open thread – January 8, 2016

by Alison Green on January 8, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,163 comments }

{ 1,163 comments… read them below }

  1. Anon for this*

    I am completely gutted by something I found out this week.

    It turns out that one of my references has been giving me absolutely terrible references behind my back. She agreed to give me positive references, my performance reviews from her are all fantastic, and then WHAM! I got a call from a job that I was recently turned down for, and they said they felt I should know that one of my references had given me an absolutely terrible reference.

    I asked her about it this week, and she swears up and down that she gave a great reference and would never give me a bad one. I asked around to two other recent applications, and they confirmed that there were “anomalies” in my references but weren’t willing to go into detail.

    2. Audiophile*

      I’m sorry this is happening to you.

      Is she a current manager or supervisor?

      Is there someone you can swap her out with?

    4. Sadsack*

      That is terrible! You were fortunate to find out about it. Is this completely out of character for her? I guess no matter what she tells you, you can’t trust continuing to use her as a reference.

    6. Coffee Ninja*

      That is unbelievable. I will never understand people who lie to your face like that. I guess she thought you wouldn’t find out?

    8. Spooky*

      Could you have a friend pretend to be a recruiter and call her? More information about exactly what she’s saying could help – maybe it’s possible that she’s mixed you up with a bad employee?

    9. Doriana Gray*

      Wow! Do you have any idea why this person would do that?! It’s unbelievable that people act this way, but I agree with the others who say at least now you know so you can stop using this person as a reference. (Or at least try to find other references that can counterbalance her negative comments.)

    10. Not Karen*

      Yikes! I’m sorry to hear that. If you’re interested, you could ask a friend to call her pretending to be a employer checking references and then the friend could report back to you exactly what she said and you could you report that back to her. It might be better to let it go, however.

      1. Adam V*

        > If you’re interested, you could ask a friend to call her pretending to be a employer checking references

        Do this, but with all of your references (just in case it turns out to be a different reference instead).

        If nothing else, it might give you something to go back to a couple of these companies and say “I’ve since learned that she has been telling people that [X], but in fact all of my reviews from my time with her say exactly the opposite, so if the process is still open, I’d be happy to forward you those reviews, signed by her.” Not sure they’d take that under advisement, but getting that email would certainly make me think “well, if her other two references were good, and we didn’t see any red flags during the interview, and it’s just this one person who’s an outlier, then maybe it’s worth seeing these reviews.”

    11. Dan*

      I’d get a friend to call and check what she says, if she’s lying about you, that’s legally actionable.

      The boss can tell the truth if it’s bad, and there’s nothing you can do. But I can’t figure out how you go from fantastic performance reviews to “absolutely terrible reference.” The things she would say that were negative would be much more nuanced, and not cause for someone to call you and tell you that you’re getting “absolutely terrible” references.

      1. TowerofJoy*

        Right – I’m wondering if there’s something negative she could say about you that you know of? Or is she just answering questions in a less than eloquent manner? I’ve had some reference checkers ask me some difficult questions I wasn’t prepared for. Now I am, but the first few times? It might have sounded like a bad reference when I didn’t mean for it to be.

      2. Anon for this*

        I do know some of the details of what was said, but I can’t say them on here without outing myself completely.

        Suffice it to say that I don’t agree. That said, if my performance is bad then SAY SOMETHING TO ME. We’ve had three straight performance reviews come back stellar, there haven’t been any off-the-cuff concerns, and when asked directly about it, she said I’m doing great!

        What. The. Actual. @2&3&37:7:8! (Sorry, my frustration is coming through)

        1. Dan*

          If you can “prove” it, take the proof to a lawyer and see what he has to say. I’m not usually one for quickly running to the legal system for employment related issues, but if any situation warrants a lawyer, this one seems to.

          Disclaimer; I only play lawyer on the internet, because IANAL. But this is really worth a consultation with one.

          1. fposte*

            There’s a qualified immunity in giving references. Unless the reference is knowingly lying–usually on the criminal accusation kind of level–there’s no illegality in giving a bad reference, even a surprise bad reference.

            1. Dan*

              See my comments through the whole thread, I’m not suggesting she sue over a bad reference, I’m suggesting that if the reference is knowingly lying, there’s something worth talking to a lawyer over there.

              I can’t comment on the case law surrounding this issue, but the statutory language doesn’t appear quite as strong as you indicate:

              (A) The presumption of good faith established in this title may be rebutted by clear and convincing evidence that the information disclosed was knowingly false, disclosed with reckless disregard for the truth, deliberately misleading, disclosed for a malicious purpose, or in the violation of a civil right of the current or former employee.

        2. pieces of flair*

          Is she your current supervisor? Is it possible she’s giving bad references to sabotage your job hunt because she doesn’t want to lose you?

        2. Dan*

          If it’s a lie, it’s slander, and if she’s losing jobs over it, there’s certainly arguable damages.

        3. Chriama*

          Telling people something you know is false, when it causes harm to the party you’re speaking of, is libel or slander (depending on the medium). This is illegal, although can be tricky to litigate.

    12. the_scientist*

      WOW, that is truly terrible. I think it would be worthwhile to find out some more details about what exactly this reference is saying. Not to doubt the person who said “terrible reference”, but I’d be curious to see if she’s talking about specific details of your performance (which are easily refutable on a performance review) and about truly terrible things vs. maybe being a bit mealy-mouthed or sticking to things that wouldn’t be on a performance review.

      Either way, you can’t use this person as a reference anymore, but I’m curious- like if this reference is saying things that are demonstrably false and inaccurate, what is the next step? Do you confront them with the discrepancies and ask them to stop? Do you get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter? I’d have a hard time letting this go, personally, because it just seems SO underhanded and sneaky.

      1. Anon for this*

        I have NO idea how to proceed from here, and I can’t say I’m having an easy time letting it go either. Then again, it’s only been a couple days…

        1. Bea W*

          Finding out someone not only lied to you but lied to everyone else sabotaging your chance at multiple jobs is not exactly the kind of thing one just lets go easily. So don’t be too hard on yourself over your totally normal feelings over being betrayed and viciously stabbed in the back. It really is as awful as you think it is.

          1. JDrives*

            Cosigning this. Anon, I am sorry you found out about this sh*tty thing, and I really feel for you.

    14. Bowserkitty*

      That is horrible!! It’s too bad you found out this late, but it’s good you found out, period, so you can change this going forward. :(

    16. Grey*

      I’d be tempted to call her out on it. Say, “Great! Acme Supplies is expecting your call to correct the misunderstanding. Thanks!”

      1. Anon for this*

        Actually, that’s exactly what I did. She said she would, but I’m not sure how much stock to put in that at this point… Sigh.

    17. Snow White*

      Urgh that sucks. I had something similar a few years back.
      I found out that whilst out to lunch with a recruitment agent who was a contractor for the company I used to work for, my successor was giving awful and infactual references/statements about me and my abilities! I hadn’t even met her!
      At the time, I was struggling to find work despite having great experience – wish I had pursued my hunches to find out who else she had been speaking too.

    18. Sunflower*

      It might be pretty far off but is there a chance they called someone who wasn’t on your reference list? Like an old supervisor you didn’t have a good relationship with? I would take the reference off the list for now and have a friend call the reference pretending to be a recruiter. I’d even go as far as waiting a couple months and then calling back in case she’s changing her tune temporarily since you’ve confronted her.

    20. Bea W*

      Wow. That’s beyond horrible. Why is this woman sticking it you like that? Are you currently working for her or the same employer? I am sorry this is happening to you and hope you can get an awesome job now that you know not to use her as a reference.

    21. JustMe*

      I had a former boss do this because she was very vindictive and angry that I left. I had moved on to start my own business and left on good terms, even agreeing to stay on two additional weeks past my resignation date because they hadn’t hired anyone. After leaving they never filled my position, and with the economic downturn ended up closing their location. I think she either somehow blamed me, or was just angry and wanted to sabotage my job search.

    22. Not So NewReader*

      Wow, this is like everyone’s nightmare come true. I am so sorry this is happening to you. Are you able to contact her boss, or is she the top person in the organization? Did you know her to lie about things, or is this uncharacteristic? If it’s uncharacteristic, this has to be like a double shock for you. Please keep us posted on how things are going.

    23. mkb*

      Since you currently work with her, do you think this is a sabotage type thing? Maybe she doesn’t want to lose you as an employee and thinks this is how? Regardless of her motivation I would never use her again as a reference and once you leave the job cut all ties.

  2. benefits schmenefits*

    Open thread please help – I need advice badly. This is going to be really long, sorry.

    I work at a large public research university in Canada. Part of my compensation package is a tuition benefit – after 3 months of working you are eligible to take any class you want that the university provides and it does not have to be work related. The only requirement being that if a class happens during normal working hours you get permission from your manager to leave work to attend. Otherwise, you do not need permission to apply for the tuition benefit. I read the entire website and called the HR office in charge of this benefit and my management association to confirm the process to make sure you did not need permission and that the course does not have to be work related. They confirmed this for me. The process is to apply online for the benefit. The request is automatically approved and you are registered in the course.

    There is a woman in my office who controls everything, including all of the finances. I have been told that she never allows anyone to use their tuition benefit. Your department pays for half of the cost of a course and the university the other half. Whenever she gets a request she will automatically deny it and will only allow people to get courses that can be funded through the university’s general PD pool, which is only for things that are directly related to your work. I have also been told that if you go through the process that HR has set up and she gets the request she will automatically deny it. She will then punish you by making your life very difficult for trying to follow university policy and for circumventing rules she has created in her head. If you try to go around her and get to be able to take the course, from then on she treats you like absolutely shit afterwards and makes your life a living hill. She will take away perks of the job (ex: she will micromanage your time down to the minute, even though we are all salary employees). She has done this to multiple people in our office – all of them but one backed down and did not take any classes. The one who did fight for it is treated terribly by this woman. She hasn’t given her a raise in years, and threatens to fire her every day for “infractions” (such as not saying “Hi _____” on an email, this apparently is unprofessional & disrespectful enough to warrant a firing).

    I wanted to take a continuing studies class that happens outside of work hours. I did my due diligence to find out the process and then followed HR’s guidelines set up on the website. I did not know that this woman (who I have had runs in with before) needs to approve the request and will get it a few days after, or that I would face repercussions for following the university policy. My tuition benefit request will arrive on her desk on Monday.

    My boyfriend told me that I cannot fight for this, and not to go to HR and our management group to file a complaint. He told me the best way would be to admit to her today that I did this, to apologize for breaking her rules, and to tell her why I wanted to take the class. That if I showed her respect and deferred to her she would be more likely to approve it. And if she still denies it, at least I tried. He told me not to pursue the issue with HR because they will not care about this, and that if I do will be seen as a troublemaker. I have had issues with my team in the 6 months I’ve been in this role and I had to file a complaint with my managers about incredibly racist remarks made to me by my coworkers. He said that it doesn’t matter how well I do my job, if I can’t get along with people and I’m seen as a troublemaker my life will be very hard. Especially because this woman has managed to get so much power (she controls every single aspect of the entire department, including what things people are allowed to put into their offices. She has also decided she supervises several employees even though it is not in her or their job descriptions, including doing performance reviews and giving raises. I still do not understand how she is allowed to do this.), I cannot make an enemy of her. He also says because I am the youngest person in the office the rules are different for me and I am already under harsher scrutiny.

    I had planned on fighting for my benefit, but after my conversation with my boyfriend I think he is right. This situation has me very depressed and down, and honestly I’m starting to wonder if the professional working world is for me. I’m terrible at playing politics and pretending to respect people to get my way. My boyfriend says I cannot survive in the working world without doing those things.

    What do I do? Do I fight for the benefit? Do I just give up? I’m already severely underpaid and unhappy in my role due to a very toxic work environment, and this benefit was one of the bigger perks for why I took this position. Having to be in this situation now is stressing me out. I want to take the class, but I also don’t want to make an enemy of a person who has power and control over everything in the department and can make my life miserable even though she is not on my team, nor does she supervise me in any way. I don’t want people to think I am a troublemaker and hard to work with either, or harm my professional reputation. I am also still on probation and my job isn’t secured yet, and I am scared I will be fired if I raise this issue.

    All in all everything sucks and I could really use some advice to perk me up.

    1. Iamrequiredtouseanamethatisnotanonoranonymous*

      The class is a red herring. I would skip worrying about the class and start looking for a new job.

      1. Sunflower*

        Yup- sorry there is a ton of advice I could give you but at the end of the day this is NOT something I would want to deal with. In the meantime, I don’t think you should apologize. If she denies it, just let it go and focus on finding a new job- maybe switching to a diff department would be a good option?

      2. benefits schmenefits*

        I should have mentioned in the OP that I’m trying to find a new job but what I do is very specialized and finding similar roles is difficult and slow going.

    2. Golden Yeti*

      Honestly, it seems like you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

      You can try to talk to the manager and explain why you wanted to take the class (though it should probably be a pretty strong case), but there’s no guarantee that will sway her.

      If you aren’t happy there, and the only reason you are staying is for a single perk that won’t materialize, that reason to stay is essentially gone–you’d probably be happier elsewhere. You could also quit and take the class you wanted out of pocket. But in the meantime, definitely start looking for something else.

      1. Jinx*

        I’m really confused about the hierarchy being described here – OP says this lady has no managerial responsibility over other members of the office, but is giving out performance reviews and raises and is routinely threatening to fire OP’s coworker. So… who IS the manager here, if it isn’t her? And does she boss him/her around too? I don’t get how she’s throwing this much weight around unless she is a few levels higher than everyone else.

        OP, at any rate, I agree with everyone else here – if this lady has the amount of control over this office as you say, your boyfriend might be right that fighting it will just make your life hell. It sucks that you can’t use this benefit, but it sounds like your HR and management folks aren’t willing to control her behavior. Which doesn’t leave you many options other than leaving.

    3. Kassy*

      First I would say: Start job-searching. You are underpaid, unhappy, your coworkers are racist, your boss is a nightmare, and the one benefit you were looking forward to is going to be hard/impossible to use.

      I think your boyfriend’s response amounts to you having to be a doormat, and I don’t like that at all.

      I have a follow-up question: Is the woman your supervisor according to the paperwork/org chart? If not, I would approach that person and express your concerns to them.

      Does your HR department have an anti-retaliation policy? Most do. If you fight for this course and win and subsequently get treated terribly, go to them. Give them a chance to resolve the issue.

      Is it possible that your department is limited on funding and that is the reason behind the tuition denials? If so, there may not be much you can do.

      I definitely would not “apologize for breaking her rules.” If you weren’t told her rules, by her, how were you to know that they weren’t hearsay?

      I realize that none of this really helps you avoid the wrath of your so-called boss, and I apologize. Don’t get down on yourself about your fit for the professional world just yet. Not all jobs are this bad. Yes, you will have to have some degree of tact and respect no matter what job you land in, but the sorts of games you are having to play here are by no means universal.

      1. Observer*

        Does your HR department have an anti-retaliation policy? Most do. If you fight for this course and win and subsequently get treated terribly, go to them. Give them a chance to resolve the issue.

        If what the OP heard is true, then there is every reason to believe it won’t help, and could make things worse. Keep in mind that HR told her that she does not have to ask for permission and her request should automatically be honored, yet they are allowing this woman to block requests. In other words, they already know she’s breaking policy, and are allowing it. Why would they intervene about a non-retaliation policy?

        The university is lucky if they intervene when there is a legal issue, which I suspect this one is not.

      2. benefits schmenfits*

        Is the woman your supervisor according to the paperwork/org chart? If not, I would approach that person and express your concerns to them.

        No, she isn’t my supervisor or in a role that in any way relates to mine. My supervisors are the Directors of the centre that I work for, but they both have full time jobs doing other things, so I rarely see them. If I were to bring it to them, I worry that they would think of me as a troublemaker or bad in some way, because I’ve had very little contact with them and all they would see of me is negatives.

        1. 42*

          I’m concerned about your repeated use of the word “troublemaker”. You’re not a troublemaker for inquiring genuinely about something that is clearly spelled out as permissible. That woman is the troublemaker, not you.

          Would you be able to approach your supervisors and ask them? No mentioning of that woman. Ask as if you’ve never heard anything about her douchiness. Just ask with the mindset that you know this is allowed, but you just want to triple check with them on this policy before you go ahead and register for the class. Short and sweet. Nothing about doing that says “troublemaker”. Please think about it.

          1. Jinx*

            Or you might use one of Alison’s scripts for when you are told one thing and someone tries to flip later – “I’ve contact HR and upper management, who all assured me that I can sign up for this class. But my request was immediately denied – what can we do to resolve this?” Then if she gives you grief, go back to them. “I know we already discussed that it’s okay for me to take this class, but I’m getting a lot of negative pushback from X because of it. I don’t think it’s a good idea to punish people for using their benefits, so I wanted to let you know.”

            I know we advocate going to the person first if there’s an issue, but it honestly doesn’t sound like that would do any good. And this approach will only work if you find someone willing to manage that woman, which from your descriptions seems unlikely. :(

    4. Jules the First*

      If you’re at a university, at least one of you is unionised, which means you have advocates and support.

      Your boyfriend is wrong wrong wrong – this is your benefit, you’re entitled to it, as long as you follow HR’s rules, and someone needs to stand up to this woman.

      Don’t apologise, hold your head up, and if she refuses the course, go straight back to her and play the innocent ‘I see you refused my application for tuition benefit, Jane, and I’m confused because I thought I’d followed HR’s guidelines, but I clearly made a mistake somewhere. Can you help me correct the problem so I can resubmit it properly and start classes?’

      If she gives you crap on it, then you go to the HR person who wrote the policy and do the same there: ‘I was hoping you could help – I thought I’d done the forms correctly but Jane has rejected my tuition. Can you help me figure out what’s wrong?’

      Oh, and start job hunting – this is pretty toxic!

      2. question op!*

        i have a management association and am not part of the various unions on campus. i don’t know if this woman is union or part of my management group, but if she is union i have heard it will be next to impossible for anything to do be about her.

    5. KR*

      Honestly, if you’re already considering getting another job I would go for it. But act like you don’t know any of what you just told us. Play dumb. If you go in there with guns blazing, she’s going to fight back. If you go in there with a genuine problem and she acts like an evil fruit loop, she will be the only one at fault.
      So when she denies your request, ask her why in a very non-confrontational tone. Force her to give you an honest explanation of why she doesn’t want you to use your benefits.

      Did you sign a contract or a written offer? If it included the benefit of the free classes, I would approach it then as “This was communicated to me as a benefit of working here, and I’m a little confused at why it’s being taken away this late in the game.” Approach it like a problem you’re trying to solve (both with HR and with her), rather than a me vs. you argument. I’m not sure how far this will get you, but my general attitude to people like this is to kill them with kindness so that when they act like jerks, they look like the foolish ones and your butt is covered.

      Also, your boyfriend is partly right that office politics are a part of being in the work force, but you do not have to be disrespected in order to survive in the working world. There are a lot of people who don’t act like this in the working world and don’t tiptoe around whoever has the biggest ego in order to work in peace. You deserve respect, you deserve to be treated as an adult and as a professional, and you deserve benefits that were offered to you when you took the job. This job might not be the one for you, but that is because this woman is a tyrant and a bully. I would encourage you to look for a job that you will be happier in because you deserve it.

      2. Dynamic Beige*

        It can be easier to gain forgiveness than get permission.

        You submitted something for which you had a claim to. If “Jane” is a secondary check on whether or not your request is approved — you didn’t know that. It wasn’t communicated to you when you were hired. You did what you thought the procedure was after researching it. If “Jane” is that much of a tyrant, I would suggest you start documenting everything that happens to you. Look for a new job and when you leave, let them know why you’re leaving. If this woman is not the manager and has taken all these responsibilities on herself, that is not cool. The HR department may be able to tell you why this situation exists or they may not be aware of it.

        But honestly what I’d really like to see is every single person in that department go to HR on one day with an application to take a course. Jane is a bully, pure and simple. Whenever one person does something that is outside of her rules, she makes an example out of them so that everyone else knows what to expect if they go against her. She singles out people for abuse and everyone else says “Gee, I don’t want to be on the receiving end of that.” So they put their heads down and tell themselves it’s OK. But it’s not. If she was confronted by a united group, she’d crack like a walnut. What’s she going to do? Fire the whole department?

        1. Observer*

          Jane is a bully, pure and simple. Whenever one person does something that is outside of her rules, she makes an example out of them so that everyone else knows what to expect if they go against her. She singles out people for abuse and everyone else says “Gee, I don’t want to be on the receiving end of that.” So they put their heads down and tell themselves it’s OK. But it’s not. If she was confronted by a united group, she’d crack like a walnut. What’s she going to do? Fire the whole department?

          You are right that she’s a bully and uses bully tactics. And, in the US if a group went to her and then to HR to complain, retaliation would be illegal. I don’t know if that’s the case in Canada, though. She doesn’t need to retaliate against the whole group to win, though. All she needs to do is to retaliate against a significant minority, and people will likely fall in line. And HR seems spineless enough that it it’s not illegal, they will look the other way.

      3. question op!*

        thank you! what you have outlined was my original line of attack. follow the policy given to me by hr, and when (if) she rejects it to politely ask for clarification why and approach it as a problem that needs to be solved. if she continued to deny it i would then report the situation to hr & my management association. but after the conversation with my boyfriend (who is older than me and had worked in corporate environments longer than i have before becoming self-employed) i started to doubt myself and my plan.

        thank you for confirming my original thoughts on the matter!

        1. Observer*

          The thing your boyfriend is correct about is that if she does deny it and your polite approach doesn’t work, fighting it is likely to backfire on you. A polite “I’m confused” type of inquiry to HR might work, but from what you said, fighting it is likely to make your life miserable.

          Is getting free classes really worth this? Is it worth the rest of the toxicity you describe? I really would be looking for a new job in your shoes.

      5. Kristina L*

        “my general attitude to people like this is to kill them with kindness so that when they act like jerks, they look like the foolish ones and your butt is covered.” This!

    6. Amtelope*

      Look for another job. You work for a terrible manager, this work environment is toxic in other ways, and the pay is bad. I don’t think it’s worth fighting for this benefit — it sounds like other people have gotten bad results from doing that, and that it may affect the reference you get from this job. If your request is denied, let it go; if she complains that you shouldn’t have requested this benefit, say “oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t know;” and get your resume out to other jobs ASAP. This isn’t a problem with “the professional working world,” it’s a problem with a particular terrible job. There are better jobs out there, and you should look for one.

    7. Observer*

      You can’t survive anywhere without learning to be respectful of people who you don’t respect. Also, “playing politics” is part of all aspects of life, not just the work world. That doesn’t mean that you need to turn into a syncopatic hypocrite who just uses people. But, it does mean that you learn the power dynamics in a situation and try to use them to your best advantage in an ethical manner. Sometimes the best thing you can do in that kind of situation is to decide that you want no part of this mess and start looking for an exist strategy.

      I think that this is one of those situations. It sounds like your boyfriend is correct. If HR policy is that you don’t need permission to take these classes, then your request should not be coming to this woman for approval or denial. Yet, it is and HR is letting her deny the requests. Which means that they don’t care that she’s abusing her power.

      That alone would be a major red flag to me. The other issues you mention make it clear that this is the tip of the iceberg. Therefore, your best bet would be to start looking for another job. There are places that are not as dysfunctional. Even a different part of the university might work, if you can get a transfer.

      I don’t think that you are wrong in your complaint. And I think HR and this person are totally out of line. But, unless you have some fairly strong allies in the organization who would be willing to go to bat for you, you don’t have the leverage to influence too much. So, don’t waste energy on that, and start looking for another position.

      1. question op!*

        You can’t survive anywhere without learning to be respectful of people who you don’t respect.

        i should clarify this a bit. i have no problem for feigning respect for people to get things done/have a harmonious working life for myself and others. what i don’t like is having to respect someone because she is seriously power tripping, when she has done nothing to earn any respect. she is in no position of authority of me in the org-chart, and all of the “respect” she has is because she is a major bully and uses fear to control people. i don’t want to back down on this because someone needs to stand up to her for anything to change (everyone is unhappy because of her and our dept has a turnover rate of 55% a year), but i’m also unsure if this is the hill i want to die on.

        my other plan is to find another job and when i leave file a complaint against the entire department for the racism i faced, and the other issues that impacted my job. of course, i could never use anyone from here as a reference, but considering how toxic this place is, that may not be a bad thing.

        1. Observer*

          i don’t want to back down on this because someone needs to stand up to her for anything to change (everyone is unhappy because of her and our dept has a turnover rate of 55% a year), but i’m also unsure if this is the hill i want to die on.

          That’s really at the heart of the issue. She sounds like a bully who has been enabled by her employer. Which means you need to figure out whether this is the hill you want to die on – knowing that you might get shot down, but still not significantly change anything.

          my other plan is to find another job and when i leave file a complaint against the entire department for the racism i faced, and the other issues that impacted my job. of course, i could never use anyone from here as a reference, but considering how toxic this place is, that may not be a bad thing.

          :( Unfortunately, I have to say that this sounds like a sensible plan.

          Lots of luck!

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Still waters run deep, OP. If you keep following this you may find bigger issues. It jumped out at me that the department is billed for part of your course that you take and that is why she does not approve things. I’d LOOOVE to see the books for your department. I think this person is doing something that she does not want other people to find out. A strong offense is a good defense.

          Meanwhile, I would be tempted to ask TPTB why they offer a benefit that no one is allowed to have, at least in your department. I would ask several people so that no one person could keep me down. Heck, if I am going to go down then I am going down in a blaze of glory. Which brings me to my point, you take this on then expect a drawn out thing. Are you up for it? I don’t take on every injustice I see, because I just. can’t. do. it.

          My question to you is, can you quietly look around at other openings on campus and transfer to a kinder department? (I have done this one too and found that some places are just plain uncivil in every department OR other places had departments that were okay.)

    8. LibraryChick*

      benefits schmenefits, You stated, “This situation has me very depressed and down, and honestly I’m starting to wonder if the professional working world is for me.” First, I am happy to confirm that not all workplaces are like the toxic one you are currently dealing with. Second, you need to decide what consequences you can live with. You seem to have a good grasp of the situation, so you need to decide what is most important to you in this situation. Unfortunately, fighting for the benefit you really want could result in an extremely unpleasant work environment or even getting fired (this is especially true if you are still on probation).

      It is strange that this woman has so much power in the department. You may never know what the circumstances are which are allowing that to happen, but it does not sound as though it is something that is unlikely to change anytime soon. The fact that you are already underpaid and unhappy in the position tells me that you should get out of there as soon as you are able.

      1. Mike C.*

        I really wonder if her political power is really just a factor of the university being large and no one saying anything before now.

    9. Lead, Follow or Get Outta the Way!*

      I agree with those that said don’t apologize and approach it as a “how can we solve this problem”. But also, if you’ve already had to complain about racist remarks being made, then her denial (if she indeed does deny the course) could be seen as retaliation and this is NOT the can of worms any company/institution wants to open. Especially if they prior incident was documented.

      Yes, you definitely should be looking for another position, but I would also be prepared to go back to HR to discuss the (impending) denial of benefits. I (personally) would also have an attorney on speed dial and document, document, document. Wishing you the best of luck!

    10. Mike C.*

      Your boyfriend is way off base, and you need to start gathering allies outside of your department.

