open thread – March 14, 2025

by Alison Green on March 14, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. International trade*

    I need to vent. Badly. I’m at a loss how to handle this. I work in international trade and have for years. The current tariff situation has made my work life hell. Hardly anyone shows any sense of professionalism. I am regularly verbally abused by customers (including the c word), yelled at by my own coworkers and management. No one likes the tariff increases. I’m the messenger for all the increases. I provide US government issued publications on the increases, explain everything in clear bullet points, and I’m taking significant time to explain things on the phone. No one in management at my company is giving me any support with the verbally abusive customers. I’m told we can’t afford to lose business so there will be no pushback. When I told the person who called me the c word that I was hanging up until they could talk in a professional manner, that customer called my manager and said I had hung up without context. A coworker had heard the entire call (customer was yelling so loudly I had phone away from ear and coworker heard) and backed me up. I still got a talking to. Getting another job in the industry right now will still have enormous stress, and no guarantees about how customers will behave. I can’t avoid phone calls. I have to take them as they come through unless I’m at lunch, in the bathroom, or on another call. I’m the punching bag for the entire department and I’m sick of it.

    I have very good performance reviews and customers generally say good things about me. But even the good ones have pretty much lost their collective minds over the tariff situation over the last month or so. I’m falling behind in my regular work. Whenever I attempt to do it, there’s an urgent call, email, or meeting from upper management on the situation. I was reprimanded for falling behind on my regular tasks, but even when I point out all the stuff related to the tariffs is taking up my time, I’m told that if I was on top of things, I would be able to get regular tasks done. Other coworkers are in a seasonal lull and cover my desk when I’m out. I asked boss if coworker could take some of my simpler regular tasks and I was told no. The entire situation is that this whole thing is my fault and it’s my problem if I can’t keep up. I refuse to work extra beyond 30 min a day. I don’t take work home and don’t have any requirements to answer phone calls or emails outside of office hours (don’t have a work phone or laptop).

    Reply ↓
    1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I’m so sorry this is happening to you.

      You said, “Getting another job in the industry right now will still have enormous stress, and no guarantees about how customers will behave.”

      This is all true, I’m sure, but might getting another job remove the particular stressor of management not having your back and finding it acceptable for customers to call you the C word?

      Reply ↓
    2. Lurker*

      What does your direct supervisor provide as guidance for how to handle customers acting like this? If they have not offered any can you ask for some so your team can present a unified front. Let them know that you are experiencing a lot of verbal abuse and need support.

      Reply ↓
    3. Not A Project Manager*

      This is awful, and people should understand that these are Unprecedented Times around this stuff. I mean, it’s never happened like this before and the situation is unbelievably chaotic. (I’m a grant manager of federal funds so I’m there with you. Everyone wants answers, nobody has any answers, the people who might have once provided answers don’t even work there anymore). It sounds like maybe you need to get straight with your boss on how they want you to handle tariff stuff. Ideally, there would be a tariff czar in your office and you can punt to them if you’re still expected to handle all your regular workload as if everything is normal.

      Reply ↓
    4. Seriously?*

      Do you have a 2nd tier boss and HR person where you can outline the demand signal and the work load issue you are having and indicate that you need relief? That or take a week of vacation ( if you have it), designate your 1st line manager as the point of contact and let them live in your pit for the week. Companies will squeeze out what they can from you and I am sorry.

      Reply ↓
    5. arctic tern*

      Honestly I don’t see many options besides grin and bear it and hope things blow over, or find another job. I know that’s probably really unhelpful but you’ve already asked for help or grace and your management has shown to be unreasonable. Unless there’s someone above them you can escalate to, I don’t really see what else you can do in this situation.

      Reply ↓
    6. Other Alice*

      I would still consider switching jobs. You are right that the situation with the tariffs and the customers will be the same, but management is treating you very poorly in your current position! They should have your back and at a minimum have your back when you have to deal with customer yelling obscenities at you, instead of reprimanding you. In addition they should recognize the increased workload you’re facing and find a way to get you help or divert some of your tasks. I would go back to your manager and outline those issues, but if they still won’t do anything then do consider a job search.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nebula*

        Yes, I second this. Do you know people who work at other companies in this industry? Could you put out some feelers and see how other organisations are handling it? The refusal to reallocate any of your tasks to other people (even though they are in a seasonal lull!) demonstrates poor management, and while the tariff situation will be the same anywhere else, the management situation is likely not universal.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah sometimes shitty external circumstances are enough to cause misery, even when management is supportive but OP is seeing their manager explicitly and deliberately fail them at exactly the time they most need their support. Sounds like a fair weather manager who was probably tolerable when everything was going well.

        Reply ↓
    7. Antilles*

      Never dealt with tariffs specifically, but I’ve done customer service and one thing I’ve found that sometimes helps in situations like these is not to “push back” or argue with the customers, but just to sound sympathetic while (politely) reminding them that it’s being made above your head.
      “Sir, I know you’re frustrated with the tariffs because I am too, you have no idea how much it stinks that the politicians are playing their games and you and I are stuck dealing with the fallout.”
      I’ve found this can sometimes really help cut down the abuse because they aren’t really frustrated with me specifically, just the situation. And reminding them of that can get them to calm down (and maybe even apologize) once they remember that I have nothing to do with it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Complaints*

        I agree. I used to handle valid but unactionable complaints the same way. As soon as possible I’d chime in “I totally agree with you” and it almost always took the wind out of their sails.

        Reply ↓
      2. PurpleShark*

        I don’t know if you are at all familiar with Dr. Harold Camping, but he had an old show on the radio where he would field calls about his prediction that the world was going to end. He had a specific date- sometime in 2011. People would call to ask stuff like, “should I go to graduate school if the world is ending?” They were serious too. Others would call and just unload on him. He was always calm and would say – as they were screaming- “thank you for calling and sharing” then he would hang up. Honestly, the main thing is to remain calm, which sounds like you are. I feel for you because that type of abuse is horrific. Also, I would agree as much as possible with them then they have nowhere to go with their “argument.” You have nothing to loose here and you don’t need to make any points with them.

        Reply ↓
      3. Landry*

        I would not use this language. You don’t know the political preferences of your customers and there’s a high risk that using that wording will be seen as an attack and just piss them off even more.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pine Tree*

          Yep, they could acknowledge their frustration and say that they are also frustrated, but I’d definitely stop at that. There are too many people who don’t understand the consequences of their votes, but this is not the situation to educate them about it (as much as you might want to….).

          Reply ↓
    9. International trade*

      To answer multiple questions:

      I have gone to my immediate boss, his boss, and HR. No joy with any of them. HR is frankly useless. When I’ve asked how to handle the abusive customers, I’ve been told I just have to take it as we can’t afford to lose any customers. In other words, management has NO backbone. I also brought up the issue of being overloaded with my boss, his boss, and HR. Again, no joy. None of them either care or can’t comprehend how the tariff issue has taken over my days.

      I AM the tariff czar. I’ve provided scripts for coworkers to use with their customers and documents that detail it all in very simple language. They refuse to use the tools I’ve provided and every phone call or emails about the issue are thrown at me to handle.

      The abusive customers are already screaming when I pick up the call. I can’t get a word in to attempt to calm them down. When I’ve tried, I was told I was interrupting and to shut up.

      My coworkers have a huge lull in their workloads right now. I see them sitting around for huge gaps of time, gossiping or playing on their phones. I’ve always been helpful with anyone else in the office who needed it in the past. No more.

      I’m a department lead and I’ve been thrown to the wolves.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        When you get a screamer, put the receiver down on your desk. Don’t hang up or put them on hold. Just leave the receiver on your desk until they get bored with screaming. In the meantime get some work done.

        Also, I am no expert on this, but if management is allowing customer to call you sexual slurs, does this qualify as a hostile environment under labor law?

        Reply ↓
        1. International trade*

          I do this already. And coworkers who sit near me complain about the noise. I make sure to have the volume on my phone way up so everyone can hear even through the receiver is on my desk.

          Reply ↓
          1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

            Are these the same coworkers who transfer all the calls to you instead of using your scripts? If so…wow.

            Reply ↓
        2. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

          This actually might work. Depending on your work setup, you may be able to mute yourself and put the caller on speaker or use a headset while you get other work done. If/when they say something worth responding to, you can always unmute.

          Reply ↓
      2. ICodeForFood*

        I’m so sorry you are dealing with this… I wish I had something more constructive to suggest, but know that your management and HR suck, and frankly, so do your coworkers if they are sitting around not doing much but refusing to help you deal with any of this.
        My take would be too start job-hunting, hopefully finding an employer with management that is willing to manage and has your back.

        Reply ↓
      4. Mockingjay*

        Let them rant. When they run out of breath: “I agree these changes are difficult for everyone; let’s discuss what I can do to help your situation. However, company policy does not permit verbal abuse of staff. If you continue shouting or cursing, this call will be discontinued.”

        Personally, I’d rip into the coworkers. Coworkers have the scripts and info, they need to use that and do their jobs. You’re not paid anywhere near enough to do their work as well as your own.

        Also, has your boss heard any of these calls? I’d conference them in and let them listen to a few. Or better yet, transfer them to your boss. “I’m going to escalate this to management, as you are a Very Important Customer and I want to be sure you are taken care of.”

        I am so sorry you’re enduring this, I wish I had more to offer than empathy and platitudes.

        Reply ↓
      5. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

        How much of your regular work involves the phone? Since being on another call is one of the acceptable reasons not to pick up a new one, could you arrange things so that you’re on calls for your normal workload for a larger percentage of the time? Does your phone have a mechanism to see who is trying to transfer a call to you and then transfer it back without picking up?

        Reply ↓
          1. Venus*

            I think the suggestion is to make calls out yourself (if you make calls) if there are times when the most abusive calls come in. “Sorry, can’t answer that call because I’m busy now on an important call with Persephone!”

            Reply ↓
      6. Tio*

        Hello! I’m a licensed customs broker who worked in 3PL for a decade before heading into the importer side.

        While nothing is ever perfect, I strongly encourage you to look into logistics on the importer side rather than in other 3PLs. If you’re licensed, NOW is the time. I have a position I love and I’m not leaving but I still have recruiters beating down my doors on linked in.

        Also, I guarantee you not all logistics companies are letting their people be treated this badly. This would not have flown at all in my last company. So maybe the company itself is what you want to change if you’re stuck in 3PL hell. I encourage you to look up your local NCBFAA chapter and attend a meeting or seminar, and check in with people there about how their company is handling things. This will help you pre-vet some of the companies if you decide to switch.

        Sorry your company sucks and big hugs from another import logistics professional!

        Reply ↓
    10. yams*

      Really do consider switching jobs, while the situation with tariffs is going to be the same wherever you go, the way your company and customer’s are reacting to it is not great. I am also in the same industry and if anything, this has brought the procurement teams closer together as we lean on each other to manage this whole mess. The way you are being treated is not OK.

      Reply ↓
    11. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

      That sounds awful. I understand that most jobs in international trade will likely be similarly stressful, but I have to hope that not all of them have management whose spines were manufactured by Haribo. Do you know anyone at similar organizations who can tell you how their management is handling things? Even if the “good” places aren’t hiring, maybe knowing they exist would be encouraging if you’re willing to consider leaving.

      Given how difficult your position is and how much they’ve dumped on you, I have to imagine you’d be hard to replace. Maybe this is wishful thinking because your managers do not seem like rational people, but could you see yourself going to them with a log of the calls over the last x number of weeks, the amount of time they took up, and the amount that is left for your regular work? You may have already done that, but at some point they will face the reality that they can’t have one person doing all of those things because of math. Maybe they’re the type of people who would FAAFO by firing you anyway – you would know that better than I would. But if they have two brain cells to rub together, that means you may have some amount of leverage.

      Reply ↓
      1. International trade*

        Yes, I would be difficult to replace. I forgot to mention that my regular customers I’ve handled for years are reasonable and express appreciation for the updates I send them, etc. They don’t yell. The screamers are the customers handled by everyone else.

        Thanks to the poster who mentioned transferring screamers to my boss. I just did that. He yelled at me afterwards for doing it. I sort of snapped. I bluntly told him he needed a taste of what I’m dealing with all day and why should I be the only one to have to just take it? I can be quite assertive at times and I’ve just had enough.

        Reply ↓
        2. Saturday*

          I’m really angry on your behalf. Yes, this situation is really difficult – but why is it all your problem?? Management should be grateful you’re dealing with so much, and instead they’re saying you’re not doing enough, and they’re angry when some of this stuff splashes on them? That’s completely outrageous.

          Reply ↓
    12. Busy Middle Manager*

      If someone calls you a C and your boss is cool with it, then they’ve “escalated the situation” so to speak. You’re now free to hang up, be ruder, be pushy, etc. It’s not even malicious compliance. I’d liken it to one side of my family where people are generally loud and fight often and make up ten minutes after. I speak and conduct myself around them differently than with someone who’s quiet and polite. So from now on, you know it’s OK to be pushier with customers, and if you’re boss says anything you have the “you said it was fine for customers to curse me out, what do you want” to keep pulling out.

      As per your vent in general, agree. Trying to make it as a day trader? This has been my worst two weeks. I’m barely trading. I can trade a general down market. But I can’t short anything now because they were tweeting positive news before, causing things to rally hard out of nowhere. It feels a bit like purgatory.

      Though your situation is worse, mine has different layers of mental torture, the main one being that tariffs are the new scapegoat for every stock going down, meaning I have to do way more extra research into why some things are dropping than if the financial media just covered everything factually.

      Reply ↓
    13. Sybil Writes*

      I’m wondering if you could make a pitch to your management that in these unprecedented times, it could help customer retention to have a well thought out and implemented process for providing information updates and responding to queries. Routing questions to email rather than phone calls would (arguably) make it easier to provide consistent information and gather the most frequently asked questions, which could be proactively addressed on your website. Even if this had to be updated daily, it would save the wear and tear on you, in terms of personal attacks.
      This would probably be a terrible time for the company to lose you, an employee who has knowledge in this destabilized area that customers care about. Can you find a way to remind them that retaining you may be closely connected to retaining customers.
      Many companies have times when they need to send all calls to voicemail with instructions on how to get further information.
      It’s not ideal, but it is unacceptable to knowingly subject your front line to verbal abuse with no relief or support.

      Reply ↓
    14. Juneybug*

      I don’t think any of us readers would disagree that you are in incredibly difficult, should say impossible, situation.

      You could try one more time with an ultimatum with your leadership –

      You, in a meeting with your mangers:
      The tariff situation has significantly increased my work with numerous federal changes, increased time with bullet papers explaining these changes, and increased phone calls that take longer response time to clearly explain the new and quickly changing situations.
      Because of this, my routine tasks are falling behind. We are at a point where my routine tasks need to be transferred to other employees. This will allow us to keep current with the tariffs and help our customers understand the changes, as well have the routine tasks completed.
      The next four years will be consistent changes so our company needs to be adaptable and ensure we do not lose customers.
      We need to work out a strategy to get the routine tasks off the tariff expert’s expected duties so we can focus on the ever changing landscape. If we are unable to do that by the end of next month, then I will need to ___________________
      (stop doing routine tasks, stop answering phone calls with customers, or quit).

      At this point, you have explained the situation, gave them a solution (move routine tasks off your plate), and a deadline. If the leadership doesn’t fix this problem, then by all means either stop doing whatever tasks you decide in the meeting or quit.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  2. Controlled by your spouse's job*

    Has anyone here been made to do things by your spouse’s job? (I don’t mean like moving around as a military spouse, I mean in a corporate setting.)

    My husband is trying to get out of public education, and is two interviews deep for a role as a learning coordinator at a facility that works with at-risk youth. They are explicitly requiring that nobody in the household use social media, claiming it’s for our safety and their liability. This includes LinkedIn.

    Our finances hinge on the fact that he can work his low-paying passion job because I work in tech and bring in good money. Using LinkedIn has been key to promotion/progression for me, and staying visible on it is essential for the health of my career. Him accepting yet another low-paying job that now also wants to hobble MY ability to earn is completely unacceptable to me. This is obviously causing friction at home.

    Thoughts?

    Reply ↓
    1. UpstateDownstate*

      I’ve never heard of this. Would they have the same requirement if he was living with a roomate and not a spouse? Or what if they didn’t even know he was married? OR, what if your job required you to promote the company and your services over LinkedIn or Instagram? What about that? I agree that it’s an overstep and it’s not like he’s working for a three name agency jeez.

      Reply ↓
    2. HannahS*

      That is an absurd requirement. I frequently work with agencies working with at-risk youth and that’s not a requirement for their staff–even less for their spouses! The staff are not permitted to connect with youth over social media for obvious reasons related to professional boundaries, but that’s so far off from what this facility is doing that I’d take it as a big red flag of this facility as an employer.

      Reply ↓
      1. PurpleShark*

        My brother worked at a prison. This was not a requirement for him or his spouse. I am uncertain as to why this would be an issue for this job site.

        Reply ↓
        1. A Reader*

          I agree that understanding the reason might help OP and their family decide whether this is a reasonable ask or not (in general – it seems like this won’t be possible for this household, given OP’s need to use LinkedIn).

          If the reason is for protection of the agency’s clients, wouldn’t a policy prohibiting both the employee and their family/friends from posting about clients, or even about their association with the agency suffice? (Of course, people might violate that policy…but they also might violate this more restrictive policy that the agency evidently has!)

          If the reason is for protection of the employee against anyone who might have ill will towards the agency, its employees, its mission, etc. and might seek out employees/their families etc. on social media to threaten or harass them, then (a) I’d assume that would have been explained (since it would suggest that this role could cause harm to come to the employee/people associated with the employee, which would be important information for prospective employees to know!), and (b) it would be troubling if “no social media” is the agency’s only step to protect employees/their families etc.

          Reply ↓
    3. Shirley Keeldar*

      My thoughts are:

      A) this is utterly ridiculous, and a company that crosses boundaries in such a silly way right up front is not going to be good to work for.

      B) How on earth would they know what you, the spouse, are doing on LinkedIn? Tell your husband to blink vaguely at them and say, oh, that must be some other Alexandria Constantine, not my dear and beloved life partner.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kay Tee*

        Right?! Is this just an unenforced CYA? Like “sorry your spouse got harassed on LinkedIn by a disgruntled/in-crisis former client, but we told you not to even have one”

        Reply ↓
        1. MsSolo (UK)*

          It has a whiff of a policy response to a specific incident to me – someone was tracked down through a spouse’s linkedin, for example (if the spouse runs a business from home then the address would be easy to acquire, especially if it’s a business that doesn’t lend itself to using a PO box instead)

          Reply ↓
    4. Kay Tee*

      Huh??? I know people in social services, healthcare, and similar client-facing fields are careful about social media, maybe using a nickname or middle name on their Facebook. There’s no reasonable way that extends to saying no member of the household can even USE ANY social media.

      Reply ↓
    5. DisneyChannelThis*

      That seems like a red flag for a bad job. It’s fine to say you can’t record content while at work, post about work publicly etc. But they can’t control what you do in your own time. Trying to control your spouse is a whole extra level of weird. Calling out linkedin specifically seems especially weird, most people just use it like a resume, not even posting any novel content to it. How would they even know?? Most people are semi private online.

      If he’s desperate for a job maybe stay in the running but it seems very red flag to me.

      Reply ↓
    6. SB*

      This seems bonkers to me. I’ve had to do my share of background checks, fingerprints, and training on things like the Hatch Act (related to political activity) but never anything about my family or their social media. That would be a non-starter for me. My partner owns a small business in our community and has a very active social media presence around that business.

      Reply ↓
    7. Parenthesis Guy*

      There are definitely are jobs like that where there are restrictions on what the spouse can do. Finance for example.

      I would also say that’s largely besides the point as you described in your last paragraph. Hobbling your ability to earn when you’re making so much more than he does simply doesn’t make sense. Reasonable people would understand this. The fact that your husband doesn’t is the main red flag here.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        An ex-colleague of mine had to announce that she couldn’t be on social media any more because her spouse was appointed as a judge, which makes sense if you think about the potential for conflicts of interest. It’s a ridiculously strict requirement for almost anyone else, though!

        Reply ↓
      2. Strive to Excel*

        There’s also the point where the finance jobs that restrict you like this are either a) career-making prestigious, b) pay well, or c) both. As mercenary as this sounds I find it very unlikely that a job counseling at-risk youth is going to pay well enough to make up for Controlled’s income reduction.

        Reply ↓
      3. Clisby*

        Yeah, my husband works in fintech and there are restrictions on what I can do as far as buying/selling stocks. But that’s a much narrower concern than what social media I can engage in – they don’t care.

        Reply ↓
    8. librarian*

      This sounds more like a cult than a company… Not even trying to be funny! This is a serious red flag, both for you and for him (and, honestly, for the youth they work with.) Maybe I’m overreacting but this just seems so out of the realm of normalcy to me.

      Reply ↓
    9. Stuart Foote*

      I understand why they would want this, but this seems like an utterly insane requirement. Imagine if a parent of three teenage kids was applying for this job–good luck with that! Not to mention it’s ridiculous to expect that spouses won’t even use LinkedIn.

      Your husband is wrong here and it’s not close. I’m sure his heart is in the right place, but I’d be pretty annoyed with him.

      Reply ↓
    10. Ellis Bell*

      This is absolutely not a thing in safeguarding circles. They are either hugely out of touch, or it’s a misunderstanding about their social media policy, like simply not mentioning them on social media or something else within the realm of reason.

      Reply ↓
    11. StressedButOkay*

      Oh, this is just weird. No, this is not at all normal and is a giant red flag at how this company is going to walk all over you and your husband. That’s a huge “no personal life” red flag right there.

      Reply ↓
    12. Cabbagepants*

      It’s nuts in this situation. bananapants. loony.

      I have heard of spousal restrictions when there are high-level security clear

      Reply ↓
    13. thatsjustme*

      Like everyone else, I find that requirement to be an overreach, and I don’t understand the reasoning. Assuming you and your husband are both understanding the policy correctly, it might be useful to ask the hiring manager or HR recruiter how other people have handled that upon getting hired. It’s hard to imagine that other spouses or roommates have simply shut down all their accounts to comply with this. Whatever the answer is, that could give you some insight about how this place operates.

      Mostly, I suspect this isn’t the only weird thing about this employer, so you may discover some other red flags that make it easier to walk away.

      Reply ↓
    14. Lindy Hopper*

      Echoing others here – my spouse’s entire family works in social services in some capacity and many of them work in residential care for youth with severe behavioral disorders, so firm boundaries between staff and the youth they serve are extremely important for everyone’s safety. None of them have ever been asked to be completely off social media themselves as employees, though this feels like a more-reasonable request to me, and certainly none of their employers have ever required that their entire household be off social media. This is a bananas request.

      Reply ↓
    15. Retail Dalliance*

      Um, that is bonkers????? Nobody in the house can use LinkedIn? That’s insane. That’s actually a red flag about this organization imo, because they utterly fail to see how they’re crossing boundaries left and right. You should be able to have any social media account you want. You’re not working with the youths.

      Reply ↓
    16. Juneybug*

      When I worked at the state Department of Revenue, few of our staff had alias names for their protection (think tax auditor for very large corporation that you probably purchase variety of items where they ship to your home).
      Could your husband do that instead of making this situation a “your problem”?
      BTW, I was never asked to remove any social media, including my spouse, when I worked for them.

      Reply ↓
    17. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      This is absurd. I could understand not using social media and mentioning the kids he would work with and that pictures would not be shared. But I don’t think this is legal. What if you had a job that was working with social media?

      Reply ↓
  3. BJH*

    I started a new job 6 weeks ago and I can’t figure out how to get my momentum. I don’t have enough work to fill the day — I worry it’s because I don’t know how to jump in and what to take ownership of/who is doing what, so I have trouble identifying what to do. It’s 100% remote (which is new for me). It’s a small start-up, and my role is new to the company. Are there actionable things I can suggest to my manager? She seems awesome, but I don’t want to just come to her with a vague feeling or complaint.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Since its a new role, would it be reasonable for you to have short 1-on-1s with lots of other employees? 20 minute “what do you do and how can this role support you” conversations?

      Reply ↓
      1. crookedglasses*

        Spinning off of this, is there anything else you can do to deepen your understanding of the company? Join other team meetings? Do a ridealong on client meetings/projects/whatever might be relevant? That might help you start building out a better sense of where is appropriate and helpful to plug in.

        Reply ↓
    2. Not A Project Manager*

      This is very normal! I would go to your manager with ideas of what you think might be reasonable for you to take on, but make it a conversation. “At this point I’ve been here six weeks, and I think I’m ready to start managing the X project and keeping the Y spreadsheets up to date.” You can say “I have some time on my hands and could take on Z” if you think that drives it home, but I generally hold back on that a little if I’m afraid she’ll start “dumping” crap on me if I say it. If she has nothing to offer and doesn’t seem concerned, or disagrees with everything you suggest, well then I guess you don’t have to feel guilty if you spend your time reading AAM or making pies for Pi Day.

      Reply ↓
    3. LadyMTL*

      Can you talk to your manager and say that you feel a bit unsure as to what you’re expected to do? If your job is a new role it could be that she doesn’t quite know herself, and it might be helpful for the both of you to work through it together.

      Reply ↓
    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I would just lay the situation out for your manager and see what she suggests. “I’m finding I still have time left over after I’ve completed X, Y, and Z. Are there other things you’d like me to work on? If there are certain kinds of work I can just jump in and take on when I’m done with my other work, let me know–I’m happy to be proactive, but don’t want to step on anyone’s toes.”

