are my longer hours unfair to my coworker?

by Alison Green on March 6, 2025

A reader writes:

I work in an office with two full-time employees, a manager, and 80+ contract employees. Jane, the other full-time employee, and I both support the contract employees in vital, yet different ways. Let’s say that she schedules appointments, and I process payments. Each office in our company has a scheduler and a payment processor, and while both are technically hourly, each cohort has different duties and perhaps a different culture. Payment processors have many more responsibilities than schedulers, and both are occasionally asked to pick up an outside task or six.

Here’s where things get tricky. Both Jane and I have had salaried positions, and Jane is from outside the industry in a larger, more corporate environment. We treat our jobs quite differently. There’s no time clock, but the payment processors tends to prioritize customer service to the contract employees/getting things done efficiently over keeping within eight hours. We frequently stay a little late and often put in a couple hours over a weekend (at home) so as not to return to an anxiety-producing avalanche of work. Depending on the time of year, I probably work 42-50-hour weeks, the latter during super busy times/events. My impression of the schedulers is that many (but not all) of them are the same.

We don’t get overtime, but we get flex time, which admittedly I can forget to track/use. Jane, by contrast, leaves exactly on time (or early, according to some), sticks only to her assigned duties, and demands flex time as compensation for even 15 minutes spent outside her work hours. To be fair, she legally has the right to do this, but it feels quite different from our corporate culture.

Jane gets a lot done within her daily hours but is unavailable outside that time, even for sudden crises. This is difficult for the contract employees, whose jobs are not locked into a neat 9-5, Monday through Friday routine. While they respect my personal time and space, the contract workers know that if difficulty arises, I will be there. Meanwhile, there was incident in which a contract employee came to Jane 40 minutes before the end of an early-release day with a task that would take at least an hour and she firmly said no. She was working from home that day and had no plans but felt it unfair to be asked at such late notice. The contact employee complained all the way up the chain of leadership and another of Jane’s cohort had to step in and do the project.

This has led to some dissatisfaction and (unfortunately) comparison between us. Personally, I get where Jane is coming from – especially legally – but I also see that it fits neither company culture nor my personal work ethic. The company was incredibly good to me when I needed to take a long family leave, and the contract employees and management have been generous about sharing some of their bonuses. I know that Jane resents me for working beyond my eight hours and once reported me to HR for it. (They did nothing.) But am I setting a bad precedent? Am I being unfair to Jane? I am not intentionally trying to look better in the eyes of the contact workers or corporate leaders; I am just trying to do a good job and help the company along.

Yeah, you’re probably setting a bad precedent, and also being a bit unfair to Jane!

If you’re working for free as a non-exempt worker, you’re putting pressure on colleagues to do the same. You’re also exposing your company to legal liability, since they can be subject to fines and penalties for allowing you to do that.

For what it’s worth, the whole set-up might be illegal. You said you get comp time instead of overtime, so I want to make sure you know that in the U.S. it’s illegal to pay non-exempt workers overtime in comp time instead of in money. The exception is if the comp time is taken in the same work week that it was earned in. For example, if you work nine hours on Monday and take an hour of comp time on Tuesday to balance it out, and as a result your total hours for the week don’t go over 40, your company wouldn’t owe you overtime. But if you work nine hours on Monday and don’t take the comp time until a few weeks later, your company owes you overtime pay for all hours over 40 you worked in that original week. (Also, some states calculate overtime by the day instead of the week, meaning in those states you can’t even do the take-it-that-week plan.)

It’s your prerogative if you prefer the comp time set-up and don’t plan to require your employer to follow the law … but in doing that, you’re making it harder for people like Jane who do rightly expect the company to meet its legal obligations to pay them.

If it’s a problem that Jane refuses to be available outside of her scheduled hours, that’s something her manager should address with her. If the job requires occasional work outside of normal hours, they need to clearly explain that. (But then they also need to pay for that time. Any chance Jane is so rigid about never working outside of 9-5 because she knows she won’t be paid for it?)

If you’re ending up with more than your fair share of the work because Jane refuses to stretch her hours and so people come to you instead, that’s something you should talk to your manager about as well. Maybe that means they talk to Jane about adjusting her availability (and paying her for it). Maybe it means that you get compensated at a higher rate in recognition of your greater contributions. I don’t know — but if it’s causing problems, that’s squarely in “talk to your boss” territory.

Right now you’re framing this all as “Jane is out of sync with our corporate culture, and that culture works fine for the rest of us” … but when part of your culture is “we break the law,” that’s not really a good way to look at it.

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{ 205 comments }

{ 205 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Galvanic*

    “technically hourly” sort of sums up the issues here. They’re not “technically” hourly, they *are* hourly with all the legal requirements that come with it.

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    2. JustCuz*

      Yeah and just no to breaking your back for a company. In my very personal opinion, LW needs to set better boundaries with herself and her job in general, but that even that aside, people have fought long and hard for decades and even centuries for fair labor laws. Lets not encourage cultures that try to thwart that “for the greater good of the company”.

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      1. Southern Violet*

        Yup. It doesnt matter if the company was good for OP that one time. They absolutely had their own motives for that. It wasn’t a favor nor loyalty to OP. OP should follow their coworkers example, and if they need more work done they company needs to hire someone else. Coworker is doing nothing wrong. In fact they are doing many things right. OP has just drunk the Koolaid and that’s not a good thing.

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    4. Charlie*

      Yeah – I’m “technically hourly” in an office with almost all exempt employees, and there’s definitely a certain amount of inaccuracy that goes on. Like, if I’m in the middle of something and 5 PM hits, I’ll keep going till 5:15 or whatever to finish it but put in for my usual hours. But then I might get stuck on the train and get in late another day, or pop down to switch my laundry while WFH, and I’m also not taking PTO for those things, so it all more or less comes out in the wash. I would probably take the 1 hour project with 40 minutes left, for example, figuring I’d definitely taken 20 minutes to myself at some point that week. (My full time hour count is also below 40 so the little fudges wouldn’t get me time and a half or anything anyway.)

      But – and this is the important bit that I think OP is missing – that’s all still more or less WITHIN the amount of hours that I’m supposed to work. I also have to periodically work at events that happen at nights or on weekends, or stay several hours late to finish things ahead of those events, and I always, always, always get overtime for that. If I’m working a 50 hour week I’m putting in my timesheet that I worked a 50 hour week and getting paid accordingly. That’s not a work ethic thing! It’s a getting paid fairly thing.

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      1. mreasy*

        Yeah being a hard worker and being willing to go the extra mile is arguably having a strong work ethic. Being willing to do all of this without being paid for the time has nothing to do with work ethic. It simply means you’re being exploited.

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    5. Goldenrod*

      Totally. I’m Team Jane.

      Now that I am salaried, I am more loose with my time, including staying late if needed. But I can flex my hours in other ways, including starting later at times.

      However, when I used to clock in and out – I made sure to always take my lunch break and stay within my assigned hours. And I know that sometimes I was judged negatively for that. But I felt stubborn about it, because why should I work when I’m not being paid? If my employer is making me punch in and out, I’m fine with that, but I’m not working for free!

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    6. cleo*

      I’m so confused by this letter. The LW says she and Jane are “technically hourly” but also that they are salaried.

