the pinstripe suits, the fancy espresso machine, and other weird hills coworkers chose to die on

by Alison Green on March 24, 2025

Last week we talked about weird hills to die on — people who became so strongly committed to a minor fight that they lost all sight of logic and decorum — and here are 10 of my favorite stories you shared.

1. The newsletter

Our Fortune 500 company hosted a weekend company-wide softball tourney, which was won by a team led by a guy known around the office as Hothead.

Monday morning arrives and the company-wide daily email goes out with important company announcements. One of the items included was the results of the previous weekend’s softball tourney. Hothead was livid about the fact that it included only the team name (not individual team members) and that it also included the team name of the runners-up.

He sent a scathing email to the comms person responsible for the newsletter about their “failure to recognize exceptional individual achievements” in the newsletter and demanded they send out a second email identifying each team member of the winning team. The comms person said no, so he made a nasty post on the company’s internal bulletin board; the posting was so snarky that it got removed within a couple of hours of posting it.

That made Hothead even more incensed so he skipped several levels of management and brought “the glaring omission” to the attention of the VP of Comms, head of HR, and a couple of C-level execs via email. He got a call from HR and ripped them a new one. He was brought in immediately for an in-person meeting with HR — with security present — and ordered to undergo anger management therapy. He refused, escalated his behavior, and was escorted from the building. Security cleaned out his desk for him.

2. The pinstripe suits

Many years ago, I worked for a very conservative smaller bank. The CEO was very old school, with a rigorous dress code. For decades (literally), the bank bought all staff four nicely tailored suits every two years. For the men, two were navy pinstripe, two were navy solid, and there were five company-supplied approved ties. For women, they were the same navy, and women could choose skirts or pants. This was described in the employee handbook. The solid suits were to be worn on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, the pinstripe suits on Tuesday and Thursday. I’m not kidding.

Toward the end of my tenure there, they decided to stop buying pinstripe suits. All four suits were the same dark navy. One older gentleman in our mortgage department was livid that they got rid of the pinstripe suits, and threatened to quit unless the decision was changed. He literally sent a resignation letter to the CEO (who he had known for decades).

Eventually a compromise was reached. It was added to the company handbook specifically that while we were not buying new pinstripe suits, if an employee had a pinstripe suit brought by the company, that as long as it was in good shape and looked professional, the employee was allowed to wear it on Tuesday or Thursday.

3. The supplies

When everyone was sent home for Covid, there was a lot of discussion about reimbursement for things like printer ink and other supplies.

But one group got all up in arms about three specific items: paper towels, hand soap, and, of course, toilet paper. On the argument that they got these items for free while working at work, so their at home usage went up for all of these things. They were livid that they were not going to be reimbursed for the toilet paper they had to use while working from home. And since we use the giant industrial rolls, they couldn’t just take some home.

There are a couple of them who still sneak extra office supplies home to “make up” for the injustice of having to provide their own essentials during that time.

4. The walking track

I run a senior center. Our building is laid out in such a way that our internal hallways can be used as an indoor walking track, which many people do utilize. Since we opened the facility, everyone seemed to all walk in one direction: counterclockwise. This went on for about a year, when we had some requests from patrons to switch directions. Not only to shake things up, but also so walkers could better enjoy some large murals we had had installed.

We announced the change at the start of the new year, and you wouldn’t believe the backlash. I had people telling me and my team that they were “never going to come back again!” I had folks telling us, “You can’t make me walk that way! I won’t do it!” and I had one person crying about how this change was too big and too dramatic and he would find somewhere else to walk.

After a week of this, we decided to hang up mirrors at the corners and tell people to walk whichever way they want and just not bump into each other. My colleagues and I still laugh about how we ruined everyone’s lives by changing the direction of the walking track; it still comes up years later in department head meetings.

5. The fancy espresso machine

My office was making plans for renovations, and the director got it into his head that we should have a big lounge area with couches where we could all bring our laptops and work together socially whenever we wanted.* My department head suggested we should get some sort of fancy espresso machine for this space, which the director roundly shut down as an unforgiveable extravagence. Department head was not to be deterred. He brought the espresso machine up at every meeting – department meetings where none of us could do anything about it, all-staff meetings, department head meetings where he reportedly got into arguments with the director each time. Finally he retired (possibly in part because of the espresso machine). We have an annual party where we invite our recent retirees back to make nice speeches about them and hear them make a speech too. He used his speech to bring up the espresso machine.

* This is its own issue but let’s just say not many people were enthused at the prospect of leaving their private offices with dual monitor setups to balance a laptop on their knees on a couch. In the end, the renovation was much more mundane and mostly involved expanding the boardroom so all the staff could fit in it at once.

6. The microwaved fish

I’m sure I’m not the only person who’s seen office drama over fish in the microwave, but a few years back it got to a ridiculous level. We had two microwaves in our cafeteria and someone (don’t know who, we were a decent amount of people in the office at the time) would microwave fish regularly. One day HR put up signs on the microwave doors saying “please don’t microwave foods with strong smells.” Well, the fish cooker must have taken it personally because they lost it. They first wrote a note in red on the sign to protest, then stuck up printouts from websites explaining the benefits of eating fish, all the while continuing to heat up their fish.

7. The pages

I have worked as a graphic designer for various nonprofits (often the only designer on staff). One department head at a library where I worked was adamant about maintaining her own preferred formatting/layout in design pieces that included work from a lot of other departments too (think annual report). So while everyone else was satisfied for me to take their images and text and use everything to make a nice cohesive design, this woman had to have “her pages” just the way she wanted — meaning multiple exclamation points (in a row, like “!!!!!”) and tiny pictures often arranged in an arc with WordArt titles.

I did push back, my boss pushed back, but because she was a department head it didn’t go anywhere. Eventually I just ended up exporting her original submitted Word docs as a PDF and plonking the whole thing into the annual report rather than trying to recreate her bananas layout ideas in InDesign. So if you were perusing our annual report, you’d get through about 20 pages of nicely-designed content, then suddenly a couple pages that looked like a 12-year-old made a flyer in Microsoft Word.

She was happy. I was not, but I was tired.

8. The title

Between college and law school, I took an unpaid internship with a local district attorney’s office. I was hired on full time at the conclusion of the internship as a research and writing assistant for the attorneys, which made the office manager who supervised me lose all her marbles in spectacular fashion. She pulled me out of meetings with the attorneys to do things like move boxes, rearrange files, and sweep floors. When one of the supervising attorneys told her off for it, she retaliated by ordering me office-branded notepads with my name and the title “temporary assistant district attorney intern.” You better believe I still have a few of those notepads hanging around and still laugh at them some 20 years later!

9. The start-up software

Someone in my company’s IT has decided the hill they are dying on is that Adobe Creative Cloud must automatically load every time we log into our workstation. On our already slow work computers that’s connected to an even slower virtual desktop using firewall software known to lag, it means a 15-minute start-up sequence on a good day. There have been many complaints and we’ve begged them to just change the startup settings so CC isn’t a startup app but they refuse to budge. No one knows why.

Every time someone requests this be changed, IT sends an email reply with the subject line “Why Adobe Creative Cloud Will Remain A Startup App” that is a long manifesto over the importance of Adobe CC in computing history without actually explaining why it needs to be in startup. There is not one single CC app we need for our jobs and we’re not even allowed to use Acrobat for PDFs.

10. The dress code

This isn’t mine, but my father’s. I am still proud of him for it, actually.

He was a high school history teacher from the 60s into the 90s. Very well-respected, wrote many textbooks, loved by his students. What he hated – and I mean hated – was having to wear formal clothes while he was teaching. The students could wear jeans, why couldn’t he? He actually organized a rebellion among his fellow teachers who were also sick of having to get dressed up every day – suits, dress shirts, ties, pantyhose, dresses, heels for the female teachers, dress shoes for the men, etc. – so they were quite willing to follow my dad’s lead. He fought with the assistant principal. He fought with his department head. He fought loudly with the principal. He went up against the school board. He declared he would quit over this if they would not relent. Finally, he organized a day of resistance. He got as many teachers as possible to come to work dressed in jeans. I think about 60 teachers did. The principal couldn’t send them all home, so he acquiesced.

From that day forward, teachers could wear jeans. There was much rejoicing. And I think, cake.

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{ 341 comments }

{ 341 comments… read them below or add one }

    2. SicktoMyStomach*

      That was my dad! He was very proud of his rebellion. And his fellow teachers considered him a legend.

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      2. Quill*

        Your dad is a hero – I vividly remember helping my mom (elementary teacher) fighting mandatory christmas cheer with the nuclear option ugly sweater.

        And by helping I mean sewing, how many thrifted mismatched holiday potholders can one sweater hold?

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      3. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I went to a progressive public HS in the 1970s. The average age for the faculty when I was in 9th grade was 26. All the teachers wore jeans except for the two oldest: a woman who taught social studies and wore pantsuits and our choir director who wore gray flannel pants, a sport coat, and a tie. So instead of “Dress Down Day” the teachers had “Dress Up Day” once a year when they wore Very Fancy Clothes. Formal gowns, tuxedos, high heels – the whole shebang.

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    5. Hello Dolly*

      Except for all the people who love to get dressed up. Once things become informal, really difficult to go back.

      Reply ↓
      2. DJ Abbott*

        I love dressing up, but the thought of trying to teach in heels makes me not want to.
        I’ve been watching the show Family Matters, and when I see Harriette coming in from a long day of work in her high heels, I cringe.
        It is possible to dress up and still wear comfortable shoes!

        Reply ↓
    6. Lauren*

      I kind of disagree on this.

      As teachers, it’s part of the job of teachers and school staff to present professionalism, and one way to do that is through dress.

      As someworking in schools, I would look askance at a colleague that made this big of a deal about wearing jones.

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      2. umami*

        Same, at least about being so militant about wearing jeans in particular. What is people’s obsession with jeans? I don’t find them any more comfortable than most pants, and dresses are much more comfortable and forgiving, if you ask me!

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        1. Just Another Cog in the Machine*

          But wearing dress shoes and heels is NOT comfortable, especially for a job where you stand in front of your students all day. And it seems like the only acceptable dress for female teachers were pantyhose and dresses, and there’s never a good reason for that.

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        2. Ms. Norbury*

          As a rule, jeans are made of sturdier fabric that lasts and will avoid underwear line, they go with pretty much everything, don’t need ironing, are easy to replace, don’t draw attention if you always wear the same ones, and though they don’t look formal they can certainly look neat.

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          1. DJ Abbott*

            They are not so easy to replace these days. I looked for two years to get two decent looking pairs of jeans that fit and are comfortable.
            I only wear them for social. Otherwise I wear scrub pants in summer and sweats in winter. I mostly wear skirts and dresses for work and social.
            It took a few months to find good sweatpants, too.

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        3. Festively Dressed Earl*

          Until recently, dresses and skirts almost never had pockets. Pockets are fundamental to success in any workplace, for carrying pencils and snacks and small dragons. I’m pretty sure that’s a chapter in one of Alison’s books.

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            1. RC*

              Depends on the jeans! I have some that are absurdly small (like can barely fit a credit card, wtf), and some that are …kind of absurdly large actually (I got them from a thrift store… suspiciously, “Jeans” brand jeans so couldn’t tell you where they’re sold other than I could fit a standard ginormous cell phone in the front pockets).