      Look, as others have pointed out, these classes are part of your benefits. Would it be ok if people complaining about light paychecks where treated like crap? Would they be trouble makers?

      Go back and read all of the rules, policies and other stuff and know it like the back of your hand. If you are treated poorly, document it. In fact, I really see no reason why you couldn’t take your current concerns to an HR rep or your management group right now, telling them what you’ve told us. It doesn’t have to be a huge spiel, but just a one on one where you start by saying something like, “I have some serious concerns about this individual and what happens when my coworkers have tried to use these benefits”. Take a bullet point list with you if you’re especially nervous about this to stay on track.

      If nothing else, you’re going to feel better about your situation because you have an outlet to try and deal with it. Managers like these aren’t helping the company, and given that you’re not in the United States her actions may raise actual legal flags as well.

      It sounds like to me that the reason you’re unhappy is this person, and in large organizations they really, really don’t like to see this sort of thing.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        OOOH, this is a great point OP, make sure you are on friendly terms with quite a few people outside of your department. Take walks at lunch if you have to, in order to accomplish this. There is a hidden power in knowing people outside of your department. Learn people’s names and what their job is. Collect up as many friendly faces as you can. Being friendly and being known provides a layer of protection that you can’t find any where else. What I like about this method is it requires taking a sincere interest in others. Be real, be sincere, you know, all the things your department does not do.

        1. Doriana Gray*

          I agree with all of this. I did this at my current company and was able to get a new job in another division (and a promotion to boot!).

          benefits, schmenefits, please Not So NewReader’s advice and get the hell out of your current department. That woman sounds nuts.

        2. question op!*

          i worked in another department at this org before moving into the role i am in now. my role is unique because it involves a lot of cross campus collaboration – i know and work with a lot of people in a lot of different departments in the university. i’m slowly becoming more acquainted with and making friends with more and more people, which is some small measure of comfort.

    11. F.M.*

      I read the first 2 paragraphs and stopped there. Do you really want to work for an organization that offers a benefit but will never let you use it? Do you really want to work somewhere that management will treat you like crap? There’s your answer.

    12. HarryV*

      First, don’t make it personal. As with most educational perks, it requires managerial approval. The HR lady is denying or overruling the approval. I would first get your manager’s approval then approach HR lady why everything is getting denied. Is it a budget issue, then find out when the budget is released. If the benefit was pulled from someone higher, then find out the reason. As with any company, if the benefit is listed then you are right to assume that you made your decision to work there on the basis of it. With that said, each company and operations go through expenses and one of the things that usually gets cut are educational expenses. If such decision is made, then there isn’t much you can do. Good luck.

      1. question op!*

        Educational benefits work differently at universities because a core perk of working at educational institutions is the ability to take courses that are offered by your school. Also, the benefit is in my collective agreement and cannot be taken away in cost-cutting measures without rewriting all of our contracts and renegotiating the collective agreements.

        I called Central HR and my management group to get the entire process as well as the website – no where is it listed you need managerial approval to use your tuition benefit (unless the course falls within working hours). The woman who would deny my request is not hr. From what I was told by our finance office & hr is that the request cannot be denied if it is valid (which mine is), the approval step is to ensure that the course isn’t related to my core job duties and could be covered by the PD fund instead. In that case the request would be denied and the funding routed differently – but it would still be approved.

        She is denying requests because she likes to control people and write her own rules – there is most definitely money in the budget to fund our tuition benefits.

        1. the_scientist*

          OP, you reference collective agreements, but claim that you are not in a union. I think you should do some more research on that because collective agreements are, to my knowledge, used almost exclusively in the context of union environments and people not in the union would not be covered by collective agreements. Do you pay any sort of dues? Even if you don’t receive or aren’t entitled to, say, the same pension and benefits as other union members, if you pay dues, you are part of the union and you are entitled to the same representation. (This happened to me- I was in the union, and paying dues, but I was a contract employee so I had to wait 12 months before being allowed to opt in to benefits and pension).

          Also, you say this woman is not an HR manager, not your manager, not any kind of manager and has no official authority other than the authority she grants herself. So who gives a shit what she says or does- can’t you bypass her entirely? Figure out who the paperwork needs to be sent to and email or hand-deliver it yourself. If she gets on your case play sweet and innocent “oh, sorry, I didn’t know I had to give this to you, the manual says I can send it straight to HR”. If she starts retaliating against you, start documenting it, and tell someone with actual authority.

          If you’re covered by a collective bargaining agreement and you are being denied a benefit which was spelled out in your contract, this university is looking at potential legal action. Canada has significantly stronger worker protections than the US and those protections are especially strong in union environments. Your union steward DEFINITELY wants to know that people in your department are being denied a benefit to which they’re legally entitled.

          1. Schnapps*

            A lot of organizations with management associations in Canada have something akin to a collective agreement.

            OP, wrt to not having to get manager’s approval, I think you may be wrong. After all, they are in charge of the departmental budget. You may want to check with your association rep on that. If the university itself were paying for the course completely then that would be another matter, but since part of it comes out of departmental budget, and expenditures from departmental budgets usually require a manager’s approval, it follows that you do need to check with your manager so that they will release the funds for your use. The money side is a business function and I don’t see any public institution giving up allocation of money to any sort of collective agreement.

            The problem with collective agreements is the published one doesn’t include any arbitration that has occurred in the meantime.

            That said, your association may be of more help in navigating this. I would contact them for an exploratory meeting and see what’s going on.

          2. Jetta*

            “If you’re covered by a collective bargaining agreement and you are being denied a benefit which was spelled out in your contract, this university is looking at potential legal action. ”

            All CBAs have grievance procedures. Find out who your union steward is and get that ball rolling. This sounds like a class action grievance. In the US Federal gov., all workers in the bargaining unit are covered by negotiated agreements covering the bargaining unit whether they pay dues or not. Benefits are non-cash compensation and arbitrary denial of benefits is reducing the compensation you reasonably expected to have when you took the job, OP. If your managers are out of touch with day to day matters, they may not even know about that tyrant woman’s shenanigans. Document, document, document, the racial issues also. Good luck!

    13. Weekday Warrior*

      These departmental dragons are depressingly common in universities but they do sometimes get their comeuppance. For all you know, wheels may be turning behind the scenes already. I’ve also known some retired dragons who are hurt that former colleagues don’t get in touch, ask them for coffee,etc. Seriously?

      What you can do is work at your job as if the dragon is a reasonable person. Follow policies, act professionally, and don’t worry about possible drama. If/when it comes, explain that you were following policy, etc., and be willing to go along with the dragon’s edicts but calmly, not apologetically. Own your calm power, be respectful and kind to the dragon just as you woul be to any co-worker.

      No one at a Can research university can be fired for email salutations so don’t over worry about this person’s power. Often petty tyrants lack real power so compensate by trying to control all the small things.

      Learn what you can in this position and start preparing your move to another. The dragon’s days may be numbered but you don’t want to waste your time waiting for it to happen. Sometimes Depts reorg. just to lay a dragon off !

  3. Bend & Snap*

    My company is in the middle of a bloodbath of a layoff–hundreds and hundreds of people. It’s…unsettling.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      My SO went through that a few years ago. He wasn’t laid off but many of his teammates were and it was rough.

      I went from “This company never does layoffs!” to “We’re doing layoffs and it’s you!” in like a 3-week period, and that was even more rough.

      1. ali*

        I went through this 3 years ago. “We never do layoffs!” to “Sorry, you’re being laid off!” in the course of a month. Oddly enough, I’ve been back in the job I was laid off from for two years now, which is longer than I was in it originally. Weird how the world works sometimes.

        1. Doriana Gray*

          I was laid off once (while being technically still a temp) and was brought back five weeks after the layoff, and then eventually hired on as a permanent employee and stayed for two years and seven months. Yes, the world is strange sometimes.

    3. Dasha*

      Been there, done that. I’m so sorry, I know it’s really stressful. Positive thoughts sent your way.

    4. Dan*

      BTDT, and if your skills are marketable, you may very well be better off.

      My last employer (government contractor) paid us rather low, but had a lot of VPs. So our billing rates were high. The company kept telling us “our rates are very high, it’s hard to win contracts”. The subtle implication was, “don’t ask for a raise, our rates go up even higher, we won’t win work, and you’ll be out of a job.”

      I got laid off, went to a competing employer in the same space, and got a 25% pay raise. I told my boss that story, and he just gave me this blank “WTF, doesn’t compute” look.

      I showed up at a happy hour not too long ago, and ran into some of the old VPs. They tried “apologizing” for my layoff, and I told them not to, I was much better off.

      1. Jillociraptor*

        I’m sure it’s small solace now but I had the same experience. Being laid off was the push I needed to get out of a situation that wasn’t right for me. I make the same salary but work about 2/3 of the hours, with a boss who is a better fit for me. It’s letting me pursue a side hustle I’m really excited about!

    5. Adam V*

      I was laid off the Monday after Christmas in 2008 (a couple of months after I got married). Best of luck to you.

    6. Bowserkitty*

      Much good luck and thoughts to you. This happened to me last year but it was the biggest blessing in disguise. My mantra is from Harold and Kumar of all movies – “In the end, the universe tends to unfold as it should.”

    10. RKB*

      My father’s company is the same. He’s an electrical engineer for an oil and gas company… There’s 8 people left in his building. He is so depressed… Says walking through those halls is like walking through a cemetery.

    11. Jillociraptor*

      I’m so sorry. This is so hard. It’s hard to live with the ambiguity about your job, and hard to live with the suffocating cloud of tension around as people you like (and even people you don’t really like) are headed out the door. I hope you make it through this icky moment quickly, and with whatever the right outcome is for you.

    12. Bend & Snap*

      Thanks everyone. My job is safe right now but who knows what’s around the corner.

      I’m sad because I lost some great colleagues and I absolutely love my job, my boss, my team, my commute, my work/life balance…everything…this has been a dream and I don’t know if I’ll ever find something as wonderful.

    13. Survivor*

      I survived a Friday bloodbath (with severence fortunately) with the help of therapy, but I had PTSD from it for years after I found a new job. If you have the personal e-mail addresses of people who get laid off, send them a kind note about how much you appreciated working with them and how you’ll miss them. They’ll appreciate it.

    14. TotallyNotMe*

      Ugh. My company is about to announce layoffs. We have had several rounds in the past few years and this one is going to be bad for people at my level (mid-level management). I’ve never worried about these in the past for myself, but this time I am worried. Even if I survive, it will be so hard. Work loads, which are already very high due to the past layoffs, will double. Sigh… Time to brush of the old resume.

      1. Bea W*

        Sound like where I work. New CEO came in and restructured the business in a spectacularly massive way. We have layoffs every year, but the latest round will hit management the hardest as many of those positions were victims of the restructuring.

    15. Rachel*

      Oh, have I been there. In a previous job I survived two rounds of layoffs but not the third. It’s no fun to be in any part of this. Crossing fingers for you.

  5. notice question*

    Hi everyone! I have a happy question for this Friday morning!

    I just received an offer letter for a new position. I had been waiting for the official offer letter for a while and am positive I am going to accept the position. I am now trying to decide if I should give notice today (this afternoon) or wait until Monday morning. I am working from home today, so, if today, would have to provide notice by phone. In some ways, I would prefer to wait until Monday morning when I will be in the office and can speak with my supervisor face to face. On the other hand, we have our weekly check in meeting today, and think it might be strange to go through that whole meeting and not mention that I am leaving.

    What do you all think?

    Either way, I will plan to provide 2-2.5 weeks (which is standard), so the timing doesn’t matter much from that perspective.

    1. Delyssia*

      Congratulations!

      I think either is fine, but personally, I would wait and have the conversation in person on Monday.

    2. KathyGeiss*

      I’d wait until Monday and do it in person. I wouldn’t look back on the Friday meeting as strange if you resigned Monday and I was your manager.

      Doing it Monday morning as opposed to Friday doesn’t actually move things quicker and this way your manager gets a weekend without worrying about how to replace you. :)

      1. some1*

        “I wouldn’t look back on the Friday meeting as strange if you resigned Monday and I was your manager.”

        Right. Plenty of people wait to give notice after accepting an offer. Once I waited two weeks.

        1. Kyrielle*

          Also, unless you say “I accepted this last Friday” they don’t know you had the offer letter in hand then. It’s really not a big deal, as long as you can get t hrough the meeting today without something weird in your tone or responses. (Even that’s not that big a deal, just a little strange if it happens.)

          1. notice question*

            right! espcially cause its a phone call, I can probably get through it without being strange. Just didn’t know what the appropriate etiquette was.

      1. finman*

        I went through this same thing (WFH Fridays, gave notice Monday). It is always more professional to do something like this in person.

    5. INFJ*

      Are thre any contingencies still on the offer? (background check references) If so, you should wait anyway.

      1. notice question*

        No, as of the official letter, its all finalized. That’s what I was waiting for until now.

  6. Crispy*

    I have really been struggling with my job lately. It’s stressful with long hours with no hope of a raise or promotion so it seems like I’m burning myself out for no reason.

    I’ve tried to handle things better I’ve been trying to exercise more and I’ve been reading a lot of self help books and this site but in the end I work at a small company and my boss is a ghost boss. She’s the owner and comes in maybe three days a month. If I bring up anything or have concerns she just says things like I dunno get it done and has unrealistic expectations of how long it takes to get things done which have caused me to work on weekends several times. Even though she only comes in a few days a month she always assigns me big projects before I go on vacation or have a day or holiday off and then just before the recent holidays she had a bunch of stuff to do- I thought at first it was just a coincidence but it’s been a pattern. Memorial Day, Labor Day, July 4th, thanksgiving, etc…

    I’ve been here a year and two months but due to my other positions at other companies in the past (I’ve been through a major restructuring and almost laid off at two companies) I look like a job hopper with two years here, a year there etc

    I had a major meltdown in my car earlier this week. I felt so taken advantage of, stepped on, and stressed. I’ve been trying to push back more and I got chewed out by a manager (I don’t report to him but he was asking me to do something that I don’t handle or even have access to and when I pointed him to someone else he got nasty). Luckily it was lunch time and I was able to go to my car where I drove a few minutes away and just broke down. I cried for about 30 mins so hard I could barely breathe. I normally handle things much better and I don’t know what my problem is… I normally don’t have meltdowns. I guess I can’t pushback that much and no one has my back?

    There are a lot of other problems in the company but this post is way too long already.

    I’m just wondering how do I know if its me or the job? And I don’t know that that’s an answerable question either. Maybe I’m just not handling things well?

    My career has been all small companies that have had varying degrees of family involvement and I have moved around a lot. Are there questions I could ask myself to tell?

    2. Dalia524*

      I don’t think spending at least a year at jobs makes you a job-hopper, unless you’ve been in the adult work force for two decades and all of your jobs have been like that. Go out and apply! Just don’t take the first one that’s offered you just to get out.

    3. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      If you are close enough to any of your co-workers, ask them how they feel about the work environment. You can even ask this to former co-workers. If people say that it is/was a terrible place to work, it is not you. If everyone says that they didn’t have any problems in the workplace then maybe you should talk to a professional.

      Good Luck with it all.

      1. alice*

        I second this. Sometimes people are really good at hiding how they feel, especially at work. You might not be the only one.

    4. katamia*

      It definitely sounds like an environment a lot of people would struggle in. I don’t think the question of whether it’s you or the job is really a relevant one, though. Either way (though I suspect it’s a combination of both–people are better suited to different environments), it sounds like this is a bad fit for you. I get a sense that you’re blaming yourself (for not being able to handle it), but it’s not your fault that your boss assigns you a bunch of work before holidays and doesn’t answer your questions.

      Seeing a therapist (I don’t know what “long hours” means in this situation, but if you have time) might help you get through this, or maybe even calling some sort of helpline to talk, although I’m not sure which ones might be best for your situation. But it doesn’t sound like an environment where you should stay much beyond the two-year mark. It’s probably too early to start job hunting now, but maybe when you reach 1 year and 9 or 10 months, depending on how long hiring usually takes for your field and how much notice you’re required to give.

    5. Golden Yeti*

      It sounds like a toxic environment to me. Especially if your boss is in rarely, she should be willing to go over anything you need help with when she is in–that’s just common sense. And specifically, methodically assigning you projects just before you go on a break? That sounds super sketchy to me.

      Based on your (understandable) physical reaction to all this accumulated stuff, you may want to check out the signs of burnout: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/high-octane-women/201311/the-tell-tale-signs-burnout-do-you-have-them

      Therapy may be helpful in the meantime, too, but I would second Mando Diao above: start checking out other jobs.

    6. Artemesia*

      If you think it is ‘you’ it might be a clue to get some therapy which might make it easier for you to roll with the punches. But it sounds like regardless of that, it is also ‘them’. Having to work in a setting where people jump down your throat has got to be unpleasant. Maybe looking to see if there is anything else out there without the pressure of job loss would be helpful. Work on yourself but also work on improving your position or at least exploring that option.

    7. Mimi*

      I’d work for a few weeks until I got my finances figured out and then I’d work part-time, remotely, from Hawaii.

    8. new reader*

      Did you have these types of meltdowns as a reaction to stress in previous jobs? All jobs have some level of stress, but if in most work situations you’re able to cope except for now in this job, then it’s probably the job. If you supervisor isn’t providing guidance, prioritization, or assistance with an overwhelming workload, they aren’t managing.

      I previously had a similar work environment where I would wind up quietly crying in the ladies room or be reduced to tears on the drive to work by the mere thought of all I had to face at work. The supervisor was no help, with unrealistic expectations and offering similarly useless advice to just get it done. I stuck it out for quite a while because I really did enjoy much of the work I was doing and many of my co-workers. But it eventually became too much and I went job hunting. Almost three years later I’m in a much better work environment with more reasonable work expectations. And I’m a much nicer co-worker and person to be around.

      You can explain in a cover letter the earlier job changes that resulted due to company restructuring and potential layoffs to counter the perception of job hopping. But staying in a toxic environment just to counter that perception isn’t healthy.

    9. Sunflower*

      Every small company I’ve worked for has been dysfunctional in so many ways. Yes larger companies have their problems and it can take forever to get things done but that doesn’t even compare to the dysfunction I encountered at smaller places. Especially if there’s family involved. Not EVERY small company is like this but small companies certainly come with their own set of intricacies. Once I started working at a larger company, it really opened my eyes to see what a job could and should be like.

      You can certainly speak to coworkers about their feelings about the company but your coworkers are NOT you. What works for them may not work for you. It doesn’t sound like this environment is working for you. I was so miserable at my old job- like would have rather had a dentist drilling into my teeth for 8 hours than be at my desk. While most people admitted the place was dysfunctional, a lot of them had been there for 10+ years and had no plans of leaving. Some perks of a small company were not worth leaving over to them- for me, those perks didn’t matter. I think you should be job searching and thinking about the kind of place you think would work for you. What do you feel is lacking in your current job? What kinds of things would need to happen in your current job to make you want to stay? What kinds of benefits do you have that you could do without?

      For me, being in a larger company has done great things. Yes it’s still stressful and fast paced and I’m running around a lot but I’m on a team, my boss is super supportive and the fact that there isn’t just one person calling all the shots helped me a lot. There are a lot of people who have said this place is terrible and they’d never come back- you have to know you and trust your gut feeling.

      That being said, it could be a little ‘you’ as well. I like my new job but I still have problems and meltdowns. I still go to a therapist. I have anxiety and it creeps into all parts of my life. Sometimes I leave work and continue to stress about things I probably shouldn’t stress about. It sounds like your gut knows it’s the workplace, not you, and I would trust your gut in these kinds of situations.

    10. Glasskey*

      I’m sorry. For starters, may I recommend what is undoubtedly some well-deserved time off if you can take it (and by that I’d like to suggest not when it’s necessarily most convenient for everyone in the office…..You obviously aren’t feeling well so think of this more as sick time.) It will help you think through your next steps with a clearer head. Second, consider whether there are some parts of your assignments that just need to get done but don’t have to be done particularly well–that’s something that’s been an epiphany for me in my current job, which sounds oh-so-much like yours. Third, I couldn’t tell from your post whether you’ve had an annual review–is that part of the plan? You deserve one.

    11. Dynamic Beige*

      Even though she only comes in a few days a month she always assigns me big projects before I go on vacation or have a day or holiday off and then just before the recent holidays she had a bunch of stuff to do- I thought at first it was just a coincidence but it’s been a pattern. Memorial Day, Labor Day, July 4th, thanksgiving, etc…

      Others have said it but… get out. I’ve seen this sort of thing happen with other people who were working under toxic or outright abusive managers. One person I know would book her vacation months in advance and then a couple weeks before it was going to take place, her manager would tell her that she couldn’t go because Manager was going to be away that week. As it happened pretty much every time she asked for time off, it was not a coincidence.

      You’ve been there a year. Can you honestly see anything improving? If you can’t see your workplace getting better and you hate it, it’s time to get out. Staying there for longer so you can say you were two years at some place is only going to cause more damage to your sense of self worth. Besides, if you start looking now, it may take a while to find a new job.

    12. Panda Bandit*

      One year or two years at a job is fine and doesn’t make you look like a job hopper.

      Your current job is the problem here. Your boss sounds like a really bad mix of petty and uninvolved. The best thing you can do is look for something else.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      “I’m just wondering how do I know if its me or the job? And I don’t know that that’s an answerable question either. Maybe I’m just not handling things well?”

      This is what being overwhelmed looks like. Your work situation is overwhelming you. If it were me, I would hate-hate-hate working in isolation so much. I think most people would be crying in their cars. Can you find ways to weave people into your work day? Those ways could be for work purposes or just to have a friendly face to say HI. Start there.

      Next I would try to do something with the ghost boss. I have no idea how she communicates with you-phone, email, in person- but two weeks before your next time off, contact her and let her know that you would like to plan out your time so things are not left hanging. You want to make sure you have everything done that she wants. Tell her the last minute rushes concern you because you want to do your best on these things. You will probably have to do this several times before she hears you once. I have had to do this with GOOD bosses and they had to be told several times. Some bosses are so focused on their stuff (lots of reasons) that they actually do not know they are burning out their staff.

      If none of this makes sense in your setting, then your best bet would to be start looking for something else.

  7. 42*

    Honest question!: I’ve thought about this in the past, and now with Saturday’s Powerball and all…

    What would be the best etiquette when one gets a windfall – like winning the lottery – and you’re going to leave your job? Would you give notice? Just call in and say “sayonara”? I’m completely torn, because I wouldn’t want to leave my team in a bind. How would you handle it?

      1. Doriana Gray*

        See, I was going to say I’d get ghost, but then you went and made a reasonable comment. Yeah…knowing I’d have financial security would make it easier to deal with my toxic workplace for two more weeks.

    2. Turanga Leela*

      I’d give notice. Actually, no. I’d call out that day (“Hey boss, I won the lottery! I’m spending today getting drunk on champagne in my pajamas!”), then keep working for a few months while I settled my financial planning, set up trust funds, and so on. After that, I’d give notice in a regular way so that I could move to a job aligned with my post-lottery goals—I’d want to start an organization doing work that I care about, but would need to learn more about the field.

      I’ve given a surprising amount of thought to what I would do if I won the Powerball.

      1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

        Actually, I really like your plans. It is considerate and very professional and makes a ton of sense from a financial perspective. I know I wouldn’t quit a job until I had at least the check deposited in the bank and it was sure that it had cleared. Also, this gives your boss a few months to find/train a replacement.

        I do have one question for you, Turanga Leela. What is the champagne doing in your pajamas and how does it not leak out? :-) Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one.

      2. Connie-Lynne*

        I’d call out for a day or two, maybe plan ahead for a long weekend, depending on any urgent projects, explaining to the boss that I was too distracted to work.

        Then I’d spend the time until my check was deposited slowly reducing my workload. I’d probably ask if I could be kept on for small, bite-sized projects just to stay connected.

        Then I’d set up an art trust and get to work looking for buildings and staff to found my experimental low-cost-living arcology.

        Finally I’d rent Disneyland out for a party.

      3. MP*

        I think your only mistake is telling people you won the lottery… no-one needs to know and I think it makes you a target for all kinds of people who want that money (even if they have the best intentions). If you need to explain a sudden change in fortunes, inheritance is a much better way to go.

        2. Rebecca in Dallas*

          Exactly what I was thinking! No way I would let my coworkers know that I had gotten a windfall. (I don’t play the lottery, even when the jackpot is a big one. I don’t have any rich relatives either. So I don’t know where this mysterious money would come from!)

      4. Boop*

        1) Lawyer
        2) Financial planner
        3) Claim winnings
        4) AWESOME VACATION
        5) Continue working while setting up trust funds, etc.
        6) Quit working for a while to travel and build dream house
        7) Eventually wind up working somewhere as a volunteer, or part time

        1. NJ Anon*

          Everything except #5. I would work up until I got everything in order and then claimed the winnings.

        2. RLA*

          Your plan is exactly like mine. My friends and I were discussing a while back how we would spend our time if we didn’t have to work, and I was saying I’d find a part time thing/volunteer somewhere related to animal rescue. Ah, to be wealthy and play with puppies all day….

          1. Dynamic Beige*

            Tax lawyer! In American lotteries, you don’t get to keep all the money, but in Canadian ones, you do.

      5. MAB*

        Your plans are pretty close to mine, only I would keep the whole winning the lotto thing quiet until I got the money in order.

        I already have plans if I ever win that involve a not for profit, paying off my parent’s house and some school loans for family/friends and staying at my job until I got stuff going and they found a replacement.

      6. AdAgencyChick*

        Hahaha, me too, even though I almost never play.

        Good boss/company would get several months’ notice as you describe. My last boss would have gotten a Xeroxed copy of my bare behind.

    3. Mockingjay*

      I won’t tell anyone that I have won. I will give two weeks notice and quietly “retire” to…Aruba!

      I’ll need the two weeks time to change my phone to a new unlisted number, hire tax accountants and lawyers, and all the other incognito chores you should do before claiming wealth. [I’ve thought about this A LOT. Ha ha.]

      1. Artemesia*

        This. Although if it had happened when I worked at a University I’d see out the semester. But I would not be announcing the big win if I could manage that. Since the odds are less than being hit by lightning, I am not going to devote too much time to the plan — but occasionally when I buy a lottery ticket, I think about it.

    4. Master Bean Counter*

      If I liked my job I’d offer to do it until a replacement can be found. In my current position I’d like to resign by post card from some where in the Caymans. In reality I’d give two weeks notice and probably only work what I absolutely had to.

    5. Mando Diao*

      I’d give 2-4 weeks of notice. It would take a while for the money to clear and for me to build my dream home and all that.

    6. Audiophile*

      I’ve often joked that I’d just call in and say “see ya!”. Now that I’m in a job that I genuinely like and people I enjoy working with, I’d probably give 2 weeks notice. This way, on the off chance that, there’s a worst case scenario down the line, I’d have a positive reference.

      1. Ama*

        I really, really like my current job and my department is currently understaffed, so I’d do something along Turanga Leela’s lines only with a very generous replacement time and an offer to stay for a set amount of time to train my replacement (I work in nonprofit so depending on the size of the windfall I might also arrange for a big gift on my way out the door).