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      1. Oof*

        It threw me first too – they are hourly, but have held salary positions before. I can empathize with how that plays into her mindset. It’s a big shift!

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      2. Dawn*

        She most likely means “salaried non-exempt,” since people use the term “salaried” interchangeably with “exempt” all the time.

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      4. mango chiffon*

        You can be both salaried and non-exempt, because I was at one time. Our salary, let’s say $50k per year, is divided out into an hourly rate with 37.5 hours a week expected. If we worked over 37.5 hours in a week, we would be paid extra based on our hourly rate, and then once we were at 40 hours we would get 1.5x hourly rate per the law. The expectation was that we did not work over 37.5 hours unless there was specific permission from a manager for a work reason.

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    7. Lacey*

      Yes. I describe myself as “technically hourly” but it swings in the other direction.

      I’m technically hourly, but it’s been explicitly stated that as long as we get all our work done we should put 40 hours on our time card whether we did any work or not.

      Generally we’re expected to be available (engaged to wait) during those hours, but sometimes we’re told to take extra time off, paid.

      But we are also actually hourly because we’re never allowed to work more than 40 hours because nothing we need to do is so important that they would spend over-time money on it rather than letting us do it the next day.

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  2. Beth*

    “when part of your culture is “we break the law,” that’s not really a good way to look at it.”

    I want some version of this on a t-shirt.

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        2. bamcheeks*

          It is, but I also don’t think this is it? LW doesn’t seem to be saying, “I’m so lucky to be in this incredibly competitive sector / role and that’s why I work overtime”, she just seems to think that’s normal for everyone. I think that’s two different things.

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    2. Heya*

      This is a milder version of the LW who emphatically refused to eat company-provided pizza during overtime because they wanted to save the company money, and got mad at their coworkers who ate the pizza. LW, your coworker has boundaries and insists on being paid for her work. If you don’t want to emulate her that’s fine, but she’s done nothing worthy of criticism.

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      2. JustCuz*

        OMG at last horrible company, the ones who had been there 20+ years started doing this and we all rolled our eyes. Until we realized that they knew that the owner actually runs the company right to the brink of ruin – no matter what he spins in the meantime. Their mindset was like “I would rather get paid than have free pizza?” when we all didn’t realize how batshit the owner actually was – until it was way too late. And let me tell you, he did not disappoint. Spent thousands and thousands of dollars on hosting and parties to (seriously) impress his competitors and then laid a bunch of us off a month later lmfao. I will never work for a small private business again, but if I do, I am not rolling my eyes at these people hahaha. I’m getting out!!

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      3. mreasy*

        I have friends who won’t expense their travel meals because they think it makes them look better to the company. I’m like, no, they budget for these things. This just means you’re spending money to do your job.

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  4. Alex*

    I suspect the issue here is that OP is assuming “salaried” means “non-exempt.” This is a common misconception! OP, your workplace is taking advantage of you, and punishing your colleague for not allowing herself to be taken advantage of.

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    1. Consonance*

      I think you mixed these up. OP is assuming “salaried” means “exempt”, i.e. exempt from overtime requirements.

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        1. Isben Takes Tea*

          You can absolutely be salaried and non-exempt. I am. Salaried just means my salary is described in yearly terms: this is how much I’m getting per year, broken down by regular pay periods. I don’t fill out a time card, but I absolutely report if I go over 8 hours a day/40 days a week and get overtime based on an hourly breakdown of my annual salary.

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          1. Gonna Gonna*

            By not clarifying things with the LW, Alison leaves a lot of uncertainty here. LW seems to imply that they are exempt (“salary,” “don’t get overtime”) but also says that they are “technically hourly,” which would imply non-exempt. Without a clarification all of this is ungrounded speculation. It would have been worth an email to check again with the LW.

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            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              “Technically hourly” means non-exempt. You can be salaried non-exempt; that’s not a contradiction. Salaried non-exempt means you get the same salary every week, plus you can overtime tacked on if you go over 40 hours in a week.

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              1. Gonna Gonna*

                But we really don’t know. “Hourly” could mean (to the LW) that their weekly pay is simply calculated by multiplying 40 hours x an hourly rate. Many people use “salaried” as another way of saying exempt. Are you able to reach out to the LW and get a clarification?

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                1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  The LW is welcome to clarify if I got it wrong, but I don’t think it’s ambiguous. She says they’re hourly (and the alternative explanation you described for that is just not a typical way for people to frame it in this context), and she says that she understands where Jane is coming from “legally.” (There would be nowhere legal for Jane to be coming from if they were exempt.)

                  It would be a completely different question (and answer) if they were exempt, but it seems clear to me that they’re not.

                2. Consonance*

                  I think your read is reasonable based on the LW’s initial description (salaried, no overtime) because that could mean either that they’re not *eligible* for overtime, or that their workplace just ignores overtime. But to then say that they’re “technically hourly” solidifies the case for them being salaried non-exempt, ie. eligible for overtime.

              2. Consonance*

                I once attended a public state supreme court case followed by a general conversation with the justices. One of them responded to a question about how they felt about people going free based on “a technicality,” with “those technicalities are your rights.”

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              3. Mad Scientist*

                Am I the only one who has been hourly AND exempt (in a previous position)? If I worked more than 40 hours in a week, I was paid for it at my usual hourly rate (not a higher overtime rate). Could this be what the LW means by not being eligible for overtime? Because if they were truly non-exempt, they would need to be paid for any extra hours (at a higher rate, too), but if they were hourly AND exempt, then their arrangement would make sense, right? What am I missing?

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                1. Strive to Excel*

                  There are exemptions but they all revolve around you getting a minimum $ amount per week *and* being in a specific profession. Basically office staff, executives, and admin employees would qualify. But that also means that when you worked extra hours you got paid for extra hours. You just didn’t get paid the overtime rate. LW & Jane *aren’t* being paid for those extra hours, except by flextime, which isn’t legal. It’s not just that they’re not being paid an overtime premium – it sounds like they’re not being paid at all.

            2. Skippy.*

              What makes it even less clear is that LW says “they” are hourly and “we” are salaried. Maybe that’s a sign of LW’s ambivalence?

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        2. LizW*

          I am salaried non-exempt…my pay is the same every pay period, however if I clock overtime I get that added on.

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            1. mango chiffon*

              I was salaried non-exempt until a recent promotion. We were required to stay within 37.5 hours (we work on a 7.5 hour day) and if we needed to work more than that, we had to request permission from our managers to do so. They preferred us not to, unless there was some reasoning for it.

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        3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          It’s actually really handy if you’re non-exempt and your pay periods are 1-15 and 16-EOM, because that second pay period each month could have anywhere from 8-12 workdays in it (or something like that) – salaried non-exempt means each of those pay periods still has the same base paycheck regardless of how many days it’s for. When I was paid as salaried non-exempt, any OT was added to the paycheck for the pay period in which it was earned, and likewise any unpaid time off deducted, but otherwise the paycheck was consistent. It balances out over the course of the year, and if you leave mid year, my previous employer would compare your paid hours to your worked hours for YTD and settle up out of your last paycheck (including paid-out vacation) to balance.