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              1. AF Vet*

                If they’re pretty pockets, then you’ve one across one of my pairs! I’ll get those jeans with ridiculously small pockets, pick up a fat quarter of fabric (the small rectangle that you’ll find at Walmart, which folds out to 18″×21″), and then use the quilting cotton to extend / reinforce the pocket and drop it until it’s long enough to hold my phone. :D From the time I sit down with the seam ripper to the time I snip the last knot, is about two hours. Time well spent in my mind! And you never know what my pockets will look like!

                * If you decide to try this, wash the fat quarter first, in the hottest water and high heat. Cotton WILL shrink, so abuse it BEFORE you cut into it to minimize later shrinkage and warping. It sucks to skip this step, spend the time to make the pocket, and then it gets all wonky in the wash.

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                1. Aww, coffee, no*

                  Extending jeans pockets – why have I never thought of this?!? Amazing suggestion, thank you so much.
                  Signed: another person grumpy that pockets in women’s jeans are smaller than those in men’s jeans. Yes, even for the same size jeans.

      4. Danish*

        As someone who has been a student, I can tell you that How Dressed Up You Are does not factor into the “how much a student respects you”, and “teacher looks professional” is also not something a single high school student cares about. So one must ask… who is the looking professional for?

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      5. Selina Luna*

        I wouldn’t have cared so much about the jeans thing. I wear a dress most days, myself. I can’t say that the dress I wear is particularly business-professional, though. The one I have on now is a cotton skater dress with purple dragons, and I also have on leggings and slightly upscale sneakers. My husband, also a teacher, wears trousers and a button-down shirt most days, and I would say that both of our looks qualify as business casual.
        However, this sounds like it’s more than the jeans thing. If I had to wear dress shoes every day, I would hate life at the end of every day, and so would my husband. I have mobility issues that don’t affect most of my life but make putting on pantyhose extremely difficult (I can manage tights, which are much thicker and sturdier).
        However, I’ve taught middle school and know elementary teachers, and I can say that clothes that stain easily, require dry cleaning, or require regular maintenance are a no-go for those levels.

        Reply ↓
        1. Storm in a teacup*

          The skater dress with dragons sounds so cool! Could you share a link if it’s still available to buy?

          Reply ↓
          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            I’m not the person who posted it , but I believe I have seen that on SvahaUSA’s site.

            Reply ↓
      6. fhqwhgads*

        And yet there are many professions where jeans are in no way considered unprofessional. So what exactly do they need to be modeling?

        And FWIW my AP teachers in HS pretty universally wore jeans, belt, dress shirt.

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        1. Fushi*

          Yeah, even the most old school and strict teachers just wore a blazer on top. Honestly would have freaked me out a bit if any of them was dressed super formally lol

          Reply ↓
          1. Oniya*

            I went to school from the mid-70’s to the early 90’s. I can’t tell you what most of my teachers wore, but I’m fairly sure that my AP History teacher in 9th grade (who I respected greatly, even if I had to downgrade to a regular history class) wore at best a sweater-vest, and my Calc I teacher in college – who really nobody respected (he was constantly hitting on English majors and lost tenure by my junior year) wore a jacket and tie.

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      7. nonprofit llama groomer*

        Look at when he was a teacher – 1960s-1990s. In the 60s and 70s, teachers were required to wear full on suits and ties (men) or dresses, pantyhose, heels (women). Fighting to be allowed to wear jeans was a big deal.

        As a former student and a parent of students, I don’t care at all what teachers wear as long as they stick to the rigid dress code enforced on female students, as long as they are good teachers.

        When I started out in my career in the late 1990s, I worked in an office wear men could wear khakis, a tie only when clients were present and a sports coat but the women had to wear dresses or suits with a skirt, no pants. The women protested and won in the way that the men had to start wearing suits. That’s not what we wanted, but at least the men had to be as uncomfortable as we were.

        Reply ↓
        1. SicktomyStomach*

          Thank you for seeing the nuance in the the story. My dad was a rebel in a lot of ways. And my mom was an elementary school teacher (my dad was high school) and he felt he was doing this for her too. It did make a lot of change happen for the teacher dress code and other things. I still remember my own school dress code rebellion in 6th grade. We had to wear dresses every day and in the winter the walk back and forth to school (a little over a mile) was REALLY cold and snowy. My legs would ache with the cold once I got to school. So one day I just stopped wearing dresses and wore my jeans. I was a really good student who never made trouble and the teachers just let it slide. Eventually, most of the girls started wearing pants of some kind.

          Resistance is NOT futile.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            My public school’s dress code was very open to interpretation (and therefore unequal enforcement), including the rule that a student’s clothes “should not suggest nudity”. Cue a bunch of students wearing paper signs or t-shirts with “I’m naked under my clothes” written on them until that part was removed.

            Between that and the Pledge of Allegiance protest, I learned a surprising amount about spontaneous civil disobedience during high school.

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    8. aunttora*

      My brother was a high school history teacher and he wore jeans every days. Jeans that had been IRONED with a CREASE in the front. He also (allegedly) ironed his underwear.

      Reply ↓
  2. microwaved fish*

    I microwave fish all the time at home. I think it smells like any other microwaved animal-based protein – delicious. I don’t understand why it gets singled out. Is it a genetic thing like being able to taste the soapiness of cilantro? Is it a cultural thing? I would never make this my hill to die on but I do not understand it at all.

    Reply ↓
    1. A Book about Metals*

      I was going to make a similar comment. To me, microwaved fish doesn’t smell any better or worse than other microwaved food.

      Reply ↓
      1. cloudy*

        I’ve always wondered this too. If not for this website, I would never have heard of anyone having a specific issue with it.

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        1. Clisby*

          Yep, it was a surprise to me, too. (When this subject has come up before here, others have mentioned disliking the smell of other foods as well – like kebabs, or spicy curry. No idea what that’s all about, either.)

          Reply ↓
        2. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, this is the first place I learned that apparently I’d been committing a cardinal sin for years at my first job and no one had ever mentioned it to me. *shrug emoji*

          Reply ↓
      2. goddessoftransitory*

        I think it might have to do with Fish as the dish vs. fish as an ingredient? To me, something like, say, tuna casserole smells like casserole–that is, the tuna isn’t overly prevalent. But if someone was nuking a tuna steak with nothing else? Then the *odeur de la mer* is going to be a lot more direct.

        And the design/location of a company’s break room would have a lot to do with it to, as far as retaining and dispersing the smell. If there’s a good airflow or window or such, it’s not the same as say, a basement room with no fan.

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      3. GammaGirl1908*

        Same. What is with these people who think food shouldn’t smell like anything? Good food smells good. I once was in a class where a lady apologized for bringing a slice of pizza to class because others could smell it. Like, wha? Yes, it smelled delicious, as it should have.

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    2. Hlao-roo*

      Last year someone in my office microwaved fish a few times. I can’t smell other people’s microwaved lunches from my desk, but I could smell the fish. At first I thought I was smelling BO, then the smell got fishier and I realized it was microwaved fish. The smell also hung around for a long time. So I think the two things are:

      1 – fish smell spreads farther and lingers longer (maybe only certain types of fish), and
      2- fish smell is less pleasant (probably has some genetic/cultural/personal taste aspect to it)

      Reply ↓
      1. CeeDoo*

        One of my (now retired) coworkers brought gumbo on a regular basis. Between the spices and the shrimp smell, the whole hallway was unpleasant.

        Reply ↓
      2. goddessoftransitory*

        I would say personal taste, for sure. I, for instance, despise all seafood and have done since childhood. I have nothing against it as cuisine or anybody tucking flounder fillets into their tummies to their hearts’ content, but for me personally it’s a no-go. Naturally, fishy smells are far from my favorite.

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      3. Jamjari*

        Yeah, I think it’s just that fish is stronger, not necessarily more unpleasant. Though there are certainly some that are stronger than others. The three things I smell in my apartment from others are fish, fried potatoes and burnt garlic.

        Reply ↓
    3. Antilles*

      Microwaved fish has a very distinct, lingering smell that other proteins don’t have.
      I don’t mind the smell personally, but it IS a lot more noticeable than someone reheating a burger or ham or etc.

      Reply ↓
      1. microwaved fish*

        personally I think it’s microwaving anything that’s fatty? Certainly I’ve had microwaved burger leave a lingering beef fat smell in my kitchen for hours…

        Reply ↓
    5. Alicent*

      The fatty acids oxidize in the air resulting in a fishy odor. I don’t notice it particularly, but it’s why cooked tinned fish like tuna smells so strong. If no one ever ate canned tuna around me again I would rejoice. I love raw or seared tuna, but Chicken of the Sea is a big no way.

      I also hate the smell of hamburgers grilling, but that’s socially acceptable in the US.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Yes, this. Microwave rapid heating means the oxidization occurs more quickly, making the smell more pungent compared to cooking fish with other methods. The oxidation also occurs when fish goes bad, so it makes a lot of sense that people associate the smell of microwaved fish with rotten fish.

        Pro tip: The bad smell is telling you you’re cooking your fish too quickly, and you’re probably drying out your fish. Low power and a covered container can help a lot.

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        2. Academic Physics*

          Also if the microwave rotates that’s best. Otherwise you end up with warm and cool patches. It’s super cool though, I used to teach a modern physics lab about the speed of light using microwaves and chocolate chips based on that fact!

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        3. goddessoftransitory*

          It’s also contained within the microwave itself, so it builds up and then releases that wave of odor when the door opens. Cooking on a stovetop or grill wouldn’t produce that effect.

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      2. Percysowner*

        Ah, that explains a lot. I’ve seen the complaints about fish, but never noticed a problem when I used the microwave at home. I only do 1 recipe which has a lot of melted butter to cook onions then adds the fish and covers everything with wine. I’m guessing all the liquid helps keep the smell down.

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    6. Rogue Slime Mold*

      I was pondering this because I feel like microwaved fish has a distinct odor from the smell of roasting or frying fish? I’m now wondering if I could detect this in a blind test. I think it tilts it to the fish-going-off end of the spectrum.

      Reply ↓
    7. Samwise*

      I love cooked (and raw) fish and like the smell of it, but it does linger longer than other cooked foods (don’t know if that’s due to the smell or to human beings’ sense of smell).

      Truly terrible scents from an office microwave — burned coffee and burned popcorn. Especially when the popcorn sets the microwave on fire… Kids, don’t use the popcorn setting on the microwave and do NOT ever walk away from popcorn heating in the microwave.

      A lesson a former boss learned. It was very satisfying to say “I told you so” and even better to hear everyone in the office saying “I told you so”.

      Reply ↓
      1. Wendy Darling*

        We had both a serial fish microwaver and a serial popcorn burner at one office I worked in and I was definitely angrier about the serial popcorn burner.

        Apparently some microwaves have an extremely smart popcorn setting (based on the humidity detected in the microwave) and some microwaves have an extremely dumb popcorn setting (just a timer) and the only way to figure out which one you’re dealing with is trial and error.

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      2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        My mom drilled it into my brother and my heads to never, ever, ever walk away from the microwave when making popcorn, but to hang around and actually listen for the pops to slow down.

        I thought she was being fussy until I was at a sleepover at someone else’s house, who said “you don’t have to do that,” so we went to play games and left it unattended. No fire, but it smelled awful-awful. I had a sudden appreciation for my mom’s Kitchen Commandments.

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      3. MigraineMonth*

        I worked at a company that 1) supplied microwave popcorn in every break room as a free snack and 2) hosted a giant conference every year where thousands of customers came to our campus. Since no one wanted fire trucks at the conference, the microwave popcorn would disappear from every break room a week before the conference.

