open thread – March 21, 2025

by Alison Green on March 21, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 648 comments }

{ 648 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Not counter cultural*

    Just curious how your company would handle an employee without a smartphone (for app/login verification) and who wanted paper paychecks? Friend of mine said her office just hired a guy who is rather counter-cultural. He doesn’t even have a flip phone and wants paper paychecks. HR said you either get your pay on a debit card or direct deposit. No paper checks. IT didn’t have yubikeys for physical authentication of logons. I’m told IT wanted the guy’s manager or supervisor to be his authentication on their phones and all refused. IT had to order a yubikey.

    Reply ↓
      1. Alice*

        I don’t really get that. If you are doing data security seriously, wouldn’t you want to provide the device that people are using for 2FA? Instead of letting them use whatever personal device they happen to have, with who knows what applications sideloaded on to it, and whose passcode might be known to their kids and partner.

        Reply ↓
        1. EmF*

          My employer recently switched to requiring Microsoft Authenticator as its sole and only 2FA method, which seems really at odds with its policy of “do not ever use personal devices for work purposes.”

          Like, I get that 2FA apps by themselves aren’t terrible when it comes to crossing the work/personal streams, but I know how tech-savvy a lot of my colleagues are (“No, you should not use google translate to translate that email that contains a bunch of PII.”) and I can absolutely see people going “oh, it’s okay to use my personal device for work purposes for this, it’s not that big a jump to using it for this other thing.”

          Reply ↓
        2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          The thing is that people are going to be more secure with their own devices than some random key fob. When we had them at past jobs people would lose them all the time.

          At one place if you didn’t or couldn’t have it on your own cell phone you could use a work phone number to get a phone call with a one time passcode. I don’t know what my one coworker did when they changed the phone system to VOIP and you had to be logged into the system to get a phone call (which you needed to have a passcode for).

          Reply ↓
      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        There are secure authentication devices that don’t require a smartphone. It should be provided by the employer.

        Reply ↓
        1. JustCuz*

          We have these things that give you a randomly generated number when you push the button. You then enter that number in.

          Reply ↓
        2. I've Escaped Cubicle Land*

          Seconding Charlotte Lucas. I work for a state government department. They went for a security thing that called our desk phones to wanting us to put an app on our cell phones. No they would not give us work cell phones or pay a percentage of our cell phone bills. So that was a no from me. (luckily i had an very old android at the time that wouldn’t have down loaded an app without dying) So the state provided yubikeys. I also live in a rural small town. Great reliable internet, but spotty cell service. Paper checks I can see saying no to. They offered more then 1 way of getting paid. Might night be his preferred way. But he has options to choose from.

          Reply ↓
      3. Hyaline*

        Yes—but I honestly think requiring a phone as the device is unreasonable when there are other options. I work at a university and we’ve always had the option of a key fob style token for login authentication.

        Reply ↓
    3. NotaMac*

      My perspective is that requiring staff to use their personal phones for login is unreasonable and frankly cheap. Other solutions exist that don’t require staff to donate their personal device and data, and why companies want folks logging in using unsecured personal phones I don’t know.

      Paper pay cheques is certainly unusual, but I wonder if they could force anyone to use direct deposit if someone really pushed it. Anyone got legal precedent?

      Reply ↓
      1. Not counter cultural*

        How is using an authentication app on a personal smartphone a security risk? My company required Google Authenticator, which I was already using for personal stuff.

        Reply ↓
        1. Angstrom*

          I don’t want any work-related software on my personal devices. If I need it to do my job work should supply the equipment needed.

          Reply ↓
          1. Not counter cultural*

            I’m not talking about work related software. I’m talking about adding the work login to an app you’re already using for personal stuff. My office required Google Authenticator. I was already using it. I just added work login.

            Reply ↓
            2. EmF*

              Great! I also use outlook on my personal PC. By that logic, can I add my work email? It’s an app I’m already using for personal stuff, after all.

              (I’m aware there are qualitative differences in the sensitivity of data being transmitted, but the logic’s the same.)

              Reply ↓
              1. Strive to Excel*

                I’ll say that I’m a huge proponent of “No work on personal devices”, but the authenticator is my exception since I don’t want to carry around an extra key-fob or whatever. It’s because a) the sensitivity of the data is wildly different and b) there is 0 temptation to look at the authenticator app and say “ah yes, I should answer this email on a weekend!”.

                I don’t have a work phone though. If I did have a work phone my response would be different. The authenticator is my one and only exception.

                Reply ↓
                1. amoeba*

                  Yeah, and least for us, the frequency with which you use it is so much lower. I mean, I use MS Authenticator maaaaaybe… once a month? Like, buying devices just for that seems so over the top. (Although we do get company smartphones nowadays, so it wouldn’t be a problem either way.)

                  That said, I guess IT would probably find a way around that requirement. The paper paychecks would be an absolute no, though. But I guess here in Europe that would seem even more weird, as cheques haven’t really been in use here for as far as I can remember – certainly decades! Everything is direct deposit/bank transfer, there is simply no other option. I mean, I don’t think it’s even possible for a person responsible for their own bills and stuff to *not* have that hereabouts.

                2. Anonymoose*

                  @amoeba
                  Agreed about paper paycheques feeling antiquated. About 10 years ago now the Canadian government had a huge clusterfk with their new pay system that failed to pay many employees, and at that time they resorted to paper cheques. At the time it felt like a really outdated way to deal with things, but at least that worked. Other than that, I haven’t heard of anyone using paper in a long time! My mother needed to send me some money and I ended up talking her through eTransfers rather than have to cash a piece of paper.

                3. Unicorn on Stilts*

                  I work for a local government. We’ve been told (rightly or wrongly) that having any work information on our personal phones means that our phone could be considered a work phone and therefore is FOIA-able. I’m not willing to chance it.

      2. Miss Woodhouse*

        My workplace has about 2000+ employees and will not give out paper checks. You either do DD into a bank account or you have your pay deposited on a card provided by the cash card vendor we contract with. There are no exceptions. Don’t have a bank account? Cash card. Don’t want to use the cash card? Direct deposit. That’s it. Two options.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pentapus*

          I don’t know what would happen if you insisted, but my 4000+ person company absolutely sends you a cheque for the first month, because even though you put your banking info in the system on day 1, it still takes weeks to process.

          Reply ↓
    4. Charlotte Lucas*

      I work for state government. If you need a smartphone, one is supplied to you. (For various reasons, personal devices should never be used for work purposes.) I am not sure about pay, but I did work somewhere that had a similar policy about direct deposit or debit cards. However, they were capable of cutting paper checks, as everyone’s first check was paper.

      I live in a state with a fairly large Amish population in some parts, so if he has religious objections, I could see making an accommodation, but I think he’ll have to be paid however they usually pay people. (I mean, paper checks are pretty modern in the grand scheme of things, and still traceable, if that’s his concern.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Not counter cultural*

        Is a smartphone supplied even just for app verification and the like, not when required for work phone calls, etc., outside of business hours.

        Reply ↓
        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          It’s only supplied if you need it for phone use. I don’t have one (or want one!), but I have access to my phone through Teams on my computer.

          Everyone gets a separate authentication device that is only for that purpose. Much more secure than a random smartphone.

          Reply ↓
      2. ThatGirl*

        Hilariously, I know a lot of Amish folks do use computers/smartphones if it’s for business use. Just not for their personal lives. Not totally sure about banking but I have never heard of an objection to direct deposit.

        (source: me, raised Mennonite, have worked with Amish folks.)

        Reply ↓
    5. Not counter cultural*

      Added note: friend told me none of this came up in interview process. It became an issue on guy’s first day or work.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mad Harry Crewe*

        Sure, I wouldn’t have raised it either. I started a job with MFA requirements and didn’t have a smartphone. I certainly didn’t say anything in the interview. They got me a yubikey and it wasn’t a problem at all.

        Reply ↓
      2. I should really pick a name*

        It’s on the company to say a cell phone is needed. There’s no reason for the applicant to bring it up.

        Reply ↓
    6. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      They could get their paycheques on a preloaded Debit card, and the MFA that I’ve had to use have had a “phone call” option instead of a code or a push notification.

      Echo that this person would have no leverage and it would take little to make them more trouble than they’re worth to the company.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not counter cultural*

        Friend’s coworker was offered choice of debit card or direct deposit. He didn’t want either. I’m assuming he went with debit card, if he was against direct deposit, but I’m not sure.

        Reply ↓
      2. amoeba*

        I mean, if they don’t even own a flip phone, a phone call probably wouldn’t work either, unless he was full time WFH with a landline or an office landline… (which would pose its own problems as those are typically shared and thus not secure, right?)

        Reply ↓
    7. Blue Pen*

      I think paper paychecks could be accommodated in my workplace (?), but if they’re working from home, there’s a lot of security authentication they’d need a smartphone for.

      Reply ↓
      1. Philosophia*

        Nope. I work hybrid for a unit with pretty high security requirements, and all I need are the various programs installed on my employer-supplied laptop and a keyfob. I haven’t lost either yet —insert rite of aversion here—and I’ve been commuting with the keyfob since the Before Times.

        Reply ↓
    8. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

      I’m about to boot the last paper check person off of them and make him get a pay card. (We provide it, if he doesn’t want to do direct deposit to his bank account.) I don’t know why this is still an issue- everyone else who got paper checks switched to direct deposit to their own bank account or got a pay card, so I don’t know what his deal is. Fortunately, we can make our own paper checks in house (that wasn’t a thing at our last payroll company and they charged us a stupid amount per week to cut live checks and overnight them to us) so that isn’t the issue- but it’s literally an extra step during payroll that shouldn’t even be happening in today’s day and age. If someone needs one temporarily because of bank issues, I’m fine doing that, but it’s getting silly cutting 1 check a week.

      Reply ↓
        1. RagingADHD*

          This is not quite right. Poor credit by itself is irrelevant for opening a bank account, particularly if you show up with money or a verifiable check in hand to deposit. They aren’t extending credit.

          However, a history of bouncing checks (which is not quite the same as bad credit, though often related to similar life situations) may make it difficult to get a checking account. You could probably still get a savings account with that initial deposit if you shop around, such as at credit unions.

          Reply ↓
        2. Magpie*

          Banks aren’t typically looking at credit scores when deciding whether to open a new account for someone. The most common reason for not having access to a bank account is not having a photo id or proof of citizenship, but someone with a job that prefers direct deposit likely needs those documents in order to get the job in the first place so that wouldn’t be an impediment to getting a bank account.

          Reply ↓
            1. Magpie*

              Maybe Navy Federal is an outlier, or maybe they weren’t clear about the reason for your denial. Banks DO have a system called ChexSystems that they check when deciding whether to offer a bank account. This system shows a person’s banking history and whether they have a history or overdrafts, fraud, or unpaid fees. Maybe this check is what you’re thinking of that led to your denial. But this system is looking at banking history, not credit scores.

              Reply ↓
              1. Flash*

                ChexSystems is absolutely a credit reporting company. I’ve applied to get a checking account at a bank that uses them before- they ran a hard credit check and then denied me because our credit systems in the US are a patchwork mess that don’t work if you’ve done so much as change your name once in your life for any reason.

                Reply ↓
                1. JustaTech*

                  Or if you’ve ever been the victim of identity theft.

                  This is an ongoing problem for my husband, but it only ever seems to come up at Credit Unions – not regular banks. But it’s still a really frustrating PITA for him and a lot of things end up in my name only because of it.

            2. Anon for this*

              Bank’s and Credit Unions do look at scoring models AND Chex Systems history when opening accounts. Low scores and/or poor Chex Systems history can limit what type of account can be opened and what type of transaction activity you can have.

              For example where I work we have a “Cash Only” savings account. You can get a direct deposit, and you can deposit and withdraw cash. But you can’t deposit checks, unless for some reason it was required by law, and can’t have an ATM or Debit card. It’s really like the last of last chance account types.

              Reply ↓
              1. RagingADHD*

                Yes, it affects stuff like overdraft protection and the willingness of banks to allow writing or cashing actual checks, because that requires them to float the difference.

                But it’s not a 1:1 “bad credit = impossible to get any kind of bank account” situation.

                Reply ↓
        3. Not counter cultural*

          The guy mentioned in the OP appears to have tin foil hat reasons for not wanting direct deposit, from how my friend has described him. She said he almost gives off Unabomber vibes.

          Reply ↓
            1. PurpleShark*

              Wage garnishing occurred to me as well. Although I am not certain if this happens through the employer or the bank so I did not mention it.

              Reply ↓
    9. Lizabeth*

      My other half gets paper checks. The thinking by the owner is it forces people to come into the office once a week.

      Reply ↓
      1. NotRealAnonForThis*

        At an OldJob, we simply couldn’t get DD. It was all paper checks.

        Seemed odd, til I realized that they relied on the float…in order to make payroll (they most often couldn’t cover it if they had to do a lump payment…but since people might wait a day or two…they were fine).

        Reply ↓
        1. Bruce*

          The weird thing is that paper checks are subject to all sort of scams, I cringe each time I have to write one now. Maybe a printed corporate check is harder to modify, but I’ve heard of checks being scanned and modified using photo editor software… even with some of the security printing features.

          Reply ↓
    10. Rex Libris*

      We provide yubikeys. Paychecks are direct deposit only, but I don’t know how hardcore we’d be about that if someone had a reasonably legitimate sounding argument for needing a paper check (beyond just being fashionably retro, I mean.)

      Reply ↓
    11. Beth**

      I live in the UK. Paper pay cheques are just not a thing here and haven’t been for decades. Direct deposit is the only option.

      For authentication, my employer would not generally allow us to use personal phones for something like that anyway. Everyone either has a work-supplied phone if needed for other purposes or a cheap-o authenticator token that can’t be used for anything else.

      There was an option at one point to do something with Microsoft authenticator and your personal phone, but it looked like it would be a pain in the backside to deal with if you lost your phone or just upgraded, so I opted out.

      Reply ↓
      1. UKDancer*

        Same. I mean the company pays you into your account. I’ve not worked anywhere that has done paper cheques. Even when I was working retail and catering jobs in the 1990s and 2000s you were paid into your bank account. It was non-negotiable.

        I’ve always had a work issued phone and prefer that. I like to keep my work and personal stuff separate.

        Reply ↓
      2. EllenD*

        UK too and this is my experience. I’ve been working 40 plus years and businesses then were moving everyone to direct deposits in bank account. I worked in shops in late 70s and there was a small bonus if you agreed to a 4 or 5 weekly direct deposit instead of weekly cash in one chain (they paid you 4 weeks in arrears and 1 week in advance, when there was going to be a 5-week gap between payments). Frankly, after a few months, I wanted to get money in the bank account, rather than having to go and deposit it. Nowadays, I don’t think anyone much under 30 uses cash, or would know how to use cheques or deposit them.

        Reply ↓
    12. Fly on the Wall*

      We offer direct deposit or debit card here, no paper checks. I used to dislike having to use my cell phone but I have also had to carry 2 which is more annoying IMO. But not sure what they would do if they did not have one. We have some things that require the ability to send a text, we did not want the authentication to go to someone’s cell phone, what happens if they are let go (which happened) but the sites simply will not allow anything else. I think it that case they would need to provide something company owned to do it.

      We do require hourly office people to use our app for clocking in and out, a computer doesn’t work as the app is location based. Our floor employees thought have access to an onsite punch system.

      Reply ↓
    13. RagingADHD*

      My company allows MFA through a voice call to a cell or landline number, so as long as you have your laptop and a phone, you can authenticate. But they would not issue paper checks, I don’t think.

      Reply ↓
    14. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I work for a hospice and need 2FA for a variety of things including prescribing controlled substances. The 2FA app is on my personal phone only because I didn’t have a work phone yet when they enrolled me in the prescribing program. I am not allowed to have any other work content on my own phone, which is perfectly fine with me. I get the payroll thing – can’t redo a whole system for one person – but they should supply the 2FA device.

      Reply ↓
    15. Pay no attention...*

      I think being able and willing to login to work on a personal device is a reasonable ask — they aren’t using the phone to “work” anymore than I would be working if I used my phone to call in sick. It’s about the same level as requiring staff to get to work and wear work-appropriate clothing. Employers don’t reimburse for clothing, they don’t pay a portion of my car payment/gas/maintenance or public transport, and for just logging in they wouldn’t need to pay for a special phone. IMO.

      For me, paper paycheck for a single person is bananapants crazy but maybe that’s because decades ago I worked for a printing company that printed the blank cheques and know the security features that go into paper paychecks (magnetic ink, micro printing, sequential numbering, etc.) — is this dude thinking someone is whipping out a little checkbook or printing them on a Xerox machine? That’s not how that works. Let him quit over it.

      Reply ↓
      1. 2FA options*

        In many cases it gives the employer the right to delete everything off your phone and if the company is ever sued, all of the contents of your phone would be discoverable for legal proceedings. It’s a terrible idea.

        Also, as a separate issue, there are lots of places where you don’t get reliable cell service, especially in very rural or very urban areas, so having a cell phone as the only authentication option is problematic.

        Reply ↓
        1. amoeba*

          What, just the fact that you use an Authenticator on said phone? I mean, IANAL but that sounds wrong.
          We are, in fact, expressly forbidden from having any company data on the phone, I can’t log in to our webmail portal with it or anything, and I’m in an industry that’s pretty paranoid with data security. But MS Authenticator on a personal device is completely normal here…

          Reply ↓
          1. Flash*

            I work for a bank, and yes, the T&Cs of the company’s proprietary authenticator app inclide the right to wipe your phone. I have a yubikey because it’s typical for my role to have to MFA multiple times a day.

            Reply ↓
            1. Not counter cultural*

              “Company’s proprietary” are the key words in your situation. I daresay most folks aren’t working places that have a company proprietary authenticator apps.

              Using Google or MS Authenticator doesn’t give a company the ability to wipe an employee’s personal phone.

              Reply ↓
          2. Pay no attention...*

            Same. Using Google or MS Authenticator wouldn’t give my employer any ability to wipe my phone. There is an app called MS Intune Company Portal that has that feature — but that’s for if I want to have my work Outlook and Teams accounts on my phone.

            Reply ↓
      2. Flor*

        Thing is, they don’t need to pay for a special phone just for 2FA; other options, like Yubikey, exist and are much cheaper than a smartphone. If someone already has a smartphone then, sure, it’s not unreasonable to ask them to use their personal device with an authenticator app, but I do think it’s excessive to ask them to spend hundreds to buy a phone when the company could pay $80 for a Yubikey.

        Reply ↓
    16. Irish Teacher.*

      Direct deposit is the only way I can be paid. I think that is fairly normal.

      Lack of a smartphone wouldn’t matter in any way. The Department of Education don’t even know what kind of phone I have and I don’t think my principal does either.

      Reply ↓
    17. Tippy*

      We will do paper checks if they request it, either mailed to their home (or whatever they designate) or to be picked up in office, but that latter takes longer.

      For authentication, only certain departments have it/need it and almost everyone uses their personal phone. A few people have company issued phones but it’s considered part of their compensation package so they have to think of that, honestly most of us don’t want to carry around 2 phones so it’s not a big issue.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lisa Simpson*

        In the US, paper checks are required by law in certain states. I remember when I worked in CA, even though I had direct deposit, the law was that I be paid my final paycheck in paper within something like 24 or 48 hours of my last day of work.

        This ended up being ridiculous because my “last day of work” started early and thus ended at 1 pm. I had to sit around for two or three hours waiting for the courier to bring my paper paycheck, which I then couldn’t deposit in my bank until we opened a new bank account in our new city, because I’d already shipped my car ahead and couldn’t reasonably get to a bank branch any other way. I was like, is there ANYTHING I can sign to waive the paper check and get direct deposit, this is wildly inconvenient, and they said no, it’s state law.

        Reply ↓
        1. Tippy*

          My company is in pretty much every state and probably most do DD and yeah they’d probably say the same thing with a final check, since they all come from the home office regardless of whatever state you work in.

          Reply ↓
    18. Chirpy*

      Even retail requires a smartphone for login authentication now. I think my work does a type of debit card if you can’t do direct deposit.

      I’m not sure how you’d get into the payroll system if you didn’t have a personal phone – it has to send a text or email to authenticate, and the store computers can’t access outside emails. I don’t think the managers would want to link their personal accounts to an employee’s, which is the only workaround I can think of.

      Reply ↓
        1. Chirpy*

          Depends on the system, then. I can’t access my work’s payroll system from home – can only be done in the store, even though theoretically the system they use could be set up for remote login. I still need a personal phone to login while I’m at work.

          Reply ↓
    19. basil and thyme*

      I’m *that* guy when it comes to verification. Windows has a verifier app on my computer, and when I need 2FA, I open it (enter its password) and type in the appropriate 6 digit number. Direct deposit I’ll do, however.

      Reply ↓
    20. CubeFarmer*

      Buy the guy a smartphone.

      My organization has us using our personal smartphones for stuff like this and I don’t love it. I love even less the idea of needing to carry around two phones, so I use my own phone. I would prefer some kind of reimbursement for the use of my phone and laptop.

      Reply ↓
    21. Clisby*

      It’s hard to imagine a company issuing paper paychecks these days. I’m also not sure why that would be preferable from the employee’s point of view. That would require him to go to a bank, or at least an ATM, to deposit the check. Direct deposit lets him skip that step and only go to bank/ATM when he actually wants cash. Employee: 0. Company: 1.

      If the company is going to require a 2FA for work reasons, it’s on them to provide the necessary equipment. Employee: 1. Company: 0.

      It’s a tie.

      Reply ↓
      1. Clisby*

        Adding … I might write 6-10 checks a year. At least I remember how (Before retirement I worked entirely remotely for 17-18 years, so I generally was the contact person for building contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc., and still write the odd check as a wedding present for younger family members). I don’t think my husband has written a check in at least 20 years.

        As recently as a few years ago, I was seeing online advice to parents of college students (at the time, my son was still in college) on what they should have taught their children. One was to be sure they knew how to balance a checkbook. I asked my now-28-year-old daughter, who paused, thought, and said, “I don’t remember ever writing a check.”

        Reply ↓
    22. Strive to Excel*

      I’m curious – is this an office job involving computer work? Has he been OK with that? Because I can get not having a smartphone/not wanting to use a personal device for log-ons. But is he tech resistant? Or just resistant to his workplace having info about him?

      Otherwise – our company has a lot of regular seasonal international workers who prefer paper paychecks over direct deposit. Actually, I think they’d prefer cash, but that’s not doable for us. We just do paper paychecks. It works better for them, and it’s much less of a logistical nightmare for us than trying to get 20+ ESL people enrolled in direct deposit when they may or may not have a bank account at all.

      Reply ↓
      1. Not counter cultural*

        Office job with computer. From what I’m told, guy has a computer and internet at home. But he doesn’t like always being reachable, thinks cell phones of any type are a way for the authorities to track you, etc. Sorta tin foil hat stuff. I think the direct deposit thing is related. Doesn’t want anyone mucking around with his bank account or similar. I’ve known others like that before and this was the reasoning they gave.

        Reply ↓
        1. Pentapus*

          I mean, you can track someone’s whereabouts if they have a cell phone. whether or not it’s reasonable to worry about is different, but the main point is not wrong.

          Reply ↓
        2. WellRed*

          With the increase in cyberattacks and data leaks, he’s not totally off the wall to keep his banking information and access locked down.

          Reply ↓
    23. BlueberryGirl*

      I am firmly of the opinion that if my employer wants me to use my personal phone for anything work related, than they need to pay for it. Otherwise, they can get me a yubikey. So, I’m with him on that one. In fact, I demanded one from my employer.

      And we can issue paper checks, so if that’s what he wants, that can be done.

      Of course, I’m also in Alaska and I know several people who refuse to own cellphones at all and don’t trust banks, so this guy doesn’t seem so out of touch to me. He just sounds like a few of my coworkers.

      Reply ↓
      1. Clisby*

        But if they don’t trust banks, what are they doing with their paper checks? I’m 71, and my very earliest jobs did pay with paper checks, but I had to go to a bank to cash/deposit them.

        Reply ↓
      2. Rainy*

        Same. I don’t install Slack/Teams, work email, nothing like that on my personal phone and that includes 2FA apps. An important part of work/life balance for me is separation, and if work applications are on my personal phone, I don’t have separation. I also don’t think it’s my employer’s business where I go or what I do on my off time, so work applications that track my location are a hard pass.

        Reply ↓
    24. I'm A Little Teapot*

      My company – the cell phone would probably be ok for low level staff, but it would cause problems. Paper checks – probably be fine, though definitely would get a raised eyebrow.

      Reply ↓
    25. Always Tired*

      I work for a construction company. I have several dudes with like, nokias, and one it took about 2 months for him to get a bank account for direct deposit. He had to swing by the office every Friday for his check (construction often pays weekly in the US). We are a smaller company so we do more things by hand than a larger org would. The benefit there is when a local credit union had a ransomware attack, we were able to internally ID employees whose deposit went to that bank (via checking routing numbers) and issuing paper checks that week, so they could be cashed or deposited at another institution .

      I wouldn’t want to do it permanently because it is more work, but it isn’t so much more work that we would refuse. But I would also point out that if he’s trying to get around some required withholding, the taxes will alert the government of your new employer, and HR will still action on the withholding order that arrives.

      On the phone front, I agree with others that it is a bit cheap/rude to require employees to use personal devices for required work programs, but my company gives everyone a $50/month phone allowance to be put towards that. So we are paying for the minutes/data we expect you to use. If one of the nokia guys were promoted to the point of needing software access, part of that discussion would be that they need the kind of device that allows them to set up MFA, and we are paying them $50/month to make sure they have it. The flip side is they are on dumb phones because they have little to no technology literacy, so they are missing the skills for the roles that would require a smart phone anyway.

      Reply ↓
    26. Rainy*

      I’m not sure about my new state, but my last state couldn’t pay via paper check. Everything had to be direct deposit, and if you didn’t have a bank account on file they’d put it on one of those pay cards.

      I absolutely won’t put the 2FA apps on my phone, but there’s usually an option to text a code if you tell the setup widget that you don’t have a smartphone. If there weren’t I’d have had to get a fob.

      Reply ↓
    27. Now a senior*

      Back in 1978 the company I worked for was located in a building owned by a bank. We were required to open an account at that bank if we wanted to be paid and it was direct deposit. Luckily the account also came with a credit card, which was great for a person just out of college. It’s hard to believe that 45 years later someone still wants a paper check. (Not that I don’t believe it, just that – – come one people, it is OK to use technology)

      Reply ↓
    28. NotmyUsualName*

      We would provide a yubikey and the employee has to go to AP to get his paycheck however it is almost a week later than direct deposit.

      Reply ↓
  2. Hello there!*

    I know this is a silly question to ask given my project. I’m looking to start a business (this is years in not just on a whim). I need someone I can throw questions to for general business questions; inventory ideas, tax inquiries; legal questions; marketing; someone’s brain I can pick; licenses needed. I have an accountant and a lawyer but could use a mentor type person. I’m so worried about messing something up or filing the wrong paperwork. I’m good at research and am told I have a solid plan.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you contacted the SBA? What about business schools at nearby universities – seminars, workshops, etc?

      Reply ↓
      1. Glenda*

        In some communities in the US, SCORE — the Service Corps of Retired Executives — might have someone who could mentor you.

        Reply ↓
    2. Funko Pops Day*

      You might see if your community has any “entrepreneurs’ center” or “small business development center” kinds of resources/programs. My employer has worked with one of these for a number of programs that they offer that have supported some specific kinds of mentorship/training that we needed.

      Reply ↓
        1. Office Plant Queen*

          A lot of places that call themselves an incubator are really geared toward startups, where the default goal is to obtain venture capital and grow fast. It’s a pretty specific type of business, so it may not be the best option if someone is looking to build a business that will provide them steady, long-term work. Like I wouldn’t necessarily recommend someone go to an incubator if they wanted to start a bakery, salon, auto shop, or some other business that’s inherently local

          Reply ↓
    3. Tio*

      I appreciate the anxiety, but please realize this is a HUGE timesink to ask of someone you’re not paying. If anyone does volunteer (I kinda think they won’t, but some people like a project) please figure out some kind o way to pay them. I think when people think of this, they think it will be “just a few quick questions” and not realize you end up chewing through hours and hours of a person’s time. A good friend of mine was trying to help someone set up a theater group non profit out o the kindness of his heart and it is ruining his relationship with this person because it’s so much to ask.

      Reply ↓
        1. Tio*

          Oh, no worries! You said mentor type person, which is not usually something you pay people for, so I assumed it would be unpaid.

          For finding a paid person like this, I too recommend a small business group or whatever kind of industry organizations your industry has to meet some people, and let people there know what you’re looking for (and that you’re paying!) Most industry groups are great places to both find meetings with people who can help and resources like that. They probably have a repository of contacts and also training materials somewhere too!

          Reply ↓
    4. Bookworm*

      You might check with your local public library (mine has classes and resources for small businesses) or community college.

      Reply ↓
    5. ErinB*

      In terms of paperwork/filing, I’d recommend an attorney who specializes in small businesses. The cost of their time is worth it to be sure that you’re following the rules and getting it “right” the first time.

      For many of the other things – marketing, bouncing ideas off someone, etc. – look for a start up “incubator” or “hub” in your city. There are several around me that have tons of support, including free seminars on certain topics, roundtable discussions, networking events where you can talk to fellow entrepreneurs, etc. Many of them will also be able to connect you with reasonably-priced services like accountants or attorneys.

      Reply ↓
    6. Data Nerd*

      Can you check your state’s Small Business Administration? Most of their info is about funding and how to write a business plan, but a lot of states have a mentorship program as well. Also, if you have an active Chamber of Commerce in your area, they should have some type of mentorship program for new business owners, even if it’s just something like “hey, Harvey over there started his Widgits business a couple years ago, maybe he has some advice on your inventory.”

      Reply ↓
    8. ThatGirl*

      Another small business owner or a local chamber of commerce, maybe.

      But the problem I see is that these are questions for a wide variety of people – an accountant, a lawyer, a marketer. You say you have an accountant and lawyer, so that’s good. A freelance marketer you could put on retainer, maybe.

      Reply ↓
    9. Ama*

      Hi! Person who started her own business here. I ended up joining a few professional groups in my particular niche early on (I spent a couple of years running it as a side gig before going full time last year) and they had a lot of resources and programming around a lot of this stuff (for example they had a lawyer that specialized in our area come in to talk in general about how to protect your business legally) Two of the groups also have private chat servers so you can network and ask for advice from the group. It definitely helped me develop my business much faster than if I had done it on my own – and might be a good way to find someone who would be willing to help you in the way you are thinking.

      But I also second touching base with the SBA in your area because they will have area specific advice (sales tax, permits needed, etc.)

      Reply ↓
    10. AVP*

      My husband ended up providing these services as a marketing guy / content / designer. You just need to find someone you trust and start paying them hourly for consulting calls! Like any coaching, hiring the right person is key and you’ll need to make sure you get along personally and like their ideas. And eventually, you’ll hire a #2 who does a lot of what you suggested.

      The local SBA office or any local business incubator program might help, too. Just don’t listen to anyone on legal q’s except your lawyer, and the same for tax questions from your CPA.

      Reply ↓
    11. Mouse named Anon*

      Do you identify as female? There maybe local Woman’s Small Business groups in your area as a resource.

      Reply ↓
    12. Hillary*

      I’m coming up on two years into my startup journey.

      Folks have already mentioned SCORE can be a good resource, especially their mentor program. Your city/county/region may have entrepreneurship/business development groups – where i live the county has programs plus there are regional foundations across the state. There are also affinity groups that support specific groups – we have one for women, one for people of color, I think one for immigrants, one for software startups, one for med device startups, and so many more.

      I’ve found networking groups to be very helpful. I found a couple groups on LinkedIn that do happy hours once a month, people I’ve met at those groups have pointed me to other groups/connections. Someone I met Monday told me about a mentorship program that I hadn’t heard about before, I’m going to apply. In general people like helping as long as the ask is a reasonably small time commitment. If you’re entering a licensed field there’s probably an owners networking group out there.

      Mistakes are part of running a business and things are always going to go wrong. In general don’t sweat the paperwork. If you’re conscientious enough to worry about getting it wrong you’ll be fine.

