did I scare off a new member of our professional organization?

by Alison Green on February 18, 2025

A reader writes:

This isn’t for my job, but it’s for a nonprofit organization related to my career that involves some level of professionalism. I’m afraid that I scared off a new member by coming on too strong to her.

I volunteer at a STEM-related organization that mentors children. My position is at the state level, and a new person just joined at the group level. I met her for the first time at a regular group meeting.

I’ll admit, I’m really attracted to her, but I still wanted to get to know her regardless of whether or not she’s interested. She’s the only other woman I know who’s in my field with some of the same interests I have, and she’s incredibly driven and smart. But I only got to see her for an hour, so I had no real chance to get to know her.

She put her number into my phone, and when I texted my name to her, it showed up on her screen. Here are the texts I’ve sent her since:

[Day we met, T+0]
[STEM-related meme]
Hey just wanted to say it was great meeting you tonight :)

Have you been to Teapot Museum by any chance?

[T+1]
The one by [location]?

[T+3]
Hey! Can I call you sometime today? Because there have been some new policies that Organization wants to implement that I’m worried could affect what you want to teach at Teapot Group.

[T+6]
Hi! Just wanted to let you know that Cool Teapot Event is happening on [date] that the kids might want to know about!

All these text messages were labeled as “delivered” until T+8, when they all went to “read.” She didn’t reply to any of them.

I had also found her on LinkedIn and sent a (still pending) request on T+9 (I haven’t done this with other members). On T+10, I invited her to a monthly Teams meeting that I schedule for our group, and she still hasn’t sent an RSVP. On T+12, I called and left a voicemail about future lessons. I’m writing this letter to you on T+14.

I didn’t think much of it at first because she has a job and a master’s program that she’s probably busy with, but to not reply to any of my attempts to reach out? And although none of these are urgent, everything I sent her is related to our organization. Why wouldn’t she have replied at some point? (At this point, I’m also worried that she might not reply if there *is* something urgent.) I can understand forgetting to text back, but there were multiple chances to interact. Not to mention that our organization’s state conference is next month, and I don’t know if she knows about it. (On her end, it’s an opportunity for her to meet other members and learn things about the organization, but also a chance for me to hang out with her again.)

Did I scare her off? Can I still reach out to her?

Nooooo, do not reach out to her again! This is way too much contact when it’s not being returned.

Really, you should have stopped after the second text (the one asking if she’d been to the museum). At that point things were in her court, and continuing to contact her was much too pushy.

There are all kinds of reasons why she might not have responded. Maybe she’s really busy with other things in her life. Maybe she’s not a big texter. Maybe she meant to respond initially but forgot, and then got put off by how many texts accumulated after that. Maybe she picked up on your interest and doesn’t return it and didn’t want to engage for that reason. Maybe she thought, “Whoa, I just attended one meeting of this group to check it out and now I’m being inundated by an amount of contact I didn’t sign up for and which is disproportionate to my level of involvement.”

What’s most interesting to me about your letter is that you have reached out to her eight separate times (!) without any response from her without realizing you needed to stop, and you’re still considering reaching out again! If the roles were reversed — let’s say you went to a meeting of a professional organization and someone you met there texted you six separate times over 10 days without any response from you, then tried to connect on LinkedIn, then left you a voicemail, wouldn’t that feel awfully aggressive and crowding? Like that was a level of investment from them that wasn’t warranted by the existing (minimal) relationship?

I am sorry to say, there is a pretty high likelihood you have scared her off from the organization (or, well, from you). You definitely should not contact her again. You do not need to inform her about the state conference next month. If there is something urgent that she must be contacted about, someone else from the organization should do it, not you (although I’m skeptical that will come up since she has only ever attended a single meeting and may not even remain involved).

You mentioned seeing the state conference as a chance to hang out with her again, but at this point you should assume that won’t happen … and if she does show up there or to another meeting (the chances of which may be quite low now), the only thing you should do is to give her a large amount of space. Do not approach her, and do not go out of your way to try to talk to her. Don’t freeze her out either, since it will make things even more uncomfortable if you seem like you’re upset; smile and say hello if you encounter her, but then leave her alone, to demonstrate that she doesn’t need to worry about you continuing to crowd her.

If by some chance she is interested in getting to know you better (let’s say she was in a coma through all these messages and was delighted to find them when she awoke), your interest in getting to know her has already been made clear and she can approach you. But unless that happens, you really, really need to leave her alone from now on.

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{ 364 comments }

{ 364 comments… read them below or add one }

      1. C*

        OP is clearly trying to ask this person on a date and using the nonprofit as an excuse. Definitely creepy and unprofessional.

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        1. umami*

          That’s precisely how it comes across! Unfortunately. I would not expect her to show up at this nonprofit again, that is an overwhelming number of times to be contacted when you are a new member, even without the underlying subtext.

          Reply ↓
            1. Distracted Librarian*

              Exactly. Even if he hadn’t mentioned finding her attractive, it would be way, way obvious from his behavior–and the excessive contact would send me running far, far away from this organization.

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        2. Meep*

          I actually went back and forth on if OP wanted a date or was just oblivious. Love my sister-in-law to pieces, but she has been warned and then eventually fired from a couple of jobs for making her coworkers uncomfortable by being too personal. I could see her doing something like this and just not realizing how out of line it was.

          Either way 100% out of line after the Museum message.

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          1. Dido*

            LW explicitly wrote that she’s attracted to this woman. she’s clearly harassing her because of her romantic interest

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    2. Snarkus Aurelius*

      No you’re on point here.

      I went on two dates with a guy. I was in a two hour meeting the night after our second date. When I came out, I had over a dozen text messages from him, starting with asking what I was doing that night and ending with I must not be interested in him because I wasn’t responding to him.

      I was on the fence about him, but that exchange pushed me over. I blocked him immediately. It was scary.

      I’m reminded of him today.

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      1. wfh_addict*

        And you had at least been on two dates with that guy — not just happened to attend a single meeting of the same organization!

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    4. Beth*

      Yeah, unfortunately this is not an overreaction.

      OP, I get that you were excited to meet this woman. Going off of “I was incredibly attracted to her” plus “She’s the only other woman in my field who…”, it sounds like you’re gay (hi, me too!). For many of us, meeting someone in the wild (vs on an app) who is attractive, shares our interests, and seems off the bat like they might be interested (she put her number in your phone) is rare!

      But you went way, way too hard here. When you’re connecting to a new person, whether in friendship or romantically or professionally, you need to look for a pattern of equal-ish reciprocation. If you send a message or two, and they don’t reply (or, worse, don’t even read it), that’s a sign that they either don’t have interest or don’t have space for you right now.

      When someone’s not reciprocating and you keep pushing, you will scare them off. In your crush’s shoes, I wouldn’t come back to your group because I’d assume you’d start pestering me again–you’ve shown that when it comes to her, you can’t read the room well enough to be around her and be chill. It does turn into harassment at some point. If you run into her again (in your group or elsewhere), you need to let her be and follow her lead, not take it as a sign that you’re reconnecting.

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      1. JSPA*

        Seconding that just because it feels like kismet or the stars aligning for one person, doesn’t create ANY requirement that the other person feels anything positive at all.

        And using an organization as a dating app is intrinsically not just crossing streams, but warping them. (It’s borderline coercive to use “think of the kids” to push “come hang with me.”)

        In my oblivious youth some decades ago, I did some of this (having seen it normalized?) and as an adult I’ve been on the receiving end, and had to retroactively give myself a few kicks for not having understood how crappy I’d been (while steering clear of the people who were crushing on me).

        It doesn’t just mess with one person, either. Other people in your organization can get drawn into the drama. (I had someone I barely knew chew out an old friend in her org for being “skeevy” and “patriarchal” and “entitled” because he greeted me with an entirely welcome hug…as we’d done for a decade.) And also, word gets out, and people steer clear.

        OP, a lot of people will tell you you’re not entitled to this woman’s time.

        I’m here to tell you that even for entirely self-interested reasons, you need to up your professionalism and slow your roll way down, because you’re not going to get women in the organization if word gets out that the only woman there has leaky professional and personal boundaries.

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    5. ThatGirl*

      I have some degree of sympathy for the LW, because I have been in situations where I met someone I really liked and wanted to get to know them better and perhaps been a bit overeager. But yeah, she went overboard.

      Reply ↓
    6. Productivity Pigeon*

      I would’ve felt incredibly uncomfortable if I was at the receiving end of this.

      I originally misread it as OP having gotten a couple of responses which made it kinda understandable. But no response at all?

      Nope. Not okay.

      Reply ↓
    7. T.N.H*

      The way this is explained, the OP feels that she’s owed contact, especially if she’s upset that she didn’t get any reply at all. It’s completely normal to meet people at networking events and never hear from them again! The OP also needs a bit of a reframe around the “urgent” part of this. There’s just no scenario where she would absolutely need to get in touch.

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      1. Starbuck*

        Yes, this seemed odd to me also: “(At this point, I’m also worried that she might not reply if there *is* something urgent.) ”

        What could possibly be so urgent for a brand new lower level member that she’d need to reply to you about? This is really inappropriate.

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        1. goddessoftransitory*

          It’s one of the things people tell themselves to “reasonably” contact somebody for the tenth time.

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      1. Andromeda*

        It would, or at least should. Some kind of interest in getting to know her socially is pretty apparent, and even if the aim was just to be friends this is still way too much. Some people might dismiss it because it’s two women but if it were two men those same people probably would see it as creepy.

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      4. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        The recipient isn’t privy to that information, only to the text messages.

        Being bombarded in this way looks like a romantic approach whether it is so intended or not. Muting the chat is a rejection of that romantic approach, again whether it was intentional or not.

        Reply ↓
      5. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        It would come across as a hard sell for OP’s organization and the question for OP would be, is this how the organization wants to be represented, wants to find new members, want to create a buzz?
        Unless the organization is selling high quality, pre used automobiles with predatory loans, I’m guessing no.
        The, “what if she doesn’t reply to something urgent”? is exactly the type of manipulation that spammers, smishers and phishers use. “We have an update about our next event. You need to reply immediately if you are interested!” Again, do not imagine OP’s organization wants to use this type of communication.
        The “I’m attracted to” and “another chance to see me” are so far outside professional norms, OP, you sound like a creeper who refuses to take a hint.

        Reply ↓
        1. goddessoftransitory*

          I’m getting bombarded lately with scam emails (don’t worry, I delete without opening them) using this technique. “The account you don’t have is about to expire, you MUST send your card information immediately!” Like, ten in a row, day after day, and looping back from “going to expire” to “is expired” like an ouroboros of shadiness. It’s clear it’s a bot simply locking onto my account, but man, if that was a person I’d be calling the cops.

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        2. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

          I am male and not subject to being hit on all the time. I would find op’s messages quite aggressive and off putting. One that stood out to me in particular was the request to jump on a call same-day to supposedly discuss some merely proposed changes that might theoretically affect me. Furthermore, when someone I barely know sends me a second follow-up asking why I haven’t responded, I just block them and move on.

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      7. Yellow*

        I’d feel the same. I once went to an intro class at a Pilates studio, and they sent me like 6 texts, 5 emails and called me like 4 times in the week that followed. It was a great way to ensure I’d never be back.
        There may be some people out there that enjoy that level of communication- be it in a freindship, relationship or a fitness studio (lol), but the subject of this letter (and myself) are clearly not those people.

        Reply ↓
        1. LifeisaDream*

          Yep, one of our vendors offered me tickets to a trade show, it had been cancelled for 2 years because of Covid so it was a big deal. He sent me the tickets and I mentioned that I was the only one attending. Then I got an offer from them to carpool (the trade show was 2 hours away) I declined. At the trade show I kept getting texts to meet up at the llama booth, then the guac booth, an invitation for drinks, no, I’m driving, another text to meet up to say goodbye before I left. They took a reasonable business relationship and turned it into something else.

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      8. Lisa*

        In that case it would still be pushy, inappropriate, and harassing. The fact that they disclosed that they are attracted to them makes it also possibly creepy.

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      9. fhqwhgads*

        I completely missed that bit of the letter, and still read it that way. I only realized they said it when I read other comments noting that.
        So yeah, they said the quiet part outloud, but it was obvious anyway.

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      10. Ellis Bell*

        I actually thought that was a good sign (before I read the texts) and thought “Oh, OP is aware that showing their feelings of attraction can be a scarecrow, so I bet the texts were carefully done and they’re just being paranoid”. But, no. They were OTT. Even if the recipient didn’t pick up on feelings of attraction (which is something women are usually very good at), it still would have felt very spammy, or like I was expected to be the group’s new messiah or something. It’s A Lot.

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      11. Nesprin*

        “Hey Person, whose number I have due to professional interests, do you like museums?” is going to come off wrong no matter the situation.

        If someone gives you their number/contact for a volunteer thing, you should contact them for the volunteer thing only.

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    10. Constance Lloyd*

      The persistence alone made me so uncomfortable I actually stopped reading and skipped ahead to Alison’s response a few times. I had to consciously make myself go back to finish.

      Reply ↓
    11. JustCuz*

      This type of behavior demonstrates a certain level of entitlement to a stranger’s time and space. I think that’s why it gives that ick feeling. It is one sided and not considering the other party’s point of view.

      Its ok to be excited about things, but being this excited about a person you met for a couple minutes can trigger serious alarm bells in the other person. Women are keenly sensed in particular to ignore and avoid boundary-crossing entitlement from others as it can lead to serious consequences if engaged in, and that is why she is probably never going to respond and why OP needs to stay away from this lady.

      I would also recommend that OP spend more time thinking about how their actions are perceived and how they can effect others. Like, its not just being annoying – it registers as problematic and boundary crossing.

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      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        I also feel bad for the woman if she is spending any time at all wondering what SHE did to indicate to OP that her interest was in anything other than the organization’s work, women in the field and the field itself.

        Reply ↓
        1. Dido*

          it sounds like OP wildly misinterpreted the other woman giving her her number as a sign of interest. What OP didn’t realize is that straight women aren’t used to getting hit on by other woman at professional events and that the other woman probably put a lot less thought into giving OP her number than she would if OP were a man because she didn’t expect that OP had romantic interest and would end up harassing her like this

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    14. LaminarFlow*

      I wouldn’t want to be part of this organization, and I would contact the people who are in charge of the organization to tell them why I’m backing off.

