boss says it’s unacceptable not to meet all deadlines, no matter how unreasonable

by Alison Green on February 3, 2025

A reader writes:

I started a job eight months ago that I was very excited about. I was looking to get out of a highly stressful position and got this offer (same pay, somewhat worse benefits but growth potential) and what I thought would be a solid work-life balance. The first day, my boss mentioned how we typically end at 4:30. I’m used to working long hours so I was excited, thinking I’d have more time with my two small kids and husband. I was very wrong.

The first couple months were good and then “efficiency” became a big part of conversation. I was asked why reviewing a report would take me 15 minutes and could I get it down to 10? We also lost two people in our department and did not replace them while also being told we were no longer “outsourcing” any of our work. My colleague and I took it in stride and tried to be team players. Six months later, I’m working from 9 am until 9-11 pm every night or later. Before going out of office, I’ve worked until 1am and still been told I had too many items “outstanding” and it’s unacceptable to leave without all my work completely finished (which is not always possible when I’m awaiting responses from several people for info I’ve been following up for).

This all came to a head when my colleague and I both got really ill. We live in the same area and cold/flu was going around; my kids got it too. We were told we could take a sick day but all our deadlines still needed to be met. So, we couldn’t take one since that wasn’t possible, and we worked through it despite 102 fevers and both losing our voices entirely.

Now more and more work is being piled on. I haven’t ended before 9-11 pm in months and the burn-out is affecting my performance and physical and mental health. The stress keeps me up. I also feel like a terrible mom as I never get to spend an evening with my family, my husband is frustrated he never sees me at night, and my colleague is about to quit. But I have a family and I need this income.

We’ve brought it up to my manager and another higher-up, who say that we’re not being efficient enough and they’d love for us to finish on time but its not acceptable to log off/take PTO/a sick day if the work is not done. Despite not having experience in our day to day, they also say this workload should be manageable.

Is there a solution here? I’m a yes person and I realize I could have set better boundaries but in a new job I wanted to start strong. I’m outputting a ridiculous amount of work but it’s never enough.

You need to quit this job, because your company is abusing and exploiting you.

It’s one thing to expect people to pitch in and work (some) extra hours for a short-term, high-needs period. It is not reasonable to expect that as a routine way of operating, let alone daily — at least not unless people were clearly told of that expectation before they signed on and are being compensated accordingly.

The idea that it’s unacceptable to leave until all your work is done, even if that means staying past 1 am, is absurd. So is the idea that you can’t take sick days when you’re sick if there’s work waiting to be done.

That’s not how jobs work.

If they want to end each day with no outstanding work remaining, they need to hire the correct number of people to make that happen, not expect you and your colleague to work around the clock so they can avoid paying what that actually costs. (Oh, they don’t want to pay what that would cost? Well, neither do you — but right now you’re the one paying it via your time and health.)

You said you and your coworker wanted to be “team players,” but your company doesn’t seem like they’re on your team; you’re giving them far, far more than they’re giving you, and they’re happy to just keep taking unfairly, no matter the cost to you. That’s not the sort of team you want to play on.

Frankly, this is bad enough that you should consider quitting immediately (and explaining that during your notice period you’ll only be able to work the 40 hours per week that you agreed to when you came on board). If that’s not possible financially, then you need to go all-out on a job search because this isn’t okay or sustainable.

Meanwhile, while you’re stuck there, you need to set boundaries on your time. Tell your boss that your situation at home has changed and effective immediately you need to work the hours you were promised when you accepted the job. I strongly, strongly suggest you talk to your colleague and get her onboard with this plan too (because you’ll have more power standing as a team, and because she deserves it too, and also so that your work doesn’t just get piled on her).

Obviously, your boss won’t like this. You’ll probably be told you need to keep working late hours. The words to use in response are: “I was able to help out in a pinch, but I’m not able to work 14+-hour days anymore. When I was hired, we agreed I should 40-hour weeks on average, and the salary I’m being paid reflects a 40-hour week. I’ve gone above and beyond to help out after we lost two people, but this is affecting my health and my family and I need to return to normal hours.”

Is there a danger that they’ll fire you for daring to set utterly reasonable boundaries? Yes. (If that happens, you’ll be eligible for unemployment, which I know is likely cold comfort, but it’s worth factoring into your thinking.) But right now you’re being badly mistreated, have been thrust into a situation you never agreed to, and it’s affecting your health — and I would bet that if you calculate the actual hourly wage you’re receiving for those 70-hour weeks, that will help illustrate how bad this is. And while yes, putting your foot down is a risk, if you don’t do it, your company will simply keep expecting this of you and you’ll be in this same situation six months from now, or a year from now. The only way out is to say no.

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{ 219 comments }

{ 219 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Amber Rose*

    Please please please BOTH OF YOU say no and then do not.

    The fact is, they can respect your boundaries and make things better, or fire you and have literally nobody left to do the work while you get unemployment. Either way, you will be so much better off!

    Don’t let anyone treat you like this. You’re a person, not a robot slash punching bag.

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    1. Antilles*

      The fact is, they can respect your boundaries and make things better, or fire you and have literally nobody left to do the work while you get unemployment.
      Exactly.
      Though the fact that they’ve lost 50% of the department but refuse to backfill roles AND they also simultaneously cut down on outsourcing makes me suspect there’s no way they’d fire OP. They’re too cheap (too bankrupt?) to pay people to do the work, do we really think they’re going to pay OP unemployment to not work? Feels unlikely.

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      1. Selina Luna*

        That’s not how unemployment works. Unemployment is something that businesses pay in advance, and when the employee files for unemployment, they file with the state, not the company. If the company hasn’t been paying into unemployment, that won’t actually change the employee’s ability to get it at all.
        But I’ve realized that you’re saying that they won’t fire the employee and will just continue to have unreasonable expectations, and you might be right. It’s difficult to say whether they would fire this employee if the employee simply refuses to work beyond their normal hours.
        If they’re doing their government paperwork correctly, they’ve already paid the unemployment regardless of whether they fire the employee, though.

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        1. Antilles*

          Good point and I appreciate the clarification.
          Though I do feel like their cheapness will keep them from firing OP because of what that’s going to cost them in terms of even more missed deadlines, needing to hire someone new, training the new staff, etc.

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    2. WillowSunstar*

      Yes, this is abusive. Human beings need sleep in order to function properly and be effective workers. We also need our voices to work.

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    3. Miette*

      Also: if both you and your co-worker present a united front in this, be prepared for them to try to play you off of each other. They may threaten, cajole, yell, scream, or even offer one of you more money, but STAY FIRM.

      And if it works…STILL LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB, because they will absolutely fall back into this pattern again. This employer cannot be trusted. Get out in the best way you can.

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    4. goddessoftransitory*

      Exactly. LW, you and your coworker are holding the power here and they hope you won’t notice. If you both get fired there’s–no more company.

      Or they’re trying to “make” you quit so they can fold the business, in which case why do them the favor? Make them fire you and get the unemployment.

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    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I suggested a temp agency. If medical can go through husband, get out and just temp. I know the opportunities for temping aren’t what they used to be, but it’s better than this. Waiting tables is better than this. You might get stuck opening or closing, but the place DOES close.

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      1. Totally Minnie*

        Honestly, yes. A minimum wage receptionist or retail job would probably be more restful than what the LW is dealing with now.

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        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Been thinking more about this, because it’s so absurd. OP, nobody is going to give you a good reference. Don’t burn a bridge. Leave with professionalism and dignity, but don’t waste a second wondering “what will they do to me in the future?” Well. nothing. Once you are out of their power and control, nothing!

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    2. VP of Monitoring Employees' LinkedIn Profiles*

      That’s clearly why some bosses like to overload their subordinates with work — they won’t be physically able to look for new jobs, so they have to just sit there and take the abuse. (And yes, it IS abuse.)

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    3. Smithy*

      Absolutely this.

      In a situation like this putting yourself in a situation where you are fired (and then can collect unemployment) or quit with no notice and sign up for a temp agency – even at a pay cut you’ll have the mental space to look for a job. There’s no way you’ll have the bandwidth to do a true job hunt under this circumstance. Basically you’ll be so desperate to take the first life raft, that you won’t be able to see if that life raft has any problems.

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    4. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Yes! Which is why it’s so important to write in here and see how strongly Alison is URGING this person to find the energy to job-hunt.

      Reply ↓
    5. Ann*

      Absolutely – this is why OP really needs to take Alison’s advice about putting her foot down and no longer working extra hours.

      Reply ↓
    6. Also-ADHD*

      This is why I think LW should stop the extreme hours and just leave what doesn’t get done undone. If they want to write her up, etc. or even fire her, so be it. But I suspect they won’t actually fire her.

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    7. Alicent*

      The Sick Systems essay about coercive control by Issendai is excellent. My last boss used it as a playbook to keep us exhausted and demoralized so we wouldn’t have the self esteem or energy to look for another job. Half his money making staff quit at once and I now make twice as much for half the hours I was working trying to make him happy. At one point I was making under $20/hour as an experienced professional where the average salary is over $100k.

      Reply ↓
  3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    So clearly the work is not getting done since you have to have responses from other people (who aren’t staying late to get you that information apparently, you might see a clue there). Which does the world end when that happens? Most likely there are no consequences. So no point in literally destroying your health for something that in the long run doesn’t matter.

    Also, with a fever, what was the quality of your work anyway? It probably had to be redone, which is not efficient. Sometimes taking a day to get over being sick is the most efficient solution.

    Your boss is a loon. Set your boundaries, keep the paycheck as long as you can, and put your energies into finding a better job not into this one.

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    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I love when I find a comment that is exactly what I’m thinking. I smile when it’s my Partner in Petty. I hit all the same points.
      So, to OP, let your Pettys in the comment suggest you get a new attitude and let today be your new day.