      Reply ↓
    5. Valerie Loves Me*

      Since you’re so new I wouldn’t worry yet about the workload and expanding on the advice given, take the opportunity to learn the infrastructure of the organization… Meet colleagues for coffee, learn about what they do, about what you might be able to help with or support. Take the time to get to know the technicals — operating systems, shared documents, website, etc. Read anything you can get your hands on that acclimates you to the work the company does and/or what your position might be able to accomplish (podcasts from others in your situation or what you might like to accomplish while you’re there.) My guess is as time goes on, you’ll have less opportunity to shape the work you do, so it’s a perfect opportunity to find out how you do want to shape it and then present it to your boss? :)

      Reply ↓
    6. Bess*

      In some areas, it weirdly takes some time before you’re really full to capacity, because the projects you would/will own take time and conversations to get started, because they’re subject to things outside your control…but 6 weeks in is a good time to bring it up with your manager, not as if it’s a problem, but just letting them know you could handle more, you’re wondering if you could work on “x” or “y” to pitch in…just start the conversation. If your leadership is super-busy, they may need prompting to realize your workload is staying really light.

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    7. RagingADHD*

      In addition to the other suggestions, you might ask your manager about the larger ebb and flow of workload during the year (or business cycle) and ask what you can be doing now to prepare / make things easier during the next crunch time. That might include reviewing past projects or documentation to identify those opportunities yourself, but you probably need your manager to direct you where to look.

      Reply ↓
    8. NotmyUsualName*

      When I started at my current role our department was in flux and I had to push for my own training. I kept a spreadsheet of things I had been working on, things that I had been trained on, things I had heard might be part of my job that I had not yet been trained on.

      I sent it weekly to my supervisor so she was in the loop. It worked really well.

      Reply ↓
  4. Not A Project Manager*

    My boss and I don’t quite see our project management the same way. We have a big spreadsheet with tasks and dates. However, she likes to put lots of interim dates including “review document before the Thursday meeting” so she will put the date she wants to review (weds) as the next due date. That’s fine, but it means every week there are all these urgent-seeming “due dates” on the spreadsheet that are not actual real deadlines. I think this obscures the actual important date, the deadline of the project, say, at the end of the month. Is there a way to handle this that lets her use the spreadsheet to track these micro-steps without making me crazy?

    Reply ↓
    1. Jen with one n*

      Can you add an option for ‘milestones’ for each tasking? That would allow her to track her review deadlines or key dates, while still keeping your ultimate deadline date included.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        I second color-coding and, if you choose that method, excel can filter by cell color* so you can filter out the interim deadlines and see just the hard deadlines if you want to.

        *filtering by cell color doesn’t work in the online version of excel last time I checked but it works in the desktop app

        Reply ↓
        1. Not A Project Manager*

          We do actually color code, but the system is that everything “due” this week is red – meaning it looks dang bloody most weeks because there’s always a “due date” for this week, but it’s her doing something very small like “reread the Z file.”

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    3. Peanut Hamper*

      Excel has cell styles the same way that Word has paragraph and character styles.

      You can define separate styles for “final due date” and “interim due date” and apply them as you need to.

      Reply ↓
    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think my answer is probably “don’t use a spreadsheet”. There are plenty of project-tracking systems that allow for subtasks like “pre-review before meeting” under the main task. And lots of them have free license tiers for small organizations if you’re concerned about cost.

      If moving off a spreadsheet is non-negotiable, then can you add an extra column for those not-really-a-deadline-deadlines? Or just add an extra row for the pre-review task.

      Reply ↓
      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        That was going to be my advice – why are we using Excel for scheduling/task management? Plenty of other available programs that provide visual project timelines including intermittent deadlines!

        If it MUST be, I would color code all deadlines differently.

        Reply ↓
        1. Dinwar*

          The problem is, who’s this being communicated to?

          If I’m tracking stuff internally, sure, other software works well. However, if I’m presenting this to a team, often Excel is the best way to present it. Especially if it’s color-coded. The folks on my teams generally are not used to looking at Microsoft Projects outputs or the like. They like seeing color-coded data.

          The other issue is ease of use. If you’re used to working with Excel, learning a new program will require time, effort, and energy you may not have to put into learning a new way to do the same thing. For the stuff I do a Gannt chart isn’t more useful than an Excel table; it’s often less so, in fact, precisely because it does so much more.

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      2. arctic tern*

        As a new manager currently using Excel for schedule tracking, can someone share some of these alternative systems? We use Microsoft Project on a higher-level project management scale (above my team), but I want to take that info and put it into a more easily digestible format for my team’s SA. I know Project has some of that functionality but I find it to be a clunky program to use.

        Reply ↓
        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Jira, Confluence, Asana, Monday, etc.

          There are still a lot of people who are trapped in the mid-2oth-century mental model of PERT vs Gantt, when modern tools allow much more flexibility, nuance, customization.

          Reply ↓
        2. MsM*

          Smartsheet is pretty good for this. We don’t make as much use of the subtasks option as we probably could, but we do have a bunch of ways to tag what type of task something is and where it is in the development/review process so we can filter as needed. (We’ve also got a soft versus hard deadline column, which might help OP.)

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        4. Seamyst*

          I’m in research administration and just started using Microsoft Planner to track to-dos and stuff I do regularly with lots of interim steps and deadlines (like coordinating proposals). You can create an overall plan with lots of individual tasks, add deadlines to those tasks, and assign them to people in a group. I like it so far!

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    5. Cheeruson*

      Can the formatting for the not-really-a-deadline dates be something different (color, font, background) to distinguish them from the actual deadlines? I used the color idea once for a group spreadsheet that our manager insisted couldn’t be separated by team member so everyone could focus on only their assignments if they chose.

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      1. DepressedFed*

        This is weird (and not nearly the most important thing going on), but I work in DC and my agency had a pretty casual dress code until the transition. Now, I’m super wary of any unknown people in suits in our building (and on the streets) even though I know a lot of people (including some of those I work with) have changed their dress code to match/adapt.

        It’s connected to how, overall, there’s a huge sense of distrust with anyone you didn’t already know.

        It’s exhausting.

        Reply ↓
    6. juliebulie*

      Hmm… I don’t think it’s micro-managy to want to review things on a specific date. It’s not weird to have deadlines for lesser milestones – first draft, internal reviews, etc. etc. in fact it’s pretty normal in my experience.

      If some of these deadlines are too aggressive or unrealistic, then that is something you need to talk about. But the fact that they are on a spreadsheet and that they are called “due dates” or “deadlines” instead of, I don’t know, “interim progress dates” is quite reasonable.

      Frankly, I’ve made way more money at companies that plan carefully, to make sure things are on track and not starting to slip. So I’ve learned to “like” the detailed schedule.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not A Project Manager*

        I think the issue is just not tracking which deadlines are completely pushable / arbitrary versus the ones that are completely NOT pushable. I guess you could in fact implement each arbitrary deadline as if it were “real” but my boss understandable doesn’t, and often ends up just bumping the “review Z file” task to next week.

        Reply ↓
        1. Beth*

          You really need multiple categories for this. I’d try to break down your project into a few levels:
          1) Project milestones: Major goalposts that let you track progress on the project as a whole. You’d escalate quickly if one of these was at-risk of delays or incompletion. An example might be “Have complete user documentation for the new release.”
          2) Milestone tasks: Things you need to do to make each milestone happen. Any one of these might be delayed for a week without a problem, but you’d probably escalate if you noticed a pattern of these getting pushed back. An example might be “Create file X to document new feature X”.
          3) Subtasks: The to-do list for each milestone task. I wouldn’t normally track these on the project, but it sounds like your boss wants to, so, whatever. Examples might be “Draft file X,” “Spellcheck file X,” “Review file X with dev team to ensure accuracy,” “Manager signoff on file X”. Each of these could be pushed around pretty significantly without delaying the project

          It sounds like you’re using Excel to track things. In that system:
          1) I’d keep the due date boxes with bright colors for level 1. On this level, knowing that something is due soon/due now/past due is important for project tracking.
          2) I might also keep the colorful dates for level 2 if the tasks have individual due dates that matter for project tracking. If not, I’d stick to a “status” column (e.g. “not started,” “in progress,” “blocked,” “complete”) to monitor for progress, and assume the milestone due date holds for all tasks in that milestone.
          3) For level 3, I’d definitely skip due dates. I might keep a status column, or might simplify to a ‘done’ checkbox.

          Reply ↓
      2. Dinwar*

        That was my take as well. Having dates for project milestones is pretty standard–it breaks big projects up into manageable pieces, and allows people to see what the actual next step is. Especially since there are often trickle-down effects on the schedule if you blow one deadline. Like, if drafting figures takes an extra two days that either eats into review time or pushes back the review due date by two days.

        If I know the due date is in six months I’m going to put off the project when more urgent things flare up. If I know that MY due date is in three days, even though the overall due date is in six months, I’m going to have a far greater sense of urgency.

        Something like a Gannt chart could come in handy here. You can see the overall project and the individual parts of it. If you do use Excel, as others said, you can color-code it.

        Reply ↓
    7. Debby*

      Not a Project Manager-if it is an Excel spreadsheet, could you or your manager color code it? Review dead lines could be in green, project due date could be in red-those are just some examples :)

      Reply ↓
    8. Artemesia*

      This is classic pert chart stuff. Back in the day the milestones along the way would have a different shape on the chart. could you have a way of distinguishing graphically the final deadline from the check ins along the way? Different font or a special shape that contains the final deadline e.g. deadline is starred but the checkpoints aren’t.

      It is a good idea to have interim steps. so how can you make sure the deadline stands out. It might be as simple as ALL BOLD CAPS if your system doesn’t have shape outlines or other ways to distinguish.

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    9. Strive to Excel*

      I will say – I’m on the page with your boss! If she wants to review Wednesday, Wednesday is the actual due date.

      Reply ↓
    10. anonymouse*

      different software! we use pretty crappy software for scheduling and even it allows us to mute/conceal fields. so people who want to see all those sub-deadlines can see them, but I can set up my view so it only shows the final deadline.

      Reply ↓
    11. Exme*

      If you need this to remain a high-level spreadsheet where each project is only one line, add 2 columns: Next Step, and Next Step Deadline. She can add a single urgent interim date for each project. If she is trying to list more than one interim date, you might consider Project Management tools, something on the simpler like Smartsheet that will let you do expand/collapse lines with multiple substeps that roll up the dates to the main line.

      Reply ↓
  5. Caution: Scars at Work*

    Has anyone dealt with having somewhat obvious scars at work? I’m likely having surgery later this year to remove a benign salivary gland tumor. It’s still early days, so I’m not sure how in depth the surgery will have to be. From what they’ve said in the initial appointment, most of the length of the surgery is due to mapping and avoiding facial nerves. Regardless, the surgery will involve an incision around my ear and down my neck. In pictures I’ve seen (while trying to avoid too much of Dr. Google), they do a good job of making the incision where it’s as least obvious as possible, but still visible at first. I want to figure out ahead of time of how to deal with it at work if it is on the more obvious side, both with colleagues and clients, as I’m in a role with a lot of client face time. I don’t want to make a big deal out of it, especially as it’s not malignant and I’m not in danger, I just want to be prepared.

    Reply ↓
    1. No name yet*

      When I was in graduate school I had an infected cyst removed on my cheek, so I had a giant white bandage on my face for weeks. I could usually tell when people noticed it (it was hard not to!), but very few people actually said anything or asked. (Frankly, I was actually surprised about how few people mentioned it.) When people did ask, I would just cheerfully say that I had minor surgery, but everything was fine. IIRC, I don’t think anyone at work/school asked any other details (people who knew me more personally did, but in ways that fit our relationship). Also, the people who did ask were…those who I already knew had looser boundaries or who tended to be more blunt. So you may well already have a good sense of who’s likely to ask vs. not.

      Reply ↓
      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I have a few closer friends at work who I would probably tell ahead of time anyway, but a cheerful, “I’m all good now, thanks!” sounds like the way to go.

        Reply ↓
    2. GirlieePop*

      My sibling has a seizure disorder and has had some visible injuries (like stitches after hitting their head during a seizure) or incisions after procedures, and they’re always just pretty breezy about it with coworkers. “I had a procedure last week, but it’s not a big deal” or “I had a seizure last week and hit my head, but I’m fine and the stitches come out next week” and then they just change the subject.

      Most people they work with know about their disorder and that they have seizures sometimes so it’s maybe less of a big deal, but even when they were new, just indicating that it’s not a big deal and they’re fine usually worked! If people are pushy after that I think it’s fine to say “It’s really not a big deal and I don’t really want to talk about it.”

      Reply ↓
    3. Thoughts?*

      I have a reconstructed collarbone, an ACL self-harvest/replacement and an ACL donor replacement—the latter 2 both show with all my skirts/most of my dresses, while the collarbone shows with some tops.

      I never said anything to anyone. And few have asked. I figure (like with teenagers’ concerns) how I look is a bigger issue to me than to others—in fact folks can rarely correctly identify if it’s my glasses that have changed, or my haircut!

      And most folks know better than TO ask about physical/body changes. Those who don’t—well I always assume empathetic concern on their side and either answer with a “medical issue now resolved” or DETAILED response about the accident that caused the injuries depending on how spicy I’m feeling/who is asking. When I do the latter, few ever ask again when a new scar appears.

      Reply ↓
    4. ghostlight*

      I have a prominent zipper scar down my chest from 3 different open heart surgeries that shows in any top that isn’t a turtleneck/crewneck. I’ve had some people ask me about it and they are never rude or pushy, and often they have had OHS or their loved one has. That being said, my scar definitely isn’t fresh so I think there’s a bit more of a chance of the ‘are you okay?!’ interaction. But I think handling it casually/breezily is the way to go! If you’re interested in covering it, there are silicone scar sheets you can buy, and you could always wear clothing or accessories to cover it (which I did when my scar was fresh mostly cuz it was it was sensitive).

      Reply ↓
    5. fhqwhgads*

      Most likely, if you just roll with it, so will everyone else. It’d be an incredibly rude person to comment. Incredibly rude people exist, but it’s probably not worth it to plan around them, unless you think it’d throw you off really badly such that you need a reply prepared and practiced.
      I say this as someone who -next week- will see coworkers for the first time after a major surgery with a very conspicuous scar, and I’ve been having anxiety about it EVEN THOUGH I know it’s a very conscientious group who will almost certainly not react in any way.

      Reply ↓
      1. Caution: Scars at Work*

        Thank you! I’m not too worried about my coworkers (they are great!) but I might try to avoid a lot of client meetings for a few weeks if I can. They are also great, but a lot of them are on the older and sometimes ask things others might not.

        Reply ↓
    6. Ask a Manager* Post author

      My husband had thyroid cancer last fall (not the good one, but he had surgery and is cancer-free now) and came out of surgery with a huge incision all the way around the base of his neck. It looked like someone tried to behead him! But really, if someone tried to behead you and you survived, you are super badass. And it was right before Halloween so we just leaned into that.

      But assuming you don’t want to go that route, I think you can just say, “Oh, surgery for something benign, and I’m completely fine!” People really take their cues from you.

      Reply ↓
    7. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I had Mohs surgery on my nose and went back to work the next day. I had a bandage on my nose for a few days and then visible sutures for about a week. One of my coworkers asked if I was ok and that was it – no one said anything else. If someone had I suspect I would have stared them down, which is my usual inadvertent response when someone says or does something startlingly rude. I think it’s a blank look. I have been informed it is – not.

      Reply ↓
    8. VoPo*

      A couple of years ago, I injured myself (mostly my face, including broken teeth and needing stitches in my lip), and I basically just would preempt anything by saying “Hey! Just a heads up, I had an injury but I’m healing well!” and people were good about just moving on from there.

      Reply ↓
  6. LadyMTL*

    I have a low stakes question but I’m curious – is there an expectation to block off time in the Outlook / email calendar for non-work things (e.g. not vacation, or an appointment.) I ask because my mom is presently in the hospital…up until now if I’ve had to hop on to conference calls with her doctors or had to leave work a bit early I’ve just asked for my TL’s okay and that’s it. I don’t block off the time in my Outlook calendar, but I’m wondering if I should? It hasn’t been an issue and I’m not a manager or VP or anyone particularly important, so I think it’s fine if I don’t?

    Reply ↓
    1. Jen with one n*

      I used to block off the time I would leave to pick up my kid (when I was fully remote), and I absolutely block off my personal appointments (including travel time) in my calendar. Otherwise people will just fill the space because they see it as available.

      Reply ↓
      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Exactly. If I don’t block the time, people will fill it. I even have to block buffer time so I can get home from appointments.

        My partner is now back in the office and I have to drive him to the train, so I block the driving time but have a “lmk if urgent” message that’s public (the rest of the calendar is private/just shows “busy”) if anyone needs to call me during that time.

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    2. Not A Project Manager*

      I struggle with this too because at one point I liked to “time block” my tasks! My stance is, if I couldn’t reschedule around a meeting request, I will block off the time – but if I am willing to schedule around my time block, I won’t put it on my calendar. I also don’t put my lunch or errands on my calendar for the same reason. I know there’s an “available” setting for events but in past roles people have found that confusing.

      Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’ve worked with people who regularly blocked off large chunks of their calendar every day with an annotation like “busy – Slack me if urgent” and it worked great.

      Reply ↓
    4. Cj*

      at the CPA firm where I work, you would put this time on your calendar, and just put out of office. it seems to me like the most considerate thing to do for coworkers who might be looking for you, or a response from you.

      Reply ↓
    5. Laggy Lu*

      If people might be looking for you during those times, and typically you would handle one-offs then or be invited to meetings, it would make sense to add it to your calendar. If your typical day-to-day is just email and phone, or working on your own, it’s prob not necessary. It boils down to will you be inconveniencing someone else in doing their job by not being more transparent (understanding why you might not want to appear “away” so much at one time).

      Reply ↓
    6. CherryBlossom*

      It depends on the culture of your company and whether anyone aside from your TL needs to quickly see if you’re available or not.

      If it hasn’t caused issues, it shouldn’t be a problem to keep doing what you’re doing. But if it would help your peace of mind, blocking the time off with a “Private” or “Appointment” is enough.

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    7. Chidi has a stomachache*

      I think this depends on your company culture. In my org we’re all remote, so people use outlook calendars to find time for meetings and send invites. It’s really important that we keep accurate schedules on there, and if there is a time I don’t want to have meetings (like daycare pickup), I block it off. But it sounds like the things you’re okaying with your TL are sort of last-minute? It may not be as required, then, if you’re unlikely to get last-minute invitations to meetings, etc.

      Reply ↓
    8. Diogenes*

      In my organisation, we block off personal appointments on the calendar. Even if we don’t reveal exactly what we’re doing, we want our colleagues to know that we’re unavailable.
      Some people book appointments, but don’t put it on the calendar, so anyone who didn’t know in advance would worry about why they weren’t replying to calls for two hours.

      Even if you don’t want to reveal the exact details (understandable in this case), I still recommend putting something on the calendar even if it’s just HOLD PERSONAL BUSINESS.

      Reply ↓
    9. LadyMTL*

      Thank you everyone for the replies! My company is pretty relaxed as far as having everything noted in the calendar goes, but I think I will start blocking off time if I know about it in advance, or if I’ll be gone for a while. Never hurts to err on the side of caution!

      Reply ↓
    10. RagingADHD*

      The advantage of blocking time as busy or OOO on Outlook is that if you use Teams, it will automatically turn your availability red or X. That way people who aren’t necessarily trying to schedule a meeting but might ping you know that you might not respond right away.

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    11. Calendars*

      I can’t reasonably block off time for some things, especially if blocking it off means your committing to being out – if I have an 11am medical appointment I might get home at 1pm or I might get home at 3 or maybe even 4 every once in a while (thank you public transit). If I’m home at 1pm I want to start working at 1pm so I don’t have to work until 10pm, but I can’t guarantee I’ll be home and working.

      I also have a ton of “if time permits” events on my calendar so some events are blockers and some aren’t. I tell people to ask me for availability.

      Reply ↓
    12. Alex*

      I think this is highly dependent on how your office, and your role, operates. Would anyone come looking for you or expect you to be available for a meeting, AND expect to look to your calendar to tell them that? Then yeah.

      In many roles, though, impromptu leaving an hour or two early doesn’t warrant it.

      Reply ↓
    13. Beth*

      I do for practical reasons. I have meetings with other team members pretty frequently and want people to know that I’m not available in that window. So appointments and calls go on there; lunch does if my day is jam-packed and I really need that specific half hour for eating/stretching; errands don’t, because I can just do them after work if someone needs me during the day.

      If this hasn’t been an issue for you, you’re probably right that it’s fine if you don’t.

      Reply ↓
    14. Je ne sais what*

      It could depend on the sort of thing that usually gets put onto your calendar. As an example, my work is primarily 1:1 meetings with the community that my organization serves; think counseling or tutoring. That community books appointments through a service that is synched with my calendar, similar to calendly, so they just see availability. I’m also responsible for recording notes and organizing programming (events, workshops etc). If I don’t block time out in my calendar to work on those tasks, clients will book every slot the whole day and I won’t get it done! So I’ll often block things with captions like “focus on *project*” or “admin time” etc. I’m also a toddler mom, so non-work things get blocked sometimes too. We do highly collaborative work, so it is generally important that folks know if I’m available or not. We’re almost all FTE, so time reporting is less important, I don’t run it by anyone before blocking it off. I tend to differentiate between “focus time” where I can be pinged or will see the email vs medical appointments etc. I usually mark those as “out of office” or something.

      I guess to your question, I would think about whether there’s a business reason for people to know you’re unavailable. Do you get questions or requests from coworkers regularly that need to be answered right away, or is your work primarily between you and your manager? Lastly, will your manager remember that you’re unavailable if it’s not notated on your calendar?

      Reply ↓
    15. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My manager requests that we block times that we are unavailable to him during our work hours on our calendar, just so he knows not to book meetings at those times if he can help it. (No details, just “private” or whatever.)

      When I was managing, I encouraged but didn’t require my team members to do that because we were a low-meeting high-flexibility team, but if they were unable to attend a meeting I scheduled because of something they didn’t put on their calendars, they were responsible for following up with me to get the info.

      Reply ↓
    16. Jaydee*

      For me it depends on how long it will be and if it’s at a set time (virtually join the care conference at 10:00 on Thursday) or if it’s more of a fluid thing (we’ll have the doctor call you this afternoon).

      I’ll put it on my calendar if it’s a fixed time, but I’m not going to block off a 2.5 hour window for a call that will likely take less than 10 minutes. If someone schedules a meeting during that window, I’ll usually just let them know I’m happy to meet but might need to step off/mute suddenly because I’m expecting a call that I’ll need to take.

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    17. some dude*

      I block my time for picking up my kid from school and appointments during work hours so people don’t schedule during them. It depends on your work culture and how many meetings you are expected to attend. I spend half my time in meetings, so blocking off non-meeting time is essential. At a prior job I almost never had meetings so wouldn’t block my time off.

      Reply ↓
    18. SophieChotek*

      Yes at my job I would say the expectation would be to block off the time
      Similarly as others have pointed out, if working on a project / not to be disturbed but could be available, with similar messaging “contact if urgent” (and hope people gauge “urgent” correctly)

      Reply ↓
    19. thatsjustme*

      It’s gonna depend on the culture at your organization. For me, there’s not much point. I’m supposed to be off work Tuesdays and Wednesdays (because I work Saturdays and Sundays) and have that time blocked off as “out of office” on my calendar, but boss’s boss or HR will still schedule meetings on my days off, my direct reports will still tag me alongside the other managers when submitting assignments, and I just have to decide what to ignore and what’s important enough to make me log on during my day off.

      At other jobs, though, people would block out an hour for lunch, a one-off PTO day, a vactation — basically any time when they’re not available.

      Reply ↓
  7. hmmm*

    Alright this is definitely a cross between professional and personal. I have a lifelong hobby that I am trying to turn into a business. It is for a handmade item. Before taking the plunge officially I am testing things out in places like Etsy, local craft fairs, etc. So far I have had an extremely positive response! Yeah! If all goes according to plan, in 2-3 years I will be able to do this full time. This business is a goal I have literally been working on for decades and now have the time and money to devote to it.

    The item I am making requires a template, pattern and/ or design (TPD). Creating TPDs is my least favorite thing to do. Creating TPDs is also a very challenging task that some people go to school for years to do. Sadly I do not have the talent to create TPDs. I tend to scour the internet and brick & mortar stores for places to buy unique TPDs. I work with a lot of designers, copyrights, etc. These TPDs cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of budgeting financially to acquire these however if you wait for sales they are quite reasonably priced. I usually stack up when there is a sale. In addition if you look hard enough (even a local library) you can get some of the TPDs for free. That’s how I got started! As I said this is a lifelong hobby. Given that I am in my late 40s you can imagine I have acquired quite a selection of TPDs.

    This is also a hobby that I have not only been able to earn money off of, but also do it for relaxation and mental health chill out time. As a hobby I belong to a lot of related online and in person groups. The thing is in these hobby groups, people are always asking me to share TPDs. Don’t get me wrong if I am allowed to share, I will – within not violating copyrights, trademarks and the designers I work with. I too have even have taken ideas from group shared TPDs. Yes I do share when I can. If I can’t share a TPD I will reference them to somewhere/ someone they can get the TPD. However some of these group members seem annoyed that I won’t share some of my more unique TPDs.

    How do I get across that for me this is almost like sharing a trade secret; I’ve worked hard to financially get these TPDs for potential future work; I also know a lot of the TPD designers are also looking to make a living off these TPDs. I know I am not officially a “professional” but I am trying to start a business the right way. Maybe I need to find some more professional groups but I do enjoy the hobby aspect. How do I navigate this?!

    Reply ↓
    1. Expert, But Not Your Expert*

      Not exactly the same, but I participate in a lot of industry forums where people love to ask for extremely detailed advice or document templates that are, essentially, free consulting work. A lot of people who are asking these kinds of questions don’t know what they don’t know. They’re asking for something difficult and labor intensive because they are entry level, and they’ve been tasked with something way above their paygrade. They don’t know how to do it themselves, so they don’t know that it takes a lot of time, and they don’t have the $$ or authority to buy what they need or get someone to do it for them.

      You can’t really get through to these kinds of people because they just don’t get it. They are not going to take it personally and hate you forever. Let them live in their own frustration and figure it out. If it’s not a direct request, I scroll past. If it’s a direct question to me, I just say “I don’t have a template that I can share/any more detailed information I can give you, but I recommend XYZ website/ABC book for more detail.” If someone really presses, I’d say “You’re asking me to do free work for you/give you something that I paid money for. I’m not going to do that – in this hobby, you need to either use free resources that are available, make your own, or pay for a paid resource”.

