open thread – March 14, 2025

by Alison Green on March 14, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. International trade*

    I need to vent. Badly. I’m at a loss how to handle this. I work in international trade and have for years. The current tariff situation has made my work life hell. Hardly anyone shows any sense of professionalism. I am regularly verbally abused by customers (including the c word), yelled at by my own coworkers and management. No one likes the tariff increases. I’m the messenger for all the increases. I provide US government issued publications on the increases, explain everything in clear bullet points, and I’m taking significant time to explain things on the phone. No one in management at my company is giving me any support with the verbally abusive customers. I’m told we can’t afford to lose business so there will be no pushback. When I told the person who called me the c word that I was hanging up until they could talk in a professional manner, that customer called my manager and said I had hung up without context. A coworker had heard the entire call (customer was yelling so loudly I had phone away from ear and coworker heard) and backed me up. I still got a talking to. Getting another job in the industry right now will still have enormous stress, and no guarantees about how customers will behave. I can’t avoid phone calls. I have to take them as they come through unless I’m at lunch, in the bathroom, or on another call. I’m the punching bag for the entire department and I’m sick of it.

    I have very good performance reviews and customers generally say good things about me. But even the good ones have pretty much lost their collective minds over the tariff situation over the last month or so. I’m falling behind in my regular work. Whenever I attempt to do it, there’s an urgent call, email, or meeting from upper management on the situation. I was reprimanded for falling behind on my regular tasks, but even when I point out all the stuff related to the tariffs is taking up my time, I’m told that if I was on top of things, I would be able to get regular tasks done. Other coworkers are in a seasonal lull and cover my desk when I’m out. I asked boss if coworker could take some of my simpler regular tasks and I was told no. The entire situation is that this whole thing is my fault and it’s my problem if I can’t keep up. I refuse to work extra beyond 30 min a day. I don’t take work home and don’t have any requirements to answer phone calls or emails outside of office hours (don’t have a work phone or laptop).

    1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I’m so sorry this is happening to you.

      You said, “Getting another job in the industry right now will still have enormous stress, and no guarantees about how customers will behave.”

      This is all true, I’m sure, but might getting another job remove the particular stressor of management not having your back and finding it acceptable for customers to call you the C word?

    2. Lurker*

      What does your direct supervisor provide as guidance for how to handle customers acting like this? If they have not offered any can you ask for some so your team can present a unified front. Let them know that you are experiencing a lot of verbal abuse and need support.

    3. Not A Project Manager*

      This is awful, and people should understand that these are Unprecedented Times around this stuff. I mean, it’s never happened like this before and the situation is unbelievably chaotic. (I’m a grant manager of federal funds so I’m there with you. Everyone wants answers, nobody has any answers, the people who might have once provided answers don’t even work there anymore). It sounds like maybe you need to get straight with your boss on how they want you to handle tariff stuff. Ideally, there would be a tariff czar in your office and you can punt to them if you’re still expected to handle all your regular workload as if everything is normal.

    4. Seriously?*

      Do you have a 2nd tier boss and HR person where you can outline the demand signal and the work load issue you are having and indicate that you need relief? That or take a week of vacation ( if you have it), designate your 1st line manager as the point of contact and let them live in your pit for the week. Companies will squeeze out what they can from you and I am sorry.

      1. RedinSC*

        I like this idea of taking a week off (maybe 2) and designating that front line manager.

        Are you close with your doctor (medical?) because I think I’d be able to go to my doctor and explain this and say I need a medical week off actually and she’s probably write a note.

    5. arctic tern*

      Honestly I don’t see many options besides grin and bear it and hope things blow over, or find another job. I know that’s probably really unhelpful but you’ve already asked for help or grace and your management has shown to be unreasonable. Unless there’s someone above them you can escalate to, I don’t really see what else you can do in this situation.

    6. Other Alice*

      I would still consider switching jobs. You are right that the situation with the tariffs and the customers will be the same, but management is treating you very poorly in your current position! They should have your back and at a minimum have your back when you have to deal with customer yelling obscenities at you, instead of reprimanding you. In addition they should recognize the increased workload you’re facing and find a way to get you help or divert some of your tasks. I would go back to your manager and outline those issues, but if they still won’t do anything then do consider a job search.

      1. Nebula*

        Yes, I second this. Do you know people who work at other companies in this industry? Could you put out some feelers and see how other organisations are handling it? The refusal to reallocate any of your tasks to other people (even though they are in a seasonal lull!) demonstrates poor management, and while the tariff situation will be the same anywhere else, the management situation is likely not universal.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah sometimes shitty external circumstances are enough to cause misery, even when management is supportive but OP is seeing their manager explicitly and deliberately fail them at exactly the time they most need their support. Sounds like a fair weather manager who was probably tolerable when everything was going well.

    7. Antilles*

      Never dealt with tariffs specifically, but I’ve done customer service and one thing I’ve found that sometimes helps in situations like these is not to “push back” or argue with the customers, but just to sound sympathetic while (politely) reminding them that it’s being made above your head.
      “Sir, I know you’re frustrated with the tariffs because I am too, you have no idea how much it stinks that the politicians are playing their games and you and I are stuck dealing with the fallout.”
      I’ve found this can sometimes really help cut down the abuse because they aren’t really frustrated with me specifically, just the situation. And reminding them of that can get them to calm down (and maybe even apologize) once they remember that I have nothing to do with it.

      1. Complaints*

        I agree. I used to handle valid but unactionable complaints the same way. As soon as possible I’d chime in “I totally agree with you” and it almost always took the wind out of their sails.

      2. PurpleShark*

        I don’t know if you are at all familiar with Dr. Harold Camping, but he had an old show on the radio where he would field calls about his prediction that the world was going to end. He had a specific date- sometime in 2011. People would call to ask stuff like, “should I go to graduate school if the world is ending?” They were serious too. Others would call and just unload on him. He was always calm and would say – as they were screaming- “thank you for calling and sharing” then he would hang up. Honestly, the main thing is to remain calm, which sounds like you are. I feel for you because that type of abuse is horrific. Also, I would agree as much as possible with them then they have nowhere to go with their “argument.” You have nothing to loose here and you don’t need to make any points with them.

        1. Polly Hedron*

          Harold Camping was allowed to hang up, but this poster has been forbidden to hang up.

      3. Landry*

        I would not use this language. You don’t know the political preferences of your customers and there’s a high risk that using that wording will be seen as an attack and just piss them off even more.

        1. Pine Tree*

          Yep, they could acknowledge their frustration and say that they are also frustrated, but I’d definitely stop at that. There are too many people who don’t understand the consequences of their votes, but this is not the situation to educate them about it (as much as you might want to….).

        2. Just say non*

          I have a feeling that the most unreasonable and unkind callers contributed to this mess themselves.

          1. DJ Abbott*

            I think so too. They don’t really get abusive, but my clients sometimes get upset and then I make sympathetic noises and agree that whatever it is they’re upset about is unreasonable. (It usually is!) Then I tell them what we can do together move forward, and go from there.
            It’s a working-class conservative population, so I’m sure some of them have contributed to this mess also. But bringing that up would just cause more trouble for them and me.

    8. Heffalump*

      If it makes you feel any better, if I were your customer, I wouldn’t kill the messenger.

    9. International trade*

      To answer multiple questions:

      I have gone to my immediate boss, his boss, and HR. No joy with any of them. HR is frankly useless. When I’ve asked how to handle the abusive customers, I’ve been told I just have to take it as we can’t afford to lose any customers. In other words, management has NO backbone. I also brought up the issue of being overloaded with my boss, his boss, and HR. Again, no joy. None of them either care or can’t comprehend how the tariff issue has taken over my days.

      I AM the tariff czar. I’ve provided scripts for coworkers to use with their customers and documents that detail it all in very simple language. They refuse to use the tools I’ve provided and every phone call or emails about the issue are thrown at me to handle.

      The abusive customers are already screaming when I pick up the call. I can’t get a word in to attempt to calm them down. When I’ve tried, I was told I was interrupting and to shut up.

      My coworkers have a huge lull in their workloads right now. I see them sitting around for huge gaps of time, gossiping or playing on their phones. I’ve always been helpful with anyone else in the office who needed it in the past. No more.

      I’m a department lead and I’ve been thrown to the wolves.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        When you get a screamer, put the receiver down on your desk. Don’t hang up or put them on hold. Just leave the receiver on your desk until they get bored with screaming. In the meantime get some work done.

        Also, I am no expert on this, but if management is allowing customer to call you sexual slurs, does this qualify as a hostile environment under labor law?

        1. International trade*

          I do this already. And coworkers who sit near me complain about the noise. I make sure to have the volume on my phone way up so everyone can hear even through the receiver is on my desk.

          1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

            Are these the same coworkers who transfer all the calls to you instead of using your scripts? If so…wow.

              1. bleh*

                The only way to make them stop is to not be there to take the calls. You need to take some days off, leave them with the scripts, and let them learn how to do it themselves. Pronto. They will continue to make it your problem until they can no longer do so. Get sick. Very sick, so that you need at least three consecutive days off. By then, they will have learned to take the calls themselves. And when you come back, transfer the customers right back equally to whoever took up the slack while you were gone – no mercy. I’m sorry this is happening to you.

        2. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

          This actually might work. Depending on your work setup, you may be able to mute yourself and put the caller on speaker or use a headset while you get other work done. If/when they say something worth responding to, you can always unmute.

      2. ICodeForFood*

        I’m so sorry you are dealing with this… I wish I had something more constructive to suggest, but know that your management and HR suck, and frankly, so do your coworkers if they are sitting around not doing much but refusing to help you deal with any of this.
        My take would be too start job-hunting, hopefully finding an employer with management that is willing to manage and has your back.

          1. Juneybug*

            The US Dept of Labor allows FMLA for mental health conditions (see “Fact Sheet # 28O: Mental Health Conditions and the FMLA” on their web site).

      4. Mockingjay*

        Let them rant. When they run out of breath: “I agree these changes are difficult for everyone; let’s discuss what I can do to help your situation. However, company policy does not permit verbal abuse of staff. If you continue shouting or cursing, this call will be discontinued.”

        Personally, I’d rip into the coworkers. Coworkers have the scripts and info, they need to use that and do their jobs. You’re not paid anywhere near enough to do their work as well as your own.

        Also, has your boss heard any of these calls? I’d conference them in and let them listen to a few. Or better yet, transfer them to your boss. “I’m going to escalate this to management, as you are a Very Important Customer and I want to be sure you are taken care of.”

        I am so sorry you’re enduring this, I wish I had more to offer than empathy and platitudes.

          1. bleh*

            I like the transfer them up or conference them in solution. Make it the bosses and/or your teammates’ problem too.

          2. DJ Abbott*

            Definitely, when a client gets upset and won’tlet me calm them down, I transfer them to a manager. The managers want to handle the difficult stuff, so I let them.
            I hope your managers won’t turn it back on you if you do this!

      5. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        How much of your regular work involves the phone? Since being on another call is one of the acceptable reasons not to pick up a new one, could you arrange things so that you’re on calls for your normal workload for a larger percentage of the time? Does your phone have a mechanism to see who is trying to transfer a call to you and then transfer it back without picking up?

        1. International trade*

          Regular workload involves some calls, as customers call, not this constant crap.

          1. Venus*

            I think the suggestion is to make calls out yourself (if you make calls) if there are times when the most abusive calls come in. “Sorry, can’t answer that call because I’m busy now on an important call with Persephone!”

            1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

              Yeah, that was what I was envisioning! But if you don’t get much opportunity to make outgoing calls, it’s not applicable.

              There are a few places I sometimes have to call that have very long hold times. I’ll often “save” those calls for times when I just can’t deal with the onslaught of people coming by my office to ask me for things. “Sorry, I’m on hold and need to be ready when they pick up.” If you know you need to make a call that requires you to hold for a while, it may help to do it during the worst periods for abusive callers.

              1. International trade*

                I don’t make many outgoing calls. I prefer to do my work on email, and for what I do a paper trail is needed.

      6. Tio*

        Hello! I’m a licensed customs broker who worked in 3PL for a decade before heading into the importer side.

        While nothing is ever perfect, I strongly encourage you to look into logistics on the importer side rather than in other 3PLs. If you’re licensed, NOW is the time. I have a position I love and I’m not leaving but I still have recruiters beating down my doors on linked in.

        Also, I guarantee you not all logistics companies are letting their people be treated this badly. This would not have flown at all in my last company. So maybe the company itself is what you want to change if you’re stuck in 3PL hell. I encourage you to look up your local NCBFAA chapter and attend a meeting or seminar, and check in with people there about how their company is handling things. This will help you pre-vet some of the companies if you decide to switch.

        Sorry your company sucks and big hugs from another import logistics professional!

      7. H.C.*

        If you have sick time accrued, take it – and ideally for a significant stretch (at least a week) so your workplace realize the burden you’ve been bearing & can’t simply push it off until your return (as would be the case w a shorter absence.)

      8. Sportsball*

        This isn’t the most helpful advice—and you know your own situation best—but honestly I’d just hang up and walk out the next time an abusive call comes in. Or rather, put the call on speaker as soon as they start acting up, ask your boss how to proceed, and when that fails, announce you’re quitting and that the caller is now your boss and colleagues’ collective problem. And then peace out.

      9. DJ*

        I’m really sorry to hear this as listening to a stream of abuse or complaints before getting to why they are calling is not only traumatising for you but also takes up valuable time you could be devoting to other work. You can be as empathic as possible, allow the person to “vent” which are all strategies that take up even more valuable time. And I’m sure you’ve pointed all this out to management.
        Good management especially if they have an org psychologist onboard would come up with some strategies. If your organisation has an EAP management/HR could go to them to see what they advise and for some strategies e.g. could they run a sessions for affected staff or are they considering running sessions on a fee for service basis for staff from several orgs or even recommend someone. I would imagine many ppl would be experiencing what you are given tariffs, funding cuts, longer waiting times due to staff cuts etc so you’d think some one would run a course.
        But your management are idiots. Not to let others who are going through a lull to chip in and do your other work. To abuse you for not getting other work done due to additional time taken up by these phone calls. Could the phone work be shared around? Although I get maybe not as you may be the SME.
        I’m so sorry you have to put up not only with the abuse but also unsupportive and incompetent HR and management.
        Yeah if you could take time off (can you have sick leave if they refuse leave) which may give them a wake up call!

    10. yams*

      Really do consider switching jobs, while the situation with tariffs is going to be the same wherever you go, the way your company and customer’s are reacting to it is not great. I am also in the same industry and if anything, this has brought the procurement teams closer together as we lean on each other to manage this whole mess. The way you are being treated is not OK.

    11. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

      That sounds awful. I understand that most jobs in international trade will likely be similarly stressful, but I have to hope that not all of them have management whose spines were manufactured by Haribo. Do you know anyone at similar organizations who can tell you how their management is handling things? Even if the “good” places aren’t hiring, maybe knowing they exist would be encouraging if you’re willing to consider leaving.

      Given how difficult your position is and how much they’ve dumped on you, I have to imagine you’d be hard to replace. Maybe this is wishful thinking because your managers do not seem like rational people, but could you see yourself going to them with a log of the calls over the last x number of weeks, the amount of time they took up, and the amount that is left for your regular work? You may have already done that, but at some point they will face the reality that they can’t have one person doing all of those things because of math. Maybe they’re the type of people who would FAAFO by firing you anyway – you would know that better than I would. But if they have two brain cells to rub together, that means you may have some amount of leverage.

      1. International trade*

        Yes, I would be difficult to replace. I forgot to mention that my regular customers I’ve handled for years are reasonable and express appreciation for the updates I send them, etc. They don’t yell. The screamers are the customers handled by everyone else.

        Thanks to the poster who mentioned transferring screamers to my boss. I just did that. He yelled at me afterwards for doing it. I sort of snapped. I bluntly told him he needed a taste of what I’m dealing with all day and why should I be the only one to have to just take it? I can be quite assertive at times and I’ve just had enough.

        2. Saturday*

          I’m really angry on your behalf. Yes, this situation is really difficult – but why is it all your problem?? Management should be grateful you’re dealing with so much, and instead they’re saying you’re not doing enough, and they’re angry when some of this stuff splashes on them? That’s completely outrageous.

        5. Seriously?*

          Send your supervisor every 3 screamer… and keep doing it until something changes! *big claps!

          1. Tabby Baltimore*

            For what it’s worth from an Internet stranger, I totally second taking this approach.

        6. Festively Dressed Earl*

          Good. You’re valuable, and it seems like everyone around you is forgetting that. Make sure you don’t forget it yourself; if you’re tempted. zone out during yet another undeserved dressing-down and imagine exactly what would happen if you weren’t there, in detail.

          Actually, you may want to have a family emergency or something so that your unsupportive coworkers and boss can see exactly how vital you are.

    12. Busy Middle Manager*

      If someone calls you a C and your boss is cool with it, then they’ve “escalated the situation” so to speak. You’re now free to hang up, be ruder, be pushy, etc. It’s not even malicious compliance. I’d liken it to one side of my family where people are generally loud and fight often and make up ten minutes after. I speak and conduct myself around them differently than with someone who’s quiet and polite. So from now on, you know it’s OK to be pushier with customers, and if you’re boss says anything you have the “you said it was fine for customers to curse me out, what do you want” to keep pulling out.

      As per your vent in general, agree. Trying to make it as a day trader? This has been my worst two weeks. I’m barely trading. I can trade a general down market. But I can’t short anything now because they were tweeting positive news before, causing things to rally hard out of nowhere. It feels a bit like purgatory.

      Though your situation is worse, mine has different layers of mental torture, the main one being that tariffs are the new scapegoat for every stock going down, meaning I have to do way more extra research into why some things are dropping than if the financial media just covered everything factually.

      1. Cheap ass rolling with it*

        Rather than be ruder, be pushy , etc. I wonder if it’d be wiser to note it down (or record the call) to create documentation for “hostile environment” and sending it to HR/boss ? And if HR/boss does nothing about it, can it be used for ammunition somehow? (Beyond my pay grade, sorry)

        If the OP swears at a customer, they’d probably be fired, and it would be hard to explain for the next job interview.

    13. Sybil Writes*

      I’m wondering if you could make a pitch to your management that in these unprecedented times, it could help customer retention to have a well thought out and implemented process for providing information updates and responding to queries. Routing questions to email rather than phone calls would (arguably) make it easier to provide consistent information and gather the most frequently asked questions, which could be proactively addressed on your website. Even if this had to be updated daily, it would save the wear and tear on you, in terms of personal attacks.
      This would probably be a terrible time for the company to lose you, an employee who has knowledge in this destabilized area that customers care about. Can you find a way to remind them that retaining you may be closely connected to retaining customers.
      Many companies have times when they need to send all calls to voicemail with instructions on how to get further information.
      It’s not ideal, but it is unacceptable to knowingly subject your front line to verbal abuse with no relief or support.

    14. Juneybug*

      I don’t think any of us readers would disagree that you are in incredibly difficult, should say impossible, situation.

      You could try one more time with an ultimatum with your leadership –

      You, in a meeting with your mangers:
      The tariff situation has significantly increased my work with numerous federal changes, increased time with bullet papers explaining these changes, and increased phone calls that take longer response time to clearly explain the new and quickly changing situations.
      Because of this, my routine tasks are falling behind. We are at a point where my routine tasks need to be transferred to other employees. This will allow us to keep current with the tariffs and help our customers understand the changes, as well have the routine tasks completed.
      The next four years will be consistent changes so our company needs to be adaptable and ensure we do not lose customers.
      We need to work out a strategy to get the routine tasks off the tariff expert’s expected duties so we can focus on the ever changing landscape. If we are unable to do that by the end of next month, then I will need to ___________________
      (stop doing routine tasks, stop answering phone calls with customers, or quit).

      At this point, you have explained the situation, gave them a solution (move routine tasks off your plate), and a deadline. If the leadership doesn’t fix this problem, then by all means either stop doing whatever tasks you decide in the meeting or quit.

      Good luck!

    15. gyrfalcon17*

      Is it possible to transfer the callers back to your coworkers who are *supposed* to be handling these? “XYZ is familiar with your account and will be able to answer your questions.” Or whatever is true about why these callers were connected to XYZ in the first place.

    16. JSPA*

      This isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. Officials have stated they’re trying to wear people down and get people to quit. They don’t want international trade to be painless, nor professional.

      “Given the circumstances, we are doing a near-heroic job of holding things together, and providing information” is your mantra.

      It is also what you tell shouty customers, right after a calm “let me stop you right there.”

      Followed with, “Now, how can you and I best proceed to salvage the situation, given that neither of us can alter policy decisions?”

      1. International trade*

        I don’t work for the feds. I’m not sure where you got that idea. I work for a third party logistics provider.

        1. JSPA*

          Current policy is about discouraging international trade. This is done by making it more maddening and byzantine and expensive for all parties. Not merely federal employees and contractors. Sure, they’re the front line; but a LOT of other people are being drenched by the same firehose.

    17. But not the Hippopotamus*

      I am so sorry. Maybe you can suddenly have bad reception. I can’t hear you.
      Are you there? Please try calling back when you have better signal. Thank you. Click.

      Probably not, but maybe for the more egregious ones.

    18. anon for this*

      YMMV, and this may or may not be possible depending on how visible your workspace is to your bosses, but when I had a job dealing with abusive clients I made bingo cards for myself with common insults, expletives, etc. Once I got bingo a certain number of times, I got myself a treat.

      It’s not a long-term strategy, and it won’t work for everyone, but it helped tide me over during a particularly difficult couple of months.

    19. DJ Abbott*

      I also deal with clients on the phone and visitors in person and have administrative assignments too. I did have to do some things to make clear that phone calls and visitors actually take time, to make management aware.
      But the managers now mostly have my back and have even rearranged the work for a few hours at a time if I get behind, so I can get caught up.
      Your managers are putting you in a bad situation where you can’t win. You need managers who support you and have your back. If you can’t get that at this job, you’ll have to find a better one. Like someone else said, another job in the industry may have the same stresses, but will hopefully have good supportive managers.
      If you haven’t already, maybe try keeping track of the time you’re spending on calls and urgent meetings, etc. and put that in front of your managers to show you need more time. But if that doesn’t work, you’ll have to get a better job.

    20. DJ*

      Would love to hear what Alison thinks by answering this as a reader question. Are there external resources i.e. workshops, reading etc that can help workers in this situation as there are a lot of them. For example those who deal with impact of tarrifs like this LW, impact of funding cuts, cuts to services, lengthened waiting times due to staff cuts etc. Resources of what management could do to support affected workers. Alison would love to hear your insight.

      1. Internationl trade*

        I don’t work for the feds. I work for a third party logistics provider. No one I work with has reported any issues dealing with the feds due to any staff cuts, etc.

  2. Controlled by your spouse's job*

    Has anyone here been made to do things by your spouse’s job? (I don’t mean like moving around as a military spouse, I mean in a corporate setting.)

    My husband is trying to get out of public education, and is two interviews deep for a role as a learning coordinator at a facility that works with at-risk youth. They are explicitly requiring that nobody in the household use social media, claiming it’s for our safety and their liability. This includes LinkedIn.

    Our finances hinge on the fact that he can work his low-paying passion job because I work in tech and bring in good money. Using LinkedIn has been key to promotion/progression for me, and staying visible on it is essential for the health of my career. Him accepting yet another low-paying job that now also wants to hobble MY ability to earn is completely unacceptable to me. This is obviously causing friction at home.

    Thoughts?

    1. UpstateDownstate*

      I’ve never heard of this. Would they have the same requirement if he was living with a roomate and not a spouse? Or what if they didn’t even know he was married? OR, what if your job required you to promote the company and your services over LinkedIn or Instagram? What about that? I agree that it’s an overstep and it’s not like he’s working for a three name agency jeez.

    2. HannahS*

      That is an absurd requirement. I frequently work with agencies working with at-risk youth and that’s not a requirement for their staff–even less for their spouses! The staff are not permitted to connect with youth over social media for obvious reasons related to professional boundaries, but that’s so far off from what this facility is doing that I’d take it as a big red flag of this facility as an employer.

      1. PurpleShark*

        My brother worked at a prison. This was not a requirement for him or his spouse. I am uncertain as to why this would be an issue for this job site.

        1. A Reader*

          I agree that understanding the reason might help OP and their family decide whether this is a reasonable ask or not (in general – it seems like this won’t be possible for this household, given OP’s need to use LinkedIn).

          If the reason is for protection of the agency’s clients, wouldn’t a policy prohibiting both the employee and their family/friends from posting about clients, or even about their association with the agency suffice? (Of course, people might violate that policy…but they also might violate this more restrictive policy that the agency evidently has!)

          If the reason is for protection of the employee against anyone who might have ill will towards the agency, its employees, its mission, etc. and might seek out employees/their families etc. on social media to threaten or harass them, then (a) I’d assume that would have been explained (since it would suggest that this role could cause harm to come to the employee/people associated with the employee, which would be important information for prospective employees to know!), and (b) it would be troubling if “no social media” is the agency’s only step to protect employees/their families etc.

      2. DJ*

        And spouses etc not being permitted to connect with youth over social media etc would be fair enough. But I wouldn’t imagine LW wanting to do this!
        I know that some govt employees can’t make political comments on social media, and in other jurisdictions can’t speak as a representative of the dept but purely has to post as a private citizen. But posting about cats, I’d be serving a life sentence otherwise, or a spouse marketing to get clients for their job wouldn’t fit into this.
        Sounds ridiculous but I’m not an expert.
        But on a serious note could this be part of what’s being brought in by the current administration? Anyhow still sounds ridiculous and why should you have to give up your well paying job for your spouse to work in this particular job.

    3. Shirley Keeldar*

      My thoughts are:

      A) this is utterly ridiculous, and a company that crosses boundaries in such a silly way right up front is not going to be good to work for.

      B) How on earth would they know what you, the spouse, are doing on LinkedIn? Tell your husband to blink vaguely at them and say, oh, that must be some other Alexandria Constantine, not my dear and beloved life partner.

      1. Kay Tee*

        Right?! Is this just an unenforced CYA? Like “sorry your spouse got harassed on LinkedIn by a disgruntled/in-crisis former client, but we told you not to even have one”

        1. MsSolo (UK)*

          It has a whiff of a policy response to a specific incident to me – someone was tracked down through a spouse’s linkedin, for example (if the spouse runs a business from home then the address would be easy to acquire, especially if it’s a business that doesn’t lend itself to using a PO box instead)

    4. Kay Tee*

      Huh??? I know people in social services, healthcare, and similar client-facing fields are careful about social media, maybe using a nickname or middle name on their Facebook. There’s no reasonable way that extends to saying no member of the household can even USE ANY social media.

    5. DisneyChannelThis*

      That seems like a red flag for a bad job. It’s fine to say you can’t record content while at work, post about work publicly etc. But they can’t control what you do in your own time. Trying to control your spouse is a whole extra level of weird. Calling out linkedin specifically seems especially weird, most people just use it like a resume, not even posting any novel content to it. How would they even know?? Most people are semi private online.

      If he’s desperate for a job maybe stay in the running but it seems very red flag to me.

    6. SB*

      This seems bonkers to me. I’ve had to do my share of background checks, fingerprints, and training on things like the Hatch Act (related to political activity) but never anything about my family or their social media. That would be a non-starter for me. My partner owns a small business in our community and has a very active social media presence around that business.

    7. Parenthesis Guy*

      There are definitely are jobs like that where there are restrictions on what the spouse can do. Finance for example.

      I would also say that’s largely besides the point as you described in your last paragraph. Hobbling your ability to earn when you’re making so much more than he does simply doesn’t make sense. Reasonable people would understand this. The fact that your husband doesn’t is the main red flag here.

      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        An ex-colleague of mine had to announce that she couldn’t be on social media any more because her spouse was appointed as a judge, which makes sense if you think about the potential for conflicts of interest. It’s a ridiculously strict requirement for almost anyone else, though!

      2. Strive to Excel*

        There’s also the point where the finance jobs that restrict you like this are either a) career-making prestigious, b) pay well, or c) both. As mercenary as this sounds I find it very unlikely that a job counseling at-risk youth is going to pay well enough to make up for Controlled’s income reduction.

      3. Clisby*

        Yeah, my husband works in fintech and there are restrictions on what I can do as far as buying/selling stocks. But that’s a much narrower concern than what social media I can engage in – they don’t care.

    8. librarian*

      This sounds more like a cult than a company… Not even trying to be funny! This is a serious red flag, both for you and for him (and, honestly, for the youth they work with.) Maybe I’m overreacting but this just seems so out of the realm of normalcy to me.

      1. Grenelda Thurber*

        Same here. Taking this job requires that no one who lives in his household is ever allowed to use social media? Ever?? That’s ludicrous. I’m hoping these people just don’t understand how integrated social media has become in our day-to-day lives, or they don’t realize how many things are, in fact, social media.
        In my head I’m going back and forth between just saying “no thanks” and walking away, or “Sure, no problem” then continuing to use whatever the family wants/needs. Can you imagine the conversation, “Well Fergus, it’s come to our attention that your 14-year-old daughter has been using SnapChat to talk to her friends, and your wife is participating in a private Facebook group for adult fans of LEGO. As you know, a condition of your employment here is blah blah blah…”

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          Re: not realising how many things qualify as social media – are they not allowed to look at book reviews on Goodreads or videos on YouTube? A lot of people who have social media accounts use them purely to look at content, so what if you’re not interacting with anything beyond consuming the actual content? And how would the employer even tell that someone’s spouse was in violation of that rule if they never actually posted anything? The whole rule seems bizarre and unworkable.

        2. DJ*

          Using social media is not just for the fun of it, it’s also a terrific tool for finding interest, hobby and social groups, and to find out news and information quickly. Want to be kept in the loop with what’s happening locally? Your local facebook/social media page. It even lets you know when there’s transport hassles to allow you to adjust your leaving times/work arrangements. And they are asking both parties to give this up!

      2. DTC*

        “cult” was my first thought as well. there’s a history of cults and cult-like groups springing up in organizations that serve at-risk youth in particular (keywords for research: “troubled teen industry”, “Élan School”)

    9. Stuart Foote*

      I understand why they would want this, but this seems like an utterly insane requirement. Imagine if a parent of three teenage kids was applying for this job–good luck with that! Not to mention it’s ridiculous to expect that spouses won’t even use LinkedIn.

      Your husband is wrong here and it’s not close. I’m sure his heart is in the right place, but I’d be pretty annoyed with him.

    10. Ellis Bell*

      This is absolutely not a thing in safeguarding circles. They are either hugely out of touch, or it’s a misunderstanding about their social media policy, like simply not mentioning them on social media or something else within the realm of reason.

    11. StressedButOkay*

      Oh, this is just weird. No, this is not at all normal and is a giant red flag at how this company is going to walk all over you and your husband. That’s a huge “no personal life” red flag right there.

    12. Cabbagepants*

      It’s nuts in this situation. bananapants. loony.

      I have heard of spousal restrictions when there are high-level security clear

    13. thatsjustme*

      Like everyone else, I find that requirement to be an overreach, and I don’t understand the reasoning. Assuming you and your husband are both understanding the policy correctly, it might be useful to ask the hiring manager or HR recruiter how other people have handled that upon getting hired. It’s hard to imagine that other spouses or roommates have simply shut down all their accounts to comply with this. Whatever the answer is, that could give you some insight about how this place operates.

      Mostly, I suspect this isn’t the only weird thing about this employer, so you may discover some other red flags that make it easier to walk away.

    14. Lindy Hopper*

      Echoing others here – my spouse’s entire family works in social services in some capacity and many of them work in residential care for youth with severe behavioral disorders, so firm boundaries between staff and the youth they serve are extremely important for everyone’s safety. None of them have ever been asked to be completely off social media themselves as employees, though this feels like a more-reasonable request to me, and certainly none of their employers have ever required that their entire household be off social media. This is a bananas request.

    15. Retail Dalliance*

      Um, that is bonkers????? Nobody in the house can use LinkedIn? That’s insane. That’s actually a red flag about this organization imo, because they utterly fail to see how they’re crossing boundaries left and right. You should be able to have any social media account you want. You’re not working with the youths.

    16. Juneybug*

      When I worked at the state Department of Revenue, few of our staff had alias names for their protection (think tax auditor for very large corporation that you probably purchase variety of items where they ship to your home).
      Could your husband do that instead of making this situation a “your problem”?
      BTW, I was never asked to remove any social media, including my spouse, when I worked for them.

    17. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      This is absurd. I could understand not using social media and mentioning the kids he would work with and that pictures would not be shared. But I don’t think this is legal. What if you had a job that was working with social media?

    18. Hyaline*

      To be 100% honest, my first thought is “someone misunderstood or misrepresented the policy.” Because permutations of this–that no one in the household can mention the organization on socials, or that your spouse can’t have social media or must lock down privacy settings completely, or that you couldn’t bring WiFi enabled devices to work, or any number of other variations seem reasonable, but this blanket ban simply does not. Without a more complete explanation of why (and how) they enact and enforce this policy, I’m sitting here thinking “no way this is accurate.”

      I’m also going to very gently say–it sounds like this the discrepancy in your earnings is a point of tension, and I’d suggest discussing that separately from whether this job is a reasonable one. A lot of your word choice suggests that you are not happy or comfortable with his career choices vis a vis yours–“he can work his low-paying passion job” and “yet another low-paying job” are making me think that there may be some underlying resentment or frustration (and possibly really understandable!) that could get in the way of discussing this one weirdsmobile job requirement.

      1. Controlled by your spouse's job*

        Regarding your second paragraph: my word choice was meant to indicate my disgust with the way NPOs take advantage of the marriage dynamic (though I acknowledge that we are opposite the usual gender roles). It’s so common for a low earner in this field to need to be propped up by a spouse, so for this role to try to stick their fingers even further into that pie feels particularly egregious. My resentment is directed systemically, not at my husband.

    19. Corrupted User Name*

      This is not normal, even for social service type jobs. I work in a non-clinical capacity in healthcare but have many friends and colleagues who are clinicians and social workers, including people who work with at-risk youth. It’s not a thing. Sometimes the clinician will limit/lock down social media use and accounts, but I’ve never seen or heard that being asked of spouses. Case in point, the husband social worker friend just recently posted on social media about his wife winning a social work award!

      I’d agree with others that this is entirely unreasonable, unenforceable, and probably indicative of a weird and broken culture. Your husband would be best to stay away from this organization for many reasons!

    20. Qwerty*

      I’ve run into restrictions twice, but not about social media

      1a. Finance – Both my almost-spouse and I were in trading jobs that had restrictions on our participation in the market. The easy solution was to only buy diversified funds (like ETFs or Indexes) or outsource it to a finance person so that we’re weren’t involved in making any decisions. If someone close to use like a sibling or parent got caught making suspicious trades, regulatory agencies would have assumed that we were involved, so we made it a point to never talk about stocks or company valuations with anyone.
      1b. Finance – Marrying a direct competitor almost had some issues and could have restricted what projects I could be on at work ( I was a dev, he was a trader). Fortunately there turned out not to be overlap between his work and anything our company had, so it worked out.

      2 – Gov Security Clearance – My level of clearance would have put restrictions on my spouse if I’d had one. I can’t remember what it would have been since I ended up being single the whole time at that job, but I do remember some grumbling from coworkers about having to say to their wives for some things.

      That said – if a job requirement impacts a spouse, the spouse needs to be on board or its an automatic no. It might be an easier discussion if you treat this the same as if the job required the family to move to another state. It puts too much hardship on your ability to do your job, so I’d recommend mourning this an opportunity that wasn’t a good fit.

      I do understand the reasoning behind the requirement and hope that your spouse has thought through the implications of WHY they feel a need for that policy. This group is worried about your safety – that means both of you should take that risk seriously.

    21. JSPA*

      Linked in… I’d imagine that depending how you use it, it might not be traceable to a location, and also not link you to him (unless you share a rare last name). If so, they might not need to count it, as it’s really more professional networking media than social media? Especially if you are willing to gate it so that only people you approve have access to much of the info (many people seem to do this) and you don’t approve people who are not known to you / not willing to explain why they are connecting.

      I’m guessing they are far more worried about slices of family life on youtube, tiktok, Facebook, and the other “social” socials.

      If not? No, this isn’t tenable. He can’t choose his job over yours, unless he’s choosing it over you, and moving out.

    22. Notmorningperson*

      My suggestion is to get the policy in writing and if you can, run it by an employment lawyer to see if it’s enforceable (I know it costs money but in some places the law society has limits of lawyers who will do a short first consult free or cheap. If it’s not enforceable, maybe don’t worry too much.
      I worked for government and we couldn’t politically campaign, donate, have election lawn signs, or represent other people in front of the government (we could appear for ourselves). But they specifically said they couldn’t reasonably require the same of spouses.

    23. Redaktorin*

      This sounds like a husband problem, not a work problem. Are the people telling your husband his spouse can’t use LinkedIn absolute weirdos? Sure. But the bigger issue is the “friction at home”: It sounds like he’s prioritizing a poverty-wage job for these absolute weirdos over your career and financial well-being.

    24. Bubbly*

      He needs to find a different job, what concerns me about their requirements is the fact they claim it’s for your safety and their liability which means something happened to warrant such a hard stand. My husband worked in a psych hospital, and he made sure to keep all our personal information secure so none of the patients had access to our online or physical presence.

    25. iglwif*

      This seems absolutely bananapants to me. I know a lot of folks who work in education, social services, and health care; most have some kind of restrictions on what they can post (like you don’t post pics of your students, you don’t share things clients or patients told you, etc—the obvious stuff) and/or use a variant name on social media so they’re less easy to find, and/or keep their social media accounts on private … but I’ve NEVER heard of anything like this even for the employees themselves, never mind spouses!!

    27. goddessoftransitory*

      Uh…what?

      If there were regulations about what you could POST on social media, okay, I could understand the reasoning behind that. But–what? You can’t get Facebook notifications, watch streaming, join a group chat? At all?

      If that is indeed the requirement, it is ridiculous and unworkable, period.

  3. BJH*

    I started a new job 6 weeks ago and I can’t figure out how to get my momentum. I don’t have enough work to fill the day — I worry it’s because I don’t know how to jump in and what to take ownership of/who is doing what, so I have trouble identifying what to do. It’s 100% remote (which is new for me). It’s a small start-up, and my role is new to the company. Are there actionable things I can suggest to my manager? She seems awesome, but I don’t want to just come to her with a vague feeling or complaint.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Since its a new role, would it be reasonable for you to have short 1-on-1s with lots of other employees? 20 minute “what do you do and how can this role support you” conversations?

      1. crookedglasses*

        Spinning off of this, is there anything else you can do to deepen your understanding of the company? Join other team meetings? Do a ridealong on client meetings/projects/whatever might be relevant? That might help you start building out a better sense of where is appropriate and helpful to plug in.

    2. Not A Project Manager*

      This is very normal! I would go to your manager with ideas of what you think might be reasonable for you to take on, but make it a conversation. “At this point I’ve been here six weeks, and I think I’m ready to start managing the X project and keeping the Y spreadsheets up to date.” You can say “I have some time on my hands and could take on Z” if you think that drives it home, but I generally hold back on that a little if I’m afraid she’ll start “dumping” crap on me if I say it. If she has nothing to offer and doesn’t seem concerned, or disagrees with everything you suggest, well then I guess you don’t have to feel guilty if you spend your time reading AAM or making pies for Pi Day.

    3. LadyMTL*

      Can you talk to your manager and say that you feel a bit unsure as to what you’re expected to do? If your job is a new role it could be that she doesn’t quite know herself, and it might be helpful for the both of you to work through it together.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I would just lay the situation out for your manager and see what she suggests. “I’m finding I still have time left over after I’ve completed X, Y, and Z. Are there other things you’d like me to work on? If there are certain kinds of work I can just jump in and take on when I’m done with my other work, let me know–I’m happy to be proactive, but don’t want to step on anyone’s toes.”

    5. Valerie Loves Me*

      Since you’re so new I wouldn’t worry yet about the workload and expanding on the advice given, take the opportunity to learn the infrastructure of the organization… Meet colleagues for coffee, learn about what they do, about what you might be able to help with or support. Take the time to get to know the technicals — operating systems, shared documents, website, etc. Read anything you can get your hands on that acclimates you to the work the company does and/or what your position might be able to accomplish (podcasts from others in your situation or what you might like to accomplish while you’re there.) My guess is as time goes on, you’ll have less opportunity to shape the work you do, so it’s a perfect opportunity to find out how you do want to shape it and then present it to your boss? :)

    6. Bess*

      In some areas, it weirdly takes some time before you’re really full to capacity, because the projects you would/will own take time and conversations to get started, because they’re subject to things outside your control…but 6 weeks in is a good time to bring it up with your manager, not as if it’s a problem, but just letting them know you could handle more, you’re wondering if you could work on “x” or “y” to pitch in…just start the conversation. If your leadership is super-busy, they may need prompting to realize your workload is staying really light.

    7. RagingADHD*

      In addition to the other suggestions, you might ask your manager about the larger ebb and flow of workload during the year (or business cycle) and ask what you can be doing now to prepare / make things easier during the next crunch time. That might include reviewing past projects or documentation to identify those opportunities yourself, but you probably need your manager to direct you where to look.

    8. NotmyUsualName*

      When I started at my current role our department was in flux and I had to push for my own training. I kept a spreadsheet of things I had been working on, things that I had been trained on, things I had heard might be part of my job that I had not yet been trained on.

      I sent it weekly to my supervisor so she was in the loop. It worked really well.

    9. Beth*

      Especially with it being a small-startup and your role being a new role, this makes sense! I had a similar issue in a past role and it was 100% because they needed me to be the type to jump in and claim ownership of things (I was pretty junior and more used to being assigned work by a manager, so it took me a while to catch on).

      Some things that worked for me:
      – Talk to teammates. Learn about what they do. Think about how your skill set might support that. Offer to do those things. (D0n’t wait for them to ask–they likely won’t know what’s OK to ask for, since your role is new.)
      – With most startups, the company isn’t doing all of the standard industry practices. Sometimes there’s a good reason not to. But often it’s just that no one started it. It took me a while to learn that I could just tell my manager, “I think X would be good for our team–any concerns with me setting it up?”
      – Startups don’t always have a standard 8-9 hour work day. See if you can feel out what counts as ‘normal’ hours on your team. You might find that you’re actually in line with expectations.

      1. Another Startup Person*

        As someone also in a 100% remote startup, yes, please jump-in and ask around.

        “I think X would be good for our team–any concerns with me setting it up?” is a great idea.

  4. Not A Project Manager*

    My boss and I don’t quite see our project management the same way. We have a big spreadsheet with tasks and dates. However, she likes to put lots of interim dates including “review document before the Thursday meeting” so she will put the date she wants to review (weds) as the next due date. That’s fine, but it means every week there are all these urgent-seeming “due dates” on the spreadsheet that are not actual real deadlines. I think this obscures the actual important date, the deadline of the project, say, at the end of the month. Is there a way to handle this that lets her use the spreadsheet to track these micro-steps without making me crazy?

    1. Jen with one n*

      Can you add an option for ‘milestones’ for each tasking? That would allow her to track her review deadlines or key dates, while still keeping your ultimate deadline date included.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I second color-coding and, if you choose that method, excel can filter by cell color* so you can filter out the interim deadlines and see just the hard deadlines if you want to.

        *filtering by cell color doesn’t work in the online version of excel last time I checked but it works in the desktop app

        1. Not A Project Manager*

          We do actually color code, but the system is that everything “due” this week is red – meaning it looks dang bloody most weeks because there’s always a “due date” for this week, but it’s her doing something very small like “reread the Z file.”

          1. Mutually Supportive*

            I’d have a column for “interim deadlines” and another for “real deadlines”, then just ignore (or even hide) the first column

            1. Jazz and Manhattans*

              I agree or add another column “other – your text here” with a check/yes for those Boss tasks and then a condition for the conditional formatting that excludes anything that has a check/yes in that column.

    3. Peanut Hamper*

      Excel has cell styles the same way that Word has paragraph and character styles.

      You can define separate styles for “final due date” and “interim due date” and apply them as you need to.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think my answer is probably “don’t use a spreadsheet”. There are plenty of project-tracking systems that allow for subtasks like “pre-review before meeting” under the main task. And lots of them have free license tiers for small organizations if you’re concerned about cost.

      If moving off a spreadsheet is non-negotiable, then can you add an extra column for those not-really-a-deadline-deadlines? Or just add an extra row for the pre-review task.

      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        That was going to be my advice – why are we using Excel for scheduling/task management? Plenty of other available programs that provide visual project timelines including intermittent deadlines!

        If it MUST be, I would color code all deadlines differently.

        1. Dinwar*

          The problem is, who’s this being communicated to?

          If I’m tracking stuff internally, sure, other software works well. However, if I’m presenting this to a team, often Excel is the best way to present it. Especially if it’s color-coded. The folks on my teams generally are not used to looking at Microsoft Projects outputs or the like. They like seeing color-coded data.

          The other issue is ease of use. If you’re used to working with Excel, learning a new program will require time, effort, and energy you may not have to put into learning a new way to do the same thing. For the stuff I do a Gannt chart isn’t more useful than an Excel table; it’s often less so, in fact, precisely because it does so much more.

      2. arctic tern*

        As a new manager currently using Excel for schedule tracking, can someone share some of these alternative systems? We use Microsoft Project on a higher-level project management scale (above my team), but I want to take that info and put it into a more easily digestible format for my team’s SA. I know Project has some of that functionality but I find it to be a clunky program to use.

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Jira, Confluence, Asana, Monday, etc.

          There are still a lot of people who are trapped in the mid-2oth-century mental model of PERT vs Gantt, when modern tools allow much more flexibility, nuance, customization.

        2. MsM*

          Smartsheet is pretty good for this. We don’t make as much use of the subtasks option as we probably could, but we do have a bunch of ways to tag what type of task something is and where it is in the development/review process so we can filter as needed. (We’ve also got a soft versus hard deadline column, which might help OP.)

        3. CTT*

          A client I work with used Trello for a project that had a lot of people involved and we were impressed by it.

        4. Seamyst*

          I’m in research administration and just started using Microsoft Planner to track to-dos and stuff I do regularly with lots of interim steps and deadlines (like coordinating proposals). You can create an overall plan with lots of individual tasks, add deadlines to those tasks, and assign them to people in a group. I like it so far!

          1. arctic tern*

            Looks like we’ve got this incorporated into our Teams, so I’ll definitely check it out!

            1. MJ*

              I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing something recently that this program is being pulled from some of their packages in the near future.

    5. Cheeruson*

      Can the formatting for the not-really-a-deadline dates be something different (color, font, background) to distinguish them from the actual deadlines? I used the color idea once for a group spreadsheet that our manager insisted couldn’t be separated by team member so everyone could focus on only their assignments if they chose.

      1. DepressedFed*

        This is weird (and not nearly the most important thing going on), but I work in DC and my agency had a pretty casual dress code until the transition. Now, I’m super wary of any unknown people in suits in our building (and on the streets) even though I know a lot of people (including some of those I work with) have changed their dress code to match/adapt.

        It’s connected to how, overall, there’s a huge sense of distrust with anyone you didn’t already know.

