my employee gets huffy when we play music in the office

by Alison Green on February 24, 2025

A reader writes:

We work in a completely open plan office, and are a PR/ creative services agency. There are separate meeting rooms, and two banks of unused desks round the side of the kitchen which feel slightly separate from the main seating area and are often used for hot desking or ad hoc meetings.

We are mandated in the office three days a week. The guidelines are for everyone to be in Monday and Wednesday (these are our anchor days), and for teams to make an effort to choose the same third day to maximize the chances for in-person working on office days.

We’re a small staff of around 25, so on some days the office can feel incredibly quiet. For the last six months or so, on and off, we’ve been playing the radio from a small Alexa speaker, which is controlled by whoever has taken the initiative to turn it on, and plays local radio stations or old school pop playlists. The speaker/radio was introduced following widespread feedback to the Employee Council after returning to the office that the environment was dead, with a specific request for music to played in the background.

Despite majority support, there are a few people in the office who dislike having music in the office (understandably, can’t please everyone!), one of whom is my direct report, Julie. Whenever the radio is turned on, she visibly/audibly is annoyed and often abruptly packs up her desk and moves to the co-working area for the rest of the day, without saying anything to the team. The manner in which she does it could be read as passive-aggressive, and her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null.

Julie has previously formally complained to me about the music (in writing), and I handled it by speaking to her in person to explain that while I understood her frustrations, the music is not on all the time (about 10% of the time I’d say, since it’s often forgotten about) and that as an office, we want to be creating a “buzzy” atmosphere and the music is part of that and a specific request from the majority of the office. I also told her she’s welcome to leverage the co-working space when it feels too much, and that she can always speak to me if she feels the volume is too loud (personally, the HR manager and I don’t feel it is), so I can ask the person in control that day to turn it down.

However, her huffy response each time the music comes on is starting to become really obvious to everyone in the office, and I worry it’s setting the wrong expectation of how we should interact with each other to her new employee, who only joined our team a few months ago. I think what jars the most is the lack of communication when she heads over to the other desk and the way it sets the tone from her for the rest of the day.

Is there a better way for me to handle the situation? For what it’s worth, Julie listens to music in her headphones most days as standard throughout the day, and has previously vocalized that she’s unhappy working from the office due to her commute and would prefer to work from home.

It’s not okay to be repeatedly huffy at work … but it’s impossible to tackle this without acknowledging that a lot of people would have trouble working with music on! It’s not unreasonable if Julie finds it tough to do that. And the fact that she listens to her own music through headphones doesn’t change that; people often have a certain type of background music that they can work easily with, while having a harder time focusing with something different. (One easily understood example would be someone who finds classical music helps them focus, but music with words breaks their concentration. The same can be true of music you know well — which might fade into a sort of pleasant background buzz — but less familiar music intrudes on your focus differently.)

If you’re someone who can’t focus with certain types of music on but is told you have to be in the office “to be more productive” … well, that’s going to grate. And if you raise it to your manager and are told, essentially, “too bad because everyone else likes it” and “we want a buzzy atmosphere” … it’s going to feel pretty bad, like your ability to focus and do your job is less important than other people’s desire for “buzz.” (That’s why typically music in an office is one of those things where a veto from any one person should be decisive — especially when other people can use headphones to listen to what they want.)

All that said, you’re in office that sometimes plays music and it doesn’t sound like that’s going to change — and Julie does have a space she can move to where it’s quieter. You’ve heard her out, you’ve told her the music is there to stay, and you allow her to move when she needs to. It’s reasonable to expect her to do that without obvious huffiness.

To be clear, I’m sympathetic to Julie’s frustration. I’d find it hard as hell to write in the conditions you describe. But being obviously huffy about it every time she moves isn’t okay either. If she’s that upset, she needs to either revisit it with you or conclude the conditions of this job aren’t ones she can work with.

That said … how huffy are we talking about? If she’s rolling her eyes and sighing heavily and storming off, that’s not okay and you should tell her she can’t do that. (Be prepared for her to be frustrated that you’re telling her to stop disrupting others but not stopping them from disrupting her … but if that happens, you can point out that injecting anger into a shared work environment is not the same thing as playing music.) But if it’s more that she’s quietly picking up her things and moving without saying anything … that doesn’t seem like such a problem. What real benefit is there to her announcing she’s moving every time? (If anything, it might be more disruptive if she declares it every time.)

Again, obvious huffiness/frustration is not okay. If that’s what’s happening, I would say it this way: “I’m sympathetic to it being harder for you to work when music is playing, and I fully support you moving to a quieter area when you need to. I also understand why you’re frustrated. But when you roll your eyes and slam your things down, you’re making the work environment uncomfortable for others in a very different way. Again, it’s fine to move to a different space if you need to. I just need you to do it without the visible display of frustration.”

But you should also recognize that you’ve put her in a situation where she’s required to work from an environment that would be tough for a lot of people to focus in.

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  1. JS*

    I sympathize with Julie, a lot of people would not want music on for a variety of reasons. I really resonate with Alison’s comment “be in the office to be productive” but then have music which may impede that.

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    1. Tammy 2*

      Right, and then the remedy is to move to a different, private space–she might as well be working from home if the environment in the coworking space is pushing her out.

      OP mentions Julie saying she prefers to work from home–this is probably why.

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      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        OP also says that Julie doesn’t like her commute, which I also totally understand. I suspect that Julie isn’t going to be staying at this company for very much longer, because being forced to undertake an annoying commute only to then be unable to concentrate at work because of something your boss is able to control but won’t because “some people really like this thing which is driving you to distraction” is pretty much a dealbreaker, IMO. If Julie is a great worker and you want to keep her, I’d suggest to OP that you allow her to WFH more often or stop with the office-wide music playing, because she is absolutely going to find a new job ASAP if you don’t solve this problem for her.

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        1. Johnny Slick*

          Yeah… this one seems destined for a follow up that reads “out of the blue, without any warning whatsoever, Julie found a job at a different company and left after giving her notice”. Big deal or not, this is probably not an ideal environment for her and if Julie were the letter writer she’d likely be told that her boss dismissing her asks and then getting peeved when she moves to a location still within the office where the distraction isn’t there is probably enough to start wanting to polish up her resume.

          I feel like the “acting huffy” part is also doing an awful lot of work. I can’t just outright say that LW is overstating Julie’s attitude but maaaaan I’m not sure I’d ever have been okay with a company sticking with an annoying thing because it’s “buzzy” (and is playing oldies / inoffensive pop music really that youth-coded?). I do feel like if she was doing hard sighs and saying OKAY LOSERS IM GONNA BLOW THIS POPSICLE STAND, we’d have heard specifics, not “she’s being huffy”.

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          1. Prefers Non-Buzzy Workplaces*

            Yeah, to me her response seems to be part of her overall dissatisfaction with the job and its parameters than just the music itself. I’ve previously worked in places that were fairly “buzzy” and they tend to ignore workers who are more introverted and prefer a quieter work environment. Hope Julie finds what she is looking for.

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          2. BlueCanoe*

            I know we don’t have much info on her behavior, but sensory overload can easily be read as “huffy” by people who don’t understand or don’t have much experience with it.
            It doesn’t excuse rude behavior, but does help to explain it.

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        3. Dan R*

          I would absolutely be actively looking for a new job if I was told I needed to waste my time commuting to the office, and then when I was there, conditions were created that made me feel much less productive than when working at home.

          It just speaks to a total disconnect between upper management work (which does often require lots of collaboration and in-person communication) and most other kinds of work, where people suddenly found themselves much more happy and productive when we started working from home.

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          1. Worldwalker*

            So totally this.

            If I’m expected to somehow be more productive (at what, besides warming a chair) by being in a certain place, that place should not then impede my productivity!

            My husband and I have opposite background sound requirements: he wants silence, and can ignore minor distractions; I need some kind of ambient sound, or every little thing—the furnace coming on, a car driving by, a cat going through a catflap — breaks my concentration. When he first started WFH in the pandemic, this was a nightmare. The solution I found was noise-canceling headphones. (Cheap ones from Wyze) Now I have “bone phones” — bone-conducting headphones that I found at Sam’s Club, which allow me to hear things around me (like the phone!) while still getting my music or ambient noise.

            But if she has to retreat into noise-canceling headphones, what is the point of her being in the office in the first place?

            What is the benefit of this “buzzy” environment? Especially for anyone who is not a bee?

            What effect does it have on her to be constantly told that she has to be in an environment that impairs her ability to work, her job is dependent on that work output, and nothing is going to change because she isn’t as important as the people who like the music?

            Yeah, the odds are very high that she’s going to find a job where she’s considered as important as her peers.

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        4. Tammy 2*

          Yeah, I am imagining needing to do a horrid commute just to work by myself in a conference room all day because I can’t work productively in my assigned space. Yuck.

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          1. Clisby*

            If I were told I had to commute in to work in person in an open office, I’d have been ecstatic at being allowed the use of a private conference room all day. However, it’s not clear to me Julie was being offered that. It sounded to me like she was able to work on the bank of unused desks that apparently are away from most of the desks, but not sure it would shut out all the music noise. If Julie actually being offered the use of a conference room all day, she should be thanking her lucky stars.

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        5. Blackbeard*

          I’m 100% with you (and with Julie) on this.
          I worked in a office where someone decided to be the “office DJ” so he put music through loudspeakers. The. Whole. Day.
          HR was at large, and our manager was on sick leave for burnout – due to issues with the employees – for months. So the only solution I found was a pair of noise-canceling headphones, which completely isolated me from the office. Also, wearing them for hours was unpleasant. On top of that, my colleagues were blatantly incompetent.
          I quit shortly after, even before having another job lined up.

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          1. XX*

            At my last job, someone put a speaker in the bathrooms hooked up to their playlist. I turned it off whenever I used the toilet because, frankly, if you’re that self-conscious of the noises you make in the shared bathroom, use the accessible one!

            Then they renovated the bathrooms and installed speakers in the ceiling so you couldn’t ever turn them off. I was so happy when we all got sent home by covid.

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            1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

              I would never put music in the bathroom… but I’d not make it A Thing either. In the end, the time one spends there is fairly short and the business there does not require a crazy amount of concentration.

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            2. Lacey*

              I worked in an office where they decided that we all should have speakers by our desk that piped in the same music.

              I turned mine off immediatly, but it wasn’t a large office, so I could hear the music from 2 others desks near mine.

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          2. JB (not in Houston)*

            Yeah, I need background noise and listen to music all day long, but alone in my office. With headphones. I would not subject other people to my musical choices, and I could not concentrate if I had to listen to someone else’s music all day.

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        6. Workplace Sherlock*

          I have a commute I don’t like (about an hour each way due to heavy traffic), but it’s easier for me to bear the commute if I have a good in-office experience. On weeks when I’m mostly keeping to myself and working independently, the commute feels a lot harder than it feels on weeks when I’m doing a lot of collaborative work and getting in-person interaction with my coworkers. I think a lot of people can deal with a bad commute to have a good in-office experience, but if you have a bad commute AND a bad in-office experience, that’s going to become unbearable eventually.

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    2. Chas*

      I agree, especially when OP mentioned that they sometimes listen to local radio stations- I can’t stand having to listen to breaks in the music or DJs chattering! (And I find it’s the sort of thing that I can’t easily just block out with headphones, because my brain prioritizes listening to the talking voices instead of the music I’m trying to drown it out with. At least when it’s JUST a song my brain recognizes that it’s not something I need to pay attention to).

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      1. Lacey*

        Yes. I do work where I actually can listen to chatter *some* of the time.

        But it has to be specific tasks. And if it’s a task where I have to focus it would be incredibly difficult for me to hear inane dj jokes and still do my work quickly or correctly.

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        1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

          This. I put on “music for programming”, mostly ambiance sounds, when I need to focus in an otherwise distracting environment. Soundscapes are fine, any words are likely to throw me for a loop.

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      2. Your Former Password Resetter*

        And all the ad breaks!
        Nothing will ruin my concentration faster than a series of loud, high-energy sound bites designed to grab my attention and manipulate my opinions and spending habits.

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        1. Dahlia*

          Spotify can be bad for that too if you don’t pay for premium. Lately one of my most common ads is a very loud voice saying, “LET’S TALK ABOUT SYPHILLIS.”

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      3. Joana*

        One of the popular radio stations in my area has some of the most obnoxious DJs I’ve ever heard, the kind who are laughing at themselves like every ten seconds. They’re only one part of the day, but the station proceeds to play parts of their show all day so you have to listen to it at random. If I had to work with that I think I’d want to dig my ear canals out.

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    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Absolutely. I was recently on a project that involved a lot of people working in an open area, and one person suggested we needed music. I was very glad to not be the first one who said we’d find that disruptive and perhaps she could just use her earbuds instead.

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      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        That’s what caught me about this letter. The office allows headphones (as they should, I listen to music all day. I don’t understand anyone in an “I sit in front of a computer all day” being told, no, you can’t use headphones. But that’s another letter.)
        I think OP is trying too hard to make turn the mandated “we want people in the office to work better” into “we want everyone to be a big family.”
        Most people like it.
        She wears headphones anyway.
        These indicate that OP wants this employee to get on board.
        OP, why?

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    4. Ex-Prof*

      Agreed. I’m another Julie. After a lifetime of being “the problem” because I can’t concentrate when there’s noise going on, I’m likely to get a bit huffy about having my needs constantly sidelined, too.

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      1. Ex-Prof*

        In fact, letter writer, imagine if you were told there were sometimes going to be tapdancers on the desks. If you didn’t like it, you could move over to one of the hot desks by the kitchen.

        When the tappers climbed up on your desk and began their routine, you might express some feelings of impatience as you gathered up your things and cleared out.

        Yes, it’s that distracting for some of us.

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        1. Chirpy*

          Same. We have overhead music at work (the worst possible mix of classic rock and country) and while I’m mostly used to it, I didn’t realize how much mental energy it took to drown that out until the day I realized how great and productive I felt…right before the manager came on the radio to apologize for the music being off! I truly felt so much better with the music off.

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    5. DrFrog*

      Exactly. And “old school pop” at this point is very likely 80s music which would drive me bat sh!t crazy in about 30 seconds.

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        1. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, hate to break it to DrFrog, but ’80s songs were considered “old school” when I went to HS in the ’90’s.

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    6. Beth*

      Absolutely. In Julie’s shoes, I’d probably be handling it with noise canceling headphones–Alison and OP are right that overt huffiness isn’t OK at work–but I really relate to the frustration she’s feeling. I have a really hard time with audio processing in a space with a lot of background noise (hearing loss runs in my family, and while mine isn’t at a diagnosable level yet, it’s not my strongest sense). Having the radio on would make it a lot harder for me to do the things that in-office days are supposed to be good for, like focus on conversations with my team. It would be frustrating to hear that the space feeling ‘buzzy’ is more important than me being able to work effectively.

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    7. Momma Bear*

      There are times I don’t mind noise. There are other times it is physically uncomfortable to listen to noise. We have a piece of equipment that hums. When it’s on for an entire day, I take lunch out of the office to reset. Think of a noise that annoys you and then sit with that for 8 hrs and try to be productive. I’m no longer in an open office but I have worked in them/cube farms. It’s hard sometimes when your coworkers are noisy.

      I think if the issue is that her leaving is pointed, that can be addressed. If LW wants her to announce where she’s going, then fine. LW seems way more worried about the perception than the problem. Julie is struggling and LW doesn’t seem very sympathetic. LW might want to consider why it’s so important to have Julie as a butt in a seat if it really doesn’t improve anything other than LW can say she came to the office. Why can’t Julie telecommute? Might be the easiest way to handle it.

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    8. Tired*

      Quite frankly, being in the office substantially impedes my productivity – masking takes a lot of energy, dealing with social interruptions takes energy and derails tasks, commuting is hard. I can’t imagine choosing to work in an open plan setting – for me, music would be trivial on top of all the other discomforts, and might even help a little if it masked out some of the people sounds, but I can understand it being the last straw for someone else. We’re all different, which is why open plan offices are a one-size-fits-some working environment.

      Presumably Julie has the sort of fancy earphones that don’t mask out other noise whilst playing her own music, or is required to not mask out the noise of the room, so doesn’t have a technical means of not listening to the annoyance?

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    9. Honey Badger*

      The point of being in the office is to work, not listen to music and create a breezy atmosphere. People can put in one earbud and listen to what they want.

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    10. LaminarFlow*

      Massive +1 to this! I can’t work with music on. It is just too distracting. Classical or Pure Moods CD style are both fine for me, but anything with lyrics makes it impossible to concentrate. And, since it is a radio that is being listened to, hearing the annoying commercials would be really distracting, and would probably make me pretty huffy.

      If the company is seeking a “buzzy atmosphere” try raises, more PTO, better benefits, or a more flexible WFH policy. Turning on a radio sometimes is just kind of annoying.

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  2. Dawn*

    Open offices suck and so does being forced to listen to other people’s music.

    She can’t be acting the way that she is, but as for how she feels about it, I genuinely do not care what your justifications are, I entirely understand how she’s feeling – I can’t work with any music on either, regardless of volume. I can’t concentrate, and I can’t understand anything anyone says to me.

    Personally if I were Julie I’d be looking to move on from this role, but could you at least invest in a decent pair of noise-cancelling headphones or earbuds for her if you’re going to make her sit through other peoples’ music? You don’t actually have to be playing anything on them to get the benefit and I often use my Airpods Pro this way.

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    2. juliebulie*

      Same, all of this. Hell, a few times I’ve had to leave stores without buying anything because the bland but intrusive ambient music made it impossible to think and make decisions. The anger/frustration I feel is involuntary, so I can understand Julie’s attitude. And to be honest, I’m not sure if there is a way she can move to a different area without someone taking it personally.

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      1. Mad Scientist*

        Your last sentence is spot-on. People tend to take it really personally when you try to opt out of a shared experience that they enjoy. Julie could be tiptoeing away as politely as possible, and someone would still get annoyed at her for it.

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        1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

          OP, ask yourself: is the problem that Julie isn’t collaborating or is it that she is not validating YOUR choice about music in the office? If it’s the latter, you should ask yourself why you feel the need to get her agreement on this topic.

          BTW, as a manager for many years, I would never allow music in the office unless everyone was onboard.

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    3. LadyMTL*

      The OP says that Julie does have headphones on. I get the impression that she just hates it when there’s music playing and doesn’t react appropriately (and I say this as someone who WFH and who never plays music…I prefer quiet.) If she’s stomping around and making comments under her breath, for example, that’s not a mature way to act, especially not around new employees.

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      1. Mockingjay*

        I use headphones to listen to music at a soft volume during work. But not always. Sometimes it helps my focus, other times it’s a complete distraction. (How many of us lower the volume in the car in difficult driving conditions to focus?) Other times I just don’t want anything stuck in my ears. And quite frankly, I loathe pop music. Always have. It would GRATE on me.

        Same advice as Alison: huffiness is not an okay response, but OP, please, PLEASE reconsider your office “vibe.” It’s likely not as welcome as you think; employees tend to agree with bosses when they sense management is gung ho on a new policy and not open to feedback.

        If you want to foster teamwork, music is not an effective tool for collaboration – you see that already with Julie physically moving to another area to focus. So what would help? Talk to Julie and the team – ask them what they want and need to do their jobs and function together. It might be that they had everything already, but music adds annoyance and distraction, disrupting team connection.

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      2. cottagechick73*

        I would question the volume of the music in the room. It may be that Julia is wearing headphones but can still hear the music from the speaker. That would be especially grating. I cannot hear two noise sources at once without wanting to shove my fingers in my ears and scream – think of the radio and the TV on at the same time/same volume, two different radios playing in the background where it just sound like a lot of mismatched murmuring. In a situation like this, it feels like my brain is listening to both sources simultaneously which is distracting and infuriating. If this is the case, is there a group that actively plays the music on the speaker, and another group that doesn’t participate and is kind of meh about it. It could be the answer is to switch the desks up so that the music volume fades across the open room so that people like Julia can have less noise and the music listeners do not have to strain to hear the music.

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      3. Miss Chanandler Bong*

        I kind of wonder if Julie is neurodivergent. Because I am, and honestly, this situation would absolutely drive me up a wall.

        When I was in middle/high school, our bus driver listened to country music. I absolutely cannot stand country music with a few exceptions. I would put in my earbuds, and it would still make me crazy when I heard it. And as a neurodivergent person, my reactions probably seem extreme to an onlooker, but it’s because it’s like nails on a chalkboard.

