open thread – April 18, 2025

by Alison Green on April 18, 2025

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 591 comments }

{ 591 comments… read them below }

  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Just a heads-up that the site will be down for a little while later today (hopefully just 30-60 minutes if all goes smoothly) to move everything over to a new, more powerful server. So don’t be alarmed if you see that later today.

  2. Green Goose*

    Looking for a gut check. I’ve been in my current role for just under 18 months. I have 10 years of experience in this niche field and previously held a more senior title at a nonprofit. I took a step down in title (but up in pay) to do the same work at a tech company. I’m an individual contributor at level 4, there are 7 levels total for IC.
    While my boss is difficult, I’ve been trying to stick it out and plan to stay for about 2.5 years. At my last job, I was promoted every two years, and in tech, I’ve seen similar—or even faster—trajectories, including in my own division. My boss frequently praises my work, work ethic, and increasingly gives me more responsibility, including things that definitely fall under her purview but marked me “at level” in evaluations due to team size constraints, saying leadership wouldn’t allow her to rate both reports as “above level.” and that if she rated one of us at “above level” she would be required to rate the other as “below level” so she rated us both “at level”.
    As our next mid-year check-in approaches, I asked if we could start talking about the steps I’d need to take to reach the next level (level 5) by my two-year mark. To my surprise, she shut it down, saying I’m only “mid” in my current level and that promotion planning wouldn’t happen for another 18 months. She added that only those rated “above level” would be considered and told me it wasn’t her job to guide my growth—I’d need to present a plan, which she’d likely reject.
    I left the conversation frustrated and confused. Given how promotions typically work here, and that my responsibilities already align with the next level, I’m wondering—are my expectations unrealistic?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I don’t know if your expectations are unrealistic, but I do know that your boss is mercurial and deceptive.

      Do you have any coworkers outside of your boss’ chain that you trust to have an honest conversation with? I’d start there.

    2. Scriveaaa*

      Is there anyone else in the org you can ask to get a gut check on this? I think that would help confirm if the problem is your boss or (as your boss claims) the org.

    3. Kay*

      If nothing else, the comment about it not being her job to guide your growth sticks out to me. Would you be happy staying at this level for the foreseeable future? If not, I’d start job searching because she has basically told you that’s how it is. Does it really matter if the cause is the boss or the org?

      1. Green Goose*

        The gut check was more, if it seems like I was being unreasonable about asking about the promotion path before 18 months? Her reaction came across like it was out-of-touch for me to even ask at this point, which I don’t think it is but then it had me wondering if others thought I was asking too early/being unreasonable.

        I will definitely not stick around too long, but I have an upcoming move that makes it hard for me to leave before that unless I lucked out with a contract position. In the meantime I’m trying to learn as much, and gain as much experience as I can before I leave.

        1. HA2*

          Nah, tech moves fast. I remember at some point a few years back the AVERAGE tenure in a tech job was something like 2 years – having conversations after one year about what you need to do to move up to the next level seems totally normal to me IF your performance at your current level is good. (If you were struggling or on a PIP or something equivalent, it would be out-of-touch to ask about promotion paths, but if you’re doing well that’s a totally normal conversation to have after 1.5 years. It might not result in a short path to a promotion – could be totally reasonable to get the answer that “to be promoted, over the next year you need to show X/Y/Z – but it’s not out of touch to ask.)

        2. Cacofonix*

          I’m a manager with staff with niche skills in tech and after 18 months, you absolutely had standing to discuss this trajectory. In my field, I do a lot to make sure I keep good people, including guiding their growth. If I didn’t I’d have a heck of a time finding people with the skills I need, and it’s a boon to find someone I can give the kind of positive feedback you’ve been getting. I don’t know if niche means you’ve got rare and in demand skills, or if your skills are not easily transferable due to their “nicheness.” But either way you not only have a difficult boss but a bad one. Especially since she is weaselling out of performance ratings then saying you need to get an above rating that she won’t give you even then. In your shoes, I’d give her the growth plan and insist she go over it with you. Include specific accomplishments consistent with your next level and ask her where she sees gaps. Don’t let her shut you down or outright reject it, but be respectful, like of course as a manager she will be even more successful with a developed team so it’s in her best interests (people like that need to hear what’s in it for her, in my experience). Additionally, if you have good relationships with peers and managers on other teams, get a feel for how they do growth planning and promotions. Some ideas, should it help.

        3. anon tech worker*

          My career in recent years has been similar – higher level at a nonprofit, took an entry level remote tech job which paid nearly twice as much.

          I’m at my second tech company now, since after 2.5 years at the first, and witnessing over 100 external hires at that company, I accepted that I’d never get promoted internally and left. At my current company, I leveled up after only a year, and am working towards a second level up after 3 years with increased responsibilities.

          All that to say I think 18 months is more than reasonable to expect a promotion, especially if you’re in a startup environment. A supportive manager/company is also key, and I’m hoping you get that in your next role.

        4. Beth*

          No, it’s not unreasonable to ask about the promotion path at your stage. I work in tech, and typically either my manager explains the promotion path at the company independently during onboarding or around my 1 year mark, or I ask around the 1 year mark. The process isn’t supposed to be a secret.

          By 18 months, I’d be asking the same kind of question that you asked–I’m hoping to qualify for a level up, I think it makes sense as a next step based on the feedback I’ve received so far in this role, what needs to happen in the next 6 months to make it possible?

          1. Reluctant Mezzo*

            Basically, she was told ‘we’ll dump all kinds of responsibility on you but not pay you for it’ and ‘we already have our golden people pre-selected’. But perhaps my hearing was off.

    4. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      Your expectations are unrealistic in the sense that you probably can’t promote here because your boss doesn’t want to help you grow. As she said, she doesn’t see that as her job and she’s also ready, as a default position, to shoot down any growth plan you develop for youself. TBH, given her attitude, it sounds like she’s, at best, going to keep rating you “at level,” or, at worst, will later rate you “below level” since *someone* has to be “below level” for someone else to get “above level” and a path to promotion that comes with it.

      Your expectations are realistic in a general sense in that the boss *should* be helping with your growth, coaching you on improving your level 5 contributions so you have a path to that level 5 role. The problem is, that’s not how your bodd operates.

      I’d be planning to leave if I were you. The writing is on the wall that your current boss has no interest in promoting you, just reaping the benefits of your level 5 work without going to bat for you for formal recognition. Continue doing the work at the level 5 you want to be promoted to and look for outside opportunities that will give you that promotion. You’ll have a nice body of experience at that level that you can point to.

    5. HA2*

      Unclear whether your expectations are unreasonable because it depends on your performance.

      Unfortunately, your boss is not giving you honest performance evaluations. “I have to rate you at level because of my quota” is not an honest assessment of your performance, it means the performance review was just a box-checking exercise, and the real promotion path here is “whenever your boss kinda feels like it”.

      This seems like one of those cases where you might need to get a promotion by looking externally and moving on. In tech a 2-year stay isn’t abnormally short, I think.

      Also note that if this is a startup/small company in tech, the levels might be entirely made up or out of sync with the industry as a whole, small tech companies can have lots of issues.

    6. goddessoftransitory*

      From what you said here she sounds like she doesn’t want to lose you at the current level/bother training your replacement.

    7. Chauncy Gardener*

      I think your Plan A sounds like the best one. Your boss sounds Not Very Good, so just hang in there and build your resume as much as you can until you can flee for something better.
      I am really sure this is not about you.

  3. RussianInTexas*

    I want to circle back to the comment thread about the GenZ generation. I do not have much to say about the actual GenZ employees, I do not work closely with any, the folks of the generation I know, I know in my personal life and they are just folks, like everyone else. However, there was a comment late in the day that rubbed me the wrong way. The comment mentioned that strict starting times, WFH, dress code established in the 50s (sorry what?) are worth pushing back on 99.99% of jobs. I want to specify that the OP did not mention “office jobs” or “white collar” jobs. Just jobs.
    This view to me sounds like an extremely privileged white-collar office work bubble. And I work from home myself, although I have and always had, in my 25 years of working, strict starting and ending times, approvals for time off, and a minimum of 40 hours working per week, even though I am salaried exempt.
    The US BLS says for the year of 2023, “professional” employees were about 44% of the workforce. This includes education and healthcare professionals. More than half of the workforce are not “professionals”. Most of these employees cannot work from home. Most of them and a quite a few professionals must actually show up on time. Many of these jobs require uniforms. You want your doctor to be on time, no? You want your store, your daycare, your post office, etc to open on time, right? You want your goods to be delivered as promised? When you call somewhere with customer service issues, you want someone to be on the other line, no?
    I work in customer service and my colleagues and I have to work the standard business hours. That is fine. That is the job. Some people in my office work different hours because they have different responsibilities. The folks in the warehouse start at 7am sharp because pickups start at 8am, which is not actually even particularly early for a wholesale warehouse; I have seen receiving hours starting at 6am.
    I do not really want to sound adversarial. And many work norms are outdated, of course. But making sweeping declaration that everyone can be like a WFH white-collar professional that just can work independently at home – that is not well thought through.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Yes! Even jobs not thought of as “important” require things like punctuality and hygienic standards in order to exist and function as a business.

        Ask anyone who’s ever worked a shift job what happens when one employee is late starting or coming back from their break. It’s a rolling boulder of destroying other break times/meal clockouts and usually ends with at least one person missing their break altogether since it would be ten minutes before they’re off anyway.

        1. Yikes Stripes*

          I’m a home healthcare provider and one of my clients currently receives round the clock supervision/care. We cannot ethically leave until the next caregiver arrives and would absolutely be fired immediately if we did, so yeah, punctuality is extremely important to those of us getting off of a ten hour overnight shift (“those of us” meaning myself, of course)

    2. Yorick*

      Even in an office, start times CAN be important. If you’re working and your coworker is supposed to be available to help you with important matters starting at 8, it’s probably fine if they come in at 8:07 or 8:15 or whatever. But at some point it’s hard to do your job when they’re not there and you have no idea when they might come in.

      1. Tradd*

        In my office (international transportation), we work 8-5. The customers know it and expect us to be working and answering their responses during those hours. If my coworker doesn’t come in on time, I have to field calls from the customers HE handles, and vice versa.

        1. RussianInTexas*

          My office works 8-5 because we are wholesalers and work standard expected business hours. We work with customers.
          A marketing guy may work 10am-7pm, I cannot. I work 8-5.

          1. ScruffyInternHerder*

            Even ran into this in the construction world.

            The office was technically open from 6 til 5. Nobody worked more than 9 with an hour lunch, this was salaried/exempt and compensated accordingly. My department was the early one, we dealt with local trades who legit kept 7-3:30 hours, and good luck finding anyone after three. This was acknowledged and accepted that this was the local market, and since we were reliably there from 6-4, nobody said boo. Til someone came in from another office, and it ground him that we left before 5 or 6 p.m. Never mind that…we’d been there since 6 a.m. when he’d rolled in at 8 or 8:30 a.m. And that there was Very Little for us to do between 3-5 or 6 because…again, our roles dealt with local trades who did not keep those hours!

            1. Reluctant Mezzo*

              I was lucky to work for a swing shifter (Sarbanes-Oxley rules) and we were both extremely happy working 9-6. I was delighted to leave the 7:30-4:30 shift (though the company allowed early birds to shift hours earlier nobody was allowed to shift later except for the aforementioned special case).

        2. cncx*

          This is my job. We are internal client facing and we have to be ready to field calls at 8 and work until 5. I can’t flex my hours because I have to work when people are working. If my coworker is out, I have to take care of his customers too. One of us has to be in the office due to material we may have to give out. So yeah, Not All Office Jobs.

          At a friend’s job the one of the receptionists got fired because she couldn’t understand why she couldn’t work home office only from 6a to 2p lol (the clients aren’t going to be at her house at six am)…there are still jobs that require presence and firm hours.

      2. Funko Pops Day*

        Agreed– and in the letter, I believe they noted that they are in finance, where things like market openings are fixed and can matter a lot for certain roles!

        1. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Yes, so happy not to work for the stockbroker on Pacific time, they have to live on Eastern .

      3. Dinwar*

        How often does that come up, though? Most office jobs require asynchronous communications–you don’t NEED the information now, it’d be nice to have but you realistically need it within a certain timeframe. If you do need it sooner than that, most of the time you have access to the person’s telephone number (and these days we all have our cell phones on us essentially all the time).

        I’ve rarely been in a situation where I actually needed my coworkers to be present at 8 am in an office without all of us being well aware of the meeting we were attending. The times I have I was able to call the person. I can’t recall a single time in nearly 20 years where “Joe wasn’t in the office at 8 am” caused a real problem.

        I’m sure there are exceptions. But for most of those there’s built-in buffers. Like, the nurses and doctors I know expect to come in early and do pre-shift work for a bit, so if they’re 15 minutes late the patients never know. When I was working retail we were expected to come in a bit before the other folks’ shift ended, in theory so we could get set up but in reality to account for traffic issues. And where I’ve been in roles where I had to be in at a specific time I’ve always given myself a buffer–showing up 30 minutes before the team on jobsites, that sort of thing.

        1. Tradd*

          See, you’re exactly the type of person we’re talking about, who thinks that there is rarely a reason for specific start times. You don’t NEED the info now? Try telling that to my customers who are importers who in a panic about the changing tariff info and need info from me for a meeting with higher ups. Or to us trying to contact a customer to get info that’s needed for an air freight shipment that’s on customs hold.

          Just because YOUR job doesn’t require strict times doesn’t mean others don’t.

          1. Dinwar*

            Please calm down. Get some coffee, take a break, whatever you need. Getting this emotional about a random internet comment is irrational. And the inherent variability of job requirements is rather the point.

            In your case the answer to my question “How often does that come up?” is “Daily.” That’s fair–it’s a valid answer based on real considerations that sets the requirements for the job. But there are also huge swaths of the economy where the answer is “Maybe once a quarter, and we schedule that a month in advance.” In those cases having hard start/stop times is a power play, nothing more. My question was aimed at identifying the difference.

            1. Tradd*

              You’re the one who is generalizing for all white collar jobs that urgency doesn’t exist and strict times aren’t needed. A lot of us have jobs where urgency is built in and a fact of life. Taking 24-48 hours to get back to someone isn’t even an option in my industry. Having that sort of mindset gets you fired.

            2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

              Are you unaware that your first paragraph is incredibly condescending, or was that deliberate?

                1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

                  I wouldn’t pull the “calm down” card at all. That’s the condescending part.

                2. Bella Ridley*

                  You don’t actually need to tell someone you disagree with on the Internet that they need to calm down and they’re getting too emotional. You can just proceed with the rest of your statement without the condescending intro.

                3. Irish Teacher.*

                  I wouldn’t. I’d leave it out completely and wouldn’t make any assumptions about how other people were feeling. There was no reason to assume that Tradd was “emotional” or needed a break.

                  I’d just reply to the content rather than guessing at what Tradd might be feeling.

              2. Agreeing with Six*

                Yeah, responding to someone pointing out that saying “I just don’t believe that most jobs have that much urgency because mine doesn’t” in a thread about how AAM commenters have a problem recognizing that there are many jobs that differ from the widely-assumed desk-job-with-flexibility-and-low-urgency is, in fact, demonstrating the exact bias under discussion by telling them that they’re emotional and need to calm down is…a choice.

        2. RussianInTexas*

          My partner is a software engineer for a Very Large company with people in multiple time zones. They have meetings every other day, sometimes daily, at set times, and those times are very often 7am or 9am and non movable. Yes, you have to be available at those specific times. A lot.
          He also has to put out fires on not at all asynchronous basis pretty often. Yes, he is a white-collar office worker who works from home 3 days a week.
          I have to reply to the logistics person sometimes in minutes.

        3. Kay*

          In my experience, it happens a lot more than you think, its just that you might not realize the consequences. In my experience it is this kind of thing that, if it happens often enough or at the right time, it causes businesses to lose clients, impacts relationships, damages reputations, etc. Do I NEED the information now? If a company wants my business, that answer is often, YES!

        4. Kay*

          I think it comes up more often than you expect, it is just that you might not realize the consequences. When people expect to be able to get work things during business hours and can’t, they get frustrated and often take their business elsewhere. I can think of more than a handful of businesses just this week that didn’t get my/my clients business because I couldn’t get in touch with someone in the timeframe I needed. Those businesses had no idea why they missed out, some don’t even know they did!, but I assure you, more often than we are willing to acknowledge it impacts things.

        5. Irish Teacher.*

          When I worked retail, we weren’t given that buffer, which in effect meant if you were late, somebody might have to work over

          And as a teacher, well, yes, most of us do come in early, but that’s our choice. Our hours start when our students do so even 5 minutes late means students are unsupervised.

          I really need to be early, not just on time, let alone late, as my “start time” is the time I am meant to be in my classroom.

          I mean, I don’t doubt there are some bosses who make a fuss about people being late when it isn’t an issue just because they are unsure of their authority and afraid to let anything slip but that isn’t always the reason for concern

        6. Dolphins*

          “It’s not relevant to MY job so therefore it isn’t relevant to most jobs.”

          Okay then.

      4. AnotherOne*

        I refer to start times and end times in my office as -ish.

        We work 9-ish to 5-ish. One of my coworkers is in grad school. When he was hired, it was agreed that he’d worked a shifted schedule so he could make his night classes.

        We work in NYC. House hunting here can be very survival of the fittest (also known as yes, I’d love to see an apartment at 9am on a Monday before it’s gone at 5pm, who wouldn’t.) But our office gets it, so when people are apartment shopping, they may come in at 10:30 after viewing apartments.

        Or someone may come in to visit so you leave 20 minutes early.

        But the reverse side is- sometimes there is work that still needs doing and we’re there until 7pm.

        (That said, no one is just popping by our office to say hi. We’re lovely people but we’re not that kind of office.)

      5. some dude*

        Yeah. My org gives grace to folks that have long commutes or drop offs, but in general you are expected to be working from 9-5 and it matters. We have a ton of stuff to get done, you need to be available for meetings, you need to respond quickly to requests or inquiries…also you are being amply compensated so you need to actually be available. That also means that you are not expected to respond at 8pm or 5am, so there are guardrails.

      6. Spicy Moment*

        Agree. I used to work at a blue collar job. Even though start time would say 8:00 it was actually 7:45. This is due to policy and procedure.

        Your workplace may vary. I know plenty of gen z workers who are doing just fine, coaching is all that’s needed.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Yep. It’s “Be in your spot and ready to start work at 8,” Not “be in the building but start working 2o minutes later.”

        2. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Yes, when I was a nurse’s aide we had to be early for report and stay later to give report (not that the extra time was ever paid).

    4. Rags*

      I haven’t seen the results of the latest salary survey, but I feel safe in saying that a big chunk of the frequent commenters on AAM are white collar professionals who work on jobs that don’t have much immediate/in-person customer interaction that can be done at home on a more flexible schedule. I always think back to the posts Alison did about people who had to work in-person in 2020/2021 and there was a startling lack of empathy for people in those roles. I don’t think that’s indicative of of all readers here and I know it’s not true of Alison, but the most vocal people about WHF and boundaries seem to not have much blue collar or service industry experience.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah people who are loading boxes all day are probably not online during the workweek to be frequent commenters here.

        1. Tradd*

          Lunchtime! Heck, even those of us who work in an office may not have time/ability to comment otherwise during the work day.

        2. Rogue Slime Mold*

          This is a good point. (In many ways I view it as a negative that all of the tasks of my job have circled in to happen on the same little glowy box, which also happens to be where the best quick distractions are.)

        3. Tau*

          Time zone differences mean I get one post going up my early morning and then a big gap until late afternoon and evening, so I am not reading or commenting on AAM during the workday… but I don’t think that many blue-collar workers in my country are hanging out on English-language workplace advice blogs, especially because Alison’s advice is obviously very US-focused and I wouldn’t be surprised if the cultural gap is even stronger in those industries.

        4. Yikes Stripes*

          You might be surprised. I’m a home healthcare provider who works NOC shifts three times a week and I’d say that a solid five hours of any given ten hour shift are downtime. I get a lot of books read and a lot of embroidery done, and yeah, I dink around on my phone a lot.

    5. HannahS*

      Speaking as one of those people (why yes, people do indeed want their doctors to be on time!):
      I think this commentariat skews not just female/white-collar/middle class, but also specifically people who work desk jobs at computers. That’s the group that has the greatest ability to comment (because they’re at a desk, on a computer.) I find myself sometimes stunned by the collective forgetting that other kinds of work exist. And even being a female/middle-class person myself albeit a frontline healthcare worker, I’m sure I have a lot of blindspots about jobs involving manual labour.

      1. AnotherOne*

        And that’s something I acknowledge- at my current job, no one is going to just stop by to see someone so if you aren’t at your desk at some point during the work day, nbd.

        But that’s my job and our industry.

        But there are fields, including offices, where you expect to be able to “pop” by and get seen.

      2. Nightengale*

        People want their doctors to be on time, but if I arrive in the office for a 9 AM patient at 7:55, when I usually do, or take the later bus and arrive at 8:35, it doesn’t affect much.

        On the other hand, when the people who are supposed to start answering the phones in my office at 8:00 arrive routinely at 8:11, that is a problem. These calls are rarely emergencies and the issue may not be addressed until later in the day or even the next day – for example a form needing to be filled out – but the patients have a reasonable expectation the phones will be answered.

    6. I'm A Little Teapot*

      In general, if there’s norms that have stuck around for decades, I think they do need to be reconsidered. There may be good reasons for those norms. Or maybe they do need to be challenged and changed. That will apply to whatever field you’re in, from plumbing to trucking to accounting and everything else. But yet, this site does skew towards white collar professionals.

      Personally, I try to remember that the reality of my profession will be different from other professions, and therefore expectations of those in the profession should vary to account for different realities. But there is a base level of sanity and treating people well that has to be met, regardless of the profession. Unfortunately, as a society we do not always meet that minimum level.

      1. Tradd*

        I am a person who is always on time. Being consistently late is not one of my faults. So the people who bellyache about strict starting/finishing times just mystifies me. You know the schedule when you take the job. If you don’t like the strict schedule, don’t take the job! It’s as simple as that. If someone is in retail, not keeping to your schedule, especially if you have to open or close is going to get you fired very quickly, as others depend on you opening the store, for example. If you can’t keep to a strict schedule, find other jobs.

        1. allathian*

          Agreed. That said, when there is no particular reason for that sort of strictness, it’s a power play to apply it. Sure, CS reps need to be at work during opening hours, and you could argue that so do the employees who provide support to them at short notice. But that doesn’t mean that accounting, HR, payroll or other more asynchronous support functions have to follow the same schedule.

          I’ve never had any issues with being on time when the retail jobs I had required it. If I was late, it was for a good reason I really couldn’t help, like the time a commuter train was delayed for an hour because of an accident.

          That said, I really value the flexibility my current job gives me and I’d hate to lose it. If I lost it, I’d be far less willing to be flexible when it suited my employer. I work best when I’m allowed to start at 7:30 (office) or 6:30 (home). If I had to start at 9 I’d feel like I’d wasted more than an hour of my most efficient brain time. After 3 I’m just going through the motions without accomplishing anything unless I’m running on adrenaline and working on a tight deadline, and when I do that I’m useless for the rest of the day.

          I also don’t tolerate time blindness in my social contacts anymore, regardless of the reason. I can’t imagine valuing anyone’s friendship so much that I’d be willing to tolerate what I perceive as a total disrespect of my needs. If that makes me ableist, I can live with that. So I don’t schedule anything 1:1 with people in my social circle who have a flexible idea of start times. I get frustrated if I’m meeting a friend for coffee and they’re more than about 10 minutes late.

    7. Alan*

      It’s just some clueless person who overestimates their importance and knowledge of the world. I remember lots of these guys (they always seem to be male) when I was in my 20s.

    8. Lifelong student*

      I expect everyone to be on time- for work, for appointments, for social engagements. I cannot remember the specific comment about that being something that can be pushed back. Being on time is a courtesy to others. I see absolutely no problem in demanding that from employees. There is a reason medical facilities request that patients arrive 15 minutes before the appointment time. Others have obligations and schedules which are difficult to alter by someone who is not on time.

      2. Banana Pyjamas*

        It’s not reasonable to require patients to arrive 15 minutes early when doctors are routinely behind.

        1. RussianInTexas*

          I almost never do anymore because my providers do electronic pre-check so I don’t need to do paperwork. One of my doctors is ALWAYS on time, sometimes even a few minutes early, and I don’t know what magic she uses.

          1. Clisby*

            Maybe you get appointments earlier in the day? I always try to schedule as early as possible (7:30 a.m.? Great!) because there’s less chance the doctor will be late – not because she’s a deadbeat, but because each of the 5 previous appointments ran 5 minutes late, and now she’s starting out 25 minutes late for the next patient. The last thing I want is to lambast doctors for spending a few extra minutes with patients who need it.

        2. Lady Lessa*

          Preach it. I tend to take the last appointment of the day, since I work about 1 hour from home and the doctor. I don’t start counting wait time until my appointment time, and it is generally 30 minutes plus

        3. Snoozing not schmoozing*

          I always give surgeons a pass on promptness. I’ve had two surgeries that were scheduled to take 1 – 1½ hours that actually took 4 hours because my body has a tendency to have surprise nasty things that don’t show up on scans. Those doctors running behind schedule usually have their hands in someone’s body trying to get it to respond normally. I like knowing that they’re not doing surgery by the clock.

          1. Reluctant Mezzo*

            My dentist is occasionally late for the next patient because I have Exciting Teeth. I sometimes have to wait because the person before me also has Exciting Teeth (that would be a good band name, right?).

        4. Nightengale*

          As the doctor, I hate running behind but it is sometimes unavoidable due to the needs of the earlier patients. It’s easy to say, well if they need more than time allows, schedule another appointment, but in reality they may live 2 hours away and my next available follow-up slot is in 4 months.

          But the reason for the 15 minutes earlier in many offices is so the non-doctor things can get done before the actual appointment time. Check in and insurance and this form we are now supposed to have new patients fill out for social work and check vitals and take coats off and get settled in the room – all that can easily fill 15 minutes.

          Probably what we should really do for maximum transparency is not call that “early” but specify both a 9:15 arrival/appointment time and a 9:30 see your provider time.

          1. Mary*

            […] both a 9:15 arrival/appointment time and a 9:30 see your provider time.

            FWIW, this is what my doctor does.

          2. Reluctant Mezzo*

            Our local hospital does that. But if I have an afternoon instead of a morning appointment, the odds are really good everything is going to be late. But I know that because I am retired now and I don’t have to do mornings unless they say so.

    9. Stuart Foote*

      The AAM comment section seems to have librarians, academics, and non-profit workers heavily over-represented. There are a fair amount of out of touch comments complaining about stuff that is absolutely standard in most other professions. Like, I once had a sales job where I’d get to the office at 9:30 and sometimes get home from in person appointments at midnight or later, and it was 100% commission so you didn’t even necessarily get paid for this work. But here you have people acting like having to go out to a team dinner after a conference is modern day slavery.

      1. Yes Anastasia*

        I wouldn’t include librarians in this category! Many of us are customer-facing with rigid schedules and complex legacy workflows. A lack of government spending means that it’s difficult to find a new job if conditions are bad, so we’ve seen it all. Like other public sector workers, we’re not the most up to date on corporate norms, but we’re so poorly compensated that plenty of us have had side hustles in retail or multiple part-time jobs.

        I think white collar jobs in the corporate world are much more likely to be out of touch with the diversity of workplaces out there than folks in helping careers… but ultimately most of us are a bit myopic about the daily lives of people who aren’t us.

    10. Quinalla*

      Agreed, as other have said the folks who comment here skew heavily office jobs and obviously women as well and that includes me, but I do get tired of articles or responses that act like the office working world is all of the working world. Luckily, Alison is not one who does that which is good, but yeah folks commenting here and article out in the world often reduce all workers to office workers who are middle class at minimum. Uniforms make sense in a lot of professions.

      Challenging outdated workplace norms is great, but it isn’t across the board that all things are outdated in all workplaces the same way!

      1. RussianInTexas*

        The whole “dress code from the 1950s” was a bit much for me too. Except some VERY narrow fields, how many decades it’s been since women been required pantyhose and heels, men require ties and suits? Business casual in most offices nowadays leans pretty heavily on casual.

    11. HA2*

      Yeah, I think the general statement of “starting at a particular time is outdated” is overly focused on a specific type of job they had in mind.

      I do think in general Alison’s approach here is good – generally approach these questions from the point of view of “what is the business need that this requirement is addressing”. Some office norms are just historical/cultural and it makes sense to push back on. Others continue to be crucial.

    12. Head Sheep Counter*

      It was an interesting comment for an issue about folk being out of touch with work place norms.

      Its normal to have strict working hours, behavior expectations, wardrobe expectations and expectations around handling customers/clients. Its also normal to have those expectations enforced. And its not clear that those expectations need to be explained as to why they exist… the employer has the power here with this sort of thing (as long as it’s fairly communicated during the on-boarding process). Its a kindness to explain why one’s industry does X (has a uniform, has set hours or whatever).

      Sometimes reading the comments here there’s a wild supposition that the power between the employer and the employee is with the employee (and if one is willing to leave a position… it is but… if one needs a job…). We can and should speak up about things that are wrong or could be improved. But sometimes a job is just a job. Sometimes… we are wage “slaves” as the world moves on currency and not wishful thinking.

