground to them.
                  It seems though that you have a good grasp on this considering how you describe yourself. I hope you can find a good balance, especially if the over-analysing of every little thing hinders more than it helps.

          2. merida*

            Yes, yes! Way to go on doing the hard work to unlearn the habits from your family. It’s not fair that some of us have to spend years of work in therapy to unlearn all the yuck that we experienced through no fault of our own, but here we are, and you did it.

        2. Anon for CA*

          I couldn’t find the exact study, but the author Laura S. Brown talks a bit about that in her book* “Your turn for care: Surviving the aging and death of the adults who harmed you” in the chapter “The diminished capacity defense”. The following site has a short description and links to her resource section:
          https://www.drlaurabrown.com/written/your-turn-for-care/

          Suffice to say, that while I’m not gonna deny that trauma changes us, healing can do the same. We are not doomed forever to remain unchanged and beyond help and in the current climate I will try to do my best to keep that in mind.

          *Basically all the trigger warnings, Brown tackles some very heavy stuff in her work with tons of kindness and compassion and real, actionable advice.

          1. Frieda*

            I did not know something like this existed and I really appreciate the recommendation. The pull between “I am going to be a good daughter/mother/partner based on my own moral center and core values” and “People who harmed me are not entitled to my time or energy and I can and should set boundaries” is so real.

            1. Anon for CA*

              It really seems to be a very unusual book, even though one would expect to be more out there on the subject.
              As I’m now slowly approaching middle age myself, it has been an invaluable resource tbh.

      2. anon today*

        I second the repeating cycles.
        In my twenties, I understood that I was destined to repeat the abuse (felt the rage welling up at the slightetst provocation), and vowed to not have children to not hurt them.
        I used a Buddhist metaphor of repeating cycles to explain to myself I didn’t want to pass down violence through the generations.

        Peace.

      3. Redaktorin*

        This is both untrue according to newer research and unfairly stigmatizing to people who were abused. It really sucks to have people assume I’m a monster because of what I went through. It feels like being victimized twice/punished for something bad that happened to me.

        1. OxfordBlue*

          I agree that this belief is untrue and that it is a cruelty to survivors of abuse that was promulgated in the latter half of the twentieth century. I recall reading a letter published in The Guardian newspaper here in the UK several years ago which pointed out the fact that the majority of abusers were male while the majority of victims were female so this belief could not be true. I cannot now find this letter which is a great pity as it was very well expressed.

          I have a suspicion that some abusers claim to have been abused themselves as a justification or an excuse or to garner some sympathy during the legal process. I particularly noticed this during the recent trial of Dominique Pelicot and his co-defendants in France. Many of the men who had participated in the rapes of Madame Pelicot claimed to have been abused as children but none of them was reported as providing any corroborative evidence for these assaults and they all seemed to think that having been assaulted themselves meant that they could in their turn assault someone else.

          I will just finish by saying how grateful I am that worldwalker, anon today and Redaktorin commented here, your points of view are rarely heard in our society. Best wishes for the future.

        2. lazuli*

          I think it’s also a misunderstanding of the statistics. My understanding is that most abusers were abused, but that does not mean that most people who were abused are abusers. The vast vast majority of people who were abused do not go on to abuse other people. But people assume that the first part (“most abusers were abused”) somehow means the second part, but that’s not how math or statistics work.

      4. MassMatt*

        The cycle can repeat in many ways, quite often children of the abused, especially girls, pair with abusive partners in adulthood since the violence and abuse is normalized. It’s very sad.

      5. Stefanie*

        This is not true. It is a common and dangerous myth that stigmatizes abuse victims as potentially dangerous. People who were abused have a higher chance of *being abused again.* (abusers “feel like home” to them, etc.).

    4. MK*

      Or, he is projecting his own trauma on the situation (thinking that if someone had said something about his own abuser in the past, he wouldn’t have suffered as he did). Frankly, I don’t think it matters, that’s something he needs to address with a therapist. Whatever his motivation is, his behaviour is unacceptable.

      1. Spooz*

        I do think his intention matters because it would affect what the LW does next.

        For example, if he is trying to do for her what he wishes someone would have done for him, she can say something like, “I appreciate that you are trying to help me. I know this is coming from a place of concern and wanting to protect me and other women from abuse. However, I am asking you not to act on my behalf without my consent, and I do not want you to stir all this up again when I have moved on from it. If you are struggling with the idea of “doing nothing” then I really think you ought to see a therapist to examine your own feelings here and help work through what you experienced in the past. I hope you can see that women’s rights are everyone’s job but that what you’re doing right now is about your feelings rather than what I as a woman you love actually want. It is not acceptable for you to hurt me. Are you able to see that that is what you have done? I need you to support me here, not steamroller all over me and my feelings.”

        I’m on team “give the guy a chance” here, but also on team “LW knows him best”. Some guys might be a bit hot-headed but you could point this out to them and they would get the point and apologise and try to change. Some guys you couldn’t even imagine saying this to them as you know they’d hit the roof. I urge LW to imagine how she thinks having this kind of talk with him would go based on her gut instinct and make her decisions accordingly.

        1. Salsa Verde*

          Yikes, are you saying LW should say all this to someone who shoved her? That’s a lot of words to say: do you realize you just shoved me and called me a piece of shit?

          1. Spooz*

            No, I think the LW should ask herself if she would feel safe having a conversation with him about his needs vs her needs and chiefly his need for therapy, and use that gut feeling of what she thinks would happen to inform her actions.

            People online are very quick to go to DTMFA without really understanding what it’s like to be in that relationship and how “just dump him” feels as advice to someone who has chosen to partner up with someone, so advice to leave is often ignored because it’s so blunt that the LW leaps to defend their partner. I think it’s more helpful to cause the LW to reflect on the dynamics in their relationship than to just go all DTMFA.

            I also believe people can change and that counselling works. I think the LW is in a better position than internet strangers to judge whether her partner would benefit from counselling to change his patterns of behaviour or whether he’s just some dude who thinks it’s OK to hit women when they don’t perform to his expectations.

            Maybe she will realise what an abusive asshole he is and dump him, or maybe he will realise what an abusive asshole he is and resolve not to perpetuate patterns of abuse. Who knows! Only the LW knows what she wants to try, but she has a choice here and I don’t want to take her judgement and agency away from her.

          2. Spooz*

            To be clear, I experienced emotional abuse as a child. I went to a fuckton of therapy to make sure I didn’t perpetuate the cycle. I still find my mother’s words coming out of my mouth sometimes. But I want to change, I want to get better at parenting, I appreciate my husband pointing out when I sound just like my mother, I apologise and try earnestly to do better. I would say I am a pretty decent parent because I am so conscious of it.

            People can change, but they have to WANT to change. I anticipate the best case scenario for the LW being a trial separation with a review of it in however many months time being contingent on him attending individual therapy to understand his actions and develop better coping tools.

          3. Spooz*

            And I am glad that the first time I flipped out at him (anxiety response, total freakout that he was late and didn’t call me) my now-husband didn’t dump me but asked if I was OK and suggested it wasn’t normal to be that stressed about it and maybe I should see someone.

            1. Dahlia*

              The first time you “flipped out” at your husband, did you also physically abuse her?

              Your “I’m on team “give the guy a chance” here” statement seems to be breezing right past the physical abuse. How many instances of physical violence does it take to not get another chance?

            3. Glen*

              he physically assaulted her. It is literally not safe for her to be in this relationship regardless of why he felt able to cross the line into physical abuse, and doubly so with the gendered aspect.

    5. iglwif*

      That was the vibe I got, too.

      I could 100% OP’s partner being angry for her. I could even understand him asking why she didn’t report! This, though, is taking the harrassment she experienced at work as an attack on him and piling more abuse on top of it, which is neither understandable nor forgivable IMO.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        Asking is fine if it’s a genuine question, meaning he really wants to hear the answer, doesn’t assume he knows what it is ahead of time, and listens to what she says. “Why didn’t you…” can also be an statement or accusation disguised as a question. Not so helpful.

        2. iglwif*

          I was already waving red flags before that happened but yes that absolutely crosses an additional line!!!

    6. Lacey*

      Yes. I’ve seen a lot of guys respond like this.

      They almost (sometimes completely) view it as cheating that the woman they’re seeing was harrassed – especially if she doesn’t immediatly slap the guy like it’s a movie.

      1. different seudonym*

        It’s especially creepy once you clock that they’re not only possessive, they’re also resentful because they’ve been “following the rules” themselves ( not harassing and assaulting random women who happen to be within reach) and now someone else is easily “getting away with it.”

    7. aebhel*

      Yeah, exactly. And he has just enough self-awareness to realize that getting openly angrily jealous about his girlfriend getting sexually harassed is not going to play well, so he’s couching his anger in terms that feel more righteous – but fundamentally, he is not concerned about your safety or emotional well-being; he’s concerned about his property rights.

      And someone who has laid hands on you in anger once will almost definitely do it again, and worse. LW, get out now.

    8. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I understand how someone whose trauma included a loss of control would want to be in control. Because if you’re the one in control, nobody can inflict that trauma on you again. Obviously doesn’t make it OK.

  4. Oui oui oui all the way home*

    Wishing you peace and love LW 1. I’m so sorry for what you are experiencing from your partner. Hugs.

      1. NotBatman*

        Yes. It’s brutally hard to end a relationship, especially one that’s long-term and serious. LW1 deserves better, but first will have to go through an awful transition that will involve a loss of someone who is, I’m sure, beloved as well as harmful. We’re all wishing you the safety to escape this relationship, and the support to find peace once it’s gone.

  5. Bruce*

    LW1: So many red flags. Not OK for your partner to lay hands on you or try to bully you. My late wife had a couple of gropers at her job, she handled them with more physical force than you did but she had a black belt and knew how to apply pain holds >:-) (I knew from her practicing on me!) You get to choose what feels safe and effective to you, he needs to butt out. I’d suggest couples counseling but only if you feel safe even bringing it up! Dude is on thin ice.

    1. Observer*

      I’d suggest couples counseling but only if you feel safe even bringing it up!

      No. People like that are quite good at weaponizing that kind of therapy unless the therapist is REALLY good. In which case they will either dismiss the couple, partner is going to drop out, or the therapist will tell LW to get out of the relationship.

      1. bamcheeks*

        Yeah, I would agree with this. And someone who has doubled-down on shoving you and is planning to escalate to contacting your boss, AND who has already justified his aggression as “protecting [unnamed] women [who never asked for his protection]” is likely to be very effective at manipulating his actions in therapy. You don’t owe him this chance, LW.

      2. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        This. Couples therapy can be another venue for someone to abuse their partner, and it seems that lots of therapists aren’t good at recognizing those dynamics.

    2. I&I*

      If a man shoves his partner, it’s past the point for couples counselling.

      Couples counselling is for two people of equal good will who have issues they want to resolve to their mutual benefit. This is a case of one person having done absolutely nothing wrong and the other person bullying and assaulting her.

