my interviewer wants a reference from my current boss

by Alison Green on April 1, 2025

A reader writes:

I recently interviewed for a new job that I was really excited: it’s exactly what I want to be doing next in my career, at a company I’ve heard good things about, and with a salary range that would be a significant boost from what I earn currently.

After the second interview, the hiring manager asked me for my references. I sent her contact info for my manager from the two previous jobs before my current one, as well as a senior colleague who I’ve worked closely with. I didn’t offer my current manager since she does not know that I’m looking, and I would rather she not know until I’m ready to move on. I don’t think she would be angry, exactly, and we have a good relationship, but I’ve always heard it’s not wise to tip off your boss that you’re actively working on leaving until you’re ready to actually give notice. If this job doesn’t pan out for some reason, I don’t want her to worry that I have one foot out the door, since I could imagine that could affect what kinds of projects I’m put on and what opportunities she considers me for.

However, after I sent my reference list, the hiring manager at this other job came back and asked if she could contact my current boss as well. I explained that my boss doesn’t know I’m interviewing and that I didn’t feel comfortable alerting her until I’d accepted another offer. The hiring manager said that because I’ve been at my current company for the last seven years, she would want to talk with them before making me a formal offer; I guess she felt the references I did provide were not recent enough. I asked if there were any alternatives I could provide instead, like a coworker from my current job (but not my boss) or even a copy of my recent performance evaluation. She said no, and that their policy is always to speak to someone who has managed the candidate in the last three years. I wasn’t comfortable doing this, so I ended up withdrawing from their hiring process.

I’ve never encountered this before and always thought it was normal not to use your current boss as a reference. Am I being too cautious or was this an unfair requirement on their part? If I run into this again, is there a better way to navigate it?

You can read my answer to this letter at New York Magazine today. Head over there to read it.

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{ 177 comments }

{ 177 comments… read them below }

  1. NerdyKris*

    You might want to let them know that the article is missing any distinction between the letter and your response. It just goes into the response as if it’s still part of the letter.

    1. Phony Genius*

      Yes, the letter is not presented in italics like it usually is, making it hard to tell where the question ends and the answer begins. And the font on that site renders weirdly on my browser, making it that much harder to read and understand.

  2. HailRobonia*

    This brings to mind the AAM letter “my job offer was rescinded – after I already quit my old job” – they were instructed that they should give their notice at their current position then provide their manager as a reference.

  4. Don't You Call Me Lady*

    Absolutely not – this is absurd, and the fact that the hiring manager didn’t realize this makes me think bullet dodged. Your instincts were 100% right

    1. Nonprofit Lifer*

      That was my thought, too; if they don’t realize or care how inappropriate this is, what other ways might they disregard appropriate boundaries? Expecting you to be on-call 24/7 for calls or emails? Discouraging you from taking your full PTO? Working during your vacation?

      Employers who don’t realize that hiring is a two-way street usually don’t have respect for their employees as independent entities either.

      1. Georgia*

        This was my last boss to a T. He almost contacted my then-current boss after I said NO WAY (I would have been fired on the spot). I was desperate and took the job anyway and it was a complete nightmare. I thought it was better because I wasn’t being screamed at or experiencing violence at work anymore, but it was frying pan to fire.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Not only didn’t realize it, but actively pushed back against OP when provided with solid reasoning. I’d guess there are MANY other things this institution would be inflexible on

    3. AnotherOne*

      I was recently interviewing people at my current job.

      And one of the things I was told to do at the beginning of the interview was explain that- as part of the background check (if they got that far), we’d have to speak to their current supervisor.

      Some local law got interpreted as requiring this by my employer and the solution became let everyone know in advance so they can opt out, no questions asked.

      Is it ideal? No but I sorta feel it also lets people withdraw themselves later. They can say yes in the minute if they feel they have to say yes but they can always contact back and go “yeah, that position isn’t going to work for me after all.”

      1. Don't You Call Me Lady*

        Yes if it’s mandated for whatever reason, that sucks but what can you do.. As you say though you mention it at the beginning which is the way to do it and save everyone some time

  5. juliebulie*

    I encountered something like this a long time ago – 2006 or so – the people who were interviewing me asked why my current boss wasn’t on my list of references (which, yes, they asked for in advance, which should have been a red flag). They acted dumbfounded when I said my boss didn’t know I was interviewing. Give me a break. (My friend who worked there assured me that they wouldn’t want their bosses to know if they were looking, either.) I felt like I was being gaslit in the interview and did not appreciate it. I wasn’t that desperate to get out of my current job.

    I don’t think this has ever been a common thing, but I hope it doesn’t become a trend or something. It’s really bad.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I don’t think that asking for references in advance is a red flag. It often helps streamline the process since people do not always get back with references. It’s a requirement for all positions at my current job. But I do work in higher ed. But we don’t call references until after we have interviewed candidates. However, we would never ask to speak to a current manager.

      1. Lydia*

        Yeah, most places ask for references with your application packet, especially if you’re applying in an online system. The majority of companies won’t contact anyone until the contingent offer (i.e. Offer contingent on background check and/or checking references), so I don’t know why it would be a red flag.

        1. Lynn Whitehat*

          Not where I’m applying. I’ve applied to 200 jobs in the last year, and nobody asked for references until after the offer.

  6. Chick-n-boots*

    That is bananapants. I understand the theory of wanting a more recent reference but then as an employer you have to recognize that you may need to be happy with getting it from someone else who is NOT the applicant’s manager! Are people really that deluded??

