should we offer severance to a belligerent, hostile employee?

by Alison Green on January 15, 2025

A reader writes:

I recently had to fire a manager for a belligerent, profanity-laden outburst during a board meeting. He has not been doing his job and has been suspected to be drinking or have been drunk while working (although no proof). To further complicate things, his manager has not done his job by documenting the problems and is now pushing me to provide some sort of severance for good will. However, I feel we have a termination with cause for insubordination. What is your suggestion on whether we need to pay severance in this instance? He is talking to a lawyer regarding a possible hostile workplace or wrongful termination lawsuit.

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • My employee gave her puppy the same unusual name as a coworker’s new baby
  • How can I see what I’ll have to sign as a new employee before I accept an offer?
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{ 139 comments }

{ 139 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Pyjamas*

    Re: puppy, it’s kind of a compliment? But when I was a kid, I gave a puppy my brother’s middle name. The only reason I didn’t choose my brother’s first was bc it was also my dad’s. That would have been confusing for everyone, especially the puppy

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    1. mango chiffon*

      I have been in work conversations where someone’s dog had the same name as a new coworker. The coworker with the dog (and the dog) had been known before the new coworker started, but it did make for confusing and awkward conversations when we were completely remote if people only knew about the coworker instead of the dog. IMO it’s highly dependent on the relationships of the people involved, but it sounds like the LW’s situation is more of a difficult one

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    2. LaminarFlow*

      100000% would be honored if someone decided to name their puppy my name. I don’t care if it’s to honor me, to troll me, has nothing to do with me, etc.

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    3. Another Kristin*

      I can’t imagine spite-naming a pet I was going to have for 12-15 years. That is a LONG time to be reminded of someone you can’t stand. I’d say it was more likely Jane heard the name and loved it, then used it for her puppy.

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    4. Olive*

      I have a human name that’s also a popular dog name and I #$%&*($ hate it and I lowkey hate the people who feel the need to tell me “I had a dog named Olive” (not real name).

      Reply ↓
    5. bishbah*

      When I was six, I wanted to name my new kitten after my younger brother. He suggested a variant of his name instead, and so it was for the next 13 years. Many decades later, I named my next cat after a first cousin. (Heidi, because she hides.)

      I am not creative.

      Reply ↓
    6. Elle*

      Someone I was friends with in college gave her daughter the same name as me (it’s not Elle). I never particularly liked her and we’re not in touch anymore — not even on social since I stopped using Facebook years ago. I’m not offended or flattered, if anything I’m just mildly amused on the rare occasions I remember the daughter exists. Oddly, she anonymously visits my LinkedIn often enough to always show up in my recent visitors, which I only check every few years (usually when I’m looking for a job).

      It’s bizarre that I apparently take up that much of her brain space, but also, who cares?

      Reply ↓
      1. Lions and Bears*

        Someone I was friends with in 4th grade (but haven’t encountered since) had a very unusual name that would be a STRONG contender as a name for a daughter if I ever were to have one.

        I would totally LinkedIn-stalk this lass if I had any clue what her last name was, or where she ended up after 4th grade, but alas. (Like, idk, once every year or two, or something, not *frequently*, I’m not a creep, I just really liked this girl’s name.)

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    7. Elsewhere1010*

      My cat’s is named Elizabeth Charlotte Carlisle. If there are any Elizabeth Charlotte Carlisles already out there, I’m sorry.

      PS Informally she’s known as Kitty Carlisle.

      Reply ↓
  2. CityMouse*

    I don’t know that a boss can really get involved in the puppy thing. It’s not really within work scope and feels likeover extending into personal life. I’d focus on the tangibles at work.

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    1. Person from the Resume*

      But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work? It designed to be some sort of insult to her coworker that she doesn’t like.

      The boss can take the tact, that you can name your dog whatever you want but you don’t get to talk about your dog by name at work. Which is annoying overreach except that we all know the dog was named that way maliciously.

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      1. Two Siberian Huskies*

        1. We “know” no such thing. It’s “ malicious” only if you think the employee has some proprietary right to the name “Achilles.”

        2. Saying “you can never discuss your dog at work” is stupid. Dogs improve morale. How about telling the employee she can’t discuss her baby at work?

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        1. Thursday Night*

          Saying “you can never discuss your dog at work” is stupid

          What if the LW’s coworker decided to give her puppy the same name that H. G. Wells gave his cat? Still OK to discjluss at work?

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              1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

                GAWD I am coming to hate AI summaries!

                I searched on “HP Lovecraft named his cat” and the summary said this:
                >> H.P. Lovecraft was a cat lover and wrote a story called
                >> “The Cats of Ulthar” about cats. However, there’s no information
                >> about a specific cat that Lovecraft named.