      Reply ↓
    2. Pomodoro Sauce*

      Could you say, cheerfully, “Oh, I think I got this from Vendor, I can forward you their shop — they do really great work!” and then if they push back say “I wouldn’t feel right undermining their business like that — if they can’t afford to stay in business I’m out of luck!”

      Reply ↓
    3. Admin of Sys*

      If the TPD’s you have are under someone’s copyright, and you have bought usage rights, just hold fast to the law. “Sorry, can’t pirate those for you. I bought it. They’re intellectual property of (x), here’s a link where you can also buy it.” Sure, some people will complain, but some people have no regards for intellectual property.
      But especially if you are getting into the business, you can use that as part of the pushback. “It wouldn’t be right for me, as a new professional, to violate the law on this” Folks are often a lot more accepting of having to ‘toe the line’ when there’s a business involved, even if it’s a personal business. (note: people shouldn’t be pressuring you regardless, and thank you for not pirating the tpds) And just because you aren’t yet making money on it doesn’t mean you’re not yet a professional. Entrepreneurs often have years where they’re not yet breaking even, that doesn’t mean it’s not a business.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        If they still complain, once the IP aspect is explained to them, they have moved into “Telling you who they are.” Territory. Believe them.

        Reply ↓
    4. Jinni*

      I work in publishing. When designers create unique work for you (fonts, logos, designs), the contracts specify that it can’t be sold or given away. Can you say that?
      “It’s a custom/contracted design that can’t be sold or given away without violating my agreement with the designer?”
      I don’t know the tone of your community because this is well established in my circles, but just a thought.

      Reply ↓
      1. UpstateDownstate*

        Oh I like this…’I paid to have it customized but I’m glad you like it. Here is the info for the seller…’

        Reply ↓
    5. Reba*

      In the days when we mainly listened to music on CDs, but online file sharing was starting up, I had a colleague with an *amazing* collection and great taste in music. He would lend albums or books of CDs to people, but required a firm agreement that you would not rip the albums to MP3s. He was a musician and considered this a way that he defended his peers/industry ability to make a living.

      I think you should just politely say that you don’t give out pattern files. People have a very wild sense of what they ought to be able to get for free! Let them be mad. You don’t need these online posters to be your friends. You need patternmakers to stay in business.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ama*

        I am a graphic designer in the knit and crochet industry so I know exactly what you mean. I have people in my knit night who share paid patterns among themselves and because I know how much work goes into those patterns (and how pattern designers are often paying people like me to make those patterns look good on top of their own work), I just can’t in good conscience participate unless I know it’s a free pattern or it’s no longer for sale (I do have a collection of vintage out of print patterns I let people make copies of) .

        What I do is if someone asks me to share a pattern that’s still for sale is to very pleasantly say “oh it’s my personal policy to only share free or out of print patterns, but you can check the designer’s website, they may have a discount code” (this is common in knitting patterns).

        Reply ↓
    6. Indolent Libertine*

      “Sorry, this one was quite expensive and it’s still copyrighted. You can purchase it at (link) if you like.”

      Reply ↓
  8. CherryBlossom*

    I was here a few weeks ago with a tricky situation, so I thought I’d give a quick update!

    Context: I was working a temp job where the main project I was brought on for was over. Not only was I not doing anything, I was blocked from taking on more tasks and was forbidden from doing anything to pass the time. It was extreme enough that I was not to write in a notebook, use headphones for music/audiobooks, or browse the web (Currently hiding in a bathroom on my phone). I was also actively checked to make sure I was complying. My manager was sympathetic, but ultimately unable to help, as all these rules were coming from the C-Suite.

    The assignment was almost over, but coming in to do truly nothing was taking a toll on my mental health. I dreaded waking up in the morning, and I’d asked here if I should quit right then, or wait out the last two weeks of my assignment.

    The comments here were split 50/50 on leaving versus staying. I talked it over with some friends, and ultimately landed on staying the last two weeks for the extra security the paychecks would bring. With everything going on right now, I do feel better knowing my safety net is bigger than before.

    I won’t lie, these last two weeks have been brutal. I’ve felt sluggish and numb and all the other words when a depressive episode really hits. But today, my last day, I feel a hint of excitement! It’s almost over, I have plans with friends this weekend to celebrate, and I’ve already got a few job interviews lined up!

    So while I’m not “proud of myself for hanging in there” or anything silly like that, I’m glad I held out for the money, and am taking steps to shake off the awful funk I’ve been in for the past two months. Happy Friday, everyone!

    Reply ↓
    1. Double A*

      This proves that “getting paid to sit around on your ass” is actually not a great thing! Take that money and run.

      Reply ↓
    2. crookedglasses*

      I didn’t comment, but I remember seeing that thread. It sounds like it was absolutely brutal.

      Congrats on making it through, and that you’ve reached the light at the end of the tunnel!

      Reply ↓
    4. RagingADHD*

      I’m glad you got the money and can leave!

      I do hope you warn the temp agency about that place, though. That’s awful and nobody should be treated like that.

      Reply ↓
    5. Nebula*

      What on Earth was their logic on that one? They wouldn’t let you do any more work for them? They specifically wanted to pay you to sit around and do literally nothing? I cannot wrap my head around this. Think you did the right thing just taking the money but Jesus Christ, what a weird situation.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I missed the previous thread, but I can guess. The Powers That Be are keeping them around because it is in the budget. Use it or lose it. TPTB aren’t giving them any other tasks because there really aren’t any within the scope of the project. Giving them tasks outside that project would screw up the budgeting. TPTB won’t let them do anything else because of appearances, as other employees would notice.

        Were TPTB sensible, they would pay off the contract and tell them to go home. Had I seen the previous thread, I would have recommended they show up in the morning, make sure they are seen, then disappear for a few hours. Repeat until the end of the day. This would run the risk that TPTB would notice and not pay them, but they were already considering just walking. And it is entirely likely that TPTB would be quietly happy with the disappearances, as this would remove the problem of keeping up appearances while keeping the budget intact.

        Reply ↓
        2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          ok but why wouldn’t they allow OP to listen to music or write in a notebook or anything. It sounds like they just had to sit their and do nothing.

          Reply ↓
      2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I’m wondering if they were doing it on purpose to try and get her to leave. Like maybe they have a contract with the temp agency, but they are hoping that if the person leaves they can show that the temp workers are unreliable and leave before the times up. So maybe they can break the contract or something.

        Reply ↓
    6. just tired*

      I will never understand not letting people do ANYTHING to pass the time, that’s silly. You’re supposed to just stare at the walls?

      Reply ↓
  9. noncommitally anonymous*

    I’ve been doing my former boss’ job for nearly a year now. Her job just got posted. Yay! I’m planning on applying.
    The issues:
    1. My colleague notified some of his former buddies in industry (we’re in state gov) who sent in their resumes early. I heard that the hiring manager started doing phone screens on them before the job was actually posted, which has annoyed the heck out of me. Isn’t that illegal for a state job? I really, REALLY do not want to work for one of those guys.
    2. The grand boss has apparently expressed doubt that I have the correct qualifications for the position, since I don’t have the job title they’re looking for. Except that job title is NOT listed as a qualification in the job ad. It would be impossible for me to have that job title, as no one at my location has it. Plus, I’ve been doing the job for nearly a year.
    3. I am completely stuck on the cover letter. How do you write a cover letter to a group of people who already know you?

    Reply ↓
    1. GigglyPuff*

      1. yeah that is really bypassing all hiring rules, least it was with my state HR. I couldn’t even get a former intern’s resume thru because they answered one of the questions in a way that disqualified them.
      3. As someone who has gone thru internal hiring, absolutely treat it like it’s not. On the resume, the cover letter, and in an interview. Assume they know nothing about you or what you’ve worked on.

      Reply ↓
    2. Sangamo Girl*

      1. Only if it is forbidden by statute or policy in your state. It is in mine, but every state is different.
      2. Are they truly just looking at job titles or rather duties? While job duties, state hiring can be a mind-numbing experience that drives logic right out the window.
      3. The same way you would write a cover letter for any other job. Don’t reiterate what is in your resume. Amplify soft skills, other experiences, information that adds to the entire package.
      4. Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    3. Pomodoro Sauce*

      The state work cover letter for an in-department promotion can be a hard line to walk! You need to hit all the talking points for screening (and it can be helpful to know if screening is done by HR or similar) but you also have to share a version of your work accomplishments that doesn’t ruffle the feathers of your current management. It feels hard because it’s a hard line to walk.

      If your state’s application process is a bit onerous, some hiring managers will walk good outside candidates through the application process and what to expect where. It’s a little sketchy but I wouldn’t say it’s definitive.

      I am in a situation where I work for a state government and did my boss’s job for over a year, did good work, and then got passed over due to job title reasons. The person they hired instead of me is not a great fit and is advocating for the position to be changed to my job title after he leaves — if the same happens to you I’d advocate a very professional “I’m glad to step back and do only my position now! It’s been a stressful year covering both positions!” and then give 70% at work and let the chips fall where they may.

      Reply ↓
    4. Annika Hansen*

      In my state, you must meet each listed requirement to be considered. I know many other government position are similar. Make it easy for the resume reviewers. So for my cover letter, I do something like:

      Salutation

      Niceties – like I am excited to apply blah blah. Here is how my experiences aligns with this position:

      Requirement 1: How I meet it
      Requirement 2: How I meet it
      And so on also including any desired but not required qualification.

      Closing Niceties

      Reply ↓
      1. MsSolo (UK)*

        And STAR format it! Even in a cover letter, a specific example of how you’ve met it and the positive results that followed impress much more.

        Reply ↓
  10. Laggy Lu*

    This might be too niche a question, but here goes:
    Does anyone have a template for mapping across different groups/agencies that operate in the same space, whether competitively or complementary?
    I’m just going to illustrate what I am trying to do, rather than covering with teapots or llamas, because it’s too hard otherwise.
    I am currently looking at the organizations, globally that are operating in Net Zero targets/CO2 offsets/calculations and implementation for corporations space. There are various attributes of orgs, such as those that set standards, those that act as oversight bodies, those that support collaborations on implementation, etc. It’s a small world right now, but there are still a ton of actors. I am trying to make a sort of reference guide, both for me and my coworkers.
    I’d love to make something visual that shows where each one overlaps and/or stands out among the others. Before I go it alone (I don’t have any software other than Office), I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of templates I could use that might save me some time.
    Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Somebody may have already done this for you. Use search terms like “compare XYZ Corp and ABC corp” or “rank CO2 offset consultants” etc. I would not be surprised if somebody like Gartner has a publication on this.

      Reply ↓
    2. HappyMarketer*

      Maybe have a look at the LUMAscape from Luma partners – they do this for the marketing/advertising space. They are a bit mind boggling but that’s often quite a nice thing to illustrate. The overlap bit is a challenge but you might be able to blur line / put things in multiple boxes.

      Reply ↓
  11. Punching Bag*

    I was out sick on Monday. I texted big boss and my manager “John”. A few hours later John texted me saying that I needed to include another manager “Maria” on the text next time to let her know that I’d be absent. (Maria isn’t my manager and I’ve never included her before and no one has ever said anything.) Then in the evening John sent a message saying that I had “too much overtime” and said that I needed to instead just work my “established work hours.”

    I spoke with big boss and she said that she would talk to John and Maria. Well when I came back to the office on Tuesday, John and Maria went to talk to Big Boss about how I have been “taking too much time off.” Big Boss talked with them and just told me that there’s a lot going on in the office project wise. (I have about 5 weeks of PTO. Everyone else takes time off- not sure why I’m the only one getting push back about it.)

    John and Maria will talk about me loudly so I can hear it. (I sit next to Maria’s office.) Maria was swearing about something and John was laughing. They’re obnoxious.

    My workplace is toxic, but why are they starting stuff like this? I don’t know what I did to tick them off, but they clearly have it out for me. I’m worried that they’re either trying to bully me out of a job or get me fired.

    I’m applying to places, but haven’t found anything yet. Until I can leave, what do I do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Uh oh, this is annoying. But it’s good that the Big Boss seemingly has your back. Do you have any sense of if your PTO use is standard? Are you new? I would carefully document all the leave you’ve taken and if you have any way to prove it’s typical and normal (can you ask HR/the big boss/anyone else what is the normal amount of leave for a staff member in your position to be using?).

      Reply ↓
      1. Punching Bag*

        I’ve always been told that as long as we have time available, we can use it. I’ve checked the employee handbook and there are no restrictions. I’ve provided big boss copies of Dr’s notes for appointments.

        Reply ↓
        1. Not A Project Manager*

          Well, but are you new? are you actually taking a lot of time off? There’s generally an “unspoken expectation” about such things from the manager.

          Reply ↓
    2. Aggretsuko*

      Sometimes people decide they don’t like you and will do everything they can to take you out. It doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do, you were just who they wanted to target. :(

      Been there, done this, all you can do is endure the pain until they win or you find another job.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cookie Monster*

      I would ask to have a conversation with John and ask him in a genuinely confused/curious tone, “I’m aware you’re concerned I’m taking too much time off. So far this year, I’ve taken X days out of my available 5 weeks. I try to be conscientious about not taking time off during busy times or when others are also out [or whatever makes sense here]. Is there a reason you think I’m taking off too much time? Is there a way you’d like me to handle it differently?”

      But really try to ask as if you’re genuinely curious. Of course, the point is to force John to think of explicit reasons why it’s a problem, not just make broad complaints about you. But if he can’t think of any or comes up with something vague, you can say something like “Going forward, I’ll try to make sure my time off isn’t too convenient for anyone. But I do want to use this part of my benefits package, just like everyone else does.”

      Reply ↓
    4. fhqwhgads*

      They’re telling you that you both work too much and aren’t in enough? They effin’ suck. They’re illogical asshats who should be ignored to the extent is possible. Perfectly polite to them. Work with Big Boss as much as is practical in the meantime.

      Reply ↓
  12. Diogenes*

    Weird question, but we’ve discussed dress codes at work. Our dress code is minimal, with a few additional rules for customer-facing staff. Senior management wants everyone to bring their “whole selves to work”, which some have interpreted to include cultural clothing. We’ve noticed that the Royal Navy allows officers to wear the sari at formal events. There’s also a view that the western business suit has been discredited recently.
    Some of us have discussed resurrecting formal historical clothing. You may have read about the siren suit, a formal version of a boiler suit.
    We have employees with Greek and Italian heritage. Seeing as Ancient Greece & Italy get more respect than the modern countries, maybe we should bring back the chiton, exomis, toga, stola, caliga, and tunica as optional formal clothing.
    I asked a history enthusiast outside the organisation. He said that if the toga was good enough for the Senate and the People of Rome, then it’s more than good enough for a modern office. By that logic, if (item of clothing) is good enough for Pythagoras/ Hatshepsut/ Suleyman the Magnificent/ Jadwiga of Poland/ Ashurbanipal, then it’s good enough for a bunch of office workers. However, he would have the historical rules, like restricting a white toga with a purple stripe to politicians & magistrates.
    Reception has been mostly positive, but we’ve ruled out wearing the linothorax or lorica segmentata. Maybe dressing like an ancient soldier could cause allegations of military impersonation?
    No one has actually done it, yet, I must add.
    Could this revival of old formal clothing have potential?
    Or are we all mad?

    Reply ↓
        1. Bella Ridley*

          The RN regulations stipulate that sari can be worn under a mess jacket at a formal function, similar to how the kilt can be worn at a formal function. How does this affect you in any way?

          Reply ↓
        2. fhqwhgads*

          Wearing sari isn’t mad.
          Intentionally trying to bring back historical clothing that has not been worn by anyone in regular practice in hundreds or thousands of years is.
          It’s unclear if you’re asking about “potential” in the sense that you genuinely want to wear these clothes and are coming up with justifications for doing so, or if you’re suggesting doing those things as a way to suggest it is somehow silly for someone to wear their own culture’s present day formalwear. If the goal is to cosplay at work, that’s a bit silly. If the goal is to mock someone else’s formalwear just because it is different from your own culture’s formalwear, that’s xenophobic and rude.

          Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      A propos user name.

      Short answer: you’re mad. Most of those really ancient clothing styles you mentioned don’t have pockets, aren’t good for cold climates, are easily subject to wardrobe malfunctions, aren’t safe around power tools or shredders, etc.

      Save it for Halloween or the Greek fair.

      I have a formal kilt. I’ll wear it to a Ren Fest, Christmas Eve service at the Episcopal Church, and Halloween. I would not wear a formal kilt or a utilikilt to the office as a regular thing.

      Reply ↓
      1. Diogenes*

        I chose Diogenes since he’d ignore all dress codes.

        I don’t know about cold climates. The Romans adapted fairly quickly.

        Thanks though. The core problem though is that the business suit is out, so we would want a replacement. What would you think of the siren suit?

        Reply ↓
        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          So you want something formal or semi-formal that isn’t Western European/American circa 1900-2000. And you probably want something that’s mostly gender-neutral.

          Why can’t khakis and a long-sleeve shirt (w/ or w/o logo) do that?

          A Beau Brummel suit, a frock coat and top hat, or a Renaissance particolor doublet and hose are also historically accurate and formal, but you didn’t mention any of those.

          I feel like you’re trolling us.

          Reply ↓
          1. Diogenes*

            I can understand why you’d think that. If I’m honest, I avoided posting here about this topic for weeks as I was unsure how I could say it without it looking like trolling. It wasn’t until the news stories that I thought it was time to try posting it.

            Reply ↓
        2. Richard Hershberger*

          Romans and cold climates: Yes, they adapted, by not dressing like they were still in Rome. Pants may be barbarian, but they work better in a colder climate.

          Reply ↓
      2. Angstrom*

        I’ll wear a kilt as “normal” clothing, and I think they should be allowed in most office dress codes, but they are a much better garment for walking than they are for sitting.

        Ancient clothing styles can also present challenges in modern restrooms.

        If an office already had a casual Friday culture, I can see opening it to non-modern-Western options once a month or so.

        Reply ↓
    3. Joielle*

      I’ll be honest, if someone tried that at my work I would think it was a protest against DEI. Along the lines of “If those people get to wear their ridiculous costumes to work then I’m going to wear a toga! You can’t stop me, I’m a quarter Greek!”

      If that’s not what you’re going for, I wouldn’t do it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Diogenes*

        That’s interesting. This all started after a DEI event, but in support. We have noticed that AI image generators seem to associate ‘Greek’ with the ancient world… but then again AI image generators are also mad.

        I can see what you mean though. It was never brought up before, but that’s why I asked for external opinions! Thanks.

        Reply ↓
      2. CherryBlossom*

        Yeah; this question is so out there, I can’t tell if it’s trolling or not. But I also see them answering other people’s questions here so I’ll try to take it in good faith that this is legit.

        I say this as a fan/wearer of historical and alt fashion; save it for the weekend. Weird interpretation of “Bring your whole self to work” aside, there’s a huge gulf between a suit and cultural clothing that’s still appropriate for work that you can settle in. If this really matters to you, take the time to research those options instead of just defaulting for the first garments you think of for Ancient Greece/Rome.

        Reply ↓
      3. Cynthia*

        Yeah, that was my reaction, too. The sari isn’t just historical formal wear, it’s formal wear right now for over a billion people, and not equivalent to wearing a toga. I’m not aware of the western business suit being any more discredited than it’s been in the last hundred years or so, but I would welcome more information about that.

        As for the siren suit, sure, go ahead and wear it, but I think you’re missing the point of why Churchill wore it instead of a suit during WWII: he was showing solidarity with the suffering of his constituents, the same reason that Zelensky dresses like he does, even to high-stakes meetings.

        I know a lot of people who wear historical clothing, to express their personality or make a statement, and there’s a considerable social cost attached. People will be much less interested in your reasons for wearing a siren suit than you might expect.

        Reply ↓
        1. Diogenes*

          (Last comment from me about this topic. Good hour-long discussion amongst people that I don’t know, but I have to get on with other things now.)

          The siren suit would be fine for me. I’m not sure Churchill’s reason was entirely solidarity, but also practicality. The reason that some of us think that the business suit is discredited is linked to Zelensky. Perhaps unfairly, the fuss over him meeting Trump and Vance while not wearing a business suit has tainted the business suit by association.

          Reply ↓
        2. Reba*

          Yes it’s the conflation of contemporary clothing from different communities/parts of the world with historical (ancient!) costumes that is really eyebrow-raising. Like, to find a parallel to formal saree you would not be looking at Hatshepsut’s* linen but at living Egyptians’ galabeya and headscarves.

          These ideas are not at all equivalent. LARPing doesn’t belong in most workplaces.

          *interesting you raised this example as Hatshepsut famously cross-dressed in male pharaonic clothing

          Reply ↓
    4. Amber Rose*

      This is considerably overthinking the dress code and the concept of your whole self.

      Your whole self likely does not usually include ancient ancestral clothing, so unless you can seriously convince me that you already have togas in your closet that you regularly wear in your free time, I’m calling BS. Many, many things that were “good enough for the people of Rome” are no longer appropriate, because that’s how the passage of time works.

      Reply ↓
    5. ThatGirl*

      Cultural clothing should be allowed if it’s currently being worn by that culture, but I have yet to see anyone wear a toga outside of a costume party.

      Reply ↓
    6. Lola*

      Yep, all mad.
      I’d be willing to bet a large percentage of people involved are doing it as a funny thought exercise and excentricity.

      You guys started from “bring your whole self to work”. That would apply to current culture of the employees, not the cultural artifacts from a few millenia ago.
      On the other hand I’m all for blurring the line between formal clothing and just clothing, so the siren suit could be nice!

      Reply ↓
      1. Diogenes*

        In a way, that was that I was hoping for. Could the siren suit work? Yes.

        Is it a thought experiment? Yes, it was, but it was a very powerful one that stuck around for weeks after being reinforced by other things.
        The siren suit got discussed by everyone after recent news stories. Things kind of spiralled from there, digging further into history, going back to the ancient world.

        Reply ↓
    7. HannahS*

      My friend, you are down a rabbit hole and should climb out. The idea that a public-facing employee wearing a historical item of clothing in an office building on a random Tuesday is somehow equivalent to a woman wearing formal attire from their home culture/country to a formal military event is absurd.

      Reply ↓
    8. Llellayena*

      Cultural clothing for your current, modern culture makes sense to allow (with exceptions for cultural outfits that violate local laws or your current “minimal” dress code, like some of the warmer climates that have way more exposed skin than legally permitted locally). However, reviving ancient styles that are not in line with modern accepted styles seems like a step too far and clothing should be practical for the job being done. I would not wear a corseted renaissance dress if I was in IT and going to be crawling under desks, for instance. However, we do have corset tops in modern clothing so if it’s allowed in your dress code then wearing a corset and skirt for a regular desk job should be fine (breathing when sitting might become a thing so a sit-stand desk could be useful). Togas don’t have a current modern equivalent (to my knowledge) so that seems like it would reach too far. Saris are both acceptable daily wear AND formalwear though cultural appropriation means that it’s limited to the cultures for whom that’s normal dress. Kimono should be fine (remember the cultural appropriation though) but may be impractical for many jobs. There are reasons that clothing styles within a culture evolve and what was “too casual” or “too formal” becomes “just right”. As long as the clothing is practical for the work and not overly distracting as “too far from normal” have fun.

      Reply ↓
    9. RagingADHD*

      Cool thoughts, but I think you may have overlooked the fact that culture is alive and changes. The clothing that one’s parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents wore at cultural celebrations while you were growing up, or that represents a living practice in your country of origin, is cultural clothing. Saris are a living practice. Togas are not.

      A single person or small group doing academic research into historical dress and recreating it, is a hobby called historical costuming, or the lightweight version, historybounding.

      Wearing historical costumes at work is not formal dress in any culture, any more than wearing a Sexy Vampire or Fallout costume at work. Historybounding might pass as work-appropriate, if well chosen. But it isn’t going to be widely adopted as a work norm.

      But if you all want to take up historical costuming as a hobby, and your job is amenable to let you practice your hobby in the office, more power to you! I would love it if my job let me wear my Regency ballgown to work.

      Reply ↓
      1. Flor*

        All of this.

        The wearing of a sari to a formal event is more on par with the kilt which, if this is the British Royal Navy we’re talking about, I believe has always been allowed. It’s not akin to showing up in a dress from the second bustle era.

        Reply ↓
    10. Peregrine*

      I like this idea! I don’t think it’d happen, but as a lover of fashion and especially historical fashion, and someone who feels most dress codes are arbitrary, I think it’s fun. Also a good thought process as to why certain clothing is considered formal or office appropriate and other clothing isn’t, when in other cultures and other time periods it was very different.

      Reply ↓
    11. Generic Name*

      In order to bring my whole self to work, I will now start wearing sweatpants, a hoodie, and my slippers to the office.

      Reply ↓
    12. Rex Libris*

      I’m waiting for someone to argue wearing a fig leaf to work as an expression of their religious
      beliefs…

      Reply ↓
    13. Ellis Bell*

      Yeah, I see how you’ve used the logic that these modes of dress were once formal, so why are they not still.. but you can’t really apply logic to something like dress codes. Workplace dress is run by convention, not logic. The main idea is to be less remarkable and much less noticeable than the norm. That’s why anything too fashion-y and outre is usually sidelined for off duty activities. I think it would come across as a fancy dress (costume) party, but one I would like to go to.

      Reply ↓
    14. Twinklefae*

      If this is something that actually interests you, check out the concept of “history bounding” which comes from a Youtuber called Morgan Donner. It’s (obviously) based on Disney bounding, where you take elements of something and then change them enough that you are still able to live your modern life.

      Reply ↓
    15. Richard Hershberger*

      Chitons and togas came in different forms. Some chitons would be inappropriate for the office as showing too much skin. As for togas, early togas were pretty straightforward, but they evolved into great masses of cloth that were uncomfortable and difficult to put on. As for armor, have you ever worn armor? I have, in the historical reenactment context. It is not made for comfort or flexibility. The idea of sitting at a desk working on a computer while wearing it is utterly impractical. For that matter, even back in the day they didn’t wear it unless there was a specific reason to.