    13. Saturday*

      Agree with all your points. And even in non-customer-facing office jobs, it can make sense for people to be available at a certain time. At any rate, the person to push back on things like start times is the conscientious person who is doing well at their job, not the person who is always complaining and doesn’t take feedback well.

      And dress codes from the 50s? Most of us would look like total slobs if we suddenly walked into a 1950s office.

    14. Goldie*

      I happen to have the day off today, but I am astonished how many people are back and forth on these treads on Fridays in the middle of the day. I always have the last comment of the thread because I am reading them on Saturday or Sunday. So yes, a large number of people commenting are working from home, with a flexible schedule engaging in social media during work hours. I just don’t have time during work to dive in for more than 5 minutes.

      Sshhh….and I like my job and don’t mind working in the office.

      2. nnn*

        But there was similarly high engagement years ago before remote work was so common so remote work really isn’t the explanation for that. People have desk jobs where they can take breaks and go online, or they’re at lunch, or they’re in a different time zone than you.

        1. Tea Monk*

          I am reading and working at the same time a lot of the time. Paperwork is boring and even if I did it straight through no distractions, my energy will flag

      3. bay scamp*

        I don’t consider this site to be “social media,” and apparently neither does my job since facebook, instagram, and such are blocked there but this site is not. I look at this site at work during breaks or lunch, as others have mentioned, and I am not a remote worker. I actually usually comment on evenings or weekends as well though, because I don’t particularly want work IT knowing my “handles” or whatever. If I really feel like I have to comment during work hours (which I think has happened twice ever), I use my personal cell when not on the work wi-fi.

    15. Seashell*

      I would count it as a minor miracle if any of my doctors were on time. I plan to wait a minimum of 15 minutes at every appointment.

      1. Rara Avis*

        My doctor is almost always always running late, but that’s because the system only allows for 15 or 30 minute appointments, and she sits down with me and gives me the time I need to resolve my health issues, so I assume that’s what she’s doing with all her patients. I bring a book and try to to remind myself that it’s worth the wait.

        1. Clisby*

          Same. I do my best to get the first or second appointment of the day, when the doctor’s had less time to get behind, but that doesn’t always work out.

    16. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

      Thank you for this. It is incredibly valuable to remember that white collar office jobs are not all jobs—or even necessarily the majority of jobs. Comment sections that heavily skew in a particular way can give extremely warped views of what “work” means or is like.

    17. Yoli*

      Well-said, and I’d add that hearing and moving employees’ concerns up the pipeline is part of a manager’s job, but usually not the whole job, and sometime the answer is, “you may have a point, but actually X duty of my actual responsibilities needs my attention right now, and yes, I’m prioritizing that over the scale of change you’re asking for.”

      I think that’s a drawback of the “it doesn’t hurt to ask” advice, given the homogeneity of the commenters on this website. As a Black female supervisor of mostly white people (in a field predominated by white women) I have had to call people out on their implicit bias towards “Black women will save us” that leads them to expect my sole role to be fighting battles on their behalf, some valid, but many not in service of our mission (this is a helping profession).

    18. HBJ*

      Could not agree more. This has long been an issue I’ve had with the comment section on this site. I remember pre-Covid, it seemed like the comment section’s answer for every office issue was “just WFH.” Completely ignoring that the majority of people can’t do that, even post Covid.

    19. Jess*

      There are certainly jobs that don’t lend themselves to flexible hours. But there are many including customer service that do. Just as long as there are some that are there when the business opens and closes. And having some start early to finish early late to finish late means someone is there to do the set up packing up paperwork restocking etc. How often are customers left waiting as the staff have to spend the first 5-10 minutes setting up and packing away.
      I remember working somewhere with poorly designed desks where staff were expected to maintain a clean desk policy so paperwork had to be shuffled in and out of drawers and cupboards every time they saw a new customer. An l shaped desk would have worked ie keep the part the customer/client sits at free but partially completed paperwork can remain on the non customer facing section!

    20. Former Preschool Teacher*

      In early childhood education, there are legally mandated ratios. If a teacher is late, we literally cannot open the doors. At one site I worked at, this wasn’t uncommon since most of the staff lived in the valley where housing was cheaper and traffic could be brutal. They’d try to send a manager from the office, but with multiple sites, there wasn’t always enough coverage. So, yeah, being late had a direct impact on services, and also a downstream effect on parents who ended up running late to work or other drop offs.

  4. K*

    How do you explain a lateral move in job interviews? My current job pays under market value, it’s the main reason people leave the company. I’m applying for similar roles, same job title and responsibilities just more pay. When they ask why you’re leaving your job what can I say since people are weird about bringing up pay in interviews? In the past I’ve used answers like looking for growth, more responsibility, long term opportunities, etc . But on paper I’ve gotten a fairly recent promotion (better title and more work but still terrible pay), and people in the industry will know the company is doing well and growing. The truth is I really like what I do and I want to continue doing it, but I’d also like to be able to pay my bills. What’s the corporate nice way of saying that?

    1. Angstrom*

      “My current compensation is well below industry standards, and I’d like to change that.”?

      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        yes then list reasons why the company you’re interviewing with would be a good fit or what you like about it. So
        “My current compensation is well below industry standards, and I’d like to change that. thats one reason why I’m drawn to X company, a well as A, B, C reasons.

    2. SansaStark*

      You could say that you’re looking for a new challenge. For example, if you do XYZ at your company, and you see a listing that’s lateral but includes ABC, you could say that that’s always been an area of interest, or you had done it at a previous company, etc. and that’s what attracted you to this role. Employers really want to hear what attracts you to their role, not as much about why you want to leave your current one, so focus on that.

      1. Kay*

        I would be careful with just saying that. There are going to see she just had a promotion so they are going to, rightfully, wonder about why that didn’t satisfy her desire for a challenge. I think naming the issue is going to be the best route, it will serve to weed out anyone not interested in acknowledging we work for money, ala OPs current company.

        I think Beth’s suggestion is spot on.

    3. Beth*

      I’ve had success saying things like “I’ve enjoyed my time at [company] and grown a lot here, but my compensation is below market value and it’s become a problem. I’m looking for a role where I can bring my experience in XYZ and continue to do the work I love without that worry. That’s why I’m so excited about this role! It sounds like your team really focuses on X and Y, which are my favorite parts of my current role. Can you tell me more about your approach to X?”

      People mostly understand that work is a thing we do for financial reasons. If you’re being underpaid, or your company is showing signs of financial instability, or you’re dealing with another similar practical concern, I’ve found it’s easiest to just be upfront about that. They just want to hear that you have a normal reason for job hunting–as long as you don’t say something like “My manager SUCKS, she put me on a PIP just because I leave work after lunch every day and missed two major deadlines,” you’ll be fine.

    4. Office Plant Queen*

      I think it’s alright to bring up pay in this context. You have to thread the needle a bit to make it clear you aren’t going to jump ship the second an even better paid opportunity comes along, and you do have to have things you like about the company you’re interviewing with.

      So something like, “Unfortunately the pay is under market at my current company, so I’m looking for a position that can offer me more financial security. I really enjoy the work I do and would love to keep doing something similar at this company. I’ve found in my current role that I value [things you like, like strong collaborative relationships with coworkers, a fast pace, etc] and I’m hoping to find those things here as well”

    5. Green Goose*

      If you are looking to change industries you could frame it as learning about the new industry. I do a job that I used to do at a nonprofit and now I do it at a tech company. My day-to-day duties are the same but the ecosystem is totally different so I’m learning a lot about the new field.

  5. GeorgiaB*

    I work for a government contractor. One of the big 10 that the administration is specifically targeting. Two of my team of 10 have already been laid off. Three more are in their 2 week lack of work notice. These are high-performers who have done great work across a number of projects, and I can’t save them because there is literally no work for them to do. I’m finding it really demoralizing to have to tell people that they’re doing everything right and it’s still not enough. At the same time, I’m wondering when my name is going to end up on the list and after almost 15 years at my company, I’m starting to actively job search again. Based on my time and my level, I will get 4.5 months of severance, but most of the people who are being laid off now are getting less than a month. I don’t know that I really have a question, mostly just saying that this sucks.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Keep in mind, you’re caught up in something much bigger than you, and everyone understand this. This isn’t something you can really fix single-handedly when even people in power don’t seem to be able to do anything. Take it easy on yourself. And yes, job search.

    2. mac and cheese*

      I work for a type of government contractor where we are embedded within the agency. The writing has been on the wall for a while now but the recently leaked passbacks indicate that there will be even more destruction than anticipated, both at our agency and with a sister agency that is being brutally gutted. Thousands of phd specialists will be released into a private sector that can maybe absorb a few dozen, and even that private sector is heavily reliant on federal products that are about to vaporize. My employer gives no severance and does not even pay out annual leave, and we have no idea if we will get advance notice or if there will just be an email at 10 pm on a Saturday night like they are doing to the civil servants.

      I have worked at three of these agencies over my career, and pretty much everyone I have ever worked with is about to be unemployed, everything all of us have ever worked on is about to be burned to the ground. The meetings that we still have discussing agency plans for the 2040s are like some kind of absurdist farce. The hostile wording of press releases crowing about the cancellation of contracts and grants is nauseating. People will die due to what they are cutting.

      I don’t really have an answer to your non-question, but this sucks so much it is hard to even wrap your head around it, and that is without even considering the whole rest of what is going on.

      1. LBD*

        I’m sorry that this is happening, and that you are so caught up in it. I wish I had something encouraging to offer you, but here we are.
        All that I feel like I can do is to make an effort each day to actively look for a chance to make something better for someone.

    3. Palmer*

      “You are doing excellently. Everything Id expect of you. The current state of affairs is not a reflection of you, your work or even our team. It is a shift in the headwinds of the government. It is entirely reasonable to not like this well-built team being wound down, I dont think it is the right step either. But we must turn our focus to what we can control, such as next career steps. I of course will be advocating for all of you and ma happy to provide a reference. Please take care of yourselves.”

      Changing the focus from what they need to do to “save their job” is probably worthwhile. Its likely nothing they do will save their job.

      Sorry you’re going through this. It sucks.

    4. Jess*

      You can continue to tell them how great they are and be honest about the situation. They would already know if they read the news. And offer to act as a referee.
      Terrible situation for you all!

    5. Reluctant Mezzo*

      Almost everyone I know realizes the arbitrary reasons for being fired from the government (which sadly gives cover to the real screwups).

  6. ashie*

    We are about to announce the success of a multiyear project, a huge achievement in our industry, it’s potentially national news and the pinnacle of my career… and I just got an email from a partner claiming that there’s no way we’ve achieved what we say, and threatening to blast us to our funder, the news, and god knows who else.

    We have nothing to hide, our funder has been in the loop all along, and I have the data to prove everything, so I’m not especially concerned that it will come to anything. It just really sucks that we have this one bright happy thing coming up in a really crappy year and she’s trying to bring us down. I want to be celebrating, not worrying about her noise. =(

    1. bananners*

      If you are able to ignore it, you should! If you can remind your team to ignore it, you should. I work on a project that is very innovative, undoubtedly successful, and receives a lot of public recognition without us even having to push. We have several detractors and they used to really bother me. Over time, I have come to … dare I say, pity them. I certainly can empathize with their concerns.

      Congratulations on your major achievement, and ignore the haters!!

    2. JSPA*

      I think You do want to respond to take down the temperature a bit. Maybe, “We were startled, ourselves, at how fast everything came together, but the numbers are solid. It would be my pleasure to walk you through some of the details, and then take updated feedback once you’ve had time to mull it over. I can do 45 minutes on Tuesday afternoon, if that works for you?”

    5. GTG*

      Well be sure to tell us what it is once the news is public so we can celebrate with you! Pinnacle of your career national news calls for celebration! Is there anyone above you that can address the party pooper for you? Sounds pretty unprofessional and out of line to me, ugh.

      1. JR17*

        Came here to say something similar. Can dealing with this person be someone else’s
        Job? Maybe your communications team, if you have one?

    6. Calamity Janine*

      the fact you did not already cheerfully reply with a passive-aggresive note is a testament to your professionalism. i would be far too tempted to skip over her meanness and go full Pollyanna as you thank her for her support in this time and how you’re just so very thrilled that she wants to help the PR department spread the word! you’ll get her the press release to link after the funder gives the final draft the okay! isn’t all this success just wonderful?!

      …that’s not helpful so honestly go with JSPA’s suggestion, as it is a very artful and skilled way to judo around this energy to return it to sender. if she wasn’t a partner, and therefore presumably has little infrastructure in this respect, i would suggest looping in someone above her head. unfortunately it’s time to outwit, outlast, outplay.

  7. Eeyore's missing tail*

    I’ve been invited to go to South Korea this summer for work! This the first time I’ve traveled as an employee and not a graduate student. Does anyone have tips for a first-time business traveler? I’m going with several South Koreans and have been working on learned Korean for a bit, so I’m not quite as worried about getting around and my terrible Korean.

    1. Eeyore's missing tail*

      I should that I’ll be gone 12 days. I’m working 8 and taking 4 off so I can do some sight seeing and touristy things. :)

      1. President Porpoise*

        Learn some basic phrases if you haven’t already! And know your currency conversion rates. Make sure you have all your needed vaccinations and entry requirements done (S. Korea has something related to covid right now, I believe.) Make friends with locals who you work with and see where they like to eat and what they like to do. Stay awake on your whole flight and go to bed at the local time to reduce jet lag as much as you can. And make sure to have some fun!

        1. Eeyore's missing tail*

          I have my basic phrases – I’m now practicing them so I don’t sound quite so stilted. I’m working on the entry requirements as well. I’m going to try to stay awake the whole time, but we’ll see how that goes. I won’t have 2 little kids running around me (or at least not my kids), so I may just pass out on the plane. :)

      2. Rogue Slime Mold*

        South Korea is hugely into hiking, if that is something you’re into.

        Also there are two (!) museums of kimchi in Seoul, which I keep trying to convince my traveling spouse to visit.

        1. Eeyore's missing tail*

          I’m up for hiking, but it depends on the weather. Hopefully it will be nice enough for it!

          I saw one kimchi museum, but I didn’t know there was second one. I kind want to hit all of the weird little museums in Seoul while I’m there.

      3. Thorn of Queens*

        I loved the Cultural Village in Suwon if you’re up for a day trip from Seoul. But I lived there 20 years ago! I second the kimchee museum -if you go to the one on Insasong leave yourself time to shop and eat, as it’s a lovely street. My office was there and I never tured of it. Looks like my favorite restaurant – Sanchon – is still there. It serves temple food.

        I would brush up on cultural taboos and basic practices as well as phrases. For example, it’s customary to pour liquor for one another and generally you don’t pour your own, money is often handed with two hands, etc.

        You generally won’t be expected to know everything as a foreigner, but it’s a good idea to avoid more serious faux pas (writing in red, etc) and knowing more can show respect.

        If you’re at all into skincare or makeup, they have some great products.

        1. Eeyore's missing tail*

          Thank you! I hope I have time to see the Cultural Village. It sounds great.

          I have been working on learning taboos so I can avoid them. Last thing I want to do is embarrass myself or my colleagues.

    2. Annyeong*

      Dress formally. It’s always better to show up overdressed than underdressed. For men, that means suits and ties. For women, keep your shoulders covered.
      It can be muggy in summer, so plan ahead for what clothing options will look like.
      In addition to some language/phrases do some homework on greetings/formalities. Generally you refer to folks by their title or an honorific, NOT their first name.
      Socializing with your colleagues is really big in Korea. Like out to dinner after work, then drinks, then noeraebang (karaoke). Food is always typically served with alcohol, definitely take advantage of that. It’s hard to say no, but strategies like keeping your glass full and not finishing it may prevent it from being re-filled.
      More for your personal travel when you are in rural areas, google “squatter toilet” in advance so you are prepared on how to use it.
      I lived in Korea but it was awhile ago, so take the advice with a grain of salt, but that’s where I’d start.

      1. Eeyore's missing tail*

        Thank you! I ordered a blazer earlier this week since I donated my last one at least 5 years ago. And I didn’t think about honorifics, so I’ll definitely be up on that.

        Thanks for the heads up on socializing. I read some about it, but didn’t realize it could be quite that intense. I kind of want to see some of my faculty do karaoke, but I’m also kind of scared of that.

        1. Chauncy Gardener*

          The socializing is super intense. Really watch your drinking. Try to get at least one non alcoholic drink for every alcoholic drink. And don’t drink all of each alcoholic drink.
          Ask me how I know…..urghhhhhhhh

    3. Former academic*

      Comparing travel to academic conferences to the work trips I’ve taken in industry– conferences often have an extremely social vibe because it’s kind of an academic version of a class reunion (other faculty = your old grad school classmates & friends), where you sort of expect every meal will be with a group, heavy drinking can be part of the culture, etc. My work trips have had way less alcohol and only some meals together (e.g., if several of us were on the same flight in, we’d have dinner together the night before the meeting, but otherwise everyone might do dinner on their own and not try to meet up.) Of course, those have been short domestic trips where most people had traveled to the area before; your mileage may vary for the kind of international trip you’re describing!

      General international travel advice– look into whether it’s easy to get a physical SIM or if you should get an eSIM pretravel, so that you can have a functioning mobile device; but also get a translator app that can work offline & download a map that works offline (I have used Google Maps/Translate for this). There are also currency converter apps so that you can check prices in real time if you’ll be doing much shopping.

      1. Eeyore's missing tail*

        Thank you! It’s going to be a mix of meeting with different universities and government groups as well as an academic conference.

        I didn’t think about a currency converter. Thanks!

    4. JustKnope*

      1) Make sure you know your company’s travel policies well! Understand if you have per diems for expenses or caps for individual meals. Another example: my company will pay for water bottles in hotel rooms, so that’s a nice perk to be aware of in advance, but it’s only water bottles – I can’t drink the sodas or alcohol in the room fridge. Can you get an international data plan paid for? Etc! 2) Try to look somewhat presentable while flying, but you don’t need to be in business casual. 3) Culture around evening engagements varies, but in my experience, the folks hosting the meeting will plan at least one evening meal/drinks for socializing even if it’s not formal.

      1. TQB*

        Related: can you get a corporate card? If not, consider getting a separate credit card for expenses. Makes accounting much easier when you inevitably lose receipts.

      2. Eeyore's missing tail*

        Good call! I’ve checked my institutions polices and I think I’m set on that. I’m working my travel outfit. I’m trying to find something that’s nice enough I won’t be embarrassed if I see someone I know, but also comfortable for a 15 hour flight.

    5. IHaveKittens*

      All really good suggestions here. I’d add that you need to be aware of the time difference and the need to build in some recovery time on both ends of the trip. You didn’t mention where you are located, but South Korea is a pretty long trip from North America or Europe.

    6. There Will Be Cats*

      So exciting! I’ve been to S Korea for work a couple of times. Err towards more formal on everything, if you’re unsure. Give and take business cards with both hands and read it then rather than put it away right away (although probably even the prevalenceof business cards there may have changed in the last five years).

      Take a food tour!

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        Yes to the more formal. Also, Korean politics is in uproar right now, so I’d stay firmly out of it.
        Someone asking about your family and if you are married is a very normal part of small talk, so don’t be surprised.

    7. Reg*

      Congratulations! Sounds very exciting.

      I don’t mean to inject a downer, but… If you live in the U.S., under the current state of affairs, I would think about what happens when you fly back. Consider taking a copy of your birth certificate with you (if born in the US) in addition to your passport. Have extra copies of both. Consider taking a burner phone instead of your regular phone which might have texts or emails on it about the current political climate, since it might be searched and these days it seems like almost anything can get you in trouble. I would also consider googling what other precautions to take when traveling internationally and trying to get back into the country. *Sigh*

    8. BigLawEx*

      The best thing I did: get business cards that are translated into Korean on the reverse.

      1. Bay*

        I live in Japan and have only visited S. Korea for short sightseeing trips, but I second the recommendations re: business cards, and I also suggest a little case to carry them. In Japan and probably in Korea it’s much better to carefully store them in a designated place than shove them into a pocket or a book.

        If you’ll be using public transportation, think about a place to keep your IC card that is always easy access and always consistent.

        Some Korean toilets don’t accept toilet paper and it goes into a basket off to the side, but for some flushing is OK. There’s usually signs with images to clarify, or evidence like a prominent bin of used toilet paper next to the toilet. Outside of cities it’s often BYOTP.

        Google Maps isn’t very accurate in much of South Korea because it hasn’t been able to comply well with their security needs (I think?) and a local app like Naver might be necessary, especially for walking routes.

        Many people over study too many words and don’t really master any of them before a trip. ‘Hello’ and ‘thank you’ are essential and ‘sorry’ is so important, so make sure all those can trip off your tongue right away. Being able to recognize your favorite things on a menu would be great, but lots of them will have pictures you can point to, and it sounds like you’ll be in good hands with your traveling companions.

        I think sleeping on long flights is great if you can. You’ll be plenty tired afterwards no matter what. Hydration is a huge part of jet lag and I notice a big difference between the aftermath of long-haul flights where I drink plenty and those I don’t.

        Incheon airport has free showers that are clean and nice.

        Have fun! South Korea is so much fun to visit!

        1. Eeyore's missing tail*

          Thanks for all of the tips! And I had no idea the Incheon airport had showers. I might have to build that into my travel time.

      2. Eeyore's missing tail*

        Oh, that’s a good idea! I’ll have to see if we can make that happen. Thanks!

  8. Stop PMing Me*

    I’m struggling to articulate my preferences wrt task management. When I create tasks for myself, I truly mean them, in that I won’t leave for the day until X is done. For example, today I have one self-created task: “send boss the Y report” which is due today. It’s high priority and it’s the only thing that matters. It doesn’t actually matter if I “created the final draft” yesterday, Wednesday or this morning – but it has to be sent today. However, I always have issues with the type of coworker who loves to make a lot of tasks for other people in a program like asana or Monday. It seems bananapants to me to make this task into seven steps: 1. Think about the report (log in and check this task off). 2. Chitchat about the report (log in and check this task off). 3. Outline the report just for myself (log in and check this task off). 4. Create a draft report just for myself (log in and check this task off). 5. Edit the report (log in and check this task off). 6. Send draft report to boss (this is the only real task). (log in and check this task off) 6. Boss submits report (assigned to me?). That made it so much harder and more confusing and complicated than it really is. Plus, all these other “tasks” just obscure the one actual critical task and make it more likely to be skipped.

    If a bunch of random, no-context tasks start showing up on my dashboard, *especially* if they’re not REAL deadlines (“talk to boss” – that’s not a task? It’s a meeting? And my boss has to set it, as her schedule is busy?) I run the risk of starting to ignore them all. I’m starting to wonder if maybe I have some form of executive dysfunction applying here where these “intermediate” tasks are really just messing me up. I’m also suspicious it’s more fun to assign other people tasks, vs … doing your own work. How can I push back to coworkers who are assignment-happy?

    1. MsM*

      Can you just tell them you prefer using the tool to communicate steps that require other people to be in the loop? Or even just say “thanks, but I prefer to handle entering my own tasks”?

    2. Scriveaaa*

      I don’t think you’re crazy at all. I find it helpful to think about software like Asana or Monday as having two purposes:
      – Your own task management
      – Big picture views (Keeping others up-to-date on what you are doing / Seeing what others are doing)

      I tend to default to tasks w/ multiple steps like your coworker. Cause I like to see what step I am on. Maybe it’s just her habit. Or maybe it reflects a bigger need for her or the org to understand where you are at with a project. Do you have a sense of which it is?

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Oooh this is a really good question.

      I find myself doing this when I start something new – I go overboard on creating subtasks (for myself and others), but then I pretty quickly realize what I’m doing and correct. Are you doing post-mortems/sprint reviews/etc (either you individually or as a team)? That’s a good way to get to the point of “We always create 4 subtasks for Teapot Assembly – get tools, lay out parts, complete assembly, return tools – and they always get completed on the same day by the same person. Can we just condense those into one task?”

      Another thing you might be able to use when pushing back: “Don’t confuse motion for progress”. Creating all these subtasks doesn’t actually move the team closer to your goal, and in fact creates friction that slows things down.

      Finally, can you suggest that they put all this extraneous stuff in the free-form description field of the task? title = “Create Q4 Llama Health Report” description = “boss wants to meet about this before starting it (see Slack of 3/17); use standard outline but add appendix C to address dental care”

      PS – why are you logging in over and over again? I always have my project tool open in a browser tab, and I turn off as many notifications as possible. I look at the project tool more often than I look at my email.

      1. Stop PMing Me*

        Yeah, to me people who do this are essentially “thinking out loud” or verbally processing, except they’re verbally processing … on my home screen. And we have multiple project management tools (a whole other issue), partly because I keep shifting so I can keep my “clean” REAL task list, but then others end up trying to adapt that for themselves.

    4. Mad Scientist*

      Not familiar with the task management software you mentioned, but this concept irks me too. I recently had a meeting to coordinate who was doing various tasks in order to meet a deadline the following week. After the meeting, I sent out a quick recap of action items with hard deadlines, e.g. “Suzie – create budget by Wednesday, Steve – create schedule by Thursday, Sally – send budget and schedule to client by Friday”. What I got back in response? A rambling mess of suggested interim fake “deadlines”, which were not what we discussed in the meeting at all and felt oddly hand-holdy to me, e.g. “review background info by tomorrow, discuss budget concerns by Monday, ask Sam for help by Tuesday”. Like, I understand wanting to make sure people leave enough time for less obvious tasks, but those aren’t actual deadlines. Unless you’re very entry level or have shown signs of struggling with time management, it comes across as micromanaging!

    5. juliebulie*

      I have a similar situation. I have my own system, which helps me stay on top of what is sometimes a real juggling act. Many of our team leaders use various systems to send tasks and subtasks. Most people ignore the subtasks, and it’s never a problem, and the person who made all the subtasks doesn’t do it again (it’s a lot of work for very little gain). But the next person has to re-learn that lesson all over again.

      As for the main tasks, I’ll update status once in a while and mark it as closed when it’s done, if the person who created them doesn’t do it (they usually do). But the subtasks, they are a waste. By the time someone asks me about them, I usually already have the thing in review.

      I don’t know if this is an executive functioning thing or not. My executive functioning is not great, but I know how to do my job and I don’t need other people to tell me what the steps are. (Your boss’s steps are comical.) And micromanaging small tasks is not a good use of time.

      But if this is your boss cluttering you up with subtasks, I’m not sure you can safety ignore those, but as I’ve said, in my experience even the people who create the subtasks seem to realize with time that they are overkill.

      You should also be aware (and probably are) that the people who create subtasks for your work are most likely doing this not to help you, but to manage their own anxiety about meeting deadlines. It might be helpful to just let them know periodically that you are on track to get that report done by whatever o’clock.

      1. Stop PMing Me*

        My theory is that everyone finds it fun to assign a bunch of other people a lot of subtasks, and nobody really finds it fun to spend their days doing other people’s assignments.

        1. juliebulie*

          Oh, yeah. Plus writing out all those subtasks makes you feel like you’re really accomplishing something. It’s super easy to write stuff down!

    6. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

      If anyone other than my boss assigned me a task I would swat them. Not physically of course but I’d be slapping that task last back across the net hard enough to sting. Can you decline this crap? Is it possible to ask them not to include your name on anyother thsn an actual scheduled meeting or a real deadline?

    7. Quinalla*

      I’m with you. Folks should be coordinating better with you and being consistent with task on a shared task manager. My job is very deadline oriented and we are all very clear about what should go in the milestone portion of our project management tool and what goes elsewhere and what gets tracked by each individual. I would just ask folks to stop making subtasks for you and just put the main task with the real due date in and you will create subtasks as needed (or not).

    8. DefinitiveAnn*

      I’m a huge fan of checklists for myself (the teapot example below with four items is a good example) but I wouldn’t think to put these as tasks for others on a dashboard.

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        It varies for me, I use the checklist style with people who don’t get back to me on smaller items, disrespect my time or who need more direction. I also use them for infrequent tasks that require external collaboration. For example, if we want an article in the internal company newsletter. it needs x amount of lead time and a bunch of approvals from busy higher ups so I want to make sure we account for that time.

    9. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      That list is someone else deciding how you write a report. Is this multiple people so it appears to be a norm in the workplace? Is this the same person every time so you could talk with them about preferring to establish your own subtasks? (and then you don’t)

      One question that comes to mind is whether these others are any kind of collaborator or approver, and if so what kind of proactive communications you provide. If they feel as if you get an assignment, “disappear,” then show up on the last possible day with the work done they may have anxiety around the parts of it that affect them or that they’ll be asked about. “How’s the Y report coming along?” when they have no idea vs when they can say “They’ve done the early brainstorming and are working on the outline now.”

      If the approach is to have check-ins at specific points for someone to review/comment those could be logical on a taskboard so others see the intersection between their role and yours: A reviews XYZ, sign-off from A needed to move to next stage. Maybe these are all things where no one else has a connection to the deliverable so this wouldn’t be relevant.