        My last job I would have handled things professionally and given notice but I would not have offered any post-replacement training or a donation of any size. I actually would have been sorely tempted at that job to just call in and say “I’m not coming back,” but we had a colleague do that — not for lottery reasons — and although I didn’t like the job much I liked my colleagues enough not to do that to them twice.

        1. Audiophile*

          I’m in a nonprofit too, but brand new basically. Today marks 1 month! There’s no point in my offering to train someone, because well there’s nothing for me to impart.

          But I definitely wouldn’t just up and quit, without notice. I’d absolutely give a donation and a sizable one at that.

    7. Who Watches the Watcher's?*

      I wouldn’t give any kind of notice until I had all my new financial ducks in a row. Taxes, savings, trust funds, etc. And then once I had everything all settled up, I’d give notice. Probably a longer one than two weeks, I’d probably give four.

      But, I’d still want a job. Probably a part time one.

    8. Lily in NYC*

      Ha, we were just talking about this in my dept. I told everyone I would only give notice so I can walk around the office and show off my new fancy solid gold shoes and dress made out of diamonds. But honestly, I would probably give notice but I doubt I would be able to be very productive.

    9. GOG11*

      If I were to leave my job, I would give two weeks’ notice. You might not need a reference from them, but I’d feel like it’s the right thing to do (and besides, who knows, you may find yourself bored and want to go back to work to fill your time, realize you found your work fulfilling and are missing that, run out of money, etc.).

    10. Sascha*

      I would wait until I am absolutely certain the money is my possession before quitting, because I’m just that kind of paranoid person. At that point, I’d probably give 4 weeks notice – a little extra so my team could get a replacement and I could have some extra time to document everything, but I would definitely not stay longer than that. Then I’d build my bamboo farm.

        2. Boop*

          Pandas eat bamboo. Koalas eat eucalyptus – and live in Australia which is probably where I would go live!

            1. Sascha*

              With that much money, I could have a panda-bamboo-koala-eucalyptus farm! Now how do I import some pandas…

    11. Dasha*

      This is a fun question! I hear if you do get a windfall not tell anyone but like your parents and SO (or you will be swarmed!). I would give two weeks notice out of professional courtesy even if it wasn’t a great job. I think I’d just be super duper vague about why I was leaving and I wouldn’t mention the lottery thing.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        I think that the swarming is going to happen, one way or the other. Whether they have your address or not.

        If I were managing someone who just won the lottery, I’d probably just tell them to go, use their vacation time and get out. Not because I’d be unhappy for them, but more because as soon as it hit the news, there would be phone calls, people dropping by, looking for the lottery winner and the easiest thing to say would be “I’m sorry, Jane no longer works here, for obvious reasons.” Also, their mind just would not be in the game. I know mine wouldn’t be.

        As for having a job — with that kind of money, you could make whatever job you wanted for yourself. Keeping your old job wouldn’t be necessary, unless you want to buy the company. ;)

    12. Red Wheel*

      I would call in the day following actual receipt of lottery funds and tell them that I am never coming in again. Never ever.

    14. LizB*

      Honestly, I don’t know if I’d quit my job even if I won the lottery… I get terrible cabin fever if I have to go more than a week or so with nothing to do. I might ask to drop to part-time, or try and negotiate for a leave of absence in a year or so to do some traveling. If I did quit outright, I’d still give two weeks’ notice, because that’s just the polite thing to do.

      2. Gandalf the Nude*

        I was looking for someone else to say this. I’d just keep on like usual except I’d take a lot more weekend trips to everywhere and eat out a lot more! I wouldn’t even tell anyone. They can find out when they read the will, haha!

      3. Shannon*

        Well, remember, you wouldn’t have to stick with your job, either. You could volunteer, go back to school for your dream job, or even get a different job that you’d always wanted to try.

        1. LizB*

          I actually like my current job a lot! It’s exactly what I want to be doing right now. It would be nice to know that if I ever got bored or didn’t like it anymore, I could quit and not worry about searching for something else to pay the bills, though.

      4. Oryx*

        Yup. I like my job and I think I’d like it even more if I knew that I had the financial security to quit at a moment’s notice if I wanted to, but I’d totally keep working.

        1. LizB*

          True, and I have them, but I would go equally stir-crazy doing cross-stitch or playing board games for most of my week. :) I like my job.

    16. Adam V*

      I would probably spend a couple of months setting everything up (trust funds, accounts I can’t touch, etc.) and then give notice once everything was done. What’s two more weeks when you won’t have to work again the rest of your life?

    17. ThatGirl*

      I like my manager and my team a lot, so I would quietly let them know I was planning to leave, but not give notice until I had my financial planning all set up.

      1. De Minimis*

        I would give a few weeks notice, though I would also follow the advice to put the money in a blind trust and never go public as a lottery winner. I wouldn’t even tell them the real reason I was leaving, I’d just say I decided the job wasn’t for me and am going to pursue other opportunities.

        I’m also fairly new in my position though, and my company seems eager [perhaps too eager] to hire temps for a lot of the work, so I guess they could just do that.

        1. Adam V*

          > never go public as a lottery winner

          Unfortunately in a lot of cases (I think especially in multi-state lotteries) you have to agree to some amount of publicity if you win.

        2. ThatGirl*

          Unfortunately Adam V is right, in many states you have to agree to some publicity to claim your winnings. So I’d also be ready to take an immediate vacation after collecting the money.

          1. De Minimis*

            I guess I’ve always lived in states where you could remain anonymous, though I think what happens is you basically create a trust that claims the prize.

        3. Someone Else*

          If you take a lump sum, you have to agree to the publicity that they have on the lottery site, if you take the annuity payments, you can remain anonymous. I’ve spent a lot of time researching this since my biggest pet peeve is fair weather friends.

          1. Someone Else*

            Except in a few states that mandate that the lottery release the info to anyone who asks. :( My state is one of these.

    18. Noah*

      I think I would keep working. Maybe request to slowly move to part-time or consulting instead but I would want to keep working. I enjoy my job and career.

      I would however make full use of my vacation time and have awesome vacations.

      1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

        My lotto dream would be to quit my job, but then work as a small town librarian.

          1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

            I think I would go the “anonymous benefactor” route with it :)

        2. Doriana Gray*

          OMG, that is my dream too! I loved working at the library when I was in college. I really should have tried to make a go of that as a career (getting my Masters in Library Sciences).

          1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

            Me too!

            I often wonder what I would be doing if I had gotten an MLS instead.

            1. Doriana Gray*

              Yeah, I just came across a job posting for a Youth Program Coordinator at my local library and was so sad my little 2 1/2 years of part-time librarian assistantship experience would never qualify me for a position like that. I’d love to be a teen librarian. Or a reference librarian (I’m obsessed with research).

    19. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

      My former boss hated people saying, “if I got hit by a bus” in conversations about documentation and cross-training, so she requested we all said, “if I won the lottery.”

      If I were still in my former positions, I would give notice and stay on as long as they needed to hire someone, but in my current situation I’d probably send a “bye Felicia” email and never come back.

      1. Connie-Lynne*

        We say “abducted by aliens” because one time the person I was taking over from DID get hit by a car!

        1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

          Oh! That’s a good one! I always felt like most people who won the lotto would give notice, so it lost the immediate impact.

          And…yikes!

    20. Person of Interest*

      I think I’ve heard that lottery winners who handle it successfully don’t make any big changes for a while – like several months – until you have your ducks in a row and have time to really think about what you want to do. I would probably commit to staying in my job for a few more months before thinking about making a big change (but I love my job and it’s a small nonprofit, so I wouldn’t want to just up and leave anyway.) I might quietly give up my salary though, knowing how much it matters to our small budget.

      1. Red Wheel*

        Makes sense but I would still spend that time thinking at home, in my PJs. I would sooo not come into this office ever again.

        1. Red Wheel*

          Also, my ultimate goal would be to establish a charitable foundation so I would spend that time, in my PJs, researching ways to implement the foundation and brainstorming the best ways to reach the underserved populations that I would want to help. By continuing to report to my current office, I would only be helping my employer continue to make obscene amounts of money and current employer is definitely NOT a charitable foundation.

          1. Artemesia*

            We made our bit plans for the lottery 30 years ago when our kids were young and we were visiting a state with a lottery and bought a ticket. The kids were basically spending the money so we talked about how we would handle lottery winnings. And the plan is still in place: we would have is dispersed in 5 shares — one for each family member and one for a charitable trust. And in those days, the kids share went into trust with them having X amount to blow on anything they wanted. Silly — but if we win 500 million this weekend, that is what we would still do (I bought a couple of tickets for Wednesday — not a single number match — I am not making specific plans for the 500 million but will probably buy a ticket — I always think of the tickets as contributions to the state education funds)

      2. Turanga Leela*

        Right, your first call if you win the lottery should be to a reputable financial planner. You invest your money, make sure you’re set for retirement and your kids’ college,* and have the planner put you on an allowance. You do maybe one big, fun splurge purchase, but generally make sure you’re living within your means. Otherwise it’s easy to wind up broke and/or unhappy.

        *My biggest initial expense would be college funds for many, many kids I know. Friends’ kids, my nieces and nephews, a couple of former students… My favorite lottery-related fantasy is being able to call my friends and tell them they don’t have to worry about college savings or financial aid ever again.

        1. Master Bean Counter*

          I figure at least half of my winners would go into a scholarship trust fund for future generations of my family.

        2. Hlyssande*

          I’d pay off my parents’ debts first, then my brothers’ and mine, and buy a new (moderately priced) car. The rest can go into savings and sit there for interest. Yesssss.

    21. Anna*

      I think it honestly depends on the job I’m in. I love where I work, so I’d give notice and probably work until they had a new person and I had trained them completely. If it was at my former employer, my notice would have been “I won the lottery and will not be in ever again, ever.” And then I would have taken my coworkers out for a fabulous dinner, because the job sucked and my boss was crazy, but I liked the people I worked with.

    22. Jubilance*

      I’d give notice and act normal. If I did win a huge lottery, I’d keep my entire life normal, and I wouldn’t tell anyone except my lawyer and financial planner. Once the check clears and I have my money, I’m dropping off the grid. So I’d work my notice period and pretend that I’m moving onto a new position, when really my next job will be to travel and knit all day.

      1. Jennifer*

        I think I’d do something like that, but I wouldn’t give notice until I had the check first.

        I wouldn’t want anyone to know I won, but I do worry about how they publicize it.

        But since I don’t play and don’t think I would ever win if I did, it doesn’t matter :P

    23. Betty (the other Betty)*

      I’m self employed doing graphic design. If I won half a billion dollars?

      I’d stop taking on new projects and would let all my clients know that I was closing my business. I would hire people to do the work I was already committed to while I organized my new wealthy life (I could supervise). Shouldn’t be a problem getting quality help since I could pay a good amount (and not worry about how much the client was paying me).

      I’d refer clients to other designers I know to take on on-going work. I have some clients on monthly or yearly service contracts, so I’d probably pay someone else to finish those out.

      At the same time, I would hire other people to help close out the business and send info and files to clients or to new designers.

      It would probably take about a month and I would be done! Then I’d start on setting up my foundation, first to pay for college for all the kids in the family, then to make the world a better place.

      Clearly I have also thought about this a bit too much.

    24. F.*

      Based on the experiences of other winners of very large lottery payouts, I wouldn’t tell anyone other than my husband, not even family (we have some drug addicts, etc.) We would quietly and quickly get all of our financial and legal ducks in a row, too. Knowing how slowly my company works to fill open positions, and being the entire HR department, I would give four weeks of notice. I would hope that would give me a chance to work with my replacement for more than the NINE HOURS of training that I received. I genuinely like and respect most of my colleagues here and wouldn’t want to screw them over. I wouldn’t tell them why I was leaving, just to “pursue other opportunities.” Then I would not be employed another day in my life! I have many interests, charities and hobbies, and would have absolutely no trouble staying busy the rest of my life!

      1. F.*

        I think another thing I would do with some of the $500,000,000 is buy the company from my current employer. I know he’s had offers, and I think I know how much it would take, so it would be entirely doable. I work with a lot of good people, and I’d like to be able to give them a chance to succeed and to build the company into the vision that my immediate boss and I and another colleague have to make it very successful. (boy, I must REALLY be dreaming!)

    25. Lucky*

      I love this question, though now I’ll be daydreaming all day.

      I would call out for the day – probably from the state lottery office, just to make sure it was official. Then, being that I like my job and care about the company and my reputation and connections, I’d offer to stay on part-time, with occasional days off for historic mansion-hunting, spa visits and charitable foundation planning, until my replacement was hired and trained, and since my company is non-profit-adjacent, I’d donate my salary to one of our charity partners.

      Then, I would start my international jet-setting life. How many vacation homes is too many? I don’t want to appear gauche.

    26. Dorth Vader*

      I honestly wouldn’t leave my job. In fact, it would give me the ability to stay as long as they need me to since money wouldn’t be an object. I’d also be taking the installments instead of one lump sum (something about so I don’t spend it all on yarn) so I could work my way up to paying off debt, buying working cars, buying property, building my dream house, etc.

    27. ali*

      I’d take a week or two of vacation as immediately as I could without seriously hurting my coworker, but I don’t think I’d quit entirely. I’d have to think long and hard about what to do about health insurance and all of the group benefits I get through my job. I probably would ask to reduce my hours to whatever the minimum is for keeping benefits.

      But I really like my job, and I feel good about doing it. I would be bored without it, no matter how much money I had.

      1. ThatGirl*

        You could easily afford health insurance and other benefits if you had a crapton of money…

        My husband once told his coworkers he’d want to keep working for awhile even if he won the lottery, and one said “but wouldn’t you want someone who needs the money to have the job?”

        1. 42*

          >>but wouldn’t you want someone who needs the money to have the job?<<

          That's actually an excellent angle that I hadn't heard of.

          1. ThatGirl*

            Right? I mean, not that anyone should be guilted into quitting, but this was during the recession and he thought “yeah, actually, that’s a good point…”

        2. Turanga Leela*

          Eh, I’m not a fan of that kind of reasoning. There’s no finite number of jobs in the world, and even if you want to think about it in these terms, there are a lot of other considerations you could take into account. My partner and I could probably afford to have one of us quit and just live off the other one’s salary, but we are good at our jobs and it helps our employers (and the communities they serve) to have us on board. We give a fair amount of money to local nonprofits.

          1. Turanga Leela*

            Argh, got cut off. Point is, I don’t think it’s helpful to think about whether you should have a job in terms of who needs the income more.

          2. ThatGirl*

            There were a finite number of jobs at his workplace, though.

            I mean, I’m talking circumstances where we win hundreds of millions of dollars and would absolutely not need either of our salaries. Not “well, I guess I COULD quit…”

        3. Persephone*

          I would probably invest in my company (it’s a small company) so they can hire more people.

        4. ali*

          Affording health insurance and qualifying for decent health insurance are different things, hence needing to think long and hard about it first. I definitely do not qualify for life insurance outside of group policies, although I suppose if you win enough, you don’t need life insurance. While I can get health coverage on the marketplace, I can’t get coverage that is of the same quality I can get through my workplace. I guess I’d have to move to a state that has better marketplace options. Even with a crapton of money, I’d prefer to spend it on things like giving to charity than giving to pharmacuetical companies.

          But that is a good point about people who need the money more. I already spend a lot of time doing volunteer work, I guess I could quit my job and do more of that instead.

        5. Not So NewReader*

          That presumes the only reason people have jobs is because they want the money. I know plenty of retirees that totally hate retirement and take a part time job just to fill up their time and get to see people.

          Annnd I read a study one time that suggested a connection between early retirement and early health issues. People who retire younger get sicker sooner.

          If a person feels that conflicted about taking a job away from someone else, a person could do something with their new wealth to create jobs for people. In the process of doing this, the person would also create work for herself because someone would have to watch the new venture.

    28. Professionally Anon*

      I was thinking about this after I bought my ticket this morning. Most likely I’d still work because I enjoy what I do even if I hate some aspects of it. I would be willing to donate some money to my University only if it was used in a way (repairing buildings, hiring necessary personnel, etc.) that I recommended instead of burning through it in other ways.

    29. Elizabeth West*

      I wouldn’t give notice right away. It would take a few weeks at LEAST, probably more like a couple of months, to get everything sorted–financial planning, deciding on annuity vs. payout, actually getting the money, etc. I would tell no one. I wouldn’t want anyone to know because then they’d bug me for money. Only when all my ducks were in a row would I give notice.

    30. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      If I were leaving (which I wouldn’t do at this point – I genuinely enjoy my job! – although I may ask to reduce my hours or something), I’d give a very extended notice. Like, three months or something. Give them time to do whatever reorging or hiring they want to do, help with the hiring process, etc.

      My work is rather cyclical, so if I were in a key part of the cycle I’d wait until that ended and THEN give an extended notice.

    31. katamia*

      It would depend on how much I won. A million? I’d keep working unless I really loathed my job but invest some in rental property or a side business or something. 100 million? I’d give my notice pretty much right away unless I really felt motivated to stick it out a little bit longer (like if I were tutoring, I might wait until the end of the school year).

    32. Anonymous for this*

      I actually dated someone who’s mom won a substantial amount of money through an office lottery pool (I think it was just over a million a person, split among 12 people?). So certainly enough money to make you not really have to worry about money, but not, like, “retire to a private Caribbean island” money. A couple of things I learned based on that experience:

      1) It can take a fair amount of time to actually get the money, especially if there are any issues with how many people are entitled to that money. In this case, since it was an office pool, there were people who hadn’t bought tickets for that jackpot, but then thought they should get a cut because they were part of the pool. Legal issues like that take a long time to sort out, so you’re looking at about a month before you actually get the money and therefore a little while before you know exactly how much money you’re getting (after taxes etc.).

      2) Related to number 1, if you do participate in an office lottery pool, make sure you’ve got some iron-clad rules for that pool, and ideally, that everyone has signed something stating that they agree to the rules. Otherwise you’ll be in for a world of drama.

      3) Winning a lottery jackpot can change people, often for the worse. But I watched a hard-working, middle class family turn into the worst sort of entitled, snobby elitists because of a windfall they did nothing to earn (other than being extremely lucky). We broke up shortly after the lottery win basically because of this. For that reason, if I was to win the lottery I’d work really really hard at maintaining a reasonable standard of living and not going crazy with luxury cars and designer clothing.

      4) I would tell as few people as possible about it.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        There are ways to handle money so that one does not become a snob. The problem is that it takes time to learn how to do that and most people would rather just spend the money. Many lottery winners do not make out well in the long run.

    33. 42*

      These are all great replies, thanks for joining in on my thought exercise.

      I’m getting my ticket tonight, so if I happen to split the pot with any of you, let me know and I’ll save you a bar stool in Rio.

    34. Carrie in Scotland*

      That is so strange as the UK lotto is over £50 million for the jackpot just now…

      As for the money: would work my notice (4 weeks) at some point after winning. Would not be doing a no show/no call

    35. Clever Name*

      We actually have an office pool going, and we signed a contract where one of the lines was something like, “If we win, don’t be a jerk and sue your fellow employees”. If I were to quit, I guess I’d stay and transition/finish all of my current projects, but honestly, I really love my job, so I’m not sure I’d quit. I’d just enjoy not having to worry about money and vacation in Hawaii every year. And get a new car. And fund a trust for my son’s education. And remodel our bathroom and make a man-cave in the basement for my husband. :)

    36. Analyst*

      I’m in a pool with my whole department. Our boss said we can’t all quit on the same day when we win. I’d do an honest two weeks.

    37. LibraryChick*

      I would give two weeks notice. I would definitely not tell anyone that I had won the lottery. Then, I would leave the country for a while so no one could contact me while I made decisions about what to do with the money.

    38. Glasskey*

      I would compose a very professional resignation letter, which would arrive scrawled on a coconut sent by private jet, smeared with sunblock and smelling of Dom Perrignon, plumeria, and mangoes. (Thank you for asking; I now have a big stupid grin on my face.)

        1. Windchime*

          I agree. I think any amount over $1M would probably blow my mind anyway. I can’t conceive of having much more than that–it would stress me out.

    40. Minion*

      You know, I think a lot about what I’d do with my lottery winnings, which seems kind of strange because I’ve never played the lottery in my life and have no intention of ever doing so. Doesn’t stop me from dreaming, though.

      I think I’d give a 2 week notice. I probably should give more, but I’m not feeling particularly charitable about my organization right now. But, like someone said upthread, I’d definitely call in on the first day and spend it sipping champagne in my jammies.

    41. Bea W*

      Depends on the kind of relationship you have with the people you work with and whether or not you care about burning bridge or leaving a good/bad impression.

      If it were me, and I decided to stop working I’d give notice and take time to transition everything. I’ve thought about this though and I’m not sure I leave my job or at least not right away. I would have left the last one in a heatbeat though. It was toxic.

    42. Retail Lifer*

      If happened during my previous job, I would have finished out the current week and then told them I’m done. Taking off and never coming back wouldn’t have affected the people that I wouldn’t mind screwing over; it would have affected my own employees, who I liked very much. I wouldn’t tell them I won the lottery, though. There are so many people and causes who could desperately use some of that money, but I’d keep it under wraps until I decided what to do with it. Ideally, I’d pay off my debt, buy a house, help out some family members, donate some, and invest the rest. Then I’d work part-time, get back into volunteering, and maybe finally travel somewhere.

    43. Kassy*

      I think because of your concerns about leaving your team in a bind, giving notice is probably best. I would even do it if that were not the case, because you never know if you might want to return to working someday- people do it!

    44. Lizabeth*

      First, I would continue to work, either at the current place or start a job search.
      Second, I would set up some sort of trust or holding company (not sure if these are the right terms) in order to protect my identity before claiming the winning ticket.
      Third, I would wait 6-8 months before claiming the winning ticket. During that time I would be thinking about what type of non-profit charity to set up to use some of the money.

    45. Small town reporter*

      Despite the fact that I LOVE what I do, I am not 100 percent in love with where I do it. If I won the lottery, I’d keep working until all the legal/tax implications were taken care of the, money was properly invested, etc. I’d help train a replacement for my job here, because this is a great community. And then I’d head back to the tropical paradise where I lived for nearly a decade, buy a house in a cute town, enroll my kids in the best private school I’ve ever encountered (the kids there routinely go on to interesting careers and outstanding colleges, but what I like the most are the cool, hands-on learning projects they do and the fact that I’ve never interviewed a kid who went there who wasn’t fantastically articulate and incredibly interesting) and then start my own independent news blog covering the news there. The newspapers I worked for there were sold (which is why I left) and the quality has declined. I could hire my old editor to be my boss again and we could muckrake without need to sell ads. I would be busy, engaged in the community, working with someone I respect in a place I love and I could go to the beach every weekend.

    46. Wakeen's Teapots, Ltd.*

      Wouldn’t quit.

      Might see if I could invest and build a globally dominating teapot company called “Wakeen’s & Me Teapots, Unlimited”.

      Would DEFINITELY stop saying “I’ll never retire” though!!

    47. Ghost Town*

      Husband and I have talked about this sort of thing, and the plan varies according to the projected payout, but in general, for a large windfall, they involve paying off debt; lawyers/financial planners; trusts for child[ren], nieces, and nephews; paying off homes for family members; and donations. The amount dictates whether or not we’d keep our jobs.

      Even if we got the super windfall, I’d give at least 2 weeks notice b/c I like where I am, and staff are thin on the ground.

    48. Not So NewReader*

      Kind of a random thought, but I think it would be sooo cool to read in the paper about a family losing their home and be able to call someone and say, “Get that family a house, I am paying for it.” Or read of a kid that needs spendy medical procedure and just sit down and write a freakin’ check- that would be so awesome.

    49. Menacia*

      This is funny because almost the entire IT department went in on Powerball. Even the head of the department (who is also the head of HR). Of course she could not resist in telling us that if we win, we can’t leave until we’ve found our replacements! ;) This is the same person who wished out loud that she could clone me…um, yeah, I ain’t spending my winnings on *that*! I can honestly say I’ve never dreamed about winning the lottery, I’m just too darned logical.

      Good luck to everyone who bought a ticket!

  8. Momnonymous*

    I think this is a work question—at any rate, it’s a working parent question…
    Just put my kid in day care, and I’d love advice from anyone who has been there. He’s less than a year old and has been having trouble napping there. He wants to be cuddled while he sleeps, and if you put him down, he wakes up and starts bawling. We can’t let him cry it out in a room full of other napping babies. When he doesn’t nap, it throws off his whole schedule, he gets too tired to eat, and he comes home exhausted, hungry, and cranky.

    My schedule is more flexible than my partner’s, so if one of us has to come pick him up early, that winds up being me, and it’s just not an option anymore—I’m already feeling behind at work. Any thoughts (general or specific) on starting your kid in day care as a working parent?

    1. Coffee Ninja*

      What’s your son’s sleep behavior like at home? You mention he wants to be cuddled while he sleeps, and that you “can’t let him cry it out” at daycare. Do you do these things with him when he naps/sleeps at home? If so, you might have to begin acclimating him to a different routine. If there is a way you can create more consistency between his home & daycare environments, that might help.

      1. Adam V*

        This – during Christmas, my wife took our son out of town and he had trouble sleeping unless she would hold him. Once we got home, this behavior continued, so on January 1 we started forcing him to fall asleep on his own – at first we’d check in on him after he’d been screaming for a few minutes, to make sure he had a pacifier and to lay him back down, but gradually we lengthened the time between visits, and now we try hard not to go in there after he’s down.

      2. Momnonymous*

        At night, it’s cuddling, then I put him down, he cries briefly (usually less than five minutes), then he falls asleep. The day care employees, who are wonderful, would be happy to cuddle him while he falls asleep; it’s the few minutes of crying when they put him down that’s the problem.

        During daytime naps, we often hold him the whole time, which I realize is going to have to change. It’s going to be hard, though. Even at home, he sleeps better and longer when he’s held (90+ minutes held vs 45 minutes in his crib), he’s happier afterward, and we love holding him.

        1. Guam Mom*

          My kiddo did the same thing from about 3-5 months (he’s now 8 months); napped best when held, woke up after 45 minutes during daytime nap, was a very light sleeper during the day. What helped was treating each daytime nap like his bedtime. We dimmed the lights, put on his nightlight, sang his good night song, and then let him fuss for a few minutes. I think it took about three weekends, but eventually he was napping regularly and for 90-120 minutes, twice daily, even at daycare. If he woke up at the 45 minute mark (which I think is a full sleep cycle for him?) he got pretty good at going right back to sleep without fussing. Now he’s on a schedule and he just starts to get sleepy at the same time of day, so we can skip the longer routine for daytime naps, give him a quick cuddle to relax him, and then set him in his crib. He occasionally rolls around or babbles to himself for a few minutes, but no crying. The key for us was finding that sweet spot between sleepy/relaxed but not yet asleep for transferring from arms to crib–my guess is that it makes the transition less jarring than being transferred after falling asleep? But who knows–my kid speaks this made-up language that I just cannot understand despite hours of study :P
          Good luck, though, and hang in there.

          1. Momnonymous*

            I have to get better at finding that sweet spot and sticking to it. I was really disciplined about it a few months ago, when I was teaching the kid to sleep in his crib at home, and it seemed to work. More recently, I’ve been letting him fall asleep while I hold him, which I agree makes the transition more jarring. (And I read in some book that moving kids when they’re totally asleep is also confusing for them when they wake up, because they wonder where you went and how they got in their crib.)

