open thread – February 28, 2025

by Alison Green on February 28, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Unemployed PM*

    Does anyone know how to get a temp job in 2025? I haven’t temped in 20 years, and at that point I went into an office, took a computer test, and was placed in the office job. I’ve been unemployed for over a year, and I need some cash flow, and I need to get out of the house. My professional experience is in project management, but I don’t care what kind of temp work I do, I just want a bit more structure, social interaction, and some cash. I sent my resume to a few agencies I found online, but haven’t heard back.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      There are some national agencies like Robert Half, Manpower, etc that might be able to help if you haven’t done those already. Otherwise search for “staffing agency” or “temp agency” + your area and see what comes up?

      Reply ↓
      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        I think they’re asking which ones and how.

        I also tried staffing agencies a few times and every time has felt like they’re collecting resumes to appear busy, then you find out their list of available jobs is tiny or the jobs are very low pay, like $14/hr front part time front desk coverage

        I once got a job through a reputed one (I think it was Robert Half but dont quote me). I negotiated pay based on it being “full time.” Found out first day that full time to them is 32 hours not 40. I quit on the spot because the rep acted like it was weird that I cared about money (and the hourly rate was low to begin with), and they made it seem like I was the unprofessional one.

        Reply ↓
        1. Landry*

          32 hours is considered full time at a lot of places. I’d double check the exact number when you hear “full time” to confirm you’re on the same page.

          Word of warning — I would suggest not quitting on the spot again if you use another agency. It’s very easy to get a reputation as being unreliable and flaky, and that will make the agency less likely to suggest you for future placements.

          Reply ↓
          1. Busy Middle Manager*

            eh, I mean, I was there for two+ hours for an interview with multiple people, felt a bit scammy to “forget” to mention it’s 20% less hours than most FT jobs when they discussed literally everything under the sun. Mentioned that would’ve taken 10 extra seconds. I don’t want to get into the habit of shafting desperate people like this

            Reply ↓
        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Sorry. I originally read and responded very quickly while waiting for a food order. I was clearly weak from huger during my original post.

          Reply ↓
    3. I Super Believe In You, Tad Cooper*

      Have you taken a look at FlexProfessionals?

      I’ve had good experiences with them in the past, and they’re the only temp/flex-work agency that’s actually reached out to me about jobs they thought might be a good fit and helped fast-track interviews with potential employers.

      Reply ↓
    4. Mx. Snuffleupagus*

      In my last job search I didn’t have much luck with the staffing agency I talked to, but I found one by applying to a job on LinkedIn posted by a staffing agency. They did a zoom interview with me and sent me a couple job listings until I unsubscribed. LinkedIn also lets you filter job searches by full-time/part-time/temp work.

      I also don’t know if this is a thing in other industries, but I found some higher ed institutions have temp pools you could join that they pull from when temp positions came up — if there’s a college or university near you, you could look into joining one of those.

      Reply ↓
      1. Higher-ed Jessica*

        I was going to suggest that very thing. If you live near a large university, many have in-house temp agencies and they have all kinds of jobs.

        Reply ↓
        1. M2*

          I second this. Check out universities close by and either apply to a temp agency, or just directly to the role. Since you have PM experience maybe look at a Program Manager or Center Manager roles? You could also take up maybe a certificate program.

          Also, some universities have PT roles or term roles (a semester/etc), apply to those. I think they might get less applicants, but with your foot in the door work hard and once the role is done or after you have been there apply for FT other positions. Or ask your manager if they could contact X department on your behalf.

          Reply ↓
    5. Ally McBeal*

      I temped extensively from 2008-11 but have only worked with one temp agency since then, back in 2021. In all cases I emailed my resume to the contact listed on the agency’s website and was followed up with fairly quickly by a human to come in for an interview & skills evaluation. If it’s been a few days since you sent in your resume, I would just give them a call to follow up – it’s possible they’re massively overwhelmed with all the federal workers who’ve been laid off and they just haven’t gotten through their stack of resumes yet.

      Reply ↓
    6. RagingADHD*

      In 2024, I looked at local job listings for the types of role I was interested in that were listed by staffing agencies, applied for those roles and also checked the agencies’ websites for temp listings or a general submission email, and used those.

      When I got a phone screen, I also asked the recruiter what I could do that would make my resume more competitive, and got some very useful advice about layout, wording, specific skills to list in detail, and even some recommendations for (quick) certifications I could get through Udemy or LinkedIn Learning that would help push my resume up for consideration. Smart agencies are happy to help with this because it helps them have a more salable “product.”

      It took a little longer for me because I was looking for a perm or temp-to-perm role, and had pretty high pay expectations for the market. If you’re willing to do short-term and short-notice assignments and aren’t making a high ask on rate, you should be able to get placed pretty quickly if you have the relevant skills.

      Hope that helps!

      Reply ↓
    8. Joie De Vivre*

      If you live in a metro area, you could try calling the local city government office and ask if they use temps and what firms. I got my current job through a small staffing firm used by the city.

      Good luck.

      Reply ↓
      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        My state government also uses temps. They’re called LTEs (limited term employees), and you can find open positions in the online job site for the state.

        Reply ↓
    9. Lemons*

      Yes to staffing agency, Robert Half is fine. I had a really bad experience with MBO Partners, so I’d say avoid them (they charged me for employer taxes as a W2 employee, as well as a service fee). Google “staffing agency” plus the type of work you want to do.

      Also, contact a bunch!! A lot will either ghost you or not really result in any work after you get into their system. Look them up on LinkedIn to see if they’re actively posting jobs and reach out that way. Personal connections are always best if you can swing them.

      Reply ↓
  2. cloud*

    There have been several high-level employee departures in my department over the last month or so culminating with the announcement this week that our CFO will be leaving in a few weeks as well. I work in finance and was honestly shocked to hear that our CFO is leaving, as was everyone I work with. The reasons given for the departure were vague, but I get the sense it may not have been voluntary.

    I’m not sure what to make of all of this, but it does leave me with the feeling that things are somewhat unstable right now. I don’t know if that’s fair though – my manager is doing everything she can to reassure us that our team is solid and turnover at this time of year is also common (it’s right after our busiest period and everyone just received their annual bonuses). Our CEO is also being up front about immediate plans for our vacant positions and priorities for the finance area as a whole. I think it’s mostly the fact that the people who have left are high-level employees that’s making me uneasy in spite of the reassurances. Basically, it’s causing me to wonder if something else is going on that we don’t know about.

    Wondering if anyone has been through something similar? Is it too soon to be reconsidering my future here or should I take this as a sign to start looking for a new job?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cal J*

      Searching for and applying to other jobs might give you a sense of control during this time when things are feeling turbulent and out-of-control. Doesn’t mean you have to leave, but what do you lose by seeing what else is out there?

      Reply ↓
      1. MsM*

        Agreed, but I’d focus on jobs that would be interesting to you even if everything was going smoothly while you wait to see how things play out. It’s possible whatever’s going on was limited to the CFO and people in their immediate orbit, or that there’s just a perfect storm right now of people leaving for their own idiosyncratic reasons. If weeks pass and things still feel uneasy or new developments come to light, you can ramp up the search.

        Reply ↓
        1. cloud*

          Thanks for responding, I think this makes sense. I’m planning to give this a little time to see how things play out but will also be updating my resume in the meantime so that I’m as prepared as I can be.

          Reply ↓
    2. AW_Recruiter*

      I work for a recruiting firm, and we do tend to see a jump in volume in the new year. Your manager is correct that people who might otherwise want to leave wait until after their year end bonuses/they see what their raise is to start looking. That doesn’t address any underlying concerns that might have led people to look, so there still might be a good reason to look yourself (what else do you know about the state of the company?), but a group of folks leaving at the start of the year isn’t in and of itself cause for concern.

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    3. Cabbagepants*

      Listen to your gut. Your manager is not a reliable source of information about this! Companies will always avoid disclosing issues. Your boss is strongly motivated with stopping anyone else from leaving right now and so of course they’re going to say that nothing is wrong, business as usual, ignore the man behind the curtain.

      Reply ↓
    4. Chauncy Gardener*

      Are you in a public or private company? (If public, they will have more disclosure requirements re-the CFO leaving) How is revenue, gross profit and EBITDA? Do you get audited? If so, how has that been going?
      I ask because this info, if you see issues, can help you decide what your next steps might be.
      Either way, I would polish up your resume in case you decide to start looking.

      Reply ↓
      1. cloud*

        Thanks for this. I’m at a public company – the announcement that our CFO is leaving came a few days after we filed our 10-K for 2024 (I’m sure that timing was intentional). I’ve looked at the 8-K that was filed regarding the departure and it’s uninformative. Our audit for 2024 was uneventful, and revenue, gross profit and EBITDA are all up compared to last year. I’m not really concerned about the company financially, it’s more that I wonder if something else is going on with leadership. I’ll definitely be polishing up my resume just in case.

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    5. Response Junkie*

      I went through something similar a few years ago, although with a city government so YMMV. There were some leadership changes in quick succession which felt…disconcerting. It was mostly just a timing issue so things weren’t inherently unstable, but the biggest thing was everyone feeling like it was and so they started looking and when they left it only added to the feeling of instability. Very much a negative feedback loop that it sounds like your org might be on the brink of just because of circumstance, not because of anything actually being wrong?

      You’ll have to assess your workplace but if you decide to stay just brace yourself for others to leave because it feels off. Do you trust your coworkers enough to have a candid conversation about this? Regardless I’d be encouraged by leadership sharing plans for vacancies and your manager trying to explain it. Can you ask someone with a lot of tenure what they think?

      Reply ↓
  3. JP*

    I recently accepted a job offer, withdrawing from another job where I had been in the final round of interviews. The second job seemed extremely promising to become an offer, but I withdrew before I found out, because time was running out to give a decision to the first offer.

    Both jobs had pros and cons; the one I withdrew from paid much more, but gave me some slight red flags around work-life balance.

    I’m now 4 weeks into my new job and can’t stop thinking about “the one that got away” and questioning my decision, even though I did what made sense at the time (weighing factors around timing, work-life balance, and wanting to act with integrity to both employers). Worse still, one of my colleagues at my previous org may be about to get this other job, and I feel jealous!

    How do I mentally move on?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      I always have to be careful not to create “dream scenarios” of alternatives I didn’t follow. It’s kind of how my brain works but now that I know about it, I can deal with it directly. The job you didn’t take had tons of downsides you just don’t see, while of course you are confronted directly with downsides of your current job. Then again, if you truly aren’t liking your new job at four weeks, that’s an important data point. Are you unhappy with specific things? Or just overwhelmed / sad / the honeymoon phase is wearing off as it would in ANY role?

      Reply ↓
    2. Rex Libris*

      The choice is already made. Whether you made the best choice is largely up to how invested you are in making it so.

      There is never any way to know what would have happened (good or bad) if you had taken another road, so focus on having a good trip on the one you’re on.

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    3. Required*

      As someone who constantly thinks of the what-ifs, you kind of just let time do its thing. If the job gave you red flags about the work-life balance, then you probably were right, especially since people usually don’t find out about those issues until after they start working. Money is cool, but you can’t buy back time away from work with the extra money you make. Try focusing on the fact that you have a job you currently enjoy (or at least have no issues with) that pays the bills and gives you enough money and time to enjoy your personal life.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hlao-roo*

      A few suggestions (feel free to use any that sound helpful and ignore any you’ve already tried/know won’t work for you):

      – Journal your thoughts and feelings about this. Write down how you know you made the right decision based on the information you had at the time, how you feel about the red flags around work-life balance at “the one that got away,” how you feel about the new job you just started, how you feel about your previous colleague getting “the one that got away,” etc. Writing it all down might help you stop thinking about it.

      – If writing it all down doesn’t do it for you, maybe try journaling about these specific things:
      * how it would have felt if you turned down the offer you took, and did not receive an offer from “the one that got away”
      * all the ways “the one that got away” could have been a bad fit for you (poor work-life balance to start with, but maybe also bad commute, jerk boss, jerk coworkers, work processes that are bureaucratic nightmares, etc.)
      – all of the things you like about the job you just started

      – Write the job title/company name of “the one that got away” on a scrap of paper and burn it in a little “release and let go” sort of ritual

      – Talk the situation through with a supportive friend or family member (someone who will say “that was a tough choice but you made the right move” and lots of “uh huhs” and “uh ohs” at the appropriate places, not someone who will say “how could you have turned down more money???”)

      – If you’re mostly ruminating on this outside of work, try to redirect yourself to your hobbies, spending time with friends/family (not talking about work), cleaning your house, etc.

      Reply ↓
    6. MsSolo (UK)*

      If possible, I would try and put a mental pin in it, especially knowing a former colleague might get it – setting a date and time to revisit a worry or obsessive thought helps me put it aside in the present. Pin it for a point in the future where your colleague (if they get it) will have settled in, and you can arrange a catch up. Maybe they’ll let you know the work-life balance really is that bad, and you can put it to rest, or maybe it’ll be sunshine and roses, and you can let them know you’d be open to joining them in anything opens up.

      Reply ↓
    7. Claire*

      Remind yourself that’s like saying a person is “the one who got away” when you never even dated them. You are just fantasizing about what that other job would be like; you have no real data about what it would be like.

      Reply ↓
    9. Momma Bear*

      Do you feel this way because you felt under pressure from the company that gave you an offer first? Sometimes not knowing what might have been can be worse than knowing what was behind Door #2. We often What If ourselves into missing good things, but What If it would have been worse? You saw red flags about work-life balance. Don’t ignore what your gut was telling you.

      Bottom line was they didn’t give you a timely answer and you had a valid offer in hand. See how this one plays out and if in a year or so you still want to jump ship and your colleague is there, maybe that will give you an “in” to jump ship. But lean into the good things about this job first before you make any big decisions. Even a new pet needs 3 months to acclimate.

      Reply ↓
    10. JB (not in Houston)*

      What helps me sometimes is remembering that I’d probably also have regrets if I had gone with the other option. If those red flags had turned out to be accurate, would the fact that it paid more really made the poor work-life balance ok? Wouldn’t you be feeling regret that you let your current job get away?

      We are always making choices based on the information we have available at the time, and in the job situation, we can’t ever know ahead of time that we’re making the right choice. Who knows what would have happened at the other job?

      Reply ↓
    11. Artemesia*

      Denial, repression, dissociation — whatever tools you can have to move this off your mental menu, use them. I am a great regretter and naturally anxious. These tools do help.

      e.g. When I had moved to a new place and not sold the old one I told myself I would not think about it or panic till 6 mos had passed and left it to the realtor to manage. We closed 6 mos later and I didn’t spend those 6 months in a swivet which would be my usual way to pass the time.

      On a grimmer note, I lost my adult son and there is a lot of guilt and regret involved — dissociation, compartmentalization, denial are the only things that keep me from not being miserable every day. When there is nothing to be done, do what you can to compartmentalize the pain.

      So does it help to imagine all the bad things that could have gone wrong in the job you didn’t take? Does it help to realize that you might not have had that offer? Can you DECIDE to not think about that alternative; every time your mind goes there, crush that out. As Martin Luther put it, you can’t help the birds flying over your head but you can prevent them nesting in your hair. Every time that thought flies over, shoe it away.

      Reply ↓
  4. New hybrid supervisor*

    I’ve been at current company for since just before the pandemic. We worked from home until spring 2021 and went back to the office full time. Top management didn’t allow WFH before the pandemic and were forced into it. We were fully able to operate remotely, although some people did badly and were fired (as in not doing their work). Previous top management has retired and we’ve got an entirely new team. Morale was suffering some. After an employee survey that showed a huge desire for hybrid, the new management decided to give it a try with one WFH day a week. A few people are not doing well after their first day. The goal was to give all employees one day at home and assess from there. One member of the five person team I supervise had massive problems. Tom is mid-career and lacks tech skills. He reminds me of the guy who was mentioned in the Friday thread recently who was temporarily WFH and asked someone in the office to print and scan something instead of using print to PDF. Tom did maybe 1/3 of his usual workload. He was constantly asking someone in the office to combine separate documents into one pdf or to print and scan something for him.

    When the one day WFH experiment was announced, there were some clear rules. You couldn’t ask anyone in the office to do something for you. You had to have two monitors (we have two in the office with our desktop PCs). Talking with Tom the next day, I found that he doesn’t have the two monitors he said he had. Just a laptop. That really cut his productivity. It also seems he’s constantly asking others on the team for tech help. It got him by in the office, but he crashed without that help at home. He really knows his stuff and is an excellent employee – in the office. Going hybrid was not guaranteed for everyone. You had to earn it and do all your work at home like in the office. Tom has definitely not met the guidelines to be allowed to WFH. He’s very disappointed. Should he be given another shot after he ups his tech skills? What about the monitor issue? It was made clear to employees that the company would not be providing any monitors or laptops. Everyone has to connect to a remote desktop. We all used our own computers and monitors at home during Covid. Important bit: this is the first time ever WFH for Tom. He was in office all through the pandemic at a different company and had been with our company for three years.

    Any tips on how to handle this?

    Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        He desperately wants to be hybrid. He was very disappointed when I told him his one day WFH experiment didn’t go well at all.

        Reply ↓
        1. ScruffyInternHerder*

          Oh dear.

          In this case, I think he’s going to have to get up to speed with the tech requirements before he can do so. Is it possible to set some requirements/benchmarks for those tech requirements (both skills that he needs and equipment that he’ll need to purchase) and that once those are demonstrated (skills) and procured (equipment) he may try the experiment again? With documentation?

          Reply ↓
          1. WantonSeedStitch*

            This. Set expectations about what he needs to work from home. If he needs to gain skills, give him the opportunity to gain those skills through professional development (whether that looks like taking an online training or like sitting with a colleague who knows how to do something and learning from them, or whatever), and then once he can document this has been completed and that he has the necessary equipment, give him a chance to have a one-day WFH. See how it goes. If it’s satisfactory, give him a day per week for, say, a month or six weeks and reassess at that point to see if it can. become permanent or if it’s just not going to work in the long run.

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        2. Beth*

          Give him another chance once he has documented meeting the requirements. Tell him he needs to 1) show you that he has the monitors at home, and 2) improve on his tech skills (my suggested goal would be “demonstrates he can look up and follow a tutorial when he hits a tech knowledge gap”–that’s a useful skill overall, and one that will probably boost his in office efficiency as well as make WFH possible). If he can demonstrate both of those, why wouldn’t you give him another chance?

          Reply ↓
        3. JSPA*

          If he’s never done it, expecting him to understand why the details matter, and be ready to do it smoothly, is a big ask; a lot of us limped along during the early weeks of the pandemic.

          Is there a university surplus, local tech repair dude who sells screens on the side (or similar) where he could pick up a couple of screens for $20 each, maybe even a hub, and only have to buy some cables? Tell him you’re giving him 2 or 3 weeks (his choice) to get his setup sorted, and think through how to function without contacting anyone at the office to be his gofer. And then you’re willing to try ONE more time.

          Reply ↓
      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        Yes! If he’s struggling, he might prefer in-office work. (I know people who just prefer going into the office because it’s easier to concentrate.)

        Reply ↓
        1. New hybrid supervisor*

          He’s struggling because he didn’t have the two monitors needed to efficiently work. Two are definitely needed. There’s also his lack of tech skills and leaning much more on coworkers than I was aware of.

          Reply ↓
          1. Banana Pyjamas*

            Let him know that he can use an hdmi cord to use his tv as a second monitor. I’ve had to do that a couple times with my laptop.

            Reply ↓
            2. Spreadsheet Queen*

              This is exactly what I used to do to WFH when I was sick, and again at the beginning of the pandemic. Once it was clear we weren’t going back for a good while (and in fact, never did), I decided that I did not want to work off a folding table in front of the TV in my living room indefinitely. So I bought another monitor, and adjustable sit/stand thing for my home desk, etc. (And at some point, bought a small stand for the laptop, moved a 2nd monitor to my desk – and in practice had 3 screens!)
              I have worked with people who work exclusively from their laptops with no external monitor(s) and I don’t get how they possibly do Excel that way. (Also the laptops most companies issue now are only 13-14 inch and my eyesight is just not that good.)

              Reply ↓
              1. Landry*

                Oh, that’s me. I’ve been offered a second monitor at two jobs, but it’s much easier for me to work on one laptop. I’ve had coworkers with multiple monitors, external keyboards, the works. All I need is my laptop and occasionally an external mouse.

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            3. darcyva*

              I was fortunate to get a 2nd monitor from my job – my husband was not – but he purchased one from FB Marketplace for $20 + connecting cords from somewhere (best buy? amazon?) for very little expense, and it’s been working well for years.

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          2. Sharon*

            The leaning on coworkers needs to be addressed whether he WFH or not. If he’s constantly asking others for tech help, he’s impacting THEIR productivity. This guy needs tech training to get to the level expected for his role.

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    2. Geek5508*

      Give him 2 to 4 weeks to bring his WFH setup up to speed, then revisit for another trial period. If that does not work then he will have to work onsite

      Reply ↓
      1. Strive to Excel*

        And while he’s doing that, he needs to work on getting his own tech skills up. Even if he fails, having other members of the office unavailable for tech questions because *they* are working from home may impact him as well.

        Reply ↓
    3. FashionablyEvil*

      If he’s otherwise an excellent employee, I’d give him another shot at this. (Also, really crappy that your company didn’t/doesn’t provide any technology for WFH.) Explain what the key deficiencies are that need to be corrected (learning how to deal with the PDFs, having an appropriate workstation) and see how it goes.

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        Well, given prior top management was against WFH, it’s not surprising. Only top management has company issued laptops. Everyone else has desktop PCs. Why buy any new tech stuff before company knows how hybrid will work out?

        Reply ↓
        1. RC*

          Wow, I haven’t bought a new desktop since 2003. In the office nobody ever needs to take their computers into a meeting or anything? Nobody goes on work travel?

          Reply ↓
          1. New hybrid supervisor*

            Only top management travels. I’ve been in the work force since the 90s and I’ve never had a work laptop.

            Reply ↓
      2. Beth*

        It’s not surprising that WFH tech isn’t provided when management up-front doesn’t want people to be WFH. The company is treating it as a perk you can earn if you make it easy for the company (read: can be trusted to do the same work you’d do in-office with no additional support). If someone can’t or doesn’t want to make that happen, it sounds like leadership would be thrilled to have them in office every day.

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        1. New hybrid supervisor*

          OLD management didn’t want WFH. NEW management is open to it. Why should people who can’t handle it WFH? If someone had never worked from home before and was proven to not be doing their work, do you think they should be allowed to continue? Tom works just fine on the regular proprietary industry software we use. His tech issues are things like combining PDFs, print to PDF, etc., adjacent type stuff but still necessary to the job. He does his work IN THE OFFICE, the customers love him, he helps others. He’s pleasant. The only issues are his tech skills and monitor issues for WFH. I don’t like that he lied about the monitor issue. Even if he did have two monitors at home, he would still need to improve on things to be able to WFH

          Reply ↓
          1. Beth*

            Whoa, I was just saying that it’s unsurprising that the company isn’t paying for WFH equipment like monitors when they aren’t exactly encouraging people to WFH. In a workspace where WFH is expected (like a fully remote company), I would expect the employer to provide at least a basic setup. In a company that’s mostly in-person and treats WFH like a perk, it’s more normal to expect people to provide some of their own setup if they want to take advantage of it.

            Reply ↓
      3. Parrhesia25*

        It’s not just crappy, it can be a liability risk. For all you know your employees tech is out of date and has no anti-virus or security.

        Reply ↓
    4. snowglobe*

      If he can get his tech skills up, give him another trial WFH. But if I were you, I would want to see him flying with tech in the office (not asking colleagues for supporting, confidently using simple efficiencies (like print to pdf), and being able to troubleshoot simple issues himself (such as changing display settings on his screen). Without that, I don’t see how someone can work effectively from home. But if he can up his skills, he deserves the same flexibility as everyone else. (But obviously only if he meets the at-home equipment requirements. I think it would be fair to also want to see proof of that since you know he was dishonest about it previously).

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      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        Yes, this is pretty much the direction I was leaning myself. Our manager, too. There was discussion at first of requiring employees to provide a photo of their home work station, but that was thought to be over the top.

        Reply ↓
        1. Insubordinate Clause*

          Maybe seems over the top, but definitely done. My company was 100% WFH during the pandemic and we were expected to get our home office equipment set up appropriately. My manager messaged us with something like, “Please send me a photo of your home office when it’s set up. It will be so interesting for me to see!” We knew she has an alternative motive but ehhh…it’s a business and productivity is important.

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        2. Paint N Drip*

          I think it IS over the top as a baseline rule, but certainly a reasonable request from someone who is struggling with WFH

          Reply ↓
    5. Grits McGee*

      I think it depends on the answers to 2 questions:
      1. How good of an employee is Tom, actually? If he falls to pieces without the constant assistance of people in the office (after 3 years!), then that’s concerning. It might be time to reassess Tom’s performance in the office as well as thinking about WFH.

      2. How big of a deal is the lie about the monitors? Did he actually sign something saying he had equipment he actually didn’t? The dishonesty is what would really give me pause about WFH.

      If you are still open to Tom working from home after answering those questions, I think you have to treat it like a PIP. Set goals for Tom to meet before you will allow a second attempt at WFH. He has to demonstrate mastery necessary of tech skills and ability to work independently, via whatever metrics make sense in your situation.

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        Tom is an excellent employee. He really knows his job and is great with customers. Always willing to share his knowledge with newer coworkers and others on the team. Helps out when needed with workload issues. He’s fine on the proprietary software used in our industry. He falls down on the other tech skills.

        The two monitors are needed. We’re mostly paperless. You have to have info up on both monitors to efficiently work. Otherwise you’re constantly going between bringing windows between foreground and background.

        Reply ↓
        1. New hybrid supervisor*

          He didn’t sign anything about the two monitors, but that might be something that has to be addressed going forward.

          Reply ↓
        2. Grits McGee*

          But how blatant was the lie about the monitors? That’s what I’m getting at- is Tom honest, can he be trusted to do the work when he’s not under the direct supervision of being in the office?

          Reply ↓
    6. Stuart Foote*

      Clearly Tom doesn’t have the skills to WFH now, and if his skills are lacking that much I doubt he will be in the foreseeable future, especially if he doesn’t have the proper equipment.

      However, I’ve just worked from a laptop since the pandemic started (even though I could have had two monitors). So it is possible.

      Reply ↓
    7. Anon for This*

      Are you sure he was struggling because of his lack of tech skills, or does he ask other people to do this kind of stuff for him in the office all the time? Honestly, I would keep a close eye on him in the office to be sure he is actually doing his own work. If it is just tech, see if he can take some training and ask him to demonstrate the skills he would need to work from home before you let him do it again. (And not being honest about the equipment he has at home is a red flag for me. Trust, but verify.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Momma Bear*

        This. It is one thing to wrangle a PDF now and then, but if it means that someone is *never* doing that task, then it’s a problem beyond WFH.

        I think it’s multi-fold here – that he doesn’t have 2 monitors, that he’s not up to speed (after 3 years) with basic tech, and he hasn’t proven he can keep up his productivity WFH. I’d also consider starting him out as WFH at the very lowest level, like one day a week. I’d clearly lay out benchmarks and a timeframe and see if he steps up or not. He can be disappointed or he can work for the benefit he wants.

        Reply ↓
    8. Bunny Watson*

      I can’t see how he can be an excellent employee without the needed tech skills as he needs those whether he’s in the office or at home. He’s clearly been able to hide this lack more when in office, so I’m wondering what work he’s dumping on others for awhile now that this was able to remain hidden. Definitely reassess and pay closer attention to getting that addressed before thinking about the ability to work from home.

      Reply ↓
    9. Hyaline*

      I may be in the minority, but if you remember switching to remote back in the pandemic, there were hiccups and hurdles and we had to suss a lot of things out before most of us reached our usual level of productivity. It’s bonkers to expect that everyone’s first WFH day in this new system be equivalent to a normal day–it shouldn’t be a massive waste, but I think it’s normal that there’s an on-ramp. It should be more equivalent by the time everyone’s settled in (but even then…depending on the work, some people might use WFH for deep work or lots of catching up or other things that measure less efficient but are absolutely contributing to their overall productivity–so I, personally, would still be measuring by weekly or monthly productivity, not “is a WFH day exactly the same as an in-person day). I’d give it a month of hybrid schedule at least before deciding Tom can’t hack it–but I would also be very clear that these challenges need to be addressed and overcome, and if Tom can’t manage the tech aspects of WFH he will not be able to continue with it. Make sure he knows what resources he has for learning to manage his tech (whether that’s you showing him, or Google :P )

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        Many of the current employees were there during pandemic and WFH just fine. These people did not have any issues.

        Reply ↓
        1. Diana*

          Or maybe they did and you just didn’t know about the problems then? I have 1 monitor that I use at home with my laptop (so two screens) and if I have to be someplace with just my laptop, I work slower, but still can work. BUT I didn’t realize HOW much slower I worked for a couple of weeks of WFH. It can take a bit to get into that. At the same time, if he doesn’t know how PDFs work, how is he dealing with that in the office?

          Reply ↓
        2. Great Frogs of Literature*

          Yes, but these people have experience making the switch to WFH — Tom hasn’t. Hyaline’s point is that the first-ever WFH day isn’t a good metric for their overall WFH productivity. Tom needs to get the the tech stuff sorted out — both tech skills and the physical hardware — and it’s possible WFH won’t ever be a good fit for him, but it wouldn’t at all surprise me if it took a few weeks for someone to really get into the WFH swing of things and then become at least as productive on their remote days as in the office.

          Reply ↓
    10. Head Sheep Counter*

      So wait… the company requires a setup that the employee has to provide themselves? And further had the gumption to have a discussion about photographing private equipment? Surely there are loaner monitors or some such thing. And if its a work requirement… its dodgy to make that an employee expense.

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        WFH is not required. This was a test at a request of many of the employees. People can work in the office and not do WFH if they don’t want to.

        Reply ↓
        1. Julian*

          I see your point, but “you can work hybrid if you have the money for equipment set up” is not a great stance for a company to take. Lots do, but I personally don’t think that’s okay. If it was just the monitor, I could see an argument for it, but it sounds like the employees also have to use their own laptop/desktop at home.

          Reply ↓
          1. New hybrid supervisor*

            Those of us here during the pandemic worked on our home tech for a year. Virtually all of us had laptop and two monitors before that. We connect to a remote desktop. We’re making some progress is new top management is willing to give hybrid a try. The management hated it. Maybe the current office PCs will eventually be replaced with laptops. I don’t know. Would you prefer no WFH at all?

            Reply ↓
    11. WellRed*

      I think a one day try out is a bit ridiculous. It takes time to work out the kinks. But it sounds like Tom may need to get up to speed.

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        Other team/department members didn’t have the massive issues Tom did. They were very close to usual workload done. But they all have two monitors at home.

        Reply ↓
        1. Beth*

          It sounds like they also have more experience with WFH than Tom does – it’s not surprising that people who did it during the pandemic would be able to jump back in more smoothly (both in terms of having the tech setup and in terms of knowing how to work efficiently) than someone who’s never done it before. I don’t think you need to let Tom WFH and hope he gets better at it, but I do think you should treat this as “we identified these gaps, let’s resolve them and then you can try again” instead of “you clearly can’t handle this”.