        Naturally, this just meant that the wiliest employees stashed popcorn bags in their desks for the conference, but at least they knew to be extra-careful not to burn it at that time.

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    8. Chelle*

      I hate the smell of cooked fish so badly that I don’t even cook it in my house at all, let alone microwave it. It makes me downright nauseous. I notice the smell of beef or chicken being microwaved too, but I find it way less offensive and it dissipates much faster than fish.

      If it were just me, I would deal with it by keeping something with essential oil in it at my desk (and a lid, so it doesn’t smell all the time!) that I could sniff when the fish was microwaved. But it does sound like an issue multiple people have, and I am grateful to not be suffering alone!

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      1. WellRed*

        Yeah not a huge fan of microwave meat in general but fish really lingers. I warmed up some tea after a fish microwaver and had to dump the tea.

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      2. Mouse named Anon*

        Yeah I hate to say it to all of the above. The fish smell does linger. It lingers much more than other foods. Leave the microwaving of fish at home.

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    9. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      I don’t think it’s the smell alone, I think it’s that it lingers. Like fried food smells linger, cabbage lingers, curry lingers, etc. I like to eat all of those things, but when I cook them, my house smells for days after. And if you don’t like to eat them, it’s even worse.

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    10. StressedButOkay*

      Sometimes it depends on the fish and how it was previously prepared – and how long it’s being reheated for. Heat up a small piece of salmon for less than a minute? You’re probably good. A more fishy fish….?

      We got sent home once from a job along time ago because someone microwaved a WHOLE fish (head, tail, scales) for 10 minutes. It ended up being almost like chemical warfare.

      Also, broccoli stinks to high heaven in the microwave.

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      1. AnneCordelia*

        Heard this story when I was teaching. One group of staff (ie a grade level) decided to have a group potluck baked potato bar. So, one person would bring the baked potatoes, one would bring sour cream and bacon bits, etc. Well, one person’s contribution was a cheese and broccoli sauce, which she kept warm in a crockpot in her room. Then the principal came in and said, “Are we having plumbing problems? It smells like raw sewage.”

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    11. Bunny Girl*

      I also don’t think microwave fish smells bad at all. It’s a strong smell but I don’t think it’s horribly unpleasant. I do think some people are very sensitive to smells though. I remember one time I had a veggie stir fry with noodles and there was some broccoli in it. I didn’t even heat it up, I just had it on the counter for a minute and then went back to my desk. I had a coworker who swore she could smell it in the breakroom and was SUPER dramatic about it, like making fake gagging noises and trying to get everyone to come in to the breakroom to see how bad it smelled. All I really did was raise my eyebrows. I sincerely couldn’t smell anything at all.

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      1. Teej*

        Maybe it’s time to be reflective on how dependent you are on your own perception rather than other people’s perceptions.

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    12. HannahS*

      I think it’s cultural. Most Americans/Canadians eat a lot more chicken and beef than fish and “fishy” tastes are not very popular here. I think people just tune out the smells of chicken and beef, which are more commonly eaten but also strong and lingering. As a Jew, I find the smell of bacon greasy, thick, lingering, and off-putting but lots of people LOVE it and find it really appetizing; it really is about what you’re used to.

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      1. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

        I was coming here to say this- I think it’s probably at least partly cultural since Americans eat A LOT less fish (and the fish we tend to eat is a lot less smelly/fishy tasting).

        That said, I made brats in the broiler on Saturday and I’m still smelling it in the house. Bacon and popcorn linger too. Some scents just are stronger than others.

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      2. Meat Oatmeal*

        I’ve never seen anyone say that about bacon before! I feel that way too! I find it mystifying because I think a lot of other meats smell appetizing, but I’ve never knowingly had bacon or pork of any kind, and it smells gross to me.

        Reply ↓
        1. Dog momma*

          Well since my surgery/ chemo 3 yrs ago I am MUCH more sensitive to oders. Particularly to meat cooking. it makes me gag..ended up with a permanent food aversion & apparently that’s common post chemo.
          so I don’t cook, I heat up in the oven. Husband cooks for himself and I hang out in the bedroom at that time.
          I can only eat hamburger, bacon, chicken, some fish and seafood. Basically plain. Its extremely boring. too bad it doesn’t include sweets lol. I have to stay away from that on my own.

          Reply ↓
      3. MigraineMonth*

        I don’t eat red meat anymore, but even when I did I didn’t like real bacon. (I preferred turkey bacon or bac’n bits.) It just tasted like a strip of fat to me.

        I really wish dishes would stop including *secret* bacon. I get that there’s a high chance of undisclosed bacon in split pea soup, clam chowder, breakfast potatoes and potato salad. If you decide to put it in other places, like seafood sandwiches or chocolate truffles, just label it as containing bacon!

        Reply ↓
    13. Charlotte Lucas*

      I worked in a call center where for the first few months I sat near the entrance, which was across the hall from the cafeteria. And there was an open doorway to each. I will take one microwaved fish over the 10am start to the regular Friday fish fry that I endured. (Cod was the worst, in case you’re wondering.)

      The rest of that year, I moved farther and farther from the door and was grateful for every move.

      Reply ↓
    14. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I realized recently that I don’t like the smell of fish cooking in any appliance. My friend invited me over weekly and she makes frozen beer battered fish or the Red Lobster biscuit coated fish in the oven. I think they are tasty. And I’m glad she makes them at her house. Because fish is stinky. Don’t like cooking it in my house. Totally smells “fishy” in her house. It’s weird. Anyone else like fish but hate the smell?

      Reply ↓
    15. Box of Kittens*

      This one caught my attention too, but mainly because apparently, this was happening in a cafeteria. I could understand the frustration with the smell much more if it was a small breakroom, but it sounds like this was a dedicated space for food big enough to be called a cafeteria, so I feel like warming up fish, while smelly, was an appropriate activity for the space. I probably would have just kept warming up my own food too, tbh (although without the petty notes about fish health, lol).

      Reply ↓
    16. metadata minion*

      Many people really, *really* do not like the smell of fish. I don’t understand it either; I actively like “fishier” varieties and am confused at all the hot tips for making fish not taste like fish. But it is definitely a Thing.

      Reply ↓
      1. Dog momma*

        In our hospital we had to get rid of popcorn dt the amt of burned popcorn.. people walking away.. that set off the smoke detectors and then the fire dept came.
        although my unit..CT ICU, had a coffee pot going 24/7. We all lived on coffee & had a 3 pit system. We were pretty good about it but once in a while, the SHTF..during a code, or fresh postop came back and people got busy..so dry pot set off the fire alarm. Fire chief was tired of all this & gave us holy hell. ( there are fines involved).
        So when the chief surgeon asked us what we wanted for Xmas, we looked at the Braun catalog and ordered the biggest, baddest, most expensive, most wonderful-its 6 pot coffee maker they made…and he didn’t blink an eye.

        Reply ↓
    18. The Petson from the Resume*

      There’s some great scientific explanations here.

      I do think that if non-fish meat is smelly, it’s usually gone bad. We say some fish we eat (not gone bad) still can smell really fishy. I think that supports the fish smell is stronger and lingers more that most non-fish meats even if you don’t personally think it smells bad.

      Reply ↓
      1. constant_craving*

        I dunno, I think that’s still a cultural bias. Chicken doesn’t have the strongest smell, but bacon, steak, etc. definitely are extremely smelly.

        Reply ↓
      2. Alma*

        I work with people from other non-white continents. Fish is fine, they haaaaate the smell of any pig product. Porc, Ham, Bacon all of it. They find it super strong, gross, and extremely lingering. They are very gracious and as the smell won’t hurt them, they don’t request bans.

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    19. Elle*

      IMO, it’s at least a bit cultural- it’s not really a commonly eaten lunch food for most caucasians (my favorite white lady business lunch of a Caesar salad with salmon and a white wine notwithstanding). I’ve worked a couple of places where 1) I was one of very few white people 2) a request not to microwave fish would be laughed out of the place or taken as culturally insensitive. I won’t pretend to know how seriously the scent of fish bothers folks, and assume it must be really bad for it to be such a regularly referenced rule, but personally I find it a bit precious and not terribly open-minded.

      Reply ↓
    20. Hroethvitnir*

      I think it’s cultural. I dislike the smell quite a bit, but I still pretty strongly disagree with disallowing “strong smelling” foods, whether it’s fish or staple foods of another culture.

      I don’t love how it lingers, but honestly I am weirdly sensitive to old food smell, so I’m low-key revolted by even cleanish office microwaves and fridges. That’s a me problem, and that’s how I regard the entire debate.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Eastern European and Italian immigrants used to be considered smelly (and thus unclean/uncivilized) because they ate so much garlic and onion.

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    21. The Bureaucrat*

      Microwaved fish smells so bad because it releases trimethylamine, a very pungent compound that forms when the fish’s natural trimethylamine oxide breaks down during heating. Microwaves tend to heat unevenly, which can cause parts of the fish to overcook and intensify the odor. The steam created during microwaving carries these smelly compounds into the air, and since microwaves do not ventilate well, the smell tends to linger. Fish oils and proteins also break down under heat, releasing other strong-smelling compounds and making the whole situation even worse.

      Basically, microwaving fish is like flipping on a fog machine that sprays eau de low tide.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Bureaucrat*

        I do not have any scientific basis for this, but I feel like when you are the one eating it, the aroma does not bother you as much. I love kimchi, but I had a co-worker eating some at her desk one day, and it almost caused a rebellion. If anyone in my household is eating blue cheese (which I love), the smell bothers me until I have a taste. That also gives me an excuse to pilfer some.

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        1. Just Another Cog*

          My husband likes to eat sauerkraut as a side for lunch. I love sauerkraut on, say, a Reuben, but the smell of it when he’s eating it is really gross. I think bringing something particularly smelly to work for lunch, whether it needs to be heated up or not, is kind of thoughtless.

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    22. AnotherOne*

      fish is generally considered to have a more pungent smell than other animal proteins, according to people I know who can smell.

      that said- I oddly wish they’d been more specific with the sign: no burning popcorn, no fish, whatever. because no strong smells could easily include curries (one of my favorite foods) and unless someone has a severe allergy, i think it becomes problematic to be “no curries cuz the smell.”

      Reply ↓
        1. Lab Boss*

          I’m adding that to my list of “surprisingly profound comments found in throwaway settings.”

          In return I shall give you a similar one from the list: “Nobody PLANS to pee their own pants.”

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    23. till Tuesday*

      I used to work near Seattle. A fair number of people caught their own fish and ate it. You could never say don’t microwave fish, because that was food for many.

      Reply ↓
    24. goddessoftransitory*

      When I come home from work and somebody in the apartment building has made fish, it is IMMEDIATELY apparent, throughout the whole building. It fades in due time, of course, but that smell is absolutely distinct from basically all other food smells to me.

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    25. Dust Bunny*

      What kind of fish are y’all microwaving, because I know my coworkers have microwaved fish but it doesn’t smell that strong, and it certainly doesn’t linger more than most other foods? I think it’s mostly lean white fishes, though, so maybe they don’t smell as much? I don’t recall ever having a fish smell problem here.

