is “hey” rude, did our coworker fake-retire, and more

by Alison Green on February 12, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Is “hey” rude?

I have a former boss who asked all staff at a tiny nonprofit not to use the greeting “hey” to her. I think this is imperious and out of touch, at best. What do you think?

It’s a bit much, but there’s a fairly outdated belief that “hey” is rude — remember those teachers and other elders from your youth who would respond to “hey” with “hay is for horses”? Was she a “hay is for horses” person clinging to old rules around the word, or was she more of a “don’t speak casually to me, peons” person? The former is a little eye-rolly, but whatever; the second is much more obnoxious.

2. Did our coworker fake-retire?

I worked at a hospital where a long-time employee in my department retired— she was over 65 and had worked there for 30+ years. The department held a retirement party with the boss’s own funds since the hospital didn’t provide discretionary funds for this kind of stuff. It was a nice send-off and everyone wished her well.

Then about a month or so later, word gets around that actually she wasn’t retired and had just gotten a new job at the VA, which is where many of the folks in this department try to get to because the pay is so much better there. No one in leadership mentioned anything about it but you could sense that people were really annoyed and felt like they’d been duped. I know many people get jobs again after they’ve retired, but this was so immediate that it was obviously lined up beforehand. What are your thoughts on the optics of this?

Any chance the departing employee was using “retiring” in the sense of “I am retiring from this job where I have worked for 30+ years” and not in the more traditional sense of “I am retiring from the workforce”?

There was an interesting discussion in the comment section on Monday about whether “retired” can simply mean “leaving this job,” not “leaving the workforce.” It typically does not — but when someone is around retirement age and leaving a job they’ve been at for a very long time, it does sometimes get used that way. (You generally need both those factors to be present though; no one is saying a 35-year-old is retiring when she leaves a job she’s been at for eight years. The age and length of tenure both seem to be prerequisites for the usage to work.)

Anyway, it really depends on whether your coworker went out of her way to deceive people. If she was talking about how much she was going to enjoy not having to go to work every day and her plans to spend her time gardening and taking Elderhostel trips, all while knowing she was just moving to another full-time job, then yeah, that’s obviously pretty crappy! It would also be unusual for someone to do that just in order to get a retirement party. (Any chance there was another reason she might have wanted to keep it quiet, like worrying about a manager at your hospital torpedoing her chances at the new job?) But if it was just an announcement that she was leaving, and others were the ones who framed it as “retirement” out of an assumption based on her age … well, she might have figured she was retiring from this organization after 30 years so didn’t see any need to correct anything.

Either way, you’re all better off just looking at it as a goodbye party for someone who had worked there for three decades.

3. Frustrations with business voicemail and a claims process

I have been dealing with my insurance company for a claim I filed. I received an email (from a do-not-reply account) that my case was assigned to “Mary Smith” and I would be receiving a call from her on such and such a date between 9:30 am and 11:30 am from a specific phone number. On the bottom of my account page with this company, her name is listed as my claim manager.

As I had a dentist appointment that day at 8 am, I called her number and left a message to please call closer to 11:30 as I had an appointment that morning. My concern is her voicemail was a very generic “the person you are trying to reach is not available, please leave a message after the tone.” No mention of her name or the company’s name.

She called me later in the morning that day, never mentioned anything about my message that I had left for her, and we conducted the interview. She needed some clarification on some dates and asked me to call back when I had that information. I called back a day later with the info and the same thing, went to voicemail with the generic greeting. I didn’t hear anything from her confirming she received the information. Four days later, I called and left another message asking if she got the info and to please call me back to confirm. Nothing.

A few days later, my account was updated to “claim review in process” and I received an email saying a decision should be made with in five business days, and day days later the claim was approved.

How do you deal with a situation like this? I still have no idea if my messages were being received by the case manager or even if it was her voicemail I was leaving the message in. Or am I being “needy” by expecting at least some response following any contact to her?

Maybe a little needy, yeah, if you’re still dwelling on it now. It sounds like their process worked as it should: you left a message asking her to call you in the later part of your assigned window and she did that. You followed up with info she requested, and she used it to process your claim, which was approved in the timeframe you were told to expect. It sounds like it caused you some extra anxiety not to get any acknowledgement of either of your messages, whereas on her side the “acknowledgment” was likely that she used the info you provided to move things forward.

If things weren’t moving and your messages were going unacknowledged, that would be a lot more frustrating — but since things did move as expected, there was nothing to “deal with.” You would have preferred more communication, but it sounds like the case manager knew, likely from experience, that things could move smoothly without it. (In fact, it’s even possible that things moved so smoothly because she doesn’t stop to return every message people leave if she doesn’t need to.)

To be clear, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that you expected more communication while this was ongoing — but once you saw that everything went smoothly and your claim was approved, why not just think, “Okay, that worked fine”?

4. Coworker keeps coming into my office and distracting me

One of my coworkers who works for a different company comes into my office multiple times per day and distracts me from my work. I hung a “please do not disturb” sign but that didn’t stop him, so eventually I switched to a sign that says “do not disturb — please send an email and I’ll respond when I can” but this doesn’t stop him either, even though my door is shut and locked. He knows the PIN to enter my door because my boss gave it away a couple years ago to someone who wanted to decorate my office. I can’t change the PIN and my boss knows this is happening. I have not directly asked him to stop because he will drag it on and on for days and it makes me uncomfortable . Every time he’s done something that’s made me uncomfortable and I’ve said so, that’s what happens.

How do I get my coworker to leave me the F alone? He is stressing me out so badly that it’s impacting my personal life outside of work. I can’t complete as many things in a day as I would like, because he won’t stop bothering me.

You can’t get him to leave you the F alone without directly telling him to. Communicating by sign clearly isn’t working, so you’ve got to speak up: “Please stop entering my office without being invited. It’s breaking my focus and disrupting my work.” And then if he keeps doing it, address it in the moment: “I’m on deadline and can’t talk right now” and “I’m really busy so can’t have you in here.” If he reacts badly to that, then talk to your boss, cite the disruption to your work, and ask to have the PIN changed.

Also, you said he works for a different company. Unless he’s his own boss, can you have a word with his boss over there? Continually using someone’s PIN to enter their office against their will multiple times a day is something any reasonable manager would be glad to put a stop to if asked.

5. Asking about a job that hasn’t been advertised yet

An employee of a company has mentioned that a job may be coming up that might be a good fit for me. I have researched the job on their website but the job has not been posted and I have questions regarding whether I have all the skills for this job.

Would it be showing initiative to inquire to the manager about this possibility and request visiting the site to learn more about the position?

Asking to visit the site to learn more about a job that you haven’t been invited to interview for yet — and which hasn’t even been advertised yet — would be way too much. If they want to spend time talking with you about the position, they will express that by inviting you to interview after you apply and they’ve reviewed your materials and determined you’re a strong enough candidate to move forward. But none of that has happened yet.

If you felt more certain that you would be a strong fit for the job, you could maybe email the hiring manager with your resume and say you heard that job might be opening up and you’d love to be considered when it is … but with a job where you’re not even sure you’re qualified and which hasn’t been posted yet, and you really just want to learn more about it, that’s going to feel like overkill, not initiative (or at least not appropriate initiative, which is an important modifier on that word). If you know the employee who originally mentioned the job, you could ask them if they know when it’s likely to open up, but otherwise just keep watching for it.

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  1. Certaintroublemaker*

    To LW2, it also makes a big difference if your workplace has a pension/retirement benefits program. Then it doesn’t mean “golfing & book clubs” so much as “eligible for benefits.”

    I work at a state university where we get vested in the state retirement system. It’s very common for people to retire from the university when they’ve reached the requisite years/points, and then go on to another job. I think it’s even more common in the military, where retirement can happen at 20 years of service, and you can go on to have a complete other career afterwards.

    1. Samwise*

      Came here to say just this. If you resign, you don’t get access to your pension or your retirement account (such as TIAA CREF). You have to actually do all the retirement paperwork.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        I completely agree. It’s entirely reasonable to “retire” when you’re eligible for retirement benefits or a pension and then take on another job. (And I love hearing about people who have successfully “retired” from multiple careers—military, public service, etc.—and can stack those benefits. High five!)

        What frustrates me is when companies frame it as “retirement” when they’re actually pushing someone out who still wants or needs to work. I’ll never forget seeing a 64-year-old colleague crying in the bathroom at her so-called retirement party because she couldn’t afford to retire yet and was terrified no one would hire her at her age. But the organization got to save face and eat cake.

        Maybe it’s just a pet peeve, but I also find it a bit odd when people say they’ve “retired” after getting married or having kids. No judgment on their choice, but calling it retirement after just six years in the workforce feels like a stretch.

        1. Rainy*

          My dad retired from a career in public health with the state after more than 25 years of service when my mom got a job in another state. He’d intended to write, which he did, but he became bored almost immediately and approached a local newspaper about writing the occasional opinion piece. They liked his work and asked him to write a regular column. Then their parent organization asked him to write for their flagship paper in a nearby city. My mom moved from federal to state employment in her field and they moved back to their original state. Dad strolled into the office of the local weekly with his folder of writing samples; the paper was owned by a pal of his dad’s, and they needed a new reporter. Dad learned to take photos when the photographer got a new job. He put in 20 years at the paper before retiring again. He was recognized by the state legislature for his contributions to journalism. He’s now actually retired and draws three pensions: from his Army career, his career with the state, and his journalism career.

        2. Cassie*

          I had a coworker that was being laid off – she had seniority and could have bumped another coworker, but the other job required more manual labor which she could not do. The dept framed it as a retirement to save face (for her and the dept, I guess). They even sent out an invite for a retirement party for her. She came to me in tears because a) she was being laid off; and b) she absolutely did not want a party. She was a low-key person who would absolutely hate being the center of attention under all circumstances, much less a forced retirement.

          I told her to tell the dept organizer that she did not want a party – too bad that you already sent out invites, now you get to cancel it. While the dept has the right to make business decisions, they should have used some compassion and checked with the employee to see if she wanted a party.

      2. Anne of Green Gables*

        Exactly. I am a public/state employee, which means that after a certain combination of years of service and my age, I qualify for a retirement pension. There’s a formula of age/years worked, but you are eligible at any age once you’ve worked 30 years.

        I’m also in a metro area that includes 2 different states. It is incredibly common for someone to work their 30 years in one state, retire and therefore get the pension from that state, and get a job in the same sector in the other state.

        My sector includes k-12 education, higher education at state institutions & community colleges, and local government. Some of these tend to have people who start there early in their career. My previous boss reached his 30 years at age 54. If I stay with an eligible employer, I’ll reach my 30 years when I’m 58.

        1. The Rural Juror*

          Many people at my job working for county government have retired, then after the required “waiting period” have come back to work part time. We have a stipulation on how many hours we can work (max 20/wk) while drawing benefits. Most can’t afford to fully retire :/
          Some come back to our office because it’s what they know and love. Others find related work in the private sector.

        2. StephChi*

          I had a corporate career for 15 years, went back to get a master’s degree in education, and am now two years and change away from being able to retire. I’ll be 60 and will have 22 years in my school district. Thanks to recent legislation signed by President Biden, I’ll actually get all of my Social Security along with my pension. However, since I’ll drive myself crazy if I don’t have somewhere to be most days, I’m going to be a sub. I can decide which schools and grades, and can work up to 140 days per school year without threatening my pension.

          At least I hope this is how it will turn out. I work at a Title 1 school with a high number of students with IEPs and also a lot of English learners. When Trump guts the Department of Education we are going to be impacted since we get funding from the federal government because of those factors. Ugh.

    2. hummingbird*

      As former military and someone who has worked at companies that have eligible for benefits at certain age + years of service, today’s question (answer).and yesterday’s discussion surprised me. Another example of things varying by industry or company size.

      1. Kay*

        I think the difference is that it is usually referred to as “retire from” (niche usage) vs simply retire. The overall usage is for working vs not so if you are doing it to collect benefits it is more of a technicality than a standard use. Even for the military if you said retired from the military it doesn’t automatically mean you went on to do anything else in the way of work.

    3. allathian*

      Yes, or in the (publically funded) arts. The Finnish National Ballet has a mandatory retirement age of 45 for dancers, with a state pension. A few years ago, a former prima ballerina went viral with her announcement of a post-retirement baby. She had stored her eggs, retired at 45, and got pregnant almost immediately afterwards. I don’t think anyone stops working when they retire at that age, though. The state pension and free college tuition mean that many of them go to college after retirement to do a whole new career until they really retire, given that there are only so many ballet-adjacent jobs (choreographer, teacher, etc.) available.

      1. Nebula*

        This is really interesting, thank you for sharing! That’s such a different way of doing things to my own (British) cultural context.

    4. Can’t think of anything clever*

      I worked for local government for years. When people were vested in the pension plan the people who managed the plan would try to persuade people to “retire” rather than “resign” and stay vested in the plan. After all, you never know where life will take you and in a few years you’re back in a government job. That way you didn’t have to start over. Still couldn’t collect a pension for a long time though.

      1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

        We had something similar at one of my old companies. They offered early retirement to people 55 and over (who were obviously the most highly paid people). One of of our Executive Directors took the offer, retired, and then immediately joined a competitor as a VP. I believe he stayed there for 10 years.

        He may have also gotten a party. If so, no one begrudged him. He earned it!

    5. GammaGirl1908*

      Coming to say this. To me, retirement means [taking advantage of certain benefits that come with leaving a position], not necessarily [never going to work again]. Plenty of people intentionally line up retirement jobs.

      People also retire for a number of reasons that aren’t about age. People retire from the military after a certain number of years of service. People can retire medically from jobs or other positions. Athletes retire from competition, both individual events as well as their careers, and sometimes they are, like, 25 when that happens.

      It means they’re going to stop doing this thing for some reason, but I wouldn’t split hairs about how soon they get to do something else.

    6. SarahBee*

      I had the same thought- at our hospital, you can’t collect on your 401K unless you quit working here completely. So some of the staff will “retire” and then find another job to supplement their retirement income.

      1. 401k*

        You can collect from the 401(k) after retiring? It’s not supposed to work that way. It’s supposed to be strictly age based.

        1. KateM*

          That’s not what SarahBee said – they said that one can’t collect 401K unless they retired from the hospital, not that one can collect 401K as soon as they retired from the hospital.

        2. Colonel Gateway*

          A lot of people withdraw from their non-pension retirement plans after they leave the jobs those accounts are tied to. Yes, there may be associated penalties, but that’s just how the accounts function anymore.

        3. Fluffy Fish*

          SarahBee didn’t say anyone who retires can immediately start drawing from the their 401k. Not to mention after a 30 year career its perfectly reasonable that the person OP is referring to is age eligible.

        4. Pescadero*

          Nope… there is an exception to the 59.5 age to withdraw without penalty. The “Rule of 55” – If you turn 55 (or older) during the calendar year you lose or leave your job, you can begin taking distributions from your 401(k) without paying the early withdrawal penalty.

          …and you can continue to do so, even if you get another job.

          There are also hardship exemptions to the 59.5 age to withdraw without penalty depending on the 401k/403b plan in question.

    7. Dread Pirate Roberts*

      Yes exactly this. In most places I’ve worked, if you left a job past a certain you would technically retire rather than resign, and there are certain retirement benefits you get, and people often make a fuss because you’re closing out that part of your career … or they assume you are. And then some people go into another full time job, or a consulting career, or whatever, so they aren’t retired in the more casual use of the word. It’s not deceptive it’s just different understandings of the word and the person’s future plans being their business to share or not.

    8. AlsoADHD*

      Yeah since it was a hospital system, which can still have retirement programs in this manner, that’s what I thought of as well!

    9. Dog momma*

      ^ this. and why is LW#2 so concerned? The person retired from job #1 after 30 yrs so she could get her pension etc. She not getting anything extra by staying longer. and found another job, with probably better benefits, time off, maybe more pay or flexibility. its NOYB actually. H The person that left has done nothing wrong.

      1. Mairead*

        Yup, I really don’t understand the ‘really annoyed’ and ‘duped’ responses. Maybe the ‘retiree’ was being cagey because she was worried about possible sabotage of the new job. Or maybe she genuinely did intend to retire but changed her mind. Either way, a nice sendoff after 30+ years of service seems entirely reasonable to me.

        1. Sneaky Squirrel*

          Yes, she either qualified for retirement benefits or she didn’t. What she chose to do after her retirement was her business. People decide retirement isn’t for them all the time and go back to work. I don’t understand why anyone would be annoyed or feel duped. Because they held a party and wished her well which cost money out of someone’s budget? I think the company can live with the fact that they spent a little bit of money on someone who worked with the company for 30 years.

            1. Saturday*

              I would have assumed they paid for her to have a nice send off because she worked there for 30+ years, not because she was never going to work again.

        2. Anonymous Fed*

          Yeah, I thought people resenting a party (that they did not pay for!) for someone who had worked there for 30 years was a bit churlish.

        3. not nice, don't care*

          In my state agency, highly paid & privileged people (usually older white men) in administrative positions retire so they can come back after the mandated waiting period to jobs hand-crafted for them in the same agency. It’s called double-dipping, and causes budget issues to flow down stream and also keeps younger/newer folk from getting hired or moving up in pay/position.

          1. Hot Flash Gordon*

            Yup, that happened in my mom’s state agency and it was bananas. Also, this is a deeply red state that likes to pontificate about small government….

        4. Southern Violet*

          Yeah its a manifestation of the American tendency to go “I dont want to people to have one cent/one party more than I think they deserve” which is pretty damn icky. Just let people enjoy their cake, its not your job to judge what people should get.

        5. Rainy*

          I think the most confusing thing for me is that the LW isn’t the boss but seems to be upset that the boss used their own money for the party. Like…if it wasn’t LW’s money, why would LW care?

          I also sort of wonder if the VA job is part-time and thus is actually more of an encore career type job than a ft job would have been, and the retired colleague took it for that purpose.

      2. learnedthehardway*

        Seriously! What business is it of anyone’s whether the coworker “actually” retired or claimed their EARNED benefits, nominally retired, and took another job?!?!

        Why should the coworker forego benefits they are entitled to received and for which they have put in the work to achieve?!!?

    10. WindmillArms*

      I used to work for a military subcontractor and our subject matter experts were always retired military personnel. It never seemed strange to me; they had full-time office jobs just like mine, but they were retired *from the military*. Usually they were late forties to early fifties when starting at the private company, so they could easily have another 20 years of regular working life while also being retired.

    11. doreen*

      Yes – there are slightly different ways to use the word “retire” but I think what all of them have in common is the ability to collect some form of retirement income/benefits whether it’s a pension or Social Security or the equivalent.

    12. Fluffy Fish*

      10000%.

      Also many many many people who are retired continue to work PT or FT and a job they consider less work. They don’t want to sit at home but they don’t want their old career. So even if she didn’t technically retire according to benefits, its not at all weird for someone to retire and still work.

      1. Landry*

        Yep. A family member retired from the postal service after 30+ years and then worked part-time at a hospital gift shop. One of my coworkers retired at 70 and now is an adjunct professor at a local college.

      2. Cassie*

        Some of my coworkers are planning to work at Old Navy or Trader Joe’s after they retire :) They want to get employee discounts.

        1. Hot Flash Gordon*

          Just an FYI – Trader Joe’s is a pretty physical job (I worked there part time for about 4 years) and can be tough on the body unless you’re already pretty fit or used to retail. Lifting heavy boxes of product and breaking down pallets is tough work (although most managers won’t assign that stuff to folks who can’t reasonably fulfill that task. I was shocked at how tired and sore I was after my first shift.
          Don’t get me wrong, the pay is pretty good for the type of work (2 raises per year and premium pay to work Sundays and they offer benefits for full time staff). The environment is fun and varied (I wasn’t just stuck behind the register, you would work a different section of the store every hour). I had to quit during COVID because my feet were falling apart from standing for 8 hours, my shoulder was starting to have problems from lifting heavy boxes (cases of frozen rice made my back beg for mercy) and my mental health was going down the crapper because customers are terrible (especially during the height of the panda). I really hated to leave because the discount was fantastic (20% off everything, even wine).

    13. Student*

      My mom took an “early retirement” buyout from a company when she was 35. She “retired” from that job but went on to work for another nearly 30 years.

