is it unreasonable for me to not plan my staff’s schedules around their dogs?

by Alison Green on February 25, 2025

A reader writes:

I supervise a small team of seasonal staff in a resort community. Most of my team lives a short drive or 10-minute walk down the road from our main office and compound. About two-thirds of the work we do is based out of various buildings in the resort town, all within about a five-block radius (short walking/cycling distance or a short drive, though nearby parking is at a premium on busy summer days), which are usually scheduled in half day chunks (morning shift in one location, then lunch, then swap to a different location a short distance away). We also have some duties that take staff 30-45 minutes’ drive away. (Think: collecting fees and talking to visitors in smaller outlying campgrounds.)

I don’t watch the clock when it comes to staff taking time moving between workstations in the town, because part of our role is to give out information so it’s common for staff to be stopped by visitors asking for directions, and some staff prefer walking versus cycling or driving, and we have a rough sense of how much time it takes to travel to do the duties outside of town and that driving time is accounted for in the staff schedule. We provide work vehicles and bicycles for getting around. Generally, staff have been very reasonable and don’t dilly-dally between workstations, especially for visitor-facing roles as they are scheduled to be in front of the public to provide a service at specific hours of the day. The schedule has worked well for the last five years or so — we’ve come up with a good balance of how much time it takes to get between workstations and making sure everyone gets their breaks while also having consistent opening hours for our public services.

We have unionized roles, so our collective agreement dictates that staff have two paid 15-minute breaks per day, plus a one half-hour unpaid lunch break. These are generally taken as three separate breaks in our work unit (morning coffee break, lunch, mid-afternoon break). In the public-facing duties where they’re staffing a building (like a visitor information center or campground kiosk), staff can step away for their short breaks with a sign on the desk if we can’t relieve them, but we always relieve them for their half hour lunch so there isn’t a long break in service. The expectation is that your half hour break is half an hour away from your workstation, not half an hour away plus “commute” time somewhere (which would make it a 45-50 minute lunch break, and against the collective agreement, plus a scheduling challenge for relieving other workstations for their own breaks).

Most staff have their lunches with them and eat at the staff picnic areas tucked in shady areas around town or in our small office kitchen if the weather is poor, but some staff who live in town prefer to go home for lunch. I’m fine with whatever they choose to do — that time’s their own — provided they’re back in time to resume work as scheduled.

My question is around dogs, and to what extent I as a supervisor should be scheduling around what my staff tell me are their needs. Some staff who live in town have dogs at home, and prefer to let them out at lunch to pee. This isn’t a problem 80% of the time, as they can get there and back and still have time for lunch within their half hour, when they are scheduled to work in town all day. The challenge has become that now that about half of my team have dogs, several staff have started to push back on me scheduling them for duties that take place outside of town, or on public-facing duties too close to lunchtime.

I haven’t had to worry about scheduling around the question of dogs before, because I generally consider staff taking care of dogs like taking care of dependent children, or other home duties like an appointment with a plumber that has to happen during the work day: not really something that is my primary role to solve. They have their collective agreement-mandated breaks, and we have different kinds of PTO for family-related care, personal leave, things like that, if they need to take time away from work.

There is some flexibility in the schedule and I say yes when I can, but I don’t have infinite flexibility and have to consider impacts on the work of other members of the team or impacts on the services we provide for the public. We have legitimate work reasons to have them spend the morning, afternoon, or whole day out in the field away from town, or public-facing duties at specific times right before and right after their lunch break. My staff do have a reasonable amount of warning. I usually set the schedule at least a month in advance, unless someone calls in sick and even then it’s usually modified duties based on what the staff members that are available are able to do.

Once, I scheduled a team training session on a topic that several people had been asking for more training on, and planned to bring in an external expert to deliver the training. The best place to do it was outside the public eye about 30 minutes’ drive from town, at a quiet scenic picnic spot. I gave them three weeks of warning that we’d be spending the day out there with the trainer I’d brought in, but three of my staff requested that they only take half the training because they needed to drive back to town to let their dogs out at lunch. When I pushed back a bit, asking if they could make alternate arrangements, such as a family member letting out their dog for this day so they could take the whole training, one of them even said I’m party to animal abuse (!!) because it’s unconscionable that the dog stays inside all day in their house without AC. These dog pee breaks keep coming up and I keep getting asked to change work schedules to accommodate them. I try to be flexible when I can be but I cannot always find alternatives that work for the dog owners without it being at the expense of work duties (for instance, having to close a building to the public) or giving a disproportionate number of certain kinds of shifts to the non-dog owners on the team. I also can’t go against the collective agreement when it comes to breaks by extending them.

I’ve never owned a dog myself, but I do love them, and I’ve lived in a house with a roommate who had dogs so I’m at least a little bit familiar with their needs. I’ve never encountered this issue before, and neither have any of the other supervisors of other teams I’ve asked who work on site (many of whom also have employees with dogs). What do other working people do when it comes to dog care during the day, if they are gone from home for eight hours plus commute time a day? How much should I reasonably be accounting for dog pee breaks in my staff schedule, particularly when accommodating their requests would impact our public offerings?

Yeah, this is not reasonable of your employees. They took the job understanding where the work was located and what the expectations were. Figuring out how to balance an eight-hour workday and half-hour lunch break with the rest of their lives is something most working people figure out on their own.

Generally people with dogs leave them at home during the work day, have someone stop in mid-day to care for them if the dog can’t be alone that whole time and they can’t easily get home on a break themselves (such as hiring a dog-walker), use doggy daycare if more care is needed, or find other solutions. They might occasionally have a dog-related emergency that they need to ask for additional flexibility from their job to accommodate — but that’s a rare thing that’s defined by its being out of the ordinary, not the routine, day-to-day care plan.

You absolutely should be flexible with people when you can without putting an unfair burden on the rest of the staff … but it sounds like you already try to do that.

The one thing in your letter where I’d maybe be more sympathetic to your staff’s stance is with the all-day training outside of town. If they took the job assuming they’d always be close enough to run home at some point during the day, I can see why they asked about ways to modify the plan. Even there, though, it’s generally understood that this sort of thing might come up at work from time to time — and accusing you of being party to animal abuse is way over the top, and says that they see figuring out their dog care as much more your problem than it should be!

It sounds like you need to sit down with the people who have been pushing on this and approach it as, “I want to be really clear about what the scheduling requirements of the job are, so you can make plans that work for you. This job provides everyone with two 15-minute breaks and a half-hour lunch break every day. Sometimes those breaks may come when you’re scheduled for duties outside of town. I understand that you prefer not to be scheduled for duties outside of town close to lunchtime, and I try to be flexible when it’s possible, but sometimes the job — and fairness to other staff — mean you’ll need to spend the morning, afternoon, or whole day away from town, or doing public-facing duties right before or after your break. I will always give you advance notice of your schedule so you can plan around it, but these are the requirements of the job because of the services we offer.”

Hell, you could add, “I understand some of us have commitments to animals, and it’s because I understand that commitment that I want to be sure we’re on the same page about the job’s requirements and what is and isn’t possible in our scheduling, so that you can make realistic plans for pet care.”

You might also try to head some of this off at the pass by being clear about the scheduling requirements when hiring people. Before anyone accepts the job, you could say, “We hire a lot of people who live nearby and are able to run home at breaks for pet care and so forth. I’ve learned to warn people that while that’s possible on many days, it’s not possible on all days because sometimes you’ll be scheduled further away from town.”

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{ 274 comments }

{ 274 comments… read them below }

  1. CommanderBanana*

    I have a dog. I love my dog beyond all reason. I have structured my life around this dog, and even I think your employees are being unreasonable. Accusing you of being complicit in animal abuse (seriously?) because they haven’t made the appropriate arrangements for the animals they own is really over the top.

    I have been known to be petty, and I’d be inclined to say they can take the flexibility I’m able to give and behave like adults who understand they’ve taken on a responsibility by getting a dog and make arrangements accordingly, or they can have no flexibility and their lives can get a lot more difficult.

    2. anonymouse*

      I will gladly arm-wrestle Commander Banana for which of us is more obsessed about structuring our life around the dog, and 100% agree, these employees are not reasonable. Your job should give you flexiblity without argument in a dog emergency. It can’t be expected to let you go home to walk the dog every single lunchtime without exception.

      1. Butterfly Counter*

        Thirded. I am obsessed with dogs, mine and everyone else’s. But where does it stop?

        I have a senior pup who never really “got” house training (poor guy was raised in a puppy mill) and pretty much needs to be let outside every 2 or 3 hours or I’m doing some cleaning when I get home. My commute is a half an hour. That’s completely unworkable.

        So I invest in belly bands (diapers for male dogs) and carpet cleaner. It works and I am happy and my little guy is a cheerful grumpy old man.

        1. CommanderBanana*

          Oh man, I’m in the same boat with my dog. She was never housetrained and I’ve really not had much success (she never learned to signal when she needs to go and she’s frankly completely disinterested in telling you) and she’s a senior now and that ship has sailed. We’re actually about to rip out our carpet and replace with hard flooring and she’s 75% the reason, haha.

          I work from home now and just let her out every time I get up, but I’ve accepted that I will just spend a lot of time cleaning up after her.

          1. Librarian of Things*

            Chat with your vet about your flooring. My senior guy struggled with “slippery floor syndrome,” which, when combined with hip dysplasia, made for a very uncomfortable boxer. We ended up buying Swedish throw rugs made out of recycled plastic that gave him traction on the kitchen floor and we waited to replace the carpet until after he was gone (so much carpet shampoo!).

            1. Gumby*

              One of my parents’ dogs would walk on the hardwood floors backwards because he’d sometimes slip otherwise. As amusing as it was to watch him walking backwards, they did place a series of small rugs / runners to create pathways between the sections of flooring that he was fine with. (The kitchen and dining room tile was ok, but living room/hallway hardwood floors were not, though the large area rug in the living room was ok. And the bedrooms had carpet.)

          2. Jellyfish Catcher*

            This worked for me. I trained my smallish new rescue dog to use pee pads.
            He was middle-aged, abused, caged for years so not house trained and wouldn’t indicate the need to go out.
            I waited until he and I were bonded and he trusted me, before trying this.

            Take the dog out frequently when you are home and bring dog treats.
            When the dog pees outside, say “pee” several times excitedly, go all out with praise, pets, give them aliiittle treat every time.
            This process took weeks, fyi.

            THEN…introduce pee pads wherever you want them to be – bathroom, etc.
            Put the leash on, one morning as if you and the dog are going outside for him to pee as he’s expecting to do so.
            Bring the dog into the location of the pads and tell them to pee.
            Mine looked horrified at first.
            I had to the leash on him, which helped him think it was ok.

            I keep saying “pee” and (15 min later)after the less was put on, as if he was sort of outside, he needed. He got his treat, lots of pets, and a celebration.

            It took a week or more, taking him in every time, with a reward. If I found pee already on the pad, I called him to the area, and we had a brief celebration and a treat.

            Note: he still has to to go outside to poop, and I’m not working full time, so it’s easier than being gone all day.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        I will lose because if I have a free arm, it’s holding the dog :D :D She’s in her blanket nest on my lap as I type this, because she’d surgically attach herself to me if she could.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      Absolutely!
      I would love to work at such a flexible place.
      Your employees sound spoiled and entitled, frankly.

