is my boss crossing lines, coworker injecting medication at their desk, and more

by Alison Green on February 26, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My boss is great in some ways but is he crossing lines?

I’m trying to figure out if my manager is interested in me as more than a coworker, or if the lines he crosses are just a part of his personality. I’ve been with my company as a general manager for eight months, hired into a lower position and immediately promoted by this man. He is always kind and funny with me. He calls me awesome, amazing, sunshine, tells me how funny I am, tells me I’m tough, and that he wants to make my life easier. And these are just the things he regularly says. He is never sexual, and mentions his wife casually in group conversation we are both involved in. He is very stern with other people, but still outgoing and friendly. He isn’t stern with me. He makes sure I’m set up for success in every situation he can.

Now to the parts that are a bit on the fence, so to speak. He often asks me to come and see things on his laptop at a hightop table; I’m 5’2” and he is about 6’4″ and he keeps the laptop in front of him, even if asking me to type something for him, which leads to very close contact. While we speak, he keeps non-broken full eye contact the entire time. He often stands so closely behind me that when he breathes deeply, I feel his chest as he inhales. Other people claim he is “different” with me.

He is an extremely extroverted person, who in my opinion is usually more openly friendly with others than with me. But he makes sure we speak every day, even if one or both of us is off. Flip side, he visits other locations more often than mine. He brags on others more openly than he does me. But something has gotten strange. Does this seem like normal extroverted behavior? Could I just seem like a child to him, paternal affection type stuff?

I just don’t know if maybe I’m misreading and it’s just that I have the best boss ever, not a potential issue.

You have alarm bells going off for a reason; don’t talk yourself out of it.

I don’t know exactly what’s up with your boss, but standing so close that you can feel his chest when he breathes is not normal behavior, and is in fact very creepy. The laptop thing could be simple lack of consideration or it could be pervy, I don’t know — but in combination with standing practically against you, it alarms me. In both these situations, you should feel free to create more physical separation between you. When he’s standing behind you practically touching you, move away! You can do that without announcing it, or it would also be fine to say, “Oh, let me move so we’re not so crowded.” With the laptop, you can say, “I can’t easily reach it from where I am, let me move it closer to me if I need to type” and then move it somewhere where you can access it without leaning into his lap (or whatever is going on in this configuration that he’s arranged).

I suppose it’s possible that you have an otherwise good boss who is remarkably oblivious about physical space issues, but I doubt it. Is he breathing all over male colleagues? If he does it to everyone, regardless of gender, perhaps he simply has no sense of physical boundaries. Otherwise, he knows what he’s doing, which moves him solidly out of “good boss” territory (and, frankly, into “not a good person” territory, too).

2. Coworker injecting medication at their desk

I work in a small office with about 15 people. One of my colleagues has diabetes and has to regularly monitor their blood sugars, which is of course of absolute importance. However, this colleague regularly pulls up their shirt to inject themselves in the stomach while sitting at their desk, and has once or twice done this in front of clients. I completely understand that this is a medical issue that they have to act on urgently, but part of me wonders whether it’s appropriate to ask them to do this in a private space. I’m not weirded out by injections, but some people can be, and I don’t necessarily want to see so much of my colleague’s skin on a regular basis. I have a feeling that this is a me problem and I should just ignore it, but any advice on how to appropriately support my colleague would be gratefully received. (To note, this is an early professional job for my colleague, who is still learning business norms, and helping them learn these is part of my role.)

I’d leave it alone. You’re right that people can be squeamish about needles but there’s no way for you as a colleague to know how urgent the situation might be and they need insulin to live. So it makes sense to err on the side of assuming that if they’re doing it at their desk, it’s because it needs to happen right then (and they might feel a public bathroom isn’t a particularly sanitary place to inject something into their body).

To be clear, if your coworker were the one writing to me, I’d tell them that if they’re able to avoid doing it in front of clients, that’s preferable (with the caveat that it might not always be optional). But as a colleague, I’d stay out of it.

3. Reference for an employee who didn’t perform well

I’m in a situation where I may have to respond to reference checks about a mediocre employee.

My direct report was with us for about nine months. In that time, I quickly discovered some of her basic skills were not as good as her resume or her small test had revealed. I invested a solid chunk of time in training her, and I saw a trajectory of improvement that was slower than I’d have liked, but still reasonable.

However, she recently made a few egregious mistakes. I gave her very serious feedback in the moment and also discussed the situation with my manager and HR. We decided a formal PIP was needed to more formally codify what she needed to fix and improve, and how soon. We all agreed that she had the potential to get there, and this was not a performative PIP where you go through the motions because you want to fire a person. We had not finished drafting this plan and communicating it to her when, for entirely unrelated reasons, many people on our team, including her, were laid off. I was not involved in the decision-making, but it made sense to me given the circumstances of our organization.

She has mentioned that in her job search, she’ll be asking me to be a reference. I don’t feel like I can recommend her without reservations. She has potential, but it was a lot more work to bring her along and train her than I expected or think should have been necessary. If I receive a reference call, how do I respond? Despite my feedback in the moment, I’m not sure she’s fully aware of the pattern of errors she was making, because I was expecting to emphasize that during our PIP discussion that never happened.

Do I talk with her about this? Refuse to be a reference? Act as a reference but be up-front about her strengths and weaknesses? She’s a good person, and I don’t want to be careless and damage her chance at a new job. But I don’t want to give a great recommendation that makes people doubt my judgment, either.

Talk to her and let her know so she can decide whether she wants to offer you as a reference or not. I’d frame it this way: “I want to be transparent that the reference I’d give would be mixed because of what happened with X and Y. The layoffs cut off our discussion about those issues, but otherwise we would have needed to move a formal improvement plan because those concerns were such serious ones. In a reference I’d be able to share that I saw A and B as strengths, but would need to be honest that I wasn’t seeing what I needed in C and D. I want to be up-front with you about that so you can decide whether it makes sense to share my name as a reference or not.”

On my first read of your letter, I was going to add that it’s really important to be giving feedback all along so that the person isn’t blindsided by something like this if it comes up later. But in this case, the way things unfolded made it more understandable that you didn’t: you thought she was coming along, just more slowly than you’d expected, and then when things became more dire you were preparing to address it, but then the layoffs cut you off just as you were about to. It’s not ideal but it sounds like that’s largely a consequence of the layoff timing, not a mistake on your end.

4. Are the federal layoffs causing layoffs at private companies?

I was discussing the federal layoffs with a coworker and she said her in-laws who work at (a) a big private financial services company and (b) the Bezos space company have all seen layoffs recently. Is this in reaction to the federal layoffs? I had thought my and my husband’s jobs in the private sector were safe for now, but now I’m worried.

I can’t speak to the layoffs at those specific companies, but in general, yes, there will be layoffs at private companies as a response to the federal government cuts. Loads of private companies have contracts with the government and so will be affected by the cuts there. And then it’s likely to trickle down further; heavy job losses in any large sector will start affecting other businesses because people will begin restricting their spending (either out of necessity because their households have less or no income or out of caution at what’s happening around them and uncertainty about what’s to come). It’s all intertwined, so what’s happening federally is likely to affect a lot of people in the private sector as well.

5. Alternative to Facebook for discussion groups

I am hoping you can put this out to the readers of AAM for some solutions. I work in payroll for the movies and run a couple of Facebook groups for people doing payroll for both film and television. Not to get too political, I would like to move my group off of Facebook, but I have no idea what other options are out there. I’m Gen-X so comfortable with computers but not so much with social media that isn’t mainstream.

Could someone direct me to a site where a group can have discussions, share files/documents, and limit access to members only? Basically, FB without the political ramifications.

I’m happy to throw it out to suggestions from readers, but take a look at Discord.

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

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  2. Daria grace*

    #2, i agree with Alison to leave this one alone. I don’t know what specific type of medication your coworker is using but if it’s delivered in the pen style many diabetics use it doesn’t look enough like a needle that it’s likely to creep most people out. The showing more skin that necessary is maybe not ideal in an office environment but is something I’d hope everyone else could be mature about since it’s for a good reason.

    I don’t like doing my injections in the bathroom as I’m forced to either hold all my supplies while injecting or to put stuff down on a surface that may be damp or dirty.

    1. Alz*

      Yeah, I wouldn’t suggest bathroom- but is there anywhere else they could do it? do you have a nursing room or a break out room they could use? They might not love doing it at their desk either but don’t want the bathroom and don’t feel they have an option. If you do bring it up I would only do so as an information thing and only once “hey, don’t want to intrude and I want to be clear that it isn’t a problem what you are doing, but would you like a more private space to inject? If you would like we can give you a draw in the [whatever] room where you can close the door and store your equipment, again, not an issue with what you are doing, just want to make sure you are comfortable”

      But, if you don’t think you can pull that off as supportive and non-intrusive then I would leave it alone.

      1. Sam M*

        As a T1 diabetic, I don’t ‘not love’ injecting at my desk. I do it wherever – because frankly, T1 diabetes is so much of an inconvenience that I’m not going to waste a few minutes going off to a bathroom or wherever to do a 5-second injection (into fat, not a vein). If someone was needle-phobic, I would be considerate and turn away so they couldn’t see me inject, but anyone expecting more than that would really aggravate me.

        If it helps, consider it like any other disability – expecting the disabled to mitigate other people’s discomfort with their disability is generally frowned upon.

        It’s worth saying that I’m 38, been a T1 since 21, and never had anyone complain – so I would very much discourage asking people to hide away ‘in case’ they get a complaint that is realistically very unlikely.

        1. Sam M*

          I think perhaps I was a bit harsh – but from the perspective of someone in the UK, a co-worker saying “Would you like a more private space” would very much scan as a passive-aggressive request.

          1. MozartBookNerd*

            Thank you Sam. Overtones of communication can be so tricky, and your point about how it “scans” is really astute. It helped me in this context and I’ll extrapolate from it too. Cheers.

          2. londonedit*

            I think it’s context-dependent – if you were mid-injecting and someone came up to your desk and just said ‘Would you like a more private place to do that?’ then yes, absolutely, that would 100% read as passive-aggressive.

            Of course, you might have your own opinion on it, but I’m not sure whether someone having a quick private conversation where they say ‘I don’t mean to pry, but I noticed you injecting your insulin at your desk, and I wondered whether you might be more comfortable in a private room? No problem if not, but the wellness room is always available if you need it’ would be pass-agg. Personally I’d think that would be fine, but of course it would all depend on tone and context. I’d leave that sort of conversation for a neutral time – i.e. not immediately after someone had injected at their desk – so that it wouldn’t come across as criticism.

          3. Alz*

            Yeah, Fair criticism.

            My context comes from having a co-worker (different team and not a report) who was pumping in her car each day. I randomly had an out of work conversation when she told me she felt that there was no other options available as booking a meeting room was often hard and she didn’t want to lug her equipment around everywhere looking for a space. She had never asked because she didn’t want to put anyone out- it took two emails from me and she got a permeant space. I don’t think anyone should be ashamed of injecting but, like nursing, it should be a standard accommodation that a private space is available if needed/wanted. 100% agree that it shouldn’t be done unless you are confident it doesn’t come across as passive aggressive and Londonedit is spot on that timing matters- as well as tone

        2. Dead Pancreas Owner*

          T1 here, same age as you (UK-based). I also don’t do bathroom because it’s unhygienic and inconvenient, and as you said this condition is such a pain in the backside and I am just trying to keep myself alive.

          What I found works for me is disclosing my condition to the colleagues I tend to sit with and casually say “hey, I till have to occasionally inject insulin, and it’s easier and more hygienic for me to do it here. Does anyone have issues with needles? If so, I’ll make sure to avoid doing it in your proximity”. I never had any objections, and everyone has been super chill about it.

          1. Shinespark*

            Yeah, I think that’s the way. If you’re someone who’s very phobic of needles, asking for a quick heads up so you don’t accidentally see the injecting happening is fine. Asking your colleague to shape their whole medication routine around you is not.

            1. Seashell*

              I think what you describe makes sense with co-workers, but it sounds like the person is doing this in front of clients without giving them an option to not see it.

              1. Kay*

                As someone still queasy from just reading the OPs letter I think this is what got to me the most. I fully understand this is a me thing, but I also don’t think having an ambulance haul me out because I passed out and hit my head (as a client or co-worker) is a great alternative to someone being a bit more discreet as a baseline.

                2. Dahlia*

                  I feel like if you see them getting out their insulin kit, laying everything out, pulling up their shirt a little bit, that’s probably a warning to not look for a moment?

                3. Head Sheep Counter*

                  @Andromeda, why would one not give a client the same heads up you give a colleague? Or… wait? Or excuse oneself? It doesn’t seem like a crazy bar to have in a client facing job.

                4. Miss Chanandler Bong*

                  I mean, I get it, but I still feel like if you saw someone getting out something medical, you could just not look.

                  Having had asthma my entire life and now carrying a portable nebulizer, I don’t get why people must stare.

                5. Kay*

                  @Dahlia & Andromeda – as I client I’m probably not going to be at their desk. If they need to do it in a meeting I’m in, give me the courtesy of allowing me to step out/prepare myself/etc. because if I suddenly look over and see all that, the next part of the meeting is going to be shitty for everyone. I’ll be passed out or trying to keep from passing out and I won’t be recovering well for a bit. I would love for things to be different but it isn’t. I fully understand a diabetic, or anyone with a chronic condition, has it much worse for their entire life, but I would love to make sure the meeting isn’t a BIG DEAL over something that could have been avoided.

                  If its a co-worker who is going to be sitting so I can’t avoid seeing them if I look over, a simple “heads up, give me a minute of privacy” should do the trick.

                6. Nice cup of tea*

                  If your phobia is really so bad that you need an ambulance then you need therapy.

                  I suspect you are just being rather dramatic. Either way, this is your problem.

                  We don’t hide disabled people away any more.

            2. UKDancer*

              Yes, this so much. I have real needle issues and feel faint when I see them even on TV (vaccinations are hard). So someone letting me know this was a thing so I can turn and look away would be really kind and helpful.

              I wouldn’t expect them to move or go somewhere insanitary but just being told so I could look the other way would be appreciated.

              1. Catagorical*

                Me too. Just give me 15 seconds notice so I can turn my head and keep it turned. I have no other objections or requirements, but please do this much.

                And no, I don’t need therapy. (About this….:)

          2. hohumdrum*

            As someone who is squeamish about needles, I think this is the way. TBH I wouldn’t even need you to do it away from me, I would just request a warning so I can look away until you’re done.

            I think this is a “communication is key” scenario. Though in this case, that goes both ways. If no one has complained yet, I think LW can leave it be for now.

        3. Pom Mom*

          Needle phobic here. Can the diabetic give the people who might see the injection 30 seconds notice so they can leave for a minute? I’d be happy to move so you don’t have to deal with me fainting.

          1. NothingIsLittle*

            Not diabetes, but I also have an injected medication. They usually come in pens that completely conceal the needle. Is that still a problem? Genuine question! My best friend has a problem with needles, but isn’t bothered by my injection pens.

            1. londonedit*

              Everyone’s different, but I have a problem with needles and the pens do still make me feel queasy, even if they don’t provoke the full-on phobia response. But everyone’s different! I’d prefer not to see someone injecting with a pen if possible, but also I wouldn’t expect them to leave the room.

              1. UKDancer*

                Yeah I’ve a friend who uses a pen and it still makes me feel queasy. So a few seconds to look away would be really helpful.

            2. Anon for Needles*

              For me, it’s sort of the whole idea of injecting things (in scientific research, it’s described as discomfort with “violation of the bodily envelope”); even people talking about getting tattoos or sharing pictures of fresh tattoos makes me feel a little lightheaded. So not seeing you in the act of using the pen would be preferable for me, but I assume everyone’s feeling would be different.

              If I had a coworker regularly injecting around me, I’m guessing I’d be able to pick up on the “oh, they just grabbed the pen from their bag, better look away” warning cue. If somehow I was seeing them without warning, I’d probably say something like “hey, I have kind of a weird thing about seeing needles, if it’s not too much of a hassle for you to give me a quick heads up so that I can just look away I’d appreciate it.”

              1. Elitist Semicolon*

                I’m not particularly squeamish about needles but I have just discovered I am extremely squeamish about the phrase “violation of the bodily envelope.” It’s amazing how sometimes efforts to be objective and technical result in something worse than, say, “jab.”

              2. Sam M*

                Most diabetics I know will say “Oh, just going to take a shot” anyway when we’re going to inject, just to let people know not to distract/jostle us for a few seconds. So asking for a heads up wouldn’t be a big deal.

            3. Kay*

              Not the person you asked, but for me it is. To give you an idea – just reading the OPs letter has me queasy, light headed, weak, a headache is coming on and I’m staying seated for a while. A lot of it is the mental image of knowing what is happening, so for me if someone did something discreetly that I wasn’t aware of I would be fine, if they said “Can you give me a minute I need to -insert benign work task-” I would also be fine, but if they specifically said “You might want to turn I’m injecting myself right now” I would need a chair stat.

              1. RagingADHD*

                If you need / expect a disabled person to use euphemisms of your choice to enable you to tolerate the very idea of their medical needs, then that is 100 percent a you thing, sorry. And it does kind of make me wonder why you went ahead and read a letter titled “coworker injecting medication at their desk,” if you already know the wrong combination of words would upset you so much.

                Fortunately, I take it from your use of “if” and “would” that you apparently have never had to deal with this particular situation in real life. If you were to encounter it, it would probably help you to know that T1D folks don’t take doses of insulin randomly for no reason, and they can’t intuit that they need one. If they need a booster dose, it’s because they have gotten an alert from their glucose monitor.

                I believe you are aware enough of your surrounding that you would be able to grok from seeing them pull out their supplies, or hear their monitor alert, or hear them mention “that’s my insulin monitor, excuse me,” and prepare yourself, in case they failed to use an innocuous enough phrase for the medication itself.

            5. Grimalkin*

              It definitely depends. For me, the pen would be fine–it’s seeing the needle go into skin that wigs me out (makes me feel warm and light-headed, specifically). Doesn’t have to be my skin, or even human skin–I had to cover up a photo of an injection in a textbook because it always made me a bit queasy.

            6. Commenty*

              Hello! I am afraid of needles and have passed out at the doctor’s office before. However, seeing someone inject medicine with the pen type device you describe is absolutely no problem for me at all. For what it’s worth, I would also have no issue with the OP’s situation. It is pretty easy for me to avert my eyes if I see something I don’t want to see at work. Everyone is different, but I hope this perspective helps.

          2. Yankees fans are awesome!*

            Yep, this. Things have to be equitable. Otherwise, it’s unfairly one-sided, solely in favor of the person injecting, with no regard for anyone else’s physical reaction. A 30-second notice – would it even take that long? – so that squeamish co-workers can step aside for a literal moment is entirely doable under most circumstances and an understandable, legitimate request.

              1. Wayward Sun*

                “Might feel lightheaded” vs “will die without this” is a pretty one-sided situation to start with!

                1. Lenora Rose*

                  No diabetic is going to die so fast that they can’t say, “you might want to look away a moment.”

                  And seriously I know people who don’t just get a bit lightheaded but literally pass out at a needle; a little mutual consideration in advance might save a big drama later.

                2. Aardvark*

                  You seem to not be getting that ‘might feel light headed’ can become ‘I may faint and in falling end up with a head injury’ some consideration in both directions isn’t unreasonable.

            2. Also-ADHD*

              I think this is on anyone THAT squeamish and THAT likely to see it to ask for. I’m not a fan of needles personally, but I’d never feel fussed about it enough that I’d prioritize it over a person’s wellbeing. If someone is really traumatized (truly debilitated) by seeing this, they can have a conversation, but realistically, is that actually a problem? I don’t see this as “one sided” – I see it as a person taking care of a medical need. And others maybe having mild feelings about it, which they can self-regulate.

              1. Lenora Rose*

                Look, my husband is a diabetic and inject meds in front of me with no issue. OTOH, we do know someone who will literally hit the floor, out cold, if it happens in front of him. which i would say is a bit more than “mild feeling”. So yes, you can be considerate of both the diabetic and the needlephobe.

          3. Ellie*

            I get quite squeamish with needles too, but I somehow coped when I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes, because I needed to, to save my life, and my baby. This just feels like an unnecessary inconvenience for someone who is already dealing with a lot. Insulin needles really shouldn’t be a big deal, they are almost completely covered.

        4. anonny*

          I’m 34 and have been T1D since I was 12. People making a big deal about my injections always rubs me the wrong way, especially if I’m asked to move to a ‘special place’ to do it. I can whip out my pen and inject in less than 90 seconds. Having to go to a separate room would be very obvious and more of a disruption.

          I also don’t want to be separated from my insulin in a public space.

          1. Lenora Rose*

            I agree with both parts: you need your insulin on hand and should be allowed to inject anywhere. But I ALSO think giving a verbal warning is a not-unreasonable ask. (unlike asking you to go elsewhere, which is silly.)

        5. Potato*

          EXACTLY. As a fellow T1 diabetic, I feel like my disability is already so much of an inconvenience to me, that other people can handle the inconvenience of having to visually see me taking care of my disability in a public space. If it’s uncomfortable for the viewer, imagine how much more it must suck for me!

            2. Ant*

              One of my best friends is T1 diabetic and we go out for dinner a lot, so I’ve seen her inject herself a lot, and I can say with a decent amount of experience that there’s a fair amount of visual warning before her pen even touches her skin.

        6. Lydia*

          Another T1 here. I’m 50 and was diagnosed at 2. I’m with you. If someone got weird about it, I would be right up front to tell them to MYOB. Frankly, I’m not a huge fan of needles, either, but before I got an insulin pump needles were (and still are) a daily part of my existence. I try to be considerate and turn away, but I grew up in an era before sharps containers and my father and I were accused of being intravenous drug users because someone saw needles in our garbage bag. The shit I have to deal with as a person with a chronic condition will outweigh someone’s discomfort around needles every single time.

          1. Bomm*

            I don’t think people are talking about discomfort. They are taking about phobias, which are disabling, if (usually?) not life-threatening. I am uncomfortable around needles and would never have a reaction like those being described. So I’m not speaking for myself but only for mutual sympathy and consideration.

            1. Lydia*

              My empathy extends exactly as far as someone’s phobia that won’t kill them with my ability to take the medication that literally keeps me alive.

              1. Lenora Rose*

                And if they pass out cold on the floor?

                The question here isn’t “Can I take my actually life-saving meds in public at need?” which is an unqualified YES.

                It’s “Is it better to refuse to warn anyone at all and just do it?” or “Is it better to say a word of warning then just do it?”

                I am having a hard time seeing where a word of warning is so onerous a burden. (And yes, if I was taking a pill, I WOULD say “excuse me a moment”, which is the sum total of what I feel is being asked.)

                1. StephChi*

                  You will know when someone’s going to inject themselves because they have to take out their insulin and a needle and fill the needle with the insulin. They don’t just whip out a filled needle and jab themselves with it.

                  Also, they might not be able to warn you verbally if they’re on the verge of having a diabetic seizure, and need to concentrate on getting insulin into themselves immediately.

                  I know this because I’m very good friends with a T1 diabetic, so I’ve seen her inject herself many times. I’ve also been there when she’s gone into a diabetic seizure, and had to help her get candy into herself to make it stop. If seeing someone inject themselves is hard for you, you’re really not going to want to experience them seizing in front of you because they couldn’t get their shot fast enough.

        7. Ellen N.*

          I am severely hypodermic needle phobic.