        It’s exhausting.

    6. juliebulie*

      Hmm… I don’t think it’s micro-managy to want to review things on a specific date. It’s not weird to have deadlines for lesser milestones – first draft, internal reviews, etc. etc. in fact it’s pretty normal in my experience.

      If some of these deadlines are too aggressive or unrealistic, then that is something you need to talk about. But the fact that they are on a spreadsheet and that they are called “due dates” or “deadlines” instead of, I don’t know, “interim progress dates” is quite reasonable.

      Frankly, I’ve made way more money at companies that plan carefully, to make sure things are on track and not starting to slip. So I’ve learned to “like” the detailed schedule.

      1. Not A Project Manager*

        I think the issue is just not tracking which deadlines are completely pushable / arbitrary versus the ones that are completely NOT pushable. I guess you could in fact implement each arbitrary deadline as if it were “real” but my boss understandable doesn’t, and often ends up just bumping the “review Z file” task to next week.

        1. Beth*

          You really need multiple categories for this. I’d try to break down your project into a few levels:
          1) Project milestones: Major goalposts that let you track progress on the project as a whole. You’d escalate quickly if one of these was at-risk of delays or incompletion. An example might be “Have complete user documentation for the new release.”
          2) Milestone tasks: Things you need to do to make each milestone happen. Any one of these might be delayed for a week without a problem, but you’d probably escalate if you noticed a pattern of these getting pushed back. An example might be “Create file X to document new feature X”.
          3) Subtasks: The to-do list for each milestone task. I wouldn’t normally track these on the project, but it sounds like your boss wants to, so, whatever. Examples might be “Draft file X,” “Spellcheck file X,” “Review file X with dev team to ensure accuracy,” “Manager signoff on file X”. Each of these could be pushed around pretty significantly without delaying the project

          It sounds like you’re using Excel to track things. In that system:
          1) I’d keep the due date boxes with bright colors for level 1. On this level, knowing that something is due soon/due now/past due is important for project tracking.
          2) I might also keep the colorful dates for level 2 if the tasks have individual due dates that matter for project tracking. If not, I’d stick to a “status” column (e.g. “not started,” “in progress,” “blocked,” “complete”) to monitor for progress, and assume the milestone due date holds for all tasks in that milestone.
          3) For level 3, I’d definitely skip due dates. I might keep a status column, or might simplify to a ‘done’ checkbox.

      2. Dinwar*

        That was my take as well. Having dates for project milestones is pretty standard–it breaks big projects up into manageable pieces, and allows people to see what the actual next step is. Especially since there are often trickle-down effects on the schedule if you blow one deadline. Like, if drafting figures takes an extra two days that either eats into review time or pushes back the review due date by two days.

        If I know the due date is in six months I’m going to put off the project when more urgent things flare up. If I know that MY due date is in three days, even though the overall due date is in six months, I’m going to have a far greater sense of urgency.

        Something like a Gannt chart could come in handy here. You can see the overall project and the individual parts of it. If you do use Excel, as others said, you can color-code it.

    7. Debby*

      Not a Project Manager-if it is an Excel spreadsheet, could you or your manager color code it? Review dead lines could be in green, project due date could be in red-those are just some examples :)

    8. Artemesia*

      This is classic pert chart stuff. Back in the day the milestones along the way would have a different shape on the chart. could you have a way of distinguishing graphically the final deadline from the check ins along the way? Different font or a special shape that contains the final deadline e.g. deadline is starred but the checkpoints aren’t.

      It is a good idea to have interim steps. so how can you make sure the deadline stands out. It might be as simple as ALL BOLD CAPS if your system doesn’t have shape outlines or other ways to distinguish.

    9. Strive to Excel*

      I will say – I’m on the page with your boss! If she wants to review Wednesday, Wednesday is the actual due date.

    10. anonymouse*

      different software! we use pretty crappy software for scheduling and even it allows us to mute/conceal fields. so people who want to see all those sub-deadlines can see them, but I can set up my view so it only shows the final deadline.

    11. Exme*

      If you need this to remain a high-level spreadsheet where each project is only one line, add 2 columns: Next Step, and Next Step Deadline. She can add a single urgent interim date for each project. If she is trying to list more than one interim date, you might consider Project Management tools, something on the simpler like Smartsheet that will let you do expand/collapse lines with multiple substeps that roll up the dates to the main line.

    12. Combinatorialist*

      Can you have a column that is some kind of filter? Like could be `Task Type` and could have Deliverable/Next Step/whatever and then you can filter by the Type and only see the deliverable due dates?

    13. Nameless*

      I think there’s value in having a “final due date” column and a “next action due” column, so you can organize differently.

    14. Nameo*

      This would drive me crazy, too. Everyone else has lots of actionable suggestions, so I’m just here to commiserate!

    15. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      In your position, what I might do is make a new page on the spreadsheet, set it to duplicate what the first page says, and then make new columns or change the formatting on the new page, to look how I found most helpful. (The original page would stay how my boss liked it.) You’d just have to check from time to time that she hadn’t tinkered with the original page in such a way as to break the links.

  5. Caution: Scars at Work*

    Has anyone dealt with having somewhat obvious scars at work? I’m likely having surgery later this year to remove a benign salivary gland tumor. It’s still early days, so I’m not sure how in depth the surgery will have to be. From what they’ve said in the initial appointment, most of the length of the surgery is due to mapping and avoiding facial nerves. Regardless, the surgery will involve an incision around my ear and down my neck. In pictures I’ve seen (while trying to avoid too much of Dr. Google), they do a good job of making the incision where it’s as least obvious as possible, but still visible at first. I want to figure out ahead of time of how to deal with it at work if it is on the more obvious side, both with colleagues and clients, as I’m in a role with a lot of client face time. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it, especially as it’s not malignant and I’m not in danger, I just want to be prepared.

    1. No name yet*

      When I was in graduate school I had an infected cyst removed on my cheek, so I had a giant white bandage on my face for weeks. I could usually tell when people noticed it (it was hard not to!), but very few people actually said anything or asked. (Frankly, I was actually surprised about how few people mentioned it.) When people did ask, I would just cheerfully say that I had minor surgery, but everything was fine. IIRC, I don’t think anyone at work/school asked any other details (people who knew me more personally did, but in ways that fit our relationship). Also, the people who did ask were…those who I already knew had looser boundaries or who tended to be more blunt. So you may well already have a good sense of who’s likely to ask vs. not.

      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I have a few closer friends at work who I would probably tell ahead of time anyway, but a cheerful, “I’m all good now, thanks!” sounds like the way to go.

    2. GirlieePop*

      My sibling has a seizure disorder and has had some visible injuries (like stitches after hitting their head during a seizure) or incisions after procedures, and they’re always just pretty breezy about it with coworkers. “I had a procedure last week, but it’s not a big deal” or “I had a seizure last week and hit my head, but I’m fine and the stitches come out next week” and then they just change the subject.

      Most people they work with know about their disorder and that they have seizures sometimes so it’s maybe less of a big deal, but even when they were new, just indicating that it’s not a big deal and they’re fine usually worked! If people are pushy after that I think it’s fine to say “It’s really not a big deal and I don’t really want to talk about it.”

    3. Thoughts?*

      I have a reconstructed collarbone, an ACL self-harvest/replacement and an ACL donor replacement—the latter 2 both show with all my skirts/most of my dresses, while the collarbone shows with some tops.

      I never said anything to anyone. And few have asked. I figure (like with teenagers’ concerns) how I look is a bigger issue to me than to others—in fact folks can rarely correctly identify if it’s my glasses that have changed, or my haircut!

      And most folks know better than TO ask about physical/body changes. Those who don’t—well I always assume empathetic concern on their side and either answer with a “medical issue now resolved” or DETAILED response about the accident that caused the injuries depending on how spicy I’m feeling/who is asking. When I do the latter, few ever ask again when a new scar appears.

      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I am sure it will be much more obvious to me than it will be to anyone else!

    4. ghostlight*

      I have a prominent zipper scar down my chest from 3 different open heart surgeries that shows in any top that isn’t a turtleneck/crewneck. I’ve had some people ask me about it and they are never rude or pushy, and often they have had OHS or their loved one has. That being said, my scar definitely isn’t fresh so I think there’s a bit more of a chance of the ‘are you okay?!’ interaction. But I think handling it casually/breezily is the way to go! If you’re interested in covering it, there are silicone scar sheets you can buy, and you could always wear clothing or accessories to cover it (which I did when my scar was fresh mostly cuz it was it was sensitive).

    5. fhqwhgads*

      Most likely, if you just roll with it, so will everyone else. It’d be an incredibly rude person to comment. Incredibly rude people exist, but it’s probably not worth it to plan around them, unless you think it’d throw you off really badly such that you need a reply prepared and practiced.
      I say this as someone who -next week- will see coworkers for the first time after a major surgery with a very conspicuous scar, and I’ve been having anxiety about it EVEN THOUGH I know it’s a very conscientious group who will almost certainly not react in any way.

      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I’m not too worried about my coworkers (they are great!) but I might try to avoid a lot of client meetings for a few weeks if I can. They are also great, but a lot of them are on the older and sometimes ask things others might not.

    6. Ask a Manager* Post author

      My husband had thyroid cancer last fall (not the good one, but he had surgery and is cancer-free now) and came out of surgery with a huge incision all the way around the base of his neck. It looked like someone tried to behead him! But really, if someone tried to behead you and you survived, you are super badass. And it was right before Halloween so we just leaned into that.

      But assuming you don’t want to go that route, I think you can just say, “Oh, surgery for something benign, and I’m completely fine!” People really take their cues from you.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        I had a similar situation, though thankfully in my case, it was “only” papillary thyroid cancer and I was fine. I’m glad your husband is OK too.

        My mum took a photo of me wearing a witch’s hat, because yeah, it looked like somebody tried to behead me. I teach teenage boys, so of course they wanted to see it.

        I wore high necks for a while after the surgery, though I did pull it down a bit and let the boys see the scar when they asked. But I also told my colleagues in advance that I was getting my thyroid out. I think the only people who considered it could be cancer were people who themselves either had a thyroid cancer scare or knew somebody who had. Most people just assumed I’d an overactive thyroid or something.

      3. Funko Pops Day*

        A friend of mine also had thyroid cancer and made colorful neck scarves a big part of her personal fashion for a while afterwards.

        I’m glad your husband is doing well, Alison, and I hope you have a smooth procedure and easy recovery, C:SAW!

      4. nnn*

        If I’m getting the timing right that was right after your mom? I’m so sorry! I’m glad he’s doing ok.

          2. Hroethvitnir*

            Oof. My partner’s mother was potentially dying (ended up surviving but going into care) at the same time as I was having surgery for cancer, *and* we had multiple seriously ill cats. I feel you. It’s been 4 years and I think he’s still recovering.

      5. Clisby*

        Glad he’s OK! My sister had an incision like that from having a thyroid tumor removed when she was … I think, 8? It wasn’t cancerous, but the incision/scar was really noticeable while she was growing up. Now, nobody would ever guess.

      6. Sel*

        I’m so glad to hear your husband is recovered! I also had thyroid cancer about 10 years ago now, and my scar is still quite visible, and it’s fine. I’ve had a couple people comment on it at work but it was always someone else who’d also had a thyroidectomy and they said they felt less alone/it was nice to know someone else in their workplace who’d been through the same thing.

        To the OP of this comment, my aunt had surgery for (cancerous) tumors on her salivary glands a number of years ago, and her scars are hardly visible at all, if that puts you at ease. :)

        Good luck with your procedure! I hope everything goes well.

      8. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Not the good one? Is that the thyroid cancer, the surgery, or the husband? What’s the difference between the good and the bad one?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Papillary thyroid cancer = most common type, excellent prognosis
          Medullary thyroid cancer = rare, less good prognosis, and can be more aggressive

          He had medullary, but they caught it very early and seem to have gotten it all. (Interestingly, they only found it because he ended up in the hospital earlier in the year for emergency sinus surgery, and when they were doing a scan after that to make sure his sinuses looked good, they found something that looked weird in his throat and biopsied it. Otherwise they wouldn’t have caught it while it was still so early and small. So thank god for the sinus issues.)

          (There is also a third type, with a much worse prognosis than either of those. He had the one in the middle.)

        2. Irish Teacher.*

          Papillary thyroid cancer is often considered a “good” cancer as it has a near 100% survival rate, especially in younger patients.

      9. iglwif*

        So glad your husband is OK now! That IS a badass scar to have.

        I have old but still very obvious scars vertically from the navel down, due to 2 successive cancer-removing surgeries in my 20s. I don’t get a lot of comments because I don’t wear a lot of clothes that would show them, but when I’ve needed to mention them I take kind of an “it tried to kill me, I survived, let’s discuss something else” approach.

    7. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I had Mohs surgery on my nose and went back to work the next day. I had a bandage on my nose for a few days and then visible sutures for about a week. One of my coworkers asked if I was ok and that was it – no one said anything else. If someone had I suspect I would have stared them down, which is my usual inadvertent response when someone says or does something startlingly rude. I think it’s a blank look. I have been informed it is – not.

    8. VoPo*

      A couple of years ago, I injured myself (mostly my face, including broken teeth and needing stitches in my lip), and I basically just would preempt anything by saying “Hey! Just a heads up, I had an injury but I’m healing well!” and people were good about just moving on from there.

    9. Required*

      I have a fairly obvious scar on my forehead from a rugby injury. I have yet to have anyone ask me about it. I’m not client-facing, but I have gone to lots of conferences and external meetings. I don’t have advice besides just not bringing it up first, but I figured I’d provide another data point for your question.

    10. Rara Avis*

      Not a scar, but I have a droopy eyelid as a result of nerve damage during surgery. Most people either don’t notice or don’t comment (it’s more noticeable in pictures than when my face is in motion, evidently), except that I work with children, some of whom have no filters, so I do get a few, “What’s wrong with your eye?” (I actually tend to go scientific in my reply — “Damage to the sympathetic nerve chain due to removal of a neuroganglioma — my left hand doesn’t sweat either — isn’t that interesting?”)

      1. Oh January*

        I love this approach. I’m fat and walk with a cane, and I’m a teacher. I usually work with older kids, but my primary school days are full of “only grandpas use a stick to walk” “why are you so fat?” and I very much stick to the Isn’t That Interesting tone when asked about it.

        “Different people have all different body types — just like how some people are really tall and some are really short!”

        Usually they’re just like. “Okay. Can you open my juicebox.”

      2. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I used to teach kindergarten and kids definitely have no filter!

    11. Sarah*

      Hi! I have had thyroid cancer for 12 years, and after having my thyroid and more than 50 lymph nodes removed, I got a large scar across my neck that was very noticeable for the first year or so, and I was very self-conscious about it. When I asked my surgeon about scar cream or Vitamin E, he said, do that stuff if you want but wear SPF on your neck every day for the rest of your life. And I have. And it makes an enormous difference.

      Children would just ask straight, and honestly, that was a lot easier and more fun. (What do you think it was? You’re right, I WAS attacked by a dragon!) Adults just talked to my neck. You know, the way men talk to women’s breasts? Same idea, just higher up. And it can get to you. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

      I did try a lot of scarves and cowlnecks, but the surgery gave me some nerve damage, so many fabrics were uncomfortable. In hindsight, I wouldn’t buy anything ahead of time and instead wait until I could test how it felt. Fabric options are nice to have when you have a day where you feel like hiding.

      I would also try to focus on “this, too, shall pass.” The idea that okay, this summer it’s an issue, but next summer it really won’t be – once I started to see that was true, that helped a lot.

      But truly, the biggest thing to help me dealing with it long-term was SPF. What I was told was, once the scar darkens, it becomes more distinct, and it doesn’t fade back. Now, people often don’t notice it at all. Also, the side benefit is that it got me using a lot more SPF on my face.

      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I really appreciate your comment. And great reminder about SPF. I’m terrible about using it consistently so hopefully this will make me better at it.

    12. Festively Dressed Earl*

      I get a lot of really alarming bruises and scars because I’m good at running into things, falling down, the whole klutz spectrum really. Depending on the situation:

      *say “I wish this was a more interesting explanation, but [3 or 4 word explanation]. Anyway, about [whatever we’re supposed to be/were talking about]…”
      *”Fought a dragon pirate. Don’t recommend it.”
      *”You should see the other guy.”
      *”Minor accident (or in your case, surgery that went really well), it looks worse than it is!” Adding something about the surgery being successful or similar heads off both worry and lots of concerned-but-intrusive questions.
      *[For people who won’t leave it alone, when I’m out of effs]: “Oh, that one’s nothing, this one is REALLY gnarly, wanna see?” and start pulling up pictures on my phone, or hiking up my pant leg.

      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        I like the dragon pirate! I used to get bruises all over my lower legs from running into kindergarten tables and chairs at full speed. Some of those bruises got quite bad. Thank you!

    13. Quinalla*

      Sure, I have a scar right now on my forearm from a melanoma that was removed (all good, no spread and they got it all!) It is maybe an inch or two from my watch, so you see if it I wear a short sleeve shirt. No one has asked, but I told some people preemptively that I knew well cause it is obviously a new scar.

    14. AnonForThis*

      I agree with everyone else, if you act normal about it, most people will take their cues from you. I have a couple of experiences of that being true, which I’ll share below. (Caveat: I’m UK based so it might be a culture thing.)

      1 – Many years ago I actually had a benign lump removed from behind my ear, and for reasons I cannot fathom looking back on it, I went back to work for the day after the procedure. (Seriously, what was I thinking? XD) I don’t recall anyone making a big deal of it even still with the bandage (though my hair might’ve covered some of it up). Maybe one or two “are you okay” but no one pushing after I said I was fine and it was just a minor thing.

      2 – A few years back I had a sport incident that gave me a black eye and also those little sticky strips they use to hold cuts shut across part of my eyebrow. The following day when I went to work only two people on site asked me about it, everyone else just acted as if it were a perfectly normal day. This was at a different workplace to the first as well.

    15. An Australian in London*

      I had a triple bypass in 2023. Two of the donor replacement vessels were from the radial arteries down each forearm. The chest scar isn’t visible in any clothes I wear, but the forearm scars are clearly visible if my forearms are bare.

      I have never had anyone at work or even socially ask me about them. I’m not sure I’ve ever noticed anyone noticing. This has been consistently true for people in their early 20s through to 60s.

      Heart surgery has sometimes come up as a topic and I usually say “I’ve got a story there if you’ve got 10 minutes; it can’t really be said any faster than that; the short version is all is fine now”.

  6. LadyMTL*

    I have a low stakes question but I’m curious – is there an expectation to block off time in the Outlook / email calendar for non-work things (e.g. not vacation, or an appointment.) I ask because my mom is presently in the hospital…up until now if I’ve had to hop on to conference calls with her doctors or had to leave work a bit early I’ve just asked for my TL’s okay and that’s it. I don’t block off the time in my Outlook calendar, but I’m wondering if I should? It hasn’t been an issue and I’m not a manager or VP or anyone particularly important, so I think it’s fine if I don’t?

    1. Jen with one n*

      I used to block off the time I would leave to pick up my kid (when I was fully remote), and I absolutely block off my personal appointments (including travel time) in my calendar. Otherwise people will just fill the space because they see it as available.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Exactly. If I don’t block the time, people will fill it. I even have to block buffer time so I can get home from appointments.

        My partner is now back in the office and I have to drive him to the train, so I block the driving time but have a “lmk if urgent” message that’s public (the rest of the calendar is private/just shows “busy”) if anyone needs to call me during that time.

      2. Cinn*

        Exactly this, my partner has to block off time for lunch because people keep trying to fill his calendar with meetings and he had too many instances where people went “ah ha, the only time he’s free today is twelve till half past, that’ll do!”.

        Similarly, I’ll whack all my appointments into my work outlook so that people don’t try and schedule meetings (thankfully I don’t have many) then and also as an extra reminder to myself. Even though my calendar is private I put them in with bland titles such as “drs appointment” or “dentist” or even just “appointment”.

    2. Not A Project Manager*

      I struggle with this too because at one point I liked to “time block” my tasks! My stance is, if I couldn’t reschedule around a meeting request, I will block off the time – but if I am willing to schedule around my time block, I won’t put it on my calendar. I also don’t put my lunch or errands on my calendar for the same reason. I know there’s an “available” setting for events but in past roles people have found that confusing.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’ve worked with people who regularly blocked off large chunks of their calendar every day with an annotation like “busy – Slack me if urgent” and it worked great.

    4. Cj*

      at the CPA firm where I work, you would put this time on your calendar, and just put out of office. it seems to me like the most considerate thing to do for coworkers who might be looking for you, or a response from you.

    5. Laggy Lu*

      If people might be looking for you during those times, and typically you would handle one-offs then or be invited to meetings, it would make sense to add it to your calendar. If your typical day-to-day is just email and phone, or working on your own, it’s prob not necessary. It boils down to will you be inconveniencing someone else in doing their job by not being more transparent (understanding why you might not want to appear “away” so much at one time).

    6. CherryBlossom*

      It depends on the culture of your company and whether anyone aside from your TL needs to quickly see if you’re available or not.

      If it hasn’t caused issues, it shouldn’t be a problem to keep doing what you’re doing. But if it would help your peace of mind, blocking the time off with a “Private” or “Appointment” is enough.

    7. Chidi has a stomachache*

      I think this depends on your company culture. In my org we’re all remote, so people use outlook calendars to find time for meetings and send invites. It’s really important that we keep accurate schedules on there, and if there is a time I don’t want to have meetings (like daycare pickup), I block it off. But it sounds like the things you’re okaying with your TL are sort of last-minute? It may not be as required, then, if you’re unlikely to get last-minute invitations to meetings, etc.

    8. Diogenes*

      In my organisation, we block off personal appointments on the calendar. Even if we don’t reveal exactly what we’re doing, we want our colleagues to know that we’re unavailable.
      Some people book appointments, but don’t put it on the calendar, so anyone who didn’t know in advance would worry about why they weren’t replying to calls for two hours.

      Even if you don’t want to reveal the exact details (understandable in this case), I still recommend putting something on the calendar even if it’s just HOLD PERSONAL BUSINESS.

    9. LadyMTL*

      Thank you everyone for the replies! My company is pretty relaxed as far as having everything noted in the calendar goes, but I think I will start blocking off time if I know about it in advance, or if I’ll be gone for a while. Never hurts to err on the side of caution!

    10. RagingADHD*

      The advantage of blocking time as busy or OOO on Outlook is that if you use Teams, it will automatically turn your availability red or X. That way people who aren’t necessarily trying to schedule a meeting but might ping you know that you might not respond right away.

    11. Calendars*

      I can’t reasonably block off time for some things, especially if blocking it off means your committing to being out – if I have an 11am medical appointment I might get home at 1pm or I might get home at 3 or maybe even 4 every once in a while (thank you public transit). If I’m home at 1pm I want to start working at 1pm so I don’t have to work until 10pm, but I can’t guarantee I’ll be home and working.

      I also have a ton of “if time permits” events on my calendar so some events are blockers and some aren’t. I tell people to ask me for availability.

    12. Alex*

      I think this is highly dependent on how your office, and your role, operates. Would anyone come looking for you or expect you to be available for a meeting, AND expect to look to your calendar to tell them that? Then yeah.

      In many roles, though, impromptu leaving an hour or two early doesn’t warrant it.

    13. Beth*

      I do for practical reasons. I have meetings with other team members pretty frequently and want people to know that I’m not available in that window. So appointments and calls go on there; lunch does if my day is jam-packed and I really need that specific half hour for eating/stretching; errands don’t, because I can just do them after work if someone needs me during the day.

      If this hasn’t been an issue for you, you’re probably right that it’s fine if you don’t.

    14. Je ne sais what*

      It could depend on the sort of thing that usually gets put onto your calendar. As an example, my work is primarily 1:1 meetings with the community that my organization serves; think counseling or tutoring. That community books appointments through a service that is synched with my calendar, similar to calendly, so they just see availability. I’m also responsible for recording notes and organizing programming (events, workshops etc). If I don’t block time out in my calendar to work on those tasks, clients will book every slot the whole day and I won’t get it done! So I’ll often block things with captions like “focus on *project*” or “admin time” etc. I’m also a toddler mom, so non-work things get blocked sometimes too. We do highly collaborative work, so it is generally important that folks know if I’m available or not. We’re almost all FTE, so time reporting is less important, I don’t run it by anyone before blocking it off. I tend to differentiate between “focus time” where I can be pinged or will see the email vs medical appointments etc. I usually mark those as “out of office” or something.

      I guess to your question, I would think about whether there’s a business reason for people to know you’re unavailable. Do you get questions or requests from coworkers regularly that need to be answered right away, or is your work primarily between you and your manager? Lastly, will your manager remember that you’re unavailable if it’s not notated on your calendar?

    15. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My manager requests that we block times that we are unavailable to him during our work hours on our calendar, just so he knows not to book meetings at those times if he can help it. (No details, just “private” or whatever.)

      When I was managing, I encouraged but didn’t require my team members to do that because we were a low-meeting high-flexibility team, but if they were unable to attend a meeting I scheduled because of something they didn’t put on their calendars, they were responsible for following up with me to get the info.

    16. Jaydee*

      For me it depends on how long it will be and if it’s at a set time (virtually join the care conference at 10:00 on Thursday) or if it’s more of a fluid thing (we’ll have the doctor call you this afternoon).

      I’ll put it on my calendar if it’s a fixed time, but I’m not going to block off a 2.5 hour window for a call that will likely take less than 10 minutes. If someone schedules a meeting during that window, I’ll usually just let them know I’m happy to meet but might need to step off/mute suddenly because I’m expecting a call that I’ll need to take.

    17. some dude*

      I block my time for picking up my kid from school and appointments during work hours so people don’t schedule during them. It depends on your work culture and how many meetings you are expected to attend. I spend half my time in meetings, so blocking off non-meeting time is essential. At a prior job I almost never had meetings so wouldn’t block my time off.

    18. SophieChotek*

      Yes at my job I would say the expectation would be to block off the time
      Similarly as others have pointed out, if working on a project / not to be disturbed but could be available, with similar messaging “contact if urgent” (and hope people gauge “urgent” correctly)

    19. thatsjustme*

      It’s gonna depend on the culture at your organization. For me, there’s not much point. I’m supposed to be off work Tuesdays and Wednesdays (because I work Saturdays and Sundays) and have that time blocked off as “out of office” on my calendar, but boss’s boss or HR will still schedule meetings on my days off, my direct reports will still tag me alongside the other managers when submitting assignments, and I just have to decide what to ignore and what’s important enough to make me log on during my day off.

      At other jobs, though, people would block out an hour for lunch, a one-off PTO day, a vactation — basically any time when they’re not available.

    20. librarian*

      Definitely block off the time. I use GCal at work and in many cases people (including me) will just look a person up and it gives you a view of their calendar next to yours and lets you book an appointment when you’re both available. I’m not sure if Outlook has a similar function, but I imagine it does. I’ve gotten into the practice of filling in my calendar for ANY time I don’t want to be in a meeting, including focus time.

    21. Lanam*

      If you’re unavailable during that time, block it to prevent others from scheduling over it or assuming you’re free. Whether it’s personal or work related, same rules apply. This is only if you can foresee far enough – if it’s all last minute, not really.

    22. Tae*

      I was in a minor car accident a few weeks ago and I’ve been blocking times when I thought I would have to deal with insurance. Right now an entire afternoon is blocked off because I’ll have to deal with a tow truck sometime during that period. Mostly so people don’t create meetings with me as looking at other people’s calendars for other reasons isn’t really a thing in my organization. My boss/team knows why I’ve been in and out lately and I go back into our time tracking to put in PTO and such if needed.

    23. A Person*

      Definitely a culture thing, but I absolutely both block time off my calendar and generally expect people to block time off there. We have a lot of meetings and it’s already hard enough to find an open time without it turning out that X has a dental appointment or Y leaves early every day to pick their kid up from daycare.

      If you have fewer meetings maybe not as big of a deal for you to have to tell someone if they schedule a meeting, but I can’t imagine having to remember to turn a meeting down vs just putting blocks on my calendar.

    24. iglwif*

      IME this depends on your office culture but in a lot of places people will just look at your calendar and put things on it, so if there are times when you are not available it’s best to proactively indicate that! You can set the event to private so people can’t see what it is, just that you’re busy or OOO.

      It may not be worth bothering if you aren’t invited to a lot of meetings, or if it’s standard at your workplace to ask people when they’re available rather than skipping that step and relying on their calendars.

    25. Blue Pen*

      I’ve always done it—e.g., “travel time” to get to my doctor’s appointment. I wouldn’t say there’s an expectation or standard here to do that, but I think it saves some confusion for colleagues if they’re looking to schedule me for meetings. So, while yes, my doctor’s appointment is at 1 pm, I’m actually not back at my desk and available until 2:30 pm to account for travel time both ways (and the actual appointment).

  7. hmmm*

    Alright this is definitely a cross between professional and personal. I have a lifelong hobby that I am trying to turn into a business. It is for a handmade item. Before taking the plunge officially I am testing things out in places like Etsy, local craft fairs, etc. So far I have had an extremely positive response! Yeah! If all goes according to plan, in 2-3 years I will be able to do this full time. This business is a goal I have literally been working on for decades and now have the time and money to devote to it.

    The item I am making requires a template, pattern and/ or design (TPD). Creating TPDs is my least favorite thing to do. Creating TPDs is also a very challenging task that some people go to school for years to do. Sadly I do not have the talent to create TPDs. I tend to scour the internet and brick & mortar stores for places to buy unique TPDs. I work with a lot of designers, copyrights, etc. These TPDs cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of budgeting financially to acquire these however if you wait for sales they are quite reasonably priced. I usually stack up when there is a sale. In addition if you look hard enough (even a local library) you can get some of the TPDs for free. That’s how I got started! As I said this is a lifelong hobby. Given that I am in my late 40s you can imagine I have acquired quite a selection of TPDs.

    This is also a hobby that I have not only been able to earn money off of, but also do it for relaxation and mental health chill out time. As a hobby I belong to a lot of related online and in person groups. The thing is in these hobby groups, people are always asking me to share TPDs. Don’t get me wrong if I am allowed to share, I will – within not violating copyrights, trademarks and the designers I work with. I too have even have taken ideas from group shared TPDs. Yes I do share when I can. If I can’t share a TPD I will reference them to somewhere/ someone they can get the TPD. However some of these group members seem annoyed that I won’t share some of my more unique TPDs.

    How do I get across that for me this is almost like sharing a trade secret; I’ve worked hard to financially get these TPDs for potential future work; I also know a lot of the TPD designers are also looking to make a living off these TPDs. I know I am not officially a “professional” but I am trying to start a business the right way. Maybe I need to find some more professional groups but I do enjoy the hobby aspect. How do I navigate this?!

    1. Expert, But Not Your Expert*

      Not exactly the same, but I participate in a lot of industry forums where people love to ask for extremely detailed advice or document templates that are, essentially, free consulting work. A lot of people who are asking these kinds of questions don’t know what they don’t know. They’re asking for something difficult and labor intensive because they are entry level, and they’ve been tasked with something way above their paygrade. They don’t know how to do it themselves, so they don’t know that it takes a lot of time, and they don’t have the $$ or authority to buy what they need or get someone to do it for them.

      You can’t really get through to these kinds of people because they just don’t get it. They are not going to take it personally and hate you forever. Let them live in their own frustration and figure it out. If it’s not a direct request, I scroll past. If it’s a direct question to me, I just say “I don’t have a template that I can share/any more detailed information I can give you, but I recommend XYZ website/ABC book for more detail.” If someone really presses, I’d say “You’re asking me to do free work for you/give you something that I paid money for. I’m not going to do that – in this hobby, you need to either use free resources that are available, make your own, or pay for a paid resource”.

    2. Pomodoro Sauce*

      Could you say, cheerfully, “Oh, I think I got this from Vendor, I can forward you their shop — they do really great work!” and then if they push back say “I wouldn’t feel right undermining their business like that — if they can’t afford to stay in business I’m out of luck!”

      1. Hyaline*

        Exactly my suggestion! And don’t get into the weeds of whether you can or cannot legally share them in your response—just refer them to the original source with a glowing recommendation.

        1. Hyaline*

          Sorry forgot to add–without knowing more about what world o’ craft you’re talking about, I say ” don’t get into the weeds” because I know that in some areas, you actually CAN’T copyright the pattern (though instructions and other materials can be copyrighted) which makes some people feel it’s free game to trade, copy, post, and otherwise filch patterns for free. You don’t have to get into arguments about legality vs ethics vs the finer points of what’s under copyright or what you licensed if that’s the reality of the situation–you can just cheerfully respond “I bought it ages ago from Galactic Goose Patterns Online, thanks for asking!”

    3. Admin of Sys*

      If the TPD’s you have are under someone’s copyright, and you have bought usage rights, just hold fast to the law. “Sorry, can’t pirate those for you. I bought it. They’re intellectual property of (x), here’s a link where you can also buy it.” Sure, some people will complain, but some people have no regards for intellectual property.
      But especially if you are getting into the business, you can use that as part of the pushback. “It wouldn’t be right for me, as a new professional, to violate the law on this” Folks are often a lot more accepting of having to ‘toe the line’ when there’s a business involved, even if it’s a personal business. (note: people shouldn’t be pressuring you regardless, and thank you for not pirating the tpds) And just because you aren’t yet making money on it doesn’t mean you’re not yet a professional. Entrepreneurs often have years where they’re not yet breaking even, that doesn’t mean it’s not a business.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        If they still complain, once the IP aspect is explained to them, they have moved into “Telling you who they are.” Territory. Believe them.

    4. Jinni*

      I work in publishing. When designers create unique work for you (fonts, logos, designs), the contracts specify that it can’t be sold or given away. Can you say that?
      “It’s a custom/contracted design that can’t be sold or given away without violating my agreement with the designer?”
      I don’t know the tone of your community because this is well established in my circles, but just a thought.

      1. UpstateDownstate*

        Oh I like this…’I paid to have it customized but I’m glad you like it. Here is the info for the seller…’

    5. Reba*

      In the days when we mainly listened to music on CDs, but online file sharing was starting up, I had a colleague with an *amazing* collection and great taste in music. He would lend albums or books of CDs to people, but required a firm agreement that you would not rip the albums to MP3s. He was a musician and considered this a way that he defended his peers/industry ability to make a living.

      I think you should just politely say that you don’t give out pattern files. People have a very wild sense of what they ought to be able to get for free! Let them be mad. You don’t need these online posters to be your friends. You need patternmakers to stay in business.

      1. Ama*

        I am a graphic designer in the knit and crochet industry so I know exactly what you mean. I have people in my knit night who share paid patterns among themselves and because I know how much work goes into those patterns (and how pattern designers are often paying people like me to make those patterns look good on top of their own work), I just can’t in good conscience participate unless I know it’s a free pattern or it’s no longer for sale (I do have a collection of vintage out of print patterns I let people make copies of) .

        What I do is if someone asks me to share a pattern that’s still for sale is to very pleasantly say “oh it’s my personal policy to only share free or out of print patterns, but you can check the designer’s website, they may have a discount code” (this is common in knitting patterns).

    6. Indolent Libertine*

      “Sorry, this one was quite expensive and it’s still copyrighted. You can purchase it at (link) if you like.”

    7. tabloidtainted*

      “My usage rights are limited to my business, so I can’t share them with publicly without violating my contract.”

  8. CherryBlossom*

    I was here a few weeks ago with a tricky situation, so I thought I’d give a quick update!

    Context: I was working a temp job where the main project I was brought on for was over. Not only was I not doing anything, I was blocked from taking on more tasks and was forbidden from doing anything to pass the time. It was extreme enough that I was not to write in a notebook, use headphones for music/audiobooks, or browse the web (Currently hiding in a bathroom on my phone). I was also actively checked to make sure I was complying. My manager was sympathetic, but ultimately unable to help, as all these rules were coming from the C-Suite.

    The assignment was almost over, but coming in to do truly nothing was taking a toll on my mental health. I dreaded waking up in the morning, and I’d asked here if I should quit right then, or wait out the last two weeks of my assignment.

    The comments here were split 50/50 on leaving versus staying. I talked it over with some friends, and ultimately landed on staying the last two weeks for the extra security the paychecks would bring. With everything going on right now, I do feel better knowing my safety net is bigger than before.

    I won’t lie, these last two weeks have been brutal. I’ve felt sluggish and numb and all the other words when a depressive episode really hits. But today, my last day, I feel a hint of excitement! It’s almost over, I have plans with friends this weekend to celebrate, and I’ve already got a few job interviews lined up!

    So while I’m not “proud of myself for hanging in there” or anything silly like that, I’m glad I held out for the money, and am taking steps to shake off the awful funk I’ve been in for the past two months. Happy Friday, everyone!

    1. Double A*

      This proves that “getting paid to sit around on your ass” is actually not a great thing! Take that money and run.

    2. crookedglasses*

      I didn’t comment, but I remember seeing that thread. It sounds like it was absolutely brutal.

      Congrats on making it through, and that you’ve reached the light at the end of the tunnel!

    4. RagingADHD*

      I’m glad you got the money and can leave!

      I do hope you warn the temp agency about that place, though. That’s awful and nobody should be treated like that.

    5. Nebula*

      What on Earth was their logic on that one? They wouldn’t let you do any more work for them? They specifically wanted to pay you to sit around and do literally nothing? I cannot wrap my head around this. Think you did the right thing just taking the money but Jesus Christ, what a weird situation.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I missed the previous thread, but I can guess. The Powers That Be are keeping them around because it is in the budget. Use it or lose it. TPTB aren’t giving them any other tasks because there really aren’t any within the scope of the project. Giving them tasks outside that project would screw up the budgeting. TPTB won’t let them do anything else because of appearances, as other employees would notice.

        Were TPTB sensible, they would pay off the contract and tell them to go home. Had I seen the previous thread, I would have recommended they show up in the morning, make sure they are seen, then disappear for a few hours. Repeat until the end of the day. This would run the risk that TPTB would notice and not pay them, but they were already considering just walking. And it is entirely likely that TPTB would be quietly happy with the disappearances, as this would remove the problem of keeping up appearances while keeping the budget intact.

        1. Venus*

          My memory is that it was one awful admin. An admin for TPTB who has more influence than the manager.

        2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          ok but why wouldn’t they allow OP to listen to music or write in a notebook or anything. It sounds like they just had to sit their and do nothing.

          1. WellRed*

            This is someone who thinks temps are the bottom of the food chain and must be kept in their lowly place.

        3. goddessoftransitory*

          I agree–the only thing that made sense at all was budget or grant funds that automatically got yanked if unused, but could only be paid out for X.

          In which case this is a problem for the company to solve through re working of said budget or grant, not on the backs of temps.

      2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I’m wondering if they were doing it on purpose to try and get her to leave. Like maybe they have a contract with the temp agency, but they are hoping that if the person leaves they can show that the temp workers are unreliable and leave before the times up. So maybe they can break the contract or something.

    6. just tired*

      I will never understand not letting people do ANYTHING to pass the time, that’s silly. You’re supposed to just stare at the walls?

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        In the original thread I said it reminded me of the book Farmer Boy, where Alonzo is told by his father about the time he, as a small boy, rebelled against Sunday restrictions by going sledding. Said restrictions were: the family had to put on their best clothes and sit in hard chairs in total silence for the ENTIRE DAY to properly observe the Sabbath. No talking, no fresh food, nothing. They froze in winter because you couldn’t light the fire.

        Even as a kid my thought was “if you want to make a person hate the very thought of your religion this is the way to do it.”

    7. Student*

      I have been following your story with commiseration as I have a job where often don’t have enough to do. I’m glad to hear that assignment is finally over and you can move on to better things!

  9. noncommitally anonymous*

    I’ve been doing my former boss’ job for nearly a year now. Her job just got posted. Yay! I’m planning on applying.
    The issues:
    1. My colleague notified some of his former buddies in industry (we’re in state gov) who sent in their resumes early. I heard that the hiring manager started doing phone screens on them before the job was actually posted, which has annoyed the heck out of me. Isn’t that illegal for a state job? I really, REALLY do not want to work for one of those guys.
    2. The grand boss has apparently expressed doubt that I have the correct qualifications for the position, since I don’t have the job title they’re looking for. Except that job title is NOT listed as a qualification in the job ad. It would be impossible for me to have that job title, as no one at my location has it. Plus, I’ve been doing the job for nearly a year.
    3. I am completely stuck on the cover letter. How do you write a cover letter to a group of people who already know you?

    1. GigglyPuff*

      1. yeah that is really bypassing all hiring rules, least it was with my state HR. I couldn’t even get a former intern’s resume thru because they answered one of the questions in a way that disqualified them.
      3. As someone who has gone thru internal hiring, absolutely treat it like it’s not. On the resume, the cover letter, and in an interview. Assume they know nothing about you or what you’ve worked on.

    2. Sangamo Girl*

      1. Only if it is forbidden by statute or policy in your state. It is in mine, but every state is different.
      2. Are they truly just looking at job titles or rather duties? While job duties, state hiring can be a mind-numbing experience that drives logic right out the window.
      3. The same way you would write a cover letter for any other job. Don’t reiterate what is in your resume. Amplify soft skills, other experiences, information that adds to the entire package.
      4. Good luck!

    3. Pomodoro Sauce*

      The state work cover letter for an in-department promotion can be a hard line to walk! You need to hit all the talking points for screening (and it can be helpful to know if screening is done by HR or similar) but you also have to share a version of your work accomplishments that doesn’t ruffle the feathers of your current management. It feels hard because it’s a hard line to walk.

      If your state’s application process is a bit onerous, some hiring managers will walk good outside candidates through the application process and what to expect where. It’s a little sketchy but I wouldn’t say it’s definitive.

      I am in a situation where I work for a state government and did my boss’s job for over a year, did good work, and then got passed over due to job title reasons. The person they hired instead of me is not a great fit and is advocating for the position to be changed to my job title after he leaves — if the same happens to you I’d advocate a very professional “I’m glad to step back and do only my position now! It’s been a stressful year covering both positions!” and then give 70% at work and let the chips fall where they may.

    4. Annika Hansen*

      In my state, you must meet each listed requirement to be considered. I know many other government position are similar. Make it easy for the resume reviewers. So for my cover letter, I do something like:

      Salutation

      Niceties – like I am excited to apply blah blah. Here is how my experiences aligns with this position:

      Requirement 1: How I meet it
      Requirement 2: How I meet it
      And so on also including any desired but not required qualification.

      Closing Niceties

      1. MsSolo (UK)*

        And STAR format it! Even in a cover letter, a specific example of how you’ve met it and the positive results that followed impress much more.

    5. DefinitiveAnn*

      Cover letter: “I am excited to apply for and get the pay and title for a job I have been doing successfully without compensation for a whole year!”

      Well, maybe not…

    6. Gone fishing*

      When people say “I’ve been doing my boss’s job” sometimes it’s only a small fraction of the admin work that person used to handle. Often, a manager is meant to bring leadership, direction, experience, and a different work perspective to jr staff, and the admin tasks people “think” was their job could have probably been delegated all along. I’d focus on how you’d provide the leadership and team direction and what you’d do differently with 100% of your time focused on that area instead of how you’ve been doing their day to day grind on their behalf.

  10. Laggy Lu*

    This might be too niche a question, but here goes:
    Does anyone have a template for mapping across different groups/agencies that operate in the same space, whether competitively or complementary?
    I’m just going to illustrate what I am trying to do, rather than covering with teapots or llamas, because it’s too hard otherwise.
    I am currently looking at the organizations, globally that are operating in Net Zero targets/CO2 offsets/calculations and implementation for corporations space. There are various attributes of orgs, such as those that set standards, those that act as oversight bodies, those that support collaborations on implementation, etc. It’s a small world right now, but there are still a ton of actors. I am trying to make a sort of reference guide, both for me and my coworkers.
    I’d love to make something visual that shows where each one overlaps and/or stands out among the others. Before I go it alone (I don’t have any software other than Office), I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of templates I could use that might save me some time.
    Thanks!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Somebody may have already done this for you. Use search terms like “compare XYZ Corp and ABC corp” or “rank CO2 offset consultants” etc. I would not be surprised if somebody like Gartner has a publication on this.

    2. HappyMarketer*

      Maybe have a look at the LUMAscape from Luma partners – they do this for the marketing/advertising space. They are a bit mind boggling but that’s often quite a nice thing to illustrate. The overlap bit is a challenge but you might be able to blur line / put things in multiple boxes.

    3. Strive to Excel*

      If you try to convey everything on one template, it’s going to be a really busy space. I’d personally recommend breaking it down into three separate templates.

      1. Geographic space. Color or pattern codes by industry. This lets you show which regulatory codes are in force in which location.

      2. Template by code. For each set of regulations, who is in charge of setting it, who regulates it, and how do you give feedback (if applicable)? Classic table chart is a bonus here. Add whichever other columns you feel are helpful.

      3. Table chart again; organizations in the rows, attributes in the columns. Attributes might be: “has enforcement regulations” “develops standards” “oversight body”. Checkmarks for each organization in its relevant attribute.

      2 & 3 can be done very easily in Excel and can be kept up-to-date reasonably easily if manually; if you want to get a little fancier, there’s ways in both Excel and PDFs to link bits of tables together so that you can click on the checkmark in organization A’s “develops standards” column and be taken directly to the standard in Table 2 that A is responsible for developing.

      #1 can also be done in Excel if you don’t mind limiting it to state/country borders. There’s a bunch of excellent tutorials out there on how to do it.

      I’ll note that I don’t think running this through Excel would be the best *long-term* solution. There are significantly more polished data vis programs out there that are less prone to error. But! It gives you the chance to workshop what you find useful and what you don’t find useful in a format that you can easily tweak and change, which you can then take to a data vis specialist or even online for “I’d like software that can make me a map like this with a lot less fiddling, who can do it?” Also, you currently have it. Which lets you start immediately.

  11. Punching Bag*

    I was out sick on Monday. I texted big boss and my manager “John”. A few hours later John texted me saying that I needed to include another manager “Maria” on the text next time to let her know that I’d be absent. (Maria isn’t my manager and I’ve never included her before and no one has ever said anything.) Then in the evening John sent a message saying that I had “too much overtime” and said that I needed to instead just work my “established work hours.”

    I spoke with big boss and she said that she would talk to John and Maria. Well when I came back to the office on Tuesday, John and Maria went to talk to Big Boss about how I have been “taking too much time off.” Big Boss talked with them and just told me that there’s a lot going on in the office project wise. (I have about 5 weeks of PTO. Everyone else takes time off- not sure why I’m the only one getting push back about it.)

    John and Maria will talk about me loudly so I can hear it. (I sit next to Maria’s office.) Maria was swearing about something and John was laughing. They’re obnoxious.

    My workplace is toxic, but why are they starting stuff like this? I don’t know what I did to tick them off, but they clearly have it out for me. I’m worried that they’re either trying to bully me out of a job or get me fired.

    I’m applying to places, but haven’t found anything yet. Until I can leave, what do I do?