    4. Snarkastic*

      Thank you. Precisely. It’s their job to manage their personal lives, not the manager’s! Accusing someone of animal abuse in this instance is so hyperbolic, I cannot fathom someone actually saying this.

    5. lanfy*

      I work for a flexible employer in a dog-friendly office; and I still didn’t get a dog. Because a dog will live for over ten years, and I can’t guarantee that my next job won’t be inflexible, or won’t want me in the office more.

      A pet isn’t a right. If you can’t guarantee that an animal can be properly cared for, you shouldn’t have one.

      (The cat I did get, on the other hand, is happy to sleep through my absences)

    6. Lenora Rose*

      Accusing them of animal abuse for asking the employee to schedule ONE DAY without the opportunity to let out the dog. I’m tempted to suggest that all the employees with dog issues pool their funds and pay one single dog-minder to run from house to house letting them all out for that day.

      2. KateM*

        I’d be tempted to tell the animal-abuse person that if she can’t guarantee her dog a normal life, she is the one who is abusing her dog, and I maybe should look into reporting her to authorities for that.
        (Inspired by our daycare whose headmistress, probably having had enough of people not paying their (very low) bills in time, warned that this counts as failing to take care of your child and she’ll be reporting those parents to CPS. I have no idea if she only threatened or had actually taken this course with some parents.)

      3. becca*

        I was going to suggest that the employees with dogs work together and see if they can share mid-shift dog duties sometimes (you let my dog out on Tuesday, I’ll let your dog out on Wednesday), but honestly this idea is better.

      4. Ace in the Hole*

        Exactly.

        I love my pets (cats, in my case). But I would not have adopted them if I didn’t have backup plans for their care on the rare occasions I can’t be around. Every pet owner I know has some sort of backup arrangement… a friend, neighbor, coworker, roommate, relative, or paid pet-sitter. I even have multiple safety nets just in case one doesn’t work out!

        If you genuinely can’t find someone to do a 10 min check on your animal for ONE DAY, even with three week’s notice (!!!), that’s a good sign you don’t have the resources to properly care for your pet.

    7. Laura*

      I agree! I have two large working breeds that need LOTS of exercise so my life basically revolves around them. That said, even when I didn’t have the flexibility to choose what job I had, I always figured out how to care for them while still maintaining my mandated schedule. Sometimes that meant eating lunch really fast during my second 15 minute break so I could give them a good 20 minute walk during my actual half hour lunch. Sometimes that meant paying a friend to stop by and give them some playtime. Sometimes that meant coordinating with my partner to see if their schedule could be adjusted.

      Especially given that the schedules are set at least two weeks in advance – that’s more than enough time to figure out schedule adjustments.

      1. Tazzy*

        I live in a camper at my dad’s house with my two cats. We have it insulated pretty well, but it needs some extra heat management on days where it’s less than 30F. I work from home every day except Wednesday, so if it’s cold those days I arrange for my brother to check on them during the day. That’s my problem to solve, not my boss!
        The only exception was the one day this year when it was 10F all day and I needed the extra heater on every two hours. My brother works nights and I don’t like leaving the cats unattended with my extra heater, so I asked to switch my office day. I do data entry so it wasn’t a big deal, but if my time mattered I could have arranged something else because I’m the one that chooses to have pets.

        1. Ace in the Hole*

          I think that’s a great example of the once-in-a-blue-moon requests for pet flexibility. Presumably you only need to do this one or two days a year at most.

          Another example is when my cat had a medical emergency, she needed a dose of medication every 6 hours round the clock while she recovered. I asked to take extra-long lunch breaks for a few days so I could get home to give her mid-day dose, since none of my usual pet-sitters were comfortable doing it.

    8. AlsoADHD*

      They seem extreme, but I understand the training day request. I get it’s tricky with the union agreement (possibly) but in any case when I was in a union job (used to teach K12 in a union area — in corporate now and work remotely with my pups as coworkers, very happy to be able to do so), we did usually get longer breaks if doing a training or in an unusual area. So I’m less sympathetic on the day to day but I think Alison hit on how that might be an exception (especially if people can’t use PTO and need the training).

    9. Freya*

      Yeah, when my mastiff was little and while old enough to be left alone most of the day (we slowly transitioned to being-left-alone-for-several-hours while I was still WFH due to Covid lockdowns because we knew lockdowns wouldn’t last forever) still needed his midday snacks, I used my lunch break to drive home (11 minutes), feed him, spend 2-5 minutes eating my own pre-prepared lunch, and then driving back to the office. He does not get AC because he has a doggy door and full access to the backyard and properly insulated house, and there’s fresh water both inside and out. The house never gets so hot without AC that it’s dangerous for him. We have a puppysitter, and if the puppysitter can’t take care of him when we’re away, we don’t go away. We have a first aid kit with mastiff-sized bandages in!

      BUT: he’s a middle-aged dog now, and he’s perfectly fine being fussed over when we get home, and sleeping 20+ hours a day. We don’t need to go home at lunchtime any more!

    10. Bookish*

      100% first thing I did when I got my dog was get a dog walker for the middle of the day.
      2nd thing I did was start job hunting so I can be at home more (still working on that part)
      Your employees are taking the Mickey

    11. Baunilha*

      Same.
      A few weeks ago my employer hosted a week of seminars and lectures, and during that time, my dogs were home alone for 12+ hours a day while I was working in these events. They were fine.
      I know it’s not an ideal situation and not every dog is the same, but if you really need to let your dogs out during lunch break, either take a job around that schedule, or pay someone to do it for you.

  2. AMH*

    I agree that the requests are too much, and feel for this manager. I live in a very seasonal community (including some high end resorts) and I wonder if the staff LW is managing is similar to the seasonal workers here — they tend to be younger or without a lot of work experience, and while they work incredibly hard it’s a bit more casual than a formal business job. It would make sense to have some boundary pushing and early job cluelessness, although of course that doesn’t change that the requests are too much.

    1. Mid*

      That was also my guess–a lot of people working in resort areas are younger and semi-transient (meaning a lot of them move seasonally to follow the work) and often living on-site or in employer housing, so the work/life boundaries get a little more blurred. I think being very upfront and having a clear, consistent policy will help. So, be less flexible and accommodating actually. Continue to give people their schedule in advance, and make it clear they need to figure out how to make it work on their own and within the constraints of the job. Obviously, continue to give some flexibility for emergency life things when appropriate, but dog care is not really that. It’s an expected part of dog ownership.

    2. Justin D*

      Well or sometimes they’re older and have lived most of their lives like this and can take or leave part-time jobs. Maybe they’re semi-retired or their spouse makes the main income.

      1. Starbuck*

        Yeah, it can also just be a small town casual thing. Everything is close by so popping in to wherever that’s normally only 5 minutes away seems like no big deal. Until it is!

  3. Amber Rose*

    LW, you might be too nice, or maybe too focused on being accommodating to the detriment of the need to manage. It seems like your employees are a little too comfortable being demanding over ridiculous things. And this is ridiculous. I can’t even imagine accusing my employer of condoning animal abuse for being told to do my job and then keeping my job, or at least walking away without a stern talking to.

    It’s absolutely not acceptable to speak to your manager like that over reasonable work requests, and that should be made clear along with all the other things Alison said.

    1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

      Seriously, more working, less whining from this crew. Most dogs are fine all day unless they’re puppies or very old. Wonder how the AC person thinks dogs in most of the world survive? Also, you moved your dog into a place with no AC so I guess you, as the owner, are the original animal abuser.
      My patience is vicariously tried.

      1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        Ha. Yeah, I looked at my husband and was like, “What do they think dogs did before AC was invented?” Also, as I think about it, unless they are taking the dog to a place with AC for the pee break, the dog still has no AC, so it’s still animal abuse.

      2. Starbuck*

        Even if they’re not fine alone during the day – and boss totally doesn’t have to try to convince employees of this and I think it would be pointless – hiring someone to let your dog out at lunch is TOTALLY REASONABLE. Especially since it seems it’s only occasional!

        1. Freya*

          In our area, you can not only hire people to do this, or take your pup to doggy daycare, but you can also hire someone to pick up and dispose of their poop for you.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      My guess is “no” because some of the duties are public-facing, and having dogs with the staff would be bad for members of the public who are allergic to dogs or afraid of dogs.

          1. Zephy*

            In fairness, most of those letters are from more conventional office-type workplaces, not semi-residential customer-facing service work.

      2. Sloanicota*

        Although I wondered about that one rare all-day training; I guess you could organize that somewhere dog-friendly and tell people if their dogs can behave, they can bring them. But you always run into the Dunning-Kruger affect where people don’t realize their dog can’t behave, and even one staff person who’s nervous/allergic can make this non-feasible. Also, flexibility is for reasonable people, and that “animal abuse” person doesn’t sound very reasonable.

        1. Happy meal with extra happy*

          That would be awful. There is no way a handful of dogs could be quiet enough for a whole day of training, especially in a park.

        2. Magpie*

          That sounds like a potential disaster. I could imagine the dog owners not paying full attention to the training or stepping away frequently because they’re keeping an eye on their dogs, and if multiple people bring their dogs there’s a high probability the dogs will be interacting with each other in ways that are distracting for everyone at the training. Seems like it’s practically a guarantee that the training will be interrupted at least a few times by dog related distractions which is not great when you’re hiring someone to conduct a training.

        3. WellRed*

          People have managed for ages to have dogs and be away from them for a day. This group is being a little precious.

    2. CityMouse*

      I’m a dog person but in general I find this to be a huge mess. Someone’s dog isn’t properly trained, certain dogs don’t get along, allergies, noise, etc.

      1. Happy meal with extra happy*

        Yeah, my dog would be miserable if I brought him to work, and that’s even assuming he’s the only dog there. He doesn’t like other dogs, so it would be a nightmare.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Mine would just get bored, honestly. If he’s home he either goes to day care or goes on a pack walk. Sitting next to me all day would not be stimulating for him. This could be an issue for a variety of dog temperaments.

          1. Sloanicota*

            I mean, let’s not pretend pet-friendly offices are a thing. I know we’ve debated it here (endlessly) before, so we don’t need to re-litigate whether it’s a good idea or not, but it’s undeniable that there are plenty of places that hold trainings and allow people to bring their pets, that seem to muddle on through the day … and outdoor meetings seem like one of the easiest scenarios for this, to me.

            2. Eldritch Office Worker*

              They absolutely are a thing. The point is more that “what if the job is suddenly dog friendly” isn’t necessarily an immediate solution to the problem, even if it were possible.

            3. Jennifer Strange*

              I don’t think a training (that is presumably being paid for by the company) is the time to try and implement a potential pet-friendly atmosphere, though. Even if there are no allergies, no dog phobias, and all of the dogs get along absolutely fine (a lot of ifs!) the dogs are going to want attention from their owners/other people while everyone is supposed to be getting trained.

              1. Overthinking OP Here*

                Yes, you are on the money. The nature of the training meant that the dogs would be a disruption, and staff needed to focus.

        2. Sleeve McQueen*

          I work in dog-friendly co-working space, and even though I have a very chill greyhound who is content to spend the day laying with his head under my chair even though he occasionally gets rolled on at home, I have to be very careful about when I take him to the office – and not just because he’s too big for some of the meeting rooms. He just wants to visit the dogs in the other offices he knows are there and doesn’t understand why he can’t and he wants to be where I am so that means I have to take him everywhere with me.