      Reply ↓
      1. RagingADHD*

        An Edwardian tea gown, on the other hand, would be both fabulous and comfortable for sitting around in.

        Reply ↓
    16. WantonSeedStitch*

      On the off-chance that this isn’t trolling: a sari is a garment worn every day by many people in modern times. It is not a historical costume. There is no equivalence here.

      Reply ↓
  13. Amber Rose*

    Excel experts, I’m confused.

    Having passed a pre-screen for a job, I was asked to complete a small Excel skills test prior to the interview with the manager. It was just like, clean this data, make a chart, do some conditional formatting, etc. In hindsight I think I did poorly overall anyway because it was weirdly set up, but there’s one part I’m still baffled by.

    I was given two columns with 12 different rows that seemed to be counting numbers of records. Like, TPS Reports -> 25. Time Sheets -> 88. That kind of thing. And then I was asked to turn it into a pivot table. Now, I’m used to making pivot tables for data entries ranging from the hundreds to the thousands. I got pretty good at it. I even got pretty good at defining relations so I could make pivot tables from disconnected tables (admittedly not in Excel but still).

    I do not understand how to make a pivot table for 12 things that are all completely different. I mean, I know HOW, I just have no idea why you would do such a thing, what it would tell you, or what it should look like. And the next question was what conclusions I pulled from it? The only conclusion I came to was that someone in this situation does not understand pivot tables.

    Is it me? Do I not get what pivot tables are good for or what the heck?

    Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        I don’t think so, since they were asking what business decisions I’d make based off the results. Its just that the results were the exact same data represented in the same way, but now in a pivot table.

        I’m also a little worried that this is indicating that the hiring manager is unreasonable in their expectations.

        Reply ↓
    2. SoloKid*

      Pivoting a 2×12 flat data table is just transposing it lol. I would have literally answered “There are no discrete categories here to aggregate.”

      Did they want you do to some detective work like finding any hidden columns or something?

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        The finding of hidden things was part of the data cleaning process, but there was no additional data there, just empty columns and some weird merged cells and formatting errors.

        I guess if I am asked about it during the interview I’ll use your wording. Or maybe I’ll bring it up proactively. I’m so confused about what they wanted to see.

        Reply ↓
    3. former recruiter*

      Maybe they realized it was non-sensical but wanted to see if you could just *do* a pivot table. Then your answer could have been – it doesn’t make sense and I wouldn’t recommend using a pivot table for this because none of the data seemed to correlate!

      Reply ↓
    4. Cabbagepants*

      You could do a Pivot table that disregards the category and just gives summary statistics of the numeric data.

      Reply ↓
  14. Not a Hatchet*

    Has anyone been in a position where part of their job involved coming into a business as third-party and determining which executives need to go?

    Context, I’m starting a job where I’m sort of a “fixer” for small companies and startups that want to grow into “real companies”. Ideally this would mostly revolve around helping them with business norms, pivoting their product strategy, helping with hiring good engineers, etc – but occasionally needing to say “this department head isn’t working out”. But it is looking like the first few projects in my pipeline are going to require replacing some executives / department heads and that it’ll be a much bigger part of my job than what I thought I had signed up for. Small places apparently tend to hire people who are very unqualified for their executive positions. Some examples of department heads: no people managing experience, HR head with no prior HR experience or knowledge of employment law, a “how hard can product be?” person who talks a good game. (It is spawning a program to help small places with hiring such roles to avoid getting to this point)

    There will be no PIPs, no options for demotions – looking to hear from others who have been in this position. This is purely executives though they might not have many reports (if any) – individual contributors are safe. Maybe I’m just nervous now that I’ve given notice at my last job and about to start a new one.

    Reply ↓
    1. Mouse*

      First of all, this is my dream job! Not necessarily firing, nobody loves that, but organizational change/operational improvement in general. I’d love to hear more details about the role and how you got it!

      I’m in operational improvement consulting now, and some of the things I’d recommend include:
      -Spans & layers analysis: this can shed a lot of light on the “missing stairs” in an organization
      -Lots and lots of interviews: just talking to people can often give a lot of insights if you can read between the lines
      -Talk to each exec about their KPIs. If they don’t have any, what would they recommend? You can learn a lot from what people tell you about how they want to be measured.

      Reply ↓
      1. PX*

        Like you, I’d love to hear about how Not a Hatchet got their job, but I’d also love to know how you got yours in operational improvement consulting! Definitely an area I’d love to get into someday.

        Reply ↓
        1. Mouse*

          Mine was a typical post-MBA consulting path. I was always more interested in fixing existing structures within a company than growth strategy/building out new things, so I focused on companies and practices that aligned with that when I was recruiting.

          Reply ↓
    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      No direct experience, but keep in mind you are only making recommendations – you do not own the decisions. The client does. You are reporting on observations and assessments and sharing recommendations. So who does and does not lose their job is not your actual decision nor is it your fault. They own their performance, skills and contributions. Management owns the decision. Additionally, for what it is worth, as an exec you generally understand that your job is at the companies discretion. You generally don’t get put on PIPs.

      Reply ↓
  15. anon today*

    I’m curious to hear from folks who have worked in both Canada and the US what the differences are in workplace norms and culture.

    As context – I currently work in HR in the US and most of my experience has been with small to medium non-profits and startups. My partner is a Canadian citizen and we’re seriously considering making a move. My initial thought had been “Oh no all of my professional expertise is grounded in US employment law and norms, this skillset is useless abroad” but I am finding more and more that makes it seem like it might not be as hopeless as I’d initially thought.

    Thank you!

    Reply ↓
    1. also anon for this*

      Oh, great question! I’m afraid I don’t have any answers but will be eagerly lurking as I am in a similar situation.

      Reply ↓
    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Granted, I’ve not worked in Canada nor do I have HR experience…but I have to imagine it’s a similar learning curve as if you were to move from your current state to a different state. There would likely be some different laws to learn and adjust to, right? So you’d be moving from a state to a province, and then learning the difference at the federal level as well?

      This may be a naive take, but I don’t think its unmanageable!

      Reply ↓
    3. basil and thyme*

      I’ve worked both in the US and in Canada; I’m now in Canada. I’ve worked in academia, start-ups and established large companies. I cannot speak about HR specifically. What I will say is that the office is a reflection of the overall culture.
      Warning: gross generalizations to follow. All is my own experience, not speaking to all of either country.
      I don’t expect anyone in Canada to talk about religion in the workplace. Cdns are much more reserved. When my small Cdn company got a US CEO and he gave zoom speeches in front of a very stylized cross, or talked about his wife, it was very much out of Cdn culture. In Canada, when my colleagues talk about working extra hours, it’s very much in an this-is-unfortunate way, and not in a braggy way; this was not true for my US colleagues.
      To get an idea of Cdn culture, try taking the citizenship test. There used to be trial tests to take online. See where your answers differ from the correct ones. My american spouse did this, and it was illuminating. And he still can’t get over “keeping your yard tidy” is not the correct answer.

      Reply ↓
    4. Generic Name*

      I work for a US-based company that has offices in Canada. I’ve worked on several projects in Canada with largely Canadian staff. Laws between the two countries are very similar (I’m most familiar with environmental law, but our corporate anti-bribery/anti collusion training notes the similarities between the 2 countries’ laws). Granted this is my experience sitting in the US and collaborating via video meetings, but the biggest difference I’ve noticed is some words are pronounced in ways you wouldn’t expect, and they say “zed” instead of “zee” for the letter z. I emigrating and being successful at a job would be very doable in your case.

      Reply ↓
  16. Alice*

    When I’m working on site, sometimes my manager (who has an office on a different floor) drops by to say hello. Intellectually I get that she is just being friendly, but it’s hard enough to focus in a cubicle already. Social interruptions with no immediate purpose (unless the purpose is to check that I’m actually on site when I said I would be?) make it harder.
    How can I persuade myself to like this better, or at least, stop disliking it?

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Re-frame the interruptions in your own mind. It’s not checking if your at your desk like a school child, it’s more on the boss’s end to strengthen their connection with you. Unscheduled drop by’s are to build relationship; provide more casual interaction (many people won’t schedule a 1:1 to air a minor grievance or ask a basic question but will do so if boss is more casually available); and appear approachable as a boss. This benefits you too, having a personal connection and a solid relationship means your boss is more likely to stand up for you, want you to reach your work goals, develop growth in your role (promotions, raises).

      Reply ↓
    2. JuliePaislie*

      Does she tend to drop by at around the same time each day? Can you plan for work that’s less focus-heavy at those times?

      Would it make sense to have these scheduled? Even for 5 minutes. Or check out her calendar to see when she’s free and might come by. Or even go see her?

      Reply ↓
    3. RagingADHD*

      How long is she spending talking to you, and how frequently is she doing it?

      “Dropping by to say hello” doesn’t seem like it would be a major disruption to one’s workday, especially if it only happens occasionally. If it’s feeling like the last straw to your concentration, maybe that shows that you may need to take other steps to mitigate the baseline level of noise and distraction you’re dealing with – can you use headphones, adjust your screen setup, ask about getting pink noise piped in, etc?

      Reply ↓
    4. Kay*

      I think it would be weird if your manager didn’t stop by sometimes to be honest. Like Disney said, it is about relationship building, being accessible, and maintaining an open positive relationship. Think of it like passing someone you know in the hall – if you ignore them it is weird right? Obviously with your boss being on a different floor it is a little different, but that same idea applies.

      Reply ↓
  17. Eliza*

    I was laid off last month and have been job searching like crazy since then. This Tuesday I had a conversation with a hiring manager who said she wanted to present me an offer and was aiming to get it in my inbox by end of day Thursday. It is now Friday, but I haven’t yet received it.

    I’m not actually super surprised she didn’t get it to me by yesterday — the job is at a startup where there’s a lot going on. But I’m on tenterhooks and want to get everything squared away ASAP. If I don’t get anything today, would it be too much to nudge her late this afternoon?

    Reply ↓
    1. Amber Rose*

      Personally I’d wait until Monday morning. I dislike nudging people on Friday afternoons, and one whole business day is a pretty reasonable time to wait.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hiring Mgr*

      I would send a note today if it were me. It’s an offer so it’s kind of a big deal – nothing wrong with a little nudge a day or two post her date for the offer.

      Reply ↓
      1. Eliza*

        I think that’s what I’ll do, especially because she’s been very open to chatting with me. Even just to get an update on a new ETA — I really don’t want to sit in this uncertainty all weekend.

        Reply ↓
  18. CubeFarmer*

    I’m changing some micromanaging habits!

    For years, my manager was a brilliant thinker, but a micromanager. The micromanaging was frustrating and demeaning to me. Because of it there were situations where I never knew if I would have reached the same conclusions on my own because I never had a chance to think. But at the same time, she would focus on these little things sometimes to the exclusion of programmatic decisions that she needed to make, which she would always deal with at the last minute. I recently assumed her role, and promised myself that I wouldn’t be the same.

    We recently had to change the date of a meeting. I was juuuuuuust about to remind my deputy that she needed to let our board members know and then I thought, “No. She’s competent. Notifying our board members is the obvious thing to do. This is reasonably low-stakes, so let me see if she does this without me telling her. If she doesn’t send something by tomorrow morning, I’ll ask her. If the new details go out today, or tomorrow it’s not a big deal. I’m going to wait.”

    Guess what? Within an hour, she had a notification sent out!

    Reply ↓
  19. hmmm*

    I have a lifelong hobby that I am trying to turn into a business. It is for a handmade item. Before taking the plunge officially I am testing things out in places like Etsy, local craft fairs, etc. So far I have had an extremely positive response! Yeah! If all goes according to plan, in 2-3 years I will be able to do this full time. This business is a goal I have literally been working on for decades and now have the time and money to devote to it.

    The item I am making requires a template, pattern and/ or design (TPD). Creating TPDs is my least favorite thing to do. Creating TPDs is also a very challenging task that some people go to school for years to do. Sadly I do not have the talent to create TPDs. I tend to scour the internet and brick & mortar stores for places to buy unique TPDs. I work with a lot of designers, copyrights, etc. These TPDs cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of budgeting financially to acquire these however if you wait for sales they are quite reasonably priced. I usually stack up when there is a sale. In addition if you look hard enough (even a local library) you can get some of the TPDs for free. That’s how I got started! As I said this is a lifelong hobby. Given that I am in my late 40s you can imagine I have acquired quite a selection of TPDs.

    This is also a hobby that I have not only been able to earn money off of, but also do it for relaxation and mental health chill out time. As a hobby I belong to a lot of related online and in person groups. The thing is in these hobby groups, people are always asking me to share TPDs. Don’t get me wrong if I am allowed to share, I will – within not violating copyrights, trademarks and the designers I work with. I too have even have taken ideas from group shared TPDs. Yes I do share when I can. If I can’t share a TPD I will reference them to somewhere/ someone they can get the TPD. However some of these group members seem annoyed that I won’t share some of my more unique TPDs.

    How do I get across that for me this is almost like sharing a trade secret; I’ve worked hard to financially get these TPDs for potential future work; I also know a lot of the TPD designers are also looking to make a living off these TPDs. I know I am not officially a “professional” but I am trying to start a business the right way. Maybe I need to find some more professional groups but I do enjoy the hobby aspect. How do I navigate this?!

    Reply ↓
    1. RagingADHD*

      You tell them “This isn’t open-source, so I can’t share it,” and let them be annoyed.

      Some people are always going to be mad that you told them no, even if it’s for excellent reasons. I’ve had people – usually mere acquaintances because I don’t stay in touch after such behavior – get mad at me for declining to share my controlled prescriptions, declining to write them full novels or screenplays for free, and declining to let my toddler ride in their car without a carseat (among other things).

      Their entitlement is not a reflection on your character. It’s on their own.

      Reply ↓
  20. Maple Cheesecake*

    I have a fairly low stakes question. I’m new to an office with cubicles—we have 9 cubes, in 3 rows. My team of 4 takes up one row, plus one cube on the other side of the cubicle wall, making us an L shape. I’m the one on the other side.

    My team and I are fumbling to cue me when to join on team conversations that happen on their side of the row. I’m too polite and a bit of a wallflower, so I never want to interrupt a conversation I’m not a part of—but I also need to be part of my team.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to bridge this 4′ cubicle wall gap? Thankya!

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you flat-out told them that you’re new to cubes and tend to be overly polite, and that therefore you’d really appreciate it if they called your name when you should be in conversation with them?

      If you want to take it on yourself, then one way to do this is just to say “Hey, should I be in on this?” as soon as you get the slightest inkling that it’s important.

      Reply ↓
      1. Maple Cheesecake*

        I haven’t in so many plain words, but the sentiment is understood—my lead is very aware of the situation, and we’re all trying to brainstorm. It’s a super chill team, so this is definitely an effort that will go both ways! I’ll try popping my head up and asking if I need to be in on the convo though, Thank you!

        Reply ↓
    2. cathy*

      Just know that you’re not intruding if you chime in to a work conversation- that this is expected? When I worked in a cube farm none of us had any boundaries when it came to that.
      (There was no such thing as a private conversation there unless you took it elsewhere.)

      Reply ↓
    3. Mid*

      Is it possible to rearrange the team so you’re in two rows of two, without making a different team more spread out?

      Is it possible to move desks so you’re more in the middle and one of the socially bolder team mates is the stand alone?

      Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      Have them say “Hey Maple, what do you think?”

      Alternatively can you somehow swap so that your cubicle opening is facing their cubicle openings rather than having each others wall facing each other?

      Reply ↓
  21. Not A Project Manager*

    Do you have issues communicating to your staff that things are Not Normal? I had the weirdest conversation with my grandboss the other day about applying to federal EJ funding. For context, all such grants are being frozen and this week the government said they were going to sue people who had received these funds in a prior grant cycle. That is an unprecedented thing to happen, but here we are. I said obviously I didn’t think the grant cycle was happening and it wouldn’t be a good idea even if it was – he said “but the application is still open on the website – can you call the Agency staff to see what’s going on?” That would be a totally normal suggestion in normal times, but really, you think a potential applicant is going to reach the (fired) workers at the EPA EJ division right now to ask them questions about applications?? And even if I could reach someone, that they would give me a straight answer? I feel like I’m losing my mind here having these conversations. Is this happening elsewhere or is my management particularly clueless? I see the first comment re: tariffs is at least in a similar boat.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      This is a very real thing, those higher up have their head in the sand are going about as if it is “business as normal” when it most definitely is not.

      Reply ↓
    2. Bess*

      Do you have a legal expert you can consult? Maybe you can reroute that way so that you don’t have to be the decider here.

      Reply ↓
    3. Ri*

      Oh my goodness. I work for a federal agency that has mostly been spared so far but it is clearly only a matter of time. I cannot believe how oblivious my boss is about what is going on. He recently accused me of scaring my direct reports; I told him that I think he is misleading people into thinking their jobs are safe and is putting their financial stability at risk. Broadly, I don’t think I’ve had a hard time talking to my team about it but I’ve followed up more than once after a larger meeting led by my boss to tell my team specifically that I’m interpreting [current day chaos] a different way. Communicating upwards has been the most bizarre battle. It’s like we don’t work at the same place. Also – to the EJ thing specifically, I don’t work for EPA but I can confirm 100% that you’re getting nowhere with that. If someone called me to ask about my EJ related programs right now, I’d think that they were an alt right reporter or sent from the administration to find people who are defying executive orders.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I would send the email off into the void to avoid a flat-out lie and then say I’d heard nothing back.

        Reply ↓
  22. Emac*

    Should I indicate on my resume that my most recent job was hybrid/remote (1 day in the office)? I am looking for mainly hybrid/remote jobs and see some asking for evidence that the person can handle it but I’m not sure how to show that. Would it be in a cover letter or should it be something like “Town, STATE (hybrid/remote)” on the cover letter after the company name? And do I say hybrid or just remote?

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      To me that’s a cover letter thing, FWIW. “I have successfully worked a hybrid schedule for the past three years and find that I do my best work blah blah blah.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Paris Geller*

        Yeah, I was going to say–put it in the cover letter! I guess you could put Job Title (Hybrid) on your resume, but there’s so much variation as to what a hybrid job is, I could see the resume getting really bogged down if you try to explain your exact remote/in-office schedule.

        Reply ↓
    2. Other Fish*

      I think it makes sense to put it on your resume, since it sounds like it would be a value add here for the kinds of jobs you’re applying for. You could even say “Hybrid, primarily remote”

      Reply ↓
    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      If you’re a manager you could sneak it in there as an accomplish, something about building connections as a split team hybrid and in person…

      Reply ↓
  23. Pancakes*

    What to do when your new boss isn’t catching on?

    I was a team of one for a few years before my previous manager’s position was backfilled. I was so excited for relief , but my new boss seems to be struggling. Constant technology issues, claiming to have never heard of processes and procedures that I know have shown her before (in recorded trainings so both of us can double check), working super late hours even though they haven’t ramped up to full duties yet.

    I haven’t really gotten the relief I need because I spend so much time explaining things to my new boss and things take longer than if I had just done them myself. But it seems like I do nothing? No one has checked in with me about how it is going and it seems like too much to go over my new boss’s head to their boss (who I used to report to).

    Maybe my expectations are just not realistic? I’ve never had to train my own boss before. It is been 3+ months.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      I think 3+ months is long enough to go to your boss’s boss and let them know your boss needs more intensive training on more basic issues than you can provide and still do your own job.

      Reply ↓
    2. Getting Away From Extremes*

      I’m going through something similar. How is your relationship with your new boss? Do you feel comfortable asking her how she sees her progress so far, and what she wants you to do differently to help her get up to speed faster? (You’d need a better wording, though…)

      If you don’t have the open communication where this kind of question lands as intended, there may not be much you can do, aside from discreetly flagging it to your grandboss (who should be aware if your new boss is floundering).

      3+ months feels like it should be more than enough time for a new person to get up to speed.

      Reply ↓
  24. I heard it both ways*

    I am a government contractor and I am worried about my job. I have a niche job so I am not confident I can find a new one easily. I have considered pivoting to something else but I have no idea what to pivot to or how to figure it out. I am also hoping someone has advice for how to deal with the anxiety and stress! I do have a therapist.

    Reply ↓
    1. GeorgiaB*

      No advise, just commiseration. I also work for a government contractor and am worried about my job. My role is not super niche, but I’ve been there for 15 years and am at a level below Director, so it’s hard to find anything comparable outside the GovCon space.

      Reply ↓
    2. Mockingjay*

      Government contractor here. Since the current Admin seems to be pushing privatization, I don’t think contracts are going away anytime soon. There’re so many. Especially if you work on a midsize contract that, regardless of the task or work involved, pretty much flies under the radar. Mine is a technical support contract that’s up for renewal at the end of the fiscal year. The only thing I can do, is execute my job to the best of my ability and ensure my company can showcase metrics for solid performance. The government agencies I support are also trying to keep to business as usual.

      Hubby and I are preparing for a layoff but otherwise living life as usual.

      Reply ↓
      1. Pine Tree*

        “….contracts are [not] going away anytime soon.”

        This is NOT true for specialized contracting jobs for programs and fields of study that are being completely dismantled, though. Not all contractors will so easily be able to just jump to another contract without completely changing their field of specialty. A climate scientist or fisheries biologist working on a contract is not likely to find another fed contracting job. Also, if there are any private sector jobs in those fields, they were usually dependent on federal funding in some way or another (or exist to respond to regulations that are in the process of being dismantled, too). Many, many people are facing the complete loss of their career, even after years of work and specialized education.

        Just wanted to point this out because I almost lost it when my own mother said “well, you’ll just find another job, you’ll be fine” when I’m facing the complete loss of my career in my field of study, and will likely have to do something completely different after graduate degrees and 20+ years of experience.

        Reply ↓
  25. Ami*

    I have a question regarding something I’m seeing a lot more when job hunting. A few places have asked in lieu of a cover letter to write a statement on why I’d be qualified for the job. I don’t why but the last few times I’ve done it, it’s been a rough go and I get in my head about not sounding robotic or whatever. Does anyone have any tips for future reference? Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Ah yes I see this a lot, and I just assume they actually basically want a cover letter, but a good cover letter, not just one that rambles through past roles. I just revise my usual cover letter to make it more pointed and shorter.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      I could be off because I’ve never seen this before, but maybe what they are looking for is just the middle paragraph(s) of a cover letter. Instead off all the parts of a cover letter (the “Dear Hiring Manager” greeting, paragraph(s) that show why you are good for the job, closing paragraph with your contact details, “Sincerely, Ami” sign off) they are just looking for those “paragraph(s) that show why you are good for the job” without all the rest.

      Reply ↓
    4. basil and thyme*

      that’s a cover letter where you specifically tailor your experience to their job ad. For a draft: go through each of their points, and write a sentence or two as to why you’d be good at that task. Then make that into a cover letter.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not A Project Manager*

        Which, I mean, you should really be doing anyway, so it’s just a hint for people with poor cover letters basically.

        Reply ↓
  26. Productivity Pigeon*

    I’ve been staring at my resume all day. Well, for months, to be honest.

    I just need to convince my ADHD brain to let me make it good enough. So that I can finally, *finally* break my job search paralysis before my life collapses completely.

    (Burnout, unemployed, ADHD, family stuff, brain gremlins…)

    I’ve identified that I struggle to apply to jobs because I’m terrified of being rejected and if I don’t apply, I don’t have to find out that I might be rejected.

    But the situation’s getting desperate.

    Any and all advice and general encouragement welcome.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      As someone who hasn’t done her taxes yet, I feel this. Everyone’s brain is a little different so you might need to figure out your own “hack” but for me, I can sometimes accomplish things by making it a Special Occasion. Frequently this works against me, because I’m waiting for the “Special Occasion” to do things instead of just … doing them, but sometimes I can hack it in my favor, such as by going out to a nice place to Do The Thing (in my case, a Mexican cantina) and stopping and ordering a drink after I hit arbitrary goal #1 (so maybe that’s complete draft of taxes for me, for you it might be just sending a few applications). Shifting the pressure to just doing the thing and not thinking about all the follow up can help me at some point.

      Reply ↓
      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        Ah, that’s a trick I haven’t tried! I like it.
        I do need to just not think and just do.
        My newly acquired career coach keeps telling me I just need to get them interested enough in me. My resume doesn’t need to be perfect, just interesting enough. And the job I wanna apply to, I am more than qualified for, even with a spotty employment history.

        I’m seriously considering opening a bottle of wine. I very rarely drink but I just need to get over this molehill-mountain and manage to apply to ONE job.

        Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      A few thoughts, in case any of them work for you (please ignore any suggestions that are difficult/impossible for you):

      – In my experience, most places don’t actually send a rejection email. I just never hear back from them. I don’t know if that hits your fear of rejection the same way, but if “never hear a response” is more palatable, remind yourself of that before you apply

      – Set a goal for yourself to apply to X number of jobs per (week/month). Your goal is to send applications out into the world, nothing more. Don’t think about what happens after your applications are submitted, your goal is just to hit that “submit” button.

      – Reward yourself for hitting the submit button. Submit one application? Eat a cookie (or some other small reward). Submit five applications? Treat yourself to a dinner at your favorite restaurant, a movie at the movie theater, etc. (larger reward for more applications submitted)

      – Do you have a friend or family member who would be willing to literally press the submit button/the send button for an email? You get everything queued up, and your friend/relative clicks the mouse.

      Reply ↓
      1. Stuff*

        Did this and can advocate for the idea that you just send out applications. I forced myself to submit an application every business day of the week when I was looking for a job at a particular location with a wide variety of openings. To motivate myself, I made a very personal list of motivational WHYs that I reviewed every day as well as a list of hard things I have already done in my life. When I got good at overcoming the activation hump for applications (right now, it seems impossible, but after a few weeks at the most, you will get to that point!), I let myself submit five on Saturdays. They didn’t even need to be particularly in my corner (I applied for things that I can definitely see were far outside of my realm) but I applied to one every day. Good luck, I was there and we are all rooting for you.