        Not to mention, I don’t do well working in an office anyway. The lights are too bright. I find the side conversations from coworkers distracting. I feel like I can’t stim without being watched, which I need to do in order to focus. There’s additional smells that are unpleasant. I can’t fidget or get up and walk as much as I need to because people are watching. I just overall am more productive at home. And if I have to be in an office, I need earplugs or my own music (which a previous boss took exception to before I was diagnosed *sigh*).

        I’m not saying Julie is for sure neurodivergent, but somewhere in this office there is a neurodivergent employee and the music is probably sending them over the edge.

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      4. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        I felt Alison addressed this in her letter. Julie stated she had a problem. OP minimized her issue (other people like it) and refused solutions (you have to be here).

        So I see why Julie snapped and is working in another area. But HOW she goes about that is critical.
        She can’t pout and stomp away. She needs to use her words and tell OP that sucking it up is not working. OP needs to hear that Julie needs something else. Move her permanently. Set up a “if you work with the group at your desk from 8-10 on anchor days, then you move to the other area.” or maybe in the afternoon if she’s not on pressing stuff. Just something to compromise.
        OP, you can save Julie from blowing herself up if you work with her.

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        1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

          It’s hard to tell from the description, but I wonder if OP is overestimating Julie’s “huffiness” because Julie visibly dislikes this thing that (supposedly) everyone else likes and she’s deliberately removing herself from the (supposedly) buzzy energy in the office. If OP sees this as a referendum on the OP’s own choices, or the choices of management that OP agrees with, OP may be seeing Julie as more huffy than she is.

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          1. L.H. Puttgrass*

            Yeah. According to the letter, Julie gets “visibly/audibly is annoyed” and “abruptly” packs up and moves “without saying anything.” LW says that “[t]he manner in which she does it could be read as passive-aggressive,” but I’m sure that if Julie did say something to the team, the LW would somehow find fault with that, too.

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      5. Cat Tree*

        Loud music (or commercials) outside competing with the music in my ear buds is miserable. It can be very hard to block it out.

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      6. Dawn*

        I’m drawing a line there between “Julie has headphones” and “Julie has a really good pair of noise-cancelling headphones”. I worked in consumer electronics long enough to know there’s an emphatic difference.

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      7. Workplace Sherlock*

        When I put on headphones to try to drown out someone else’s music, I always get a headache. You either have to use noise cancelling headphones (I have chronic sinusitis, so noise cancelling headphones hurt a lot of the time) or crank the volume on your headphones up to an uncomfortable and probably also unsafe volume.

        It’s entirely possible that she has her own background sounds that she can listen to productively, but the ambient noise of music in the office is interfering with her ability to hear it through her headphones.

        Again, if she really is stomping or slamming things, that needs to stop, but the LW didn’t give a full explanation of what she means by “huffy,” so we don’t actually know for certain that Julie is doing that.

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    4. PhD survivor*

      Honestly, music in a shared office would be a deal breaker for me. I would not be able to get anything done and I could not work in that job. OP, I’m surprised that you are prioritizing music over your employees actual ability to be productive. It sounds to me like you don’t have any empathy for your employee since it doesn’t affect you personally. But how would you feel if your work environment kept you from being productive and your manager basically told you they didn’t care? Your priority as a manager should be your employees ability to be productive and achieve results and you should help facilitate that, not impede it.

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        1. Snow Globe*

          I would assume that for those people, music is a preference, not something they require to be productive. That’s why I don’t think this should be a “majority rules” situation.

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          1. Hohumdrum*

            Eh, I mean I require background noise and music to be productive. I’m not saying that therefore would cancel out Julie’s needs (I have headphones for a reason!) but I don’t think we need to dismiss the idea that some people do actually need noise in order to focus just to support Julie’s equally important needs. Maybe OP needs to start by purposefully separating the space available into a quiet zone and a music zone and let employees set up for work accordingly.

            FWIW, I’ve also come up in group living situations during school, and now I’ve spent my career working in public institutions where there is constant loud background noise from music and yelling children, so honestly since about high school or so I’ve never really had the option of a quiet workplace . Lots of folks I know in the same situation learn to tune out the music and noise eventually, which I say not to suggest that anyone HAS to do so, but just that if you are stuck in a noisy workplace you can grow accustomed to it if leaving isn’t an option for you.

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        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Yes, but “multiple people” isn’t “everybody.” People who want music can have their own personal music. People who find it distracting can’t always have their own personal quiet space. I’ve used earbuds with “ambient noise” videos to drown out others’ music, but it’s not always effective.

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          1. Worldwalker*

            I once worked for a small company where I shared my office with 3 other people, all of whom had different tastes in music. (My boss was one of them, and he liked…elevator music) Our solution (and this tells you how long ago this was) was that we all got Walkmans. We could all have our own music.

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        3. Caramel & Cheddar*

          Yeah, this comments section (myself included) skews towards people who would hate this immensely, but obviously LW works with a bunch of people who are the opposite of most of us here. That’s not necessarily a point in favour of continuing to play the music, just that it’s another data point to consider. It’s not like LW’s office is playing music in an environment where every single person there hates it; people have requested it.

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        4. Beany*

          It’s not clear to me why those people can’t just listen to music through their own headphones.

          But if you really want a communal office buzz through shared music, then it’s no longer fit for a percentage of the workers. I’m honestly surprised the number is so low in this case, even in an office of only 25 bodies.

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          1. Caramel & Cheddar*

            I assume part of the reason for piped in music vs headphones is the communal aspect, i.e. we’re all hearing Pop Song for the 40th time today or something super nostalgic comes on and everyone gets excited about it, etc. You can’t really get that with headphones. That’s not a justification for this, just that I can see a difference between the two.

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            1. Slow Gin Lizz*

              Yeah, this makes sense. If you want a communal buzz feeling, earphones will absolutely not achieve that. It sounds like Julie actually doesn’t want that communal buzz feeling, though, which probably means she’s a mismatch for this office. OP should think about whether the communal buzz is more important than retaining Julie as an employee – this might be one of those situations where employees who don’t like the music will opt out and your office culture will become one where everyone likes the music. But is that a good thing? Plenty of AAM letters discuss how you should be careful about hiring only employees who fit into whatever culture you want to perpetrate. If you hire only the music listeners, will you be missing out on the Julies who are able to do something or give a viewpoint that the music listeners aren’t?

              Tread carefully here.

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              1. AnonForThis*

                Anon incase its too specific, but my office has a ‘Friday jukebox’ playlist where people take it in turns to put together a playlist (usually themed) on a Friday & then people (optionally!!) listen to it on their own headphones. That gets at least some of the shared buzz without it being forced on anyone :)

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                1. Different Anon for This*

                  Something that worked really well in my workplace was playing Spotify’s “Music League”. Their quick explanation of what it is: “a league is made up of rounds, and each round has a theme. When the round starts, you can submit a song that fits the theme.”

                  So everyone submits a song around the theme “Summer Jams” or whatever, and then once everyone has submitted, it creates a playlist everyone can listen to. You also get to vote on the songs (you don’t know who submitted what until voting is over), though that may be less fun if you have a lot of very competitive people. You can choose from default categories or use your own, which is fun when it’s someone’s birthday or someone gets a promotion, etc.

                  The benefit of this is that it is something communal that you can also listen to on your own headphones.

                  I can’t tell you how much this did for both morale and for team building. It was such a surprising thing that brought folks together, but it really worked.

                3. Librarian of Things*

                  This sounds like an excellent solution. The folks who like the music can share a playlist and listen in, while the folks who don’t . . . don’t.

                  On the other hand, if you have everyone in headphones, why are they all in the office? I’d definitely want to see how much spontaneous collaboration is really happening vs. together-but-alone time. If it’s mostly working independently in one room, maybe cut office days to 1 or 2.

          2. Sarah With an H*

            I’m someone who likes having background noise (whether it’s music or people chatting), and I find it distracting when it’s super quiet. Wearing headphones isn’t the same to me because then it stops being background music since it’s going right in my ears (also they get uncomfortable after a while, but maybe I am just overly sensitive?). This is one of the reasons I’m so glad I’m able to WFH because I can go to a cafe with background chatter or put on my own music at home.

            That said, I super empathize with Julie here, and I don’t see how you can have music playing in an office of more than a few people that isn’t disruptive to someone, because people are going to find different music helpful or distracting.

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          3. Worldwalker*

            Back when I built websites, I’d have clients saying that they wanted music on their sites. Before I even started on rights, etc., I’d ask them to think of the last time they were in a music store (they were still a thing). What percentage of the available music would they like? They’d usually say about 10%. Then I’d point out that everyone has a different 10%, so if they put music on their website, 90% of their users would dislike it.

            That saved me a lot of discussions about IP and licensing.

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        5. PhD survivor*

          Sure but it’s creating an environment that is exclusive to employees who can’t work that way. The priority should be creating an environment where everyone can be productive and achieve results for the business. If people prefer music, they can always wear headphones but someone who can’t work with noise may not be able to do much to drown it out. Usually headphones or earplugs can’t completely block the background music. Why is a few people wanting music more important than the entire groups productivity?

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        7. Slow Gin Lizz*

          OP also said that several people don’t like the music, so it isn’t just Julie. It’s just that the others probably aren’t being huffy about it the way Julie is (and I agree with OP that Julie needs to stop being huffy about it).

          True story: I once worked for a boss who’s one and only rule was “no music in the office.” He said he’d once worked somewhere where people got into fistfights over the music being played, which may or may not be true but I can absolutely see that happening somewhere (especially given all the insane letters I’ve read hear on AAM).

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        8. Beth*

          Sure, but is “multiple people think this is fun” more important, in a workplace, than “some people can’t work effectively with this”? One of those feels more important than the other.

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        9. Lisa*

          Just because more than one person wants something doesn’t mean that we do that thing. There are some things that we take majority rule on, and some things that we don’t.

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      2. A Poster Has No Name*

        That’s a bit harsh, given that the OP didn’t make the call to have music and the majority of employees said they want it.

        It doesn’t sound like the OP has the authority to make the call on the music, and to do so would end up prioritizing Julie’s ability to be productive over others, which doesn’t really solve anyone’s problems.

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        1. MigraineMonth*

          I think the question is, prioritizing Julie’s ability to be productive over others’ what, exactly?

          If others want to listen to music, they are allowed to use headphones. It seems unlikely that there are people in the office who can’t be productive or collaborate without music over the speakers, since it’s only on 10% of the time. So it’s probably a preference, rather than something that affects their work output and ability to take advantage of the office for collaboration.

          Prioritizing the preferences of the majority over the work needs of the minority is not a virtue. Prioritizing buzzy vibes over actual productivity and collaboration is not good management.

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      3. Music Listener*

        I personally enjoy having background noise/music while I work (total silence makes me antsy) but not playing music in a shared space just seems like common courtesy. It’s easier for me to wear headphones at work and listen to music privately than it is for someone to block out noise.

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    5. Mentally Spicy*

      My people! I’m exactly the same. There is no “background” music with me, it’s all foreground. I find it impossible to concentrate on anything because my brain wants to focus on the music to the exclusion of all else.

      You know what? I don’t even blame Julie for getting huffy. She’s complained about it in writing and she’s been told to, essentially, suck it up. She’s been told that they want a “buzzy” atmosphere. (“Buzzy” sounds like it would be intolerably noisy to me.) She’s been told that they’ll turn it down if she complains (although they don’t actually think it’s too loud). And, on top of that, she’s been told she has to be in the office, sit with her team and, essentially “deal with it”. I think I’d be huffy too.

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      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        Bingo.

        I’m definitely huffy in a shared open office when its “buzzy”, especially when I’ve specifically noted from the get-go that I do not work well in this situation. Telling me to complain in writing, and then not doing anything except tell me to suck it up?

        Wearing headphones all day is literally causing me headaches and ear pain at this point.

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      2. Showmest8ofmind*

        Same for me. I nicely asked for music to be at a low enough level in a shared office so that customers weren’t asking if I was at a party. I was then labeled as “difficult.” Music in a shared space is tough for a lot of reasons

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        1. anotherfan*

          wow, did that bring up a memory. I asked people we shared an office with (they were ads, we were news) if they could turn down the radio while I did phone interviews (my desk backed up to their separation counter) and they complained to HR I was ‘intimidating’ them.

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        2. Dawn*

          I worked in a corporate retail store where we were expected to have music on all the time, but not only did the employees pretty much all hate it, we lived in an area that was predominantly retirees and they all hated it, too. Anytime it was on we got complaints that they couldn’t hear/understand us – which I sympathize with!

          None of which made the slightest bit of a dent on Corporate who insisted that even if the customers all hated it, the music had to remain on to maintain our “image”.

          Of course we always shut it off the moment that the Corporate inspectors were out of the store. Whatever happened to customer satisfaction over “brand image”?

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      3. Indigo a la mode*

        The thing about a buzzy office – which can have incredible energy, especially in a field like journalism or PR – is that the buzz comes from PEOPLE. People collaborating, people taking calls, people laughing at the water cooler. Voices overlapping into a buzz of background noise.

        This is not a grocery store. Music does not make an office buzzy if the lack of buzz comes from the fact that the office has lost community since COVID, and contriving buzz that way is just kinda sad. (For context, I’ve been working remote since COVID and miss being in a great, fun office culture.)

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        1. Tired*

          Here’s a thought – might there be some kind of non-music background noise that worked better? Since it sounds like it’s only an issue on the team day when the office is mostly empty, and that emptiness is what the music is trying to fix, would some kind of white noise or ambient sound soundtrack be a compromise? Something like “coffee shop vibes” might help create that feeling of people being around without having the variety and “personality” of music which creates much of the problem (e.g. words/no words/annoying genre/breaks between songs/DJ chatter etc.).

          Some days this sort of sound works very well for me, and it’s always less annoying than “music I didn’t choose” or anything with adverts. At least discussing it might show willingness to seek a compromise to meet more peoples’ needs…

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      4. No open offices*

        Buzzy atmosphere comes from proper collaboration and working together in-person around a white board – not music.

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      5. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        Yeah, I agree totally.

        Remembering a language lab I worked at. The two most stressed out bosses I’ve ever worked with, kept imposing stuff to induce a stress-free atmosphere. Fragrances were sprayed around, the students complained so I opened the window. Then I had to have the radio on. The students complained, so I turned it off. The boss wrote me up. So next time I turned it down so that only I could hear it at my desk.
        A language lab. People listening and repeating and listening to their recording of what they were repeating to see if they said it like the original recording. Music. How do these things go together??? ^^

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      6. Shirley Keeldar*

        Employee #1: Hi, Boss, I have a problem—the office is so quiet! Can we do something to make the atmosphere livelier?
        Boss: Sure, have some music!

        Employee #2: Hi, Boss, I have a problem—I can’t focus with music on. I can’t do the work I’m here to do. Can we do something?
        Boss: Sorry, nope, you’re stuck with it.

        Yeah, honestly, I’m huffy just reading about it.

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      7. Le Sigh*

        Yeah, and then be told “you must look acceptable to me” after registering your complaints is wild. Let people have emotions. I know folks around here are perfectly professional at all times and are very sensitive to perceived slights, but huffing isn’t yelling. Frustration isn’t a bad thing. It tells us that something is wrong. It lets you know someone isn’t happy with you. It sucks, but then you know to fix it.

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      8. Dawn*

        Any time some manager starts talking about the “atmosphere” I immediately and involuntarily start rolling my eyes.

        Create a workplace atmosphere. Because that’s what it is. You’re not the next Apple or whatever.

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    6. No open offices*

      Open offices suck and so does being forced to listen to other people’s music.

      I fully second this. Many studies have shown that people are bad at multitasking and that interruptions can result in as much as 20 minutes of lost productivity. The music is a distraction that is harming this office’s productivity. Those who say they work better with music on are often very poor workers, disengaged from deep work.

      Those who disagree and absolutely must have music should bring their own headphones.

      Julie is right to move to a co-working area to maintain her productivity and minimize distractions. Frankly, she should be managing this team, not LW.

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      1. iglwif*

        Absolutely.

        The range of musical genres and styles and eras is VAST, and people’s tastes in music are equally vast, and that’s before you factor in the fact that this is music played while people are working.

        I once worked in an office where for a while the department next door (and by “next door” I mean “there was a shoulder-high wall of filing cabinets separating our open office from their open office) had commercial radio on all day, and I have never had so many murderous thoughts at work as I did during that period. This was at the time when The Bodyguard was a current movie and that horrible Whitney Houston song was playing on that radio station several times a day. And I had to answer the phone, so noise-cancelling headphones (even if I’d been able to afford such a thing back then) were not an option.

        I think our department head must have given their department head some kind of ultimatum, because the radio stopped being constant.

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      2. BridgeofFire*

        Multitasking is a myth. People can’t literally do two things at once, what they can do is more or less efficiently switch between multiple tasks at the same time. This may seem like semantics, because “everyone knows” what they really mean when they say they are multitasking…but it becomes important when people “multitask” between things that take a lot of concentration for each (that’s why distracted driving is bad), or for people who have issues focusing (So you’re working on a project, and a song comes on that grabs your attention, so you start listening to that instead).

        All that to say, it’s not even that people are bad at multitasking, it’s that literally multitasking isn’t possible at all, and people who claim to be excellent multitaskers are either just quite good at focusing and not getting distracted, or overestimate their ability to not get distracted.

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        1. Tired*

          or can efficiently micro-task, switching from thing to thing to thing smoothly and quickly (I’m AuDHD, on days when the ADHD is strong and the brain squirrels are over-stimulated by work thoughts I CAN’T do just one thing at a time for many less inspiring tasks, but I CAN do three things if I do them in 5 minute bursts rotating among them as thoughts strike me – and I get plenty more done that way than I would if I tried to focus on one thing and kept getting distracted by non-work thoughts/experiences).

          Or I’m not so much multi-tasking as parallel tasking – some of the squirrels are listening to the radio, some are checking the data in front of me, the rest are sort of chilling out wondering what’s for lunch, and if something anomolous or interesting happens on either track, the squirrels pop up and shout at the rest of my brain to come look.

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          1. BridgeofFire*

            Oh, geez. I completely feel that last paragraph. And yeah, I forgot about the microtasking element of things as well. That’s essentially what multitasking efficiently is to me. You’re getting the stuff done quickly, but it’s not being done literally all at the same time. One example is at one of my jobs, where I worked as a front of store attendant. I’d bring in carts…and then I’d switch to cleaning the bathroom, then back to carts. I wasn’t bringing in carts and cleaning the bathroom at the same time, I was just switching between them with as little disruption as possible.

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          2. Aggretsuko*

            I probably have ADHD and I agree that I do get more work done and stay interested in it if I can switch back and forth between things. (She says, working on writing documentation while reading this and listening to podcasts.)

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      3. hohumdrum*

        Uhh hey, I work better with music and consistently have gotten stellar performance reviews, I am not a poor worker and I’m not disengaged from deep work. NGL I feel kinda offended by your comment here. Julie’s needs are important and deserve to be met, you don’t need to be dismissive and look down on others who have different needs in order to do that.

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    7. Bradley C Kuszmaul*

      It’s not just the inconvenience of having to move. It’s the loss of flow. It may have taken her an hour to get into the zone and now she has to do it again.

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      1. BridgeofFire*

        Oh, that too. I still remember a hard lesson I learned during my not-so-successful attempt to join the military (long story short, basic training and chronic depression do not mix). The worst shift for night watch wasn’t the hour before normal wakeup. It was the one before that. Why? Because it was still losing that hour of sleep, but I was LUCKY if I managed to get even 15 minutes of sleep after that before having to wake up for good because my body just didn’t get back into sleep mode instantly. Minds, generally speaking, do not switch instantaneously when a routine is disrupted.

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  3. Antilles*

    about 10% of the time I’d say, since it’s often forgotten about
    Wait, if the music is so unimportant that you only have it on a tiny fraction of the time and often forget it’s even the music is an option, why do you even keep it knowing that it’s so annoying to your employee?
    Feels like going from that 10% down to 0% should be pretty trivial.

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    1. Leave Hummus Alone*

      Seriously, or say it’s only going to be played on Thursdays [pick a day] and make sure Julie and others who don’t like the music can work from home that day

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      1. overcomposer*

        This was my suggestions as well. If you’re really set on playing music sometimes, have a schedule – maybe even less than a full day like “Thursdays after 1 PM” so that Julie can plan accordingly and it’s not a surprise every time.

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      2. Jester*

        I was going to suggest picking a day, too. Way before working for home, I worked in an office where we played music on Friday. We used an app where anyone could add to the playlist, so everyone got a say in what was playing.