          Reply ↓
      2. Momma Bear*

        I do think a few weeks of a trial WFH is better than a day. Weird things happen – VPN gets overloaded, the ISP craps itself, etc. I wouldn’t pin it on a one-day trial.

        Providing your own gear is not ideal, but I got my 2nd monitor off Freecycle. I also sometimes screencast to my TV. There’s inexpensive options.

        Reply ↓
    12. Llellayena*

      If the primary difficulty is the second monitor, are there spare monitors around the office that could be “signed out” so he can take it home? Do a second trial day with the second monitor and see if that brings him up to a trainable level. Then a short course of computer training to fix the skills he’ll need from home. It sounds like he WANTS to be trained for this so he has the option so he should be pretty eager to learn. Have him be in office until his skills are up and then reevaluate for the WFH.

      Reply ↓
      1. New hybrid supervisor*

        IT was insistent they weren’t going to loan any equipment, but I’ll see if our manager can talk them into it.

        Reply ↓
      2. Great Frogs of Literature*

        I will add a BIG caveat that transporting unboxed monitors is difficult. Even if you have a car and your commute is a door-to-door drive, the changes of a monitor being damaged are non-trivially high.

        Reply ↓
  5. Not mad, just disappointed, Fed*

    After another bruising week, I’m making exit plans to the non-government world and I’d be super grateful for help figuring out where I can make the best use of the skills I’ve developed as a fed.

    I work in an oversight/records management-adjacent role, and I have a lot of expertise with federal records management, finding information in pretty obscure gov documents, and managing lots of detailed information with minimal software support. I think that would translate into jobs that that involve getting information from the government, litigation, filing FOIA requests, etc and keeping it organized, but I’m not sure what industries or job titles one would search for those kinds of positions.   

    Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      Private companies with government arcontracts often are looking for people with this kind of experience. So are state and local governments.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not mad, just disappointed, Fed*

        I’m trying to stay away from government contractors, state/local govs, and any orgs that are reliant on federal funding. People are going to learn soon how many jobs are reliant on the expectation of federal money. :(

        Reply ↓
    4. Pyanfar*

      Someone from the AEC field here…look into Document Control positions with engineering, construction, and pharmaceutical companies. Very similar skill set, lots of similar software. If you like the computer side, electronic discovery (or ediscovery) might be an option.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ginger Baker*

        Electronic discovery or litigation services/support could be a good fit. BigLaw pays quite well fwiw. Any compliance or conflict check work could be good too.

        Reply ↓
    5. Tio*

      Search for compliance related roles, or database management perhaps if you stretch it a bit. Many companies don’t know what they’re not in compliance with and could use more help than they realize getting their records in order

      Reply ↓
    6. AnonAnon*

      Are you familiar with ARMA the records management society? If not, get on their site and maybe join. They have several conferences with companies from all over the US. I went in October. There are so many non-government companies that do this and provide these solutions to other companies.

      I am in Pharma and we use the term RIM — records information management. SO much need in Pharma for this.

      I just saw a position open today at my old company for a records librarian which included being able to find publications for internal use/pharma studies, etc.

      Best of luck!!

      Reply ↓
      1. Not mad, just disappointed, Fed*

        I’m familiar with ARMA, but haven’t had much involvement- will definitely check it out!

        Thank you for all of the suggestions, this is really helpful!

        Reply ↓
    7. Kez*

      Consider records management in institutions like college/university registrar’s offices or policy advisory roles that operate within often complex systems of documentation and interpretation. Good luck with your search!

      Reply ↓
    8. AI reseller*

      Everyone is gaga about Chatbots and LLMs, but the public versions can’t be trusted to provide correct answers, just grammatical ones.

      The key to having a Chatbot give trusted answers is called Retrieval Augmented Generation (RAG) where the ‘bot has to refer to a database of trusted/validated information to generate any answers. The key is having a database of known-good source documents that is kept current as information is created and updated.

      It sounds like you have the right background to curate that kind of information, so just about any company who is serious about implementing LLMs should be interested in your skills.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not mad, just disappointed, Fed*

        Thank you for sharing this, it’s really interesting- a there’s a lot of interest in AI records management solutions (to try to fix decades of under-resourcing…), and I’ve been skeptical due to the lack of quality data for training.

        Reply ↓
    9. RagingADHD*

      I work in the Office of the Corporate Secretary for a large public company, and those skills are relevant to both our area and the Regulatory Compliance area.

      Reply ↓
    10. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This is also valuable experience in the marketing/sales/RFP/contracting cycle. So look for things like sales support, proposal support, contract management, etc.

      Reply ↓
    11. Superhero Girl*

      What about grant writing? Although the nonprofit or education-related fields I’m thinking of might also be too risky right now. And there might not be any more grants.

      Maybe this was a 2024 thought.

      Reply ↓
      1. Seamyst*

        Speaking as a Research Administrator in higher education, this is NOT necessarily a safe career right now, especially for government employees looking for something more stable.

        Reply ↓
    12. Tristan*

      There’s a lot of records management and regulatory compliance in clinical trials (and pharma in general). Best of luck!!

      Reply ↓
    13. quetzal*

      I’m in healthcare, and there is loads of records management and compliance with records management regulations jobs.

      Reply ↓
    14. WellRed*

      As someone waiting on FOIA requests that are now under a comms freeze, I’d be careful looking for jobs based on this but other records management sounds good.

      Reply ↓
    15. crookedglasses*

      You could have a fair bit of overlap with paralegal roles. I believe it varies state by state as to any kinds of certification/training. My sense is that the field tends to start out paying pretty poorly, but pay very quickly increases for proven talent. I believe many litigators might also contract with private investigators but I’m not sure exactly that looks like (or how to beat identify a specialization you’d be well suited for). Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  6. References in Word*

    I have recently switched to having to use Word to write documents (away from LaTeX). Is there a way to do references in Word using nicknames, and having a list of references that get imported into the correct order? I’ve read that this is possible with EndNote and possibly Zotero, but I’m not allowed to use those programs. My question is: is this possible to do within Word itself?

    Reply ↓
    1. snowglobe*

      I’m not familiar with LaTex but I think Word can import references using the citation manager tool via a csv file. But I haven’t done this personally yet, so I would be interested to know if anyone else has and how it worked for them.

      Reply ↓
      1. References in Word*

        I guess I worded it badly. I want to have a file where the references are organized in random order with nicknames, and I refer to them in the Word doc with nicknames, and then the references get automatically renumbered.

        So, if I have A[1], B[2] .. and I change to A[1], C[c-ref], B[b-ref], Word will renumber to be (after running some function) do: A[1],C[2],B[3]

        Reply ↓
      1. References in Word*

        I haven’t tried that. I keep getting a page not found on that specific link, though. Other ideas on how to look for that information?

        Reply ↓
        1. Hlao-roo*

          Required replaced the literal dot in microsoft.com with (dot). When I manually edited the url to convert “(dot)” back to “.” the url worked for me.

          You can also try searching for “Microsoft support Create a bibliography, citations, and references” or “Microsoft Word Create a bibliography, citations, and references.” Both searched brought me to the linked page.

          Reply ↓
    3. RC*

      I have nothing helpful to add, other than the times I use LaTeX it’s definitely at least partly for how nicely they handle my references (figures are a whole other ball of wax as I’m sure you know, but anyway). Hope you get it figured out!

      Reply ↓
  7. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

    I just wanted to thank everyone who assured me that despite the chaos hitting federal employees, passports were still being processed in a timely manner and not likely to disappear into a void. I expedited my request, and I’ve received both my book and my card! This is a huge relief.

    Also, to the employee who said that a gender-conforming photo is not a requirement, that the new orders are only about which boxes are checked: thank you in particular. I ended up deciding against retaking my photo with makeup, and I was able to get my passport with my existing photo, no hassle.

    I only wish it were this easy for everyone.

    Reply ↓
  8. CherryBlossom*

    I was here a few weeks ago to ask about passing time in a temp job while I had nothing to do. Everyone here had wonderful suggestions, but unfortunately things took a turn for the worse.

    The EA I sit next to actively blocks me from taking anything on because only she “knows how to get anything done”. I’ve tried other ways to pass the time, but they’ve also been shut down. Writing in a notebook? It’s been confiscated. Listening to music/audiobooks? Now there’s surprise checks where I must lift up my hair to show I don’t have earbuds in. Reading business/professional articles? Anything that’s not strictly work related has been added to the computer web-filters (I’m currently hiding in a bathroom to type this up on my phone).

    I’ve spoken to my manager about getting me at least one task, but since the EA is favored by the C-Suite, her hands are tied. It’s been over a month of this; I’ve been sitting in a box, doing nothing but staring at a screen and watching the seconds tick by. It’s taken a serious toll on my mental health; I struggle to get out of bed and everything feels numb.

    There’s only two weeks left of my contract, and I was hoping to power through it. But I don’t think I can. So my question is: How can I professionally say to both the temp agency and my manager, “I need to quit this job ASAP because sitting in a box actively prevented from doing anything is rotting my spirit”?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Can you ask your temp company to reassign you to a new role? “They don’t seem to need anyone in this position, what else have you got” ?

      Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      Two messages! One shared with both framing it as a cost-effective measure for you to leave early. One to the agency explaining the situation. A good agency will want to know their staff is being treated this way.

      Reply ↓
    3. Zephy*

      CONFISCATED? You’re not a child in school, they cannot take your personal property. Get your notebook back and bounce, this company sucks. Tell your temp agency about your experience with this company, definitely, and ask if they have a placement that actually has work for you to do.

      Reply ↓
    4. FashionablyEvil*

      I would just say something straightforward like, “It’s become clear that there really isn’t work to support having me here. I’d like my last day to be X. Thank you very much for the opportunity.”

      (Also, the policing of your behavior is WAAAAY over the line. If you’re pressed for details, I would share those three things.)

      Reply ↓
    5. NaoNao*

      I don’t think even the most professional version “I need a job asap” is going to change anything, sadly.

      If you really feel like you have to bail, I’d say “the job conditions have changed significantly for the worse and I’m afraid it’s not an option for me to continue. I’d like to look at ways I can find something else asap. How do I do that?” basically just move the conversation off the why and onto the “how”.

      If you mean how should you phrase it in interviews, the old chestnut of “The work turned out to be very different than advertised, and unfortunately it’s not a good match” is best for situations like these.

      Any way you can go to your manager and be *really* direct about the notebook, earphones, etc? I would be fuming at something like this and since you’re job searching, it seems like you have little to lose right now anyway–you for SURE don’t want to keep this job!
      Also, is there any way you can just…push back on the headphones checks and stuff–like if you’re already miserable, what’s the worst they can do, fire you and you go on UE?

      Reply ↓
    7. Rex Libris*

      Personally, if I’d already put up with it for over a month, I’d get through the last two weeks rather than taking a chance on damaging my relationship with the temp agency, assuming I wanted to keep working through them or ultimately use them as a reference. Can you frame it as a personal win if you make it to the end of the contract?

      Maybe develop your daydreaming skills to the furthest extent possible? Try meditation? They can’t check on what’s going on inside your head (although I think Elon is working on that.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Agreed. With only two weeks left, it’s best to stick it out. Can you act like a curious observer?

        How strange that they’re checking for earbuds!

        Their methods of assigning work are just SO interesting.

        There goes that pesky EA again, what’s she on about?

        Reply ↓
        1. CherryBlossom*

          I know that’s a popular piece of advice on AAM, to act like a detached nature-doc observer, but it’s never worked for me. I’m miserable, trying to make a game out of it only makes me feel worse.

          Reading over everyone’s responses, I think I’m still 50/50 on whether or not to leave or wait it out. Going to do a bit of reflection on it and hope I can keep my sanity in check in the meantime.

          Reply ↓
          1. M2*

            Have you asked to be reassigned? What does the temp agency say? I would tell them about your experience!

            Also, how ridiculous is that EA! There is always something to do and it would have helped them if they gave you tasks/taught you something then had you do those tasks or let you do some kind of development during the hours! Maybe they are insecure or worried you will outshine them.

            Good luck!

            Reply ↓
          2. Banana Pyjamas*

            I haven’t mastered yet either. I will say it improved with practice at my last job, but it was an adjustment. It’s really hard to stop caring when everything is so bothersome.

            Reply ↓
    8. Strive to Excel*

      Sweet lord almighty, LEAVE. This sounds like a prison warden cracking down on an unfavored inmate, not a coworker relationship. “Sit still doing nothing and saying nothing for hours” feels like it should be in the Geneva Convention somewhere.

      Reply ↓
    9. RagingADHD*

      Uh, I would have been bringing this treatment up with my agency at least weekly – “I have not been assigned any work tasks at all, I am not allowed to take notes or have a pen and paper at all, and I’m not allowed to access any form of skills training or career development on the computer. I am not sure what I am here to do, but I would really prefer an assignment where I have some means of using my time productively.”

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        I would’ve brought this up with the agency a month ago when it started, but I needed the money. I’m a little more secure now, but I’m still 50/50 on whether or not to leave or wait it out.

        Reply ↓
        1. RagingADHD*

          I don’t mean quitting – I mean bringing it up with the agency liaison so they can advocate for you. That’s part of their role. They want you to be successful at the client company, because it’s part of their client relationship. Good agencies will also have your back from toxic treatment, and want to know about such things so they can keep good temps.

          Reply ↓
    10. Ellis Bell*

      What power does the EA have here? Is it simply that she’s immune from being corrected when her behaviour is batcrap levels of inappropriate, or are we talking more about her having the ability to fire you or otherwise penalise you? Is it possible to say “These are my belongings, and I will not hand them over. I will happily set them aside for a genuine task, though.” Can you become a worm in her ear, where you ask her regularly if she has something for you to do? If all that’s genuinely a dead end, and you’re really ready to bounce I would consider speaking with the temp agency along the lines of “Unfortunately, there are simply no tasks here to be completed, and the role has become an untenable situation. Not only am I spending hours waiting for any instructions, or jobs I’m allowed to do, but I’m offending the person who wishes to simply be allowed to do this work herself. I’ve also been barred from any other way of passing the time, other than sitting and waiting. It’s becoming pointedly unpleasant, and I don’t think either Company or Agency are benefitting from offending a company employee. Either way, on my end, I’m not willing to continue waiting hours of my day for work to emerge, so I’m asking for a reassignment.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Tio*

        This is kind of what I was thinking. She certainly can’t take your property without escalating it above her – and I have a had time thinking even the most beloved EA would get the approval to confiscate personal items rather than the person being told to just put it away.

        The annoying repetition of requests for work might be the best plan. Sometimes it just results in a person pushing you out – but hey, that was one of the options anyway, so why not annoy her to death?

        Reply ↓
    11. Quinalla*

      I would power through it, but I would also go to your manager every day and ask for assignments and I’d follow it up in writing. “Hey manager, I don’t have any assignments today, what should I be working on?” and follow up “We talked this morning and there are no assignments to give me today.”

      And go ahead and talk to the temp agency about how there is no work for you so can they move you to a different job? They probably won’t, but I’d follow up with them every day too.

      At least these emails/calls/visits to boss will give you something to do for a bit of your time. Can you also ask the EA for work every day, maybe twice a day, and CC your manager on any emails there too or instead of talking to them directly?

      What a crappy situation!! I’d honestly be looking for ANYTHING to do including topping off printer paper, doing dishes in the shared kitchen, etc. just out of sheer boredom :(

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        I did start touching base with my manager a month ago, until she sat me down and said “Listen, I know it’s quiet, but I’ll let you know if I have anything for you. Until then, you’re on standby. Don’t worry, I’ll find something for you!” (She never did).

        I would’ve brought this up with the agency a month ago when it started, but I needed the money. I’m a little more secure now, but I’m still 50/50 on whether or not to leave or wait it out. But I appreciate the commiseration all the same!

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          I think you should make today your last day there, but if you stick it out, ask the manager every day, regardless l. It’s the old make it their problem advice often given here.

          Reply ↓
        2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

          Is this company a front for a cartel or something? What kind of legitimate company wants to pay a temp to sit in a chair and visibly do nothing? I would have gotten up and walked out the first time someone asked me to lift my hair and show I wasn’t wearing earbuds, so you clearly have a lot more endurance than I do. Maybe just call your temp service and tell them they have no work for you, and you’d like a new assignment.

          Reply ↓
          1. CherryBlossom*

            It’s actually not uncommon, from my years as a temp-admin, to have a lot of downtime. The difference is, other places have *something* for me to do, and also tend to be fine with me pulling out my phone/a book/podcast as long as I keep an eye out for tasks.

            This particular gig has just been very draconian with the *appearance* of working hard and professionalism. As to why I’m here after the project I was brought on for wrapped up a month ago…who’s to say?

            Reply ↓
        3. Ellis Bell*

          I think it’s perfectly reasonable to go back to her, because she said she’d find something for you. An entire month has passed! They probably thought you found something to do. “I still have nothing to do and wondered how you got on with finding a project or responsibility for me? (It’s really important to go quiet here and wait for a response like you’re totally sure she will have something by now)” Then, if she still has nothing: “I can stay on standby if you need me to, but I need to be allowed to pass the time with my own training and note taking etc, which I’m currently being prevented from doing.”

          Reply ↓
    12. office jail*

      If you’re still open to bandaid solutions, perhaps you can download articles in advance or just straight up copy and email them to yourself so you don’t have to get around the filters. I know someone whose boss sat right behind her and could see her screen, so she used to entertain herself by writing fanfic in a little Gmail window.

      Reply ↓
    14. Woof*

      Honestly? I would resume podcast listening and when someone asked to *lift my hair* I’d ignore it and ask them if they had a task for me. I would straight up tell the EA that I was told to be on standby and every time she checked on me like a naughty child I’d say oh good did you find me a task? Petty tyrants are the worst.

      Reply ↓
    15. Zona the Great*

      Firstly, you’ll hold onto your objects and refuse to let them be pulled away and you most certainly do not show her your body parts on command. What a nut job she is.

      Reply ↓
    16. But Of Course*

      Assuming you want to keep working with the agency, talk to them. Explain what’s happening – keep it factual, not aggrieved or frustrated – and tell them that you’d like to be moved to a different contract and when can that happen? Be clear that it is not tenable for you to finish the assignment. If the employer really wants someone there, they can assign another temp.

      Once you’ve got a plan to move to a new contract, the agency will actually handle your resignation.

      If you don’t want to keep working for the agency, you can resign through them. They are your employer and it’s their problem to sort it out of the company still wants a contractor to do nothing. They would all need to figure it out if you got full time work in the middle of a contract; this is the same issue.

      And do explain to your agency what’s happening. They shouldn’t want to send people to assignments like this. Enforced inactivity is grueling torture (literally) for quite likely absolutely everyone on the planet.

      Reply ↓
  9. Wellie*

    I would love to get the commentariat’s thought on what questions to ask when the hiring manager is known to be kind of an underhanded snake.

    In 2023, I had a job that I liked, and I was laid off due to loss of a contract. I am now a probationary federal worker trying desperately to find a new job. I applied at my old company for a different role than my previous. I got an interview request, and the hiring manager (not the person I will be interviewing with) is someone who I worked with on a project and who was kind of underhanded. I don’t want to get into all the details–it would make a really long post. I was on loan to that project at the time due to lack of work in my own area (see: loss of contract), and I was hugely relieved that I did not have to work long term for that person. Let’s call her Hortense.

    When I saw Hortense’s name as the hiring manager, first I was surprised that she would agree to interview me. We didn’t really end the project on good terms. Even if she didn’t recognize my name, the project is in my resume. There is no way she can fail to recognize it. Second, my first instinct was to cancel the interview and withdraw my candidacy. My feelings about not wanting to work under someone like her are that strong.

    After further reflection, I want to go forward with the interview, but I want to ask some questions to confirm that Hortense really is the hiring manager and that the position is in her reporting chain. Just a note–Hortense was pretty high in the management chain. The people reporting to her are managers of managers, not individual contributors. Unless things have changed a lot, I would not be reporting directly to Hortense. I think I can ask pretty directly and without mentioning my distaste for her what the reporting chain is. I am interested in other people’s take on how directly I can ask those questions.

    If things progress to an offer, and there would be other interviews before that happens, I think I would want to talk to other individual contributors in her reporting chain to see if her underhanded treatment of me is typical. I would do some of this directly and some of this through back channels. It would not be weird at all if I were to ask if there were other individual contributors who I could talk to before making a decision (trust me that this is normal). The people I would be referred to would be people who love working there and will only say good things, so I want to ask them to recommend names of people who hate working there and have beef with Hortense. I do not want to ask this directly or in that way. I was thinking of wording along the lines of “I’m really interested in knowing how management resolves conflicts. Is there anyone you can recommend to me who had complaints with how things go in the group who might be interested in telling me how they felt about the resolution?” What are some thoughts on that approach?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      I don’t really think the questions about chain of command need to be that complicated: “Who does this position report to?” “What kind of interactions are there with other departments/senior leadership?” “What can you tell me about the day-to-day?”

      As for asking to speak to other people, I think going out of your way to ask for folks who’ve had problems with the organization is going to look weird. Just try and talk to the people you will actually be working with, ask them how conflicts are handled, and if all you get is a bunch of empty rah-rah reassurances, take that into account when making your decision.

      Honestly, though, if Hortense’s mere presence is making you feel like you need to put this much effort into figuring out how much of a problem she’s going to be for you, I’d really think long and hard about whether this opportunity is worth pursuing. The fact she’s there and apparently thriving sounds like maybe it doesn’t speak well to senior leadership’s judgment.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hyaline*

      I think you can be pretty open about the reporting chain question–and everyone knows you worked there so would know some of the key players. I might start with “Can you tell me more about the management structure for this position?” and if that remains unclear about how far down the line you’d be from Hortense–“Oh, I saw that the hiring manager for this position is Hortense Brickleberry. I’m curious if I would be a direct report to her?”

      I don’t think you can directly ask “anyone hate working here who I could talk to?” and I don’t think there is an indirect way to say “give me some references who won’t give you glowing reviews” that doesn’t sound kind of odd, but maybe you could use your own contacts to ask around. At the same time, I wouldn’t want my first impression with new colleagues to have been “that gal who seemed to want to dig dirt on Hortense,” so I’d proceed cautiously and judiciously there.

      If Hortense is potentially this big of an issue for you, you need to hash out of if that’s a deal breaker for you or not. I think you have to just accept, face value, she is a manager in this situation, she will be around to some degree, and the degree to which you will interact with her is likely to change over time, too. She could stay in the job forever or she could leave. You could get promoted or there could be a reorg and and you end up reporting directly to her even if you don’t now. I don’t want to overstep, but it kinda sounds like you want someone to tell you in an interview or reference chat how big of a problem she is and how awful working under can be, so that the decision is made for you, and I highly doubt you’re going to get that.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wellie*

        “it kinda sounds like you want someone to tell you in an interview or reference chat how big of a problem she is and how awful working under can be, so that the decision is made for you”

        Actually, I’m looking for people who had positive experiences with her during conflict. I like to give people benefit of doubt. Maybe my experience with her was a one off, and she is not typically like that.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

          Why would you give the benefit of the doubt to someone you already know from personal experience to be awful? It doesn’t make sense.

          Reply ↓
    3. JSPA*

      I… kind of doubt you can productively ask this.

      The only thing I can come up with (and I can’t recommend it) would be, “when I worked briefly with Hortense, I had the impression she was trying out a few types of motivation, communication and conflict resolution tools. I’d be curious what she’s ended up using, day-to-day.” It may help to remember that one person’s “underhanded” can be another person’s “sensitively non-confrontational.”

      Getting things to line up without having to make an explicit ask is a real goal for some managers, and as irked as it would make me feel (mom issues, and all that) I’m forced to admit that some people feel extra understood or seen, when a boss knows them well enough to manage by subtle manipulation.

      Reply ↓
  10. TW: pregnancy loss*

    This past fall, I announced to my supervisor and coworkers that I was pregnant. One of my coworkers told me he and his wife were expecting, too; their due date was a few weeks after mine.

    A few weeks later, at my 18 week appointment, I found out the pregnancy was no longer viable. It was obviously a very hard time, and I still don’t like to talk/think about it or else I’ll risk tearing up.

    But, now we’re getting closer to my coworker’s due date – as well as what would have been my own. My department is planning a lunch/gift for him. The lunch is scheduled two days before what would’ve been my due date. Fortunately, I don’t think we’re going to do all the silly baby shower games since he’s not into that, but the conversation is likely to be centered on babies, preparing for babies, how his wife’s pregnancy is going, and things like that.

    I want to be happy for him, but it’s tinged with such sadness for me. I’d really like to consider bowing out of lunch if I could but we’re such a small, close-knit department – we always celebrate things like birthdays, weddings and births together and there is no semi-reasonable excuse I can come up with for missing it (not remote that day, no PTO currently scheduled, no conflicting meetings, etc.). If I miss it, it’d be clear why.

    I don’t want to go and have to fight back tears the whole time, but I also don’t want to not go and have my absence color the event (and have my coworker feel bad for celebrating his upcoming good news). Are there any other options I’m not thinking of? Ways to go socialize with my team without needing to participate in gushing over baby stuff?

    Reply ↓
    1. cloud*

      If you’re able to schedule PTO for that day, I would do it. If you don’t have a full day of PTO to use, you can say you have an appointment and need to leave early or work remote that day. No one needs to know the details. It’s not unreasonable to bow out of participating when you know it’s going to be emotionally difficult for you. I’m sorry for your loss.

      Reply ↓
    2. Someone Online*

      I’m so sorry – that is tough. I don’t think any reasonable person will judge you for missing the event. If possible, I think a nice card saying you’re happy for them and wish them the best is a good compromise.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ally McBeal*

        Agree. No one will fault you for quietly skipping it. I might mention to your coworker (if you can bear it) that your loss is still painful and while you would normally be happy to celebrate him, it’s just not possible this time. And I do like the idea of taking the day off, or even a half-day, so you’re not just sitting at your desk doing other stuff while well-meaning coworkers ask why you’re not in the conference room for the party.

        Personal anecdote: I have a relative whose best friend learned around 15 weeks that her baby (third pregnancy) likely would not survive but she and her husband chose to bring the pregnancy to term anyway. My relative learned she was pregnant (with her third) right as this was happening, and she was up-front with her BFF about “I will tell you as much or as little about my pregnancy as you want to hear, but I also completely understand if you need a break from our friendship.” She was very careful about what updates she shared & how frequently. Her friend did indeed lose her baby (she gave birth on schedule and he lived for a little under a day) but their friendship survived and her friend has since had healthy twins and is happily being driven crazy by all four children.

        Reply ↓
    4. StarryStarryNight*

      You may well be underestimating your coworker. Write them an email saying you wish them and their new family all the best, but that it would currently be to painful for you to attend because of what happened to you. This is completely understandable and you’re even making an effort to congratulate him despite how you are feeling.

      And then I‘d ask if maybe you can work from home that day so you don’t end up sitting and working on your own as the rest of the team is celebrating together.

      Reply ↓
      1. londonedit*

        Might not even need to mention that it would be painful – I’d probably either take the day off or arrange to WFH, and then send a short email saying congratulations and best wishes for the birth, wish you could come to the lunch but you’re on holiday that day, hope it all goes well, etc.

        Reply ↓
    5. Nilsson Schmilsson*

      I am so sorry for your loss. And it’s okay if you skip it, and it’s okay if everyone knows why. They will understand. I promise. Hoping you can call in sick or take PTO.

      Reply ↓
    6. Pyanfar*

      First, my condolences on your loss. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Could you attend at the beginning, congratulate your co-worker in person, and explain you had a meeting/appointment scheduled that you can’t miss and have to duck out?

      Reply ↓
    7. FashionablyEvil*

      Oh my goodness, please do not force yourself to go. I’m sure your colleagues would understand. Is there a trusted colleague who could quietly explain for you?

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      Reply ↓
    8. CherryBlossom*

      I am so sorry for your loss.

      If your team is generally close-knit and friendly with each other, I think they’d be understanding about you bowing out of the lunch. It’s okay if people know why you’re missing it; In this circumstance, it’s perfectly fine to look after your own well-being, even if your absence might make things a little awkward for your coworker.

      Socializing might be a little trickier, but smiles and nods can go a long way when you don’t want to dive too deeply into baby talks. Maybe having a few topics in your back pocket to pivot to if you really want/need to redirect a conversation.

      Reply ↓
    9. Falling Diphthong*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      First, it seems like if you miss the event it will be clear why…. and your team would be compassionate and understanding about that? That this is a one-off, with the timing making it very understandable why you can’t. That people would view it as both gentler on yourself, and allowing the party to just celebrate your coworker.

      If you feel you need to put in an appearance, I would build in as much structure as possible. So you can follow the steps in the game plan, rather than constantly try to improvise. This might look like asking a friend for support, and a diversion into “So what’s the best new anime?” if you need a non-baby conversational topic as a lifeline. It might look like mapping out for yourself “15 minutes on chatter, 30 on cake, and after another 15 on presents I can excuse myself.”

      Reply ↓
    10. Elsewise*

      Honestly, I’m childfree, but if I was one of your coworkers, I wouldn’t expect you to be there. I’ve had family go through pregnancy loss and while I can never really understand how hard it is, I can’t imagine you’d want to celebrate.

      If you can stomach it, I’d privately congratulate the dad-to-be and let him know that you won’t be there but that you’re happy for him. Assuming he and your coworkers are fairly reasonable, I don’t think anyone will object.

      Reply ↓
    11. JMR*

      I’m so sorry (hugs). I don’t think you need to look for an excuse to bow out of the lunch, or a way to try and make it work. Anyone with half a heart and two-thirds of a brain will understand why it would be difficult for you to be there. No one will think that you’re not happy for your supervisor just because you are also sad for yourself. Don’t force yourself to do this! First, that’s just putting yourself through unnecessary pain. Second, there’s a real risk that you will feel awful and it will show, and that will make it more awkward for your co-workers than if you bow out. Sit this one out, and let that be a kindness to yourself. I promise you, everyone will understand.

      Reply ↓
    12. Alice*

      I’m sorry for your loss.
      I don’t know if you have told your coworkers about this miscarriage? I get that you don’t want to talk about it but I think that it would be a good idea to tell the people who heard about the pregnancy. You can ask your supervisor to share the news, and to tell people that you don’t want to talk about it at work.
      Re the lunch — I think you should get a card for your co-worker and give it to him in advance. You said yourself, you are happy for him! So write that in the card, and then give yourself permission to skip the lunch. In a close-knit team, no one would want you to make yourself miserable by powering through it.

      Reply ↓
    13. spcepickle*

      My heart is with you – Take the day off, at the very least skip lunch. A quiet word in your bosses ear is all this should take. I am so happy for coworker but I just can’t be at his baby lunch. I will be – working from home, taking a sick day, crying in my car – whatever feels right to you.
      If and only if you have it in you drop a card off with him, you might even include a gift card to buy diapers or something. You can leave it on his desk when you know he is out if that feels better.
      This is a moment to give yourself so much grace and anyone who has half a heart will understand why you are not at the lunch.

      Reply ↓
    14. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I am so sorry for your loss. I know that pregnancy loss is stigmatized – if you were at 18 weeks, had you told your coworkers? (My wife’s was earlier, and she hadn’t.) If they’re aware of the situation, and they’re anything resembling decent humans, they’ll understand why you’d want to skip the celebration. If you’re able to do so, you could also privately reach out to the guest of honor and explain the situation.