      If they do have a connection to your work flow I frequently recommend The Management Center for their tools for establishing responsibilities and systems. They talk about having an “early slice” check-in to make sure you and whoever will ultimately decide if it’s acceptable are on the same page about direction, content, methods, whatever. It isn’t saying “on Tuesday you’ll be doing this”. Maybe there’s a direct conversation about which types of communication are helpful for people to know what’s happening, and the taskboard isn’t the place for that communication to come out of the blue.

      As a supervisor of others, I’ll say that planning to wait until the last day something is due and then crank it out isn’t all that reassuring. Maybe that isn’t what you’re saying. If someone tends to be radio silent and then send me something at midnight, I’d want some communications well before that about overall workload so I know you’re slammed and have to use the just-in-time approach and we’d be talking about adjusting expectations (could be mine, could be yours, depending on other factors). What if you’re suddenly sick, your laptop chooses that day to poop out, you lose wifi just when you need it, etc. etc.

      Good luck!

    10. JR17*

      I’ve recently been thinking about the distinction between project management and task management. I love Monday for project management – what are the key elements of the project, who is doing them, when are they due, and what notes/links/documents etc will provide helpful context. (And I especially love that I can copy the board and be 80% of the way done project planning next time we do a similar project, especially when there’s a staff change and the new person needs to know how this was done in the past).

      For me personally, breaking down a project into very micro tasks is helpful. Knowing a big piece of a project is due next Thursday isn’t especially helpful. I need to know what specific things I need or want to accomplish today to make that happen. I used to keep that level of detail in Monday, but as you said, it often doesn’t matter when those tasks get done (except as it relates to making progress on the whole), other priorities come up, etc. So I felt a sense of failure as I was constantly changing deadlines in Monday, plus it was taking so much time that I was abandoning Monday altogether. So now I keep my tasks on a page on OneNote. I make little checklists for bigger projects to keep track (though those might also be useful to keep in the notes section of a relevant Monday entry). And I also keep a running list of tasks for today, this week, and after this week, and I prioritize the tasks on my today list. I still struggle with putting an unreasonable number of tasks on my today list, but this system is helping more than any of my (many) past ones!

      As assigning other people tasks in Monday, I’m a fan of only assigning the final product and letting them manage how they get there.

  9. Concerned Sister*

    What jobs are available for those with an Associate’s Degree? My sister is looking to get out of retail and into a more 9-5 M-F office job but for a variety of reasons never finished her bachelor’s degree (and will likely never finish her bachelor’s degree). She has her associate’s degree, has good customer service skills and is reliable. The rest of my family all have bachelor’s and so we’re all at a bit of a loss for what kind of jobs she should apply to.

    1. Lee*

      Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m asking, to a degree, below. I have my degree, but it hasn’t mattered a whit in getting any kind of professional job. I do work at a small company, where the front desk person moved from food service into that job. Maybe start with small companies? But the problem with that is the problem I have below – nobody wants to train, which means you get stuck and it isn’t just a start, even if it supposed to be just that.

    2. Retailnomore*

      I don’t have any good answers off the top of my head, but I would suggest that they check out
      Handshake.com. It’s a student centric job search portal, and they should be able to use the name of their school to register.

      I suggest suggested because it’s very easy to slice and dice the Search terms to put in AA degree and the kinds of things you might be looking for. That might give them an idea of what kind of jobs would be open to someone with an associates degree.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Handshake has the added bonus of telling you which companies frequently hire or actively recruit from your school.

    3. Scriveaaa*

      Realistically look for those companies that don’t require a degree at all. Many office jobs are restricted to a bachelors, and those that aren’t have opted to ‘tear the paper ceiling’ and hire solely based on skills.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think what the degree is in matters a whole lot. AS in business => work doing accounting-adjacent jobs like payroll, receivables, inventory management. AS in a hard science => work supporting bench scientists like managing supplies, reconfiguring and calibrating equipment, maintaining safety and environmental records.

      1. Reluctant Mezzo*

        Accounts payable for an AS in accounting. Can move up to Actual Accounting if you take the extra classes.

    5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      administrative assistants, front desk work, etc. Also, look at call center type jobs or data entry.

    6. Concerned Sister*

      I should also mention that I’ve seen temp agencies recommended before, but how do you find a reputable one? She did recently get scammed for a job (which is a whole other story) and so is a bit leery of small places.

      1. Lyudie*

        I haven’t been a contractor in a number of years and I was always in long-term ongoing contracts, but a few of the bigger companies I’ve had good experiences with are CTG and Manpower. Kelly and Monarch have also been around for years. Reaching out to recruiters at the bigger agencies might help uncover openings she hasn’t seen yet too.

      2. Annie*

        I’m not sure what Temp Agencies are reputable these days, but I recommend that. You can get into a lot of different companies and types of jobs as a temp that don’t require a bachelor’s degree, but it will give her a chance to check out different industries. That’s how I got my last job, and I was able to interview for a few different positions before getting the one I have now.

    7. Baby Yoda*

      Normally I would suggest looking at entry level mortgage banking jobs, but things are a bit tighter in my business these days. Still wouldn’t hurt to look though.

    8. pally*

      Might look into sales.

      Would your sister be willing to take some training courses – at her expense? If so, might look into Quality Assurance. Specifically auditing. Might visit ASQ.org to learn more. They have certifications in all aspects of Quality – and a couple of courses specific to auditing. Yes, the courses do cost money. But it’s not like you have to take a lot of them to learn how to audit properly.

      The thing of it is, once you learn how to audit, it’s a matter of practice. Those customer service skills also come in handy. You want to present as someone people are comfortable talking to. You ask questions, including open-ended ones, and document responses. The goal is to have tangible proof that procedures are being followed, and people are properly trained. That proof would be an audit report listing the findings.

      With good auditing skills, there are a variety of industries one can work in (biotech, food industry, electronics, automotive, aviation, communications, etc.). Anywhere they have regulations a company is required to follow. You don’t have to have a lot of knowledge in the specific industry- if one is willing to ‘learn as you go’. It’s more a matter of knowing how to communicate with people.

      1. JustMyImagination*

        Most of the ASQ certifications require years of experience before you’re eligible to sit for the exam. You will need industry-specific knowledge in the application of the regulations.

    9. Percy Weasley*

      Consider civil service: city, county, state (maybe not federal just now). They are more likely to focus on experience and transferable skills than a degree.

      1. Jaydee*

        Seconding this. They will usually be very clear in the job description what the education/experience requirements are and often give multiple options or combinations to meet them.

      2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

        Yep. Places like City Hall or an agency with a walk-in front desk need people with customer service skills. She needs to develop fundamental office software skills if she doesn’t already have those.

        A family member worked a variety of retail jobs and had one internship in an office setting. They ended up working in a medical office doing basic clerical/secretarial functions, moved up there, moved to working in a skilled nursing facility as front desk and learned medical billing coding, now is at a surgical practice as a scheduler. Lots of front-line customer service and phone skills required and I’d think retail would be good prep for that.

    10. Lifelong student*

      The answer really matters on what the associates degree is in. I became a paralegal with an associates degree. If her degree had a focus, you might get better answers by providing that.

    11. Tradd*

      Have her look at international transportation, specifically freight forwarders on the import side. It’s extremely interesting work. Many freight forwarders do not require a college degree. I did the transportation side, primarily import for nearly 20 years before I become a customs broker.

    12. PokemonGoToThePolls*

      Does she have good problem solving/tech-adjacent skills? I got out of retail by moving to an entry-level customer support position at a software company.

      I did have a bachelors degree but they cared way more about my retail experience and that I could write a decent email response to a question.

    13. MissGirl*

      If she’s personable and likes working with people, check out sales or customer experience. My nephew doesn’t have a degree. He got a sales job at a tech startup. That was enough to get some experience so when that company tanked, he was able to get a job at a different company as their first salesperson. Now he’s building a team.

    14. spcepickle*

      Look at state / county / city government jobs. Depending on where you are they might be hard at this exact moment with the US budget nonsense, but I work for state government and once you get in it is the easier place I have worked to get really good promotions without a college degree. We hire admin people, finance people, and clerks all with no bachelors degree requirements. I recently moved my secretary to our engineering track and she has no background in engineering, just a really good head and lots of interest in learning.
      Also check out all the blue collar jobs, my state is still hiring maintenance workers even with our hiring freeze, it is a few years of really bad schedules (working lots of nights and swing shifts) but it comes with good benefits, guaranteed 40 hours, lots of overtime, and a very strong chance to promote in a few years, often to a supervisor roll.
      My work also depends on union trade jobs and the apprenticeship halls are empty! Does she have any interest in plumbing, welding, electricity, or other trade. This is the moment to get into all of them and it is a great deal – they pay you while you get the training, there is tons of room for advancement, and she will quickly out earn all of us with degrees.

    15. Head Sheep Counter*

      Project management and program management can be fields that are flexible and need experience more than degrees.

      I do project controls (schedules and budgets on large scale projects with heavy reporting and analysis requirements). I make six figures and have no degree. I did have my PMP at one point but it has lapsed as I took a program manager detour and couldn’t maintain the credits.

      Front office can be flexible but I’ve seen degree requirements on some very silly positions (receptionist??? really?) so its company dependent and can be disheartening.

      FWIW I think things are starting to change as the whiplash from requiring degrees for everything which resulted in extreme student debt is wafting through the working world.

      If she’s interested in a trade (I wish I had gone this route back in the day) there are some great programs out there in everything from construction, welding, chip manufacturing to health care.

    16. night cheese*

      I’m in higher ed, and a lot of the administrative/office manager type positions list associates degree as a preferred qualification.

    17. Banana Pyjamas*

      I have seen location matters more than anything. I relocated in 2016 because Michiana had lower education requirements than Chicagoland. At that time there were also a lot of jobs with lower education requirements in Salt Lake City. Now obviously I’m not saying to move to either of those places, but your sister may need to make a decision. She may need to consider whether she wants to continue her education to get a job in the local market or whether she wants to move to find a job at her current education level.

    18. Rex Libris*

      Public libraries often have a preference for people with retail experience for various classified staff jobs (meaning jobs that don’t require a master’s degree.) Library jobs tend to post on job boards maintained by state library associations, state government library departments, and regional consortia, which you can find with a bit of online searching.

    19. AnotherOne*

      I imagine it depends a lot on the company. Early in my career, so probably 15 years, I worked as an admin at a law firm. Most of the admins had bachelor degrees, but the person who trained me to do specialized work was maybe a couple of years older than me and only part way thru her bachelor’s degree.

      And I agree- temp agencies are always a good option. I heard good things about Kelly. I worked with a small specialized one for some jobs after college to get placed in law firms. (So if your sister has an interest in any industries and you know anyone in those industries, you could always ask them if they are willing to find out what temp agencies their companies use.)

      Cuz sometimes a great way to get a job can be starting a temp (just temp) and being a great employee.

      1. Percy Weasley*

        Back in the day I always had good luck w/ Kelly Services. One assignment led to a “real” job with a company I stayed with for 8 years.

    20. Mad Scientist*

      Not exactly an office job, but I know folks with associates degrees (or no college at all) who went into disability support types of roles, e.g. “autism support coach” for either kids or adults. It’s hard work but seems very rewarding!

    21. Kay*

      Escrow/title assistant, real estate/mortgage/financial brokerages as office admin, staff for small businesses – basically lots of smaller companies, even lots of the larger companies for admin jobs won’t, especially for front desk type stuff. Most like experience but if she can write a good cover letter highlighting her customer service skills and willingness to learn there is somebody who wants to hire her. She should brush up on office programs, perhaps some basic marketing skills – read lots of job descriptions and see what fits.

  10. Autumn leaves*

    I’m Gen X. It was drilled into me that there should not be one mistake on a resume. That the resume should be flawless. I realize things have changed but we recently received a resume with the words ” references furnaced upon request”
    The role doesn’t require writing skills but it does require attention to detail.
    The person has a masters of science in Business administration.
    This error bugs me but should it?

    1. KayDeeAye*

      Should it bug you? Absolutely. It would definitely bug me. I’m not sure it means you should eliminate this person from consideration just on that basis, though. Are there other, more job-relevant ways you can find out how much attention to detail someone has? Because anyone – literally ANYone – can make an error, even on a resume.

      1. Slothy*

        Sure, anyone can make an error. But they made a second one by not having anyone read it over. Mistakes happen all the time, but what is the person doing to prevent them? In the case of their resume, seemingly nothing. And that’s what they are choosing to show the world.

    2. cat herder*

      English major bias here, but yes, that should bug you. This person has a masters degree, they’re well beyond the valid excuse of being green/inexperienced. I’m with you that resumes should be ultra-polished, and the writer shouldn’t simply rely on spell check (because this is what happens when you do).

    4. c*

      I’m often inclined to be lenient on these things … and time and time again, it ends up that the person really does struggle with spelling, writing skills, and/or attention to detail. If the rest of the resume is flawless and the person is otherwise a great fit, that’s one thing. But if you have other candidates to consider, I would not discount this error as a one-off. If you *don’t* have a strong pool, it may be a good idea to ask references specifically about this skill set.

    5. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      I think it depends on the role. Attention to detail of what? Doesn’t sound like spelling since writing is not involved. I understand being bugged by it, but at the same time, how relevant is it to the role?

      If they’re otherwise a great candidate, I’d probably proceed, but with a plan to focus on attention to detail related to the job functions in the interview.

    6. Fluffy Fish*

      It wouldn’t bother me.

      A resume riddled with errors, for most white-collar jobs? Sure.

      One? Nah. It’s way too easy for our brains to see what’s supposed to be there instead of what is. And because it’s not a misspelled word, it’s an actual kinda close word, its even harder to catch.

      1. Annika Hansen*

        I feel the same way. I wouldn’t let one misused word get in the way of an otherwise good candidate.

    7. Friday Person*

      I don’t think it’s disqualifying, although it’s fine to be privately irritated.

      (“furnaced upon request” is also kind of an unintentionally great euphemism for “fired”)

      1. Lyudie*

        This is where I land too (former writer/editor). I’d notice it and probably think they should look more closely, but it’s also something that spellcheck would probably not catch so I wouldn’t put too much weight on it.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          Eye have a spelling checker
          It came with my pea sea
          It plain lee marks for my revue
          Miss steaks eye cannot sea…

          1. Lyudie*

            Ha! Exactly :-)

            Someone said it does indeed pass Word’s spellchecker, so unless this was a writing position or something else where you’d want a very detail oriented person, I’d let it pass. Maybe point it out to them for the future.

      2. Quinalla*

        Same, if it is one error, I will let it go. We all make an occasional error. If there are multiple errors then yes, that’s a true strike against someone especially in a detail oriented job.

    8. sagewhiz*

      Woah, that would phase me to, as I’d then wonder about there intensive purposes.

      (Sorry, couldn’t resist :-)

    9. cactus lady*

      This used to bug me A LOT but less these days. Autocorrect is a nightmare sometimes – I will correct it and it will repeatedly change a word to something I don’t want it to be. If it’s only once, I would let it go. If there are a ton of errors, that would be a red flag.

    10. I edit everything*

      “I really don’t like this person you listed as a reference. Please toss them in the fiery furnace.”

      1. Autumn leaves*

        fiery furnace. Everyone he interviewed with seemed to like him but they did say he was green. It’s a production manager role and if things fall through the cracks, I’ll be the one that hears all the complaints.

        I already deal with two people who are supposed to be well organized and I’m fairly certain have undiagnosed ADHD. It makes my job harder to chase after people for information or clarification so I’m trying to protect myself.

      2. Texan in Exile*

        Nebuchadnezzar sighed. Why oh why oh why was it so darn hard to find good employees anymore? In his day, everyone bowed to his image.

        Kids today, he thought as he shook his head. Kids today.

    11. juliebulie*

      To my surprise, Word’s spellchecker doesn’t flag “furnaced.” I guess I just learned a new word I don’t have any use for.

      On the one hand, anyone can make a mistake like that. On the other hand, I suspect that a detail-oriented person who checked their work (or gave it to someone else to check, or tried reading it out loud) would see it right away. So yes, it would bug me that they hadn’t checked their work. That’s an odd way to demonstrate being detail-oriented. Especially for something as important as a resume.

    12. cathy*

      It would bother me a lot. If I were hiring someone who needed to do a lot of writing it would be a fatal error. (No one is perfect, but everyone should be able to find a proof reader.)

    14. Recovering Grammar Corrector*

      Mistakes like that used to bother me a lot….until I recognized that I make mistakes, too, and hope for grace each time. I’d err on the side of grace for small, one-off mistakes like a typo. It’s the human thing to do. You also don’t want to eliminate someone who may have a good reason for making an error like that — English Language Learner, reading disability, dealing with a lot at home and work, tired eyes from hundreds of job application sites, etc.

      I’d be more concerneed that the applicant has an MBA and doesn’t realize that no one puts “References available upon request”-kinds of lines on their resumes anymore….

    15. Sherm*

      I understand why it would be hard to forget, but the fact that we get the message that resumes should be perfect means that resumes aren’t necessarily an ultra-reliable guide on which candidate is the most detailed-oriented — because candidates often use resume services, computer checks, and a friend or relative to take a look. The person with the most flawless resume may have had a better resume service, a more accurate computer, or a particularly eagle-eyed friend/relative.

    16. nekosan*

      That just reminds me of the person who listed themselves as being “delait oriented”. Oof.

    17. Teacher Lady*

      This would also bug me. If the rest of the person’s experience was a good fit, it wouldn’t be enough for me to throw the resume out entirely, but I’d definitely be alert for other things in the application materials or the interview that would point to a lack of attention to detail. (It would also depend on the role, to some extent – I’m less inclined to be generous about things like attention to detail in written materials when we’re hiring special educators, since they have to do a lot of writing that is part of legal processes [i.e. IEPs and related reports]. If a general educator’s lesson plan is full of typos, that’s not ideal, but that’s not the sort of thing that brings lawyers knocking on our doors. In both cases, these jobs are filled by humans, and even very detail-oriented humans sometimes make typos.)

    18. Rex Libris*

      It would bug me, especially on the attention to detail issue.

      I recently passed on a resume because they misspelled the name of the company they were currently working for, so maybe it’s not that level of a mistake, but still.

    19. Samwise*

      Eh. Is that the only error? It’s one that wouldn’t be picked up by spell check. I find that I often don’t see errors in my own writing, especially something like a resume where I’ve looked at so many times.

      Should the person have asked someone to proof it for them? Sure. But I’m still not going to dump a candidate over a single error. Attention to detail does not mean never makes an error. Unless it’s for a job where excruciating exactitude is necessary and/or a matter of life and death (air traffic controller, brain surgeon…), a mistake like this tells you almost nothing about the person’s suitability for the job.

      For what it’s worth, I have a BA, MA, and PhD in English, taught college-level writing for many years, notice every error, and twitch when people misuse less/fewer, who/whom, lay/lie.

    20. There Will Be Cats*

      If I got a lot of good applications and looking to trim down to a reasonable number of interviews, yes, this would give me a reason to put this on the B list. If I have fewer good applications, and this one was otherwise good enough to interview, I wouldn’t let that mustake stop me.

    21. Tau*

      The thing about spelling errors is that how much sloppiness/lack of attention is required for them differs by person.

      Like, a few jobs back I had a fantastic coworker, great at his job, who I did notice tended to have a lot of typos in written communication. At one point, I was in a meeting with him where he was sharing his screen and live typing some notes. He’d write a word, spellcheck would underline it red. He’d stare at it in puzzlement, try adding a letter here, try removing a letter there, until finally the red squiggle went away or he gave up because it was taking too long. I’d be sitting there with the typo and correct spelling being immediately obvious to me wondering if it would be awkward to spell it out for him. It really drove home that my brain and his worked differently to the point where we were clearly not seeing the same thing when we looked at written text, and I have been much less judgemental about spelling mistakes ever since.

    22. Sara K*

      It would definitely bug me too but I tend to give people a pass on one or two errors particularly like this one which would have passed a routine spell check. If I get an application for a role requiring attention to detail and it has multiple errors then yeah I will put it in the ‘no’ pile. If I were to go forward with the applicant I might make a note to hone in on questions about process for error checking and quality control.

    23. Chauncy Gardener*

      Yep. It should bug you. I hire accountants and HR people. They all need attention to detail and they need to be able to write a coherent email that I don’t have to completely rework.
      That resume would go in the “no”pile.

  11. nonprofit rant*

    More a vent than anything, but I’m just so frustrated – classic case of a nonprofit board/leadership ignoring practical/ethical concerns from the actual service providers in favor of pleasing donors.

    I’m at a volunteer medical and dental clinic targeting underserved patients. Our model works great most of the time, but there are some things we just can’t safely or ethically manage. Among those is specialty care for minors. We can do basic stuff like annual well child visits and mild cold/flu, but the moment a child needs anything more complicated than that, they’re out of our scope. Our partners do not give us access to those referrals, and we don’t have the hours or the staff to manage any follow-up resulting from those referrals even if we could get them. At that point, we try to help them transfer to a local pediatric health system where they can qualify for free care through the charity care program. They need to establish with a PCP in that system, who can then manage the necessary referrals.

    We explain all of this at the time of enrollment, but most parents still opt to bring their kids here instead of going directly to the other health system. We have ample staff and volunteers who speak their language, and we generally do a lot of hand holding so everything is super easy and seamless. The other system involves a lot more friction, especially considering the language barrier.

    So when we suddenly tell a parent that we can’t see their child any more, and that they need to start a difficult, high-friction transition process at the *exact moment* that their child starts exhibiting concerning symptoms needing timely care, they’re not thrilled about it. There is often a period of denial/disbelief (we must just not want to treat their child, etc), and they tend to drag their feet on the transition – in part because they don’t want to leave, but also because the transition process is really hard!!

    I’m the staff member who would be facilitating these transitions. In addition to the language barrier, our patient population has lots of other special circumstances that make the registration/application process different from what the representatives at the other system are used to. If I’m not there to phrase things in exactly the right way, the parents tend to reach dead ends or get transferred to the wrong department. Even with me there, it tends to take hours just to do the initial registration.

    In the past, I would just have the parents come into my office so we could hammer the whole thing out together. But that was when there were only one or two transitions a year. I currently have seven pending transitions. I’m the only employee in my department, and have plenty of other duties – I can be referred any of our thousands of patients at any moment, for any number of reasons. It’s not mathematically possible for me to give all of these families the level of support they need without shortchanging other patients.

    My supervisor and I are trying to come up with ways to make it easier for parents to own more of the process, but a lot of that is out of our control. I’ve tried creating instruction sheets, but because there are so many places where things can get derailed, I have to add all of those contingencies (phrase x exactly like this; if they try to transfer you to y, do z) so they don’t reach a dead end and boomerang back onto my to-do list. That makes the document pretty overwhelming to read, so of course no one reads it.

    In the meantime, these kids are stuck waiting for care and their parents are frantic with worry. A committee that I’m on met this week, and this issue came up. We pretty much unanimously agreed that the sole ethical option is to only see kids for dental care and not take any more pediatric medical patients. But we’ve proposed that before, and it’s been shot down by our president and board every single time. Donors love to see kids getting care, and in our fundraising we make a big deal about “treating the whole family.” Except we can’t actually do that!!

    Apparently, the board’s answer is always “so get more pediatricians,” but there’d be nothing for most of those pediatricians to do 99% of the time – not many kids qualify for our services to begin with, and those that do mostly just come in for their annual check-up. But the few cases where they need more are an absolute nightmare for everyone involved. Virtually all of us boots-on-the-ground staff agree that we’re doing a disservice by agreeing to see children medically, when we could send them directly to the other health system and make sure they get through all the red tape BEFORE things get urgent.

    I understand that we need to attract donors, but at a medical organization it’s just not okay to put that above our ethical obligations. What I don’t understand is why providing kids with dental care is apparently not good enough for the donors. In the meantime, the brunt of this falls on me. I’m pissed.

    1. off the top of my head..*

      Can some sort of partnership be established with the other medical system? Not financial, but more of a recognition your group will send kids to them and to look out for your referrals because you are partners in care? Maybe someone on the board can spearhead this effort?

      1. nonprofit rant*

        I’ve reached out to them to ask exactly this, and have a meeting with them next week. But essentially I’m asking them to create a pipeline for a patient population that will not bring in any revenue, so I’m trying to temper expectations.

        1. Ellabee*

          Who fundraises for the pediatric medical system you work with? Do they have a foundation, and if so, can you get connected to the team that pitches potential donors? Given that these kids’ care needs to be donor-funded, that is likely a good avenue to pursue in tandem with talking to reps from the medical system itself.

    2. Kay*

      Yikes! This sounds very frustrating. Is there any way for you to go halfway, and have the families registered in both systems? That way there’s not as much chaos at the exact moment they should be focused on their sick kid. Or would it be possible to hire someone to take some other tasks off your plate? Is the increase in numbers likely to be permanent, or is there an end in sight?

      1. nonprofit rant*

        We have a policy that patients can’t enroll with us if they’re enrolled somewhere else, both because of safety/continuity of care (avoiding unintended drug interactions, etc) and because we’re really supposed to be a last resort. If someone has access to care through another avenue it’s almost always better to go through that avenue, even if it doesn’t seem that way due to the amount of hand holding we do.

        I’ve been asking for paid help for a while, but I’ve honestly been kind of underwater mental health-wise for a while and my numbers have been stagnating at a rather unimpressive level. My supervisor has been advocating for me, but it’s hard to justify the expense to the board. It’s frustrating, because it’s a vicious cycle: lack of support > overwhelming workload > feeling of futility/paralysis > mediocre numbers > lack of support. I’m trying to get out, both for my mental health and because I’m obviously just not the right person for a job with this level of pressure.

    3. Pocket Mouse*

      That’s tough. Can you shuffle some of your other responsibilities to make room for these transitions in the short term, or ask the local pediatric health system for someone to help your patients navigate registration in the long term? Ideally both.

      1. nonprofit rant*

        I have a meeting scheduled with the other system for next week, but am trying not to get my hopes up too much. I’m doing my best to manage my workload in a way that allows me to provide at least some support, but unfortunately we’re in the US and serving mostly immigrants. The number of referrals is only going to increase, even as the systems I rely on to do my job get hacked up with a chainsaw. I’m trying to get out, but I don’t feel great about it.

    4. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      While hiring more pediatricians would not help here, would you be able to push to hire another *you*?

      1. nonprofit rant*

        I wish – see my reply to Kay above. I’m in this dysfunctional cycle where the extent of my workload makes me feel paralyzed and I ultimately get less done, which leads to lower numbers, which on paper suggest that the level of need doesn’t justify getting me help. I’ve always been more productive when I had volunteers or interns sharing the load, but 1) it’s hard to find people with the right skills, since anyone with those skills can get paid for them somewhere else and 2) they tend to be short-term; once I get them trained up, it’s time for them to leave.

    5. moql*

      If they’re willing to pay a pediatrician, can that money instead go to the transition of care? Like, a part time social worker who transitions any families with children before they need medical care so they’re already in that system? Pay a translator service to sit with the families on the phone (there are some relay services that can do this on call)? Taxi from your building to theirs to help with physical access if transport is a barrier? Overtime pay for you, if you’re really the only one who can do this? Can a part time admin take some of your lower level work off your plate?

      Or even money for cash payments at private practices? A full time doctor has got to be more expensive than just paying out of pocket for a few procedures, even if those are ones that could be done for free if the kids were able to get in at the other program.

      Hard to say without knowing what sort of medical care is needed, but is this the sort of thing a doctor might be able to volunteer their time doing? I work with a small pet-related charity and we have a vet who gives free time as needed as long as the charity covers any supplies used. He also will give a quick second opinion sometimes, which can be very useful for having a professional demystify things for non-experts.

      This sounds very frustrating for you and I am sorry you are feeling overwhelmed!

      1. moql*

        Just saw your response, and another thought – is this something a volunteer could help with? Even if they don’t have your expertise it can be useful to have an assertive strong English speaker who can sit with them on the phone call and deal with dead ends and not accept being fobbed off.

        I worked with a refugee group once where volunteers would go with new refugees to various offices to get them set up with services and walk them through the process (think SS office, registering for school, etc.). Volunteers had no training beyond being familiar with how US government offices worked in general, but that was very useful for the new-to-the-US population. The one time I helped I was given the phone number of a translator service to use if needed, but I didn’t end up using it because my usefulness was much more in being an English speaking citizen who office staff couldn’t ignore or send in a loop from office to office to office.

      2. AnotherOne*

        or depending on what your job is (for example if you are a social worker) could an option being your office bringing on a grad student for placement for a year (or even just a semester.)

        yes, you’d lose time training someone every time but if you lost 20 hours of training and 4 hours a week to supervision, and got say 20 hours of week of decent work out of the person that might be a decent trade off.

        1. nonprofit rant*

          I reach out to the local schools every year to let them know we’ll take an intern, but they have to be bilingual in order to get anything out of the placement or help us in a meaningful way. That dramatically reduces the pool. Of the bilingual candidates who are left, most are not interested in this kind of placement. And as you said, there’s a pretty significant trade-off of time spent training vs time I actually get back. By the time they’re trained up to a level where that trade off starts to be worth it, the placement is over. It’s still better than nothing, if only because it shows our leadership that I’m trying every possible “free” option and still struggling.

    6. Anon understanding this is rough*

      I’m so sorry this all falls to you. I’m in a federal position with much the same concerns – we can’t be the safety net we wish we could be, because the services that we need to function as a true safety net for pediatric patients aren’t something we can obtain on a regular basis.

