update: my boss never praises my work

by Alison Green on March 26, 2025

Remember the letter-writer whose boss never praised their work? Here’s the update.

My undying thanks to you and all the commentariat for your compassionate take and excellent advice: I needed to get out of that job.

It was advice that didn’t land well at the time, because my morale was so shot that I didn’t even see the point in job-hunting. How could I hope to get a better job when I’d clearly never gotten good at this one, which was for an organization I adored, using the skill set I was educated in?

Still, where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way. Every time my boss did something that made me want to scream at her, I took a deep breath, smiled, and after work, sent out a job application somewhere. I had no actual hopes of getting hired anywhere (see: self-esteem=0), but it was like hitting a punching bag in terms of dealing with frustration. But then, to my astonishment, I got an offer! With a raise!

Here’s where I didn’t take AAM advice: I went to my boss and asked her if the org would match the offer I’d received. I know, I know … Keep in mind, I was terrified of change, concerned that I’d be as lackluster in this new role as my boss clearly thought I was in this one, and … well, the petty part of me wanted to see if I could force one measly shred of validation out of her.

“What are you making now?” she asked, in response to my query.

I told her. (Keep in mind: I was 50% of her direct reports, and my pay had not changed since the last time I’d asked for a raise. We’d had cost-of-living adjustments traditionally but Covid shot those out of the water.)

“Oh, that can’t be right,” said she. “I’ll check with Finance. You’re making more than you think you are.”

So I had an evening to mull over that peculiar statement. Was there a paperwork error someplace? Was she trying to get into a gross vs. net debate? Did she just think I was spectacularly stupid?

In the morning, she reaffirmed. “I’ve talked to Finance, and I’m right. You’re making more than you think you are.” (Reader, I was making $32K.) “However, the organization can match the new offer.”

But … I was done.

I politely informed her that I’d decided the new opportunity was the way to go, gave my two weeks’ notice, smilingly attended a farewell party in boss’s backyard with all of boss’s work friends and none of mine, and two weeks and one day later I was walking into my new job.

New job is AWESOME.

It was a move from nonprofit development into higher ed, supporting several departments whose subject areas are right up my alley. I get stellar reviews from the faculty I support and from my supervisor. I feel good at my job, every day. There was another raise after a year. And best of all — a few months ago, a couple of “my” professors invited me out to dinner with them, and once they had me trapped in a booth at Texas Roadhouse, they announced, “You’re smart. We like you. We’re confused as to why you’re just doing an admin job and not getting a Ph.D. We will write you recommendations and want to be on your committee.” So, it’s official as of yesterday — I’m doing a doctoral program, free with my employment benefits! When I told my (wonderful) supervisor that it was something I was thinking about tackling, her immediate, no-hesitation response was, “Amazing! Yes, I 100% support you in this. :-)”

So, whatever the problem was — a bad manager, a bad employee, just a bad job fit — the solution was, as so often: listen to the excellent advice at AAM.

Yours most sincerely,

Me
Someday soon, Dr. Me

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{ 233 comments }

{ 233 comments… read them below }

    1. juliebulie*

      I think the boss was just trying to gaslight the employee. People generally know how much they make. :-) Good for OP for getting away from there!

      1. Boof*

        yes… sometimes I think that term gets tossed around too casually but here? here I think it applies; a deliberate lie / denial of reality to try to keep the OP dependent/under their control. The whole thing reeks of massive emotional abuse (and this was just one aspect of it).
        LW I tend to be the first to hiss and shriek to avoid a phd but hey, if you can do it for free and you enjoy it, that’s awesome!!!!

        3. Ellis Bell*

          I love how the boss’ response to OP was “Oh, you don’t know what you earn you silly billy” but OP’s response to this was “WTF, you made a big deal about me not earning any more than this and now you ‘need to check’?” Absolutely disgraceful when the boss only has two reports and made such a fuss about raises. This boss sounds like a complete lemon lip.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          I suspect it’s both, that she genuinely didn’t know what the LW earned, then couldn’t admit she was wrong and basically tried to gaslight.

      5. Alicent*

        I had a boss like that. I worked on a base + production model that only paid production once per year. Regardless of how many hours I worked or how much I billed my bonus was never more than a few thousand dollars AND he started getting funny with paying our other contracted bonuses. If we pushed back gently we would get blown up on. By the third year I realized his bonus calculations didn’t make any sense and he was double deducting things from my production to reduce my pay. We pretty much confirmed it when he had a tantrum about paying the employer’s taxes on our pay.

        Of course I had about zero self esteem at that point and it was really hard to drag myself out of my depression to find a new job. They don’t do any monkey business with my pay and the one time there was an issue they apologized profusely and told me to double check it if I had any concerns and they would make sure it was fixed in the next check. I was blown away. New bosses literally pay me twice as much for half the work.

      6. JustCuz*

        Yeah she was definitely gaslighting OP this entire time. Probably believed in that whole “stress out over-achievers to get more out of them and their perfectionistic tendencies.” Which is just manipulative, selfish, and cruel.

    2. Generic Name*

      Some people are just straight up delusional. Literally they will get proof of things that directly contradict their opinion/viewpoint and the will interpret it as actually supporting whatever belief they already have. It’s truly amazing to observe.

    3. Heidi*

      I interpreted this part as there was a miniscule difference between what the OP said the salary was and the number the boss got from finance. Maybe the OP said she made $31,999, but the boss was like “You’re wrong, you’re actually making $32K!” If the boss actually got much a higher number from Finance, where is the difference going?

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        That was my guess as well. LW said they’re making “around $30k” and the boss had to be “no, I was right!”

      2. Lab Lady*

        I wonder if the boss is seeing the budget line for the position and misinterpreting that as salary? My position is on a “Sunshine salary list” for public sector employees where they list my salary, but they also list the total spend, including things like benefits and reimbursements, and people who have an axe to grind will quote that number.