      You’re also 100% justified in taking the day of the celebration off as a mental health day. If ever there was a clear case for it, this is it.

      Reply ↓
    15. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. I would take the whole day off. Find something fun and diverting to do. Maybe write up a card at home for your coworker and slip it onto his desk before you leave the previous day with an, “I’m off tomorrow, but wanted to give you this before I left. Have a good night!”

      Reply ↓
    16. Zephy*

      First, I am very sorry for your loss.

      It sounds like your department is aware of the loss as well, so I don’t think anyone’s going to look askance at you if you stop by for cake and then excuse yourself – you have an EXTREMELY good reason to not want to stick around at this party and it would be incredibly insensitive of your office to insist you stay.

      Reply ↓
    17. Accidental Manager*

      Do you need to make an excuse that isn’t the truth? Would you be comfortable in saying I’m sorry, but this is difficult for me, I’m sure you understand. I don’t want to take anything away from Coworker’s celebration and possibly have people trying to temper the mood for me. Then, if you can, contribute to the group gift, sign the card, all the things everyone else is doing, except being there for the event. Remember, it is okay to take care of you.

      Reply ↓
    18. Strive to Excel*

      I’m so sorry.

      To me this is a good use of the social cold; you will wake up the day of finding you have contracted a 24-hour bug (assuming that you have the PTO and nothing that day that will suffer from your lack of presence). Especially if you can WFH instead of just taking PTO. You even have a built-in excuse of not wanting to make your coworker’s wife sick, so of course you’re going to stay away from people if you think you’re contagious.

      Reply ↓
    19. Aggretsuko*

      Call in sick that day, seriously.

      It’ll be less of an issue if you’re not there than if you are obviously there and sad.

      Reply ↓
    20. Alex*

      I don’t think any halfway decent human would fault you for skipping. I’m so sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself.

      Reply ↓
    21. The teapots are on fire*

      Miss the event and volunteer to cover the phones or something. Send a nice card. Your coworker will understand. My heart goes out to you.

      Reply ↓
    22. SoloKid*

      Hi, I’m very sorry to hear about your loss, and having to deal with social circumstances on top of that.

      I have never been in your situation, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But I say it is 100% OK and reasonable to bow out. I have bowed out of events that would be hard for me on certain holidays – preserving your wits IS a “semi-reasonable excuse”, and please trust your close knit coworkers to understand.

      Honestly, your coworkers will “feel bad” whether you attend or not – lean into that as a good thing and see it as having people in your life that care about you. You will be thought of whether you are there or not.

      I have heard from other people in your situation that they honestly feel different hour to hour (you are human, this makes sense). If the lunch is on site, maybe you’ll feel up to stepping in for a few minutes to say congratulations and then bowing out early. Be gentle with yourself and trust that others won’t judge you.

      Reply ↓
      1. TW: pregnancy loss*

        That hour to hour part is so true, which is part of what complicates it! If I can muster it, the lunch would be so fun! My team so rarely is all in person on the same day, so I’d hate to miss the day by being remote or taking time off. (Plus, I’d like to reserve any schedule changes for the day of my due date.) I’m just anticipating that with the topic of conversation, the lunch is not going to be my hour.

        Reply ↓
        1. SoloKid*

          It sounds like it’s important to be surrounded by those close to you, so I think talking to your group about your anxieties upfront could help.

          (and to be completely honest, admitting I’ve internalized society’s ‘be quiet around pregnancy loss’, they may be relieved that you bring it up first).

          Does a script like this help?

          “I want to join in celebrating [coworker], but you know it’s a hard situation for me as well. Where are you planning to celebrate? I’d like to come to spend as much time as I can but I know you all understand if I need to bow out early.”

          Reply ↓
    23. HonorBox*

      You’re a close-knit team. People will understand. Talk to your coworker. Talk to your boss. Let them know that you don’t want your obvious and understandable feelings to overshadow an awesome celebration. If you need to take a day of PTO, do so.

      Reply ↓
    24. Ginger Cat Lady*

      The truth is a VERY reasonable reason for why you can’t be there. I like the idea of getting a card (and contribute to the gift if you can) and write to him expressing your support and explaining that it’s too hard for you to be there. I really believe people will understand.

      Reply ↓
    25. SicktomyStomach*

      I don’t think anyone would think less of you if you avoided that day. You could speak with your co-worker privately and tell him you only have good wishes for him, but that emotionally, this is just too much for you right now.

      I went through this too, years ago and I remember how hard it was. I wish you peace.

      Reply ↓
    26. Hyaline*

      I agree with bowing out, either overtly if you’re up for it or just quietly arranging PTO or WFH or a dentist appointment (have you been putting that off? great excuse to get that scheduled), and any reasonable person will understand. I think it would be kind, if you’re so inclined, to individually give him a card or small gift to acknowledge the occasion and celebrate with him without it being a group thing–especially if you would prefer to do so not face to face, a card can just be left on his desk.

      Reply ↓
    27. allathian*

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      Make your excuses to him in private and skip the event, if your coworkers are as decent as you say, they’ll understand. Your absence will let your coworkers celebrate without feeling sad about your loss, your presence would only remind them of that.

      Reply ↓
    28. JSPA*

      doctor’s appointment, off-site meeting, personal PTO, minor family or pet emergency, broken appliance or HVAC problem…

      Sign the card, don’t sweat being there.

      Reply ↓
    29. Always Tired*

      Sounds like you will have a violent stomach bug the night before, probably something you ate. You will send a late night/early morning email indicating you have been up ill all night and won’t be able to make it in, but send your best wishes to the father-to-be and are so sorry to miss the lunch.

      Then make sure you spend the day not brooding, but doing happy things. Go for a nature walk or something. If people call, let it ring out and apologize the next work day for missing their calls while you were sleeping.

      I know it’s lying, but sometimes you need a mental health day, but no one properly respects that so you explain it as a physical health day.

      Reply ↓
    30. Too Many Years in K12 Ed*

      You do not need to go. I didn’t go to my own sister’s baby shower after a pregnancy loss. Your coworker will understand. You could always take PTO and just send him a card with well wishes.

      Reply ↓
    31. OrdinaryJoe*

      Everyone will understand, I promise! It’s only been a couple of months and even my normally dense group of co-workers (not bad, just kind of self-centered) would understand. If someone mentioned it, there’s enough people who would clue that person in. I think a nice Congrats note and a gift is all that’s need.

      Reply ↓
  11. Sloanicota*

    Ok, I started a new role and I’m trying to do Inbox Zero. I have a new inbox so it should be relatively easy. I like the idea that my inbox is my task list. I have been guilty of missing emails in past roles and often had huge overflowing inboxes with everything – I liked this system because I KNEW nothing was deleted so if it existed, I had it. However, too many listserv type emails cluttered my inbox and made it harder to see new important emails – thus, Inbox Zero. The problem is, I now feel like I am wasting a lot of time scrutinizing low-value emails so that I can delete them, or creating elaborate folder systems because they don’t fit in existing folders. Am I doing this wrong? Do you just expect to waste a lot more time managing emails as an Inbox Zero person?

    Reply ↓
    1. StressedButOkay*

      Unsubscribe from ANYTHING that you can that you don’t need. I can’t tell you how many things I’ve been subscribed to that are just pure junk and they quickly clutter. If you use Outlook, they have a Focus inbox but I don’t love it as it isn’t 100% and can filter out emails I need to see.

      I also use conversation view to make everything stay together, making it look less insane. Inbox Zero is always my goal, even if I never get there.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah previously I liked conversation view, but now it causes emails that had been filed to keep popping back up with every “thanks!” and now needing to be re-shuffled BACK to the previous folder (this is in gsuite, perhaps it works better in outlook?) so I feel like I’m spending a lot more time in each conversation.

        Reply ↓
        1. MJ*

          I recently came across multiple inboxes in Gmail and it’s been a game changer for me. My inbox typically has 20-25 ‘action’ emails in it and the other sections show things I’m waiting on, longer term action items and reference / procedure for things I don’t handle frequently and need to lookup. The brilliant thing is the sections can be setup to whatever works for you.

          Here’s the instructions I followed for putting it in place:
          https://ashleyjanssen.com/get-your-gmail-inbox-under-control-using-multiple-inboxes-and-stars/

          Reply ↓
        2. Always Tired*

          Does google have any automation like the outlook rules? I have a rule that all scans automatically go into a scan folder, all the emails from the mailing lists I want to be on go to a mailing list folder (and at the end of the day I mark all of them read because I either get to them or don’t) and a folder for notifications from certain systems that I don’t need but can’t get rid of, so they go into their folder and get immediately marked as read.

          Reply ↓
        3. Great Frogs of Literature*

          Gsuite uses labels — messages pop back into your inbox, but they haven’t become un-labeled, so you can just archive them and they will stay in the label. (If you have keyboard commands turned on, ‘y’ is archive.)

          I also don’t file EVERYTHING — I just archive stuff, and if I need it later, I search for it. (from:Tom@company subject:”meeting agenda” before:2024-10-09)

          So, if someone emails you asking for an invoice, you reply with the invoice, label it with the client name and the invoice label, and remove it from inbox. You can now find it from either the client name label or the invoice label. When they reply saying thanks, you just archive it, and it’s still in both labels.

          Does that clear anything up?

          Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Turn off all the email notifications from dashboards, project/task trackers, etc. If you always have the Jira tab open, you don’t need an email every time the status of one of your tasks changes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Haha I did have to do this IMMEDIATELY. Being new to the job I was auto-subscribed to all sorts of team tools that each wanted to send me 1000 emails per day.

        Reply ↓
    3. RagingADHD*

      Only review your box at set times. Anything that takes less than 2 minutes to act on / understand, go ahead and do the thing or delete the email. If it is likely to take more than 2 minutes to complete, put it in a folder.

      Other than specific projects, you only need 3 other folders: Action (for random things that need to be done that take longer than 2 minutes), Reading/Review (for random things you need to digest or planning for future projects), and Reference (for random things you need to keep as information).

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        See, I’m trying to keep the “action” ones in my inbox, so the ones I need to address are always front and center – but I do see how that would prevent me from ever actually getting to zero assuming there are always ongoing tasks. It’s not like you’re ever really “done” with work …

        Reply ↓
        1. Three from the circle*

          I’m a huge fan of flagging items in Outlook so they show up on my to do list. That way my inbox is stuff I need to think about/do today, and anything I need to take care of soon is parked in the to do list.

          Reply ↓
        2. RagingADHD*

          Yeah, using your box as your to-do list and having inbox zero are incompatable, unless your job is such that nothing you need to read or do takes more than a couple of minutes.

          Reply ↓
        3. Bunny Watson*

          This is largely what I do. Action ones stay in the inbox. If I will get to it eventually but not soon, I go ahead and file it but put the task on my to-do list so as to not forget (I hate flagging and outlook task lists so I keep a trello to-do list). I respond, file, or delete everything else to keep my inbox focused. It’s almost never at zero, but also not much above that. I have turned off notifications wherever I can, and I use a separate email for listservs and other work-type things, but not my actual work so I only need to check that once a day or every few days which also helps.

          Reply ↓
    4. Dr. Doll*

      You might like the STACK method. www dot stackmethod dot com. There are a few, targeted folders.

      I’ve also had luck with folders using the Eisenhower quadrant. Is this email: Urgent/Important, Non-Urgent/Important, Urgent/NOT important, Not urgent/Not important. Plus one folder for “reference material.”

      Reply ↓
    5. Beth**

      Can you use the Outlook “Archive” function for emails that you want to file but don’t want to think about where to file them?

      Reply ↓
    6. Strive to Excel*

      Here’s how I handle my unofficial Inbox Zero – I don’t use a specific existing philosophy, it’s just how I do it.

      1. Set up some basic email rules. Which ones are most useful to you are going to vary widely. My workplace has sprawling long email chains so I don’t usually categorize by person, but I have emails auto-generated by my scanner and any emails from our online ticketing system automatically shunted into their own folders. Same with any application alerts or things from our IT problems.

      2. Triage the main inbox. I do a 3-second skim of any email that comes in and categorize it as Deliverable, Reference, or Not My Problem.
      * Deliverable – I have to answer or provide something.
      * Reference – I don’t have to answer it but I may need the information later.
      * Not My Problem – “Congratulations” email chains, newsletters from organizations, auto-replies to things – generally, anything that doesn’t fall in Deliverable or Reference.

      Not My Problem gets marked as Read. Reference gets marked as read but also flagged; I just use Outlook’s Follow Up flags but there’s other ways to do it. Deliverables get a secondary triage of “is this an emergency where I need to drop what I’m doing?” If it’s not, I’ll flag them and add a note to my to-do list.

      3. Don’t get too granular at first. Having a super-intricate organization system starts to break down if you’re doing it manually – or you have something low-value that ‘doesn’t fit’, as you’ve described. Consider instead of having categories for everything, having a couple well-defined useful categories and one big ‘Other’ category. IE – if you’re in an AP position, you might have a separate folder for your 5 biggest vendors, but it might not make sense to have a folder for every single vendor including the one you only order from once a year to buy Halloween candy. And make heavy use of automation in your system. Rule of thumb – you shouldn’t be moving more than 20% of emails manually. If you’re finding you’re spending a lot of time moving stuff, it’s a good sign that your rules aren’t updated or your system is too granular.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        I think I’m trying to delete “Not My Problem” emails immediately, but otherwise this does sound kind of similar to what I’m going for … maybe I got too excited with the subfolders.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ashley*

        To follow-up on three I also did a folder for things like marketing or newsletters that I might find useful but not dealing with now. Then when I had slow periods or needed a mental break I could go in there and catch up.
        Also don’t forget you can snooze something’s so you can deal with it later. Sometimes I snooze stuff for after lunch when I can focus on digesting the info, and frees me to focus on what I need to do that is urgent.

        Reply ↓
    7. Names are Hard*

      I just create a “misc” folder. Anything that doesn’t seem like it fits anywhere else, goes there. No reason to agonize on where the emails sit in a folder. That’s what the search bar is for.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        I guess I’m not positive how an overflowing inbox versus an overflowing “misc” folder is an efficiency win, but I will contemplate this.

        Reply ↓
        1. Malarkey01*

          The goal of my misc folder is so I can keep a copy of things I don’t think I’ll ever need but just may. I should never have to go into my Misc folder but every once in awhile need to search for something and it pops in that folder. It’s really for “no action needed, don’t think I’ll ever look at it” fast filing.

          Reply ↓
        2. Reba*

          For myself I’ve found that I tend to search more than browsing through folders. So I stopped worrying about sorting into well-pruned folders, and just archive everything (that doesn’t get deleted), and I search when I need them. In Outlook, the saved searches thing is pretty useful, I don’t know how Gmail handles that — I know Gmail keeps a history of your searches but not sure how you would utilize them best.

          Reply ↓
    8. Melody Powers*

      I only just started a role in an organization big enough for me to have a dedicated email address a few months ago but I’ve been successful with my own Inbox Zero approach so far. Anything that I still need to do something with stays in the inbox until I’ve dealt with it. I have a few important folders for the things I’m most likely to need to find quickly in the future and then anything else that I might possibly want to have a record of in the future goes in the general Archive folder for me to do a search if I need to. I don’t worry too much about organizing the archive. If I find myself searching for something a few times, that’s when it’s time to think about adding a new folder. Until then, everything I don’t need to do anything with is put away and I’m not worried about being too granular.

      Reply ↓
    9. Quinalla*

      It sounds like what you want to get out of it is to not miss emails. I’d say you are being too granular with your folders. Have a big MISC or REFERENCE folder for a lot of stuff that is difficult to categorize and you might need later, but there is no action you need to take.

      I’d also recommend NOT using your inbox as your action list, make a separate folder for that so you can easily see all your sorted next actions. Right now you are trying to sort and pick next actions in the same place, it’s going to muddle things. Pick a few times a day where you will sort your inbox, otherwise work off those next actions.

      Personally I do NOT use emails as action reminders, I have a separate list, but I may keep emails in a folder to find easily that I need to reply to as next actions.

      Also, anything you can do quickly, just do it. Don’t bother sorting first. Do it and archive.

      Reply ↓
    10. Storm in a teacup*

      I started a new role a year ago and tried for this. I’ve since accepted that I’ll never be an inbox zero person and I’m ok with that now. However I am instead an ‘unread messages zero’ person, which feels a lot easier as not needing to file everything and once every few months I’ll go through inbox and file / delete as I see fit

      Reply ↓
    11. Ginger Baker*

      I use a single Processed folder for basically anything that is “file but no action needed” as well as any emails that I did the action on and are now complete. Then you can just search.

      Reply ↓
  12. anon for this*

    CW: infertility

    This is a work question, not a medical question, although it relates to a medical topic. What language have you used (or would you use) to explain last-minute schedule changes and absences at work? I am at the beginning stages of fertility treatments. Such appointments must be timed to coincide with specific days of the menstrual cycle, and while I can roughly estimate when they will be, I cannot know for certain until the day before or the day of. I am fortunate to have a job with lots of flexibility, but of course that flexibility not infinite. For folks who have gone through similar things, how have you communicated to your boss and/or colleagues about it? It’s pretty normal in my office to flex our time when we’re out for medical appointments, but it’s less normal to be out unexpectedly for medical appointments, especially considering how far in advance most medical providers schedule routine appointments these days. My concern is that generic “I had a doctor’s appointment” language doesn’t explain the frequency and suddenness of my absences. My colleagues are a respectful bunch and unlikely to pry for information, but I also don’t want to worry them about my health, or annoy them with my unreliability over the next several months.

    Reply ↓
    1. anIVFmom*

      I’ve been through years of IVF and can relate. As much as possible, I stayed quiet about it. I never had supportive bosses during my treatment, so if I HAD to mention it, I would say something around having a minor medical issue that requires a few months of treatments and can have some last minute or frequent appointments/blood draws, emphasis on the ‘nothing to worry about’. They can put the pieces together if they want to after you’re pregnant. You can also use dental work or something similar as your reason. I wouldn’t recommend being too candid, fertility treatment can take much longer than you expect (although I hope it doesnt!) I did my appointments as early as possible in the mornings; my clinic took appointments as early as 7am.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jules the First*

      Having navigated this twice, I used “I’m working with my doctors to do some testing to get to the bottom of a minor issue which shouldn’t affect my performance but will mean that I have a string of doctor’s appointments that are likely to be short notice and I won’t have control over the timing. I’m mentioning it because I don’t want you to worry!”

      And everything crossed for you over here that you get your little science baby – and also suggesting that if your clinic offers counselling as part of your package, don’t be shy about taking them up on it. This process might unpack some unexpected feelings and experiences and having someone to talk to outside your friends and family can really help.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hyaline*

        I think this is perfect if you’re not up for explaining the details of the situation–working with doctors, having testing done that has some timing quirks, so will sometimes be short notice, will alert you as soon as I know I’ll be away, I don’t anticipate any issues with completing work or covering my tasks.

        If you have a rough timeframe, I would share that, too (“over the next few months” “for the next six months” etc).

        Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      I had an employee who was in the same situation as you several years ago. She came to me and shared what was going on and how those appointments would be difficult to know about too far in advance…sometimes it would be the morning of the appointment that she’d know she needed to go. I told her that I’d just ask that she let me know as soon as possible if she wasn’t going to be in, and she did.

      Of course a lot of this depends on how much you are comfortable sharing with your boss.

      Reply ↓
    4. OP*

      Thank you to everyone offering their advice and support. I appreciate the sample language. Hearing from those who have gone through it is especially helpful. Your compassion means a lot, and I extend the same to anyone in similar situations. That’s why I love the AAM community!

      Reply ↓
    5. TerrorCotta*

      Could you word it as if the medical provider is the one directing the weird schedule (I mean, technically true!)?

      “I have a series of medical appointments coming up over the next few months that are apparently scheduled on pretty short notice. I get a general window when they might be calling me in, but I guess they can only confirm day before (or even day of).

      It’s nothing to concern anyone, or anything dire! Just a heads up I might have to step out with shorter notice than usual, I’ll keep everyone updated on my availability as soon as I know.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Duicounselor*

        You received really great advice, but I will say something that probably won’t happen but could. Medical appointments with very short notice are very common in the field. I used to work in. It was a substance abuse program where clients would be called in on a random basis to come in and pee in a jar. If there’s any possibility, your manager or management might think this was your situation. It might be better to tell the truth

        Reply ↓
  13. theramblingpresenter*

    I sometimes give presentations to groups at work and my boss has started recording these. Now she wants to start a public YouTube channel and publish the recordings. I am very uncomfortable with having unedited recordings of myself on YouTube, but I don’t feel like I can refuse my boss’ requests for permission to film and I’m not sure how to express how uncomfortable I am with her publishing the recordings. Any advice? :(

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      How big is your company? They might already have consent rules in place. All you might have to do is not sign a form.

      Reply ↓
    2. StarryStarryNight*

      „It was my understanding that these would be used only internally and was happy to do them under these conditions. I am not comfortable having these made available to the public, though.“ That‘s a completely legitimate thing to say, in fact, your company should have checked with you before making plans for this YouTube channel.

      Reply ↓
    3. NaoNao*

      Could you ask her to blur your face/body or otherwise disguise your persona (like with a voice changer?) or publish a transcript with a “cartoon” rendering of the presentation via AI tools or other similar transformation tools? You might have some luck if you offer to transform the videos yourself.
      “Boss, I have a proposal. I’m uncomfortable with my voice, face, and body being on YT but I know you want to publish these presentations. I think I have a solution: let’s publish a [whatever transformed version] with a transcript so that the content is still available but my identity is not all over YT–how does that sound?”

      Reply ↓
    4. AW_Recruiter*

      I might approach the conversation by asking your boss why she wants to start this channel and why she wants your videos on it. If it’s for marketing purposes, you can explain that you don’t think your editing videos put the company’s best foot forward externally. If it’s to get the information out there, maybe creating and publishing a PPTX deck would work. Rather than just saying no, wtart from a place of curiosity and see if you can use that to come to a better solution.

      Reply ↓
    5. Claire*

      Is the issue that you want them edited? If so, just say that. Otherwise, maybe offer to record separate versions for the web where you do feel comfortable (voice only, for example). A good manager wouldn’t want you to lie about feeling comfortable publishing the videos.

      Reply ↓
    6. Aggretsuko*

      I would point out the large amount of harassment women get on YouTube for existing.

      At bare minimum, request that the comments be disabled.

      Reply ↓
    7. Mila*

      A few things to try:

      – if these are recordings from internal activities, you could try suggesting that you may want to refrain from sharing internal information broadly since it was designed for internal use.
      – if people’s faces are shown (and assuming participants did not agree to a recording being shared publicly), you could try alerting her to that and suggesting that, if she wants public-facing material in the future, you will look into the necessary consent forms, etc.
      – you could suggest that, because these weren’t recorded with external use in mind, they’re not going to be the best reflection of the company (a lot goes into making high-quality video, etc.) and see if she’ll agree to selecting ones that she thinks are important to share and then re-record or edit them as needed
      – if you don’t want to be in the videos at all and the presentations are slides, you could suggest re-recording them so only the slides/visual material are visible and audio shared in order to make them easily viewable by audiences

      Reply ↓
    8. LaminarFlow*

      TBH, if the content is home-grown, and not edited in an engaging way, the company isn’t doing themselves any favors by creating a YouTube channel centered on it. If the idea behind publishing these videos for public consumption is to create sort of organic advertising for the company services, they need to have engaging content that is at least somewhat professionally put together to make it worth the time & energy of posting. If not, people won’t watch, or they could be turned off by the homemade videos, and look elsewhere for the same services.

      You could lead with that, and also…. don’t you have a former romantic partner who you need to be protected from, and these videos would likely drum up unwanted contact with that person??

      Reply ↓
    10. Workerbee*

      Are these really only of interest to employees? If your boss can’t be dissuaded from posting them, see if you can divert her to your organization’s intranet (whatever type it is) or a Knowledge Base library, or something.

      Reply ↓
  14. Someone Online*

    I work for an organization where half of the staff are reliant upon federal grants for their paychecks. While we haven’t lost any funding or staff yet, everyone is understandably scared and worried. And frankly tired.

    As a supervisor, what are some things I can do to keep things going? We are not able to be super political or partisan, other than just providing bland updates, so I can’t rally the troops to the resistance, for example. We’ve held some optional meetings to just ask and answer questions, we’ve tried to do some meetings where we do a game together. And it’s just all so paltry compared to the actual issue.

    Any ideas?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I’m in a similar boat. As awful as it feels, nothing you do or say can fix the situation or stabilize people’s jobs right now. I’ve been focusing on what is in my control, being honest about what I know, what I can share, and what I don’t know, and allowing for a little more honesty outside official channels. (Like I straight-up told my direct reports in 1-1 calls on our personal phones that I’m updating my resume and I think it would be wild for anyone to not be updating their resume right now, and that I’m happy to serve as a reference if they need me to. This is frankly an abdication of my management responsibility but it’s 100% the right thing to do as a human.)

      Also re: the paltry-ness compared to the actual issue, as it relates to your sphere of control, if you have expectations you can adjust on the basis of this mass distraction, this is a good time to do that. I adjusted everyone’s workloads assuming a 10% loss of productivity because everyone’s worried about their jobs and programs.

      Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      Do you have EAP? I work at a state agency that works with the federal government for a lot. I know I appreciate when leadership shows they understand what people are going through by sharing resources like EAP and just being there to share information and answer questions.

      Reply ↓
    3. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Can you recommend/support time for them to contact their various representatives to highlight how important their work is and how federal grants are important to it? Not being pro one party or the other, just like, “hey, I am concerned about how what is happening with federal grants is going to affect the important work I do, and I would like my rep to know this will affect their constituents.”

      Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      Would you be willing to be a current reference to people and not start shutting them out when you know they’re job hunting? If so, tell your staff! Beyond that, if there’s anything else you can do to make people’s lives a little easier that’s always a bonus. Be on top of expense reimbursements/supply orders. Keep communicating what you know, being as transparent as possible with your bland updates.

      Reply ↓
    5. LaminarFlow*

      Ask yourself how you would like to be treated here. While your personal response might be different from someone else’s response, if you lead these conversations with empathy and transparency, you are doing the best you can with the resources you have.

      Everyone wants to feel heard, so give your employees that gift, while also being clear that you only know what you know, and you are communicating it as you know it. If someone really does start to spiral out to a place that is harmful to anyone involved, send them some resources for help.

      Reply ↓
  15. Anon4This*

    Does anyone have advice for how to navigate a coworker who’s spiraling into doomerism? I have a colleague I really like. Yesterday in a meeting, we talked about making some plans for the future. Her belief is that we’re never going to get federal funding again, our state won’t either and because of that we won’t get state funding, and because of the economic downturn we won’t get any private funding either, and we’ll all be laid off and have to close. What was supposed to be a ten minute section of the meeting exploded into fifty minutes, mostly of her talking about how another nonprofit she’s involved with is struggling and how there’s nothing that can be done, leadership has no contingency plan, the board should be telling us what they’re going to do if we have to close.

    Today, our boss followed up on that meeting, and mentioned that historically private donations to our organization and orgs in our sector tend to go up during bad economic times, and that this is a well-established pattern. She followed up with a super long message saying, essentially, that this won’t happen this time, there is no funding, and there’s no plan and we won’t be able to do our work and we’re all going to get laid off.

    Again, I really like this coworker! She’s very sweet, and she’s clearly panicking because she cares a lot. But we’re taking so much time on her emotions, and about half of the team is getting riled up and ALSO panicking and the other half is just tired. I’m her peer, and she hasn’t seemed receptive to any gentle nudges of “we don’t know that this is going to happen” so far. Is there anything I could try, or should I leave it alone and just try to not get dragged into the panic myself?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Honestly, I think this is worth raising to your boss: “I understand Gertrude’s anxiety, but spending the bulk of the meeting dwelling on worst-case scenarios doesn’t seem like a good use of everyone’s time when we need to be focused on what we can do. I’ve tried redirecting her myself, but she doesn’t seem receptive. Do you think you could have a word with her?”

      Reply ↓
    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I mean … I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to be nervous and to feel like what’s happening now is different from any economic downturns we’ve seen before. That doesn’t mean you need to get sucked into her doom spiral, but I wouldn’t argue with her on the merits or try to encourage her it’s going to be ok. I’d just say something like “I understand you’re concerned, but we still have to move this project forward and I don’t have the bandwidth to discuss the larger context. [[switch topic to immediate work need]]”

      Reply ↓
      1. Alice*

        I think your phrasing is great because it avoids any sense that you are dismissing the doomster, just refocusing the conversation.

        Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      If this is happening in meetings, it’s worth talking to your boss and saying, “hey Boss, I’ve been feeling bad for Jen because it’s clear she’s really, really worried about the organization’s future. But she’s taking up lots of time in meetings discussing worst-case scenarios, and it’s creating an atmosphere of panic that’s affecting the rest of us. Can you have a word with her?” And if it’s happening in 1:1 conversations, you’re perfectly within your rights to say, “hey Jen, I know you’re worried. We all are. But I feel like discussing worst-case scenarios endlessly is making me feel worse and not helping things. Can we drop the subject, please?” and then talk about something else.

      Reply ↓
    4. Rex Libris*

      The blunt version is everybody could get hit by a meteor tomorrow too. There isn’t any way to know what’s going to happen beyond the present moment. You do know though that the org has weathered bad times before and they’re still there, so that’s good. You also know that in one election cycle we may be in a completely different world again.

      Yes things are bad right now. They’ve been bad before, they won’t always be bad, and the only thing you really have control over is how you choose to approach it in the moment.

      Reply ↓
    5. Blue Pen*

      I don’t know, I wish there were an easy an answer for this. I guess it depends on how much it takes over your colleague’s ability to do their job, if they’re seriously affecting or impeding the work of your team, etc., but on first read, I’m inclined to say to leave it alone and let her work through an extremely scary, uncertain time.

      I don’t mean to step up on the soapbox, but it’s my theory that the rush to sweep immensely existential things like this under the rug does much more harm than good. What is happening is not normal, and the normalizing of it by our leaders rings completely false, thereby alienating others from connecting and finding much-needed community (solace) within each another. You can certainly argue that that doesn’t necessarily need to happen in a workplace, but we’re all human beings with complex lives and emotions. It’s going to leak through.

      Reply ↓
      1. RC*

        Yes, this. I’m kind of thinking that the problem is boss’s attempted reassurances. Can you just.. cut that out? Because we DON’T know what will happen, everything is unprecedented and extremely scary and happening all at once and there will be massive collateral (e.g. how the Gates Foundation pulled money from climate projects to try to cover the gaps from the USAID nonsense, so yeah your boss’s reassurances don’t actually help).

        If I were in charge, I’d just avoid talking about too much future plans for the time being, and definitely avoid giving empty reassurances. Because frankly the future is unraveling extremely quickly and we don’t know what we’ll have to deal with medium to long-term. Can you focus on more near-term projects and milestones instead? I think it’s also fair to call out her spiraling in the moment and redirect back to the topic at hand, but don’t do it in a way that tries to minimize her valid concerns.

        And maybe be sure she has contact info for your EAP and also members of congress.

        Reply ↓
      2. Anon4This*

        I agree that we shouldn’t be sweeping it under the rug! I’m also scared, and I also know this isn’t normal. But I feel like there are actionable things that we should be doing, and my coworker is pushing back whenever something actionable comes up. So our boss will say “here’s some fundraising strategies” and she’ll say “but those won’t work! What’s going to happen when the funding dries up and we all get laid off?” Someone will say “we need to find community and build connections” and she’ll say “but there’s no community, everyone hates us.” (Which is just not true! We’re a very well-respected nonprofit with a lot of local connections.)