      The best thing a couples counsellor could do would be to tell them they were in the wrong room and refer them for separate counselling, her for support and him for abusive thinking. Anything else would support his abuse by framing it as a mutual issue.

      1. Scarlet2*

        Yeah, couples counseling is notoriously dangerous in abusive situations. Based on the letter, the BF would probably be particularly adept at using therapy speak to manipulate the situation to his advantage.
        And I agree with I&I that abuse is not a situation that you work out in counseling anyway, it’s a situation that the victim needs to get away from and I hope that LW has a good support network and can get a safe exit strategy in place asap.

      2. Aerin*

        I *was* gonna say couples counseling, because (especially if this is a first offense) it could very well be the trauma talking. It would make sense that someone might react very badly when caught by surprise, and IF they immediately recognize that they’ve crossed a line and express genuine remorse, it’s possible for them to process and to learn the skills to prevent that sort of thing in the future. (Big if! The POS insult on its own is pretty unforgivable.)

        BUT BUT BUT

        I missed the detail about the shoving initially. Saying things that are stupid and wrong-headed might be excusable under some circumstances, but making it physical is not. Check out loveisrespect.org and stay safe.

      3. Working under my down comforter*

        Agreed. I did couples counseling where our therapist met with me alone and told me directly that he was bad news. I figured our problems were partially my fault but she helped me realize that I was reacting to his controlling behavior. In hindsight, she was right about him.

    4. Irish Teacher.*

      I think it would be better for her to go through with her idea of leaving him. Couples counselling is only going to leave her in the relationship for longer and give this a chance to esclate. He’s already shoved her. It is likely to get worse from here.

      I kind of think that when your partner becomes physically aggressive with you and especially when they don’t even appear to be apologetic, but instead act like you are in the wrong and that it’s embarrassing they “had” to do it, there’s no real coming back from that. It’s past time for counselling, way past thin ice, past last chances. At that point, the relationship is over and it’s “leave as quickly as you can safely do so” territory.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Came here to say exactly this, LW#1. Please leave as soon and as safely as you can.
        Wishing you the very best!

    6. MigraineMonth*

      OP’s partner needs therapy, but it’s too dangerous for OP to stay with someone who is emotionally, verbally and physically abusive in the hope that he might someday change.

      OP, you deserve better right now and there’s so much better out there for you.

      1. Bruce*

        I appreciate the wise replies, I amend my suggest to individual counseling for LW1 (for support) and contacting a DV support group.

    7. Might Be Spam*

      No, sending an abuser to couples therapy is like sending them to school. They learn how to abuse you better. Been there, done that.

  6. Worldwalker*

    LW1, that relationship is not safe.

    Aside from your partner’s total lack of respect for you and all women, he laid hands on you! That’s a Red-Square-on-May-Day level of red flags.

  7. I’ve got the shrimp!*

    LW1 I have the feeling the response you’ve received is likely not one you were expecting so I just want to give you some internet hugs.

    (I also completely agree with Alison’s comments. I can’t imagine how you must feel reading this but please know that this internet stranger believes in you!)

    1. Myrin*

      Interestingly, I have a feeling the response is exactly what OP was expecting – she is ending her whole letter saying that she is very (very!) close to ending the relationship, after all. I hope Alison’s answer and the comments are the last push she needed.

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        This was my read, too. The LW may have wanted reassurance that she’s done nothing wrong. It can be hard to hold fast against someone you love and trust forcefully telling you that you’re wrong and bad and your actions will hurt countless other women, etc.

    2. Lady Lessa*

      I want to second (or higher multiplier) your comment. Don’t have anything to say about this issue, other than I’ve experienced some myself. But I do have a bunch of good male co-workers who I enjoy. I hope that LW1 finds some good ones as well.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Yes. I am sorry you worked with so many terrible men (and I’m not even talking about the harasser) and in such an awful work culture. There are so much better out there.

        I’ve worked in majority-male teams my entire career, and I have never seen a man allowed to (encouraged to?!) act the way your harasser did.

    3. merida*

      Yes, came here to say this too. <3 Hugs, OP #1. I'm sure these comments are hard to read. Please take care of yourself.

  8. ThrowawayDVworker*

    Domestic violence worker by trade here. LW1, you deserve to be safe and you deserve to be supported. Escalating from verbal to physical is a really dangerous sign. I see a lot in my work that women “don’t want to bother us” with stuff that “isn’t that bad.” I get that minimisation is a coping strategy – it was certainly mine as a DV survivor. We get up and we do our jobs every day to support any woman who needs us (in the women’s space, there are also services for men and my service supports non-binary folks as well, and 99.9% of workers at least where I am are incredibly supportive of the LGBTQIA+ community, I’m gay myself.) It’s really not a competition of who has it the worst. Please know that there are passionate, skilled and dedicated workers who would be overjoyed to assist you with whatever you need. We can assist with safety planning, exit planning, ongoing housing and financial support, counselling, security upgrades, reporting to Police and obtaining a protection order, etc etc. We will support you to be safe even if you’re not ready to leave the relationship, but the escalation to physical violence is really concerning. A lot of people ask me if I work at a refuge – I don’t, and refuge would be less than 1% of the clients that we support. I would also run a safety check on your phone – in iOS you can go to settings and select “safety check” which will show you what you’re sharing with who, and on Android it’s under “Security and Privacy”, again in settings. Using a friends’ device or a public device (or your work one) is the safest way to search for info.

    You could also set up a code word with your loved one’s, something like “apples”, which can mean “I need you to come over/call the Police.”

    I don’t know the specifics so this is all really general advice, but I do encourage you definitely to talk to a professional. The worst outcome on calling one of us is you waste half an hour of your time with advice you don’t take, and the worst things that can happen if you don’t call us are much more dangerous to your safety and wellbeing.

    I’d also look up DARVO which was coined by Jennifer Friedman – it stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

    Multiple tips are available online as well. I’m sure this thread is going to be well-moderated, but due diligence requires me to say please don’t share any other people’s stories (e.g. my sister/cousin/friend went through X), anything triggering, or anything that could discourage someone reaching out for help in an unsafe situation.

    LW1, you’ve clearly got some incredible strength and judgement on not tolerating sexist BS and on keeping yourself safe. Your local DV workers are there to support you with what you want and how you want to do things.

    1. Observer*

      Thank you for this. Such, good actionable advice for the LW and anyone else reading.

      due diligence requires me to say please don’t share ~~~snip~~~ or anything that could discourage someone reaching out for help in an unsafe situation.

      I want to call this out specifically, but this is an issue that comes up all the time. And the LW obviously needs to make her own decision, but no one should be (inadvertently or not) scaring her from walking away.

      2. ThrowawayDVworker*

        You’re all so welcome. And yeah literally 100% of the time I’ve had a woman or a non binary person call me and be some shade of “it’s not domestic violence/is it really domestic violence/it’s Not That Bad”, it really is that bad. What I say to people is I’m not going to tell them what words to use to describe their own experience, but it certainly meets the definition from where I’m sitting.

        To anyone – if you’re uncomfortable with the discussion, it means your empathy is working. Do something with it – donate your time or your money if you can, read an article, find a local service to support, whether it’s men’s, women’s, or children’s, but commenting on the internet won’t change the world the way it needs to be changed. If you’re not like the dudes in this story, get out there and prove it.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      I was struck by the DARVO dynamic as well; he’s made himself the victim so he can shove OP and call her a piece of shit, simply because she’s getting herself out of an unsafe situation after tackling it responsibly. I’m not sure what she is supposed to do this guy so that there is never “a next victim” in his future, but he’s certainly made sure there’s another offender in OP’s life.

      1. Anon for CA*

        That stood out to me as well, especially your last sentence. The partner is making her responsible both for his terrible conduct and for her colleague’s, which is obviously not okay.
        Hopefully he can unpack that one day, far away from LW.

      2. Gamer Girl*

        The fact that he laid hands on OP1 is game over. Shoving is a huge deal. Shoving and yelling at her about “protecting women”?! Please contact a DV hotline OP. This is a huge deal.

        Please don’t let his story about being a victim fool you. He is the perpetrator in your relationship. Stay safe, get any important documents out of your shared living space and make sure that he doesn’t have access to your bank or financial information. Make a safety plan with a DV counselor and get out of the relationship and living situation as soon as possible.

        I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but he is escalating. You need to protect yourself.

        1. Jackalope*

          I’d also like to call out the bit about how he said that it’s embarrassing that a man has to stand up for women’s rights. There SHOULD BE men standing up for women’s rights! Not that that’s what he’s doing here, but this is a responsibility that men should in fact take on. They’re less likely to face consequences than women are, it’s less likely to be dangerous for them, and it’s more likely to be effective if they say something than if women do. Again, he shouldn’t be stepping in here because he doesn’t work there and it’s out of line for him to do what he’s planning, but I’m giving serious side eye to the OP’s male colleagues who instead of supporting her decided to make her the butt of jokes after the harasser left the room.

    4. Lozi*

      thank you for sharing all this … what great info.
      LW, we see you, we hear you, and we want to support you.

    5. Limes*

      Very helpful comment. I’ve never heard of DARVO before, but looking it up now – that is EXACTLY the sequence that played out in the lead-up to my estrangement with my father. Very interesting and also weirdly gratifying to see the pattern, in some way? I also found Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft a very useful read in the weeks before I pulled the plug on our relationship.

    6. ZSD*

      #1 Please do get help to find a safe place. Your relationship is clearly unsafe. And please know that we’re all rooting for you!

  9. Mockingbird*

    LW1, it sounds like you handled the creep at work just fine. He got disciplined, you’ve gotten a better job somewhere else. The higher ups did hear about his behavior, and if he hasn’t been fired for the ways he’s bad at his job that you’ve had to clean up after, they wouldn’t have done it for sexual harassment either. I agree with other commenters that your partner’s behavior is more worrying. It’s very controlling, and he escalated. Even people who’ve been victims of abuse can be abusive. If you’re not in therapy, it would be a good idea to start the process. I know from experience it can be hard to leave such a relationship, and it helps to have someone who can help you work through all the feelings that come with trying to, and when you do.

    1. merida*

      Yes. Op, if you see this, please know you didn’t do anything wrong how you handled your work creep. I think you handled it like a champ. If anyone, including your boyfriend, is coming at you about how you did it “wrong,” that would be textbook definition victim blaming. You did not do. anything. wrong.

  10. Observer*

    #1 – Harassment

    I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I agree with Allison 100%

    I don’t think your relationship is salvageable. The idea that he’s being an “ally” by *threatening you* is beyond absurd, and a relationship killer all on its own. The same is true for the shove. Together? This is not salvageable.

    As for contacting the director, he’s being ridiculous. But it’s not your problem. You’re leaving. So even if anyone there decides that it’s somehow your fault, there is nothing they can do to you.

    I’m sorry you had to deal with this jerk, with a company who is not doing what it needs to to keep their staff safe and a really terrible partner.