        It’s still gaslighting. Total cost (benefits etc) IS NOT salary and someones manager should know that, I just wonder if that cared so much about ‘winning’ that argument that they grasped at the larger number.

        1. KiwiBird*

          that was my guess, too. what the employer is spending on the total compensation =/= salary, and could definitely provide fodder for gaslighting.

    4. RIP Pillowfort*

      I think it’s some kind of power play. Like the boss couldn’t let OP have that kind of advocacy or control over their job. The boss seems really off with regards to OP. Like these slights are meant to be cutting and personal.

    5. Menace to Sobriety*

      Guess would be boss looked at the total compensation package, including benefits, etc.. Our company payroll dashboard had our TCP and our salary was only one line item listed there. Holidays, vacation, 401K contributions, insurance premiums, etc… so it sure LOOKED like we made more than we did!

      1. Rogue Slime Mold*

        Yes, I bet that she was counting the employer’s contribution to health insurance as employee income.

      2. Always Tired*

        My boss (company owner) has such a hard on for total comp, and is always talking about that number, not, you know, the actual cash. He cannot understand why no one else cares or likes when he pulls that one out when people ask for a raise. I keep telling him “because 401(k) match doesn’t pay your bills” but he cannot see it. His tax bracket is too high to understand it, I guess.

        1. Coalea*

          At my last job they were always reminding everyone about how being “bonus eligible” was part of total compensation, ignoring the fact that they rarely paid out bonuses! Infuriating!!!

        2. Aldabra*

          We’re in the midst of union negotiations and leadership has frequently pointed out how we get great benefits at no cost to us. That is truly awesome, but we still need to be able to pay rents and mortgages in one of the highest COL areas in the nation, so yeah, that raise we’re demanding is necessary.

        3. Boof*

          I think both are important – I mean retirement contributions can be important (tho much better if it’s an independent deposit and not a “match”) and overall what the company is paying is important to them, but have to compare apples to apples; can’t compare total comp at one place to offered salary at another!

          1. MigraineMonth*

            Benefits are important, but I can’t pay for my rent or groceries with a 401k match, on-site gym or stock options that vest in 5 years. Maslow’s hierarchy means I need food and shelter now before I can appreciate retirement savings and the foosball table.

            1. Boof*

              Not disagreeing! Some benefits help more with bills than others (ie, healthcare, which I wish wasn’t tied to employment but here we are, for now) but yeah, if there’s not enough to cover the basics the other stuff isn’t going to mean much

              1. MigraineMonth*

                Agreed, health insurance does hit both Maslow’s hierarchy and my wallet immediately, especially with the number of prescription meds I’m on. It really sucks that it’s so difficult to compare them when applying to a job.

        4. Kyrielle*

          Heck, at my last job I wasn’t on the company health insurance because it was AWFUL, I was on my spouse’s. So hats off to them for including the employer-paid premiums for that in the total compensation of everyone on it, but it wasn’t worth anything for most people.

      3. Alan*

        That was my thought too. Which means that when they “match” the competing offer they won’t *really* be matching it.

        1. Disappointed with the Staff*

          In Australia we get 401k equivalent included in “compensation package” in job listings, and occasionally when negotiating pay. But it’s always easy enough to use the same system as whoever you’re talking to. “we offer a $100k package” or “we offer $100k base salary” and go from there.

          It’s only the lying liars that make this difficult, but they will make *anything* difficult, that’s the whole point of lying to their staff.

          1. WS*

            Yeah, there’s a legal minimum, but some employers offer more (or various other benefits) for higher paying jobs, or in specific sectors like universities. But it’s extremely difficult to lie about!

    6. math is hard*

      There’s not enough details to really tell what all that was about… but if I had to guess, I’d say it was just a bit of gaslighting to try and keep OP around without having to totally match the raise. She was probably establishing a foundation of “you don’t actually understand how much you make” now to set up a future situation of “what do you mean we didn’t give you the whole promised raise, of course we did, you just don’t get it. Because from the sounds of things, I think OP really was a valued employee, it’s just the boss preferred to keep their self esteem low to retain them for cheap – I mean, in the original letter the OP said they’d directly told their boss to give positive feedback, and were met with just an irritated response of “what, right now?” followed by just criticism. That does not imply great things.

      Alternatively the boss somehow didn’t understand the concept of taxes or something. But either way, I’d call that a red flag, OP definitely made the right call.

      1. CalypsoSummer*

        “I think OP really was a valued employee, it’s just the boss preferred to keep their self-esteem low to retain them for cheap”

        I think so, too. Boss was emotionally manipulating OP in order to keep a cheap, talented, cooperative, uncomplaining, cheap employee who was doing really good work, really cheap. Bonuses for the boss re how productive and profitable her little fiefdom was!

        (I hope bad things happened to Boss in return for those years of emotional abuse . . . )

    7. Beth*

      Either old boss is straight up unwilling to be wrong and will ignore or twist any evidence of her being wrong into something that proves her right actually…or she was intentionally gaslighting OP in the classic sense, telling lies to distort OP’s sense of reality and make her think she’s crazy so the boss could control her more easily. Clearly a bad boss either way!

    8. Csethiro Ceredin*

      Yes, “You’re making more than you think you are” is a WILD statement.

      Congrats, OP! This sounds like a huge leap upward.

    9. Palmer*

      When businesses underpay, they implement a variety of techniques to keep people accepting it.

      One way is to inflate the compensation received ‘You are being paid a whole 25 thousand dollars worth of medical benefits’. You ever see those portals at work where they talk about ‘total compensation package’

      But that isn’t money someone can use to pay their bills. That’s the businesses expense, and usually an inflated one. It’s about trying to make the worker feel guilty so they accept their payment.