      Reply ↓
  3. Carpe Email*

    I have to do a lot of email outreach for my new role, often to new contacts, and I find myself expending a LOT of time reading (and re-re-rereading) the drafts to make sure I didn’t accidentally put the wrong company name, misspell the person’s name, copy the wrong person, the wording is just right, etc. It’s burning way too much of my energy and causing stress, but neither do I want to be making sloppy errors — I need to find a happy medium! Any tips??

    Reply ↓
    3. Angstrom*

      Are you copying and then editing the same message, and forgetting to make some of the changes?
      If so, starting with templates with blank fields would be a good step.

      Reply ↓
      1. Beth*

        I put the fields I need to fill in in bold/highlighted in yellow/red-colored text in my templates, so it’s impossible to miss them. It helps.

        But also, OP, how many fields need to be customized in your templates? Can you replace any of them with more generic language? When you do a lot of emailing, having templates that need minimal editing is a huge part of making it sustainable. Remember that the people you’re sending this to will only see it once–as long as it covers the information they need and sounds friendly, they probably won’t question whether you’re sending the same email to other people.

        Reply ↓
    4. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Can you create templates? Even if it’s for just part of the message. That way, you just write it carefully once, then copy it into your e-mail. If you don’t want to send the exact same thing to everyone, you could do a couple versions so you can change it up. Or have different versions for different types of contacts you’re reaching out to.

      Reply ↓
    5. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

      Mail merge can still help with this, on a really big scale. If it’s a smaller number but most of the emails are the same, try creating an email signature you can customize – something like:

      Dear NAME, I’m Celestina Warbleworth, reaching out to NAME OF BUSINESS to inquire about…

      Reply ↓
      1. MJ*

        I do this but instead of “NAME OF BUSINESS” I put “______” in the email signature wherever I need to fill in info. It’s much easier to spot where I’ve missed putting something if I get interrupted midway through writing the email (a frequent occurrence).

        Reply ↓
        1. PegS*

          I do that but also highlight that area in the template or put it in red text, which makes it even harder to blip past.

          Reply ↓
          1. Dasein9 (he/him)*

            I do that but also make sure I keep the highlighting on my first draft, which makes it easier to double-check.

            Reply ↓
    6. Office Plant Queen*

      Definitely set up email templates! You can put in spots where you change out the particulars and make them stand out in whatever way works best for you – highlighting or changing the color of the text, writing in caps, a series of underscores, etc. This should reduce the mental burden of getting the wording right and making sure that you have all the details filled in.

      As for making sure you have the right details, I would recommend a spreadsheet or something like that, assuming you’ve got some kind of list each day of people to email. This probably isn’t time efficient if you can’t do this work in batches, though. But assuming you can, in one tab, you could have a table with the details – a column each for the company name, the main contact person and their email address, people you need to CC, type of email that needs to be sent, etc. In another tab, use lookups for all of that information based on a column that will have a unique value. The goal of the second tab is to show you all the information for one email you need to send, and only information for that one email. Then copy and paste into your email template as needed!

      Reply ↓
    7. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

      this won’t help with misspelling names, but ChatGPT can proofread text for you.

      Also, I’m not sure how often you work on emails, but is there anyway you can set aside an hour or so a day just to write and edit your emails, so it doesn’t feel like you are working on them all day. Email is exhausting, but setting aside time for it can help. That, and doing whatever you can to stop the email back and forth before it happens.

      Reply ↓
  4. BigLawEx*

    Hl-aroo! I’ve always wanted to ask if you have a photographic memory.

    How do you remember so many relevant links? If you’re around, first I’d like to thank you for your kindness in helping so many of the community with your amazing insights and links.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      No, I don’t have a photographic memory. I probably have a slightly above average memory? But I read a fair portion of the AAM archives during 2020/2021 and then played around with the in-site search bar a lot, so I have a pretty good sense of how it works and can usually find a past letter within a few minutes.

      I started playing around with the search because there would be call-backs referenced in the comments from before I started reading. Sometimes people would post links or post titles, and sometimes they wouldn’t, so I started hunting down the letters so I could get the reference. Then I realized I could post the links/titles and save others the trouble of searching. Probably the only time I’ve lived up to those “be the change you want to see in the world” motivational posters :)

      Reply ↓
      1. BigLawEx*

        OMG I spelled your ‘name’ wrong but I was looking for the answer to this question and someone had called you out that way.

        Thanks so much for what you do, ‘being the change,’ and satisfying this ever niggling curiosity in my brain.

        Reply ↓
    2. allx*

      endorsing this comments. Hlao-roo, your super-timely linking skills are awesome. Thank you from another reader who finds the links helpful.
      (also, in my brain I pronounce your name hill-a-roo, and had to look at the spelling twice after biglawex’s second comment).

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        Ha, I took the name from a Watership Down character and I’ve never heard it pronounced out loud. I think of it as similar to “how” but with an “l” sound, but your guess is as good as mine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        Reply ↓
        1. Wordnerd*

          Jumping in to thank Hlao-roo for their amazing linkage skills and also their username. WD is my favorite book, and Hlao-roo (Pipkin) is easily a top character for me. It gives me such a smile every time I see it <3

          Reply ↓
  5. Name me!*

    Wondering if anyone in the AAM universe has any good advice for a name change (not connected to any other identification changes).

    I’ve always hated my given name. It doesn’t suit me and as a bonus, I hate the diminutive options even more. When I was younger, I lived on the opposite coast for a time and went by a completely different name. It was great! Unfortunately, when I eventually returned to my hometown, my family and friends refused to accept my “new” name and I didn’t feel secure enough to push back at the time. So I reluctantly re-assumed my given name.

    Now I’m almost 40, well established in both my career and my life, and the prospect of changing my name feels super daunting. I started a new job less than a year ago, which obviously would have been the ideal time to start going by a new name – if I had one in mind! But a) I’ve published a book under my given name, b) I have a different surname now that doesn’t work as well with the name I gave myself when I was younger, c) I’m still not sure my family would go along with it, and d) I just kind of worry about the overall perception if I change my name at this point in my life! I know it’s silly, but I feel like it makes me seem flighty – especially since I don’t have a name in mind that feels entirely right to me. What if I want to change it again?

    On the other hand, my name bugs me more and more the older I get. It’s starting to sound like a screwdriver in my ear. I really, really, really want a new one. A diminutive version of either my first or middle name would be ideal since that would at least feel a little more natural, but I can’t find one I like.

    Thoughts on any of this?

    Reply ↓
    1. Time Zone Confusion*

      I have had no luck changing my entire name, and I haven’t pursued it legally, but it’s been very easy to get people in new groups to call me whatever I want. Especially if it’s a logical nickname or middle name. I agree that applying for a new job would have been the perfect time to go as “Suzie (Stephanie) Watkins” and just roll from there. I have many friends who are now committed to a nickname I don’t like, and seem determined to introduce me to others by that name although I’ve asked them not to – sigh – but I get it, it’s really hard once you get it in your head. It helps to carve out spaces where I don’t have to hear it.

      Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      Figure out what feels like you first. Then tell everyone (yourself included) that you’ve spent nearly 40 years trying to make your given name work for you. You think you’ve given it more than enough of a fair shake, and it’s time to just admit it’s not working and spend the rest of your life with something that will make you happy. Then you can just start going by it in person and updating your professional materials.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yeah, I think finding a name that you like is the first step.

        Once you have a new name, maybe you can talk to the friend(s)/family member(s) you think are most likely to be sympathetic and ask “I’m going by [Felicia] now, not [Jessica]. Can you correct people who call me [Jessica] when I’m not around? I would appreciate your help with this!” Adjust the wording so it fits your style, but the main point is that if you enlist their help with making the change in a way that assumes that of course they will be reasonable and call you by your chosen name, most people will live up to your expectation of them and start calling you [Felicia] and correcting people who still call you [Jessica].

        Reply ↓
      2. Honeybadger*

        I had a family member change her first name when she was in her late teens (17-18). She wanted to go by a diminutive of that name. It took a while but we all adapted. Later, she did officially change it and now that she’s older, doesn’t use the diminutive but the full new first name. IMO, it suits her far better than the original. But then, I’m pretty easy going. I had a coworker who changed both first and last names when she was about your age. She went through a divorce and when it came time to decide to return to her birth name or keep her married name, she decided that not only did neither last name suit her any longer but her first name didn’t either. She chose new first and last names. Everyone adapted. I’m sure your family will push back and it’ll be a source of constant correction for years to come but eventually, they will get over it. If they say they can’t remember, they are just being lazy and contrary over a no stakes change. After all, if you are female and you get married then change your last name, they manage to get it right then.

        Reply ↓
    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I think it’s important to accept that your family and friends most likely aren’t going to adopt any new name (I’m assuming this is a “my name is Jessica and I hate being called Jess” situation and not a “my name is Jessica and I’m becoming James” situation). So try to let that part go, and just start using your new name with new people.

      Reply ↓
      1. Name me!*

        You’re correct, although sometimes I do slightly resent the fact that people aren’t expected to respect “not Jessica or Jess, I’m actually going by Felicia now” changes the way they are when there’s a gender shift involved.

        Obviously, for anyone coming out as trans/NB, it IS more imperative to use the new name and immediately stop using the dead name. I just wish “I’m going by a different name because my birth name doesn’t suit me” could be taken similarly seriously.

        (I don’t mean I resent YOU for bringing this up – this has matched my experience exactly. But if my kids ever change their names for ANY reason, I would absolutely respect their choice.)

        Reply ↓
        1. Clisby*

          My paternal grandfather changed his first name, apparently because he had some beef with the family member he’d been named for. People coped.

          Reply ↓
      2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        As someone who’s family at first refused to use my chosen name when I changed it: they can damn well adapt. I pointed out that when I changed my last name upon marriage, nobody had any issues with that, so I expected the same courtesy in this situation too. I only had to return one card sent to my original name marked “name not at this address” before word passed through the family that “nope, she really means it.” Nobody has called me by my original name in fifteen years.

        Reply ↓
        1. Peregrine*

          Yes. This is a situation where you set boundaries and hold to them. Correct them every time they say the wrong name. Then tell them when they use the wrong nane you will walk away/leave/hang up. Then do so. They will have tantrums. Let them. Keep holding your boundaries. Either they will learn or you’ll learn how much respect they really have for you.

          Reply ↓
        2. Mad Harry Crewe*

          Yeah, you have to be aggressive about it. You think it’s easier for queer folks because we have a good reason, but I promise it’s not. Your reason is just as good as anybody’s and you deserve to be called by a name that makes you feel good.

          I changed my name at work at near-40. I spent about a year saying “that’s not my name” every few weeks on calls, where coworkers were distracted or moving too fast. They lived, and I’m much happier.

          Reply ↓
          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            I’m not saying it’s easier for queer/trans folks. I am, in fact, pretty sure it’s not. I’m just saying that it’s really difficult for people who have called you Jess for 40 years to start calling you Felicia, and if it’s not an issue of them literally rejecting your identity, you might have to lower your expectations. I’ve seen someone in my own life go through something very similar (it was dropping a nickname, not changing their given name) and they decided it wasn’t worth a fight with older family members. I mean, if that’s a hill you want to die on, that’s your choice. Just pointing out it’s likely to be very difficult.

            Reply ↓
            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              But it isn’t. Unless the older family members are so far gone with dementia that they couldn’t deal with Jess Smith getting married and becoming Jess Jones, then they can also get used to Jess Smith becoming Felicia Smith. And as frequently as this website addresses “you need to call people what they want to be called,” I’m a little weirded out that you’re insisting that it’s ok for people to not do that.

              Reply ↓
              1. Name me!*

                I get what Rusty means. I think the AAM commentariat is generally united in the opinion that you should call folks what they want to be called (the responses on this thread bear that out, which makes me happy :)), but the world doesn’t necessarily share that opinion.

                Some people feel really, really strongly about sticking with your birth name unless you have a “good reason,” as I discovered when I tried to change it in my twenties. Some parents, especially.

                I believe my parents would adapt to a new name if it accompanied a gender change, in large part because it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to people to keep referring to their son as [myname] when [myname] is (at least in this country) almost always a female name.

                I’m still not sure they’ll accept a new name for me that I choose just for the hell of it (I think part of it is that they’re a little hurt by how vehemently I despise my name, which I get). Perhaps I’m wrong!

                Reply ↓
                1. Ellis Bell*

                  I know people who say that kind of thing: “Oh she’s just being silly about her name, it would be different if it was a gender issue” but then when they are confronted with even more of change, like a queer child, they suddenly forget they need a boys name for someone telling them they’re now a son and it’s all “Oh no this is just a phase, it’s not a real transition, I know my daughter so I told her to stop being dramatic”. It all boils down to not wanting to do something difficult or respect what someone else is saying. I think some people’s first response to a change that is difficult for them to wrap their heads around it, is to convince you that you don’t really want what you say you want. If you agree, or capitulate, they were right! You will have to correct them repeatedly and show that you really do mean what you say. An option might be to viscerally react the way you want to whenever they use the screwdriver name: “Ugh you know I hate that name. Call me Surname, or “You” if you can’t remember my name.”

          2. Name me!*

            Oh, I didn’t mean to imply trans/NB people have it easier! I’m queer myself (though cis) so I have many friends who have gone through this and I get it completely. It’s so much HARDER in so many ways. At least I only hate my name, not my AAB gender!

            It’s just that (in general) I’ve found that people don’t expect a trans person to just stick with a highly gendered name post-transition, whereas people like me have no “good reason” to reject their birth name.

            Reply ↓
        3. Elizabeth West*

          My family took a while to get it right when I decided to go by my middle name, but it helped that my sibling married someone with a nickname that would have left us with the exact same monikers. Now she is (my old name) and I’m (diminutive of middle name).

          If I ever got married and wanted to change my last name, I would just do the entire thing at once and drop my first name entirely. If I like my married name, I can just change my pen name to that, I suppose.

          Reply ↓
    4. tired beau*

      My partner just changed their name at 35, 3 years into the career they’ll be in for at least the next four or five years, if not longer. It has been basically against their parents disproval and most people just not generally understanding, yet they’ve never been happier. (They changed their entire name, and it took some time with getting the paperwork back, but I’d say it took them maybe three months overall to get every document back under their new name (though, this was before the current administration came into power if you’re in the US). I’d expect a longer turn around at the moment, but I’m not sure how much.) It’s not an impossible feat to go from one name to another and I think the fact that you have previously published material under your current name won’t be too difficult for you in the future, especially if you link your material back to your chosen name on your website or LinkedIn or the like! People have name changes all the time for different reasons, no need to feel cornered because you have your current name on your product.

      On the topic of *picking* a new name; I chose mine, personally, in 2013ish after I watched a standup comedian that had a name that just clicked with me. I think it’s easier if you don’t go out into the world thinking you *have* to find the right name right NOW, but instead you have every right to try on *any* name that sounds like it might feel good and choose to use or not use it. I suggest to not officially update your websites and tell HR about your name change until you feel like it is something you feel like you’ll settle on for a while! Typically, I try on names for a while with my close friends/family until I have a sense of how it feels. It took awhile for my current name to feel right for everyone to use it instead of just my friends, but I’m going to change my name legally this year as well!

      All I really, truly say is that you deserve a name that represents YOU. There is no reason to identify with something that doesn’t belong for you. All the love, my friend.

      Reply ↓
      1. Dogwoodblossom*

        I think this is good advice. I’ve got a friend who is trying out a new name right now in our friend group because they know we’ll honor it. But they haven’t gone public with it yet because they’re just testing it. Although it’s been 6 months so far so it seems like maybe it’s sticking?

        If you’ve got some chill friends have them help you try some names on.

        Reply ↓
    5. Rex Libris*

      If you’ve never really publicized your middle name, or don’t have one, you could consider changing/adding a middle name. It would then be an easier and less remarkable leap to just tell people you’ve decided to start going by your middle name. Probably wouldn’t help with family, but might work in the workplace and the rest of the world in general.

      Reply ↓
    6. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

      Use your initials? If your name is Llama Red Pajama, go by L.R. Pajama. Tell people you’re going by L.R. Tell them yes, just the letters L.R. and not Llama or Red. Your family and close friends might not be able to make the adjustment, but new people should. And probably some of the older friends/relatives will adopt it, if you just keep it up.

      Reply ↓
    7. Helmac*

      Just commenting to say that I also hate my given name, and the dislike has grown stronger over the years. I’m now over 50, established in my career, and thinking about changing it. No real diminutives, and I wouldn’t want to use my middle name either. It’s a conundrum, but it’s good to know I’m not the only one who feels like this well into middle age!

      Reply ↓
        1. Name me!*

          Oh don’t worry, I’m reading and responding as I have time! I’m a big believer in “don’t ask for advice if you don’t intend to listen.”

          And thank you :)

          Reply ↓
    8. Evvy*

      Having published a book under your given name should not be a problem in changing your name now — lots of authors have 2 or even 3 names they publish under (pen names, different names by genre, etc) ! Your situation is a little different than someone having a pen name, but I think overall people are pretty used to the concept of publishing under multiple different names.

      Reply ↓
    9. CubeFarmer*

      If it’s that important to you, figure out what name you want, and leaaaaaaaan into it. Change all your contacts. If people are confused say, “My name was Brunilda but I now prefer Diana” and do not budge.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mad Harry Crewe*

        “My name is Diana now”
        “I go by Diana now”
        “Big news! I changed my name, I’m Diana now” (say this with excitement to people you haven’t seen in a while and wouldn’t expect to know)

        You straight up don’t need to bring your old name into it.

        Much like coming out, changing your name is not a one-and-done. You will be informing and reminding about your name for quite a while (probably shorter if you change it legally – I still have to do the “heck which name did I give the dentist’s office” mental shuffle every few months, because it could plausibly be either).

        You can also start small – start with whatever group feels like the easiest sell and expand from there. I started with friends. After a few years, I told family. After many more years I updated medical and work. I still haven’t done a legal change. Build your skills and confidence before taking on the whole world.

        Reply ↓
        1. Another freelancer*

          I second the idea to try the name out on a small scale before doing any legal changes. After a few months you may decide the new name doesn’t quite fit.

          Reply ↓
    10. Lily Rowan*

      I know someone who is changing his whole name as part of a break from his birth family, so that part doesn’t apply, but I can barely remember what his name used to be. So it’s not necessarily as big a deal for other people as it will be for you!

      Reply ↓
      1. Lily Rowan*

        And to Mad Harry Crewe’s point above, I know he started with a group he expected to be open to the idea, which we totally are.

        Reply ↓
    11. raised by broadcasters*

      This will sound off-topic at first, but bear with me: when I was decorating my apartment, I didn’t intend to live there for very long, and thought putting holes in walls etc would be a waste of time, because then I’d have to fix all of them. At some point, my partner or a friend pointed out how depressing the place was (correct) and that I could liven things up a bit by putting art on the walls, and I said, yeah, but it’s so much WORK and TIME and blah blah blah, and they hit me with, “The time will pass anyways. Shouldn’t it be enjoyable while it lasts, even if you have to put a little work in?”

      So all that to say: The time will pass anyway. You will get older, and the name will continue to annoy you. Find a name you like (as a writer I am CONSTANTLY on behindthename dot com) and do some trial runs! It’s what you deserve!

      Reply ↓
    12. muhbuhbuh*

      Can you make up a name that is a plausible, if unusual, diminutive of your first or middle name? That’s what I go by… my name is essentially a made up nickname for a very common name. There’s at least a few letters in common so people get it if I share my real name. My parents wanted to give me a unique name with the option to have a normal name if I grew up to hate it lol.

      Reply ↓
      1. Name me!*

        Funnily enough, that’s exactly what I’m considering! I had never previously thought about a diminutive of either my former or current last names.

        But one that keeps coming up for me is Ilia/Ilya (not sure which yet). If you squint your eyes and cooperate, it could be a diminutive of my original last name. It sounds good with my new last name, it’s pretty but not overly gendered, and it would be kind of nice to go back to my original name in a way, while preserving my new one.

        (I got divorced a couple of years ago, but I like my married surname better, and I still feel a strong connection to that part of my family – including my former spouse – so I’m not too interested in returning to my original name.)

        I was veeeeeeeeery close to using this name this morning with my Starbucks order, lol. Maybe this would be a good one to test drive with close friends.

        Reply ↓
    13. 1,000 Snails in a Lady Skin*

      Just want to say that we had an employee a year in who asked to be referred to by a (non-obvious nickname) and it was a non-issue. Think Sarah asked to now be Sadie. Apparently she was too nervous at first to ask for it.
      We all switched to calling her the preferred name and IT even updated her work email address to be sadie@company

      I also had a coworker who I met when he was named Mark Smith, we worked together for several years and stayed in touch, and then I referred him for a new job at my company and he went by Marty Jones. I definitely did a double take a few times, but never had an issue.

      So just want to reassure that it’s possible you’re over thinking and many many people will adjust to a new name pretty quickly.

      Reply ↓
    14. Hyaline*

      Most people I know who ended up changing their names started with “I go by” switches first–and for a few, they didn’t even pursue formal name change. “Going by” the name is enough for them. The advantage to that approach was they started with a few friends or in a new workplace or at bowling league or whatever so were able to give it a trial go and build up–as they grew comfortable being called by the new name, they gained the confidence to begin asking for it in other places. Some of them still go by their old name with family, but it grates them less because it’s become like a pet name that only VERY close people are allowed to use, if that makes sense.

      I would just kind of start approaching this like “when I find a name I want to go by, of course everyone will roll with it” and get that hurdle out of your mind–because the first step to actually doing this is finding a name you like! (I had one friend pick an entirely new name, completely different from her given name, drawing from her family’s ethnic heritage–so maybe broaden your search past “similar to my name” to “meaningful to me”–maybe consider ethnic or national origin, religious tradition, etc.)

      Additions:
      a) Having published several books, I begin to wish I had used a pen name :D So there’s that!
      b) You’re not wedded to that other name, either!
      c) Worry about your family last here–maybe they’ll get it, maybe they’ll never catch on. So? You’ll be going by a name you prefer with everyone else.
      d) Well, yeah, some people will think it’s odd or weird or that you’re being dramatic, but who the heck cares? That’s a them problem. I promise that the vast majority of people in your world will not think twice. You’ve put up with a name you dislike for decades. It’s fair to ditch it.

      Reply ↓
    15. An Australian in London*

      (Not my real names)

      Let’s say I was born “Robert” and that’s what was on my birth certificate, but have been called “Bob” since childhood. That BC flowed into a lot of other important IDs that require a BC… I was also “Robert” on my passport, and therefore also for my bank accounts, utility bills, etc. I was able to make it “Bob” in a few places but that only created more trouble for me when I had to reconcile “Bob” vs “Robert”, like using “Robert” IDs to authenticate a “Bob” issue.

      In my early 40s I’d had enough and started changing my name.

      This was a mighty saga and required precise sequencing so that at each step I had just enough ID in both names to change the next ID to the new name. It’s well worth figuring that out in advance because a delay can set everything back weeks and that can be troublesome.

      I was spared issues of changing what people called me, at least, because everyone only knew me as “Bob”, including my family.

      Agree with all the above – find a name you like first. That’s the most important thing. Plan it out in advance. Once you have BC, passport, and DL, everything else is fairly easy. Banks and government departments are usually the only nuisances at that point.

      Connecting previous professional publications to the new name is probably the least difficult part of all this. Wishing you well in your journey!

      Reply ↓
    16. RagingADHD*

      I think pen names different from your own name are incredibly normal, and age 40 is well and truly old enough to not be controlled by what your family likes or whether other people think you’re flighty. Clearly you are not being flighty about this, since you have been considering it for, what? Fifteen or twenty years? That’s about as far from flighty as you can get.

      I agree with others that you’re going to have to pick something that feels good before moving on, but once you do, the other aspects don’t seem like major obstacles.

      If your family are decent people who care about you, and you tell them why this matters to you, then they will make an effort (even if imperfectly). If they won’t make the effort, that says everything about them and nothing about you.

      Reply ↓
    17. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      I’m trans and have changed my name.

      The interpersonal part was definitely the most complicated. As others have mentioned, setting your boundaries and sticking to them is key. (For instance, I didn’t push back with Dad too much because he had cancer but stuck to my guns with Mom.)

      If your work email is based on your name, you may need to get IT to make your old address automatically forward to your new one.

      The legal part was pretty easy. It varies by state, so you’ll have to do some research. I found it helpful to get 10 “original” copies of the court order because some places, like work and health insurance, claimed to need the original instead of a photocopy. (I can go back to the courthouse and get more, but it requires an in-person visit and costs more.)

      The political part is more grim: if you’re in the US, you might want to think about whether you want to do the legal name change just yet. The current administration’s chaos threatens to disenfranchise voters whose ID does not match the name on their birth certificate.

      Reply ↓
      1. Name me!*

        Yup, that last is definitely a concern for me and I likely won’t be updating my legal name (at least not until things settle down) as a direct result. This would be a social change only.

        Reply ↓
    18. I Like My Name*

      Went to college with a fellow who was a junior. His family all called him by his middle name, but everyone at college called him by his first name. It wasn’t a problem for him and when friends were around his family he just got used to responding to two different names depending on who was calling him.

      So feel free to change your name to whatever you want and do not stress about your family calling you a different name than everyone else.

      Reply ↓
    19. Flower*

      A friend I’ve known for 50 years changed her name in her 40’s. It took me a long time to get used to it since I’ve known her since we were 16, but it makes her happy and that’s all that matters. Go for it!

      Reply ↓
  6. Time Zone Confusion*

    People who work across time zones – how do you shift your schedule? This is my first job at a national org and I was told the hours are 8:30 – 5:30. However, being on the East Coast where most of my coworkers are Pacific, this isn’t working well for me (my boss is actually Central). I get no emails all morning and then a flurry when I’m winding down for the day. However, I don’t know about actually shifting my work hours until 9PM my time. I’m considering shifting to Central time to align with my boss. But how often does it ruin your evening plans to adapt to this schedule? Technically, I’m within my rights to keep working ET if I wanted.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You ought to question your response to the flurry. I used to work 8 time zones east of most of the rest of my colleagues, so anything they sent during the day I often didn’t see until the next morning.

      If they send you an email at 2pm their time (5pm your time), and you respond at 9am the next day, then it’s ready for them when they show up. 18 hours of elapsed clock time, but only 3 hours of business time from their perspective.

      Reply ↓
      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Time Zone Confusion, is the current schedule causing any problems? If no, then feel free take Alton Brown’s Evil Twin’s advice and let it roll. If it is causing issues, you and your boss can do some problem-solving to figure out what to do. Which could involve stuff like reminding your colleagues about your hours, translated into their time zones.

        That being said, do you want to shift your schedule? As someone who doesn’t love mornings, an 8:30 start time wouldn’t be ideal. You could pitch a smaller shift, if you want to, to better align with the times your colleagues are in. But you don’t have to!

        Reply ↓
        1. Time Zone Confusion*

          I would love to start later. I’d love to start at 10 (when my boss starts)! But … I’m not sure I want to commit to working till 7at *minimum* most nights. I’ve never worked that shift before and I can imagine hating it pretty quickly. If anyone has worked it successfully, I’d like to hear how they made it work! Right now I’m also trying to at least check email before I wrap up for bed – so like 9:30 PM my time – but I worry I’m going to burn myself out. I’m new and still trying to do a really good job …

          Reply ↓
          1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

            Oh, well I worked 11-7 or 11-8 in the retail/alcohol world. I made it work.

            1) Wake up at a normal time
            2) Do ALL of your out-of-the-house chores before you go to work. Shopping, post office, whatever – there’s nobody at the grocery store at 8am on a Tuesday.

            Reply ↓
          2. Marion the Librarian*

            I worked 11-7 at a nonprofit that did a lot of events and miss this schedule! Agree with Alton Brown’s Evil Twins advice. I woke up around 7am and did my errands in the morning before work. It was great and I felt better knowing all my life admin work was done before heading into the office, instead of waiting for me when I got home when I was exhausted. It takes a bit to adjust but it worked for me.

            Reply ↓
          3. Buggalugs*

            It really depends what if anything you like to do in the evening. If you’re a stay at home a chill kind of person it won’t matter much. If you like to go out to events, concerts play sports join clubs then it sucks. I used to work until 6:30 but wouldn’t get anywhere until 7 or 7:30pm so after everything would start or I couldn’t actually join a lot of things because of that. It’s really about what you like to do for recreation time.

            Reply ↓
      2. EllenD*

        Support this, as a way of making business more effective. You may want to add an out of office notice reminding people that you work East Coast times.

        Reply ↓
    2. Superhero Girl*

      Could you shift timezones a few days a week instead of permanently? Maybe Mon-Tues you’re CST, and Wed-Fri you’re EST? That would give you more overlap time with your boss, but also give you a little leeway in organizing plans.

      Reply ↓
    3. Generic Name*

      I only shift my schedule if I have an early or late (for me) meeting. My company is across all 4 US time zones, so sometimes I’ll have a 6:30 AM meeting or a 6 PM meeting. Depending on how busy my east coast project is, I might wake up to a dozen emails sent first thing eastern time, and sometimes I’ll get pinged in the evening by a west coast project. In a national org, people understand that colleagues in different time zones might not get their emails until a few hours later or the next day. You were told that the hours are 8:30 to 5:30. Is anyone asking you to be immediately available in the evenings?

      Reply ↓
      1. Time Zone Confusion*

        Nobody’s telling me, but because my job involves a lot of collaboration, I’m kind of twiddling my thumbs in the AM and then missing stuff I could have helped along in the PM. I did initially think “oh, I’ll use the quiet AM hours to catch up / get ahead without being pinged all day” but it’s not working out that well for me.

        Reply ↓
    4. NYWeasel*

      I work in a global role so my stakeholders and direct reports are on all sorts of time zones. Because it’s everyone on many different schedules, it’s a little more top of mind than what you’re describing, but a few things that might help:
      *If feasible, pick one day each week to be a flex day where you schedule your hours on PT vs EST. Your benefit for losing a night is that you can schedule appointments etc that day without needing to use PTO.
      *Talk with your coworkers about the situation and bring it to the surface—do they need you to weigh in immediately or are they good knowing you’ll respond before they get in the office?
      *Change your mindset about the gap. We save the overlap time for shared meetings, use the other time to catch up, so we know if we see something come in there’s no expectation we have to jump on it before the overlap ends. It’s less personal if you say to your colleagues “I handle focus work in the am so please send any time sensitive requests no later than 10am PT, so I will be able to complete before EOD.”
      *Decide (with your boss’ input) what your tolerance is for emergency requests extending your day. “Never” or “Always” are both fairly unsustainable, but maybe you can align that if you have to stay late more than 15 minutes more than once a week, you’ll look at the root causes, and see why it’s happening, and look to identify workarounds when you aren’t on the clock.

      Reply ↓
    5. EngGirl*

      I used to work with a group 6 hours ahead of me, 5 hours ahead of me, and 1 hour behind me. Weirdly I had almost no issues with the 6 and 5 hour differences, I think because we all understood that it wasn’t reasonable to expect me to be available at 4AM my time or for me to expect them to be available at 8PM their time. We found a rhythm that worked for us, did what we could with the hours we had in common and I’d email them in the afternoon and they’d see it and email me in the morning their time so it would be there when I got in.

      Now the group 1 hour behind was constantly an issue. They would inundate us with emails at the end of our day and expect responses and then complain to management that we were ignoring them. I was constantly battling my boss to remind her that my team was not “on call” and that most of these were clearly non urgent issues that had come up much earlier in the day, that just weren’t communicated to us.

      Reply ↓
    6. MJ*

      Can you propose shifting your hours as a limited time trial to your boss? Say you aren’t sure you would like working into your evening so want to try it for (two weeks / a month) and then evaluate how you feel.

      Reply ↓
    7. EngGirl*

      Actually thinking more about this… how long have you been in this role? It sounds new. If you’ve only been there a couple of months I wouldn’t be so hasty to change your schedule. As you get more into projects it might make more sense for you to have your mornings clear to do some of the focus based things without interruption

      Reply ↓
    8. CubeFarmer*

      If it works for your organization, set up an OOO that’s triggered every day at your 5:00pm (or whenever.)