    1. MK*

      They don’t need to be happy with that; they can select candidates who can provide more recent references (people who have been at their current job for only a couple of years, or were laid off, or whose manager knows they are job searching, or who don’t care if they do). Yes, that will restrict their candidate pool a bit, but unless the role is particularly hard to feel, it probably won’t matter.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        But the letter writer offered a more recent reference. Asking to speak to a current manager is absolutely bananas.

      2. Don't You Call Me Lady*

        They should still spell it out clearly beforehand though – why waste everyone’s time including theirs?

        1. mreasy*

          Yeah, I would never apply for a job if I knew I had to provide my current manager as a reference. People should be up front about this, what a waste of time for a candidate.

      3. Meow*

        ok but if you care about getting the BEST candidate for the role you wouldn’t limit the candidate pool that way. The final decision shouldn’t be based on person A is able to be open about their job search with their current boss and get a reference and person B can’t. That’s bad hiring.

        1. Statler von Waldorf*

          If your definition of the word “best” includes employees who will roll over and comply when management does bad things, then they do care about getting the best employees. They just disagree with you on who the best employees are.

          That doesn’t mean the LW didn’t make the best decision for themselves, which they did.

        2. metadata minion*

          It’s also specifically weeding out people who stay long-term (unless there’s been recent turnover in their manager’s role), which most employers seem to theoretically want, even if they do nothing to actually retain staff. :-/

          1. Paint N Drip*

            this is something I find interesting – this setup actually creates a preference for people who are not staying long at jobs (and those whose managers didn’t stay long at the job above them, or who has an excellent empathetic manager)… are those the absolute best of the choices, or is that just an unintentional pool?

          2. College Career Counselor*

            Bingo. You’ve worked at this place for ten years? Sorry, we need a reference more current than 2015, because otherwise how can we know whether you’re a decent employee? (Gee, maybe the fact that I stayed here working effectively for ten years AND I have glowing references from previous employers?)

            Also: asking for current manager references happens in higher ed, and not always when a search firm is involved in the process. Several years ago, I had to disclose as a condition of moving forward in the search process, didn’t get the job, and found myself sidelined from a major project *that I co-founded with a faculty member*. Now, I don’t think I was maliciously excluded, but I did get left off the emails and future planning not terribly long after I made that disclosure. Luckily, through persistence and a lot of help from faculty colleagues, I made it back on board the program development committee.

            1. zuzu*

              That happened to me a few times when I was trying to leave my first job in higher ed (librarian). I was absolutely gobsmacked. And it wasn’t even at the offer stage; they wanted to talk to my current supervisor before they considered me for an on-campus interview.

              I was absolutely not going to do that, and told them so. It was more than one institution, both highly ranked schools (the lower-ranked ones probably didn’t feel like they had the juice). I got SO MUCH PRESSURE to let them contact my boss. But for what? The possibility they’d interview me in person and not offer me a job and then he’d know I was looking? Yeah, no thank you.

              I think that strategy didn’t work out well in the end, because when I went back on the market several years later, none of that happened. Though one over-eager head of a hiring committee who knew my then-boss (at a different job) must have contacted him the second she read my resume, because that got back to me real quick.

              1. Distracted Librarian*

                I ran into this at a lower-ranked state school. I was desperate enough to leave my then-current employer, I went along with it (and got the job and had a good run there), but I was not happy about it. It turned out that campus HR had abandoned the practice, but the library was very much a “we’ve always done it this way” sort of place and held onto it.

            2. Richard Hershberger*

              My boss of fifteen years would have been happy to give a reference after he retired, but so far as I know no prospective employer contacted him. Yes, this included an old contact of mine, but I also got an offer through an Indeed listing. The sense was that fifteen years working for one guy was itself a reference, with nothing really to add. It is a sad day when the legal industry has more sensible hiring practices than, well, anyone else.

        3. MK*

          I didn’t say it was brilliant as a hiring practice, just that it’s not as delusional and impossible as quite a few comments present it as.

        4. Lexi Vipond*

          I mean, in a situation where you could rank all the theoretical candidates in the country and person 1 would do the job 1% better than person 1000, it’s probably not worth putting a huge amount of effort into getting person 40 instead of person 53. You don’t always need the BEST, you just need someone who can do the job.

      4. a trans person*

        They don’t need to be happy with poor people. They can select candidates who show up with appropriate professionalism (nice clothes, or a good car, or who don’t care if they have to go hungry). Yes, that will restrict their candidate pool a bit…

        Your proposal is equally disgusting.

        1. t4ci3*

          Was the comment you’re responding to deleted? I scrolled up, but couldn’t see any counter-proposals that involved poor people, and I’d really like to know the context of your responce

          1. a trans person*

            I’m literally quoting the post I replied to, changing the details to show how fucking discriminatory that would be. Maybe not illegal (but nothing is illegal anymore anyway), but disgusting.

      5. Chick-n-boots*

        Of course, the are well-within their rights to do that. But given that employers tend to prefer to hire people with a track record of stability, it seems shortsighted to not have a better plan for this when interviewing people who may have been in their current job for more than 3 years. I’ve been at my organization for 15 years and have grown with it – I started out as an admin and I’m now an executive. My boss is the same person who has been my boss for 15 years so I wouldn’t have any other options they’d like in that situation either.

        So yeah, of course that is their prerogative. It’s just a silly, shortsighted approach to a situation that calls for more nuance and there’s no good reason for it.

  7. LiberryPie*

    My mother told me in the past that when she has been asked for a reference from her current boss, she offered a copy of a recent performance review. I know advice from parents is notoriously outdated, but this always seemed like a good idea to me, notwithstanding the fact that the request itself is at least a yellow flag. I would be curious if Alison had reasons not to do this.