      1. Pounce de Lion*

        but she probably wasn’t the guest of honor at a party in which everyone wished her well in her retirement and commented about gardening and Elderhostel

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          We don’t know that the retiree in this case did that, either. And there’s nothing wrong with being a guest of honor at a party for someone who is leaving a job after 30 years. 30 years! That’s the kind of thing that often gets a send-off even if it’s not for retirement.

      2. doreen*

        I’m not sure what an “early retirement buyout” even means for a 35 year old. Whenever I’ve seen an “early retirement” buyout, it’s meant something like giving people two extra years of pension credit so they can retire at 55 with 28 actual years of service rather than the 30 that are normally required. The only ones I’ve seen for people in their 30s are straight cash buyouts that have nothing to do with retirement – the one I barely missed would have given me $10K in cash and I had to agree to pay it back if I got re-hired.

    14. L*

      I was going to say something similar. I work in the labour movement, and many people at my org. have been here decades, if not their entire careers. It’s very common here, once someone hits the magic number of age + years of service, for them to retire (as in go through the formal retirement mechanism and begin collecting their pension, rather than simply resigning) and go on immediately to start another job, often in an adjacent organization. We still throw them a retirement party. I wouldn’t bat an eye.

      (Heck, because I started so young, I will be eligible to retire before I turn 50. I probably won’t, but if I did, I’d definitely want to have a new job lined up first!)

    15. HR Exec Popping In*

      Exactly. In the HR world, “retired” means eligible for retirement benefits – not that you are no longer going to work. Depending on the organization’s retirement benefits, she may have indeed been classified as “retired” upon her separation. From a benefits perspective, she is likely eligible to start pulling retirement income and could also be eligible for other benefits (for example, retiree healthcare or other perks) and is therefore a “retiree” of your organization.

      I seriously doubt any of this was nefarious. She worked there for 30 years! And if she elects to continue working somewhere else then good for her. I don’t know why someone “retiring” and continuing to work would bother anyone.

    16. GenXHuman*

      Came here to say this as well. It’s some kind of years of service + age formula. Sadly, our public university doesn’t link to the state pension system so I’ll never know have that retirement problem!

    17. Lissa Landon*

      This exactly – retirement is a step you take when you have fulfilled the requirements and vested in the benefits plan. If is just a different thing than resigning. And generally, when people have been there for that amount of time, people do want to wish them well. When retirements happen at my place of work, we’re all interested to know what comes next for them, with the full understanding that might mean taking it easy, traveling, taking care of the grandkids, or getting another job.

    18. StressedButOkay*

      Also, as someone who grew up with government folks, retiring and then finding another job is so so common. My father was able to retire – actually retire – from his government job after 30+ years, and was hired on as a contractor about a year later after he took some time off. (Most have contractor jobs already lined up.)

      I didn’t even blink when I was reading that – except at the part that people are annoyed! Life is expensive and “retiring” doesn’t look the same as it used to.

      1. Rock Prof*

        My dad did the exact same thing: retiring from his federal (US) job after 30 years, then working for a rotating set of contractors on the exact same site for almost ten more years.

      2. Alice*

        I think OP is a little out of pocket to be annoyed about the “potentially unwarranted” expense of the “retirement” party. Resigning after 30 years warrants a celebration too IMO! But TBH I also get a little tetchy (internally only I promise) when someone who has a defined benefit pension retires, starts receiving their pension, and then gets another job. Not at that person individually — their actions are perfectly reasonable — but at the employers that have switched from defined benefit to defined contribution retirement plans. “My generation won’t have pensions, *and* we have to compete against employees who can accept lower salaries because they are already getting pensions” is what my inner monologue complains.

        1. doreen*

          Don’t know if this will help your internal monologue – but the people I know who retire and get another job are either getting a similar job to the one they left for similar pay on an hourly or daily basis or they are taking a completely different , lower paid job that wouldn’t be suitable as someone’s sole source of income ( for example, school crossing guards who work 4 or so hours a day ). They really aren’t accepting less pay than other people competing for the same job.

          1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

            This is what my dad did. He retired from his career and now works as a school crossing guard and works at their church a few hours a week.

    19. a clockwork lemon*

      This was my thought too. I think a lot of people don’t necessarily realize that it’s both legal and pretty common for people to “retire” and take their retirement benefits on schedule because they vest at X years of service then continue working elsewhere either because they need or want to.

    20. Charlotte Lucas*

      Yep. Super common in government jobs. People sometimes get contract positions afterwards or just go to the private sector.

      My mom retired from her job but then went back for a few months as a seasonal contractor. (Very common and appreciated at her job. It meant the seasonal help didn’t need a lot to get up to speed.)

    21. AFac*

      In many universities, professors can retire, get benefits…and then after ~6 months come back to the same university and continue work as emeriti. There are a few differences, mostly regarding pay and service requirements, but if they want to, they can teach, mentor students, work on grants, etc.

      In most cases, we do have a ‘party’ (crackers and cheese and a plaque presentation), and in many cases, we do speculate about what fun they’re going to have with all their free time–even when we know that after 6 months we’ll be seeing them around the halls again.

    22. Bunch Harmon*

      This was my first thought. I have a teacher friend who lives right on a state border. There’s reciprocity with the other state in terms of teaching certifications. Apparently it’s really common for teachers to teach 30 years, get their pension, and then teach in the neighboring state until they are old enough for Medicare.

    23. Ess Ess*

      Exactly this. She DID retire. Based on her age and years of employment at the hospital, she did officially retire from that position which means she gets the extra benefits when she leaves the position. I don’t know why OP is upset about this or even why upset about a party. This was a coworker that was there for 30+ years so even if the employee was changing jobs, would you not have celebrated the person’s long-time impact on the hospital??

    24. NothingIsLittle*

      This exactly! But also, any chance she’s volunteering/working part-time to help transition to or keep her busy in her retirement? I know many seniors who volunteer full-time or have low-stress jobs just for something to do all day.

    25. AJB*

      Yes, I’m in a similar spot in public education. I’ll be in my mid fifties when I can retire from teaching but I will likely do something else for at least a few years after I retire from teaching.

    26. HBJ*

      Yup. I know a surprising number of people who started a job, put in their 20 years, “retired” at 20 years and then started another job elsewhere.

      To me, retiring is two-pronged. It’s either leaving the workforce entirely, or it’s leaving a job once you’ve achieved full “retirement” benefits after putting in 20 years or whatever, regardless of whether you go on to another job.

    27. LifebeforeCorona*

      Right, my friend “retired” at age 55. After waiting out the mandated year, they returned to the same role on a parttime basis. The work still needed to be done but the Powers That Be couldn’t get funding for a fulltime position.

    28. Pay no attention...*

      This is how I think of retirement in general — it’s paperwork and collecting benefits from an employer, not a total lifestyle change unless you choose for it to be and have that financial privilege.

      At my private university, it seems to be a thing for long-time professors or administrators to retire officially after the required number of years — big party and all — and still stay on for special projects; mostly assisting with accreditation or curriculum development. Their institutional knowledge and experience is valuable, but they’re not interested in being a professor any more.

    29. SpecialSpecialist*

      Heck, in our college system it’s not unusual for people to retire from their full-time positions after 30 years (or at the requisite age, could be either one), wait the required 6 months, and then come right back to work a part-time position with us. They get their retirement benefits from the first position and now get another income from the second one.

      When I was just out of college my co-worker had retired with 30 years at Bell Telephone, but was working full-time at our non-profit. A few years after I left, he retired from the non-profit and then went to work for Volvo. I don’t know how many pensions this guy ended up with, but he retired multiple times.

      I don’t think “retired” actually means “will never work regularly for money again” anymore.

    30. Definitely not me*

      Yes, I was going to say the same. I work for a teachers’ retirement system, and being 65 or older would probably make the LW’s coworker eligible to draw retirement benefits from the hospital’s retirement plan. That’s separate from the VA, which has its own retirement plan. In my world, teachers can “retire” from teaching and, if they worked X number of years, they are eligible to start receiving “retirement” (monthly benefits) if they like, even if they’re younger than this LW’s coworker. Often, their benefit is smaller than those who teach until their 60s or 70s, and many of them embark on a whole ‘nother career somewhere else. There’s nothing weird or misleading about it. This LW’s concern sounds very much like a “mind your own beeswax” situation to me.

  2. Higher-ed Jessica*

    I think another thing that might be going on in L1 is that “hey” has two senses, one of which is a regionalism. There’s greeting “hey,” which is functionally equivalent to “hello.” Then there’s attention-getting “hey,” which is often (outside of such emergency usage as “Hey, your shoes are on fire!”) seen as a rude interruption.

    People who don’t use greeting “hey” tend to interpret it as attention-getting “hey,” and thus always think it’s rude, which is a weird interpretation of a friendly coworker just trying to say hello to you. But it happens.

    I would be very strongly inclined to give a person like this one round of polite explanation of how I was using the word, why they had misunderstood, and that it is a common usage where I come from. All subsequent rounds would involve firm pushback about their regional prejudice.

    1. Tiger Snake*

      Yes, that’s a good way of thinking of it. Hey may not be rude, but it is abrupt.

      That means it works well as part of a head-nod greeting to your coworkers as your power walking to the coffee pot, but that if you’re trying to ask a question you’ve completely ignored the social niceties to see if this is a good time to be interrupted.

      1. Zelda*

        “Greeting hey,” as I have met it, is a Southern thing, meaning that it is the opposite of abrupt. It’s a softly drawn out vowel that lasts longer than a New Englander’s entire “Hello, Bob,” and visits a few different pitches along the way.

        1. Silver Robin*

          from the northeast and absolutely use greeting hey. it is certainly not drawn out but it is pretty similar to hi, just a smidgen more casual. At work, the two get used pretty interchangeably with a slight divergence on formality at the edges of the distributions. I would likely not use hey for anyone above my boss and it took a minute before I even did it with him while our relationship was established.

          2. bamcheeks*

            I am trying so hard to imagine saying “hey” as a greeting and not adding “up” on the end and I can’t do it.

            2. Lenora Rose*

              Watch Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse. I mean, they make the word into a come-on/joke, but the word, without the accompanying body language and tone, is also a normal greeting.

              (Definitely not set in Yorkshire.)

          3. PokemonGoToThePolls*

            From New England and yes, Hey is just a greeting. In a professional setting, you wouldn’t use it alone, but as the start to a question or statement. “Hey, just letting you know that the customer from that ticket we talked about is on the phone asking for you” or “Hey, have you heard from engineering yet?”
            You could use hi, hello, or good morning/afternoon in it’s place (and I usually do use at least good morning if it’s over instant message and it’s the morning), with the most common being hey or hi

            1. PokemonGoToThePolls*

              Adding that, on reflection, I would only use Hey in verbal conversation. For written, I would use Hi if not using good morning, rarely hello, and then always followed by an exclamation point
              Emails are always Hi or Hello

              1. Silver Robin*

                I see them written as well, but exactly the same examples you have. Much rarer in emails, but definitely used in Teams messages, for example. Those usually look like “Hey/hi – what does XYZ mean in this client file?” or “Hey – have you had a chance to update X?”

                Emails are Hi/Hello/Good ____, with a variety of !, -, folks, [group], or [name] as feels correct for that particular email.

                1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

                  I’m old and crusty and my social media is full of “heys”. Unless your boss is in their 70’s, I can’t imagine they grew up in a world where hey was rude. So I’d just chalk this up to annoying quirk.

        2. ferrina*

          IME it’s not regional. I’m heard “hey” used as a greeting in the American South, Midwest, West, and Northeast. It’s less frequent in the NE.

          “Hey” is generally a more casual greeting, and that’s where I’ve seen expectations differ. If a region defaults to more casual language quickly, “hey” is used more frequently and more in professional settings”. But that also depends on industry and localized culture as well.

        3. PhyllisB*

          Yep. Definitely Southern. Or if you want to play Southern Belle, “Hey Y’all!!” (This is used in more of a jokey with friends sense.)
          My daughter moved to the Chicago area and got teased so much for saying hey she finally dropped it. But no one was offended by it.

          1. Broadway Duchess*

            This is probably accent-related. I was born and raised in Chicago and no one would bat an eye. Maaaaybe in the northern ‘burbs, but hey is just another way to say hi in Chicago.

            1. StephChi*

              Another Chicagoan here. Can confirm. Everyone gets a Hey from me: friends, family, co-workers, the boss (who also is a heavy Hey user), and students. Totally normal.

        4. Lenora Rose*

          Canadian: here, it’s not drawn out, it’s usually said in the same tones one would say hi in, and about the same speed.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Interesting! That’s not my association at all. My friends and I joke that “Hellllllooooo there” is the distinctive vocal call of the creep.

      3. ashie*

        Thinking about it, I never hear anyone say “hey” by itself. It’s always “Hey Tom” or “Hey there” or “Hey how’s it goin.” Or if it’s someone you’re very close with maybe “Hey gurl.” The extra syllables soften it somehow.

      4. Ms. Eleanous*

        Is it “Hey Carol” as you walk in her office?
        or yelling “hey” across the room (which I was taught was rude with or without the hey”)?

      5. Jack Russell Terrier*

        I tend to say when greeting someone passing in the hall etc ‘hay, how ya doin’. I think I heard that quit a bit – grew up NYC/LI, old Gen X? It feels less abrupt, but obvs very informal

    2. Greyhound*

      Good point. When I was at school a million years ago and used to get the ‘hay is for horses’ thing ‘hey’ was not used as a greeting, only to get attention. It’s quite likely some people have just not caught on to the more modern usage. I can see how it could be seen as rude – not to me, I use it all the time – but some people just don’t adapt.

      1. Polyhymnia O’Keefe*

        “Straw is cheaper; Grass is free
        Horses eat it; Why don’t we?”

        That’s what I used to get in response to “hey.” More poetic than “hay is for horses”; I suppose?

        1. Kendall^2*

          My dad would say
          “Hay is for horses,
          Better for cows,
          I would eat it, but I don’t know hows”
          (Yeah, bad poetry, but at least sorta poetry.)

          1. anotherfan*

            My version was: hey! “corn is cheaper, grass is free, buy a farm and get all three!” which tells you that prices have certainly changed since when I was young!

      2. HayHayHay*

        “Hay is for horses” used to get “Aren’t you glad you’re a cow?” as a response from me, at least in my head.

      3. learnedthehardway*

        I’d be tempted to switch to something like “All Hail, Glorious Leader”, “Greetings, Sublime One”, or something equally ridiculous.

      4. Butterfly Counter*

        I definitely remember being very young and a teacher responding “Hay is for horses.” I was so completely confused by that statement. I was obviously saying hello or trying to get attention and that was the context everyone around me had been using my whole life. I don’t think I’d ever said “hay” outside of a stable or farming context and I thought my intent was clear.

        It would be the same as me saying, “I’m going to the store,” and someone responding, “Two is the number after one!” Just… what? You know what I meant.

      5. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        It’s not so very modern! It comes up in To Kill a Mockingbird, and that dates back to 1960.

    3. Nodramalama*

      Yeah I’d be interested to know if LW just changes from. “hey” to “hi”, the boss still has issues

        1. Happy meal with extra happy*

          Lol, reminds me of the Philadelphia Eagles (American football) rookie who answered the call from the team’s general manager when he was getting told he would be drafted by them with “what’s up, Big Pimpin’?”

        2. GammaGirl1908*

          That reminds me of the cute little poster floating around with suggestions for gender-neutral greetings for groups, like Theydies and Gentlethems and Epic Humans and Peep-a-Doodles.

          (Also, as once suggested here: Friends, Enemies, and Those Still Under Review.)

          1. Frieda*

            I use “gentlefriends” with students who are being rowdy in a group. As in, “Gentlefriends! Class has started.”

      2. Ant*

        Not LW but I did have a previous manager request that when I was sending out a weekly report to managers that I change my greeting from “hey” to “hi” or “good morning”, with the explanation that “hey” was too informal and casual when addressing people who were higher up than me.

        1. ferrina*

          I agree with this.

          I usually use “Hi” when it’s someone that I don’t have a well-established relationship with, or if I think the email might be forwarded. If it’s someone that I frequently work with and have a much more casual relationship with, I might go to “hey”

        2. Helewise*

          It’s interesting that I’ve seen this come up so many times, that “hey” is too informal for a boss. I’ve never had a problem using it, but am rethinking.

          1. doreen*

            It’s going to depend a great deal on the culture of the employer – I worked at a law enforcement agency where everyone had to stand if an assistant commissioner entered the room. Which caused a lot of problems when a more casual , smaller agency was merged into it.

          2. Lisa*

            “Hey” isn’t rude, but it’s informal/casual so I use it only for people I am on personal friendly terms with. I would use “Hey” with my current boss (because they are not super formal) or peers, but not with anyone higher than them in the org chart unless I know them well and nobody else is in the conversation. I’m getting a new manager soon and will go with “Hi” or something more formal until we know each other well.

        3. PhyllisB*

          Makes sense. I use hey sometimes in greetings but would never use it in written communication.
          And even in the South teachers would give us the hay is for horses line.
          I think it was because people tend to look down on Southerners because of our accents. (Jeff Foxworthy expressed it well. People heard that accent and automatically deduct 20 IQ points.)

        4. John T*

          Agreed. It can also come off as aggressive, even, if you’re not used to being around a group of people that use it regularly.

    4. TechTrainer*

      Being from the UK,
      “My liege” is always a good one, subtle dig about the feudal lord\serf relationship they apparently still think exists.

    5. TechTrainer*

      Ooh just remembered, does it still count as Hey if you do it like Fonzie did, complete with double thumbs up? Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy

      1. Michigander*

        I always thought he was saying “Ayyyyyy”, which is of course a completely acceptable greeting.

    6. Seashell*

      I don’t think the attention-getting one is always rude either. A calm “Hey, Jan, do you know where the stapler is?” is different from a loud “Hey, get over here!”

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Also, sometimes it’s important to get someone’s attention, and that supersedes politeness.

        “Hey! You dropped your wallet.”

        “Hey! HEY! HEY!!! THAT’S A CLIFF!!!”

    7. Beth*

      I wouldn’t expect good results from giving my boss a “polite” lecture on why they’re totally wrong about their wish for me to make a minor change in my business language.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Yeah, this. To be clear, I have no problem with “hey” and think it’s an odd hill for the boss to die on, but it’s an even odder hill for the LW to die on.

      2. Katie*

        While silly to ask people not to address you with ‘hey’, it is way sillier to fight it, ‘politely’.

    8. L*

      Plus, Hey can also be used as an admonishment (“Hey! Stop doing that.”). You’d think it would be pretty clear to the boss that’s not how it was meant, but you never know.

      I’m from Canada, and I personally use Hey as a greeting all the time, but I only use it as an admonishment to my cat.

    9. sb51*

      I ended up with my usual casual greeting being “heya” because I had acquired greeting-hey and then ran into teachers or something that didn’t like it, so I’d course correct mid word, and it stuck. I do think hey and heya are both very casual and may be too casual for some workplaces and power dynamics.

    10. Overthinking It*

      I think the use of “hey” as a greeting actually predates the use of hello that way, which came in with the telephone (“Hello” – or similar -existed, but was shouted from a distance) I’m quite sure “Howdy”is n older greeting than hello. (check out the Robwords or Words Unraveled youtube). So, make you boss crazy by greeting her with “Howdy” instead of “Hey!”

    11. Hroethvitnir*

      That is a good description of where it comes from, IMO, though I don’t really experience “hey” as a regionalism, being from Aotearoa.

      Having made some effort to learn Swedish, and lived there for 6 months, any remnants of seeing “hej” (hi, hello) as anything but a greeting is nuked.

      I remember thinking it was willful misunderstanding by teachers when I was young – it’s 100% tone that tells you when someone is being demanding – but retrospectively it’s probably mostly a hangover from a more hierarchical time where the *familiarity* is what is offensive (circling back to the topic at hand, haha).

  3. Person from the Resume*

    As a military veteran and federal employee, we (my colleagues from both groups) use the term retired to mean you left military/govt service with enough years to earn your retirement pension.

    Those federal employees about to take early retirement with their resignation are retiring too – even if it’s early and only after 20 years of federal service … I think it 20 years and at least 50 years old.

    Military can retire after 20 years (as young as 38 for some) and almost all go onto other jobs, so they’re retired military and are not retired in the sense of not working but retired in the sense of getting retirement pay and served enough time to retire rather than just leave the job.