      This type of behavior is creepy, unsettling, and unprofessional.

      Reply ↓
  2. T.N.H*

    I have been on the receiving end of something like this. In my case, I realized at the meeting the org wasn’t a good fit. I otherwise would have responded but it felt awkward to say “hey, you seemed alright but I think your org is doing unethical things.” Please let it go!

    Reply ↓
    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, I was thinking that the silence might not have anything to do with OP but rather with the organisation itself. OP’s attempts at contact certainly aren’t helping in that regard, though!

      Reply ↓
      1. Observer*

        Well, the *original* silence could have gone either way. But the fact that she put him on “read” is a real tell that it is now also about the OP. And at this point, I would think that no matter what the original reason was, at this point she would probably be avoiding the OP no matter what she thought of the organization.

        Reply ↓
        1. Beth*

          There’s not in this case–OP knows it’s her real number because when they exchanged numbers, OP got her number and texted back OP’s name, and saw the message pop up on her screen.

          That doesn’t change that the follow-up is inappropriate–I would’ve been scared off around text 3, when OP started asking for calls out of the blue. But at a minimum, this person was down to connect when they traded numbers.

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          1. Zahav*

            Disagree that they were down to connect.
            I have 100% given my number to a person who creeped me out and was pushy about getting it so that I could a)end the interaction safely and b) screen out their calls.

            Reply ↓
        2. I just really can’t think of a name*

          I think it’s kind of creepy that the letter writer knows it wasn’t a fake number because they immediately texted and watched to make sure it went through. To me, that behavior screams “I am super aggressive and so used to people trying to fend me off with fake numbers, that now I check.” (And maybe it was actually a mutual exchange with no pressure, but that detail triggered my Spidey senses.)

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          1. goddessoftransitory*

            That’s straight out of the PUA playbooks: “text right away to make sure she’s not giving you fake digits!” Creepsville.

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          2. Yorick*

            I didn’t think this was what LW did – she probably just texted back so they would have her number as well. But LW is doing that spiral where you wonder if your phone is broken, if you really have their correct phone number, etc. and that experience lets her know the phone number is correct.

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          3. metadata minion*

            Is this not a usual thing to do? I pretty much always send a text right after getting someone’s number. Among other things, that just seems more efficient so that they have my number from the text rather than having to add it manually.

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          4. Jojo*

            Yeah, that was where things started to go off the rails for me as well. Before I realized that OP was a woman, as soon as I read that OP texted immediately and checked to make sure OP had given a correct number I was pretty much, “Oh, it’s this dude again.”

            OP, if you are reading the comments, my guess is you aren’t feeling all that great at the moment. I’m guessing you really want a relationship with someone who you are attracted to and who shares similar interests with. I mean, who doesn’t? But I’d advise you to take this as lesson about how to handle things going forward, so the next time, you don’t over do it.

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    2. Not Cool*

      Not that it changes the advice, but I’m pretty sure the writer is a woman, not a dude. She said that “she is the only other woman in my field”.

      Reply ↓
      1. ArchivesPony*

        To be fair, I’m a woman and have called other women, dude. So have many of my women friends. Could be we were born and raised in the western US which it was a much more common gender neutral term but although I’m getting better at it, I still do it (not in a demeaning manner, more like, “dude, don’t do that”)

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    3. Stephanie Tanner*

      I think OP is a woman (basing this on the phrasing of “the only other woman” in the field. I could be wrong though!

      Reply ↓
        1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          Same advice though. Your professional organization is not a place to find people to date. She was there to find out about the organization, not for you to hit on.

          OP you say you would be interested in this person anyway, but really if you weren’t attracted and trying so hard to make a connection would you really be counting how many days it was since first meeting? And sending multiple messages over those days?

          Reply ↓
        2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          Definitely creepy (I say this as a gay woman), but “dude” is gendered male for many people, which is what prompted the comment.

          Reply ↓
      2. RIP Pillowfort*

        I didn’t read it as a woman. Just that the woman they met was the only other women they knew in the field.

        In my field, there’s a big gender imbalance so I only know 10 women in the field professionally in my area where as I know over 100 guys. Could still be a woman, I just didn’t get that vibe.

        Reply ↓
        1. Aquamarine*

          It’s the use of “other” in that sentence. I think that means the only other woman besides me – because I don’t know who else other would refer to.

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      3. KateM*

        If OP is a woman there is a chance that the other woman took it as OP being too overjoyed to find another woman in the field. If OP is a man then without doubt he is just yet another in the string of creeps.

        Reply ↓
          1. Totally Minnie*

            And if you’re a straight woman getting this barrage of messaging from a woman you suspect is interested in you in a way you are not capable of reciprocating, it’s super uncomfortable.

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            1. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

              I don’t the recipient’s orientation is in any way relevant. The barrage of messaging is equally a problem no matter what her orientation might be.

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              1. Starbuck*

                Yeah, and honestly someone I’m not attracted to being pushy like this feels bad either way, whether I’m not attracted to them because of my orientation or just plain unsuitableness doesn’t make much difference.

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                1. Totally Minnie*

                  You’re right, it’s not okay regardless. I feel like the extent to which the recipient’s orientation matters is kind of rolled into how quickly this communication escalated. LW is barreling ahead here and not stopping to consider literally anything about this woman, and it feels like LW hasn’t considered any possible explanation at all for why her crush isn’t responding to her messages.

                  If it were me and I’d been texting a guy I didn’t know well and he wasn’t responding, I’d like to think that by the second or third text I’d start to think things like “maybe he’s not into me/maybe I’m reading things into our interaction that weren’t really there/maybe he’s not into women at all/oh shoot I’ve seriously overstepped here, haven’t I?”

                  It’s a minor thing, but it’s just one more step in the process of things you should consider before pursuing a person romantically that LW doesn’t seem to have thought about.

              3. The Kulprit*

                Agreed. Also queer and weird, but that is just *way* too much contact. At this point I would not care what OP wanted with me, I’m not engaging any further.

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            2. sookie st james*

              The person’s reaction to unreciprocated interest/harassment shouldn’t be any different if they are queer or if they are straight, unless they are homophobic. Unwanted romantic interest is unwanted romantic interest.

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            3. Ellis Bell*

              I can be super attracted to someone, and then completely turned off by this level of persistence, so I honestly don’t think it matters. For some reason OP felt sure they had to make the personal/professional connection happen entirely from their side … and that’s always the kiss of death.

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        2. Anne Shirley Blythe*

          Agreed–I also consider that an interpretation, which adds another level of yikes. It reminds me of blogger Dr. Nerdlove’s repeated advice to join organizations/activities because they genuinely resonate with you, not as an ATM for women.

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          1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

            OP, apologies if I’ve misgendered you, but the advice still stands.

            This level of communication would be, at best, an irritant in a variety of situations–platonic connection, networking, job search, sales, fundraising …

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          2. Ellis Bell*

            I’ve employed his advice as a straight woman. I would actually recommend OP check out Dr Nerdlove’s scarcity mindset archives, regardless of gender. This whole thing spun out of control the moment OP decided this woman was “the only one”.

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            1. Ellis Bell*

              I also thought it was tellingly scarce-minded when OP says they’ve already decided on the professional field + interest of their next date. As the good doc says “It is very easy to think this way when you only allow yourself a limited pool from which you look for potential dates.”

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        3. Falling Diphthong*

          I think it’s going to land in the bin:

          A: Hey, I have made a professional connection with B, because they are excited about my work! And they want to talk to me about my work!
          B (leering): That’s not it.
          A: Oh. Gross. Am I an idiot? Should I not have given my name, or job? Is this going to happen any time someone seems interested in my work?

          This tips from self-interested to cruel, on B’s part.

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    4. cat herder*

      +1

      People WILL make time when they’re attracted/interested, even if they’re not normally “good texters” (my fiance is 100% one of those people). She has shown you she’s not interested. Move. On. If you’re fishing in too small of a pond, time to move on to a lake.

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    5. RIP Pillowfort*

      And they wanted to get to know her whether or not she was interested in that! That’s really alarming language.You don’t get to force someone to get to know you! They can absolutely say no and this woman is saying no by not responding.

      I’ve had this happen in professional STEM organizations when I was younger. Guys really bombarding me with messages and I only want to participate in the professional org! I don’t have any interest other than that. I had to stop participating and felt unsure of joining others because it kept happening. I have a lot of feelings on this subject because it’s really discouraging trying to build professional networks when it feels like they only see it as a dating service.

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      1. Onyx*

        I think they meant they wanted to get to know her platonically whether or not she was interested in them *romantically*, which is fine as long as they can truly keep their romantic interest under wraps unless and until it is reciprocated. The fact that the person exchanged phone numbers with them does seem like an indication she was open to interaction at that time (assuming the LW wasn’t pressuring them already–hard to tell given that they didn’t realize the deluge of texts was over-the-top). But the LW does seem to have glossed over the possibility that the new attendee might not be interested in friendship with them, either, in addition to being overly aggressive in their approach.

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        1. Observer*

          I think they meant they wanted to get to know her platonically whether or not she was interested in them *romantically*

          I agree. It could easily be just the LW is not a great writer. But given the rest of the letter I can see why someone would take that line as written rather than the way you (and I, initially) read it.

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          1. Hey there*

            Sure, but here to add even when someone says “even if you’re not interested in me romantically, let’s be friends!” – for me that’s a Hard No. In my experience, doesn’t work out, that person is just then waiting for some opportunity to try to push further (because, yeah, they’re interested). I’ve had this happen plenty of times in my life. Which I’ve always for unfortunate, frankly – I’d love to be friends with more men (I’m a woman) but I’m not up for dumb shit and if I’ve told you I’m not interested and you agree to be friends I will not then put up with you talking shit about someone I meet or want to date and etc., etc., etc. I have a friend who plays in this area (“oh he just wants to be friends!”) and then is always fending off someone who swore they weren’t interested. Ah-f’ing-noying.

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            1. Emily Byrd Starr*

              I agree with you. It’s just not possible to be platonic friends when one of them is attracted to the other, and it’s not reciprocated.

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      2. atalanta0jess*

        Oh no, that’s a harsh reading. Pretty sure it meant “I am interested in her romantically but still want to get to know her even if she’s not interested in me romantically.” Not like, I WILL KNOW YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

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        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          I want to be generous to OP, (I qualified my second comment with “you seem like a creeper, not that you are. OP could be quite open hearted, generous, or madly crushing) but whatever the reason the “opportunity for me to hang out with her again,” as a priority to add is why people are being harsh.

          Reply ↓
          1. wfh_addict*

            LW says “[s]he’s incredibly driven and smart”, based solely on joint attendance at a one-hour meeting of an organization.

            It’s a huge crush. I sympathize. We’ve all been there.

            Reply ↓
        2. Vimes*

          Not after eight solicited contacts. LW has definitely shown that they are 100% fine with forcing themselves into this woman’s view regardless of what the woman in question actually wants.

          Reply ↓
          1. goddessoftransitory*

            Basically, yeah.

            OP can be–heck probably is!–a perfectly nice person most of the time and this is an outlier (that she wrote in to AAM tells me she probably doesn’t make a habit of deciding on somebody like they’re a Squishmallow on the sale shelf and not a person.)

            But all the person she’s crushing has to go on is her actions. And those include insisting on checking that the phone number given was real and then a flood of “get to know ya!” texts that just kept coming even when she didn’t respond.

            She doesn’t have to give second chances or cut them slack or all the other things our society tells people about boundary testers and see if she’s wrong or misinterpreting things. She’s got what she needs and her silence speaks volumes.

            Reply ↓
        3. Ellis Bell*

          This is exactly how obsessive behaviour creeps up on an otherwise good person though. You think you’re okay with just friendship or professional contact, but you’re secretly viewing these as consolations, and more honestly, as stages towards the intimacy you really want. The tell tale symptom is that you get too bummed out if you “fail” and one stage doesn’t progress to the next. Subconsciously you’re trying to make sure there’s lots of reasons for them to respond. So obsessive behaviour is when a text is not responded to, instead of just thinking “ball’s in their court” it’s followed by increasing texts, as well as connecting on Facebook and Teams, all the while thinking that peppering them with info is okay if “it’s relevant to her organisation” and “there’s no reason not to respond!” because you can’t let go of hoping to get to the next stage. Even genuinely just wanting friendship is still pushy if you’re saying things to yourself like “I only got to see her for an hour, so I had no real chance to get to know her” as though that’s not the actual deal with strangers. A non obsessive approach is more “I don’t really know this person, but she seems cool; I hope she will text back, but it’s no biggie if not”.

          Reply ↓
      3. Jellyfish Catcher*

        Oh, True that! I’m retired, had a sub-niche consulting area which was less than 5% women back then.
        Fortunately, I had an office and staff.
        Most guys were great. But others…. I used a particular intercom beep, for staff to come in to “take notes.”
        You wouldn’t believe what male strangers occasionally proposed, in an office.
        If they were halfway mild tries, I told then in a calm business voice that it’s Not one of our services and continued, as if it wasn’t said.
        If there were bad vibes, the staff was beeped in and we wrapped up the consulting service right then.
        We referred to that as our OTD Consulting: out the door.

        Reply ↓
    6. Dark Macadamia*

      Yep, I read that line and my immediate thought was “yes, you absolutely came on too strong” before I even got to the near-daily barrage of unacknowledged texts. You’re using a professional organization to hit on someone, of course it was too much.

      Reply ↓
    9. A Cita*

      It’s also frustrating because to go to an event for women/girls in STEM, supposedly a safe space, what with women in STEM being sexually pursued and harassed or discriminated against being a huge issue, and to then be so obviously sexually pursued by someone who must have dealt with the same in her own career and is supposedly an ally must really suck. Turned a safe space into a hostile encounter.

      Reply ↓
  4. Stella70*

    I don’t wish to disappoint OP further, but if I were the recipient of all these contacts, I would be quite concerned. Two attempts without a response, max. Anything more and it becomes unsettling.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Yeah, at minimum what it tells you is this person is way too enthusiastic and isn’t really going to let you just interact with them on a casual level if that’s all you want.

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Yes. The best case scenario in her eyes is “this person needs waaaaaay more attention than I can give.” It’s like knowing you are not the best person to adopt a fox terrier or husky.