      2. Whale I Never*

        Also this is a resort, and LW hasn’t said specifically what kind of work the staff does. Some of them could be servers, bartenders, lifeguards, or leading activities like dance lessons, boating, tours to local attractions… not typically roles that are suitable to having dogs around!

        1. Overthinking OP Here*

          This is OP – I used “campgrounds” as a cover that had some similarities in terms of duties, but you are correct in terms of the diversity of activities my staff does, and how it wouldn’t be feasible, safe, or welcoming to all visitors if there was a dog present.

        2. Susie and Elaine Problem*

          Now I am picturing a dog bartender getting confused by human vs dog ages and serving minors. “They said they were 9, that’s like 45 in dog years!”

      3. CityMouse*

        My childhood dog had some weird phobias including shiny floors and elevators. She would absolutely have hated going to work with me.

    3. Liz the Snackbrarian*

      I love dogs but don’t necessarily want to be surrounded by them at work, as cute as it would be. I’m a touch fearful of dogs and the ones I’m willing to be close with are because I know the owners have worked hard to train them. So I feel like if someone has a poorly behaved dog things can get slippery.

      1. Dogs at Work*

        Ugh, I agree. I’m not a huge dog person, and recently switched jobs. New coworker has a “therapy” dog… in quotes because this dog doesn’t come to work when it’s too cold, too hot, or too wet outside, and it JUMPS on people! I sent a pic of the scratches on my arms to my boss. Now dog stays in the office and barks all day. I have doubts about whether it’s actually had training to be a therapy dog or if this is someone extending work-at-home perks to the workplace. It’s not my business, but it is annoying to be on edge all day.

      2. Wayward Sun*

        Dogs that don’t get along with other dogs are a real issue too, especially post-COVID when a lot of dogs haven’t been well-socialized. One restaurant I know of had to get rid of their dog-friendly patio policy because there were too many fights.

        1. Freya*

          And our mastiff IS well-socialised… but we still don’t take him to certain places, because he’s TOO friendly sometimes! (especially if there’s a choccy lab, who are his favourite breed of dog…) And if we take him out, we do so knowing that we will have to leave if he gets more excited than is acceptable. Also, we only take him to cafes when it’s a low-patronage time period, because his drool is a safety hazard in crowded spaces.

    4. MicroManagered*

      At a resort? Probably not. LW sounds like she’s thought very hard about as many ways to accommodate as possible. If allowing dogs at work were a viable option, I’m sure it’d be in the letter!!

    5. Alicent*

      I’m a veterinarian and even having personally owned dogs in my work places have been a mess. Some had unexpected aggression problems (thought my coworker was going to get bitten because she walked out of the bathroom and the normally easy going Golden decided something was Not Right and gave ALL the warning signs of a bite), others were extremely laid back, but wandered and ate out of the trash causing the owner to freak out that no one could put food wrappers in the garbage cans anymore, and others were just an incredible nuisance and the owner didn’t want to hear that their puppy parkouring off the office walls wasn’t cute.

    6. Tiny Dancer*

      I only mentioned dogs at work because OP mentioned campgrounds at least twice, and said the all day training was ideally at a picnic spot.
      Sounds pretty outdoor-sy

      I gave had jobs that let us combine our 2 breaks and half hour lunch. (for any reason or none).

      If lunch is unpaid anyway, could you offer an hour lunch that’s also unpaid?
      An hour lunch isn’t unreasonable.
      as opposed to the 20 min lunchpublic school teachers often get.

  5. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    This is right up there with the letter from this morning about people with kids expecting the one person without to take on all the crappy shifts.

    Look, its a job that allows you to pay for your pets needs. You need to figure it out. You chose to have a pet, its your responsibility not your employers to figure out care.

    1. AnonInCanada*

      Came here to say this as well. The similarities between this letter and OP #2’s from this morning bears mentioning, and the same advice applies: Figure it out, because it’s not your coworkers who should bear the brunt of your decision to have kids or get a dog so you don’t get inconvenienced.

    2. Carole from Accounts*

      Especially given the amount of warning, not unreasonable at all! They didn’t schedule the meeting on the day so the person couldn’t use their lunch break to let out their dog! Three weeks is enough time to make other accommodations for one day. Wow.

    3. CityMouse*

      Dog walking services and doggie daycares exist as well. This isn’t different from childcare. I have happily covered for a coworker who got called that his kid got sick at school and I’d happily cover for a coworker who had to take their dog to the vet unexpectedly. But routine normal care is on the employee.

      I am both a parent and have pets.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        And they can be pricey! Which I’m sympathetic to. My husband and I both work full time and we spend as much on dogcare as many of my coworkers spend on childcare (which is not a small amount in my area). But these are all things you need to be thinking about when taking a job, and getting a pet in the first place.

        1. Mid*

          Exactly! I love dogs, and I don’t have one, because I know I can’t make it work with my schedule, lifestyle, and budget. I wish I could! But I also like to travel and leave my house for extended periods of time and live in an apartment without a yard, so I can’t have a creature that needs to be let out in the middle of the day. That’s part of being a responsible pet owner–making sure your lifestyle and/or budget allows for reasonable care of the pet. I’m not saying everyone needs to be able to afford custom raw food and weekly dog manicures, but they do need to be able to pay for a dog walker to let their dog out in the middle of the day if their job doesn’t allow for a mid-day break. Especially since their schedules are known in advance, it’s not hard to hire someone on Rover/dog walking apps and get them scheduled. Around me, a 30 minute walk is around $20, though you can typically work out an arrangement for just a potty break, or if you’re a repeat customer and book directly with the walker instead of through an app, or if you’re close to several other clients. (For example, I charge $X for 1 dog at 1 house for a walk, and I charge $X+10 for two dogs at the same house. If you and a neighbor both want dogs walked, I’m okay with doing the two dog rate of $x+10 instead of $2x, since it’s so close together, which ends up being more affordable for both people, and I’m happy because I get more clients.)

          1. CityMouse*

            Yes, my parents were very firm on the “no dog until we can take care of it” rule. We had to wait until Dad was out of the military and we had stable housing and we had to practice and show we’d be responsible.

            I got a elderly cat when I was working my first job specifically because I wasn’t around enough for a dog or kitten.

          2. Bee*

            Yeah, I just got a dog last year because at 35 I was finally in a place where I could both afford his care and handle his schedule. And when it turned out he needed to go to daycare on my in-office days instead of just getting a mid-day walk, I took on some freelance work to afford it. It’s crazy to me that none of these people have a backup plan for emergencies – you need to have a dogwalker or dogsitter you trust even if you don’t use them every day!

            1. doreen*

              What’s crazy to me is that these people seem to have a normal workday (not 12 hour shifts or something like that) and live close enough to work to go home on a half hour lunch break ( so not long commutes) but apparently none of the dogs can be left for the whole day. I’ve known plenty of people with dogs and most don’t go home at lunch or hire dog walkers or use day care. In some cases, there are multiple people in the household and the time between the last one leaving and the first arriving home is not so long, while in others the dogs can go a full workday without a potty break and I’m sure some people use puppy pads for workdays.

        2. Beth*

          They can be, but it sounds like a lot of these workers could get away with having a dog walker come once or twice a week when their assigned duties make it hard for them to swing home themselves. Since they get their schedule a month in advance, that shouldn’t be too hard to coordinate, and would cut down a lot on costs vs a more frequent arrangement. It might mean they have to look harder for the right dog walker (as some might want a more regular schedule), but I’d bet there’s someone in town who’d be willing!

          1. Junior Dev*

            I wonder if the workers with dogs could take turns walking each other’s dogs on these days (they’d need to talk to each other about it, but the boss could suggest they do.)

        3. Ally McBeal*

          Yep. I adopted a cat 5 years ago and deliberately avoided knowing how much my pet sitter costs until this past holiday season. It simply doesn’t matter to me how much it costs (and I’m not made of money! I make less than $60k/year!) because my cat sitter is reliable, comes from a reputable agency, and treats my cat so well. My mom did ask about the cost over Xmas so I looked it up… turns out she charges $50/day and it’s worth every penny.

      2. Wilbur*

        With so many of the staff having dogs, it seems like they could potentially go in together on some kind of fix. I don’t know if that’s keeping the dogs at a different coworkers place on a rotating basis, hiring a dog walker together, or trying to negotiate a group rate on a doggy daycare. It’s definitely not OP’s job to fix that though.

    4. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      After reading the comments, I feel that this a trial run or maybe first step for OP.
      Maybe it will be easier to come up with an overall guideline if you include more factors. Which seems counterintuitive, I know. But…Don’t think of this as the dog rule/dog situation/dog owner issue.
      As the staff gets older, more established, this situation will reemerge or expand into child care and elder care. OP will be scheduling people with conflicting needs and priorities. Such a small community, people may walk their kids to school, may have to get lunch and throw a load of laundry in for grandma.
      Set expectations for flexibility and requirements with a big picture.

    5. Mockingjay*

      Yep. I posted a reply to that letter, but I’ll recap here. “The reality is that the job requires certain coverages and employees are hired with the expectation that they will work the hours required.”

      I have dogs. I had kids (grown now). It’s my responsibility to manage their needs while still meeting my job’s requirements, which includes travel, occasional OT, and working extended hours for certain projects.

    6. Hannah Lee*

      Agreed!

      I love dogs, and I would love to have a dog as a pet.
      But for the last 15 years, I have not had one … because I work full time, my job is a 30 minute drive from my home, and I don’t want to leave a dog cooped up all day or deal with the hassle, expense of arranging doggie day care or a dog walker.

      As the old PSA used to say “life is a series of choices” Getting a dog, or any pet, is a choice.

      These people chose to have dogs and they chose to take these jobs with the logistics, schedules, union rules that came with them. It’s up to them to figure it out, say the requests for flexibility for emergencies that they really can’t sort out and put the accusations and insults towards the OP away for never ever ever again.

  6. Pom Mom*

    My screen name sums up how much I LOVE dogs. I’ve volunteered with a pet food pantry for ten years and currently have four rescue pets. But these employees are way over the top in their demands.

    1. Yellow*

      Agree. It’s one thing if your dog had surery or a sudden illness. But if you haven’t figured out how to handle routine pet care, seems like that’s a YOU problem. Not your job’s problem.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Yeah, I love my dog, but this is the employees’ problem to solve. If your dog truly can’t go ~8 hours without a break, then you need to have a backup person to let your dog out on days you can’t get away for half an hour. This isn’t an emergency (e.g. dog is sick or recovering from surgery); this is just a normal work thing.

    3. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      yeah. Just before Covid I got a dog. Turns out he’s very anxious. I freelance from home. I have sometimes considered getting a job but if they say I have to work in the office then it’s a hard no, my dog won’t be happy.

    4. Paint N Drip*

      Pet lover here, currently housing 5 canine/feline pets. My husband and I (and before that, my housemates and I) determined the best way to handle our pet duties and give all fuzzy buddies their best life while we are going to school and/or work and having our own life too – my boss is not involved in that agreement at all, which I think is correct.