    After 30 years at one place I see nothing wrong with saying that she’s retiring from that hospital, and she’s has earned a send-off. But maybe that’s not your culture.

    1. Tiger Snake*

      Plus, there are times where someone does retire, and starts getting their pension, and then something happens – a network link opened up some doors or just bad luck – that just means that they couldn’t pass up the opportunity.
      They start working again, the pension pauses, and then they retired again. The first retirement wasn’t deceptive; the situation just changed.

      1. Indolent Libertine*

        There’s nothing deceptive even if the pension doesn’t pause! Many pensions don’t stop if you continue having some type of paid employment. “Retirement” in this context just meant deciding to leave this particular job after 30+ years. There’s no implicit promise to one’s coworkers not to get paid work anywhere else, and I’m mystified why the coworkers feel like the retiree somehow owed them that because they gave her a party.

        1. doreen*

          Yes- my pension would only pause if I started working for an employer that contributes to that same pension system.

        2. Helen*

          In my state, those who retire from state employment can still earn up to $50,000 annually and still collect benefits. So lots of people will retire from, say, a school principal job and take a job as an office administrator or paraprofessional.

        3. Carol the happy elf*

          But she paid for the party herself, because no budget.

          Lighten up on the old girl, because 30 years!

          1. Myrin*

            The boss paid for the party, not the coworker.
            (So if anything, boss would be the only one where I’d have understood if they’d felt “deceived” but even then, well, it’s fine to have a going-away party for such a longstanding employee even if they aren’t retiring.)

      2. Ellie*

        Yes – I’ve seen dozens of people retire where I work, only to end up back working again, sometimes less than a year later. Retirement isn’t always all its cracked up to be.

      3. Trillian*

        The post-Pandemic cost of housing crisis is hitting everyone. Most retirees don’t have millions, and many people won’t see a maximum pension because they haven’t made maximum contributions for all the required years . Older women spent years out of the workforce raising children—because society was set up that way—and/or took the financial hit of divorce. Others worked in underpaid professions like social service or the arts. People are nervous about money.

          1. Helewise*

            Most people beginning their work life now (or in the past 15-20 years) don’t get pensions. It’s not nearly as uncommon among those retiring now.

    3. JMC*

      And maybe not worry so much about “optics” ….that really doesn’t matter especially at ag 65, leave it be.

    4. PhyllisB*

      Yep. My stepfather retired from the Navy and went to work for FAA. My sister-in-law retired from Civil Service and at 72 still works as a contractor sometimes.

      1. PhyllisB*

        I’m wondering if OP is resentful that she went to work for the VA because it’s
        better pay and hard to get on there. If worker retired and went to work for Dillard’s she probably wouldn’t have cared.

        1. Jean (just Jean)*

          Hey! :-)
          Nice to see a reference to Dillard’s (regional department store, for anyone who doesn’t recognize the name). I’m originally from the St. Louis area.

  4. Fitzie's chew toy*

    #1 I think it’s a bit “imperious” to complain about your boss not wanting to be addressed as “hey.” This column is full of examples of people saying “just address people how they want to be addressed.” If she doesn’t like “hey” don’t use “hey.” Same goes for pronouns, nicknames etc. Sounds simple enough to me.

    1. office hobbit*

      But the salutation you use when greeting someone isn’t at all the same as the name and pronouns someone goes by. If I greeted you with “Hey, Fitzie,” you might complain that I was abrupt or informal. If I greeted you with “Good morning, Jimothy,” my salutation is plenty formal but who am I talking to?

      1. cat herder*

        +1 for “office hobbit” and another +1 for Jimothy. Thank you for delightfully silly names

        My two cents on this whole thing is yes, “hey” is less formal than “hello” for an email salutation – I use that for folks I consider work friends only. Depending on the tone, “hey” is arguably also less formal for a verbal greeting, but I’m getting major stuffy vibes from a senior leadership person who would outright TELL people to not address them this way. Assuming people are saying “hey” in a friendly way, not a shout-y/harsh way, please worry about something more important, good grief.

        For context, I’m in the upper Midwest, so I’m just as likely to say “ope, just gonna squeeze right past ya there” as “hey” or “good morning” to literally anyone, no matter the seniority. lol, cultural relevance matters.

    2. Ma pwes*

      Personally, I think “hey” is a bit rude (or at least abrupt) as an e-mail salutation.

      I definitely would not bring it up with someone more senior, however. And I’d probably not even bring up with someone more junior. It’s just overreaching because too many people will disagree.

      1. Lurker*

        I detest “Hey” as an email salutation at work. I think it’s too casual. (“Hi” is fine; or even just my first name.) I don’t mind it in personal correspondence, although I don’t ever use it myself. I’ve had people who report to me use “hey” and I didn’t say anything but every time I saw it, it made me cringe.

        (I guess it’s kind of like how some people feel about “gentle reminders.”)

        1. BethDH*

          This is fascinating because to me hey and hi are roughly equivalent (and both pretty informal). I can’t imagine using either of them in writing except with a name after it, but “hey Lurker” and “hi Lurker” hit the same note to me. I would only use them with people where I have an ongoing relationship.
          I do find hey or hi in writing without anything else abrupt. Students do it all the time when they get anxious about how to address me so I’ve gotten over finding it rude at least.

      2. amoeba*

        Yeah, I don’t mind it if somebody else uses it (although preferably as “Hey amoeba” or “hey all”, just “hey” won’t make me mad but it does feel abrupt!) – but would definitely not use it with people I don’t know/far above me in our org chart. With my boss – probably fine if I know them well and it’s a pretty informal relationship, not so much in a more hierarchical place or just with somebody more on the formal side.
        I stick with “Hi” 90% of the time – if it’s the CEO or something, I’d probably go more formal unless we have a previously established relationship. (Although our CEO is pretty laid back in that regard, so it probably would be fine!)

      3. Bast*

        I’ve worked in offices where this wouldn’t really fly for external communications, but was very much how people spoke to each other internally. “Hey Bast, when you have a moment can you check out the new documents in the Smith file.” “Hey Emily, just to let you know, Mr. Jones called again wanting to know about X.” In that particular office, trying to push back on that would have been seen as odd and whiny about nothing. Granted, that office was almost all under 40, so the “hay is for horses” or “hey is rude” never passed anyone’s lips. In a more formal, stuffy corporate environment I can see someone getting bent out of shape about it, but it’s very much knowing your audience. In a verbal communication, tone also could play into it, as “Hey John, how is that report coming?” is very different than an impatient, “Hey HEY pay attention” type of thing.

        1. Never the Twain*

          That’s quite interesting. In that context (group of people, all of whom have probably said ‘Good morning’ to each other already) ‘Hey [name]’ actually comes across as less abrupt – it gives a brief signal ‘I’m going to address one of you’ before saying who it is. That’s how it feels to me, anyway.

      5. Red Canary*

        Meanwhile, I see it as much friendlier than a lot of other email greetings, and often use it when I’m writing something more casual to coworkers (although I don’t use it for external emails).

        I don’t really think it’s a hill to die on either way, but I think a boss who wants their employees to stop using it should also accept that their employees are probably also going to forget and use it anyway sometimes.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      I don’t think greetings directed at people are exactly the same as terms of address, but yeah we can retain the spirit of respecting people’s preferences nevertheless. I do think if you’re going to object against very common language usage, and you’re a leader, it can help to just contextualise it a bit as to whether it’s generally unprofessional or personal preference. An old former principal asked us all to stop using “guys” because she considered it gendered and female students didn’t like it. In this case the boss might consider it too casual or she might read it more as an exclamation than a greeting. Either way, I think OP should just respect the instruction.

    4. Falling Diphthong*

      Yeah, this is one I can’t see choosing as a hill to die on in either direction.

      If I know Grace hates being greeted with “Hey,” and our relationship is otherwise pleasant to neutral, I try to avoid doing that.

      “Hey” as a greeting has a connotation of pleasant friendliness to me that is really at odds with shrieking “I will greet you with ‘Hey’ if I want to!” Like, once you’re delivering a level glare while furiously intoning “Hey,” you’ve lost the argument about how casual and friendly it is.

    5. hbc*

      Eh, I generally believe in trying to honor requests like this, but a blanket policy to ignore the cultural implications is silly. I would definitely be put out if my boss let everyone above or equal to him call him Jim but insisted that his underlings call him Mr. James.

      And depending on where they are, it’s really weird to declare a standard greeting off-limits. I would try not to say “hey” or “good morning” or hello” or whatever else someone has a hangup about, but I’d be working hard not to roll my eyes every time.

    6. Deja vu*

      I have a coworker who without fail, always greets me with “hey you!” in a cutesy friendly way. The problem is, we don’t have that kind of close relationship and in a work context I find it impolite. My point is, it is probably better to err on the side of caution when addressing others in a work context.

    7. fhqwhgads*

      This scenario is more akin to someone complaining about you saying “hi” instead of “hello” or “hello” instead of “good morning/afternoon/evening” than it is calling James, Jim despite his previously indicating he goes by James.

  5. Pickles*

    I’ve worked places were they through a going away party for me when I was just there for 2 years. 30 years of service is worth a cake and sparkling cider

    1. juliebulie*

      Yes, I wouldn’t begrudge someone a going-away party after 30 years, regardless of what they were doing next (and even if they were going to a new job, with or without my approval!).

  6. MSD*

    The way things are going she may end up having to retire from her new job at the VA sooner rather than later.

  7. nnn*

    This is Monday-morning quarterbacking, but in situations like #3 I find it can be effective to check in on your communications channels while you’re actually talking.

    So at the end of the interview, as you’re wrapping up, I’d say something like “By the way, I tried to leave a voicemail for you about our interview time today, and I’m not sure if you got it or if that was a generic inbox?”

    Or, when she asked you to call her back with the additional information, you could ask something like “If I can’t reach you directly for whatever reason, is the voicemail I used before an effective way to leave you a message? If not, what is the best way?”

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Yes, this. I agree with the LW that it’s pretty frustrating when business VM outgoing messages are totally generic and don’t say the person’s name – leaving a VM there seems like screaming into the void. In that case, I also probably would have asked when I spoke to her if she got my first VM, and I try to ask for a timeline too. Like, ask at the interview how long it’ll take for her to process your claim after you send her the info she needs. This isn’t particularly useful to the LW in this case now that it’s said and done, but going forward, this is good advice.

      So, overall, I totally commiserate with LW on this one, but also think that asking the person to call back to confirm that they got your VM is a little bit too demanding. In this day and age, with all the electronic communications available, it’s much easier and quicker to email or complete the paperwork than to make a phone call, where you might have to have a long conversation with the person that you don’t have time for. Or, in my case, I hate making phone calls for quick requests/confirmations, because all the small talk and ID confirmation stuff takes way more time and effort than I ever feel like doing. If I send an email, they’ve got my name right there and I don’t have to spell it for them or tell them my phone number.

      Anyway, LW, I totally understand how frustrating it is to have to wonder if someone got your VM. Unfortunately, I think that’s just the way life works in a lot of cases.

    2. MigraineMonth*

      This is a great idea. It resolves the main concern (voicemails aren’t getting through) without adding significant amounts of extra work for the other party.

    3. JustaTech*

      This is really smart!

      My company recently did away with phones without paying for people to get outside calls through Teams, so several of our outside vendors who work almost exclusively by phone were leaving dozens of voicemails in a voicemail trash can that no one can access.

      Thankfully one of them finally emailed and we were able to get things figured out, but it was disconcerting to realize that there were all these important voicemails no one knew about.

  8. Withheld*

    #2 I don’t understand why it matters to you. She’d been there 30+ years, the boss paid for the farewell party. Neither you nor the hospital are out of pocket. She doesn’t owe you any explanation about her plans after leaving the hospital. She no longer works there and is free to do absolutely anything else she wishes to.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      Yeah, that is my thought too. If she lied (and I wouldn’t consider just using the wrong word to be LYING, but if she went on about how she is looking forward to be free of work and enjoy her latter years and so on), it’s a bit weird, but I don’t see how the party is relevant.

      From the point of view of the company and staff, it’s really the same thing either way – a long-term colleague leaving and I would expect it to be celebrated in the same way.

      I will add that if she is eligible for a pension, that is generally considered retirement.

    3. Michigander*

      Agreed! I thought there was going to be something like “We all paid for an expensive retirement gift and now we feel cheated”, and even then I would say a gift after 30 years isn’t out of place, but there isn’t even that. Are you mad that she had a party? It would honestly be pretty rude not to have a party after 30 years of service when someone leaves, for whatever reason. Are you just mad that the language used didn’t mean exactly what you thought it meant? That’s nitpicky and not something worth spending another moment’s thought on.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, retiring to work at the VA, retiring to open a Bed and Breakfast, and retiring to devote yourself full time to the golf circuit all seem pretty similar here–someone is leaving a job they held for 30 years, and their boss provided snacks on boss’s dime plus a signed card.

      2. LW#2*

        I’m actually not mad at all! I just knew it was a point of annoyance for some people at that job (I think a combo of the fact that most people don’t get parties and that it was a highly sought after position that she was going to? Not sure.) and wondered Alison’s take.

        1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

          I think your last point may be the pertinent one. They’re jealous a “retiree” got a job they wanted. That’s on them, not your retired colleague who is doing well for herself. She did nothing wrong.

        2. doreen*

          When you say “most people don’t get parties” do you mean most people who leave don’t get parties or most people who leave after 30 or so years don’t get parties? There’s a difference – I don’t know anywhere where people who leave after a couple of years have something anyone would call a party.

        3. Cordelia*

          Then maybe she didn’t tell people because she knew they would be jealous and meanspirited about her “highly sought after position”. Which they apparently were.
          And a party for someone who has been there 30 years is not a reasonable thing for people to feel resentful about, even if “most people don’t get parties”.

    4. bamcheeks*

      I am also confused by that! Even if someone is going to another job, they’re clearly not going to make the same kind of relationships and history that they’d have after thirty years. Why would you begrudge that celebration?

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah, a party for someone that worked at the company for 30 years seems really reasonable.

        It’s weird to be quibbling over the retirement semantics, unless there is something else going on that LW didn’t mention at all. Was this person generally disliked? Did they have a habit of lying or withholding information? Did someone else recently leave to go to another job after 30 years and not have a party?

    5. Despachito*

      This was exactly my question.

      There is absolutely no skin off OP’s nose. Why are they bothered so much?

    6. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      If someone has been there 30 years they deserve a party even if they’re leaving to open a weed shop in Oahu.

    7. Kat*

      I think the coworker going to a new employer where the LW and a lot of her remaining coworkers want to work might be the real key part of this letter.

      1. Observer*

        Yeah. And it’s not a pleasant thought.

        Also, this kind of attitude might explain why the former colleague did not tell anyone of her plans. Who needs it?

    8. HannahS*

      This year, a beloved administrative employee of 35 years retired from my hospital department, funny enough. He had a longer tenure than anyone in the department, save for one or two of the older physicians. He got a HECK of a farewell party. His job was mainly managing the impenetrable bureaucracy surrounding having medical/nursing students and residents rotating through that department, so most of us got to know him pretty well.

      My understanding is that he retired-retired (and that’s what he told me, complete with a story about how his husband was so excited to start their shared retirement that they were moving cross-country on the Monday after his last day of work.) If I’d later heard that a man in his 60s who wanted to retire and had worked for a hospital for 35 years had taken a higher-paying job elsewhere, my first reaction would be to feel sad for him, not betrayed. People deserve to retire, and it’s sad when they can’t. If they want to work, then it’s also not a betrayal. It’s fine to celebrate someone’s long tenure at a job, too!

    9. LW#2*

      I’m actually not mad at all! I just knew it was a point of annoyance for some at that job and wondered what Alison thought.

      1. Withheld*

        Thanks for popping in to the comments! I think many of us are bewildered as to why anyone would be annoyed by the scenario you outlined. It’s a very ordinary and reasonable series of events.

  9. AgreeableDragon*

    Good grief LW2, she worked there for THIRTY YEARS, and is over 65!
    She earnt that party. I’m feeling sad for her that she has to keep working at that age.

    2. Just say oui*

      Hey (my nod to LW1), I’m over 65 and I love working! My parents worked until well into their 80s and I plan to work until I can’t anymore. I think the difference for us is that we have rewarding creative work, which unfortunately isn’t the case for everyone over 65 who is working.

      1. Michigander*

        My grandma is 92, almost blind, and is a therapist who I think still sees a couple of long-time patients. She could have comfortably retired at least 20 years ago, but she likes what she does and likes having things to fill her days. Some people like working!

        Now me personally, I would retire at 38 if I could, but I’m pretty lazy.

        1. The OG Sleepless*

          I would love to hear what a 92 year old therapist has to say! The things she must have heard. The changes in what problems people want to talk about over her 70ish year career. She must have so much wisdom!

    3. Tea Monk*

      Eh? Most people now will never be able to retire. Also for all we know, the coworker might have loved the job and working. There’s people like that

      1. Hroethvitnir*

        Yeah, the first line is why it’s sad?

        There’s a difference between wanting to keep working (probably less than full-time) and not being able to afford to stop working until your body collapses.

        We don’t know about the person in the letter! But No Choice is indeed getting more common, and does suck.

    4. Insert Clever Name Here*

      Meh. My dad is retirement age but LOVES his job — he could retire but happily continues working because that’s what he wants to do. If OP’s former coworker wants to stay home and do woodwork but financially needs to continue working then that is sad, but we don’t have the information (and I doubt OP has it either) to know if that’s the case.

    5. Eukomos*

      Depends on the work. My parents both work part time in their 60s and 70s because it keeps them sharp and active, and helps maintain their sense of self-worth and value to their community. A lot of work can suck, but a little bit of well-chosen work can be beneficial.

    6. Arts Akimbo*

      Agreed. My mom recently retired at age 83, and she wasn’t working because she liked working, she was working to make ends meet. The only reason she was able to retire at all was because of a legal settlement from something unrelated.

  10. VeryAnon*

    I’m not recommending this. When I had a PIN code door I couldn’t get changed after months of requests, I googled/YT’d how to change it. Brought in tiny tools. Disassembled the lock and changed the pin. No one has noticed in 3 years.

    1. Sue*

      I was thinking of chair under the door knob orextra furniture pushed up or even a bolt self-installed. But all of that is a little wacky when stern words should work.

      1. allathian*

        Indeed. The LW’s boss should care that a former employee who now works for another company in the same building has access to her office and keeps barging in even though she’s told him not to.

          1. Marion Ravenwood*

            Yeah. This is why I’d be telling facilities or whoever deals with office security. Even if LW4 can’t change the PIN, surely there must be someone on site who can!

          2. Someone Else's Boss*

            This was my first thought. Years ago, a coworker figured out where my boss left his master key. He broke into my office and stole $$$ from petty cash. My boss tried to get me to replace the money so his screw up wouldn’t get noticed. Does LW keep their wallet in that office? I would not even be okay with the PIN being given out for decorating purposes, much less an ex employee still having access to my office.

            Also, this guy sounds rude AF.

          3. Mockingjay*

            I’d frame it as a personal safety issue. Or corporate security – protection of information. Or both – whatever provides the most leverage.

            In the interim, recommend a rubber door stop. Cheap and unobtrusive, excellent for keeping the door closed, and easily scooted out of the way with a toe.

            1. Massive Dynamic*

              Was coming here to say Rubber Door Stop too – old pumping room trick in case you’re somewhere where other people have a key to the room. Cut off the tip of it so it doesn’t stick out on the other side of the door.

        2. Myrin*

          Not the point of the letter at all but I don’t get why OP calls this guy a “coworker” when he works for a different company. You say he’s a former employee but that’s not actually in the letter (unless I missed something; if so, please let me know!) – as it stands, this is just some random dude interrupting OP multiple times a day! Is his company located in the same building as OP’s or what is he even doing there at all?

          1. KateM*

            Maybe they are getting their salary from the same company but work on different projects for different client companies?

          2. Emmy Noether*

            I interpreted it as a guy who works for a different company in the same building, or possibly some kind of consultant or generally person sent there to do/implement something for them longterm, but employed at a different company. Neither of which technically fit the term “coworker”, but there really is no good word for person-who-works-in-the-same-space-as-I-but-not-for-the-same-employer.