        Reply ↓
    3. Emac*

      I so feel this, as a fellow ADHDer with burnout, brain stuff, and family stuff who’s job hunting. One thing that has helped me is ChatGPT – as controversial as that might be, it’s been a lifesaver for me. I get the paralysis too and just having ChatGPT spit out a resume or cover letter that gives me something to start with has helped immensely.

      I’m also a big proponent of temp agencies if that exists in your field. I find working with a temp recruiter to be very helpful as they will usually interview anyone and everyone, then they actually know you a little to be able to sell you to a prospective client. It’s a way to get yourself in front of someone who wants you to come across your best since they get paid by how many jobs they fill successfully. (And if you’ve never used one, you should *never* have to pay them – the good ones all get their money from the company who is looking for someone. At least in the US, that’s how it goes.)

      Reply ↓
    4. Other Fish*

      Send it to a friend right now. You need some kind of external pressure and feedback and you’re not gonna get it from yourself!

      Reply ↓
        1. Generic Name*

          What would make it ready? Could your friend’s feedback jump start you into making the changes necessary to make it “ready”? What would happen if you applied to a job you didn’t care if you got called in for an interview with your “not ready” resume?

          Reply ↓
    1. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

      As a fellow female software engineer, I wouldn’t wear that to work, specifically because of the length.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nicki Name*

        Seconding this. If it were at least knee-length, I’d say it depends on your workplace. At the very casual end of business-casual, I think it would be fine if it were longer.

        Reply ↓
    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      I’m someone who almost always wears dresses or skirts, and I certainly don’t thumb my nose at a minidress.

      But I think this is a bit much for a regular office. The velvet, the length and just general feel… it’s a wonderful party dress, or even a dinner date one.

      I do recon it could work with some thick black tights and understated shoes but it wouldn’t be my first choice for office wear.

      Reply ↓
    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      Not professional for work. Velvet already a tough fabric to make professional even in traditional cuts. Length and the wrap make it less appropriate too. It’s giving bathrobe vibes. You’d have to wear thicker leggings or some sort of pant with it to work in a office job.

      Reply ↓
      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Yep. You could probably get away with velvet OR short OR wrappy, but all three together is a lot.

        Reply ↓
    5. Faye*

      On the contrary, I think it’s fine depending on your office. I’d probably wear a lengthening underskirt (Amazon has some lace skirts) if you are on the taller side and feel it’s too short.

      Reply ↓
      1. Aggretsuko*

        Yeah, I think other than the length, it’s fine. However, I do not work in software engineering with a bunch of judgy men, so I can’t speak for that.

        Reply ↓
    6. Sweatpant Diva*

      You’re getting mostly nos, but I’d say “depends on your office.” In my office if someone wore that no one would bat an eye. Our developers are mostly younger and I couldn’t care less what they wear.

      Reply ↓
    7. Cabbagepants*

      I am shocked at the negative replies. This dress would be fine as long as your accessories/makeup are conservative/traditional, and yes you do need some opaque leggings.

      Reply ↓
    8. LaminarFlow*

      I am a software engineer, and I have worn similar things to work. I also don’t have to adhere to any sort of dress code (folks can and do wear jammies if they want to). Throwing on a biker jacket or blazer, dark opaque tights & boots also dresses this frock way down for a daytime vibe.

      Reply ↓
    9. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Disclosure – male software engineer.

      Others have commented on the length; it’s probably on the edge of what I’d consider appropriate office wear. I’ll comment on the hosiery.

      I don’t think fishnets are appropriate office wear. And together with the dress it gives off a costume vibe.

      But wear that with black tights or hose and I wouldn’t blink, and that would eliminate the length issue too.

      Reply ↓
  28. Birdy*

    Advice for writing a self-assessment and not shooting myself in the foot or focusing too much on the negatives? My own worst crtic keeps on coming out.

    I know I will most likely get partially met in one or two metrics, or at least deserve it. I also know I am fully capable of doing better and being mindful of my weaker areas and mistakes. Most of it can be chalked up to stress and ADHD (and frustration, I don’t want to talk about that part), but I hate using that as an excuse/reasoning. My actions are my actions.

    I just want to be able to say “here’s what I did last year” without it being 80% negatives because in reality it wasn’t 80%.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      What’s the expectation in your workplace? If I’m doing an employee evaluation like to decide raises, I don’t say a single negative thing about myself, unless they absolutely force me to with a question like “what was your worst outcome this year.” I treat it like a resume, a marketing document. It’s up to my boss to counter with negatives if they feel differently. I certainly wouldn’t mention ADHD or anything, I would just list what I felt were my best accomplishments in the year. Avoid self incrimination, IMO. But if this is out of step with how others in the org treat the process I would try to adjust.

      Reply ↓
      1. Birdy*

        I think you have the right work place expectation. It’s just annoying when in the past I have written “hey, look at this stuff I did!”, then the manager comes back with how much I struggled or something, and my comments sound oblivious at best. But yeah, I guess it is their job to counter or fill in context. That’s a good what of viewing it.

        Reply ↓
    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      Oh, I know the feeling!

      I know this isn’t helpful right now, but for next year, consider keeping a document with copies of nice emails you’ve gotten, and a ”win”-log. Doesn’t need to be huge wins, but I find documenting them as I go along really helps me remember what I’ve actually accomplished.

      Reply ↓
    3. allx*

      Personally, I think a self-assessment is not the place to be brutally honest about your short-comings. Figure out what you accomplished this year, and write it in the most positive light. My practice is to only write the good things in self-assessments and to make them as factual and number-driven as possible. The metric measures the finish line, but in any goal, there are lots and lots of steps that move you toward acheivement. Focus on the steps you have taken for each one. Even areas where you feel you fell short can be couched in terms of progress made.

      For instance, if a goal was “land two new client accounts” and you did not land two new accounts, you would focus the assessment on the many steps that moved you closer to that goal. Things like cultivating relationships with people who could help, undertaking research of markets/companies in the space of the targets; lunches, meetings, attendance at events, potential business in the pipeline, the number of all the potential clients you reached out to (and possible list) etc. If the goal was a hard number, like sell $xxxxxx of product, and you sold $xxx dollars of product, you would focus on what you sold, what is queued up/in process, who you are developing relationships with etc. If the metric is something like “handle and resolve xxxx-high volume number of customer calls” and you are short of the goal, you would look at the reasons why (disproportionate share of tricky problems that took more time to resolve; calls that required extensive research, back-ordered goods, coordination with others; calls that were difficult to resolve that you successfully navigated).
      And it’s generally good to also mention any ways you helped your colleagues move toward their goals as well.

      Reply ↓
      1. LaminarFlow*

        +1 to all of this! I’m not about to point out all of my fails to a person who is responsible for my performance rating & raise!

        Reply ↓
    5. thatsjustme*

      Always be your biggest hype man or hype woman or hype nonbinary person in the self-assessment. Play up every positive thing you’ve done. When it comes to areas where you feel like you’re not living up to your potential, talk about the things you’ve done to address that (eg, started using Grammarly to avoid typos in documents) and any ideas you have for improvement or growth in those areas.

      If your boss has specific things they want to ding you for, they’ll point that out. You don’t need to do it for them. With self-evals, you want to put on your “nearly delusional confidence” hat.

      Reply ↓
  29. Tea Monk*

    How is everyone job searching in all this uncertainty? How are you guys changing your search? I worry my parameters ( over 50k a year with health insurance) will be hard to hit

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      I’m not really job searching right now, but $50k with health insurance seems like a pretty low bar? Unless you’re in some specifically low-paying line of work?

      Reply ↓
      1. Tea Monk*

        I don’t think I will be moving soon so I’m pegging it to a middle class paycheck here not in New York or California. I need to move fields- doing some social work right now, but I will not get into some high paying field

        Reply ↓
        1. ThatGirl*

          Well, either way, companies will always be hiring – even if things slow down, people still change jobs, it might take longer for you to find what you want/need but I think your expectations are reasonable.

          Reply ↓
    2. Emac*

      I’m trying anything and everything, basically. I just signed up for FlexProfessionals, which someone here suggested a few weeks ago. They work in the DC and Boston areas. And it seems like a great resource so far – they had an open intro Zoom meeting and have webinars that are free on different topics like career changing and resume review.

      Reply ↓
    3. Busy Middle Manager*

      What field? Looks like almost all new jobs the past few month have been “education and health services” while IT is flat and “business services” is negative. Doesn’t help to have lower expectations if no one is hiring anyway

      Reply ↓
  30. Prawo Jazdy*

    Is “they gotta kid to feed” a good argument not to fire someone?

    In the past I’ve been stuck in a few workplaces with a toxic ogre who drives other employees away and generally embodies many of those tedious pathologies that come up over and over in letters to this site.

    In those cases, the consensus had been that the toxic person cannot be let go because “they gotta kid to feed”, i.e. the managers would feel better about losing a few employees than about targeting an innocent kid by firing their parent. And I can’t decide if I agree with that argument or not.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Other employees don’t have people they need to care for more than they need the instability of finding a new job away from the problem employee?

      Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      Expand the “kid to feed” argument and see if you still agree with it.

      The company is trying to decide between Job Candidate A and Job Candidate B. A has more experience, and one kid. B has less experience, and three kids. The company hires Candidate B because they have more kids to feed.

      Employee C gets married and moves in with their spouse (who also has a job). The company decreases C’s paycheck because “they don’t need as much money now.”

      Employee D’s spouse gets divorced and their (ex-)spouse moved out of the house. The company gives D a raise because their housing expenses are higher now.

      Employee E has one kid, who grows up and moves out. The company decreases C’s paycheck because “they don’t have a kid to feed anymore.”

      Is that a company you want to work for?

      Reply ↓
    3. pally*

      Perhaps the better way would be to give an extra generous severance.

      (Does it count if one does not have kids, but financially supports family members?)

      Short term, it is certainly ‘easier’ for management to opt to keep the toxic person and offer up excuses instead of taking actions (warnings, PIP, documentation of issues, termination). The hope is folks will learn to just grin and bear it. The reality is losing the good employees-at least those who have options outside of the job they have.

      Hlao-roo, excellent analysis!

      Reply ↓
    4. Rex Libris*

      IMHO, Firing should be based on job performance and conduct, period. Everyone has a personal life that requires a paycheck to fund it, otherwise they wouldn’t work.

      Reply ↓
    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      So… I work hard, try to get along with everyone, do work that gets great feedback, yet they’re willing to let me leave because I don’t have a kid to feed?

      If I had a kid to feed, and I was told to do certain things to keep my job, I would probably do them so I wouldn’t get fired. Has no one spoken to this person about his performance?

      Reply ↓
    6. A.*

      I think sometimes managers either do not feel they have to explain their staffing decisions to you or are not at liberty to explain their staffing decisions to you so they throw out a bland statement like this.

      How would you respond if the manager said “I’m not going to discuss hiring and firing with you.”

      You, specifically, might be fine with that. But many people would see that as an opening to negotiate that the manager doesn’t want to get into.

      Sometimes people say things like this at work not because it’s true but because it ends the conversation.

      Reply ↓
    7. Mariana Twonch*

      No. We all have responsibilities, which is why we work. Kids aren’t the only reason people need income. If we value being able to meet our obligations, we should seek to behave in ways that make us less likely to be fired. In other words, this is the ogre’s problem, not his employer’s.

      Reply ↓
  31. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

    Sorry in advance for the length of this comment!

    I’m the only case manager at a social services agency serving 1000+ clients, and am absolutely not suited to the job. I’m trying to put together an exit plan that involves me having health insurance, but that’s been extremely difficult in the current political/economic climate. So for as long as I need to stay here, I want to work on mitigating – or at least finding workarounds for – some of the more dysfunctional work habits I’ve developed here. I do have ADHD, my particular brand of which is a spectacularly terrible fit for my org’s work culture, even when medicated. I won’t go into the details because that would make this way too long, but basically this job was tailor made to focus on my biggest weaknesses.

    My main issue is the phone/voicemail. I’ve always preferred written communication to oral, but in past jobs I could suck it up and take calls/respond to messages in a warm, professional way – in fact, I was so convincing that people were surprised to hear I wasn’t a big fan of the phone.
    This job has worn down that skill to the point where the sound of my phone ringing activates my startle reflex the same way a horror movie jump scare does (and I’m a giant baby about horror movies). My voicemail inbox is a graveyard of unopened messages going back months. That’s unacceptable in any job, but especially one serving extremely vulnerable people. Our client population has varying levels of education, literacy (some never learned to read or write), and tech savviness. By being responsive to email but not the phone, I’m behaving not just unproductively but inequitably.

    I’ve identified some of the root causes and have tried to find workarounds, but nothing has really stuck. In no particular order:

    1. Most of our clients speak Spanish, but not all. Unlike most other departments, I don’t have separate English and Spanish extensions – I’m a one-person department with only one phone and never know which language to answer in. I usually default to English, because while our Spanish speaking clients may pause or sound disappointed that I might not speak their language, some of our English speakers spew some pretty potent vitriol if they’re greeted in Spanish.

    It sounds so trivial here, but I get worn down after the fourth or fifth time I answer in English, get an awkward pause, and start over in Spanish. Since most of our clients speak Spanish, this happens a lot.

    I’ve tried quickly looking up the phone number in our system before picking up, but a) our system is slow, and the phone keeps ringing during that whole process, which I’m sure is grating for the people working near me, and b) once I pick up, do I pretend not to know who is calling? Clients know each other and sometimes swap phones, or families might share, so I probably should still verify. But sometimes a coworker will see me go through this whole lookup process and still ask for the caller’s name and DOB, and then look at me weird, as if it’s some petty power trip to make them wait and then prove who they are. Which, again, should not be such a big deal if I just explain why I do it. But it adds to the total cognitive load that goes into just *answering* the phone, let alone having the conversation.

    2. I don’t know what people are calling about or how long the conversation will take. For someone who struggles with time management, that’s a problem. I try to schedule my day, but I’m constantly being interrupted with urgent fires to put out, even without taking the phone into account. The phone adds a whole new dimension.

    From my vantage point, I can see which client issues are most urgent and which can probably wait, but to the client, whatever they’re calling about is usually the most stressful issue in their life, and they want to talk to someone about it. My job is supposed to be more about finding solutions and connecting them with resources, but how can I interrupt someone to do that when they’re unburdening themselves about something they probably needed to work up the courage to call about in the first place?

    To complicate things further, I don’t come from the same culture as most of our clients, and Spanish is my second language. It seems like many of our clients come from cultures where interruption IS expected, so they’ll speak for 10+ minutes at a time without leaving a natural pause for me to smoothly switch gears. I just can’t figure out where/how to jump in. Since these issues are emotionally fraught, they often speak quickly or through tears, and I don’t understand everything they’re saying (because second language), so I end up interrupting to ask them to repeat themselves (which is probably not fun for them, because emotionally fraught) and don’t want to interrupt yet again to either schedule an appointment for another time or explain the solution. And often the solution is very, very quick and easy! But it doesn’t actually end up being quick and easy because I’m so bad at handling the give and take of these conversations. So picking up the phone basically feels like playing Russian roulette with my schedule/ability to focus for the rest of the day.

    2b: It seems like letting more calls go to voicemail would be the solution to this, but not so. My voicemail greeting requests that people leave a brief description of the reason for their call, but many of them still just say “please call me back,” which brings us back to not being able to budget time for the call. When they do tell me what they need, it’s often in a roundabout way that makes my brain itchy – I get restless having to take in information at the speed at which they speak, when I can read much more quickly. That sounds so petty and small, but it truly does make things so much more difficult.

    We do get emailed transcriptions of our voicemails…but only English voicemails. I know there are third party transcription services that work with more languages, but since clients are sharing personal and sensitive information, I probably shouldn’t feed their voicemails through there.

    3. Because my “caseload” is all the clients, my time fills up very quickly with work that comes to me via other avenues (email, fax, notes on my desk, people coming over to my office, the separate email system in our client tracking software, Teams…basically everything but carrier pigeon). And because the phone is particularly painful for me, it’s easy for me to neglect it. I sometimes put my phone on DND so I can focus, and actually get a lot done and feel SO productive…then remember my phone is on DND, look at my voicemail inbox, and despair. I’ve tried setting aside time at the beginning of my day just to deal with voicemails, but again, I’m also getting interruptions from every other direction, many of which I can’t ignore. It seems like I can stay on top of my scheduled workload + interruptions when my phone is on DND and I forget my voicemail exists, but reintroducing the phone tips the scales into overwhelm, and I end up dissociating and just doing nothing.

    Those are the broad strokes. Any advice would be helpful. I have looked into changing the ringtone on my phone to a less harsh/startling one, but all the options have me jumping out of my skin. I am in therapy, but that can only do so much.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      1. “Hello, this is X. Before we begin, do you prefer English or Spanish?” Presumably the Spanish speakers will at least be able to pick up on the question. Or you could just go with “Hello, this is X,” wait for them to respond, and offer to switch to Spanish if they try English but are struggling.

      Similarly, on the lookup issue, you can just say “Before we continue, I need to verify your name and DOB.” Maybe your coworkers think it’s overkill, but I don’t think most people on the other end will question or be too annoyed that you’ve got process stuff you need to check off.

      2. Yeah, I think you’re just going to have to get better at interrupting. “I’m sorry, that all sounds very stressful, and I’m glad you reached out. Am I correct in assuming you’re calling for help with X?” Or “It’s okay: if you can just take a deep breath for me and summarize the issue as best you can, I’m here to help.”

      3. Blocking out time on your calendar for calls is the best strategy for dealing with them while still making room for the rest of your tasks. I get the beginning of the day instinct, but if you feel better having completed other tasks first, maybe shift it to mid-morning.

      Good luck. I sympathize with the cringing when the phone rings instinct, so I am glad you’re working to find something that works better for you.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lurker*

      Part of this seems like a systems problem that those above you need to fix. For example why can’t the person transferring the call to you tell you if the client speaks English or Spanish? How large is your case load? Do you need to block of specific times in the day for specific tasks in your calendar? If someone calls during a time that you are not taking client calls you can call them back. That is what voicemail is for. You can’t be all things to all people all the time.

      Reply ↓
    3. Mid*

      This is a little thing, but can your voicemail be clear that people leaving a message without details will not be called back? “Please leave a message summarizing your issue. Messages without a summary of the issue will not be returned.” It sounds harsh, but it could at least slightly reduce the volume of voicemails you have to return.

      Mostly, this job seems to have an impossible workload and needs more than one person doing it. I know you know this, and I know you’re trying to leave. And I know how important health insurance is to have! But this job seems so overwhelming and like it’s going to burn you out. So could you also reach out to your doctors and see if there’s a way for you to get 3 months of services and medications at once, and then quit your job, so you have a 3 month buffer before not having insurance is an issue?

      Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      1000+ clients? ONE THOUSAND?

      You could have the best bloody phone service in the world and STILL feel stressed out of your mind. I imagine you’re stressed. Also, I know you say you’re in therapy – have you asked your therapist about coping mechanisms for what to do when there’s too many hurt people for you to help? Because it sure sounds like you’re getting phonecall after phonecall of people unburdening themselves. I bet your therapist has some recommendations because that’s *their job too*.

      Some advice:
      1. Is there any way to get your phone to sync with your system so that it can pull up the name of the person calling with you? Alternatively, is it possible (or legal) for you to pull together a quick lookup file with just phone numbers & preferred language?

      2. I know scripts feel sterile. I know they do. But you’re juggling a ton of people. If it helps to reframe in your mind that letting these people unburden themselves is resulting in fewer people being helped because it’s tripling the the length of the calls, frame it that way in your mind. Make yourself a script and start being OK with interrupting folks. You are not a therapy hotline. It is OK to not be a therapy hotline. Your job is to get them X resource to solve Y issue.

      3. You’re going to have to start triaging, I’m sorry to say. You’ve got a lot of people and as you said yourself, you have a better view of what can wait and what has to be dealt with right now. To that end, while you can’t limit how clients call you (I hear you on the equity!) you should certainly be able to limit how coworkers get ahold of you! Start keeping an inbox; email, paper on your desk, whatever you feel is best. Then tell your coworkers “Look – I’m not able to keep up. From now on, if it doesn’t come in via email I can’t promise I’ll see it”. Then start redirecting people. Someone comes into your office? “I’m sorry, I’m on calls right now, please send me an email”.

      Reply ↓
    5. Charly*

      Some services (e.g. GoogleVoice) offer call screening where the person calling has to identify themselves before you pick up. I used this when I was a caseworker to make sure I could keep track of people who frequently changed the numbers they were calling from and to triage my incoming calls. Could that be an option?

      For our main line, which didn’t have that, I transcribed all the voicemails each day into a spreadsheet and put them in order by call-back priority, rather than triaging live in my head.

      I will say though, my caseload was waaaaay smaller than yours and I could get coverage from colleagues when needed. I really think your org is doing you (and your clients!) a disservice by not staffing appropriately, so I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself for doing your best in this totally untenable sounding situation.

      Reply ↓
  33. Anon for this question*

    This is a multi-level question; sorry for length. For clarity, I am a neurodivergent cis woman.

    The large office of my new job has rooms with locks for nursing mothers to pump, among other things. If the key is not in the lock, the room is in use. They only have two. In a mental health seminar the other day, it was recommended we check out these facilities in our office locations. The receptionist told me where they were.

    Right as I found them, a coworker came out of one. She said, “Do you need the room?” I said no, I was just looking to see where they were. She asked me if I needed to pump. I said no but I was told that we had these amenities for everyone’s use. The coworker told me somewhat sharply that no, these rooms were for nursing mothers to pump and then said, with emphasis, “It’s the LAW.” This threw me, but I said politely that I know about the law, and we were told the wellness rooms were for everyone. She was like, no, and walked away at that point.

    When I told the receptionist, she said firmly that they were not just for moms. She also said there are always two or three nursing moms in the office but there has never been a problem with it. The alternative given was to duck into the shower room and go into a stall. I’m not comfortable with this.

    I do understand why someone could feel defensive about it, especially if there are only two rooms, and they had trouble getting in at some point. I may be off-base, but the subtext I got from the coworker’s attitude is that there’s no problem because the moms make it clear it’s for them. If someone needed it for prayer or an oncoming migraine or something, they’re out of luck.

    I’m struggling to be happy at this job, and although I don’t anticipate needing the amenity, the encounter soured my feelings on being in the office. I don’t appreciate being addressed by a peer as though I’m five. (FYI, the receptionist knows I’m ND; the coworker does not.)

    Has anyone ever run into a conflict with wellness rooms? How did you handle it? If companies are going to have general wellness rooms, should they be separate from pumping rooms? I feel like if you had the space, this would be the best way.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      I have seen offices where the nursing rooms were ALSO for other “health” things (e.g. migraine, mental health etc.) and my understanding is generally that nursing parents get priority because the law says they need a private, locked space – but that they can be used for other things as needed when not being used for pumping.

      Reply ↓
      1. Manders*

        This is correct. But sometimes it is in use when a pumping mom needs to use it and then there is conflict (this happened a lot when my colleague was pumping). But yes, only the pumping mom has a legal standing to the room.

        Reply ↓
    2. Shan the Librarian*

      I think the first question that needs to be answered is whether the rooms are actually pumping rooms or general wellness rooms. The coworker seems to think they’re pumping rooms; the receptionist seems to think they’re wellness rooms. One of them is wrong, and until you find out which, you’re not going to have a clear answer on the use of the room.

      Reply ↓
      1. Shan the Librarian*

        (“Wrong” may have been too strong of a word, as pumping rooms tend to be used for other things as well, but there are definitely different understandings of the use of the room.)

        Reply ↓
      2. No Tribble At All*

        Shan the Librarian is correct. Designated pumping rooms should not be used for anything else. General wellness rooms *can* be used for pumping, but we’ve had horror stories before of people refusing to leave, trying to break in, or otherwise not having the pumping rooms be available. I don’t blame your coworker for snapping at you — from her perspective, you were lurking outside her room for no apparent reason, and then you said the rooms were “amenities” which means a perk, rather than a necessity.

        Reply ↓
    3. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      Since you’re new, I would leave this alone for at least a few weeks, even 1-2 months, and wait to get a sense of whether anyone other than people who are nursing use the wellness rooms. If it’s just nursing moms, this probably isn’t the hill you want to die on, reputationally. There is what’s technically correct (rooms are wellness rooms with legal priority for people who are nursing) and then what’s actually practiced at your company, and most people will judge others on the second one.

      Reply ↓
      1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

        If you have a real religious or medical need to access to a wellness room for prayer, when a migraine is coming on, etc. – then you can pursue access based on that. I wouldn’t take up this cause based on the hypothetical idea that someone else might need those.

        And look, I agree with you that it would be great to have wellness rooms available. But a lot of offices just don’t. I’ve never worked somewhere that does; I have done all my at-work crying or blowing off steam in parking lots, parks, alleys and bathrooms. It sucks but it’s normal, in my experience, to not have this amenity.

        Reply ↓
    4. Deit*

      Only expressing milk is legally protected to the extent of having a non-bathroom locking door.

      It sucks that the shower stall is uncomfortable for your needs but yeah, legally, you need to defer to pumping moms for the room if pumping is a stated use for the room and find alternatives. Your company is only legally obligated to let employees pray, they are not obligated to provide a locked private room to pray (to use one of your examples).

      Also I think you need to try and empathize with your coworker. You were lurking around the door while she was shirtless and exposed. Even if you weren’t trying to peep or disrupt her you put that fear into her then when she told you they are pumping rooms you tried to argue that no you were told they were for everyone so I get her being firm TBH. In your shoes I would have been apologetic. “Oh I’m so sorry, So and So just told me they were welness rooms for everyone and that I should go find them.” and the. I would have sought clarify from a 3rd party like HR or my manager.

      Reply ↓
  34. DepressedFed*

    This is weird (and not nearly the most important thing going on), but I work in DC and my agency had a pretty casual dress code until the transition. Now, I’m super wary of any unknown people in suits in our building (and on the streets) even though I know a lot of people (including some of those I work with) have changed their dress code to match/adapt.

    It’s connected to how, overall, there’s a huge sense of distrust with anyone you didn’t already know.