      Were there expectations when you were hired that you would align your working hours with Pacific Time? If not, then I don’t think you need to respond after hours.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wilbur*

        That would drive me crazy. In Teams and Outlook you can set your working hours, so theoretically people shouldn’t schedule meetings during that time. All they need to do is let people know their hours, handle whatever emails they can at the end of their working day, turn off notifications during off shift hours, and shift their focused work to the morning.

        Reply ↓
    9. LaminarFlow*

      I live in EST, and work with teams in every time zone around the world. I mostly interface with PST, India & Israel.

      I keep my Outlook calendar up to date, and I have the blurb of “My normal business hours are X to X, which may be different from your business hours, and blah blah blah”. I also update my Slack status regularly.

      Overall, I have meetings that happen outside of my normal business hours, and I don’t really mind. If the meeting doesn’t require my presence, I ask the organizer to record it for the people who can’t attend. If I am a crucial part of the meeting, I usually just adjust my day or week to reflect 40 hours, which could mean that I start work late one day, have a large chunk of unscheduled time another day, etc. I use those chunks of time for workouts, appointments, running and errands, prepping dinner, etc. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really just means consistent communication with people that I interface with. I also give those people the same grace by suggesting that I record meetings that are outside of their normal working hours, etc.

      Reply ↓
    10. Green Goose*

      I’ve worked at companies across time zones, but at my old-employer, I had to work with a lot of colleagues across ET/CT/MT and PT (my time zone). I honestly think it’s a lot harder for folks in ET, so you have my sympathies. The biggest thing was trying to find virtual times that worked for everyone and it was hard.

      Can you stick with your current time zone and then play it by ear weekly to see if there are certain days you’ll need to work later?
      Are people getting frustrated with you/is it impacting work when people are reaching out at 2:30 PT and not hearing back from you until the next day, or is it more a concern on your end?

      I personally have a lot of responsibilities outside of work (drop off/pick up) so I could potentially do one time zone difference, but even that would be challenging. The way it impacts you really depends on you specifically. If it would be better for your life to start work a bit later, and maybe have the mornings to do what you want before logging on, then maybe that would work. If you have a life situation where you life starts at 5pm ET, then moving your hours back would probably be a drag. A friend of mine who is also PT, works CT and she loves it because she can be done by 3pm PT everyday and then go pick up her kids. So it really depends.

      It you feel like you need to move to your bosses time zone, maybe suggest that you work CT M-Th, but Fri you keep ET hours so that you aren’t working late on a Friday night?

      Reply ↓
    11. HonorBox*

      I wouldn’t shift unless the different time zones was causing an issue. When someone emails you from PT now and it is after 5:30, are there problems? If not, I wouldn’t try to get every response out the door before you leave because you may be rushed and not respond as you would if you weren’t. Also there’s no reason to work longer hours just to make sure someone has the response with a couple hours left in their work day.

      Maybe split your week a bit. Work a day or two from 9:30 to 6:30 instead and see if that helps. And I’d strongly suggest making that change only if it helps you first, and others second.

      Reply ↓
    12. An Australian in London*

      Any time I have done this, the key for me was consistency. Keep the same sleeping hours for weekends and non-working days.

      If you do this, there will be costs for all schedules involving other people and organisations outside work.
      If you don’t do this there will be costs for your sleep schedule.

      I’ve managed to keep UK business hours in Australia for months on end. Family and friends came to accept that I was not available before 3pm under any circumstances. It made medical appointments difficult.

      Reply ↓
    13. Twenty Points for the Copier*

      I’m in a very similar situation. I work on the east coast and the rest of my team is on the west coast. I don’t have set hours so I tend to work from about 10-7. Late for ET but early for PT. I find it gives me a reasonably normal schedule and a good deal of overlap with the people I work with.

      I tend to only have evening plans 1-2 days a week and just stop earlier those days. The day before or after I may work later to make up for it. I’m 1099 so I have a very high level of freedom to set my schedule but I’ve found 9:30-6:30 or 10-7 provide a good balance (sometimes it’s a full 9 hours worked; other times it’s running an errand or two during the day). This schedule also lets me get in a morning workout without getting up too early.

      Reply ↓
    14. Beth*

      I’m in PT, my boss is in ET, and my team and customers cover the entire range in between. I skew my hours a little earlier than standard PT by preference–I like to be done at closer to 4 than 5! But I still have the opposite pattern than you, with a flurry of activity to catch up on when I get in, and a couple hours of quiet in the afternoon.

      In theory, if we message someone outside their work hours, they reply when they’re next in. In your case, this would mean you don’t have to handle the whole afternoon flurry while it’s happening–of course you’ll be available while you’re in office, but whatever isn’t handled by 5:30 ET can be addressed during your quiet morning hours the following day. Functionally, we consider any reply within 24 hours of receiving an email to be a ‘same day’ reply.

      In practice, I’ve noticed that my ET coworkers are more likely to reply outside their work hours than I am. In the hours when they’re at work and I’m not, I’m asleep, so I don’t see it until I come in. But the skew is on the evening on their end, when they’re awake and see notifications from emails and Teams messages–it takes willpower to ignore that until morning, or some fancy notification settings to turn them off after a certain hour.

      I do think skewing your hours later would make it hard to have evening plans. I love skewing my work early because it gives me more time in the evenings–I can go to the grocery store, cook dinner, eat, do dishes, and still be on time to book club or movie night. Skewing later would have the opposite impact. If you’re worried about losing evening time, I wouldn’t volunteer for that.

      Reply ↓
    15. Spacewoman Spiff*

      I used to work on new york time while most of my team was based in London, and I loved it. Mornings were for meetings and anything I needed to work on with them. Afternoons were for project work, which I could often pass off to my London-based teammates at the end of my day, to pick up at the start of their following day. Eventually I did start doing more work with teams in my location, so that shifted–but that also involved working with some associates in India, so still thinking a lot about how we handed work back and forth at the ends of our days. We were an international org, so thinking about how to collaborate across time zones was a pretty standard conversation there. If that’s not a conversation at your workplace, I wonder if it’s one you could raise with your team? If your Pacific colleagues haven’t had an East Coast-based team member before, it might require some adjustments from everyone in terms of scheduling meetings in a narrower window and being thoughtful in how you hand work back and forth…for you to shift to working till 9PM doesn’t feel to me like the only or best solution.

      Reply ↓
    16. JustCuz*

      My work colleagues are like 5 hours ahead. It is assumed that anything sent after like 11 is going to be answered in the next day. That is likely your culture too. Just look at it like they sent an email at 5pm. Sometimes we all do send emails at 5pm. And we do it with the understanding that it will not be gotten to until the next business day. If there have been no problems, there really isn’t a reason to change it.

      Reply ↓
  7. FaintlyMacabre*

    How would you phrase a question about keystroke trackers in an interview? I may be applying to a place that I have heard possibly uses them. I suspect the use of the trackers would be a deal breaker for me.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I might start by asking about more general topics like data security so it’s not coming at them out of left field.

      Reply ↓
    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      What’s the context? If, for example, they use them to “prove” remote workers are actually working, you might ask how productivity is measured.

      Reply ↓
    4. Qwerty*

      I’d wait until I had an offer. Then ask the recruiter about the practice, citing Glassdoor or whereever you heard about it from.

      I can’t think of a way for it to not sound weird in an interview, plus your interviewer might not know the answer. If they are using them, it makes a bigger impact when someone declines an offer (because the company definitely wanted that person) than if they withdraw from the process.

      Reply ↓
      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        I think it is a fair question to ask, but not right out of the gate. I would tell them that during your research on the company and the organizational culture you came across several posts citing that the company uses monitoring devices to track productivity of remote workers and you would like to understand if this is true and if so, how do they use the information and why do they feel such tracking is necessary.

        I’m not personally and morally opposed to the idea of monitoring, but I do think it is a red flag that managers don’t trust their employees and/or aren’t connected enough to their teams and the work that they need such things.

        Reply ↓
    5. Nesprin*

      Assuming you’ve got options and don’t need this job, I’d just ask as part of the “How do you manage people?” set of questions.

      e.g. “I did note that glassdoor reported that you use monitoring software- is that correct and how do you use it?”

      Reply ↓
  8. Frustrated Francine*

    Hello, wanting to vent/ask if I’m right to feel annoyed.

    I’m a Canadian federal government employee. Our team is currently in the office 1 day per week and will very shortly be going to 2 days per week. This is supposedly for purposes of collaboration although our work is very individual. I can count on one hand the number of times in the past year I’ve collaborated with someone from my team.

    We have hubs scattered throughout the city (one of them literally around the corner from my house) yet we are told we must go to our actual office for those 2 days.

    At the same time, our supervisor is leaving and our new supervisor will be fully remote. So while we are doubling our in-office time (for “collaboration”), our supervisor will never be in office.

    I don’t have an issue with her working from home. It’s more the inconsistency of our return to office for one purpose which is not very practical for our work and of which our supervisor will not be a part of.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alice*

      Nonsensical.
      I would 100% feel annoyed.
      Now, it might be better for your mental health if you can find a way to not feel annoyed — but TBH I haven’t yet managed that about my own similar situation, so, good luck.

      Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think you’re right to be annoyed, especially with the supervisor being fully remote. (Seems to me that they should definitely be in the office as much for “collaboration.”)

      I also have work that is often fairly individual, but it often touches a lot of areas outside my manager’s purview), and required in-office days often cause me to get less done. (I actually am hybrid but often try to choose my days based on who will and won’t be in the office.)

      Reply ↓
    4. Hiring Mgr*

      Is there a chance that the new supervisor will realize what you are saying and cut back on your in office days?

      Reply ↓
    5. Anon Just for This*

      Another public servant here, but not for the feds.

      I’d be annoyed, too. It’s clearly about optics. The rationales for going back in-person have always been flimsy, at best. Particularly when they’re reducing their footprint, so there aren’t even enough desks for everyone. And I’ve never seen any data from my organization evaluating the move.

      I haven’t ever actually said this to any executives, but forcing people back into a building to improve collaboration implies that we weren’t doing a good enough job collaborating when we were all remote. Is that really what they’re saying to us? Because that’s kinda insulting.

      Reply ↓
      1. A Significant Tree*

        *cries in US federal employee*

        My only advice is to try to stop making it make sense. It just doesn’t make sense for distributed teams. You and I and all the ground level people know that. :-( It’s infuriating to hear that this is to make us more “productive” and “collaborate” which is the opposite of what will happen. (In the US at least, it’s also a bald-faced lie – telework was specifically increased years ago to make fed employment more attractive and increase retention and my agency for one really leaned into distributed teams and remote workforce, but when your gov’t doesn’t want to actually retain people…)

        Long way to say you’re absolutely right to feel this is annoying and poorly executed.

        Reply ↓
    7. Qwerty*

      Is the new supervisor local or in a different location? If she’s local and not coming in, that would be more frustrating than if it is an actual logistical issue. I think it is going to take a while for everyone to end up back in the same locations.

      But yeah, feeling annoyed at this is natural. (And we also get to feel annoyed at things even they make sense or aren’t objectively wrong) What I’ve seen more helpful for some friends dealing with RTO is directing their annoyance at how Remote/WFH was rolled out a few years ago than at the RTO today – basically the past five years have been a mess where remote got made permanent too soon before the issues were apparent resulting in whiplash for employees.

      Reply ↓
    8. Also a Canadian public servant*

      I was in a similar situation of wondering if it was just me or if I was right to be annoyed just before my team was ordered back into the office 3 days per week. The answer now a couple of years later is a resounding yes, I was right to be annoyed. I was always remote from the rest of my team and the extra tools we got during the pandemic made it so much easier for me to collaborate with them than before. My office is in a rural location that houses employees from all the ministries together, and there are just a handful of other employees from my ministry also there, none of whom I need to work. We were told we needed to be in the office because “those water cooler conversations are so important”. We don’t have a water cooler. The people from the other ministries never talk to us or come into our corner. Most of the others from my ministry work in the field 2-3 days per week and management decided that they could count their field days as office days, so they are hardly ever there. There is one other person besides me who works a desk job whose days overlap with mine. She is so strange in how she interacts that it has thrown neurodivergent me way off balance. I finally brought it up with my therapist because I was worried that maybe I had done something wrong or forgotten how to be social during the pandemic, and we decided that it was her not me and that it would be better if I didn’t interact with her beyond the usual niceties.
      So now I am driving 40 min 3 days a week to sit in a depressing maze of a cube farm, having no in-person interactions about anything work related while I’m there, still having exclusively online meetings with my team, just to drive 40 min home again. It’s nonsense!

      Reply ↓
    9. Quinalla*

      You are right to be annoyed.

      I’m permanently remote and I DO see the value in getting together in person for some things. I have yet to actually witness a company handle RTO/hybrid in a way that actually make sense. Friends and acquaintances are going back on different days from their team, or their team sits on different floors, or their team is all over the country so they are all on zoom/teams all day in the office instead of at home. Or their work is 95% independent, so going in even once or twice a week like you are is overkill, could be once a month/quarter. Or it’s RTO for most employees, but a few are allowed to WFH for “reasons” and it is often the lower level employees coming in and higher ups WFH.

      Do you think your supervisor might let you go to the closer office or even stay at 1 day a week or both? Would your supervisor come in once a quarter/month so you as a team could actually meet in person together to do some things that are better that way?

      Reply ↓
  9. Mature Student soon?*

    I posted a few weeks ago asking for peoples stories about goin back to school – thanks everyone for sharing, I’m going ahead and enrolling! I’ve picked a course I’m passionate about and work are happy for me to drop my hours down. I know the tradeoffs are a 20% paycut and a long commute to the campus, but I’m feeling absolutely terrified! Is the fear normal or is there something my brain hasn’t considered yet…?

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Change is scary! But you want this, work’s supportive (and if that changes, you can look into alternatives), and I bet starting your classes and meeting your classmates will help. You’ve got this!

      Reply ↓
    2. Kesnit*

      I went to law school after 10 years of being in the workforce. It took some getting used to, but I got used to it pretty quick. It was also nice not to have to dress up every day and being able to sleep in sometimes.

      I do feel like my study habits were better in law school than they were in undergrad.

      Reply ↓
    3. The teapots are on fire*

      The fear is 100% normal. I did it, too, to dip my toes in the water for the prereqs for med school. It worked out fine!

      Reply ↓
    4. Pam Adams*

      the fear is normal- it’s a big change!
      As an advisor who sees lots of older/returning students, the being scared is normal, but so is becoming a top student.

      Reply ↓
    5. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Yes, the fear is normal! It just means that you care. There may be some bumps in the road, but that’s OK.

      Reply ↓
    7. An Australian in London*

      The fear is definitely normal.

      Fear of change.
      Fear of failure.
      Fear of what if it isn’t worth it, or I don’t like the course, or I can’t sustain this long term, or have nothing to show for it after.
      Fear of what if I’m a far worse student than everyone else in my course.
      Fear of what if I am too old and out of touch for this.

      What’s the quote about bravery? It’s not about never feeling fear, but about not letting that get in the way of what has to be done.

      Go to your course and be afraid. You’ll find out pretty quickly you can still learn while you’re afraid. Then one day you’ll notice you haven’t been afraid for a while.

      Source: I did two Masters at the same time, evenings and weekends, while in full-time self-employed freelancing. Took me 5.5 years and I finished 9 years ago. Eyeing another Masters now actually. :)

      Reply ↓
    8. BlueberryGirl*

      Yes. I work with adult learners and all of them say that going back was really really hard. It is really really hard. You’re doing a really brave thing. So, for whatever it is worth, good luck!

      Don’t let your anxiety stand in the way of getting something you want.

      Reply ↓
    9. Rainy*

      I went back to school to finish my undergrad when I was 26, eight years out from my first try at university. I had a really great experience and am still happy I did it, so I’m glad you are too, and hope you find it as amazing as I did.

      The fear is normal. It’s a big change. I’d be sort of worried if you weren’t afraid. :) I was terrified–I quit my job to go back to school full time, and I had no idea how any of it was going to work out.

      Reply ↓
  10. NYWeasel*

    I applied to an internal position that closed on the 2nd and have been impatiently awaiting word on my status since then but going into R1 interviews next week!!! Happy news to start the weekend!

    Reply ↓
    1. Tio*

      I like that idea, but given how many trolls have shown up lately, it might be a bigger ask now or Alison to moderate the comments on something that racks up a lot of comments like that

      Although tbh I kind of prefer getting an answer from someone professional like Alison and then seeing in the comments what the others say, so I never missed the ask the readers posts that much

      Reply ↓
    4. Balanceofthemis*

      I’d be really interested in this, but I could see some derailing just because there are things that might be normal or expected in one industry, but would put a job in another industry in the this job sucks category.

      Reply ↓
  12. Green Goose*

    My company might hire someone as a contractor/vendor for an upcoming event. I’m in my late 30s and worked with this contractor when we were in our early twenties (for 1-2 years) and had a bad working experience with this person (not just personal stuff, this person was unprofessional in ways that impacted mine and others work). They are now in a completely different field and it’s been a long time.
    I don’t particularly want to see this person again based on my experience working with them. Should I mention my experience to the person who is in charge of hiring vendors for the event? I’m friendly with this event coordinator. But is it too petty? Or just let it go and avoid my former coworker at the event.

    If you want a specific examples of something this coworker did: We were both shift supervisors, and she supervised the shift before mine. My work could not be done unless her work had been completed. She became angry with our supervisors when they did not hire her friend, so to “get revenge” she messed up all the inventory and paperwork during her shift, which didn’t really “get” our bosses, but it resulted in a really long, stressful day for me. I was super annoyed with her but when I tried to talk to her about it, she lied to my face about messing up the orders. And then went out with other coworkers later and laughed about it.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      If the hiring’s not a done deal and they’re weighing other candidates, I think it’s worth mentioning, yeah. Definitely provide the caveat that it was years ago and you hope they’ve improved since then, but you feel like you’d be remiss if you didn’t flag it as a concern.

      Reply ↓
    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      This person disrupts work to get vengeance for perceived personal slights. It’s not petty to bring that up, as long as you can give factual examples.

      Reply ↓
    3. Glazed Donut*

      I might be in the minority here – but I’d avoid them and otherwise let it go. I did a few stupid things in my early 20s at work (things I’d be mortified if someone brought up now, but I thought I was in the right/sticking it to the man then). I’ve learned so much since then, and have so much to show for my professionalism now. I reflect on my early 20s self and forgive that person’s mistakes but I’d be pretty upset (yet understanding) if someone used it to cancel a current work project. I’m completely different!
      Is there a way you could talk to someone who has worked with this person more recently to get a feel for if they’ve changed?

      Reply ↓
      1. Green Goose*

        I don’t think I could reach out to any professional contacts, and that would probably be weird since I’m not the one in charge of hiring for this event. We’re in different fields now, I’m in a corporate environment and she does something like yoga teacher (not the actual job) and the coordinator would be hiring her to teach yoga at our company for an event.

        Reply ↓
    4. Fly on the Wall*

      I would say it depends on how long ago. I am not the same work individual I was 10 years ago, and no where near what I was at 20. You live, you learn, you grow.

      Reply ↓
    5. HR Exec Popping In*

      This was a long time ago – I’m assuming at least 15 years. If that is the case, don’t say anything and hope that the person has grown and is more professional now (I know I am more professional than I was 15 years ago). BUT, if you have to work with them just be prepared for issues.

      Reply ↓
    6. LaminarFlow*

      If someone came to me with a not super serious (nobody was harassed, threatened, or harmed, and no violence took place) objection over someone they worked with 15-20 years ago, while they were in their early 20s, I would find it very petty. Most people mature and change from their early 20s to their late 30s, and holding a grudge for so long is silly.

      This woman may or may not remember you or the situation, but it happened so long ago. She was crappy to you, and she made your day very long and awful. That sucks! It is also pretty easy to keep the upcoming interactions with her minimal, respectful, and non-committal. If your manager asks you to train her on something and you don’t feel comfortable with it, you could voice your objection in a way that won’t make you seem petty, and won’t damage her unfairly. Something like “I worked with Jane a long time ago, and it wasn’t a positive experience. Please ask someone else to train Jane on this.”

      If Jane is still treating people badly, her behavior will reveal itself in due time, and she will sink her own reputation.

      Reply ↓
      1. Cellbell*

        I think the language would need to be gentler than this. If my employee said that to me, I’d be concerned and want to know more to make sure they feel safe–psychologically and even physically–in the workplace. If OP explains the situation, they looks petty since it was so long ago and relatively minor in the scheme of things. If they demur and say they don’t want to talk about it, I may assume Jane did something truly awful.

        Reply ↓
    7. Hyaline*

      It’s been over 15 years–as there’s a good chance this could be chalked up to “immature and inexperienced” I would let it go, and avoid interacting with the person at the event (it sounds like you won’t be working closely with them?). I’m also assuming from the description that this is not particularly sensitive or ethically challenging work–like this person is being hired as a caterer or florist, not as a grief counselor or a caseworker for abused children–so I’m less worried about potential lingering lack of judgment or poor character affecting the work and harming others in a truly damaging way. I’d trust that the event coordinator is doing due diligence getting (more recent!) references or referrals and if this person gets hired, it’s because they’ve changed/grown up–and if they haven’t, that will eventually bite them in the rear.

      Reply ↓
      1. Green Goose*

        Thank you, Hyaline. This is a good framing for me, the work she will be doing is not ethically challenging. She would be doing something similar to teaching a yoga class for my company, so I can just opt out of the activity. I think I was torn because the things she did (other examples but they seem more petty/gossipy stuff) just showed such a lack of professionalism and good judgement that I thought on one hand it might be relevant but it’s not as if I would work with her regularly and it really was a long time ago. I appreciate your insight.

        Reply ↓
  13. Omelas Employee*

    Help, I’m a temp manager with an extremely toxic staff member, Linda, that I cannot discipline/fire/put on a PIP. Linda is regularly making quiet comments in a nasty tone when I am not present in the room, making petty complaints to HR (someone she didn’t like wasn’t fast enough opening the front door for her), and yesterday got in a coworker’s face and mocked them. I’ve reported all this to my supervisor and documented the hell out of everything, but I still need to protect the rest of my staff from Linda throughout the day.
    What steps can I take to “keep her on the short leash”?

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      Why can’t you discipline her? She sounds awful.

      What can you do? I’d recommend daily check ins where you discuss her behavior and how it affects the team. What does HR say your options are?

      Does she do any actual work?

      Reply ↓
    2. MsM*

      Is the reason you can’t do anything because your authority is only temporary? If so, who do you need to talk to in order to make the case that this problem can’t wait for them to figure out who’s going to be permanently in charge?

      Barring that, anything that happens in front of you: “Linda, stop. That’s incredibly rude/unprofessional.”

      Anything your reports come to you about: “I hear and share your frustration. I promise I’m doing everything I can, so please continue to document everything and keep me in the loop.”

      Anything Linda does that affects other managers and their reports that they subsequently complain to you about: “I really wish I could do more, but my hands are tied. I’d love your help with getting HR/senior management to act on this, though.”

      Anything that happens behind your back or doesn’t directly impact you in some way: Unfortunately, your hands are tied, and there really isn’t much you can do other than ask yourself how long you want to continue even temporarily “managing” at a place that doesn’t allow you to actually manage problem employees.

      Reply ↓
      1. Omelas Employee*

        Unfortunately I cannot do any disciplinary action because I am contracted through a third party agency for this temporary manager position and am not an actual employee of the organization I am temping for.

        HR is really slow to do anything because any disciplinary action too soon after she makes a petty complaint to them could be seen in court as retaliatory.

        Linda’s performance is not good and she is using all the legal language to protect herself “this is a hostile workplace,” etc. The truth is she can’t take feedback but is consistently making mistakes and forgetting things, so when coworkers inevitably point out that something is wrong, she doubles down on the hostile workplace language. Again, I can’t put her on a PIP and HR is afraid of being accused of retaliation.

        Thus, I am stuck managing Linda.

        Reply ↓
        1. MsM*

          Someone needs to point out to HR that at some point, continuing to subject people to Linda is going to prompt group accusations of a hostile workplace environment.

          Reply ↓
    3. Zona the Great*

      Can you empower others to stand up to her? The coworker should have pushed her away with your blessing. If she can’t get in trouble, surely that means others can rise up without fear of getting in trouble.

      Reply ↓
    4. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Assuming you’re correct that you can’t fire or discipline Linda (but check to be sure?), do what you can to make Linda the problem of the person who can do that. You can’t really manage if you don’t have the authority that lets you actually manage. Have you had a clear conversation with your own supervisor about the effect that Linda is having on the rest of the staff and their morale? Do you have a sense of what steps they’re taking to deal with or escalate this? Would it be appropriate to suggest that your reports talk to your supervisor? Can you talk to HR about how they’re handling Linda’s petty complaints? Like, what did HR do about the door complaint? Did they tell her to stop being ridiculous?

      You probably do still need to have conversations with Linda about her behaviour, even if they’re not likely to help much. Just show that you’re trying to do the right thing. Don’t want to give her any chance to say that she was never warned about stuff.

      Also, do you have suggestions for your staff on how they can respond in the moment to Linda being mean? Like if she gets up in someone’s face, they’re more than welcome to just walk away from her. Or deploy a strategic “what an odd thing to say!” in response. Would you encourage them to start making reports to HR about these things?

      Reply ↓
    6. Hyaline*

      To what extent can you literally isolate her? Put her in projects where she’ll fly solo and move space so she isn’t physically near anyone? And then, obvs, shut down anything in the moment and address anything you don’t catch in the act afterwards and hope she has some shred of shame that keeps her closer in line.

      Reply ↓
      1. another academic librarian*

        this was my exact response. I did exactly this with a toxic employee. Took six months because her behavior didn’t change. Keep documenting. Be prepared for complaints about “isolating”her. Spin it in the positive- opportunity to focus and not be distracted. “promotion” to an office.

        Reply ↓
    7. HR Exec Popping In*

      I don’t understand why you can’t put this person on a PIP. If it is because you are temporary then talk to you boss about them putting this person on a PIP. In the mean time, you say you are documenting. Be sure that includes documentation you are sending her. For example, after providing her feedback verbally, send her an email summarizing the discussion. “As we discussed this afternoon, XYZ is unacceptable and not meeting performance expectations. I need to you to do ABC to improve your performance level effective immediately.”

      Reply ↓
  14. Amber Rose*

    A recruiter wants to talk to me about a role at the mart for walls, which I didn’t know until after I agreed to talk about it. I looked over the job description and not only do I not think I’m qualified, I don’t really want to work for a shady company.

    He asked for my resume and email to set up a meeting, and I kind of feel like I don’t want to send my resume for something I didn’t even apply for. Do I ghost or should I say something?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      If you think you might want to work with this recruiter in the future, say something. If you honestly don’t care, ghost.

      Reply ↓
    4. londonedit*

      I wouldn’t ghost, but you’re under no obligation to send them anything. Just say ‘Thanks for the information, but I’m afraid this job isn’t for me’.

      Reply ↓
    5. E*

      If you like the recruiter and are open to other positions, just send a note that you aren’t interested in this but may be interested in positions with X (and list your requirements). I did this, listing very specific requirements (because my job was fine) and ended up with a position thats 90% remote, large pay increase, and better work life balance a few months after they originally reached out about a different position that I wasn’t interested in.

      Reply ↓
    6. Hiring Mgr*

      If you are looking for jobs in general and you want to this recruiter to keep you in mind, I would reply that this one isn’t a fit but to get in touch if he sees jobs that are _____ (whatever you’re looking for)

      Reply ↓
    7. Beth**

      What’s wrong with saying “thanks for sending me this further information. Having read it, I am not interested in the role.”?

      Reply ↓
    8. Rex Libris*

      I just tell the recruiter that it’s not a company you’d consider working for, so you wouldn’t want to take up any more of their time with it.

      Reply ↓
    9. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Don’t ghost. He may have other roles at other companies that would be a better fit for you. “I looked over the job description and it’s not for me, but please keep me in mind for similar roles that come across your desk.” You can say something about how you’d prefer not to work for Wal-Mart, but you don’t have to.

      Reply ↓
    10. HR Exec Popping In*

      Just simply say thanks for thinking of me, but at this time I am not interested in this role with mart for walls.

      Reply ↓
    11. NotRealAnonForThis*

      Its been wild with recruiters lately. Remove the mart of walls, and I’ve had multiple similar situations pop up.

      Perfect opportunity, won’t say where it is or who its with, want me to email my resume before we even discuss the position that I’m not even sure is real….and the answer is “this is a two-way interview and I’ll forward you my resume after we discuss the opportunity”. 50/50 hit rate on that, and the 50% who insist…I simply discontinue the conversation with.

      Next person who tries to sell me on “culture” is going to really open a can of worms, especially if I’ve already stated “I’d need an increase of XX to even consider moving”. I don’t know of a work culture that could convince me to take a 25% pay cut, and that’s typically where that whole conversation goes!

      Reply ↓
    12. Rainy*

      Just let him know you’re not interested. If he pushes after that, block him, because he’s telling you that working with him isn’t going to be constructive. But if you think he’d be useful later, no harm in keeping the contact.

      Reply ↓
  15. FantaRay*

    This might sound like a silly question but just how do you stay focused enough to be hitting 40 hours of work every week?

    For context, I’m in my final year of college and working on my Big Final Project, where my advisor has been telling us we have to work on it for 40 hours a week, and track said 40 hours. It sounds easy enough on paper, but I’ve been really struggling! I’m regularly on campus to work (bcs I’d get even less done at home!) from 10am to 7 or 8pm, but I keep finding that my actual hours worked is always lacking, and I’ve been struggling to get all my tasks actually done. I just can’t seem to sit down and work! I keep getting distracted or my brain just gets stuck while I’m painting the teapots, or I just find myself so bored, even though this is stuff I enjoy doing but it’s so frustrating!
    For what it’s worth, I did a full time internship over the summer where I still had days where I struggled to focus on my work, mainly when I worked from home, but it seemed a little better, and I’m not sure why? It scares me that I’m struggling now because I know it’s the expectation going forward.

    Any advice would be suuuuuper appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. RealityBitez*

      I think the honest answer is many people don’t work solidly for 40 hours a week. I know it might be different for lawyers, doctors, teachers, retail workers, etc, but in many office jobs, there’s a decent amount of downtime. And it’s not just phones—my dad said people used to read the literal newspaper in his office.

      Reply ↓
      1. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

        I’m with RealityBitez on this one – many 40 hour/week roles are built with the assumption that you won’t be actively working for all 40 of those hours. When it comes to working on a Big Project, unless you happen to be a person with exceptional focus, I think it’s reasonable to assume that 40 hours of “work” is going to take longer than 40 hours to achieve.

        You might have better luck spacing out your time (10-12, take a dedicated break, 1-2:30, take a break, 2:45-4:00, break, etc.) than trying to just push through 8 hours straight, if you’re not already doing that.

        Reply ↓
    2. Generic Name*

      Well, literally no one is focused for 40 hours per week. So I wouldn’t fixate on that part. BUT you say you can’t focus on anything and you are struggling to get your tasks done. Have you been assessed or diagnosed for ADHD? That can cause some of the symptoms you describe. But honestly, going from college to a desk job is a really difficult transition, ADHD/attention stuff or not. In college classes are about an hour and you are constantly walking from place to place. Unless you have a meeting heavy job, being plonked down in front of a computer for 8 hours is a huge shock to the system. I used to leave work at the end of the day absolutely exhausted. Now, 20+ years in, I’ve adjusted.

      Reply ↓
      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        Also, the sort of independent work you’re describing is really difficult for a lot of people! My job has a lot of what the workplace calls “independent work” but I’m not just sitting down at my computer with no structure and pulling work out of thin air. I usually have previous examples that I can start with, and coworkers I can talk to when I get stuck, and often a lot of built-in intermediate deadlines so it’s obvious what I should be working on next.

        The kind of work I’m imagining based on your description is different from most office work in the same way that learning a language solo by self-study is different than learning it in a class with a teacher, or an immersion environment. (And most people find it much more difficult.)

