should we offer severance to a belligerent, hostile employee?

by Alison Green on January 15, 2025

A reader writes:

I recently had to fire a manager for a belligerent, profanity-laden outburst during a board meeting. He has not been doing his job and has been suspected to be drinking or have been drunk while working (although no proof). To further complicate things, his manager has not done his job by documenting the problems and is now pushing me to provide some sort of severance for good will. However, I feel we have a termination with cause for insubordination. What is your suggestion on whether we need to pay severance in this instance? He is talking to a lawyer regarding a possible hostile workplace or wrongful termination lawsuit.

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • My employee gave her puppy the same unusual name as a coworker’s new baby
  • How can I see what I’ll have to sign as a new employee before I accept an offer?
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{ 258 comments }

{ 258 comments… read them below }

  1. Pyjamas*

    Re: puppy, it’s kind of a compliment? But when I was a kid, I gave a puppy my brother’s middle name. The only reason I didn’t choose my brother’s first was bc it was also my dad’s. That would have been confusing for everyone, especially the puppy

    1. mango chiffon*

      I have been in work conversations where someone’s dog had the same name as a new coworker. The coworker with the dog (and the dog) had been known before the new coworker started, but it did make for confusing and awkward conversations when we were completely remote if people only knew about the coworker instead of the dog. IMO it’s highly dependent on the relationships of the people involved, but it sounds like the LW’s situation is more of a difficult one

    2. LaminarFlow*

      100000% would be honored if someone decided to name their puppy my name. I don’t care if it’s to honor me, to troll me, has nothing to do with me, etc.

      1. NotBatman*

        I’m a human who is named after a dog! She was a chocolate lab who was very sweet and once saved my then-2-year-old sister from falling down the stairs. That said, I recognize not everyone would find this as much of a mildly amusing non-issue as I do.

    3. Another Kristin*

      I can’t imagine spite-naming a pet I was going to have for 12-15 years. That is a LONG time to be reminded of someone you can’t stand. I’d say it was more likely Jane heard the name and loved it, then used it for her puppy.

      1. Nerdy Library Clerk*

        She might even have forgotten where she heard it or that she heard it. The name might just have popped up in her mind when she went to name the puppy.
        Brains do funny things.

      2. Cmdrshprd*

        Eh, if they really are spitefully, and have a continuous relationship, it could be that the coworker is just saying the dog is named Achilles, but in reality the dogs name is rex, and at home call the dog rex.

        Or even officially gave their dog two names, Achilles rex and just calls the dog rex at home.

        my cats official name is “king James” but normally we just call him James, unless he is in trouble or are officially introducing him at a formal dinner party.

    4. Olive*

      I have a human name that’s also a popular dog name and I #$%&*($ hate it and I lowkey hate the people who feel the need to tell me “I had a dog named Olive” (not real name).

        1. Olive*

          Huh, I don’t know any dogs named Bella, but since that’s not my name, I guess that people don’t feel inclined to tell me about their dogs named Bella.

          1. Nah*

            I can think of three I know personally off the top of my head, and my friends that does vet med will often have 3-5 a *day* on the schedule. Luna is another popular one right now, though that’s more evenly split between cats and dogs.

            2. Grizabella the Glamour Cat*

              Willow is another extremely popular pet name, especially for cats. If I had known how popular it was, I might have chosen something else. I don’t mind that much; I just would have preferred something a little more distinctive (although I did get a kick out of it when the Bidens adopted a cat named Willow). My previous cat was named Logan, and that worked out great–I have yet to run across another cat or dog with that name.

              The closest I ever came to pet named named after my daughter was meeting someone who already had the same name as her. Since they already named the dog before I ever met them, there was obviously no question of taking it personally, but I don’t think I would have cared if they did name the dog after her on purpose.

              The things people get bent out of shape over really surprise me sometimes.

              2. Annie Oakley*

                We had a rabbit named Logan who we adored. A coworker named his son Logan and while I don’t think he named his son after our rabbit, there could have been a smidge of positive association :)

    5. bishbah*

      When I was six, I wanted to name my new kitten after my younger brother. He suggested a variant of his name instead, and so it was for the next 13 years. Many decades later, I named my next cat after a first cousin. (Heidi, because she hides.)

      I am not creative.

      1. Zombeyonce*

        I love how kids name things. When I was pregnant with her little brother, my 3-year-old daughter wanted us to name the baby “Daddy.” No, not after her father, but “Daddy” as the actual name. When I asked her what she would then call her dad (who she called “Daddy”), she looked at me like I was an idiot and said “Father.”

        She also names all her stuffed animals the animal plus a y (doggy for the dog stuffy, snakey for the snake stuffie, etc.). It’s hard to come up with creative names!

        1. Rainy*

          When I was a child, my sister and I each got to name one baby goat from each year’s crop. After the second year of that, my sister’s kid to name was always male, because she gave them the same name every year, and it would have been too confusing to have multiple goats with the same name. So I, a sensible child who understood how names were meant to work, named the does that would more than likely stay with the herd, and my sister named the bucks that would either end up in the freezer or be sold, depending on bloodline and quality.

        2. SpaceySteph*

          My 3yo has a thing for monkey stuffed animals specifically. Their names include:

          Baby
          Big Monkey (is a larger stuffie than the others)
          George (is actually a Curious George stuffie, but so is Baby- they were identical stuffed animals but she can somehow tell them apart by the particular grime pattern they each carry)
          Monkey
          Baby Monkey (a slap bracelet stylized as a monkey)

        3. Timothy (TRiG)*

          Child me had a stuffed turtle called Tortoise. I was very clear that Tortoise was his name, but he was a turtle. (He was also pink.)

        4. Sharpie*

          One of my cousins had a favourite stuffed toy called Big Dog. It was big (to her at the time) and a dog.

          Very young children don’t have a whole lot of experience with a whole lot of names, let’s be fair!!

          1. Aww, coffee, no*

            Yup, I had three stuffed animals named Dog, Cat, and Snake which were, respectively, a dog, a cat, and a snake. Plus a large doll (that could talk) named Big Doll and a rag doll named Rag Doll.
            #Notallchildren, but *I* sure wasn’t creative with the names.

    6. Elle*

      Someone I was friends with in college gave her daughter the same name as me (it’s not Elle). I never particularly liked her and we’re not in touch anymore — not even on social since I stopped using Facebook years ago. I’m not offended or flattered, if anything I’m just mildly amused on the rare occasions I remember the daughter exists. Oddly, she anonymously visits my LinkedIn often enough to always show up in my recent visitors, which I only check every few years (usually when I’m looking for a job).

      It’s bizarre that I apparently take up that much of her brain space, but also, who cares?

      1. Lions and Bears*

        Someone I was friends with in 4th grade (but haven’t encountered since) had a very unusual name that would be a STRONG contender as a name for a daughter if I ever were to have one.

        I would totally LinkedIn-stalk this lass if I had any clue what her last name was, or where she ended up after 4th grade, but alas. (Like, idk, once every year or two, or something, not *frequently*, I’m not a creep, I just really liked this girl’s name.)

        1. Meep*

          I know it (rightfully) tweaks people when someone names their kid after a past ex, but my daughter shares the same (unusual) name as a crush my husband had back in elementary school. I am the one who suggested it first, though, because I like unisex names and have one myself. lol.

          1. Reality.Bites*

            Sorta related – I’ve started dating someone with the same first name as someone I started dating 20 or so years ago. The name begins with an A. It makes me feel like I’ve dated through the alphabet and am starting on round two.

            (Sadly, I haven’t)

            1. amoeba*

              My boyfriend and my (only serious) ex share the same name, only spelled slightly differently… and I’m still good friends with the ex, so that does get confusing sometimes, lol.

      2. Olive*

        My daughter’s name is the same as someone’s I knew high school – we were casual friends but not close personal friends. But it was the name I really loved! I don’t see the situation as having named my kid after an acquaintance. More like, long ago, I met someone with an awesome name.

        It does make some difference that I did like the other girl when I knew her though, but only in the sense that I’d be unlikely to give my kid a name that I mostly associated with a jerk.

      3. SpaceySteph*

        My daughter has the name of my former HS best friend (we had a falling out senior year, I honestly was devastated at the time although its been 2 decades and I’m well over it) but its coincidence. My daughter is named after my grandmother who died when I was in college. I’m Ashkenazi Jewish and its our tradition to name for deceased relatives; my grandmother went by another English name that began with the same letter but her birth certificate showed the name I used for my daughter (ex with different names: imagine she went by Sylvie but her birth name was Sarah)

        (I don’t think this comment is about me though because I have never been to her LinkedIn.)