            1. Guam Mom*

              That makes sense. We call our car the “baby time machine” because he always falls asleep in it and wakes up at another time and place :)
              Good luck with everything. The first few weeks of daycare/work were exhausting for me, but it got a lot better around the one month mark. Hang in there!

        2. Observer*

          That definitely needs to change. Even if you didn’t have to get him used to day care, it’s really not a great thing for a child not to be able to fall asleep without being held. (I’m not talking about a child who is not well, obviously.)

          The fact that he cries when you put him down says that he’s actually NOT sleeping all the well when you hold him. So that’s another issue as well.

          1. Momnonymous*

            I don’t know that the second part is true. To put him down, I have to lift him over the side of the crib and then lower him 2-ish feet onto a fairly firm mattress. He can feel that he’s being lowered and that there’s a shift in temperature. I’d wake up if someone tried to move me in my sleep.

            1. Observer*

              I’m fairly sure that in day care that’s not how they are putting him in his crib. Also, even the way you describe it, I would expect hos to not wake up enough to start actually crying. Maybe a mewl and then back to sleep.

              1. Momnonymous*

                I don’t want to be snarky, but that is in fact exactly how they are putting him in his crib.

                1. Observer*

                  They are lifting him that high and lowering him that low? Very surprising that the cribs are set up that way.

                  In any case, the second half of what I said still stands.

      3. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Maybe acclimate him to napping on/with a fuzzy blanket — first, put it between you and him and cuddle him at home, but eventually the feel of the wubby might be enough.

        1. Momnonymous*

          I may try this. The teachers also suggested leaving a shirt that I’ve worn for him to snuggle, so that he can be comforted by my smell. I don’t think that’s the issue—he’ll fall asleep on anyone—but I’m willing to try a bunch of things and see what sticks.

    2. Betty (the other Betty)*

      Just some ideas: is the daycare close enough to work that you could go there on your lunch break? Time the lunch break with nap time so you can help him get to sleep?

      Work on sleep habits at home: Could you start to ease off on cuddling while he falls asleep at home? You could still be there, just try to get him used to falling asleep without you actually touching him the whole time.

      Also make sure your day off schedules are similar to daycare day schedules, so nap time falls at about the same time.

      Will the daycare let him nap in a swing or one of those vibrating bouncy seats? Sometimes the motion helps put babies to sleep. It worked for my kiddo (at home). Unfortunately the swing we had was a wind-up one (not plug in or battery operated), so as the swing started slowing, I had to wind it back up as fast as possible and hope to get it going again before the wind up noise woke him up. Fun times…

      1. Momnonymous*

        Meant to reply to this earlier: Thanks for the suggestions! I don’t really get a lunch break, so that won’t work, and anyway I’m not sure my presence is helpful. I’m not any better at putting the baby down than the teachers are (in fact, I think they’re better).

        I’m laughing at the image of the swing. He had something like that when he was younger and loved it. I think they’re going to try something similar in the day care, although at this point he just doesn’t like being put in things and will cry briefly but loudly at the transition regardless—swings, seats, crib, high chair, car seat… I’m making him sound like a difficult kid, but he’s pretty sunny, just independent.

    3. 42*

      I’d start by incrementally tapering the cuddling at sleep/nap times at home, so he can settle by himself. I know that’s a tough one; I went through it myself, but the payoff was wonderful.

      1. HobbitFan*

        These are all good suggestions. My input is to make sure the problem is only differences in approaching his nap habits. To make a long story short, my grandchildren were in a daycare for over 3 years and cried every day. After switching to another child care provider (a wonderful woman who watches children in her home), everything changed for the better and the tears stopped. I don’t believe the children were happy at their particular day care and did not feel safe and secure. So I guess I’d want to rule out any other factors that might be adding to his displeasure. Hope things work out good for everyone soon!

    4. Kyrielle*

      Bouncy chairs/swings helped my kiddos. But also, the daycare *dealt with their needs*. In point of fact, staff at this day care (it is a large center with rooms by age) often take breaks in the infant room so they can cuddle the really little ones, because they find cuddling a sleeping baby calming. :)

      Working on sleep schedule at home, etc., may help – but also, I’m just boggled that the day care can’t deal with it and make it work….

      1. Momnonymous*

        I’m hoping they can get it to work eventually. There have to be other kids who have had trouble with this. However, some of the tricks I’ve seen them use with other kids won’t work with my kid—he sleeps lightly, so he’ll wake up when you move him, and pacifiers do nothing for him.

        The funny thing is that I’m used to thinking of him as an easy, good-natured kid. He mostly is! But apparently the naptime routine at day care isn’t a good fit right now.

    5. Mockingjay*

      It depends on who drops off and who picks up. My husband and I worked it out, based on working hours.

      I went into work later, so I dropped off.
      He went into work earlier, so he got off earlier and did pick up. This minimized the daily hours our baby was in day care.

      The other thing we did, was to keep the same wakeup, meal, nap, and bed times on the weekend to keep her sleep cycle consistent. [We alternated sleeping in to give ourselves a break – I slept in Saturdays while he got up with her, then he slept Sundays.] This made a HUGE difference on Monday mornings!

      And, starting daycare is a hard adjustment for a little guy. He’s going to cry until he learns to block out the noise and fall asleep by himself. Remember he’s warm, fed, and safe, even as he wails. Give it a week or two, and see how he does.

    6. Perpetuum Mobile*

      Unfortunately my family has only one recipe: the best daycare you can find and/or afford. By “the best” I mean the best possible ratio of staff to children (for his age group I’d be shooting for 3/1 as ideal and 4/1 or 5/1 as less ideal but acceptable but no more than 6/1), and of course the most wonderful, kind and understanding teachers who if they can (see my previous point) wouldn’t mind giving your son some extra time and efforts. It’s very much a matter of luck, in addition to availability and affordability.

      My kid was at home with me for 3 months while I was on maternity leave, then with our wonderful neighbor for almost 7 months so she was 10 months when our circumstances changes and she had to go to daycare. We were super happy that by that time she was used to a certain independence, e.g. no cuddling to fall asleep.

      1. Momnonymous*

        I will say I love my son’s teachers and the general atmosphere and philosophy of the day care. The ratio at this place is 4/1. We didn’t have a lot of options for infant day care, but we are very happy with this one (and it was, in fact, more expensive than the alternatives).

    7. Analyst*

      No advice, just sympathy. This was us three years ago… my kid was a stubborn mule about sleeping at daycare and had to be held. We had an extremely sympathetic staff, 4/1 ratio, and they did commit to holding her as much as possible. There were still some times especially earlier on where I’d get a call around 3pm or so that she hadn’t slept yet. So the husband or I (usually me) raced out of work to her and brought her home and of course she passed out at home no problem. That happened maybe 5 or 6 times total.

      Hang in there; it gets better. FWIW, I could’ve sworn I was a terrible employee during that time… exhausted, leaving early, kid who was sick frequently… I got a stellar performance review about 6 months into that. I hope your boss is a parent who gets that this stuff just happens sometimes and the baby stage in life is brief.

      1. Momnonymous*

        Thanks. My boss is also a parent and has been very flexible and sympathetic. I also feel like a terrible employee, but my boss says I am doing great work, which is confusing but gratifying.

    8. Angela*

      Hmm…what are the ratios like in the rooms? The daycare that my kid’s went to did nap time all together and it seems like there should be enough daycare workers on hand to help your little one fall asleep with the others laying down. And it could be that environment is not for him. I switched my kid to an in-home daycare because I thought it would be better for him to have less kids, and it turns out he needed the rigid structure of a center that you don’t always see in a home-based care provider. So I switched him back, and he went back to his normal self.

    9. Dr. Johnny Fever*

      You say that the daycare workers have a problem with him crying while sleeping. But babies cry! It’s what they do!

      I’ve been there, and I find this odd. When mine was wee and in the infant room, each provider held, rocked, swung, or just rubbed a baby’s back to get to sleep. Crying was not a problem. It was accepted. Kids have all different routines, and it takes time for any infant to adjust to the daycare schedule. They aren’t giving your baby a chance to get comfortable with the new space, the new faces, and the new routine.

      I’m not certain if the daycare workers are out of line, or if you are feeling so attached that you don’t feel comfortable letting your baby cry it out in daycare. If it’s based on comfort level, then that’s completely understandable. You’ll both get through it, but you’ll need to let him get used to the daycare routine so he can settle.

      1. pieces of flair*

        You know, this is what I was thinking. It’s really not unusual for babies to need a few minutes of crying before they fall asleep. They daycare should have strategies for dealing with different sleep needs, such as putting the child who cries down a few minutes early, putting the light sleeper in the crib farthest from the door, etc. I wouldn’t waste any emotional energy feeling guilty that your child is “ruining naptime”; he’s just being a normal quirky human baby in a facility designed to care for human babies. If the daycare staff is telling you that they “can’t” let him cry it out in a roomful of napping babies, and therefore he doesn’t get to nap, it’s not a very good daycare.

        Anyway, he will probably adjust to the daycare routine relatively quickly. I have a toddler who will only nap while being held at home, but she’s learned that daycare has different rules and she naps on her cot there just fine. Give it a few weeks.

        1. Momnonymous*

          I think they’re going to try putting him down first next week. I’ll be back to let people know how it goes…

        2. Momnonymous*

          Thought I’d add: it’s not that they’ve said he can’t cry, it’s that I’ve observed them not letting him cry. If he starts to cry, they scoop him back up so he doesn’t wake the other babies, which means that he doesn’t get to transition from crying to sleeping. They do the same thing with the other babies, but they seem to sleep more soundly, which might be innate or might be due to other circumstances (some of them have higher cribs because they can’t stand yet, some of them use pacifiers, etc., etc.).

    10. overeducated and underemployed*

      How close to a year is he? We are having issues with our one year old getting to sleep at night sometimes, and the only way we’ve been able to get him to sleep without holding him is by putting him in the crib in a calm mood and getting him to play on his own with a book and a soft toy. He sometimes gets mad briefly when we leave the room, but he will NOT put himself to sleep with one of us there watching him. If he’s on the older side, could your kid start to get used to the crib/cot at day care as a quiet play place while awake, without having to nap?

      1. Momnonymous*

        He’s about ten months. That’s worth trying. Mine won’t fall asleep with me in the room either. If I’m nearby but not holding him, he just gets upset that I’m not picking him up.

        1. overeducated and underemployed*

          Sounds familiar! Honestly he started napping at day care on his own a lot more easily than with us, but our provider wasn’t putting him down asleep, she was putting him down sleepy and he somehow learned to get to sleep on his own there many, many months before he would do that at home. So if he feels safe and ok about being in the crib awake, it might help. Good luck! This is rough. It may pass soon, you guys just have to get through it.

    11. J.B.*

      Neither of my kids napped in the baby room at all. It sucked and we made up for it as much as possible on the weekend. They are just high energy kids and were too interested in everything going on. They survived and it resolved itself in the toddler room when all kids were napping together. Sorry.

    12. Small town reporter*

      My older son was just a bad napper, period. He would only nap when he was held, and at 18 months took a six-week nap strike. It was pretty awful. When it was done, he was a great napper — two hours, every afternoon, on the bed by himself (this was at our house). So maybe your son just needs a bit more time to adjust and be ready to sleep on his own?
      My younger son, from the minute he started daycare at about 13 months old, would lay down on command and sleep. He’s now 2 and still won’t do that for me, but naps like clockwork at the sitter’s.

    13. Yetanotherjennifer*

      You’re getting lots of good advice here. I’m wondering if he might like to be swaddled. Usually no one but a newborn has time for that but since he loves to sleep while being held it might help.

      I also have a little trick from when my daughter was small and used to wake when she was laid down. The trick is to press your arms/hands down into the mattress as you lay your son down. Keep your arms pressed down as you slide them out from under him. The idea is that he will be supported by most of the mattress while you slide your hands out and won’t notice the mattress bouncing back as much as he notices having to adjust while you remove your arms.

      A couple other things: Keep trying. Even keep trying the same thing before trying something new. I gave up far too easily as a new parent; it can take time to adapt to something new. Sure he may dislike broccoli at the first bite but he will learn to like it. Or someday, the true grown-up skill: learn to eat it even when he doesn’t like it. Second, I like to interpret this type of crying to mean “this is different” vs “I don’t like this.” It’s a small mindshift but it implies that familiarity will improve things. And finally only slightly related: don’t take anything seriously until it happens three times in a row. This mostly applies to sleeping through the night or other behaviors we parents love. The first time he changes a behavior you like, you will worry that he’s given up this behavior forever. But babies are chaotic events and I’ve found that it’s no use fretting until you’ve seen a definite pattern of change.

      1. Momnonymous*

        Thanks! I love the mattress trick, but his mattress is too low (and I’m too short) to make it work. We’re going to try swaddling if he’ll let us, although we haven’t swaddled him since he was tiny.

        I am definitely going to keep trying things! It’s so easy to fall into the mindset of “He doesn’t like broccoli” when he’s tried it once, or “Maybe he didn’t sleep well because we did X yesterday” when there is no way to know. I actually asked my aunt to stop speculating about what caused good/bad nights because it was making me crazy.

    14. Jen*

      How long has it been since he started? Kids can take a while to transition. Mine was in daycare since 3 months, but we switched centers at 18 months and it took 2+ months before she was truly settled.

      Try your best to curb the “snuggle to sleep” behavior at home, both for daycare reasons as well as your own sanity. Mine used to have to be nursed to sleep and as soon as we did cry it out, I kicked myself for not doing it months earlier.

    15. Momnonymous*

      Thank you everyone for the great advice and the sympathy! I’m trying to chill out, remember that an adjustment period is normal and the teachers should be able to handle it, and re-jigger my son’s routine at home. I really thought about overeducated and underemployed’s point about quiet playtime in the crib, and I realized that my kid always, without fail, cries if I put him in his crib, regardless of the time of day, the circumstances, or his mood before. That’s probably because if I put him in the crib, that always means that I’m about to leave him by himself. Today I put him in his crib with some toys and sat with him, and he cried very briefly but then settled in and played. I’m going to keep doing that so that hopefully he can get used to the idea that the crib can be a fun, peaceful place. We’ve got a long way to go (with that, cutting back on cuddles, and getting used to day care), but I will let you all know how it goes!

  9. katamia*

    Anyone familiar with SCORE, especially their mentoring services? A friend of mine mentioned she was thinking of trying to get a mentor through them, and I’m curious about them. Link below in comment.

    2. katamia*

      Not sure if my previous comment with the link posted, so here it is again in case–anyone else getting “duplicate comment” notices when their comments aren’t actually duplicates?

      https://www.score.org/

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I think you got the duplicate comment notice because the system had already accepted your first comment, but it was in moderation due to the link.

    3. Ad Girl*

      I think it would really depend on the chapter of SCORE – I know they can be very different based on who is running the location and what type of mentors are involved.

      Back in 2014 one in a college class that did pro bono work for various area non-profits. Some of classmates worked for SCORE (I fortunately did not) and found that the chapter in my college town was incredibly difficult to work with. Most of their marketing materials/website were incredibly outdated, but they refused to change anything (not sure why they wanted to be a part of the free services if they wouldn’t accept any help). I know they were struggling to recruit younger mentors/engage with a younger audience, but that could’ve just been an issue with this chapter, not others.

  10. the sugar plum fairy*

    I’ve been in my job for six months. My company is in the process of being acquired by a competitor and it’s expected to close by this summer. Since I joined my current team, half of our team members have left the company. We have the same amount of work to do but less people. They are not filling positions as people leave.

    I’m looking for a new position outside of the company. I’m struggling to stay motivated to do my work because I literally have no help and it just feels so fruitless. I know I shouldn’t feel this way but I do. I’m also tired from living in limbo, trying to figure out if I’m going to keep my job – it’s mentally exhausting.

    1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

      It’s really hard to do your best when everything is up and down :(

      I hope you find a great job soon!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t let your self-care slide. Find ways to put good things in to you and your life. Good foods, plenty of water and as much rest as you can get. Yes, laying still counts as rest, even if you do not sleep. You will do this for a while, not forever, then things will change. Hang tough and be strategic. Decide that you are not going to keep your job and that will help you to feel a tiny-tiny bit less exhausted. It will also protect you if, worst case scenario, they do have to let you go because you have planned on a new job anyway.

  11. Coffee Ninja*

    I’m getting my first direct report! I’ve been supervising some specific job functions for a lot of people over the last year or so, but I wasn’t anyone’s actual boss; so this is my first real management opportunity. Any advice? I bought Alison’s book, but I’d love to hear anything you all think would be helpful!

    1. hermit crab*

      I have no advice but I’ll be following this thread! I’m getting my first direct report soon too and I’m not sure how I feel about it.

    2. Joie de Vivre*

      Spend some time thinking about the bosses you’ve had — the good and the bad.
      What made the good stand out? Can you pattern elements of your management style after them?
      What made the bad stand out? What did you learn not to do from watching them?

    3. Not today*

      I’m in a similar place, but I have about 8-12 months before I likely become manager here. Current manager is (finally) putting the non-performer in the group on a PIP to either shape up or ship out. We are starting recruitment to get an experienced person in to backfill my position; luckily, we have an open position.

      I’m reading Alison’s book, it’s been useful and will be more in the future.

    4. Mirabellaninani*

      For me, one of the most significant shifts from employee to manager involved realising that not everyone is like me! Sounds silly and obvious, but actually it’s really important to be aware that other people won’t necessarily motivated by the same things you are, won’t get stressed by the same things, and will have different strengths and weaknesses. Observe them, take an interest and ask questions and you will learn about them. Also, set clear expectations and make sure they understand what good and poor performance look like. (Don’t whack them over the head with this but setting expectations is sooooo important if there are issues later)

    5. some1*

      Get ready for difficult conversations. Alison has great posts in her archives about how to talk to an employee about everything from turning down a vacation request to telling someone they have B.O.

    6. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

      When I was promoted to my first management position, my boss had me read two books, “You Can’t Fire Everyone” by Hank Gilman and “The No Assh*le Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn’t” by Robert I. Sutton.

      He then had asked me what kind of boss I wanted to be. It was incredibly helpful.

      He also had me spend a lot of time thinking about time management and rethinking my own time management strategies. I went from being solo to managing 8 people, so it was quite a jump, but it’s weird when you have to begin thinking about someone else’s schedule and workload in addition to your own. I learned to budget an extra half hour into my tasks due to interruptions.

      1. Dr. Johnny Fever*

        I second The No Asshole Rule. I also rec Bob’s book, Good Boss, Bad Boss. It gets into some really good examples about how people perform under good bosses and bad bosses, and how bosses consider their effectiveness versus the employees. It’s fascinating and somewhat counter-intuitive, and one that Bob enjoyed researching and writing.

        1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

          Oh! That one has been in my “to read” pile for awhile now, I’ll have to move it up!

    7. new reader*

      Check with your company’s HR department to find out if they have any resources for new supervisors. Find out if HR will provide some training on company policies and processes. My first supervisor role came with many surprises with what I was allowed to do and not do. For example, I could deny an employee’s request for time off if there was a compelling business reason, but I couldn’t ban cell phones from the office. Every employer is different, so it’s important to understand your company’s policies.

      Also, is there a supervisor in your company that you respect? You could ask that person to be a mentor. It can be helpful to have a trusted, confidential peer to use as a sounding board or for advice.

    8. Development professional*

      Be direct. Also, you have to start remembering that it’s your job to convey information – your direct report is not inside your head. So, what do you know or think that they also need to know? What *don’t* they need to know or be thinking about? Deliver positive feedback and negative feedback, but don’t serve a “compliment sandwich” – this is in Alison’s book.

    9. Rex*

      When I first started supervising people, I thought through the things that made my good bosses good and what bad bosses were missing. Some of the key things:
      1. Setting clear and consistent goals and expectations
      2. Making sure I got credit when I did good work
      3. As needed, protecting me from higher ups who weren’t as good
      4. Paying attention to the quality of life stuff
      5. Making sure I wasn’t in the dark as to how I was doing, and if there was something I needed to improve, being really clear about it
      6. Not shying away from tough conversations as needed
      7. Modeling good work habits

      Just off the top of my head. Definitely worth thinking through yourself!

    10. Soupspoon McGee*

      One thing I realized is that if my direct report didn’t do something the way I wanted, I needed to explain my expectations better. I always started by assuming that the issue was with clear communication. It made me more patient, and my reports better able to ask for the information or tools they needed.

    11. Jen*

      Is this someone you are hiring/is very new to the company? Or someone transferring over to you? Entry level or mid level?

      Asking as I have managed all of the above and some guidance is very, very different for an entry level new hire than it is for a mid level transfer.

      One critical theme no matter who you manage: be clear about expectations, check in, and reward them for meeting/exceeding expectations and goals. Fight for them / be a useful point of escalation when things out of their control are impeding their success. Brigitte out what motivates them (praise? Visibility? Flexibility of schedule? Independence?) and work with it. One person may want to hear “nice job” after every good project; one might want a “you are really killing it” lunch or note once a quarter. One may value a work from home day to beat traffic if s/he demonstrates reliability.

  12. Francesca*

    I started a new job at the tail end of last year, and I love it. It’s such a vast improvement on my last job, in terms of the work, the people and the commute (I can walk to work now!) and I didn’t realise what a huge difference it would make to my quality of life. After being hugely overworked and under-appreciated in my previous role, I really feel happy and at home here and have already had an opportunity to register to attend a fantastic conference in the summer as well as a few other work perks.

    I have also been told that they knew immediately after my interview (I was the first person they spoke to in person) that they wanted to hire me, and that they thought I came across extremely well. There were a lot of applicants for the role, so I’m thrilled with that feedback. I credit AAM’s interview prep guide and all the brilliant insights of the wonderful commenters over the year. I’m still early in my career and this site has shaped how I see the work world, which has definitely served me well.

    1. Coffee Ninja*

      Congratulations! It sounds like you found a wonderful fit. Being able to walk to work must be awesome!

    2. GOG11*

      Congratulations on a great year! And thanks for sharing – reading stuff like this reminds me that things can change for the better :)

    3. Doriana Gray*

      I walk to work and it is wonderful (and the main reason I accepted the position in the first place). Congrats on the new job! I hope it continues to be all that you want it to be in the new year.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Good, now you can join in the conspiracy to make the work world a better place. ;) Congrats!

  13. HR Recruiter*

    I’m used to receiving an abundance of applications from people who clearly didn’t read the job description, especially when posting on job boards. But I totally did not expect it from HR professionals! I’m currently hiring an entry level HR position and the resumes I’m getting are awful. I made sure it was very very very clear it was an entry level position. I have people applying with 10-20 years experience who clearly think they are applying for a higher level position. And their resumes are just awful, not formatted, don’t make sense, no order. WTF ppl!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I used to work in a college career center (a really good one, I swear!) and would always be amazed at how bad some of the resume/cover letters we received for career counselor openings would be. People, how can we trust you to provide quality resume/cover letter/job hunting advice to our students if you can’t even submit a proper resume yourself!?

      1. HR Recruiter*

        Yeah that is bad! If you look at resumes all day you should be able to write one or steal one from someone else! I’m part of a group that gives job advice to people with disabilities. One of the guys said to the job applicant, “Did your mom right your resume? This is crap it looks like someone’s mom who doesn’t know how to use a computer wrote it.” He had come in late so he didn’t know the person’s job coach wrote the resume (and she was sitting there when he said it). The job coaches are the absolute worst at writing resumes.

      2. Gandalf the Nude*

        We had some of that last year when we were hiring an HR Director. One dude called multiple times to ask how to get his foot in the door, even after I’d told him to stop, that we’d call him if his candidacy was strong. But he kept calling, saying he just wanted a leg up on the competition and could I please just make sure they took a good look at his application. At that point I went to the hiring managers and told them they should discard his application if they wanted to retain me (they did), and I thankfully never had to find out what he would have been like as a boss!

        1. Kelly L.*

          I’m now picturing you frantically trying to close a door on his literal foot as he keeps trying to push it in! :D

      3. College Career Counselor*

        I feel your pain. I’ve seen some TERRIBLE stuff from experienced career services professionals.

    2. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      Are you sure that they think they are applying for a higher level experience?

      I was in the tech industry for about 20 years. I moved to a rural part of the country (due to my wife’s job) where there aren’t many tech jobs. About 4 years of living there and still working for my former employer in the tech industry (I worked from home) I was laid off.

      I ended up taking a job as an entry-level secretary just so that I could have a job to pay the bills. I am now applying for entry-level/little-experience-needed tech jobs which require only 1 or 2 years of experience at the most so that I can get back into the tech field. I know that they are entry level. I am not expecting the salary, responsibilities, nor the prestige of a high level position. I just want to get back into the tech industry and I am willing to start from the bottom again.

      Are you sure none of your applicants are in the same situation? They may have 20 or so years of experience but may be willing to go to an entry level position for any number of reasons.

      However, all that doesn’t excuse an overall bad resume.

      1. HR Recruiter*

        Yes, I thoroughly vetted each one and talked to some over the phone and doing so I’ve discovered some are clearly just idiots.

      2. NJ Anon*

        This should be discussed in your cover letter. I had CPA’s applying for a part-time bookkeeping position but not one of them submitted a cover letter explaining why.

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          Thanks for the suggestion. I do this to some extent explaining that I want to get back to an IT role. I may need to be more explicit.

    3. Angela*

      We had someone come in to apply for HR manager in sweatpants and a messy bun. We are a very casual environment (jeans/tshirts everyday, entry level can get away with sweats) but I would never have expected someone that was seriously applying for a HR position to show up in sweats.

  14. Wendy Darling*

    In the ongoing tale of This Recruiter Sucks, she finally got it into her head that I wasn’t available last week because I was abroad. I told her I was available this week any time after 11am.

    Next thing I get from her is a calendar invite (an Outlook calendar invite, which of course does not work right with my gmail account) for a phone interview at 10am. She also forwarded me my own resume, for reasons I do not understand but I guess at least I know what I sent them.

    My phone interview is in a couple hours, so I’m practicing how to say “So, what’s up with the 1.5 stars on Glassdoor, cos it’s a bloodbath over there and everyone who is not obviously making an attempt at reputation management has the exact same three gripes?” in a polite way.

    1. Bowserkitty*

      Oh man, she sounds a tad disorganized…good luck with that phone interview, keep us posted.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Yeah, the first time we spoke I told her the dates I’d be unavailable, and she came back and asked me when during that time period she could set up an interview… twice.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        I went with:

        “I’ve been doing some googling about the company and I noticed that the Glassdoor reviews are trending very negative. I’m curious what your take is on that and what the company is doing to address it.” Half of that was cribbed from a very helpful old AAM post: https://www.askamanager.org/2012/01/asking-a-company-about-its-bad-reputation-in-an-interview.html

        He was shockingly candid and actually persuasive enough that I’ll actually go to an in-person interview if one is offered. I’m still deeply suspicious, because the other thing I’ve read is that the pay is almost offensively low, but we’ll see.

    3. KR*

      I remember one part time job I gave my manager my availability and the only times I was not available as Tuesdays and Thursdays…. and the first week on the schedule I was working only Tuesday and Thursday *face palm*

    4. Jotojo*

      That actually leads me to a question.. when an employer has horrible ratings on Glassdoor, how do you approach the subject or ask them about it? I once had a interview at a company, read the comments on Glassdoor right before it and they were horrible. I went to the interview anyway but I think I definitely had my eyes open looking for red flags and I found them. But would I have noticed those things or would they have been an issue if I had not heard the reviews on Glassdoor first?