                And the excerpt from Wikipedia, immediately below, said this:
                >>The name of the cat, “[redacted]” has often been cited in discussions
                >> of Lovecraft’s racial attitudes, even though the story itself contains
                >> no negative racial depictions. Lovecraft owned a cat by that name
                >> until 1904. The cat had likely been given its name when Lovecraft
                >> was about age nine.

                (And yes, maybe another family member named that cat, such that the AI summary is “technically correct”, which may well be the best kind of correct but it’s still misleading enough that I’ll call it incorrect.)

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            2. Thursday Night*

              We’ve both been caught out! You’re absolutely right that I was thinking of H. P. Lovecraft—I momentarily thought H. G. Wells probably wouldn’t have given his cat such a name but took a chance on people knowing who I meant.

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          2. Rachel*

            1. You’re thinking of H. P. Lovecraft, and
            2. That’s getting into “Some people can’t have sandwiches” territory, isn’t it?

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          3. Missa Brevis*

            I think you mean HP Lovecraft?

            And I also think this is diverging from the original, sensible suggestion that Person from the Resume made – you can talk about ‘my dog’ all you want, because yes, people love to talk about pets and the dog is not itself offensive, but you can’t use the dog’s name in conversation if the name is going to bother your coworkers.

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          4. Flor*

            This is … a massive leap. A puppy and a baby sharing the same uncommon name is nowhere near the same realm as naming a pet after an extremely racist epithet. I cannot even believe I am typing this out.

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            1. Dinwar*

              Yeah, this seems more like an exercise to see how to justify the “No naming dogs at work” thing rather than an exercise in determining what a typical office would have to deal with.

              Most people these days are aware of the fact that you can’t say racist things at work, and this includes animal names. No need to make a special rule for this, and no need to forbid using dog names.

              Achiles is not offensive. I know folks in the Revivalist Hellenistic tradition–meaning they worship the Greek gods, following the ancient traditions as best they can–who give their dogs names like that. Believe me, we have a dog named Artemis and they’d have let us know! Comparing names of this sort to racist names is in itself offensive, and I honestly struggle to see how one can do so in good faith.

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            2. Thursday Night*

              No one would object to someone discussing a dog named Rex in the workplace. Most people would, however, object to someone discussing a pet with a racially charged name. I’m not trying to draw a direct equivalence between the two examples; I’m trying to elicit whether Two Siberian Huskies accepts that there is a line and whether he or she believes that naming a puppy after somebody’s child crosses that line.

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              1. Dinwar*

                We can generally assume that creating a hostile workplace is a pretty hard line. The issue isn’t the dog’s name, it’s the “creating a hostile workplace” thing. Same reason it would be reasonable to object to a dog’s name if that name was foul language–it’s not saying the dog’s name, it’s the offensive nature of the language. (This would have come up with a relative’s dog, he had an…interesting…sense of humor.)

                This is another reason I do not find this a good-faith argument: You are implying that those of us who think we should be use our dog’s names at work somehow believe that this exempts us from normal rules at workplaces. I’ve never met anyone who thought that–even that relative of mine was smart enough, in the 1980s, to be careful who he told his dog’s name to! The notion is moronic, and the implied accusation you are quite clearly making is entirely unjust.

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                1. Thursday Night*

                  Your first paragraph is an entirely reasonable response; the second is incredibly insulting (“moronic”?) and demonstrates the same lack of good faith you accuse me of. Again, I’m not making an argument (other than that there is a line and that some names clearly cross it). All I’m doing seeking clarification on whether Two Siberian Huskies believes it’s within the bounds of professional conduct to name a dog after a coworker’s newborn child.

            3. UKDancer*

              Yes, I mean if you watch the original version of the Dam Busters film you would realise that Guy Gibson’s dog had a name which is offensive and racist (so much so that it’s usually changed in TV broadcasts now) and which was probably not a great name to use in the 1940s either. I would take a very dim view of anyone now calling their dog that name because you’d have to be completely ignorant or willingly offensive to use it now.

              I think that’s completely different from a dog having the same name as a colleague in the office. I mean if the name isn’t offensive in itself then it shouldn’t a problem in my view.

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        3. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          It’s malicious if it was done with malice. Things don’t have to meet some sort of objective standard of reasonableness not to be malicious.

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      2. Dinwar*

        “But also why do you announce the name of your new puppy at work?”

        There can be good reasons.

        When we got our first dog, before we had kids, I’d wrestle and play with him, and his little puppy teeth would do what predatory teeth generally do to flesh–my arms looked like someone took a weedwhacker to them. So, to avoid questions, I wore long sleeved shirt. In August. In the South. I did not avoid questions. And it’s sort of hard to talk about your dog without naming the dog, English isn’t built to naturally handle such sentence structures on a regular basis. So yeah, they all knew the dog’s name–and “Where did you get that name?” is a natural enough question, so they knew he had my great-grandfather’s name.