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Uh oh, this is annoying. But it’s good that the Big Boss seemingly has your back. Do you have any sense of if your PTO use is standard? Are you new? I would carefully document all the leave you’ve taken and if you have any way to prove it’s typical and normal (can you ask HR/the big boss/anyone else what is the normal amount of leave for a staff member in your position to be using?).

      1. Punching Bag*

        I’ve always been told that as long as we have time available, we can use it. I’ve checked the employee handbook and there are no restrictions. I’ve provided big boss copies of Dr’s notes for appointments.

        1. Not A Project Manager*

          Well, but are you new? are you actually taking a lot of time off? There’s generally an “unspoken expectation” about such things from the manager.

            1. goddessoftransitory*

              I’m guessing that’s why they think they can get away with bullying you about this.

    2. Aggretsuko*

      Sometimes people decide they don’t like you and will do everything they can to take you out. It doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do, you were just who they wanted to target. :(

      Been there, done this, all you can do is endure the pain until they win or you find another job.

    3. Cookie Monster*

      I would ask to have a conversation with John and ask him in a genuinely confused/curious tone, “I’m aware you’re concerned I’m taking too much time off. So far this year, I’ve taken X days out of my available 5 weeks. I try to be conscientious about not taking time off during busy times or when others are also out [or whatever makes sense here]. Is there a reason you think I’m taking off too much time? Is there a way you’d like me to handle it differently?”

      But really try to ask as if you’re genuinely curious. Of course, the point is to force John to think of explicit reasons why it’s a problem, not just make broad complaints about you. But if he can’t think of any or comes up with something vague, you can say something like “Going forward, I’ll try to make sure my time off isn’t too convenient for anyone. But I do want to use this part of my benefits package, just like everyone else does.”

    4. fhqwhgads*

      They’re telling you that you both work too much and aren’t in enough? They effin’ suck. They’re illogical asshats who should be ignored to the extent is possible. Perfectly polite to them. Work with Big Boss as much as is practical in the meantime.

      1. Malarkey01*

        I don’t know. I once had someone that would use a lot of leave one week and then make up the work using excessive OT the next week, getting to take advantage of the extra time and a half.

        A lot of places watch OT very carefully and if the reason someone is using a lot is due to them using leave elsewhere there would be a discussion about how workload was being managed.

      2. PotatoRock*

        Yeah, this is odd but you need to go back to your big boss and get clarification. Then send a follow up email for a little documentation. Frame it, like all work problems, like a collaborative problem solving exercise – you’ve been concerned to hear you’re both taking too much time off and working too much overtime, and you want to figure out how to fix that, if there’s anything you should be handling differently.

        Some examples — leaving better documentation about projects so others can work them when you’re out; better “coverage” planning when you’re out; intermittent FMLA; schedule sick leave when possible (like if it’s an appointment, not an illness); change deadlines and priorities rather than working more overtime, etc

    5. Zephy*

      I hope you saved the text from John saying you were working too much OT. How is this man going to say you’re working too much but also taking too much time off in practically the same breath?

  12. Amber Rose*

    Excel experts, I’m confused.

    Having passed a pre-screen for a job, I was asked to complete a small Excel skills test prior to the interview with the manager. It was just like, clean this data, make a chart, do some conditional formatting, etc. In hindsight I think I did poorly overall anyway because it was weirdly set up, but there’s one part I’m still baffled by.

    I was given two columns with 12 different rows that seemed to be counting numbers of records. Like, TPS Reports -> 25. Time Sheets -> 88. That kind of thing. And then I was asked to turn it into a pivot table. Now, I’m used to making pivot tables for data entries ranging from the hundreds to the thousands. I got pretty good at it. I even got pretty good at defining relations so I could make pivot tables from disconnected tables (admittedly not in Excel but still).

    I do not understand how to make a pivot table for 12 things that are all completely different. I mean, I know HOW, I just have no idea why you would do such a thing, what it would tell you, or what it should look like. And the next question was what conclusions I pulled from it? The only conclusion I came to was that someone in this situation does not understand pivot tables.

    Is it me? Do I not get what pivot tables are good for or what the heck?

      1. Amber Rose*

        I don’t think so, since they were asking what business decisions I’d make based off the results. Its just that the results were the exact same data represented in the same way, but now in a pivot table.

        I’m also a little worried that this is indicating that the hiring manager is unreasonable in their expectations.

    2. SoloKid*

      Pivoting a 2×12 flat data table is just transposing it lol. I would have literally answered “There are no discrete categories here to aggregate.”

      Did they want you do to some detective work like finding any hidden columns or something?

      1. Amber Rose*

        The finding of hidden things was part of the data cleaning process, but there was no additional data there, just empty columns and some weird merged cells and formatting errors.

        I guess if I am asked about it during the interview I’ll use your wording. Or maybe I’ll bring it up proactively. I’m so confused about what they wanted to see.

    3. former recruiter*

      Maybe they realized it was non-sensical but wanted to see if you could just *do* a pivot table. Then your answer could have been – it doesn’t make sense and I wouldn’t recommend using a pivot table for this because none of the data seemed to correlate!

    4. Cabbagepants*

      You could do a Pivot table that disregards the category and just gives summary statistics of the numeric data.

    5. Always Tired*

      Every time I have done one of those it has been utter nonsense. I think they are set up by people with no excel skills who don’t know what they are asking.

  13. Not a Hatchet*

    Has anyone been in a position where part of their job involved coming into a business as third-party and determining which executives need to go?

    Context, I’m starting a job where I’m sort of a “fixer” for small companies and startups that want to grow into “real companies”. Ideally this would mostly revolve around helping them with business norms, pivoting their product strategy, helping with hiring good engineers, etc – but occasionally needing to say “this department head isn’t working out”. But it is looking like the first few projects in my pipeline are going to require replacing some executives / department heads and that it’ll be a much bigger part of my job than what I thought I had signed up for. Small places apparently tend to hire people who are very unqualified for their executive positions. Some examples of department heads: no people managing experience, HR head with no prior HR experience or knowledge of employment law, a “how hard can product be?” person who talks a good game. (It is spawning a program to help small places with hiring such roles to avoid getting to this point)

    There will be no PIPs, no options for demotions – looking to hear from others who have been in this position. This is purely executives though they might not have many reports (if any) – individual contributors are safe. Maybe I’m just nervous now that I’ve given notice at my last job and about to start a new one.

    1. Mouse*

      First of all, this is my dream job! Not necessarily firing, nobody loves that, but organizational change/operational improvement in general. I’d love to hear more details about the role and how you got it!

      I’m in operational improvement consulting now, and some of the things I’d recommend include:
      -Spans & layers analysis: this can shed a lot of light on the “missing stairs” in an organization
      -Lots and lots of interviews: just talking to people can often give a lot of insights if you can read between the lines
      -Talk to each exec about their KPIs. If they don’t have any, what would they recommend? You can learn a lot from what people tell you about how they want to be measured.

      1. PX*

        Like you, I’d love to hear about how Not a Hatchet got their job, but I’d also love to know how you got yours in operational improvement consulting! Definitely an area I’d love to get into someday.

        1. Mouse*

          Mine was a typical post-MBA consulting path. I was always more interested in fixing existing structures within a company than growth strategy/building out new things, so I focused on companies and practices that aligned with that when I was recruiting.

      2. Not a Hatchet*

        How did I get it? Accidentally ;)

        Basically my job is protect the company’s investments and make them more likely to succeed. Some corporations have an innovation center that does a mix of spinning up new companies and investing in small companies and startups that align with their sector. So instead of LlamaCorp spending a few million dollars developing a new grooming tool, they’ll provide seed money of say 500k to a couple employees to quit and start CoolLlamaz, and help connect them to VCs for future fundraising rounds.

        1. Provide a couple employees seed money to create a startup CoolLlamaToolz
        2. Connect founders to VCs for future fundraising rounds. LlamaCorp may also join in later rounds or sell their stake
        3. LlamaCorp reps sit on the board of CoolLlamaToolz

        Exit options
        A) IPO – Llama Corp makes lots of money
        B) Growth Stage Startup – Llama may sell some or all of their shares in later fundraising rounds to VCs to make medium amount of money or at least get back their initial investment
        C) Failure – Founders eligible for re-hire at Llama Corp, along with any employees who they recommend. LlamaCorp may own the IP developed depending on how much of CoolLlamaToolz they owned.

        Back to how I got this – been describing my dream job to a few people and have a history of trying to make structural change from within. Been at a few startups that struggled or failed despite having amazing individual contributors because the founder didn’t know how to run a company and I was trying to find a way to shift the industry. Typically these types of investors are rather hands off outside of board meetings, so we’re testing out a more hands on approach so that good innovations have a better shot of succeeding, especially for products in the good-for-humanity bucket.

        1. PX*

          this is amazing not only for what you do but that your company was smart enough to set it up like this. initially I thought you were just going to say you are in a VC and doing portco operations but this is even better. I can also see some of the sensitivity around how to manage letting people go when in a roundabout way you are actually invested in the success of their company.

          to go back to your original question, I’d just try to go in with good communication skills, a bit of empathy and a lot of backbone. assuming the CEOs of the individual companies know you’re coming in and why, then all you can do is try and be kind but direct ala Alison’s standard advice I would say. assess the situation, communicate clearly what needs to happen (and why ideally), then go about doing what needs to be done while being as sensitive as possible to anyone being let go (and anyone coming in).

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      No direct experience, but keep in mind you are only making recommendations – you do not own the decisions. The client does. You are reporting on observations and assessments and sharing recommendations. So who does and does not lose their job is not your actual decision nor is it your fault. They own their performance, skills and contributions. Management owns the decision. Additionally, for what it is worth, as an exec you generally understand that your job is at the companies discretion. You generally don’t get put on PIPs.

    3. Great Frogs of Literature*

      I don’t have experience doing this, but I DO have experience working for a department head who’d been promoted when the company was a small start-up and did not (IMO) have the people skills necessary for managing ANYONE, much less an entire department.

      I’m sure it feels terrible to come in and say, “This person should be fired,” but trust me, you are doing a huge favor to those people’s reports (and if they don’t currently have reports, you’re doing a huge favor to the future people who will not report to them because they won’t be there anymore). Assuming the companies actually take your recommendations, as someone else pointed out.

  14. anon today*

    I’m curious to hear from folks who have worked in both Canada and the US what the differences are in workplace norms and culture.

    As context – I currently work in HR in the US and most of my experience has been with small to medium non-profits and startups. My partner is a Canadian citizen and we’re seriously considering making a move. My initial thought had been “Oh no all of my professional expertise is grounded in US employment law and norms, this skillset is useless abroad” but I am finding more and more that makes it seem like it might not be as hopeless as I’d initially thought.

    Thank you!

    1. also anon for this*

      Oh, great question! I’m afraid I don’t have any answers but will be eagerly lurking as I am in a similar situation.

    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Granted, I’ve not worked in Canada nor do I have HR experience…but I have to imagine it’s a similar learning curve as if you were to move from your current state to a different state. There would likely be some different laws to learn and adjust to, right? So you’d be moving from a state to a province, and then learning the difference at the federal level as well?

      This may be a naive take, but I don’t think its unmanageable!

    3. basil and thyme*

      I’ve worked both in the US and in Canada; I’m now in Canada. I’ve worked in academia, start-ups and established large companies. I cannot speak about HR specifically. What I will say is that the office is a reflection of the overall culture.
      Warning: gross generalizations to follow. All is my own experience, not speaking to all of either country.
      I don’t expect anyone in Canada to talk about religion in the workplace. Cdns are much more reserved. When my small Cdn company got a US CEO and he gave zoom speeches in front of a very stylized cross, or talked about his wife, it was very much out of Cdn culture. In Canada, when my colleagues talk about working extra hours, it’s very much in an this-is-unfortunate way, and not in a braggy way; this was not true for my US colleagues.
      To get an idea of Cdn culture, try taking the citizenship test. There used to be trial tests to take online. See where your answers differ from the correct ones. My american spouse did this, and it was illuminating. And he still can’t get over “keeping your yard tidy” is not the correct answer.

      1. anon today*

        Thank you! That’s interesting about the work culture tending to be a bit more reserved. I’d seen elsewhere that Canadians don’t see it as a flex to work extra hours. Both of those differences feel pretty welcome to me, to be honest!

        I also really appreciate the tip on taking sample citizenship tests. Definitely something I wouldn’t have thought of.

    4. Generic Name*

      I work for a US-based company that has offices in Canada. I’ve worked on several projects in Canada with largely Canadian staff. Laws between the two countries are very similar (I’m most familiar with environmental law, but our corporate anti-bribery/anti collusion training notes the similarities between the 2 countries’ laws). Granted this is my experience sitting in the US and collaborating via video meetings, but the biggest difference I’ve noticed is some words are pronounced in ways you wouldn’t expect, and they say “zed” instead of “zee” for the letter z. I emigrating and being successful at a job would be very doable in your case.

      1. anon today*

        Thank you! I saw an article advising that job seekers should make sure their resume was updated to use Canadian English spellings rather than American English and that feels very in line with what you observed. That’s also reassuring that the legal frameworks, at least in other areas, aren’t wildly different from one another.

    5. Miss Direction*

      US citizen living in Canada for over a decade. Depending on where you live, you may have to be bilingual (French and English. ) Not so much in western Canada where I live but definitely in Eastern Canada. It is a pretty standard requirement for most government jobs.

      1. Oh January*

        If you are moving to Quebec, anon today, there are some programs through the provincial government to help immigrants learn French. (Quebecois French, I have to note, is different than “International” French, which is what the federal government is usually looking for) The provincial govt in QC is very concerned with the preservation of the French language and to a certain extent you can use that to your advantage.

        Miss Direction is totally totally right about it being more negotiable in western Canada (and the territories, in my experience, if that’s your cup of tea). My French is like a DELF B2 level. I am qualified to teach Core French (essentially “language elective” level) to high schoolers in Western Canada, but the govt would laugh me out of a job interview in Quebec. I wouldn’t sound enough like a native speaker even over email.

        1. anon today*

          Thank you both! Yes, we’d briefly looked into Montreal/Quebec but realized that not being bilingual was going to be a real barrier. Even looking at job postings in Ontario (mostly Toronto and Ottawa) I’ve noticed that being bilingual is not an uncommon preferred qualification.

          That’s also really helpful to hear a bit more about relative language levels, and regional differences. How different is Quebecois French from “International” French? Is it nuances in pronunciation and some vocabulary, or are there more fundamental differences (conjugations, etc)?

          I speak some Spanish, and if you drop me in a Spanish speaking country for a week or so I get back up to a conversational level. But I think it would be a real challenge for me to achieve fluency even in a language that I’ve had extended exposure to. Realistically, I think it could be realistic for me to achieve basic French professional language abilities but I’m not banking on anything beyond that.

          1. Oh January*

            A bit of both! International French is closer to Parisian, and some combination of those is often what you’ll learn in an Anglophone school outside QC. Quebecois and Acadien (further east) French arose from the French colonists were speaking in the area in the 17th and 18th century — kind of like how modern US-southerners likely speak in an accent closer to Shakespeare’s than modern brits because of the different chains of linguistic evolution.

            The main bits that trip me up are pronunciation — the vowels are different, there’s more combined vowels (diphthongs) and there’s a tendency to meld words together that I have trouble parsing — and vocabulary. It’s basic stuff, like in Parisian french you’d say le week-end but in Quebecois you’d say le fin de semaine, or the verb for “to gossip” is jaser in QC but bavarder in France. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head lol. It’s a mix of linguistic and cultural differences I’d say that make it difficult to learn to code switch but not impossible.

            I learned French in Anglophone schools, so I’m more likely to construct my sentences and use words in ways that scream France.

          2. FrenchOrFrench*

            My mother was fluent in Parisian French and had trouble communicating in Quebec – your mileage may vary, of course.

            I took French for years in school and struggled because my instructor was each year was from a different French speaking country and I had trouble adjusting each year, so it definitely can be rough.

    6. Moose Javian*

      I’m a Canadian who has lived and worked in both US and Canada. For HR-specific things, I would say one of the biggest differences I noticed is that Canada has more employment regulations than the US, and generally, Canada just has more regulations overall. I was a supervisor in Ontario and then moved to the US South and I was regularly shocked at how few employment regulations there were in this particular part of the South surrounding benefits, breaks, overtime, protected leave, holidays, etc. Your level of adaptation may be dependent on which part of America you are coming from.

      1. anon today*

        Thank you! And yes, that is very much my sense. Honestly, something that I’m looking forward to is practicing HR in a place with greater employee protections! I’m very fortunate now to be working with an organization that truly wants to be a good employer and doesn’t get itself anchored to the minimum legal expectations. But that hasn’t always been the case for me.

        One follow-up question for you – have you found employment laws to be embraced or are they seen as a burden? Something that comes up in some letters here, and that I’ve certainly found, is that many folks – even those receiving protections! – bristle about things like legal requirements about overtime, breaks, etc. Even now, working at an organization where people are pretty savvy to this stuff (sometimes we even do support work to pass new employment laws!), I find myself repeatedly having to say, “Employment laws are good, actually! People worked very hard to secure these protections and they are important if sometimes inconvenient in some ways.”

        1. Notmorningpers*

          I feel they are generally accepted, more so in government. I wonder if you could look up the association for HR professionals in whatever province you are thinking about. You might also search employment standards acts and workplace health and safety acts for whatever province, so you get a sense of the rules. Interestingly, it sounds like the US rules around non-exempt staff being paid for every minute are actually clearer and stricter than here, even though I think employment laws are generally more pro-worker here. Long hours are a thing is some professions but in government 35 or 37.5 hours a week is common; 35, 37.5 or 40 in private sector. Minimum vacations or 4% pay in lieu exist where I am.

    7. HannahS*

      I’m a Canadian reader here and while the legal employment landscape is different, I rarely read things here about culture/communication that make me go “Oh that would NEVER work here.” It’s true that Canadians are generally more reserved, but Toronto and Ottawa are cosmopolitan, diverse places and I don’t imagine that you’d struggle much to fit in.

      One thing that does stand out every year to me in Alison’s salary survey is that American salaries are often higher than Canadian, and that’s amplified with the exchange rate. Taxation is also usually higher here. But because there are more socialized services (famously healthcare, but others too,) the average standard of living is generally better than in the US.

      This may have changed since your partner left Canada, but housing in and around Toronto has become absurdly expensive, and many Millenials are priced out. If you wish to buy a house, think seriously about Ottawa!

      1. HannahS*

        Aha I was ROUNDLY corrected by my spouse who told me that salaries here are generally lower, but after arguing (pleasantly) about it for a bit, we agreed that it’s field-dependent. In some high-earning fields (tech, banking, medicine, sales) you’d probably earn more in the US. In others (teaching, government jobs, low wage work like retail) you’d make more here.

        1. anon today*

          Can I just say how much this seeing follow up entertained me! I hadn’t clocked that specific trend, since I’ve really just been focused on cruising postings for HR jobs. But I’m not shocked to hear that there is a wider income discrepancy in the US.

  15. Alice*

    When I’m working on site, sometimes my manager (who has an office on a different floor) drops by to say hello. Intellectually I get that she is just being friendly, but it’s hard enough to focus in a cubicle already. Social interruptions with no immediate purpose (unless the purpose is to check that I’m actually on site when I said I would be?) make it harder.
    How can I persuade myself to like this better, or at least, stop disliking it?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Re-frame the interruptions in your own mind. It’s not checking if your at your desk like a school child, it’s more on the boss’s end to strengthen their connection with you. Unscheduled drop by’s are to build relationship; provide more casual interaction (many people won’t schedule a 1:1 to air a minor grievance or ask a basic question but will do so if boss is more casually available); and appear approachable as a boss. This benefits you too, having a personal connection and a solid relationship means your boss is more likely to stand up for you, want you to reach your work goals, develop growth in your role (promotions, raises).

    2. JuliePaislie*

      Does she tend to drop by at around the same time each day? Can you plan for work that’s less focus-heavy at those times?

      Would it make sense to have these scheduled? Even for 5 minutes. Or check out her calendar to see when she’s free and might come by. Or even go see her?

    3. RagingADHD*

      How long is she spending talking to you, and how frequently is she doing it?

      “Dropping by to say hello” doesn’t seem like it would be a major disruption to one’s workday, especially if it only happens occasionally. If it’s feeling like the last straw to your concentration, maybe that shows that you may need to take other steps to mitigate the baseline level of noise and distraction you’re dealing with – can you use headphones, adjust your screen setup, ask about getting pink noise piped in, etc?

    4. Kay*

      I think it would be weird if your manager didn’t stop by sometimes to be honest. Like Disney said, it is about relationship building, being accessible, and maintaining an open positive relationship. Think of it like passing someone you know in the hall – if you ignore them it is weird right? Obviously with your boss being on a different floor it is a little different, but that same idea applies.

      2. Anonymous Cat*

        I agree! I don’t expect long conversations but I’d feel it was ignoring people if they Never stopped by.

    5. JR17*

      Can you plan your work week so you do your tasks requiring deep focus at home and other more interruptible tasks in the office? I think part of the great value of working on-site (some days) is that it allows for unplanned interactions, which do indeed strengthen relationships, but also allows for work discussions that just might never happen if they have to be scheduled (or that might take 15 emails instead of a 30 second conversation). Your boss isn’t just saying hi, she’s getting a sense of how your work is going for you, if you’re happy with it or super stressed, what your workload is like, if you’re running into any little issues she can address for you, etc. And hopefully you feel free to swing by her office with the backlog of little questions and updates that tend to come up. I always find in-office days to be tremendously productive, because we blast through so many issues that would have been hard to manage in a scheduled or structured way, even though I have a harder time getting through project work. When I can design my week with that in mind, that maximizes my productivity.

      All that said, I think you can totally suggest a scheduled one-on-one on your in-office days so you know when to expect her and can plan around it.

  16. Eliza*

    I was laid off last month and have been job searching like crazy since then. This Tuesday I had a conversation with a hiring manager who said she wanted to present me an offer and was aiming to get it in my inbox by end of day Thursday. It is now Friday, but I haven’t yet received it.

    I’m not actually super surprised she didn’t get it to me by yesterday — the job is at a startup where there’s a lot going on. But I’m on tenterhooks and want to get everything squared away ASAP. If I don’t get anything today, would it be too much to nudge her late this afternoon?

    1. Amber Rose*

      Personally I’d wait until Monday morning. I dislike nudging people on Friday afternoons, and one whole business day is a pretty reasonable time to wait.

    3. Hiring Mgr*

      I would send a note today if it were me. It’s an offer so it’s kind of a big deal – nothing wrong with a little nudge a day or two post her date for the offer.

      1. Eliza*

        I think that’s what I’ll do, especially because she’s been very open to chatting with me. Even just to get an update on a new ETA — I really don’t want to sit in this uncertainty all weekend.

      1. Zephy*

        Trash, too! I don’t know what setting I have enabled, or disabled, or whatever, but Gmail will send messages with attachments straight to the trash, even if they’re sent as replies to established conversational threads. When I started working for my current employer, I spent all day refreshing my inbox looking for the offer letter/HR packet, and finally saw it in the trash, already marked as read, at 6 PM. It totally bypassed my inbox.

    5. STEM Admin*

      My son applied for an internal-only position that appears to have been written for him (literally – not just saying it’s a perfect fit, but it requested specific skills that he’s been making waves at work over). It took them 3 weeks to schedule interviews and no movement past that for 6 weeks now. Still waiting to hear. No idea what’s going on and it feels like torture. Sometimes there’s just a lot of mess in the background that even the hiring manager can’t avoid.

  17. CubeFarmer*

    I’m changing some micromanaging habits!

    For years, my manager was a brilliant thinker, but a micromanager. The micromanaging was frustrating and demeaning to me. Because of it there were situations where I never knew if I would have reached the same conclusions on my own because I never had a chance to think. But at the same time, she would focus on these little things sometimes to the exclusion of programmatic decisions that she needed to make, which she would always deal with at the last minute. I recently assumed her role, and promised myself that I wouldn’t be the same.

    We recently had to change the date of a meeting. I was juuuuuuust about to remind my deputy that she needed to let our board members know and then I thought, “No. She’s competent. Notifying our board members is the obvious thing to do. This is reasonably low-stakes, so let me see if she does this without me telling her. If she doesn’t send something by tomorrow morning, I’ll ask her. If the new details go out today, or tomorrow it’s not a big deal. I’m going to wait.”

    Guess what? Within an hour, she had a notification sent out!

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Now remember to tell her you noticed — Positive feedback being something else that micro managers often forget.

  18. hmmm*

    I have a lifelong hobby that I am trying to turn into a business. It is for a handmade item. Before taking the plunge officially I am testing things out in places like Etsy, local craft fairs, etc. So far I have had an extremely positive response! Yeah! If all goes according to plan, in 2-3 years I will be able to do this full time. This business is a goal I have literally been working on for decades and now have the time and money to devote to it.

    The item I am making requires a template, pattern and/ or design (TPD). Creating TPDs is my least favorite thing to do. Creating TPDs is also a very challenging task that some people go to school for years to do. Sadly I do not have the talent to create TPDs. I tend to scour the internet and brick & mortar stores for places to buy unique TPDs. I work with a lot of designers, copyrights, etc. These TPDs cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of budgeting financially to acquire these however if you wait for sales they are quite reasonably priced. I usually stack up when there is a sale. In addition if you look hard enough (even a local library) you can get some of the TPDs for free. That’s how I got started! As I said this is a lifelong hobby. Given that I am in my late 40s you can imagine I have acquired quite a selection of TPDs.

    This is also a hobby that I have not only been able to earn money off of, but also do it for relaxation and mental health chill out time. As a hobby I belong to a lot of related online and in person groups. The thing is in these hobby groups, people are always asking me to share TPDs. Don’t get me wrong if I am allowed to share, I will – within not violating copyrights, trademarks and the designers I work with. I too have even have taken ideas from group shared TPDs. Yes I do share when I can. If I can’t share a TPD I will reference them to somewhere/ someone they can get the TPD. However some of these group members seem annoyed that I won’t share some of my more unique TPDs.

    How do I get across that for me this is almost like sharing a trade secret; I’ve worked hard to financially get these TPDs for potential future work; I also know a lot of the TPD designers are also looking to make a living off these TPDs. I know I am not officially a “professional” but I am trying to start a business the right way. Maybe I need to find some more professional groups but I do enjoy the hobby aspect. How do I navigate this?!

    1. RagingADHD*

      You tell them “This isn’t open-source, so I can’t share it,” and let them be annoyed.

      Some people are always going to be mad that you told them no, even if it’s for excellent reasons. I’ve had people – usually mere acquaintances because I don’t stay in touch after such behavior – get mad at me for declining to share my controlled prescriptions, declining to write them full novels or screenplays for free, and declining to let my toddler ride in their car without a carseat (among other things).

      Their entitlement is not a reflection on your character. It’s on their own.

    2. JuliePaislie*

      You could try explaining that whoever made the TPD is a creator like the people who do your hobby. If you share something that they don’t want shared, or that they are asking payment for, you are disrespecting them and possibly taking money out of their pocket.

      Maybe if you can get them to relate to fellow creators, it would help. The people in your hobby groups might give what they make away, but it’s their choice to do so. The creators of some of the TPDs made a different choice.

      If it’s open source and you put a lot of time into finding it, it’s up to you whether you “gift” someone that time by sharing the TPD.

  19. Maple Cheesecake*

    I have a fairly low stakes question. I’m new to an office with cubicles—we have 9 cubes, in 3 rows. My team of 4 takes up one row, plus one cube on the other side of the cubicle wall, making us an L shape. I’m the one on the other side.

    My team and I are fumbling to cue me when to join on team conversations that happen on their side of the row. I’m too polite and a bit of a wallflower, so I never want to interrupt a conversation I’m not a part of—but I also need to be part of my team.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to bridge this 4′ cubicle wall gap? Thankya!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you flat-out told them that you’re new to cubes and tend to be overly polite, and that therefore you’d really appreciate it if they called your name when you should be in conversation with them?

      If you want to take it on yourself, then one way to do this is just to say “Hey, should I be in on this?” as soon as you get the slightest inkling that it’s important.

      1. Maple Cheesecake*

        I haven’t in so many plain words, but the sentiment is understood—my lead is very aware of the situation, and we’re all trying to brainstorm. It’s a super chill team, so this is definitely an effort that will go both ways! I’ll try popping my head up and asking if I need to be in on the convo though, Thank you!

    2. cathy*

      Just know that you’re not intruding if you chime in to a work conversation- that this is expected? When I worked in a cube farm none of us had any boundaries when it came to that.
      (There was no such thing as a private conversation there unless you took it elsewhere.)

    3. Mid*

      Is it possible to rearrange the team so you’re in two rows of two, without making a different team more spread out?

      Is it possible to move desks so you’re more in the middle and one of the socially bolder team mates is the stand alone?

    4. Strive to Excel*

      Have them say “Hey Maple, what do you think?”

      Alternatively can you somehow swap so that your cubicle opening is facing their cubicle openings rather than having each others wall facing each other?

  20. Not A Project Manager*

    Do you have issues communicating to your staff that things are Not Normal? I had the weirdest conversation with my grandboss the other day about applying to federal EJ funding. For context, all such grants are being frozen and this week the government said they were going to sue people who had received these funds in a prior grant cycle. That is an unprecedented thing to happen, but here we are. I said obviously I didn’t think the grant cycle was happening and it wouldn’t be a good idea even if it was – he said “but the application is still open on the website – can you call the Agency staff to see what’s going on?” That would be a totally normal suggestion in normal times, but really, you think a potential applicant is going to reach the (fired) workers at the EPA EJ division right now to ask them questions about applications?? And even if I could reach someone, that they would give me a straight answer? I feel like I’m losing my mind here having these conversations. Is this happening elsewhere or is my management particularly clueless? I see the first comment re: tariffs is at least in a similar boat.

    1. Lurker*

      This is a very real thing, those higher up have their head in the sand are going about as if it is “business as normal” when it most definitely is not.

    2. Bess*

      Do you have a legal expert you can consult? Maybe you can reroute that way so that you don’t have to be the decider here.

    3. Ri*

      Oh my goodness. I work for a federal agency that has mostly been spared so far but it is clearly only a matter of time. I cannot believe how oblivious my boss is about what is going on. He recently accused me of scaring my direct reports; I told him that I think he is misleading people into thinking their jobs are safe and is putting their financial stability at risk. Broadly, I don’t think I’ve had a hard time talking to my team about it but I’ve followed up more than once after a larger meeting led by my boss to tell my team specifically that I’m interpreting [current day chaos] a different way. Communicating upwards has been the most bizarre battle. It’s like we don’t work at the same place. Also – to the EJ thing specifically, I don’t work for EPA but I can confirm 100% that you’re getting nowhere with that. If someone called me to ask about my EJ related programs right now, I’d think that they were an alt right reporter or sent from the administration to find people who are defying executive orders.

    4. Laggy Lu*

      They are clueless. Feel free to tell them you’ve called and emailed and heard nothing back.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I would send the email off into the void to avoid a flat-out lie and then say I’d heard nothing back.

    5. fhqwhgads*

      Ha. It’s still open on the website because they fired whoever’s job it used to be to close the applications on the website.
      Best bet is probably to fudge it a little and just tell him you’ve confirmed it ain’t happening.

    6. JustaTech*

      I’ve had a couple of things come up at work where I asked higher ups about things happening at our regulating agency and how they will impact us.
      The person with more direct exposure basically said “it’s fine, proceed as normal” but at least had some specific reasons for that (he’s a lawyer, he referenced allllll the lawsuits).
      The other person was just like “not our problem”. And on the one hand I understand focusing on what you can control. But on the other hand I would appreciate knowing that senior leadership is at least paying attention and maybe it would be nice to have *some* kind of plan?
      (I tend to be a catastrophizer, but I also did really well in my Disaster Preparedness class in grad school, so while I want to reign myself in, I also see no value in burying my head in the sand.)

      So yes, a lot of senior people are not addressing how Not Normal everything is.

    7. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Cold hard truths you already know, written out of sorrow and bitterness–

      There won’t be any EJ funding and it’s a waste of time even to ask. That phrase is being edited out of the scope for numerous projects and others that already got the funding and don’t have it fully obligated are likely to lose it. I’m saying this as a state agency employee who’s waiting/expecting to be told to revise a federal grant scope we’ve already obligated and started expending. I’ve already had one federal research panel I’m on canceled, another research panel is having to change its scope to remove all references to equity.

      EJ is in the same category. You can easily find lists online of all the words being purged. They’re wholesale deleting documents that use those words–why would they give money to create more work they wouldn’t talk about online?

      As others have said, it’s sadly quite possible people were let go before they could take the NOFO down. If your job is to identify resources and then go after them, time looking for non-federal possibilities and developing those relationships would be better spent. Maybe talking with grandboss about percentage of effort and likely payoff would help? Federal funding is going down, not up.

  21. Emac*

    Should I indicate on my resume that my most recent job was hybrid/remote (1 day in the office)? I am looking for mainly hybrid/remote jobs and see some asking for evidence that the person can handle it but I’m not sure how to show that. Would it be in a cover letter or should it be something like “Town, STATE (hybrid/remote)” on the cover letter after the company name? And do I say hybrid or just remote?

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      To me that’s a cover letter thing, FWIW. “I have successfully worked a hybrid schedule for the past three years and find that I do my best work blah blah blah.”

      1. Paris Geller*

        Yeah, I was going to say–put it in the cover letter! I guess you could put Job Title (Hybrid) on your resume, but there’s so much variation as to what a hybrid job is, I could see the resume getting really bogged down if you try to explain your exact remote/in-office schedule.

    2. Other Fish*

      I think it makes sense to put it on your resume, since it sounds like it would be a value add here for the kinds of jobs you’re applying for. You could even say “Hybrid, primarily remote”

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      If you’re a manager you could sneak it in there as an accomplish, something about building connections as a split team hybrid and in person…

    4. crookedglasses*

      I’d also sneak it into a cover letter. Something like “During my tenure at Llamas, Inc. I worked across teams in a hybrid/primarily remote environment to streamline grooming processes.”

    5. iglwif*

      Because my last few employers were not located where I live and because 1 day in the office is the maximum I’m willing to do right now, when I was job-searching last year I put (remote) after the job location on my resume. Doesn’t take up a lot of space, and clarifies that I wasn’t moving around to all these different places!

      That said, I’ve never seen a job ad that explicitly wanted you to prove you can successfully WFH so this may not apply to your situation.

  22. Pancakes*

    What to do when your new boss isn’t catching on?

    I was a team of one for a few years before my previous manager’s position was backfilled. I was so excited for relief , but my new boss seems to be struggling. Constant technology issues, claiming to have never heard of processes and procedures that I know have shown her before (in recorded trainings so both of us can double check), working super late hours even though they haven’t ramped up to full duties yet.

    I haven’t really gotten the relief I need because I spend so much time explaining things to my new boss and things take longer than if I had just done them myself. But it seems like I do nothing? No one has checked in with me about how it is going and it seems like too much to go over my new boss’s head to their boss (who I used to report to).

    Maybe my expectations are just not realistic? I’ve never had to train my own boss before. It is been 3+ months.

    1. MsM*

      I think 3+ months is long enough to go to your boss’s boss and let them know your boss needs more intensive training on more basic issues than you can provide and still do your own job.

    2. Getting Away From Extremes*

      I’m going through something similar. How is your relationship with your new boss? Do you feel comfortable asking her how she sees her progress so far, and what she wants you to do differently to help her get up to speed faster? (You’d need a better wording, though…)

      If you don’t have the open communication where this kind of question lands as intended, there may not be much you can do, aside from discreetly flagging it to your grandboss (who should be aware if your new boss is floundering).

      3+ months feels like it should be more than enough time for a new person to get up to speed.

  23. I heard it both ways*

    I am a government contractor and I am worried about my job. I have a niche job so I am not confident I can find a new one easily. I have considered pivoting to something else but I have no idea what to pivot to or how to figure it out. I am also hoping someone has advice for how to deal with the anxiety and stress! I do have a therapist.

    1. GeorgiaB*

      No advise, just commiseration. I also work for a government contractor and am worried about my job. My role is not super niche, but I’ve been there for 15 years and am at a level below Director, so it’s hard to find anything comparable outside the GovCon space.

    2. Mockingjay*

      Government contractor here. Since the current Admin seems to be pushing privatization, I don’t think contracts are going away anytime soon. There’re so many. Especially if you work on a midsize contract that, regardless of the task or work involved, pretty much flies under the radar. Mine is a technical support contract that’s up for renewal at the end of the fiscal year. The only thing I can do, is execute my job to the best of my ability and ensure my company can showcase metrics for solid performance. The government agencies I support are also trying to keep to business as usual.

      Hubby and I are preparing for a layoff but otherwise living life as usual.

      1. Pine Tree*

        “….contracts are [not] going away anytime soon.”

        This is NOT true for specialized contracting jobs for programs and fields of study that are being completely dismantled, though. Not all contractors will so easily be able to just jump to another contract without completely changing their field of specialty. A climate scientist or fisheries biologist working on a contract is not likely to find another fed contracting job. Also, if there are any private sector jobs in those fields, they were usually dependent on federal funding in some way or another (or exist to respond to regulations that are in the process of being dismantled, too). Many, many people are facing the complete loss of their career, even after years of work and specialized education.

        Just wanted to point this out because I almost lost it when my own mother said “well, you’ll just find another job, you’ll be fine” when I’m facing the complete loss of my career in my field of study, and will likely have to do something completely different after graduate degrees and 20+ years of experience.

        1. mac and cheese*

          Also a contractor with graduate degrees +20 years, almost guaranteed to lose my job while my entire field is being burned to the ground (you’ll miss us dearly when we are gone because a huge portion of the economy depends on our science). I think the second round of RIFs is going to be the breaking point. All signs point to a process in which whole divisions are summarily eliminated – as has been seen with round 1- which brings with it stop work orders and even clawbacks on all associated contracts and grants.

          I am personally an thinking of trying to do independent SME consulting for a bit while pursuing a path toward leaving the country and/or purchasing a bit of remote land on which to live off-grid. I had been thinking of trying to pivot to climate risk but that field might not be tenable either.

          1. Pine Tree*

            I see you are in the same sinking boat with me… :( I have also been looking at property where I could live off-grid and sustain myself, maybe we’ll end up as science-refugees together. Would be nice to have a good neighbor.

            1. mac and cheese*

              I think an offgrid science cohousing settlement would be fantastic.

              There are multiple others at my office who have been thinking about hiding in the woods. Clearly this is the plot of a disaster movie, where the scientist at the start of the movie says “hey guys this is going to be bad” and no one listens…

      2. GeorgiaB*

        I work for one of the companies that has made DOGE’s top 10 list to try to cancel contracts with. We’re also already seeing a huge impact in procurements not being released. So no, it’s nowhere close to “business as usual”.

        1. I heard it both ways*

          I work for one of those companies too. This entire thing has got me worried. The plan was to work there until retirement…. now I am not even sure retirement is an option! Are you considering other jobs? I am wondering about a different career but how do you figure it out?

      3. I heard it both ways*

        I’m infrastructure – I am not sure if that is something that flies under the radar. I have only been doing this for about 2 years so this is a brand new experience. i thought I was gaining stability. now I am wondering if I should have stayed at my old job. I know the people I work with are very happy with my performance. I just have to hope that is enough and probably also keep my eye out for another job somewhere else, just to be safe.

  24. Ami*

    I have a question regarding something I’m seeing a lot more when job hunting. A few places have asked in lieu of a cover letter to write a statement on why I’d be qualified for the job. I don’t why but the last few times I’ve done it, it’s been a rough go and I get in my head about not sounding robotic or whatever. Does anyone have any tips for future reference? Thanks!

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Ah yes I see this a lot, and I just assume they actually basically want a cover letter, but a good cover letter, not just one that rambles through past roles. I just revise my usual cover letter to make it more pointed and shorter.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I could be off because I’ve never seen this before, but maybe what they are looking for is just the middle paragraph(s) of a cover letter. Instead off all the parts of a cover letter (the “Dear Hiring Manager” greeting, paragraph(s) that show why you are good for the job, closing paragraph with your contact details, “Sincerely, Ami” sign off) they are just looking for those “paragraph(s) that show why you are good for the job” without all the rest.

    4. basil and thyme*

      that’s a cover letter where you specifically tailor your experience to their job ad. For a draft: go through each of their points, and write a sentence or two as to why you’d be good at that task. Then make that into a cover letter.

      1. Not A Project Manager*

        Which, I mean, you should really be doing anyway, so it’s just a hint for people with poor cover letters basically.

    6. State worker*

      We have these in government. Sometimes they ask specific questions, but other times they are a general “tell us how you’re qualified.” Use as much detail as you can and match it to the job description.

    7. Ami*

      Hi everyone, I really appreciated everyone’s advice. I tried to shorten my cover letter a bit and make it more tailored. Not really happy with it (as I’m currently dealing with some personal stuff that’s making me anxious/frustrated right now) but I’m going to send it anyway. I’m not really expecting a response either, just hoping to get back into the job hunting swing of things as I had to take a month off. Thanks again everyone!

  25. Productivity Pigeon*

    I’ve been staring at my resume all day. Well, for months, to be honest.

    I just need to convince my ADHD brain to let me make it good enough. So that I can finally, *finally* break my job search paralysis before my life collapses completely.

    (Burnout, unemployed, ADHD, family stuff, brain gremlins…)

    I’ve identified that I struggle to apply to jobs because I’m terrified of being rejected and if I don’t apply, I don’t have to find out that I might be rejected.

    But the situation’s getting desperate.

    Any and all advice and general encouragement welcome.

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      As someone who hasn’t done her taxes yet, I feel this. Everyone’s brain is a little different so you might need to figure out your own “hack” but for me, I can sometimes accomplish things by making it a Special Occasion. Frequently this works against me, because I’m waiting for the “Special Occasion” to do things instead of just … doing them, but sometimes I can hack it in my favor, such as by going out to a nice place to Do The Thing (in my case, a Mexican cantina) and stopping and ordering a drink after I hit arbitrary goal #1 (so maybe that’s complete draft of taxes for me, for you it might be just sending a few applications). Shifting the pressure to just doing the thing and not thinking about all the follow up can help me at some point.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        Ah, that’s a trick I haven’t tried! I like it.
        I do need to just not think and just do.
        My newly acquired career coach keeps telling me I just need to get them interested enough in me. My resume doesn’t need to be perfect, just interesting enough. And the job I wanna apply to, I am more than qualified for, even with a spotty employment history.

        I’m seriously considering opening a bottle of wine. I very rarely drink but I just need to get over this molehill-mountain and manage to apply to ONE job.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      A few thoughts, in case any of them work for you (please ignore any suggestions that are difficult/impossible for you):

      – In my experience, most places don’t actually send a rejection email. I just never hear back from them. I don’t know if that hits your fear of rejection the same way, but if “never hear a response” is more palatable, remind yourself of that before you apply

      – Set a goal for yourself to apply to X number of jobs per (week/month). Your goal is to send applications out into the world, nothing more. Don’t think about what happens after your applications are submitted, your goal is just to hit that “submit” button.

      – Reward yourself for hitting the submit button. Submit one application? Eat a cookie (or some other small reward). Submit five applications? Treat yourself to a dinner at your favorite restaurant, a movie at the movie theater, etc. (larger reward for more applications submitted)

      – Do you have a friend or family member who would be willing to literally press the submit button/the send button for an email? You get everything queued up, and your friend/relative clicks the mouse.

      1. Stuff*

        Did this and can advocate for the idea that you just send out applications. I forced myself to submit an application every business day of the week when I was looking for a job at a particular location with a wide variety of openings. To motivate myself, I made a very personal list of motivational WHYs that I reviewed every day as well as a list of hard things I have already done in my life. When I got good at overcoming the activation hump for applications (right now, it seems impossible, but after a few weeks at the most, you will get to that point!), I let myself submit five on Saturdays. They didn’t even need to be particularly in my corner (I applied for things that I can definitely see were far outside of my realm) but I applied to one every day. Good luck, I was there and we are all rooting for you.

    3. Emac*

      I so feel this, as a fellow ADHDer with burnout, brain stuff, and family stuff who’s job hunting. One thing that has helped me is ChatGPT – as controversial as that might be, it’s been a lifesaver for me. I get the paralysis too and just having ChatGPT spit out a resume or cover letter that gives me something to start with has helped immensely.

      I’m also a big proponent of temp agencies if that exists in your field. I find working with a temp recruiter to be very helpful as they will usually interview anyone and everyone, then they actually know you a little to be able to sell you to a prospective client. It’s a way to get yourself in front of someone who wants you to come across your best since they get paid by how many jobs they fill successfully. (And if you’ve never used one, you should *never* have to pay them – the good ones all get their money from the company who is looking for someone. At least in the US, that’s how it goes.)

      1. JustaTech*

        Normally I’m firmly anti-ChatGPT, but I did use it to review a cover letter I had already written from scratch and I was just kind of floored at how the very very small changes it made impacted the flow of the whole letter.
        I didn’t use the ChatGPT version (I’d already submitted the application) but I have used it to figure out how to make my writing better. (My problem is that my tone swings wildly between an easy flow and the parts that are very formal, stiff and stilted.)

    4. Other Fish*

      Send it to a friend right now. You need some kind of external pressure and feedback and you’re not gonna get it from yourself!

        1. Generic Name*

          What would make it ready? Could your friend’s feedback jump start you into making the changes necessary to make it “ready”? What would happen if you applied to a job you didn’t care if you got called in for an interview with your “not ready” resume?

        2. The Prettiest Curse*

          An ex-colleague of mine had this printed out and pinned up in their cube:
          Start before you’re ready. Just start.

          If you wait until your resume is “ready”, it will NEVER be ready.

    5. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

      This is really tough! One trick I use when working with folks who need to start a resume is to have them simply tell me what they did at a job, and I take the notes. Then I read those notes back to them and ask them to tell me where I’m missing something or have misrepresented their work. Then we write those bullet points together. If this sounds doable, a professional resume-writer (not my job, really, but part of what I do) may be useful to you!

      Otherwise, my advice depends on where you are in the resume-drafting cycle.

      If you have a draft but don’t think it’s good enough, I want you to think very concretely about what “good enough” would mean – more specific examples? clearer formatting? or does your brain interpret “good enough” to mean “this will get me an interview and/or job every time I send it out”? If it’s the former, pick ONE line and work on that line. If it’s the latter, that document does not exist and you may as well submit whatever you have now!

      If you don’t have a draft at all, don’t worry about making it good enough – make it BAD enough. Make it bad enough to give to someone else for comments. Make it bad enough to see necessary corrections at a glance. Make it bad enough that someone who knows you and your work would say “Wait, what about B, don’t you think that’s relevant for the role of B-Document Producer?”

      Sending good luck from my ADHD brain to yours!

