mysterious visitor won’t leave our cafe, correcting coworker’s Spanish mistake, and more by Alison Green on January 13, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Unauthorized visitor won’t leave our cafe I work for a university research department, and we have run into an issue with a stranger repeatedly remaining in our office cafe/kitchen space, and it is proving surprisingly difficult to resolve. The building we are in houses many departments that don’t work with undergrads, but do work with graduate students, faculty, and other affiliates and guests. The building is not owned by the university, and building management is across the street in a different building. The building is unlocked 8-5 Monday-Friday but requires fob access at all other times. All of the office suites require fobs to get in, but the cafe and bathrooms are outside of locked areas, and the cafe is an open area without a door, so there’s no way to prevent people from entering that space once in the building. Since early November, we’ve had an issue with a youngish man appearing in the cafe some days. He has a computer and will get lunch and return, so initially we assumed he was a grad student. When he ignored requests to stop watching videos out loud in the space (he would stop for a minute or so, then go back to his prior behavior), we started to get suspicious. I tried to politely ask who he worked with here or what other building department he works for, or even just his name, and he evaded the questions, by speaking quietly, repeatedly claiming he’d already told me, and mumbling the requested information in sentences that were otherwise clear and understandable. As a guy under five feet tall, intimidating authority is just about the last thing I’ll ever be described as, so I quickly hit a wall. My supervisor and several other staff members at various times also asked him for information and to be respectful of the space and or to leave, but no one got any further, though it never escalated in a hostile or loud way either. We reached out to building management and they said they’d send security, but that never happened. We’ve continued to spot him sporadically and heard reports from other groups of him pulling similar behavior, and always naming a department not on that floor as the one he worked for. Building management did speak to him at one point, and he claimed to work for us. Building management is nice but often slow to respond to messages, so we cannot easily summon them every time we see him. Grad students have also reported seeing him around over the weekend sometimes, when they’ve been in to work on things. This past weekend, my supervisor, otherwise on parental leave, stopped by to get something and spotted him but chose not to engage since she had her kids with her. We are a bunch of social scientists and well aware of not wanting to come off as profiling a Black man for being in a space, but at this point it is an issue. Practically, the biggest problem is that in the time it takes to go get management or someone else for help, he’s able to slip away or leave until the next time we spot him, and engaging with him is just going in circles, never getting enough information to get further, or to even verify if he belong in the building. It’s not clear if he’s even disruptive in a way that would justify calling the police. What should we do? Do you have to do anything? It doesn’t sound like he’s causing problems, other than sitting in a cafe. I’m not suggesting you should completely ignore your security rules, which presumably exist for a reason, but you’ve tried to address it and gotten nowhere, and it doesn’t sound like you’re in a position where you absolutely must take additional action. Is it an option to just let your building management know the whole history — including the fact that at least once he lied about who he works for, as well as that he’s been there on weekends when the building was locked — and then leave it in their court to decide what to do? If he’s being disruptive or refusing direct requests (like to stop playing videos out loud), you can call campus security, but otherwise this seems like an issue for the building management rather than any of you. If you feel they’re not handling it with an appropriate level of urgency, the next step is to be clearer with them about exactly why it needs more urgency; right now they’re probably proceeding as if it’s a minor issue because it’s not clear that it requires more than that. 2. Should I have corrected my coworker’s very funny Spanish mistake? I have an extremely low-stakes but very funny question for you. My team consists of five monolingual English speakers, though a couple of us know some words or phrases in other languages, including myself and my coworker, “Mary.” Mary likes to throw around the few Spanish phrases she knows for flavor, and usually uses them correctly, but today she goofed quite badly. In Spanish, “happy new year” translates to “feliz año nuevo” (note the tilde over the “n”). Mary, however, wished another coworker “feliz ano nuevo” (no tilde) in our team’s group chat. This translates to “happy new anus.” I said nothing. I laughed myself to tears in my home office, but I didn’t correct Mary. I figured everyone would know what she meant, and correcting her would be unduly embarrassing. Was that the right thing to do? Is there a way to bring something like that up without embarrassing someone? Do you have a warm relationship with Mary? Is she someone with a sense of humor who can laugh at herself? If so, I can think of no greater gift than letting her know she wished your coworker a happy new anus, and I don’t think you need to tiptoe around it at all. If Mary is not someone who can laugh at herself … well, in that case I might have even more desire to tell her what she said, but from an office politics perspective it may be wiser to just leave it alone. 3. My coworkers won’t stop singing This is probably not a problem that can really be solved, but it’s driving me insane and maybe you have some insight I’m not thinking of. I have two coworkers who wander in and out of my work area frequently throughout the day who are constantly singing. Both actual song lyrics, and wordless opera-style harmonising. I would find it annoying even if they were good singers, but I’m sorry to say that they’re not, which makes it even worse. They drive me absolutely bonkers because I can’t stand noise while I’m trying to work. Because of where my desk is located, I can’t use headphones (I sit at the front desk despite receptionist duties not being part of my job description, which is a whole other letter). Neither of them is the type of person I feel I could earnestly ask to stop. Asking them would almost certainly result in them a) arguing with me and/or b) singing even louder at me. Plus, I don’t want to be seen as the office grinch. Is there anything at all that I can do about this? Someone singing in the hallways while other people were trying to focus was one of the earliest things I had to address as a new manager! It remains fascinating to me that some people don’t realize that’s not okay to do in an area where other people are trying to concentrate on work. In a normal situation you could simply say, “Hey, it’s hard to focus when you’re singing in this space! Sorry to ask, but could you not sing when you’re walking through here?” But since you think these coworkers would argue with you about it (WTF?) or just sing more loudly (also WTF?), your only other option is explain to a manager that it’s disrupting your work and ask them to intervene. Most managers are likely to ask if you’ve tried speaking to the coworkers yourself first, so you should preemptively explain why you think doing that will escalate things. (And for what it’s worth, any manager should be pretty alarmed to hear that one of their employees would fight someone over a request like this, but the fact that this dynamic exists in your workplace in the first place makes me wonder if that will actually be the case or not.) Related: my employee is a terrible singer 4. Best way to phrase an unusual dietary requirement I have recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that requires me to avoid fatty foods. As in, my body has issues digesting these foods, so I should not eat them. At home, it’s not really an inconvenience — while the diagnosis is new, I have had these issues since birth, so I have always avoided certain foods such as cream, mayo, etc. as I knew they made me sick. However, it is a much bigger problem when eating out and at work events as I am not sure how to communicate my dietary needs. (I find even dishes that would be completely fine if I cooked them at home with minimal olive oil are often made with a lot of butter or other fat in commercial settings.) In the past, I just tried to make do, but now that I have a diagnosis, I would like to be able to ask for food that meets my medical needs like anyone else and not be sick after work dinners. I have tried just asking for “low-fat” but as a petite woman, it has led to some inappropriate comments suggesting I “should not be trying to lose weight” or even that I have an eating disorder! What wording would you recommend? Am I better off giving a list of specific ingredients (“no mayo, cream, butter, or full-fat dairy” which are the main culprits in my experience)? Or just get the vegan option, which allows me to avoid most of these, even if it’s likely to miss instances where, say, the cook just uses a lot of oil? Is there a better way to phrase it? Give the list of specific ingredients, since not only is “low-fat” leading to some weird misunderstandings, but you also risk people defining “low-fat” differently than you do. It’s safer to simply say, “I have a medical condition that means I can’t digest mayo, cream, butter, or full-fat dairy.” 5. Applying to follow an ex-manager to her new company I’ve had a fantastic work relationship with my now-ex supervisor (let’s call her Xena) who recently left for a higher-ranking (but not senior leadership) job at another organization in the same field. Xena gave me a hint about an opening in her new department, a position where I’d be reporting to her again — which I’d like very much. Do you have any advice about deploying a recommendation from a colleague who’s brand-new at the organization I’d be applying to? If I’m asked why I want to apply for the job, would it be a bad move to mention wanting to work with Xena as one of my leading motivations? How much weight is the organization likely to give to her recommendation in the first-round sorting of applications? Her recommendation is likely to carry a great deal of weight as the hiring manager. But don’t frame wanting to work for her again as one of your leading motivations. Mention it, yes, but you don’t want to sound like it’s the primary driver of your interest — since if they see that, they’re likely to immediately start worrying about what will happen if Xena leaves later this year. Focus on other reasons the job appeals to you, and keep the mention of Xena as more of an aside. You may also like:a coworker is harassing my neighbor (who is having chemo)our cleaner pressures me to stay late with her because she fears our workplace is hauntedcoworker's wife works remotely from our non-remote office { 655 comments }
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 12:30 am As someone that does a decent amount of food/catering ordering for meetings that require taking dietary restrictions into account, just saying I have high/low fat restrictions/requirements is meaningless, even though I want to be helpful and meet your needs. I don’t know what that means and how to check for it on menus. It does not give me the information I need to work with, I would suggest saying high/low fat giving specific common ingredients list. “no mayo, cream, butter, or full-fat dairy” which are the main culprits in my experience)” But is reduced fat dairy okay, even if they use a ton of it? I could imagine a cook/restaurant substituting full fat dairy for extra reduced fat dairy, but does that equal the same results in terms of fat? say does 1 cup of full fat dairy = 2 cups of 50% reduced fat dairy? But based on this comment I might even add oil to the list, or ask oil on the side, for salads. “Or just get the vegan option, which allows me to avoid most of these, even if it’s likely to miss instances where, say, the cook just uses a lot of oil?” Is beef/meat okay? In addition to the high/low fat requirements with common ingredients I would provide some suggestions of commonish items that are generally safe to eat. Like a salad with plain, salt/pepper check, oil/vinaigrette dressing on the side, or plain chicken sandwich with just salt/pepper, plain burger. Even with the common ingredients list it seems like there are some ingredients that are generally fine except when used in excessive amounts? I say this because often times when ordering places will list their main toppings/ingredients but won’t include the sub ingredients like seasonings or butters/oils used on meat.
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 12:32 am Edit: “plain salt/pepper check” should be “plain salt/pepper chicken.”
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 2:10 am I’ve found that lots of caterers want a discussion with me about my food requirements, but I don’t think OP is placed to do that. In their shoes I might give a list of good substitutes alongside the no-nos.
JSPA* January 13, 2025 at 5:17 am “I have problems with rich foods, which of your menu items are lean, and can I get them sauce-free” is what my parent and grandparent and uncle with (hereditary) gall bladder issues used to ask the server, and I can vouch it still works (though these days I rely on digestive enzyme pills to handle a multitude of related issues). This still requires tasting and assessing, to know how much of the item you can get away with–but as a starting point, it’s more useful than something that can be confused with “on a diet, don’t want simple carbs either.”
M* January 13, 2025 at 5:49 am Yeah, came to the comments to say: “no [list of common dairy fats]” with no additional context is often just going to get the kitchen substituting in quite a lot of olive oil. While it’s more medical information than you strictly *have* to disclose at work, I’d probably say something like “I have a digestive disorder that means I have to keep my fat intake low. Please keep dressings/sauces on the side and no dishes with [list]”.
Dawn* January 13, 2025 at 10:31 am Yeah, this. I’d probably order/request a salad of some sort with dressing on the side, or a sandwich with no sauces; those are both really easy to police and aren’t going to feel too complicated to anyone.
Manders* January 13, 2025 at 8:10 am I worked with a woman who had a ton of dietary restrictions. She made laminated cards that she could hand to the server to be given to the chef that listed items that she could not eat. It worked really well.
M2* January 13, 2025 at 8:44 am I have a relative and a colleague who says if we go out to eat for no oil and no butter usually they asked for steamed vegetables and fish or chicken. Or they get a salad with dressing on the side with a protein. When we cater meals we have a variety lots of salads or have people with speciality pick something they want and just order a meal for them. Say exactly what they can use when going out to eat- restaurants know and understand this. My relative can have no oil at all and she’s very clear on that and only certain spices so she tells them and she’s never had an issue. I have some dietary issues too so something’s will just get rice with steamed vegetables or a nice salad. I am very clear in what I need. Just be clear. Good luck!
LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow* January 13, 2025 at 10:13 am Last restaurant fish I had, I think they used an equal volume of butter and fish.
Lydia* January 13, 2025 at 10:59 am Yes, fish and butter seem to go hand-in-hand at a lot of restaurants.
Six for the truth over solace in lies* January 13, 2025 at 7:22 pm Watching a chef make restaurant-style roasted winter vegetables made clear to me why my roasted vegetables, while plenty tasty, were never *as* tasty. Salt by the handful and enough butter to slosh around on the tray. Heavenly, but more fat and sodium than you would ever guess from an order of Brussels sprouts, onions, and sweet potatoes. And they didn’t taste especially oily/fatty, though they definitely were.
Random Biter* January 13, 2025 at 1:26 pm The restaurant I worked at broiled their fish in a combination of butter/lemon juice and water. They also brushed steaks on the grill with butter. So even if you’re having a dish you don’t think contains butter it’s always a good idea to tell your server.
Six for the truth over solace in lies* January 13, 2025 at 7:25 pm Also a big problem for people with a dairy allergy (versus lactose intolerance) because in some restaurants giving everything a melted butter wash is so ingrained that they forget it counts as dairy. Coworker of mine had to really grill servers when they said something was dairy-free for that reason.
kiki* January 13, 2025 at 9:18 am Yeah, even putting aside the invasive responses of coworkers, asking for items to be “low fat” in a restaurant isn’t specific enough for the folks preparing food to really act on effectively. Additionally, a lot of restaurant food is prepared with more butter and oil than home cooks use, lending to the great flavor. Asking for a lower use of fats than the kitchen would typically use will likely still be quite fatty. If LW is able to specify specific ingredients to leave out entirely, like butter, sour cream, etc., that is probably the most effective way to order. The specificity will also probably help reduce coworker commentary— asking to opt out of specific ingredients will seem more like a medical dietary accommodation than a diet for weight loss. (To be clear, it’s rude of folks to comment on food choices even if it were weight loss motivated).
Bike Shorts* January 13, 2025 at 9:43 am Restaurants do not usually carry items like reduced-fat dairy or mayo. If it’s not in any of their recipes, it’s not going to be in the kitchen. That being said, being specific about the problem and the potential solutions is much better than a list of “no’s” in my experience (if that list isn’t exhaustive). Saying “no mayo, no dairy,” leaves fried foods, foods sautéed in a bunch of olive oil, and salads drenched in a boatload of oily dressing. Calling ahead (earlier that day or the day before – not during lunch or dinner) and talking to a manager/chef is your best bet. They can ask follow up questions, come up with a plan that will actually work for you, and be ready for your visit. I know it doesn’t seem like a big ask to “just” make something simple and oil free, but during meal service, a restaurant is really only prepared to efficiently serve the items on the menu. Making something totally different is actually quite challenging. It usually involves pulling someone off their assigned station. All restaurants should be happy to do so for a customer’s needs, but you can also prepare them for the best outcome by calling ahead.
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 10:37 am “All restaurants should be happy to do so for a customer’s needs, but you can also prepare them for the best outcome by calling ahead.” Eh idk about that, I think most restaurants will do it, but I don’t think it necessarily means they have to be happy about it. It is more work and stress. I know it seems like restaurants are there to cater/make things to order for peoples needs/wants but that is not really the case. They are usually there to provide the food they make how they make it for the most part. It is still their reputation on the line. A person goes in and asks for a plain (or even just salt/pepper) chicken breast with steamed veggies that is not on the menu, and then is disappointed because it does not taste good, or even if it tastes good it is not the amazing earth shattering experience people have hyped up about this restaurant. Well the restaurant didn’t put plain chicken breast/steamed veggies on the menu because they knew they couldn’t/didn’t know how to make it taste good, especially if they can’t use the usual/normal amount of fat/ingredients in it.
HigherEdEscapee* January 13, 2025 at 11:56 am This is what I came here to say. When I was working in higher ed, I had a visiting scholar who had a very similar set of dietary needs. He emailed them to me in advance and I scouted a restaurant that could potentially work while he was on campus for his lecture and visit. I called at an off time, spoke with the manager and asked if it was something they could handle. The chef called me back and asked a few more questions, and affirmed they they could do it. I made the reservation, and my boss and the visitor had a really good meal there. The chef even came out to check on them during the meal and they were both delighted. LW may not always have the ability to plan this way, but the list I received from my visitor was basically, “these are things I cannot have, these are things that work well as substitutions, these are things that I enjoy.” It was as concise a list as he could make it, but it worked. He too had issues with fats as well as certain meats, spices, and a few vegetables. Good luck, LW.
Ihmmy* January 13, 2025 at 10:02 am picking up on this because the OP may benefit from checking out the gallbladder subreddit for restaurant recommendations, recipes, etc. as well. I had to do ultra low fat while waiting for gallbladder removal surgery and told coworkers and friends I needed to stick to about 5-10g fat per meal which is superduper low. Thankfully a lot of chain restaurants have nutritional information you can research beforehand to see if there are a few options at venues.
SuprisinglyADHD* January 13, 2025 at 10:23 am I don’t have experience with catering/restaurant ordering, but if I was making dinner for a friend with a similar restriction, I would offer grilled, seasoned (ie salt, pepper, herbs and spices, NOT marinated) meat and veggies, with the sauces and toppings on the side. Could that be a common enough dish that requesting it wouldn’t be surprising to the kitchen?
Dawn* January 13, 2025 at 2:16 pm Marinades are fine, just don’t use marinades containing oil. Try this one: 1/2 cup soy sauce or tamari 1/3 cup nutritional yeast 2 tbsp maple syrup 1 tsp liquid smoke
Christine* January 13, 2025 at 10:32 pm I agree that vegan doesn’t mean low fat. Avocado, nuts, seeds, soy, oils, meat and dairy substitutes – all can make a vegan meal high fat.
Riley* January 13, 2025 at 12:36 am Letter 1: Yes, she has to do something. This is an access restricted building on weekends, and the visitor has been seen there on weekends. This is not a situation where he can just stay as long as he doesn’t bother anyone. What is the tailgating policy? Do people just hold the door for whoever is following them when they fob in? That should stop, as a first step. They could also implement a practice of empowering people at the, say, manager level who can ask to see people’s fobs outside of normal working hours. No fob = you find someone to vouch for you or you get escorted out of the building (there would need to be consequences for vouching for someone you don’t actually know).
Person from the Resume* January 13, 2025 at 12:45 am Him being spotted in the building on weekends actually makes me wonder if the guy is sleeping in the building overnight. But I do think the responsibility is on the building management so it’s a matter of your office/the university pressuring building management to do something at least about him being there when the building is not open to the public.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 1:00 am WE had a guy who was living in one of our buildings — who was not a student or employee. He managed to do it for quite a long time. I have the image in this letter of it being a break room situation rather than a staffed cafe open to the public; surely the building can figure out how to deal with someone who doesn’t live there and yet is spending hours in the building. This is a lazy building management problem.
Looper* January 13, 2025 at 1:06 am I also got the impression it was more “break room” than “public place to buy and consume food”. I would definitely feel very uncomfortable if a strange man was repeatedly in my office break room watching videos out loud on his laptop. He has no reason to be there and needs to go.
Slow Gin Lizz* January 13, 2025 at 9:25 am It’s a shame that he’s disruptive, though. If he were just quietly using the space, likely no one would even notice him.
LifebeforeCorona* January 13, 2025 at 12:30 pm We have a fair sized homeless population and some public spaces are more welcoming than others. Most fast food places have locked washrooms but if the persons are sitting quietly they are left alone for the most part. This guy is drawing attention to himself needlessly.
Alumnus* January 13, 2025 at 9:23 am As a student at university, I accidentally had a similar situation happen to me. I was a commuter student at a mainly non-commuting university, and found an isolated kitchen with a keurig in a mostly office building which had formerly been a house. I was eventually confronted by an older woman who worked there asking if I had formal permission to be there, which I did not realize was needed. I apologized, asked if I was permitted to finish my lunch (if I remember, I still had something in the microwave when she was speaking), and never went back to that kitchen / probably actually a break room. Even if this guy was given the benefit of the doubt initially, he is well past that now.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:01 am This is a lazy building management problem. Totally. And this would be true even if it were an actual cafe style set up.
Not Australian* January 13, 2025 at 10:27 am When I worked in a hospital we often had people living in odd spaces. One, who had found himself nice comfortable quarters in a lecture theatre, was only discovered when he decided to light a fire in a corridor in the middle of the night… *because he was cold*. Others found the trolley store and slept there for several nights: when they left, they took the security cameras with them…
Nathan* January 13, 2025 at 6:35 am I’d put money on the guy living in the building. This happened when I was in grad school. They found out a guy had been kicked out of the university but didn’t tell his parents — he found a way to get into the unused basement of a building and lived there. He showered in the communal showers of one of the older dorm rooms. He got away with it for literal months before he was discovered.
Butch Ferguson* January 13, 2025 at 6:52 am This sort of also happened where I went to college several years before I attended. A student who was kicked out but didn’t want to tell his family somehow managed to pilfer food and was living/hiding in the crawl spaces above the ceiling for some months IIRC. At some point between them realizing he was still there and actually apprehending him there were apparently wanted posters posted in the dorm. The version of the legend I heard did not involve great personal hygiene however.
Acronyms Are Life (AAL)* January 13, 2025 at 9:58 am Yes the legend of Butch Ferguson! Heard he was found in W.T. Door’s closet. But really, that was pretty crazy to hear about as an alum.
anonprofit* January 13, 2025 at 9:25 am I met one of my best friends because she was squatting in an empty dorm room at my college–in this case, everyone else on the hall knew she was there and agreed to it. She made it a while semester and no one ever noticed!
juliebulie* January 13, 2025 at 10:45 am I think if he were living in the building, that he would be much more discreet so as not to get caught. And probably spend much more of his day in the place where he sleeps, presumably a secluded nook someplace.
Elsewise* January 13, 2025 at 11:01 am Eh, I don’t know. I’ve had friends who were homeless and stayed in university buildings. If you’re young enough to pass as a student, a college campus is one of the few places you can sleep in public without getting sent away for example, and a lot of young unhoused people have either figured this out independently or heard from friends and friends of friends. But most people don’t want to spend all day and all night hiding in the same little nook, even if that would be safer than going to a cafe and then coming back.
Reluctant Mezzo* January 13, 2025 at 10:18 pm We have a local college with a lot of retired-aged students, so someone of almost any age could get away with it there.
GrumpyPenguin* January 13, 2025 at 6:56 am My first thought was “stalker shadowing his ex”. But we don’t know who he is or why he is there, we only know he is rude and isn’t allowed to be there. The place needs a clear policy about that and enforce it.
Seashell* January 13, 2025 at 7:01 am My first thought was “person living a fake life”, like they lied to people that they went to that university, so they want to be seen there or have knowledge of what goes on there. Whatever the story is, it’s likely not good.
N* January 13, 2025 at 9:07 am That’s a very extreme jump for a first thought. All he’s doing is sitting with his computer, and no one has indicated that they know him.
Kella* January 14, 2025 at 12:16 am “Stalker” may be a jump but he’s not just sitting there with his computer. He’s lying about who he works for and evading answering questions about who he is, and it sounds like refusing to leave when asked. It seems pretty clear that he’s aware this is a restricted area that he’s not supposed to be in but he keeps coming back anyway. That, plus watching loud videos after being asked to stop indicates some significant boundary-disrespecting behavior. He might not be stalking but he’s not fully innocent of all wrong doing either. Whatever the actual reason for his presence, he’s hiding it and resisting being pushed out.
Momma Bear* January 13, 2025 at 8:57 am This was my first thought – that he’s staying there because it’s a warm, safe place to be and he has nowhere else to go. Would it be a non-issue if he didn’t watch videos with sound or wasn’t there on weekends? I think they need to be specific about the problem to building management. I once worked in an office with open bathrooms which were eventually locked with a code because they would get trashed. If the building is open, then people are going to be bold enough to use it. I’d ask the supervisor to talk to the management about what to do in the moment and/or see if the campus counseling center has ideas or resources if you think he’s actually an unhoused neighbor.
ubotie* January 13, 2025 at 3:25 pm “Would it be a non-issue if he didn’t watch videos with sound or wasn’t there on weekends?” Yes, it still would be. There are security issues around people being in buildings that aren’t supposed to be in there, especially if the buildings do have secure access (that said secured access isn’t being enforced is another thing). Especially on a university campus. Ultimately, the building management and security need to actually do their jobs. So don’t even bother with the whole “we ask him what his deal is and he just mumbles (seriously WTF) some non-answer” song and dance. Give another heads up to building management AND campus security *now* that this has been an ongoing issue (stressing the disruption, general “this guy gives different answers about which department he’s working for” part, AND the whole “this is circumventing our existing security process you dumb-heads”). Then the next time he shows up, immediately alert both building management AND security and make them do their GD jobs already. And honestly, security should just go ahead and establish 24/7 fob access for the building, no ifs, ands, or buts. And/or have a security member at the building entrance. Too bad, so sad. It’s 20-GD-25, you cannot mess around with randos wandering around college campuses anymore, especially when they’re already causing a disturbance, and going out of their way to draw more attention to themselves (not giving a straight answer to a very basic “uhh, what department are you with?” question). Sincerely, Someone who has worked in campus administration since 2006, across multiple universities (including high-crime areas and “low-crime” areas that proved to be the bigger security problems because everyone got complacent).
Freya* January 14, 2025 at 12:22 am Not to mention in case of fire – if the only people who are supposed to be there are people who log in and out of the secured areas, then the firefighters won’t know that they need to look for an extra person who doesn’t have access to the secured areas but has passed out from smoke inhalation in a corner of the unsecured area. Which means they won’t get rescued.
keyboards all the way* January 14, 2025 at 3:25 pm yes to all of that! So if a fire does occur, and that guy is injured or killed, you can bet your bubble that the college (and the company that actually owns that space) is going to get sued to high heaven about the fact that no one realized he was there. Even though he was the one originally trespassing, going out of his way to circumvent security procedures, etc. (None of which justifies being injured or killed in a fire but like–the guy has not covered himself in glory at all during this whole rigamarole). And the letter writer and colleagues will likely also face blowback of some sort. So maybe everyone just put on their grown-up clothes and put a stop to this nonsense already.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:19 am But supposedly the building is closed on weekend w/o a fob. Ergo if he’s there on the weekends, he presumably has a fob to permit entry. He sounds weird and mumbly but it’s quite possible he’s legit…and just weird.
I'll have the blue plate special, please.* January 13, 2025 at 9:06 am It might be best to have management do a sweep of the buildings. Also, do you have security cameras, where you might be seeing how he gets in and what times he does?
Sloanicota* January 13, 2025 at 9:23 am There seems to be some systems things that can help here. For one thing, the cafe can be unlocked/open during the hours it’s open (and I agree a person coming into the use the cafe doesn’t rise to the level of “call the police” to me) – and maybe one reception/waiting room, but I’d say you have to have fob access to get into any other part of the building at any other time. Someone can let you in right? It would make me nervous thinking about someone entering during public hours and then concealing themselves in the building to be there overnight. This is a thing that happens.
goddessoftransitory* January 13, 2025 at 5:33 pm I thought that too; you’d think he would be more careful about watching videos with sound since it’s getting him noticed, but who knows. But yes, I think this needs to get escalated. He’s clearly not supposed to be there (although the use of the word “cafe” made me wonder–is it like a Starbucks, or just what they call a student lounge type space?) If it’s the latter, this isn’t a public space and security needs tightening.
Kisa* January 13, 2025 at 12:55 am Yes. This is so alien to me. Like, I am a petite woman and I do not go in to threathening situations. But if someone, who has reason to, is entering my place of work, I feel like I have duty to politely queston that. If someone mumbles and I dont understand, I say “Excuse me?”. Ofcourse, if the situation is threathening, I back off and call security/or backup. And eventually, this is their job if someone is persistently staying somewhere they shouldnt. Ofcourse, there MIGHT be a good and innocent reason this person is there, but they are not being co-operative so you should just follow your policy.