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    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Yes! You’re putting in FOURTEEN HOUR DAYS and still being told your level of effort is unacceptable?!?? You’re being gaslit, and obviously there’s no level of effort they will accept, so realize that this is a them problem, not a you problem. You’re doing FAR more than many people would or even can do. Take some time to job search, fast, and don’t worry about the disapproval, they obviously need you quite desperately.

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      1. Venus*

        Yeah, it brings to mind Reasons are for Reasonable People. It doesn’t exactly apply in this situation, yet it’s clear that perfection won’t be sufficient for your boss so you might as well give up trying to do things perfectly. If you could suddenly review a report in 5 minutes instead of 10 or 15, they would tell you that it needs to be done in 3. They have learned that they can push OP and Coworker to work enough for the people that quit, so why would they hire anyone else?

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      2. Sweetie Darling*

        Agreed. And OP, that first evening that you’re home snuggling your kids at a reasonable hour you are going to feel guilty! Because that’s what happens in abusive situations.

        Take Alison’s advice, but save these comments to re-read when you are questioning things. And please update us when you can!

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        1. 2 Cents*

          Yes, as a similar “yes” person who wants to make people happy, you will feel guilty. You will feel less guilty as your health returns, your marriage/relationship with your husband improves, your kids remember what you look like, and you remember that your boss/company will never be happy with what you do.

          After this nightmare, if you aren’t in therapy already, it might be a good idea to invest in some sessions to see if there are reasons you would put up with this level of dysfunction if this is a pattern for you. (Again, I’m speaking as someone who has been there, done that!)

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      3. goddessoftransitory*

        My favorite quote on this subject comes from the Tomato Nation website’s old advice column, The Vine:

        Never put the desire to please [unreasonable] people ahead of your own well being and self interest.

        There is no level, no amount worked, no magic spell or talisman that can make them see reason in general and value you in particular, LW. They will cheerfully wear you to a nub and then throw you away.

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    3. Totally Minnie*

      The VAST majority of workplace deadlines are arbitrary and made up. Occasionally you’ll have a deadline that’s dictated by a contract or a statute, but most aren’t.

      If the deadline you’re working toward isn’t specifically listed in a statute or a contract, then the deadline is really just when your boss decides they would like to have the product. But the world isn’t going to end and the company isn’t going to collapse if that deadline gets adjusted.

      I agree with everyone else who is saying that the LW probably has a lot more power in this situation than they realize.

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    4. Lenora Rose*

      And above all: Literally what is the worst that can happen if you stick to your working hours? And is that worst thing actually any worse than what’s happening NOW, while your health is torched and your family strained?

      Reply ↓
  4. Monkey*

    Work your wage. If you’re being paid for 40hrs doing one job, don’t spend 80 doing 2 jobs. Effective immediately. And tell your boss the extra is their problem, not yours.

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  5. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    You do not need THIS job. I’m sorry, but they have messed you up so much that you went to work with fever. You know who does that? A soldier in combat because people will die. You know who won’t die? Customers waiting for TPS reports. The same people who aren’t getting you things and making you wait till all hours, BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR NORMAL PEOPLE. No, they haven’t set boundaries. My coworkers would have no idea what setting a boundary is because we don’t work for criminals who lie, steal, cheat and abuse us.
    You would be better off finding a job in retail or going to a temp agency. Can you get medical through your husband’s work? Even if it is less for more, you are going to damage your physical health, your mental health and your marriage. You deserve better.

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    1. ferrina*

      100%

      OP, talk to your spouse about your options. Can you afford to quit? It’s likely that your mental health has taken a nose dive working in this type of toxic environment, and quitting would be a weight off while you look for another job. If you can’t afford to quit, cut back to 40 hours and let the chips fall where they may. This will probably be extremely anxiety inducing. The company might fire you, and if they don’t (they probably won’t- they desperately need you) having that hanging over you will be so, so stressful.

      Either way, start your job search today. You need to get out of there.

      Reply ↓
  6. KHB*

    Running yourself ragged to “get all the work done” despite not having enough people is an excellent way to guarantee that you’ll never have enough people.

    Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      It’s a strategy to save on staffing costs. I’ve worked for a company that did this- they overloaded all their people and had us work the equivalent of 2 jobs each. They were built on churn-and-burn among the minions.
      It’s a bad strategy both on a human level and on a business level (you don’t get the same quality of work), but it is a strategy that some companies deliberately use.

      Reply ↓
  8. TechTrainer*

    Sometimes you just need to leave. As mentioned above, it is very difficult to get another job when you would be writing a cover letter totally exhausted and how difficult will it be to turn up for an interview with the hours you work, plus being exhausted for that as well. You’re going to struggle. On the bright side, its only been 8 months, the company is rubbish so just write it off as one of those things and move on. The job’s not going to get any better. Leave, brush up your CV and job hunt all day – When I’ve left a place with no job to go to (twice now), treating Job Hunting as a job worked for me – 8 hours a day letter and cv writing plus research with proper breaks means you turn out quality material.
    Good Luck!

    Reply ↓
  9. dulcinea47*

    If you take a new job, I highly advise learning how to set boundaries with your new employer. Nobody ends up working 14 hour days every day without giving their employer permission to walk all over them. If you don’t learn how to stop doing that, it’ll be the same at every job. You have to develop your own sense of what is reasonable and push back on anything more than that, from the start.

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    1. atalanta0jess*

      “If you don’t learn how to stop doing that, it’ll be the same at every job.”

      This is just patently untrue. The workforce is not full of managers who will abuse you at the slightest opportunity. Are there some, yes. Are there others who are kind and reasonable people? Also yes.

      Let’s not blame the victim here.

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      1. Antilles*

        Also, there are a lot of jobs where it wouldn’t even be *possible* to constantly work 14+ hour days because the staffing is such that there simply isn’t 60 more hours of productive/billable work just floating out there waiting to be done.

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      2. Frankie*

        OP has some responsibility here to understand how it got this bad and their role in it. People treat us how we let them *to a certain point*.

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        1. Starbuck*

          Yes; I’m sure this can happen to a lot of people in the wrong circumstances, but the inability or choice not to say “oh I’m not available to stay past 5pm, bye” and walk out the door or just sign off and ignore messages when you’re ill is not something that everyone puts up with. LW doesn’t have to live like this! Definitely worth exploring with a therapist.

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      3. SunnyShine*

        While I agree there are good managers who won’t do that, I don’t think this is victim blaming. Learning to say “no” is a vital work skill. While there are nuances to this situation, the problem is that OP didn’t see the nuance where they can say no. OP now has two situations where they work long hours. It’s wise for them to reflect and figure out their boundaries so that they won’t be used and abused in the future.

        Reply ↓
      4. Also-ADHD*

        Since LW had bad work/life balance in the job before this too, there’s something to be said for adjusting their radar a bit, to be fair. When you keep finding the same situation, or similar (but worse!), it’s good to re-calibrate to get something different.

        Reply ↓
    2. Smithy*

      When you work somewhere super toxic, you do need to de-program yourself on what is and is not workplace normal – but I’m not really sure that the language of boundaries is one that’s helpful.

      In most of the relationships that we have with supervisors there is a power differential – and so when our boss tells us that we really need to stay late, it’s normal to trust that it’s for a somewhat valid reason. Maybe we can only know some or part of the reason, but we’re “doing what they ask” for a purpose. It’s not that you can’t discuss needing a ride home covered because you’ll miss public transportation or need a break from 5-7pm but can return after – but trusting that the request is for a valid reason is part of being at healthy workplace.

      Going into a new workplace focused on just setting boundaries, sets you up to be adversarial with supervisors at first as opposed to approaching requests like that coming from a place of good faith. If you’re starting on day one to just set boundaries, it’s just being reactionary to a former problematic job or relationship.

      I’m not saying that anyone should give their workplace 100% trust in acting in the best interest of staff at all times – but starting off with a perspective of boundary setting as the primary focus isn’t how you start over after being in a problematic workplace.

      Reply ↓
    3. Lenora Rose*

      I note the bit about the first 2 months being normal hours, then a crisis where coworkers left, then when a crisis should eb petering out, this is treated as the new normal. This probably crept up on her hour by hour – and in the process, exhaustion itself made it that much harder to think clearly enough to recognize how not normal this is, and how much two employees doing all the work can push back. If she’s not thinking about boundaries, not thinking “Hey, they’re not allowed to tell me I can’t call in sick” it’s likely because *they* did what they could to put her into a position where stopping to think for 15 minutes is impossible.

      Think of it as low-grade brainwashing, because putting someone in a position of not sleeping, not getting any kind of relief, and still talking to her as if this is normal while pressuring her to do what they want, is LITERALLY a brainwashing/torture technique.

      Reply ↓
  10. AnonymousOctopus*

    I’m so glad Alison mentioned letting them fire you. All I was thinking throughout this was “Say no, let them fire you, collect unemployment and full-time job search”. I know unemployment isn’t equal to your salary and some states make it very difficult to file, but it’s gotta be better than this. And it’s better than trying to stay and eventually rage quitting or having to quit for medical reasons (no wages and no unemployment).

    Reply ↓
    1. Resentful Oreos*

      I am glad that Alison said “let them fire you” too. I think that is *exactly* what LW should do. Drop the rope, leave at 4:30, and triple dog dare them to fire you. YMMV because states are different but in my state which is very employee-friendly, you would be able to collect unemployment unless you did something drastic like bite your coworker.

      Your company is being abusive, LW. Drop that rope. Set those boundaries.

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    2. ABC*

      I 100% agree with this. As a young mom, there’s no way I could have just quit. I needed every single paycheck. So this way, you’ll either be able to drastically reduce your work hours, or they let you go and you can at least get a decent percentage of your income while you job search.