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      3. K Smith*

        The ‘Music Thursday’ idea is a great one! It can be a team building day/incentive for the Music People to come in on Thursdays. And the Quiet People like Julie (and others – OP there are definitely other people like Julie who hate the music and get less work done with music on) can avoid coming in on Thursday. Easy Peasy!

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    4. StressedButOkay*

      This! I think it’s time to confirm that headphones are allowed but the Alexa playing music will be stopped. I’m willing to bet there are more folks than just one irritated by music playing or what’s being played – she’s just showing it more.

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      1. MigraineMonth*

        Yeah, if you want an office with a lot of collaboration where people don’t wear headphones all the time, you have to give your employees private offices.

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      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        OP even says in the letter that there are *a few* people who don’t like the music. So, ok, Julie is being a bit childish in her response, but Julie’s points are valid and it also sounds like she’s just being the most vocal employee about her objections to the music.

        How about…have one of the non-core days be a “play music out loud” day and Julie can opt to stay home that day? Have the required in-office M/W be quiet days, and make sure you only have one day a week with music, which should please the folks who want the music, and make sure whichever optional day Julie comes in be a quiet day. Or, don’t get offended when she leaves the open area to work somewhere quiet. In fact, why not make the section of the office she retreats to be the official “quiet area” for all the folks who need quiet to work?

        I am very music-sensitive (as an actual musician – most of us are this way) and have a very hard time concentrating with music playing, but I too sometimes am able to listen to music depending on the music and the work I’m doing. For instance, right now when I’m doing a very mindless task, I can listen to music without words; as soon as I switch to reading something I need to concentrate on, I need the music to stop. However, I’ve also realized that I concentrate better on reading with a little white noise, which if I were in an office would mean I would be wearing earphones. To the outsider watching me, they might think I’m listening to music; my point here is that “someone wearing headphones” doesn’t necessarily mean that someone is listening to music.

        It’s also curious, OP’s point about the fact that they sometimes forget the music is playing. I have noticed that some people absolutely do NOT notice background music at all, and some people might notice it on occasion and not notice it in other occasions. Other people might find it impossible to tune out. My point here being YMMV WRT how much you hear the music, and OP needs to respect that Julie hears it all the time to the point of distraction whereas it seems like OP doesn’t even notice it. I also wonder if OP would notice if it weren’t on – are you distracted by vast silence, OP? That is also a valid experience, but in that case you should solve it by wearing headphones, not distracting your employee by forcing her to listen to your music.

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        1. Beany*

          I don’t know. Music Thursdays sounds like Hawaiian Shirt Fridays to me — a fun, relaxed departure from office norms (depending on your definition of “fun” and “relaxed”), rather than a boost in work quality or productivity.

          If the music is deemed necessary to produce a good working environment for most of the people, then it doesn’t make sense to restrict it to one day to protect Julie. If Thursday becomes 15% more productive than any other week day, then management would be foolish not to make other days more Thursday-like.

          I’m 100% on Julie’s side, BTW. But I don’t think we’d be having this letter & discussion if the music was just an occasional office perk.

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        2. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          Yes wrt tuning out or listening full on.
          I can’t not listen to music and I’ll end up dancing and singing if it’s stuff I like, or getting huffy if I don’t like it.
          I know people who can totally tune it out and don’t understand in the least why I can’t concentrate.
          I remember seeing a film with a friend and remarking afterwards that it was a bit eerie to see a film without any music except one moment when a character performed a song. The friend said “wait, what do you mean? there’s music in films normally?”
          My mind is still boggling at that 30 years later.

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          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Whoa, that is mind-boggling! I had an officemate at my last in-office job who listened to music on her earbuds all day every day. I have no idea how she concentrated doing that, but she said she absolutely could not work without music. The important thing here is that she wore earbuds and I couldn’t hear any of her music. She was an ideal officemate.

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    5. Ping*

      This poor woman. Being forced to be in an office for work that likely doesn’t benefit from it. Never knowing when music will be on or not. Never even knowing what music it will be or if there will be ads and/or DJ talk (local radio being annoying). People deeming that you’re upset when you move quietly to the other area. (Assuming she’s not being rolling her eyes and slamming things and such.)

      And yeah, cutting out the music entirely should be an easy step. If there are those who think the office is too quiet, they can listen to music on their own headphones. The desire to have your office feel a certain way shouldn’t trump the best interest of your employees!

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        1. Lady Lessa*

          I agree with you both. And the styles that the LW mentions are those that would make me want to permanently damage the speakers. For background, it should either be easy listening or classical. And silence might be the best option.

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  4. Someone Else's Boss*

    If working in the same space is so important that you have to choose the same day of the week to work, then it should be important enough to forgo music so that Julie can be a part of the group. If, in fact, being in the same space is not that important, let Julie work from home so she doesn’t have to move around a random building all day just to please the king.

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    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      This.

      If the collaboration is important, then you need to focus on that, not playing music because the majority want it — but don’t seem to really care if music plays since its only 10% of the time.

      Obviously she can’t be showing obvious annoyance, but you need to manage the entire situation not just her.

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    3. Dinwar*

      That, or be willing to lose her. I don’t hold that Julie’s dislike of music trumps other people’s desire to have music–different people differ, and I imagine the people who want music are just as passionate about wanting it as Julie is about not wanting it. I’ve been in workplaces like that; you either enjoyed the music, dealt with the annoyance, or left, because everyone else liked it. (I know of one place that shut down because a particular band was coming to town and literally every employee was going to the concert.)

      This falls under “culture”, and is one reason it’s so important. Neither needing music nor needing silence is inherently wrong, they’re just mutually incompatible. Not every workplace is a good fit for everyone, and sometimes the rational thing to do is say “Look, this isn’t working out, here’s someone who’s hiring in this field, looks like a pay raise too.”

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  5. No Tribble At All*

    Turn. Off. The. Office. Music.

    You can pipe a small amount of white noise through speakers if you want the office to sound less harsh. But please. Why do you want your office to sound like a hotel lobby playing Muzak? Bleugh

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    1. Amber Rose*

      I’m actually curious, among the people who hate music being played in the office, how many of them hate noise generally or music specifically? Because like, ocean waves or the sound of the rain are nice but I’m not sure if they’re less distracting.

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      1. Required*

        I would absolutely hate general office music being played, but I do not hate noise or music specifically. In fact, I listen to my own music through headphones without issue, so it’s not just a noise thing.

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        1. Jillian with a J dammit*

          Same. I actually NEED noise to focus and always have – when I was a kid I had to have the stereo or TV on to study, and now do the same when I work from home. But random music that I don’t like would be annoying. I guess I’m lucky I’ve always worked where there was enough background noise from the people around be to keep me productive.

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        2. Sloanicota*

          I like music with no lyrics and not too fast a tempo to work. Classical mostly, or soundtracks are good. If someone is talking (singing), I can’t tune it out / stop listening to the words unless it’s VERY quiet, a lot quieter than most people want to listen. I agree with others: is it actually important the office is “buzzy” if the music is really only on 10% of the time? Could you choose a “music day” that’s easier for Julie to opt out of (so not one of the mandatory days) or a certain afternoon that she’s excused to go work in the group area for? How important is this really compared to having happy/productive employees? Other employees can always choose to listen to their own music so it’s not like you’re cutting them off. That said, plenty of retail spaces have annoying music 24/7 and presumably staff accepts this or adjusts.

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      2. Anonym*

        Music would be way, way more distracting to me than white noise or nature sounds. But any noise being played constantly is obnoxious. My old office had white noise, which was easy to ignore while it was on, but my ears would ring when I left.

        Keep it quiet, let everyone wear headphones if they want.

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        1. Amber Rose*

          I thought that was just me. I can tune out white noise mostly but as soon as it’s off my ears ring and I get a headache.

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      3. But Of Course*

        I sometimes play a “medieval tavern sounds” YouTube designed for ambience in role playing when my space feels too dead. It’s calm and unobtrusive in the same way nature sounds are designed to be easily filtered or unobtrusive. Evolutionarily, I think, it’s easy to identify those kinds of noises and forget about them.

        Music is a problem because of the lyrics (if I don’t know them I can’t avoid focusing on them) and the tempo, which may not match what I’m trying to do.

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        1. a clockwork lemon*

          Heh–my DM does that and I’ve never been more grateful for tab-level mute functions. I absolutely cannot handle being on a call with other people trying to listen to them talk while other sounds are coming through my headphones at any volume.

          Weirdly, I am one of the people irl who doesn’t register ambient music OR conversations happening around me. I prefer to have music going while I’m working, so my solution for in the office was to buy some inexpensive open-ear headphones so I can listen to music but also still hear if someone calls my name or walks behind me. They ended up being so awesome that they’ve replaced pretty much all my other headphones for everything except air travel.

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          1. But Of Course*

            There’s something so magically terrible about music on Zoom! I’m in a couple standing meetings where the hosts start with music while people are coming in, and I’ve taken to being precisely three minutes late so I don’t have to listen to tinny, buzzy (in the technical sense) “pump you up” music. We’re going to talk about tax policy, Rebecca, we don’t need to listen to Eye Of The Tiger to get excited.

            At the same time, the instrumentals my Sunday Zoom writing group plays are great. I have no problem tuning them out, and the sound quality comes through well. I’m not sure if it’s something about the music or what.

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        2. Sloanicota*

          Man after this comment I fired one of these up to listen – man, it’s a lot of slurping/chewing sounds! I had to turn it off haha.

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      4. Not here for the music*

        I sit next to the electrical room. I didn’t notice the sound until people started saying, “Wow, it’s really loud over here.” It actually helps drown out the office sounds, because they become really obvious to me when the electrical room gets quiet. So true white noise I can live with, but nature sound recordings would be almost as bad as music to me.

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        1. Chas*

          I’ have a similar view of the white noise- I sit in a lab because it’s usually quieter than the 8-person office that was my other alternative, and most of the time I don’t notice the hum of the machines in there. But recorded bird/nature noises drive me up the wall (mostly because of how artificial and out of place they sound when I’m listening to them in a science lab).

          Personally, I find I can tune out music, so long as it’s music I’m already familiar with, so I keep a playlist of instrumental music (mostly videogame soundtracks) to listen to while working on days when there’s noisier machines on or people decide to have a conversation on the other side of the room. But having to listen to random music I’m not familiar with, or radio DJs would drive me ballistic.

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      5. Thegreatprevaricator*

        Personally, I can’t do executive function heavy tasks with music on. I absolutely need to have some form of white noise on though if I’m doing certain tasks. Music is for other tasks and I’m a) picky b) very distractible. It’s part of my reasonable accommodations to have headphones, but it’s not a point of conflict. This is because I am in the office 1-2 days a week and that means I can manage my tasks so that my collaborative tasks fall on an in office ‘team day’ and my deep work tasks are often best done at home where I can control the environment. Our office is buzzy on team days, and pretty quiet on other days. We do not need music to make it buzzy, and if I want to listen to any noise I do it through my headphones so as not to disturb colleagues. The letter feels like a problem has been created that doesn’t need to exist by mandating time in office, without thinking about why…

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      6. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

        Then you have a white noise problem. It puts me incredibly on edge! I wish it didn’t, but an hour of that would have me screaming.

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        1. Astor*

          Yup, and it puts me on edge in a way that I don’t always recognize the source so wouldn’t know to articulate.

          At my current job I sometimes have bad mornings at work sometimes and then the receptionist turns off her fan and I suddenly realize why I’d been struggling. I can hear it, but I don’t consciously process it.

          So now I know I need to wear earplugs/headphones on hot days, but that also makes me less approachable. It’s a frustrating trade off.

          But if my building always sounded like that, I don’t think I’d realize what was going on other than that I always felt terrible at work.

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        2. sb51*

          +1 it feels like pressure or water in my ears. Actual recorded nature sounds are fine, and I even don’t mind loudly snoring humans as long as they’re not having apnea and choking. But any of the “color” noises and a lot of fans are unpleasant.

          (Interestingly, I don’t mind airplane hum that much, and find noise cancellation headphones on planes actually sound more grating than the raw noise. Brains, man, they’re weird.)

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      7. Polaris*

        Its not that I hate the sound – its that I do pretty high concentration level work and my ADHD is unpredictable in that “waves and ocean sounds help today” but tomorrow may be another story completely. Music is even more so, and honestly, given what DOES work for me the most frequently? You don’t really want to play 90s alternative and hip hop in an office, do you? Honestly the best solution (other than NOT having an open office, because as mentioned elsewhere, they SUCK) is to keep it quiet and let everyone wear headphones.

        I should not have to beg my provider to increase my level of stimulant medication due to an open office when what I’ve been using has been fine for a decade or more. Let me wear headphones and keep it quiet.

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        1. Dek*

          This one.

          Hell, sometimes what helps me focus on a particularly concentration intense task is playing a single song over and over again, but I don’t think most of the office would like “Cabinet Man” or “Mummer’s Dance” on loop for an hour.

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      8. Indigo a la mode*

        I think it’s an agency thing as much as anything else. Sometimes when I’m driving, I suddenly get overwhelmed with noise and need to turn Spotify off and sit in silence for a bit. Sometimes I want to play one inspiring song on repeat for an hour to hit a flow state. I find white noise very grating in general but every once in a blue moon, it’s just the right thing. Sometimes I can totally tune out whatever’s happening and enjoy being in the “buzz” of a Starbucks. Like now!

        But the critical component there is that *I* get to decide when the atmosphere changes and what’s going to work for my focus on any given day. Not being able to control when the music is on or what sound it is isn’t going to work for a lot of people in a shared space where they have the right (and the mandate) to focus.

        In general, I think we should strive to make office desk areas as non-distracting for the average person as possible and let people make their own atmosphere at their desks.

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      9. Beth*

        I think it would be kind of weird to be playing white noise in an office (what’s the goal?) but it wouldn’t bother me. That kind of noise is designed to fade into the background. Pop music, on the other hand, is designed to grab your attention. And the radio, with DJs talking periodically and commercials and etc? That’s almost as bad as TV for distraction!

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        1. Guacamole Bob*

          The goal of some white noise systems is to reduce how much sound carries across the space. I think one of our office locations has it (though it could be very steady HVAC noise?) and phone conversations from five desks away are much less noticeable, and colleagues talking quietly among themselves are harder to overhear. But the tradeoff is the way it gives some people headaches or just generally puts them on edge.

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      10. Dontbeadork*

        Rain or waves are much easier to tune out than music, even music I don’t actively hate. Being forced to work with music I don’t enjoy is far too distracting for me to accomplish anything. Even music I like won’t fade into the background enough for me to give all my attention to whatever I’m working on.

        So glad I’ve retired now and this kind of thing isn’t an issue anymore.

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      11. Annisele*

        It’s not specifically _music_ that I hate to be played in the office, but _words_ – doesn’t matter if they’re spoken or sung. Many years ago I had a job as an audio typist, and since then I’ve found that if I’m listening to a recording while I’m typing then I’ll end up typing the words I hear.
        I can filter out people’s conversations just fine, but if I get distracted I’ll find half a line of a lyric pushes its way into a sentence about something else entirely.
        If the audio is in a language I don’t speak at all, I can usually manage to ignore it. But if it’s in a language I speak poorly, that’s even worse than in English; my brain gets stuck on trying to work out what was said.

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      13. Librarian of Things*

        I’m not at all interested in music (at least, music with words) while I’m trying to focus. The constant zhhhzzhhh of a white noise machine makes me homicidal. BUT I find the “natural” office hubbub of ringing phones and active people to be the kind of buzz I do like (maybe because my first professional job was as a court clerk and that was the environment). The repetitive whoosh-slide-thump of a copier is a very soothing sound to me.

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      15. Aphrodite*

        I loathe forced music, even my favorite classical piece. I do not listen to music in the car or at home (excepting for occasional times in December for carols but don’t play it at all unless I am alone). I really, really hate music of any kind in an office or store. Online shopping yes! Physical stores, extremely rarely if ever, now that I don’t have to deal with their music any more, Trader Joe’s being an exception that I try to get in and out of quickly. At work, I have a private office so thank god it is dead silent in here all the time. Calm, quiet peacefulness is my bag.

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    2. Madtown Maen*

      For some people white noise can be as bad as or worse than music. If people need music or background noise, it could be a good option to let them wear their own headphones or earbuds.

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    4. ThatGirl*

      We have some kind of floor-wide white noise going (I’m not really sure how it works; it sounds like the HVAC running at a low volume, but it’s definitely distinct) and you really notice on the occasional days it stops – it’s TOO quiet. But yeah, I’ve worked in dead-quiet offices, noisy ones, ones with music playing – the music was annoying. We all hated it. Give me white noise and the option for my own headphones any day.

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    5. Elizabeth*

      Please don’t use white noise this way. Individuals with hearing loss often have auditory compensations their brains have put in place to manage the missing sounds. This resembles white noise. The additional white noise can cause what can be interpreted as auditory hallucinations as the brain is reacting and trying to adjust.

      Source: The audiologist who has assisted me with retraining my brain now that I have hearing aids.

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    6. Just saying...*

      My spouse’s office added white noise pipped through speakers a few years ago and they didn’t communicate the decision they just turned it on. My spouse could figure out why they developed headaches every day for about 6 weeks. Eventually their body got used to it an now when they’re in the office (3 days) they no longer get headaches

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  6. Bob Parlocha Fan*

    I have a funny feeling this is tangentially a lot about RTO. You’ve told her she has to come in to the office to be productive, and then present a working environment in which she finds it hard to be productive.

    When I was in college I used to write while listening to Bob Parlocha, because I find instrumental jazz very conducive to work. But the moment a vocal number came on, I knew it was time to take a break. That song with lyrics would totally ruin my concentration.

    So I totally understand where Julie is coming from. The RTO situation is frustrating. (And what does “buzzy” mean? I have no idea what is implied there. I wonder if Julie knows.)

    Her anger and frustration is not appropriate, but still, I get it.

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    2. Leslie Knope*

      Whether or not Julie’s behavior even rises to the level of “anger” is difficult to tell given that OP seems to be annoyed that Julie isn’t announcing to the whole office when she relocates to the conference (which she was invited to use!) I’m not sure OP is the most reliable narrator here on what constitutes “passive aggressive” behavior, either. Continuing to play music in the open office setting is itself passive-aggressive, particularly when headphones are an option for everyone.

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      1. Paint N Drip*

        Second the potentially-unreliable narrator, it’s giving ‘on Wednesdays we wear pink’ or other nonsense.
        Why can’t Julie use the other (offered) workspace??? Is she supposed to apologize for ‘leaving’ or something? I feel for her, RTO and being forced into an uncomfortable and likely less productive workspace. I suspect the whole situation is the butting of heads between introverts and extroverts – working in creative spaces often incurs the risk of opposing personalities potentially clashing

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      2. No open offices*

        I’m not sure OP is the most reliable narrator here on what constitutes “passive aggressive” behavior, either.

        +1

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    3. mango chiffon*

      I’ve personally found my most productive work days to be the ones I spend at home! My in office days are so much more distracting and slow because I have to travel around, or there are people chatting or maybe even I am chatting. But I get way less work done in office.

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      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        Yup, I find that when I’m taking calls in the office (because a majority of my meetings are still over zoom, sigh) I get asked/have to mute because they can hear the sounds of the office in the background. I never have that issue working from home.

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    4. JustaTech*

      As for what “buzzy” means: I think in the context of RTO, it means the sound of many people being in a place where they aren’t being boisterous (like a bar) but also not trying to be very quiet (like a library).
      Like the difference between a train station right before the train arrives and right after it leaves.

      I have noticed that my office is much, much quieter after COVID than it was before, mostly due to having a lot fewer people in the space (layoffs), but also a change in the people who work here (some are very quiet) and also just a shift in the amount of chatting that happens (both work-related chatting and socializing).
      Several people (senior managers) have walked through and commented “it sure is dead in here!”
      So to some people it can feel like the absence of the sound of people being people is the sound of the absence of people altogether, which might sound like the absence of work.
      Which is not true, but it’s one of those perception things.

      But you don’t fix that with music.

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    6. A Simple Narwhal*

      Yup I get the feeling it’s about RTO too. We’ve had higher-ups keep insisting they want our work environment to be more fun, for everyone to have fun, we spend more time at work than with our families so shouldn’t we have more fun here??? Except everyone is disgruntled about RTO so no one wants to spend anymore time at the office or with colleagues, we all just want to get home to our families that they keep pointing out we don’t get to see as much anymore.

      You do have to swallow that on the day to day unfortunately, so while I don’t support what Julie’s doing I totally get it.

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      1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

        I love it when people say “go big or go home” because they have no idea just how willing to go home that I am. It’s the entire point of my work day.