          I would never even consider asking an insulin dependent diabetic to change their routine to accommodate me.

          My phobia is mine to manage; it should not affect others.

        8. Freya*

          I AM needle-phobic, and given two seconds of notice I will close my eyes or look at the paperwork I’m perusing in preference to making someone go elsewhere to do something vital to their health. I can afford to not look at someone for thirty seconds!

      2. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        My nephew has to do this, at weird moments, and it’s always best to react asap. He simply says “excuse me” and turns away to do it. It’s true that it’s not for the most squeamish, and I would say that this employee could do the same, in order to not expose members of the public to his medical issue.

      3. Ally McBeal*

        I think LW’s coworker should get a private office as an accommodation, if private offices are available in their building. It seems like it would be more sanitary and would also solve the issue of doing it in front of clients. Or maybe the building can set up a wellness room, although access would have to be carefully managed to make sure the person with diabetes can access it at a moment’s notice.

        1. dulcinea47*

          that’s potentially punitive to the person with diabetes, to separate them from their coworkers. They’d be out of the loop for conversations that happen among everyone else. Not very fair.

          1. Miss Chanandler Bong*

            IDK, I have asthma and have to give myself nebulizer treatments every now and then. I’d be fine with a private office (I work from home so this is a non-issue).

        2. Nice cup of tea*

          There is nothing unsanitary about taking medication.

          Another one who thinks people shouldn’t be disabled in public.

          Would you like to put wheelchair users away from clients too?

            1. bel*

              Oh, and I overheard a conversation about how I was moved because I didn’t look good. Apparently, I was prettier before.

        3. Lenora Rose*

          I think that’s a bit excessive; though I know private offices are often a perk, they do have disadvantages, especially when isolated from peer-level both physically and by getting something they don’t.

    2. Martin Blackwood*

      Yeah, I give myself IM injections/ am generally really good w medical stuff—but assuming its a pen type injector, those needles are SO SMALL I think youd really have to watch to regester that its a needle. I remember my diabetic friend giving herself an injection across a restaurant table from me—it was over so quick I dont think I actually saw the needle. Not ideal in front of Clients, sure—if OP is in a position to keep the conversation going, I think thatd be a good way to keep the focus off coworker, but not necessarily necessary to talk to them about it.

    3. Goreygal*

      Plus we need to normalise not having to hide a perfectly normal and common part of managing diabetes.

      1. Ashley*

        I get normalizing, but there are needle squeamish people. I have to cover my eyes when they show the pen like needles on tv, but the fact they show it on tv commercials tells me it is a me problem. However, not wanting to faint at work is a fairly normal goal so mutual consideration amongst colleagues will go better for everyone.

        1. Cassiopeia*

          In that case the compromise is for you to look away, not for the person to have to go somewhere else.

          1. Lisa*

            And I agree that’s totally reasonable, but to do that the person injecting has to give warning. Reasonable actions on both sides.

            1. Lydia*

              Just look away, like you would if you noticed someone doing something else you shouldn’t necessarily be a part of. It’s not that deep.

        2. anonny*

          I inject in my thigh (through clothing – I wear quite thin fabrics most of the time) and I just put my cupped hand around the injection in case of people who are squeemish. Not possible with other common injection sites like the stomach, arm, or buttocks, but yanno.

          1. medication > discomfort*

            Injections do not happen out of the blue. There is preparation involved – the kit gets pulled out, a test might be done to confirm the current glucose level even if the person has a monitor (and if there is a monitor, the diabetic would be checking that as well and there might even be an audible alarm if the level is urgent), the area of the test or injection needs to be sanitized, the pen might need to be uncapped/calibrated, if they are using a traditional needle instead of pen, the (life saving!) medication will need to be pulled from the bottle after it is unpacked from their kit/cooler, etc. That seems to be a big clue that the squeamish should look away.

            1. Head Sheep Counter*

              But if you have to do all this prep work… is using words to say something really a large lift? People pull interesting things out of their drawers and purses all of the time. It is reasonable that an average person would have no idea what you are doing. Why would they?

              1. Andromeda Carr*

                Have you read any of the comments here about why diabetics cannot wait? Or a single comment saying “do not tell people in order to make it so they can’t look away”?

                1. Head Sheep Counter*

                  I’m not sure what your point is. My question was if one has to take time to prep… shouldn’t one also be able to say please excuse me?

                2. Andromeda Carr*

                  My point is that no one here is arguing against saying “please excuse me” but instead arguing against, say, being sent to an unclean bathroom or told to wait for an hour. Your arguing as if the “please excuse me” option is embattled is actually setting up a defense of sending people with diabetes to an unclean bathroom, etc, for something that can be done and over with in 30 seconds.

                3. Lenora Rose*

                  Yes, some people ARE arguing against saying “please excuse me”. Just a few comments above yours, we have a prime example: “If you aren’t going to warn me before taking a pill for your chronic illness, I’m not going to warn you before taking medication for mine. Sorry, not sorry.”

                  I don’t think anyone should be asked to move elsewhere to inject or get sent off into other rooms, but I DO think less of people who are treating the idea of saying a few words of warning as somehow an onerous burden and not a bit of politeness.

                4. Lydia*

                  And I stand by it. I already have enough mental load to deal with managing my own illness. I can’t be responsible for managing your discomfort, too.

              2. lemonbalm*

                Yes it can be. The situation could be urgent. If you see someone pulling out their kit, you would know what that means and to look away.

                I also don’t understand folks that are watching these colleagues this closely that they would notice it.

              3. bel*

                Do they need to make an announcement every time or do you think you might look somewhere else after the first day or two?

                1. Lenora Rose*

                  In the original letter, they talk about doing it in front of clients, who might never have seen it before, not just coworkers.

                  I’m also genuinely not sure how “excuse me a moment” is that terrible an ask.

                2. bel*

                  If your concern is about clients, why imagine yourself as a coworker?

                  I’m also genuinely not sure how “excuse me a moment” is that terrible an ask.

                  Never said that. :) I do think that minding your business while someone takes medication is a pretty reasonable expectation.

                3. Head Sheep Counter*

                  @bel…. how can the client mind their own business? They are there at the behest of whatever is being provided and is either an appointment or a walk in. They are there specifically to see the colleague. It is beyond silly to imagine that they would look anywhere but at the colleague. The idea that an excuse me is a mountain to high in this situation is truly baffling.

          2. Aardvark*

            That is fine. But several commenters have been saying they shouldn’t have to even have to be courteous to give people that chance to look away

            1. Pomelo*

              As Type 1 diabetic, I already have enough to manage with this chronic condition. I don’t feel it’s reasonable to expect that I also have to manage other people’s phobias as well and giving a warning beforehand will make it a much bigger deal. I am confused about why folks can’t just look away? How hard are we staring at our coworkers anyways?

            2. Sopranoh*

              I think people are thinking these shots are more of a production than they actually are. I either turn away or my desk hides the actual injection. It takes me all of 5 seconds.

              Granted, I’ve been doing this for 40 years and have a +10 in stealth for it, but calling it out would defeat the purpose of me being as unobtrusive as possible. Because, no, I don’t want to have to announce my disability multiple times a day.

        4. Ineffable Bastard*

          For me it’s elevators. I turned down a governmental job once because it would require to spend the whole day going up and down different floors and bringing equipment, so using the stairs was not an option despite being young and able-bodied at the time. I never fainted, though, despite having physical reactions to being in an elevator, so I don’t know how avoidable fainting is when it comes to other phobias.

          1. Lenora Rose*

            Depends on the phobia, depends on the person.

            The friend I have, M, who will faint at needles managed once to hold it together enough to physically hold his 12-year-old stepchild in desperate medical need –whose own needle-phobia meant she was thrashing and screaming even after consenting to the necessary treatment. He fainted as the needle was safely withdrawn, instead. The nurse said she’d never seen someone drop so fast.

            I have my own stories about my own kids and needle fears, but none involve fainting. (fainting would be frankly easier). I’m the kind of person who usually watches my own blood draws and IVs.

      2. CatDude*

        Agreed. There’s already enough diabetes stigma without making an issue of such a simple way of managing the disease.

      3. Kay*

        I get what you are saying but I’ve tried my best to get over my issues with blood, needles, etc. It hasn’t happened.

        I’m aware it is very much a problem for me but for someone to tell me that random exposure therapy in the office should be acceptable, when that could end with me passing out and potentially getting injured, is a step too far when in most cases making sure no one sees the needle/injector/injection is a very viable option.

        1. Andromeda Carr*

          I haven’t seen anyone recommend jumpscaring people with injections. However, I have seen people explain why being forced to leave their desk/leave the room/use the bathroom does not work for them.

          1. Kay*

            I read the comment -needing to normalize not hiding (basically an injection)- as it should be okay to just do without warning, aka jumpscare. I also read that as what the LWs coworker is doing.

            I’m not advocating for anyone to be forced to go elsewhere (good gawd never a bathroom), I’m saying I would like to so I don’t end up passed out! I don’t think asking for a heads up should be too high a bar. There are also plenty of people saying to just look away when the supplies come out, well, there is a good chance that is also too late for me. If someone says “Hey, need to check my insulin”, cool, I am doing what I need to do so they can do what they need and we are both happy and healthy.

            1. Lydia*

              Sure. I’ll stand up and announce to the whole room I’m getting ready to do something that would be unnoticeable otherwise.

              1. Kay*

                If it is unnoticeable otherwise then LW wouldn’t have written in and this wouldn’t even be a discussion. If it is noticeable, having the courtesy of a heads up seems like a reasonable ask.

                1. Lydia*

                  I have to think enough about my own illness without having to deal with other people’s weirdness about my illness. Manage your own feelings and let me take the literal medication that keeps me alive without having even more anxiety about it, thanks.

              2. Pomelo*

                Agree with you, Lydia. I absolutely do not want to stand up and announce every time I need a shot like it’s something I need to be weirdly ashamed of.

        2. Nice cup of tea*

          Maybe if you have problem with needles you should work from home so you don’t have to interact witb people.

          1. Catagorical*

            Needle phobias are common, and outside of a medical office, not expected in most situations. A quiet notice to people right near you doesn’t seem like more than everyday courtesy.

            I figured people who injected near me w/out warning (and no preparation I saw) were unable to imagine it could make others dizzy, etc., since they are very conversant with the procedure by necessity.

            But from the obvious hostility of at least two posters, it seems perhaps they find it desirable to surprise someone and cause some hurt to them by forcing them to observe the injection.

            I am very sorry to learn this.

            1. Lydia*

              Your discomfort is legitimately less important to me than my actual medication that I will die without. I’m sorry you’re phobic, but that sounds like something to work on with your therapist. I walk around all day every day with diabetes and there is not one part of my life that isn’t affected by it or that I can just forget about it. I am not too bothered about the momentary discomfort you might feel because of that.

    4. Falling Diphthong*

      OP2, does your office even have a private space that can be used by employees? Because if the more private option is “Sitting on a lidless toilet, juggling and perhaps dropping any supplies because there is no desklike surface to set them on” then at the desk is better than that option.

      (I type that as someone with a needle phobia: I really don’t want to see this. But I can’t expect people to manifest new architecture when they aren’t in charge of the allocation of physical space.)

    6. Susie and Elaine Problem*

      Yeah, I think doing it at your workstation might be better than in the bathroom. You have all your supplies with you, don’t need to wait for an available stall or sink area, and we all know how gross bathrooms can be (see the post about the bathroom masturbator from the other day).

    7. JMC*

      Yup you need to mind your own business when it comes to injections. Leave it alone. I am on insulin and I would straight up be the person injecting at their desk.

    8. e271828*

      I think the issue for me comes not that coworker is injecting at their desk, but doing it in front of clients. That’s a professionalism lapse. Clients are not here to support coworker. The LW should bring it up to management: coworker needs a clean, private place to pop in and do their shot not in front of clients. Even privacy half-partition panels for the office would work; that would give them enough screening.

      If the coworker is letting their blood sugar run so wild that they absolutely must this instant inject, that’s a them problem. I know it can happen, but generally there’s some warning (one knows what sets that off). Years of living with brittle diabetic family have taught me that this is really a problem and also that there is usually a way to take a shot (even in pre-pen days) very discreetly.

        1. Yeah... Nope*

          No it’s not. People who don’t have diabetes shouldn’t opine on a subject they know nothing about. That’s doubly true of people with phobias who have a (by definition) irrational response to a treatment for a disability.

          I’m a diabetic and on chemo and I inject at my desk and I have injected in front of clients when I needed to. If that makes you or the client faint, I sincerely do not care.

          2. Catagorical*

            Everything but your last sentence. Just say “I need to take some medication “ to the person you are talking to at the moment.

            I would care if anyone faints, for any reason.

          3. Aardvark*

            ‘If that makes you or the client faint, I sincerely do not care.’
            This is the only line that makes your response problematic. you are expecting others to give full care to your medical needs, without ANY consideration of theirs.

            I do not have a phobia of needles. I am intellectually interested in medical things. But my stomach and my blood pressure disagree. I can happily take any injection I need with rarely even a flinch, but I have learned I cannot look at it being done without consequence.
            I have no problem with the idea of people injecting in my presence, but I do need a moment to be able to look away so I don’t throw up on your shoes. That is all that most commenters are asking for. Not for you to have to go elsewhere or announce it to the room. But if I was to be sitting next to you a quiet hey would be courteous.

            1. Craig*

              i had that problem worse. seeing a needle would cause me to collapse and once docs sent me to hospital because I was too sweaty for ecg. I got cured which is not an option for diabetics.

      3. atalanta0jess*

        “Clients are not here to support coworker.”

        In what sense is doing an injection in front of them asking them to support the coworker? Is it different in any meaningful sense from blowing your nose in front of someone?

        1. HoundMom*

          Exactly this. I am in a client facing role and I have both clients and colleagues who are T1 diabetics. I am extremely squeamish. My squeamishness and someone else’s health are not equal. I have never heard anyone comment, even in private about a diabetic injecting themselves with needed medication.

      5. Nat20*

        Hard disagree. It’s not a professionalism lapse to take medicine, and it’s especially not anyone’s business to speculate on a coworker’s blood sugar levels “running wild”; thats dangerously close to blaming-someone-for-needing-medical-care territory. T1s (like myself) need injections and tests frequently, that’s just how it is regardless of how controlled their diabetes is, and it’s not sustainable to leave the room every single time. It should not be any different from someone saying “excuse me I just need to take my medicine real quick” and popping a time-sensistive pill. The client or coworker can look away for 10 seconds if they don’t like needles or blood. I have complete sympathy for people uncomfortable with it but that doesn’t change the fact that my health > your comfort, every time.

        1. Ineffable Bastard*

          I think that the lack of saying “excuse me” is the crux of the issue here — a heads-up of 5 seconds can be beneficial for whoever is around without imposing a big burden on the person taking medeication

    9. OP#2*

      OP2 here – thank you to Allison and to everyone for their thoughtful responses. My gut feeling was that raising this wasn’t appropriate and I really appreciate the sensible advice. I have resolved to a) advocate for a private, non-bathroom space in the office for colleagues to use for their personal / medical needs (which I may or may not be successful in) and b) to educate myself more about diabetes and how people manage it (which I can definitely do!) Really appreciate this community.

  3. IT Relationship Manager*

    Oh no, I’ve taken insulin at my desk. I don’t have an office but I do turn away from the one coworker who can see me. It’s much easier to do than than go across the building to take it in a bathroom.

    I do use the bathroom at restaurants because I don’t want to do that at a table (there’s a lot of things you shouldn’t do there!). But at work I can do it discreetly and without bothering my coworker.

    I’m a little desensitized to needles and medical things from my life so maybe I’m not a good gauge for how others might feel, but it wouldn’t bother me if I saw skin of a coworker of they needed medicine.

    I agree with Alison that if this person was writing in, I’d say don’t do it in front of so many people and especially people that aren’t part of a closer circle to you like clients.

    1. MassMatt*

      If I might ask—how time-sensitive is it to get insulin, is going to a rest room or unused conference room potentially too long?

      1. Daria grace*

        It’s unusual that it would be a can’t wait a few minutes kind of issue. However bathrooms can be suboptimal places to inject due to no-where clean and dry to put down your supplies and in some office finding a spare conference room can take a while

        1. Storm in a teacup*

          If the office has a wellbeing room or space maybe that’s an option. If they’re still learning office norms then it may help them to know it’s ok if they need to step away for a few minutes even if with a client.

      2. Goreygal*

        also.. it’s something that takes a few seconds to actually do. managing diabetes can already be quite a cumulative burden…why ask people to add 5-10 mins of logistics to each injection.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Yeah, I was just thinking that. If the office is massive or the amenities are on another floor, it can take a minute to get to a wellness room. In a smaller office, this might not be an issue, but if someone is feeling unsteady, it makes more sense just to inject quickly and discreetly at their desk than to try to go find a private place and then pass out on the way.

      3. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        It can wait a bit but I believe it’s best to react immediately. And it can be frequent enough that getting up to go somewhere else can be terribly disruptive (especially if you’re working with the public). Turning away while excusing yourself is just fine.

      4. NotAnotherManager!*

        I have always worked in fairly nice offices, and I would never inject myself in the bathrooms. There is just not enough space (or space I’m confident is clean enough) to set down the supplies required for it and sometimes not enough elbow room to comfortably inject. I was uncomfortable enough with needles that also trying to balance all the components in the bathroom did not work.

        Our conference rooms also have glass walls and no door locks. Where I am now, we have lockable quiet rooms for nursing parents, daytime prayers, medical needs like this, etc. – but we didn’t have this when I had medical needs and you still sometimes have to wait for them if they are in use. There were times I couldn’t wait.

        I tried very hard not to inject myself in front of other people, particularly customers, but offices are not generally set up for this sort of routine medical care. I did end up telling some of my coworkers directly around me what was going on so we could avoid awkwardness, but I had worked with them for quite some time and felt comfortable sharing this information with them specifically.

      5. anonny*

        If you’re taking it with food, you generally have 5-15 minutes before it starts working. If you’re taking it for regular high levels, and especially if you’re self-managing ketonacidosis, it needs to be taken ASAP.

      6. Nomic*

        It’s not as much a time-issue to get the insulin, it’s a invasion of my time. (T1 diabetic here for 40+ years). If every time I need to take 30 seconds for an injection I need to pack up my stuff and go to a conference room (what if it’s occupied?), shut the door, give the 30 second injection, then pack back up and go back to my desk that’s a lot longer than 30 seconds.

      7. StarTrek Nutcase*

        I take injections for migraines. At their worse, that meant 1-2 injections every day at varying times. At work, catching the precursor symptoms is harder than at home (difference in environment noise, activity, focus, etc) so at migraines frequently went from 0 to double vision & extreme nausea within a couple minutes. Being able to inject without delay was vital for optimal effectiveness. So I did inject at my desk – very visibly in my upper arm. I alerted new coworkers it could happen. Then if in conversation with others including visitors, I’d just say “Excuse me, I’m going to inject a medication” as I pulled out my injector, turned my back, and inject – all within 1 minutes total.

        So when in conversation or in presence of a visitor, I think common courtesy calls for a very brief alert, discretion upon injecting when possible, and nothing more. Certainly neither I nor any other person should be expected to remove ourselves to shield others.

      8. Lenora Rose*

        Time wise, usually not. In practice, for the sake of comfort and a lack of disruption, the person should be allowed to do it at their desk with minimal fuss, though a polite word to someone who might not be used to the event doesn’t seem wildly out of place.

    3. Nodramalama*

      I personally think it’s fine. But anecdotally, one of my diabetic colleagues injected during a meeting, and one of the other people in the meeting was extremely afraid of needles and fainted, and was very embarrassed by it.

      1. Lab Snep*

        I used to be severely needlephobic until I ended up with chronic health issues that had me having to have blood taken.

        OTOH, I could TAKE blood from people well and with no phobia.

        I cannot do my own IM injections so I use gel testosterone, but the second TestoPel is available in Canada I will be having my doc administer that every 3 months.

        1. NotAnotherManager!*

          Another severe needlephone until I had to start injecting myself. Truly one of my worst nightmares. I nearly passed out when the nurse practitioner was explaining the process to me. My spouse very kindly offered to do them for me so I didn’t have to, but that ended up being worse – at least if I did it, I was in control.

          My mom, who has been getting allergy shots her whole life, thinks I am a giant baby.

        2. A Cita*

          I also have to self inject (B-12) and was not a fan of needles….and these are intermuscular injections. It’s been about a decade now. I still feel hesitant when I go to do it, but actually doing it is fine. But those are big needles.

          On a side note, I do testosterone gel, but I highly do not recommend pellets. They dump in right away and then you trough for a long time, and because they are inserted, there is nothing you can do about it for 3 months. Highly recommend the TRT_females subreddit to learn more about why pellets aren’t a great idea (for women on T for health, not transitioning). You can also do sub-q T injection, not intermuscular.

          1. Steve for Work Purposes*

            Yeah I’m on subcutaneous T and it’s pretty easy. I do half a vial every week and a half and it’s a lot more convenient for managing my levels and therefore my migraines/etc. But I also don’t have any issues with needles (I vaccinate animals and draw blood at my job in fact). If you can’t do needles then the gel is a great option!

    4. Pomodoro Sauce*

      I’m kind of a baby about needles — I get faint during vaccinations, don’t like to see needles or syringes — but my coworker’s insulin injector thing didn’t look anything like the typical syringe and didn’t trigger the same reaction for me.

      The whole process was about as disruptive as someone needing to answer a couple of texts during work; it’s clear that she wasn’t available to chat while doing it, but it took very little time and caused no disturbance.

  4. BadMitten*

    LW 5, I agree with the discord suggestion and also will throw in Bluesky (where you can also follow @askamanager). Also Signal, depending on how your group talks.

    I know so many small businesses that only have a Facebook site, it’s a shame that meta has gone downhill. Even ignoring the terrible politics, its feed is awful, and over half the ads seem like scams. It’s just very unfortunate.

    1. Katie Impact*

      It sounds like Bluesky doesn’t have the features to suit OP5’s needs right now: it doesn’t currently support making discussion groups, has pretty limited file-sharing capabilities, and all posts are public by design.

      2. Temporarily Anon*

        The company I work for is increasingly distributed, and we use Discord, the Google suite, and now Monday.

        Facebook has always been too intrusive and too eager to monetize every bit of information they can collect. I don’t use it myself for the reason, and if for some reason the company decided to use it (they won’t) I’d have to think seriously about whether I wanted to continue working there.

    3. Lizzo*

      +1 for Signal, though Discord may be a better interface for larger group chit-chat. Signal wins as far as privacy, though. One of my groups that focuses on a sensitive topic left WhatsApp for Signal so that we can be completely disconnected from Zuck.

      1. Katie Impact*

        One option for the OP if they want a group chat with a Discord-like interface but better privacy and security would be to self-host a Mattermost instance, although that might be deeper into the weeds than they want to go in terms of technical know-how.

    4. Librarian beyond the Shelves We Know*

      There’s a Discord alternative called Revolt that is free and open source, if you’re looking for something similar without the big tech issues.

      If you use Signal, you can have multiple channels with different topics and different deletion rules, but it’s not as aggregated as Revolt or Discord. You can make folders via the app to put specific chats in, though.

      1. Elizabeth*

        I’m on discord, and I really like it for groups that are already established, people I’ve met through gaming or things like that. I don’t really see how it could work to attract new people to grow a group tho?

        I’m getting worse with technology every year, I swear, and I’m not sure if I’ve missed a feature or maybe one of the other platforms would be better?