        1. Reality.Bites*

          Same background. My paternal grandfather died before any grandkids were born, so the male children of his three children were named after him.

          Our grandfather, sadly, had one of the classic biblical names that’s perennially a top name for boys, so all three had the same first name. Two had the same last name.

          I’m one of them, and had a first cousin with the same first and last name, same age, and for two years, same school.

          It really wasn’t a problem. Because it’s a fine name, none of us changed it, got a nickname or even shortened it. Our family has certainly had problems. This wasn’t one of them!

        1. Elle*

          Yeah at first I just thought she liked the name – it’s unique enough that I’ve only ever met one other person with the same name, but spelled differently. But why is she keeping an eye on me after 20 years? That’s just weird. I can’t figure out whether she doesn’t realize how unique her job title and industry are or if she wants me to know she’s looking.

    7. Elsewhere1010*

      My cat’s is named Elizabeth Charlotte Carlisle. If there are any Elizabeth Charlotte Carlisles already out there, I’m sorry.

      PS Informally she’s known as Kitty Carlisle.

    8. PhyllisB*

      My oldest daughter has an unusual first name. (Thankfully, she’s always loved it!!) When she was getting a car loan years ago the loan officer exclaimed, “I LOOOOVE your name!! I’m about to get a new puppy. Would it be okay if I name her after you?” Daughter was stunned, but said um, sure. I always wondered if there is/was a dog out there with my daughter’s name.

    9. not nice, don't care*

      I named the first dog I had naming rights to after my best friend. Granted, I was kindergarten age. Friend didn’t mind.

    10. Generic Name*

      Legend has it my kindergarten teacher named her cat after me (my mom swears it was a compliment)

  2. CityMouse*

    I don’t know that a boss can really get involved in the puppy thing. It’s not really within work scope and feels likeover extending into personal life. I’d focus on the tangibles at work.

    1. Person from the Resume*

      But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work? It designed to be some sort of insult to her coworker that she doesn’t like.

      The boss can take the tact, that you can name your dog whatever you want but you don’t get to talk about your dog by name at work. Which is annoying overreach except that we all know the dog was named that way maliciously.

      1. Two Siberian Huskies*

        1. We “know” no such thing. It’s “ malicious” only if you think the employee has some proprietary right to the name “Achilles.”

        2. Saying “you can never discuss your dog at work” is stupid. Dogs improve morale. How about telling the employee she can’t discuss her baby at work?

        1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          It’s malicious if it was done with malice. Things don’t have to meet some sort of objective standard of reasonableness not to be malicious.

        2. Reality.Bites*

          My last dog was named Sebastian (actually Sébastien, since his first human was French-speaking). I got him as a young adult dog, after he had to be rehomed. It’s not a name I would have chosen, but I lived with it. Now I’m wondering if he was named as an act of revenge.

          Fortunately he was half border collie and I never needed to call him. I could beckon with a finger from 100 feet away and come running. He always visually confirmed my location about every 10 seconds when off leash. He was not about to risk me running away or getting lost! ;)

      2. Dinwar*

        “But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work?”

        There can be good reasons.

        When we got our first dog, before we had kids, I’d wrestle and play with him, and his little puppy teeth would do what predatory teeth generally do to flesh–my arms looked like someone took a weedwhacker to them. So, to avoid questions, I wore long sleeved shirt. In August. In the South. I did not avoid questions. And it’s sort of hard to talk about your dog without naming the dog, English isn’t built to naturally handle such sentence structures on a regular basis. So yeah, they all knew the dog’s name–and “Where did you get that name?” is a natural enough question, so they knew he had my great-grandfather’s name.

        Secondly, people get excited about puppies. It’s natural and normal for people to want to talk about them. That doesn’t stop just because someone else happened to use the name or have other positive things in their life they are excited about. If my boss told me to stop talking about my dog by name because it was similar to someone else’s I–and my coworkers–would laugh at them! Not joking here, we’ve had such mutinies in the past. And that is a completely appropriate reaction to such an egregious over-reach of authority. When your rules are “Don’t act like a normal human being” your rules are bad and you should feel bad. (That’s a generic “you” here, not directed a you in particular.)

        1. mango chiffon*

          Is it really hard to talk about a dog without naming it? I often talk to people at work about “my brother” or “my mom” or “my parents” and do just fine. Is it so much different for “my dog”?

          1. Dinwar*

            It’s awkward enough that expecting people to do so regularly isn’t reasonable. Nor is using the name of the animal unreasonable. That you choose to do it isn’t really relevant; it’s not the way most people speak in normal conversations, and you can’t police people’s conversations to that degree.

            And what do you do when someone inevitably asks “What’s his name?” It’s a perfectly normal question–I asked it twice on Monday, when a guy was showing me photos of his dogs.

            1. mango chiffon*

              I suppose that’s true! No one ever asks “what’s his name” when I talk about “my brother”

              1. LL*

                I’m sure your brother is great, but coworkers’ pets are way more interesting to talk about than coworkers’ siblings!

            2. londonedit*

              Yeah, I feel like the first thing anyone does when they see a photo of a cute puppy is say ‘Awwww! What’s his name??’ And then it’s weird if you don’t say what the dog’s name is!

            3. amoeba*

              This, I always ask for pets’ names when people show me pics/are talking about them! (And I’ll also ask for pics when somebody mentions they have a pet…)

          3. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

            One of my teammates only referenced his partner as “my partner” for years because she has the same name as another teammate. I only found out when I met her as his +1 to a company holiday party. somehow, we all survived the experience. He continued to call her “my partner” I’m the office.

          4. SimonTheGreyWarden*

            I have 3 cats. Sometimes it is hard to talk about them without naming them, if I’m only talking about one.

          5. metadata minion*

            It’s not particularly hard, but I have trouble seeing why it would be necessary in the normal course of things.

          6. not nice, don't care*

            It’s not hard, but in a collegial workplace it takes extra effort. I’d super side eye any coworker who had an issue with naming pets or people who came up in discussion.

        2. Artemesia*

          yeah almost certainly this was an attempt to needle the new parent. But there isn’t much to be done. I’d probably talk with the new parents and just say ‘look I know her making a fuss about naming her puppy the same as little Achilles is annoying, but there is nothing we can do about it, so I think the best approach is to gray rock this. Be indifferent. People who try to get a rise really suffer when others just don’t care.’

          1. Rainy*

            How, though? It’s a name. Pets have names and in my experience it is not terribly usual to name a puppy *at* someone. It *is* common to have a name in mind for a while that you think would be nice for a pet and to name that pet even if you later meet a person or another pet with that name, it *is* common to hear a name and think “gosh, what a great name.”

            It’s also pretty common to get a puppy already named and depending on age, not go through the hassle of changing it. I just got a kitten that was being fostered, and I asked if he had a name, not that I was necessarily going to use it, and the fosterer said “well, his litter were Js so we’ve been calling him (name) but we also try really hard not to get them used to a name while they’re with us.” Which is good because I named him something else before he’d been with us 24 hours!

            Also worth noting that if puppy owner has been wanting to name a dog Achilles for the last decade and has finally had the chance, the coworker and manager STFUing about it is exactly what she would want, because pup and baby’s name is an unfortunate coincidence. She might not be trying to get a rise out of anyone, she might just be living her best life with a dog with an awesome name.

            1. Reality.Bites*

              My non-judicial judicial opinion is that it may have been done deliberately and maliciously, but there isn’t a chance of hell of proving it to workplace standards, let alone legal ones. So I don’t see a role for the company in addressing this at all.

              People have nearly 100% control over what they name their children and pets and there really isn’t anything anyone else can do about it, even if they don’t like it.

              1. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow*

                Agreed, this was either an eccentric, obnoxious, or tone-deaf move but isn’t worth the manager addressing.

        3. Any mouse*

          regarding the puppy name

          when my brother was born he went several days without a name. one of the issues was the preferred name was also the name of a relatives pet and also the name of a other close relative’s significant other.

          finally my brother got his name, the pet eventually died and the relationship ended so the only reason anyone remembers the dog and the ex is this story

          1. Bast*

            Ah yes, family name drama. We had some (before I was born, but I have heard the tale multiple times) where my aunt and a cousin were both considering the same name. They were due within months of each other. The name was a Top 10 name for the time period, (think Jennifer or Ashley) and yet, both think they owned the name. Neither would give. They both had different middle name ideas, but could not give up the idea that the other was stealing “their” name. It caused a huge family feud where both ended up naming their daughter the same thing and refusing to speak to each other for years as a result of the “theft.” Everyone involved is super embarrassed when this story comes up, 40 ish years later.