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  7. Dust Bunny*

    OMG turn off the music, and that’s from someone who listens to music–very quietly–at her own desk most of the time. But “buzzy” is for trendy boutiques, not offices.

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    1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

      I had to wonder how loud that music has to be so that 25 people can hear it. That would seem pretty loud to me.

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        1. Dontbeadork*

          OP said it’s an Alexa speaker, so can those connect to have multiple speakers playing the same thing? Otherwise it’d be awfully loud if you were near the speaker, less so if you were at the edges.

          I wonder if having Julie sit as far from the speaker as possible would help her be able to work without having to move, or maybe just let her work longer before she has to move to keep productive.

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      1. anotherfan*

        to be fair to the OP, they did say it was a marketing business, iirc, which is a different animal than, say, a lab or law office, so they want whatever energy comes from bodies at constant motion. But like someone above said, that comes from people, not music.

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    3. DrMrsC*

      My office is open plan with 18 desks, every so often the “we should play music in here” comes up. Fortunately, there are enough of us with social capital to shut that down asap reasoning distraction, changing ambient volumes during the day, and most important, the BIG divide on musical tastes. Everyone is welcome to wear headphones/earbuds at their desks and many do just to decrease the noise level of general chatter without even having audio on.

      I love the comment, “buzzy is for trendy boutiques, not offices.” A+ and 100% agree!

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    4. Lemons*

      Yes, I laughed at this! I have been in several creative office environments where management (never the ones doing the actual creative work) want to “create a cool environment” with disruptive things like music playing.

      Like, a cool ‘buzzy’ environment isn’t needed to create cool, buzzy work, an environment that’s conducive to collaborative, supportive creative work creates cool, buzzy work. An event planner would not need to do their work in the mosh pit of a music festival in order for it to be good.

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    5. iglwif*

      Agreed!

      And even then … I will leave (and have left) shops where the music is too loud and frantic for me to focus on what I’m there to do.

      If the music seems loud through my noise-cancelling earbuds, shop employees are likely risking long-term hearing damage. Just saying.

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    6. Ellis Bell*

      I really would like OP to reflect on that word and exactly what it means. I love music but I can’t imagine trying to make a whole office listen to whatever someone dictates. Reactions to noise are so varied it’s a recipe for absolute disaster. People who want music need to either have headphones on, or it needs to be on in an optional space that people move to (not are driven from).

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  8. Amber Rose*

    I keep a small speaker in my office playing music at like, sound level 2, because a tiny bit of sound is nice.

    That said, I have never been able to cope with music I dislike. I’m not really sure I know why country music makes me want to rip out my ears, but there you have it. I’d probably also struggle not to show my anger, because it’s not a a rational feeling so it’s harder to deal with.

    I wonder if you could ask her if it’s all music, or if some kinds of music are more tolerable than others.

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    1. JustaTech*

      Yeah, this is the thing that’s challenging about music overall – people have specific tastes, and even when you try to find something inoffensive, it’s very inoffensiveness is irritating (elevator music/hotel lobby music).

      I used to work in a clean room (air locks and big white suits and the whole shebang) with some perfectly reasonable people and one jerk, but even the jerk abided by the rule “no music that anyone hates” – you might have to settle for something you could merely tolerate, but when you’re trapped in windowless room for hours on end you just can’t insist on music that anyone hates.

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  9. Taylor*

    Poor Julie. She’s complained in writing, she has to move when it’s on, but her boss keeps coming up with justifications for why they’re in the right and Julie is wrong. Please just turn off the music – it is physically uncomfortable to some people to work with music on and your lack of empathy shows.

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    2. Paint N Drip*

      I second the poor Julie! Complained in writing (which I have to assume was an escalation after discussing it) AND her boss is so baffled by the request that they write in to an advice column for help. I hope Julie finds an excellent WFH position, since she’s obviously searching

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    3. username*

      YES! I think it’s so important to realize that for a lot of people it really is physically uncomfortable. You think you can deal with it for a while, particularly if you can tell that’s what your manager expects, but the frustration gradually rises and there comes a point when you just have to leave and you’re not really in a state to do that quietly. If music doesn’t create this sensation for you, imagine some other stimulus that does: think about your state of mind when you rip off an itchy shirt, take off shoes that are too tight, whatever.

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    4. K Smith*

      Yeah, my sympathies lie with Julie here. Julie might not be responding in the best way (with huffiness), but Julie is ultimately in the right here. Some people just can’t concentrate well with music playing, and it’s totally reasonable for a workplace to acknowledge and accomodate that.

      OP do you want to loose Julie as an employee over this? Because there’s a strong chance that Julie is already looking for another job.

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  10. MigraineMonth*

    I think we can all agree that open offices *suck*. They do not help with collaboration or whatever they’re supposed to do. The only place I worked where I dreaded having conversations with coworkers was the open office, because if I asked my desk-mate a question it bothered 20 people.

    That said, have you invested in any noise-cancelling or white noise for the open office? The place I worked felt oppressively quiet in part because when the HVAC system switched off, you could hear a pin drop from across the room. When you have sound-absorption and sound-masking, the noises from conversations, squeaking desk chairs, and yes the radio, don’t carry as far and might be easier to tune out.

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    1. Guacamole Bob*

      Not enough offices pay attention to acoustics. The variation in overall working environment with carpet, other soft surfaces, acoustic panels, white noise or lack thereof, HVAC, etc. is huge. Some are very echo-y (industrial chic has its downsides), some are kind of muffled and dead, and there’s everything in between.

      Maybe look at other office attributes before turning to music?

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    2. Still*

      I actually love my open office: the fact that I can easily approach a coworker sitting nearby, the fact that I can listen in on conversations, both for useful bits of info and for casual chatter… I get so much more collaborative work done on my in-office days and I wish I lived closer so that I could be there more often.

      I completely understand why people dislike open offices and I know they don’t work for everyone, but I don’t think they universally suck. Combined with a flexible WFH policy they can be great.

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  11. soo*

    I am surprised people voted to have music on. Years ago, when our new then building was being built, we got to vote on having music or not, it was 90 percent no music in the results. HR was surprised, but no one else was. The music we had then was obnoxious and bland at the same time !

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    1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

      I am wondering if it really was the majority, or just, you know, the popular kids who tend to get what they want regardless of what other people want. As someone else pointed out, LW does not seem to be an entirely reliable narrator.

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      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Or if “asking” means “you like the music, don’t you?” A lot of people aren’t going to feel comfortable saying “actually I’d prefer we turn it off.”

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        1. cottagechick73*

          yes to both Bob Parlocha Fan and Rusty Shackelford – especially since many of them have seen how you treated Julia – they are opting to not complain or else they will be labeled the troublemaker, not a team player, wet blanket…

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    2. XX*

      Whoever had pull with the building manager at my old job got him to build speakers into the bathroom ceilings during a renovation so they could pump music in nonstop. It was an open floor plan so you could hear everything, and the bathrooms had been the only quiet space. Luckily we got sent home because of covid not long after. But I suspect if we hadn’t, eventually I would’ve formed a group to demand quiet.

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  12. Nightengale*

    I would definitely be Julie. I love music but can’t handle a rock beat at all and would not be able to work in this setting. Even when quiet, the beat feels like it is going right through me. I also don’t tolerate headphones. . .

    If the music has to be on and Julie has to be in the office (and really I would recommend scrutinizing both of those “ifs”) can’t Julie just work in the co-working space as a matter of course and others can join her there when they are actually collaborating?

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    1. But Of Course*

      Headphones spike my anxiety. I don’t like being unaware of the space around me, and I find I maintain a higher level of vigilance if I’m in a setting where they’re required. That’s okay for surface-level work tasks but less good for deep concentration.

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        1. Nightengale*

          yes. If only I actually tolerated having something in or on my ears. Not everyone does. So the solution to my needing to avoid sound inflicted on me can’t be that I have to wear headphones or earplugs.

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      2. Tired*

        I hate to wear headphones or ear buds in any shared space because they are always uncomfortable (I hate having my head touched and they are ALWAYS TOUCHING ME), because it raises my anxiety levels, and because they make me feel claustrophobic and trapped – none of which is conducive to work! So I find the “everyone can just wear headphones” comment is also insensitive to the diversity of human needs.

        For me, RTO to a totally open plan space three days a week would be the trigger to job search hard or seek formal accommodations to only work in the quietest corner possible when I’m not actually in a meeting/conversation with others, so I’m not the best person to comment I guess!

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  13. Properlike*

    I can’t wear headphones/earbuds all day because of pressure sensitivities. Does that mean I can make the office listen to MY music all day long?

    Of course not. Though I’d bet my ambient backgrounds would be more conducive to work than pop/rock and news.

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  14. Yup*

    I was a copywriter in an open office and it was HORRIBLE. You are required to do deep, creative, complex thinking while subject to people talking, phone calls (on speaker!), music, endless, endless interruptions. No kidding music is making her huffy. She probably can’t achieve the type of thinking needed to do her work! Your music is literally affecting her job performance and no one is taking her seriously.

    Use earphones/airbuds if you like music. Acknowledge that some people can’t work with these kind of constant interruptions and help them be able to do their jobs (office with a door, private meeting room access, more working from home, set up cubicles, etc.). Imagine having to go into work and having someone poke you on the shoulder every 3 seconds all day long. This is kind of what it feels like to fight the constant noise and actually do your job.

    I can’t believe open offices are still a thing. I though research had more than proved that they impede good work.

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    1. Richard Hershberger*

      To your last point, I don’t find this the least bit surprising. My flash of insight into the corporate world came when I realized the rule of the spreadsheet. Anything that shows up as as a line item on a spreadsheet is important. Anything that does not, is not. Office rental most definitely shows up. Good work does not. It may be reflected in other ways, but there is not line item on the revenue side labeled “good work.”

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    2. MigraineMonth*

      Open offices absolutely get in the way of quality and productivity, but they’re *far* cheaper than building private/semi-private offices, or even cubes.

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    4. cncx*

      I came here to say this, that I can only have music on at work if I am doing something rote. Anything that needs creativity or deep thinking and I can not do it with music on, it would affect my job performance.

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  15. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    I’m also curious what “huffy” means here. Loud sighs, eye rolling, and slamming things wouldn’t be cool. But it’s unreasonable to expect her not to react at all. Personally, I’d find this working environment super frustrating and I might have a subtle reaction to that. Without more detail, it’s impossible to know whether Julie is acting inappropriately or not.

    Personally, I’d also just pack up my stuff and move quietly, rather than announcing it, because I wouldn’t want to disrupt anyone else’s focus. Especially if everyone already knows where I’m probably going to be.

    Is there a possibility you’re annoyed with Julie and, as a result, not giving her the benefit of the doubt? Or any chance that the office is a “positive vibes only” kind of space and Julie is not doing only positive vibes? Obviously, I have no idea. Just a few things to consider as you decide how to handle this going forward.

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    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Side note, people generally don’t like sound when it’s something they can’t control. Julie’s reaction is pretty normal.

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    2. Zona the Great*

      And I don’t know if Alison made the title or if the OP did but if I knew my boss called me “huffy”, I’d lose respect for her.

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    3. It seems I need a name to comment here...*

      Jeez, forced positivity on top of the forced music? I wouldn’t be able to last long at all myself.

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    4. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      And as Shutterdoula said below:

      “she’s welcome to leverage the co-working space when it feels too much” and “her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null.” are in direct conflict.

      It sounds like you’ve told her she can use the co-working space if she needs to, but are annoyed with her when she takes you at your word. She can’t win.

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  16. Burnt Out Librarian*

    I can sympathize a lot with Julie, especially because you’ve got what Allie Brosh so eloquently called a “sneaky hate spiral” going on. First, you’re forced to leave your comfortable environment at home and commute to an office with other people– who bring their own set of emotional baggage and noises and germs. Second, you’re tasked with being “buzzy” (not sure what the intention is there– like bees? Is this another way of saying “busy?”) and socializing when maybe you don’t want to. And third, someone has to put on “Hey There Delilah” for the umpteenth time and you just want to scream. I would be in a mood, too, and it would be a lot of effort to suppress that after so many repeat days.

    What also concerns me here is the LW’s attitude about music and atmosphere… are you really aiming for productivity here or are you asking people to *perform* productivity? How you get your work done may be very different from how others do, and if the results are productive, why should it matter *how* they do it (in-person vs. remote, silent vs. Boppin’ to the 90s, etc.). Honestly if Julie feels resentful and that this whole thing is a farce and insulting to her professionalism… Well, there you go. She’s not going to graciously take your “deal with it.” If I were her, I might move to the quiet workspace not just to get my work done, but to look for a new job without someone asking me to play pretend three days a week between the times I can actually concentrate and work.

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    1. Yup*

      This is an excellent comment. Is it about performative productivity–looking like the office is modern, young, dynamic, and “in”? Because this might work for a place where your employees are folding clothes, stocking shelves, interacting with customers, etc., but not for an office setting where complex thinking is required.

      Reply ↓
      1. Burnt Out Librarian*

        Preserving office morale is one thing, obsessing over appearances and insisting “we’re the *fun* place to work!” is another. No one is coming to work to have fun and absorb the atmosphere.

        Okay, maybe some people do, but I’ve largely found them intolerable.

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    2. Properlike*

      These are good points. And if RTO is so important, is the solution for Julie to isolate in a separate space conducive to the goal of everyone being together in one space?

      Separately, this reminds me of my one Christmas season working retail. Couldn’t listen to Christmas music for years afterward.

      Reply ↓
      1. Burnt Out Librarian*

        I worked at a Hallmark store for two years as a teenager. We played Christmas music in September. I have a visceral reaction to most holiday music now.

        Reply ↓
        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          I’m a classical musician and holiday pops concerts are, unfortunately our bread and butter. I can’t deal with Christmas music either and wear my earbuds when shopping from Halloween until January. Somehow this year I didn’t end up playing any holiday pops concerts for the first time since I finished school (minus pandemic years) and wow, did I NOT miss them one bit.

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    3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Great comment. Especially this:

      What also concerns me here is the LW’s attitude about music and atmosphere… are you really aiming for productivity here or are you asking people to *perform* productivity?

      My guess is that “buzzy” means there’s a lot of visual activity and sounds happening. There’s energy and movement in the space. There is Stuff Happening. As someone who’s easily distractible and gets overwhelmed when I have to deal with too much visual and auditory stimulation, I’d have a very hard time working in this kind of environment. And, as you point out, Burnt Out Librarian, it is very possible to be super productive in an environment where there isn’t Stuff Happening. Wasn’t there some research a while back that found that when bosses (or maybe it was grad school supervisors?) were asked to identify their “superstars,” those people were typically the ones they saw around most often, even if those people weren’t the most productive ones?

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    4. MsM*

      Yeah, the bit about “what will the new employee think?” is weirding me out the more I sit with it. They’re not a child; if they start expressing frustration by pouting and stomping around, you can’t really blame that on Julie. And if they also start going off into a quiet corner to get their work done, or pushing back on having to come in when there’s not actually much in-person collaboration happening, or generally questioning the “one big buzzy hive” attitude OP’s trying to sell…well, that should tell OP this isn’t just Julie’s problem.

      Reply ↓
    5. Beany*

      “What also concerns me here is the LW’s attitude about music and atmosphere… are you really aiming for productivity here or are you asking people to *perform* productivity? How you get your work done may be very different from how others do, and if the results are productive, why should it matter *how* they do it (in-person vs. remote, silent vs. Boppin’ to the 90s, etc.).”

      I agree that this is likely the case — but I’d suggest that we have to consider the possibility that this communal musical background really does make some people more productive, in the same way that stable office temperatures and free coffee might.

      If it’s just for show, then Julie’s no-music preference should win, hands down.

      But if 15 of the 25 people are doing measurably better work with communal music than without, then some kind of physical separation of groups is in order.

      Difficulty: now that the music is a thing, and Julie has been identified as a Problem Employee, I don’t see how they can reverse course on the music without causing more resentment against management and Julie. I think the only solution is to assign Julie actual quiet space to work in, or let her work from home.

      Reply ↓
  17. WellRed*

    If you have to play music to create a buzzy office (un, ok, I guess), then you are doing exactly what workers hate about RTO. There’s no collaboration here, no “buzz,” it’s simply top 40 hits or whatever, it’s distracting and it sounds like no one is actually interacting. In which case, why do they need to be in the office?

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Thank you! Office “buzz” comes from people interacting in person. If their work doesn’t require this very much, and that sounds like the case given that it’s apparently deathly quiet otherwise, then why are we pretending we need to be in the office for this?

      I get that workplaces are going to RTO regardless of whether or not it makes sense, but man is it really disappointing to see a manager write in and make it expressly clear it’s not about the work or even the collaboration, but about the illusion — sounds and all — that More Work Is Being Done Because We’re In Office.

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    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Exactly. You know what makes an office “buzzy”? People actively working together. If the nature of the job is that people do the vast majority of their work solo, then buzz just ain’t gonna happen.

      (I’ll see your “I guess” and raise you a “bleargh”).

      Reply ↓
    3. Neither Here Nor There*

      This is 100% what I was thinking–I’m taking “buzzy” to mean “lots of people in a small office space, all being active, walking around, chatting, having active interactions.” You can’t force that. That culture exists or it doesn’t, and you don’t cultivate it by putting on the radio so *something* is making noise. It just, as this entire comment section seems to be trending, annoys people who don’t like random playlists going all day.

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      1. penny dreadful analyzer*

        I did actually once work at a place where the copy editing team was specifically given instructions that, if we were workshopping a piece of copy with another editor, we should unplug our laptops, stand up, walk over to the other editor at their place in the open-concept office, and discuss the copy out loud in person. Previously, most of the copy editors would handle this type of thing by instant messenger, so that we could directly send the text in question to the person we wanted to discuss it with and then we could both make edits and send them back and forth to each other until we got what we wanted. Almost all the copy editors did this because it was the easiest way to have multiple people copy edit the same piece of text. But the startup bros that ran the place didn’t want to see lines of people quietly hunkered down over their laptops, they wanted to see us standing up and walking around and talking, so we got ordered to stand up and walk around and talk.

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    1. Juicebox Hero*

      Same. 10 years in retail listening to the same insipid pop songs over and over (or worse, the Christmas music! Augh!) has made me hate background music with the fiery heat of the juices inside a breaded mushroom that are about 12 million degrees Farenheit and squirt out into your mouth when you bite into one and burn the heck out of it so badly you can’t even enjoy eating the rest.

      Julie can’t be allowed to stomp and sigh and flounce, but please respect that some people absolutely hate background music (or in her case YOUR background music) and she shouldn’t be punished just for wanting to seek out a quiet corner.

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    2. WindmillArms*

      Yes! I could easily have been “Julie” at a few former jobs. Background music I don’t want–ESPECIALLY at low volumes!–is a major misophonia trigger for me, and I had one obnoxious coworker who sometimes played quiet music over his tinny speakers. I’m a mellow person in general but I found it difficult to not freak out at him every time he tried it.

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  19. Properlike*

    Another suggestion: if you want a “buzzy” office, there are apps/websites (Coffitivity is my go-to) that create a background “bustle.”

    I love it in small doses, but then I start to hear the “loop” and then it’s all I can focus on.

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  20. desk platypus*

    People always suggest “just use noise cancelling headphones” but I’ve never liked that. For example, I use ear buds specifically so I can just use one so I can still be aware of my surroundings. It’s easier for people to get ahold of me for questions, and I can be alerted to potential office news and happenings that don’t go out via email. (And definitely gossip, which is SO valuable sometimes.)

    It would drive me up the wall to have my own music/podcast happening competing with anything else even if it was to my taste. Plus, mandatory music just gives me way too many customer service job flashbacks.

    Reply ↓
    1. Banana Pyjamas*

      I actually think one ear-bud in, one ear-bud out should be the social norm for open concept. Anyone who doesn’t cover phones would be fine to have two in for deep focus.

      Reply ↓
  21. tuxedo cats are the best*

    I worked in an office that has a TV. Sometimes it was golf on it, sometimes it was a Marvel movie. With earbuds I couldn’t tell the majority of time.

    I think with Julie, her visible not-so-passive aggressive actions to me is the bigger issues. I also come back to this:

    “ The speaker/radio was introduced following widespread feedback to the Employee Council after returning to the office that the environment was dead, with a specific request for music to played in the background.”

    Frankly why should one grump ruin it for all. Julie has a professional option to move but she is making an unprofessional choice to let everyone know why.

    Reply ↓
    1. constant_craving*

      Well, LW clearly states that Julie is not the only employee unhappy about the music.