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    2. Commenty*

      I may have misinterpreted, but it doesn’t sound to me like the company is punishing Jane. I got the impression that the contractors are annoyed with Jane, but I didn’t read that there have been any negative consequences for her from management. The project she said “no” to was handled by another person. Jane also complained to HR about OP working more than the set schedule, so it sounds to me like she feels comfortable talking to people at the company about the expectation that she’ll only work during her scheduled hours.

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  5. DisneyChannelThis*

    I used to be like LW. Then I finally listened to my doctors and now I’m a Jane. Staying late at work all the time meant I wasn’t having time to make and eat healthy dinners, just scarfing down granola bars or getting takeout on the (delayed) way home. Likewise I wasn’t getting enough time at the gym. Mental health too, I didn’t have time for hobbies, or I was too burn out from overwork to enjoy my hobbies in the time I did have. Don’t have a heart attack in your 30s and 40s because you’re too involved in your career.

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    1. StressedButOkay*

      I am trying to hard to become a Jane, especially working from home! The part that got to me here was being asked 40 minutes before close to do a task that would take an hour (or, lets be honest, maybe more) – but she was working from home, so why wouldn’t she, right?

      I have given my work far more hours by being remote since 2020 than I ever did in the office. It’s so much easier to go “just a bit longer”. But my mental and physical health continue to suffer from it.

      Jane has boundaries and she’s sticking to them – especially if what the office is doing is illegal with the comp time vs overtime.

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      1. Brett*

        Also, maybe Jane had some other tasks or administrative work that weren’t finished that she had committed to completing. If she had 20-30 minutes of stuff she already needed to do plus a last minute request that would be “at least” an hour, then that even more argues for waiting till the next day.

        Jane might also have obligations after work where staying late is more of a burden than just working a little longer.

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      2. blink14*

        I’ve been working from home since 2020 in a full time, salaried and exempt position and I can think of a handful of times per year that I work outside of my set office hours. I treat it as if I am in the office – that laptop closes when my workday is done and doesn’t open again until my office hours begin the next morning. Because that’s exactly what I did in person – I rarely worked outside of my set hours.

        I never check email outside of work hours, I never open my laptop on weekends or PTO time. I have, in effect, trained my coworkers to respect my boundaries because I respect those boundaries for myself. Someone knows that if they email me after office hours, I will respond to them promptly the next morning.

        Just because you are home, it doesn’t give anyone the right to require you to work frequently outside of that. Your time is YOURS. Boundaries are exactly what mental and physical health need. If you are not working in an role that requires you to be on call (and being compensated fairly for that), it is truly not worth it in the long run. Put yourself first.

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      3. Arrietty*

        I’m trying to internalise the fact that taking care of my health is a part-time job (and that if I don’t, it’ll very likely become a full-time job). I have to treat it as an actual obligation with external accountability (in this case, my doctors) because otherwise it gets shunted to the bottom of the list.

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    2. Rex Libris*

      A friend of mine who is a Lutheran Pastor frequently points out that she’s heard many people near the end of their life lament that they didn’t spend more time with their family, see more of the world, and a thousand other regrets, but absolutely no one has ever said “I wish I had spent more time at work.”

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  6. Purple Stapler*

    I once worked with someone like Jane. Extremely rigid with her hours, refused all paid OT. Clocked in/out on the dot. Lunch was an hour on the dot. Expected others to help HER, but she never helped anyone, even to help cover when someone was out sick. Did her job well, but she refused to do anything extra. Her rigidity left coworkers in the lurch when someone was out sick or on vacation. Eventually people stopped helping her and did the absolute bare minimum to cover her desk when she was out sick/on vacation.

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    1. Jennifer Strange*

      Other than the expectation of others to help her (assuming it would put them over their own hours) I’m not seeing the issue here? If her job was specifically 9-5 (and she was working 9-5) she’s not doing anything wrong.

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      1. Purple Stapler*

        My coworker at the time expected help from others, including things that would cause them to stay later and have OT, yet she would not do the same for others.

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        1. Jennifer Strange*

          Sure, which is why I singled that out as the one issue. Otherwise, she has a right to state that she isn’t putting in OT as long as it’s not something she is expected to do.

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        2. duinath*

          Yeah, but we have no reason to think that is “like Jane”.

          Having a work ethic does not mean doing unpaid labor, and caring about your company and your career does not mean you should put yourself out in a way your job neither requres nor compensates you for.

          Your old coworker doesn’t sound great, but once they set the precedent that they can just say no to helping you, it is okay to just say no to helping them, in my humble opinion. I would have done what you did.

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    2. Butterfly Counter*

      I’d say this is a bit different. Your coworker refused paid OT. Jane is refusing to work OT for free.

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    3. Swiss Army Them*

      Aside from not helping others, I don’t see a problem with any of this. Why is it wrong to refuse OT and work your regular hours?

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      1. Rainy*

        Something something work ethic, above and beyond, it’s not exploitation if I’m happy to do it.

        Insert eyeroll emoji. It’s 2025, people. Do less.

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        2. Tea Monk*

          Yes, we can express our work ethic by doing our work to our best ability, and still have some healthy years left ( if we can ever retire)

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    4. AlsoADHD*

      In this case, it sounds like the company won’t pay for OT and has not suggested OT part of the job, which is hourly non-exempt (though LW suggests it’s technically not… which Alison explains is problematic). If your role requires occasional OT and you make that clear in the hiring process and to employees, and you pay the OT, that’s different. But otherwise, hourly means hourly, and they should not be expected to do OT.

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      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yes, this. If people need the person in Jane’s position to do things that will require that person to stay later than 5:00, then the company needs to make that a job requirement and hire accordingly. Seems like they do want that, so they should either renegotiate with Jane or find a third person to do the after-hours work.

        I’m very confused about this setup, though. I think what’s happening is that all of the 80+ contract workers are also FT workers but they are being paid as contractors? Why aren’t they just FT employees of the company? I fully admit that I don’t quite understand what’s happening here, so if someone could enlighten me further I’d be much obliged.

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        1. Dancing Otter*

          I was a consultant for years, a salaried exempt employee of a consulting firm. Some of our clients referred to all consultants and temps as “contractors” to distinguish us from their own employees. The contract, though, was between my employer and the client company.
          It’s imprecise; it’s confusing; but it’s not uncommon.

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    5. I should really pick a name*

      Expected others to help HER, but she never helped anyone, even to help cover when someone was out sick.

      I don’t see this in the letter, and this is the only bit I see a problem with.

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    6. Beth*

      If a company doesn’t have enough staff to cover the work when people take the PTO that’s due to them — sick time or vacation — without somebody having to work unpaid illegal overtime, that’s a staffing problem. It’s not a problem that an individual employee ought to try to solve by working for free.

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    7. ZK*

      But Jane’s not refusing paid OT, she’s refusing to work UNpaid OT. And who can blame her? OP’s employer is taking advantage of its employees, and Jane ain’t having it. Good for Jane.

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    8. StressedButOkay*

      OP!Jane and Your!Jane are two different things. As far as we know, OP!Jane isn’t demanding other people help her without helping back. She’s refusing to do extra work for free (because comp time, even when it is legal to hand out, is useless if you can’t actually use it, too) and has set boundaries.