JM60* January 13, 2025 at 3:18 am If I were in that situation, I would’ve eventually directly contacted security myself and explained the whole situation to them. If building management won’t verify if he belongs there, security should at least be able to check his employee/student ID, and know what next steps to take if he can’t show such ID.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:36 am A past thread on this–an ER waiting room, I believe–the person usually sent in to defuse things was a very tiny woman. Who was very confident that no one was earning toughness points by facing off with her. “Hey, tiny grandma, I feel MAD!” was just not the vibe the disruptive person was going for.
Carys, Lady of Weeds* January 13, 2025 at 9:33 am “Hey, tiny grandma, I feel MAD!” ahahahaha thank you for giving me a much needed laugh this morning!
Properlike* January 13, 2025 at 1:37 pm I’m getting a shirt that says “Tiny Grandma.” Anyone who knows a tiny grandma knows they’ll take you down with the death rays shooting from their eyes.
goddessoftransitory* January 13, 2025 at 9:02 pm Reminds me of that trend of people singing while running alongside their open car doors–one video went viral when a guy’s tiny but mighty grandmother laid into him with her chancla, yelling “YOU SAID YOU’D TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE!”
Paint N Drip* January 14, 2025 at 12:57 pm My own tiny grandma was by far the most terrifying person I’ve met lmaooo I bought her house after she passed away and all the built-in furniture (for example, the bathroom sink/cabinet) was custom-built and is sized for her. We’ve made some updates but her legacy lives on every time my 6’3″ husband folds in half to chop veggies on the tiny kitchen counter
Mentally Spicy* January 13, 2025 at 3:26 pm Several years ago my wife and I had an unexpected late night visit from two police officers responding to reports of “a disturbance” at our address. (There was nothing to it, a vindictive family member was making false police reports about us). Anyway, one officer was a very large, intimidating man. The other was a very petite, older woman with a no-nonsense attitude. Let me tell you right now – I was far more scared of her than I was of him.
LilPinkSock* January 13, 2025 at 9:07 pm Ha, sounds like my parents (although they were not cops). My mother can be terrifying…my father is a big marshmallow.
DE* January 13, 2025 at 9:06 am I suspect he is a student at the university but he has a medical issue and can’t articulate himself well.
Yorick* January 13, 2025 at 9:39 am He directly lied at least one time – the letter says he told building security he works for LW’s department. A student would say they are a student and show their ID.
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 9:53 am If he was a student he could show his student ID and that would be the end of the conversation. People who have medical issues wth articulating themselves have other ways of communicating. Especially if they are in college. It’s a huge stretch to go right to he has medial issues and thus that excuses his behavior.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:23 am But it’s also a huge leap to assume that someone who is there on weekends is living there, or isn’t permitted to be there versus the simpler answer: he has a fob. Definitely someone should ask for his ID or fob to check that he is legitimately permitted to be there, but this chat has gone off the rails with “HE IS LIVING THERE” when OP didn’t indicate poor hygiene or always wearing the same clothes, etc… Just… he’s there, he mumbles his answers and he doesn’t seem to KNOW anyone.
Someone with a physical disability* January 13, 2025 at 10:24 am Please don’t assume a weird, slightly creepy liar has a medical disability.
fhqwhgads* January 13, 2025 at 11:00 am The letter indicates it’s not an articulation issue. Every part of his response is spoken clearly EXCEPT his name and other identifying info they ask for.
ubotie* January 13, 2025 at 3:27 pm Thanks for playing, let’s here from people who have actually worked on college campuses and/or in the security field. Instead of, you know, fanfic writers just making up random fanfic about the letters.
Kella* January 14, 2025 at 12:22 am People who are disabled or who have a medical issue that interfere with communication don’t go stumbling around the world, expecting people to just deal with the fact that they can’t understand each other (ESPECIALLY DISABLED POC). This guy wasn’t born yesterday. Disabled adults have systems, they have tools, they have other ways to communicate a shorthand of what their deal is so they don’t get escorted out by security of a place they’re actually within their right to be at (or worse, become the victim of police violence). Also, being disabled doesn’t make you lie about where you work, repeatedly.
Kisa* January 14, 2025 at 3:57 am i suspect that if they were a student, they would have, by now, developed or adapted a communication method which would make them able to identify themself.
Lizard the Second* January 13, 2025 at 1:03 am Building management did speak to him at one point, and he claimed to work for us. Building management needs to ask for his staff ID. It’s a worry that he’s clearly lying about his identity to get access.
Roland* January 13, 2025 at 1:22 am Yeah, building security is being very neglectful here. It’s quite literally their job to check access rights and escort people out when they shouldn’t be there.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:30 am It’s not clear to me how often security/building management was involved, it sounds like LW’s group contacted building management once, security didn’t show up that time, and at some other point building management encountered him once. If the people working in the building only reported this once it might not even be clear to management/security how frequent the issue is, if they want action they should be keeping a record of how often and for how long he’s there to make their report.
Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure* January 13, 2025 at 8:44 am 100%, this is a security/safeguarding issue and needs to be escalated.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:25 am Well we don’t KNOW that mgmt didn’t ask to see proof. Would they have told the LW “he showed us a badge; he’s GTG” or would they have said, “ok, thanks” and then just let it end there? They did confront him at least once and he’s still coming around. Perhaps a student or former worker who didn’t last long and just… kept his fob? I think that’s far more likely than “He is living inside the walls!”
Bulu Babi* January 13, 2025 at 1:32 am It’s a university, not a high security facility. So what if someone who’s otherwise homeless found a safe place to there without bothering anyone? What’s gained by throwing him out? I’d bring a printed list of behaviour to avoid and recommended classes, and quietly tell him “We’re not the police and we’re happy you are comfortable here. Here are some behaviours to avoid, here are some cool beginner classes you can attend, and here are some openings among staff (to work the cafeteria for example).”
Anon2* January 13, 2025 at 1:42 am The letter writer has already said that the visitor has not abided by requests to follow broadly agreed-upon etiquette for public spaces (not watching videos without headphones); why would a list be any more effective? Furthermore, how would a list of beginner classes help this person? You can only attend classes if you are an enrolled and tuition-paying student at every school I’m familiar with.
Nerdgal* January 13, 2025 at 8:38 am There was a whole TV show about that in the 60s. Young single guy who was raising his little sister and had a job at a college. Kept sneaking into classes wearing various disguises. In the final episode I think they gave him a diploma. Little sister was named Tina. Can’t remember what the show was called.
Not Tom, Just Petty* January 13, 2025 at 10:14 am This is a rabbit hole. The show was called Hank. It starred Dick Kallman as Hank and Katie Sweet as Tina. They both left acting in the 70s.
Phony Genius* January 13, 2025 at 10:56 am According to the Wikipedia article, they gave him a scholarship to attend the school legitimately in the final episode.
Prof* January 13, 2025 at 3:10 am First of all, universities do have plenty of reasons to have various levels of ”high security”. Research materials can be very sensitive and dangerous and in many cases need to be kept away from the public. This is not true just for lab settings, but many social science fields work with sensitive information such as personal data. The facilities and the security measures surrounding them are often part of the conditions for ethics approval, and for the release of such data to the researcher. Second, the presence of this guy is very obviously unsettling. We have a very similar setup where I work — also a university — and if this happened here it would certainly be very uncomfortable. I sympathise with the need for many people whether they are homeless or just lonely or whatever to have a place to spend time, but that doesn’t mean that random offices should just be cool with strangers hanging around.
WillowSunstar* January 13, 2025 at 10:05 am Yes. We don’t know if he is homeless or has other challenges, but the main point is it’s a security issue if he can’t show ID. I would say make sure he has ID, give him the name of someone on campus who can point him to appropriate resources if he doesn’t, and make sure the cafe space is secured.
learnedthehardway* January 13, 2025 at 10:12 am Agreed – a lot of universities do research on behalf of government or industry – and would be held to pretty high security standards within their contracts with those entities. Odds are this guy is not trying to get access to that material – he’s way too conspicuous – but his failure to abide by simple instructions to not play videos audibly shows that he is not compliant with reasonable requests / requirements. I’d ask Campus Security to deal with him.
Properlike* January 13, 2025 at 1:42 pm I think the “cafe” description is throwing people off. This is building where EVERYTHING is locked except during business hours, and then EVERYTHING *but* the kitchen and bathroom spaces are locked. Universities, even those with off-campus buildings, do have reason to want higher security. The dude is giving off “doesn’t belong here” vibes, and likely counting on people defaulting to nice and not challenging him. But this *is* a potential security issue, and it’s a glaring liability issue for both the building management and the university. I would call the university public safety/police department, explain the situation, and ask (demand) they help convince building management to be more responsive.
Ellen Ripley* January 13, 2025 at 4:22 pm Yes, there are research materials that are sensitive and dangerous, and these should have multiple layers of security around them. Our building locked, and our lab locked (with different keys). Student information went inside locked filling cabinets. All computers were password protected. Restricted building access is a good step. However if a person simply getting inside of the building is enough to give them access to research materials, the PIs of those groups have failed to take sufficient precautions to protect their work and sensitive information.
Nina* January 14, 2025 at 8:50 am In my data management plan, one of the layers of security I’m relying on to secure my (confidential! export-restricted!) research data is ‘the floor I work on is access-controlled 24/7, and the building that floor is in is access-controlled outside of normal working hours’. A stranger with no legitimate business in the building on a weekend is a security breach. ‘In a locked file cabinet or locked computer, on an access-restricted floor you can only get to if you have a legitimate reason to be there, in a building that is access-restricted outside of working hours’, is okay by my funder. ‘In a locked file cabinet or locked computer, on a maybe access restricted floor, in a building a stranger can access out of hours with nobody apparently knowing how he got there’, would not be.
goddessoftransitory* January 13, 2025 at 9:10 pm Thank you! I can think of at least three different departments at my local university off the top of my head who would NOT be cool with random people wandering around for intellectual security and safety reasons–this could cause a researcher to lose their funding in a worst-case scenario.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:28 am “Second, the presence of this guy is very obviously unsettling” How so? Other than being asked to turn down videos, there’s no evidence in the letter of “unsettling” or threatening behavior. He’s just .. unknown and always there. Reads a little… Xenophobic actually. If he just keeps the videos muted (maybe offer him a pair of cheap headphones?) it sounds like nobody would really care.
Raintown* January 13, 2025 at 3:15 am Security can be incredibly important at universities! If the university has biomedical or chemical labs, which most do, then access control is essential, including for the safety of any intruders – either will have highly hazardous controlled substances as a matter of course. At a weekend there will be fewer people around to notice anyone who shouldn’t be in a certain area, so you have to intervene here.
Nina* January 13, 2025 at 3:37 am Hi, I’m a grad student and I currently work in a building very similar to OP’s, down to the ‘cafe space you can access without a fob during working hours’, except that our building is owned by the university, and there are secure facilities (actually secure, the kind you need a clearance to access) upstairs. I am paying a lot of money (a shitload of money, I’m international) to be here and have access to the university’s facilities. If there’s a random stranger spending all day and playing loud videos (what) in the cafe space which is maybe the only place I can get a coffee or heat up my lunch, that stranger is making it hard for me, the person who is meant to be here, to use the facilities that I am paying to use and he is not. If he’s homeless I feel bad about that, but it doesn’t give him the right to camp in the breakroom and it doesn’t make his problems the universities problems except that security needs to get. him. out.
Tigres* January 13, 2025 at 9:48 am Yeah, this set-up sounds very familiar to me, a research scientist at a university…with the added fun bonus of the fact that the buildings I work in tend to house labs where moderate-high security is actually extremely necessary. Like, if you look like a student or an academic visitor, and were acting appropriately (which this guy is not), you can hang out in our cafe for a bit, sure, but otherwise you are definitely not permitted to loiter. And if someone without a staff ID were found in one of our buildings out-of-hours? Even the really boring otherwise-open-to-the-public bits? You’d get like 60 seconds to explain yourself and for whoever brought you in to appropriately grovel (y’know, sometimes people will bring their kids with them to their offices for a few hours on the weekend and just hope they won’t get caught), otherwise the police will be called. Like…members of the public can access the lobby of many corporate office buildings. That doesn’t mean that you get to hang out there.
Anna* January 13, 2025 at 10:53 am In the computer security space, we talk a lot about how the weakest part of a security policy is often the human factor. It’s great if a policy exists, but meaningless if it isn’t actually followed. Why bother having access controls on the building at all, if you’re not going to do anything about people skirting the policy? Just leave the building unlocked. Why not! As it’s being handled right now, it just keeps the honest people out, and teaches the users to subvert the rules if they are inconvenient, since there are no consequences.
Peter the Bubblehead* January 13, 2025 at 11:55 am I know exactly what you mean. Pre-Covid, we had the death of a drug addict in one of the public bathrooms in the buidling where I work. He apparently OD-ed on Saturday and wasn’t discovered until sometime on Monday. As a result, the management company of the building installed key-code locks on all bathroom doors with the tenants being given the codes. In the last couple of years as more people are coming back to work in the offices, I have noticed more and more often that people are leaving the bathroom doors open for just anyone to enter. If someone had legitimate business in the building with one of the companies located there, they can ask for and receive the code with no issue. The locks were installed for a reason – to keep unauthorized people from using them – and leaving them open isn’t being nice, it’s negating the security measures. Our building has had issues with homeless people trying to get in to sleep in a warm place, and this led to several businesses being broken into and property stolen. As a result every entrance to the building is now code entry, the public bathrooms are code entry, and each business is either code or RF card. It must be done to keep the people who are authorized to be here safe.
ubotie* January 13, 2025 at 3:39 pm Pre-Covid, we had the death of a drug addict in one of the public bathrooms in the buidling where I work. He apparently OD-ed on Saturday and wasn’t discovered until sometime on Monday. Oh my god that’s awful! Not just for that guy obviously but whomever found him too, and the other people on that floor! And to be honest, that is maybe another reason why it’s important to follow policies around secured building access? An extreme example, yeah, but if I were the person who found that guy, or someone else who worked in that building when it had happened…I honestly don’t know if I’d been able to ever go back there.
The Other Virginia* January 13, 2025 at 4:55 pm My son is also a grad student with an almost identical setup as the one you describe. He is at a large university that also happened to have a very high profile murder on campus last year. So security there has a completely different meaning and people are understandably a little more concerned about people in spaces where they are not supposed to be. I am in no way suggesting that this person is a murderer or has any criminal intent at all and he shouldn’t be treated like he does. But it is the responsiblity of the building security (and the university who I’m assuming leases the space) to make sure that the people who have access to their students and staff are there legitimately.
goddessoftransitory* January 13, 2025 at 9:19 pm What it comes down to is that this person may not be doing or ever do anything dangerous or illegal, but the casual attitude towards them being there is signaling to everybody around that ANYBODY can do this; it could lure in someone with much less benign intent, or cause legal and financial problems for the university and/or building management.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:30 am How, other than the loud videos is he making it hard for you to use the facilities? Ask him to turn it down. If he turns it back up, ask again. Lather, rinse, repeat until he either gets it, or gets annoyed and leaves or security comes. But he’s not keeping you from the microwave, etc… No allegations he’s stealing peoples’ lunches from the fridge, etc… He’s just… watching loud vidoes, which says to me he may not own headphones, so I’d buy him a cheap pair. LW didn’t seem to feel threatened by him so much as … confused and annoyed that he’s there and nobody knows why.
Michigander* January 13, 2025 at 5:24 am It sounds like he IS bothering people though, by refusing to use headphones. There’s no reason to tell him that they’re happy he’s in an area that he shouldn’t have access to when that’s clearly not the case. Some spaces are public and some are not, and it’s not unusual to not want unauthorised people hanging around an office building on the weekends.
SemiAnon* January 13, 2025 at 5:51 am I work in a university building which is a research facility, and open to the public during the office hours, with a break room. It’s pretty normal for various people to be in and out during the work day – students, academic visitors, vendors, delivery people, occasional family members waiting for someone, people coming for a colloquium. Having a person who is not associated with the institute in any way setting up shop in the break room on a daily basis would be extremely unusual and well outside the normal use of the space. Having that same person lie about their affiliation, and show up hanging around on the weekend, would definitely get security involved. It’s a workplace that has public access during the day, not a public space, or a free coworking space, or an impromptu homeless shelter.
Venus* January 13, 2025 at 10:28 am That’s a good point about public spaces – at the least this guy should go hang out at the library or another more public space that is better able to accommodate him. Except that he probably tried there first and was told to leave because he played his videos too loudly.
I'll have the blue plate special, please.* January 13, 2025 at 1:07 pm My local library has an understanding with our local social services organization that their clients can come and spend time in the library as long as they’re not disruptive. I met a man who was receiving these services where he would talk to people like me. It was a place for him to keep busy during the day and then someone would meet him to take him home before the library was closed. In this case, it was a public building. OP’s place sounds more like an office building.
HSM 3 Troy’s revenge* January 13, 2025 at 6:54 am Tell me you’ve never stepped outside your house without telling me you’ve never stepped outside your house.
Magpie* January 13, 2025 at 7:02 am This is a space that’s meant to be used only by the people who work in this building. Even if he seems to not be bothering anyone, it’s a security and safety risk to have unauthorized people hanging around, especially during times the building is supposed to be locked to unauthorized people. Universities generally have several spaces that are open to everyone (libraries, student unions, etc). He needs to go use one of those spaces instead. This definitely isn’t the only safe space available to him on campus, no matter what’s actually going on with him.
saskia* January 13, 2025 at 9:36 am Exactly. People are acting like this is the only place the guy can go, and it’s not.
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 9:58 am Its also a safety risk for the guy. If something happened, like a fire afterhours, no one would know he was there,
nonbeenary* January 13, 2025 at 11:33 am And given the building is locked on weekends and after-hours, he might get locked in, which is another major safety risk! I work in a building that’s technically open to the public during weekdays, and we’re fine with visitors (mostly university students) hanging out as long as they’re quiet and polite, but our door locks are on a timer. If someone without a keyfob is here past closing, they are /*stuck*/ unless they know where the emergency exit is. And most of them don’t know where the emergency exit is.
learnedthehardway* January 13, 2025 at 10:16 am It’s also a liability risk – that’s something that might get building management more interested in paying attention. Likely the insurance policy on the building has stipulations about use of the buildings (probably pertains more if he is found to be living in the building, but it’s something to flag to the building management as an incentive for them to check things out more rapidly and thoroughly).
Elitist Semicolon* January 13, 2025 at 2:11 pm This. I used to work in a computer facility that was card access only, and one of the things the supervisor used to tell me was that we were only as safe as we were confident that we knew who is in the facility. OP’s situation is a little different in that there are open access areas during the week, but if he’s there on a weekend when any access is card-only, then there’s a safety issue. And one for the person sneaking in, too, because if there’s an emergency and the system only shows three people in the building, first responders might not know to look for a fourth.
Seashell* January 13, 2025 at 7:05 am I imagine most universities have an admissions process, so random people don’t get to take classes, and the last person they should be hiring is a lying trespasser.
LifebeforeCorona* January 13, 2025 at 12:40 pm Most universities have posted class schedules and it’s easy to sit in on a few lectures without being noticed. Of course you can’t submit essays or work because now you need online access to course material that includes student numbers or passwords. Our university has a library that was open 24 hours before Covid and it was a great place to read quietly in silence.
UKDancer* January 13, 2025 at 2:11 pm Yes, we had a few old ladies used to sit in on one of my law lectures. They lived locally and were bored so they showed up. They didn’t do anything in terms of the coursework but they seemed to like the lecturer so they came along. As long as they were quiet and sat at the back nobody said anything. Obviously they took attendance registers for the seminars which were much smaller and had a more controlled admission but the lectures could have a fair number of people so they didn’t count who was there.
LifebeforeCorona* January 13, 2025 at 4:11 pm My late MIL did the same. The university used one of the cable channels to broadcast lectures and she enjoyed watching them.
LJ* January 13, 2025 at 5:07 pm some schools even outright allow seniors to audit classes for free. It’s really quite harmless and keeps the brain engaged and whatnot.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:48 pm In my country, all universities are technically public spaces because they are classified as government agencies. Back in the day, all lectures were public, you could attend even if you weren’t enrolled! You couldn’t take exams but you could attend. That’s not the case anymore but it hasn’t been that long a time since then. There are exceptions. I recently attended at tiny little university that’s a combination of a civilian university and a military academy and since the Ukrainian invasion, it is closed to the public and considered a protected area. You’re not allowed to take pictures etc in there. Same rules as for the Armed Forces Headquarters. There are special protected rooms for war games and things like that.
Meaningful hats* January 13, 2025 at 2:11 pm My now-husband and I went to different universities in the same city. I sat in on plenty of his large lecture classes and even attended a lab with him (the TA did not care that I didn’t belong there). I won’t get any formal recognition of the knowledge I gained at his university, but no one ever questioned my presence there, and I learned some cool stuff outside my academic wheelhouse.
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 7:36 am I think the main thing for me is that it’s clearly not safe? It’s a workplace that is open to the street without being prepared for what goes with that. As in, it might be safe for this guy (if he is homeless) temporarily but this is a place that is neither public enough to be visible and well populated, but it’s not private enough that people can’t wander in off the street. This means that even if this guy himself poses no danger, how long will it be before someone shows up who does? I think security and building management are being very negligent here.
Great Frogs of Literature* January 13, 2025 at 9:10 am I was thinking this — they need better policies and response processes.
boof* January 13, 2025 at 7:41 am There are so many reasons why allowing squatters is not going to work out well for the people who use the property for it’s intended use – we’re already seeing it here the person pays videos loudly in the joint area and only stops for a few min then asked. It’s already disruptive to the students who are either paying a lot to be there or making very little in exchange for their work for an education.
NerdyKris* January 13, 2025 at 7:58 am cool, so can I hang out in your backyard, maybe use your porch? This is private property. They have a right to decide who can and can’t be there.
Arrietty* January 13, 2025 at 10:54 am It would appear that the people who have that power have decided they’re fine with having people wander in.
Meaningful hats* January 13, 2025 at 2:17 pm This reminded me of a funny story. Three years ago, our family moved to my husband’s small hometown. One day, shortly after moving in, I was in the house and heard the door from the garage open. I looked down the hall and there was a man who I’d never seen before standing at the end of my hallway. He told me we’d left the garage door open, so he decided to pop in and see what we were up to. That’s the day I learned that kind of behavior is not uncommon in that particular small town. No one has come into our house unannounced since then, but I often find unknown children playing in my driveway and courtyard. I started leaving balls and bubbles in the courtyard, so they don’t get too creative and start messing with things.
goddessoftransitory* January 13, 2025 at 9:30 pm I remember reading Bill Bryson’s accounts of life in a small English town and how people would just walk in without knocking–I see it often in “cozy” mystery series set in villages as well. It just blows my mind every time; I think “man, this is a great way to get shot.”
Caro* January 13, 2025 at 8:39 am I think that is a lovely idea but also, hard no. He clearly does exactly what he wants, when he wants and ignores attempts to stop him and refuses flatly to respond to any enquiries. He’s around over weekends, with his laptop… wandering about freely, unfazed. He needs to explain himself, or get out, immediately.
The Kulprit* January 13, 2025 at 10:25 am This is my feeling as well. There are other places he can go, and it is a massive safety issue. Better policies and responses are needed. They should count themselves lucky that their canary is merely obnoxious and evasive — get a plan in place before you encounter someone who means harm! I’d also be more sympathetic to someone camping out if they didn’t lie to me about who they are and if they’re supposed to be there. It makes me more wary.
Zipzap* January 13, 2025 at 7:35 pm YES. It sounds like he has no business being there. He may be totally harmless, but if he or another unauthorized person were to harm anyone there, it’s an absolutely massive liability to the university if they knew he was there and did nothing to make him leave. There are likely public libraries where he could hang out all he wants.
Annony* January 13, 2025 at 9:18 am As someone who worked at a university and often had to come in on nights and weekends, I would feel incredibly unsafe is someone who didn’t work there was camped out in the break room when I am otherwise alone, especially since he refuses to follow the rules for the space. It isn’t the library or the cafeteria. It could be very dangerous to be stuck in a locked building (since he stays after the doors are locked) with someone who does not belong there.
Tigres* January 13, 2025 at 9:55 am Yupppppppp that too. I was thinking upthread about safety of labs (reagents, data security, etc.), but safety of the researchers themselves is absolutely a fair concern. [Even if not for this dude specifically — so far all he’s done is play videos loudly, which, while extremely obnoxious, is hardly threatening — there needs to be a clear plan/policy for when and how security gets to eject people who aren’t supposed to be in the building.]
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 10:10 am And even if this dude hasn’t done anything “threatening” yet, he has, at minimum, showed a pattern of extremely questionable judgement.
LifebeforeCorona* January 13, 2025 at 12:43 pm Exactly, a student was assaulted by a stranger in a university building because the doors weren’t locked after hours, and it turned out that the video from the security cameras was so poor that it was useless. As far as I know the guy was never caught.
Sloanicota* January 13, 2025 at 9:26 am Any public place needs a policy to address people who are not customers, TBH. Then you can decide what’s safe, fair, and kind from the top. It *will* happen if you are in a big city. We have people camped out in bathrooms, sleeping at tables in cafes, etc. I don’t blame them (it’s cold outside!) but you can’t just bury your head in the sand and hope it doesn’t happen.
Yorick* January 13, 2025 at 9:41 am He’s bothering people and also taking up space that’s meant for staff and students.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:06 am So what if someone who’s otherwise homeless found a safe place to there without bothering anyone? Well, for starters, he actually *is* bothering people. He’s playing videos at too high volume (rather than using headphones or ear buds). And he has been asked repeatedly to stop. And each time he stops for a few minutes and then starts again.
Seal* January 13, 2025 at 1:13 pm The issue isn’t whether or not he’s homeless or that he’s in a space that’s ostensibly open to the public or even that he played a video one time without headphones (this happens in libraries more often than you’d expect!). It’s that he’s been asked repeatedly to stop doing so and keeps doing it, most likely because there have been no real consequences for his actions. As others have pointed out, if he’d been sitting there quietly on his laptop no one would have noticed him.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 1:12 pm It’s a closed part of the university though. As someone who has had several stalkers, it really is important that secure areas stay secure. There are number of other reasons why that’s important.
judyjudyjudy* January 13, 2025 at 1:34 pm He is bothering people. He won’t stop listening to videos on his laptop without headphones, even after being asked directly. I don’t think a list is going to help. What’s your next suggestion?
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 1:48 pm We don’t know he is homeless though. It’s one possible explanation but there are others, some of which are more unsettling. Somebody above mentioned the possibility of him stalking a student or a member of staff. Probably not the most likely option, given that he doesn’t seem to be watching anybody in particular and nobody has mentioned knowing him or being afraid of him being there, but it’s still not impossible. Given his lying and repeated ignoring of instructions, I’m not sure they can afford to ignore the possibility this guy might have some nefarious reason for being around. What it could be, I don’t know. I find it hard to think of any explanation that explains his behaviour.
keyboards all the way* January 14, 2025 at 3:35 pm and here are some openings among staff (to work the cafeteria for example).” I know you mean well but I also KNOW you haven’t worked at, or attended anything resembling a university in a loooong time because job openings? in MY university (to paraphrase terrible pop-up ads). Hiring freezes and job cuts are hitting academia just as much as any other industry and support positions like cafeteria staff are absolutely the first, second, and third on that chopping block. They’re also almost always contracted out to a 3rd party like Aramark or Bon Appetit who pay minimum wages for bare-bones staff. And as many homeless people can tell you (assuming this guy is actually homeless), it is actually really hard to *get* a job when you’re homeless. A lot of the process still assumes you have a physical address to get mail at, for starters. A lot of homelessness is tied up with mental illness or incarceration–the latter will immediately make people ineligible for A LOT of jobs, especially at a university. Yes, even in the cafeteria (yes even if they’ve outsourced all that to effing Aramark). I’m also imagining LW and friends skipping up to this guy with hopeful smiles on their faces all, “here’s the syllabus for Macrame 101, an application for ‘Dishwasher 3rd Shift [Minimum wage after 90 days pending background check approval]’ and a list from a website about why it’s not polite to watch videos with no headphones. And a list of local shelters. And $10 for a hot meal! You can do it, buddy!” And learning that he’s like, some freelance software developer making bank who just can’t be bothered to engage in aspects of the social contract like “don’t trespass” and “don’t act weird when you do trespass.”