    1. Sharpie*

      I read it that the LW offered performance reviews and for the prospective employer to speak to other people at LW’s current company that they work with, and was turned down, that only a reference from the current manager would be acceptable, so that’s why Alison didn’t suggest that in her response.

    2. jjax*

      In the letter, the OP says they offered a recent performance review to the interviewer and that was rejected as well. It is a good idea, but for whatever reason, the interviewer wasn’t going for it.

  8. Serious Pillowfight*

    Ridiculous. The recent performance eval should have been an acceptable compromise.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Totally agree! (I don’t even have any performance evaluations from my current job, genuinely don’t get any formal feedback so I hope my next job search is easier than OP’s)

    1. Chick-n-boots*

      I’d bet it’s less about that person and more about a company policy that nobody bothered to think through. Sounds fine in theory but as we can see in this situation it’s really dumb in practice.

  10. Tradd*

    When I was looking for a job some years back, the company I was interviewing with wanted to set up a call with me AND current manager. I pulled myself out of that interview process so fast it made their head spin. I would have been fired at current job very quickly if they had known as I was looking elsewhere.

    2. metadata minion*

      Ok, that one just makes me do such a head-tilt. What is the advantage of having the candidate on the line?? Most people will feel awkward discussing someone’s weak points with the person right there on the call!

      The only time this possibly makes sense is if you’re discussing some kind of internal move — this actually kind of happened with me, where my old boss and new boss basically sat down and said “So, you obviously want to move into unicorn care, and you’ve been helping out when that department is short-staffed and obviously have way more aptitude for it than for your current position. We would like to restructure the current open position and put you in it. Do you want that?” And I said “heck yes!” and there was much rejoicing.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      OMG… unless you’re a c-suite in a field where the employers engage with each other significantly, I cannot understand why this would even be a THOUGHT let alone a plan for them

    4. bananners*

      This is a horrific idea for so many reasons. What would they even learn on such a call? No one would feel comfortable to speak freely.

    6. MissMuffett*

      This makes me wonder if it’s some ‘start up’ by young “genius” types who start this company right out of college having never had a regular job and no idea how things actually work in the real world!

  11. eggo*

    I had a job interview a few months ago where I was told the head llama groomer at possible new job would tell my CURRENT boss that they’d given me an offer, as a “professional courtsey”. These two people are friends so I assumed they’d talk about it at some point but NOT BEFORE I even accepted the job offer!! WTF.

    I declined the offer about 10 mins after it was sent and when asked why by the hiring manager (“so they learn for future candidates”), I said the phone call before I accepted an offer is why I was turning it down.

    I did get the impression the hiring manager also didn’t like the idea of her head groomer calling my head groomer and was hoping I’d say that so hiring manager could go back to her boss and say so.

    But literally wtf. what a bad idea.

    1. Miette*

      Wow that head llama groomer was a clueless idiot and I hope the hiring manager set them straight.

    1. pally*

      Ditto.

      I asked to be indemnified for any financial losses I might incur by their talking to my current boss.
      My request puzzled the HR person. I explained that I was taking a big risk letting them talk to my current manager. It just seems fair to me that they take some of the risk too.

      What do I do if I don’t get an offer from them AND my manager decides to terminate my employment as a result of learning I was out looking for a new job?

      My request did not go over well.

  13. JanetM*

    I work for an organization that requires the hiring manager to have a conversation with the candidate’s current manager before an offer can be extended, much less negotiated.

    I know this is a bad idea (because I read AAM), and my manager understands it’s a bad idea, but it comes from our legal and HR departments as a non-negotiable rule.

    1. NotRealAnonForThis*

      So I’m honestly curious how this has worked out, as far as getting reasonable candidates? If you happen to know.

      1. JanetM*

        I don’t really know – this is only the second search I’ve chaired. The previous search did hire a successful candidate; unfortunately, he passed away suddenly a few months ago, so we’re re-filling that position.

      1. Rex Libris*

        IANAL, or in HR, but it seems to me that this opens up the company to liability if the applicant can in any way argue that their current boss intentionally torpedoed their job offer.

        1. JanetM*

          I hadn’t considered that. I know we’re supposed to tell the candidate, “We’re ready to make you an offer, but first the manager needs to talk to your current manager. If that’s not acceptable, we’ll move on to the next good choice.”

          So at least we’re kind of getting their consent.

        2. WellRed*

          The hiring company isn’t violating any laws by requiring this; the applicant current boss likely isn’t either. Either way, good luck proving it.

      2. JanetM*

        I don’t know. I kind of wish I did, but then I reconsider and decide maybe I’m better off not.

    4. Paint N Drip*

      I’ve heard this before! If you’re a perfect company, there is no member of management that an employee wouldn’t want to work with, so this setup is gold standard – we all know there are no companies with 100% flawless management so I am dead sure this requirement does WAY more to encourage people to find a job outside the company

      1. JanetM*

        I don’t really know – this is only the second search I’ve chaired. The previous search did hire a successful candidate; unfortunately, he passed away suddenly a few months ago.

    5. Chick-n-boots*

      Yeah, I’d love to know where the policy originated and what the reasoning and justification for it is. That policy is so dumb it literally boggles my mind.

      1. JanetM*

        I don’t know. I kind of wish I did, but then I reconsider and decide maybe I’m better off not.