        1. Grith*

          No, I think you’re exactly right. Discord is great for hosting established communities, but it has zero additional value in terms of finding and attracting new people to those communities. For that, you need something more akin to traditional social media where you can find people and link them to your Discord – and for me, the best balance of “OK morals” and “big enough to add value” is BlueSky.

    5. Name Anxiety*

      If you’re not worried about Privacy privacy, just wanting a members-only discussion list, you might check out Google groups. It works basically like an email distribution list, but if members have a Google account they can also access the home page where you could link to shared documents.

      1. Bookish*

        We moved our listserv off Google groups because it fairly recently required all members to have a gmail account. So far, Gaggle has been a good alternative.

      2. DJ Abbott*

        Having just dealt with Google refusing to give me directions online and trying to force me to use their maps app, I would not start anything new with Google right now.

    6. Kleiner Leiter (MinorTeamLead)*

      LW5 might be interested in sites, which are not run by big companys, owned by some rich guy, who may turn proto-fascist any time. So I recommend the fediverse aka mastodon. Having a brief look into the instance list I found mastodon.art where movie proffesionals might feel welcome.
      (check joinmastodon.org for more info)

      1. Third wheel in the office*

        Also Friendica is fediverse and may have the functionality they’re looking for (not used it myself, but it’s positioned as a facebook alternative)

        1. Librarian beyond the Shelves We Know*

          DMs aren’t encrypted across most social media sites, to be fair. Twitter and Bluesky, for example, also allow administrators to access them.

      4. Lab Snep*

        As someone who has dealt with mastodon.art and over moderation there, that is an instance I do not recommend.

        It works for some people, but it did not work for almost everyone I know.

        1. Wayward Sun*

          I gave up on Mastodon due to constant demands that practically everything be hidden behind content warning tags. My wife was chastized for posting a photo of her cat without hiding it behind “CW: Cat eye contact.”

    7. English Rose*

      This may seem a bit old school, but look at LinkedIn groups as well. They can be set to private and easy to moderate, with the ability to share documents and other media.

          1. Rex Libris*

            Just in general, if you’re worried about privacy and data mining, neither Microsoft nor Google are significant improvements over Facebook.

    9. MJ*

      Some other options:

      Google Groups – can be set to private, works like email, files can be shared, free. Not the slickest interface in the world but very reliable.

      Slack – free plan should probably do the job. Pretty user-friendly. Allows file sharing. Messages disappear after 90 days on the free plan so you’ll need a paid plan if you want to maintain an archive.

      1. Beany*

        I’ve had issues with Google Groups in the past, where we were using it more as a mailing list — some people’s notifications just vanished into the void, no matter what they did. I don’t know whether the googlegroups domain got blacklisted by their own mailserver or what.

        We ended up moving to groups.io, which has much of the same capabilities, and has been hassle-free.

      2. AL*

        I’m also a Slack fan – Discord is too chaotic and informal for my taste when dealing with professional/semi-professional stuff. Slack feels more like a workspace than a hangout space.

        2. Academic Physics*

          I agree, Slack has a much better threads capability than Discord. I really appreciate the ability to nest the conversations // resources in threads. However, I 100% prefer Discord for my friends because the calls are quite good!

      3. Rex Libris*

        I’m surprised at everyone suggesting Google as an alternative. They are literally the only company on the planet as invested in anti-privacy data profiteering as Facebook.

    10. Minimal Pear*

      I’m a member of an org that uses Discourse for forums and I really recommend it. Definitely a learning curve (there are still a few things I haven’t figured out) but as someone who used to be an active forum user and really missed them when social media took over, I’m loving it.

      1. one of the many librarians*

        Seconding the recommendation for Discourse, if you have at least a couple of members who will take on the setup, maintenance, and eventual upgrades. I’m active in both Discourse and Discord communities and familiar with Slack; I think for a long-running group who have complex (paragraph or more) conversations, Discourse is great.

      2. Chris Upchurch*

        I’ll add another endorsement of Discourse. For someone coming from Facebook groups, Discourse is probably a closer analogy than Discord is. It has posts with comment/reply threads rather than channels with ongoing chats.

        For those of us who have been around the internet for way too long, you can think of Discourse as being the descendent of old school forum software, while Discord comes from a lineage that goes back to IRC.

      3. Mina Murray*

        I’m also very fond of Discourse! I agree with Chris Upchurch that if you’re familiar with old-school forums, it will be comfortable for you.

    11. DJ Abbott*

      Facebook is not much fun anymore. My friends and I have always used it to announce/ plan social events and stay in touch..
      Ever since election season, people aren’t posting fun stuff and it’s cluttered with not just ads, but solicitations to join groups or watch videos, as well as the depressing political stuff. It looks dark and gloomy, and I have to push myself a little to check it twice a week.
      Whereas this site is my bread and butter, I love it. <3

      1. WillowSunstar*

        Also, many organizations have rules about talking about controversial subjects on FB, so then you have to go through the trouble of setting up a fake account just to do that stuff. Plus I’m sure Zuck has access to our IP addresses, which can eventually tie into a real physical location, correct?

        1. Gatomon*

          Technically every website has access to your IP address, you can’t connect without the site knowing how to return the information to you. Imagine sending a letter requesting a brochure, but not including your return address. :) Geolocation is usually only down to the city level though. To actually tie the IP address to a particular person (or realistically, the account holder of the internet service), they would need to supeona the ISP for that information.

          That said, phone apps often return lots of highly- specific information that might allow Facebook or other companies to identify you anyway. If you open Google Maps on a desktop, it probably just starts on your general city. If you open it as an app on your phone, it’ll likely zoom in right to where you are.

    12. Person from the Resume*

      I had a person try to get discord group going for a book club, and I found it too complicated and no one really joined or participated which becomes self-fulfilling because why log in to check if nothing is happening.

      The owner was barely on FB and was in discord for other things, but I think you might have trouble getting people to move to a new app. OTOH if you bring a core group, others may follow you for the discussion.

    13. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Discord is great for this kind of thing. I’m a member of a 500+ member sports group that has a regular need for discussion and planning meetups and is very active on our discord. We have a huge range of tech skills and social media norms in our membership. Discord has worked beautifully for us – but it does require an admin to set it up in a way that organizes discussions clearly, and some ongoing moderation helps a lot. For example, we have a “gear” thread and an “advocacy issues related to our sport” thread and a “newbies go here for basic questions and advice” thread and a thread for each meetup and a thread for certain festivals etc. Anyone can create a sub-thread to start a discussion within those categories. The transition/learning phase when we switched from FB took a couple months but now it is widely loved. We have probably 5 new discussions a day and significant engagement on each discussion.

    14. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I like Discord a lot and think it’s worth learning to use it. I belong to a group of writers and editors who have a thriving community going on there that has lasted for years, and I think it lends itself to good discussion and online events.

    15. NCA*

      One thing to keep in mind – Discord is more like an old IRC system than the discrete posts-and-replies of Facebook. If streams of unrelated conversations that jump regularly from topic to topic work for you, then Discord is fine. If more of a post-and-replies system works better, then a private forum or Reddit might be a better option.

      Discord does NOT work well for me – the notification system is a mess, the general chat I’ve found generally chaotic and overwhelming, and trying to keep on any one topic that isn’t major enough for it’s own subchannel is fleeting at best. I’ve found myself personally withdrawing from my social groups that are relying more on Discord, and engaging more with those going to private forums/private Reddits, because the latter has more separate topic discussions.

      1. Dara*

        Discord has had a threading function now where you can create a thread/offshoot discussion in any channel if you want to have a focused discussion about a topic that comes up rather than having it among a bunch of cross-talk in a channel with people talking about multiple things at once.

      2. Wayward Sun*

        Discord started as a desktop voice/text chat service for gamers, and its shows. The vibe is very gamer-centric and the mobile app kind of sucks.

    16. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think Discord/Slack would probably be good options for this. I kind of long for the days of the old school forums, which also would have been a great option for this, but I don’t know that anyone bothers to start new ones anymore since there’s more setup involved than just starting a Discord.

    17. NotAnotherManager!*

      The only reason I have a Facebook account is that a number of my children’s activities only post info or photos there. It’s really awful – I have zero content on it, and my feed is a mess of spam and clickbait. My teenager needed a Facebook messenger account for one of their clubs, and I was horrified to see their feed included a lot of scantily clad people advertising for dates – they are underage, and it says that in their profile.

    18. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I’ll second Signal if you want a slightly simpler Slack-like experience, Discord if you want something more full-featured and interactive, and if you want a safe, less commercialized place for email discussions like Yahoo or Google Groups, Groups.io.

      1. Amy*

        I think Signal is more of a replacement for things like Messenger/Whatsapp/Telegram etc than for Slack – Signal is pretty much just a chat app that supports individual or group chats. Slack and Discord are more robust for community discussion and sharing because you can create channels and threads for different topics and subtopics.

    19. GenX Internet Nerd*

      I was thinking that running an old school type web forum would probably be the most secure way to chat with people in the industry without being on a service run by a major company that might do things like train AI on your chat or sell user data. You’d have more control over membership and privacy than on Discord or a social media site like Bluesky, and not be at the whims of an instance runner on a power trip like Mastodon. (I love Mastodon but that’s the one drawback.)

      The problem is I’ve never done this and don’t know how difficult it would be. Signal is a very secure alternative to Discord if you just want to run a few group chats and people don’t mind signing up with a phone number (that they never have to show anyone). Because it’s end to end encrypted there’s no chance of your conversations being used to train AI and other than the phone number it doesn’t collect data on users.

      If you really want to go old school, IRC still exists and there’s a few mobile IRC clients still out there.

    20. JMC*

      Bluesky is great but they don’t have groups. I’m starting with Signal so I like it so far I think? There is also a new app coming out called Neptune, should be available in a few months. I am not sure if they support groups though.

    21. Strive to Excel*

      I haven’t used it enough to speak to its features, but I know a friend of mine in the medical field uses Signal for work chats. That speaks reasonably well of its encryption abilities.

    23. I Have RBF*

      You can also get a free Slack instance, you just won’t have the ability to look at stuff older than a few months. In addition to Discord, there are still old fashioned forums (php, require constant administration and upgrades) that you can use. There’s also Dreamwidth, that is like the old LJ but without the Russian ownership and ads.

    24. LL*

      I think Discord is the best option for this, even though I don’t like it. I don’t think Bluesky or Signal mimic Facebook very well. (not that they’re trying to, just pointing out that that they don’t have the same features that Facebook has)

    25. Thegs*

      Throwing my opinion into the ring for recommendations, if you’re tech savvy and can self-host, I’ve always liked Mattermost for internal discussion boards. It’s free and open source and the paid features are pretty much entirely just enterprise stuff, things like SAML authentication or AD/LDAP group membership integration. It’s a bit of a big lift to not only self-host but also convince people to make an account that exists only in your server though, which is why “free” services like Facebook, Reddit, or Discord have grown so popular.

  5. Raida*

    1. My boss is great in some ways but is he crossing lines?

    The standing-too-close-thing is the easiest way to clearly make space:
    step back. Accentuate leaning back your head to look at him (thanks height difference!) and make is clear you are more comfortable at a distance, one step away is completely normal.
    If he’s doing it while you are seated, you have to say “Hey, back up a bit there [boss]” and if need be then use the word “looming” to indicate You Are Too Close Matey!

    1. Ginger Cat Lady*

      His response to this pushback will be telling. If he apologizes and stops doing it, that’s reassuring. If it keeps happening because he keeps “forgetting”, tries to claim it’s necessary, or tells you that you’re overreacting, that’s a huge red flag. HUGE.

      1. Mockingbird*

        That part. You could just remind him of his female family member and it’s causing him to give you extra attention, but it doesn’t matter why he’s doing it if it makes you uncomfortable. Give yourself more space, and if he’s creepy about it, start stepping on his toes, hard, when he’s that close.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          I would suggest saying something like “you remind me of my grandfather when you do that” serves as a good reminder to the boss of the huge age gap, emphasising just how inappropriate he is being. A young intern managed to shut down our boss very effectively like that. She offered to help do something on his phone, explaining that she’d done the same for her grandfather, and he was really annoyed – the age gap would have been more like father daughter.

          1. ecnaseener*

            Wait, where are you getting a huge age gap from in this letter? All I see is a height gap, which – as a fully-grown 5’2″ person, I can confirm – doesn’t mean anything about LW’s age!

            1. Hlao-roo*

              There’s nothing explicit about ages in the letter, but this question:

              Could I just seem like a child to him, paternal affection type stuff?

              implies (to me, at least) that there is some sort of age gap, with the manager older and the letter-writer younger.

              1. Just say non*

                I remember being shocked to discover, when I was in my 20s, that men my father’s age did not consider our relationship to be one between people of different generations. I discovered that they considered me to be someone they could hit on, ew!

            2. Elitist Semicolon*

              But folks often assume an age gap if they are significantly taller than someone else, particularly when the shorter person is a woman/female-presenting. As A Short, I’ve had people assume that I’m with my mother, not my bestie, even though we’re both greying and she’s not significantly older than I am – just 6″ taller.

      2. Joron Twiner*

        Yes, if you still want to assume goodwill on your boss’s part: someone who hasn’t noticed that their crush is becoming obvious, or that they have been accidentally making someone uncomfortable, they will be embarrassed when they realize this. They will back off and not get close to you anymore. This is a mortifying social experience for normal people.

        Someone who continues to do this is not doing so by accident. It means they don’t respect physical or professional boundaries, and they are not safe to be around.

        So you don’t need to be “objectively right” or know what’s in your boss’s heart. It is enough that you feel uncomfortable, and if that is not respected, it is enough for you to raise the issue with HR or someone higher.

        1. Jopestus*

          AND if he is of the type that is respectful to people in general but not to ones who catches their eye, he is of the most dangerous kind of people. That is the kind that seems to get away with anything with impunity since nobody believes the victim.

          -> Clear boundaries and if he follows them, all is good. If not, RUN FOR THE HILLS!

        2. BattleCat*

          I wouldn’t be assuming goodwill personally. I can’t believe that anyone could “accidentally” stand so close behind someone that they’re basically touching, unless they’re in a mosh pit or on a really crowded commuter train. I’d try it out yourself OP (on someone willing to be experimented on!) so you can see how deliberate and boundary-crossing someone need to be to get into that position.

          1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

            I could see a person on the spectrum making that mistake (I have similar problems with the volume of my voice). If it persists after an explicit reminder, that’s a bit different.

          2. Shinespark*

            This is why I appreciate Alison’s advice focusing on behaviours instead of guessing his true intentions. Maybe he’s awkward. Maybe he’s creepy. Maybe he’s both, but thinks he’s being subtle and will give up from shame the instant he suspects you’re on to him.

            You don’t have to assume goodwill on his part to give one chance to de-esecalate, where you treat this like *of course* he wouldn’t mean to make you uncomfortable and *of course* he won’t do that again, *right*? If he’s genuinely apologetic and knocks it off, great. But the subtext of “I see what you’re doing and it’s not cool” is there either way.

          3. Jules the 3rd*

            Well, don’t forget the whole ‘different cultures have different personal space bubbles’; Europeans / Asians will essentially ‘chase’ Americans around the room as everyone tries to get into their comfort zones.

            Again, this is why being explicit is helpful – his reaction will tell LW whether he’s obtuse or creepy.

            LW – my honest take is that he’s interested and is deploying “the wife” either to remind himself, or to disarm you. Either way, deliberate distancing is a good place to start. But *trust yourself* when you’re assessing his actions and reactions. You’ve noticed A Thing, you are testing The Thing, believe the outcomes of the test.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              I got “Maybe He’s Not Creepy” bingo: just awkward, on the spectrum, and “it’s his culture”.

              LW, you aren’t required to give your boss 200 chances before concluding that he’s actually creepy. He’s already making you uncomfortable or you wouldn’t be writing in.

          4. MB*

            I agree. The constantly affirming comments are to make you feel cordial toward him, to pave the way as a buffer for planned outrageous behavior. The space violation is deliberate – part of grooming behavior, so to speak. Gets you used to a violation, so when a bigger one comes, it’s easier for him. At best, your boss is getting his jollies off of the physical proximity (udge)-mentioning the wife is just an attempt to whitewash the behavior. I would not be surprised if he takes it further. WWID? Neutral resting face, “I need some space, can you turn the computer around?” or “You’re too close for me to be comfortable.” Names the issue clearly without outright shouting ‘creeper!’.

        3. DJ Abbott*

          It might be all nonverbal. If OP moves away, it will be what he does. Does he keep moving closer when she moves away? Or does he stay in his original spot and never get close to her again? That’s what will tell her if it’s accidental or not.
          If he keeps doing it, then say something. If not, no need to embarrass him and make the relationship more awkward.

          1. bamcheeks*

            There is a famous thing about the personal space differences between different cultures, and rooms full of Northern Europeans backed up against the wall by Middle Eastern colleagues, because they keep naturally and unconsciously stepping forward to close the gap every time a Northern European steps back to open it up. (I have experienced this in person, with a very lovely Lebanese colleague and friend, who stands close enough that my whole Northern English nervous system starts screaming, and who will absolutely step forward again if I step back. She doesn’t do it in professional spaces because she’s lived here long enough to be aware of it and she’s deliberately tolerating what feels like “weird distant froideur” to her, but when we’re out as friends and we’re both relaxed, we both revert to our cultural types!)

            I think this is why it’s worth naming it as well as just moving back: if the boss is from a culture (including a micro-culture) which has a much smaller personal space bubble, it absolutely can be unconscious. If you’ve stepped back AND asked for more personal space and he still keeps doing it, then that’s a very reasonable point to go to HR so they can advocate for your personal space more robustly.

            (Though I am also going to note that if it was something like this, he’d be doing it to nearly everyone, not just LW.)

            1. Nativefloridian*

              they keep naturally and unconsciously stepping forward to close the gap every time a Northern European steps back to open it up

              I once addressed this non-verbally by stepping back with one foot while leaving the other in place so they physically couldn’t put their feet there. I lost a couple inches in height but got almost a foot in distance.

            2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

              I agree that if it’s cultural, he’d be doing it with more than just the OP, unless he perceives (rightly or wrongly) OP to also be part of his culture while the rest of the workers are not.

              I think it’s far, far more likely that he’s being a creep, but I suppose there’s a minor chance that it’s instead a mis-directed “this person is from my locally non-majority culture, which both means that we share the same lack of expectation of personal space and that I’ll try very hard to help them succeed in the local business culture, which is harder for those of our culture to do so they need a leg up”. I suspect that the LW would have mentioned if they both did actually share a cultural background where people expect less personal space, and would have mentioned it if he also was always making references to cultural things that they don’t actually share but he keeps assuming that they do, so I wouldn’t put the chances as very high on that.

            3. FromCanada*

              I experienced this once at work, and when I named it, he was really good at adjusting. He did do it to everyone, not just me – but I needed someone to point that out before I noticed because my default as a woman was it was creepy.

            4. LingNerd*

              I am skeptical that it’s cultural. If it’s cultural, I would expect some more like “why is this guy acting like we’re good friends” and not “why can I feel the movement of his chest when he breathes”

              Because from my understanding, the cultural sense of appropriate physical distance isn’t just one thing. There’s different distances for strangers, friendly acquaintances, friends, and people in your most intimate circle (romantic partner, very close friends, family). And while I don’t have too much familiarity with what the various distances are, I think a distance the width of a finger is far too close for colleagues in most if not all cultures

            5. Joron Twiner*

              In my experience, the cultural space bubble dance happens when two people are talking to each other face to face, or side to side. I have never seen it happen where two people are interacting back to front, with two exceptions: lining up in queues (the appropriate distance between people can vary), and in temporary crowds (at a train, concert, dance floor, etc). Neither of those apply here.

              Also many cultures with close personal space have different rules for how men and women should interact–speaking with your same-gender friend may be closer than how a man should stand near a female colleague.

              And there’s no indication that that cultural difference is in play in this instance anyway, or that it would change how OP should respond.

      4. sometimeswhy*

        He might also start making fun or trying to ‘neg’ the OP for a desire for personal space, just blow past it like it was unreasonable all the while announcing the violation of personal space and then doing it. Mine did.

        This whole thing is not just a red flag, it is fluttering pennants around a race track. The other thing that really stood out to me was making sure they’re in daily contact even if one of them is off.

        Even the things listed as potentially mitigating factors are ALSO red flags. Bragging less openly about OP1 could be because he’s trying to control mentionitis. Mentioning his wife in mixed company can be combined cover (“oh Chadly? He talks about his wife ALL the time. There’s no way there’s anything inappropriate going on.”) and to telegraph to OP1 what they’re getting themself into should they decide to lean back into him one of these days.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          Yeah, the daily contact is over the line. And your last paragraph is mostly correct – they *could be* red flags.

          If I were LW, I’d distance, and mention it (eg, ‘feeling a little claustrophobic, let me step over here’ or ‘I am going on a screen diet this weekend, so no emails or texts’) without mentioning why and see how he reacts. Disappointment or trying to persuade me not to do it would mean they were definitely red flags.

    2. Artemesia*

      Men who arrange the computer so you have to lean on him or he is breathng down your neck — doing that on purpose. Very little chance he isn’t perving on you. but of course try asking for space or moving the laptop to ‘let me get a little space here’ and see how he reacts. but this is classic creep behavior.

    3. Butterfly Counter*

      My natural inclination when something like this happens is less verbal.

      Basically, I get “ultra-professional.” I smile less and laugh less, but maintain a bit of warm politeness. In some ways, I actually become more deferential. I acknowledge the power difference because we are not equals. In a way, that really underlines how inappropriate the behavior can be for some bosses and it becomes less “accidental flirting” and more where they have to make a decision to be overly friendly.

      Then, if they keep pressing and trying to ignore the space I’m creating, I get less warm, but stay completely professional. Luckily, it’s not been an issue for some time, but I got really, really good at cooling the vibes between me and potentially-inappropriate bosses/managers. I’ve also been really lucky that that this strategy has always worked for me.

  6. Nicole*

    as a diabetic I want to echo Alison’s advice. Unless they’ve lived a very different life than I have, they have heard multiple comments about the needles and other necessities of being diabetic. (including strangers at the grocery store, gym, etc.) personally even knowing it’s coming from a good place I would feel immediately defensive in a similar situation – the options are limited and all bad typically (wait until I’m actively sick to take medication? don’t eat at all during the day?) I think if there’s other ways this worker isn’t following workplace norms it could be brought up in that context, but even then I’d hesitate.

    1. Strive to Excel*

      I stuck my foot firmly in my mouth once with my diabetic friend. I sometimes use “oh gross” as an alternative to “that sucks” or “I’m sorry to hear that” in casual conversation. Well, she was telling me that her pump was broken and she was stuck injecting manually as she was prepping her injection. It took a second for my brain to realize that I’d just said “oh gross” right as she was injecting herself and how that probably came across.

      Luckily she is a lovely person with a good sense of humor and accepted my very scrambling apology a moment later!

    2. Lydia*

      The one thing I have never said out loud, but maybe should, to the comment, “Oh, I could never be diabetic. I hate needles” is “You’d get over that real fast if it’s the difference between living and dying.” Do people think I LOOOOOOVE needles and that’s why I decided at 2 years old to develop a life-threatening disease I will have to manage my entire life?

      I once encountered a Navy doctor when I was in high school who wisely (ha) told me I have a higher propensity to become an intravenous drug user because I am less squeamish about needles. The actual trauma I have endured from my actual illness as well as from humans is astounding.