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    26. Dys*

      Perhaps a genetic thing! I’m pretty sensitive to fishiness. If someone before me has microwaved fish, I find my food takes on a element of fishiness. I thought it was just me imagining things but I took my food to a completely different area to eat it and there was still lingering fish-smell.
      It’s got to be something about the oils in the fish maybe?
      But yes, I struggle with microwaved fish smell and also the post-fish impact on others (but I’m not rude about it – everyone needs to eat! I just might wait a bit before microwaving my lunch)

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    27. Analyst*

      It smells horrible to me. But…I keep my mouth shut because this is a very cultural thing and if you start forbidding “smelly” foods you were into danger real fast.

      Also, if you fly in Southeast Asia, one of the in flight meals is often fish (cause again, cultural and fish is a primary food item there). That is worse than office microwave for me….

      Reply ↓
    28. merida*

      I feel the same! To me, microwaved fish doesn’t smell that bad. From a cultural sensitivity standpoint, I would feel badly asking someone not to microwave fish because I know I wouldn’t ask someone who eats Indian food or whatnot not to microwave it at work. I don’t like *eating* microwaved fish though – it’s a texture issue for me to the point I’d rather eat leftover fish cold – so props to people who can!

      Reply ↓
    31. TGIF*

      agreed! I had to smell people’s nasty broccoli heating up, and other nasty foods. You can deal with a little fish. I never microwaved fish personally but my husband used to all the time because I used to make a fish based meal for him every week. We got out of that habit though.

      Reply ↓
  3. Zona the Great*

    The bad annual report pages: I would have loved if one of her direct reports said something like, “can you believe the terrible design in our section of the report they made? Why on earth did they choose our department to look like it is run by children?”

    Reply ↓
    1. sunny*

      Or if someone innocently said “whoops, there’s a printer error and we need to return all the reports and get it redone.”

      Reply ↓
      1. tired designer*

        Yay, that one was my story! We actually did have to get one entire report reprinted… but that was because she (head of development) had forgotten to include the name of our literal biggest corporate donor (as in, over $100K) and missed the omission in multiple rounds of proofing. Of course, when this came out, she tried to blame me and claimed I deleted it accidentally at some late date… but, of course, I had the original document she sent me with that major donor missing, identical to her pages in the report.

        Reply ↓
          1. tired designer*

            She decided we had to implement a more thoroughly documented proofing process, where each person had to sign off on a checklist at each step so we could trace where mistakes were made. I think she intended it as a punishment (for me not taking responsibility for her mistake…?) but tbh it sounded like a great idea! Full accountability, and proof (pardon the pun) that she was not reviewing documents correctly! I left not long after so didn’t actually undergo a big project using the new system.

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  4. Ladycrim*

    Oh, office fish. My first full-time permanent job was in a half cubicle mere feet from a teeny tiny office kitchen. One day two people brought in a George Foreman grill (RIP George) and cooked fish in it. My office area stank to high heaven for the rest of the day.

    Reply ↓
    2. Landry*

      My current office has a similar setup. The kitchen feels crowded if more than two people are in there and the building is an old dump where smells seem to linger in general. On any given day the scents of garlic toast (prepared by the office manager in her personal toaster), various soups, ravioli, chicken, etc. permeate the building. It’s not nearly as scrumptious as it sounds.

      Reply ↓
    4. Wine Not Whine*

      I was once the fish microvaver.
      Once.
      I hadn’t ever worked somewhere with a microwave available (this was in the early 90s) and had no clue whatsoever that it was A Thing One Does Not Do. So at lunchtime on my third day at a new job, I merrily zapped and enjoyed my lunch, and went about my business.
      Apparently my blank-faced response to the general comments of “oh, SOMEONE must really enjoy their fish” was noticed, since the office manager eventually took me aside and advised me to consider the error of my ways…

      Reply ↓
      2. MigraineMonth*

        Could be worse. I had a friend who didn’t grow up with a microwave and encountered her first at work. She decided to heat up a hotdog for lunch.

        Savvy longtime microwavers will know that you should puncture hotdogs before putting them in the microwave so they don’t explode.

        Also, you should not put a single hotdog in the microwave for 10 minutes.

        Reply ↓
    3. Recently Promoted Cog*

      My org builds and maintains websites as part of oru outreach. We inherited an incredibly ugly awful one from a previous maintainer and launched an update. We have fabulous designers who are solid with information science and up on the best ways to organize a site for usability and accessibility (required by our funding).

      All of that was for naught put up against our project leader, an older guy who formed all his opinions about what a good informational website should look like in about 1998. Our main designer put up tons of resistance, explained the evidence for the efficacy of what he’d designed, pointed to user testing that showed the project leader’s idea of “great site” was not just outdated but offputting, showed how the leader’s proposal was counterintuitive and led to people not being able to find the information they need…

      In the end, though? We all just sighed and did what the leader wanted. To this day I cringe at parts of it, but it is what it is, I guess.

      Reply ↓
  7. LifebeforeCorona*

    #8 “temporary assistant district attorney intern” under the supervision of Office Manager: Please direct any and all work for “temporary assistant district attorney intern’ to OM for approval.

    Reply ↓
    1. LegallyBrunette*

      (Obligatory note that this was me.) Ha! If only I’d been that quick at 21 and picked that as *my* hill to die on!

      Reply ↓
      1. Old as Dirt Law Ma*

        Either a lot of local district attorney’s offices are the same across the US or we had the same office manager. You are younger than I am, so it’s probably that most local DA’s offices are their own little fiefdoms of incompetence.

        Reply ↓
        1. LegallyBrunette*

          The possibility that it was the same office is not zero, so we may have crossed paths! It was Pennsylvania, for reference.

          Fiefdoms of Incompetence – take my money, that’s a book I want to read!

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          2. linger*

            See Ch. 8 of C. N. Parkinson’s “The Law” (“Injelititis, or Palsied Paralysis”), which may sound eerily familiar:

            The first sign of danger is represented by the appearance in the organization’s hierarchy of an individual who combines […] a high concentration of incompetence and jealousy. [Parkinson terms this combination “injelitance”.] […N]ext […] the infected individual gains complete or partial control of the central organization.[…] The injelitant individual […] struggles to eject all those abler […and resists…] the appointment or promotion of anyone who might prove abler in course of time. […Thus…] The central administration gradually fills up with people stupider than the chairman, director, or manager.

            (Parkinson 1957: 79-80)

            Reply ↓
  8. many bells down*

    Microwaving fish: We have a small staff so in Thursdays I’m in the office alone 99% of the time. I thought I’d bring in some leftover salmon and rice since it was just me and no one would know I was committing the Office Cardinal Sin.

    That was the Thursday literally half the staff decided to come in for some reason. Including one person who was fasting for Ramadan.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      Commenter Kyrielle left this pro-tip on the original microwaving fish thread if you’re ever in a similar situation again:

      you know what works a treat? Heat one of those single-serve cups of rice and put your cold fish on it or mix it in. It will warm the fish up enough to enjoy if you prefer it warm, but not to the degree that it stinks up the area.

      Reply ↓
      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I do that with most protein leftovers, honestly. Nuke the inoffensive parts and mix in the meat while the rice is still too hot to eat.

        Reply ↓
        1. I'm great at doing stuff*

          Yes, me too! Also I personally cannot stand microwaved chicken…it gets overcooked and disgusting really quickly.

          Reply ↓
  9. YRH*

    Re #10

    A new assistant principle showed up at my high school one year. She came from another high school in the large urban school district. The district dress code at my high school had never been enforced while it was at other schools. At the beginning of the year assembly, she said “shower shoes” (flip flops) would be banned at the school. The next day, the entire school showed up in flip flops.

    Reply ↓
    1. Samwise*

      Those are actually a health/safety hazard and there may actually be laws or district regulations against it (because, lawsuits). I got detention for that…

      Reply ↓
      2. porridge fan*

        Didn’t Alison break her foot while wearing a flip-flop style shoe? ’twas many years ago, so I am fuzzy on the details.

        Reply ↓
      3. AnReAr*

        Yeah, my schools didn’t really enforce it until a friend of mine ended up going to the ER one afternoon due to an injury caused by her flip flop getting caught while opening a door. That was about 20 years ago, and all through the near decade of the rest of our school career none of us ever questioned restrictions on open toe footwear again. Even the ones who hadn’t gone to that school understood after being told the story by witnesses.

        I do wear flip flops all the time now, but change to real shoes if I’m going to do more walking than just a leisurely stroll through the backyard. Or going to someplace I know has big heavy metal doors like that school did.

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    2. Knighthope*

      A middle school principal caused an uproar when she declared on the PA, “Students may not wear thongs!” Teachers were laughing, kids were saying “WHAT??? Can she do that???” “How would she check???” A long pause, indistinct talking.
      “I mean FLIPFLOPS!”

      Reply ↓
      1. Percysowner*

        I remember when flip flops were called “thongs”. It was many years ago and Victoria’s Secret was several years in the future. Let’s just say that fancy underwear was not part of the cultural zeitgeist and definitely not in high school.

        Reply ↓
          2. RLC*

            Once had an office lunchtime discussion of childhood bicycling mishaps get very entertaining when one colleague said “wasn’t it horrible when you were pedaling your bike along and got your thong caught on the pedal?” The looks on many faces immediately revealed the multiple meanings of “thong”, as another colleague asked the first one “HOW DID YOU DO THAT??????”
            The lunchroom crowd collapsed into laughter for many, many minutes after that.

            Reply ↓
        2. Freya*

          Still are, in Australia :-D

          Thong originally refers to the thin strip of whatever is being made into cord or lacing (usually leather – thong and thonging are still commonly used for the leather cords used in jewellery making to string things on). For the footwear it’s the cord between your toes, for the underwear it’s the cord between your buttcheeks.

          Reply ↓
          1. happybat*

            That little cultural difference caused consternation in a friend’s office in Scotland after they were bought out by an Australian company.

            There are about 20 minutes in the middle of June in Scotland when it’s warm enough for flipflops, so they are really not seen even for casual office wear. The appearance of ‘thongs’ on the new banned clothing list led to some very careful conversations…

            Reply ↓
  10. HB*

    To be fair to the employees in #3, those items *were* awfully scarce at times for a while so maybe their anxiety manifested as a cost concern, but it was caused by something else.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      Some of my coworkers took the gigantic commercial rolls of toilet paper home for this very reason! Cost saving may have been part of it, but the main reason was because they couldn’t find it on the store shelves.

      I remember some over-zealous senior leader wanting to reprimand people for the “theft,” but thankfully the CEO shut that done immediately, empathetically understanding the desperation that would lead people to taking home ten-inch diameter rolls of TP.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lisa*

        There was a period where the only place you could find TP, was that Costco had the big commercial rolls stocked (since businesses weren’t buying it). At one point I thought reeeeeally hard about buying a pack.

        Reply ↓
        1. Black horse*

          In mid-April 2020, my brother’s friend found a deal on TP from Amazon. It seemed a little steep for 8 rolls, but that was when toilet paper was (very) tough to come by, and they were desperate. This stuff was available, and could be delivered in a couple day, so they went for it.

          Two days later he sends me a photo of his (disgusted-looking) husband holding an enormous roll of industrial TP. Of which they now had 8 rolls.

          They ended up rigging some ridiculous holder in their bathroom and tried to just laugh.

          Reply ↓
        2. Another Kristin*

          I remember flour was the same way – you could only find 20kg restaurant-sized bags. I bought one of those and it lasted for months, even with all the anxiety baking!