      “Majority rules” is not how things that negatively impact productivity should be handled in a working environment. That’s not ruining things for everyone; it’s prioritizing work at work. People can watch golf and movies and listen to music through headphones or on their own time.

      Or if you really must have an office full of sound, excuse those who can’t work productively in noise from being there.

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    2. MigraineMonth*

      You’re able to tune the TV out. If I worked at your office, I would be getting paid to watch golf and/or Marvel movies until they fired me. If there is something moving on a screen, I’m watching it. (Someone *please* ban animated billboards, those things are dangerous.)

      Your “not a big deal” would lead to me losing my job.

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      1. Paint N Drip*

        SAME. Even a slight office rearrange that changed my line of sight to include the hallway has decreased my productivity

        Reply ↓
      2. Guacamole Bob*

        If there’s a TV in a bar or restaurant I have to be sure to sit so that it’s not in my line of sight or I will annoy my dining companions by having my attention continually diverted throughout the meal.

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      3. Nightengale*

        animated billboards. . . .animated displays in the supermarket. . . moving screen savers. . .. flat screen TVs in the hospital advertising hospital stuff

        the ambient environment has gotten so much more visually distracting (and auditorily distracting) over the past few decades.

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      4. JustaTech*

        This is me as well. It doesn’t matter if I’m not interested, it doesn’t matter if I actively *don’t* want to watch something, it doesn’t even matter if I’m already watching something else – if there’s a screen on I’m looking at it.
        I’m like a frog caught in the beam of a flashlight – I can’t stop staring.

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    3. SpiderPlant*

      The way I read the letter, she‘s not telling everyone why. In fact, LW criticises Julie for just moving to a different area without always announcing it (even though LW told her to do just that – move).

      Reply ↓
    4. Jennifer Strange*

      Can we not call someone a grump for not being able to work with music?

      Also: “she is making an unprofessional choice to let everyone know why.”

      Apparently she isn’t doing that as the LW complains that she doesn’t say anything when she moves, she just does it.

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    5. WindmillArms*

      It seems far more logical for the people who want background music to play some over their own headphones rather than impose it on everyone.

      Reply ↓
  22. Not a spring chicken*

    This is not a new issue. There have been fights over radios/music in offices for decades. The majority rules. Some offices might have a rotation for who gets to pick on a specific day. You just dealt with it. Decades ago, there wouldn’t have been headphones to drown it out nor other places in the office to get away from noise.

    Reply ↓
        1. Longtime Reader*

          Yeah- my desk in the 80s was in an elementary school but my mom’s office was open cubicles they moved into from a building with private offices. Even at 8 years old it seemed like a downgrade!

          Reply ↓
            1. Not a spring chicken*

              I’ve worked in multiple offices where the cube walls barely existed. Maybe waist height. I’d call those open cubicles.

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        2. Poison I.V. drip*

          “Decades ago” is a bad take. Decades ago you could smoke cigarettes in the office and smack typists on the rump.

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    2. Ye Olden Times*

      I was just thinking this! I worked as a temp in the mid-late ’80s, mostly doing data entry, but also working for over a year in a hospital doing claims processing, etc. These were all open cubicle environments. Almost every office had a radio blasting, and you just dealt with it, even if you hated the music. I didn’t have a lot of patience with contemporary country back then, but that was too bad. I’m not saying that was a better way, because it was often unpleasant, but it’s interesting how times have changed.

      Reply ↓
      2. Zona the Great*

        I have always hated the, “we dealt with it just fine and now so should you” thing. This is how generational shittiness goes on unchecked. Also, I assume headphones weren’t found on every surface back in the mid-late 80s.

        Reply ↓
        1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

          No, because cubicles come in different heights, and also, you can hear everyone in an open plan whether they’re just at desks or “hidden” in cubes. Plus not all cubicles have 3 walls–some are really only 2 walls, butting right up against each other.

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    3. Antilles*

      It’s not a new issue, but one key difference from decades ago is that there’s now a better answer.
      Majority rules for the radio station was accepted for decades because often, the only options were “majority rules radio or everybody sits in silence”. Today? Anybody who wants to listen to the radio is carrying a personal radio in their pocket and can just pop in some headphones/ear buds without any need for disturbing others.
      Bob wants to listen to classic rock while he works? Great! He can pop in some ear buds and listen to everything he wants without also forcing Julie to listen to it.

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    4. Ellis Bell*

      Is that the decade that a lot of autistic and ADHD people were just as productive as neurotypical people? Or when conformity was more important than that? I dunno, if it isn’t broke don’t fix it, but if it’s an acknowledged “issue” then I think things are supposed to get better over time, in general. If we have better tools now, like headphones, why on earth not use them?

      Reply ↓
  23. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

    This would be such a hard place for me to work! Like, if she’s slamming around and heaving giant sighs, that’s not cool, but–geez, my highly ADHD self has been so miserable in work places that were noisy or insisted on playing music. It really hurt my work, and drove me crazy to boot. And at the job where I took steps to remedy things so I could just get my job done–zero huffiness on my part, think noise canceling headphones, a not-too-loud white noise machine at my desk, and an otherwise cheery attitude–I got major pushback from my manager and felt really ostracized for not “just dealing with it.” So, y’know, I really feel for Julie here. If she’s really being a pill, definitely address it, but maybe try to have a little more sympathy for her? Like, just because YOU like it and don’t see a problem with it doesn’t mean that people who don’t experience the environment the same way that you do are wrong, or that the issues that they are having aren’t valid. Try to fire up the empathy here.

    Reply ↓
    1. Shinespark*

      Pure speculation, but I do wonder how much Julie’s “huffiness” is just her leaving situations where it’s difficult to concentrate in a not-totally-invisible way, and other feeling judged by that and defensive.

      I’ve worked places where loud laughing/football chat at the next desk was a near daily occurrence, but putting on headphones to drown it out and finish your work got you labelled as antisocial and passive-aggressive.

      Reply ↓
      1. xylocopa*

        Yes, it sounds to me like it might have reached an unwinnable point. Any way that Julie moves away from the music is now going to be perceived as “huffy” because of the history.

        Reply ↓
      2. Banana Pyjamas*

        Your interpretation is the exact vibe I got from LW’s tone.

        LW:Work over there if you don’t like music. LW:How dare you go over there! What a bad attitude!

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      3. MigraineMonth*

        Yeah, LW says she’s “visibly/audibly annoyed” when the music is turned on, which might be unacceptable. But it’s hard to know what’s wrong/passive aggressive about her moving to the co-working space *the boss offered her* other than it being “abrupt” and her not explaining why to her team? Except that I’m sure her team already knows, and explaining “I’m moving because Sam turned on music, and as you know I can’t work with music on” probably wouldn’t go over well either.

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  24. M2*

    Turn off the music! Julie told you she had an issue and probably felt like she was told, “too bad your issue is not our issue” and to move in order to work. It can be a lot to have to move all your stuff and be away from others (if that is the goal) when you’re working. Some people get in a groove and music or moving can then change that groove.

    If the goal is to work together when in the office turn the music off and let people use headphones if they want to listen to music.

    If I were a client and went in and heard random music I might move to the next agency. It sort of reads/feels like ‘dysfunctional start up’ in my opinion.

    If you keep the music let her go to the co-working space. I agree with the answer, she is doing what you said and unless every time she is actively groaning or whatever I would let it go. Honestly, reading this makes me wonder what other changes your agency might need to make.

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  25. Not here for the music*

    In this situation, the only alternative is to move desks. If I was then chastised for doing so, I would be looking for a new job. It’s like saying, “We value music in the office more than your contribution to the team.”

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  26. Shinespark*

    Oof, I’ve been in the same boat as Julie. ADHD means I can only work with music I’ve heard enough times for my brain to stop flagging as ‘new! novel! pay attention!!’. And even then, it really depends on the day.

    If Julie’s been told she needs to stay in the office for productivity reasons, but also that you’re going to make the office more difficult for her to concentrate in than being at home, *and* your solution is she gets to sit alone in a seperate part of the building… well, I’d be annoyed too.

    Reply ↓
  27. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    I had to ask a colleague to not play music at work because he liked loud trance music. I cannot be around repeating tones because it’s a seizure trigger. He went to say that he’d listen to it on headphones but even then I could still hear it.

    I complained to management but this was the Boss from Hell company whereupon they told me it was my issue.

    Thing is, there are many reasons, some medical, some mental, why someone cannot work with music on. I don’t mind talk radio (we had BBC Gardeners Question Time on for a while) at a low level because the sound of voices is very different. Maybe a non-music alternative may be acceptable?

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  28. Andi*

    This is the first letter in a long time that made me absolutely fists-clenched, high-blood-pressure furious. I might be neurospicy, but this OP is so cruel, and for no reason!
    Subjecting someone to other people’s music in an open office and making it impossible to work (or, like, even be there) for BUZZ? What in the jargon is that? What an absurd and needlessly mean decision.
    I hope Julie finds another job where people treat each other with respect and empathy, she is allowed to work to her full potential, and they pay her more.
    This place sounds like employee hell.

    Reply ↓
  29. Ari*

    My office is full of people who are on the phone all day (work related), many of whom take every call on speakerphone. Plus people are talking to each other. If someone dropped music on top of that, I would implode.

    Reply ↓
  30. Shutterdoula*

    “she’s welcome to leverage the co-working space when it feels too much”
    and
    “her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null.”
    are in direct conflict. It sounds like you’re passive-aggressive to her about this. You don’t really care how disruptive it is for her, you just want her to do things your way, but you are not actually making that expectation clear. In fact, you’re saying exactly the opposite.
    Poor Julie, forced to RTO to an annoying “buzzy” office and with a manager who says one thing and expects her to somehow magically **know** he expects the opposite.

    Reply ↓
    3. DramaQ*

      Those comments are what made me wonder how “huffy” Julie is. Is she really making a scene or is the manager annoyed because Julie is moving and therefore making the office feel less “buzzy”? and “killing the vibe” by deciding to move to a quieter workspace?

      I can handle most music if it is low enough but there is some that drives me absolutely insane like I cannot stand country music. I will put up with in my husband’s car it is his car but if I am in control I refuse to listen to it.

      If I not only had to return to office but had to listen to country all day AND be “buzzy” while trying to do my job on top of not stabbing my ear drums out I would be “huffy” too.

      I certainly know how to keep it toned down so I am not making a scene but I would probably still stick out like a sore thumb if the 24 other office people are jamming and keeping up the “buzzy” appearance of the office and then get annoyed if they have to walk a few steps to my quieter desk area.

      Then to be told by my manager to just deal with it but I can move desk if I want BUT if I do move desks I am going to get chastised for being huffy and not contributing to the “buzz” of the office I’d be using all the time I am distracted by music to find another job.

      Reply ↓
    4. Jennifer Strange*

      Thank you! I noticed that too. It feels like the LW doesn’t want to solve the problem so that Julie can work, they want Julie to enjoy the music the way others do.

      Reply ↓
  31. Ms. Whatsit*

    I think there’s a fair point on it not being so essential if it’s forgotten a lot. But I also wonder if the inconsistency could be exacerbating her frustration indirectly. 90% of the time she can work as she likes, but an unpredictable 10% is disrupted. In her case, I might prefer a consistent 25% disruption that I could predict and factor in – so Tuesday mornings I work from the coworking desks or work remotely those days. I also wonder if there might be creative solutions on who’s sitting where—does Julie’s desk have to be where it is, or can she be shifted somewhere the music won’t bother her (or not as much)? There may be a few people who’d prefer to be in a quiet section. Unless people are clustered in specific ways to allow for collaboration, maybe there are other ways to be more accommodating.

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  32. ZSD*

    If the music is only on 10 percent of the time, can you make sure that that 10 percent is only on the two days when Julie isn’t in the office? Or limit the music to the last hour of the day?

    Reply ↓
  33. Richard Hershberger*

    What jumps out at me is the “local radio stations.” I don’t mind background music, even when it is not a genre I would listen to on my own. Indeed, that often is less intrusive, as it does not impinge on my consciousness the way something that interests me would. But assuming these local radio stations are commercial stations, the interminable ad block would drive me crazy. (In fairness, so would the biannual pledge week of a public station.) Also, add me to the list of people perplexed what “a ‘buzzy’ atmosphere’ means and how intermittent background music contributes to it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      The same set of ads, the same songs repeated several times a day (if it’s contemporary music), the chatter from the DJs, etc. There’s a reason I don’t listen to the radio in 2025 unless I’m trapped in a car, and even then I’ll try to avoid it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I am fortunate to be within range of not one but two classical public stations, plus a public station that plays pop music, though not typically the top forty stuff. Between these, I avoid the ad blocks and most of the DJ blather, and what DJ blather slips through tends to be higher grade.

        Reply ↓
        1. OP*

          Hello, I’m OP! Sorry to clarify it’s playlists, not local radio (e.g. no talking, no ads). But a good point on repetitiveness nonetheless!

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  34. Stella*

    I don’t think there’s any reasonable justification for continuing to play music. The LW seems to be just as upset that Julie is leaving the group as she is about her being huffy about it. I think the latter is inappropriate and should be addressed if she’s noisily clearing off her desk and grumbling, but if she can’t work with the music playing it shouldn’t be a problem for her to go elsewhere. Everyone already knows where she’s going and why, so why does she need to announce it every time?

    Reply ↓
  36. Susan C*

    I also wonder what the ‘huffy’ behavior is…My husband would be totally this way if ‘buzzy’ music were played, and his response might include some ‘huffy’ behavior: but he is on the spectrum, and honestly, the behavior is a reaction to having his concentration *ruined* and I am not sure he can fully control it: in a similar way to the way that many of us find that our body jerks involuntarily when someone comes up behinds us and startles us. Regardless, I say shame on any office that would prioritize ‘buzz’ over the ability of all employees to concentrate (What are you: a disco? Since when should offices be ‘buzzy’?). You are sending the message that Julie is not a valued employee. Is your goal to get rid of her? If not, why would you want her to be uncomfortable when anyone who wants music can wear headphones? I will also say that if the motivation for this meanness (yes, I can’t work with certain types of music playing, and I would consider this meanness if it were my workplace) is that you think she just wants to work from home, shame on you for using such a tactic. Just get rid of distracting music, tell people they can bring headphones if they want music (or even be a really nice employer and give everyone a pair of headphones, tell people that the remote/non-remote policies will be enforced, and take appropriate action if anyone violates those policies. Alison, I personally think you were a little too nice here.

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  37. Tristan*

    I have sensory issues with noise and working in spaces with loud music playing is awful, I sympathize with Julie. Just because it doesn’t sound loud to OP doesn’t mean it won’t be loud for anyone with sensory sensitivity (not saying Julie does, just sharing my experience). I coped by wearing headphones all day which defeats the point of being in-office for collaboration.

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  38. Caramel & Cheddar*

    I don’t really get why anyone is mad that Julie doesn’t announce that she’s moving to the co-working location when the music comes on. It doesn’t sound like they’re interacting with her, and I wouldn’t need the play-by-play from her if I was one of the colleagues. If the music’s on, I can assume Julie is going to move over there since that’s what she does now.

    Reply ↓
    1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

      Yep. It’s not an airport. Nobody needs to announce their departure.

      I mean, it’s a space for 25 people, not a medieval castle. If somebody needs Julie, they’ll know where to find her.

      Reply ↓
    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      And if she did announce she was moving to the coworking location, that would probably be considered “huffy.” No wonder she just quietly slips out.

      Reply ↓
  39. Tall Hobbit*

    I’m not sure if this is what’s going on here, but I think it’s worth mentioning that this may be something that’s covered by ADA. I have a processing disorder and ADHD and working in this environment would be really hard for me—especially if I raised the issue and was brushed off! Again, not sure if that’s what’s happening here and Julie’s reaction may need to be addressed regardless, but I think that underscores the importance of not being dismissive with this concern upfront.

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  40. CzechMate*

    Yeah, I think it’s not entirely fair to Julie to have music going if it prevents her from concentrating. From her perspective, it’s a no-win perspective–she either has to grin and bear it to get along with the rest of the office at the expense of doing her work, or she can get her work done but be noticeably separate from the rest of the team (with all the professional repercussions that come with that).

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  41. Skytext*

    OP mentions that they play local radio stations. Well, I still listen to local radio, but the commercials can get REALLY annoying! Mostly car dealerships and men’s clinics selling “male enhancement” drugs. And the same ones over and over and over again. So listening to it all day can be maddening, even if you like the music being played. Maybe that is part of what’s going on with Julie.

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    1. Richard Hershberger*

      I don’t listen to commercial music radio, but there is one sports talk station I occasionally listen to. Most sports talk is empty blather to fill air time, but I find it pretty easy to know when they will actually have something to talk about, and which hosts will have something interesting to say about it. But this still leaves the ads, including the one from a family law firm that markets to men contemplating divorces. They inch right up to the line of promising to keep that b***h from getting anything.

      Reply ↓
    2. iglwif*

      Commercial radio is the absolute worst. Like, even if it’s a station where I like the music (which doesn’t happen very often), you get maybe 2 pieces of music and then it’s back to the adverts. And then the same piece of music again, three or four times a day!

      Reply ↓
  42. HugeTractsofLand*

    I would find this as obnoxious as Julie does, and headphones wouldn’t help because headphones are meant to fight music with music and the whole point is that I can’t focus when there’s noise! Could you do music for only a set part of the day, like 10-12, so Julie can work at her own desk the rest of the time and plan accordingly? Other coworkers might benefit because they could save their more focus-intensive work for the quiet part of the day. Coworkers who like music can pop in their headphones if the quiet bothers them. It’s great that there’s a separate space Julie *can* use, but I’d be mad if I came in from home and was forced to work in a random space.

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  43. Not The Earliest Bird*

    I can’t work in silence. I need a background noise, be it music, white noise, or even a TV playing anything.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      My daughter is the same. She’s always had something playing in the background when she was studying. But she doesn’t impose it on others.

      Reply ↓
      1. KateM*

        Yeah, my husband needs music to work and I need silence, and we share out home office. He uses headphones when I have to be able to concentrate.

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  44. Jane*

    I am a Julie, and I would definitely be huffy every time I had to get up and move away from my team due to unnecessary office music because it totally proves that coming into the office isn’t really needed, since apparently the solution is for her to go sit alone in another room (which she could do at home). I HATE background music, TVs, podcasts, etc. They are incredibly distracting during work, but they are also a sensory nightmare for me in my day-to-day life. Unless I’m in the headspace to specifically listen to something, any kind of unwanted noise becomes overwhelming and uncomfortable. Julie might not be listening to music on her headphones. I know when I’m in situations like this, I have to put on noise-cancelling headphones and play white noise. I hope the LW takes Julie’s discomfort to heart.

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  45. SJPxo*

    I do have to sympathise as while I do enjoy listening to music at work I cannot really do that if it has lyrics; I like to listen to video game mix tape playlists on Spotify as they’re designed to be non intrusive to not take the persons attention from the game, so it’s good to listen to when I need something, but can concentrate still

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    1. Amy*

      I love playing movie soundtracks and video game soundtracks while working. Kinda like modern classical music. But it’s on very low. The only other person in my office is my boss, and as mentioned in a comment below, he is very hard of hearing.

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      1. SJPxo*

        It’s a good compromise but OP from the letter doesn’t seem to want to make any sort of accommodation of Julie, (personally Radio and Pop playlists are my idea of hell) or change anything to help her.. all for a ‘buzzy’ atmosphere whatever buzzword nonsense that is..
        Glad it’s not just me who likes those soundtracks, they’re pretty good to listen to as well!

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    2. penny dreadful analyzer*

      I’m in a similar boat — my work is “trying to edit words” and I cannot have competing words going into my brain, so my work playlists are all “Classic Music for Working,” “Classical Music for Focus & Study,” “Classical Music for Reading,” and the occasional “Classical Music for [Season]” if I want to mix it up. I’m not even particularly into classical, it’s just that listening to pop or rock music that was designed for people to sing along to at dance clubs would result in next to no work getting done.

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  46. UKAAM*

    “I also told her she’s welcome to leverage the co-working space when it feels too much,”
    My understanding of the letter is that this is what she’s doing (she goes to the co-working space when the music is on), which is what you told her to do! You don’t mention her rolling her eyes/complaining under her breath etc, just not saying anything to anyone, which doesn’t seem huffy to me it seems direct and efficient (maybe the music is disruptive because she’s in the flow!). If you don’t want Julie to work in the coworking space, than say that, don’t say she can and then secretly get mad at her for doing what you said.

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    1. FishyInDenmark*

      – Julie requests no music, in writing, like an adult
      – Boss says, “No, but you can move to this other area if it bothers you”
      – Julie moves to the area Boss told her to move to when the music starts up

      So, Boss, now you’re upset that Julie is doing specifically what you told her to do to solve the problem?