        Reply ↓
    2. Juicebox Hero*

      Even without the romantic aspect, being spammed about anything puts me right off. In LW’s case, if I was the woman in question, I’d be reluctant to go to anything to do with this organization because I’d be worried about LW macking on me the whole time, instead of whatever we were supposed to be doing.

      Reply ↓
      1. Dark Macadamia*

        I feel really bad for this woman. If I was trying to volunteer/network/get more involved in my community this one person would prevent me from coming back.

        Reply ↓
        1. Falling Diphthong*

          Same. I recently started volunteering with a new org, and this sort of thing would have chased me far off any future involvement.

          Reply ↓
      2. Wendy Darling*

        I’m in the middle of buying a car and the level of contact reminds me of car salespeople.

        Because I know car salespeople are like this, I made a burner email AND a burner phone number for the purposes of buying a car. So I can throw both of them away as soon as I’m done.

        Reply ↓
    3. Stretchy McGillicuddy*

      If I were on the receiving end of all of this unwanted contact I would seriously consider notifying whoever is in charge of the state-level volunteers and letting them know I am being harassed by one of their representatives. This would be deeply unsettling in any context, but given that this position seems to include close contact with children, I would not want someone with this much trouble understanding boundaries and appropriate behavior coming into contact with children and families.

      Reply ↓
  5. Oh No*

    Friend, I know it can be really hard when we are flooded with hope and attraction and the many good chemicals that come with that but: you need to stop. Do not reach out, do not try and talk to her again, and most definitely don’t approach her at the conference.

    Take some time to mourn your crush (with your friends or alone or however you do that) and then, when you feel better and are in a better headspace, take some time to reflect on this. I think this comment section’s gonna be a bit hard on you, but I can get how we all can go a bit crazy sometimes, but yeah, you’re out of step here.

    Reply ↓
    1. Galadriel's Garden*

      To be fair to the comment section here…many of us have been on the receiving end of this type of behavior professionally, and it probably touches more than a few nerves to see what have been some very frustrating/disheartening/unprofessional/downright unpleasant or unsafe scenarios from the perpetrator’s perspective, especially when OP does not seem to recognize that their behavior was inappropriate or over the line. It will probably be a bit of an overwhelming deluge of negativity to read, and I appreciate the empathy you’re showing for OP, but at the same time…a valuable lesson should be learned here, that you should not leverage your professional position to hit on someone who has shown no interest.

      Reply ↓
      1. Olive*

        I have been on the over-communicating with a crush end of this behavior. Fortunately, it was as a student with another student instead of blowing up my professional life (not that that made it acceptable).

        I wish that someone had been more direct (even harsh) with me sooner, even if it hurt to hear.

        Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        (I know this is not directed at me)
        It’s so complicated when good intentions and cluelessness meet at a nexus typically occupied by creeps. But if cluelessness is landing in the creep-adjacent space and the end result is this newcomer being uncomfortable and maybe feeling unwelcome at a larger table of professional development… well we can’t erase that reality either. Irrelevant of gender, I think the comments are valid AND maybe too harsh for the OP’s situation

        Reply ↓
        1. Beth*

          It does suck to get a lot of “you’re being a creep” if you genuinely didn’t realize you were getting into that zone. It’s uncomfortable to realize you’ve been behaving so badly and hurting others without realizing it.

          But it’s not too harsh for people to give that message! An adult who’s harassing someone else (which is what’s going on here) needs to know that this is a really serious issue, they need to stop immediately, and they need to never do it again. If it’s due to cluelessness…that’s actually best-case scenario, because a well-intentioned person getting a wake-up call like that is way more likely to change their behavior than an established creep. But that’s the only way that intentions matter–they influence what you do next, not the feedback you get for what you already did.

          Reply ↓
        2. Galadriel's Garden*

          I honestly disagree that the comments are too harsh. Struggling with social norms is an explanation, one to which we can all be empathetic, but it does not excuse the behavior; that OP seemed to plan to continue this pattern of unwanted contact tells me that they very much need to hear how this is coming off. Being on the receiving end of something like this is stressful or unsettling at best, and can be downright frightening at worst, and acknowledging that is not a bad thing.

          Reply ↓
  6. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

    OP, I have been in that woman’s position. Please leave her alone! Also, I suspect you might be tempted to text her and apologize and explain yourself after you read Alison’s response and the comments. Please don’t! Delete her number if you think you can’t resist. For real.

    Reply ↓
    1. HugeTractsofLand*

      +1! At this point the apology would be entirely for your own benefit, and this one-sided conversation has already been entirely for your own benefit. Do what you have to in order to just drop it.

      Reply ↓
    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      THIS. Very much this. Please do not reach out to explain yourself. There are no magic words that will undo this. the only thing you can do is not contact her.

      Reply ↓
    3. Productivity Pigeon*

      This is a really good addition!

      I know I’ve read a number of other letters where that was OP’s reaction – ”But I *need* to contact her again and apologize/explain/justify myself!”

      No. You need to leave her alone.

      Reply ↓
    4. Lady in STEM*

      Been there as well. I’m a woman in tech and I have worked very, very hard to create a safe space around myself because it is rough out there, for so many reasons.

      When people come on as strongly as OP did, I would consider them, at a minimum, emotionally exhausting. I’ve also had people come on strongly to me to the point where I’ve felt unsafe. I don’t want to feel that way in my spaces that have taken decades to cultivate and I would 100% ditch that space if I had to.

      I’d like to think that OP would be pretty aghast if they realized that they didn’t just put someone off, they might’ve genuinely scared or upset someone. OP, if you’re reading this, please follow the advice of I Worked in a Hellmouth: delete their number and delete reconnecting with them from your mind. And also consider reframing how you connect to people with whom you share a common interest.

      Reply ↓
    5. Stoney Lonesome*

      Honestly, if I was on the receiving end of this, I might appreciate an apology text if it was something along the lines of, “A friend helped me realize how I am coming across by inundating you with texts. I am truly sorry for making you uncomfortable. I am going to delete your number directly after sending this. If you are still interested in Organization, please don’t let my behavior keep you away. If we happen to be at any events together, I will be cordial, but keep my distance.”

      Basically, I would only like a text if it is a genuine admission of understanding what they did wrong and a genuine (not guilt-trippy) promise to no longer engage.

      BUT it is a far far safer move to just not respond at all. If the OP is not self-aware enough to realize that that many unanswered texts is too much, I kind of doubt they can write a self-aware apology.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ally McBeal*

        Noooo no no, not after EIGHT unanswered texts! That is just way too much (apparently) unwanted contact to justify a ninth message, no matter how conciliatory.

        Reply ↓
        1. goddessoftransitory*

          I agree. Even a sincere and well intentioned apology simply comes across as yet another “finger across the line on the car seat” annoyance that we all remember from childhood at BEST. It’s far more likely to read as simply switching out tactics to see if this will get a response, and at worst, a veiled threat in that line about future events.

          Not the the OP is doing any such thing consciously! But I might read that as “I COULD bother you but I won’t, so there–for now.”

          Reply ↓
      2. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        Having been in that position I would honestly much rather just been left alone than received an out of the blue apology that was, once again, more about the other person’s feelings than any true consideration of me, a person whose only feelings were “STOP TEXTING ME.”

        Reply ↓
        1. Lady in STEM*

          Same. Because IME, it can sometimes be read as seeking yet another opening. “If I am contrite enough, maybe she’ll see I am an okay person and respond.” Not saying that’s the case with OP, but that’s definitely a thing that happens.

          Reply ↓
          1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

            Oh absolutely. I would feel pressure to respond (because culturally it’s expected to respond to an apology with *something* and I’m not immune to social conditioning), and it would make it even worse.

            Reply ↓
            1. Sam I Am*

              This. An apology would make it obvious that this has become A Thing for OP, and now she’s continuing to involve this woman (a virtual stranger) in it rather than just reading her cues and leaving her alone.

              Reply ↓
        2. EventPlannerGal*

          Same. I understand the impulse but I think even this kind of heartfelt apology is somehow presuming more of a relationship than actually exists. Like, this woman does not know OP *at all*. They have met ONCE. This amount of feelings – even if in the form of an apology – is totally inappropriate and after all the other messages, would seem more like another strategy to get a response than something genuine. (And even if it was genuine, so? It’s not her problem!)

          Reply ↓
      4. Blue*

        Your suggested idea for an apology still reveals a very intense amount of emotional investment from OP that will surely freak this poor woman out even further! The *only* considerate option is to leave her alone.

        Reply ↓
      5. MsM*

        If OP does encounter this woman in person, and if she is somehow amenable to chatting beyond “I am saying hello to be polite and will find an excuse to end this conversation ASAP,” a “sorry for coming on so strong” might not go amiss. Otherwise, I don’t think OP should go out of her way to try and apologize.

        Reply ↓
    6. goddessoftransitory*

      Yes, especially that last sentence. If you really feel you “can’t resist,” you are expecting this contact to provide you with something you think you need, but that the other person simply cannot give you.

      Reply ↓
  7. DogFace Boy*

    OP, you’ve got to think about this from her perspective. She’s the only other woman, which likely means she’s having to navigate a lot of unwanted attention when she just wants to network professionally and do her job.

    Reply ↓
  8. Fluffy Fish*

    OP I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really didn’t see how bad your behavior was.

    For future reference its best if you don’t approach professional and professional tangential situations with an eye to dating. It’s almost always not wanted.

    Reply ↓
    1. Observer*

      OP I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really didn’t see how bad your behavior was.

      I think that you are probably right. But that says that the OP has some real issues in how they relate to people. Some coaching or *some* sort of outside assistance sounds like it would be a good idea here.

      Reply ↓
      1. Fluffy Fish*

        Oh yes very much OP should seek some help calibrating their social expectations and interactions.

        It does seem that OP is a woman attracted to other women which is relevant in the sense that it’s not uncommon for people who feel “other” in society can have challenges relating to others.

        I say this as a child of someone with a severe mental illness that affected how they interacted with people which then affected how I interacted with people. It took me a long time and a lot of self-awareness to work through that.

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    2. Ama*

      Yeah speaking from my perspective, if I was interested in volunteering with a nonprofit and immediately after the first meeting was sent a bunch of messages about hanging out as friends it would make me wonder if the nonprofit wasn’t as focused on fulfilling its mission as being a friend group and that’s not really the dynamic I would be looking for in a volunteer opportunity. (If friendship happened organically over time that would be different.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Dust Bunny*

      I’m autistic and younger me could easily have taken this kind of thing too far, even without the attraction, but a) current me knows to let it go way before this and b) Younger Me would still have been in the wrong.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hindsight is 20/20*

        Same. It’s really hard to look back on past interactions and realize you were the one crossing the line, so I have a lot of sympathy if that’s what’s happening here. Best thing you can do is try to move forward with grace.

        Reply ↓
    4. Qwerty*

      I’m going to amend this to eliminate approaching professional situations with an eye towards building personal relationships – regardless of it is romantic or platonic.

      OP claims they are interested in a friendship if this woman is not romantically interested in them – but this is still really inappropriate and overstepping! Anytime there’s a professional group or situation, the object of affection is kinda trapped and has to worry about burning bridges. With the OP being part of the state group, it also puts them in a position of power over someone involved at the smaller levels, which adds to the ick.

      It is similar to how you don’t court your coworkers. Sure, work friends become Real Friends all the time, but there’s a slow and natural progression because people get really uncomfortable when they are targetted for friendship.

      (Disclaimer – I have lots of friends in my industry and at most jobs. Even dated in the professional community. So not saying personal relationships aren’t possible, just that its not what someone is hoping to find at a professional event.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Fluffy Fish*

        That’s fair. I think wanting to build friendships professionally is ok generally but for someone who struggles with appropriate interpersonal relationships like OP, it’s a good call that they should avoid approaching friendship goals as well.

        Reply ↓
    5. Emily Byrd Starr*

      I think it’s fine to ask someone out who you know from work, as long as neither of you is the other one’s supervisor, and as long as you take no for an answer. Sure, if they say no (or even if they say yes and it doesn’t work out) it will be awkward having to see them at work, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s really no different than dating someone you meet in school and then having to see them again in class after it didn’t work out/they say no.

      Reply ↓
      1. T.N.H*

        Honestly, I don’t think it’s fine. The bar should be way higher at work and, no, it’s not the same as school. Only ask someone out in your professional network if you see clear, demonstrated interest from them (and always err on the side of not asking if you’re unsure).

        Reply ↓
      2. Pixel*

        I disagree – I think the bar for romantic interaction needs to be much higher in work contexts than other social situations. People are there to work, not build relationships. And women especially can often receive so much romantic attention it can feel harassing or hinder their ability to do their work and be taken seriously at work, even if each person only asks once. Even more so for women in male dominated fields. If you’re asking someone out at work, it has to be really REALLY clear that they are ALSO interested.

        Actually, Alison has explained this before better than me: “you shouldn’t ask out someone at work just because you like them. You need to first see active signs that they return that interest. Most people are at work to work and aren’t necessarily open to dating colleagues. Women in particular (who as a group deal with far more unwanted overtures than men do) generally want to be able to do their jobs without feeling like their coworkers are assessing them as potential dates and putting moves on them. They may not want to deal with the potential awkwardness of rejecting a coworker (and the potential ramifications of that for the professional relationship — because even if you know you’ll be cool about it, they don’t know that).” (from https://www.askamanager.org/2020/09/asking-out-a-coworker-the-value-of-service-fellowships-and-more.html)

        A school situation is different, particularly for teens in highschool. K-12 education isn’t just about work; schools are meant to be social communities where making close friendships at school is a significant priority for kids to be successful. Whereas work is not about building deep personal relationships with co-workers.

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      3. Fluffy Fish*

        I would say its a thing that is done, but I don’t really think its fine.

        Colleagues who end up dating generally do so after knowing each other for enough time to suss out that there’s mutual interest. And usually spend time together outside of work where the relationship is developed/asked for.

        Even then it should be done with extreme caution and assurance that both parties are mature enough to not let it affect work in any way shape or form. I’d go so far as to say your colleagues should probably not even be able to tell you’re dating.

        That is not perusing someone AT work with the intention of asking them out. That is not asking out a colleague you barely know.

        The exceptions aren’t the rule and should never be treated as such or given as an excuse to justify asking someone out in a professional context.

        Reply ↓
  9. about that*

    Honestly if I were your supervisor, and this story got back to me (for example, because this person complained), I would be having a talk with you about professional conduct and workplace norms.