            1. Rainy*

              One of my ex-gfs had the same thing happen with her name, in the ’70s–she and a cousin’s kid were born a few months apart, cousin’s kid was born first and got the name that ex-gf’s mom had picked out, ex-gf’s mom named her that anyway (different spelling but not a Tragedeigh, just a simplified phonetic spelling for ex-gf). The weirdest part is that it wasn’t a hyper-popular name–I just checked and it peaked in popularity some years after ex-gf and her cousin were born and still never broke the top 100 according to the SSA lists, so pretty weird that both ex-gf’s mom and her cousin were set on it. I don’t think anyone stopped talking to anyone but things were tense for a few years.

            2. not nice, don't care*

              When I look back over my recent-ish family tree I am amazed at how many family lines use the same few names over and over. Times do change.

              1. Dog momma*

                In my FT, on my father’s side, seems like everyone in 3-4 past generations on his dad’s side used the name Paul. Difficult when you are trying to figure out people in the 1800s. There’s even a cousin that did ” John Paul ” & ” Paul John ” for SIBLINGS. names slightly changed even though they are deceased. Ridiculous. That stopped with my brother. His son is named after great grandpa with my brother’s name for a middle name. My brother is named after grandpa and our father so he is ” the third”. Said there wouldn’t be ” the IV”.

              2. Alpacas Are Not Dairy Animals*

                It’s super normal for multiple cousins in a large Catholic (religiously or culturally) family to have the same name, because there’s a lot of people and saint’s names are favored if not required. It’s always odd to me when people treat it like an issue; that’s what middle names, nicknames, etc are for!

            3. Nah*

              Meanwhile my aunt named my cousin my middle name, and another my “if-you’d-come-out-with-different-genirals-as-a-baby” name. Which was kind of frustrating when I came out as trans and was looking for a name, but I found something else I liked better and we’re all happy about it.
              Also my family has like 8 Michaels & Jonathans in one single generation, both as miscellaneous cousins and married-in partners (and yes, one of them is a paired Mike/Jonathan couple, ha).

          2. LL*

            If I’d been a boy, my name would have been the same as my boy cousin who was born a month after me. My parents didn’t discuss potential names with my aunt and uncle, so nobody knew. I still wonder if my aunt and uncle would have chosen a different name in that alternate reality.

          3. SurlyAF*

            When I was a kid I named our first dog Sara, and about four years later my aunt named her baby Sarah. It wasn’t any big drama since we didn’t live nearby, though the whole family got together about 4 times a year. It became a family joke, “Do you mean Sarah the girl or Sara the dog?” We still joke about it *cough*40-something years later.

            1. amoeba*

              We once had three Tobys in our lab, two of which were human, one was a dog. We called them Toby 1-3 – the dog was 2, because they were numbered by order of arrival!

      3. Wendy Darling*

        When I got a new puppy my co-workers asked me what his name was. I had a TON of conversations that went

        “What did you do this weekend?”
        “We brought our new puppy home, he’s so cute but so tiring!”
        “Oh my gosh what’s his name do you have pictures???”

        He also occasionally appears in the background of Zoom meetings when I work from home, and people sometimes ask about him including what his name is.

          1. Reality.Bites*

            No one loves dogs quite as much as someone who loves them, but doesn’t have any.

            There used to be an American Apparel in my neighbourhood, where I was sitting outside on community steps with my dog (and other people). For some reason he was interested in the store, and one of the employees asked me if I’d be okay letting him come in. So there was my dog, off leash, running madly through a clothing store, shedding everywhere.

            1. All The Tired Horses*

              This is true. I am 10000% a dog person, and am currently without a dog, and I lose my mind when presented with the opportunity to meet a good pupper

        3. UKDancer*

          Yes I mean I’m not massively a dog person but if someone says they’ve got a new dog, I’m going to ask the name and breed as a way of expressing interest. Then probably ask for a picture / the dog to be lifted up to be visible on zoom so I can say how cute he or she is depending on whether it’s a zoom meeting or an in person chat.

          I’m not particularly interested in the name but it’s a safe thing to ask to show interest.

          I mean I had a chat with a colleague today who was going for a horse riding lesson after work and the first thing I asked was what the horse was called. It’s the way small talk works.

      4. Rex Libris*

        The next natural sentence after “I got a new dog” is pretty much “His/Her name is…” at which point people generally bring up the pictures on their phone. As a manager, I’m absolutely not going to try and dictate which pets and/or family members can or cannot be referred to by name, unless maybe the name is Voldemort. Talk about overreach. What I would do is address any actual negative behavior on the part of either employee that was impacting their working relationship or the work environment.

        1. Hell in a Handbasket*

          I do like the thought of the dog-owning co-worker going around saying things like “He Who Must Not Be Named really loves belly rubs!”, “Rough morning, He Who Must Not Be Named got sprayed by a skunk today” etc.

        2. Observer*

          What I would do is address any actual negative behavior on the part of either employee that was impacting their working relationship or the work environment.

          Exactly!

          Assuming that there is actually anything to address. I went back to the letter. And the LW posted a few comments. What was interesting is that they really thought it was a Big Deal. But nothing they said showed any trace of actual misbehavior.

      5. Tippy*

        I had a coworker name her dog the same name I have (which is very unusual) and I never once have even thought to be upset/offended. I don’t think she named her after me, I think she just liked the name and knew she’d probably never encounter another dog (or person) with it so it be easy.

        Honestly I don’t really see how it’s an insult even if it was on purpose. I assume that Jane loves her new puppy, is super excited and probably thinks it’s the cutest thing ever.

        1. Oolie*

          Yeah, this would be such a non-issue in my world. A friend of mine once had a dog named Bailey. When her brother started dating a girl named Bailey, the family referred to them, respectively, as “Canine Bailey” and “Human Bailey.” Human Bailey, being a lovely person with a great sense of humor, found it hilarious and charming, and Canine Bailey, being a dog, didn’t care as long as he got attention. Human Bailey stayed Human Bailey (or sometimes HB) long after Canine Bailey crossed the rainbow bridge.

          1. Rara Avis*

            My aunt’s dog and granddaughter are both named Abby. The dog, who came first, is now Abby-dog to avoid confusion.

          2. Reality.Bites*

            There was an episode of Doctor Who where a science team had “Proper Dave” and “Other Dave” among its members.

        2. Rayray*

          I agree. It’s really unhinged for someone to hate a coworker and name their dog after them to spite them. It truly makes no sense. People can name their dogs what they want to. People need to be less self-absorbed and realize that not everything is about them.

        3. Nah*

          To be perfectly honest, as a kid (we’re talking 10-11) I accidentally named a stuffed animal after my newborn cousin, completely accidentally. My assumption was it just brought the name to my brain’s attention, so it was a possibility that just kinda floated to the surface when I was staring intently at this lil puppy to see what fit. I couldn’t understand why my family was so upset until I got chastised for it. I’m on the side of assuming innocent intent unless proven otherwise, honestly. If friction comes up between them, address that specifically, but going after the name itself is not the way to go imo.

      6. Rainy*

        Uh…if you are the kind of office that shares news about pets, of course you share the names of your pets and the names of any new ones.

        We lost our older cat over Christmas and ended up getting a new kitten pretty quickly afterward because our younger cat was absolutely devastated, and of course I have told my coworkers what the kitten’s name is! I sort of assume you aren’t a pet person so maybe you don’t understand that pets are individuals with names and personalities, but for those of us who love our pets, we do in fact call them by name.

        If the LW thinks naming the puppy Achilles may have been a slam, of course they know the situation best, but your assertion that it’s “designed to be some sort of insult” and the dog was “named that way maliciously” is purest speculation from you. Dogs have names. Many people name their dogs people names (Sophie, Maggie, Max, Rex are all popular dog names but I’ve also known dogs named Bob, Dexter, Otis, Frankie, among others). If I’m honest, a coworker naming their baby something I was planning to name a dog isn’t going to dissuade me, because how often are the baby and the dog gonna be in the same room? Is it never? It’s probably never.

        1. Katydid*

          This is off topic, but sending you hugs! We lost our older cat at Thanksgiving time and it was just awful. We did end up getting a new kitten pretty quickly because our other cat Willow was pretty despondent and attention seeking. Willow and Autumn are getting along great for the most part now! Just wanted to send some commiseration.