        As for what you can do about it:
        – Redefine what you’re trying to do. If you were going to successfully magically shift from being a full-time student to actively working on your project 40 hours a week, you would probably have done it by now (and would be a particularly exceptional person). Is this the sort of project where thinking about it in the shower, or while taking a walk, or while you’re cooking means that when you actually sit down to work, you will work better and faster? Then I think it’s okay to count the thinking time. (I don’t count that sort of time for my job, but there have definitely been times when my on-the-clock output is better as a result of my off-the-clock musings, and there are days when my on-the-clock output is not so great or I’m writing AAM comments, so I figure it comes out in the wash.)
        – Give yourself as much structure as you can. That might look like deadlines, or detailed to-do lists. If you’re struggling to do work, figure out if it’s because what you’re trying to do isn’t sufficiently well-defined, and if that’s the case, try to give yourself a better definition before expecting yourself to do the work.
        – If part of what you’re struggling with is the physicality of actually sitting down and working for 40 hours — it’s okay to not do that! Get up and walk around at least once an hour (it’s probably better for your health anyway!) Consider tools like the pomodoro method (you can google it, but basically alternate fixed periods of work and break).

        Reply ↓
    3. Cafe au Lait*

      No one works forty hours a week. I probably spend twenty hours working on projects, five hours putting out fires/tracking down information, ten hours covering the front desk because of staffing shortages with the last five doing “professional development” like reading Ask A Manager.

      Reply ↓
    4. Fly on the Wall*

      Also, depending on what your job is you likely we won’t be working on the same thing for the whole work week. In all my jobs there was always variety, that keeps my focused.

      But I do have times where it is a struggle, that is also just life. We aren’t meant to be on all the time either.

      Reply ↓
    5. Hlao-roo*

      Seconding RealityBitez that most people don’t actually work for 40 hours a week. People with jobs make a cup of coffee, chit-chat with coworkers, go to the bathroom, etc. throughout the day. I think step one is to remove the expectation from yourself that you will sit down and churn out work for 40 hours each week.

      For step two, have you tried the Pomodoro method? The Pomodoro method is to set a timer for 25 min. Work for 25 min. When the timer goes off, take a 5 min break (bathroom, stretch, short walk, scroll on your phone, etc.). After 5 min, set the timer for 25 min and start working. If you’re ever in a good flow state when the timer goes off, you can keep working instead of taking a break. Sometimes all you need is a less-daunting goal (work for 25 min right now) than a daunting goal (work for 8 hours today) to get started, and then working is easier after that.

      Also, if you do find the Pomodoro method works for you, count the 25 min of work + 5 min break as 30 min of work for your advisor! This goes back to step one.

      Reply ↓
      1. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

        Agree with all the commenters. Highly recommend the Pomodoro method. Also, you need to loosely define “working.” I’m required to work in an office 40 days a week. They pay me to be available, in the office, 40 hours a week and to meet my deadlines.

        Reply ↓
    6. Time Zone Confusion*

      I think of it as “dedicating 40 hours toward being available to work” not actually working every minute of 40 hours. Your brain needs breaks and downtimes if you’re doing focus work. I put myself in the situation where I could work – I’m in my office, my laptop is open, I’m available – for more or less 40 hours. I take plenty of 10-15 minute breaks in that time plus one afternoon walk while I’m thinking of vaguely work-adjacent things.

      Reply ↓
    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      Sometimes what looks a lot like socializing or taking a break actually is work.

      And sometimes part of work is just… waiting. For example, I had to do some big uploads this morning that use up a lot of data. I literally closed most of my programs and initiated the uploads. Aside from checking on progress that was the only “work” I could do for the better part of an hour.

      Reply ↓
    8. cmdrspacebabe*

      I see ADHD has already been mentioned – whether or not you have a diagnosis, some of the common coping techniques might be a helpful experiment. If you’re just trying to Power Through all 40 hours without much structure, maybe try the Pomodoro Technique:
      – Set a timer (an actual timer that will ring/distract you somehow) for 15-25 minutes. Making it time-limited usually makes it easier to sit down – ‘just 10 more minutes, I can do that much!’
      – After the timer goes off, stop working and take an active break (something involving movement, ideally – go for a walk, do some stretches, run an errand)
      – Come back, set a new timer, repeat, with longer breaks every few sessions

      Reply ↓
      1. cmdrspacebabe*

        Actually I should also second the other comments here that actually Doing Tasks for fully 40 hours a week isn’t realistic for most people, even if they don’t have concentration issues – it’s just not how brains are wired. I’ve learned to count things as ‘work’ that don’t seem like ‘tasks’, because ultimately they do contribute to my performance – stuff like:
        – Reading the news and staying up to date on industry stuff
        – Relationship-building with coworkers (including a reasonable amount of personal chats)
        – Just Thinking About Stuff (i.e., processing new information, making connections with my work, and figuring out how to implement what I come up with)

        Reply ↓
    9. Expectations*

      I had 90+ hours of work to do per week. So if I wanted decent grades and didn’t want to fall behind I put in the time. Maybe the work isn’t interesting enough to hold your attention, in which case maybe you’re majoring in the wrong thing?

      Reply ↓
      1. ThatGirl*

        I can’t think of ANYTHING I like well enough to put in 90 hours a week, that’s bananas. The human brain was not built for that.

        Reply ↓
        1. Tiny Clay Insects*

          Agreed, ThatGirl. The metric for deciding if something is the right major is absolutely NOT “would you happily work 90+ hours a week on it?”

          (That’s 18 hour days if working 5 days a week, or close to 13 hour days if working 7 days a week, for reference.)

          I’ve taught at a university for over a decade. This is not at all the expectation for our students, even our most hard-core engineering majors.

          Reply ↓
      2. ¿Really?*

        This is an odd comment. Self-congratulatory, critical of the OP and containing no actionable advice. OP, don’t take it to heart.

        Reply ↓
    10. HappyMarketer*

      Yeah I agree with the comment that it’s not 40 hours straight. For my job (marketing) there’s also a lot variety to tasks so it’s rare to be working on one thing for hours straight, and then you have meetings, emails etc to deal with.

      I find I can struggle to get myself focused and what helps me is setting a timer for 45 mins, and saying for the next 45 mins I will not check my phone, browse the internet, get coffee etc and then I permit myself a 10 minute break to do those things guilt free. By my second round of 45 mins I start to find it easy.

      But also… sometimes you will be bored. Even in cool jobs! Some work is better than others but accepting that some days will be mind-numbing helps.

      Reply ↓
    12. Qwerty*

      Part of working is non-focused time. Personally I found work to be easier than college or internships.

      Things you aren’t tracking but will be part of office life:
      – Chatting in the break room while getting your morning/afternoon coffee. These team bonding moments make work conversations easier and often veer into work related stuff
      – Meetings! Company All Hands, Department announcements, etc
      – Paperwork, Emails, etc

      Reply ↓
    13. Chirpy*

      In a “real job”, you normally aren’t working on one single thing for 40 hours per week, like you are with this project. You check emails, talk to coworkers, talk to customers, answer the phone, etc. Most people switch between several tasks each day. Even if you are focusing on one project, you take breaks and lunch. You get up from your desk to get stuff off the printer, or leave your work space to go to the stock room to get supplies.

      Humans really aren’t built to do sit still and stare at a glowing box for 8 hours a day, five days a week, or even concentrate deeply on anything for multiple hours at a time. You may have to try a few things to find out what works best for you, but the Pomodoro Method can be really helpful – work for 45 minutes, then take a 5 minute break, or stop and stretch/get some water at the top of the hour, etc. Some people work best if they can block off a 2-3 hour chunk somewhere with no distractions (no phone, email, internet, etc).

      Reply ↓
    14. Danish*

      Along with the people who are saying many office jobs don’t work 40 literal hours of 100% focus, even if you are working most of those hours it’s usually not on the same thing. Working 40 hours on one project with no variation is pretty uncommon, usually you have a little leeway to give up on the teapot painting and worry about brush cleaning for the afternoon, or whatever.

      Reply ↓
    15. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      I’ve never worked 40 hours in a week in my life. I’m not sure I’ve ever worked 20 hours in a week. I do MAYBE 3 hours of work a day. Obviously people in different industries will have vastly different “actual work” hours, but I’m nearly 40 and if I had 40 hours of actual work to do in a week… Well, I simply wouldn’t. No thanks!!

      Reply ↓
    16. Juanita*

      There is good advice in this thread. Another suggestion: Block off chunks of time in 15-60-minute increments on your calendar (Google calendar works well for this) for each task you want to get done that day. Try to avoid chunks that are more than 2 hours by breaking down large tasks into smaller ones, e.g. instead of a 2-hour block to “write two pages,” break it down into 15 minutes for initial desk research/brainstorm, 15-minutes to write a quick outline, 1 hour for writing, and 30 minutes for revisions. As others said, schedule in 15-30 minute breaks throughout the day. Try this for a week, and see if it helps!

      Tools like Motion (usemotion dot com) can help with prioritization, if you are working on multiple projects at once. An online Pomodoro timer can also help, especially with getting started on tricky tasks.

      Reply ↓
    17. LaminarFlow*

      TBH, welcome to the professional world of work!

      There will be ebbs and flows of what your work needs from you (ex: Accountants right now, vs Accountants in the off season) as well as what you will give to your work (ex: a major illness or life event where you can do the minimum at work to fulfill obligations, but nothing beyond that.)

      I can’t help but think your advisor stressed the whole “40 hours of work” because they are preparing you for the professional world. Cool. I wouldn’t tell them this hot tip, but employers are usually pretty pumped when employees can simplify things/take less time to complete a task, with no adverse effects on output quality. Just something to keep in the back of your mind when you are being lectured about 40 hours…blah blah blah, but you have noticed that you need 30.

      Reply ↓
    18. RagingADHD*

      Bear in mind that 40 hours at a traditional office job usually includes stuff like waiting for computer updates or long boot cycles, short bathroom / water breaks, some amount of mundane work like setting up or clearing your desk every day, planning your to-do list, making phone calls, reviewing work done previously when you pick up a task, filling out your timesheet or doing HR-related forms, reading emails and clearing your inbox, etc etc etc.

      Even if you avoid long periods spent on unproductive distractions, you aren’t mentally focused on a single task or project for 40 hours straight.

      If you were “billing” 40 hours of mental time on a single project, you’d expect to spend 50 – 55 “work hours”, at a bare minimum.

      Also, for knowledge work like law, writing, or certain types of consulting, the time you spend outside of the office thinking about / digesting / brainstorming the project is also “billable” time.

      Reply ↓
    19. BlueberryGirl*

      Okay, confession. No one works 40 hours a week on the same thing (or at least, no one I know does.) So, I am in a public services position, which does mean I have to be at the office the hours we are open. Here’s how today is shaping up to show you what I mean.

      So, I get to work at 8am and get ready to open up.

      After that, I worked intensely on a project that takes a lot of focus for about an hour. Then I took a 15 minute break, walked around and straighten up some public areas that always need it. I was asked a few questions, dealt with some minor stuff, and then I came back to my desk and am on AskAManager answering your question.

      At 10am, I have a coffee meeting with a colleague for some brainstorming. I trust my student assistants to handle the front desk while I’m gone. They have my cell number to call me if there’s an emergency, but there are also back up supervisors.

      At 11am, I have another meeting that could have been an email and I am dreading. I will spend it online shopping. It’s on Zoom.

      At 12pm, I have another meeting I actually care about. This one I will need to pay attention to. Generally I hate lunch meetings, but it’s a timezone thing. So, not anyone’s fault that we have to do it at this time. Also, on Zoom.

      From 1pm to 2pm, I’ll be eating lunch. Probably go for a walk and then come back. After that, my afternoon will likely be one hour more of intense project.

      Then I’ll wrap up at about 4:30. Make sure all the procedures are followed to secure the place and shut down for the weekend. I need to make sure all my student assistants have gotten their timesheets in and then I’ll call it a day.

      Some days I work more like 45 hours (because I need to stay late), but some weeks I only work 35 (because I can flex a bit). A big part of my job is being paid to literally just “be here”. There needs to be someone around who manages the day to day stuff involved in running a place and that’s me. Part of what I love about it is that I can leave it at work when I go home.

      Reply ↓
    20. mreasy*

      I do NOT work for 40 solid hours. I do, however, get my work done on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. I straight up cannot use my brain for that much time every day!

      Reply ↓
    21. Tea Monk*

      Work expands to the time you give it. I’d find some tasks and benchmarks to organize myself and not worry so much. I sometimes forget entire parts of my job exist simply because there are so many tasks, and if I worked without a break for 12 hours a day I’d never finish and would be entirely burnt out. I also include drive time so if I drove 2 hours that day it’s fine to only get 6 hours in lol

      Reply ↓
  16. MadFed*

    RTO question—my officemate smells like cigarette smoke! How should I handle it?

    I work in a smallish room split into two cubicles. I absolutely adore my new office mate, but she smokes and both she and her things smell like it. I’m really sensitive to it and the way we’re set up our HVAC mostly blows away from me, but is there another solution? A spray? A small air purifier? (Also I’ll probably get RIFed soon which may solve it I guess, but I’m not ready for huge investments of my money or social capital.)

    It’s not normally that bad, but the other day I could smell it on myself when I got home and freaked out.

    Reply ↓
    2. ruthling*

      if you get along well, maybe ask her if she has any ideas, such as wearing a smoking jacket that she stores away from your desks. A small HEPA and carbon-filtered air purifier can be used, put it between the two of you so the filtered air is blowing in your direction. And maybe ask facilities to check if there’s enough fresh air and exhaust for the space.

      Reply ↓
  17. Cafe au Lait*

    Why is window access such an equity issue in workplaces? My coworker and I have been trying, for over a year, to move our desks to an unused room where there are windows. Currently, we’re across the hall in a windowless space. We’ve got a giant open entrance so we can see the windows from where we’re sitting. We’re also the only two people in the department who are required to be onsite fulltime.

    The windowed room is being used for glorified storage. Years ago student interns would occasionally use the space but it’s had infrequent usage since we’ve returned in person.

    This move wouldn’t cost money (besides the salary of the facility guys who would move us). There are already desks, we’d take our computers. There’d be very little infrastructure upgrading needed.

    I’m so frustrated because the people who keep telling my coworker and I “No” 1) work from home most days, and 2) have windowed offices when they do come into work.

    Reply ↓
    1. Time Zone Confusion*

      Ohhh man you just reminded me that cubes by windows were a huge status thing in my last cubefarm, granted on the basis of seniority plus boss favoritism, and then they became something people realized they could request as an accommodation for I wanna say ADHD and *all hell broke loose.*

      Reply ↓
      1. Cafe au Lait*

        Oh, hey! Maybe that’s how we get “permission” to move over. I could see if my doctor would write a note for accommodations for my depression and ADHD. I know my depression is better when I go outside regularly.

        Reply ↓
      2. WestsideStory*

        If it were me, I’d just do the move after making sure you have good internet/phone connections in the room. Tell them it’s “temporary”. Or try asking for accommodation. Someone I know worked for two years in a windowless basement. The first year, her doctor diagnosed a vitamin D deficiency. The second year, the doctor said she had developed early osteoporosis. (She quit shortly after).
        Sunlight is necessary for health.

        Reply ↓
      1. Cafe au Lait*

        Coworker and I have talked about it. The issue is sometimes we work with confidential student information. The way the windowed room is structured, passerbyers would be able to read the computer screen.

        So, some adjustments need to be made, but again, nothing so egregious that would require a full remodel.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lifelong student*

          You can get a screen to put over your monitor which does not allow anyone to see anything unless they are sitting directly in front of the screen. We used them over 15 years ago- I’m sure they are better now. Or consider that the back of the monitors could be facing the windows.

          Reply ↓
    3. OxfordBlue*

      If I were you I’d be very tempted to simply organise the move myself and let everyone else find a fait accompli when they do come into the office. Is there a way you could make it seem as though some higher authority directed it done because they needed your current room for something else?

      Reply ↓
    4. Qwerty*

      Are they giving any reasons for the No? Is there someone you can escalate to?

      Would any of these people be ok if you used their office on their remote days? I’ve had a couple bosses who let me camp out in their space when not in use but we’ve usually had good relationships

      Reply ↓
      1. Cafe au Lait*

        It’s been escalated as high as it can go, and they keep kicking it downwards because it should be a decision made at a lower level.

        The reason for “No” is that space will be used for something. But the “somethings” are vague and there is no timeline.

        Reply ↓
    5. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I work in healthcare. Our administrative offices are in a section of the building with no windows and we’re there usually 30-40 hours/week. There is one large suite in the building that does have windows. It’s used by the team that monitors ICUs remotely. At night.

      Make it make sense.

      Reply ↓
    6. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

      Wow, I have this same problem. I’m here for the suggestions. Sorry you’re also having to deal with this.

      Reply ↓
  18. AnonyMoose*

    Have an interview with a presentation that essentially involves assessing of the program is meeting needs and suggesting new ideas. Except every idea I can come up with for this kind of work, they are already doing it. Literally already super good at this area of work. *face palm*

    Reply ↓
    1. KitKat*

      Can you do the assessment part (all green checkmarks) and then make the ideas/recommendations around either future expansion of the program, or ways to ensure its long-term stability/sustainability?

      Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      This sounds like a challenge for you, but good on whoever is running the program!

      Are there any public metrics or frameworks for similar programs you can use for guidance, both for internal and external structure of the program? Long-term stability – funding, resources, location, needy population; it never hurts to look at the next five years and say “what are some potential bowling balls that could be thrown our way and what can be do to prepare?” Propose a survey of the population you’re serving; what else could they need that would slot into what you’re doing? Is there anything they should focus on *less* – maybe they’re putting resources into Llama-grooming when your local population really only has hamsters, so it would be worthwhile cross-training all your llama grooming teachers as hamster-care teachers.

      Reply ↓
  19. Anonymous Meerkat*

    I’ve been working at a Very Large Corp for about six years now. I have a job interview on Monday at a tech startup for a job that’s technically a step down from my current one, but which pays about 40% more, assuming I get near the top of the range (I have 20 years of experience where they’re asking for 2, so top of the range is not unrealistic). Extra week of PTO, similar health benefits if not slightly better. I’m not worried about answering the interview questions as I’ve got some good reasons for wanting to move to a step “down” (if the company expands from a team of two, I’d get to be part of building something, and that’s appealing.)

    That said, I am a little concerned about the practicalities in general. With one exception when I was newer to working, I’ve been working for Big Corps, and a startup, even one that’s been going for five years, feels less stable. I’m pointing out to myself that Very Large Corp has been laying off a bunch of people, including people who’ve been there 30 years, so stability’s not what it once was.

    I’d love to hear from people who made the switch from large not-going-anywhere employers to startups. Is it reasonable to ask what portion of their revenue comes from customers vs investors? How secure did you feel? What would you have changed if you could?

    Reply ↓
    1. KitKat*

      I haven’t ever worked in a Very Large Corp but I have worked at tech startups as well as more established small and midsize companies.

      In a start-up interview it would be very reasonable to ask about their current revenue, revenue growth trajectory, and investor funding/planned future rounds. You can ask follow-ups about what investors might be looking at in future rounds (i.e. do they have a growth target, or a revenue vs. spend target, etc.) In general the tech investor world seems to be moving from “growth at any cost” metrics toward “path to profitability” type metrics so you can factor that into your follow-up questions. All super normal topics to cover, although you should keep in mind that their answers will be optimistic (you kind of have to be optimistic to run a startup). Specifically if they’re quite small/early you should also ask about their current runway in terms of months/years.

      Reply ↓
      1. EmF*

        That’s really useful insight – growth at any cost vs path to profitability is a way of framing some thoughts I was having that I didn’t have the words for. Thank you!

        Reply ↓
    2. Hiring Mgr*

      If the startup is paying 40% more than the big company, and the big co is the one that has been having layoffs…which one is really more stable?

      I made a similar transition back in the 2008/9 recession. I felt secure in the new job but there were definitely some initial adjustments.

      Reply ↓
      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        Similar thought! In 2009 my job at big fortune 1000 company felt like a ghost town. Loads of job cuts, slow days, and “outsourcing” to cheap areas of the SW and SE USA.

        I left for a job at a “startup” (was really past that phase at this point, but it was in a growth mode) and not only was it beyond stable (until they did layoffs five years later:-)) but I grew my income and skill set way more than I would have at the fortune 1000. So I left with money in the bank and in my 401K, something that wouldn’t have happened had I stayed at that old job. Would’ve probably stayed broke. Something for OP to consider. Getting laid off in a few years won’t hurt if you accumulate wealth at said new job

        Reply ↓
        1. Anonymous Meerkat*

          100%. I’m also taking into account that employment insurance pays out “percentage of your salary” rather than a set amount where I am, so it’s much nicer to lose a high-paying role than a low-paying one. And yeah, savings. I already live within my means (six years of stable employment at Very Large Corp even on a customer service salary has let me pay off all my debts, so I’m currently pay-as-you-go on everything), so the extra would mostly all get socked away.

          All hypothetical until the job’s actually mine, obviously. I’ve never been in a position where I’m applying for a job while already employed before. It’s nice.

          Reply ↓
      2. Anonymous Meerkat*

        Exactly – stable as in “the company itself will continue to exist,” is what I meant. (I’m not terribly concerned about being laid off – I don’t ruffle any feathers, my KPIs are top of team, and my grand-leadership is speaking with me about growth/mentorships/next steps etc. But I also know that my “congrats, you got the highest possible raise” this year was a whole 1.22%, and that internal role changes can’t come with more than an X percent change, and there are no actual numbers available in terms of the range Y position earns, etc etc etc., so even if I DID grow within the company, I have no way of knowing that my salary would increase commensurately. They won’t even tell me what the range of my current band is.)

        Are you comfortable clarifying what those initial adjustments were? If not, no worries. I already appreciate the answer :)

        Reply ↓
    3. KitKat*

      Adding more as I think of it… you can also ask about their ideal exit (IPO, acquisition, or stay private and grow) and those timelines.

      I think realistically there just IS more risk and less stability at a startup. That can be great if there’s upside in the job itself and you’re comfortable with the possibility (have savings, sanity doesn’t totally ride on job stability). But that’s a call you’ll have to make yourself, most startups do not become unicorns and most startups do not stick around for 20 years. I don’t think you’re going to hear definitive answers in an interview that remove that uncertainty.

      Reply ↓
    4. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

      I made this step from my first to my second job.

      The second company folded after seven months. And you know what? I was still glad I did it. The first one was a toxic nightmare, while the second was pleasant right up until our CEO lost all of our money to a crypto scam. I also grew a lot professionally. I would do it again, in fact, even knowing how it would end up.

      One thing—DO NOT take a freelance role under these circumstances! Payroll employees have more protections if the money runs out.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anonymous Meerkat*

        Crypto scam? Oh noooo.

        I’m a little optimistic in that they’re hiring to increase their customer service team, which indicates that their customer base is also expanding. The thing they’re making is something I saw and went “… ooh, that IS handy for business use,” as opposed to a solution looking for a problem, so that’s also promising.

        Freelance roles are not for me, but I appreciate the warning! Been there, done that, got burned. I do freelance, but it’s on my own terms in a completely different job type, and doing long-term as my sole source of revenue is not something that appeals.

        Reply ↓
    5. EMP*

      As you say, stability doesn’t always come with big companies anymore. I went from a medium but 20+year established tech company to a start up, and in the 5 years I was at the startup, the established company basically folded after a failed acquisition. The startup has had ups and downs since (and I left last year for another 20-ish year medium company) but I wouldn’t say it was “less stable” overall.

      One difference was while the benefits were OK at the start up, some like the 401k program weren’t up to par with bigger companies (i.e., no match for the first 4 years I was there). Depending on your state, you may also be moving to a company small enough to get out of employee protection laws. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me, and if they’re offering 40% more salary it may not matter in your case either, but that’s one thing to consider.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anonymous Meerkat*

        I’m not in the U.S. so employee protection laws aren’t a worry, fortunately, but that’s good advice that I hope will be helpful for any American folks wondering similar things! My current employer does have a pension-match scheme, but they also have a very low maximum ceiling on contributions relative to making the extra money. I’ve got an appointment for next week with a financial advisor to talk about options.

        Reply ↓
    6. JobSecurity*

      Any job can go away at any time. You have to expect that regardless and consider other factors – compensation, benefits, work-life balance, whether the work seems interesting, whether you like the people youll6be working with. etc – whatever is important to you.

      Reply ↓
    7. Qwerty*

      Been at 3 startups. Whenever we’ve hired people from corporations, they usually struggle with culture shock. I’d say 50% manage to coast (while annoying their coworkers), 25% get fired, and 25% do fine.

      1. Never count on a startup being stable. Many follow what I call a headcount roller coaster, where they get funding and hire a bunch of people, burn through the cash, lay off a bunch of people, get more funding and repeat. I’ve also had a startup with a promising future and decent funding call me up and say “we’re closing”, so I always give the advice to plan as if the job will go away tomorrow.

      2. Hours are long! Only one startup had work life balance, because it was in our mission. Even when I join one that brags about how great the balance is, I’m regularly working 50-60 hr weeks. Sometimes I’ve been 80-100hr weeks during crunch time. Crunch time comes often and lasts a long time

      3. Why are they paying 40% over market rate? Is it because they are using HCOL salaries like San Fran or NYC? Or is it because of the hours? How will this affect their burn rate? Will these high salaries result in a layoff because they are throwing money at talent?

      4. How do you like chaos? My ADD makes this a great environment for me because I find corporate slow and my brain wanders off. But I’ve had to fire multiple people who couldn’t adjust to startup life. They wanted to move slow, receive very detailed instructions, complained at our lack of processes. Startup land involves a lot of “figure it out” and building things out of duck tape (figuratively…and sometimes literally)

      Are you saying the team is two people or the company is two people? The smaller the company, the higher the risk and the greater the chaos.

      Remember most startups go under. VCs plan on 1/10 providing a return on their investment.

      Reply ↓
      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        I wrote a comment like the beginning of your comment, but deleted it because the person didn’t ask specifically about this. But since you brought it up, so will I!

        I saw most coworkers from larger companies struggle. They always think there is someone else there to do the unpleasant work. They also were quicker to blame, in environments where placing blame was sort of irrelevant; we just wanted to fix the problems. I also noticed more of a tendency to hide behind paperwork and excessive meetings. I also saw a few cases where they thought they should get a promotion or recognition for pretty standard projects, which caused awkward moments and tense relationships with people who’d never been in a fortune 100 type environment

        I had one coworker from a larger competitor struggle because her job had been higher paid box-clicking and form generation. She talked herself up in the interview, but then struggled, and then it slowly came out that Big Co’s positions were way more simplified/basic compared to our small company. Which is a good thing for people who want to stretch themselves.

        My issue with these situation was that everyone thinks they’re working well, so it created a lot of awkwardness.

        Reply ↓
      2. Hillary*

        Seconding Qwerty’s comment on chaos. I went from having a somewhat defined corporate role to owning everything. I like the change but it’s definitely not for everyone.

        Working for a startup (or smaller business) means wearing many hats. You’re expected to jump in and solve problems, there aren’t going to be formal processes or teams that are responsible for functions. If you like that it’s awesome and exhilarating. If you don’t like that it really stinks.

        The failure rate has gone up lately, the end of free money has exposed a lot of weakness. I think funds are expecting 1/20 success if they’re investing at all.

        Reply ↓
      3. Anonymous Meerkat*

        1) For sure. I’m in the “job application optimism” stage, admittedly, so I really appreciate the cautionary note.
        2) This is something I am going to ask about during the application process. One thing they do post-interview is a paid project with the team the applicant’s applying to; that’ll give me a better idea. As far as I can tell from their website, their customer service hours are 9-5 M-F only, and I’ve found for coverage-based positions like that there’s very little creep. Customer service is a good role for work/life balance and actually being off the clock. Which is good!
        3)They’re not paying 40% over market – they’re paying 40% over my current, and while my company has some pretty nice non-quantifiables and a laudable mission, we’re below market. This particular startup (one of the reasons I’m applying there – their level of transparency was really, really impressive) is pretty transparent about their salary calculations, and one thing they’ve done (per their website, anyway) is deliberately pay female-dominated roles like customer service above market rate because sexism has artificially depressed those salaries. Engineers and finance are at market, but customer service, admin/reception, HR, all above. Assuming they actually put their money where their mouth is, that’s pretty neat.

        4) I’ve worked in customer service for two decades – I’m very good at “do the thing in front of you, move on to the next thing”. :p My current role involves building and refining processes, and I like that, and frequently get annoyed at how slow fairly straightforward change is.

        The team’s about forty people, and they first made their product available for sale about five years ago. Currently the team I’d be joining is two people. I am definitely not brave enough to be the third person to join a company!

        These are all excellent things to think about. Thank you.

        Reply ↓
    8. Hillary*

      I’m slightly on the other side in that I’m running the startup after leaving corporate.

      Their path to profitability is super important. Presumably they’re doing ok on the revenue side if they’re expanding customer service, but it’s still important to understand. If they’re in software, annual recurring revenue is the main metric. Is growth scalable (ie can they grow revenue without throwing labor hours at everything)?

      The other big question for me is product-market fit and customer turnover. How many customers do they have? Are they retaining existing customers as well as gaining new ones? What’s the plan for that? Particularly if you’re leading customer service, are you also responsible for post-sales support and retention?

      For you personally, what role will you have in strategy? What’s the plan for product? And ask about the total compensation package, will you get options? (maybe no if they’re offering above-market salary)

      Reply ↓
    9. LaminarFlow*

      I have done this, and there is no way I will work for a startup again, unless I have the opportunity to dive into financials. How much debt do they have? How many funding rounds have they done? Who owns what percentage of this company? What is the competition for their product/service like, and do they have any applicable patents/copyrights on it, or is the market for this product/service already saturated? What is the lifetime revenue of this company, and what is the projected forecast for the current year? How did the growth happen?

      I don’t proceed with anyone who can’t provide detailed information on those questions, and I also decline anything that is pre-revenue.

      Reply ↓
  20. Stella*

    Question about the timing of exiting a job where I’ve been working for less than three months — I’ve discovered my new job is not going to work out for various reasons. However, my peer will be taking FMLA leave soon, I suspect my manager is also job hunting, and we’re a 3 person department. I am job hunting but also able to resign without a job lined up. I’m trying to thread the needle of staying as long as I can without leaving my manager to do the work of the entire department but also maybe stay long enough to see a temp hired for my peer (which I don’t know if that’s going to happen or not). How do I decide when to resign? I know that there’s never a really good time but what sort of questions should I be asking myself or checkpoints to look for?

    Reply ↓
    1. Fly on the Wall*

      IMO resign when you want to, while I am a loyal employee I am more loyal to myself and my family. If something happened to your tomorrow and you were unable to work they would make it work, same if you leave tomorrow

      Reply ↓
    2. Glazed Donut*

      Agree with Fly on the Wall. Don’t make a decision based on the availability of other people in the office, or you may end up pushing it further and further down the line.
      For me, the tipping point was realizing that in order to stay in my then-current position, I had to become a mean and heartless version of myself (think: firing people who didn’t deserve it, fluffing up bullies, charging ahead with ethically questionable tasks). I knew the longer I stayed doing that kind of work, the more of an imprint it would have on my future work self when I eventually went elsewhere. I did the math with my savings and timed my exit so that my last dr appointment with work-provided healthcare would still be covered.
      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    3. Tio*

      If you’re a 3 person department, not a 3 person company, then when you leave is of no consequence. (It wouldn’t be in a 3 person company, either, but might have more considerations around recommendations/future applications.)

      Your manager is looking and probably not trying to thread the needle on when they leave. Look as hard as you can and leave when you have an offer. Your manager will either
      1. get help from another department or temp
      2. overwork herself for no reason
      3. quit or
      4. some things just won’t get done.

      However the only person with the power to make 2 happen or stop is them. And if they leave before you, the list above is your options too; don’t pick 2.

      Reply ↓
    4. MJ*

      Depending on your manager, if you are able/willing to quit without a job lined up and feel so inclined, it might be helpful to your manager to let them know you don’t think the job is working out. They can then factor that into whether or not to get a temp in to cover your peer. If they think you are going to be there they might not bother with a temp.

      But obviously don’t do this if it will be detrimental to you. Take care of yourself first – your manager / the company are responsible for looking after the business.

      Reply ↓
    5. LaminarFlow*

      Resign whenever it makes sense for you. It is very thoughtful to consider the impact of you leaving your small department, but it isn’t your problem. If your company decided to eliminate your job, they would do so when it makes sense for them, so take that same approach. Give whatever your industry standard notice is, and leave on good terms whenever you want to.