  7. CubeFarmer*

    I have the sense that this is a small town, so one wonders if the colleagues could assist each other when one has an “out of town” day.

    1. turquoisecow*

      Especially if a lot of the dog owners live near each other, which it sounds like they do. Bob needs to be at the distant location but Jane is nearby, maybe Jane can take Bob’s dog out while she takes her dog out?

    3. Burnt Out Librarian*

      That was my thought. Let the dog owners get together and figure it out, especially if they live nearby one another. This is not up to management to figure out, they’re all adults and can come up with a reasonable plan. Or pitch in together for a pet sitter to swing by on out-of-town days. Honestly, it sounds like the employees here have a really good thing going, and it’s silly that they’re getting hung up on this issue when there are some obvious solutions that don’t involve tons of schedule changes or abdication of their job requirements.

      1. jeyne*

        yeah, this is where i come down on it. the employees are already too comfortable making this op’s problem. the last thing op should be doing is trying to troubleshoot for them.

        1. Overthinking OP Here*

          Thank you! I’m trying to step back from offering too many solutions, because I think that there definitely are… but they aren’t my problem to solve.

          I’m also struggling with “needs” versus “wants” – of course it’s more pleasant for the dog if they have more outdoor time! Of course we’d all want longer breaks! But we have constraints in the workplace, to do the job we’re being paid to do. And the majority of the time, my staff do get to go home for lunch, which in my experience is extremely rare in a workplace that requires in-person presence onsite. It’s my duty as a supervisor to set the schedule to accomplish our team’s goals, and especially with enough notice I didn’t think it unreasonable for them to figure out what they needed to do to make it happen on their end?

          1. Anne of Green Gables*

            I do have a question about this part:
            “The expectation is that your half hour break is half an hour away from your workstation, not half an hour away plus “commute” time somewhere”

            I get that the half hour does not include commute to your own home, or even to the break room. But if location before lunch is 15 minutes from my location after lunch, is that time being factored in? I would be upset if I was expected to travel from one work location to another on my unpaid break. And I do wonder if having a full 30 minutes that is mine and not used to get from workplace A to workplace B would mean that staff would have time to go home and let the dog out. How this worked was unclear to me.

            1. Stipes*

              Well, in the case of the offsite training example, it sounds like they were in the same location both before and after lunch, and that wasn’t acceptable to some employees.

            2. Hlao-roo*

              The OP replied to someone else at 12:28pm with more details about that part of the letter. I’m copying/pasting here in case they don’t come back to this specific comment:

              Your unpaid lunch break 30 minutes away from your work. Travelling between work stations is considered work time, within reason, because you often get stopped by members of the public for work reasons. But since work provides places close by to take your breaks, you can’t take extra time to walk/drive in the opposite direction of work (home), in addition to your union mandated breaks. I don’t want to get into the habit of micromanaging travel work time (e.g., you have ten minutes to get from the visitor centre to the campground, no more) when it can vary by five or ten minutes, but staff who go home for lunch can’t take additional break time (that also makes the distance between their work stations longer) compared to those who take their breaks in the provided staff locations.

              Based on the above, the “commute” time in the letter referred to “commuting” from workstation to home on break time, not from workstation to workstation on break time.

    5. Kelly White*

      This was my thought too! Can they sort of band together to make sure all the dogs get their lunch time break?

  8. Sloanicota*

    The weird things is, it sounds like a lot of these doggy-owning staff live close together, so it shouldn’t be at all hard for them to organize to swap (in all but the full-day-all-staff situation). This is a solution for them to organize, on their own, because it’s not your problem. And I say that as someone who was obsessed with my dog and organized my whole life around his schedule.

    1. Aggretsuko*

      Yeah, maybe if they could bring dogs together to hang out at someone’s house so only one person has to run home for pee breaks?

    2. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      Going home, letting out your dog, coming back to work and eating during a half-hour lunch seems tight. Swapping so you’re taking out all of your coworkers’ dogs as well seems completely impossible?

      1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        yeah, even if they only live five minutes away, that’s all of 20 minutes at home. Unless they have something that just needs microwaving for two minutes, I don’t see how they have time to eat.

        1. ThatGirl*

          if the dog is literally just going out in the backyard I can see it – you stick something in the microwave, open the back door, eat, let the dog back in. But it’s quick for sure.

        2. Sashaa*

          You don’t have to have a full cooked meal – you could have a sandwich or salad already prepped in the fridge, go home and let your dog out, and eat your sandwich standing in the yard while your dog pees.

      2. Ally McBeal*

        Maybe not everyone works the same days? If one person regularly has (for example) Wednesdays off, they could cover those days.

  9. DogLover*

    Some dog owners are out of hand. The expectation that scheduling accommodations will be made for animal care on a regular basis unreasonable. I feel for this supervisor – this is some hugely entitled behavior.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah I would actually suggest a slightly stronger script than provided: “I want to make it clear that I don’t want to hear about pet conflicts when I’m scheduling folks. You all know the job requirements and it’s your responsibility, not mine, to find solutions that works for your pets.” I might say this kindly but firmly at an all-hands meeting. Then next time someone tries to push back with this, you can reference the announcement.

  10. dogmayormom*

    Separate from the dog situation, I wanted to ask about the 30 minute lunch taking place concurrently with the commute to an out of town work site. If it’s happening during the work day as a commute between two worksites, wouldn’t that commute be considered work time that is compensated, rather than part of their 30 minute unpaid lunch? So they should have their lunch (during which they could theoretically take care of their dog if they have one) and then commute to the other site. I hear what you’re saying about that making shift arrangements and cover more challenging, and it’s something that stood out to me as maybe not quite right.

    1. Mid*

      I think the letter was referencing that they get 30 minutes for lunch including time to run home/go to a restaurant/leave the site if they want to, so the 30 minutes needs to include driving home, but not commuting to work locations. Lunch starts when they stop working. Driving from a work site to a work site would be still working. Driving from the work site to home would be break.

    2. Lisa*

      I didn’t read it that the lunch break was concurrent with the drive, but rather that the work site was 30min away so there wasn’t enough time for someone with dogs to drive home and back during their lunch break. Your break is your time away from work total, not time-for-lunch plus time-to-drive-wherever.

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        You folks are correct. Your unpaid lunch break 30 minutes away from your work. Travelling between work stations is considered work time, within reason, because you often get stopped by members of the public for work reasons. But since work provides places close by to take your breaks, you can’t take extra time to walk/drive in the opposite direction of work (home), in addition to your union mandated breaks. I don’t want to get into the habit of micromanaging travel work time (e.g., you have ten minutes to get from the visitor centre to the campground, no more) when it can vary by five or ten minutes, but staff who go home for lunch can’t take additional break time (that also makes the distance between their work stations longer) compared to those who take their breaks in the provided staff locations.

  11. Whale I Never*

    Double yikes at the employee saying LW is party to animal abuse for forcing the dog to stay in the house without AC… assuming they live even just a 5-minute walk from work, on most days that would mean the dog gets a maximum of 30 minutes of fresh air, and still no AC no matter what!

    I don’t want to derail into questions about animal abuse in general–depending on the location, typical weather, conditions of the house, etc, this might still be fine–but imo it just emphasizes how unreasonable that particular employee is being. Either the temperature is abusive in an 8-hour day, and therefore 20-30 minutes of relief or less doesn’t make much of a difference, or the temperature is manageable in an 8-hour day. Either way, not on LW to solve.

    1. Mid*

      It sounds like that person probably shouldn’t have a dog at all, if their home is unsafe for an animal to stay in unsupervised all day due to the lack of AC.

      3. Snow Globe*

        I’m wondering if they usually leave the ac off in the morning when it’s cooler, then turn it on when they go home at lunch. If that’s the problem, there is an obvious solution.

        1. Clisby*

          It’s possible this resort is in an area where AC is typically not required unless you’re *really* heat sensitive.

      1. Clisby*

        I lived in Columbus, OH for almost 9 years with no AC, and it was fine. I didn’t have a pet there, but the temperature wouldn’t have been a deterrent. Granted, I lived in the upstairs of a Victorian house, so it was built to maximize air flow.

        1. Frieda*

          Our power was out (Great Plains/Midwest here) for six days last July after a storm, and my 100 yo house was 85 degrees or warmer. (Outside it was +/- 100 degrees.) It was bearable, but without electric fans it was pretty unpleasant. The poor cats stuck to the slightly cooler basement and of course we kept them as well-watered as possible.

          I would not live in my house if I couldn’t use a/c, and I’m not sure how people did before a/c was possible.

          1. AnReAr*

            I’ve thought of that often, as someone with bad heat sensitivity who grew up in and still lives in the southwest. I’ve come to terms with the fact that people like me just died young before electricity made fans possible, and still didn’t fully thrive year round until a/c was invented.

  12. Science KK*

    Alison is way nicer than I would’ve been! They knew all of this was a possibility when the took the job (at least is seems that way) if they can’t manage pet care then they shouldn’t have gotten a pet. I agree though, tell them this is the nature of the job, and since X amount of people are all asking the same thing you can’t accommodate outside of emergencies.

  13. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    The “animal abuse” person crossed a line. That’s a vile accusation and making up a lieto manipulate OP is disgusting.
    OP, I’m so impressed your reaction to this was to write to Alison instead of doing something that my user name indicates I would do.

    1. Zona the Great*

      I agree! And I’m not a manager because my honest reaction to being told something as terrible as this would be, “F*** you”.

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        Thanks for this. I believe that this person was lashing out for other reasons (I was addressing other performance concerns in that conversation), and I know that it was an exaggeration. (Other staff live in similar units with dogs, with and without AC, in our environment.) It’s just really hard to hear.

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Yeah. You don’t deserve it. You don’t call your staff names or say they do criminal things. So wrong. Hang in there.

  14. Not on board*

    I love my dog beyond all reason. She comes to work with me (small business – business to business where we don’t get pretty much any walk-ins) and has for nearly 14 years.

    These employees are bananapants. The manager has been flexible and their pushing would honestly make me less flexible. You have pets/kids/sick relative/whatever doesn’t entitle you to take advantage of other people. Sure, some flexibility and sympathy for certain situations is fine but if you’re grown up enough to have a job, you’re grown up enough to figure out your own arrangements without over-burdening your manager and/or other coworkers.

  15. Box of Rain*

    My entire life is structured around my dog, but even I wouldn’t do this. when a two day per week in-office requirement was mandated, I found alternate arrangements.

    Worth noting that my dog cannot attend dog daycare (fearful/reactive to other dogs) and also cannot be left home alone for more than 3-4 hours (separation anxiety/reactivity), so I did have to get creative. I take her to my in-laws for the day or ask my college student son to stay at our house with her. I also looked into sitting services like Rover.

  16. Judge Judy and Executioner*

    I have dogs and schedule someone to walk them if I have to be away from home during the day. For those in the US, I’ve had luck with the Rover app. I’ve found two fantastic dog walkers, one decent dog walker, and one lovely individual who can’t do walks but can come at lunchtime to feed them and let them out. I’ve used dog walkers for years; when I was in an office 5 days a week, they came daily.

    1. Insulindian Phasmid*

      Yep, I’m on Rover and it’s pretty easy to use. I have a standing once-a-week job while the dog’s mom has her in-office day and it’s about $25/walk. Not cheap if you have to do it a lot! Significantly less than child care.