        Secondly, people get excited about puppies. It’s natural and normal for people to want to talk about them. That doesn’t stop just because someone else happened to use the name or have other positive things in their life they are excited about. If my boss told me to stop talking about my dog by name because it was similar to someone else’s I–and my coworkers–would laugh at them! Not joking here, we’ve had such mutinies in the past. And that is a completely appropriate reaction to such an egregious over-reach of authority. When your rules are “Don’t act like a normal human being” your rules are bad and you should feel bad. (That’s a generic “you” here, not directed a you in particular.)

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        1. mango chiffon*

          Is it really hard to talk about a dog without naming it? I often talk to people at work about “my brother” or “my mom” or “my parents” and do just fine. Is it so much different for “my dog”?

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          1. Dinwar*

            It’s awkward enough that expecting people to do so regularly isn’t reasonable. Nor is using the name of the animal unreasonable. That you choose to do it isn’t really relevant; it’s not the way most people speak in normal conversations, and you can’t police people’s conversations to that degree.

            And what do you do when someone inevitably asks “What’s his name?” It’s a perfectly normal question–I asked it twice on Monday, when a guy was showing me photos of his dogs.

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        2. Artemesia*

          yeah almost certainly this was an attempt to needle the new parent. But there isn’t much to be done. I’d probably talk with the new parents and just say ‘look I know her making a fuss about naming her puppy the same as little Achilles is annoying, but there is nothing we can do about it, so I think the best approach is to gray rock this. Be indifferent. People who try to get a rise really suffer when others just don’t care.’

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          1. Rainy*

            How, though? It’s a name. Pets have names and in my experience it is not terribly usual to name a puppy *at* someone. It *is* common to have a name in mind for a while that you think would be nice for a pet and to name that pet even if you later meet a person or another pet with that name, it *is* common to hear a name and think “gosh, what a great name.”

            It’s also pretty common to get a puppy already named and depending on age, not go through the hassle of changing it. I just got a kitten that was being fostered, and I asked if he had a name, not that I was necessarily going to use it, and the fosterer said “well, his litter were Js so we’ve been calling him (name) but we also try really hard not to get them used to a name while they’re with us.” Which is good because I named him something else before he’d been with us 24 hours!

            Also worth noting that if puppy owner has been wanting to name a dog Achilles for the last decade and has finally had the chance, the coworker and manager STFUing about it is exactly what she would want, because pup and baby’s name is an unfortunate coincidence. She might not be trying to get a rise out of anyone, she might just be living her best life with a dog with an awesome name.

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        3. Any mouse*

          regarding the puppy name

          when my brother was born he went several days without a name. one of the issues was the preferred name was also the name of a relatives pet and also the name of a other close relative’s significant other.

          finally my brother got his name, the pet eventually died and the relationship ended so the only reason anyone remembers the dog and the ex is this story

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          1. Bast*

            Ah yes, family name drama. We had some (before I was born, but I have heard the tale multiple times) where my aunt and a cousin were both considering the same name. They were due within months of each other. The name was a Top 10 name for the time period, (think Jennifer or Ashley) and yet, both think they owned the name. Neither would give. They both had different middle name ideas, but could not give up the idea that the other was stealing “their” name. It caused a huge family feud where both ended up naming their daughter the same thing and refusing to speak to each other for years as a result of the “theft.” Everyone involved is super embarrassed when this story comes up, 40 ish years later.

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            1. Rainy*

              One of my ex-gfs had the same thing happen with her name, in the ’70s–she and a cousin’s kid were born a few months apart, cousin’s kid was born first and got the name that ex-gf’s mom had picked out, ex-gf’s mom named her that anyway (different spelling but not a Tragedeigh, just a simplified phonetic spelling for ex-gf). The weirdest part is that it wasn’t a hyper-popular name–I just checked and it peaked in popularity some years after ex-gf and her cousin were born and still never broke the top 100 according to the SSA lists, so pretty weird that both ex-gf’s mom and her cousin were set on it. I don’t think anyone stopped talking to anyone but things were tense for a few years.

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      3. Wendy Darling*

        When I got a new puppy my co-workers asked me what his name was. I had a TON of conversations that went

        “What did you do this weekend?”
        “We brought our new puppy home, he’s so cute but so tiring!”
        “Oh my gosh what’s his name do you have pictures???”

        He also occasionally appears in the background of Zoom meetings when I work from home, and people sometimes ask about him including what his name is.

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        3. UKDancer*

          Yes I mean I’m not massively a dog person but if someone says they’ve got a new dog, I’m going to ask the name and breed as a way of expressing interest. Then probably ask for a picture / the dog to be lifted up to be visible on zoom so I can say how cute he or she is depending on whether it’s a zoom meeting or an in person chat.