          Reply ↓
      2. Middle Name Jane*

        In all the places I’ve worked that had those commercial rolls of toilet paper, each stall had a locked dispenser and no extra rolls were sitting around. Someone could have broken into one if they wanted a roll that badly, I guess.

        I remember how weird it felt to see empty shelves everywhere for months. I buy paper products and other staples at a warehouse club, and I was okay on supplies, but it was months before I saw any toilet paper in a store. I finally bought 2 packages of generic toilet paper to keep in case of emergency. They are still in my bathroom closet.

        Reply ↓
        1. LifebeforeCorona*

          One of my favourite pandemic memories was watching someone trying to fit 3 or 4 Costco size TP and paper towels into their small car along with all their other goods bought in anticipation of future shortages. I was an essential worker so by the time I finished work, most stores were closed because of reduced hours. By pure chance I bought my yearly Costco TP the week before the shutdown began.

          Reply ↓
    2. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

      While I think TP and hand soap is a bit extreme, it was pretty eggregious how many companies just blithely pushed the expenses of working onto employees at the beginning of the pandemic. Many folks’ wifi/internet was not truly up to the task. I worked with many people whose homes were just not geared for all-day/every day productive work (lack of private, quiet spaces; lack of quality internet connections; poor office furniture from an ergonomics perspective; poor / no computer peripherals like monitors).

      Does it compare to the people who had to go into their work locations and risk getting sick? No, of course not. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for employees to have expected *something* from employers who suddenly didn’t have to shell out money for those operating costs and did nothing to bridge the gap with their employees, either.

      Reply ↓
      1. Parrhesia25*

        We had some people using TVs as second monitors until IT was convinced that, no, this was not going to be over in a couple of weeks.

        At least where I was there was never any shortage of hand soap, or at least bar soap. That surprised me.

        And one of the advantages of reading non-mainstream news sources was that I was aware COVID was coming soon enough to do my normal TP stock-up early so I avoided the worst of the TP shortages.

        Reply ↓
        1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

          Yeah, where I work – we were at the spear’s tip of offices where workers were being sent home (we literally got the notice about 4 hours after the two largest employers locally announced they were sending folks home). We ended up getting that notice after working hours had ended, so many of us left our personal effects at the office and could not collect them for days or even weeks.

          Reply ↓
        2. El Muneco*

          My team had a contributor who was in China during the very early stages of the outbreak. They self-quarantined after coming back based on the prevailing recommendation at the time, and we had to clear that with HR. Not only did HR say that it was a great idea, I think it gave them a leg up for later when company closed down our offices early and decisively (and started things off with a subsidy to build a home office!).

          Reply ↓
      2. Kendall^Sq*

        Otoh, the office supplies/soap/toilet paper expenses was probably fully mitigated by the lack of commuting costs…

        Reply ↓
        1. constant_craving*

          Depends how you commute. My commute didn’t cost me anything except time, so cutting it out didn’t save me any money.

          Reply ↓
          1. The Bill Murray Disagreement*

            Also, that commuting time was taken up with back-to-back virtual meetings. I’d argue that means companies were getting a hell of a lot more out of us than we got out of any time or $$$ savings.

            Reply ↓
      3. I Have RBF*

        My employer during Covid provided an Internet stipend to help cover the broadband cost. Most of my remote employers have provided at the bare minimum a laptop, and some also provided keyboard monitor and mouse.

        I saved $100/week in gas alone by WFH, plus my insurance dropped by a lot. An extra bundle of TP per month did not even touch that savings.

        Reply ↓
      4. Ace in the Hole*

        “I worked with many people whose homes were just not geared for all-day/every day productive work”

        Story time! During covid, my job required about 50% on-site physical work and 50% office work. So my employer told me to work from home 3 days per week and do all my office stuff from home. Problems:

        1. Most of my office work required frequent communication with operations workers who I could only contact face to face.

        2. They issued me a desktop computer only. No monitor, keyboard, or mouse.

        3. My internet and power went out every time we had a heavy rainstorm… in the Pacific Northwest.

        4. I lived in a tiny apartment. The only place to set up my “home office” was the dinner table. Again, this was a DESKTOP PC. Not something I could exactly clear off when we wanted to use the table!

        5. The apartment was so tiny, when I was sitting at my “desk” my roommates couldn’t get to the bathroom.

        6. My cat likes to eat cords and sit on keyboards. I wasted at least 3 hours every day trying to work around Fluffy.

        The kicker is, we actually had an unused office in a shed on site that I could work from while keeping complete separation from everyone else! It wasn’t a very comfortable workspace, but it was a million times better than working from home. It still took me five months to convince them to let me come back on site full time.

        Reply ↓
  11. Rogue Slime Mold*

    #9 We’ve begged them to just change the startup settings so CC isn’t a startup app but they refuse to budge. No one knows why.

    I really hope the answer is “counterfeiting.” Or some other crime with a graphic design element.

    Reply ↓
    1. CeeDoo*

      Teams automatically starts on our computers, and it won’t close — it just minimizes unless you right click and Quit Teams. None of the teachers use it. But the administrators do, so we all have to deal with the startup delay so the overpaid people can have the convenience of not having to click on the icon.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blue Spoon*

        I think Teams does that by default. I know it started trying to pull that on my personal laptop and I had to get into some settings fights to get it to stop.

        Reply ↓
      2. Hroethvitnir*

        Oo, so I tried blocking Teams on startup and it didn’t work, but *actually* (at least at my org), if you click on your profile on the top right, it will take you to settings and allow you to turn off automatic startup.

        My not particularly computer savvy coworker was stoked to show me that. <3 You do have to do it on every computer separately if you use multiple, but it's so worth it.

        Reply ↓
      3. Ally McBeal*

        Unless you’re blocked from changing the settings, it’s extremely easy to change this – it’s the very first option when you navigate to Settings.

        Reply ↓
    2. Ama*

      What most confused me about that story is that they seem to be paying for an Adobe license for everyone and no one is even using it! Those licenses are not cheap!

      Reply ↓
      1. a perfectly normal-sized space bird*

        That’s what I don’t get either. Each team has 12-17 members, only the four members at my level are granted a CC license. But there’s four teams to a resource group, there’s six resource groups to a project, there’s five projects to a client. That’s almost 500 licenses not being used for just one client out of a dozen clients I can name of off the top of my head.

        But if there’s one thing I know about my employer, it’s that they will spend boatloads of money on thing no one will use (see: slushie machine), then say they can’t afford raises.

        Reply ↓
  12. James Smith*

    @LW8: I feel this nonsense in my bones. I was a contract employee at a major utility and they refurbed the offices, which included providing everybody with one of those triangular metal things with our names engraved on it to put on our desks. There were 20 of us in the open-plan office, arranged in four groups of 5 desks in circles. There was nowhere to put the name plate.

    I asked that they not provide me with one. My contract was up and I wasn’t staying. It was a waste of money to get me one (even more than it was for everyone else). But asking to *not* have one invited everybody to weigh in whether I should have one or not.

    After much drama and one person in another team threatening to quit because I was getting one, eventually it arrived. “TEMPORARY JAMESMITH” [sic] it read.

    My contract ended 5 days later and I left leaving it behind. Three months after that, in the post I received the name plate thing with an anonymous post-it note saying “SINCE THIS WAS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU” stuck to it. I recognised the handwriting of the “I’ll quit if he gets one” person.

    I’m glad for her that she won or sorry that she lost that battle.

    Reply ↓
      1. Lenora Rose*

        I have no idea where most of my coworkers live other than generic things like [Hipster Neighbourhood] or [Outside City Limits], to the point of learning that one had finally managed a planned move about 3 months after it happened. But I do know which system holds that info where, and had to dig it up to send a couple of people condolences bouquets. It’s not that creepy to mail a package that way; the unhinged bit is that she apparently lost the plot in thinking he even wanted it.

        Reply ↓
    3. LegallyBrunette*

      @James Smith, from one (former) temporary to another, my deepest sympathy! I’m still struggling with the mental geometry of the desks… that were facing other desks in the circle… that needed name tags?

      Reply ↓
    4. Pay no attention...*

      I’m petty enough to mail it back with a note “Bless your heart. You completely missed the point that I was arguing NOT to have one.”

      Reply ↓
  13. Goose*

    I used to steal industrial size toilet paper from my college buildings when I was a student. I’ve stolen a few boxes of tissues at a job where I was forced to come in sick and didn’t have time to go to the drug store.

    Reply ↓
    1. goddessoftransitory*

      I remember Janine Garafalo doing a standup routine about stealing big rolls of TP from McDonald’s bathrooms; one person wears a bulky coat while another stands outside the door making distracting birdcalls.

      Reply ↓
  14. Who me?*

    Besides microwaving fish, there should be a fine for burning popcorn in the microwave. You can smell that stuff all over our building and the odor lasts for hours.

    Reply ↓
    1. MagicEyes*

      My former (not missed) coworker burned fish in the microwave. The stench was so thick you could cut it with a knife! It took days for the smell to go away, even with the hall doors open and fans running.

      Reply ↓
    2. Seal*

      One library I worked in banned microwave popcorn entirely after a string of burned batches triggered the fire alarms three times in less than a month. Because libraries are full of very flammable items, whenever the fire alarm went off the local fire department would sent a whole fleet of fire trucks within minutes. However, if it was a false alarm, the library had to cover the fire department’s expenses (which were not cheap) for the response. The building manager, with the director’s blessing, finally sent out a message to all staff members that said in essence “since a few of you idiots can’t can’t pop popcorn without burning it, no one can have it!”. There was more than a little grumbling about the ban itself but everyone agreed it was good to know how quickly the fire department responded to a fire alarms.

      Reply ↓
    3. Coverage Associate*

      Odor lasts for days. I did it after hours on a Friday once, and you could still smell it on Monday, especially if you knew what it was.

      I’ve done sufficient penance since.

      Reply ↓
    4. Toots La'Rue*

      Also like… why are people burning popcorn so regularly?? Do you do that at home too, so you just think microwaved popcorn burns every time and that’s just the way it is?

      PSA for those who don’t know: don’t just hit the popcorn button and leave, it will almost certainly burn. Hit the popcorn button but wait nearby to listen for the popping to slow, when you’re at a few seconds between pops that’s when you stop the microwave. Usually there will be a little time left. (This is on every microwave popcorn bag I’ve ever seen, but I’ve switched to a silicon popper and loose kernels and this is the method there too).

      Reply ↓
        1. Toots La'Rue*

          And that’s fair because it was how you liked it! I don’t mind it a little crumbly sometimes when I’m in the right mood either.

          Reply ↓
    5. Office Gumby*

      I burned popcorn in the staff microwave ONCE. Luckily, nobody was in the office, and the stench did not linger long.

      But I was a regular popcorn popper, not only because I love it, but also out of subtle rebellion. The delicious scent of popcorn would drift throughout the entire floor, distracting everyone. I loved committing that annoyance.

      Reply ↓
    6. TGIF*

      They banned popcorn when I worked in a call center. Sigh. I KNOW how to microwave popcorn without burning but because some other numbskulls didn’t we all had to lose.

      Reply ↓
    7. Retired State Worker*

      When I worked for a state agency back about a decade ago, one morning in early January (in the middle of a polar vortex outbreak) one of the attorneys burned her popcorn and set off the building’s fire alarms.

      As required by agency policy, all 1,200 of us in the building dutifully marched to our wintertime evacuation site, which happened to be the State Capitol Building a block away, where we hung out waiting for the fire department to assess the situation and allow us to return to our desks.