    6. Sorry, HR....*

      My company has this policy also. It’s an HR requirement after a supervisor flipped out when their best performer gave them a 2 week notice for an internal transfer, and they went screaming to the highest on high. Now the current supervisor has to be the final reference before you can extend an offer. HELLO NO, for all the myriad of reasons presented here. So my tactful get-around is that I tell the candidate “I ANTICIPATE you are my finalist and I ANTICIPATE this will be the salary I will offer. Would you accept that? Once you confirm that you would, I will proceed with your final reference with your current supervisor, which seeks to confirm what you’ve noted as your current title and key responsibilities and that you’re not on a PIP or other performance issue. Because you’re internal we will be flexible on your start date to ensure the business’s broader needs are taken care of.” HR still grumbled at me but because I’m not calling it an offer or even a verbal offer they let me skirt the line. Candidates love this spin – they know we’re stuck playing by that rule but it makes sure we’re on the same page before the beans spill.

        1. amoeba*

          For internal, it’s pretty normal in a lot of places, I think? There was a discussion a while ago and in many cases, the manager actually gets alerted if one of their reports applies to an internal position.

      3. Lisa*

        I can understand this policy for an internal transfer. It’s when it’s an external hire that it’s completely unreasonable.

      4. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

        I can understand that, in most places I worked – if an employee wanted an internal transfer or promotion, his / her manager had to be notified in advance of the interview. This was not asking the current manager for permission – it was a courtesy. If a manager thought the application was due to the employee wishing to leave a bad situation ( I had one of those once) it gave the opportunity to clear the air and resolve a problem – if the manager wanted to resolve it.

        Now, I have a story that I heard (and had no reason to doubt its veracity).

        An employee wanted to answer the posting for a higher position in another department. The manager and director were both out on vacation, and HR told both the manager and employee to proceed.

        The employee was offered the new job and accepted. Then the manager and director came back and were livid. Supposedly, they tried to pull a stunt to hold her back = put the employee on a PIP.

        Retroactively. Sounds like “Animal House” and “Double Secret Probation”.

        The stunt failed. The promotee came into work the next morning = “I am either going upstairs to my new job *or* I’m out the door. And this ‘retroactive PIP’ business doesn’t pass the smell test – ethically OR *legally*, I have checked with my legal counsel.”

        After ten minutes of conversation, management caved in.

    7. Lalchi11*

      My current company talks to the candidate’s current manager for internal applicants, but we have a good culture where applying to internal roles is encouraged and people regularly move to different businesses units as a next step in their career. They would never ask to speak with an external hire’s current manager!

  14. Zona the Great*

    I hate this and just dealt with it with my current org. I had the chance to say so in the employee survey but I doubt anyone cared. It’s a crazy thing to do to a candidate.

  15. Ash*

    I do want to ask though what to do when someone has been at a company for a long time (7 years is a long time, and some people stay at companies for 10, 15, 20+ years). How can you evaluate someone only based on references from potentially 1-2 decades ago?

    1. Palliser*

      I’m in that situation and have provided references from my clients and colleagues.

    2. Don't You Call Me Lady*

      You could ask for a colleague, accept the stability as a reference in itself, or have it so that for these types of candidates reference checking will be weighted lower on the list of criteria

      1. Rex Libris*

        This. I generally assume if you’ve been somewhere for ten years, you’re probably reasonably stable and not causing any major problems. I’m also fine with colleagues as references.

    3. Wednesday wishes*

      All this leads to are a pool of candidates who are not currently employed being the only ones who will follow through. So maybe that’s a good thing for those candidates since we know people discriminate against unemployed people.

    4. Nonprofit ED*

      I agree! It is possible that a person has changed in 7-10 years as an employee. Maybe better or maybe worse. Getting a reference from someone who has not worked with you in 7-10 years would be difficult to determine if the person is a good fit.

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        If you haven’t had the same manager for your entire tenure at the company, you can use a previous one. (My previous manager has left the company, so there’s no risk of word getting back.) Or a close colleague, an internal stakeholder you’ve worked with extensively, etc.

        1. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

          This. I’m not looking, but if I was I have reference offers from former bosses who are elsewhere now.

    6. Peanut Hamper*

      If you have worked at a company for 10+ years, then there are two possibilities:

      1) Your company is really bad at managing out bad employees.

      2) You are actually good at your job.

      Presumably, your resume is filled with accomplishments, rather than just job duties, so you can talk about how you managed those accomplishments during the interview. And then the company could accept references from people other than past or current managers who can confirm that you are a wonderful person to work with and not some bananapants conspiracy theorist who microwaves fish or leaves dietary propaganda in the break room.

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        3) You live in a small town where there are not a lot of employers in your field, so people tend to stay for a long time.

        Your former peers may be able to comment on whether you were a wonderful person to work with and whether you microwaved fish when you worked together or not, but your manager would have insight into your actual work in a way that just isn’t visible to others. This is a legitimate problem — I’m actually lucky that my former manager has left (I’m not looking to leave yet myself, but when I do, my options for references will be very limited because almost everyone I’ve worked with at all closely is still here!).

        1. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Of course, getting fired from a job in a small town for daring to look elsewhere would never, ever have long term consequences, right? /s

    7. Hlao-roo*

      If you (general you, not specifically Ash) have been at a company a long time, you may be able to use the following as references:

      – a person who used to manage you at that company but has since left to work for a different company
      – a coworker you used to work with closely who has since left to work with a different company
      – a coworker you currently work with closely who you can trust to keep quiet about your job search
      – a customer/client if you work closely with customers/clients

      Those scenarios won’t work for everyone who has been at one particular company for a long time, but they will work for some people.

    8. Claire*

      The OP offered to show recent performance evaluations, and that suggestion was rejected.