    PS Being a survivor of domestic abuse does not come close to excusing his behavior. It’s even really an explanation.

    1. el l*

      Exactly. Hurt people hurt people. Nothing he said or did here can be excused by his past, or his professed ideals.

      Not often relationship advice comes up here, but – leave.

    2. MassMatt*

      The letter was disturbing on multiple levels.

      This seems minor compared to the sexual harassment and abuse from her partner, but on top of everything—think how inappropriate and disempowering it is for someone to call someone else’s boss about this.

      Really we have had lots of letters just about THAT, and in this case it’s just a… detail?

      I hope the LW gets help and support!

      1. merida*

        You put into words exactly how I feel.
        I hope OP can feel validated and have all the internet hugs and support from these comments.

  11. Southern Violet*

    #1 Your boyfriend sucks and is abusive and isnt going to change. Get to somewhere safe as soon as you can. Good luck.

  12. TheBunny*

    #1

    I’m so sorry. Your partner, as Alison said, is abusive. You handled the harassment in a way that worked for you. He’s hiding misogyny, abuse, and controlling behavior behind the guise of being an ally.

    Please at least make a plan on how to leave and be ready to protect yourself.

    I’ve been where you are. It doesn’t get better until you get out.

    Sending love.

  13. I&I*

    OP3 – I hate that this is true, but if they don’t know you have ADHD, really, really don’t tell them.

    Maybe you’re in a workplace that understands it, but people generally don’t. Of course it’s technically illegal to discriminate, but my partner has ADHD, and when they told a manager, what happened was not what they needed – ie, reminders about upcoming meetings, patience while they adjusted their medication, and allowing them to arrange their workflow to suit an ADHD brain. What they got was endless micromanaging and the assumption that every decision they took was the decision of an unreliable person that needed to be audited, to the point my partner had to take medical leave because of the stress. They were good at their job and highly qualified; they got treated like an incompetent child every minute of the day, and it was poisonous.

    Workplaces can call it ‘accommodation’ when what they’re actually doing is discrimination and persecution. If you’re dealing with a manager who has stereotypes about the condition – and realistically that’s most people – then they may not know the difference. There’s no recourse for that.

    Add to that PMDD and you’re dealing with two extremely stigmatized issues, and honestly I wouldn’t gamble on being understood. I’d say there’s far too high a risk that instead of seeing you as a competent adult managing a medical issue, they’d see you as a crazy person who shouldn’t be allowed to do any thinking for themselves – and once you get that label there’s nothing to do but quit and find a new workplace where they don’t know.

    So yeah, I agree with Alison. All they need to know is that you have a medical issue. The details are none of their business.

    1. Lenora Rose*

      This. And “I’m sorry, I’m having some issues with a medication interaction, and it’s just bad luck it also hit on a work-crisis week” is enough, and true, without adding in details of two different often-stigmatized conditions to the things your workplace can hold against you.

      Sometimes it works – I know people who are very frank about their mental health in supportive workplaces – but you can always start with your toe in the water just by explaining “medication issue”, and mention the other parts later as you become sure it’s safe. You don’t have to dive in on the deep end.

      1. misspiggy*

        Agreed. I have a physically disabling condition which intersects with, and is made much worse by, ADHD. I’m pretty frank with colleagues and managers about the physical disabilities which result but I never mention ADHD, I put it all on the other condition.

      2. Dahlia*

        And if you need it to be, that medication can be literally anything. I’m unlucky enough to be REALLY sensitive to certain side effects in even minor medications, so whenever I start a new allergy medication, even a supposedly non-drowsy one, it takes a week or two for it to stop affecting me.

  14. Lanam*

    LW #1:

    You have now seen how your partner handles extreme stress and disagreements with you, at minimum. I urge you to consider if you will accept this treatment from him long-term, and I hope you won’t.

    He will apologize and grovel and promise not to do it again, and he will sincerely mean it. But past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. He will do this again, possibly much worse.

    Shoving your loved one is never ever justified except in self defense. Berating and degrading you in the name of feminism reeks severely misguided principles rooted in wanting to “take control” and not in respecting your autonomy and your boundaries on YOUR life and YOUR work. Can you imagine giving him an ultimatum about going to his HR at his job, and how he’d take that?

    To be clear, even if you later end up believing he was right and you should have reported the misogynistic boss, that does NOT mean your partner’s abusive behavior now should be excused. His argument and his behavior (the verbal abuse, the physical abuse, the disrespect) are independent of each other.

    I wish you luck.

    1. Fry Day*

      But past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

      Oof. This is highly problematic. It’s the same logic men use to justify not dating promiscuous women. A person’s past shouldn’t be held against them or used to “predict” their future behavior.

      1. AnonForThis*

        So people deserve unlimited chances no matter what?
        When people show you who they are, believe them. People can change, but only if they want to. Many don’t want to.

        1. Fry Day*

          Of course not! I just think that people should be given the opportunity to change—something that you seem to agree with based on your second paragraph.

          1. HonorBox*

            People can be given the opportunity to change, but no one has to sit around and feel unsafe while waiting on that change.

            1. Polar Bear Hug*

              They have the opportunity to change for other people in their life. They don’t have the right for me to stay around for that change to happen.

      2. Anon yo*

        I don’t find it problematic in that it’s basically telling people to keep their eyes open for the behavior. Can ppl change, certainly. Do most people have patterns of behavior? Yes.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        That’s what a reputation is.

        Including a professional reputation, which comes up most often here.

        1. Fry Day*

          What should I have said? It’s a descriptive term—the men I’m talking about use far harsher language than “promiscuous”!

      5. Who Nelly Furtado was singing about*

        What? I say this as a ‘promiscuous woman’ – I promise I don’t want to date men who are fine with that because, what? Women who sleep around, like abusive men, may change??? I don’t need people to ‘overlook’ that because I’m ‘different now.’

        I truly see no parallel here at all. If a guy doesn’t want to date me because he believes that sex shouldn’t be casual, that’s an incompatibility and that’s fine. If he thinks only men should have casual sex, then I’m not interested because I think that’s misogynistic and silly. If I had a history of cheating (not ‘I’ve slept with a bunch of people when I have made no commitments that are broken by that’) that’s … also not bonkers if it’s a deal breaker. If I were committed to non-monogamy and someone wanted a monogamous relationship, also a sign on incompatibility.

        None of the above are helped or influenced or changed by chastising someone for saying that you should look for someone’s historical actions when trying to determine what they will do in the future. It’s damaging to people trying to navigate abusive situations and it does nothing for the group you (fairly randomly?) are saying it would help.

        1. Anon for CA*

          “I truly see no parallel here at all.” Because there isn’t and the parallel to an abusive male partner would be an abusive female partner. Not this frankly unwarranted side-tracking that started the whole sub-thread.

      6. RagingADHD*

        Well, if men have their values screwed up about things that are none of their business (like past partners in general), that doesn’t make the principle less true when correctly applied.

        However, if someone doesn’t want to date a person with a history of cheating, then the principle remains true – past cheating behavior is actually a very accurate predictor of future behavior.

      7. MassMatt*

        I don’t know what bothers me more, that you are using the misogynistic term “sexually promiscuous women” (why do we never hear men called sexually promiscuous? No, they are called “sexually active”), or that you are comparing the likelihood of repeated domestic violence with what traits men look for in their dating choices.

        Eew.

        1. MassMatt*

          Correction—I HAVE heard the term sexually promiscuous leveled at men, in particular gay men, and especially during the first decade or so of the AIDS crisis.

          IMO this buttresses the case that the term is misogynistic instead of undermining it, as we often see misogyny and homophobia closely linked.

      8. Elizabeth West*

        Not really. No one can 100% predict anything, but without intervention, the behavior is likely to recur. All this means is that it bears watching.

      9. Frosty*

        This is such a strange way to derail the conversation into an area that is totally unrelated.

        Additionally, this is not the logic men use for not dating sexually active women. These men don’t worry she will be promiscuous in the future, it’s that they don’t like that she’s been with other men at all.

        People can be held against the standard of their own past behaviour – in fact it’s really the only firm information we have to go on when navigating relationships.

      10. Anon for This*

        A man not dating a woman due to his views on her past sexual behavior does not lead to the woman being dead.

        A woman giving a man another chance despite his past behavior of abuse can end up dead.

        See the difference?

    2. MigraineMonth*

      Yes! Even if were right about reporting the harassment (which he isn’t, his threat to call the director is a bizarre reaction), nothing justifies his behavior.

  15. Jill Swinburne*

    Obviously echoing everyone else here, but I really want to stress that LW1’s partner’s behaviour and reaction is NOT normal. You handled the work situation fine, and more importantly, you handled it in the way that you believed was best, because it was yours to handle.

    What your partner is doing is domestic abuse, no ifs or buts, and it’s really alarming that it’s escalated to physical abuse. I know sometimes it’s hard to see when you’re in the thick of it, but please take on board all the excellent advice here. Please make a plan to get out safely, and good luck. I hope there’s an update from you in a few months or years to say that you’re out of the relationship and doing great.

  16. hazel herds cats*

    LW1, please call 1-800-799-7233, the national domestic violence hotline (also at thehotline.org) now. Today.

    You can build a life in which you come home every day to a home that is a sanctuary.

    We can help. Please call.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Based on the LW’s language I suspect she is not in the US, but this is still a good number for people to have.

  17. Bob*

    Black Jesus.. my partner physically abused me because he didn’t like how I handled a situation at work.

    Get safe and get gone!

  18. LadyJ*

    I think as someone who has worked in Domestic Violence and been a survivor I feel one of the more dangerous types of men is the male advocate who pretends to be an advocate for DV victims but is actually an abuser. He wants you to do it his way or else you have no dignity or don’t really care about women. It is a form of white knighting. It seems like he cares but is controlling and manipulative.

    2. Jinni*

      My ex was (is) this person. For everyone else, he’s a feminist. When I wanted to work…not so much.

  19. Still*

    LW1, you said:

    “I plainly told him this is my situation and my work, and he’s being controlling and overstepping. (…) I’m very close to ending my relationship.”

    I think you know your situation best and it sounds like you already know how you feel and what to do. I hope you keep trusting your judgement, and that you get a lot of support from your loved ones.

  20. Lady Knittington*

    LW1 – a woman absolutely has the right to decide how she wants to deal with and react to harassment at work. Telling her otherwise is not sticking up for that right.

    A woman also has the right to decide how she wants to deal with a physically aggressive and verbally abusive partner who doesn’t respect her boundaries.

  21. mcdonalds grimace*

    Lw1 I know others have answered this thoroughly but I would like to join the chorus of voices supporting you – I wish you all the best. <3

  22. Bananapants Modiste*

    OP1:
    I won’t pile on you further.
    Your partner is giving me a vibe of him “owning” you, of him being angry his “property” was harassed, and said property not doing what he, the owner, thinks is right (and not telling him right away so he can defend the property, not the person).