          1. Rainy*

            Thank you so much. I’m so sorry about your kitty as well. We were absolutely destroyed, and our younger cat, who’s four, was going around checking all of her big sister’s favorite spots and then just sitting in one of them looking super sad and we couldn’t take it. I think we could have handled it if it was just us who were sad but our younger cat being sad too was too much. Luckily we found a kitten pretty quickly who looked nothing like our older cat and we drove to a nearby town, met a lady in a park, and got baby Ivan. He and Pram are already cuddling and grooming and he’s driving her crazy with constant kitten playing, so it’s been really good for her–and for Ivan! The foster lady said that she was pretty worried about finding them homes when she took him and his brothers to foster because apparently black tuxedo cats aren’t in vogue right now but we think he’s perfect.

            Thank you so much–it’s so hard to lose them. Big hugs to you too.

            1. LifebeforeCorona*

              I loved my black tuxedo Max and was very sad when he passed, Tuxedos are very smart and empathetic.

      7. Rainy*

        Also, sorry to be pedantic, but the word you want here is “tack,” not “tact.” When you “take a tack,” it’s actually from sailing lingo, so you are trying a new approach or method, like a sailboat tacking against the wind, which requires sailing back and forth to make that forward progress.

        “Tact” of course means “discretion” or “sensitivity” and while you can approach something *with* tact, you wouldn’t call an approach *a* tact.

      8. AlsoADHD*

        Half of my Slack is filled with pet chat but most of my team and department are dog people. Some have kids and share that stuff too but dogs are more universally shared (and some cats) than kids even! Asking why would you share a puppy’s name is weird to me, if you’d share a kid’s name. That’s definitely the kind of shares I’ve seen in team meetings and chats.

      9. Meep*

        I personally want to know if this is ACTUALLY the dog’s name or if she said it was to annoy her coworker. If it is the dog’s name registered with the county, I would leave it alone. If not, she probably just really liked the name.

      10. Meep*

        “But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work?”

        Some of us have fun works where we can post our pets in a channel to show off?

      11. windsofwinter*

        …..because some people do chat about their lives and exchange pleasantries at work? Literally one of my first conversations with my boss was about my dog. The first thing she asked was my dog’s name.

        Now, I think I’m actually a little weird in that I don’t refer to my husband or pet by name at work, even after working with folks a long time. It’s always “my husband” or “my dog” instead of their names. But this is actually pretty unusual in my neck of the woods. I know my boss’s husband’s name, I know her daughter’s name, I know her dog’s name. She solely refers to them all by name. This is common with all of my team, and indeed it’s common in most places I’ve worked.

        But I’m so confused by the comments here and in the original post about why anyone would ever dare utter their dog’s name on the apparently hallowed grounds of the workplace. Some people ask questions because they care about their coworker’s lives. Not everyone does, and that’s okay, but it’s not some bizarre outlier.

      12. huh?*

        Quick – what are five – 15! – other reasons someone announces their puppy’s name in a meeting?

        To say “you don’t get to talk about your dog name at work” is so beyond the perceived offense that I hope you don’t manage other humans.

      13. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I’ve learned from this blog that I’m fairly far toward the “low need for social interaction at work” end of things – I’ve always been fairly typical on my teams, but I’m in tech, so a few minutes of chatting now and then and a “how was your weekend” is typical, rather than a half-hour or more daily of socialization, or making sure to individually greet everyone every day – and I think that announcing the name of a pet is the most normal thing in the world, and that “You can’t mention your pet’s name at work” is deeply weird. People share pictures of pets, or talk about them, and “oh it’s so cute what’s its name” is such a normal human followup that it would seem really, really weird to me not to be able to respond do that. (I’m fully remote, but my co-workers in other cities know my cat’s names because they will make appearances on Zoom. Not telling them is way weirder than telling them, and I have in fact had co-workers who shared names with my pets.)

        1. Spooz*

          Yeah, I mean, what’s the conversation there?
          “How was your weekend?”
          “I got a new dog!”
          “Cute what’s it’s name?”
          “I’m not allowed to tell you.”
          “…why?”
          “You’ll have to ask LW.”

          I think the LW should consider how she would then respond to that enquiry, and whether she wants to start stirring this pot.

      14. LL*

        She probably announced that she got a new dog and someone asked what it’s name was. I do that all the time. I have to know what to say when I ask for dog/cat pictures!

      15. Sparrow*

        Announcing the name of a new puppy at work is so, so common in so many work cultures. My workplace has an entire “pets” channel in our work chat for people to share cute photos of their animals, and pretty much every single time one of my coworkers has gotten a new pet, they’ve either mentioned it in a meeting and/or sent pictures in the pets channel (of course, mentioning it in the meeting generally prompts requests for photos sent ASAP).

        We don’t have any way to know that the dog was named maliciously, and I honestly think it’s strange to assume it was. Naming a dog maliciously is just such a weird thing to do that I’m genuinely confused why anyone would view that as the obvious truth of this situation.

        And honestly, if my manager came up to me and said “You don’t get to talk about your dog by name at work; we all know you named your dog maliciously”, that would be such a shockingly red flag for me that I would be working on my exit ASAP, while shouting to everyone I knew about how strangely toxic that workplace was.

      16. Parakeet*

        At my work there’s a pets channel on Slack and people refer to their pets by name all the time when posting photos. There would be nothing weird about someone announcing their new puppy by name and posting pics.

      17. ubotie*

        “But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work?”

        Because generally speaking, that’s a normal thing? Like, if it comes up in general conversation that you have a new puppy or are getting a new puppy (and in a very small office/team of 10 people, something like that would probably come up), then it’s pretty natural to segue into what are you naming it, why did you pick that name, I had a dog/cat/komodo dragon named X, etc.

        So I have to agree with Alison that the real focus should be on these two employees’ overall animosity and not getting into the weeds about who has dibs on what name. Even if the baby has a “weird” name, the parents are probably going to run into someone else who picked that name for their pet at some point. Or they or the kid will meet someone who has an arch nemesis with that same name.

        I’ve known people who name their kids Michael or Janet and then get weirdly bent out of shape that a neighbor has a dog named Michael or Janet (do you think the dog cares????).

      18. Happy*

        “How was your weekend?”
        “Good! We got a puppy!”
        “Oh, what’s its name?”

        Or if you’re remote, then you can share the cuteness on Zoom in a casual team meeting, “Here’s my new dog, Santa’s Little Helper!”

        It is not at all odd to share the name of your new puppy at work. I know the names of most of my coworkers pets, and have at many jobs.

    2. metadata minion*

      “I got a new puppy; we’ve named him Buttons!” seems like totally normal workplace chitchat to me. In this case the specific name makes everything weird, but I don’t think the employee has to be going out of her way to share it. I know the names of most of my coworkers’ pets.

      1. Goldfeesh*

        Ugh, my name is Buttons. That was my great-grandfather’s last name which was given to me as a first name to honor him. How dare you name your dog Buttons!

    3. Rayray*

      I agree. Your boss is your boss at work, not your parent who gets to scold you for behavior you deem “bad”.

  3. Turingtested*

    I worked at organization where a member of management had a baby and gave him a very unusual name. Shortly afterwards, a coworker came out about their transition at work. They were really open about picking the same name as the new baby because they fell in love with it.

    It was weird but not harmful. The employee was sincere in really liking the name and feeling it was the best fit.

    I know pets and people aren’t exactly the same but I feel nothing would’ve been gained except hurt feelings if it had been addressed.

    like Allison said, this wasn’t about needling anyone.

    1. duinath*

      Plus Achilles, while not a common name, is very well known.

      Who’s to say this co-worker didn’t already have an interest in greek mythology and history? Plenty of people do.

      1. Two Siberian Huskies*

        One of my dogs has two best dog friends (also big huskies) named Zeus and Apollo. Yes, the same as the Dobermans from Magnum PI.

        1. RC*

          I know two people who named their (different) human babies Ulysses.

          Whenever I see an Artemis in real life my brain immediately goes to Always Sunny (character and actress), which is awkward when it’s a child, but I guess there are worse associations…?

          1. Nah*

            I have a feeling there might be a minor rise in Odyssey-related names in the near future considering how Epic (the musical) is surging in popularity, at least in my circle of the world. Penelope and Athena at minimum.
            (side note, highly recommend, extremely catchy and it’s only like two hours long after wrapping up in December)

      2. Reality.Bites*

        Achilles isn’t the actual name. OP just said the name was similarly uncommon, not that it was necessarily connected to Greek mythology.

    2. Lake (they/them)*

      lol what finally pushed me to commit to using my new name was an acquittance of mine picked a new name- my old name.

  5. Person from the Resume*

    “A belligerent, profanity-laden outburst during a board meeting” is a good enough reason to fire someone. Your company doesn’t need to give second chances or document a history of bad behavior for this to be a firing offense.

    Unless you think that’s an exaggeration, no need for severance.