          I’m not particularly interested in the name but it’s a safe thing to ask to show interest.

          I mean I had a chat with a colleague today who was going for a horse riding lesson after work and the first thing I asked was what the horse was called. It’s the way small talk works.

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      4. Rex Libris*

        The next natural sentence after “I got a new dog” is pretty much “His/Her name is…” at which point people generally bring up the pictures on their phone. As a manager, I’m absolutely not going to try and dictate which pets and/or family members can or cannot be referred to by name, unless maybe the name is Voldemort. Talk about overreach. What I would do is address any actual negative behavior on the part of either employee that was impacting their working relationship or the work environment.

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      5. Tippy*

        I had a coworker name her dog the same name I have (which is very unusual) and I never once have even thought to be upset/offended. I don’t think she named her after me, I think she just liked the name and knew she’d probably never encounter another dog (or person) with it so it be easy.

        Honestly I don’t really see how it’s an insult even if it was on purpose. I assume that Jane loves her new puppy, is super excited and probably thinks it’s the cutest thing ever.

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        1. Oolie*

          Yeah, this would be such a non-issue in my world. A friend of mine once had a dog named Bailey. When her brother started dating a girl named Bailey, the family referred to them, respectively, as “Canine Bailey” and “Human Bailey.” Human Bailey, being a lovely person with a great sense of humor, found it hilarious and charming, and Canine Bailey, being a dog, didn’t care as long as he got attention. Human Bailey stayed Human Bailey (or sometimes HB) long after Canine Bailey crossed the rainbow bridge.

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        2. Rayray*

          I agree. It’s really unhinged for someone to hate a coworker and name their dog after them to spite them. It truly makes no sense. People can name their dogs what they want to. People need to be less self-absorbed and realize that not everything is about them.

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      6. Rainy*

        Uh…if you are the kind of office that shares news about pets, of course you share the names of your pets and the names of any new ones.

        We lost our older cat over Christmas and ended up getting a new kitten pretty quickly afterward because our younger cat was absolutely devastated, and of course I have told my coworkers what the kitten’s name is! I sort of assume you aren’t a pet person so maybe you don’t understand that pets are individuals with names and personalities, but for those of us who love our pets, we do in fact call them by name.

        If the LW thinks naming the puppy Achilles may have been a slam, of course they know the situation best, but your assertion that it’s “designed to be some sort of insult” and the dog was “named that way maliciously” is purest speculation from you. Dogs have names. Many people name their dogs people names (Sophie, Maggie, Max, Rex are all popular dog names but I’ve also known dogs named Bob, Dexter, Otis, Frankie, among others). If I’m honest, a coworker naming their baby something I was planning to name a dog isn’t going to dissuade me, because how often are the baby and the dog gonna be in the same room? Is it never? It’s probably never.

        Reply ↓
        1. Katydid*

          This is off topic, but sending you hugs! We lost our older cat at Thanksgiving time and it was just awful. We did end up getting a new kitten pretty quickly because our other cat Willow was pretty despondent and attention seeking. Willow and Autumn are getting along great for the most part now! Just wanted to send some commiseration.

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      7. Rainy*

        Also, sorry to be pedantic, but the word you want here is “tack,” not “tact.” When you “take a tack,” it’s actually from sailing lingo, so you are trying a new approach or method, like a sailboat tacking against the wind, which requires sailing back and forth to make that forward progress.

        “Tact” of course means “discretion” or “sensitivity” and while you can approach something *with* tact, you wouldn’t call an approach *a* tact.

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      8. AlsoADHD*

        Half of my Slack is filled with pet chat but most of my team and department are dog people. Some have kids and share that stuff too but dogs are more universally shared (and some cats) than kids even! Asking why would you share a puppy’s name is weird to me, if you’d share a kid’s name. That’s definitely the kind of shares I’ve seen in team meetings and chats.

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    2. metadata minion*

      “I got a new puppy; we’ve named him Buttons!” seems like totally normal workplace chitchat to me. In this case the specific name makes everything weird, but I don’t think the employee has to be going out of her way to share it. I know the names of most of my coworkers’ pets.

      Reply ↓
  3. Turingtested*

    I worked at organization where a member of management had a baby and gave him a very unusual name. Shortly afterwards, a coworker came out about their transition at work. They were really open about picking the same name as the new baby because they fell in love with it.

    It was weird but not harmful. The employee was sincere in really liking the name and feeling it was the best fit.

    I know pets and people aren’t exactly the same but I feel nothing would’ve been gained except hurt feelings if it had been addressed.

    like Allison said, this wasn’t about needling anyone.

    Reply ↓
    1. duinath*

      Plus Achilles, while not a common name, is very well known.