      I’m just brainstorming, and may be totally off-base missing context about your situation, re: “get more pediatricians” – would your organization be able to contract with any pediatric fellowship programs at academic institutions nearby for contract hours? Maybe to develop a liaison between programs based at the medical center you referred to (to improve communication between programs more directly), or to contract pediatric specialists on an hourly rate basis when you need them? I mention academic medical centers for their resident or fellowship physicians since the contact hours with a unique population may be valuable to the program itself as well as their individual trainees.

      1. Nightengale*

        As someone in a somewhat analogous situation – not with a specific underserved immigrant/refugee population but with the limits of pediatric care outside pediatric settings – the problem is that a lot of the care sick kids need doesn’t JUST need a pediatrician or even a pediatric specialist.

        I work for a reasonable sized health system that has general pediatricians but few specialty ones. (I’m one of the specialty ones.) Say a kid has a significant gastroenterology problem. They often don’t just need to be seen by a pediatrician or a pediatric gastroenterologist. They often need procedures, which means they need to be seen somewhere that has pediatric nurses and pediatric anesthetists and pediatric sized equipment and a pediatric appropriate recovery area. Rinse and repeat with cardiology, pulmonology, endocrinology, neurology. . .

        OP – no ideas on your problem with the donors, but does the pediatric-friendly site have anything like a “care navigator” program that can be a single point of contact warm handoff from you to that system?

        1. nonprofit rant*

          Yes, it’s somewhat similar to your situation – even if we could get them to the specialists, we just don’t have the resources or the capacity to manage all the follow-up that would result, and we couldn’t realistically scale up to get those resources. I have reached out to the “physician liaison” for our area, and she put me in contact with someone I’ll be meeting with virtually this Wednesday. Fingers crossed.

  12. Lee*

    A few days ago there was a LOT of discussion about Ivy League graduates vs. state school/other schools’ graduates. From what I read of that discussion, I received that impression that a lot of people think that being open to other, less-selective, schools in hiring for positions has value and that certain skills can be trained for.

    So, as a graduate of a state school, is that true only in entry-level jobs? Do people who hire look for this in people who aren’t just graduating? I’ve been looking, on and off, for most of my “career” for a place that would train me to do something else besides customer service and admin stuff. I don’t have a lot of hard skills, and I have never found any place that was willing to look past that. Where/how do I look for those companies? I graduated into a recession and from the start, took what I could get for income. Which leaves me with, at least on the surface, a pretty lousy resume. And I can’t get seem to get past that. I see a ton of jobs online that I think I could do – with training. But as far as I can tell, nobody is willing to do that any longer.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I do think that specific discussion was pretty focused on entry level new grads, but I’ll let others comment on the ways you might be able to get up from your current resume!

    2. CTT*

      I think the Ivy vs state school debate comes into play when someone doesn’t have any work experience, so school is all the employer has to go on (and then the implicit and/or explicit biases that go with that). Seconding Sloanitca that I bet some people have good resume advice!

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Agree with this. My bachelor’s is from a school that is considered Ivy-adjacent. It caught the eye of the person who hired me for my first job out of college. Then I went to grad school, which opened an entry-level door for me. Since then, no one cares (it’s been a little over 20 years). Of my colleagues I’m the only one who went to an “elite” school and I’m pretty sure no one’s looking at the education section of my resume anymore.

        I will say that I think the push to hire from “elite” schools is totally overblown and much less relevant than it used to be. There are brilliant people and dumbasses who have all kinds of levels and types of education.

    3. Noriarty*

      This answer is heavily filtered for a past experience I had, so of it’s not applicable to you I apologize. A good workplace will allocate some time to training you, yes. But they will want to train you in things specific to their company: specific procedures, software, learning the background on people and projects. You need to demonstrate that a) you are capable of absorbing training on things like this on a reasonable timeframe and b) that you bring basic knowledge and workplace norms, even if you don’t know internal company processes. That could be communicating about your workload, being able to complete multi step tasks without having your hand held each step of the way, managing your time, etiquette of scheduling meetings, retaining information that is given to you, attempting to solve a problem on your own and reaching out if you can’t, tracking deadlines. This list is probably different for every job, but there are certain concepts that you will be expected to know, and you shouldn’t expect the company to train you from total basics.

    4. Ex-admin*

      I’ve experienced this myself– graduated into a recession and was only able to get admin work. In my personal experience, the school you graduate from is less the problem after that first job, but it’s that getting out of admin work once you’ve started it is VERY DIFFICULT. It’s even more difficult if you’re trying to make the jump from admin work straight into a new company doing something else.

      In my experience (so take with a grain of salt, but I’ve seen lots of people do this at my org), you’re better off taking an admin role within an org that has other roles that you could do/are interested in, and ensuring when you interview that there is an eventual path to transition internally. Some places/roles that are hiring for admin are specifically trying to screen this out– they want people who want to be content in this admin role forever so they don’t have to replace you. But you can definitely find ones that are supportive of moving good people into other areas of the business eventually (don’t be afraid to ask about potential/expected timelines in interviews– you want to make sure you’re all on the same page and you aren’t thinking you could transition in a year, while they’re thinking five years at best). You then basically just need to be patient, incredibly good at your job, proactive about learning/taking on non admin responsibilities when the occasion arises, and invest heavily in building relationships/getting mentors etc. All of that said, it’s still really challenging and I wish you luck in finding your opportunity!

    5. Quinine..I need quinine*

      I’m in tech sales – your university (or lack thereof) makes no difference to me at least when hiring. You could have gone to Harvard, Florida State, or U of Phoenix and it’s not as important as what you’ve done lately.

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        I’m in (technical) management consulting. My BS in computer engineering from a small school has not matterred at all after two years into my varied career. I’m well respected and compensated.
        Nowadays, we hire mostly people with a Master’s and a few year’s experience in the industry. Our last hire had interned with my team two years ago and we made damn sure to have a job for them once they completed their MSc – best intern we ever had and a great fit.
        Internships are great to build a reputation and learn the basics!

    6. Saturday*

      I’ve seen employers (especially in smaller offices) willing to let people branch out and take on other responsibilities that require some training. And eventually that can lead to a title change.

      I think it’s harder to enter an organization looking for that because employers are likely going to hire the person who already has related experience if they can find them. And it’s harder to see if someone has the skills needed for the other responsibilities if they haven’t already observed their other work.

    7. Kay*

      I think this depends a lot on what you want to do, where you are located, what you are willing to deal with and how long you are willing to take to get there.

      I think there are lots of sectors with aging knowledge bases – think insurance, escrow/title, legal niches and some of the adjacent needs, basically lots of the boring stuff you don’t always hear about. Does anyone know much about what an underwriter does, how policies are written, what entitlements are? There is a massive shortage in certain sectors because these jobs aren’t glamorous, they aren’t well known, they take years of knowledge to understand, and most people don’t actually want to do them. For a person willing to take a not fantastic salary and stay for a while, after 5+ years (if you are actually good at what you do of course) you can move into easily 6 figure ranges.

      The best way to get into these kinds of jobs is your network, unfortunately. After that, cover letters. I know plenty of people who would be willing to train someone, but identifying who might be worthwhile to invest in is harder when just looking at a stack of resumes. I also get that writing a cover letter when you don’t know the industry is hard.

    8. RagingADHD*

      I went to a top-10 but not Ivy school, and that has been helpful to me in getting interviews when I had a spotty work history.

      However, throughout my working life, nearly all of my bosses and grand bosses went to state schools.

      I think having an admin and customer service track record is harder to break out of, regardless of school. I think the best tracks to potentially move into from admin would be HR, operations, or project management, because there are some transferrable skills.

      You’ll probably need to do some studying on your own as well as look for opportunities to take on related responsibilities (and / or play up related experiences and accomplishments in your bullet points on your resume).

  13. Nervous Nellie*

    Hi All! I’m having a moment of panic. I’ve been laid off from my current job, but I saw it coming and have been job hunting for a while now. Yesterday, I got a verbal offer for a job that would be a big step in pay and responsibility. My moment of anxiety is that I’ve not been super clear about being laid off. When I was first interviewing, I told the future employer that I would need to give two weeks’ notice. Since the first interview, when that was discussed, I was laid off. I had the verbal offer yesterday, and I said that I wanted to start on 4/28/2025, and that, because of a reduction in force, I didn’t have to give two weeks’ notice anymore. We agreed on a May 5 start date, but then I panicked this morning and told the hiring manager that, due to the reduction in force, if necessary, I could start in the middle of next week or May 5, whatever is more convenient for them. Did I mess up here? They told me the written offer would come Monday or Tuesday, and I’m worried they will find out that I’ve not been clear about my status and that they will pull the offer, or worse.

    1. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      No. You have literally nothing to worry about, and I cannot wrap my mind around what you are panicking over. I’ve reread this a couple of times and I literally do not understand what you think you’ve been unclear about. Take a breath, go outside.

    2. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Take a deep breath, you haven’t torpedoed the offer. Just wait for them now. Remember, it’s Friday, its Easter weekend and that means a fair number of places are closed/people taking time off work/etc.

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        I’m just worried that if they call to verify employment dates, they will find out my last day was March 28th, and my last paycheck was 4/11.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          And? That’s really not a big deal. You got laid off but you were already in the process of interviewing with this company, right? It happens all the time– you saw the writing on the wall and lucky you, you planned ahead.

          Also, there is nothing wrong with starting on May 5th, lay off or no. You are allowed to take some time off between jobs. If you would prefer the paycheck, then fine, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a late April offer and an early May start.

        2. HA2*

          Unless you gave them specific employment dates that contradict that, there’s nothing to worry about! “Last paycheck 4/11” absolutely covers the case where your resume said you were currently employed, so they won’t think you were dishonest or anything.

        3. goddessoftransitory*

          But your last paycheck would have a later date anyway, right? Because of when it was issued? And I doubt your former job is going to tell them the date on that in any case!

    3. Pink Flamingo*

      You told them there was a reduction in force – twice, if I am reading this correctly? – at your previous company that impacted your availability. This sounds to me like you were clear about your status, even if you didn’t explicitly tell them you were laid off. It doesn’t sound like you’ve mislead them in any way.

    4. GirlieePop*

      I’m not a hiring manager, but if someone said “Because of a reduction in force, I don’t have to give a two weeks’ notice anymore” or “Because of a reduction in force I can start in the middle of next week” I would assume they had been laid off. That seems pretty clear to me!

      1. Jaydee*

        Same. That seemed like essentially another way of saying “I was laid off and can start sooner if you want.”

        Also, some employers have specific schedules and timeframes for onboarding, so “I could start next Wednesday if you want” might be met with “Actually we start all new hires on the first day of a pay period, so you can either start April 21st or May 5th. But our HR person is on vacation until the 23rd so…..May 5th it is.”

    5. MsM*

      Breathe. And stick with the May 5 start date, assuming they don’t tell you they want you earlier now that you’ve thrown it out as an option. You were laid off, not fired. And the new job’s not going to be mad about you not having any loose ends to tie up.

    7. Quinine..I need quinine*

      I’m also not sure what the exact concern is, but it sounds like you are free to start on whenever date you and the new employer agree on…so all good?

    8. goddessoftransitory*

      No, you’re fine! It would be different if the opposite were true, and you told them you couldn’t start until two weeks AFTER the date you discussed, or something like that. But being free sooner is a good thing!

    9. Jess*

      You haven’t done anything wrong. You hadn’t been off but were expecting this when you were interviewed. Then the layoff happened and you let them know this and thus can start earlier. They can either agree to an earlier start date of your suggestion, suggest their own or stick with the original date.
      Best of luck with your new job!

  14. FricketyFrack*

    I could use some advice on attending a work training. I started a three year program last year that involves a weeklong training in another city once a year, and at the end results in professional certification. I fully intended to finish the three years, but now my mom and I are planning on moving to Spain, ideally by early next year, so I’m really debating whether I should attend this year.

    Pros:
    *If our plans somehow change (unlikely), I’ll still be on track for the usual timeline.
    *I don’t necessarily want my bosses to see me as having one foot out the door, though they are aware that we’re at least considering the move.

    Cons:
    *It costs my employer about $2k and me at least $150-200 out of pocket to attend (because the included meals are never actually vegan-friendly and with full day sessions, I don’t have time to cook). This isn’t a massive expense, but we are a mid-sized municipal government, so I’m conscious of spending taxpayer money for something very likely to be useless.
    *I won’t be able to work in Spain for at least 5 years, and the things I’d be learning aren’t transferable to another country.
    *Honestly, last year just kind of sucked – it was miserably cold to the point that we were all bringing blankets down from our rooms and some of the attendees were there to party and were so loud that I got almost no sleep. Not looking forward to it.

    It’s not until July and registration isn’t open yet, so I do have some time, but I’m just struggling with whether to go at all, and if not, how to approach it so my employer knows I’m still committed to my job as long as I’m here.

      1. FricketyFrack*

        Normally, I’d agree, but this is very specific to municipal government and if I move, I will literally never work in that field again. You can’t even get government jobs in Spain without being a citizen (which would be 10 years out) and I’d basically be retirement age by that point.

        1. Moo*

          If registration isn’t open yet, then I’d leave it until you actually have to make a decision. I presume as time goes on your plans may start to look more or less solid and that would give you new information on whether it’s worth going on the training.

          It also sounds like you don’t want to do it, which is also a reason too!

    2. Samwise*

      Go. You have no idea what will happen in the future, be it next week or five years from now.

    3. Kay*

      There are many things that can happen between now and next year, trust me. Especially when talking about immigration issues and oversees relocations. Take the course.

    4. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      You *could* let them know that the training tucked (you should have done that right away) so they may decide to cancel if it’s not useful/value for money enough. You can express that you’d be open ro cancel or find another training provider.
      I’d still do it anyway but that’s me.
      How do you intend to live in Spain? COL is a bit lower than in the US in my experience, depending on the region.

  15. Reese*

    When am I obligated to leave ratings/reviews for my colleague?

    I have to submit tickets to one of our vendors for any issues. The tickets are supposed to be resolved within 2-business days. We have a care coordinator to contact for urgent tickets, if a ticket is sitting a few days with no response, or if I have to keep submitting tickets about the same issue.

    Our care coordinator always e-mails me and asks me to leave her a review/rating (on a scale of 1-5) for “the service she provided.” It only takes a minute or two to leave a rating, but it’s starting to get annoying. I’m wondering if I really need to keep leaving her 5-star ratings just for doing her seemingly easy job (she reaches out to the local branch and gets a response from them), and if I should be leaving ratings at all when I have to contact her several times (sometimes over a few days) to get a resolution. Sometimes my initial feeling is that I should leave a negative rating/feedback, but I don’t because I don’t know if she could she find out. If she wasn’t specifically asking me to leave feedback, I wouldn’t leave feedback at all unless she was particularly helpful with something.

    Do you guys frequently get asked to rate/review someone’s “service”? How would you handle doing/not doing the ratings?

    1. off the top of my head*

      I submit reviews when the problem (ticket) is resolved. If it takes 1 ticket, that’s 1 review. if it takes 5 tickets, it’s 1 review with a more detailed explanation that it took 5 tickets to resolve.

    2. cncx*

      I do the ratings and leave five stars because the colleagues I get asked to rate are colleagues I need favors from and want to stay in their good graces. If they mess up and provide poor service that will come out in the wash. The political repercussions of me leaving a bad review are not worth it. I will forget one every now and then but if I review, it’s five stars all the way.

    3. Nightengale*

      We am asked to rate IT when they close a ticket. Sadly I generally give them very low ratings. They are extremely slow to respond (weeks before even a response for a laptop with a broken key and several more weeks and a request for escalation before the new laptop did all the things it needed for my job) and generally don’t read the full ticket of description of the issue and best contact method.

    4. Clisby*

      Yes, from the cleaning service that comes every 2 weeks. I don’t leave reviews, although I likely would if the cleaner did something above and beyond on that trip. If I had a complaint, I’d send an email. If I was constantly dissatisfied with them, I’d fire them and get a new service.

  16. Just a Pile of Oranges*

    After four or five sleepless nights and dozens of panic attacks, I quit on Wednesday. My boss was so nice about it that I feel even more guilty, but I’m a lot less anxious. You see, I learned something important that Saturday.

    The head of HR, who has been sending me passive aggressive emails sniping at me and preventing me from effectively doing some important parts of my job because I won’t compromise my ethics agreement…

    Is the CEO’s older sister.

    I’ll never be free of her incessant BS, and there will be no recourse to get her off my back. I’ll eventually be in exactly the same position as my last job. Also head of IT is her son, and my boss is married to a cousin (also in HR). It’s all family all the way across. Awful.

    My new job starts May 5. They require a full in-depth background check and a credit check, which is not something I’ve ever been asked to do. I also had to sign some pretty strict “proper use of company property” agreements and intellectual property agreements and I don’t know is that normal? I’ve only ever worked for these toxic family environments when I think about it.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Company property & IP agreements are typical. There might be landmines in the IP agreement – if something really bothers you, you might find a young labor or contracts lawyer who could spend an hour looking them over for a few hundred dollars.

    3. JHunz*

      IP agreements are a pretty standard thing to have to sign when signing onto most bigger companies (and even some of the smaller ones). There are some positions where it is really important to understand the extent to which they are claiming your works, and in which you might want to consult a lawyer to help you understand what you’re agreeing to.

      You want to know if they’re claiming your work output, any output produced using company resources or property, or any output produced during your time of employment. I’m sure there are a bunch of positions for which that distinction is pretty important, but it’s a big thing in tech where I work.

    4. HA2*

      Depends on the company. The more heavily regulated fields do more of those checks (background/credit), even for hires that don’t technically need it.

      Proper use of company property and IP agreements are pretty normal for larger companies. But some small companies sometimes do excessive things. It’s pretty strict, but is it draconian/absurd or just normal-strict? Read it over.

      What field/company size is this?

    5. AnotherOne*

      the background check is normal (my office actual warns about it because (1) maybe you’ll have stuff you know will come up and you just want to nope and (2) ours notoriously takes forever.)

      credit checks used to be super common. now its state and field dependent (i think.) i believe some states banned it unless it’s job relevant. if you are working with money, probably relevant. if you are herding small children, probably not relevant.

    6. Tio*

      Background checks are standard. Credit checks I can easily see if you’re in a financial or financial adjacent – I had to get one done to get my brokerage license as the govt apparently wants to ensure you’re not a good target for bribery. I imagine it’s the same principles.

      My company’s use of equipment policy is pretty strict – we can’t attach an outside USB stick without getting it checked by IT (well, we’re not supposed to, anyway) but it’s mostly just a quirk to me. It’s been a great place to work so far.

  17. AnonymousOctopus*

    Update about a low-stakes question I asked two weeks ago regarding wanting more professional-looking hands and nails. I got lots of great advice that I’m happy to say has helped! I looked for male manicures and couldn’t find anyone offering it in my area, which was surprising and disappointing. But using cuticle remover cream once a week and cuticle oil/Vitamin E has made a big difference! I still have a rough patch on my thumb, but no bleeding or peeling. Thanks AAM community!

    1. sldriuwoemnc*

      Is “male manicure” explicitly something a place has to market? I guess I assumed at any nail place they’d take a male customer just as easily as a female one. And no negativity meant by this comment, genuinely confused/curious. Very interesting!

      1. AnonymousOctopus*

        I’m nonbinary and have had multiple bad experiences with nail techs pressuring/upselling me, assuming I am a woman and want “pretty” nails. I didn’t know male manicures were a thing until someone mentioned them here and booking one of those would be the only way I’d willingly go back to a nail salon.

        1. ThatGirl*

          So I just saw this reply after mine posted, and I understand your concern now – my apologies for assuming.

          1. AnonymousOctopus*

            No worries! I know it’s kind of an oddball problem to have, and I’m sure there are great manicurists out there. But I’ve tried multiple times at multiple different salons, and it’s just not for me. Which is why I’m so grateful to the AAM comment section!

        2. Slothy*

          Have you looked at a higher end barber? Like where they do the fancy cuts/shaves etc. that’s a more spa-like deal? They might do mani/pedis there that fit what you’re looking for. But very glad the recommendations you received here helped! When in doubt, always Aquaphor.

      2. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, most places you just tell them you want a manicure minus the polish – and then when they’re shaping your nails, that you want them short, if relevant. Octopus, you might want to try again and just go into any nail salon.

      1. Didn't Spit In Your Coffee*

        hey there, not op but it’s been a few days so i thought it would be helpful to have some recommendations instead of zero.

        for cuticle remover, i use blue cross cuticle softener. then, i take my olive and june dual-ended cuticle pusher and scrape along the corners of my nails. i like their cuticle pusher because i can be a little heavy handed and i have genetically terrible, soft nails. metal tools are too harsh.

        i also just use plain jojoba oil for my cuticles. using it once a day is a great habit. jojoba oil is widely accessible, and you can decant into unused, empty nail polish bottles from amazon and keep them all over the place to make it easier on yourself.

        i have bendy, peely nails and OPI nail envy has really helped me. water is one of the worst things for our nails since they’re so absorbent. keeping your nails lacquered, even if it’s just clear lacquer, will help strengthen them (and if you’re interested in growing them, it helps them get / stay long).

        hope that helps!

    3. Lady Danbury*

      Glad it worked out for you! I need to follow my own advice because my nails definitely aren’t at their best right now!

  18. Llama Wrangler*

    I was at a conference earlier this week, hosted by an external organization at a hotel where all food + bev were provided by the hotel, and I got what seemed to be minor food poisoning. (Not going to get into the details, but I recovered in <24 hours. I know least one other person had the same symptoms in the same 24 hour period, though also plenty of people I talked to were fine). I didn't miss any major sections of the conference, but is there any reason to notify the conference organizers? Is there any reason to notify the hotel?

    (This could have been a real horror story but luckily my room was right upstairs, and even better I have family in the city so I could go to them after the conference ended.)

    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      I would notify both the hotel and the conference organisers. If something like this happened at a conference that I coordinated, I would want to know about it.

      If the venue contract for next year’s event has been signed way in advance and they’re going back to the same place, there might not be a way to back out – but the organisers can still take the food poisoning info into account by including it in feedback to the hotel and asking what they will do to make sure the problems don’t recur. Also, since you know there were multiple people affected, it might be good to report it to the local environmental health/restaurant safety agency where the conference was held.

    2. Rick Tq*

      Notify the hotel, the conference organizers, and especially the Public Health Department for the locality. Food contamination problems are no joke.

  19. Ann O'Nemity*

    Have you ever seen a demotion turn into a positive outcome?

    A couple of years ago, I promoted someone into a management role, but it’s become clear that the position isn’t the right fit for them—and they’ve expressed that they’re not happy in it. Fortunately, from a budget standpoint, there’s enough overlap in salary bands to move them back into their previous individual contributor role without reducing their pay.

    They’re open to the transition and actually prefer the work they were doing before. The challenge is that they’re hesitant to let go of the management title and are concerned about how it might be perceived—as a step backward. Unfortunately, we don’t have a senior-level individual contributor role in that function, so this would technically be considered a demotion in title, even though it aligns better with their strengths and interests.

    Has anyone navigated something like this successfully—where a title change felt like a step down, but ultimately worked out for the individual and the team?

    1. ThatGirl*

      The woman who hired me was the manager of our immediate team, with three direct reports. About a year into my tenure, we had a reorg and she got technically demoted to senior IC, with no direct reports, so we’re all at the same level. I can’t possibly imagine they reduced her pay, and she has not seemed upset about it – I think she enjoys the individual work more than she did the management aspect.

      That said, I think maybe you should work on adding a senior IC title, if possible.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        At this time, we’re unable to add a senior individual contributor role. Our current organizational structure follows a very defined (and very rigid) framework for roles, ranks, and bands. The responsibilities and scope of this particular position don’t align with the criteria HR uses to define a senior-level role. As a result, it doesn’t qualify for that designation under our existing structure, and I don’t anticipate changes to those requirements in the near future.

        1. sb51*

          That is going to be an issue across the board for your company in the future — sure, something might be able to be filled by an entry-level person, but if you want people to stay, you have to give them growth paths. What would her growth path have looked like if she hadn’t taken the management position in the first place?

          Is there an additional non-management responsibility that could be added to her plate to make it eligible for a senior role/title? Or could at least the role be re-titled at the same level so it looks like a lateral move?

        2. Cinn*

          Could you get away with some creative synonyms for manager, like “leader” or something if senior is out?

          I do know of people who were happy being “demoted” back to IC after being a manager, because they really weren’t suited to the management side of things. Most of the time because it was an open discussion between them and higher ups it didn’t really come across as a demotion so much as a mutual agreement it made sense for them to have a different role. In one case, though, the company put the person in a project management position which in many ways was just as bad because they never did take ownership of said project.

    2. Really Robbie*

      I’ve seen this happen in my field. People will move into management, realize it’s not for them, and move into a sort of “super senior” IC role. Thankfully we have need of veteran ICs who know the field, technologies, and the business inside and out.

      Both you and they have accurately identified that the framing — how it looks to others — is the delicate part. Wish I had more advice here! Hopefully wiser commenters can provide some.

    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’ve seen some people do it before. One former coworker used to have a management role, but was better suited as a high-level IC. Also, my former boss left our organization to take on an individual contributor role at another organization. Both were happier. But it sounds like your employee really does have a problem with the change in title. Is it possible for you to work on creating a senior-level IC role? I know firsthand that some places can make this incredibly difficult, so I’m not suggesting it lightly, but it might be that there is something you can do that would make it a positive not just for this employee, but for your organization. For example, could it be argued that having a subject matter expert or a project manager would free up the people managers from having to do that work as well?

    4. MsM*

      Can you adjust the title in some way to emphasize the specialized aspects of the work? That’s what I did when I decided I didn’t like the parts of the job that came with more managerial responsibilities, and it’s worked out fine.

    5. former manager*

      I’m literally in the middle of doing this right now. I took a management role because it was (at the time) the only way to advance in my department. I have epically crashed and burned at it for almost 3 years, and recently got offered the opportunity to move back to an individual role. I jumped at it, and have zero regrets. My personality and brain are not built for management y’all.

      There’s a little weirdness still with the people I used to manage, that I’m sure will get weirder when they have to project manage me on a project. It is what it is. I know my own strengths, what I’m good at, and that I did what was best for me by taking what looks like a step back. I don’t know if there’s much a manager can do to help an employee here; it all had to do with adjusting my own thinking (and also knowing how miserable I was as management).

      My manager did reassure me that my former employees actually were really happy I stepped back; not because they disliked me as a manager, but because they like me as a person and didn’t like seeing me so obviously miserable. So I don’t know if that’s some kind of reassurance you could provide your employee, that colleagues don’t think less of them for doing what’s best for them, and that you also don’t think less of them?

  20. Kay*

    How do I get my boss to coach me more? I’ve almost always been the subject matter expert in my job (think teacher, supervised by a “principal” who was never a teacher himself). I honestly like it, as I have a lot of freedom. But a coworker recently switched jobs and is being coached pretty intensely by her new manager. I see the benefits of it! How do I ask my boss if he’d do the same? I think he’d be willing to try, but I’d have to take the initiative to ask. He’s pretty busy.

    1. Medium Sized Manager*

      Are there specific things he does well that you would like to learn? Specific topics you think you would be helpful to your role? Starting there would help. I would struggle if my team just said “teach me more!” but I have had success with team members who want to know more about managing people, data handing, process management, etc.

    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      You need to figure out a professional development plan. What are you trying to accomplish? What skills do you need to get there? Then talk to your boss. He might be the best person to coach you on those skills, or he might recommend some other ways of getting that development (trainings, mentorship, etc.).

  21. Really Robbie*

    I’m on the market. I was laid off a few months ago, but I’m in final rounds with a few companies, thankfully.

    One of those companies asked me to put together a presentation in preparation for the final round of interviews. That’s a little annoying, but whatever-they pay well. In their description of what’s requested, they specifically said I’ve got ten days for this. I like that timeframe because it means I can chip away at it at a leisurely pace – I’m not interested in losing sleep for a prospective employer. But they sent a follow-up email about how they’d actually like this slide deck by early next week. No explanation, which would reduce my annoyance a little bit. I’m really not trying to sound like a diva, but “it would be great to have this earlier than the prior due date” isn’t convincing when it comes from someone I’m working with. At least give me an “really sorry to ask, but can you actually give us an abbreviated version earlier – [we have a lot of strong candidates right now and are trying to schedule them all / a major person on the hiring panel is going on vacation soon / whatever the reasoning is].”

    TBH, that’s got me hoping that one of the other companies I’ve had reaches out and wants to extend an offer. I would consider telling the pushy company that I’m pursuing other options instead anyway, but unemployment benefits.

    1. juliebulie*

      Hmm, I’m not sure if there was an ulterior motive behind the request to send the deck earlier (like “see if the applicant is flexible,”) but as an applicant I would assume that this is typical of what it’s like to work there. It might not be, but I would absolutely assume it. I take deadlines very seriously, but if this is a place where you literally can’t plan for anything because they keep moving stuff around, I don’t think I’d thrive in that chaos.

      Unemployment benefits should not be an issue. You won’t lose your benefits for failing to jump through their tiny hoop. Turn in an incomplete slide deck with “TBD” and see what happens. In the remote possibility that they will appreciate the frankness of a thoughtful but unfinished slide deck vs. a crappy rushed one, this might turn out to not be what it looks like. On the other hand, if it is, bullet dodged.