        I know this is anxiety. I’m someone who struggles with an anxiety disorder, and the way her conversations go sound a lot like my own negative thought patterns.

        Reply ↓
        1. Words to live by*

          Here’s a script.

          “I’m someone who struggles with an anxiety disorder, and the your her conversations go sound a lot like my own negative thought patterns. I have to protect myself and have to limit my conversations with you about this topic.” Repeat.

          Reply ↓
      3. Rex Libris*

        Yes, things are bad, but on the other hand I don’t think it helps to frame them as overwhelmingly so. Similar things have happened before. Just ask anyone who worked in manufacturing or depended on public assistance during the Reagan years. Take what action you can, take care of yourself, and know that these things are cyclical.

        Over the long term society trends more liberal with each generation, which is part of what has the dinosaurs up in arms. It’s the (hopefully) last charge of a failing ideology.

        Reply ↓
        1. Blue Pen*

          I understand that, and I’m not necessarily arguing that it’s healthy for someone to choose doom-and-gloom day in and day out. It’s not. But given the circumstances, I get it. Grief and fear and anxiety can’t always (if ever) be neatly compartmentalized, and if this colleague has otherwise done good work and performed well in the past, I am much more inclined to exhibit empathy and understanding (not saying the LW isn’t doing that).

          You also don’t know if one of the EOs or initiatives or whatever’s next on the chopping block is affecting her—or anyone—in a more personal way. Are they trans? Is there partner’s government job in danger? Is there daughter’s life-saving work in jeopardy because of the proposed NIH cuts? Any one of these things on their own is hard to deal with; having to deal with everything all at once all the time and never knowing what’s coming next is a lot to deal with.

          Reply ↓
          1. Blue Pen*

            *Missed a few “theirs” there!

            But I would say to the LW that I have empathy for them and their teammates, too. Being around energy like this is hard, too—especially if you’re looking for an “escape” or break of some kind at work. A friend of mine only wants to talk politics, and after a while, I have to excuse myself. Like I said, I don’t know what the answer is here, but I imagine a lot of workplaces are now facing this.

            Reply ↓
    6. Science KK*

      Do you have an Employee Assistance Program? That’s all I can think of. If you didn’t like her I’d say to tell her guess it’s time for you to start job searching, but that would probably make things even worse.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ashley*

        I think therapy might be helpful for her if you do have an EAP because a lot of this sounds like anxiety and catastrophizing is part of that. (Not a therapist but have personal experience.). Depending on how close you are is how much you can push on this as a friend.
        From a work perspective you can definitely make it your bosses problem. One key there is to start getting focused meeting agendas and timing them to limit some of this to table for later that never comes.

        Reply ↓
    7. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think in formal meetings, it’s up to whoever is running the meeting to cut that kind of thing off same as you would for any other off-topic tangent. “I’m going to interrupt here, Lucinda, because we have a lot of other agenda items to get to.”

      If she’s just a peer, I don’t know that you can do anything other than just ignore her in situations that are ignorable (e.g. ignoring the wall of text message). “We don’t know that this is going to happen” probably isn’t working because it’s not really a solid counterpoint to her doom spiral. But I do wonder if maybe trying to redirect her energies might help? e.g. “We don’t know that this is going to happen, but it might be productive if we spend some time researching new donor leads in case it does” or whatever might make sense for her role.

      If you have the same manager, you could also bring it up to them, e.g. “I’m finding it really distracting and frankly unproductive every time Lucinda starts down the road of talking about how we’re all going to lose our jobs. I appreciate that the uncertainty is scary, but this isn’t helping. Can you talk to her?”

      Also if she’s so terrified she’s going to lose her job, she could put some this emotional energy into finding a new one that isn’t so dependent on external funding.

      Reply ↓
    8. Claire*

      What’s happening right now is totally unprecedented so I think referring to past “bad economic times” would strike me as disingenuous as an employee. Frankly, your board probably should be doing some scenario planning and communicating that to staff. Have a facilitator for each meeting to keep the agenda on track, but also make sure your agendas have sufficient time and space to discuss the impacts of current events on your work, so it doesn’t seem like you are glossing over them.

      Reply ↓
    9. Ellis Bell*

      I would let her raise this stuff, and I would treat it as legitimate, but there’s no way you have to let this turn into an anti productivity rant, with no hint of a solution. So, decide how long people usually take to raise concerns or identify a problem for others, and allow her roughly that amount of time. At whatever point feels like it’s been too long, or is going nowhere, interrupt with a clarifying question. Usually, with chronic moaners, this is something along the lines of “So, what are you suggesting we do?” Or “I’m hearing some potential problems, but I’m not understanding what you’re actually asking us to consider doing about them.” Or “I get the concern, but what preventative actions do you want to pursue?” If you’re consistently getting nothing back but “abandon all hope”, it’s a discussion with someone higher up about keeping meetings focused on actually doing work.

      Reply ↓
    10. I have been Doomsday Person*

      There’s something martyr like about this question.

      Pivot the conversations to other subjects or end the conversations. Be kind to yourself by limiting interactions with her and nice to her by not being rude. You don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

      Reply ↓
    11. Neither Here Nor There*

      I feel so bad for her. It *is* a scary time. Being afraid is extremely valid. Bad things *could* come to pass. But unless and until they do, you still have to work.

      Unfortunately–as valid and understandable and very sympathetic as her fears are!–it’s not your job, as coworkers, to comfort her, or to listen to all her fears, or to try and reason through them. It sounds like the amount of time you’re spending already is demolishing your morale. I agree with other comments that this is your boss’s job–they need to keep meetings on topic and acknowledge-and-refocus when coworker goes “Why even bother?”

      And you need to protect your well-being, too. I would gently, kindly, cut this coworker off and redirect the conversation. “I’m scared, too, but I can’t spend this much time talking about what could go wrong–let’s focus on getting through today.” or “I’m also worried about what will happen, but I’m not ready to give up. Let’s focus on [thing you can do now.] If that doesn’t pan out, we’ll talk about what our next options are.”

      Reply ↓
  16. Jerry Gergich*

    I am currently doing a job search, though I’m not in a hurry to make a change. With that said, I am due for an annual bonus with my current employer in April. Here are some of the facts about the bonus:

    • The target amount is 10% of my salary but the amount can be higher or lower than that based on certain metrics. I don’t currently know how much it’ll be, but I don’t expect it to be substantially higher or lower than the target.
    • If I leave before the payout, I forfeit the bonus. I also thought that giving notice before the payout would also cause me to forfeit it, but I couldn’t find this when looking at the documentation explaining this year’s bonus. That said, it wouldn’t surprise me if giving notice meant that I forfeited the bonus. I would want to give the proper two weeks’ notice prior to leaving.
    • The documentation says that the bonus will be paid out on or before April 30. My boss has said that she heard they would pay it out on April 11, but I haven’t seen that in writing. That said, last year’s bonus was paid out on April 12, so what my boss said makes sense.

    This brings me to the question of how I would navigate an offer if it came before I received the bonus. I would definitely not want to leave that money on the table since the amount is not insignificant. With that being the case, if an offer came, would it be okay for me to ask to delay my start date to allow me to receive the bonus? Or would it be better to try to negotiate a higher salary that covers it, or partially covers it depending on how much of a pay increase I’d be taking with the new role? It will obviously become more feasible to ask to delay my start date as it gets closer to the payout date. I am also wondering if it would be risky to ask my supervisor or HR to clarify my questions about the notice period and the payout date. I would not do this without an offer in hand but, if I did this, I would only do it before accepting or negotiating the offer. My company is big enough that I don’t know anyone in HR, so I’m less concerned about them telling my supervisor about the conversation, though the chances are still nonzero.

    This is all hypothetical at this point, but any feedback would be appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. mreasy*

      Negotiate your start date to be after your bonus date. The new workplace should be understanding, and if they aren’t, reconsider the job.

      Reply ↓
      1. Always Tired*

        This is the answer. Generally companies are understanding and flexible around this. A place that isn’t either will offer you a comparable signing bonus to compensate, or isn’t the type of place you want to work.

        Reply ↓
    2. NotRealAnonForThis*

      Well, I don’t believe that I would discuss dates and rules/regs about bonuses and notices with HR, because that’s not likely to end well.

      You know better than I will as to the chances of having an offer locked down in the next (counts) eight weeks.

      For context: I’m at a point in my career where my most recent job search, from “I’m going to actually look” to “offer accepted and my notice given” was six months. That said, I was so absolutely disgusted by my previous boss at OldJob that I flat out said I knew I was leaving my annual bonus on the table and I didn’t give a flying you know what that I was as my integrity was not for sale. And as I gave notice to the previous boss’s boss, well, he at least understood why I did it.

      All that said – I would negotiate a later start date if its close.

      Reply ↓
    3. cloud*

      First, I wouldn’t worry about this too much given the timing. Job searches usually take awhile and given that tomorrow is March 1st, it’s unlikely you’ll receive an offer in time for this to become an issue.

      That said, if you do get an offer, your idea of clarifying with HR whether you can still receive the bonus in your notice period is a good one. Not sure how this works everywhere, but at my company at least I know you definitely do still receive your bonus as long as you’re currently employed. Asking to delay your start date due to the payout timing also isn’t unreasonable so you could definitely try that as well, if needed. Good luck with your search!

      Reply ↓
    4. Jeneral*

      We’re that far from April now. I would think it’s not very likely you’ll get an offer fast enough for this to be a problem.

      Reply ↓
    5. Indigo a la mode*

      This has come up in a few AAM letters over the years. Synthesizing those responses, I think it would be reasonable to tell a company at the offer stage that you expect a significant bonus right around your potential start date; would they consider letting you start 10 days later? Otherwise, you fully understand their need for a start date now and you are excited to start; would they consider helping mitigate the loss of that bonus with a one-time “signing bonus” of sorts? They might say no, but I don’t think it’d be a red flag for them. I’m sure this happens.

      Personally, I wouldn’t give notice before getting my bonus if I could help it; people have definitely lost out on bonuses because they were leaving and the bonus was meant to be a retention strategy.

      Of course if you get an offer right away and are supposed to start on, like, March 20th, I think that’s a bit too far to try for it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jerry Gergich*

        I didn’t even think about the possibility of asking for a signing bonus, but that’s something to consider. I was thinking asking for it, or at least a portion of it, to be added to my starting annual salary. At least that way, the new company will still only have to pay me for time worked in the first year instead of paying it all up front.

        Reply ↓
    7. Jerry Gergich*

      Another question that just occurred to me is how I should address it in interviews when asked how soon I can start. How transparent should I be? It’ll obviously be easier to answer once I know definitively when I’m getting paid and if I can get something in writing that states whether or not giving notice means that I forfeit the bonus. I don’t believe I’ve ever been in a position where I “had to” delay my start date beyond giving standard notice.

      The same question can also be applied to job applications where you are required to give an actual date for when you can start (which drives me crazy but that’s another discussion). As of right now, if I want to keep the bonus, the safest thing to do would be to set the date to May 14 (two weeks after the 30th), being that I don’t know for sure when it’s getting paid out or if putting in notice would make me ineligible. It would make sense that putting a start date that far out would cause my application to be rejected, especially since it would lack context.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anon4this*

        Start after your bonus.

        It is *basically* March and unless you started interviewing already I can’t imagine many companies giving you an offer before mid-April. If they do asking for a 4 week time in between is normal.

        Also saying May 14th would be totally fine/normal.

        I have started interviewing and job searching. One role I interviewing a few weeks ago and they told me next round March final round April but wouldn’t give me actual dates. I interviewed for another role that is also taking its time, but wants someone to start by August 1st. They were clear they can’t have people start after that date, so it should be brought up in interviewing.

        The only place I have worked that expects a fast turnaround was the UN when you were deployed overseas, but everywhere else seems to give you time.

        If you do get a signing bonus check the policy. I knew someone who got one and had to pay it back since they left before the period.

        Reply ↓
    8. HonorBox*

      This is all something that you should work out with the new company, not your present company. Don’t start poking around at your present workplace.

      If you’re at the point of an offer, let the new company know that you’re due a bonus of $X on, or before April 30. Let them know that you’re concerned about giving notice and losing that. Ask if you can start after you have that bonus in your account or if they’d like you to start sooner, whether they’d be willing to give you that amount as a signing bonus.

      Reply ↓
  17. Amber Rose*

    I feel like I will never understand upper management.

    A C-level asked me, how come another company in the same industry has had three years without an injury? How do we do that? And I said, upper management has to care enough to want to change the terrible culture here. And she responded by trying to brainstorm ways in which we can ask doctors to stop diagnosing injuries as being severe.

    Why?! What’s the logic here?! The costs of this culture are monumental. Millions. You KNOW. Wtf?

    Anyways, my more specific question is, at what point have I been at this job long enough that it makes sense to put it on my resume without it looking super bad that I’m trying to leave? It’s been 3 months.

    Reply ↓
    1. ScruffyInternHerder*

      In my industry, an explanation of “poor safety culture” would be enough to explain why you’re looking after three months. Safety numbers drive a LOT where I am though.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      Anyways, my more specific question is, at what point have I been at this job long enough that it makes sense to put it on my resume without it looking super bad that I’m trying to leave?

      I think it makes sense to put a job on your resume when you have significant accomplishments that improve your candidacy for the job you’re applying to. It depends on both (1) what you’ve accomplished so far and (2) what jobs you’re applying to.

      For example, if you’ve made significant improvements in an accounting spreadsheet at your current job, put the job and that bullet point on your resume when you’re applying to accounting jobs. If you’re applying to a job as a writer (no accounting or spreadsheet expertise needed), leave the job and the accounting spreadsheet accomplishment off your resume for that application.

      Good luck with your search!

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        Fair! I have actually done quite a substantial amount in three months. I’ve actually been approached by more than one supervisor thanking me for doing more in a couple months than my predecessor did in two years. That’s not exactly a compliment, it’s more like a reflection of the disastrous state of affairs here, but still.

        I’m hoping my latest business case goes through and then I can take credit for that too.

        Reply ↓
    3. Phony Genius*

      I guess the answer for the C-level needed to start with “the first step is to not assume that the other company is lying about their safety record.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        There’d be no point in lying since a company’s safety statistics are public record.

        I mean, it’s possible they’re still fudging the numbers by discouraging reporting, but that kind of thing usually gets caught pretty fast too.

        Reply ↓
    4. Anonohno*

      The reality is upper management cares about money, period, full stop, (usually). Any do-good-ing or empathy or *real* solutions that take more than 1 business quarter to implement are non-starters, sadly.

      Reply ↓
      2. Amber Rose*

        But they don’t seem to care about the money, or at least not in a meaningful way. Literally one of the things I was hired to do was reduce the workers comp premiums because they’re breaking the bank, but nothing I want to do to address that is accepted. It’s bizarre.

        Reply ↓
    5. Generic Name*

      With the problems you’ve been relating recently, I think job hunting now and leaving this job off your resume might be the best course of action. If asked why you are looking to move on, most places would understand that you cannot in good conscience work in your role at a place with such a poor safety culture.

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        Not yet, one more month. I’m almost done school. I’m barely treading water with a full class load and full time hours, there’s nothing left for a job hunt.

        Reply ↓
  18. Mouse*

    What’s the deal with interns burning bridges? Maybe it’s my industry (NYC art world), but I notice a lot of interns I work with are doing this. Maybe it’s just bad luck.

    I don’t mean things like showing up late. I’ve had interns lie to me about their schedule so they can leave early (it was my first day as a temp worker, so the intern tried to take advantage of that). I’ve had interns think they’d be alone for the day and invite their boyfriends over to hang out with them for hours…and then get caught doing it again (after getting a talk to about the first occurrence) because we have (very obvious) security cameras (and somehow the intern didn’t notice/didn’t think it was real–the cameras are for safety and insurance purposes).

    I know NYC has millions of people, but aren’t they afraid of ruining their reputation withing their industry? It’s very likely to work with the same peer but at different institutions later. It’s even likely that you’d bump into a peer casually (like just going to a coffee shop). I’ve definitely bumped into people that I thought I’d never see again.

    I guess I’m really perplexed because my boss has a lot of connections within our industry so she could help with referrals/recommendations for the interns next role. But with the interns pulling stunts like this…my boss wouldn’t proactively tell her peers “don’t hire this person”, but if a reference was asked for, then she’d directly say the intern wouldn’t qualify for one.

    Reply ↓
    1. mreasy*

      I’ve had great interns and awful interns. The ones who were great were actively looking to start careers. The awful ones were… just doing the internship because their parents wanted them to. The latter were much more likely to be funded by wealthy family as well. I work in a “glamorous” media industry though, so we may attract more of them than normal.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      I think it’s a combination of lack of forethought and also lack of life experience.

      Lack of forethought – it sounds to me like the intern’s thought process is “I want to see my boyfriend this afternoon, I’ll invite him to work.” No thoughts of the future beyond a few hours. No “if I do this, maybe I’ll get fired from this internship,” just “I want to do this thing so I’m going to do it.”

      Lack of life experience – if they’re just starting out in the work world, they probably have very little idea of how interconnected industries are. It’s obvious to you that their internship boss can offer referrals/recommendations to her connections, and it’s obvious to you who her connections are and what opportunities they may be able to offer people in the future, but the interns might just… not know any of those things (or know some of those things but not all of them).

      Reply ↓
    3. Ellis Bell*

      They just simply haven’t considered that these things would have actual consequences. You’ll need to explicitly spell that out if you want them to get it.

      Reply ↓
    4. Rex Libris*

      It’s main character syndrome. A lot of people go through life on the assumption that their wants and feels of the moment are The Most Important Thing Ever and everything else should naturally not interfere with that.

      Reply ↓
  19. Kate*

    My partner and I are oddly both facing similar situations at the office, and I am hoping for some insight from the smart folks here on how to handle!

    Each of us has a close colleague on the spectrum (one with Autism, one with AuADHD), and in both cases, they have a tendency to take over and derail entire meetings with info-dumps.

    In both cases, we’ve sat down with these colleagues and tried to understand what’s going on, tried to trouble-shoot, come up with strategies, etc.

    In both cases our colleagues have said “just interrupt us when we go into info-dump mode and shut it down”. Sounds great, right?

    Except that the social dynamics of the room don’t often work that way. In my partner’s case in particular, he’s a CIS white man, and him firmly shutting down a female employee in a meeting is… not a great look.

    At one point, we each tried to work with our respective coworkers in a “codeword” that we could slip in to the meeting to let them know to shut it down, but results so far have been mixed at best — both colleagues get on such a roll that you can’t exactly fit a word in edgewise, let alone to be “Dwayne, remember TPS reports!”

    Any best practices that you have seen work in your own offices?

    [smarting a bit from this because I just got out of another meeting where my colleague took over the meeting with her infodump, I firmly shut it down per her request, and everyone else looked at me like I am a big, scary monster of meanness, sigh]

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Sounds like you both have good relationships with these colleagues. Can you maybe talk to them and say, “hey, thanks for giving me the go-ahead to interrupt you and shut you down if you’re infodumping, but the optics of actually DOING that aren’t really good for me. It makes me look like I’m being mean. So can you maybe find a way to keep yourself on topic at meetings? What would make it easier to do that?” It might be something as simple as making sure the agenda is super clear and sent out in advance so these colleagues can plan out what they want to say during the meeting and create notes that they stick to without going off-script. And if they have questions, maybe they need to work on saying “I have a question about X, but I’ll address it to you in an email after the meeting.” If you do find occasions when you still need to interrupt, can you maybe phrase it as a question: “Leia, is it OK if I interrupt you?” and wait for a yes before saying something like “I appreciate this context, but in order to get through our agenda, we need to be able to move on to our next topic. Can we talk offline after?”

      Reply ↓
    2. Indigo a la mode*

      I can see two options.

      A) The infodumpers acknowledge at the start of the meeting (to everyone) that they may get on a roll/on a tangent and please feel free to step in if we start going off-track. It’s not a great look for them, but there are ways to make that endearing and at least it won’t affect your reputation.

      B) Agree on a hand motion, instead. I’m a fast talker, epecially if I get on a roll, and I have a couple of coworkers who will quietly give me the choking sign if it starts to get out of hand so I can notice and slow down. Maybe that would work for them?

      Reply ↓
    3. AW_Recruiter*

      I’ve dealt with this type of thing before! In those cases, I essentially introduce it at the beginning of the meeting more broadly – “We have a lot to cover in this meeting, so I’ll apologize in advance if I interrupt anyone at any point. I want to make sure we’re all using our time efficiently today. Similarly, if I start to go off on a tangent, I’d appreciate it if someone could point that out to me and bring us back to the topic at hand.”

      Highlighting that it could happen, what you’ll do about it, and inviting everyone to take part can go a long way in making a future interruption by you less jarring.

      Reply ↓
    4. Wellie*

      It’s likely that people don’t like the infodumps, so shutting them down in itself should not be a problem, even for a cis white guy.

      You might want to look at *how* you firmly shut down the infodumps. If getting a word in edgewise is a problem, try a gesture, like holding up a finger or making a time out gesture. Say her name repeatedly until you get her attention. Use all the polite wording you would use with allistic people, like, “Prudence, I need to interrupt you here so I can hear from other people/make it through the agenda/whatever”

      The key is going to be checking in with Prudence beforehand and informing her of the gestures and words you are going to use. If she is like many spectrum people, indirect wording won’t get the point across, BUT, many spectrum people will understand if you tell them what the indirect wording really means. So use your words beforehand with her to tell her what will happen.

      Expect this to be a series of conversations, not a one-and-done. Development conversations typically take a while to converge to improved outcomes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mila*

        Yeah, I agree. In my experience, most of the meetings that get derailed are the ones without an agenda and/or no one who is responsible for carrying out the agenda. (I also see derailments also happen in very hierarchical organizations when the person overseeing the agenda is lower in the org chart than the person doing the derailing, but that doesn’t sound like an issue here.)

        OP, if you don’t have a shared agenda, it might help to start using one with some time blocks indicated. That way, when you (or whoever is leading the meeting) interrupts, there’s cover using the timing indicated in the agenda. If you want to soften things more you can let the person being cut off know that you can continue the conversation at a later time if they have anything pressing to add.

        Reply ↓
    6. Head Sheep Counter*

      I really dislike the idea that someone else needs to manage someone else’s problem. I get that in a good working relationship we watch out for each other – but this sounds like transferring responsibility.

      As for what to do: what about a timed segmented meeting? eg 5 min for this topic, 5 for that etc with hard cut offs for everyone?

      Reply ↓
      1. Ellis Bell*

        Your second paragraph is actually a really good accommodation for people who haven’t figured out how to do what you’re suggesting in the first! For people with time blindness, having everyone do x minutes is a repetitive model of what x minutes looks/sounds/feels like. I do agree with you, btw, that it’s a person’s own responsibility, but the accommodation they come up with, online or wherever, has to be something that works for OP and their spouse.

        Reply ↓
    7. Ellis Bell*

      Something visual would be my advice. Auditory processing is going to be poor when someone is on flow. Lights, turning something on, signals. etc

      Reply ↓
    8. Spencer Hastings*

      If the infodump is truly disruptive, then the other people in the room will understand that it needed to be shut down and you’re not just doing it to be mean, right? They’ll likely pick up on the difference between Partner shutting down the derailing infodump and Partner not shutting down Colleague’s appropriate and valid input, I would think.

      Reply ↓
    9. Hyaline*

      Hmmm…I feel like “shutting it down” doesn’t have to be mean and scary? And I find it weird that others would see you or your partner as mean monsters for interrupting what has to be very clearly a derailment of the meeting? Honestly, I appreciate that person who puts the meeting back on track, regardless of gender, ethnicity, etc dynamics. Sometimes it has to happen–if you’re the one who has to, well…it has to happen!

      I’m guessing these meetings aren’t being “led” or “called by” someone–that there’s not a clear manager role here–because this would really be their job, and step one would be relying on them. If that’s not happening, or you ARE that person, or that person doesn’t exist in this situation, there’s nothing wrong with stopping a time waste, as long as you do it in a kind and redirecting way, not a mean shut it down way. I find it helpful to use phrasing that acknowledges their good work, or knowledge on the subject, or whatever, and redirects back to the tasks at hand matter of factly (it’s not that the hour long lecture wasn’t interesting, we just won’t have time for it!) and provide some other way for them to share/explain the thing. “Tim, I love that you pulled all that data [aka I am acknowledging your work here], but it’s so detailed and complete, we aren’t going to have time to go over it all right now if we’re going to finish this agenda [couching the denial in a compliment]. Could you email it to everyone to review before our next meeting?”

      And maybe if this is a consistent issue, don’t treat as a personality problem that a couple people are info-dumpers, but as a structural problem that the meetings lack direction and leadership. A clearer sense of who is facilitating the meeting and what the agenda is can help keep everyone on track, and if someone gets off track, it’s very clear that they’re off…and the facilitator can deal with that by bringing everyone back to the agenda. Nothing personal, just how it’s done.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        I’m not sure they are looking at OP as a monster as much as OP is uncomfortable shutting them down and sees herself that way,

        Reply ↓
    10. LaminarFlow*

      I deal with this alllll the time. I work in tech, and it just sort of comes with the territory.

      First, you and your partner can calmly and kindly say something like “Hey, Colleague, you are raising some good points about teapot design here. Can we get back to the TPS report that the meeting is for, and meet about teapot design another time?”

      I think your partner is smart to consider the perception of being a white male shutting down a female colleague. But, if he delivers the request with kindness (not a trace of irritation or condescension in his voice!) it won’t land poorly. Besides, the employees have made it known that they want to be nudged back to the topic at hand, so take them at their word.

      Second, talk to their managers. Remain calm and kind, but point out how Colleague frequently derails meetings, which impacts productivity. Their managers want to know this data point, and I would be surprised if they aren’t already aware of it/coaching the employees about it.

      Reply ↓
    11. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Another idea/script: When closing the topic, would it help to remind the room that your colleague has asked you to help steer them? So, something like:

      “J. J. J! You had asked me to help remind you if you’re going into info-overload-mode and I think we’re getting too many details here. Let’s move to the next item on the agenda, [introduce next item].”

      Ideally, this isn’t on you, but should be something the meeting lead/facilitator/timekeeper is doing.

      But very much seconding the comment(s) that it’s not great that your colleague is putting the responsibility on others, instead of finding strategies to manage themselves.

      Reply ↓
  20. HiredButHesitant*

    Have any of you struggled with grief and uncertainty even after landing a new job post-layoff?

    For some context, I was laid off in January from a job I really cared about. Now, I’ve been offered a new position, and while I know I should feel relieved, I’m still struggling with feelings of grief, anger, and doubt.

    I worry that I won’t like this job as much, that it’s a step back, or that I’ll never fully move past what happened. I want to go into this new position with a fresh mindset, but part of me is still holding onto everything I lost.

    For those who have been through something similar—did these feelings linger for you? Did starting a new job help, or does it simply take time to fully move on? I’d love to hear how others navigated this.

    Reply ↓
    1. Mila*

      What you describe reminds me a lot of how I felt when I started my current job. I left a job with people I enjoyed working with. I had a difficult time navigating the change and have dealt with a lot of self-doubt.

      Something I eventually started doing (and wish I started doing earlier) is keeping a log of every single accomplishment in my new job, whether it seemed super significant or not. Completed a big project, add it to the log. Was able to get an important project component done faster and more effectively than expected, add it to the log. I also started writing down positive comments I received or saving the emails where someone complimented my work.

      I honestly still struggle with self-doubt (and I’m not always a reliable narrator of my own accomplishments because I tend to downplay things until you’d barely know I was even in the room), but having these successes documented has given me something I can look at that’s essentially incontrovertible. It also means that when I find myself needing to describe what I do or potentially apply for another job in the future, I can easily pull these successes.

      Reply ↓
    2. Friday Person*

      I had exactly this after being laid off unexpectedly from a job I really loved. Even though my next job was on paper pretty clearly a “step up,” I absolutely dreaded every part of the onboarding, and once I started, I spent a whole lot of time resenting things from being different from my last job and mulling over both the past, and what was happening at my old company without me there.

      I am pleased to report that, at least for me, time absolutely did help with the sense of loss. That next job also ended up being a good fit in a completely different way, and as time went on I felt less and less connected to my old role and more rooted in what I’m doing currently, as well as the opportunities I never would have had previously. I still miss my old job on occasions (it really was great!) but in a totally manageable way.

      Reply ↓
    3. Bess*

      Layoffs are very hard–go easy on yourself for your normal feelings. Since you have another offer, it’s safer to process some of these feelings now, so it would make sense they’d come up.

      Not a layoff, but I didn’t unpack and address severe burnout from a prior job until I was months into a different, less stressful job. It took a while to feel like myself again and it wasn’t a linear process (and it did resolve–imperfect comparison but hopefully a helpful example).

      Reply ↓
  21. Janeric*

    I work at a workplace with a lot of surprise urgent projects, and as a result other projects that aren’t as urgent but are still important tend to be put on the back burner. There are other things compounding this issue — staffing issues, taking leave to catch my breath when things are slow, having very limited ability to say “no” to urgent projects — but in wondering if anyone has strategies for making time for important but not urgent work.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jeneral*

      I struggle with this issue in my job, and recently the thing that has helped, is that I focus on “investing” small amounts of time, like 20 minutes every few days, in the non-urgent work. These projects are mostly things I’m planning and writing by myself. This keeps those projects moving forward at least somewhat, and when their due date finally approaches, I’m not starting from scratch. I’ve found that even the little bits of work generate ideas, and help me feel less stressed about them because at least I’m doing something.

      Reply ↓
    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      Block out time on your calendar. Then talk to your manager and say, “I’m blocking out Friday afternoons from 3 to 5 to work on X because it’s been sitting on the back burner and I’m not getting it done as a result of all the urgent work coming in.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      work blocks – i.e. meetings with yourself to move important work forward.

      And, can you significantly decrease the level of quality for urgent-but-not-important tasks? (this may not work if all the urgent stuff is also important.) in my context we have a lot of urgent work that has to be done but everyone will forget about it by tomorrow, so it really only needs to be at like 40% quality as the important stuff. It’s amazing how much time it freed up when I gave myself and my staff permission to totally half-ass the urgent projects, and it had no impact on our big-picture results.

      Reply ↓
    4. Quinalla*

      Just that – make time for them. Block out time that allows you to make progress, 1 hour a week maybe, 2 hours a week, etc. and don’t let urgent but unimportant work get in the way of it. When things are less overly busy and you have staff back where it should be, carve out more time 4-8 hours a week or more depending on the project importance. But don’t let it completely fall off your schedule or it will be near impossible to get it back.

      Also schedule those time blocks (1) when you are less likely to be interrupted and (2) when your brain is 100%. If you are a morning person like me, make sure it is in the first couple hours of the day. If your strong time is midday or afternoon, ditto!

      Reply ↓
      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Yes, this. A commenter above, on the inbox zero thread, mentioned the Eisenhower quadrant and that can be applied here as well.

        Get on the same page with your boss regarding your priorities then let urgent but not important requests know you won’t be able to turn stuff around on time (if they encroach on non-urgent but important projects).