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    3. Justcuz*

      We were just talking the other day at work about the phrase “let them”. The beauty of “let them” is that it doesn’t matter how you feel about it or what you attitude is around believing it at the time. It is literally just allowing “them” to do “it” and face the consequences. You get to be passive and petty, or passive and giving up on them, or passive and passive aggressive. So feel your feelings, set boundaries if its warranted, and just … let them. Unreasonable is going to unreasonable.

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    4. Samwise*

      Right. I;m guessing OP actually has some power here — “what are they gonna do, fire me?” Probably not, since then they’ll be down to one employee… which is why it’s important for OP and co-worker to present a united front.

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    5. Lenora Rose*

      I already said, but feel it’s worth repeating: If she does say no, is the worst that happens actually worse than working 14 hour days, never seeing your own family, and trying to work with a fever of 102 and no voice?

      Also worth remembering: Your boss CANNOT deny you legitimate sick leave. They can say you
      “have to” come in all they want; it doesn’t make it true. What;’s the worst they can do, fire you?

      Reply ↓
  11. Lewis*

    No job is worth your health, your marriage and your family. As others have said, it’s consuming your entire life and you can’t see far enough to gain perspective. Your managers are awful for taking advantage of you in this way.

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    1. Ellis Bell*

      Yeah. OP, some of this stuff is irreversible. If you work around the clock, all you’ll earn is a health issue that might stay with you for life. Very often, you don’t know until it’s too late; stress does an absolute number on the body. If you never spend time with your spouse or kids, for long enough, you may reach a point where it’s very difficult to undo their resentment. If you think groceries are expensive, try paying for a divorce and two separate homes with more paid childcare thrown in. So, with those potential costs in the balance, why should OP pay such high personal costs to do this job? I don’t ask these questions lightly, I earned myself a nicely undoable health condition, because I was in the situation where if I quit without anything lined up, I would have lost my house. I know people in the US also have to consider health coverage. But, even if it’s something like that keeping you there, put a very short time frame on your escape plan. If it’s not a survival issue, and you simply want to hear the boss say you’re efficient and doing a good job… Well, honestly, their good opinion is not worth having. Work out what your new hourly rate is for 14 hour days, for some partial idea of how much they cost you every week.

      Reply ↓
  12. I should really pick a name*

    While this is a gamble, I think you have leverage because the company is already understaffed.

    You could try just working the hours you were hired for and go home at 4:30 or whatever.

    Replacing you is more trouble than accepting you working normal hours.

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    1. whimbrel*

      And if the boss does flip and fire OP and her colleague, then the lack of staff becomes a ‘them’ problem and not something OP has to worry about anymore. (and I feel like a month or so not working would be extremely beneficial to OP’s general life and health, even if EI doesn’t pay out as much as working – given the hours she was putting in though it probably isn’t far off if OP averages it out!)

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    2. Falling Diphthong*

      I do wonder: If OP and her colleague refuse to work this way any more, what is the company going to do? Fire both, then try to hire two people eager to work 12-16 hour days for medium salary and poor benefits, who will need to be trained and gotten up to speed?

      Reply ↓
      1. Resentful Oreos*

        They might bluster and threaten but under the circumstances, I think LW has more leverage than she might think. Also, Alison mentioned that if she’s fired she can collect unemployment – I agree unless LW is in a state that strongly sides with employers.

        I think LW should just drop the rope, leave at 430, and let the boss deal.

        Reply ↓
  13. Athenae*

    Unless you are currently working on the International Space Station or, like, a nuclear reactor, walk out when your day is done. I promise you your boss does not really care about you and will not reward you for your good behavior, and your kids will remember that you were stressed and worried all the time.

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    1. metadata minion*

      And heck, even on the ISS they have really rigidly scheduled days unless there’s some serious-business emergency because *if you tire people out they get sloppy and then the station depressurizes*.

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      1. Lenora Rose*

        People tried to gripe at Chris Hadfield that “He should be doing science not playing guitar”, but all his fellows in NASA and on the ISS had his back because downtime matters so much (it also made for great outreach, but *even if it didn’t* it was more than allowed to spend a few hours strumming).

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      1. Baldrick*

        My buddies and I worked 12-14 hour days in a warzone because we had little else to do and we knew our deployment would eventually end and we’d have a normal schedule back home. Trying to work those hours when someone has a family and it could go on indefinitely is worse than my warzone situation.

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  14. MsSolo (UK)*

    I’d also suggest doing the maths quickly and see what the hours you’re actually working does to your hourly wage. I don’t know with US minimum wages, exempt rules, and labour laws whether there’s an actual legal impact to dropping below minimum wage in a pay period, but it’s still worth seeing the raw figures for your own sake, especially if the additional work means you’re paying more for childcare or other costs.

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  15. Kay*

    OP – this is really REALLY not normal. This is not normal for a company to ask for and it is not normal for an employee to agree to. This is beyond wild. Your concept of what is acceptable is very warped and you need to get out of the sake of your sanity.

    You might want to take a look at how and why things got to this point so that you make sure not to let it happen again. None of this is okay! I wish you all the best in finding a reasonable, normal workplace.

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    2. Hey Ms!*

      Yes, please go back through your calendar and see if you can remember and track all of your hours so that you have a record. Keep track of regular and overtime hours (idk if your overtime counts as over 8 hours per day or over 40 hours of week, but check that too.) See if you have any emails or text messages from your boss that indicate your need to stay late to finish tasks. Check that those days you worked when you called in sick are actually paid work days, and not sick benefit days.

      In the misinterpreted words of Tyra Banks: I’m rooting for you! We are all rooting for you!

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    4. Cupcakes are awesome*

      I know you need the money but it sounds like you could get a simple lower paying job, then get a SECOND job in retail or fast food or something a few weeknights or on the weekends, and STILL BE WORKING LESS HOURS. Probably for the same money?

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  17. sagewhiz*

    Have you calculated what your hourly pay comes out to for all those hours? Does it place you below minimum wage? If so, is that even legal for exempt workers???

    Reply ↓
    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      It’s not legal. If they’re working you 80 hours/week exempt and paying you 1.5x minimum wage, then, legally, you’re entitled to the minimum wage across all the actual 80 hours worked, not just the “standard” 40 hours that rate is normally calculated against.

      Reply ↓
      2. Artemesia*

        I’m guessing right now in our current political climate people who are being underpaid will have no legal place to turn. Already discrimination complaints are not being worked; your boss could literally call you an N and fire you or refuse your promotion because you are a woman and there is no one who will work that case. Can’t imagine other worker abuses are going to be addressed by a system that has decided no one counts but billionaires.

        Reply ↓
        1. Seashell*

          I agree that it might be a problem in some areas, but people can still file civil lawsuits. I don’t know if there are civil remedies for the above issue, but it’s better to talk with an attorney who specializes in the relevant area to see if you can do anything instead of just deciding that’s the case.

          Reply ↓
    2. Just another commenter*

      To be exempt, they should be getting paid at least $684/week (if not, see Alison’s comment about making sure you are correctly classed as exempt). If they are in a state like mine that only observes federal minimum wage, they would have to work over 94 hours to drop below minimum wage.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      From what I found on the Department of Labor website, it looks like it is legal for exempt workers to be paid below the minimum wage:

      The FLSA requires that most employees in the United States be paid at least the federal minimum wage for all hours worked and overtime pay at not less than time and one-half the regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 hours in a workweek.

      However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees.

      I’ll link the page in question in a follow-up comment.

      Reply ↓
  18. Marz*

    So, if this sounds overwhelming – and obviously it sounds like you’re not in the position to lose your job/quit immediately – maybe start slow? If you’ve both been saying yes to all this, start by just, not doing all the stuff? Like, you are hearing them say, “you can take a sick day if you also magically do all the everything forever” so, instead, just hear “you can take a sick day”. Or they say, you have to get this done, just, don’t.

    I think it sort of starts with getting away from the mindset of, “I have to do this because they said I did.” What are they going to DO about it? They can’t MAKE you do it. And they can only fire you once, and, I obviously can’t guarantee they won’t do that, but they really don’t want to do that. Then who would do all this work? them??? So, let a few balls drop. Leave at a reasonable time for something. If they yell, yeah, that sucks. Pull you into meetings, scold you, use up the precious time you have to get tasks done to tell you do more tasks, I’m not saying it won’t be awkward and possibly terrible. But dip your toe into not doing all this, and it might suck but it might not be as bad as you fear, and you can use that time to search for another job.

    Reply ↓
    1. My Useless Two Cents*

      OP, you do not need to *ask permission* to take a sick day. If you are sick, and have sick time, you *tell* them you are taking a sick day.

      The unreasonable expectations of how much can/should be done in an hour, day, week, etc. is a completely different issue. Cut back to 40 hours, do what you can in those hours, walk out the door and leave work there until you walk back in the door the next working day. I get that at first this will be scary and anxiety inducing but take a deep breath and tell yourself “the worst they can do is fire me”. It helps!

      Reply ↓
      1. HonorBox*

        Your first two sentences – chef’s kiss. You’re sick. You get to make that determination. No one gets to give you permission to be sick and take a day to feel better.

        Reply ↓
    2. Generic Name*

      Yes. You said it yourself, OP, management doesn’t have the experience in your type of work to know what is/is not reasonable. So if they fire you, they have no one to do the work.