    6. Ellis Bell*

      Oh, wow, are you me? I have done this cycle so many times, and know exactly how part of you doesn’t even want to solve the problem. Mind you, this week I applied for something that was a ten page application, documenting my every role since the age of 16 (they need this in my field, for safeguarding checks). I logged on every night for a few days and got it in a week before the deadline; if I can do this, anybody can. My tip is to pretend it’s a low stakes game that rewards you in treats, do it in Pomodoro chunks, or whatever time chunks sound appealing enough to get you off the procrastination couch, and to make that time chunk a completely atypical part of your daily routine. So, it’s tempting to push all job stuff (or anything unappealing to the ADHD brain) to the weekend, or into being a once-weekly task, but to train yourself out of apathy and aversion, I think a daily dose of practice is best. I will get off the procrastination couch if I tell myself I only need to do ten, or twenty minutes of something and I’m not allowed (favourite) show/snack/activity until the hated task is done. Slide it into the same category of other unfun things you do every day, and try to treat the only outcome as being able to claim your reward; your goal is not to avoid rejection, it’s simply to do the task and claim your treat and to be able to say “I tried my best”. So, after dinner, I will turn on the dishwasher, take ten minutes to scan job listings, wipe down the kitchen while thinking about the listings and which one to go for, and how I will change my basic CV (resume) to fit the role (that’s why it only needs to be good enough – you’re going to tailor it anyway). Then I go back and do an acceptable time limit on the chosen listing, returning next day to finish off if I need to. Put all job application deadlines in a calendar or notification app for the day before; not only will it help you to avoid missing them, but the “panic monster” system of working on deadline might work better for you if you’ve let it drop when there was time for procrastination.

    7. Coverage Associate*

      When I was employed and needed to job search, I would set aside a block of time twice a month to do it, and only work on initial applications during that time. (It was first and third Fridays, when I had book club second and fourth, so I sort of already had the time blocked off in my life.)

      When I was unemployed and job searching, I had a separate email address for it. That way I could communicate with family or whatever without having to look at job stuff.

    1. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

      As a fellow female software engineer, I wouldn’t wear that to work, specifically because of the length.

      1. Nicki Name*

        Seconding this. If it were at least knee-length, I’d say it depends on your workplace. At the very casual end of business-casual, I think it would be fine if it were longer.

    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      I’m someone who almost always wears dresses or skirts, and I certainly don’t thumb my nose at a minidress.

      But I think this is a bit much for a regular office. The velvet, the length and just general feel… it’s a wonderful party dress, or even a dinner date one.

      I do recon it could work with some thick black tights and understated shoes but it wouldn’t be my first choice for office wear.

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      Not professional for work. Velvet already a tough fabric to make professional even in traditional cuts. Length and the wrap make it less appropriate too. It’s giving bathrobe vibes. You’d have to wear thicker leggings or some sort of pant with it to work in a office job.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Yep. You could probably get away with velvet OR short OR wrappy, but all three together is a lot.

    5. Faye*

      On the contrary, I think it’s fine depending on your office. I’d probably wear a lengthening underskirt (Amazon has some lace skirts) if you are on the taller side and feel it’s too short.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        Yeah, I think other than the length, it’s fine. However, I do not work in software engineering with a bunch of judgy men, so I can’t speak for that.

    6. Sweatpant Diva*

      You’re getting mostly nos, but I’d say “depends on your office.” In my office if someone wore that no one would bat an eye. Our developers are mostly younger and I couldn’t care less what they wear.

    7. Cabbagepants*

      I am shocked at the negative replies. This dress would be fine as long as your accessories/makeup are conservative/traditional, and yes you do need some opaque leggings.

    8. LaminarFlow*

      I am a software engineer, and I have worn similar things to work. I also don’t have to adhere to any sort of dress code (folks can and do wear jammies if they want to). Throwing on a biker jacket or blazer, dark opaque tights & boots also dresses this frock way down for a daytime vibe.

    9. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Disclosure – male software engineer.

      Others have commented on the length; it’s probably on the edge of what I’d consider appropriate office wear. I’ll comment on the hosiery.

      I don’t think fishnets are appropriate office wear. And together with the dress it gives off a costume vibe.

      But wear that with black tights or hose and I wouldn’t blink, and that would eliminate the length issue too.

    10. Anonymous for this*

      Thanks for the replies! I was thinking of wearing it with thick black or coloured tights/leggings. On me it is nearly knee length – I am tall with a really short torso. About the cleavage: I always alter these types of dresses in a way that the cleavage doesn’t open. I often wear velvet on weekdays and gothic clothes (despite being in my late 30s). We don’t have a dress code and many of my colleagues expose their midriff or are covered in tattoos and piercings, where others are dressed more conservatively. I might give it a try.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        You’ve proven my guess; when I clicked on the link I thought “I bet this person is petite, or short in leg/torso and mini dresses are their hack, and are actually knee length to them”.

      3. JustaTech*

        Yes, styling it that way sounds very different from how it’s styled in the picture. And if you already wear velvet in the office then you’re already aware of the dust-magnet issue with velvet (if you have to be digging under or behind a desk).

        1. Anonymous for this*

          Oh…I never had that issue despite having 2+ hour commutes on public transport.

    11. Kay*

      I would define this squarely as being casual/going out attire and not professional attire. Are there some workplaces where this would be fine? Sure. If you are asking I’m guessing that your workplace isn’t one of them.

    12. Annie G*

      Too short for sure. May also show a lot of cleavage depending on body type. And as others have said, velvet is traditionally for (cold-weather) evening wear—I wouldn’t categorize it as inappropriate, just out of place.

    13. Oh January*

      I think if you already dress pretty goth/alternative and you wore opaque leggings underneath it, it could work. I don’t necessarily agree that velvet is formal (as a Business Punk who occasionally ends up in the middle of a Punk/Goth venn diagram) but it is pretty short if you have medium to long legs. If you have super short legs and it hits just above the knee… sure.

      If you don’t already dress kind of alt I think it would be distracting to the point of unprofessionalism though.

  27. Birdy*

    Advice for writing a self-assessment and not shooting myself in the foot or focusing too much on the negatives? My own worst crtic keeps on coming out.

    I know I will most likely get partially met in one or two metrics, or at least deserve it. I also know I am fully capable of doing better and being mindful of my weaker areas and mistakes. Most of it can be chalked up to stress and ADHD (and frustration, I don’t want to talk about that part), but I hate using that as an excuse/reasoning. My actions are my actions.

    I just want to be able to say “here’s what I did last year” without it being 80% negatives because in reality it wasn’t 80%.

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      What’s the expectation in your workplace? If I’m doing an employee evaluation like to decide raises, I don’t say a single negative thing about myself, unless they absolutely force me to with a question like “what was your worst outcome this year.” I treat it like a resume, a marketing document. It’s up to my boss to counter with negatives if they feel differently. I certainly wouldn’t mention ADHD or anything, I would just list what I felt were my best accomplishments in the year. Avoid self incrimination, IMO. But if this is out of step with how others in the org treat the process I would try to adjust.

      1. Birdy*

        I think you have the right work place expectation. It’s just annoying when in the past I have written “hey, look at this stuff I did!”, then the manager comes back with how much I struggled or something, and my comments sound oblivious at best. But yeah, I guess it is their job to counter or fill in context. That’s a good what of viewing it.

    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      Oh, I know the feeling!

      I know this isn’t helpful right now, but for next year, consider keeping a document with copies of nice emails you’ve gotten, and a ”win”-log. Doesn’t need to be huge wins, but I find documenting them as I go along really helps me remember what I’ve actually accomplished.

    3. allx*

      Personally, I think a self-assessment is not the place to be brutally honest about your short-comings. Figure out what you accomplished this year, and write it in the most positive light. My practice is to only write the good things in self-assessments and to make them as factual and number-driven as possible. The metric measures the finish line, but in any goal, there are lots and lots of steps that move you toward acheivement. Focus on the steps you have taken for each one. Even areas where you feel you fell short can be couched in terms of progress made.

      For instance, if a goal was “land two new client accounts” and you did not land two new accounts, you would focus the assessment on the many steps that moved you closer to that goal. Things like cultivating relationships with people who could help, undertaking research of markets/companies in the space of the targets; lunches, meetings, attendance at events, potential business in the pipeline, the number of all the potential clients you reached out to (and possible list) etc. If the goal was a hard number, like sell $xxxxxx of product, and you sold $xxx dollars of product, you would focus on what you sold, what is queued up/in process, who you are developing relationships with etc. If the metric is something like “handle and resolve xxxx-high volume number of customer calls” and you are short of the goal, you would look at the reasons why (disproportionate share of tricky problems that took more time to resolve; calls that required extensive research, back-ordered goods, coordination with others; calls that were difficult to resolve that you successfully navigated).
      And it’s generally good to also mention any ways you helped your colleagues move toward their goals as well.

      1. LaminarFlow*

        +1 to all of this! I’m not about to point out all of my fails to a person who is responsible for my performance rating & raise!

    4. Cabbagepants*

      Conjure your inner mediocre white man. write about yourself the way he would write about himself

      1. JustaTech*

        Alternatively, write it as though you were writing about your favorite coworker, or a really good friend. Be your own hype-person.

        You can always scale back after the first draft if it’s way too rah-rah-rah!

    5. thatsjustme*

      Always be your biggest hype man or hype woman or hype nonbinary person in the self-assessment. Play up every positive thing you’ve done. When it comes to areas where you feel like you’re not living up to your potential, talk about the things you’ve done to address that (eg, started using Grammarly to avoid typos in documents) and any ideas you have for improvement or growth in those areas.

      If your boss has specific things they want to ding you for, they’ll point that out. You don’t need to do it for them. With self-evals, you want to put on your “nearly delusional confidence” hat.

    6. Neither Here Nor There*

      Can you check in with your manager on how these are usually written?

      Where I am, you don’t put anything bad in your self review. It’s all hype. Every metric is at least “meets,” because “partially meets” is code for “this is a serious problem we need to talk about.” Even if your work does want you to include self-criticism, an 80% negative self-review wouldn’t make me think you were just being critical of yourself–I’d think that your opinion is that you’re profoundly struggling with your job. That could backfire!

      I am also intensely self-critical, and I also value being honest with myself about my flaws, but this probably isn’t the place to do it.

  28. Tea Monk*

    How is everyone job searching in all this uncertainty? How are you guys changing your search? I worry my parameters ( over 50k a year with health insurance) will be hard to hit

    1. ThatGirl*

      I’m not really job searching right now, but $50k with health insurance seems like a pretty low bar? Unless you’re in some specifically low-paying line of work?

      1. Tea Monk*

        I don’t think I will be moving soon so I’m pegging it to a middle class paycheck here not in New York or California. I need to move fields- doing some social work right now, but I will not get into some high paying field

        1. ThatGirl*

          Well, either way, companies will always be hiring – even if things slow down, people still change jobs, it might take longer for you to find what you want/need but I think your expectations are reasonable.

    2. Emac*

      I’m trying anything and everything, basically. I just signed up for FlexProfessionals, which someone here suggested a few weeks ago. They work in the DC and Boston areas. And it seems like a great resource so far – they had an open intro Zoom meeting and have webinars that are free on different topics like career changing and resume review.

      1. Tea Monk*

        That sounds good. Even if I don’t get anything it’s important to actually be ready to jump

    3. Busy Middle Manager*

      What field? Looks like almost all new jobs the past few month have been “education and health services” while IT is flat and “business services” is negative. Doesn’t help to have lower expectations if no one is hiring anyway

      1. Tea Monk*

        I could pivot into education and health, but it just depends on whether it’s a sustainable job ( like do I have to work all night long? Is it 60 hours a week?) orthat it’s not going to be taken away because Trump decided it was woke.

    4. FD*

      Kind of frustrating. I’m lucky enough to have a current job, but I don’t think my nonprofit is going to survive. At this point I’m a mid-career accountant, but a lot of really strong experience, but I’m mostly just getting rejections without even a phone interview, even though I’ve run my resume and cover letter across a few people, and it’s been told that it’s quite strong.

  29. Prawo Jazdy*

    Is “they gotta kid to feed” a good argument not to fire someone?

    In the past I’ve been stuck in a few workplaces with a toxic ogre who drives other employees away and generally embodies many of those tedious pathologies that come up over and over in letters to this site.

    In those cases, the consensus had been that the toxic person cannot be let go because “they gotta kid to feed”, i.e. the managers would feel better about losing a few employees than about targeting an innocent kid by firing their parent. And I can’t decide if I agree with that argument or not.

    1. MsM*

      Other employees don’t have people they need to care for more than they need the instability of finding a new job away from the problem employee?

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Expand the “kid to feed” argument and see if you still agree with it.

      The company is trying to decide between Job Candidate A and Job Candidate B. A has more experience, and one kid. B has less experience, and three kids. The company hires Candidate B because they have more kids to feed.

      Employee C gets married and moves in with their spouse (who also has a job). The company decreases C’s paycheck because “they don’t need as much money now.”

      Employee D’s spouse gets divorced and their (ex-)spouse moved out of the house. The company gives D a raise because their housing expenses are higher now.

      Employee E has one kid, who grows up and moves out. The company decreases C’s paycheck because “they don’t have a kid to feed anymore.”

      Is that a company you want to work for?

    3. pally*

      Perhaps the better way would be to give an extra generous severance.

      (Does it count if one does not have kids, but financially supports family members?)

      Short term, it is certainly ‘easier’ for management to opt to keep the toxic person and offer up excuses instead of taking actions (warnings, PIP, documentation of issues, termination). The hope is folks will learn to just grin and bear it. The reality is losing the good employees-at least those who have options outside of the job they have.

      Hlao-roo, excellent analysis!

    4. Rex Libris*

      IMHO, Firing should be based on job performance and conduct, period. Everyone has a personal life that requires a paycheck to fund it, otherwise they wouldn’t work.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      So… I work hard, try to get along with everyone, do work that gets great feedback, yet they’re willing to let me leave because I don’t have a kid to feed?

      If I had a kid to feed, and I was told to do certain things to keep my job, I would probably do them so I wouldn’t get fired. Has no one spoken to this person about his performance?

      1. Prawo Jazdy*

        I’m actually referring to three different ogres in past jobs (going back 25 years) that were strikingly similar situations when looking back on it. In each case the toxic person was an entrenched company lifer that was proud of their “tough” personality. They also overshared about their kids, which was maybe a strategy to get sympathy (if so, it worked).

        1. Hlao-roo*

          It too bad that no one managing those three ogres did what this company owner did:

          4. The thief and the hero

          “At a temp secretarial job back in the day, the owner had a buffet set up for the employees as an appreciation lunch for completing a particular project (which was why I was there to temp since it was an all-hands/emergency situation). One of the very well-paid senior employees took an entire tray of meatballs and an entire tray of pasta off of the buffet line, after the managers/seniors went, but before any of the other employees, who had to take a slightly later lunch that day. When called on it, he said that he needed it to feed his kids for the week – and the owner said if the only way he could feed his children was by stealing from his job and taking food from lower-paid employees, he was welcome to it. But the owner would be accompanying him to the food stamp office to apply or reporting him to CPS if he refused, because feeding his children should be his first priority and if his children could only be fed by stealing, that wasn’t something that could be ignored. It turned into a public argument about how the owner was shaming him for liking expensive things and needing a little help sometimes. Ended up as the employee’s last day.”

          (Story from “the thief and the hero, the crockpot discrimination, and other stories of potlucks at work” posted on November 22, 2022. I’ll link to the post in a reply.)

    6. A.*

      I think sometimes managers either do not feel they have to explain their staffing decisions to you or are not at liberty to explain their staffing decisions to you so they throw out a bland statement like this.

      How would you respond if the manager said “I’m not going to discuss hiring and firing with you.”

      You, specifically, might be fine with that. But many people would see that as an opening to negotiate that the manager doesn’t want to get into.

      Sometimes people say things like this at work not because it’s true but because it ends the conversation.

    7. Mariana Twonch*

      No. We all have responsibilities, which is why we work. Kids aren’t the only reason people need income. If we value being able to meet our obligations, we should seek to behave in ways that make us less likely to be fired. In other words, this is the ogre’s problem, not his employer’s.

    8. CzechMate*

      Once upon a time, I discovered that a coworker had done some Very Bad Things with some Very Confidential Documents. I brought it to my manager, and he was fired.

      Coworker had just gotten divorced and was engaged in a testy custody battle with his ex. I hadn’t necessarily wanted my coworker to get FIRED, but now (in my mind) he could lose his chance to have partial custody of his children because of me. I ended up calling my dad crying.

      My dad was married twice before my mom entered the picture, so he actually knew a thing or two about custody battles. When I laid it all out, he said, “I’m glad you care so much, but how is that your problem? If getting partial custody of his kids mattered so much to him, he should have worked harder to keep his job.”

  30. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

    Sorry in advance for the length of this comment!

    I’m the only case manager at a social services agency serving 1000+ clients, and am absolutely not suited to the job. I’m trying to put together an exit plan that involves me having health insurance, but that’s been extremely difficult in the current political/economic climate. So for as long as I need to stay here, I want to work on mitigating – or at least finding workarounds for – some of the more dysfunctional work habits I’ve developed here. I do have ADHD, my particular brand of which is a spectacularly terrible fit for my org’s work culture, even when medicated. I won’t go into the details because that would make this way too long, but basically this job was tailor made to focus on my biggest weaknesses.

    My main issue is the phone/voicemail. I’ve always preferred written communication to oral, but in past jobs I could suck it up and take calls/respond to messages in a warm, professional way – in fact, I was so convincing that people were surprised to hear I wasn’t a big fan of the phone.
    This job has worn down that skill to the point where the sound of my phone ringing activates my startle reflex the same way a horror movie jump scare does (and I’m a giant baby about horror movies). My voicemail inbox is a graveyard of unopened messages going back months. That’s unacceptable in any job, but especially one serving extremely vulnerable people. Our client population has varying levels of education, literacy (some never learned to read or write), and tech savviness. By being responsive to email but not the phone, I’m behaving not just unproductively but inequitably.

    I’ve identified some of the root causes and have tried to find workarounds, but nothing has really stuck. In no particular order:

    1. Most of our clients speak Spanish, but not all. Unlike most other departments, I don’t have separate English and Spanish extensions – I’m a one-person department with only one phone and never know which language to answer in. I usually default to English, because while our Spanish speaking clients may pause or sound disappointed that I might not speak their language, some of our English speakers spew some pretty potent vitriol if they’re greeted in Spanish.

    It sounds so trivial here, but I get worn down after the fourth or fifth time I answer in English, get an awkward pause, and start over in Spanish. Since most of our clients speak Spanish, this happens a lot.

    I’ve tried quickly looking up the phone number in our system before picking up, but a) our system is slow, and the phone keeps ringing during that whole process, which I’m sure is grating for the people working near me, and b) once I pick up, do I pretend not to know who is calling? Clients know each other and sometimes swap phones, or families might share, so I probably should still verify. But sometimes a coworker will see me go through this whole lookup process and still ask for the caller’s name and DOB, and then look at me weird, as if it’s some petty power trip to make them wait and then prove who they are. Which, again, should not be such a big deal if I just explain why I do it. But it adds to the total cognitive load that goes into just *answering* the phone, let alone having the conversation.

    2. I don’t know what people are calling about or how long the conversation will take. For someone who struggles with time management, that’s a problem. I try to schedule my day, but I’m constantly being interrupted with urgent fires to put out, even without taking the phone into account. The phone adds a whole new dimension.

    From my vantage point, I can see which client issues are most urgent and which can probably wait, but to the client, whatever they’re calling about is usually the most stressful issue in their life, and they want to talk to someone about it. My job is supposed to be more about finding solutions and connecting them with resources, but how can I interrupt someone to do that when they’re unburdening themselves about something they probably needed to work up the courage to call about in the first place?

    To complicate things further, I don’t come from the same culture as most of our clients, and Spanish is my second language. It seems like many of our clients come from cultures where interruption IS expected, so they’ll speak for 10+ minutes at a time without leaving a natural pause for me to smoothly switch gears. I just can’t figure out where/how to jump in. Since these issues are emotionally fraught, they often speak quickly or through tears, and I don’t understand everything they’re saying (because second language), so I end up interrupting to ask them to repeat themselves (which is probably not fun for them, because emotionally fraught) and don’t want to interrupt yet again to either schedule an appointment for another time or explain the solution. And often the solution is very, very quick and easy! But it doesn’t actually end up being quick and easy because I’m so bad at handling the give and take of these conversations. So picking up the phone basically feels like playing Russian roulette with my schedule/ability to focus for the rest of the day.

    2b: It seems like letting more calls go to voicemail would be the solution to this, but not so. My voicemail greeting requests that people leave a brief description of the reason for their call, but many of them still just say “please call me back,” which brings us back to not being able to budget time for the call. When they do tell me what they need, it’s often in a roundabout way that makes my brain itchy – I get restless having to take in information at the speed at which they speak, when I can read much more quickly. That sounds so petty and small, but it truly does make things so much more difficult.

    We do get emailed transcriptions of our voicemails…but only English voicemails. I know there are third party transcription services that work with more languages, but since clients are sharing personal and sensitive information, I probably shouldn’t feed their voicemails through there.

    3. Because my “caseload” is all the clients, my time fills up very quickly with work that comes to me via other avenues (email, fax, notes on my desk, people coming over to my office, the separate email system in our client tracking software, Teams…basically everything but carrier pigeon). And because the phone is particularly painful for me, it’s easy for me to neglect it. I sometimes put my phone on DND so I can focus, and actually get a lot done and feel SO productive…then remember my phone is on DND, look at my voicemail inbox, and despair. I’ve tried setting aside time at the beginning of my day just to deal with voicemails, but again, I’m also getting interruptions from every other direction, many of which I can’t ignore. It seems like I can stay on top of my scheduled workload + interruptions when my phone is on DND and I forget my voicemail exists, but reintroducing the phone tips the scales into overwhelm, and I end up dissociating and just doing nothing.

    Those are the broad strokes. Any advice would be helpful. I have looked into changing the ringtone on my phone to a less harsh/startling one, but all the options have me jumping out of my skin. I am in therapy, but that can only do so much.

    1. MsM*

      1. “Hello, this is X. Before we begin, do you prefer English or Spanish?” Presumably the Spanish speakers will at least be able to pick up on the question. Or you could just go with “Hello, this is X,” wait for them to respond, and offer to switch to Spanish if they try English but are struggling.

      Similarly, on the lookup issue, you can just say “Before we continue, I need to verify your name and DOB.” Maybe your coworkers think it’s overkill, but I don’t think most people on the other end will question or be too annoyed that you’ve got process stuff you need to check off.

      2. Yeah, I think you’re just going to have to get better at interrupting. “I’m sorry, that all sounds very stressful, and I’m glad you reached out. Am I correct in assuming you’re calling for help with X?” Or “It’s okay: if you can just take a deep breath for me and summarize the issue as best you can, I’m here to help.”

      3. Blocking out time on your calendar for calls is the best strategy for dealing with them while still making room for the rest of your tasks. I get the beginning of the day instinct, but if you feel better having completed other tasks first, maybe shift it to mid-morning.

      Good luck. I sympathize with the cringing when the phone rings instinct, so I am glad you’re working to find something that works better for you.

      2. Ginger Baker*

        In addition a to these and the other suggestions – which are great – could you practice saying something like “thank you for verifying your personal details. My Spanish is pretty good, but it is my second language, so if you can go just a bit slowly while you tell me what you’re calling about, it will help me to make sure I am understanding and get you the help you need as efficiently as possible. What can I help you with today?”

        For the general phone phobia, I know this sounds ridiculous but can you make sure you smile when you pick up the phone and maybe say something in your head like “this is going to be a great call – a chance to help someone!” Or “I got this!” And when the call is done, do some tiny celebration (jazz hands, say silently to yourself “whew! Good job me!!” I realize this sounds absolutely bonkers but you can basically brainwash yourself into at least slightly better associations with phone calls – currently the bring up all your feelings of shame and overwhelm and reprogramming that body response is key to making this manageable for at least a little longer. <3

      3. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        Thanks for the suggestions!

        1. I currently answer the phone with a variation of “Hello, this is X” and wait for a pause/request for Spanish. Sometimes a Spanish speaker who knows some English will try to get by in English, at which point I ask if they prefer English or Spanish. Not a perfect solution (there likely isn’t one!) but it’s reassuring to know I’m on the right track.

        2. I like the “am I correct in assuming your calling for help with X?” script! I’ll try it out.

        3 Oof. The thing is that the beginning of the day is really the only time I can actually decide what I’m doing. I usually start getting interrupted by the front desk and coworkers with Urgent Matters around 10, which gives me about 2 hours for focused work. After that, getting back to my plan is hopeless. I can sometimes get through a few voicemails in that time, but I’ve found that if I don’t call people back immediately after listening to their message, I end up with a very organized list of messages that I never end up addressing. And since the follow-up calls can take a while, I end up getting new voicemails at a much faster rate than I can reply to them. Sigh.

    2. Lurker*

      Part of this seems like a systems problem that those above you need to fix. For example why can’t the person transferring the call to you tell you if the client speaks English or Spanish? How large is your case load? Do you need to block of specific times in the day for specific tasks in your calendar? If someone calls during a time that you are not taking client calls you can call them back. That is what voicemail is for. You can’t be all things to all people all the time.

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        When it’s a transfer, the person transferring usually tells me which language the client speaks. But most of the calls are directly from clients dialing my extension, so there’s no intermediary to give me a heads up.

        I don’t have a set caseload – technically, my “caseload” is the whole agency, but not all of the clients need case management. My services enhance the core mission of the agency, but most clients come for a specific reason that doesn’t require interaction with me.

        And yeah, I think the only real solution (other than leaving) is to figure out how to block time to call people back. Much easier said than done, though!

    3. Mid*

      This is a little thing, but can your voicemail be clear that people leaving a message without details will not be called back? “Please leave a message summarizing your issue. Messages without a summary of the issue will not be returned.” It sounds harsh, but it could at least slightly reduce the volume of voicemails you have to return.

      Mostly, this job seems to have an impossible workload and needs more than one person doing it. I know you know this, and I know you’re trying to leave. And I know how important health insurance is to have! But this job seems so overwhelming and like it’s going to burn you out. So could you also reach out to your doctors and see if there’s a way for you to get 3 months of services and medications at once, and then quit your job, so you have a 3 month buffer before not having insurance is an issue?

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        I have been tempted to add some variation of “if I know why you’re calling, I can respond sooner”! I’ve been hesitant because some of my coworkers do have to call me occasionally, and there are a few (who unfortunately have some influence) who complain when I make myself “inaccessible.” This isn’t exactly that, but seems “inaccessible-adjacent” enough to give me pause. But I might just say fuck it.

        I’ve been lobbying for a helper for years! I don’t think my old supervisor advocated for me to the CEO very well, but she retired last year and I was moved to another department. I work more closely with my current supervisor, and she has been very vocal about getting me help. The response has always been that it’s “not in the budget.” Meanwhile, we keep adding people to other departments, that (per my friend in operations) have more of a “the existing staff doesn’t do their jobs” problem than a “not enough staff” problem.

        Also, I’ve sort of trapped myself in a cycle of shame –> unproductivity –> shame. I’m not getting very much done that’s measured in our monthly stats, even though I’m constantly dealing with some crisis or another. But the crises leave me too drained to do the “measurable” work, then I feel ashamed about leaving people hanging and dissociate into the internet, then feel ashamed about that…etc etc. My supervisor (who often works with me on the crises) is supportive, but has been transparent about the fact that it’s difficult to make the case for another case manager with my current numbers. She is trying to find ways to make the “crisis” work more visible to leadership/donors, but that’s difficult for reasons having to do with the nature of the work.

        I have been tempted to just quit, but with the job market (and the world in general) the way it is, I don’t think a 3 month buffer will be enough. Also, I’m so behind on everything that I’d be leaving a huge mess behind, which I’m worried would affect my references. My performance reviews have been great, but no one knows exactly how bad things have gotten under the surface. But you’re right that I’m burning out.

    4. Strive to Excel*

      1000+ clients? ONE THOUSAND?

      You could have the best bloody phone service in the world and STILL feel stressed out of your mind. I imagine you’re stressed. Also, I know you say you’re in therapy – have you asked your therapist about coping mechanisms for what to do when there’s too many hurt people for you to help? Because it sure sounds like you’re getting phonecall after phonecall of people unburdening themselves. I bet your therapist has some recommendations because that’s *their job too*.

      Some advice:
      1. Is there any way to get your phone to sync with your system so that it can pull up the name of the person calling with you? Alternatively, is it possible (or legal) for you to pull together a quick lookup file with just phone numbers & preferred language?

      2. I know scripts feel sterile. I know they do. But you’re juggling a ton of people. If it helps to reframe in your mind that letting these people unburden themselves is resulting in fewer people being helped because it’s tripling the the length of the calls, frame it that way in your mind. Make yourself a script and start being OK with interrupting folks. You are not a therapy hotline. It is OK to not be a therapy hotline. Your job is to get them X resource to solve Y issue.

      3. You’re going to have to start triaging, I’m sorry to say. You’ve got a lot of people and as you said yourself, you have a better view of what can wait and what has to be dealt with right now. To that end, while you can’t limit how clients call you (I hear you on the equity!) you should certainly be able to limit how coworkers get ahold of you! Start keeping an inbox; email, paper on your desk, whatever you feel is best. Then tell your coworkers “Look – I’m not able to keep up. From now on, if it doesn’t come in via email I can’t promise I’ll see it”. Then start redirecting people. Someone comes into your office? “I’m sorry, I’m on calls right now, please send me an email”.

      1. MsM*

        Also, scripts are good because you can use them to practice – and as you start identifying patterns in the calls, you can figure out strategies for if a conversation starts going in a particular direction to get it to its conclusion more efficiently. It’ll also be a helpful resource for whoever takes over from you.

      2. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        Hi! I clarified in a response to an earlier comment, but not all of the clients need case management. Basically there are 1000+ people who use our main service who are *eligible* to be referred to me at any given moment, but I only receive referrals for a % of them. I’m realizing now that I have no idea exactly what % that is, but whatever it is is overwhelming.

        1. I don’t think we can sync our phones with the system for security reasons. I’ve thought of the spreadsheet idea before and could implement it pretty easily, but it’s kind of a grey area. It would be on my work computer, which does have client information in some documents/spreadsheets, but IT is really cracking down on security given our client population (mostly immigrants) and the current political climate. I can’t say I blame them.

        2. I like that reframe! I’m also going to try the script that MsM recommended above.

        3. I have started to tell coworkers that if it doesn’t send me a notification and isn’t searchable, there’s a good chance I won’t see it. A lot of them have changed how they send me referrals, but we have a revolving door of volunteers who it would be harder to retrain. My desk gets very cluttered very quickly, so I’ve started scanning all the paper people give me, which does help but also takes up time. I briefly considered asking for an accommodation where people scan things to my email instead of handing me paper, but I would have to disclose my ADHD (which my supervisor, as great as she is in other ways, seems to have some stigma about) and it would be cumbersome. Also, people here seem to be allergic to switching the copier/scanner settings to get both sides of two-sided documents, so I don’t really trust them to process everything they give me through the scanner. But I think I could get away with asking more people to send me emails when they pop over to my office for a “quick question.”

    5. Charly*

      Some services (e.g. GoogleVoice) offer call screening where the person calling has to identify themselves before you pick up. I used this when I was a caseworker to make sure I could keep track of people who frequently changed the numbers they were calling from and to triage my incoming calls. Could that be an option?

      For our main line, which didn’t have that, I transcribed all the voicemails each day into a spreadsheet and put them in order by call-back priority, rather than triaging live in my head.

      I will say though, my caseload was waaaaay smaller than yours and I could get coverage from colleagues when needed. I really think your org is doing you (and your clients!) a disservice by not staffing appropriately, so I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself for doing your best in this totally untenable sounding situation.

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        God, that call screening sounds like a dream. I’m revealing a bit about the kind of work we do, but we would need to get the paid version of Google Voice in order to be compliant with certain privacy laws, which our leadership is currently unwilling to do. Our org does use Microsoft instead of Google Suite, which also may have something to do with it? Idk how these things work.

        I did make a voicemail transcription spreadsheet a few years ago, but it fizzled out pretty quickly because I’d see the sea of orange (“needs attention” in my color code) and want to just give up. Then I tried only transcribing a few at a time to make it less overwhelming, but I’d still see the number of new messages on my phone and get demoralized. The method that seems to work best is just calling everyone back immediately after listening to their messages, but as you said, that doesn’t account for urgency and is just not very efficient in general.

        I should have been clearer in my original comment, but I don’t really have a set caseload. My services are kind of a complement to our main mission, so at any given moment there are 1000+ people who CAN be referred to me, but I would guess that I’ll never interact with most of them. And there’s still no upper limit to the number of referrals I’m working on at a given time, so I can’t say “sorry, caseload full, try again in a few weeks”.

    6. CzechMate*

      It honestly sounds like you’re describing my former workplace.

      1. Yes, you absolutely should default to English first–not only for the reasons you mention, but also because not every Spanish speaker WANTS to speak Spanish in every context and with every person. I’m also a nonnative Spanish speaker, so I would start in English and then switch when the other person indicated they wanted to. An old coworker used to start in English, then, if she sensed hesitation, she would say “Hablas español?” and then switch over.

      2. Latin America *tends* to be categorized by high context and indirect communication–i.e. in order to get things done, people feel they need to build rapport and give a LOT of context to get something done. Not sure if you’re working with folks who have recently arrived or if they are Spanish speakers who have, say, grown up in US, but more recent arrivals will probably do this more. (And if you say, “What is your call about?” they’re going to just continue with their story.) To be honest, I’ve only found two ways of solving this: 1) saying, “I hear you, but I need to go into a meeting in just a moment. Do you need a llama grooming referral, or an appointment with the llama department?” If someone is really freaked out, of course, that’s not going to work as well, so…I’ve honestly shifted my expectations to say, “If a person from this background is going to come in to see me, it’s going to take 45 minutes no matter what, and I’m just going to do it because it cuts down on calls/emails later.”

      3. Been there. It’s ultimately a staffing issue. You can spend all of your time trying to optimize your tasks, but ultimately, you probably need more bodies. It’s hard right now if you’re in the US, but it could be good to start telling leadership (if you can) that more staff is needed, because it’s just not feasible to manage the full caseload.

      Good luck!

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        Thanks for sharing your experience! I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with some of the same things, but it is validating to know I’m not alone.

        1. Yeah, the responses here have pretty much confirmed that defaulting to English is the best option.

        2. I’d be interested to see the numbers for our organization in general, but of the subset of clients who are referred to me, I’d say most of them arrived within the last 10 or so years. There are some notable exceptions who’ve been here for decades but still follow the conversational pattern you described, which I SUPER appreciate because it explains so much! There’s one client in particular who has certain needs that are not within my area of practice, so I referred them to the appropriate place. But they kept coming back and talking at length about how difficult things are without those resources, and every time I finally got around to interrupting and asking how I could help, they’d tear up and ask me for that thing I literally could. not. provide. I got the sense that they felt like if they just gave me enough information about how important this was, I’d “unlock” my services and get it for them. Maybe I wasn’t so far off, and they were used to having to provide that much context to get any kind of help. They haven’t asked in a while, which I hope is because they finally found the right person to help them and not because they’re resigned to me not “wanting” to help.

        3. Yup, it’s a staffing issue. I’ve been telling them for years, but as I’ve been burning out my metrics have pretty much flatlined, so my supervisor has been having a hard time justifying the expense. Also, my predecessor was a “rockstar” – super likable, and much more willing to overextend herself to do most of the work (even she couldn’t get to all of it, which she told me). She was also facing a very different ratio of level of need:availability of resources. But I feel like leadership remembers that she was able to handle the workload and thinks I’m just not committed enough.

        1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

          Honestly I don’t think most of this is on you. It sounds like an unfeasible workload, and if that’s the case, then no amount of skill or creativity in how to do it is going to solve that aspect of the problem. If you didn’t have an unfeasible quantity (as verified by previous person), I bet all the other difficult bits would be less overwhelming as well.

          I agree that if people are abusive to you, you should be allowed to end the call immediately, with some phrasing along the lines of “you’re welcome to call back without the rude words”. If you have reasonable management, they should be willing to help you come up with phrasing appropriate to the organisation, and help you to feel confident in knowing when it’s time for that move.

          For the talkative people whom you just need to gently interrupt, I recommend trying out “Let me just pause you there”, which I heard someone use a while back and have found to be a great format for a polite interruption!

        2. CzechMate*

          Re: clearly I’m horrible at choosing jobs’ second point “I got the sense that they felt like if they just gave me enough information about how important this was, I’d “unlock” my services and get it for them:” That’s VERY much a thing in Brazil, but you see it to a slightly lesser degree in other parts of Latin America as well. The default thinking tends to be “Bureaucratic systems were not designed for people like me [bc let’s be real, in Latin America they were sometimes designed by colonists, dictators, or corrupt politicians], and if you stand in line/follow the official instructions, nothing will ever get done.” This means that you need to find alternative methods to get things done, such as building a relationship with someone in power who eventually may help you out (even though they’re not supposed to), looking for loopholes, seeking points of negotiation, etc. If someone has spent their entire life doing that to get by in the world, it can be REALLY shocking and frustrating to come to the US and to discover that you can’t do that (and, if anything, it can make a bad situation worse).

          The best thing you can do is have someone who is from that same cultural background sit down with the person and explain this, but failing that, I’ve had to lay it out a bit more, i.e. “I’m sorry. I understand this is frustrating for you, but per US federal law, I cannot…” or “There are only TWO options available in this instance–follow x protocol or stop using the service…” or whatever.

    7. Ellis Bell*

      1. Terminate any abusive calls, or at least ask if they speak Spanish in English; if people dislike that, that’s not a You problem.
      2 You should also feel fine about interrupting an interrupter; they’ve signalled that’s how they want to communicate! Even in an emotional conversation; Yes, really! Interrupt with your quick and easy solution! Use the words “Allow me to interrupt!” Just do it! Also, Reframe how you talk about yourself; reading is absolutely faster and knowing that doesn’t make you “petty and small”. Without being kind to yourself first, no one else can benefit from your kindness.
      2b This is why voicemail sucks imo, and should be banned/turned off. If I were you, I would try to redirect people to a better avenue as part of your message; to reach me, try calling between (hours), and emailing (address) with your issue. Call them back, but redirect as much as possible.
      3. Can you put messages on the different avenues telling people what your preferred avenue is? “This is monitored weekly, so for fastest responses please call between Xpm and Ypm, or send an email which is monitored daily”. Then schedule less frequent checks on side avenues.
      4. You have to view the triaging as top priority because without that, no priorities can be identified! Spend defined hours on the phone, defined hours on email etc. You can only do what you can do, and what you do is valid, and heroic in such a shit, overwhelmed system. Triage is important work.

    8. Oh January*

      I lived for a while in Montreal, Quebec, a moderately Anglophone city in a very Francophone province, and a lot of service workers greet you and/or answer the phone “Bonjour hi,” which invites the client to continue in their choice of language. (Or at least they used to, I think now they legally have to greet you in French because of government fuckery, but I digress. It worked while it lasted!)

      Could you do something similar to that?

    9. Jinni*

      When I have this issue (in my personal life), I just do a greeting in two languages – then people usually get on with their language of preference OR ask me which I prefer to speak. If you have a specific script you need to answer with, I’m not sure this would work and not be exhausting.

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        Yeah, I need to answer in a certain way that would make a bilingual greeting a bit too long. Otherwise I would definitely do that!

        1. Sara K*

          Even if you can’t do the whole thing bilingually could you at least do a bilingual greeting? “Hello this is Clearly/Hola esta es Clearly*” or something similar? That would signal that the caller could use either language.

          *My Spanish is minuscule so I may not have that correct.

    10. Rosie*

      I don’t know how your agency works but there is no way there is enough time in the day for you to be a case manager for over 1,000 clients, even if you were the best in the world. Is it possible the phone situation is a bit of a distraction from the impossibility of the task at hand?

      1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        My workload is definitely too large, but I should have been clearer in my original comment! My services complement our main mission, but not everyone gets referred to me. But at any given moment, there are 1000+ people who CAN be referred to me, and there’s no upper limit to the number of cases I’m expected to work on at a given time. Still impossible, but not as outrageous as I made it seem!

      2. Canadian French Teacher*

        In bilingual areas of Canada, people just use both greetings at once – HelloBonjour or BonjourHello, and then adjust based on how the other person responds.

    11. Seeking Second Childhood*

      This job needs a ticketing system!
      Even if you create it with folders in your email system, This would allow you to take prioritization questions to management. “I received X calls this week, Y emails, and Z walk-in requests. With an average time of A minutes per request, I can only handle B% of that. What are your highest priority items for me to tackle? How do you suggest we handle the items in my overflow?”

  32. Anon for this question*

    This is a multi-level question; sorry for length. For clarity, I am a neurodivergent cis woman.

    The large office of my new job has rooms with locks for nursing mothers to pump, among other things. If the key is not in the lock, the room is in use. They only have two. In a mental health seminar the other day, it was recommended we check out these facilities in our office locations. The receptionist told me where they were.

    Right as I found them, a coworker came out of one. She said, “Do you need the room?” I said no, I was just looking to see where they were. She asked me if I needed to pump. I said no but I was told that we had these amenities for everyone’s use. The coworker told me somewhat sharply that no, these rooms were for nursing mothers to pump and then said, with emphasis, “It’s the LAW.” This threw me, but I said politely that I know about the law, and we were told the wellness rooms were for everyone. She was like, no, and walked away at that point.

    When I told the receptionist, she said firmly that they were not just for moms. She also said there are always two or three nursing moms in the office but there has never been a problem with it. The alternative given was to duck into the shower room and go into a stall. I’m not comfortable with this.

    I do understand why someone could feel defensive about it, especially if there are only two rooms, and they had trouble getting in at some point. I may be off-base, but the subtext I got from the coworker’s attitude is that there’s no problem because the moms make it clear it’s for them. If someone needed it for prayer or an oncoming migraine or something, they’re out of luck.

    I’m struggling to be happy at this job, and although I don’t anticipate needing the amenity, the encounter soured my feelings on being in the office. I don’t appreciate being addressed by a peer as though I’m five. (FYI, the receptionist knows I’m ND; the coworker does not.)

    Has anyone ever run into a conflict with wellness rooms? How did you handle it? If companies are going to have general wellness rooms, should they be separate from pumping rooms? I feel like if you had the space, this would be the best way.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I have seen offices where the nursing rooms were ALSO for other “health” things (e.g. migraine, mental health etc.) and my understanding is generally that nursing parents get priority because the law says they need a private, locked space – but that they can be used for other things as needed when not being used for pumping.

      1. Manders*

        This is correct. But sometimes it is in use when a pumping mom needs to use it and then there is conflict (this happened a lot when my colleague was pumping). But yes, only the pumping mom has a legal standing to the room.

    2. Shan the Librarian*

      I think the first question that needs to be answered is whether the rooms are actually pumping rooms or general wellness rooms. The coworker seems to think they’re pumping rooms; the receptionist seems to think they’re wellness rooms. One of them is wrong, and until you find out which, you’re not going to have a clear answer on the use of the room.

      1. Shan the Librarian*

        (“Wrong” may have been too strong of a word, as pumping rooms tend to be used for other things as well, but there are definitely different understandings of the use of the room.)

      2. No Tribble At All*

        Shan the Librarian is correct. Designated pumping rooms should not be used for anything else. General wellness rooms *can* be used for pumping, but we’ve had horror stories before of people refusing to leave, trying to break in, or otherwise not having the pumping rooms be available. I don’t blame your coworker for snapping at you — from her perspective, you were lurking outside her room for no apparent reason, and then you said the rooms were “amenities” which means a perk, rather than a necessity.

        1. Anon for this question*

          I would not want to take the room from someone who needed to pump. In fact, I told her that too. I don’t blame her for being concerned, but there was no need to be condescending about it. It was a misunderstanding based on what we were told.

      3. goddessoftransitory*

        It does have a whiff of “tell different people different things and let the confusion fog the issue” to it.

    3. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      Since you’re new, I would leave this alone for at least a few weeks, even 1-2 months, and wait to get a sense of whether anyone other than people who are nursing use the wellness rooms. If it’s just nursing moms, this probably isn’t the hill you want to die on, reputationally. There is what’s technically correct (rooms are wellness rooms with legal priority for people who are nursing) and then what’s actually practiced at your company, and most people will judge others on the second one.

      1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

        If you have a real religious or medical need to access to a wellness room for prayer, when a migraine is coming on, etc. – then you can pursue access based on that. I wouldn’t take up this cause based on the hypothetical idea that someone else might need those.

        And look, I agree with you that it would be great to have wellness rooms available. But a lot of offices just don’t. I’ve never worked somewhere that does; I have done all my at-work crying or blowing off steam in parking lots, parks, alleys and bathrooms. It sucks but it’s normal, in my experience, to not have this amenity.

    4. Deit*

      Only expressing milk is legally protected to the extent of having a non-bathroom locking door.

      It sucks that the shower stall is uncomfortable for your needs but yeah, legally, you need to defer to pumping moms for the room if pumping is a stated use for the room and find alternatives. Your company is only legally obligated to let employees pray, they are not obligated to provide a locked private room to pray (to use one of your examples).

      Also I think you need to try and empathize with your coworker. You were lurking around the door while she was shirtless and exposed. Even if you weren’t trying to peep or disrupt her you put that fear into her then when she told you they are pumping rooms you tried to argue that no you were told they were for everyone so I get her being firm TBH. In your shoes I would have been apologetic. “Oh I’m so sorry, So and So just told me they were welness rooms for everyone and that I should go find them.” and the. I would have sought clarify from a 3rd party like HR or my manager.

      1. Saturday*

        OP didn’t “try to argue” she was told they were for everyone – she just explained that’s what she was told, which is true. And characterizing her being there as “lurking” is unkind and unfair. The coworker was a jerk.

        1. No Tribble At All*

          I also used the word “lurking” to describe OP, and as someone who exclusively pumped for a year, I used it because that’s how I would have felt if I’d finished up pumping, opened up the door, and there’d been someone there waiting for me to be done. I wasn’t able to work while pumping (couldn’t fit my laptop into the room :/) so I was very sensitive about how long my pumping breaks took. Yes, the coworker was defensive, but even the concept of having legal protections over needing to pump at work is very new and not always followed de facto. I want to defend Coworker, as I don’t think she was being a jerk.

          A lot of people don’t understand the importance of pumping on a regular schedule (granted, I didn’t either before I started doing it). Producing milk is supply & demand; if you don’t keep up your schedule, you won’t make as much food for your baby. But producing milk also happens at its own pace — it builds up in your boobs until you start leaking, and it’s very uncomfortable while that happens. It’s almost like the sensation of having to go to the bathroom. It can get downright painful, and if you take too long between pumps, you increase your risk for mastitis, which is an infection in the breasts. If your job has a lot of meetings, it can be very hard to schedule your pumping time in during the workday. So, yes, if there’s someone who needs to pump, it is *absolutely critical* for their health and for the health of their infant that the pumping rooms is available on demand, when that person needs it. Also, pumping isn’t a popularized option — I only found out about it because of this website. Many people who pump get pushback about “why do you need so much time” or “why don’t you just switch to formula” which grates after a while (or, why don’t you breastfeed the normal way, from lactation consultants). Finally, pumping is physically exhausting. I needed to eat an extra thousand calories a day to make enough food for my son. Your coworker might have been hangry.