          3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

            I thought it was like a coworking space with more than one company. But still, the fact they don’t work for the same company gives OP even more standing to tell this person to leave her alone.

            She says he carries it on for days if she does push back. But if he works for another company, you have even more standing to say, I am not going to listen to you whine and moan about how I won’t let you barge in, leave or I call security. Also boss needs to do more than be sympathetic to the situation. Boss should also be telling the guy, you don’t work for this company, leave my employee alone.

          4. doreen*

            There are lots of possibilities – it could be anything from the “coworker” works for the building (like a receptionist or security or a janitor) to someone who works for another entity in the same space ( like an daycare center physically located in a school or hospital) or it could be two companies that share office space but have separate employees. They aren’t really co-workers but they also aren’t outsiders who have randomly entered the building or customers/clients.

          1. Falling Diphthong*

            While I agree that OP should spell this out, unlocking someone’s door because you want to engage them in pleasant chitchat and they keep hiding from you is pretty far over into deliberately ignoring all cues. So I’m doubtful that step is actually going to slow him down at all.

            “Neither snow, nor sleet, nor dead of night, nor closing the door and putting up a do not disturb sign, nor locking that door, nor climbing out a window, nor escaping through the air vents…”

            1. ferrina*

              It’s possible for there to be positive intent here*. I could see them thinking “LW just puts that up for other people; it doesn’t apply to close friends like me.” It’s very common for people who either grew up in a home with very different cultural norms and for people who are neurodivergent. I’ve got both of those, and I am always so relieved when someone casually tells me directly what they need.
              *Of course, it’s also possible this coworker is just a boor.

              Say it directly. “Hey, when that sign is up, I need to be focused on my work and can’t be interrupted.”

              1. ubotie*

                It’s very common for people who either grew up in a home with very different cultural norms and for people who are neurodivergent.

                Nope. Not doing this. It happens every damn time there’s a letter about someone acting like a creepy weirdo. Do not lay this at the feet of ND people or people from [unspecified] culture. Even if it were true, it doesn’t ‘change the fact that it’s super disruptive and frankly, weird. And that it needs to stop. So there’s no point in even bringing it up.

                It’s a shame the moderation filter can’t be changed to flag words and phrases like “maybe they’re neurodivergent” or “maybe they’re from another culture” as excuses for inappropriate behavior whenever letters about inappropriate behavior are posted.

              2. MigraineMonth*

                In my experience, people who are neurodivergent in a way that causes them to miss subtle social signals (and aren’t a-holes) *love* things like signs that clearly state “DO NOT DISTURB”. There’s no ambiguity or hints there to trip them up.

                It’s a-holes who look at that sign and say, “But I *want* to disturb LW, and that’s more important than what LW has OBVIOUSLY indicated with her giant unambiguous sign and locked door.”

                1. ferrina*

                  Yes, it should help with most well-intentioned folks out there. But unfortunately, I’ve been in work environments where I was expected to know “oh, that sign wasn’t for you.” If the rest of the world were more consistent in actually saying what they mean, things would be much easier for us ND folks! But instead we’re expected to know what people haven’t said and magically ascertain when something they’re saying isn’t actually for us.

                  So that’s why I think LW needs to do a blunt conversation. But after that- yeah, the guy has officially run out of excuses.

              3. Lenora Rose*

                IME a neurodivergent person is much more likely to fret that an instruction like that, or a sign, IS for them even when told it isn’t.

                Either way, it doesn’t matter. This person is literally barging into private space. He needs to be given ONE chance to listen when told not to do so anymore in as many words, then action needs to be taken.

          2. My Useless Two Cents*

            I’m more concerned that she doesn’t feel comfortable bringing it up because of how the guy has reacted to simple requests in the past. That itself is verging onto dangerous territory when talking about a reasonable requests (from a female) resulting in unreasonable reactions (from a male).

            I’d recommend a blunt and possibly difficult conversation with boss to discuss the issue and why I expect boss to handle the situation, including spearheading getting that PIN changed.

      3. darsynia*

        Yeah I was thinking of one of the wedges you can use to hold a door open, but angled to keep the door FROM opening. If people aren’t side-eyeing this guy putting in LW4’s PIN in, will they at least look askance and him putting it in and then struggling to get the door open? Heh.

    2. Part time lab tech*

      My suggestion is along Alison’s lines. A polite clear email to him, your boss, his boss (and possibly whichever company handles changing the pin, security and the grandbosses. Situation, problem including frequency and dates, action you wish to have taken. If you can site security or safety concerns as well as lost work time loss for both of you, so much the better.
      Is there anyone who can run interference? You email them and they come in with an urgent task so chatty Chad has to leave. Or email the boss so there’s a record? Maybe bosses doesn’t really realise how often it happens and for how long.

    4. GammaGirl1908*

      I am recommending this.

      Ugh, people who think it’s just hilarious to keep interrupting unwilling others at work SUCK, and anyone who can’t graciously accept a polite but clear and firm request to stop a thing they are doing SUCK EVEN MORE.

      In LW’s shoes, I agree that she probably can change the code with a bit of research, and I’d get on that. A door stopper or chair also could help, although he will think bursting through a chair or a door stopper is just hilarious and part of the game.

      But I also think LW needs to try a little harder to use her words, even if, as she noted, it doesn’t produce easy and immediate results. At the best, kindest, nicest possible interpretation of his behavior, he thinks you don’t mind his visits that much, and everyone is just having a bit of harmless fun, because you haven’t really done anything to stop him (…he may even think you’re flirting…). Fiddle with the door, for sure, but we also need an unmistakable order (not request) to stop opening the locked door, and a lack of positive response if he enters as the first step (because the response is his goal. He’s still getting what he wants).

      When he starts being a jerk about it, escalating to her boss is next. When he’s STILL a jerk about it, having her boss escalate to HIS boss is next.

      No, it won’t feel good, and it is hard, and he will act like you are overreacting, but some jerks need you to go to an 8 out of 10 before they know you mean business. You will have to ask yourself whether you want this to feel good or whether you want him to stop interrupting you. In order to get the latter, the former might have to bend. And after all, it doesn’t feel good now. If you put work into this, you might at least get him to stop interrupting you.

      Sigh. Jerks suck.

      1. KateM*

        He will probably also find hilarious to drum on or kick locked door. So it seems like words should be used, possibly towards his boss.

        1. Emmy Noether*

          I was also picturing him punching in the old code half a dozen times, and then knocking loudly forever because “the lock is broken”. You can try sitting that out, but it will also be distracting.

          1. Michigander*

            Good point! There’s really not much headway to be made without talking to him, even if you do manage to get the PIN changed.

          2. Bilateralrope*

            It will be distracting for everyone nearby. Not just the letter writer.

            The bigger a problem he is, the more likely it is that someone will do something about him.

            1. Observer*

              Exactly.

              But also, if the LW uses her words and he’s a jerk and then he starts pounding on her door where everyone can see and hear he loses every shred of plausible deniability. And so, by the way, does her boss, who should have stepped in already.

        2. darsynia*

          I’m hoping that the physical act of struggling with the door will cause other coworkers to see his behavior in a new light. Since, you know, being asked to stop isn’t enough (and LW4 does need to step up the severity of getting this to stop), is forcing this interloper to look like an intruder and thus disrupt the peace of the office the only way to get him to stop?

          1. linger*

            If this is someone who has no legitimate business being in OP’s space, he IS an intruder. Even if there are other reasons for him being in the building (which is what I get from him being a “coworker who works for another company”? Not saying this is the specific case here, but it sounds something like an arrangement where a product vendor rep has a stall area within a store, so can legitimately be in the store space interacting with the customers, but not normally in “staff only” areas such as the store’s warehouse or back office space).
            I am curious how Manager giving the PIN to one group of contractors resulted in it being apparently openly known to everybody. Did Manager leave it written in bold sharpie next to the keypad? Because that alone should force a change of PIN.

            1. Observer*

              If this is someone who has no legitimate business being in OP’s space, he IS an intruder.

              Yes, he’s an intruder. But at this point, at least the LW’s boss does not see it that way. By forcing the issue via him physically struggling with her door, or banging on and on, her boss will hopefully be forced to acknowledge that.

              Did Manager leave it written in bold sharpie next to the keypad? Because that alone should force a change of PIN.

              Yeah. It’s pretty obivious that Manager’s sense of security is *severely* lacking.

              1. darsynia*

                Yep, shift the friction to visible and physical! The manager might hear about it and be forced to accept that this is intrusion, in a way that they aren’t recognizing yet.

        3. Colette*

          He might, and then the OP tells him to stop and engages management as necessary. It’s usually a bad idea to avoid setting a boundary because someone might be a jerk.

        4. Samwise*

          Call security when that happens. Every time. When they get there, tell them you were frightened because the door was locked but somehow this person who doesn’t even work there keeps getting thru the security code and now they’re kicking/pounding the door.

        5. Overthinking It*

          If he does this – drums or kicks on locked door- AFTER you have told him to go away, call or IM your boss/his boss/security from inside the room, while he is still doing it! Refuse to open the door til they arrive.

      2. Delta Delta*

        If the door opens inward, a rubber stopper at the bottom of the door can work some magic.

        I mean, in addition to telling him directly not to come in.

      3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        yeah, OP isn’t using her words because the short term consequences are annoying. So she is dealing with the long term consequences of him interrupting anyway.

        OP which is worse – telling him flat out to stop it and then dealing with this whining for a few day or continuing to have him interrupt you ad infinitum? he won’t go away easily no matter what you do, so you have to take the step at some time in the hopes of getting to rid of him sooner rather than waiting until you have a complete meltdown from dealing with him.

      4. Anne Shirley Blythe*

        I was going to mention a door stopper too until the PIN issue gets resolved/HR and *his* management get involved.

        This guy is a boundary violator, period. It’s time to set aside politeness and social contract. Until you get a door stopper, put a chair or some other obstruction in front of the door. It won’t stop him but it will cause an obstacle. Be willing to raise your voice so others might hear: “Do not come into my office.”

        I’m sorry you are dealing with this. This is scary. PLEASE update us.

        1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

          I also just thought of this. Get this in writing. Email the managers and HR to “summarize the situation” or whatever. Forward the email and all related emails to your personal account.

          And I recently read this regarding bad online dating behavior. Unfortunately it is the same energy. Can you get the guy’s business email? Consider emailing him and cc’ing related parties and use the wording “I am now putting in writing that I want you, an employee of an unrelated company, to stop coming into my office.” The idea of witnesses–especially males–in the law enforcement or legal field often gets the behavior to stop.

      5. My Useless Two Cents*

        I know people should be professional to co-workers but I’m not loving the “girls must be nice to the annoying men in their lives or they are just making the situation worse” comments I’m seeing here. OP has done plenty to ensure a reasonable person would change their behavior and has explained an outsized reaction to reasonable requests in the past. It is time for OP’s boss, or boss’s boss, or someone with plenty of authority to step in and take over and make sure this guy knows *their* behavior is the problem and they need to leave OP alone.

        1. GammaGirl1908*

          I think it’s less that people are telling LW to be nice and more that a polite but firm and clear request — which LW said she *has not yet done** — is the first step, AND THEN you quickly involve higher-ups. The higher-ups likely will first ask LW whether she has used a polite but firm and clear request, and she should be able to say yes.

          The idea isn’t to just be nice forever; that idea is to go to your higher-ups with proof that you’ve been reasonable and firm, and now Dudeface is STILL being a jerk, and that is why you’re escalating and calling in reinforcements.

          In fact, I think most of us are saying that LW should have been polite but firm a long time ago, and this should long since have been escalated way up to authorities, not that she should just be smiling meekly and being sweet. Polite but firm is step 2. Authorities are step 3. LW is still on step 1 (1.5, if you count writing to AAM).

    7. Typity*

      This man knows his company is unwanted and persists over LW’s protests, and has already intimidated her into not telling him off directly. The issue is not that he is disruptive, it’s that he may be dangerous.

      This is a guy who has — more than once — whined in LW’s office for *days* when she has told him he’s making her uncomfortable. That doesn’t sound like someone who will give up and go away when he finds the PIN has been changed.

      Hanging around outside (“Why did you change the PIN? Am I making you UNCOMFORTABLE?”) sounds more like this man’s style. Or knocking/pounding on the door, or otherwise escalating his behavior. Time for LW to take this over her boss’s head and/or to the creep’s company and his boss.

      Along with the very valid concern about how disruptive he is, the words “stalking,” “aggressive,” and “frightening” might be useful.

      1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

        YES, especially that last paragraph.

        I am so aggravated on the LW’s behalf that I am using my reptile brain. I wish the door could be rigged somehow. I want something dumped on the guy’s head.

  11. Artemesia*

    There is ‘hey’ to get someone’s attention which is rude and ‘hey’ as a variation on ‘hi’ which is a common current greeting and not rude. If the boss doesn’t like it, you don’t do it — but you aren’t rude to have done so.

    1. allathian*

      It depends a lot on the tone of voice! It’s certainly rude if it sounds like a “hey you!” with the “you” omitted. Granted, I don’t normally greet people at work in English, but the greeting “hey” sounds very different and to me reads the same as a “hi” or “hello” on the formality scale. My perception’s probably colored by the standard informal greetings in Finnish, “hei” (pronounced like hey) and “moi” (rhymes with goy), as well as the Swedish “hej” (also pronounced like hey).

      I think that managers who insist on formal address (Good morning, X!) are a bit precious, though. If I had a boss like that, I’d certainly greet them as they wish to be greeted, but I’d also be judging them *hard* in my head and I’d be on the lookout for other signs of a boss who’s difficult to work with. It’s possible this is just a personal quirk, and if so, NBD, but it could also be a sign of a power-mad boss who loves lording (regardless of gender) it over their reports.

      1. amoeba*

        Yes to your last paragraph – but if they just don’t like the “Hey” specifically but are fine with “Hi”, “Hello”, etc., I’d be way less annoyed and just take it as a quirk.

      2. Mizzle*

        I greet people at work with ‘hey’ specifically because it works for both the local language and English! (Many of my colleagues are expats and this way I don’t need to assume which language they’d prefer.)

        1. amoeba*

          I just realised that “Hey” appears to be super popular with our French colleagues – including my boss, who actually (in talking) always uses it, haha. Oh well, I guess in that case it’s safe to use!

          (It’s the same in German, but “Hi” works the same or fits even better, so I prefer that one. In Sweden it would be hey/hej – or hejhej, haha – for sure though!)

    2. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

      There’s also “Heyyyyyyyy…” from/to a participant in inappropriate flirting. Can’t link, but search for “My wife says my relationship with a coworker is inappropriate”. Yes, according to Alison and the commentariat, it was *way* inappropriate.

  12. KB*

    OP #4 You say you can’t talk to him about it because it will drag on for days, but it’s already dragging on for days, at least for you. It’s causing you massive amounts of disruption and stress, so you might as well do something about it as not. I would personally be inclined to ignore him completely and grey rock him. If necessary, send a message saying you will only communicate with him in writing, and then do not acknowledge him when he walks into the office. I’m sure you think that it will be incredibly stressful for you, but it’s already stressing you out that he might turn up any moment. As Alison has said before, it will feel very rude, but he is being super rude right now and it’s all about putting boundaries in place. You might want to talk to your boss about it first, and give him a head’s up, but I would look into the grey rock method if you haven’t heard about it before and put it into practice.

    1. Southern Violet*

      Also it can only drag on for days if OP lets it. If this guy bothers her or makes it hard to do her job, she needs to escalate with her boss and this guy’s boss up to and including getting the guy fired. It sucks she has to deal with that but that’s life.

    2. Always Tired*

      This exactly OP. This is one of those times when I tell people to be the B* you wanna see in the world. Be so direct it feels rude, shut him down, and keep shutting him down. He drags it out whingeing about you setting a boundary, you just say “sorry your feelings got hurt, but I have work to do.” and stop paying attention to him. Bully your boss into getting that door code changed. He probably doesn’t want to put in the request because then he’ll have to admit he gave out your door code. So escalate. Ask facilities, ask the office manager, ask HR. But get it changed. Why have a locked office if everyone and their dog has the key?

      Don’t let these men push you around. I don’t care if you feel like you are being mean or rude, you need to stand up for yourself for your own safety and success.

  13. Bilateralrope*

    #4, I notice that you say that this coworker knows your PIN because your boss gave it to someone other than the coworker in question.

    The decorator shared it with one person who wasn’t authorized to know. You can’t know if the decorator shared it with anyone else unless they use it. Your PIN is compromised and needs to be changed.

    So you need to find out why your boss says that it can’t be changed, unless you already know. Maybe it’s just that nobody knows how, which means you might be able to research it. Maybe it’s a company policy that you can see another solution to.

    Oh and tell the coworker to go away every time he uses the PIN to enter your office.

    1. Bob*

      Word.

      Its bonkers to me that some random dude from another company has the code to your locked door, just comes in and annoys you, and throws a wobbly if anyone days anything to him.. and the boss doesn’t seem to give a crap.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        I feel like I need so much more context, and then when I do I will probably conclude that this is the tip of the iceberg.

        1. Kat*

          I was thinking that there had to be something else going on here, and I wonder if this involves one or more family businesses, and all of the parties in this letter are related. That doesn’t excuse any of it, of course, but it makes the whole weird situation much less surprising.

    2. Varthema*

      That’s assuming the locks are a feature desired by the company for security, not a bug from having inherited a building that happened to have PIN locks on the doors that they don’t care about. Kind of like the unwanted burglar alarm on our house.

    3. Aww, coffee, no*

      I was thinking it might be worth saying something like “The door was locked because I’m busy, please don’t interrupt” although I guess maybe OP4 is concerned that this is the sort of thing that will make annoying not-quite-coworker throw a tantrum.

      1. Workerbee*

        Film it if he does is my advice (all due consideration to state laws…). Dude has gotten used to getting his way if he acts like an ass. Return ass to sender, OP has no room for it in her office.

        1. darsynia*

          I’m a big fan of return to sender! Especially if there’s a possibility, as others have alluded to, that ‘breaking in/interrupting’ is a Thing to this guy. Filming it and positioning yourself as the victim (instead of his ‘I was asked to stop, wahhhhh’ victim complex) could be useful!

      2. shrinking violet*

        Let him throw a tantrum! Let everyone else have to put up with him, too! OP is being way too nice to this person. And I understand that, I’m working on my own conflict-avoidance. But there’s a darn limit, and this guy is way past it.

        1. Insert Clever Name Here*

          Yes! Let him throw a tantrum! Call your boss during the tantrum, heck call his boss during the tantrum so they get to experience it — “Steve is throwing a tantrum because I told him to leave my office, please come remove him.”

        2. Insert Clever Name Here*

          Yes! Let him throw a tantrum! Call your boss during the tantrum, heck call his boss during the tantrum so they get to experience it — “Steve is throwing a tantrum because I told him to leave my office, please come remove him.”

          Also, what the heck is up with your manager? Does she know that all these unwanted visits are impacting your productivity?

    4. Antilles*

      So you need to find out why your boss says that it can’t be changed, unless you already know.
      Is this even the case? To me, it reads more that (1) OP can’t change the PIN herself and (2) the Boss simply doesn’t care.
      That doesn’t mean the PIN can’t be changed, it just means that OP needs to step up and address the situation directly. Reach out to Building Maintenance / Security / IT, explain that a decorator shared the PIN without your knowledge, and tell them that you need a new PIN “for security reasons”.
      Then don’t share it with anybody.

    6. Mid-West Nice*

      Could you see about getting a simple lock installed on the inside of the door? Just a simple bar lock would be easy to install.
      Another option would be to investigate some sort of wedge to put under the door to block it from opening. This would require some thought before working but it is something that can keep this jerk from barging into your office while you are working.

  14. Everdene*

    Today I’ve learnt that I would not get on well in LW1s office. I tend to greet my boss with any of this selection; good morning, hello, happy [wednesday], hi, hey, yo yo yo, ‘sup, what’s occurin’ or a friendly gif.

    1. Boba Feta*

      Now I’m trying to imagine how to greet someone in person using a friendly gif. Printed slip of paper that I shake ever-so-slightly to imitate movement? Hold up my phone screen above my face as I saunter by? Thanks for the chuckle this morning!