      Reply ↓
    6. M2*

      Resign when you want, but it is tough out there. I know multiple people and it took 12+ months for them to secure a role and this was before all the federal government and aid work.

      It is easier to get a job if you have a job, so honestly if you can, I would stay as long as you can until you can find something else.

      Reply ↓
    7. 1,000 Snails in a Lady Skin*

      This is hard for a lot of people to internalize but (unless you’re a manager) YOU are not responsible for your company’s staffing problems!

      If they are going to be seriously hurt with one person on leave, that’s not your problem, that’s your manager’s. Think: you’d be allowed to take vacation during this time! What if you also got hit by a truck / won the lottery next week and were out unexpectedly? What would they do?

      If they are going to be seriously hurt with 2/3 people down, that’s also not your problem, that’s your manager’s!

      Yes, it’s a tough situation for the manager to be in, but the staffing problems are a company issue, not YOUR ISSUE.

      (As a manager whose company prefers to have lean teams, I’ve had to chant these over and over to myself — the higher-up bosses made this decision, they have to deal with the consequences.)

      Reply ↓
  21. BRR*

    About six months ago my grand boss asked me to take over some of my manager’s work because my manager had too much on her plate (he asked with her knowledge). I said yes but only if we could apply to get me a promotion, which he begrudgingly said yes to (you know where this is going). My manager strongly thinks I should be promoted, helped me put together all of the documents, and has been hounding my grandboss about it but grandboss just keeps stalling. It was always clear he didn’t think I should be promoted for this but I’ve reached my limit.

    I have an overall plan for how I’m going to handle things , but I have two specific questions:
    1) I’m going to ask grandboss next week what the status is (everything so far has been through my manager which is just making it easier for my grandboss to avoid the situation). I know he’s going to mumble and say something along the lines of it was never promised or never guaranteed. How do I professionally say, “you’re lying because you wanted to take the easy way out. I would have never agreed to take on this extra work without a promotion?” I essentially want to make sure I keep him focused on the promotion and that I don’t end up debating what is a fact.
    2) Any tips or advice on containing my rage that he flat out lied to me and has made me lose out on thousands of dollars while working my tail off?

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Do you have anything documenting that he said yes? Was it a clear and unambiguous, if still grudging, yes? If so, refer to that documentation. “In your email from [date], attached, you indicated that I would receive a promotion to [title] upon taking on tasks X, Y, and Z. I am currently doing the work of a [title] since taking on those tasks, and my salary is not commensurate with the market rate for that position. Can you give me an idea of when that promotion will be put through? I’m assuming that given I’ve been doing the work since [date], the promotion will be back-dated to then.”

      If he stalls again or says no flat out, it’s time to start looking for another job, because he’s just going to keep taking advantage of you.

      Reply ↓
    2. Lurker*

      You can’t tell the grand boss he is lying. But this tells you how he does business and is not likely to ever promote you. Dust off your resume and start looking for something else with the new skills that you have demonstrated.

      Reply ↓
    3. Parenthesis Guy*

      Sounds like the grandboss was clear that he’d let you apply for a promotion but that he wasn’t going to support it.

      I think you can ask the grandboss for a meeting to discuss the status of the promotion, and what he thinks you need to do to get promoted or to improve your case. If you don’t think that what he wants you to do to get promoted is reasonable, you can ask to have the work you took on reassigned to someone else. That won’t go over well though, and the grandboss may say no. The grandboss may also decide you’re not a team player, and not consider you for future promotions.

      You may be happier just trying to get a new job elsewhere.

      Reply ↓
    4. MJ*

      I wouldn’t call grand boss out for lying – it’s not likely to help. I would lean into reiterating that you were very clear at the time that you were only willing to take on the additional work if a promotion was involved, and how can you make that happen.
      If he doesn’t provide a path to promotion, then as others have said you unfortunately may need to think about moving on.

      Reply ↓
    5. Mariana Twonch*

      Start a job search. There’s no leverage like another offer. It helps with the rage too. I currently have the best job I’ve ever had thanks to rage-applying.

      Reply ↓
    6. LaminarFlow*

      If you have documentation of your skip level saying that this extra work is promo-worthy, bring it up.

      Also, you MUST control your rage/anger/frustration when talking about this to your manager/skip level. You have every right to be angry, but a mature person who is worthy of a promotion will express objections in a thoughtful way that is based on facts, not emotional outbursts. Skip level boss might not agree with your findings, and the promotion might never happen. If that’s the case, you can ask (and document) Skip level boss what steps they need you to take to be eligible for promotion. Or, maybe you decide that you can do better elsewhere, which is always an option.

      Reply ↓
  22. Anima*

    How many items do your to do-lists have on average?
    At work, I’ve got 4, which each taking 1-2 h of work for a 5 hour work day. It can get up to 7, which is when stuff gets dropped.
    In my private life it’s 7 average and up to 20. I feel like I have waaay to may stuff to do and way, way, way to many moving parts.
    What is your to do-list like?

    Reply ↓
    1. New Fed*

      I use a Trello board with.. so many things on it. Different categories include Today, Tomorrow, Recurring Tasks, New, This Week, etc.
      I try though to only have about 5 items on my Today list. A to-do list that is too long is so frustrating because you never get through it. But I do like to note things when they occur to me, so I can circle back when I’m ready to put it on today’s list.
      The Trello board eventually makes somethings gray/faded when they have been on their for a long time with no action.. that’s sometimes a sign, either I really need to take care of that thing, or it’s a project that’s just not going to happen.

      Reply ↓
    2. EMP*

      my personal life todo list is infinite, it’s just a matter of whether it’s a short term need or not
      My work list is maybe….5ish tasks at any given time?

      Reply ↓
    3. Jay (no, the other one)*

      My work list has three discrete administrative tasks which can each have up to 20-25 line items. Each line item takes from 5-20 minutes. Two of those categories must be finished in a specific time frame. The other rolls over and we get it done when we get it done. Plus I am often liable for urgent/emergent issues which must be dealt with.

      Personal to-do list: there’s a global “must do this at some point” list which is entirely in my head (not ideal), a mid-range list of things that have to be done in the next few weeks, and today’s list. The global list has maybe six? seven? things on it. The mid-range list has three or four and all will take at least an hour or I would have done them already (if something will take me less than ten minutes I do it as soon as I become aware of it). I feel overloaded and rushed if today’s list has more than three items – there are also things I need or want to do every day (like practice piano) and if the “today” list gets too large, those get squeezed out.

      Reply ↓
    4. Tammy 2*

      20-30 a week things on my work to-do list, which take anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours depending on what they are.

      Reply ↓
    5. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

      Since becoming a parent, I never know when I’m going to get called because my kid is sick, etc. So I started only putting one big thing on my to-do list each day, and I focus on getting that one thing done, then working on the less important items if I have time. Sounds silly, but I’ve been more productive and I’ve been promoted twice now, so I guess it’s working?

      Reply ↓
    6. NotmyUsualName*

      Work – It varies a lot but on any given day between 40 and 100 ranging in time commitment from 5 minutes to 50 hours.
      Home – I rarely make lists so if I do it is something really unique so at most 4-5.

      Reply ↓
    7. Not That Jane*

      Personal to do list is split into daily or weekly recurring items (eg dishes, laundry, vacuuming) and one-offs (eg a doctor’s appointment, filing taxes). Daily I probably have 25-40 items on that list, between these two categories, BUT I keep myself organized by putting EVERYTHING on it so I don’t forget anything, eg taking meds, showering, etc.

      Work to do list is more recurring (ie a smaller list of things that recur very regularly) & usually has many fewer items. Maybe one “one-off” per day and three daily recurring items.

      Reply ↓
    8. Dark Macadamia*

      I just reorganized my whole Trello (for personal stuff) and my longest list, things I need to plan or schedule, has 15 items. This is big stuff like “plan family vacation” and little stuff like “schedule dentist.” My other 6 lists are 4-10 items each… so like, 60 things I need to do at some point? For work I generally have 1-3 daily tasks I need to complete during my planning time (I’m a teacher, so grading or lesson plans mostly) and maybe up to 10 things for the week.

      Reply ↓
  23. MightyHunter*

    How bad is using ChatGPT for cover letters? I’ve tried to edit them to sound like me, but honestly they already sound like me! It just would take me a lot longer to think of how to phrase things, but the result would be pretty similar. I’m not applying for jobs where there’s a ton of writing beyond emails to various stakeholders, so I’m not trying to show off my writing skills. Can hiring managers tell that they’re written by AI?

    Reply ↓
    1. ThatGirl*

      I think one of several problems you run into is that they have telltale phrases that a skilled manager might be able to tell. They always read very fakey to me. Surely you can find templated examples of cover letters that you can adapt to your own purposes instead.

      (I will say that I am very anti-ChatGPT anyway – not only is it bad on its face but it’s horrible for the environment.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Elle*

        We can also identify the fakeness of the letters. There’s overly corporate words and phrases used with no detail on the individual. I would use it as a starting point and add your personal touches and work highlights.

        Reply ↓
      2. foureyedlibrarian*

        I agree ThatGirl. Plus all the ethical issues (just look at LibGen, where Meta has basically stolen copy written books to farm them)

        Reply ↓
      3. Alisaurus*

        Plus when someone is sorting through dozens of applications at a time, it’s very easy to see which ones sound the same.

        I remember going through applications for a recent job opening I was helping with admin for, reading 20+ letters back to back, and thinking at least half of them sounded like they were written by the same person. There were at least several that were practically word-for-word identical.

        (I also found one that was almost word-for-word one of the AAM cover letters too. That was interesting.)

        Reply ↓
      4. Beans*

        Please don’t.

        I can tell and it’s an instant pass for me. I want to see how YOU express yourself. Unless I’m hiring for a writing role, minor grammatical mistakes aren’t going to be an issue.

        Reply ↓
    2. Merry go round and round*

      Try recording yourself reading what it says aloud, it will help you identify where it might sound a little off or like something you really wouldn’t say.

      Reply ↓
    3. MsSolo (UK)*

      Having done a recent hiring exercise, I couldn’t tell you exactly how many people used ChatGPT (though the one that said ‘company’ when we’re not one was a bit of a giveaway) but it was noticeable how average a lot of nicely written and easy to read applications were. Because that’s what ChatGPT does – it spits out the statistically average answer/sentence. I suspect we missed out on more than one candidate who would have had the right skills, but had AIed them into blandness. Of the applications we took through to interview, several were noticeably rougher written – choppy sentences, the occasional typo, jargon and acronyms specific to their current roles (not the one they were applying for) – but they scored highly because they were specific and detailed about their experience.

      Reply ↓
      1. Saturday*

        We got a lot of people using “company” when we’re not one before AI was available though – I think because people didn’t carefully edit the letter they used for other jobs.

        Reply ↓
    4. Qwerty*

      I equate ChatGPT output to horoscopes. At first it sounds eerily accurate or occasionally way off base. But then if you read the horoscopes for the other zodiac signs, you realize you have the same reaction to each of them and it loses it shine.

      ChatGPT cover letters generally blend together to the hiring manager who has received a dozen or more of them. I’ve had friends ask me to give them feedback on their cover letter and so far I have detected 100% of AI generated letters.

      Think of the cover letter as being in your voice. If you ran into the hiring manager in the elevator or walked up to them at a career fair, what is the real quick speil that you’ll give them while they are also skimming your resume? It doesn’t need to be perfect, just connecting the dots and helping give a little more of a person feel than a resume can.

      Honestly, I find the ChatGPT cover letters to be pretty week and usually just regurgate a combination of the resume + job description. The better ones come from people who put a lot of effort into the prompting and probably could have written their letter in less time. Where GenAI tools are really helpful is bouncing things off of – like realizing you said “I developed” too many times so you ask GenAI for some alternate examples or for help rephrasing a specific sentence. Use it to spark ideas rather than do the work for you.

      Reply ↓
    5. spcepickle*

      I both teach a master’s class (so I read lots of homework answers full of chatGPT) and hire people. The thing about chatGPT is it can be a great starting point. If it spit out a cover letter that you think reads well and sounds like you, than submit it. Chance are it will read like most other cover letters, which are mostly terrible. I would guess that the one chatGPT gave you is generic, repeats your resume and the job posting, and does not tell me anything about you, which is most of what I get from most cover letters. The only way I can tell for sure that someone used chatGPT is when I get a bunch of cover letters (or homework answers) that all use the exact same phrase which I know that I did not use in my lectures or job posting. Submitting a cover letter (any cover letter) means you can get through the application but unless you are a super strong candidate in experience or there is a small application pool it will most likely not get you an interview.
      Does your cover letter tell me: a) why you want THIS job (not a job, but this particular job), b) why you as a person with your experience would be good at this job, c) what you as a unique person bring to my company what makes you different then the 100 other cover letters I am reading. Cover letters are also your chance to guess my questions and answer them – are you moving from out of state, do you have a big resume gap, did you have many short term jobs before this one, are you making a career jump – cover letters are a good place to explain any of those types of things. These are things chat GPT can’t know, so they will not be in your cover letter. I know they are pain to write and I understand that it takes time to apply for a job. My answer would be chat GPT for jobs I am lukewarm about and more crafted cover letters for jobs I really want. You could do some science and see what your application to interview ratio is.

      Reply ↓
      1. Alisaurus*

        When I was last job hunting, I wrote a basic, templated cover letter that I would tweak slightly as needed for the lukewarm jobs and then would craft specific ones for the jobs I really wanted. It still made sure I answered the questions you list here but allowed me to still have something I made sure touched on the important things.

        Reply ↓
    6. LaminarFlow*

      I work in AI, and while I think ChatGPT is being applied to too many things that don’t need it/can’t use it properly, I loooooove it for use on cover letters. Of course, the output will depend on the input, but you already know that. And, if you are getting outputs that sound like you? Welp, good on the LLMs used to train ChatGPT.

      Definitely revise/remove/replace paragraphs where you have something better or more relevant to say. Personal anecdote about how your professional skills align with the job, but it isn’t a re-hash of your resume? Here’s your shot.

      ChatGPT is overly verbose, and outputs can usually be edited down. ChatGPT also likes to use a lot of dashes in outputs, so remove/replace as many as you can.

      Read it out loud. Do it again. Does it sound like something you & people in your industry would say? If so, done! If not, keep tweaking it until it sounds human, personal, and relevant.

      Reply ↓
    7. Elizabeth West*

      Honestly, you’re probably just better off searching for AAM cover letter posts and using that advice to write your own.

      Reply ↓
    8. Saturday*

      My advice is, use it as a starting point and then read carefully and edit for anything that sounds good but doesn’t really say anything. People will confidently say that they can tell, and sometimes they can… but they wouldn’t know about those times when they can’t tell.

      Reply ↓
  24. Annie*

    Hello commenters.

    I WFH, and want to have a more healthy lunch and avoid going out or just eating leftovers. I guess this is maybe work adjacent but I figure it fits here more than Saturday.

    What types of lunches are you having as a WFH employee? It feels easy to fall into the sandwich/chips/pop trap that I was used to when I was younger.

    Reply ↓
    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I do eat sandwiches most days! But I accompany them with cut veggies and water instead of chips and soda. And sandwiches can be very nutritious. Whole grain bread, fillings that don’t always include processed meats…you can get creative. The other day I did toasted whole wheat bread with hummus, a fried egg, baby lettuce, cucumber, za’atar, and hot sauce. So good. You can also make batches of soup and freeze individual portions to nuke for lunch.

      Reply ↓
    2. Decidedly Me*

      A sandwich is not unusual for me, though normally a breakfast sandwich and no chips or soda. Ramen (homemade, not the packets) is another I’ll do. Deviled eggs. Egg or tuna salad with crackers. Quesadilla.

      If I need a snack, string cheese, fruit, or hummus and vegetables are what I try to grab.

      Reply ↓
    3. Elle*

      Have you looked into salad kits and grain bowls? There’s lot of recipes online for grain bowls. I also like to make soup for lunch to pair with a sandwich instead of chips.

      Reply ↓
      1. Plaidless*

        Seconding this. I follow the Mediterranean diet, so I eat a lot of cold salads and grain bowls. They are easy to prep ahead of time, and I like not having to mess with heating them up, so I can eat slowly while multitasking without running to the microwave over and over.

        Reply ↓
    4. londonedit*

      I’ll admit, I do often have leftovers for lunch! I live on my own, so I often have extra from the previous night’s dinner, and I often make sure I cook enough on one evening to give me a couple of extra lunch portions.

      Since I got my air fryer, though, I’ve become slightly obsessed with having jacket potatoes for lunch. I do them for about 4-5 minutes in the microwave and then crisp them up in the air fryer for about 20 minutes. Being British I generally have them with baked beans and cheese, but you could do whatever fillings you like (one of the things I like to do is make a batch of veggie chilli one evening, and then have that on a lunchtime jacket potato).

      In warmer weather I tend to have something like a bean or lentil salad – again you can make a big batch of that to last a few days, and you can put anything you like in it. Just tins of mixed beans or lentils, drained and rinsed, and then I do things like adding tomato/cucumber/olives/spring onion/feta. I also sometimes have those wok-ready noodles with stir-fried veg and a fried egg on top, or something on toast (again, baked beans, or maybe garlic mushrooms or poached eggs).

      Reply ↓
    5. Glazed Donut*

      I try to do healthier lunches when I WFH especially because my on-site days are not that healthy.
      The formula I’ve used with success and VERY minimal prep work: bagged chopped salad + rotisserie or pulled chicken. I’ll head the chicken up so it feels a bit more like a “cooked meal.” There are so many salad options that I don’t feel like I’m eating the same thing every day.

      Reply ↓
    6. ThatGirl*

      I do often eat leftovers, but I also keep various frozen things I can heat up fairly quickly for an easy lunch – for instance, pantry lo mein/udon/ramen noodles, frozen veggies and either some broth or some sauce makes a quick and fairly healthy noodle lunch. Or dried pasta + tomatoes + spinach + parmesan cheese. Nothing wrong with a sandwich, maybe swap in an apple and carrot sticks? Basically I make it easy for myself to eat fruits and veggies.

      Reply ↓
    7. HannahS*

      Oooh ok so I had the rare-for-my-field privilege of WFH for a few months and I LOVED how I got to eat better. All of these take less than 15 minutes to prepare. My go-to meals were:
      -Japanese egg-drop soup on rice
      -quick okonomiyaki
      -scrambled eggs, toast, and fruit
      -herbed omelette with cheese
      -quick stir-fried veggies on rice

      To make rice midday-friendly without owning a rice cooker, I made a lot of extra rice each time we have it, and use a measuring cup to make little “pucks” of rice. I use a medium-grain rice which sticks to itself. I slide the pucks into a ziplock, suck out the air, and freeze. The little puck heat up very nicely in microwave from frozen and are much better than rice that has been in the fridge.

      Reply ↓
    8. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      When you’re at home, it’s so much easier to have leftovers. Make a lasagna Sunday night, then just cut off a hunk the next day and microwave. Ditto chili, stews, pot roast.

      Not to mention salads – make up your mind what to include right when you eat it, instead of packing something early in the morning and hoping you’ll still want it at noon (and hoping things don’t wilt either).

      I’ve even been known to step outside and grill a pork chop while I’m steaming some vegetables on the stove.

      Reply ↓
    10. Busy Middle Manager*

      My fav is:
      Cold quinoa, boiled sweet potato, greens, cranberries, sunflower seeds, with salad dressing. Either a grey-poupon vinegar mix, or green goddess avocado oil one. Need to prep/let cool the prior night

      Otherwise it’s hummus and cucumbers or tomato soup on mashed potatoes (easy to make in 10 min)

      Or some sort of veggie pattie, tomato sauce, and rice. Or an Amys frozen dinner. They have really good Mexican ones.

      Reply ↓
    11. Alex*

      I definitely eat a lot of leftovers! I live alone, and will generally make 3-4 dishes for the week, and eat them for both lunch and dinner. This week I have lentil soup, turkey burgers with a side of carrot and celery sticks, a dish with braised vegetables and sausage, and homemade chicken tenders with roasted vegetables and potatoes. I’ll just bring the most portable items for lunch at work, but otherwise don’t really differentiate between office and home lunches.

      Some things I keep for “emergency” meals include protein pasta, frozen vegetables, eggs and toast, canned tuna, peanut butter, or frozen fish sticks.

      Reply ↓
      1. Annie*

        Thanks. I live alone as well, so I usually will eat the leftovers for dinner two nights in a row and try to do something different for lunch. I appreciate your ideas, though!

        Reply ↓
    12. KG*

      I keep a variety of pickles, olives, artichoke hearts, roasted red pepper, etc on hand and make a quick, hearty salad with greens, tuna (or whatever meat is left over from another meal), shredded cheese, and a bunch of toppings. It makes it satisfying and filling.

      Reply ↓
    13. Zona the Great*

      No lunch for me. I instead choose a late hearty breakfast like a burrito or scramble. I find that I don’t want anything heavy until around 4 or 5 which is perfect for me. I don’t like eating a heavy mid-day meal if I am to remain productive after.

      Reply ↓
    14. Admin of Sys*

      Breakfast tends towards sandwhiches, but lunch is almost always something actually cooked. Today I had lentils and wild rice, plus spinach and mushrooms, and bits of the shredded rotisserie chicken. Yesterday was…spinach curry, I think? (I like spinach). Or it may have been chicken soup.

      But I also still tend to batch cook or prepare so lunch only takes heat-up time. Rotisserie chicken or thick cut deli meat, frozen veggies, quick rice (or I make a big batch and freeze portions), that sort of thing. So I’m getting ‘real food’ but I’m almost always heating it up in the microwave.

      Reply ↓
    15. Hyaline*

      I try to cook anticipating leftovers–so I just had a delicious broccoli and gnocchi dish that that I made earlier this week for dinner! Investing in good glass snapware or other containers for leftovers (especially if they can go from freezer to microwave to dishwasher) is a real game changer. If you usually cook a couple times a week, double your batches, and put a few meals in the freezer. After a couple weeks, you get a nice stock of meals so you’re not eating the same thing every day. And since you’re home, you have the luxury of a full kitchen right there, so stuff like beans and rice or risotto or soups can get jazzed up with toppings that would be a pain to tote to the office. I also try to keep a tupperware of chopped lettuce for salad in the fridge all the time, and throw whatever on top for a meal.

      Reply ↓
    16. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I don’t crave a lot of variety so I eat yogurt, fruit, and cheese most days. Sometimes leftovers if there’s something that sounds good and that I’m not saving for dinner. We usually plan for one night of leftovers each week.

      Reply ↓
    17. You can call me flower*

      I do I lot of soups. I make a big pot at the beginning of week and eat leftovers. I also I like making extra protein for dinner and adding it to a wrap or on top of a salad. Honestly prepping the ingredients ahead of time helps me a ton. I just toss it all together.

      Reply ↓
    18. Chauncy Gardener*

      Leftovers from last night’s dinner. Cereal and fruit. Soup and toast. (I usually have a ton of frozen soup in the freezer that I cooked in bulk.

      Reply ↓
    19. Qwerty*

      Are you open to leftovers from lunches rather than your dinners? Most of my suggestions involve making 4lunches at once.

      Stir Fry – I’m lazy and get the Family sized pre-mixed bag of stir fry veggies, then add a can of chicken. Usually get 3-4 meals out of this. Can reheat in a fry pan or in the microwave depending on mood/available time. Add noodles to make the dish last longer.

      Soup – In the winter I make a big pot of soup each week like Chicken and Rice, Beef Barley, etc. Again, lazy person who uses frozen bags of soup veggies or mirepoix, cans of chicken, etc whenever possible so its mostly toss things in and let it simmer a long time. I have fun switching up the grains (wild rice, purple rice, farro, barley, noodles) which has an impact on flavor. I also feel like I get less sick / recover faster when doing this.

      Slow Cooker meals – A lot of these are chicken based, like honey garlic chicken. I find if I cut the chicken breast in half, its more of a lunch portion sizing (though to be honest I originally did it just so it fit in the crock pot better). Usually I double the sauce amount – lot of sauce in the leftovers, but keeps everything moist.

      Consider dinner food for lunch? There are some one sheet pan meals for summer that are basically meat + veggies. I tend to prefer a larger lunch and something small for dinner.

      Reply ↓
    21. Honeybadger*

      I live alone and WFH. How I handle lunches is to make two portions for dinner and package the second to heat up for lunch. That way, I only have to reheat lunch and don’t have to waste time doing any lunch prep. I also prefer a hot lunch over cold sandwiches. Since my dinners are thinks like fish, veggies, and a bit of starch like rice, couscous, or potatoes, it works out pretty well. Things you could do is prepare a bit of lean protein the night before to reheat and have it with a large salad and some fruit for lunch. Like..fresh spinach with some pear slices, pomegranate seeds, crumbled gorgonzola cheese, bit of toasted pecans, and some cold chicken with a balsamic vinegarette on it is lovely.

      Reply ↓
      1. Annie*

        That sounds really good. So a lot of salads are recommended, along with other toppings for sandwiches and appropriate leftovers.

        Reply ↓
  25. Anon for this*

    tldr: how do I stop being anxious about work mistakes that might have happened or not?

    More context (without details for anonymity):
    I got told secondhand that someone from my team might have done something that a partner is not happy with. It might be serious, or not ideal but not super serious, or just a misunderstanding depending on the exact situation. I also don’t know if it was me specifically ( I know at least one other person who was in the position to do the same mistake but that would also reflect badly on my project management skills). I know intellectually that unless the partner actually lets us know directly we cannot really do anything to apologize or rectify and my boss also agrees. But I still have a pit in my stomach every time I think about it and keep turning situations in my head. Does anyone have any tips to manage this anxiety until I get told more?

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      Do you know what the thing is? Like, was it “partner didn’t like that you emailed a client directly”, or “partner isn’t happy with your team for reasons unspecified”? If you know, can you check to see if it actually happened? I know you say you can’t rectify until the partner says something, but sometimes you can quietly check if things were done according to the book or not. Then if partner does come to tell your team something you can be prepared with “I haven’t been aware of any direct emails without your say-so” or “we did, sorry; since then we’ve had retraining on direct client contacts and it won’t happen again” (running with my earlier example here).

      Reply ↓
      1. allx*

        This. Figure out all the facts you can (and decide whether you agree the thing that happened is objectively wrong) to be prepared for the uncomfortable conversation if it comes to that.

        Or go the partner and say, I heard you may be unhappy about Thing. What can I do/here’s what I can do to address that.

        Reply ↓
    2. Mariana Twonch*

      This is essentially unsubstantiated gossip. If I were you, I would think hard about the person who told you this “information” and what may have been their reasoning for doing so.

      Reply ↓
    3. Neither Here Nor There*

      I have anxiety, and what works for me may not work for you, but here’s what I’ve done!

      My brain can convince me that pre-worrying about something I can’t do anything about yet is good because I’ll be “prepared” for the worst-case scenario. What happens is that I am miserable while worrying and also miserable when The Bad Thing happens, and if it doesn’t happen, I was miserable for no reason at all. If I didn’t worry, I would still be miserable when it happens, but I would have spared myself that extra suffering. And if nothing happened, I’d never be upset at all! Consequently: waiting until it happens to feel bad always results in less misery. Sometimes, this knowledge helps me. (Usually not, though. Logic is not very good against the anxiety.)

      I also like to focus on what I can do. I make a list: if they tell me I made a mistake, I will write an apology. I will show my sincerity by doing X, Y, and Z. I will avoid making this mistake in the future by doing (whatever). Now I have a plan. If the bad thing happens, I will do the plan. My penance is doing the work on the list; the person does not want or need me to lambast myself for weeks as well.

      Sometimes, I use meditation apps to help practice mindfulness. Those techniques help you identify a thought, acknowledge it, and let it go. I find that helpful. Sometimes, I will distract myself with social media or work, or hobbies, or videogames. These usually help get me out of the panic, but often make me feel bad in different ways (especially social media).

      What also helps me, but which is very weird and may not actually help anyone else, is that I am genuinely angry at myself if I worry about something and it turns out it wasn’t an issue. My brain can justify worrying as “useful” if it turns out I was right (my brain is not correct, but it “feels” better), but if I drive myself to agony and then find out it was for nothing, I get angry with myself. Consequently, if I don’t have absolute assurance that the thing I’m worried about is 100% true, I have some success thinking, “How would you feel if all of this turned out to be a rumor?” Since the answer is “Wow, I’d feel like I wasted hours of my life I’ll never get back!!” I can sometimes use that to redirect myself.

      I hope you can find a way to get your mind off this until (or unless!) something happens!

      Reply ↓
  26. Insert Pun Here*

    I have an interview next week for a job that I’m not sure I want. I am currently employed, in a sector that may see impact from the administration’s budget cuts, though my specific division is unlikely to be directly impacted. (We may be indirectly impacted in any number of ways.) The job I’m interviewing for is similar work, in a sector that’s less likely to see direct impact, a more senior title but pay would be slightly less or (best case) about the same. I don’t have any reason to think that it’d be a better or worse workplace.

    I’m just not really sure how to weigh all these factors. I like my job! I don’t really want to be looking for other jobs! (I applied to this one on a whim and, well, here we are.) If you were me, what would you be thinking about in this situation?

    Reply ↓
    1. Emac*

      If the pay would be about the same, I would be looking at other benefits. Is health insurance better/cheaper, is there more vacation time, etc.? I’d also think about where you are in your career – do you have time to wait out the current administration and any impacts it might have on your sector?

      Reply ↓
    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      When I interview for roles I’m not too sure I want, I look at it as opportunity to learn about another organization and get more interviewing experience. I focus less on the job and just see how things go. Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  27. Impending layoffs?*

    This week I found out that two of my coworkers was laid off as part of a “reorg” that has never been announced. I found this out from one of their coworkers when I asked when one would be in next because I needed to talk to him about a project.

    I’m a senior level person and I know our company is projected a loss this year but we were assured staff reduction would not be at play unless the loss continued into 2026. However, I’m not sure this was strictly a financial decision. Five of us – including the two that were laid off – were promoted as a retention strategy during the great resignation. I am wondering if they are looking to get rid of us (all senior level but not VPs) to replace us with lower-paid managers… or not replace us at all. Our company is super toxic overall, and I’ve only been here as long as I have because there has been some instability in my personal life that made finding a new job unappealing.

    I am fortunate to be in a financial position where if I got laid off, I could take a little sabbatical. However, I’m still feeling a little apprehensive and anxious. I think it’s mostly because this job, as terrible as it’s been, has been a source of stability when I needed it. I have been applying around to other jobs, but haven’t had much luck yet. I’m not sure what exactly I’m asking for, but I guess if anyone has pearls of wisdom for getting through this, or just wants to commiserate, I’d love to hear it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Mariana Twonch*

      It might be helpful to reframe your thinking about the role your job plays in your life. You’re looking to this job to provide emotional stability, when that’s not really what it’s for. Your job is a source of income, and while it’s OK to like your job, and derive satisfaction from it, it should not be a source of emotional fulfillment. Jobs come and go in life, and we often have little or no control over that. Best of luck, I hope this works out for you.

      Reply ↓
      1. Impending layoffs?*

        Thank you for this. However reflecting on it it’s not that it provides emotional fulfillment, it’s that it’s something that’s predictable and hasn’t changed. When in my personal life there has been wildfire destruction of my home, losing a parent, relationship suddenly ending. This job has been pretty terrible since I started it, but it was something that didn’t change, when everything else was changing rapidly and felt out of control.

        Reply ↓
    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      It is very possible they decided they don’t need people at that level and that it would make more sense to have more junior level staff. I have been at companies were we have worked to reduce the number of senior leaders. This is sometimes due to cost and sometime because it just doesn’t make sense to have so many leaders (more leaders can slow work down actually). I’m sorry you are going through this but am glad you are in a good place financially. For now, maybe just focus on your work and showing your value. But know this is not something you can control. You only control if you decide to continue to work there.

      Reply ↓
      1. Impending layoffs?*

        Thank you for this perspective. Unfortunately they were both at my level! There were 5 of us and now there are 3. We are all in different departments though.

        Reply ↓
  28. Bluebonnet*

    Do you feel like you chose your field or fo you feel like you got thrown into it? If you were thrown into it, do you recommend staying if you are successful and find the job agreeable enough (although not exciting)?