    Reply ↓
    1. Yikes Express*

      +1 If I managed this person I would seriously reconsider if they should be involved in anything around communications or being a “face” to the org.

      Reply ↓
  10. Bananapants*

    Oh noooooo yeah that’s a LOT. Also, I might just be weird about phone calls (I never call anyone except businesses and my very close family/friends), but the voicemail especially would freak me out.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I think the voicemail would raise the alarm level for a lot of people because it feels like an escalation after not getting a response after trying a bunch of times another way (and so it raises worries about whether there could be another escalation after that).

      Reply ↓
      3. Galadriel's Garden*

        Absolutely yes! Especially since in the interim there were two new attempts at communicating after the texts – a LinkedIn connection request and a Teams meeting invite – it would absolutely feel like an escalation.

        Reply ↓
        1. Guacamole Bob*

          I hadn’t quite noticed this aspect of it – but yes, trying so many different contact methods is likely to be off-putting. Text, suggesting a phone call, then initiating a phone call and leaving a voicemail, a LinkedIn request, and a Teams invitation taken together as trying to track this woman down by any means necessary, not as polite professional networking.

          Reply ↓
          1. Blue*

            Asking to call, receiving no response, then calling anyway a few days later, starts to really seem like OP considers her own desire to be in contact more important than the other person’s boundaries or consent.

            This woman has other ways of finding out about what’s happening in her field that are not personal messages from a volunteer she met one time, and OP using that limited relationship to justify this amount of contact as if it is for *the other person’s* benefit is really alarming.

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          2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

            Yes. This is the kind of “I absolutely need to get in touch with you” behavior that I associate with ‘grandma is imminently dying,’ ‘you are being sued,’ or ‘I need you to schedule your surgery ASAP.’ Not ‘welcome to the organization’ or ‘you seem neat, wanna hang out?’

            Reply ↓
            1. goddessoftransitory*

              Exactly. And since the woman knows that if something of that level were to happen she’d probably hear about it from multiple sources (news, the organization’s board or similar) the whole “but what if X happens?” from this random person comes across even weirder.

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      7. MassMatt*

        VM definitely escalates things. I’m just glad they wrote in before looking up her home or work address and stalking her there, this seems as if that’s where it was headed. Yikes!

        Reply ↓
      8. goddessoftransitory*

        I agree. It reads as “trying this now” and makes you worry at what they might do if you don’t answer it.

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    2. Sparkles McFadden*

      The texts could be written off as spam, but a voicemail is “You didn’t answer my texts so now I’m going to call.” The voicemail is cause for a freakout because it’s escalation, and the next step is showing up at the person’s workplace.

      Note to LW: Do NOT show up at the person’s workplace! Also, delete her contact info.

      Reply ↓
  11. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    Nowhere in this string of messages did OP ever ask the other person what they thought about the organization, how they might want to be involved, how much time they can devote, etc.

    Now maybe that was covered when they first met in person, but it’s still a really one-sided conversation. How about “Here’s our mailing list/discord channel/social media feed” and then leave it up to her to decide how much to get involved?

    Reply ↓
    1. Falling Diphthong*

      Nowhere in this string of messages did OP ever ask the other person what they thought about the organization, how they might want to be involved, how much time they can devote, etc.

      If OP was trying to give the impression that she does not in fact care about any of that stuff, she has succeeded spectacularly.

      Reply ↓
    2. Emma*

      At this point I would not do this. It’s already too much contact. if the other person wants be involved, and isn’t sure how, they can ask, or look on the website, do a web search etc.

      Reply ↓
        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          yes – I was giving the alternative approach OP should have started with, as a way to contrast with those unasked questions.

          Reply ↓
      2. MissMuffett*

        Exactly. The OP can not possibly be the only way for her to find info about how to be engaged with this org! I mean, she found the first meeting on her own!

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    3. Observer*

      How about “Here’s our mailing list/discord channel/social media feed” and then leave it up to her to decide how much to get involved?

      Yeah, that would have been a good idea. But at this point, that’s water under the bridge. Which is now burnt.

      The only thing the LW can do is stop any sort of messaging.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hannah Lee*

      ” How about “Here’s our mailing list/discord channel/social media feed” and then leave it up to her to decide how much to get involved?”

      That right there is the tell, that THAT wasn’t their default approach after meeting this person.

      OP didn’t take that approach because their goal *wasn’t* to encourage, welcome a new member to engage with *the organization” OP’s focus immediately went to “This is a cool person I, personally, would like to get to know better, spend quality time with and see what happens”

      Hopefully they now see how this was a misstep, not just for how to behave in a professional setting, network, but for pretty much any interaction between humans who have just met.
      The only next step is to steer clear of this person, and be professional, polite if OP does ever run into them again.

      Reply ↓
    5. AngryOctopus*

      This. OP, your first messages were a bit much, I read them as you fishing to ask her on a date. Your next messages, while slightly more group focused, were things she should have read in a newsletter or email from the org. From there you just went off the rails, basically trying to get her to say ANYTHING to you so you could start a convo. But she’s probably sitting there saying “oh man I can’t go back to these meetings, I don’t want to see OP, they’re clearly hitting on me and I’m not comfortable at all”. Next time even if you’re given a number, you say “so glad you joined group. Please let me know if you have questions about anything!!”. Then NO MORE. If you see someone at meetings or they text you back and you become friends/more? Fine. But you went in too hard and need to read the room.

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    6. Starbuck*

      It’s so unclear to me if the LW’s communications with her are within the scope of their role at all here, or if someone else in this org would be this new woman’s actual point of contact for volunteering info and org news etc. for the position she’s in. Like, is she getting deluged with LW’s messages and also the volunteer coordinator or whoever asking her to sign up for shifts? That would make this even wilder.

      Reply ↓
  12. mango chiffon*

    Firstly, I’ll say I hate read receipts being used like this on texts and I wish everyone would turn these off because I think it causes more interpersonal drama than necessary.

    Also, I think following up a day later to clarify which museum you meant was the point you should have stopped.

    Reply ↓
    1. Twinklefae*

      I agree with both of these. I read a lot of my texts on preview, so they don’t get marked as read until I’m ready to go back and reply.

      Reply ↓
    3. not like a regular teacher*

      I think the recipient turned on her read receipts in order to send a message to OP that she had seen the texts and was choosing not to respond. You might prefer if she had take a more direct approach but she is the one being harassed – she gets to decide how and if she deals with OP.

      Reply ↓
      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        We have nothing in the letter to make us think that, though. A lot of people have read receipts on by default

        Reply ↓
      3. mango chiffon*

        My comment was not expressing any opinion on the person being harassed here, but more about how the OP is indicating that they are tracking whether or not the person they are harassing has seen their creepy messages. This can result in “why aren’t you opening my messages” if unread or “I know you saw my messages” if read. If someone is persistent like OP seems to have been, this causes more drama.

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  14. UrsiB*

    Attracted or not, this is still a professional contact. I think the professional thing would have been only a “nice meeting you today” and then maybe the text from T+6. If she replies and a conversation happens, nice. But unless you absolutely know otherwise, you are also a professional contact to her and the messages you wrote were way too many and too friendly/personal.

    Reply ↓
    1. Guacamole Bob*

      Agreed – and the T+6 text is only appropriate if that event isn’t included in the organization’s email newsletter or similar and you genuinely think it would be useful information for the recipient that they otherwise might not have access to. Otherwise it’s a pretty transparent attempt to increase contact.

      Reply ↓
    2. Annony*

      Yep. Most of those texts were not really “related to the organization”. I think a good litmus test is whether you are sending similar texts to other members that you know equally well. If she is the only one getting questions about the museum and notification of events and policy changes then it is not really about the organization and needs to stop.

      Reply ↓
    3. UrsiB*

      I also wanted to add, because I glanced over it at first read, that I’d be super weirded out by getting a meme from a professional contact first thing, no matter if it’s topical or not.

      Reply ↓
    4. Ellis Bell*

      OP knows they behaved differently with this person than other people they have interested in joining them! They know what the appropriate level of engagement is!!

      Reply ↓
  15. My Boss is Dumber than Yours*

    Easy thing to ask yourself: would you be at all concerned with her knowing about/going to this conference if you couldn’t be there yourself? I’m certain the answer is no, which is all the proof you need to understand that you’re doing all of this for your own benefit and only using her interests as a convenient excuse for, frankly, disturbing and harassing behavior.

    Reply ↓
  16. I'm A Little Teapot*

    OP, I’ll be honest, the best case interpretation is you’re severely lacking in the social skills department. Do not contact her. And that’s most likely a lifetime ban against contacting this woman.

    Reply ↓
  17. argus*

    CALLING when she hasn’t responded to a single text is wild. I would be weirded out if anyone I barely knew called me, but after sending so many texts (which, btw, were transparently about forcing a closer relationship and did not read as professional at all), I would have blocked your number

    Reply ↓
  18. JustMyImagination*

    Even taking out the attraction and whether or not she’s picked up on that aspect. If I have a full time job, a masters program and I am interested in volunteering on top of all of that. This level of engagement from the volunteer organization would have me running because the expectations on my time are likely higher than I anticipated.

    Reply ↓
    2. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      100% agree. I just joined a small internal Project Management group because I thought it would be a causal space to brainstorm ideas and have a few bitch sessions.

      The next thing I knew they had a charter, formal mission statement, SVP sponsorship and potentially officer elections. I am about to run to the hills at this point, because I just don’t have time with all of my actual work to feel like I’m pulling my weight with these other rabid PMs.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hannah Lee*

      ^ This!
      This part of Alison’s response resonated with me.
      “Whoa, I just attended one meeting of this group to check it out and now I’m being inundated by an amount of contact I didn’t sign up for and which is disproportionate to my level of involvement.”

      Captures the number #1 reason why I hit unsubscribe/ unfollow /block on things that I’d recently looked into, joined, considered joining, supporting. Too much, too soon … at that point I’m just going to 100% disengage. Even things I’ve supported in the past get on thin ice with that OTT contact.

      Reply ↓
      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I had to enter contact info in order to view the class schedule at a local gym a few months back. The class schedule didn’t work well for me, but even if it had, the daily voicemails reaching out to follow up on my interest would have killed any chance that business had of getting me to give them money.

        OP is probably giving this woman the same feeling.

        Reply ↓
        1. i like hound dogs*

          I had a similar experience!! One time I signed up for a trial fitness class and I got multiple texts, calls and voicemails that same day asking me to confirm (they were from a human, not robo-texts). I was trying to manage my job and my young kid and it annoyed me so much that I didn’t attend the class and never tried out the studio at all. Like, I just wanted to try a barre class, not enter into an intense level of contact with you.

          Reply ↓
        2. UKDancer*

          I had this happen as well. I did a trial class at a gym.

          It was ok but I wasn’t sure I wanted to sign up for a series. They did not leave me alone and in the end I blocked them because they rang me every day and I felt I was being hounded. I certainly didn’t want to sign up for the gym after experiencing the high pressure sales pursuit.

          This feels a lot like that.

          Reply ↓
    4. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      Totally agree. The romantic attraction is easy to jump on but I want LW to know that regardless of that component the behaviour is too much. Whether you were looking for a date, a female friend in your male dominated field (which I definitely relate to seeking for) or someone to join the volunteer group it is all just a lot.

      I can also relate to getting excited about meeting someone new that you desperately want to get to know better (in any of the above circumstances) but I would lay it out this way: every real relationship, whether a colleague, close friend or romantic partner, needs reciprocity. You need to be getting something back from them in terms of participation. Watching for that connection from the other person’s side is crucial.

      LW, if you’re someone who struggles with social cues think about conversation and text exchanges — especially in a newly forged relationship where you are getting to know each other — as something that needs close to 50:50 interactions to demonstrate the other person is in it as much as you are.

      Reply ↓
    5. goddessoftransitory*

      Yes; it’s like offering to bake cookies for a bake sale and then somebody showing up to take you to their professional bakery to work multiple ten hour shifts. Woah!

      Reply ↓
  19. Oof*

    For future introductions, I think a LinkedIn request would be appropriate, and maybe one text letting them know they can contact you if they have any questions about the group. (And only since they gave you the number – but just one, one neutral professionally friendly message.)

    That you are interested personally comes through loud and clear. It would be enough to push me away from an organization if I met someone once and it brought on all this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Generic Name*

      I disagree. I’m very active in professional associations in my area, and the standard is you get added to the org’s email list if you provide your email. Providing email (usually business email) is optional. I’ve never seen an org ask for a phone number, and it would be a lot to add every meeting attendee to LinkedIn. You can include a link to the org’s LinkedIn in whatever newsletter/e-blast that get sent out to all.

      Reply ↓
      1. Annony*

        Yeah, the LinkedIn request would only be ok if she were adding other members as well. Since it was only this one person that makes it weird.

        Reply ↓
      2. Guacamole Bob*

        If I met someone at an event or meeting for an organization related to my professional career and that person later sent me an individual connection request on LinkedIn, I would have exactly zero thoughts about it. Some people try to connect with basically everyone they run into professionally, and it’s not really a big deal one way or the other. I would definitely not click around enough to notice whether OP was connected to others in the organization or not.

        So I think the LinkedIn request was fine, it’s all the other stuff that makes it feel over the top.

        Reply ↓
  20. Snarkus Aurelius*

    You’re attracted to her, but you don’t know her very well. Please let that sink in. Whatever desire you have for this person *isn’t based in reality* because you don’t know her at all. You like whatever idea of her you have in your head.

    Please stop contacting her. I wouldn’t be surprised if she has blocked you already.

    In the future, please keep your interest in people proportionate to the duration you’ve known them. If someone doesn’t reply to you, it’s not because they forgot.

    Also therapy stat.

    Reply ↓
    2. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      I have a *very* small social circle and limited bandwidth for friendships, so OP’s texts after meeting once for such a short period of time would absolutely freak me out. When people try to get too close to me too fast, it’s a major red flag and my walls go up immediately.

      I would probably block OP after the first couple of texts, and absolutely report her to the org after the voicemail. This level of escalation would make me think her next step might be to show up at my place of work to force an interaction.

      Reply ↓
  21. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

    I am rather curious why the LW has not tried to connect with other organization members on LinkedIn. It’s a professional networking site, and other members of this non-profit sound like they could be valuable professional connections.

    Because if the only reason LW reached out to this person on LinkedIn was because of their attraction to her (and/or lack of attraction to other group members), then ick. LinkedIn is not a dating site.