      1. Mockingjay*

        I’m guessing this wasn’t the only issue there, since you’ve moved on.

        I do like your question. I think it’s apt as offices are mandating teleworkers return to work. I can see potential for irritation as people congregate in close quarters again, after being able to express themselves casually in team chat channels, wear comfy clothes, and not worry about reheating fish in the microwave. We have to find that middle ground again between corporate formality and relaxed team relationships.

  15. Matt*

    #3: for me as a dedicated “not a phone person” this is one of the cases that leave me wondering why, in the name of whoever, why, do businesses insist on using the phone for things like that. That would have been so much easier by email. I get the argument that you have to talk in person as soon as the topic reaches a certain level of complexity, but I still think the optimal way to handle issues like that would be to do the basic getting-in-touch by email and then schedule a personal appointment (or a phone call, but at a fixed time, not a multiple hour window). Yet insurance companies, banks, etc. are notorious for insisting on the phone (even if they offer an online contact form, they’ll usually demand a mandatory phone number and respond only by calling you back).

    1. Care Bear*

      At least in this case, it is likely because the info discussed included PHI. Your insurance company does have to follow HIPAA, and general email is not HIPAA compliant. That is why a lot of that stuff is phone only or in an online portal that you have to log into.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I deal with a wide range of clients and have to figure out how to get in touch with them. Telephone really is the most reliable. Even the Youngs who dont answer their phones will likely call back. Email is best for my generation, but can be a black hole for both the Olds, and for the Youngs who regard email as only slightly more current than telegrams.

        As for the generic outgoing voicemail message, I get the concern about its being too generic. The other extreme is at least as bad. I also call a lot of insurance adjusters. Some of the messages are interminable, covering a vast range of possibilities, before eventually letting you leave your message. I assume these are mandated from above by people who never have to sit through them. There is a happy medium, briefly identifying the individual or team and encouraging you to leave not only your name, but also your claim number.

      2. Magpie*

        In this case, it sounded more like a homeowners or car insurance claim since the LW mentioned filing the claim themselves. If that’s the case, HIPAA wouldn’t apply.

        1. Privacy*

          There are still privacy and security issues – many places might be willing to email you a “please call me” but not provide details via either email or vm, certainly not without explicit permission (and often not at all).

        2. Observer*

          it sounded more like a homeowners or car insurance claim since the LW mentioned filing the claim themselves. If that’s the case, HIPAA wouldn’t apply.

          So? That’s not the only set of regulations that relate to the security and privacy of data.

          1. Dancing Otter*

            Yeah, I dropped my former insurance agency because they “just happened” to tell my ex-husband about my car accident. In retrospect, I should have complained to corporate.

        3. Paint N Drip*

          I work in the world of numbers and money, HIPAA does not apply – we still have stringent rules around PII to remain compliant

    2. Kay*

      Made all the more complicated when your iphone sends them to voicemail! And yes, solidly agree on the few hour window nonsense.

  16. Kiitemso*

    #4 If this person works for a different company, isn’t this a huge data security issue? My work made everyone do an online module about locking their screens when stepping away from their desk, and locking their office door when they leave for lunch. If it’s a different branch of the same conglomerate, that’s still weird how the code is handed out like candy.

  17. ChurchOfDietCoke*

    Brit here. I LOATHE ‘Hey’ as a greeting. ‘Hi’ is fine, but ‘Hey’ seems rude and abrupt.

    1. Michigander*

      It really all depends on how you say it, just like any other greeting. If you’re barking out a word then it’s going to sound rude no matter how you say it. There are plenty of polite and friendly ways to say “hey”.

    2. londonedit*

      Also British and yes if someone barks ‘Hey!’ then it sounds rude, just as many other things would. But if it’s a friendly ‘Hey…’ then I don’t have a problem with that, it’s no different from saying ‘Hi’ really.

      1. Chas*

        Yes, I’m also a Brit and my boss will often start an in-person question with a friendly “Hey, Chas…” and it never feels rude because his tone is usually polite and a little apologetic. It’s just like saying “Hi” but he usually does it later in the day when he’s already said Hi to me.

        On the other hand, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use “Hey” to start an email. We always use “Dear” or “Hi”.

    3. bamcheeks*

      I definitely wouldn’t object to someone else saying hi or hey, but there is NO WAY I can stop after one syllable and not make it heya, hiya, or (h)ey up. I keep trying it in my head and it’s just not happening.

    4. Garbanzo*

      Hi reads as much more abrupt to me than hey (American). I don’t know why, but to me hey has an implied good to see you, how are you doing whereas hi is I am here and acknowledging your presence, but that’s all.

    5. Catherine UK*

      Yep, I think of it as a mildly rude attention-getter or something you might exclaim to a child when they’re misbehaving.

    1. Smurfette*

      In a Commonwealth country and “hey” is just fine here, assuming the tone is friendly – as in “Hey Jill, how was your weekend?” and not “HEY! GET OFF MY LAWN!”

  19. Michigander*

    It feels like once a week there is a question that essentially amounts to “How can I solve a problem/get this person to change their behaviour without talking to them about it?” and the answer is always “You can’t”.

    The signs would probably work on someone with the social awareness to not come barging into your office multiple times a day. This guy almost certainly didn’t notice the signs or assumed they were meant for other people, because obviously that kind of thing wouldn’t apply to him, a man so close to you that he stops by multiple times a day and knows your PIN.

    1. GammaGirl1908*

      Amen. LW needs to at least have STARTED with something like, “I haven’t said anything until now, but my work has ramped way up lately and I really need to focus. Can I ask you to please stop visiting me during the day to help me out? I now can’t have multiple interruptions like this.”

      This is softer than it needs to be and involves a petite cream-colored fib, but a lot of times that’s the best social lubricant. (If she doesn’t mind the fib, she can even add on that her boss is noticing how much time she is spending not working, or that she’s not able to get her work done and it’s getting her in trouble, or similar.)

      Then, if he doesn’t quit it, she needs to very quickly step it up to something much firmer that is not a request, and then quickly escalate it to the supervisors involved. Like, these four steps should take less than a week. And as I noted upstream, no, it might not be painless, but the situation is currently painful, so at least it will end the current pain.

      1. OhGee*

        honestly, at this point, I’d be shouting “get out” when he walks in. this man is a creep and he’s being a creep on purpose. if he makes a big deal out of it for days, every time she addresses something he does that she doesn’t like, it’s time to get aggressive.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Yeah I don’t like the fact that OP has been trained to not object to anything he does without expecting “days” of punishment. That does sound creepy to me. Still, what’s he going to do that’s worse than tapping a pin in just to give impromptu performances of why he is so tedious? Give her the silent treatment? As long as he does whatever he is going to do on the other side of the door?

          1. duinath*

            Yeah, this sounds less “socially oblivious” more “intentionally crossing boundaries” to me.

            While telling him directly to stop coming in uninvited is unavoidable if you want to deal with this, imo, I’m not convinced it would actually do anything.

            The idea would be that you will be able to tell your boss, or his boss, even, that you told him directly to stop and he did not.

            At that point you might even be able to bring up all the other crap he’s done.

            And insist on having the pin changed …or having him thrown out for extreme creepiness idk.

            However I can actually think of some things he could do if LW got aggressive, and I think we need to trust LW’s threat evaluation on this one, being as we are not there and LW is.

            So LW, if you’re going along because he would act annoying if you don’t, I would encourage you to expect him to act professional and kick him out or go over his head when he is not. If you’re going along because you are, on some level, afraid, I would encourage you to push your boss to act, and keep as much of a paper trail as you can.

            1. Observer*

              <i.Yeah, this sounds less “socially oblivious” more “intentionally crossing boundaries” to me.

              Absolutely.

              The idea would be that you will be able to tell your boss, or his boss, even, that you told him directly to stop and he did not.

              Exactly. LW’s being deliberately obtuse here. But it’s harder to pretend that you “didn’t realize” that there is a problem when someone says “This behavior is keeping my from my work, I told Dumbo to stop on ~~Date~~, and he’s still keeping me from getting work done.”

              I would encourage you to expect him to act professional

              I’m pretty sure that he won’t act professional. But the LW should *pretend* to expect him to act like an adult. Because in the long term that’s more likely to get her what she needs.

        2. Ms. Eleanous*

          #4 – my friends with little kids say that their littles can be off playing somewhere, completely fine..
          Until..
          She picks up the phone to call someone, or goes to the bathroom.
          Apparently, toddlers think nothing of walking in on someone.

          This guy is being a toddler.

          Who the hell does he think he is?

        3. Eukomos*

          Obviously he won’t knock it off when asked politely, but when OP starts escalating to their bosses the first thing they’ll ask is “have you asked him to stop”, so she needs to be able to say “yes I did and not only has he kept it up, he’s now been in a snit for days because of it.”

          Same way tech support always asks if you’ve turned it off and on again and won’t move to the next step until you’ve done it; when you ask for help, you need to demonstrate that you’ve taken the standard first step to solve things even if you know that won’t work, because otherwise the person who’s trying to help with have to start at the beginning anyway.

        4. Aerin*

          It makes me think of the person who had been assaulted and had coworkers who would not leave her alone about it. She ended up FLIPPING OUT on a guy who brought it up in a particularly terrible way. Might not have felt the most professional, but it ended up being quite effective!

          Mind you, in this LW’s case I think it would be better to go for ice rather than fire and flatly demand that this guy stay out of her office completely. But if she’s worried that she’ll lose her cool and make it a scene… that’s also fine. Sometimes scenes need to be made. I know that if I saw a coworker flipping out on someone to the tune of “My door is LOCKED for a REASON I have put up with this for MONTHS but it’s time to TAKE THE FREAKING HINT” I would instantly be on their side. *Especially* if it was a woman confronting a man.

          I’ve actually dealt with a couple of scenarios where safety was involved and I had to deploy what a friend calls Angry Mommy Voice: not yelling but also not hiding my fury, while firmly and emphatically conveying that the behavior is completely unacceptable and absolutely will stop/change. Even when I haven’t actually had the authority to enforce my will, it got the job done. 10/10 recommend.

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yeah, blaming the boss here would be a great way to go, because then it’s not OP asking him to stop interrupting, it’s “someone with authority” (which, unfortunately, might be the only thing that’ll get him to stop). Maybe clue your boss in first that you’re doing this so if he gets mad at the boss the boss won’t be blindsided by it. But first things first, you gotta use your words. In my youth I was *extremely* conflict-averse and was definitely a “make a sign” kind of person instead of a “use your words” kind of person. AAM and Captain Awkward have taught me that sometimes in order to get what you want, you have to do a little conflict-making even if that’s really difficult in the short term. Good luck, OP!

    2. Michigander*

      Also, as someone else pointed out above, this does not sound like the kind of man who is going to notice that the lock has been changed and then walk away quietly. Even if you manage to change the lock, he’s most likely going to notice that the door is locked and that there’s a Do Not Disturb sign up and think “Ha, I wonder who OP is trying to avoid” and then knock repeatedly while saying, “Hey, OP! OP, the door is locked! OP, it’s me, the door is locked, let me in!” Even if you do get the PIN changed, which I hope you, you’re going to have to talk to him anyway.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        I have some empathy for OP, because someone this determined is probably going to hear any words as essentially meaning “I’m busy, by which I mean it would be acceptable to set up a camera so you can learn the new code so you can pop in whenever you realize you want to see me.”

        1. Michigander*

          I empathise with her because I too would love to be able to solve other people’s bad behaviour without having to talk to them. I just think it’s her only real option here, unfortunately.

      2. Anonymous Cat*

        I once put up a do not disturb sign and people came in to ask why I put up a do not disturb sign. Sigh.

    3. Observer*

      The signs would probably work on someone with the social awareness to not come barging into your office multiple times a day.

      Or the common decency to not ignore what he’s being told.

      It’s just not believable that he did not “notice” the signs. He noticed and *ignored* them. I still agree that the LW needs to speak to hum directly. But let’s be real about *why*. It’s not because he doesn’t realize that there is an issue. It is because he *does* absolutely KNOW that there is a problem but he wants plausible deniability. The LW needs to take that away from him – and her boss, to be honest.

  20. Amy Purralta*

    A know a large number of people who have looked forward to retiring, but then found they were bored.
    It may be useful to know if she had any time off between the roles, or if she started the new role straight away.
    Also I don’t think it is as common now, but some business used to make you retire once you hit a certain age

    1. Richard Hershberger*

      Vast numbers of retirees find themselves bored out of their skulls. Three months seems to be the length of time of the “retirement is awesome!” phase. I suppose it is different if your retirement is “live in a villa in Tuscany and drink wine” as opposed to “maintain a comfortable but modest lifestyle.” My best friend retired and ended up volunteering for the USO, which turns out still to be a thing. She tells me she has never been “Ma’am’ed” so much in her life, before being surrounded by young Marines.

      My ambition is to do a gradual retirement. Lawyers typically do this, ramping their caseload down. If I can provide paralegal support to one or more guys doing this, I can ramp down with them. How to get a gig like this? Connections, of course.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        The three months observation is interesting, as that’s the time where something stops feeling like a temporary thing and starts to just be your life.

    2. Hyaline*

      LW suggests the timing was too compressed for this to be the case, but this is absolutely true for many people! And who knows—she might have intended to retire and this opportunity, which she felt she would enjoy and have as a nice capstone to her career, fell in her lap.

    3. Observer*

      It may be useful to know if she had any time off between the roles, or if she started the new role straight away.

      Why? Seriously, what difference would it make?

      It’s not like the LW described anything *remotely* problematic, even if she went to the VA the next day.

    4. fhqwhgads*

      The letter indicates there was no enough time for this to be the case, though. I don’t think it changes the advice at all, but it’s in there.

  21. RadiationFun*

    L2 is interesting. I work in the NHS in the UK and have seen quite often that someone “retires” has a retirement party and then comes back a few months later to pretty much the same role but maybe part time. It has happened often enough I don’t really think of it as an issue, but my area of work is very short on qualified people so we are very happy to have them back, even if it at another hospital or trust it’s just nice to have the knowledge and expertise around for a bit longer.

    1. bamcheeks*

      There used to be formal rules about not working for 24 hours after you retired in order to access your NHS pension, so you would lose your years-in-service etc. But apparently that changed in 2023 and you can now take partial retirement and start drawing down a portion of your pension without a break in service.

    2. ChurchOfDietCoke*

      My dad ‘retired’ twice from a medical equipment company. He was much, much too bored to stay away the first time, and went back to do another 8 years before he finally got too tired and illness prevented him from carrying on, sadly. They were CHUFFED to have him back die to his skills and experience.

  22. bamcheeks*

    LW3 is a great example of why I think the “AI is coming to take your job” is partly exaggerated, and partly evidence of how much the problem is “capital wants to drive down costs even if it’s not what customers/clients want”. People want to talk to people! We want someone to explain things, confirm they’ve received something and that it’s the right thing, tell us we’ve made the right decision, sympathise with us, be excited for us, reassure us, celebrate with us and so on. I’m in a sector where we’ve spent the last fifteen years trying to get people to look it up on a website, and the overwhelming response is still, “ok, can someone show me where on the website it is?”

    Obviously there is lots of stuff like banking where we’ve been able to switch to doing lots more self-service, but there is still SO MUCH where people want the relationship and recognition and reassurance that only another person can bring, even for relatively low stakes stuff like, “did you get the form and have I filled it in correctly”, and it’s notable how rarely that comes up in lots of the discussion.

    1. Richard Hershberger*

      I have a strict policy of banking with the smallest institutions possible. I have accounts with a regional credit union and with a local bank with nine branches, most of them in my county. Partly this is because the larger the bank, the more likely they are to steal from their customers as a matter of policy (with a thin veneer of deniability between the board of directors and the people doing the actual dirty work). But also because when I walk into my local branch they recognize me and I recognize them, and if I need something out of the ordinary they will make it happen and be cheerful about it. When the institution is small enough, the Powers that Be understand that this is their main marketing advantage. As the institution gets larger the Powers that Be become further and further removed from this and see the world as a spreadsheet with costs to be minimized.

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      Also, faced with an impenetrable bureaucracy we seek one human within it to look at our problem, and say “Well, that’s off–let me figure out what went wrong.” And fix things. If you remove that layer for “The algorithm says you owe us 37 cents, and it’s impenetrable but surely has a good reason” that is not going to strike people as useful.

    3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I’m not sure how you get from “people want to talk to people” with examples that clearly refer to their personal lives (sympathize with, be excited for, celebrate) to “and therefore it is the right choice to require phone calls for all routine interactions like scheduling a dental appointment”. I like talking to my friends! I don’t like spending half an hour on hold to schedule something that could be done with an online portal.

      1. Some Words*

        And sometimes the long waits on hold are a very deliberate attempt by organizations to force people to use an automated system. Likewise, the terrible, distorted hold music.

        1. I Have RBF*

          When I get some awful hold music interrupted frequently by exhortations to “use the web portal blah blah” I end up cursing at the the phone recording “You stupid piece of shit, I tried your damned web site and couldn’t solve my problem, so it told me to call.” The phone is never my first choice, and I hate being nagged to use a useless website that can’t fix my problem, while on hold for a half an hour. If I could use the web site to do it, I’d be done already.

          I also hate more than about four layers in a phone tree, and end up smashing that “0” button when it hits six or more. What’s really annoying is when they want me to enter a 16 digit code for my account, I do so, and then the CSR also asks me for the same damned number. Why did I type it into the phone, then? Don’t your systems keep track of things? Ugh.

          1. Banana Pyjamas*

            I just had that experience with GEICO. The app wouldn’t accept the 2FA, the website generated an error that it couldn’t access my account, and they replaced a phone tree with an AI that really couldn’t understand what the problem was. I spent an hour on hold, listening to it tell me to go online, and never actually got through to anyone.

            I never thought I would wish for a phone tree. Never. I’m not a phone person at all, but once it’s reached that point I want to speak to a person.

      2. bamcheeks*

        All of those are things that I do in my professional job or have done in past jobs, including things like customer service and retail. And whilst there are some appointments you can schedule via a portal, sometimes it’s incredibly frustrating that you can’t ask basic questions. There are just tons of interactions that people don’t want to replace with technology.

        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          Some people don’t. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that phone calls shouldn’t be an option, just that it shouldn’t always be the ONLY option. For me personally, needing to make a phone call puts something on the “task requiring a lot of spoons that I’ll have to budget for in the next few days” list rather than “I can do this right now”.

      3. MAC*

        My workplace has a new in-house AI platform (government contractor, so we can’t use regular platforms like ChatGPT on sensitive information) and the trainer said something interesting he heard at a conference: “Humans won’t be replaced by AI, they’ll be replaced by humans who know how to use AI.” I’m in communications, so it can definitely feel like AI is coming for me in a different way than someone who does more manual-type labor/construction!

      4. Silver Robin*

        yeah, but I did wait on hold just yesterday to have a person confirm for me that a prescription is, in fact, in the works, because there had been an insurance question and I did not fully trust their automated status. I do appreciate talking to my insurance agent and getting reassurance that I filed correctly and celebration when the work is finished (yay! your roof is fixed! Okay, next step is…). It is both helpful and nice! Addressing the emotional needs of clients is a huge part of customer service, those are people skills. Obviously not to the same extent as a friend or loved one, but it is part of the interaction and computers do not provide it, so if there is enough emotion attached to something, people want to talk to people. Bamcheek’s point was that “enough emotion” is both a lower threshold and more broadly felt than one might expect.

        Also, nowhere did bamcheeks say that phone calls should be *required*. And where are you getting dental appointment? Bamcheeks noted that even when there is a simple website option, people *choose* to call and get the personal touch at higher rates than one would expect. Even acknowledged that lots of stuff has gotten to be self-service. The example was banking, not dentistry, but it did not preclude making appointments.

        Are you actually responding to what was said, or did you have a terrible interaction around this topic recently and those feelings are coming out instead? Sympathies, if that is the case, phone trees do, indeed, suck most of the time.

        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          I was responding to “people want to talk to people”, which was a generic comment, rather than the specific scenario of the insurance claim (which I agree requires the back-and-forth of a phone call).

          1. Silver Robin*

            Right, but if you read the entire comment and take in the context, bamcheeks is talking about the options people choose in their (extensive!) experience and not making any sweeping statements about *requirements* to do it one particular way.