      1. HB*

        Well, the literal salary is also a business expense. Also businesses don’t run out to literally purchase the most expensive health care plan they can just to be able to deduct it (unless they’re super dumb, which I guess is always possible) so unless they’re literally putting one number in the portal, and a different number on your W2 (Code DD) then it’s not inflated even if it’s an insane amount*.

        And including total it in total compensation is legitimate because when you’re comparing Salary and Benefits at one job versus an offer somewhere else, you have to compare apples to apples. One place could offer you more salary, but not cover any health insurance – or only cover you, but not your family. And if the business isn’t paying for it, your health insurance *does* become a bill.

        *Which is why it’s insane that people don’t frame nationalized health insurance as massive savings for businesses because it really effing would be.

    10. Commenty*

      I will be the first to admit that I work in a dysfunctional workplace, but last year, the head honcho of the nonprofit where I worked told me my direct report would be given a raise, and when I asked what her new salary would be, he declined to share the info. So technically I didn’t know her salary anymore after that.

    11. Beany*

      I wonder whether Jonathan — the favored employee — was making the same as OP? I assume so, given the pushback OP had to their request for a raise:

      “the next week there was an organization-wide meeting to explain to everyone that merit-based raises are not a thing in our organization and you are paid based on your job title alone; if you want a different pay rate, you must get a different job”

    12. Raida*

      LW asks for a raise.
      Boss tells them… oh no you don’t need a raise.
      LW tells them the current salary.
      Boss tells them… oh no you don’t have any reason to complain.

      It is just keeping control, keeping them down.

  2. kanada*

    “you’re making more than you think you are” might be the most bonkers one-liner I’ve seen

    1. NoIceCavesHere*

      Like, if the employee wasn’t receiving the money *where was it going*? It’s either calling the employee stupid or implying someone was skimming off her salary!

      2. Rogue Slime Mold*

        The missing money from everyone’s salary is going into the retirement villa on Lake Zurich for the perpetually ignored intern?

      3. Irish Teacher.*

        I’m guessing the intent was to call the employee stupid. There are people who basically default to assuming everybody else is stupid and could not possibly know anything.

    2. mango chiffon*

      such a gaslighty line. Like does she have some insight into what the LW’s direct deposit was looking like?

    3. Generic Name*

      Yeah, WTH. It reminds me of when I negotiated a raise with a promotion at my last job. I asked for a bit more than I was offered, and apparently the number offered was pegged to a number that was lower than my actual salary. My boss at the time thought I made LESS than I actually was. Joke is on them because I’ve been at a new job a year and a half later and I make $50k more than I did at my last job.

    4. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

      I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to mean? Did LW accidentally multiply their biweekly pay by 24 instead of 26? Was boss counting employer-paid benefits in some kind of “total comp” sleight of hand?

      1. Antilles*

        My best guess is that it’s the Boss’ manipulative attempt to re-frame the current salary as fine, so anything on top of it feels like they’re being super generous. Well your current salary is more than you think, but we’ve decided to even give you more on top of that since you’re asking, aren’t we just the bestest best?
        Basically the old car salesman technique of starting with a ridiculous price, so even going to a slightly reasonable number makes the other person feel like you’ve given something up.

      2. Double A*

        My brain is short circuiting from trying to parse what that sentence means. Unless LW has someone else managing their money…how could you possibly be making more than you think you are?

      3. Irish Teacher.*

        I suspect the boss just meant, “oh, you silly employee. You couldn’t possibly be underpaid. Clearly, you just don’t know your own salary.” I doubt the boss has really thought about how that could happen. My guess is that she thought the LW’s pay was higher and couldn’t admit she might be wrong so therefore the employee must be.

    5. RIP Pillowfort*

      It’s just so unhinged from reality. Of course OP knows her salary but there’s something about this boss where they cannot let the OP have any kind of advocacy or power over their role. It’s weird behavior on the part of that boss.

      1. CalypsoSummer*

        I think it was emotional manipulation to keep OP focused on trying to please the boss enough to elicit SOME sort of praise or recognition, and the constant disappointments made OP work harder to get SOMETHING from the boss — she was constantly holding that reward just out of reach, and OP kept trying harder and harder to get it.

        This, of course, was very good for the boss’s career and salary, since her section was so productive, and all she had to do was constantly withhold praise and recognition to keep OP working harder. And harder.

    6. Bee*

      I wondered if that was going to be “HR is messing up and should have increased your salary but didn’t,” but no, it just makes absolutely no sense!

      1. MigraineMonth*

        That’s what I assumed. (“Oh dear, we’re paying you 32k? But surely you received the COL increase to 35k at the beginning of last year, right?”)

        It’s so weird that she came back and said, “No, you’re already being paid more than 32k.” Um… what??

        1. Academic Physics*

          Right? And it sounds like the boss didn’t name the number they were ‘supposed’ to be earning? Just gave the match.

    7. Hannah Lee*

      I wonder if HR gave boss one of those “total compensation” analyses that includes things like the value of Paid Holidays, Gym Memberships, Employer Insurance contributions etc etc.

      So, LW makes $32,000 in pay, but boss locks onto some other number that has a bunch of non-paycheck stuff thrown in.

      Or boss is just a lying liar who lies.

      In any case, I’m so happy for LW that they are out of this person’s zone of radiance.

      1. LoraC*

        I hate those. I got an offer letter stating my total compensation was going to be 70k until I looked closer and saw my actual salary was 60k and the 10k were just “benefits”.

        It was still a step up for me, but seeing 70k drop to 60k was a total deflating moment.

    8. CubeFarmer*

      Yeah, I think if I heard that from my boss my answer would be, “Well, I guess that answers my question–my two weeks starts now.”

    9. FrogEngineer*

      “Oh… in that case can you have Finance take a look at all my paystubs in order to correct any potential problems?”