      Well, it must have been a slow news day, because that unplanned evacuation was photographed and picked up by the wire services. Headlines reading “State Employees Flee to Warm Capitol” could be found in all major US media markets that afternoon, complete with photos. And of course they named both the agency and the agency Secretary in the stories.

      We later heard that the attorney whose popcorn burned had a most unpleasant conversation with the agency Secretary, who himself had apparently also had an equally unpleasant conversation with the Governor.

      And from that day forward, all popcorn of all types was permanently banned in that state office building.

      Reply ↓
    1. Rogue Slime Mold*

      It’s step one of one of those heists where you get a crowd of identically dressed people within which the thieves can vanish.

      Reply ↓
        1. Spooz*

          Yes! I was reading this thinking “10/10 to that CEO!” If you want a really specific dress code, you have to be willing to finance and facilitate it.

          Reply ↓
        2. I Have RBF*

          Seriously. Wanting business formal suits as a dress code sucks, but the suckage is much, much less if the company buys the suits to their specs.

          Reply ↓
        3. Just Another Cog*

          Well, maybe. I mean, getting a paid-for work wardrobe would be ok, but in the 80’s, I worked for a bank where they “gave” us 10 mix ‘n match pieces that were truly awful. We were all 20-somethings and whoever chose the clothing was probably in her 60’s. They were 100% double-knit polyester bright blue, green, red and yellow with some pieces that had giant prints like birds of paradise and toucans on them. They were so ugly and ill-fitting. I was glad to turn in my wardrobe when I left there.

          Reply ↓
    2. MusicWithRocksIn*

      All I can think is how much pressure that would create not to gain or lose weight. Like, you only get work clothes every two years, and they are expensive? That would cause me so much stress. You can’t plan to lose weight because then what happens when your work clothes don’t fit? And if you gain weight you have to go tell your boss you are getting too fat for work pants. That sounds like a nightmare. I can’t even imagine what the process is if someone gets pregnant.

      Reply ↓
      2. The Formatting Queen*

        > I can’t even imagine what the process is if someone gets pregnant.

        Surely at a conservative, old-school company like that they just expect you to quit so you can be a stay-at-home mom.

        Reply ↓
      3. LJ*

        I understand there are a variety of situations and body types, but I must say I’ve been blessed with a stable enough body weight that clothes do not just stop fitting within two years. I was imagining 90% of the cases can be taken care of through minor alterations over (only) two years, but I don’t know – are there a lot of adults that routinely need new sizes every year?

        Reply ↓
        1. lanfy*

          Depending on your shape and fat distribution, it may only take a few pounds to change sizes. A lot of ‘professional’ styles are extremely unforgiving if you have large hips, for example; and if you have large hips and also tend to put weight on your hips, a pencil skirt will stop fitting very quickly.

          Reply ↓
          1. AnReAr*

            And additionally, some of us with ovaries get to experience some fun bloating at regular intervals. I actually go up an entire pant size during. It’s also not unheard of for those suffering from PCOS to have their actual uterus get swollen and mimic pregnancy.

            Reply ↓
    3. Silvercat*

      Chase bank does it. Not everyone is in a suit, but all their clothes are in the Chase Bank colors and I remember the ties especially having the Chase logo as a pattern (it’s a round shape so it’s easy to make it look like a normal tie pattern)

      Reply ↓
    5. Silver Robin*

      yeah but I do give them credit for paying for the clothes that they require people to wear, making them high quality, AND updating them every two years. Absurd standard but not the worst way to implement it

      Reply ↓
  16. H.Regalis*

    Hothead’s nickname was very apt O_o

    I hope he has calmed the fuck down a bit now because he sounds scary.

    Reply ↓
    1. Observer*

      Hothead’s nickname was very apt

      To put it mildly. But lets hope that the firing started the process of him getting some help. Because he really does sound scary. And I hope he got the help *before* he actually hurt someone.

      Reply ↓
    4. Anon4This*

      I was the one who shared this story on the original post; he was definitely scary. Unfortunately, Hothead didn’t calm down any after this incident. He had a couple of run-ins with law enforcement and a road rage incident that led to charges against him. He served his time via work release. He had a fatal heart attack a few years later.

      Reply ↓
      1. Morty*

        Good god :-(
        Like, I can’t even imagine going through life THAT angry ALL THE TIME that even prison didn’t get you to dial it down a notch. That you’re such a 24/7/365 ball of rage that finally God is like, “(sigh). Yep, just gotta call it on this one. Scrap the whole kit and start over.”

        Reply ↓
      2. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

        As enjoyable as all the stories were, I think you understood the assignment the best. Hothead not only chose a weird hill to die on, he defended that hill at the cost of his career, self-defeatingly ensuring he would never again appear in the newsletter he was so desperate to appear in.

        Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, with the possible exception of the Espresso Machine guy, I think this is the only “hill to die on” that resulted in a firing.

          Reply ↓
    5. I'm great at doing stuff*

      Right? All I could think of is that scene from Anchorman when Ron Burgundy says, “Well, that escalated quickly.”

      Reply ↓
  17. WellRed*

    Exactly how “extravagant” a purchase is an espresso machine? I’m guessing quite a bit for an individual, not so much for a company.

    Reply ↓
    1. Who knows*

      Depends on the machine and how long ago this was. Only in recent years have <$1,000 home machines become available. Industrial ones cost like $10,000.

      Reply ↓
        1. Old as Dirt Law Ma*

          We got a very basic home espresso machine for our wedding almost 24 years ago and I guarantee you no one spent more than $200 for an individual present. Maybe a couple of guests went in together to buy it for us, I really can’t remember, but I know I wouldn’t have registered for anything approaching even $500 back then.

          Reply ↓
          1. Lenora Rose*

            Now I’m trying to remember if we got our first espresso machine as a wedding gift; I think it was someone else’s wedding social* prize, though, as it doesn’t feel like it went all the way back to 2006. I know the current one is younger than my daughter, but older than my son, which is where I derived the “decade” from.

            *If you don’t know, big fundraiser party for a wedding, usually with a raffle as the centrepiece. If you do know what these are, you can probably narrow down where I live to the province.

            Reply ↓
    2. Hoary Vervain*

      As the person who used to stock the coffee and other supplies in an office, I assure you that if the company is also providing coffee, milk, cups, etc., that can get real expensive real fast, even compared to regular drip coffee (which you can buy in industrial quantities of pre-portioned packs and serve with that lovely room-temp-stable creamer in tiny plastic containers).

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Plus, add on “people who have no idea how to steam milk/clean the wand” to the Odor Complaint Column.

        Reply ↓
        1. Freya*

          We acquired an espresso machine when my in-laws were getting rid of theirs to get a better one, because coffees made with it had a weird taste. When we got it, we gave it a full strip down and clean, because that’s what you do with new-to-you kitchen equipment… We found that my father-in-law had never actually taken the plastic cover thingy off the metal milk frother, under the assumption that the plastic was part of it (he was the only person who used the coffee machine in their house). Once the milk frother and the plastic cover were scrubbed clean and disinfected, the funny taste to the coffee disappeared.

          Reply ↓
    3. Disappointed with the Staff*

      The cost isn’t the sticker, the cost is the staff time to use it and especially to clean it. One place I worked had a proper cafe-style one and every new employee who wanted to use it had to have a half hour lesson on how to use it and especially how to clean it. Then there was a cleaning roster, and discussion about the cleaning roster, and the hour a week someone spent doing the actual cleaning (which it did need, but it’s staff time that’s not productive for the company). I assume there were similar all-coffee-hands meetings about which beans to buy etc.

      It makes “put your dirty cups in the dishwasher” seem benign.

      Reply ↓
    4. OP #5*

      To be fair, we are not a for-profit company and we do have a certain obligation to be frugal with our spending. That said, I’ve seen other organizations with a similar purpose that still decided it was worth buying one, and the espresso machine would certainly have been far cheaper than the renovation.

      Reply ↓
    5. Tiger Snake*

      And yet despite all the very good points of Difficulties That Come With An Office Espresso Machine – if a company wants people to use a shared space, providing attractive amenities is still the way to do it. For all he chose an odd hill to die on, the department head did had the right solution for making the space what they had wanted it to be in the first place.

      Reply ↓
  18. Yes And*

    Re #3: The coworkers may have taken it to a ridiculous extreme, but… they’re not wrong. People newly working from home did absorb more costs in tiny increments during those first days of COVID – not just TP, but electricity, heating/cooling, water, anything that’s paid by usage that was now getting used 40 more hours per week. Given the scarcity and inflation that also took place around then, it would be hard to estimate the total business cost absorbed by employees, but I imagine some enterprising economist has done it? (Reminder to myself to Google this later.)

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      They saved on commuting and gained some time. For bigger stuff sure, for TP, no. Petty or indicative of a larger dissatisfaction with the company.

      Reply ↓
      1. Pipper*

        WellRed, Increased costs for electricity which costs go up by usage not necessarily petty…if one normally has a very tight budget those increases can impact you and beyond the lower commute costs. Not everyone has the same budget or money flexibility.

        Reply ↓
    2. I Have RBF*

      So, at least for me, the costs I absorbed were maybe a couple hundred bucks a month. But I saved at least $500 on gasoline and car insurance, not to mention the value of my 2.5 hours per day of commuting.

      Sure, the company saves on CRE, HVAC, office IT infrastructure and consumables. The employee has a slight increase in consumables like TP and heating/cooling/network. But I have to do a lot of heating/cooling at my house even if I’m not there, and my TP didn’t go up that much. I still came out ahead, and so did the company.

      Reply ↓
    3. Coverage Associate*

      My employer during Covid rented office space, like most office based employers. The building eventually took to turning off heating and cooling unless we told them someone would be in the office on a certain day. Before I learned that we could ask for heat, I bought long underwear because sitting in the fog all day in office clothes was not comfortable with no heat, even in San Francisco.

      When the office fully opened, the pandemic inspired HVAC “improvements” had cut the fan to my wing of the office. I didn’t complain until it got to 80 degrees. (I had a thermometer from an old job with similar issues.) That was the day I interviewed for my new job. (Just turned out that way, though the heat was especially unbearable in a suit.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Coverage Associate*

        I got distracted by the hvac problems. I meant to add that the building didn’t lower the rent according to its reduced utilities, which would have been a savings that the employer could have passed on in employee bonuses or stipends.

        There was less travel and catered lunches and such during Covid, but my employer didn’t have big overhead savings at the beginning. Later, they laid people off, though.

        Reply ↓
  19. e271828*

    #9 I wonder whether the IT department screwed up an install and made Adobe CC a default startup app and then didn’t know how to uninstall it…

    Reply ↓
    1. Percy Weasley*

      That would be hilarious! I am not in IT and have yet to figure out how to either delete this or remove it as a startup app. It’s terrible and I hate it and have vowed to not use Adobe on my next computer.

      Reply ↓
    2. Percy Weasley*

      That’s hilarious! I haven’t yet figured out how to disable Adobe as a startup app, but I’m not in IT.

      Reply ↓
  20. Mouse named Anon*

    Someone at a former company of mine microwaved the stinkiest dish, I have ever smelled. It was a combo of fish, a stinky veggie like cabbage/Brussel sprouts and raw sewage. Nearly every person came out of the office gagging. Someone puked. We also worked in a part of the building with very few windows.