            This is coming off very “not everyone likes sandwiches”

    4. Chas*

      I feel like this is especially true for things that are one-off or at least not routine chores. For example, I prefer self-checkout, and to do my banking or check my power bill online or through an app, because that is easier for me. But if it’s something unusual (like having to put in a claim for insurance, or figure out why my internet is not working even after resetting the router) then I would prefer to just call someone and be able to have a back-and-forth with them then and there, and have them assure me that I’m doing everything right if I’m not 100% sure what the process is, rather than have to deal with the double-whammy of being more anxious about everything AND having to wait longer to get the issue dealt with because the person helping me is only doing so inbetween dealing with a bunch of other people.

      1. Silver Robin*

        yes this is so true. I know I am a generally competent adult but I have been burned too many times trying to do adulting tasks for the first time and getting it wrong; I would very much appreciate a relevant party telling me “yes this is correct we will get back to you in 3-5 business days”. It is also a helpful cya, which has come in handy a couple of times.

  23. This One Here*

    The “hey” issue reminds of a conversation I had with my mother in the early 1970’s (I was born in 1963) about the word “yeah”. My siblings and I sometimes used “yeah”, instead of “yes”, among ourselves and with other children. Mom conveyed to me that our cousins would say “Aunt [my mom]’s kids say ‘yeah’, don’t they, Mom?”

    I think my mom was trying to embarrass me, but seriously, y’all, saying “yeah” to another kid was like saying “hey” to another kid. I didn’t react the way Mom was hoping I would, and I wondered why our cousins cared so much what we said.

    1. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I wonder if your cousins did care or if it was just something they noticed, commented on, and then your mom tried to use it to embarrass you into stopping? Families!

      1. Watry*

        I’d imagine there was probably some context that either Mom or Cousins’ Parent either didn’t know or left out, like Cousins were having an argument or Cousins’ Parent was scolding them for using it.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Kids are quite good at soaking up consistent rules for different circumstances by observation, like that you speak French to Grandma Louise, can jump on Uncle Bob’s back couch but not the one in the front room, and can say ‘yeah’ at Aunt Fran’s so long as the person you’re speaking to is under 10.

      3. iglwif*

        My guess is cousins were scolded for saying “yeah” and protested that This One Here & siblings were allowed to do so, and then Aunt complained to Mom that her kids were setting a bad example and …

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Captain Awkward titled one of her letters ‘ “The whole family agrees with me!” and other manipulative logic’

  24. Testing*

    ”No one is saying a 35-year-old is retiring when she leaves a job she’s been at for eight years” —- sure people are! Check out mrmoneymustache dot com. I guess the concept of FIRE is already somewhat known.

    Then some of those people will end up using all their free time to do some things that do bring in money. Or not. It doesn’t matter. But if they do earn money, the Internet Retirement Police (TM) will try to claim they didn’t retire…. But if you’re working for fun and not for money, being paid money isn’t relevant.

    1. doreen*

      At some point though, “retirement” becomes meaningless. If it can include someone who has never worked for pay, or someone who at 75 is still doing the same job for the same hours that they were at 40 or who spends their time writing books or managing real estate or running their own business, it literally means nothing.

  25. Morning Reader*

    I have no issue with using “retired” to describe LW2’s coworker, until she took another full time job. I retired and then took another job, part time, for a couple of years, myself. But I was definitely retired from full time work.

    My pet peeve with “retired” was with my son-in-law’s mother, who, when I first met her, described herself as such. Readers, the woman has not worked for pay in 40 years, since before she was married and had children. I wanted to ask her what exactly she was retired from. (I didn’t, that would be rude, I just occasionally bitch about it to others.) I think, it might have been a shorthand way of saying she is a certain age and doesn’t work. Can’t really claim to be a SAHM when your kids are out of the house and old enough to marry. But as someone who had been working in jobs for pay and was getting ready to retire myself, it rubbed me the wrong way. In my opinion, you only get to “retire” when you’ve had a job for pay.

    1. Hiring Mgr*

      I don’t see what your in-laws story has to do with this letter though. In this case, who cares whether the colleague had fully retired or not? Either way it was an employee who had been there for 30 years

    2. Workerbee*

      Retired from wiping bottoms and noses? Retired from expectations of clothing / feeding / cleaning / caring for everyone but herself? I don’t know your MIL so don’t have the dislike against her you have, but hell – people who do all that living, breathing work without pay can say they’re retired for as long as they want.

    3. Emmy Noether*

      Seems to me she’s retired from being a SAHM. I wouldn’t want to be a SAHM myself*, but devaluing care work in the way you are does not sit right with me. Let’s just stop with the mommy wars.

      *for a number of reasons, one of which is that it seems much harder to me than my paid job.

    5. Hyaline*

      It’s easy shorthand. What do you want her to say when people ask about work/what do you do/chitchat stuff? Spin out her entire life history? Nah, “I’m retired” fits the bill in many situations.

      1. Morning Reader*

        Yes, I agree it’s shorthand and that it’s not entirely reasonable of me, hence describing it as a “peeve.” The relevance to the question is, what do we mean by retired? I think stopping a job at 65 qualifies, even if the retiree takes another job. It does not usually mean retired from active parenting. It usually means stopping paid work when you’re old enough or have worked enough already to be able to afford not working for pay. It was also confusing in the context I mentioned as I nearly asked what her profession had been before retirement. So, although I should be less peevish about it, I still don’t think “retired” describes someone who has never or hardly ever held a job, and I’ve never heard anyone else use it that way.

      2. Retired or Just Tired?*

        I agree. Also when you are on Medicare, Drs forms etc. ask if you are working. If you are not, the next question is “date of retirement.” IDK what you put if it’s been 20+ years since you’ve had a paying job.

    9. HD*

      She can’t claim to be retired or a SAHM? What is she supposed to call herself then? An unemployed mooch?

  26. Helvetica*

    LW#4 – funnily enough, I just watched a clip from “Yes, Prime Minister” where Jim tells Bernard to take away Humphrey’s key that adjoins the buildings so he can’t enter unannounced. And Bernard has to change the locks to ensure he stays out as he does have a private key as well. Funny on the show but frustrating on your side, of course.

  27. Hiring Mgr*

    What’s the difference between giving someone a retirement party and a party for someone who’s leaving after 30 years?

    1. Cmdrshprd*

      one cake says “happy retirement”

      the other cake says “happy 30 years of working at this job and being over 65 but not retiring.”

    2. fhqwhgads*

      There is no difference, but my takeaway from the letter is something akin to “we don’t ever throw parties for the second thing, but very rarely do for the first, and this seems like it was presented as the first when it was the second and I don’t know how to feel”.

  28. Cupcakes are awesome*

    You may not be able to change the PIN but how about installing a slide lock on the inside of your door? Also I would be concerned that people are entering your space after hours and maybe you should talk to your boss about changing out that lock to a completely new one. This guy sounds like a creep, what does he do when he enters your office? Is he trying to have casual conversation? Because it doesn’t sound like you are “friends” since he has given a hard time in the past when you’ve spoken up. He sounds like a bully to me.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      Because I don’t know enough about the context, and how safe OP feels, I am a bit more dubious about recommending some of the harsher words other people are suggesting (but if OP thinks she can pull it off, I would totally go for it both barrels). I like your suggestion of a sliding lock, and maybe something like a door wedge would work. I think anything that interrupts his plans to be able come in easily and talk at you would work: 1) Make it more difficult for him to get in, 2) Directly tell him he can’t be in here, you’re on deadline, need to focus, whatever works; say this multiple times if he brushes you off 3)Don’t remain seated. Wait for him to expend his energy to get in, and then choose that moment to get up and go do something else. Or else just remain standing and unresponsive: ‘I need to get to work now, if there’s nothing else’. Also I really hope your boss will listen if he doesn’t respond to direct instructions.

      1. HonorBox*

        I don’t think harsh words need to be used. I think it can be as simple as saying “when my door is closed, I need to focus. Please do not knock, and absolutely do not enter.”

        I also don’t agree with installing an additional lock or adding anything to the office. That might provide an additional barrier to entry, but this guy will probably just try to get in and then knock until acknowledged. Add to that the point that @Cupcakes makes – others have access to this office and when LW is not there, the additional lock doesn’t actually help control access. If the LW directly states that the guy cannot just enter and there’s anything more than acknowledgement/understanding, they have even more info when they go to the boss (which they should already) to request a PIN change.

      2. Some Words*

        Direct and firm isn’t harsh or rude.

        This will not be solved without the LW using very clear language that these visits are not welcome. Sure, be kind, but be direct enough to leave no room for misunderstanding. Extra locks and door wedges are simply avoiding the missing stair.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          I think you’ve misread me as being against harsh words and/or direct words; I’m in favour of both as options because of the alarming amount of manipulation here, but they are different as I said. (Directly asking him to stop is of course essential before OP raises this with her boss; the first thing they’re going to ask is if OP already told him to stop). However I don’t see how restoring a previously usable lock, which OP found useful for preventing interruptions can be interpreted as supporting a missing stair! It is possible to use both verbal and physical barriers. Missing stair theory is also usually a criticism against organisations for not getting rid of creeps, or for creating a culture of not reporting creeps. It usually doesn’t seek to make individuals responsible for that, all OP can do personally is speak to her boss.

  29. Workerbee*

    OP #4: “ I have not directly asked him to stop because he will drag it on and on for days and it makes me uncomfortable . Every time he’s done something that’s made me uncomfortable and I’ve said so, that’s what happens.”

    I’m not sure what “drag it on and on for days” means, but Mr. Dude figured out fast where your line is, didn’t he? And so he continues to blithely cross it.

    It’s time you sent him back to his side of that line.

    And aren’t you already uncomfortable with his barging-in behavior already?

    1. Speak up for yourself every time he barges in. Loudly. Whatever phrase comes to mind. A shocked bellow of “WHY ARE YOU IN HERE?” or “YOU ARE UNAUTHORIZED!” to set him back on his heels even if no one else is in earshot. And of course, tell him very, very clearly not to do it ever again. I know, we’re trained to let the assholes sh*t all over us, but it does get easier to sling their own crap back at them. Remember, this guy is CHOOSING to act this way.
    2. Document. Hell, take pictures if allowed. Email definitive words (“As of This Date at This Time, Mr. Dude chose to access my private code for the 120th time despite me telling him this was unauthorized, unacceptable, “No,” and to stop immediately”) and any images to all applicable bosses, HR, building maintenance.
    3. Add “My PIN needs to be changed immediately for security. When will this be done?”
    4. Every time. Send this every time. Make it their problem.

    Good luck! Mr. Dude is, alas, not unique (I am sure he thinks he is), but that means you can use methods against him.

    Other methods described of jimmying the PIN pad off the door and installing a new lock are also ones I applaud.

    2. Former Lab Rat*

      How have you asked him to stop? Nicely? He’s going to ignore that. I agree that at this point I would just jump out of my chair and yell get the hell out of here. Loud enough that people nearby can hear. Call attention to his action. Do you have HR? If his visits are making you uncomfortable that’s bordering on hostile workplace action. Go to them and complain. Especially if you are female this is sexual harassment. He’s repeating an action that makes you uncomfortable even after you asked him to stop.

      Keep a record of every single time he comes in and how much time you spend trying to get him to exit. Then go to your boss – and the boss above – and say his constant entering your workspace is negatively affecting your ability to work. You will have documentation of how many hours you spend dealing with this a**h***.

      This guy is a jerk and deliberately harassing you. Someone in power needs to shut this down. Sorry but you are going to have to really escalate this to higher ups. Being nice to him is not going to work.

      1. New Jack Karyn*

        LW is not going to leap out of her chair and yell, “Get the hell out of here!”

        She has not done the intermediate step of telling him directly and firmly to knock it off. First things first.

    3. Aerin*

      That’s exactly what I came here to say. You are already uncomfortable! But you are uncomfortable indefinitely, whereas apparently asserting yourself makes things uncomfortable for days and then it stops. He’ll absolutely be unhappy about it, and? “The displeasure of some rando is my problem to solve” is a mindset you picked up from somewhere, and it might be worth trying to untangle and unlearn that. And a good place to start is by telling him that he’s not allowed in your office anymore, at all, for any reason. If you need to work with him you can Zoom, go to his office, or grab a conference room. If he wants to come in to tell you that the building is on fire you’d rather burn. People like this see nuance as loopholes to exploit, so he’s lost the privilege completely in all cases forever end of story. If (when) he tries to come into your office after you’ve communicated this, immediately pick up the phone and call security.

    4. Antilles*

      I’m not sure what “drag it on and on for days” means, but Mr. Dude figured out fast where your line is, didn’t he? And so he continues to blithely cross it.
      I assume the “drag it on and on for days” is that he keeps bringing it up, pestering her, questioning her, guilt-tripping her, etc. Why did you say I made you uncomfortable last Friday? Why did you act like me coming to chat about the Super Bowl was such an intrusion? Well *I* don’t think I did anything wrong. Jeez it was just a five-minute chit-chat, why are you making such a big deal out of this? C’mon it’s not like you’re so busy you can’t spare five minutes. Etc etc until OP just gives up.
      And of course, he’s willing to act like that because OP has very clearly demonstrated that she lacks the fortitude to push back in any meaningful way. Until/unless she decides to stop putting up with this crap, Mr. Dude is going to continue crossing that line because, well, why wouldn’t he?

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I’m just going to point out that “lack of fortitude” isn’t the only possible reason to put up with crap from a man encroaching on your boundaries. I go into freeze/fawn mode due to my history, even if they aren’t being physically threatening (yet).

        1. Antilles*

          That’s fair and it wasn’t a great phrasing, I’ll admit, because there are reasons why you might want to decide otherwise. But I do stand by my point that until/unless she chooses to take action, nothing is going to change here.

  30. HEY*

    I asked #1. A quick search of my chat and email history showed that my boss occasionally addressed me with “hey,” so I’m guessing it wasn’t a “hey is for horses” issue.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Oh, that’s interesting! It could still be the case that she finds it lands like an exclamation/surprise when used towards her verbally. Was there an opportunity when she raised this to say “Oh, why is that – out of interest?” I don’t know if that’s exactly prudent but I love talking about word usage and would not be able to help myself asking about such a definitive opinion about a word.

  31. I'm A Little Teapot*

    #4 – you specifically don’t want to tell this guy to leave you alone because he’s going to make a fuss about it. Here’s your choices: tell him to leave you alone and deal with the fuss, or deal with him interrupting you.

    There are no other options. All the get the pin changed, talk to the boss etc options really fall under tell him to leave you alone option. I don’t know why you have such a hard time with telling the guy to leave you alone, but that is your issue and until you figure it out, this sort of thing is going to keep happening. You are not required to be a rug.

    1. HonorBox*

      Right, right, right. If he makes a fuss, that’s a him problem. He’s going to look like a fool AND it gives the LW even more to share with the boss, showing how the issue is larger than it appears. Let him look like a fool because he is fussing over someone telling him that he’s not authorized to just enter a closed room.

  32. H.Regalis*

    “Hay is for horses”!! I haven’t heard that in years. What a blast from the past.

    LW1 – Were there a lot of things about your former boss that bothered you? This seems like such a small thing that wouldn’t be irksome with someone you otherwise like that it makes me wonder if your old boss was massively frustrating or annoying in other ways, and this became one more thing to draw your ire.

    2. HEY*

      In short, yes. I know former boss well and she can be… difficult to communicate with.
      Most irksome is that she used this greeting from time to time to address me in email and chat.
      It’s difficult to break an ingrained habit like this and I’d think of her instruction daily when I’d message her, adding to the annoyance. Other staff would forget and she’d remind them.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Okay, if she used it towards you but wouldn’t let you address her that way, that’s just being an ass.

  33. HonorBox*

    OP4 – First and foremost, to quote Dan Savage… USE YOUR WORDS. I mean this kindly, but if this guy is going to drag it out, so what? And I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this, but if the response is anything but “OK, I will stop” you have even more data to share with your boss when you request a change to the PIN.

    So start with, “Joe, when I need to focus and cannot be disturbed, I close my door. I’m telling you to stop knocking and definitely stop entering.”

    Then tell your boss that you need the PIN changed ASAP. That it was given to someone to decorate is a thing, but that was a one-time thing. Tell him that Joe is continuing to use it. You’ve noted with signs that you are busy and aren’t to be disturbed and you’ve now told Joe directly that he shouldn’t be bothering you when your door is closed, and he cannot just barge in. If Joe says anything in response when you tell him to stop, mention that to your boss too. And if Joe continues, cite that as well.

    If need be, mention any sort of data security issues that might be in play. Or mention that you’ve been interrupted on an important call. Or hell, mention that you might need to change clothes from time to time.

    But first, tell Joe to stop. Don’t let the worry about his reaction prevent you from solving the issue. His reaction is on him. You have a right to not have someone barging into your office.

    1. Water Everywhere*

      If he doesn’t stop when clearly told to, I would straight up name Joe’s behaviour as harassment and a personal safety issue when reporting it to your boss, his boss, HR, and anyone else up the chain with power to act (to be clear, I believe it already IS harassment). That framing might get their attention finally.

  34. Northern Neighbour*

    I’m going to have to disagree with the advice to LW1. I would consider the level of formality of language used in an office to be similar to the level of formality in an office dress code. Different workplaces have different norms. If you want to fit into a specific office culture, and advance in a particular workplace, you might do better to match the type of language used in there.

    There was definitely more than a whiff of ageism in the reply. Why is that “ism”still okay? We don’t know the age of the boss, but an age difference was assumed. Yes, people of different generations grew up in different times, with different conversation patterns. As an employee, or just as a human in the world, that seems to be something to be sensitive to and to be aware of how to “use your words” according to the situation you are in.
    “Hey” is not a bad greeting, it’s just more casual. Your boss was likely just signalling you to behave more professionally. A useful cue.

    1. metadata minion*

      It’s irritating when management tries to impose a more formal workplace — in dress or language — than seems warranted by the work.

    2. NameNeverSaves*

      As you said, hey is more casual. I don’t think LW1 or Alison disagree. The question was whether it’s rude. Also I think ageism is a stretch. Neither prejudice nor discrimination is being displayed here. In fact, Alison does not appear to be guessing their age, just pointing out who else has expressed similar sentiments – teachers and elders of her youth.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      No one has tried to guess the age of OPs boss so far, or assumed an age gap. Alison said “your youth” to OP, not “her youth” because it’s the type of thing kids hear. That’s why it’s an old rule, because a lot of the blanket rule stuff kids learn, especially about formality, gets left behind and replaced by their own judgement.

  35. Delta Delta*

    1. I’d go super formal and say, “good tidings, Jane” or some variation thereon when I see her. It’s not “hey”! I am also just petty enough that it would be fun for me.

    4. I haven’t seen someone mention this yet, but if OP works in an office that requires a lock and a PIN, it strikes me that OP probably works on sensitive information that isn’t meant for other people in the company to see, let alone people who work for other companies. This should be a concern for the boss, who doesn’t seem to care that Wakeen From Next Door is constantly bothering OP. In addition to telling him to stay out, OP really needs to discuss this directly with the boss. It ought to be framed in terms of 1) information security (if that’s an issue) and 2) the impact on OP’s ability to work effectively. Boss may not dislike Wakeen and not think it’s a big deal until he hears that OP can’t finish the deadline on the big project because of all the distractions. If this is a company big enough for an HR department, it might be worth talking to them, as well.

    Another idea occurred to me – if there’s enough space, maybe put a folding screen just inside the door so when he bursts in he cannot see you and would have to make a production of getting in. This might also be distracting, but engaging in a little hostile architecture can sometimes change behavior.

    1. HonorBox*

      I disagree about the screen. While that might be one more obstacle for Wakeen, I think the only real solution is for Wakeen to see that closed door = do not disturb. The screen doesn’t solve for the knock and the unauthorized entry. It throws up a barrier, but the distraction doesn’t go away. In fact, I think it would piss me off even more if I were the LW because it prolongs the interruption potentially. OP needs to talk to Wakeen, and probably needs to give their boss a heads up that they’ve done so while also requesting that the PIN be changed.