          OP, you didn’t go into what accommodations you expect to need a wellness room for, but you need to consider that those rooms are 100% unavailable when a pumping person needs it. What-about-isms about migraines or prayer rooms aren’t helpful unless you have a specific, actionable need. Other companies use sign-up sheets or a reservation system to balance multiple schedules. If you anticipate needing the room frequently, I encourage you request a formal accomodation from HR so they can start the iterative process to find something that works best for you.

    5. EMP*

      Your coworker is rude but as someone who did it for 6 months, pumping at work, even with dedicated rooms, is really annoying and stressful. If you’re new, you don’t know if that woman who walked out on you spent years fighting for that accommodation or is just sleep deprived from being up all night with a nursing infant, but please give her the benefit of the doubt and just let this go for a while.

    6. WellRed*

      Do you NEED a wellness room? I’m not clear why you would have to duck into a shower stall? I’d let this go for now and see how it plays out. I’ve, admittedly, never worked at a place with wellness rooms.

      1. ThatGirl*

        It sounds like in a seminar, it was recommended that attendees check out their company wellness rooms – presumably for mental health needs such as being overstimulated? I’ve never worked anywhere with shower stalls but it sounds like OP might want a quiet place to decompress sometimes. Which wouldn’t necessarily need to be a wellness/pumping room, but I can see the appeal of the privacy.

    7. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I suggest you check with your own manager and if the rooms are for wellness not just pumping, then request she send a group/dept EMail stating that the rooms are for wellness, with pumping having priority – maybe a list with times that can reserved for pumping?

    8. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I disagree with having to suck it up and wait just because the OP is new:
      she has a need now, which may be accute as she is ND. She should ask her manager now if she has the right to access to these rooms, so that if not she request an accommodation, which can take time, or make other plans.

    9. Anon for this question*

      Thanks for your comments, everyone. I’m well aware of the law and have always supported it fully. It was upsetting and somewhat triggering to be scolded rather than informed, but I can understand her point of view. (Btw, I was not “lurking,” I had only just arrived in the hall when the coworker came out.)

      The seminar was on Teams. They told us, we have these places if you need them. The shower room is for people who bike to work. The company has multiple locations and I have no idea what other offices do.

      I don’t want to ask for an accommodation for this. Clearly they told us something that is not objectively true, so as far as I’m concerned, the rooms don’t exist. In our location, it is difficult to get outside, but if I have to, I can do that since the weather is getting warmer now.

  33. DepressedFed*

    This is weird (and not nearly the most important thing going on), but I work in DC and my agency had a pretty casual dress code until the transition. Now, I’m super wary of any unknown people in suits in our building (and on the streets) even though I know a lot of people (including some of those I work with) have changed their dress code to match/adapt.

    It’s connected to how, overall, there’s a huge sense of distrust with anyone you didn’t already know.

    It’s exhausting.

    (Reposted after accidental nesting)

    1. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      I think it is a reasonable thing for your brain to be more on the alert, given the breaches of normality and the law happening in workplaces, and that many people are in denial about this and are dismissive of what’s happening.
      It might help to write down some behavioural plans for yourself eg
      If I see anyone carrying a chainsaw in the building I will grab my bag and leave via the fire escape immediately; … I will/won’t stop to set off the fire alarm…
      If I am stopped by someone I don’t know and they ask me something which seems odd, I will tell them where the manager is… if they say thanks and go, good. If they act oddly or say odd things (eg talking about Project 2025) I will feign an urgent toilet break and grab my bag and leave the building … etc
      In other words, work out what you would do in response to various threats. Think about whether you feel distrustful of women as well as men, of really old people versus bouncy teenagers shouting about draining the swamp, and so on.
      Your gut is alerting you with feelings of unease- now you use your brain to scrutinise what has triggered that and whether it needs a response from you.
      Choose a nearby place you would go to if you did leave the building, like a cafe, where you can sit and have a cup of tea and feel safe.
      So don’t dismiss your heightened feelings, but work out (like a good scout) what you would do in various scenarios, and remember the normal stuff too- a snack bar and some water in your bag, couple of bandaids, phone battery charger etc. Some cash. Ordinary stuff for everyday convenience. And a couple of barley sugars or other lollies.
      There’s a big increase in anxiety happening globally- it’s not just you! Practice calming techniques like box breathing (breathe in for the count of four, hold for 4, breathe out for 4, hold for 4) to help you feel more in control.
      The book The Gift of Fear has strategies for working out who/what is potentially risky, if you want to read about it more.
      Be alert but have practical, actual strategies re safety – that’s a very normal thing to do! Best wishes to you from Australia

    2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Do you have a clear requirement for ID badges to be in sight? Would it help at all to think to yourself that of course you need to scrutinize people to look for their badges? Versus “I’m looking at this person because they might be here to do something nefarious”. So yes, it’s a form of distrust, but tied to something that’s part of the work routine, which is to wear your badge in a visible location.

      I work in a state agency and we’re required to wear our badges in plain sight when we’re in our building. I don’t necessarily recognize all coworkers and our building is pretty empty so it can be unnerving to walk toward someone I don’t know, wondering if they’re supposed to be there while I’m in an otherwise empty hallway. It’s not the same level of distrust you naturally feel at this horrible time and it’s for different reasons around personal security.

      I tell myself my job is to be part of our security system–that’s in our training. I’m not supposed to hold the door open for someone to come in a secure entrance if they don’t have their own badge. It’s not about them, it’s about consistency in our regulations.

      I don’t know that it helps. All the empathy for you.

  34. Procedure Publisher*

    I have a contract that goes until May. The biggest accomplishment is that I learned this team’s process very quickly and started doing over 50% of the volume of work we get in. Only two other colleagues besides me does this work as their primary duty.

    Because this contract has an end date, I want to update my resume but I don’t know how to best express this accomplishment in a way that highlights how I learn things quickly.

    1. Butt in Seat*

      -Within 2 months of beginning role, learned X,Y, and Z processes and successfully assumed responsibility for 50% of incoming tasks in these areas

      If you were brought on to cover a gap (like a maternity leave, or something like that) you can add , “ensuring smooth department function during a coworker’s leave” or similar.

  35. Heffalump*

    Some years ago, I took a night class, and one night there was a guest speaker, a woman from our state Department of Employment Security. She said they often saw the following situation:

    A person goes to work for a sole proprietor business owned by an older man. That person is the first employee the employer has ever hired. At some point in the next few days, the employer becomes totally frustrated and cries out, “You’re fired, never darken my door again, etc.!” The employee applies for unemployment insurance and has no idea why they were fired.

    I thought this was interesting. A few years later I was taking a community college course on workplace communication, and I told this story. The instructor said, “Bingo!”

    Has anyone ever been in this situation, as the employer or employee? What was your takeaway, if any?

      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        I think this is the main sentence: “The employee applies for unemployment insurance and has no idea why they were fired”

        As opposed to bigger companies which usually require loads of paperwork and a file in order to fire someone (IME USA is “employment at will” in name only, most places rarely fire people)

        1. ThatGirl*

          Maybe, but it still doesn’t make much sense. Why did the instructor say “Bingo!”?

          1. Busy Middle Manager*

            I think “bingo” = “yes! Most small businesses have horrible or non-existent HR policies!”

            I think we’re all too thrown off at the “never darken my door again” but also why “small companies tend not to have HR” was seen as such a deep point at the original workshop:-)

      1. ThatGirl*

        yeah it feels like there’s something missing or this is the “man found dead in an empty room with a puddle of water on the floor” type question.

      2. Qwerty*

        It’s a story that has been making the rounds on LinkedIn. Replace the third paragraph with self-promotion so that you hire the poster as a consultant / vendor / recruiter.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I don’t exactly follow your example, but if the question is “have you ever been fired without being told why,” yes, I was once let go three weeks into a new job (internal promotion at a company where I’d already been working for almost a year prior) and when I asked why, the answer they gave me was “if we told you why you wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment anymore.” (Then they contested my UI anyway, but were overruled when I shared that exchange with the UI investigator, so I did end up getting UI.)

    5. pally*

      I watched this in action once.

      The CFO fired the clerk she’d hired a few weeks prior. Told her she was fired right over the phone, as the clerk had called in to say her child was ill and she couldn’t come into work. There was no one to watch the child for her. I don’t think this was the first time the clerk called in sick.

      You could hear the clerk’s reaction-“WHATTT???? I need this job!!”

      That’s when I realized how powerful -and vindictive- employers can be.

  36. Asking For A Friend*

    I just had a friend visit me and we talked about a sticky work situation that I’d love to hear your advice on. She works at a non-profit educational org. She was hired a couple years ago to take on a role that combines an administrative role with some active programming (had previously been in directly providing the programs but wanted to move into a higher/admin role). The person who hired her (Jane) stepped back from the Director role and is now a board member, and a new Director (Fergus) came on board. This new director has several problems: 1) last summer he hired someone else to take on the exact administrative position that my friend was supposed to be in, and he’s effectively demoting her to just programming again but without saying so in so many words; 2) he’s insulting to employees, especially women (he told my friend that she is “annoying” and wouldn’t listen to her input on how the programming should be scaffolded for near-term growth)…my friend knows at least three other women he has insulted, one of whom actually quit because of his treatment of her.

    Our discussion was about who she should talk to about this. Should she go to Fergus first, and ask him to give her clarity about her role and her future in administration? Or should she go to Jane, her friend on the Board, and explain how Fergus is treating the staff?

    1. MsM*

      I mean, what your friend really needs to do is find a new job and feel free to be candid if asked why. But if she’s okay with potentially burning bridges without anything else lined up yet, she should see if she can get the other women to make statements and take this to the board collectively as a formal complaint.

    2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Why not both? She can have the conversation with Fergus about her position and its responsibilities. Better if she has already started job hunting and lining up options.

      Separately, if all the women he’s insulted will put it in writing and go together, they can go to the board with concerns since they don’t have anywhere else to take them. (I’m assuming there’s no HR or you would have mentioned that as an option.)

      Alison often shares good scripts about the specific words to use in that kind of conversation about someone’s actions exposing the organization to potential legal liability. That’s a concern the board should care about. I don’t have the exact wording. It can’t come across as “we don’t like Fergus”. It needs to be “Fergus is regularly treating women on the staff differently than men. Here are the examples. We’re concerned about retaliation if we speak to him directly about his behavior or if he knows who came to you with these concerns.”

  37. FricketyFrack*

    This is kind of a vent, half personal, half professional. Can someone who isn’t me please explain to my mother why I cannot move to Costa Rica with her when she retires – rhetorical, but also if someone wanted to, I might actually give you her phone number at this point because we’ve had this argument several times now. She’s convinced that I should just be able to drop my career and go because her retirement income would be enough for us to comfortably live on. You know, until she eventually dies because she’s not actually immortal.

    I’ve explained to her that A) I *like* what I do and the odds of finding local government work in a country I’m not from are basically zero, B) I speak conversational Spanish, but I’m far from fluent, and C) even if I did get a job there after establishing permanent residency (which takes years), the salary would likely be in the sub-$20k USD range. Meaning I wouldn’t be able to afford to travel, to retire, or to ever move back to the US if I ever wanted to.

    I get it, a lot of people are looking at routes out of the US right now, and I’m queer and take meds for anxiety so I’m not NOT nervous, but I can’t seem to get through to her that getting a job in another country isn’t as easy as just showing up and asking. I made the mistake of going into public service and that’s not on any country’s hard to fill job list.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      How about, “I’ll come visit you, but I prefer to build my life here”? She may be very annoying, but unless you’re under 18, she can’t force you to move. Sounds like explaining just makes things worse, so try not explaining.

      1. FricketyFrack*

        Ha, I’m 40, so she definitely can’t make me do anything. It’s hard though, because it’s just the two of us now that my dad and sister died and the rest of our family sucks. I’d love to go with her if it was remotely feasible and she knows that. I think she’s also afraid for me, so she keeps pushing. I get it, I just also know it would pretty much destroy the career I’ve spent almost 20 years building and that’s not a sacrifice I’m willing to make, at least not yet.

    2. Aneurin*

      Can you stop *explaining*, and *tell* her “you keep asking this, and my answer isn’t going to change: this isn’t going to happen”?

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Exactly. By sharing your reasoning, you are opening the discussion up for her to continue to believe it is a negotiation. Just state, no I will not be moving to Costa Rica with you but look forward to visiting.

    3. Mid*

      “Hi Mom, I am not moving to Costa Rica with you and the discussion is over. Please stop bringing it up, or Costa Rica will be on the “no talk” list. I would love to talk to you about how excited you are for your move though! Do you think you’ll visit the cloud forests first or the volcano?”

    4. Indolent Libertine*

      As Captain Awkward is fond of saying, “Reasons are for reasonable people.” The issue is *not* that your mom doesn’t understand your reasoning and you just have to find the magical sequence of words that totally exists which will cause her to understand; the issue is that she doesn’t like your decision and wants you to come with her, and she thinks all she has to do is to keep parrying your reasons until you have none left and therefore have no choice but to come along. As several others have said, you have to stop discussing this or offering specific “can’t do it because X” replies. You’re going to have to say “Mom, I love you, and I’ll come visit you, but I am not moving with you, period, and I will not discuss this with you any further.” And then you have to start cheerfully and calmly hanging up the phone or leaving the room every time she tries to ignore your boundary.

      1. FricketyFrack*

        That’s true. I think I’ve been falling into the trap of, “Well, her reasons for wanting me to go aren’t bad or wrong, they just don’t align with my goals,” so I keep trying to get her to agree with me. I just need to be firm in that it’s not happening and I’m not going to keep talking about it because all it does is make me anxious and sad.

        1. Still Using How to Talk so Kids will Listen*

          There’s a parenting strategy I learned that also works with adults – talk about the fantasy that would make everyone happy. “I wish someone would invented a matter transporter so I could visit you every day after work!” or “I wish my whole city with my job could be floated down to Costa Rica and anchored off the shore.” It doesn’t matter if it’s nonsense, it’s to show that you value the feelings behind their impractical wish.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          Basically this. This isn’t a right/wrong dichotomy. Just two different choices, both right for the person making the choice.

    5. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      “I like my life and job here, but it’s a comfort to know that you’ll have room for me in Costa Rica if I need to move.”

    6. Artemesia*

      the reason you need is ‘I don’t want to do that.’ There is no point in discussing this endlessly. ‘Mom, I am not ready to retire and am going to keep doing my job’; I hope I’ll be able to visit you on vacation in Costa Rica as it sounds like a great place.’ You don’t need to convince her your reasons are good; there is no percentage in that; you only need to let her know you aren’t doing it.

    7. LaminarFlow*

      Stop seriously responding to your mom’s suggestions on how or where you live your life. When she starts up with these things, try giving a ridiculous answer like “Well mom, I would do that, but I want to move to Mars! Have fun in Costa Rica!” or just laugh and change the subject.

      Consider creating some emotional and physical distance between yourself and your mom. Adults don’t justify their life choices to anyone, especially more than once.

      1. FricketyFrack*

        Oh I do want to be clear – we have an amazing relationship, and she’s not the kind of parent that I would need to distance myself from. This is more of a situation of her thinking way too highly of me – it’s like she can’t fathom that, while I’m good at what I do, it’s just not the type of thing that would warrant a work visa. She really believes that my Spanish is better than it is and that employers would be crazy not to hire me, and failing that, that there’s no reason I shouldn’t just live off her money. The reality just doesn’t match up, unfortunately.

        1. Ginger Baker*

          Oh, in that case, I would go with something like “Mom, I love that you think so highly of me and my work skills! My biggest cheerleader, love it! I hate to burst your bubble but companies in Costa Rica just aren’t going to see me through your perspective – I’ve been doing this over 20 years, I promise, I know this industry/market and my options in it. :-) Love you tho and I can’t wait to visit!”

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          Heh, my mom was like that, a bit. She would get it in her head that I was “brilliant” at languages and not understand that no, I’m sufficiently proficient in English. That doesn’t mean I will learn Spanish or French in a week.

          My favorite insistence of hers was that I could make a living modeling little clay animals and selling them from a fold out table in malls. That…was not happening.

    8. Mariana Twonch*

      Your efforts to get her to see things your way are futile. Going forward, just stop discussing it with her. “Asked and answered” is a good response to someone who keeps rehashing the same point while not listening to your reasoning.

    9. Generic Name*

      Well, your mom doesn’t have to understand and agree with your decision. How about instead of trying to convince her to agree with you you said, “Aw, I’ll sure miss you, but I’m really looking forward to visiting!”?

    11. Brevity*

      “But I just don’t underSTAND why you can’t go with me!”
      “You don’t need to understand it. You need to accept it.”

    12. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Also, she likes you, and would no doubt enjoy the two of you looking for a nice place, getting connected to the local community etc. It would be more enjoyable and less nerve wracking to do it together! If she genuinely plans to go, are there ways she could start making new community connections now? Online groups etc?
      Thing is, you are her daughter – not her contemporary. I think slippage happens in mother-daughter relationships, so that your similarities become more relevant than your differences. So the fact that she is retiring whereas you may anticipate 25 more years at work etc isn’t a meaningful thing for her. Years ago my mum used to encourage me to go to her hairdresser because she liked her hairdresser (who was, true, very good at ‘old lady perms’), and would forget that I wasn’t an old lady and our interests were not the same…

    13. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Are you willing to help here think through what it takes for her to move there? Maybe part of the “please come with me!” is anxiety over just how much is involved in moving to another country and fear of being alone there.

      If you have the bandwidth to say, “Not moving with you, Mom, but I’m happy to help you in figuring out what it looks like for you to move and what will help you settle in once you’re there” then she can feel like you’re part of it. She can express her fears and you can point her toward things she can do to address some of those (not you doing it for her, but coaching). I’m thinking of things like researching the Costa Rican equivalents of the Welcome Wagon if there is such a thing, senior centers, classes she could take to meet people, where she’d buy groceries if she knows which town she wants to live in, how she’d go about finding a doctor and dentist, how she would contact the US embassy for assistance if need be, even just spending time on Google Maps looking at places to build familiarity.

      There’s so much involved in moving and it’s daunting even within the same country. Her internal thought train may be chugging along on the unspoken assumption that if you moved with her she could count on you to take care of all of that so for her it would be like showing up for an extended vacation. Once she thinks through everything about moving there without you it’s a different scenario. By continuing to pressure you to go with her she’s avoiding dealing with that.

    14. goddessoftransitory*

      What is she expecting you to live on/do for a job after she passes? Unless you’re a Rockefeller or similar this is unrealistic, to say the least.

      I assume she wants to move to Costa Rica because she’s going to get a lot of bang for her buck standard of living wise, which is fine, but that’s a totally different life plan than for a much younger person who is early or mid career!

  38. JustaTech*

    I’ve got a story I just need to share about the right things getting done, but the wrong way/ for the wrong reasons.

    My site has had a contract, part time IT guy (George) for the past few years. This is because, even though we are reasonably computer savvy and we have remote support, some times you just need someone with a admin password to install specialty software, or have the time to spend 3 hours troubleshooting the conference room computer.
    George is an older guy who is simultaneously not good at his job (at all) and has boundary issues. For some people (me) this is just way too much talking about persona stuff (“do you have any Danish ancestry? Because my aunt has the same name as you and we’re Danish”), but for a *lot* of people it is standing way, way, way too close.

    I reported George to his manager (at another location) for a pretty egregious security breach a couple of years ago, but as far as I could tell nothing came of it.
    Many people on my team tried to have George fix a computer problem for them or with them only for George to just throw up his hands and say it couldn’t be fixed (it almost always could).
    So we try to avoid calling on George, but some times he has to install stuff on our computers.
    The last time he did that he went from standing way too close to patting a (female) coworker on the back and waist. That was beyond the pale, so she reported him to HR around lunch time. Before the end of the day his contract was terminated.
    Later we heard that our site head had been trying to get him fired for months for incompetence.

    So, like, I’m glad George is gone because he was useless and a creep. But I’m 1) frustrated that it took an HR situation to get his contract terminated when there were *ample* performance issues and 2) it feels weird that HR (who also isn’t on site) would can him so quickly over a single complaint.
    (The coworker who filed the complaint was told that if George had been an FTE then there would have been an investigation, but as a contractor, nope.)

    I should just say good riddance and let it go, right? And chalk this up to yet another example of our rubbish management?

    1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

      Ew. I’d also be peeved, to say the least. I’m sure your coworker isn’t thrilled that he was kept on long enough to touch her inappropriately instead of being fired when he should have.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Exactly. Why are companies asking employees to be the sacrificial lamb on the altar of ‘Okay, NOW we can fire him?’

    2. Mrs Kung Pao*

      Do you think it’s possible that other people had put in complaints and that was the last straw? Good riddance either way!

      1. JustaTech*

        This was my thought and something I discussed with a different coworker and also my spouse.
        Other coworker and I weren’t aware of anyone else on our floor reporting George as too close/touching (there are less than 20 of us so we would have heard), but figured it was possible that the folks upstairs might have had problems.

        My spouse thought it was more likely that for whatever reason George’s manager was not dealing with the performance issues (very common at my company) and so when HR was contacted felt like this was a “get out of managing free” card.

  39. City Planner*

    I started a new job managing a 20-person department that is split into two teams. Something that I am finding irritating is that the seating arrangement for the two teams makes no logical sense. My boss has confirmed that over the past few years, new staff were just shuffled into open desks without considering what team they were on. I would like to have the junior staff seated more closely to their supervisor, because I think they would benefit from being in closer proximity to a mentor. Accomplishing this would require moving at least half of the department to new desks and I have a lot of people who have clearly settled into their space — plants, wall art, knick knacks, specialized monitor arrangements. I’m feeling very sensitive about the relationship impact of doing this — it’s a very clique-y department and I’m still a little bit of an outsider. Aside from talking to the team leads, what else should I do or consider in deciding whether/how to shuffle desk assignments? Anyone have any change management suggestions? I’m coming from an organization where it was common for teams to move to new desks (or entirely new floors/buildings) as departments grew or business needs changed and that’s clearly not the culture here.

    1. PX*

      Not sure how new the job is, but from a change management perspective you can go one of two ways: make the change immediately and accept the consequences (aka it might set your reputation for better or worse as the person who came in and shook things up and people might always resent you for it and you will always be an outsider “imposing” things on them) or wait a couple of months and see if you can find ways to ease into it (aka a natural change of someone leaving or some other logical excuse comes up where you can gradually move people slowly together).

      Alternatively, just ask them how they feel and maybe you’ll find enough people are open to it that it isnt quite the challenge you expect.

    2. Mid*

      I would give people reasonable notice (two weeks max, so they have time to prepare and gripe a bit but not so much time it feels looming and has time to get bigger than it needs to be) and a clear reason why the change is happening (which you have! People aren’t sitting near their teams and desks have been randomly assigned for a while), and then let them pout about it a little bit. But it’s a good reason to have people move! Make sure you’re open to listening for legitimate reasons to oppose the move (are all desks the same? Are accommodations being kept? Is there even lighting around the space? Are bathrooms close to every desk? Are some desks below an air vent making them colder/warmer?) and finding reasonable solutions. It might be best to frame it as “Desks 1-10 are going to be for team A, desks 11-20 are for team B, how would the teams like to arrange themselves within those desks?” (Also, let people keep their office chairs, that seems to make moving desks less painful, sometimes literally!) Don’t go into it with the mindset of “this is a big horrible change” but rather “this is mildly inconvenient but makes a lot of sense for everyone so we’re all going to do it and it’s no big deal.”

      If you can arrange it, maybe have office moving day be a half day of everyone helping to move (assuming this is just moving small things like plants and pictures and not heavy equipment, if furniture needs to be moved, have professionals do that) and then lunch for everyone. It could also be framed as a good day for everyone to clean their offices out and declutter. Have larger recycling bins available and shredding bins as well. Have a compilation of Marie Kondo clips playing in the conference room maybe? Fun music? If that would fit the vibe of the office that is. I think free lunch is pretty mandatory though, and goes a long way to soothing people when they’re being inconvenienced.

    3. Rick Tq*

      Don’t rock the boat, and don’t move everyone without more justification than *you* don’t like it.

      You might be able to consolidate things the way you discussed over the course of years, doing it in one swell foop without their support will make you an enemy to be tolerated, not a manager to be supported.

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      You’re going to get a lot of pushback and burn a lot of goodwill. I’d be cautious about it.

      Making it voluntary would be a pain but is one option (“we’re going to rearrange some seats so Team A and team B are clustered better, if you are interested in moving let person A know, they’ll be releasing the updated floorplan”)

      Focusing on just having good conference room or other meeting space for team A and team B to meet might be a work around. Doesn’t matter if you sit team A member by team B member as long as they have places they can go discuss with other team A members as needed. How much interaction do they need?

      I feel like I slack message people in the same row as me more than we verbally talk anyway…. You could promote mentoring in other ways rather than proximity too.

    6. Laggy Lu*

      I am not sure it’s inherently true that more junior people need to be closer to their manager. If anything, they need to be around their more experiences peers doing the same types of work. Also, there may be good reason for more senior people to be closer together.
      I would wait and take note of how people are currently working together, and see what can be improved. I wouldn’t move forward with blanket changes that may not have the affect you are looking for.

      1. Clisby*

        Agreed. I can see not having all the inexperienced people clustered together, but I can’t see the value in having them so close to their managers. Being close to their peers is a lot more valuable.

    7. LaminarFlow*

      People can be territorial about their workspace. If you are planning to tell the teams about the seating changes, and give them the date of the move, you will likely get pushback/negativity.

      But, if you bring this topic up in a team meeting, and solicit feedback from a place of “How can we change the seating arrangement to fit both team’s needs?” you will get more buy-in from folks. Let the team steer the conversation, and listen to what they have to say. Maybe the current seating arrangement works perfectly for them right now. If that’s the case, leave it as-is for the time being.

      If you start seeing things that would be improved by a seating arrangement change, bring the topic up again, and have your data points ready to share with the team that support the “why” behind the move.

      Overall, this is an opportunity to show your new team that you want to work collaboratively with them on things, and they can trust you to listen to them.

    8. JustaTech*

      Make sure you’ve been there long enough to literally read the room and understand the flow of people, but also how people interact within and among teams.

      One time my floor was being reshuffled and in the first round of seat assignments I was moved away from the rest of my team to sit next to the one coworker I really didn’t like. (And I was the person on the team *most* willing to work with him!)
      My initial (private) reaction was that I was being exiled from my team with the other unwanted person. I sat on that reaction hard, but also went directly to my boss and said “this will not work”. To which my boss said “who the heck put you over there?!”

      The person who had put me over there was someone who didn’t know anything about any of the teams on that floor, the work we did or how often we needed to talk to people on other teams.

      So if you are going to move people at the very least ask for feedback from the supervisors and managers before you start.

    9. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      It isn’t clear how long you’ve been there but if you’re really new I wouldn’t start with this. It verges on micromanagement.

      *You* would like to have the junior staff sit closer to their supervisor. What do their supervisors think? Those are your direct reports, right? Or someone is. Work within the organizational structure to discuss how the current seating arrangement works and their ideas for what would improve it, if they think it needs to change at all. You really need them on board or else when their direct reports have gripes they’re going to agree rather than address it as something people just need to accept. There also may be benefits you’re not seeing because you’re thinking of the supervisor as their mentor, whereas they’re getting a broader sense of the entire team’s work because they have contact with people from the other team.

      I say this as someone who recently had to tell a direct report who has been in the same desk for two decades that they need to move. They have their own direct reports who will also be moving. All of this was triggered by one of them asking to move into a specific cubicle, which raised the question of consolidating them so everyone will be close to the office I just moved into. (Our spaces are all inside another department and they get to call the shots on which ones we get.) I’m giving my direct report plenty of time to move and asked them to work with their team to figure out who gets which cubicle from the available ones. I don’t need to be the one to decide what works best for their team functioning. They’re adults, they know who they need proximity to, they can work it out.

      Bottom line, don’t assume you’re right about a move being better for everyone, and work with others for more perspective, don’t decide and dictate on this one. It isn’t as if this is about their core functions–it feels more like your opinion.

      Then I’m going to give everyone a houseplant for their desk if they want one because the move takes some of them away from a view of trees and gives them a view of a large cement building that’s probably considered Brutalist architecture. If you *and your team leads* decide the move makes sense, think about how to sweeten the pot a bit. Buy pizza, don’t overload with the everyday tasks when people are being asked to box up and reorganize their entire work setting, maybe have a “housewarming” something for each person. Have they been asking for equipment or supplies and the answer has been no for some weird reason? Can the answer become yes? Not to bribe, but to show your appreciation to them for dealing with the disruption.

  40. PX*

    Welp, it finally happened – I got laid off this week (first time!). I’m in the UK so I’ll get a couple of months payout luckily which has helped the anxiety, but I feel sooooo discombobulated.

    I think its the surprise of it all. I had managed to survive previous rounds so had maybe thought I was safe, but getting the email saying my role was at risk (ie going to be eliminated) was actually a bit of a surprise when it finally came. Not being mentally prepared to hand over stuff and wrap things up has been a much weirder experience than I anticipated.

    I’m torn between getting right on the job hunt hustle (because with how the economy is, it might take ages to find a new role) vs taking some time off because I wasnt in the best place mentally anyway and probably need some time off to just recharge.

    Anyway, no real advice needed – just wanted to scream into the void a little bit (but obvs if anyone has any recommendations for UK recruiters or knows of jobs going in the Business/Strategy Operations space – hit me up!)

    1. Laggy Lu*

      Sorry that happened! I was in a similar boat (but in the US) last July, so I get it. I had survived 2 previous rounds of layoffs, and then didn’t. It took me a while to find a position, and I Am actually on contract now, so not ideal. Hopefully you can decompress, but not wait too long to get into job hunting – just so you don’t miss any opportunities. They seem to be slim these days.

      1. PX*

        Thank you! Glad to hear you’ve found something and definitely hear you on opportunities passing you by, I’ve seen two interesting postings disappear while I’ve been wallowing this week so will definitely need to get more prompt in future

    3. Jules the First*

      Uh, so this is weird, but, um…I might be hiring exactly that kind of role in the UK starting next week…

      1. PX*

        Ooooh. Uh. Not sure what the etiquette for exchanging contacts is on here but I’ll leave my *very* throwaway email address below and if you drop me a line happy to get in touch/share LinkedIn etc: bobina1180 (at) Gmail (dot) com

  41. Thrift Store Manager*

    I hate micromanaging my team. We sell used furniture, and the space is divided up into bays by type (couches in bay 1, dressers and beds in bay 2, etc).

    I recently had to update our opening procedures because a long time employee decided not to turn on the lights in their bay at the start of the shift – making people dropping things off or wanting to buy things think the bay was closed for the first few hours of the day. When called out about it, they just shrugged and said that turning the lights on wasn’t part of the opening checklist. To me, this should have been a disciplinary matter, but our director said it was our oversight for not specifying lights should be turned on as part of our opening procedures, so those needed to be updated and we can’t hold the employee responsible for not knowing to do it.

    In 5 years of supervising shifts here, I’ve never had another employee (or this employee! Who predates me!) think they could leave the lights off when opening for the day. Updating the procedure to say “lights must be on” isn’t even hard… I just despise having to do it, because it feels like I’m treating everyone here like children, rather than calling out the single instance of bad behavior. Am I being unreasonable about this?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You’re not being unreasonable, but I think you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, and probably need to compromise.

      Your employee is being a jerk. And was hungover or something to boot, I would wager.

      Your director is non-confrontational and overly “nice”.

      Your employee manual/opening procedures could say “turn on all the lights in all the bays, as well as the open sign at the front door and blah blah blah.” They could also say “use your head and consider how things look to the public, and act accordingly.”

      If I were you I’d do the first, but I’d also tell the slacker employee in whatever language he’d understand “Not cool, man.”

      If you actually have to write the second thing down, you’ve got a lot more problems than one dude who didn’t turn on some lights.

    2. Strive to Excel*

      I’ll fall on the side of “yes, the opening procedures should be that specific”. I assume, same as you, that the long-time employee was being difficult, but at some point someone new will end up doing the opening checklist. It’s always good to specify things like “turn on the lights – switch is on the northwest wall. They are not automatic”.

      I hear you on the micromanaging. It’s frustrating.

    3. Antilles*

      Your director is being ridiculous given this is a long-time employee. Does your director really think that your employee has been there a half decade and somehow doesn’t know that everybody turns on the lights in the morning? And pointing to “well the checklist didn’t say it” is a ridiculous excuse. In most industries, checklists aren’t really intended to be a 100.00% comprehensive list of every single item, step, and move along the way. You should update the checklist since your director said so, but you’re fair to be annoyed about it.
      I’d certainly start paying closer attention to this employee for a while though because this is so strange to come out of nowhere.

      1. WellRed*

        Yes it’s weird. I personally am fantasizing that OP update the checklist in excruciating detail and then subject the employee to excruciating training on each step m, preferably with PowerPoint slides and some videos that you have to answer questions on before moving onto the next.

      2. goddessoftransitory*

        It’s definitely out of the “well, it doesn’t say dogs CAN’T play basketball” book of jerk-offery.

    5. goddessoftransitory*

      No. If a person really has to be told “turn the light on” they are not ready for adult life, period. It’s pretty clear that this person was doing this for reasons that warranted personal discipline, not treating the entire grown up working force like they’re in kindergarten.

  42. Hotdog not dog*

    I’m feeling a little defeated right now. I know the long term solution is that I need a new job. (I’m looking, but it’s a process.) The issue is that I’ve had this job for just under a year, the previous one about 3, and the one before that 7 months. Prior to 2020, I had a slow but steady climb on the career ladder for about 25 years with the same company. I was unemployed for a good part of 2020 (as many people were) and since I returned to the work force my roles have all been more junior level. I thought my current role would be a step up, but it turns out to be a bait and switch; I’m having all my tasks delegated to me by his admin, and she essentially gives me whatever leftover work she doesn’t want to do herself. Not only am I bored to tears, but I’m not good at admin work. She also tends to give me things that are already overdue by the time she realizes she doesn’t have time to do it herself, so “my” work often appears to be late.
    I’m starting to think maybe I’d be better off starting over altogether in a new industry (I’m currently in financial services). I never graduated from college (ran out of time and money) and have no other work experience. Due to some physical limitations, retail or anything where I’d need to be on my feet for a long period wouldn’t be possible. What industry might be a good fit for a self educated, over 50, primary breadwinner who needs to start over? What I was very good at in my past was keeping track of hundreds of different policies, managing people and processes, and remaining calm in a crisis. I’m exhausted by the thought of starting over at entry level, but the current situation isn’t working.

    1. MsM*

      Do you have any direct project management experience? Sounds like you’d be good at it, and that’s a skill that will serve you well in pretty much any industry.

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        I thought PM sounded like a reasonable alternative also, but I don’t have any formal education or training. Going back for a degree is not in my family’s budget right now. So far all the PM jobs I’ve found require a degree or formal experience.

        1. Fake Cheese*

          What about project coordinator or junior project manager roles as a stepping stone to full project manager?

          Also, I would think that your years of work experience would count towards the “degree or equivalent experience” requirement on a lot of listings

    2. PX*

      How calm in what kind of crisis? Im about to leave a job that was software in financial services and incident management might be of interest (aka managing what happens and being in control when things go wrong). Lots of runbooks, processes and policies to keep track of and often working in a team with some customer contact/comms. You would likely need to be okay with on-call type of work though (aka its not a strict 9-5 type of job).

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        We had all kinds of crises, from market crashes where people were literally panicking, building evacuations due to weather, fire, terrorist threats; threatening behavior from clients and/or employees, medical emergencies, plus the usual “mundane” issues when something just didn’t go as planned. The funny thing is that my mom was an EMT, so I think I picked up part of her tolerance for chaos during my childhood. She used to tell me to be part of the solution or get out of the way, and I kind of absorbed that!

    3. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Look at state government. All agencies have functions that deal with money, accounts, keeping track of policies, people and processes. Similarly, other types of agencies: regional public health, school districts, city or county government, special taxing districts that have staff (like a port district, public utility district). If you can find a few people for informational interviews so much the better.

  43. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

    Higher ed nervous breakdown thread, anyone?

    I’m not grant-funded and have stellar performance reviews, but my university was already facing a fiscal deficit, and just announced hiring freezes and a bunch of other budget freezes. (I know of at least two other peer institutions doing similar freezes, and a former colleague at a different peer institution thinks a 25% budget cut for the 25-26 academic year is the optimistic scenario.) There’s nothing I can do about my job security, but god damn it, this is basically my dream job and I love where I live and I’m really upset and angry and scared, for myself, and for all the research that has been cut off at the knees, all the ways education improves the world.

    1. Alex*

      Same boat here. Higher ed. Institutional hiring freezes in place, likely followed by budget cuts. I have no idea how this is going to affect my job. I have stellar performance reviews, but that only goes so far. This is basically my dream job as well and I’d be devastated to lose it (especially in the face of the recession that is likely on the way!). So I’m just keeping my head down and hoping for the best, because that seems to be all I can do.

      1. Hesmerelda*

        I’m chiming in to express empathy with both of your situations, as I also support research grants and outreach at a private higher education institution. I accepted a new role in October and started in November, coming into a program now highly vulnerable to cuts in the coming year. I was genuinely excited about the opportunity, yet the daily news is crazy-making while trying to move forward as best I can. Hopefully, you can connect with colleagues and care for yourself as we try to guess what may happen next.

    2. Manders*

      Yeah, same. I was supposed to get a promotion the same week as the hiring freeze was announced, so at this point I’m just happy to have a job. I’ve worked with my boss for 25 years, so I know he’ll fight to keep my job over anyone else’s, but it’s not a happy environment. And I’m in infectious disease research, which a certain Cabinet member doesn’t think too highly of, so who knows what funding opportunities will be available in the next few years.

    3. Kelly*

      I think there’s a lot of reasonable anxiety in higher ed now. There’s a lot of uncertainty and worries about the future. It’s not just the federal funding for this current academic year. It’s going to be worse next year when work study funding for students could be at risk.

      My employer is on the list of institutions that could be potentially under investigation for a perceived failure to respond to anti-Semitism. It’s difficult to admit it but there is some validity to the complaints. I know of one person in another department who had a complaint filed against them due to their social media content. I’m not sure what the result was but they haven’t moderated their views much.

      I had stellar performance reviews until I somehow got on the bad side of my supervisor a year and a half ago. I was dealing with some personal and family issues and was trying my best to be present for my job and my family. In retrospect, I should have filed for FMLA paperwork to protect myself but did not. It’s too late now to file a complaint against her for retaliation. I thought at the time that it would just be easier to not fight back and hope that my compliance would satisfy her anger. I did start therapy which did help a lot, including learning how to be more assertive and stand up for myself, set some boundaries, and realize that I don’t have to do more than what I am expected to do. I also realized that it was unlikely that I would ever get any recognition for the exemplary work that I had been doing in the form of merit raises or awards, so I slowly stepped back from taking on more tasks. She finally caught on to that in my last review and I told her that I will do my work and any work assigned to me, but I won’t be making any suggestions or taking initiatives to start projects on my own until I get credit and recognition for them. I listed several examples where a colleague took credit for projects that had been proposed by me and got the positive feedback at my expense. I made a firm rebuttal to her last review, which I think helped.

      I’ve found other hobbies and outlets outside of work to keep busy. I show up, do my job and go home. I don’t work extra hours anymore. It’s better for my mental health.

      Despite all this, I’m feeling secure in my job because my credit thief colleague has managed to annoy her more by filing multiple false complaints, including a totally fake sexual harassment one against her. She’s tried to have him move to another department but it didn’t take due to him putting more effort into resisting than doing his job competently and her own tendency to be annoying towards others. Also, my impression is that it’s been made clear to her by leadership that she has to work with the team she has in place. He’s very chatty and I have to filter what he communicates for accuracy, especially because our supervisor is more cautious in how she communicates in writing with him now due to his false complaints against her. She doesn’t want to give him more documentation that he could use against her in the future.

      I’m more concerned about next fall and any potential reductions in campus student work study funding because we rely a lot of that to fund our student worker budget.

    4. Olive*

      Yup, right there with you. Academia has its issues, but I really enjoy my day-to-day job and would be pretty devastated if I was forced out by vindictive politicians and a society that doesn’t value education. I moved across the country for this job, and I’m quite happy with the life I built for myself in my new city.

      Now, that’s all threatened. My research is stalled because it was on a government grant. No one knows what enrollments will look like next year or if we’ll have enough money to keep functioning. Tensions are high among students, staff, and faculty alike. Things are especially bad among adjuncts and grad students who have already been taken advantage of for far too long.

      Too many people (including relatives) think that my job can replaced with AI, that I’m somehow indoctrinating students, that my research is just a silly hobby, and that I spend all my time engaged in performative protests instead of working. That’s not new, but it’s disheartening when paired with the threat of my whole industry and career path collapsing. :(

    5. LovesHigherEd*

      It just dawned on me that my “safe as houses” admin job. . . might not be.

      I’m trying not to borrow trouble but I’m scared, and I’m the only one keeping my boat afloat. I don’t even think I could rent out enough rooms in my house to make up the difference, in a very housing-tight market. Eeeeeeeee. No clue what else I’d do; I’m old enough to worry that nothing will help.

    6. Pam Adams*

      My state university is doing a voluntary separation thing leave, and you get 6 months pay as severance. Your job will likely not be replaced. Waiting to see what the fallout is-the two people I know of are taking advantage of this to retire, as we have pensions.

      1. bobr*

        This will likely be of little comfort but here in the UK we are entering pretty much an “academic recession”. It’s more to do with money and various political decisions over the years (visa restrictions on international students for one) than a change of administration. Here’s a really fun list of the decimation going on at all our HEIs:

        https://qmucu.org/qmul-transformation/uk-he-shrinking/

  44. TruthWillOut?*

    I am a data analyst just coming back from maternity leave, and I have a new coworker who joined soon after I went on leave, so he has several months’ experience in the role. I’ve caught enough simple mistakes in his work in the last week that I now automatically suspect the validity of any dataset he creates. Do I say something to my manager? Assume she’s on top of it? Offer to review his data with him (culturally appropriate on our team, but not required)? I’m just getting back in to the flow of my own work. I don’t want to overstep, but I hate to see probably-nonsense work barreling towards production.

    1. MsM*

      I think worth checking in with your manager to share what you’ve observed and how it’s impacting you, ask if there is any training/oversight going on to the extent she can share, and maybe offer the one review session without committing to being the one responsible for fixing this.

    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      What kind of errors specifically? I was a Data Analyst for many years and got good at finding things like doubled fields, things in one table but not the other, line items listed separately due to mispelling but they were essentially the same thing, etc.

      People who worked at bigger companies always thought there was someone else checking for this stuff, not realizing they were not that person. Sometimes they need to be told

      1. TruthWillOut?*

        Like counting distinct purchases per item and mistaking them for customer count. Taking averages within unbalanced groups and then taking an unweighted average of the averages. Not understanding why his bar graph with three bars can’t be made into a line graph, and thinking the reason I can’t help him is that I don’t know what a line graph is. Generally not reading column names at all. Re- ordering an x-axis so that it reads [364,22,285,67…] because that way the line goes down across the page!

        1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

          So, not qualified to be an analyst. Good grief, that last one about the x-axis?! I’m not a data analyst but I review and work with a lot of charts involving data and if someone handed me that I’d be asking what on earth they were thinking.

  45. Lurkyloo*

    So I have read the ‘my manager is a micromanager’ and the ‘bait and switch’ stories for years and now….It’s me. Hi, yeah, it’s me. :(
    A while back I mentioned I was a Canadian Fed employee who had to jump ship quickly or get canned for not (being able to) going into the office 3 days a week. I was lucky that I got to move to the provincial government in a role that played to my strengths! Yay! Only…not.
    My boss seems to have decided that I’m actually her EA, instead of me doing, ya know, the things I was brought in to do?
    We met with my grandboss yesterday who named me several times as in ‘Lurkyloo, this is where your strengths are needed’ and ‘this situation is why we brought Lurkyloo in’. My boss called me up immediately after and said ‘but that’s not REALLY why we brought you in’.
    I’m so demoralized and may scream if I have to do one more excel spreadsheet. :'(
    Oh and it’s one big happy family. *gag*

        1. MsM*

          Send an email: “Hey, boss, based on our conversation yesterday, I think there’s still some confusion about exactly what my responsibilities are. Can you put your understanding of what I should be prioritizing in writing? Copying grandboss to make sure we’re all on the same page. Thanks!”

  46. Omelas Employee*

    How do I list a job on my resume that I was temp and contracted by a third party agency for? I was hired to be a temp manager at Teapot Health through recruitment agency TeapotTalent. I am on TeapotTalent’s payroll and registered as their employee. Teapot Health is a really good org and is where I have been working so I want to keep their name visible, but if a future employer looked me up, I wouldn’t show as an employee there.

    How do I write this up on my resume?

    1. Mid*

      I would do
      Temporary Manager for Teapot Health, TeapotTalent
      [dates]
      -accomplishment 1
      -accomplishment 2
      -accomplishment 3

      Or more generally, treat Teapot Health as part of the job title, and TeapotTalent as your employer

      [job title], [company name]
      [dates of employment]

    2. Milton's Red Swingline Stapler*

      I’m an embedded contractor, which it sounds like you are as well. (I get my paycheck from the professional services firm, but all my work is for one company where I have a desk and am essentially a FT employee.) I list is on my resume as:
      Professional Services Firm, embedded contractor to Company
      Company Location, Dates of Employment

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Mine said
      Role – Teapot Health (contracted through Teapot Talent)
      (Dates)
      (Responsibilities/accomplishments)

      I was subsequently hired permanently by Teapot Health and have been there for coming on 11 years with increasing responsibilities, so now that’s one of several roles listed under Teapot Health:
      Current role
      (Dates and responsibilities)
      Previous Roles x3
      (Dates and responsibilities for each)
      Previous Role (contracted through Teapot Talent)
      (Dates and responsibilities)

    4. Contracting101*

      I just include Contract in my title and use the name of the company where I did the work.

  47. Our own chaos employee is leaving!*

    Our chaos employee announced this morning that he’s accepted another job. Well, he actually announced last night on Slack that he had an announcement for us all this morning. And post-announcement, he posted on Slack that he will be holding his farewell celebration next Friday.

    As you can perhaps guess, this guy is totally full of himself, and he has a massively inflated sense of his own abilities. The company he’s going to has no idea what they’re getting – screwing up every deployment he’s done solo, creating new bugs in the code, just generally being clueless.

    It’ll be so great to have him gone. But team management hasn’t exactly helped the situation. They’ve focused so much effort on him (to the detriment of others), that they’ve helped convince him further that he’s the greatest. I’m hoping his leaving means some of that misplaced attention will be redirected.

    2. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Will he be replaced? Are you able to have any input into what they would look for in his replacement? Without criticising their pet, of course!

    3. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Holding his own farewell celebration–is that a clue that maybe he’s not completely oblivious? Afraid that if he left it to everyone else there wouldn’t be one? That’s kind of weird to me.