      The culture at OP’s office is in the wrong, not Jane.

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    9. Parenthesis Guy*

      It’s one thing to refuse to work late. It’s another to not help out a co-worker. Usually you can help cover someone without working late if you do just the main priorities of a job instead of doing everything. I don’t know that Jane is like your co-worker at all.

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    10. mango chiffon*

      If her job is “technically hourly” and 9-5 she should not be working more than the 40 hours required. If the business is such that this is not possible, she needs to be compensated, or they need to hire someone else to work outside of 9-5 hours.

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    11. L-squared*

      It doesn’t sound like she is overly rigid during her working hours. Nor does it sound like she wouldn’t stay 5 minutes if needed. But wanting just total flexibility is ridiculous.

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    12. Workerbee*

      One thing I’ve found to hold true after decades of work is – the work keeps coming. Doesn’t matter if you hustle to try to finish everything before the end of the day or before a holiday or vacation, if you have someone doing their job and yours while you’re out or vice versa. The work will still be there.

      I’m liking all these variants of Janes thus far.

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  7. LL*

    I was a little confused at first about whether you’re exempt or non-exempt OP, but I’m assuming that when you say hourly, you mean non-exempt, and when you salary you mean exempt.

    So it sounds like you’re hourly. And yes, you’re being very unfair to Jane and if you’re not getting paid for the time you’re working over 40 hours a week, your company is breaking the law.

    I’d bet that Jane took this job BECAUSE she didn’t like having to work over 40 hours/week when she was in salaried positions and I don’t blame her.

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  8. Rainy*

    LW, you’ve mistaken exploitation for culture. You’re not helping anyone except the company, and you’re hurting everyone but most of all yourself.

    You should sit down sometime and figure out what your hourly rate has dropped to when you do unpaid work and ask yourself if that amount is really worth losing an hour of your life. People fought and died, literally, so that you could have a 40 hour work week.

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    2. PenguinWrangler*

      OP says their typical week is 42 hours, and it seems like that’s 2 hours of 1.5x overtime that they aren’t getting paid for. If they were getting paid for it, that would be a 7.5% raise, which would be a chunky raise in any economy. And that’s before the handful of 50 hour weeks they work; working three 50 hour weeks in a year adds up to more an entire weeks’ pay in unpaid overtime.

      So to reframe, if OP or someone else doesn’t think they’re being exploited, imagine your offer letter said so much pay and an annual bonus of a weeks pay, but then they cut your rate by 7.5% and never paid you the bonus.

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      1. Melicious*

        Thank you for doing the math on that! It’s more than I would expect without looking at the numbers. If you add those together (47 weeks at 42 hours, 3 weeks/year at 50 hours, 2 weeks vacation), that’s over 9% increase in pay you’re not getting.

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      1. Rainy*

        Whenever I hear someone in management talk about how they’re a family, I think to myself “dysfunctional families are a thing.” Because I’ve worked at family-owned companies and they were dysfunctional as hell, and my last job had someone in leadership who constantly talked about how we were like a family, and she herself was constantly working to make it more Tolstoyan than the average person would prefer.

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    4. Zona the Great*

      And I expect my workplace to accommodate my extended family leave because it is the right and legal thing to do, not because I lubed them up with free labor years earlier.

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  9. Consonance*

    One caveat to Alison’s comments re: comp time. At least one state (Washington) does allow comp time to be selected as opposed to overtime for public employees. It accrues at the same rate as overtime (1.5), up to 240 hours, and can be cashed out.

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    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Public employees are actually not covered by that part of law at all! The government has exempted themselves from a bunch of employment laws, go figure.

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          1. Apex Mountain*

            It’s like that old saying, never attribute to ignorance what can be better explained by malice :)

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      2. FricketyFrack*

        I was going to ask about that! I work in municipal government, and employees can opt in to accruing comp time (at time and half) instead of being paid OT, and I was wondering how they could if it’s illegal. In my case, I prefer to take the comp time, because I need time off more than I need money right now, so I’m glad me employer isn’t breaking the law.

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        1. Consonance*

          I was actually really pleased with it because it’s not something the employer gets to choose for you and ultimately costs them the same. I worked hard for a little over a year in a position that was designed to be somewhat temporary, and because I chose comp time over overtime I got to take an amazing two week vacation without a lot of PTO accrued.

          It would suck if it meant they could control whether or not you got overtime, but it wasn’t set up that way.

          Reply ↓
          1. doreen*

            I was much happier with comp time – I’m not sure why people so often think it’s only to the government employer’s benefit. My government employer would have been better off paying me time and a half in cash instead of giving me time and a half in overtime which let me take a four month paid maternity leave during which my benefits and vacation accruals continued. Twice.

            Reply ↓
  10. CubeFarmer*

    I admire Jane’s strict work boundaries. I sometimes have trouble leaving at the end of the day when I’m in the middle of something.

    Reply ↓
    1. Paint N Drip*

      I admire them too! Being out of lockstep with a broken system is not a bad thing.
      I have only recently gotten better at taking flex time when I’ve stayed late or shrunk my lunchtime, but I still feel bad about it (-_-)

      Reply ↓
  11. TinkerTailorSolderDye*

    Alison nailed this one, LW; it might be out of sync to you, but it’s illegal for BOTH of you to work without overtime pay/off the clock, and sets up your company for all sorts of fines and such.

    I’ve never been salaried, I’ll be honest, but I HAVE worked for a supports company that offered flex/comp time…but the problem? It never, ever materialized for me. Because at the time, I had no kids, no spouse, and massive student debt, I would up working roughly a month straight at one point, and my unpaid hours totaled nearly double what I’d been paid for. And there was no one willing to take over my shifts, but god help me if I didn’t cover others. I was so young, so much in debt, and struggling that I just accepted it because that was a huge part of the company culture.

    And then my state enacted better overtime laws…and guess who got fired on a bogus abuse claim? Exactly that. I gave that company double what they gave me, and at the end of it all, I was the one who got shoved out.

    The fact that your bosses and HR have done nothing to curb this problem tells me that while your company isn’t toxic by most standards, it is absolutely going to cost you Jane’s expertise and good work by chasing her away with these sorts of expectations and frankly, retaliation for when she complained and instead, your contract employees started comparing you two and complaining themselves.

    Is a company really that amazing if they outright ignore the law? It’s a good question, and I think that it may be wise to think about what the answer may turn out to be.

    Reply ↓
  12. NotmyUsualName*

    The shock in my coworkers face when my very first year I pointed out that what they were doing was illegal and if I was going to need to work 60 hours in a specific event week I would need to be paid 20 hours of overtime. They had been low key comping it for decades. And then Covid interfered.

    Then we got a new boss and I laid it out that we had to be paid and all of a sudden there was a corporate memo that we had to be paid or arrange comp time in the week leading up to the event since it was on the last work day of the week. They had been having dozens of employees “volunteer” for the event for years including from our office where it was mandatory.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rainy*

      I left my last job right before an event I’d been voluntold to work that would have had me on site from 8am until MIDNIGHT, on a Thursday, with so many other responsibilities that week that there literally wasn’t time to flex that extra 7 hours, and we were all OT exempt (of course). The enjoyment I felt when I gave notice and let them know I wouldn’t be doing that…chef’s kiss.