    I majored in journalism and was a student worker at the college library. After graduating, I realized that I did not want to be a journalist but still needed an income. Therefore, I applied and got a staff position at that same library.

    From that job, I transitioned to two other libraries on the same campus taking pay raises each time. I used tuition remission to get a student affairs masters part time to pivot to student affairs as an academic advisor (or study abroad advisor). However, after graduating, I realized that the pay for the jobs in this field is lower than my current pay. I originally wanted to ve

    I am between a rock and a hard place since I would have to either take a pay cut and change fields or stay where I am with no further advancement (without getting a library science masters).

    My true passion is foreign languages and travel, but I am guessing it is best to stay where I am and enjoy my hobbies off the clock. I do wish my life was more exciting, however, but do not want to go into more debt.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      Definitely did not plan and would not have planned for my current role (fundraising). It was just the one most needed/most in demand every time I job searched. The answer to your question will vary for everyone. What are the things you value the most? For me, having more career opportunities and better pay in my generally under-paid field is worth a lot, plus my role lends itself to working independently at home, something I value. I feel like I am reasonably good at my job and I like that it is important to the organizations I care about, so I’m reasonably satisfied, even though the actual day-to-day work is not my favorite (I used to do field work and was on a science track – now I basically fill out forms all day). On balance, I can live with it because I’m a work-to-live type. But others would feel differently.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        That said, I definitely contemplate every so often going back and doing something more “real” for lack of a better term, fairly often. Sooo much of my job is just managing my inbox and sitting in meetings and sort of twiddling my way through the workday. Just a brain in a jar. How would I feel day to day if I had something I actually *needed* to do all day, like I was a nurse/teacher/lab worker or even something more physical like being back in the field? Would I hate it? Would I be exhausted all the time? How much would it stink to have to show up in person versus how good would it feel for the day to move quicker? Not sure I could make the switch now even if I wanted to, without going back to school, and I refuse to take on any debt so it might be a moot point. But I do think about it.

        Reply ↓
        1. Valerie Loves Me*

          Are you by any chance a grant writer? I’m intrigued by it as I like to do research and writing…. I have non-profit experience, but not sure if I should make the leap as an older professional.

          Reply ↓
    2. Decidedly Me*

      I stumbled into what I do. It’s not what I wanted my path to be originally, but I’m good at it and it pays well. Going to what I wanted to do in the first place would require going back to school and starting over career wise. I sometimes have wistful thoughts about it, but I don’t think I’m really up to that at this time (and probably won’t ever be).

      Reply ↓
      1. Angstrom*

        Similar. I never would have chosen this industry or position, but in larger terms, what I do — solve problems and help people — is what I enjoy, and what I would have wanted to do wherever I ended up.

        Reply ↓
    5. Valerie Loves Me*

      I was an English major with no clue. I applied for editorial jobs, marketing jobs, publicity jobs and anything that involved some kind of writing. Took the first full time job I could get. In PR. Never felt entirely confident. Changed industries. Not a pay cut, but not more money. Still PR. Still not entirely confident. Changed industries again. Better pay. Still not confident, but workable. Changed industries once more. Pay cut. Still meh.

      My advice is find a career that involves the tasks and activities you excel at, then the highest position that such a career would be. Then create your path to get there.

      Reply ↓
    6. cmdrspacebabe*

      I fell into mine through a co-op placement, but it worked out well for me, luckily!

      Probably not helpful as you haven’t actually asked about fields, but I wonder if you’ve ever looked into consular work (working in embassies abroad to support travelers, immigrants/expats, etc.). A former supervisor of mine moved into that from a communications job and now leads the most Instagram-glamorous, travel-filled life you could imagine.

      Reply ↓
    7. Tio*

      So I’m a customs broker. I majored in international business and had no idea what a customs broker even was.

      I graduated college into a rough job market. My friend got a job doing documentation in logistics, and I applied at her company with a referral from her. But another employee referred someone else and they got the job. This is probably how it should have gone, looking back – he had been there longer and was more established an trusted – but at the time, with no “adult” job so to speak, I was mad. SO I thought “I’ll show them” and applied to a bunch of different logistics companies and got hired into one who liked my bilingual skills. while there, I overheard some of the employees wondering why another manager didn’t just get her broker license, since it would make her “so much more valuable”. I looked up what the license was, saw that it required a licensing test, and since I had been good at tests in school, figured why not. Then I passed on my first try (not common) and surprise! I was a broker. Have been for over a decade now

      The joke in my industry is that no one ever grew up thinking they wanted to be a broker lol

      Reply ↓
    8. Kindly Egg*

      I’m a back-and-forth on this one – I grabbed whatever jobs I could find right out of college (while, ironically, getting my MSLS). Then got into academic libraries and worked in that field for several years.

      I just made a transition away from libraries (still in higher ed, but a different role and institution), because library work was burning me the heck out. I got to a point where I was applying to anything I was remotely qualified for (or that I could spin that way), and have now lucked into a job in scheduling and events that I never would have imagined myself in, but am really loving.

      I think if you have experience in higher ed (particularly in libraries, where you work with a huge cross section of the institution’s community), it’s maybe easier to make the transition to different roles within higher ed – of which there are so many. If where you are currently is at least Good Enough, then that’s great, but if you find yourself itching to move into something else, definitely consider looking around at what else is available at your institution (and others locally) and casting a wider net – you never know what you’ll find!

      (That is a lot of advice you didn’t ask for, so please forgive me for that – but I’m always so interested to talk/think about library and post-library careers!)

      Reply ↓
    9. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Total accident. My mom was in medical administration (coding and billing for small family practices) all my life and I thought it was the most boring thing ever. When I was 23, I got a temp job at a big hospital in their coding and billing areas. The guy I was helping with a one-off project quit at the end of my first week and I ended up loving it and staying for over eight years, becoming coding certified, and at this point I’ve been in the field (and progressed from individual contributor to management) for over 20 years, always in big academic hospital systems.

      Reply ↓
    10. Melody Powers*

      I fell into my current field and I’m definitely planning to stay. I used to work in animal care and I enjoyed it but wanted more stability and benefits that most places I used to work didn’t provide. Now I work for state government in the mental health field. I have a friend who was able to refer me and I’ve done well (promoted after 8 months). This was never my plan but I see myself staying here until I get my full pension while enjoying hobbies in my free time.

      Reply ↓
  29. Dinosaur Sr.*

    Can someone help me find the recent-ish question about the employee who expects the boss to do everything because it’s easier for the boss to answer the question than the employee to find the answer? I hope my description makes sense – ha! (And now I realize I sound like the employee but I really tried to find it myself first)

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      None of these are particularly recent, but from the employee side there was this past letter:

      “my boss turns it into an ordeal every time I ask him a question” from October 7, 2015 (with an update December 3, 2015)

      and from the boss side there were these past letters:

      “How do I train my staff to be comfortable figuring things out on their own?” from April 5, 2019 (#1 on a short answer post)

      “how to tell an employee he needs to figure some things out himself” from February 7, 2022

      I’ll link to those three letters in a follow-up comment. If they aren’t the one you’re thinking of, do you remember any more details from the letter? Was it written by the boss or by the employee? (Or by a by-standing coworker?)

      Reply ↓
  30. Mashed Potato*

    Anyone been to an interview where you realized you might have overshoot and not qualified? Or you got grilled and realized there’s a mismatched what they posted and what they’re looking for? I’m just having some flashbacks lately and want to talk. haha.

    Reply ↓
    1. TW*

      I’ve been to many an interview for a technical writing position where it was clear they wanted a software engineer who was willing to accept less money to write manuals. Leetcode questions, calculus questions, just a vomit spiral of STEM men trying to verbally push me around. Younger me suffered through the awkward, but older me excuses myself and leaves. I’m not here to be your cheap ghost coder.

      Reply ↓
      1. TechWriterToo*

        Are they? Or are they looking for a tech writer for technical products. I would be shocked to go to a tech writing interview and not discuss my experience writing code, testing APIs, doing data mapping, and all sorts of technical tasks. For many of us that’s a normal expectation for tech writing. It sounds like you might be more focused on end user documentation which us totally fine, but writing documentation for programmers is a large component of the tech writing world and something it would be strange not to encounter if seeking tech writer work. Maybe you need to be more explicit about the types of tech writing jobs you’re interested in pursuing.

        Reply ↓
        1. TW*

          I’m not interested in debating this with you. Commenters are expected to take others at their word. Please stop white knighting for companies you’ve never even heard of.

          Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Oh yeah. My resume and cover letter are so well done (no lies told) that I often get invites for interviews for jobs I am not close to being qualified for. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to say, “I know you’re speaking English but I have never heard those words strung together like that before in my life”.

      Reply ↓
    3. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

      Yes. One very hyperactive Belgian gentleman wanted to hire me with a view towards me becoming CTO in six months.

      This would have been my second job. I was 24.

      Reply ↓
    4. Tio*

      Yes.

      I applied to work at Walgreens in their logistics/compliance internal division and the interviewer absolutely grilled me on a software that I admitted in the beginning I did not have experience in. (It was a type of software used in the retail side of the industry but not in the 3rd party logistics side of the industry I was currently in.) I have never had a worse interview than that, and I knew before we even got off that I was never hearing from them again.

      Funnily enough, when I got my current job, I used that as my “weakness” – I know your industry uses this type of software and I have no experience with it, so that’s my weakness, but I’m a fast learner and believe I can get up to speed with it pretty quickly.
      Ironically, the had just launched the use of that software like a month before so no one knew how to use it well yet so my weakness wasn’t even weak!

      Reply ↓
    5. WeirdChemist*

      Yes. I interviewed for a position that was advertised as a mix of Field A and Field B, where I was very experienced in B and rather weak in A which was well reflected in my resume. In the interview it became obvious that they mostly cared about Field A and I definitely fumbled those questions in the technical portion of the interview. (It also became clear that their institutional knowledge on B was lacking…. I probably could have actually contributed in that way but whatever…). I definitely didn’t get that job and sometimes the awkwardness of that interview haunts me lol

      Did I mention that this was in hour 2 of an *8hour* interview? Yeah… probably should have cut it there but unfortunately I stuck it out the rest of the day for nothing!

      Reply ↓
    6. A Significant Tree*

      Yup – it was for an internal role in a different division. The position description said it was for a Lead role (in that company Lead = team lead, not supervisory or management). Had I known it was a management role I would not have applied – not qualified or interested in that.
      Every “tell me about a time” question was about my management experience. I had no actual management experience, which should have been obvious from my resume, so I tried to fill in with team lead experience but that clearly wasn’t what they were looking for. At least it only lasted about 45 minutes.

      Reply ↓
  31. Olive*

    I recently went on medical leave for an eating disorder. No one at work suspected anything was wrong, so everyone was surprised when I announced my leave. I came back to work after two months and continued in outpatient therapy for another two months. All I told my boss and coworkers about my condition was that I was taking medical leave and then continuing treatment when I returned to work, and they were completely respectful and didn’t pry. Everyone’s been great! But I feel guilty because I think they are too worried about me. My eating disorder wreaked havoc on my life, but I’m lucky enough that I’ve been able to heal and strengthen myself physically and emotionally. I feel a little bad that they think I’m going through a terrifying disease when it is actually treatable and I’m doing a lot better. I don’t want to write it off completely, but I’ve been smiling and assuring people that I’m doing OK now.

    Has anyone else experienced this with medical leave? I am also, uh, aware that my mental health demons may be leaping in to tell me I don’t have ~real problems.~ But I’m curious if other people have had similar experiences!

    Reply ↓
    1. KitKat*

      I don’t have similar experiences to offer but I just want to reassure you a little bit. Eating disorders are really serious and really scary. They are real problems and you are deserving of concern and care. I’m so glad you were able to take the time off and have had a good experience on return!

      Reply ↓
    2. Plaidless*

      Setting aside the issue of your imposter syndrome, so to speak, carry on for the sake of normalizing medical leave. Serving as an example of maintaining privacy for your diagnosis/recovery will help those who come after you.

      Reply ↓
    3. Grasshopper Relocation LLC*

      I assure you, if I were your colleague and found out that that was what you had had, the LAST thing I would think would be “oh, I thought it was something serious.”

      Reply ↓
    4. HannahS*

      I have any intention of invalidating your feelings, but I would really disagree that you that you don’t have a terrifying disease or that people are “too” worried.

      I actually do have a colleague with a serious eating disorder who has taken time away from work to recover. She and I have never discussed it (and I don’t think she has any obligation to talk about it with me) but I know about her illness because she is involved in mental health advocacy outside of work where she discusses her experience more openly. My feelings towards her are entirely caring and sympathetic. When she returned and was obviously in better health, I felt relieved and happy for her. I hope that she is able to remain well and recover even more fully. It would not feel good to me if she in some way tried to communicate that I shouldn’t care about her. And to be clear–if I was crossing boundaries, I would of course want to know. But she and I don’t talk about her illness; I just behave in a generally sensitive manner (not pressuring her to eat or participate in group photos, ensuring that our social activities don’t always revolve around food or exercise.)

      I hope that if one of your colleagues who appeared well suddenly announced a medical leave and then returned, that your degree of compassion to them wouldn’t change just because their illness was treatable and they were recovering. Allowing other people to care about you is part of participating in connection with other people. We give care, and we also receive it.

      I am so happy to hear that you feel that you’re recovering and I hope you continue to feel better!

      Reply ↓
      1. Olive*

        Thank you— and thank you to all the commenters! I think I did need the reminder that this is a serious issue. And the LAST thing I want is for anyone to read my comment and think that their eating disorder is not a major and scary thing. It only seems “not that bad” now because I got help before it got worse.

        I don’t want to derail this thread into too much mental health territory, but I encourage anyone struggling with similar concerns to see themselves as deserving of help. And for all employers, generosity and flexibility and privacy are true gifts to all your employees— whether or not they have a diagnosable Thing. As you allude to, Hannah, the most important thing is to establish a culture of compassion and respect.

        Reply ↓
    5. Nesprin*

      You have ~real problems~ eating disorders kill people! Congrats on going to get treatment and on doing better now. It sounds like you’re dealing with a lot of shame and stress- this is 100% a thing to discuss with your therapists and care team.

      Reply ↓
    6. HR Exec Popping In*

      I previously had to take a medical leave (and might have to again) and didn’t want to share why. I told people that I have a medical condition and my doctors needed me to take time off for treatment. When I returned, I just told people that I am now doing fine and continuing treatment, but it is not something they need to worry about. Then I just let it go and don’t bring it up. I think sometime we over think things. People that are nice and respectful tend to take your cues. And those that aren’t and don’t aren’t worth your effort or concern.

      I’m so glad you got help and are doing better. As others have said, your eating disorder is serious so don’t minimize it (to yourself). And be proud of your progress!

      Reply ↓
    7. Can't Sit Still*

      Congratulations on getting treatment for your ED! It’s very hard work, and I’m very happy for you that you’re doing well.

      However, an eating disorder IS a terrifying disease that wreaks havoc on the mind and body, and is all too often terminal.

      If you wish, you can reassure your coworkers that you’re doing well now, are in remission, or even a bit about how “we caught it in time” if you like. This is something your therapist should be able to help you roleplay, too. (I am hoping you still have a therapist or some kind of external support. ED is sneaky and can come creeping back when you’re busy living your life, especially early in recovery.)

      Reply ↓
    8. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      Remember that you are doing well now because you took that leave and went for treatment, and the treatment is working well for you.

      Something can be both serious, even terrifying, and treatable.

      Reply ↓
    9. mreasy*

      It is wonderful to hear that you got the treatment you needed and are healing!

      I went on medical leave for a mental health crisis and during leave was in inpatient care and shared it the same way – medical leave with continuing treatment. My colleagues all just wanted to know I was okay, the same way you would after someone has a bad flu or a serious surgery.

      You have a serious condition. You got the treatment you needed. If people are anxious that you have a serious condition, that’s okay – because you do. An eating disorder, like any other mental health issue, is a medical problem just as much as breaking a leg or having chronic migraines or any other more “traditional” type of disease or health problem.

      We certainly don’t live in a culture that treats mental health disorders the same way they do other medical issues. But in reality, they are as serious and often more serious – so please try to tell yourself that it’s okay that your colleagues are concerned.

      Reply ↓
  32. Janeway, Her Coffee In Hand*

    I was recently thinking about a situation that happened at a previous job and wondering if I handled it correctly or if it was as unreasonable as it felt.

    I worked at my last job for nearly a decade. Early on, it was a fully in-office position. Most people left their computers at their desks overnight and over the weekend. I also have ADHD and would often forget my computer if I took it home.

    In one of those pre-pandemic days, I once got sick overnight and had left my laptop at work. I have a family member who works across the street from my office, so I asked my manager if she’d be ok with him coming by to grab my laptop for me so I could catch up on emails when I felt better. My manager enthusiastically agreed and later said she enjoyed getting to meet my family member.

    Fast forward to post-pandemic. We’re back in the office Monday and Tuesday, and I have a new manager. I leave my computer in the office between in-office days, because I’m still ADHD as hell. One Monday night, I get sick, so I let my manager know I’ll have my family member swing by to pick up my laptop. Unlike my last manager, this one seems very hesitant with the arrangement. She leaves it at the front desk and never interacts with him.

    Next time I meet with her, she tells me that I absolutely must bring my laptop home every night, and that she found it uncomfortable to have someone pick it up for me. I push back on my concern about forgetting it, she dismisses it, then counters that it’s a security issue. We work behind multiple locked doors and the office is locked overnight. Despite the argument being ridiculous, I inform her that if it’s an issue, I’ll lock it in my locker overnight. She remains unhappy with this and continues to harp on the issue for a month until finally giving up.

    I never saw any problem with leaving my computer overnight at work. I’m not on call, I don’t need to work overnight, and 99.9% of the time, I came in the next day. I found her attitude about having someone pick my laptop up and the ‘security concerns’ ridiculous. Was I in the wrong here, or do other people see her behaviour as unnecessary too?

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think she felt inconvenienced and didn’t like that. I’m pretty sure nobody is in my office today, and I know that some people who never WFH have left their computers in the office.

      She’s being ridiculous, and another option is to stop checking your email when you’re out sick.

      Reply ↓
    3. Time Zone Confusion*

      Hmm. Well for one I don’t think I’d emphasize to my boss that I’m simply not capable of remembering to do something with consistency, even if it’s true. I suppose the boss means she would feel responsible if she left the laptop at the desk and it later got lost/stolen/the wrong person came and picked it up?

      Reply ↓
      1. Janeway, Her Coffee In Hand*

        I’ve always been pretty open about my mental health and the majority of my managers have appreciated my honesty. It’s not an excuse for me, just a statement of fact to them: I forget things, so never feel bad reminding me about something. I don’t work in fields where having an impeccable memory is a job requirement and I would rather they know why than assume I’m just lazy.

        Reply ↓
        1. RagingADHD*

          Fair, but informal understandings do not carry any job protection, and even formal accommodations do exempt you from aspects of the job that are considered core to performance. And security policies are a pretty easy case to make as a core requirement.

          Repeatedly telling a new manager that you are incapable of following direct instructions is not going to do you any favors in the long term. An awful lot of commenters here have ADHD, so we know how it works – and sometimes you just have to come up with strategies to make sure you get stuff accomplished, even if it is a weak point.

          Yes, consistency is hard and anyone (even NT people) are going to miss a trick from time to time. But just saying “I can’t do that because I have ADHD” is always going to come across as a cop out. One thing that we ADHDers are really good at is finding the bright line between stuff that is really going to have practical impacts, and stuff that is not. “Manager is unhappy and nags” is not much of a practical impact, and is probably going to be filtered out.

          It is entirely possible that “do not leave work equipment in the office overnight” is or could become a strict company policy that nobody gets exceptions for. If you were going to be fired for leaving it there, you’d figure something out. That is a practical impact that is going to be worth the effort of constructing a system of backups that ensure the desired result.

          You didn’t figure something out, because you were confident that the manager would back down rather than fire you. And that proved to be true. But it wasn’t because you literally can’t. It’s because it wasn’t worth the cost-benefit analysis to you.

          That doesn’t mean the manager was entirely wrong to have concerns. It means you succeeded in gaming her.

          Reply ↓
    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You probably signed a form when you were hired about custody of equipment, and you hopefully had IT security training too. Your family member did not.

      The security concern is about this random person, who your supervisor has never met before, carting company equipment around for who knows how long, in what manner, and to what intermediate locations, before they get it back to you. If they lose it or it’s stolen from them, who’s responsible? What if there is confidential information on there?

      Reply ↓
    5. Magpie*

      It sounds like her main concern is having your family member pick up your laptop on days that you’re too sick to go into the office, and she wants you to take your laptop home every night in order to avoid that ever happening. I think that’s a reasonable concern. I would have a lot of concerns about a random non-employee taking possession of sensitive company property, even if it’s at the request of the employee. I don’t know this person so I don’t know with absolute certainty that the laptop will make it safely to you, and depending on what sort of sensitive information you have on the laptop that could be a huge problem for the company. If you’re choosing to leave your laptop at work every night, I think you also need to resign yourself to not having access to that laptop if you’re suddenly unable to go into the office one day because your boss has made it clear that she’s not ok with anyone other than you taking the laptop out of the building.

      Reply ↓
    6. WellRed*

      If you’re taking a sick day, take a sick day, instead of having people have to get your laptop to you. I think your boss reasoning about security aetc was ridiculous, but I also agree with time zone that telling your boss you can’t remember to bring your computer was the best move.

      Reply ↓
      1. Janeway, Her Coffee In Hand*

        Prior to COVID, we had no WFH days except for snow. If there was snow in the forecast, I’d take it home. After COVID, I took it home Tuesday night and brought it back Monday.

        Reply ↓
    8. RagingADHD*

      I don’t get the security concern about leaving the laptop in the office, but my job would not allow anyone not on staff to take a laptop off premises, even if it were my spouse. The security concern is that nobody else is supposed to have their hands on a company computer.

      We have a whole list of rules about not leaving company equipment unattended outside of the office or our home / designated remote work location – not in a car, not in a coffee shop, not even for a minute. These are immediate-firing-offense level rules.

      Reply ↓
  33. Hobbit in a hole*

    I’m generally a lurker, not a poster, but something happened yesterday at work and I’d love your take on it.

    Background: I work at a community college doing one-on-one and group tutoring for biology, chemistry, and math. There is a student who I and a few other tutors see on a regular basis. He is your stereotypical cis guy, absolutely average in every way. Picture late teens to early twenties lacrosse bro. He usually wears tee shirts and jeans or the occasional polo and khakis.

    Yesterday he showed up for his appointment wearing a black leather studded collar with a small lock holding it closed and the word SLAVE in little rhinestones. He had on a super tight black sleeveless tee with DADDY’S BOY written on the front and a pair of black shorts that were either vinyl or neoprene.

    To say I was gobsmacked is an understatement. I do not kink shame, but I did take him aside and explain to him that (1) it is generally not cool to make an unprepared audience part of your kink (none of our tutors or students need to know you’re into sub/dom play) and (2) there were some people who were uncomfortable with the word “slave”. He apologized and said his partner told him to wear it all day at school and that it would not happen again. He also said he couldn’t take the collar off because he does not have the key. We did our appointment in a small room –door open– and he left campus afterwards

    My coworkers are about equally divided over whether I should have just ignored it, if I handled it appropriately, or if I should have reported him to our student discipline officer.

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think you handled it well. College kids are still learning to be adults, and it sounds like this was the first time he did anything like that. (If you could have helped him cover the collare, that would have been ideal.)

      A second time is when you talk to the student discipline officer.

      Reply ↓
    2. Time Zone Confusion*

      Wow, fascinating! I’m not sure what I would have done in that moment. I probably would have tried to ignore it, I guess. I mean, it’s not really hurting me personally. I certainly wouldn’t report it. I support if you were made uncomfortable it’s not the worst thing to speak up about it.

      Reply ↓
    3. Busy Middle Manager*

      One logical fallacy I keep seeing online is people thinking that in order to be considered liberal/accepting, they need to accept everything at all times.

      No you do not. You’re allowed to have boundaries and push back. You did the right thing. Talking it out was good. However, if it was a private tutoring session and it didn’t disrupt a class or event, no reason to get a “discipline officer” involved.

      Reply ↓
    4. Pay no attention...*

      I would have ignored it. When I first started to read the description I genuinely thought he’d lost a bet or was pledging a frat.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hobbit in a hole*

        Indeed. My first thought was that someone put him up to it as a joke or dare. Our campus is 100% commuter, lots of students in plumbing, HVAC, etc., as well as a huge healthcare division (nursing, MRI, X-ray tech, etc.) so no Greek orgs.

        If he had said it was a joke or hazing, my reaction would have been much less nuanced.

        Reply ↓
    5. WorkerDrone*

      That would have made me uncomfortable, because the “audience” is a central part to the kink. He was dressed that was specifically to be exposed to the reactions of others. I think you handled it well by speaking with him.

      I would not have reported him, though. I have seen some extremely questionable outfits on my college campus, and frankly, it was just as likely he was dressed that way because of his personal style as it was due to a kink. The only reason you knew it was kink vs. style is because you’d seen his personal style many times before. Someone who hadn’t wouldn’t have realized why he was dressed that way. I think a report goes too far.

      Reply ↓
    6. MsM*

      I might do a bit of follow-up to make sure he feels comfortable pushing back with his partner on requests that cross a line and have some resources available in case he does indicate he’s not in a safe situation, but I think your approach was good.

      Reply ↓
    7. WellRed*

      Ah gotta love it when the young ‘ins discover sex and think everyone else wants to know? I do think reporting it to the discipline officer would have been overkill.

      Reply ↓
    9. Laggy Lu*

      I think you handled this well.
      For me, I probably would have assumed he lost a bet or something, and ignored it.

      Reply ↓
  34. Formerly Ella Vader*

    I saw a job posting for a new program that I’d love to work in. But the posting is for a head of program, which would be a significant stretch for me. I don’t see postings for other roles – they might have transferred internally to start the program. Is there a way to say in the cover letter “or other vacancies/opportunities in this department”? Or do I have to just hope a real manager reads my package and thinks “no, but lets talk to this one about more junior roles”?

    Reply ↓
    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      Chances are they don’t currently have another opportunity, but it honestly couldn’t hurt. As a hiring manager when I’ve gotten interesting resumes that just were not qualified for the current opening but a possibility for a more junior role, I’ve kept them in the event an opening comes up.

      Reply ↓
    3. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      On the hiring side this isn’t something I’d be paying any attention to unless you advanced to at least a 1-1 interview. Application materials on their own…I read so many of them, and so quickly, that I would be extremely unlikely to remember that even if I saw it. If a more junior position exists, they’ll almost certainly post it, so you might as well pursue this role on the merits and if you don’t advance to an interview, just keep an eye on their postings for something more junior. Mentioning it in your cover letter kinda undercuts your argument for the role you’re applying to.

      I have had experiences where someone is SO awesome in an interview but not what we need the senior role, and I’ve gone back to them like a year or two later with a different position that better matches their skill level (I’ve done this twice). But that came from how memorable they were in the interview, and how perfectly their skill set aligned with my vision for roles that I knew we’d eventually need.

      Reply ↓
  35. Creed Bratton*

    I came here to discuss the EEOC form that some companies include in their online job applications (where they ask for race, disability status, veteran status, etc.). I find it annoying when those fields are set as “required” as that makes it seem not truly optional, even if there is an option in the drop-down menu to opt-out. However, I’m sure this is because companies find that, if they don’t make the fields required, people will simply ignore them, whereas making them required means it’ll take the same amount of effort to opt out as it does to answer. In other words, I’m sure this is a strategy to get more answers.

    The thing that I truly have a grievance with is when the question “Are you Hispanic or Latino?” is included as a separate question and when it’s a required field. I’ve also noticed that most of the time this question is included, the only options are “Yes” or “No” with no option to opt-out. I’m not an attorney but this seems legally questionable at best. So I have two questions about this:

    1. Why would they not simply include it as a possible answer with the question that asks what race/ethnicity you are? I know that it could be combined with other races but I don’t imagine it’s impossible to include that option.

    2. Why would a company essentially require me to answer this question to be able to apply for a job with them? In other words, why not allow people to opt-out like they do other questions? Is this an oversight or is there some other motive behind this?

    Looking forward to reading the responses.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      The separate hispanic/latino question is actually required by federal regulation since the 80s. They aren’t doing this on a whim.

      The opt-in machinations may just be how the software is configured. Or it may be done that way because the company got dinged by an auditor for not having enough information to prove that they aren’t discriminating in hiring.

      Reply ↓
      1. Creed Bratton*

        Okay, so why would they make an applicant answer the question instead of giving them the option to opt-out? As far as I know, these questions have to be optional. If they want to make the fields required, that’s fine, but one of the answers should be “opt-out” or an equivalent of that.

        Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      “Latino/Hispanic” is an ethnicity. The other questions are all about race.

      I am white, but I wish they would allow multiple options for race, as it’s not fair to make multiracial people choose one and ignore the rest of their heritage.

      Reply ↓
      1. Balanceofthemis*

        Some forms do have two or more races as an option, but that’s an internal decision and not required. But I agree, it should be the norm.

        Reply ↓
      2. Creed Bratton*

        I feel like I’ve seen these forms allow “mixed race,” or something similar, as an option. Then again, I’ve been opting out of this, if not ignoring it, on applications ever since I figured out it wouldn’t benefit me in any way to answer (about 10+ years ago).

        Reply ↓
    3. RaceAndEthnicity*

      The federal standards for race and ethnicity are in the process of changing; hopefully companies that misfolded their forms will take the opportunity to fix things as they do the updates.

      Reply ↓
      1. Creed Bratton*

        Yeah, I have a feeling we might see these phased out over the next few years. For the record, I don’t have an issue with these forms being included, even if I’m not in favor of having to complete them after filling out an application (often the same one over and over again in Workday, UltiPro, etc.). It’s that I can’t opt out of this particular question. It would be one thing if it was just one or two companies that I was referring to, but it seems like it’s almost the norm.

        Reply ↓
    4. Hillary*

      Legally they’re required to ask the questions and collect specific data. They’re mirroring form EEO-1. Structuring the applications this way allows them to prove they’re following the law.

      From a why not an opt out button, it’s probably around database structure. Including “I prefer not to answer” in the dropdown means you can prove that the applicant interacted with the specific question.

      The Hispanic or Latino question should also include a prefer not to answer, if it isn’t there that’s a programming error.

      Reply ↓
  36. Daisy Adair*

    I started a new job last year. Generally I get along with everyone and recently received a performance appraisal, which was very good. But, I am finding it hard to connect with my supervisor. Our conversations on the surface are fine, but can be awkward or stilted. About 50% of the time they won’t acknowledge information or updates that I send. And in fact, there have been several times when they’ll respond to someone else’s response to my email.

    The nature of my job is very much proactive decision making. One could argue that they are advocating for me to take on more ownership/responsibility in that area. But, they also have not been providing direction in what they want me to take ownership of. Over the past year, I’ve tried to establish my own processes that would help me identify how they prefer to receive or communicate direction or information. I’ve gently inquired about their own best practices and there are moments where they will give me conflicting advice. it’s almost as though their lack of response or direction is meant to be a response or a direction, to do what I think is best or what I’ve proposed. But there’s part of me that thinks it’s their way of avoiding taking responsibility if something should not work out.

    All of this wondering on my part is mostly pre-emptive. Nothing terrible has happened. The job is fine. It’s not my favorite, but it’s not a bad gig. But I also recognize that this is not how I work best. I prefer to have a more collaborative approach to the work I do to avoid confusion, miscommunication or problems — which is not uncommon in my line of work. I suppose the question I have is whether I need to adjust my own expectations or if this management style is a mismatch and I should actively look for something that’s more in line with what I’d like to accomplish.

    Reply ↓
  37. AnotherSarah*

    I’ve seen questions that touch on this but nothing that’s exactly the same situation, and I’m curious for thoughts and experiences. I know there are major downsides to “unlimited PTO” and I’m just trying to figure out what this would look like in practice. This may be moot anyhow since I just applied for this job yesterday–

    A small company is hiring someone for a ft (40 hours) fully-remote position. On the info page, it states that everyone works core hours (I assume partly because everyone is remote and spread across the country) and outside of that, it’s up to individuals how to get to the 40 hours. There’s also unlimited PTO.