    Reply ↓
  22. Pancakes and Toast*

    As a woman in a STEM field where there are more than 10x as many men as women, I totally get the feeling of finding a kindred spirit, and someone who’s attractive, too! And I get wanting to have a great connection with them!

    But you need to let this go completely. She will not forget that you are interested in connecting with her and will get back to you if she wants that. If a similar situation occurs in the future, I would go with those first T+0 messages and then STOP reaching out until you hear back.

    If you don’t hear back, let it go and move on.

    Reply ↓
          1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

            I mean, I repeat: UNENDING. BARAGE. Unwanted attention is pretty much equal across all fields. Now, open misogyny derailing your career advancement, that might be more explicit in STEM.

            Reply ↓
      2. Paint N Drip*

        Any unbalanced field can get really weird, really fast. As a female person I have worked in ‘rough’ and male-dominated fields, being able to hang in and sharing interests with ‘tough’ men got me more than one legitimate marriage proposal (I am so serious) – you’re always wondering if you got this job for your resume/skills or something else, always wondering what ‘other tasks as assigned’ might end up being gendered BS or terrifying assumptions about your attraction to someone, always facing an uphill climb of holding yourself to a sky-high standard so no one can doubt you then they raise their expectations… ugh.

        Reply ↓
  23. WorkerDrone*

    “And although none of these are urgent, everything I sent her is related to our organization.”

    This is disingenuous, no? I mean, the literal text of what you sent is related to the organization. But everything you sent to her is really related to your desire to get to know her and your attraction to her. You know that, we know that, and probably she knows that. The only caveat I guess would be if you sent similar texts in a similar frequency to every new member you meet.

    “(On her end, it’s an opportunity for her to meet other members and learn things about the organization, but also a chance for me to hang out with her again.)”

    Right, see, there it is again. You want to contact her again supposedly about organization-related stuff. But! It isn’t about her attending this conference to be a valued and efficient member of the non-profit. It’s about getting her into your presence.

    I get it. Seriously. I am a lonely, anxious person who gets super excited when I meet cool people who seem to vibe with me and I have to really pay attention to my intensity and remind myself to back the heck off. I am not judging you but I do think you need a big heaping bowl of self-awareness around your motivations and actions.

    Reply ↓
    1. KitKat*

      I agree that it’s transparently disingenuous. The initial text (“Hey just wanted to say it was great meeting you tonight :) Have you been to Teapot Museum by any chance?”) absolutely reads as a pre-amble to asking someone out, not a professional contact.

      The same content in an actual professional tone would read more like “Thanks for coming to our event! I hope you find a good match working with us, let me know if I can help answer any questions. Since you’re new to the area, I wanted to mention that the Teapot Museum also has great programming in case you haven’t checked it out yet.”

      Reply ↓
      1. iglwif*

        THANK you. I have been trying to put into words what felt off to me about even the initial text messages (taking it as read that the number of texts and the escalation to phone calls is super inappropriate), and this is exactly it.

        Reply ↓
      2. Starbuck*

        Yeah if I got that message from someone I’d just met in a professional context and we hadn’t had like, a conversation about going to museums or something that where we expressed mutual enthusiasm for whatever it was… absolutely not! I’d be like oh shoot, they’re trying to ask me out.

        Reply ↓
      3. Czhorat*

        Yes, that’s how I read those; as a pretext to start a conversation – – any conversation.

        I suspect OP knew that – at least subcionsciously.

        Reply ↓
      4. toolegittoresign*

        Yeah, if every text had been about Teams and conferences, it could have seemed just like aggressive networking. But the museum text right out of the gate screams “I want to go there with you” and would make me uncomfortable. It was not cool to hint towards a date in a 2nd text after you meet someone in a work scenario and who gave you their number for professional purposes.

        Reply ↓
  24. Yikes Express*

    Even aside from the personal dynamics – the OP is a representative of their professional organization on a higher level and this is a deeply negligent first impression of the organization to a potential volunteer. This kind of inability to read a room / understand professional boundaries isn’t just personal, its professional.

    Reply ↓
    1. diasporacrew*

      I volunteer for an organization where I have a similar role welcoming new members and following up on their involvement.
      If I behaved like that, I would be shown the door. It’s completely unethical.

      Reply ↓
    2. City Planner*

      I agree — OP, you didn’t specify what kind of role you have with the organization, but if you are an officer/board member, this is super sketchy. Does your organization have a policy on sexual harassment? Are your actions in compliance with that policy? In the professional society I’m involved in, we recently adopted a new Welcoming Environment policy that addresses sexual harassment and unwanted advances like this. You might not only be chasing away a potential new member, but opening your organization up to other problems. If you are a leader in your professional organization, you have an obligation to hold yourself to a higher standard in your actions with the organization.

      Reply ↓
    2. Blarg*

      My mom taught us when we were kids:

      No means no.
      Maybe means no.
      Yes might mean no.

      She was a pretty not-great parent, but this was a good maxim. I always understood the ‘yes might mean no’ to mean unenthusiastic yes, the ‘ummm, sure, i guess’ type of yes.

      Reply ↓
  26. anonymous worker ant*

    Oh yeah. After the first message, which I might have gotten around to reading on T+4 or so, I might be like, “oh, I see they have someone reach out to new members, that’s nice, I might send a polite reply in a couple days to show I’m still interested in the org”.

    After the third message, without any more contact from me, it’s “oh, they’re going to pressure me to get more involved in the org than I have time for right now, I’d better just ghost them if I don’t want to get a hard sell on more volunteering”.

    After T+6 I’m looking for an “unsubscribe to spam” option and after the phone call I’m never doing anything with this org again.

    Unless there was enough of a vibe on the first meeting that I pick up that the question about Teapot Museum is putting out feelers for a date, in which case I’m going to leave you on read forever unless I’m actually interested in a date, because that’s the worst when I exchanged numbers with you for work reasons and we’ve met exactly once.

    Reply ↓
  27. Orange Cat Energy*

    LW, your first text was way creepy. NGL. I’m sure some folks will call my opinion harsh, but IME when a dude brought out the emojis, it was to flirt and it was during times when it was unwelcome/not logical/kinda gross. I’m an old, so I don’t know if it’s more common for men to use emojis in a platonic way nowadays. You met her through a professional organization and sent her a “nice to meet you :)” text that was really toeing the line of flirting/friendly. She put her safety first rather than reply to your text and “encourage” you.

    Reply ↓
    1. Annie*

      LW was a woman, but I’ve seen men put in smiley emojis when they weren’t really trying to flirt. But I think going straight from that to the museum (which seems like a potential future invite if she replies that she hasn’t been to the museum) pushed the first text to yes, more of a flirtatious text rather than a business one. Then two additional texts was waaaayyy too much.

      Reply ↓
    3. Silver Robin*

      LW is probably not a man based on “only other woman I know in my field”. Women are more likely to use emojis in any communcation (in my experience) so that probably is a neutral here.

      Reply ↓
      1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        I dunno, the smiley face combined with the museum preamble would still feel flirty to me in this context, regardless of the texter’s gender.

        Reply ↓
    4. tabloidtainted*

      Overlooking that OP is most likely a woman—a lot of men use emojis and I would not recommend anyone read “creepy” into a single message with an emoji in it.

      Reply ↓
  28. Galadriel's Garden*

    If this was another nonprofit member that you weren’t romantically interested in, would you be as aggressive in how you’ve been approaching contact? What about if this was someone you were romantically interested in and didn’t have the nonprofit connection – would you reach out 8 times in two weeks without any response? This may sound harsh, and I apologize, but it reads like you’re using your role at the organization as a way of strong-arming contact with a woman who has not expressed any interest in your pursuing her, and coming on strongly to boot. Were I in her position, I would not be impressed by this organization whatsoever; I just joined, and someone is leveraging a professional connection and my contact information to hit on me. Alison is right: leave her alone, do not reach out again.

    Reply ↓
  29. Annie*

    Even the first text I think looked like you were more interested in something besides a business relationship, once you mentioned the museum. And then pushing it to a call by the third text when you can just say “give me a call if you’d like to discuss further” would be more appropriate since she hadn’t already responded.

    After that, you put the ball in her court, and that should’ve been it. I know it’s frustrating if you do like someone, and we don’t know how she reacted to your in-person contact except that she was willing to get your contact info.

    But after 3 texts and no reply, that was enough.

    Reply ↓
    1. Guacamole Bob*

      Yes, that third message would have been a real sign to disengage if I had received it. The urgent tone of escalating to a same-day call (over something that would be handled by email with more information about the topics and potential conflict in most professional contexts) would really alarm me.

      Reply ↓
  30. Falling Diphthong*

    You have reached out to her eight separate times (!) without any response from her without realizing you needed to stop, and you’re still considering reaching out again!

    OP, I think the professional connection is clouding your read on this, since you get to tell yourself each time that you’re just reaching out about the STEM thing. She still has all the contacts she had before meeting you, and so can use them to learn all this stuff you claim to be eager to pass on to her.

    You are coming on way too strong as romantic prospect OR friend prospect OR professional connection. And the answer now is to stop.

    Reply ↓
  31. Bonkers*

    This reads to me as being well beyond “a bit over enthusiastic” and into the realm of “no clue about social norms”. While I would be appalled as the recipient of all this un-sought attention, I also feel kind of sympathetic to the LW. (Also, LW, for the love of all that is holy, please never contact this poor woman again)

    Reply ↓
    1. Emma*

      I also feel sympathetic – I sometimes am overly enthusiastic and misread norms. I hope the OP follows Alison’s guidance, learns from it, and isn’t too hard on themselves.

      Reply ↓
  32. ecnaseener*

    The fact she hasn’t blocked your number yet is actually incredible. Whether she senses your personal interest in her or not. If I indicate interest in a new org and they start spamming my phone, it’s a block by like text #2. That’s what email is for. Stop now, before your org loses her!

    If keeping new members informed is actually your responsibility, and not something you decided to do specifically with this individual as an excuse to get to talk to her: you need a better system for checking which contact methods people prefer, and/or default to asynchronous methods like email, at least until the new person is more established.

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      Do phones that have been blocked get some indication they have been blocked (except by calling and getting the dreaded message)?

      Reply ↓
      1. Marmalade*

        Not necessarily, is my understanding. My husband’s phone just does not get messages from some people (not intentionally blocked) and the only thing that happens is if he tries to text someone he will get a not delivered message, the other person just thinks he doesn’t reply.

        Reply ↓
  33. CityMouse*

    I also think even ignoring the attraction interest (which she likely was aware of), you have to give volunteers some space to figure out what they can really do as far as commitment. Asking someone to go in fully when they’re still feeling it out can turn someone off.

    I’m also not clear from the letter if any of this was really appropriate from you as a fellow volunteer. Feeling micromanaged by someone who’s not the coordinator will make someone flee as well.

    Reply ↓
  34. duinath*

    I. Okay. For future reference. When meeting someone at work or volunteering, the first go to in my opinion is not to start reaching out outside that setting until you know them better in that setting and have clear indication it is welcome.

    She put her number in your phone, so let us go with the idea that it was welcome. (If you push for a contact number, or make requests for it for reasons that seem work/volunteer related, that idea goes out the window, and we go back to the getting to know them in the setting.)

    One message. That is where you leave it. If they want to respond, they will.

    Once you realize you’ve overstepped, understand that you do not have a relationship to fix. What you can do, is not make it worse. That is where not reaching out, not seeking them out at events, and not avoiding them comes in.

    You behave as if they are a stranger you have met once. Be polite, but leave them be.

    It can feel like you’ve really missed out on a chance at something. You haven’t, at least not the way it feels. You don’t know them, and the way you imagine them based on the way they acted once, is not how they are in reality.

    Reply ↓
    1. Falling Diphthong*

      You do not have a relationship to fix.
      I think this is really key–there is no relationship here to fix. You shouldn’t keep finding new means of contact to pester someone you met once, who has ignored all your other messages. Whether you want to sell them some crypto, date them, meet their cousin Taylor Swift, or add them to your professional network–the target is not going to go to couples’ therapy with you to fix your relationship and then do what you want.

      They’re going to block you, and possibly then report you to your org.

      Reply ↓
    2. duinath*

      Although, I do want to caution you. You’re framing these messages as “all related to the org” and feeling concerned she won’t respond if there is an urgent message.

      This is disingenuous at best. Please take a more realistic and honest look at your behaviour.

      Reply ↓
      1. Totally Minnie*

        I struggle to think of what urgent organization business there could be that this woman would need to respond to. She’s been to a grand total of one meeting, and if she’s committed to anything at all it’s likely to be something extremely small and minor, and it’s likely that whoever is in charge of that project would be the one contacting her, not LW.

        LW, it’s okay to be disappointed that she didn’t text you back, but please don’t turn that into a judgment on her levels of commitment and responsibility as a professional. You probably really alarmed her with your multiple attempts at communication. That doesn’t mean she wouldn’t respond to her project leader if something important were to come up.

        Reply ↓
      3. Dido*

        yeah, the LW insisting that she might need to contact this woman for “urgent” business was extremely disturbing to me. she’s holding on to any excuse to keep this woman’s contact info despite her clear lack of interest

        Reply ↓
  35. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

    Wait. I just read this again. There were *fourteen* text messages? So… eight more than what you listed out? In addition to a phone call/voicemail? Oh, OP, that is just WAY too much. I’m morbidly curious about the other eight (or more? did you keep texting after you sent in your letter?) text messages that went out, but also I’m feeling a lot of secondhand alarm on behalf of the object of your affection. Definitely delete her number, definitely do NOT reach out through any channels to apolo-splain, just stop contacting. Consider the bridge burned unless she contacts you–and if she does (unlikely), do not do or say anything that you wouldn’t do or say to any other new member at the group level.

    Attraction happens, but you can’t make that the other person’s problem.

    Reply ↓
    1. Guacamole Bob*

      Pretty sure that OP was using T+ to indicate how many days it had been, so this all took place over the course of two weeks, not that there were 14 texts.

      Reply ↓
      2. Hlao-roo*

        I read it the same way, with “T” being a counter of days. Depending on if the messages on Day 0 count as 1, 2, or 3 text messages, my count for total one-sided contact is:

        4-6 texts, 1 LinkedIn request, 1 Teams meeting invite, 1 voicemail

        In my opinion, that’s 3 text messages*, 1 LinkedIn request, 1 Teams meeting invite, and 1 voicemail too many.