    9. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      I’m in this situation and have only had one manager for the last >15 years. But I have several C-Suite-level colleagues who I work closely with and 100% trust to keep job searches discreet. Two C-Suite references from my current job alongside several colleagues and direct reports, + copies of performance evaluations, have always been sufficient to get me an offer. (I’ve never gotten an offer that was as appealing as Current Job, but I’ve probably turned down 30 offers over the years using those references.)

    10. Noriarty*

      I agree that wanting more current confirmation of an applicant’s work is a perfectly reasonable thing for an employer to want. Especially when the working world went through a huge shift in the last years. That’s on top of any particular field, where you might need to ensure that your candidate has up to date knowledge (that could be because you need them to navigate changing legal rules, or do effective marketing, or utilize machine learning tools…). It makes sense to me that a 7 year old reference may not be enough!

      Being totally rigid that the only way to get that is to jeopardize the applicant’s current job is the red flag. Lots of good solutions in this thread!

    11. Disappointed with the Staff*

      In my case I have public work that anyone can look at. Conference presentations, published papers, articles on websites of relevant organisations. A lot of professionals have those sorts of things they can do.

      This is also where LinkedIn got started – helping people track former coworkers etc so they could testify to your (lack of) fish microwaving and other evils, and possibly even whether you did well at the parts of your job they could see.

      This is also why I fought my employer on the “no second jobs” clause in my contract. I help friends out with things, some very directly related to my current employer and others just work-related skills. I’ll help them groom their llama at home, but I’m also willing to wash dogs and persuade cats to eat pills :) Those things lead to current references even though I’ve been in my current job for more than a decade.

      1. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

        This is also where professional conferences/networking comes into play.

    12. amoeba*

      What LW tried to offer instead (and they didn’t accept), I guess – references from coworkers etc. and/or copies of performance evaluations.

      Where I live, written letters of reference are also much more common than in the US and it’s not uncommon to ask for one every few years of when something significant changes (promotion, change of manager…), so that you have something you can provide in case of a job search.

  16. Wednesday wishes*

    This reminds me of a job I applied for, when we agreed that I would work a few days for a week so we could “try each other out” and then I said I would work on the opposite days of my part time job- they INSISTED that I quit the other job first, because the pay they were offering “in the beginning- the money will come!” was soo low they wanted to make sure I would be stuck with no job and desperate to work for them. It sounds like this hiring manager wants to put you in a similar position.

  17. Nina from Corporate Accounts Payable*

    And the organization has probably lost many good candidates as a result!

    The only time I considered a job that would have required speaking with my current manager was when I explored federal law enforcement many years ago. I spoke to my manager at the time who was very supportive, but I did not wind up going in that direction. It would have been a major pivot. But I would absolutely withdraw my candidacy at a corporate job that insisted on speaking with my manager. Unless layoffs were looming and I weren’t just seeking greener pastures.

    I did recently hire someone who left their job at a competitor on very good terms and their manager at the job they were leaving wanted to speak to me. I said absolutely not – too awkward and unnecessary.

    1. GammaGirl1908*

      I think the distinction is that if you know you are going to be laid off, the dangers of letting your manager know you are searching no longer exist. I’m sure there are some jerks out there who lay people off and still punish them for leaving, but most companies doing layoffs intentionally encourage their employees to start searching, and do what they can to facilitate that (placement advice, references, using their equipment, et cetera).

      1. allathian*

        Yes, absolutely. I’ve been laid off twice in my career and both times my then-managers were more than willing to be my references. I didn’t even have to ask, they offered.

        But then, I’m in Finland, and here when a company’s laying off employees because they can no longer afford to keep them, they’re legally obligated to help them get new jobs elsewhere.

        Some provide retraining and even recruitment consultant services. This is particularly typical in the manufacturing sector where many people in the past started work on the production line more or less straight from school, and some of them didn’t really even interview, they just showed up at the factory gates on hiring day and were offered a job on probation more or less on sight. Then they worked there, with promotions to senior workers or foremen, and floor managers for the most ambitious, until times changed and the factory closed, or at least laid off a significant number of workers. These people’d never heard of a resume, barely knew what a job interview was, and were suddenly forced to look elsewhere after 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years on the job.

        That was true as late as the 1991 recession, and that’s when the industrial corporations here realized that they needed to do better to help their long-term employees find new jobs.

  18. Jeremy Kissems*

    My partner works in government (provincial, in Canada) and I was mindblown to learn that it’s standard practice to make a current-boss reference mandatory.

    It’s effectively tanked her ability to move anywhere within government, because it creates such an insular culture. At best, it preemptively alerts a “good” boss that their employee is considering leaving, but more often than not, it’s led to vindictive and retaliatory actions from employers.

    She’s tried to push back and offer alternatives, but the out-of-touch chuds running the place simply will not budge. It’s insane.

    1. Harper the Other One*

      I’m also in a Canadian provincial government but fortunately culture around giving references seems to be at least decent here and movement is not difficult.

      It is awkward for the initial hire from outside, though. Fortunately when I was looking, I was working for someone who was looking for a chance to downsize staff and was happy to give me a reference rather than face having to do a layoff.

    2. Working For Catfood*

      I work in state government and there’s a checkbox for ‘can we contact your current supervisor’ and consider it a red flag if it’s marked no. But we’re such a small state that if it was marked no, we could check on the current state manager and see if they were nuts. State policy is that we want to grow our employees’ careers and encourage them to move up ladders of promotion. Hanging onto good employee is frowned upon.

      Retribution for job hunting would be rather difficult, although you hear stories about bad references to keep good employees. Performance evaluations are also required though, so it would be a flag on the manager! Just another way civil service can be different than private sector.