        Reply ↓
  22. Kay Tee*

    For an off-site, after-hours, non-mandatory company party, how far in advance would you want an invite/save-the-date? Is, say, 2 months enough? Or would you prefer more like 3 or 4?

    Reply ↓
    1. Mila*

      How far away is the location from the usual workplace? Unless it’s a significant distance and/or people will need to arrange travel/fly in just to attend, then 2 months seems like plenty of notice.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kay Tee*

        In the same town as the main office. A couple dozen would come from the satellite office around 40 minutes away, and two individuals come from from a city three hours away (travel and mileage paid by the company).

        Reply ↓
        1. Mila*

          2 months seems reasonable to me, but given that someone asked for more notice I get why you might want to offer more. If it’s difficult to nail down a date more than 2 months out, perhaps you can offer a heads up about a company party coming up and give a ballpark period for when it will be held.

          Reply ↓
    2. Kay Tee*

      Asking for my workplace social committee :) We’ve been functioning closer to 2 months, but someone anonymously requested “much more notice” than we’ve been giving, so I’m trying to gauge preferences. I’m honestly a little flattered they care that much to attend our spring party, I don’t think I had really considered it as something people hold a date for! I saw it more as a “come if you feel like it” deal, but I’m happy to learn that people want to prioritize attending.

      Reply ↓
    3. cloud*

      Two months sounds reasonable to me. My company usually sends a “save the date” email for our company party 2 months in advance and then asks for formal RSVPs 1 month before the event. That seems to work well and provides enough notice for most people.

      Reply ↓
    4. Diana*

      For a non-mandatory party I’d say 2 months would be ok for an invite. If you have the dates confirmed, an email save the date, or listing on a staff calendar/newsletter 4 months out to start seems good too.

      Reply ↓
    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      If it’s peak holiday season, I’d hope for 3 months. Otherwise I’d be just fine with 1.

      (assuming that non-mandatory does really, truly mean non-mandatory).

      Reply ↓
    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      It depends on how far off-site and how long it is. Happy Hour near the office? I don’t need a lot of lead time. Something farther afield, I want more time to decide if I want to bother.

      NB: I don’t have kids, and I assume that the people who do need more time to figure out childcare.

      Reply ↓
    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      I try to schedule these out as far as possible, 2-4 months usually, just so people can plan. We’ll tend to get better attendance with more notice.

      Reply ↓
    9. Quinalla*

      As soon as you know the date, send it out. Some folks have extremely busy schedules or obligations that require planning ahead a lot. Then remind and send out further details when it is closer (2 months, 1 month, and a few days ahead). The folks having to drive 3 hours need as much notice as possible if they have care obligations, clubs, coaching, tutoring, volunteering, etc.

      I wish my company where I have a similar drive to in person events would give 6 months notice, but I’ll take 3-4 months. The earlier the better!

      Even if everyone is in town, with responsibilities outside of work, folks still need to plan ahead! Even if just to not plan PTO that day or whatever.

      Reply ↓
    10. HonorBox*

      I think 2 months is plenty, but given that someone has asked for more notice, maybe give everyone the date as soon as you have a date and location locked in. Then just send a couple more reminders than you would have otherwise.

      Reply ↓
  23. Cara*

    A long one: trying to figure out how to navigate having my boss encroach on my work because it happens to be something boss is interested in.

    I was hired to be the painter on a teapot team. I work with all the departments in the company to design paintings for teapots. My role was to have ownership of teapot painting since it’s a new activity for the company, so I’ve working on painting teapots since I started, releasing a couple new ones every couple weeks. Almost a year into working here, a new person was hired on our team in a role that supervises two people including me.

    My boss also does teapot painting, but hasn’t been working for as long as I have. Although teapot painting isn’t included anywhere in her job description, it’s an interest of hers and something she describes herself as an expert at—the way it has panned out is that now she’s taken ownership of the teapot painting part of our work and I essentially am now working at her direction. Except there isn’t a lot of direction: she often doesn’t have a good sense of what to do. For example, when I presented my painting plans using lots of bird motifs, she told me it was a bad idea to do bird motifs, and then later (after grandboss mentioned how important it is we do bird motifs), she instructed me—including in front of grandboss—to do more bird motifs, without ever acknowledging that her instruction or opinion has changed. She’s also very focused on jargon, so I end up spending a decent amount of time making tiny changes to internal-only documents I draft (think changing “teapot painting” to “teapot art” even though painting is the only art we do).

    Now, she’s decided that she’s going to also start painting teapots herself and is going to use the ideas I’ve outlined for upcoming teapots. I’m not precious about these ideas because I know it’s company work, not personal, but I am getting fed up with feeling like I have no ownership of this process I was ostensibly hired to lead. It feels like my hands are tied—I don’t know how to say anything without coming across as critical and my grandboss is completely sold on my supervisor and I feel will always default to assuming she is in the right. Speaking directly to my boss has felt ineffective so far because she simply “forgets” what we talked about (even if written down) and is primarily focused on making sure her star is rising in the company. (If it matters, I’m an introvert and this team highly favors extroverts.) As an aside, my boss does not actually paint teapots herself, she uses an automated tool that paints the teapot and then makes some adjustments by hand. It’s something that grates on me, but as far as I can tell isn’t something the company is aware of and/or they don’t find it objectionable. I mention it because I’m starting to find it difficult to recognize where I just differ with/don’t get along with this person vs. where I have legitimate professional concerns.

    I am looking for other work, but it’s rough right now so I have no idea when I’ll be able to find something. In the meantime, I’m not sure the best way to handle this. All my reviews and regular feedback have been positive (I have received literally zero negative feedback), so I don’t think this is happening because of an issue with my work. We have a team-accessible list of painting ideas I created, so I can keep my own private list to work on so things don’t get poached. But that seems sneaky.

    Reply ↓
    1. AW_Recruiter*

      You said you’ve spoken with your boss and those conversations often don’t stick, so perhaps you’ve done this, but… I would distill my concern down to one very clear, obviously impactful item, and go all in on that one thing (for now). So, for example, changing terms in internal docs or your boss using a tool to do the painting don’t seem to be the primary issues, but having ownership over your own ideas might be. I would sit down and outline what 1-2 things about that particular item you need her to do differently and how it negatively impacts the business to not be able to ideate/paint in the way you were hired to do. Having a really narrow conversation makes it easier to stay on topic and, hopefully, get your boss to agree to (and you can hold her to) specific changes.

      Reply ↓
    2. Green T*

      So, I’ve been in similar situations before and I’m a voice for documentation! If you’re not interested in looking for another job and DON’T want a confrontation about job responsibilities (especially if you’re in the US, since they can hire most people to paint teapots and then make them mop floors because of our largely contract-less system) I recommend starting a practice of “notes for the file!” The way this works is, say you have a conversation with your boss and she says “No more birds on our teapots, Cara, only cabbage from now on!” When you get back to your desk, you send an email to your boss saying “Based on our conversation today per your instructions, I will be sending you cabbage-based patterns and no more birds for the rest of this month!” Then, if at some point your boss’s boss says “Hey, Cara, what is with all these cabbages” and your boss replies in the meeting “oh, Cara, where are all the birds!?” and you don’t feel comfortable saying right there “oh goodness I can’t wait to get back to birds, boss, I’m glad you changed your mind about the cabbage” (or your culture doesn’t support that) then you can just forward your “note for the file” email to your boss and your Boss’s boss and say “just confirming from our 10:00 meeting today that I will shift from (boss’s) instructions below to paint more birds again!”

      I found that after I pursued a relentlessly cheery pattern of notes to file all of a sudden people more senior than me got a lot less interested in “trying their hand” at parts of my job and if they did and it went south, my reputation didn’t suffer and I got praised for my excellent organizational, listening, and records-keeping skills to boot!

      Reply ↓
      1. Mila*

        Thanks — this sounds like an interesting idea. How did you find it came across when you started doing it? I’m just wondering if it’s going to look like I’m trying to undermine boss if I start sending notes when I haven’t previously done that.

        Honestly, grandboss seems checked out a lot of the time and fine with letting boss run wild. There’s also an uncomfortable (to me) “we’re a family atmosphere” although some people are very obviously prioritized above others. (Probably unsurprisingly, there are a lot of issues going on at my company!)

        I always feel uncomfortable coming across as if I’m speaking up for myself because of previous problematic workplaces. Also, my last job did really well ensuring everyone’s viewpoint was welcome and I had a lot of face time with senior leadership, so they got to know my strengths well. In my current job, people you don’t work with directly every day will have literally no clue who you are and senior leaders only interact with senior leaders.

        Reply ↓
  24. Back to uni?*

    anyone on here gone back to school later on in life? would love to hear your stories
    I’ve found a program I really like the sound of and is not too far from me, plus I think I can comfortably reduce my hours at work.
    in particular anyone from the UK applied for student and maintainance loans later on in life?

    Reply ↓
    1. Paint N Drip*

      I have no advice on the UK side of things, but I have taken on adult education in my 30s. Huge difference in how I approached the classes, I was afraid that I wouldn’t really have time to squeeze the classes in (I did not change my work schedule) but as an adult learner I have so much more in the way of self-management skills AND the classes were my choice so I was much more interested. There is some universal technology changes since my first round (everything on Canvas, or a similar portal) but if you are comfortable with computer use, should not be a problem. I hope you have a wonderful experience!!

      Reply ↓
    2. E*

      I went back at 38 with a soul sucking full time job and a young teenager. It was hard! I suggest taking online courses for as much as you are comfortable since you can do coursework and watch lecture when you have time. I also had to let things around the house go a little, things like more eating takeout and housework doesn’t get done as often. My experience was that school was equivalent to a 20 hour a week part time job. I was finishing my bachelors and doing 12 credits a semester, depending on the program you may need more or less time per week. I’m glad I did it but it was a lot of very late nights finishing homework after a long day at work.

      Reply ↓
    3. PM by Day, Knitter by Night*

      I graduated with my masters last May. I was 50 when I started – my husband referred to it as my mid-life crisis vanity project (in jest – it was directly related to the work I do). I worked full time and took two classes a semester, a combination of synchro and asynchronous classes with all the reading, assignments, projects. I spent 15 to 20 hours a week total, most weeks. I loved the program and, for the most part, the work. Over the 6 semesters, I took an few PTO days/half days during crunch times but for the most part I was able to keep my full time work schedule. The program was designed as part time for working people.

      One thing I might recommend, depending on how the program is structured…my first semester I took one class instead of the two I took all of the other semesters. It helped me get acclimated to being back in school and minimized my initial cost. I figured if I hated it, I could walk away without significant investment.

      Group projects are terrible.

      Reply ↓
    4. Pam Adams*

      I returned school- US- in the mid 1990’s to go into computers. I got a good degree, but also discovered a love of academic advising. I’m still at the university, years after earning the degree.

      Reply ↓
    5. Amber Rose*

      I’m in my mid-30’s about to finish school in April. I’m still working full time and doing my best to manage my workload. It’s been weird, honestly, though it helps most of my classmates are in more or less the same boat since this is a continuing education course mostly aimed at professionals, and I have never done fully online education before this.

      It’s been kind of fun but definitely a bit stressful keeping up. It’s funny because my teenage self was very much a low C student, and right now I’ve got mostly A’s with a couple B’s. It’s kind of a self esteem boost.

      Reply ↓
    6. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Got a masters degree at 52. I was older than all the other students and all but one of my professors. Was a good experience, and I didn’t feel it was an issue at all. Didn’t really do much for my career, but it was something I’d always wanted to do and I really enjoyed the learning.

      Reply ↓
    7. Lifelong student*

      Not UK but I got my bachlors in accounting when I was 47 and an MBA when I was 56. Classwork was easy for me except some of the more theoretical mathmatic courses since I did not have a higher math background and accounting is arithmatic- not math! For my both degrees I was working full time. No children at home. I found that being a mature student helped me cope with time drains better- I had learned that while raising my children as a SAHM.

      Reply ↓
    8. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I went back for a master’s in my late 40s, but kept working full-time. I was able to find a program that was all online and relatively inexpensive, and I just funded it out of my salary. It took a while to pay off but I am now happily employed in my new field.

      Reply ↓
  25. trying_not_to_be_evil_HR*

    I lead HR and talent for a small (~50) professional services firm. We have a culture of promoting from within, and I’d describe most of our team as high-achieving. I’ve run into an issue with two roles and I’d love to get ideas/explanations/etc., from others who might have some experience with this type of thing. This is the largest company I’ve worked for and haven’t run into this situation before.

    We have two people in project support roles. Let’s say if we provided llama grooming services, they would be the people scheduling the llamas, ensuring the llama owners had all the details on our services, and communicating with our groomers when they’d be seeing each llama and what the owners said their unique needs were. They are great at their jobs! And, like many of our high-achievers, want to continue to grow in their careers. Because of that, I’ve been working with them and their manager to define what additional responsibilities they could take on and what their next steps could look like.

    However, I’ve recently received feedback from these people that they are in “Career Roles” and don’t expect their responsibilities to meaningfully change. Ok, that’s fine by me, we’re not an “up or out” company – They can absolutely stay in those roles. But they also shared feedback that they don’t feel like they should be locked into the same title or pay.

    This is where I’m a bit confused. I’ve always thought of title changes equaling changed/increased responsibility and, outside of yearly COLAs and minor raises for strong performance (which we should and do give), I haven’t heard of paying people more to keep doing the same job.

    Is there anyone out there with experience with “Career Roles” and suggestions/insight into how other companies might handle this? I want them to be happy and feel like their contributions are valued, but are promotions/raises the only way to do that?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think you need to be able to tell them that title changes and pay increases beyond yearly COLA or merit adjustments only come with increased responsibilities. “For you to get promoted to Grade 2, you need to do X, Y, and Z.” This requires good solid job descriptions that are clear in responsibilities and requirements at each level. And you can say, “we’re happy to help you skill up to take on those responsibilities if you aren’t ready at this point in time, but so long as you’re doing the same job, it’s going to have the same title.”

      We’ve had this problem as well with some employees where I work: they’ve seemed to feel that seniority itself should suffice for them to get promotions and associated pay raises, but that’s just not how it works here. You have to be willing to accept that you might lose these people if they don’t want to do the work they’re doing for the pay they’re receiving. They might find a job elsewhere doing the same thing for higher pay, it’s always possible.

      Other steps you can take:
      1) Make sure you’re paying at a market rate for these roles.
      2) Make sure you’re providing access to professional development and time to take advantage of PD opportunities during the work day instead of “in your free time.”
      3) Make sure you have been clear about what is required for a promotion and are equitable across the board in applying those requirements. If even one person has the same responsibilities as these people but has a higher title and higher pay, it’s not going to look good.

      But if you’ve done all that and they don’t want to do the work to get the advancement? That’s on them.

      Reply ↓
      1. Strive to Excel*

        The only other thing I can think to add to this (which is excellent) is checking with them what specifically they don’t want to change. A lot of promotion paths in many industries start moving away from the actual skill of the job and more into managing skilled people at the job – and a lot of people don’t want to manage! That’s one reason I moved companies last year. If there’s distinct Subject Matter Expert vs Subject Manager paths available, they should know that as well.

        Reply ↓
        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          Good point! We’re working on creating a non-management advanced position on my team at the moment for that reason.

          Reply ↓
    2. Wellie*

      What kind of new title are they looking for? Are they looking to move from Llama Coordinator to Llama Project Manager? Or are they looking to move from Llama Coordinator 1 to Llama Coordinator 2? Do you even have a level 1 to a level 2 at your organization?

      Also, what is your pay structure? I have always gotten merit based raises of around 2-5%, but at the places I work, merit bases raises are not tied to a promotion. I basically do the same job for more money.

      The other question is, how much ability do you have to change anything? That is, if a 2-5% raise to keep the same job title and responsibilities is not a thing where you work, are you able to implement that? Likewise, if Level 1 vs Level 2 with a job category is not a thing, do you have the ability to change that?

      If your corporate structure is such that people will never get more than a 3% COLA to stay in their job title and leveling up within the job title is not an option, you have to be candid with them about that.

      Reply ↓
    3. Generic Name*

      Honestly, I think there just is a subset of people out there who want to stay in the same job and take on no additional responsibilities but continue to receive merit increases and title changes because “they do a good job”. And that’s just not realistic for most businesses. I think it’s fair to explain that to the employees. I’d explain what kind of performance warrants merit raises (don’t just say “go above and beyond” explain what that would look like in their role). Also explain that there is a market-based cap on what the role will pay; meaning they can’t expect to be doing assistant duties and get the pay of a lead (or whatever).

      Reply ↓
      1. Generic Name*

        Adding that I think many people think like this as a holdover from school. A student who gets Cs is moved to the next grade level up same as a student who gets As. If “meets expectations” moves you from 7th grade to 8th grade, why doesn’t it move you from llama groomer to senior llama groomer?

        Reply ↓
  26. bereaved*

    warning this is heavy
    How long is it acceptable for a death to effect your performance at work??
    Context: I lost my younger brother (22) two weeks ago to either a suicide or an OD or (unlikely) a seizure. He was estranged from the family, so it’s been a lot of admin work trying to clean up his apartment and get him cremated and everything, but my parents have taken that on. I’m 24 and a stem phd student in the us.

    Because of the logistics, his funeral isn’t until a month after his death, which is also four weeks before my big qualifying oral exam that determines if I get to stay in the program. I’ve been doing well in my research and grad students and profs have both told me before my exam that I’m “not the one” they’re worried about, but now with his death, IDK h0w well I’m going to do in a high pressure 3 hour oral exam. I feel okay about the death now, but obviously grieving. I’m worried about having a breakdown or something in the exam room. I haven’t taken any work off yet- I’ve still been working on my papers and proposals from my parent’s house, so no effect on my performance…yet.

    Is it reasonable to caution my committee that my performance might be effected by his death, or is two months after a sibling death (1 month after funeral) too long to still be fragile and lean on the death as an excuse? I want to do well, but sometimes the grief is kind of crushing, but other times it’s not bad at all.

    Reply ↓
    1. CherryBlossom*

      I am so, so sorry for your loss.

      As someone who also lost a sibling too young, two months is not at all too long to still be feeling fragile and grieving. If you haven’t brought it up before, please do so as soon as you can; any half-way decent human being would be more than understanding. But the sooner you bring it up, the better.

      Reply ↓
      1. Science KK*

        This! Tell them now, and that you’re concerned about your performance for your advancement since you don’t know how you’ll feel then.

        Reply ↓
        1. RC*

          Yes, hopefully you have good and understanding advisors, and your uni likely has an ombudsperson who might also help you navigate your options. I’ve heard of people getting “conditional passes” on their quals; I’m not sure how those situations come about, but if they’re aware of what you’re going through and you do somehow totally bomb (it doesn’t sound like it though) then maybe that’s something that could happen versus immediately kicked out. (Also, I’m not sure how your uni is structured, but frankly I think in most cases they already pretty much know how things will go before you get in the room. Which can be good or bad, but again it sounds like you don’t have a lot to worry about.)

          Grief is not linear, it can come in waves of unexpected heights at unexpected times, and I hope everyone understands that (although some STEM programs do have a reputation, ugh).

          I’m sorry for your loss.

          Reply ↓
      2. bereaved*

        Thank you for sharing. I appreciate the perspective.

        I told my advisor in person the day after I found out, and she gave me a hug and has been very supportive. I emailed my committee members individually at the one week mark and told them the funeral timeline and that I may be in and out of the office more than normal. They all emailed back nice emails (at least the opening line were nice, I’ve been dreading reading the full message. I know I shouldn’t avoid things, but the fatigue of reading and responding to so many messages about my brother is real).
        2 months just sounds like such a long time right now, even though it really isn’t at all.

        Reply ↓
        1. Cordelia*

          I know this wasn’t your question, but you don’t have to read the full emails, it’s absolutely ok to avoid that – there’s so much stuff going on that you really can’t avoid but this you can. Your coworkers are being kind and wanting to help, they don’t want to make anything harder for you – it doesn’t matter if you don’t read their whole emails, they will never know, and would understand even if they did.
          I’m so sorry for your loss

          Reply ↓
      3. spcepickle*

        My mom died when I was an undergrad in college. 5+ years later when I was finishing up my masters degree I had ended up in a ball of tears for 2 days at the idea of graduating without her there. Grief has no timeline, and there may (or may not) be times when this hits you. I would consider if now is a time to get a little therapy, it can sometimes be easier to access therapy through your college health center. Spending some time processing now might mean things don’t hit as hard when you stressed out later.
        I would also say let you feeling be what they are – my brother is an alcoholic and grief I have dealt with in letting him go while still loving him is . . .complicated. There are times when things happen that I think I should be upset about but I am not and then minor things that happen that really break me up. Don’t feel like you have to have certain feeling and don’t let people give you flack for feelings of lack there of.
        All that said – yes tell your committee, two months is not very long at all when coming to terms with grief.

        Reply ↓
    2. Kathenus*

      Absolutely reasonable that you are still affected. I lost my dad and brother-in-law within a couple months of each other two years ago and in some ways it’s still affecting me and my motivation level at work, in part because of other family obligations I’m now trying to navigate. Please let them know, give yourself patience and grace to not try to put a timetable on your feelings, and I’m very sorry for your loss.

      Reply ↓
    3. Wellie*

      There is no timeline for grief. It’s been 10 years since my mother died in an accident, and I still break down missing her sometimes.

      Have you let your advisor or committee know that your bother died and when the funeral is? You should at least let them know when the funeral is, if only to let them know you will be unavailable for a couple days. Having some context will make them more understanding if you are not at your best for your defense.

      Reply ↓
      1. bereaved*

        Thank you for the response. I am sorry about your loss.

        I told my advisor in person the day after I found out and my committee members at the one week mark. They’ve all been supportive so far, my advisor especially. I think I am working myself up about my qualifying exam more than I should because I’m losing so much prep time.

        Reply ↓
        1. Duicounselor*

          I echo everyone else’s thoughts that two months is not long at all. I’m so sorry for your loss and this must be so difficult. I think, especially the fact that it was a suicide or an OD makes it doubly difficult – so I would expect to have some trauma Around that aspect as well as the death itself.

          Is there any way to delay the exams? I realize there probably isn’t but is it possible even to get a couple of weeks extension? If you can take a little extra time to prepare, I think it will help you mentally even though I think you’ll probably do fine without it. Wishing you the best.

          Reply ↓
    4. Turingtested*

      I am so so sorry for your loss. As a manager I always take the employee’s word for it but I don’t expect a complete recovery from loss of a close relative or friend for about a year. (Stepping away due to being overwhelmed with emotions, needing an hour here or there etc.)

      Reply ↓
    5. StressedButOkay*

      I am so incredibly sorry about your brother. I lost my sister young (29) around 12 years ago. I was absolutely still not okay two months after – grief, as you said, comes in waves and is hard to predict. (At times, I still get knocked flat by it.) Your grief is not an excuse – you’re actively hurting and that is going to impact you.

      I recommend speaking with them before hand and letting them know. They’ll have experience with students going through all kinds of things and will understand.

      Reply ↓
    6. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Comfort and peace to you and your parents, first of all. This is big and sad and it’s absolutely reasonable not to be able to do “normal” things for a while.

      Can you talk with your advisor about whether it might be possible to postpone the oral exam by 2-4 weeks to give you a little more recovery time? And can you also talk with your campus mental health office to connect with some support for yourself?

      Reply ↓
    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. I agree with the posters here and will also note that you might feel OK but then be hit by a significant date (especially a birthday) and feel more than you expected.

      It sounds like your advisor is supportive. If your university has counseling services, you might also look into those. When I was an instructor, faculty could make a referral to get students priority scheduling for appointments.

      Reply ↓
    8. It's Thursday!*

      First off, my sincere condolences

      For context: I have a STEM PhD and I currently teach at the undergrad level.

      Is anyone on your committee aware of what is going on? I would definitely give at least one person a heads up (the one that seems the most reasonable*) because the grief is impacting you and will continue to impact you. 2 months is not at all too long to be fragile and qualifying exams are intense in the best of times! Be kind to yourself over the next few weeks – you have a lot going on

      as a professor it’s helpful for me to know what stuff is going on with my students (please be assured I never pry or request details) because sometimes I can provide extensions, I can direct students to resources, and there is also a difference between a student not doing their best due to choosing to party too much and a student not doing their best due to complicated life issues

      Also, if you haven’t, you may want to check out if your campus offers therapy so you can talk things out with a third person.

      Wishing you all the best!

      *Hopefully, no one on your committee is a jerk who thinks grief should be neatly wrapped up or “there are no excuses” but sadly I still work with some people like that…

      Reply ↓
    9. Chauncy Gardener*

      I’m so very sorry for your loss.
      ABSOLUTELY tell your committee, advisor, whomever that you are dealing with this. Grief has its own timeline that can be unpredictable.
      Good luck with everything. Internet hugs if you want them.

      Reply ↓
    10. Bess*

      I’m sorry for your loss. The way you’ve posed your question is a great example of how we culturally don’t really have a good robust process for dealing with death and grief. There’s no “should” in how you handle it and as others have commented, there’s no timeline and it’s not linear, and it doesn’t really just taper off neatly from more to less sad.

      I think if you’re transparent with your advisor/committee to say that your response hasn’t been predictable and just let them know what’s going on, if they’re even remotely kind people, they’ll get it.

      Reply ↓
  27. Andromeda Carr*

    This one is political and partisian. Let’s get that out of the way.

    So it’s pretty clear that a dampening effect is being intensified against hiring Black people, women of all ethnicities, trans people, and to a less explicit (for now) extent other LGBT people, disabled people, and members of minority religions. The “anti-DEI’ push has already spread from the government to major corporations. However, we can’t just sit down and accept that we will have to be unemployed for the next four years. What, if anything, can we do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Justin*

      Look for the orgs that always actually believed in their convictions, as a lot of the companies that are stopping their work (and I mean beyond just changing language) were the ones that were always just giving lip service.

      I feel very secure at my org, which has mostly Black leadership (I’m Black too).

      I would say unfortunately it’s more revealing that a lot of places never REALLY cared. So it’s best we do whatever we can to try and work for places that do. The whole antiDEI thing isn’t “don’t hire any POC,” so the places that are responding that way were never safe for us in the first place.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rex Libris*

        I think this is incredibly on point. Government aside maybe, since they’re more directly at the mercy of the Orange Overlord, all of the orgs making immediate and public declarations about how they’re stepping back their DEI efforts are basically just saying “Our virtue signaling is no longer profitable, so never mind.”

        Reply ↓
        1. Justin*

          Yes. Frankly I don’t even really look askance at them in that I never expected much from them, I look askance at the people who are surprised that they were full of sh*t.

          We always knew.

          Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      To put your comment in perspective, were these government and corporate jobs actually hiring? I mean, Elon is actively eliminating government jobs. You shouldn’t be under any illusion that any position was about to be created. Corporate roles? I’ve been a bit of a broken record on this, but the government BLS reports have consistently shows no growth or negative growth in any sort of “corporate” field such as Accounting, almost all job growth has been hospitality, food service, and healthcare.

      So I will not make a judgment call on your feelings about DEI because it’s not my area of expertise, but the job market is on very thin ice; DEI being in place or not is not the reason any given person can’t find a job. No hiring is why people can’t find jobs

      I do think the media does a disservice by focusing on the “headline” total # of jobs created. That has been good some months. But it makes zero differentiation between a 90k a year Accountant and a part time doordasher

      Another thing to note with regards to DEI is if it actually benefited American workers like you. There’s been an estimated 300K jobs outsourced per year, India controlling an estimated 45% of the “outsourced” market. Many jobs that used to be high paying American jobs (coding, business analysis, anything software related, IT…) have gone there. So while it may check a “diversity” box, it won’t benefit you and it’s lowering pay for everyone.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hyaline*

      Whisper and not-so-whisper networks. I’m pretty confident that employers who *actually believed in diversity* will go on practicing those values and probably increase their support to the best of their abilities. It’s the companies that just paid lip service to the ideas, hired people and then didn’t support them, weren’t going to continue to if it didn’t improve their bottom line immediately types–honestly, they may have had “DEI initiatives” because it made them look good in a particular atmosphere, but the initiatives were destined to fail because they were just shiny glossy rhetoric covering same-old, same-old. I can think of a few industries where, sure, POC were getting hired–and then given zero support, totally got dumped on, weren’t getting promoted, and ended up leaving. The DEI initiatives didn’t truly help them, because they were never meant to–they were meant to make the company look good. I think we’re all going to be relying on the network to discover who is a good employer, which employers are actively upholding the values we share, etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. Justin*

        This is precisely my point. The ones who are immediately folding, I bet if you asked POC/LGBT employees etc, they would say they were never truly affirming places to work.

        Reply ↓
  28. Justin*

    I’m pretty sure I mentioned two weeks ago that I had a presentation for the CEO and apparently he loved it and was telling my boss excitedly about it.

    (Long story short: part of my job is running our external-facing learner management system that we use to develop trainings for clients etc. But we upgraded it recently and are much better able to build out things that will help the entire org.)

    We don’t depend heavily on federal funding, but the CEO also agreed that if we build this out well it can bring in additional income that can, eventually recoup what we may someday lose (we’re a large, stable nonprofit with 300ish employees, we’ll be okay, thankfully).

    My hope is that I can use this to angle for a promotion (just a title really, I can’t imagine that my responsibilities would change much) later this year. But it’s just good news for now.

    It’s hard to be happy at Hard Times, but as a descendant of enslaved folks, I’ve long known that refusing to allow Them to steal our joy is part of how we make it through.

    Reply ↓
      1. Justin*

        As someone once said on a big stage recently, “once upon a time, all of us was in chains.”

        I keep a poster of the town where my ancestors were owned (in S. Carolina) above my desk. I have no earthly excuse to ever give up.

        Reply ↓
  29. Applesauced*

    How much do you complain about work to your spouse or partner?

    My husband pointing out that I complain about work every day. And I LIKE my job!

    Yes, I have difficult clients sometimes – say I’m a teapot designers, I have a client right now who went to school for teapot design but has never worked professionally or built a teapot, and he makes my job much harder by “back seat” designing.

    But I also have clients who are great! Collaborative, reasonable, down-to-earth….

    I guess I never say “I had a good day, client Y is so wonderful!” It’s mostly “ARG, client Z is making me nuts again!!”

    Reply ↓
    1. :)*

      I would say I complain a few times a week, but I also highlight good things or things I’m looking forward to just as often! I think that helps both of us avoid getting too in the dumps.

      Reply ↓
    2. Paint N Drip*

      We are all so different in that regard! Personally I think it is nice to try to think about and/or chat about at least one good thing, even if it was a little moment (saw someone notable, the bush in front of the office bloomed, etc.)
      My husband complains about work every day, usually only for a minute but sometimes he vents; he generally likes his job.
      I complain about work maybe once every 2 weeks, usually for a good few minutes. I generally don’t like my job and my issues are ‘systemic’ so complaining doesn’t make me feel any better. When someone wants to do the ‘talking about our day’ thing I usually talk about my drive, or my pets, or lunch, or what weird stuff I saw downtown :)

      Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      Very rarely. My husband and I are both in fairly specialized fields with almost nothing in common, and both of us have to do a lot of context explanation to make the other one understand something about or work. One place where we DO both have experience is in managing people, so I’ve vented to him about issues with that as he has to me, but that’s not something I need to vent about often! I vent instead to close peers at work who don’t have anything to do with what I’m venting about, or to my manager.