    Just a thought.

  23. BritishGirl*

    LW1 here.
    Thank you all for your comments. I am fully aware that this is a domestic violence situation and told him immediately, all throughout the confrontation that he was being abusive and I haven’t let that go. We have since discussed the matter calmly and I explained how his behaviour was completley and totally unacceptable and he completely agreed with me. I explained abuse is a total deal breaker and something he can’t really come back from, we are taking some time apart, and I have plenty of friends around me to go and stay with and for support.
    I’m made of pretty strong stuff and I am safe, but I thank you all for your love, support, kindness, encouragement and well wishes.

    1. Jill Swinburne*

      So glad to hear that! I hope you stay safe and things look up for you very very soon. Wishing you all the best.

    3. Bananapants Modiste*

      LW1: A somewhat longer comment of mine was lost, but I am glad to hear you are OK.

      I agree it will be very hard, perhaps impossible, for your partner to repair the relationship.
      In the original letter, he gave off a vibe of ownership of your person, which Not Good.

      As I remarked in a different post, people have reasons to be how they are.
      You already said your partner came from a difficult background, and that may have shaped his reactions.

      This is not to excuse him – if he resorted to DV in a relationship, he needs help.
      But he doesn’t need you to pummel and control.

      Please continue taking care of yourself.

      1. BritishGirl*

        Thank you. Very difficult reading some of the comments, but I really appreicate your comment as it mirrors how I feel entirely.

        1. Laser99*

          “Taking some time apart”….?!? Girl, please leave. Just leave. This action cannot be undone.

    4. Insert Clever Name Here*

      So good to hear this! As you said, this isn’t something he can come back from. Sending internet hugs and best wishes that your new job is fantastic in every way.

      (LW1* for those who search)

    5. Myrin*

      You sound awesome and very admirable, OP #1, both in how you dealt with the original work situation and how you’re doing now. I’m sure you’ll be coming out of this in exactly the way and with the exact result you’ve wished for – easier said than done as an outsider, I know, but there’s something so confident and strong about your words that I can’t be convinced otherwise.
      All the best to you and best wishes for you new job as well!

    6. Irish Teacher.*

      Thank you for updating us. It’s good to know that you are safe. You sound like an amazingly strong person who dealt with this situation fantastically.

      And I’m glad he realised his behaviour was unacceptable.

    7. ReallyBadPerson*

      I’m very glad you are out! I say this as the mother of an abuse survivor: Do not go back unless your partner gets counseling and exhibits sustained behavioral changes. My daughter made that mistake once, and the abuse got much worse.

      The only real apology is made with actions, not words.

    8. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

      I’m glad that you’re safe and have a good support network. Please take care of yourself.

    11. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’m so glad to hear you were able to get out of that situation safely. I hope that if he agreed with you, he’s shaken enough by the idea of being an abuser that he gets himself some help to address his issues. I want to add, though, that I hear you say “we’re taking some time apart,” and that sounds to me like you’re already leaving the door open to get back together. I personally would NOT consider that. Find space to forgive him one day if he does the real, hard work on himself and changes? Sure. But from a distance.

    12. iglwif*

      So glad to hear you are safe! Wishing you all the very best in your professional and personal life alike.

    13. Parenthesis Guy*

      LW #1: It sounds like you’ve made your very reasonable decision about how to proceed.

      If you want to do him a kindness, it seems that he hasn’t gotten over his domestic abuse issues. You may want to encourage him to look into therapy for that if he hasn’t gotten it already.

    14. Chauncy Gardener*

      Thank you thank you for updating us on this. I’m so glad you’ve been able to get some space from him and I hope you have a wonderful future!

    15. Jennifer Strange*

      I have nothing to add that hasn’t already been said, but please take care of yourself. Sending you tons of positive vibes!

    17. learnedthehardway*

      I’m very glad that you took these steps. I would strongly advise that you not even consider resuming the relationship.

      I was in a relationship with someone who had come from a multi-generational family violence background. He was a wonderful person. But the issues were there and came through a couple of times in high stress situations. I gave him the ultimatum that he get counselling and later found out he had not done so. I broke things off, in part because I could see that it wasn’t safe for me to be in a relationship with him, in part because the potential for violence made it impossible for me to trust him, and in part other, unrelated issues. In the end, I decided that love wasn’t enough to sustain a relationship.

      You have to put your own oxygen mask on first, here. You can’t fix him.

    18. Ali + Nino*

      Adding another voice to the chorus – you sound like you know what you’re doing, and it’s all good. Wishing you only the best as you navigate these challenges <3

    22. Lanam*

      I’m so glad to hear this! So many women have a difficult time recognizing early DV signs so I think the commentariat (me included) got extra defensive of you and I imagine it was a lot to take in. I’m glad you’ve got a good support system.

    23. boof*

      It absolutely sucks you’re going through all this but it sounds like you’ve got a great insight into what’s going on and are doing all the right things. Best of luck and glad you are doing what you need to do.

    24. Tammy 2*

      I’m glad you’re safe.

      I am sure you know this, but aside from the physical stuff–you don’t deserve to be spoken to that way the way he did.

      Take care of yourself. I’m hoping for better days ahead for you.

    25. Nah*

      I’m so glad that this is ending, if not a fairytale ending, but a situation you’ve gotten under control and are safe in.

      (tagging for future reference) die anyone looking for your response: op* op1* lw* lw1*

  24. bamcheeks*

    LW4, “stepped up to cover maternity leave for more senior position” is really common in the UK, and the challenge of how to step back down is also really common! Generally speaking, people either step down going, “thank goodness, your inbox is a nightmare and I don’t envy you!” or they start looking for a new job at the higher level. This is really normal and expected, and IMO one of the benefits of 9-12 months parental leave is that people get to step up and try out higher level roles!

    In terms of stepping back down— anticipate some discomfort, and think about good spaces to vent! If you need to moan about how your beautiful and sexy new processes are being undone, it’s good to have a few trustworthy friends or colleagues you can moan about it to, safe in the knowledge it won’t come back to bite you.

    But most importantly, try and internalise the idea that there is no one-to-one scale on which one of you is better and the other is worse. Most likely, both of you have some strengths and weaknesses and you approach the job differently: one of you is more organised but the other does better at the relationship side; one of you is more comfortable with the data management, and the other leans in to raising the profile of the service within the organsation or whatever. If you see changes and a different approach when the other person comes back, look at it as a learning opportunity: what are they doing better than you? What’s the impact of that? Is that something you could do differently when you get your next higher-level role? And what is the stuff that you value that they don’t, that you can start selling as your strength when you are job seeking? Basically, try and see this as another opportunity to develop on the assumption that your career is going to keep moving forward.

    1. UKDancer*

      Yes, I’ve done maternity cover at least once and it was a really good opportunity to work at a more senior post and try things out. I used it to get a more senior job in a different part of the company. So I’d recommend making sure you have a list of your achievements if you want to go for something more senior.

      I’d entirely agree with the other comments about venting to a friend and seeing that you both have strengths and weaknesses. Above all, be pleasant and professional to your returning colleague and welcome her back so you look professional.

    2. CL*

      I’m curious if it is normal to receive the higher level pay while working the higher level job in the UK. Let’s not discuss the sad state of parental leave and coverage in the US. ;)

      1. Amey*

        Yes, if it’s a proper maternity cover then it’s normal to get the higher level pay. A number of my colleagues have done this, including the colleague who covered my maternity leave!

      2. Myrin*

        Not in the UK but in another country with very similar rules and laws around this topic and definitely you get the higher-level pay.

      3. bamcheeks*

        Yes, definitely. There are definitely some employers which will decide to try and middle through without formally covering the role and someone will end up informally acting up / covering the higher level responsibilities without the formal job title change or pay increase. But usually you will either hire someone or have someone act up on a fixed term basis with the full job title and salary.

      4. Lexi Vipond*

        In my (UK public sector and university) experience, 9-12 month maternity covers are often advertised like any other job – someone might take that, then start applying for permanent jobs at the higher level as it nears the end. It’s seen as a good way to get a foot in the door.

        It can be done as a secondment (where you take the job for a fixed time, but your old job is held for you), but I’ve seen that more often when people are being recruited to fixed-term projects (which might be roles at the same level, just different).

        I once covered part of my boss’s role for a shorter time (1-2 month sick leave), and I was paid as if I was on the pay grade in between us for that time (we were two grades apart usually), but I can’t remember if my grade actually changed for the period, or if I was just paid a lump sum (that definitely happened on another occasion!)

        1. 40 Years in the Hole*

          For sure. I was appointed into my manager’s position (federal employee) for about 6 months while they were out on medical leave. Signed the letter of offer at the higher level and paid accordingly. Reverted to my original pay level/responsibilities upon their return. Good experience. And I didn’t burn anything down lol

      7. UKDancer*

        Yes, when I was covering maternity leave I got paid at the appropriate level for the job I was covering.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’m recently back from a medical leave (US), and I bet the returning person feels a something like l do — a bit adrift trying to find out what intentionally changed while I was gone.

      You might knock their socks off by doing a formal turn-over document describing decisions you made (with your reasoning), procedural changes, a list of completed vs added vs ongoing projects, and questions that you deferred for her return.
      These all being things I’m still trying to gather!

    4. Great Frogs of Literature*

      I went through a… not precisely analogous situation, as mine was technically not a demotion (and the management position was not intended to be temporary), but I was a manager for a year and now I’m not anymore. Things I’ve learned/noticed/how I’ve dealt with it:

      – The job I came back to is definitely not the job I left. (I don’t even have the same title, but this would be true even if I did.) I’m different. Other people treat me differently as a result of me having been a person with authority (people outside my team) or in a role with more formal mentorship expectations (inside my team). My new boss treats me as something more like an assistant manager, and I’m still doing some amount of manager-adjacent work.
      – There are a lot of things I really like about being an individual contributor. While I enjoyed the challenges of manager work, I also found it more difficult and stressful. I appreciate not feeling responsible for the team pulling off big projects on tight deadlines.
      – I was kind of pissed at the guy who took over some of the initiatives I’d been project managing (not my boss — one of his peers) EVEN THOUGH I hadn’t actually wanted to be responsible for those initiatives in the first place. There’s still a part of me that thinks I would have done a better job. But he has produced results, and I’ve come around to a place where the things he’s bad at are still annoying, but I’m glad enough to not be in charge of everything that I can mostly just let it roll off my back.
      – My manager IS good at a number of things that I am less good at, and I’m taking this as an opportunity to learn from him so that if I take a try at management again, it will be with more tools in my toolbox. It helps that he’s pretty deliberate about teaching me, and explaining what he’s doing and why.
      – Some of the things that my manager is less good at are things that I am good at, and we can work together to do a better job overall than we would do singly.
      – There has been A LOT going on in my personal life for the past six or nine months, and I’m honestly kind of grateful to not have been dealing with manager stress on top of that — particularly since the organization overall has gotten more chaotic. I can just focus on my work and let my manager deal with a lot of that.