    1. Artemesia*

      Severance saves later problems. I’d offer the same severance anyone else would get, with a signed agreement as Alison noted. It will cost less in the long run to err on the side of kindness and low drama.

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Yeah, my first reaction was “hell no!” because it feels like rewarding someone’s bad behaviour. But from a practicality standpoint, it’s not about whether buddy deserves severance or not. It’s a business decision designed to avoid spending more on lawyers than the severance would be and months or years of dealing with this guy.

        1. ferrina*

          My first reaction to the letter was: “Wait, I can swear at board members and still get severance?! Why didn’t I know this earlier!”

          But yeah, ultimately severance is either:
          1) an appreciation of their work (and an incentive for other employees to do their exit similar to how this person did)
          2) contractually obligated, or
          3) a way to avoid a bigger problem

          We know it’s not 1 or 2 (and the manager’s claim of “good will” is silly), but it might be a case of 3. Lawyer would need to advise.

          1. Reality.Bites*

            In Canada, there’s a legal standard for severance, as well as an informal “judicial standard. The legal standard is one week per year, the judicial is one month per year.

            Both times in my life I was laid off I was offered (and took) one month short of judicial – five months of full salary and benefits instead of six. My cousin, an HR person for a different large company, explained that companies will generally offer just enough to ensure you don’t consider going to court.

    2. CityMouse*

      Yes, the reality is anyone can file a lawsuit, that doesn’t mean it will go anywhere. Whether this employee can find an attorney to file the lawsuit is another question as well.

      There’s some extent that you do just make a call that, were this to go to legal action, it’s just cheaper to pay someone to go away than it is to get a lawyer to defend the suit. But to some extent you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

      1. Melicious*

        Yeah, lawsuits that have almost no chance of winning are still an expensive, time consuming pain in the rear end to defend against. If he’s willing to drop it in exchange for severance, that’s in the company’s best interest.

        1. CityMouse*

          I don’t think we can actually say that definitively and depends on a few factors. That’s a question for the company’s lawyer.

          1. Happy meal with extra happy*

            I handle BS lawsuits on a daily basis, and even if we “win”, we’re still often spending at least $10,000-$20,000 in attorney fees at minimum, and spending more than that is not uncommon. I’m often having the conversation of “do you want to be right or do you want to be cost-effective?” (And depending on the situation, the answer could change.)

            1. CityMouse*

              Whereas when I interned for a large organization with an OGC we wouldn’t pay out as much and one of my job was to do the assessment on claims and decide if we’d grant the initial claims.

            2. wilma flintstone*

              But it’s not the lw’s money, right? If the company has the budget for it (or is willing to make room in it), I’d be inclined to write the check and wash my hands.

              1. Reality.Bites*

                Not only not their money, not their decision to make at all. This is not an employee evaluation. It’s the company making spending decisions based on the financial impact, and nothing else. Unless that’s part of their job description, it’s not their concern anymore.

        2. Selina Luna*

          Isn’t that literally one of the reasons SLAPP suits exist? They know they won’t win if it’s fully fought out, but they’re willing to bet that someone will run out of money and just fold?

    3. Statler von Waldorf*

      In America it might be, but in Canada it’s almost certainly not enough to legally fire someone for cause, which means either paying severance or giving them notice.

        1. kalli*

          It’s essentially paying notice in lieu. ‘You have a month to get out, btw, you’re not allowed on the premises during that time. Bye!’

    4. Reluctant Mezzo*

      Severance might be a good idea just to get him to go away (like ‘key money’ during an eviction).

  6. Two Siberian Huskies*

    The name of an employee’s puppy is none of the company’s business.

    And what does the manager propose to do about it, force the employee to rename the puppy?

    The employee with the new baby needs to get over it. The name “Achilles” is not her personal intellectual property.

    1. Maleficent*

      harsh take. also, encouraging someone “to get over it” won’t solve the larger problem, that Parent-of-Achilles and Owner-of-Achilles don’t get along, and that Owner-of-Achilles is exhibiting judgement that is almost guaranteed to irritate Parent-of-Achilles. Owner-of-Achilles has poor judgement, AT BEST. At worst, it’s intentional.

      1. Dinwar*

        Naming dogs to annoy people is a tradition about as old as domesticated dogs. I can’t say “as old” because it predates written records, but I recall a few examples from Rome and Greece.

        They BOTH need to get over it. They’re allowed to snipe at each other this way, it’s perfectly normal human behavior; as a manager your job is to make sure they work together. You don’t have to like the people you work with, you just have to be professional. And what you name your child or your dog is not within the realm of behavior where “professional” is applicable.

        1. Maleficent*

          “They’re allowed to snipe at each other this way, it’s perfectly normal human behavior” – it’s not illegal to snipe, but good managers will recognize that sniping is, in itself, unprofessional. The fact that it’s related to dog or a child isn’t really relevant, it’s the unprofessional immature attitude that’s the problem.

          1. Dinwar*

            Managers aren’t parents. Telling people what to name their dogs is way, WAY beyond the power any manager should have over adults, even if the person names their dog something stupid.

            The issue is how they act at work. Sure, there’s some friction. That’s part of bringing together a group of people (Forming/Storming/Norming/Performing). If it’s not impacting the work, the manager has no standing to jump in–again, we ARE NOT parents to our reports.

            I’m emphasizing this because there’s an increased tendency to view managers as parents. The rise of social media meant that managers and companies had a lot more insight into the lives of their employees, and that has resulted in attempts at greater control. This is something we as employees need to push back on.

            1. ferrina*

              Telling people what to name their dogs is way, WAY beyond the power any manager should have over adults, even if the person names their dog something stupid.
              This.

              And someone who chooses a dog name just to irritate their coworker is someone that is guaranteed to have issues elsewhere. Focus on those issues.
              (and if they just liked the name, adults are able to move on)

              1. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow*

                Exactly! If somebody is this petty there will be plenty to call them on that is well within the manager’s scope.

        2. Two Siberian Huskies*

          This is not a “both sides” issue. This is an issue where an entitled parent is making unreasonable demands. She needs to be told firmly that she doesn’t have a monopoly on the name “Achilles” and that she needs to stop the drama.

          1. Bunch Harmon*

            There’s nothing in the letter to indicate that the parent of the baby has said anything about the name or caused any drama.

          2. Observer*

            This is an issue where an entitled parent is making unreasonable demands.

            That’s actually the craziest thing to me. There is nothing in the email indicating that the actual parent is making any demands. It seems to me to be something that the LW making a bigger deal about than anyone else.

      2. Two Siberian Huskies*

        If parent-of-Achilles is irritated at the use of the name, that’s on her, not the dog owner.

        We need to get over the idea that “mah feeelings” are always reasonable. In this case, the irritation is not.

        1. Well actually*

          First of all, there is no indication in the post that parent of Achilles has any reaction that differed from the rest of the group. Second, irritation is a completely reasonable reaction to this, it’s only a problem if parent of Achilles chooses to express that irritation in an unprofessional manner.

          1. Bunch Harmon*

            Agreed. Irritation is completely reasonable when the other person’s intent is to irritate. It’s reasonable to assume that intent, but even if it wasn’t intended, the optics aren’t in the dog owner’s favor.

            1. ferrina*

              Yeah, irritation is reasonable. Drama would be unreasonable, but we have no evidence that there was any follow-up drama.

              Best outward response is a shrug, then let the dog-owner be stuck with a dog that constantly reminds them of their nemesis. That’s self-enforcing karma.

              1. Dinwar*

                I’ve seen folks name their dogs after someone who annoyed them in the past. It doesn’t take long for the connection to evaporate in their minds. It’s just Bob, you know? That he shares the name with Bob in Accounting is less relevant than the fact that he ate a significant chunk of your couch. Let’s face it, there are almost no names you could pick that aren’t shared by a few thousand people and pets; humans have adapted to having limited names available by learning to differentiate them in our minds.

          2. CatDude*

            I don’t think it’s at all reasonable to be irritated by how someone names their dog. It’s rather childish, in fact.

      3. Happy*

        It’s not really a harsh take, though! It seems wild to me than a manager is even considering getting involved in dog-naming.

  7. Bitte Meddler*

    I once took a job where, on the first day, I was told I needed to sign an agreement stating that if I left the company for any reason within a year, I had to pay them back the $1500 it cost to train me.

    1. This was in 1990 so $1500 was a LOT of money to someone early in their career.

    2. The training was provided by my fellow team members, not a professional trainer.

    I told them that I’d need to run it by my family’s lawyer because he’d drilled it into me since I was small to always have a lawyer review anything before I signed. (We did not, in fact, have a family lawyer; I made the whole thing up).