      Reply ↓
    4. Head Sheep Counter*

      I almost never do because of the nature of my work beyond a ugh or a comment on the workflow for the day.

      However, I’m consumed by the world and all the bad news. So we’ve taken to when walking the dogs, consciously limiting our discussion to say 5-10 min and then trying very hard to say nothing further (at least as a discussion).

      I’d take to heart that he mentioned it. It means it is happening more than you are aware and that there might be something to probe about why. As silly as the adage is, we do contribute to our own negative feelings about situations.

      Reply ↓
    5. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Only when he directly asks. We don’t talk much about work at all, tbh – like maybe once every two weeks one of us will share something small from our jobs. And I’m unhappy with my current role and actively looking to get out; just not something I want to bring home every day.

      Reply ↓
    6. StressedButOkay*

      We both work from home and can actively see the frustrating bits when they happen XD ! Unfortunately, it’s the worst time of work for me and his work is … interesting right now, so venting is an every day thing – but when we’re seeing the issues first hand, it’s so much easier to get.

      Reply ↓
    7. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      We have a family practice where we all share a “victory and a challenge” (both of us and our kid, now 12) from the day at dinner. My “challenge” is work-related maybe 50% of the time, and my “victory” is more often. (The work-related “challenge” used to be more frequent, but I no longer work closely with the particular person who was driving me crazy – nowadays the “challenge” is usually more technical rather than interpersonal in nature.)

      Reply ↓
    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      I try not to complain at all to my husband unless things are bad enough that I’m starting to think about looking. I mostly try to sporadically share only funny or interesting stories. Work takes up enough space in my life!

      Reply ↓
    9. Ellis Bell*

      This reminds me of gratitude diaries. When people are in the habit of talking about the things they love, they forget to take it for granted themselves.

      Reply ↓
    10. HonorBox*

      This is based on my own experience, so please feel free to filter it through whatever prism you need to filter it through for your own. When my wife complains about work, I can sometimes get stressed or upset on her behalf. I want to support her and want her to have the best situation. But there are times when she needs to just get something off her chest. There’s no “thing” to fix or be upset about. So she’ll just tell me she needs to talk. I don’t need to respond. Heck, I don’t even really need to pay attention. She just needs to say something out loud to the person she trusts completely.

      Reply ↓
    11. Cynthia*

      I don’t talk about my job much outside of work, to anyone, because my job’s not that interesting. To my partner I mention things like the head office is being ridiculous with the budget again, or a coworker brought in snacks to share. Maybe five minutes of “here’s how my day was” before moving on to other topics. But I find it increases my stress to dwell on frustrations and I don’t get much benefit from venting, personally.

      Reply ↓
  30. I edit everything*

    Anyone have any tips for getting through a job’s busy season? We have a few months of the year when my job is a little crazy, a bit of swimming upstream with big incoming tasks and multiplying little followup tasks. It will eventually settle down, but for right now, the to-do list is constant.

    I’ve learned I need to make sure I take a proper break during the day, take a walk, etc., but by the end of the day, I’m still a little spacey and braindead. Any other ideas, or just hang on and push through?

    Reply ↓
    1. Science KK*

      Look for simple things that fill your cup. For me I have a 8 am workout class in Sunday mornings that really helps me get ready for the week, and since my weekend work is flexible I always prioritize that. Or reading before bed, a video game, your favorite restaurant for takeout on the couch. Things like that that are small but will give you even a tiny boost.

      Reply ↓
  31. Blue Pen*

    I’ve seen this come up a few times in the comments here, but I thought it might be helpful to anchor here:

    For those working in higher ed, what are you hearing right now? How is your campus leadership responding to the current administration? How do you feel about your job security?

    Reply ↓
    1. Science KK*

      My institution has basically said they’re pursuing the legal fronts and we aren’t backing down. My immediate boss has said if we need to we’ll take out the trash and run the compactor like we (they, not me) did in 2008. But I’m in California so I have a lot privilege many folks don’t.

      Reply ↓
      1. RC*

        I am so grateful to at least live in California, but it’s still scary af. I’m glad some institutions are fighting, since big tech has proven they are actually evil.

        I saw Union of Concerned Scientists has some CA-focused efforts, to the extent that anyone can do anything besides calling reps over and over and starting slow lawsuits.

        Reply ↓
    2. Alex*

      I’m in higher ed. I’m getting vague messages of reassurance from the top leadership. My specific job isn’t heavily reliant on federal grants, so I think I have more job security than some others, but it is a gloomy atmosphere.

      Reply ↓
    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      My higher ed employer has instituted a hiring freeze and has announced a 5% cut in the general operating budget for FY 26. As yet, layoffs are not on the table. They’ve been very transparent about how different potential scenarios regarding stuff like endowment tax increases and tighter caps on indirect funding would affect us. Our leadership has a three-pronged approach of pushing back where necessary (joining the lawsuit against the NIH), trying to engage when possible (we have lobbyists in DC), and adapting where necessary. My employer has been something of a target of government conservatives lately, and while the administration isn’t leaning into a rebellious position, they also aren’t complying in advance with mere rhetoric.

      I feel good about my own job security. I’m in a back-end position in the fundraising department, and we’re about to launch a campaign. Private support is going to be even more necessary with decreased federal grants, so it’s likely the university will be leaning on our whole department to really bring in the dollars. But I suspect that not all departments will be in that position.

      Reply ↓
    4. Blue Pen*

      Some spots around campus are enacting a “soft” hiring freeze (specifically for research positions), but so far there hasn’t been a university-wide hiring freeze yet. Jobs are still being posted as of today. Leadership hasn’t said or hinted at anything coming, but since we had one during COVID, I’m almost certain another is coming for this. I’d actually be shocked if they don’t implement one.

      A couple of our bigger projects that were on deck are getting pushed to the next fiscal year to free up more budget if necessary, so we’re taking some proactive steps that way.

      I’m not in a research position and position isn’t grant-funded (no position in my office is), so I’m not too worried right now, but I’m definitely brushing up my resume over the next few days so I can be ready if the worst does hit.

      Reply ↓
    5. Hyaline*

      I’m outside the grant-o-sphere for the most part, so I think that’s a big point of difference–people I know whose work relies heavily on grants are scrambling quite a bit more than my department is. Since nearly anything DEI-flavored already existed at our university under different auspices before the DEI language and money being available if you called it DEI, I have a feeling a lot of programs are going to just…slide back into what we used to call them and how we used to run and fund them.

      Campus leadership has so far been kind of tacitly pushing us toward a business as usual mindset. On the ground, we’re ignoring quite a bit of it until it’s actually enforceable and/or legal cases play out.

      I’m not worried right now about my own job security, and since I honestly expect the economy to tank a bit with the federal layoffs and other economic policies rolling out, and there’s usually a correlation between people going back to school and economic slowdowns, those of us teaching and doing student support are IMO likely to stay busy the next four years.

      Reply ↓
    6. Higher ed anon*

      Thanks for posting the question, it is helpful to see what others are experiencing.

      My campus leadership has been…cowardly, to put it politely. Already folding on the DEI front, all websites have been stripped of any references to DEI. The direction we’re getting is that the work itself is not changing, only the language. My particular department doesn’t depend on grant funding so I’m hopeful we won’t be affected, but we’ve also got some emails from campus leadership that have a, I guess I’d say, vaguely threatening tone (exploring all “fiscal scenarios,” that kind of language) so I’m definitely paring back my budget out of caution. Programs have had to rescind graduate acceptances given NIH cuts, but so far so word of layoffs or hiring freezes.

      Reply ↓
    7. sgpb*

      I have a job interview in higher ed today. It is not grant funded or anything, think central IT. But this particular university focuses on adult students and disenfranchised populations. How much wariness should I have in accepting a position here?

      Reply ↓
      2. Cynthia*

        Look up whether their enrollment is falling and by how much. If it’s holding steady or only falling by a little, that’s a good sign.

        Reply ↓
  32. Trying to Get Out*

    TL/DR; essentially my internal transfer is being delayed for no good reason by a vindictive grandboss who loves control

    I wrote in some time ago about trying to position myself for promotion upon my boss’ retirement and not trusting the grandboss to pursue that (due to their perceived insecurity and dislike of me as a star employee). Well, that time has come and the boss is leaving soon, so I requested a meeting with grandboss to discuss this and to find out where their head was at regarding my position at the organization, and as I suspected, they made it pretty clear they don’t think I have the skills or qualifications to move up into my boss’ role (false) and gave me a list of underwhelming and junior level projects being considered for me. (I have 10+ years at this workplace) while in the same breath lauding the accomplishments and skills of a few new employees who are still so new they are still in their probationary period.

    Almost as soon as this conversation happened, another department approached me and asked if I’d consider joining their team in a lateral move. It would come with a quick promotion, more creativity, responsibility, autonomy, and increased WFH to what I currently have, so I enthusiastically said yes to their proposal and the paperwork started. I asked to be the one to inform the grandboss when everything was official and I had a start date. That must not have happened, because I’ve just learned this week from my would-be boss that this grandboss is stalling my move due to “essential projects” that I need to finish at my current job. Readers, I have absolutely no workload so I don’t even know what projects this grandboss is talking about. This is just a last ditch effort to control me as this grandboss has enjoyed doing the last few years. They absolutely do not want to see me thrive professionally. Is there anything I can do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Blueberry*

      Unless you feel you can go above your grandboss, you can leave. Grandboss wants someone to control, while still getting work done. That’s you. You need to not be that person.

      Reply ↓
  33. KAZ*

    Does anyone have advice for interviewing while visibly pregnant? I am 6 months pregnant and starting to show. I am not actively job searching, but a job I have wanted for years is open and I feel I owe it to myself to at least apply even though the timing is bad.
    Should I bring up my pregnancy in the interview? Pretend it’s not happening? My normal interview outfits (professional wrap dresses) will not minimize my bump at all, but I don’t feel like I have many other clothing options.
    thanks for you help!

    Reply ↓
    2. trying_not_to_be_evil_HR*

      If it is possible to have the first round or two be virtual, try to make that happen. Not just protection from a legal perspective, but practically – The more the interviewers/team can get to know you from your work before they see you’re pregnant, the more likely it will minimize unconscious bias.

      But echoing WantonSeedStitch – Do not bring it up at all until you have an offer in hand.

      (Also, I can’t tell from your comment if you feel this way or not, but I speak to a number of pregnant people who feel like they have to apologize for being pregnant like it’s a personal affront to an employer. But businesses have to manage through leaves of absence all the time. You don’t need to feel badly/guilty/sneaky/however for just… living your life.)

      Reply ↓
    3. spcepickle*

      I would not bring it up and I would try to dress in such a way to minimize your bump. Take your cue from tv actresses and carry a big purse or files held at just such an angle. I would also ask if there was any chance to do a team/zoom interview, which for a first interview at least should be doable.

      Reply ↓
  34. Other Alice*

    I started a new job in January and the company assigned me a buddy to show me how the internal systems and procedures work. My buddy “Sally” is also new to the company, she’s only been there a few months ago, but the reasoning was that since she just went through training and orientation she should know where everything is. Plus, I think someone well-intentioned thought to connect the only two women in the business unit (the entire field is male-dominated, not just the company).

    My issue is that Sally thinks she’s being a wonderful mentor, but in reality she is worse than useless. The information that she provides is often wrong or incomplete, and she can’t answer very basic questions that I have. I think she’s struggling. It took her months to get through some basic training courses that I finished in two weeks. Part of the problem is that she is switching careers so she’s not familiar with this industry, while I’ve been doing this job since I started working so I just needed to get up to speed with the specifics of how this company operates.

    However, Sally is convinced she’s doing such a great job mentoring me, because she’s older (I’m 40, she’s 50) and has more experience. I know this because she told me as much. She’s constantly messaging me, or calling me to ask how I’m doing, or sending unnecessary advice. I’ve tried everything I can to shut her down, but she doesn’t listen. For example she’ll say things like “you’re so young, in time you will learn [extremely basic thing]” and I’ll say “I’m not as young as I look, I’m 40 and actually I’ve been doing this job for over 10 years so I’m quite familiar with [thing]” and she’ll just ignore that and proceed to explain the thing to me. I don’t want to be rude to her because she means well and she thinks she’s helpful but I am at BEC with this woman.

    I’ve tried to ignore her as much as I can, but I can’t completely shut her out because my manager still expects me to participate in this buddy program and in our 1:1 he’s always asking me if I’m keeping in touch with Sally and I don’t know him well enough to speak openly with him. Long story short I was wondering if anyone has suggestions or a script for how to handle this without losing my sanity…

    Reply ↓
    1. RagingADHD*

      It’s going to depend a lot on your temperament. I’m pretty good at tuning people out, because I don’t actually care whether the Sallys of the world know my skills or competencies. I care that my manager and reporting line know.

      And if getting along with Sally is something my manager cares about, I’d probably divert the conversations more into letting her share about herself personally.

      Over time, I’d probably start replying to my manager’s questions by describing the low-skill work things Sally is covering and saying, “but I think I’m up to speed on that – is there anyone you recommend I talk to about [high-value question / skill X]?”

      Reply ↓
    2. Wellie*

      Who is in charge of the mentor program? Is it someone different from your boss? I would ask for a new mentor.

      It’s hard when you are new and don’t have a good sense for how someone is going to react to poor feedback, but the only thing you can do is use your words. Try having a separate conversation with Sally, separate from any specific work thing, in a private space, and lay out the pattern. Sometimes it helps to get permission first. “Sally, would you be open to some feedback about how the mentoring going?” Then tell her what you are seeing, and ask for what you want. And what do you want? Do you want her to stop telling you basic things? What would you like her to tell you instead? Maybe you need to lead by telling her your experience level and then tell her you have noticed that she likes to give you remedial level advice which leaves you feeling that your experience doesn’t matter to her. Decide what you want from the conversation, then have the conversation.

      You also have to be candid with your boss about how her mentoring is appropriate for a new grad but not appropriate for an experienced mid-career worker. If she is telling you things that are wrong, say as much, and with examples. As before, decide what you want from the conversation first. Do you want a new mentor? Do you want no mentor? Do you want to stay with Sally but have her mentoring improve? What you need for getting up to speed at a new company is not so much mentoring and more just process instruction. Maybe you can ask for someone who has been with the company a while so you can get the process instruction.

      As a general comment, most people do not have the skill set to mentor a mid-career employee. Mentoring fresh-outs is easy–they are an empty vessel and anything you tell them is lifechanging (not universally true, but largely). Most people who like to mentor and think they are good at mentoring have this level of mentoring in mind. But when you already know all the remedial stuff and have more complex issues to resolve, you need a more sophisticated level of mentoring. Almost nobody is up to this task.

      Reply ↓
      1. Other Alice*

        Thank you for the answer but let me clarify one thing — this isn’t mentoring, it’s just a buddy program. Sally is supposed to be helping me if I have questions such as how to submit a request for a corporate mobile, what’s the travel policy, is there a standard template for presentations, etc. Really basic things that everyone at the company would know, and at this point I’ve more or less figured it out on my own.

        I’m not sure she would be happy to receive feedback. As a random example, a while ago I needed a manual for some proprietary software and Sally sent me a file, saying how lucky I was because it took her ages to find it when she needed it. When I opened the manual it was very old and outdated, so I ended up looking for the newest version. I sent Sally a link explaining I noticed the one she sent was for an old version and this might be helpful. She was quite huffy because I’d gone and looked for the thing myself instead of asking her. Needless to say I haven’t asked her anything since, but this hasn’t stopped her from trying to “help”. The solution might just have to be that I try to redirect any work conversations into casual chatter or just ask about herself and how she’s doing, as other people have suggested. I really don’t care that she knows about my level of experience or not, just that she stops providing me with useless and incorrect info.

        Reply ↓
    3. Goddess47*

      Ask for ‘someone with a different perspective’… as in, “As another new person, Sally has been helpful, but I’d like to have a chance to work with someone who has been at the company for a while so that I can get a different perspective on the work.”

      If you’re feeling like taking a small risk, pick something Sally wasn’t able to explain (so your boss is indirectly informed that Sally doesn’t know everything!) and add, “And Sally isn’t that much newer than I am and I’d like to see how a more experienced person does X because there are details that Sally doesn’t yet know.”

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    4. Mad Scientist*

      Can you think of any topics to ask for her advice or opinion on, even personal topics? People tend to find that sort of thing flattering, and it may help redirect some of the unsolicited advice she’s offering. You can also ask her for other contacts, like “Who do you usually go to for questions about XYZ?” That’s still asking her for help but in a way that’s more likely to get you correct information because you’re getting the answer from someone who knows what they’re talking about. I’ve dealt with a somewhat similar issue when I was assigned a mentor who was around the same level of experience as me, and I had a really hard time coming up with genuine work-related questions for her. We ended up getting engaged around similar times and I started using our mentorship meetings to ask her about wedding planning stuff. Redirecting to personal topics helped make those meetings a lot less awkward because at least we finally had something to talk about and it allowed her to feel useful.

      Reply ↓
      1. Other Alice*

        Oh I love this idea… I think she really likes the idea of being useful and giving advice, because she has been struggling with the trainings, but asking her for advice on personal topics could be interesting.

        Unfortunately can’t apply your other suggestion because she has somehow managed to connect with nobody in the 6 months she’s been here. For example I told her I’d be shadowing Steve on a project to learn how XY is done at this company and she had no idea who Steve was. He’s only our most senior coworker with 20 years of experience! She has no interest in meeting Steve, or in talking with our manager about shadowing opportunities for herself, but she did try to tell me what she knew about XY from this one sales presentation she read. I should… stop complaining. I’m thankful for the suggestions (this comment+others) because I need some way to divert her attention.

        Reply ↓
        1. Mad Scientist*

          It’s a valid complaint, honestly! It’s annoying to keep getting unsolicited advice about things you already know. Asking about personal topics (even if you don’t genuinely need / want her advice on that stuff either) in these situations has been my way of leaning into the idea that asking someone for a “favor” is a good way to trick people into liking you. Sounds manipulative, but it’s really just about giving people the opportunity to feel valuable.

          I’m at a new job now too and we have to go to sessions for newbies that are supposed to be about mentorship / networking / “meet the higher-ups”. So many of the sessions are just the facilitators offering to “answer any questions we may have” and it’s really awkward when no one has questions for them. I know the sessions come from good intentions, but sometimes it feels like the sessions are more about giving the facilitators a platform to feel important than actually helping the newbies (although I’m sure it’s more helpful for recent grads / early career folks). I’ve resorted to asking where they like to get lunch near the office just to fill the silence, and then acting like I can’t wait to try out their favorite restaurant, even though I usually can’t actually eat anything on the menu because of dietary restrictions (they don’t need to know that part).

          Since this buddy system was just intended to help with your onboarding, the next time your supervisor asks about it, could you say something like “It was nice to have a buddy when I first started out, but now that I’ve been getting the hang of things, I haven’t really had any more questions for Sally.” Onboarding shouldn’t last forever!

          Reply ↓
    5. Ellis Bell*

      On the age stuff, I’d nip that in the bud: “You’ve mentioned my age a few times, and it’s not really relevant; I need you to stop referring to my age at this point.” You can be warm as you like, but say it or she won’t stop. As for your boss, I get that you don’t know him well enough to tear Sally down, or roll your eyes at the hopelessness of this buddy program, or to be super candid, but surely you can let him know you’ve gotten as much out of it as you could? If the aim was for Sally to provide you with a basic what/where from her orientation, what’s wrong with reporting back “mission accomplished”? If it’s still somehow forbidden for you to cut her lose, I’d approach her from a position of sympathy, possibly mixed in with a little gratitude, that you’re actually in a more favourable position than she is. I’ve dealt with lots of people like this and it’s either Dunning-Kruger or they think they have to front it out, to prevent people from pitying their struggles. Buddy systems are supposed to be beneficial on both sides right? It might be a kindness to just ask her how things are going for her, rather following the original set up of talking about your questions, or asking advice. It will still be a buddy relationship! Your scripts are fine, but what’s the point in convincing her that her knowledge is basic? When she says something completely wrong, it might be worth thinking the problem through with her out loud, and pointing her in the right direction. If that gains no traction, maybe just a lot of “hmms” and grey rocking to make it too boring for her to enjoy, coupled with padding out your calendar so it doesn’t happen more than necessary.

      Reply ↓
  35. JustaTech*

    Looking for advice on how to survive a week of working the night shift at a site across the country.
    Next week I’m flying across the country (West to East) and then working the night shift in a manufacturing facility.
    So far what I’ve read is: 1) caffeine at the start of shift, but not after the halfway point,
    2) hydrate as much as you can (but I’ll be in a restricted area with limited access to the bathroom)
    3) move around a lot (that will be easy)
    4) do your best to have a completely dark space for sleeping (we’re staying at a nice hotel, so hopefully the curtains will be good)

    Is there anything else essential I should know for how to survive this? Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Do you normally work the night shift? Are you operating machinery? I feel like they should give you a day or two to acclimate to the new time zone; I’ve read that you need one day for every hour in time zone shift, so in your case three days (though I’m doubting they’d fly you out three days early).

      Reply ↓
      1. JustaTech*

        I do not normally work the night shift (I am Not a Night Person at all).
        I won’t be operating any machinery or anything dangerous; I’m there to observe the processes and learn the process. I am the Subject Matter Expert for this process, but I don’t do it in the manufacturing facility, so there are a lot of location differences I need to observe.
        I could have chosen to fly out earlier so I’m not going straight from cross-country flight to all-night shift, but I don’t want to be away from my family for that long.
        I also have the seniority/authority to say that my team and I will not be observing the entire 12+ hour shift (because that would be insane), but if we’re going to haul out tails all the way out there I want to get as much useful data as possible. So it’s striking that balance and staying alert. (It also means mid-shift naps are impossible.)

        Reply ↓
        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          In this situation, the biggest change is not actually related to the flight itself, or jet lag, but just the day/night shift change. Doing this in a day or two is rough, but I’ve actually done something vaguely related in a former career in observational astronomy – there was no flight involved, but going from working typical day hours of starting at 9 AM to nighttime hours of starting around 8 PM has some similarities. Suggestions:

          * If at ALL possible, try to start pre-acclimating a day or two before travel. Say your night shift will start at 8 PM ET / 5 PM PT (jet lag actually works in your favor here, which it rarely does eastbound) – can you shift things before travel even a couple hours so that you’re starting at 10 or 11, to get you part of the way there?

          * While you’re there you will need to rely on caffeine. Accept that.

          * A completely dark place to sleep is KEY. You may also want to consider earplugs or a white noise machine – a hotel will have noise during the day. (This is where my comparisons break down – in astronomy we had dedicated places to stay on the mountain, with good blackout curtains and complete silence since everyone else in the building was sleeping too.)

          Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Bring some big binder clips to the hotel to help keep the curtains closed. Ask for a room that faces north or west, not south or east.
      Let the front desk know that you’re working overnight and you’d like housekeeping before or after your sleep shift.
      Consider a white noise machine.
      Reduce or eliminate alcohol.

      Reply ↓
      1. JustaTech*

        I was wondering if it was worth telling the front desk about us being on night shift, thanks! Acquiring binder clips now…

        It’s funny that a lot of advice of having to sleep during the day in a hotel is the same as the advice for how to get your baby to sleep in a hotel room.

        Reply ↓
    3. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      One thing I would add is food choices. I know being away from home it can be hard, but try to stay away from the fast food type stuff. It can make you feel slower and just not good.

      Also, bring a sleep mask, just in case the curtains are not completely blackout. And Maybe tell the front desk that you will be sleeping so they don’t disturb you.

      Reply ↓
      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        Sleep masks FTW. I use them all the time even though we do have good blackout curtains at home. When I was in the hospital giving birth, and there were always lights, they were INVALUABLE.

        Reply ↓
      2. JustaTech*

        Right! The plant is in an industrial area, so we’ve been strongly recommended to stop at a grocery store (after the first day) to get our middle-of-shift meal, so I’ll be sure to have some fruit and veg.
        I was just listening to a podcast about the impacts of shift work (breaking news, it’s terrible for your health!) and one thing they mentioned is that it can seriously confuse your digestive system, even if you’re eating a normal diet. Yay.
        (I hate that we have to run this plant on the night shift but there is literally no other way due to things like biology and the size of the planet.)

        Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      Can you get there at least 16-24 hours before your first shift? Because my advice for resetting your sleep schedule is this: on the first day, stay up until the time you would go to sleep on night shift. It will not be fun, but avoid caffeine to help you as much as possible. Then do your shift’s equivalent of going to bed at 9 PM and getting up at 6 AM.

      This also works for time zone changes.

      Reply ↓
    5. night shifter*

      If you have time to acclimate a day before stay up as late as you can and then stay in bed until when you would get up to leave for the shift, even if you’re awake, or at least lay back down for a nap.

      Before you go to bed in the morning after your shift eat a small to medium sized meal with carbs (food coma!) and then take a shower that’s warm at first and then cool it off before you get out to drop your body temperature pretty low so that you’re ready to crawl under a blanket and hibernate. Straight to bed afterwards. Use a fan or a white noise machine.

      I work nights by preference and that’s my morning routine. I sleep amazing during the day and nothing wakes me up.

      Reply ↓
    6. Three cats in a trenchcoat*

      Have you ever used bright light (like that gets marked as an SAD lamp)? They can be good for helping reset circadian rhythm, so would use during your “morning” eg in the late afternoon/early evening when you’ve just gotten up for the day.

      Melatonin also has some evidence for use when adjusting circadian rhythm, so could take to help promote sleep during the day.

      Reply ↓
  36. Fickle*

    Hi all, I posted a few weeks ago about turning a job offer down solely on the basis of having a bad feeling about it, and wanted to share an update.

    I transitioned into tech several years ago from a background in the arts. My current job is in an industry I don’t really like, with my current employer being inoffensive enough for me to have taken the job as a foot in the door. The job I turned down was for a company that made Software as a Service for companies in my current industry. The compensation was essentially identical to my current role, but it did look to offer experience in things that would be good for my professional development.

    The day after I turned down the job, I was invited to interview by a local company in an industry that I feel a more positively towards, but not particularly strongly about. Everything was going well with them, and I felt confident that I’d accept an offer from them if they made it.

    Then, I was invited to interview with a company I had applied to way back in December, that worked in the specific area of the arts that I was in before. I had a first interview that excited me, and the day before the second (and final) interview with Arts Company, Local Company offered me the job.

    I asked Local Company to give me some time to consider the offer. The most senior person in the call was a little pushy about knowing why, and wanted me to respond by the following day. I was able to negotiate a little longer, to the morning the day after. I immediately emailed the hiring manager at Arts Company and let them know I had an offer and when my deadline was to decide on it. I asked if they would be able to give me feedback on how I was doing as a candidate following my interview with them, and they agreed.

    I had a meeting to receive feedback from the hiring manager at Arts Company first thing in the morning on the day I needed to respond to Local Company. Not only did they offer me the job, they let me know that they had gotten permission to increase the salary budgeted for the role for me. I accepted on the spot, and am now waiting for paperwork to finalise so that I can hand in my notice!

    I’m so relieved that I didn’t take the first offer that came my way. I felt a lot more comfortable with the people at both companies, and both of them offered significantly better compensation than the first one.

    Reply ↓
  37. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    I’m an admin who works at a front desk for a department in a university. I will be starting a certification course soon called PACE (professional Administrative Certificate of Excellence). I was awarded a University Staff Grant to pay for the training. It is asynchronous. My goal is to complete coursework starting in April and ending in August or September, before we get busy with the new academic year.

    Any suggestions for completing such a big course work? I’ve done smaller online courses but nothing like this. I’ve always been an over preparer, one to fill out schedules for each of my courses in college. But this feels different to me. I also am the main front desk person so I will need to set boundaries with my assistant and other coworkers to let them know that I might have to rely on them to cover so I can focus. Shouldn’t be a problem but I’m just an excited nervous ball of energy!

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Sorry, just to clarify: you’re going to be doing the coursework during your regular work hours? I think you’d need to block off specific time during the day / week to get it done somewhere away from the front desk, as I imagine a front desk job means you’re going to get constantly interrupted.

      When you say “big course work” what does that mean? I haven’t heard of this certification (I’m not American) so I don’t know how this differs from other courses, e.g. are there multiple courses you need to complete within the April-September period, is it one course but there are lots of projects, etc.

      Reply ↓
    2. JustaTech*

      When I did a semi-asynchronous online grad school (we had weekly assignments but you could watch the lectures and do the readings whenever), I invented a “class schedule” for myself so that I wouldn’t end up trying to do everything on the last day. I also worked hard to keep my weekends at least partly free so that I didn’t feel like I was working at work or school every day of the week with no break.

      So lean into those schedules! And if you don’t have interim due dates set by the course, invent some for yourself and then act like they were set by the course (with the flexibility to realize things like “I seriously overestimated/underestimated how long X would take”).

      Good luck and have fun!

      Reply ↓
  38. Baddie*

    I need some third part perspective because I’m feeling like one of the “baddies.”

    I’m a middle manager within a larger team. My sub-team does in-house work while the rest of the team is client facing. The bigger team has a pretty gossipy and complaint heavy culture. My people seemed to not be part of that until we went back to the office last January. I manage three people who all have been in their roles 2+ years. They were all solid performers but since RTO have been disengaged and argumentative about everything and it’s grating on me.

    While I’ve always erred on the side of being transparent and leading with empathy, I’m starting to wish the people I manage would quit. I can’t ask them to do something without a big discussion about if it’s in their job description or not. It started with RTO but once they realized I had no control, they moved on to many other complaints. They complain about pretty much everything (think: “the lunch you ordered for our retreat was subpar” and “I can’t do a meeting with you at 3 because I have a doctors appointment the next morning” followed by a long discussion about expectations). They’re also constantly discussing complaints of their teammates with me. I shut down the conversation because it’s out of my control, but they then complain that me not engaging is a sign of a toxic work culture. At least two have hinted they want to leave but can’t find other jobs. I desperately want them to.

    My current thinking is that my willingness to engage, discuss their likes and dislikes of our company and their roles, empathy and transparency used to work. Now that they are disengaged, it’s no longer working. They’re unhappy and driving me crazy.

    Am I the baddie? What do I do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      wow, my team was nowhere near this bad, but this sort of stuff built up and built up and was one of the reasons I left management. You are not a baddie.

      I grew tired people complaining about first world problems to me. One huge thing I saw was the unfortunate impact of social media. I believe a few were reading antiwork type stuff and it bled over into their attitude. Or they’d see “I make 200k and only have two hours of work a day” posts and it would bleed into their attitude, and they’d act like doing basic stuff was a big deal.

      I ended up being resentful because I had to deal with such s___ from crazy strict silent gen and early boomer managers back in the day, and in response I’d feel like I was shielding newer employees from stuff I hated, but not getting any appreciation for it

      Reply ↓
    2. Science KK*

      I may be overly harsh but I’d go with well, you keep bringing up so many things that make you unhappy, are you sure it makes sense for you to stay here?

      It doesn’t always work but it’s generally shocking enough to reduce the complaint volume.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      In this situation I’ve always done a bigger-picture conversation and asked if they still want to stay in the job. Like, “over the past three months, you’ve been bringing me a large number of concerns about things that I’d expect you to just roll with or resolve yourself. [examples] I want to be clear with you that these things aren’t going to change, and we can’t continue to spend time debating and discussing them. Of course, if you have concerns about things like [things you want them to bring you], definitely let me know. But I do need you to significantly rein in the complaints about everything else. Does that sound likes something you can live with?”