      1. Ellis Bell*

        I would have been tempted to ask how much more I should have been getting the past year, and ask for back pay!

      2. Joana*

        I’d go with “In that case can we get a third party auditor in here so I can get some backpay?”

    10. Commenty*

      I found that part of the letter confusing, especially since the manager seems to get confirmation from the Finance team that the OP did, in fact, have the wrong figure for the salary. Where did the additional money go?

      Anyway, congratulations, OP! I’m glad you’ve found a supportive workplace. Makes me wonder what paths I could have taken if I’d worked with professors.

      2. WS*

        She *said* that she got confirmation from Finance but it sounds like she says a lot of things with no basis in reality.

      3. Irish Teacher.*

        I’m guessing that either the boss was lying, either about talking to finance or about what they said or else she heard what they said according to her own views. Like they confirmed what the LW said and then she said, “but doesn’t she have health insurance?” “Well, YES.” “Hah, I knew she was making more.”

    12. Tiger Snake*

      “I’m sorry, did you just outright admit to me that this company is engaging in both fraud and wage theft?”

    1. LaminarFlow*

      Same! I LOVE this update! This manager sounds so difficult to interact with. I also love the line “Where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way”

      Congrats and well played, LW!

        1. This Creature Has An Exoskeleton*

          Didn’t Anthony Bourdain write about spite being a big motivating factor in his life? I miss that guy.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Spite is an underrated resource. My largest career advancement came from a mix of spite & desperation after I was fired and blackballed from my industry for a year. (It wasn’t personal, my company did that to everyone and called it a “noncompete”/ anti-poaching agreement.)

  4. Mockingjay*

    This is the update I needed to hear today!

    So happy for you, OP.

    (And the banana pants assertion that you made more than you thought you did? You did well to escape that kind of gaslighting.)

    2. Anonym*

      Same!! Congratulations, OP, and thanks for sharing with us! Best of luck to you, soon-to-be-Doc!

    3. Chumble Spuz*

      Yes! Great update! I’d like to toss an extra “good job” OP’s way for turning down the counter offer. She was a bit hard on herself for asking– and we’ve all seen the updates where the person takes the counter and is then newly miserable for another year or whatever before finally leaving, which is where i thought we were headed. But she didn’t! She asked for the counter offer and then noped out of there even though they said they’d match it, which is AWESOME. So good job, OP.

  5. Spunky tomato*

    Love this update! I recently left a job, and the last straw was a lackluster performance review that made it really clear they just weren’t interested in what I had to offer. My new team definitely is, and it’s done SO much for my morale at work (and in general). It’s amazing what a difference it can make to actually be appreciated!

  6. Sharpie*

    This is up there with “Go get your dog!” for some of the best advice(?) ever given by anyone on this blog, in any way, shape or form. Go (soon to be) Dr You!!

    1. Forrest Rhodes*

      Absolutely with you, Sharpie. I don’t and didn’t watch that show regularly—but I have that specific clip bookmarked!

    2. Peep*

      Yes! I agree! This makes me feel like there’s some good in the world. So glad OP got out, and love OP’s professor hype squad!!! Good job Future Dr. OP!

  7. TeapotNinja*

    “I’ve talked to Finance, and I’m right. You’re making more than you think you are.”

    The correct response to this one would’ve been: “Wonderful, can we look into what the issue of my paychecks being too low is? Who should I talk to about that?”

    1. mango chiffon*

      Right? Like let’s go to payroll together and see why the paychecks are not matching that. What a horrible boss

      1. Librarian of Things*

        Yeah, if I thought my employee was making, say, $40k and they thought they were making $32k, I’d be all over payroll to get it fixed before lunch, with back pay.

        Then again, I’d like to think I wouldn’t have any employees who hadn’t gotten one word of positive feedback for five years, either.

        1. Strive to Excel*

          Yeah, if someone’s paycheck isn’t matching what Finance says they’re getting, that tells me one of three things.

          1. Someone’s not reading it correctly – ie, boss is looking at total comp and employee is looking at the payroll line item.
          2. Some setting somewhere has gotten crossed. I managed to accidentally set myself up to contribute 15% of my paycheck to both a ROTH and a regular 401k, thinking I was just setting up the one, and then was very surprised by how low the paycheck was as a result (luckily easily fixed).
          3. There are shenanigans going down in payroll that need to be investigated ASAP.

        2. fhqwhgads*

          Or it’s something ridiculous like OP said she was making $32k but she’s actually making $32,100, and boss tried to act like that’s significant, when OP was just rounding.

    2. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      My guess is they would probably have come back with the monetary value of benefits added to salary and try to tell OP that her income was that amount. I’ve had an HR person try that with me before.

      3. A Simple Narwhal*

        That was my guess too, it’s some hand-wavy nonsense.

        And sure, sometimes some of those benefits can be quite valuable (I know I mentally calculate some of my more unique benefits into the whole big picture when thinking about a salary I’d need at a different job) but being told “oh you don’t need a raise because you’re dummy who doesn’t realize that onsite parking would cost you hundreds of dollars normally and that counts as part of your salary” is just insulting. Especially at a nonprofit job that only pays $32k, you probably aren’t receiving anything groundbreaking that you couldn’t get anywhere else.

      4. L.H. Puttgrass*

        I’d bet a shiny nickel that Boss was thinking, “$32k? But she counts twice that against my budget!” Which would explain why he confirmed that with finance, not HR.

      5. Venus*

        I wonder if OP rounded down slightly and boss came back with “You’re making more, specifically $32,053.09” though including benefits with the salary is also very likely.

    3. bamcheeks*

      Theo’s is a narratively satisfying response, the correst response was 100% handing in notice and going elsewhere,

      2. Anonym*

        Yep, OP nailed the response at that point. No more dancing with this fool, time to leave the party.