  7. Daria grace*

    #5 discord is great for discussions but not so great for sharing files. It caps the upload size for people without paid accounts pretty low

    1. Dom*

      This is true, but you can still share links to files you’ve uploaded elsewhere (e.g. Google Drive) and Discord will embed images or videos that you’ve hosted on another site (such as Imgur), if you put the link in a message. My main concern with Discord would be that the permissions controls aren’t very friendly if you’re coming from somewhere like Facebook, and messing it up so anyone can join (or so some people can’t see important channels) is a real risk.

      1. LazyBoot*

        For the permissions thing on Discord, I suggest making heavy use “view server as role” option to verify things work as expected.

    2. Ineffable Bastard*

      Tumblr now has communities too, public and private, but tbh I don’t know if there’s a limit for uploading files

  8. Kotow*

    LW2: I say this as someone who is so very afraid of needles that throughout 2021 I truly couldn’t look at the numerous closeups of people getting the Covid vaccine, let alone get it myself (it would have genuinely resulted in a panic attack, fainting, or both and medical professionals are unfortunately anything but professional when that happens in my experience). So I absolutely would not want to see this at work! But I don’t see how you can ask her to stop. In general, I’d assume that someone doing so at her desk needs to do it there–and honestly I wouldn’t trust a public restroom to be sanitary enough and absolutely understand why someone wouldn’t be comfortable there.

    FWIW, if I were a coworker and it occurred at predictable times, I would either find reasons not to look (look away, focus on something else, schedule meetings at different times, etc.) or excuse myself (I do this when my mother in law injects insulin at restaurants). All of these can be done with minimal to no commentary. If I were a client I’d look down and not make eye contact, or try to excuse myself for a few minutes. I wouldn’t say anything about being afraid of needles because it’s not taken seriously and not even necessary to do. So I’d leave it alone. There are almost always workarounds for someone who truly can’t look!

    1. ghost_cat*

      FWIW, I have donated plasma over 200 times and I still have to look away when they are preparing to poke me. I think I’d be okay with an insulin injection as they typically involve a pen, but I get being squeamish!

      1. Dog momma*

        I’m a retired nurse,42yrs + ICU and not squeamish at all
        (unless it involves eyes), so gave thousands of injections ,drew blood, inserted IVs. and I can’t watch them drawing my own labs, putting in an IV. It got worse as I got older lol.

    2. Account*

      This is good perspective! And of course you’re right— the phobic person can simply pretend to check their phone for a second (injecting insulin is a way quicker process than getting a vaccine) or otherwise get through the experience, much more easily than the diabetic relocating to another area.

    3. Charlotte Lucas*

      I hate needles, too, and I hated those visuals.

      But I hate the idea that my coworker might not be able to take care of a serious medical problem more.

      In a small space, there are ways to give the illusion of privacy, and one of those ways is to turn away and let someone do what they need without you watching them.

    4. Nomic*

      I’m a T1 diabetic (40+ years) and I still can’t watch when they draw blood every 3 months. I can give injections with no issue though.

      One trick a doctor taught me was that if your hips are higher than you head you literally can’t pass out from a blood draw. I now always put my feet up for draws; for injections like vaccines I just look away.

    5. Tangerina Warbleworth*

      Hi, Kotow. Specific to your point, and not the huge debate raging in the first comment, I am a T1 who used to do multiple daily injections before getting an insulin pump. I didn’t say a single damn thing about it to any coworkers ever, and I’m pretty sure non of them caught on. I would take my pen from my briefcase and set the amount, then (holding it down by my leg so it wasn’t in line of sight), uncap it, press to my thigh until done, then remove, recap and put it back in the briefcase. The entire operation would be done in less than ten seconds. I get that if you knew, you’d be squeamish, but chances are all the T1 in OP’s question has to do is just jab himself through the shirt instead of lifting it, and no one would be the wiser.

  9. Raida*

    2. Coworker injecting medication at their desk

    If part of your responsibilities is teaching them office norms, then tell them “I’m fine with the injections, you may work with people at other times and places where they are not okay with it, don’t assume that because we’re cool here that it’ll always be all right. Could be baring skin, could be hygiene, could be ick, could be ‘that’s a private medical thing so do it in private’ but you’re likely to run into people in your career where it won’t be a given. If it is an issue then be *gracious* and offer understanding, not combativeness or any mind-ur-own-business mentality. You’re far more likely to successfully negotiate not having to go to the EOFT or bathrooms or an office if you come at the subject that way.”

    And separately “A rule of thumb – don’t pull up your shirt with Clients around, and don’t inject in front of them. We can as a team figure out any squeamishness or hygiene concerns within the office, but we can’t manage how a client feels.”

      1. LaminarFlow*

        +1 to this. Diabetics who need to inject insulin need to be able to inject when the need arises. Telling someone that they are fine to tend to their injection at this company, in approved ways, but it might not be ok at other companies just seems like overkill. I’ve known & worked with several T1 diabetics through the years, and they have all wanted to get the injection over with as quickly and unobtrusively as possible.

        Also, I believe T1 diabetes is covered by ADA laws, so telling someone how and when to manage their condition could result in some non-ideal consequences that companies employ HR professionals for.

        1. Miette*

          Also-also, if you’re involved in teaching this person workplace norms, you could be perceived as representing the company in this, which to my mind opens up a huge can of worms.

        2. JMC*

          and what about type 2 diabetics? Am I not covered under the ADA? I would be for other things granted but I’m curious about this.

            1. JMC*

              ok well that listed just diabetes not specifically type 1 or 2 which is good, that’s the way to do it. Type 1 or type 2 doesn’t matter it’s all the same disease.

      2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        Yes. This person has probably lived with diabetes for years and have already heard all of this.

      3. LL*

        absolutely. OP should say nothing. I’m sure this person has heard stuff like this throughout their life. They need insulin injections.

    2. Cat*

      Diabetes is a disease that is covered under ADA. Just as it would not be appropriate to tell someone who uses a mobility device how to use it in the office or around clients because of “ick” or how the clients feel, don’t tell a diabetic how to manage their diabetes. Restrooms are also dirty and should not be suggested as appropriate places to take insulin.

    3. SAS*

      If you would not have this conversation with someone who takes a pill at their desk, I don’t think it’s appropriate to have it with someone whose medication is via injection. (And I say this as someone with a severe needle phobia)

    4. Earlk*

      I think Alison was spot on with just not mentioning it. You’ve got to assume that the time they did it with clients they literally couldn’t wait. If I was in a business meeting I’d far rather witness someone inject insulin than see them fall in to a coma.

    5. JustKnope*

      Ahh no, you should not say all of these things to a diabetic coworker. “I’m okay with your disease but the rest of the world might not be” is crappy. You could Maybe, MAYBE say “would it be possible to step out when clients are here so you aren’t lifting your shirt in front of them” but that’s literally it.

    6. Blue Pen*

      Please don’t say this. I’m not sure if you wrote extra to give context, but this is so heavy-handed and patronizing. Although the co-worker may be newer to professional offices, they’re not children. They have a medical need, and I’m certain the appropriate accommodations can be made on their part and the employer’s.

    7. Metal Gru*

      As a client, I wouldn’t be concerned about needles, skin showing etc as I understand that this is a normal part of managing diabetes. However I would be a bit concerned that they didn’t get any other opportunity to do it (break times etc – how time sensitive is it?) and then it becomes an emergency and has to be done during the client visit.

      1. metadata minion*

        It can be very time-sensitive — not “I must do this in the next 30 seconds or I’ll die”, but if a client meeting is an hour long, that can be too long to wait.

        1. anonny*

          It probably won’t kill me to have high levels for an hour, but I know it can make me feel irritable and unfocused. And constantly trying to supress a potty dance. Which is definitely not how you’d want me in a client meeting.

    8. CatDude*

      It’s not a ‘private medical thing’. It’s a basic fact of living with diabetes. We need to normalize it.

    9. Cordelia*

      yeah, no. You are not being especially “cool” by “allowing” them to inject at their desk, it’s a medical need that they are fulfilling. Clients and coworkers will have to manage their “ick” at the sight of someone’s disability. The amount of skin bared is minimal, just look away for a few seconds. And as for hygiene – watching someone inject does not present a hygiene risk to the observers, but injecting in a public restroom certainly presents a risk to the person themself.
      And if I was a client I would far rather wait a few seconds for the person to do this essential thing at their desk than to wait however long it takes them to go to a bathroom or different area to do so.

    10. STLBlues*

      This is terrible advice. Please never say any of this to anyone who is diabetic. This is so condescending and ableist I almost don’t have words.

      “Could be ick”? Get over it. It’s medication.
      “Could be hygiene”? I’d imagine the person injecting themselves is the most aware of the hygiene implications, thanks.

    11. NothingIsLittle*

      This is absolutely not an appropriate response and if I overheard, let’s say, the person who manages interns say this to a diabetic intern I would be at HR within the hour demanding they be removed from managing that person. Yes, there are people who are uncomfortable with the reality of injected medications, but that doesn’t trump the medical necessity of the injection.

      “Don’t be combative about your right to use a necessary medical device,” is bonkers. This is an ADA issue. They are legally allowed to inject a necessary medication. “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar,” is really not an appropriate response in this case.

    12. Worldwalker*

      “Don’t do something necessary for your actual survival, that is totally harmless to other people, because it might squick someone. Instead, go to the most unsanitary place in the building, where you may contract a life-threatening infection, so you don’t offend people’s fee-fees.”

      Is that really what you want to say? I really don’t think so, but that’s how it comes across.

    13. Alpacas Are Not Dairy Animals*

      Clients aren’t more important than a co-worker’s life or health, and should probably be aware that other humans are, well, human, with skin and medical needs.

    14. Jennifer Strange*

      Absolutely not. This is a medical NECESSITY. To be clear, I think it would be fine to suggest the employee give a quick heads up if they’re in the middle of a conversation and maybe turn so their back is to the other person, but that’s about the limit of it.

    15. Nomic*

      The Americans With Disabilities Act would have a lot to say about this conversation. Honestly I don’t know where the line exactly is, but I suspect it does somewhere along the way.

    16. pinkponyclub*

      In the UK this wording could well be deemed harassment of a disabled person and would not go down well. You’re implying a person with disabilities has to perform a begging dance to get what’s legally their right, and what’s necessary for safety.

    17. Lenora Rose*

      Seems excessive when “If there’s a client here, can you turn around or say excuse me first?” is literally the sum total of what is even reasonable to ask.

      Nothing in the letter suggested the diabetic was at all combative and needs to be lectured on being gracious.

    18. LingNerd*

      All of this comes across as telling someone how to manage their disability.

      If I were in a position of helping them navigate workplace norms, I would only go so far as saying, “I know that you’re diabetic and sometimes have to actively manage your condition while you’re here. Since you’re new to the work world, I want to be sure that you’re comfortable advocating for yourself and asking for accomodations if you need them.”

      And maybe let them know that the fridges get periodically cleaned out, so they should put a note on their insulin if they store it in the fridge at work

  10. Yellow lab*

    Re: insulin, I disagree that this person has a “right now” emergency. People confuse the need for insulin — to regulate high blood sugar, with the need for glucose — to regulate dangerously low blood sugar. It absolutely is potentially a seconds matter emergency if your blood sugar is too low. But high blood sugar, while of course critical to address, does not have the same urgency. That would take hours to develop into a medical emergency. Anyhow, this probably wouldn’t change the answer but I do take issue with the notion that this must be done right at this very moment.

    1. Daria grace*

      If someone has a few minutes between meetings, it may not be appropriate to wait until the next meeting is over to inject.

    2. Lime green Pacer*

      If you don’t inject immediately, it is very easy to to get sidetracked and miss the injection entirely. Low blood sugar will kill you quickly, but high blood sugar will kill you slowly, via heart disease, kidney damage, etc.

      1. Anon for this*

        Thank you–I am extremely food-sensitive but not as insulin-sensitive as I ought to be. I’ve been on a pump for a good long while now, but when I was using syringes, an injection delayed possibly the entire length of a meeting would have led to needing someone to drive me either home or to the hospital.

        (That said I am very good at injecting under the table, and I always ask coworkers if they’re squeamish about needles or blood. No need to have anyone faint.)

      3. Banana Pyjamas*

        Because the guidance for high blood sugar is to seek medical attention if it remains elevated for two or more hours. Meanwhile, if blood sugar is low, you treat immediately and seek medical attention if it’s not rising after 20 minutes.

        1. JustKnope*

          Respectfully, it doesn’t sound like you know what you’re talking about or have lived experience with diabetes. If I sought medical attention in every instance you’re referring to, I would be hospitalized 24/7. Let’s trust that people with diabetes know how to manage their condition and are the experts in what needs to happen “right now” versus can wait 20-30 minutes for a meeting to end.

          1. Banana Pyjamas*

            Respectfully this is the guidance from my child’s endocrinologist. You’re right though, I manage at home first.

              1. Banana Pyjamas*

                Maybe? Those are the same wait times I was given for gestational diabetes. The only difference is the glucose levels we were directed to seek treatment at.

    4. JustKnope*

      Oh I really, really disagree with this. Your point is correct that low blood sugar emergencies are generally more time sensitive. But giving insulin at the correct time in relation to when I eat is critical. I have other reasons right now why I must keep very tight control of my blood sugars, and being able to inject insulin when I need it is a big part of that. I have a pump so I’m not injecting myself with a needle, but having to walk to a separate spot every time I give myself insulin is just not gonna happen.

      1. Guacamole Bob*

        My son has type 1, and I agree with this. It’s true that low blood sugar (can be) a “right now!” situation, and it’s true that it will take hours of delay before a failure to give insulin will lead to real problems in the moment. But overall good blood sugar control requires handling high blood sugar promptly, dosing with appropriate timing around eating, and is easier if you are able to dose frequently, or at least at the right moment.

        If this were a one-time event, then yes, it might make sense for the person to wait – if the person were giving a talk in front of a large audience or something and got a high blood sugar alert in the middle (though that should still be up to the person and not their colleagues). But we’re talking about everyday day-to-day management of diabetes, and it’s not reasonable for someone to sacrifice overall control of their blood sugar in this way.

    5. Aldvs*

      Injecting insulin may not be needed immediately to stop an emergency from happening, but if they don’t inject when it’s needed, there can be long-term impacts on their overall health. We shouldn’t be telling someone to risk their overall health because of perceived norms.

    6. anonny*

      I get pretty cranky, unfocused, and desperately in need of the toilet when my blood sugar gets too high. Maybe not a medical emergency, but it’ll be a worse look for the client meeting than me doing a quick injection.

    7. Betsey Bobbins*

      No, you will not die in the moment, but long term having high blood sugar has a cumulative impact on your body. I’m not going to risk my future vision or retaining my feet to make others comfortable by waiting while it reaches even higher levels before injecting. A quick heads up to those around if they are directly engaging with me when the need arises, or a discreet turn away, is sufficient to let me manage my insulin levels in a way that is best for me.

    9. Yeah.... Nope*

      Put a sock in it. My insulin injections need to be done in a very timely fashion based on my glucose readings. I’m not going to worsen my eyesight or my muscular control because of the ignorant assumptions of twits like you. I and my medical team will determine the circumstances that call for injections. You and the LW can butt out.

    10. Head Sheep Counter*

      I’m surprised at the commenters here. If you have a regular schedule for your insulin… it seems like that would be… regular… as in… predictable… as in… known in advance. That’s a them problem. I’m sure emergencies to arise but I don’t think the basic threshold should be everything is an emergency (as that implies a different level of disability and need for accommodation).

      1. Andromeda Carr*

        How much do you know about type one diabetes? Do you know more than the people who live with it?

        1. Head Sheep Counter*

          Enough to know that there’s modern medicine (pumps and the like) but also that everyone has a different adventure. I think its fine to have a learning curve about a diagnosis or a period where one is adjusting medication. But honestly it would alarming to know that someone was constantly in an emergency situation. The LW and their colleagues have client facing jobs. The reality is, that as part of that job, one needs to adapt to having clients. Some amount of planning or politeness is not an unreasonable ask.

          1. Andromeda Carr*

            You really think you are qualified to judge how someone deals with a medical condition you don’t have and have no reason to have learned about, ignoring all the information that people with the condition have provided in this discussion, including in this very thread?

            I’m impressed, if also appalled.

          2. Guacamole Bob*

            “Honestly, it would be alarming to know that someone was constantly in an emergency situation.”

            Yes, the moment-to-moment challenges of living with type 1 diabetes are pretty alarming, I agree. The extent to which you are just living on the edge of an emergency situation all the time is really hard to understand if you don’t live with the disease (or have a kid with it, like I do). Fund medical research!

      2. sylvia*

        T1D here. Lots of things impact blood sugars in ways that aren’t always predictable (like exercise, stress, illness, temperature, etc.) I might have a semi-regular schedule where I give myself insulin before meals, but I still need to monitor my blood sugar closely and give myself a correction dose for high blood sugar or urgently treat a low blood sugar, and being able to manage those situations quickly reduces their impact on my health.

        Being high or low can also affect my mood and physical abilities – I feel really sticky and gross when my blood sugar is high for long enough, even if it’s not a life-or-death emergency, and that will impact my work.

      3. Kathy L*

        If you’re eating at work you might need to inject-that’s just something that happens-especially if someone at work offers you food that you didn’t necessarily plan for in the morning (like unexpected donuts in the break room)

        For type 1 diabetes-in terms of the obtrusiveness/speed/visible skin showing when using the pen injectors you can see Ed Gamble use one if you search up the YouTube video “James Acaster & Ed Gamble Judge Posh Snacks | Snack Wars” at 8 minutes and 10 seconds into the video. (I’ll link it in a reply-but links don’t always go through)

        It’s very fast and pretty much in real time although they cut away at the actual moment of injection, but you can see it takes him less than a minute to set up the pen, inject, and put the pen away, and even though he lifts his shirt to inject a person viewing from the front wouldn’t really be able to see anything.

        You can see where it’s much easier/faster to just turn away from people and do this at your desk that try and walk and find another room that may or may not be available right when you need it

    11. PP*

      Yellow Lab, the person with the diabetes gets to determine the urgency!

      And no one else!

      That person literally has to live with the consequences.

    12. LL*

      Oh, ffs. This is a ridiculous response. The person with diabetes knows how to manage their disease, you don’t, you don’t get to make this judgment.

    13. Dancing Otter*

      @Yellow lab and @Head Sheep Counter, you are assuming the person has well-controlled diabetes. Also, that nothing else ever varies. Many things besides food intake affect blood sugar levels, as another commenter pointed out.
      However, not everyone IS well-controlled. My late mother was a “brittle” diabetic. A regular routine of scheduled insulin and oral medication did NOT keep her glucose levels within tolerable limits. She was not a good candidate for an insulin pump: not everyone is.
      When she needed more insulin, she both felt unwell and was noticeably altered. In fact, as her sugar went up, her mental state made it harder for her to recognize and treat the problem. (Or work effectively, or converse lucidly…) It happened at church once; she tried to tough it out until she got home; she ended up in the ER.
      So yes, high blood glucose CAN be an emergency for some patients.

  11. Queer Anon*

    LW5, you could look at groups.io. The free version does have limitations on total file storage space and number of members, but it meets your three criteria. It works through email (though people can also post directly from the site), and I find it’s better for discussions with longer messages than Discord or Signal.

      1. Greyhound*

        I don’t think LW was being deliberately ageist (more reporting on her own level of comfort), but I agree it does grate. I’m an early 1950s baby, and once had to explain to a 20 something colleague who was astonished at my ability to use computers that I’d been using them when she was a baby. I’ve had people ask me if I know what YouTube is and assume I can’t use internet banking. I got asked in a big electronics and entertainment store (JB Hifi for Australians) whether my son had sent me in to buy a piece of computer gaming equipment, which managed to be both ageist and sexist. It gets very annoying.

        There are lots of good alternative social media platforms, discord being one of them.

        1. Worldwalker*

          I’m a bit younger than you, but I get the same thing. The other day I had a chipper young cashier ask if I needed help using the POS at the self-checkout. I was sick (though I didn’t know it yet) and in a bad mood so I actually said what I was thinking: “I’ve been using this stuff since before your parents met each other.”

          Some people get the idea that other people stopped learning when they were the age the person making the assumptions currently is (I assume they themselves intend to never learn anything again after today) and therefore haven’t learned anything since, say, 1980. They’re wrong. And need to be called out on it

          1. Glengarry Glenn Close*

            I don’t think the cashier needs to be called out for trying to help a customer, but I realize I’m just getting a snippet of the incident

        2. i like hound dogs*

          Once when I went to buy myself a pair of sports cleats the employee assumed I was buying cleats for my son. Who was with me. Who was two at the time.

          Because it’s more likely that a two-year-old boy will play sports than a woman in her late thirties? As a former D1 athlete that one really grated on me.

      3. Glengarry Glenn Close*

        I’m in my 50s, yet I once made a YouTube comment that got over 10,000 “likes”. Yes that says 10 thousand, not a typo!

      4. metadata minion*

        Plenty of people embrace new technology quickly, but it’s not ageist to comment that you’re most comfortable with the technology you used while coming of age. I, an older Millennial, can use new-fangled social media, and there are some things about newer apps that I really like, but my comfort zone is still the late-90s-style message board. That’s a pretty common pattern in how humans work, and it’s only problematic to point that out if you assume I *can’t* learn to use TikTok or I automatically must yearn for Livejournal because of my age.

        1. Worldwalker*

          YOU may be most comfortable with the technology you grew up with, but that’s not true of everyone. Admittedly my 100-year-old mother only got a smartphone a few years ago because I told her it was a good idea, but she loves it and uses it constantly. She certainly doesn’t want to return to pre-WW2 technology.

          I’m an early adopter myself. I don’t use something just *because* it’s new (usually) but I certainly don’t reject it for that reason either. I was building websites by hand when the Web was only a year or two old, and I’ve had people within the past year (“people” as in more than one) ask if I knew how to use the Web.

          Don’t assume.

          1. metadata minion*

            I didn’t say it was true of everyone. I said it was common. I specifically pointed out that it was a problem to assume that this pattern is true of everyone.

        3. Kendall^2*

          I’m hoping no one pines for LiveJournal proper, given the buyout by the Russians years and years ago….
          (Dreamwidth, on the other hand, is still active and independent.)

          1. I Have RBF*

            Yep. DW has no ads, is still being developed, and is US based.

            The only thing I use FB for is cat pictures and keeping track of relatives.

      5. honeygrim*

        I don’t know that the LW is being ageist. I parsed their sentence as “I’m Gen-X so [I am] comfortable with computers, but [I am] not so [comfortable] with social media that isn’t mainstream.” As someone else said, I think the LW was just explaining their own comfort level. They’re good with computers, but they aren’t familiar with social media beyond the most well-known options.

        1. Worldwalker*

          It’s the “so” that’s problematic: saying that their discomfort is the result of being a member of their generation:

          “I’m X so I like Y and don’t like Z” implies that their likes and dislikes are an inevitable consequence of being X, not a consequence of being themselves.

          “I’m a woman so I don’t like video games” … “I’m a man so I’m more comfortable around puppies than kittens” … both might even be statistically true, but are still worse than useless for individuals.

      6. abca*

        I am Gen X and “coming of age” social media of my generation was BBSs and UseNet. Later MySpace etc. Forums about specific topics, which also had a social function. ICQ. This was the time when things changed a lot and you adopted. It is a bit strange to therefore read gen X as if that explains why they are not familiar with non mainstream social media because to me, if we’re generalizing at all, that would be more true of younger people.