      Rover is also super good about safety – before you book the job it only shows you a vague area of where the person is, so I don’t see the full address until you hire me officially. They also provide phone numbers for both sitter and client so you can communicate without actually giving the person your real number.

  17. Dawn*

    Unless they have a health issue, dogs can easily go 8 hours without a pee break. (Or without AC – what? Is it colder outside than in?) What do you think they do when you’re sleeping? It’s a bit precious of people to insist that this is necessary.

    1. Babbalou*

      My dogs have always been okay with going 8 hours or more without a pee break, but I think some smaller dogs (and sometimes older dogs) need to go out more frequently. One of my friends will shut her dog in the kitchen and put down a “pee pad” in the event the dog needs to go during her absence.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        True. I always bigger dogs and a whole work day at home was no problem. Now our smallest dog (not THAT small, a muscular 18#) can’t wait a whole day and we do use pads, which takes a bit of training (and is frankly not great for the environment)

        1. Daisy-dog*

          I had an old, sick dog before. We just started putting down an old towel in the spot where she most frequently had accidents. Just doused it in vinegar and threw it in the washer when we got home usually with the blanket that she slept on. (Now, both members of the household are adults who hang up our towels immediately after use, so it was never an opportunity to pee on anything other than the designated towel.)

  18. Jennifer Strange*

    one of them even said I’m party to animal abuse (!!) because it’s unconscionable that the dog stays inside all day in their house without AC

    I know this is only a small drop in this bananas smoothie, but why can’t the employee just turn on the AC if that’s a concern to them? Or if they’re worried about costs (or don’t have AC) turn on a fan or open a window?

    2. mreasy*

      Yeah like… you can just leave your AC on a low setting for your pets. Confirmed as that’s what we do. Blasting it for half an hour in the middle of the day doesn’t keep them from being affected by the heat, if that’s the goal.

      1. CityMouse*

        I mean I don’t turn off AC or heat when I’m out of town either A) to keep the house safe and B) because I have cats and plants.

    3. wendelenn*

      “Only a small drop in this bananas smoothie” has me laughing out loud! It needs to be added to our AAM Lexicon.

  19. HonorBox*

    I love my dogs. A LOT. And you know what? They are fine during the work day without someone having to run by and let them out halfway through. Suggesting that OP is party to animal abuse or animal cruelty is showing quite a bit of immaturity, in my mind. Everyone seemingly has enough notice with the schedule to make arrangements for those every now and again days when they can’t get home.

    I get that there’s a difference, but what if an employee’s spouse worked from home and every day the employee HAD to go home to prepare their spouse lunch (this is a real situation I’ve encountered in the wild I swear). While the dogs cannot let themselves out to pee and the spouse could prepare their own lunch, it does make me feel like the dog parents in this situation are similar to the person I know who had to run home. It was less about the spouse in that situation and more about there being a desire/need to control something about their schedule. Not suggesting that the dogs are an excuse, because clearly they’re getting something out of this, but it IS extremely likely that the dogs will be just fine if they’re not let out every single day at the exact same time.

    1. not nice, don't care*

      “control something about their schedule”

      Methinks this might be the crux of the matter. OP’s scheduling practice sounds like a nightmare.

      1. doreen*

        I think maybe when it’s written out without detail about the work it seems worse than it really is. I mean, if it’s something like in the morning, you give salsa lessons in Building A and after lunch you run bingo in Building B and on some days, you’ll be assigned to the information booth at the location 40 minutes away, it doesn’t seem so bad as long as you are given adequate notice. Not saying that sort of schedule is for everybody – but a lot of people would actually prefer that to “salsa lessons all day, every day, always at Building A”

        1. Overthinking OP Here*

          Doreen, you are extremely close in vibes to what the job is like, in terms of variety and type of work. I think I’d have riots if I suddenly assigned all of my staff to just one location doing one thing all day, every day, not to mention the lack of cross-training would make coverage for sick time/vacation time challenging.

      2. HonorBox*

        I was speaking more about the person having to run home to make lunch when I wrote that. Given the nature of the work (based on OP’s comments) it sounds like people know very well what they’re getting into.

      3. Leenie*

        Nah, the staff member calling OP an animal abuser sounds like a nightmare. OP sounds like a considerate person trying to make an intricate schedule work for a lot of people, and really doing a pretty good job of it. It’s not a job or a schedule that I would likely enjoy. But it sounds like it’s necessary for the nature of the work. And most importantly, it sounds like the schedule was conveyed to and understood by the employees before they started with this nonsense.

        And, even if you have a schedule that keeps you in the same location every day, going home daily for lunch isn’t something that a lot of people with jobs can do. Some can. I was able to do that myself for a brief period. But it’s hardly the norm.

    2. till Tuesday*

      If someone *had* to run home every day, no exception, – because even for one day they cannot hire or arrange someone to do the thing, then this is not the job for that person.

  20. GSP mama*

    Your employees are acting like the choice is either you work around their schedule, or their dogs suffer. Those are not the only two options. They, as dog owners, have other options. They can have a family member come over, hire a dog walker, or use a dog daycare. Or just get a dog door (they make them as sliding door inserts, in case anyone is a renter) if they have an outdoor space.

    I have a dog that can’t stay home by himself during the work day. He is the sweetest boy but he is a velcro breed (GSP) and I got him right before Covid, so he is used to someone being home all the time. Now that I have to work outside of the home part time, I have a dog walker, and on days when I will be gone all day, he goes to daycare. I would LOVE to have my work schedule work around him (in a perfect world, he would come to work with me), but that is not reasonable. Now “dog care” is a line item on my budget and I adjust the rest of my lifestyle around it.

    It sounds like what is going on with your employees isn’t an every day thing, and it’s not reasonable to expect them to find care for their dogs when needed.

    2. Always Tired*

      I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought “have none of these people heard of a dog door??” This is why I have a cat.

  21. Cain*

    “we have different kinds of PTO for family-related care, personal leave, things like that, if they need to take time away from work.”

    “I also can’t go against the collective agreement when it comes to breaks by extending them.”

    So let them use PTO to extend their break

    1. boof*

      I don’t think it’s reasonable to insist they never go offsite for a day if that’s part of regular duties sometimes, even if they use PTO every time.

    2. Whale I Never*

      Not all jobs are structured for PTO to be used that way. At mine, the system only allows for half-day or full-day increments. If the nature of the job allows for flexible hours without PTO, that’s fine, but LW has said this one doesn’t.

    3. Smurfette*

      >So let them use PTO to extend their break

      I don’t think they could take an hour of PTO and just show up an hour late for their afternoon shift. Certainly not on a regular basis. It probably needs to be taken in half-day increments.

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        Bingo – that would mean cancelling or shortening activities members of the public are paying for or closing facilities, or finding coverage from other team members. PTO is an option for them in emergencies or when planning ahead, but it doesn’t mean I don’t have to find coverage or rejig the whole schedule if they’re not available for their regularly scheduled shifts.

  22. Strive to Excel*

    I disagree about the take on the ‘out-of-town’ training part. It’s not even overnight – it’s one day *half an hour* from the main site. That barely qualifies as being out of town. Having people on a different location for one day, even once or twice a year, is a completely reasonable ask within the bounds of an ordinary job. Especially if transport is provided! I feel it’s not unreasonable to ask people to do that for *one* day, dogs or no dogs, and especially with three weeks warning. I’d have no sympathy for people unwilling to put in the bare minimum of planning around owning a dog as a working professional.

    1. doreen*

      It might not even be out of town , so much as “not in town” – there are places where there is a area of stores , restaurants and other businesses which is considered “town” and anything out of that area is “not in town” even if it’s politically in the same town or city.

    2. EA*

      Yes! OP, you can phrase this as “off site” but not “out of town”, which makes it sound like a big deal when it’s a VERY reasonable request, for which you provided plenty of notice.

      1. Properlike*

        Seriously, I’ve had longer daily commutes!

        It sounds like your dog-owning staff members are entitled and taking advantage of your accommodating nature, OP. Has anyone yet brought up the non-dog owners who are probably peeved that the dog owners get so much consideration?

        Personally, I’d be tempted to just call an end to it entirely. The schedule’s the schedule. You shouldn’t have to put in all this emotional labor.

  23. mango chiffon*

    I know that my opinions are unpopular, but I think dog owners have been getting out of hand lately and becoming entitled. If you are going to take on the responsibility of owning a dog, you need to train and provide for it, which means yes, you will probably have to spend more money to call someone to take your dog out during the day.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I realize it’s away from the point of the letter, but I truly do think there was a shift during covid. A lot of people got dogs and weren’t able to fully socialize them, and I say that as someone who adopted a “difficult” shelter doggie while I was going to be home all day – while I wouldn’t change that experience for anything, it was harder than I expected to re-integrate into society and he seemed to have ongoing issues with things like behaving at the vet despite all the work we put in. And now it seems like half my friends have “special needs dogs” who don’t like other dogs, have bad separation anxiety, etc etc. This does seem to represent a real change.

      1. mango chiffon*

        Honestly not sure if it is just socializing, but I think a lot of people got dogs in early covid/forced remote days because they were lonely, and didn’t put in the work for training. Too many “he’s friendly” comments while a dog is running at me or small children unleashed. I have been bitten by a “friendly” dog in the past, so maybe it’s just my dog wariness, but more lately I’ve seen a lot of dog owners with not well-trained dogs who give excuses.

        1. Sloanicota*

          Also, during covid dogs were hard to get for a while – shelters were empty! – and I wonder if a lot of more-difficult dogs ended up getting adopted out to first-time owners who maybe didn’t know what they were in for (I say, as someone who ended up this way, although ultimately I was so grateful my pooch came into my life).

        2. CommanderBanana*

          Yes, and the rescue and shelter where I volunteer has seen a tsunami of dogs being surrendered because the owner’s work situation changed.

          A dog is a years-long commitment. I know it’s impossible to predict what will happen and we can only plan for so much, but if your “plan” is to jettison your dog when it becomes less than perfectly convenient, you shouldn’t have gotten a dog in the first place.

        3. CommanderBanana*

          ^^ Yeah, this. I mean, my dog is not trained, at all, and she never will be, and I knew that when I adopted her and I’ve structured my life so that she is always safe.

          But I don’t try to force her into situations she can’t handle or will stress her out and my entire life is designed around this dog, and that was very intentional. If I couldn’t have handled a ‘difficult,’ anxious, clingy dog, I wouldn’t have adopted her.

      2. DC Cliche*

        Agree (as someone who got two velcro dogs) — also, I think a lot of those new dog owners (myself included) have a good expectation of costs, training, dog needs when none of them got properly socialized. I’ve paid way more than I ever could have imagined, and if you’re younger/budget is less flex, that’s really really tough.

        But I think there’s a broader … I guess disregulation …. from the rhythms that the world used to operate on? School, a 9-5, etc., were the “rocks” around which your schedules were built for so long, and that foundation got shaken. It’s been hard for people to click back into that schedule, trust others and institutions, etc.