    4. Lexi Vipond*

      The only way I could see that kind of making sense is if one person was quoting their take-home pay in a context where other people were quoting their before-tax pay (I can never remember which is net and which is gross!). You’re not actually getting more money in your hand than you think, but you’re comparatively higher up the salary scale.

      I don’t think that’s what’s going on here, though.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Net is what you actually catch and take home, is how I remember it.

          1. HB*

            To make things more confusing…

            There’s Gross Pay which is the amount that the company actually pays as your salary (so not talking about other benefits like insurance). Then there’s Taxable Wages which is what’s in Box 1 of your W-2. Those numbers may or may not be the same thing depending on whether or not you participate in a retirement or a Cafeteria plan.

            For example, if your salary is $50,000 and you contribute $10,000 to a 401(k) then your Gross Pay is $50,000 but your taxable wages is $40,000. If you contribute to a Roth 401(k) the numbers will be the same thing.

            This is why your Box 1 will sometimes be different than Boxes 3 (SS Wages) and 5 (Medicare Wages). Retirement contributions are pre-tax for income, but not employment taxes.

            Therefore in the first example above, your Net Pay would be calculated as follows:

            + 50,000 (Gross Salary)
            – 10,000 (401(k) Employee Contribution)
            – 3,825 (SS and Medicare Withheld)
            – 2,748 (Estimated Federal Income Tax withheld – Single)
            – 1,600 (Estimated State Income Tax Withheld, flat 4%)
            = 31,827

            And if you contributed to a Roth, it would look like this:

            + 50,000
            – 10,000 (Roth 401(k) Employee Contribution)
            – 3,825 (FICA)
            – 3,948 (Estimated Federal Income Tax Withheld)
            – 2,000 (Estimated State Income Tax Withheld)
            = 30,227

      2. Zahra*

        “Net” can also mean “clean” in French. So “Net” is salary that’s been tidied up by removing tax and other deductions.

        Or: It’s just gross to think that pre-tax pay is used as a basis for borrowing/lending limits: you don’t pay bills and groceries with your gross pay, but with your net pay!

    5. The Funcooker*

      For any 30 Rock aficionados, this gives big Cooter Burger vibes. “The roof appears to be leaking.” “It’s not. We looked into it, and it’s not.”

  10. Momma Bear*

    I love this update – maybe especially the part where OP applied to jobs out of spite. I hope OP lets us know when they receive their degree so we can celebrate with them.

    1. Polly Hedron*

      where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way

      I just added this to my list of all-time favorite quotations.

    2. Generic Name*

      I’ve been in that place. I rage applied to jobs and it frankly felt incredible. Like this OP, my self esteem was so low I also wasn’t sure I could do anything else. Imagine my surprise when I got invited to interview for more than half of the jobs I applied to.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        I did that this week (I love my job usually, but this week was a fucker), and ended up getting an interview.

    3. Rogue Slime Mold*

      It’s a nice illustration of how rage can be useful as an emotion. Rage gets you up off the couch doing something.

    4. jane's nemesis*

      I did this at a toxic job – I didn’t even wait til after work, just anytime my boss did something incredibly frustrating, I literally applied to other jobs on the clock.

      It worked, and now I make twice as much as I did working for her!

    5. juliebulie*

      Inspired by OP and my own silent rage, I just spite-checked Indeed and found something juicy. Thank you OP!

    6. Trixie Belden was my hero*

      For Thursday Ask the Readers…..

      What is the most spiteful thing you saw/did at work?
      and what were the results?

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Not exactly the same thing, but pretty close:

        “what’s the most Machiavellian thing you’ve seen or done at work?” from October 29, 2020

        “pretending to be Canadian, and other Machiavellian triumphs at work” from November 2, 2020

        “stories of Machiavellian triumphs, part 2” from November 3, 2020

        “what’s the most Machiavellian thing you’ve seen or done at work?” from March 14, 2024

        “the fake union organizer, the lemon zest, and other Machiavellian triumphs at work” from March 18, 2024

        “stories of Machiavellian triumphs at work, part 2” from March 20, 2024

  12. Dasein9 (he/him)*

    Oh, congratulations, OP! How splendid.

    I think maybe you weren’t getting praise because you were a threat without realizing it. Someone else may thrive in your old job, but Old Boss was trying, wittingly or not, to make you smaller to fit into that role.

    2. Not that other person you didn't like*

      Yes, OP, do not blame yourself or the ‘fit’ this is all on a terrible terrible boss.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      I’m guessing it means “I thought your salary was higher that that and I refuse to admit to ever being wrong so you must be wrong. So there!”

  16. pally*

    Wait…boss got hung up on the accuracy of the salary figure OP cited – not the job offer signifying OP’s subsequent departure from the company?

    Wow.

    Glad OP left.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      The salary conversion is something she thought she could control.
      The new job she could not.
      She could tell OP, “you are making more than you think you are. Finance agrees with me. You are wrong,” from a place of authority.
      Her saying, “you aren’t qualified for that job, they made a mistake hiring you, I don’t think you will succeed there. You need to stay in this job,” might freak out our already hero, OP, but there is no authority behind it.
      The power play only works if authority figure hoards the information and isolates OP from outside sources.

      1. Forrest Rhodes*

        Agreed, Not Tom. So current boss thought LW’s response to, “You’re wrong!” would be to immediately apologize, step back from the new terrific offer, and decide to stay with House of Bees Inc. forever?
        That’s either incredible optimism or incredible stupidity!

        1. MsM*

          I mean, if thankfully ex-boss were capable of connecting actions with consequences, she might’ve dropped OP a crumb or two of affirmation somewhere along the way.

          1. pally*

            Or maybe offered a small amount over the job offer.

            Don’t get me wrong, the best outcome possible occurred here. OP is outta there!