      And then if they say no – “ok, I understand and it’s totally ok if you feel this work environment isn’t working for you anymore. In that case the pathway forward would be to discuss a transition plan out of this role. I am happy to fully support you if that’s the direction you want to go in, with things like [spend up to 4 hours of work time a week looking for jobs, serving as a reference, sending job leads, supporting a long notice period to give them time to find something else, whatever else you can reasonably offer]. Do you want to take a couple days to think about that?”

      My one flag is could there be any legitimacy to the complaints about their teammates? As their manager you do have some responsibility to support and facilitate conflict resolution, and if they feel like you’re washing your hands of that responsibility, it could color their thinking that you’re too disengaged in other ways as well. But that very much depends on the specifics – like “I tried talking to Joe about missed deadlines 4 times and he’s still missing every one” is very different than “Joe showed up five minutes late for a role that doesn’t require coverage.”

      Reply ↓
      1. trying_not_to_be_evil_HR*

        I love this advice and if your company could handle their exits pretty well, I would do this.

        Another thing to consider in addition to/alongside this conversation is that attitude can be a genuine performance issue when it’s negatively impacting business outcomes. For example, “One of the requirements of this job is to collaborate with [coworker they’re complaining about] and constant negative conversation about them doesn’t support the necessary relationship our teams need for positive collaboration. If they are being belligerent, ignoring process, etc., of course we need to address that, but outside of bigger issues, I need you to keep your frustrations to yourself and speak to or about them with politeness and civility.”

        Reply ↓
    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I don’t think you’re the baddie, but I think there’s a difference between engaging and just being a sounding board. Like, complaints are annoying, but passively just listening to them and saying “It’s out of my control” probably isn’t helping. If they come with a complaint about a teammate, straight up ask them what it is they’d like to see happen. Some of it may be actionable, some of it might not be. If it’s genuinely out of your hands, it’s fine to just nip the complaining in the bud, e.g. “Fergus, we’ve talked about this three separate times now. I appreciate and understand the concerns, but unfortunately it’s not a problem I can solve. Let’s talk about some ways you can minimize how it impacts you” or whatever is appropriate.

      I assume they’re unhappy about RTO in general and, now that they see there’s no way out of it, are just moving that disappointment onto smaller things that they think they can control (or you can control).

      But, if you do want them to go, I always wonder what would happen if you called their bluff re: quitting? e.g. “Fergus, you’ve mentioned more than a few times now that you’d like to leave Company. Should we start working on a plan to transition you out?”

      Reply ↓
    5. Hyaline*

      Why is it that you have no control? I’m not trying to be combative, I’m curious–that feels like a really important part of the problem here. You’re their manager! What is in your control? Could you put them on a PIP? Are there performance evaluations, and are they tied to anything? Because a bad attitude or complaining is one thing, and it’s annoying and can be addressed, but they seem to also be actively resisting doing tasks as assigned (“I can’t ask them to do something without a big discussion about if it’s in their job description or not”) and that’s…not acceptable. You’re not, actually, responsible for their unhappiness–you don’t have to take that personally or feel you have to “solve” it if it’s petty junk like what lunch got ordered or they nitpick their coworkers.

      Reply ↓
  39. Man_Eating_Croc*

    Hi All – question to help my spouse at work. He’s been getting super frustrated due to a horrible coworker. They were always fine, though the other coworker was annoying, but the coworker turned on him. Basically, coworker (let’s call him Ted) has a history of being inappropriate at work and saying nasty things to other coworkers. When my spouse was working with Ted one day at the llama grooming facility, Ted was being nasty to another coworker and called her a fat, disgusting pig and told her she’s eating like a pig (this woman is pregnant). My spouse called Ted out and told him that’s not OK and to not speak to someone like that. Since then, Ted has been targeting my spouse and saying nasty things about him and making a hostile environment.

    My spouse has spoken to his manager about the environment and the problems Ted is creating, but now my spouse is getting blamed for being “a problem.” Some background on Ted, he regularly makes fun of people’s nationalities, such as mimicking the accent of a Chinese coworker in an offensive way (and other coworkers based on their nationalities). He chatters all day to himself about inappropriate work topics, such as bathroom related stuff, that everyone has to listen to because they’re in an open environment. Ted and a friend when on a long diatribe about not liking trans people. When a coworker complained about the offensive things they said about trans people, they were also deemed “a problem.”

    I guess my question is, any advice for my spouse on how to talk to his manager to highlight that maybe Ted is the problem? My spouse is nervous because he’s a cis, white, male, while Ted is not, so he feels like he can’t speak up on the racist and offensive things Ted says.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Can your husband go with the other coworkers that have been targeted by Ted to the manager or to HR? It sounds like he is harassing and discriminating against people based on protected class (pregnancy, nationality, race, and gender). If your husbands boss doesn’t want to listen I bet HR will because this could open the company up to liability for hostel workplace, especially if a manager knew about it and did nothing.

      Reply ↓
      1. Man_Eating_Croc*

        That’s a good idea for him and the other coworker to speak to the manager together. Thank you! I was thinking hostile work environment, but I wasn’t sure if that applied since my husband isn’t in a protected class.

        Reply ↓
        1. Nesprin*

          All classes are protected classes- if your husband is being harassed for being male, thats the same as being harassed for being female.

          Reply ↓
    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      He should absolutely speak up on the racist and offensive things Ted says. That’s using your privilege for good. Call him out on it, and every time it happens, bring it up to the boss. Even better if he can get multiple other people to do this. If they go to the boss together, it’s a lot harder to really say “you’re a troublemaker, Ted’s fine.” But if they do, your husband needs to find a new job ASAP because that job is protecting a really shitty missing stair.

      Reply ↓
      1. Man_Eating_Croc*

        I think you may be right about the missing stair. My husband is the most productive, completing almost double the amount of work that colleagues get done, but they seem to want to protect someone that’s kinda horrible. I think they’re worried about a potential lawsuit from Ted if they let him go.

        Reply ↓
    3. SuprisinglyADHD*

      It sounds like the problem is the manager(s?), not Ted. If anyone who complains about racism, transphobia, or sexism is told they’re a problem, but the person spewing hate is allowed to continue without any issue, then management is condoning (and encouraging) that behavior. Hopefully there’s someone above your husband’s manager that he can go to, or an actually competent HR. Being a minority shouldn’t mean Ted gets a free pass to create a work environment that might actually be a legal liability for the company.

      Reply ↓
      1. Man_Eating_Croc*

        Unfortunately it really probably is a manager problem. It’s a good job in the sense that the commute isn’t bad, hours are really good and he’s afforded a lot of flexibility so he can take time off when needed for kid related stuff, but maybe the bad is starting to outweigh the good.

        Reply ↓
    4. Hyaline*

      …why does the manager not already see that Ted is a problem?!? I can’t imagine how that’s happening unless the manager is completely disengaged, doesn’t believe anyone under his supervision (several people have complained about Ted!), or is displaying extraordinary favoritism toward Ted.

      If there’s any use in continuing with the manager, I might try documenting “a day in the life of working near Ted” where your spouse notes (with times) the inappropriate comments in a running log so that he has something closer to the reality to present to the manager instead of one-offs. (“9:07: Ted mimicked Joe’s accent.” “10:14: Ted called Wanda fat.”) It’s unlikely but possible that the manager is so clueless that he thinks these egregious examples that are brought to his attention are exaggerated–but a log would clear up that it’s habitual.

      But more likely, there is no use dealing with the manager, and your husband should go to HR with that log and a few of the more outstanding examples. Ted sounds like a field day for a harassment suit and HR will want to know about it.

      Your husband’s and Ted’s race, gender, orientation, etc do not matter here–the harassment and the people victimized by it do.

      Reply ↓
    5. HonorBox*

      This is something to escalate above the manager. It doesn’t matter that your husband is cis, white, and male. He not only can still be uncomfortable, but also not be retaliated against when he says something.

      HR or the boss’s boss is the way to go. What Ted is doing and saying is not only not OK, but also opening the company up to a lawsuit. The manager is complicit in this because they’re not putting a stop to Ted’s behaviors and they’re making the reporter of the behaviors the problem.

      Reply ↓
    6. Aggretsuko*

      The manager thinks your husband is the problem because your husband is speaking up. Manager has zero interest in doing anything about Ted. I don’t think there’s anything you can say to make the manager do something when they don’t want to, and especially when Ted and the manager are making your husband the problem :(

      Reply ↓
  40. oaktree*

    How are teens finding their first jobs these days? Mine has put in several online apps over the last couple of months and no bites.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hyaline*

      Leverage your network–ask around who is hiring for part time work, or who might need a babysitter or yard work or whatever your teen is interested (or able) to do. If you know someone with a restaurant, or a retail shop, or whatever, use those leads. And ask your teenager to use her network, too–if a friend has been working somewhere and proven to be a reliable employee, some places will be eager to hire her friend, knowing they’re probably equally reliable. I’ve known a lot of high schoolers to get jobs that way–sometimes places are reluctant to hire teens cold but when they come by way of “Jan’s neighbor” or “Susan’s niece” they’re more willing to take a risk on them. (FWIW I don’t think hiring teens is any riskier than adults–they’re often hard worker and responsible!–but the perception is there, so a reference helps.)

      Reply ↓
    2. WFH4VR*

      Target has a literal hiring desk in every store. Go to your local grocery stores and pizza places and McDonalds and ask. They won’t have websites. Does your town have a Youth Commission? Mine does and it offers things like babysitting certifications, and posts local jobs for teenagers.

      Reply ↓
    3. Glengarry Glenn Close*

      I have two teens w/jobs. One got hers through a friend of the family, the other got his by seeing a flyer in school and contacting them directly

      Reply ↓
  41. SuprisinglyADHD*

    Anyone have advice on supporting my mom with her work stress while also pointing out that the way she’s handling it (due to habits learned in several terrible workplaces) is making it waaay worse for her?
    Two years ago, my mom got a job in a functional, non-toxic workplace for the first time in her life. As an example of how bad her previous jobs were, she is over-the-moon giddy about things like “I’m not allowed to work unpaid overtime” “I’m not just encouraged but REQUIRED to use all my vacation days, especially during the holidays and right before busy season” and “when a client screamed at me till I cried, the boss reprimanded them AND the boss apologized to me AND made the screamer apologize too”. When I tell her those are normal things she doesn’t believe me because in 40+ years working at 4 different businesses she’s never experienced any of them.
    When she hits stressful times at work, she becomes unbelievably anxious, and is convinced that any delay or mistake she makes will put her job in jeopardy. So she hides mistakes. She will spend HOURS troubleshooting and getting more and more upset/frustrated, rather than asking a coworker to look at it to see if fresh eyes help. If she is spending “too long” on one client she’ll put some of those hours down to a different client. Once she spent half the week trying to fix an error that her boss found in 5 minutes when she finally went to him (it was a remnant of Boss’s error from the last time he worked on it).
    She comes home exhausted and burned out. I’m sympathetic to her, she has a (diagnosed, untreated) anxiety disorder that’s understandable considering what she’s been through. But how can I convince her that she needs to change her habits at work? She’s so terrified of letting her boss know when she’s struggling that she’s covering up actual problems with the work (because she thinks they’re her fault – usually they’re not anything she caused or could have found on her own). How can I convince her that her problems probably won’t get her fired, but HIDING them will? How can I help her accept that this boss might be disappointed or frustrated but he won’t scream at her, curse her out, or fire her without cause? She’s got an awesome job that she loves, I don’t want to see her lose it to bad habits.

    Reply ↓
    1. trying_not_to_be_evil_HR*

      Can you encourage her to have a conversation with her boss about how he would want her to handle hypothetical issues when she isn’t in the thick of things? It sounds like it would really help her to approach the conversation when it doesn’t feel so emotionally charged, bc right now she’s just relying on learned stress responses.

      If her boss is able to tell her *himself* what types of things he wants her to bring him and how he will handle it, she might be more willing to follow through.

      Also, I’d encourage YOU to remember that ultimately you can’t convince people to do anything. Your mom is her own person and an adult, and it’s not on you to fix this for her.

      Reply ↓
    2. Aggretsuko*

      If she’s spent decades in jobs where she had to hide that she was struggling, and got in trouble constantly, it’s going to be very hard to break that cycle in her brain.

      Therapy? Talking it out with the boss?

      Reply ↓
    3. ThatGirl*

      You can’t fix or her fix work for her. You can keep encouraging her to get help for her anxiety disorder, and maybe talk about your own work or experience with good bosses when it comes up. For instance “oh, man, I really screwed something up today, but I let my manager know right away and it was no big deal” kinda talk.

      Reply ↓
  42. CatMomto4Humanto1*

    So I have a dilemma. I interviewed yesterday for what I would consider a pretty darn good job for me. I’m looking to make a move because my current company is just too big. I hate the super corporate world.

    The new company is under 50 employees. Exactly what I like. The job, exactly what it sounds like. It would be perfect. Fit for me.

    The caveat? Their health insurance. While I’m ordinarily a very healthy person, and don’t really have to utilize medical care on a consistent basis, I do have a medication that I take that is necessary for my medical care.

    The new health insurance that they offer, does not cover this medication , unless I am a diabetic.
    I am not a diabetic.

    My current insurance at my current company does cover this medication with a prior authorization.

    If I had to purchase this medication on my own, it would be over $1000 a month for me to do. Which is not an option for me financially, even with the increase in Pay.

    What would you do in this situation? Would you take yourself out of the running for the job? Would you talk to them about possibly paying for this medication until you no longer need it?

    So many questions and looking for answers. Thanks.

    Reply ↓
    1. cloud*

      I wouldn’t discuss the medication with them; it’s unlikely they’ll be able to change the insurance to include this, and asking for them to cover the cost doesn’t guarantee anything. It also invites them into your health decisions in a way that feels uncomfortable. The only real option I see is negotiating a higher salary that would cover the out of pocket cost of the medication.

      Don’t take yourself out of the running at this stage since you don’t know exactly what an offer would look like. But if the salary isn’t high enough to cover the meds you need and they won’t budge, then unfortunately I think you’ll need to turn it down. Keep looking though, this particular company not having the insurance you need doesn’t mean that will be the case everywhere.

      Reply ↓
    2. Alex*

      I think I would probably wait to see if I were offered the job, and then present the problem to them to see what they say. Maybe they could give you even more pay? an extra $1000 a month would probably keep me from accepting the job, and if so I would let them know why.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      Can you talk to your health care team? They’re often familiar with the ins and outs of different insurance plans and what they will or will not cover. They may also be familiar with different purchasing options.

      Reply ↓
      1. CatMomto4Humanto1*

        Unfortunately, not. This is the only medication out there that I can have for this issue.
        And I agree, I don’t necessarily want to discuss it with them, but, I don’t really see how I could not to discuss it with them. I would need a minimum of an extra thousand dollars a month. I can’t imagine them going up $12,000 in a salary after they offer me the first offer. I just can’t.

        Reply ↓
        1. Medical Librarian*

          This might be worth discussing with your pharmacist just in case there’s a program that offers a discounted price when insurance doesn’t cover a medication. In our case, my husband has one medication that would be about $1300 per month out of pocket except that he qualifies for a discount program through the pharmaceutical company that means we pay $24 a month.

          Reply ↓
        3. Ellis Bell*

          This relies heavily on the details, of the whole health insurance packet being poor as opposed to having an obscure gap, but could you say you’re concerned about the health insurance plan overall, rather than specifying that you need a particular medication? As in, “I was really interested in the salary, until I got a look at the benefits package. Unfortunately my current company offers a more valuable overall deal. I would need an extra x amount to cover the difference. Given that, does it make sense to continue talking?”

          Reply ↓
  43. Peeved Prof*

    What should I do differently to up and side manage?

    I’m an academic, and I work on several projects with researchers at my level or above me in the university hierarchy. Across most of my projects, I have issues with getting colleagues to follow through on deliverables we’ve agreed on, answering emails, or cancelling meetings at the last minute. Usually, the reason given is that they’re very busy and another deadline came up. This is frustrating to me, because of course I have other deadlines too, but I try my best to do what I said I would, or communicate ahead of time that it won’t happen and to work out an alternative.

    This issue has happened with multiple colleagues and on projects that I am leading or that they are leading. If they are leading, the work of scheduling, admin followup, managing students, and otherwise making sure the project can move forward usually also falls to me. These colleagues are generally productive and successful, so it seems like less of a follow through issue holistically and more on my end.

    To mitigate, I’ve tried several things: email only followups, regularly scheduled meetings, and working meetings. If I email, I typically include specific, bullet pointed asks with my requested follow up date. If we meet, I conclude with “next meeting, I plan to have X done“ and ask my colleagues to do the same. And yet! Multiple projects are stalled, or would be stalled if I didn’t put in the time. Because I imagine some might want the info, I am not White and have a femme appearance.

    Short of dropping the projects, which is not always possible, is there anything I can do to better up or side manage these colleagues to get the work done that we agreed on?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Some of this is likely just the nature of the work. But other things you could try:
      – Following up before the deadline is missed to remind them of it – like “we agreed X would be done by noon tomorrow – are you still on track with that?”
      – Communicating why the deadline matters in business terms. If they have other projects they’re juggling, they may need that context from you to understand how to prioritize – so not just “next meeting, I plan to have X done” – but “next meeting, we need to have X, Y and Z done so we don’t have to delay things with [other department], which we know adds 10% to the cost of the project. can you commit to bringing Y?” or whatever makes sense in your context.
      – If you have closer professional relationships with them, appealing to them on a personal level – like “these projects tend to get delayed, and I’m worried it’ll look like I can’t keep things on track. Could you do me a solid and make sure you meet the deadline on this?”
      – Phone calls shortly after the deadline is missed.

      Reply ↓
    2. Goddess47*

      If the delays affect project deliverables or funding from external resources, pick your battle but go over their heads. Even if they are higher up than you are, a frank discussion with their supervisor could be useful. Make it outcome based. “The delay in receiving information from Professor X will make the institution ineligible for a grant of $Y.”

      And/or have a semi-public project list that you share with everyone. So that you have dates and deadlines listed so that others can see it. Maybe Professor X will notice more if he/she knows that everyone on the project will see that they are not doing what they promised to do.

      But without outside pressure, or constant nagging in multiple forms, you probably don’t have a lot of options.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  44. Science KK*

    I’ve commented/posted before about my coworker Alice and have a couple updates so I figured might as well write them out.

    Last Friday our project lead and manager were discussing Alice, and apparently she’s started dropping things on the admin side of her job too.

    I brought my previous concerns up to the PM and manager based on how she acted in our last project (disappearing for hours, saying she’ll make up work over the weekend & not following through, etc). They decided to escalate to our big boss, who’s now working on a timeline of everything since this started about a year ago now. And while this was all happening in the background, she dropped another, major ball: she was tasked with planning a big part of our next experiments by Tuesday this week. She arrived to work Tuesday and said sorry I didn’t do it I was too busy. Never told anyone her schedule or what else she had going on, just too bad so sad I was busy.

    I’m torn because I know her on going medical issues and family problems aren’t her fault, but then she says/does things like this and I’m like, seriously?! She’s also been increasingly agitated in general, short, snappy, upset. She even looks upset when she’s sitting at her desk.

    I’m trying to be grateful it’s now been passed off to the higher ups and focusing on my own personal issues.

    Reply ↓
    1. Science KK*

      My nana (maternal grandmother) was placed into hospice this week after losing the ability to speak and shallow. They think she’s losing that part of her brain to dementia, so now it’s just a matter of when she decides it’s time to go. Thankfully I’m doing solo computer work almost exclusively so I can just put my headphones on listen to my audiobook and not have to people too much.

      Reply ↓
  45. Paint N Drip*

    Looking for any advice or perspective on how to sell a career trajectory/shift that doesn’t have a strong story, especially for any neurodivergent pals. There are so many circumstances that career shift stories make sense – graduating with a new degree, coming back into the workforce after caretaking or illness, retiring from an intense career like firefighting or military, shifting to a similar field when yours is FUBAR (ex: feds right now), etc. My story is not compelling, and I am extremely worried how to ‘spin’ my situation without blatantly making me look like a risky hire.

    I was a high-achieving kid and burned out getting my undergrad degree; I’ve been under-employed in basic operations/admin work for 12 years while struggling with getting my feet under me (“adulting”). I got some healthcare and diagnoses, cared for myself, built my support system, and worked on non-job stuff like art and community – now I’m at a point where I feel like I can take on more, maybe move up into a higher-level admin position or shift to a new direction entirely. Currently I work in a tiny business that cannot change my job responsibilities or move into a different job, so it seems to me getting a new job is my only real choice for change. I don’t even have a specific idea of my next job, just knowing my strengths/dealbreakers and a nebulous feeling of wanting growth. My resume shows someone who sticks around (staying at jobs 5y, 7y) but not any career growth. Because I don’t have any ‘markers’ of change, I simply don’t know how to frame/market this shift, and my self-worth around someone seeing me as worthy to take a chance on is frankly pretty low. I have this fear that any interview that pokes into ‘why do you want this job/want to make a change’ will end up with me basically saying ‘I’m ready to grow up now, I swear’

    Also if anyone has any recommendations for a neurodiverse-friendly line of work that might align with an admin background, please feel free to share. I need all the help I can get, y’all

    Reply ↓
    1. Goddess47*

      You can lean into your previous health problems, if you want.

      “I had some minor health problems that I spent a lot of time getting diagnosed and treated. Now that the health problems have been resolved, I’m ready and able to take on new and expanded responsibilities.”

      You have no obligation to tell them more than that about your health problems. If there’s any pushback, just say, “Oh. That’s behind me and I’m working to not dwell on it any more.”

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    2. Em from CT*

      Interestingly, from what you’ve written here, I don’t actually see indicators that you’re changing your career, just that you’re changing jobs! Which is pretty normal! (I don’t mean imply that you’re, you know, not actually shifting careers—just that it seems more theoretical than actual at this point, in that you’d like to but aren’t sure yet where to go. Which maybe means this is borrowing future trouble and you can worry about this once you have an actual endpoint in mind?

      That said—one of the things I think I’ve heard Alison recommend here a lot is that you’re “looking to take on new challenges,” or phrasing like that. After 5 or 7 years in a role, I don’t think people would bat an eye at that idea! If I were hiring, and you said, “well, I’ve done a lot and learned a lot in this role, and now I’m looking to try my hand at new challenges,” I’d say, “okay, makes sense!” I can’t at all imagine turning the question back on you and saying “Wait, but why are you deciding this now rather than three years ago?” or whatever. People’s lives have different paces; if you’ve decided now is a time for a change, there’s nothing unusual or wrong about that at all.

      Again, this may be me projecting my own issues here ;) but you’re saying “I’m ready to grow up now, I swear!” as if people are looking at your resume and saying “Wow, this person never grew up!” Which… is probably not happening. Maybe that’s what your brain is saying to you, or maybe that’s a message you’re getting from your family (certainly sounds like something a lot of people’s families would say) but… it’s probably not what hiring managers are thinking. I don’t know if that helps, but I’ve often found that changing my own narrative about things really helps.

      Reply ↓
    3. WellRed*

      You’re overthinking this a bit. People move in to new jobs for all kinds of reasons. This notion of “markers of change” isn’t really a thing, especially as you get further out of school. You’re looking for new opportunities or, more specifically in your case, room to grow or advance or seeking new challenges because there’s no opportunity to do that in your current company. That’s very very normal and common.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hlao-roo*

      I think you can say something along the lines of “I’ve enjoyed admin work but now I am ready to switch to a field with more growth potential.”

      Once you’ve identified fields to apply to, you can add on to that: “I’ve enjoyed admin work but now I am ready to switch to [field name] for more growth potential and [other positive things about that field].”

      You know your whole story, so to you this may feel a little to obviously like “I was a high achieving kid, then I burnt out and couldn’t handle a ~real~ adult job, but now I am ready to be a full-time grown-up!” Hiring managers and interviewers won’t know all of that! They don’t know what you were like as a child, they don’t know why you chose to go into (and then stay in) admin/basic operations work. And “after 12 years of holding down steady jobs, I want career growth” is a very understandable reason for a career shift!

      Reply ↓
    5. Hyaline*

      What everyone else said! With your resume, I would think “ready for a new challenge” “looking for growth opportunities” “ready to take what I’ve learned and apply it in a more challenging position” all make TOTAL sense.

      That said–it seems like one of your hangups may be knowing what kinds of jobs to apply to. I wonder if a session with a career counselor or coach would make sense? Not to give you a straightforward path, necessarily, but to kind of help you suss out what kinds of roles with what kinds of employers/in what fields might make sense to explore, and how to parlay your experience in different fields.

      Reply ↓
    6. Ellis Bell*

      You don’t have to do any of that. Just tell them what parts of the job you’re excited about potentially doing, and why.

      Reply ↓
  46. Green Goose*

    There is a role opening up on my team. I work on a team that attracts a lot of applications and interest. It’s a corporate role that is normally only offered at a nonprofit so the salary will be higher than 80-90% of similar roles. For example, I’m making $20k more annually now than I was at my old nonprofit and I took two steps down in title.
    The huge catch of the job is the boss, they are rude and dismissive and unfortunately they are the job. They are disorganized, not self aware, change their mind often and talk to me like I’m an intern and then there are spouts of random friendliness which are unnerving. You never know who you are going to get moment to moment. Seriously, the only thing that is stressful about the job is not the work, it’s working for this boss.
    I know there will be a lot of interest in this role once it goes live and I’m a little apprehensive about what to say about it. I already had a quick conversation with an internal person about it. Here’s the thing, I’m not 100% confident that what I say won’t get back to my boss so I want to walk the line of not misleading applicants but also not putting myself in a vulnerable situation if a person gets hired and then repeats to my boss what I said. The internal person I spoke with is someone I wouldn’t mind working with but I don’t feel that I could be as transparent with them until I know them better. It felt a little damned if I did, damned if I didn’t.
    Also, because the money is a lot better I don’t want to dissuade people who might actually not be as bothered as I am of my bosses’ boorishness. Some people are like Teflon, but I’m not.

    Any advice for how to talk about the role with people that may repeat everything I say?

    Reply ↓
  47. Head Sheep Counter*

    Given the last number of posts, I’m curious what folks feel is the level of polite/rule-following/cultural norms they owe their colleagues.

    Do we need to be pleasant?
    Do we need to be aware of baseline norms (masturbation, cleanliness, respectful behavior etc)?
    Do we need to comply with company policies/rules?
    Does working for a company confer some need for the company to change to meet our needs (beyond ADA or other agreed upon accommodations)?

    In reading comments lately, I’ve felt like I’m out of step with my baseline (be polite, be aware of norms, generally follow non-harmful rules, that the company holds my paycheck and part of the agreement to acquire said paycheck is to do my job the way they want… even if I hope or work to change things).

    Reply ↓
    1. Wellie*

      This is a comment section that loves the mic-drop moment. I would be cautious taking some of the sassier responses are a baseline for how to behave in the workplace. I think your baseline is appropriate.

      And definitely don’t jack it in the john at work.

      Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Which way are you out of step? Are you breaking any of those, or do you feel like you are doing much more than the norms?

      I am concerned that you wrote ‘be pleasant’. Because that’s not just for work; it’s a thing for society in general. If you scowl and sneer at the Starbucks cashier, the plumber, and your neighbors, not to mention your coworkers, then I think you’ve got a problem.

      But maybe the way you’ve been taught to think about ‘pleasant’ isn’t right. Pleasant doesn’t mean obsequious, or chipper, or smiling all the time. It just means “don’t inflect unhappiness on others for no reason”.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        Agreed. There’s a difference between, “Don’t ruin people’s day because you are not having a good one,” and “keep sweet and don’t make direct eye contact with the office silverbacks.”

        Reply ↓
      2. Head Sheep Counter*

        I strive for neutral/pleasant interactions with my colleagues and am considered a bit aloof. I don’t see that as a huge issue as I don’t owe friendship… but if it became read as more than aloof I’d want to know and would try to reflect on what led me to being frosty.

        What struck me were the comments on the injection thread and sometime ago on the “bless you/excuse you” discussion. Generally, I’m dumbfounded that folks don’t toss out polite excuse me’s. But I was also dumbfounded that folks needed to be trained to wash their hands in the loo… so my bar is… different than some.

        I think the masturbation one was less… controversial but the amount of castigation to the other members of the commenters about confessing that they too had had a private (one hopes) moment… was interesting. Because I swear we’ve loads of letters about sex in the office and other wildly inappropriate coupling/flirting. So is it really an outlier that someone has bopped the bishop or rubbed the nub?

        Reply ↓
    3. spcepickle*

      I was just having this convo with a friend. One of the guys I used to work closely with (we both manage our own department but our departments do a lot of resource sharing) made me really mad in December. I have been avoiding him since, the other day he called me out on it and told me he noticed I had been avoiding him and wanted to know why. My question is what do I owe him? I have to (and have been) talk to him about direct work things, like our shared building maintenance, our project overlap, and when our teams need to work together. But do I owe telling him what he did to piss me off and do I owe him a chance to change? What counts as pleasant and what counts as respectful?

      Reply ↓
      1. Wellie*

        Holding a grudge in the workplace is not going to work out long term. Socially, you can break up with your friends, but in a workplace, you are stuck with each other.
        I guess it depends on what he did to piss you off. Most of the time, you have to move past it and continue being collegial. Most work stuff is not personal, so separate the work from the person.

        Reply ↓
      2. Head Sheep Counter*

        I’m with @Wellie on this. Can he fix the problem or was it inherent to his personality? If he can fix it, a conversation is worth it. If he can’t, finding a way to be neutral is good to strive for.

        For me this looks like – a bland face (deliberately so) eg no sneering, eyebrows or ugh faces. For responses, I stick to what is asked and provide input/deliverables in a matter of fact sort of way. For team work, that’s harder as it requires more interactions. But in all interactions I strive for bland and professional.

        Reply ↓
      3. Ellis Bell*

        You don’t need to do the whole friendship ritual of clearing the air and achieving real forgiveness, but you probably do need to move on enough to be able to wish him a nice weekend.

        Reply ↓
    4. Amber Rose*

      I’m taking an entire class on this right now. The short answer is that for a company to have a strong and effective culture, they need to tailor their approach to the individual cultures of the people working there. For example, pleasantness/courtesy is expected, but it’s not universal. What happens when someone from a culture where eye contact is rude encounters someone from a culture where not making eye contact is rude? How about handshakes against cultures that dislike touching? How about standards of polite speech? There’s some Nigerian and African folks in my class who are new here and really struggling to communicate well with Canadians.

      And then you start looking into community cultures and familial cultures and how cultures change other cultures and it’s honestly a far more complex and nuanced issue than people like to believe.

      Reply ↓
      1. Head Sheep Counter*

        Culture is super interesting and more involved. Changing culture always feels like a lot of touchy feely exercises that I have a challenge navigating with sincerity but if management is modeling and engaged it reads better (and is the only way it can change).

        I was thinking about what I as an individual owe.

        I think my social contract is to be polite and responsive to the existing culture (hopefully its not a black hole of despair). I generally feel that I work for the company and only in small things around the edges does the company “work” for me.

        Reply ↓
    5. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Pleasant? Yes, as in “not actively hostile or fostering a culture of negativity; approach normal work conflict and challenges constructively.” You don’t need to be aggressively sunny and positive about everything, nor do you need to be endlessly “pleasant” to someone who is crossing lines like harassment.