    5. iglwif*

      This! I’m in Canada where the “standard” amount of maternity/parental leave is between 12 and 18 months, and it is extremely common to step up into a “higher” role as a mat leave cover. I did it early in my career; on my team at Current!Job, 1 person is a maternity cover and another is on contract covering for someone else who is currently a maternity cover for someone on another team. Across our (~50-person) company I think we have at least 5 such situations currently ongoing! (I work in a very woman-heavy industry.)

      My daughter, who’s beginning her career in an entirely unrelated industry, just “stepped down” from a maternity contract at the beginning of Jan and is scheduled to begin another one in a few months; meanwhile, she’s doing a different job at the same organization — not the one she originally “stepped up” from, but one with a slightly higher salary — because she did very well on that first maternity contract and they want to make sure she sticks around to do the second one.

      Maternity contracts are an exceedingly common way for people to learn and demonstrate new skills, take on more or different responsibilities, cross-train across roles or teams … and get promoted. Although your employer has to guarantee your job (or an equivalent job) when you return from leave, you as the employee don’t have the same legal obligation to come back to that job,* and some people start a maternity cover contract and then end up in the role permanently because the person on leave either decided not to come back to work or found another job during their leave.

      But most people do come back, and then the maternity cover has the choice OP is facing: go back to their old job and their old salary, or use their new skills and experience to look for a next-step-up role somewhere else. If OP decides not to go back to their original role, their employer may be disappointed but is unlikely to be shocked.

      1. iglwif*

        Ugh, forgot my footnote:

        * If your employer “tops up” your EI pay to get you closer to your usual salary, they will often require you to agree either to come back to your job for a certain amount of time or pay back the top-up. If they don’t top up, you’re a 100% free agent.

    6. Momma Bear*

      In some companies, it’s not uncommon to “borrow” people to fill in, and this can be an opportunity for someone to gain skills or experience in a different area. Sometimes they return, and sometimes they don’t. I think LW should take the things they learned in this role and discuss their future with their boss – where can they apply those skills? Is it sensible for them to return to their same old role or a new one? Should they be looking for similar-level opportunities within the company? Etc.

  25. archangelsgirl*

    LW 1. This was very triggering for me.

    It’s a behavior exhibited by my past partner which says:

    If I’m “protecting ” you, I can be as abusive to you as I want. Any behavior I exhibit towards you is okay, because I’m protecting you and I’m indignant on your behalf, so you’re not allowed to have a problem with my behavior. I’m just mad at THEM not YOU. My righteous anger and indignation on your behalf gives me a right to be angry and abusive and if that anger and abuse is directed towards you, you should not only be not upset, you should be grateful.

    I don’t know, Alison. I wonder if a trigger warning is in order. I’m pretty shook, but could be just me.

    Holding you in the light, LW1

    2. ReallyBadPerson*

      I agree. I’ve been shaking with fury because I’ve been projecting my kid’s situation into this letter.

  26. Myrin*

    #2, I, too, would be very interested in hearing how he’d react if you put the whole thing right back on him as the person who is now actually able to change things.

    (Also, I’m not impressed that he ranted about OP’s manager to OP! Obviously the content of what he’s saying doesn’t come as a surprise to OP who is experiencing it daily but it seems inappropriate and also plain awkward to hear such complaints about your boss through a higher-up!)

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      the ranting to employees by an upper level executive has got to be so uncomfortable. Like how are they supposed to work these managers now they know all this stuff?

      Buddy Boy hasn’t figured out he is not one of the gang anymore. He shouldn’t be hanging out with this group so much. He needs to learn the difference between friends and friendly. Because right now he is still trying to be friends with everyone when he really can’t be. What if one of them needs to be fired? Or he finds out confidential information about an accomodation?

      He’s behaving very unprofessionaly. OP if you like this guy you would be doing him a favor not by pointing out that he has the power to fix these things but also how his behavior is actually not cool for someone at his level.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Yeah, that was out of line.

      So many people seem to be promoted to management without the slightest idea how to do it — it really is a whole new set of skills, and being good at widget programming or teapot painting does not mean you automatically know how to direct a team of widget programmers or run the teapot department.

      I really want OP to say what Alison suggested and then update us. I want to know what Michael says. Also, he needs her management book!

    3. Festively Dressed Earl*

      I’m wondering if Michael is aware that he’s in the best position to change things, but isn’t sure how to do it. LW 2, since you’re close, have you asked him one-on-one if he needs advice or is just venting? It might prompt him to either take positive action or to rethink spilling high-level beans indiscriminately.

  27. Victor WembanLlama*

    #1 almost seems beyond the scope of an AAM letter. I hope LW is getting needed help, counseling, maybe even talk to a lawyer at this point.. At least they’ve moved on to better job

  28. Spicy Tuna*

    Genuinely surprised by the answer to #1. I’ve posted here more than once about a situation I had at work. I was the only female in my department. One of my clients, a man, came into the office and greeted everyone by name, except for me. He said, “hey baby”. He was older and from a different culture. After he left, my boss mentioned it and I said, “that’s just Ralph!”. My boss said he MUST address it with him, and I asked him not to because it wouldn’t go over well. Well, my boss addressed it with him, it didn’t go over well and I lost my best client. My income dried up and I left the company, after they had paid for my expensive MBA. I don’t think anyone “won” in this situation.

    I get that OP’s partner having the reaction he did may be different than a boss wanting to get involved, but to me, it’s still a MAN taking away a WOMAN’s agency! If I told my boss it didn’t bother me and that I knew my client very well, better than he knew him, and it wouldn’t go over well, WHY wasn’t MY judgement trusted? I am a grown, adult woman and can handle my own business. If the interaction bothered me, I would have addressed with the client myself, or ASKED my MALE boss to get involved. The whole situation just felt so horribly paternalistic.

    1. Spicy Tuna*

      Adding that when I posted the above situation, I was told by Alison and the commentariat that it was 100% right for my boss to get involved the way he did, which is why I was surprised by Alison’s advice.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Managers are legally obligated to stop sexual harassment in their companies. They’d be legally negligent if they don’t. It’s a very different situation than a partner insisting on stepping in.

        1. Victor WembanLlama*

          But do you think one occurrence of “hey baby” between people who know each other well is sexual harassment?

            1. Spicy Tuna*

              Hi Alison, I posted my situation a few times as a response / comment to other letters, not a letter itself.

                1. Victor WembanLlama*

                  Maybe it’s because i agree with Spicy Tuna on her question, but to me the commenters in these old threads come off as if they know the situation better than ST herself. That is almost never the case as we have seen many many times here over the years.

              2. Cookie Monster*

                I looked at the links provided by Hlao-roo below. Neither time did Alison respond to your situation.

      2. Glen*

        so, wait. Do you think that your partner is something akin to a “boss” or that your boss is something akin to a “partner”? Because LW1’s boss behaved like your boss – stepping in and addressing the issue, and it was completely appropriate of them to do so. It’s her partner who’s out of line.

    2. Myrin*

      I don’t understand how your situation is at odds with Alison’s answer – it literally says “If he wants to advocate for women, he needs to start by respecting their autonomy and their judgment.”, which sounds like exactly the point you’re making.

    3. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I’m curious what part of Alison’s advice you are surprised by?

    4. HB*

      I’m sorry, what is it that surprised you about the answer? I don’t really see how Alison’s advice contradicts your experience?

    5. Spicy Tuna*

      Adding that the commentariat was pretty vehement in response that it wasn’t my decision to make regarding how the situation was handled

      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        One difference is that managers have a duty — legally, at least in the US — to report sexual harassment.

        It sucks that you lost a client over this and eventually needed to leave the company, and I’m not saying that your boss did a good job of handling it. I would hate feeling like a manager rode roughshod over my agency — and produced exactly the outcome I feared he would.

        But if I, as a manager, witnessed a client treating a staff member like that, and did nothing, both I and the company would potentially be legally liable if I ignored it — even if I talked with the staff member in question and they didn’t want anything said about it. (I’d hope that I could find a more tactful way to take action, and not alienate the client, but it would not be acceptable for me to do nothing, regardless of the desires of the staff member.)

        1. Victor WembanLlama*

          There’s no way one occurrence of saying “hey baby” between two people who know each other well qualifies as something a manager needs to be involved with. Alsom what would a manager be legally liable for ?

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            A client visibly treating the only woman in the room differently from how he treats all of the men in the room is absolutely something that a manager needs to be involved with. We also don’t know that Spicy Tuna was the only woman being harassed by the client.

            1. Victor WembanLlama*

              The client may have also been embezzling from his company as well. Or committing wire fraud. Or he might have been intoxicated while driving to the meeting. There are many unknowns

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                I’m not sure what point you’re making here? The boss is allowed to decide what behavior he’s going to allow from clients. Even if Spicy Tuna and the client thought the boss was being unreasonable, the fact that the client decided to drop their business simply because he wasn’t allowed to call one of the employee’s “baby” is pretty good indicator that he was being unreasonable.

                1. Victor WembanLlama*

                  I hear you on the last point, I just don’t see this as rising to the level of the boss needing to step in

              2. Bird*

                This comment is the definition of straw-manning and sea-lioning; I’m not sure what your point is here.

                1. Victor WembanLlama*

                  You’re right, that was a dumb comment on my part. – didn’t add anythign to the discussion

      2. bamcheeks*

        It wasn’t his job as a man, but it was his job as the boss. His role in the organisation gave him a responsibility to decide to address it.

        That doesn’t necessarily mean he chose the right outcome for you or that the policy I was right, however! Clearly it backfired pretty horribly for you. And the fact is that lots of organisational policies which are designed to work against harassment can have unintended consequences. But the fact that he was inside the organisation and observed the interaction himself meant he did have standing to decide how clients were allowed to interact with staff.

      3. Fluffy Fish*

        I’m sorry the situation worked out in way that was detrimental to you.

        Unfortunately, your boss was correct in that he did have to handle it. A good manager can’t witness blatant issues and ignore them.

        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          This. “I’m handling the gross sexist client” is maybe fine for Spicy Tuna on a personal level, but really overlooks that a boss can’t have a gross sexist client on the roster who is harassing their staff! Both for Spicy Tuna’s sake specifically, any future female employees who might experience it, and for everyone on staff to know that this kind of behaviour isn’t going to be tolerated just because it’s a male-dominated environment.

          I’m sorry the client losing had such a knock-on effect, and in an ideal world the business would have been robust enough that losing a client wouldn’t have this much of an impact.

        2. Spicy Tuna*

          But do you not see the incongruity here? The response to OP1 was that how she handled the situation was her business and no one else’s, which is 180* different than the response to my situation

          1. MassMatt*

            You’ve given me a lot to think about. On the one hand, victims should have agency. On the other, the burden should not be on them to do all the work to change behavior.