    Reply ↓
  21. Graphic Designer Here*

    #7 – “She was happy. I was not, but I was tired.” From one graphic designer to another – this is basically the mantra that gets all of us by! I’ve been doing a newsletter for a nonprofit since 2014. They refuse to budge on any new design elements. All must be the same as it was in 2014.

    #9 – I do use all the creative cloud apps and I would hate it if ANY of them were forced start up apps! I feel your pain on this.

    Reply ↓
    1. LunaLena*

      Also a graphic designer here. I did the monthly newsletter for a non-profit for ten years and had the same experience. The only change was when the editor retired and the new editor (a volunteer who had been with the org for decades) asked me to switch to an even older version of the header image. He liked it better because it was the one that had been in use when he was an officer of the org.

      The tiredness is just a normal part of life for me these days.

      Reply ↓
    2. Generic Name*

      I’m just a scientist, but I like to think I have a decent appreciation for good design. I feel a lot of sympathy for the graphics folks at non-graphics/visual/artistic companies. My last company was the woooorst for this kind of thing. The founder/owner/CEO loved “fall colors” and our branding had the muddiest, poopiest, color schemes. It was so bad. And she seemed stuck in the 90s in terms of visual aesthetics. At least she didn’t make us use Comic Sans.

      Reply ↓
    1. SicktomyStomach*

      Thank you! He’s been gone for a long time now, and getting this story posted and seeing all the comments is making me a little misty-eyed. It keeps his memory alive.

      Reply ↓
    1. I'm great at doing stuff*

      If anyone watched the fantastic show A Man on the Inside, you can totally see this being a Thing at a senior center!

      Reply ↓
      1. Storm in a teacup*

        If it was A Man On The Inside the argument would be more likely because they wouldn’t have been allowed to bring their booze to the track so a couple of them had sneaked in hip flasks

        Reply ↓
  24. Ex manager*

    (Tilts head) Walking a track clockwise feels…wrong. Not rebel at work wrong, mind you. Just, fell into the wrong universe wrong.

    Reply ↓
    1. Roland*

      Yeah, that would be really odd! Tracks are just Counterclockwise Always Areas. I mean look at any sporting event with a track. Weird thing to be up in arms about, but I could see myself agreeing in theory but failing in practice.

      Reply ↓
      1. Angstrom*

        At one rink I skated at, direction was reversed every 20 minutes during open skate. I liked that. At another, it was always counterclockwise, and by the end of an hour I felt lopsided. My right crossovers got a lot less practice than my left ones.

        Line of dance is always counterclockwise in the US. I’ve never seen an attempt to reverse that.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ace in the Hole*

          When I did track & field in school, we’d switch directions two days per week to help prevent chronic injury from always turning the same way.

          Reply ↓
      2. allathian*

        Yes, and there’s a reason for it. Most people are right handed and right legged, and it’s apparently easier/faster to run if your dominant leg makes the larger step in the curve.

        Other track events that have nothing to do with human preferences that nevertheless run counter clockwise include trotting/pacing horse racing and car racing on oval tracks (NASCAR).

        By now, it’s an established tradition that I can’t imagine changing.

        Reply ↓
        1. lanfy*

          I am here to tell you that that ‘larger step’ logic works less well if your right leg is 2cm shorter than your left.

          Reply ↓
    2. Lisa*

      Every gym I’ve been to reverses on different days eg. clockwise M-W-F-Sat and counterclockwise on Sun-Tue-Th.

      Reply ↓
    3. Silvercat*

      I wonder if it’s a national thing? I know carousels (US)/ merry go round (UK) in the UK and the US go in opposite directions

      Reply ↓
      2. londonedit*

        Nope, I’ve done a fair amount of running round a track here in the UK (not in any sort of impressive way, just as part of training sessions with my running club!) and we run anti-clockwise round the track too (we do call it anti-clockwise rather than counterclockwise, though).

        Reply ↓
      3. Dog momma*

        Merry go round is what we’ve always called it. I’m in the US. Never heard carousel til I moved 3 hrs away

        Reply ↓
        1. Evan Þ*

          Also in the US, and I’ve always heard “merry-go-round” for the things in playgrounds that kids push themselves by muscle power, and “carousel” for the larger adult- and motor-operated varieties.

          Reply ↓
    4. Teapot Connoisseuse*

      For me it’s the other way around. This might tally with all the rest of my weirdnesses, though.

      Reply ↓
        1. Lenora Rose*

          This is in fact a thing you hear, that turning counter-clockwise (Widdershins) is bad luck and/or witchcraft*, and that spells involve going that way.

          * both the Hallowe’en kind Evangelists claim to be scared of and the Wiccan kind that reclaimed some of its aspects.

          Reply ↓
        2. MigraineMonth*

          Widdershins means counter-clockwise (or lefthandwise, or the opposite of the motion of the sun as viewed from the northern hemisphere). It is thus considered unlucky (and possibly contrary, wrong, sinister and/or associated with black magic).

          Reply ↓
  25. Throwing Birthday Cake at Each Other*

    My hill, is throwing birthday cake at each other. Cake was acquired for birthdays, happy birthday was sung, cake was cut, and people proceeded throw or put cake on each other – typically hair, face, upper body. HR employees participated. I tried to be out of the office when it happened, or at least stay well away from the kitchen area. And I started telling people that I did not consent to having any cake put on my body, that if they approached me that would constitute an assault, and if they threw any threw any cake on me they would be committing a battery. I worked as a temp attorney at the place.

    Reply ↓
    2. Not The Real Strategic Snorer*

      I would Lose. My. MIND!!!
      I could never understand the wedding cake assault thing, but this, THIS is even more offensive. Wow

      Reply ↓
      1. Bruce*

        When my late wife and I married she made it clear that any cake shoved into her face would call for an annulment and a trip to the ER, and she had the black-belt to back it up with. Not that I had any desire to engage in cake shoving. Remarried now to another widowed person, the discussion this time did not include warnings of physical violence but went along the same line. We had friends that practiced the “push your kid’s face into the cake” tradition, but they never tried it on our kids…

        Reply ↓
        1. Hot Flash Gordon*

          It’s such an agro move, IMO. Imagine demonstrating how little you like your new spouse by humiliating them on one of the biggest days of their life.

          Reply ↓
    4. goddessoftransitory*

      WTAF???? What office full of presumably grown adults does this??

      You can bet the CEO/higher ups would be getting my cleaning bill.

      Reply ↓
    5. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

      My college roommate’s lab-mates did this for birthdays and explained it as a culture difference (although they refrained from getting any on her when she asked not). Interesting to see it again!

      Reply ↓
    6. Good Enough For Government Work*

      I am INFAMOUSLY laid back and game for a laugh, with a built-in resistance to taking the world seriously, but ‘cake thrown at me’ would be a hill I would absolutely quit on

      Reply ↓
    7. MigraineMonth*

      I’m a weirdo who would probably agree to be pie’d in the face for a good cause, and this is just bizarre. Every birthday y’all just had a food fight? And this was just considered a normal part of the culture??

      Reply ↓
  26. Festively Dressed Earl*

    LW #9, how many people are in the office? I wonder if someone breaking down the amount of time wasted in salary terms would get IT to back off.

    Say there are 20 people in the office. For easy numbers, say the average salary is $40/hr. That means that the company is sacrificing $10 per employee per day at the altar of almighty CC – on a good day. $200 per day, $1000 per week, $52K per year.

    That’s faster computers for the whole department. That’s another IT tech to help set them up, or an office assistant to support everyone. That’s an epic company-wide weekly luncheon. That’s an additional lactation room. That’s a quarterly puppy jamboree with gourmet cupcakes. That’s an AAM worthy company party. What exactly is Adobe Creative Cloud doing that could compete with that?

    Reply ↓
    1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Charging a per-user license fee that someone’s applied the sunk-cost fallacy to? “We have paid for this license (for software that you never use), so by George, it will be loaded on your computer or we will have Wasted Money!” (At $90/license paid monthly, that’s another $21,600/year for those 20 people.)

      Reply ↓
      1. post script*

        This is what I don’t get. Beyond the oddity of installing and enforcing it on a bunch of people that don’t use it on machines that can’t handle it, are they also paying the monthly fees for all those seats in Creative Cloud? There have got to be cheaper ways to make your users miserable.

        Reply ↓
          1. Festively Dressed Earl*

            Microsoft Teams would be cheaper misery than hiring Hothead from #1, but far less cost efficient than microwaving fish.

            Reply ↓
          2. Observer*

            Yeah, Teams often gets bundled into an Office license. So it’s not that much of a cost. And even at full cost, it tends to be a LOT cheaper than CC. And it’s not wildly unreasonable to think that everyone in the place needs to have some sort of texting / messaging app. But there are *very* few scenarios where I can think of a reason why *everyone* would need CC.

            Very, very weird.

            Reply ↓
        2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          I wonder if they’re using it for the cloud storage and activity reporting. I believe you can roll that part out even if you don’t have license seats for specific applications for everyone.

          Still annoying, of course.

          Reply ↓
      3. Humble Adobe*

        This actually raises an interesting question about what’s going on. The LW ends that no one needs or is allowed to use a single Adobe app.

        The CC app itself is free. You can download it and install it without any licensed products assigned. Heck, you can sign into it without any licensed products installed (because how else will Adobe advertise them to you).

        Now the $21,600 question (or potentially a lot higher): if there *aren’t* any licenses purchased, do they still have the Adobe Admin Console, and are these user accounts setup?

        I know for Reader you’re obligated to have a enterprise distribution license from Adobe to bulk-deploy. I assume it’s the same case for CC. I know we’re not exactly talking about Oracle-level litigation here, but if this were the case and someone were to alert Adobe…

        Reply ↓
        1. a perfectly normal-sized space bird*

          The apps are usable. We can use any of them except Acrobat, we just have no need for any of it. One time two years ago I used Premiere Pro to make training videos but I used my own computer and my own CC license because our work computers can’t handle anything that resource heavy. I also didn’t have to use it, I could’ve just used the Teams meeting recording function like everyone else did. I just thought the people watching videos would appreciate it more if I clipped out all of the filler, like parts where I was hunting around for the right functions.

          Reply ↓
    2. a perfectly normal-sized space bird*

      Someone broke it down by salary last year in an email to IT copied to an exec. I don’t remember the numbers last year, but currently it’s 480 CC licenses per client for employees at my level who don’t use it. I don’t know how many total clients we handle, I know of about a dozen offhand. So that’s 5,280 people banging their heads for 15 minutes waiting for computers to start up, we make $30/hr, so every day they waste at least $39,600 in salary time because someone in IT has a hill they’re dying on.

      Assuming my math is right. Also, nothing came of the email but I have a theory that there’s no one actually reading emails to the execs, at least not those to the email addresses we lowly peons have access to.

      Reply ↓
    3. Another Kristin*

      For some SAS products, it’s cheaper to site license rather than nickel-and-dime who gets a license and who doesn’t, but Adobe isn’t one of them! This is a bizarre waste of money

      Reply ↓
  27. ThatGirl*

    Re: walking track – the one I use at our park district rec center changes direction based on day of the week – it’s one way Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat and another Sun/Tues/Thurs. Unfortunately I mostly go M/W/Sat so I just assume my shoes are all gonna wear the same way.

    Reply ↓
    1. me*

      Came here to say this, every gym I’ve seen with a walking track alternates the days, so it’s extra head-scratching that people would get up in arms over it

      Reply ↓
      1. goddessoftransitory*

        I think it was the change “out of nowhere” that threw them rather than what was actually being implemented. I can see relying on routine and then having what seems like an arbitrary switch forced on me getting some people in a tizzy.