      1. Really Robbie*

        Yeah, you’re right in saying that there probably isn’t any ulterior motive around that. Being between jobs just makes me more anxious. It likely is all in my head.

    2. NforKnowledge*

      If they’re saying it would be nice to have it early rather than that they need to have it by the new date, I would just politely decline and work to the originally agreed upon deadline. If they were paying me I would at least consider whether I could do it faster, but for a prospective employer?? Nah

    3. Jess*

      I’d try to anonymously check the situation with unemployment benefits and where you stand if you advise you can only stick to the original deadline.
      Here’s hoping you’ll get a job offer from one of the other companies!

  22. President Porpoise*

    How do you figure out exactly how many staff members you need to hire? I’m brand new in my company, in a newly created role, leading a new department doing a critical, high visibility function with a huge financial impact. I should be able to get approval to hire as many people as I can show I need. However, given that this is a new department and I will be having my team pick up work that has never been done before at my company (some of which is currently outsourced to a provider who is underperforming), estimating needed labor is a challenge. I don’t want to hire too many people, but I also don’t want to underestimate and then deal with chronic short staffing forevermore. Suggestions?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Do you have access to the financial & performance reports of that outsourcer? That’s one benchmark.

      1. President Porpoise*

        Yes – for the aspects they do, they’re paid well above industry standard. As for performance reports there’s been nobody here with enough expertise in my area to actually assess performance, but I have been Not Impressed with what I’m seeing to date.

        There’s a lot of other stuff that’s never been done before by anyone and picking it up could save us literal millions annually. I’m not worried about building a business case – it practically writes itself. I’m more concerned about “if I estimate this task will take between X and Y hours annually, should I say that I need Z employees to cover, or Z*1.2 to account for unknowns? Or is Z too much and I should aim for Z*0.8 so I won’t have people sitting around and twiddling their thumbs?”

        I’m honestly probably overthinking it, but I’m going to have to support my request all the way up the leadership chain.

        1. Rick Tq*

          Estimate as best you can the total number of man hours per year required to complete all the tasks. Divide that number by 1,600 (not 2,000) to get the number of people required.

          Why 1,600? You need to allow for vacations and other absences, the 80% rule is pretty common. You don’t want your team to be so locked in so only one person at a time can be on vacation without the whole group going into the weeds if somebody is sick at the same time.

    2. lost academic*

      Start from the top and focus on building out what your team does, just like organizing a workflow. List out all the responsibilities and tasks required (weekly, monthly, annually, whatever your timeframes are)and get more and more specific until you can’t break it down further. Lump the responsibilities into appropriate roles (teams or individuals but you might decide that in the next step) and then assign time to each task item. You’ll then see how much time you expect the responsibilities of your team is generally required to take, and you can edit that as an ongoing process based on the experience and familiarity of the staff that end up doing those jobs. You’ll be able to sort the hours into the roles and figure out how many FTEs you need to accomplish that. Add in a safety factor for lost time, QA, learning curves too, and make sure that when you present this to your superiors, you’re backing up your request with the necessary data and requirements for each role as well as a forecast for the potential to determine that you will need X additional headcount by Y months into the team’s work.

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        I haven’t done this, but maybe you could
        supplement with contractors until you know the level of staffing? This has happened at other jobs I’ve worked at. Some of the contractors were brought on full time once we knew the right level of staffing.

    3. Tio*

      I forget if it has an official name, but basically you break down every single task your department does. Add how much time per week it takes. 40hr/week = 1 FTE. Don’t forget to build in buffer for sick and vacation time (decent formula is hours/year of off time/52 = average time off buffer per week.) You could also do it by day but I find weekly easier to formula out.

      Also be sure and note if certain tasks MUST be done at a certain time and/or concurrently by more than one person, and leave in additional buffer time for emergencies, sudden requests, training, meetings, etc. You want to round up on the FTEs to be safe if you can swing it.

    4. Part time lab tech*

      Could you budget for a couple of PT staff to buffer or entry level students on a one year contract? Perhaps starting in summer for training?
      If you need more people you can hire the good ones or give them more hours. If you don’t need them, no harm. They’ve got valuable work experience and you have a planned out.

    5. IT Manager*

      Good advice from others on listing and estimating the actual tasks, I would just add 2 things –

      1. Keep a list of assumptions . (“Task x takes 2 hours and occurs 3/week”). Share those with your boss and see if they agree before you propose the staffing. If those change or turn out to be incorrect, that’s how you anchor back to adjust later. In fact, propose a Year 1 budget only and specifically request to re-review staffing once you have a baseline for the first year. (“Task x turned out to take 6 hours – we will need to hire 2 more Task Xers if it’s important to completely all of those within 24 hours”) And, you can ask your boss whether they think you should staff exactly to your assumptions, or whether it’s more important to definitely meet all your SLAs and in that case slightly overstaff in year one.

      2. Explicitly account for PM, status reporting, team collaborations. If you have a team meeting, thats an hour people can’t spend on tasks. If you ask someone to create a report, thats 2-10 hours to gather data. If you will be answering 400 emails a day, thats a bunch of non-task time. Etc. Especially for year one, carve out some time explicitly to create processes, workflow and documentation.

  23. Holly Gibney*

    Hi! I’ve been at my admin job for less than a year (started in late September) and I’ve accepted a spot in a grad program in another state in the fall. My plan is to see this job through the end of the fiscal year (for us it’s end of June) and then move, but I’m wondering how much notice I should give. My boss is very reasonable and I’ve had a good experience here (fled my last job because it was negatively affecting my health, I really needed to leave), so I want to give her as much notice as possible, but also, you never know if someone will react poorly to giving notice. And it’ll be obvious I’ve known I’m leaving for a while because grad programs typically admit in the early part of the year (I work in academia so she’ll extra know). I feel bad leaving after such a short time but I think grad school is a pretty solid reason that’s hard to get mad about. I’m thinking I’ll let her know at the beginning of June so we have a month to wrap things up. Anyone have any advice/thoughts?

    1. Lee*

      give two weeks, unless you can afford to be unemployed longer. if they are truly a good boss, they’ll understand the notice.

    2. Mrs. Met*

      Academic here! FWIW, there’s a pretty universal May 1 deadline to commit to a grad program, so you can realistically still be undecided for another 2 weeks! I think 4 weeks notice is a very generous and lovely thing to do for an employer but totally not necessary.

  24. Electric Mayhem*

    Looking for ways to respond to a slightly condescending and passive aggressive coworker. We’ve both worked with the company for over 15 years, but we have only been out of the same offive for the last 3 years. She’s always calm and seemingly polite, but manages to say things that seem to suggest I (and other employees newer to this site) don’t know things about my job or life in general. Examples include starting comments with “you just don’t see (part of the job that any reasonably person would assume I see), “you wouldn’t understand (something any informed person would read in the news), or just explaining a basic underlying prinicple of our field to me like I am a client rather than a coworker. It is always done with a calm tone and seeming helpfulness, but it really rubs me the wrong way. I am looking for ways to respond in the moment that convey that I know this and am competent at my job and a functioning adult. Any suggestions?

    1. cat herder*

      I empathize!! I have a similar situation (but my older, condescending, and passive aggressive colleague has been far less polite — downright frosty, actually) and so far I’ve been approaching it with the “kill them with kindness” mentality. It seems to annoy her even more, like I’m refusing to get ruffled by her b*tchiness, but it makes me feel better (at least in this case) to take the high road and be my usual friendly, pleasant self.

    2. WorkerDrone*

      I like a good, “why?”

      Her: “you wouldn’t understand (something any informed person would read in the news)”

      You: “Oh, why wouldn’t I understand that?”

      Said with a curious, friendly-ish tone of voice. It’s extremely entertaining to either a) watch someone fumble for a response that isn’t outright insulting or b) just come out and say the insulting thing, giving you more leeway to call it out.

    3. MsM*

      “In my 15 years of experience, I’ve learned it’s wise not to jump to conclusions about other people’s level of understanding.”

    4. Cookie Monster*

      I would say in a chipper tone, even chuckling a bit as if you two are sharing a joke, “Oh, of course I understand that. That’s pretty basic. Anyway…” and then just keep the conversation going.

    5. HannahS*

      ARGH that sounds so frustrating. I have a pretty visceral reaction when I disagree with someone and they go, “You just don’t understand blah blah blah.” Actually, I do understand; I disagree. Those are two different things!

      I sometimes interrupt people with a calm, neutral-toned “I’m sorry, what is it that you don’t think I understand?” And make them answer that. And then, assuming they say something like, “I just mean that you don’t understand how aluminum tariffs will impact our company, because our product is made from aluminum.” And then I might say something like, “Thank you Jennifer. I actually do understand that. What I was trying to say was that [repeat the thing you were trying to say to get the conversation back on track.]”

      A more pithy version would be to look slightly taken aback and say, “Well, I’m not sure why you think I wouldn’t understand that; I’ve been in this field for 15 years/I keep up with the news. The point I was trying to make is that…”

      1. Electric Mayhem*

        These are good suggestions. I have had an easier time responding when it is a work discussion. I’m having a harder time responding when these comments seem to be dropped into casual work-related chit chat. Part of the problem is I can’t tell how much my coworker’s comments stem from thinking I don’t know, and how much of them come from her living a pretty entitled, insular life so sometimes her comments seem to be because she’s used to being the person in her social circle who knows these things. She is also the master of calm delivery, so I worry that if I explain myself too much, I look defensive/emotional or get a “oh, I wasn’t implying that at all.” I did get a side-eye once when I said, yes, I understand this. I like the approach of asking why or just breezily saying something like “of course” when I get the primer on basic job functions.

    6. Quinalla*

      I like the “Why do you think I don’t see/understand that?” and see what they say.

      If it still keeps happening: “You keep saying I don’t see/understand even after we talked about this, what’s going on there?”

  25. Was there a crime?*

    Question for something that happened many many years ago. Is there a crime here? Embezzlement? Fraud?

    A big company I worked for contracted with university hospitals for “llama grooming” projects with specific llama professors. One prof formed his own sneaky LLC. He never sent the contracts through the university and had the payments sent to a PO Box. The LLC name sounded very much like the payment arm of the university. I discovered this by accident & told my company without tipping off the prof. Our attorneys said never to mention it or answer any questions because as far as we knew, we had a legitimate contract with the university. And thought the payments were going to the university. My company didn’t want to get in the middle of a dispute between the prof & the university.

    The university eventually figured it out & he was fired. It didn’t seem like he was arrested or anything.

    My company clearly didn’t do due diligence before sending the contract.

    My question: what was his crime, if any? Was this embezzlement? The university never had a contract so he wasn’t siphoning off from their contract. I’m sure HIS contract with the university mandated all projects had to go through them. He used university employees, time & equipment for the project. Maybe the crime was fraud. But just with the university? Was a crime committed against my company?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It was also fraud against your company because he was misrepresenting himself. I’m sure there were all sorts of things in the boilerplate of the contract about certifications, liability insurance, etc.

    2. Pink Flamingo*

      Most (probably all) universities require that a certain percentage of all outside funding goes to them, for overhead. It covers all sorts of things that indirectly support the professor’s research, like insurance coverage, administrative staff, building maintenance, and all the costs of running a lab (which tend to have crazy-high electric bills, for example, because running all that equipment is not cheap). The amount of overheard varies from institution to institution, but I’ve seen it be as high as 40% for professors running research labs, meaning that if someone was awarded a $1M grant, $400K of it would go to the university. So if the professor was setting up the LLC as a way to collect payment directly and avoid having to give the university its “cut,” that’s definitely fraud.

  26. Aggretsuko*

    I keep screwing up at work. I was having a hard time with a template at work and managed to send the email twice without fixing every single aspect of it, and between that and my recent not-great performance during medication change… I had a conversation with my boss yesterday about how maybe I have to find an “easier” job if I can’t stop screwing up at this one. And I can’t. I will be doing fine for awhile and then make some other mistake and ruin my reputation and make myself look bad. I can’t stop screwing up. I can’t even blame stress any more, I just…do that.

    As for my probation, the conversation varied between “well, you were fine but you aren’t now” and “I might have pulled you from probation, but you have a month left to go and we (probably?) won’t can you with a month to go,” and I have to have a meeting with the big boss today about my failures at performing. My boss is understanding and being very nice about the whole thing and she says big boss will be same, but I cannot even think of how to not screw up, because it’s not even occurring to me to notice that I’m doing it. And “go slower” doesn’t really work for me. It’s like I’m walking along doing fine and then just keep falling into pits of stupid periodically and I can’t stop it. I can’t talk to my doctors until my appointments next week.

    I can’t go do an “easier” job. Aside from having to take a pay cut to get this one as is, lower level jobs are all phone answering work and if I keep on making stupid typos and saying the wrong thing and not noticing I’m doing it, that’ll be even worse in lower level jobs. And I can’t do food service/retail, those give me huge anxiety. I just can’t stop failing. I don’t qualify for disability (doctors told me no to that) and I have 20 years of work to slog through, but I’m literally too stupid to get it. If I’m so smart, why do I keep making dumb easy mistakes? Everyone asks me that and I don’t know why.

    It doesn’t matter why I make mistakes, I have to be perfect and stop making them, that’s unacceptable, and I don’t know HOW to stop screwing up all the time.

    1. Just a Pile of Oranges*

      Are there any common elements in the things you’ve made mistakes with so far?

    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      I felt like this in my old job, a long time ago. I was an admin, and I was a TERRIBLE one. And I couldn’t stop screwing up. I also didn’t blame the stress, but man, the stress kept mounting and it made things worse. I was afraid I wasn’t cut out to be a competent worker at all. I ended up quitting and taking some time as a temp. The temp roles actually helped me realize that I wasn’t incompetent, and that I COULD do better. The lower stakes feel of the temp roles may have helped with that. This boosted my confidence back up a bit, and at one of the temp jobs that was longer term, I asked about the possibility of a permanent role. My boss said she’d love to say yes, but that she had just accepted another job elsewhere, but offered to give me a reference for a position in a related office at the same employer where we had been working. I applied for that job, and got it. I was a hot mess for a while in terms of my anxiety about screwing up and getting fired, but even when I did make a mistake here or there, it wasn’t big, and my manager didn’t make me feel three inches tall. It wasn’t long before I managed to apply for and get a promotion. I’ve now been with this employer for many years, and have been promoted five times since I was originally hired into a permanent position.

      It SUCKS to feel the way you do. But maybe a change will help.

    3. Baby Yoda*

      We all make mistakes. Can you try and catch them before anyone else does? Could someone review stuff for you?

    4. Former Blunderer*

      I don’t know if this is helpful, but I’ve received a lot of the same feedback – stop making “stupid” mistakes, go slower, etc; and often found that “going slower” was not actually helpful.

      What I did notice was that _feeling_ stupid had me _acting_ stupid more than anything. When I felt like I had made a mistake, many more were to follow. And interacting with people who were determined I was being stupid made me panicky and had me making mistakes. I’ve noticed this in younger coworkers, as well, when they feel like they’re messing up and can’t stop stepping on their own feet.

      What helped was this:

      I got in to a different position – one that doesn’t really ever require doing things exactly correct the first time. I was in data entry, and am now a data analyst – arguably a “harder” job, but I often feel like the demands on people with “easier” jobs would crush me

      I got out of the company I was at – even if you’ve improved, this management will always hold this opinion of you. If you feel your management thinks you’re dumb, they probably do, and it doesn’t actually matter how smart you are or how good you are at your job. It’s easier to find a new job than change that perception.

      And the big one – I went to therapy. I started to value myself, and when there was a problem, not immediately blame myself. If there was an issue with the email template, that’s a problem with the template, not you. When you make a mistake, it’s just that – a mistake – not a reflection on you as a person. Honestly, it sounds like your company is being pretty crappy about this, and that’s a reflection on them – not you.

    5. spcepickle*

      Executive function coaching. If your employer has an EAP (and many of them do) call them and ask for help getting set up with an executive function coach. You can also just google on in your area or go through health insurance if you have that. They can work with you where you are to help figure out what steps you need. Because what you need to change your workflow is different than what I needed. It will be about you individually.
      Also for real, stop calling your self stupid, think about how you would respond to a friend if they called themselves stupid. It is clear from this letter that you are not. You just need a slightly different path to get work done then others. This is way more common then you think, with so many of us needing to tweak the way we travel through the world to make the world work for us.

      Last thought – Is office work for you? There is way more than office work or retail/ food service. Have you looked at the trades? Doing things with your hands might be a better fit and they are great jobs, with good benefits and lots of growth. I have a friend who recently started training to be an electrician – he is making money while doing the training, and it is really working for him.

    6. Tea Monk*

      I have the same problem. All the jobs with a living wage and insurance require tons of detail orientation or twelve hour shifts ( food not included )

    7. GERDQueen*

      I recently was hit very hard by a medication change and came off…weird…to my team. I was lucky that I was able to take some days off during the transition when I just could not for the life of me complete a complex task.

      Are you still impacted by the effects of that med change? And if so, do you know how long they will last?

      I’ve found that coworkers are very willing to give grace on brain fog stuff once you build up a professional reputation, but I still need to take off on “bad brain days.” I also know that I’m lucky to have that option.

  27. PleaseNo*

    It’s manager-feedback season (like S360) in my company, and I’m debating what feedback to give to my manager.

    Last year the feedback showed there were several problems with the minions with harassment, discrimination and bias happening, so his solution then was to put together a series of meetings for employees to share feedback with the lead (who is just another employee) who would then “anonymize” it and take it to him. He said he didn’t want feedback without accompanying solutions. So we provided it to him as well as some possible solutions (like a consultant? We weren’t sure what the solution would be other than tell people not to be jerks). He got back with us later last year and said he went to HR with the complaints/examples and HR said they do not meet the standard of any formal intervention by HR.

    So he said there’s nothing to be done and to move on.

    Well, that clearly didn’t work. Still seeing and experiencing the same thing.

    I have already spoken up in the minion-meeting about how a good manager would still find ways to address the issues since they are real and impactful to the employees even if they don’t rise to the formal-HR intervention standard.

    Our manager says move on.

    So now it’s S360 time and he wants feedback with solutions again. I’m not sure what to put. I feel like this is a windmill I’ve already fought against and am now tired. I don’t have solutions that he’d find acceptable I guess. I’m not a manager and don’t have all the information to know what would work for him. I have a mentor who I’ve spoken to about this elsewhere in the company and she was shocked at his response and told me a few things she would do if she was told that (I didn’t write them down so I don’t recall exactly but it’s commonsense things).

    Do I still say something or do I let it go? It should be anonymous (they say AI will be used to rephrase our comments).

    My real solution is to find another position in the company — there’s a hiring freeze right now, but I’m poised to spring at any internal ad.

    1. Generic Name*

      Feedback: giving you solutions for problems that are in your purview as a manager to solve is inappropriate and demoralizing
      Solution: do your damn job

      Okay, not really. This is a really asinine system. I’ve also had bad experiences with 360 reviews, and I now hate them. Since putting your neck out there to give honest feedback (AND the solution) didn’t work, next time what about providing anodyne feedback that is not risky to bring up. Stuff like sometimes you send me work assignments via teams and email works better for me.

      1. PleaseNo*

        lol

        I get your point — play the game with trivial suggestions. Sigh.

        Yes, I can understand why he wants solutions but I don’t think the minions are necessarily in the best position to know what the solutions are or if they are actually solutions or if there are solutions…
        I hate his caveat.

  28. Pay no attention...*

    A woman I’ve worked well with for over 17 years seems to be in decline mentally and I don’t have my own energy to help her any further. Sorry, I’m not sure I have a question but advice would be appreciated if you’ve had a similar experience — so late-career people who have worked well with someone for a long time.

    I’ve had a great working relationship with her — she’s not in my department and actually higher title/rank than me — but she was extremely competent at her job; very thorough, detail-oriented, responsive and smart… and now she’s a nightmare internal client to work with. I’ll mention this because I think it’s relevant… she’s in her 60s, I’m in my 50s and going into menopause.

    I have to send her things multiple times because she “didn’t receive it” but she responded to the first email or chat so I know she did. I have to clarify that what she’s asking for often isn’t something I can help with… things like our org website navigation, which is 1) a different group within my department, 2) it’s clear that she’s having a user error and not a website error, 3) also we certainly aren’t going to undertake a massive nav change on her request and 4) it feels like she lacks self-awareness of that fact(?). She uses me as a “bookmark bar” for common org web links or a filing cabinet for her purchase orders, “Where’s that link to the IT ticket system again?” “Can you send me a copy of the last purchase order?” Except, I’m not IT or Purchasing. Minor things have an outsized importance for her — for example her department has a big event coming up in 2026… it’s April and I’m putting out 2025 fires left and right … but she needs an event icon/graphic ASAP. Nah, I’m forehead deep in Graduation right now…knee-deep was in February.

    I’m trying the tactic of kind but unhelpful at this point. But I feel so unkind. Her assistant quit recently — moved to another state so I don’t think it was because of her — but I don’t think HER boss plans on filling that position again. I think she’ll lose her job if she can’t get it together, but I’ll lose my mind if she doesn’t…step…all the way off.

    1. Librarian of Things*

      I’ve had to let staff go when their (as far as I know, undiagnosed) dementia made it impossible for them to do their jobs. It started with smaller things, almost unnoticeable (“where do we keep this [thing I don’t actually use often]?”), but eventually got to not completing fairly significant portions of the job or completing them badly, when they used to be excellent at it. It SUCKS. It’s the actual worst thing, knowing that their coming to work is probably one thing slowing down their mental decline and I’m taking that away.

      But, doing that comes with the territory of being the manager and their manager should be the one handling it, not you.

      What you, as an affected coworker, should do is document your interactions, then share your concerns with their manager. My experience with both family and employees with mental decline is that they find someone to act as their crutch and shield, consciously or unconsciously. If you are providing that cover, it drives you insane but it also could be keeping their manager from being aware of the problem or of its extent. So, over a short period of time, keep track of the things you’re being asked to do by this coworker, then pass the information on to their boss.

      I’m sorry. It’s hard to be a bystander and watch someone decline, knowing that you can’t stop that decline and that they probably know themselves that it’s happening and are panicking about that.

    2. DEJ*

      I’ll try to post the link in the next comment, but look up ‘My Coworker is having serious memory issues’ from April 5, 2023.

    3. LuckySophia*

      Your situation sounds remarkably familiar to me. I worked with an outside marketing client for +20 years. Like your client, he was smart, competent, detail-oriented and scrupulously organized. Until he wasn’t.

      Subsequently, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. He was also volun-told to retire,
      after his colleagues/bosses had noticed too many things that seemed “off.”
      It’s unclear if their decision came before or after the formal medical diagnosis.

      Which is to say, even IF you were magically able to fulfill every one of your client’s requests (including the wildly inapplicable ones) it would not prevent the progression of (what I assume are) her medical symptoms, nor would your efforts be able to protect her job. It is a very safe bet that she is also struggling with/failing at other core job duties beside those that touch your daily work. Those failures will be highly visible to her colleagues/bosses irrespective of what you personally can or cannot do.

      My client’s forced retirement spurred him to seek residence in a memory care facility, where he received the support he actually required. If your client loses her job, it may be a similar blessing in disguise. (I understand the frustration and sadness you’re feeling, but please don’t feel guilty. You are offering her kindness, and that is really all you can do.)

      1. cncx*

        I had a family member with dementia whose core task at his job involved reviewing the paper submissions of his colleagues for grants and journals (academy adjacent) which required a lot of attention to detail and he too got voluntold to retire when he just kept missing the little details which used to be his strong point. I think they may have even come close to losing a grant.

        He unfortunately did not use this as a sign to go into memory care when he should have for Reasons. The whole situation was just sad.

    4. Goldie*

      I would start cc-ing her supervisor or your supervisor on the repetitive things. I would mention the challenges with this person without labeling it–Joan keeps asking the same question over and over and not Joan might have dementia.

    5. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Are you friendly enough with her to have a private conversation? “Dagmar, we’ve worked together for a long time, and I’ve known you as a very competent, detail-oriented, smart person who brings a lot to the organization. So that’s why I’m asking the question: Your recent interactions with me are a lot more scattered and you don’t seem to be tracking information as well. Is there something going on with you medically? Is it possible you need to be checked for some kind of condition that might be interfering with your normal intelligent responsiveness?”

      And if she bristles and tells you to (truck) off, apologize and back off. But at least you’ve brought up the possibility.

      1. Reg*

        I did this with a coworker who I had known for many years. We had several talks about it. He refused to see a doctor, said nothing was wrong, even though several of us who worked closely with him had seen alarming changes. Fortunately I was also friends with his wife, and when I called her (after much soul-searching as to the appropriateness of doing so), the first thing she said was, “Thanks for telling me. I was afraid I was the only one who noticed.” My coworker eventually agreed to go to the doctor and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. Of course this only worked because I already knew his whole family. I would not have called someone I didn’t know. But I would at least try to talk to the colleague.

    6. Anne*

      The examples you give are all things many assistants would do. Is it possible that she has changed less than you think, but losing her assistant accounts for the change?

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        I’m sure her assistant was her “shield,” as a commenter above put it, and losing that person has made her issues more visible.

        1. Pay no attention...*

          This is it. I rarely dealt with her assistant and she only had an assistant for a handful of all the time I’ve worked with her. Losing her assistant is certainly not helping, but the changes I’m seeing are definitely her memory, ability to problem solve, or adapt.

  29. Suckitupbuttercup?*

    When I started my current job 4ish years ago my immediate boss was… unpleasant. He actively sullied my reputation because I was better at the job than him (based on independent, regularly and externally moderated outcomes). For reference reasons, I felt trapped where I was until I could have multiple years of evidence in my favour. Now I wish I’d walked as soon as I realised what he was doing.

    I’ve worked really, really hard to improve my department, I’ve made a measurable, significant difference. While he’s still my boss I’ve had small promotions and been given a role aimed at whole-organisation level improvement (that portion of the role reports to someone 2 levels over my boss). But, my boss is well liked and I’ve never been able to recover socially in my immediate department. If anything, I detached myself from it for self-protection and focused on just delivering the best outcomes possible in spite of his efforts to undermine me. I think I am probably the b*tch eating crackers for some people.

    I now think I am trapped where I am for at least two more years for child-care/pay reasons. The only ways out are to accept a significant pay cut & demotion (and how do I explain that to a recruiter?) or look for a significant promotion (which I can’t commit to until my child is roughly 2 years older).

    Basically, in work I am sad and lonely but the rest of life is ok. Should I just stop whining and suck it up for two more years? Does anyone think the social side is fixable?

    1. WellRed*

      What is the social side at work like? Are your colleagues icing you out and making you eat lunch by yourself everyday while they sit at the next table? (I don’t mean this literally). Or, do they go out for drinks once a week and you’d like to go and are waiting for an invitation?

    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Maybe kill them with kindness? Be assertively friendly and cooperative to the point where they can’t help but realize who the bad guy was in that old situation.

      1. Suckitupbuttercup?*

        At times, yes? To the going to lunch without me. One or two will deliberately include me, but there are others it feels like are deliberately excluding me. Work lunches are on site on long tables that seat 20+ so if there’s a space near them I won’t avoid it, but other times I look for someone else who’s on their own and make an effort to chat to them instead. Big department nights out (1/2 a year) I always go, but the day to day ‘shall we have a drink’ I’m left out of, occasionally I’ll run into them on the way out but it’s not like they rub it in my face. Most of them aren’t mean, they just aren’t going to sacrifice social capital for me. I do sort of get it.

        I am as kind and generous as I am able to be, but any comment that can be seen negatively will be seen in that light however benignly it was meant. For example, a colleague was ill and a couple of them were being snide saying only shirkers take COVID tests. I said, maybe he just really needed to take the time off and it was twisted to me suggesting he was doing something fun! When I meant he was ill with COVID and therefore needed to be at home. But trying to stick up for him cost me plenty of good will.

  30. a perfectly normal-sized space bird*

    My team’s biggest client recently screwed up massively. Our team had been contracted to deliver 80,000 teapots, which took three weeks to get them all out, including a lot of additional evenings and weekends because the client wouldn’t authorize additional staffing. Two hours before EOB on the last day, suddenly there were 50,000 more teapots to deliver. After scrambling emergency standby staff and temporarily poaching staff from other departments and making 12 hour days mandatory, we managed to deliver all those teapots within 5 calendar days. The extra days delayed our new training by a week so now we’re cramming two weeks of work into one to catch up. An 8 hour day is now considered a short day. We’re not allowed to take PTO days during this phase of the project.

    I haven’t had a single day off since March 16. I am wiped out. My team is wiped out. We will be working again this weekend. My dad was visiting this week, the first time I’ve seen him in a year and a half, and I’ve only managed to spend time with him once for supper and once for lunch.

    So given all that, how guilty should I feel for setting a bunch of essential scripts to work in the background the rest of the afternoon, slipping away from my desk to take dad on a fun day trip before he has to leave tomorrow, and (at the urging of the rest of the team) still claiming those as work hours?

    1. No Witty User Name*

      I’d call in sick since they’re not allowing time off. Mental health is still being sick.

    2. Parenthesis Guy*

      Not guilty at all. They’re working you like crazy, and you deserve to be able to create an excuse to see your dad.