            It’s just that OP leaving means boss has to find a whole new person to brow beat into the low self-esteem mode. That seems to me to be a lot more work than offering OP a “crumb” or two to stick around. I guess meeting the job offer wasn’t enough “crumb”.

  17. Ardis Paramount*

    “You’re making more than you think you are” = Boss’s way of offering a raise without calling it a raise. Boss was incapable of giving OP their due, whether in acknowledgement of work done, reassurance of belonging in the company, or in literal compensation.

    I’m so happy for OP that they’re thriving now!!

  18. Stuart Foote*

    Wow…nice to see a situation where everything turned out so great! What a great update!

  19. Heidi*

    We make fun of academia a lot, but I like that this update shows that there are some times when it is the exact right place for someone.

  20. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    Pretty sure you were not the bad person in that situation, and very glad you’ve gone on to better things!

  21. Tess McGill*

    This is a wonderful update and I’m so happy for you! Change is hard and bad jobs can trap you into a Stockholm-syndrome style situation. Glad you got out when you did and cheers to your new and better life! :)

  22. Just a Pile of Oranges*

    Hey so, this is probably the best example of actual real gaslighting in an office I’ve seen on AAM.

    Boss was constantly critical or neutral, made LW feel wrong or crazy for making reasonable requests, and outright claimed that the reality LW was experiencing was false.

    It’s like a how-to manual on destroying someone without doing anything that would flag as noticeably problematic to anyone else.

    2. SansaStark*

      I was holding it together right up until the very end. “Someday soon, Dr. Me” really got me.

      Spite has motivated me more than once and…..honestly, it hasn’t been the worst influence on my life/decisions! :)

      1. kicking-k*

        Oh, me too. It got me into Oxford! And I’m pretty sure that telling me you don’t think I can get a job (that I am reasonably qualified for…) would spur me on to apply, too.

      2. Aww, coffee, no*

        Yes, this sign off was the perfect cherry on top of an already awesome cake. I’m thrilled for OP and would love a future mini-update when OP becomes Dr OP.

    3. SeenTooMuch*

      Same here – this is one of my favorite updates EVER! Please let us celebrate your PhD in the future.

  24. Sarah*

    This made me cry. I’ve been in that former place, and it chips away at you in so many ways. Congrats, OP, for doing the hard work to find a place where they really see you!

  25. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    I think it’s safe to call this one a WTF Wednesday throwback.
    “I make X.”
    “You are wrong. I will talk to finance and prove it.”
    “OK.”
    “I talked to finance. You are wrong.”
    Yeah, don’t know why this obnoxious woman decided to mistreat and misuse OP, but she did. At least she was so blatant about OP that self-esteem issues or not, this situation was bonkers.

  26. Beans*

    This is absolutely incredible. Kudos to you for finding an environment that you not only enjoy but will actively support you. Cheers, friend.

  27. Yorkshire Tea Lady*

    Not dissimilar to my situation – although my line manager was wonderful, the Chair of Trustees was bananapants, everything I did was wrong, I wasn’t capable etc etc. Bear in mind I won awards for the work she didn’t like, and was recognised as an expert in the field by media outlets.

    Someone in my network was recruiting for a fully funded PhD studentship, told me to apply, I did, was successful and couldn’t be happier!

    OP, wishing you every success in your studies, but I’m sure you’ll smash it!

  28. mdv*

    The only even remotely (unlikely) kind conception of “you’re making more than you think you are” is some variation of the boss including any fringe benefits in the total, which most employees don’t include since they aren’t part of the *paycheck* calculation. You have to use salary+fringe for budgeting purposes, but in absolutely NO scenario I’ve ever heard of is an employee expected to include fringe in their expectations…

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Oh, like the business owner who said he doesn’t give vacation days, because you already get 104 vacation days a year. They are called Saturday and Sunday.
      And boss didn’t even say that. She just said, “nope, you are making more than you think you are.” Which translates to, “you say you make X. You make more than X. You are wrong.”

  29. ElliottRook*

    HELL YEAH, DOCTOR YOU! This is the best kind of update.

    But truly, seeing everyone else get praise and not getting any even when your work is provably good (pulling in more money)–I would start to wonder if this boss had some personal vendetta I’d somehow missed? Had I wronged someone close to her? Otherwise this just feels so bonkers and out of left field!

    2. MsM*

      I’m surprised Boss even threw a party and didn’t just spend the two weeks trying to ignore OP’s existence. (Then again, maybe she was looking for an excuse to have one anyway.)

      1. SunriseRuby*

        Since the guests were Boss’s work friends, not the OP’s, the party may have been to show the friends just how great a boss she was. All about optics, entirely self-serving, and with drinks and appetizers.

  31. Rogue Slime Mold*

    Where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way.

    Another entry for the line of AAM onesies.

  33. CommanderBanana*

    I feel like this a good reminder of how bad managers can totally derail someone’s life. Seriously, if you are taking a management position, you really need to think about whether or not it’s the right choice for you. Do not be this person.

    1. Umami*

      Absolutely! I was on a panel recently for Women’s History Month, and when asked about a pivotal moment in my leadership journey, I shared a story of a supportive boss who not only gave me promotion because he saw how much more I could contribute but wrote into my contract a requirement to get an advanced degree. Knowing that someone believed in me that strongly was just so empowering and life-changing, and I am committed to being that person for others.

  34. Chirpy*

    This is beautiful.

    Also, really nice to hear that someone really did get out and found a place where they were valued. Gives me hope that maybe I can do the same.

  36. Ochre*

    Congrats, OP, and thank you: “where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way” may be the mantra I needed today. And some other days too.

  37. Palmer*

    Glad LW got out.

    I wouldn’t be super excited about being in Academia in the current moment in history, but if there’s a good deal to get one here’s hoping!