      1. Biff*

        I think you would. I went to an interview recently and I was looking for some very specific red flags. I didn’t find them, but I found a massive red flag basically hiding in plain sight. If you go into an interview with a mental ‘red flag bingo card’ you should be able to spot at least two or three you’ll need to think about.

        (In my case, I was looking for disconnected management, because that’s what the glassdoor reviews said, what I found was a big brother atmosphere.)

      2. Small town reporter*

        Probably depends on what the reviews said and which red flags you’re looking for. Or maybe it’s just my experience, which was different because I was interviewing with a company via Skype for a job far away from where I was living. The Glassdoor reviews were a huge red flag, they had a good answer (but one that could have totally been untrue, no way of knowing for sure). But some other stuff they said (not mentioned on Glassdoor) became another red flag and I turned them down. Subsequent reviews and turnover in the position made me feel really good about the decision.

    5. Biff*

      I recently talked to a place with a bunch of red-flags on Glassdoor. I was very matter-of-fact about it. “When I researched your company online I noticed a swathe of fairly negative Glassdoor reviews. Can you tell me about them?”

      They were really honest with me — they had a division that was not doing well, which was also undergoing several major, necessary changes that were unfortunately unpopular with the staff. (A very expensive location was being shuttered and moved to an inexpensive locale.) They knew about the issues and they were working on it, but they understood it was a pain point.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Yeah, this guy was VERY honest and candid, which is the ONLY reason I’m still considering this job. If he’d been defensive or dismissive or acted like he didn’t know what I was talking about I’d have withdrawn from consideration, but he was honest and upfront and explained what he did to try to protect his team from the issues people were complaining about and also what the company was doing to improve the situation.

  15. Remote Control*

    How do you work best with a manager that’s not only out of state, but also very hands off?

    My teammates and I are all remote. Our manager lives a few time zones away. We are left to our devices most of the time, including handling responsibilities that technically our manager is responsible for. He is very hands off. Like a question posed earlier this week, if we ask a question, it turns into a long-winded teachable moment. I respond to directness/getting to the point, and I’m thinking about telling my manager this during our annual performance reviews.

    1. Remote Control*

      I should also mention that I’ve been in my role for 4 months and have had no guidance or assistance in learning my role. I can usually figure out most things on my own but it’s still frustrating.

    2. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

      Is there anyone more experienced on your team that you can reach out to?

      In one of my early positions I was a remote employee doing work that was in my field, but nothing I had done before. My boss was too busy to give me the 1:1 attention I needed (8 out of the 12 employees he managed were brand new), but I was able to find a mentor in one of the more senior employees.

      1. Remote Control*

        The person with the most seniority on my team just celebrated their 1-year anniversary. :( I’m the only person on my team that does the type of work that I do. I did have two teammates who did the same type of work but they’ve since left the company.

    3. GOG11*

      My manager for the past year and a half was pretty hands off. Here are a few strategies that helped me, and may or may not helpful to you/YMMV

      – Sitting on non-time-sensitive requests: I tend to have more of a sense of urgency than the culture here is used to and that’s great sometimes, but I discovered that things don’t always need to be figured out, decided on, solved, etc. right away. Sometimes waiting a day or two and going at it again with fresh eyes helped me come up with solutions on my own.

      – For items that I felt like were in manger’s domain but that ended up being left with me, I’d map out my plan (revise/make more concise, rinse, repeat) and then send it to manager. I’d include something like “this is what I plan to do (in appropriate level of detail). Please let me know by [date] if you’d like me to handle any of that differently.” This kept manager in the loop and allowed them to weigh in and course-correct if needed.

      – If I’m checking in about something I know I’ll end up doing again, I may also include a note about my plans to follow this procedure moving forward. Over time, this can cover quite a bit of what you do and then you’ll know what to check in about and what you have authority to tackle on your own (though this only works well if you know your manager will back you up if needed).

      – I try to determine if there is ANYWHERE else I can get need-to-know info. If it’s only from my manager, I sometimes ask if they know where else I can get it. I’d look at it from a problem-solving perspective. “In order to get the teapot contracts over-nighted I need to have [info boss has] by 3 p.m. If we don’t overnight them, we can’t meet the [production deadline of date] and have to pay the rush fee, which isn’t in the budget. How would you like me to handle the [info boss has] in order to get everything in on time?”

      You could also try to have a broader conversation about the level of involvement he wants. In my case, I outlined our budget procedures and got on the same page about which situations to bring my boss in on and which ones I should handle on my own.

      Another thing that worked for me was reaching out to another person who had worked under my boss and asked about their preferences that way. Is there someone you know and have a good rapport with that you could reach out to?

  16. the gold digger*

    Yesterday, the company where I used to work until July 2014 (with horrible CEO NotSergio in NotArgentina) closed the US office. Everyone here (15 people) lost their job. The horrible CEO, who spent tens of thousands of dollars on an office renovation last year, removing all the doors and the cubicle walls because he wanted open space – except for the office that was built for when he was in the US, still has his job. Can’t figure that one out, but man did I dodge a bullet there.

    1. TowerofJoy*

      Good for you! I’ll never understand how they justify it… unless maybe the horrible CEO has another friend up high that believed that was the right move to try?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Some of these people are hired to fire. They fire everyone, because that is what the company wants. Once everyone is gone, they get fired, too.

      Yeah, bullet dodged.

  17. Sarasaurus*

    I’ve been waiting for this all week!

    I’ve been at my (awesome) job for 6 months now, and asked my boss for some general feedback on how things are going at our last one-on-one. She had a lot of really positive things to say and seems to be happy with my performance overall, which was great to hear! She did give me a couple of things to work on, as well, and I’m a little unsure of how to tackle one of them.

    In short, she said she wants me to take more ownership over my projects and establish myself as the project leader, rather than taking direction from others. She gave a couple of examples, including a meeting where I asked two senior staff members how they wanted to approach a project. She said that ideally, she’d like to see me making those kinds of decisions myself. She also mentioned that she gets the sense that I feel uncomfortable saying no to higher-ups or telling them when their ideas don’t make sense, but that I’m the one responsible for the success of the project and she wants to see me own that a little more. This is a huge disconnect from my previous job, where I was expected to just do what was instructed and was definitely more of an implementer than a planner. I think part of the problem is that I’m still stuck in that “here to serve” mindset. The other issue is that I don’t feel like I have enough knowledge of the industry or our clients yet to make educated decisions – especially when a lot of the staff has been in the industry for 20+ years and this is only my second job out of college.

    I guess I understand what the goal is, but I’m not sure how exactly to get there. How did you all reach a point in your careers where you felt comfortable calling the shots more? Any advice would be appreciated!

    1. Dang*

      I seriously could have written this! That was the feedback I received at my 6 month review also. Now that it’s been a few more months, I feel like I’ve gotten a much better grasp on my job and as a result have more confidence in making decisions.

      I think a lot of it comes with time and as you get more acclimated, you’ll build more confidence. But in the meantime I tried to figure out a scenario that came up somewhat regularly and a decision I could make/direction I could take independently (or a way to respond to someone, or whatever), kind of outline it for my boss and confirm that it was the correct approach- not on a regular basis, but every so often. Just to confirm that it was the correct direction and build the confidence. I’m a really passive person who struggles with initiative, so even breaking off a small piece of what I do and trying to figure out a way to own it has been pretty helpful.

      1. Sarasaurus*

        This is really reassuring, thank you! I like the idea of coming up with a decision on my own and then running it by my boss. It seems like a good stepping stone to becoming more autonomous.

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Can you bounce ideas off your boss for a while until you get more confident?. I’d frame it as I’m new to this so for a little while I want to run things by you first to make sure I don’t sound crazy. Or something like that.

    3. Mark in Cali*

      I’m in a similar position and I think it’s just as important to tell your boss how you feel. Thank them for the trust and responsibility, but remind them that you know yourself and that you will need some coaching to get there. At the very least, say thanks for the responsibility and you’ll try your best, but help her understand that a change like this doesn’t come in one quarter or even one year. You can also remind her that there may be a very real fear of making a decision on your own but then getting backlash for doing so even though you were told to do so. I know that happens in some places.

      For me, I think requesting more frequent 1:1’s is the solution because I bring to my manager right away the final decisions I’m about to make. It’s not totally autonomous because I get feedback 50% of the time what to do differently, but this can be agreed on as part of the process to become autonomous.

      1. Sarasaurus*

        Thanks for the advice! I definitely like the idea of more frequent 1:1s. She has a very open-door philosophy, but is so busy that it can be hard to catch her in the moment.

        1. Mark in Cali*

          Yeah same here. My 1:1s often get cancelled. I’m not that busy and I wish my boss would delegate some of her work to me so she had more time for our 1:1s. I don’t get it sometimes . . . Often I think going back to barista life may be nice . . .

    4. ThatGirl*

      Try to shift your mindset away from asking others how they want to approach a project, and instead think of ways **you** would approach it. You can still ask for feedback or clear it with more senior team members, but it’s taking leadership instead of asking for direction – and with time you will get more comfortable with making suggestions and taking the lead.

      Also, if something doesn’t make sense to you, start pushing back or asking more questions – even if it’s a little later, like, something occurs to you after a conversation, that’s ok. Just go back and say “I was thinking about this teapot design, and here’s something I have a concern about…”

      It’s a process, but starting to trust your own judgment and come up with your own ideas will go a long way.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Yes, this. Try to imagine yourself as a consultant on these projects, brought in for your expert advice. This is how I slowly turned myself from a “here to serve” mindset to a leadership mindset.

    5. KR*

      I’ve been trying to work on this in the past couple of months! Before, people would make requests of me and I would take them at their word and try to make it work (not always the way it is done in IT where people make unreasonable requests all the time that they don’t think through). Now, though, I am trying to be more confident in myself. A lot of it came from knowing that my supervisor would back me up so I would sometimes run what I wanted to say by him or ask him what he thought of my actions in a particular case so that I knew for future reference if what I was saying was okay.

    6. TCO*

      Sometimes I can be prone to not taking credit for my own ideas, which can make it appear that I’m making fewer decisions than I am. I often do need to get input/permission before moving forward, so I’m making an increased effort to bring ideas to those meetings so that my questions are more about getting permission to implement my solution, rather than asking for solutions. I’m trying to do a better job of saying things like, “I think… and Jane agrees” instead of, “Jane and I think…” to make it clear that I’m developing solutions even if I need input before moving forward.

    7. BRR*

      I’m in a similar position myself. I think of it as an opportunity to finally do and say all of my thoughts that I couldn’t do at my last job because I was the most junior team member. I’m no longer an implementer but the so called “expert” on what I do for my department.

    8. Glasskey*

      Thank you for asking this as I am on the flip side of that issue, managing an employee that is still fairly new whom I’d like to see take more ownership of his work. Your question helps me think about how I might communicate that to him in a way that is helpful and clear. What caught my eye (struck a nerve?) in your case was your description of meeting with senior staff to ask them how they wanted to approach a project. That seems like a pretty unstructured, open-ended question. So I have to ask: Did you do some prep work before this meeting, ask some questions around the office, draft up some possible scenarios, target some areas for discussion in order to demonstrate that, even though you are new, you have mastered a certain level of fluency about the organization, the project, and your role? In other words, did you do something to contribute to the discussion?

      1. Sarasaurus*

        Thank you for responding! Seeing this from the other side is really helpful. I should clarify: I was really asking about one small detail, rather than the project as a whole. I presented a few options and asked for their opinion, rather than saying “I think we should go with option A over option B, because reasons XYZ.” I realize now that’s what I should be aiming for. I think I’m having a hard time, because I don’t always feel like I know what the best option is.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Study your reasons. If you chose A what would be your reason? Now look at B, what would be your reason?

          Of the two reasons which one is the strongest, the most persuasive? Sometimes a reason stands out above all others. If it is abundantly clear to you, it will either be clear to others or you will very easily explain why this is the route to go.

          Okay, let’s say that A and B are close, they are both pretty strong. Look for a secondary reason that might tip the scales. For example, you are choosing between A and B materials, they are both about the same on every point, except there is more of B available to buy than there is A. That might be your tipping point to chose B.

          Now, pretend the choice is reeeally tough you are just not sure, no matter how many angles you look at the situation. Then pick the choice that is the easiest to correct if it is wrong. This could look like, you chose material B but you order a small batch so you can run some samples before ordering a couple truck loads of it.

          It might be helpful, too, to realize that even the long term professionals are just guessing. When I go to the doctor and get a med, he is guessing that it will work for me. Yes, he has a lot of background and he has broad basis for his opinion, but in the end he is still guessing. One doctor gave a family member penicillin. She went into seizure. He guessed the med would help her based on what he knew about her. He did not know it would trigger a seizure for her. Likewise, yourself, you are doing your best and you will have some learning experiences along the way. I found that once I became very determined to fix my own mistakes that really helped me to become better at making decisions. It’s a subtle thing, but it was one of the most helpful things I found.

    9. Angela*

      I really struggled with telling anyone senior to me that they were “wrong” for a while. It helps to be sure you know exactly what you want to say and all the points you need to cover figured out in advance. For me, this means I address in email. This works well for me because I have a remote position and email is my normal means of communication, but if you need to have the conversation in person, I’d probably still write everything down and just go over it in my head. Helps me to keep from just agreeing when I know that I need to be sure that someone is understanding the issues that I’m seeing.

      What I do, is I run with a plan, get all my bases covered, and then send to everyone that needs the info and ask for feedback at that point. Generally with wording that says, “Here is an outline of how the project is anticipated to run. If anyone has any concerns, comments, or feedback please let me know. Otherwise, we will implement on (date).”

      I totally get what a challenge it is to make the mental switch from doing what your told to running with your own plan. My former supervisor was very much a micro-manager, so the only good plan was her plan. My current supervisor has really allowed me to grow into a much more independent employee. With time, you’ll get there too :)

    10. misspiggy*

      I agree with what people are saying here, but it is essential to ask people, especially senior people, for input. The difference might be in how you communicate what you do with their input. So feeding back decisions after consultation might be the key: ‘I’m hearing that you want this and you want this. There’s also x factor to consider, so overall I’m proposing that we take such and such approach’. Then you look all leader-y, but you’ve checked that key people are happy and therefore won’t be likely throw a spanner in the works further down the road.

  18. Winter is Coming*

    Has anyone ever used a PEO for benefits administration? I have a broker who is telling me he could align us with a PEO and save money on health insurance & worker’s compensation. I just don’t know enough about them to feel like I’m making an informed decision.

    2. MaryMary*

      I am a broker and consultant. A PEO is a Professional Employer Organization. The PEO takes over payroll, benefits, and workers comp by actually becoming the employer of record for your company’s employees.

      First of all, make your broker give you more information. She should give you more details than “hey, it’s cheaper!” The PEO should at least do a sales presentation for you.

      Assuming the PEO sales pitch covers the pros, here are the cons (in my opinion). You give up a lot of autonomy in a PEO. Your claims experience is usually combined with the other groups in the PEO. So if your employees are healthy, but theirs are not, your still pay for their claims. However, it can work in your favor if your employees are the ones with high claims.

      You will be limited to the carriers and plan designs offered by the PEO. It will be difficult, if not impossible, to get exceptions made or have any flexibility on administration. Depending on the PEO, it can be a challenege to get information on some of the plan details, or to escalate if your employees are having a claim issue. It can also be very difficult to leave a PEO because your claims experience is pooled, making it difficult to quote other options.

      It may make sense for your organization, but I would defnitely push back for more information from the broker and PEO.

    3. Lillian McGee*

      My org uses a PEO! They make my job a jillion times easier and I love them. The only real downside for us is that the service fees are huge, especially considering we are a small non-profit. We end up paying them as much as another employee’s salary. But, the ‘savings’ come from my ability to focus more on other aspects of my job and of course the savings in med insurance, etc. for us and our staff.

    4. Clever Name*

      My company just started using one. I guess it’s okay, from the employee side. We are a small and fairly unique company, so some of the PEO’s canned language on company documents actually goes against our culture and how we do things. It’s still new, so I’m trying to bring up this stuff as I come across it, and HR has been pretty good about getting stuff like the employee manual amended so we aren’t beholden to something we don’t want to do.

  19. LizB*

    Has anyone else ever had a lack of confidence in your manager? How have you dealt with it?

    My manager is brand new to managing, and our program is also brand new, so I know he’s got a lot on his plate right now. I’m sure he’s doing his best, and I don’t think he’s stupid or incapable of doing this work — I think he’ll eventually be a good manager for this program. But that doesn’t totally help me right now, when I feel like going to him with questions is just going to make my life more difficult.

    Problems I’m seeing: he’s not very clear in his communication; sometimes he’ll completely contradict himself within the same sentence, and when we ask for clarification we get yet a third answer. Often when I send him an email or IM message, it’s like he’s reading something totally different than what I’m writing, and his response will make no sense based on the details I gave. (I’m working on writing my emails more clearly, and providing context that is obvious to me but that he may not remember — I know this one is partially on me.) A lot of the suggestions he makes about how our program should look moving forward seem to conflict with the program goals or be just plain unworkable, and I feel kind of awkward asking so many questions and disagreeing with him so much. There are a lot of questions I still have about how we should be doing things, but I feel like if I ask him, he’s going to totally misunderstand the question and either suggest something that doesn’t make any sense, or pass it on to the higher-ups and completely miss-state the question so the answer we get back doesn’t match. I absolutely don’t want to go to the higher-ups myself, because that’s his job, but sometimes I feel like that’s the only way I’m going to get any clarity.

    Any suggestions? Do I just keep my head down and tough it out until he finds his feet, or is there something I can do differently to make this easier?

    1. Former Student Employee*

      I experienced this as a student employee in college. New managers came in and not only was I having issues, but the rest of the student staff as well. Because my position worked more closely with the managers, I and the two others in similar positions called a meeting with the new managers and explained some of the trouble spots. It wasn’t done particularly well and I learned a lot from it — should have used more specifics, should have had two separate meetings with the two managers — but it looks like you’ve got specifics already. Although it was executed poorly, I was under the impression the managers generally appreciated the information. If you’re working directly under this person, I suggest requesting a meeting to check in. If there are other people working directly under him, ask if they want to be included — either in person or relaying messages for them. Just be careful not to “gang up” on him (so, use language carefully, don’t include too many people in the meeting, maybe choose a location that is more “his territory” than “yours.”).

    2. Development professional*

      When you have to ask about something (and I’m assuming from what you wrote about this situation that you’re only going to him with stuff when absolutely necessary) is it possible to suggest the answer in your question? Instead of asking “which teapots do you want us to make each week this month?” I would say “I’m planning to focus on chocolate teapots this week, strawberry next week, and vanilla for the last two weeks of the month. That means we’ll delay the mint teapots until February when mint is in season and we don’t have to switch flavors from day to day. When we finish the mint, do you want us to go back to chocolate or should we move on to something different?” If you’re disagreeing with him this frequently, then you must have some idea of what you think the answers should be much of the time. Try setting him up with your answers and see if you get a better result.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I see more than one problem.
      You both are learning the job.
      You are both learning to communicate with each other.

      Until you become more familiar with each other, I would try to do more communication in person if possible. It won’t take long and you both will understand each other a whole lot better.

      The other thing I would do is ask a wrap up question if I am unclear on what he just said. Let’s say I am asking if I should do X or Y and he gives me an answer that roams around and meanders all over the place. When he winds down I would say, “So I think you are saying you want me to do X not Y, right?”

      Be kindly/gently consistent about this, because you are showing him what you need from him. Make sure your tone of voice and body language are not off-putting. You are just asking for clarification so you can do a good job, that is all you are asking.

      It sounds like he is dealing with a little bit of panic/worry. Once he gets settled in a bit more, this problem should straighten out. For the time being, if you can think of ways to help him that would also help you. For example, I have had new bosses that I have told, “Oh, I will have the xyz report for you on Thursday.” I would not say that to an established boss, because he would know every Thursday I would have the xyz report. A new boss, however, seemed to find such statements helpful. I only made these almost obvious statements for a few weeks, until they got used to the drone of my voice talking about xyz’s on Thursday. That is an example, you will probably find other ways to pass along little prompts.

  20. Not Karen*

    I’ve been covering some projects for a coworker on maternity leave when she decided not to come back to work. Would it be out of line to ask if there are plans to hire a replacement?

    1. Christian Troy*

      I don’t think so. I remember asking when my manager’s position was going to filled after she resigned because it impacted my workload. Unfortunately in my case, they claimed they were interviewing people but never filled the role.

    3. Audiophile*

      You can absolutely ask if they have plans to hire a replacement. If this is a recent announcement, be prepared that they may not have an answer for you.

    4. Natalie*

      Totally not out of line. I got my current position because I covered a vacancy for a couple of months, and when they were finally ready to hire I threw my hat in the ring. It’s totally normal.

    6. Rebecca*

      Yes, you need to ask now.

      I’m the victim of “oh, we need you to cover for Jane while she goes on maternity leave for 6 weeks” and then Jane takes another job in the company, her stuff becomes my stuff, on top of my regular workload, and now 22 months later I’m still struggling. Turns out it’s cheaper to torture me than to hire another full time person with health insurance and vacation benefits. :(

    7. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I think you can be pretty direct about this: “Given Lupita’s decision to resign, what are your plans for managing her projects? I’ve really enjoyed working on XYZ, and I’d love opportunity to incorporate that into my role permanently, so I’d love to discuss what else we could move around to make that happen.” Or, if you want to offload the projects, “Given Lupita’s decision to resign, what are your plans for managing her projects? I’ve been glad to help with XYZ while she was on leave, but I’d really like to get back to focusing on ABC. Can we talk about a plan or a timeline for shifting XYZ back off my plate?”

    8. KR*

      We have a person on our team who hasn’t been coming to work for almost a month so I’ve been doing her duties on top of my own. I don’t mind terribly, but there are certain things that aren’t getting done and we’re all kind of waiting for something to be done about it. Unfortunately the person in charge of the whole operation is on medical leave off and on until March.

  21. Golden Yeti*

    Guys, after 5 years of searching, I got my first job offer Wednesday…and I had to turn it down. *bangs head against wall*

    It was with a startup, and the whole process was done hurriedly (24 hours), and it was contract, and there were several reasons I couldn’t take it. But I hated the irony. When I emailed the guy my rejection, he didn’t even write me back; I hope he wasn’t too upset.

    I just wish the whole job search thing was easier. I hate that I’m starting yet another year in the same place (and I’m sure I’m not alone).

    1. Christian Troy*

      I have been job searching for a year and a half and it really sucks. There is no way around it. I had to turn down a position last year because the pay was just too low to move for and it physically pained me even though I knew it was the right choice.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Same thing happened to me before I got Current Job. I wanted the position and I liked the managers, but it was untenable from a financial standpoint. After doing the math, I realized I’d have like $14 left after paying all my bills each month. I could see myself getting trapped forever or having to leave as soon as possible.

    2. Dang*

      I’m so sorry. I hate it when things work out that way- I had a long job search too, and I turned down my first offer for various reasons and hated having to do that. But it’s great you’ve gotten an offer and I’m sure there are more to come.

    3. Anna*

      I’m sorry. That’s tough. The bright side is you didn’t accept an offer you weren’t completely sure about simply to get out of where you are.

    4. moss*

      It would have sucked. Startup culture can be tough and it sounds like they are displaying symptoms of being the cr@ppy kind of startup: disorganization, permanent temporariness, lack of adherence to business culture (like acknowledging your email). Consider it a bullet dodged and you did the right thing.

      1. Golden Yeti*

        They did end up writing me back a nice reply (I just got it now), but you are still right. The thought that you could go from viewing someone’s resume to interviewing them and offering them a job all in a single meeting 24 hours later is a little dizzying to think about.

    5. Mirilla*

      I feel your pain. I had to turn down a second interview because the place was really disorganized (among other issues) and I really want a new job so it was frustrating.

  22. hermit crab*

    On the flip side of yesterday’s post about a culture of mentorship, my company is trying to resurrect a defunct mentor system (an official program where people are paired up). So, I now have a mentee! Has anyone participated in a successful mentorship program at work? What recommendations do you have for a new mentor?

    p.s. Spellcheck wants me to change “mentee” to “tenement”!

    3. NotherName*

      Shouldn’t the person being guided by the mentor be called a “Telemachus”? (Just wanted to show off my knowledge of ancient Greek literature…)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I still wanna go with manatee. I think that correlation will be stuck in my head for a bit.

    4. katamia*

      You don’t say what industry you’re in or what you’d be mentoring them for (something specific like accounting? something vague like leadership?), so some of my advice might not apply, but here are some things you might want to keep in mind:

      Listen to what your mentee wants and seems to respond to. Explicitly ask them what they want to work on and if they have ideas on how they should go about it or things that have worked well for them in the past. Some people like to learn on their own and may not want much beyond your availability to answer specific questions as they come up, while other people need more guidance early on and might want something more formal and structured. Give your mentee a chance to say what they like and dislike, and whenever possible, try to do things in a way that works for them.

      Not everyone is going to know all that about themselves, though. If you get someone who’s less navel-gazey than, say, I am (you want my learning styles? I can describe them all in intense detail, for all the good that does, lol), they might not be able to articulate how they learn best. Therefore, it’s probably a good idea to do some different things with them up front (talking to them, mayb watching them work, maybe sample problems, etc.) to get a feel for how they think.

      Also, try to avoid being judgmental if your mentee turns out to learn very differently from you, especially if your way is something that’s seen as “better” by some. I’ve been in environments where most people were very independent, and there was a little bit of eyerolling when someone who was new turned out to work better with more guidance up front than many others did. The less you judge, the easier it is to keep that judgment from negatively affecting your relationship with your mentee.

    5. aNoN*

      Oh man that is exciting! congrats!!

      my company has attempted to resurrect it’s dead finance/accounting mentor program. I joined it and got paired up with a director who I feel awkward around. He is very quiet and I dont feel like I can be open around him. I want someone to help me understand what possibilities there are in the company and if my attitude/perspective is on the right track to help me achieve my goals. My ideal mentor gives me feedback outside of the corporate jargon to pick from the annual review “how to” guide book. Talk with your mentee about what he/she wants out of their career (if they know). Help the person assess their strengths and weaknesses and more importantly, be open about your own experiences. My mentors in the past were very open about their career including their failures and I found that to be inspiring.

    6. it happens*

      Congratulations on becoming a mentor!
      A few small tips – before your first meeting think about what YOU want from this relationship. There are a lot of things you can get from it – all the way from pay-it-forward-feel-goods, to the inside scoop on what’s going on in another part of the company. Once you know what you want it will be easier to manage your own expectations over time. Ask your mentee to go through this exercise before your first meeting as well. When you meet you’ll each be able to tell the other why you’re doing this and be able to decide if you’ll be able to help each other or not, and if not, adjust expectations (oh, you mean you aren’t mentoring me to promote me to manager in your department?) or get a reassignment. A clear definition of the relationship up-front makes the whole thing much better (kinda like work in general.)

      Let the mentee run the relationship – this person is coming to you for help, you are not the manager of their mentorship project, you are the resource that they need to manage.