  31. Just a Pile of Oranges*

    I almost forgot my other question: My last day at my job is April 30. I had booked off April 25/28 for an event, and I don’t really want to waste half the value of my tickets, but should I be offering to cancel my time off?

    2. JustKnope*

      Don’t offer proactively! Be prepared to hear them ask, tell them you were really hoping to not cancel, but if they say it’s necessary then I wouldn’t die on that hill.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I second this! I will also add, if they do ask, how do you feel about offering to work until May 2 instead of canceling the days off? (I see in your previous comment that the new job starts May 5, so you’d only have a weekend instead on 4 days between jobs, but that would still allow you to go to your event.)

    3. orchivist*

      no! if they ask you to, you can consider it I suppose, but this sounds extremely like an anxiety thing. You booked the time off, they approved it, if they want it to change they should at least have to ask.

      Proactively offering it might make you feel less guilty but would it make you happier than going to your event? Would you be resentful of them for taking you up on your offer? My general outlook is don’t offer to do things you don’t want to do, to make your employer’s life easier, when they haven’t even told you they want you to do it.

  32. Anna Mouse*

    There’s a job opening that I’m really qualified for, and would probably be a good fit for, but I don’t want to apply, I don’t want a new job, I want the job I have. But the amazing job I have is in higher ed and I do not feel good about sticking my fingers in my ears and just hoping I can keep this going.

    I know that applying doesn’t obligate me to take the job and I may not even get an offer and it may not even be a good fit, but say it with me folks: I don’t wanna.

    1. MsM*

      So don’t? Unless you have reason to believe your specific position at your specific institution is in jeopardy, I don’t think you need to react like you need to be prepared to jump ship tomorrow.

    2. Educational Anonymous*

      A newly created position that I would have been a good fit for too opened up recently at the college where I work. I had known it was coming for several months but when the job was posted the description put me off enough to have me wavering on whether to apply. Then early on in the application process the VP in our bi-weekly staff meeting talked about it–and she completely put me off it. I decided, firmly, that there was no way I would do it not even if they tripled the salary. It isn’t that much more than I make, though it would have been a very nice raise, but it sounded so awful I am actually thrilled I hadn’t applied. Mine is tough now but there is no way I would want that kind of hell in my life. And I found it interesting that no one from my area of the college applied either. While I am not sure that no applicant came from another department, I do believe no one was, that they were all outsiders. (Coming into a very toxic atmosphere. I hope they have heavy-duty PPEs.)

  33. No Witty User Name*

    How do you handle an abusive trainer? Ive been in training all week for my long-awaited move into a role (going on 2 years and I’m just being trained-long story for another post)
    The teapot trainer has done the following this week:

    1. Told us that ‘ we shouldn’t be concerned if our company looks like a ‘douche’ in a certain situation!
    2. Muted my BOSS mid-sentence because she was asking something ‘off track’!
    3. Told me I was combative because I tried to explain a critical step in a procedure was missing (Boss backed me up that I wasn’t being that way AT ALL). Literally yelled at me!
    4. Consistently is using song lyrics that are just not appropriate (think using the song ‘OPP /Naughty by nature” and using our internal acronym PRP instead of OPP). “PRP, yah you know me….”!
    5. Using hip hop/rap references us GenXs dont understand (I’ve had to ask ‘what do you mean’?)!

    Luckily the training ends today but I feel unsettled over all this. Should I be a squeaky wheel about our interactions or let my BOSS handle it or just chalk it up to ‘people are weird’?

    1. CTT*

      I think 1 and 3 are worth raising. I would let boss raise 2 if they were upset by it, but doing it yourself would seem odd. For 4/5, I think those matter less. It’s funny to me that you take issue with him using too many references that are for a younger generation, but also that he was referencing a song from 30+ years ago. I think he may just be someone who way overused all sorts of pop culture references, which is annoying, but doesn’t rise to the level of yelling.

    2. sb51*

      I’d just ask your boss if she’s planning to raise issues and if she wants you to add your input to any feedback she’s raising.

      We had a much more subtle issue (weirdly microaggression-y/sexist trainer where all the women in the class were evidently thinking “is it just me….or….” and after we left the training and a bunch of us were still standing in the hallway, I said something. If I hadn’t, it’s possible no one would have, but once we all chimed in, a couple of the most senior people in the group volunteered to be the ones to take charge of providing feedback, so that the super-junior folks didn’t have to.

  34. NYadgirl*

    At what point do you just call it quits? I have been in my industry for 25 years, current job for 1 1/2 years. Changing jobs is limited as the bottom has dropped out of my industry (advertising). Clients are toxic, boss is unsupportive at best and malicious at worst, and my teammates and direct reports are infuriating. Every day has new, exhausting drama. This is impacting my health, to the point of being put on anxiety and blood pressure meds, and I cry pretty much daily over some new work thing. On paper I can retire (supportive spouse with a job, both mid 40s, no kids, paid off house) but between the market swings, fear of never finding a job again, and the likely need to decrease the extras to make it work on one take home paycheck, is it worth it? Or will that just be more stressful?

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      What about looking for a role in a different field where you might have some transferable skills? You might talk to a career counselor about where the skills you’ve acquired over the past 25 years would be valued. Frankly, crying every day means it’s time to do your best to do something else. You might be less stressed if that something else were something that would get you a paycheck. There’s also the idea of just taking on an entry-level job as, say, an admin or something, that would provide some income and get you out of your industry to maybe try something different. If you found you liked the industry and had some aptitude for it, you could choose to work on advancing a second career in that field.

      (FWIW, I often encourage people to think about the different jobs in the field of larger-nonprofit (e.g., higher ed or hospital) fundraising. There’s all sorts of stuff: communications and marketing, tech, data management, research, the actual asking-for-money stuff, event planning, analytics, etc. A lot of people come from outside the field with transferable skills from other fields and do great.)

      1. NYadgirl*

        I have thought about this and wouldn’t mind entry level elsewhere – but I am VP level and fear that will hold me back, as people will think I am too experienced. :(

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          It would help if you could target something else you’d like to do, and find reasons why you’re interested in going there instead of just getting away from where you are. I myself hired someone who’d been in pretty significant roles in a related field into a junior level position on my team. She explained to me that she knew it was several steps down in terms of title and pay from what she’d done previously, but that she was really interested in learning this particular job, and was able to describe how her prior experience would be an asset.

        2. Spreadsheet Queen*

          If you’re willing to do entry level just to get a break or potentially change fields, you can probably do that through a temp agency. They just place you where they have a client with a need that you can do (understanding that pay is not great, but it’s better than zero). Then you are exposed to different things, different companies, etc – and hey, if something clicks and then the new company loves you, maybe the rest falls away.

    2. MissGirl*

      You’re locked into all or none thinking. I either work full time at this job or never again. That’s probably due to the absolute stress you’re under.

      If you have enough to potentially retire, you have enough to take six months off and reevaluate at the end. You may decide to never work again, you may decide to find a new industry even if it means going a bit backwards, you may start freelancing, you may take on part time or seasonal work. Heck, you might start over at an entirely new career because you don’t have to work for a set salary any more.

      Pat yourself on the back for having this choice and take the time to recover. Look at this as your next great adventure.

    3. MsM*

      Can you take the occasional freelance gig just to keep your resume up to date, and reassure yourself that there’s still work out there if you need it?

    4. cathy*

      “If you have enough to potentially retire, you have enough to take six months off and reevaluate at the end.”

      I agree 100%. Years ago I quit a job that was killing me, and I didn’t have another job lined up. I had enough savings to make it through the summer, and decided to have a few months of fun while keeping my eyes opened for opportunities and saying yes to everything I could.

      My current job that I love fell into my lap a few weeks into my summer of fun, which ruined my summer of fun but I can’t complain.

      Purely anecdotal, sample size of 1, but quit your job! :-)

    5. Facs*

      First, I’m sorry about this. I’m in Healthcare and folks are becoming more and more difficult. Our systems are increasingly complex. Could you take 6 months to breathe and sleep and reorient?

    6. Rosie*

      I vote retire! Is it worth the stress and impact on your health for the extras you have from your paycheck? I’m willing to bet not. If you have more time you can save money from not commuting, more time to cook, etc. If you imagine your life as it would be if you retire, how do you feel?

  35. Pro Bonobo*

    I am the lead of a small team. Our org recently offered a “golden handshake” incentive. One of the team members who took it was required (by the division VP) to set a separation date earlier than they wanted because their work was not considered “critical,” and they are enormously pissed off. This is on top of feeling passed over for years.

    They are now leaving a place that they’ve worked at contentedly if not blissfully for a very long time in a stinky fog of resentment and blame. They are trying hard to act professionally and tamp it down in front of the team, but certainly everyone’s aware and it adds to the general sturm-und-drang we are all experiencing.

    I care about this team member (and all of them) and hate to see it end like this. Any advice/thoughts?

    1. JustKnope*

      It sounds like your coworker got kind of screwed over by your company and has a right to be mad :(

  36. JustaTech*

    Looking for some general advice:
    I’m brand new to managing – technically I’m not even actually a manager, but I have been asked to manage one of the people on my team since my boss was laid off last year. (The only “training” I’ve gotten is here and some books from my business professor dad.)
    We just did performance reviews and my report was very disappointed.
    Even though my boss and I had been very, very clear that there was only one “4” rating for our entire department, and everyone knows that many people really stepped up this year, she was still very disappointed to not get the 4 rating, or a promotion.

    This is where I feel very stuck – she did do some really excellent work last year, and stepped in on two completely different projects to completely save our collective bacon because we are so far past “lean” we’re somewhere between emaciated and skeletal. But so did other people. Also, she still needs to show sustained growth rather than a couple of one-off projects.

    If it were up to me, I would have given her a larger bonus to reflect the good work this year, and then talked about what she needs to do to build up for that promotion.
    But not only do I have zero say in things like bonuses, our head of HR has basically said all promotions are off the table. Heck, I didn’t get one and I’ve been pushed from IC to IC/manager!
    So I tried to talk about activities that would be good for her overall career growth (very specific things that she can take ownership of), but I just feel like I’m not getting through that promotions aren’t happening. (I said those words, exactly.)

    Is there something I missed? Some other way to say this that will get through to her?

    1. Trotwood*

      You can’t control her disappointment, which may be warranted in some ways and outsized in others. All you can do is give her the clear and direct feedback that you’ve already been giving, and give her an honest assessment of the opportunity for advancement and recognition in your organization. If she decides she wants to pursue employment elsewhere, at a company where she thinks there will be more opportunity for growth, that’s up to her.

      1. JustaTech*

        Thank you.
        I think some of the disappointment stems from what my boss told her during the year “you’re doing everything right for a promotion, there’s nothing else you could be doing”.
        I’ve been here long enough to read between the lines to see that “there’s nothing else you could be doing” is because literally there is nothing you could do to get a promotion, including taking on all the responsibilities of a whole new role above your own, but to someone who isn’t as experienced/cynical it absolutely could sound like “you’re 100% on track for a promotion”.

        I’ve also already said (more than once) that I would be happy to be a reference.

  37. Funfetti*

    Hiring Process Question-

    The answer is likely “it could mean anything” – but I still request some feedback/anecdotes.

    The job I’ve applied for almost a month ago (with a deadline to apply) got reposted on LinkedIn. I’m more butthurt because I’ve been dying for an update and seeing a repost was a kick in the gut. I have not interviewed but the Hiring Manager looked at my LinkedIn profile so I was hoping that was a wink towards a likely interview.

    What have folks experiences been with jobs reposting? Is it a start from scratch search? Just trying to expand the candidate pool? I didn’t see any significant changes in job description. The job wasn’t originally posted on Linked In, which I was surprised by because it does have a location/market requirement so I’m hoping they’re just trying to expand the pool before they start interviews and not that I’m out of the running…

    I know I KNOW I need to see its just a bunch of maybes, but again anything in your respective experiences would be welcomed.

    1. MsM*

      No way to say for sure, but I think you have to assume it means they weren’t happy enough with what they saw come in that they don’t feel the need to keep looking, and focus on other opportunities. Sorry.

    2. Pink Flamingo*

      Oh, this means nothing. It’s a LinkedIn function and probably not even something the company is doing actively. When you submit a job posting to LinkedIn, you can choose whether you want to post it once or have it re-post multiple times. I think having it automatically re-post costs more, but most companies set it up that way because re-posting will “boost” the job in peoples’ search results. In my experience, no one thinks about it that much, they just have some standard thing they do whenever they post a new listing (like, set it to re-post once a month for 3 months, or whatever), and then they forget about it. So it CAN mean “We didn’t get enough qualified applicants for this role, let’s go and post it again,” but it often just means that whoever posted the job months ago set it automatically re-post and hasn’t thought about it since.

      1. Sneaky Squirrel*

        Yes this was my thought as well! Either the post was set to expire and they chose to repost it or they have an automatic feature with LinkedIn that re-posts open jobs in set intervals. Even if they were starting to seriously looking at resumes, they’d want to keep a new flow of candidates coming in continuously until they’ve received an acceptance, because candidates back out for a lot of reasons and it prevents them from having to start over.

        1. Funfetti*

          I should clarify they reposted it as featured post on their main feed like. Company did a post saying “apply for this job!” when they hadn’t done so previously… but the LinkedIn post had been up a month.

          I think in this case they didn’t get enough candidates but I just hope they aren’t throwing out the whole pool or just waiting to interview a fuller pool all at once.

          1. CTT*

            I think you need to take Alison’s advice to assume you didn’t get it and move on, and let it be a happy surprise if you get a callback.

          2. Pink Flamingo*

            I still don’t think it means much, because that can be automatic too. Companies might just rotate through their open listings and feature one a week or one a month or something. It’s possible that open listings are chosen at random to feature, and it has nothing to do with how good the applicant pool is.

            But even if it is the case that they’re doing this to boost the number of good candidates, it doesn’t mean anything about whether or not they will consider you. Lots of hiring managers won’t even start the initial screening until they feel they have a decent number of candidates to sort through.

  38. Ms. Whatsit*

    Exploring an option for a really different role (admin, private sector from policy, public service) that I think could be a really good change for me (work/life balance, stress, pay). I think I can answer skills applicability, willingness to do a role that doesn’t correspond to my education, etc., but in setting up the initial meeting I learned it’s at least starting as temporary (leave coverage), and probably starting sooner than I’d want for financial reasons (loan stuff). That really changes the calculus (commute, would need to move, and, already a concern but more, loss of loan forgiveness a few months out–all more possible if it’s a permanent thing and/or could start later).

    Obviously this is all hypothetical–maybe it’s not a fit, maybe they have better options, maybe it’s better for me to stay in my field or something closer to my education. But if it is a good fit otherwise, is there a good way to raise those issues in a way where I can either keep the door open for a future opening or find a solution (pie in the sky: start in August or September at a permanent position)?

    1. JustKnope*

      1) You can always ask what the possibilities are for a different role that would start later and/or be permanent but 2) It’s probably pretty unlikely you’ll get a firm answer, since they are hiring for a specific need right now (ie leave coverage) and they probably don’t have specifics for what other roles would open up in the future. I would *not* move or give up loan forgiveness for a temp job covering someone’s leave!!

      1. Ms. Whatsit*

        Definitely (even for permanent I’d be trying to start after hitting loan forgiveness). I’m also not in a place where I really need to leave ASAP so I have flexibility. This is through a connection who hadn’t realized it’s temporary but thinks there’s a possible pathway to permanence. So I think I probably need to script out my concerns so I can speak clearly on it if it comes up. And then crank up an actual job search.

  39. Staff Aug Blues*

    New project, with a lead who uses technical terms idiosyncratically, seems unable to distinguish between relevant information and irrelevant information, and just firehoses information out without seeming to understand other people can’t keep up. Especially still-somewhat-new people. Like me.

    Yesterday, we met so I could ask some questions and I had to raise my voice enough to speak over her and insist she slow down because I couldn’t understand her or keep up and trying to do so made it impossible to put two thoughts together, much less understand what she wanted me to do.

    I’ve set up semi-weekly 15-minute touch bases and she went in and responded to each one for the next 6 months individually with proposed new times for some dates. Instead of. . . just pinging that week and saying, “Hey, can we meet earlier tomorrow?”

    Any tips on reducing clashes between two clearly neurodivergent brains in the workplace?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      The talking over you is obnoxious but what’s the issue with addressing known calendar conflicts right away? Like, if I know I’m going to be unavailable at this time, why shouldn’t I suggest a different time while it’s on my mind instead of waiting til then and having to figure it out last minute?

    2. ADHDSquid*

      Oh see I would have also rescheduled those times upfront if they didn’t work with my calendar at the outset – otherwise there’s a decent chance everything around it fills up and by the time we are close enough to really pay attention and reschedule, it’s too late/there’s more calendar Tetris to be played than is worth it for a quick TB. But I’m also ND…

      1. ADHDSquid*

        I should have added: you need to advocate for your needs! Maybe you’d do better with written documentation vs. their brain dump (I tend to brain dump too quickly when done verbally and have gotten really good at making robust documentation for our P&Ps as an outlet/alternative)? You could read and then approach your time together as an opportunity to ask questions or for them to go deeper on the lore/context behind certain aspects.

  40. OwlStory*

    I know there are fellow public library peeps out there, and I need a gut check, I guess.

    On paper I’ve had 9 managers in 10 years of work, only working in two locations (and two positions) in a large system. In practice, due to temporary reassignment on both ends, job responsibility changes, a (manager) position being empty for four years, and one retirement, I’ve had about 14 or more people in charge of me in some way. This would be the people that are in charge of my performance evaluation and scheduling (including leave, training, etc, often two at once because I was offically working one job but temporarily assigned another location due to the pandemic, plus the whole “manager position open for 4 years” thing). Since I transferred to a more stable position in 2022, I’m in theory on my second manager but right now I have a temporary manager. My first manager was swapped with my “permanent” manager about 6 months after my transfer.

    Out of all of these changes, only three happened because of promotion (theirs), retirement, or leaving for other reasons. It’s almost been entirely due to their management deciding to move them. This is almost the norm in my system, with branches near me having manager changes as often as I have. This is weird, right?

    If it also helps, managers are not union but the rest of the staff are. This is my second professional long term position. The last place I worked (not a library) had a lot of staff turnover and reorganization for other reasons.

    1. Librarian of Things*

      I worked in a system once that rotated all managers regularly, probably 6-9 months. Theoretically, it was so that management would be consistent, that no branch would develop “well, that’s fine if they do that at Main, but we do it this way here” practices. In reality, the new managers would rotate in, make their new branch run exactly like their old branch, without ever once considering if there was any difference between the two. At the same time, THEIR old branch was being converted over to some third branch’s ways. So, peculiarities just rotated around and front-line staff had permanent whiplash from the unfounded changes being imposed without enough time to even see if they worked.

      It sounds like your system is doing something similar. It might be “normal,” but I can certainly see that it would be frustrating to have ever-changing direction.

  41. Da Analyst*

    Men – are you frequently asked to provide other people’s work or asked questions on their work?

    This happens to me all the time. It’s always men asking me to send them some other guys report. Then they ask me questions about his report. I’ve perfected the professional – you should ask him – response but I still find it annoying.

    It’s happened in several companies with several different guy bosses. The work I am asked to report on is sometimes a Sr. guys work but usually very junior.

    So dudes – does this happen to you?

    1. Dinwar*

      Happens to me constantly, but it’s more the nature of the role. It’s assumed I’ll know everything that happens on the jobsite, whether or not I’m told–and be able to explain in detail the decision making behind it, often at a moment’s notice. Like, I’ll be grooming a llama and someone will randomly walk up to me and ask why we chose pine instead of oak for the siding of a building half a mile away, when I wasn’t involved in that building.

      In my case it’s about 50/50 men and women doing this to me. And it’s people above and below me in the org chart doing this.

      I think the main factor is that you’ve made yourself a convenient person to ask. If you respond to these sorts of questions a few times you become the go-to person when someone has a question. Sometimes this is good (I’ve leveraged my situation to build a lot of political capital), but it can get extremely annoying, especially if you’re busy and these are interruptions.

    2. Parenthesis Guy*

      If the report is something my team creates, then sure. As a member of the team, I’m expected to have some insight into what they’re doing. And people on other teams’ don’t necessarily know who creates what. This would especially be the case if the team member is very junior and the person asking wants to make sure something is correct.

      If I don’t know, I’ll just say that.

      1. Da Analyst*

        It’s literally, Da Analyst, can you send me Sam’s report? (Sam is not on our team, I have no management of him).

        and a couple of weeks later it’s “Why did Sam choose Y instead of Z on the report?”

    3. Busy Middle Manager*

      I don’t see the dude angle here, but as a former Data Analyst.

      Yes I was often asked covertly to redo or look at other peoples’ stuff. Not uncommon.

      Senior boss may ask for a report with a vague directive, and someone else did it to the tee, but he/she wants someone who creates a story or narrative around the data, not just runs a report and sends it forward. If they don’t see a narrative in the data, they ask for more eyes to look at it. Also to double check for the usual data stuff like gaps, if another field can be pulled in, duplicates, etc.

    4. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Not sure why you’re only asking men, but I assure you this happens to women ALL THE TIME. Bob doesn’t turn in his report on time, let’s see if Jill, who is not Bob’s admin and doesn’t have anything to do with Bob’s work – can get it for us! They’re in the same department, surely she will take on the mental load of getting it for us!
      All
      The
      Freaking
      Time.

  42. I See Real People*

    Going through my company’s quarterly benefits/rewards statement email, I found that my annual “bonus” was going to be a much smaller amount than the bonus structure benefit based as a percentage of my salary as stated in my offer letter. I was hired as a leader with those type of benefits, exempt status, etc. When I asked HR about this, they emailed a response back several days later telling me that I’m ineligible for the bonus structure now with no real further explanation. They’ve offered to pay me a portion of this as a bonus at the end of the year. I’m not unhappy here, been here 5 months, and everything else is going well. This just makes me trust less. Has this happened to anyone else, and what did you do about it?

    1. JustKnope*

      You need to push harder on this! Ask for a specific explanation of what changed from your offer letter. Raise a (professional, calm, but firm) stink about it.

    2. cat herder*

      That’s frustrating and stingy of them, I’m sorry!
      When I was hired at Very Large American Bank, I was told I’d get 4 weeks PTO (same as the job I was leaving — a totally standard amount for my role / at my level). Then when I actually started, it was like a bait-and-switch — they told me it was 2 weeks vacation, 2 weeks sick time (which you can’t use until it accrues at X hours per paycheck), and NO you are not allowed to use sick time for planned leave unless it’s a medical reason. My manager was also new to the company, and felt badly for me (that’s the stingiest amount of PTO either of us have seen in the banking industry for executive level like ourselves), so he went to bat with HR and got me bumped up to 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick time. Which seems great but it was ONLY for my first year! It would go back down to 2 weeks vacation when the clock rest on everyone’s time off. I ended up leaving that company after a year to go to a place with 4+ weeks of PTO. What do companies expect when they bait-and-switch you?

  43. FluffyWaffle*

    Just got some strange feedback from my manager that I am struggling with.

    I’m a senior Teapot designer that was hired at the same time as a junior Teapot assistant. We are both temporary employees. I have 20 years of experience to their 2 years.

    This junior assistant has frequently stated they feel competitive with me. I tried to reassure them that it’s not a competition. I thought the conversation went well.

    Recently, there is a permanent opening on our team for a senior Teapot designer. Both of us applied for it. I expressed to them that they shouldn’t feel bad if they aren’t selected due to their different experience. I was trying to clear the air between us so they didn’t feel so competitive.

    Apparently this person complained to my manager? They said they felt competitive and uncomfortable. I asked my manager to tell me if I said or did something in particular, but they couldn’t tell me anything specific.

    I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what I said wrong. If I made a mistake I would like to know what it was.

    Any thoughts or ideas?

    1. StressedButOkay*

      I feel like if I was told, even if the person meant well, it would come across as condescending. I’m not sure why they feel like they’re in competition with you in general but I think the best thing you could have done in that situation was wish them luck or not say anything in general to knowing they also applied.

      1. FluffyWaffle*

        Yes, maybe I should not have said anything. I felt uncomfortable since they kept saying they felt like they were in competition with me. I just wanted to lay out that I don’t feel that way and we’re so different in terms of experience that it’s not like that

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Ok but you did that by pointing out to them that they don’t have as much experience as you do and, functionally, that you don’t think they’ll get the job that you also applied for. That is the complete opposite of de-escalating a competitive situation.

          1. FluffyWaffle*

            What’s the right way to deescalate? How should I respond next time someone keeps telling me they feel competitive with me?

            1. StressedButOkay*

              Maybe something like “I’m not sure why you feel like that! We’re not in direct competition here, that’s not how the job/company/x works.” or if they keep doing it something like “I’m sorry you feel like this but, like I said, we’re not competing. If you feel I’m doing something directly to make you feel like that, please let me know, but beyond telling you were not again, I’m not sure how I can help.”

            2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              “I’m sorry you feel that way,” and then, uh, avoid bringing up areas in which you are in fact competing and pointing out that they are lacking.

    2. MissGirl*

      I know you meant well but telling them not to feel bad if they didn’t get it could come off as condescending especially where they’re already feeling competitive. I would just take a step back and not engage with them on the new position or their feelings. It’s up to them to manage those thoughts.

      1. FluffyWaffle*

        You are probably right. They kept bringing up that they felt competitive with me and I felt I needed to address it?

        I thought this person was nice and friendly but that is likely just a front. I will stop talking to them about things outside of work.

    3. MsM*

      I don’t know why you’d jump straight to the possibility of them not being selected when you have no idea how things are going to shake out yet. Save that conversation for if it actually happens.

    4. Rags*

      I know you meant well, but I think you reinforced to them that is a competition by talking about their likelihood of not getting the position. Even if the reasoning behind what you said makes sense, you were reminding them that they could lose out on the position because they are lacking in some way. Also, you don’t really know what your employer is looking for or what their reasoning would be for hiring or not hiring someone. I think raising it with your boss is too much, but I can see why they felt uncomfortable.

      1. FluffyWaffle*

        Yeah I’m just baffled that they brought it up with the manager? I don’t know why they did that or why they feel this way. I guess I just don’t understand and I don’t have the opportunity to get any clarification

        1. WellRed*

          I would chalk this piece of it up to their relative inexperience in the workplace or a weird personal quirk on how to resolve things.

        2. Rags*

          Gently, given that you didn’t realize how this came off and based on your other responses here, I wonder if you have been saying other things along these lines and telling them why they wouldn’t get the job (and by implication, you would) was a last straw.

    5. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Was this your word for word approach to the junior Teapot assistant or is this a paraphrasing? While I understand this wasn’t your intent, it reads like you conveyed to them that they shouldn’t expect to get the position because of their lack of experience.

      1. FluffyWaffle*

        I’m paraphrasing, I understand it could have been condescending. That wasn’t my intention but I definitely understand. I’m also autistic so that part of my brain thinks I’m just pointing out facts, and how could facts possibly be offensive.

        1. WellRed*

          Facts are frequently offensive when they apply to humans, especially if it’s not something they can change, and you point them out: “you’ll probably need to buy an extra airplane seat because you are so fat.” See what I mean, factual but rude, hurtful and unhelpful.

      2. FluffyWaffle*

        I’m trying to paraphrase for brevity.

        I understand what you are saying. I guess I was wrong.

        I’m really hurt, I want to hand in my notice. If I’m at a job where I’m offending people I’m in the wrong place.

        1. JustaTech*

          Whoa, hey!
          Yes, you said the wrong thing in the moment. But you didn’t say it out of thin air. You said it because your coworker kept bringing up the competitiveness thing!

          Before you hand in your notice, why don’t you try apologizing “I’m sorry, I should not have said that about us both applying for the open position, I realize it was condescending that was wrong and I am sorry.”
          Then, depending on how they respond to that, you can say something about how your day-to-day work is not a competition and how *you* don’t feel like you are competing.

          Also depending on how the coworker takes your apology you can let your boss know “hey, I apologized to [Coworker] – I was in the wrong and I own that.”

          And then (this is the hardest part!) let it go. Even if they’re still weird about it. Be professional, be courteous, be collaborative, but don’t beat yourself up or keep apologizing.

          You probably won’t ever have an amazing relationship with this coworker, but that’s partly on them for making the whole thing a competition in the first place.

        2. Sara K*

          Imagine me saying this in a very gentle tone because I think it’s clear that this incident has been a blow to you and you feel bad about it.

          Your thinking about this is very black and white. You stated that you thought your colleague was friendly but now you don’t trust them and won’t speak to them anymore except about work things. You are also saying that you feel like you should leave this job. This is a very disproportionate reaction to what happened.

          You made a comment to your colleague that came across to them in a way you did not intend. Your colleague complained about this comment to your boss. Your boss has brought this to your attention. Now you haven’t said exactly what your boss has asked you to do but I am assuming that your boss wants to make sure that you don’t make the same error of judgement again. This is feedback for you to action so you can course correct your interactions with your colleague.

          Lots of people have given you reasons why what you said might have been interpreted differently from what you intended and explained why your colleague might have been upset and offended by it. Now that you have an explanation there are things you can do to make sure it doesn’t happen again. There have been some good suggestions already in the comments but I would also say that a thing you could do is be curious about why your colleagues feels like they are in competition with you. If they same something again you could ask “Why do you feel that we are in competition? I’m trying to understand because I don’t feel that way at all.” By getting more insight into your colleague’s thinking you will have even more information to guide you in your future interactions.