DeliCat* January 13, 2025 at 2:29 am I think it’s more the fact that it doesn’t need to be the LW’s responsibility. The building management seem pretty ineffectual (the guy says he works for us? Cool, you saw his staff ID then?) but it is ultimately their job and if they’re not doing it then ideally the complaint should be escalated. It doesn’t sound like the LW needs to be taking this on directly.
Agent Diane* January 13, 2025 at 3:12 am I’d recommend OP documents it all with relevant management. It’s good to not want to profile, and I’d also not want that, but someone unauthorised in a fob-controlled space at weekends is a security risk to grad students working alone. The compassion for the stranger shouldn’t override the safety of students and staff.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 11:11 am Yeah, that was my understanding of Alison’s response. Not “do nothing” but “if it’s causing problems, escalate with the people with the experience/responsibility to do something about it”.
Ask a Manager* Post authorJanuary 13, 2025 at 11:51 am Yes, exactly — explain to the people who DO need to handle it why they need to, if indeed you feel they do. If you find you can’t articulate that, consider whether it’s because there isn’t actually a pressing need. I’m not saying there isn’t one, but that if there is, it needs to be spelled out for the people who are actually responsible for it.
Lesley* January 13, 2025 at 5:36 pm Right. I’m sure the restrictioned access is entirely capricious. Building management will appreciate having that pointed out and will probably just do away with the key fob system entirely. I bet the update will include personal thanks from the building manager for that insight.
Hedgehog* January 13, 2025 at 7:37 pm LW writes, “but the cafe and bathrooms are outside of locked areas, and the cafe is an open area without a door, so there’s no way to prevent people from entering.” It’s not a key-fob access only space. it’s literally an open-air cafe that doesn’t even have walls or a door *to* lock. The key fob system seems to be doing a great job at protecting the actual sections of the building that require security and privacy. The entirely open-air cafe isn’t one of them. If the cafe is meant to be private or secure, then it needs, at the very least, a lockable door.
Ask a Manager* Post authorJanuary 13, 2025 at 9:48 pm I don’t think it’s capricious at all. But right now building management clearly isn’t treating this as serious issue and if the LW believes it is one, it’ll help if they more clearly explain why.
happybat* January 13, 2025 at 4:42 am Academics need social spaces where they can discuss their work. That should not be happening in front of intruders. Playing videos is obnoxious and unpleasant, but the big worry for me is privacy. On campuses I am familiar with, there were plenty of ‘open’ spaces where the public were explicitly welcome to come in and drink a coffee, and where I would never dream of discussing anything private. But more private spaces really did need to be private.
I should really pick a name* January 13, 2025 at 7:24 am It doesn’t sound like the LW has the responsibility or authority to do any of that.
Chauncy Gardener* January 13, 2025 at 7:41 am I feel concerned that the guy might be homeless. LW, would that change your process if that were the case?
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:32 am I feel concerned that the guy might be homeless. LW, would that change your process if that were the case? It absolutely should not change anything. Keep in mind that being homeless does not mean that someone is dangerous. But is *also* does not mean that they are harmless! And that’s aside from the other issues potentially at play. Now, I would hope that someone would at least have some information they could give him about accessing help and possibly even a contact or two they could hook him up with if he is homeless. But given how incompetent and ineffectual management seems to be here, I would be shocked if that existed. But still not on the LW.
Lydia* January 13, 2025 at 11:18 am Someone being homeless doesn’t change the basic facts that he’s lied about his employer, has disrupted the people using the space, and should not be there. Even if he were homeless, it’s not an appropriate place for him to be! I’m not sure how his housing situation would change that.
Really?* January 13, 2025 at 5:00 pm He may be homeless and harmless, but sadly that may not be the case with the next random person that happens on the buildings lax security. Years ago, a colleague was raped when she went to the restroom while working late because random folks made it up to the office floors and hung around after hours. And like your building, the bathrooms required a key – unfortunately people had a tendency to prop them open.
Jackalope* January 13, 2025 at 8:28 am Given the way that he’s acted in the past, my recommendation would be that when he’s seen in the building, they call Security first and have them show up to escort him out. No talking to him first or asking him politely to stop listening to videos out loud, because they already know that won’t work.
Caro* January 13, 2025 at 8:40 am Agree. As soon as he is seen, he is escorted out. Every. Single. Time. No staff pass = goodbye.
Dr. Brown* January 13, 2025 at 5:40 pm This is the proper approach. It’s not an issue for the university because they currently feel no pain. Make them feel some pain by making this an issue for them to deal with EVERY time it comes up.
fhqwhgads* January 13, 2025 at 11:12 am I don’t disagree, but it read like when they’ve called Security in the past, Security may or may not show up? Which is its own separate problem.
M2* January 13, 2025 at 8:47 am My relative works in higher education and they have signs about shutting the doors behind you. Many years ago someone held a door open for people who ended up stealing and breaking into offices in the building. You should contact building management and ask for walk through at night. Also, can someone have a staff meeting and be general of we need a sign to shut doors and to not hold door open for anyone you don’t know? Also no one is allowed to sleep in offices (in case someone is letting this person sleep in their office). If this person needs a place to sleep it would be better to know so someone can get them the available resources.
Academic Anon* January 13, 2025 at 1:22 pm At my university, a student entered a dorm and killed another student and a third student that came to help the second student. Since the dorm was card-access and the first student did not have rights to that access, it is presumed that he was let in by someone holding the door for him, even perhaps the first student that was killed. Not to doom, but it does happen.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 1:47 pm I do volunteer work that regularly takes me to a local university to meet with students. In theory I’m supposed to wait outside the building, call the people I’m there to see, and wait for someone who knows me to come let me in through the card-access door. In reality I have never once needed to wait longer than about 5 seconds before someone entering or leaving holds the door for me. Locks (and reminders about locks) aren’t completely pointless but they certainly are not a solution all on their own.
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 9:47 am My thoughts exactly. Who knows what this person is up to and its a huge security risk. For all we know the guy is setting up shop and is trying to look like he belongs so he can con some gullible student into letting him into a restricted area. I don’t know if building management is the right people to talk to. depending on the OP’s level it might actually be their boss who needs to do this. But someone needs to call security/university police. Especially being that he lied about where he works and is refusing to give his name. Security/UP will be able to ask for his ID and escort him out.
Pumpkin cat* January 13, 2025 at 9:56 am I would call the cops on him when he’s caught there after hours, when the building is closed. Why all the pussyfooting around, he’s trespassing. That’s a call the cops crime.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:34 am Why all the pussyfooting around, Because in most cities, police are notoriously bad at de-escalating a situation. Something does need to be done, but the idea of putting a person’s life at risk without trying lower risk interventions first does not sit well.
Plate of Wings* January 13, 2025 at 2:52 pm Yeah it’s obvious to try and brainstorm other options that might get results other than calling the police. If the guy isn’t being immediately threatening or violent, of course most people want to keep things that way!
boof* January 13, 2025 at 5:05 pm Campus security tends to be a bit better than police – in my experience anyway.
megaboo* January 13, 2025 at 11:06 am I agree. This seems to be a “see something, say something” situation.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 9:56 pm If building security is available 24-7, call them first. I’m disinclined to jump to police on a Black man who has not indicated that he is a threat to physical safety. I agree that he has to go, but I think that calling 911 on him should be a last resort.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:00 am Yes, she has to do something. This is an access restricted building on weekends, and the visitor has been seen there on weekends Yes, and no. Yes, it is a problem and something needs to be done about it. But, No, it is not the *LW’s* job to do something. The needs to make sure that they document their head off, and make sure that they inform building management. And he / his department should keep on informing building management, in email, about the issues. Because the day something bad happens, there is going to be a witch hunt and the LW is going to need to make sure that they don’t get caught in the blowback.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 10:06 am Yeah, some of the responses are confusingly chill about this. If someone wrote in and asked if it would be okay for them to wander into office buildings and start hanging out in other people’s breakrooms without permission, the response would be a hard no. I’m assuming the guy is underhoused in some way but LW has no way of knowing whether or not this is someone who could become dangerous or erratic down the line. Building management really needs to step up.
Good Lord Ratty* January 13, 2025 at 1:22 pm This. There’s a building in the downtown in my city where the offices of a major international consulting firm are located, and they have a cafe on the ground floor that looks like it’s open to the public but is actually only for workers at that business (and their guests/clients/etc.). I wandered in once by mistake, thinking it was for anyone to patronize and I could just get a coffee, and was asked (politely) to leave, by security. It was an innocent mistake and one that probably happens all the time… which is why they had a security person there to handle confused would-be customers. It isn’t truly public space, and it should be reserved for the use of the people it’s intended for. Full stop.
Katydid* January 13, 2025 at 10:28 am I was genuinely surprised by the response to this. They’ve got a man who is trespassing, lying about who he is, being disruptive, refusing to leave, and is accessing the area even when it’s supposedly locked up. This is a serious problem, not something to just shrug off and ignore.
Kate* January 13, 2025 at 10:38 am I agree. We can have sympathy for someone who might lack a better place to be and still recognize the refusal to give a straight answer to a question about why he is there as misleading, suspicious behavior. The reason showing an ID matters is that it indicates you’ve agreed to abide by certain policies and expectations as a member of the university community. He wants to use private spaces without the minimal adherence to the social contract of identifying himself and telling the truth about why he’s there.
LaminarFlow* January 13, 2025 at 11:17 am LW should definitely escalate this way more. This happened to me in the early 00’s when building security was fairly lax. The man who repeatedly entered our building was found snooping in unlocked file cabinet drawers one night by someone who happened to be working very late to solve a service outage. It was pretty creepy. This guy seems pretty harmless, but he’s given evasive responses to simple questions, and he’s not authorized to be in the building. He is making people uncomfortable. He needs to either produce his credentials or leave.
Grumpy Elder Millennial* January 13, 2025 at 11:54 am I went to grad school at a university in a large city, with a campus that was integrated into downtown. So we had a lot of people unaffiliated with the university passing through or just hanging out on campus. I’m pretty sure the clothing store across the street from our lab was a front for money laundering. This was very different from my undergrad experience on a campus that was totally separate from the surrounding suburban community. Anyway, the policy of my school was that security would only respond to someone’s behaviour. If someone with no affiliation to the university was on campus, they were fine to stay as long as they weren’t causing any harm. Could you do the same with him in public areas while they’re open? Where you should intervene is if he’s in secure areas or in there at times the building is closed to anyone without a fob. Then, it would make sense to call campus security, as it is a potential safety issue. Other than that, I totally agree with Riley’s comment about being extremely clear with people about the tailgating policy. And the policy should be that there is no tailgating, basically ever. It’s a safety issue as well as an issue of needing to prevent any unauthorized access to confidential data. When I’d come into the department on weekends, there weren’t a lot of people there, but we had a similar set-up with fob access, and it was a relief to know that it was unlikely I’d run into some rando who wasn’t supposed to be there when I was in the building basically alone.
Make it bold and make it red* January 13, 2025 at 12:21 pm Former university staff person here. I worked in an admin building open to the public – think prospective students and their families, alumni, donors, vendors, delivery people, etc – so we would often have non-employees using our break rooms to get a drink of water, wait for a meeting in a conference room, etc. Totally fine and expected. However, I would be concerned if someone not affiliated with the school was camping out all day and evaded questions about why they were there. It was commonplace to see a strange face in a room, say a breezy “Hi, how are you? Can I help you find someone?” and get a “Hi, I’m looking/waiting for [someone who works here].” If this person needs a warm and safe place to work uninterrupted, I’m sure they could do so in the library or any number of lounges that aren’t office break rooms.
Wingo Staww* January 13, 2025 at 1:16 pm Exactly this! We would usually have people coming through my building for tours, donor meetings, etc. but the context would be pretty clear.
RCB* January 13, 2025 at 1:01 am #2, she may already know that she used the wrong form of ano, but just couldn’t figure out how to get the n with the tilde on her keyboard and assumed that everyone knew what she meant despite the technically wrong word. I had this come up at New Years when I was going to text a few Latino friends in Spanish, but I could not figure out how to get the tilde so I gave up and reverted to English, but your colleague may have just decided to go with it nonetheless.
Matt* January 13, 2025 at 1:05 am I don’t speak Spanish, but there was this one meme about a sentence that could either translate to “My father is 47 years old”, which was probably intended, or “My potato has 47 anuses”, which left me in tears laughing ;)
HiddenT* January 13, 2025 at 2:18 am I was gonna mention that one too! For those curious: Mi papá tiene 47 años: “my father is 47 years old” Mi papa tiene 47 anos: “my potato has 47 anuses”
Grizabella the Glamour Cat* January 13, 2025 at 2:37 am Hilarious, but I think “Mi papá tiene 47 anos” would sound even funnier!
CityMouse* January 13, 2025 at 5:18 am The whole “I am 14/I have 14 anuses” is something they generally teach English speaking kids in the first week of Spanish to emphasize why you can’t ignore ñ or accents.
But what to call me?* January 14, 2025 at 7:21 pm They didn’t at my school and now I feel deprived of such a marvelous experience.
Dust Bunny* January 13, 2025 at 8:19 am One of my Spanish teachers (a cis man) once told someone he was pregnant. Permanently. He meant to say he was embarrassed. He devoted a big chunk of class time to this to make sure we all didn’t make the same mistake. “Soy embarazado” vs. “Estoy avergonzado”.
Christmas Carol* January 13, 2025 at 10:33 am I think if I was permanently pregnant I WOULD be embarassed.
Arrietty* January 13, 2025 at 10:56 am You’d be too exhausted for embarrassment after about 15 months, I reckon.
Rebecca* January 13, 2025 at 10:01 am When I arrived in France I insisted on a) speaking to the mother-in-law I was meeting for the first time in French and b) telling her about my pet cat.
Rebecca* January 13, 2025 at 10:03 am Submit error! I got the masculine and feminine forms mixed up when I was telling her about my cat, and much like some nicknames for cat in english, the one I ended up with was….less than savoury I ended up telling my too-polite-to-correct-me, very conservative mother-in-law how kind her son was to my gentials.
Lilia Calderu* January 13, 2025 at 11:16 am Omigod, this made me spit-my-coffee-on-my-keyboard laugh!
tes vitrines infinies, tes horizons dorees, je veux m'en passer* January 14, 2025 at 10:52 am Ah, that goes up there with my friend, who loudly proclaimed to the kindly (and rather old) hotel receptionist that she was horny, and if they could send maintenance up to fix her heater (j’suis chaud, vs. j’ai chaud). Poor thing!
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 1:22 am As someone that is a native speaker and generally knows the differences, most of the times due to predictive text I don’t even bother manually inserting the proper accents knowing that 99% of the time spell check/autocorrect will catch it and fix it for me. In the 1% of times it doesn’t catch it for some reason, (unless it is a formal communication/printed format) the extra time spent trying to search and find the right accent letter is not worth it. If I am writing in Spanish to someone they will almost certainly understand and excuse the typo.
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 2:35 am I’ve done the same, leaving out fádas in Irish. Especially if I’m on a phone, where it has a tendency to give me the wrong thing, à instead of á. Sometimes I just give up, figuring people will get it. (Predictive text is dire for Irish though.)
Banana Pyjamas* January 13, 2025 at 3:06 am You can’t just hold down the key on the keyboard to show the correct option? My keyboard is set to English, but I can still get all the available accents, tildes etc. Are fádas what you call the accents?
Nathan* January 13, 2025 at 6:37 am You can (usually, depending on the keyboard) on the phone. You can’t on a computer.
CheesePlease* January 13, 2025 at 8:38 am keeping track of all the alt codes for accents is very annoying. I type in Spanish frequently and it’s a pain. But if I’m communicating with another spanish speaker I often leave off some accents and tildes etc since they understand and do the same. It’s honestly not a thing that would make me laugh personally because it’s common with english-centered keyboards and spellcheck.
Dasein9 (he/him)* January 13, 2025 at 9:50 am We may even be witnessing a linguistic shift in communication, shaped by current tools. Only time will tell.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 11:30 am Yeah, I’m betting this isn’t even considered a joke for native Spanish speakers, just something that’s done so commonly it isn’t notable. Like the Minneapolis Pubic School District, it’s probably something you stomp snickering over in fourth grade. It reminds me of a “fun fact” about the speech John F. Kennedy gave in West Berlin pledging US support when it had been cut off by the Soviet Union. He said “Ich bin ein Berliner” which can be translated to mean “I am a Berliner [type of jelly donut]”. Absolutely zero native German speakers would have translated it that way, because it makes no sense in the context of a one of the most famous anti-communist speeches in history, but yes, technically it could be translated that way.
Kay* January 13, 2025 at 11:44 am Same – an error like the OPs wouldn’t even register since we all know what is being said. I would expect someone who didn’t speak/write a lot of spanish would be the one to bring this up.
iglwif* January 13, 2025 at 3:54 pm Plus also you have to have a keyboard with a number pad / have num lock on.
Qwerty* January 13, 2025 at 9:31 am You can install an international keyboard on a computer, which waits after you press a symbol like ‘ or ~ to see if it needs to be combined with your next key to produce an ñ However, I find this really annoying and my computer constantly flips back to the international keyboard when I want it to be on the default english one, so I only recommend it if you need those accents regularly.
Indolent Libertine* January 13, 2025 at 1:23 pm In the Apple universe, you *can* hold down the key on a computer and get a pop-up selection of various accents and other diacritical marks! There are 9 options for each of the vowels, up to 5 for some consonants and none for others. I think that’s baked into the OS (I’m on Sonoma 14.1.1) because it doesn’t only work inside a word processing program, it works even typing into this commenting field.
Dahlia* January 13, 2025 at 3:45 pm Your computer has a character map but you can also just copy and paste from google.
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 1:59 pm Yeah, the fáda is the accent. The word also means long and a fáda over a letter means it’s a long vowel.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 2:02 pm I never knew that and I’m happy to know it now! Thank you! :)
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 9:53 am Yeah, the Irish word for cake and the Irish word for poop are uh, way too similar.
allathian* January 13, 2025 at 2:09 pm Amazingly the same thing is true in Finnish, kakku=cake, kakka=poop! What are the Irish equivalents?
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 5:25 pm “Cáca” is cake and “caca” is poop. I guess it’a weirdly universal!
CityMouse* January 13, 2025 at 5:22 am Yes, the reality is everyone understood what she was saying and that kind of typo is incredibly common.
xylocopa* January 13, 2025 at 7:00 am Yep. Treat it like any other typo in chat–charitably ignore it.
xylocopa* January 13, 2025 at 7:45 am (….though having said that, all I can think about is posts I’ve read about someone making one silly typo in chat and it FOLLOWS THEM FOREVER because friends don’t let anything die.)
Butterfly Counter* January 13, 2025 at 9:41 am I assume it’s pretty similar to “public speaking” vs. “pubic speaking.”
Helen Waite* January 13, 2025 at 11:16 am This brings back sixth grade science class. The teacher asked one of my classmates to read from the textbook and instead of “organisms” she said “orgasms”. Cue the giggling.
Katrina* January 13, 2025 at 7:05 am So glad to hear this! My Spanish level is about on par with a kindergartener’s. (Which is to say I can communicate, but it’ll be slow and simple.) But reading #2, my first thought was, “I’m sure I’ve seen people who were definitely fluent texting in Spanish without tildes or accents before.” It sounds like the OP knows some words or phrases like the co-worker they’re thinking of correcting, but they might have a bit of a Dunning–Kruger effect going on. (That’s just the impression I got from how it’s written, though, so if you are fully fluent, OP2, please accept my apologies!)
Festively Dressed Earl* January 13, 2025 at 12:30 pm Less D/K, more that language/grammar nerds are universal. I say this with love as a grammar nerd who’s worked to overcome the correction urge myself. In this scenario, ask yourself if the mistake could realistically lead to misunderstanding or embarrassment. If the answer is no, let it go.
Katrina* January 13, 2025 at 5:10 pm That’s a fair take. I hope I didn’t come off as too harsh. Maybe projecting my own D/K tendencies a bit there. ^_^;;
Rebecca* January 13, 2025 at 10:00 am French is very much my second language and I leave accents up to auto-correct regularly unless I am writing something that needs to be very professional.
a clockwork lemon* January 13, 2025 at 12:48 pm This was my thought as well. I don’t speak Spanish but I do speak other languages that use diacritics and I don’t know many people who bother with the special characters if they don’t already have a dedicated letter on their keyboard. Context clues exist for a reason, and in this case there was clearly no confusion about what was being said. I’d be pretty confused if someone tried to correct something like this where it’s very clearly someone typing on an English-language keyboard where you have to know the dedicated shortcuts to get the tilde over the letter, and personally I don’t even think the translation “error” is that funny.
RC* January 13, 2025 at 2:40 pm FWIW, I’ve seen (native) Spanish speakers get around the “too lazy to change the keyboard” issue by replacing ñ with ni. So anio rather than anus. Not strictly correct either, but closer re: pronunciation and isn’t an existing different word. Similar to how German umlauts can be compensated with two letters e.g. Müller to Mueller. I’m maybe a bit too pedantic and will just change my keyboard (it’s like if your keyboard didn’t have an i, spelljng all words wjth j’s jnstead, because even though jt’s actually a djfferent letter, jt’s ljke pretty close, rjght?), but I get why people don’t bother.
Spanish Prof* January 13, 2025 at 1:24 am Spanish speakers will often use “ni” in place of ñ if on an English-set keyboard – as in “feliz cumpleanios”
Sashaa* January 13, 2025 at 7:15 am German adds an “e” in place of an Umlaut – ein Buch, zwei Buecher (zwei Bücher).
Seeking Second Childhood* January 13, 2025 at 7:41 am I am thinking now of “the knights who say Ni”… i would’t put it past the Pythons to make that esoteric a reference!
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 1:26 am I occasionally run into this problem when I’m typing German on a French computer keyboard and cannot get the ß, or French on a German computer keyboard and cannot get the ç. I usually solve it by going to find the letter elsewhere (as a last resort, I will google “sz” or “c cedille” and google will spit it out) and copy it in. I can’t remember the codes to generate them directly, but that would also be an option. I speak both languages well enough to know if it’s going to change the meaning – and I can’t think of a case where it would – but it bothers me enough to write it wrong that I try fairly hard not to. On a phone keyboard, generally you just hold the base letter down and get all the diacritics options in a popup menu, no matter the language setting, so typing it on a phone is also a solution.
Jill Swinburne* January 13, 2025 at 1:53 am In German, wouldn’t you just sub ‘ss’ for ß? I can’t speak to workarounds for other languages. (Sidenote: in the part of New Zealand I live in, the preferred way to spell words in Te Reo Maori is with double vowels ‘aa’ instead of using a macron (ā) as most other regions do. On the rare occasions I have to write a Te Reo word, this pleases me.)
amoeba* January 13, 2025 at 2:02 am You could, yes, but people who don’t realise you’re using a different keyboard might (and will, in my experience) assume you’re just bad at spelling! Source: I’m in Switzerland, where they decided a while ago to get completely rid of the ß, and I do regularly get that. “No, this is the correct way to spell it in Switzerland, actually!” (Also, when it’s in people’s names, it’s considered at least a bit impolite to not make the effort…)
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 2:23 am Yes, you can substitute, if you don’t have another option (it’s sort of… an emergency substitution, or a less-correct-but-not-incorrect spelling, which are concepts that do not exist in English spelling). As amoeba mentions, the Swiss got rid of the problem that way, but it still just looks visually wrong to me. It also – theoretically – changes the pronunciation in some cases, which is the reason it exists in the first place. It IS definitely better than substituting a capital B though, which I’ve seen, and is very jarring. I have thought of an example where it changes meaning, too: Maße (measurements) vs. Masse (mass). Not a funny switch like año/ano, but may lead to some confusion.
amoeba* January 13, 2025 at 3:19 am I used to live in Flössergasse for a while – it literally took me months to realise it was actually coming from Floß and related to rafting. I still pronounce it with a short ö in my head because I just… can’t get my head around it! (I have now given up and embraced the Swiss spelling myself though… if I ever move back, I’ll have a problem, haha!)
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 4:25 am It’s one of the funnier quirks of the German language that simply changing syllable length or changing which syllable is stressed will often make a word completely unintelligible to native speakers. I would have had the same problem with Flössergasse.
Matt* January 14, 2025 at 12:56 am In German the umlauts are not as critical as the accents in Spanish – you won’t create any unwanted meanings I can remember of. However, there are some funny things regarding capitalization: Wir haben in Moskau liebe Genossen – We have dear comrades in Moscow Wir haben in Moskau Liebe genossen – We enjoyed love in Moscow Der gefangene Floh – The caught flea Der Gefangene floh – The prisoner escaped
iglwif* January 13, 2025 at 3:58 pm That’s so interesting about the aa / ā! Many many years ago I copyedited a special issue of a journal in which all the articles used multiple Māori terms, but the font used to typeset the journal did not have ā in its glyph set. I don’t remember what solution we finally arrived at, but I do remember that it was a long and exhausting technical wrangle!
Mrs. Pommeroy* January 13, 2025 at 3:29 am On a phone, holding the base letter down might not give you all diacritics options, either! It can depend on which language your phone keyboard is set to. For example, to circumvent my phone’s unwillingness to write ç when the keyboard is simply set to English, I added French as a second language option to my keyboard. I can switch between both languages – which gives me a somewhat different keyboard layout, depending on which language I’ve chosen, and it also just gives me all diacritics I might need, including that formerly elusive ç, no matter which language I’ve currently chosen. Maybe this works for others, too.
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 3:55 am I’ve always assumed they were all there always because, for example, holding down a will give me à, á, â, ã, ä, å, æ, ā, ă, ą and ª, and some of those are definitely not in languages I use, or have set keyboard options for.
Mrs. Pommeroy* January 13, 2025 at 4:30 am It might depend on the phone or its’ operating system? I don’t know, really. I just know that before adding French to my keyboard language options, I had fewer diacritics to choose from. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 4:56 am Yeah, probably operating system, or some kind of different default keyboard setting. At least now I know a way to get them if they’re ever not there on a new phone!
iglwif* January 13, 2025 at 4:01 pm I (on an iphone) can get all the diacritics I can think of for vowels and most consonants from the English keyboard, but I can’t get ŵ. This has never been a problem except during the six months or so that I was doing Welsh on Duolingo!
TheOtherLaura* January 13, 2025 at 5:22 am I used “ALT + (ASCII Code typed on number bloc) when I had an US keyboard and was typing German on a Windows machine.
Nightengale* January 13, 2025 at 8:29 am I spent high school French using ASCII. At the time, everyone else was handwriting and I had permission to type because I had difficulty with writing. My spelling, poor in English, was even worse in French. Of course because I was learning the language but also because I had all these numbers embedded into the spellings of words. The one that sticks in my mind is: alt-130-l-alt-138-v-e.
Been There* January 13, 2025 at 7:10 am Me with the ë on an American keyboard. I tend to just type my word without the accent mark, people get my meaning.
lowstakesanswer* January 13, 2025 at 1:56 am I was in Mexico for New Years for the second time a few weeks ago, and there were several gold foil balloons that just said “Feliz ano nuevos” and I didn’t catch anyone batting an eye. If she was my friend I would assume she wasn’t making a typo and proceed to act accordingly, but for a colleague I can’t see any reason.
JSPA* January 13, 2025 at 5:24 am Yeah, enough people text without diacritics, and enough languages have removed or made-optional diacritics (especially when capitalized) that this is somewhere between a mistake, and “language in evolution.” I would not bring up anuses with a coworker, over a typed message. If she SAID it like that, I’d probably say it the right way, echoing her, and later say, “hey, there are a lot of words where the pronunciation of the tilde matters for the meaning, and año is one of them” (and let her google it). But once the moment is past I don’t think you can as easily go back without making it weird.
Reality.Bites* January 13, 2025 at 2:02 am Instead of speaking to her, you could invite her over and watch the Modern Family episode, “A Year of Birthdays” Phil says mi ano fui hermoso (My year was beautiful). Gloria corrects him about año and he replies, “Still works.”