      Reply ↓
  19. Fotze*

    I’m all about efficiency, one of my degrees was in Economics…but this ISN’T an efficiency issue!
    If two people are doing work that was previously done by four, it’s not reasonable…unless half those hours were spent milling around the water cooler, which is rare outside government work.
    I couldn’t possibly imagine working days like this for months (and I’ve served in the military), and I find it odd that 1am is a time work is expected to be done, seeing as most people aren’t going to be getting back to you at that hour. Even when I worked with mostly foreign stakeholders, they rarely expected me to communicate outside normal business hours (in America).
    Please quit. Please consider that I understand exactly how hard it can be when you just need a paycheck…I’m living it, but don’t let yourself be treated like this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Person from the Resume*

      There’s really no need to knock federal employees right now. And frankly implying that most govt employees spend half their days not working is not at all accurate.

      Reply ↓
      1. Archi-detect*

        we are just as up to our eyeballs in performance metrics and too much workload as private sector, I assure you

        Reply ↓
      2. Liz Bender*

        With a username like Fotze, it’s entirely possible this commenter is not referring to the US Federal Government :)

        Reply ↓
    2. Greyhound*

      Mother of a public sector worker here – 8 to 10 hrs daily, often without a lunch break, and often weekend work just to catch up. No water cooler in sight. Please don’t feed the stereotype.

      Reply ↓
    4. wendelenn*

      Was the insult to government workers necessary? Especially right now when we have an insane maniac “in charge”?

      Reply ↓
      1. And also*

        Plus, the implication of some of the EOs is to potentially make them work… kind of literally exactly like this letter? (e.g., the “fork in the road” nonsense, also if the requirement “you have to have 40h *in office* every week; oh but you have a regular 6pm with a different time zone and maybe also 6ams with a different country, TOO BAD, NO EXCEPTIONS, WORK MORE HOURS”) (and frankly I think a lot of time and energy is being wasted trying to parse out what exactly tfg meant by all his nonsense and how to comply, which is absolutely not the workers’ fault or choice.)

        Reply ↓
    5. Gardwel*

      In the current environment, please refrain from the derogatory remarks about government workers!

      I am not a government worker, but I know several people who are and they work hard.

      Reply ↓
    6. Observer*

      unless half those hours were spent milling around the water cooler, which is rare outside government work.

      It’s also rare in government work.

      I’m not sure why you felt the need to take a swipe at a group of people, when it’s just *SO* totally irrelevant to the situation. Given that fact that it’s also untrue and people are being badly hurt right now, it’s just beyond ugly.

      Reply ↓
  20. ThatGirl*

    Man, I would get fired before I ever worked that late that often – not only do I just refuse to work that late, I would be useless after a certain time (or when that sick). My brain just can’t do it anymore.

    This is not to victim blame – I get that it can be hard to say no to a new job and you keep telling yourself it’s temporary. But this is not normal, not good, and you need to get out NOW.

    Reply ↓
    1. A Significant Tree*

      OP didn’t say how they lost the two other people in their department but I’d bet money it’s because they wouldn’t put up with the terrible long hours. And that’s before there were only two people to do the work of 4+.

      OP, I hope you’re able to take all this in – the work environment you’re in is not normal, and setting boundaries will give you your life back one way or another.

      Reply ↓
    2. HonorBox*

      You make a really good point about how the brain works (or doesn’t) after a certain time. It is possible to do something like this for a short period of time, but at some point you’re not going to be able to process information. Not knowing what the LW’s work is, I do wonder how critical making a mistake might be. There could be some larger consequences for the business and I’d want to think about that if I were the boss.

      Reply ↓
    3. My Useless Two Cents*

      I swear my brain stops working after about 7 hours (not even a full day!). After those 7 hours, my productivity drops every minute after that until I’m literally working backwards (having to re-do everything I touch two-three times). Sometimes it’s better just to go home.

      After working so many hours a day for so long, I wouldn’t be surprised if OP’s productivity improved immensely if they cut back to “only” 40 hours a week.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bird names*

        Yeah, if I remember productivity studies around hours/week worked correctly, they tend to bear this out. After a certain point adding hours does not only *not* increase work output, it decreases the output thanks to what you described (having to correct mistakes tired past-you made).

        Reply ↓
    4. Great Frogs of Literature*

      Yeah, my wife worked one(!) 14-hour day two weeks ago, for a crisis situation. (She says it was only 13 hours, but I figure that the half hour lunch and the half hour walk home before logging on again don’t really count. Regardless.) She had to sign off because she had reached a point where she could no longer string words together coherently.

      And she was ABSOLUTELY WIPED for the next two days. I’m sure she got only a fraction of her usual work done, because she was still exhausted. And the week after she got a vicious cold and had to miss two days of work, and while we don’t know for sure that the lack of sleep was a compounding factor, we both have our suspicions.

      (This is thankfully not a regular occurrence. If she started having one or two of these a week, I’d be encouraging her to tell her higher ups that they either needed to find a way to cut back her hours, or she was going to quit, and we’d work out our household finances. I can’t imagine if it were all day every day, and we don’t have kids.)

      Reply ↓
    5. NothingIsLittle*

      I worked these hours for one week during a hurricane because I was providing disaster relief. It was brutal and I slept for over 24 hours straight when it was over. I cannot imagine working that many hours regularly.

      Reply ↓
  21. Insert Creative Name Here*

    One of the best things I was told when I was struggling in a toxic job:

    “You know you don’t have to stay, right?”

    I was trying to plug through to finish a major project, knowing that no matter how good a job I did, my boss would point out every minute thing that didn’t happen the way it should have, and add it to the 10+ pages of notes highlighting any and every mistake she thought I made, and questioned my mental status because at 8 a.m. on a Monday I couldn’t think of what I did on Friday at work. But I thought I had to stay because colleague would have all my stuff on their plate, and I couldn’t let them or my other coworker down.

    It was a friend in HR who told me, days before the project happened, that I did not have to stay. So I wrote up my “effective immediately” letter of resignation, had HR friend review it, and handed it to my boss when she walked into the office and I walked out. Then delivered copies to the Board of Directors HR committee chair, and to the Board Chair. And thankfully husband supported me in this decision.

    So let me say this to you.

    You know you don’t have to stay, right?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      I mean, I want to acknowledge that lots of people don’t have the luxury of walking out of a job. It’s nice if your married and you have a husband who can pay for the two of you and cover insurance, but there are plenty of people who aren’t in that position. But you can definitely get creative with ways that allow you to leave a toxic job. It just may not be walking out.

      Reply ↓
      1. Insert Creative Name Here*

        I agree with you, Sloanicota – and I should have mentioned that if they’re able to leave that way, financially that they can do it, it’s ok. It’s a boundary setting and self-preservation. Every company, every job situation is different. But the message that shocked me into doing something for me was “You don’t have to stay, you know that, right?” when I felt obligated to stay – for the project, and for my colleagues, at the expense of my health.

        And it is more than ok to leave on your own terms to look after your health, be it walking out the door or job searching in earnest, or setting the 7.5 hour days boundary. <3

        Reply ↓
        1. bamcheeks*

          I was lucky enough to get told that by my mum when I was 19 and working as a waitress. I was living at home and that income wasn’t supporting me, and obviously it was more complicated once I had things like rent or a mortgage and a family to support. But it is immeasurably easier to figure those things out when you’ve slain the dragon of “but you can’t QUIT! Only quitters quit!” early on. You can’t even begin to think about alternatives like temping or applying for other jobs or FMLA or using your savings if you’re working under the belief that You Can’t Leave Because You Just Can’t.

          Reply ↓
    2. Corporate Goth*

      A friend of mine told me something similar for a nonprofit type of job, when I was agonizing over whether to leave and knowing what disasters would follow:

      “No one can say you didn’t put your time in.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Not a Vorpatril*

      Heh. That saying was actually one of the reasons for not re-upping my military time. Had a really crappy superior when I first came in, and while he was eventually put to pasture when his leadership changed (was not discharged because previous buddy leadership didn’t put in the work to make that possible, I think) and my position was made a lot better, it reminded me of the fact that if I were to get another bad superior later on, I couldn’t just quit unlike in the civilian world!

      Definitely something I point out to kids here who are thinking about serving. Not that the military doesn’t try to prevent such things, and my “bad boss” was only fairly bad, not the hell-scape LW is talking about, but it is food for thought.

      Reply ↓
        1. anotherfan*

          wasn’t he planning to morph into a consular job for real after he and Tej finally leave the outer limits of the universe?

          Reply ↓
  22. Person from the Resume*

    Just stop working late. Work your 40 hours and leave. Come back to tomorrow and resume work. LET THEM FIRE YOU FOR THIS.

    Also if you’re sick, don’t work. Take a sick day and do not work.

    See if they fire you for this because if they fire you, the company is down to a 1 person office with more than 24 hours work per day for that person.

    Except that you’re already so burnt out, you should quit now. But if you had resisted their insane pressure from the beginning, they might have been forced to hire more people, let less important things drop, or fire you already.

    ** this isn’t really a knock on the LW. I’m sure the pressure started slow, but whoever is telling you that you can’t take sick days and can’t leave until all your work is done is wrong and a terrible manager. He can fire you (maybe), but that’s it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Falling Diphthong*

      The frog boiling thing may not be literally true, but it sure as heck describes a very common human mode of operating.

      Be the frog! Leap out of the water as soon as it’s uncomfortably warm!

      Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      If they fire you, they were probably going to fire you sooner or later anyway. The fact that they’re not staffing the department may suggest they’re either having financial issues or don’t value that work very highly. Either the work is valuable in which case they probably won’t fire you because you’re the one doing a lot of valuable work, or it’s not in which case your actions won’t make a difference anyway.

      Reply ↓
      1. Falling Diphthong*

        This is very well parsed.

        OP, I know you are exhausted from the unreasonable demands right now. Consider that that is by design, to meet a short-term goal and the company isn’t concerned about long-term sustainability.

        Reply ↓
      2. Generic Name*

        Or another reason a department could be understaffed is because the company underpays its employees and they have a hard time hiring qualified people willing to work for under market.