      Who’s to say this co-worker didn’t already have an interest in greek mythology and history? Plenty of people do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Two Siberian Huskies*

        One of my dogs has two best dog friends (also big huskies) named Zeus and Apollo. Yes, the same as the Dobermans from Magnum PI.

        Reply ↓
        1. RC*

          I know two people who named their (different) human babies Ulysses.

          Whenever I see an Artemis in real life my brain immediately goes to Always Sunny (character and actress), which is awkward when it’s a child, but I guess there are worse associations…?

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    2. Lake (they/them)*

      lol what finally pushed me to commit to using my new name was an acquittance of mine picked a new name- my old name.

      Reply ↓
  5. Person from the Resume*

    “A belligerent, profanity-laden outburst during a board meeting” is a good enough reason to fire someone. Your company doesn’t need to give second chances or document a history of bad behavior for this to be a firing offense.

    Unless you think that’s an exaggeration, no need for severance.

    Reply ↓
    1. Artemesia*

      Severance saves later problems. I’d offer the same severance anyone else would get, with a signed agreement as Alison noted. It will cost less in the long run to err on the side of kindness and low drama.

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Yeah, my first reaction was “hell no!” because it feels like rewarding someone’s bad behaviour. But from a practicality standpoint, it’s not about whether buddy deserves severance or not. It’s a business decision designed to avoid spending more on lawyers than the severance would be and months or years of dealing with this guy.

        Reply ↓
        1. ferrina*

          My first reaction to the letter was: “Wait, I can swear at board members and still get severance?! Why didn’t I know this earlier!”

          But yeah, ultimately severance is either:
          1) an appreciation of their work (and an incentive for other employees to do their exit similar to how this person did)
          2) contractually obligated, or
          3) a way to avoid a bigger problem

          We know it’s not 1 or 2 (and the manager’s claim of “good will” is silly), but it might be a case of 3. Lawyer would need to advise.

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    2. CityMouse*

      Yes, the reality is anyone can file a lawsuit, that doesn’t mean it will go anywhere. Whether this employee can find an attorney to file the lawsuit is another question as well.

      There’s some extent that you do just make a call that, were this to go to legal action, it’s just cheaper to pay someone to go away than it is to get a lawyer to defend the suit. But to some extent you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

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      1. Melicious*

        Yeah, lawsuits that have almost no chance of winning are still an expensive, time consuming pain in the rear end to defend against. If he’s willing to drop it in exchange for severance, that’s in the company’s best interest.

        Reply ↓
        1. CityMouse*

          I don’t think we can actually say that definitively and depends on a few factors. That’s a question for the company’s lawyer.

          Reply ↓
          1. Happy meal with extra happy*

            I handle BS lawsuits on a daily basis, and even if we “win”, we’re still often spending at least $10,000-$20,000 in attorney fees at minimum, and spending more than that is not uncommon. I’m often having the conversation of “do you want to be right or do you want to be cost-effective?” (And depending on the situation, the answer could change.)

            Reply ↓
            1. CityMouse*

              Whereas when I interned for a large organization with an OGC we wouldn’t pay out as much and one of my job was to do the assessment on claims and decide if we’d grant the initial claims.

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    3. Statler von Waldorf*

      In America it might be, but in Canada it’s almost certainly not enough to legally fire someone for cause, which means either paying severance or giving them notice.

      Reply ↓
  6. Two Siberian Huskies*

    The name of an employee’s puppy is none of the company’s business.

    And what does the manager propose to do about it, force the employee to rename the puppy?

    The employee with the new baby needs to get over it. The name “Achilles” is not her personal intellectual property.

    Reply ↓
    1. Maleficent*

      harsh take. also, encouraging someone “to get over it” won’t solve the larger problem, that Parent-of-Achilles and Owner-of-Achilles don’t get along, and that Owner-of-Achilles is exhibiting judgement that is almost guaranteed to irritate Parent-of-Achilles. Owner-of-Achilles has poor judgement, AT BEST. At worst, it’s intentional.

      Reply ↓
      1. Dinwar*

        Naming dogs to annoy people is a tradition about as old as domesticated dogs. I can’t say “as old” because it predates written records, but I recall a few examples from Rome and Greece.

        They BOTH need to get over it. They’re allowed to snipe at each other this way, it’s perfectly normal human behavior; as a manager your job is to make sure they work together. You don’t have to like the people you work with, you just have to be professional. And what you name your child or your dog is not within the realm of behavior where “professional” is applicable.

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        1. Maleficent*

          “They’re allowed to snipe at each other this way, it’s perfectly normal human behavior” – it’s not illegal to snipe, but good managers will recognize that sniping is, in itself, unprofessional. The fact that it’s related to dog or a child isn’t really relevant, it’s the unprofessional immature attitude that’s the problem.