  48. Kay Tee*

    Have you done any fun activities or games at a company banquet? We’re trying to make our spring party a little more engaging than just dinner/bar and remarks from leadership. We do a raffle to keep people around to hopefully socialize and hang out. Photo booth is always popular too. Some past activities have been hit or miss, like music bingo. I know company parties are inherently a bit dull, but I’d like to do what we can to make it a good and engaging experience!

    1. Mid*

      How many people are attending this, roughly? If it’s not for like 100+ people, maybe something like bowling could work? Or some other activity-based spot instead of a dinner-based spot?

      My friend’s (very large) company does a picnic/carnival thing that’s family friendly, so they have tents for people to eat (and tables, no one is sitting on the ground) and then tents with balloon animals, small carnival games, face painting (mainly for the kids), beer and other beverages. Because things are all in different tents, everyone ends up milling around and chatting with different groups of people throughout the event. There are typically around 250-300 people in attendance.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I’m not sure what music bingo is, but Name That Tune was pretty fun. Our attempt to bring in musical chairs is not something I think anyone should emulate though, especially if there has been drinking. -_-

      Drawing for door prizes usually goes over well.

      1. Kay Tee*

        I think it was essentially “Name that Tune” and mark it off your bingo card. The idea is to collab with people who know different eras/genres lol.

        People do love the door prizes, apparently someone snapped at a committee member when they took too long (literally just the end of dinner) to draw for it last year!

    3. Can't Sit Still*

      A murder mystery dinner can be fun, but with a larger group, you really need to hire professionals to keep everything moving in a timely fashion.

      I’ve been to at least 3 corporate murder mystery dinners and they have always been entertaining, especially when colleagues turn out to have undiscovered talents in melodrama.

    4. City Planner*

      I once worked at an organization that had a really fun banquet every year. Casino games were always a big hit, and then people used the tickets they won to try to win big gift baskets (you put your ticket(s) in the raffle for each gift basket you were interested in). One year they had a comedy improv group come and do an improv show for us with audience participation.

      1. JustaTech*

        I’ve also had good luck with casino games – you hire professionals who teach everyone the basics of blackjack, roulette and craps (quick games that are easy to pick up and mostly luck) and hand out chips that can be exchanged for tickets to the raffle.

        My smaller company has done it twice but I’ve also seen it at really big company parties – you just need more tables.

        (Things like poker can be a bit more hit-or-miss, if you end up with a few folks taking it way too seriously, or who are serious sharks it can be not fun for novices or people who are just trying to have fun.)

  49. MissBliss*

    After 8 months of looking, and 32 days in this particular interview process, I finally received a job offer this morning. It wasn’t what I was looking for salary-wise but they’re considering my counter offer and I expect they will accept. All goes well, I can give notice Monday.

    I know that professional decorum says I should resign at least over a phone call but 1) my boss is the entire reason I am leaving, 2) I had to take a 6 week emergency medical leave due to stress, and 3) former colleagues have given me the heads up that this boss doesn’t give references, ever, so I don’t really feel the need to preserve that relationship in order to be able to use leverage it in the future.

    Am I okay to just send a pleasant, factual resignation email instead of scheduling a call to resign?

    1. Rick Tq*

      An email should be fine. You have your next job now so having (or not having) a reference from BadBoss isn’t an issue.

    2. UpstateDownstate*

      Totally send an email, I’ve done that in the past when I knew I wouldn’t be asking someone for a reference and because scheduling an actual call was difficult due to the time difference.

      Congrats!!!!

    3. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I think it’s OK to email. Make sure they get it! I was in a similar situation and emailed my resignation on a Friday afternoon. I never had a reply from my boss, which wasn’t totally off base, and then Monday he was acting like everything was OK so I did have to ask if he’d received it. He hadn’t read it yet! Made a super awk convo. (We lived across the country from each other and rarely talked on the phone)

    4. Justin*

      I didn’t even hate my last boss but I sent notice via email.

      And the previous job, I told her face to face and she said, “please send an email for documentation.”

      1. allathian*

        Depends. This boss was awful enough that the OP had to take 6 weeks (!) of emergency medical leave because of them. And especially if there are no future references to consider, the boss has forfeited the right to any extra consideration.

        Only schedule the phone call if your finances allow you to say something like “Excuse me, but this isn’t working for me, let’s make today my last day instead.” Obviously don’t do that if it means losing vacation day payouts or something.

        If the boss calls, answer the phone, of course.

    6. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Send an email. Scheduling a call to resign actually feels kind of awful for the boss. If you’re cryptic about the subject when you request the meeting they have no idea what to expect. They might well respond by asking what the meeting is about and there you are. Better to start with it in writing, give them time to process.

      Offer up whatever you can about planning for transition and handoff and say you’ll schedule the meeting to go over that with them before your last day.

  50. Getting Away From Extremes*

    How do you work a “normal” 9-5 job?

    I’ve always worked at toxic dumpster fires where I was completely burnt out, cynical, resentful and angry, or at really great orgs where I was invested in the work, went above and beyond, and derived great satisfaction from the work and relationships with colleagues.

    15 years into my career, now I’m at a place where I have to work just… for the lack of better terms, “normally.” Not completely unengaged (and doing work I’m not proud of), but also not so invested in the work that I de-prioritize Something Else I need to focus on right now.

    I’m realizing I don’t know how to do that. What does working a “normal” job look like? Has anyone here transitioned from these two extremes to “normal” working? How did you do that? And how do you know where the line is between pulling back too much and doing just enough to fulfill my obligations?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Working a “normal” job means giving it a solid effort while you’re at work/during work hours, then signing off/leaving when the day is over and not thinking about it much after that.

      It means don’t work nights or weekends except in rare circumstances; it means take time off without worrying about your workload when you return and without taking a laptop with your or answering calls; it means at the end of the day/week you feel good about the things you accomplished but aren’t fixated on them.

      What are you struggling with, specifically?

      1. Getting Away From Extremes*

        Great question…

        I’m pretty good at leaving work at work, though I have a tendency to stay at work for more than 8 hours a day when I’m invested (working on that!). I don’t work after I close my laptop, or on weekends. The vacation stuff I’m guilty – being a department of one and all.

        A part of what I’m struggling to figure out is how hard I should work while I’m at work. My current work (that I need to pull back from) is really interesting and there’s always more that can be done (I might even say more that I want to do). So I end up running at 120% all day, get completely drained, and have not much energy left by the time I leave work to do much else.

        How do I know what’s enough and fair to the employer?

        1. ThatGirl*

          It’s certainly harder when there’s constantly more you could be doing but you should definitely not run at 120% all the time (which you seem to know).

          I would say either on your own or along with the team you work with, maybe set goals for yourself for the day/week? If you have tangible deliverables, figure out how many of those it’s reasonable to get done over x period of time without stressing yourself out.

          I would also say to purposely build small breaks in while you’re adjusting – take time each hour or two to get some water, use the restroom, grab a quick snack, etc. And be sure to take a proper lunch break every day. These are normal and you shouldn’t be working for 8 hours straight unless it’s truly an extraordinary circumstance.

          1. Getting Away From Extremes*

            These concrete steps are super-helpful – they make me see what “normal” looks like, thank you so much!

    2. Not A Project Manager*

      You sound like a friend of mine who is used to really high stress relationships and now is dating a nice normal guy and sort of feels like there’s not enough drama and it’s almost boring. My first tip is just stay at it and you may adjust to the new lower drama setting! Second, use some of that energy you’re not using on the chaos to do a really great job at the most interesting part of your role. Third, really take notice of the great feeling of being able to leave at five trusting that all is well. Maybe take a class or do something fun for yourself after work so you can reinforce that disconnection. Heads up that some of us are attracted to drama because we don’t want to deal with our own issues and being the “fixer” is a more satisfying role (soo guilty of this).

      1. Getting Away From Extremes*

        Wow, I love this: use some of that energy you’re not using on the chaos to do a rally greet job at the most interesting part of your role.”

        I should also take your advice on scheduling something fun after work. I tried that yesterday (went on a bike ride with hubby), and it was a great way to get out of the rut. Thank you!

    3. Hlao-roo*

      No personal experience with this, but these past posts might help:

      “are you haunted by your last bad job?” from November 3, 2014

      “I don’t know how to get past my toxic job” from August 6, 2020

      “I miss my toxic old job” from September 29, 2020 (1st question on a short answer post)

      I’ll link to these three in a follow-up comment.

      2. Teal Tshirt*

        Thanks for finding and posting relevant links so often, Hlao-roo. It enriches the reading experience. :-)

    4. Dinwar*

      I went from a field-based position with a huge amount of work and constant risks (of the “death and dismemberment” kind), to an office-based role. I feel this in my soul. Here’s how I think about it.

      When you’re in an insane environment you’re constantly put forth 100% or more of your effort, and that becomes what you consider “normal”. Plus, you get used to work being chasing that high where you’re one or two steps in front of disaster and working as hard as you can to avoid it, which, for certain people, is a lot of fun. But it comes at a rather severe cost. Anything above 80% of your operational capacity is dipping into your reserves, meaning that you’re exhausting yourself whether you feel it or not (coping mechanisms are intended to mask this feeling). Realistically anything above 70% is problematic; 80% of operational capacity is when most people think they’ve given everything they can and can’t give any more. If you give 100% for a week or two that’s one thing, but after that it becomes a traumatic experience.

      Going from constantly running in the red to operating at a sustainable pace feels like you’re slacking off. Going from 100% to 80% is a 20% reduction in effort, which is huge! It feels like you’re being lazy. But that’s just your brain lying to you; the reality is, you were experiencing trauma and now are experiencing normal workloads. And like any trauma recovery this will take a while. No one would expect you to straight from breaking both your legs to playing basketball overnight; similarly you can’t expect yourself to go from burnout to normal overnight. Give yourself some grace and accept that this is a process. If you’re still wondering after a couple of years, that may be a problem. But a few months is, really, nothing at all in terms of recovery time.

      Something my boss told me may help. I said I was worried about delegating too much. He said “You’re still working 50 hours a week. When it gets below 35, we’ll talk about how much you delegate.” More generally, as long as you’re meeting your objectives and getting your hours in (if applicable), you’re doing okay. And if you’re really worried about it, you can have a discussion with your manager; this is part of managing people, especially as roles change.

      1. Getting Away From Extremes*

        Oh wow, my work thankfully isn’t anywhere near critical as death and dismemberment, but these numerical targets are really helpful… like I have to be okay with not going at full speed and not producing the same level of results I have, going at 100% or 120%. It does feel lazy! But you’re so right that I’ve been tapping into my reserves, and for too long.

        That it’s a healing process and it’ll take weeks or months to get into the new rhythm/habit is also a helpful perspective! Thank you so much for helping me see my struggle from a new angle.

  51. Mrs Kung Pao*

    Not really for me but for my spouse – is this as off base as I think it is?

    Husband’s boss continually sees 2 industry standards as an attempt to undermine him: email signature and out of office message. Email signature has the standard sign off, including his work title, which is different than boss’s. His boss is well tenured, and my husband has only been there 1.5 years, so people don’t know who he is. Boss continued to make this a big deal, so husband began removing the signature when he emailed boss directly, but leaves it on when he is emailing others and boss is CCed, so boss is aware it’s still there outward facing, and blew his lid on this. For the out of office message, it just said the standard ‘I am out, please contact [boss]’ phrase. My husband and his boss are the only 2 in the department, and it is a role where they field a lot of public inquiries. Boss claims that’s an attempt by husband to make it look like husband is the boss…… I don’t understand how one even gets to this train of thought. This is bananas, yeah?

      1. Mrs Kung Pao*

        No – that was spouse’s ask each time. Did not receive one. Boss is clearly very sensitive about people thinking my spouse is the boss, as it comes up in many ridiculous ways. Their offices are across from each other, and boss frequently has his light off, so ppl go to my spouse to ask a question. Boss thinks it’s because spouse is undermining him – spouse thinks it’s because he is the one with his light on lol.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          This guy needs help but not the kind your husband can give him. Unless he wants to turn into an unpaid therapist he should start looking for another job.

    2. Alex*

      Yes. Everywhere I’ve worked I’ve been *required* to have both of those things. And I’ve never even been a manager.

      But I don’t think either is a hill to die on. I’d stop if told to.

    3. Strive to Excel*

      This is bananas.

      For the OOF message, could he change it to say “please contact my manager, [Boss]”?

      For signature… could he take the title off? Or add a “Manager: [Boss]” line? Is there a corporate signoff template they should be using he can refer to?

    4. Dinwar*

      I would push back on the email signature, especially if I were new.

      Email signatures are a thing for a reason. If I’m looking for a way to contact you, that email signature is worth gold–it has everything I need, in a system I’m already working in! I don’t have to hunt around in a dozen different locations! I cannot tell you how often this has come up in my career, or how frustrated I get when that signature is not there.

      For my part, I STRONGLY encourage those working on my teams to have a company-standard email signature for this reason.

      And why gripe about it? It’s one of those things that if you don’t need it, you can just ignore. A colleague that I’ve worked with for ages sent me an email with a signature today, but my eyes literally skipped over it–it never registered except as “Stuff is here, not important, moving on”. It doesn’t cost anything, or detract/distract from anything, and including it has real tangible benefits (time is money!). Your husband’s boss is just being weird.

    5. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I mean, he CAN set his OOO to “I will be out April 10-17. If you need teapot information or services during that time, please contact my supervisor, Slimy McMicromanager, at …”

    6. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Yes, bananas.

      However, I do think it’s also pretty standard not to include your entire signature block when replying to colleagues, period. In Outlook I have two signatures and could create even more. I use the full block for replies to external people who would need all the info, a shorter one for in-house or people who already know me, just my first name for people I interact with all the time (unless I’m in a hurry and don’t change the one that I’ve told Outlook is the default for replies).

      I’m wondering if he could add to the external one (and having one of those is absolutely 1,000% professional standard practice) with a bit of overkill:
      Kung Pao
      Manager of XYZ
      Division ABC, headed by Insecure BossyPants
      Company QPR

      That is, directly name his boss in his own signature block. This also starts to tee up the OOO, which would have similar wording as others have suggested (“I’m out so contact my supervisor Insecure BossyPants”).

      This is really sad. He might want to add a heaping dose of sympathy for someone who’s so uncertain about his own value and standing. If he can think of it as “Insecure BossyPants has a need for validation that I don’t have. I’m lucky that way. I can give him the frosting and sprinkles so he’s easier to work with, and that’s better for me.”

      It sounds as if the signature block and OOO reactions are part of a larger pattern. Without being deliberately less competent, are there opportunities to give Insecure the spotlight in conversations every so often? “I think ABC. I’d like to know what Insecure would say too.” Or in an email reply, “Insecure, what would you add? What have I missed?” In other words, do share his own expertise and also invite Insecure directly to add theirs. Since the boss does have far more experience he should have additional insight. By asking for it your husband is signaling “I know I don’t know everything. You’re the boss, you’re expected to know more.”

      This also models for Insecure that it’s in fact possible to know a lot and yet not know everything, and that asking others to add their knowledge without letting your own ego get in the way leads to better-informed discussions and decisions.

  52. Justin*

    Those of you who’ve used an LMS and worked on the back end, what would be the most useful metrics to show growth?

    I track the total number of accounts but that’s not really a high bar – all my colleagues have accounts and any new student/participant gets one too.

    I’ll also be tracking unique logins (from various groups) so we knew how often it’s being used.

    Our company tracks “hours” for some of the other sort of individual coaching we provide, which is separate from this. But “hours” on the LMS doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t have a clue if you opened it and then walked away for 3 hours, each time you click, it logs it separately.

    We can track hours for tests/activities. But just using the site is what I mean.

    Any ideas, both in terms of the “hours” thing or anything else that would show its growth over time?

    1. Shutterdoula*

      Course completions (or activity completions)
      Ideally your LMS content will be set up with things that are somewhat interactive and that can give you trackable data in SCORM or xAPI.
      But if your LMS just has links to YouTube or something, there’s not much you can track.

      1. Justin*

        Yes, we can do the completions thing. We just don’t have THAT many classes yet, so I’m trying to think of other things as well.

    2. Teal Tshirt*

      If your performance will be measured by whatever stats you choose, make sure they are something you can influence.

  53. Can't Sit Still*

    Mini-rant:
    Why do vendors assume an early delivery is ok? Or give a delivery time or window and then disregard it? My company can’t be the only one with dedicated receiving times that needs advance notice if it’s going to be outside of that window to ensure someone is there to, you know, receive the delivery?

    I’d rather hear, “It will be delivered sometime tomorrow” than “It should arrive between 11 am – 1 pm,” but then show up at 9:45 am. The vendor is close by, so I assumed their delivery window was accurate.

    This is also made worse by the fact that there has been a GPS “update” recently that sends drivers to a literal dead end, so I have to provide written directions and a map like it’s 1995.

    1. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I hear you – the amount of times I have had to reschedule a delivery that was given a time window of 9-2 and showed up at 8:56 and then marked as undeliverable is too many times.

    2. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I once scheduled a furniture delivery for 1-4 PM on a Saturday. My husband was out of town and I was on call. I got up at 5:00 AM and went to the hospital, finished my work, and turned down my street at 11:30 AM – to see the delivery van pulling out of my driveway and pulling away. This was the early 1990s so I didn’t have a cellphone and neither did they.

      I called the store and as calmly as I could (which was not that calmly – I’d been up since 5:00 AM and hadn’t eaten anything) explained what had happened and made it clear I expected them to sent the truck back. They said the drivers were independent contractors and the delivery window was “just an estimate” so they didn’t think they could do that. They then made the mistake of mentioning that the truck had just returned to the store.

      They sent the truck back to me. I did not tip the delivery crew (which I usually do).

      1. Lily C*

        We had an ongoing struggle to get someone to come out and look at our broken washing machine about 15 years ago. Several service windows came and went, meaning one of us had taken time off work to sit around waiting for someone who never showed, and when we finally got a weekend appointment, the guy showed up super early, an hour and half before when we’d been told to expect anyone, while we were still in bed. The guy decided that our request for him to wait 10 minutes while we put proper clothes on was a refusal of service and left.

    3. Kay*

      If you find out an answer to this please do share. The amount of times this happens is maddening. Especially if it is something like say… toilet paper… normally delivered in 1 week but they say it will be 3 weeks this time. Instead of risking running out of toilet paper we pay extra to have a small amount of toilet paper delivered from another supplier – only to be told 6 days after the original order that the toilet paper will be delivered on day 7. Aargh.

    4. Rex Libris*

      If Amazon tells us one more time that we need to update our business hours in our account settings because they delivered wildly outside the stated hours and (gasp) we were closed, I will scream.

      1. Saving PDFs Not Lives*

        This happens at my job all the time and it also makes me want to scream. Yes, if you show up after our building shuts down the freight elevator, they in fact will not let you up to our suite! It’s like those hours are actually read by no one!

    5. Le le lemon*

      In my org/industry, if you ignored a delivery timeslot, you’d get rejected entry at warehouse. Full stop. Hello futile transport charge.

    6. JustaTech*

      We are usually dealing with late rather than early (hello, FedEx, if I pay you for 10:30 am delivery it needs to be here by 10:30, not hecking noon!), but I’ve had that problem with service techs.

      Look, if I said that we won’t have anyone on site to let you in until 9am, and you agreed to that, why are you here at 7:30?
      In that case though the joke was on him because he just had to wait outside because, like he was told a week in advance, we didn’t have anyone to come get him until 9.

  54. Tau*

    So I started a new job two weeks ago. Overall, things are going great, but there’s something I’m wondering how to deal with where I’d welcome other people’s input.

    Long story short, I have ADHD. One of the consequences of this is that I try to work from the office whenever possible, because I find it much, much harder to focus WFH. One of the other consequences of this is that I have a very hard time focusing on video meetings if I’m not an active participant, even if there’s information in that meeting that is important and relevant to me. The only real way I’ve found to deal with this is to do something with my hands at the same time, with knitting being the single best one. (Adult colouring books also work pretty well, doodling works but is suboptimal and still leads to me missing information, fidget toys don’t seem to consume enough attention to do much.)

    The combination of these things is causing me to worry a little. I have no compunctions about knitting on work calls when working from home since it’s not visible on camera, but I’m concerned about the impression I’d give off whipping out my knitting needles in the middle of the office as an unknown quantity – especially as I work in a male-dominated industry (tech) and my new company is quite large. Team culture seems to be to take meetings at our desks with headsets most of the time instead of finding a room or call box, so the knitting would also be visible to all passerby. And my new team is much larger than my old one, so the meetings I’m in tend to have more participants with correspondingly more time needing to sit quietly, listen, and try to keep my squirrel brain from racing off after a shiny idea.

    Do I just dive in with the knitting anyway, maybe mentioning to the teammates nearby and my manager that I’m doing it because it helps me focus? I’ve had very good interactions with my teammates so far and my manager is actually a former colleague from a previous job who I have a good relationship with and who was eager to recruit me, plus the team culture seems very flexible and open so far… but I’m still not 100% sure it wouldn’t raise eyebrows, and I still worry about the impression I’d give off to passing colleagues and higher-ups who are *not* in my team. Do I try to find an alternate option that works well and isn’t as conspicuous? (Now taking ideas.) Do I try to make do with doodling and resign myself to missing bits and pieces? Or does anyone have any other ideas? Note that I haven’t disclosed the ADHD and want to avoid that if at all possible.

    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Oh dear, I don’t like the combination of new + only female + knitting in a big meeting. Are there any more “advanced” fidget toys that might work better for you? There’s a real range I think. Might a small piece of silly putty or blue tac work for you? I end up just taking meticulous notes for no reason to try and stay engaged, either on paper or typed, but it’s also boring and generally pointless.

      1. Tau*

        Yeah, this is my worry. I’m thankfully not the only woman in my team – I haven’t run the numbers but I think we’re about 1/4 female or thereabouts, which is a pretty good quota for the industry – but the optics of it are… yeah. :(

        I can look into whether there are any super-fancy fidget toys out there… the reason I’m uncertain is because my experience is that the other activity needs to take up a fairly significant amount of brainpower (like, my best experience is not just knitting but knitting something *complicated*), and I don’t think most fidget toys are designed for that. Like, just playing with some blue tac wouldn’t be enough, but sculpting something out of blue tac would probably work… but again raise eyebrows because it’d look (oh, the irony) as though I wasn’t paying attention.

        Taking meticulous notes might be the way forward (in retrospect, taking notes is the only way I managed to retain any information at all from lectures at university). I’m also worried about the optics of being one of the few women and taking notes in every meeting, but it’s probably easier to be subtle about that than about knitting, and it’d at least have the extra benefit of helping me learn about the project. I’ll give it a try.

        1. Teal Tshirt*

          I also take notes for focus, but do not offer to share them so I dn’t become the secretary.
          I listen for decisions made, timelines and info/connections I didn’t know. The first two in particular have saved me many times when a topic came up after the meeting/ presentation.
          If I’m using a notebook, I also set aside a box/area of the paper for personal things I think of during the meeting.
          I have a single ball point pen with several colors and decorate the title, lists, etc.

    2. Mid*

      I’d skip the knitting until you’re a more known quantity (speaking as someone with ADHD who knitted in most of my college lectures to keep myself focused, and who knits on work calls occasionally!) it’s something that’s often distracting to other people, something that non-knitters think is far more mentally involved than it is, and something that will likely get you labeled as “that chick who knits” since people don’t have other information about you. (Also, just to note, the knitting motions can look rather inappropriate if your hands are off screen. Depending on how you knit, it can look like one arm is moving up and down around your crotch area. That was something a friend pointed out to me while we were on a friendly zoom call.)

      Would those metal puzzle toys be a more engaging fidget? Do you have a standing desk, and could you get a balance board or walking pad to stand on during meetings? Can you doodle in a more random/scribbly way instead of getting involved with it?

      I have to do rote data entry as part of my job, and when I need to look attentive and pay attention to a meeting, I’ll tend to work on the data entry on my other monitor, so I’m looking at my screen and also doing something easy so I can listen to the meeting.

      1. Tau*

        Ugh, I didn’t think about the possible knitting motions. I don’t think my shoulders are visibly moving while I knit, but I might have to check on this at some point.

        Metal puzzles… maybe. But I think it’s easy for me to fiddle with them in a fairly mindless way, and at that point not enough of my attention is being taken up and my brain is liable to swerve off into daydreaming. I *do* have a standing desk, though, and I know there are balance boards in the office – I can give that a try, possible in combination with a slightly more mindless fidget toy/doodle.

        …or, inspired by your data entry idea, I make myself some kind of data-entry-esque busywork spreadsheet that will make it *look like* I am doing something work-related but which is actually only there for me to copy some numbers around. The idea of this strikes me as both absurd and also like it could actually work.

    3. Je ne sais what*

      How accessibility/accommodation-friendly is your office generally? My office is super fidget-friendly, and there are multiple fiber art people, so we are often found knitting, crocheting, etc. I see you don’t want to disclose the ADHD, but there are actual studies now showing the benefit of fiber arts for ADHD and anxiety particularly, so I think if you have HR you could definitely make a case for that being a documented accommodation. That being said, I’ve been knitting as an anxiety coping mechanism since middle school, (I’m mid-30s now) and there have definitely been both professional and academic spaces where I can tell it’s being viewed as a little odd. Some of the ways I’ve kind of eased in are noting if other people talk about or ever bring in evidence of their hobbies. Do people have lego figures or rubic’s cubes on their desks? Action figures? Anything that shows some personality? Do you all talk about your hobbies in passing? If so, maybe ease in a comment or 2 here and there about knitting and see how they react. If nothing weird happens, maybe next time you’re in a team meeting, angle your camera so a small glimpse of your knitting might be seen, maybe accompanied by a breezy comment like “oh don’t mind me, I’m just knitting over here, it really helps me concentrate on what you’re saying.” I would make sure to be EXTRA engaged in the meeting the first few times, so they can see that you really are paying attention. After you’ve done it a few times, maybe mention it to your manager very casually like “I think you’ve noticed I’ve been knitting in some of our meetings lately, I’ve really noticed it helps me stay focused and absorb all the information being exchanged. I’m sure you’ll let me know if it’s a problem!”

      In a male-dominated office, I’d go pretty slow and gradual, but I think it’s much more acceptable these days than it used to be, for sure!

      1. Tau*

        It is… *really* hard to answer that first question, actually. In theory, yes, absolutely, I just finished the onboarding where we were basically bludgeoned with the variety of support options the company has for various employees in various situations. There are even specific, uh, contact people for disability who I could in theory send a chat message to and talk to. In practice…

        Thinking this over again, I think the big thing that throws a wrench into this is that I’m in Germany, and I get the impression that awareness of especially non-physical disabilities is not exactly as far advanced over here as in the US context that most of the commentators are coming from. At the same time, we have a very strong culture of employee rights and a lot of laws protecting them – especially in larger companies like mine, where we have e.g. various union negotiated agreements and also a workers’ council that has legal status and decision-making power – plus a somewhat more relationship-based work culture with more focus on consensus than in the US (also, oddly, generally more hierarchical, but a lot of workplaces are actively working against that nowadays, trying to be hip and cool and with everyone on an informal you basis and everything). The consequence is that a lot of things about my workplace would probably come off as ludicrously employee-friendly and flexible by US standards, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to all of the same things you’d expect in an employee-friendly and flexible US workplace, and especially something like neurodiversity awareness is something where it might be much worse than expected. Unhelpful: although I’m German, all the workplaces I’ve worked in so far have had far more Anglo influence (this is actually my first ever job where the company language is German) and a lot of my understanding of workplace norms comes from AAM so I myself am not sure how far this goes.

    4. Thoughts?*

      My former boss used to have the cc (teams calls it live captioning I believe) turned on for the video conferencing on her computer—gave her something to focus on visually—added bonus, her reading what people were saying helped things stick in her memory better than just hearing it. Have you tried that?

      2. Tau*

        Live subtitles would be fantastic, but given it uses AI I’m not sure if it’d be allowed where I am for data protection reasons. I’ll check to see whether it’s an option, though!

    5. PM by Day, Knitter by Night*

      I’m a woman in tech at a defense/manufacturing company. I knit in my cube on pretty much any call I’m not running and during any online training. (In fact I’m annoyed that I had to cancel a vendor sales presentation today because I was hoping to get a few rows done on a sweater…) If anyone comments – which rarely happens – I shrug and tell them it helps me focus. So I really want to tell you to give it a whirl and see how it goes. Two factors give me pause – that you’re so new and I’m not sure how senior you are.

      Two specific pieces of knitting advice if you go ahead. 1. No lace or colorwork. Too much counting and/or too many strands of yarn. Something relatively simple that doesn’t require consulting the pattern every row. 2. Something relatively small. Think socks, not a blanket. (I find socks really good for this purpose and keep a simple, in process pair in my computer bag.)

      1. Tau*

        I’m senior, and was actually specifically hired for my expertise in a language that’s now a large part of the team’s stack but which most of them don’t have a lot of experience with. So that part is thankfully not an issue!

        Ironically, I’ve found colorwork to work surprisingly well for this in the past (it feels like I need to shunt off an amount of attention that in most people would mean they’re goofing off which is… not helpful), but it’s definitely something where I can see how the optics would not be great :’) I might try some of the other pieces of advice first so I can be more of a known quantity, and then try some sock patterns. I’ve always meant to learn how to knit socks.

        1. PM by Day, Knitter by Night*

          Good luck! I avoided socks forever but have found them to be a lot of fun.

        2. Kt*

          Mathematician here, I feel like I get your brain, and while color work doesn’t work for me for this purpose (too much risk of a color escaping to the floor) socks two at a time on circular needles are great, and Estonian lace also works well.

          1. Tau*

            Coincidentally, I’m also something of a former mathematician! (Have a PhD, but left academia afterwards). Definitely taking the 2-at-a-time and lace tips on board in case I should decide to go for it – you’re right that colourwork ends in a mess because of all the yarn a lot of the time which wouldn’t be great for the office.

    6. Qwerty*

      I get the desire, but I’m also a no to knitting in the office. In addition to the perception issues, it can be distracting to others.

      I have found pop bubble bracelets or toys to be a decent knitting replacement. I go down the row with each bubble or alternate pop one skip one. So you get the row nature and repetitiveness of knitting and tactile feedback. It is subtle enough that it is easily tuned out by others.

      One thing I used to do in high school was have a piece of yarn about the length of one arm. I’d make a slip knot, then use that to keep making more slipnots, so you end up with a one-string braid. At the end, tug on both sides and it becomes completely undone. Then repeat the cycle. This can be done under the table so it doesn’t distract anyone.

      1. Tired*

        Knitting can bother others – it’s not completely silent – I’ve done better with crochet, as it’s quieter, but it’s still a challenging thing to start doing (I’m allowed to do something in team meetings but not when any outsiders are present, as per last boss – but resorting to doodling/pointless note taking right now as a big reorganisation is going on & I never know who turns up where). The brain squirrels are not easily fooled by fidgets, they only work for me in small group conversations, not for listening alone (plus I have long braids and keep getting fidgets stuck in my hair. I do not know how this happens but it does, a lot)

      2. Tau*

        I’m not as worried about distracting others because of the setup: it’s an open-plan office without assigned desks that’s divided into different “collaboration” and “focus” zones, and I always sit in a collaboration zone. So in principle anyone who sits here needs to be fine with some noise and everyone has the option to move to one of the focus zones if they need total quiet. Add that to the fact that it’s very remote-friendly and the office seems to generally be fairly empty, and I’d prefer not to get too far into the weeds about hypotheticals for a very quiet noise/motion like knitting in this regard as long as nobody in my vicinity has actually complained.

        The optics are a different story. I realised in the course of this conversation that there are also some cultural issues at play, ran the idea past my parents for a culture check and they both came back with “nope, not where people outside of the team can see you”, so… yeah. Have now looked into fidget toys, but as suspected most of them look like they wouldn’t work due to being too mindless. Pop bubble bracelet *maybe*, but I’m uncertain. The slip knot braid is an idea, but I think I might just have to resign myself to becoming the world’s most excessive note-taker for a while there.

    7. Quitting Timely*

      I have severe ADHD and social anxiety, both undiagnosed until adulthood, so I do a lot of distraction methods that are invisible to others and at most require maybe a notepad and pen. Some ideas include: meeting BINGO (for common phrases or specific to your workplace); counting every time someone says a particular word or words and scorekeeping by person (use initials or something); writing down every number said during the meeting and keep rearranging them so they stay in numerical order; (my favorite) mentally spell every word everyone says and try to keep up with the speaker (I’m bad with math but became a phenomenal speller—been doing this one since I was a kid); draw org charts or flow charts for everything being discussed, even if the meeting sidetracks (I had one about creamer flavors once). Basically by gamifying the contents of the meeting I was able to pay attention better while also not doing anything obviously “non-meeting.” It’s much easier now that I am allowed to just play a game on my phone while I listen on Zoom calls but I still pull these tricks out for in person meetings.

      1. Quitting Timely*

        Forgot to mention that sometimes it helps to do multiple of these in one meeting.

      2. Tau*

        Oh my god, these ideas are all fantastic – thank so much! I’m still too new to know what the common phrases are to manage a good BINGO, but a “who used the most acronyms” competition would be very doable and hopefully help me learn some of those along the way (the acronym density is. uh. something to behold.)

  55. Je ne sais what*

    I’ve been in my role at my organization for almost 2 years. I have about 10 years of relevant work experience that has led me to this mid-level role, and I was excited to accept the role when offered because it was a significant pay increase for me at the time. I didn’t realize that I had been pretty significantly underpaid for most of my career, and about a year ago my boss kinda let me in on the fact that I should be paid even more. Most people in my field have a graduate degree and 3-5 years of experience. I’m about halfway through the graduate degree relevant to my field, and have 10 years of experience, so she seemed to feel like I was worth it, but HR overruled her, primarily because I had just started my graduate degree. Boss attempted to get them to commit to a significant increase either when I complete the degree, or incremental increases over the 2ish years it’ll take to complete, but they weren’t willing to commit to anything. Last year after my evaluation, I got the usual 3% increase and a small market adjustment, totalling about $4k/year increase. That increase was across the board, so I’m still out of sync with my peers in the office.

    So it’s evaluation time again, and I’m hoping we can try again to get a raise considered. This morning, I got an email from a very closely adjacent office at my company about a role that has just opened on their team. The title is the same level as mine, just focused on a different community. Let’s say I’m an assistant director for teapot painting, and this role is assistant director for teapot designing. This new role’s low end salary range is about 10k more than I’m currently making (and I’m not making 6 figures, so that’s pretty significant). I’m very qualified, would do very similar work, and no mention of the graduate degree requirement. I feel confident that I could ask for the middle of the range if I were offered the role, which would be a 12-15k increase.

    Here’s the thing. I love my current job. I love the people I work with, I LOVE my manager, I feel good about the work I do and I’m really good at it. I would prefer to try and stay in my job with a better pay range. Is it crazy to go to my boss next week when we discuss my performance evaluation and say “hey, I saw this job in neighboring department with this pay range, and it feels comparable to my role. Can you tell me if it’s possible to get that raise and stay in my current role, and if not, can I have your support to apply for this other role?”

    She’s already demonstrated herself to be a supportive boss, and we’ve facilitated promotions or lateral moves within the company for people before, so I’m not worried about her causing problems with the other job at all. It feels a little aggressive to present her with this sort of ultimatum though. Thoughts?

    1. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I think you can bring it up and ask when the last time the pay bands for your role was adjusted, as you saw the listing etc.

    2. KitKat*

      Agree with the other commenter, not crazy to raise with this framing! A supportive boss will be happy to get you the raise OR the transfer

    3. TCO*

      I think your wording is great. A good company will be concerned about internal pay equity. Seeing the same job on another team for so much more than you’re making is a strong reason to ask about a raise or transfer.

    4. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      This could be just what your boss needs to convince whoever-it-is that pay equity within the organization is important. I’d lead with what you said: “I love working for you, I love the people I work with, I’m good at this job and not looking to leave.” And then “However, as you and I have already discussed, the salary isn’t as competitive as it could be. You’ve tried to make the case. Now I’ve seen this other internal position and that reinforces it for me.” Then what you said about raise/staying or applying.

  56. Chicken Husband*

    I would like opinions of whether this is a bad idea or not.
    My wife started raising chickens as a COVID project and we currently have about 20 adult chickens. (That doesn’t include the 17 chicks she bought this week that are in the brooder.) Given that the weather is warming up, egg production is ramping up and we get 12-18 eggs every 2 days.
    With the cost of eggs going up, my wife is working on setting up a trading stand (“take what you want and leave what you can”) at the end of our driveway next to the road. She has also asked me to let my coworkers (all of whom know we have chickens) that she is willing to sell eggs at $3/dozen, which is about half the price at grocery stores in this area.

    On one hand, I see no problem with making this offer. We have more eggs than we know what to do with and she is selling for well under market price. (We aren’t price gouging.) On the other hand, I am asking my coworkers to pay me (technically my wife, but same idea) for something.

    1. Alex*

      Why don’t you just let your coworkers know about your trading stand?

      I don’t see anything wrong with selling things to coworkers, but I can imagine it getting out of hand in the office. Everyone will want these! What if you don’t have enough to meet demand? Who will get them? How will you get all those eggs into the office? Seems like a lot, and could be a major distraction in the office.

      I’d just say, hey everyone, we’ve opened a trading stand at the end of our driveway! Come by if you are interested in eggs.

      1. Chicken Husband*

        I don’t live anywhere near any of my coworkers. I’m about 40 minutes south of the workplace. Most of my coworkers live nearby, and pretty much everyone is north of the office.

        Getting them to the office is pretty easy. We have disposable cardboard egg cartons that I can use for transport. Since the eggs are fresh and not washed, they do not need to be kept refrigerated. (Washing eggs washes off a protective layer that keeps the eggs from spoiling. We have a basket of eggs on our kitchen table and they stay good for over a week.)

        1. Alex*

          I see. Well, I still would steer clear of the office situation, not because of the sales, but just because it could have unintended consequences. You want your main business in the office to be office business, not egg business. I would imagine a LOT of interest–even if there wasn’t an egg shortage! Local eggs are wonderful and highly coveted items.

    2. Not A Project Manager*

      I don’t think I would pitch my egg business to my coworkers, but I’d probably mention the chickens and if anyone asks about buying the eggs you can tell them the deal. But I think it may start quickly becoming a distraction if you’re doing any volume of egg business at the office. It seems to me that right now you could probably find lots of willing customers that aren’t your coworkers?

    3. Too Long Til Retirement*

      I would be immensely grateful if a coworker offered eggs at $3/dozen. No one is going to think that you are making the big bucks off eggs at that price! It’s more a cost for chicken feed and upkeep.

    4. Amber Rose*

      You’re not really asking your coworkers to pay you anymore than say, all those parents who hawk girl guide cookies at work. You’re just making an offer available to them and playing middleman.

      It would only be a problem if you were aggressively selling, like some MLM folk do. But just letting them know the offer is there is fine.

    5. Mrs Kung Pao*

      My previous role, a few of us had chickens (me included), and while I didn’t sell my eggs, one of my coworkers did, and people were grateful for that. Fresh eggs are the best! This was many years ago where eggs were less polarized, but still.

    6. Dinwar*

      I agree that there’s nothing odd about this. As long as you’re not, say, a manager telling some of your staff but not others that you have the eggs for sale, you’re fine. You’re just letting people know you have eggs for sale, they can buy or not as they see fit.

      I, for one, would buy–chickens are omnivores, and eggs from chickens raised in smaller flocks (who tend to have access to the outdoors) taste better (richer, more complex) because of the more natural diets. Particularly in pastries and cakes, FYI, in case any coworker does those as a hobby. ;) Had some relatives win county fair competitions that way.

      If it gets to the point where it’s a significant distraction definitely reconsider. But as long as it’s along the lines of “Just letting you know, I left your eggs in the fridge in the break room with a sticky note on them”, you’re fine.

    7. Mid*

      My coworker has chickens and when he has excess eggs, will send an office wide email (we have a buy/sell listserv) saying he has X dozen available for $Y, first come first serve. It works great for everyone.

    8. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      This is not weird at all. Many people at my workplace do something like this, either with eggs or produce or even flowers. There are a lot of farms nearby! Go for it, I can imagine there will be many people who are grateful for such a great deal.

    9. Emperor Kuzco*

      My manager has been baking bread with his wife for quite awhile and has now reached the point that he’s comfortable with the quality to sell them – he posted a short message in our Teams group with a list of what breads he offers and if anyone was interested, to message him (also didn’t list prices). It was a really nice and simple way of offering his wares without pressuring anyone. I took him up on it and am excited to get a fresh baked sourdough loaf, totally worth the super-affordable price he offered.

    10. A*

      Sorry to be That Person on The Internet but you might want to consult your local regulations on food handling and safety laws. Different places have different thresholds on cottage industries.

      Eggs might be different than selling vegetables or baked goods from a roadside stand because there might be laws or regulations around safe temperatures for holding and selling.

      If you already looked into this and it’s legal in your area, please forgive this condescending comment.

    11. WellRed*

      I have coworkers who sell eggs in the office. It’s fine, not a big deal and there’s a certain enjoyment for buyers to going back to the land and hyper local if you will. Offer the eggs. Really.

    12. Rural*

      I wouldn’t mess with the stand. Too many people are likely to take advantage. At most you’ll have 3 dozen a week for now, close coworkers or local acquaintances will be happy to solve that for you

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        Maybe that depends on where you live. I’m in Olympia, WA, and regularly buy eggs from two different local stands with a trust-based setup: sign with price and Venmo or Paypal account, eggs, and a spot for us to return the empty cartons. I love buying from my neighbors and the yolks are amazing. They sell other things as well, and we have stands like this dotted around the area with flowers, veggies, berries. Some are bigger with a fridge set-up, some are a little tiny shack. They do it every season so they must be coming out ahead.

    13. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Years ago I worked on a college campus where one of the librarians had a weekly egg day. You had to sign up to be on the list, and on whatever egg day was, at lunch we’d all go to her vehicle in the parking lot where she had a cooler full of egg cartons. Loved it.

      I think it’s fine with a low-key approach like a note in the break room (“see me if you want to be on the list for happy-hen eggs from my wife’s hens at $3/dozen; I can bring them into the office on Thursdays to make it easy for you”) or in your chat space if you have one that’s dedicated to social connection.

      I also think $3/dozen is ludicrously low, to be honest. I’m buying at a nearby neighborhood stand at $7/dozen. Eggs from happy free-range chickens are quite a bit more than that at the grocery store. Your wife’s call, obviously.

      You may wind up in conversations with concerns about bird flu, though. Someone just mentioned that to me and I honestly hadn’t been thinking about it.

    14. bay scamp*

      Huh, I’m finding the early replies to this interesting because they are so negative about this! I think every place where I’ve worked in the past decade or so has had an egg seller! As at least one person has alluded to, the only snag I’ve ever heard of is that sometimes the demand outpaces the supply, so sometimes people who newly want eggs only get them if someone who is in the regular rotation bows out for some reason. This is the only reason I haven’t tried to buy eggs from my current workplace’s egg seller… I have hundreds of co-workers so I assumed he was probably full up.

    15. Numbat*

      Side note: In my country, selling eggs from a little stand at your house can impact your home insurance, because you’re undertaking business activities from home. Just be sure you’re not shooting yourself in the foot when you do this!

  57. Too Long Til Retirement*

    Some background before I ask the question: I work for a family owned company. There is no real “HR,” all the employment and insurance paperwork is handled by the owner’s daughter. The daughter has been allowed to WFH full time since the pandemic. One other employee moved across the country and has been allowed to work remotely since the move.

    My job entails site visits and there are times where I do in fact need to be in the office. But I do not need to be in the office every day, and there are many days where I travel to the office to simply stare at my computer, do work, and then turn around and drive home. I would REALLY enjoy a hybrid work schedule, and it is grating on me more and more knowing that some employees get to work remotely while the rest of us do not.

    Has anyone been able to successfully ask for and receive a hybrid work schedule, using other employees as an example if there was pushback on it? If yes, what words did you use? Or is this simply a case of “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.”?

    1. Rick Tq*

      How strong is your position and what is your relationship with the owner? If you are a critical employee with a lot of capital with the Boss you may be able to just start working from home.

      Back in the day our owner was a Meat in the Seats guy so I was commuting 80 miles one-way. After my daughter was born the company opened up its first satellite office about 10 miles from my house. I had a good relationship with Management and enough political capital one day I moved into the satellite office and told my supervisor “I’m not coming to HQ anymore, I will be working from office up here going forward. I will be in the office, you will be able to see me working, but I can’t lose 3 hours of my day driving to HQ for no reason”.

      That was 20 years ago.

      1. Too Long Til Retirement*

        I’m the person who the owner goes to for all projects he needs work on, so my role is critical. He has expressed dismay at the thought of me leaving, so that is on my side.

        He is a “meat in the seats” (thank you for that expression, I love it!) person who prefers to walk to my office or use the interoffice phone to talk to me instead of his cell phone. He also needs some hand holding sometimes when projects get complicated and needs that to be in-person many times. Other employees have taken to “making demands” of him that have led to them quitting when he wouldn’t cave, so I am wary of asking for it for that reason.

        Glad to hear that it worked out for you, but I don’t think me saying “I’m not coming to HQ anymore” would go over well at all.

  58. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    I would just like to thank Alison for the “final F-you” discussion, which provided a great deal of much-needed entertainment.

  59. Aggretsuko*

    How do I get myself out of the blahs? I am not sick, I have had 8 hours of sleep, I have no justifiable reason not to be here and I have to do something a few hours after work in this town, so I couldn’t go home if I wanted to. It’s pouring rain and freezing cold and I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING TODAY, EVERYTHING IS BORING. I can’t work on anything I want to work on and yet have to look busy, I’m dragging through boring Office 365 classes and I don’t care about what I’m “supposed” to learn (got told we have to do 2 hours of classes a month to keep our license) and I JUST WANNA BE IN BED. But I have six more hours to endure and pretend to be caring.

    2. ruthling*

      Can you do something you never get to because it is tedious and kind of lean into the suck? I do stuff like filing emails or deleting things that need to be deleted.

    3. EMP*

      Sorry if this is off base, but if you feel like this all the time and not just on a particular slog of a workday, consider treatment for depression

    4. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Make plans to do something that will help someone else — volunteering, checking in on friends/relatives who are having a tough time, attending a protest if that’s your thing.

    5. Qwerty*

      Eat some chocolate!

      Seriously, it increases dopamine or has the same effect as dopamine. I now eat a Hershey bar whenever my brain refuses to turn on.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I did! And made myself have 2 Cokes rather than one. That seems to have solved it, actually.

  60. please advise*

    I will soon be taking over a lot of academic advising responsibilities and have been tasked with coming up with a training plan to teach myself how to be an advisor. I can get some funding for this, but I have not been given a set budget- basically just “hey, pitch us what you need for this and we’ll fund it within reason”. I have some background in student affairs/general higher ed but no prior advising experiences. I’m signing up for national and regional orgs and reaching out to people who have somewhat similar roles at my institution, but does anyone have suggestions for other things I should do?