    Management never brought it up again.

    The place was a shit show, though, and I left after a few months. My co-workers were all, “OMG, how are you going to pay back the $1500??” and I was happy to tell them that I’d never actually signed the agreement.

    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I had an employer try the same thing, for $12M (12,000), at my annual review. I declined and told them to replace me–it took them 6 months to find another victim for my role.

      That nonsense should be illegal.

    2. Reality.Bites*

      Even if you had signed it, unless you earned enough for them to be able to withhold it from your final pay, how on earth could they enforce it? Yes, they could send invoices, take it to small claims, maybe even a collection agency, but in the end they’d spend more than they’d ever recoup, if they recouped anything at all.

  8. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    All I can think of is Sean Connery saying to Harrison Ford: “We named the dog Indiana!”

    1. Carol the happy*

      “I liked that dog!”
      Thanks for that one. A friend got a puppy that chewed every sock he could find; he’d even wrestle them from feet and drag them under the couch.
      They named him Dobby.

    2. Happy meal with extra happy*

      Lol, I think of “we named the monkey Jack” from Pirates of the Caribbean.

  9. Selina Luna*

    I gave my baby a somewhat unusual name. It’s easy to pronounce and to spell, but it’s old-fashioned and very uncommon. If the dog owner meant it unkindly, then that sucks (and it sounds like she might have meant it unkindly). But I would not be terribly surprised to hear that someone thought that my kid’s name was a good name for a dog. Then again, we named our dogs Morpheus and Phantom (I’m way less worried about someone stealing their identity, to be honest), which I would be very surprised to hear as people-names.

    2. Spooz*

      Can I just congratulate on your baby name criteria? Two of our four kids have names which are easy to pronounce and spell but old fashioned and very unusual, and the other two are the same but just quite unusual.

      People basically said you couldn’t find a name that was uniqueish (we’ve met one other child with my eldest son’s name and that’s it so far) but easy to deal with. (NB: We also specifically wanted English/Anglicised names as we are English.)

      But it’s lovely. We get “What an unusual name!” and “My great uncle was called X!” but never “Sorry, what did you say?” or “Is that pronounced Garblewarblewarble…?”

      1. DJ Abbott*

        I always tell people unusual names are best. The trouble with common names is there will be someone of that name in jail, someone of that name on the federal, or international, or other watchlist, and three or four people have that name in the school, or job, or house of worship, or all of the above. Life is much easier with an unusual name! See the TV show Modern Family, where 11-year-old Manny was always taken aside by customs when they went back to Columbia to see family, to make sure he wasn’t the same Manny Delgado who was on the watchlist.

  10. Book Addict*

    Definitely talk to a lawyer. Somewhere I worked previously they had all the documentation to terminate someone with cause, and the lawyer said “She will fight it, and it will be cheaper in the long run to just give her severance and make her go away.” Talk to a lawyer and heed their advice.

    1. CityMouse*

      It’s very organization dependent. Some places with larger general counsel offices where it is one of their duties to handle these kinds of things may elect to not pay someone to go away because they already are paying an attorney.

      1. Observer*

        It’s very organization dependent

        Right. That’s why the first line is “Talk to a lawyer” not “pay them off.”

    2. learnedthehardway*

      This – there’s “right” and then there is “practical”. In this case, being practical will cost less and be far less of a headache to deal with (and since headaches of the employment law type usually take a lot of time to deal with, that’s effectively a cost savings as well, given that time = money.)

  11. RCB*

    Pay the severance, for the reasons that Alison mentioned but also because I’m willing to bet based on the things you’ve said that your organization is not blameless either. The manager hasn’t been doing their job to manage this employee and properly document their behavior yet you’re all surprised that this situation has erupted like it has. You don’t have clean hands, pay the severance, get the signed release, and be happy you got off this easy.

    1. Helewise*

      I agree. The Board meeting was probably enough to terminate anyway, but get your lawyer on board and pay the severance to make it go away.

  12. Wendy Darling*

    At a previous job and in the lifetime of a previous dog, I found out after being hired that my teammate had the same name as my dog.

    Also that was a job with a dog friendly office so sometimes we brought our dogs in.

    We just called them Dog Billy and Person Billy on the rare occasion it got confusing.

    1. Medium Sized Manager*

      We had this happen except it was the random stuffed animal. So it was Achilles the Giraffe and Achilles the Human. I don’t think Achilles the Human loved it, but it did stick around for awhile since the giraffe arrived a few years before the person.

    2. ferrina*

      A former boss had a child that had the same name as me. She loved to tell stories about her kids. We could always tell who she was talking about (the team was pretty sure that the grown-up ferrina didn’t sent a crayon drawing to the boss).

    3. Raida*

      One of my mates has a boyfriend: Human Steve.

      Because Steve was a dog she would dog-sit before she met the guy, and of course we had to clarify who she went on a walk in the park with!

    4. Reality.Bites*

      “Billy peed on the floor and started humping Rupert” would certainly be an interesting announcement in a meeting.

    5. Quoth the Raven*

      A few years ago, my sister and her partner adopted a Husky named Adam*and they decided not to rename him. This is the same name as one of our most playful, funny students (we work at the same school but taught different classes). When Human Adam* asked what the dog’s name was, my sister was completely caught off guard and simply offered Dog Adam’s* nickname.

    1. anotherfan*

      thanks for this. i went back to the letter and didn’t see that she was — just that the LW said everybody was ‘stunned’ — if we’re going to fantasize, why not fantasize that the new mother just shook her head, said to herself ‘my coworker needs to have another interest in life than worrying about me’ and forgot about it.

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      I thought it was odd, as well. It sounds like someone gave a human baby an unusual, though still human, name, and somebody later gave a dog that same unusual human name. Why are they all stunned? This is a thing that actually happens.

      I really do think that there is more to the dynamics in this office, and that LW just picked up on this one thing.

      1. Observer*

        You are probably correct about the LW picking up the one thing. But it’s really not the right thing, even if Dog Owner was trying to be a jerk.

  14. Parenthesis Guy*

    Sounds like the manager wants you to offer severance to cover up his mistake. If you do decide to offer severance, especially if it’s because this manager didn’t do his job documenting, then the manager should be put on a PIP.

  15. Richard Hershberger*

    My brother-in-law adopted a rescue dog that already had the same name as my daughter. My daughter was delighted. I don’t know the dog’s opinion. In theory we use my daughter’s full name when visiting, but in practice this is a non-issue. All these name dramas are fully by choice, at least on one side. People and/or pets sharing names is, in the real world, utterly unremarkable and unproblematic.

    2. They named the cat Sophia Olivia*

      My parents-in-law named a cat after my father-in-law’s dearly departed mother – both her first and middle name. They didn’t know that my wife (their daughter) had always planned to give her (our, but this plan predated me) firstborn daughter after the same person. Cue 10 years of my parents in law saying things like “Sophia Oli… oops I mean The Cat brought us a mouse this morning.” They clearly felt bad about it, but it was an honest mistake, and kind of funny. The cat has since passed away, and they did not name the replacement cat after any ancestors as far as I know.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have a blonde ten-year-old pitbull mix named Alannah.
      One of the folks in my husband’s gaming group has a blonde ten-year-old child named Alanna. (I think. I’m not sure of her spelling exactly.)
      Entertainment ensued.

      The folks with the child were expecting their second baby about the time I was getting ready to bring home my younger dog. I told him to let them know her name would be Abigail, if they had preferences either direction. (But their second child was a boy. Also Abigail is grey.)

    4. Fíriel*

      When I was a kid one of my best friends adopted a kitten with my same name. I did not take this personally, even after the cat bit me.

      1. Reality.Bites*

        You should have said to the cat, “Clearly you’re annoyed by this, but I had it first.”

    5. what name did I use last time?*

      One of my cousins named his cat after my deceased mother. I take it as a tribute to his favourite aunt!

  16. raincoaster*

    Ugh, that last one! Been there. I was recruited by a recruiter for a marketing job, and was very clear I did not want a contract or a temp position and did want vacation time and she connected me with an employer. We had three rounds of interviews and I asked (again) “is this a JOB-job?” Was told yes, accepted the job, and was immediately handed a contract stating there was no vacation pay, I had to cover my own insurance, had to be on site with a particular schedule 5 days a week…and it was a contract renewable (or not) in 6 months.

    I should have walked, but I was desperate to pay my rent.

    1. Jill Swinburne*

      I don’t know the law where you are, of course, but where I live if they claimed you were a contractor but specified your work schedule and insisted you be on-site, that would very likely be a-paddlin’.