Sharpie* January 13, 2025 at 2:57 am If you have an Android phone, you can hold down the vowels to get a selection of that vowel with various diacritics – e includes è and ê for French as well as ë for German and é for french and Spanish. And, helpfully, ē for Maōri and Hawaiian, as well as for those of us who have been known to want the long vowels in Latin. And doing the same for n gets the ñ. If you’re talking pre-smart phones, some of them offered diacritics the same way: hold down the relevant button.
Seven hobbits are highly effective, people* January 13, 2025 at 3:40 am I have a close friend with an ñ in his last name, so I’m pretty used to getting accents on different computer setups. In case this comes up for you again: First thing to try is to hold down the n key. On most phone keyboard and Mac OS computers, this will bring up selectable accent options. On Windows the [WinKey]+[.] keyboard shortcut brings up the “emoji keyboard”, which also lets you select accented letters, math symbols, and various other Unicode non-emoji things.
Annie* January 13, 2025 at 12:24 pm Thanks for the Windows key + . shortcut, that helps! I usually am inserting symbols but sometimes the symbol I use most recently somehow goes away and I have to search. The Windows [.] seems like it’s much easier to use!
Despachito* January 13, 2025 at 4:06 am It is so low-stakes I’d leave it alone, unless you are positive she is a good sport and will laugh about that. Finding tildes and other signs on a keybord that does not have them ready is such a hassle I fully understand someone doesn’t want to do that in casual conversations.
BaalLikeBocce* January 13, 2025 at 6:52 am I live in Spain and am nearly fluent in Spanish but not native. I have the Spanish keyboard set up on my phone (easy) but not on my laptop because I can’t remember where the punctuation moves to when I change keyboards. This means when I whatsapp friends from my computer, I don’t include any accents or the ñ because pausing after every word to look up the characters is extremely tedious when everyone knows what I mean, and I have written about años as such. All that to say – everyone would know what they’re going for. OP2 could point it out as a “haha did you know that ano and año” mean different things” but I don’t (personally) know a single native speaker who would do anything more than smile (if that)
amoeba* January 13, 2025 at 7:39 am I am so, so happy there’s a Swiss French option for typing in French – I definitely can’t deal with AZERTY (the French French one). Swiss French is basically like Swiss German but with more accent thingies instead of Umlauts. It’s very convenient (and also available on Duolingo, where the other one was killing me!)
Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est* January 13, 2025 at 8:09 am As many people who have been impressed that I can type all the accents and diacritics for Spanish in Windows over the years, that’d be my thought, too. She possibly knows and couldn’t get the keyboard to reflect her knowledge. Advice is similar to Alison’s. If I had that relationship with Mary, I’d probably set her up with a copy of the traditional Spanish alphabet (I learned the 30 letter variant, e.g. https://spanish411.net/Spanish-Alphabet.asp) that she can copy-and-paste out of, and if it is a learn-the-language journey, I’d wait for her to express interest before trying to help her there.
Texan In Exile* January 13, 2025 at 10:08 am Yeah, there is not an easy, obvious way to get a tilde on a keyboard. I can do it on my phone, but I am not going to look up some weird “alt+F3+8630” code. I am fluent in Spanish and my Spanish-speaking friends know I am fluent and they also know that English keyboard don’t have a ~n. Don’t say anything to her.
umami* January 13, 2025 at 10:19 am Yeah, I assume she didn’t know how to do the tilde, not that anyone would misinterpret what she was intending to say. This is one of those funny stories to share, not to act on.
Ontariariario* January 13, 2025 at 10:38 am I occasionally write emails in French and if it’s a formal email then I’m careful about the accents, but if it’s to a coworker that I’ve known for years then I don’t bother with them. It’s very possible that OP’s coworker knew it was wrong, but thought it would give a few people a good laugh. I’ve done that too, as my favourite francophone coworker loves wordplay. For example, did you know that the letters GPT (as in Chat GPT) in French is jay-pay-tay, or J’ai pété, translated back to English as I farted.
WillowSunstar* January 13, 2025 at 11:04 am Yes, the only way I know of to get the tilde is to use character map. I learned German in high school in the 90’s and have occasionally typed up letters to a friend in Germany to this day. The umlaut is in the character map also.
Lydia* January 13, 2025 at 11:20 am As soon as I read the letter, I knew exactly which mistake was being made.
fhqwhgads* January 13, 2025 at 12:15 pm Yeah, I think the question isn’t “does she know she used the wrong form but figured it was obvious enough anyway” but “does she know that what she typed has an actual other meaning?” Like it’s one thing to make a typo and not really worry about it because it’s obvious from context what you meant, but it’s a slightly different thing when the typo is also a real word you’d probably not say at work? If you meant to type “add” but typed “ad”, meh everybody gets it. If you meant to type “add” and typed “ass” probably everybody still gets it, but if it seems like you don’t know what “ass” means, it can be worth pointing out.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 1:15 pm This. I have a very hard time making a letter with a tilde on a standard American keyboard. I usually have to Google the code and twist my hand into a pretzel to type it. “Feliz año nuevo” requires ALT0241 for the ñ, and the numbers have to be typed on the number pad, so if you have a short keyboard, like most laptops, you won’t be able to do it.
Catherine* January 13, 2025 at 1:50 pm My financial advisor is in Quebec (I’m in Ontario) and I think he writes his monthly newsletters in French and then translates them using an app. (or gmail was being helpful, it was hard to tell.) After a few months, I couldn’t keep it to myself anymore and had to break it to him that him signing off as Peter was being translated as well. Peter in French means “to fart”. All his communications ended with “Cheers! To fart.”
socalterp* January 13, 2025 at 3:11 pm I knew an attorney who was convinced that he spoke Spanish. Whenever he didn’t know a word, he would just look it up in a dictionary and use the first word that came up. However, there is a word for “catch” that is perfectly acceptable in all Spanish-speaking countries EXCEPT Mexico and Argentina. To people from those countries, that word means f***. When urging his Mexican clients to tell the truth in a deposition, he would warn them about what would happen if “they catch you lying”. If he wasn’t such a jerk, I would have quietly warned him. Instead I got a big laugh every time he said it.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 1:04 am The ‘low fat’ issue reminds me of an issue we faced with one of my kids who for medical reasons had to be on a very low fat diet because otherwise she developed pancreatitis — luckily this is something that about half the kids who have it outgrow it and she did, but it is incredibly painful and debilitating and potentially dangerous to have constant flare ups. when in restaurants we would get waitresses who would snarl ‘she doesn’t look fat to me.’ or make other rude remarks. One of the things I did to help her feel less deprived was to find fancy things that were low fat. One of those was a shrimp cocktail which was fancy and tasty but low fat made with no mayo. Literal strangers in restaurants would see this 6 year old kid with her gorgeous shrimp cocktail in the fancy glass and make insulting remarks about her or our parenting ‘Well isn’t she the fancy one’; ‘does she always get what she demands’ or ‘you are going to regret spoiling her.’ People.
Roeslein* January 13, 2025 at 1:53 am OP here – this is the condition I have although obviously I am unlikely to outgrow at this point! I know realise I had it as a kid as well, but it wasn’t diagnosed so folks mostly thought I was a food snob for hot wanting to eat fast food.
Action Kate* January 13, 2025 at 6:05 am You listed several milk-related foods. If those are your main problem foods, could you ask for “no dairy”? It’s simple, straightforward, and unlikely to get raised eyebrows from coworkers.
Seeking Second Childhood* January 13, 2025 at 7:55 am I’d actually expand it to “can only digest a small amount of fat at one time” if any could trigger it, because there are so many non-dairy options! Lard, canola, schmaltz, peanut oil, avocado oil, even coconut oil.
Roeslein* January 13, 2025 at 7:57 am Thanks, OP here – that might work in some cases, although I drink my coffee with a ridiculous amount of skimmed milk (which I bring to the office myself, as standard office milk is semi-skimmed)) so actually coworkers are unlikely to believe I can’t have dairy. I mentioned full-fat dairy and mayo because they are most common in my experience, but there are also a lot of vegan foods I can’t have (basically anything deep fried or oily).
Daisy-dog* January 13, 2025 at 9:56 am You can describe it better to your co-workers, but give more general “overview” requirements to caterers or for ordering at restaurants! Just explain, “Yes, I can do dairy when I pick it out because I know the specific requirements. But for this order, could you ask them to prepare a plate without dairy?” You’re not lying, you’re making it easier to work for this situation. For instance, a co-worker gives his middle name at restaurants that call out names when orders are ready. His name is Ryan which is very common and causes confusion with orders. He explained it to us and we understand that he didn’t lie about his name.
Fashion Show at Lunch!* January 13, 2025 at 11:23 am @Roeslein or @Artemesia, I’m very curious to know the official name of the diagnosis if you’re willing to share. About five years ago, I started feeling ill for days after eating anything cream-based, which it took me ages to narrow down because the effects kept happening after every meal, long after I’d had the offending cream. I recently had a similar reaction after having too much fried food, so I’d really like to ask my gastroenterologist if this diagnosis might apply to me.
Hroethvitnir* January 13, 2025 at 1:19 pm Not one of those commenters, but hereditary pancreatitis (yep, that’s the name) is a rare, inherited form of chronic pancreatitis and the major cause of acute pancreatitis in children, so quite possibly that.
Prefer my furballs* January 13, 2025 at 2:39 pm You might want to also ask about gall bladder function… I’ve now known 2 people who ended up needing their gall bladders removed and for both of them the first symptoms were feeling incredibly ill for about 24 hrs after eating full-fat dairy or rich egg dishes that used either duck eggs or all egg yolks without the dilution of whites.
moql* January 13, 2025 at 3:22 pm I’ve recently been diagnosed with atypical cystic fibrosis, which can cause intermittent pancreatitis. I would recommend looking up the symptoms to that just in case, as otherwise you might be diagnosed with pancreas issues and miss a potentially larger picture.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:10 pm Yes this was one of the things ruled out for our daughter. It is a common symptom with undiagnosed cystic fibrosis.
Chauncy Gardener* January 13, 2025 at 12:11 pm I have this issue, although it’s related to my gall bladder. I can’t eat mayo, sour cream, cream, and deep fried foods. And I hate mustard. I just say I need none of the above items. All salad dressings on the side. Any sour cream toppings on the side. Condiments on the side. But honestly, I’ve been to work lunches etc where there has been nothing for me to eat aside from a bag of potato chips or a banana. How hard is it to put condiments on the side for a sandwich platter? As hard as it is to have some other sandwiches besides egg salad and chicken salad….
Paint N Drip* January 14, 2025 at 1:09 pm Organizers want a piece of fruit to be a meal so badly lmao As someone allergic to eggs, chicken, and tuna, those “mixed salads sandwich plates” that caterers LOVE are the bane of my existence at any large meeting, conference, funeral, etc.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 2:08 pm My wife has a problem with too much fat – due to gall bladder issues. I have some problem, but it’s mostly due to a soybean oil intolerance and a dairy intolerance. My wife ends up in the hospital with gall bladder attacks, I “just” end up on the toilet for an hour with an explosive afterburner. If my wife just said she wanted to avoid fat, she’d get some crap about how it’s actually sugar that makes people fat, blah, blah, blah. Then she’d have to say “No, too much fat makes my gall bladder act up and I don’t want to go to the ER.” That would shut them up.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 2:57 pm If my wife just said she wanted to avoid fat, she’d get some crap about how it’s actually sugar that makes people fat, blah, blah, blah That’s just so infuriating. The assumption that people are focused only on losing weight is insane – even if that person is genuinely overweight! I *am* overweight. But I avoid the foods I do because they make me feel sick, not because they might make me fat(er).
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 8:57 pm I am also overweight, so I get it too. But I’m blunter: “No, too much oil, especially soybean oil, will give me explosive diarrhea.” Then again, I enjoy making diet pushers uncomfortable.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:08 pm Sorry you didn’t have the luck to outgrow it as it is really a pain on so many levels. It is apparently genetic and runs in my husband’s family unknown to us. She did outgrow it in her teen years but was on a very low fat diet for many years which did prevent flare ups.
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 2:06 am What has to be wrong with you that you object to a kid enjoying her food in any, but especially a fancy way? My parents used to take us out specifically so we could eat ice cream out of tall sundae glasses! Also, what do they think is going to happen to her personality and manners? Is she going to start blurting out negative, rude and unhappy comments to people who are just enjoying their food?
Grizabella the Glamour Cat* January 13, 2025 at 2:48 am This is one is one of those times when I wish AAM has a “like” button! Since we didn’t, I’ll just do this: *LIKE*
N C Kiddle* January 13, 2025 at 5:45 am A lot of people have this idea that giving children too many nice things is somehow bad for them. When my kid was very young, my mum told me I should always say no when she asked for anything, which seemed like an utterly bizarre rule to me. I argued with her to no avail and then quietly gave my kid anything reasonable that she asked for.
GrumpyPenguin* January 13, 2025 at 7:07 am To quote Calvin&Hobbes: “Being miserable builds character!”
Jackalope* January 13, 2025 at 8:38 am Yeah, it’s important for kids to learn to deal with frustration, but there are plenty of things they ask for that you have to say no on, so it’s not like you’ll lack for opportunity to teach them that! Examples from my memory include don’t go into the street by yourself, no picking paint flecks off the wall, don’t throw rocks at people even as a game, etc…… It’s just a thing that comes up regularly.
Turquoisecow* January 13, 2025 at 9:22 am There will be plenty of opportunities for kids to be disappointed in life without their parents needing to be one of the causes.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 11:45 am I feel this so much with concepts of fairness. I’ve noticed some parents practically bullying their kids because “life isn’t fair”. No shit life isn’t fair. The whole world is steeped in inequality and injustice, if you don’t wear blinders. But why would you want to bring that into your relationship with your kid?
Heffalump* January 14, 2025 at 10:14 am “Others do wrong, therefore I may do wrong” has never sat well with me.
Le Sigh* January 13, 2025 at 12:37 pm Not quite sure how to articulate this, but it also seems like a great way to ensure your kids don’t take you seriously. If your parent says no to everything without even listening, even if it’s reasonable, then what’s the point? Why listen to them if they never listen to you? I remember the friends of mine with parents like this, and as we got older we just didn’t tell them anything and snuck around. Was a lot easier that way.
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 10:04 am Exactly! also, what if it’s the child’s birthday, or other celebration and she’s allowed to have whatever she wants?
Coffee Protein Drink* January 13, 2025 at 10:10 am Even if you put aside physical dietary restrictions, some kids are really picky and it’s hard to get them to eat more than a few things. If there’s something at a restaurant they like, let them eat and enjoy!
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 2:09 pm And some of those “really picky” kids have undiagnosed issues. I was a really picky kid and remain a really picky adult. I am now fairly sure it’s a sensory issue but as a child and into my 20s or 30s, I assumed everybody found the foods they disliked as unpleasant to eat as I did and that most people just had less foods they disliked. I was well into adulthood before I noticed that people could eat foods they claimed to hate without visably gagging. So yeah, as a kid and young adult, even I thought I was “just picky.” There are so many possible eating issues a person can have and mild ones can very easily go overlooked – intolerances, sensory issues, etc. So yeah, I default to assuming a good reason if somebody says they can’t eat something. Not saying that some kids just don’t get a thing in their heads about “I’m not eating that food ’cause I don’t like the colour” or whatever too and some kids claim to hate stuff and then eat it normally when they grow older. Just adding that kids can have food related issues without even their parents being aware of them.
Space Needlepoint* January 13, 2025 at 2:44 pm Also true. I know a couple whose child has ARFID–Avoidant/Restrictive Food Intake Disorder. Their kid’s subtype was that of almost no interest in foods, though there is also a subtype where sensory issues come into play. Before they learned of the disorder, they thought of the kid as picky.
learnedthehardway* January 13, 2025 at 10:33 am I think I would respond to unsolicited comments with exactly this: “Is she going to start blurting out negative, rude and unhappy comments to people who are just enjoying their food?” and stare them down. I once had to tell a restaurant manager to “BACK OFF” when she reacted badly to my 2 yo getting upset. They had given him a pile of toys and then tried to snatch them back (literally) when his food arrived. My son has ASD (which we didn’t know at the time), but you don’t do that with any small child – it’s absolutely calculated to provoke a meltdown in any toddler. The restaurant manager handled it so badly that we (my mother-in-law, son, and I) left. I told the restaurant manager that she was behaving worse than my child, and that she should be ashamed of herself.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:13 pm It was so weird. And it happened several times not just once. She was so often deprived of good stuff — icing and ice cream at birthday parties for example. Lots of really tasty stuff is full of fat. So I really wanted to find things she could have that would be fun for her and not make her feel deprived while the rest of us had hamburgers or hot dogs, or eggs benedict. The shrimp cocktail was a real favorite.
Anax* January 13, 2025 at 2:12 am Oh gosh, I’m so glad she grew out of it; that sounds terribly painful. My dad had pancreatic cancer and a Whipple procedure (several organs removed), and he’s had trouble with high-fat foods since then. He’s used a description something like … “My stomach has trouble with greasy and oily foods,” and that’s been relatively effective – not perfect, but most people seem to have a good sense of what a “greasy/oily” food might be, while “high fat” seems to just be shorthand for “unhealthy” in a lot of minds.
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 2:39 am Yikes, those people are horrible. Why should a child who likes shrimp cocktail not get it, regardless of reason? It’s not “spoiling” any more than getting a kid an ice cream is. And as for those waitresses… “She doesn’t look fat!”
KateM* January 13, 2025 at 4:19 am I have understood that that’s what Celiacs get all the time. “Come on, take a slice of this cake, you can afford it, you are so thin!”
Verity Kindle* January 13, 2025 at 6:27 am The assumption that women’s food choices are driven solely by their weight is maddening.
londonedit* January 13, 2025 at 6:53 am Yep. My sister has had to avoid dairy and gluten since her late teens, and while there are usually decent menu options these days, because cafes and restaurants are legally obliged to be aware of allergies and also because vegan diets have become more popular, 15 or 20 years ago that wasn’t always the case. So she’d usually end up finding something on the menu that she could eat as long as there were a couple of substitutions. I remember more than once sitting with her as she ordered, say, a chicken salad but with balsamic dressing and no croutons, and hearing someone on a nearby table strike up a pointed conversation about ‘Young women these days and their ridiculous fad diets’. One time she did actually look over and say ‘Actually I have [medical condition], if that’s OK with you?’ and the person did at least look sheepish, but it’s ridiculous how people think they have the right to judge what others are eating (especially women).
Totally Minnie* January 13, 2025 at 7:55 am I have a digestive disorder that if left untreated, can cause damage that leads to cancer, which actually happened to one of my family members a few years ago. So I’m pretty careful about taking my medication and avoiding trigger foods. And I’ve gone full “traumatize them back” mode for people who decide they get to nitpick my food choices without knowing anything about me. If they’re going to be rude enough to comment on the food choices of someone they don’t know, then I don’t feel a need to treat them with any special level of politeness.
Chauncy Gardener* January 13, 2025 at 12:14 pm Good for you!! Gawd, I hate when people comment like that.
Salty Caramel* January 13, 2025 at 10:15 am Commercials that show women expressing the same delight one might reserve for their wedding day when they’re eating a non-fat yogurt or a salad that looks like nothing but iceberg lettuce doesn’t help.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 2:14 pm Yeah, seriously. While both can be tasty, none are “wedding day” tasty.
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 2:52 am Oh man, people. I’ve never understood those that object to children having nice things, or “adulty” things as a treat. That’s not what being spoiled is. I see how having low-fat conflated with diet food instead of being perceived as a medical necessity would be a frequent problem. I had a simular issue when I had gestational diabetes that was managed with food choices only. I was looking for low-sugar and generally low-simple-carb foods and recipes, and everything was touted as “low-calorie”, or “weightloss”. Which was not what I was trying to do! My nutrionist was worried I wasn’t getting enough calories! When eating anywhere, I didn’t talk about needing low-carb, because being pregnant also very much seems to invite stranger’s judgment. I went hungry a few times, but luckily it was a temporary condition, unlike for the LW.
KateM* January 13, 2025 at 4:20 am Ha, I was put on diet for gestational diabetes about two months before EDD and I lost two kilos in a month – my obgyn was a bit worried but comforted us with the thought that I was pretty heavy to start with.
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 4:53 am I did not lose weight, which I credit to my copious consumption of nut butters with berries anytime I craved something “sweet”. Not a cheap solution to the problem, though.
Koala* January 13, 2025 at 3:33 pm I had GD and hyperemesis and there were about 5 foods I was able to eat. I lost about 30 pounds (13 kilos) during that pregnancy. And the baby was HYOOGE (8 years later he continues to be HYOOGE).
XF1013* January 13, 2025 at 5:03 am Can confirm. I have my own medical reason for eating low-fat. It’s quite frustrating to search online for low-fat foods, only for search engines to return lots of information about low-calorie foods, as if they are synonymous.
Sam* January 13, 2025 at 7:13 am We really need to clearly distinguish diet changes from weight loss. Because losing weight isn’t the answer & can derail people’s health. For example they can get fixated on losing weight instead of reducing salt intake (if they have a condition making them retain water). Or reduce food portions when they need to reduce sugar intake because of diabetes.
Jane Anonsten* January 13, 2025 at 10:35 am But how will that help them lose weight /s (our culture around “wellness” is so, so messed up)
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 11:56 am Wouldn’t it be awesome if we could search for the nutrients we need or need to avoid without the underlying assumptions? I actually do not need more fiber or less sodium in my diet. Yes, I know most Americans do. I am not an average, though.
Turquoisecow* January 13, 2025 at 9:26 am Gestational diabetes was so *hard.* One good thing about being pregnant during the pandemic was that we didn’t go out to eat or see anyone so I didn’t have to explain my very convoluted reasons to other people, like figuring out what on a menu I could order or explaining to either my mom or my mother-in-law why I could eat this but not that thing they ordered. I also lost weight when I was first diagnosed (plus I lost weight because I was nauseous the first four months), and it was probably the only time in my life that my doctors were not overjoyed that was happening. I also was overweight so the weight loss was not as concerning as it would have been on a skinnier person. (I ended up overall managing it well as my kid was healthy and small, but man what a pain.)
Media Monkey* January 13, 2025 at 5:15 am i have a friend whose daughter has a ton of allergies – gluten, lactose, soy and various fruits and vegetables, to the point where if her bread is cut with a knife used to cut normal break she will be ill. she learned early on that she could only take food from her parents, and the amount of hassle my friend got for not letting her have a biscuit (she can have a biscuit, just not one of those biscuits) was insane!
Sashaa* January 13, 2025 at 7:41 am That is such a bizarre response from other people – when I was a kid in the 80s in the UK, prawn cocktail was an entirely normal starter, on the menu at every family restaurant – on a par with garlic dough balls, bruschetta or soup now. Not a treat, just food. Foreign food, like Chinese or Italian, was seen as fancy. A child eating sushi might have got some comments. Frozen prawns in mayonnaise wouldn’t. It was a very popular sandwich filling (less so now). It is even a definitely non-fancy crisp flavour – Skips are about on a par with pickled onion flavoured Monster Munch or Cheetos in terms of classiness.
bamcheeks* January 13, 2025 at 9:08 am People are deeply weird, but I’m also stuck on adults thinking that shrimp cocktail is Fancy Enough to justify disapproving? I mean, if you don’t have mayonnaise/Marie-Rose sauce, it’s basically lettuce and some prawns? It is very much designed to look fancy, but actually a super simple and cheap dish!
Clisby* January 13, 2025 at 9:48 am Yeah, I grew up in coastal South Carolina, and the idea that a 6-year-old eating shrimp was being “spoiled” would have been deeply weird. Heaven knows how they’d react to a 6-year-old eating blue crab.
Chauncy Gardener* January 13, 2025 at 12:17 pm Or lobster here in New England. It was $.99 per pound in the grocery store when I was growing up. Cheaper than steak oh judgmental people.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 3:03 pm People are deeply weird, but I’m also stuck on adults thinking that shrimp cocktail is Fancy Enough to justify disapproving? Yup. People are *definitely* weird. But I’m stuck on the idea that *any* level of “fancy” justifies disapproving. Like you could be in the fanciest, most upscale restaurant and the kid gets the fanciest, most expensive item on the menu. I still can’t see how that would justify disapproving. I mean if I saw that, I might think it’s odd, because a lot of things are odd. But that’s very different that “disapproving” (or approving). Unless you* are in the inner circle you have no standing to have an opinion, much less passing judgement. I realize that you are not claiming that there is a level where it’s appropriate to pass judgement. I’m just saying that I think the whole idea is deeply out of line. *Generic you.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:19 pm Well jumbo shrimp have never been cheap here, but they were hung over a tulip glass rim with red seafood sauce (basically ketchup and horseradish) in the center — so no mayo. And expensive enough that people would not ordinarily buy it for a child as a starter especially given children’s. menus of chicken fingers, hot dogs and french fries/chips or mac and cheese. It looked very fancy to our daughter and she was delighted to have it.
Anax* January 13, 2025 at 10:31 pm I grew up in the Midwest, and that’s the kind of shrimp cocktail I grew up with! The mayo/Marie-Rose sauce made me do a double-take, lol. I would have loved that as a little kid; shrimp cocktail was one of my favorite dinners. Glad you found solutions that worked for your daughter.
SuprisinglyADHD* January 13, 2025 at 10:47 am That’s absolutely baffling to me, I’m so sorry your family was treated that way! Growing up, we always had waitstaff who were shocked that the young kids wanted to split the pasta or seafood dishes off the adult menu rather than have a plate of dry chicken nuggets. But that was worry about wasted food, not their parenting skills or us being spoiled! The number of times my parents had to sit there and convince them that “no, they’re not gonna take one bite each and send it back, they can eat [penne with meat sauce/steamed fish in butter/clam chowder] without behaving like animals” We never got mean comments from anyone though, I can’t even IMAGINE my parents reaction if some random person from another table started insulting us but it wouldn’t have been pretty…
Jules the First* January 13, 2025 at 3:37 pm As a five year old child I once shocked a waiter by ordering the “lapin aux bluets” and when he, not realising we were bilingual as well as sharp-eared, hurriedly and quietly queried my parents on whether I knew what the dish was or if he should ask the chef to substitute chicken, I calmly announced that “yes, bunnies are cute and also tasty!” This particular bunny was indeed memorably tasty…
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:22 pm Lapin literally tastes like chicken LOL. But I prepared rabbit in mustard sauce in Paris for my husband’s birthday dinner last year and had invited a visiting US friend who declared they ‘didn’t eat rabbit’ — Rather than change the menu, I just did a couple chicken quarters in the same prep for them. I could have done the whole dish in chicken and do it in the US but in Paris it is easy to get rabbit hind quarters for the dish or whole rabbits if you wish.
WillowSunstar* January 13, 2025 at 11:07 am Yeah, people policing the food choices of others is a pet peeve of mine to this day, but I had a fat-phobic mother who forced me on WW and have several relatives like that also. If people could just remain silent about what others eat, that would be great.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 2:19 pm You too, huh. I hate WW with the fire of a thousand suns. Half of my weirdness around weighing food comes from WW.
Alex* January 13, 2025 at 11:49 am Man, you can’t win. Criticized for feeding your child shrimp cocktail??? I bet those same people would criticize you for feeding her a happy meal as well.
Artemesia* January 13, 2025 at 6:23 pm A lot of Americans have weird ideas about kids foods. I remember my own mother an excellent cook, throwing a loaf of bread into my cart when I had chosen an artisanal wheat loaf saying ‘well the kids won’t eat that.’ The kids of course ate what they had always been fed and so wouldn’t eat the squishy white bunny bread.
nnn* January 13, 2025 at 1:07 am I think the first step for #1 is to be able to articulate (to the young man in question/to building management/to security) why his sitting around in your cafe is different from sitting around in other university cafes or nearby cafes. Many universities have (or have historically had) a strong public space culture, with a high tolerance for random people being around compared with office buildings etc. Within a university, if someone is in a cafe or a library or on a random bench in a hallway, it’s highly unlikely that anyone would question whether they belong there. There usually isn’t anything stopping members of the public from walking into a university building to use a washroom or get a coffee, or any rules against doing so. There isn’t really the concept of an “unauthorized visitor”. Is your building different from the rest of the university in this regard? If yes, how so? For example, the letter mentions that the building is not owned by the university but it does house many departments. Does that mean it’s not part of the campus but people might mistake it for part of the campus? If yes, that’s the starting point for your approach. “This building isn’t actually part of the campus – there’s a campus cafeteria in Other Building” Or maybe it’s something else. Maybe it’s that the building requires fob access? Maybe it’s whatever it is about your work that has you working in a fob access environment rather than an open campus environment? Maybe your campus isn’t open, unlike other campuses that newbies may have attended previously? Or maybe it’s just that he was making noise? Whatever it is, the crucial starting point is identifying what exactly it is about this situation that’s different from the unremarkable everyday situation of some guy sitting in a university cafeteria using his laptop.