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          1. Dinwar*

            Managers aren’t parents. Telling people what to name their dogs is way, WAY beyond the power any manager should have over adults, even if the person names their dog something stupid.

            The issue is how they act at work. Sure, there’s some friction. That’s part of bringing together a group of people (Forming/Storming/Norming/Performing). If it’s not impacting the work, the manager has no standing to jump in–again, we ARE NOT parents to our reports.

            I’m emphasizing this because there’s an increased tendency to view managers as parents. The rise of social media meant that managers and companies had a lot more insight into the lives of their employees, and that has resulted in attempts at greater control. This is something we as employees need to push back on.

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            1. ferrina*

              Telling people what to name their dogs is way, WAY beyond the power any manager should have over adults, even if the person names their dog something stupid.
              This.

              And someone who chooses a dog name just to irritate their coworker is someone that is guaranteed to have issues elsewhere. Focus on those issues.
              (and if they just liked the name, adults are able to move on)

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        2. Two Siberian Huskies*

          This is not a “both sides” issue. This is an issue where an entitled parent is making unreasonable demands. She needs to be told firmly that she doesn’t have a monopoly on the name “Achilles” and that she needs to stop the drama.

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          1. Bunch Harmon*

            There’s nothing in the letter to indicate that the parent of the baby has said anything about the name or caused any drama.

            Reply ↓
      2. Two Siberian Huskies*

        If parent-of-Achilles is irritated at the use of the name, that’s on her, not the dog owner.

        We need to get over the idea that “mah feeelings” are always reasonable. In this case, the irritation is not.

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        1. Well actually*

          First of all, there is no indication in the post that parent of Achilles has any reaction that differed from the rest of the group. Second, irritation is a completely reasonable reaction to this, it’s only a problem if parent of Achilles chooses to express that irritation in an unprofessional manner.

          Reply ↓
          1. Bunch Harmon*

            Agreed. Irritation is completely reasonable when the other person’s intent is to irritate. It’s reasonable to assume that intent, but even if it wasn’t intended, the optics aren’t in the dog owner’s favor.

            Reply ↓
            1. ferrina*

              Yeah, irritation is reasonable. Drama would be unreasonable, but we have no evidence that there was any follow-up drama.

              Best outward response is a shrug, then let the dog-owner be stuck with a dog that constantly reminds them of their nemesis. That’s self-enforcing karma.

              Reply ↓
          2. CatDude*

            I don’t think it’s at all reasonable to be irritated by how someone names their dog. It’s rather childish, in fact.

            Reply ↓
  7. Bitte Meddler*

    I once took a job where, on the first day, I was told I needed to sign an agreement stating that if I left the company for any reason within a year, I had to pay them back the $1500 it cost to train me.

    1. This was in 1990 so $1500 was a LOT of money to someone early in their career.

    2. The training was provided by my fellow team members, not a professional trainer.

    I told them that I’d need to run it by my family’s lawyer because he’d drilled it into me since I was small to always have a lawyer review anything before I signed. (We did not, in fact, have a family lawyer; I made the whole thing up).

    Management never brought it up again.

    The place was a shit show, though, and I left after a few months. My co-workers were all, “OMG, how are you going to pay back the $1500??” and I was happy to tell them that I’d never actually signed the agreement.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I had an employer try the same thing, for $12M (12,000), at my annual review. I declined and told them to replace me–it took them 6 months to find another victim for my role.

      That nonsense should be illegal.

      Reply ↓
    1. Carol the happy*

      “I liked that dog!”
      Thanks for that one. A friend got a puppy that chewed every sock he could find; he’d even wrestle them from feet and drag them under the couch.
      They named him Dobby.

      Reply ↓
  9. Selina Luna*

    I gave my baby a somewhat unusual name. It’s easy to pronounce and to spell, but it’s old-fashioned and very uncommon. If the dog owner meant it unkindly, then that sucks (and it sounds like she might have meant it unkindly). But I would not be terribly surprised to hear that someone thought that my kid’s name was a good name for a dog. Then again, we named our dogs Morpheus and Phantom (I’m way less worried about someone stealing their identity, to be honest), which I would be very surprised to hear as people-names.

    Reply ↓
  10. Book Addict*

    Definitely talk to a lawyer. Somewhere I worked previously they had all the documentation to terminate someone with cause, and the lawyer said “She will fight it, and it will be cheaper in the long run to just give her severance and make her go away.” Talk to a lawyer and heed their advice.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      It’s very organization dependent. Some places with larger general counsel offices where it is one of their duties to handle these kinds of things may elect to not pay someone to go away because they already are paying an attorney.