    1. Je ne sais what*

      Are there people who do advising at your institution? It’s pretty important that you be at the same institution if you’re going to do this; Just go ask them if you can shadow some advising appointments for a couple of days. It’s ok if they’re advising on a different topic, just pay attention to the structure and approach. That’s how I learned most of my advising skills. I also teach students to be peer advisors, and role-playing advising is the best teacher in my opinion. Find people to practice with. Do some research and practice on reflective listening. Put together a file or document with all the resources advisees might need, so you can remember where everything is. Make sure you know what to do and who to talk to if you don’t know the answer to a question.

    3. Rainy*

      Disclaimer: I work in higher ed, student facing, but am not an academic advisor.

      Second the shadowing recommendation from Je ne sais what. Also, if you know what your population is going to be, start familiarizing yourself with the requirements for those majors/minors. Figure out who you can refer students to if you’re not the right person for them to talk to. Examples: you do A&S advising and end up with someone who’s switching to a different college, or what they actually want to talk about is internships not for credit, or they need career guidance rather than academic advising, or they need to talk to Health & Wellness, Financial Aid, or someone from Academic Resources or the Disability Services office. Reach out to people in those areas and have a quick meeting just to see a face. Seek out trainings in whatever student information system your institution uses (Slate, Banner, whatever–I hope it’s not the garbage build that SalesForce has been selling to higher ed, gods help you if it is).

  61. babylawyer*

    Is it unprofessional to bring a Stanley-style cup to a board meeting? I recently got a couple of knockoff Stanley Cups (24oz) because I like to drink large quantities of iced tea as my morning caffeine in the warmer months and this style of cup is great for transporting it. I am a new associate at a law firm and I regularly attend board meetings for organizations that my firm represents. I have generally opted not to bring my cup of tea to these meetings (which are first thing in the morning) because I worry that people associate that style of cup with bratty tweens, trend seekers, and ladies beating each other up in Target to get the latest drop. I am a 26 year old woman and am always conscious of not appearing juvenile in these settings, because I’m always the youngest person in the room by at least a decade, usually more. Am I overthinking this, or is my instinct correct?

    1. YNWA*

      Personally, I think you’re overthinking it. Most people don’t care about what brand a mug is and only very online people are going to even be aware of the hype around Stanley cups. I have a 32 oz Yeti I bring everywhere with me because I drink a lot of water and no one has ever remarked on it. And I think at one point people were boycotting Yeti’s for some reason but I don’t care, it keeps ice for 8+ hours.

    2. Shutterdoula*

      Just don’t put stickers, charms, or other accessories on it and you should be fine. I wouldn’t blink at a plain insulated mug. But add some kitty stickers, a fuzzy pig charm and a snack cup and I’d wonder about you.

      1. babylawyer*

        No charms or stickers, but the two I have are hot pink or teal. Not the colors I would have chosen, just the colors in the 2 pack that Costco had on sale. I assume teal is better than hot pink, but both are pretty youthful colors.

        1. Coverage Associate*

          My law firm gave out hot pink notebooks with firm branding to all staff for International Women’s Day.

          When I was in law school in the ‘00s, I asked a friend who was better at such staff whether it was ok to get a pink cellphone I would use at work. She didn’t think the color was an issue.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Teal is also associated with mid-century modern design, so I’d not think anything of it. (late 50s, engineering adjacent)

          I have to admit that as much as I love hot pink and magenta, you run the risk of triggering Barbie/Disney Princess associations even if you’re more thinking Pink Panther.

      2. Zona the Great*

        FWIW, I work in a highly visible and highly professional field with legislators and the like and no one would “wonder about you” if you bejeweled your Stanley.

      3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I am in tech and my Yeti emotional support water bottle is covered in stickers. Literally nobody cares.

        1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

          People cover their laptops with stickers and I don’t think a thing about it. It’s an expression of individuality and that’s a good thing.

          I don’t work in a law firm but I’m in a state agency and we can be in meetings with our laptops with people at all levels and with the general public.

    3. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      If you’re sitting with the board, I wouldn’t. If you’re sitting in the audience, probably not an issue.

      1. babylawyer*

        No audience in these setups. Just a big board room table where all the trustees sit with the lawyers, accountants, investment advisors, etc. The trustees are all very casual, but all the advisors are more buttoned up.

    4. Justme, The OG*

      You’re overthinking this in a general sense. But I don’t really know the dynamics of your law office.

    5. Laggy Lu*

      You are probably over thinking it. But, if you are still worried, why don’t you have a regular glass or smaller mug on hand you can pour some of your tea into for the meetings.

    6. Amber Rose*

      This is way, way overthinking professionalism. Meet your dress code and have a professional attitude. Nobody cares about your cup, just like how nobody blinks when I pull out my phone with it’s magical unicorn kitty phone case or when I wore a Sailor Moon lanyard for the better part of a year.

      1. babylawyer*

        A trustee once called me a “cute little girl” at one of these board meetings, so I’m now hypervigilant about not giving anyone any additional reasons to doubt my maturity or competence!

        1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

          In that case, I recommend taking a very conventional standard sized cup into the meeting and keeping your Stanley cup for before and after.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          This is the best use for company logo merch…. Does your firm have any? If yes ask the coordinator if they ever get larger insulated cups with the firm on it.

        3. Roland*

          In that case, I would not bring a large pastel tumbler to meetings. Sucks and unfair but it is what it is.

      2. Unicorn Kitty Judge*

        People are absolutely noticing these things, but if you are a known quantity its something they are willing to overlook if you are otherwise stellar.

    8. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      What’s everyone else doing? Do that. If others have a variety of beverage containers for their coffee, water, whatever, then you’re following the firm’s norms. Use the teal one, not the pink one, per your comment on colors down thread.

      I also find myself wondering how long the meeting is and how you manage it when you’ve consumed 24 ounces of iced tea on top of whatever you had before the meeting starts. If you carry in a giant container of fluid and have to slip out of the room partway through to go pee, that seems more like to be an issue, not what kind of container it is.

  62. Ankle Grooni*

    Reaching out for advice on how to support one of my student employees who I have been working with for several years to help feel supported and successful. The student is cognitive diverse.

    They have been in kind of a holding pattern at my institution and have completed two master’s degrees. They felt safe and supported in the learning and working environment here, but realize that we cannot continue to be their long-term resolution and need to move on. They are an excellent and meticulous computer programmer and given clear instructions and additional time, they would be invaluable to many organizations.

    It’s the interpersonal and social skills that become overwhelming. What kind of accommodations would they be able to request for an interview? What type of workplace would they start looking for?

    Our school’s career center is not equipped for assisting a student like them with interviewing or networking skills. Does anyone in the community have any insight that I can share with them?

    Much obliged.

    1. Still Queer, Still Here*

      Well first, are they open to asking for accommodations? I’ve done interview prep and planning with folks like this before, and often they are very averse to disclosing or asking for accommodations. So you need to figure that out first.

      If they’re open to it, then I think the best accommodation for folks with these challenges are asking if they can get some or all of the interview questions ahead of time, like 12-24 hours. Ask HR or a recruiter about it, not the hiring manager if possible. Since they’re a programmer, focus on jobs that require a coding test or something first, those are less likely to require a lot of soft skill demonstration in an interview. There are also a couple of job boards focused on hiring neurodiverse candidates, such as Mentra, Neurodiversity Employment Network, Neurodiverse Career Connector. There are also some Reddit Communities where people share resources–Grain of salt with those.

      1. Ankle Grooni*

        They reached out to me asking for assistance. They have been so reluctant to leave the safe haven of school and enter the real job market, hence the multiple graduate degrees, that I want to set them up with as much of a plan as possible.

        Thank you for the resources. I will share with them.

    2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      Programming is a quagmire of a job market recently; overspecialization, requirement bloat, and magical thinking abound.

      During the amount of time it’s likely to take for a reasonable offer/opening to appear, I’d advise your student to pick up another degree in a more employable background or field.

      1. Emperor Kuzco*

        Hmm, that seems like a pretty expensive suggestion for a student that already has 2 masters degrees.

        1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

          If they’re going to be unemployed, at least let them come out of that unemployment in a viable profession. It’d be worse to spend the time unemployed and still be stuck in this nonsense for the rest of their career.

          1. Kt*

            I understand where you’re coming from, but at this point, going through more school is nonsense, and every other field will say the same. “They shouldn’t do business; programming is employable.” “They shouldn’t do chemistry, business is more employable.” and so on.

            Programming is much more welcoming to neurodivergent folks than some fields. They’ve just got to do what they can & spread their wings. I do recommend giving talks on projects in Python meetups or Linux user groups or .NET dev groups. It’s a controlled environment in which you establish some professional expertise and by speaking for ten minutes on a project, you end up with other people coming to you with questions.

            1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

              I get where you’re coming from, but also consider:

              As a student, any loans may be in interest-only status.
              As a current student, any liberal-arts requirements are taken care of (names vary, but it’s all the stuff outside the major). So, say, an Accounting or Finance bachelor’s may well be an 18-24 month investment insead of the normal 48-60 month.
              Programming skills will only help in many other roles via automation, math modeling, etc.

              Sending a new programmer out in to a depressed, irrational market where entry level means 5-25 years of experience is sending a lamb to slaughter under ideal circumstances. I like the student’s odds in a programming-adjacent field far better.

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        That was my first thought too. Do they actually have to leave the environment? Are there contract positions open, if not permanent/full-time?

  63. Shutterdoula*

    Inspired by the spouse’s social media thread above, my husband is applying for a job that requires a security clearance/check. As part of that, they want names & addresses of all of his siblings and all of mine as well.
    Only problem is, I’m estranged from some of my family and do not even know where some of my siblings live. One in particular, I know the city he lived in twenty years ago – and that was two states away. No idea if he’s still there, he was in college then. With a fairly common name (like “Mike Anderson” or “Steve Lewis” level of common – there are probably hundreds of people in the US with his name.) I doubt I could even find him, and I definitely do not want him back in my life!
    Surely I’m not the only one in this situation. Other people have family they’re not in touch with, right? Is this the kind of thing that could keep him from getting the job? How should it be handled on the application? Husband says leave him off entirely. I suggested putting his name and then just “unknown”. Or asking how to handle it. Husband is nervous to ask them. I feel like my husband shouldn’t be ruled out of this job because this brother is a massive glassbowl.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Definitely don’t leave him off a security clearance form, they will find the connection and leaving it off looks shady. I think your way of listing his name and “unknown” for contact information is probably best.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yep, this. They may come back and ask when/where you last were in contact. If you’ve been estranged for a long time, then they aren’t going to be able to tell the investigator anything about your conduct and character, and investigators know to be leery of people with axes to grind.

        Investigators don’t just ask your contacts questions about you. They also ask ‘who else does Jane Doe know?’ and ‘could you tell us how we can reach Jane’s brother Fergus?’ And they will go to your current and previous address and knock on doors too.

    2. pally*

      My take: I would indicate the sibling exists and indicate “whereabouts unknown”. I wouldn’t even indicate last known address/location. Thing is: what will the company conclude should they discover this sibling was omitted? That your husband lied? He’s not lying if he lists the sibling and does not know where they are located. Let the company deal with the common name issue.

      FYI: a neighbor of mine had to go through gov’t security clearance where he had to list all of his neighbors (me for one!).
      They interviewed me. The questions were mostly to find out if he was paying his bills (how would I know that??), causing trouble (“are the cops here a lot?” My response: never. They are more likely to be at my place than his!) and if I knew if he was hanging around anyone that might be a national security risk (how would I be able to tell that??).

      Apparently, they did not talk to everyone he listed as neighbors. I just happened to be home. Maybe they will see that there’s no value in digging up relatives whose whereabouts are not known by you.

      And he got the job!

    3. Rick Tq*

      Provide all the information you have, omitting him entirely will likely cause your husband to fail the background check. I will bet the signature block includes something to the effect of “I swear the information provided is true and complete to the best of my knowledge” so intentionally omitting him would be BAD.

      If you haven’t had contact with BadBro for 20 years put down the last information you in the address field and note that you are estranged.

      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        Exactly this! Also in the note do a date, estranged since 2020 or not in touch, last spoke to in 2020. I had a college roommate contact me 10 years out of college to put on a security clearance since we once lived together. They’re very thorough! I just told me we lost touch since college until they tracked me down for the form, they asked about stuff sounded like could anyone blackmail them, did they have debts (gambling?) , were they open about who they dated etc.

      2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        I wouldn’t say you’re estranged. Why offer up additional information that leads to more questions? And you’re not even the applicant. “Whereabouts and contact information unknown” is plenty.

    4. Mumwa*

      Have your husband put your sibling’s name on the application, along with whatever contact information you have for them. If there’s space to leave a note that you’re estranged, add that information. During the background check, the investigator will go through the entire application with your husband and will specifically ask if there’s anything they need to know about each person on the application. Your husband can raise the estrangement there.

      I’m estranged from my dad and my sister, and this is what I did when I went through a background check last year. There was no issue. In fact, I have a family member who’s a background investigator, and estrangements are on the tamer end of the things he sees/hears!

    5. califragilistic*

      Absolutely do not leave him off the form, that will at minimum cause some uncomfortable questions from the investigator, and at worse can get his clearance denied. Put the sibling on and say that you don’t have any contact info for him. This is not a pretty normal scenario and won’t affect the investigation.

      When it comes to clearances, always, always overshare. Signs of deception will get you rejected faster than whatever it is you’re trying to hide.

    6. LBD*

      A family member had to do something similar for their security clearance for their new job. My understanding was that the clearance people were looking for close connections who might lead to a breach of security for family member in the performance of their job. Wildly made up example: Uncle Tony turns out to be a mob boss and scuppers family member’s career as a supreme court judge. Slightly less hystrionic example: Uncle Tony is a drug dealer and may want access to pharmaceuticals that family member handles in bulk. Best case scenario: Uncle Tony has worked at Mundane Job for 20 years and lives a livestyle in keeping with expected income from said job.

  64. NPNP*

    Resume advice requested:
    What’s better, so say “lead a team of professionals who design teapots” or “ Lead a team of 21 teapot designers”? And does the number matter? So if it’s 8 ppl say the number, but if it’s 3 don’t specify?

    1. Shutterdoula*

      Go with the shorter, active phrasing “teapot designers”. I would assume they’re professionals and not, say, a group of kindergartners pretending to be professionals.
      As for the number, I think that’s less clear – but if there’s space, you could include it.

    2. Deit*

      Numbers are better but also try making the bullets STAR.

      Led teapot designers. meh.

      Led 3 teapot designers. OK.

      Led 3 teapot designers who won the contract for the empires tea ceremony. Good.

  65. Kesnit*

    My coworkers and I are having problems with someone we have to work with.

    I’m a prosecutor in a small city. One of the local defense attorneys, Shelly, started work in July 2023 after she took the Bar. She went from undergrad to law school to her current job, so is in her mid-20s. Shelly is a good attorney. There is no reason she should feel like she needs to flirt her way to a good deal for her clients, but she does. She plays up being “cute” and “flirty,” often defaulting to “eye batting” and baby voice if negotiations aren’t going her way. I assumed that once she got more comfortable in court, she’d back off the childishness. She hasn’t, and her actions have gone past “amusing” to “frustrating.” One of my coworkers commented that working with Shelly is like trying to talk to his 22-month old daughter.

    Shelly does have more senior attorneys in her office (several of whom are female), but she handles most of her cases solo.

    1. Deit*

      My first thought is that this is a you and your coworker problem.

      My second thought is that even if Shelly is being flirty, it’s not your circus not your monkeys.

      My thoughts regardless of the situation is that you should stop gossiping with your coworkers about Shelly.

    2. MsM*

      If you’ve got a good relationship with the more senior attorneys, maybe you can ask them if anyone’s tried mentoring her on this?

      Otherwise, unless she’s going so over the top in negotiations that you have an opening to point out that she’s harming her attempts to be persuasive with these antics, I think it’s something you just need to do your best to ignore. Eventually, she’s going to come in front of a judge who will not find it charming and let her know in no uncertain terms, and maybe (hopefully) that’ll shake her out of it.

      1. Not A Project Manager*

        Yes, the only person well positioned to address this is a female senior attorney on her side. If that’s not you, it’s not something I would get into.

    3. pally*

      Wow!
      We had an employee like this. Apparently, the only way she knew how to interact with the male employees was to be flirty.

      I hope someone took her aside to suggest to her that this really wasn’t the most professional way to interact with people at work.

      Don’t know what her life was like after she quit to move back home.

    4. AnonToday*

      Ooh, this is tough. Is the flirting directed at you or is it just grating to be around it? I’m not in law and unsure how lawyers work together, sorry if that clouds my response!

      Is the flirting working during her negotiations? The reason I ask is because when I was younger and in grad school, I probably turned up the charm because it seemed to resonate really well with specific types of male professors. Just kind of figured I might as well use that to my advantage since I was stuck within the patriarchal systems of academia. If you have any sort of mentorship role with her you could let her know that even if it works on a few people, it’s leaving a bad taste for possibly more and could impact her career.

    5. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I mean… being annoyed at opposing counsel’s tactics feels part and parcel to litigation.

      1. Coverage Associate*

        This would be my recommendation. I am very not flirty, but I am also sad that I can no longer play young and new and confused with other lawyers.

        But I did stop pretty fast after I realized it didn’t work anymore.

        I would just keep your communication style very professional and give her what breaks you can when she communicates how you prefer.

        (I don’t know what breaks look like in proffer sessions. I only do civil. But I know that I can respond faster to emails in a tone that works for me, because I don’t have to think about addressing the tone on top of the substance, and that speed helps opposing counsel. I guess in a live communication, it would be easier to concede a good point well presented than one presented unprofessionally.)

    7. Glomarization, Esq.*

      This is the second defense lawyer in your jurisdiction that you’ve come here to complain about.

      Since she’s not a prosecutor, she and her level of professionalism aren’t really your problem.

      If or when you’re in a position where you need to negotiate with her, you can choose to ignore her inappropriate mannerisms and simply deal with her as if she were speaking to you in a normal way. If her mannerisms make it so that you don’t actually understand something she’s saying — for instance, she’s introduced ambiguity into her statements — then you can say something like, “Sorry, I don’t believe I caught your meaning. Would you please repeat that so that I’m sure I’m understanding you correctly?” Myself, I like to think that I would answer someone speaking to me in baby talk with simply, “What?” As for batting her eyelashes at you, what if you said to her, “Do you have something in your eye? Do you need a moment in the bathroom?”

      As with the last defense lawyer you had issues with, if you think she’s actually incompetent, then if I were you I’d look to your jurisdiction’s professional responsibility rules to see about your obligation to file a complaint about her.

    8. Fluffy Fish*

      Except you don’t have a problem with someone you work with.

      You have a person whose behavior you don’t like, but you have given absolutely no examples of how it is negatively affecting your ability to do your work.

      You really don’t get to decide how someone else acts especially someone who isnt even employed by the same employer.

      Ignore it. Redirect it when appropriate. That’s it. Not only is it not your monkeys, its not even the same circus as yours.

    10. Seeking Second Childhood*

      If it crosses into sexual harassment, you can file a complaint. Other than that, this is not someone at your office so I think you’re out of luck.

  66. Golden*

    Any tips on how to get over feeling really blue when your referral doesn’t work out?

    My industry (not government) has been clobbered by layoffs and market downturns, and I was lucky to leave my last company just months before it folded. I’ve referred at least 5 colleagues from there to my new organization, but not a single one has been hired. I’m devastated for my colleagues having to continue their search in an unfriendly market, and it’s dragging my mood down a lot. Anyone else experience something similar?

  67. Gabriel Susan Lewis*

    I had an initial phone interview today with a recruiter and was asked a couple of the dreaded “tell me about a time when..” questions.

    I understand why interviewers ask these questions, but I tend to struggle with them. There are some that I can answer fairly confidently, but there are others that I have a lot of trouble with. Sometimes it is because the question doesn’t apply to my work experience (such as if it’s related to management). Other times, it’s because any story I can think of doesn’t sound like a good example to me, such as asking about conflict when the only stories I can think of involve my boss (to be clear, I consider disagreement to count as conflict and assume that the interviewer thinks the same). I’d say most of the time, though, it’s either because I can’t think of any instances, or I’m asked about something that has happened several times but no single instance of it stands out. Typically, when I get stuck, I try to say what I think I would do if the situation were to happen or what I did in the multiple instances that it happened. I also had times where I asked if we could come back to the question to give me time to come up with an answer and, if the interviewer didn’t bring it up first, I would remind them and have my answer. I admittedly haven’t used the latter approach recently.

    I have wondered if it would be a good idea to start logging when things happen, but so many of these things don’t seem significant enough in the moment to try to remember them in the long run. I could also be better at preparing for these questions before the interview, but I think I do better if I don’t overthink interviews. I did a lot of that when I was coming out of college and it didn’t feel helpful. It also doesn’t help that I almost never know ahead of time what questions the interviewer will ask. I have seen suggestions online about asking for the questions prior to the interview but I’m skeptical about how that would be perceived.

    I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about what I could do to not be so blindsided by these questions.

    1. Thoughts?*

      I’ve prepped answers in advance…Alison’s book has a number of standard ones (including the ones you’ve mentioned) that I’ve used.

      I also usually have 2-3 scenarios that I can use for a number of the questions (conflict/difficult employee or colleague is one; conflict/competing deadlines/ is another; conflict/differing opinions/overcoming obstacles is a third)

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Your idea about building up a log is a good one.

      Can you devote 10 minutes every Friday to reflect on the week past and note those things down? You can also try to get in the habit of bookmarking the email/memo/whatever that document a task or issue that you want to use as an example. Then it’s just a matter of reviewing those before the interview to bring the topic back into memory.

      Conflict also doesn’t have to be in real time and person-to-person. You can have a conflict with policy & procedure too, and you work it out by getting the policy changed, or applying for a waiver, or convincing the customer to go another way, etc.

      1. Gabriel Susan Lewis*

        Your idea of reflecting on Friday is a good one. I would just have to remember specific scenarios and how they were resolved and how I could potentially discuss them in a future interview.

    3. Not A Project Manager*

      Honestly, I do end up fudging my ‘tell me about a time’ answers a fair amount. That’s probably a bad answer and I hope other commenters have better suggestions – and I know even Alison has said these are good questions for the interviewer. But fairly often they are so specific, and I really can’t think of a great example on the fly, and answer “that has never happened to me” more than once seems awful – even once seems awful. So, I fudge it. I’ll use an example that was real and is as close as possible but I may edit the facts to better fit the requirements of the question, or sometimes say what I would have done if I was the decisionmaker, or something. Obviously don’t lie-lie in a way that would come out on a reference check.

      1. Gabriel Susan Lewis*

        I don’t think it’s likely that a lie to one of these questions would come out on a reference check, but it could happen. That said, I would never flat-out lie because I’m a terrible liar and I’m just not one to do it. I might stretch the truth or twist a story in a way that’s more favorable to me, but that’s about it. I also find that a lot of the questions are related to things that happen so frequently in my line of work that it’s hard for any one thing to stand out.

    4. GigglyPuff*

      The last time I was aggressively interviewing I was getting tripped up by these as well. I definitely do not think well off the top of my head. I eventually sat down and just started writing out topics of every single one I could think of, had been asked, or found online. I listed out the answers based on the topics: communication, conflict, external partners, internal partners, etc. I also ended up listing out all the projects I’d ever worked on, and some stuff on theories like management style, communication style, project management philosophy. Just took an entire weekend day and did it. I would then handwrite smaller notes before a phone interview so I could quick reference them. It worked so well, after a while I ended up not needing them anymore.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        This, exactly! I would also add in role-specific skills or strengths–things like attention to detail, negotiation, etc.

    5. Nesprin*

      At my institution we’re required to judge applicants based on the job description. i.e. if job description says:
      “works well with teams and individually”, we’re going to ask you:
      – about whether you prefer to work in a team or individually
      -about a time you worked on a team and something went wrong and how you fixed it
      -about how you’d solve a new problem by yourself.

      its worth reading the job description carefully and thinking of how someone would ask you for examples about the things listed.

    6. Percy Weasley*

      Since the problem is having to think of scenarios on the fly, the answer is to prep your answers ahead of the interview. Before the interview, take some time to think about an experience you can cite if they ask about conflict, and another one you can reference if they ask about leadership, etc. Think about what categories of questions you’ve had trouble with in the past and have some possible responses ready to go. It’s much easier to work these out outside of an actual interview!

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        This. You said you think you do better if you don’t overthink, but you just told us you can’t think of it in the moment so it isn’t overthinking to do some some prep.

  68. llama whisperer*

    TL;DR 1) what would you do in my shoes and 2) suggestions for potential scripts to negotiate a later start date?

    I… strongly dislike the company I work for. The day-to-day work I like, but the upper management and financial practices are horrendous. None of which are things I can change, so I keep my head down as best as I can to focus on my output. My direct manager has gone above and beyond in protecting us from most of the shenanigans at the company. They too, however, have had enough of the gaslighting and disrespect from upper management and are moving on to a new company. The lack of shield puts us much closer to the “action”, which I want to avoid. Due to the erratic and reactionary decision making of upper management, I know it’s in my best interest to leave the job on my own terms rather than be “blindsided” by a RIF, which has happened twice in the past year to others.

    Here’s where I feel like I’m stuck: I’m moving at the end of summer, and I would really like to have some time off to get settled, take a vacation without the lingering threat of “back to work”, and just enjoy time with my family (two niblings arriving within 3 weeks of each other!). Given that 1) the current job is fully remote, 2) the job market is rough and 3) said desire to have a break, I don’t feel like I should take a new job just yet, despite the alarm bells going off at my current position. Prior to my current role, I took a leap of faith and quit my previous position without something lined up in advance. I ended up taking four months off to recharge, and would love to have even a fraction of that time again before starting my next position (but it feels almost irresponsible in today’s climate).

    I’m applying and have had some preliminary interviews. None have progressed to the final stage yet, but I’m still hesitant to accept something right now if/when something pans out.

    I know for something like the vacation, I could say “I have non-refundable plans for X weeks, will this be able to be accommodated through paid or unpaid leave” before accepting an offer. I feel like negotiating a start date beyond the standard 2-4 weeks from getting an offer, on the other hand, is trickier.

    Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any suggestions for negotiating a later start date?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I changed jobs a few years ago, and two of my friends (in a different industry) also changed jobs around that time. All of us asked for a start date roughly 6 weeks post-offer, and all three companies said “yes.” A few caveats:

      – this was in peak “great resignation/great job-swap” times, so companies were (in general) more desperate than workers
      – two of the companies were small and start-up-ish, so they were generally on board with having a new employee start after a month off of work
      – one of the companies was large and established, and not happy in the moment to have the start date pushed so far out (but a few years later I don’t think anyone even remembers that the start date was so “late”)

      I think in all three cases, we asked “does [date] work as a start date?” No further explanation, just ask the question and wait for the response (that’s how mine went, I assume it was similar for both of my friends).

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      Just a consideration, instead of taking time off prior to staring the new job, what if you plan on taking an extended vacation prior to leaving your current job? Maybe schedule a two week break right before you give your resignation.

  69. Qwerty*

    Anyone have experience using a ReMarkable e-reader/tablet at work? I’ve been debating getting one but would like to hear pro/cons from various jobs. I usually write a lot of notes on paper but can rarely find the relevant page later. Plus I’m going to have a lot more digital documents to read over the next few months. Some former coworkers had the first version and liked it but I’m not in touch anymore to ask follow up questions

    1. Fluff*

      I have a Supernote and love it. I also use paper (for my to dos, dates, etc.).

      My e-tablet is mainly for meeting notes, learning, etc. I like that I can quickly find the last notes and my interpretation of the meeting. It has helped me avoid the infinite sheets of paper, paper pads, big sticky notes of various notes.

      I did / do still have a learning curve on how to organize my notebooks and notes. It gets better though. I also use it for reading pdfs too. I do not have my email on it since – welp – I stink at email and need a boundary.

      The main issues I have – forgetting to make sure it is fully charges for the meetings AND losing the pen. I recommend buying a few extra pens or tips. The writing feeling on these tablets also gets better and better with age.

      Hope that helps.

  70. Chocolate Teapot*

    After the question this week about complementing a woman on her “pretty” name, I had a similar situation at work yesterday.

    An external trainer was in the office for the day and asked the participants to introduce themselves and their experience with the topic. When it got to me, the trainer said “Oh, my wife is called Chocolate Teapot as well.”

    1. Rara Avis*

      That doesn’t seem so strange to me. I’ve done that plenty of times when introduced to a new person — “That’s my kid’s/husband’s/mom’s name” — it seems like a not harmful way to connect/help remember the name.

      1. Coverage Associate*

        Just don’t do what I once did when meeting a coworker, which was say, “Your name is Mary and you are tall and thin. My sister’s name is Mary, but she is short and thin.” It really helped me remember the name, but wasn’t appropriate to say out loud.

  71. Lucy P*

    To tell or not to tell?

    Hubby and I frequently eat dinner at a very small, family run, neighborhood restaurant on weekends. There’s just one waitress and one cook on those days.

    About a year ago the restaurant hired a new waitress, Mimi, to work just Saturdays for the lunch and dinner shifts. Over the course of time we became politely friendly.

    Mimi would often complain that there weren’t a lot of customers on the weekend, and thus she didn’t make a lot of money. Often she would say, “You and Mr. Smith are the only tables I’ve had all day.” We had no way of knowing whether or not she was telling the truth. She would also complain that it was her only source of income. (She had about a dozen different week-day jobs in the course of a year that never seemed to work out.)

    Recently, the restaurant started closing early on Saturdays due to carnival parades in our area. So, hubby and I switched to eating lunch there instead of dinner. The first thing we noticed was that there always at least 1-2 tables of diners who got there before us. Then, as other people came in, she seemingly pushed them away.

    We saw multiple couples walk in the door, get seated, and then Mimi would tell them, “We stopped serving breakfast already.” It’s a small enough place that you can hear what everyone says. No one asked for a breakfast menu. Plus, there are certain breakfast items that are served all day.

    Once, a group of 10 came in for lunch. She told them she couldn’t serve them because they hadn’t made reservations. When they left, she immediately realized what she had done and then ran outside to beg them to come back. Once she began taking their orders, she started saying that they were out of certain items without even checking for stock (she does this to us often). One by one you could hear this group changing their orders to things that she knew were in stock. For instance, almost half of them changed from soft drink or wine to just tap water.

    When other people come in, she’ll grumble under her breath, but then she does serve them.

    This doesn’t affect us directly, but someone with such a bad personality and bad work habit can really affect the reputation of a small business. I was going to ask if we should alert the owners about this Mimi, but Mimi messaged me during the week to let me know she had been fired. Had she not been fired, do you think these were issue worth bringing up?

    1. Rick Tq*

      Yes, and you should have told them what was going on months ago.

      Mimi was destroying the business with her antics.

      1. Lucy P*

        We did bring up things that affected us personally. The problems that were evident with other customers during the lunch shift, were not evident at dinner time. (Mostly because we eat an early dinner and there a lot fewer people at that time) Thus, we’ve only seen her treating others badly over the last 4 weeks.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      Person who complained about lack of customers later seen pushing away customers? There’s no way anyone with an ounce of good management wouldn’t have caught on and fired her anyway.
      It wouldn’t have been unreasonable for you to mention, but it’s not on you to bring it up either. If there are only 2 other people who work there and it’s as small (and audible) as you indicate, they already knew.

    3. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      I feel compelled to say, as Mimi has your contact details, and I have worked with people like Mimi in the past – avoid being drawn into her world in any way! Or one day you may wake up to find she now lives in your spare bedroom.
      I hope the restaurant finds a replacement with more awareness of what generates their wages.

  72. Madame Desmortes*

    The paperwork has come through for my promotion into a position where I will manage other professionals for the first time. (I’ve managed interns before.)

    I want to thank Alison and the whole AAM commentariat for making this change a whole lot less scary and overwhelming than it could be! I’m already setting up 1:1s with the folks I will be managing, I’m reading the documentation for the manager side of the review system, I know what kind of demeanor will be expected of me and am prepared to provide it.

    Will I still make mistakes? Sure. I’m new to this. But I know the AAM community has my back and will help me recover from them.

  73. Beleaguered L&D*

    Any ideas on building psychological safety *after* mistrust/disengagement has set in? I’ve found lots of literature/resources on how to proactively *build* psychological safety, but am looking for tips on what to do if it’s lacking due to ongoing or historical issues that could take years to resolve. Thanks!

    1. RagingADHD*

      You can’t actually build psychological safety if the issues are ongoing, because it isn’t real. You’d just be creating an illusion to get people to let their guard down, which is more fuel for legitimate mistrust.

      It has to start with authentic change in the organization or culture that acknowledges and actively remediates the underlying issues. If that is beyond your power, then the best you can do is put your cards on the table and be as transparent as possible with your team to show that you understand that the things that are happening are wrong, and exactly where the limits of your ability are to protect them and advocate for them.

      That can earn you, personally, their trust to some extent if you bear it out over time, but if there has been a negative history, most people probably aren’t going to trust you until that protection / advocacy has been tested and held firm.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yes, this sounds similar to the employers that pop up on this site from time to time who confuse the causality of “close teams are vulnerable with each other.” They think they can force people to be vulnerable and that will lead to the team being close, when really the closeness has to come first and vulnerability is an effect.

        Some past posts in this vein (about vulnerability, not psychological safety) are:

        my boss wants us to all share our mental health needs – at every meeting from June 18, 2018

        my manager makes us do mental-health surveys every day from July 22, 2020

        we had to share our “shadow sides” and “be more vulnerable” at a meeting from October 19, 2022

    2. Amber Rose*

      Repairing historical issues is one thing, but anything ongoing will immediately undermine almost anything you want to do.

      Anyways psychological safety is a massive, massive category. Like, I’m wrapping up a three month course on just that. So you could probably try and focus on areas not currently being impacted by anything ongoing and represent it as the first steps to a longer, larger effort at change. But you’re still going to struggle with buy-in because it will come across as “bread and circuses” style improvements.

    3. Nesprin*

      You have to fix the problems that are causing mistrust, demonstrate changes in the culture such that those problems won’t arise again, apologize and acknowledge what caused the issues, and even then you may not get there.

    4. allathian*

      It’s a futile effort. You can’t build psychological safety. If it exists, it’s the result of a good workplace culture where expectations are clear and consistent rather than arbitrary, and where any conflicts are resolved in a way that allows everyone to feel they’ve been heard even when they don’t like the final decision, and where it’s okay to disagree with management, at least up to a point, and where employees don’t have to pretend they agree with managerial decisions just to keep their jobs. Complying with a decision isn’t the same thing as agreeing with it.

      Psychological safety doesn’t mean that you get to bring your whole self to work, but it does mean that people from different backgrounds and with different life experiences can work well together. It doesn’t mean that there’ll never be any conflicts, but that employees can trust that any conflicts will be resolved and that unprofessional behavior like bullying or harassment won’t be tolerated.

      Psychological safety also requires that employees feel safe telling their manager when some issue in their personal life means that they need more flexibility than usual, or that they need some accommodations to work effectively. Requests for accommodations are treated without judgment and in a spirit of cooperation to find a solution that works for both the employee and the employer.

      I’m not saying that this is at all easy, but I’m lucky enough to work in an organization that’s had a pretty high score for psychological safety for as long as it’s been measured, maybe the last 10 years or so, and it’s been improving year on year, even during Covid lockdowns, so clearly we’re doing something right.

  74. Fed*

    Any other Feds just refreshing the news over and over again to find out if the Senate has voted on the budget yet?

  75. Sad Rabbit*

    I just broke up with my partner and I’m having a hard time staying focused at work. I work for a CPA so we’re busier than usual, and during tax season my job is full of interruptions: more phone calls, more tasks from my boss with varying urgency and importance, and more people coming in and out of the office.

    Any advice for keeping my focus and staying motivated at work when I’m sad?

    Additional complications: I have (medicated) ADHD. I don’t have a private office. I can’t realistically step away from my desk to take a walk or cry in my car because I need to be by the phone. My desk faces the window (yay) but the weather is dreary (boo).

    1. RagingADHD*

      You need the classic post “how to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed.” It’s a very useful checklist of concrete actions you can take that really do help from the outside-in rather than trying to work from a painful/chaotic inside out.

      It’s on Captain Awkward, post #450.

    2. Always Tired*

      probably unhealthy and likely unhelpful, but I find my ADHD makes me very good at compartmentalization. I just go “oh no, we can’t have that breakdown right now, but I can fit it in Sunday after the grocery shopping. We’ll deal with these feelings then. For now, get in the box.” I find just being able to say to myself, “here is a concrete time we’ll deal with that” makes is easier to charge on in other areas. Also, at chaotic times I like to use either a white board or sticky notes for my to do list, because it makes it faster to rearrange than a notebook, but it’s also not tucked away like a word doc or reminders app that doesn’t stay on screen.

      Remember, you’ll grow back healthier and fuller after this cut, just like your houseplants. This is a temporary setback, you only have another month to go until tax day.

    3. Ttt*

      May not work for you but in hard times, work can be a refuge. A full-on focus on your work can be a daily eight hour respite from sad and bad feelings. After I had a very bad loss, I went in to work on weekends too for a few months just to give my grief a “break”.

  76. froodle*

    Can I get some input on salary uplift from UK-based readers?

    I started my current role in October 2022, on a salary of GBP £ 30k

    I got an annual uplift of 3% in April 2023, to 30,900

    Then I got a retention uplift of 5.18% to 32,500 in Oct 2023 (because I was about to walk after my company let a notoriously abusive coworker get, well, notoriously abusive with me)

    Because of that, I didn’t get a COL uplift in April 2024 at all

    This year I got an uplift of 1.5% to £33,000 as of April 2025

    I’m told that my performance is good, and in a little over 2 and a half years I’ve acheived a total uplift of 10%

    But tbh that 1.5% stung. At this point, I’m not keeping pace with inflation (about 4% for the year last I checked) and I’ve achieved a lot in the last twelve months, in my opinion way more than 1.5% worth

    A lot of AAM salary is US-based, so I was hoping to get some feedback from my fellow GBP peeps on whether that level of uplift tracks with what you’re experiencing

    Many thanks!

    1. PX*

      Mmm sounds like a pretty stingy company to me. Are these clearly performance based raises (as in after your annual review)? if so, is there clear guidance how are these calculated or given to staff?

      1. froodle*

        they are given after the annual review,but they’re very opaque in how it’s calculated – they tell you its based on your performance but also company performance, department / team performance, whether the company (global) met its budget, the “pot” for each dept, and the local labour market.

        Which considering the way they do it is “fill out this from, give it to your manager” then “six minute video call with your bosses bosses boss where they tell you your total”, makes it really hard to evaluate

    2. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      What pay would they have to offer to replace you if you left tomorrrow? Is the company failing economically? Are your colleagues also falling behind the inflation rate? Did the CEO get a good bonus this year? If you look at it structurally, rather than personally, it will be useful information for you to find out what you might earn elsewhere. And it’s always psychologically freeing to have your resume/cv up to date !

  77. Darrowby 2297*

    I need help finding an old letter here because I cannot seem to find it myself and a friend I told about it doesn’t believe me. I’ve tried every permutation of search I can but it never turns up (although yes, I know, search engines these days are garbage). It was from a woman who was angry that a medical office or hospital wouldn’t hire her and she kept writing or calling the HR person, I think, about getting hired; she was returning to the work force after raising kids. She was indignant that a person who had been hired there didn’t have medical office experience but had worked in a tire shop.

    My friend, who was already doubting me, totally disbelieved me when I said that she responded to commenters with “I am a WIFE and MOTHER” and was combative throughout.

    Did I dream this? Was it on some other site? This is really the only advice site I read basically, but maybe I’m misremembering it from when I edited an advice writer for a big online magazine.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Are you thinking of “employer won’t give me a fair chance to interview” from May 16, 2012? I’ll link to the full post in a reply, but it starts off with:

      I am a middle-aged mom who is trying her hardest to re-enter the workforce. I worked part-time when my youngest was in high school three years ago for a year and half, but my job got eliminated. I went back to college for a year and received my certificate as a Medical Secretary.

      It looks like she commented in the comments section as “Anonymous” and it’s a bit hard to follow because that was back when the site allowed multiple people to comment as “Anonymous,” but I did see at least one comment that included the phrase “I am a wife and a mother.”

      2. Hlao-roo*

        I perused the comments a little more and I’m confident this is the post you remember. Also, the letter-writer did come back about a week later and commented once as “OP from this post” with an apology, so I think there was some personal growth in the end!

        1. Darrowby 2297*

          Yes!!! Thank you so much, I felt like I was losing my mind! My friend never did hiring himself, all of the firms he worked at had HR to do that, and so he just didn’t believe that someone would continually try to apply in a situation like that. Now I can finally settle this discussion! Thank you so much.

          2. Polly Hedron*

            And I thank you, Darrowby, for resurrecting this fascinating old discussion, which I had not seen before.

            How did your friend react to it?

    4. WellRed*

      Recognized this right away! Look forward to rereading thanks to Hlao-Roos amazing linking skills.

  78. workerbee*

    I manage a great team but we’re in the middle of bad news, being told to be back in the office, moving to a smaller office, hiring delays, etc. I have advocated for better but higher administration (as in the VPs/CEO) want this so I have not had any luck. I know delivering unpleasant news is part of the job, but I’m having a serious case of feeling like the totally ineffectual manager. How to get out of this?

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      I’m sorry, there is not getting out of it. Leaders have to lead. That is the job. And it often involves in leading your team through difficult things that you may not agree with. But you can help your need accept what what is happening, why and figuring out how to make the best of it. Focus on the benefits of being back in the office and take steps to maximize those benefits.

    2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Sometimes the only way out is through. This isn’t about you being ineffectual unless you pretend these things aren’t happening and don’t prepare your team for the reality. (I feel your pain–dealing with looming budget cuts and the bad federal news and impact of all of the above on my team and I wish I could pretend it away but I can’t.)

      Can any of it be sequenced so it isn’t all at once? Is that a case you can make to the higher-ups so the move to the smaller office happens but the RTO is later? Then you can say to your team, “These are the things that need to happen. Here’s the sequence of events.”

  79. The Shots*

    I’m the General Manager of a largely female team. Two of my employees are very openly on weight loss shots. They both started around the beginning of the year. One of them is quite literally wasting away in front of us. She’s suddenly stopped doing her hair and makeup, and most startling, she’s started rocking back and forth constantly. I’m not sure she knows she is doing it or can control it. She rocks back and forth in her chair and when she’s standing up. It’s noticeable and scary.

    The other one is miserable. She had an active social life before the shots that revolved around eating and drinking with others, and now that she has no appetite, and says she can’t drink on the shots, her social life has disappeared. She mopes around all day everyday and has generally gone from Tigger energy and attitude level to Eyeore.

    I’m not sure how to handle this, especially with the employee who is rocking back and forth. Advice?

    1. Balanceofthemis*

      This may be above the pay grade of this commentariat. I’m not sure there really is anything you can do, especially for the on who is rocking, you’re right that she may not have control over it. You could ask her if she’s ok when it happens and let her know you’re concerned, but it’s not necessarily a work issue. If the attitude/general downess and complaints about their social life is affecting their work, you can bring that up and let them know that their work day can’t revolve around that, but you can’t fix their personal lives.

      I’ve had friends go on these shots and have to stop because of the side effects, so I have an idea of what you’re seeing, but, unfortunately, as their manager, there is a limit to what you can do.

        1. Balanceofthemis*

          I hope I didn’t come off as callous, because this does suck, and it’s great that you care and want to help. Unfortunately, you can’t tell them to stop doing the shots. So just be a supportive boss when they need you.

    2. Hyaline*

      This has to be so hard to watch, but ultimately…I don’t know that there’s anything you can do outside of addressing work-related issues…and there don’t seem to be any? If either complains or confides in you, encouraging them to raise these issues with their doctor is probably advisable, but outside of that…ooof.

    3. WellRed*

      I have a feeling we’re at the tip of the iceberg if letters about these sorts of things. I think you can express concern once or direct to EAP or whatever.

    4. WFH4VR*

      Does the rocking person have enough paid sick time to use a few days to get reassessed by her doctor? Could you suggest that to her?

      1. The Shots*

        She is older and lives with her very involved (and sweet) adult daughter, so that feels really over the line. I just hate to see it at work, and it is awkward.

    5. Always Tired*

      depression, tiredness, anxiety, and jitteriness are all potential side effects of semiglutides. There isn’t much you can do besides mention to the rocker that you’ve noticed some changes in behavior and ask if she is okay.

      I have a friend taking one and she is miserable, dealing with a lot of side effects, but feels that the weight loss is worth it and will eventually make her happy. We’re all worried about her, but it isn’t our choice to make.

    6. Jobbyjob*

      Ok! This seems to be a fun new trend of anti-GLP1 piling on. Yes there can be some side effects, including tiredness and others. For most folks these are transient and manageable. Why don’t you frame it to yourself as “my team members have started a new medication critical to their health and are having some minor adverse effects how can I support them” as opposed to what it looks like here which is super judgy and like the medication is vanity/optional?

      1. The Shots*

        Ok! You sound like someone who isn’t in my situation watching it play out, so I’m giving you a ton of grace!

        With the employee who is rocking back and forth uncontrallby (read that again slowly) it doesn’t seem minor at all. She has to work alone a lot, and as her manager, I’m scared to death I’m going to find her passed out or dead. Categorizing whats happening to her as minor would so completely out of touch. It’s not minor. It’s scary as all hell. You can take your judgment allegation and shove it. I care about this woman and I don’t want to find her dead. She didn’t have 30 pounds to lose, and looks like she’s dying. Don’t accuse me of judging, that’s a load of shit.

        For the other, I’m not worried about her dying. It’s more minor. But I have been accommodating her for over three months in very large ways. Changing the complete flow of the business kind of ways. Ways I’m not going to argue with someone on the internet about. But you are so so wrong.

  80. Amber Rose*

    Since we’re now several hundred comments in, I just want to say: I am really, really, really, really burned out on school. I’ve finished three of my six classes and two more are ending next weekend, but I’m just so exhausted and the idea of working on my assignments for yet another weekend makes me want to cry.

    As I thought, I’m really not cut out for education programs. I hate this so much.

    The one bright spot is that, in reverse of what I’ve been told not to do, I am “plagiarizing” my assignment to improve my workplace documentation (I wasn’t supposed to use my work stuff for school). I ended up liking the format I made for class enough that I got my boss’s go ahead to replace all our work stuff with it.

    2. My Brain is Exploding*

      Go ahead and cry! It’s understandable. Then take a little break and promise yourself a little reward when you are finished with your weekend assignments. This is going to get you to a better place. You can do it!

  81. Blue Spoon*

    How late is too late to ask for feedback on a hiring process? A few months ago, I applied for a position at another branch of my organization. I know that I was a frontrunner for the position, to the point that the organization’s director told me multiple times (once before the position was filled, once after) that she had wanted me for it, but ultimately it went to another person at that branch.

    Typically when an internal candidate for a position doesn’t get it, the manager who made the final decision will let them know by calling them, which can often include a brief explanation of why the decision was ultimately made. The manager over this position did not do this, instead sending a pre-generated two-sentence email saying I didn’t get the position through our hiring website a couple of days after my interview. I can only assume that either this manager is unaware of the usual conventions (he is relatively new and also had me schedule my interview in a way other than the way the organization typically does) or there was something about me or that I said in that he can’t or doesn’t want to talk about that tanked my candidacy.