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 1:27 am Except part of the issue seems to be the space is open to the o public 9 to 5 mon. thru Fri. but not other times.
Clisby* January 13, 2025 at 12:43 pm To me that’s the biggest part of the issue. And it’s not necessarily just this guy – if he can get in on weekends when he shouldn’t, how do you know other people can’t? Security ought to focus on that first.
Nina* January 13, 2025 at 3:47 am 1) he is spending a lot of time there (this is different to like, if he was hanging out there for an hour a week while waiting for a bus or whatever, which would be completely normal at most universities I’m familiar with) 2) he is being disruptive (playing loud videos even when asked to stop) 3) he knows he isn’t meant to be there this much, because he’s lying to people and saying he works in X or Y department 4) he’s been spotted there on weekends when the building is closed to people without fob/card access, suggesting he’s circumventing security measures already 5) what’s on the floors or in the rooms that are fob access Monday to Friday and is he going to try circumventing those security measures too?
Emmy Noether* January 13, 2025 at 4:15 am In my experience, most universities have spaces that are actually public (often in the buildings where the lecture halls, libraries, cafeterias are), and office and lab spaces (and living spaces) that aren’t really. They might be accessible to the public in case someone needs to speak to their professor or something, but you’re not supposed to hang around there without a reason to specifically be there. It’s not clear, but the LW’s reaction makes me think that this isn’t a “café” in the sense of somewhere the general public may buy a coffee and a snack (otherwise I’d think his presence would be unremarkable, since he’d be one of many members of the public in the space), but more of a breakroom. Even if it is a café for the public, he shouldn’t be there when it’s closed and requires fob access.
Antilles* January 13, 2025 at 8:58 am This. The fact that some areas of campus that are always open to the public and would be totally fine with visitors doesn’t suddenly mean that all buildings fall under that standard. I would also note that the use of the phrase “cafe/kitchen space” and the fact it’s in a locked building makes me personally envision something much closer to an office-style “break room” than a typical cafe where you expect random people to just come in and walk by.
Starbuck* January 13, 2025 at 1:47 pm Yes, at my big public R1 school even as a student there were areas I could not go into after hours if I didn’t have a reason to be in that lab/office building. There was a 24-hour library, many cafes and lobbies and other spaces that were easy to camp out in that no one would notice or care. But especially the places where grad students were doing work, you needed a reason to be there. It’s obvious this building is not the kind of place where it’s appropriate for a random unaffiliated person to hang out all day in.
Snarky McSnarkerson* January 13, 2025 at 7:53 am You could contact the university’s real estate office and get THEM to pressure the landlord/management company. Since the building is not owned by the university, someone had to negotiate the lease and is paying the rent.
ILoveLlamas* January 13, 2025 at 1:47 pm Actually I would suggest Real Estate, Risk Management and Campus Security. Risk Management may be the one to sound a stronger alarm because it will be ultimately their problem if something goes wrong. Let those 3 groups deal with Property Management. Also, you may want to suggest that whoever handles key fob access reviews their list to make sure only current employees/ students have active fobs. Sometimes fobs aren’t deactivated..ll
Dust Bunny* January 13, 2025 at 8:24 am Also the university doesn’t own this building, so it sounds like maybe it’s leased for office or department work space, and buildings like that, in my experience, are typically less public than, say, the student union. Where I went to school it would have been fine for anyone to come order a sandwich at the student grille and hang out, provided they weren’t hogging space during busy hours and weren’t being disruptive (which is apparently not entirely the case here), but it would have been weird for a non-student to study in the science building library, which was, yes, accessible without a key card but still not a PUBLIC public space.
Tigres* January 13, 2025 at 10:02 am Semi-related side-note, but I was recently travelling and needed to check something in a particular scientific reference book, so I walked to the nearest university, tried to see if I could get to their science library without a swipe card (I could), and then had a conversation with a *baffled* student explaining that I was a researcher at another university in a different country, but could I just use their library for, like, half an hour, pretty please. (It worked, but, y’know, I had to have that conversation with them, even though I guess I could visually pass as a grad student and there wasn’t actually anything stopping me from just walking in. Which is wild to me, as our libraries are all swipe-card-only, but my point is that even if you can physically get somewhere it doesn’t mean that you have the right to be there.)
Dust Bunny* January 13, 2025 at 10:33 am Yeah, that seems reasonable. I think at mine if you explained why you were there it wouldn’t have been an issue. I currently work in basically a medical school library and if you had an explanation for why you were here, we would totally let you in off the street and help you. But we don’t take daily campers-out who aren’t here to use our materials (my department doesn’t have student-use computers, although the library proper does).
kalli* January 13, 2025 at 2:46 pm At my university, members of the public can go to the library main counter and get a guest pass that lets them put money on for the photocopiers, log in to the computers to use the journal search etc… but has to be renewed every 3 calendar days and can only be used at the main campus library, not the specialist branches. It’s a thing and people can reasonably expect the thing as long as they follow the process. But there has to be a process and people have to enforce it, which is where LW1’s situation is failing.
Pickles* January 13, 2025 at 9:56 am I feel like the LW has reported this to the proper authorities and is not in charge of security. She has done all she needs to. He’s not regularly bothering her. Just move on with her day. Let it go. It’s not her problem to solve.
toolegittoresign* January 13, 2025 at 1:17 pm I would take the approach of just talking to him during the times when the public is allowed there like one would speak to any other regular to get to know them. If he’s approached with friendliness rather than interrogation or suspicion, you’re much more likely to find out what’s going on. Plus, if you manage to get on friendly terms, it’s easier to ask him to abide by the rules. “Hey, we really can’t have you listening to videos out loud here. Can you not do that anymore?” and “Oh, sorry, we’re actually not open to the public right now. You’re welcome here Monday through Friday but not on the weekends. There’s another cafe down the street you can go to!” The issue with profiling is often it’s just that you’re not treating a person like a person, but like Someone Who Looks Like They Do Not Belong. Treat him like he’s supposed to be there and see if that gets you anywhere. If he reacts badly to any attempt to make conversation, then you have better grounds to get him to leave.
musical chairs* January 13, 2025 at 1:14 am Calling campus security to a building the university does not own, at best, would do nothing, and, at worst, could make a potentially escalated situation (that you worry could be seen as racially charged) appear that much worse. The guy isn’t leaving when you say you’ve asked him to do so after being disruptive. Stop asking him passive aggressive questions like “who do you work for” and tell building management that he’s making noise in common areas and won’t leave when asked. Confirm with them that they won’t engage real or campus police, but do get them to do their jobs in their building.
Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic* January 13, 2025 at 1:32 am Maybe start by asking *why* he’s always around?
Sharpie* January 13, 2025 at 3:04 am Apparently OP and others have tried asking questions like that and he just mumbles something at them.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:12 am That’s what stood out to me. A lot of commenters seem to be giving him a lot of benefit of the doubt (which I usually try to do!) but the fact that according to LW he’s repeatedly mumbled an answer and then refused to repeat himself because he “already answered,” and at least once directly lied, means he knows he’s doing something he shouldn’t. His reasons could be anything, from the sympathetic (homeless and staying warm) to the nefarious (stalking an employee) or anything in between, but let’s not pretend he’s just confused by the unlocked door and thinks he has every right to be there.
keyboards all the way* January 14, 2025 at 3:54 pm but the fact that according to LW he’s repeatedly mumbled an answer and then refused to repeat himself because he “already answered,” and at least once directly lied, means he knows he’s doing something he shouldn’t. EXACTLY. All of this, right here. Security needs to be notified and then boot him out already, before this winds up on the 6 PM news. If brains were dynamite, half the commenters here wouldn’t be able to blow their noses sometimes.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:32 am I think an inherent problem here is that it is very easy to access this space once you know it’s there. Even if it’s hypothetically only for group X, there is no locked or guarded entryway that only group X is able to get through.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 8:47 am Possibly he got in on the weekend because he has a key fob. But most likely through the door behind someone else. (Or as someone upthread had experienced, he’s living there.) That is, I think this is largely a building management issue. But also with how it’s a quasi private quasi public place, shared use determined by everyone being reasonable, and it only takes one unreasonable person to throw that off.
Yorick* January 13, 2025 at 9:52 am He doesn’t have a fob, unless he stole one. If he were supposed to be there, he wouldn’t lie about why he’s there and someone would know who he was.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 10:20 am I absolutely agree that this is the most likely explanation. But it would not be the first time a human managed, through persistence, to work themselves into a difficult situation for reasons that to outsiders are mystifying, yet in their head made sense at the time.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 1:51 pm I don’t think there’s any indication he might’ve stolen a fob. I agree he shouldn’t be there and that campus security should be looking him up, but the café is accessible during the day.
Caro* January 13, 2025 at 8:44 am he is unwilling to engage with even basic courtesy and when asked to not blare videos in public places, does what the eff he likes. This is not someone to whom I would give any benefit of any doubt. Either prove you work here or leave with Fred our security guy.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:03 pm It doesn’t matter why he’s always around. He doesn’t belong there. He needs to leave.
BatManDan* January 13, 2025 at 6:47 am If the building is owned by other-than-the-university, as indicated, they are still leasing the space and have authority over who is in it, and who is not. Campus security would patrol / maintain safety in any leased spaces, as well as land/buildings owned by the university. Engaging the building owner / management is just one more way that this entire department is fobbing off their responsibilities to keep the building safe, secure, and free of distractions. He’s found a safe place – y’all have done nothing at all, except show this man that he doesn’t have to leave or justify his presence.
Annony* January 13, 2025 at 9:32 am Notifying campus security is an entirely reasonable thing to do, especially after 5 or on the weekend. Asking the building managers to “do there job” but not contact security or police is ridiculous. “Do your job but don’t use the tools needed.”
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 10:13 am It doesn’t matter that the university doesn’t own the building, they are leasing the building and so security has authority. That’s how it is at the university I work for. Their is a building on the edge of campus that is actually owned by the city my university and the community college down the street use the building for classes and the health center and some other student things are there. It’s set up very much like what the OP’s is like. If there was a problem with someone who didn’t belong being their university police would have the authority to kick them out. Also, building management might not be the right people for this. Usually building management won’t/cant handle disruptive people or intruders. They are more like facilities/ property management where they can fix something or let you in to your office if you locked yourself out.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 10:52 am Confirm with them that they won’t engage real or campus police, but do get them to do their jobs in their building No, they should not confirm anything of the sort. They should push building management to do their jobs in the building, but ultimately, building management is going to have to go as far as necessary.
musical chairs* January 13, 2025 at 7:27 pm You know, don’t have to scold me every time I suggest someone engage in minor hesitation/careful application in sending in police on people of color, even if legally warranted. You don’t know this about yourself, but this issue is a huge blind spot for you and, unfortunately for me, not the first time we’ve had a conversation like this on this site. You’re a much more frequent commenter than I am, but I always use the same user name if/when I do have something to add. If at all possible, please refrain from responding to my comments, especially so brashly. You don’t have to edit my feedback or my perspective to fit your worldview. It’s very exhausting/honestly a little triggering to have to contend with your hair-trigger racist apologia. I understand this is not the most reasonable ask (do whatever you want, I can’t control your actions) but if you can take a second to notice if it’s me commenting, please refrain from replying. Thanks!
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 9:36 pm You know, don’t have to scold me every time I suggest someone engage in minor hesitation/careful application in sending in police on people of color I’m not scolding you. I *am* emphatically disagreeing with you. And what you are suggesting is not merely some caution and thought before sending in the police – something that I have actually explicitly agreed with in a couple of places. Rather you are suggesting the LW take police presence off the table altogether. And that’s a very different, and significantly more radical move, which I disagree with.
musical chairs* January 14, 2025 at 7:11 am You have explicitly done the opposite and have harassed me and others on this site before on this issue. Again, I don’t expect you to care or do anything about it (I’ve been alive long enough to know that people like you typically don’t change your mind), but don’t rewrite history. This is maybe the second or maybe the third time I’ve had to explicitly ask you to leave me alone. The letter writer was the one who raised the issue about potential for profiling or the appearance of it. It matters to them that they both don’t do it and don’t create a situation that looks like it. Because there’s little reason to consider immediate threat of violence from the person in question, there are tempered options and reasonable interventions that can get them a result closer to what they’re looking for. I am simply stating that they have a strong case with building management (who likely have some sort of internal security measures/protocol by evidence of fobbed entry) and as tenants, can make the ask for a security response that mitigates risk of unfortunate escalation, or at worst, potential for incarceration or police violence. Practically, this could look like the sentence “We need your help, but I don’t want to get the police involved, if we can avoid it.” Scalpel rather than a chainsaw. None of this stuff is “radical”. You just simply understand police as a largely a force for good and are not willing to understand that other folks may not. I am not especially concerned with changing your mind. I am totally open to having nuanced conversations about this topic, but *you specifically* are someone who is very aggressive and bull-headed about it and I’m asking *you specifically* to give me a some space. I understand that that is something I cannot enforce in any way, and you likely will not do, but I figured I would still make the ask.
Decidedly Me* January 13, 2025 at 1:20 am LW5 – I’m new to a company and have several previous reports and other coworkers hoping to change over to work with me again. New company is aware of this and actively seeks these recommendations from me (for my roles and others). I think the recommendation will have more weight than you’re thinking.
Trick or Treatment* January 13, 2025 at 2:22 am Exactly! A lot of companies love it when applicants are a known quantity to a manager/coworker. Also, to avoid sounding like the former manager is your only draw, you can rather say something like “She sounded very positive about the company and department, and I trust her judgement”, then you could add you would like to work for her again.
Beth** January 13, 2025 at 4:28 am As a hiring manager, I would be looking for something more specific e.g. “Xena told me that you work on x and that is a great match for my skils because…” If the OP doesn’t have specific examples, they should speak to Xena and find out what attracted her to the job/employer. When I am interviewing, I want a sense that the applicant has researched the role, understands what it entails and is interested in the work. Bonus points if they can show relevant transferable skills. (When I am recruiting, it’s almost unheard of for the applicant to have experience of this type of role because of the circumstances of our work.)
Malarkey01* January 13, 2025 at 7:17 am In my experience as both the following and followee (and I’m sure it varies by industry), the first step was to directly tell the supervisor that you are very much interested in going with them and what’s the next step. In my experience the supervisor then makes that happen without interviews or maybe with a more directed meet and greet interview as a final step. I once had someone not give me a heads up and go through the regular process with just a recommendation and it caused a little more of a hassle (and also wasted other applicant time). So my advise is being very direct with former supervisor to determine next steps.
feather* January 13, 2025 at 10:17 am I don’t know if it will make the interview process nonexistent/a formality, but I do agree that the way to go is to talk to the supervisor. They can talk to their HR and find out how recommendations work there. I know at my company, you can actually get small bonus for recommending someone who then gets hired. Definitely talk to them first.
Plate of Wings* January 13, 2025 at 2:58 pm Well said. As a follower I skipped the HR phone screen and submitted resume and cover letter by email. But everything else with interviews and hiring panels was the same.
TheSidekick* January 13, 2025 at 7:38 pm Letter-Writer here. Thanks for all the thoughtful advice. To clarify, “Xena” directly encouraged me to apply.
learnedthehardway* January 13, 2025 at 10:38 am I would ask the former manager what the best way to apply would be. If Former Manager hinted that the OP should apply, they will know whether the best option would be for her to apply via the job posting, listing Former Manager as the person who referred her, or if the OP should hand her resume to Former Manager, etc. It’s also a good idea to consult Former Manager about this, in case Former Manager has a “non-solicitation” clause that prevents them from being a referral source (officially). They may not be able to have you list them as the person who referred them, but that doesn’t stop them from giving the recruitment team a heads up to prioritize applicants from their prior company.
handfulofbees* January 13, 2025 at 1:23 am 2: I’ve definitely done this in conversation (regarding the state park in California). Had a bit of trouble pronouncing ‘año’ at first, but once I realized what I was saying, I learned. Very quickly lol.
Seeking Second Childhood* January 13, 2025 at 8:08 am For readers who do not know any Spanish but do know English: ñ is pronounced much like “ni” in “onion” or the “gn” in “lasagna”.
AL* January 13, 2025 at 1:35 am #4 – I also have some really odd dietary restrictions. People can absolutely get weird about them – I don’t have the same low-fat issue, but I don’t eat any form of pizza, and people have Feelings about that. I’ve found that focusing on the specific rather than the general lessens some of the weirdness around it. I’ve gotten comfortable with channeling my inner Sally Albright when out for meals with colleagues. I’ll typically warn the table that I have some weird restrictions (without getting into what they are) and just dive into asking the waiter – politely, of course – for exactly the alterations I need. For me, that looks like saying, “Is this chicken able to be grilled instead of fried? Wonderful. Can you please leave off the cheese and the kale slaw? Thank you.” I typically have a back-up order as well if the original dish can’t be altered to my needs. For catering is being ordered for a work dinner, I typically have a conversation with the person doing the ordering to see if I can have a look at the menu. If necessary, I ask to have a separate meal ordered for me. The longer I work with specific people (my work includes catered lunch every day), the more used to my odd diet they get, and it becomes less of a “thing.”
Annie* January 13, 2025 at 1:47 am #4 Some more phrases to try on to help restaurants meet your dietary needs: “I’m dairy free when eating out”, “I eat vegan during the day” I’m basing this on the majority of the problematic ingredients in your letter coming from milk. While these statements might not sound completely honest, you wouldn’t be the first or the last person in the world to have to follow a more restrictive version of your medically prescribed diet when eating out.
Jill Swinburne* January 13, 2025 at 1:56 am Except then you suddenly find your meal full of coconut oil or cashew cream. I’d actually lean into the medical explanation – people are more likely to take it seriously.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:30 am Yes, just make it a one sentence “I have trouble digesting fat and so need to avoid anything with too much oil or dairy.”
Massive Dynamic* January 13, 2025 at 11:15 am Can confirm – vegan entrees in restaurants usually get loaded up with all sorts of vegan fat to make it taste good.
Kay* January 13, 2025 at 1:24 pm Yup – I love vegetables and it is incredibly disappointing to be excited for a vegetarian/vegan restaurant only to find everything on the menu is deep fried and/or slathered in a spicy mystery sauce. This happens far too often.
Roeslein* January 13, 2025 at 1:57 am Thanks! As another poster suggested, this is a pancreatitis issue, nothing to do with lactose intolerance. I drink tons of almost fat-free milk with zero issue. The worst offender for me besides cream is actually mayo! I also have no issue with meat especially if baked / cooked with no additional fat, and while I mostly eat vegetarian diet with meat maybe once a week I don’t think anyone would believe me if I suddenly claimed to be vegan.
Cmdrshprd* January 13, 2025 at 10:45 am “I mostly eat vegetarian diet with meat maybe once a week I don’t think anyone would believe me if I suddenly claimed to be vegan.” You know your coworkers better, but I don’t think you need to claim to suddenly BE vegan, but you can say I have dietary restrictions and most often vegan is the best/easiest option, but make sure there is no “olive oil” or “oil” on the veggie salad/wrap, etc. I recently place a food order and that needed vegetarian options and dairy free options, the easiest way to solve it was to make sure there was a vegan option, that hit both needs at once. In my case it was a vegan breaded/fried beyond patty. It would not meat your needs likely due to the pan fried. But letting me know vegan without oil, would give me the info to look for a vegan/veggie wrap with oil/sauce on the side.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 1:06 pm I hope you get it resolved and/or that you figure out a good way of phrasing it! As for saying you’re vegan, it’s so common these days to reduce consumption of animal products that I don’t think anyone would raise an eyebrow if you just said you’re trying it out.
Agent Diane* January 13, 2025 at 3:18 am There’s no need to say “when eating out”. Id say the “medical reasons” is more important as it shows this is a requirement not a preference.
Edwina* January 13, 2025 at 9:14 am I think you’re right. When the commenter suggested the “when eating out” verbiage, it made perfect sense to me because it’s hard to know exactly what the ingredients are when you don’t control the cooking. I eat Pad Thai all the time, but when we ordered it on Christmas Eve, I got sick from it. New (to me) restaurant, and there was something in there that my stomach couldn’t handle. But if you don’t have those issues, having a different diet for eating out probably sounds odd.
CityMouse* January 13, 2025 at 5:31 am FWIW, if you said “I need to limit fat and oil intake due to a medical condition”, I’d probably assume you have something like a gallbladder issue, because that runs in my family. I feel like that’s common enough most people should understand that.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 2:25 pm Since my wife actually has gall bladder issues that requires low fat eating, that’s where my mind went as well. Just saying that you can’t properly digest fats due to a medical issue should shut the “diet” idiots up.
tabloidtainted* January 13, 2025 at 1:56 am #1: If it’s a security risk to have a stranger popping up in the building, stop tiptoeing around the issue!
cindylouwho* January 15, 2025 at 10:30 am Yeah, as a graduate student who comes in on weekends to a mostly empty area to work, I would feel wary of a stranger who can’t identify themselves being there…
Chocolate Teapot* January 13, 2025 at 2:06 am 5. I would be focussing on why the new position would be a good role for me, apart from working with Xena again. There have been letters over the years on here about starting a new job and the (often a main positive for accepting) boss has departed shortly after starting. There have been a mix of circumstances and outcomes, so it is worth thinking about what to do if the working relationship is curtailed.
Emily* January 13, 2025 at 2:14 am I’d let the Spanish correction go. I’m sure the recipient knew what she meant. Unless she’s a staff translator there’s really no reason to bring it up and embarrass her.
Spreadsheet Queen* January 13, 2025 at 1:05 pm Yep. And just because people know the rules/spelling doesn’t mean they have any idea how to put the ~ over the n on their computer keyboards. Most people have not looked up the keyboard shortcut for that unless they frequently type Spanish words. Don’t ask me how to do the umlaut for German either.
nnn* January 13, 2025 at 2:16 am Adding to the brainstorming for #4: “I have a medical condition that severely limits the amount of fat my body can digest. I know, it’s super hard to get from that information to deciding what to order at a work meal! Historically, I’ve found ordering the vegan option is safest, but if I could [see nutritional information/talk to the chef/whatever it is you actually need] that would be ideal” Advantages: that states what you actually need and makes it clear why (it’s not for weight loss, it’s not for food allergies) Disadvantages: wordy, an above-average amount of personal information This is almost certainly not the single best right answer, but I’m posting it in case it helps you arrive at the actual right answer
Short as possible* January 13, 2025 at 5:49 am ““I have a medical condition that severely limits the amount of fat my body can digest.” I like this a lot. Maybe add: “It’s a problem no matter the type of fat. So can I have food options that are preferredly cooked or steamed (or whatever is suitable)?” I would steer away from the wordy explanations as they risk that the other person will zone out/forget half of the information – and get it wrong.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:27 am I like the first sentence for the simple one sentence explanation of the issue. That’s the right foot to launch off of.
Bananapants* January 13, 2025 at 10:08 am Yes I think this is great! Plus suggestions of what would work: “can x food be steamed/grilled, can sauces be on the side” etc.
HiddenT* January 13, 2025 at 2:23 am As someone who works with multiple Spanish speakers, they probably wouldn’t even notice it/would assume it was a typo. Many times non-native speakers are way more sensitive about the “correct” language than native speakers, because they took classes/used a program to learn the language, as opposed to a native speakers mostly learning by osmosis. I’d just let it go, since this was a casual remark and not on any official paperwork or marketing material.
umami* January 13, 2025 at 10:32 am Yes, this! My spouse is a native speaker, and when I was taking Spanish classes I asked him to quiz me. I was surprised that he wasn’t aware of the actual spelling of many words because he had never seen them in print. I was way better with Spanish grammar than him because he didn’t actually study it.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 12:15 pm I’m a native English speaker who’s been doing some English as a Second Language tutoring. There are *so many* English grammar/pronunciation rules I’ve followed my whole life but didn’t know existed until I read them in the textbook! For example, we usually add “ed” to the end of a verb to indicate the past tense, but depending on the sound before it we pronounce that “ed” in *three different ways*. My student: “Yeah, I know that rule.” Me: *mind blown*
HiddenT* January 13, 2025 at 12:50 pm It’s the same for most languages. I have a degree in another language (not Spanish) and have spoken with native speakers who have no idea *why* their grammar does the thing, but just know when it’s wrong. They also take classes on their language the same way we take English classes, but aside from people who write for a living/teach ESL/teach English grammar, who remembers everything they learned in English in school?
umami* January 13, 2025 at 1:19 pm Yeah, I think it’s been so internalized that it’s automatic, they don’t even realize they are applying a rule or what the exceptions are, which is why not just anyone can teach a language!
Six for the truth over solace in lies* January 13, 2025 at 8:17 pm It’s like the adjective order rule. Native speakers know the rule very well in the sense that they deploy it consistently and correctly (an adult native speaker would say “a small cute white Persian kitten” but not “a Persian white cute small kitten” unless they were being weird on purpose), they just can’t articulate it because they learned it on a subconscious level before they learned to write, let alone had a grammar class. A non-native speaker knows it in the sense that they can articulate it, but may deploy it incorrectly if they get mixed up or forget, as I mix up e.g. French tenses because I get mixed up or forget. With a few exceptions, grammar describes something a linguistic group already does when speaking, and that means that the group being described doesn’t have to ever learn it by rote—like I never heard the adjective rule until I was thirty and yet used it correctly every day of ny life.
Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* January 13, 2025 at 2:26 am #1 I would not tolerate this. However, I’ve always worked in R&D where security is a high priority, so I’m probably more hardline on this issue than most pp. Also workplace safety meant even anyone hanging around the edges of the closed site would soon be be questioned by security. If security / building management are not readily available, then I suggest going as a group with your phones and saying ” You are not authorised to be here. Please leave” Don’t engage in any explanations. If he refuses/doesn’t leave, everyone takes photos of him. Tell him you will be giving these photos to building security and the campus police – and do so. Do this every time
Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* January 13, 2025 at 2:45 am Also of course tell building management that they need to take this seriously and ask what they are going to do. Security is generally part of their duties in return for the fees, so don’t allow them to brush you off
Seal* January 13, 2025 at 2:30 am #1: Long-time academic librarian here. This situation is unfortunately common at research universities and definitely needs to be addressed. It sounds like there are two separate issues here: playing videos without using headphones in a public space, and unauthorized entry when the building isn’t open to the public. The latter is trespassing and in some ways easier to address since there really isn’t a gray area. Even if the university doesn’t own the building, it houses university people and property; I’d be very surprised if it isn’t under the purview of campus police/security. Everyone who does have access to the building should be reminded to not let authorized people in and that everyone should be prepared to prove their affiliation after hours. The no headphones issue can be a bit trickier, especially if there aren’t a lot of people around. It helps to have a sign in the area to point to (trust me, people don’t actually read them) when asking someone to not do something, because then it’s not just one person’s concern. Another tactic is to check back in a few minutes or have a colleague do so. It’s easy to ignore one person or a single reminder, less so if the message is repeated. But if none of that works, you may need to escalate the situation. If nothing else, talk to other people in the building and compare notes. Chances are plenty of people are aware of the situation but don’t know how to address it.
Seal* January 13, 2025 at 3:06 am One more point on this. The university’s lease should specify who’s responsible for building security and maintenance and what exactly that entails. If the building managers are indeed responsible for safety and security, there should be some mechanism in place to hold them accountable. Again, issues related to unaffiliated people are all too common to universities; from a liability standpoint alone safety and security would be spelled in the lease.