    It’s exhausting.

    (Reposted after accidental nesting)

    Reply ↓
  35. Procedure Publisher*

    I have a contract that goes until May. The biggest accomplishment is that I learned this team’s process very quickly and started doing over 50% of the volume of work we get in. Only two other colleagues besides me does this work as their primary duty.

    Because this contract has an end date, I want to update my resume but I don’t know how to best express this accomplishment in a way that highlights how I learn things quickly.

    Reply ↓
    1. Butt in Seat*

      -Within 2 months of beginning role, learned X,Y, and Z processes and successfully assumed responsibility for 50% of incoming tasks in these areas

      If you were brought on to cover a gap (like a maternity leave, or something like that) you can add , “ensuring smooth department function during a coworker’s leave” or similar.

      Reply ↓
  36. Heffalump*

    Some years ago, I took a night class, and one night there was a guest speaker, a woman from our state Department of Employment Security. She said they often saw the following situation:

    A person goes to work for a sole proprietor business owned by an older man. That person is the first employee the employer has ever hired. At some point in the next few days, the employer becomes totally frustrated and cries out, “You’re fired, never darken my door again, etc.!” The employee applies for unemployment insurance and has no idea why they were fired.

    I thought this was interesting. A few years later I was taking a community college course on workplace communication, and I told this story. The instructor said, “Bingo!”

    Has anyone ever been in this situation, as the employer or employee? What was your takeaway, if any?

    Reply ↓
      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        I think this is the main sentence: “The employee applies for unemployment insurance and has no idea why they were fired”

        As opposed to bigger companies which usually require loads of paperwork and a file in order to fire someone (IME USA is “employment at will” in name only, most places rarely fire people)

        Reply ↓
      1. ThatGirl*

        yeah it feels like there’s something missing or this is the “man found dead in an empty room with a puddle of water on the floor” type question.

        Reply ↓
    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I don’t exactly follow your example, but if the question is “have you ever been fired without being told why,” yes, I was once let go three weeks into a new job (internal promotion at a company where I’d already been working for almost a year prior) and when I asked why, the answer they gave me was “if we told you why you wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment anymore.” (Then they contested my UI anyway, but were overruled when I shared that exchange with the UI investigator, so I did end up getting UI.)

      Reply ↓
    5. pally*

      I watched this in action once.

      The CFO fired the clerk she’d hired a few weeks prior. Told her she was fired right over the phone, as the clerk had called in to say her child was ill and she couldn’t come into work. There was no one to watch the child for her. I don’t think this was the first time the clerk called in sick.

      You could hear the clerk’s reaction-“WHATTT???? I need this job!!”

      That’s when I realized how powerful -and vindictive- employers can be.

      Reply ↓
  37. Asking For A Friend*

    I just had a friend visit me and we talked about a sticky work situation that I’d love to hear your advice on. She works at a non-profit educational org. She was hired a couple years ago to take on a role that combines an administrative role with some active programming (had previously been in directly providing the programs but wanted to move into a higher/admin role). The person who hired her (Jane) stepped back from the Director role and is now a board member, and a new Director (Fergus) came on board. This new director has several problems: 1) last summer he hired someone else to take on the exact administrative position that my friend was supposed to be in, and he’s effectively demoting her to just programming again but without saying so in so many words; 2) he’s insulting to employees, especially women (he told my friend that she is “annoying” and wouldn’t listen to her input on how the programming should be scaffolded for near-term growth)…my friend knows at least three other women he has insulted, one of whom actually quit because of his treatment of her.

    Our discussion was about who she should talk to about this. Should she go to Fergus first, and ask him to give her clarity about her role and her future in administration? Or should she go to Jane, her friend on the Board, and explain how Fergus is treating the staff?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      I mean, what your friend really needs to do is find a new job and feel free to be candid if asked why. But if she’s okay with potentially burning bridges without anything else lined up yet, she should see if she can get the other women to make statements and take this to the board collectively as a formal complaint.

      Reply ↓
  38. FricketyFrack*

    This is kind of a vent, half personal, half professional. Can someone who isn’t me please explain to my mother why I cannot move to Costa Rica with her when she retires – rhetorical, but also if someone wanted to, I might actually give you her phone number at this point because we’ve had this argument several times now. She’s convinced that I should just be able to drop my career and go because her retirement income would be enough for us to comfortably live on. You know, until she eventually dies because she’s not actually immortal.

    I’ve explained to her that A) I *like* what I do and the odds of finding local government work in a country I’m not from are basically zero, B) I speak conversational Spanish, but I’m far from fluent, and C) even if I did get a job there after establishing permanent residency (which takes years), the salary would likely be in the sub-$20k USD range. Meaning I wouldn’t be able to afford to travel, to retire, or to ever move back to the US if I ever wanted to.

    I get it, a lot of people are looking at routes out of the US right now, and I’m queer and take meds for anxiety so I’m not NOT nervous, but I can’t seem to get through to her that getting a job in another country isn’t as easy as just showing up and asking. I made the mistake of going into public service and that’s not on any country’s hard to fill job list.

    Reply ↓
    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      How about, “I’ll come visit you, but I prefer to build my life here”? She may be very annoying, but unless you’re under 18, she can’t force you to move. Sounds like explaining just makes things worse, so try not explaining.

      Reply ↓
      1. FricketyFrack*

        Ha, I’m 40, so she definitely can’t make me do anything. It’s hard though, because it’s just the two of us now that my dad and sister died and the rest of our family sucks. I’d love to go with her if it was remotely feasible and she knows that. I think she’s also afraid for me, so she keeps pushing. I get it, I just also know it would pretty much destroy the career I’ve spent almost 20 years building and that’s not a sacrifice I’m willing to make, at least not yet.

        Reply ↓
    2. Aneurin*

      Can you stop *explaining*, and *tell* her “you keep asking this, and my answer isn’t going to change: this isn’t going to happen”?

      Reply ↓
      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Exactly. By sharing your reasoning, you are opening the discussion up for her to continue to believe it is a negotiation. Just state, no I will not be moving to Costa Rica with you but look forward to visiting.

        Reply ↓
    3. Mid*

      “Hi Mom, I am not moving to Costa Rica with you and the discussion is over. Please stop bringing it up, or Costa Rica will be on the “no talk” list. I would love to talk to you about how excited you are for your move though! Do you think you’ll visit the cloud forests first or the volcano?”

      Reply ↓
    4. Indolent Libertine*

      As Captain Awkward is fond of saying, “Reasons are for reasonable people.” The issue is *not* that your mom doesn’t understand your reasoning and you just have to find the magical sequence of words that totally exists which will cause her to understand; the issue is that she doesn’t like your decision and wants you to come with her, and she thinks all she has to do is to keep parrying your reasons until you have none left and therefore have no choice but to come along. As several others have said, you have to stop discussing this or offering specific “can’t do it because X” replies. You’re going to have to say “Mom, I love you, and I’ll come visit you, but I am not moving with you, period, and I will not discuss this with you any further.” And then you have to start cheerfully and calmly hanging up the phone or leaving the room every time she tries to ignore your boundary.

      Reply ↓
      1. FricketyFrack*

        That’s true. I think I’ve been falling into the trap of, “Well, her reasons for wanting me to go aren’t bad or wrong, they just don’t align with my goals,” so I keep trying to get her to agree with me. I just need to be firm in that it’s not happening and I’m not going to keep talking about it because all it does is make me anxious and sad.

        Reply ↓
    5. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      “I like my life and job here, but it’s a comfort to know that you’ll have room for me in Costa Rica if I need to move.”

      Reply ↓
    6. Artemesia*

      the reason you need is ‘I don’t want to do that.’ There is no point in discussing this endlessly. ‘Mom, I am not ready to retire and am going to keep doing my job’; I hope I’ll be able to visit you on vacation in Costa Rica as it sounds like a great place.’ You don’t need to convince her your reasons are good; there is no percentage in that; you only need to let her know you aren’t doing it.

      Reply ↓
  39. JustaTech*

    I’ve got a story I just need to share about the right things getting done, but the wrong way/ for the wrong reasons.

    My site has had a contract, part time IT guy (George) for the past few years. This is because, even though we are reasonably computer savvy and we have remote support, some times you just need someone with a admin password to install specialty software, or have the time to spend 3 hours troubleshooting the conference room computer.
    George is an older guy who is simultaneously not good at his job (at all) and has boundary issues. For some people (me) this is just way too much talking about persona stuff (“do you have any Danish ancestry? Because my aunt has the same name as you and we’re Danish”), but for a *lot* of people it is standing way, way, way too close.

    I reported George to his manager (at another location) for a pretty egregious security breach a couple of years ago, but as far as I could tell nothing came of it.
    Many people on my team tried to have George fix a computer problem for them or with them only for George to just throw up his hands and say it couldn’t be fixed (it almost always could).
    So we try to avoid calling on George, but some times he has to install stuff on our computers.
    The last time he did that he went from standing way too close to patting a (female) coworker on the back and waist. That was beyond the pale, so she reported him to HR around lunch time. Before the end of the day his contract was terminated.
    Later we heard that our site head had been trying to get him fired for months for incompetence.

    So, like, I’m glad George is gone because he was useless and a creep. But I’m 1) frustrated that it took an HR situation to get his contract terminated when there were *ample* performance issues and 2) it feels weird that HR (who also isn’t on site) would can him so quickly over a single complaint.
    (The coworker who filed the complaint was told that if George had been an FTE then there would have been an investigation, but as a contractor, nope.)

    I should just say good riddance and let it go, right? And chalk this up to yet another example of our rubbish management?

    Reply ↓
    1. clearly I'm horrible at choosing jobs*

      Ew. I’d also be peeved, to say the least. I’m sure your coworker isn’t thrilled that he was kept on long enough to touch her inappropriately instead of being fired when he should have.

      Reply ↓
    2. Mrs Kung Pao*

      Do you think it’s possible that other people had put in complaints and that was the last straw? Good riddance either way!

      Reply ↓
  40. City Planner*

    I started a new job managing a 20-person department that is split into two teams. Something that I am finding irritating is that the seating arrangement for the two teams makes no logical sense. My boss has confirmed that over the past few years, new staff were just shuffled into open desks without considering what team they were on. I would like to have the junior staff seated more closely to their supervisor, because I think they would benefit from being in closer proximity to a mentor. Accomplishing this would require moving at least half of the department to new desks and I have a lot of people who have clearly settled into their space — plants, wall art, knick knacks, specialized monitor arrangements. I’m feeling very sensitive about the relationship impact of doing this — it’s a very clique-y department and I’m still a little bit of an outsider. Aside from talking to the team leads, what else should I do or consider in deciding whether/how to shuffle desk assignments? Anyone have any change management suggestions? I’m coming from an organization where it was common for teams to move to new desks (or entirely new floors/buildings) as departments grew or business needs changed and that’s clearly not the culture here.

    Reply ↓
    1. PX*

      Not sure how new the job is, but from a change management perspective you can go one of two ways: make the change immediately and accept the consequences (aka it might set your reputation for better or worse as the person who came in and shook things up and people might always resent you for it and you will always be an outsider “imposing” things on them) or wait a couple of months and see if you can find ways to ease into it (aka a natural change of someone leaving or some other logical excuse comes up where you can gradually move people slowly together).

      Alternatively, just ask them how they feel and maybe you’ll find enough people are open to it that it isnt quite the challenge you expect.

      Reply ↓
    2. Mid*

      I would give people reasonable notice (two weeks max, so they have time to prepare and gripe a bit but not so much time it feels looming and has time to get bigger than it needs to be) and a clear reason why the change is happening (which you have! People aren’t sitting near their teams and desks have been randomly assigned for a while), and then let them pout about it a little bit. But it’s a good reason to have people move! Make sure you’re open to listening for legitimate reasons to oppose the move (are all desks the same? Are accommodations being kept? Is there even lighting around the space? Are bathrooms close to every desk? Are some desks below an air vent making them colder/warmer?) and finding reasonable solutions. It might be best to frame it as “Desks 1-10 are going to be for team A, desks 11-20 are for team B, how would the teams like to arrange themselves within those desks?” (Also, let people keep their office chairs, that seems to make moving desks less painful, sometimes literally!) Don’t go into it with the mindset of “this is a big horrible change” but rather “this is mildly inconvenient but makes a lot of sense for everyone so we’re all going to do it and it’s no big deal.”

      If you can arrange it, maybe have office moving day be a half day of everyone helping to move (assuming this is just moving small things like plants and pictures and not heavy equipment, if furniture needs to be moved, have professionals do that) and then lunch for everyone. It could also be framed as a good day for everyone to clean their offices out and declutter. Have larger recycling bins available and shredding bins as well. Have a compilation of Marie Kondo clips playing in the conference room maybe? Fun music? If that would fit the vibe of the office that is. I think free lunch is pretty mandatory though, and goes a long way to soothing people when they’re being inconvenienced.

      Reply ↓
    3. Rick Tq*

      Don’t rock the boat, and don’t move everyone without more justification than *you* don’t like it.

      You might be able to consolidate things the way you discussed over the course of years, doing it in one swell foop without their support will make you an enemy to be tolerated, not a manager to be supported.

      Reply ↓
    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      You’re going to get a lot of pushback and burn a lot of goodwill. I’d be cautious about it.

      Making it voluntary would be a pain but is one option (“we’re going to rearrange some seats so Team A and team B are clustered better, if you are interested in moving let person A know, they’ll be releasing the updated floorplan”)

      Focusing on just having good conference room or other meeting space for team A and team B to meet might be a work around. Doesn’t matter if you sit team A member by team B member as long as they have places they can go discuss with other team A members as needed. How much interaction do they need?

      I feel like I slack message people in the same row as me more than we verbally talk anyway…. You could promote mentoring in other ways rather than proximity too.

      Reply ↓
    6. Laggy Lu*

      I am not sure it’s inherently true that more junior people need to be closer to their manager. If anything, they need to be around their more experiences peers doing the same types of work. Also, there may be good reason for more senior people to be closer together.
      I would wait and take note of how people are currently working together, and see what can be improved. I wouldn’t move forward with blanket changes that may not have the affect you are looking for.

      Reply ↓
  41. PX*

    Welp, it finally happened – I got laid off this week (first time!). I’m in the UK so I’ll get a couple of months payout luckily which has helped the anxiety, but I feel sooooo discombobulated.

    I think its the surprise of it all. I had managed to survive previous rounds so had maybe thought I was safe, but getting the email saying my role was at risk (ie going to be eliminated) was actually a bit of a surprise when it finally came. Not being mentally prepared to hand over stuff and wrap things up has been a much weirder experience than I anticipated.

    I’m torn between getting right on the job hunt hustle (because with how the economy is, it might take ages to find a new role) vs taking some time off because I wasnt in the best place mentally anyway and probably need some time off to just recharge.

    Anyway, no real advice needed – just wanted to scream into the void a little bit (but obvs if anyone has any recommendations for UK recruiters or knows of jobs going in the Business/Strategy Operations space – hit me up!)

    Reply ↓
    1. Laggy Lu*

      Sorry that happened! I was in a similar boat (but in the US) last July, so I get it. I had survived 2 previous rounds of layoffs, and then didn’t. It took me a while to find a position, and I Am actually on contract now, so not ideal. Hopefully you can decompress, but not wait too long to get into job hunting – just so you don’t miss any opportunities. They seem to be slim these days.

      Reply ↓
  42. Thrift Store Manager*

    I hate micromanaging my team. We sell used furniture, and the space is divided up into bays by type (couches in bay 1, dressers and beds in bay 2, etc).

    I recently had to update our opening procedures because a long time employee decided not to turn on the lights in their bay at the start of the shift – making people dropping things off or wanting to buy things think the bay was closed for the first few hours of the day. When called out about it, they just shrugged and said that turning the lights on wasn’t part of the opening checklist. To me, this should have been a disciplinary matter, but our director said it was our oversight for not specifying lights should be turned on as part of our opening procedures, so those needed to be updated and we can’t hold the employee responsible for not knowing to do it.

    In 5 years of supervising shifts here, I’ve never had another employee (or this employee! Who predates me!) think they could leave the lights off when opening for the day. Updating the procedure to say “lights must be on” isn’t even hard… I just despise having to do it, because it feels like I’m treating everyone here like children, rather than calling out the single instance of bad behavior. Am I being unreasonable about this?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You’re not being unreasonable, but I think you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, and probably need to compromise.

      Your employee is being a jerk. And was hungover or something to boot, I would wager.

      Your director is non-confrontational and overly “nice”.

      Your employee manual/opening procedures could say “turn on all the lights in all the bays, as well as the open sign at the front door and blah blah blah.” They could also say “use your head and consider how things look to the public, and act accordingly.”

      If I were you I’d do the first, but I’d also tell the slacker employee in whatever language he’d understand “Not cool, man.”

      If you actually have to write the second thing down, you’ve got a lot more problems than one dude who didn’t turn on some lights.

      Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      I’ll fall on the side of “yes, the opening procedures should be that specific”. I assume, same as you, that the long-time employee was being difficult, but at some point someone new will end up doing the opening checklist. It’s always good to specify things like “turn on the lights – switch is on the northwest wall. They are not automatic”.

      I hear you on the micromanaging. It’s frustrating.

      Reply ↓
    3. Antilles*

      Your director is being ridiculous given this is a long-time employee. Does your director really think that your employee has been there a half decade and somehow doesn’t know that everybody turns on the lights in the morning? And pointing to “well the checklist didn’t say it” is a ridiculous excuse. In most industries, checklists aren’t really intended to be a 100.00% comprehensive list of every single item, step, and move along the way. You should update the checklist since your director said so, but you’re fair to be annoyed about it.
      I’d certainly start paying closer attention to this employee for a while though because this is so strange to come out of nowhere.

      Reply ↓
  43. Hotdog not dog*

    I’m feeling a little defeated right now. I know the long term solution is that I need a new job. (I’m looking, but it’s a process.) The issue is that I’ve had this job for just under a year, the previous one about 3, and the one before that 7 months. Prior to 2020, I had a slow but steady climb on the career ladder for about 25 years with the same company. I was unemployed for a good part of 2020 (as many people were) and since I returned to the work force my roles have all been more junior level. I thought my current role would be a step up, but it turns out to be a bait and switch; I’m having all my tasks delegated to me by his admin, and she essentially gives me whatever leftover work she doesn’t want to do herself. Not only am I bored to tears, but I’m not good at admin work. She also tends to give me things that are already overdue by the time she realizes she doesn’t have time to do it herself, so “my” work often appears to be late.
    I’m starting to think maybe I’d be better off starting over altogether in a new industry (I’m currently in financial services). I never graduated from college (ran out of time and money) and have no other work experience. Due to some physical limitations, retail or anything where I’d need to be on my feet for a long period wouldn’t be possible. What industry might be a good fit for a self educated, over 50, primary breadwinner who needs to start over? What I was very good at in my past was keeping track of hundreds of different policies, managing people and processes, and remaining calm in a crisis. I’m exhausted by the thought of starting over at entry level, but the current situation isn’t working.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Do you have any direct project management experience? Sounds like you’d be good at it, and that’s a skill that will serve you well in pretty much any industry.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hotdog not dog*

        I thought PM sounded like a reasonable alternative also, but I don’t have any formal education or training. Going back for a degree is not in my family’s budget right now. So far all the PM jobs I’ve found require a degree or formal experience.

        Reply ↓
    2. PX*

      How calm in what kind of crisis? Im about to leave a job that was software in financial services and incident management might be of interest (aka managing what happens and being in control when things go wrong). Lots of runbooks, processes and policies to keep track of and often working in a team with some customer contact/comms. You would likely need to be okay with on-call type of work though (aka its not a strict 9-5 type of job).

      Reply ↓
      1. Hotdog not dog*

        We had all kinds of crises, from market crashes where people were literally panicking, building evacuations due to weather, fire, terrorist threats; threatening behavior from clients and/or employees, medical emergencies, plus the usual “mundane” issues when something just didn’t go as planned. The funny thing is that my mom was an EMT, so I think I picked up part of her tolerance for chaos during my childhood. She used to tell me to be part of the solution or get out of the way, and I kind of absorbed that!

        Reply ↓
  44. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

    Higher ed nervous breakdown thread, anyone?

    I’m not grant-funded and have stellar performance reviews, but my university was already facing a fiscal deficit, and just announced hiring freezes and a bunch of other budget freezes. (I know of at least two other peer institutions doing similar freezes, and a former colleague at a different peer institution thinks a 25% budget cut for the 25-26 academic year is the optimistic scenario.) There’s nothing I can do about my job security, but god damn it, this is basically my dream job and I love where I live and I’m really upset and angry and scared, for myself, and for all the research that has been cut off at the knees, all the ways education improves the world.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alex*

      Same boat here. Higher ed. Institutional hiring freezes in place, likely followed by budget cuts. I have no idea how this is going to affect my job. I have stellar performance reviews, but that only goes so far. This is basically my dream job as well and I’d be devastated to lose it (especially in the face of the recession that is likely on the way!). So I’m just keeping my head down and hoping for the best, because that seems to be all I can do.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hesmerelda*

        I’m chiming in to express empathy with both of your situations, as I also support research grants and outreach at a private higher education institution. I accepted a new role in October and started in November, coming into a program now highly vulnerable to cuts in the coming year. I was genuinely excited about the opportunity, yet the daily news is crazy-making while trying to move forward as best I can. Hopefully, you can connect with colleagues and care for yourself as we try to guess what may happen next.

        Reply ↓
    2. Manders*

      Yeah, same. I was supposed to get a promotion the same week as the hiring freeze was announced, so at this point I’m just happy to have a job. I’ve worked with my boss for 25 years, so I know he’ll fight to keep my job over anyone else’s, but it’s not a happy environment. And I’m in infectious disease research, which a certain Cabinet member doesn’t think too highly of, so who knows what funding opportunities will be available in the next few years.

      Reply ↓
    3. Kelly*

      I think there’s a lot of reasonable anxiety in higher ed now. There’s a lot of uncertainty and worries about the future. It’s not just the federal funding for this current academic year. It’s going to be worse next year when work study funding for students could be at risk.

      My employer is on the list of institutions that could be potentially under investigation for a perceived failure to respond to anti-Semitism. It’s difficult to admit it but there is some validity to the complaints. I know of one person in another department who had a complaint filed against them due to their social media content. I’m not sure what the result was but they haven’t moderated their views much.

      I had stellar performance reviews until I somehow got on the bad side of my supervisor a year and a half ago. I was dealing with some personal and family issues and was trying my best to be present for my job and my family. In retrospect, I should have filed for FMLA paperwork to protect myself but did not. It’s too late now to file a complaint against her for retaliation. I thought at the time that it would just be easier to not fight back and hope that my compliance would satisfy her anger. I did start therapy which did help a lot, including learning how to be more assertive and stand up for myself, set some boundaries, and realize that I don’t have to do more than what I am expected to do. I also realized that it was unlikely that I would ever get any recognition for the exemplary work that I had been doing in the form of merit raises or awards, so I slowly stepped back from taking on more tasks. She finally caught on to that in my last review and I told her that I will do my work and any work assigned to me, but I won’t be making any suggestions or taking initiatives to start projects on my own until I get credit and recognition for them. I listed several examples where a colleague took credit for projects that had been proposed by me and got the positive feedback at my expense. I made a firm rebuttal to her last review, which I think helped.

      I’ve found other hobbies and outlets outside of work to keep busy. I show up, do my job and go home. I don’t work extra hours anymore. It’s better for my mental health.

      Despite all this, I’m feeling secure in my job because my credit thief colleague has managed to annoy her more by filing multiple false complaints, including a totally fake sexual harassment one against her. She’s tried to have him move to another department but it didn’t take due to him putting more effort into resisting than doing his job competently and her own tendency to be annoying towards others. Also, my impression is that it’s been made clear to her by leadership that she has to work with the team she has in place. He’s very chatty and I have to filter what he communicates for accuracy, especially because our supervisor is more cautious in how she communicates in writing with him now due to his false complaints against her. She doesn’t want to give him more documentation that he could use against her in the future.

      I’m more concerned about next fall and any potential reductions in campus student work study funding because we rely a lot of that to fund our student worker budget.

      Reply ↓
  45. TruthWillOut?*

    I am a data analyst just coming back from maternity leave, and I have a new coworker who joined soon after I went on leave, so he has several months’ experience in the role. I’ve caught enough simple mistakes in his work in the last week that I now automatically suspect the validity of any dataset he creates. Do I say something to my manager? Assume she’s on top of it? Offer to review his data with him (culturally appropriate on our team, but not required)? I’m just getting back in to the flow of my own work. I don’t want to overstep, but I hate to see probably-nonsense work barreling towards production.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      I think worth checking in with your manager to share what you’ve observed and how it’s impacting you, ask if there is any training/oversight going on to the extent she can share, and maybe offer the one review session without committing to being the one responsible for fixing this.

      Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      What kind of errors specifically? I was a Data Analyst for many years and got good at finding things like doubled fields, things in one table but not the other, line items listed separately due to mispelling but they were essentially the same thing, etc.

      People who worked at bigger companies always thought there was someone else checking for this stuff, not realizing they were not that person. Sometimes they need to be told

      Reply ↓
  46. Lurkyloo*

    So I have read the ‘my manager is a micromanager’ and the ‘bait and switch’ stories for years and now….It’s me. Hi, yeah, it’s me. :(
    A while back I mentioned I was a Canadian Fed employee who had to jump ship quickly or get canned for not (being able to) going into the office 3 days a week. I was lucky that I got to move to the provincial government in a role that played to my strengths! Yay! Only…not.
    My boss seems to have decided that I’m actually her EA, instead of me doing, ya know, the things I was brought in to do?
    We met with my grandboss yesterday who named me several times as in ‘Lurkyloo, this is where your strengths are needed’ and ‘this situation is why we brought Lurkyloo in’. My boss called me up immediately after and said ‘but that’s not REALLY why we brought you in’.
    I’m so demoralized and may scream if I have to do one more excel spreadsheet. :'(
    Oh and it’s one big happy family. *gag*

    Reply ↓
        1. MsM*

          Send an email: “Hey, boss, based on our conversation yesterday, I think there’s still some confusion about exactly what my responsibilities are. Can you put your understanding of what I should be prioritizing in writing? Copying grandboss to make sure we’re all on the same page. Thanks!”