      I once got a contract role where one of the terms was that if I did any similar work for my own clients I had to pay them 10 percent. Something to do with covering their accounting costs or something. I drew their attention to the fact that I would not agree to that clause, they said all right, and the next day rescinded everything. They also wanted to own me three days a week, which my friend who’d recently been through legal action regarding a contract role confirmed was illegal.

      Dodged a bullet there.

  17. Daisy-dog*

    A former employer gave almost everyone severance. The one exception was someone who wrecked an expensive piece of equipment with a lot of witnesses.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      I still would have given severance to the person who wrecked equipment, just to make the separation agreement binding! In this case, specifically the sections on non-disparagement and release of claims. They wrecked your equipment? Yeah, that’s a potential legal minefield (were they properly trained? was the equipment maintained? etc etc etc). Even if the employee is blatantly to blame, severance is an easy and relatively cheap way to prevent future problems.

      1. boof*

        With the way it was described “with a lot of witnesses” I’m envisioning a tantrum-smashing, which I do kind of hope negates severence – I realize sometimes it’s easier just to pay people to leave you alone but I think if we can avoid rewarding terrible behavior, we should.

        1. Ann O'Nemity*

          It helps to not think of it as rewarding good behavior. Our legal counsel explained it this way – our separation agreement may not hold up in court if it’s completely one sided. We can’t get non-disparagement and release of claims without giving the outgoing employee something. It’s basically like, we will pay you (a pretty small amount of) money to sign this document and give up some of your rights.

  18. ACG*

    When my mom was expecting my youngest brother she said she liked a certain biblical name… nothing super crazy, but not the more common ‘Joshua’ or ‘Sarah’ variety either. Dad hated it and got a new farm dog during her pregnancy and named the new dog that name so my brother got a nice standard bible name we could all spell.

    Also, my kids very deliberately named our cat after my cousin’s child… they’ve never met said cousin or the honored child but they definitely thought it was the best name for our cat. I deliberately don’t mention to my aunt our cat is named after her first grandchild.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      My cousin named her dog Bruce after another relative. Everyone thinks this is hilarious, most of all Bruce.

      Bruce just seems like such an unlikely name for a dog. Still makes me smile to think about it.

      1. Bee*

        Hah, I just named my dog Bruce! He’s a lil pug/chihuahua mix so it both suits him and feels a little ironic, which I like, but he most often gets called Brucie.

        1. ferrina*

          My pets always accumulate nicknames. Usually it’s a derivation of their actual name (Bruce might turn into “RooRoo”), but sometimes it’s things like “Kittypants” (not even close to the actual name) or “Sir Fluffy” (also not even close).

    2. learnedthehardway*

      We had a dog with the female version of the name we gave our oldest son.

      When asked if we had named our son after the dog, it was a genuine NO – the names actually sound pretty different. Plus, it was the only name we could agree on for our son.

      And believe me, I vetoed a lot of names. My husband was quite creative with his attempts to land on a nickname. I narrowly avoided having a “Jim-Bob”, when he quite reasonably proposed that we name our son after relatives.

      1. Reality.Bites*

        The hill I will die on: Name your kids what you actually intend to call them every day.

        Betty White’s parents named her Betty, not Elizabeth. Good for them.

  19. Boss Scaggs*

    I don’t know there’s anything you can really do about it, but if the dog owner named the dog Achilles specifically to bother the parent, well she’s a real heel.

    1. Disappointed Australien*

      I have friends who named their kid Seven. I was distressed when the next one was not called Eight, but I would have been happy with Six.

      This may be why they don’t come to me for advice on naming their kids.

  21. HailRobonia*

    I know “Achilles” was a placeholder but it is actually a fun name for a dog:

    “Achilles, heel!”

      1. Nah*

        I’m imagining this as a dog that winds up in the emergency vet with a sprained ACL. “Heal Achilles’ heel!”

  22. JP*

    When I first met my partner’s name and introduced myself to his family, the first thing out of his brother’s mouth was “that’s our dog’s name!” I can be kind of oblivious and didn’t really think anything of it, but apparently he was embarrassed over the incident for years.

    Without knowing any additional details, I vote for the coworker being oblivious. Naming your puppy after a hated coworker’s baby just seems like a lot.

    1. ferrina*

      Yeah, I don’t get the logic.
      “I hate this coworker so much that I want to be reminded of them every time I say my dog’s name!”

      If that is this person’s logic, I guarantee that there are other issues with this person.

      1. Rainy*

        Which is why I really question it. If it’s a known but somewhat unusual name, it’s entirely possible that the dog’s owner has been thinking “I want to name a dog that!” for years. It’s also possible that the coworker named their baby that and the dog owner thought “Wow, what a great name!” and then got a puppy and was like, “Hey, great name for this pup!”

        I’m trying not to second-guess the LW that they feel it’s a possibility, but I can see a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with hate-naming a puppy. Right before I left my last job they hired someone who was manifestly A Problem (those of us who spotted it immediately were so much more than right), but I didn’t name our new kitten after her!

      2. Arrietty*

        I actively unnamed my cat after a horrible manager. She arrived with the name courtesy of the rescue (the cat, not the manager) so hadn’t had it long enough to grow attached. I gave her a much prettier name that didn’t remind me of a woman who made me cry daily.

    2. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      I suspect it was more “that’s a nice name” rather than “I can stick to to my coworker by naming my dog the same name”.

      Although, there is the probably apocryphal story of the man who lived next door to his ex-wife and named his dog the same name as the ex-wife just so he could stand outside and yell “stop peeing in the flowers, [ex-wife]!” The ex took him to court and the judge said there was nothing wrong with giving a dog any name you wanted.

  23. CityMouse*

    The federal rule is on hold, sadly, but I’d check your local laws on non competes. I used to be on the board of a daycare and the national company wanted their employees to sign non competes that were explicitly unenforceable under state law.

    1. CityMouse*

      (I was on the parent board of a daycare that had a contract with a national company and we spent a lot of time advocating for the staff).

    2. Nilsson Schmilsson*

      In my experience in Missouri, which is normally very employer friendly in court, you cannot prevent someone from earning a living, however, you can prevent someone from sharing customer lists and other proprietary info. Non-competes are ridiculous, but non-solicitations seem to be much more effective and enforceable and can include prohibiting the poaching of employees AND disclosing company secrets.

    3. Freya*

      Yep, non-competes in Australia are only enforceable if they are reasonable and protect legitimate business interests. There’s no hard rules about what counts as ‘reasonable’ other than it is NOT reasonable to impose a restriction that has the effect of stopping an employee (or contractor) from earning a living.

      ‘Legitimate business interests’ are things like protecting confidential information, customer connections, and a stable workforce, so things like Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) and Non-Solicitation Agreements tend to be legal, as long as they’re not overly broad in impact. It can’t be in perpetuity, or cover a geographic area that includes places the employer doesn’t have any connection with, for example, those would be too broad in impact (anything over 12 months in length tends to get scrutinised).

      I’ve seen almost no enforceable non-competes other than NDAs.

  24. Incomplete Marshmallow*

    Not so much on these questions but on Inc: I hope Alison is compensated really well for writing for them because as a reader experience has anyone else noticed how awful they have become inthe past couple of months ?

    I gave them email address at some point to continue reading articles and at the time it was no big deal, but lately they have become super spammy: an onslaught of daily emails that persist even when I went through their preference center and unsubscribed from their gazillion mailing list options. I had literally unsubscribed several times to the specific maling lists they are sending me , though at this point I have given up and set a rule to mark them as spam. For a supposedly legitimate news source I am unimpressed.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      Report the sender to the FTC! The CAN-SPAM Act literally requires businesses to honor unsubscribe requests. (It ticks me off when businesses ignore unsubscribe requests, and I’m not above reporting them.)

  25. Rocket Raccoon*

    I once had a coworker name their baby the same name as my dog. I took it as a compliment :)

  26. H.Regalis*

    If the coworker’s intention was to be insulting by giving their puppy the same name as the other coworker’s baby, then I think they’re not very good at insulting people.

  27. dulcinea47*

    My dad & stepmother adopted a dog with the same (fairly common) name as my cousin. I would have changed it, but they kept it.

  28. Coin_Operated*

    What is it with the naming police? There are so many articles of people getting upset when friends or co-workers choose the same names for their babies, (or get outraged when one is a baby, and the other, a pet). People are allowed to use whatever names they want for their kids and pets. If you’re upset about it, then go to therapy, jeez.

    1. CatDude*

      Seriously, it’s so childish. Big Main Character Syndrome – assuming the world revolves around them, and everything other people do is about them.