      Reply ↓
  13. cathy*

    I’m sorry, but if you contract me to work 40 hours a week, I’m not working more than that barring a real emergency.

    Reply ↓
    2. Kiriana*

      My old job had two times of year that were more busy and people would be offered (paid) overtime, and even with it being paid it was well-known that I would do two hours and no more, just because my commute was such a pain that doing any significant overtime meant I’d never have time at home. Beyond that we clocked off exactly at the end of our shift unless we were on a call, we got paid until the end of that call, and we had rules that no one could work more than six days in a row or more than 60 hours a week. Local management tried to make sure I was taking enough vacation time to avoid burnout as well, though it could be difficult to get it past the schedulers sometimes if we were short-staffed. We were paid at the lower end of what was standard in the industry for our area but the local culture was actually pretty damn good.

      Reply ↓
    3. duinath*

      And if emergencies happen as often as this workplace seems to expect Jane and LW to do unpaid overtime, there is a Problem.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Co-signed. It’s one thing if every now and then something comes up at the last minute, and a staff member is asked (ASKED, not demanded!) if they are able to work late to help. Even then, though, in a situation like this the proper (not to mention legal!) thing to do if they work late is to pay them overtime. The fact that a 42 hour week is typical for the LW says a LOT about how this company is run right now.

        Reply ↓
  14. H*

    LW1 mindset can be so exhausting as someone who just cannot work outside of hours. I have too much nonnegotiable responsibilities outside of the workplace – as do many women – which ultimately leads to career stalling/lack of upward mobility and other limitations. Don’t break your back for a company that would send a get well card and fill your position as soon as they legally could.

    Reply ↓
  15. MsM*

    “Meanwhile, there was incident in which a contract employee came to Jane 40 minutes before the end of an early-release day with a task that would take at least an hour and she firmly said no. She was working from home that day and had no plans but felt it unfair to be asked at such late notice. The contact employee complained all the way up the chain of leadership and another of Jane’s cohort had to step in and do the project.”

    Unless people are literally going to die if whatever this thing is doesn’t get done ASAP, I think it is considered general common sense that if you ask for something time-consuming at the end of the day, you do not have a right to expect that it will be done at the end of the day. The fact someone either failed to properly manage their own time so they could provide enough advance notice or could not hold the line with whoever was making unreasonable demands of them, decided that was Jane’s problem, and then took it all the way up the chain when they didn’t get what they wanted is wild.

    “the contract employees and management have been generous about sharing some of their bonuses”

    Have you considered that maybe you should just be…getting bonuses for what you do? And this is coming from someone in an industry where bonuses are not typically a thing for anyone, so don’t tell me that’s just not the culture.

    Reply ↓
    1. SHEILA, the co-host*

      I came here to say almost exactly this. LW, unless you work in health care or some other environment where someone is literally dying, you don’t have a crisis, you have a failure by your organization to staff appropriately and/or a failure on the part of the person who asked for the task near the end of the day to plan accordingly. Neither of those scenarios are Jane’s fault or responsibility to solve.

      Reply ↓
    2. Colette*

      Unless people are literally going to die if whatever this thing is doesn’t get done ASAP, I think it is considered general common sense that if you ask for something time-consuming at the end of the day, you do not have a right to expect that it will be done at the end of the day.

      It was the end of Jane’s day, but that doesn’t mean that it was an unreasonable demand or that the person asking doesn’t manage their own work properly. As the OP says, not everyone works the same hours, and sometimes things come up at the last minute and legitimately need to be done, even when they’re not literally life and death. “Tenant has a broken tap that won’t turn off”, “delivery truck is broken so we can’t finish our deliveries”, “our vendor just told us we need to get this order in by 5 so we get the product before the trade show”, “our IT network is down so 300 people can’t work” – sometimes things need to be done at the last minute.

      That doesn’t mean Jane should work for free, though.

      Reply ↓
      1. mreasy*

        Well and the “culture” of the company is that people work illegal unpaid overtime. Of course this would become expected across the board.

        Reply ↓
      2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        Agreed. It wasn’t an unreasonable request by the employee. It wasn’t an unreasonable response by Jane. The disconnect comes from the OP: Jane was already home (meaning she wasn’t going to miss a bus or get stuck in traffic) and “she had no plans” (meaning she can just keep working??)
        OP, “my work ethic” should not mean that you set yourself on fire to to keep someone else warm. It means you do the best work you can while you are being paid to do it.
        I also have an issue with the people “sharing their bonuses.” OMG the company has staff PAYING other staff because because the company is not doing it. That is INSANE.

        Reply ↓
        1. Paint N Drip*

          Respectfully I think OP needs to look inside and reconsider their work ethic and expectations around working – determine why working at home and not having solid plans means you need to trade your time for labor above and beyond what you agreed to, without being compensated. Jane’s time and life outside of work have value!!!

          Reply ↓
          1. Commenty*

            I agree with you. I have empathy for the OP, because I can see myself being in their situation, if I was getting a lot of praise for “going the extra mile”… but it’s important to learn that even though the praise feels good, it’s better to work somewhere that follows the rules and pays overtime.

            Reply ↓
        2. Rainy*

          My last manager took for granted that if I was taking vacation time, it wasn’t to go anywhere, because most of us were not paid enough to actually take vacations, and I certainly wasn’t. So when I booked off a week over spring break three months in advance, she assumed I’d be staying home, so she casually told me a few weeks before my vacation that she was going to unapprove it in the system because they needed me to come in. (Spoiler alert: they didn’t, it was just that the Idiot In Charge had decided all of a sudden that we needed a representative from every team in the office every day of spring break just because, and I was a team of one. Apparently no one had done the math on how you arrange “coverage” in a team with just one person and still let that person be sick or go on vacation.)

          I said no. She was *flabbergasted* and then told me that since it’s not like I had real plans, she was going to have to insist. Whatever I said was more diplomatic, but I’m pretty sure my face had “Too bad for you” written all over it. (It was my parents’ 50th anniversary, and I was going to be out of state for the party.)

          Reply ↓
      3. Jennifer Strange*

        While I agree the request on its surface wasn’t necessarily unreasonable, complaining about Jane to leadership WAS unreasonable.

        Reply ↓
        2. Colette*

          Maybe – did the employee complain about Jane up the chain, or did they just complain that they needed someone to do the thing?

          What are the expectations for people in Jane’s role? (Could she have been paid for doing it, or take her time in lieu in the same week?)

          Did she say “I won’t have time to finish this today since I’m off in 40 minutes” or did she say “This isn’t my problem.”

          Reply ↓
      4. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Though if that type of thing occurs regularly, it’s an indication that the company isn’t staffing appropriately to ensure adequate coverage.

        Reply ↓
      5. Break me off a piece*

        “Tenant has a broken tap that won’t turn off” – sounds like they need to employ an after-hours maintenance crew

        “delivery truck is broken so we can’t finish our deliveries”- ok, so the deliveries will get done tomorrow

        “our vendor just told us we need to get this order in by 5 so we get the product before the trade show”- you can pay expedited shipping to get the product to the trade show on time

        “our IT network is down so 300 people can’t work”- then work will resume when the network gets fixed during business hours

        Corporate “emergencies” are not true emergencies and shouldn’t be treated as such. If a business can’t withstand a few unexpected hiccups without acting like the sky is falling then they didn’t set up the business very well, and that’s not the employee’s fault.