            Jennifer Strange below says the difference is one person is the romantic partner, and the other is the boss, who has a responsibility to address such incidents. I think I lean more towards your view, let the victim decide whether and how to proceed.

          2. amoeba*

            Well from what I hear, LW’s bosses actually also handled the situation:

            “Word got back to the directors, he was told off for his behavior, he tried to apologize to me on a work night out, and I told him, “It’s not just what you do, but after you leave the room I become the butt of the joke for the next hour and it’s all totally humiliating.” It all then stopped.”

            That’s not the same thing as “That’s just Ralph” at all?

          3. Not A Manager*

            There’s no incongruity. At base, the issue isn’t MALE telling FEMALE what to do. The issue is that work issues are handled at work, by the people who work there. We’ve seen letters where parents try to interfere, siblings try to interfere, etc. and the answer is almost always, “stay in your own lane.” In this case there was a lot of egregious male/female domestic stuff, but the principle that the employee handles work issues with their employer isn’t a gendered issue.

            In your case, your boss was emphatically staying in his own lane. Ultimately, it’s your boss’s call how to handle inappropriate behavior within the workplace.

          4. Jennifer Strange*

            The response to OP1 was that how she handled the situation was her business and no one else’s

            At the risk of being pedantic, the response to OP1 was that how she handled the situation was not her boyfriend’s business and that while it would be understandable that he was upset about it being abusive about it both physically and vocally was not okay. If your situation has been you asked your boss not to talk to the client and the boss responded by shouting insults at you and pushing you the response would have been different.

          5. learnedthehardway*

            I think your situation is a good illustration of how someone else stepping in to deal with a harassment situation may result in unforeseen consequences.

            I agree with you that your manager should also have worked WITH you to deal with the issue, rather than to unilaterally decide how to deal with it himself.

            But it’s very different than the OP’s situation, because as a manager in the business, you manager had an obligation to do something about it, because of the legal liability to the company. He did discuss with you the need to confront the client. He should have made it clearer that you had to either confront the client or he had to do so, and why.

          6. Zone the Great*

            I’m so sorry that happened to you, Spicy Tuna, but you’re wrong about this and you’re conflating your situation and the LW’s. Your boss was right to do what he did. And you’re right to feel upset about your situation. But it still wasn’t the wrong thing to do.

            1. Zona the Great*

              Also, let’s not forget that your client apparently didn’t like being told not to call a professional woman “babe” enough to leave which is insane. Why doesn’t that detail bother you?

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                Oh, very good point! Unless the boss hurled obscenities at the client about the situation, being told “Hey, please keep it professional when talking to Spicy Tuna and address her by her name as you do for the men on the team” shouldn’t be a deal breaker, even if the client doesn’t see the issue.

          7. Tio*

            Because the people taking away the choice were in two different positions.

            Yours was a boss ho had a legal obligation to step in lest the company be subject to a potential lawsuit – sure you’re “ok” with it, but what if he escalated, or it was making other people uncomfortable? They would be in a bad situation for legal behavior. The advice wasn’t that YOU had to step up and report it, it was that a higher power witnessing it had an obligation to step up and report it because *that was part of his job.*

            If LW1s boss was witnessing this behavior, or she reports it to him, he has an obligation to stop it. But OP’s partner, who is not at the company and did not witness anything, has no standing to report it, nor control how or whether she reports it. SO *he* has to mind his business and be supportive, because that is his role. But if it were her boss, it would literally be his business.

          8. Ellis Bell*

            Are you saying that your boss has no more say in your working conditions than a partner who does not work with you?! I agree that even the boss has to consider his employee’s view before making his decision of whether she was harassed or not, but it’s definitely not her call and her call only. Whereas if it’s a non employee it’s absolutely none of their business.

          9. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            Which of the 2 situations are you referencing here? The one with the workplace or the one with the domestic partner? Because only the former is equivalent.

        3. MsM*

          +1. Your boss gets to decide he’s willing to risk no longer doing business with a sexist client if said client doesn’t knock it off, because that ultimately impacts other employees and the business’s reputation. If he then blames you for the revenue hit, that’s a problem, but it’s a problem that probably would have surfaced in some other way eventually.

          Also, like Alison said, how the partner in L1 is handling his displeasure over the situation means it doesn’t really matter whether he might have had a point without the violence.

        4. H3llifIknow*

          But why does the boss in this case get to decide it was an issue? What if Spicy Tuna heard a waitress or his 65 year old secretary call him sweetie or honey and said, “Oh I HAVE to handle this for you. She can’t be doing that. I’m going to her manager about it.” Would your response be the same? No? Think about why. I get to decide what is offensive to ME, and so does Spicy Tuna. She didn’t feel threatened or harassed, so no man has the right to feel that on her behalf. PERIOD.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            The boss gets to decide because he’s the boss? He has a legal responsibility here, and for all we know Spicy Tuna wasn’t the only woman being harassed by the client.

          2. bamcheeks*

            Three two things being conflated here:

            1. Behaviour which is personally threatening/ objectifying to SpicyTuna
            2. Behaviour which is outside the organisation’s guidelines for how their staff should be treated.

            Sometimes poor or inappropriate behaviour will tick both boxes: it’ll be outside the scope of acceptable AND upset the target. Sometimes it will be only one, and it could be either one. In this case, it was behaviour which did not upset SpicyTuna, but which was outside the scope of acceptable for the organisation. Sometimes it’s the opposite: it’s hard to describe the behaviour itself in a way that sounds objectively wrong, but it’s still upsetting to the target. Policies against harassment should cover *both*, and that will entail judgments being made in both directions.

            So organisational responses should cover *both*. If it’s right on the borderline of unacceptable and thr target isn’t bothered, then that’s when you can maybe decide to accept the target’s judgment that it’s not too bad. But if it’s wholly, squarely, decisively in the “unacceptable” box, then yes, the organisation should address even if the target can handle it.

            1. Jennifer Strange*

              I think this is a really good way of looking at it. The organization is going to have its own guidelines on behavior from staff and clients and may require action even if the person who was targeted isn’t bothered. And it’s not because the organization doesn’t care about how that person feels, but because they recognize that other staff members seeing someone get treated in a manner outside of the organization’s own guidelines (and have nothing done about it) could give the impression that the organization doesn’t actually care about curbing poor behavior, and could make folks who ARE bothered by that treatment less likely to speak out about their discomfort.

          3. Not A Manager*

            “Would your response be the same? No? Think about why.”

            Because she’s not the boss, and he is?

            1. Victor WembanLlama*

              Do you really think bosses have an obligation to do something in Spicy Tuna’s case above? ONE instance of someone saying “hey babe” to a person he knows very well? Spicy Tuna and AAM are 100% right here

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                The boss is allowed to not want a client calling one of his employees (the single female employee at that!) “hey babe”. That’s not an unreasonable request, even if Spicy Tuna had no issue with it. Keep in mind, someone could have witnessed that exchange, noted the inaction, and decided that boss was okay with clients treating female employees differently than male employees. Suddenly boss has a reputation for running a boys club environment in his place of business.

                1. Victor WembanLlama*

                  I think it’s reasonable if Spicy Tuna’s boss had talked to ST after the meeting or something and asked her about it, how she felt, etc. But once she says it’s fine, we know each other, we’re pals, etc. I think it’s an overstep for the boss to insist/demand that he speak with the client in this case.

                2. Happy meal with extra happy*

                  @ Victor WembanLlama – this is still ignoring that the boss has a bigger picture legal requirement. I understand that this specific example is more difficult because it is relatively minor, but it can still be viewed as sexual harassment. What if a client was getting handsy with an employee, but the employee insisted that she was okay with it if it meant making a sale? That’s obviously a much clearer scenario, but I think it’s fine for a manager to have a strict rule re: absolutely no sexual harassment, even if it’s minor.

                3. Zona the Great*

                  FWIW, if I were another female employee in this workplace and found that my boss had no problem with their employees being called a sexist name, I’d quit.

      4. Jennifer Strange*

        The difference between your situation and the LW’s is that your boss actually had the authority (not to mention the responsibility!) to address the issue. It’s truly unfortunate it worked out the way it did, but a boss cannot allow sexism to go unchecked in their organization.

        1. Momma Bear*

          Agreed. While I’m sorry to hear that it didn’t go well for you, I also think that the manager was correct in addressing the problematic client. I once worked for a small company where I was the only woman on the team. At some point it was recognized that while I personally wasn’t bothered by certain behavior (mostly young and clueless) it would not fly long-term and the company wished to grow. Cue sensitivity and anti-discrimination training. It wasn’t just about me.

          Here LW’s partner wants to pick fights.

    6. doreen*

      A boss is different because the boss may be held responsible for not getting involved at some point in the future. It’s not a matter of your judgement not being trusted. I’ve known more than one supervisor ( mostly female) who didn’t do anything about an incident of sexual harassment they knew about , because the victim didn’t want anything done. Which is OK – until there’s another victim or until the original victim decides they want something done. And at that point the boss who didn’t get involved is possibly facing professional consequences or getting sued. Because if something had been done at the first offense , perhaps it would have been the last one. None of that applies to a spouse or partner , and I wouldn’t have been willing to risk losing my job or getting sued because you wanted nothing done.

    7. Colette*

      There’s a significant difference between your boss – who works for the company – taking action agains harassment and your boyfriend – who does not. Your boss has an obligation to shut down harassment, the same way he’d have to shut down someone coming in and using racial slurs, even if the recipient didn’t mind or want to make waves.

    8. boof*

      I think when it’s your boss involved it is different – your boss has every right to say potentially harassing behavior needs to stop unilaterally; maybe even an obligation to. It sucks that that that gave a ding to your income (temporarily?) but it’s also overall pretty strange that the client couldn’t handle not calling you baby, and maybe that shows your boss was right on their overall read of the situation. Impossible to say, though again, it’s very different when you are the one personally witnessing something + with authority to put a stop something vs a bystander hearing about something after the fact from the person it happened to.

  29. Tuesday Tacos*

    I agree with Alison about the domestic abuse hotline. I am sorry but your partner is not trying to stick up for YOU, he is trying to get this person in trouble because he dared to tread on his property (that being you). Please don’t stay in this relationship. I fear that his survival of domestic abuse has taught him the wrong lessons.

  30. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

    LW1, your partner is the man behind the toxic male feminist stereotype. You don’t have a work problem, you have a relationship problem. Avail yourself of any and all support resources you can, and get out of there. I wish you the best.

  31. Blue Pen*

    #3 – I don’t have much more advice other than what Alison offered here, but I just want to extend my sympathy.

    Although I haven’t been formally diagnosed with PMDD, and my experience ranges in severity from month to month, I know how bad it can get, and it *really* sucks. When it’s bad for me, I’ll get terrible insomnia for a couple days, thus affecting my alertness at work, concentration, moodiness, etc. My muscles/joints will be throbbing, as well, and I have thyroid disease, which can throw things out of whack even more. I haven’t shared that with my manager, but I’m wondering if I now should.