      3. Ginger Baker*

        Weirdly it worked the opposite way for us: we had a rescue (toy poodle) who had SERIOUS separation anxiety and just trauma around a lot of things (for example, he was underweight by a lot which as a tiny dog to begin with is…saying something, and his nails were so long he couldn’t walk well) and pre-COVID would howl his adorable fool head off if he was not with someone (and ideally touching them) at ALL times. Quarantine comes and suddenly we are all in the house! All the time! He was constantly with someone! And…over the course of 2020, he felt safer and secure and started being able to be in the same room but not touching, and then alone for a short time, and then alone for hours! By choice!! (He had a favorite chair.) <3

    2. el l*

      Yeah, in this letter there doesn’t seem to be much of a “Let’s meet employer halfway, because things still have to get done” ethos.

      And perhaps it’s just social media, but I don’t see much recognition that – well, having a pet just doesn’t qualify you for all the same deference as having a human being. (I say this as someone with both dogs and human beings as dependents)

    3. CityMouse*

      I’ll also note that I’ve found places to be more dog friendly but simultaneously or consequently NOT kid friendly. People get more up in arms about accommodating dogs than they do kids and I do find it a bit weird.

      1. Sloanicota*

        There’s definitely a conflict in a lot of public spaces like patios/parks/breweries. And it plays into a lot of other social rifts of “family friendly” versus “your kids aren’t my be-all-end-all.” I think our goal should be multi-use everything but unfortunately that requires both well behaved/controlled kids *and* dogs, and right now we have neither in a lot of circumstances. Not sure what the solution is TBH.

        1. CityMouse*

          Very much dependent on the dog and the kid in question.

          I’ve had this whole rigamarole where a dog bit someone at my workplace (badly enough they needed to consult with a hand surgeon) and it became a whole messy thing.

        2. Sashaa*

          Yeah my kid doesn’t jump up at people, pee on other people’s belongings, or steal their food from the table then resource guard it. Several of my friends’ badly-trained dogs are doing some or all of those things every time we meet up.

          There are bad parents and bad dog owners, but most annoying kids aren’t being annoying at you, just being noisy or running around in the same space as you. Annoying dogs on the other hand, are usually in other people’s personal space and actively harassing them.

          1. CommanderBanana*

            My dog doesn’t scream curse words, grab and fling glasses, lie down in the middle of the floor at a packed brewery and scream, or yank an entire cake off a banquet table, but I have seen children do all of this at events.

    4. Yes And*

      Looking through the comments on this post, I see a lot of people agreeing that *these* dog owners are out of hand and entitled, and also agreeing with your take on the responsibilities of dog ownership.

      Yet you observe, “I know that my opinions are unpopular.” I haven’t searched and read your other interactions on this site, so I’m hypothesizing here. And I say this kindly and with the intent to help: Is it possible that you have experienced pushback on your comments on this site because you extrapolate from defensible positions about a specific letter to broad generalizations about groups of people (such as “I think dog owners have been getting out of hand lately and becoming entitled”)?

      1. mango chiffon*

        I’m saying this in a general sense of “unpopular” not related to this site, but out of experience of living in a large city with lots of dogs where people let them run around unleashed, or don’t pick up after their dogs, or bring their dogs into grocery stores who then proceed to make a mess, and any criticism of hey you’re not supposed to have unleashed dogs in this particular park/area has been met with dog owners trying to justify their actions or acting like I have to be okay with what is going on. I like dogs and dog owners who are responsible, but in my experience with dogs on a day to day basis, I am seeing more of the bad side than the good lately, which is a change over the past years.

      2. Youth*

        I’m deathly allergic to dogs, and you’d be surprised how many people I know who’ve defended their dog’s right to jump on me over my right to, you know, breathe.

      3. CityMouse*

        My kid went through a dog phobia phase as a toddler and a lot of people acted like it was an insult.

  24. BatManDan*

    OP is a party to the problem, for the simple reason that she’s been accommodating in the past. The employees have now come to expect it (one of the oddities of human nature; universal, and won’t ever change), and, naturally, want to see how far it extends. The challenge where ANY situation like this exists, is that it will take MUCH longer to extinguish it than if it had never been tolerated to start with. So, OP will have to hold the line for probably months or years before the expectations and resent fade away. But, better late than never.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, it sounds like perhaps this is a unique, perhaps more casual work environment. I don’t know if these employees are highly compensated and sometimes seasonal staff is hard to find – I mean, are they all going to be laid off in a few months? Sometimes special cultures develop in such situations. People thinking, “well, it’s not full-year and the pay’s not great but I love [being outdoors all day / the workplace flexibility / being able to work locally].” So OP may have to take things into account that wouldn’t be the case in a salaried office role, say. But all you can do is be clear about what the position does and doesn’t require, and be otherwise flexible.

    2. Whale I Never*

      I wouldn’t frame that as a problem on the LW’s part, though. It doesn’t sound like they HAVE been accommodating when it was a legitimate headache for them, just when it was possible. Now, as they’re having to hold the line on the impossible situations more frequently, they’re just asking advice on how to make that clearer to staff. It would be silly to say “you should never make accommodations, even reasonable ones, because eventually someone will be unreasonable.”

    3. fancy pants math girl*

      Nah, managers should be accommodating when they reasonably can be. Otherwise they’re martinets and nobody will want to work for them.

      OP’s employees may not understand that OP has been accommodating as much as possible, and that employees certainly can *ask*, but it is a request and no guarantee it will be granted every time.

    4. HonorBox*

      Being accommodating is fine. That’s awesome actually. But the employees have taken the accommodation and taken advantage of it. My boss is flexible and accommodating. I had to run to get lab work done this morning, in fact. He said he’d see me when I got here. But that doesn’t mean that everyone else gets to be late tomorrow because I got to today.

  25. Nat20*

    Yeah no, I’m a dog owner and the employees are being ridiculous. You gave them plenty of advance notice of an unusual day, and you give them as much flexibility as is reasonable and fair on normal days, and that’s all you need to do. If I had an all-day, out of town training coming up, I’d make arrangements for someone to come let my dog out once or twice, or more likely I’d put her in daycare for the day. That’s part of the normal expenses and logistics of owning dogs.

    You could see if your area has Rover or Wag!, which are both apps for finding walkers, and suggest them to the employees.

    1. jeyne*

      i feel like suggesting that is too likely to lead to longer conversations about why it doesn’t work and be taken as an invitation to continue to make op part of their dog care.

      1. Nat20*

        That’s fair. I was thinking of it more along the lines of “this is a personal thing that’s on you to sort out, but here’s a possible resource that may be useful to you”. But that could easily be seen as the OP trying to get involved as if they need to, which they don’t/shouldn’t. So I guess if OP chooses to give any suggestions, it would need to be done carefully to avoid that.

  26. DC Cliche*

    Love dogs, got two of them during the pandemic. Not sure it applies to this team, since the job sounds pretty in-person regardless, but I will say I was surprised by how much anxiety both I and the dogs had when I moved to an in-person job. But everyone made it through!

    I also have always found success when something is a CBA/CA rule to bring the conversation back to the collective nature of the agreement (as a mentor told me once when I was advocating for an unpopular collaborative workspace plan, it’s about workers’ rights, not worker’s rights), instead of negotiating with frame about their individual circumstances: Totally hear you! I know it’s frustrating. As a manager, I’m trying to keep an eye on what’s equitable and fairest to everyone per your collective agreement; I hope that you can understand. If you and your colleagues feel this framework no longer meets your needs, here are your next steps …

  27. Nomic*

    I dunno. If I *must* walk my dog daily, then being able to do so “most but not all” isn’t terribly helpful.

    1. ImOnlyHereForThePoetry*

      Nope
      Hiring a dog walker only occasionally is much less expensive than hiring one every day
      Or asking a friend/neighbor to do it occasionally is a much smaller ask than to have them do it every day

    2. ThisIsNotADuplicateComment*

      How is it not helpful? Knowing you’ll be able to walk your dog most but not all days tells you either a) this is not the job for you at all or b) you’ll need to occasionally hire a dog walker or get help from family/a friend/a neighbor.

      Providing relevant information is always helpful. Finding a solution to this is the employee’s obligation, not the LW’s.

    3. Nomic*

      I wish I could walk this comment back. Alas. It is giving the wrong impression. I was trying to make the point that if I have a special needs child, or dog, or parent, that having something most of the time, rather than guaranteed, may be a deal breaker. But that’s on the employee, not the OP. And I should have stated more clearly that these employees are being too demanding.

      My husband and I didn’t get a dog until we bought a house last year with a doggie door and a fenced yard. That allowed us to confidently integer our dog into our lives knowing that she doesn’t need constant attention during the day (even though most of the time one of us is WFH).

    4. Silver Robin*

      But why does the daily walk have to be at lunch time? I get that dogs have their schedules and whatnot, but part of the normal expectations around dog ownership (from my experience and what I see in the comment section) is that one trains the dog to be at home alone during work times and/or paying for the dog to be cared for in some way. This is the reality of having a pet!

  28. JMC*

    Make their lunches an hour and that would probably fix everything, because then they would have time and not have to rush. Half hour lunches are crazy anyway, they are never enough and you are forced to cram your food down your throat which is very bad for you.

    1. mreasy*

      OP indicated they aren’t allowed to extend the breaks due to the contract. 30 minutes isn’t long for lunch, but it’s common in service type settings where coverage is required.

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      That was my first thought, but LW says they have a collective-bargaining agreement that dictates the breaks. When it’s time to renogiate the contract, they should include the option for a 30-minute or 60-minute unpaid lunch.

      That might make scheduling a real hassle, though.

      1. Ms. Eleanous*

        Often, unions can make an adjustment at the request of the employee.
        As in It’s a Minimum 30 minute lunch.

        Unions aren’t as difficult as many people think.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      Disagree. Half hour lunch is fine to eat a lunch you brought into the office at a location near the office. For people who like this, an hour lunch means a longer work day start to stop.

      However I agree 30 minutes is barely enough time to buy lunch at a busy restaurant (even counter service) and not enough time to drive anywhere. A 30 minute lunch simply means you can’t really do that.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      A 30 min lunch means 30 minutes away from work … not 30 minutes eating plus extra commute time to/from wherever they want to eat lunch.

      Also the complainers are being unreasonable. As long as work conditions variable work locations and 30 min lunch was known upon hiring , they knew.

      Honestly most people I know who work outside of the home, leave their dogs home alone all day. Or they pay for doggy day care or a dog walker.

    5. Cake or Death*

      “Half hour lunches are crazy anyway, they are never enough and you are forced to cram your food down your throat which is very bad for you.”

      I’ve had half hour lunches for the past 20 years and I have never had to “cram food down my throat”. Like, what?

    7. doreen*

      I spent years with a 30 minute lunch. I never had to cram my food down my throat – I either brought my lunch with me, or at certain locations I could go down the block and get pizza or a salad or fast food. I didn’t have enough time to sit in a restaurant or even to buy food at some work locations – but an hour wouldn’t have been long enough either. Also, my union contract said I had to work 7.5 hours a day and taking a 60 minute lunch would have mean adding a half-hour to the beginning or end of my day.

    8. Bibliothecarial*

      Look, I’m a hungry hungry hippo who prefers longer lunches because my stomach is a black hole, so when I can’t take lunch longer than half an hour I find ways to make it work. I bring food that doesn’t need any prep and shovel it in. Half hour lunches are manageable for most of us.