    I don’t really know what this might mean in practice. In terms of the core hours, I’m guessing that it means I’d have a more or less consistent week-to-week schedule, but 1) it could be something where I end at 3 every day but then log in after my kids are asleep, but could be different on different days depending on their activities and 2) if I have a non-recurring thing come up, I can flex the time and make it up later (that day or week) rather than taking a small number of hours of PTO. I’m also hoping that since it’s salaried, they wouldn’t nickel and dime on hours, and that a 38-hour hour week wouldn’t be occasion for scrutiny unless my work wasn’t getting done at the required level, but who knows.

    I guess I can’t quite figure out where the unlimited PTO comes in. For context, I have a job now with no set PTO–I’m a professor and outside of time I need to be in class or meetings, my time is my own. I work a bunch but there are random days, even during the semester, that I take off to get this and that done (fun or life maintenance). But for a “regular” job, I don’t know what it means. Does it seem likely that PTO is used for vacations and staycations, where I’d be taking at least one but maybe ten or fifteen full days off? Or do people also use that “unlimited PTO” to, say, always work a half day on Friday? (Or is that part of the flexible schedule?)

    I know it’s very dependent on workplace, but if your company has a similar setup, I’d be curious to know. Remote plus flexible plus unlimited PTO sounds actually quite similar to being a professor (minus the potentially long summer break, but I don’t really take more than 2-3 weeks in summer anyhow) but I can’t be sure!

    Reply ↓
    1. EMP*

      In my experience with “unlimited” PTO, it was used for vacations/staycations/sometimes Dr’s appointments or random days off. It was always subject to manager’s approval, and for example, taking a half day every Friday with “PTO” would not have been acceptable. We had someone let go in part for abusing the unlimited PTO policy and after that management clarified it was “flexible” PTO not unlimited (eyeroll). We also had a guideline of not requesting more than 2 weeks off at one time, although people did take longer vacations with a lot of notice.

      I think your understanding of the core hours is right, although office culture could come into play as well in terms of which hours you’re expected to be responsive, and they may have set “core hours” you need to be working during as well.

      Reply ↓
      1. AnotherSarah*

        Thanks! Yes, I think the core hours are set across the board (something like 11-4 Eastern, 8-1 Pacific), but this all makes sense.

        Reply ↓
    2. Alex*

      I think this can be really workplace dependent. In some workplaces, it may mean “You can theoretically take as much PTO as you want, as long as work needs allow” but then have a situation where work needs never allow. That is the downside–you rely a lot more on the culture of the workplace in terms of how much vacation time you can take, as opposed to a hard number of days you are allowed. So it could be great, or it could be very limiting.

      In a healthy workplace culture, one would hope that it would work something like what you describe–you are available for meetings, check ins, questions, etc., during set hours, and then it is up to you to get your work done on your own schedule outside of that time, and as long as you are getting your work done, no one really cares. PTO would be used for actual days away–going on a trip, sick in bed, whatever.

      Reply ↓
    3. TimeOffNorms*

      Legally, the main difference us that you don’t get paid for unused vacation time when you leave.

      Practically, it depends a lot on the company. It can mean you get jo vacation because you need sick time. It can mean you get no vacation because you have no leverage over your boss since you don’t have days about to expire or max out. It can mean you never get to take time off because you’re too busy and it doesn’t get approved. Or it can mean you have some flexibility around when you take time.

      Please note that the flexible schedule is a completely different policy from the unlimited time off, although they can intersect. In most places you are expected to work at least X hours or take some form of time off (X is often 40 hours but can be 37.5 or 35 or something else). If you gave flexible schedules it doesn’t matter when you work those hours. Flexible with core usually means you need to take time off if not working during core hours even if you meet the X threshold. But all of thus varies a lot.

      Reply ↓
    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I work in a job that is full-time remote with unlimited PTO. We don’t have core hours but I am generally expected to be available from 8:30am to 5:30pm or so. I can set my own schedule so I block off time for appointments (up to 2 hours) and no one cares. I only “make up” time when I feel like I need to, like if a project is due and I don’t get it done before I need to take my dog to the vet, so I work on it when I get home. My partner just RTO’d and I drive him to the train, so I block off that time every day (and I’m open about why). I’m available for internal calls during that time and I make that clear on my calendar.

      No one here uses PTO to alter their general schedule. We would find that pretty odd. If someone needs a more flexible schedule, like every Friday afternoon off for example, they would discuss it with their manager and make it a regular part of their schedule. I use PTO for vacations, sick time, and one-off days– basically any day where I don’t want to be expected to check in. Generally these are planned unless it’s a sick day (which I have not yet taken completely since starting here, I need to do that), but sometimes it’s Monday and I could really use Friday off and I have no meetings scheduled so I take it (and give my boss a heads-up). And here, any PTO longer than 2 consecutive weeks requires special approval (I don’t know anyone who hasn’t gotten it).

      You can always ask about how unlimited PTO works during the interview. Every company has its quirks and unique policies.

      Reply ↓
      1. AnotherSarah*

        Thank you, this is so helpful! (And sounds very good, and like what I was envisioning.) But I’ll of course ask.

        Reply ↓
    5. Laggy Lu*

      In my experience at 2 different orgs, “core hours” are set times that everyone, regardless of where you are, work, and a certain amount of your weekly hours have to include those core hours. So at my last job, our core hours were 10:30 am to 5:30 pm eastern, and you had to work at least 70% of your hours in those times (I can’t remember if it was weekly or per pay period).
      Unlimited PTO is for vacation, sick time, or any time you can’t “make up” that time within the pay period. Since you have a flexible schedule, you should be able to cover things like doctor appointments, or errands that have to happen during work days. So you will only need to PTO for longer times away from work. Note, that unlimited PTO doesn’t accrue and so also doesn’t pay out once you leave the company.

      Reply ↓
  38. New Fed*

    I’m looking to pursue professional development/education generally in finance/accounting, and curious if readers have any suggestions.

    My background has been in nonprofits/government and I’ve done everything from grants admin to program development to education/communications to fundraising. I have built budgets and had other fiscal duties like reporting, drawing down funds, monitoring budgets, but truly no formal training. I feel like I have an aptitude for financial management, and think it might be the best bang for my buck in terms of education/training. I know I probably won’t be getting a CFO position, but some training could put me in a better position for other leadership/management roles that have a fiscal component, or grant officer type positions which I’d be really interested in.
    Any suggestions on what to pursue? Should I learn quickbooks? Take a basic accounting course? Pursue a certification?

    Reply ↓
    1. Left Turn at Albuquerque*

      You might look into taking a few CPE courses to get your feet wet. CPAs are required to complete a set number of CPE hours to be able to renew their licenses so there are a LOT to choose from out there. I’m hesitant to include a link in case this ends up in the spam filter, but NASBA (National Association of State Boards of Accountancy) has some useful resources under the Education tab on their website.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hillary*

      Do you feel like you have the fundamentals already? For instance do you know how to read a p&l or do cost accounting?

      If no, basic finance classes at your local community college or online might be the way to start. The three required classes when I did my MBA were Financial Management, Financial Accounting, and Cost Accounting. Although it looks like Cost Accounting has been replaced in the core requirements since I graduated. Regardless, those three areas will give you a broad overview of finance and help you figure out what you want to do.

      If yes, really dig into the requirements of roles you’re interested in. A lot of times experience is enough, are there projects you can volunteer for to get more finance on your resume?

      I wouldn’t bother with quickbooks. That kind of hands-on work is the first thing to be delegated – I’m really looking forward to when I can afford a bookkeeper instead of doing it myself.

      Reply ↓
  39. Merry go round and round*

    Some good new for me but I’m hoping to cool some fears i have:

    I am leaving my job which I’ve had for 14 years. I was offered and have accepted a position working in the library of a state college. Anyone who watches the news might understand why I am a little nervous.

    With all the various cuts to funding and general attacks on knowledge, can I lose this job before I even get to start, would they have offered it if that can happen? As low man on the union totem pole, I assume it will be last in first out if something were to happen, and I’m hoping the people in the field might have some insight into the possibilities of how the next few years play out.

    In my mind there’s no scenario where I don’t leave, but in case you’re wondering I have always wanted this, the opportunity is rare for someone like me (no college education) and with all the cuts there is very little likelyhood I would get this opportunity again as I would be competing with a lot more very competent people for any future positions, my current job has been at a boiling point for a long time.

    Reply ↓
    1. AnotherSarah*

      I’m not in university libraries but my spouse is, and we’re both union members at the same state university. I think you’re right to be thinking about this but I don’t think you need to panic. (Or actually–don’t panic, it’s not helpful. But it’s good that you’ve got this on your radar.) Two things–

      1) being union helps! A lot. You can talk to your new union rep in confidence, if you want more details. I’m sure they’ve been talking about things like this. For us (unionized state university), union and admin have to work together to figure out cuts. Right now for us, that means empty positions won’t be backfilled except in extraordinary circumstances, and redundant positions are being eliminated. If you were just hired, I’d doubt you’re in danger of being considered redundant. The union process will also slow things down, a lot, which helps. Do talk to your rep and get a sense of things–it’s fine to say that you’re nervous as the most recent hire! They’ll get it.
      2) in terms of the issue of state versus private–it really depends on your state and it’s not really red v blue. If your university is not on the big list now, the major issues are state budget and its allocation, attitudes toward higher ed, things like that. I’m in a blue blue state but the state legislature has little interest in higher ed so it doesn’t really matter. (It might matter if your position is specifically DEI-aligned, though, and you’re in Ohio or Florida or….) The other big one is student loans and thus, tuition revenue. Your university will have a plan for that, and the plan might not be good, but I doubt the plan will immediately affect you. Honestly, if you aren’t at an R1, I think you’re in a better position than if you are, because less-expensive Directional State Colleges are going to become more desirable for students who might otherwise have wanted to go to Big Flagship University.

      Reply ↓
    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      So, maybe I’m a bad example, because when I took my job, the Governor was threatening to shut down the entire university system, including the library where I was moving 3K miles to work. He backed down, but man… that was a stressful few months.

      But a friend of mine gave me two pieces of good advice at the time, which I will pass along to you, “In higher education, there’s always a threat. Sometimes that threat is State Government, sometimes that threat is Federal, if that’s going to keep you up too much at night, don’t work in Higher Ed.”

      Her other piece of advice was, “No one gets anywhere by standing still.”

      Long story short, I’m still working at this library two promotions later. And while if we lose federal funding, our Uni will shut down, I am continuing to stay where I am. I am putting more in savings than I used too, but honestly, I am not going to let the mess that is the current situation keep me from doing a job I believe matters in a place I love working with good people. So, I can’t tell you how to calculate that decision.

      Reply ↓
  40. Illogical*

    Looking for a sanity check. I have a fairly common firstName lastName combo that is also shared by a celebrity. Let’s say Will Smith. Obviously I can never get my name on any service, so I just took to appending a neutral number to my name. Unfortunately, the neutral number I chose decades ago is 47.

    No one’s going to be making (erroneous) assumptions about my politics because of this, right? I don’t need to go around changing my LinkedIn and email and the like, right? Separate from it being a logistical pain, after so many years that number is almost part of my identity and I don’t want to cede it to jerks.

    Thoughts?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I have an 88 in one of my social media handles. It’s the year I graduated from college, not a Nazi reference. Nobody has ever mentioned it.

      I think you’re fine.

      Reply ↓
      2. EMP*

        I’ve also seen 88s because it’s a common birth year for people who were making internet handles when goth_chick_1990 wasn’t a crazy username
        I wouldn’t have thought 47 was political until you said something, honestly, and I don’t think most people will be thinking that way when they’re using linkedin.

        Reply ↓
    2. Merry go round and round*

      There are definitely people that will make that possible leap, but I don’t think its worth changing all your contact info over. If it were me, I’d change my email signature to include a quote that resonates with me and reflect that I lean in the opposite direction.

      Reply ↓
    3. Pay no attention...*

      I think that if you have such a common name in your email, many people will simply assume that when you went to register the account, there were 46 other Will Smiths already registered so you were assigned or took the next number — I wouldn’t think it’s a political reference myself. Now if you had a really unique name and or non-name words in your email handle along with a 47, maaaaaybeeeeee I might wonder.

      Reply ↓
    4. Parakeet*

      If anything I would assume from a 47 that you were a Star Trek fan. The meaning you’re worried about would not have occurred to me.

      Reply ↓
  41. Justin*

    Vocab creep –

    I work in professional development/training and I am very clear that what I mean by that is structured programming with outcomes, assessments (not always tests, could be a presentation), rubrics, etc. That doesn’t mean they’re cookie-cutter, just that there’s a spine and scaffolding etc.

    I’ve been a teacher in some capacity for 17 years (jesus), have two degrees in education (in addition to a bachelor’s in English).

    So I know what I’m talking about.

    Yet I have noticed that people with less such expertise will use “Training” to mean all sorts of things that it definitely is not.

    I get invited to virtual “trainings” sometimes, and it’s literally just information about a new program that exists.

    Or things that are just panels, just Q and A, being called training.

    These other things are valuable and can contribute to knowledge growth, but there’s no, you know, curriculum, pedagogy, instructional design, what have you, so they’re really adjacent things. And I think this contributes to the extremely varied quality of “trainings,” because not only are some not really instructionally useful, but because there are so many that aren’t great, these other formats are what some people have come to expect, so when you’re like, okay, we’re going to practice, sometimes people respond with, WHAT IS THIS, SCHOOL? (basically). Which, uh, yes? (And a lot of people disliked school, understandably. But it wasn’t the fact that there was a structure at all that is the issue. And before someone brings it up, I have ADHD and struggled to focus in school, I get it! I make our trainings in such a way that I’m always thinking of how hard it is for ME to stay interested and plan as if someone in the group needs my level of support.)

    Anyway, to make it a question. What is some vocabulary creep in your field of expertise that you feel harms either your work or your field or both?

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      Well this is tangential but my partner does research in the alternative energies field. Real, peer-reviewed research with serious implications. He gets so angry at all these people who say, “I did my research and decided that the earth is only 10,000 years old”. Come to find out the “research” was on their church’s website, FFS. Or just on google.

      Reply ↓
      1. Justin*

        Yes, that’s really best described as “I briefly looked it up.”

        Similarly, I hate people saying “Anecdotes aren’t data,” and, they sure are! But they’re not PREDICTIVE, they’re useful in crafting a narrative.

        Having a doctorate is mostly being annoyed and biting my tongue, lol.

        Reply ↓
    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’m an electrical engineer who does a lot of software, security, and networking. The amount of creep and appropriation by the lay public is unbelievable and monotonically approaches infinity.

      But here’s why it doesn’t bother me too much — it’s almost instantly clear to my colleagues and I when somebody uses a word in a work situation but doesn’t really know what it means (cue the Princess Bride). So that’s a great way to figure out the people who I need to engage with differently; I will immediately switch to different terminology, do a lot of “then a whole bunch of things happen under the covers that we don’t need to discuss the details about”, etc.

      When it gets into pop culture (with a lot of dramatic license and hand-waiving by the writers and art directors), which then leads to general misunderstanding and conspiracy theories in the wider public (hackers can use your thermostat to see what laundry detergent you use!1!!1!), that’s something else. I can address the misunderstandings one-on-one as I have time and need, speaking from a position of authority. But if it’s a down-the-rabbit-hole true believer, I just shrug and drop it; you can’t fix those people.

      Reply ↓
    3. Training*

      Well, in corporate settings training can have many meanings. It’s up to you to pick a place that aligns with your views of what is/is not training if it’s important to you. Most people are happy if any form of training is available because it’s been going the way of the dodo and they’re just not going to be as ideologically pure.

      Reply ↓
  42. foureyedlibrarian*

    How have you asked about a raise? Our team is down from a number between 6 and 10 to only 2. Thus I am doing the work of at least three people but only getting paid the same amount as before. Do I need a job offer from somewhere else to negotiate or am I in a position where I could ask for more money regardless?

    Reply ↓
    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I would absolutely ask for a raise! If you’re doing more work than you were hired to do, than you deserve a raise. Just ask. I used some of the scripts and advice on this site when it came time to ask for mine. And I got it.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  43. RussianInTexas*

    I feel like this been answered, bit I can’t find it on the fly.
    I live in a suburb of a major city. My suburb is it’s own city of once square mile, and most people don’t even know it’s a city. Do I use my actual city name on the resume or the main metro area?

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I always use actual city. People will just look up something if they aren’t familiar with it, and pretty much everybody has been somewhere with weird jurisdictional lines. If they’re from Texas, they won’t know Cambridge vs Boston, but they understand Dallas vs Arlington.

      Reply ↓
    2. Pay no attention...*

      Hopefully you aren’t using your home address on your resume at all, so if you are just trying to describe where you are looking for work, I would use the metro area. But I would also think that listing the locations of your current and previous employers is sufficient.

      Reply ↓
    5. ThatGirl*

      Using Chicagoland as an example here, if someone wrote “Norwood Park, IL” I think most people would know that was Chicago-adjacent, even if they didn’t know where it is exactly. But if it were East Hazel Crest, “Chicago metro” or “Cook County metro” would probably be more helpful.

      (Also, if your resume has “Chicago, IL” and “Oak Lawn, IL” as company locations, it would be more obvious where you lived.)

      So I really think it depends on your area and how much people would recognize the city name as being where it is.

      Reply ↓
    6. allx*

      If you’re applying within the major city (Houston), I think using West U as the identifying city is okay. People who live in Houston are aware of West U’s city-status. But also, ditto the comment about whether there is a need to use your home address at all. If we are in fact talking about West U in this thread, then I think you need to ask yourself whether there is an advantage in telegraphing affluence, because that’s what a West University Place address does.

      Reply ↓
  44. AnotherAcademic*

    I am scheduled for a first-round zoom interview. What questions can I ask to help figure out company culture? That is probably the most important factor to me as I consider a new job.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I would hit Glassdoor, the company web page, etc first – especially to see if there are major discrepancies. I would also figure out what the general industry culture is, what you do or don’t like about it, and then ask question that hone in on this particular company.

      “I know a lot of teapot manufacturers have cyclical business patterns that sometime cause unscheduled overtime. What do you do to mitigate that?”

      Reply ↓
    2. spcepickle*

      What part of company culture is important to you?
      Did they tell you how many interview there would be? I would break up my questions asking more specific questions in later interviews. That would be my first question, can you tell me what the interview process will look like. My company hires after one virtual interview.

      For me flexibility and time off are really important. So I have asked about work schedules and flexibility around that. I love working 9 hours a day and getting every other Friday off, so I ask if that is a schedule that people have. I also ask about vacation time and how many people take all their vacation time. This tells me about work life balance in the company.
      Also as a women who’s job requires that I wear specific safety gear I have started asking what range of safety gear sizes they provide and how safety gear is paid for. This gives me a really good in sight into how they think about diversity. If a place only has one cut that comes in limited sizes I don’t want to work for them.

      Also as a hiring manager once we are to the offer stage I would totally put you in contact with people who do the same job I am hiring for, so you could talk to people about my management style and ask questions with fear of it reflecting on your chances. But I would not ask for that until you were offered the position.

      Reply ↓
  45. Likely Underpaid*

    How much more money do managers typically make than the employees they manage? I have access this information since I work with payroll, and I’m aware that my manager makes 150 – 170% more than me. Additionally, my coworker, who is also managed by the same manager, and I are doing the majority of the work in our department. We do many of the job responsibilities that should be done by our manager. She makes more than both of our salaries combined. Is it common for managers to make significantly more money that the employees they are managing?

    Reply ↓
    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I’m two steps more senior than my highest-level direct report and six steps higher than my lowest-level direct report (I manage entry level-middle managers). I’ve got almost 15 years’ experience in my field, the highest-level DR has 7 years, and the entry-level has less than one year.

      I make 18% more than the highest-level DR and about 2x the entry-level. Having been with this company for 5+ years I also get 5 days’ more vacation time than the under-5-yrs folks (everyone starts with 20).

      I think we’re a bit flatter at more senior levels than is typical – our payscale includes rapid salary growth from entry level to middle management and then flattens out.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hiring Mgr*

      I don’t know if there’s a typical answer to that question. In sales for example, it’s not uncommon for an employee to earn more than their mgr (commissions).

      Reply ↓
    3. spcepickle*

      I make about 20% more than my first line manager, I mange the whole team and I have an assistant manager between us. My first line managers make just over 10% more then our average mid range engineers. I think my boss makes maybe 10% more than I do (one reason I never bother going for a promotion).
      Basic Engineer – $91k / year
      Project Manager (first line people manager) – $100k/year
      Me managing the whole team and all the project – $120/year

      BUT my team is all eligible for overtime (at time and half) and because of the work we do many of the basic engineers work nights in the summer which is a $2/hr premium. I am standard exempt, so no overtime, no night premium. All summer when we are busy my team will make at least as much if not more than me.

      Reply ↓
    4. Parenthesis Guy*

      Depends on the manager level vs the employee level. For example, if it’s a one-grade difference between a manager and employees, then you wouldn’t expect that big of a difference. But if it’s three or four grades… something like that could happen.

      The question you need to ask yourself is what would happen if your manager left. Would they promote one of you to the position or would they hire outside the company? If they wouldn’t consider you for her job, this might be a case where you’re multiple grades below your boss, and such a difference in salary is more likely to happen.

      Although, 150 to 170 percent is drastic even for a three grade difference.

      Reply ↓
  46. Letherebelight*

    Would you say something or let it go? Partly a vent, as I’m leaning towards “just let it go” especially in this economy and job market but…

    I’m a salaried exempt employee and 100% remote worker. We don’t clock in or out, and only track PTO in terms of timesheets. *Some* people on our team do clock in and out and are hourly or non-exempt.

    Of course and naturally the expectation is 8 hours of work a day. No issues there. Makes sense, although I personally and privately disagree that this is needed. But it’s a standard across every office I’ve worked at, so no surprise.

    My issue is that my boss recently mentioned in a team meeting that he has access to reports that indicate some people aren’t putting in 8 hours/7.5 hours of straight work a day–the implication being that he’s specifically looking for constant productivity or action status for 7.5 hours a day, every day, all week. He noted he’s flexible with appointments and start/end times (which is true to a point) but this is a warning. He also brought up admin work with the implication that if we need to “fill” 7.5 hours. He’s also previously asked for a “shift”, meaning a commitment to a consistent start and end time per day, which is edging towards micromanagement to me.

    This really left a sour taste in my mouth in two ways:

    I’ve occasionally worked more than 8 hours and in a few cases, popped onto the computer on weekends to take care of things. This “reminder” makes me want to immediately cease that.
    It grates on me that instead of “get the assigned work done” it’s butts in seats hourly to the point that reports are being pulled to see who is not working that 2 hours or whatever. It reminds me of the boss who out of nowhere accused me of clock-watching when I was logging out right on time to catch a bus, completely overlooking that I was often skipping lunch and breaks and logging in early.

    This is the scenario I don’t want as a salaried employee. I don’t want to have to “kill time” when my work is at a stopping point and I’m waiting for something from others because I “have” to put in my 7.5 hours a day regardless of the reality. I want to be trusted as an adult with 15 years of work experience that occasionally I’ll do 9 hours, other times 6.

    I doubt there’s a way to even bring this up without attracting unwanted attention to myself or seem like a “problem” employee but is there a way?

    Reply ↓
    1. Balanceofthemis*

      I would definitely stop working on weekends regardless. Unfortunately, I don’t see a way to push back without drawing attention to yourself. It’s possible that this was a ham handed way of calling out people who are consistently logging off early, and are not available when something comes up, and using the excuse that their work was done.

      You could just keep doing what you’ve been doing and see how it goes. If you are available when work needs to be done, you shouldn’t need to show 7.5 hours of consistent productivity, that’s not realistic.

      Reply ↓
      2. Letherebelight*

        I assume Teams status or Outlook activity reports, but it’s not clear. The payroll system was mentioned, but I’m not sure how that could track anything other than PTO and log in and out. I sort of assumed the warning was for the hourly people, perhaps they’re sort of…shaving hours here and there that started off as 15 minutes leaving early for traffic and is now hours and hours every month type thing. Maybe?

        Reply ↓
  47. pinkjar*

    This JUST happened, so I’m glad it’s the Friday open thread!
    I am pregnant, and most coworkers know my family baby shower is Sunday. A coworker with whom I work closely just handed me $100 as a gift for the shower. It is not unusual at all to gift money or things for babies and weddings, but this feels a little different. This particular coworker is an older gentleman, and earlier in the year, he was continually attempting to buy me things like lunch and gifts. It was very uncomfortable, and I quickly decided to sit down with my boss, who promptly put a stop to it. I really, truly don’t think there was any bad intent – definitely more of a generational difference and him knowing that I am very underpaid. But it still made me quite uncomfortable. This money, though, is explicitly for the baby shower, and I felt too weird to refuse it when I had four other large gifts sitting on my desk. Should I have refused? Should I mention it to my boss? Again, this was explicitly for the baby shower, and this is very much a gift-giving office.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not your typical admin*

      For a specific thing like a baby shower I would let it be, especially if he was respectful and stopped the other gift giving. Congratulations on your little one!!

      Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      If others also gave you gifts it’s fine to accept it. But I want to add for future reference: there no such thing as “generational” gift giving between and older gentleman and a younger woman. It made you uncomfortable because it’s inappropriate.

      Reply ↓
    3. Roland*

      I don’t think I would mention it to your boss unless you feel he is “escalating” to his previous everyday behavior. I understand that it made you uncomfortable due to the history, no judgement there! But it’s not necessarily a sign of anything other than him thinking “baby shower = gift”, and maybe even “I don’t want to look like I’m retaliating in any way” due to your office being a gift-y office. If it does become the start of a new pattern then you could mention it at that point.

      Mazal tov!

      Reply ↓
  48. Parasitoids Need Love Too*

    I escaped an incredibly toxic work situation and have been in my new, functional (ish, we’re federal in the USA) job for four months. While my new boss is incredibly competent and a great manager, I’m still struggling to recalibrate to normal workplace norms.

    For those of you who’ve escaped bad working situations, how long did it take you to readjust to functional norms? I second guess myself ALL the time, looking for my boss to proofread very normal emails and then struggling to include him in other things because of how my last two workplaces functioned.

    Thank you!

    Reply ↓
    1. FISH*

      It took me about six months to be able to pretend to be a normal person (and able to recognize some of the “I don’t need him to check this, this is fine” vs “actually another set of eyes on this is reasonable and necessary”) and about a year before I wasn’t over thinking every step to make sure I wasn’t bringing the unnecessary behavior up. There are a few points even two plus years that still trip me up, but I would say that’s like once every two months and not constant.

      You’ve got this. Good luck.

      Reply ↓
      1. Parasitoids Need Love Too*

        Thank you! That means a lot. And it is so nice to hear that my recovery timeline is reasonable. Part of me feels like I should be able to switch off my coping mechanisms, but I also recognize that that’s unreasonable.

        Reply ↓
    2. Hillary*

      It took more than a year to really feel like myself again. My boss would call me and ask me to come to his office and I’d freak out inside. And every time he wanted help with excel. Eventually I internalized what I understood intellectually and my emotions caught up with reality.

      The process stinks – please try to be kind to yourself.

      Reply ↓
  49. Sadge*

    Just a little commiseration thread in case anyone else is currently grieving and trying to be normal at work. I lost a close relative on Tuesday and managed exactly 1.5 days of “take all the time you need” before work came crowding back in, so it’s intermittent crying while working for the second day in a row.

    Reply ↓
    1. Parasitoids Need Love Too*

      I’m sending you lots and lots of virtual support. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I hope you can get the rest and grieving time you need.

      Reply ↓
    3. Not That Jane*

      Oof. No advice, just commiseration as I am about to be here (close relative is terminally ill). I’m considering working with my dr to take a short medical leave.

      Reply ↓
  50. The Ginger Ginger*

    I don’t really know how to manage normal life right now. Particularly work. How are people managing to drag themselves into work and performing well enough to stay employed at the moment when it feels like we’re watching the death of democracy in real time? I feel like more and more of my brain is being taken over by fear. I’m not even allowing myself to just fire hose current events, and it’s still bad!

    Living in the US feels like a daily tidal wave of new horrors. I’m incredibly worried about job security in what appears to be an inevitable recession. I have no trust in institutions right now – they’re either being actively attacked or actively doing the attacking. And I’m trying to figure out how to help/push for change/generally get myself out of bed in the morning.

    How do you manage working with depression that isn’t just brain chemistry, but is in fact, a totally reasonable response to the world?

    Reply ↓
    1. Lemons*

      You need to disconnect from news/social media when it’s interfering with your life like this. Spend your time taking steps to make yourself feel more prepared for any horrors that may come, whatever that means for you.

      But also, notice that there’s a lot of protests and good things happening that are not being covered by the media at all.

      Reply ↓
    2. tabloidtainted*

      Mostly by becoming disillusioned by this country far, far earlier than this year. Essentially—it takes time to get through those feelings and come out the other side.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      Read the Captain Awkward post #450: How to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed. (I’ll link in a follow-up comment.) I think it works for state-of-the-world depression as well as brain chemistry depression.

      I hope this doesn’t come off as too “sunshine-and-rainbows,” but it might also help to remember the following things:

      – Most* people are not in any immediate, physical danger from these changes. If “most” includes you, remember that you are not in any immediate, physical danger from these changes.

      – During a recession, the unemployment rate goes up, but most people still have jobs. A 10% unemployment rate means that 90% of workers still have jobs. They may not be good jobs and the unemployment rate just counts “workers” not “people,” so sometimes the state of things is worse than the numbers that get reported. But it’s helpful to remember that there’s a big different between a recession and “no jobs exist for anyone.”

      *Some people are being immediately and negatively affected, and I don’t mean to downplay that. I do also worry a bit about changes being made now that may have negative consequences down the line. But as someone who isn’t in imminent danger “I have food and shelter and a job” works for me to get myself out of bed in the morning.

      Reply ↓
    4. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      Put your phone down. The people that I know who are like this are addicted to their phones and are getting sucked in by bizarre left-wing conspiracy theories. My MIL is like this. She’s in the midst of a nervous breakdown because she’s convinced martial law is going to be declared and “they” are going to start shooting people in the streets.

      Not saying things aren’t bad. They are. But remember, jobs have never been secure in the US. We have always been a country that is hostile to workers. Focus on yourself and your friends and your family.

      Reply ↓
    5. WorkerDrone*

      I personally just have to disconnect. I check the news briefly in the mornings – I literally set a timer, no more than 10 minutes, and then I move on and I refuse to engage with politics.

      Right now, I have no ability to do anything about any of this. Focusing on all of *gestures wildly* this does absolutely nothing but make me more anxious and worried. If there IS something useful I can do, great, that changes the equation and I will focus in more on those areas I think I can help with. Otherwise, I’m drastically limiting my engagement with screens (news, blogs, etc) and doing my best to maximize my engagement with daily life.

      Life will bring me enough sorrow along the way. I’m not going to deliberately drown myself in it before I need to when it’s neither useful nor helpful, and right now, being plugged in to the 24/7 news cycle is deliberately drowning myself.

      Reply ↓
    6. EMP*

      I literally just re-started therapy in part because of spirals like this

      Starting to practice meditation sounds corny but is actually helping. I am assuming here that you aren’t in immediate danger to the point of taking actionable steps but rather, you’re having a lot of thoughts about stuff that’s bad that it’s making you feel bad. The meditation helps separate “these are thoughts that I’m having” from the feelings of something actually happening to you right now.

      Focusing on what you can control can also help a lot. It doesn’t even have to be overtly political, though you can go that way if you want to – there are a lot of groups both local and national who are organizing. Do you have a green space (park, pond, conservation land) nearby that has a volunteer group you want to join? I have pledged to join the biannual cleanup day for ours next month. Does your library have a reading group that sounds interesting? I have found identifying the real, tangible, hyper local (like, within blocks of my house) opportunities helps me move forward.

      This is not to dismiss the problems we are facing, but it’s also not actually benefiting anyone or anything to dwell on them in the privacy of your own head. Good luck, and know that you aren’t alone in your feelings.