      Set meetings up in advance on a regular schedule (once a month has worked for me.) Ask the mentee to send a few items for discussion a few days before the meeting so you are prepared to have an intelligent conversation.

      Depending on the mutual goals, you might want to discuss business articles from management or industry publications, or sit down with people in the company working on specific projects that could help both of you.

      Be willing to answer any kind of question – it’s amazing how frequently people have unstated assumptions that they are afraid to test for fear of looking stupid. (like, how do we really make money here? or how do people get promoted, etc.) And be willing to say that you don’t know the answer to a question if you don’t.

      Also, take some comfort in knowing that the company is experimenting (‘trying to resurrect a defunct’) and whoever is running it would likely appreciate your (and your mentee’s) feedback as you try to find your way through this. Now go be a great mentor!

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Never underestimate the power of sharing stories. That means have her tell stories, also.

      If you find yourself at a loss, ask her what she is working on currently. “What did you do today?” That can be a very powerful question.

    8. JJtheDoc*

      The biggest take-away from managing a corporate mentor program: Remember that a mentor is a resource and a guide, and not the google. Brainstorm. Mind Map. Network. Don’t answer the question!! In fact, peel the onion and ask the deeper, harder questions that help your mentee understand both the process and the answer. Too many mentors ‘flunked out’ because they set themselves up to be the all-knowing answerer, and the mentees didn’t learn.

  23. Devil's Avocado*

    Has anyone ever had a coworker on their team with the same title and same first name? I’m starting a new role where this will be the case. How did you avoid confusion? I think we’re probably going with calling each of us by our first name, last initial. But I still worry it will be confusing for people calling in or emailing us to remember who’s who.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      I was on a team with two other people with the same first name and two of us had easily confused last initials (they sound really the same when you say them, say D and T), so we ended up numbered in order of hiring. Wendy 1, Wendy 2, and Wendy 3. Eventually we just ended up going by number (“Oh I think 3 is handling that.”)

      Outside our team we were referred to as Firstname Lastname, so I was Wendy Darling and 3 was Wendy Testaburger.

      1. Devil's Avocado*

        I don’t love the numbered option because it feels to me like a ranking… but maybe I’m overthinking it.

        Our last initials don’t sound the same, so that is probably the option we’ll take. I’ve just never had this happen before! :)

    2. cuppa*

      There’s three of us on my current team (and I have a common, but not super-common first name). There is some confusion sometimes, but you just laugh it off and say, “oh, sorry, you want Cuppa Smith, and I’m Cuppa Simpson.” (yes, two of us even have the same last initial!) Overally, it’s just not a huge deal.
      The best is when people ask you about things gossip wise, and it turns out it’s about another Cuppa.

    3. Red Wheel*

      I deal with a somewhat similar situation. When the other Red Wheel Is involved in a matter I always refer to myself as “Red Wheel S.” ( for Smith) and refer to the other guy as Red Wheel J”(for Jones). It has encouraged others to do the same.

    4. Daisy Steiner*

      My advice would be to proactively lead this one. Get people calling you “Devil’s S” and “Devil’s R”, before they can default to something like “New Devil’s” and “Old Devil’s”, or even worse, “Young Devil’s” and “Old Devil’s”.

      I’ve been in a friend group with another “Daisy” who, even before I joined the group, was often playfully referred to as “Young Daisy” – and did happen to be younger than me. Even though there was no correlating “Old Daisy” for me, I still didn’t care for the implication!

      1. Devil's Avocado*

        Luckily (?) we appear to be roughly the same age, height, hair colour, etc… so there’s no physical or age characteristics to differentiate us, which help me avoid those awkward options.

        1. Aunt Vixen*

          We have two people with the same name on my team, and two boss-types with the same name in the offices that surround us, and until recently there was also another pair of same-names on my team (along with a boss-type who also shares that name and yet another whose name is spelled the same but pronounced differently, for a total of four) and another pair of same-names among the boss-types. Put another way:

          Two A’s on our team
          Two B’s among the bosses
          Until recently, two C’s on our team (and another C and a C’ among the bosses, who are still here)
          Until relatively recently, two D’s among the bosses

          It works out with a combination of nicknames, full names, and last names. The two A’s we just call by both first and last name more or less all the time. The two B’s generally use different forms of their name – Dave and David, for example. (They are not both named David.) The two C’s on our team (I am one of them) used our last names or both first and last, depending on the circumstances; with the boss types, we generally use first and last if it’s not clear whom we’re talking about from the context. The two D’s used different nicknames (Rick and Rich, e.g., though they were not both named Richard) and often just used their last names.

    5. hermit crab*

      I worked on a team once with two name pairs! Like, Sarah A., Sarah B., John C., John D., and me. The two women pronounced their first names differently (it wasn’t actually Sarah) so for them, it was at least easy to specify who you meant when you talked out loud. But we definitely called the men John and Other John for a while. There was definitely some email confusion (sometimes people would even email me instead of one of the Sarahs), but I don’t think it ever interfered with anyone’s work.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        My SO had like three people with his same name at his company, so his display name on email and IM was his name + team — ‘Peter Darling (NEVERLAND)’ to distinguish him from ‘Peter Darling (POOH CORNER)’.

    6. Sascha*

      I’ve not been in that situation, but even if you put photos of yourselves in your email signature, people will still probably confuse you. :) I got called by my coworkers’ names all the time, even with different names and different titles, because there are about 5 of us who are 30s-something women with dark hair, so we all just kind of blend together in people’s minds.

      That being said, I think doing something like Sascha S. and Sascha V. is fine, or you could just use your last names with each other. My husband has the same first name as his director so they just go by their last names.

      1. Devil's Avocado*

        I like the last name option, but I’m not sure if it would come across as odd in a professional context. (I was in the army reserves for a few years, so I respond quite readily to my last name. My friends from that period of my life actually still call me by my last name.)

        1. K*

          We have 4 Jason’s in my office. Two of them are primarily referred to by their last name only (they have both been with the company a long time), the other two are usually referred to by their full names.

    7. MaryMary*

      I used to work with a plethora of Jennifers. We started calling them by their last names. There were so many we couldn’t use Jennifer Last Initial, and our teams grouped and regrouped a lot by project, so numbers and nicknames didn’t work.

      1. Jennifer*

        Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh.
        Happily, I haven’t worked with any other Jennifers in a long time (we have one Jenny). Though at one point we had three Chrisses at a job so we had Christopher, Chris, and C.

    8. KTM*

      I’m on a team of 5 and two people have the same name, which is also the same name as my SO (who does not work at the same company) but it leads to some occasional funny miscommunication! We use last names for the two on my team and I tend to say ‘my SO’ when referring to my SO to avoid confusion. I also share a first name with someone else in our small office (but not on the same team) and we went by KTM #1 and KTM #2 in order of who was hired first as kind of a running joke at first but then just stuck.

      Just be prepared to get a lot of emails meant for the other person and vice versa.

      1. Devil's Avocado*

        I actually just got an email yesterday (I haven’t started yet) from my soon to be manager. She had obviously meant to copy the other Devil but her address book autofilled my name instead! That’s when I began wondering whether this would be a problem.

    9. Gene*

      Every job I’ve had has had at least one other Gene around, luckily none have had the same job. We’ve used the Gene A. and Gene B. method most places. Though one was Boy Gene and Girl Jean.

      The biggest problem for one where we both got regular calls from the outside was “Which Gene?” when the caller would say something like “Gene!” The receptionist would have to play 20 questions to figure out which of us to page.

    10. F.*

      At Old Job, we once had FIVE Michaels and THREE Brians at the same time! Fortunately, some of the Michaels went by Mike, but we still had to use last names to differentiate. The last name just became part of their name, all run together when it was spoken, like Michaelsmith, Mikejones, Mikebrown, etc. For some reason, the Brians just went by their last names.

      Reminds me of when I was a child and I had a difficult to spell last name. For quite a while I was under the impression my name was Plufferton-P-L-U-F-F-E-R-T-O-N, all one word! (not real last name)

      1. Development professional*

        OMG me too!!!! it’s just second nature to begin spelling my last name immediately, in the same breath.

      2. Afiendishthingy*

        My full first name is long and very, very unusual, and I go by a diminutive of it- i.e Fiendy, short for Fiendishthingy. When I was little I thought everyone’s name was actually nickname for a long name ending with the same last two syllables as mine- Ashleythingy, Betsythingy, Mamathingy…

    11. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      I was in this same position and I tried the Larry (not initial for the last-name) and LarryD thing but it didn’t stick/work for some reason. I am glad it worked for other people though.

      I would suggest that you pick a nick-name (such as your middle name) and just use that exclusively. You can even ask to have your email set up using your nick-name and sign your emails that way and introduce yourself that way, answer your phone that way, sign your name that way, etc. You should only use your real name for signing official documents.

      1. Devil's Avocado*

        Hilariously, my middle name is the same as my new manager’s first name. (Also I love my first name and it’s not nickname-able. )

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          Then just try and pick another name. At a previous job, the COO thought my name was Darryl. It stuck and everyone at work called me Darryl. I would have used that name if I had thought of it at the time because I was used to answering it. Has there been a name that you have always liked? Choose it.

    12. Rusty Shackelford*

      I was the only Rusty for a long time, but we recently hired another Rusty. We go by Rusty S and Rusty A. It’s not perfect but it works.

    13. CheeryO*

      Yes! We have two guys with the same first name in our department of 13 people, and to make it even more confusing, one of them has the same last name another guy in our department (no relation). They typically get the first-letter-of-the-last-name treatment, but one of them happens to have the same full name as a famous actor, so a lot of people think it’s amusing to call him by his full name.

    14. Ineloquent*

      We’ve got two guys with the exact same name (first and last), except one is spelled Luis and one is Louis. They are in the same department and do similar work. We just warn the crap out of everyone that they need to be sure to send stuff to the right guy, and they are good about sending stuff meant for the other to the right person.

    15. nerfmobile*

      My manager has the same first name (let’s say it’s Kelly) as the VP of our group – there’s one layer of management in between them, but it’s still close enough that there is confusion at times. The name isn’t easily nicknamable, so usually if it’s needed people use lastname initials to distinguish them – Kelly R vs Kelly J, for instance. Although within the people reporting to my manager, we sometimes call her “our Kelly”.

    16. Wakeen's Teapots, Ltd.*

      Between Laurens and Jennifers, it sometimes seems odd to *not* have two people with the same first name and job title at Wakeen’s.

      1. Wakeen's Teapots, Ltd.*

        Oh, and we have to do full name, “Lauren Smith”, “Lauren Jones”, because last initial wouldn’t work. It’s so common, we don’t think about it. It’s like “Mary Sue”, or “Bobby Jo”.

        1. Wakeen's Teapots, Ltd.*

          We have not one Kate. Not a single one.

          I can’t remember ever having a Kate….wait, had a Kate about 10 years ago.

          Isn’t that something.

    17. Lee Ann*

      We’ve got a Michael and a Mike who’s username is michael, so it’s natural to refer to him by username and then correct it to Mike because Michael is the other guy – and then another Mike.

      Still not as bad as my team at Apple with three Steves in the immediate group, not to mention *the* Steve at the top :)

    18. Aardvark*

      Yep–and we looked roughly the same from the back, too! We also worked on a team with another name pair and a bunch of other similar name combos, so much so we did a skit about it at a team-building thing. We did the last initial thing and that worked out pretty well. I still use my last initial on internal emails even though we’re on different teams now. We still get each other’s emails sometimes, but use those as an excuse to catch up and say hi.

    19. Clever Name*

      For some reason we tend to hire people with the same names. We have two sets of people with the same first name, and a set of four with the same first name. (We have less than 100 people in the entire company) We tend to do Firstname L. or Firstname Lastname, or Lastname, or in one case “ICindi” because we had a “Cindy” with a Y.

    20. Tammy*

      I used to work on a team with *six* pairs of identical first names (out of about 30 people)! I used to tease our recruiter that she clearly needed to start putting “must be willing to change first name” as a contingency in offer letters. :-)

      Seriously, though, in many cases it became obvious from the context which “Matt” you wanted because of job roles within the team, but when it wasn’t obvious we’d usually use first and last name. There was still a lot of “Oh, you’re working on the chocolate teapot project, so you want Anna Smith and not Anna Jones”, but it was actually not a huge ordeal.

  24. SMT*

    I had a Career Development meeting with HR this week, and I actually feel pretty positive about it. After explaining that I really wanted out of the hospitality division for work-life balance (I was scheduled to open at 6am on Jan. 30, and to close until 230am on NYE – my body couldn’t handle that in college.), she said she’d share my resume with the person hiring for personnel records, and check on some other HR entry level positions I had applied for and am apparently still being considered for, according to the system.

    I’m also at least getting moved from the area with special events almost constantly to an area with a lot less. So in the meantime, I might be able to get an occasional weekend off :)

  25. NarrowDoorways*

    Well yesterday was terrifying.

    My entire department was laid off–except for me. I’m taking on their duties (go figure) and got a slight promotion.

    Feels weird though. When it was presented in a staff meeting, I felt terrible. Like, instead of getting a promotion because I rock, there’s this aura of getting it just to fire some dead weight. Almost like I didn’t deserve it.

    I am happy with the promotion and confident in my abilities, but I keep getting flashed of terror. Deep breaths are necessary.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Oh wow. I can totally see why you feel that way – it’s kind of like survivor’s guilt. But that doesn’t mean you don’t deserve your promotion – if you didn’t you would have been laid off with everyone else.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      That’s understandable…they thought you were the one worth keeping out of everyone, and seem to have confidence that you can handle a huge increase in responsibility…but it sounds like they are also pretty reckless and callous when it comes to layoffs. If my company had to do that, they would explain why that department no longer needed its previous staffing level, try to transition people in that department to other roles, and for those who couldn’t find something internally, they’d try to help them find something externally.

  26. Not Karen*

    When you have a team lunch organized by your manager (as opposed to a casual get-together with your coworkers), does that count as work time or not? Our time is billable and tracked so it makes a difference.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I’d definitely clarify with your manager, but my feeling is anything that’s mandatory is work time.

      1. Not Karen*

        I don’t know if it’s mandatory or just expected. I’m just afraid to come off as lazy if I ask. At LastJob we weren’t allowed to count any work events – even ones during the work day – as work time.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          There is a kind of a delicate balance there. If you attend absolutely no “optional” work events, you do come off as not invested in the organization. At the same time, if you’re expected to attend all “optional” work events, they’re actually mandatory and not optional at all.

          I would pick my battles. If it’s something I didn’t really want to go to, I’d say “Is this a work lunch or a get-together?” If your manager says “It’s not a work lunch, but I’d like you to go,” then I would go and then skip out on some other “optional” thing.

    6. Afiendishthingy*

      Super dependent on your job. At mine it’d be fraud but we are funded by Medicaid and have really strict restrictions on what is billable.

  27. Kai*

    So I have a coworker is calls off sick really frequently. Usually once a week, if not more (this week was nuts for us, we knew it would be nuts, and she’s been out three of five days). She does have health issues, which I completely sympathize with and don’t blame her for at all, but it’s getting increasingly frustrating. It’s gotten to the point where you can’t really depend on her, especially during busy times–and this is a front-desk role where we really need to have her around consistently.

    I think our boss is finally going to sit down with her and talk about where to go from here. I don’t want to come across as unfeeling about her circumstances, but it’s a crappy situation all around.

    1. Not Karen*

      That’s unfortunate, but really if you have health issues you shouldn’t be in a role where you’re required be present at certain times. There are jobs – such as mine! – with flexibility so it’s not like she has no hope of a job. (If I’m running low on spoons and I get to work at 9:30 instead of 9, no one even notices! The computer code can wait.)

      1. Kai*

        That’s what I’ve had rolling around in my head, too. It’s an hourly job with set hours and certain times of year where it’s predictably swamped, so unless something drastically changes it’s looking like just not the right role for her.

    2. Professionally Anon*

      I feel your pain. Our front office person tends to call off when we all know it’s going to be insane and the rest of us have to pick up her slack on top of getting our own work done. Your manager really needs to get to the bottom of the situation and, as Not Karen stated, figure out if it’s the right role for her.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I’m not sure what the legal issues are here, if any, but my feeling is if she regularly can’t commit to full-time work, maybe she shouldn’t be a full-time employee, which means your boss should hire someone part-time to fill in the (regular) gaps… or replace her with a full-time employee who can physically commit to the work.

    4. Trill*

      I’ve been in this situation and it sucks! In my situation, it was also job where an unplanned absence caused a pretty big disruption. My coworker also had health issues and although I don’t know for sure, I always assumed it was he was covered by intermittent FMLA leave. It was really frustrating because my coworkers and I had to cover his work, and when he would return he has always full of energy and had no signs that he had been ill. I know that my manager was frustrated too, and I know that had many conversations, but when its a real documented health issue, everybody tried their best to give him the benefit of the doubt and to be accommodating.
      At one point he voluntarily reduced his hours, and my manager was always supportive and gave us extra staffing when he could to help, but we still felt the effects of his frequent absences. For us, there was no perfect solution. And I can’t really offer any great advice other than to remember that your sick coworker is probably/possibly even more frustrated with her illness and feels badly about having to miss work. Also, while stressful, I did feel proud at my ability to handle our stressful days, and my manager was good about recognizing this as well and praising us for it.

      1. Kai*

        Thanks! Honestly that’s one thing that would make a big difference–if she would even acknowledge that this happens, I would feel better. Certainly she doesn’t need to apologize for being sick, but just saying hey guys, this is a busy week and I wish I could have been here…that would be nice. But it doesn’t feel like she really cares.

  28. Anon for this*

    I am asking on behalf of a friend who has a terminally ill parent and will likely have to have this conversation with her supervisor in the coming months: How do you tell your manager that you need bereavement time off/attend a funeral? Is email an acceptable form of communication or should this be an in-person conversation? I imagine it would be better to communicate this in person, but my friend admits that she cries very easily and is mortified at the idea of crying in front of her boss. I guess they don’t have the best relationship either, so that is added stress for her.

    Suggestions?

    1. Lily in NYC*

      I don’t see why this can’t be in email. If she feels weird about it, maybe she could actually write something about it in the email – like: “I apologize for not talking to you in person about this but I worry that I won’t be able to remain composed.” When it was time for me to go home to my dad’s deathbed, I lost it when I told my boss and ended up crying in his arms while he hugged me.

    2. Dang*

      I really think it’s fine to email. Reasonable people understand that this is a tough time and it’s a really hard thing to communicate.

    3. LCL*

      The way this works here, is, people tell me their relative is ailing and they will have to leave on short notice. Then when it happens, they just call and tell me. And I am always very accommodating, though I do vent on Ask a Manager if it causes us to be really short staffed. But I never give the employee a hard time about it.

    4. ThatGirl*

      I’ve had to do this too much in the last three years (all of my grandparents are now gone) and I’ve always done it over e-mail because I don’t want to cry while telling my boss. It’s also a bit more private. I see no problem with that.

    5. 42*

      I’m sorry your friend is going through this.

      I think I would send an email, in this case, and then perhaps follow it up with an in-person discussion. This accomplishes 2 things: It documents the request and gives her boss a heads up, and it also gives your friend a little room in her mind that the news has already been presented to her boss, which may take the sting out of having to break this terrible news in person, and then the emotional response that comes with it. While your friend still may cry – and understandably so – the topic has already been opened up, in the email.

      For the record, I don’t think ANYONE would hold it against her if she cried in a situation like this. She shouldn’t be mortified if it happens. We’re human.

    6. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      I am in a very similar situation, and also cry very easily, so it was best to keep it very short. “Boss, I need to let you know that my dad is very ill. I may need to take some time off in the near future, possibly with very little notice. I will try to keep things as up to date as possible in my files, but I can’t give you any certain dates.” It was fine. My boss said just to keep him notified when necessary.

    7. KR*

      I’m sorry for your friend. It’s hard watching your parents die. There’s no reason this can’t be done via email. Most people are very understanding when parents die because they can’t imagine their own parents dying, or have gone through it already. If her boss gives her a hard time about it, the boss an insensitive jerk and your friend shouldn’t worry about him.

    8. new reader*

      How does your friend normally advise her manager when she’s unexpectedly out of the office (sick days, etc.) or is there a company or office policy/procedure? If email is a normally accepted method of communication for time away from the office for sick days, it should be perfectly fine for bereavement leave.

      If it isn’t normally accepted at that work place, I do still agree with the others that in the case of bereavement, sending an email and using terminology such as Lily in NYC suggested shouldn’t be a problem.

    9. Rebecca in Dallas*

      I actually texted my boss when my father-in-law unexpectedly died. I let her know I would be out of the office and would call her when we had details sorted out. When I called her a couple of days later, I was much more composed than I would have been if I’d had to talk to her that day.

      I think if your friend is concerned that she’ll cry in front of her boss, it’s perfectly reasonable to email and even mention the reason she is emailing rather than having the conversation in person. Any normal person would be fine with that and would much rather not have to unexpectedly comfort a crying subordinate.

  29. AvonLady Barksdale*

    We kicked off the year with a work retreat for all of the people with my title. We’re a small group and we went to a beautiful place, so for the most part it was a good trip– more of us are on the same page about challenges and issues than I expected. We did a lot of PMAI work, figuring out our archetypes, and while I normally dismiss that kind of thing as psychobabble, I learned a lot about myself, including some very positive affirmation that I am in a great position to expand on some of my strengths.

    Sounds great, lots of momentum, heading into 2016 all fired up, right? Well, on our second day, we learned that a senior person was let go. This is someone I consider a friend, so I was upset on that level, but he managed/mentored one of our departments, and the people in that department– with whom I work very closely– are devastated. They’ve lost their leader with no warning*. He was blindsided, too, so no inkling for anyone. I feel a huge responsibility to make sure their workload is manageable; recently, it hasn’t been, so the “crutch” was to go to their boss and ask him to take some tasks off of their plates. We don’t have that option now. I’m also a little bit miffed that I was the only one of us who asked about the day-to-day plan moving forward– I think that’s because the rest of the group knew that management wouldn’t like that question, but damn, it’s necessary. I get accused of wasting too much mental energy on details. I think, “So… who do we go to for this stuff tomorrow” is a pretty freaking important detail.

    Does anyone have any advice for how I can help to ease this transition for them? I can’t do their jobs– I’ll just say it, they’re data analysts– but I assign them tasks. I feel like all I can do is assure them that I understand their anger and frustration and that I will push back as hard as I can and expand timelines as much as I can. Is there anything else I can do? Luckily, I have two projects going on right now that don’t need any data work at all, so I’m trying to stretch those out as long as I can.

    *I feel like this is a “hit by the bus” scenario, but if he had (G-d forbid) passed away suddenly, I don’t think anyone would have been so professionally upset.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      You could ask them what would be meaningful to them that is within the realm of doable on your side.

      I think that recognizing their sense of loss is powerful. And advocating for them in whatever ways make sense, is something you should do, definitely.

  30. Jessen*

    Any psychological tips on not letting the discouragements of job searching get to you? I’m trying to make the jump out of retail to a more professional position. I’m simultaneously over and under-qualified for most jobs out there, so it’s probably going to be a hard search. And I’m terrible at not getting discouraged when things don’t come through.

    1. Red Wheel*

      I took time off mentally by not job searching, thinking about my career or how much I hate my boss and my job from Thanksgiving until now. I was putting all of my mental energy into the strategizing and managing the situation and I really needed a mental break and needed to give myself permission to not think about it for a while. It helped. I also took some advice that I have heard elsewhere ( and I originally thought was silly): I focused on other things in my life that I enjoy and that I was happy with and reminded myself that although I hate my job, at a minimum it is financing my ability to pursue some hobbies and other things I enjoy.

    2. Kai*

      I’ve been job searching for a few years now and I get bummed out about it all the time. I try to put extra focus on things going on in my life outside work, like my friends and going to fun events and getting involved in clubs, so that it doesn’t feel like my job is the only measure of my success or happiness.

      Applying to lots and lots of jobs regularly also helps me, although I think that could easily work the other way–but it allows me to still have a lot of hope even when I get rejections from this place and that.

    3. Person of Interest*

      Ugh, I have been there – a year of unemployment and relentless job-searching. I stayed sane by stepping up my volunteer work, since I had more free time than other board members; by working toward a new running goal (ran a 10K!); and by having frequent coffee meetings with people in my network, just so I had a reason to get dressed up and head downtown for something productive. Good luck!

    4. Retail Lifer*

      I was discouraged for the majority of my job search, which lasted over a year. I don’t know if this is realistic for you, but I had to take a month off from applying to stuff. The constant rejections or lack of a response at all just got to me and I needed a break from it. Once I had some time away, I felt better mentally prepared to continue. It really is draining.

      1. Mirilla*

        That’s what I just did. I took a month off to clear my head. The job search really is a part time job in and of itself so you need breaks now and then. I agree it is draining!

  31. Deadline what deadline?*

    One of my colleagues was diagnosed with cancer just before Christmas, and is due to start chemo on Monday. She wants to keep working from home during this time, and the office has accommodated her in that.

    Anyone got any suggestions how we can best support her during this? (I’m not her manager, but I can certainly suggest things to her).

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Check in with her occasionally, but avoid long, “How are you feeling?” conversations. She’ll get that a lot. If you like her and have a good relationship, text or email her with fun office stuff, like, “The coffee pot in the breakroom burned again today!” or, as we would in our office, “Today’s sandwich special was super gross and you’re not missing anything.”

      Professionally, keep an eye on your own workload– don’t default to, “Jane has cancer so I should take everything off her plate!”, but if you can handle something, offer to do it. If she says no, don’t press. If you’re set up in a way that makes this possible, let her know that if it gets to be too much, she can delegate stuff to you, but it’s her call.

      1. Doriana Gray*

        Excellent advice!

        And good on your company for accommodating her work from home request, Deadline. The division I currently work in gave one of my coworkers permission to work from home when she was going through chemo, but then our boss told her she had to come back in and work from the office – after the company had already set her up at home.

    2. OriginalEmma*

      How close are you? Maybe you can coordinate an office “thinking of you” gift? For example, a card and a basket of candies, luxury bath/spa items, etc.

    3. LCL*

      Ask her what is her preferred mode of communication, phone or email. Strongly encourage email, because people receiving chemo often have trouble staying on top of things. Likewise, scheduling things with her will be harder, follow her lead on this. I know this sounds judgemental, but I don’t mean it that way. She will be tired and may be forgetful, is all.
      People having chemo will often feel awesome for most of the treatment, then hit a hard crash near the end. She may say she is feeling great, and she will work a full load, then the next day it will hit her and she will have to go to the hospital for short or long term stay.

  32. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

    So, I have some very exciting news on the job search front — thank you to everyone who offered sympathy after my last crazy interview! I am having my third and final interview for a position next week. So I have an interesting question regarding thank you notes, as I am in an industry that still likes handwritten thank you notes.

    Interview #1 was a phone interview with Sansa and Arya. At the end of the interview, Sansa said, “we definitely want to bring you in, and I will be in touch by the end of the week to arrange a time.” They also shared they were looking to hire mid-December and have this person start in January. So I sent email thank you notes.