  36. Somehow I Manage*

    OP3 – I strongly dislike when someone has a VM that hasn’t been set up, or when the outgoing message is generic like it is just the number or something similar to your situation. That said, I realize that’s my personal preferences shining through. If nothing happens after I leave a VM, I’m going to be annoyed. But it sounds very much like your situation was handled quickly and efficiently, so I think I’d just let this go. Everything you needed was taken care of. You got the call at the appropriate time. You shared additional information and your claim was processed. That’s exactly what you needed, so whether or not the claims rep had her outgoing message customized or not, the outcome was what you needed in a timeframe that seems pretty standard.

    1. Kevin Sours*

      I don’t think it’s just personal preference here. This isn’t just somebody’s office VM box. It’s both customer facing and apparently an expected part of the work flow. It’s off putting. At a minimum the message needs to be something that confirms that you didn’t get directed to the wrong voice mail.

  37. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

    I have not directly asked him to stop because he will drag it on and on for days and it makes me uncomfortable

    Okay, but he’s already making you uncomfortable every. single. day you work there, LW4, so how is this different? If your boss won’t do anything, you need to get building security/HR involved. Because this is a security issue. Why does he need to come into your office at all? Anything that can be moved out (drink making facilities/coffee machine??) should be moved out, otherwise he needs to be locked out.

    1. HonorBox*

      And a privacy issue. I have an office with a door, and have changed clothes multiple times in my office. People know that when the door is closed, they should either completely leave me alone or at least knock before entering.

      And you’re right about the discomfort. If the guy does drag it on and on for days, he’s going to look foolish. He’s been told not to disturb when the door is closed and told not to enter. If it is dragged on, I think that becomes much, much worse looking for him. He’s making it uncomfortable and weird, and I’d like to think any reasonable boss would tell him quickly to knock it the heck off.

      1. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

        I suspect the boss is not reasonable given the info in the letter but it’s certainly worth bringing up so LW can document she tried to do this the polite way when she has to go over his head.

    2. Laura*

      This won’t stop the initial interruption, but is a non-confrontational way to minimize the length of time you spend with them- I picked this tip up from an earlier post and it’s been a great help with a chatty coworker who isn’t great at picking up cues: pretend like you were about to leave your desk and walk the person back to their desk or a neutral spot. Like crab your coffee or water cup and chat with them while you walk to the kitchen. Then refill and say “I’m in the weeds right now, got to get back and won’t be able to chat later, have a good day man.” Then if he comes by again you’ve got something in place and can say “hey man, still working on this, see you tomorrow.” Then turn back to work and ignore them until they leave. You’re going to have to go out of your comfort zone to change something, how much is up to you!

    3. What_the_What*

      “One of my coworkers who works for a different company”

      Not sure HR can help much since apparently he works for a different company? But, since apparently they are sharing an office facility (maybe different companies supporting the same client, presumably?) there must be some sort of facilities manager who is capable of changing out the PINs (and why was it given out to someone who “wanted to decorate it” for the OP, and now EVERYONE has it? Security seems pretty lax there. Go to facilities, get the PIN changed.

      1. New Jack Karyn*

        I don’t know about LW’s specific situation, because every workplace is different. But generally, HR can help when a worker is being harassed by someone who doesn’t work for that company. The laws in place apply to customers, vendors, contractors, etc., not just coworkers.

        1. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

          100%, not to mention the security and privacy issues mentioned elsewhere with this guy just barging in on LW whenever he feels like it.

    4. Marmalade*

      My first thought was what if someone was in there pumping breast milk and had locked the door for privacy?!

  38. HeyThere*

    I find hey or heya a perfectly fine email greeting but not so much for a verbal greeting. So interesting that several folks have indicated the opposite.

  39. JAASON*

    RE- Voicemail

    Like the LW I recently had to deal with an insurance claim. Multiple times they would have a deadline of about 5 days that they needed certain information or else my case may be denied. If the LW had something similar- the case manager needed the dates within 5 days and after 4 I had heard no response I too would be concerned.

    The voicemail greeting? Somewhat unprofessional not to have the person’s name (at least their first name) and the company’s name in the greeting.

  40. CityMouse*

    So as someone who works with the public I do think people have to understand the realities of our work. I don’t know about the claims person in LW3, but I’m guessing she likely had to deal with a large number of claims a day. I sometimes also get people wanting a large amount of personal attention and what they have to understand is that I have to handle about a dozen files a day and I simply don’t have time to walk people through every step. LW3 got the resolution she wanted so the process did work.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I deal with this with my mother all the time. She always thinks she can just pick up the phone and get a hold of someone who will devote themselves to solving her issue for as long as it takes. She doesn’t understand that the person she’s calling probably has to deal with dozens or dozens of dozens of issues like her in a day and she is not a face, not a name, but just an account number. The world really has changed.

      1. CityMouse*

        FWIW, I do see the people I work with as individuals, not numbers. But I had a guy telling me all about his various surgeries because he got someone on the phone (to be clear had nothing to do with the file in front of me). I assume he was just lonely. But as hard as it is, I just don’t have time for that.

  41. Peanut Hamper*

    #1: it could just be that it irked her in some way that grated on her ears. It’s a weird hill to die on either way. It’s not like she asked to address her as the Countess Regina Bartholomew, which would be very precious indeed. (Unless, of course, she actually was the Countess Regina Bartholomew.)

    1. Morning Reader*

      It would still be precious to use the full title. From my extensive British tv viewing, I think “milady” would work as form of address. But never “hey, lady.”

    2. Czhorat*

      I agree with this 100% – I don’t love it, but it’s weird to make a big issue over and even weirder to let that issue get enough in your head that you write to an advice column rather than just start saying “hello” or “avast!” or “salutations” or “yo, dawg” or some other preferred greeting. (note that some of the above are better substitutes than others)

  42. Czhorat*

    I don’t love “hey!” and wouldn’t use it; it comes across to me as extremely casual and familiar, and I’d only use it with friends or in more casual, less business-oriented settings.

    Is this one where I’m a bit out of touch? Maybe, but it still feels to me like one that can be polarizing. In my view this is one in which even if you *might* be technically correct that a majority wouldn’t consider it rude it isn’t unreasonable to pivot to something else if someone is irritated by it; this isn’t the hill on which to die.

  43. Lily Rowan*

    #5, I have reached out to a potential hiring manager about a job that wasn’t posted yet…. when it was an internal job AND I knew the hiring manager. I was trying to feel out the whole situation, but the hiring manager was someone I might have a casual coffee with anyway, so it wasn’t so weird to peg the conversation to this possible role.

    Using an “informational interview” request to try to get around a hiring process is annoying to do to a stranger.

    1. el l*

      Similar thought from me: This is where having a relationship with someone who’s at least in the organization (and preferably in the room for hiring) vastly changes what’s possible. It’s WAY less obnoxious to ask info of someone who knows you than getting a LinkedIn message from some rando asking for 30 minutes.

  44. MickeyT*

    Re: LW #3 – calls regarding the insurance claim. Oh sister, I feel your pain. Last year, I was hit by an uninsured motorist (and it was their fault) so I had to go through my own insurance, which is the company that has good hands. I don’t know if it’s the regular process or my claim contact was really bad at communicating but it was such a frustrating situation. Their VM message said ‘not to leave multiple messages’ but when more than two days passed after I left a message, YES, I am calling again. It *eventually* worked out but it was more stressful than it needed to be. When I received the post-claim survey, I left a scathing review. Even taking into account the claim contact may have been busy, there was no excuse for the lack of communication back from them.

    1. MyStars*

      LW4: If I am reading correctly, you have experienced boundary-crossing with this individual before, and he has responded by continuing to cross the boundary by complaining loudly about it. This repeated behavior may be becoming a personal safety issue. He’s friendly and social when it suits him, but when you block it, is he going to start meeting you at your car in the parking lot? Your boss and HR should be responding to your requests for attention to be paid here. Yes, use your words with him, but you also have experience that the words don’t matter. Please give us an update on this one. I’m worried for you.

      2. Unpopular Opinion Ahead*

        It’s a pretty big leap to go from “a bored colleague keeps coming into my office and talking to me” to assuming he’s going to become dangerous if his access is blocked. While I (and I think most here) are assuming the LW is a female. there’s no proof or indication in the letter of the LW’s gender. The “distractor” is definitely a clueless oaf, but jumping to being worried about the OP’s safety and assuming he’ll turn violent just seems such a stretch. The assumption that any man who pays any unwanted attention to a female MUST also be dangerous is also pretty unfair.

        1. MyStars*

          * Any person who pays unwanted attention and subsequently disregards all direct requests to do differently.

        2. Typity*

          He is not “paying unwanted attention.” He is overriding her repeatedly expressed desire for him to buzz off. (And of course LW is a woman. I’ll happily buy you a balloon bouquet if I’m wrong here.) He is using a PIN he has no business knowing at all to barge into her LOCKED office against her will.

          The Creep has been sufficiently intimidating, yammering at her for days, that she no longer tells him directly to go away — yet another sign that LW is a woman. Her boss is not taking her concerns seriously — a MAJOR sign LW is a woman. Creep doesn’t care whether LW welcomes his company or not as long as he’s getting what he wants. I can safely say that men doing that to other men in an office setting is vanishingly rare. Horses and zebras.

          This guy sprinted past “pest” and right to “nuisance,” then on to “menace” when he started unlocking the door to let himself in, and given the effect he’s having on LW’s work, personal life, and mental health. He’s rapidly approaching “dangerous” if he’s not there already.

          This is a serious situation.

    2. Texan in Exile*

      I am confused. I can see being upset if they lacked information and weren’t asking you for it. Is that what was happening? Or were they just not giving you progress reports?

  45. Nathan*

    Re: LW2

    I had a colleague who retired from his job, only to pop up on LinkedIn employed by someone else. I was slightly confused but decided it was none of my business. We ran into each other a while afterward, and he said that he and his wife “mutually decided” that retired life was not for him and that he needed something to occupy his attention.

    So yes, I agree with Alison that there are myriad situations which can and do crop up where someone might in good faith claim to be retiring and then later change their mind (in addition to the many other examples in the comments).

  46. Not A Manager*

    LW4 – Get a tiny unobtrusive lock and screw it into your side of the door. It can be as simple as a hook and eye. If he makes a fuss, say blandly, “oh, people kept overlooking my do not disturb sign.” (Yes, I know this is probably contrary to building rules, but unless they are rigorously policed, I doubt anyone would notice.)

    1. What_the_What*

      Before modifying the workspace without permission, the obvious, simple, easy answer is to go to the people who manage the entry PINs and have it changed. The LW has let this go on for way too long for pretty minor reasons “he’ll make it weird and awkward for days”… is such a “so what” for me. He’s the one making it weird or whatever, so why should the LW care to the point it’s affecting his/her PERSONAL life? That whole situation is bizarre.

      1. Khatul Madame*

        LW4 seems to be afraid of this coworker, so she cannot just “so what” the situation.
        You can tell her not to be afraid, but it’s not that easy.

    2. Texan in Exile*

      As someone who just finished reading Katherine Center’s “Things You Save in a Fire” and who also is up to date on all 12 seasons of “Chicago Fire,” I would strongly advise against locking yourself in your office. True, Cruz’s Slamigan could probably open your door, but that’s just more smoke you’re inhaling while the firefighters are delayed getting you out.

      2. Prudence Snooter*

        But how is that different than having a PIN nobody knows? Or are you saying you’re against any kind of lock on an office door?

        1. Texan in Exile*

          I guess I’m against any lock on an office door! I searched and it looks like there are some fire standards requiring locks to disengage when the power goes out or upon sprinkler system activation. So maybe the PIN lock meets those requirements but a lock the LW installs herself would not.

          (And now I am thinking about the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire and how it led to the passage of health and safety laws in the workplace.)

          (And how that man is trying to get rid of OSHA.)

  47. Caramel & Cheddar*

    LW1: I think if your boss says they hate being addressed in some particular way, you don’t address them in that particular way. I agree with the person up thread who thinks it’s weird to characterize this as “imperious” behaviour; I’m getting the sense you probably had other issues with this manager.

    That said, I think “hey” being appropriate depends highly on the context. I also think you need something more than just “hey” for it to come across warmly or casually.

    – “Hey” alone in an email would feel way too informal
    – “Hey” alone in a Teams message would annoy me because I need you to get to the point instead of waiting for me to say hello in return
    – “Hey” alone and spoken out loud doesn’t tell me who you’re talking to
    – “Hey, Fergus” isn’t something I would ever use in an email, though if someone says it to me I’m not going to be mad about it
    – “Hey, Fergus” or even just “hey, there” in a Teams message feels tonally appropriate for the medium (though please still tell me what you want!)
    – “Hey, Fergus” in spoken aloud at least lets me know who you’re talking to, presuming you say it in more of a “Hey, Fergus, do you know where the toner is?” way and not a shouty way

  48. What_the_What*

    Yeah LW3 needs to lighten up. Do you have any idea the sheer volume of claims, calls, and emails a processor deals with on the daily? They aren’t there to be your friend and have a chat. It’s transactional. “I need XYZ information.” You provide it; they proceed to use that to process the claim. If you weren’t seeing MOVEMENT on the claim, then I could see being annoyed, but the fact that you did is a pretty clear signal “Mary” got the info she needed and was processing accordingly. When I ask a colleague for something I don’t always respond with “I have received the information I requested and I will now proceed to use it.” I think your expectations are out of touch. Your claim was processed. In all the weirdness going on, take the WIN.

  49. Rex Libris*

    Regarding “Hey” as a salutation… I’ll just say that personally, I’ve found life is remarkably more pleasant if I don’t get hung up on incredibly trivial things.

  50. Tabby Baltimore*

    LW2: I haven’t read all the comments, but the first thing that occurred to me after reading your letter was that the colleague retired from your hospital system and found a new job working for the Veteran’s Administration, either as a federal civil servant, or as a VA contractor. Please don’t hold this against her. She may not be taking Social Security yet, or her hospital pension may not cover her bills sufficiently, which is why she’s still working after retiring.

  51. What_the_What*

    OMG LW4! Tell him to stop bothering you. So what if he makes it weird for a few days? But if you’re not up to using your words, then use NO words. He walks in, you put on headphones and keep your head down working. He talks. You don’t respond in any way. You continue looking at your monitor, paperwork, whatever. Keep typing away or filling in spreadsheets or hell just type gibberish if it’ll get the point across. Eventually even the most clueless will get bored and he’ll find someone else. But, even if YOU can’t change the door PIN, someone (usually in facilities/management) can. GET IT CHANGED.

    1. Ms. Eleanous*

      2nd that.
      Facilities and maintenance directly.
      They often just get the job done – and have sympathy with someone dealing with a jerk.
      especially a boss- protected jerk.

  53. Retail Dalliance*

    Uh oh. I might find myself on the wrong side of this one. For LW1–I’m a high school teacher and I encourage my students to begin emails to me with “Hi” instead of “Hey” because “Hey” seems a little too casual. I certainly don’t require them to use “Dear” though! I haven’t considered myself imperious at all, but now I guess I should re-think.

    “Hi Mrs. Smith” vs “Hey Mrs. Smith”…I don’t know..still sounds weird to use “Hey” and I don’t use it myself in correspondence with colleagues!

    1. Prudence Snooter*

      I think your situation is different though. “Hey” does seem too casual in the context of high schoolers emailing their teacher. “Hey” between adults communicating verbally is not the same thing.

    2. Overthinking It*

      I’m a Southerner and we use “Hey” as a greeting (as well as a sentence starter). “Hi” just seems more. . . childish? And therefore, even less formal. But it’s ok too.

  54. Iusemymiddlename*

    LW2 – I think the telling phrase in this letter is “which is where many of the folks in this department try to get to because the pay is so much better there.” Sounds like the letter writer is upset that a “boomer” is taking a job from a younger worker. That seems to be a common attitude these days.

  55. Anon, anon*

    #1. I lump the “hey” people in with the “you can, the question is may you” people; trying to enforce a grammatical rule that never existed.

  56. Sleeplesskj*

    Re #2: as someone who “retired” after 20+ years with a school district, I almost immediately became a legal assistant in the private sector. Retiring was the only way I could claim my pension benefits.

  57. Too many dogs*

    LW #1: When I saw this post, my brain immediately went to the old Andy Griffith shows: “Hey Barney”, “Hey Gomer”. I am in the South, and people greet each other like this a lot. No disrespect intended at all. I am not originally from the South; where I grew up it would’ve been “Hi Barney” or “Hi Gomer.”
    LW #2: I don’t know if this was a “real” retirement or not. I’m applauding the person over 65 who wants to keep working, and applauding the hospital that hired her, showing respect for her experience.

  58. Overthinking It*

    “Retiring might also have been used because the leaving employ was going to start drawing on an employer sponsored pension scheme.

  59. Art3mis*

    #3 – Claims adjusters have A LOT of claims on their hands. They don’t have time to confirm receipt of every voicemail.

    1. Rotating Username*

      They could still record some vaguely personalized greeting that confirms that the claimant has reached the right number.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Agreed. I think an identifying voice mail message is a professional minimum. I don’t think that carries into personal life, where people might have safety reasons for non-identifying voicemail greetings.

  60. Overthinking It*

    I remember in the 90s there were a lot of youngish men with AIDS who would claim to be “retired” when in fact they were on permanent disability. It was so common to frame it this way that a coworker of mine confused our older grand-boss by disclosing that he had AIDS and needed to “retire.”

  61. Generic Name*

    #2 What I think got missed in the previous discussion and in today’s response is that in certain jobs (often government or military but not always) a person can officially retire after a certain age and number of years and service and receive pension/retirement benefits. Often the years of service is something like 25 or 30 or based on an equation that takes into account your age. So if someone starts work at 25 and is eligible for retiring with full benefits after 25 years of service, they are retiring at 50. I’ve known several people who retired (with benefits) from a job and then either come back as a contractor or go work elsewhere and then retire for real years later. So using the term “retire” can mean someone gets money they wouldn’t get if they “resigned”.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Exactly! And I’m wondering, did anyone even ask the coworker what her plans were or did they all see her age and just make assumptions?

      Or if some people did know maybe the coworker didn’t know why they were calling it a retirement party when she was leaving for another job, and she didn’t know what to do. Especially if it happened in the moment.

  62. Pounce de Lion*

    It would feel weird for everyone to go through the retirement celebration ritual for what turned out to be a farewell party. It would be like attending a bridal shower and learning later that it was actually a birthday party. Not a crime against humanity, but…odd. The future-former-co-worker deserved their party and well wishes, but someone should have nipped the elderhostel talk in the bud.

    (unless there was a strategic need for secrecy, of course, but even then the LW is entitled to their feelings. Secret secrets are no fun!)

    3. KateM*

      I don’t think retiring and leaving work are as different as bridal shower and birthday party. Birthday and nameday, maybe.

    4. Sunflower*

      I don’t think you can compare it to a shower and birthday. She *is* retiring, though the retirement is from the company and not the job force, even though her coworkers are thinking she’s spending her days feeding ducks at the park and gardening from now on.

    5. doreen*

      I think some of this might be a cultural difference between working at a place that has a pension and working someplace that does not. When I worked at government agencies retirement meant one thing – a person was going to stop work at that agency and collect their pension. It had nothing to do with whether or not they already had another job lined up, or whether they planned to get one in the future or if they were going to continue the second job they already had. They might even get another job with a different government and earn another pension. My husband ,on the other hand, always worked at companies without a pension and “retirement” there always meant at least ending fulltime work. If someone worked there for 30 years ( which rarely happened) and they left to open their own business or move to another company, they wouldn’t have called it retirement- although they would have gotten exactly the same sort of party after 30 years regardless of why they were leaving.

  63. Smurfette*

    OP3, she was probably just too busy to make a call specifically to tell you that she had received the information. Jobs like this usually have unrealistic targets and finding an extra 5-10 minutes to call someone to say “yes, I got the message you left me” is not realistic.

  64. ZSD*

    #4 I’m surprised there aren’t more comments calling out how scary, or at least utterly inappropriate, the co-worker’s behavior is. I mean, even if there’s not a sign on the door, when someone’s office door is closed, you don’t bug them, and you certainly don’t enter without permission! And he’s *entering your code* to open your door when it’s locked?! That is really, really weird.
    I think all the advice that the LW change the pin/get a doorstop/otherwise make it physically harder for the guy to enter is putting the onus on the LW to take action that wouldn’t be necessary if the guy would just *behave appropriately.*

    1. Observer*

      putting the onus on the LW to take action that wouldn’t be necessary if the guy would just *behave appropriately.*

      And? What else is the LW supposed to do? The reality is that it’s not possible for the LW just go “poof” and Jerk CW starts behaving. So the only thing we can do is give advice that helps her manage a difficult situation.