      Reply ↓
  11. RCB*

    Pay the severance, for the reasons that Alison mentioned but also because I’m willing to bet based on the things you’ve said that your organization is not blameless either. The manager hasn’t been doing their job to manage this employee and properly document their behavior yet you’re all surprised that this situation has erupted like it has. You don’t have clean hands, pay the severance, get the signed release, and be happy you got off this easy.

    Reply ↓
    1. Helewise*

      I agree. The Board meeting was probably enough to terminate anyway, but get your lawyer on board and pay the severance to make it go away.

      Reply ↓
  12. Wendy Darling*

    At a previous job and in the lifetime of a previous dog, I found out after being hired that my teammate had the same name as my dog.

    Also that was a job with a dog friendly office so sometimes we brought our dogs in.

    We just called them Dog Billy and Person Billy on the rare occasion it got confusing.

    Reply ↓
    1. Medium Sized Manager*

      We had this happen except it was the random stuffed animal. So it was Achilles the Giraffe and Achilles the Human. I don’t think Achilles the Human loved it, but it did stick around for awhile since the giraffe arrived a few years before the person.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      A former boss had a child that had the same name as me. She loved to tell stories about her kids. We could always tell who she was talking about (the team was pretty sure that the grown-up ferrina didn’t sent a crayon drawing to the boss).

      Reply ↓
    1. anotherfan*

      thanks for this. i went back to the letter and didn’t see that she was — just that the LW said everybody was ‘stunned’ — if we’re going to fantasize, why not fantasize that the new mother just shook her head, said to herself ‘my coworker needs to have another interest in life than worrying about me’ and forgot about it.

      Reply ↓
    2. Peanut Hamper*

      I thought it was odd, as well. It sounds like someone gave a human baby an unusual, though still human, name, and somebody later gave a dog that same unusual human name. Why are they all stunned? This is a thing that actually happens.

      I really do think that there is more to the dynamics in this office, and that LW just picked up on this one thing.

      Reply ↓
  14. Parenthesis Guy*

    Sounds like the manager wants you to offer severance to cover up his mistake. If you do decide to offer severance, especially if it’s because this manager didn’t do his job documenting, then the manager should be put on a PIP.

    Reply ↓
  15. Richard Hershberger*

    My brother-in-law adopted a rescue dog that already had the same name as my daughter. My daughter was delighted. I don’t know the dog’s opinion. In theory we use my daughter’s full name when visiting, but in practice this is a non-issue. All these name dramas are fully by choice, at least on one side. People and/or pets sharing names is, in the real world, utterly unremarkable and unproblematic.

    Reply ↓
    2. They named the cat Sophia Olivia*

      My parents-in-law named a cat after my father-in-law’s dearly departed mother – both her first and middle name. They didn’t know that my wife (their daughter) had always planned to give her (our, but this plan predated me) firstborn daughter after the same person. Cue 10 years of my parents in law saying things like “Sophia Oli… oops I mean The Cat brought us a mouse this morning.” They clearly felt bad about it, but it was an honest mistake, and kind of funny. The cat has since passed away, and they did not name the replacement cat after any ancestors as far as I know.

      Reply ↓
    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have a blonde ten-year-old pitbull mix named Alannah.
      One of the folks in my husband’s gaming group has a blonde ten-year-old child named Alanna. (I think. I’m not sure of her spelling exactly.)
      Entertainment ensued.

      The folks with the child were expecting their second baby about the time I was getting ready to bring home my younger dog. I told him to let them know her name would be Abigail, if they had preferences either direction. (But their second child was a boy. Also Abigail is grey.)

      Reply ↓
    4. Fíriel*

      When I was a kid one of my best friends adopted a kitten with my same name. I did not take this personally, even after the cat bit me.

      Reply ↓
  16. raincoaster*

    Ugh, that last one! Been there. I was recruited by a recruiter for a marketing job, and was very clear I did not want a contract or a temp position and did want vacation time and she connected me with an employer. We had three rounds of interviews and I asked (again) “is this a JOB-job?” Was told yes, accepted the job, and was immediately handed a contract stating there was no vacation pay, I had to cover my own insurance, had to be on site with a particular schedule 5 days a week…and it was a contract renewable (or not) in 6 months.

    I should have walked, but I was desperate to pay my rent.

    Reply ↓
  17. Daisy-dog*

    A former employer gave almost everyone severance. The one exception was someone who wrecked an expensive piece of equipment with a lot of witnesses.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      I still would have given severance to the person who wrecked equipment, just to make the separation agreement binding! In this case, specifically the sections on non-disparagement and release of claims. They wrecked your equipment? Yeah, that’s a potential legal minefield (were they properly trained? was the equipment maintained? etc etc etc). Even if the employee is blatantly to blame, severance is an easy and relatively cheap way to prevent future problems.