        *all the texts after day 0

        Reply ↓
    2. KateM*

      I’m not sure but I think T+0 is “day we met”, T+1 next day, and so on, and T+14 means “two weeks after we met”.

      Reply ↓
  36. Zona the Great*

    Because of the terrible way I was raised, these texts would provide two sources of stress for me. One would be getting the unwanted texts and having to have the feeling that I was just hit on without invitation and the other would be that I would feel anxious and bad about not texting back someone in my professional circle (yes, even though it was inappropriate). Then I would resent the person for putting me in this position.

    Reply ↓
    1. Firebird*

      Feeling that stress right now. (Thanks for motivating me to deal with it.) I finally returned a text just now, because I know he’s going to bring it up at a meeting tonight. I think he’s trying to stealth date me even though I already turned him down. He’s in a couple of groups that I also attend and I don’t want to leave those groups.

      Reply ↓
      1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        Ugh, I hate that for you! Don’t leave your groups–is there any way you can redirect him to a group chat or something? Or only answer him verbally in front of group members (“Oh hey, Dinglebert–you texted me about the 5e mechanics of a Guacamole Monster, didn’t you? Sorry, I don’t check my phone very often unless it’s priority–but maybe someone here knows the answer, hey, have any of y’all got any experience with this?”). Or start copying other people into the text chains (“No, I’m all set with a ride to the event/my car is all full, but I just copied Big Angus in–Angus, do you wanna keep Dinglebert company on that 6 hour trek? He’s got lots of room in his car”)? Blithely turn it around so the dude making things uncomfortable can be the one who is uncomfortable instead of you. Heck, forward all of his texts to a group text while saying “Whoops, looks like you accidentally just sent this to me instead of to the group! No worries, everyone is on it now” so his actions start becoming less stealth.

        I’ve actually had a lot of success with those kind of tactics. I just stay totally wide eyed and innocent the whole time because of COURSE Dinglebert didn’t mean to single me out, because if he did wouldn’t that be so invasive and creepy, haha, good thing I know he’s not doing that and I’m including the people accidentally left out, right Dinglebert?

        Reply ↓
  37. Falling Diphthong*

    I had also found her on LinkedIn and sent a (still pending) request on T+9 (I haven’t done this with other members).
    Oh. No.

    OP, you were already way over with all those text messages she ignored. The problem is NOT that she can’t figure out how to contact you.

    On T+10, I invited her to a monthly Teams meeting that I schedule for our group, and she still hasn’t sent an RSVP.
    No.

    On T+12, I called and left a voicemail about future lessons.
    No, no, no.

    I’m writing this letter to you on T+14.
    OP, picture the whole commentariat saying “No” in unison.

    Reply ↓
    1. Juicebox Hero*

      Make that last one the whole commentariat doing the Mr. Bill “Ooooh Nooo!” in unision and you’ve got a winner.

      Reply ↓
    2. Bird names*

      Yeah, right there with you FD.
      LW, I encourage you, along with everyone else here, that you make today T+0 of never contacting this woman again in any way, shape or form.

      Reply ↓
  38. Alex*

    I think your attraction to her is clouding your judgment about the appropriate level of communication. This is wayyyyyy too much energy to spend on someone you met briefly at an event, and yes, it is likely you did scare her away! I would have been put off for sure.

    Next time you are attracted to someone in a professional context and want to engage, ask yourself, before you act, if you would engage this way with someone you were not attracted to. Did you engage this way with anyone else purely with professional motives? I doubt it. So don’t do it to people you are attracted to either. While plenty of people meet and date via work connections, it is not cool to try to have a “professional reasons” veneer on your communications with someone you really want to date.

    If you find yourself wanting to date someone you met through work or work-related contexts, ask them out directly ONCE, accept a hard or soft no if that is what they respond with (soft no = avoiding the question, deflecting, saying they are busy that day, etc.), and then drop it forever, treating them as you would anyone else.

    Reply ↓
  39. L_Rons_Cupboard*

    “I’ll admit, I’m really attracted to her, but I still wanted to get to know her regardless of whether or not she’s interested.”

    Um, no one believes you. You gave yourself away with that admission.

    Reply ↓
  40. AbbyJo*

    This is completely unprofessional. I’m the leader of a professional organization, and I’ve made many friends through my work. However, those relationships come from working together in the organization. When I meet people in my field, I provide them with information about how to join the organization and signup for the listserv. The only time that I contact anyone later is to follow-up on information that they requested when we met and only after first telling them that I will contact them. For example, if they expressed interest in a workshop or a committee, I send them information about how to get involved in those activities. Otherwise, all of the information comes directly from the organization, and they can decide how to participate (or not). I never collect contact information from anyone except to provide information that someone directly asks for. If someone attends an event where we collect contact information from attendees for follow-up activities, then my leadership team sends information only about the specific involvement opportunities that we discussed during the event–and people have the option to not signup for additional information.

    If a leader of a professional organization wants to get to know someone for reasons that aren’t linked to the organization, then they should directly state that they are interested in getting to know the person (socially, romantically, whatever) when they meet instead of using the organization as a pretense for connecting. Leaders in organizations shouldn’t be using contact information from the organization to do anything but the work of the organization.

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    2. Dido*

      this is the way. my boyfriend and I met at a conference, after the conference closed and we were waiting in the lobby for our rides. it could have been creepy, but he was upfront about his intentions so I could make an informed decision about whether or not to give him my phone number, and I have no doubt that he would he disappeared without a fight if I rejected him. If he had lied about his intentions in order to get my contact info and then sent me a string of unreciprocated texts for two weeks after, I would’ve been creeped out for sure

      Reply ↓
    3. AnotherSarah*

      YES. Everything needs to be informational. She gave OP her number, and I think a “Great to meet you at [event]; let me know if you want to know more about [something the group does]” would be fine. Memes would strike me as unprofessional but ymmv. But everything has to be in the potential new member’s court–she may not even really join the org!!

      Reply ↓
  41. Lemons*

    Oh no OP! Yeah you have to leave this alone, you have worked yourself into a lather over one meeting…as others have pointed out, you don’t know anything about this woman, and you need to leave her alone now. I’m sorry, I think we all do this sometimes! It’s so much more fun to count all those unhatched chickens.

    Reply ↓
  43. McThrill*

    Hey LW – I mean this with good intentions and sincerely hope it will help you. Just for future reference, anytime you find yourself listing text messages along with their delivery times and “read/delivered” status that’s a sign that you’re in way too deep and your best option is to back off and go no-contact until the person reaches out again. I cannot think of a single situation where following this rule would be the wrong course of action.

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    1. McThrill*

      Also, for future reference: It is incredibly unfair to this (brand new, junior member) of your organization to approach her with personal text messages under the guise of it being career-related. Do you ask every new member of your teapot organization if they’ve been to the Teapot museum? Do you send personal messages to every member asking to discuss rules and regulations with them, personally one-on-one? I’m guessing no, and this woman absolutely knows that too. if you want to date someone do them the courtesy of being upfront about it rather than trying to find “one weird trick” to becoming romantically involved with them.

      Reply ↓
    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      OP.

      You’re actively harming your own professional field with this behavior.

      You’ve most likely alienated the ONLY other woman from your professional organization. A more junior woman who probably could’ve used the networking opportunities.

      You had a responsibility to look out for her here and you borderline stalked her instead, putting her in a situation where she might be forced to give up opportunities because you were unable to respect her boundaries.

      Please leave her alone from now on and really reflect on your actions and how you handle boundaries, not just in this situation but others as well.

      Someone else pointed out that it was disingenuous of you to frame your crush as reaching out to her for professional reasons and I agree.

      Being honest about your intentions, both with her and with yourself, would’ve been the better choice here.

      It still wouldn’t have been good to contact her this many times but it would’ve been *true*.

      Reply ↓
      2. Mutually supportive*

        Thank you for saying this. Of all of the potential members of this organisation, a woman in an industry dominated by men is one of the most likely to benefit from finding a place that she’s comfortable to network.

        And now the organisation that you are part of is no longer available to her, she’s missed out, and so has the organisation.

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  44. AthenaC*

    I think the two texts on day T+0 and the LinkedIn request are fine. Nothing else should have happened unless and until she responded.

    Even if you have information that’s to her benefit, she is free to decline to engage. I know it’s not a nice feeling when you reach out and your interest isn’t returned, but that’s just life.

    Reply ↓
    1. Observer*

      I think the two texts on day T+0 and the LinkedIn request are fine.

      Nope. Not at all.

      Firstly, even if nothing else had happened, a LinkedIn invite to *only* this woman is a problem. And she can see who the LW is linked to, so she knows the score.

      Secondly, given everything that the LW had done before they invited her, it’s not credible that this was in any way a “professional” invitation.

      Reply ↓
      1. AthenaC*

        Okay well that’s your view – LinkedIn requests aren’t viewed as particularly significant in my field. They are generally pretty casual and people cast a very wide net, so it’s not super uncommon for me to see people connecting after we maybe worked together once or met briefly at an event. Maybe we talk after, maybe we don’t.

        But anyway, that’s where I’m coming from.

        Reply ↓
        1. JHunz*

          It’s not about whether a LinkedIn request is significant in and of itself, it’s about the fact that OP is treating this woman differently from other prospective members because of her romantic attraction. If a LinkedIn request isn’t a standard part of the process, then it shouldn’t be a part of the process for this person either.

          Reply ↓
          1. AthenaC*

            Again I don’t see LinkedIn as a particularly significant act that you have to run through your internal nondiscrimination filters. You happen to meet someone / think of them later and you want to send a connect request? Go for it.

            It’s not like a wedding where you if you invite one person you HAVE to invite everyone within that relationship circumference. It’s totally fine to connect with some people on your team and not others, some people you volunteer with and not others, some people in a networking cohort and not others.

            I’m a little mystified that people are attaching so much weight to LinkedIn. Do people really analyze circles of connection this closely?

            Reply ↓
            1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

              People are attaching weight to treating one person very differently from the way literally every other person in the same position is treated.

              Reply ↓
            2. Hlao-roo*

              I’m with you, AthenaC. I think if the LW had sent the two T+0 texts and a LinkedIn request and nothing else, that would have been fine. I think people are reacting pretty strongly because, of course, there was a lot of “else” in this letter between the initial texts and the LI invite, and also after the LI invite.

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  45. Falling Diphthong*

    OP, I’m going to ask that you look at this from her point of view:

    She’s one of the few women in this field, and she’s trying to professionally network. She meets another woman in the field at one of these events… and now she’s trying to avoid that woman, and probably avoid that woman’s org. Instead of her pool expanding, she’s having to cut off professional avenues to avoid interacting with you.

    You need to back off. And if you do encounter her at another event, don’t do more than a polite “Hi” and then move along, indicating that you have finally gotten the message and won’t make any future professional events difficult for her.

    Reply ↓
  46. WantonSeedStitch*

    I started reading this and at first I just saw the first couple of things. Then I scrolled down. Then I scrolled further down. And…it just kept going. And with every line I just went “oh no” a little more. If I were the woman in question, I would not only be scared off, but I would consider reaching out to the organization’s board to let them know about the LW’s behavior.

    Reply ↓
      1. Falling Diphthong*

        I did that, and reading comments it turned out I had missed all the other avenues tried when the texts didn’t generate a response.

        OP, the teapot museum thing felt like a date feeler, not a professional contact. You could have written a letter at that point, and people would have said “That sounds like a date, not a professional contact. And you now need to back off, because she is indicating no.”

        If you had backed off then, after one misstep, the advice would be more about how to leave the ball in her court if you meet again, and how to not make it weird. Continuing on tilted the response into “it will be weird. So weird” and thus firm bans on all forms of future engagement.

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  47. Jules the 3rd*

    LW, I feel ya. That click of a new person with whom you might have a lot in common is intoxicating. I didn’t feel that you went overboard until the phone call – until then, it’s just New Person energy. But she doesn’t feel it, and yeah, it’s time to let it go. Especially if you meet in person again. You can wave with a smile, but do not approach. If she wants to interact, she can approach you.

    The best way to deal with stuff like this is to dive in to other things you like – at the conference, focus on friends you already know and on topics of special interest. Being content and happy with your life is the most attractive thing of all, for friends or romantic partners. Healthy people don’t want to become the fulfiller of someone’s needs, they want to be partners in a play of shared interests.

    Reply ↓
  48. mreasy*

    She definitely knows you are interested in dating her, doesn’t want to date you, and given the text onslaught without ANY response, is now scared off from responding about the org at all lest it open the floodgates further or give you the wrong idea.

    I am glad OP asked this question, though it should have been 6 texts ago. This is a great example of what many women in the workplace face when they just try to be friendly and network.

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  49. Lucy*

    I would have blocked your number after text 3. Someone i have met once is sending me multiple messages. No, stop. She does not want to be contacted so I would leave her alone.

    Reply ↓
  50. CommanderBanana*

    Oof.

    Yeah, no, getting a tsunami of unsolicited contact like this would be enough to put me off getting involved in this org.

    Reply ↓
  52. iglwif*

    Oh no. Oh dear.

    Yes, you have probably freaked her out. No, you should absolutely not keep contacting her! This is way, way over the top, and I hope you will reflect on this whole experience, learn from it, and let that learning guide you in the future.

    Best case: She looked at this deluge of contacts across several modes of communication and went, Oh boy, this org is way more of a commitment than I expected – I don’t think I’m ready to get involved right now.

    Worst case: She is experiencing this as harassment, is never going anywhere near this organization ever again, and is about to block your number.

    Reply ↓
  53. Local Woman*

    OP, you’ve gotten a lot of feedback from Alison and commenters here, all of which is true. It can be really painful to feel isolated in your field and to meet someone who you feel really connected with, regardless of the nature of that connection, and not get that same connective energy back in return. This pain is real, and you should let yourself feel it so that you can learn and grow from it. You are a competent professional and a human being with value, and in your future you will make the connections — friendly, professional, or romantic — that you hope to make. But in the meantime, to prepare yourself for those connections, it is so important to build up your own self-esteem, and to learn how to make one bid for connection and then sit back and wait to see what comes back to you. Shore up your sense of self-worth and your uniqueness. Get deep into your existing non-work hobbies (I think this volunteering opportunity counts as work!) or find new ones. Figure out ways to gather with people you care about and who care about you. Find ways of giving to or serving the people in your life without expecting anything in return. You may not always get what you want, but you will eventually get what you need. Focus on your well-being and community and the rest will follow. Wishing you all the best.