      Our scoring is such that we would still interview someone who marked no for contact the manager, but would hope that they would explain in the section of the interview when they’re asked if they have anything to share.

      1. Disappointed with the Staff*

        The other problem is excellent references for terrible employees. Why fire someone when you can help them leave voluntarily!

        1. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Yes, our school ran into that one when they asked only the current school why a principal wanted to move. They should have asked the school prior to that one (but he made the local newspaper with his antics here).

    3. uncivil servant*

      I’m in the federal government and I applied to a job where the second screening (after the resume submission) involved having a supervisor answer questions about you. I had a job that I was pretty happy with, I was just kicking tires because the subject matter of the new job posting interested me, and I just closed that email and ignored it. Didn’t even bother writing to withdraw my application. Weeks later I got another email informing us we had an extra week to submit our evaluations. I bet they had no candidates.

    4. Leenie*

      I think alerting an existing manager about an internal hiring process is actually quite common. I work for a private company in the US and had someone who reported to me take a transfer to a different department recently. I’d known that she was looking for a change for a long time, and she’d always give me a heads up when she applied for a specific position. So it was no shock when I got the HR notice that she was being finally advanced for an interview. Her new manager also called me for a reference before she made the offer.

      Anyway, I’m not sure if my company would have offered alternatives if I were some kind of a territorial, punitive weirdo. But it seems like transparency is the norm on this, since we’re all part of the same organization. Expecting something similar from an outside candidate would be wildly out of touch. But, although it sounds like there are a lot of cultural issues in the provincial government that your wife works for, I don’t actually think that notifying a manager that a report applied for a transfer is all that unusual.

  19. Chairman of the Bored*

    I wonder if the people who make these policies also complain about how hard it is to recruit new workers and that they keep losing candidates after the interview stage.

  20. Diocletian Blobb*

    Some people’s jobs (mine is one) don’t even ALLOW current managers to give references for current employees. I strongly disagree with this policy, but this is just to say that at many places the manager would be breaking company policy by giving the reference.

    1. No Reference*

      This. My company doesn’t allow anyone to give references. It’s in the employee handbook. We’re supposed to refer them to an employment verification service.

    2. Marion Ravenwood*

      Yeah, in my last few jobs (UK public sector and charities/professional bodies), the policy has been to point any requests for references to the HR department. But that gets tricky when the application form wants a named person and the HR email is something like hr @ employer . com.

      Or sometimes the form specifically asks for a line manager, like when I was applying to my current job. In that case I did point them to my manager and she forwarded the email to HR, but she also knew I was looking as I was on a contract and we were trying to get more certainty about whether that was being extended from the project team whose budget was paying my salary. If it had been a case like OP’s, I’m not sure what I’d have done.

  21. eristotle*

    I work for a state agency, and it’s actually a requirement that we contact candidates’ current supervisors (and yes, I hate it). We always contact them last, and usually once we’re pretty sure we’re going to hire them anyway. I really wish we didn’t have to. :/

  22. Blue Pen*

    I’m in no way defending this, I think it’s a crazy policy, but this is fairly common in higher education—at least for external candidates in my institution. I knew the institution to be reputable, and I had a great relationship with my manager at the time, so I ultimately went along with it. I don’t regret it, but I would never defend this. It’s extremely unfair to the candidate, and it puts both them and their manager in a weird place.

    1. bananners*

      Higher ed here and current supervisor is only required for INTERNAL candidates. Which makes zero sense – other than being a decent and ethical person, a current supervisor has no reason to give an honest review (they want you gone? good reference. they want you to stay? bad reference). I pushed back during my last two job changes (2020 and 2022) and both hiring managers agreed to negotiate before getting the reference, but that’s because they’d informally asked others about me and whatever my current supervisor said wouldn’t have changed their mind.

    2. irritable vowel*

      Thank you – I also work in higher ed and was sort of taken aback both at Alison’s response and everyone else agreeing. It has always been my experience, both as a job candidate and a member of search committees, that current managers are expected to give a reference.

      1. GeminiDreaming*

        Same here. If not your current or a former supervisor at least someone who works closely with you (preferably more senior or a stakeholder) and has insight into how you work. I was reading thinking it might be a cultural thing but maybe it’s a higher education cultural thing that I hadn’t realised wasn’t normal elsewhere.

  23. ResuMAYDAY*

    OP, please let us know how you handled this. Did the potential employer cave? Did you walk away from the offer?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      The original poster did walk away from the offer. In the last sentence of the third paragraph, they wrote:

      I wasn’t comfortable doing this, so I ended up withdrawing from their hiring process.

  24. Christmas Carol*

    I’m sorry Mr. Pence, we’ve got to speak with your last manager before we can extend you an offer.

  25. CL*

    I encountered this once and would handle it very differently now. The interviewer wanted to speak with my current supervisor, and it turned out that they knew each other very well. I didn’t feel like I had a choice but to say yes as she would probably call my boss anyway. I should have seen all of this as a red flag as it was a terrible place to work.

  26. As I Live and Breathe, Raisin?!*

    In my case I didn’t tell them, a coworker I had mistakenly confided in about my job hunt told them. They pulled me into the director’s office to let me know that since I was looking they were going to start looking too. I ended up taking the job I had already decided to turn down just to have income and it was as bad as I predicted and seriously derailed my career.

    Also, you’re paying me $25k/year in 2012, OF COURSE I’M LOOKING.

    1. SAinHR*

      same thing happened to me many years ago. My boss found out I had interviewed elsewhere (I told a colleague who ratted me out) and I was fired. Severance and outplacement were given in exchange for a release. After several interviews and meals with the potential employer, I was ghosted. I never heard from them again. I did find a new job two months later.