    My organization is having our bi-annual all-staff training day next month, which means that staff from all branches will be in the same building for an entire day. Would it be odd if I approached him during that time and asked if we could talk about what factors went into his decision? The position was in a specialty I am interested in pursuing, so I would like to know if there are any skills I should be developing.

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think considering it’s an internal role you were applying for, you would be OK to ask. I can’t tell if you’re talking about asking for a meeting to discuss the hiring process or asking him to discuss it then and there. I would think the former would be better: those in-person training days can be very busy.

      1. Blue Spoon*

        I was hoping for a casual conversation; I think a formal meeting might be a bit over-the-top. I’m good either way, though. Mostly I just want to be sure I didn’t accidentally say something that was an immediate deal-breaker during the interview.

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          Depending on how many candidates there were and how much other stuff is currently occupying the hiring manager’s brain space, they might need to review notes from the interview or something. I know I’d appreciate a heads up before having that kind of discussion, as a hiring manager.

    2. Qwerty*

      I find it better to ask how to strengthen your candidacy for similar positions. It is easier to have a productive forward looking conversation and the question sounds more positive.

      Telling a candidate why you didn’t hire them can be a minefield, even if it is an internal candidate. Wording is really tough on both sides – for you, you’d be trying to thread the needle of getting feedback without sounding like you are questioning or arguing about the decision (for example, asking what factors went into the decision could sound adversarial depending on tone and body language)

      Also, before you talk to this manager – do you have a reason to think something “tanked [your] candidacy” vs someone else ended up being a better fit? If you go into the conversation with the manager think he’s against you, it won’t be a productive conversation. Hiring managers don’t get to hire everyone who’d make a good candidate, they have to narrow it down to one and sometimes that can be a tough decision if there is a good or evenly matched candidate pool.

      1. Blue Spoon*

        That particular branch was being run by an infamously toxic manager until a couple of years ago. The manager who interviewed me is the former toxic manager’s replacement (he was an external hire, so he only knows about the toxic manager by reputation). During my interview, he mentioned that the branch was in a transitional period, and I made a reference to the toxic manager–something I thought was neutral but looking back could have been read as negative (something along the lines of “I remember how Toxic Manager was”. That’s the thing I think may have tanked my interview and why I’m a little hesitant to bring it up, because if it was that he probably wouldn’t want to tell me.

    3. Goldie*

      I think it would be smarter to email about it then ask him at a large event. If he can give you feedback, he can organize his thoughts. Any manager should be very careful about providing this kind of feedback because someone could use it in a lawsuit later. Giving feedback off the cuff, 6 months later is risky and might not be accurate.

  82. Omelas Employee*

    What do I tell prospective employers when I start interviewing?
    I (25F) was hired as a temp manager for an org and ended up inheriting a team with one employee who as since become the org’s biggest HR case (employee was already escalating before I arrived but has continued to do so and not backed down at all). Leadership decided that I was not the ball-buster they need to keep this employee in line and I am so new to management that they don’t have time to train me to become that. They are not going to hire me perm when my 6 month temp contract ends. My supervisor is saying I was great in every other way and that it is only because of this escalated HR case they need someone with more experience who will protect the org in case of lawsuit.

    1. KitKat*

      I mean if you were hired as a temp it’s pretty normal not to be hired on perm (maybe someone was on leave or the project the team was supporting was temporary) so you really can say nothing if that’s what you prefer!

      If you feel you have to say something you can do it very briefly/generally, “They decided for the long-term role they needed someone with specific experience handling difficult / legally-sensitive personnel issues.”

    2. RagingADHD*

      You tell them you were on contract, and the contract is up.

      That’s not a reflection on you at all and doesn’t require further explanation.

  83. Cherry*

    This is late in the day, it might not get seen.

    I have a new boss who will not make decisions, even if I give him a very synopsis and reasonings. He’ll turn it around and fire a bunch of questions at me and I feel like I’m being quizzed, to make me guess at the decision. There are lot of other reasons why he’s a terrible manager, but this is one I have to deal with often. Overall he can talk the talk in front of his boss, but he can’t walk the walk.

    For example: I’ll say, “Bart, are you okay to turn off program X because A,B,C. This is the impact.” And he’ll say, “well what do you think we should do? What are you going to look at, or use what KPIs to come to that decision?”

    I’m already swamped and I hate guessing games. If I’m asking you a question, I want a clear answer, or some other thought that doesn’t make me guess. It’s tiring.

    1. Strive to Excel*

      Give him a decision instead of a question. Instead of saying “Are you OK to turn off program X”, tell him “Based on A, B, & C, I’m going to turn off program X. Please let me know if you’d like to proceed differently.” Include your reasonings as needed.

      1. Hyaline*

        Yes—I was curious if he responded differently to “I am planning to do X, please advise if this is an issue” kind of phrasing. I mean, he sounds inept, but if he will just sign off on decisions and you don’t have to do twenty questions, at least it’s less of a PITA for you?

      2. crookedglasses*

        I think this is the move. It almost sounds like he’s trying to coach you through weighing different considerations and looking at different angles to make a decision. Framing it this way might help. This also feels like something you could broach in a 1:1 – that you’ve noticed that he’ll respond in X or Y way when you’re really hoping for A or B guidance, and is there anything you can do to make it clearer what kind of input you need from him?

    2. RagingADHD*

      He sounds very late to the party. Have you discussed with him that if you are requesting approval, it’s because you have already decided this is the correct course of action?

      I wonder whether your review / decisionmaking process is something he even understands. Is he aware of what you’re working on from week to week so he knows that you are reviewing the KPIs to prepare for these decisions? Does he want to be included earlier on in the process?

    3. Decidedly Me*

      I’m pretty known for asking “what do you think we should do?” when my reports ask me questions. It’s not that I don’t know what to do, but I’m trying to teach my people to think critically and feel comfortable with decision making that’s in scope for their role. However, I also tell them that if there is a need for an immediate answer from me (ex: time-sensitive issue) to just tell me that. So, two options to try out: come with your own suggestion or be clear that you just need an answer in that moment.

    4. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      I had a boss who wanted us to bring solutions, not problems. So with your example that would be, “Bart, I’ve reviewed our use of program X. I recommend we turn it off because A, B, C (which should already be the factors you used for the decision). I reviewed D, E, F and they don’t point to enough return for it to be worth it to keep maintaining X.”

      In other words, give everything you thought of plus the recommendation. If you think you can, I’d go on to say, “My plan is to do that in two weeks unless you have any other factors I should take into consideration.” This way he doesn’t have to ask what you think should be done–you’re telling him. He can agree or send you back for more analysis with some guidance as to what factors you didn’t address that he needs to know more about.

      And yes, he may ask you some questions! That’s not a guessing game. He wants to know what you understand about the issue and the resolution. He may be someone who springboards from what others say to add his own ideas. Or maybe he wants you to step up to a higher level of decisiveness on your end. Or maybe he’s new enough in the role or the organization that the way you answer is telling him what kinds of things have been important for this type of decision in the past.

      You want him to think in a different way than what he’s signaling pretty clearly works for him. That’s not likely to be a winning approach.

  84. foureyedlibrarian*

    A coworker (higher up than me on the hierarchy) constantly misgenders one of our colleagues (on my level of the hierarchy). She does it while speaking and in writing. We correct her, my colleague corrects her. Nonetheless, she still misgenders them. When my colleague brought it up another time, she said it is due to illness induced aphasia. However, she never misgenders anyone else and has not said this was the reason to any one else.

    Now, regardless of the why she is doing the misgendering, how would you approach this? I don’t feel like I can talk to her but I also don’t know if I feel comfortable telling our straight, cis boss. (Side note: I use she/they pronouns and my coworker only refers to me as she)

    1. Pepper*

      It sounds like she is miss-gendering on purpose. I wonder if there are any cis allies who could just do some sort of subtle statement quasi-correcting and phrasing the miss-gendered? For example, if the opportunity arises,
      “I see that [using correct pronoun] really hit the nail on the head with [using correct pronoun] ….. That is really [insightful/helpful/etc.].

    2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      What would it take to get over the discomfort of telling your boss? Have they demonstrated that they would dismiss this or react negatively? Do they themselves refer to you sometimes as “they” in addition to “she”, if you know? That would mean to me that they’re trying and they care.

      The higher-up is doing it to two people–you and your colleague. Since you give people the option and she consistently chooses only one of the options, putting that with the other person it feels like a pattern. But I’m wondering about whether she has something specific against this person if she’s able to accurately gender others (by which I assume you mean that she’s using their preferred pronouns, but not this one person’s).

      If your workplace says it’s a welcoming place and has some evidence of trying to make that true, you can refer to that in talking with your boss. “Our organization says it values making everyone feel they belong. There’s a pattern of Coworker consistently misgendering Colleague and she also avoids using “they” for me, which I’ve indicated is one of my preferred pronouns. The two together feel like a pattern. I’ve corrected her on Colleague’s pronouns, Colleague has corrected her, and she continues to do it. Do you have any advice for me in how to handle this?” That’s their opportunity to say they’ll do something or to in fact give you some advice.

  85. anony for this*

    How do you get over being passed over for a promotion?

    I have been in my current position for about 12 years (with one midlevel promotion at the halfway mark on the same team.) I waited 6 years of that for a new senior-level position to open up on my specific team, because I liked the people and liked the work, and didn’t want to leave it or them. Finally the promotion opened up, I put my whole effort into the interview– and even though my actual skills in the job were rated the highest, and I have significantly more experience, someone else on the team got the job.

    I’m not interested in litigating the hiring process– the other person who got selected will be fine. However, my personal motivation has never been lower, and I suspect this whole thing has triggered some actual depression. I have no desire to be in the office, I’m finding myself avoiding everyone involved in the hiring process, and I’m holding back tears at least once a day. I’m consumed with a desperate desire to just *get out,* I think because I’m embarrassed at having failed publicly when I know many people expected I would get the job, coupled with a very bad case of burnout. That being said, the pay and health insurance are solid, and with job market issues looming I’m reluctant to give up a steady paycheck. Normally I would try and move elsewhere within my workplace, but we’re impacted by a hiring freeze that has prevented even internal transfers. I’ve started some external job searching, but it’s a niche specialty and there’s not a lot of jobs in my area, so it won’t be immediate.

    In the meantime– how do I keep this from affecting my work output? How do I get over myself?

    1. Balanceofthemis*

      Take a vacation! Seriously, you need to disconnect and relax. After you come back, do your job, don’t go above and beyond if you don’t want to. No one should expect it after you get passed over like that.

    3. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Hey! You are terribly disappointed! It is okay to be feeling like this. You need to be kind and comforting to yourself now – and to deal with the burnout as well. So – a week off, lots of good nutrition, fresh air, funny movies, stargazing, checking out 3 new coffee shops, having a chat with your local librarian about what’s on in your neighbourhood, visiting a local tourist spot and talking with tourists, eating an apple while looking at some trees, wearing really comfy clothes and footwear, and so on.
      It’s also okay to tell your colleagues that obviously you did feel disappointed, who wouldn’t, but that you know that (person) will do a good job and you have confidence in them.
      Best wishes to you- here’s hoping you can recover from the burnout now, and that interesting possibilities will open up for you

  86. so pumped*

    I know I’m late, but I am so excited; I get to step sideways out of my managerial role into an individual contributor role, and still stay at the same level! I had never wanted to manage people, but due to circumstances ended up in the role and have been trying to make it work for almost 3 years. It’s clearly not working, my neurodivergence doesn’t play well with supervising others’ work, I am constantly stressed, exhausted, missing deadlines, giving out conflicting information to my staff, and generally not an effective worker in any way. I would not have been surprised to see letters from my staff on this site. I took a risk, I tried something new, I determined it is not for me, AND that’s ok! I now have the option to move to an equal individual contributor role at a higher level, which isn’t something that existed at my org before. I’ll get back the parts of my work that I enjoy doing.

    It’s been a long time since I had anything to celebrate or look forward to at work, but now I am eagerly awaiting the day that I can say “hey, not your manager anymore, just a higher level employee who will likely direct you on projects from time to time.”

  87. ContractorQ*

    I am managing a contractor for the first time and he missed two deadlines. I was kind about it the first time but told him that he was in violation of his contract the second. He is now saying that he needs me to give an estimate of how long a project will take when giving him the assignment and if I do that he will not miss deadlines. This is a contract position as a research analyst and he is writing reports to a template. This seems like an insane request to me since all the companies with whom I’ve signed contracts estimated the billable hours based on the SOW in advance and I never went to them saying “this is a project that will take 30 hours” I just said, “this is a project that includes x and will need to answer questions y and z.” I need a gut check– is it a crazy request that I should provide an estimate of how long it will take the contractor to do his work? I feel like it is just further proof that this contractor is incompetent.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, tell him that all other contractors for your organisation estimate their own hours in advance and it is his responsibility, not yours.

      He sounds inexperienced too, at least as a contractor: I doubt he had a previous contract where he was coddled to this extent; maybe he was a regular employee before, or a student or intern.

      You could check with your manager if there is a process to go through before you are able to terminate his contract (unless you know already) Then, I suggest you give him a final warning that missing any further deadlines will result in this.

  88. ADHD Job Hunting Tips*

    I am job hunting and having a hard time keeping myself on track. And I swing between getting overwhelmed at all the things I should be doing, and being way bored. I think I also have undiagnosed ADHD. Any tips?

    1. Always Tired*

      I have diagnosed ADHD! I treated it like a job/quest. To succeed/hit my targets, I needed to apply to 40 jobs a week. Some days I managed 3, some days I hit my stride and did 20! Just really depended. I also frequently would go spend 3 hours at the coffee shop. Specifically set a time limit, 2 drinks and a pastry, can’t eat pastry until 2 apps are done, can’t have second drink until 5 apps are done. Little prizes along the way.

      Also I had a check list per application. (1) find a posting that looks like a fit, (2) check glass door to see how heinous a place it is to work (3) add the Company to my doc document so I knew date I had applied, brief notes I took for the cover letter, and could double check/take notes at a moment’s notice for follow up calls, (4) check their website so I understand what they do, (5) take no more than 10 minutes writing/editing a cover letter specific to the company, (6) save a PDF of the posting and my cover letter in my job hunting folder as “Company_Posting” and “Company_CL.” Sounds like a lot, but in total I usually spent no more than 20 minutes per application this way. (I am a fast writer after having been an History major). Just having a rote “I know what to do, and how much time it should take” really helped. Also make time to exercise, and give yourself a routine. If you are unemployed, 40 apps a week is reasonable. If you have a job you just hate, just do 2 a night to spite that boss. That’s still 10 a week. Just set very reasonable targets each time you sit down.

  89. Sparrow*

    I’m running into this recurring issue at work where people keep interpreting my questions very differently than I intended, and I can’t figure out why this keeps happening! A few recent examples:

    1) I messaged my boss, “I have 2/15 down as the final deadline for X—is that correct?” My boss responded with a solid paragraph about how the deadline can’t be pushed back and I need to finish it by 2/15. Okay, that’s fine! I wasn’t trying to move it, I just wanted to verify what the deadline is!

    2) I was organizing a large event hosted in our main office. I told our facility manager I wanted to include parking info on the invites and asked what I should say, and she launched into a chiding response about how we simply can’t afford to pay for all of the visitors to park in the adjacent garage. I never said we should! I work at a satellite office in another city, so I wasn’t sure what the best parking options near the main office were!

    This happens both over email/messages and in face-to-face conversation, and it’s happened with most of the people I work with at least once. I have also seen other people on the receiving end of this, so I don’t think the issue is purely something I’m doing wrong. When I try to pre-empt this by including a full explanation of why I’m asking something in the initial question, people seem put off and react as if I’m being weirdly defensive.

    Maybe the most frustrating part of all this is that I’m often unable to get the other person to understand that I was never asking what they think I was asking. E.g. I asked my boss if she wanted me to shift my schedule to work evenings for a week-long event we were doing, since she’d asked me to do that for similar events before. She responded with something like “Well I really need you for coverage during your regular hours, but if you really want to shift your schedule that badly I guess we can see if we can make it work”. No amount of further explanation was able to convince her that I was not requesting that and I really just wanted to know what my work schedule would be.

    Even if nobody has advice for how to fix this, I’d love to just hear honest takes on if this sounds like I’m doing something wrong or not.

    1. Rainy*

      If you are accurately reporting the content of your communications with your colleagues, no, it’s not you.

      I wonder if there’s someone else in the office or maybe a previous person in your role who was bad at their job or a bad communicator and everyone who works/worked with them has developed a weird twitch about it?

      Obviously you’ve tried overexplaining yourself and it makes it worse, so I wouldn’t do that again. Are they less defensive/combative if you speak with them in person or on the phone?

      1. Sparrow*

        Re: your final question: I haven’t noticed any form of communication being better or worse for this issue. I’ve dealt with this via email, messaging system, phone call, and in-person meetings.

        However, your mention that this could be caused by someone being a bad communicator made me realize something: there’s a long-term employee here (“Lucien”) who has long gotten on my nerves because his communication style tends to be very passive aggressive. He’s also, in my opinion, a bit of a bully who has a way of forcing other people to conform to how he thinks things should go. However, he’s also been at the company forever and is well-liked by our CEO, which led to him getting a promotion to a senior leadership position about two years ago. This particular position is one that has a lot of sway over the company/culture and also interacts with most of the other employees regularly (we’re a pretty small company, maybe 20-30 employees spread between two locations).

        I’ve been at this company for years, and while there have always been issues with internal communication here, this specific issue only started after Lucien got the leadership position. In that same time frame, I’ve also noticed a definite uptick in my other coworkers being passive aggressive in their communication. Thinking about it through that lens, people reacting to every question like it must have some passive-aggressive double-meaning makes a lot of sense when there’s someone high up whose questions *do* often have passive-aggressive double-meanings.

    2. Thoughts?*

      I’m big on leading with things like:
      Clarifying question: should we include parking info (what’s available, where it is, etc.) in the announcement or not? Asking because I’d rather address this upfront for folks than have to answer it in 30 different follow-up calls/emails.

      Proofreading question: the date of the event is February 12, 2025, correct?

      Etc.

      2. all the words*

        Seconding. The less assumptions the person has to make about your question, the easier it is to answer.

        Be direct about the context/reason for asking and the scope of the answer you’re expecting.

      3. Sparrow*

        See, I’ve tried doing this before—this is what I meant when I said that if I try to explain why I’m asking beforehand, people act like I’m being weird/defensive/over-explaining. This is my go-to in my personal life, but people tend to act like it’s weird here.

    3. datagoose*

      I had a landlord/roommate who constantly misinterpreted me. Even if I did manage to get it through to her that her (mis)understanding was not what I actually meant, she would often use her version of it against me later. I eventually realized she simply wanted to be the victim in every situation, so she was interpreting everything I said to fit that narrative. It could be the case that your boss wants to correct you (to feel in control, etc) even when you’ve done nothing to warrant it. In which case I don’t have any advice but to weigh how much it bothers you against how frequently it happens to see if you can stay, because from my experience there was nothing I could do to make her understand me, she wanted to misunderstand.
      (Sidenote: never enter a situation in which you live with your landlord)

      1. cncx*

        This was my experience at my last job. People had decided I was stupid so every question I asked was interpreted in the least charitable way because in their heads I was already wrong. I could have used ALL the words and crafted the best possible communication, and they were still gonna make it about me being bad and wrong.

    4. califragilistic*

      Not sure I have advice for framing the questions, but for responding, I usually go with, “Er, that’s not quite what I was asking? I was trying to clarify X, Y, X–” and if in person, I add a confused little pause and head tilt before responding.

  90. Blind as a Bat*

    Is there any way to turn this site to dark mode, or request it? The bright white does strain my eyes a bit to read.

    1. Pocket Mouse*

      Check your browser for a setting called something like “dark mode” or “night mode” – that’ll likely solve it for you!

      1. Bubble*

        The site would need to be enabled for Dark Mode, only changing the browser to Dark Mode doesn’t change the site itself. Google, for example, has an option in the lower right to switch the site to Dark Mode, haven’t found the same for AAM.

    2. David*

      I use an extension called “Dark Reader” which can make any site display in dark mode. You might want to give that or another similar extension a try.

      I’d note that displaying a website in dark mode isn’t as simple as changing white to black or inverting all the colors, so the extension has to make some guesses about what changes to make, and it occasionally gets it wrong – you might see awkward combinations like blue text on a black background or some such thing. But I’ve found it to work reasonably well most of the time, and in particular it seems to do a good job with AAM.

  91. Jessen*

    Can I just have a scream in federal contractor? Thanks to a certain executive order, we got a high urgency email to update our signature blocks (they only gave us a few hours) so that now they must contain your legal name and, obviously, most important of all, NO PRONOUNS!!! Because heaven forbid one of those evil transgenders might use unapproved pronouns.

    (Hi, it’s me, I’m the evil transgender out to *checks notes* help keep your healthcare system running?)

    1. Sloanicota*

      *And* I’m also pretty sure the “full legal name and official photo” thing is also to help their AI track people, which would sound paranoid except it was their explicitly stated goal at one point. I’m sorry :(

      1. Fed up taxpayer*

        Verifying every federal employee is a unique living person sounds pretty reasonable to me.

        1. Jessen*

          They’ve already got personnel records for that though? Which have legal names and social security numbers and all that stuff in them. This is just making people use their legal names regardless of what they go by – so John Michael Smith has to sign all his emails as John Smith even if everyone knows him as Dr Mike at work. And telling people they can’t put pronouns in. (The pronouns thing was explicitly called out and it was explicitly cited that these rules were to comply with the executive order on gender ideology.)

          Honestly I’d think most of us have better things to do than to drop our work for an urgent email signature update. I know I do.

          1. Watching the show*

            It looks like an attendance check too. It is 1 PM on Friday, how many people are actually working?

        2. kt*

          Uh, that’s what employment paperwork is for. How are you going to disambiguate all those Mike Johnsons using their… email signatures?

          1. Jessen*

            Honestly, given that we were explicitly told it was to comply with Executive Order 14168, I’m inclined to take them at their word here. It’s designed to forcibly out anyone who hasn’t changed their name legally.

        3. iglwif*

          That’s not what email signatures are for, though. That’s what employment records and social security numbers and so on are for.

          This is just anti-“woke” theatre.

  92. the giver*

    Is it weird to bring (edible) souveniors for coworkers in the office? I work remotely but go into the office here and there, where my grand boss and some coworkers are. I’m not super close with them but my parents always told me it’s good manners to bring small souveniors after visiting somewhere nice (East Asian culture). I’ll be visiting a few international countries and wanted to bring snacks or small items as gifts?

    I find myself with some hesitation because idk if it feels like I’m bragging or trying to put a lot of attention on myself for traveling? I personally don’t think so but I sometimes feel like I don’t 100% understand American workplace culture, as someone who grew up in an immigrant household and mostly worked in companies that were similar to culture in the past. My goal is to just be nice and hopefully bring some joy to others? Thought free snacks would help.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      I brought snacks to an out of country office I was visiting and it was really well received. It was a candy that wasn’t easy to get there. Free snacks are great and I don’t think it will be seen as bragging/attention-seeking.

      1. the giver*

        Did you bring multiple snacks and hand them out to people individually? That’s what I was leaning towards.

        1. Decidedly Me*

          I didn’t know people at this office will, so I brought individual wrapped candies for a communal bowl. I think if I was going to see my specific team, I might do something individually, with maybe something communal for the rest.

    3. califragilistic*

      Very common thing to do in my office! Edible things are definitely preferred over more permanent souvenirs, but it sounds like you’re on top of that.

    4. Qwerty*

      American culture is generally positive around free food

      Bringing back snacks or candy from an international trip is typically well received. Usually the way I see it done is a bowl at your desk or in the break room. Personally I like when it is at the person’s desk because then I get a little break to socialize and ask about their trip.

      1. the giver*

        Would individual items be alright too? Like a box of candies to each teammate? Our team doesn’t always sit together due to the lack of space. And floor has 5+ other teams, so I worry about whether my team will get a piece…

        Or maybe I can splurge and get a humongous amount of snacks for everyone on the floor? Guess it wouldn’t hurt to be on good terms with everyone lol

        1. In Recovery from an ED*

          I always find handing out food to individual people problematic because they may feel pressured to accept it when they do not wish to.

          As someone with food issues, I hate feeling forced to take it to not hurt someone’s feelings.

        2. Zona the Great*

          I’d opt for a variety of things spread out in a common space with a note from you to enjoy. Don’t buy enough of each snack for everyone—just a smattering of various things you liked there.

    5. Rick Tq*

      Free snacks are great but be clear about the ingredients for especially unique snacks (shrimp crackers with actual shrimp, etc.).

    6. Kt*

      A colleague brought a small individual snack for each team member on a first visit (we’re a geographically dispersed team). He brought a box of chocolates to share with all the desks near his (individually wrapped — just walked around and mentioned to people). For the small team, five people, he brought a specific local chocolate bar from a local chocolate maker, and just offered to us/let people pick dark or milk chocolate I think. It was done in a low pressure way and people were very happy.

    7. David*

      As other people have said, bringing snacks to share after a trip (either work or personal) is an extremely normal thing to do in many American workplaces. It (almost?) certainly wouldn’t come across as bragging or trying to draw attention to your trip inappropriately. I mean, it does draw a little bit of attention in the sense that it lets people know you were traveling even if they didn’t already know, but it’s a subtle and completely appropriate way to draw that attention, and it’s not like you’re forcing anyone to take notice of the fact.

      At my current office we have somebody bringing back snacks from a trip every other week or so. Personally I always liked bringing home assorted KitKat flavors from Japan, those are always a hit.

      You should also know that in American culture (at least as far as I know it), it’s not *expected* to bring back snacks/souvenirs/anything after a trip. (I’m guessing this differs from the culture your parents grew up in.) It’s a nice gesture if you choose to do it, but if you don’t, you’re not exhibiting poor manners. So feel free to skip it if you want!

    8. iglwif*

      When I used to work in an office, it was … not an expectation, exactly, but a soft norm that if you went somewhere, you would bring back a little treat for the team. Like a box of local chocolates / candy, or something like that — not to spend a ton of money (although more senior people often did, recognizing they had more to spend) but just to bring a little something, especially a little something you couldn’t easily get where we were located. It was always very well received (FREE SNACKEMS!), which is how it became a norm in the first place haha.

      Of course the specifics can depend on your office culture, and the dietary restrictions, allergies, etc. that obtain on your team. Like if 3/5 people keep kosher it’s not great to bring in shrimp crackers or if 4/8 people are diabetic it’s not great to bring in peanut brittle, type of thing. But many people enjoy a little treat :)

  93. sad breadwhinner*

    Would love any thoughts because I honestly feel so lost!

    My partner (early 30s) went back to school for Computer Science for a career switch but is struggling to find a full-time position. She did everything “correctly” – got multiple internships at big companies, networked, studied for technical interviews, etc. However, she graduated last fall and her internship froze hiring and couldn’t give her a return offer. She’s trying her best with the job hunt but it’s been hard.

    My question is whether my partner should keep trying to job hunt until something works out, even if it takes another 1-2 years? Or if we should worry about the cratering tech industry and see if partner wants to pursue a different path? Though she does enjoy the tech work, we both decided she’d go back to school mostly for the (at the time) financial stability her tech income could bring us. We both grew up poor so tech $$$ was insane to us. But we also feel “stuck”, since we’ve been holding off on starting a family and other items until she finished school and found a job.

    1. Almost waited too long*

      Make your finances work with one income and start your family now. It will never get easier, it will never get cheaper, and her fertility will go down and down until it is impossible for her to carry a pregnancy at all.

      1. RagingADHD*

        While I agree that there’s never a perfect time to start a family if you want one, having stable income and good health insurance is a totally reasonable and responsible concern, and you are really overblowing the fertility concern.

        I mean, theoretically if you get stuck in an indefinite loop of indecision, yes at some point people lose fertility. But an otherwise healthy 30 year old is not in imminent danger of her eggs “expiring” within the next couple of years. People catastrophize about this far too much.

        The median age of maternity in the US is 30 – literally half of moms are older than 30. And 47 percent of babies are born to folks between 30 – 39. That’s the largest cohort.

    2. Kt*

      Also check out tech work not in the tech industry. Tech in trucking, insurance, ag, and so on. If she’s got a different path in mind, see if she can pursue both for a while.

    3. Goldie*

      I think it is normal to expect 18 months for a serious job search. She should keep looking for a job. But if you want to have kids, do that too. While the job market for computer science is still messy, there is still a huge demand in the field. She will get a job eventually.

    4. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Is your partner only job-hunting directly inside the tech sector, or also looking at jobs that will use those skills? I work in a state agency and all of them have a variety of technologies in use, systems in need of upgrades, data that needs to be analyzed, etc. etc. It isn’t tech-sector-wild-pay levels but it’s usually good benefits and realistic work hours–the kind of thing that lends itself to starting a family and being able to manage (better work/life balance than tech, from what I’ve read here).

      I wouldn’t hold out for 1-2 years looking only in one sector. Sounds like it’s time to diversify thinking about where the knowledge can be applied and what kind of money to expect as a result.

    5. Hello World*

      > so tech $$$ was insane to us

      I am an experienced tech professional and have spoken to several individuals in their 30s who went back to school or attended a bootcamp for a tech career. All of them saw how the money as seen on TV was “insane” for them: the stock prices, the free meals, gorgeous campus etc. Not seen on TV were the struggle to get an interview when the times were tough, the desire to learn and the magic to break into an unknown path – I’ve been in the field long enough to experience 2 major downturns. The downturns have been tough even for experienced folks.

      What did she do prior to attending school? Perhaps there’s a way to combine her prior experience and her education to help her to stand out. A few of my career-switching colleagues have done non-tech jobs in tech companies to break into tech. When the times are tough, doing everything “correctly” does not help you to stand out. The “correct” things were just what some folks did over 5 years ago.

    6. TechJobs*

      I’ve been working in tech since the early mid 90s and it’s never been a stable environment- this is totally normal and not likely to change any time soon. There is no such thing as job security and finding jobs can be tough/take a while. Sometimes the next job comes fairly quickly, sometimes not. Once you have it you can be laid off at any time. This is also true for contracts which sometimes are more forthcoming than full time jobs.

      Work in tech because you love it, you’re really good at it, or both. Working in tech as a deliberate choice to have a stable high paying career is bonkers.

  94. Rincewind*

    I feel like I already know what the answer is going to be, but so many people fought me on it that I have to ask.

    I regularly visit a site called Not Always Right – it’s funny/frustrating/relatable stories about customers (and sometimes employees) behaving badly in customer service settings.
    I’m taking a break in the breakroom and listening to a couple of coworkers who are talking quite loudly.

    I’ll post a link to the actual story in a comment, but the gist is that a new manager told an employee to “stop being stupid”, and the employee complained. They were blown off by both their other manager and their coworkers – the other manager said that New Manager was a former oil rig worker and needed some slack on adjusting to other workplaces, and the coworkers told the employee “have you tried not being stupid?”

    Now, I didn’t find that comment funny. If my manager told me to stop being so stupid, especially in those words, it would ruin my day. Depending on my state of mind at the time, I might need a moment, possibly to go cry. If I already disliked the job, I might actually walk out. I said I didn’t think that was appropriate phrasing for a work context.

    But lots of people in the comments told me I was wrong. That certain actions deserve to be called out as stupid, that a former oil rig worker is used to being rough, and that telling someone to “stop being stupid” isn’t the same as calling the employee stupid. The manager might be right, depending on how egregious the employee’s actions were before the comment.

    I don’t see it. I don’t think a manager should ever be calling employees stupid. The “adjustment” from the oil rig should be that the guy gets called in for a stern conversation with the higher manager reminding him that’s not how people talk in civil society.

    Thoughts?

    2. Rincewind*

      Whoops – the line about being in the breakroom was an accidental copy/paste from the story!

    3. Toodles*

      Most important: their answer doesn’t help in any way! And it’s just rude. Cutting the manager some slack (which everyone can debate if they think it’s needed or not) would mean they would get firmly reminded of considerate office feedback and a warning v a write-up. No response, if continued, is going to yeet the manager into missing stair territory (“oh, that’s just how Pat is…”)

    4. Jessen*

      I think this really depends on the job site? Which I don’t think was specified in the story, other than “office”.

      My personal impression, as a regular reader of both sites, is that the Not Always Right commentariat leans much more towards people who work in blue and pink collar jobs. And when I’ve worked in that sort of job, telling someone “stop being stupid” would be not that odd. Conversely, a lot of things I’ve seen recommended here and other places wouldn’t go over well at all – they’d be seen as weirdly passive-aggressive.

      Saying that from a manager would be highly inappropriate in most of the sort of environment that gets discussed on this blog – but that sort of environment tends not to be the one that comes up on NAR all that often.

      1. Rincewind*

        Yeah, the culture in blue-collar workplaces does tend to be a bit more loose when it comes to stuff like this. I really don’t think that should extend to verbal abuse of employees, though. Treating employees like that is /common/ but I still don’t think it’s /right/.
        I guess the point of contention in the comments was whether or not calling someone stupid counts as verbal abuse.

    5. Zona the Great*

      A manager who calls me stupid would be responded to as a peer as they would have just lost all my respect and all their credibility. Under no circumstances is oil rig working an excuse for speaking to someone like that.

    6. SunnyShine*

      I work in a blue-collar job field. Calling someone stupid to their face would not fly here. That’s a very old school way of thinking. There’s a lot of push back on older supervisors who act this way. Anyone who supports this probably works in a bad environment.

  95. Part Lab Tech*

    At what point, would you go back to work after a “cold” or “flu”*? When you are completely asymptomatic? After you start improving? A week?
    *That is, a generally self limiting upper respiratory illness of which could be any one of dozen infectious agents of which most adults get 2-4 per year.
    I have a sore throat and I WFH early in the week but went in yesterday even though my symptoms aren’t all gone. I had a negative RAT, I wore a mask and used sanitiser and to me the symptoms don’t quite line up with the most common viruses anyway. (It tastes like secondary infection and it’s all in the throat)
    I sound bad because it’s in the back of throat and there’s an irritation – cough feedback loop going on but I feel better and otherwise fine. (It’s like when something goes done the wrong hole when swallowing, you sound like you’re coughing to death but you’re not actually choking, and your throat might still be easily irritated afterward.)
    My manager wasn’t there but someone obviously said something to her and reminded me I was obliged to stay home if I was ill later.
    I intend to mask up and move to a room by myself if possible if I go in next week but the cough is going to linger long past me being infectious. I would have to take a mix of personal leave and WFH to cover all the hours.

      1. Part Lab Tech*

        I saw that. I might try cough drops and a paracetamol gargle next time I go in. I have always found cough drops remarkably ineffective though.
        I’m just not willing (because I’m not well set up) or allowed to WFH indefinitely.

      1. Pepper*

        I’d just see if you can get advice from a doctor as to how long one would be contagious, and follow that. Then if you tell people at work that you are following medical advice, and if they still bug you, maybe you make a come up with a funny, short response. After that, maybe just wear some kind of mask?

      2. Rincewind*

        Same. I hate getting a cold late in the fall, because if I develop a cough during winter months, it WILL last until the weather warms. I end up with a feedback loop of the cold causing an irritated throat, so I produce more mucous, which makes me cough more, which irritates my throat…

        I try to be polite, cover my cough, and wear a mask if I’m going to spend significant time with someone in an enclosed space. The mask is strictly for their peace of mind – I know I’m not contagious anymore.

        It might not hurt to mention to your manager that you are aware of the policy to stay home if you’re sick, that your symptoms were mostly gone except for a lingering cough, and since she brought it up, what does she recommend you do if you can’t just work from home until the cough is gone?

      3. Part Lab Tech*

        I think that’s what I’ll do Pepper. I’ll see what my doctor says next week.
        I think what I’m irritated about is having judgement questioned about coming in, and possibly using more sick leave than warranted because of optics and other people’s anxiety.

    3. askalice*

      I wish people would be a bit more careful than then are these days. I have a lowered immune system as a result of surgeries and illnesses, and I pick everything up. twice I’ve gotten sick cause a coworker has returned to work sooner than they should have, while still mildly symptomatic.

      The worst part is, our work offers WFH generously. They could WFH for as long as they need. I would work from home if they said they were coming back. I’ve learned the hard way if someone was off sick I need to mask after return as otherwise I’ll get ill. It’s often a more intense illness for me too cause of my lowered immune response.

      1. Part Lab Tech*

        I think that’s part of the issue here too and I am sympathetic. I don’t know where I picked this up from. It sounds like you do the right thing by wearing a mask yourself.
        A couple of people are more susceptible in our office and I am happy to wear a mask and stay away from them.

      2. cncx*

        This part though! The worst cold I ever had was from a coworker who normally would home office if she so much as farted wrong but just had to come in on what she said was day two of the nastiest rsvflurona just for the martyr points. She got everyone on our floor sick. There is no reason not to home office sick at this point if the company allows it. Anything else is selfish. And I get it, my home office set up isn’t ideal and I know some people prefer coming in, but if you can get paid staying home so as not to infect your coworkers, why people don’t do that is beyond me. I have a little more sympathy for people who don’t have home office as an option and don’t get paid if they don’t work, but that wasn’t the case for my coworker.

  96. LurkerBrown*

    Is it wrong to ask my employee to take allergy medicine for her hayfever? She will take it sometimes but other times sits at her desk sniffling and coughing. It is very obvious.

    I offered to buy some of her medicine for her and she declined.

    Since she is the receptionist and the first person people see, it does put some people off.

    I don’t know if I am wrong in thinking she should take her medicine.

      1. LurkerBrown*

        She does take it sometimes though. I never noticed her being sleepy or different. I thought maybe she didn’t have the money. That is why I offered to buy some. I am just not sure if I should continue discussing it with her or leave her alone.

    2. Piper*

      Is she doing the normal, polite things with coughing and with sniffling? Such as, covering mouth with tissue and moving head away from people? That is what I would think is ok to expect. But expecting someone to take any drug – hard no.

      A co-worker/boss/work person would have no idea what her medical condition(s) are or maybe, or whether she experiences problematic side effects from allergy medicine. And a coworker/boss/ work person would have not right to know.

      1. Piper*

        For more info, allergy medicine can dry your mouth and your eyes… not at all good.
        You can go on line, do a search and read for yourself.
        And if you already have dry eyes or dry mouth one does not need that exacerbated (writing from experience).

    3. Rincewind*

      No. You do not know her medical history and you should not ask it. You do not and should not know if she has a condition, like high blood pressure, that means she can’t take certain kinds of medications. She might be willing to do it “sometimes” if her symptoms are really bad and worth the risk to her, but that’s a decision for her to make.
      Plus allergy medications can have pretty severe side effects.
      I’d say at the most, you can ask her to wear a mask if she has coughing/sneezing/sniffling symptoms – “you and I know it’s just allergies, but the clients don’t know that.” Otherwise, drop it.

      1. I didn't say banana*

        You’re also not meant to take them while pregnant, which she may not want to disclose. You cannot tell an employee what medicine to take.

    4. Rainy*

      Yes, it’s wrong of you.

      Allergy medicine can have ridiculous side effects that vary widely for people. I know people who can take Benadryl and have a totally normal day, but I am not one of them. If I’m taking Benadryl, I’m going home and taking it, because I can’t take Benadryl and be functional.

      Also, if your complaint is that she’s coughing, there are no antitussives (anti-cough medications) that are actually shown in research studies to prevent cough. So if her antihistamine or whatever isn’t tamping down the allergic response or drying up her sinuses, her allergy medication probably isn’t doing anything for the cough anyway.

      1. ThatGirl*

        There are many anti allergy pills that are non drowsy. It is worth investigating the newer drugs out there.

        1. Rainy*

          I wasn’t asking for recommendations, friendo. As a matter of fact, I am well aware that there are non-drowsy antihistamines because I take a daily antihistamine, have done since dailies first hit the OTC market, and have cycled through two different dailies in the last ~25 years. HOWEVER, if one has serious allergies, one may also end up taking Benadryl sometimes.

          I was responding specifically to the original poster of the question, about a common allergy medication that their employee might be taking, since they also mentioned they’d never noticed their employee getting sleepy.

    5. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      You can direct her to make sure people aren’t feeling exposed to something that could be contagious because she’s on the front desk. This might look like masking, going to the restroom to blow her nose and have a good coughing fit, sipping lots of tea, whatever works for her. It should also include regularly sanitizing her hands and work surfaces because people won’t know it isn’t contagious.

      It also might look like not being at work. How much sick leave does she get and is this going to be problematic? Is there any possibility of someone swapping with her for part of a day if it’s really bad so she can still work and not be on the front the whole day?

      It’s kind of you to offer to buy it but you can’t tell her to take anything. That’s policing what someone else puts into their body. You probably wouldn’t want your boss telling you what to do if you knew what the problem was and what does or doesn’t work for you.

      It also feels a bit like a comment on her income or budgeting skills and whether she can afford it. Again, kindly meant, but might come across that way and as someone who may have something to do with her salary level that might also have stung. (“I could afford my own hay fever medicine if you paid better but I can’t just say that” kind of feeling.)

      I really do understand both wanting to relieve her obvious distress and also to not have people coming into the office put off by it. Coming up to a desk with that happening, personally I’d appreciate a small sign saying “Not contagious–hay fever”.

      1. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        One more thought: Can you stock the office with some of the basic forms of relief? That would be appreciated by people in general if they have some cough drops, nice tissues (the kind with the lotion), and antihistamines stocked somewhere. That way if something hits at work they can deal with that little tickle.

  97. ThatGirl*

    My general rule of thumb is if I feel crappy, contagious or I’m coughing/blowing my nose enough that it would concern me in someone else, I stay home. I hate hearing my coworkers hack up a lung.

    But. I can work from home without issue and have all the sick time I need. That may not be the case for you. In which case I would recommend mucinex-dm, cough drops and a mask.

    1. CoughingAtWork*

      I cough semi-continuously thanks to allergies and asthma. If you want me onsite you’re getting loud frequent coughing as part of the package. I’ll happily work from home 100% of the time, though.

  98. Le le lemon*

    I joined my company on a short term contract. I send products to customers, and have achieved a lot already. (I inherited a mess/it lacked logical process).
    One of my tasks became chasing unpaid invoices. I’ve managed to recoup $50k, from brands that aren’t the simplest to get money out of. It was 80% investigation 20% charm/negotiating (rather than 80% talking, payment plans etc).
    Is it crass to put this achievement on my CV? How do I word it?

    1. Part Lab Tech*

      That’s fantastic. Definitely put it on your resume. Something like –
      Improved number of paid invoices by x% through better documentation and processes.
      Includes some brands that had been outstanding for X time.

    2. iglwif*

      That’s a serious accomplishment and you should absolutely put it on your résumé!! I would think anyone would be impressed by that.

      Maybe something like “recovered $50k in accounts receivable over X period” ? And then you can expand on how you did it in your cover letter or in interviews.

    3. Emac*

      Definitely put it on! If the wording above doesn’t work, you could put something like “Recouped x number of invoices in x amount of time, generating $50k for the company”

  99. Anger Before Acceptance*

    I was let go today alongside my entire team save for the person(s) who were largely responsible for us being let go and I am, admittedly, beyond mad. I’m also sad, but genuine anger is there in the spotlight doing it’s thing.

    The person largely responsible for our entire team being laid off somehow escaped getting let go with us because her superior never wrote her up throughout the season even though she actively should have been. So while we, who were let down by her inability and her superior’s conflict avoidance habits, are let go… she can stay, moved to another team.

    This is after two months of reduced pay because instead of letting go half the team to stay in contract, they just VTO’d us to keep us all employed because our supervisor made the promise none of us would be let go at the end of our busy season (not a promise she should have made, it’s known that the teams slough workers at crunch close). So she not only got to keep her full pay because she wasn’t getting VTO’d, but she gets to keep the job in spite of failing her entire team.

    I adore her! I love her as a person, but it was clear very quickly that she could not actually do the job that she was promoted into and her superior suffered as well (though is partly to blame). Our previous manager, who had accepted a position in another team and that’s why the position had opened, spent more time than she should have not just running her own team, but trying to help her replacement over five months and watched her struggle even there.

    (An example is how I had a borderline meltdown because I got a ‘verbal warning’ e-mail from my supervisor over a supposed QA that had been unacceptably low (we had an issue in the QA department that impacted us heavily, simplified by ‘petty manager was lashing out’), only for my supervisor to learn that I had not only /never/ been spoken to about that particular QA, but I had not received feedback on /any/ QA since the start of the season.

    Now I have to figure out how to answer the ever fun ‘why did you leave your previous job’ question with new interviews and while I know the answer is as easy as ‘our team was let go after our contract expired and no new work could be found,’ my petty/angry self is stuck in ‘my superiors failed to support the team and sank us.’

    I really liked the company and the job. I know once anger evaporates, I’ll migrate somewhere into genuine sorrow. I was doing a good thing.

    1. Anger Before Acceptance*

      I should mention I’m doubly mad because I was passed over for the promotion and she got it instead, so not only did I internally scream the entire season because I know I could do what she wasn’t, but the manager who transferred out that she replaced was screaming the whole time because she knew I could have done it as well.

      That manager is, to her credit, even more upset than I am and cannot believe that they let me go instead of moving me.

    2. SunnyShine*

      Getting laid off really sucks. I can only imagine the stress and fear you must be feeling right now.

      The issue you laid out sound like a company problem, not just your supervisor. While there is a lot to be angry that she caused, I blame your boss’s boss for a lot of these issues. He would be the one who signed off the cut in pay and laying off the team. He would be the one who hired her over you. Since he didn’t help her grow as a new manager, he probably knew you all were going to be let go, so he didn’t offer the proper support.

      Sorry that all of this happened. :(

    3. Jen*

      It sucks but the first answer makes you look way better than the other one, believe it or not

      Anger makes people want to run away

  100. Emac*

    Idk if it’s too late for this, but there’s a job I think I want to apply for. The title and the little description of it sound like what I’m looking for. However, the description I found says to click a link for a full description, but the link isn’t valid.

    Do I contact the HR department to see if I can get a full description? Or just apply based on what I do see? I’m worried that my resume/cover letter won’t be targeted enough as the requirements are very basic in the description I see. I’ve looked at jobs at this university before and the linked full descriptions are usually very detailed.

    1. The teapots are on fire.*

      Of course contact them! You need the description and they clearly think they posted one.

  101. A friend*

    I have a very close friend who is making a challenging career transition (she doesn’t have the option to stay in her prior field). She’s been looking for nearly a year, with a handful of interviews, but never an offer. I’ve done what I can, recommending her for a job at my company and getting her a chat with one of our recruiters, and I constantly send her job opportunities I swear on LinkedIn. Her unemployment is running out soon and she is very down and pessimistic about her prospects. What more can I do to help or support her?

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      You’ve probably already done this, but:
      – review her resume again following our host’s guidelines
      – practice interviews with her
      – support her in finding any emergency pay the bills job e.g. office temping, call centres etc, to start after unemployment runs out.

Comments are closed.