      7. Peanut Hamper*

        Could we not do this? LW did not make an ageist comment; they were describing themselves specifically and not making a generalized comment about all Gen X.

        Mentioning age in and of itself does not make a statement ageist.

  12. Bilateralrope*

    For LW1, is it just me, or are these also worrying signs:

    >hired into a lower position and immediately promoted by this man

    >He is very stern with other people, but still outgoing and friendly.

    It sounds like he’s treating the LW better than other employees. That is not the sign of a good boss.

    > But he makes sure we speak every day, even if one or both of us is off.

    Also not a good sign. You do not want a boss who calls you on your days off, unless it is something so urgent that it can’t wait until you’re back at work.

    But my advice is the same as others have given. Push back on how close he stands behind you. His reaction will tell you how worried you need to be. The only thing different I’d suggest is to ask other employees if he also calls them every day.

      1. Ashley*

        Yes! The sunshine name was a major flag to me.

        As you figure out how to deal with this, a good first step is to not have your phone with you on your days off aka pretend you didn’t his call / message.

        1. JMC*

          That’s not realistic. BUT they can make it so specific callers just go to voicemail. That would be easiest.

          1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

            What? Why not? It is extremely realistic to not answer his calls and then tell him you were in a movie/gym/grocery store and didn’t see the call.

    2. 1234*

      Oh yes! LW – trust your instincts. As women we are often told not to trust ourselves, gaslit into not listening to our gut. If this man had only good intentions, you wouldn’t have written this letter.
      And be very aware of any retaliation when you ask him to back off – little comments, reduced exposure, changing the goalposts.
      Be careful.

      1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

        Without seeing how he reacts to being asked to keep his (physical) distance, it doesn’t seem to me as if it’s possible to say whether he has good intentions or not. I actually don’t think he does, based on the letter, but that’s an educated guess.

      2. Hydrangea MacDuff*

        LW- yes, this above. You are trying really hard to understand his actions and motivations, when what matters is they they make you uncomfortable and cross your boundaries. Not to mention that colleagues are remarking on the dynamic which could for sure affect your professional relationship. Forget his intentions and focus on boundaries.
        “I’m going to move the computer over here so I have more room.”
        “Hey fergus , could you step back, thanks.” Notice: no reason needed.
        Quietly stop responding to his texts and calls outside of work hours. Monday morning, “sorry, just saw this! See you at work and I’ll bring the Llama report to our meeting.”
        This is “cheerful predator” behavior, a term I just coined. Predators seek to cross boundaries and groom their potential victims, while staying in the realm of plausible deniability—whether their motives are googly-eyed romantic or actually violent. I recommend reading the Gift of Fear.

    3. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I gasped at OP being able to feel his chest when he stands behind her, and cringed at him making an effort to talk to her even on days one of them is off work. I’d add to stop answering his calls on days OP is off, assuming the position is one where there truly isn’t a work need to talk.

      1. Michigander*

        If I can feel anyone but my spouse or children breathing because of how close they stand to me, I am immediately moving two feet in the opposite direction.

    4. JustCuz*

      He is love bombing her and thus creating a likely tit for tat or quid pro quo (lets hope not) situation. A lot of really unethical bosses like sycophants. These same bosses destroy companies and derail their “loyal” teams’ careers too. So even if this isn’t some kind of sexual grooming, it is still something LW should run away from. You don’t want to learn work place norms and how to do your job from a manipulator.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yes, this. Love bombing, or favor-sharking. Whatever you call it, it’s grooming behavior and even if it seems very mild at this point, there’s probably a reason why OP’s alarm bells are going off. Promoting someone immediately – that’s a red flag for me. Did you get hired into a position where you were already really overqualified? Or did you do something on day 1 that made him realize you are brilliant and needed to be in a higher position? Or…did he promote you for no other reason than he seems to like you and wants to “protect” you? Is he telling you you’re “awesome” and “tough” because you have done a lot of things that warrant these kinds of compliments? Or has he seen little or no evidence of your toughness and is just trying to build you up? Note: I’m not saying OP *isn’t* tough, I’m just saying that if he is calling her tough without having seen evidence of her toughness, that’s a giant red flag.

        So, I guess what I and the other commenters here are saying is that he may just be oblivious but you probably wouldn’t have written in if you didn’t have your spidey senses triggered by all this behavior. It’s not necessarily that he’s doing what he’s doing because he’s a creep, it’s just that the behavior is the kind of thing that creeps do and nice, normal people don’t tend to do.

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          Oh, and I’m adding my voice here to the chorus of people telling you to stop talking to him if you’re off work. Among all the other behaviors you describe, that one is probably the most alarming. Good bosses don’t contact employees on their days off unless there’s an emergency. Thinking back to my last boss, who was the best, she contacted me on days off exactly twice, to let me know both times that someone had quit/gotten laid off. Boss before that contacted me once to let me know that a new employee was starting and would be my officemate. All of these situations, while not emergencies, were important work-related information that I was happy to get a heads-up on even on my day off. But for a boss to just call me on my day off to, I dunno, see how I was doing or something? Nah, that’s a no for me.

          (Side question: what, in fact, is he doing when he contacts you on your day off? Is he asking about work things, telling you about a task you’ll need to do when you’re back at work? Or just saying “good morning, sunshine, hope you’re having a nice day at the beach!”? No matter what the answer is, it’s weird and wrong for him to bother you on your day off and you should feel free to ignore his calls on those days.)

    6. perspex*

      A huge red flag for me is this: “Other people claim he is ‘different’ with me.” It is not just LW1. Other people notice. Other people notice enough that they have said something to LW1 about it. This is a problem because of the inappropriate behavior, and it’s also a problem because it’s very possible that no matter how good LW1’s performance is, colleagues will attribute any success to an inappropriate relationship.

  13. michaela*

    Re: Layoffs
    100%
    I work in a federal adjacent sector, think companies who provide services for e.g. USAID or CDC. The consequences are brutal. Layoffs and furloughs are legion.

    1. BellStell*

      My NGO is facing layoffs due to the cuts, but also in many cities (obviously incl DC) where there is a Fed presence, I have heard a statistic that for every 1 Fed worker, 3 jobs in other sectors are linked. So, yeah. I am seeing it already is some other orgs too. The layoffs are only part of the bad stuff happening and the economic consequences are going to be bad, globally and especially in the USA.

      1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        Yeah, the knock-on effect for USAID is felt all over the world. I’m in France working for an NGO in Nigeria, the programme we’re working on has been slashed.

    2. Brain the Brian*

      Likewise. I’m extremely lucky to still have a job right now in my sector. I have so many friends who have lost their jobs at private companies because of the speed with which the federal dollars that until last month helped fund their positions are being frozen. Sigh.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      I think we’re headed for another Great Depression.

      Federal employees laid off. Government contractors out of work. Both are suddenly saving money and not spending. People who sell to them lose jobs. The higher prices of food and goods cause families with jobs to spend less. More people lose jobs.

      It’s going to be bad.

      1. CatDude*

        Yep. Federal spending, and the jobs it provides, is critical to the economy. These massive cuts are going to tank our economy.

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          I read an analysis that basically said if this doesn’t stop, we’re heading to an economic breakdown at least as bad as the Great Recession.

          For anyone who thinks you should run the government like a business, I would like to remind you that they serve two different purposes, and it would be just as foolish to run a business like a government.

          1. CatDude*

            Yea, running a public service for a profit motive just doesn’t work. As an example, look at US healthcare. We spend more and for worse outcomes than any other developed country – and it’s a direct result of running what should be a public service as a business instead.

          2. Worldwalker*

            Yes. A business’s goal is to provide the least at the greatest expense. A nonprofit’s goal is to provide the most at the least expense. Totally opposite goals.

            Also…what is the magic of “like a business” anyway? What business? Sears? Enron? Border’s? Blockbuster? Radio Shack? Polaroid? Big Lots? Joann Fabric, who just announced their dissolution yesterday? GE, once one of the biggest companies in the world, now on the skids? All of the companies that exist only as brand names owned by former rivals who bought their trademarks at the bankruptcy auctions?

          3. juliebulie*

            In a business, if things really take a dive you can declare bankruptcy (our fearless leader has a lot of experience with that). That’s not an option for the government.

          4. Candace*

            Exactly. I’m so tired of this argument. Everything is not a business, and trying to compare government, education, etc., to a business is a false analogy.

          5. Emmy Noether*

            Thing is, this isn’t even a good way to run a business. At least if you want the business to thrive long term. It’s a way to extract a maximum of money out of a business, and then leave the carcass to rot.

        2. schmoop*

          The private sector does things better and cheaper than the goverment does, because they care if they make a profit or use their funds effectively (see today’s other column about working for a nonprofit that spends $50/meal!). It will be short-term pain, yes. However, it will be better for both our economy and our country to decrease the waste and size of the federal government.

          I know this site is extremely liberal and there is little tolerance for right-wing views, but try to follow the “be nice” dictum of this site. Also, remember that although this site is extremely liberal, President Trump won the popular vote. When you denigrate conservatives, as many here so often do, you are denigrating a huge number of people in this country. Pretending that you don’t know any conservatives because they are a tiny minority that are just evil…that’s not true, and it’s not going to have good results in your work or personal life.

          1. Andromeda Carr*

            The cuts are not being done in a careful considered manner, and isn’t it the least bit disturbing to you that pretty much every department investigating Tesla has been stripped of the exact people doing the investigation?

            Trump won by a 2% margin which is hardly a landslide, and has recently offered 5 million gold card visas to the wealthy, which I don’t quite think is intended to balance the budget, as just one example of his actual governance.

            (Also this site is hardly “extremely liberal”, more like a bit left of center, but that’s another discussion.)

          2. Person from the Resume*

            You’re missing the point that a government agency’s purpose is NOT to do the most with least money. At least it wasn’t.

            The VA had contract set asides to favor for the veteran-owned small businesses because that was also way to support Veterans. These set asides were federal regulations/laws. The VA employees had to follow the regulations when making contracts. Don’t call VA employees wasteful for following the laws that Congress put in place. You need to understand that.

            https://www.washingtontechnology.com/contracts/2025/02/veteran-owned-small-firms-hit-first-vas-push-2b-contract-cuts/403271/

            You also need to understand that there are not jobs waiting for all these suddenly unemployed people. There will be a ripple effect for the whole US economy.

            This isn’t about which party you voted for. It’s facts of economics and facts of life.

          3. Tea Monk*

            But that waste and size is the medical care the children depend on, the services for their disabilities, the money they depend on to eat. The reason we’re mean is that we know people who are affected by these policies.

          4. Charlotte Lucas*

            Except private business doesn’t do everything better and cheaper, because they are out to make a profit. Many, many services we have now are public services because they needed to be run by disinterested public servants.

            If you’re interested in learning more, look into Chile’s water privatization disaster or the early history of fire departments, when they were privately run. Or even the poverty rates among the elderly before and after Social Security was implemented.

            Or just read some Dickens.

          5. FaintlyMacabre*

            Government provides services that the private sector won’t/shouldn’t provide.
            It’s not going to be short term pain.
            There are ways to investigate fraud that don’t involve upheaving giant chunks of the economy.
            Speaking of fraud, why is the beneficiary of government contracts now in charge of the departments investigating him?
            He won the popular vote (this time) but not by all that much.
            And unfortunately, while not evil, many of his followers have been fed a diet of lies which now is rebounding on them and taking the rest of us with them.

          6. Jules the 3rd*

            Sigh. You don’t seem like a troll, so I’m going to try a sincere answer. Background for this: I have an MBA and an Economics degree and have worked in both public and private sector (30+ years private), and have read many studies / theories / assessments on both.

            Neither public nor private sectors inherently do things ‘better’ all the time.

            Private sector is better for small / medium scale work, like ‘make computers’ or ‘drive trucks’, especially in emerging areas where competition can drive innovation, or where short-term goals are enough.

            Public sector is better for giant scale work, especially work with a ‘social good’, like ‘educating 74M students’ or ‘providing health care for 300M people’ or ‘protecting a country’ (US military). No entity can handle things that large efficiently, that’s why govt seems inefficient. But no private entity can put together the money needed to handle it all, and trying to do these things ‘for profit’ means that we don’t get the full benefits of the social good.

            A good president would take time and work with the departments to understand the impact of cuts, the way Clinton / Gore did in the 90s. After months of review, they got 400 recommendations, which they implemented over time so that essential services were not impacted. They eliminated (or moved to contract) 350,000 jobs over eight years, and managed a budget surplus by the end of Clinton’s term.

            Size / funding for the govt is a topic with a lot of room for debate, but *how* the current cuts are happening are clearly unprofessional and unnecessary. The goal is to ‘shock and awe’ *our own people*, US citizens who are perfectly fine human beings (30% are veterans, even), by treating them as thieves and con-men.

            Popular vote or not, now that people are seeing the results, Trump’s approval rate is dropping fast. And it’s going to drop more as this confusion, greed, and incompetence drives us into a recession, one which could have been avoided if the approach had been more thoughtful and measured.

          7. Yawnley*

            What are your thoughts on today’s report that Musk has reaped $38M in government cash so far? Do you feel like that makes sense for Americans?

          8. wendelenn*

            So who cares about the millions of lives that are affected by these completely random and insane cuts of NECESSARY services, NECESSARY people, and NECESSARY jobs, with NO method, NO forethought, having to REHIRE people they fired because they have NO CLUE what they are doing? Computer hackers doing audits, what could go wrong?? Immediate burning the world to the ground, what could go wrong??

          9. LL*

            No, this is not at all true. You’re completely ignoring the profit motive that private businesses have. They care about how much money their shareholders and the people that run the business make and they do not give a shit about whether their product is actually the best it can be at the lowest cost. They just don’t.

          10. Wayward Sun*

            The problem is the private sector ONLY cares about making a profit. This is why private insurance sucks so much; their only incentive is to jack up premiums as high as possible and pay out as little as possible in claims.

          11. PanDaMonium*

            I have no issue with conservatives. But supporting the Trump-Musk dismantling of our government is anything but conservative. Easy to dismiss “short-term pain” when you aren’t the one losing your job, your healthcare, your home…

          12. JustaTech*

            I work at a company that has experienced the same “hack and slash” approach that Musk is currently taking to the federal government. We are so lean that if we lose even a few people then the whole operation will fall apart.
            And that will be bad for our customers, and suck for everyone who will get laid off, but at the end of the day it won’t cause a recession, or a dam to fail, or the nukes to go off, or a pandemic to spread without anyone noticing, or an overseas invasion.

            Cutting deeply at a company almost always results in a lot of deferred maintenance. That’s one thing at a company, but it’s another thing when it’s vital infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams, airports, the power grid).

            Government should be accountable, and efficient, and not wasteful. But it is not and should not attempt to be a business.

      2. LL*

        I’m so mad that a billionaire and a reality tv star who’s stuck in the 80s are going to be the reason the world economy craters.

    4. No Tribble At All*

      Yes, a friend of mine had basically her whole company shut down bc they’re funded by a grant from USAID :(

      They even revoked everyone who was abroad

    5. Blue Pen*

      My employer is a private research institution, and the NIH cuts (although I suppose that’s on “pause” for now) will hit us very hard. I think we’re big enough to weather that storm for the most part, but I worry for my research colleagues who are situated in that area. Even if our jobs are “safe,” if the cuts go through, I would fully expect some kind of institutional-wide announcement to go out about hiring and promotion freezes.

    6. Tom*

      And besides the actual layoffs and furloughs, there’s the “return to office” mandates that are just “quiet layoffs”. My friend was just told that he needs to return to the office or take a position with a lower salary to stay remote. The office that he’s supposed to report to is short by 75 seats, so it’s clear that the company is just trying to reduce salary costs.

      1. Chidi has a stomachache*

        This, definitely. Spouse works for federal sub-contractor. They haven’t lost contracts in his division yet, but they are now doing a hard RTO because of the federal mandate. He thinks it’s to make them look more appealing to future contracts, and possibly to prompt some attrition (they also do not have enough parking or desks for everyone onsite 5 days/week).

    7. Do You Hear the People Sing*

      yup, this is what I was coming here to say. I live in DC, and I have a lot of friends who work for the federal government, but so far the only person I know who is furloughed works for a nonprofit whose projects are almost entirely federally funded. Her entire organization, including CEO, are furloughed indefinitely.

    8. Anonymousaurus Rex*

      I work for a Medicaid Managed Care Plan. We’re a fortune 500 for-profit company, but with a mission focused on providing quality health care for those who qualify for Medicaid. My role specifically is to develop programs to care for special populations–the unhoused, those who need extensive care coordination because of complex medical conditions, people with significant social determinants impacting their health. Depending on whether they really go through with $880B in cuts to Medicaid, my job and many in my sector are definitely on the chopping block.

      1. Bird Lady*

        I have a friend who works for a private health insurance company who was already told her entire department will be laid off in segments as federal funding freezes continue and cuts are legislated. They were given the option of seven weeks of severance or they can hang around until they get laid off.

      2. DVM*

        At my last check almost 1/4 of US citizens are on Medicaid, so I imagine the effects on any healthcare related field will be severe. Group homes and adult foster care facilities are all 99% privately run and bill to Medicaid so they will be no longer. We are just talking jobs here, but the vulnerable people that will become homeless is also horrific to imagine.

        1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

          This is what kills me. It’s going to suck to lose my job, sure. But the members that I serve are already literally homeless and me losing my job means they are less likely to get housed, or have access to street medicine, or have their complex care needs met. Lots of people are going to die. Lots of people are going to suffer.

        2. Nightengale*

          I work for a large health system. Over 90% of my patients have Medicaid as either their only insurance or a secondary insurance due to disability. The secondary Medicaid program is probably going to get cut in our state because it is optional. This is going to affect reimbursement for our practice/hospital. Not to mention the extent to which it is going to impact care. Most of my families who have private insurance are not going to be able to afford co-pays for medication or therapies. Medicaid also pays for a statewide behavioral health program for children.

          1. JustaTech*

            My company makes a medical treatment where at least 85% of our patients are on Medicare (retired people). If that goes away we are toast.

    9. Sociology Rocks!*

      I second this. Some department colleagues work on USAID projects and their entire team has to be laid off. Our upper level folks have been doing all they can to help find them other work at the university.

    10. Dek*

      I’m baffled that anyone thinks this is a good thing. My 96 year old Granny, who doesn’t follow politics, but does watch the news, keeps asking me why they’re doing it and how it’s supposed to help. And there’s really no good answer to give her.

      In some ways, this is even worse than if it had started with just a bunch of layoffs in the private sector because government jobs are supposed to be *secure.* People plan big life choices around the assumption that they’ll be in the same position for a long time.

      Tens (hundreds) of thousands of people abruptly losing what was supposed to be a reliable job will have a huge impact on the market. Fewer Big Purchases, fewer services purchased, etc means less work for others, means lean times for private businesses as well, not even counting the private businesses that rely on government contracts.

      And of course, that’s thousands of jobless people flooding a market that is already…honestly, not great. It’s HARD to find a job right now. It’s about to get even harder (especially for folks with specialties and skills, who tend to get passed on for “lower level” jobs for being “overqualified”). That’ll keep the wages down too.

      It’s going to be a mess. All to allegedly save ~4% of the national budget.

    11. Rage*

      I work at a nonprofit, and the biggest chunk of our funding comes from school districts. That’s state-level, but federal funds are absolutely distributed to states for this. That, plus the apparent dismantling of the DoE means that IDEA is probably going to crash and burn, and states/school districts will have zero responsibility (aside from any moral or ethical ones) to provide high-levels of service to severely disabled children. There is a significant chance that we will see our contracts with districts canceled or not renewed, and this organization (which has existed since 1934) will fold.

      Even if we thought we could get away without the school funding, the cuts of Medicaid will hit us hard in our outpatient clinic.

      I’m about to graduate with a Masters in clinical mental health counseling. Newly licensed mental health clinicians cannot contract with private insurance; a “clinical” license is required, which takes roughly 2-3 years of practice under the guidance of a clinical supervisor. Once you get your “C” (think LMFT vs LCMFT), you are eligible to be credentialed with private insurance. During those supervision years, however, we are limited to Medicare/Medicaid, private paying clients (and, assuming you are working under supervision, some BCBS plans will credential you at a lower reimbursement rate).

      I could lose my regular job, and then have my Masters degree be completely useless because I won’t be able to attract enough clientele to make it worth my while.

      Make no mistake: this is going to impact a LOT. A sudden reduction in the availability of healthcare and SNAP assistance will see millions of American families truly rein in their spending. Reduced spending = reduced demand for products = private company layoffs = even more reduced spending.

      I’m not going to lie. I’m not a “prepper” by any means, but I am laying plans in the event that I become both jobless and homeless by September of this year. One plan involves moving back to my parents’ house (in another state) to care for my mother if she loses her placement in the nursing home (she had a severe stroke last summer). Another involves a lot of camping gear.

      1. Academic Mood of Depression*

        My job is partially dependent on the Department of Education. No DOE, no Pell Grants, fewer students right at the demographic cliff for academia (fewer high school students graduating leads to smaller numbers of students even considering college).

        I am not a prepper either, but as partially a political protest and as an inflation buffer, I bought anything that I could purchase 4 years worth, ie, underwear, toothbrushes, jeans etc. before the current administration took over, thus I am cash poor. In addition, I am following through with trying to reduce spending on everything for the duration to the best of my ability.

        After this admin took over and created chaos, I started moving 2/3rds of my retirement accounts out of the stock market. With Warren Buffett holding cash, it seemed like time to flee.

        In addition, I will be participating in the Buy Nothing day on Friday, Feb. 28th.

        If enough people follow suit, we will either end up with the administration backing down, or a recession/depression. Considering the oligarchs are insulated against any economic downturn, I am not betting which we will have.

        The bargain that people (including me as a state employee) made in government jobs was for lower salaries balanced by greater stability. If the stability is gone, I can see even people that wanted to devote themselves to public service jumping to higher paying corporate sector jobs, increasing the pressure in that already tough environment. Also, anyone high up in outward facing public service would have international contacts to jump countries. If the current admin starts to persecute “enemies of the state” with those being whoever they say is “bad”, good-bye to the next generation of public servants.

        Can we go back to the boring part of history, please!

    12. Maggie*

      Absolutely the consequences of this will have knock on effects for the private sector and other sectors across the U.S., magnified, of course, depending on where you live.

      As one anecdotal example, my husband and I were both furloughed without pay from our government contractor jobs (we both worked for organizations that worked with USAID). We are also expecting a baby in July. Overnight, we went from a stable, two-income household to a zero income household. We own a home but how long we can keep our house is anyone’s guess at this point. We have dropped our spending to the absolute minimum levels right now, only paying for essentials like our mortgage, bills, groceries, and obviously any health-related costs for the baby.

      It’s a complete nightmare for us. And people are welcome to debate the merits of whether our jobs were necessary, but at the end of the day, an interconnected economy means that other people will feel the absence of us participating in the economy, no matter their political leanings. We aren’t going out to eat, aren’t traveling, aren’t doing any discretionary spending. So, whether people realize it now or not, this is going to have downstream effects for everyone.