          Reply ↓
  47. Omelas Employee*

    How do I list a job on my resume that I was temp and contracted by a third party agency for? I was hired to be a temp manager at Teapot Health through recruitment agency TeapotTalent. I am on TeapotTalent’s payroll and registered as their employee. Teapot Health is a really good org and is where I have been working so I want to keep their name visible, but if a future employer looked me up, I wouldn’t show as an employee there.

    How do I write this up on my resume?

    Reply ↓
    1. Mid*

      I would do
      Temporary Manager for Teapot Health, TeapotTalent
      [dates]
      -accomplishment 1
      -accomplishment 2
      -accomplishment 3

      Or more generally, treat Teapot Health as part of the job title, and TeapotTalent as your employer

      [job title], [company name]
      [dates of employment]

      Reply ↓
    2. Milton's Red Swingline Stapler*

      I’m an embedded contractor, which it sounds like you are as well. (I get my paycheck from the professional services firm, but all my work is for one company where I have a desk and am essentially a FT employee.) I list is on my resume as:
      Professional Services Firm, embedded contractor to Company
      Company Location, Dates of Employment

      Reply ↓
    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Mine said
      Role – Teapot Health (contracted through Teapot Talent)
      (Dates)
      (Responsibilities/accomplishments)

      I was subsequently hired permanently by Teapot Health and have been there for coming on 11 years with increasing responsibilities, so now that’s one of several roles listed under Teapot Health:
      Current role
      (Dates and responsibilities)
      Previous Roles x3
      (Dates and responsibilities for each)
      Previous Role (contracted through Teapot Talent)
      (Dates and responsibilities)

      Reply ↓
  48. Our own chaos employee is leaving!*

    Our chaos employee announced this morning that he’s accepted another job. Well, he actually announced last night on Slack that he had an announcement for us all this morning. And post-announcement, he posted on Slack that he will be holding his farewell celebration next Friday.

    As you can perhaps guess, this guy is totally full of himself, and he has a massively inflated sense of his own abilities. The company he’s going to has no idea what they’re getting – screwing up every deployment he’s done solo, creating new bugs in the code, just generally being clueless.

    It’ll be so great to have him gone. But team management hasn’t exactly helped the situation. They’ve focused so much effort on him (to the detriment of others), that they’ve helped convince him further that he’s the greatest. I’m hoping his leaving means some of that misplaced attention will be redirected.

    Reply ↓
  49. Kay Tee*

    Have you done any fun activities or games at a company banquet? We’re trying to make our spring party a little more engaging than just dinner/bar and remarks from leadership. We do a raffle to keep people around to hopefully socialize and hang out. Photo booth is always popular too. Some past activities have been hit or miss, like music bingo. I know company parties are inherently a bit dull, but I’d like to do what we can to make it a good and engaging experience!

    Reply ↓
    1. Mid*

      How many people are attending this, roughly? If it’s not for like 100+ people, maybe something like bowling could work? Or some other activity-based spot instead of a dinner-based spot?

      My friend’s (very large) company does a picnic/carnival thing that’s family friendly, so they have tents for people to eat (and tables, no one is sitting on the ground) and then tents with balloon animals, small carnival games, face painting (mainly for the kids), beer and other beverages. Because things are all in different tents, everyone ends up milling around and chatting with different groups of people throughout the event. There are typically around 250-300 people in attendance.

      Reply ↓
    2. Amber Rose*

      I’m not sure what music bingo is, but Name That Tune was pretty fun. Our attempt to bring in musical chairs is not something I think anyone should emulate though, especially if there has been drinking. -_-

      Drawing for door prizes usually goes over well.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kay Tee*

        I think it was essentially “Name that Tune” and mark it off your bingo card. The idea is to collab with people who know different eras/genres lol.

        People do love the door prizes, apparently someone snapped at a committee member when they took too long (literally just the end of dinner) to draw for it last year!

        Reply ↓
    3. Can't Sit Still*

      A murder mystery dinner can be fun, but with a larger group, you really need to hire professionals to keep everything moving in a timely fashion.

      I’ve been to at least 3 corporate murder mystery dinners and they have always been entertaining, especially when colleagues turn out to have undiscovered talents in melodrama.

      Reply ↓
    4. City Planner*

      I once worked at an organization that had a really fun banquet every year. Casino games were always a big hit, and then people used the tickets they won to try to win big gift baskets (you put your ticket(s) in the raffle for each gift basket you were interested in). One year they had a comedy improv group come and do an improv show for us with audience participation.

      Reply ↓
  50. MissBliss*

    After 8 months of looking, and 32 days in this particular interview process, I finally received a job offer this morning. It wasn’t what I was looking for salary-wise but they’re considering my counter offer and I expect they will accept. All goes well, I can give notice Monday.

    I know that professional decorum says I should resign at least over a phone call but 1) my boss is the entire reason I am leaving, 2) I had to take a 6 week emergency medical leave due to stress, and 3) former colleagues have given me the heads up that this boss doesn’t give references, ever, so I don’t really feel the need to preserve that relationship in order to be able to use leverage it in the future.

    Am I okay to just send a pleasant, factual resignation email instead of scheduling a call to resign?

    Reply ↓
    1. Rick Tq*

      An email should be fine. You have your next job now so having (or not having) a reference from BadBoss isn’t an issue.

      Reply ↓
    2. UpstateDownstate*

      Totally send an email, I’ve done that in the past when I knew I wouldn’t be asking someone for a reference and because scheduling an actual call was difficult due to the time difference.

      Congrats!!!!

      Reply ↓
    3. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I think it’s OK to email. Make sure they get it! I was in a similar situation and emailed my resignation on a Friday afternoon. I never had a reply from my boss, which wasn’t totally off base, and then Monday he was acting like everything was OK so I did have to ask if he’d received it. He hadn’t read it yet! Made a super awk convo. (We lived across the country from each other and rarely talked on the phone)

      Reply ↓
    4. Justin*

      I didn’t even hate my last boss but I sent notice via email.

      And the previous job, I told her face to face and she said, “please send an email for documentation.”

      Reply ↓
  51. Getting Away From Extremes*

    How do you work a “normal” 9-5 job?

    I’ve always worked at toxic dumpster fires where I was completely burnt out, cynical, resentful and angry, or at really great orgs where I was invested in the work, went above and beyond, and derived great satisfaction from the work and relationships with colleagues.

    15 years into my career, now I’m at a place where I have to work just… for the lack of better terms, “normally.” Not completely unengaged (and doing work I’m not proud of), but also not so invested in the work that I de-prioritize Something Else I need to focus on right now.

    I’m realizing I don’t know how to do that. What does working a “normal” job look like? Has anyone here transitioned from these two extremes to “normal” working? How did you do that? And how do you know where the line is between pulling back too much and doing just enough to fulfill my obligations?

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      Working a “normal” job means giving it a solid effort while you’re at work/during work hours, then signing off/leaving when the day is over and not thinking about it much after that.

      It means don’t work nights or weekends except in rare circumstances; it means take time off without worrying about your workload when you return and without taking a laptop with your or answering calls; it means at the end of the day/week you feel good about the things you accomplished but aren’t fixated on them.

      What are you struggling with, specifically?

      Reply ↓
      1. Getting Away From Extremes*

        Great question…

        I’m pretty good at leaving work at work, though I have a tendency to stay at work for more than 8 hours a day when I’m invested (working on that!). I don’t work after I close my laptop, or on weekends. The vacation stuff I’m guilty – being a department of one and all.

        A part of what I’m struggling to figure out is how hard I should work while I’m at work. My current work (that I need to pull back from) is really interesting and there’s always more that can be done (I might even say more that I want to do). So I end up running at 120% all day, get completely drained, and have not much energy left by the time I leave work to do much else.

        How do I know what’s enough and fair to the employer?

        Reply ↓
    2. Not A Project Manager*

      You sound like a friend of mine who is used to really high stress relationships and now is dating a nice normal guy and sort of feels like there’s not enough drama and it’s almost boring. My first tip is just stay at it and you may adjust to the new lower drama setting! Second, use some of that energy you’re not using on the chaos to do a really great job at the most interesting part of your role. Third, really take notice of the great feeling of being able to leave at five trusting that all is well. Maybe take a class or do something fun for yourself after work so you can reinforce that disconnection. Heads up that some of us are attracted to drama because we don’t want to deal with our own issues and being the “fixer” is a more satisfying role (soo guilty of this).

      Reply ↓
      1. Getting Away From Extremes*

        Wow, I love this: use some of that energy you’re not using on the chaos to do a rally greet job at the most interesting part of your role.”

        I should also take your advice on scheduling something fun after work. I tried that yesterday (went on a bike ride with hubby), and it was a great way to get out of the rut. Thank you!

        Reply ↓
  52. Mrs Kung Pao*

    Not really for me but for my spouse – is this as off base as I think it is?

    Husband’s boss continually sees 2 industry standards as an attempt to undermine him: email signature and out of office message. Email signature has the standard sign off, including his work title, which is different than boss’s. His boss is well tenured, and my husband has only been there 1.5 years, so people don’t know who he is. Boss continued to make this a big deal, so husband began removing the signature when he emailed boss directly, but leaves it on when he is emailing others and boss is CCed, so boss is aware it’s still there outward facing, and blew his lid on this. For the out of office message, it just said the standard ‘I am out, please contact [boss]’ phrase. My husband and his boss are the only 2 in the department, and it is a role where they field a lot of public inquiries. Boss claims that’s an attempt by husband to make it look like husband is the boss…… I don’t understand how one even gets to this train of thought. This is bananas, yeah?

    Reply ↓
      1. Mrs Kung Pao*

        No – that was spouse’s ask each time. Did not receive one. Boss is clearly very sensitive about people thinking my spouse is the boss, as it comes up in many ridiculous ways. Their offices are across from each other, and boss frequently has his light off, so ppl go to my spouse to ask a question. Boss thinks it’s because spouse is undermining him – spouse thinks it’s because he is the one with his light on lol.

        Reply ↓
    2. Alex*

      Yes. Everywhere I’ve worked I’ve been *required* to have both of those things. And I’ve never even been a manager.

      But I don’t think either is a hill to die on. I’d stop if told to.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      This is bananas.

      For the OOF message, could he change it to say “please contact my manager, [Boss]”?

      For signature… could he take the title off? Or add a “Manager: [Boss]” line? Is there a corporate signoff template they should be using he can refer to?

      Reply ↓
    4. Dinwar*

      I would push back on the email signature, especially if I were new.

      Email signatures are a thing for a reason. If I’m looking for a way to contact you, that email signature is worth gold–it has everything I need, in a system I’m already working in! I don’t have to hunt around in a dozen different locations! I cannot tell you how often this has come up in my career, or how frustrated I get when that signature is not there.

      For my part, I STRONGLY encourage those working on my teams to have a company-standard email signature for this reason.

      And why gripe about it? It’s one of those things that if you don’t need it, you can just ignore. A colleague that I’ve worked with for ages sent me an email with a signature today, but my eyes literally skipped over it–it never registered except as “Stuff is here, not important, moving on”. It doesn’t cost anything, or detract/distract from anything, and including it has real tangible benefits (time is money!). Your husband’s boss is just being weird.

      Reply ↓
  53. Justin*

    Those of you who’ve used an LMS and worked on the back end, what would be the most useful metrics to show growth?

    I track the total number of accounts but that’s not really a high bar – all my colleagues have accounts and any new student/participant gets one too.

    I’ll also be tracking unique logins (from various groups) so we knew how often it’s being used.

    Our company tracks “hours” for some of the other sort of individual coaching we provide, which is separate from this. But “hours” on the LMS doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t have a clue if you opened it and then walked away for 3 hours, each time you click, it logs it separately.

    We can track hours for tests/activities. But just using the site is what I mean.

    Any ideas, both in terms of the “hours” thing or anything else that would show its growth over time?

    Reply ↓
    1. Shutterdoula*

      Course completions (or activity completions)
      Ideally your LMS content will be set up with things that are somewhat interactive and that can give you trackable data in SCORM or xAPI.
      But if your LMS just has links to YouTube or something, there’s not much you can track.

      Reply ↓
      1. Justin*

        Yes, we can do the completions thing. We just don’t have THAT many classes yet, so I’m trying to think of other things as well.

        Reply ↓
  54. Can't Sit Still*

    Mini-rant:
    Why do vendors assume an early delivery is ok? Or give a delivery time or window and then disregard it? My company can’t be the only one with dedicated receiving times that needs advance notice if it’s going to be outside of that window to ensure someone is there to, you know, receive the delivery?

    I’d rather hear, “It will be delivered sometime tomorrow” than “It should arrive between 11 am – 1 pm,” but then show up at 9:45 am. The vendor is close by, so I assumed their delivery window was accurate.

    This is also made worse by the fact that there has been a GPS “update” recently that sends drivers to a literal dead end, so I have to provide written directions and a map like it’s 1995.

    Reply ↓
    1. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I hear you – the amount of times I have had to reschedule a delivery that was given a time window of 9-2 and showed up at 8:56 and then marked as undeliverable is too many times.

      Reply ↓
  55. Tau*

    So I started a new job two weeks ago. Overall, things are going great, but there’s something I’m wondering how to deal with where I’d welcome other people’s input.

    Long story short, I have ADHD. One of the consequences of this is that I try to work from the office whenever possible, because I find it much, much harder to focus WFH. One of the other consequences of this is that I have a very hard time focusing on video meetings if I’m not an active participant, even if there’s information in that meeting that is important and relevant to me. The only real way I’ve found to deal with this is to do something with my hands at the same time, with knitting being the single best one. (Adult colouring books also work pretty well, doodling works but is suboptimal and still leads to me missing information, fidget toys don’t seem to consume enough attention to do much.)

    The combination of these things is causing me to worry a little. I have no compunctions about knitting on work calls when working from home since it’s not visible on camera, but I’m concerned about the impression I’d give off whipping out my knitting needles in the middle of the office as an unknown quantity – especially as I work in a male-dominated industry (tech) and my new company is quite large. Team culture seems to be to take meetings at our desks with headsets most of the time instead of finding a room or call box, so the knitting would also be visible to all passerby. And my new team is much larger than my old one, so the meetings I’m in tend to have more participants with correspondingly more time needing to sit quietly, listen, and try to keep my squirrel brain from racing off after a shiny idea.

    Do I just dive in with the knitting anyway, maybe mentioning to the teammates nearby and my manager that I’m doing it because it helps me focus? I’ve had very good interactions with my teammates so far and my manager is actually a former colleague from a previous job who I have a good relationship with and who was eager to recruit me, plus the team culture seems very flexible and open so far… but I’m still not 100% sure it wouldn’t raise eyebrows, and I still worry about the impression I’d give off to passing colleagues and higher-ups who are *not* in my team. Do I try to find an alternate option that works well and isn’t as conspicuous? (Now taking ideas.) Do I try to make do with doodling and resign myself to missing bits and pieces? Or does anyone have any other ideas? Note that I haven’t disclosed the ADHD and want to avoid that if at all possible.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Project Manager*

      Oh dear, I don’t like the combination of new + only female + knitting in a big meeting. Are there any more “advanced” fidget toys that might work better for you? There’s a real range I think. Might a small piece of silly putty or blue tac work for you? I end up just taking meticulous notes for no reason to try and stay engaged, either on paper or typed, but it’s also boring and generally pointless.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tau*

        Yeah, this is my worry. I’m thankfully not the only woman in my team – I haven’t run the numbers but I think we’re about 1/4 female or thereabouts, which is a pretty good quota for the industry – but the optics of it are… yeah. :(

        I can look into whether there are any super-fancy fidget toys out there… the reason I’m uncertain is because my experience is that the other activity needs to take up a fairly significant amount of brainpower (like, my best experience is not just knitting but knitting something *complicated*), and I don’t think most fidget toys are designed for that. Like, just playing with some blue tac wouldn’t be enough, but sculpting something out of blue tac would probably work… but again raise eyebrows because it’d look (oh, the irony) as though I wasn’t paying attention.

        Taking meticulous notes might be the way forward (in retrospect, taking notes is the only way I managed to retain any information at all from lectures at university). I’m also worried about the optics of being one of the few women and taking notes in every meeting, but it’s probably easier to be subtle about that than about knitting, and it’d at least have the extra benefit of helping me learn about the project. I’ll give it a try.

        Reply ↓
    2. Mid*

      I’d skip the knitting until you’re a more known quantity (speaking as someone with ADHD who knitted in most of my college lectures to keep myself focused, and who knits on work calls occasionally!) it’s something that’s often distracting to other people, something that non-knitters think is far more mentally involved than it is, and something that will likely get you labeled as “that chick who knits” since people don’t have other information about you. (Also, just to note, the knitting motions can look rather inappropriate if your hands are off screen. Depending on how you knit, it can look like one arm is moving up and down around your crotch area. That was something a friend pointed out to me while we were on a friendly zoom call.)

      Would those metal puzzle toys be a more engaging fidget? Do you have a standing desk, and could you get a balance board or walking pad to stand on during meetings? Can you doodle in a more random/scribbly way instead of getting involved with it?

      I have to do rote data entry as part of my job, and when I need to look attentive and pay attention to a meeting, I’ll tend to work on the data entry on my other monitor, so I’m looking at my screen and also doing something easy so I can listen to the meeting.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tau*

        Ugh, I didn’t think about the possible knitting motions. I don’t think my shoulders are visibly moving while I knit, but I might have to check on this at some point.

        Metal puzzles… maybe. But I think it’s easy for me to fiddle with them in a fairly mindless way, and at that point not enough of my attention is being taken up and my brain is liable to swerve off into daydreaming. I *do* have a standing desk, though, and I know there are balance boards in the office – I can give that a try, possible in combination with a slightly more mindless fidget toy/doodle.

        …or, inspired by your data entry idea, I make myself some kind of data-entry-esque busywork spreadsheet that will make it *look like* I am doing something work-related but which is actually only there for me to copy some numbers around. The idea of this strikes me as both absurd and also like it could actually work.

        Reply ↓
    3. Je ne sais what*

      How accessibility/accommodation-friendly is your office generally? My office is super fidget-friendly, and there are multiple fiber art people, so we are often found knitting, crocheting, etc. I see you don’t want to disclose the ADHD, but there are actual studies now showing the benefit of fiber arts for ADHD and anxiety particularly, so I think if you have HR you could definitely make a case for that being a documented accommodation. That being said, I’ve been knitting as an anxiety coping mechanism since middle school, (I’m mid-30s now) and there have definitely been both professional and academic spaces where I can tell it’s being viewed as a little odd. Some of the ways I’ve kind of eased in are noting if other people talk about or ever bring in evidence of their hobbies. Do people have lego figures or rubic’s cubes on their desks? Action figures? Anything that shows some personality? Do you all talk about your hobbies in passing? If so, maybe ease in a comment or 2 here and there about knitting and see how they react. If nothing weird happens, maybe next time you’re in a team meeting, angle your camera so a small glimpse of your knitting might be seen, maybe accompanied by a breezy comment like “oh don’t mind me, I’m just knitting over here, it really helps me concentrate on what you’re saying.” I would make sure to be EXTRA engaged in the meeting the first few times, so they can see that you really are paying attention. After you’ve done it a few times, maybe mention it to your manager very casually like “I think you’ve noticed I’ve been knitting in some of our meetings lately, I’ve really noticed it helps me stay focused and absorb all the information being exchanged. I’m sure you’ll let me know if it’s a problem!”

      In a male-dominated office, I’d go pretty slow and gradual, but I think it’s much more acceptable these days than it used to be, for sure!

      Reply ↓
      1. Tau*

        It is… *really* hard to answer that first question, actually. In theory, yes, absolutely, I just finished the onboarding where we were basically bludgeoned with the variety of support options the company has for various employees in various situations. There are even specific, uh, contact people for disability who I could in theory send a chat message to and talk to. In practice…

        Thinking this over again, I think the big thing that throws a wrench into this is that I’m in Germany, and I get the impression that awareness of especially non-physical disabilities is not exactly as far advanced over here as in the US context that most of the commentators are coming from. At the same time, we have a very strong culture of employee rights and a lot of laws protecting them – especially in larger companies like mine, where we have e.g. various union negotiated agreements and also a workers’ council that has legal status and decision-making power – plus a somewhat more relationship-based work culture with more focus on consensus than in the US (also, oddly, generally more hierarchical, but a lot of workplaces are actively working against that nowadays, trying to be hip and cool and with everyone on an informal you basis and everything). The consequence is that a lot of things about my workplace would probably come off as ludicrously employee-friendly and flexible by US standards, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to all of the same things you’d expect in an employee-friendly and flexible US workplace, and especially something like neurodiversity awareness is something where it might be much worse than expected. Unhelpful: although I’m German, all the workplaces I’ve worked in so far have had far more Anglo influence (this is actually my first ever job where the company language is German) and a lot of my understanding of workplace norms comes from AAM so I myself am not sure how far this goes.

        Reply ↓
    4. Thoughts?*

      My former boss used to have the cc (teams calls it live captioning I believe) turned on for the video conferencing on her computer—gave her something to focus on visually—added bonus, her reading what people were saying helped things stick in her memory better than just hearing it. Have you tried that?

      Reply ↓
    5. PM by Day, Knitter by Night*

      I’m a woman in tech at a defense/manufacturing company. I knit in my cube on pretty much any call I’m not running and during any online training. (In fact I’m annoyed that I had to cancel a vendor sales presentation today because I was hoping to get a few rows done on a sweater…) If anyone comments – which rarely happens – I shrug and tell them it helps me focus. So I really want to tell you to give it a whirl and see how it goes. Two factors give me pause – that you’re so new and I’m not sure how senior you are.

      Two specific pieces of knitting advice if you go ahead. 1. No lace or colorwork. Too much counting and/or too many strands of yarn. Something relatively simple that doesn’t require consulting the pattern every row. 2. Something relatively small. Think socks, not a blanket. (I find socks really good for this purpose and keep a simple, in process pair in my computer bag.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Tau*

        I’m senior, and was actually specifically hired for my expertise in a language that’s now a large part of the team’s stack but which most of them don’t have a lot of experience with. So that part is thankfully not an issue!

        Ironically, I’ve found colorwork to work surprisingly well for this in the past (it feels like I need to shunt off an amount of attention that in most people would mean they’re goofing off which is… not helpful), but it’s definitely something where I can see how the optics would not be great :’) I might try some of the other pieces of advice first so I can be more of a known quantity, and then try some sock patterns. I’ve always meant to learn how to knit socks.

        Reply ↓
  56. Je ne sais what*

    I’ve been in my role at my organization for almost 2 years. I have about 10 years of relevant work experience that has led me to this mid-level role, and I was excited to accept the role when offered because it was a significant pay increase for me at the time. I didn’t realize that I had been pretty significantly underpaid for most of my career, and about a year ago my boss kinda let me in on the fact that I should be paid even more. Most people in my field have a graduate degree and 3-5 years of experience. I’m about halfway through the graduate degree relevant to my field, and have 10 years of experience, so she seemed to feel like I was worth it, but HR overruled her, primarily because I had just started my graduate degree. Boss attempted to get them to commit to a significant increase either when I complete the degree, or incremental increases over the 2ish years it’ll take to complete, but they weren’t willing to commit to anything. Last year after my evaluation, I got the usual 3% increase and a small market adjustment, totalling about $4k/year increase. That increase was across the board, so I’m still out of sync with my peers in the office.

    So it’s evaluation time again, and I’m hoping we can try again to get a raise considered. This morning, I got an email from a very closely adjacent office at my company about a role that has just opened on their team. The title is the same level as mine, just focused on a different community. Let’s say I’m an assistant director for teapot painting, and this role is assistant director for teapot designing. This new role’s low end salary range is about 10k more than I’m currently making (and I’m not making 6 figures, so that’s pretty significant). I’m very qualified, would do very similar work, and no mention of the graduate degree requirement. I feel confident that I could ask for the middle of the range if I were offered the role, which would be a 12-15k increase.

    Here’s the thing. I love my current job. I love the people I work with, I LOVE my manager, I feel good about the work I do and I’m really good at it. I would prefer to try and stay in my job with a better pay range. Is it crazy to go to my boss next week when we discuss my performance evaluation and say “hey, I saw this job in neighboring department with this pay range, and it feels comparable to my role. Can you tell me if it’s possible to get that raise and stay in my current role, and if not, can I have your support to apply for this other role?”

    She’s already demonstrated herself to be a supportive boss, and we’ve facilitated promotions or lateral moves within the company for people before, so I’m not worried about her causing problems with the other job at all. It feels a little aggressive to present her with this sort of ultimatum though. Thoughts?

    Reply ↓
    1. Mrs Kung Pao*

      I think you can bring it up and ask when the last time the pay bands for your role was adjusted, as you saw the listing etc.

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  57. Chicken Husband*

    I would like opinions of whether this is a bad idea or not.
    My wife started raising chickens as a COVID project and we currently have about 20 adult chickens. (That doesn’t include the 17 chicks she bought this week that are in the brooder.) Given that the weather is warming up, egg production is ramping up and we get 12-18 eggs every 2 days.
    With the cost of eggs going up, my wife is working on setting up a trading stand (“take what you want and leave what you can”) at the end of our driveway next to the road. She has also asked me to let my coworkers (all of whom know we have chickens) that she is willing to sell eggs at $3/dozen, which is about half the price at grocery stores in this area.

    On one hand, I see no problem with making this offer. We have more eggs than we know what to do with and she is selling for well under market price. (We aren’t price gouging.) On the other hand, I am asking my coworkers to pay me (technically my wife, but same idea) for something.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alex*

      Why don’t you just let your coworkers know about your trading stand?

      I don’t see anything wrong with selling things to coworkers, but I can imagine it getting out of hand in the office. Everyone will want these! What if you don’t have enough to meet demand? Who will get them? How will you get all those eggs into the office? Seems like a lot, and could be a major distraction in the office.