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  47. SpiderPlant*

    Oh God LW, you are so in the wrong. You are putting her in a situation where you make it harder for her to get her work done – and not for any useful purpose either, just because you want your workplace to project a certain vibe? Talk about focussing on the wrong thing – your main goal should be helping everyone have the best possible working conditions, not projecting some kind of image (who even cares?). Those are some seriously misplaced priorities.

    Also, you can’t have it both ways. You‘ve told her to sit elsewhere if the music disturbs her, but then when she does, you‘re also not happy with her. So what exactly do you suggest she do? Turn in low-quality work because she can‘t concentrate?

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  48. Sparkles McFadden*

    You need to talk to *everyone* LW, and not see this as a “Julie only” issue. Set up some guidelines and have a quiet area where ANYONE who wants quiet can go. Yes, you can tell Julie to cut out the storming off behavior, but if she knows she can go to a quiet area or ask to turn the music off, she won’t be frustrated and annoyed. Your message to her thus far is “Yeah, you don’t like music but everyone else is fine with it so it’s your problem to deal with.” I’m willing to bet there are people who might prefer quiet (including new people you’ll hire) but they are not going to say anything because they know their boss likes the music.

    I worked for decades in departments where we played music, and the #1 rule was that anyone who wanted quiet could say “I need to turn the music off” and that was that. Even if twelve people in the room wanted ambient music, the person requesting silence just turned the music off and anyone else used headphones.

    We also rotated through genres, with a time limit on stuff only one person liked. So if someone wanted to play some heavy metal stuff or opera or something else that no one else liked much, the person could play whatever for half an hour and then we’d switch. It was kind of fun because you’d be exposed to stuff you didn’t normal listen to. We all had veto power, and we’d have a half hour of quiet (or more) after the veto (see rule #1). Knowing you have control over your work environment is a big deal. Having your boss make it clear you don’t have *any* control whatsoever is an even bigger deal. Julie shouldn’t be storming out, but I get it.

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    1. Delta Delta*

      Re rotation – I worked for a florist when I was in college. We had a big stereo and about 60 cassettes (this was a while ago, admittedly) that we could choose from. Whoever was working in the front could pick a tape, and when it was over, someone else on shift could take a turn and pick something. Vickie liked Elton John. Carol liked classical. Layla liked jazz. It all sort of worked and if you didn’t like what was on you got to change it when it was your turn.

      The exception to the rule was Valentine’s Day when we listened repeatedly to The Big Chill soundtrack. I cannot hear, “My Girl” without having sort of a Pavlovian response and remembering the smell of flowers.

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  49. Beth*

    Also, from an accommodation perspective if I have to turn my hearing aids down/ off to avoid the music blaring directly into my ears then I can’t hear the person who comes to my desk to collaborate. It’s already hard for me to hear with background noise.

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  50. Amy*

    It’s a control issue and flex on both sides. Keeping playing music even though it does bother one person, and that person packing up in a huff to move desks.

    That being said, the owner of the company I work for listens to political and news videos on Youtube most of the day- at full volume because he’s hard of hearing. His cell phone calls…I can literally understand the other side of the conversation even though I’m sitting 25 ft away. There are walls in between but no doors. I tried to tune it out, to ignore it, but it’s like my brain just tunes in anyways. I ended up buying Loop earplugs to wear at times. I can still hear my desk phone ring, but they block out most of his phone noise.

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  51. Jane*

    move towards the office using earbuds. that way everyone gets what they want. it is unreasonable of you to expect Julia to suck it up. my guess is she is not the only one that dislikes the music. but because people do noy want to be singled out she is the only one spoke up.

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  52. Contracts Killer*

    I feel for Julie and also the unknown number of other people who also hate the music being on but for whatever reason haven’t complained about it.

    I am extremely sensitive to noise, and if this was my work environment, I’d be looking for another job. I remember once (don’t worry – I don’t condone it and I’m not proud of it) I was in a meeting room with a coworker and having a conference call that required extreme concentration. My coworker kept absentmindedly clicking his pen. Twice I gently put my hand over his to signal him to stop. The third time I yanked the pen out of his hand and flung it across the room. Thankfully he was more amused than upset.

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  53. Ms. Anne Thropy*

    Team Julie 100%. I could not stand being forced to listen to music all day. And I question how “huffy” she actually is.

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  54. Delta Delta*

    I also sympathize with Julie. I don’t mind music, but if I’m working I need music without lyrics or lyrics in a language I don’t speak so that my brain doesn’t focus on the words. If the feedback is that the office is too quiet AND that at least one person has struggled with the current music situation, maybe ask her for a suggestion.

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  55. Elle*

    Full sympathy to Julie. At my last job, I worked in an open plan office where there was overhead music playing (usually in genres I don’t like), and most of the people around me were constantly on the phone (their jobs required it, mine required only occasional phone time). I listened to my own stuff through headphones because it was the only way I could focus. Then some of my coworkers complained to our manager because they thought it wasn’t fair I could have headphones and they couldn’t (because they were always on the phone), and so I lost headphone privileges.

    We had a system in our office where each day a different person got to pick the overhead music (aka a Sirius channel). Most of my coworkers picked country, which I can’t stand. I tried picking classical to create a more neutral environment and got so much coworker pushback that I was told I couldn’t do that anymore. So another coworker who also lost headphone privileges and I decided that when it was our turn to pick, we just wouldn’t pick anything and would have no music on those days. We were told we couldn’t do that either. We were also not allowed to turn down the volume even though the speaker was right above our desks and was too loud. It was hell. I eventually switched to a work from home job where I can control what I listen to and when, and am now much happier.

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  56. PinkCandyFloss*

    I agree with Julie tbh. If someone wants music while they work, put on headphones. Trying to work with music on in the office would be far too distracting for me. So I too would be driven from my workspace. It sounds horrible.

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  57. Lissa Landon*

    I would either need noise cancelling headphones or to just not get much done on the days that music is playing (and thus, probably start looking for another job). Given that people can use headphones to listen to music, this seems like a terrible idea and I hope they decide to stop.

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  58. SpiderPlant*

    Oh God LW, you are so in the wrong. You are putting her in a situation where you make it harder for her to get her work done – and not for any useful purpose either, just because you want your workplace to project a certain vibe? Talk about focussing on the wrong thing – your main goal should be helping everyone have the best possible working conditions, not projecting some kind of image (who even cares?). Those are some seriously misplaced priorities.

    Also, you can’t have it both ways. You‘ve told her to sit elsewhere if the music disturbs her, but then when she does, you‘re also not happy with her. So what exactly do you suggest she do? Turn in low-quality work because she can‘t concentrate?

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  59. i have spoken*

    OP turn the music off. anyone who wants to listen to music can get headphones. musical tastes vary (and the desire to have music vs being unable to tolerate it too). the tyranny of the majority needs to be fought here. it’s not a fair comparison – people who are easily distracted and negatively impacted by music vs people who just find it pleasant or entertaining.

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  60. hmm*

    I have misophonia. I also do not know that I could keep my reaction purely professional under these circumstances. Please find a way to make the music stop.

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  61. Bosslady*

    LW is the one who told her the only solution is for the employee to move to a secluded area away from the team, yet is sensitive to her MOVING TO A SECLUDED AREA AWAY FROM THE TEAM. You have her only one choice which also discourages team interaction, which is also the given reason for being in the office to begin with. You’ve put her in a very frustrating position and you’re likely going to lose this employee. Not over music but over your refusal to make a very easy concession she told your formally in writing is bothering her.
    It really doesn’t even matter that it was requested by some of the team, you don’t manage by voting you use your managerial discretion which is lacking here.

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  62. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

    I am one of those people who hears the song lyrics. All of them. Every song. Every single ad or bit of DJ patter on that radio station? I hear it. I can recite it back to you. I would def be in the conf room every single time the music/radio came on unless it was classical music or purely instrumental for hours.

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  63. Paris Geller*

    Oh man, I’m with Julie on this one. I actually love listening to music while I work, but only if it’s music I picked! Team headphones all the way over here. It’s not cool that she’s huffy (depending on how huffy she’s actually getting), but I totally understand her impulse. I would find it so grating to listen to radio music all the time. Even sometimes while shopping I have to pull my own headphones out because the loop of the same top 40 songs grates on my nerves. I can’t imagine listening to that while trying to work.

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  64. Yikes*

    OP, this is 100% something that I would leave a job over. Even if Julie is the only one openly against it, I wouldn’t be surprised if others hate it AND if it deters talent in the future.

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  65. antisocialite*

    Glad Alison asked about the level of huffiness. It’s unclear if the OP is equating the employee telling her it’s a problem and then packing up when it’s on or not.

    Also, as someone with an audio processing disorder and other hearing impairments, this is giving ableist vibes. It’s possible she has one, or misophonia. The APD makes your brain work so much harder to understand things and noises we can’t control like music really mess with that. It can lead to frustration and upset, so that may be part of the perceived huffiness.

    I’m not onboard with the “reasons” the OP and HR person are so insistent the music is necessary. I think they need to support the employee more and allow her to move into another space to protect her peace, especially if it’s causing concentration or communication issues. And yeah, if she truly is huffy and storming off, then that needs to improve too.

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  66. Glengarry Glenn Close*

    I don’t think I’ve seen the word “huffy” as many times as this since I was talking about my bike in fourth grade

    Anyway it seems like the solution is already in place – just let her go work in the quieter space as she’s doing. Yes you can ask her to tone down the huffiness

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  67. Generic Name*

    Honestly, I’m kindof side eyeing management’s stated desire to have a more “buzzy” atmosphere in the office. If your work requires any level of concentration for any amount of time, it’s not a good idea for the office to be always buzzy. I’d also bet that the people wanting a buzzy vibe sit in offices and want to look out and see people diligently working and talking and drawing stuff on whiteboards.

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      1. Generic Name*

        Yes! I would say that my (open) office is occasionally buzzy. It’s also often quiet when people are doing focused work. It’s buzzy when there are people gathered around the puzzle table or are adding something to the monthly question posted on our whiteboard, or when folks are discussing projects at someone’s cube. All of those things happen organically because our department is relatively young and because we have fostered a team environment.

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  68. OP*

    I am OP! I really appreciate everyone’s comments, and I’ve read through every one. Lots to take on board, and a couple of points to clear up:
    – I don’t have control of the radio/ music but I’m going to be reaching out to mgmt to request some structure to when it’s playing, as completely see that actually, having it on randomly might be annoying. Sparkles McFadden, I found your suggestion of the rule that if someone wants it off it goes off, and the suggestion to rotate music really helpful, so thank you for that!
    – I’m going to sit down with J and reiterate she’s welcome to use the quiet areas when she needs to, and just address the manner in which she moves off, which is done in an increasingly aggressive manner (although it might not come across in my letter, I do understand the frustration, as someone with food-based misophonia!), and that is the crux of what I wanted advice on how to tackle as it leaves an uncomfortable atmosphere with the team. I can completely see now how I’m contradicting myself with the ‘be in the office to collaborate/ but suck it up on the music front’, so appreciate the (brutal!) honesty in the comments around that.

    Mainly just thanks! This is an interesting corner of the internet to put forward queries for group-think, and I appreciate the different perspectives in the comments.

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    1. BuildMeUp*

      Hi OP! Thanks for engaging in the comments.

      I want to second the suggestion for having a designated time when the music can be on, and having no music outside of that time. It sounds like people just randomly turn the radio on when they feel like it. Instead, maybe the radio can be on for an hour around lunch time or something similar. If Julie knows when it’s going to be on, she can preemptively go into the co-working space, go grab coffee, etc. Or maybe even knowing it will be on during that time and off otherwise would make her less annoyed by it.

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    2. Tau*

      Thanks for taking this so graciously, since comments have been fairly harsh!

      Something that might help the conversation with Julie go more smoothly is asking for her input on what you could possibly do to make this easier on her, given that your hands are tied on some things (such as having music in the office at all). She might have some ideas you hadn’t thought of, you can check whether having more structure to it would make it more tolerable – and by signalling that you’re taking her frustration seriously and are sympathetic to where she’s coming from, you’ll hopefully meet less resistance if you follow the brainstorming with “I support you moving to the quiet space when you need to, but I need you to do so quietly without distracting others” or similar.

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    3. Zona the Great*

      Wait, you yourself have misophonia yet you’re saying she’s huffy for gathering her things and going to the co-working space for being bothered by noise?

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      1. BuildMeUp*

        I think you may need to reread their comment, and possibly the original post. The issue is not Julie picking up her things and moving; the issue is the “increasingly aggressive” way she’s doing it. If it’s making her coworkers uncomfortable, she needs to handle her frustration in a more professional way.

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      2. Ellis Bell*

        I think OP is referring to the visible/audible things she does as protest WHILE moving, not that moving is wrong.

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    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      Thanks for the additional info!

      I don’t think banning music altogether is the best solution, especially since the majority of employees supported it to create a more engaging office atmosphere. Adding some structure around when music plays seems like a reasonable compromise.

      It’s also good that you (OP) have recognized the contradiction—requiring people to be in the office for collaboration while also telling Julie to remove herself when she’s uncomfortable with the environment. That does send mixed messages.

      I’d re-open the conversation with her. You don’t want her to feel pushed out but you also want to maintain team cohesion. Maybe something like, “I know the music isn’t ideal for you, and I don’t want you to feel like your only option is to separate yourself from the team. We’ve tried to strike a balance based on what works for most people, but I also want to make sure you have workable options. If the volume is too high, let’s talk about adjusting it. If certain times are more distracting, we can explore scheduling it differently. And if you do need to step away to focus, that’s totally fine—I just want to make sure it’s done in a way that doesn’t feel like a protest. Let’s find a way to make this work without creating unnecessary tension.”

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      1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        I just… I guess I just think there’s a difference between “a lot of people like this” and “some people, for numerous reasons–some of them medical–physically can not get work done if you do this.” And as a neurodivergent person I guess I am just personally really sick and tired of having to be the one to always compromise my productivity and comfort when it isn’t necessary, or be the one to manage my manager’s feelings and navigate every possible solution for them because I’m in the minority and I’ve come forward to try an preserve my productivity and sanity. Over something that isn’t a need for everyone else, but IS a need for me. It’s just incredibly frustrating.

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    5. PayRaven*

      Thank you for being so gracious! As others have said, this one struck a nerve.

      The one thing I’d really want to know: how long was Julie moving or interacting with this system in a non-“huffy” way and getting nowhere? You said she submitted a complaint in writing, and that she’s already frustrated by RTO. If she’s tried to do everything “right” and still been shut down, not helped, and told to suck it up…then, yeah, this is gonna be the result! It’s not cool (if it’s genuinely disruptive and there’s a way she could move that would be acceptable–and be really, really sure that there is, because if it turns out that people just don’t like it when she leaves, they’re going to have to, um, suck it up), but neither is putting her in this situation for so long!

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    6. Yes*

      Hi OP, thanks for engaging! One thing that came to my mind: how does Julie know that the music is out and she can come back? Will she be sitting in the co-working space for the rest of day, is there a limit when music is off latest?

      I would be terribly frustrated if I had to be away from my coworkers, as some kind of eremite, for almost all of the day and be required in the office for collaboration nonetheless.

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      1. OP*

        Hi sorry I’m not sure how to use the reply function so hope this ties to the right comment!

        Ann O’Nemity thank you so much for your suggested wording, I really appreciate that and it feels spot on to what I want to convey! Will definitely be using that.

        So the music usually goes on after lunch around 2pm ish if it does go on, I think it’s become a bit of a solution to the post-lunch lull. It tends to be one or two colleagues who turn it on, and then once it’s on, unless it’s requested to be turned off (which I have done on J’s behalf a couple of times when it has definitely been too loud), it then lasts till end of day. In terms of how she can know if the music is off, previously I’ve either walked over or just messaged her to say it’s off if she wants to come back over – both times she was in the flow with something so came back a while later, which I get. My issue has never been her using the space (which I articulated badly, thanks Ellis Bell for getting it!), but more the manner in which she does it, so I really appreciate some of the advice on how to handle that conversation without shutting down the validity of why she’s using the quiet space. E.g. when she’s over there, some team members have queried with me that they feel they need to ‘leave her be’ so things get delayed instead of moving forwards with simple questions.

        PayRaven, it’s been as issue as long as the radio has been in the office (for about six months). We’ve actually had the Alexa device much longer, but it never got used before there was this specific request through the employee council (Sort of in petition format) to have music in the office.

        Once again just thank you for all the insightful takes and thoughtful advice! Every day’s a school day and nobody is a perfect manager :)

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        1. PayRaven*

          Woof, six months is a LONG time to be trying to politely and professionally get a problem addressed and be told “no” and “your needs aren’t as important as other people’s wants” every time. I might be behaving worse than Julie at this point.

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    7. Ellis Bell*

      You’ve described the workplace set up, but it depending on the fine details how your workspace is set out; I’d probably look at one or more of the following;
      1) Having a music area, and a non music area. The music area could be dedicated for those who need it to concentrate on solo tasks, while the non music area could be where you go for verbal collaboration and/or the home of those who can’t work with background music. It could involve repurposing a meeting room, or moving a few permanent desks to the ad hoc area. Or the music could be in a social coffee, water cooler or break area where people can go to get a snack sized bit of stimulus.
      2) Perhaps nominate a “music day” to happen on the optional, additional days when Julie and those like her can just opt to stay home.
      3) More purposeful collaboration than just waiting for it to happen organically by people sitting together. Ask people to think about making more specific collaboration meetings, possibly based on issues or on training needs you direct.
      One last thought is that people are often like plants; just because one type likes sun doesn’t mean all plants will survive being baked. When you manage a space, sometimes when someone is visibly wilting, you have to shake up their placement for them to truly thrive and everyone has a different set of needs.

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    8. Lily Potter*

      OP, could you clarify as to whether the music is ON 10% of the time or OFF 10% of the time?

      If it’s ON 10% of the time, Julie needs to suck it up and deal with it (earbuds, work in co-working space, etc). I don’t care how much a person “needs” silence to work – anyone can figure it out for 2.4 hours a week. Julie is being overdramatic if she has to listen to music for 2.4 hours a week, and is likely doing that because she’s salty about having to work in the office.

      If it’s OFF 10% of the time and ON 90% of the time, you need to be re-evaluating the whole “music in the office” thing, ’cause that’s a LOT for most people to handle, even those that like some background noise.

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      2. PayRaven*

        Hi Lily Potter, respectfully, I don’t agree that Julie needs to suck it up. She’s been trying to do that for six months and it hasn’t worked; I think OP should believe her when she indicates that it’s a serious problem.

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      3. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        Holy crap. Okay, so… NOT everyone can figure it out and deal with it. There are real people with real disabilities that can be effected by a noisy environment who can not just shut it out. You’re conflating “*needs*” with “*has a preference*” Also, OP stated above that the music is normally from 2pm until the end of the day–yeah, that is going to potentially really effect the work performance of some people, going to mildly annoy some people, and some people are not going to care. But the people who aren’t super enjoying the music aren’t less deserving of a comfortable work environment than the radio lovers who could easily “suck it up and deal with” wearing headphones. Why be so dismissive of people just because they don’t share your exact experience or noise toleration levels? Like… do you also think that people with scent senistivity should just “suck it up and deal” with Barbara liberally hosing down the office with body spray du jour from Victoria’s Secret because *she* likes the way it smells and it doesn’t bother *her* and also Shirley over by the printer really likes it?

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  69. Team Julie*

    I would be Julie, 100%. I need silence in order to focus on my work, which is partly due to the nature of my work and partly due to me liking silence. And musical taste is so subjective. I guarantee no one I work with would want to listen to what I’d want to put on, and vice versa.

    All this to say I don’t blame Julie one bit. The huffiness isn’t cool, but LW, YOU DIDN’T HELP HER. Help her now, without a talking to. (Sorry, Alison, I hate to disagree with you, but Julie had a very reasonable complaint and it wasn’t addressed. She shouldn’t be blamed for reacting badly when no one cared enough about her problem to help.)

    That said, I think the commenters who suggested set times for music had a good idea. And why not take it a step further and schedule different playlists? Beyonce releases a new album, have Beyonce day, and whoever doesn’t like Beyonce can work from home that day, for example. People can vote on what music gets played that month and it becomes a unifying activity. You get your buzzy office and more importantly, people get their work done.

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  70. iglwif*

    Honestly, I’m Team Julie.

    Obviously if she’s genuinely being passive-aggressive and loud about it, that’s not office-appropriate … but in her place, given how her extremely reasonable concerns have been handled so far, I’d be tempted too.