        Reply ↓
    2. Zee*

      Yeah, I used to run somewhere that alternated track directions daily. But a lot of people (including me, at the time) go to the gym every other day, so it didn’t really help with muscle balancing.

      Reply ↓
  28. learnedthehardway*

    I’m with the Pinstripe Guy – way to hold the line!!

    If I have a good suit, then darn it, I’m not giving it up (so long as it fits).

    Reply ↓
    2. Silver Robin*

      I remember my dad grumbling when his company officially changed the dress code to a step below business formal, meaning jackets and ties were no longer required.

      Was he mad about the failure to maintain the all important formality? No. But he had just bought three new suits to replace his old ones and now he had nowhere to wear them XD

      Reply ↓
      1. Freya*

        My dad just kept wearing them, even though he didn’t have to. But he also found one manufacturer of shoes that he found comfortable, and when they went out of business shortly before he retired, drove to the factory and bought every single pair they had left in his size. He doesn’t own any sneakers or sandals, just these shoes, and he has enough of them to last him the rest of his life. Once he finds something comfy, he Does Not Want To Change.

        Reply ↓
        2. Silver Robin*

          My dad had gotten reasonably high in management, I think he wanted to make sure he followed code so nobody else felt pressured to wear the suits

          Reply ↓
  29. Hroethvitnir*

    #2 The fact that bank *bought you the suits* is just so great. Do I want to work in a suit industry? Nope. If I’m going to, I *definitely* don’t want to spend thousands on my work wardrobe.

    I thought women might be required to wear skirts, but no! Not remotely the point, but high five for not passing the cost on.

    Reply ↓
    1. Silver Robin*

      I thought so too! like yeah fussy formal, but they bought them for you! and they were tailored! and they were updated every two years?! like damn, nicely done

      Reply ↓
      1. KateM*

        Yeah, I am really a jeans type myself but I would absolutely wear tailored suits to work if someone else paid for them and replaced as needed! Wow!

        Reply ↓
    2. Coverage Associate*

      As someone in a suit industry, I have felt that business suits have become so rare that they should at least be tax deductible, like uniforms and safety equipment.

      Reply ↓
    3. Disappointed with the Staff*

      This came up in an interview for a job in my very non-suit industry. The CEO was adamant that everyone in the office wear a suit at all times, so I obviously (obliviously?) asked how large the allowance for buying said suits was. Zero. Very firmly zero. Zero you hear me. It must have been a sore point.

      Not that it mattered, many coworkers smoked. The whole office reeked. I couldn’t work there.

      Reply ↓
  30. Paully*

    My favorite workplace response to “And how are we feeling today?” is “laconic”, or sometimes “taciturn”. Mom said I’d never use all those words I memorized for the SAT. Hah!

    Reply ↓
    1. Kevin Sours*

      I’m reminded of the Bartender from Dragon Age: Inquisition.
      “What’s the current mood”
      “Turgid?” or
      “Thick with three of the four humors.” or
      “Spirited enlightenment. Also: drunk.”

      Reply ↓
  32. It seems I need a name to comment here...*

    You can pry the office Jura (which the prior senior VP arranged to purchase) out of my cold dead hands!! But seriously there is a small core of us who love that machine. That said, it’s sort of silly that there are three different styles of machines that the custodial staff keep up… the real MVPs of the office.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t riot if that lone machine left (or died without repair or replacement), but I can totally understand #5.

    Reply ↓
    1. Teapot Connoisseuse*

      As a non-coffee-drinker but a fan of whisky, I thought your senior VP had invested in a nice single malt!

      Reply ↓
  33. Nobby Nobbs*

    Is it just me or does #2 sound like an office that’s actively selecting for people who will get weirdly attached to the weird dress code? Kinda surprised there was only one. But like others have said, props to them for buying the suits! If your requirements are that specific that’s how to do it.

    Reply ↓
  34. XF1013*

    Does anyone else feel bad for the seniors struggling with the change of walking direction? Having helped my elderly relatives through cognitive decline, both the emotional dependence on rigid daily routine and the belligerence in the face of imposition sound familiar to me. Their rudeness is not OK, but I do feel sympathy for them. May none of us someday find ourselves reduced to tears by such a minor disruption.

    Reply ↓
    1. mreasy*

      Given how many people who aren’t elderly get up in arms about innocuous changes, and given how many elderly people stay sharp enough to handle a change like this, I wouldn’t assume this is the issue, and it feels unkind to OP (who presumably knows this population well) to characterize things this way.

      Reply ↓
    2. Coverage Associate*

      I can have sympathy without agreeing with them. I don’t know that medicine has a good understanding of what changes are disturbing to dementia patients. I have read several accounts including within my family that moving the elderly from one home to a new one can cause rapid decline. But I have also read parallel accounts of great adaptability among the elderly.

      For example, I have read anecdotes of families who evacuated elders from eastern Ukraine and were surprised at worse or new dementia symptoms. But I have also read anecdotes of elders who have stayed in the east and adapted to utility shutoffs, changing food supply chains, etc.

      Since the change was to increase access to art, which I understand is helpful to dementia symptoms, I don’t know that there was a right or wrong decision here, based on medicine.

      Reply ↓
    3. goddessoftransitory*

      That was my first thought, honestly. If this was a regular gym that would be one thing, but it was probably a very deeply imbedded part of their day and would really, really throw people off.

      Reply ↓
    4. I'm great at doing stuff*

      It is sympathy inducing and also funny. The terrific Netflix show A Man on the Inside plays on this dichotomy really well.

      My mom passed from Alzheimer’s, so it’s a very real issue to me. But we also have to laugh, or we just, well, cry all the time.

      Reply ↓
  35. Josette*

    The second LW brought back a sad memory. Long ago, I worked at a commercial bank. The internal hierarchy had commercial lenders (those making loans primarily to local businesses) at the top of the heap, and the department head was a much feared man I will call Charles.

    Charles had a management trainee, fresh out of school. One day, this unfortunate young man showed up in a sports coat and slacks, rather than a suit. Charles pointed out that this was not appropriate business attire by screaming at him at the top of his lungs, for a good ten minutes, as they both stood in the middle of a crowded and wide-open bullpen-style office. This poor guy was blond, with a very light complexion, and he blushed vermilion. All sound in the office ceased while the tirade went on. It was one of the cruelest things I’ve ever seen in the workplace.

    Reply ↓
  36. Morty*

    For number, the Adobe CC startup: that IT weirdo is definitely getting a kickback of some type from Adobe. Or is too stupid to know how to uninstall or even just turn off the “auto-start Adobe Creative Cloud at startup” option. I’d bet a whole Clark bar on it.

    Reply ↓
  37. Bruce*

    LW5: my group was acquired by a bigger company more than a decade ago, we’ve moved office 3 times. The second move was to a brand new spec built tower, on our floor there was a row of cushy lounge sofas and seating along a long bank of windows… it was billed as a collaboration zone… Nobody used them, ever, as far I recall. Eventually they were pulled out and replaced with cubes. Our latest building has a nice break room with coffee, tea and tables, people do hang out there sometimes, and there are a couple of conference rooms that are set up like lounges… again, these are rarely used, so they are usually open for private calls or urgent meetings where a table is not required…

    Reply ↓
    1. A Significant Tree*

      I’ve never seen a collaboration space done well. It’s one thing if everyone has an office and then there’s a space for communal gatherings. But the collab spaces I’ve seen are just right in the middle of cube farms or (worse) open desk arrangements, where everyone hears everyone else already. Actually using the space for collaborating would be even more annoying and distracting to people around you. Not to mention, the cooler the furniture looks the less comfortable it usually is.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I think management types are drawn in my pretty architectural drawings. My mother’s retirement community had numerous little nooks with chairs and tables. I can totally imagine the drawing showing residents sitting together drinking coffee and engaging in stimulating conversations. I virtually never saw any actually being used.

        Reply ↓
  38. Dog momma*

    #1..awesome!
    #2..nice that they provided free suits, but please don’t tell people when to where what
    #10…where was he when I was in school? Catholic school here, Navy blue uniform all thru grade school. was excited bc in hs, the uniforms were grey…guess what…yep, they changed them to navy blue for incoming freshmen. So 12 yrs of wearing navy blue.. It was YEARS before I wore navy again.
    at least the uniforms weren’t red, like the class behind us!

    Reply ↓
  39. OrdinaryJoe*

    “She was happy. I was not, but I was tired.”

    Wow … truer words were never spoken in so many office wars and issues. I know I’ve given in stuff just because I was tired.

    Reply ↓
  40. Workerbee*

    Need more info on #9. Are you locked out of your computer’s startup settings? Or the Abode CC’s startup settings? Is it the head of IT who insists on this (and writes the screed) and everyone is afraid of them? Is it an IT minion everyone is afraid of? Has anyone written back (and this time warrants a reply-all) with a succinct “We don’t use this program, it wastes X amount of productive time, and your screed has nothing to do with our actual operations”? So many questions.

    Reply ↓
  41. Pay no attention...*

    Adobe: I’m guessing the auto-start is because something like fonts or a CC library of brand images/colors/logos for each computer are all Adobe CC and won’t load if CC isn’t launched — and IT gets a flood of tickets for missing fonts and logos that could just be solved with launching CC. Why they couldn’t say something like that, IDK, but even someone like me — a graphic designer with 27 years experience who uses 60% of the CC apps daily — recognizes that Adobe is kinda a cult.

    Reply ↓
  43. MerrilyWeScrollAlong*

    I used to work at the NPR affiliate in my city as an assistant producer for their afternoon show. One of my jobs was to take calls from listeners. Many years before I started working at the station, they had stopped playing jazz music in the afternoons to add more news programming. The jazz ended at least a decade before I started working at the station, but I would get calls during our program from listeners who were upset that our program was on instead of jazz music. It took everything I had to keep from telling them they could just listen to jazz on their own, we weren’t the only source available for jazz.

    Reply ↓
  44. sw*

    Re: fish and other potentially smelly-in-the-microwave foods: A friend gave me a Crock-Pot lunch crock food warmer as a gift years ago, and it has been amazing for taking my lunch from home. It’s not for cooking something fresh, but rather rewarming food. There’s an inner insert and lid for food, then the outer warmer shell with its own lid. It takes about 2 hours to get the food hot, so not as instant as the microwave, but it corrals any smells until I open the lids. It’s one of my favorite gifts I’ve ever received. I highly recommend!

    Reply ↓
  45. Styx-n-String*

    I once worked in a very small dental office – only the dentist, the hygienist, the assistant, and 2 front desk employees. One day the hygienist microwaved some monstrosity consisting of fish and munster cheese – one of the stinkiest of cheeses. FISH AND CHEESE. IN THE MICROWAVE.

    It smelled so horrific that we had to cancel the rest of the day’s appointments, and the next 2 days, to let the office air out. The hygienist was informed firmly that if she ever microwaved fish again, she might not have a job anymore. (No I was not the hygienist, lol)

    Reply ↓
  46. Laser99*

    That first one was a doozy, wasn’t it? I’m trying to imagine how Hothead handled it when interviewing for a new job. “Why did you leave your last position?” “Uh…”

    Reply ↓
  47. Old Bag*

    Can you just *imagine* being Mr. Softball and having to go home and explain to your family that night why / how you got fired?

    Reply ↓

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