  44. New Fed*

    I’ve been interviewing for a job that has a 4 day work week.. which means long days (plus a long-ish commute) but Fridays off.
    Anyone been on that schedule and how did it go for you? This is generally office work with some time in the field/community.
    I’m concerned about leaving the house before dark for the early start time and just generally being exhausted by the end of the day.
    But, Fridays off! And it’s a job in a very scary environment right now..

    1. Goldie*

      We do this schedule in the summer. There are pros and cons. A lot depends on the kind of work you do. If you have kids, it can be really long days for the kids in child care. If you work at a desk a lot, it can make for a long day, more injuries, etc. But Fridays off are glorious.

    2. spcepickle*

      I highly suggest making sure you take your lunch away from your desk. I also suggest taking your lunch a little late. So if you start at 7 take your lunch at noon or even 1 so your day is more than half done. I find it easier to start early so I leave my house in the dark than coming home in the dark if that is an option for you. Even if I get home with only half an hour of daylight getting outside in some daylight as soon as I get home was critical for me.

    3. cat herder*

      I would absolutely love that schedule (assuming it’s 4 10s). You don’t have much of a life outside work on your workdays, but you have more days off with zero work, so it’s a win in my book. You’re already there, what’s 2 more hours if you’re probably tired when you get home anyway?

      Ha, I just re-read “concerned about leaving the house before dark”. … If you’re in the US, you must not be in a northern state. :) no shade, just observation!

    4. New Fed*

      Unfortunately I am in a Northern State and in Winter I am l looking at leaving home in the dark and getting home after dark. Which, honestly, even at a regular 9-5 that’s pretty much the case in December… but this would extend it through most of the winter.
      Good advice about not eating at your desk, and maybe trying to find some movement through the day. I would be worried about getting sore/stiff with the extended computer time.

    5. HBJ*

      Depends on the person. I’ve never done it, but my husband absolutely loved it. He’d have that schedule at every job if he could.

  45. Rara Avis*

    In your opinion, who should pay for the rescheduled class in this hypothetical situation? An employee misses a class for a required certification by misreading the end time as the start time and showing up two hours late for a 2 hour 15 minute class. However, the employee lacked accurate information because they never received any confirmation or reminder emails about the class because HR misspelled their name in their email address when registering them. (In reality, the provider waived their fee — they usually charge full price for rescheduling without 24-hour notice.)

    1. Rick Tq*

      HR dept should be charged, they were at fault for not confirming the email address of the employee, and probably not following up when the confirmation and reminder emails bounced.

    2. H.C.*

      In this situation, I would extend benefit of doubt to employee and have company covered costs of rescheduling, given there was error on HR’s end too and employee never received any subsequent communications.

    3. JustKnope*

      The company, even if the error had been 100% only the employees fault. It’s still a business expense.

      1. Saturday*

        Fully agree. When you hire someone, you sometimes have to pay for their work-related mistakes.

    4. fhqwhgads*

      Company should pay regardless of “fault”. If HR registered them in the first place, this is a thing the employee was doing for the employer, not on their own. Ergo, it’s a business expense. Even if the employee screws it up, still a business expense. If it’s part of a pattern of flakiness on the employee’s part you could fire them over it, but that’s separate from who pays for the class.

  46. Can't Sit Still*

    A colleague is out on bereavement leave because their adult child passed away. Please give me advice on what to say and what not to say when they return. I tend to babble under stress and I really don’t want to put my foot in my mouth.

    1. MsM*

      Remember that it’s okay to just leave things at “I’m so sorry for your loss.” Maybe “let me know if there’s anything I can do to make your transition back into the office easier,” if you feel the need to expand on that.

    2. cathy*

      Don’t feel like you can’t mention their child- a lot of people think they’re sparing the parents pain, but people who have lost a kid appreciate when the kid is remembered (vs acting like they never existed.)

      (Disclaimer- I do not have first hand experience losing a kid.)

    3. JustKnope*

      Less is more if the alternative is babbling! Be warm, be helpful and accommodating, ask how they’re doing – but that’s mostly it.

    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      As others have said be kind and say if there’s anything they need help with or anything you can do for them. But try to be as normal as you can be with them. It might be nice to try and think ahead on what they could need help with. Often times people don’t even know what they may need. Obviously you don’t want to overstep. If you work on the same client you could say something like “I can take over XYZ for a few weeks if that helps.”

    5. StressedButOkay*

      Having gone through this (as an adult sister), the best thing you can do is offer sympathy and, if you’re comfortable, an offer to help with things work related if they need it. Follow their lead on how they deal with the loss – I know a former co-worker had lost two sisters in a car accident and his parents never spoke of the sisters again, it was too hard on them. My family speaks of my sister daily, even in the immediate grieving period.

    7. Busy Middle Manager*

      Use vague statements like “let me know if you need anything” or “my door is open if you need to vent or want to ask for coverage” without eye contact then move on. Don’t go for “a moment”

      They’ve been consoled and discussing the event non-stop for days or weeks and don’t want to keep discussing it.

      Hang in there!

    8. HannahS*

      When you first see them, “Oh, Alex–you’re back. I was so sorry to hear of your loss. Let me know if I can help with any of the XYZ reports, OK? I don’t want you to feel slammed on your first few days back.” Say it warmly, casually, calmly, and then leave and go on with your day.

    9. tabloidtainted*

      You just say, “I’m really sorry and if there’s anything I can take off your plate, I’m ready.”

      You can also send them an email. When I was on bereavement I received emails from three colleagues and I’ll always remember that. I’ll also always remember who mentioned it at all! It meant a lot to me.

    10. Higher-ed Jessica*

      I’ve heard a lot of people say that they really didn’t want all their coworkers coming at them with in-person condolences, because (a) that would constantly drag them into super painful conversations at unexpected moments when they might already be struggling to hold it together, and (b) they were trying to compartmentalize and focus on work at work and be their Rational Professional Self Who Is Definitely Not Sobbing Uncontrollably, and it undermined that. So maybe a card or email would be better than in-person.

      Also, I think when you’re the one trying to figure out what to say, you’re focusing on yourself and trying to get your own individual response right. But when I lost a near relative, what made an impression on me was less the individual responses (though some did), but more the sum of all of them together, the feeling that my coworkers collectively cared, that I had a community coming together to hold me up. All you have to do to be a part of that is say _something_, and don’t say anything awful. You don’t have to be right here, you just have to be non-wrong (and doing/saying nothing is a way of being wrong).

    11. allathian*

      I’m sorry for your colleague’s loss.

      When my close coworker (we have the same job descrription) lost an adult stepchild (they’d never lived in the same household) and went on leave for a week, he only told our manager and me because he felt we needed to know (we don’t have bereavement leave but people can and do take sick leave, anything from a few days to a month), but not the rest of the team because he didn’t want to deal with the constant condolences.

      When he got back to work, I volunteered to take some of the more onerous tasks we usually share off his plate for a few weeks.

  47. Anon because this might be too identifying*

    Anyone use mapping software? I need to create a very simple map – just something that shows different districts in a region (similar to a large city divided in ZIP codes). I have access to ArcGIS but I don’t know how to use it. I’m going through some tutorials, but the more I dig, the more it seems like the wrong tool. I don’t need to map any particular data, I just want to color code different sections using streets as boundaries, and flag a few points of interest. Any suggestions?

    1. KayDeeAye*

      I used to use Map Maker. I can’t really recommend it because I haven’t had to use it for years, but it used to be really good and easy to use. I see they have Map Maker Pro these days – I wonder if there’s a free trial of some sort?

    2. Angstrom*

      Could it be as simple as using something like Photoshop to fill in the colors you want?

    3. Marz*

      I know this is late, but yeah, it might not be the right tool – it is doable, you could basically “draw” shapes on top of the map if you want, but it wouldn’t be clean/easy. The points of interest would be relatively easy to do but if you don’t have a layer/file of the “sections” you’re trying to color-code, it will be annoying at best to do. If you do have a layer/file of the sections, it might be the right tool, just go to attributes, find the metadata column you want to color code by, and do it in there.

  48. Anxious US trans academic*

    US-based, US-citizen transgender academic here. I’ve been considering a move out of academia into some kind of industry for a few years, but with current political situation, I am at 99% confidence I will leave. I’m looking for insight into how to make the transition with what’s happening and whether emigrating is realistically a better idea.

    To summarize: my spouse and I are both academics, both tenured, but we have been living and working in different states for years. They are a purplish (to red?) state, I’m in a blue one.

    But I dislike my job (admin, teaching parts–love the research). And I can’t do distance anymore for my mental health. I have some prior experience outside of academia in data analysis and also editing.

    I’m in a humanities field. I have a leave to take up a competitive research gig in another country for a semester, after which time it’s expected (not contractually required?) that I stay for another semester. I’m looking forward to that, but nervous about putting off job searching for a year (who knows what the US economy will be like).

    I lived overseas for a while and am a bit regretful that I moved back–I know that life can be different/better, but have no idea how to job search in another country for a non-academic job. Plus, tenured spouse.

    Oh, and all my legal documents are in order, I “pass” as cisgender, but there is a time limit on my passport gender marker going kaput, unless things change–so I’m feeling some pressure there.

    So, how stuck am I? It’s a bit overwhelming.

    1. Goldie*

      That sounds really complicated and I am sorry our government is being such an asshole to you right now.
      Do you know what you want to do? I would focus on getting additional training and certifications that are possible now. That could help you network too. And just start networking too. You can do that online if needed. I am thinking project management certifications, if you are doing research, getting certifications in research software, probably some AI classes and certifications if they are available.
      Talk to people you know, maybe attend some conferences. That is how I would go about it.
      Again, you deserve better. I am hoping that it will change for the better soon.

      1. Anxious US trans academic*

        Thanks for the suggestions and kind words. I am not totally sure what I want to do, though I am one course shy of a certification relevant to the areas I mentioned earlier. Mostly, I want a job that doesn’t feel like it’s actively promoting harm and, maybe, one that’s meaningful (could be non-profit work, but wouldn’t need to be). I think we could even manage with me working part-time, at least for a while.

        How difficult do you think it would be to get a job in one state while living and teaching in another? I guess that’s part of my concern. It seems like, whatever happens, I probably won’t be able to go seamlessly from one job to the other (I can’t really announce my search on LinkedIn without also giving notice, since it would get back to my department).

        1. Pickles*

          Definitely not impossible to get a job in another state. Use your spouses address and include in your cover letter that you are planning to move.
          As a 25 year nonprofit staffer, I would do some networking even ask for an informational interview with nonprofits you are interested in. There are always entry level opening in nonprofits. If you are talented and work hard you can move up quickly. Also consider doing volunteer work in a nonprofit to get experience.

          1. Anxious US trans academic*

            Thanks for the advice about the cover letter! I’ve actually just started volunteering for a nonprofit. It’s hard to fit in with my other responsibilities, but maybe even a little will be enough to get my foot in the door somewhere. I’ll see if I can’t get some informational interviews closer to my planned exit date.

            Glad to know I’m maybe not as stuck as it feels.

            1. Pickles*

              Let the people you are volunteering with know what your career aspirations are and your timeline. If I had a volunteer who had some time and wanted to learn the business, I would definitely show them the ropes.
              Good for you-you are taking the steps to move to the next level. It’s going to get better but I’m so sorry you are going through this it is so unfair

    2. Facs*

      were you born in the US? our son was able to get a new birth certificate in our state (and I know every state is different so please dont yell at me) so he is safe passport wise. no expiration

      1. Anxious US trans academic**

        Yes, born in the US and my birth certificate has long been changed to reflect the correct gender marker. But when I renew my passport, the US will change it, unless the courts manage to intervene. So I would be forced to disclose being trans if I travel internationally (or relocate).

        (Basically, imagine a feminine woman with an “M” on her passport or a masculine man with an “F.”)

  49. Dazzling!*

    Anyone in academia just scared right now? I’m IT staff, not faculty, at a small state school. Every single day I wake up more and more anxious that something will happen. Our specific department is well funded by alumni donors, but it’s so hard to say “My department is fine, business as usual” while others are taking budget cuts or campus closures. I also left a horrible albeit stable-ish corporate environment for this job, right before all the chaos began. How do I keep going into work, but not spiraling into despair? I can’t job hunt because I love my team and my sign on bonus has to be refunded if I leave before a year.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I hear you. I’m at a state university and I’m very lucky that our department is a critical need on campus (Counseling & Testing). We are funded directly through student’s fees. There are some things we have had to change in regards to D&I (which was from state negotiations a few years ago and not from current administration.)
      What really is concerning is the departments that we work with, like multicultural student support and international education. Those departments are under extreme scrutiny and I’m afraid that if some of the DEI programs are lost we will end up taking in more students, and we may not have the capacity to do so, leaving students who have mental health needs in the lurch.

    2. Anxious US trans academic*

      I posted just before you, and yes (see pseudonym!). I’m concerned for my international colleagues (staff and faculty) and students, for people working in “DEI”-adjacent fields, and people whose funding is tied to government grants. I am struggling a lot, but most of my colleagues are not talking about it. I think it’s too much to process on the daily.

    3. Dr. Doll*

      You got a signing bonus in academia? Wow, yay you!

      You are in very, very good company being anxious in academia right now. The best thing you can do is appreciate that your position is likely okay and be an awesome, responsive, kind, calm colleague to those who are so stressed that they are not able to be calm, kind, etc. Keep the “situation” conversations short: “My dept seems okay for now. What can I do to help you best?”

      You seem like an empathetic person, which is why I’m focusing on how you relate to others as an antidote to despair. For handling the free floating atmospheric anxiety, all the usual boring-but-crucial: exercise, food, hydration, sleep, relationships, careful news consumption. Hang in there.

  50. Merry go round and round*

    I know the general stance on exit interviews, but I’m curious. My direct boss is the head of HR so her boss (Anew senior manager) will be conducting my exit interview. I am being replaced by my employee who will probably face some of the struggles I have faced, and I wonder if its worth giving a watered down version of the pain points to him, in hopes that his newness and interest in making changes can be influenced to make things better for her or even others in our organization.

    I have loved working here enough that I will be staying on part time per diem, and I am not thinking of saying anything that would effect my staying on… But I have been made aware that senior management is very concerned recently about any long term employees leaving (I’ve been here 15 years) several have left in the last couple years, and I wonder if this adds up to a more open situation for sharing.

    1. The teapots are on fire.*

      I think if they haven’t been interviewing long-term employees while they are still there to see how they can keep them, their concern is rather casual.

  51. Blue wall*

    Books or blogs about *how* to write a thesis/term paper? How to approach the question, do research, put the paper together, etc?

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I like How to Write a BA Thesis: A Practical Guide from Your First Ideas to Your Finished Paper by Charles Lipson and The Productive Graduate Student Writer: How to Manage Your Time, Process, and Energy by Jan E. Allen.

    2. WellRed*

      I used to love the Barney Guides to writing about ( literature, warmer etc). Not sure they are still published.

    4. Lurker*

      This is a question of how to write according to research methods. This is going to be formatted as any peer reviewed research paper that you do. You have a hypothesis, a research method, analysis and results.

    5. Shepherd Moon*

      “Complete your dissertation or thesis in two semesters or less” by Evelyn Hunt Ogden is great. I told a seven-years-in colleague about it and he finished up in six months!

  52. PTQ*

    Any physical therapists here?

    How “touchy feely” do you get with your patients? Im not talking about gentle massaging or clinical care – Im talking about hugging, pats on the back, etc.

    Also, how emotional invested do you get in your patients?

    I recently worked with a PT for the first time. Overall, it was a great experience and I learned a lot. I really liked my PT, both professionally and personally. We seemed to click and he made the time together fun.

    As time went on, he started getting more touchy – a fist bump here, rub on the shoulder, etc. On my last day, he took me by surprise and hugged me. He had tears in his eyes and made a comment how much he was going to miss me. I guess i am wondering if thats normal, or if there was something more going on.

    1. SansaStark*

      I’m not a PT but I work with them a lot in my profession and they are a lot more comfortable with physical touch in the workplace than any other profession I’ve ever worked with (which makes sense given the nature of their job), but then I kept reading your letter and I guess it’s possible that that guy truly had nothing underlying what he did/said, but that is a LOT of boundary-pushing. And ultimately, the thing that matters is that you felt uncomfortable.

    2. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I’ve done three courses of PT in my life, and never had a touchy feely PT like that.

    3. fhqwhgads*

      Occasional fist bumps – especially if you hit some sort of milestone – normal. The rest? Not normal.

    4. Plate of Wings*

      I was surprised how touchy-feely the one PT I went to was! Probably because of the nature of his job. He was around my age and married to a man but I guess he could have been bisexual, it didn’t feel inappropriate so I didn’t really speculate.

      Tears though? No. But I’ve heard that PTs get more emotionally invested in younger patients if they mostly work with elderly populations.

      It doesn’t matter if I felt my touchy-feely PT was appropriate, it sounds like YOU were uncomfortable. Nature of the job be damned.

  53. Lizy*

    Raise / promotion question…
    tl;dr how do I bring this up to my boss?

    At the end of last year, my boss took a new/higher position. The writing on the wall was that a lot of our department’s tasks would be automated (or at least much more streamlined) so the move made sense. I knew I would be taking on more of her tasks – good, fine, whatever. Early this year (Jan or Feb – I can’t remember), she met very briefly with me and basically said that, assuming I can do the job, we’ll talk about a raise in a couple of months.

    I can do the job. I’m always down for more money. I know my boss makes at least 2x what I do, but she has more experience and credentials that I do not have and won’t have. Still… I don’t want to be doing a large part of her job without a large chunk of change lol. We just got a message from HR that we’re doing Q2 check-ins over the next few weeks, so obviously that’s the time to bring it up, but … how???? I’m sure I’m overthinking this.

    I’ve had stellar reviews, maxed out raises in the past, and taken on a ton more than my job description. (Actually, I looked and my job description doesn’t remotely describe what I actually do now…) Help!

    1. JustKnope*

      The job description thing actually gives you a great opening here! Since it doesn’t match right now AND you might be taking on a lot more responsibilities, use the Q2 review as an opportunity to ask to revisit your JD, and therefore your title/compensation.

    2. YesterdaysOP*

      OP from the promotion negotiation letter yesterday – this is perfect timing for you to bring it up! You can talk about how things have been going and how you’ve settled in, how you’re looking forward to growing in the role, and that you’d like to take the opportunity to revisit your compensation given the expanded scope. You’ve got this!

    3. AI Don't Wanna*

      Did you read the salary negotiation post on AAM earlier this week? If not, some great examples in there!

  54. keylimepi*

    How do I best support a partner who is un/underemployed? He works in tech and was laid off a few months ago. He’s gotten a few short term freelancing projects since then, but no steady employment yet. I know it’s weighing heavily on him and don’t want to add to his stress, but I’m *also* stressed and worried about our finances! Anyone know how to be the supportive partner whose income doesn’t quite cover the bills on her own?

    1. cat herder*

      Oof, I feel this. My partner is on unpaid medical leave right now and works in the trades (think, construction) and he doesn’t receive any kind of disability income. So I am keeping us afloat 100% for the foreseeable future. I work a white collar job but do not make 6 figures, so not having his income definitely hurts. We see the silver lining in spending more time at home together (and thinking up free/cheap/easy date ideas that he can physically handle), and that he’s able to get healthy.

      Have you offered to polish/proofread your partner’s resume? Also, get really familiar with what he’s interested/willing to do next for work (job titles, responsibilities), and do a little of your own research on job postings (when you have time). My partner and I took turns being laid off at different junctures last year (melting face emoji), and job hunting is freaking exhausting, so those are some ways you can show him he’s not alone. Sending good vibes your way!!

    2. WellRed*

      Is he getting unemployment and have you two had a conversation about how to manage expenses during this period? I know that’s not quite what you asked but if you can manage some of your anxiety it would help you be supportive.

  55. Somehow I manage*

    How do you deal with a workplace thats headed for disaster? And what reason should you give during interviews on when they ask why you left?

    I work for a small company. I have been here over a year. During this time, what once seemed like stable company has had numerous leadership changes, financial instability and mismanagement. People and depts are generally ignoring processes and procedures and going rogue. The people that are still here are generally anxious, and some have gotten downright nasty. My internal client is horrible – and the entire company knows it. People are shocked I have lasted as long as I have.

    I am looking for a new role. However, I am almost to the point of leaving with nothing lined up. I have been burnt out for years and am in desperate need of a reset. However, i am not sure what to say when i will inevitably be asked why i left the org. Has anyone else dealt with this? Thanks in advance.

    1. SunnyShine*

      I left when my company was sold. They hired people with high school degrees to do the work of scientists.

      Interviewers didn’t ask me why I left. They asked why I was interested in them. So I gave a short, “The company sold. I’m looking for more opportunities to expand and grow my career. There wasn’t a lot of job movement or project work. I’m looking for more.”

  56. Balancing act..*

    Hey folks!
    So as a manager I am clear that we shouldn’t/can’t change someone’s work in a way that would be effectively a demotion due to health issues. I think that’s reasonable and a good protection to have in place.

    I am currently struggling to work out how best to balance it with project needs in a way that doesn’t result in other employees having to scramble last minute.

    Context: an employee has struggled with mental health for a while. They had a few weeks off last year, and a period of not great productivity leading up to and after that. They say one of the reasons they’re struggling is not feeling ownership over work and not feeling like they’re getting progression opportunities leads to being demotivated (& it’s fair to say we’d planned to give them more new things to do & that was delayed for reasons – reasonable ones but their development could have been higher priority than it was, in hindsight). Some deliberate vagueness!

    So – we’ve lined up a project where they could more explicitly take the lead and own it. This has hard deadlines with $$$ attached. At the point where they were just about to start they’ve now let us know they need to take more time off for mental health. It’s unclear at this point how much time off, or how productive they will be when there are in work.

    I don’t want to throw the plan completely up in the air if getting this more interesting work will in theory improve their mental health (& legally, that feels shaky if all the info I have so far is they might take a few days off). I also don’t want to go in eyes shut & assume they’ll be working at top capacity because I expect they won’t be, & then either we fuck up & the company loses a deal OR I’m putting pressure on other members of my team to scramble and pull the project out of the bag at the last minute.

    Any guidance appreciated. (I’m sort of expecting some people to think we’re being far too nice & others to think we’re being terribly unreasonable :) but I am interested to see which!

    1. Quinine..I need quinine*

      It sounds like the employee isn’t ready to be leading a project at this stage, especially one of this importance (i think it’s important?)

      You don’t even know if and when he’ll be working, and there are deadlines.. I don’t see how he could effectively work on, let alone lead this project

    2. TCO*

      I wouldn’t be surprised if your employee thinks/hopes that new projects will fix things only to find out there’s still an underlying problem or mismatch. I’ve been in this situation before and there’s not always a real fix if, in their mind, the job is already this bad for their mental health. That’s not just a switch that can be flipped and they’ll be suddenly fine in a slightly different version of the job.

      It’s a chicken-or-egg situation, but your job is to look out for the business and your customers. You can’t fix your employee’s mental health for them, and you can’t accommodate them past what it’s feasible for you to do. If the employee ends up being out for a significant time, will any other staff harm their own health by scrambling to fill in on an important project?

  57. NN*

    (Tw: suicide of family member)
    How do I keep in contact with old coworkers when I feel like everything is going to circle back to my father’s suicide?

    Some months ago, I was happy to return to a job that I knew wanted me back, but after my father’s death, I changed my mind. After my father’s death I want to take better care of my (mental, but also physical) health, and I had the feeling that this job did not exactly work for me in that regard. New job has a constant 9 to 18 schedule instead of morning, afternoon and night shifts, sometimes several in the same work-week; lots of down-time, time to eat and go to the bathroom without worrying about clients suddenly appearing and finding an empty front desk. I want to keep in touch with my old coworkers, and kind of promised to visit them from time to time… however, I feel like I have no good answer to questions about why I turned down the job, or how to explain how much I miss them and the old job, but I still think this one is better for me, at least for now. Specially to my ex-boss, who I have the feeling that would not understand why I am turning down a 4* hotel for a 1* one. It feels unprofessional, or at least muddy territory, to say that I worry about ending up like my father, so I am trying to give me as much stability as possible for the time being. They know my father died right after my contract with them ended, but they are not aware of the how, and I would prefer to not talk about it, but every conversation path seems to circle back to that…

    1. AI Don't Wanna*

      There would have been nothing wrong with taking the job that’s right for you, even if you hadn’t had your father’s death to deal with! And I think that for a lot of people, having a feeling of a predictable schedule is a huge perk — there are tons of studies that indicate that workers who feel they have more agency are happier. (I know that I definitely felt happier when, years ago, I moved from a retail job with a shifting schedule to an administrative job with predictable work hours!)

      What if you said something like, “I miss you all, because you’re awesome, but the schedule of the new job ended up being a better fit for me”? Certainly you could also tell them as much as you’re comfortable with telling them regarding your father, if you want them to know what happened — but it is really completely okay to have one job just be a better fit than another, and I don’t think you have to justify it beyond that.

    2. WellRed*

      “I just needed a change and this job suits me for right now.” ( feel free to shorten to just needed a change). But also, cut the strings a bit. It’s great to keep in touch but no need to go visit.

    3. Merry Go Round and Round*

      I’m so sorry about your father, I lost my brother the same way and it also had a dramatic effect on how I think about work, and life. I’m a year and a half out, and starting a new job this week in part because I am afraid of what would happen if I didn’t. I think you can say “I’ve been reassessing my needs since my father passed, and even though I miss the work and the team, I need the steady schedule new job is providing me right now.”

  58. Retirement*

    so, how do you know when to retire? I’m healthy, no debt, and in a medically undeserved area. children are all educated and launched. spouse is healthy and retired. I’m the only specialist in my field here. I have a well paid and talented staff of all of 2 persons. does the light switch just flip? spouse decided one summer and left end of year. I created my practice 15 years ago. if I go my specialty is gone for the area. any thoughts? I’m trying to read and seeing a good counselor.

    1. A Reader*

      Sell your business/practice to another specialist who will take your place in that office, then retire!

      1. The teapots are on fire.*

        That may not be realistic in a medically underserved area. There may be no one in that specialty who wants to live there. This is sadly common.

    2. Owatagoosiam*

      how about selling your business and then retiring? that way the locality will still receive the benefit of the medical services you provide.

    3. Anon4this*

      Can you cut your hours or time or sell your practice to another elsewhere? Is there a medical website where those in your field could buy you out?

      My partners cousin did this as he was working in a big city, hated it and wanted to move close to his hometown (a Midwestern state). He ended up buying a practice and is so much happier.

      If you can’t is it possible to only work PT?

    4. The teapots are on fire.*

      I think you’ll know when you need to go. I realize selling enticing someone to take over your practice in an underserved area is easier said than done, but unless you can wind down your practice to part time, there is a point where you’ll just know you are ready to enjoy your retirement.

  59. Tracey*

    I’ve been trying to find a new job since October, and haven’t gotten any interview requests.

    I work in digital marketing in-house (specifically paid search/SEM) and am mid-level, think digital marketing manager/sr. specialist/sr. analyst rather than junior or director level. In 2023, I had no issues getting interviews, but it’s completely different now. My resume matches the jobs, so I don’t know where the disconnect is from.

    I’m uploading my resume and cover letter as PDF, and have checked that there aren’t weird formatting issues when uploaded. I’m looking in the United States – remote.

    1. Jan Levinson Gould*

      Remote is at least one of the issues. Supply has shrunk and demand has surged for remote roles. Competition is now fierce.

    2. Anon4this*

      You need to start looking for in office and hybrid jobs. Remote are hard to come by and remote jobs have a lot more applicants.

      Diversify where you look- also looo at comms roles. Any former colleagues you can contact and network with?

  60. AI Don't Wanna*

    I am am looking for a polite way to opt out of a meeting that I think really could be an email — but for an all-volunteer organization that I volunteer for, rather than for a job that I’m paid for.

    Let’s say, hypothetically, that in my spare time I’m volunteering on a project for the Chocolate Teapot Appreciation Society where we have the opportunity to select some rare teapot varieties for curation, and the leader of the project wants to schedule a meeting where each of us presents our lists of selections. I love this volunteer group, but I am having a lot of Zoom fatigue right now (plus meetings where information is revealed in the meeting rather than distributed ahead of time have long been a major pet peeve of mine in a professional context, and I’m trying not to replicate that issue in my volunteer commitments).

    I’m thinking of saying, “My schedule is pretty spotty at the moment, but I’d be happy to send along my teapot list and defer to the choices that the rest of the group makes.” If other people have suggestions/scripts for how they’d handle this, I’d love to hear them!

    2. Sloanicota*

      I think your script is good! If you get pushback just emphasize that your schedule is packed and you’d love to tackle this off line or synchronously. I’m on a church board with people who love to meet and I constantly have to opt out, but it’s fine. I do defer to whatever are made when I’m absent, obviously.

    3. Always spinning*

      I like to tell people that my schedule is very challenging right now so please don’t try to schedule around me. I’ll make it to the meeting if I can (I won’t), but will send my contributions if I am unable to join. I’m looking forward to seeing everyone’s selections!