    Interview #2 did not happen nearly as quickly as Sansa had suggested. I was brought in to interview in mid-December  I met in person with Sansa and Arya (who I really enjoyed talking with!). Because the institution is closed over the holiday break, I assumed I would not hear from them until January, but at the end of the interview, they mentioned trying to rush to the final meeting with the VP before the break. So I again sent electronic thank yous.

    Interview #3 is coming up next week, and I have inside knowledge that they are still on an ASAP mindset, even with the delays. This is with the VP and an AVP, who are the final decision-makers. However, I also have no clue if I am the first or last interview.

    Do I send an email thank you to everyone or do I risk it and do mailed thank you notes?

    1. Lily Rowan*

      You could do both? I think it’s overkill, but if you know the handwritten notes will be well-received, it might be your best option.

      1. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

        It’s so crazy, in my field they are pretty out-dated, but in my industry they are considered pretty standard and have been party of the hiring conversation.

  33. Dan*

    So… my company (non profit) actually kind of sorta takes employee surveys seriously. At least, they’re paying overhead money to put together teams to look into the weaknesses in our department and see what we can do to improve.

    While in some senses these things can be lip service, I told my boss that I know money talks, so they’re somewhat serious, and it doesn’t go completely unnoticed. My last job had somewhat similar issues, and management didn’t even want to talk about it. So there’s that.

    1. Clever Name*

      That’s good. I think it’s really important to get buy in and feedback. So many places just bulldoze initiatives through.

  34. Bowserkitty*

    I was an OP from a post last week regarding the coworker who forwarded stuff separately to my boss and seemed cold every other time – things seem back to normal now, we had a really friendly conversation earlier today about her week and it was like how things were my first few weeks here. Maybe she really does just have other stressors outside that sometimes get to her here…

    1. Dawn*

      If she’s being nice now and things have changed, maybe ask her about it? Not in a prying sense, just in a “Hey, I noticed you seemed stressed (at these particular times). Is there anything I can do to make your life easier in case that happens again?” That’d set you up well for if it happens in the future, and your co-worker would probably appreciate it!

  35. Grey*

    There was a discussion a couple of weeks ago about putting degrees and certifications in your email signature but it doesn’t address the question I have. Where should it go on your resume? Can I put “Stanley Roper, CAM” at the top of my resume where my name is? I’d like it to be one of the first things noticed. Or, should I just list it in the education section?

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      Certifications yes. Especially widely recognized ones. Degrees, no, there should be a education section to list those out on your resume.

    3. Doriana Gray*

      I list my designations in the education section of my resume per the advice of my former manager, but that may be industry specific.

    4. Treena*

      I would put that in the profile section, if possible. If it’s something that is absolutely required no questions and/or not relevant, then it doesn’t need to be so prominent.

  36. Puffle*

    I’ve been unemployed for several months now and I am getting so sick of the job centre staff. Whenever I talk to anyone- literally anyone- outside of the job centre about being unemployed, the attitude is, “It happens to all of us from time to time, there’s nothing wrong with it, etc etc”, but as soon as I set foot in the job centre I’m treated like I’ve been shoplifting or something. I’m applying to jobs left, right and centre, I’m getting interviews and call-backs, I’m doing research and writing cover letters etc, yet the staff act like I’m some parasite leeching money from the state.

    On the bright side, everyone else I meet has been very sympathetic and helpful, and several people have gone out of their way to help me, so I guess I just have to focus on that. I just find it ironic that the job centre is supposed to help me find employment yet every time I leave there I feel so down and demoralised that I can’t focus on anything.

    1. Merry and Bright*

      Are you in the UK? I had exactly the same experience three years ago and it is truly horrible. The attitude can be nasty. Yet it is other people’s unemployment that puts them in work so they might stop and think about that. You have my complete sympathy.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I hate that. I wonder if they just get burnt out seeing so many people who are frustrated, worried, etc. or if they don’t like dealing with it because it could be them.

  37. Relosa*

    Ok, so, for one: HI EVERYONE! I know I haven’t been here for months. My job took up a ton of my time (and energy, mostly). It was just 40 hours but without a car I was Metro commuting 2 hours each way. Blah!

    Bad (good?) news: got laid off on Sunday, with of course zero severance, after having a lot more furlough during the holidays than I planned on.

    Good (Great?!) news: a company I have tried several years to work with started recruiting me two days ago (!) for the exact type of position in my field that I’m looking for (!!) that NEVER opens up (!!!) I’m still applying to other places of course but when your field is as niche as mine, it’s really hard not to get hyper-focused on an opportunity. I’m especially trying to remind myself that the recruiter (internal) seems a little bit green still. During our conversation yesterday, we talked about how they actually have three of these types of positions open because of growth and expansion plans. One is more senior than the other two. He said he wanted to recommend me for the senior spot, but even if that wasn’t viable that they “Definitely had a spot for me somewhere” <~~ that kind of concerns me as much as it makes me happy because the interview went so well. I'm okay with either the junior or senior positions because the salary is fair and there are full benefits besides so I'm not complaining :)

    OKAY that's about all I had to say for now. Squee!

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Welcome back! I’m so sorry to hear you got laid off but it seems like serendipity that you are being recruited for something you really want to do. Good luck!!!

    2. Retail Lifer*

      I’m not one who believes in fate, but if I did this would totally be it! Keep us posted on this and maybe I’ll change my mind.

  38. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Another question! But this one is broader and, I hope, more fun and interesting.

    I learned yesterday that a client is very happy with the way two recent projects have gone. This is great, of course, because at least one of them was a giant beast and I thought it sucked, so their happiness is very gratifying. However, this happiness means that they now want to give us more work (terrific!), including repeating this giant beast on an annual basis (not so terrific!) and giving us several more projects. So we have a Catch-22– happy client = more projects = more work = the inability to take on other projects unless we want ALB to totally burn out by June = ALB doesn’t get to work on other clients more in line with her experience and expertise.

    What are your work Catch-22s? What’s come up that sounded super awesome but turned out to be not so great?

    1. Tris Prior*

      I had a similar one to yours. Get assigned tough project, kick serious ass at it, client is happy… resulting in getting assigned the toughest projects with the most ridiculous deadlines because “you’re so good at this and no one else could handle it as well.” Result: Tris pulls 80-hour weeks for a good four months, working every Saturday and Sunday, while Four, Caleb, and Christina all leave at 5 p.m. and take long vacations because their projects are easy.

      Current catch-22: Company has layoff. We try various things to get sales up so that maybe we can hire people back. That works; sales go up. But we don’t have the staff to keep up with orders, much less continue doing the things that got sales to go up. Result: sales go back down, and now the company’s closing. :(

    1. Not Karen*

      I’ve had interviews that lasted all day – two interview panels in the morning, lunch with prospective coworkers, less-structured meetings with higher-ups in the afternoon.

        1. Not Karen*

          I’ve had two all-day interviews (different companies) and was offered one of the jobs. Yes, I was ready to collapse by the end of it. Unfortunately I had to get on a plane instead!

    2. Merry and Bright*

      Four hours. I felt like I had sold my soul by the end. That was in 2013.

      (I haven’t heard back yet so I assume I wasn’t successful!)

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      My longest interview was two hours over Skype in thirty-minute sessions back to back with different teams of people. That was the worst! Couldn’t get up or stretch, constantly had to make sure I was in camera view and listening for audio when the video connection went fuzzy… so awkward. Plus, two hours is just long when you have to be on the whole time.

    4. Honks*

      I once had an 8 hour interview made up of a one hour job talk, twelve 30 min one-on-ones and a one hour lunch with two more people.

    5. BRR*

      I had one go from 9 until 3:30. This was after a 30 min phone screen and 2 hour skype interview.

      Two challenges are tied for first
      -I was asked a question by an HR person which while part of my department in no way relates to what I would be doing. I really wanted to just reject the question .
      -I had an interviewer who acted like I killed her family. Right from the moment I walked in she was bitch eating crackers. Her email to schedule the interview was probably the most well written too. She also started off by asking if I had any questions which I can handle but I hate.

    6. Tammy*

      When I interviewed for my first role at my current company (I’ve been promoted twice since I’ve been here) I had five interviews before I was hired: phone interview with recruiter, phone interview with hiring manager, in person interview with hiring manager and department executive, in person interview with the team I was joining, in person interview with the CEO. This was a mid-sized company when I joined and is much larger now, but I was pretty senior even in my first role, so the CEO wanted to meet me. In all, those five interviews probably added up to about 10 hours of total time by the time I was done.

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I was once flown to LA for a 20-hour stay. My flight landed at 2am. I reported to their office at 10am and left at 3pm. I met with about 6 people, including someone who had no clue how to interview (I basically led the conversation). I had a lunch meeting with my potential boss, which I hated because I was tired AND had to eat AND had to talk. Everyone was pretty cool, though.

      I didn’t get the job. Apparently, no one listened to me when I told them on the phone that I wasn’t a data analyst.

    8. A.J.*

      I had an interview a few months ago for a *contract* position that went almost 6 hours. And since this was for a contract role (as a floor manager that would be managing up to 50 people), they did not offer me lunch half way through like the company would do for full-time candidates. In fact, they couldn’t even offer me water or any snacks because apparently they had just moved into a new building and didn’t have cups or vending machines. Of course they saved the meeting with the hiring manager for last, and by then I completely crashed and lost all mental focus, and my stomach was growling really loudly. I have since learned to always bring snacks and a water with me to interviews since you just never know. Funniest part is that I got into a different contract position with that company that had only a 1 hour interview for a role I was better suited for anyway.

  40. Amber Rose*

    Husband’s horrible, sexist, rude and verbally violent manager was demoted and replaced yesterday. So good things do happen occasionally. Still have crossed fingers that he gets a job offer Monday though.

    I am running out of toolbox meeting topics. Next week is fatigue. After that, I dunno. How am I supposed to do these for years? :0

    2. Betty (the other Betty)*

      What were some of the other meeting topics? How long are the meetings?

      Keep in mind that you can repeat topics, especially yearly but maybe even more often if you take a different angle.
      Fatigue: how it affects productivity.
      Fatigue: 10 easy tips to reduce it.
      Fatigue: Is coffee the answer?
      Fatigue: Just tired or dangerously sleep-deprived, how to tell the difference.
      Fatigue: Stretches and breathing techniques to help you wake up.
      Fatigue: Come discuss what works for you!
      And so on…

    3. Clever Name*

      I love workplace justice. I got some that was 2 years in the making. It’s pretty sweet.

      Toolbox topics: just rotate the topics. Keeping them seasonal is good. Here’s a good one: I fell in the field a few times last month, and I think I fell because I was coming down with a cold. I wasn’t feeling great and my sinuses were jacked up. So maybe discuss how feeling ill can impact safety.

    1. Doriana Gray*

      Congrats! I’ve still got five days to go before I start my new job so I know the feeling of glee :)

  42. Lynn*

    I’m going back to work after a few month break (of my own choice) in employment and I’m working with a staffing agency to start temping and get back into the groove of going to work again. They ask for the contact info of my three most recent supervisors. I’m not worried about two of them, but the third I’m nervous about since I left with a not great performance history. I’m sending the three of them a courtesy email so they aren’t surprised by being contacted if people check references. I’ve never used any of them as references before, so I have no idea how they will go, but I don’t know if anyone has advice or well wishes, I’m glad for anything! Meeting with the agency on Monday afternoon.

    1. Doriana Gray*

      Is there any way you can contact the person you’re worried about and ask what kind of reference they’d give? If she sounds less than enthusiastic about being a reference, is there a way you could negotiate what she says about you in the event she gets contacted anyway?

      Good luck!

  43. squids*

    Waiting to hear back on a job I interviewed for in December. One of two candidates they’re considering. Having everyone go on holidays immediately after has dragged out the process … This is the first opportunity I’ve had for advancement without moving to a new town in a long, long time and I’m really hoping for the best.

    2. Emily*

      Good luck! My boyfriend is in a similar position (in his case, he was the first interviewee AND he interviewed a few weeks before the holidays), so I understand your desire to hear back. Hopefully things go well for you.

  44. Smelly Employee*

    About a month ago, I spoke with one of my employees about the fact that she smelled unpleasant and wasn’t meeting our dress code expectations. It went well and she made significant improvements the next day, and has been appropriately dressed ever since. The odor was resolved too, until we went on holiday break. Now that we’ve returned, it’s so bad again. Like, I can smell her from more than five feet away. How do I deal with this conversation a second time? Is it the same conversation as the first, or do I approach it differently? This is so awkward – it was bad enough to have to have this conversation once, I am dreading having to have it a second time.

    1. Adam V*

      I’d hope it could be straightforward – call her in and say “we talked about this a few weeks ago, and it got better, but since your return from the holidays the unpleasant smell has returned. You need to fix this permanently this time, because this is your final warning about this issue.” Depending on how your company does things, you may need to have her sign a written warning (a lot of companies have a verbal warning -> written warning -> serious consequences setup for issues like this).

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m not great at this stuff, but you can try to approach it from a positive perspective. She implemented some changes that worked, so can she try those again? I wonder what it was about break that made things regress.

    3. Clix*

      Does she have an underlying medical condition? Not sure on the type of smell but we’ve had IBS folks before who really couldn’t help some things, the same with a morbidly obese man and a woman with a recurrent vaginitis (only at a certain time of month) due to medication allergy that took a while to resolve – in a small office it was… Oy.

    4. TCO*

      As with any other performance issue, it’s important to point out the pattern. Praise the progress she made, but then be very clear that this pattern can’t keep continuing.

      If you have an EAP, you can also mention that as a general resource if it’s possible that the problem is related to medical or mental health, lack of laundry/shower facilities, etc.

    5. BRR*

      I would add to the original that you’ve discussed this before and if it keeps happening you’ll have to proceed down whatever path your company has for disciplinary procedures.

    6. Jen*

      Dress code is easier than odor. It’s a policy; employ is violating it. Give her a formal verbal warning “this is a formal verbal warning; the next step is a written warning.”

      Odor…have you met with HR? Could this be medical in any way? Always best to get a gut check on this before proceeding to understand the risks. If you get the green light, I would do this as a f/up to the dress code point and let them know there is an unprofessional odor, let them know of any resources, schedule a check in to follow up on both issues. At check in you can say, “going great! Keep it up!” Or not.

  45. Anon for this*

    I work in direct social services, and this week I got physically threatened by a client when I was alone in the office. Thankfully I made it out unscathed, but I was very shaken by it. Almost worse, in my conversations with management about it, they’ve never once said anything like “I’m so sorry that happened” or even “That must have been scary.” I don’t know if it’s a lack of empathy, a lack of social intelligence, or if they specifically don’t say sorry because of fears of liability. In any case, it’s been very demoralizing. Overall I like my job, but it’s making me want to find a new one. =\

    1. LizB*

      I’m so sorry this happened, Anon for this. Your management should be way more supportive than they’re being. Those types of situations are very scary, and I can’t see how they would be opening themselves up to any liability to say so. Are they at least taking steps to make sure similar situations are less likely happen in the future (changing staffing procedures, moving this client to another worker, or whatever makes sense)?

    2. Lily in NYC*

      I have to believe it’s due to liability worries – my office acted the same way when an EVP trapped his assistant in his office and tried to punch her. They treated her like a criminal even though he admitted trying to hit her. It was the absolute worst way they could have handled it because she felt completely demoralized, and it made the depression she already had much worse. All she needed was some compassion. Have you thought about asking them why they seem so unconcerned for your safety? Put them on the defensive.
      I hope you won’t have to see the person who threatened you again. I’m so sorry about what happened. And it’s such a shitty feeling when no one validates our very reasonable feelings.

      1. I'm a Little Teapot*

        I suspect it’s also partly that the aggressor was an EVP and the victim an admin. Some places take the attitude that the higher-ranking person is always right and that lowly non-superstars should just meekly take any abuse they get and just be grateful that they’ve been generously provided with a job.

        /cynic

    3. Lyric*

      Ugh, that’s so scary. I work in social services too, and I’ve been fortunate that none of the incidents with my clients have ever gone past the level of unnerving, but I know too well that feeling of just…a general lack of support from higher-ups. As if coming to work wasn’t difficult enough without wondering whether or not your physical safety is going to be compromised.

      In my dysfunctional workplace, liability is definitely the reason behind the cold response by management, but I hope your agency is a better environment. :/

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I think they just figure it’s part of the job. What scares me here, is that they did not instruct you on proper documentation nor did they say anything about how to protect yourself in the future. And that would push me toward the door.

      I think management sometimes gets so far removed from direct care that they do not know/remember what it is like.

      Go back in again, and ask them what the plan is to prevent these situations. Remind them that they could have a workmen’s comp case, bad publicity in the paper and a number of other unpleasant things. Tell them it is in their best interest to have documentation, procedures etc on hand. Everyone should be well-versed on the paper trail and action plan any time an instance such as your comes up.

      If you are in a union, go to your union rep.

      Knowing what I know about human services, I’d probably have to leave. So no, your not overreacting at all.

    5. Paige Turner*

      I’m posting on Saturday so I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I’m also sorry this happened! I’d say the least your employer can do is to make sure that an employee is never alone in the office with a client. That just seems like Safety 101.

  46. weasel007*

    Ughhh, today I have to submit my self assessment for my performance review. This is one of my least liked activity of being a working adult. I’ve had manages in 3 years, so each time I have no idea how much detail they add. One wrote paragraphs and had kept a listing. My 2nd wrote one sentence on each section. I have no idea how my new manager will do it. Ugggghhhhhh.

    1. Adam V*

      What I usually end up doing is to look back on the previous year’s and update a few things here and there, along with including some of what my manager suggested I work on.

    4. KR*

      Got my self assessment paperwork the other day and I have until the end of the month to do it. Really not looking forward to it. Half the stuff on the page barely applies to me.

    5. Doriana Gray*

      I sympathize – mine is due the 22nd when I’ll be in a new division with a new manager, but my soon-to-be former manager will get to complete this. Ugh.

    6. Beezus*

      Mine wasn’t too bad this year. Last year I had two jobs and six (!!) different direct managers over the course of the year, haha!

  47. OriginalEmma*

    We talk about how women are conditioned to be soft, nice and considerate. We use too much self-depreciating language in e-mails instead of just asking for what we need. Well, Google has a solution to that problem where it relates to e-mail. The “Just Not Sorry” app underlines words like just and sorry, among others, to alert the writer to the fact that they may be acting overly deferential. I love it!

    What say you, commentariot?

    2. Golden Yeti*

      The email writer could also be Canadian. :)

      Good idea, though. Sometimes it’s easy to fall back to the path of least resistance without realizing it.

    3. overeducated and underemployed*

      I think it depends. Sometimes, I consciously do adopt that overly hesitant “feminine” tone because it helps build rapport with people in certain positions and paves the way for polite requests. Often, I try not to, because I want to be seen as direct and competent. But the fact that women are told to be deferential and self-deprecating means that sometimes people expect it, and respond positively to it, and I don’t see why we shouldn’t use that as another tool in the box in the right context.

      1. Bangs not Fringe*

        I appreciate the blog’s POV.

        But personally, I find myself apologizing for things and self-deprecating at work, especially by email, without reason… It’s unnecessary. And I don’t believe it should be a “woman’s behavior”. As an intelligent professional I take responsibility for my actions but there is no reason to soften the blow of innocuous and routine emails.

        1. BRR*

          I do that too (I’m a man) and my manager is coaching me to stop. I cam across a great article that was about instead of saying sorry, say thank you. So instead of “sorry to interrupt” say “thank you for taking a second to listen.”

      2. I'm a Little Teapot*

        YES. Traditionally “masculine” behavior is often rude, egotistical, and inconsiderate. I’d much rather see men socialized to be nice than women socialized to steamroll over everyone and stalk around the office angry and self-important. Why is it that women are always the problem?

  48. Mimmy*

    I have a bit of an ethical quandary. I’m trying not to identify myself and the related groups, so apologies if the vagueness is confusing.

    I’m on a government-appointed state-level council, which collaborates with a network of associations in my field of interest, some of which we have paid membership to. This includes having exhibitor tables at conferences.

    There is a conference coming up in March that we usually exhibit at that I am interested in attending this year. However, we do not have a paid membership with the hosting association. At yesterday’s monthly meeting, which I had to miss part of due to a prior commitment, the group apparently discussed applying for membership so that council members can attend the conference, probably in my response to my expressed interest in attending.

    I think membership in this association, as well as attendance at this conference, is very appropriate given the council’s work. However, I have to admit that part of my interest in attending is for my own professional interests (networking and CEU credits) and an interest in seeing one of the keynote speakers. So yes, it’ll be very beneficial for the work of my council, but I feel bad that this is for my own professional benefit as well.

    I’m thinking of disclosing this to the council chairperson but am worried of poking the hornet’s nest and creating unnecessary problems. We’re a small group and are all friendly with each other, so that helps.

    1. katamia*

      It’s hard to be completely certain without more specifics, but it doesn’t sound like this is anything you should feel bad about. It doesn’t sound very different from, say, wanting to learn a specific software program that will help your employer but that will also help you down the road if you decide to change jobs. Conferences are always going to be networking opportunities. Most people understand that.

      1. Shan*

        I agree and that’s a good analogy. I work for a membership association (and we are part of other membership organizations too) and I don’t see any reason to disclose that. There are multiple reasons and benefits to joining and organization, for the group and its individuals. OP, the problem is that you see networking, hearing the keynote speaker, and CEU credits as your own professional interests, but I think you having those things will also benefit your council, too!

        1. Shan*

          I gotta add, I think it would almost be weird if an employee said, “But I’m going to benefit from this membership in my personal professional interests too, is that okay?” Especially since, as you note, it’s very appropriate for the council to have membership in the organization anyway. It’d be different if the council didn’t have an interest or anything to gain from membership in this particular organization and you signed them up anyway for your own gain.

    2. LCL*

      Is the council you are part of a non profit/charity? Because most of us hope that the work we do is for our professional benefit, as well as for the benefit of the employer. Nothing to feel guilty about, as long as you go to the conference and participate. Now if you go to the conference but don’t actually attend sessions and spend your time in the bar and on the golf course instead you should feel guilty…

      1. Mimmy*

        It’s a little confusing to explain – it is an entity IN but NOT OF a particular department in the state government. However we are also considered a non-profit (not a charity though).

    3. cuppa*

      I don’t really see any reason to disclose this, honestly. I also don’t see any reason to feel bad about it. I work for something that is publicly funded, and I’m very involved in my state level organization. A lot of times, the benefit for the library and the benefit for myself can’t be separated, and I think that’s ok.

      For instance, if I present at a conference about a project my place of business is working on, I’m serving both the organization and myself. I’m sharing ideas and collaborating, building relationships and partnerships, and I’m bringing those things back to my work to share with others. Sometimes a relationship comes from that which creates a job opportunity for myself as well, and I think that’s ok too.

    4. Mimmy*

      Thanks for the input so far! This helps a lot :)

      This is not part of any paid employment–it is strictly volunteer but we do get reimbursed for any money spent related to meetings and other council work, such as gas mileage or (in my case) use of public transportation / taxis.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You are fine. People do this all the time without batting an eye.

      The only thing I would do is stay on topic. Like if I was talking to someone who I hoped would hire me in the future, I would not talk about job openings, because that is not what we are there for. HOWEVER, if I applied for a job I would not have any problem saying, “We meet at X conference 18 months ago and we had an interesting discussion on Y situation. Perhaps you’ll remember me from that time.”

  49. TheIntern*

    Officially began “The Great Job Search of 2016” January 1st. Already had 2 phone interviews so I’m feeling pretty positive! :)

  50. acmx*

    I have an internal interview next week! I’m hesitantly excited about the prospect. I’m really new to the company so I don’t have the internal network as other candidates. Rumor has it that the job I essentially for someone who already does a similar job and for this customer. So, I know I’m a decent candidate overall, I’m not sure I would be picked over someone essentially already doing the job.

    But I will give it my best shot in the interview!

    1. Doriana Gray*

      Good luck! You never know what will happen so stay positive – the other person could be so confident she’s going to get it, that she screws up royally.

  51. Gene*

    Most enjoyable part of the week for me, the 2-day long “discussion” over Reply All email I got to watch about whether or not to move from disposable plastic flatware at get-togethers (Potlucks/Retirements/etc) to washable stainless flatware. It was a great comic relief to returning to work after 10 days off.

    1. Hlyssande*

      We had a fun one a few weeks back that devolved into memes from people all over the world. I may have saved a bunch of them for future use.

      1. Gene*

        They are still accepting donations of old flatware. And evidently the main opponent has had a box of plastic flatware left in his office with a “Sanitized For Your Protection” band around it.

    3. CheeryO*

      I have an “LOL” folder in Outlook that gets 90% of its content from Reply-All incidents.

  52. AnonymousaurusRex*

    Okay, so I have my dream job, pretty much. I love what I do and the people I work with. I have a great time at work, excellent benefits, I feel like I’m getting recognition for my position, etc. I get every other Friday off, and I work at home on Wednesdays. I’m living the dream.

    However (A BIG however) I have two problems with my current employment:
    1) I have a 30 mile-each-way commute, that in LA traffic can take 1-2 hours each direction. (I can’t afford to move closer, see #2)
    2) I am not really making as much money as I’d like to be making, and that I think my skill-set could command at the right company. By lets say 30%. (Current small company has been in financially unstable, so a raise, even just a little one, is unlikely anytime soon.)

    I applied to, and interviewed for, a new position at a big, well-paying company. It is easy biking distance from my home. I can definitely do the work. I would be at least adequate at it, but the work will not be nearly as fun and engaging as my work is now, and rather than working with a great team, I’d be on my own quite a bit. I might like the work okay, or I might hate the work, but there is little chance that I’ll get the joy I get each day at my job now.

    If I get a job offer from this company that meets my requested salary (30%+ more than I’m making now) do I take the job? Would you?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I absolutely would. It’s great to get joy from your job (but also somewhat of a luxury) but for me, the improved quality of life outside of work (by having an extra 2-4 hours a day and a higher salary), would also make me joyful.

    2. ThatGirl*

      You have to decide what is most important to you. I know, I know, weasel answer?

      Does the commute suck the life out of you? Would you be able to perhaps get another work at home day? Are you feeling financially strapped?

      After being recruited for a high-paying, high-stress, long-working-hours job, I realized that what I value right now is a good working environment, a good boss, and flexibility in my workday and week. I would take another, higher-paying job with a shorter commute IF the commute was drastically shorter (to make up for not being able to work from home), the job seemed interesting and like something I would actually get satisfaction out of, and the company culture seemed like a good fit.

      But doubling my salary while expecting me to work 55-hour-plus weeks in a high-stress environment plus a commute? That’s not worth it to me.

      1. AnonymousaurusRex*

        That’s the problem. I *do* feel kind of financially strapped (and my partner and I are trying to make it one one income since she’s back in school) and the commute is definitely impacting my life negatively. I initially assumed that I’d do the commute for a year, and then we’d either move closer or away altogether. But moving closer isn’t a financial possibility, and after a year and a half it’s kind of killing me (and my 1977 Benz, which isn’t the most comfy commuting car).

        At the same time though, I get the feeling that the time I save commuting at the new job might be eaten up by extra time *working* at the new job doing work I am not thrilled about. (Glassdoor, if it’s to be believed says work life balance isn’t so great there).