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  71. Neither Here Nor There*

    > The manner in which she does it could be read as passive-aggressive, and her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null.

    Out of curiosity, how much in-person collaboration is the rest of the team doing? If your office feels “dead,” then I can’t imagine that everyone else is up and about, talking and socializing and spontaneously collaborating on stuff.

    I know you have no choice about going back to the office, but it’s worth thinking about–because if she’s more productive over there *and* isn’t missing out on any in-person collaboration, then you can let that frustration go. She’s in the office. She’s working. She’s not missing out on in-person collaboration if there’s none happening.

    Is it silly that you’re all coming into the office just to sit in dead silence unless someone puts a radio on? Yes! Extremely! Is this proving that you’re all slogging into the office for minimal-to-no gain? Possibly!

    If your office really *does* want a “buzzy” atmosphere, you have to be building that somehow–some culture where there are lots of communal areas, lots of excuses to spontaneously talk to each other, lots of opportunities to get up from your desk and chat through things. If someone has a vision for what a PR office should look like, they need to cultivate that, not just fill the silence so it’s less obvious that no one’s talking to each other.

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  72. Michigander*

    I personally don’t think playing music once every two weeks or so in the office is all that bad (provided it’s at a low volume and not blasting), but I also think that this has a lot to do with her desire to work from home. I’m forced back into the office three times a week AND I have to be distracted by music I didn’t get to choose? Annoyance on top of annoyance.

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  73. Susie and Elaine Problem*

    I just picture the challenges of trying to enter data on a spreadsheet while listening to “867-5309”

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  74. Port*

    Justice for Julie!

    Seriously, though, I wonder what kind of music plays in this office in November-December? Even my classical station, usually pretty diverse, is heavy on church music during that time. Most Christmas playlists are just the same five or six songs and all their covers on repeat, torture in a cafe, recipe for grouchiness in an actual office.

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  75. Onyx*

    LW, I think the first thing you need to do is define, at least for yourself, 1) exactly what *behaviors* you are describing as “huffy” and “could be read as passive-aggressive” and 2) what she *could* do to get away from the music without you considering it huffy/passive aggressive.

    As described, this sounds like a no-win situation to me. She can’t work effectively with the music, but you’ve told her the music takes priority. You’ve told her it’s OK to move to another area to get away from the music, but you’re unhappy that this partially negates the supposed collaboration of in-office work (so Julie’s spending commuting time to then have to disrupt her work to go sit alone, *and* her manager is upset about it). You’re upset that people are noticing she’s annoyed by the music and leaving the area when it starts (in a manner you find “huffy” but without any overt actions described, we can only speculate), but you also are upset she’s not *telling* people when she moves.

    What do you imagine her saying when she moves that you’d be happy with? *Is* there a way she can move without it annoying you? Aside from the inherent (small) disruption of someone speaking to the whole team just to say she’s moving, I’m struggling to imagine what she should say here. “I can’t work with the music playing, so I’m going to the co-working space”? *Would* it be less “passive aggressive” to announce every time that the music they voted for is what is chasing her away than to just pack up and move to the other work area? If I were Julie, I would probably have assumed that such commentary would be unwelcome and considered to be passive aggressive, unless it was just a one-time explanation to cover all future moves. (If she’s slamming stuff around or stomping or making exaggerated sighs, but not speaking, then yeah, that’s disruptive and annoying, but without examples it’s hard to figure out what specifically you need her do stop/start doing to fix this.)

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    1. nnn*

      LW, I think the first thing you need to do is define, at least for yourself, 1) exactly what *behaviors* you are describing as “huffy” and “could be read as passive-aggressive” and 2) what she *could* do to get away from the music without you considering it huffy/passive aggressive.

      Yes, this is an excellent point!

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    2. Sneaky Squirrel*

      This was a point I considered as well! People perceive behavior to be passive aggressive when the behavior makes them feel uncomfortable or guilty sometimes. Is Julie set up for a no-win situation because she’s doing what she was asked to do in these situations? If she’s slamming her books around, and making a fuss about it, name those behaviors directly! But if she’s getting up without saying a word, I don’t what else OP can expect from Julie. You can’t expect her to relocate with a smile.

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    3. HannahS*

      THIS, 100%. I get the sense that deep in the recesses of her heart, the OP just wants Julie to be unbothered by the music and just work like everyone else does. But then what you want is a homogenous workplace, and ultimately there are deficits to that. When you weigh “company culture” as code for “people who fit in here” you start to prioritize style over substance, which in any field is a problem, but especially in creative fields. If Julie’s contributions to the company are worthwhile, then you have to shift your mindset from “How can I make Julie change?” to “How can this company best retain Julie?”

      As an addendum, I can’t work with music playing, unless I’m doing something totally mindless, like data entry, and even then it has to be without lyrics. In order for me to deeply focus, I pretty much work in complete silence, unless I’m very tired and scattered, in which case I use abstract coffee-shop noise from an app. Noise-canceling headphones don’t work, because I can still hear the dang music.

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  76. biblio*

    I wonder what would happen if you moved the speaker to the kitchen/meeting area so that the communal music is where the communal tasks are happening and the permanent desks were more of a quiet/headphone zone.

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  77. Falling Diphthong*

    We want to be creating a “buzzy” atmosphere and the music is part of that.
    Sincere question for OP: Has this worked?

    I was struck that you say you’re a creative agency, and that people complained the atmosphere in the office felt dead. That seems like a weird complaint for such an agency, and not one that would be fixed by flipping on a radio.

    A lot of people would be wildly irritated if someone in their personal life seems to always be saying “Hang on, I’ve got to cue up the right background song for this discussion of the TPS cover sheets.”

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    2. Jennifer Strange*

      That’s a really good point. What are they doing that there’s so much silence in an open space office? If they’re that silent, are they really collaborating? If not, why the RTO?

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  78. Jamie Starr*

    As someone who works with music on 99% of the time (I have a tiny portable speaker at my desk), playing music is obnoxious to do in an open floor plan. I have my own office, but if I had to share my space with others, I would either listen to the music on my headphones, or not listen to music.

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  79. nnn*

    This is another enormous frustration with working in the office in general: not only does the presence/noise/distraction of other people create an environment that’s less conducive to the work so you have to put additional labour into regaining focus, but you also have to put even more labour into concealing the fact that you’re frustrated by the distractions. And if it’s the kind of super open plan office that doesn’t even have dividers that hide your face from each other, you have to put in the labour of modulating your facial expression and body language at all times!

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  80. spiffikins*

    I guess I am in the minority, but I would MUCH rather have some background music on, than have to listen to ANYONE nearby me having a conversation. So I always have music on, to distract me from those conversations that are happening around me.

    Or, in my case, from the VP down the hall who listened to LOUD right wing talk radio ALL day.

    Offices suck in general – they are not productive places to work – there are ALWAYS distractions – unless you can close your door and be in your own space.

    Maybe Julie should take control of the speaker one morning, and play music SHE likes?

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    1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

      Well, yes, but are you going to play your music loud enough for 25 people to hear it? I doubt it. You’ll play it at a level that is comfortable for you. I don’t think Julie is getting that choice here.

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    2. Jennifer Strange*

      I would also rather have music on. But when I work in an office I do that by putting on headphones. I don’t expect everyone else to just deal with my needs.

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  81. CommanderBanana*

    Ok, so, Julie told you the music is an issue for her, and you said she can “leverage the co-working space” (also, holy buzzwords, LW) so she’s…doing that…but you still have a problem with it?

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  82. workingdayandnight*

    I’m on team Julie. I work in a creative field. When it’s time to kick ideas around, we get to decide the environment that’s works best for us. We’ll go into an office and shut the door if we want quiet, or wander around the city talking, or go to a nearby park or museum, etc. But if we were forced to sit in a open space with music we didn’t choose, the company would get the bad ideas they deserve.

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  83. LingNerd*

    Some people just have really sensitive hearing, and Julie might be one of them. It’s very possible that she can hear it through her headphones while listening to her own music. I know I sometimes can, even with noise cancelling headphones, especially stuff that’s higher pitch – which a lot of pop music is! I have a coworker who sometimes whistles and it cuts through absolutely everything and makes me want to punch something. (I don’t obviously, and while I think it’s objectively annoying, I know that the level of anger I feel about it is a me problem.)

    Another part of it may be that ambient music is itself an issue. Like for me, music directly in my ears is fine and helpful because it helps to block out random noises from the room around me and creates my own little noise bubble. But music from a speaker adds to the general ambient noise and is distracting.

    Also, you say you’re playing the radio and listening to local stations. Does anyone bother to change the station when ads come on? Because that might be part of the problem too.

    And another thing – if it really isn’t possible to kill the music altogether, can you at least move where the speaker lives so it’s as far away from her as possible? And/or move her desk so it’s closer to the edges of the room? Being farther away from the noise may make it so noise cancelling headphones are more effective. That is assuming she has noise cancelling headphones anyway, and if she doesn’t, it would be nice to have the company acquire a pair or reimburse her for purchasing some herself.

    Finally, in case the “complaint in writing” was actually an accommodation request, I think you can do better. I only mention it because 1) you specified it was in writing on a way that suggests having a written record may have been important and 2) the HR director was at least tangentially involved because they offered their opinion on the volume of the music

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  84. Jennifer Strange*

    LW, I feel like you’re contradicting yourself all over this letter. You state that the music is a specific request to create a buzzy atmosphere, but then state that it’s only on 10% of the time. You say “I also told her she’s welcome to leverage the co-working space when it feels too much” while also saying “her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null”. It feels like you know Julie’s point of view is valid, but you’re trying to justify not responding to her needs.

    Also, you mention potentially having the volume turned down as a compromise. PLEASE NO. Barely audible music is worse than loud music because you can hear just enough that you’re now focusing on trying to hear what’s being said. If one person can’t work with music, cut the music. If others want it THEY can be the ones to use headphones.

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    1. HannahS*

      Yeah, 10% of the time in an 8-hour workday is about 48 minutes. So there’s music on for less than an hour a day, but it’s a big part of maintaining a “buzzy atmosphere?” That doesn’t make sense to me, and I think the OP is being a bit less than honest with themselves about what’s really bothering them.

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      1. HonorBox*

        As I commented below, it would be worth a follow up conversation with the staff to determine their feelings about the music. Because Julie isn’t the only one who isn’t a fan based on the letter. And if the music is only on 10% of the time, are people REALLY that invested in having the music on? Maybe the conversation should be about how the business gets people headphones.

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    2. Ellis Bell*

      I think those inherent contradictions are pretty much what OP is asking for help with? As in, they need Julie to move if she’s uncomfortable, but the whole point of her being there is to be around others. How to bridge that gap? Also, people made a specific request that they’re indulging in rarely; does this mean they don’t need it at all, or does it mean they only need it at particular times? I don’t think these questions have obvious answers, so I think that’s why OP needs help.

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  85. Maudite Entendante*

    Management: Come work in the office, so you can be productive and collaborate with other people!

    Jane: Okay, but the conditions in the office actually make me less productive.

    Management: I guess you can go isolate yourself in another room away from everyone.

    Jane: …seems counterproductive, but okay, I’ll do exactly the thing you’re telling me to do.

    Management: This situation is vaguely unsettling, so somehow Jane is still in the wrong for following instructions without sufficient gratitude or cheer.

    (Seriously, as a person who strongly prefers to listen to music while I work, even I feel bad for Jane here!)

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  86. Colorado*

    I absolutely cannot work to music or sound of any kind other than the background noise of quiet conversation or the HVAC system (which is humming right now and makes me feel calm). But she needs to talk to you about the issue rather than storming off.
    My husband on the other hand, needs every TV, radio, or some sort of noise on constantly. It’s amazing we’ve been married so long ;-)
    OP – I’d turn off the music.

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  87. NotBatman*

    Hot-desking + mandatory in-office days + open-plan office with sporadic music???? I am so sorry OP, this sounds like an absolute nightmare environment that neither you nor Julie can solve unless one of you is CEO. Has anyone found any actual evidence that you’re more productive working in-office than from home? Because I’d be surprised if anyone can get anything done under those conditions.

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  89. Analytical Tree Hugger*

    The speaker/radio was introduced following widespread feedback to the Employee Council after returning to the office that the environment was dead, with a specific request for music to played in the background.

    It seems like many commenters are missing this part of the letter in favor of their own preferences which are in line with Julie’s.

    It’s been six month, might be worth a follow-up, one question survey: “Do you like the music played during in-office days?”

    If the vast majority still like it, then the music stays.

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    1. Jennifer Strange*

      No one is missing that. But if someone is unable to work with music then either let them move (without complaining that “her working away from the team then makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null”) or let them work from home unless there is a direct need to have them in the office. If neither of those are possible, you can take away the music. This isn’t a democracy where everyone gets to vote on that.

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    2. mreasy*

      If the vast majority of the office wanted a dog-friendly office, but Julie was allergic to dogs such that she could not work in those conditions, surely the answer would not be, Julie has to put up with getting hives or whatever. This is a workplace, the conditions need to be such that everyone can work. In this case, Julie cannot work due to a condition that is not essential for the team’s work.

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    3. Ellis Bell*

      I honestly think this is the kind of issue where you need a unanimous vote, rather than a majority. Unless, of course, OP is okay with an unproductive couple of employees who can’t think, and who are worried about their performance, then ALL people being able to do their job is more important than MOST people having a preference. I am aware that music is a productivity tool for some, but there’s no reason why they can’t use headphones. It’s honesty amazing that people haven’t thought of this.

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      1. Ellis Bell*

        Not that it matters, but I’m actually more productive with music, so it’s not a “my own preferences” stance, more of a “respect people’s limits” stance.

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    4. Yes*

      I am super easily distracted by music or people calling. My coworkers know this and it is a no-brainer. When I need quiet, I well look for a meeting room, I will use earplugs or my headphone (or both). If my coworker has hour long meetings, he will go looking for a meeting room. And nobody is angry with the other person or passive-aggressive about this.
      My point is: it’s less about the music, but about recognizing needs and communicating like grown ups. I have the feeling that there is some other conflict that its unaddressed. Otherwise the behaviour of Julie doesn’t make any sense.

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    5. Kt*

      People liking music vs people not being able to work with music on. The answer has to be no more music. People who want music should listen through headphones…even if everyone liked working with music, no way they all like the same music.

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  91. Lab Snep*

    I cannot focus with music on.

    Even worse is when there are two types of music overlapping, so even if someone is wearing headphones, they may be like me and goung out of their gourd.

    The worst was when I was in a lab and there were two people playing the same radio station but they were out of synch by a second. I was working in the one spot I could hear them both and my coworkers refused to turn one off.

    I totally get Julie.

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  92. Kimberly*

    Unless Julie is really being disruptive, she is in the right. I suspect she is just taking a deep breath and packing up. I’ve been told I’m being disruptive for doing that or just covering my ears to block out noise. Several times in JH and HS, I got a call or note home for being rude/disruptive/anti-social. In each case the teacher let the class choose music to be played – while we finished work that was due that day. I would cover my ears and try to concentrate and finish the work – because I couldn’t think with that music. Then I would get points off for my work being late.

    I did have one teacher that figured out part of the problem. She noticed that I was working very hard to copy the math notes off the board but part way through they would change to notes from the reading class lecture in the classroom next door. The 2 rooms had a folding wall between them from back when the school was open concept. (I have since been diagnosed with auditory processing disorder) My Dad’s solution was to show up at the Texas public school with a Miller Beer panel truck parked across the street filled top to bottom, front to back with cases of copy paper – so the math teacher could give out copies of the notes. The way she had the 1st semester before the school “ran out of paper”.

    It didn’t help with the “Kimberly is being rude when I treat the kids to music during class problem.” Basically outside music/words override my thoughts and make it impossible for me to critically think or evaluate anything. I think in a dialogue and sometimes pictures. It also means I sometimes need noise – audio books, podcasts, tv shows going to shut down my brain so I can relax or go to sleep. I can also use something like familiar music as white noise to block other conversations/music. Ironically actual white noise, will cause me to bounce off the ceiling because I’m trying to sort it out and find patterns. I can also be so deep in thought/reading/interior debate that a literal car crash just outside of my window didn’t come through my brain until the flashing lights of first responders “woke me up”

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  93. Julie, if you’re reading this*

    If I were Julie, I’d take every opportunity to turn on some music of my own. A day of Cocomelon would put a stop to “whoever wants to turn on music can play whatever.”

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  94. Hearing Impaired*

    As someone with a hearing disability, I totally feel for Julie. I’m partially deaf and use a cochlear implant. I often struggle with background noise and being able to distinguish different noises. I would not be able to work in an environment with even soft music playing all the time. But if it is on only 10% of the time, I would push through. That is less than an hour a day. I think the letter writer may want to see if they could schedule when music is playing and when it is not so that people can plan around it. But Julie should not be allowed to be disruptive either. Getting huffy and making a show of moving away is problematic behavior. Yes, she feels a way. Try to meet her halfway and find an accommodation everyone can live with AND require her to not make a scene when things don’t go her way.

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  95. Dinwar*

    If folks want to play music, is there a way to set up a rotating schedule so everyone gets a chance? Right now poor Julie is the pain-sink. What I mean is, with music inevitably someone’s going to be annoyed, and you’ve decided (intentionally or not) that Julie is the one who gets to suffer. If you spread the music around a bit–have specific people choose the music each day, or maybe have a contest for the playlist that day, something like that–it would help spread that around. Everyone would get a chance to enjoy their preference, including Julie, and everyone would have to put up with something they don’t like.

    The alternative is headphones. Let everyone listen to what they want, so long as it doesn’t interfere with anyone else. Honestly, this is probably the best option.

    What strikes me is that the office feels “dead” without music. This implies a lack of communication. Is it that people are overly relying on electronic communications, can you encourage them to have face-to-face conversations in other ways? Our office tried (pre-pandemic) with a popcorn machine, but that backfired because no one wanted to clean it. Maybe make a break area where people are encouraged to chat, or nudge people to go talk to people instead of IMing? It’s still risky–with an open-office plan there’s always conversations you don’t want to hear, but you’re forced to–but it’s a way to get that “buzz” without music.

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  96. Caller 2*

    Are most of the people in the office doing work that doesn’t require a lot of deep focus? How was the survey or whatever worded when it was decided the majority wanted music? I just find it odd that a large majority of people would say they prefer music in an open office when they have to do deep focus work.

    As for the buzziness of the office, I get that a dead sounding office might be a bit off-putting, but the way to solve that is to foster an environment where people feel they can chat with each other. The best office environments I’ve been in have had a balance of friendliness that led to some casual chatting and heads-down or collaborative work most of the time. The worst have been where some higher-up would give everyone the stink-eye (or worse, tell us off) if we weren’t bent over our desks working 100% of the time. And I doubt the stink-eye offices were any more productive than the ones where we felt we could chat for a few minutes about our weekends every once in a while.

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    1. Jennifer Strange*

      That’s a great point! When I worked in fundraising, the person who was our grant writer often worked from home because his role required that he be able to focus, which wasn’t possible in our open-space office.

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  97. Not Really a Waitress*

    I think a lot of reapondents are too focuses on music. I think LW has addressed Julie can move to another area, wear head phones, etc the issue is her attitude when she does thus.
    at a previous job , we use to get catered lunch once a month and be given a choice of area restaurants. my shift always voted for wings. I hate wings. too much work not enough meat, the spicy smell would linger and make my nose run.
    but guess what I am a grown up. and I would either request something else on menu be ordered or I would bring my own lunch.
    This was an office perk people enjoyed and I was able to adjust without getting huffy. Julie could start over in hot deck area or tell her when she moves yo politely say I am moving to a spot just out of bluetooth earshot.

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    1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

      I hate to say this, but your previous job sucked. For a perk to be perk, it needs to be a perk for everyone, not just a small group of people who like that one particular thing. They should make sure there is a variety for everybody to enjoy.

      Be very careful about picking up standards from skewed workplaces.

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      1. Dinwar*

        If you can find music, food, or cloths that everyone is on board with, you would probably warrant canonization. I’ve never met a group of 3 or more people who could agree on any of these things.

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        1. Bob Parlocha Fan*

          That was my point though. If you’re the person who doesn’t like wings, then you’re always getting the short end of the stick. They should rotate to make sure everybody gets something they like every once in a while, which means that someone else will probably get something they don’t like.

          But the person who doesn’t the one thing the group always goes for shouldn’t be penalized for their personal preference.

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          1. Dinwar*

            Your solution penalizes the team to cater to one person’s preferences. Why is that superior?