    The language of “professors invited me out to dinner with them, and once they had me trapped in a booth at Texas Roadhouse” gives me pause, but I hope this was just dramatic word choice.

    1. Venus*

      Given that they ‘trapped’ OP into listening to a suggestion to a PhD… I find it hard to interpret the situation as a problem.

  38. Ghostess*

    I started writing a reply about a very similar situation I was in, and then I re-read the OP’s update and saw they are getting a dang PhD! I definitely did not do that, but I did start rage-searching jobs after dealing with years of a similarly awful boss, and thankfully got out of that trash swamp after far too many years.

    It can be incredibly hard to build yourself up after years of that kind of treatment, but to get to a point where you can believe in yourself (and have people believe in you) enough to get a doctorate is HUGE. And if you are not someone who strives for a degree, just know you might somewhere end up in a role where people appreciate your brain and your skills and how excited you get about highlighters.

  39. LR*

    So happy for you OP!

    Just be sure you understand if there are tax implications from tuition remission for your PhD program. You need to be prepared if you’re going to be taxed on the tuition you’re not paying as a benefit.

  40. Justin*

    Spite leading to new jobs happened to me too.

    At a job I hated, we were back in the office occasionally in late 2021 but we were sent home for Omicron. Fine.

    We were told to return Feb 1. So I went back. I had found out I hadn’t gotten a job I wanted that very morning while dropping my son at daycare.

    I get to the office, and my boss had emailed saying she had just received an exemption from showing up, which would be fine except I was required to go. The funny thing is, now, at a job I love, I actually choose to go to the office, because I LIKE the separation and get distracted at home. But also, my boss was very clear she’d bought a house far from the office in the previous month, and had been in the office that fall, so it was fairly clear from everything she’d told us she just didn’t want to travel. Fine, but then, why are we forced to go in, etc etc.

    ANYWAY. I was already searching but never at work. And I got there and angrily fired up Indeed from my work desk. I always searched by “recently posted” and lo and behold the job I ended up getting was posted as of 9 am on Feb 1st.

    I was making okay money at the last job, my salary immediately jumped by $35k, I really like my colleagues (I didn’t at the last job), and the extra bump was a big reason we bought a house in 2024.

    1. Not My Best Bandname Ever*

      That is awesome! And I love that you enjoy working with your colleagues!

  41. Ann O'Nemity*

    “I’ve talked to Finance, and I’m right. You’re making more than you think you are.”

    I could not have helped myself from immediately asking, “How much is my salary supposed to be? How long has it been at that level? And who in Finance should I talk to about correcting my paychecks?” And based on those answers, probably asking for back pay.

    1. Coalea*

      100%! This boss makes no sense and I couldn’t cope with that. I would be like a dog with a bone pestering them to clarify until I was satisfied with the answers.

    2. CommanderBanana*

      Our dipshit HR director at one of my last companies was always very quick to remind people how much “more” they were making once you looked at the cost the company paid for health insurance, retirement match, etc. Which, that information is really useful, and it’s a good idea for everyone to have those numbers, but it was always framed as “don’t ask for a raise, we’re already paying so much more for X and Y.”

      Their benefits package was industry standard for the area.

  42. Emoo*

    I laughed out loud at the “trapped in a booth at Texas Roadhouse.” That’s so awesome. Good luck and good job going for your PhD!!!

  43. Harriet Vane*

    I love this and Jane sucks. Can we send this update to her anonymously? (And also, $32,00???)

  44. Eleri*

    OP – I am so happy for you. I left a similar situation and am much happier at my new company. I spent 15 years at my previous org, with 8 of those years working for a boss that just never seemed to be able to positively affirm anything I did. He would give me constructive feedback on specific projects or processes, which I appreciated, but when I asked him what specifically I could do to earn the praise, raises, and promotions I saw being given to my coworkers, I got vague non-answers and no direction. If there was something I was doing that was holding me back, I would want to know! But it just seemed like he could never articulate it. But for this particular boss, I think part of it was because I was different from him – the coworkers that got the rewards were very similar to him in many ways, and he was obviously just more comfortable around them than me. I know I was doing a good job in the organization, because I received praise from many people at various levels over time…but he could just never bring himself to do that.

    Sometimes it just takes getting out to see that, and also to preserve your own mental health. I also struggle with very low self-esteem and really thought I was just broken somehow. I’m doing a lot better in my new position. I am very happy to hear that you have supervisors and faculty rooting for you!

    1. Ellis Bell*

      Some managers have no idea how to build up and develop the gifts of another person, they just like to chose to like somebody they already like, as though there’s any skill in that. They have next to no idea it’s their actual job, either.

    2. Meep*

      Omg. It is so painful when everyone else but your boss notices your contributions, isn’t it?

      I don’t know if it is just me, because frankly my entire life I have been a “mirror” for other people’s shortfalls and had it taken out on me, but I have a similar boss. And it is frustrating, because he means well, but he is so busy wanting to “couch me” he isn’t listening. As a result, when I do the same exact thing I was going to do before this couching season (and have told him I was going to do and got scolded for), he ends up patting himself on the back. Meanwhile, literally anyone else will compliment me and telling me how much I am doing.

      It is so beyond frustrating when your achievements are never your own.

      I literally started crying in frustration and jealousy reading your and LW’s messages. Really inspiring to know it is just a bad fit and there is someone out there who can recognize MY contributions.

      1. Polly Hedron*

        he is so busy wanting to “couch me” he isn’t listening.

        I hope you meant “coach me”.

  46. Lorna*

    I can’t quite explain, but reading this – especially the last sentence and sign off phrase – made me tear up. I am stinking proud of you, OP! Rooting for you all the way!

  48. Bookworm in Stitches*

    Absolutely love the way you ended this!!! I’m on your committee, too!!! Go, Dr. Me!!!!

  51. UnderABridge*

    I am so happy for you OP, congratulations!! This is a fantastic update, and clearly very well deserved.