Horton* January 13, 2025 at 7:51 am To add on – Who is issuing the fobs? Someone is issuing fobs, which is security. That team/person/dept is who you should contact. Someone cares about security, so they issue fobs. Let them know people are accessing the building when it’s locked, without a fob.
Rosey* January 13, 2025 at 7:59 am I suggested below that he might be coming in with someone else who works in the building. Their boyfriend or son maybe. Maybe he’s their ride or something. Or has special needs and can’t be left alone at home (suggesting special needs because of his odd behaviour).
Dust Bunny* January 13, 2025 at 8:29 am However, none of that is the university’s or building owner’s responsibility. And it doesn’t excuse the noise problem. That something is deserving of sympathy doesn’t mean that whoever is immediately present is obligated to address it/solve it.
HiddenT* January 13, 2025 at 2:31 am Re: #1 I wonder if the young man in question is homeless. Maybe trying to help him find some resources would be helpful. Maybe someone from the university counseling center might be able to swing by at a time he’s usually hanging around. Unfortunately a fair number of minority/low income university students end up being homeless for various reasons. That isn’t LW1’s problem to solve, of course, but if they could pass the word to someone who could, maybe that would get their ersatz tenant dealt with faster.
Caro* January 13, 2025 at 8:46 am he may well be, but then he’d do well to not flatly ignore reasonable requests to turn his videos down, yes?
I'm just here for the cats!!* January 13, 2025 at 10:22 am If the university is like mine, the counseling center would not be able to assist, legally. We have limited resources that we cannot use for non students. Although I feel really bad for this person if they are homeless (sounds like they are) there are plenty of other spaces, even on campus (like the library or student union) where they can go or elsewhere in the community (public library). It does not sound like he is willing to talk with people, and he is not looking for resources. Having someone from the counseling center come and talk to him is just taking resources away from students.
Ivkra* January 13, 2025 at 11:08 am As others said, he may be homeless, but I’d point out that he may well work for either building management or custodial services, and use the space as a place to chill when he’s waiting for a new shift to start or for transport from a shift he just finished – and that might also explain the caginess around explanations, if he’s worried that he’ll get told off for using a privilege of the academics that’s often not extended to other staff. (I remember working in a building where one of the professors was living out of his office, and most everyone knew, and he was creepy as hell, but because he was a professor, nobody did anything for about two years.) Either way? tl;dr, If he isn’t doing anything sketchy or creepy, I strongly recommend you leave him be. Longer explanation below. If he is homeless… as someone who’s worked in and around university spaces for years, and I have a cautionary tale for LW 1. For two years, there was a homeless man in my building who was unassuming and mostly read paperback novels in the public spaces; he kept to himself, but was friendly if you struck up a conversation with him. Eventually, someone noticed he was sleeping in the basement stairwells sometimes and told campus security to get rid of him; I never saw him again. Not two months later, a much younger homeless guy showed up. Beer cans collected in the stairwells where he hung out on weekends and evenings, and he followed multiple younger women back to their offices, where they had to lock the doors and turn the lights off and wait quietly while he tried every locked door and eventually wandered off. It took weeks to get rid of him because security was spread thinner on the weekends (and because, unlike the guy he apparently replaced, he didn’t respond to the warnings by politely leaving). But after they finally got rid of the drunken creeper, which was a really, really upsetting handful of weeks for the younger women in our grad wing, who no longer felt safe going to their offices alone outside of building hours… we had sporadic burglaries, who found their way into multiple unlocked offices and made off with various pawnables. It occurred to me on several bitter, frustrated occasions that none of this had been an issue when there was a friendly, chill older dude who just wanted a dry place to read his paperbacks. So I would strongly, strongly recommend just talking to him and/or posting signs asking people to not listen to videos in public spaces. If it’s just the videos, the other thing is, he may not have a pair of headphones – maybe just give/loan him a pair, or leave a cheap pair by the sign and direct him to them.
Magpie* January 13, 2025 at 12:27 pm I don’t understand how allowing the original homeless guy to stay would have prevented anything that happened after he was asked to leave. If anything, all of that might have been avoided if security had taken a harder line with non-residents sleeping in the stairwells from the get go. Maybe their defenses were down because of the guy that wasn’t causing any trouble so they were slower to react when there was an actual problem.
Ivkra* January 13, 2025 at 1:37 pm I really doubt that taking a harder line would have been either possible without causing severe problems for everyone who used the building, or would have helped. Again, this was a university building – from about 8am to 8pm, people were in and out of it: undergrads, deliveries, professors, grads, admins, custodians, partners of any of the above dropping by for lunch, people dropping by for business or personal visits, etc. After hours and on weekends, anyone with an office in the building might also be coming by, so there were often quite a few people there fairly late in the evening – but in their offices, not so much the common areas – or on weekends. Security was campus-wide; I don’t think it’s accurate to say their defenses were down, since they did exactly the same thing for both people who I mentioned were visibly present – tell them to leave, see that they did in the moment, then move on. I do think my building, being older and with far, far less fancy tech equipment in it than others, was never high on their list of priorities. Primarily, my belief that the older guy who wasn’t harassing anyone or leaving garbage around or stealing also acted as a preventative for these other, more obnoxious trespassers was these two data points: A) for two years, despite plenty of homeless people living in the area, he was the only one noticeable in the building, and then very soon after he left, other people showed up and caused problems; and B) I saw the same thing happen in my neighborhood, about two miles away: there were people who camped on the edge of the small park I lived next door to, whose primary offenses were “unsightly vehicles parked overnight” but who didn’t litter in the park, nor do drugs in it, nor vandalize it or cause noise problems. They were quiet for the most part, but friendly if you chatted with them. But the unsightly vehicles caused property owners to worry about their real estate values, so they formed an association, hounded the city to implement an overnight parking ban in the area, and then relentlessly informed the police every time they saw their homeless neighbors’ ~unsightly~ vehicles parked overnight, causing most to leave or eventually get towed. Less than six months later, there were people sleeping overnight in the park itself, which became increasingly harder to keep clean; there were drug users on the quieter sides, some of whom left paraphernalia around; there were bike thieves selling parts out of the park; there were people who would stay up drinking and loudly partying in the park late at night. I realize I’m a little outside the norm on this issue from a lot of folks, but I really do think 99% of the time when a homeless person isn’t causing serious problems, the “solution” to them existing in a semi-public place is to treat them like any other person existing in that space: be civil and polite, and address any problems that do arrive the same way you would with anyone else. For example, calling the police because someone is screaming violent threats at passersby is probably the right course of action regardless of whether they’re homeless or a CEO. I also think this is ESPECIALLY applicable to LW1, since they work in an academic setting, where “homeless” as a category can easily overlap with “student” or even, as I mentioned, “professor.” The fact that the person hasn’t shared with LW or anybody they’ve asked exactly what their status is doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t have one. They could, for example, be a student who works or studies in another building.
Koala* January 13, 2025 at 3:50 pm Unsheltered people are, for lack of a better word, territorial. I once had a client who was unshelted and had a hernia and I not only was able to get a donated surgery for him but also short term housing in a group home while he recovered from surgery, and he declined to have the procedure done because he did not want to lose his area (a church let him sleep on their porch and the nearby corner was very lucrative for panhandling). The spaces where they sleep are considered their homes and respected as such by their fellows, but when a good space becomes vacant, someone else will move right in.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:42 pm Sorry, I’m probably just being dense but how would allowing the first harmless man have stopped the other incidents from occurring?
Starbuck* January 13, 2025 at 1:56 pm They didn’t articulate it; I think we’re meant to assume he was like, somehow holding that building as his territory and once he was gone, other people somehow knew and came to claim that territory? Or the drunk guy or burglars were frightened off by his presence before? For an entire building I don’t think that makes much sense but maybe they had something else in mind.
Koala* January 13, 2025 at 3:52 pm I elaborated more above, but unsheltered people tend to be quite respectful of other unsheltered people’s spaces.
judyjudyjudy* January 13, 2025 at 1:49 pm They’ve already talked to him about the volume, to no avail. A sign is even more passive and I doubt will work on someone who has already ignored direct requests.
allathian* January 13, 2025 at 2:32 am Given that the origin of Spanish is largely in vulgar Latin (the language the people spoke rather than wrote), it should come as no surprise that a similar error is possible in Latin. Apparently, one famously expensive public (i.e. private in the US) school was forced to raise its annual tuition fees by £500 per annum. On the letter, however, an n was omitted by mistake: per anum. One irate parent apparently responded and wrote “Thank you for the notification, but for my part, I would prefer to continue paying through the nose, as usual.”
Sharpie* January 13, 2025 at 3:14 am That’s a three-way mistake… annus = year ānus (long a) = anus, butthole anus (short a) = old woman (Easier to spot when the vowels are macronised, and it’s a shame that not everyone uses macrons when writing Latin. The Romans used accent marks themselves, more like those used in modern Spanish – Luke Raneiri of the YouTube channel Polymathy has a whole video about it. Just look up ‘Did the Romans used macrons’ on YouTube to find it )
Heffalump* January 14, 2025 at 11:22 am In 1992 Queen Elizabeth said the royal family had had an annus horribilis (horrible year). Shortly afterward a British comedian said he’d had an anus horribilis and was using Preparation H.
Heffalump* January 14, 2025 at 11:32 am “Kate” (item 2) would probably have a hissy fit about this. https://www.askamanager.org/2022/10/everyone-at-my-company-golfs-employee-is-freezing-out-a-manager-after-he-joked-about-king-charles-and-more.html
Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* January 13, 2025 at 2:43 am #2 “happy new anus” :) That would kick my new year off to a very happy start, whether I were the recipient or the giver of this greeting. YMMV but I’d have loved to be told
Name* January 13, 2025 at 2:55 am LW 2 – a former coworker was fluent in Spanish, her fiancé was not but was learning. At a restaurant, he tried asking for a to go box (“para” caja”). Instead, he said “para cojo”, which translates to “cripple to go”. My coworker said the server looked at her with a “what in the world…l look. She cleared it up and everyone started laughing.
The Other Evil HR Lady* January 13, 2025 at 7:48 am I hate to “acshually…” but here it goes: – para caja = for a box – para cojo = for a person with a wonky leg (not necessarily crippled) – caja para llevar = to go box – caja para cojo = box for a person with a wonky leg Spanish is not as malleable as English :-)
Spanish Prof* January 13, 2025 at 8:38 am I bet the original mistake was “cojo para llevar” and “Name” scrambled it a bit in the retelling. One of the funniest “mistakes” I ever heard was a student asking – in all sincerity – “if breakfast is desayuno, then is lunch desaydos and dinner desaytres?”
Nerdgal* January 13, 2025 at 8:47 am My brother once very confidently ordered fried grapes (uvas fritas) instead of fried eggs (huevos fritos) for breakfast at a restaurant in Puerto Rico. The waiter politely asked him to clarify.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 12:26 pm Thanks to the Norman Conquest, English has a lot of French cognates (words that are the same in both languages). This is extremely useful, right up until you run into a false cognate. Many an American student in France has bewildered a waiter when trying to ask for preserves (“preservatifs”) for their toast and instead requesting condoms.
MigraineMonth* January 13, 2025 at 5:53 pm Yup, the American host families are NOT generally prepared for their exchange students to announce they’re gonna go douche now. Though that’s not a false cognate so much as English mugging other languages for their vocabulary and then pretending it means something different. ‘Cause French is fancy, so we’ll use the fancy French word for shower for the vagina cleanse that generally just screws up the pH balance and makes infections more likely.
Agent Diane* January 13, 2025 at 3:07 am OP4 ~ I’m glad you have a diagnosis. I had to keep the amount of fat I ate to below 3% for a long time for medical reasons, and I travelled a lot for work. I’m vegetarian but found most veggie food was cheese-based, so I became vegan. For catered lunches, I would let the organiser know I’d bring my own food for medical reasons (thanks, in fact, to AAM giving me the confidence for that). Evening meals with the expectation of socialising were much harder, and were when I’d say I was vegan. I never encountered a problem with that, though there was the odd meal where I’d end up having a couple of side dishes instead. Again “I’ve a medical condition” said in an upbeat way and a swivel to something else was key.
Rosa mexicana* January 13, 2025 at 3:25 am to go box (“para” caja”) “para cojo”, which translates to “cripple to go” Neither of these translations is right
Agent Diane* January 13, 2025 at 3:27 am OP4. I had to eat a diet with less than 3% fat for a while for medical reasons (now cleared up). I was travelling a lot for work. Here’s what helped for me. I was (and am) vegetarian so I became vegan outside the house. For catered lunches I’d bring my own, and warn the organiser in advance with “it’s a medical thing”. For evening meals, with socialising, I’d specify I was vegan in advance so the organiser would find a place that catered for that. I did have the odd meal that was two side dishes put together though. The main thing was an upbeat and breezy “oh, it’s a medical thing” and a change of subject. Thanks to AAM, I already knew that was what to say.
PJ* January 13, 2025 at 4:00 am For letter 1: I work in a university too and my dept has had similar issues with a guest teacher from a different department. I’m also a black woman, just for added context. This guy wasn’t quite as disruptive as your intruder but would raid our food on a regular basis. We discussed it in our team and agreed to challenge him whenever we saw him in our kitchen. Some of my colleagues were uncomfortable with this because he was a tall imposing guy who was repeatedly ignoring clear boundaries and so I did it myself a few extra times. I also wasn’t comfortable confronting him as a 5ft5 woman but that’s life I guess. My advice is to be matter of fact about it when approaching him. Say that the space is only for staff/students of x dept and ask for his name. If he mumbles something ask for his uni ID card. If he can’t produce it, ask him to write his name for you so you can check it on your system. If he refuses, ask him to leave. He may argue that you’ve let him stay before so you might just have to say that the dept has had issues and is now enforcing this policy. If others are accessing the space without authorisation you will also need to do the same with them so that lack of bias is clear. Call security directly instead of contacting the buildings staff if necessary. Hopefully you won’t need to unless he becomes difficult. You might want to discuss it with a security manager as an ongoing concern so they are aware in case you need to contact them. I’m in the UK so there’s less chance of escalation in violent terms on either side but hopefully your security people know how to do their jobs without escalating unduly. If you don’t already have a sign on the door saying that this space is only for dept of x staff, put one up, if only so you can point to it when necessary, and so it’s clear that it’s the general policy and not a personal thing against him. For our situation, I did some online investigating, worked out who he was and contacted his dept. I explained that it was making us uncomfortable to have someone who wasn’t part of our dept hanging around and taking food intended for or belonging to our staff and students. I expressed concern about his circumstances and asked if his dept could signpost him to sources of support etc. So if this person is from another department you could discuss it with them to try and get support (as they might know more about his personal situation). It took a while to reduce the visits and we had to ask his dept to talk with him a couple more times. The other department also had separate issues with homeless people sleeping in their social spaces, so in the end the main door to the building is now fob access only. All the best with your situation.
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 7:51 am This is excellent advice, especially the ways to make lack of bias clear. I agree with you about investigating and getting to the bottom of these situations. Extra curiosity here could resolve the situation better than people looking the other way.
Colette* January 13, 2025 at 9:29 am Yeah, I think that believing you have the authority is more imposing than how you physically look. And use wording that shows you are in charge – “Can I see your ID, please?”, “This is a secure space, you need to leave”, “You cannot play videos with sound or you will have to leave”.
Firefinch* January 13, 2025 at 4:02 am Things I have done in a foreign language: Accidentally told my entire village I was having sex with my dog (I meant to say, “Look we’re dancing! when he jumped up and I held his paws. Did not say that.) Accidentally said my colleague had a big red clitoris. (Book and clitoris are one letter apart.) Fortunately this was in language class. Said “let’s fuck malnutrition!” for three days in a business workshop. (In French, “lower” is “baissez” with a soft s, and “fuck” is “baisez” with a hard s.) Colleagues were polite and laughed amongst themselves. When a market lady asked what we were doing, I said “oh we’re having sex” when I meant to say “just walking around.” The difference was a skipped “la” syllable in the middle of a word. I could probably think of more given more time. But if you’re going to be fluent in a language, you have to be willing to make mistakes. In all of these cases hilarity ensued.
HiddenT* January 13, 2025 at 12:24 pm That reminds me of the language class where I tried to write on a test, in a paragraph about my daily life, “I feed my cats every morning”. I actually wrote “I devour my cats every morning”. Similar verbs for “to eat” but with very different connotations in that context!
Thomas* January 13, 2025 at 4:07 am #1 made me think of “hostile reconnaissance” – terrorists and crooks scoping out the place. Especially with the person lying about working there. At my workplace everyone had to do See Check and Notify (SCaN) training regarding this – it’s available on a UK government website. I remember it suggests making the initial interaction in a friendly customer service kind of way. “Can I help you?” not “Why were you trying to open that door!” kind of thing. The situation with this person has gone beyond the initial interaction stage – he’s persistently *in* a closed area. But maybe raising the possibility of this kind of threat would poke security to take things more seriously?
KateM* January 13, 2025 at 4:27 am I’m thinking one way or another he must be pretty stupid to insist on being noisy when he has been repretedly told not to. You’d think someone who has no business being there would try to not attract attention!
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:38 am Plot twist: The video he’s watching loudly is the “Don’t be suspicious” song from Parks and Rec, because he’s very bad at being sneaky and is trying to learn to do it better.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:18 am That’s why I think “Person who lacks social skills and the ability to read a room” is the most likely explanation. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s something like last week’s professor emeritus, where someone who once had a reason to be in the space (and decided it was a good spot to wile away the time when they are in the area, even though they no longer work there) has realized that this part is accessible without a fob, and though people have started to notice the questioners have been fended off to date via mumbling.
Not That Kind of Doctor* January 13, 2025 at 8:54 am My guess is that the individual has already been discouraged away from the more traditionally public areas of the university for being noisy and landed in this building because of the authority vacuum described.
Antilles* January 13, 2025 at 9:46 am That’s incredibly unlikely because he wouldn’t be this blatant about it. He wouldn’t be sitting in the cafe for hours, just sitting there and attracting attention. He wouldn’t crank the music to intentionally draw attention to himself. And he’d certainly have a better explanation planned out. This entire method of “reconnaissance” just guarantees that everybody will remember him in detail, which is the exact opposite of what you want. Also, he certainly wouldn’t keep coming back. This is a university research lab that apparently is so lax on security that random people can walk in on weekends; this doesn’t require months of reconnaissance to plan some massive heist. The entire amount of “reconnaissance” you’d need would be coming in once on a weekend for a few minutes to get the layout of the building, what kind of locks are used on the offices, etc. Or even better, you could probably show up mid-week during normal business hours when the building is unlocked and filled with people, then just knock on a few doors as though you’re a normal visitor who’s not sure exactly which office is Dr. Smith’s.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 10:41 am Ah but he’s not REALLY in a closed area. As the LW pointed out, he’s in the DMZ between the public and the private/closed spaces. That makes it harder, and it does sound like nobody has really clearly said, “if you aren’t working here or a grad student here, you must leave.” The letter is unclear if the issue is he’s there or that he’s playing loud videos. If he weren’t playing loud videos, would anyone care? If not, then fix THAT problem. Give him a set of headphones and say, “if you won’t use these, you’ll have to leave because you’re being disruptive.” It’s honestly odd to me how long this has gone on and everybody seems to be so passive about it.
Michigander* January 13, 2025 at 5:11 am I don’t love today’s answer to #1. I agree that it’s good to always question whether something really is a problem or if it’s just unusual but harmless, but I feel like the LW already gave reasons in the letter why it’s an issue (being disruptive by refusing to use headphones, accessing spaces that are off limits without the required authorisation). It doesn’t seem that helpful to answer the question with “But are you sure it’s actually a problem?” when it clearly IS a problem.
Myrin* January 13, 2025 at 5:32 am I thought that at first, too, but I’d say Alison answer is actually less in the direction of “Are you sure it’s actually a problem?” and more “Are you sure it’s actually your problem [to solve]?”, which seems true. Alison doesn’t say “Don’t do anything and just let him hang out forever” but rather “Is it an option to just let your building management know the whole history […] and then leave it in their court to decide what to do?”, directing OP which route to take since this seems like it’s above his paygrade but also simply not in his purview power-, authority- and responsibility-wise. She also says “If he’s being disruptive or refusing direct requests[…] you can call campus security [= immediate reaction to current situation], but otherwise this seems like an issue for the building management rather than any of you [= general course of action]. If you feel they’re not handling it with an appropriate level of urgency, the next step is to be clearer with them about exactly why it needs more urgency [= advice if appropriate authority keeps dragging their feet]”. I fully understand why the answer left you with the specific feeling you articulate – it was the same for me – but after I re-read it a second time, I realised it’s actually a pretty comprehensive guide.
Ask a Manager* Post authorJanuary 13, 2025 at 11:55 am This was exactly my intent, but it clearly wasn’t clear enough, which is on me!
AnotherLibrarian* January 13, 2025 at 12:03 pm Yes, I think this is a case of “is this your problem to solve?”
Alicent* January 13, 2025 at 6:26 am #4: I had this exact situation come up for my wedding and the caterer followed the “no cream, butter or high fat dairy” specifically and the guest was really upset they received something that was cooked with olive oil and no dairy at all. They ended up picking at the special meal we paid extra for and going to the buffet to eat the food we didn’t think she could have. I think being specific about the why can help if you’re comfortable.
bamcheeks* January 13, 2025 at 7:21 am I think the word “cafe” has confused things. To me there is a WORLD of difference between a staff kitchen space, which is usually pretty private even if it’s not behind a secured door, and a cafe, which is a public space. My advice would it wildly different for the former than the latter. It sounds to me more like it’s the former, but I think Alison has answered as if it’s the latter.
deesse877* January 13, 2025 at 8:17 am I agree that this is a more urgent issue, and would underline further that it’s a persistent problem at universities. Further, the reason to report is not to be rigid or punitive, but because someone who has apparently already gone to some lengths to obviate normal security may escalate their behavior.
HonorBox* January 13, 2025 at 8:54 am Agreed. I’m sure there’s a reason he’s there (it is warm, gives him access to wifi, etc.) but just because he can be there doesn’t mean he should. Flip the script a bit and make the person in question a guy working on his novel at a Panera. If he’s a paying customer, but he’s not using headphones and is evasive in answering questions from staff, there are still consequences, up to and including asking him not to return. Maybe he’s not doing something really wrong in this situation, but he’s still in the wrong.
ecnaseener* January 13, 2025 at 9:18 am I don’t read the answer as “is it really a problem?” but as “is it yours to take on?” Which it seems the answer is no — all LW can really do at this point is keep nagging building management and/or campus security, and make the severity of the problem clear if they haven’t already. It’s definitely not LW’s job or place to keep trying to confront this guy when he’s shown he won’t respond — the remaining choices are bump it up to security or drop it.
Pickles* January 13, 2025 at 10:02 am Does she really need to keep nagging though? It seems like she has done what she can. Move on with your life. Stop letting yourself be bothered by this guy.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 10:35 am There are situations where “Stop letting yourself be bothered by this guy” is appropriate advice. A stranger trespassing in your office break room despite repeated requests to leave is not one of them.
Who Plays Backgammon?* January 13, 2025 at 3:50 pm Yes. The person might act benign up to a point–then (given that no one knows who/what this guy is) something bad happens and people ask why something wasn’t done sooner. Letting a situation ride indefinitely, especially out of political correctness, isn’t always the best way to handle it.
ecnaseener* January 13, 2025 at 11:30 am It reads like you intend this as a disagreement with my comment, but you seem to agree with my statement that “the remaining choices are bump it up to security or drop it.” I think both are valid options, depending on details we don’t have.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 10:46 am I’m kinda on this side of the fence too. Bldg Mgmt HAS talked to the guy on at least one occasion and didn’t seem to find his being there an issue. LW doesn’t KNOW the substance of their convo with him, but perhaps he does have a legit reason. The ONLY issue I see is the loud videos, and that’s something that anyone else who is in the room can deal with by asking him wear headphones and/or turn it down. Enough people ask he’ll either acquiesce or if he refuses, THEN it’s time to bring in security or someone with “more” authority.
bamcheeks* January 13, 2025 at 10:19 am I agree with this, and re-reading the letter I am actually not entirely clear whether LW’s question is, “should we Do Something?” or “what is the Something we should Do?” Speaking from a UK university, I will say that there are almost certainly people whose job is to make the call on whether this guy should be in these spaces (ie. are they actually public access, or are they just not locked), and what to do about it if so. But it will probably take a fair amount of persistence to track down who those people are, and get them to act. In my experience, it is reasonably common for academics to work on the assumption that the solution to a problem must be something they can do themselves, and if they can’t do it themselves, it’s simply insoluble. It’s quite easy to get a reputation as a rockstar problem-solver by being the admin person who phones someone up and says, “Who is responsible for this? Thanks, I’ll call her.” “Hi, is this your area? Great, when will you be able to do that? Brill, I’ll follow up later this week. Thanks!” So LW, assuming you do think there is a problem and you want a solution, go back to the building management people and get them to tell you whether this is a building management problem or a campus security problem, and get the name of who is going to pick it up, and then speak to them directly, and follow up with them after a week to check on progress. This is a normal problem for building management or security to handle, but you might well have to chase up a few times to make sure it actually is handled. If you contacted them once and then never followed up, they are probably assuming the problem is no longer live. But it is also fine if you decide this person isn’t doing that much harm and it’s not your job to take this on! You probably have plenty of other stuff to be doing. :)
saskia* January 13, 2025 at 11:11 am The answer does say, “It doesn’t sound like he’s causing problems.” So there’s kind of a mismatch between what OP and what Alison think of the situation, which seems to have impacted the advice given.
Colette* January 13, 2025 at 10:03 am We don’t actually know he’s not authorized to access the space, just that he hasn’t proven he is to the OP.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:16 pm He’s lied to multiple people about his reasons for being there. He is not authorized to use the space.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 10:48 am Apparently the space he’s accessing doesn’t necessarily REQUIRE authorization since all those that do, require fobs and the “cafe” and restrooms do not. LW says they are outside of the authorization required spaces, soooo if it weren’t for the loud videos, would LW or anyone else CARE that he’s there?
C4T!!!* January 14, 2025 at 9:33 am I can see why you’d think that! I think we can agree LW feels like it is a problem, but from what they’ve shared there doesn’t seem to be enough evidence to that it actually is – and thus the follow up question. Adding the fact that being suspicious is neither a misdemeanor nor a felony, and this blog seems to focus on actionable responses LWs have control over, I think it makes sense to double check their assessment of the situation while also referring them back to building mgmt.
Can't spell Who Cares without HR* January 13, 2025 at 6:19 am LW2, I’m happy to tell you that there’s a famous Brazilian footballer whose name is “Elano”. My Spanish-speaking friends do find it really funny :-)
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:17 am Please tell me there’s some good catchphrases about him! There’s a player on the Detroit Lions whose last name is “Anzalone,” when he recently returned from an injury a segment of the fanbase was posting lots of jokes about “the return to the Anal Zone.”
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:12 am LW3, do you have the stone cold nerve to sing back at them? Like every time they enter your space singing, you assume that this is now a full-on musical and launch into Mambo Number Five? Potentially, they would get tired of holding up their end of this dynamic.
Juicebox Hero* January 13, 2025 at 9:03 am Exactly what I’d do. My voice is horrible, and my repertoire is vast.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 9:15 am “My voice is horrible, and my repertoire is vast.” This is a hilariously ominous statement- it’s bonkers enough I can almost see it in a serious Lovecraft-style horror story being spoken by some newly awakened elder god. I love it.
AMH* January 13, 2025 at 10:43 am Haha I’m not brave enough but I’d be tempted; my voice is so bad my cat will leap up and run away from me when I sing.
SuprisinglyADHD* January 13, 2025 at 11:04 am I love how ominous that sentence is: “My voice is horrible, and my repertoire is vast.” I hope I can remember it, it sounds like part of an epic poem or something!
Mockingjay* January 13, 2025 at 9:10 am I’d talk to the manager. Since OP 3 is stuck at the front desk (please send us a letter on THAT situation), they can frame it as disruptive or off-putting to clients and visitors.