    13. FaintlyMacabre*

      I work in a non-profit that supports farmer. Some of our positions rely on grants, federal and other. Our leadership is hustling to find other funding- even though this money is contracually owed. The farmers we support are seeing their funding freeze up- again, monet contractually owed to them. Also the Continuing Resolution passed last year didn’t include funding for some farm programs, like organic cost share. It’s bad. We’re gonna see farmers retire, people will lose their farms, and others will have to find different jobs. Plus the avian flu… To sum up, my job is safe for now, but ask me again in 3 or 4 months.

    14. Box of Rain*

      Same working for a nonprofit company with Medicare and Medicaid contracts. We are expecting layoffs any day now.

    15. STEMProf*

      This. Almost everyone in my field has been laid off – some federal employees, but mostly NGO and private sector who are affected by funding cuts (I’m at a university and don’t have federal funding, so I still have a job – for now). I expect things to get very, very bad.

    16. whatchamacallit*

      I am in DC and not a fed worker but the economic impact of so many of these people being out of work is going to be massive. Maybe I’m in the bubble living here but I’m kind of shocked by how people in other parts of the country seem to be oblivious how this is going to impact them. Federal money trickles down everywhere.

    17. SimonSays*

      My daughter worked for a private company doing consulting with the federal government and private companies regarding Medicaid policy. The administration annou ced major cuts to .Medicaid spending, so the company announced they’d be making major cuts, and the next day my daughter was laid off.
      Medicaid pays the salary of a lot of people who directly or indirectly provide services for people who are poor or have physical and mental disabilities. The proposed cuts would cause job cuts for doctors, nurses, health care techs, physical/occupational/ speech therapists, etc.

    1. I own one tenacious plant*

      Some private companies are going to be severely impacted when the cost of all their raw materials goes through the roof, it cost twice as much to produce said product, not to mention the increases to fuel, food, the increased cost associated with shipping all the food etc. Tariffs sound like fun! (Highly sarcastic Canadian)

    4. JustaTech*

      Yup, a bunch of our specialty items are made in Mexico, and it’s not like I can just find a US supplier. If we could we would have done it years ago – these are the folks that make these things. So we are stuck and have to either eat the cost or pass it along.

  15. Rain*

    I am continually amazed at Alison’s ability to give a well-thought-out answer to these “is this person being a creep” descriptions while also holding on to the (imo, slim) possibility that the person is really just clueless. My reaction is usually just an incoherent “AAAAAAH” followed by Whoopi Goldberg’s line from Ghost: “You in danger, girl!”

    1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

      I could see someone on spectrum making that mistake, so I would say a gentle reminder is usually worth trying. Once.

        1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

          Correction: you’re guessing that it isn’t a mistake. Since we don’t know how LW’s boss will react yet, we don’t actually know if it’s a mistake or not.

      4. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I wouldn’t be able to be gentle around it. My kneejerk reaction would be “WHOA THERE PERSONAL SPACE”.

        1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

          It’s a reason why people can misunderstand social cues. I think that more likely than not, he is overstepping. But without actually raising the issue, it is not possible to say.

        2. LingNerd*

          100%. Even if he doesn’t have bad intentions and is doing this because he struggles with social cues and appropriate social context, *it is already sexual harassment.* Because what matters is the effect, not the intention. He gets one shot to be made aware of the effect he’s having and to fix it.

          But let’s be honest, even an autistic person should know better anyway. Clearly this guy knows how to appropriately treat coworkers because he’s only acting like this toward the LW. And okay, say that’s because he has a crush on her and doesn’t have a crush on other coworkers, and he struggles to intuitively understand appropriate boundaries between work and personal. He is a manager. He is not new to the work world. I can almost guarantee he has done trainings and likely otherwise learned that a boss is not allowed to date or even flirt with a subordinate. And even more obvious than that, HE HAS A WIFE. Being autistic doesn’t make you think cheating is okay! If you’ve observed the culture you live in at all – heard stories from others, consumed media, etc. then you know that cheaters are always seen as the bad guys

        1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

          If he persists after being asked to stop (my interpretation is that LW hasn’t actually raised it directly) definitely harassment. Right now, probably harassment, possibly a mistake. We don’t know, although many of us seem to have made up our minds.

          1. Joron Twiner*

            Harassment is determined based on the behavior toward the victim, not based on the intentions or excuses of the accused.

  16. Ellis Bell*

    OP1, this is so unfair to you if your instincts are right (and I believe them because most of its just accurately reading weird and inappropriate stuff). Some key phrases for this situation, that you might find helpful: “I’ll just slide the laptop over here, I don’t want to get you sick” (even better if you’re obviously not sick), “Oh I’m so claustrophobic, can you just back up a little”, “Oh, okay, can I have a little elbow room though? thanks!”, “Oh there isn’t room for me, can you slide over?” On the eye contact thing, try to tie it to the context of what’s being said, as though obviously it’s not a hidden message and you just want to understand. “Why do you look so serious, though if the reports are all fine? You’re hardly blinking, what I am not getting?” or “That’s a nice compliment but you look so serious that I’m confused! Everything is okay right?” On the irrelevant compliments and endearments, pin everything relentlessly to the work and to professionalism “It’s nice that you think I’m amazing, but I’m not sure exactly what we’re referring to?” “I always appreciate your support, but I’m getting very general feedback; sometimes I’m struggling to pinpoint exactly what I did right.” and “Ha, it’s so friendly how you call me Sunshine, but I actually prefer Xena”. If he contacts you on your day off, don’t respond until the next working day if possible”Oh I was unplugged yesterday, but thanks!” Good luck OP, and these are just suggestions because your instincts will know best.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Or you can speak directly as one adult to another without all of the softening language. That cuts through the nonsense and doesn’t let him keep pretending that it’s not inappropriate. Boundaries should be clear and without emotion.

      1. Middle Aged Lady*

        But when someone is your boss, it may ne necessary or they could retaliate. Sucks, but there it is.

      2. Academic Physics*

        I agree with you when it comes to one’s personal life, but in a work life where the power dynamics are such as they are then Ellis Bell’s advice on how to to soften the message is often safest.

        Power dynamics are hard, and only the letter writer, however, knows best on how to manage them.

  17. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    1. I’m well aware of the ‘but maybe he’s harmless and just a bit clueless’ mind loop one gets into, mostly because it’s been hammered into every woman’s education for as long as I’ve been alive. Stepping out of it to go ‘heyyyy something is actually wrong here’ takes an enormous amount of effort.

    And you’re doing it! Cannot stress how darn impressive that is.

    He’s definitely sounding dodgy in his behaviour (regardless of the motives) and it’s ringing a few bells for me as to the kind of stuff I’ve dealt with where the other person flatters you, takes a mentor role, starts isolating you and moving closer…

    Bad memories. Anyway for the standing too close I recommend a casual ‘hey can you stand back a bit, you’re breathing on my neck?’ done in a light tone. If he’s genuinely clueless he’ll be very apologetic. If he tries to defend his behaviour or leans in closer then that’s when you KNOW it’s done deliberately.

    1. Bird names*

      Ugh, yeah. It’s never fun to have to come to terms with dodgy behavior.

      I like your suggested language in the last paragraph, since it sticks with simply describing the situation. It certainly should clear things up one way or another.

  18. Mouse*

    Slack could be a good solution for LW5! I don’t know what the pricing looks like, but I’m in a few communities that use it and you can share files and restrict access.

  19. Beth**

    #4 could be one of several things.

    Some industries seem to have regular layoffs as part of their business model. They are constantly changing strategy and that means some roles/people are no longer needed.

    In some cases, there will be knock on effects from the federal cuts. Government gets a lot of services from private sector companies and they may be seeing the writing on the wall and starting to make cuts.

    Then there are the completely unrelated companies selling services to individuals, some of whom are federal workers. If your job is at risk/gone, you’re probably going to postpone that kitchen renovation, Lasik surgery or trip to Disney World. You will probably also spend less on eating out, buying clothes etc. These changes will take longer to come through, but they will lead to job losses at some point.

    Anyone who thinks you can indiscriminately cut trillions from the federal budget without affecting the private sector or economic growth has an interesting understanding of economics.

    1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

      If you want to squeeze inflation out of the system, these kind of cuts are great for exactly this reason – they dampen growth. The human cost, though…

      1. Emmy Noether*

        It kind of reminds me of those fairytales where one has a wish but has to be very careful of the wording. Like people made the mistake of wishing for eggs to cost less instead of wishing for them to be affordable. So then eggs cost less, but people have no money to buy them with.

          1. Wayward Sun*

            We’re going to be testing the theory that people only care about inflation when Democrats are in charge.

  20. Disappointed With the Staff*

    #5 depends a lot on what “discussion” means. If you want a public forum for random chat Mastodon is good. For topic-specific or closed groups where search/archive isn’t wanted Discord works. For topic specific with archiving/search web forums are IMO better. If people post a lot of images/files a web forum you control might be better (there are hosting providers who have this as a “tick the box” level setup)

    There are old school BBS/web forms around and those are not too hard to setup up, or more likely find one that suits your usual topics and go there.

    Joining a mastodon server would be another useful social space. Each one tends to have a focus but relatively few restrict users to that focus. The archiving and search are better than discord and there’s decent facilities to maintain a cordial environment. If there’s more than a thousand of you it might be worth paying someone to host an instance for you (and even set up and do tech support for you, if that’s not already something hosting providers offer)

    One problem with BlueSky is that Jack Dorsey has form for selling social platforms to problematic people. So while it’s ok right now, don’t get too attached.

    1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Mastodon’s requirement to use hashtags for search makes it a little clunky so if search is a big requirement they’ll want to think about how well people would do at remembering that. I haven’t tried uploading any files there–didn’t think that was one of its capabilities.

    2. Crepe Myrtle*

      Just a note that search on the fediverse is well known to be extremely bad. Discord’s search is bad, but mastodon/fedi search is even worse. Plus, users can set their posts to auto delete after a period of time, which is awful for archival purposes.

  21. Michigander*

    I find “he makes sure we speak every day, even if one or both of us is off” to be one of the more worrying aspects (along with standing so close that you can feel him breathe, which would immediately send me jumping 2 feet away). No matter what his intentions, it shows bad boundaries. Does he message EVERYONE when he’s off/they’re off for the day? He doesn’t properly understand what a day off means and doesn’t have a good work/life balance. Does he only message you, but he has platonic intentions? He doesn’t understand that managers shouldn’t single out an employee to try to become friends with like that. Does he only message you because he has romantic intentions? Bad for obvious reasons.

    1. Marion Ravenwood*

      Yeah, this is the one that felt like a big red flag to me. Unless it’s an absolutely dire emergency, then your boss should not be contacting you on your day off.

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        Same thought, especially if these are social pings and not work-related. Either way, these are an opportunity to set up a boundary you want to have in any job to the extent that works for the role: your time off is your time, not your employer’s time to infringe on.

        Besides the advice about creating physical space (creepy! looming! breathing on you!), create space in time and be direct about it so you can gauge the reaction and so he can’t pretend to misunderstand.

        Something like this to remind him that he’s keeping a leash on you 7 days a week: “I really need my days off to recharge and not think about work so I can come to work refreshed. Unless it’s an emergency that I need to respond to, I need to ask that you not ping me so I don’t feel like I’m on the clock 24/7. Can you respect my personal time by not sending me texts or calling?” (whatever he’s doing)

        Since he likes direct eye contact you can look him right in the eye as you ask this. And then don’t answer if he continues to call on your days off. If he really has an emergency he should text you right after he calls. “Building is on fire. We’ll be closed next week. I need you to contact everyone to let them know.” If it’s “Hey, I just want to chat” ignore it in the moment and take it up with him at work to remind him of the boundary.

        This will not be comfortable but he really shouldn’t be calling you for social reasons at all. He’s your boss. He needs to be able to review your work and let you know when you’re not the awesome he expects. He can’t be your friend. That’s not how work works.

        If he says he’s just being friendly you can say that: “You’re my boss. You can be friendly in a professional way but you can’t be my friend and still do what you need to do to review my work objectively. That wouldn’t be fair to other employees.”

    2. Everything Bagel*

      I’m having trouble conjuring up any good reason why he would ask the letter writer to type something for him when he is already right in front of his own computer. Perhaps without saying anything, just turn the laptop towards you so you can type and then turn it back to him when you’re done. And absolutely stop answering calls and texts on your days off. The comment above about missing it because you were unplugged is a great response if he brings it up when you’re at work.

  22. Sun*

    LW 5- I have neverrrr been able to get my head around discord. I moved off Facebook and onto reddit about 4-5 years ago and am part of a number of special interest and arts groups. There is also capacity to make private groups.

  23. shrinking violet*

    #1 – I’ve been told by experienced police officers, “Always trust your gut.” Do it.

    1. MK*

      The issue isn’t really “trusting your gut”, it’s that it’s better to safe than sorry (or even, safe and sorry) than just sorry. OP has nothing to lose by treating this seriously: if she is wrong and the boss is just clueless, he will react like the good person OP wants to beleive he is and accept her boundaries.

      1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

        Agreed – and to be frank, gut feelings are often wrong, especially given how influenced they are by cultural norms. It might make sense to assume the absolute worst in a case of imminent danger, but that isn’t what the LW presents.

        I think the boss is fully aware of what he’s doing. But after observing his reaction, LW will know for sure.

        1. bamcheeks*

          I’m not super keen on the advice “trust your gut” for these reasons, but I do quite strongly believe in “listen to your gut, and ask it some clarifying questions to figure out whether it’s reacting to genuinely worrying behaviour or something else”.

          Women get mega gaslit (in the formal sense of trying to make you doubt your perceptions) with the double whammy of “you should have known what he was thinking” / “wow you’re really up yourself, not everyone who’s nice to you fancies you” from a young age, and it really does make us less safe by teaching us to ignore and squash those feelings. Learning to at least recognise and check in with feelings of discomfort is genuinely important, IMO. It takes practice to calibrate “yep, definitely unnerved by some weird boundary-crossing behaviour” from “fear of difference”, but that’s all the more reason to pay attention to those feelings and figure out whcih is which, not to dismiss them straight off.

        2. Nodramalama*

          In my experience, a woman’s first instinct about whether a man is being creepy is being creeped. We’re taught by society to rationalise and explain away, and excuse our first instinct.

          2. bel*

            Yes. We’re also taught to prioritize a man’s emotional experience (feelings of acceptance, safety, comfort, being wanted, being liked) above ourselves. Sometimes above our own safety.

            Don’t overthink it, don’t put him before yourself, tell him to step back. You can be as nice and polite about it as you want.

    2. Please think of the POCs*

      Trusting your gut is what leads to POCs being marginalized (white folk not getting into elevators and crossing the street to avoid Black men). It may make you feel safer but that perception comes at a cost to those around you.

      1. Nodramalama*

        Ok, but that’s not the situation here. The situation is whether a womans initial instinct of whether a man who is her boss is being inappropriate.

        1. Please think of the POCs*

          I know—it’s an example of how “trusting your gut” isn’t always a good heuristic.

          1. Ellis Bell*

            Not really, because as Bamcheeks said women are conditioned to ignore and excuse male behaviour so thinking of unconscious bias actually works in reverse here. I wouldn’t compare it to unfairly judging PoC (even though that is definitely a thing that happens!), but rather to PoC being told they don’t know what racism is, or that they are being too sensitive when they perceive different treatment. Also when people say ‘trust your instinct’ the ‘ and investigate further’ bit is implicit.

            1. Shinespark*

              I think that commenter was responding more to Shrinking Violet’s comment of “always trust your gut” being valuable advice from police officers.

              While it doesn’t address the letter writer directly, I do think it’s worth being aware of what “trust your gut” from the police can result in.

              1. Yankees fans are awesome!*

                Obviously, the comment is referring to police, in the LW’s context to “trust your gut.”

                Can we for once not turn something into a thing it isn’t? I mean, LW shouldn’t trust their own instincts relative to their seemingly creepy boss because that might also lead to their being prejudiced against a person of color?

                Like, what?

      2. Sportsball*

        …that has nothing to do with this letter but sure, downplay a woman’s internal sense that something is off about her boss’ behavior, that always goes over real well. Women LOVE when people do that, especially nowadays.

    3. CatDude*

      LW2 – Your discomfort with seeing a co-worker’s skin is definitely a you problem (and I appreciate it that you recognize that; many would not). Leave this alone.

    4. nalways*

      hmm, that’s kind of how police officers sometimes end up shooting unarmed POC though…
      listen to your gut, but try and work out what it’s saying and why it’s saying it before taking drastic actions

      1. bamcheeks*

        100% agree with this when it’s stuff like police violence or denial of liberty, but the only “drastic action” under consideration here is LW saying, “I’m sorry, could you give me a little bit more space?” I genuinely don’t think there are many situations (especially at work!) where someone should overthink before saying that!

        1. nalways*

          oh, no I didn’t mean that LW’s actions would be drastic in this scenario, and I understand that it’s a different situation – absolutely she should tell him to back off. Sorry, I think my buttons got pressed by the idea of police officers using “trust your gut” as a guide on behaviour, but that’s entirely my issue and not what LW is talking about, apologies!

        2. Mark Knopfler's Headband*

          Immediately filing an EEOC complaint. Which would be appropriate if (as I suspect will be the case) he refused to change his behaviour, and HR refused to act (which is less likely). But it wouldn’t be the right step now.

  24. Snubble*

    I’m hoping question 2 isn’t about me – I don’t think it is, because I am not so early in my career – but I’ve had the “don’t inject insulin where people can see you” conversation at multiple workplaces. I need everyone to understand that a bathroom is not a safe place to inject. I know people don’t wash their hands and every surface has germs on, but a bathroom is another level of dirty and you want me to put my needles and insulin pen down on the bathroom floor so I can do it in a cubicle? you think I can balance everything on my knees? you want me standing by the sinks? People are pissing in there. Would you inject yourself two feet from an open urinal?

    I would personally be happy to use a private space, but in a lot of places, those are hard to find. Meeting rooms have big windows and are not consistently available, offices are open plan, breakrooms are a shared space. If you have a genuinely private, genuinely available space for injections, I think you can ask your colleague to use that, but I think it’s unlikely that you do.

    I wouldn’t wear a crop top to the office, but I think a bit of visible tummy skin as part of a necessary medical process is OK. It’s in the “outside norms of professional dress” area, not the “you are naked” zone.

    (We could all probably benefit from rotating our injection sites more often, but the other good place to inject is in the thighs… so I use my stomach unless I’m alone in my own home.)

    You will see people say that injection isn’t urgent, and that’s kind of true, but it’s not urgent in the sense of you won’t immediately go into a coma. If you don’t inject you can’t eat, and if your blood sugars are shaky you may need to take rescue insulin to get them back, and delaying that is very uncomfortable and causes problems in the long run. You don’t have to enjoy seeing someone inject, but I think you do have to live with it. Sometimes you are going to have to see people being disabled.

    1. Lady Lessa*

      Thank you for your insight. Especially about the germiness of restrooms. I like the ones where I can put down the cover before I flush, but not every place has them.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      This really reminds me of the discussions around pumping breastmilk and how often people are told to do it in a toilet cubicle – because it is literally the only private space in most offices, not because it is at all suitable.

      1. Snubble*

        Yes! Exactly. The bathroom isn’t a good place for it, it’s in fact a bad place for it, but it’s the only place with four walls and no windows, so it gets suggested for everything from preparing baby’s meals to calling your lawyer.

    3. Punk Spider*

      I have in the past been judgmental about a guy who injected himself in front of the whole group at a social event, so this discussion is helping me understand where I was wrong and do better in the future. Thank you, diabetics of AAM!

      1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

        “Diabetics of AAM” conjures up the image of a band started by students at a Midwestern art school, for some reason.

    4. Kay*

      I appreciate all of this up until your 2nd to last sentence. I would never support asking people to use the restroom or delay giving themselves an injection, but as someone who can and has had extreme reactions to even the discussion of medical procedures I don’t think its too big of an ask to be given time to at minimum turn around.

      Passing out is no joke. We usually think of it as minor and I did as well when I was younger. That was until a friend ripped me a new one about the seriousness of hitting your head when you fall, and dying like her mother did.

      So yes, I do have to live with this. I don’t like it, but same as I would give anyone else grace to attend to their medical needs all I ask is that same consideration be given to those like me who are also facing a medical situation if I suddenly see someone lift their shirt and give themselves an injection.

      1. Dahlia*

        You “suddenly see[ing] someone lift their shirt and give themselves an injection” is not a thing though? Like that’s not. How it works. You’re going to see them get out their kit, lay everything they need on their desk, possibly test their blood sugar, sanitize their skin… there are several steps before that. You have time to look away.

        Like it’s not a “oh look a needle” *stab* situation, that’s just not how it works.

        1. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

          That’s odd. I’ve definitely seen people inject themselves without doing any prep work (just take out an injector and go). Does it maybe depend on the device? One of them was a close friend, and I know she’s diabetic.

        2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

          Okay, but why can’t one step be saying “I’m going to inject my insulin if you want to look away.”? *You* know the steps because you do it all the time. If I’ve never seen all those steps, I don’t know when the right time to look away is. I might look away when you do the test then look back just as you inject yourself and then pass out.

          Kay is making a reasonable request and you’re kind of mocking her, like she’s a dolt for not already knowing what it’s like to be a diabetic.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            To be fair, Kay has said elsewhere that she doesn’t even want them to state that they’re going to inject insulin, she just wants them to say, “Oh, I need to [insert mundane task]” because even knowing they’re going to inject themselves is too much, so your suggestion wouldn’t be enough for her.

      2. Snubble*

        Elsewhere in this thread you’ve said that being warned would also cause you to faint. It doesn’t sound like being warned is really what you want. It sounds like you want a world where nobody is diabetic and nobody ever needs to inject a medication. I would also like that world, but we live in this one. Sometimes you are going to have to see people being disabled.

  25. T1d*

    Insulin is part of eating for everyone, but some of us don’t make our own. (NB it’s not a medication, just a hormone.) Just let us do what we need to do, give everybody some grace, and rejoice in your own working pancreas!

    1. Sparky*

      Hormones can be medications. Medication is a pretty broad term that refers to a variety of substances used to treat particular medical conditions, including some hormones when they’re taken for that purpose. When doctors ask “What medications are you taking?” they definitely don’t want you to omit hormones from the list!

    2. CeeDoo*

      I inject at work all the time, in front of my students. But I turn around and expose as little skin as possible. As a teacher, I can’t leave my class alone to go to the restroom to inject, and I can’t always wait for someone to come cover. I don’t care if someone takes a tylenol in front of me, so I treat my insulin like any other medication.

  26. Ess in Tee*

    Does anyone else feel like LW1’s boss’s constant mentioning of his wife feels like a plausible deniability move? “What do you mean, I’ve been acting inappropriately? I’m a happily married man! Everyone knows that!”

    2. Not The Real Strategic Snorer*

      Absolutely I noticed that – it seems to be part of the pattern with people that cheat. Publicly proclaiming “My spouse is so wonderful, amazing, perfect!” makes the target of their attention think that they must be even *more* wonderful, amazing, perfect. It’s flattering and controlling at the same time, in a “See what I gave up for you?” kind of way. This boss is (probably) Not A Good Person.

      1. perspex*

        I agree. This has been my experience to the point that if someone makes sure to talk about their happy marriage (especially more than once), I assume they are a cheater.

    3. BatManDan*

      Bringing up the wife could have several motives, all bad. (“Bad,” as in, part of his plan to low-key test the waters with the employee to see where it could go. Source: in my younger, less-enlightened / less-principled days, I *could* have been that guy.)