      Reply ↓
    7. A*

      It might help to think a bit smaller. An account I follow says “do for one person what you want to do for everybody.” What this means is that you find people in your community who are making the chances you want to see and help them.

      You probably can’t change immigration policy. Can you find a refugee non-profit in your area and donate money or time? That is but one example.

      Reply ↓
    8. The Ginger Ginger*

      I’m actually already limiting social media, finding charities to get involved with locally, trying to improve my sleep health (very hard), and getting back into therapy. All of that is happening, but all of that feels more important than WORK at the moment. That’s my real struggle. I’m so disengaged and listless about my super unimportant job right now. I mean, I need the money so it is critical in that sense, but the content of the work is seeming so unimportant in light of everything else, I just am having so much trouble engaging with it at all.

      Reply ↓
      1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

        yeah, me tooooo. My job is adjacent to what’s going on in politics so I can’t escape it during my work hours, but it’s also unlikely that my company can be effective at doing anything we’re supposed to be doing in this context, so the pointlessness is hitting hard.

        I’ve found solace in highly task-oriented to-do lists. I can stay focused for 2-3 tasks before I stop giving a shit for an hour or so. Also giving myself permission to be at like, 75% at best right now. Separating out “business-critical” work from “nice to have” work and not worrying about all the “nice to have’s” not getting done. Connecting with colleagues around shared purpose (even if that purpose is just “we want this presentation to go really well next week). Giving lotsssss of positive feedback to coworkers, looking for small ways to lift up your peers’ achievements.

        Reply ↓
      2. Hillary*

        You have to put on your own oxygen mask first. I’m glad you’re getting back into therapy. If you’re on meds it might be worth a conversation with your prescriber about if things are still the right fit.

        I try to focus on what’s in front of me and what can I control. I can’t personally fix the world, but I can volunteer. I know what I need to do for my business in March, April, and May, and I’m trying to not think about June or July yet.

        Are you spending time with your friends and loved ones? A lot of us lost our social habits during the pandemic (I certainly did) and we need to actively, intentionally rebuild our communities.

        Reply ↓
        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Oh I bumped the med dosage about 5 weeks ago, and certainly that helps, but you really can’t medicate away worry that is REAL. Meds are for when your brain is giving you signals that are not based on reality.

          Reply ↓
    9. Tea Monk*

      No clue. Even with less social media/ news ( I know people will suggest this to you as if the downfall of America is a show you’re watching and you don’t like) I feel kinda numb and going through the motions

      Reply ↓
      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        EXACTLY! I don’t really know how to talk to people who want me to not worry and focus on me, since I’ll (probably????) be fine. Like it’s some sort of conspiracy theory that in just 2 months this administration has started a trade war with our closest and long time allies (breaking a trade deal THIS ADMIN originally brokered!), or has given unprecedented access to unelected cowboys. When we’re using the same act that gave us shameful WWII internment camps to deport people without due process and disappearing them into who knows where. When we’re trying to change the legal status of a huge swathe of US citizens so they can also be deported (which is how the Nazis behaved with the Jews). Or pulled funding for critical global health efforts like tuberculosis treatment and HIV prevention that will result in millions of unnecessary deaths. Like it shouldn’t concern me to watch the rights of trans people, minorities, women, children, disabled people, everyone but white Christian cis-men be rolled back, undoing decades of incredibly difficult work and progress, because at least it ain’t me????

        I’m not really interested in only worrying about myself because at least I’m not the one suffering. I categorically refute the opinion that America’s problem is empathy. Empathy is our strength, and I am not going to just comply with this absolute horse shit in advance just so I can stay comfortable for a few days longer than my neighbors who are legitimately scared right now.

        But this is also why I don’t know how to care about your stupid marketing campaign advertising things that no one needs right now!

        Reply ↓
  51. RhubarbCrumble*

    I am in the UK and being made redundant. They started the individual consultation this week. I won’t lose the role until August.

    Has anyone been through this? Any suggestions of things to bring up or ask about etc.? I will hit 8 years in June will they calculate it for 7 or 8 years?

    My work usually gives raises in April each year. Should I still expect one? And should my redundancy pay be at the new rate if I do get it or at my current salary?

    sorry I have never had this happen and am so nervous now. I have a consultation meeting next week and don’t know what to do.

    Reply ↓
  52. HonorBox*

    ARGH. Just a vent on a Friday. Long story short, I’m taking over running operations of a partner organization to my workplace. I need to hire someone relatively quickly for sales, and while it isn’t difficult sales, having some background in the industry would help tremendously. I’d been talking to someone who had interest and has experience with this kind of sales, and they just let me know that they’re planning to stay at their present workplace. So on top of running operations, I’ll also be doing some selling it sounds like. Dang it. Not the way I wanted to go into the weekend…

    Reply ↓
  53. FISH*

    I attended a lunch meeting yesterday where after we finished eating different groups gave quick updates about their section. This is a semi regular reoccurring meeting but sufficient time passes between meetings for the updates to be necessary.

    As usual it went long, ten minutes over and we weren’t done. There was only one section left to go but the meeting organizer told people that if they had other obligations to get to they could go. A group of about four did, but they were still in the back of the room by the food and talking loudly enough to be disruptive as the last group tried to present.

    The presenter, who is Asian American but English is not his first language, called them out for being loud — by getting louder and saying “if the people in the back would shut up!” So not professional —but not unreasonable. However the people in the back got offended and one of them said “maybe if we could understand you! Speak English!” And the presenter and he shared a few more words. This was said in a faux joking way but struck me as deeply problematic.

    I work in a different building than these two and I think they are normally friendly — however, I’m still uncomfortable and unsure what my course of action should be. I’m unclear if it was joking or not, which means it wasn’t a very good joke, but I also don’t want the presenter to have to deal with scrutiny. I am waffling between going to HR or trying to talk to the presenter. But it wasn’t my meeting and I don’t have a leadership role and have been here less long than everyone else.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. EMP*

      > am waffling between going to HR or trying to talk to the presenter.

      I would talk to the heckler! That’s such an inappropriate thing to say to someone.

      Reply ↓
    2. Chauncy Gardener*

      Oh my. That is so uncool on so many levels. The people who were leaving should have GTFO of the room as fast and as quietly as possible. And the heckler should be reprimanded by HR.
      Geez!

      Reply ↓
  54. RD*

    If you work a 12 month FT (40 hour a week) job, how many days off do you think is a reasonable and ideal amount of PTO? Not including holidays, but inclusive of any use of time (vacation, personal sick leave etc.)

    Reply ↓
    4. A*

      I have a bit of an annoying follow up question. Does “holidays” mean the major holidays like Christmas, 4th of July? Or all federal government holidays? If it’s all federal government holidays then I would say reasonable is 18 days. If it’s just major holidays than reasonable is 21 days. Ideal is way more, obviously.

      But what I really like is for PTO to be measured by hours and not days. In which case my calculations would be:

      Reasonable: 150 hours (I said 18 days above, this is a nice round number and I like that).

      Ideal: 200 hours.

      Reply ↓
    5. WantonSeedStitch*

      My workplace offers 15 days of vacation for the first year of employment, increasing to 20 days for your second year (accrued monthly). Starting on your tenth year of service, every five years, you get an additional five vacation days that are a separate one-time pot from your yearly vacation accrual, and which need to be taken some time before that five year period is up. You can roll over regular vacation days up to 40. We get 20 days of sick time upon hire, and after the first year, you accrue one day of sick time per month. You can roll over sick time up to a max of 132 days (basically, this means for someone who’s not often sick and has been here for a long time, if you have to go out on FMLA, you can get paid at your normal rate for most or all of it–that’s the intention behind the huge max).

      Reply ↓
    7. spcepickle*

      I want at least 15 days of vacation time AND at least 12 days of sick time a year. And they all need to rollover. Where I work now you can roll over your sick time forever but it does not cash out when you leave. If you retire they will buy out sick time at 25% into a fund that you can use for health related expenses.
      You can also save up to 240 vacation hours, if you have more than that you just stop accruing until you take time off. They do payout your vacation time when you leave.
      We also get 11 paid holidays and a personal leave day.
      It took me a while to get use to having separate buckets for sick and vacation time. I have come to the conclusion that it makes things fairer for people who need more sick time because of life. As someone is lucky to be pretty healthy and who does not care give for anyone I have a large pool of sick time. I see it as a bit of extra retirement savings, and we have a shared leave pool at work that I regularly donate too. But I also respect people who might have zero sick time saved also should get to take planned vacations even if they are

      Reply ↓
      1. A*

        I think it is reasonable to limit rollover of vacation and sick time. Like maximum 10 days rollover for up to 3 years.

        I don’t think it is reasonable to have open ended or unlimited rollover.

        Reply ↓
    8. Alex*

      I get 15 vacation days, 12 sick days, and 3 personal days. I feel like that is medium-generous for the US. We also get between 17-19 paid holidays, which I feel is extra generous for the US (this includes closure between Christmas and New Year).

      Reply ↓
  55. Diocletian Blobb*

    How bad of an idea is it to apply for an internal position that I’m somewhat underqualified for, especially if I just got a promotion and a raise a few months ago? My company is doing a big expansion in a field that matches my skill set and there’s a new position that just opened up with about 25% higher pay.

    I have complete faith in my skills to execute this position — I don’t have experience with everything it requires, but I’m a high performer in my current role and it would be a difference in degree, not of kind (ie this isn’t a jump from IC to people manager or anything like that). Basically, it would just be bigger, more ambitious projects for stuff I’m already good at. Do I apply?

    Reply ↓
    1. Parenthesis Guy*

      I wouldn’t say it’s a bad idea, but many places won’t consider you if you were promoted in the last year. But in this case, the worst they can say is no. I wouldn’t think they’d hold it against you.

      Reply ↓
    2. A*

      I think it would be reasonable if they want to see longer term success at your most recent promotion before they give you another one.

      I don’t see harm in applying but I wouldn’t hold your breath on this one.

      Reply ↓
  56. Rinn*

    Has anyone figured out a way to tolerate really terrible treatment during a PIP for the couple of weeks necessary to try to preserve your legal options?

    And does anyone know what level I need to work at these next two weeks in order not to negatively impact a lawsuit should I bring one? I have been working at my “normal pace” which in reality right now is doing twice the normal work I do in the same amount of time. If I reduce my effort will that just tank a case down the road? I just don’t know if I can keep going at this pace and also managing the strain of the check-ins and the extra scrutiny.

    Background:
    I’m (F, GenX) a technician in engineering. I’ve been put on a PIP and the check-ins have been hour-long interrogations. They are wildly out of scope of the PIP document. There’s been 4 of these check-ins in 3 weeks, with two more check-ins to go. For a 30-day PIP.

    The source of the PIP has turned out to be from mainly one person and he’s the guy in charge. It had been initially presented as being from my team lead but this guy, his boss, was clearly behind it all along.

    Yesterday was the worst yet. He has triggers such as if I say one word about any of my coworkers, even things like “my whole team does xyz” he nearly becomes unhinged. He yells “this has nothing to do with anyone else but you!” Even though the engineering design process inherently involves a team of people. Essentially at this point it is clear that he is not trying to solve any problem other than his own need to push me out.

    Obviously this ends with me leaving in some shape or form. But I am angry. And I’m sad because my actual coworkers are decent guys and I feel part of the group. And there’s my age and the shitty job market.

    I am in a sort of limbo. I’m later in my career and at this point a firing on “my record” doesn’t matter as much to me as having an income in some form even if unemployment for now. I have made a complaint to the company legal department and I’m talking to outside lawyers–but man are they busy.

    None of my coworkers seem to know about the PIP much less what is going on behind closed doors, one of those things where it is kind of too awful to believe. I hate thinking about the departure and how humiliating it will be. Even if I quit I will probably be escorted out because that is what they do here. And even if I quit it isn’t like I am going to tell everyone the details. It just looks like failure.

    Reply ↓
    1. Lurker*

      This sounds like a hostile work environment. Have you spoken to an employment attorney? This could be an EEOC violation if you can prove that gender or age are a factor. How does he treat the other people on the team?

      Reply ↓
    2. ILoveLlamas*

      Can you request that HR be present for all check-ins? Since you are on a PIP, that wouldn’t be a stretch. I would ask HR if they would be present rather than asking Crazy Man….

      Reply ↓
    3. WellRed*

      Is there HR? Can you request that they sit in on these pip check ins so maybe he’ll stop screaming at you (or you’ll have a witness). I think you have nothing to lose by saying you feel unsafe.

      Reply ↓
    4. I should really pick a name*

      If you’re seriously considering legal options, I suggest having a consultation with a lawyer.

      They’d have a better idea of what you actually need to tolerate and what actually affects the potential lawsuit.

      Reply ↓
    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      Any PIP should be coordinated with HR. Please see if HR can sit in on your meetings. Also, start getting your personal items out of the office. And I totally agree with consulting an employment attorney.
      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
    6. A Significant Tree*

      HR was my first thought too, they should definitely be included on the future meetings. You already did the right thing with the complaint and talking to outside lawyers, hopefully one will have time and advice for you soon.

      Also this might not apply but are you in a union and/or does your company have an ombuds person? A few people I knew in similar (hostile) situations started to request their union rep be present for every single meeting with their manager. I think an ombuds does the same kind of thing.

      Reply ↓
  57. JennyFair*

    I’ve been teaching (chemistry/biochemistry) at the college level for a few years now. I love it, but I’m thinking of switching to middle or high school for several reasons. Has anyone made that switch, that would like to share how it went? Just how bad is it having to deal with parents? Is it as much more work as it feels like it would be?

    Reply ↓
    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      High schoolers are a lot less independent than college level students. You’re going to need to do a lot more spoon feeding and hand holding through material. You’re going to need to go slower through material and assume no one does any external readings to prep for class. You’re going to have to teach to the test if you’re in a state with graduation tests.

      You’re going to face ridiculous administration stuff. You’re going to have behavioral issues was kids go through puberty and what not. You’re going to have parents who think they’re child deserves an A to go to the best college even though they never turned in a single piece of homework.

      Reply ↓
  58. Green Goose*

    Does anyone here work in corporate philanthropy/foundation? I want a bit of a gut check. I come from the nonprofit space and have now been on the corporate philanthropy side for over a year. While the pay and work/life balance are better, I’ve found the people in charge are all wealthy friends of higher ups and don’t care about the work and were just given the jobs. I see this at my corporation and the other corporations that we interact with. It’s really disheartening. Have I just been unlucky with where I landed or is this just kind of how it is in corporate philanthropy?

    I was watching Running Point with Kate Hudson and in the first episode her brother who is the CEO just gives her the job of Charity Coordinator and it made me so mad (lol, it’s just a show) but made me consider that it’s just common knowledge that this is what happens with these type of roles?
    Let me know if you work in this space and if you find this to be true/not true. Sigh.

    Reply ↓
  59. AnonFed*

    Another Fed debating whether to stay or go. I panic-applied for a job at few weeks ago, but things seem to be stabilizing in my agency and I have heard from a reliable source that my job/office isn’t likely to be targeted in any RIFs (my series is explicitly excluded from eligibility for voluntary resignation incentives).

    I had originally planned to wait it out until summer and make a decision on whether to stay or go. But now I’m a finalist for a job I thought was a stretch.

    A part of me wants to pull myself from consideration. It’s not a good time to leave my team. This new job has a lot less leave and more evening and weekend commitments, and I have little kids. The fact that my first non-Federal job application in over a decade got me this far is easing my fears about whether my skills are marketable. Even if I do eventually get targeted for a RIF, if they follow the regs, I’ll get about 5 months of severance and 8 weeks of leave paid out, so I’ll have some time.

    Another part of me is afraid that come this summer, things will still be bad and I’ll need to start looking. And the market will be flooded with people who were laid off. Or that Musk and Co will find another way to yank my paycheck out from under me with no notice and not follow the RIF regs.

    Reply ↓
    1. *daha**

      Save yourself. Don’t put your trust in people who have broken the Nation’s trust time after time. Accept this job if it is offered, and continue to explore openings that match your 9-5 preferences. This could be your liferaft.

      Reply ↓
    2. Not in govt*

      While I’m not in govt, I would advise at least waiting to see if you get an offer and perhaps if you can negotiate for things that are important to you, such as more leave. If you don’t get an offer or if you get an offer and they won’t meet your terms, well then, there’s your answer.

      Reply ↓
    3. WestsideStory*

      I’d say the best thing to do is continue to apply to other jobs – that way if the one you’re in consideration for doesn’t happen, or if it turns out does not suit your life, you will feel you have other options.

      Honestly I would not wait till summer to start serious job-hunting. The market may well be flooded. And you can’t count on RIF regs being followed when you’re operating in an environment that glories in flouting all rules. You will be doing all your fellow citizens a favor doing the best job you can while you are still there, but if you can find another suitable position, do what is best for you and your family.

      Reply ↓
    4. ILoveLlamas*

      My fingers are crossed for you. I would suggest negotiating on the PTO — I’m always able to get more when I ask, but I’m also in the private sector. Good luck!!

      Reply ↓
    5. A Significant Tree*

      I’m a fed and seriously considering applying for an industry job just in case (a specific job, which doesn’t come up often). I’m also assured that my job code is as safe as any, but that doesn’t seem to be written anywhere and if they use seniority as a blanket RIF criteria, I’m a few years past probationary but still relatively new in an agency where people typically stay for decades. Any one of the people on my team leaving voluntarily or not would really impact the work since we’re so understaffed already, but that is obviously not an agency-level priority.

      I vote for sticking out the process and if an offer happens, see how you feel then. If you turn it down and a few months later things change, it’s possible that door might still be open.

      Reply ↓
    6. Hillary*

      It’s never a good time to leave your team. You have to take care of yourself first. And you also don’t have to say yes if they offer you the job.

      Reply ↓
    7. cubone*

      I don’t have any helpful advice, but I’m genuinely so sorry about everything that happening to you and your colleagues.

      Reply ↓
  60. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

    Eek, I stumbled into a freelance opportunity that I could lock in at 25 hours/week with a single client for at least a year. I’ve been thinking about leaving my (very stable, great benefits, very flexible hours but miserable internal politics and an industry that I would love to escape) job for awhile but I have a truly incredible amount of flexibility (I can take 6 hours off in the middle of the day two days a week with work bookending in the mornings and evenings). I did a couple one-off projects for this potential client that went super smoothly and I really enjoyed. This is…tempting.

    And also terrifying! I’m in nonprofitland and just about everyone I know in the field is looking at layoffs or other chaos related to the political moment. The freelance work would cover my expenses (including healthcare) and leave me with enough to save for retirement, and I have a very healthy savings account and 401k, but it would also be an $80k pay cut, with downstream impacts on the quality of health insurance I could afford and the amount going into my retirement savings. I could of course seek more clients but working 25 hours a week sounds so incredible right now.

    I’m mid-30’s, a modest mortgage, no kids, a partner who chips in but makes much less money than me, and a fairly inexpensive overall lifestyle. On paper I can afford this, but throwing away a high income and stability for uncertainty seems risky. I had serious challenges making enough money to live on in my 20’s and don’t want to go back to the struggle. And, trying out this freelance thing is what my heart wants to do.

    Advice, commiseration, anecdotes about your experiences taking the plunge all welcome.

    Reply ↓
  61. Being blamed for other’s mistakes*

    My company is requiring us to give more and more to the overseas support team. The problem is that our performance (and annual bonuses) is tied to the overseas support team’s performance, but their work is dreadful. We have no authority over or ability to discipline the overseas team for mistakes. All we can do is send screen shots and discussions of errors to our higher ups, who are supposed to be passing this stuff along to the managers on overseas team. I’m so frustrated. We’re being blamed for not training them well enough, yet we’ve had multiple Teams calls with overseas staff recording the training so they can refer back to. Lots of simplified how tos with many screen shots.

    How do you handle this?

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      First off – this is a bad system. Tying your performance to someone else’s performance is a shitty thing to do, especially since y’all are not professional trainers or educators and you have no authority to discipline them for mistakes. I don’t have any great solutions, since to really make this stick you should have a trainer who is experienced with teaching things *in that culture* and more actual supervisory authority. But some things you can try:

      * If there are any specific counterparts on your overseas team that you’ve built more of a connection with, or any coworkers on your team who are more familiar with the overseas team, schedule a call and try and get some honest answers on if the trainings are helpful and making sense. Try having them walk through their process on a piece of work – that’s a good way of seeing how someone thinks and approaches a problem. Your goal might be “make this work with their process” rather than “train them to use our process”.

      * Are you getting a bunch of the same error? Or is it new errors each time? If you’re getting repeated errors on something you’ve already trained them on, it’s a good sign that either your training isn’t making sense or they just aren’t following it. Either way, that’s useful data to pass along to your managers. “Boss, we’ve trained them on the appropriate Llama grooming tools 3 times. Here’s the dates. We still get 3 complaints a day of the wrong tools being used.”

      * Make sure everyone is on the same page regarding level of final polish on work. Maybe they’re assuming that they are doing first drafts and you’re doing the final polish. Maybe you’re assuming they have more QA than they do. Maybe it makes sense for you to start doing early QA over their work to head off more errors.

      I’m sorry. This is not a fun situation to be in.

      Reply ↓
  62. Sulcata Turtle*

    Hi, starting my new job on Monday! It’s in academia (IT staff, not faculty). I left a job that had slightly better pay for this one because my previous job was so bad, I tripled my anxiety meds and had heart problems. Now I’m scared to be in this new job! I feel like I should have held out for a better offer. On the other hand, my new boss seems AMAZING and there’s so room to grow. I know I’m taking my mental health over purely money, but I can’t still feeling bad. How can I shift my mindset even a little bit?

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      See the thread started by “Mature Student soon?”

      Change is scary! It’s pretty normal to be nervous/have cold feet before starting a new job. It also takes time to settle into a new job, so know that it might be a few weeks for the nerves/cold feet to subside.

      For a shifting mindset, how do you feel when you frame it as “I would pay $5,000 (or whatever the difference in salary is) to get solve my anxiety and heart problems.” If that feels better than “I took a $5,000 pay cut” or “I lost $5,000 a year” or whatever internal framing you have right now, keep repeating “I paid $5,000 to solve my health problems” whenever you start to feel bad about the money.

      Reply ↓
      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        Yes I agree. I also moved from a job that on paper looked like it was good but was really toxic. And I moved to a state university. I absolutely love it! And although technically it was a pay cut, the benefits were much better, including my health insurance. I have pretty much the same health insurance (including it being a local company). BUT when I started I got just about the same amount take home because the old insurance was so much more expensive.

        One thing that my university started is they have a mentor program for new employees. Maybe yours does too. You’re not going to be the only person whose in your position.

        Reply ↓
  63. ILoveLlamas*

    Happiness doesn’t need to include money. Be healthy. Be excited. Money will follow. Congratulations!

    Reply ↓
  64. Roguelock*

    How do I nicely field questions about my top surgery at work?

    I’m getting top surgery in a month (which I’m super excited about.) I’m out at work as non-binary, but I work in a retirement home in the South so I still get misgendered pretty frequently. (Residents I don’t mind; other staff is another issue for another day.)
    My question is, I’ll be out for six weeks recovering from surgery, but when I come back it’s going to be… noticeable what kind of surgery I had. I’d like to positively assume no one will comment on my body/be weird about it, but given where I work and that we’re in the South, unsolicited comments aren’t totally unexpected.

    Does anyone have a good script for navigating this? I’m worried if I’m vague and say I did it for health reasons, people will assume preventative measures for cancer, which I definitely don’t want. I’m usually okay with being open about being trans, but having to explain what top surgery is doesn’t always feel safe.

    Reply ↓
    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I’m not in the south (but grew up in a small rural town so have similar comments) and I’m not trans. But I think you could go with that it was for health and just not answer any questions. Depending on the level of your residents they may be easliy redirected. “Oh I don’t want to talk about why, lets go get a cup of tea and get ready for bingo”. your coworkers are probably going to be more nosey. How do you handle it now? Would you be able to get away with calling them out a bit? Like “why are you so obsessed with my body and my choices? It’s really creepy.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Roguelock*

        Hmm. Not many of them know now except my boss/immediate coworker and they’re both chill. I don’t think I’d be comfortable being quite that direct with calling them out–not quite the culture we have here, unfortunately. I agree some residents might be easier to redirect, but we have a large independent living population I interact with frequently who won’t be as easily redirected.

        Reply ↓
    2. Hlao-roo*

      No personal experience, but I like these two scripts from a past letter (“I don’t want my coworkers to know about my boob job” from May 21, 2012):

      I’d go with “I had a medical procedure, but I’m fine,” and if anyone asks follow-up questions, then say, “I don’t want to get into medical details, but everything is okay.”

      There are also a few scripts in the “I don’t want to tell coworkers about my weight loss surgery” letter from November 29, 2016.

      And I recommend reading the letter and update “Should I admit my nose job to coworkers?” (letter from October 3, 2018 and update from December 31, 2018), because in the update, no one commented on the nose job!

      I’ll link to these letters in a reply to this comment.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        https://www.askamanager.org/2012/05/i-dont-want-my-coworker-to-know-about-my-boob-job.html

        https://www.askamanager.org/2016/11/i-dont-want-to-tell-coworkers-about-my-weight-loss-surgery-client-called-me-beloved-and-more.html

        The nose job letter and update are both #2 on their respective posts:

        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/10/my-coworker-is-telling-everyone-he-wants-to-ask-me-out-should-i-admit-i-had-a-nose-job-and-more.html

        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/12/updates-were-supposed-to-be-hugged-to-check-for-fragrances-and-more.html

        I hope your surgery and recovery go well!

        Reply ↓
    3. EMP*

      Can you be Even Vaguer? Instead of blaming health reasons, something like “yep, I decided this made the most sense for me!”, or “Yep, I had surgery!”, with just absolutely no excuse or explanation?

      Reply ↓
      1. Roguelock*

        I don’t know why but just “Yep, I had surgery!” and leaving it at that is making me laugh. I do like that though!

        Reply ↓
    4. Generic Name*

      Do you WANT to talk about your top surgery at work? If you are okay saying what surgery you had, that’s fine, but you don’t owe anyone an explanation about why or what for. If you don’t want to discuss it, you could always reply to questions with, “Why do you ask?” and watch people sputter as they realize they will have to admit they are looking at your chest.

      Reply ↓
  65. HowDoesSheDoItAll?*

    Any advice on dealing with annoying coworkers — particularly those who talk openly above political views and TMI personal issues? It’s making office life miserable for me right now.

    Reply ↓
    1. cubone*

      Are you familiar with the “grey rocking” strategy? Basically just act like a boring, bland grey rock with no emotional responses or opinions.

      Reply ↓
  66. Nonprofit ED*

    Does anyone know of a site like Ask a Manager that is geared towards people in leadership or executive level positions?

    Reply ↓
    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      I don’t know of a site, but there are executive networking groups in most metropolitan areas. For example, The Boston Club is a women’s executive networking group in, you guessed it, Boston.

      Reply ↓
  67. Can't Sit Still*

    I signed up for a free webinar that I thought looked interesting and because it was a taste to see if I wanted to pay for more content.

    First, the introduction scared my cats (they ran from the room all puffed up!) and then there were absurd technical issues from the teacher, so I dropped after 10 minutes. I guess you get what you pay for, but I’m really glad I tried the freebie before I signed up for the paid seminars!

    Seriously, though, they scared my cats! I’ve been WFH for 5 years now and my cats have observed numerous Zoom & Team meetings, all hands livestreams, and various training sessions, some of them pretty loud and over the top obnoxious, and none of them have scared the cats before!

    Anyone else have a meeting or training that scared the household or office pets?

    Reply ↓
  68. Zee*

    What do y’all think about a job applicant leaving their major off their résumé and just putting the degree (i.e. “Bachelor of Science”)?

    Context is my undergrad degree is completely unrelated to the work I do now. The reason I’m not working in the field that I majored in is traumatic, and I hate people asking about it at interviews. It forces me to lie, which I am pretty ethically opposed to as a general rule.

    But, I’ve heard a handful of people say that it looks sketchy, like you’re trying to hide something bad. Would it be a red (or yellow) flag for you if you were hiring?

    Reply ↓
    2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Probably depends on the industry and how much work experience you have. In my industry (nonprofit marketing/communications), once you’ve got the 3-5 years professional experience to qualify for jobs above entry level, I’m definitely not looking at college majors as an indicator of qualifications.

      If you’re working on getting your first job in the field and have no relevant internship or other experience, it’s going to be harder to avoid questions about it.

      Reply ↓
    3. Pay no attention...*

      Depends on if the major is relevant and essential to the job. A BS in Nursing is probably essential to a job in Nursing but not important for a job as an administrative assistant—so listing just BS would be fine—and a BS in Llama Grooming might disqualify someone from applying for the Nursing job.

      Reply ↓
  69. Grey*

    Not a question, but still work-related.

    If not for the recent post about upside-down flag stamps, I wouldn’t have noticed I was guilty of the same thing. It’s an easy mistake to make with that stamp.

    Reply ↓
  70. cubone*

    TL;DR question: how many questions in a 1hr interview do you think is a reasonable?

    Longer version: I had a 1hr interview with 12 questions and each question had 2-4 sub-questions within it. I ran out of time to get through them all (embarrassing) and I’m really struggling with how much of this was “my” fault for not managing my response time better vs. just an absurd amount of content to get through in an interview?? And how could I prepare better in the future for this kind of interview?

    More details: the hiring panel let me know there would be 13 questions at the start of the interview, so I had a sense of how much time to spend on each question. I was doing okay for the first 2 questions…… but the questions were SO. LONG. They copied them in the chat and each question was 2 paragraphs, with at least 4 sentences per paragraph (including additional questions/topics they asked you to address). I found it really difficult to address every sub-question (which has been the #1 piece of advice I’ve gotten for interviewing with this company!!) and I just… lost track of time. I did adjust as I went on and kept my answers much shorter, but I’m also pretty sure I didn’t address every point/sub-question by doing this.

    The panel was very nice about it, but I don’t think it was a great look. I’m obviously disappointed and a bit defensive, truthfully. I did a TON of prep and knew my best career stories by heart, but I truly felt like I needed 10++ seconds to even comprehend each question before responding (I didn’t take 10 seconds to think, but did take 5 seconds max to orient myself before responding. But I stopped doing that when I realized how slow we were getting through the interview).

    This isn’t really a situation where I want to just write this employer off for poor interview practices. It’s a huge employer that I think I’d be a good fit for (lots of info interviews have confirmed my interest!), and it’s well-known they are very competitive and it may take quite a few applications to get a foot in the door. So, in an ideal world, I hope I get another shot (for another position, since I assume I lost this chance). This just seems to be their interview style for a lot of reasons (competitiveness, unionized, etc.), and I really, really want to work there. But I genuinely don’t know how I could’ve mitigated this, or prepared better.

    Thoughts/advice?

    Reply ↓
    1. C in Mass*

      I would have had a hard time focusing if I knew there 13 questions because I would have kept wondering, “OMG WHICH QUESTION IS JUDAS”

      Reply ↓
  71. Cat*

    College scholarship question…
    My son has been accepted into a private university and is in the final rounds of a competitive scholarship. The scholarship is given to a number of kids, and there are varying monetary awards. I am almost positive he will get something because he is required to spend a day at the university and observe a panel discussion, etc. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t do that and give no money at all since kids have to travel (although of course, that is a possibility). The scholarship award ranges from a fairly small amount to a huge amount.

    We are trying to decide if it makes sense to commit to the college before the scholarship is awarded or wait until after it is awarded. If he commits first, we might get more money because they definitely know he is coming and there is only a certain amount total. They may be less likely to give a big award to a kid who may not even go there. On the other hand, they may want to award him a bigger amount as an incentive to go to the school. Agh! We really don’t know what to do. Any ideas?

    At this point, he is almost for sure going to go to the school regardless of the scholarship. However, it is more than we have budgeted and would mean more loans. For a variety of reasons, it still makes the most financial sense, so whether or not he gets the award will not impact the decision. Of course we would like to get the amount down as much as possible though.

    Reply ↓

Leave a Comment

Before you comment: Please be kind, stay on-topic, and follow the site's commenting rules.
You can report an ad, tech, or typo issue here.

Subscribe to all comments on this post by RSS