        Reply ↓
        1. Colette*

          I’m not saying it’s Jane’s fault – but it’s not necessarily the person asking Jane to do her portion of the job’s fault, either.

          Sure, corporate emergencies are often not life-or-death emergencies, but most of us like to get a paycheck, and that requires an employer who is able to pay us. Sometimes it’s appropriate to work overtime or go the extra mile (with the appropriate compensation for doing that).

          Reply ↓
    3. Wendy Darling*

      The only person letting anyone down in this story is the person who stepped in to do the project, because the only way people are gonna learn not to drop work on this team at the last minute is if trying to do so leads to that work not happening, ask me how tf I know.

      Reply ↓
    4. Lacey*

      Yes. I don’t know what the OP’s field is. But I work in advertising. If someone comes to me late with a long project, it’s not getting done till the next day and there’s no reason why it should.

      Fortunately, I work with people who at least have that much common sense.
      And like the OP’s contractors, they also have a loosey goosey work-week.

      I recieve emails time stamped at 9, 10, 11 pm.
      But I don’t know about them until 8:05 am the next morning.

      Reply ↓
      1. Colette*

        Sure – but if you worked in PR, you might need to work late if an executive were charged with a reprehensible crime; if you worked in IT and the CEO’s computer broke an hour before they leave for the airport, you might need to fix it; if you worked in sales and your client has a big purchase they need to get completed before the end of their fiscal year, you might need to handle it. In many jobs, things can wait for the next day, but that’s not true of every job.

        Reply ↓
        1. Commenty*

          I worked in a non-exempt position where I worked many late nights for things that came up. But I was paid overtime for the hours. It sounds like Jane would not be.

          Reply ↓
  16. Lurker*

    I did not know that comp time is illegal in the US. My company does not pay overtime for non-managerial exempt staff and often does not approve use of comp time. Can anyone share where it is outlined that this is illegal?

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      If they’re exempt, that means they’re exempt from receiving overtime. That can only be done for salaried employees receiving over a certain salary. Comp time being illegal is only for non-exempt employees – ie, they’re still salary but have to be paid for overtime.

      Reply ↓
      1. mreasy*

        Also certain roles, regardless of salary, can never be made exempt (many administrative roles fall under this, for example).

        Reply ↓
        1. Iranian yogurt*

          Yes. Originally I was thrown by LW saying they are “salaried” and “don’t get overtime,” but from the way she describes the jobs, I’m not sure the scheduler position meets the duties test to be exempt. There’s no real way to know without LW clarifying what the job entails, but it seems like the kind of job an employer would try to pass off as “exempt” when it can’t legally be classified that way.

          Reply ↓
          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            The big issue here is that OP and Jane are misclassified as salaried workers. There is no way those positions are not “salaried, non exempt.”

            Reply ↓
            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Anyone can be salaried, whether exempt or non-exempt. Misclassification would be if a position was treated as exempt when it should be non-exempt, but you can be salaried either way. In this case it sounds like they’re salaried non-exempt.

              Reply ↓
              1. zinzarin*

                My read is that they are hourly (which, to my understanding, is always non-exempt), but that both *used to* work in salaried roles.

                OP’s phrasing around that point is leading to some unfortunate confusion; this is coming up way more than it otherwise should in these comments.

                Reply ↓
                1. phira*

                  Yeah, the OP’s description of their job/company is really causing a lot of confusion. Like, saying that they don’t clock in/out and their company doesn’t do overtime–is this because they’re actually exempt? Or are we dealing with some illegalities? Very unclear, but I think there’s enough evidence in the letter to suggest that–whether or not the OP knows it–OP and Jane are non-exempt.

                2. Mad Scientist*

                  Hourly does not always mean non-exempt.

                  But I agree, I also interpreted it as them previously (not currently) working in salaried roles.

  17. Strive to Excel*

    Aside from Alison’s excellent points about being in compliance with the law, I do think there’s an expectation clash at play.

    I find overtime jobs come in two flavors. The first is one where you are not expected to work a lot of overtime, and the overtime bonus is used to keep managers from scheduling it indiscriminately. The second is one where of course you’re expected to work some overtime and the overtime bonus is there to compensate you. Management just builds that into its assumptions and carries on with its day.

    It sounds like LW is describing job #2, where you should go in expecting some overtime and schedule flexibility, but Jane feels like she signed up for job #1. If that’s the case, then while the company should absolutely still be paying out for overtime properly, Jane may still be a poor fit. That’s also ultimately a question for the hiring manager & whoever is setting and explaining the job’s expectations.

    Reply ↓
    1. mreasy*

      Nobody is a good fit for a job where overtime is unpaid. We have no idea if Jane would be willing to work overtime were it paid! This is not that workplace.

      Reply ↓
    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I’m not disagreeing with your categories. I’m replying that we don’t have the information to put Jane in either one.
      I don’t think we can call Jane a poor fit for not doing overtime (that should be paid) when it is not being paid. If the company paid her the money it legally owed her, she might very well work an extra ten hours a week. The only thing we know is that she is not going to work an extra ten hours a week, 90% of the year, for free.
      Maybe Jane is trying to show the company that they need to pay people if they want them to work overtime. But she can’t because someone always steps in a does the work. The company has found a whole lot of people whose “work ethic” is, take care of the company and the company will give bonuses to some people who may share a little with you.

      Reply ↓
    3. Dawn*

      This isn’t about an overtime bonus though, this is about overtime pay, and it is illegal not to pay overtime if the employee is non-exempt.

      Reply ↓
  18. HB*

    Jane may feel you are tracking her every move. (Are you asking when Jane leaves? The “early” remark. Or having people report it to you?)

    With all due respect, you are not her manager. If there are scheduling or availability problems, speak in general about it to management, without making Jane the villain.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sam I Am*

      Reminds me of the people who write in to say they’re tracking a coworker’s absences/late arrivals/early departures, and Alison always says STOP DOING THAT.

      Reply ↓
        1. Zona the Great*

          The only part that is unusual compared to all of my coworkers who watch me like a hawk and track my work is that this LW appears to be a solid worker. Typically it is the terrible coworkers and employees who do the watching, IME. The energy LW must be putting into both work and watching seems significant.

          Reply ↓
  19. Antilles*

    the contract employees and management have been generous about sharing some of their bonuses
    Wait, does this mean that other employees are paying your bonuses out of their own pockets? Or that after they get their bonus, they’re handing you some of it? This feels incredibly strange to me, especially for management since it seems like they’re somehow doing a weird end-run around the normal accounting process. I’ve occasionally encountered in-kind thank yous like this (lunch, bottle of wine, beers after work) but never actual sharing of bonuses like this.
    Is this a common thing that I’m just unaware of?

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      It might be a situation where a department can choose to include admin or support employees in their bonus pool? But that does seem weird.