    I’m hoping it works out for you!

  32. Autumn*

    Regarding OP one. This is for the guys to help them understand how reporting s.harassment can go dramatically sideways. Imagine for a moment you are working on a job where any amount of alcohol is absolutely forbidden. But the thing is, it’s a high stress environment and the reason for the prohibition isn’t clear. You see a popular team member, call him Mike, taking a swig out of a bottle in his desk, you jokingly and openly call him on it, everyone laughs and it’s all done. But then over a few weeks you notice it happening more and some of Mike’s work output is suffering, you fix it for him, and warn him privately. Now he’s made a bigger mistake and if you don’t go through the reporting process it will come back to bite you. So you go and explain everything to HR or whatever manager and it all goes downhill. Everyone you’re working with thinks you reported Mike for “something silly” because they don’t know what went into it, they only know you called him out because of the bottle in his desk. Mike is a popular dude and his side of the story seems benign, and like you were overstepping or being too pedantic. Suddenly YOU are persona non grata and your work life and ability to function in this job has gone down the tubes. Mike on the other hand seems fine, nobody knows about the PIP he’s on or the other reasonable consequences. Nobody pushes back on his narrative of the situation either because that’s all private.

    This can and occasionally does happen to women who report s.harassment after having told the person publicly to stop. You, the victim wind up in the crosshairs.

  33. HonorBox*

    OP2 – I love the idea of respectfully challenging him. Both by telling him you’re not the right audience, and he’s doing more damage by undermining your manager by complaining to you and by not actually enacting change that he has the authority to.

    OP4 – I stepped into an untitled “interim” role when my former boss left our organization. While I didn’t have the formality of a title or pay increase, I did take on responsibilities that he had while we searched for his replacement. The fact that I had a couple of months of attending higher level meetings, overseeing financials, etc. put me in a great position to step up later. I was able to think about situations differently, understand projects more deeply, and see a larger picture. Stepping back is a challenge, but if you approach it with the mindset that you can now do your job more effectively because you have better understanding of the big picture, you’ll be able to do more and position yourself for future opportunities.

  34. Orange Cat Energy*

    #1

    Your partner saying you “enabled” your colleague to sexually harass you is actually your partner accusing you of liking your colleagues “attention” and having a consensual affair. He’s threatening to tell your boss because he’s actually trying to catch you in an “affair” at work and “out” you to your boss and get you in trouble, not because he actually wants to stick up for you.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS ALL OF THIS

      He’s blaming you not only for not handling it to his standards, but for “enjoying it”.

  35. HB*

    “He is a domestic abuse survivor”

    And he’s continuing the abuse. He’s found a way to justify it to himself, but intent doesn’t matter. Behavior does.

  36. ZSD*

    #3 I would describe it as a “medical issue” rather than a “medication issue.” The latter could lead someone to speculate about the type of medication and land on something they have even more biased assumptions against. “Medical issue” is vague enough that it could be *anything*, so I think people are less likely to make assumptions.

    1. H3llifIknow*

      Good catch! You’re right. If I heard “medication” I think at least subconsciously my mind would go to mental health meds. I’d hope it wouldn’t affect her at work, but I feel like it could definitely have management side eyeing any little thing she does that seems “off” to them and assuming “oh yeah her meds are acting up,” or something.

      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        Steroids are a non-MH medication that are prescribed for good reasons, but that can affect one’s mood in an angry direction. Just in case you ever need an example.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          Meds that affect blood sugar can also indirectly affect mood because, well, blood sugar. So there’s another example if you need more than one.

  37. Ex-Prof*

    ” It’s embarrassing a man has to stick up for women’s rights.”

    I would expect any man to do so.

    Obviously in this case, that would mean respecting your right to deal with the harassment situation as you see fit.

    LW #1, I’m sorry you’ve been let down by all these people: your harasser, the coworkers that made jokes about it, and your partner.

    It sounds like this was the first time you had told your partner about the harassment. Your choice, of course, but if that’s the case, think about why you didn’t tell him about a major difficulty that you were dealing with in a daily life. It suggests you didn’t expect support from him, and did expect an angry outburst and a lack of respect for your ability to handle the situation.

    Now that he’s laid hands on you in anger, it will be easier for him to do it again. I’m sorry.

    2. Manic Sunday*

      Ugh, seriously. “It’s embarrassing a member of a dominant social group has to stick up for the rights of the oppressed.” Sir, it’s embarrassing that you don’t understand you just told on yourself.

  38. cmdrspacebabe*

    #4: I mentor a co-op student who had a great way of using that stretch experience. After finishing covering a higher-level staffer, the student worked out a comparison list – all the things that were standard tasks at their student level, and all the new stuff they’d taken over for the absent colleague. That gave them a strong idea of which skills and experience they needed to focus on to be a competitive candidate for permanent roles at the higher level, so they used it to a) set their sights on the next attainable step and b) work out a development plan to get there.

  39. TheLoaf*

    LW1: you’ve already received a lot of comments but I want to support your handling of the situation with the colleague. You did a great job and have already done so much for anyone who may encounter him in the future. You are on your way out, so you don’t need to do anything else if you don’t want to. But kudos to you for not letting the colleague get away with this behavior! He totally FAFO’d :)

  40. Parenthesis Guy*

    LW #2: I feel sympathy for the top manager. People at the beginning of their careers think that higher-ups have a huge amount of power and can dictate whatever they like to people at lower levels probably because they’re at the receiving end of these dictats. But there’s a limit to how much firing they can actually do, especially when it gets to people at higher levels.

    At a certain point, it takes significant energy and capital to remove someone from a position and change an entire process that the higher-ups just may not have. They know things aren’t working well, but they also know any change they implement will make things worse. It’s even a bigger burden knowing that it’s their responsibility to fix, but they can’t.

    But, at least they get to console themselves with a good old fashioned money fight at the end of the day. Which leads to the solution. Next time he complains, tell him he needs to do so at happy hour, and he’s buying all the drinks.

    1. Quercus*

      I agree we don’t know (andthe LW might not either) how much power Michael actually has to discipline other execs. Even if he does theoretically supervise them, most CEOs would want to be involved. And given this CEO we know picked at least one favorite to elevate, my guess is that he won’t be dispassionate and hands off about disciplining other executives.

      Also agree that while Michael may not be able to change some things, at least he’s got more money to buy drinks.

  41. PaulaMomOfTwo*

    LW #1 I really feel for you. It’s hard to terminate a relationship, but there are so many red flags. Truly, I doubt your partner was a victim of domestic abuse, it’s more likely he was the domestic abuser. They often reframe things in their heads if they aren’t deliberately out and out lying. I found it helpful to read books on dealing with narcissistic personalities when I was preparing / planning my exit from a bad relationship. I don’t know if that applies in your case but wanted to mention it if it could.

  42. Menace to Sobriety*

    OMG LW1: Your partner, the one person who should always have your back and your best interests at heart… SHOVED YOU. SCREAMED AT YOU. CALLED YOU NAMES AND BERATED YOU. You handled the work abuser and are getting out of that organization; now how are you going to handle THIS abuser and get out? Because…you know you need to do that, right? The first time someone puts an angry hand on you (whether you are male or female) HAS to be the last. Do not give him more opportunities to control and belittle you. Please please seek help and get out for your own safety.

    Good Luck and Godspeed.

  43. Rex Libris*

    OP#1. Your partner may be a domestic abuse survivor, but they’re also a domestic abuser. They do not respect or support women. If they did, they’d start with you.

    Your situation sounds controlling and dangerous to me, and I’d strongly consider planning a safe exit. I believe there is some good advice on doing that on Captain Awkward’s blog. Also, if you want a low key way to find local agencies or resources that can help, try the reference desk at your local public library. You can always say you want a list you can give to someone you’re concerned about, if that’s more comfortable. Sadly, they probably already have a list put together, or the phone numbers memorized, because it comes up a lot.

    I truly hope you’re okay, and land in a better place.

  44. Survivor*

    #1-

    I am so sorry you are going through this. Both at work, and at home! Just know that it is not okay for your husband to belittle you. It’s not okay for him to yell at you. It’s not okay for him to shove you. I recommend reading Why Does He Do That. It’s available online for free as a pdf, but you can also get it at a library or bookstore. Please keep any thoughts or plans of leaving to yourself. Do not tell your husband. It’s safest for you for him to know you’ve left after you’re gone. My ex was “only” emotionally abusive, but I instinctively knew it was safer for me to play nice and act cooperative until he moved out. Then I changed the locks and let him know I had a lawyer.

    Hugs if you want them. You do NOT deserve to be treated this way, at home or at work. It will be hard, but you WILL get through this. My life is 100 times better than it was when I was with my abusive ex.

  45. Jax Teller's Ex GF*

    LW #1

    Please leave him, and be safe. Relationships are NOT baseball; one strike, he’s out. Shoving is *putting his hands on you in a rage*. If you stay, there WILL be a next time, and it might be much worse than shoving. You deserve to feel safe in your relationship, from both verbal and physical abuse. You deserve to be respected, appreciated, and loved, and all of his behavior you listed is the exact opposite of that. Don’t let him convince you it will never happen again. You deserve WAY better than this.

    This is coming from someone who did get out, after an eerily similar encounter. My (now) ex-boyfriend shoved me in an unprovoked jealous, possessive rage. The next time we talked, I made him meet me in a public place with lots of witnesses, since I didn’t feel safe inviting him back to my home. I told him that putting his hands on me was unforgivable. His response? He actually doubled down and said he was “holding himself back” because I “deserved way worse” (?!?). Not even exaggerating. Bullet absolutely dodged.

    1. ferrina*

      Relationships are NOT baseball

      This. I stayed in a couple relationships way too long because I thought I needed a good enough reason to leave. If I told my partner I was unhappy and wanted to leave, they berated me that it “wasn’t fair” because I “didn’t give them a chance.” The thing is….it doesn’t have to be “fair”. There is no “good enough reasons” checklist (and if there was, ‘He once put hands on me’ is definitely on there). You get to make decisions based on indescribable feelings because relationships are about feelings. Feelings are inherently subjective. There will never be an objective list for romantic relationship because romance inherently subjective.

      Also- Jax Teller’s Ex GF, your ex sounds absolutely horrible and so glad you got out! Very smart to meet with him in a public place! Dodged that bullet like your name was Neo.

    2. ferrina*

      Relationships are NOT baseball

      This. I stayed in a couple relationships way too long because I thought I needed a good enough reason to leave. If I told my partner I was unhappy and wanted to leave, they berated me that it “wasn’t fair” because I “didn’t give them a chance.” The thing is….it doesn’t have to be “fair”. There is no “good enough reasons” checklist (and if there was, ‘He once put hands on me’ is definitely on there). You get to make decisions based on indescribable feelings because relationships are about feelings. Feelings are inherently subjective. There will never be an objective list for romantic relationship because romance inherently subjective.