  61. Soon-to-be HR*

    Anyone have advice about studying for the SHRM-CP? I’m in the process of shifting my position to more of an HR role (currently I’m doing admin/operational work). My boss is very supportive, but we’re a federally funded nonprofit, so I don’t think it’s the right time to ask about getting SHRM’s online learning system (it’s over $1000). Do you have recommendations for books or other lower-cost materials that would help?
    Tbh, I’m not sure how much the actual certification itself will be useful to me unless I start applying for other jobs–that’s a definite possibility if things go further south with our funding, but I’d love to stay at my current org for now. However, the process of studying for the test might give me broader familiarity with HR best practices.

    1. Yes And*

      When I took the SHRM-CP a couple of years ago, I did use the online learning system. If you join SHRM, the member’s discount on the learning system pays for the membership. (And the membership itself is useful – I’ve been able to save my company some money by referring general HR practice questions to SHRM instead of to our labor attorneys.)

      One thing I was surprised by, though: The SHRM exam was very light on the nitty-gritty of HR best practices (how do you conduct and investigation? what is the difference between level-funded and self-funded medical plans? how do you file a 5500?) and heavy on B-school organizational theory (change management, motivation factors, “global minset,” etc.). The SHRM materials prepared me well for the exam, but they didn’t do much to prepare me to actually work in HR. If you want the certification to bulk up your resume, by all means, go for it; but don’t expect it to make you better at the day-to-day of your job.

      1. Soon-to-be HR*

        I am a SHRM member as well as a member of my local chapter; thankfully, my org paid for my membership right before all the federal funding chaos started. The cost of the LMS is pretty steep even with the discount though, especially since our funding is less certain at this point. That is useful advice, though–thanks!

    2. Mojo021*

      I would recommend purchasing the books/online learning system. I found that when I read the books there is a pattern to what process and steps should be taken. This is SHRM specific and not necessarily what would happen in real life scenario’s so when you’re testing keep that in mind. Because I was able to answer the “harder” questions I didn’t get as many of the easier/knowledge questions. I do agree with Yes And that most of it is not applicable to the day to day work of HR. I would ask to shadow as much as you can with a senior member of the team to learn more about the inner workings of HR.

  62. Chirpy*

    I just got a raise…

    34 CENTS

    I got a handshake for pretty consistently doing nearly 1/3 of the total replenishments *for the entire store* though. I have been in the top 10 for the whole company.

    Would be nice for them to actually pay me like they value my work….if my lease renewal gets rejected it will 100% be because of this job, and then I’ll be moving back with my parents in another city because they don’t pay me enough to live on. I need a better job so badly…

    1. WFH4VR*

      Wow. That beats my $1.24 cent per hour raise a couple of years ago, which led to me telling my manager that I would quit unless they opened their wallet for something more reasonable. Are you in a position to do that? Sorry you work for such jerks.

  63. Anne G.*

    I guess I’m just posting this to continue the discussion, but I was a bit surprised by some of the comments on the Gen Z thread. I had remarked to another user that it is pretty normal to resent having to work, only to hear that many people genuinely enjoy their jobs. For me, although I am not Gen Z, I’ve always hated the idea I have to work to survive. If I could have picked between working and being rich enough not to work, I’d pick being rich every time. But alas I was not born rich, so instead I have to spend a not insignificant part of my day working. It’s frustrating and I cannot see how anyone enjoys this system.

    1. Head Sheep Counter*

      If I won the lottery – I’d still find a job. It would become more of a volunteer situation but having the structure to my day and interacting with more than my household is important to me. I like people. I like people watching and observing.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      My father (born pre-WWII) retired three times. He could have stayed retired after the first one, but his former employer really needed someone like him. They basically let him write his own rules, he got to do intellectually interesting work, I’m pretty sure he got at least one patent during his 2nd or 3rd stint, and he felt good about what he was doing for society.

      I’m early Gen X: if somebody dropped $10 million in my lap tomorrow, I would still want to be doing something productive. I’m constitutionally incapable of golfing or sitting on the beach every day. I worked really hard in college to master a difficult field of knowledge with a profound positive impact on the world, and if I decided to just *not* use it I would feel bad.

    3. WellRed*

      I think people can enjoy their work and still hate the system. I’m gen x and sick of working. Who The Fk decided to should work 8 hours a day, five days a week? And literally just sit around, hands to keyboard all day. And I can’t afford my own apartment at my age! Eff that! I have so much else I could be doing with my time that doesn’t involve tedious tasks and keeping up with emails m. I have a lot of sympathy for the younger crowd. They are onto something. All this said, I like my job but I’d quit in a heartbeat if I could.

      1. Alex*

        Same. I would say that I like my job, but not in a “I wouldn’t rather be doing something else” kind of way.

    4. Tea Monk*

      I also am not a work person! I like being useful but you can be useful without working 45 hours a week ( it’s easy for y’all for me it has me unable to do anything besides veg out after work)

    5. Chicken Pollo*

      If I won a few million I’d set up a charitable foundation or something like that just to keep my toe in the water in ‘work’ terms, but it would be a choice thing that I could change on a whim. I’ve yet to find a job I like so much that I’d say I enjoy it, and I am a touch envious of people who love their jobs, because it must feel better to enjoy where you go/what you do every day.

      I think having nothing to do but hobbies and sources of pure enjoyment would drive me crazy though…I think if everything was great then nothing is great. Maybe the grind and misery of a 9-5 we don’t love makes the rest of our lives richer? Maybe I’m trying to convince myself…

    6. Goldie*

      50 here, if I could comfortably retire now I would. But I do like my job and my career. I work in a nonprofit organization and I like contributing. Sometimes I prefer to be at work instead and dealing with cranky teenagers and doing housework. That said, I wouldn’t mind just doing whatever I feel like doing all of the time.

      Is there a system you can imagine where no one had to work? I don’t think I have ever imagined that I wouldn’t have to work in some way, so I have tried to make the best of it.

      Now I am caring for family member with dementia and learning how important doing things is for the brain as we age and probably throughout our lives. It is making me re-think my approach to retirement as it seems like being engaged with people is important to healthy aging.

      1. WellRed*

        Don’t want to derail but need to say your last sentence is so important! I’m seeing this with aunt who is a friendly person who’s always willing to to do something socially but us also very much a loner but very sedentary who’s happy to sit at home reading and doing sudoku etc. the decline is showing and has been for years but has picked up speed. I wish she would have stayed more engaged with others.

    7. Brevity*

      Well, there’s “work”, and then there’s work. Lots of people work in jobs that have nothing to do with desks and the 9 to 5 or retail. I know a lot of people in the environmental field, who LOVE LOVE LOVE their jobs despite not being paid very well because they’re outside all of the time, in nature. I know a whole lot of musicians, who love love love their jobs despite not being paid very well because they play their instruments all the time. I know a great deal of teachers who love their jobs because they love teaching.

      The common thread is that they’re not making millions, but they really are making enough to live on. I think you need to expand your idea of what work can actually be. I get it, if you had millions, you wouldn’t work — so what *would* you do all day? Go shopping? Then go be a buyer for a luxury department store. Play tennis? Go be a coach. Travel the world sampling vodka? Go be a travel writer and write a book about the world’s best vodka brands. It can be done.

      1. Chirpy*

        I think this right here is the problem. I can think of many jobs I’d enjoy – but they don’t pay enough to live on, and/or are so niche they’re impossible to get into.

        I really resent that I have to work a job I hate, and still don’t make enough to live on. But it just seems like all the goalposts keep moving to make “success” (a reasonably interesting job that supports a comfortable life) constantly out of reach.

        (Millennial here.)

    8. Rara Avis*

      I find fulfillment in my work and was more than ready to go back after a 7-month maternity leave.

    9. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I agree with you, Anne G!
      I’m a Boomer, retired several years now and my retirement years have been the best of my life – despite being single, childfree, no close family and lost the several friends I expected to grow old with (died before 60 plus 2 couples emigrated).
      I love my current life and I’m thriving physically and mentally with all the extra time and freedom, no more work stress)

      I was lucky in my career, especially the 30 years at FinalJob to have interesting & decently paid work, friendly coworkers, great flexibility. Despite all that, I would not have worked even 1 day in my life if I had been able to otherwise live comfortably – AND without relying on a partner. I worked only to live, but most US commenters seem far more emotionally invested in work than I’d expect. However, I kept my resentment locked away and didn’t brood, since it would have been unproductive.

      For me, the essentials for a happy and non-degenerating retirement are: comfortable income (obvious!), decent health, quiet Rhine are where I can walk for hours daily, hobbies (2 gyms) outside the home where I interact with others 6 days per week. I think it’s important not to just sit indoors and live life remotely, but that’s for any age.

    10. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      I want to be part of something bigger than myself. Would I like a system in which I could apportion the hours a bit differently? Sure. But the big things we need don’t just show up magically because someone has money. They require effort, time, resources, and that means people working (that word) in organizations that structure effort to achieve an end.

      The clean water that comes out of a rich person’s tap also comes out of everyone else’s tap (except in Flint, MI) thanks to the public works people at the water quality plant and the people making sure that when I flush, the sewer system keeps things moving. The maintenance crew in the local road department can feel good when they finish making a street surface nice and smooth (and I’m happier if they put in some bike lanes while they were at it). Feeling satisfaction at a job well done is real.

      It’s not that capitalism is an awesome system. I’d like a lot more justice, a lot less homelessness and hunger, more good and less bad for everyone. I’m incredibly fortunate; I can take satisfaction in knowing that the work I get paid to do moves us in a generally positive direction. If I won the lottery tomorrow I’d still want to be part of something bigger than myself. It might be in the volunteer realm, but nonprofit organizations run with work and jobs and paychecks and all the rest too. I don’t hear you saying you want things to be better for everyone and that’s why we need a different system, just that you wish you didn’t have to work. Being rich and playing while the world burns just isn’t in my DNA.

    11. Jess*

      It comes down to many factors including flexibility, WFH or close to home, enjoyable work and it paying enough to be able to afford a reasonable lifestyle (eg own home, meet physical needs, socialise, hobbies, travel etc)
      If I came into a large sum of $ I’d leave my job, increase the non paid work I do running a photography club and pick back up on the volunteering I did before. I’d totally flex this volunteer time around the increased social and hobby activities I’d take up!

  64. Yes And*

    The edict has come down from my company’s board to scrub all references to DEI from our public-facing materials and our employment materials (handbook, job descriptions, etc.). I’m senior staff, with some responsibility over the materials in question, but I’m not sure how much capital I have here. Does anybody have a playbook for stopping your company from complying with fascism in advance? What arguments can I make to my boss to not make this stupid, meaningless act of surrender?

    1. Tradd*

      You don’t have to answer – but I think it may really depend on your industry. Is your company visible to the federal government in any way and might be subject to retaliation? I’ve read others here commenting that the public stuff is being removed, but DEI policies are still in place internally.

      1. NotFascistSquid*

        Yep – my govt contractor employer has all internal policies still effectively in place. Wording has been modified in some areas, but not to an extent that they fundamentally change intent.

      2. Yes And*

        We are a NFP with a small amount of federal funding. But the agency that funds us will probably be shut down long before we ever come to federal attention as an individual org.

      3. Sloanicota*

        If nothing else, archive all the info and make it easy to restore, and if you have safer partners who can carry resources etc, transfer them over …

    2. NotFascistSquid*

      If you’re a federal contractor, you can’t (which is unfortunately the situation I find myself in).

      If you aren’t – it comes down to how much political capital you have and are willing to use here, and to what extent you are willing to risk your employment status. Board decisions require the board to walk them back.

    3. fhqwhgads*

      My experience with non-profits who dealt with already is: they’re scrubbing the literal phrase “DEI” (or DEAI) but not actually changing any policies or any actions. They ran all the language they’re keeping/changing to through their lawyers first.
      So I don’t think you have any argument to your boss to stop this particular act, but if the plan isn’t already to keep everything the same and just call it something else, I suggest using your capital to ensure that’s what happens.

      1. RagingADHD*

        My for-profit company did the same. No actual policies or programs are changing, just the names & descriptions. One of the attorneys explained in an all-hands that hostile investment firms & other types of partisan groups (not the actual government) are using web crawlers to find keywords in public documentation and target companies for PR attacks, so by removing the keywords we are buying time to fly under the radar.

        IDK exactly where he got this info, but I know the C-Suite has been bringing in a lot of consultants.

        The times we’re in are a balancing act between “don’t comply in advance” and “don’t put a target on your back,” because my company is the livelihood and a pretty safe place for a lot of marginalized people. They’re trying to not attract attention from the zombie horde.

    4. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Depending how much capital leadership has with the board, could they have a frank discussion about how far down that road they want to go and why they’d want to set foot on it voluntarily? What’s next, inviting ICE to review your employees’ IDs? How far is too far?

      You mention in a reply that the agency funding you is likely to shut down before your org would come to anyone’s attention. “What do we gain, what do we lose?” is a genuine question here. Losing your soul as an organization that presumably has been telling your employees you have values and goals is a path to losing staff, and losing funding from other sources that don’t agree with the federal mayhem.

      Do you have leadership that’s supportive of the concepts and values, just worried about being caught up in a keyword search and losing funding? If they don’t really want to do this, but don’t feel they can take on the board, explore the idea of rewriting to remove words without removing the intent. “We want all our employees to succeed and thrive” should still be true, right? “We’re stronger and better when our workforce reflects the people we serve.” “We’re committed to treating everyone who works here and everyone we serve with dignity, respect, and understanding that each of us brings a unique perspective and their own life experiences to our work.”

      Consider the value of replacing the specific words in the handbook and other publications with references to federal laws that really are still in place and that carry protections for at least some targeted identities. Be explicit about compliance with the requirements under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 if relevant for your organization, anything you can cite directly.

      I’d take advantage of the need to update materials by adding some things. Do you have language telling people how they could request a translation of key information, written in the target languages that are most common in your area? Add language about how they could interact with you via TTY if they’re deaf and you provide services or info via phone? Something about ADA accessibility? These kinds of statements are common for public agencies, less so for private sector/nonprofit.

      Reflecting on past threads about signage and bathrooms, do you have gender-neutral bathrooms or can you designate one as such with signage? That signals that you don’t only recognize a gender binary.

      What can you say about how you define family for purposes of sick leave or compassionate leave?

      In other words, can you magnify how you express, exemplify, and practice equity and inclusion without using those terms?

      For the job descriptions, some suggestions:

      – State that relevant experience can be from employment, volunteer activities, or lived experience.

      – Review your educational requirements. Are you using attainment of a specific degree as a proxy for knowledge, skills, and abilities? If you can lower that barrier to entry you can recruit a more diverse pool of applicants. List the KSA, require evidence that they have those (this is where the broader relevant experience list comes in handy), take degrees out of the minimum qualifications if you can.

      – Drop any requirements you have for a driver’s license unless the job itself actually requires driving. That’s a barrier to applicants who have a disability that prevents them from driving, or some other reason they can’t get a license. Deleting that sends a strong message.

      – Whether you do it officially as an organization, or if you have a role in recruitment and can make some choices, publicize your openings on job boards and professional organizations organized around demographics; their members will diversify your applicant pool. I’m in transportation; we send our job openings to a variety of professional groups like this, and pay for listings when we need to. Examples in our realm are groups like Latinos in Transit, COMTO (Conference of Minority Transportation Officials), National Society of Black Engineers.

      – Make bilingual proficiency a preferred qualification. In my work in a public agency it would be a definite advantage to be able to have someone on my team speaking any of the most widely used languages other than English so we could have them respond to a phone call or email. Any languages, really–we just paid for translation services in Farsi, which isn’t on the list of the top 7 in our language access program.

      It 1,000,000% sucks that you have to think about something that feels like retreat. How much can you turn it into an advance instead?

  65. Chicken Pollo*

    I’ve been offered a job that is 100% remote, as in there is no office at all, just a PO Box somewhere for bills. I was specifically looking for a fully remote role because I plan to move out of state over the Summer and I’m not sure exactly where to just yet (there’s no rule with the job that I have to stay in state, just stay in the country). The thing is I’ve never worked 100% remote before and I’m getting a bit antsy about working alone, at home, all of the time. This from an introvert who lives alone and loves her own company…..but work would usually be one of my few social outlets where I meet people and chit chat. I’ve been hybrid remote before and it’s been ok interspersed with days here and there in the office, but this will be a shift for me. Any tips to make the transition a smooth one/not go insane being by myself all the time?

    I should say I know 100% remote is the dream for a lot of people, myself included due to my upcoming big move. I took a hit on pay and benefits to accept this job because it’s fully remote.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I did full-time remote for quite some time. Also an introvert.

      Make sure you do stuff to enforce work/life balance. I keep my work computer in one room and my personal laptop in another – don’t cross the streams! I also try to take my lunch away from my desk.

      Do other stuff to get that random human interaction into your system. Go into a coffee shop for 15 minutes once a week mid-morning (don’t do drive through, don’t use the app – the point is to see and talk to other people). Take an afternoon walk so you can see neighbors out and about.

    2. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      Start volunteering somewhere. This is what I do. Also, prioritize your friendships. If they can, meet them for lunch during the week. If you’re into Discord, join some bigger servers that are aligned with your interests and chat with them throughout the day. If it works for you, go to some cute coffeeshops throughout the week and work from there for a couple hours.

    3. 653-CXK*

      I’ve been WFH for the past five years, with occasional forays into the office, and also an introvert. I work for a community health center that deals with the elderly.

      WFH has been a huge godsend and a tiny curse. The godsend is that my commute no longer exists, I punch in and out on my phone, I’ve been able to save tons of money from not spending it so much, I can do home chores like the laundry while working on a spreadsheet for another department, and I am far more productive at home than in the office.

      The tiny curse is that I’ve gotten so used to being at home that when I want to do things outside of it, I feel like I don’t have time to do them and they have to wait until the weekend. For example, when I was at ExJob, I could do errands, have lunch either at the cafeteria or one of the other shops, and have downtime between going from the office to home. At CurrentJob, my office and home is in a semi-isolated area (it’s about a 15 minute walk to the shops in each case), so having a leisurely lunch is an exercise in time management, especially walking back and forth.

      The other thing is going between offices. The commute each way by public transportation is about 45 minutes (compared to 1-1/2 to 2 hours at ExJob), so if I want to work from the office for a few hours, stop off for lunch, and then go home to finish the day, my boss is fine with it…until one day when I did, she panicked when she couldn’t reach me on Teams. (It was a minor thing, but the topic is something I would want to divulge to the people at the bus stop.) Now when I go between the offices, I put on my Teams message, “heading to office/home, will answer you when I get there.”

      To wit: Fully WFH has its benefits and some drawbacks, but I think you’ll enjoy it.

  66. Bluebonnet*

    I work in a small academic special collection library as a library information specialist (basically a librarian’s assistant).

    I have only worked there 1.5 years. Six months after I began this position, the librarian I worked under resigned. Therefore, I ran the place on my own for one year. One month ago, they hired a new librarian who is now my supervisor.

    This has been quite an adjustment for. I am used to having free range, but now need to work with them and ask permission on things. They have now been my supervisor for 1.5 months.

    Although I prefer to work on multiple projects throughout the day, my supervisor would prefer that I focus my tasks to see completion of my jobs. While this makes sense, I have been working on one project all day today and yesterday, and feel completely drained.

    Things are too monotonous and I feel stuck. I also feel like I no longer get to do the aspects of my job that I enjoy since the supervisor now does these.

    Would you have any tips on navigating this situation? If I talked to the supervisor, how should I frame things?

    Some extra info: the supervisor and I are cordial with one another but don’t naturally connect. I was familiar with them before they accepted the librarian position since their previous job was also with the same academic institution.

    1. Reba*

      I think 6 weeks is still very early in your working relationship, so don’t despair! You could ask your supervisor for a check in meeting maybe at 3 months, and talk about some of these issues.
      You could raise the task management thing with her — “with the way my brain works I feel I do better when I can change up tasks. Could we try it that way for a while? Is there something I need to do so you can see my progress on tasks?” Maybe you’ll learn that in the past she worked with someone who thought they were good as multitasking but weren’t, and she can change her view. Or, you might learn that she is rigid on this and you have to decide what to do at that point.

    2. Bike Walk Bake Books*

      Without knowing what kinds of projects these are, I’m wondering if the supervisor doesn’t want to have too many moving parts to keep track of so this is what works for their brain, although it doesn’t work for yours.

      Do you have regular 1/1 meetings to go over tasks, progress, and timelines? If not, whether it’s once a week or 15 minutes at beginning or end of the day, it seems to me it would be okay to suggest this. Setting some routines in place is better early than late so I wouldn’t wait another month and a half. They’re also only 1.5 months into this role. Something along these lines:

      “Since we’re both still settling into how we can work well together, it would help me if we schedule check-ins. When we meet I can give you a progress report on the primary project and we can look at what else I can also be handling. I find it energizing to be able to work on one thing for a while, then switch it up, then come back. That’s just how my brain works; everyone’s different. As long as I know the deadlines and where you need to review what I’m doing, I can stay on track. Can this work for you? How often and how long would you want these check-ins to be?”

      If you already have these meetings then I’d try the part about what you find energizing. Working on something different often jogs loose an idea for another project.

      This doesn’t address the parts you liked that aren’t in your job any more. I’d try one thing at a time and focus on being able to self-manage how many different things are on your to-do list. When they know your capabilities better they may be willing to hand some of those other things back.

  67. Emily*

    Hi, I need help.

    I’m an immigrant and have been working at a chip manufacturing company for the past seven years. Recently, a colleague I’ve had professional tensions with was promoted to be my director. We both work as machine learning engineers, and in the past, I’ve challenged some of his work. Back then, he often spoke to me rudely, and I reported his behavior to our previous director, who gave him a warning.

    Since he became my director, I’ve been facing what feels like retaliation. He consistently bullies me — he micromanages my work, criticizes me in front of teammates, and assigns me poor projects while keeping better opportunities away. He even tried to block my code from going into production. Almost daily, he sends emails to the whole team pointing out my mistakes in a way that feels targeted and humiliating.

    I’m feeling stuck and unsure of what to do. Should I ask him in a private meeting to stop treating me this way, or should I bring it up in front of the team? Should I go to HR? I’m scared that if I do, I might face further retaliation or even get laid off.

    Please, I really need advice. Fyi, my manager doesn’t care about this job, he is just waiting to return.

    1. Reba*

      Absolutely HR if you feel they are trustworthy. Ask them explicitly how they can protect you from retaliation and emphasize especially if you suspect or know that any of his harassment touches on protected characteristics (gender/nationality). The company HR should want to protect itself from legal risk of allowing illegal retaliation. There should be some record of the “warning” he received before. Would your former boss support your account of events/would it be worth talking with them for advice? Is there anyone else who has worked at this place for a while who you think could give you a sense of the politics of the situation? That might help you decide how to proceed.

    2. WellRed*

      DO NOT meet with him privately. Don’t have any sense of whether HR is any good? Do you have a union?

    3. Go to HR*

      Make a detailed list of the instances of retaliation: dates, witnesses, and a comprehensive description of how each of these events was retaliatory. Also gather evidence like emails, meeting minutes, screenshots of direct messages and notes you have from 1:1s and conversations with your director. If you don’t have these notes, create them now from memory as best you can, and start taking notes of every interaction you have with him going forward. Make sure you are very factual when you write this up and when you speak to HR: “X happened on Y occasion and it had Z impact on me/my work/my team.” Request that another manager, preferably his boss or HR, be present for your 1:1 meetings with the director from now until the situation is resolved – either because he completes a performance improvement plan, or because he gets fired. His behavior is completely unacceptable and HR needs to step in.

  68. 653-CXK*

    I was reading an article about red flags in hiring, and I’d figure I’d bring it up for the AAM hivemind (link in reply, I understand the link will be in moderation).

    Story: A recruiter in Australia called a person for a job opportunity or perhaps an offer at 7pm at night. The person asked the recruiter if it was a red flag to call after 7pm, and the recruiter was shocked that the person would ask that question, and stated that it wasn’t a red flag.

    My take: If I were unemployed and this were the dream job I was waiting for a response, after getting great interviews and an offer is on the table, then I’d be glad to take the call. If it’s for something else (non-urgent, “hey, I found something, we can do this later”, sketchy, less than what I’m looking for), I’ll let the call go to voicemail, and I will call you either the next day or later. If you’re going to give me snark because I didn’t respond to your phone call immediately, that’s definitely a red flag (at least for me) because it signals the work culture will be the exact same – rushed, snap judgments; getting extra work without extra compensation; toxic work environment, etc.

    As a long-time reader of AAM, I also recognize boundaries. Not all of us live in the 9-5 world, but when in the past you’ve done the “be available all the time/butts in seats” attitude and have only gotten burnout and frayed personal relationships, being able to decompress is important. So to me, a 7pm call from a recruiter isn’t ideal, but may be the only time they have. I’d respond, but if there were other questions I had, I’d ask to set up something more substantial the next day.

    Tl;dr version: Recruiter shades person for 7pm calls; depends on context and boundaries on how to handle it.

    2. Jess*

      Just as long as they don’t expect the applicant to automatically answer. The applicant could be out in a noisy place, be with others, in a volunteer meeting, have had a couple of drinks or many other reasons for not being able to talk freely!
      Aust right to disconnect laws don’t stop ppl from trying g to make contact it means those being contacted have the right not to respond after working hours!

  69. Pickles*

    Probably late in the thread to ask, I will repeat next week if I don’t get a lot of responses.

    There is a huge demand for teachers now, especially special education teachers. I wonder if federal workers or adjacent workers would consider careers in the classroom. In my community, there are programs to help a person with a bachelors degree get a teaching credential while they work in a school. In my community teacher pay after a few years is not bad
    $90K ish after a few years, more than $100K after a few more years, good health benefits, summers off, meaningful work?

    Would any of the many job seekers on there consider becoming a teacher? How would we advertise this opportunity?

    1. RagingADHD*

      I’m pretty sure people who are desperately searching for work would already see plenty of listings for teaching posts in their own communities, and if they believed it would be a good opportunity, they’d apply.

      The reason there are teacher (and nursing) shortages is not because of a lack of qualified workers. It’s because they are extremely difficult jobs where the public feel entitled to treat highly skilled workers like dirt, violent attacks are quite common, and the listed / paid hours have little resemblance to the actual workload.

      And I’m not just talking about school shootings. Many teachers have personal experience with being assaulted by students, with little or no recourse.

      I like kids and am incredibly grateful that there are teachers who feel called to do that job. But it’s not worth it for people who don’t.

    2. Teacher Lady*

      These jobs are well advertised as it is. (Source: I’m a special education teacher.) The problem isn’t that the job listings aren’t out there, it’s that there’s a (justifiably) high barrier to entry. We absolutely need more special educators. What we don’t need is more people who have no relevant job-specific knowledge and skills (child development, curriculum, strategies for accommodations, strategies for adapting/modifying curriculum, experience administering and interpreting assessment data, knowledge of special education law, etc.) coming into settings where the only support is people who are already doing this as their full-time job. When my school hires a new special educator with a BA in special education, supporting that person to become effective in the job is an additional full-time job for me. To ask me to support a new “special educator” who has no education background? Oof. At that point, you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul, because you’re ensuring that I burn out sooner, and then you have two jobs to fill – mine, and the person I burned myself out supporting, because they were too overwhelmed to last more than a year.

      If people who are leaving federal government positions feel compelled to go into teaching, great. I suspect that most don’t, because if they wanted to become teachers, they’d have done so.

    3. cncx*

      Other people have commented on the pedagogical aspects, my two cents on the financial aspects: the public schools in the area where I grew up, starting pay for these types of jobs is less than 40k; while it is a LCOL area, the salary isn’t enough to offset the long hours and stress. There is nothing financially attractive about taking on teaching when one already isn’t a teacher. My stepbrother, who taught and had an administrator stipend on top of it, still had a side hustle on saturdays just to pay rent. I don’t think he slept for twenty years.

  70. Ellis Bell*

    Getting credentials while working in a school is a good way to go about things but it is still a very long journey from that early starting point to become an experienced educator. It’s good because people quickly get an idea of the challenges and get more relevant experience, but they’re usually relying on overworked teachers to train them from scratch in impossible, fraught, public situations when you’re lucky if you have time to meet with your mentors. This is often unworkable for both the trainee and the school, if the incoming people exceed the many people fleeing the profession; this never occurs to the bureaucrats in charge but it does explain why most trainees quit. They need to focus on a high enough retention to train a small incoming number or it will never get resolved. As far as working in schools is concerned I actually think it’s better to start really small, like as a classroom teaching assistant rather than an on the job trainee teacher. You still need to be amazing with kids and good at teaching, but the hours and bureaucratic demands are dramatically less (fair warning; so is the pay!) It’s possible to make a contribution, and get some interim money whilst deciding if this is really the job you can devote years to even approaching a basic competency in. It’s going to be at least five years before you are at all independent. One of our most recent TAs did a stint assisting while hiring in his own profession had gone cold, but he decided to go back when things warmed up again. He’s planning to come back to it in retirement. Anybody who plans to work in a school needs to visit, read the vibe of the school, question the reputation of the head, ask hard questions about training and accept that the hours are far far longer than even the most pessimistic guess.

Comments are closed.