        Reply ↓
  23. Enn Pee*

    I would highly recommend you spend some time looking at FLSA. Are you exempt or non-exempt?

    If you are non-exempt, you need to be receiving overtime for any hours above 40 that you work in a week.

    You can look here to see if you are exempt from FLSA, but considering the way your boss hovers over your work, you might argue that you are NOT exempt even if your employer says you are. (That is, are you really allowed “exercise of discretion” or does your work require “the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment”?)

    https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17a-overtime

    You can contact the Wage and Hour Division even if you are not sure if this is worthy of a complaint. They are the experts and they are there to help you.

    In addition, if your state has laws about sick time, you may want to look into that. Not being able to take sick time or having to work while sick may be something covered by your state’s laws.

    Reply ↓
  24. Falling Diphthong*

    Your company is doing this because it’s working fine for them. And they don’t care how much it hurts you and your coworker, so long as the work gets done.

    They aren’t suddenly going to exclaim “Why this is unethical and unfair! We shall halt forthwith!”

    Also Pastor Patty has a good point about how it seems very possible that if you refused (as the people you are waiting on seem to have refused), then the world would not end.

    Reply ↓
    1. Poison I.V. drip*

      The fact that LW and coworker haven’t been fired for their “inefficiency” suggests they’re operating within expected parameters and the boss knows it. He also knows it’s harder to hire replacements that will accept that level of abuse than it is to gaslight his current employees. LW has leverage here, she just doesn’t know it. She should use that leverage to get shorter hours/better pay and still look for another job.

      Reply ↓
    3. learnedthehardway*

      Agreed – as long as the OP and her colleague let the company demand 14 hour days from them, the company isn’t going to staff the empty positions.

      I’m having this same situation with my spouse right now – he’s working 7 days a week because someone quit and the company owners aren’t highly motivated to replace that person. I pointed out that they won’t replace the person as long as the work is getting done.

      You have to let the manager fail in order to get the resources you need.

      Reply ↓
    4. Observer*

      Your company is doing this because it’s working fine for them

      Maybe it’s working fine for them *for the moment*. And maybe it is *not* working fine, but they just don’t realize it.

      But it doesn’t really matter. It’s not the LW’s problem. Because whatever the case is, ultimately, the best way forward is to find another job, even if it means “forcing” them to fire them because they started working reasonable hours.

      Reply ↓
  25. London Calling*

    Get out now. I did a month of (only) 50 hour weeks and was lightheaded from the stress, so no surprise here you’re on your knees. As a pp said, NO job is worth your physical and mental health,let alone that of your family.

    Leave – walk out if you have to – take a few weeks off and sign up with some temp agencies. Leave it as a gap on your CV and concoct something plausible to cover that time. But leave before you collapse entirely. Please. This isn’t a job, it’s indentured servitude.

    Reply ↓
    1. OrangeCup*

      I once worked 6 weeks of 14 hours days, 7 days a week for a project and I didn’t know if I was coming or going during those 6 weeks, knowing there was a defined end date for the project . I felt like I was still recovering 2 months later.

      Reply ↓
      1. London Calling*

        Someone said upthread that after a certain number of hours you’re just not effective anyway so what’s the point of hours and hours of punitive overtime? one of the reasons I left exjob was because the CFO was making overtime noises and I thought ‘I already get up at 6am to commute into work across London, and I’m doing payables. NOTHING about my job requires overtime and if it does, either I’m organising my workflow badly or I have too much work anyway.’

        A bit like the time a manager wanted my mobile number so I could be contacted whenever. I suggested that if my job was that important I had to be on call 24 hours (it wasn’t) we needed to discuss what my immediate salary increase was going to be.

        Never heard any more about it.

        Reply ↓
        1. OrangeCup*

          Oh I definitely wasn’t effective – my brain was basically Swiss cheese by the end. So when the big bosses were asking me questions after it was over and I literally couldn’t pull enough brain cells together to answer, I honestly thought I was going to get fired at the end (very difficult people who expect instant and immediate answers and thankfully I don’t deal with them much). Also they were asking me questions about things not related to the project and I was like…I spent the last year only doing this, I do not know about anything else right now.

          Reply ↓
        2. Lab Boss*

          I’ll say, the “not effective after a certain number of hours” is only true to a point. In a job where you’re doing lots of thinking you’ll eventually go into brain fog, and in a really physical job you’ll eventually wear out, but I’ve definitely done jobs where I COULD have plugged along for 14 hours and been effective the whole time. Sure it would have been diminishing returns and hour 14 wouldn’t be as efficient as hour 4, but if it was just a question of taking all the time possible to get a huge backlog done I could have.

          Reply ↓
  26. Burnt Out Librarian*

    Another path you could take here: Go see a doctor and get diagnosed with exhaustion. Get a note that says you can’t work for two weeks. Take FMLA to protect your position. Then, use your PTO and DO NOT GO BACK OR DO ANY WORK WHILE YOU ARE OUT. No checking e-mail, no answering calls, NOTHING. They should be unable to confirm whether you are resting at home or in a coma at the hospital. Take the time to apply to other jobs.

    Meanwhile, let whatever happens without you there happen. Maybe the ship sinks and your boss finally realizes how much they’ve loaded onto you. Or maybe it stays afloat and the work you’ve been forced to complete under tight deadlines isn’t as important and time-sensitive as the bosses thought.

    Either way, it doesn’t matter because once you’ve used your *rightfully earned* PTO, you’re going to give your notice and let them know you will not be working any extra time or training a replacement without considerable changes to the job description and expectations.

    You have a *lot* more power here than you think you do. Use it as a way to escape. If you can help your coworker out too, by all means, but in my experience, it’s everyone for themselves when it comes to escaping exploitative, toxic workplaces like this.

    Reply ↓
    2. RC*

      Unfortunately I think in the US FMLA protections don’t kick in until you’ve been there for a year, because we suck. But maybe someone can correct me if I’ve gotten that wrong.

      Sick leave, on the other hand, is hopefully being earned and should be able to be used. I do agree that she (and coworker) probably have more leverage than they think they do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Seashell*

        The size of the organization also matters regarding if FMLA applies.

        I can’t imagine not using sick leave in the situation described.

        Reply ↓
    3. The Other Evil HR Lady*

      Sadly and unfairly, LW has only been at her job 8 months, so no FMLA yet (unless the letter is from October/November and she’s still there). I was thinking of FMLA as well, then realized it’s not possible.

      Reply ↓
    5. Valencia Peanut Butter*

      I totally agree – but it looks like OP has only been at this company for 8 months and therefore doesn’t qualify for FMLA. FML however they are all over 100%.

      Reply ↓
  27. HonorBox*

    LW, as weird as it sounds, I think you have a bit of the upper hand here, mostly because this situation is one you need to get out of. So you have the opportunity to play the hand the way you want. Best case, things change and you’re happy there. Worst case, they fire you, you file for unemployment and you find something that isn’t a complete nightmare.

    So challenge your boss over this. Remind them that you’d signed on to work 40 hours a week for your salary, on a team of 4. Now that 2 people have left and there seems to be no “short term” in this at all, you expect that your salary will be doubled to account for the fact that you’re working for 2. And that increase will be retroactive to when the other two left.

    Clearly they won’t agree to this, but I think it can highlight for them how ridiculous this situation is. And then tell them you’re going to end your day at 4:30 or 5 every day. You’re going to take a sick day when you’re sick. You’re not going to stick around until 9 or 10 every night hoping someone is going to get back to you. You’re going to do your work under the conditions you agreed to when you were hired. There is no possible way that every thing gets done every day. And honestly, there are very few workplaces in which everything must get done every single day.

    If they want to fire you over that, consider it a win.

    Reply ↓
  28. Sloanicota*

    Once you commit to your job search, this job loses it’s power over you. Start today. Maybe you feel like eight months is shorter than the ideal, but it’s worth it to start applying anyway and see what’s out there. The economy might not be great but try anyway. It always takes me some practice to get up to speed anyway, so you might as well start. And be creative about how you might pay your bills if you had to. Could you freelance, switch course, do a second part time job, whatever. Their power exists in your mind right now – you need them so you have to do whatever they want. If you truly believe you will find other work suddenly you’ll realize they only have the power you gave them.

    Reply ↓
  29. tjames*

    I wonder what the probability is that they actually will fire you and your colleague if you refuse to work past 5 p.m. because it seems like they would be in real trouble if one or both of you was told to leave. It might be that they need you more than you need them.

    Reply ↓
    1. Juicebox Hero*

      Wow, that was great to read. Not only that she walked away from her awful job but that her family was so kind and supportive while she got back on her feet.

      Reply ↓
  31. mmiller540*

    I’m wondering if this is a job that the company has categorized as exempt-from overtime when it isn’t. She needs to look into that.

    This is question for Alison: Even if you are exempt from overtime and you correctly categorized by your company for it; isn’t there a max number of hours that they can be expected to work over time? if they work you over that; they have to pay you the OT.

    Reply ↓
      1. mmiller540*

        That’s too bad.

        My employer has a max of 60 hours per week but is lenient about them going to get their hair done; run errands etc. during working hours when it’s slows down. We have peak seasons like other organizations. I work at the University and some of the faculty wait until the list minute to request something expecting other stay late on a regular basis. If it goes over 60 hours; they are paid OT.

        Reply ↓
  32. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

    You say you’re a yes-person. The company knows this and is exploiting it.

    They are lying to you and telling you that this workload is manageable, sustainable, acceptable: it is not.

    So from now on, your script is “Yes, I’ll be happy to do that…[silently:during my originally agreed-upon hours, which means that deadlines will not be met.]” “Yes, I can absolutely get that done…[silently: in a timeframe that is actually doable, which is Not What They Are Demanding.]” “Yes, that unreasonable expectation works for me…[silently: because I will be not expecting to meet it.]”