            We’re not discussing something that’s inherently offensive. And in some places catering lunches is a traditional perk (we do it occasionally on jobsites, usually pizza); taking that away–and believe me, allowing one person to veto the team’s vote would very quickly lead to the perk being abandoned–would be seen as a violation of industry standards.

            You’re making a moral argument, specifically that objections carry greater moral weight than preferences. In some cases, yes, that’s the case. But I’m not convinced it’s true in every case, and I’ve yet to see a coherent argument in favor of such a position–folks are just taking it as given that any objection overrules any amount of advocacy (usually because the individual poster likes/dislikes X, Y, or Z).

            My view is more nuanced. First, a more wholistic view is needed. Sure, wings aren’t a good food–they were garbage that someone found a way to make money off of, they literally used to throw wings away. But I’m willing to pack a lunch once a week if in exchange I get to choose the coffee. Or maybe I get to do something in my job that I really, really enjoy, to the point where not eating wings is irrelevant. Second, this is why company culture is so important when looking at jobs. There’s nothing wrong, morally, with a team that gets wings every Friday. It’s annoying to those of us that consider wings barely edible, but if that’s the company’s culture we either need to accept it or find somewhere else to work. (Note that this does not extend to offensive or bigoted actions.) Same with music, and with dress codes–every team has their way of doing things and while you can make some changes over time, you largely either need to accept the culture or find a different one if it’s that important to you.

            Put a different way: How much political capital are you willing to burn here? Taking away a group’s wings is going to cause hard feelings. Is it really worth it?

            I blame the internet. We’re so used to everything being tailor-made to our specific tastes these days that we’ve forgotten that for most of human history that simply wasn’t an option. You had to give and take, and accept that sometimes things weren’t going to be your favorite and that that’s okay. To be absolutely clear, I’m not saying that being offensive, bigoted, discriminatory, or otherwise violating the law is okay; just that in matters of taste sometimes the majority in fact rules, and as part of a team you need to accept that.

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            1. Anony*

              I am a picky eater who has suffered from eating disorders on and off for my entire life. I would never expect the entire office to suffer because of my pickiness or my eating disorder, and, having navigated the workplace with my issues, deal with this issue on my own (rather than having the whole office cater to my disordered safe foods for days on end).

              Certainly, I think there should always be an “and” rather than an “or.” Could you order wings and something else for people who don’t like wings? But certainly, without an accommodation request, Julie isn’t queen of the office and the office doesn’t have to cater to her in this situation. It sounds like there are alternatives that she could use (headphones, volume compromise) that would work well for everyone.

              I also think that, because Julie has these visceral, visible reactions to the music – an order to stop listening to music is going to make her look bad. There’s no way to spin it, unless it comes down from the top, that doesn’t look like she is the reason that they can no longer listen to music. And, I think, that’s not going to help the workplace dynamics at all.

              I think, though, is that the real issue here is that Julie doesn’t want to be in the office – she wants to work from home. No amount of concessions are going to make that work out.

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    2. Jennifer Strange*

      I think LW has addressed Julie can move to another area

      Except in their own letter the LW complains that Julie moving to another area “makes the point of coming together in the office slightly null”. So Julie can’t win either way.

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  98. Disabled worker*

    People who want music should use headphones. Maybe I’m too cranky about this, but I fully believe that blasting music into a shared space without enthusiastic consent from EVERYBODY in the room is an asshole move, just as it is on public transport.
    I too work better with my own music, which is why I make sure to use headphones.

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  99. J*

    When I last worked in an office, I had to listen to a “White noise for focus” youtube video in order to get anything done because of the disruptive environment. My coworkers may have thought I was listening to music– all they saw was me wearing headphones. My job involves a lot of writing and if I am listening to anything with lyrics, I inevitably start typing the words that I’m hearing instead of the words that pertain to what I’m writing.

    Team Julie all the way on this.

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  102. Hey there*

    Can the noise happen at established times so Julie can get up and leave beforehand? Maybe if it’s not always out of the blue it wouldn’t be so annoying. I mean it is still kind of annoying because she’s ostensibly there to collaborate and still needs to remove herself, however I know it’d be easier for me if I know it’s coming and can prepare/feel prepared.

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  103. SpicyBrain*

    Coming here to advocate for all of us neuro-spicy people with auditory processing differences…TURN OFF THE MUSIC! I cannot “filter out” two audio inputs (like having a conversation with the TV on in the “background”). It is not background for me. Trying to take a work call with music in the background (or have a phone conversation, or even an in person conversation…it is painful. Consider this as serious as fragrance free environments for those with sensitivities in that area. It is possible that your employee has a true NEED (not just a preference or an annoyance).

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  104. Ann O'Nemity*

    This is one of those times where it feels like the commenters on this blog lean more toward introverted or quiet workplaces. Everyone seems to be “Team Julie,” but in reality, she’s in the minority in her own office.

    A “quiet and focused” environment works well in law firms, accounting offices, or deep-focus coding teams, but PR and creative work is inherently more dynamic. Imposing strict silence risks dampening the energy that makes these workplaces thrive. A completely silent, library-like atmosphere doesn’t fit the culture of most PR and creative agencies, which rely on energy, brainstorming, and collaboration—often supported by background music, impromptu discussions, and a lively office environment.

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    1. PayRaven*

      Sure, but A. the thing that is also getting missed is that Julie (and anyone else who feels like Julie) is part of this office, and thus this office’s culture.

      That, and B. people’s ability to get work done HAS to trump “vibes” at some point, right?

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    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      100% agree with the intent of your post. There are things that I as an engineer want to do together too – we just don’t have collaborative whiteboard software that’s as good as 3 people standing side-by-side and working on the same block diagram together.

      Except – do we actually have any metrics for OP’s workplace that that’s the case? Quantity or quality?

      I think many office gimmicks are driven by managers who have no idea how to objectively measure success, and instead fall back on arbitrary cultural tropes or on the workarounds that we developed when we didn’t have advanced information systems.

      You had to stand around the same piece of posterboard and talk because you didn’t have collaborative text editing tools, with history capture, commenting, approval workflows, etc.

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    3. Jennifer Strange*

      Except that Julie isn’t the only one who has complained and her ability to work is more important than having a “buzzy office”. This isn’t Julie saying she wants the walls blue when everyone else wants them green; this is something that is directly impacting her work. If the office doesn’t care about that then they don’t really have a leg to stand on when stating she needs to be in the office for productivity reasons.

      Also, not wanting music played aloud is not “imposing strict silence risks”. People can still talk, have discussions, brainstorm. Unless they’re putting together something related to music, they don’t need the music (as evidenced by the fact the LW even says it’s only on 10% of the time).

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  105. Paddling below*

    I sympathize with Julie here, and think if this is something fixable for her (10% of the time sounds like infrequently enough to just turn it off altogether), you should. I worked for a PR/creative agency pre-pandemic and my desk was near the lobby. The lobby played music all the time, 5 days per week, but only loops of the same song, I assume because of copyright. Imagine Cake by the Ocean by DNCE or Sunshine by Matisyahu on a loop 9-5. I tuned it out best I could, but sometimes it sucked and I complained. Ultimately when we moved to a new office, they made a breezeway with doors so the music was contained. I think this hits differently because there was no WFH option for me at the time, but if that had been available, I would have chosen it every time. Try to see where she’s coming from.

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  106. mreasy*

    I work in the music industry and we rarely play music in our office! Everyone wears headphones if they want to listen, so that everyone is able to concentrate.

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      1. HonorBox*

        I like having music on, but damn if the wrong song comes on because I’ll drop everything and pretend I’m conducting the London Philharmonic.

        I think the thing is that music is such a personal and subjective choice. It is really hard, especially in an office, to play music that allows everyone to focus the same.

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  107. Eirian*

    Is LW totally sure they’re not denying an accessibility need here in saying “you can’t WFH, you have to come in, and you have to work with this noise or be banished from the usual workspace, thus defeating the alleged point of coming into work anyway”?

    There are lots of reasons why people may not be able to focus with music on. ADHD is one, and (dependent on where you live and work) accommodations may be a legal requirement, for example.

    Someone with (for example) misophonia may also not actually be able to control the “huffiness”, for instance, as the triggering sound causes a reflexive emotional response — sometimes disgust, rage, fear, etc. There are no universally effective treatments for misophonia, and usually it is recommended that the person avoid the sound lest their aversion get even worse. (That said, it’s usually caused by a specific subset of sounds, not a generalised “any music chosen by anyone else”. I’m just using it as an example to demonstrate that I think LW hasn’t really thought this through.)

    Plus, what are you calling “huffiness” here? I can imagine poor Julie simply getting up and moving, and THAT being construed as huffiness — even though that’s the only option LW has provided that answers her needs.

    I think LW should speak to Julie again and ask her to share more about what her problem with the music is, with an open mind instead of this attitude of “my way or the highway”. Maybe some compromise could be reached. To me, LW comes across as uncaring about Julie because she doesn’t just fall into line.

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  108. Designerly*

    I used to work in an open office space at a university, and there was a clueless (read: entitled) faculty member with her own private office adjacent to her space. Sometime,s she would turn on pop songs and blast them from her office with the door open. Everyone hated it (we were all trying to do computer work and/or take phone calls from colleagues and the music was disruptive). I always had to be the one to go remind her that staff members all around were trying to work while she was “getting inspired” and tell her to put in headphones. I think she thought she was just livening things up! Ugh.

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  109. Funkywizaard*

    I used to work in an office that had music played from speakers in the ceiling. I heard The Best Thing About Being a Woman at least three times a day. It made me nuts.

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  110. HonorBox*

    I don’t think Julie should be reacting the way she is, but I think she also deserves a bit more grace from everyone in the office, too. She gets up and moves… let’s not analyze her face and body language and try to determine HOW upset she might be that she’s moving.

    Also, maybe it is time to ask everyone to weigh in on how this is going. Julie may be the most obvious in disliking this, but now that you’ve got time under your belt OP, it would be worth asking everyone again how they’re feeling about this. Maybe there are particular music selections that are more bothersome than others. Maybe some have a strong preference for one type of music or another. Maybe there is general apathy toward the music. Maybe preference will be for non-commercial versus local radio. You’re seeing a strong reaction from one person, but you know there are others who don’t love it. Once you gather this information, you can evaluate how and when to continue playing music. I do like the suggestion others made above for a particular day of the week or an afternoon or two that feature music. Make those non-essential days, and those with preference can decide their schedules accordingly.

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    1. OP*

      A good point Honorbox – I don’t control/ have input on the music, but think a review of how we choose what’s playing and when it gets played is a good shout.

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  111. Liz Smith*

    I work in an open office environment, it sucks for many reasons, my main issue it seems to effect my productivity negatively. It would likely kill any/all concentration I had if they were playing music.

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  112. AnonForThis*

    What music? What ‘local radio’? Can Julie wear headphones?

    There’s plenty of music and talk radio that is distracting or offensive. There’s a radio 2 DJ I used to be forced to listen to, who liked to air ‘controversial’ topics like hearing ‘both sides’ on child labour.

    Oh and our local station recently referred to an anti-LGBTQ hate group as a “human rights charity”. Love 2025 Britain.

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  113. Overthinking It*

    On team Julie here! Especially using the RADIO to play music. All those ads and especially ruckus morning djs, are even more distraction than the music. And the problems with music itself are myriad, of which not liking the music itself is the least. See : lyrics the involuntary listeners finds offensive – for reasons other may not share; or lyrics that are provocative in another way, get tou thinking of something other than your work; songs that make you SAD; rhythms that are different from what you need: song you like a d want to sing/dance to; songs that cause you coworkers to hum or sing along; songs/tunes that get into your head and become earworms that can distract for hours or even days – really bad for obsessive type personalities. I like what Allison says about one person veto – in an office environment. (Retail/hospitality is different: your playing it for the customers. If bother the customers, they stay out of your establishment (you lose them as customers) but presumably, it attracts your target customer base.

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  114. A Julie too*

    So it’s ok for you to make her working environment completely uncomfortable, but when she does it it’s a problem? Why? She has to stop what she’s doing and pick up and move AGAIN. Somehow, I doubt this music is only on 10% of the time. My guess is you are only noticing it that much. I feel like this is a case of you don’t mind so it doesn’t matter.

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  115. Overthinking It*

    Alison asks how huffy are we talking about. A little sigh as she picks up her belongings to move isn’t “huffy”

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  116. Elspeth*

    The comments here are really interesting. For a number of years I worked in the headquarters of a financial services company – pretty conservative place overall. They always had Muzak/SiriusXM playing softly throughout the office. You also had the option to have it piped slightly louder through your phone if you wanted. I think the music went away then they remodeled, but it was in place for years and I never heard any complaints. The only time it bothered me was when they switched to holiday music and Dominick the Donkey would play – the obnoxious heehawing was extremely distracting haha.

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  117. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

    My employer mandates in-office work, even though I’m in a job that I could do at home. As I’ve repeatedly told my manager, it wouldn’t bother me so much being in the office 5-days a week if the work environment was quiet and comfortable. We came back after the pandemic to an open office plan and very noisy new employees (who replaced the many retirees).

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  118. Jennifer Strange*

    Just another thought (and apologies if I’m veering into fanfic territory): Has Julie been told anything about her productivity/work quality dipping lately? Because if I had expressed that a piece of the office culture was making it difficult for me to work, was told that it wasn’t going to change, and then dinged for my work I’d likely also be getting “huffy” in my response.

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    1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

      That is almost EXACTLY what happened to me at my last agency, and it was MISERABLE. It’s not the only reason that I left, but it was pretty high on the list.

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  119. Middle Name Jane*

    Acting “huffy” isn’t okay, but I also question the LW’s interpretation a bit since they seem to think the music is okay and that Julie is totally in the wrong, without seeming to consider Julie’s POV. Plenty of people can’t focus with music or other noise in the background.

    You add ADHD or other neurodivergent issues into the mix, and it can feel like an assault on one’s senses. It can be incredibly stressful for those employees.

    I don’t understand why offices choose to play music without regard for others. A fairer solution is to have no music in the background and allow employees to use headphones or earbuds if they want.

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  120. TinkerTailorSolderDye*

    This might bring down the hammer on me, but honestly, I’m split between supporting both.

    I come from a mostly retail/food service history, so I’m indifferent at this point with music; between listening to endless terrible pop mixes of Christmas songs and the exact same playlist every 59.24 minutes ad nauseum, a revolving mix of songs is actually kinda nice. However, that being said, now that my job requires a ton of writing and concentration, I stick to simple white noise generations, usually from mynoise.net, because I’ll lose my focus otherwise.

    LW, as a manager, I say it’s time to retire the music mixes just for the ‘buzzy’ feeling, or do a very much more in-depth dive into what mixes do work, what don’t, etc. Talk radio outside of a news station or group of journalists? Not a great idea. Maybe a simple white noise stream would be better for everyone’s concentration, while providing that ambiance. However, if Julie is, as Alison noted, injecting anger and frustration into things, this is an issue that has to be sorted out. She can hate her commute and prefer working at home, but expressing anger and frustration over music is frankly a bit precious. Now again, if there is a genuine problem with Julie’s ability to concentrate, that’s grounds to find a better option for music. If it’s just that she hates /that/ particular mix, well, maybe it’s time to ask what she likes to listen to, and add it into the rotation. But for 10% of the time, it may be worth it to keep things at just the white noise level anyway; either way, the best solution isn’t to just watch Julie get grouchy, it’s to communicate.

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  121. Dek*

    I don’t really like the “Can’t please everyone” comment because like…sure, you can’t please everyone. But then it seems like the default should be to take the path that doesn’t involve *actively* disturbing other people.

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  123. Ami*

    Two things I’d recommend taking into account here while you consider this:

    1. Is the music REALLY preferred by the majority, or is it preferred by a loud minority and tolerated/neutral by most? PR/Creative service can definitely cultivate the kind of charismatic and vocal personalities who can steamroll quieter people by accident. I would not like this at all either, but unless I was directly asked I wouldn’t consider it enough of an issue to speak up, and so would probably be read as “they like it, they never complained about it or asked us to turn it off.”

    2. Does Julie’s work require more head down time, more prolonged focus, or more phone calls where she receives specific feedback? For example, does she write a lot of press releases, or is she a graphic designed having calls with clients saying “this needs to be turquoise not teal, and moved precisely one centimeter up” or does she get assigned projects that need a lot of attention and don’t lend themselves well to multitasking? Music in the background making the office feel “buzzy” might be a boon to someone who spends a lot of time collaboratively bouncing ideas off their coworkers and finds background music raises the energy during a whiteboarding session, but it might be completely undermining the concentration of other employees like Julie.

    I’ll also chime in with my two cents: This would really bug me! If the radio was running, I would find it very distracting. I don’t like listening to radio hosts talk, and having to listen to obnoxious commercials playing (while I’m at work! Trying to concentrate!) would drive me up the wall. Music that I dislike would also be distracting to me, bringing down my mood and energy, and making extra work for me to try to tune out something annoying.

    Finally, if you’ve ever worked retail, you know how grating those canned playlists got. A problem with radio and playlists is, well, they’re a lot of the same songs over and over again. And you never know how close someone is to flipping their desk and running out screaming if they have to listen to Jar of Hearts one more time…

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  124. Cranky Old Bat*

    Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I had a temp job working for a wholesaler packing clothes to be shipped to retail stores. Management controlled the (loud) music and every day was a different format. Earplug/headsets were not permitted.

    Some days were much easier than others.

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  126. Kt*

    So, to be clear, you created a hard-to-work-in environment, told your employees to isolate themselves if your inconvenience is inconveniencing them and then you get mad when they have to pack up their stuff to move. Girl, be so for real right now, you want them to be happy about being in the ‘fun’ office and your annoyed they’d rather be WFH or at the very least not in an activity disruptive office.

    Anyone wanting to listen to something at work should be doing so through their own headphones, full stop.

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  127. F*

    I am very sympathetic! I have Misophonia, and this would drive me nuts! At my last job, one of my (very toxic, very protected by executive management) coworkers would BLARE 70s on 7 ALL DAY EVERY DAY!
    I wanted to scream with rage on the daily. 70s music to me is damn near bottom of the barrel, but I don’t care what radio station you have, it’s the same 10 songs over and over! This is why I stopped listening to radio over 20 years ago.
    I tried to tell HR I couldn’t focus with it on (I couldn’t) and I was not allowed my own headphones or ear plugs because unlike literally everyone else in the shop, I had to answer the phone!
    I was told by the executive protecting annoying coworker that it was “normal to have music in a shop environment.” which I understand, but then why was I stuck doing admin/financial paperwork in a shop!?!???
    Additionally, if someone had tried to change the music, toxic coworker would say he gets to pick the music because he’s “the one who pays for it.”
    No one asked him to pay for it!
    On days he’d be gone, we’d either play music from our phones (at a much more reasonable volume) or *gasp* have no music.
    I’d make sure that Alexa speaker “goes missing” quite frankly…

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  128. 1-800-BrownCow*

    I’m a Julie (without the huffiness). I can’t concentrate and do my work with background noise, like music playing. It’s way too distracting to me and frustrating because it makes me less productive. And I can totally sympathize with Julie right now as I’m dealing with noise distractions at work in terms of conversations. I unfortunately share an office with 2 other people who tend to get frequent visitors throughout the day. So, while I’m trying to write procedures or do online training/meetings, I’m constantly dealing with a conversation happening 2 feet away from me. Additionally, my shared office space is located in hallway where a lot of loud conversations take place. I used to be in a much quieter location in the building and miss it very much. I’ve tried speaking to management about it, but nothing has been done. And if you see me wearing headphones (which eventually start giving me a bad headache), I’m not actually listening to music. I’m either trying to block the noise or listening to sounds to help block voices and help me to concentrate better. There is not a coworking office for me to move to either, although occasionally I’ve packed up and moved into an open conference room, but then I’m stuck doing work on a small laptop screen instead of my 2 large screens at my desk. Also, some people spot me in a conference room alone and then feel the need to come in and chat to see what I’m up to, so I’m basically in the same situation being interrupted while trying to do work.

    Honestly, I can understand Julie being huffy if she’s already complained about it and nothing is being done. It might not be the most professional way to act, but I definitely understand the feeling.

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  129. Leslie*

    There was a time, HS- 20’s that I absolutely could not concentrate if there was background music , especially of it was a task that required concentration like essay, math.. I never understood my class mates and coworkers who could listen to someone singing as they did homework or filled a spreadsheet. Now, in my 40’s, I can listen to non-vocal music if I am working on a project that requires concentration. I still can’t listen to singing and try to concentrate.

    Reply ↓

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