      1. London Calling*

        I had to google that. IIRC she ddidn’t have a nickname except the one that my baby cousin gave her. ‘She was named after a horse’ did get a ripple of amusement during her funeral eulogy and we always used it as teens as a clincher to ANY argument – ‘well I might be not doing homework/breaking curfew/trying to get out of school by acting sick/whatever but at least I’M not named after a horse!’

  30. YesPhoebeWould*

    Yes, you ABSOLUTELY want to give a nice severance package to the belligerent manager. If he knows where the bodies are buried? Not having him under a strong NDA and severance agreement will absolutely come back to haunt you. I’ve been at more than one organization where this happened. It isn’t pretty.

    Even if you think the existing employment agreements can keep him from suing you or causing trouble? They won’t. And depending on what his role was? The optics can be TERRIBLE (think “Smith Company former head of safety sues in federal whistleblower lawsuit”). It doesn’t really matter if he has the good or not….your competitors will lead every potential new customer call with that slide.

    Pay him six months to a year’s worth of severance (including benefits), with an ironclad NDA, if he is a director or above. A manager you might be able to get away with 3-4 months.

    Do it when you let him go, because if he goes to a lawyer? It will cost you more.

    This is just the cost of doing business.

  31. Lemons*

    #3 I’m glad this is being talked about, it never occurred to me to ask for that stuff up front! You really should though, my last job had a lot of insane things in the employee agreement I’m stuck with now (like, you can’t work for their clients in any capacity, even doing tasks the employer does not offer as services for FIVE YEARS post-employment. Are you serious?)

    Also ask about the 401K vesting schedule up front, same employer as above has a 6-year vest, the longest they can legally hold out. And yes, that employer did not treat people well on the job either, how did you know?

    1. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

      Ideally you would get lots of details about the 401k. A handful of employers (not good ones) I’ve encountered had 410k plans with bad investment options and then huge wrap fees (as high as 1.35%) from the plan administrator.

      1. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

        Also, regarding handbooks, the last place I worked had a “handbook” that was over 100 documents in a Sharepoint folder. Many of the documents were redundant and a few were contradictory. Some of the provisions were illegal or at least odious (i.e. if they discovered/determined you were job searching, they could unilaterally decide you had voluntarily quit).

  32. spiffikins*

    re: puppy

    Reminded me of my mom – she had a friend who had 3 children, 2 girls and one boy (the youngest). They also had a dog.

    The mom would talk about the kids and dog by name – not necessarily specifying “kid” or “dog” – and the boy’s name was Jimmy, and the dog’s name was Timmy.

    My mom had to keep reminding herself “Timmy has a Tail” in order to keep track of who was who, LOL

    1. Arrietty*

      I had a similar issue when an acquaintance had a dog with a person name. One of them was called Diana and the other was called Laura, but I could never remember whether it was Diana the dog or Laura the Labrador.

    2. Goldfeesh*

      After I went off to college my parents got a dog that was a few years old and already named. Her name was one vowel off from my name. Guess whose name I was called constantly. LOL.

  33. Chirpy*

    I know it’s not the real name, but Achilles is kind of a hilarious name for a dog…

    “Achilles, heel!”

  34. Jill Swinburne*

    I had a casual friend at high school give me a heads-up that her family had just got a puppy and were planning to give it my name, and was that okay with me? I was delighted to say yes, but as I never met the dog or visited her house, I was never sure why she really even needed to inform me. Seeing how offended some people clearly get over names, though, I think I now see!

    I hope my canid namesake had a long and happy life.

  35. semperfiona*

    When I first had a job and a pet-friendly apartment of my own, I adopted two kittens which I named after a couple of characters from my favorite books. When several years later I renamed my*self* after one of those characters, well, we had Cat!MyName and Human!MyName for quite a while after that.

  36. Sparrow*

    LW#1, I know you said that the name you used in the letter (Achilles) is not the actual name of the baby/dog… but I do just want to note that Achilles is an interesting example here, because while it is an unusual name for human babies, it’s actually an extremely common name for dogs (source: a family member of mine works in the pet industry and works with dozens of animals every week). And again, I know that Achilles is not the actual name being used here—but there are a ton of names that are uncommon for humans but super common for dogs (e.g. Titus, Loki, Zeus, Nova), and if this name falls into that category, I think there’s a non-zero chance it could be a genuine coincidence.

    There could also be lots of other reasons why Jane picked that name for her dog that have nothing to do with her coworker’s baby. It could be a name that she’s always felt attached to. It could be the name of a fictional character she loves. It could be the name the breeder gave the puppy, and she loved it too much to change it.

    You mentioned that there’s some contention in the relationship between these two employees, and also that everyone in the meeting was “stunned” when Jane revealed her puppy’s name. It seems like both you and the rest of the team believe Jane did this to intentionally spite her coworker (which, while not impossible, would be a pretty strange way to try to spite someone). I’m not sure if you have a concrete reason for believing that or not, but I think it is worth considering how this will all feel from Jane’s point of view if her puppy’s name didn’t have any malicious intent:

    – Jane gets a new puppy and is excited to share the news with everyone at work
    – When she announces her new puppy and shares his name, instead of being excited for her, everyone is visibly shocked and uncomfortable
    – It soon becomes clear that a coworker who Jane has already had issues with has decided that Jane’s puppy name was an coded jab at her, and everyone else at work—including Jane’s own manager—agrees with this interpretation and is judging Jane for it

    Again, you’re more involved in the situation, so it’s very possible that you have concrete evidence that Jane did this as a strange way to try to provoke her coworker… but unless you do, I do think it’s really worth considering the possibility that Jane genuinely didn’t mean anything by it, and to consider how this probably feels for her if that’s the case. I’ll admit that I may be biased here because the idea of “stealing” a baby name has never made sense to me, but someone maliciously naming their dog in an attempt to deliberately upset their coworker just seems so strange that I really think it’s worth considering other possibilities.

    1. Sparrow*

      And of course, I hit the “submit” button before I realized I typed LW#1 instead of LW#2. Whoopsie.

  37. Suze*

    Puppy OP. I think it’s impossible to tell if this was appropriate without more context. Can you be sure that the puppy was named (and announced) out of spite? How is the Parent taking it? If it was done innocently, I would personally find it cute (and once they grew older I bet my child would want to meet the dog). As the comments here show, many people would not mind, even flattered, but the intention behind it matters. If it was out of spite, there are probably other signs of disagreement between the coworkers that are easier to address than name-stealing.

  38. Agreements*

    I always ask for anything I have to sign up front. I’ve frequently been told there isn’t anything and something like 75% of the time they lied. I’d guess I’ve gotten at least some type of agreement, although not always everything, about half of the time.

    I’ve successfully negotiated ridiculous IP clauses many times. I’ve also encountered a few truly insane things – once I had a potential employer say they paid monthly 2 weeks after the end of the month and had the right to refuse to pay if they claimed the work was unsatisfactory (I ended up walking on that one when they wouldn’t budge).

    One thing to note is that if you’re talking about something like an employee handbook, some companies have a static document while others update it regularly. My current company updates it about every other year. Also, this is the document I’ve least often been given to look at in advance; if there’s a contract or agreement I’m more likely to get those than the more verbose handbook.

    I, too, had one instance where I had a handbook sprung on me about 6 months into a job that was unsignable. They wouldn’t negotiate (I pushed back through my manager, not HR) and I just never signed. It never came up again.

  39. CountryLass*

    #3 regarding the ‘keeping it confidential’ agreement, is that something that would apply to discussions with a spouse? Simply because if I had concerns over how a policy might impact our life on a job I was considering taking, I would want to discuss it with my partner as someone also affected by it. This would help me realise if I was overlooking something, or if this was a deal-breaker, but technically this would be breaking the wording of confidentiality clauses, if not the spirit of one as there would be no intention to make it public.

    1. Coverage Associate*

      Hypothetically, it would depend on the jurisdiction. In some, you could prevent your spouse from testifying about what you told your spouse. In others, your spouse would have the right to refuse to testify about what you told them without the usual penalties that come with disobeying a subpoena or similar, but could testify if subpoenaed or similar if they wanted to.

      In practice, the reason employers keep internal documents like handbooks confidential is usually so competitors don’t get the information, including when employees go to work for a competitor, and for security reasons. It would be unusual for an employer to know or really care whether the information was shared with an employee’s spouse, assuming that the spouse was in a different industry and never passed the information on.

  40. Filicophyta*

    Giving pets, especially dogs, is apparently rather a new thing. Slate had an article a few months ago called “Oh No, Michael Pooped on the Carpet Again”.

  41. Sagegreen*

    Funny this came out on my last day. No severance given even though I worked there twenty one years.

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