      Reply ↓
    2. Heya*

      I thought of it like a restaurant model where the front of house staff shares a cut of their tips with the back of house staff. Not that it’s a great practice, but it’s not unheard of overall.

      Reply ↓
      2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        See that would make sense. This sounds far more Dickensian to me. The sales staff or rain makers get a bonus and slip a couple hundred bucks to people who do their paperwork on weekends.

        Reply ↓
      2. Strive to Excel*

        LW sounds like they’re describing a position supporting an internal department, not a position of being an external contractor.

        Reply ↓
  20. Skytext*

    So HR did nothing when it was brought to their attention that you are breaking the law, or at least causing your company to break the law, “Company culture” doesn’t get to override the law, OP! American workers have very, very few protections, but not having to work for free is at least one of them! Since HR did nothing, Jane’s next move should be to report the company to your state’s DOL.

    Reply ↓
  21. tuxedo cats are the best*

    “We frequently stay a little late and often put in a couple hours over a weekend (at home) so as not to return to an anxiety-producing avalanche of work. Depending on the time of year, I probably work 42-50-hour weeks, the latter during super busy times/events. My impression of the schedulers is that many (but not all) of them are the same.”

    This jumped out at me. You don’t have a Jane problem, it sounds like your company is understaffed. Personally working on my weekends would be a no go and I would be warming up the resume. I can’t fault Jane here for feeling the same way.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Yup. If you can’t take a full 2 days off on the weekend without an “anxiety-producing avalanche of work,” that almost certainly means that management is assigning more work than the current staffing complement can reasonably handle.

      Reply ↓
  22. mreasy*

    The OP’s attitude breaks my heart. The company isn’t doing you any favors. Companies give bonuses and are flexible when people need flexibility in order to retain workers. You don’t owe them unpaid hours. 2-10 hours a week unpaid overtime is at minimum 100+ hours in a year – and at most over 500! That’s 2.5-10 weeks of work OP is donating unpaid to this company on an annual basis. Why do I suspect a company who treats their workers this way isn’t bonusing them anywhere equal to their “donated” time?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah I feel for OP but honestly the most likely scenario lately is that both OP and Jane are laid off without notice and OP will be wondering why their above-and-beyond attitude didn’t pay off. Not that it always goes that way, mind you, but lately …

      Reply ↓
  23. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

    I worked at a place where admin staff was hourly, but overtime was expected and paid. Then one day we were all declared salaried employees. Overtime was still expected but would now be unpaid. We all became Jane and the busiest department, which really needs overtime, has constant turnover. The company culture is please give us something for nothing and the collective answer is no.

    Reply ↓
      1. zinzarin*

        I think it’s legal. The US federal exemption from overtime pay in the FLSA is roles where the primary duties are “EAP (executive, administrative, and professional).” Maybe I’m misunderstanding what the feds mean by “administrative” work, but they are the “A” in the EAP exemption.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          The administrative exemption doesn’t cover all administrative staff, generally only senior level ones (like a chief of staff or director of operations). The work for this category must be “related to the management or general business operations of the employer or the employer’s customers” and their primary duty must include “the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance.”

          More here:
          https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17c-overtime-administrative

          Reply ↓
  24. phira*

    This has been remarked upon in some comment threads, but to be clear:

    Exempt vs. non-exempt is a job classification, but is not synonymous with getting paid a salary vs. getting paid by the hour. You can have a salaried non-exempt position, where you get paid the same amount per pay period with the assumption that you are working a specific number of hours a week, and if you work more than those hours, you need to be paid overtime for them.

    So it sounds like the LW is non-exempt but salaried. Clues that they’re non-exempt even though they said they were salaried:
    – “technically hourly”
    – the kind of work they’re describing (which I know is muddled a bit for anonymity) doesn’t sound like it meets the requirements to be exempt
    – the manager gets a bonus while they don’t, suggesting they’re in a different class of work
    – Jane is “legally” able to insist on working only the required number of hours and not outside those hours

    LW is obviously welcome to come tell us we’re wrong here, that they’re in fact exempt, but even then I’d wonder if they’d been misclassified by their employer.

    Reply ↓
    1. Mad Scientist*

      Thanks for this! I read it a bit differently though, with LW saying they were currently hourly but previously worked in a salaried role. Hourly could still mean exempt or non-exempt though. Wish the LW used those terms to avoid this confusion in the comments.

      Reply ↓
  25. mango chiffon*

    If the company environment is such that contract employees are giving non-exempt hourly workers work outside of working hours, then the company needs to hire someone to work the non-working hours. OP it is unacceptable for you to be doing overtime work and to not get paid for it. I would be doing the exact same thing as Jane, and you should too. If you’re getting an avalanche of work over the weekend, there is something fundamentally wrong with how your company is setting up workload.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      100%. If there’s a bunch of stuff coming in over the weekend, that means they should probably hire someone to be available during that time. If it’s mostly just things piling up during the week, they should hire more people to handle it.

      Reply ↓
  26. Sloanicota*

    I live in a big striver metro area and everyone I know thinks nothing of working on the weekend and in the evenings. They’re all “live to work” types here. I hate it. Yet they all say the same thing, “Oh, I prefer it because it means my inbox isn’t so overwhelming / it’s really great to work when nobody’s pinging me” (that’s the exact way they all phrase it, it’s like they’re reading from the same script). What they don’t realize is that everybody’s individual actions normalize the “culture” OP’s referring to.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I mean, it is much nicer to work when nobody’s pinging me. But I deal with that by blocking my calendar when I need to concentrate and telling people I’m not available unless there is an emergency (and in that case, call me, because I’mma be ignoring your e-mails and IMs).

      Reply ↓
  27. Owl-a-roo*

    Could you and Jane stagger your shifts to offer a wider timeframe of administrative coverage? For example, if you work 7 AM to 3 PM and Jane works 10 AM to 6 PM, you’ll both work eight hour days and guarantee that at least one of you will be there for the contract folks who need help a little earlier or later in the day.

    Additionally, a reset of the contract employees’ expectations might help – unless it’s an industry that needs to be on 24/7, it’s not reasonable for them to expect instant support at any moment. If it IS a 24/7 industry, then the company needs some kind of (paid!) on-call rotation.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I don’t think that would work because they both have different jobs for the most part. Jane schedules appointment and OP processes payments. The OP says they are both hourly and have different duties with her role having more responsibilities. And they both pick up other tasks.

      Reply ↓
  28. Seen Too Much*

    Exactly what Alison said – As HR I physically winced when you said flex time. “Flex Time” isn’t technically illegal, but there are very strict parameters – like it has to be in the same work week, it can’t be mandatory, and both parties have to agree. It sounds like this isn’t what you are talking about – especially if you are working unplanned hours over the weekend.

    Your company can face some pretty heft fines for not paying you OT rates for the hours you are working. Your company is lucky that Jane, or someone else, hasn’t reported them.

    Quite a while back, I worked for a company that did something like this. I was not yet in HR. Someone complained. They were audited. The company got a huge fine and had to back pay OT to a lot of employees. They agreed to 60% of all OT over the last 5 years. My back pay was over twice my annual salary. When I became HR, I brought this lesson with me everywhere. For small employers, I asked “Would you be able to survive if this happened to you?”.