      Also- Jax Teller’s Ex GF, your ex sounds absolutely horrible and so glad you got out! Very smart to meet with him in a public place! Dodged that bullet like your name was Neo.

  46. Muffy*

    #2
    I think Michael is a mole. He’s looking for intel, something he can bring to someone he wants to get in good with ( like a cat dropping dead mice at someone’s feet). I’ve worked w this type. They want to either make themselves look good or to make you look bad.

  47. TSC*

    The phrase “rather than squeezing my shoulder in passing” really threw me, as if that’s an acceptable way to interact with your coworkers. Yes, it’s preferable to grazing or groping a breast, but it’s still WAY too intimate. When I was in my 20s (and lacked the confidence to confront it), there was a guy who did that to all the women (and only the women, and they were all young while he was much older) as he passed by. It made my skin crawl then, and makes my skin crawl now just thinking about it. I wonder how much this LW has normalized mistreatment from men — and hope she gets the support she needs now for the current situation, and can build the confidence she needs to advocate for herself effectively in the future. It’s hard out there!

  48. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    1. If you’re in the UK there’s a very good service available at most pharmacies and doctor’s surgeries to assist you in getting out of an abusive situation – be it physical, emotional or financial abuse. Most chemists will have a sign up saying they are a safe place and can aid you.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

        It doesn’t have a specific name in my area but there are posters up all over the place and I can vouch that if you mention to a pharmacist or doctors surgery reception that you need help with an abusive situation you will practically immediately get a nice quiet safe room, a cup of tea, a non judgemental ear and access to a whole slew of resources and assistance.

        The NHS has its flaws but in this it is really good. And I sadly know that first hand.

  49. Endless TBR Pile*

    I do realize the first letter will take over the comments. However…

    OP1 firstly, I think how you handled the work situation was absolutely fine. There’s always “more” you can do, right? But at what point is it detrimental to you, yourself, to make a bigger deal of something than to let the “minor” transgressions slide? It’s a juggling act most men don’t understand, and most women deal with on a constant scale. I’m sorry you’ve dealt with this at work, I’m glad you are moving on.

    End your relationship. HE PUT HANDS ON YOU. HE BERATED YOU. HE PHYSICALLY AND VERBALLY ABUSED YOU. I’m not discounting you when I say this, but I’m doubting your partner’s truthfulness about the situation he survived. Either there’s much more to the story, or he’s internalized his abuse and is now operating with a “I was hurt so I must hurt” mentality. It’s not healthy, it’s not safe. Get out.

  50. Medium Sized Manager*

    Re LW5: how would this look on a resume? I stepped up for my boss while she was on maternity, but the duties were split between me and her manager, so no change in title. I hesitate to say that I was Acting Llama Director when I didn’t do the full scope of her work, but I also acted in her place for a lot of things.

  51. Jack McCullough*

    #1. Sure, the partner may be an abuse survivor, but he is also an abuser. Get away from him now. This will not get better.

  52. Dust Bunny*

    LW1 I am not telling you to end this but, personally, I would not stay with someone who treated me this way. You don’t support someone who was harassed by yelling at them about how they handled it!

    I sympathize with his being a DA survivor but it doesn’t give him the right to mistreat you in turn. I’ll be generous and chalk it up to his needing a lot more counseling to tame his demons, but you don’t have to ride that out with him.

    (I also think you handled this fine, and you’re on your way out and on to better things.)

  53. jvf*

    Alison, could you please put a trigger or content warning for DV at the beginning of this post? Thank you!

  54. LindyB.*

    This reminded me of the time, when working in a hospital in the NICU. I had a couple a manager, a clinical nurse leader and several coworkers who were basically sexually harassing me via my son. My son is an adult. He’s also a firefighter. Yes, he’s handsome and in very nice shape. My coworkers would “jokingly” tell me to ask my son to send me pictures of him with his shirt off to show them. The clinical nurse leader would tell me how sexy my son was. And the worst was the manager, who after seeing my son on the unit doing a transport with other firefighters, told me she needed to go to confession for LUST after seeing my son. I am retired now due to disability and still to this day, kick myself for not reporting all of them to HR. They were all women saying this like this to me, his mother. Can you even imagine if a man would have said this to his female coworker?? I bet he would have been fired on the spot. UGH.

  55. nerdchild87*

    Social Worker here. OP 1, your partner has gone from a domestic violence survivor to a domestic abuser himself. If you want to explore this further read “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. This will escalate, and I think if you take an objective look at your situation this is not the first time he has been disrespectful towards you, even if it’s the first time he’s been physically abusive. Please, please get out. You deserve so much better.

  56. Ancamna*

    LW#3 – I hope you’re working with a psychologist or other specialist specifically for ADHD meds, and if you’re not then I recommend you find someone (and not one of those online mental health companies). I don’t have PMDD but my ADHD took a while and lots of trial runs to find the best medication and dosage and I ran into a lot of side effects before moving from my regular doctor to a specialist. The specialist helped me narrow down my options a lot better and – most importantly – knows how menstrual cycles (even without PMDD) can affect medication uptake. She’s worked with me to find good “booster” meds that I can take specifically on days when I need them so that I have much better consistent control of my ADHD. Since PMDD can have a strong mental health component to it, a specialist might also be able to offer “as needed” medication that takes the edge of some of those symptoms, and will better understand how they interact with your ADHD meds.

  57. tabloidtainted*

    #1: I can see how it could be triggering for a DV survivor to feel that sexual harassment has gone unpunished, but it seems your relationship had run its course before he shoved you and berated you. You didn’t share the harassment until it was well in the past and you were leaving your job…maybe you suspected he would react poorly.

  58. Nomic*

    OP1,
    I’m a gay man sharing a similar experience. Being a man in an abuse situation is different (there is probably less of a physical disparity) so this may not apply to you.

    Twenty years ago I was in a relationship with a very emotional man. I put up with his verbal beratement and shouting and throwing things, and it took him shoving me for me to really take a look at the situation and realize all the abuse I had been willing to accept for the relationship. It took him finally hitting me (“I DIDN’T HIT YOU, I ONLY SHOVED YOU”, as he insisted) for me to sit down and realize that this wasn’t the first issue, but the last.

    I wish you the best whatever you decide to do. This is your decision to make, not the commentators.

  59. MyOxygenMaskFirst*

    OP #1, you are not alone and YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT!

    In case it can help you, I’ll share a slightly parallel story of my own:

    I was about 3 months into a new job and it was during the pandemic so my husband and I often wound up listening in on each other’s meetings (small apt with desks in the same room). One day when I hung up from another frustrating meeting with my boss, my husband said, “Wow, your boss is sexist.”

    I’d had no idea. It took someone with more distance and more objectivity, as well as far less to lose, to help me realize what was happening. (Obviously you knew you were being harassed, but that doesn’t mean you automatically know how to handle it! It’s scary and humiliating whether you know it in the moment or realize it later.)

    And it wasn’t just me. A Black colleague had come to me a couple weeks prior with a similar story of a friend telling her this same boss was racist after overhearing their meeting. (I knew he was racist before I knew he was sexist, I knew his bias was affecting a colleague, and I did nothing. Even knowing someone else was affected didn’t make me suddenly know how to help her from my position of subordination.)

    We both reported the biases to the company before we quit. Guess what the company did? Nothing. He kept his job while we were told, verbatim: “Maybe you misunderstood him.”

    You are not responsible for fixing sexists. You are only responsible for protecting yourself, both in the moment and over the long term. If you reach a point where you are comfortable, capable, and powerful enough to do something that reaches beyond you, that’s amazing. Do it then. But make sure you’ve put your own oxygen mask on first.

    I hope your partner is acting this way because he loves you and doesn’t know how to react to his feelings of powerlessness. But no matter why he’s acting badly, please take care of yourself first. Get space from him if you need it and if you’re willing to discuss the situation with him, make sure you’re safe and protected.

    In solidarity!

  60. Manic Sunday*

    OP1 – I survived an abusive marriage. It started out with behavior a lot like what you describe your partner doing/saying, rooted in beliefs very similar to those your partner expressed. I don’t really have the emotional spoons right now to get into the ways your partner’s behavior is unacceptable and abusive, or what might be motivating it; other commenters have that covered. I do have something else to add, and I hope you’ll bear with me through these long paragraphs because I promise I’m going somewhere useful:

    Your colleague’s harassment was *already* reported to the directors. He has *already* been told to stop. Your employer knows, and they decided not to fire him or his enablers. What more does your partner think will be achieved by reporting it again? Why would the company take it any more seriously now than they did before, now that you’re on your way out? And why on earth would they be interested in what a departing employee’s partner has to say?

    Your partner is incorrect, irrational, and ridiculous, which obviously are the least of his failings. But I’m spending time on them to emphasize that YOU are wise and savvy, you are RIGHT, and you have been all along. You’ve handled a terrible workplace situation remarkably well. If your partner had known about this earlier and bullied you into handling it differently, the outcome would not have been better, and I know that because you obviously believed it at the time and I believe in your ability to correctly assess the situation. Your gut can be trusted. And I badly wanted to tell you that, because the most valuable lesson I learned from my marriage was the value of self-trust. It’s the secret weapon that will get you out of this relationship safely. Good luck to you.

    1. Christina*

      I know this is buried at the bottom, but this is such an important perspective. So much of abuse is telling you how incompetent (my abuser liked to use that word a lot) you are.

      You are smart and capable and make good choices that only you can know are the best for you and your situation. Many people will try to tell you what you should do or should have done or what they would do, but no one knows you’re situation better than you.

  61. Blinded By the Gaslight*

    I just can’t get over the image of a man shoving his girlfriend and screaming at her, “YOU’RE NOT AN ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN!” The irony would be funny if it wasn’t so utterly goddamned depressing.

    Dump the motherfucker already, OP1. You deserve better.

  62. Susannah*

    Alison gives GREAT advice, but the answer to the person filling in for someone else’s maternity leave was absolutely perfect. What a great way to looks at it – that the LW had the opportunity to learn more, get advanced experience, and will now not only be a more skilled junior level employee but will have more credentials to advance.

  64. Dog momma*

    Is he an abuse survivor.. or just result of strict parenting.. there’s a difference & since he’s off the wall about her experience, he could be lying to keep her on edge, or confused..now feeling sorry for him bc of what happened to him.
    NOT giving him a pass by any means, bc if she loses her job he’s further isolating her and she might not be able to leave. I know we have to take LW’s word that he’s been abused, but this is just a thought bc of his extreme reaction to her venting. And he shoved her…once..next time he’s going to hit her. please leave this relationship asap. You are not safe LW.

  65. Been there*

    It was so impressive how LW 1 managed to shut down the sexual harassment from this coworker without help from HR. Not that it would have been wrong for her to get their help, but as she knows, that’s not always the smart play. The guy’s apparently an a-hole still, but she should feel proud that he’s no longer a sexually harassing a-hole – and he may well think twice about pulling it on another woman.

Comments are closed.