      Baseline norms? My standard for this is “what would a generally reasonable person think.” Like the masturbation example this week was egregiously bad. Respectful behavior – same standard as “pleasantness” above. Cleanliness – “meet work-requirement-based standards” – yes. “Don’t leave dirty dishes on your desk, take stuff out of the fridge at the end of the week and wash your hands after using the bathroom” – yes. “Lysol every surface immediately after touching” – probably not realistic.

      Compliance with company policy/rules – depends on culture, manager and consequences. As a high-level mid manager I’ve ignored policies when I’ve been certain it’s the right business move, but asking for permission would have been a costly and lengthy process. I think reasonable people especially at the senior level with a track record of good judgement should be given significant leeway on this when it’s low-medium stakes.

      Need for company to change to meet our needs: It’s not that the company HAS to, it’s that it’s very much in the interests of the company to do so. Shutting down dissent is a pretty much guaranteed way to lose your superstars. of course this relies on employees having good judgement on what to bring up, but if you have one staff member who’s demanding change on things they don’t have context for, a good manager would address that individually – not shut down dissent holistically. Transparent conversations between individual contributors and management about pain points are also one of the best ways to build mutual understanding across levels in the company, investment in each others’ goals, and stronger work products overall.

      Reply ↓
    6. Ellis Bell*

      I feel like the answer to all these questions is really obviously yes. I haven’t seen any commentary on here lately that tilted against the necessity of such basics.

      Reply ↓
      1. Head Sheep Counter*

        Did you see the stuff on injections in front of a client? It was… interesting. I particularly found the – your phobia which results in unconsciousness is a you problem and I don’t have make any one second adjustments for you – to be at best unkind. Given how prevalent needle phobias are and how low the ask was (an excuse me).

        The uptick in socially inappropriate letters (I see you masterbator, porn screenshot, non-eating “hangry” employee, dog scheduler issues, visibly crabby at work social events… and that’s just this week) might be an outlier but it had me scratching my heads.

        There have been other things that had me questioning if I was just too busy politely grabbing my non-existent pearls or if there’s been some shift.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ellis Bell*

          Hmm, I didn’t read any of those injections comments to have that meaning. It’s not that phobias are not important, it’s that they are of equal standing to a medical need. I read a lot of people talking about how they would navigate it as competing accommodations (like turning away from a person with a phobia). I don’t think I’ve seen an uptick in outrageous letters tbh. I have depended on those for entertainment for years. Do you remember the guy who pooped in the potted plant?

          Reply ↓
  48. Call Me Wheels*

    How much do you spend on work clothes in a year on average?

    I’m working on my personal budget now I am getting settled into my first job and I think it would be helpful to set aside a little for things like if I need to replace some work clothes and was curious if other people budget for this and how much?

    Also, I only have 2 shirts and 2 trousers and 2 jumpers and 1 pair of shoes I wear to work. I worry this is obvious and people might judge me for not having more clothes, but is this likely or are they probably not paying that much attention / would understand if I have just started work I haven’t built up much of a wardrobe yet?

    Reply ↓
    1. Pam Adams*

      I don’t spwnd much. My slacks are all black and interchangeable- I recently bought a few pairs. Shirts, luckily, are work-provided. I switch between polo’s and campus branded t-shirts.

      Reply ↓
    2. Anon for This*

      Where I work, a lot of the women put their money into jackets – good quality that will last – and pair them with neutral pants/shirts. So when that gold print blazer goes on sale, grab it, wear it with black pants/shirt. Thrift stores are also good for sharp jackets/sweaters, etc. The rest, as long as it doesn’t scream cheap (no shiny polyester), can be very low cost. Over time you will gather a nice collection and always look professional.

      Reply ↓
    3. Wellie*

      I shop for work trousers at secondhand stores. My goal is 6 pairs of trousers that fit so I can rotate without getting into “It’s Tuesday, must be green trousers day” territory. Shopping second hand takes more time, but for me, the cost outweighs the hassle. I end up needing a new pair about every 6 months bc that’s how long it takes for me to grow out of a pair.

      I wear only solid color t-shirts in good condition, mostly black, which I buy at places like Target or The Gap. I try to always have 5-6 that are in good enough condition to wear to work at all times, which ends up meaning I buy 1-2 per year. Since I need both short sleeves for summer and long sleeves for winter, that is 3-4 tshirts per year.

      People have definitely noticed that you wear the same two shirts and same two pants, but that doesn’t mean they are judging. It’s probably just something about you that is basically background noise.

      Reply ↓
    4. WFH4VR*

      I’d say you can get away with the two pairs of pants, but you should have at least four shirts, if not five. Even if you only like two colors, have three different white ones and two different blue ones. People tend to notice only what you’re wearing on your top half, so it is better to have some variation with shirts and sweaters or vests. Having two pair of identical black pants is fine.

      Reply ↓
    5. Antilles*

      I’d guesstimate that early in my career I probably spent a couple hundred bucks a year for the first couple years to build up a nice stockpile of clothes. Then since, it’s basically just an intermittent thing whenever I need/want some more options or something starts looking iffy or etc.
      That said, the cost very much depends on how dressy your “work clothes” need to be. If it’s a relatively formal dress shirt and slacks, it’s going to be more expensive than if you can go business casual with stuff like khakis and polos or even more casual like jeans.
      In terms of building up a wardrobe, I’d first prioritize getting more shirts. Wearing the same shirt every other day is much more noticeable than pants. One option here is to buy some cheap stop-gap options from a place like Walmart or Target to tide you over for a few months until you can buy better stuff.

      Reply ↓
    6. cmdrspacebabe*

      I don’t think you need to worry about re-wearing the same clothes a lot, as long as the clothes are in line with the general vibe of your office. Unless they’re super distinctive (like if the 2 shirts both have extremely loud patterns), it’s probably not even registering. I’m very observant about that kind of thing and I do *notice* if someone wears the same distinctive item/type of outfit regularly, but it’s a neutral-to-positive observation, never a negative. I have a distinctive shirt I wear once a week or so and I always get a “Yes, that shirt again, I love that one!” Getting a lot of use out of things is good!

      So, if I were you, I wouldn’t prioritize filling up my closet – I would go for quality over quantity as much as possible. Keep an eye out for strong pieces as ‘outer’ clothes, especially good pants, over-shirts, blazers, etc. – higher-end consignment shops are great for this. Then grab a bulk pack of cheap t-shirts to wear underneath the good stuff and keep the oil/sweat off, so they’ll need less washing and last longer. It’ll be a slower process than stocking up on cheap items – and you might need to start cheap to tide you over if your closet’s empty now – but I’ve developed a really distinctive wardrobe this way, and I very rarely need to shop for new stuff now that it’s established (which means I unfortunately have no budget advice lol).

      Reply ↓
    7. Yes And*

      One thing I have learned the hard way is that the more often you wear the same articles of clothing, the more frequently you have to replace them. Either way the cost of clothing winds up being about the same – it’s just a question of how you space it out.

      Reply ↓
  49. Chaos Ensues*

    How do you work through particularly chaotic times at work?

    My workplace is going through some serious changes – think major changes in leadership, financial issues, and so on. I am not even joking when I say that it seems as though everyone in leadership has lost their minds. Many people have been placed in roles they are simply not qualified for.

    On top of that, my team has been told we will be reorging and some people potentially could be losing their jobs. The timing keeps changing for the reorg, so many people (myself included) are job hunting.

    I am doing my best to stay out of the drama. I wasnt particularly happy with my job anyway, so it may be a blessing in disguise. I am doing my best to keep my head down and focus on getting outta here.

    Reply ↓
    1. trying_not_to_be_evil_HR*

      I think it helps to have a clear plan for each day/week and stick to it. And, since you’re job hunting, also make sure you write down whenever possible specifically what you accomplished and its impact. The more clarity, direction, and structure you can make for yourself, the better in a chaotic environment.

      Reply ↓
  50. Jules the First*

    Just need a little vent and some internet hugs. I’m halfway through performance review season, working my way through seventeen reports and navigating my own review. Most of my team are rockstars knocking it out of the park but I also have four really rough ones where I have to tell people they’re really not shining in their role, including one that is probably going to end in termination and man, this part of managing people really sucks.

    Reply ↓
    1. spcepickle*

      Hugs to you – This part of managing does really suck! I am working with a person right now who is so nice and trying so hard and just not succeeding . It is the pits to do the formal review process with her where we have to memorialize her failure.
      Kuddos to you for being upfront with people and having the hard conversations, that means you are knocking it out of the park!

      Reply ↓
  51. JSPA*

    For those who still use skype, those with a paid skype service (like a skype-in number) just got notification that skype is being discontinued.

    Existing subscriptions and automatic top-ups will continue to automatically renew until April 3, 2025, and will continue until the end of that subscription period. If you have a skype-in phone number, you are to ask a new provider to “port” it. SMS ends May 5, regardless.

    So… has anyone successfully ported a skype number? Especially to another web based / VOIP service that definitely works internationally?

    Microsoft has (IMO) incrementally made skype worse, more bloated and less functional with every update since they first aquired it in 2011. I won’t mourn the morass it’s become. And I only really use it every couple of weeks, at most. But my skype number is on far too much paperwork to track down by my subscription end date.

    I would strongly prefer nothing owned by microsoft, alphabet, meta, amazon. A small european-based stand alone, like skype once was, hewing to european privacy laws would be ideal.

    Reply ↓
    1. Workerbee*

      I can’t speak to porting a Skype number, but I can say that I use the Signal app internationally, plus it allows for groups. Plus, privacy!

      Reply ↓
  52. FedAnon*

    Fed worker just here to commiserate. We survived another week, y’all. Or some of us did, I guess. I wonder if I’ll still have a job on Monday! How is everyone else holding up?

    Reply ↓
    1. Fed up to here*

      congratulations on surviving another week! one thing I’m doing to make myself feel better is using the 5 calls app to call my representatives and advocate for change. every time I feel helpless or overwhelmed, I make another call after duty hours that day. not sure how useful it is but it’s at least making me feel like I’m doing something.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jessica Ganschen*

      Well, I’m one of the ones that got fired, so not that great. The one bright spot is that Mondays are my in-office days, so I got to take all of my stuff with me and talk to a few coworkers before I dropped my PIV on the front desk and left. Took the next couple days to mope and then started applying to as many jobs as possible. I’m hoping that having a healthcare-adjacent position with the VA on my resume, even though it was only 4 months, might give me a tiny leg up when applying to the local hospitals.

      Reply ↓
    3. Bonkers*

      Spouse of a fed here! I’m spending a ton of time reading up on RIF procedures, and worrying about how sharply to cut back on expenses if my spouse gets terminated (does my oldest need to stop therapy? Should we pull the baby out of daycare, even though infant spots are hard to find?). I know I should just put it out of my mind for now, but that is REALLY hard.

      Reply ↓
      1. Momma Bear*

        I’d keep the daycare slot if you can afford to – it’s hard to get back in and good childcare is worth gold. But I think a lot of us are looking at cutting back on less necessary things – dropping streaming services, changing ISPs, etc. I’d start there.

        Reply ↓
  53. fka Get Me Out of Here*

    Question for the audience – a former coworker and good friend just told me that his position was eliminated while he was out on medical leave and that he’ll be unemployed on March 7. If he was on FMLA (he’d been there longer than a year), they’re not allowed to do that, right? Even if it’s part of a larger restructuring?

    Reply ↓
    1. Lifelong student*

      This came up when a place I was working at had to have a RIF due to changes in funding. We checked with our attorney and were told that it was allowed under those circumstances.

      Reply ↓
    2. spcepickle*

      You can let someone go while on FMLA, you just can’t let someone go because they are on FMLA. Most places don’t because the documentation gets tricky but as long as your can clearly show that the position is being eliminated and it is not about the person it is allowed.

      Reply ↓
  54. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

    Ugh.

    If I may vent:

    My stalker (among other things) got out of prison last Friday after decades. My nerves are absolutely shot; going out in public unescorted has resulted in debilitating panic attacks. Fortunately, I am WFH and this has enabled me to continue with strong, if not entirely unaffected, performance. (Thank heaven and Sam Gompers for the mute button and early outs! I am working closely with my therapist, who feels that forcing things would do more long-term harm than good at this time.)

    But next week is the in-office “employee appreciation day,” and you would NOT believe the hoops I had to jump through with HR to say “I need to pass on the mandatory fun this year, thanks all the same.” I feel like there’s a mismatch between the stated goal of making employees feel appreciated and whatever they were actually hoping to accomplish. It’s beginning to feel a lot like Strexmas… I get that they had a problem with gift bags not being picked up and that’s annoying. It still makes my ears go up around my shoulders that we can’t say, “We feel appreciated enough, go ahead and donate the t-shirt of you can’t mail it, thanks!”

    Sorry, just had to grumble. Everything’s fine now, but I love my company and this sort of thing is so very much not like them. I know EVERYTHING’S ON FIRE right now and I am deeply blessed to have such a trivial problem compared to everyone…

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      That sounds like a *very legitimate* thing to be worried about! I’m so sorry. Have you taken steps to inform your workplace about potential stalker issues? I don’t have the list on me but I know Alison has covered it in the past. Check to make sure your face isn’t on the website, locked down communications, etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        Past posts with some information on this topic are:

        “I think my coworker may be stalking me” from March 6, 2012

        “receiving calls from a coworker’s stalker” from March 14, 2012

        “how do I handle changing my name and job because of a stalker?” from June 19, 2018

        “dealing with domestic abuse in the workplace” from July 11, 2022 (not directly about stalking, but some of the things a workplace can do to help with an abusive partner or ex overlap with ways they can help deal with a stalker)

        I’ll post the links in a reply.

        Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      I’m sorry. Once you’re past this, maybe you can talk with your boss (if they’re supportive) or someone else who might have HR’s ear about your frustration with getting so much pushback, including the part where it felt really out of character with the usual culture?

      Reply ↓
  55. Corgeous*

    I’ve left a really toxic job, and I’m struggling with the new one because people are so…nice and normal?

    My brain is having a hard time catching up. I keep thinking I’ll have to go back to my old job. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I don’t understand where I am sometimes. I keep telling myself my old boss can’t hurt me anymore but it’s like I just don’t get it.

    Any advice? Anyone else been through something similar? I can’t currently afford therapy though I really wish I could.

    Reply ↓
    1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

      Oof. Been there. No advice, but reading the comments on Ask a Manager posts really helped. ALL the Ask a Manager posts. Just… hearing people witness the toxicity and say, WTF? That’s not okay. Here’s a better way to handle it… felt like being released from a coffin made of pokey underwires.

      Congratulations! ALL THE HAPPY GIFS. You’re FREE!

      Reply ↓
  56. Retail Dalliance*

    I have a day-long “professional development” day on Friday April 25. It’s 100% mandatory, no one can use time off on this date (it’s blacked out). It’s 8 hours of meetings, reading reports, writing reports…the most boring and useless activities that imho truly benefit no one (including the institution).

    I tend to just silently rage through these days. They’re such enormous wastes of time, the seating is uncomfortable, the presentations are boring and irrelevant to my career…but raging is not productive and I don’t think it’s healthy. How can I survive this mandatory day of presentations and meetings and data without losing my mind? I need coping mechanisms that won’t get me fired :D

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      By attending, you are doing your part to ensure that the organization passes audits, gets good PR, whatever. Therefore ensuring that you and your coworkers still have jobs.

      And if it helps, do the David Attenborough nature documentary voice-over in your head.

      Reply ↓
    2. :)*

      Can you make a personal bingo board and see how long it takes to make bingo? It could either be eye-rolling stuff if you want to lean into hating the day OR (my recommendation) more positive things like “Met a cool new coworker” “Learned something new about X process” “Had a surprisingly good pastry at the breakout room snack buffet” etc. Bonus points if you have a coworker you can secretly collaborate on this with.

      Reply ↓
    3. spcepickle*

      How often do you need to be in the actual room? I am attending a 3 day management conference next week. I do like to go because of the social connections I can make and the work talk that happens outside of scheduled classes. But the classes are really bad and not applicable to me. So normally I will go to the start and then slip out of the big conference room and find a little space to do work email or read an ask a manager on my phone. This only works if your group is big enough.
      If not I pick something that needs thoughts and start to plan it – your next vacation, think about dates, make packing list, outline budgets. A home reno start to jot down notes, make sketches. A fun craft project lay it out, make a list of materials. Anything that looks kind of like you are taking notes but takes some brain action is good.

      Reply ↓
  57. Garlic Microwaver*

    Is there any law against serving up divorce papers on school grounds? A friend of mine, whose child is in elementary school with my child, is going through a divorce. The other day, her ex was standing on the campus at drop off, with papers in his hand, not interacting with anyone else, and making others uncomfortbale. The police officer who patrols campus went to talk to him and he said he was there to serve “his wife” papers. Then when she arrived, he handed her the paper and they exchanged no words. If not illegal, purely unethical idiocy, right?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Handing his soon-to-be ex-wife some papers is not the same thing as process serving. In most jurisdictions, you are legally required to use third-party process servers for divorce.

      Reply ↓
    2. Reba*

      I had thought that papers have to be delivered by someone NOT a party to the case or petition, i.e. a process server – I am very much NAL though.

      Regardless of legality it does seem needlessly dramatic.

      Reply ↓
    3. HonorBox*

      I’ve done a fair amount of stretching before these mental gymnastics…don’t worry. But I suppose a neutral way of looking at it is that the school is a place that he knows for sure she’d be. Also a public place where others could see that there’s no negative interaction.

      Reply ↓
    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      What part of it do you think is unethical?

      I agree with others that might be a bit dramatic, but I don’t think “neutral location that we both might reasonably be at” is an unethical or idiotic choice for the handover. I probably would have just had my lawyer send it to her lawyer, but maybe there’s something else going on here.

      Reply ↓
    5. WorkerDrone*

      What was making everyone uncomfortable? The parent of a child that goes to that school was waiting at the school to hand the other parent some papers. When I pick up my nieces from their school, I’m not chatting, I’m just standing there not interacting with anyone else waiting for them. I don’t see what’s so strange or unsettling about that.

      I genuinely don’t get what would be unethical or idiotic about it. He had to hand her some stuff, he did so in a public location with a security presence, and presumably caused no trouble since he didn’t speak to anyone nor start any trouble with his ex. So what’s the problem?

      Reply ↓
      1. Garlic Microwaver*

        I was not present so I can’t speak to the public’s reaction. I do know the individual though and will leave it at that. I supposed I just found it odd that they used a school where children are present to do this when it can potentially cause conflict.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hlao-roo*

          I don’t know the individual in question, so my assumption when I read your initial post was that he chose the school to minimize conflict (i.e. your friend would accept the papers without argument at the school, because children and other adults were present, but maybe would have argued with him if he tried to hand them off in private).

          But it’s also possible that he chose the school hoping that she would argue with him, and then she would look bad in front of the children/other adults. That would be a jerk move.

          Reply ↓
    6. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Tacky because it’s unnecessarily involving their child in their divorce drama by the fact that it’s at the child’s school and it’s likely the wife was expecting the child to show up at any moment, not necessarily unethical or illegal.

      Reply ↓
      1. Momma Bear*

        If I were her, I’d have a serious discussion with my lawyer because this indicates it’s not going to be an easy divorce and he’s likely to push boundaries regarding things like custody rotation.

        Reply ↓
  58. CuriousCat*

    If anyone needs a laugh, my workplace just sent out a reminder of the dress code. Along with the jean policy, “no sexually provocative clothing” was highlighted. Easy enough, right? I wore a loose, button-down shirt yesterday that definitely covered everything it needed to and more. I had been talking to my male boss for a few minutes when I glanced down to see that bit by bit my shirt had come unbuttoned far enough to expose my brightly colored bra. Mortified, I muttered something about a chill and slipped on my jacket. I’m hoping he just thought it was an undershirt, but I imagine my face was the same shade as the shirt!

    Reply ↓
    1. Head Sheep Counter*

      Oh dear! Hopefully it wasn’t noticed or it was excused.

      I am a curious sort and always want know why a policy is updated and who caused the update. At my old job… there were a lot of students (graduate and undergraduate) and the wardrobe choices could be quite… something.

      Reply ↓
      1. Momma Bear*

        My “favorite” fashion fail was the woman who wore leggings and a shimmy belt in an otherwise business casual office.

        For a while we had a young woman wear the tightest clothing – truly almost painted on. I heard later that the old CFO was a creepy old man and he probably promoted her to Finance for the view.

        Reply ↓
    2. Blueberry*

      Not quite the same, but I changed companies last year from a start-up tech (jeans, t-shirts, hoodies) to a more old-school engineering company (no clients on site). I’m very amused that the old-school engineering is very 50’s: button-up shirts, some suit jackets. But, sweatpants are ok. Because people only see your upper half on video meetings I guess?

      Reply ↓
    3. Momma Bear*

      I once had a scoop neck dress that didn’t work well with the bra I chose for the day. I buttoned up a sweater over it as soon as I noticed. Yikes.

      Reply ↓
  59. H.C.*

    How long is too long to be covering for an on-leave co-workers job’s duties that’s not primary to your role?

    I’m currently entering month 3 of this and while I’m glad I can provide coverage so the other team’s not left in a pinch, I am about to enter the busy period for my usual job role so can’t reliably do those extra duties too.

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think regardless of how long is reasonable, it sounds like you’ve got a legitimate conflict in providing coverage coming up. I’d talk to your boss about it and say “I was happy to cover for Fergus while he’s on leave, but we’re coming up to my busy period and I won’t be able to cover both my actual work and the extra duties. Can we make a plan for transferring Fergus’ duties to someone else so I can focus on my work?”

      Because how long is “reasonable” really depends on how long the leave is, how long you agreed to when the leave started, and whether or not you’re well beyond the period you thought you’d be covering, etc. A year probably wouldn’t be reasonable even if you didn’t have a busy period, so the reasonability index here is a red herring, I think.

      Reply ↓
      1. H.C.*

        Yeah, I plan on having that convo with my manager next week so they can connect with my co-worker’s manager on this; unfortunately the leave was sudden and unexpected and there is no determined return-to-work date (I didn’t press for details but it was implied to be their personal or family health issues.)

        I’ve provided coverage for shorter periods in the past (1-2 weeks over holidays, when they go on vacations, etc.) but this is the longest stretch ever yet :/

        Reply ↓
        1. HonorBox*

          This makes perfect sense. Your manager is going to understand what you mean by your busy period and should know what your workload looks like during that time. Reminding them of what you’ll have on your plate will give them a good opportunity to highlight to the other manager what time you will and won’t have and what will need to be moved to someone else.

          Reply ↓
    2. Momma Bear*

      I’d speak up now. I was once tapped to cover a coworker and what was supposed to be temporary ended up being a longterm job offer, which I declined because I didn’t like the work or the location. They ended up restoring my normal duties and hiring someone else. I think it shows you are being proactive to say, “Hey, so this is my busy time and I need to hand this off to someone else. When can we meet to discuss that transition?”

      Reply ↓
  60. Chirpy*

    You know, I had a question today, but the breaking news press conference on the breakroom TV just now has erased it. Absolutely unhinged. So I guess my question now is how do I get unfrozen, when my brain is telling me maybe I won’t need to figure out how to get insurance to actually cover a doctor’s visit for that mystery pain I’ve had for 6+ months if WW3 happens…

    Work has a nurse that comes in to talk about insurance stuff, but I’ve missed her every single month – this last time, she came earlier than the time she was scheduled and left after less than 20 minutes! I don’t have any way to escalate it, either, and the website is useless.

    Reply ↓
    1. HonorBox*

      Is there a way you can drop a Post-it on her workspace the day she’s supposed to come in? My former boss used to throw a “See Me” note on our desk to ensure we caught up with her before the end of a workday. Let her know you have a question and maybe she can come seek you out?

      Reply ↓
  61. Need Career Help*

    Removed because of the threat of suicide; you are welcome to post the question without that, but that piece isn’t something this forum is able to handle here. Please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, where you can reach a trained crisis worker 24/7: 800-273-8255. They will help. – Alison

    Reply ↓
  62. Miss Chanandler Bong*

    I’ve been on FMLA after having surgery. I had a fairly rare condition that we had to dig to even find out what was wrong, but since the surgery, I’ve found out that the issue I was having meant I basically wasn’t absorbing the medications I take daily, so I was in a constant state of brain fog. I know this affected my work performance, and I probably should have been on FMLA for longer than I was, but we didn’t know what was wrong to even go that route.

    Going back to work, I feel like I should explain that my medical condition was definitely affecting performance, but it’s been resolved. Is there a way to go about this without sounding like I’m making excuses? I’d love to hear some manager viewpoints.

    Reply ↓
    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Did your manager mention your performance prior to surgery? If not, I don’t know that it’s worth bringing up.

      Reply ↓
    2. Yes And*

      I think most people will make generous assumptions about this sort of thing. If a colleague with a history of good performance has a sudden spell of poor performance followed by FMLA, I think most decent people will put 2 and 2 together and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you don’t work with decent people, that’s a whole other kettle of fish.

      Reply ↓
  63. Criminally Competent*

    I’m about to become a manager to two employees, both of whom are based in different states than me. What suggestions do you all have for managing remote employees? Especially more junior ones.

    Reply ↓
    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Do a huddle/check-in meeting on a regular basis. Just a short (15-20) meeting two or three times a week where you can check in on them, they can ask questions, you can make sure everybody is on the right track, etc.

      You could start with three a week (MWF) just to make sure you have things covered, and then reduce them as needed. My sub-team of three people has two a week with our boss, some individuals only do them once a week. It also depends on work load. But making sure they have that regular time with you is important.

      Reply ↓
    2. WFH4VR*

      My manager is remote, and a really helpful tool for both of us is to have a shared, running agenda for our weekly check ins. It’s in a shared location and as things come up during the week, we can add them to the agenda so we remember to talk about them.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      A few things:
      – Align very explicitly on goals, benchmarks, and expectations. Not like “how you will do the work” but “what you will achieve.” For junior staff who are transitioning to a new manager, 90-day goals might be a good place to start. I ask my staff to report on progress toward their goals monthly.
      – Set up structures for communication. Be very clear about what should be an email, what should be a phone call, what should go on slack. Set up a weekly check-in. Build structure into that check-in for them to tell you what they plan to prioritize for the week, what they need your input on, what’s on the backburner. Consider building in a two-way feedback mechanism to ensure there is a dedicated space for both upward and downward feedback.
      – Take early “slices” of their work in the beginning. Like instead of “write the memo,” ask them to share an initial outline of the memo or some talking points with you.
      – Do what you can to facilitate relationship-building with other team members. Remote staff can get very siloed very quickly, which can be hard to spot as a manager. Look for times when it’s not occurring to them to consult a teammate or colleague who they should be talking to and ask them to do so.

      Reply ↓
  64. Jill Swinburne*

    Last week I asked how the hell all the Ferguses of this world find employment, while pleasant and normal people struggle.

    I’m pleased to say I have been offered a role with a great-sounding company that does stuff I care about and, for me, mentally undemanding work for the part-time hours I want (exactly what I was looking for)!

    Not only that, the recruitment process was an absolute masterclass in how it’s done – prompt clear communication, an extremely enjoyable interview with people who were clearly happy to be there, they got back to me when they said they would at all times, and I had the offer on the third business day after the final interview.

    Then once I verbally accepted they were very quick to get my onboarding materials through (it becomes real when they want your bank details!) AND I had to read and agree to a very thorough code of conduct and DEI policy, which makes me think it will be an excellent place to work.

    Reply ↓
  65. NotAnArtCritic*

    I’m looking for suggested scripts with a mentee who has landed a job in my department but I’ve been told has raised red flags and made the hiring manager quite annoyed before even starting. She apparently made a whole range of demands in the negotiations that made her seem wildly out of touch. I’m surprised and a bit worried that she’ll have problems in her career, and as a mentor I feel obligated to have a talk with her. I don’t want to say that she shouldn’t advocate for herself, obviously! She should, but this job is actually one of the sweetest deals you can get in our industry and she’s making it seem like she doesn’t realise that, which will make people question how well she really understands our line of work. She has been in the industry for a number of years already and hit the jackpot with this job, so I’m not sure why she doesn’t realise this.

    Reply ↓
      1. NotAnArtCritic*

        Oh yes, we are in continuous communication about it. To me, she says she is super excited and overjoyed to get this job! But I would like to do her the kindness of letting her know that some of her actions around it have been doing her a disservice.

        Reply ↓
        1. AnotherOne*

          can you ask both parties what the hiring manager thought were “wildly out of touch” demands and can you ask mentee what she put forth when negotiating?

          cuz I have to wonder if there are crossed wires going on?

          Reply ↓
  66. virago*

    What is a professionally appropriate way to decline (again!) participating in a leadership development program when your boss has indicated it would be a “great opportunity” for you but you think it would be a big, dull waste of time and effort?

    Background: I’m a individual contributor on a team of 7, in my current role for 3 yrs, with 9 years at this organization. I have 25 yrs experience working in the private sector (in different roles/industries) and have done the supervisor/manager stint a couple of times, including with my current organization prior to taking this position.

    As part of a professional development discussion during a few 1:1’s last year I had shared I would be open to considering a supervisor/manager position if the right opportunity came along within our organization. My personal goal is to remain with this organization another 2.5 years, and at this stage of my career advancing upward isn’t high on my list of professional pursuits.

    The program is open to everyone and it’s promoted as a way to advance within the organization, hear speakers, and network with others including senior leadership. It requires a 100% time commitment for the 8 months that it runs, where you produce a group presentation. The sessions occur 2-3 days each month and the time/travel/lodging are all covered. None of the people I’ve spoken to who have participated have shared that this program is anything extra special. If nothing else, it’s work on top of work!

    This is the 3rd year my mgr has recommended it, and both times I had already committed to vacation plans that overlapped on a few of the program dates. That’s happening again this year, but I’m wondering if I shouldn’t just be straightforward about having zero interest in ever participating. I’m considering simply asking if there are other ways I could achieve similar results during the normal course of business. The angst I’m feeling is likely due to the juxtaposition of being both open to the right opportunity for a leadership role but not wanting to do this specific thing.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      I think it’s time for an “are there other ways I can move into leadership at [company] without doing [program]?” The answer may be “no,” and then you can privately decide if you want to:

      a – work out your next 2.5 years at [company] in an individual contributor role
      b – leave [company] sooner than 2.5 years to go into leadership elsewhere
      c – suffer through [program] so you can move into leadership at [company]

      Reply ↓
  67. Long-distance job hunting tips?*

    Anyone have any good tips for long-distance job hunting? I’m going to be opening a private mailbox this weekend to apply for jobs with a local address, but I’ve never long-distance job hunted before. Anything else to help my chances? Thanks!

    Reply ↓
  68. Five Years?*

    An old employment contract of mine extends the non-client-solicitation clause for 5 years after you leave, that’s bonkers right? Is it even enforceable?

    Reply ↓
  69. AnotherOne*

    Anyone have suggestions for a first time hiring manager of questions to ask/things to look for when hiring for a position where you aren’t expecting someone to come in with relevant experience in this field (the field is very specialized-think llama care in the tropics) so you are looking for the ability to learn, work independently, ask questions when needed but problem solve most of the time, be detail oriented, and admit your mistakes when they happen.

    So basically the perfect employee just we’ll train them.

    Reply ↓

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