    Don’t work for free.

    Reply ↓
  29. Sharon*

    Has your company agreed on turnaround time expectations for these tasks? As long as you and Jane are both meeting goals, it shouldn’t matter when you are available. Also, please note that if you consistently put in extra work to exceed turnaround times, people will start building their timelines based on the immediate response they are accustomed to getting, and not on the agreed-upon turnaround times. You don’t want that!

    Reply ↓
  30. Melicious*

    Based on what info we have, is anyone else wondering how many of those contractors should be classified as employees?

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      no because you can be a contracted employee. I don’t see it as being a freelancer.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      I’m not sure if LW means contractors as in “contract employee” or as in “these people are working as construction contractors”.

      Reply ↓
  31. AnonyNurse*

    I was part of a class action lawsuit against a hospital that was making us clock out for lunch breaks but not actually relieving us from work duty. It was just the work culture there. I left after a year.

    It was crystal clear they were violating the law (there were some documentation ‘tells,’ like when we had to address something during our “lunch” and thus weren’t able to actually clock back in because we were too busy, they had a literal log book for us to document that).

    They settled. After having only been there about a year, the check I received was nearly $5k.

    Don’t mess around with working for free! I am forever grateful for the people who sued; all I could see to do was quit.

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  32. Head Sheep Counter*

    The discussion around contractors in general has alarm bells going off for me unless I’m wildly mis-understanding

    Contractors = basically temp workers contracted to do x-task. Correct?

    Why in good gravy are they driving a employee’s schedule? The employee belongs to the company holding the contract… eg directing the work.
    Why are they sharing bonus’s? In my world that’s a bribe and big old conflict of interest (getting compensated for diverting work to someone who share’s their bonus… not that that is what was said but lets be honest… if Bob shares his bonus and Jill doesn’t… who are you sending work too???)

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    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Contract employees are not always temp workers and they can be working for the company. A contract employee is just someone who has a specific contract with that company to work X. Maybe it’s project specific but maybe not. It just means that after a specific time they have their contract renewed. For example you may have a group of say IT people that work for your company. Some of them may be on contracts. If things get tight or something happens they could more easily just not renew the contracts people, and then rehire contracts people when things are better financially.

      I don’t see where the contract employees are dictating anyone’s schedule. It’s just that they may have needs that arise outside of the standard work hours because they do not work the same hours. If it’s something urgent then they may have to contact someone right away.

      As far as sharing bonuses this may be something that is standard for their company. Instead of the boss getting the all of the money they give bonuses to the other employees that helped on a project. But bonuses aren’t written into their compensation. I don’t think its they are handing the OP cash, but rather the group is sharing in the funds. In fact OP might be looking at it as a favor when its not.

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      1. Head Sheep Counter*

        Its still a secondary company providing services. Correct? or the staff themselves are a “company” and providing services under contract. If at my work a subcontractor offered me goods or cash to share the “reward” of working for my company… it would be a major no no. Its hard for me to get a buffet lunch at a contractors office because of appearances and possible issues.

        If the contract is for work whenever and that the services my staff provided would be available whenever, then in this case Jane would be wrong and would need to understand the contract (and be compensated). However, it seems unlikely that a contract would be that loose. I would imagine it states business hours and that staff are available during normal business hours generally. For them to go up the management chain seems off.

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    1. bananners*

      I appreciate this so much. I worked in employee engagement at a small hospital (totally made up job, turned out) and they completely rejected my notion of properly training and empowering managers to create healthy work environments in favor of pizza parties.

      Reply ↓
  34. Possibly Literacy-Challenged*

    Am I reading this wrong? The LW states that she and Jane are in salaried positions, not non-exempt hourly positions. So she’s not owed overtime. It may be that the employees they supervise all are, but the general presumption of the salaried worker’s position is that they are not as wedded to the clock as hourly workers. It may be right that the non-exempt workers should not be working flex time or doing free work off the clock, but Jane’s slavish adherence to the clock is way out of the norm for salaried workers.

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    1. zinzarin*

      The only time OP uses any variation of the word “salary,” is when she mentions that both she and Jane “have had” salaried roles (i.e. in the past, before their current roles).

      I can only read that as meaning that she and Jane both have hourly roles currently.

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      1. phira*

        Salaried and exempt are not synonymous. There is a lot of evidence that LW and Jane are salaried non-exempt.

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  35. TeamJane*

    Go Jane!
    How an adult makes a complaint like this and thinks they are on the right side of the argument is beyond me

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  36. I heart Paul Buchman*

    Years ago our union ran a campaign against working unpaid. The gist was that if 4 people work an extra 10 hours, that is 1 full-time job that the employer doesn’t have to hire for. So working unpaid is keeping others out of work. I took it to heart.

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  37. Skimmer on the Loose*

    I first read this as “Are my longer arms unfair to my coworker?” I was dying to know the answer, which I’m sure would’ve been totally different from the answer to the real question.

    Reply ↓
      1. Head Sheep Counter*

        Surprise I’m an orangutan and my job is attracting zoo visitors… but I don’t like them… so I throw bananas and the visitors have stopped bothering me… I think my arms give me a chance for better aim.

        Reply ↓
  38. HonorBox*

    All of this should be addressed with HR and with your manager. If you’re exempt and salaried, there will be different expectations. If you’re non-exempt, they need to be compensating you.

    They can clarify with Jane. If you are both exempt, then they can address the fact that she’s going to need to occasionally spend a bit of time outside of regular hours to ensure those you support get what they need in a timely fashion. I’m less worried about those hours over the weekend, especially if those are not urgent items. You may prefer coming in Monday with less in your inbox. She might not care.

    If you’re non-exempt, I think your workplace needs to figure out how to address the support you provide to contractors with irregular hours. It may be that they need to tell Jane that she may need to provide that support from time to time, but will be paid for it. If there’s something important that sits because she knows she won’t be paid, that’s a business problem to fix so she can, because she should.

    And for you, LW, if you’re not going to be paid, step back and do what Jane is doing. If your business can’t compensate you properly and legally, make it their problem. Don’t give them free work.

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  39. Tau*

    I can’t remember whether I read this somewhere in the comments on AAM, but I found it a helpful way of thinking about this sort of thing and have really taken it to heart:

    There is a persona by the name of Work Tau. Work Tau is competent, efficient, fully dedicated to company interests, and will absolutely put in all their effort and go above and beyond to do their job. When I start working at a company, Free Time Tau has effectively negotiated a contract where the company exchanges money for 40 hours a week of Work Tau (or 40 hours + specific paid overtime, whatever you agree on).

    If the company wants to go beyond that? If the company wants extra time? They’re going to have to negotiate that with Free Time Tau. And Free Time Tau does not care about company loyalty, “but we’re a family”, “but it’s just this one project”, or any of that. Work Tau cares about it, but Work Tau is not present outside of contracted hours. If Work Tau is expected to show up any more than that, Free Time Tau had better be compensated for it in some way.

    It’s obviously not perfect, but I find it a useful mental model to balance being a good employee with protecting my own interests. And it sounds like Jane’s got a good Work Jane/Free Time Jane split going on, while LW doesn’t have quite the same clear separation.

    Reply ↓

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