    4. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Yup, totally. And also, OP says he’s not done anything explicitly sexual, but keep in mind, OP, that grooming doesn’t need to be sexual. There was a Captain Awkward letter a couple of years ago from someone whose college advisors (a married couple in the same dept) were completely awful but basically told all their students that they needed to do all the things that were asked of them because the advisors were so well-known in their field that if the students crossed them they would never be hired in the field after they graduated. (I’m not going to link to the letter here because it was really an awful situation.) Luckily that LW was able to get away from them and become successful in the field without them. In that scenario the abusers weren’t doing anything sexual* but they were still groomers and abusers. So…don’t discount this as grooming just because it hasn’t been sexual as of yet. It’s still grooming, and it also has the potential to become sexual somewhere down the line.

      *If you do look for that letter, it does reference sexual assault, but not by the actual groomers in question.

  28. Glengarry Glenn Close*

    #2 reminds me of the letter from a while back where someone had taken his shirt off at the office while waiting for a Covid vaccine and people were bothered. Just leave it alone!

  29. NYer*

    LW4. If anyone is familiar with Northern Virginia, they can see in Tysons Corner the HUGE facilities for the major consulting companies (Booz Allen, Accenture, etc). I suspect they will have major layoffs. Not also possible to repurpose people from their government consulting groups to other groups, and if someone is on the bench for a while, they likely get laid off.

    The NIH is saying they will cut the overhead part of grants (form about 28% of direct costs to 10%, which is apparently what many foundations pay). This will likely result in cuts at universities and medical programs. Penn has already cut graduate students.

    Some not for profits that are heavily dependent on the federal government grants will have to have cuts.

    Also, the Department of Defense is already saying some weapons being designed they don’t even want.

    So yes, there will be private sector layoffs, but I think they will be localized and very specific. What is making in worse, imho, it is already a tough time for white collar workers and employers seem to want a perfect match on experience/education.

    1. Generic Name*

      One of my close friends is an executive at a major defense contractor, and she said they are already seeing impacts from the funding freezes.

    2. Not a Vorpatril*

      My spouse, who was a university researcher, has been cut due to the NIH insanity even with the hold. Granted, the fact that the state we live in was not of the 22 fighting it may be why the Uni admin are cutting things so drastically, but it still sucks.

  30. Bookworm*

    LW4: I’m sorry to say but yes. I don’t have any specific info (company names, numbers, etc.) but anecdotally I just had an appointment with someone who talked about another client of hers whose husband was let go from a company despite a 10+ tenure with them. Unfortunately it is directly related to what’s happening at the federal government level (he was even warned about the possibility) and I know someone else who is considered a “contractor” with the USG and is currently in limbo (no definitive info either way–despite being in a field that you’d think was considered absolutely critical for public safety/health/security!)

    This is not to scare you but as companies do have contracts with the federal government it might be worth brushing up on your resume, etc.

    And not to get political or stir up anything, I would *strongly* urge you to contact your elected officials (regardless of party) to express your concerns. People have been doing that so there are lots of guides and resources out there if you’re nervous or don’t know what to say, etc. Good luck!

    1. StrayMom*

      You can download the “5 Calls” app – it provides the contact information for your representatives in Congress (and State, if needed) and even provides a list of issued and a script if you get tongue-tied.

  31. Glomarization, Esq.*

    LW#1 should start writing down all these incidents and consider taking them to HR. The boss’s behavior likely violates the company code of conduct and might be actionable for discipline.

    Not that the LW shouldn’t also move their body away from the boss when he does these things! But there’s more that the LW can do to self-empower in this scenario and try to get this behavior shut down.

    1. Mark Knopfler’s Headband*

      Agreed. It’s best to have a paper trail in case he can’t take no for an answer. Which I have a bad feeling he can’t…

  32. CatDude*

    LW2 – Your discomfort with seeing a co-worker’s skin is definitely a you problem (and I appreciate it that you recognize that; many would not). Leave this alone.

  33. Nicosloanicota*

    #3 mediocre reference – I don’t know, I think if it were me and I had an employee who was laid off through no fault of her own, I’d feel the company’s failure to meet its end of the deal kind of canceled out the employee’s failure to perform as well as you would have liked. I mean, if she has other better references (and you hired her, so maybe she does) it’s good to steer her to those rather than you … but sometimes the former manager is required or they call without the employee’s permission, and I just wouldn’t want to tank her whole career after a layoff. She’s unemployed with no warning and you want to make sure she doesn’t get hired again? Can you be measured but neutral, or conversely, just use the old “I can only confirm dates of employment and that she was not fired for cause”? But, I guess I have more worker solidarity than management solidarity, these days.

    2. HonorBox*

      I think this is a good point. While the employee may not have been the best performer, you also didn’t have an opportunity to evaluate how well things went with more direction – ie the PIP.

      You could go a little further than just confirming dates, though. Even just stating that you managed her for less than a year and don’t feel like you had the time to fully evaluate her performance because it takes people time to get up to speed.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        I really like this, because LW specifically did not get to fully evaluate performance. LW felt the employee could a would work through a PIP, so it doesn’t make sense to hold a PIP that never went into effect against the employee. I think it would be different if the LW didn’t expect the employee to succeed in their PIP.

        In fact, because the LW thought the employee would succeed in the PIP that it would even be reasonable to say “I managed her for less than a year, so I didn’t get to fully evaluate her performance, but I felt she would have been able to succeed in the role.”

      2. Academic Physics*

        The LW could even mention that they were optimistic that their growth could have gotten them where they needed to be eventually, as they seemed optimistic that the possible PIP was not to manage them out, just to help them!

    3. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      I agree. Since the employee was good enough to invest in efforts to train and improve, then she should get a positive reference. It doesn’t have to be glowing but should be positive.

  34. metadata minion*

    For #1, to give a comparative example of when a gut check turned out to be a false alarm, I have a coworker who stands *slightly* too close (but not as close as it sounds like your boss is standing!), and has a soft, intense voice that reads as somewhere between seductive and like he’s giving vital intel to a fellow agent between enemy lines. So when I first met him I was a bit weirded out. But it quickly became clear that he just has a slightly smaller personal space bubble than most people and a somewhat odd natural speaking register. He talks and acts this way to *everyone*, including upper management, and the content of what he says is never anything but professional. He’s just a bit of an odd duck, in a profession full of odd ducks.

    Your boss does not sound like he falls into this category.

    1. Academic Physics*

      And to add to that, when I worked with a close-soft talker when I asked him to give me space he did! Kindly and without pushing back! Which was good, and I hope that #1’s boss does as well

  35. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

    LW3 – agree with transparency for the staff member. It also helps to think about what weaknesses were just bad fits with this particular role, vs. what might be a dealbreaker for any role they’re likely to apply to. Like if someone fundamentally lacks attention to detail in a project manager role, that’s gonna be a huge issue that I have to mention. But if someone was really great at one thing but struggled with other things, and the other things aren’t part of the roles they’re applying to – you can still mention the problems you encountered but add the caveat that they probably aren’t relevant for the new role. (I’ve run into this a lot with folks on my team who are low performers in generalist roles, but would be superstars in a specialist role. And often when I have that “here’s what I can and can’t do as a reference” conversation with the staff member seeking the reference, I suggest that they’d be really strong at specialist roles, and even send them a few JD’s that I’m confident I could give them a positive reference for.)

  36. JL*

    I work in the private sector, and we have a fair amount of clients who undertook projects based on the availability of funds from the 2021 infrastructure bill. Trump’s attempt to withhold those funds has a lot of them scrambling. I’m definitely concerned. Most of the people cheering on these cuts and freezes don’t understand how far reaching the consequences will be.

    1. PP*

      I find it dismaying that so many intelligent people seemingly don’t get how intertwined all sectors of the economy are and thus, how the quantity of U.S. Federal Government layoffs are going to push the whole economy downward.

      Have we not observed and leaned from the past?

      1. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

        I think a lot of people know, and don’t care. If you’re from an area that doesn’t get showered with federal largesse, then you probably won’t care much about how much gets sucked out of the DMV or Greater Boston metro economies, and you may or may not feel the impact all that much. Likewise with tariffs, if you’re from an area that’s been directly harmed by free trade.

        1. JL*

          I think it’s a misconception that it’s the metro areas primarily benefit from these funds. Many of our affected projects area located in rural agricultural areas.

        2. Kara*

          I think a lot of people THINK they’re from areas that aren’t showered with federal largesse, and don’t realize how much their area will be affected by tariffs. Take food: farmers are heavily subsidized by the federal government. Take that away, and farmers go bankrupt after the first bad crop.

          1. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

            I agree with the first, not the second. The free trading regime that both parties happily signed up to has been quite damaging to a lot of the country (both people and environment). At the end of the day, both tariffs and offshoring erode purchasing power, by either driving up prices or slashing people’s income and destroying their job security. So I think many of them are happy to kick over the table, because they don’t feel like they had a stake in the status quo.

            I didn’t vote for the current administration, and I strongly dislike…well, pretty much everything they do. But the neoliberal consensus around globalisation and offshoring wasn’t working for a lot of people either.

        3. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          Or they don’t realize how many of their neighbors are on Medicaid. That’s not just the Bronx, it’s rural Kansas.

          As for tariffs, if you buy fresh fruit or vegetables, tariffs on Canadian and Mexican produce will affect your budget. Tariffs on Canadian heating oil and electricity will affect a lot of people, fairly quickly. That’s not rural/urban, basically all of New England is getting heating oil from a refinery in New Brunswick.

  37. HonorBox*

    Regarding Letter 2 – I’m T1D and would echo what others have said about restrooms being less than optimal. A lot of insulin can be delivered quickly and inconspicuously, and I don’t fault someone for giving themself a shot at their office, in a restaurant, etc.

    The only thing that stood out to me in this particular letter was that this has happened in front of clients. It isn’t the flashing of skin that is problematic, because I’ve seen far more skin when someone removes their backpack at the airport. But the client may not fully grasp what’s happening at that moment. I get that insulin delivery has some time-sensitivity, and I don’t know the full setup of the workplace, who the clients are, etc. but suggesting that insulin shots not be done in front of a client isn’t a step too far.

  38. Wanderland*

    Op5 here are some: groupme, you can have separate topics, google groups, telegram, signal, discord, whatsapp

    1. JSPA*

      I have little experience with the functions (and ability to have closed groups) but friends have been very enthusiastic about Mastodon.

  39. PokemonGoToThePolls*

    LW 5 – Delphi forums are an option. For a small fee you can have a completely private, invite-only old fashioned message board. I’m not totally sure how well it handles file sharing, but I know it’s an option – there’s also always dropbox/google drive/etc for this anyway
    I’m in a group that uses it and it’s been great.
    There are also other options if you don’t need it to be invite-only, but I’m not sure how those work or what they may cost. I know the invite-only one is $50/year for the board itself, free to members (we crowdsource this to keep the board private and safe)

  40. BatManDan*

    #1 – if other people are noticing that he’s “different” with you, then yes, he feel differently about you than the others, and that’s it’s own red flag.

    #5 Circle, Skool, Discord, Slack, WhatsApp (also a Meta product, full disclosure), etc etc.
    All have their plusses and minuses.

    1. perspex*

      Re: LW1 : Yes! I made a comment about this in another thread and can’t believe it hasn’t been mentioned by anyone else and wasn’t in Alison’s response. Other people noticing is a big deal, and other people noticing and actually telling LW1 about it is an even bigger deal.

  41. WantonSeedStitch*

    How important is it to tell someone outright that any reference you give about them will be mixed? I had an employee who needed a lot of feedback and coaching on issues with their work. I was able to give that feedback and coaching in a timely fashion, and they were aware of the issues, but they still were weaker in those areas at the time they left. When they asked me to be a reference for another job change later on, I agreed. The reference I gave was mixed: I was honest about their shortcomings, but also made sure to enumerate their good points. They didn’t get that job, or the next one for which they asked me to be a reference. They have since gotten a new job, but I was not asked to be a reference that time. I can only imagine they must have realized I wasn’t providing a glowing reference. Did I do them wrong by not stating outright when they asked me to be a reference the first time that it wouldn’t be 100% positive? It’s not like they didn’t know those issues existed when they were working on my team.

    1. Sweet 'N Low*

      I could be wrong here, but I feel like when you agree to be a reference for someone the implication is that it’ll be a positive reference. Whether that *should* be the implication is a different story (I think hiring would go much better if employers cared more about nuanced references, and if people were willing to give more nuanced references), but if I asked someone to be a reference and they just said yes with no caveats, I’d most likely assume they’d plan to give a positive reference. If I was asked to be a reference for someone who I wouldn’t give a 100% positive recommendation for, I think I’d probably let them know ahead of time.

      Did you do them wrong? Honestly, I don’t think there’s a universal answer to that question; I think it totally depends on your personal beliefs and values, and what perspective you approach it from. I could make an argument that you did them wrong by not being transparent and letting them make the decision about whether or not to use you as a reference. I could make an argument that you actually did a good thing by providing the hiring manager with accurate information that let them judge that the employee wasn’t the right fit, saving them from making the wrong hire and saving the employee from ending up in a job they wouldn’t succeed in. It’s up to you how you feel about it!

    2. Sneaky Squirrel*

      You should be honest on a reference request, and so I think you get some leeway if your plan is to give a positive reference but also to honestly answer a question if asked about weaknesses.

      However, if you’re not willing to be 100% recommend that applicant to every job they use you as a reference for, you should disclose that to them to give them an opportunity to find someone who might be a better reference for them instead.

    3. Glengarry Glenn Close*

      Personally, I won’t give a reference unless it’s a glowing one. However I will give that type of reference for any employee I feel was mostly good. IMO if I agree to act as a reference, I’m going to go all out and do what I can to give them a great one.

      I’ll usually ask the employee if there’s anything they want me to emphasize with the reference checker, or just generally if there’s anything they want me to impart.

    4. Nicosloanicota*

      Well, yes, I’d say so. Presumably they wouldn’t have listed you if they’d known you were going to talk about their shortcomings in equal measure. Especially because most references provided by candidates are very positive, so even a faint praise type of reference generally sinks an opportunity, never mind one that’s 50% negative (or even 30% really). I mean in theory they picked the three people they thought could best speak to their candidacy, which leads me to think there’s worse opinions out there that they’re not offering. The more tepid reference calls are typically the ones the candidate didn’t offer but the hiring manager sleuthed out on their own. I’m glad your employee figured it out. I think people deserve the chance to bounce back after an unsuccessful role, not be held back by it forever .

  42. ICodeForFood*

    #4 – In terms of the federal layoffs affecting private employers, I know one employee and one contractor who work for a private non-governmental organization (NGO) which works with foreign aid but is not part of the federal government. The contractor has already been told that her work is over, and the employee has been furloughed for 90 days with the assumption that he will be laid off.
    As Bookworm and NYer said, firing thousands of federal workers will have effects at private employers and on the economy in general.

    1. WillowSunstar*

      I got my layoff notice back in the fall, but there were already signs he was going to be elected before he was. So I’m not sure if was related. We don’t do govt. contracts, but one of the rich tycoons is minimally involved (not the big chaos goblin).

    2. Nicosloanicota*

      I thought I’d heard the number four to one (four non-government roles affected for every one government role affected) but can’t find the substantiation for that now. Maybe it was specific to the DMV.

  43. Chronically Brave*

    My perspective on the diabetic coworker is a little different than Alison’s…I don’t think the needle is an issue (assuming that this is a workplace where it isn’t a safety concern and coworker is disposing of said needle appropriately)…but I can’t think of a workplace where exposing one’s belly is appropriate…or at least not a workplace that involves desks…I would suggest the coworker select an injection site that doesn’t involve removing clothing as it is rather inappropriate from my perspective to remove clothing in public. As a fellow person with chronic health concerns I get it – I prefer at home to pull my shirt aside for medical access, but at work I use other methods because my coworkers should not see parts of my body that my clothing is intended to cover. Arms are a recommended site for insulin administration and acceptable to uncover at work.

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      I think it’s different in that the belly exposure is brief. To me it’s the same as when someone is reaching up for something on a high shelf and you might briefly see their stomach (or if they’re reaching down to pick something up and you briefly see their back). And while I’ve never dealt with diabetes, the sense I get from other comments here is that it’s not necessarily as simple as choosing a different site.

      1. Cordelia*

        Yes in order to inject into my stomach in the clothes I have worn to work today, I would lift a little bit of the bottom edge of my top a couple of inches. To inject into my upper arm I’d have to take my whole top off as I am wearing long sleeves that don’t roll up.
        But anyway, there are a lot of factors that go into the choice of injection site for a diabetic person – the ill-informed opinions of their coworkers aren’t among them.

    3. Ann Onymous*

      Reasons why arms aren’t always a good option:
      – insulin must be injected into fat and some people don’t have enough on their arms
      – it can be hard to simultaneously see and reach the back of your upper arm, which is where most people have sufficient arm fat
      – a lot of clothing doesn’t allow easy access to upper arms
      – it can be hard to inject one-handed
      – arms are a more painful injection site for some people

      When I was doing insulin injections before getting a pump, injecting into my arm usually meant putting my foot up on my chair so I could use my knee to help push/pinch the fat on the back of my arm to where I could see/reach it. It may have involved “more acceptable” skin exposure but it was a much bigger and more disruptive production than injecting into my stomach.

    4. JustKnope*

      A) It’s really hard to access the back of my arm with an insulin pen, for me personally. Usually I use a wall to “push up” the fat on the back of my arm to inject into. This would be much more obvious and distracting to anyone walking by.
      B) Other people’s discomfort for the ~30 seconds it takes to give an injection does NOT get to dictate where someone gives their life saving injections. The burden is the coworker literally just looking away for a minute versus the PWD having to change their medical plan!

    5. em*

      I live somewhere that is pretty far on the conservative side of dressing and I absolutely agree. Injecting at your desk is nbd but flashing skin would be get some major side-eye, regardless of gender. A solution might be giving that person a desk near a wall, so they can turn away, or perhaps throwing a scarf over the exposed skin? There are lots of people here claiming that showing skin shouldn’t matter because this is medical but that just isn’t how modesty in professional spaces works.

      1. Dahlia*

        A scarf??? So one hand is holding their shirt up, one hand is holding the needle/pen… what hand is supposed to be holding a scarf?

      2. JustKnope*

        2 inches of stomach for less than one minute? Also I have no idea how I’d get a scarf over myself while also holding an insulin pen. I think we’re being really dramatic about this given the quantity of skin and length of time it’s revealed.

    6. Blue Pen*

      I don’t understand this train of thought. I sincerely doubt the individual is lifting up their shirt and holding it where their bra or undergarments can be seen by everyone for lengthy periods of time? In my head, the way I think it goes is that they “lift” their shirt so they can get to the access point, but their hand is covered by the shirt.

      And also, I don’t think it’s up to you (or anyone) to dictate where someone’s medicine is injected into their body. I get that it’s not something you see every day at work, and that might take some getting used to, but if I knew that someone had diabetes and needed insulin to function/live, then I wouldn’t dream of policing their medication intake in any way.

  44. Sweet 'N Low*

    #2, I got bad vibes even BEFORE you got to the “on the fence” behaviors. Does this guy actually have bad intentions? No idea, but I don’t think his intention matters all that much. He’s *acting* like how someone who has bad intentions would act. If this were a movie, the audience would see him as a creep and it would be a plot twist if he turned out not to be one.

    You deserve to not have someone do the things that a creep would do towards you, regardless of his intentions.

    1. Generic Name*

      I agree with this. What matters is you feel uncomfortable with his behavior. You have the right to not feel creeped out by your boss, even if he is a “clueless good guy”. When he stands too close, step away. Block his number on your day off. Pull back on any friendly banter you may have had. Treat him as all business.

    2. Aggretsuko*

      I don’t think there’s ever been a case of a guy acting like this and the guy was just platonic and not trying to get into your pants.

  45. Going Anon for This One*

    Having once been on a medication that needed to be injected (not insulin), I know that some of them must be injected into the thigh. This would require dropping your pants, so privacy is required. Would it be wrong for a lactation room to double for this purpose? I know we’ve had discussions here on how problematic it can be when that room is used for other things, but this is also a medical and privacy need.

    1. Iusemymiddlename*

      I can’t imagine that nursing mothers would have an issue with the lactation room being used for something like this. I assume the injection would take only a few minutes tops.

  46. SereneScientist*

    LW #5, you can also try Slack communities as well. It’s more typically used by businesses but I have a lot of friends who run their own private Slack servers for table top roleplaying games, local meet-up groups, etc.

  47. Somehow I Manage*

    OP1 – His intention doesn’t matter. How you feel does.

    If it is uncomfortable to have him standing so close that you can feel his chest move as he breathes, you are entitled to feel uncomfortable. If you’re uncomfortable because he is more effusive with praise for you than with others, you’re entitled to feel uncomfortable. If the unbroken eye contact is uncomfortable for you, you’re entitled to feel uncomfortable.

    Clearly you’re noticing something and wondering if there’s something up. Also, clearly others have noticed too and have commented that he’s treated you differently. All of this is at least worth examining and playing some defense against. I hate that you have to do the work to solve this, too.

  48. Parenthesis Guy*

    #4: I was just reading an Urban Institute analysis about this.

    There are a number of small towns where the primary employer is the government. Those small towns are in significant danger from DOGE regardless of whether people are employed by the government or not. It’s simple, suppose 10% of the town has a government job and 50% of those lose that job (so 5% total). If you own a bakery, you’ve just lost 5% of your business. That could be enough to make you collapse from the secondary effects even though you’re not impacted by the primary. You’ll certainly notice.

    Likewise, the DC area gets hit hard. Lots of government employees and government contractors are there. If they lose their jobs, there will be huge secondary effects that’ll take out other services. But other major areas will see an increase of unemployment of about 1% or less. That’ll do minimal damage to private employers.

    The federal layoffs will cause/are causing layoffs at private companies if they have a connection to the government (and a lot more do then you think) or if they’re located in certain geographic areas. The Bezos space company for example competes for government contracts against Musk’s space company. That means they’re absolutely impacted by what’s happening and they may struggle in the current environment.

    1. NYer*

      I agree, but no one cared when Obama cut back on trainees for air traffic controller and the small businesses in that Kansas town suffered.

    2. bamcheeks*

      I saw something on social media speculating that there was a lot of housing for sale in Washington and surrounding areas because so many federal workers were trying to sell property, and there were some comments about “well, I’m not sorry for anyone selling overpriced blah blah blah”, and it reminded me of that streamer who did the “who are they going to sell TO, AQUAMAN??” in response to one of Ben Shapiro’s videos. Like, that property is not going to stay overpriced if there are hundreds of thousands of federal workers trying to leave DC! It’s always kind of fascinating to me when people think that prices — especially housing and property prices — are kind of fixed norms and not something that is wildly sensitive to changes in employment patterns or salary levels.

      1. Nomic*

        You are absolutely right, but the issue is that, in the US at least, owning a home is one of the bigger retirement planning buffers. It’s why people go insane over anything that causes their home prices to drop (NIMBY-ism can in part be attributed to fearing any lost of home value).
        I know more than a third of my total worth is tied into my home. Having that value disappear would cost me several years of work before I can retire.

        1. bamcheeks*

          Yeah, it’s the same in the UK, and it warps all sorts of other things. It’s just so weird to me that people think that kind of property value endures despite things like “what if sea levels rise” or “what if there were suddenly 20% fewer jobs here”.