    For anyone who spots this and is ever considering whether they should update AAM, I’m currently reading this post in exactly the same position as the OP. This is the push I need to start looking for something better.

    I don’t know if I should be *hopeful*, knowing the market is a mess right now. But this did make me feel just a little more optimistic about looking for something new. Thank you, OP.

    And congratulations again! So thrilled for you.

    PS: If anyone has good coping strategies for this kind of situation until you can get out, all welcome.

  52. Worker Bee*

    These are the kinds of updates I LOVE to read. Congratulations, Soon-to-be “Dr. Me”! :o)

  57. Meep*

    First of all, congrats!

    Honestly, OP, I needed this update. I haven’t had a raise in four years (not even a COLA) and for the past year I have found my quality of work slipping because what does it matter? I am not going to be acknowledged for what I do right by my boss. Heck, I went into my last TWO performance reviews and my boss praised my coworkers the entire time! Did not register to him in the slightest that much of what he was praising them for was actually work I did. Unfortunately I kept my mouth shut to a) not seem resentful and b) because he won’t let me talk at all!

    The wake-up call came earlier this month when he informed us the Thursday at 4pm after making us slog through a “vision meeting” for 90 minutes before payday that we would not be paid and be furloughed for the next two weeks. During those two weeks, I helped him manage customer emails so it didn’t look like we had this gap and got very little acknowledgement for it. The “acknowledgement” in question? Being put on hourly with barely 8 hours of work a week instead of salary. (Bonus: using the fact I had a baby as an excuse.)

    We now have funding for the next three months – three months I am going to use to find another job. Fingers crossed that I can get half as lucky as OP.

  62. HelenaHandbasket*

    Is it just me or does everyone want a future “reunion” where bad boss says “How are things going LW” and LW gets to say “It’s actually Dr. LW now”?

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      Yes, yes, we want that.

      (Though boss would probably say, “I checked with the university and I’m right. You don’t have the PhD you think you do.”

  63. kicking-k*

    This is so good and lovely and I wish you a very happy future (and PhD!) They like you and they think you’re smart because they actually have decent judgement!

  64. Raida*

    I’m having a crabby morning so I’m just gonna say:

    Please stop using ‘gaslighting’ when you mean “Lying” or “being a bitch” or “Trying to play the victim” or “Insulting” or “Ignorant”

    1. Polly Hedron*

      The usage is correct in this case.
      Wikipedia: “Gaslighting is the manipulation of someone into questioning their own perception of reality.”

  66. Susannah*

    Oh, what welcome good news! Thrilled for you, LW. And glad you followed your instincts (but what’s with your previous boss, not knowing what you made?)

  67. Office Gumby*

    “I’m doing a doctoral program, free with my employment benefits!”

    Whut? WHAT?

    Ohmigosh, that’s AWESOME!! on so many levels.

  68. Adultiest Adult*

    Congratulations, soon-to-be Dr. OP! Also, your “trapped in a booth at Texas Roadhouse” made me smile, and crave their bread and butter! I am so glad you landed somewhere that they appreciate you, and your old boss was full of bees! Onward to better things!

  69. Media Monkey*

    so happy for you (almost) Dr OP!

    I spite left a job once, following a performance review where my boss who had failed to suggest any issues with my performance or anything i should change in our fortnightly catch ups used the comments of my lovely team to lower my rating (we had to provide stop/ start/ continue points and all of the “start” points were used as a stick to beat me with as to why i wasn’t already doing them – most of them weren’t possible within the structure of the team/ company). i sent my CV to recruiters that week and had a new job with a promotion and 25% pay rise within a month. i had a 3 month notice period and boss basically ignored me for the full 3 months, with no acknowledgement of my leaving. my leaving drinks, speech and gift (all usual in the industry) were organised by my team and he didn’t attend.

  70. Sociology Rocks!*

    Working in academia admin and getting pulled aside by profs going hi how can we help you get a PhD is a literal fantasy of mine. You are living the dream and I hope it goes wonderfully!!

  72. Dek*

    “You’re making more than you think you are.”

    …okay, so…did that extra money materialize in your bank account after that? I’m so deeply confused.

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      I don’t think the boss was saying the LW should be getting more money than she was. I think she was saying the LW was getting the money but clearly just couldn’t add up her pay or something.

      I took it as “oh, it couldn’t be that low. You must be reading it wrong. Yes. I’m right.”

      There are people who don’t really see other people as having a existence beyond what they are involved in or don’t see other people’s lives as real. I think it was probably a bit like the comment on the post about the bananapants coworker who was yelling at a neighbour because their dog barked twice in the day saying that the LW, who was there and heard it couldn’t possible be right about the dog only barking twice because it would be bananapants to yell about that; clearly the dog must be barking constantly and the LW just didn’t notice.

  73. North Wind*

    W00-hoo, soon-to-be-Dr. You!!! I’m so happy for you, and it’s such an encouraging story!

    I’m in a job that is quite good in a lot of ways, but I know undervalues me compared to everywhere else I’ve worked in my life. I’m working on a personal project at the moment and don’t want to job hunt until it’s done (because getting started in a new job will take all my energy for awhile). But I do keep feeling like I’m doing myself down by staying here. So affirming to hear your story and think better days could be ahead.

    Congrats again on your move :).

  74. Attic Wife*

    I found Higher ed to be a very gentle place for me to land after getting out of a toxic industry. I have thrived in academia ever since. Congrats to you OP! Best of luck on your doctoral pursuits!

  75. mystiknitter*

    oh my goodnes, OP = my eyes filled with tears of happiness and joy! Congratulations, soon-to-be Dr. you!

  77. Bea_Esser*

    “ Still, where self-esteem fails, spite finds a way.”

    I’m stealing this phrase for my bad days.

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