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  54. CubeFarmer*

    If I were this new member, I would be contacting a fellow member and asking if this level of contact would be a normal amount to expect for the organization and then reassessing my willingness to be involved. The museum question was clearly a way to start a social connection.

    Stop contacting this person.

    Reply ↓
  55. Pay no attention...*

    TBH, if it happened to me, I might not have pinged immediately on your attraction, but I definitely would block you for spamming me about policies and events. And then I’d probably ask the org to take me off their list, which might result in them asking me why I wanted to opt out, which could get you into trouble. Just saying…

    Reply ↓
  56. Productivity Pigeon*

    You’re actively harming your own professional field with this behavior.

    You’ve most likely alienated the ONLY other woman from your professional organization. A more junior woman who probably could’ve used the networking opportunities.

    You had a responsibility to look out for her here and you borderline stalked her instead, putting her in a situation where she might be forced to give up opportunities because you were unable to respect her boundaries.

    Please leave her alone from now on and really reflect on your actions and how you handle boundaries, not just in this situation but others as well.

    Someone else pointed out that it was disingenuous of you to frame your crush as reaching out to her for professional reasons and I agree.

    Being honest about your intentions, both with her and with yourself, would’ve been the better choice here.

    It still wouldn’t have been good to contact her this many times but it would’ve been *true*.

    Reply ↓
    1. Falling Diphthong*

      You had a responsibility to look out for her here and you borderline stalked her instead.

      This aspect really bugs me. OP isn’t just a peer met at a mixer–she’s a more senior, better networked contact in the field. With the org aspect OP is in a quasi mentor role, and her actions could well make this woman doubt herself when she makes any future contacts that at first glance seem like a senior person taking an interest in her career.

      I’m guessing that outcome is contrary to OP’s org’s stated goals.

      Reply ↓
  57. I dream of rain*

    You seem self-aware enough to notice that these actions are coming on too strong and reached out for advice – good work!

    I’d like to add some practical considerations that may or may not apply to you in particular; you’re welcome to take anything that does, and discard whatever doesn’t.

    My thoughts:

    You don’t want to go down this path, friend. You don’t even want to be close to the edge of it. You want to be way over here on the safe, not-impulsive, that-door-is-peacefully-closed-forever side, and put guardrails up in place so you don’t get to where you start believing your own rationalizations – don’t even take a step into that direction.

    OP, I say this with gentleness because I can also tend to come on strong and not read others’ cues (so I’m not judging you): how are your actions different than a stalker or creeper’s actions?

    (Actions, not intentions)

    (From the other person’s perspective)

    (The next step is NOT to explain your intentions!! There is nothing you can do by engaging further, except make it worse. Seriously. Let her have a bad narrative about you if that’s indeed what she has – she may not – but there is literally nothing you can do right now to prove you respect boundaries, except to stop all behaviors that are similar to people who don’t respect boundaries, which is basically everything Alison said)

    This person doesn’t know you. She is accumulating the data points that you’re providing her, and at a minimum they are ‘this person doesn’t know how to read social cues’.

    Based off that, her next logical conclusion would be ‘if this is what I get from this person based off almost no interaction, I would likely get more of the same if I responded.”

    Also, the overlap in the Venn diagram of “people who don’t read social cues and find your info online and escalate in this way” and “people who could make your life absolutely terrifying or worse” is pretty wide, and also unknown (thinking about the concept of Shroedinger’s rapist, and the question I’ve heard asked that’s something like “you know your own intentions but if you were someone different – an unsafe person – would this person feel safe with how you are acting right now?”)

    You have a critical, beautiful chance here to stop now and not make it worse. Please take it.

    Stopping ALL attempts at contact now and forever, and doing only what Alison said might help the narrative become “she came on a little strong at first but then backed off and acted normal”. Nothing else you can do regarding explaining yourself better will help here. I promise.

    Some distress management techniques that may help: when you get caught up in wanting to defend your intentions or reach out to her, STOP. Distract yourself. This road leads nowhere good. I promise. You can imagine all the possible realistic outcomes if that helps – if she’s not uncomfortable now, maybe she gets scared of you since your behavior has already crossed several lines; she could be triggered especially if she’s been stalked or harassed before, or has seen, like, any movie or news.

    Then, imagine what it would be like if that woman understood the good intentions that you meant, forgives you for doing that, still decides not to be in touch with you, and is just hoping you go about your life focused on the things you’re happy to experience and she will too. Send her mental good wishes, send yourself mental good wishes, may you all be at peace, and go about your life.

    Give yourself grace and love and self care. Forgive yourself. Notice any remaining impulses and concerns. Reach out to supportive friends or a therapist if these continue to come up for you!

    You won’t regret waiting out (not acting on) any impulses. If your mind comes up with something that sounds like “here’s a good enough reason to contact her!” or “this would come across well” or even “I’ll just see what she’s doing on social media/if she attended any events”, pause, stop, and choose something else to do. Nothing bad will happen if you don’t contact her right then. If it’s something that feels urgent, that’s a sign to NOT. Nothing is that urgent for you to do regarding this relative stranger to you. Something bad WILL happen if you do reach out (at a minimum she’ll have another data point in this list).

    Identify the unmet need inside you, and find a good way to meet it.

    You got this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Emily Byrd Starr*

      I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say, except for the part about stalkers’ intentions. Many stalkers do not realize that what they are doing is stalking, much like LW here. They are just people who need to be explicitly told that anything other than a clear yes is a no.

      Reply ↓
    3. btdt*

      this is great advice. I had horrific experiences in a couple of relationships where people shifted from seeing me as a friend (who totally could ask questions about relationship stuff, like “dude what was up with XYZ that was weird”) to some strange uncomfortable person. I really wished I’d followed the rule of just waiting to see what happened, even when I thought it was stupid or that the person “should” have known my intentions were good. you’re not going to go wrong with waiting for a response but you’re definitely going to get burned by people who read you as being unstable or even malevolent if you don’t want. for the sake of your own nervous system, if someone doesn’t text back after 2 texts, you have got to be done. no more invites. no more texts. no nothing. it will spare you a lot of headaches.

      Reply ↓
  58. Andromeda*

    Another thing I noticed — LW, it sounds like you’re senior to the new org member in some capacity. I’m semi-new to the working world and I would be intimidated by these messages *especially* if they were sent by someone senior. You are an unknown quantity to her at this point, but one with potentially a lot more career/social capital than she has. From her perspective, that’s unsettling!

    I also agree with some other commenters that the framing that it’s all related to the org is pretty disingenuous, consciously or not. Ultimately her responding to any of the messages would probably cause you to try to further your personal interest, so it’s not really strictly professional at all.

    You might be able to bring her opinion of you back to neutral by ceasing all contact and giving her a wide berth. (As in, going to extra effort to remove yourself from her presence while not asking her to put in any effort and not making it clear to other people what’s gone on.)

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  59. Other Fish*

    I’m kind of a brick wall when it comes to clocking if someone is attracted to me, but the museum text indicates a level of personal interest that even I might have tumbled to. Regardless: I would have absolutely been overwhelmed by the amount of text messages from someone in a volunteer group after one meeting, and I doubt i’d return after that! At best, it would signal to me that there was an expectation for a level of communication that I absolutely would never been able to meet

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  60. OldTiredRN*

    I was a docent at a local museum when another docent started hanging around for my tours. They began dropping me notes and leaving books in my museum mail box. I finally said I was married and they didn’t take the hint. I quit the docent gig because they wouldn’t leave me alone. I’m a bisexual woman and this was another woman.

    Leaving was the only way I could shake the Single White Female creepiness. I asked the organization for help but they felt this person was too valuable to offend. Fine, fixed it for you.

    Too much contact OP. It’s very scary on the receiving end.

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  61. ILoveBlueberryPopTarts*

    OP writes “She’s the only other woman I know” which leads me to guess the OP is also female. OP did you ever consider that she’s straight and doesn’t share your attraction? I’m a female and if I was on the receiving end of these texts I would be very confused if the attempted connection was romantic or platonic. I would not respond rather than running the risk that I’ve misred the situation.

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      I’m a bi woman and I still wouldn’t be receptive to that. Even when I was single. It’s about context and of course just because someone shares an orientation doesn’t mean they’re going to be receptive to that kind of attention.

      Reply ↓
    2. Other Fish*

      I’m gonna be real with you there’s about a zero percent chance that a lesbian or bisexual woman hasn’t considered that a woman she’s interested in but doesn’t know well could be straight. Hope this puts your mind at ease

      Reply ↓
    3. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      That was my thought. Because I’m 100% straight I’m not sure I would pick up on another woman coming on to me, I’d be more likely to think she is one of those people that if you become friends with them they are super clingy and want more of my time than I would ever be comfortable with.

      Reply ↓
    4. Fort hiss*

      Listen, I agree that this OP is way out of line, but asking someone who’s not straight if it’s occurred to them that some people are straight is hilarious. Uh, yeah, I’m sure it has.

      Reply ↓
    5. Starbuck*

      Regardless of that, LW met her for an hour – I doubt she even knows if this woman is single! Good lord. Not that it matters either way when she clearly isn’t interested.

      Reply ↓
  62. Box of Rain*

    I’ll admit, I’m really attracted to her, but I still wanted to get to know her regardless of whether or not she’s interested.

    I want to reply to this with clapping hands emoji between each of my words.

    Ask *clap* a *clap* Man *clap* a *clap* ger *clap* is *clap* not *clap* a *clap* da *clap* ting *clap* column. *clap*

    And your professional organization is not a dating site either. What you are doing is harassment. Please stop.

    Reply ↓
  63. Name Nerd*

    LW, I am going to come at this with some compassion as sometimes I also have to have unwritten social rules spelled out for me.

    First piece of advice: There is a book out there called The Science of Making Friends that is good to use to read up on unwritten social rules. Repeatedly contacting someone without a response back is breaking a social rule. Even if you do everything “right” someone could still decide they don’t want to be friends or interact further, and we have to respect that decision.

    So, it was “right” that you waited until this person gave you her contact information, and you didn’t look up her number without her consent. However, as the book says: “The number of times you can text without a response is three.” So after three texts and no response, you need to stop. Escalating to calling was the wrong thing. There *is* a message in her not responding. It is: “I am not interested in this/you, but I don’t want to say that because it could hurt your feelings.”

    Now it is time to accept that message and move on.

    Reply ↓
  64. CzechMate*

    I think some folks are right that “the only other woman I know” indicates OP may be female. OP, if this is true, I’d invite you to consider that some folks (myself included) initially read your letter imagining a man messaging a woman and consider how that might change your perception/reading of it.

    I might add also that reaching out to someone who you met in a professional or somewhat “official” setting with personal intent (whether that be romantic or just friendly) is always going to be a little iffy. I’d just let it go for now, OP. If you run into her in-person, it might also be wise to keep a respectful distance, or, if you start talking, to apologize for bombarding her with messages.

    Reply ↓
  65. lou*

    OP, I’m a queer woman-adjacent person who is sometimes Not Great at picking up on social cues, and I have occasionally gotten a little too enthusiastic with texting a new friend/crush, but this is WAY over the line.
    This reminds me of a woman I chatted to on a dating app several years ago who went from 0-100 in about five minutes. I eventually told her (nicely) that she was coming on way too strong and I wasn’t interested.
    To make a very long story short, a YEAR later she sent me a recording of a song she had written about me (!) which included my full name (!!) and included lines like “Imma fck you real good” (!!!).
    We had never even met and I was genuinely terrified.
    Reading through your messages, I grew steadily more horrified. You’re not quite in recording a song territory yet, but you’re heading that way. Please delete this poor woman’s number.

    Reply ↓
  67. other*

    I have a lot of thoughts. I recommend clarifying intentions and interest when exchanging numbers in the future to make sure you’re both on the same page (is this related to the organization, is it about peer mentorship, is it about trying to be irl friends, etc.). I’m not sure the context in which y’all exchanged numbers, but your first couple texts make it very clear you’re either flirting or trying to be friends. Maybe she wasn’t looking for that. Or, maybe she was and she got terribly busy and then all the other texts and voicemail and teams invite and linkedin request made her feel like she was being chased in the virtual woods and she reevaluated.

    I agree with everyone that, in the future, you should wait to see if energy is being matched instead of trying more and more types of contact thinking you might finally hit on the one that will break through.

    Also, more personally, I recommend reading Dean Spade’s Love in a F*cked up World. It very much so sounds like you fell for an idea of this person. You admitted you didn’t even get a chance to know her yet, so your level of interest has less to do with her and more to do with the ideas you made up in your head about how her presence in your life (in whatever capacity) would change X, Y, and Z.

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  68. hypoglycemic rage (she/her)*

    I am cringing reading this….. because I used to be that person. I had a former coworker who I would talk to at work and then I tried to talk to her outside of work too, via text; sometimes she would respond, sometimes not (it was about a book series I was reading that she had read too). I probably should have picked up on what the lack of response meant. But she interacted with me at work same as always.

    It was purely platonic, unlike this letter writer, and I def did not do it like this/as many times, but still. At the time, I was really desperate for friends (still am but now I know better), and it is hard to make them as an adult.

    LW, I say this kindly, you need to back off.

    Reply ↓
    1. Starbuck*

      Right, it’s so tough to find that balance of enthusiasm for making a new friend and knowing that it does actually require a lot of effort and contact to make that happen beyond just the acquaintance level. It’s hard! People are busy so sometimes that yes you kind of need to push for it…. but if it’s not mutual you’re wasting your time. Sadly, not every cool person you click with has the room in their life for a new friend.

      Reply ↓
  69. Sparkles McFadden*

    I’m going to try to be kind here LW. Please try to put yourself in this person’s place. Imagine some casual contact you’ve had while out living your life. Let’s say you signed up for a discount card at a local store and you gave your phone number. The next day, you get a text from the store manager. The store manager has also sent you a LinkedIn invitation. Then it happens again, and again and again, until you get a voicemail from said store manager, all within a span of two weeks. You may be tempted to think “That’s not the same thing at all” but it absolutely is the same thing. It’s someone taking information given for *business purposes* and using it for *personal* reasons. That is what you are doing. You, yourself, do not deny this. You wrote into Alison pretty much to ask if you can keep contacting this person.