    Reply ↓
    1. mmiller540*

      She needs to start bcc herself on all of the email requests regarding what they are asking and what’s reasonable; her email response, etc. . Also document their work hours and keep a log of verbal requests and her response. She needs to keep this off-site so if they terminate her without any warning she has access to it. I know Virginia automatically denies unemployment when someone is fired and than you have to go through an appeals process.

      Reply ↓
  33. Roeslein*

    I don’t think going on an “all-out job search” while burn-out and working 14 hours days is feasible or realistic! I recently spent a year trying to do just that and mental and physical just kept getting worse and worse. When I did get an offer it was too late – I ended up turning it down because I was getting pack attacks about continuing to work in the field. I also lost on good opportunities because I was too burnt out to interview well. In the end I had to quit with nothing lined up and wish I had done that a year earlier! If OP was in my country I would say they need to take medical leave to address their burn-out, take at least 2 weeks off and once they are a bit rested look for a new role.

    Reply ↓
    2. Miss Chanandler Bong*

      You can do that in the US if you’ve been there at least a year, provided you have documentation from a medical provider. Sometimes, short term disability (assuming you have that; it’s a good idea if you do) will pay for it. All depends, but also worth looking into.

      Reply ↓
    3. Observer*

      I don’t think going on an “all-out job search” while burn-out and working 14 hours days is feasible or realistic!

      True. Which is why the advice is t *also* stop working those hours. Even in less employee friendly states, if the LW can document the hours and insane demands, they will be eligible for Unemployment, which is not great but does create a bit of a cushion. And also, it’s not that likely that either person will get fired, because the work does need to get done.

      Reply ↓
  34. Juicebox Hero*

    You have to take care of yourself, physically and mentally, first. This job and your cruel and stupid management have turned you into a nervous wreck in less than a year and you’re going to hit bottom hard if you don’t do something soon.

    Sit down with your husband and plan for the “worst” (scare quotes because I think being jobless for a while is better than trying to continue where you are.) What have you got in savings? Does he work outside the home? What luxuries can you give up for a few months? What nice but not vital things can you give up for a few months? Fear of the unknown is a big part of why drastic change is so hard. Once you face it and think through it the fear doesn’t exactly go away, but it’s a more managable, practical kind of fear than existential dread.

    Then quit this crap job. I don’t have a lot of confidence in Alison’s advice working; as a fellow yes-person I know I’d get sucked back into the crapnado after one terrifying, defiant day. Take at least one full week to rest, be with your kids and husband, and decompress. Kids are resilient. They might resent losing streaming TV and having to eat the same leftovers for dinner all week, but they’ll get over that. “Parent is always working and never there and upset all the time and Dad is angry and it’s all tense and scary” does real harm.

    You got this job. You got the job you left, and all the ones you had before it. You deserve so much better, and you’ll get it.

    As for your coworker… I feel just as bad for them, but at the end of the day you can’t really do anything for them. They’ll have to make the same hard decisions when their own watershed moment comes, unfortunately.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      My dad had a job he hated for a few years when I was little. It was not ideal. Then we moved and he quit and things got a lot better.

      Reply ↓
  35. Miss Chanandler Bong*

    OP, as someone who suffered through a bad boss, THIS IS NOT WORTH IT.

    Do what you need to do to support your family, but your health is not worth this.

    And also, as someone who deals with health issues, boundaries in the workplace are important. “My workday concludes at 5 pm; I’m willing to work X amount of hours overtime as needed, but most weeks should remain within a 40 hour workweek.” “This task cannot be completed effectively in 30 minutes; it requires at least an hour.” “PTO is part of my compensation package, I intend to use it.” In my state, they also can’t tell you that you’re not allowed to take a sick day as long as it’s fewer than 5 sick days in a calendar year, but if it’s part of your comp package, I would also push that.

    It’s not worth unaliving yourself for a job. Your family wants you around.

    Reply ↓
  36. NR*

    In my last job, I had a manager who was known for picking a department scapegoat, and eventually it was my turn. My previously-acceptable work was suddenly Not Enough and I was subjected to almost daily reprimands about how I was Not Performing At The Level Of My Position (without providing any concrete examples even when I point-blank asked) and implications that I was on the verge of being fired or demoted if I didn’t Change My Ways somehow. My mental health nosedived and I seriously considered doing something drastic just to escape.

    This was around the time when the final Star Wars sequel movie was coming out (I swear this is relevant) and I remember Mark Hamill appearing on a talk show promoting the film and at one point, when asked if he would divulge any spoilers for the film, shrugged and joked “what are they going to do, fire me?”

    For some reason, this hit home *hard*. It somehow hadn’t occurred to me before that the literal *worst* thing they could do was fire me, and while that would be frustrating and difficult in the short term, it wasn’t the end of the world and certainly wasn’t any worse than enduring the daily abuse I was facing on the job. Not just that, my department was almost half-empty due to people fleeing that manager and if I was gone, the manager would have to pick up the slack, something I knew they would do anything to avoid. It looks like your department is in a similar situation. They can’t afford to fire you, and even if they somehow did it anyway, they’ll suffer for it far more than you will.

    So this is my advice to you, OP: go Full Hamill. What are they going to do, fire you?

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I mean, they might. Unreasonable people do illogical things. But it’s certainly not a guarantee that they will fire the LW! Like you said, this awful situation sounds a lot worse than getting fired.

      Reply ↓
  37. Jellyfish Catcher*

    As another conscientious person, I had to learn that decency and effort will never change crazy, lazy, incompetence or nasty in the office or in life.

    Two lessons I had to learn:
    1. Recognize Toxic and Unfixable;
    2. Take care of you first: get out as soon as possible.
    You can do this; I highly recommend a bit of therapy to speed up the process.

    Reply ↓
    1. Observer*

      I had to learn that decency and effort will never change crazy, lazy, incompetence or nasty in the office or in life.

      This is true.

      LW, you cannot fix this. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

      Just figure out how to rescue yourself.

      Reply ↓
  38. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    My sympathy and support because I’ve BEEN there where a job is pushing me straight toward a nervous breakdown (when you start seriously contemplating driving your car off a bridge it’s NOT a good thing).

    I resigned, with no other job to go to. And went through a lot of help from the doctors because I was a wreck for months after.

    It leaves you with scars. The longer you stay the deeper the wounds get.

    And as someone who saw a guy literally have heart failure as a result of pushing himself into work with a severe case of flu lemme tell you it is NOT worth it.

    Reply ↓
  39. JukeBox*

    Here’s a little phrase that helped me through a similar rough spot, “I can learn. I can grow. I can say no. I can go!” It helps to concentrate on what you CAN do when you feel so helpless. Take heart.

    Reply ↓
  40. NotMyNormalName*

    It is time to go zero tolerance. Which means you work 8.0 hours a day and not a second more. If they have a problem with that they can go pound sand.

    Set yourself up with a reasonable system for prioritizing, since they will not do it for you and work hard for 8 hours and go home. Do not answer your phone after hours, do not answer email after hours. And if you are sick, take a sick day.

    If your coworker will come on board great, but if not, nope.

    Reply ↓
  41. Throwaway Account*

    OP, please quit (or stick firmly to your boundaries). I don’t know if I’ve ever seen the first line of Alison’s response so clearly say to quit! Please take this seriously!

    wishing you the best success!

    Reply ↓
  42. S*

    I would to add that you should also look into labor laws in your area, if you’re non-exempt, all this extra work (anything outside of 40 hours/week) should be overtime EVEN if you’re salaried. You might want to talk to a labor lawyer (I can recommend some but won’t because IDK is that’s allowed?) to see if you can sue them for overtime pay.

    Reply ↓
  43. Endless TBR Pile*

    OP, I know you’re getting advice to leave (and you should!). I also know how hard it can be when you need income and have no brain capacity left for applying to jobs. So, first, take a week off. A full week, so you have 9 days to not think about working there.

    While your kids are at school, get your resume together. Apply to anything that seems like it might suit you. Apply to temp agencies. Apply to retail. Then at 5pm turn off your computer and have dinner with your family, spend the night with your kids and husband.

    If you go back to work (big if – I bet you send in your resignation during that week off), only work 40 hours. Encourage your coworker to do the same. Let the boss be mad – he’s unreasonable. Let the work pile up – it’s unmanageable. As Alison said, if they fire you, you’ll get unemployment.

    This isn’t sustainable or healthy. Wishing you luck, OP.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Exactly this. Take some actual vacation where you are totally unavailable. Heck, you can lie and say you’re going to be somewhere with no cellphone / internet connectivity. Start to heal. See how it goes with your boss when you do this. Then make decisions with this new information in mind.

      Reply ↓
    2. Heirloom Tomato Heiress*

      Another idea – My daycare is always hiring and I know staff people get free/reduced care, depending on how old your kids are. I don’t think I would want to work in childcare permanently, but you literally can’t take your work home.

      Reply ↓
  44. pally*

    I think I’d ask that manager to SHOW me how the work can be completed within the 8-hour day.

    But more importantly, take steps to get out of there!

    Is it possible to issue a resume to a temp service(s) to find something interim that is more normal, and allows you to have an income flow while looking for something permanent?