  27. Chercher*

    In the UK/Ireland it’s standard to provide your current manager as one of your references – usually once the intention has been expressed to make you a job offer. That said we have much better protections for employees in general so it’s not something we tend to lose any sleep over.

    1. Ina Lummick*

      lots of companies here however have the policy that reference checks go to HR only.

    2. londonedit*

      Yeah, the way it works here is that you receive a job offer, and that’s the point where you hand in your notice at your current job, and then you say to the new employer OK, it’s fine for you to contact my references, here are their details. And one of those will usually be your current manager (people would find it a bit worrying if it wasn’t, because obviously your current manager is the person who knows your current work).

      That said, unless you’re going for a job that needs some sort of high level of security clearance (like working for the Ministry of Defence or something), we don’t have in-depth ‘background checks’ for new jobs, and references will usually literally just be ‘did this person work for you from these dates in this capacity’. It’s basically a formality – in theory, a job offer is ‘subject to satisfactory references’ but in reality unless you’ve literally lied on your CV then you’re not going to ‘fail’ a reference check. So you accept the job offer, you hand in your notice, you tell the new employer it’s fine for them to contact your references, they do that while you’re doing things like getting the contract signed, and then you’re good to go with the new job. It’s all very normal here to do it that way, so people expect it and it’s not any sort of worrying thing or ‘red flag’.

      1. Earlk*

        I’m UK based and you should never hand in my notice before you’ve had the reference checks completed and an unconditional offer in.

      2. Sashaa*

        Oh I pulled a job offer after a reference check once! Turned out the doctor I was planning to employ had sexually assaulted a colleague, amongst other bad behaviours, and there were restrictions on his practice. He was not happy when he found out, and went on a misogynistic rant (which convinced me even more that we’d dodged a bullet).

  28. Thinking*

    Dear Hiring Manager,
    Let’s put the shoe on the other foot. If you were looking, would you want a new company to contact your present job? Just asking.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      may I speak to the last person who left your employment?
      what like it’s weird or something?

  29. Bunny Girl*

    Ugh. I had this happen recently and I did the same thing as LW, I withdrew. This puts people in such a bad situation and it’s terrible. I offered to give the name of a senior colleague who wasn’t my direct manager (more like a shift leader who knew I was looking) and it still wasn’t good enough. I took it as a red flag and backed out.

    1. HailRobonia*

      I imagine you saying “I’m sorry, I thought you were looking for candidates with good judgment and decision-making ability. Risking my career over a reference call is not a good decision.”

    2. Don't You Call Me Lady*

      Do companies that do this at least acknowledge that it’s unusual and risky for the candidate but maybe they’re required to do it for some strange reason? Or are they just clueless and think this is normal?

  30. Employee of the Bearimy*

    I had something similar happen very recently – I got to the finalist stage of an executive-level search, and they asked for 4 references, but they had to include 1) a direct report, 2) a supervisor, and 3) a board member. Now, I’m still in close touch with a former boss and can trust more than one direct report to be discreet, but my current job is the first one I’ve had where I deal directly with board members, and asking a board member for a reference would be functionally the same as telling my boss I was applying elsewhere. But I wanted the job, so I sucked it up and had a hard conversation with my boss, who was very gracious and agreed to be a reference for me, and then asked a board member, who also agreed. THEN the search committee canceled the final interview, because the other finalist got an offer from another organization and used it to leverage a rushed offer from this place. So I did all that for nothing. In my case, my boss knew I planned to look at some point but absolutely didn’t know I had started, so it remains to be seen if there’s fallout from this.

  31. Blue Mina*

    The snarky side of my nature wants the letter writer to forward a link to Alison’s advice on to the interviewer! :)

  32. stelms_elms*

    I once had my future employer contact my references before I was offered an interview. My current employer did not know I was leaving, but thankfully, I provided a reference who felt the org was as bananapants as I did and gave me a good reference. I ended up taking the position because the reference checker was not in any way my supervisor or in my chain of command. It got me in the door, and I’ve moved up and around the organization for the past 15 years, but I did question it at the time.

  33. Jan Levinson Gould*

    Next time I ramp up a job search, I will ask on the first phone screening if a current direct manager is required as a reference. If that is mandatory then I will ask to be withdrawn from consideration.

    1. Combinatorialist*

      That seems like an overreaction and likely to be off-putting to the vast majority of reasonable hiring managers. It’s a bummer to waste time but this isn’t a common requirement and asking like that seems pretty adversarial

  34. cncx*

    Wild that we are told not to job hop but then after a long stay at a company a candidate gets penalized like this

    A job hopper will always have a recent former boss lol

  36. Anon Manager*

    I’m in higher ed and I had a search firm be extremely pushy about this. They asked multiple times over and over. I told them I’d get fired if they contacted my current boss. In the end, I received an offer from another institution first. If the search firm not been so awful about it, I might have held out and finished the interviewing process. But they lost me as a client and I would avoid them in future job searches.

  37. Wicked Prose*

    I’m in the UK and 100% of jobs I’ve applied for require a reference from your current manager. You usually have to fill out their details on an online form before you can even submit an application. Of course, you legally can’t be fired for looking for another job here, so I guess it’s less of a risk than in the US.

    1. Troubadour*

      Yes, I’m in New Zealand and it wouldn’t be terribly risky here either. I don’t think I’ve come across anywhere where it’s specifically required, but it’s pretty normal to include your current line manager so as a hiring manager I’d low-key expect it. That said a) even though referees are included in the application, at least in my field we only contact them when about to make an offer, and b) if a candidate didn’t include their current line manager, I’d be open to other referees within reason.