      1. Skippy*

        We can help LW not normalize this outrageous behavior. We can tell them to carry metaphorical mace and also urge them to push back hard on a situation that makes it necessary.

        1. HonorBox*

          I think we can help not normalize while also suggesting ways to get the Jerk CW to stop. Making it more difficult is not a great way because it prolongs the issue and might make the discomfort linger. Making it impossible by changing the PIN is a solid stop sign. And directly telling the Jerk CW to stop is a way to hopefully make it stop while also giving the LW some solid evidence that they’ve done everything they can when they have to escalate this further.

    2. Prudence Snooter*

      LW4’s situation strikes me as super scary – men who ignore boundaries are scary. Even if she (assuming LW is a woman) is able to stop the guy from physically entering her office, what does she do when she’s outside the office? This guy sounds like a stalker and I really wish we had more context, such as:

      – What does LW think his motivation is?
      – What does he do in her office after barging in?
      – What did LW say to him to get the “drag it out for days” reaction and what specifically was that reaction?
      – How many times has LW brought this up to her boss and how did she phrase it?
      – Does he only bother her in her office or is he following her around other areas?
      – How can this person be both a coworker and someone who works for a different company?

      Best of luck to you LW, you’ve gotten a lot of good advice from commenters here. Please update us!

    3. New Jack Karyn*

      I think we’re all taking it as a given that his behavior is outrageous! That’s why we’re not talking about it. The commentariat has moved to action steps.

      Yes, she does have to take action. He will not stop unless he does. If he was going to stop on his own, he would have by now. So she has choices to make.

    4. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

      Because the LW is already pretty aware this is creepy and inappropriate! So we are suggesting ways to stop it happening.

  65. Khatul Madame*

    LW4 – why does the coworker come to your office? Is it to get supplies or files? Make copies or do anything else that requires specific equipment located in your office? Do these supplies or equipment need to be kept in a locked room? Are you responsible for them and they must be located where you sit?
    If there is a “business reason” for him to come in, he will continue to do so, and push your buttons. It is clear that he enjoys making you uncomfortable. I wonder if this rises to bullying/harassment level?
    Of course, telling him not to barge in is still the first thing you should do, before you escalate to your boss and his boss. But think about also removing the reason for him to go into your office at all.

  66. BigBird*

    LW #2–it is very common here in the US for people who are terminating employment when they are eligible for retirement benefits to call that transaction retirement. In my current and prior organizations that is coded as a retirement on all HR information systems to indicate that the person is entitled to the benefits that go along with those age and length of service requirements. There are no job police who monitor peoples’ career moves as they move on. Anyone who has worked for the same employer for over 30 years has earned one helluva party, and bravo to her for getting a job that not only pays better, but probably has less-judgmental colleagues.

  67. CommanderBanana*

    In my experience, every boss I’ve had who has been nitpicky about language usage has been a crappy boss. I had one who brought up in a performance review that she didn’t like that she overheard me use the phrase “what’s up?” when greeting a coworker.

    My last boss harped about the phrase “no problem” (flashbacks to the periodic letters to Miss Manners from outraged boomers whose entire day has been ruined by someone having the temerity to say ‘no problem’ to them).

    Professional communication is an important thing, it is appropriate to give people feedback about it, but language and how we use it is in a constant state of evolution.

    1. Zona the Great*

      Yeah I had a boss who, not only had time to care, but who actually thought it was reasonable to come to me to tell me he didn’t like that I opened emails with, “good morning”. Ridiculous and ineffectual.

    2. bighairnoheart*

      This is absolutely my experience too! If my boss made a rule like that OP’s did, I’d go along with it for the sake of peace, but privately, it would raise my hackles.

  68. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #5 – If I were a hiring manager and someone I didn’t know reached out to me wanting to take time out of my workday to show them the site for a role that they 1) aren’t being considered for because the role doesn’t exist yet and 2) that they don’t even know if they’re qualified for, I would be so turned off by that applicant.

    A better way to go about it would be to ask that employee who gave you that intel to refer you to the hiring manager and have them pass along your resume. If you’re not sure if you’re qualified, ask if that employee can get more information from the hiring manager.

  69. all the star wars*

    Number 4 is insane on so many levels. Your boss knows that a person *from another company* (so technically not even a coworker??) can and will enter YOUR office without authorization (PIN access be damned) despite your protests and is just letting that happen? Despite your complaints??? And no one is at least changing the damn PIN code???

    I get that this guy is acting like a brat when you tell him to not disturb you but the signs aren’t working so: you need to tell him to not disturb you. And lay it out, very clearly, to your boss, what is happening. And that at the very least, the PIN code needs to be changed. And that this idiot’s boss should probably be looped in because 0h yeah–he doesn’t even go here!!!! (thank you, Mean Girls).

    Putting up signs isn’t working. Wishful thinking that the dude will just magically get it are not working, and will not work. So you’re going to have to put some more direct effort in here. And someone needs to change the damn PIN code because seriously WTF. Why does he have it if he doesn’t even work there???

    1. HonorBox*

      It would be really interesting to present data to the other person’s boss and LW’s own boss at the same time.
      -Coworker has dropped by x times this week, an average of y times per day.
      -Coworker has entered my office z times when the door is closed and I’ve had my DND sign up.
      -Coworker has entered my office z+a times when it is locked because he knows my PIN code.

      I’ve used clear signage, which everyone else respects. I’ve (now) told him on (date) that my DND sign needs to be respected and he may not use my PIN. And he’s continued on (day), (day), and (day). I need this to be addressed, as it is making me uncomfortable and I’m upset because the “visits” have caused interruptions in my work, on phone calls, on Zoom meetings, etc.

      I think it would be very interesting for the Coworker’s boss to know how much time he’s spending wandering around, especially in places he’s clearly not welcome.

      And while we don’t know what the industry is, if an office door locks and has PIN entry, we have to assume that there is some level of security that is necessary. That’s being breached which is not just a problem for the LW, but potentially for the company/companies.

  70. Sassafras*

    #2 This is such a bad hospital culture thing. I recommend you and your colleagues take your anger and energy to band together and unionize.

    Once you aren’t overworked and underappreciated to an absurd degree you’ll be able to see that retiring to another job is not a big deal.

    And before y’all come at me about speculation… this is a IYKYK situation.

  71. DD26*

    On my next birthday, I will be eligible for retirement using the Rule of 75 – my age + years of service will be over 75. I am considering retiring to take advantage of benefits, if we quit we don’t get our annual bonus, but if we retire we do. I fully intend to get another job smetime after this ‘retirement’ but not necessarily in the same field.

    1. Elspeth*

      My company has the same rule. I plan to retire when I hit the Rule of 75 as well, although that is still a little ways away for me.

  72. Skippy*

    I’m surprised that LW#4 and the rest of us aren’t taking a more “building on fire” attitude about this. Anyone read The Gift of Fear? A man repeatedly forcing himself into your office–which this guy is doing by using a PIN to open a locked door–is a huge red flag for personal safety.

    For the boss, who presumably thinks this guy is harmless, the fact that the PIN is in unauthorized hands broadly should be a liability concern. If it’s important enough that LW have a locking door, why is it not a concern that LW effectively can’t lock it? Knowing that this PIN is out there opens up the employer to loads of risk.

    1. Ms. Eleanous*

      LW 4
      You may need to embarrass the jerk (like yesterday’s yeller- Dave is so emotional).
      Talk to him like he is 4 years old, because he is acting like it.
      I haven’t thought of anything really seething to say, but I would start with
      the stop sign hand and saying firmly
      is-this-a-life-threatening-emergency? and keep asking until he answers.
      Take his elbow and escort him out.
      “And do not EVER open a locked door again. You are not a fire fighter.”
      He’ll be pi$$ed, but so what?

    2. HonorBox*

      While I’m assuming the guy is annoying and clueless, that’s just me making an assumption, but the LW may feel more physically unsafe, and if so should definitely escalate that with much more alarm.

      Also, and this is certainly not as serious, but if at any point LW was having a private meeting, phone call, Zoom and was interrupted, that should be immediately pointed out and escalated.

      The risk of data and security being compromised is something very serious for the employers (both, because it is two different companies) to weigh. The risk of a harassment claim is far greater. What if LW – whether male or female – was changing after a noon workout class? They have a right to privacy and someone taking unauthorized access to their office would be an easy lawsuit.

    3. Observer*

      I’m surprised that LW#4 and the rest of us aren’t taking a more “building on fire” attitude about this.

      A number of comments mentioned the possibility that this guy could be actually dangerous. Also, yes, a few of us noted that the boss has some *really* bad attitudes towards security and information security.

      Yes, this is a big mess.

    4. boof*

      If you read the gift of fear there’s a checklist for “dangers” and LW didn’t cite anything (such as actual threats, history of violence, etc) nor is LW saying they feel nervous about their safety – although if the reason LW4 is hesitant to say no because actually yes, they ARE afraid for their safety then they should absolutely have a much more serious and private discussion with their manager about that.

      1. Strive to Excel*

        Gift of Fear also points out that the checklists are a starting point and are not intended to limit people’s understanding The whole point of Gift of Fear is that sometimes your gut is picking up things that your brain hasn’t caught on to yet.

    5. Myrin*

      I mean, OP actually knows the guy so I’d assume she can at least somewhat reasonably gauge if he’s being creepy and lowkey threatening or just incredibly oblivious combined with extremely socially unaware or intentionally ignorant combined with really selfish or whatever else.

      “The Gift of Fear” is all about trusting your gut, which goes in both directions – sometimes people aren’t afraid even though an outsider with a different background and experiences might be, and that should be accepted, too.

  73. Not Helpful, But Anyway …*

    #1 Don’t know if someone has already suggested this, but: What if you sing it? “Hey, there, you with the stars in your eyes … ” ?
    Just checking.

  74. boof*

    OP4
    1) go ahead and ask them to stop – even though you know they’ll make a big production out of it at least possibly they will eventually stop or tone it down? Seems better to put up with that than just let it continue indefinitely. Also, make sure you dispassionately tell your and their manager about their shenanigans. “asked coworker to stop coming through my locked door with a do not disturb sign to interrupt me without any business need to do so. They are continuing to come by daily and enter my office and saying ‘I’M HERE BUT I’LL LEAVE YOU ALONE COME GET ME IF YOU STOP FEELING SO CRANKY’ (or whatever they’ll do to drag it out).” Also, I’d push hard on trying to get that PIN changed, that seems like another relatively easy intervention.

  75. 1-800-BrownCow*

    #2: We had a senior executive at my company pull a similar stunt. He announced his retirement (he was of retirement age), went through the whole farewell party, received a nice parting gift—something that only happens for actual retirees, not those leaving for another job—and cashed in on all the retirement-related benefits, including a payout for unused PTO and a sizable bonus.

    Then, barely a month later, he popped up on LinkedIn announcing that he just *couldn’t* do retirement and had accepted a new executive position elsewhere. This wasn’t some last-minute opportunity—this level of hiring involves a long search and extensive interviews. We later confirmed that he had planned all along to leave for this other job but wanted to milk every last benefit on his way out.

    To top it off, since leaving, he’s had the audacity to reach out to employees at my company, myself included, trying to drum up business for his new employer. When I mentioned the email I received from him to his former manager… well, let’s just say the response wasn’t exactly polite.

    1. New Jack Karyn*

      He cashed out his PTO and got a bonus? I don’t think that’s out of line for a long-term employee leaving. He received benefits that he had due to him. Not sure why it’s a ‘stunt’.

      1. 1-800-BrownCow*

        Company policy does not allow you to cash out unused PTO once you give notice of leave or if you’re let go. However, if you retire, you do get to cash out unused PTO. I don’t know if that’s typical or not, but in the 6 places I’ve worked in my career, which have been in the same industry, that’s been the norm.

        As for bonuses, our bonus program has a company-wide bonus, but then management and executive level can earn additional bonus based on their team’s performance in certain areas. You do get the management/exec level bonus you earned up to the date you leave but forfeit the company-wide bonus if you leave on your own or are let go. Again, the exception is retirement; they will pay you the company-wide bonus earned up through the month you retire.

        And nowhere in my comment did I say he was a ‘long-term employee’, not that it would matter. He was exec level but hadn’t been with the company long, only 4 or 5 years. Which in my experience, ~5 years out of say ~50 years of being working age, does not make one a “long-term” employee. Additionally, the company will give a nice gift ($$) and have a company-wide luncheon (paid for by the company) for someone retiring. But leaving for another job, even at the exec level, only gets you a card signed by whomever wants to sign it.

        I didn’t go into all the details explaining why it was a stunt in my original post, but I do know what I’m talking about. So yes, he pulled a ‘stunt’. He knew exactly what he was doing. One comment his manager said to me was that he probably pulled his stunt to help pay for his 4th divorce and the marriage to his mistress, I mean 5th wife.

  76. Sunflower*

    #2 I don’t know if this was already mentioned but if she’s in the US, she’ll get more monthly social security payments if she keeps working until 67. So maybe she took a job with less hours doing what she already knows to make it through the next two years.

    But no matter what the reason (part time job, easier job, more money), she deserves a farewell party after 30(!) years.

    1. doreen*

      Actually, it’s not whether you keep working until you are 67 – the extra years of work most likely won’t raise your benefit much, if at all. I know that because I stopped working at 58- but before I did I projected my SS benefits. Working the additional 9 years would have raised my benefit at 67 by a couple of hundred dollars a year. It’s waiting until you are 67 to collect the benefits that might make a big difference. If I collect at 62, my benefit will be reduced around 30% from what I would get at 67.

  77. Notmyusualname*

    LW#3 – as frustrating as it is, this scenario is probably necessary to keep claims moving at a reasonable pace at all. I know it seems that polite business practice is to respond to every email and voicemail. But you are one of probably hundreds of clients she is fielding.

    It seems small but even a small email that would be of any use to you would require her to stop working on other clients, look up your case to the last set of notes, write the email and send. Multiply that by several hundred clients a day and everything grinds to a halt.

    I had to politely tell a client that repeated calls and emails did not push her farther up the line, if anything it delayed her file because I have to pull it out of the queue to deal with her requests and it is a process to get it back into the queue at its original location, the system wants to move it to the end every time it is touched. I try not to let that happen by ignoring emails for “status updates”

    1. Librararian*

      Hah! I just below you gave slightly different advice based on my experience with adjusters. But I concede that you’re correct when the client is just asking for *status updates*, it’s a PITA to have to stop and answer. I more commonly run across the issue of “missed connections” where the insured is trying to get information to the adjuster/auditor and getting no response or the adjuster can’t get the client to respond. That’s where I just force the connection with going up the chain or peppering someone with daily reminders.

    2. Kevin Sours*

      It’s not just a status update though. The problem with voicemail or email is that there is no confirmation that the message was *received*. Coupled here with an inbox message that sounds a lot like you got misdirected to some rando who doesn’t deal with the public and no expected timeline you can understand after four days how somebody might start worrying that they didn’t get a response because the message got lost and nobody is actually handling things.

      I understand that responding to every email is tedious but you are overstating what is required here since it’s really just a “I got your message” which shouldn’t require looking up the case to the last set of notes. Closing the loop can be an important part of communication. People are a lot more patient if they know things are actually being worked on.

  78. Librararian*

    LW #3 (Insurance claim): I’m a Broker (work for the insured and deal with the insurance companies) and deal with a lot of adjusters and auditors that are third party contractors that have similar blank VM messages. All you can do is leave a vague message telling them to get back to you and if you don’t hear from them, call the main claim line for your carrier and ask that team for help. (I never leave PII or anything specific on a generic VM in case I dialed wrong.) Better yet, if you have a Broker, tell them and they’ll track down the adjuster.

    Many times I’ve had to call companies daily to get a claim taken care of on behalf of a client and sometimes it really does just take annoying them enough to put your claim into the next stage. Also as an aside, be careful about what words you use when reporting a claim because some words have very specific meanings in insurance (like Flood).

    Good luck!

  79. Notmyusualname*

    And sometimes plans do just change. My husband retired. Had a big retirement party. Then the company had issues and asked him to work part time just when the stock market took a dive. So he did. Then they said he couldn’t work part time so he went back to full time. He will probably retire again soon, but probably will not have another party.

  81. Statler von Waldorf*

    Looping back to yesterday’s letter, I can honestly say I’ve caught more grief for using “hey” in the workplace than using profanity. However, it appears that the times are a changing, and I am now old and out of touch. I don’t care, I still think hey is for horses and is far too informal to use as a greeting for your boss.

  82. Susannah*

    People retire all the time, then take post-retirement jobs elsewhere. They’re still retied from that company! If this worker was there for 30-plus years and retired (meaning also, eligible for retirement benefits negotiated with that company), then she’s retired! Of course she should get a retirement party – especially after spending several decades of her life there. My goodness, people get going-away parties for less.
    I honestly think it’s a little petty to get irritated about a retirement party for someone who a) is of retirement age, and b) spent so much time at that company.

  83. Susannah*

    Oh, I HATE “hey” – especially from people I don’t know! I get pitches from PR folks looking for me to write about/promote their client, and sometimes the subject line is “hey.” Or, the salutation is “hey.”
    Not only is it a little lame, but it’s awfully informal. When someone writes “hey” in the subject line – why zero indication 0f what the topic is – I am very tempted to delete it. I want to say 0- we do not have a relationship where you can email me, “hey,” and expect me to open the email and read it. Also – how old are you? Are you incapable of saying, Dear so-and-so?
    Now, saying “hey” to a colleague in the office – why not? No reason to stand on ceremony in person to someone you know. But boy, do i cringe when I see it in an email.

    1. Salty Caramel*

      If all I saw in the subject line was, “Hey…” I’d be sorely tempted to send it to cybersecurity as a suspected phish attempt. Some tones or greetings that feel “off” are an indicator of phishing.

  84. Nat20*

    #1: I think “hey” isn’t inappropriate on principle, it’s about who you’re talking to. I use “hey” all the time in emails and conversations with my students (college), close colleagues, and people I talk to a lot, but I’d never use it with someone in a much higher position at the school, or someone I don’t know or just met. So to me i’s weird that that person wants “all the staff at a tiny office” to not use it with her, but to each their own I guess.

    #4: I’d move the sign (if you can) to also cover the keypad, or use a sticky note if you can’t. Have the “knock it off” conversation too for sure, that’s more important! But it might help as yet another deterrent. Plus, if he has to *physically move* the Do Not Disturb sign to get in and he STILL does it, then you know there is definitely something beyond mere obliviousness going on with him.

  85. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

    LW #2-been there, done that as far as retirement.

    I retired / was virtually forced out at age 68. No pension, but when they started “Operation dump Anon-2” I then checked my books as far as investments, and what I was going to collect in Social Security, etc. and realized I didn’t have to work anymore.

    So I retired. Then I went to a professional conference to fulfill a commitment. And I was offered a job. Part time, what I wanted to do. So I was retired-but-not-retired, to the point where I’d go back to work if the conditions were right.

    And when I finally retired from THAT job, the phone rang again but I had signed a non-compete agreement and decided to honor it.

    Sometimes people “retire” but aren’t personally or professionally ready to retire. Don’t be offended if a retiree decides to keep working. Your company may not appreciate the employee’s worth , but someone else very well might

  86. Raida*

    4. Coworker keeps coming into my office and distracting me

    Tell your boss. Track one week’s interruptions and show them the stats. Tell them you need the PIN changed, of course, and ask if you should talk to Interrupting Dude yourself or if Boss wants to talk to his Boss directly to get this dude 1) back at work and 2) not interrupting your Boss’s staff.

    If your boss sucks, then just tell them to be ready for a complaint from Interrupting Dude, possible via his own boss, about you being “rude” for insisting he doesn’t interrupt your work day.

  87. RaginMiner*

    I had a manager who was pushed out by TPTB. She “retired” in order to have a more graceful exit and my team was happy to provide that in order to recognize her decades of service. As Alison said though, she was retirement aged and tenured. So, I can see why someone would want to retire rather than resign.

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