Sloanicota* January 13, 2025 at 9:45 am #3 made me chuckle. My toxic trait is humming to myself without noticing. It’s a family trait (in fact, when visiting with my sister’s kids, it always reminds me that YES it is noticeable and YES it is annoying!). I think I’m being quiet but I bet it drifts louder over time. This is entirely a me-problem and anyone in my vicinity would be totally in the right to tell me to cut it out. I can control it, I just need to be conscious of it which is totally worth taking the effort to do in a shared space.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:52 am Similar issue. I wear headphones so as not to subject others to my music, but I will without doubt inevitably start singing along. I *think* I’m very soft/whisper singing, until a colleage or family member or person next to me on the plane will nudge me and inform me that I am, in fact, in full voice. Oops.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 7:44 am #1, does your university have someone who would be aware of local social programs and somewhat trained at gently dealing with people who aren’t great off social cues? This sounds a lot like someone who is homeless or similar, and has hit on the life hack of hanging out here, which is warm and dry, and he either doesn’t have the skills to figure out Sneaking 101 (e.g. don’t make noise), or is down in a spiral of life going wrong where it’s just very hard to figure out a way out of the rut you’re wearing. Reminded of a book about the LA library, and that the librarians realized “What are community services that could help me?” was a pressing need for the local community, and figured out how to address that.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 10:39 am I love this answer. There’s a compassionate response to this situation.
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 11:09 am In addition, I’m trying to be practical: When LW talks directly to the person, nothing happens. When LW calls building security, the response is that probably this problem will go away if they just wait and do nothing. (Also the exact tactic taken by our visitor, as it happens.) So LW could use some different suggestions.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 11:14 am I think sometimes good people mistake their fear of confrontation for compassion.
Elitist Semicolon* January 13, 2025 at 7:05 pm TRUTH. I have a friend who is in this sitch right now with an itinerant guy who keeps hanging around her business even though he’s been thrown out of about 4 others for harassing women and I cannot convince her that her “compassion” is why he continues to come in and make everyone, including her, uncomfortable.
Zap R.* January 14, 2025 at 10:16 am I once felt someone come up behind me and tug my arm on the sidewalk at night and reflexively yelled “Don’t touch me!” It turned out to be a homeless guy begging for change and another woman absolutely went off on me for my supposed lack of compassion. I was too shocked to say anything which was a shame because I absolutely should have let her have it.
The Other Evil HR Lady* January 13, 2025 at 7:44 am #2 – the tilde is very hard to enter into certain programs, even for us native speakers that know what we’re doing. Sometimes, even I will give up and just put “ano,” expecting the recipient to glean my meaning from context alone. Obviously, I don’t mean “anus.” It happens a lot when I’m texting, in particular, because my work phone doesn’t switch easily back and forth between English and Spanish (my personal phone does, go Samsung!). Anyway, I’d leave it alone, unless you wanna start passing around the Spanish Keyboard shortcuts (you can Google it), where Alt+0241 will allow you to enter an N with the tilde (see? ñ).
JR* January 13, 2025 at 10:02 am If you’re using a windows machine, window key + period pulls up a whole menu of special characters, emoji, plus more! It’s really useful.
Echo* January 13, 2025 at 12:33 pm Yeah, I’ve sometimes seen people write it ‘feliz anio nuevo’ for this reason. /nonnative speaker
Rocket* January 13, 2025 at 7:50 am Regarding LW#1, and I say this as a black woman, this person has no respect for the rules and need to be dealt with by security. The description of his behavior makes me this person might be dealing with some kind of mental illness and that means he could be dangerous. Fob access needs to be changed so its required 24/7 to these spaces to protect the people authorized to be there. And signs can be posted so there’s so claim of bias. But please do something, one day he might flip out and attack someone, and then the university will be sued because y’all knew about this situation and didn’t do anything.
badger* January 13, 2025 at 8:43 am “one day he might flip out and attack someone” is a hilarious escalation. One day anyone might flip out and attack someone! statistically the person who’s gonna flip out and attack someone is probably a professor.
Emily (not a bot)* January 13, 2025 at 9:31 am If a professor (or someone else authorized to be there) attacks someone, there’s no legal liability. There is *so much* documentation that this was a known problem, policies were being violated, and no one is doing anything about it.
ecnaseener* January 13, 2025 at 9:20 am Oh, can we please not do the “mental illness means he might be dangerous” thing? The data doesn’t back that up.
Caramel & Cheddar* January 13, 2025 at 9:46 am Seriously, what in the world is going on in this comments section today.
Rocket* January 13, 2025 at 10:33 am There are a lot of people in the world that have mental illness and we just don’t know about it until they start shooting up a school or start attacking people on the subway. There have been several high profile cases recently in New York City of homeless people with mental illness threatening and attacking people on the subway.
badger* January 13, 2025 at 11:16 am ah so sorry but this is not how logic works! how sad for you! This is called survivor bias, which is when you only analyse examples that pass a specific criteria (i.e. “I have heard about people that do bad things that I think have some sort of vague ‘mental illness'”) and do not include the full statistical picture (e.g. all the “mentally ill” people who do not do the bad things I have heard about are just busy trying to live their life)
inksmith* January 13, 2025 at 12:31 pm There’s also a lot of people in the world that have mental illness and we just don’t know about it because they don’t ever attack people or shoot up schools. And a lot of people in the world that don’t have mental illness and we don’t know about it until they DO shoot up a school or attack people on the subway. Just because they did a bad thing, doesn’t mean they’re mentally ill. In fact, all the people who did bad things to me were not mentally ill. The only person in those interactions who was mentally ill was me, and I wasn’t the one screaming at people, threatening them, stealing from them etc.
Rocket* January 13, 2025 at 1:09 pm “And a lot of people in the world that don’t have mental illness and we don’t know about it until they DO shoot up a school or attack people on the subway.” Yes, you are right! My point was that you don’t know what a person will do, you don’t know if someone is struggling with mental illness, stress, etc. This guy has already shown he has no respect for rules, do we have to wait until something terrible happens to a student or professor before something is done? And by “do something” I mean do not allow him access to this space, have security remove him, require Fob access 24/7, etc. It’d be different if he was being unintrusive and quiet, but he’s being disruptive, disrespectful of others in the area, and lying about who he is. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:23 pm In almost all of those cases, there have been warning signs. Escalations of behavior, such as raising one’s voice out of context, verbal threats, violence toward objects/walls, self-harm, and physical but non-lethal violence toward others. There hasn’t been any of that here. I agree that he needs to go, but there’s no need to go Code Red on this guy.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 2:42 pm There are a lot of cases of people without mental illness harming other people. Most murders aren’t committed by mentally ill people.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 2:05 pm Mental illness doesn’t necessarily make someone dangerous. I agree there are plenty of reasons why he shouldn’t be there but there’s no indication whatsoever that he is dangerous.
Ana Maus* January 13, 2025 at 3:00 pm Mental illness doesn’t necessarily make someone dangerous. Thank you.
Who Plays Backgammon?* January 13, 2025 at 4:20 pm thank you. people mean to be kind. but there are some problems that kindness cannot overcome.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:58 am That seems to be serious overreach. LW states nothing threatening about the guy. His worst offense is playing loud videos. It’s been going on for quite some time; if he was seriously mentally ill to the point of violence, I’m sure they’d have seen indication of that by now.
Gaia Madre* January 13, 2025 at 7:54 am For #1, I’m glad that you are taking a beat before calling in the National Guard to remove The Black Man from your space. Black people can die when the cops are called, they just can. No, he “doesn’t belong” there, I get it. Please proceed with caution and humility, like, you don’t know what his deal is, and you can’t control for the outcome. The best approach in my opinion is to lobby the building management to enforce fob use. Educational posters to discourage ‘tail gaiting’ and “hold the door please” behaviors. It can feel rude to say “sorry, I don’t know you and you’ll have to fob your own way in”, but THAT is the first line of defense.
k* January 13, 2025 at 12:48 pm “Doesn’t belong” really sticks out to me — it would be one thing if the letter-writer were reacting to specific security concerns (expensive or dangerous equipment, PII, etc), but the biggest issue seems to be that this person is someplace they aren’t supposed to be, taking up space they aren’t supposed to by being louder than expected. I can definitely see how that’s annoying, especially in the university world where quiet rule-following is the unspoken norm, but I’m not sure why it’s so important to this LW. I think they would benefit from some introspection into why “they’re not following the rules” is so important to them, maybe alongside reading about the characteristics of white supremacy culture.
nonbeenary* January 13, 2025 at 1:23 pm Ehhh, speaking as someone who works in a similar situation, except mine IS open to the public most of the time, this presents a pretty big safety concern not just for the employees but also for this guy in particular. How is he getting in over the weekend? Is he able to get OUT when the doors are locked? Some places that require a key-fob to enter also require a key-fob to leave. What happens if there’s a fire? Does he know where the emergency exits are, and would anyone know to look for him and make sure he’s made it out safely? Whose insurance covers it if he were to trip and fall down the stairs or something? Like, there’s a reason other than just “control” that non-employees aren’t supposed to hang around inside someone else’s place of work. I do think, given the safety concerns, building management should focus less on this one guy and more on patching the apparently large holes in their security, but that doesn’t mean this guy is doing nothing wrong.
Good Lord Ratty* January 13, 2025 at 1:35 pm “I think they would benefit from some introspection into why “they’re not following the rules” is so important to them, maybe alongside reading about the characteristics of white supremacy culture.” Is this a joke? Believe it or not, departments at universities are in fact allowed to have private break room spaces reserved for the use of people affiliated with those departments. It’s not “white supremacy culture” to want to retain such spaces for the use of the people they’re intended for just because the disruptive intruder happens not to be white. I’m not advocating calling 911 on this guy, but I’m just… flabbergasted at this response.
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 2:13 pm I mean even in workspaces where the public are allowed to come and go as they please, they take up a lot of your time and attention. They need to be watched over, catered to, kept from annoying each other and you need to ensure you don’t lock them in, or let them go somewhere off limits (like OP’s entire workplace). It’s not OP’s job to do any of those public job thongs…because they don’t work with members of the public! It’s like saying people should be able to come into your private space and do as they please.
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 2:50 pm I think it’s more the amount of lying and avoiding answering they are doing to try, rather ineffectually, to hide the fact they don’t belong. This person’s actions strike me as very odd. They are drawing attention to themself, then lying or evading in a way that screams aloud that is what they are doing. I don’t think this is related to white supremacy (though yeah, that is a real thing and means they do need to be more careful about reporting this guy in case somebody decides he’s a threat based partly on his race). I think a white person behaving the same way would be equally concerning. I mean they odds are probably that he’s either just really bad at lying and completely immune to embarrassment (I know if I were somewhere I wasn’t supposed to be and got caught out like that, I’d leave immediately and not come back) or he’s just enjoying winding them up, but it’s also possible he’s just really entitled and if they push any harder, he could become verbally aggressive or worse or even that he has some more problematic reason for being there – stalking somebody, enjoys the power of their knowing he shouldn’t be there but being unable to get him out, trying to cause trouble for some reason… Those aren’t especially likely but…who knows? I think the problem with “they’re not following the rules” in this case is that when people break “the rules” this blatantly and obviously, it usually means one of a few things – the person is doing it deliberately to make people uncomfortable, because they get a sense of power from being able to break the rules and knowing others can’t stop them or because they have really poor social skills and genuinely don’t realise how outside the norm their behaviour is or because they have some reason for what they are doing that they can’t explain because it’s really even worse than how it looks. Both 1 and 3 are concerning.
Yikes* January 15, 2025 at 10:34 pm Wow. Do you lock your doors? I hope not. that would be mighty hypocritical of you.
Rosey* January 13, 2025 at 7:55 am I wonder if the man in #1 might be waiting around for someone else working in the building. Maybe he’s their lift or boyfriend or special needs adult child or something (suggesting special needs because his behaviour is odd when asked to not play videos and the muttering). It would explain why he insists on hanging around in that particular building when he’s already been given the message that he’s not welcome. Would also explain how he’s getting in on the weekend. Not sure if that changes the advice. Building security still needs to do something. If the dude wanted to stick around he should be flying under the radar and not being obnoxious with his videos and behaviour.
MsM* January 13, 2025 at 8:52 am And why wouldn’t that person tell people “Hey, my son’s going to be hanging out in the lounge for a bit; if he starts being disruptive, just come get me”?
Who Plays Backgammon?* January 13, 2025 at 4:24 pm yes. And he’s there quite a lot for someone who’s just picking up another person and has to wait for their shift to be over. If this man is someone’s special-needs child just sitting there waiting, it is inappropriate, esp. if the man can’t take care of himself in emergency situations or might be triggered by something. Anyway, it’s not up to the uni employees to analyze this person and determine their motivations and needs.
Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure* January 13, 2025 at 8:55 am But if that’s the case his partner or guardian should be making people aware that he isn’t a total stranger, not leaving him on his own to disrupt everyone else.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 9:11 am Exactly. I once was in the position to be somewhere I shouldn’t (I was out with someone who got a surprise late night call-in to a hospital emergency and it was too cold for me to sit in the car, so I got put in the break room). I was given strict instructions to be quiet and if anyone questioned me, to tell them exactly who I was with and why, so it could be addressed properly. If the stranger is there with someone who belongs in the space, it’s up to the person who belongs to be sure their visitor isn’t acting weird or causing a disturbance.
Antilles* January 13, 2025 at 9:15 am This is only true if you completely ignore the parts of the letter where he’s being evasive when asked, mumbling the information in sentences that were otherwise clear, and even specifically lying about working for a different department. That shows pretty darn clearly that he knows quite well that he’s not supposed to be there.
Make it bold and make it red* January 13, 2025 at 2:19 pm Former university staff person here. I worked in admin offices, and we’d occasionally have staffs’ spouses or kids visiting or quietly hanging out, which was fine! Said staff person would either keep the family in their work area, or if they couldn’t, park them in an empty and unneeded conference room and let everyone know, “Hey, my sister is just hanging here until we leave for lunch. If you need the room, feel free to send her back to my desk.”
HannahS* January 13, 2025 at 8:15 am OP4, I’d suggest keeping it very simple with colleagues, orgaziners, and office-busybodies. Something like, “Oh, I have these complicated dietary restrictions, and I can get really sick. It’s probably best if I speak with the caterer directly.” Then for caterers, I’d suggest either asking what the meal is and requesting the modification (“Oh, it’s chicken pasta alfredo? I’m not able to digest fats and oils well, so for me, plain pasta and the chicken with no sauce, oil, or cheese would work”) or asking if specific things are available, (“I have pretty complicated dietary restrictions, and I can’t digest fats and oils well. Do you guys do a veggie wrap? If I could have that with no cheese or mayo and the hummus on the side, that would be great, thanks.” Avoid concepts like “less” or “some.” It’s too hard for people to judge how much olive oil is a lot.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:21 am Great advice on speaking in absolutes instead of “less” and “some.” A close friend of mine can handle some soy but can mildly react to too much, and because we’re friends I’ve learned what I can and can’t cook for her. If I was preparing one meal for a stranger, or in a work setting instead of for a friend who’d forgive me for making her itchy, I would just leave it out entirely.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 8:26 am LW1: If you (your collective group, not specifically YOU) are going to interact with this man, somebody needs to commit to getting a straight answer from him. Mumbling an answer and then refusing to repeat it because he “already told you” is a nonsense gambit that you’re all apparently just accepting. Send someone who’s willing to say “I’m sorry, I couldn’t understand you, could you repeat that” as often as necessary- politely and calmly, but firmly.
Myrin* January 13, 2025 at 9:02 am Yeah, I totally understand the OP’s point that he’s not particularly forceful or authoritative but the reaction to someone whispering or mumbling in a situation like this one can’t be “oh well, nevermind then”.
DE* January 13, 2025 at 9:55 am I think this shouldn’t be the responsibility of OP or his colleagues. They’re researchers and professors. Security should be handling this.
Lab Boss* January 13, 2025 at 10:09 am That was why I opened with the “if” they are going to interact- if they won’t/can’t, then they should be more comprehensive in how they report to security (I mentioned in a different comment although not here, it sounds like they reported it once and gave up when nothing happened).
dulcinea47* January 13, 2025 at 9:58 am Honestly tho that’s when you call security and let them handle it, it’s their literal job. IDK what’s up with the security at LW’s place or if they just never followed up after the first attempt.
Stuart Foote* January 13, 2025 at 10:38 am I think refusing to answer and then getting confrontational with follow-up questions is as close to a straight answer as they are going to get. The LW’s department is clearly afraid to actually do anything about the situation, so repeating “I didn’t hear you” isn’t going to change anything.
HonorBox* January 13, 2025 at 8:26 am The third letter makes me miss a coworker who passed away a few years ago. He’d sing from time to time. Sometimes it was a little much, but overall it was incredibly endearing, and something I didn’t think I’d miss hearing as much as I do. But, the key part of his singing was “from time to time.” And he’d also be conscious of others as he did it. If it was apparent that you were on a call or really focused, he’d move along and / or just stop. If I was the manager and someone came to me with this issue, I’d probably wonder if they said something. But I also would likely have a sense of how these two coworkers operate. That someone thinks it’ll just escalate the issue probably isn’t going to be new information for the manager. It would be best for the LW to have a conversation with their manager and suggest that it is making it really difficult for them to focus. We can’t expect to work in complete silence or with the exact amount of background noise that we’d prefer all the time, but I think it is reasonable to expect that you’re not working in the middle of choir practice.
JP* January 13, 2025 at 8:34 am I have a couple coworkers who sing and whistle as they walk the hallways or make copies. I’ve never heard them doing it when they’re sitting alone in their offices. Is it a relaxation thing? An attention thing? Why only do it in spaces where other coworkers are most likely to hear? Sometimes it’s not too bad, but there have been plenty of times that it totally disrupted my focus.
Tigres* January 13, 2025 at 10:12 am I, uh, sing in the hallways when I think I’m alone. It’s a sensory stimulation thing — when I’m working at my desk, my attention is focused, but when I’m just walking, I need to do *something else* to keep me on task. (I try not to do it when people are around, obvs.)
juliebulie* January 13, 2025 at 10:39 am I had a director who sometimes whistled in the hallways. It meant he was angry!
Falling Diphthong* January 13, 2025 at 11:10 am I like this as a supervillain origin story: The Whistler.
DisneyChannelThis* January 13, 2025 at 11:10 am We have a whistler and its the most annoying thing to me. Like I know it’s not a big deal but it’s utterly bonkers to me. There’s 148 people on this floor, you think all of us want to hear you whistle????
JustaTech* January 13, 2025 at 2:05 pm I used to have a coworker who sang in the lab. Never at her desk, or in the break room or anywhere like that, only in the lab, and usually she was singing along to her music (played out loud, wired headphones can be dangerous in the lab). This was fine because 1) she would always stop if you asked, 2) she never did it when anyone was trying to really concentrate and 3) she had a fabulous, trained singing voice. I’ll admit to singing in the lab, but only when I’m alone.
Insulindian Phasmid* January 13, 2025 at 2:42 pm A few times in school I caught myself humming because I was just having a good time on a project (once was in a home ec class learning to cook, which I hadn’t been exposed to much of before). The minute I realized it was out loud and not just in my head I stopped, but it was totally unconscious. I wouldn’t assume any intent.
monkeys* January 13, 2025 at 8:37 am honestly, giving LW1 advice aside, full kudos to this man for figuring out that a bunch of academics will be conflict adverse enough that he can get away with just dodging their questions and then just get to hang out. good for you sir well played.
JR* January 13, 2025 at 10:13 am For real. It’s astounding how unassertive they are. It’s almost like a virus you catch. I know a few people in college right now and they’re not like that outside of college issues.
HalesBopp* January 13, 2025 at 4:07 pm I know the assumption seems to be this guy isn’t supposed to be in the building, but I wonder if this guy is just screwing with them. This post reminds me a lot of a grad student I once knew who delighted in making people uncomfortable in this vein . . . LW indicated that, when asked about departments, the guy has named “a department not on that floor as the one he worked for,” which tells me he knows what departments are housed in the building. I also don’t know that his behavior endorses someone trying to stealth live in the building, given that LW has indicated that this person 1)is not there every day and 2) frequently leaves the building. Even being spotted on the weekend seems to support that this dude DOES have access to the building. If he was able to convince building management that he does have access to the building, it further supports the theory that he may just be screwing with LW and company. While I agree the videos at full volume in a public space is rude, it seems the only thing that seems to support LW’s theory is that this guy doesn’t play by social standards.
judyjudyjudy* January 14, 2025 at 12:38 am And the deliberately mumbling and avoiding questions? Straight up lying? Departments in this type of building may be listed in the lobby on a directory. And just because he got into the building on the weekend doesn’t mean he has authorized access. But irrespective of whether he has access to the building, what do you suggest the LW does about this person? The loud laptop?
HalesBopp* January 14, 2025 at 1:27 pm Taking the question of whether this person can be in the building out of the equation for a moment AND that LW has not indicated that this person has been aggressive or hostile, just rude – Find the most direct person in the office, a few of folks to be there as support, and go to the breakroom and sit as a group – when this person is in the break room, listening to videos, say, “Hey, this is a shared space. Can you please use headphones?” Then, if he reverts to playing videos aloud, “Hey – We just talked about this. Do you need headphones?” And then, “Dude – If you are unable to respect this space, you will need to find somewhere else to go. We are trying to enjoy our break here.” Ad nauseam. This needs to be addressed every. single. time. it happens. With fervor. It seems like the approach thus far has been to try and link this person to a supervisor to report this to, when there’s really an opportunity to just focus on the behavior. If this person is confronted by a group which continues to call him out every time this happens, and does not let up if the behavior doesn’t stop, he is unlikely to feel emboldened to continue.
judyjudyjudy* January 14, 2025 at 8:16 pm An excellent suggestion. And much more useful to the LW then speculating about whether this individual has authorized access or not.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 11:08 am Access to the space and the loud laptop videos are 2 different issues. The LW seems mostly concerned about the disruption of the videos, so that should be the focus. Ask him to turn it down or wear headphones EVERY TIME. If he refuses, “Sir, one final warning. This is a quiet space and if you continue to disrupt you will be escorted out of the building and will not be permitted back.” May need to get security to back that up. But clearly he has access as it’s in a non-Fob needed location. Focus on the actual issue of the noise not the maybe he does/maybe he doesn’t have legit access issue.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:28 pm If he is just screwing with them, then a chat with campus security and/or his supervisor might be just the thing to get him to stop playing this juvenile game.
Boss Scaggs* January 13, 2025 at 8:40 am For #5, when I’ve been in similar situations if Xena is the hiring manger and it’s her idea to bring you over, she will typically shepherd your application through the hiring process. Of course every company will handle this differently but I would start by talking to Xena and getting her take on the best way to maneuver. In some places, if Xena wants to hire you that would be a done deal, in others you would still have to go through a proces..
Grits McGee* January 13, 2025 at 8:40 am Massive sympathies LW#4, I have similar (undiagnosed) issues with fats. Like you, I also have a good idea of what the worst triggers are. In restaurant settings, I find it easier to just stick to dishes that I 100% know won’t make me sick because I just can’t trust other peoples’ assessments of how rich or fatty something is. I know my tolerance for fat before I get sick, but it’s just not worth the hassle of an extended Q&A session to figure out whether the dish in question is going to be below or above that threshold. Also, based on the experiences of my friend who has a dairy allergy, you apparently can’t trust restaurants to remember that butter is dairy…
HannahS* January 13, 2025 at 8:54 am OP3, no advice but sympathy. I’ve met people like that and I find them phenomenally annoying. I think they are the same people who pretend to be self-conscious but are actually thrilled when they exclaim, “OMG everyone’s looking at us! OMG you must think I’m so weird!” You and I and everyone else are all the supporting cast in the made-for-TV musical that they are starring in. I loved musicals; I was in the school plays and studied music quite seriously for a long time. No one wants to hear ANYONE singing in the hallway, even if they’re good. It’s distracting and annoying no matter how good you are. I have a funny memory of being in the music building study space at university and hearing Some Guy bust out his guitar and start strumming and humming. He was actually good! And it hit me: it’s still SO ANNOYING.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 11:12 am My husband, whom I love and cherish with all of my heart, has a glorious singing voice. It was part of what attracted me to him in the first place. Early in the relationship, we had to set very firm rules about where and when the singing could happen because that glorious, beautiful, god-given voice? SO ANNOYING.
N* January 13, 2025 at 9:23 am #1: I’m surprised no one else has mentioned this but maybe find some cheap headphones (from a gym or something) and offer them to him? He might be listening to videos out loud because he doesn’t have headphones.
DE* January 13, 2025 at 9:56 am I think this is a kind of condescending gesture, actually. It’s unlikely that a lack of headphones is the reason he’s being obnoxious.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 11:11 am But it IS the simplest reason and the most easily fixed. If he’s being asked to turn it down but he can’t hear otherwise so he keeps turning it back up, sounds like…he has no headphones to use. It’s worth a try. “Sir, can you please use headphones? If you don’t have any, I can provide you a pair.” Not condescending at all.
Zap R.* January 13, 2025 at 10:17 am If I didn’t have headphones, I would simply not watch videos at full volume in a location where it could disrupt other people. Watching Instagram Reels is not a life or death situation. I forget my headphones at home all the time. It doesn’t mean I can hop on the streetcar and ruin everyone else’s commute by blasting my playlist through my crappy phone speaker.
knitted feet* January 13, 2025 at 12:06 pm Right – if I don’t have headphones with me, I don’t play audio in shared spaces. I generally like to be understanding of people’s circumstances, but sometimes obnoxious is just obnoxious.
HonorBox* January 13, 2025 at 10:28 am While the videos at high volume (and in my book, any volume is too high in a public setting) is a problem, headphones isn’t going to correct the larger problem, which is that this is someone hanging out in a place that he’s probably not supposed to be. Just because this common area isn’t secured doesn’t make it a place that the general public is able to use. Headphones corrects the volume part but doesn’t fix the larger problem.
fhqwhgads* January 13, 2025 at 10:50 am Because the concern is not just the volume of his videos. It’s that he’s in a not-open-to-the-public space and is conspicuously evading the questions that would indicate he actually works there. And the one time he did answer audibly, his answer was known to be false. His playing the loud videos in the first place is probably what caused people to try to figure out who he was at all, and thus to the concern that, hey he doesn’t actually work here why is he here. If he wanted to fly under the radar he should’ve not been disruptive in the first place and everyone might’ve gone on thinking he worked for whatever group they don’t personally work for. Normal sequence: ask loud guy to stop being loud, he does briefly, then reverts, tell his supervisor he’s being disrupted and make it their problem Current sequence: ask loud guy to stop being loud, he does briefly, then reverts, try to figure out who he works for…he’s evasive and mumbly only on the relevant info…lies about where he works…conclude it’s unlikely he actually works there, ask security to come in, they don’t or do but not when he’s actually there, email AAM not knowing what next step should be.
inksmith* January 13, 2025 at 12:34 pm If he doesn’t have headphones, then no videos for him. They’re not essential for life; people don’t have a right to be annoying just because they don’t have/like headphones. Speaking as someone who commutes by train and really wishes people would take their phone calls off speaker/wear headphones while listening to music. If you don’t have headphones, you’ll have to live without music, and maybe remember your headphones next time.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:35 pm The core problem still remains though. It’s unwise to have unauthorized people in closed spaces for loads of reasons. If he had been in the university library, your solution might have been a good and kind one but some places are closed to the public for a reason.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 11:17 am But the LW said the cafe is outside of the closed area. Therefore, he’s *technically* in a publicly accessible place. If they truly want to limit who goes in there, they need to post an “Only staff and students permitted” sign or “fob” off the place. Otherwise, he is permitted to be there by default.