      I’d just say, hey everyone, we’ve opened a trading stand at the end of our driveway! Come by if you are interested in eggs.

      Reply ↓
      1. Chicken Husband*

        I don’t live anywhere near any of my coworkers. I’m about 40 minutes south of the workplace. Most of my coworkers live nearby, and pretty much everyone is north of the office.

        Getting them to the office is pretty easy. We have disposable cardboard egg cartons that I can use for transport. Since the eggs are fresh and not washed, they do not need to be kept refrigerated. (Washing eggs washes off a protective layer that keeps the eggs from spoiling. We have a basket of eggs on our kitchen table and they stay good for over a week.)

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    2. Not A Project Manager*

      I don’t think I would pitch my egg business to my coworkers, but I’d probably mention the chickens and if anyone asks about buying the eggs you can tell them the deal. But I think it may start quickly becoming a distraction if you’re doing any volume of egg business at the office. It seems to me that right now you could probably find lots of willing customers that aren’t your coworkers?

      Reply ↓
    3. Too Long Til Retirement*

      I would be immensely grateful if a coworker offered eggs at $3/dozen. No one is going to think that you are making the big bucks off eggs at that price! It’s more a cost for chicken feed and upkeep.

      Reply ↓
    4. Amber Rose*

      You’re not really asking your coworkers to pay you anymore than say, all those parents who hawk girl guide cookies at work. You’re just making an offer available to them and playing middleman.

      It would only be a problem if you were aggressively selling, like some MLM folk do. But just letting them know the offer is there is fine.

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    5. Mrs Kung Pao*

      My previous role, a few of us had chickens (me included), and while I didn’t sell my eggs, one of my coworkers did, and people were grateful for that. Fresh eggs are the best! This was many years ago where eggs were less polarized, but still.

      Reply ↓
    6. Dinwar*

      I agree that there’s nothing odd about this. As long as you’re not, say, a manager telling some of your staff but not others that you have the eggs for sale, you’re fine. You’re just letting people know you have eggs for sale, they can buy or not as they see fit.

      I, for one, would buy–chickens are omnivores, and eggs from chickens raised in smaller flocks (who tend to have access to the outdoors) taste better (richer, more complex) because of the more natural diets. Particularly in pastries and cakes, FYI, in case any coworker does those as a hobby. ;) Had some relatives win county fair competitions that way.

      If it gets to the point where it’s a significant distraction definitely reconsider. But as long as it’s along the lines of “Just letting you know, I left your eggs in the fridge in the break room with a sticky note on them”, you’re fine.

      Reply ↓
    7. Mid*

      My coworker has chickens and when he has excess eggs, will send an office wide email (we have a buy/sell listserv) saying he has X dozen available for $Y, first come first serve. It works great for everyone.

      Reply ↓
    8. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      This is not weird at all. Many people at my workplace do something like this, either with eggs or produce or even flowers. There are a lot of farms nearby! Go for it, I can imagine there will be many people who are grateful for such a great deal.

      Reply ↓
  58. Too Long Til Retirement*

    Some background before I ask the question: I work for a family owned company. There is no real “HR,” all the employment and insurance paperwork is handled by the owner’s daughter. The daughter has been allowed to WFH full time since the pandemic. One other employee moved across the country and has been allowed to work remotely since the move.

    My job entails site visits and there are times where I do in fact need to be in the office. But I do not need to be in the office every day, and there are many days where I travel to the office to simply stare at my computer, do work, and then turn around and drive home. I would REALLY enjoy a hybrid work schedule, and it is grating on me more and more knowing that some employees get to work remotely while the rest of us do not.

    Has anyone been able to successfully ask for and receive a hybrid work schedule, using other employees as an example if there was pushback on it? If yes, what words did you use? Or is this simply a case of “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.”?

    Reply ↓
    1. Rick Tq*

      How strong is your position and what is your relationship with the owner? If you are a critical employee with a lot of capital with the Boss you may be able to just start working from home.

      Back in the day our owner was a Meat in the Seats guy so I was commuting 80 miles one-way. After my daughter was born the company opened up its first satellite office about 10 miles from my house. I had a good relationship with Management and enough political capital one day I moved into the satellite office and told my supervisor “I’m not coming to HQ anymore, I will be working from office up here going forward. I will be in the office, you will be able to see me working, but I can’t lose 3 hours of my day driving to HQ for no reason”.

      That was 20 years ago.

      Reply ↓
      1. Too Long Til Retirement*

        I’m the person who the owner goes to for all projects he needs work on, so my role is critical. He has expressed dismay at the thought of me leaving, so that is on my side.

        He is a “meat in the seats” (thank you for that expression, I love it!) person who prefers to walk to my office or use the interoffice phone to talk to me instead of his cell phone. He also needs some hand holding sometimes when projects get complicated and needs that to be in-person many times. Other employees have taken to “making demands” of him that have led to them quitting when he wouldn’t cave, so I am wary of asking for it for that reason.

        Glad to hear that it worked out for you, but I don’t think me saying “I’m not coming to HQ anymore” would go over well at all.

        Reply ↓
  59. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    I would just like to thank Alison for the “final F-you” discussion, which provided a great deal of much-needed entertainment.

    Reply ↓
  60. Aggretsuko*

    How do I get myself out of the blahs? I am not sick, I have had 8 hours of sleep, I have no justifiable reason not to be here and I have to do something a few hours after work in this town, so I couldn’t go home if I wanted to. It’s pouring rain and freezing cold and I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING TODAY, EVERYTHING IS BORING. I can’t work on anything I want to work on and yet have to look busy, I’m dragging through boring Office 365 classes and I don’t care about what I’m “supposed” to learn (got told we have to do 2 hours of classes a month to keep our license) and I JUST WANNA BE IN BED. But I have six more hours to endure and pretend to be caring.

    Reply ↓
    2. ruthling*

      Can you do something you never get to because it is tedious and kind of lean into the suck? I do stuff like filing emails or deleting things that need to be deleted.

      Reply ↓
  61. please advise*

    I will soon be taking over a lot of academic advising responsibilities and have been tasked with coming up with a training plan to teach myself how to be an advisor. I can get some funding for this, but I have not been given a set budget- basically just “hey, pitch us what you need for this and we’ll fund it within reason”. I have some background in student affairs/general higher ed but no prior advising experiences. I’m signing up for national and regional orgs and reaching out to people who have somewhat similar roles at my institution, but does anyone have suggestions for other things I should do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Je ne sais what*

      Are there people who do advising at your institution? It’s pretty important that you be at the same institution if you’re going to do this; Just go ask them if you can shadow some advising appointments for a couple of days. It’s ok if they’re advising on a different topic, just pay attention to the structure and approach. That’s how I learned most of my advising skills. I also teach students to be peer advisors, and role-playing advising is the best teacher in my opinion. Find people to practice with. Do some research and practice on reflective listening. Put together a file or document with all the resources advisees might need, so you can remember where everything is. Make sure you know what to do and who to talk to if you don’t know the answer to a question.

      Reply ↓
    3. Rainy*

      Disclaimer: I work in higher ed, student facing, but am not an academic advisor.

      Second the shadowing recommendation from Je ne sais what. Also, if you know what your population is going to be, start familiarizing yourself with the requirements for those majors/minors. Figure out who you can refer students to if you’re not the right person for them to talk to. Examples: you do A&S advising and end up with someone who’s switching to a different college, or what they actually want to talk about is internships not for credit, or they need career guidance rather than academic advising, or they need to talk to Health & Wellness, Financial Aid, or someone from Academic Resources or the Disability Services office. Reach out to people in those areas and have a quick meeting just to see a face. Seek out trainings in whatever student information system your institution uses (Slate, Banner, whatever–I hope it’s not the garbage build that SalesForce has been selling to higher ed, gods help you if it is).

      Reply ↓
  62. babylawyer*

    Is it unprofessional to bring a Stanley-style cup to a board meeting? I recently got a couple of knockoff Stanley Cups (24oz) because I like to drink large quantities of iced tea as my morning caffeine in the warmer months and this style of cup is great for transporting it. I am a new associate at a law firm and I regularly attend board meetings for organizations that my firm represents. I have generally opted not to bring my cup of tea to these meetings (which are first thing in the morning) because I worry that people associate that style of cup with bratty tweens, trend seekers, and ladies beating each other up in Target to get the latest drop. I am a 26 year old woman and am always conscious of not appearing juvenile in these settings, because I’m always the youngest person in the room by at least a decade, usually more. Am I overthinking this, or is my instinct correct?

    Reply ↓
    1. YNWA*

      Personally, I think you’re overthinking it. Most people don’t care about what brand a mug is and only very online people are going to even be aware of the hype around Stanley cups. I have a 32 oz Yeti I bring everywhere with me because I drink a lot of water and no one has ever remarked on it. And I think at one point people were boycotting Yeti’s for some reason but I don’t care, it keeps ice for 8+ hours.

      Reply ↓
    2. Shutterdoula*

      Just don’t put stickers, charms, or other accessories on it and you should be fine. I wouldn’t blink at a plain insulated mug. But add some kitty stickers, a fuzzy pig charm and a snack cup and I’d wonder about you.

      Reply ↓
      1. babylawyer*

        No charms or stickers, but the two I have are hot pink or teal. Not the colors I would have chosen, just the colors in the 2 pack that Costco had on sale. I assume teal is better than hot pink, but both are pretty youthful colors.

        Reply ↓
      2. Zona the Great*

        FWIW, I work in a highly visible and highly professional field with legislators and the like and no one would “wonder about you” if you bejeweled your Stanley.

        Reply ↓
    3. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      If you’re sitting with the board, I wouldn’t. If you’re sitting in the audience, probably not an issue.

      Reply ↓
      1. babylawyer*

        No audience in these setups. Just a big board room table where all the trustees sit with the lawyers, accountants, investment advisors, etc. The trustees are all very casual, but all the advisors are more buttoned up.

        Reply ↓
    4. Justme, The OG*

      You’re overthinking this in a general sense. But I don’t really know the dynamics of your law office.

      Reply ↓
    5. Laggy Lu*

      You are probably over thinking it. But, if you are still worried, why don’t you have a regular glass or smaller mug on hand you can pour some of your tea into for the meetings.

      Reply ↓
  63. Ankle Grooni*

    Reaching out for advice on how to support one of my student employees who I have been working with for several years to help feel supported and successful. The student is cognitive diverse.

    They have been in kind of a holding pattern at my institution and have completed two master’s degrees. They felt safe and supported in the learning and working environment here, but realize that we cannot continue to be their long-term resolution and need to move on. They are an excellent and meticulous computer programmer and given clear instructions and additional time, they would be invaluable to many organizations.

    It’s the interpersonal and social skills that become overwhelming. What kind of accommodations would they be able to request for an interview? What type of workplace would they start looking for?

    Our school’s career center is not equipped for assisting a student like them with interviewing or networking skills. Does anyone in the community have any insight that I can share with them?

    Much obliged.

    Reply ↓
    1. Still Queer, Still Here*

      Well first, are they open to asking for accommodations? I’ve done interview prep and planning with folks like this before, and often they are very averse to disclosing or asking for accommodations. So you need to figure that out first.

      If they’re open to it, then I think the best accommodation for folks with these challenges are asking if they can get some or all of the interview questions ahead of time, like 12-24 hours. Ask HR or a recruiter about it, not the hiring manager if possible. Since they’re a programmer, focus on jobs that require a coding test or something first, those are less likely to require a lot of soft skill demonstration in an interview. There are also a couple of job boards focused on hiring neurodiverse candidates, such as Mentra, Neurodiversity Employment Network, Neurodiverse Career Connector. There are also some Reddit Communities where people share resources–Grain of salt with those.

      Reply ↓
  64. Shutterdoula*

    Inspired by the spouse’s social media thread above, my husband is applying for a job that requires a security clearance/check. As part of that, they want names & addresses of all of his siblings and all of mine as well.
    Only problem is, I’m estranged from some of my family and do not even know where some of my siblings live. One in particular, I know the city he lived in twenty years ago – and that was two states away. No idea if he’s still there, he was in college then. With a fairly common name (like “Mike Anderson” or “Steve Lewis” level of common – there are probably hundreds of people in the US with his name.) I doubt I could even find him, and I definitely do not want him back in my life!
    Surely I’m not the only one in this situation. Other people have family they’re not in touch with, right? Is this the kind of thing that could keep him from getting the job? How should it be handled on the application? Husband says leave him off entirely. I suggested putting his name and then just “unknown”. Or asking how to handle it. Husband is nervous to ask them. I feel like my husband shouldn’t be ruled out of this job because this brother is a massive glassbowl.

    Reply ↓
    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Definitely don’t leave him off a security clearance form, they will find the connection and leaving it off looks shady. I think your way of listing his name and “unknown” for contact information is probably best.

      Reply ↓
      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yep, this. They may come back and ask when/where you last were in contact. If you’ve been estranged for a long time, then they aren’t going to be able to tell the investigator anything about your conduct and character, and investigators know to be leery of people with axes to grind.

        Investigators don’t just ask your contacts questions about you. They also ask ‘who else does Jane Doe know?’ and ‘could you tell us how we can reach Jane’s brother Fergus?’ And they will go to your current and previous address and knock on doors too.

        Reply ↓
    2. pally*

      My take: I would indicate the sibling exists and indicate “whereabouts unknown”. I wouldn’t even indicate last known address/location. Thing is: what will the company conclude should they discover this sibling was omitted? That your husband lied? He’s not lying if he lists the sibling and does not know where they are located. Let the company deal with the common name issue.

      FYI: a neighbor of mine had to go through gov’t security clearance where he had to list all of his neighbors (me for one!).
      They interviewed me. The questions were mostly to find out if he was paying his bills (how would I know that??), causing trouble (“are the cops here a lot?” My response: never. They are more likely to be at my place than his!) and if I knew if he was hanging around anyone that might be a national security risk (how would I be able to tell that??).

      Apparently, they did not talk to everyone he listed as neighbors. I just happened to be home. Maybe they will see that there’s no value in digging up relatives whose whereabouts are not known by you.

      And he got the job!

      Reply ↓
    3. Rick Tq*

      Provide all the information you have, omitting him entirely will likely cause your husband to fail the background check. I will bet the signature block includes something to the effect of “I swear the information provided is true and complete to the best of my knowledge” so intentionally omitting him would be BAD.

      If you haven’t had contact with BadBro for 20 years put down the last information you in the address field and note that you are estranged.

      Reply ↓
  65. NPNP*

    Resume advice requested:
    What’s better, so say “lead a team of professionals who design teapots” or “ Lead a team of 21 teapot designers”? And does the number matter? So if it’s 8 ppl say the number, but if it’s 3 don’t specify?

    Reply ↓
    1. Shutterdoula*

      Go with the shorter, active phrasing “teapot designers”. I would assume they’re professionals and not, say, a group of kindergartners pretending to be professionals.
      As for the number, I think that’s less clear – but if there’s space, you could include it.

      Reply ↓
    2. Deit*

      Numbers are better but also try making the bullets STAR.

      Led teapot designers. meh.

      Led 3 teapot designers. OK.

      Led 3 teapot designers who won the contract for the empires tea ceremony. Good.

      Reply ↓
  66. Kesnit*

    My coworkers and I are having problems with someone we have to work with.

    I’m a prosecutor in a small city. One of the local defense attorneys, Shelly, started work in July 2023 after she took the Bar. She went from undergrad to law school to her current job, so is in her mid-20s. Shelly is a good attorney. There is no reason she should feel like she needs to flirt her way to a good deal for her clients, but she does. She plays up being “cute” and “flirty,” often defaulting to “eye batting” and baby voice if negotiations aren’t going her way. I assumed that once she got more comfortable in court, she’d back off the childishness. She hasn’t, and her actions have gone past “amusing” to “frustrating.” One of my coworkers commented that working with Shelly is like trying to talk to his 22-month old daughter.

    Shelly does have more senior attorneys in her office (several of whom are female), but she handles most of her cases solo.

    Reply ↓
    1. Deit*

      My first thought is that this is a you and your coworker problem.

      My second thought is that even if Shelly is being flirty, it’s not your circus not your monkeys.

      My thoughts regardless of the situation is that you should stop gossiping with your coworkers about Shelly.

      Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      If you’ve got a good relationship with the more senior attorneys, maybe you can ask them if anyone’s tried mentoring her on this?

      Otherwise, unless she’s going so over the top in negotiations that you have an opening to point out that she’s harming her attempts to be persuasive with these antics, I think it’s something you just need to do your best to ignore. Eventually, she’s going to come in front of a judge who will not find it charming and let her know in no uncertain terms, and maybe (hopefully) that’ll shake her out of it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not A Project Manager*

        Yes, the only person well positioned to address this is a female senior attorney on her side. If that’s not you, it’s not something I would get into.

        Reply ↓
    3. pally*

      Wow!
      We had an employee like this. Apparently, the only way she knew how to interact with the male employees was to be flirty.

      I hope someone took her aside to suggest to her that this really wasn’t the most professional way to interact with people at work.

      Don’t know what her life was like after she quit to move back home.

      Reply ↓
    4. AnonToday*

      Ooh, this is tough. Is the flirting directed at you or is it just grating to be around it? I’m not in law and unsure how lawyers work together, sorry if that clouds my response!

      Is the flirting working during her negotiations? The reason I ask is because when I was younger and in grad school, I probably turned up the charm because it seemed to resonate really well with specific types of male professors. Just kind of figured I might as well use that to my advantage since I was stuck within the patriarchal systems of academia. If you have any sort of mentorship role with her you could let her know that even if it works on a few people, it’s leaving a bad taste for possibly more and could impact her career.

      Reply ↓
    5. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I mean… being annoyed at opposing counsel’s tactics feels part and parcel to litigation.

      Reply ↓
  67. Golden*

    Any tips on how to get over feeling really blue when your referral doesn’t work out?

    My industry (not government) has been clobbered by layoffs and market downturns, and I was lucky to leave my last company just months before it folded. I’ve referred at least 5 colleagues from there to my new organization, but not a single one has been hired. I’m devastated for my colleagues having to continue their search in an unfriendly market, and it’s dragging my mood down a lot. Anyone else experience something similar?

    Reply ↓
  68. Gabriel Susan Lewis*

    I had an initial phone interview today with a recruiter and was asked a couple of the dreaded “tell me about a time when..” questions.

    I understand why interviewers ask these questions, but I tend to struggle with them. There are some that I can answer fairly confidently, but there are others that I have a lot of trouble with. Sometimes it is because the question doesn’t apply to my work experience (such as if it’s related to management). Other times, it’s because any story I can think of doesn’t sound like a good example to me, such as asking about conflict when the only stories I can think of involve my boss (to be clear, I consider disagreement to count as conflict and assume that the interviewer thinks the same). I’d say most of the time, though, it’s either because I can’t think of any instances, or I’m asked about something that has happened several times but no single instance of it stands out. Typically, when I get stuck, I try to say what I think I would do if the situation were to happen or what I did in the multiple instances that it happened. I also had times where I asked if we could come back to the question to give me time to come up with an answer and, if the interviewer didn’t bring it up first, I would remind them and have my answer. I admittedly haven’t used the latter approach recently.

    I have wondered if it would be a good idea to start logging when things happen, but so many of these things don’t seem significant enough in the moment to try to remember them in the long run. I could also be better at preparing for these questions before the interview, but I think I do better if I don’t overthink interviews. I did a lot of that when I was coming out of college and it didn’t feel helpful. It also doesn’t help that I almost never know ahead of time what questions the interviewer will ask. I have seen suggestions online about asking for the questions prior to the interview but I’m skeptical about how that would be perceived.

    I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about what I could do to not be so blindsided by these questions.

    Reply ↓
    1. Thoughts?*

      I’ve prepped answers in advance…Alison’s book has a number of standard ones (including the ones you’ve mentioned) that I’ve used.

      I also usually have 2-3 scenarios that I can use for a number of the questions (conflict/difficult employee or colleague is one; conflict/competing deadlines/ is another; conflict/differing opinions/overcoming obstacles is a third)

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    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Your idea about building up a log is a good one.

      Can you devote 10 minutes every Friday to reflect on the week past and note those things down? You can also try to get in the habit of bookmarking the email/memo/whatever that document a task or issue that you want to use as an example. Then it’s just a matter of reviewing those before the interview to bring the topic back into memory.

      Conflict also doesn’t have to be in real time and person-to-person. You can have a conflict with policy & procedure too, and you work it out by getting the policy changed, or applying for a waiver, or convincing the customer to go another way, etc.

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    3. Not A Project Manager*

      Honestly, I do end up fudging my ‘tell me about a time’ answers a fair amount. That’s probably a bad answer and I hope other commenters have better suggestions – and I know even Alison has said these are good questions for the interviewer. But fairly often they are so specific, and I really can’t think of a great example on the fly, and answer “that has never happened to me” more than once seems awful – even once seems awful. So, I fudge it. I’ll use an example that was real and is as close as possible but I may edit the facts to better fit the requirements of the question, or sometimes say what I would have done if I was the decisionmaker, or something. Obviously don’t lie-lie in a way that would come out on a reference check.

      Reply ↓
  69. llama whisperer*

    TL;DR 1) what would you do in my shoes and 2) suggestions for potential scripts to negotiate a later start date?

    I… strongly dislike the company I work for. The day-to-day work I like, but the upper management and financial practices are horrendous. None of which are things I can change, so I keep my head down as best as I can to focus on my output. My direct manager has gone above and beyond in protecting us from most of the shenanigans at the company. They too, however, have had enough of the gaslighting and disrespect from upper management and are moving on to a new company. The lack of shield puts us much closer to the “action”, which I want to avoid. Due to the erratic and reactionary decision making of upper management, I know it’s in my best interest to leave the job on my own terms rather than be “blindsided” by a RIF, which has happened twice in the past year to others.

    Here’s where I feel like I’m stuck: I’m moving at the end of summer, and I would really like to have some time off to get settled, take a vacation without the lingering threat of “back to work”, and just enjoy time with my family (two niblings arriving within 3 weeks of each other!). Given that 1) the current job is fully remote, 2) the job market is rough and 3) said desire to have a break, I don’t feel like I should take a new job just yet, despite the alarm bells going off at my current position. Prior to my current role, I took a leap of faith and quit my previous position without something lined up in advance. I ended up taking four months off to recharge, and would love to have even a fraction of that time again before starting my next position (but it feels almost irresponsible in today’s climate).

    I’m applying and have had some preliminary interviews. None have progressed to the final stage yet, but I’m still hesitant to accept something right now if/when something pans out.

    I know for something like the vacation, I could say “I have non-refundable plans for X weeks, will this be able to be accommodated through paid or unpaid leave” before accepting an offer. I feel like negotiating a start date beyond the standard 2-4 weeks from getting an offer, on the other hand, is trickier.

    Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any suggestions for negotiating a later start date?

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      I changed jobs a few years ago, and two of my friends (in a different industry) also changed jobs around that time. All of us asked for a start date roughly 6 weeks post-offer, and all three companies said “yes.” A few caveats:

      – this was in peak “great resignation/great job-swap” times, so companies were (in general) more desperate than workers
      – two of the companies were small and start-up-ish, so they were generally on board with having a new employee start after a month off of work
      – one of the companies was large and established, and not happy in the moment to have the start date pushed so far out (but a few years later I don’t think anyone even remembers that the start date was so “late”)

      I think in all three cases, we asked “does [date] work as a start date?” No further explanation, just ask the question and wait for the response (that’s how mine went, I assume it was similar for both of my friends).

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  70. Qwerty*

    Anyone have experience using a ReMarkable e-reader/tablet at work? I’ve been debating getting one but would like to hear pro/cons from various jobs. I usually write a lot of notes on paper but can rarely find the relevant page later. Plus I’m going to have a lot more digital documents to read over the next few months. Some former coworkers had the first version and liked it but I’m not in touch anymore to ask follow up questions

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  71. Chocolate Teapot*

    After the question this week about complementing a woman on her “pretty” name, I had a similar situation at work yesterday.

    An external trainer was in the office for the day and asked the participants to introduce themselves and their experience with the topic. When it got to me, the trainer said “Oh, my wife is called Chocolate Teapot as well.”

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  72. Lucy P*

    To tell or not to tell?

    Hubby and I frequently eat dinner at a very small, family run, neighborhood restaurant on weekends. There’s just one waitress and one cook on those days.

    About a year ago the restaurant hired a new waitress, Mimi, to work just Saturdays for the lunch and dinner shifts. Over the course of time we became politely friendly.

    Mimi would often complain that there weren’t a lot of customers on the weekend, and thus she didn’t make a lot of money. Often she would say, “You and Mr. Smith are the only tables I’ve had all day.” We had no way of knowing whether or not she was telling the truth. She would also complain that it was her only source of income. (She had about a dozen different week-day jobs in the course of a year that never seemed to work out.)

    Recently, the restaurant started closing early on Saturdays due to carnival parades in our area. So, hubby and I switched to eating lunch there instead of dinner. The first thing we noticed was that there always at least 1-2 tables of diners who got there before us. Then, as other people came in, she seemingly pushed them away.

    We saw multiple couples walk in the door, get seated, and then Mimi would tell them, “We stopped serving breakfast already.” It’s a small enough place that you can hear what everyone says. No one asked for a breakfast menu. Plus, there are certain breakfast items that are served all day.

    Once, a group of 10 came in for lunch. She told them she couldn’t serve them because they hadn’t made reservations. When they left, she immediately realized what she had done and then ran outside to beg them to come back. Once she began taking their orders, she started saying that they were out of certain items without even checking for stock (she does this to us often). One by one you could hear this group changing their orders to things that she knew were in stock. For instance, almost half of them changed from soft drink or wine to just tap water.

    When other people come in, she’ll grumble under her breath, but then she does serve them.

    This doesn’t affect us directly, but someone with such a bad personality and bad work habit can really affect the reputation of a small business. I was going to ask if we should alert the owners about this Mimi, but Mimi messaged me during the week to let me know she had been fired. Had she not been fired, do you think these were issue worth bringing up?

    Reply ↓

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