    9. HonorBox*

      It seems like the major issues are coming from those who are working outside of the office during the day and can’t get back. Or are working in public-facing roles and can’t get home. Those who are in the office seem to be working it out just fine. Extending the lunch won’t do anything but cause more issue.

      1. JMC*

        I doubt that. It would be better if they could extend it. And frankly a half hour lunch is NOT long enough to really eat and chew thoroughly. Yes a lot of people DO end up having to cram food down their throat to be done in time. It’s not good.

        1. Yankees fans are awesome!*

          But they can’t per their contract. Also, others say a half hour is fine for them; as with anything, apparently, YMMV.

          I don’t get the insistence on moot points.

  30. Person from the Resume*

    A 30 min lunch means 30 minutes away from work … not 30 minutes eating plus extra commute time to/from wherever they want to eat lunch.

    Also the complainers are being unreasonable. As long as work conditions variable work locations and 30 min lunch was known upon hiring , they knew.

    Honestly most people I know who work outside of the home, leave their dogs home alone all day. Or they pay for doggy day care or a dog walker.

    1. Former Retail Lifer*

      Agreed. I don’t know anyone lucky enough to have such a brief commute to work that they can make it home and back during a lunch break.

  31. Dust Bunny*

    “Without a/c”

    So, either it’s too hot for the dog in the house or it’s not. If it’s too hot, then 10 minutes outside won’t help and the owner needs to get a window unit (I assume this is somewhere where central a/c is not common). Otherwise, four hours in the morning and four hours in the afternoon are also too long to be without a/c and the owner needs to find another accommodation for the dog during that time. But it’s not the OP’s job to fix this. It sounds like this workplace is as reasonable and flexible as it can be while still making sure they have the coverage they need.

    1. Overthinking OP Here*

      Thank you for this. The reason I included the “(!!)” at that point in my letter to Allison was because I knew that that was an outrageous thing to say to me at the time, but I was so shocked in the moment that I didn’t know how to respond. The staff member who said that to me had other performance issues which were being addressed, so I think that they were lashing out at me verbally as a way to put the onus on me to change the schedule, because it was fully within my authority to make the schedule like that.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        “other performance issues”

        Ah, not surprising.

        I have cats but also live with my mother’s nervous, clingy dog. My parents are retired and home most of the time, but sometimes she still just has to go to daycare for the day so we can get a break and she can burn some energy.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        That’s definitely what it sounds like, and honestly, I would be inclined to circle back to this person and make sure they understood how very, very serious their accusation is and how incredibly inappropriate it was.

  32. Michigander*

    I have a dog who was still a puppy when Covid hit, and as a result got very used to at least one person always being at home, and is consequently still not happy about being left home alone. And even I think your employees are being unreasonable. It’s their job to figure out how to care for their pets, not yours.

  33. Overthinking OP Here*

    Hello everyone! OP here. Thank you so much for the comments so far! I really appreciate the reality check, because my staff definitely made me feel like I was the unreasonable one (who cares nothing for doggy welfare). I do try to offer what flexibility we can within the confines of work operations and the collective agreement, which is why it’s hurtful and also aggravating when these boundaries are pushed in a way that impacts the whole team and the work that we do.

    For those of you who think that this is a more casual work environment, yes, to a certain extent it is. Usually a combo of summer student staff and semi-retirees who want to spend a summer in a beautiful nature spot. The staff with dogs all live on the same block in town (two of them are literally next door neighbours), and some of them are good friends, while others are cordial at work but choose not to hang out outside of it. I do think it’s feasible for them to coordinate amongst themselves to help out if needed.

    I think that one challenge has been when I accommodated one or two requests once from one person who had a dog and didn’t have help at home in an emergency, the other dog owners took notice and they compared notes with each other. What may be straightforward to accommodate once or twice in an emergency for one person who had few alternatives isn’t possible to do for three people, regularly, as standard operating procedure. Especially because I know that one of the dog owners has a retired spouse who lives at home – but is it my place to ask why they can’t have them let the dog out?

    One of my struggles with this is: to what extent is this my problem to solve? And it seems like the answer is it shouldn’t be, but my staff are treating it as if it’s on me and not on them to resolve.

    1. toolegittoresign*

      Ah, this is good information. I think it’s important to help your staff understand the difference between what you consider to be a pet care emergency and what isn’t. If it’s within the owner’s control to plan for, that is not an emergency. They can arrange for a walker. If the walker DID call one day to say they were sick and couldn’t walk the dog that particular day — then that’s an emergency outside if the owner’s control. Compare it to a vet visit. If their pet needed routine care, they would schedule a vet visit and check their work schedule accordingly. It wouldn’t be appropriate to call out of work day-of for a pre-planned vet visit. If their pet needed urgent care, then that’s an emergency and it would be understandable to need to call out of work to address.

      1. boof*

        This is good – be very clear that an “emergency” is something unexpected/unplanned, like a sudden serious injury/illness, or coverage falling through last moment – not “this was scheduled 3 weeks off and I didn’t want to make any other arrangements”

        1. toolegittoresign*

          exactly — It’s the same situation as for people with kids. There are the genuine emergencies and then there’s just poor planning. And saying “it would be the same if you had human children” can really drive the point home.

      2. Ms. Eleanous*

        I hope people realize that dog walkers are not cheap. $30 a day might be a big amount for what sounds like a low paid entry level job.

        I still think employees can and should work it out (or be given a list of choices).
        Kudos to OP for talking such a personal interest.

    2. Glengarry Glenn Close*

      If they’re seasonal summer workers who are students, this makes a little more sense. They probably care about their dogs far more than this job (no offense, just thinking how I was at that age)

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Yes I think this detail is important. This is a transient staff who probably aren’t prioritizing work the same way full time, traditional working age employees may be. That gives them a little more leverage to be unreasonable – not because it’s right, but because they might not be that concerned about losing the job. That’s a TOUGH position to be in as a manager, OP. But know that you’re still in the right, and you still get to push back.

      2. Ally McBeal*

        Agree – and LW has a great opportunity here to teach them about professional norms, even in a relatively casual work environment like the one they describe. Other employers will not be as generous as LW has been, others will be more generous, but hopefully a little guidance will go a long way with these early-career folks.

    3. Elle*

      I’ve been put in this situation and its coming up in my org more and more. It’s not your issue to help them. You accommodated someone a couple of times in an unusual circumstance and each situation is different. If they can’t do the hours expected on a daily basis then this is not the place for them. You can explain how to go about applying for an accommodation and direct them to HR (if you have it).

    4. Jennifer Strange*

      hen I accommodated one or two requests once from one person who had a dog and didn’t have help at home in an emergency, the other dog owners took notice and they compared notes with each other.

      So they’re basically cutting off their nose to spite their face, because in most places the response to this wouldn’t be “Okay, since I had flexibility for these one-off emergency situations I’m going to give everyone maximum flexibility” it would be “Well, since you complained about giving flexibility to some folks in emergency situations, we’re just not giving flexibility anymore.”

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        The more I get pushback the more this is my knee-jerk reaction (to provide less flexibility, not more), so I want to check myself. I always strive to be reasonable, but it’s hard to be reasonable in the face of “requests” like this.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          No, it’s entirely reasonable to accommodate one-off or temporary pet situations but not make them SOP.

          One of my coworkers has an elderly dog with serious heart trouble. There have been a few instances where she needed to take him to the vet at the last minute, but since 99% of the time the midday dog sitter can handle it, it’s not routine for her to rush home for an early lunch and nobody cares if she has to do it once in awhile.

    5. Bad Janet*

      I think you need to have a sit down with your whole team and list out that, while you can accommodate for emergencies regarding care of pets/kids/other dependents now and then, you cannot plan work schedules around regular care. And then stop catering to staff requests unless they have true emergencies. Tell the people who push back on the all day training that it is a job requirement, you gave them plenty of notice, and they need to figure out options for pet care.

      I love pets and would of course want to help someone with a true emergency, but their complaints are ridiculous. I have a coworker who plans her lunch around getting home to take her dog out, and we have all day trainings/meetings twice a year. She makes arrangements with a family member or pet sitter for those days and doesn’t complain because it’s a normal thing to have occasional work responsibilities pop up. Backup for pet care is very normal. For my cat, I have my roommate, then my mom, then my aunt, and at least two friends to call on if something kept me away from home unexpectedly.

    6. HonorBox*

      Most definitely this is not your problem to solve. I read your comment above, too, about a knee-jerk reaction and I might suggest that when you talk to your staff (which you need to) you highlight where you’re at. Let them know that if boundary pushing continues, or if you’re ever accused of animal abuse again, the flexibility you’ve shown for people caring for their animals will be out the door.

  34. birdloverextreme*

    Upon rereading this I saw this:

    Once, I scheduled a team training session on a topic that several people had been asking for more training on, and planned to bring in an external expert to deliver the training.

    So people asked for the training and other people, presumably, are kiboshing it because of dogs? I would be so annoyed.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I expect some of the people who asked for it and some of the people doing the kiboshing are one and the same.

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        You would be correct. One of the dog owners was indeed one of the people who’d requested the training last year. Which made it all the more baffling to me that they’d then prioritize their dog and ask to have the training they asked for cut short, or asked if they HAD to attend it? It definitely made me feel like I couldn’t win, as a supervisor.

        1. HonorBox*

          Just a friendly suggestion, OP: Reframe this. You don’t need to win in a conversation with your employee(s). You’re the supervisor and you need to ensure the work is being done by the team. That’s the win.

          This isn’t a situation in which you sprung a two-hour end of the day meeting on people and took them away from responsibilities. You’re providing them ample opportunity to schedule themselves and schedule for their dogs.

  35. Zephyr*

    Yeah, your employees are being unreasonable and I agree with everything Alison said. However, is it possible that you are treating people with dogs vs kids differently? Are giving more leeway to employees with kids vs dogs and those with dogs are reacting to that?
    I understand both sides but many people think of their dogs as kids, e.g. “pet parent”. Food for thought.

    1. boof*

      uhg no, caregiving roles are really not that interchangable and everyone’s going to be upset if you start comparing pets and children and/or other dependent status

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        The OP seems to be equating pet care with other “household responsibilities” though, which is reasonable.

      2. Overthinking OP Here*

        I can tell you that on my team, everyone is either childless or has adult children who no longer require care (often university students or semi-retirees, for this kind of entry level seasonal work). Most are living here only for the peak spring/summer season, and so don’t tend to be the primary caregivers of elderly relations or other family members either, because this place is remote enough from bigger cities that if someone needed more intensive care they couldn’t get it here without driving for more than an hour.

        There are other teams on site who have employees with children, but they arrange for daycare/nannies/family members / school busses and as far as I am aware from other supervisors, it isn’t an issue to work their full shifts on site.

        Our collective agreement also has specific PTO provisions for (human) family related care (not just childcare), but not for pet care.

        1. PegS*

          OP, thanks for the clarification. This was the sense I got. If it’s a seasonal job in a resort town, they may not be relying on this job necessarily to pay mortgages, feed children, etc. I was thinking of it more along the lines of the same issues we’ve been dealing with recruiting for my volunteer job post-pandemic. To the volunteers it’s optional, so many of them are just not taking the commitment seriously.