    You need to cut it out. All of it. Don’t text, don’t call, don’t contact her on social media, and do NOT approach her at any of the events. This is too much. You don’t think it’s too much because you are only thinking about what YOU want. You are not considering how disturbing it is to be contacted so very many times. Texts followed by a phone call is escalation, and that’s frightening. The clear message is “You didn’t answer my texts so now I am going to call you to try to make you respond to me.” So stop it. Just stop it. You’ll probably want to “apologize” because, for you, an apology will be another opportunity to make contact and explain why you keep doing what you’re doing. The best apology is to leave her alone. Delete her contact information RIGHT NOW and let this go.

    Reply ↓
    1. H.Regalis*

      You don’t think it’s too much because you are only thinking about what YOU want.

      That’s the thing. I’ve been on the receiving end of this and it’s scary because I can’t trust the other person to take no for an answer in any situation. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re an ax-wielding psychopath but when you’ve already demonstrated that you only care about what you want, you have the lost the benefit of the doubt.

      OP, I have also been on your end of this and I have scared people off too, both friends and crushes. Being rejected sucks, but hounding this woman is not going to make her want to go out with you. Nothing is going to make her want to go out with you. Leave her alone and focus on meeting more people so that every situation doesn’t feel like, “OMG last chance for a relationship YOU MUST DATE ME.”

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  70. Shay*

    “(On her end, it’s an opportunity for her to meet other members and learn things about the organization, but also a chance for me to hang out with her again.)”

    That part rubbed me the wrong way. Leave her alone.

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  71. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

    I almost wonder if the OP thinks that, because she is a woman contacting another woman, there can’t have the same level of scariness or ick than if she were a man approaching a woman in the same way. This is an absolutely false assumption – I have a lot of boundaries around people in general, and anyone trying to get too close to me too fast sets off clanging alarm bells. I have a close circle of less than 10 friends that I feel comfortable meeting up and hanging out with in person, and new people enter that circle very rarely.

    Not everyone who joins a professional org is looking for a new friend or romantic partner, OP. Sometimes they just want to learn more about their industry and make entirely professional contacts.

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    1. Jennifer Strange*

      I almost wonder if the OP thinks that, because she is a woman contacting another woman, there can’t have the same level of scariness or ick than if she were a man approaching a woman in the same way.

      I do think that’s part of it, and I think it’s important to make sure the LW knows that even if she weren’t attracted to this woman this would still be too much. Hell, even if she was approaching this strictly as a business connection and wasn’t trying to make a new friend, that much contact in such a short amount of time would still be way too much.

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      1. Falling Diphthong*

        It’s too much if the interest is romantic.
        It’s too much if the interest is in making this person your platonic best friend.
        It’s too much if the interest is solely in having her do org stuff with you–just from the “recruiting new members and volunteers” side, this barrage across multiple platforms is going to scare someone off any future contact with your org.

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    2. fish*

      Well said—I tried to say the same below.

      I think there’s some truth to this—I do think it is *typically* less scary/ick. But it is certainly possible to go too far! Which OP has clearly done!

      I have a lot of empathy for OP. This is just a hard thing to learn. But OP, please consider this your lesson—just take it and do better next time. And leave that woman alone.

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    3. Sparkles McFadden*

      I’m with you on having strong boundaries. Contact information obtained for professional reasons should not be used for personal reasons. Yes, people do meet other people through work and personal relationships may morph out of that, but the boundaries really need to be there (and be respected). The assumption that business contacts should be open to contacts of a personal nature should not be the norm.

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    1. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      I was just introduced to the “U-Haul lesbian” trope a few weeks ago. I’m straight but my daughter is queer and mentioned it in regards to someone she was friends with who always jumps in 100% feet first after every meeting.

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  73. MillennialHR*

    After your first text of a meme followed by “great to meet you :)”, she would’ve known you were just interested in her as a potential romantic interest and I suspect that if you search your conscious, that is really your foremost interest, not networking. Her response was out of politeness, and you’re being too pushy because you got one response. Please, please, please do not contact her again. Look for social groups with similar interests if you’re trying to find a partner, not a professional networking organization. I know it is hard out there, but you never know who you’ll meet! Good luck and again, please, leave this poor woman alone. She’s not interested.

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  74. HannahS*

    So, this is a non-profit that involves mentoring children. I can’t tell if it would be for this potential volunteer’s own kids or kids that she works with (“Hi! Just wanted to let you know that Cool Teapot Event is happening on [date] that the kids might want to know about!”)

    Speaking as someone who works with vulnerable children and is a parent: if I get even a WHIFF that there’s anything unprofessional about an organization, I don’t trust them. If I met someone whom I approached as a fellow professional and they blew my phone up with repeated attempts to get my attention, I wouldn’t trust them with my kid or the kids in my care. I don’t think other commenters have really picked up on the fact that you went from trying to access her personally and professionally, to then indicating that you want to bring her kids into the organization. As a parent, that’s anywhere from annoying to terrifying. I met you once and haven’t even replied to your texts; why are you trying to get to my kids?

    If you show that you have a poor sense of boundaries with me, a fellow adult with the power to ignore you, I don’t know what lines you’ll cross with a kid. What kind of mentor are you trying to be? Are you going to be overly-familiar with them? Will you pressure them into doing things they aren’t comfortable with? Will you hide things from me? I can handle myself in situations where I feel that the other person has unclear intentions or is unprofessional, but the kids I’m responsible for can’t.

    I think you’ve realized that your behaviour was inappropriate, and that’s a good thing. It’s clear that your excitement over meeting someone you liked and were attracted to interfered with your judgment. It’s time to delete her number and reflect on what your goals are in the organization and the youth you serve. It’s not a social club, and it’s not your dating pool; if you’re looking for those things

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    1. Observer*

      Good point about this being an organization that mentors children.

      That makes this umpteen times worse. LW, as a parent, grandparent, and a person who just thinks that kids should be safe, I am *really* concerned that you work with kids. And even more that you *mentor* them. Not because I think you would purposely harm them. But because you are showing *terrible* judgement, which is not what you want in someone who works with children and mentors them. But also because you do not seem to have the faintest sense of appropriate boundaries or any ability to read personal / social cues. That’s also pretty dangerous for kids.

      Which is all to say that if I experienced this, or heard about it, I would absolutely look differently at the organization. And if I had the opportunity to report it and they did not do something about it? Yeah, I’m totally not trusting them ever again. And I’m passing it on to others.

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      1. HannahS*

        I will qualify and say, in fairness to the OP, I actually didn’t write my comment assuming that the OP isn’t a good mentor or effective in other parts of their job.

        I do know people who are awkward or make poor decisions or kind of lose their heads when they have a crush who are totally fine with kids; they get the rule and boundary. What I AM saying is that if the only contact we had was this exchange, I would not trust her or the organization because it’s the only information I had.

        I’ll give an example: I’ve had a couple of encounters with an non-profit; imagine that they run music lessons/camps, have a gift shop, and also run one-off events. I like their mission. Three years ago, I signed up for an event that they said was stroller-accessible, but it turned out not to be. I got an apology. A few months ago, I ordered something from their gift shop but they only sent half the order. When I pointed it out, they apologized and sent the rest. Then, I got an email that was clearly meant only for the parents of the summer camp kids which had pictures and names of campers. I sent an email to the sender and their boss, got a lengthy feelings-apology, and now I will never, ever enroll my kid in one of their programs. I get it, it seems like none of these things are a big deal. I’m sure the individual people who work there are well-meaning. But they are disorganized, things slip through the cracks, and now I don’t trust them! That’s how little it takes, as a parent, to erode my trust in an organization.

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        1. Zap R.*

          I once got a “feelings-apology” from a non-profit that I admired and it really soured it me on them. (A guest speaker went wildly off the rails at an event and said a bunch of bonkers conspiracy stuff about an illness that I have.) It was kinda frustrating because if god forbid I ever needed them for something, I don’t think I’d trust them to do a good job.

          Non-profits operate in an economy of trust.

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      2. A Book about Metals*

        I’m not willing to make the leap that the LW is “dangerous for kids”. Can we tone things down a bit here please

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  76. fish*

    Hey OP, writing to you as one gay woman to another (if that’s indeed the case for you):

    Aside from Beth above, I haven’t seen anyone who’s identified themselves as a gay woman commenting. Lots of other people have said things, and they’re not wrong. It’s harsh but fair—this was Too Much, and likely made your crush uncomfortable.

    I also have a lot of empathy for you, and maybe it will be easier to hear that way. It’s very hard to be the One and Only all the time. It’s so rare to meet someone (especially IRL) where even the outlines of your orientations and interests match up. And we really don’t get a lot of chances to practice this sort of thing and learn to do better.

    There’s a bit of a fallacy among gay women that because we’re not men, we’re exempt from creepy behavior. Like, it’s okay because our intentions are pure, and we’ll process all the bad things away, and we don’t have the same physical and societal imbalances. And there may be some truth to this—I personally have a lot more tolerance this behavior from a woman (but as a lesbian, I’m not necessarily representative here).

    But, I think the lesson that takes gay women longer to learn, is you can still make a wrong move. Tolerance is not infinite. You can creep someone out. Those same rules that apply to men do actually apply to you too!

    Boundaries are the primary issue here, but this may also help you move past this: In my experience, these on-paper coincidences don’t live up to expectations. Encounters with other gay women in the wild have definitely led me to spin these what-if stories (romantic and non-romantic)—except, they never really work out. Omg, my new boss in this super-straight org is a lesbian! Maybe she can mentor me, and her wife seems so cool, maybe we can be friends. Except…new boss turns out to be a casual bigot with no sense of boundaries. (I didn’t need to know how wrong she thinks Catholicism is, and where her parents conceived her!)

    As others have advised, do not contact her again, and with all empathy, I hope you can see how this crossed some boundaries, and that you’ll be able to recognize this in the future. Best of luck!

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  77. tabloidtainted*

    LW, I think we need to know more about what level of contact is typical from you and from your organization to other members of the organization. What falls under your responsibilities? Is it typical for you to reach out via text individually to other folks?

    This context is important because it’s not clear to me if there is an obligation on this colleague to respond. In my volunteer organization, for example, it would extremely odd for me not to respond or be in touch in some way if I did legitimately join the organization.

    Beyond that, in the same way that your attraction to this person is making it more difficult for you to recognize when (and whether) your level of communication has crossed a line, I think commenters here are going to have a tough time measuring their response to your letter. I don’t think your over-texting counts as creepy or harassment, but it would certainly be irritating and come across as odd. Personally, my reaction to receiving those texts would simply be to feel overwhelmed, and I don’t think that helps your cause or the organization you volunteer for.

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  79. Person from the Resume*

    Yes! You probably scared her by coming on way too strong. Your romantic interest is very obvious. She’s not interested and is now scared off from your organization because she’ll encounter overbearing you at it. There are no urgent communications because she’s not going to participate in your organization because of you.

    I suspect that you’re a queer woman, but this really reads like a guy coming on way too strong to a woman he’s interested in but she’s not. This just proves (queer) woman can be too pushy when attracted to someone too too.

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  80. e271828*

    I imagine a few people do respond well to this Golden Retriever level of outreach energy, but in the context of a professional organization it is more like a Boston Dynamics bot. Please leave this woman alone and in the future, when you meet other women in your profession, do not do this.

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  81. Stress*

    If I’m reading it correctly, Just because this involves two women (instead of a guy writing in about a woman), doesn’t make it less creepy, TBH. Like it’s still not okay?

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  82. I should really pick a name*

    What’s the end goal here?

    Are you going to just keep trying different contact methods until you get a response?

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  84. Workerbee*

    Lordy, the cringe just escalated the more I read.

    OP, it’s great that you reached out for advice.

    It’s not so great that you seem to have only done so to get a pass for sending yet more messages.

    Look: You met this woman one time during an hour in which I presume you were also doing other things, since it was a work/working-related meeting. Your whole post reads like you’re basing a whole romance-novel’s worth of imagined & planned interactions on less than 60 minutes.

    Please take her silence as a No and try to move on. I know, she put her number into your phone. You did not give context as to how that happened. I suspect it was done under the guise of legitimate work reasons, or she felt too coerced/awkward to decline. A lot of us are raised to be nice at the expense of our own feelings, after all.

    Leave this woman alone. No, do not even send a message of apology. Use the time instead to reflect on how you may be approaching and reacting to & on other people.

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  85. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

    I’m honestly wondering about what led to her putting your phone number in her phone, LW. Did you ask, or did she? Did you do the “let me call you” thing just to make sure she gave you her actual number? Have you ever done a number exchange like that at any of your org’s previous meetings with other people?

    It’s okay to be attracted to someone. It’s not okay to send them multiple texts OR try to reach them in any way possible while pretending to them that you’re doing it for a professional organization/their benefit.

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  86. Nat20*

    One other thing to keep in mind: her radio silence is enough of an answer in itself, *regardless* of the reason behind it. Whether she’s intentionally ignoring you, or she’s embarrassed, or she meant to reply and is forgetful, or she since changed her number, or she’s in a coma, or she moved to Mars, or whatever — you’re not getting responses in any case, so no matter what it’s past time to stop.

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  87. Raida*

    I’d sent them one last message like:

    Hi, just letting you know what I get the message, you aren’t interested in me reaching out either socially or with [group] info, this’ll be the last one.
    Initially I thought you putting your number in my phone meant you wanted to be friends, hence my initial messages were not formal in tone and I was trying to start a conversation around checking out a museum and then talking shop – I apologise for the misunderstanding.
    Hope you enjoy future [group] events,
    -LW

    I always prefer to just be up front – I thought A meant B, it seems actually C is the case, C = D, D confirmed.

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  88. Pyjamas*

    This letter brings back a cringy memory of the time I got a massive crush on an out-of-town guest at my cousin’s wedding. I spotted him at the rehearsal dinner the night before and decided during the ceremony that he was the man of my dreams. At the reception, I downed glass after glass of champagne and followed him around. Eventually he started trying to hide from me, but I persisted. I ended the night ignominiously by throwing up in the car on my way home.

    Reader, I was 13! (My crush was about 15.) Fortunately my parents were amused and I’ve treated both champagne and crushes with caution ever since. OP, you goofed big-time, but you can learn from this

    Reply ↓

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