      Reply ↓
  18. ACG*

    When my mom was expecting my youngest brother she said she liked a certain biblical name… nothing super crazy, but not the more common ‘Joshua’ or ‘Sarah’ variety either. Dad hated it and got a new farm dog during her pregnancy and named the new dog that name so my brother got a nice standard bible name we could all spell.

    Also, my kids very deliberately named our cat after my cousin’s child… they’ve never met said cousin or the honored child but they definitely thought it was the best name for our cat. I deliberately don’t mention to my aunt our cat is named after her first grandchild.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      My cousin named her dog Bruce after another relative. Everyone thinks this is hilarious, most of all Bruce.

      Bruce just seems like such an unlikely name for a dog. Still makes me smile to think about it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bee*

        Hah, I just named my dog Bruce! He’s a lil pug/chihuahua mix so it both suits him and feels a little ironic, which I like, but he most often gets called Brucie.

        Reply ↓
        1. ferrina*

          My pets always accumulate nicknames. Usually it’s a derivation of their actual name (Bruce might turn into “RooRoo”), but sometimes it’s things like “Kittypants” (not even close to the actual name) or “Sir Fluffy” (also not even close).

          Reply ↓
  19. Boss Scaggs*

    I don’t know there’s anything you can really do about it, but if the dog owner named the dog Achilles specifically to bother the parent, well she’s a real heel.

    Reply ↓
  22. JP*

    When I first met my partner’s name and introduced myself to his family, the first thing out of his brother’s mouth was “that’s our dog’s name!” I can be kind of oblivious and didn’t really think anything of it, but apparently he was embarrassed over the incident for years.

    Without knowing any additional details, I vote for the coworker being oblivious. Naming your puppy after a hated coworker’s baby just seems like a lot.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      Yeah, I don’t get the logic.
      “I hate this coworker so much that I want to be reminded of them every time I say my dog’s name!”

      If that is this person’s logic, I guarantee that there are other issues with this person.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rainy*

        Which is why I really question it. If it’s a known but somewhat unusual name, it’s entirely possible that the dog’s owner has been thinking “I want to name a dog that!” for years. It’s also possible that the coworker named their baby that and the dog owner thought “Wow, what a great name!” and then got a puppy and was like, “Hey, great name for this pup!”

        I’m trying not to second-guess the LW that they feel it’s a possibility, but I can see a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with hate-naming a puppy. Right before I left my last job they hired someone who was manifestly A Problem (those of us who spotted it immediately were so much more than right), but I didn’t name our new kitten after her!

        Reply ↓
  23. CityMouse*

    The federal rule is on hold, sadly, but I’d check your local laws on non competes. I used to be on the board of a daycare and the national company wanted their employees to sign non competes that were explicitly unenforceable under state law.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      (I was on the parent board of a daycare that had a contract with a national company and we spent a lot of time advocating for the staff).

      Reply ↓
    2. Nilsson Schmilsson*

      In my experience in Missouri, which is normally very employer friendly in court, you cannot prevent someone from earning a living, however, you can prevent someone from sharing customer lists and other proprietary info. Non-competes are ridiculous, but non-solicitations seem to be much more effective and enforceable and can include prohibiting the poaching of employees AND disclosing company secrets.

      Reply ↓
  24. Incomplete Marshmallow*

    Not so much on these questions but on Inc: I hope Alison is compensated really well for writing for them because as a reader experience has anyone else noticed how awful they have become inthe past couple of months ?

    I gave them email address at some point to continue reading articles and at the time it was no big deal, but lately they have become super spammy: an onslaught of daily emails that persist even when I went through their preference center and unsubscribed from their gazillion mailing list options. I had literally unsubscribed several times to the specific maling lists they are sending me , though at this point I have given up and set a rule to mark them as spam. For a supposedly legitimate news source I am unimpressed.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      Report the sender to the FTC! The CAN-SPAM Act literally requires businesses to honor unsubscribe requests. (It ticks me off when businesses ignore unsubscribe requests, and I’m not above reporting them.)

      Reply ↓
  26. H.Regalis*

    If the coworker’s intention was to be insulting by giving their puppy the same name as the other coworker’s baby, then I think they’re not very good at insulting people.

    Reply ↓
  27. dulcinea47*

    My dad & stepmother adopted a dog with the same (fairly common) name as my cousin. I would have changed it, but they kept it.

    Reply ↓
  28. Coin_Operated*

    What is it with the naming police? There are so many articles of people getting upset when friends or co-workers choose the same names for their babies, (or get outraged when one is a baby, and the other, a pet). People are allowed to use whatever names they want for their kids and pets. If you’re upset about it, then go to therapy, jeez.

    Reply ↓
    1. CatDude*

      Seriously, it’s so childish. Big Main Character Syndrome – assuming the world revolves around them, and everything other people do is about them.

      Reply ↓

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