Yikes* January 15, 2025 at 10:39 pm I didn’t realize that watching videos in public was a human right.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:29 pm The campus library has study rooms which are warm, dry, well-lit, and private enough that he can watch his videos without bothering anyone.
sticky wicket* January 13, 2025 at 9:32 am LW #1: It seems like this man is freeloading a space that others are paying rent for and creating annoyances that make the space unwelcoming for others. That is enough reason to take some sort of action. The fact that he returns and keeps playing loud videos despite knowing everyone is on to him is strange. Most people would take that as a cue to stop coming, or at least to fly more under the radar. He is not abiding by usual social norms. (In a way it’s it’s own social science experiment – a test of your workplace’s passivity and everyone’s desire to avoid seeming like the bad guy in the face of ongoing irritations and potential security breaches!) Could you switch the building to key fob access at all times? Also make sure everyone with a fob has firm instructions to close the door behind them and to not to allow others to slip in when they enter. If that doesn’t work, you may need to confront him directly. Triple-check that he is not associated with any departments in the building. Then have someone with authority let him know that you know he doesn’t work there, there have been complaints, and the cafe is not intended to be a public area. Refer him to the local library if he needs a place to sit and use wifi. Possibly arrange in advance for a campus security person there with you as backup when you talk with him, who can then escort him out of the building to hit home the point. A friend of mine had a similar issue at her workplace. It was a building full of private offices but with publicly accessible restrooms. Word about the bathrooms got out, then more and more unauthorized people came in, including some who were disruptive. They were making messes and taking up a resource intended for paying office tenants. Eventually the building management put key codes on the bathrooms which solved the problem.
Rocket* January 13, 2025 at 10:39 am “He is not abiding by usual social norms.” – this! Key fob access at all times is the answer.
Lizzy May* January 13, 2025 at 11:28 am If you do switch to full time fob access, have all the fobs reissued. He’s been hanging around during fob only access time so its possible he has a fob. If he’s supposed to have one, he’d get one during the re-issue. If he has picked up a fob along the way from someone forgetting it or dropping it, etc. then he’ll be locked out going forward.
The Gollux, Not a Mere Device* January 13, 2025 at 4:53 pm Yes, have them all reissued. One possibility is that someone got their hands on an extra fob, and gave it to this guy. All that takes is management not deactivating lost fobs when issuing a replacement. Ages ago, the dorms at my university had physical keys. One day, I saw that someone had dropped a key on the convenience store counter, and I recognized the code as being the one for my dorm. I quietly picked it up, took it with me, and gave it to my boyfriend who lived off campus, to save me going downstairs to let him into the quad. Someone who’d wanted an extra key enough to pay for it could have reported they’d lost theirs. (Replacement keys were expensive, on purpose.) Yes, I realize I shouldn’t have done that, but we can’t go back and explain that to Past Gollux, and people were less cautious about such things in the 1980s.
sometimeswhy* January 13, 2025 at 1:29 pm Your parenthetical is funny to me because my first thought after reading that they were social science academics was that boy howdy it would be funny/not funny if someone was doing an experiment on them.
Irish Teacher.* January 13, 2025 at 3:01 pm I didn’t think of their being social science academics, but it did occur to me that this guy was winding them up/was trying to see how far he could push things or that it was some kind of prank. It seems to be going on too long for the latter, but if it were a once-off, I would wonder if it was some kind of TV prank show or something. I’d actually love an update if the LW ever finds out what the heck is going on. Nothing seems to me to really fit. Even stuff like him being homeless…well, you’d think he’d draw less attention to himself.
HailRobonia* January 13, 2025 at 9:34 am Spanish joke: I was taking a Spanish practice quiz and the teacher told me to translate “good morning.” I wrote “buenos dias” and the teacher noticed what I wrote and said “don’t forget: acute accent.” So I drew a tiny baby puppy over the I.
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 9:54 am #4 – Low fat diet. GRRRR. People are SO weird! You’re petit so the ONLY reason you could be thinking about a low fat diet is because you are still trying to lose weight? It couldn’t be because you have a heart condition, gall bladder issues, GERD (yes, high fat foods are a real trigger for some people with GERD), or any other medical condition? I just don’t understand why people jump to such stupid conclusions. I do think that when you bring this up, regardless of whether you give specific ingredients or just use the term “low fat”, I would phrase it more like “My doctor has put me on xxx diet”. The specifics are no one’s business, but this kind of verbiage indicates that this is a medical issue like any other.
Dawn* January 13, 2025 at 10:28 am LW2: A lot of native speakers of accented languages don’t bother using accents in casual conversation when their meaning is clear, just as a lot of native English speakers don’t follow all of the formal rules of their language colloquially. Let this one go.
Emotional support capybara (he/him)* January 13, 2025 at 10:32 am So, I work in the awards industry in an area with a large Spanish-speaking population. I learned very quickly that a single missing tilde turns “25 years of service” into “25 buttholes of service.” I learned almost as quickly that just like anyone else, even native Spanish speakers sometimes make typos. 99.9% of the time my policy is “they know the language better than I do so I’m not going to try and proofread their copy for spelling.” That 0.01% is “they definitely meant ‘años’ and I’m going to fix that. “
xylocopa* January 13, 2025 at 11:08 am My father was an editor for a university–a public university with many programs like public health. You can see where this is going. And yep, when it’s going to be in print or an important message, correct it; otherwise let it goooo.
H.Regalis* January 13, 2025 at 10:33 am LW1 – You’re in a university research building, so could you talk to campus security and/or campus police and see what they recommend? This guy might already been known to them.
fhqwhgads* January 13, 2025 at 10:38 am LW2, I think the key to your situation here is not to think of it as “correcting her Spanish mistake”, but as “telling her what she actually said”. Based on what you’re concerned about, I think that’s the crux of it coming off as you intend. In other words: you’re not telling her she got the Spanish wrong to correct her language. You’re telling her she accidentally said something hilarious (or mortifying, depending on her POV) because it’s useful for her to know. If you have that in mind, it’ll come through.
Tradd* January 13, 2025 at 10:43 am #3 – years ago I worked at a company where my MANAGER was a horrible singer. She did it all the time, loudly. She laughed if you asked her to quiet down so you could hear a customer on the phone. She thought it was amusing to sing loudly right next to me when I was on the phone with a customer. I was so happy when she left. No one could get her to stop, even higher ups.
Wingo Staww* January 13, 2025 at 11:11 am While I have empathy for the young man using the research area for whatever reason (warmth, needing a safe space, etc.), the university’s utmost responsibility is keeping its staff, students, and faculty safe from potential harm. I was an admin for a university building located in a downtown area where we had a lot of homeless people/people with drug problems who would wander in. I am not a fan of “shooing” people or needing to call campus ops on people, but my duty to our students and my colleagues was much more important. We eventually had to lock the doors and have only fob access for university members. There were also several million dollars of computers and specialty engineering equipment in the building.
Sneaky Squirrel* January 13, 2025 at 11:38 am Exactly this. It is a kindness to offer a blind eye to someone who needs the space and is not harming anyone, but a university has the responsibility to keep people safe first and that means ensuring appropriate security protocols. Should a situation ever arise because of this unauthorized visitor or another, the very first thing that’s going to get scrutinized is why security protocols were permitted to be lax.
JustaTech* January 13, 2025 at 2:22 pm At the university in my city a staff member was murdered by her Ex when he was able to tailgate a student into the building. (The building was already on alert for the guy, but he managed to get in with a crowd.) That was more than a decade ago and people there are still very serious about not tailgating in the non-public areas.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 11:22 am Other than his being there, there is ZERO evidence he is homeless or dangerous. LW would have included “he has serious hygiene issues” “he wears multiple layers of clothing” “he parks a shopping cart outside the door” etc… if any of those indicators were present. The assumption that he’s homeless seems far out to me. He clearly has a laptop and is clean and presentable enough that the LW didn’t feel a need to mention it. I think we all need to let the “oh the poor guy is prolly homeless” thing go.
Database Developer Dude* January 13, 2025 at 11:25 am Regarding the Spanish, you also must account for dialects, so be very careful when correcting others’ Spanish. Case in point, I was in an Army Reserve unit with a Puerto Rican and a Mexican in it. They were at the Golden Corral, and the Puerto Rican asks the Mexican “What are you going to choose for your dinner?” The Mexican, being the smart aleck he is, answers “I don’t know what you’re going to do with your food, but I’m going to eat mine!” The problem is that the verb for ‘to choose’ in Puerto Rican Spanish is the F word in Mexican Spanish. They were speaking Spanish so ‘Que vas a coger para tu comida’ was the actual question.
Texan In Exile* January 13, 2025 at 11:33 am Ummm. Yeah. :) (Also, when I heard someone talking – in Spanish – about the Brazilian singer Xuxa, whom I had never heard of, all I heard was “[ch]u[ch]a” and I gasped.)
Ialwaysforgetmyname* January 13, 2025 at 11:38 am I have lots of friends from Ecuador and Colombia, and I live in a US state where maybe half of the population is Spanish-speaking. Most of them don’t bother with accent marks in casual platforms like texting, Skype, whatever. Let it go.
NobodyHasTimeForThis* January 13, 2025 at 11:27 am LW#1 – I work for a university – you should call campus security directly and let them handle it. They will have the resources to check if he is authorized to be where he is and to let you know if you should contact him if he is in your building in the future. Building management is not usually involved in this sort of thing at our university.
vscolorado* January 13, 2025 at 11:31 am Long time academic, very much in favor of public use of University spaces, chiming in here: the clear line being crossed here has to do with an unknown/unauthorized person being in the building over the weekend when (presumably) the building is closed. As a smallish woman who has sometimes needed to use my office on the evenings or weekends to meet pressing deadlines, I can say I’ve often found it deeply unsettling to be one of the few people in a large institutional space. In these times, random fears (that usually don’t register for me) loom large and it would make me uncomfortable to have someone unrelated to the work that goes on in the building sharing that space. There’s no assumption or judgement about the individual here, it’s about the context – a large, locked building with almost no one else around. Given that university work does (unfortunately) still lend itself to people (especially grad students and junior profs) working nights and weekends, I think there’s a responsibility to report the weekend presence and to follow up to make sure there’s a response.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 11:26 am You say you’re making no assumptions or judgments here; however, the statement, “the clear line being crossed here has to do with an unknown/unauthorized person being in the building over the weekend when (presumably) the building is closed,” is one. I would counter with the fact that he’s in the building on the weekends/after hours is PROOF that he is, in fact, NOT unauthorized. He clearly has a fob for some reason and is able to access the space. Unknown is seemingly correct, but I don’t know everyone in my building of over 3000 people.
Yikes* January 15, 2025 at 10:42 pm Cool, then if he isn’t unauthorized, why has he continued mumbling/lying? If he is authorized, why not tell the truth?
Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around* January 13, 2025 at 11:45 am For LW#1, asking your lurker questions isn’t working (and he knows he doesn’t belong there, hence the mumbling). But some direct *telling* might help. As in, “Hi, we keep seeing you around and no one’s clear on what your doing here. If you’re going to keep that up you need to respect the space, use headphones, and not create drama. If you’re going to can’t do that, find somewhere wlse to be. Thanks!” Say it directly, loudly, and cheerfully. He’ll either become a good citizen of your accidentally public areas, or find somewhere else to lurk.
YesPhoebeWould* January 13, 2025 at 11:53 am Regarding the unwanted visitor, one option, if the cafe area has a sound system (many do) would be to play unpleasant or discordant music throughout the day other than when people who are actually supposed to be there are (so for example throughout the day, other than 11 AM to 2 PM. We had to do this many years ago at a place that I worked at in an area with a homeless problem. While I am deeply sympathetic to the issue, in our case, many of the “campers” caused problems of different sorts, including making visitors feel unsafe in the lobby and restroom, making the facility dirty, and sleeping on couches meant for visitors and communal work. The police got tired of coming out, so we largely solved the problem by cranking up the music system in the common areas (whenever we had campers) and playing Sousa marches, and unpleasant sounds, like Halloween recordings of shrieks and screams. It was unfortunate that we had to do that, and we did try to refer many of these folks to appropriate community resources, but in the end it became enough of a problem that we had to act. It largely worked.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:30 pm It’s just that it doesn’t sound like security and building management have actually done their jobs yet.
English Teacher* January 13, 2025 at 12:08 pm For #4: as someone with a lot of miscellaneous food intolerances with a couple of different sources, I find it easiest to ask if I can look at a menu, and give them one or two simple dishes. I suppose if there’s nothing on a typical menu that you can do without substitutions, it might help to give them more specifics, but even then I’d usually prefer just telling them what to ask for. I also sympathize with you on the dairy digestive issues …for some reason almost every adult alive, upon hearing that, feels the need to nod knowingly and ask/say “Lactose intolerance?” and if I honestly say “no”, 80% will go on to “allergy?” with a slightly frightened expression, as if I’m about to stop breathing roght then and there. and if I honestly say “no” to that, I’m often met with an expectant stare, as if I should obviously be offering an explanation. I hate diet conversations.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:28 pm I am so torn on #1. On the one hand, he isn’t exactly harming anyone. On the other, I’ve had two separate stalkers at two separate universities and it really is necessary for building security to do their jobs.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 12:32 pm I also HATE to bring up liability but what if something happens during a weekend, like a fire, and he’s there? How would anyone know who he was and that he needed to be rescued?
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 1:03 pm An add on to the stalker thing: The first and the worst was when I got a series of *incredibly* disturbing anonymous letters where the Poison Pen concealed their handwriting by tracing letters using some kind of stencil. They started out unpleasant but fairly impersonal. ”No one at [College] likes you.” ”No one at [College] will ever date you.” and got progressively more intimate. ”Everyone at [College] knows you won’t pass [Class I hadn’t passed].” Like, who many knew I hadn’t passed that class? To top it off, the Poison Pen always used the same type of postcard, one of those ”fill in the blanks” birthday party invitations. In my Alma Mater’s defense, they took it incredibly seriously. It was of course reported to the police and I had extra security and a panic number. They eventually stopped. I still don’t know who did it. I have some suspicions but I decided a long time not to try and confirm them. Unfortunately, I’ve had three other Poison Pens in my life. Ridiculous, I know! I’m a very uninteresting person so it’s weird. The last one was way weirder. I have been getting a second college degree at a completely different university and got an unsigned letter saying something along the lines of ”We love seeing happy fat trans women around campus!” Except I’m not trans. I would’ve shrugged it off as a weird thing, I’m 35 and not that sensitive anymore, but a classmate told me to inform my school. This school is a very small, weird hybrid of a civilian university and a military academy so security is very strict. They also took it incredibly seriously, especially in light of my previous experience. The chance that it would be the same person is about 0% in my opinion but security made me go through lists of students and staff and I got a panic number (again…!). Fun times.
Ellis Bell* January 13, 2025 at 2:26 pm I mean this is what it should look like. I will always remember how completely reassuring the security at my old job was when an ex said it “wasn’t up to me” to cut contact. I hope and pray, and even mostly believe that your poison pen is a rando you can forget about, and that OP’s unauthorized guest is totally harmless. But a security department who don’t show up, and doesn’t follow up? That gives me a lot more pause than an individual incident would.
Productivity Pigeon* January 13, 2025 at 2:41 pm Very good point. Staff and students need to be able to count on security doing their job and keeping them safe. I agree that this person doesn’t seem dangerous but as you say, it sets a bad precedent. As for my own poison pens… it is what it is. I don’t like getting letters I don’t expect but it’s mostly just a passing feeling. Luckily, I don’t get a whole lot of mail anyways, especially not these days with everything being digitalized. ;)
Nancy* January 13, 2025 at 1:31 pm LW1: Call campus security directly and let them handle it. LW2: Let it go, everyone understood the context.
Delta Delta* January 13, 2025 at 1:51 pm #4 – I think just saying you have a medical issue and have difficulty digesting fats would do the trick. My first thought was all the folks who tried foods that had Olestra in them back in the 90s and discovered very quickly what certain fats can do to a digestive system.
Space Needlepoint* January 13, 2025 at 2:58 pm I remember Olestra and I shudder when I do. I bet a lot of people do the same. My first thought was my friend who had their gall bladder removed.
I Have RBF* January 13, 2025 at 3:37 pm Yeah, and nowadays soybean oil does that to me. I discovered this when I was eating out at Dennys and always ended up in the bathroom a half hour after I ate. Dennys uses soy for everything, including a butter substitute.
Peanut Hamper* January 13, 2025 at 6:58 pm If you missed it back in the day…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9LSEjgQxY
Safely Retired* January 13, 2025 at 1:55 pm A bit of googling makes me think that #4’s problem is medically called “fat malabsorption”. How about saying “I have a condition called fat malabsorption, and excessive fat causes me big problems. That include (list of the worst).”
Observer* January 13, 2025 at 2:53 pm Too much. No one needs to know what the condition is, even if you were correct. In fact, the LW did actually mention their condition in a comment, but it’s totally not relevant. The answer is the same, regardless. “I have a medical condition” or “My doctor has advised me to avoid blah, blah, and blah.” Here’s my question, though. Why did you even go google her symptoms? And what makes you think that the very little information we got in the letter would enable you to get an actual accurate diagnosis? The reality is that the LW’s description could apply to a number of conditions, as well as the one they actually have. Having said that, your comment provides a useful example of why the LW should *not* provide any more information beyond the bare fact that she has a medical condition. The last thing she needs to have to deal with is people who do a “bit of googling” and come to conclusions about her situation.
Highnoon* January 13, 2025 at 2:40 pm How did I just *know* the Spanish mistake was going to be about años/anos?
NewBoss2016* January 13, 2025 at 2:48 pm LW#4 I have (well, had) a very similar issue. As far as at restaurants, I just avoid anything that seems like it could possibly have much fat, oil, or dairy and order sauces and dressings on the side. For catering, I have a list of places or food types I basically can’t eat anything from (looking at you pizza and BBQ and anything fried) My colleagues have heard “I am unable to digest x, x, x” so many times I am sure they can quote it haha. Randomly last year a new doctor gave me a medication that was developed for something totally different, but works magic for my issue. Now I take it before I eat “out” and it wrangles all the excess fatty substances in my stomach. I can eat ANYTHING now without repercussion. It is wild to be free after so many years of planning.
Susannah* January 13, 2025 at 4:21 pm Your semi-Spanish-speaking colleague may know very well that the word needs a tilde, but doesn’t know how to find that character on her keyboard. That’s true of me – half my family (by marriage) is Hispanic, but when I text them, I don’t have the appropriate tildes and accents since I don’t know how to find them on my keyboard. I’d let it go.. except to point out the unintentional faux pas (see what I did there?) of missing the tilde in that specific case.
Elizabeth West* January 13, 2025 at 4:21 pm #3 — Oh dear, this was me at an old job. It wasn’t an office job, but I had a Walkman I listened to in the mornings when I was working in the back room, and I did like to sing to my tapes. I’m sure I drove a few people nuts because I liked to listen to the same music over and over (mostly U2 and Peter Gabriel at the time), but they never said anything. I happen to be a very good singer — or at least, I was; my stupid thyroid has been messing with my voice. Despite that, it would have been perfectly fine for people to ask me to kindly stop with the concerts. I’m sorry these coworkers seem to be jerks about it.
Crencestre* January 13, 2025 at 4:25 pm LW1: Chances are that no one has taken a firm stand with this man (however annoying his behavior) because they’re afraid of being accused of racism. This must be taken into account when deciding the next steps because it’s a very real possibility and has the potential to cause a great deal of damage to the reputations and even the safety of anyone setting limits for this man. An accusation like is easy to make and almost impossible to ever shake off. This is very likely the reason that no one has stepped in to stop him! Here is where written, disseminated rules and policies are invaluable. They need to be posted, enforceable (because UNenforceable rules, like empty threats, are worse than none) and impartially enforced. It is absolutely essential that nobody ever be able to claim that these rules were enforced selectively! Following these guidelines should allow you to tighten security and ensure safety for everyone.
Raida* January 13, 2025 at 5:17 pm 1. Unauthorized visitor won’t leave our cafe I think the core of this is “We don’t know who this person is, they have been disruptive and uncooperative, multiple people have brought them up” = “they are lying.” Honestly, with the lying part, I’d be talking to Building Management about sending his photo around to every department to clarify if he works for anyone. If he does, his manager can talk to him about being considerate of the space. If he doesn’t then every time he comes in security should be told, to come immediately, get a good look at him, talk to him, explain that nobody knows him so he’s gonna need to provide his work ID and fob. And that instruction should come from Building Management. The biggest flag for me is – you’re all uncomfortable. You feel your height, when he’s sitting down, means you can’t succeed. A coworker didn’t approach because there was no crowd for safety and considered her kids as needing to be kept safe. Grad students – by which we mean adults – have pegged him as someone to notice. Also, while I do think you should more clearly lay out the issue to Building Management and expectations and timeline for investigation, I would include in that process also saying that if anyone states they specifically feel unsafe, you are instructing staff to call security, not Building Management. Then you can negotiate a bit of a “you hurry up and we’ll hold off” sorta thing
William Murdoch's Homburg* January 13, 2025 at 5:56 pm Letter 2: I’m just gonna throw it out there that lots of keyboards in non-Spanish-speaking countries simply don’t have the keys on them for Spanish accent marks. Given the context, people will almost certainly know what she meant. I’d leave it alone.
Lilian Field* January 13, 2025 at 8:12 pm I am a faculty member, replying to OP#1. I apologize that I have not been able to read all prior comments–only about the first half. But this kind of situation is not at all uncommon, as others have said. Part of the problem here is that the café seems to exist in a little bit of a grey area, in which it’s *sort of* intended only for the research community, and *sort of* intended as a public cafe. The ambiguity is part of the problem. If, truly, the café is supposed to be for the research community in the building, then there should be a fob on the entrance door, so that only members of the intended community can use it. I went to grad school in NYC and some of our cafés were this way, because otherwise they were overrun by unaffiliated Manhattan residents–no problem with that except that they took up all the tables. It’s not a big deal to put a fob pad on a building entrance door or a cafe door. If this coffeeshop is intended to be open to the public, most likely because it brings in extra income for somebody, then this person should maybe be handled in the way that indigent people usually are in public cafes. If you’ve worked at a Starbucks or other coffee shop long enough, you’ve probably had to handle a version of this problem. What I’ve seen, generally, is that if indigent people are (able to be) reasonably considerate of those around them, they are allowed to stay, no problem. But if they draw attention to themselves or disrupt the normal activities of the café–for instance, by making it impossible for people to focus on work–then they’re typically asked to leave. If they make it a habit, or they refuse to go, then security gets involved. It sucks to be the person who has to ask them to leave, and it ought to be the café manager. This is above the pay grade of the person who wrote in. But it is 1000% normal and expected for public coffee shops to have use policies and to evict people who break them, and sometimes it is expected that, if you work in a coffee shop, you have to be the one to enforce the policy. You *do* need to know what the full protocol is–do you call campus security or the local police? Etc. A vital question here–who is benefiting financially from having this café be open to the public? Who profits? Is it building management or a department somewhere or what? Ultimately, the buck should stop with them, because it’s their desire for profit that is enabling the problem to occur. Finally, as a lifetime academic, volunteer at homeless shelters, and coffee shop employee–not to mention someone with significant mental health issues myself–I want to say that this guy does seem a little off in ways that suggest he should find somewhere else to camp out. Playing videos loudly in public spaces isn’t just clueless; it’s a bit antisocial. So is lying. It suggests trouble with social boundaries that often goes along with other forms of harassment or nuisance behavior. In multiple cases I’ve discovered after the fact that a seemingly harmless dude like this was actually trying to exert dominance in other less benign ways, like harassing visibly queer students and faculty. The older I’ve gotten–and, frankly, the more marginalized I’ve gotten, and the more I spend time in marginalized communities–the more I recognize these kinds of behavior as red flags about other less benign problems that might occur out of sight. I can say that any experienced university admin or coffee shop manager would ask this guy to leave, maybe with a kind list of other places he could hang out/resources to contact in the city.
New Jack Karyn* January 14, 2025 at 10:36 pm I suspect that it’s not a cafe in the sense that one can buy a latte or a snack. More like an open-area break room, maybe with a microwave and a kettle. The department might spring for crappy coffee and a few boxes of bagged tea. That kind of thing.
Introvert Teacher* January 13, 2025 at 8:43 pm haha. feliz ano nuevo. Now when you tell Mary she may say, “estoy embarazada” and you’ll have even more fun correcting that one :) (meaning “I’m pregnant” but often mistakenly supposed as a cognate for “I’m embarrassed”)
Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)* January 14, 2025 at 6:03 am 1. The department I worked at in the university had very strict security and a long history of people trying to break in to let all the animals out. We also had a cafeteria nearby that wasn’t as strict. A few people who’d set up shop there all day and be very disruptive were found out to be not students and not staff and were told to move on. If you couldn’t produce a student ID, staff ID or have someone with one of those vouch for you then you had to go. All the moralising of ‘but maybe it was warm’ or ‘maybe they didn’t understand the question’ can make one feel good but ultimately doesn’t solve the issue. Our campus security got involved when we pointed out one of them had been seen taking photos of the lab buildings.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 9:54 am There’s some conficting information in the first letter. LW says the building is open M-F 8-5 but requires a fob at all other times. However LW also says, “Grad students have also reported seeing him around over the weekend sometimes,” which seems to indicate that he does, in fact, have a fob that permits him access. I see 2 scenarios: 1) He does work or attend grad school there and is just weird or 2) He has a friend or family member who works/attends there and they gave him a fob so he could hang out there. But, presumably those who work there have some sort of bade, or student ID or whatnot. I don’t see harm in asking to see it, when/if he gets disruptive watching loud videos again. Otherwise, if he’s harmless… Meh.
Nina* January 15, 2025 at 10:27 am which seems to indicate that he does, in fact, have a fob that permits him access Or, more likely in the case of someone who refuses to explain why he’s there and repeatedly lies about where he works, he slipped in after someone who does have a fob and a legitimate reason to be there on the weekend.
What_the_What* January 15, 2025 at 11:33 am Weird that so often on the weekend there just happens to be a person working who is so unaware of his/her surroundings that they repeatedly let in a fobless stranger. The most likely answer is usually the correct one. He probably has a fob. Whether he got it thru legit channels is another thing, but hanging around every weekend hoping for a fob holder to need to work seems … out there. Not sure why everyone is assuming this guy is nefarious, versus just… socially clueless. LW doesn’t indicate he appears homeless or threatening. Just plays loud videos is his biggest offense.
little_lab_friend* January 15, 2025 at 2:52 pm To me, the most likely answer is someone held the door for him. I don’t see that as being more complicated, frankly. There’s a lot of social pressure to be “nice” and hold the door for someone — especially for women. People feel awkward shutting the door in people’s faces. Also, I have for sure been “followed through” a subway turnstile by someone that didn’t want to pay. They actually just shoved me through the turnstile with them following closely behind me. I didn’t get a chance to protest or avoid it, and no way was saying anything to this guy after. But also, IT DOESN’T MATTER. This disruptive behavior is the laptop thing and his evasions and outright lies.
H3llifIknow* January 15, 2025 at 10:07 am LW2: I think laughing at her “mistake” was kind of obnoxious, even if in private. Do your keyboards HAVE the option to use an n with a tilde when typing? Mine doesn’t. Most don’t. I have the ~ next to the 1, but there’s no way to place it OVER a letter. Your coworker did the best she could. Why would you want to embarrass her? LW4: I’d change Alisons wording a little, “I’m unable to digest fatty foods, such as butter, mayo, heavy cream, and any other high fat content foods.” If you specifically point out only butter, mayo, cream, then it’s possible you’ll get fatty meats, deep fried chicken, etc… since they’ll be focused on avoiding ONLY the specific items you mention versus “high fat foods” as a whole.
little_lab_friend* January 15, 2025 at 2:50 pm To me, the most likely answer is someone held the door for him. I don’t see that as being more complicated, frankly. There’s a lot of social pressure to be “nice” and hold the door for someone — especially for women. People feel awkward shutting the door in people’s faces. Also, I have for sure been “followed through” a subway turnstile by someone that didn’t want to pay. They actually just shoved me through the turnstile with them following closely behind me. I didn’t get a chance to protest or avoid it, and no way was saying anything to this guy after. But also, IT DOESN’T MATTER. This disruptive behavior is the laptop thing and his evasions and outright lies.
rice with... nevermind just rice* January 15, 2025 at 11:43 pm OP2 reminds me of the time the cafeteria in the hospital where I worked decided to celebrate Cinco de Mayo with a “Arroz con Polla” special menu item. The posters were everywhere for at least two weeks.