    Reply ↓
    1. Ellis Bell*

      That’s a pretty good idea. I think, while it’s easy for us to insist OP set hard boundaries, sometimes it helps more to hear what that sounds like, looks like, and what to actually do about it when the boss who controls your livelihood says “no” and “hell no”. I think OP has to consider and be okay with the risk of getting fired, IF they’ve decided it’s a desperate enough situation to stay; just behave like you’re professionally past it, OP. Like you’re not that invested in impressing the boss/keeping your job (even if you are) because of the horrendous conditions you’re going to describe. So, I’d start my script list with your example, pally: “I haven’t found that to be possible, but if you can show me how to do this during my seven hour shift tomorrow, I would be able to replicate whatever it is you’re doing differently after that” or “I can only think of two reasons why I’m not more efficient; one is that it’s not possible, the other is that we’re overworked to the point of illness and exhaustion. I’ll be more productive now I’ve decided to start working regular hours effective immediately” or “Honestly, given that this job doesn’t pay me enough to stay x hours per day, I have to start calling it a a day at 4pm. You can have as much input on priorities during working hours, but I can’t and won’t continue working for free”. “I’m sorry but that’s as much as is humanly possible in x hours, and I have other responsibilities now. Goodnight”. “It’s unfortunate you feel this way, but reasonable hours and conditions are the only way I’m willing to remain in the job”

      Reply ↓
  46. Lacey*

    I know being fired feels like the worst thing that can happen, but honestly, when you’ve been working for a highly stressful, toxic company (and yours is so much worse than mine was) the period of unemployment is kinda soothing – even though it’s also stressful to look for a new job.

    But you will find a new job, one that doesn’t exploit you this way, and it will be fine.

    And in the meantime, you’ll have unemployment money, which while it will be less overall, will work out to a better hourly rate than you’ve been getting for sure!

    Set that boundery and don’t back down! Let them fire you!

    Reply ↓
  47. Resentful Oreos*

    I say it’s better to be fired than quit, for the reason Alison offered – you can collect unemployment if you are fired, unless the company can *prove* you are fired “for cause” (meaning stuff like kicking your coworker or punching a wall, “for cause” has to be very concrete). I live in a super worker friendly state, luckily. I hope LW does too.

    Drop the rope, LW, just work your eight hours and let the chips fall where they may. This isn’t 2008 anymore. Employers have still not gotten over being spoiled rotten during the Great Recession, because things were so bad that workers would be grateful to be “allowed” to work themselves into illness. I say they need a sharp lesson on how it’s not 2008 anymore, a lot of Baby Boomers are retiring so there are fewer workers, and they’re going to have to start treating the ones they have more like human beings.

    Reply ↓
  48. Academic Librarian Too*

    This situation is wrong and not sustainable. Clock in, clock out. Malicous compliance- Document. Go home- play with the kids, revise your resume, look for other work.
    I was in a situation just like this one years ago. It was never a good time to take off, be sick, etc etc.
    You know what? A negative performance eval from these people will not affect your life one iota.
    Not meeting unreasonable deadlines- will not affect your life one iota.
    Getting fired sucks but your situation right no sucks worse.
    Deep breathes and remind yourself that right now you are trading time for money. (and health insurance) Detach.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Heck, meet the deadlines by handing in terrible work. Hand stuff in at the deadline even if you’re still waiting for information from someone else and put that in the deliverable. If they want 87 tasks done a week, do them to whatever quality you can in those 40 hours and go home.

      Reply ↓
  49. Sassafras*

    Just start working less hours. Don’t give them the word salad suggested here about your family and mental health, they’ll just use that against you.

    Talk to your coworker and agree that you are leaving at 4:30 pm today and will do so everyday going forward. Then just start doing this. If your coworker caves just stick to your plan anyway.

    Here are some scripts when they push back:
    It’s unacceptable to leave without work being done!

    I can’t stay past 4:30pm. Send me the priority list and I’ll focus on those tomorrow.

    Everything is a priority!
    OK I’ll keep my same prioritization.

    No I need you to finish this today!
    I won’t be able to finish X, Y, and Z today.

    It’s unacceptable to not finish your work!
    At this point no response is required. They are repeating themselves and there is no point in arguing. Just go home.

    The next day:
    That was unacceptable!
    It’s not feasible for me to work past 4:30 going forward. What do you want me to prioritize?

    You need to be more efficient!
    I welcome your advice on effeciencies I can take, what specific processes should I adjust?

    Just be more efficient and finish all your work!
    Well if you ever have any specifics let me know because I’m working as efficiently as I know how.

    Then just ignore the feedback and grumblings. Show up. Work hard and don’t let the blustering bother you. They are severely understaffed and know it.

    Signed – Someone who did exactly this when I was furloughed in 2020 and heavily pressured to work off the clock. Ignore the grumblings. Work your wage. Go home. Job search in the interim. I was never fired and when I did get a new job they begged me to stay despite months of “It’s unacceptable you aren’t finishing all your work!” blustering.

    Reply ↓
  50. Iron Violet*

    Them claiming you “have” to stay until everything is done every day, even if you’re waiting on responses? They could claim you “have” to come to work dressed entirely in banana peels; that doesn’t mean you have to or should say yes!

    Reply ↓
  51. Sophie the Hatter*

    Be careful in assuming you can collect unemployment!!

    A company this bad might claim they fired you for cause, in which case you would be ineligible for unemployment.

    This would be ridiculous and unfair, but it does happen. (It happened to me.)

    Reply ↓
    2. Resentful Oreos*

      The company has to prove cause. Which usually means someone taking off work and showing up at a hearing, and the bosses here don’t seem the type.

      Reply ↓
    3. Observer*

      A company this bad might claim they fired you for cause, in which case you would be ineligible for unemployment.

      They can claim whatever they want. If the LW can document what was going on, they won’t win. I’ve seen it happen.

      Reply ↓
    4. ChattyDelle*

      then you file an appeal
      I was fired once for a mistake (yes it was a 15k mistake but it was a mistake.) I got unemployment
      I was fired for saying something stupid (I did it, it was stupid & I have never forgiven myself). it was a one time lapse in judgement and I got unemployment.
      OP, your situation is hell. please listen to Alison and all these very smart people and say no. leave at 5. document everything (off site) and let them fire you.
      and follow up with us!! we’re rooting for you

      Reply ↓
  52. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

    Worst Boss of the Year nominee?

    Seriously though, LW: get out get out get out get ouuuuuut.

    Reply ↓
  53. Mouse named Anon*

    Don’t continue working like this for them at all. Full stop. It stops today if you haven’t already.

    I saw this quote on Tiktok (can’t remember the creator)
    “The company’s inability to fully staff our department is not my problem”

    Now if you can swing it LEAVE. It will not get better. I have worked a job like this and it was awful. I gained 40lbs in 6 months and mental health was awful.

    Reply ↓
  54. Parenthesis Guy*

    I’m curious about where you’re working. If you’re working in finance or biglaw or a field where working 80 hour weeks is common then what’s happening to you would make more sense. They pay huge bucks for a reason and expect this from their employees. If you’re working in a field where 40-50 hour weeks are the norm, then this is bad news. Is your manager in the office 80 hours a week or just you?

    Presuming this isn’t the case, then your manager should be trying to help you at least get through your work to at least show you how it could be done and that your workload is manageable. If it’s because you’re not being efficient, the manager should be able to show you how to get faster. Or they should take pity on you and lay you off.

    If you’re in a field where 80 hour weeks are normal – as is getting paid $300-400k then this is what you signed up for. Otherwise, it’s time to get out.

    Reply ↓
  55. sympathetic*

    OP, I’m so sorry this is happening. I’m feeling sick just reading it, as I just stepped down to part time due to health issues from overworking. I was doing the jobs of 2.5 full time employees (while dealing with a complex trauma situation), because when people quit (the company is revolving door), they didn’t replace them; they just gave the work to the rest of us (me, mostly), without any additional compensation.

    I’m down to 1.25 full time jobs on part time hours and am trying to learn to stop pushing myself so hard. I’ll be searching for other jobs soon.

    Everyone else has given excellent advice, so I will defer to the prior responses, and just say that this job isn’t worth your health. It took me far too long to understand that for myself. Also, please take Alison’s advice about determining whether you are truly exempt. That could be a major game changer for you. It’s worth looking into.

    Please update us when you can.

    Reply ↓
  56. 653-CXK*

    When I began ExJob nearly 30 years ago, my pay was low and I felt I had to prove myself by taking lots of overtime. This continued until about two years before I was let go, when I got fed up of coming home late at night to go back to work hours later, falling asleep at my desk (and later being diagnosed with sleep apnea), and constantly being anxious. And of course, the company added more work to my job without adding additional compensation beyond the OT.

    So, I stopped doing overtime, stuck to my scheduled hours, and while the world didn’t fall apart, setting boundaries didn’t sit well with the muck-a-mucks happy with their “just how we like it and how we want them” world. (It wasn’t part of why I was let go.)

    Leave this company as soon as possible, OP. Get away from this cultish “clean plate” work mentality that your boss has. Get your sanity and time back with a job that actually respects your boundaries (and of course, pays better too).

    Reply ↓
  57. CJames*

    If you can then try and get some of your “negotiations” on email and BCC your personal email address on those exchanges. When you have face to face conversations, immediately after email them with a summary of what was discussed, also BCC this to your personal email.

    You may never need these records but best to have them.

    Reply ↓
  58. Craig*

    If you can then try and get some of your “negotiations” on email and BCC your personal email address on those exchanges. When you have face to face conversations, immediately after email them with a summary of what was discussed, also BCC this to your personal email.

    You may never need these records but best to have them.

    Reply ↓
  59. Chocolate Teapot*

    Echoing everyone on here who says you need to get out as soon as possible.

    Good luck, and I hope we get a positive update soon.

    Reply ↓
  61. MissMuffett*

    I would love to know if the bosses are also working like this? Maybe they are – this sounds very smart-up-mentality to me. But hopefully they aren’t expecting OP and remaining coworker to do what they aren’t doing themselves, at a minimum.
    I do also worry that this org sounds too small to have FMLA apply to it (some good suggestions for using that above). OP you may want to see if any state FMLA-like policies might apply to you. I loved the idea of a medical/exhaustion leave for a couple of weeks and using that to apply.