    3. I don't work in this van*

      Some of those connections to goverment will be less obvious and more indirect though. With the significant cuts to NIH and research, for example, which pours funding into universities all over the country, that’s going to impact the people who produce/maintain lab equipment; companies who service those types of spaces (cleaners, food service, maintenance); support staff (admin, HR). Cuts to the arts haev a similar ripple effect. If you were producing paper for government-funded theatres, programs, spaces… that’s all gone, too.
      Then you have tens of thousands of people who will be greatly reducing their spending, which impacts retail, banking, entertainment, tourism… it’s not going to be small.

      1. Parenthesis Guy*

        Absolutely. On the flip side, the Great Recession cost 8.8 million jobs. I see this costing something like 1 to 2 million jobs. It’s definitely going to be bad news for growth.

  49. Glengarry Glenn Close*

    I’ve been on kind of a self imposed news boycott for a while and don’t really use FB much these days. So this may be obvious, but is there a specific concern regarding Facebook groups? LW says it’s for people who work in payroll for movies, which seems fairly innocuous

    1. CatDude*

      I would guess it’s due to Meta/Zuck cozying up to the current administration, eliminating diversity programs, and/or removing fact-checking.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      There’s a lot going on with Facebook/Meta. To start Zuckerberg seems to be a MAGA ally and the platform is starting to lean more towards the right. They have taken down their fact-checking and moderation systems. Sometimes when these systems do work it will hide comments or posts from left leaning people/organizations. The algorithm is all over the place and the comments are horrid, especially for LGBTQ.

    3. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      I suspect it may be as a reaction to Mark Zuckerberg’s announcement that Meta will no longer be doing content moderation and/or his and Meta’s shift in purported values & politics.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        I’m convinced FB is actively trying to radicalize me. I made two anti-clan-with-k posts recently, and since then have had a massive uptick in my feed of alt-right “news” even though I keep telling it to show me less. The “news” is from pages I don’t follow and hasn’t been shared by anyone I know.

        1. Dasein9 (he/him)*

          Same. It’s done this in the past but is much worse now. Lots of “influencers” dropping opinions on how everyone needs to be married and really poorly understood evolutionary theory.

          1. Banana Pyjamas*

            My reels are surprisingly not terrible, it’s really just “news” posts that seem to be bad.

        2. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

          If it makes you feel better, I recently left FB after being barraged with anti-vax, other health misinfo, pro-Trump and white supremacist-leaning bullshit in the form of “suggested” posts, leaving almost no content from my friends or the pages I follow. I haven’t posted about politics, other than reminding people of voter registration deadlines, in a good 5 years. So I think they’re just shoveling this trash at everyone.

        3. Wayward Sun*

          Their algorithm maximizes engagement. Nothing keeps people engaged like being angry, so basically it shows you whatever it thinks will make you mad.

    4. Silver Robin*

      Lots of folks are trying to find alternatives to the Metaverse (Facebook + Instagram) as well as X (Twitter) because neither Musk nor Zuckerberg nor their companies at large have the user’s best interests at heart. Privacy issues, lack of moderation, algorithms that prioritize engagement over all else (which encourages toxicity), lack of responsibility regarding misinformation (Russian bots as one example).

      There has been an uptick in people leaving those spaces recently as a result of the election / discussions around AI (from what I have seen). The assumption is that Facebook will eventually become entirely useless and it is better to head out and build a new place early than to wait around will ensh*ttification relentlessly erodes any value the Metaverse had.

      1. WillowSunstar*

        I have been using Reddit, but apparently parts of it are going to become pay soon, so guess I will need an alternative to that one.

    5. juliebulie*

      Maybe they are trying to be on a self-imposed news boycott as well and don’t want to see all the insane garbage on FB.

      1. bamcheeks*

        Or the weird AI-generated “this man carved this amazing wooden sculpture of his parents, don’t ask why he spent so much time making sure his mom had really A++ breasts”.

  50. Bike Walk Bake Books*

    LW5, I took a class for which the instructor used Circle as our community space. I really liked it. Clean layout, easy interface, option to set email prompts if someone posted. I don’t remember whether they uploaded files there; they had a separate instructional platform where they stored the curriculum materials because they used them over and over. It’s at circle dot SO.

  51. celestialisms*

    #5 Maybe not perfect for your purposes, but Dreamwidth is an old-school blogging site that has communities.

    1. Coffee Protein Drink*

      It’s also where a lot of Live Journal users went after it was bought by a Russian company.

  52. Bike Walk Bake Books*

    LW1, I’m reminded of things I said to my daughters when we talked about appropriate behavior from men. I told them the good guys wouldn’t want to be mistaken for bad guys. If they asked someone to stop something, the reaction would tell them everything. A good guy would feel sorry that they’d created that situation, apologize, and it wouldn’t happen again. A bad guy would try to convince them everything was fine or they misunderstood.

    Bottom line, your body is your body and your boss shouldn’t be inside your space or setting up scenarios that force you to lean into his space. If it would be creepy for a total stranger to do it, it’s even creepier for your boss to do it repeatedly.

    1. Hearsay*

      Aside from this being advice about OPs problem, I want to thank you for sharing this! I just screenshot it to talk to my kids (daughter and son) today. That’s such an amazing way to explain it! Thank you!

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        Thanks! Glad it was helpful. Saying what I said in a slightly shorter way, a bad guy wants you to think he’s a good guy. A good guy understands he did something you don’t like and responds appropriately.

        My daughters are both in their 30s now and have told me over the years that this has been really helpful to remember.

    2. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

      Yeah, I would have a panic attack (in private) if I thought I’d come across that way.

  53. ope sorry*

    I’m a high school teacher with severe chronic asthma. I caught influenza A despite having my flu shot this year and had a serious asthma flare for several weeks.

    I don’t have nearly enough sick days to stay home for the length of my asthma flare, and it wouldn’t be good for the kids for me to be gone that long… so I keep a nebulizer under my desk and do breathing treatments when they have work time.

    And you know what? The kids couldn’t care less. They just want me to get better. I mean, they’re teenagers so some of them give me crap about it lol, but otherwise zero judgement.

    If kids can give us grace in managing chronic illness, let’s try doing that with our colleagues, hmm?

    1. Seashell*

      Unless there are people with nebulizer phobias or this treatment involves showing parts of your body that you wouldn’t normally show in the classroom, this is kind of an apples and oranges comparison. Also, students are basically a captive audience whether they like it or not, and the clients in that office may be in a position to take their business elsewhere.

        1. Kay*

          “Oh! Excuse me, can you give a quick second here, I need to take care of something -turns around, does injection so client can’t see- sorry about that, emergency situation, where were we?”

          I say this as someone who would have otherwise passed out being as I can’t handle needles. With the above I have no idea if it was an attack of a vicious tag or who knows what. It might be awkward but I think giving others the option to look away is better choice at minimum. If I was a client and the LWs coworker had given themselves an injection while I knew what was going on, that meeting would have been over because I would either be unconscious or struggling to keep myself together.

  54. Aspiring Great Manager*

    LW1 – Trust your gut! everytime he gets into your space, just treat it as an inconvenience and deal with it matter of fact: oh, let me move this here so it’s not so close, etc.; do not answer his calls on your days off, or if you must ask what the work issue is, and if there is none, just say ok glad everything is ok at work, have a good day (you don’t need to add a reason or excuse to close the call). Maybe ask yourself if you haven’t been doing this because of other reasons? are you afraid you could lose your job? that would be a red flag, but it’s worth spending some time reflecting and introspecting.

    LW3 – I’ve been a manager for decades and my view is that unless someone really catastrophically messed up, if they’re asking for your reference as a previous supervisor it’s likely because they need help to get another job to, well, live. It’s very hard to not give one’s last supervisor as a reference, because it’s usually seen as a bad sign. So if you’re asked do your best to highlight the good points of that person, offer a factual and short explanation of the bad points if asked and let it be. Don’t overthink it and don’t take this as a time to give the candidate’s performance assessment that you didn’t give them in person to a prospective new boss, that’s not appropriate. People need jobs, without one there’s no food on the table, and almost everyone has a suitability for something, so highlight that. To be clear, do not hide the bad points, but know that if someone made mistakes towards the end, that should not be the only thing you talk about, focus on the trends and their challenges, the support they could use to thrive and their potential. Even when they don’t work for you anymore, you can be a good manager.

    LW5 – use Signal! I’m a huge fan and have used it for over a decade. Has excellent security, it’s a non-profit, not associated with meta or similar, and you don’t need a phone number to set up an account (like Whatsapp). Not sure where you’re located but sounds like maybe the US, where Facebook is from what I hear a mainstay for communication, but in most of the world Whatsapp is the main chatting app, and Signal is used for those who want more security. Whatsapp is also good and very easy to use. In both Whatsapp and Signal you can set up limited membership, admin approval for new members, set up so only admins can release messages or everyone can chat. You can share files, but there is no file folder as it were, so it’s more transitory.

    1. bamcheeks*

      WhatsApp is owned by Facebook/Meta, so whether that’s suitable will really depend on whether LW5’s group is just trying to avoid the actual political content on Facebook, or get away from Meta all together. But I would guess it’s probably the latter.

    2. Bruce*

      The letter from LW1 makes my skin crawl, and I’ll second the comments for her to set boundaries. When I was still working on-site I often met with people and shared a screen and keyboard, but using an external screen and keyboard made it easy to collaborate without getting unprofessionally cozy. Sharing views on a laptop while looming over LW1 and breathing on her is a choice.

  55. HailRobonia*

    I, for one, don’t relish the thought of someone injecting themselves in the bathroom while I’m in there trying to masturbate.

    KIDDING!

  56. HailRobonia*

    Seriously, though, this speaks of an issue that many workplaces face: we need more privacy. We need places to do things like self-inject, adjust medical devices, breastfeed, etc. and the solution should not be “do it in the bathroom.”

    1. Aggretsuko*

      Add phone calls for therapy to that list. At my old job pre-pandemic I literally had to stand around outside in the cold while random people walked by and construction was ALWAYS going on, because we just can’t do private spaces or offices!

      After having to come back to work, we went hybrid and had hoteling offices, so I could do therapy calls then–but also I could just schedule in-office days for non-therapy days.

    3. Bruce*

      If cubes had even a minimal wall to be above head level when sitting this would be a complete non-issue. Wide open office plans are nuts.

    4. Blue Pen*

      Yes, I completely agree. Even more broadly, in my workplace now, there’s very few closed offices, and even those don’t close completely. Therefore, if I’m returning or calling the doctor’s office to make an appointment, the entire floor can hear that conversation.

  57. tabloidtainted*

    2: If part of your responsibility is to mentor your colleague about professional norms, I would tell them that it’s okay to politely excuse themselves from the meeting for a moment instead of injecting in front of a client. Otherwise, injecting at a desk is fine and you can leave that part alone.

  58. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

    Here’s a site that lists alternatives to a lot of common software/cloud services, including Facebook: https://switching.software/ . You can click on a specific software and then it’ll list alternatives.

    I have not vetted this personally, just saw the link go by in a Dreamwidth post by a musician and Linux geek I read recently.

  59. Dawn*

    Type 1 diabetic here: it infuriates me when someone tells me to take care of my medical needs in “a private space” (which almost invariably means giving myself an injection in a disgusting public bathroom.) This is a medical need, I am owed “a duty of dignity” by law and you will respect it, which means not treating me like a leper who must be kept out of sight of polite society when attending my medical needs.

    1. Dawn*

      Now, my rant over, I will say this much: it is completely unnecessary to pull your shirt all the way up (you can actually do an injection through a shirt, but that’s sort of advanced and the needles are so short these days I don’t recommend it) so you might be able to ask that your colleague not hike their shirt up so much, but prepare for them to possibly be offended that you think it’s any of your business. I usually expose two inches of skin or less for an injection, which doesn’t sound like the case here from what you’ve written.

      1. Dawn*

        If I’m wrong and by “seeing so much of my colleague’s skin” you mean “1-2 inches” then you need to get over seeing less bare midriff flesh than you see on, say, their hands every day.

  60. BlueCactus*

    LW2: 10-20 seconds of exposed midriff for a at a desk for a medical reason is not an issue. A heads up for anyone who has needle issues in the vicinity is good practice, but managing insulin-dependent diabetes is a massive hassle and drain. I’ve worked with a lot of patients who struggle with the burden of regular insulin injections – both from a logistics standpoint (people who work in kitchens or outside have a really tough time) and from stigma – and it has a long term negative effect on their health. As a doctor, I’m pro anything that decreases the burden of insulin injections and makes it easier on people. If it’s actually a meaningful business issue that this person is injecting during client meetings (it shouldn’t be, but sometimes it is), AND it’s your responsibility to talk to them about it, then I would emphasize in the conversation that their health comes first and that it’s perfectly acceptable to step out of a meeting to inject before coming back, and that it’s okay to inject at their desk.

  61. Diabetes is my problem, your discomfort is not*

    I’ve had type 1 diabetes for 18+ years (diagnosed at age 18). I would prefer not to have to deal with my diabetes in public and would in fact prefer not to have diabetes at all, but I have no choice. Managing diabetes is a 24/7/365 job that I didn’t sign up for and it’s a job I can’t quit, retire, or take a vacation from. I’m already dealing with the burden of living with a chronic illness that impacts most aspects of my life; other people can take on the burden of their very temporary discomfort at witnessing me deal with my chronic illness.

  62. toolegittoresign*

    LW4: I work for a company that serves mainly colleges and universities. If the federal research funding cuts and Department of Education cuts go through, then I expect we’ll have layoffs. As it is, a lot of contracts we thought would be signed by now are on hold due to a lot of colleges and universities are worried about losing funding.

    PSA: If you value your public universities and colleges, even just because you love NCAA sports, please, please, PLEASE call your senators and representatives and ask them not cut research funding and the Dept of Education.

  63. Database Developer Dude*

    I look at those wanting to ask the diabetic to accomodate others with respect to their injections the same way I look at those who complained about the appearance of the post-mastectomy cancer patient’s breasts. Equally unacceptable. Do better, and don’t be ableist.

    1. Pepper*

      “those who complained about the appearance of the post-mastectomy cancer patient’s breasts. Equally unacceptable Do better, and don’t be ableist.”

      My Mom had breast cancer. If I ever got it (hopefully not!) a one-side mastectomy I’m thinking I’d plan to show up every day with the difference showing to spite lookism bias!

      (And also because all the prosthetics are terribly uncomfortable, and really don’t work well from what I’ve observed.)

  64. Free Meerkats*

    I also recommend groups.io . Back when Yahoo Groups was shutting down, I moved my active work related group to Groups.io as at the time it was the best alternative. From what I’ve looked at, it still is.

    We’re on the paid version (~$120/yr) and have roughly 2000 members. We make heavy use of the files section. I started the group in 2000 and about 2 years ago transferred ownership when I retired.

  65. Buddy*

    I’m ina. group that does events and discussion and we recently switched from a Facebook group to Heylo. It’s an app similar to discord or slack but with a focus on events. I’m not sure if your group is just online discussion or if there’s also in person organizing, but I’ve so far found Heylo to be perfect for my group

  66. Stuff*

    My father’s workplace very harshly restricted how he could manage his diabetes, and as a convicted felon working in one of the few jobs that would even take him and pay him something approaching a survivable wage, he couldn’t afford to complain about his rights being violated. The end result is that he was dead from complications at the age of 55, and his employer immediately moved on without him. I don’t know if there’s anything else I need to say. This is about people’s long term health and life expectancy, not about taking on some momentary discomfort over a sense of professionalism.

  67. Bitte Meddler*

    #4 – I had a similar conversations with… conservatives… when the COVID payments were rolled out. They were all up in their feels about “undeserving” people getting “free” money.

    They always manage to completely forget what all those “undeserving” people do with their “free” money. Like shop at grocery stores. Or get a flat tire fixed. Or pay their utilities.

    And they forget that the grocery store owner, tire shop owner, and utility company need that income to keep operating.

    And if the grocery store, tire shop, and utility company continue to have a steady stream of income, they can pay *their* employees a steady stream of income, which in turn means those employees are buying groceries, patching tires, and keeping their lights on.

    Cut off one part of the intricate web of the economy, and you risk the whole damned thing collapsing.

    2. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

      You’re assuming they care if it collapses or not. I really think there are quite a few who don’t.

      1. Bitte Meddler*

        True, that.

        But the ones I’ve spoken to do care. They rely on Social Security or their adult child owns a fishing camp and rents out cabins. They know that if the economy collapses, they’re screwed.

        Or, rather, they know it when it’s pointed out to them.

    3. Dek*

      Will Rogers said it best:

      “The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands.”

  68. RagingADHD*

    LW2, unless your coworker is pulling their entire shirt off over their head and waving it around like a bullfighter, you can avoid seeing “so much of their skin” by managing your own eyes.

    1. Unpleased*

      Thank you. It’s like people are unaware that diabetes means a really important part of the body isn’t working or works inefficiently and that’s kind of a big deal.

    2. Ari*

      I had a similar thought—why are people staring at each other so much? I spend most of my day focused on my computer. People could be parading naked behind me and I probably wouldn’t notice.

    3. Head Sheep Counter*

      They were meeting with a client. Where else would a client look other than at the person the meeting is with? It would be shocking to come to a scheduled meeting and have someone whip out their flesh and stab it.

      Folks aren’t advocating crazy things here…. they are advocating a mild amount of being polite and saying excuse me.

      1. Dogwoodblossom*

        OK, but “shocking” and “whip out their flesh and stab at it” are deliberately provoking phrasing. What people are saying over and over is that this is a medical thing. If you weren’t expecting it, you might be surprised for a second. But then you’d go “Oh, it’s a medical thing.” That brief moment of surprise isn’t a horrible wrong being inflicted upon you, just like if somebody comes up behind me in the breakroom and startles me, we can both go “oops” and move on with our lives. It’s just not a big deal.

        1. Craig*

          the only thing I can think of here being an issue is if the other person has never heard of insulin injections before and thinks you are a junkie shooting up at work.

      2. RagingADHD*

        The LW specifically said that they, personally, don’t want to see “so much of” their coworker’s skin, which is either a wild exaggeration of how injections are actually done, or a pretty gross piece of body shaming implying the coworker is fat and therefore disgusting.

        As is your comment about “whipping out flesh,” actually, which makes it sound like someone is dropping their pants and exposing themselves.

        An insulin needle is less than half an inch long, at most, and some are less than 5mm. Pinching an inch of skin on the side of one’s stomach is not “whipping” anything out, nor is it an excessive or inappropriate amount of skin to show in public. If they don’t want to see it, they don’t have to watch, since they are clearly familiar with the routine by now.

        I’d also point out that there is nothing in the letter about the coworker failing to say “excuse me” to clients. That was entirely made up in the comments.

      3. Head Sheep Counter*

        I was replying the the same language as the commenter. Personally I would have been surprised if the colleague had been dramatic at all… but when at a bullfight… one responds as a bullfighter???

        1. RagingADHD*

          You seem to have failed to grasp the point that the person doing the injection is *not* behaving dramatically, and therefore the LW should easily be able to ignore it. If you don’t actually think they were behaving dramatically either, what exactly are you disagreeing with, unless simply for the sake of disagreeing?

  69. Nat20*

    Lots of responses already about this but I’ll add to the chorus that as a type 1 diabetic myself, having to leave the room for every single injection (or site change for pumps & sensors) or blood sugar test or whatever is unsustainable. Most type 1s who have to do it so often, every single day, can be done with the shot in seconds. Waiting for the “right moment”, hauling supplies to the bathroom or whatever, and taking a shot in a cramped and inconvenient space just adds unnecessary time and hassle, even if it’s not super urgent — and sometimes it is.

    I have real sympathy for those with phobias of needles and blood, but I’m sorry, the diabetic’s immediate physical health will always take priority over other people’s comfort. People who are uncomfortable with it can look away, and the diabetic can give some warning as a courtesy. I always do, but I’m done with giving shots in bathroom stalls or jeapordizing my health by politely waiting for people to leave.

    Diabetes is stigmatized enough already. People taking the medicine they need to literally stay alive through the work day should not be. Which means understanding that visibly taking insulin at work, including in front of clients, should not be an issue.

  70. DJ*

    LW#2 I’m diabetic but fortunately don’t have to take insulin but if I get to that stage would prefer somewhere to inject in private. But I get not in the bathroom given hygiene and nowhere to put equipment. That’s where having a private room for prayer, pumping etc works well. But generic small business an extra room may not possible.
    I guess if I had to inject just before eating vs 30
    Mins before there’s times I’d have no choice. What if you are in a restaurant and need to wait until the meal arrives. I’d hopefully be able to do it unobtrusively ie have drawn up in the needle in advance but who knows what options there realistically are.

  71. DiabeticSaysNo*

    I’m diabetic myself and use auto-injector pens in my stomach myself and I would have a huge problem with a coworker randomly giving themselves an injection of either type in front of me with no warning. I agree that the bathroom isn’t the right option, but go to a conference room or a free office.

  72. someone*

    2
    Do you even have a private space that isn’t a bathroom? I wouldn’t ask them to inject themselves in a communal bathroom.

  73. Sir Galahad*

    #4: I work in the public sector at an analytics company, and I was just laid off effective next Tuesday. There are other factors, but one of the big ones was the federal spending freeze. The US government is our biggest client and universities (as a group) are the second biggest, and a huge chunk of university funding comes from federal spending. It’s pretty horrible to be in the DC area right now, jobs market wise, even when looking at private employment.

  75. It's Me*

    LW5: Chiming in to second Discord. If your folks are all professional and already using Slack, that service is comparable. For encrypted discussion, Signal is also useful.

    Alternatively, if you’re feeling retro, LiveJournal still exists.

  76. Kathy L*

    For type 1 diabetes-in terms of the obtrusiveness/speed/visible skin showing when using the pen injectors you can see Ed Gamble use one if you search up the YouTube video “James Acaster & Ed Gamble Judge Posh Snacks | Snack Wars” at 8 minutes and 10 seconds into the video. (I’ll link it in a reply-but links don’t always go through)

    It’s very fast and pretty much in real time although they cut away at the actual moment of injection, but you can see it takes him less than a minute to set up the pen, inject, and put the pen away, and even though he lifts his shirt to inject a person viewing from the front wouldn’t really be able to see anything.

    You can see where it’s much easier/faster to just turn away from people and do this at your desk that try and walk and find another room that may or may not be available right when you need it

  77. Indigo*

    For LW#5, based on the needs you’ve described, I think Dreamwidth would be ideal for your discussion groups. It’s basically a reboot/code-fork of LJ (LiveJournal) but non-profit and no advertisements. It’s also pretty old school internet in style so it should be pretty familiar if you were doing social media back in the early aughts.

    It has restricted-access communities and posts, and a post-tags-comment format, unlike Discord’s channels-messages-replies format. You can also control access and permissions for particular posts and users on a pretty fine-grained basis, if that would be helpful for you, and in particular, subscriptions and access to posts can be controlled separately, unlike LJ.

  78. Nightengale*

    Wow I guess I am really in the minority of diabetics. Before I got my pump I would never have done an injection in front of anyone and did use the bathroom. Maybe it was because I used a syringe, not a pen. My hands aren’t strong enough for a pen. I do check my blood sugar in front of people (and have been told this was unprofessional). Checking my blood sugar and eating something if needed is much more time sensitive than taking insulin.

  79. furloughed*

    I don’t normally comment, but I was recently furloughed from a private company that does some work with the federal government! So I can attest that this has started to happen already.

    My specific situation is related to the fact that they’re not paying any contractors for USAID work already done before the stop work orders were issued.

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