    2. HannahS*

      Unless you’d compare any other marginalized group to a dog, you shouldn’t be comparing children to dogs. Taking care of a pet is a responsibility, and taking care of a child or disabled family member is also a responsibility, but they are not equivalent.

    3. Starbuck*

      “Are giving more leeway to employees with kids vs dogs and those with dogs are reacting to that?”

      Except that would be extremely reasonable. Even I, as someone without children who prefers pets to babies, understands that the needs of a child are greater and more important to be accommodated in the workplace than those of a dog. For one it’s obvious how different the situations are because the dogs are already home alone for most of the day. It’s a different situation, it’s ok to treat it differently.

    4. An Adoptee's Perspective*

      Oof, I have to say, comparing dogs with children is kind of a sore spot for me, and to provide a perspective of why some people consider it offensive, I am a transracial adoptee and already struggle with feelings of being of lesser value to my (adoptive) family due to not being biologically related, mostly due to societal tendencies (being told my adoptive family is not my “real” family, people speaking of adoption as a last resort only if they can’t have “their own” children, etc.).
      I do understand that people love their pets and do consider them an important part of their family. That being said, being equated with an animal, even a beloved animal, makes me feel dehumanized (this happens, for instance, with some of the language around adoption that pet owners have started to use, such as “gotcha day” which I first heard of as the anniversary that a child got adopted but now see people using for their pets – I don’t want to police language but I do find it hurtful). All of this to say, I wish more people were aware of this kind of perspective when making dog to human comparisons.

      1. HannahS*

        YES THANK YOU. I think (I hope!) that generally well-meaning people understand that it’s dehumanizing to compare people to animals, and especially so when they’re marginalized. But most people are not accustomed to understanding children as a marginalized population. But they are, by most definitions of what it means to be marginalized.

  36. Anon in Midwest*

    The employees are being so unreasonable. I agree strongly with Alison’s advice because you need to make it clear to them that work is what it is, and it already sounds like a very enjoyable and flexible job. better than many.

    I have worked for a decade and have had a dog for 7 years. When I worked at an office 15 minutes away from home, I hired a dog walker to come at lunch. It wasn’t hard or too expensive. Even if I believed I could drive home, let him out, and come back, I knew that would be disruptive to the potential ad hoc meetings or discussions that arise at work which I need to be present for.

  37. Mary*

    I have faced this problem, and I have a technical solution. I guess I’ll share a link and hope it gets through the moderation process: https://www.hitecpet.com/petdoors.html

    Those are doggy doors that only open in response to a signal from a device on your dogs collar. So it’s not just open all day, letting out the air conditioning and the other pets, and letting in squirrels or burglars. It opens for your dog and no one else.

    I installed on of these in my basement sliding glass door (also something normal doggy doors can’t do), and used some cheap “play pen” type fencing to enclose both a small area inside that door and the area outside it.

    I’m at work right now, and my dog is in “his area.” He can go out through the doggy door at will when he needs to pee, and then come back inside and snuggle on his doggy bed in the climate controlled environment.

    It’s a pretty darn economical solution compared to doggy daycare or a paid dog walker. And it’s worked for us. So I guess I think it’s worth sharing for others who might have this same problem.

  38. Cat Lady*

    This is over the top entitlement. Make arrangements for pet care if you need it. And seriously, why is it always the dog people who act like this? If I said I had to go home every day because my cat gets lonely, which he does, I would be called a Crazy Cat Lady. But somehow it’s supposed to be ok when dog owners do it?

    1. PayRaven*

      I think the brunt of the comments here are that it’s not okay for dog owners either, honestly. x)

      1. Starbuck*

        True but in my experience this is a level of audacity in the requests that you just don’t see for cat care.

        It makes sense – hardly anybody litter trains their dogs so the bathroom needs are logistically different – but this kind of thing of needing to regularly go home midday to deal with a pet seems pretty unique to dog owners.

        Luckily, there’s an easy solution – it’s hiring a dog walker.

  40. The Other Evil HR Lady*

    Maybe this has been said, but once you make that kind of accommodation for someone who’s part of a union, it becomes precedent. The last thing you want to do is set precedent around pet or child care. So, first, stop accommodating anything but the emergencies. Their CBA says two 15-minute breaks and one half-hour lunch, therefore that’s all they get outside of an emergency or using their annual leave for pre-planned, approved time off. It sounds mean, but that’s the agreement between their union and your employer. If someone takes issue, they’ll have to take it up with their union rep, not you.

  41. PayRaven*

    The thing that stands out to me is that everyone was apparently doing fine with the job and their pets until one or two people started speaking up about it, and maybe getting some flexibility for it, and then more and more people started noticing and now it’s an absolute necessity. Wonder what’s up with that.

  42. Random Biter*

    While it’s not the way I *want* it to be, my girl is home for a lot of hours during the day. While she usually doesn’t have any issues, I do put pee pads by the back door in case she just can’t wait. Not the paper ones you can get at pet supply stores, these are large, lightly quilted cloth pads with a waterproof backing so they can be run through the washer (or scrubbed in the back yard).

  43. Statler von Waldorf*

    I disagree with the advice given. If one of my employees accused me of being party to animal abuse, I’d fire them on the spot.

    Yes, I saw there is a collective agreement. I’ve fired union employees before. It’s never as hard as the anti-union propaganda makes it out to be.

    1. Librarian of Things*

      And even if you don’t want to fire them this season, I’d sure think twice about hiring them back next season.

  44. NotARealManager*

    My dog stays at home by himself during the work day. He did not like it at first, but he got used to it, because he is a dog. He’s getting a little older now, so I foresee a possibility where he’ll need some mid-day care in a couple years, but that’s on me to solve, not my employer.

  45. Coffee please*

    I agree this is unreasonable for employees. I have two small children and their schedules aren’t even like this. My husband and I both work outside the house full time. There are services like Rover you can hire to mid-day potty breaks. I have a small dog and we generally leave him in our shady backyard (we live in California) during the day but when the weather is bad, he is crate trained and can hold it until we come home.

  46. Momma Bear*

    You could sub dogs for kids or going to the gym or anything else that someone might want to leave the office for. I have been fortunate to have hybrid jobs but the expectation has always been that I will be on-site/with a client as needed. If I flex for that, I get to keep my WFH. I don’t, and they may decide I need to be in an office 5 days a week. LW may need to clarify expectations for these roles, but I think the employees also need to realize that this is a perk, not a requirement. They got notice about the offsite. They should have planned accordingly.

  47. Former Retail Lifer*

    In the before times, before my husband worked from home, we had two dogs, 9 hour shifts + the commute, and no option to come home during lunch. We made it work with pee pads and an occasional visit from a dog walker/sitter or a friend let them out. My younger dog does not like strange dogs or doggie daycare would have also been an option.

    Lots of people have dogs. Most of us can’t make it home and back during a lunch break. And yet, our dogs are doing just fine!

  48. Skytext*

    So am I the only one who thinks these dog-owning employees are also fudging their lunch and extending it to more than 30 minutes? Because if they could truly get home, let their dog out, grab a bite to eat, and make it back in exactly 30 minutes, then why would it matter if they had coverage-based, public-facing roles directly before and after lunch? It wouldn’t! But they KNOW they can’t make it back that fast, and will get caught out by the person waiting to be relieved or the public wondering where the employee is.

  49. Kathy (not Marian) the Librarian*

    I love dogs but these requests are absurd.

    They gave three weeks advanced notice for the all day training. That’s plenty of time to set something up! What if the person went to an out-of-town one-day conference. We wouldn’t expect them to come home to walk the dog. They would have made prior arrangements.

    If there is a need for several people to have their dog walked, maybe they can all hire the same person and get a discount rate? The more the yappier!

  50. Librarian of Things*

    In my head, this is someplace like Bangor, Maine, with a town center surrounded by lovely yet seasonal recreation. Surely the seasonal employees also know each outside of work in such a place. Perhaps they (the employees, not the boss) could go in together so that whichever dog owner is working closest can go give some walksies to the dog owner working furthest away, who would reciprocate when they’re working in town again. Or, as Kathy the Librarian suggested, jointly hire a dog walker.

  51. Pam Schrute-Beesley*

    I’m surprised this isn’t dealt with in the collective agreement. For mine, this would be travel status outside of the HQ region- no overnight stay.

    Of course, if it isn’t covered, as unionized employers are always happy to point out, you get exactly what you negotiated and nothing more. I guess tell the employees to better negotiate at the next round?

    1. MicroManagered*

      I was also surprised this wasn’t mentioned. Assuming it’s not a problem to do this (my direct reports aren’t unionized so I’m just talking) I’d probably even encourage it, saying “look this is what I can do right now… if you want to change it, work back through your union so they can help untie my hands!”

      1. Overthinking OP Here*

        It wouldn’t be considered travel status in our collective agreement. I used the phrase “out of town” in the letter because it’s outside of the resort town where we do the majority of our work, down the road, but the picnic area where the training was held is still on land owned by our organization (think, picnic area for the general public next to a campground). We have some satellite locations where we provide services. I chose that place because it was less busy than areas in-town (less of a chance of the public interrupting us) and it was still owned by our organization, plus had certain amenities (washrooms, picnic tables).

    2. Leenie*

      It would really surprise me if the training was considered out of region. It’s a 30 minute drive, which seems to be within their normally expected travel distance, since there are apparently a variety of work sites within a relatively small area.

  52. A Cita*

    I have a pup that needs a lot of attention, shouldn’t be alone for too long, but I’ve been WFH since 2011 and that’s not about to change. Should it change, I would have a walker come every day, which yes, would be expensive, and I would have to make other large-scale sacrifices in my budget to accommodate that, but I knew that ahead of time. It’s not ideal, but it can work. One suggestion is that walkers tend to give a discount for multiple dogs per household and maybe nearby coworkers could have one house the walker picks them up at to share the cost?

  53. Daria grace*

    Even if this was primarily a work from home job, your staff are being unreasonable to act this way about things they’ve been warned about. Almost any job (and a lot of personal commitments and tasks for that matter) will sometimes require you to be out of the house at inconvenient times. Part of responsible decision making when getting a pet is having a plan for that, especially if it’s a needy pet. I realised I may not be consistently up for managing the issues that arise so decided not to get a pet

  54. Gatomon*

    Whatever happened to puppy pads? The dog doesn’t have to be a puppy to use them! There are plenty of washable/reusable options available too, in case the level of waste generated is a concern.

  55. JJ*

    Do you pay your employees far below the market rate? Or maybe your business is in a place so popular with tourists and high cost of living that you wouldn’t be able to replace the workers if they quit? I can’t think of any other reason to put up with this level of entitlement from employees.

  57. Ganymede II*

    When my dog was a puppy, I absolutely needed to come home in the middle of the day to potty train her, and I checked with my manager that I could take longer lunch breaks for a set amount of time to make it work. But that was 1) time bound and 2) in clear agreement ahead of time.

    Your employees are not being reasonable. Most dogs can handle being left alone in a safe environment for 8 hours. If these dogs can’t, it’s not on you to solve forever.

  58. cherie*

    I agree this is unreasonable – regardless be aware since it’s a unionized office that you can trap yourself by setting up a ‘past practice’ of allowing this for some when you decide, like now, that you need to pull back on it or set boundaries! Clarify their obligations for them asap

Comments are closed.