    2. Lexi Vipond*

      I haven’t always seen it required (and for a while various reorganisations at work meant that I could use someone who had recently been my boss but had moved to be the boss of another team), but it’s definitely quite normal and doesn’t cause the sky to fall.

      It’s interesting as a cultural thing, because I can’t really imagine any of my previous bosses *wanting* to sack me for applying for a different job. These things happen. Sometimes they applied for different jobs and moved on themselves. I suppose it could just be that it doesn’t occur to you to want things you know are impossible, but I’m not sure.

      1. amoeba*

        Eh, I mean, I’m also in Europe and would not worry about being fired for looking elsewhere, but I still certainly wouldn’t want my boss to know I was trying to leave – and the other way round, I wouldn’t want to know it for my reports, either. It would be so hard to ignore that information when selecting who gets assigned a critical project or a promotion or whatever, even without any malicious intent!
        If they only contact them as a formality once it’s already clear they’ll be making an offer – less bad, certainly. But still not great, as it’s been so drilled into me to never let anybody know until you’ve signed the contract! And I have definitely had jobs fall through at that stage due to hiring freezes etc., so there is still significant risk…

    3. Nico*

      Im in uk and have never been asked for references from a current manager with an application

      1. Wicked Prose*

        I wonder if it varies with region or profession? I’m in Scotland and was applying for admin jobs and all the applications were online forms which required details of your current manager.

  38. Chocolate Teapot*

    About 10 years ago, I was applying for jobs and had an initial appointment with a new recruitment company, who wanted my references (including from my current employer) before they would even consider working with me or proposing suitable roles.

    The company was part of a group originally based in Australia, so I don’t know if this is a characteristic of Australian recruitment processes.

    1. Disappointed with the Staff*

      I’ve never had this in Australian programming jobs. Some current managers I’ve been able to offer as reference, others there’s absolutely no way (including one job that doesn’t appear on my resume).

      Recruiting companies here cover the range from mediocre to awful and often use provided referees as sales leads. This pisses off everyone else but they don’t care because it might lead to money for them. I’ve never provided references (some of my references would dump me if I did that!) and I’ve had recruiters refuse to work with me because of it.

      1. Disappointed with the Staff*

        To clarify: that’s providing references to the recruiter before an offer, not before an interview or even a role. They get a resume but it has “references available on request”. When we get to the offer stage I explain that the references will be provided to the potential employer, not to the recruiter.

  39. cathy*

    My last employer laid off our entire division. We were told that we were forbidden to use each other for references, and I had been there for 23 years so there went all my references.

    (I used my people as personal references & explained the situation on my resume. I ultimately switched careers so I don’t know if it would have been an issue.)

    1. Artemesia*

      If you are all laid off, how exactly can they ‘forbid you’ from using each other as references? My response would have been, ‘yeah, right’ and I would have lined up my references among colleagues and offered the same to them.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, same. It’s not as if the company itself can penalize you any further after depriving you of your job…

  40. Disappointed with the Staff*

    This is also adverse selection: the requirement to get a reference from someone who has managed the candidate within three years means job hoppers have a huge advantage.

    1. Holy Moly Guacamole*

      Indeed, I am starting to wonder if this requirement automatically selects for younger applicants who ready to move on after three years.

  41. Aggretsuko*

    When I was applying at the state, every single job said they WOULD contact my supervisor, even if I asked no, even if I begged them not to. Non-negotiable. Despite being told prior to interviews that it wouldn’t be an issue. So unfortunately, I’m guessing it’s yet another awful trend that’s sweeping the nation.

  42. Tiger Snake*

    I find it weird that people think asking for your current boss as a reference is not normal.

    I get why some people will chose not to give it. I don’t begrudge people who say that they would not want to do so. But I do feel that should be viewed as by exception, and I find it so weird that someone would ask “why are they asking for this”.

    1. Reluctant Mezzo*

      Because then people get fired and have no income with no guarantee of the new offer coming through? Also, no health insurance! What fun!

      1. amoeba*

        And even if you don’t get fired – you might miss out on interesting projects or promotions or whatever because your boss might think “oh well, Tiger’s probably not going to be around much longer, it’s too much risk to give that important task to them!”

    3. Midnight Glitter Raid*

      Are you based outside the US or do you work in a management or higher ed role? I’m just curious why you think it’s totally normal to potentially cause someone to lose their job or experience fall out from their current job as a result of this policy. I definitely would withdraw for anyplace that insists on a current boss reference.

    4. Nico*

      Because its stupid and wrong.

      References are basically garbage – you are trusting the competence and goodwill of a stranger over the applicant you have actually interviewed.

  44. Ran*

    This is one of those respomses that seems extremely odd to (some) non-americans. In Australia it is absolutely standard that you would provide your current manager/supervisor as a reference. to the level where you would be expected to provide a clear reason why you can’t.

    1. amoeba*

      I’m German, work in Switzerland, and completely appalled by the idea – here, everybody’s *very* careful to keep things quiet until the contract is signed!

  45. Wtfrefernece*

    I had this happen to me last year. I took the interview, and they wanted a reference from my current supervisor. I had a good relationship with him and he knew I was looking and he was retiring. Always spoke very highly of me, but people pleased my way into his heart. I called him and asked if he would be a reference and said he didn’t feel comfortable while still employed at the same place. I was really put off by their insistence on his reference and this was a guy I liked and respected and liked and respected me. I also withdrew, the company then sent me multiple desperate attempts to get me to be employed by them. It was really really weird.

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