    Reply ↓
  63. WellRed*

    The one thing I don’t see: have you tried going outside of your department to say this is happening? Maybe it’s a company wide dysfunction but don’t discount a rogue, abusive department. I still think you need to leave regardless of how all this shakes out but it’s worth considering, at least to buy you time to job search.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      This is a great question. Is the whole organization dysfunctional (it sounds like yes, unfortunately), or is there anyone reasonable with some power who could help deal with this nightmare?

      Reply ↓
  65. Apples2Apples*

    OP Here with an update: :)

    First off, thank you to Alyson for responding to my question. I was obviously in a low place when I wrote in and I also really appreciate the supportive comments.

    First off the update: my colleague and I did as suggested and said we could no longer work these hours. We were told they “understood” but “couldn’t put in place fixes immediately” but we did manage to log off at more reasonable hours for a couple weeks (however I was still pinged over the weekend on my birthday with an “urgent question” BUT I did not respond until the following day in an effort to set boundaries. Then out of the blue we started getting grilled on our budgets and as it turns out, there was some financial issues and they laid off about 10% of the staff including my colleague and myself. This came out of the blue for a lot of people who were quite upset, but my colleague and I both had a huge sense of relief to be out of there. A few days later we heard they eliminated my department completely and my manager was demoted which felt like some karmic justice.

    I have never been laid off before but I am immensely grateful for it. While it’s not a great financial position to be in (2 kids means we need 2 incomes and is a big reason why I put up with this situation to the point I did) I’m hitting the job search running and already have 2 interviews scheduled. I also am taking the time to volunteer at my kids schools which feels great considering they had been seeing a lot less of me. The big lesson I’m taking from this experience is to set boundaries early. While I do work in an industry that requires some late hours/has urgent deadlines it will never again come at the expense of my family and mental/physical health.

    Thanks again Alyson for the publication and support. I’m very excited for a new chapter!

    Reply ↓
    1. Elbe*

      I’m so sorry that you were laid off, but I’m glad you’re out of there!

      In a situation where an employer is this shameless about fixing their financial issues by running employees into the ground, it’s better to be the one let go. I hope that your job search goes well and that you’re able to find a good fit with a reasonable company.

      Reply ↓
    2. HonorBox*

      Thank you for sharing, OP. While the financial outcome isn’t perfect, I’m glad you’re already interviewing. Best wishes!

      Reply ↓
    3. Observer*

      Please make sure to apply for unemployment. It’s not great, but every little bit helps.

      As for why you got laid off, you have a good story without having to get into the toxic work culture. Your department was eliminated. You might want to add that your understanding is there were some financial issues involved. (Or not.)

      It’s sad that being laid off was a relief (because no job should be that bad). But it is *great* that you are dealing well with it, and using the time to regenerate.

      Lots of luck on the job hunt.

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Exactly this. The organization was doing some restructuring and your department got eliminated. Interviewers probably won’t have follow-up questions on that.

        Reply ↓
    4. Lady Lessa*

      Hi, Apples,

      Glad that you are out. If the job hunting takes too much out of you, while you are recovering, I found that working at a literature distribution center was good for my ego. (I had run out of unemployment insurance time). I was praised for what my previous employer said I didn’t have.

      Reply ↓
    5. Hlao-roo*

      Thanks for the update! Echoing everyone else, I’m glad to hear that you and your colleague were able to set some boundaries and that you’re out of there. Good luck on your upcoming interviews!

      Reply ↓
    6. Apples2Apples*

      Me again — Also I would love to update the above to Alison* but not seeing an option to edit my comment.

      Reply ↓
    7. Mouse named Anon*

      I am glad to here you are out of there. I am wishing the best of luck when looking for a new job. I had a job very similar to yours workload wise. I made sure to ask a ton of questions about working hour expectations, work load, work life balance etc. I think it really helped filter out some bad apples. I had some managers straight up tell me they work a ton overtime. I declined a further interview, bc i wasn’t what i was interested in.

      Reply ↓
    8. Resentful Oreos*

      I’m sorry you were laid off, but this does mean you get severance, hopefully, and/or unemployment! It also means you can job search like it IS your job without having to squeeze it in an unreasonable schedule.

      Karmic justice indeed for your manager! And it sounds like maybe the manager was trying, very ineptly, to deal with how to get work done when there is no money to do it with. But still, he was terrible and justice is sweet.

      Definitely set boundaries sooner rather than later!

      And good luck in the job search!

      Reply ↓
  66. Observer*

    LW, when you start looking for another job – and you should do that regardless of whether your job stops abusing you for the moment – you have a perfect answer to why you are looking.

    “I saw signs that the company was not financially viable.”

    It’s true. There are no really good reasons for what the company is doing to you. One common reason is that there are money problems, and they think that they can get out of that by trying to get 24×7 work out of people rather than paying more staff. Which doesn’t work, but that’s not your problem. Or they are just *terrible* managers whose greed and lack of humanity is getting in the way of simple good management sense. And that’s *also* a signal that there are serious financial problems to come (if they don’t already exist).

    Reply ↓
  67. La Contessa*

    Depending on your salary, you may be making somewhere in the neighborhood of minimum wage. Surely you can find something interim that will meet the immediate needs of your family while you’re able to find something with a better work/life balance. I wish you the best of luck–you don’t deserve what you’re going through now.

    Reply ↓
  68. Setting Boundaries*

    OP – Your situation is eerily similar to mine, even right down to getting horribly ill and not feeling like I could take sick days.

    The only chance of this working out is if you set boundaries, full stop. Your company probably wont like it, but honestly – they have already shown you who they are. They don’t care about you, or your health, or the impact it has on your personal life. And I agree with Allison – you need to focus your time and energy on getting the heck outta there.

    I gave, and gave and gave to my current company to the point where it impacted my health and relationships. I am dealing with key partners who are unreasonable and keep piling work on me. We have been told we cant hire additional help.

    I started setting boundaries on my time and effort. It has gotten a lot better and I am way less stressed. I finally realized that no matter what i do, whether it is working 12+ hours a day, or “going above and beyond” – nothing was going to make my company or partners happy. There are long standing issues between my team and these partners that have nothing to do with me, and no matter what I do, my work will never be good enough because frankly – no one’s work is good enough for this team.

    I have made peace with that they may let me go. And I am okay with that. Im financially prepared if that happens. I have the support of my spouse as well. This workplace isnt a good fit for me and I have to keep searching for a place that will appreciate me and respect me as a human being.

    Reply ↓
  69. NotRealAnonForThis*

    Oh hey, do you work for my OldBoss? Because it sure sounds like you do.

    So let me give you a head’s up: you can set boundaries and act as though your boss will be reasonable, but you need to start looking for a new job immediately. Because even if he seems reasonable about your boundaries…you’re going to be out the door within 6 months regardless, so do it on your terms. So start looking.

    (And I say this all with the hope that everything does turn out the best for you, LW, truly I do.)

    Reply ↓
  71. Elbe*

    I was also in a similar situation (working long hours but couldn’t quit), and this is how I would handle it again today.

    1) If your coworkers are job searching, you need to be, too. You do not want to be the one left when the workload goes up even higher. Job search, even if that means enlisting friends and family to help (either with job searching tasks they are able to do for you, or with household and miscellaneous tasks that could free up your time) and reducing work input, even to the point where your manager is upset with you. Even managers who seem invested in the “get the work done before you leave” mindset know that they are asking too much of you, and finding a brand new person to agree to those hours will be difficult.

    2) Get your doctor to help. If you are working so much that you are having health problems, talk to your doctor about a formal diagnosis of exhaustion or another ailment that could allow you to have workplace accommodations. This could keep your job safe while you job search.

    3) Push back as a group. They know they can’t afford to lose anyone, let alone everyone.

    4) Be prepared to lose your job. Companies exploiting workers to this extent could be caused by particularly callous management, but it also is likely that the company is experiencing significant financial strain. If the company is in dire straits, they’re not going to say that – they will instead insist that what they’re asking is normal. If the company has serious cashflow problems, you could just as easily lose your job, anyway, even if you put in health-ruining amounts of effort.

    Reply ↓
  72. Sharon*

    If you continue to handle an unreasonable workload and meet all deadlines, you will be rewarded with more unreasonable workloads and deadlines. Management needs to feel the problem or they won’t solve it. Work a normal amount of hours. (Also, if they can’t handle you taking a sick day, they probably can’t handle letting you go.)

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  73. Anne Shirley Blythe*

    Agree. LW, check the rules about unemployment in your state. In mine, you can get unemployment if you quit, but there is a delay. In the meantime, DOCUMENT the abuse and forward relevant work emails to your personal account. Should you have to quit, it may help your case if you demonstrate the working requirements became, well, unbearable, frankly! Good luck. Please update us.

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  74. Who knows*

    Here’s a comparison that might be helpful:
    I’ve worked 12 years in a job where we’re constantly told “you’re expected to work extra hours to meet important deadlines.”

    You know how many times I’ve *actually* had to work more than 40 hours in a week to do this?
    Twice. In 12 years. And both times, I was able to flex the time and work less the following week.

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  75. Anne Shirley Blythe*

    Once you are well and truly out and receiving unemployment, consider posting on Glassdoor to save others from the same fate. This rotten employer may very well choose to repeat the cycle with unsuspecting new people, rather than address the issue. Just dispassionately state the facts–pretend you are a reporter.

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    1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

      The broad facts, that is. I’m not saying you have to have to describe the minute details of your personal situation–just get the point across that the expected availability of employees and the workload are extremely unreasonable.

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