        I feel like I couldn’t turn down the job if it was offered though, mostly because of the money…I oddly find myself hoping that I don’t get the job, but at the same time fantasizing about what it would be like to ride my bike to work every day…

        1. overeducated and underemployed*

          If you’re hoping you don’t get the job…you know what you want. Whether it’s what you should do financially, I don’t know, but that’s a sign.

        2. ThatGirl*

          I agree with overeducated, if you find in your gut that you’re hoping you don’t get it, that might tell you something.

          Work/life balance can vary between departments, too. So take glassdoor with a pinch of salt. And remember that you might be able to take the job, sock away the extra money you’d save, and move on to something else in a year or two.

          1. AnonymousaurusRex*

            Yeah.. I mean, I’m more hoping I don’t get it so I don’t have to make the decision, not that I’m definitely dreading taking the new job, just making such a hard decision.

    3. Jubilance*

      I’d take it in a heartbeat, but that’s because of what I value. I hate long commutes, and after being a finalist for a job in LA and seeing the bad traffic, I know there’s no way I could stomach a 1-2hr commute each day. I also value $$$, or should I say, making a market rate salary for my skills and experience that allows me some flexibility in my lifestyle. Are those things of value to you? If so, then you know what to do. Best of luck!

    4. Doriana Gray*

      I get bored easily so I’d stick with the job I already have assuming I wasn’t struggling financially. More money is great, but if I’m not enjoying the work or interacting with good people (especially during stressful situations), it wouldn’t be worth it to me.

    5. overeducated and underemployed*

      I think your gut will tell you then. The question is whether the 2-4 hours you spend commuting is bad enough to outweigh the portion of your 8 hours at your job that actually brings you joy, and honestly, I think that’s a “heart” decision, not a “head” decision. I wouldn’t do it only for the money if you don’t *need* the money.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      As others have mentioned, you know to figure out what your own priorities are, but since you asked “Would you?” I wouldn’t. Your current job sounds great. I’ve had commutes in the 90-120 minutes range, so I know that can be horrible, but you’re going in 3.5 days a week (one day at home every week, another day off completely every other week), and you actually like your work. I would stay.

      1. AnonymousaurusRex*

        Yeah– the fact that I have the flexibility to not do that commute 5 days/week is what has allowed my current job to be sustainable. I’d lose my mind, otherwise. :)

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I think you are asking us to convince you to take this job when you really don’t want to.

      There. I said it. Did you suddenly feel relieved? If yes, then that is your answer.

      If no, you still feel in knots then consider how long would you stay with Boring Job? Can you do a three year sprint? Can you keep your promise to yourself to get out of there when the time comes?

      What does your other half think you should do? Yeah, that is important to get what the SO thinks into the mix.

      As for myself, I would not do the commute you have, period. Just no. No job is worth a slow death and that is exactly how I would frame it in my head.

    8. mkb*

      I don’t think I would leave a job I’m truly happy at for more money, especially one with the perks you mention.

    9. Soupspoon McGee*

      Consider option 3: keep applying for jobs that are in line with what you want to do, closer to your home, for a competitive salary. You said that people with your skillset make 30% more elsewhere, so look at the competition for possible openings. That means staying at your current job a while longer while you look.

  53. NurseTeachy*

    So I recently moved to the midwest, and as a nursing instructor I looked around to apply to a bunch of nursing colleges around here. This particular application blew me away, and made me laugh so hard I thought I’d share it with you all: https://www.goshen.edu/employment/faculty-information-form/

    I previously taught at a Catholic institution, but their form asked nothing about my religion, my pastor, or (my favorite question from that application) how I would describe my relationship with Jesus. A large part of me wanted to apply and say something like “Oh yeah, the J-man and I are bros, we have D&D night every Thursday.” but I was convinced not to by my husband (who is obviously no fun at all).

    Just thought it’d bring a bit of humor to you all as well – I thought I’d seen it all with academic applications, but little did I know the…unique-ness of the applications here in the midwest!

    2. TowerofJoy*

      It’s Mennonite. Pretty standard stuff. Schools that religious generally don’t expect outsiders, or at least not ones that don’t have a clear understanding of what their religion entails.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Mennonites are very much like the Amish, with some leeway in permitted activities (driving, some clothing differences, etc.). Both are somewhat common where I live. The Amish make dandy rural neighbors. :)

        One of the Christian colleges here has a very similar application page (it’s not Mennonite but still rather strict). They say no fornication, no homosexual activity, no cursing, and no dancing. When I saw that last, I started singing the title song from Footloose, LOL.

        1. TowerofJoy*

          Now its stuck in my head! Haha. But yes, its a big stretch from the Catholics who are a little more fast and loose with the rules. I mean, summer festival fundraisers at Catholic churches often involve beer gardens and gambling.

          1. MsChandandlerBong*

            Yeah, that was a surprise to me. I’m Methodist, and I don’t think we’re all that strict, but my church doesn’t do bingo night or raffles because they constitute gambling. I went to the Catholic church downtown for a special event, and here they had the whole basement set up with bingo pull cards, table games, and open betting on horse races. Someone put a statue of Jesus in the freezer to make room for a roulette wheel!

        3. Canadian Natasha*

          Have you heard that joke (substitute whichever appropriate conservative religious denomination fits):
          Why do baptists forbid premarital s*x?
          Because it might lead to dancing.
          ;)

          Note: Self-directed humour. My family used to go to a baptist church and are currently mennonite (although a very different sort of mennonite, more the “hipster” meet in pubs and coffee shops and big on social justice issues variety. Yes that exists)

          1. Canadian Natasha*

            Also, there are Mennonite hospitals? We have some Catholic ones here but I didn’t know that other branches of Christianity did that too. Interesting.

            1. Canadian Natasha*

              Aaand I re-read the thread and realized the mennonite specification wasn’t part of the original comment. Nvm that…

        4. ThatGirl*

          Sorry to butt in but most Mennonites are indistinguishable from anyone else, and also we were around before the Amish. You must not know any urban Mennonites.

      2. NurseTeachy*

        Gotta admit, I hadn’t previously encountered Mennonites before. It just gave me a giggle – wasn’t expecting that on an application for a nursing job.

    3. ThatGirl*

      Hi, I’m late to this but my parents both went to Goshen. The thing is, while faith is important there they are not that conservative. Mostly they want to know that you respect Mennonite theology.

  54. lfi*

    How would you all handle being given a “coaching notice” at work for a mistake you made in your first 3 months of a new job when it was your first time handling it and being the sole person in your role after your counterpart quit?
    My boss said that it won’t affect my raise or bonus (which the document states – it just won’t let me be promoted within the next 60 days). I fully admitted to the mistake (which my boss made two weeks prior), fixed the mistake, and will ensure it doesn’t happen again. We’ve also really taken the time to look at all of our processes and procedures to tighten everything up.
    Boss was not thrilled about having to document it. Everyone else I’ve spoken with seems to think it’s BS, and I’ve been advised to write a statement of my own.

    How would you handle this?

    1. Rex*

      It’s hard to give you solid advice on this without knowing the politics of your employer, since this sounds like politics — since your supervisor was obligated to do this even though they aren’t happy about it. If you have a colleague whose judgement you trust, I would discuss this with them.

      1. lfi*

        i’ve spoken to our HR rep in the office and she was the one who considered it BS.

        i think our department is being heavily scrutenized right now so they almost had to do it to make a point/example. my previous coworker was also written up for a similar mistake… but others who have made them don’t even get a verbal.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I would either write an explanation underneath OR I would write “My signature indicates receipt of this document, only. It does not mean I agree with the contents.”

      And I would say something to the boss, “I guess this means I should not attempt anything new if no one is around. I do not want to risk another write up.”

  55. Cath in Canada*

    So, I’m a relatively competent computer user, but any time I have anyone watching me – and especially if my monitor’s being projected onto a big screen during a meeting – I turn into an absolute clumsy eejit who’s never typed before, can’t remember keyboard shortcuts, and has to click ALL the menu options before finding the right one. It doesn’t help that I use a MacBook at home, but non-Mac laptops at work meetings.

    This hasn’t been a huge problem until now because any time I’m in this situation it’s either been in meetings with my own team, where we all just laugh about how none of us can use a computer in public, or I’m running a meeting with VIPs where all I really have to do is load other people’s slides. But I’ve just inherited a project where the meetings tend to get more complicated: I often have to type long URLs, download documents, search my email or our online ticket system, etc., all on the fly, in front of bigwigs. I’ve tried to get people to send me their materials in advance, but there’s always something extra that comes up during the meeting.

    Any tips for improving my performance when computer use becomes a spectator sport? Just practice, or is there more I can do?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Are you mirroring your display or using the projector as an extended desktop?

      If you’re not already doing so, I’d recommend the latter. That way, you can do thigns (type URLs, download documents, search email, etc.) on your private laptop screen, and then when the stuff is ready, drag the items over to the projector screen for people to see. It may make you less self-conscious.

    2. Natalie*

      I have a suggestion cribbed from performance – slo o o o w down. Most unpracticed people talk way too fast in front of an audience (you might have noticed this during wedding toasts) because our perceptions change when we’re nervous. I’m guessing something similar happens using a computer in front of a group. Breathe evenly and move more slowly and deliberately than you think you need to. Your audience probably won’t notice a thing.

      1. Cath in Canada*

        I’m sure you’re right now I think about it! (I definitely talk too fast a lot of the time). I have a relatively easy meeting in an hour so I’ll try slowing down and see how it goes. Thanks!

    3. Computer Guy Eli*

      Control + C Copies
      Control + V Pastes
      Alt + Tab Switches windows
      Control + F searches through (almost) any window
      Control + Tab flips through tabs on windows.
      I can’t really think of anything that can help you specifically though, Maybe try memorizing those? I’ll keep thinking though.

      1. Cath in Canada*

        I know all of these and use them all the time – when no-one’s watching! When I’m being watched I invariably hit the wrong buttons. Part of it’s due to different keyboard layout compared to my home laptop and work desktop, part of it is because of being watched…

    4. Windchime*

      No suggestions, because I am the same way. I type about 90 wpm when I’m in my cube by myself. But some kind of typing anxiety comes over me when people are watching me type and I am just like you; fumbling for the keys and unable to do anything that makes sense. It doesn’t help that I’m usually also typing on a strange keyboard and everyone is watching the (huge) monitor on the wall. It’s very nerve-wracking.

  56. Not Today Satan*

    Something that’s been frustrating me about my job–I’ve heard from like four people, multiple times, how highly management thinks of me. And don’t get me wrong, it’s encouraging. But…. I never actually get praise from management directly. In fact, feedback in general from my manager is practically nonexistent. I don’t need constant praise, but a simple message from my boss about exceeding expectations would be very encouraging.

    1. KR*

      Ask! Schedule a meeting with your supervisor and ask them for an idea of how you’ve been doing recently.

    2. TCO*

      Are you familiar with the concept of appreciation/love languages? It might that your manager sucks at feedback, or it might be that how they show approval (for example, by giving you new projects or encouraging you to head out early on Friday) is out of sync with the kinds of approval that are most meaningful to you (like words).

      I don’t mean to question whether your manager sucks at feedback, but it could be something to consider.

  57. CrazyCatLady*

    How many emails do y’all send and/or receive in a day, on average?
    I’m usually around 75-125 for both sent and received.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’m around 50-75. That feels like a reasonable amount. I’m not drowning in it; I can prioritize and handle it without it becoming all I do.

    3. MaryMary*

      I’d say 50-75 received, but fewer sent. I have a lot of clients who call me, and at the same time I have several who will send three emails in quick succession instead of instead of combining their questions into one email. Many of my coworkers also prefer to talk in person.

    5. Jen*

      I probably receive a few hundred, 200 on a slow day, 400 on a heavier day. Respond/send probably 75-100. Am on senior management.

  58. TheLazyB (uk)*

    Fixing all my Excel probs with web searches yay! First I was trying to copy dates from one spreadsheet to another but they kept shifting by four years and a day. It was driving me mad. Turned out to be an error where excel can use two different date systems (I’ll reply with a couple of links, one why, one a fix that works!)

    Second i regularly get Excel data which has dates, most of which are fine but there’s always one set that doesn’t work – they look like date formats but won’t work as such. I fixed that one by using text to columns.

    This last one, it turns out I didn’t need to do, but still excited I did it: I had a column that was a date and time and stripped out the time data so that I could calculate the difference in days between two dates!

    Love it when you have a great week like that :D

    1. TheLazyB (uk)*

      Dates shifting: this was interesting but the fix didn’t work: http://www.accountingweb.com/technology/excel/when-excel-dates-mysteriously-shift-by-4-years

      I ended up fixing it by adding 1462 to the dates:
      http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/microsoft-office/office-solution-clearing-up-that-wacky-date-problem-when-copying-sheets/
      Incidentally if anyone understand these things – why 1462?! That’s four years and two days. Makes no sense: there are no leap years between 1 Jan 1900 and 1 Jan 1904.

      For the dates that aren’t dates: http://superuser.com/questions/817110/unable-to-get-excel-to-recognise-date-in-column

      To strip the time stamp from the date, the first answer heredidnt work but the second did:
      http://www.excelforum.com/excel-general/700699-remove-time-on-date-time-stamp.html

      And just to top it all off my vlookups worked. It was a bloody great week :D

      1. Evan Þ*

        “Makes no sense: there are no leap years between 1 Jan 1900 and 1 Jan 1904.”

        In the original version of Excel, there was! It was programmed with the simple Julian Calendar version of the leap year rules, and then every subsequent version needed to be backwards-compatible with it. So, Excel’s “1 January 1900” is actually 31 December 1899.

        Yes, it’s annoying.

        1. TheLazyB (uk)*

          Thank you! I feel better for knowing this. Annoying, but great for small talk with fellow excel nerds :)

  59. SL #2*

    I’m getting eyestrain when I’m at work. Only at work, might I add. The symptoms start about an hour into the day and continue on (no headaches, just dry eyes and trouble focusing my vision). I already use f.lux for controlling my monitor’s light and color, but part of me thinks that it’s just the office lights being SO MUCH BRIGHTER than the screen (especially because I have no symptoms at home when I’m using my laptop). And I’m definitely taking any chances I get to not be in front of the computer so much Any other tips for alleviating the symptoms?

    1. Meg Murry*

      Are you in a private/semi-private office where you could turn off the overhead lights and put in desk lamps and maybe a torch-style light or two?

        1. Schnapps*

          Are they flourescent lights? Get them to remove one of the tubes.

          After I had laser surgery, I had them temporarily remove the tubes from the light right above my desk and it really helped.

          1. SL #2*

            Yes, fluorescent lights. One of the tubes actually died about a month ago and they recently replaced it… but my eyestrain problem was happening even with the blown tube. Maybe you’re right about getting all of them taken out…

            1. Natalie*

              There are also filters and gels that can be installed over the fixtures to mute the light or change the quality of it somehow. Ask your maintenance people.

    2. Headachey*

      Do you have an overhead air vent blowing on you? I’ve been having trouble with my eyes, too – red, dry, itchy, trouble focusing – and realized that the vent is essentially blowing very dry winter air right in my face. I’m going to pick up an air vent deflector from Home Despot to see if that helps.

      1. SL #2*

        No overhead vents! My coworker who does have an overhead vent constantly complains about it being cold, but I never feel the drastic temperature shifts because it takes a while to get to me in the first place. I didn’t know air vent deflectors existed, though!

    3. Lily in NYC*

      I do what Meg suggested. I still have some eye problems but it helps immensely to have fewer florescents over my head. Also, it couldn’t hurt to make an appointment with an eye doctor – digital eye strain can lead to dry eye that no over the counter eye-drops can help. I have an appointment next week for this exact reason! But for now, make sure you look around at other things every 20 minutes and don’t just stare at your screen for long periods of time.

      1. SL #2*

        I can’t control the lights because I’m in a cubicle :( and it’s funny because now that I think about it, my eyestrain stopped at home after we removed the overhead fluorescent light (we only had 1) in the living room. But you’ve got a point about the optometrist; it’s been about 2 years since I’ve been (no insurance last year) and I’m pretty sure if nothing else, my contacts prescription is getting a bit out of date and my glasses prescription definitely is.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I’d suspect your prescription first if you haven’t been in that long. Go get your eyes checked, and then if the problem persists, maybe you can approach your job about the light thing.

          I have a light right over my cube and I hate it. But my contacts were messed up–I had one focused for far away and one for up close, and they didn’t quite meet in the middle when I focused close-up. I told my doc about it recently and he changed my prescription to accommodate, since I spend most of my waking hours on the computer. It helped immensely.

        3. Agile Phalanges*

          Definitely get your eyes checked, but since it sounds like you can’t change the lighting as it would affect more people than just you, can you at least keep it from hitting YOUR eyes by rigging up an awning over your cube wall with posterboard, or even going the oh-so-sexy route of a visor or ballcap or something? I totally sympathize with eye issues. For me, dry air is the worst, and I live in a desert, so I seem to be in a constant state of not-happy, but when air blows on my face directly, in the car, from overhead vents, and even from my foot heater, up over my lap and into my face, it’s worse. Then add in overhead lighting, and THEN the fact that I face windows that look out to a parking lot, and the sun GLARES off the car windows (desert, remember), it’s just bad. Hope you can mitigate the factors you can control, even if you have to control them at your level rather than by dealing with the fixtures themselves…

        4. Lily in NYC*

          I’m in a cubicle as well – I’m in a very open area and the facilities manager actually gave me a hard time about it but I knew he had no power so I took them down myself. I left one light tube there and took 3 down. When he came over to yell at me the next day I told him that I had a medical reason for it (I’ve been having a difficult time since I had ocular shingles three years ago) and to feel free to complain to the higher-ups if he had a problem with it. He did nothing.

        5. Kristina L*

          If they let people wear hats at work, try wearing a hat that shades your eyes from the lights.

    4. Hlyssande*

      Fluorescent lights are the absolute worst. I don’t have problems with glare off monitors, but direct light from fluorescents can give me horrible headaches along with the same symptoms you’re having.

      One thing I do on the bad days is wear a plain visor. We have low cubes so it’s visible, but as a doctor suggested it to me they let me keep it. Basically, the idea is to block the light that directly hits your eyes. It might be worth looking into.

    5. Former Student Employee*

      If you can afford them, computer glasses. My boyfriend is a coder and has two pairs of computer glasses (they’re like sunglasses with yellow lenses). He gets a headache when he doesn’t wear them and finds them immensely helpful. I don’t know what the price ranges are — he tends to have expensive taste — but I imagine there are less-expensive options out there! Good luck!

      1. SL #2*

        Huh, I’ve never heard of that (and I worked in the tech industry for a bit too!). I’ll have to check it out!

    6. Z*

      Computer glasses! I use them almost every day and they are super helpful at preventing eye strain and headaches. I like the Gunnar ones, but there may be other brands I’m not familiar with.

    7. irritable vowel*

      Does your office or building have a maintenance person or super (or a janitor who has access to a ladder)? When I moved into a new office where the light right over my desk was way too bright, our maintenance person helped me by putting some aluminum foil over one of the fluorescent bulbs in the fixture. It’s really helped cut down on glare. (He’s also helped us in the past by rigging up diverters made of cardboard that keep the freezing cold air from the vents from blowing right on people.)

    8. 42*

      I would try getting a a small incandescent lamp anyway. I have one in my cube, along with a fluorescent light high above (we have very high ceilings, so it’s not directly over me a few feet up), and the warm glow from my lamp completely nullifies the harsh fluorescent. If you google ’18” window pane shoji lamp’ from Oriental Furniture, you can see it. It made a big difference for me, it’s worth looking in to.

    9. Nanc*

      My eye doc talked me into computer glasses a few years ago as an option to going bifocals. WOW! It makes a huge difference, no more headaches, my eyes aren’t so tired and they make me look 10 years younger (not really, but I always like the 3-reasons bit!). If you haven’t seen an eye doctor for awhile it might be worth making an appointment.

  60. Hlyssande*

    I love my supervisor, I love my supervisor, I love my supervisor. I didn’t think the previous one was bad, but omg.

    I was out for two weeks over the holidays and OF COURSE I GOT SICK while I was out. On Monday I was still absolutely miserable and she let me work from home all day instead of coming in. I felt like I could work okay (at least deal with email backup from when I was out), but there was no way I could’ve handled a day in the office. I also didn’t want to come in any possibly get anyone sick. I am so grateful that she let me do that. I honestly shouldn’t have been working at all, but it meant that I didn’t have to start off the new year burning a sick day.

    She’s so understanding about things, like my depression and thinking about getting a new job, etc. I really feel like I can trust her.

    1. Red Wheel*

      I too was out for about two weeks but got sick the day I was to report to work. I went to work as planned, miserable and sick and then took the following day off. Why? because I felt like I had to “prove” to my supervisor that I was really sick the day after a holiday and not just trying to extend my time off. So, I did start the new year by coming to work while sick AND burning a sick day. BTW, I hate my manager.

      1. Hlyssande*

        Ouch, that sucks. Sorry your manager’s a jerk and that you had to burn a day. I hope you’re feeling better now.

        That feeling of needing to prove that I was sick is why I came in on Tuesday when I really shouldn’t have. She would’ve let me work that from home too, I know. I’ve been here 10 years and I’ve never actually needed to prove anything, but I can’t shake the need to do so. For years I’d get up really early and send an email to say I couldn’t be in to make it seem like I’d been up all night because I was terrified that I’d get in trouble for not being sick enough.

        I hate this job, I hate this company…but my supervisor is fantastic and the manager above her is good. That’s part of why it’s such a comfortable rut and I’m scared to go elsewhere.

    2. KR*

      I understand where you are coming from. I was having a really hard time getting out of bed today (mostly anxiety related) and have been needing mad amounts of sleep recently meaning I’m not in the office until past 9am. My supervisor is really accommodating as long as I put in enough hours a week. So nice.

      1. Hlyssande*

        Hurray for accommodating supervisors. Seriously.

        I’ve really been struggling with sleep too, mostly related to depression. It sucks walnuts.

  61. Former Diet Coke Addict*

    Today my boss called me by the wrong name. Twice. Two different names. In the same conversation. Neither was close to my own. I’ve worked here over two years. How demoralizing. Happy Friday to all!

    1. Lily in NYC*

      That sucks. My mom called me her dog’s name when I was home for Xmas! And my worst boss ever called me Eve for his first three months at work – I have no idea why he kept calling me that. I stopped correcting him after a month.

    4. Bangs not Fringe*

      I definitely think my boss does this on purpose sometimes.. But I honestly call people the wrong names sometimes. Sometimes our train of though can derail! Maybe don’t take it personally?

  62. Master Bean Counter*

    This week I had something very bizarre happen. Well maybe not that bizarre. The owner came into my shared office with a furniture guy and started taking measurements. My hopes of getting a desk that is actually bug enough to do my work on were quickly dashed as they were discussing adding a third work station in this office. Okay… They leave before I can question or say anything. Later I ask my office-mate about this. Not only are they adding a third person in this office, but they’ve already hired the person and they start on Monday. And this is how I found out about it.

    In other news I got contacted by a recruiter for what looks like a very nice position. So I prepped my resume and wrote, and I quote, “An awesome cover letter.” Now the waiting game begins. As much as I want this position I’m trying to remind myself I might have better odds at winning the lottery.

    1. AnonForThis*

      I had something similar happen with a new co-worker – I went on holiday for two weeks, and came back to find out that a new person had been hired and it was their first day the day I got back! This was a team of 5, and she ended up sitting directly across from me, so all day I would confuse myself trying to remember why she was there.

    2. Rebecca in Dallas*

      LOL this has totally happened at my office. We usually find out when an IT person shows up with a computer to set up.

      1. KR*

        Lucky for your IT department! Half the time we just get an email after the person has been hired and is already working and we have to go through the whole thing with what access they will need and to where and all that. All we want is an email from HR whenever they hire someone!

    3. Master Bean Counter*

      Woohoo! The recruiter called me back. I’m going to have an interview next week and she’s going to give me prep questions. Definitely one of the better recruiters I’ve worked with.
      And I got my first private client this week. Things are definitely looking up!

  63. Semi-nonymous*

    So this is work related, but running your own business work related, so I’ll probably post more about the personal aspects on Sunday.

    Has anyone here ever declared your own business (LLC) bankrupt? Obviously, I know step one is to talk to a bankrupcy lawyer rahter than just people on the internet, and that’s in the works. I’m just looking for some general information about lessons learned/what you would have done differently/what surprised you or even just “yup, been there, it sucks” commiseration.

    For background, my husband and father-in-law run a contracting business. My FIL ran it as a side business for quite a while, and then he and my husband left their regular jobs, formed an LLC and starting running this business full time. Both of their names are on the LLC paperwork as 50% owners.

    My FIL is now retirement age and drawing Social Security, and has had a series of health issues that have made it difficult for him to work steadily for quite a while now – it’s been a few years since he was physically able to work a full 40 hour week, and some weeks he couldn’t work at all, while others he was only able to work for a few hours here or there. FIL keeps saying he’ll be good to go in a few weeks after [latest issue] is dealt with, but the rest of us (including MIL) have acknowledged that there will pretty much always be something either keeping him from working or looming just around the corner. My husband has been holding it together as long as he could, but this is the kind of work that really needs 2 people – but there isn’t enough work for him to hire and train another employee.

    Long story short, the business is somewhere between $30,000 and $60,000 in debt, with some of that being very high interest credit card debt, and the business also has a lot of fixed monthly expenses (expensive umbrella insurance policy, phone bill, etc) that basically means that it’s time to throw in the towel. Luckily, my in-laws came into some money that allowed them to pay off their house, etc, so my FIL no longer working will basically just affect their vacation/fun money budget, not their food/roof over their head budget. This also means that my husband has to find a “real” job while wrapping all this up, so that will be interesting as well.

    Anyone got any “been there, do this and don’t do that” advice?

  64. Jessica Jones*

    Alison, feel free to delete if this is better in the weekend open thread.

    Thoughts on job hunting out of state when you’re also trying to conceive? My husband and I are ready to start our family, and we also want to relocate to another state. I was actively job hunting and had some interviews but nothing that felt like a great fit. My company does provide 14 weeks of maternity leave which are covered under short term disability (I’m assuming I’d get 60% of my pay during my leave). I’m enjoying what I’m doing at work this very moment, but my company has gone through significant restructuring this year, and just this week 2 high level executives were fired. My dept is in a state of flux and it’s possible that my job will change again this year.

    Our long-term plan is to be in another state and we can’t move until at least one of us has a job. If I get a new position but I’m also pregnant, or get pregnant immediately after starting, I’m not guaranteed maternity leave. I’m wondering if I should just stay put where I’m at and try to ride out the craziness in the office, and wait to job hunt until after I have a baby. Thoughts?

    1. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      I wouldn’t base anything on whether you might be pregnant or not. It may take you a while to conceive, and I’d only stay if you were willing to put up with any craziness for what may end up being a longer duration.

    2. anon for this*

      What I have learned through 3.5 years of trying to conceive is, you have to just go ahead and live your life. If you don’t look for a new job, or don’t move to a new state, or don’t take that vacation you’ve been planning, etc., because you’re expecting to get pregnant or have a new baby around that time, you’re letting something that isn’t entirely under your control determine how you live. And let me tell you, that sucks–when things aren’t going as you’d hoped AND you don’t feel like you’re able to move forward in other areas of your life because everything’s on hold. If you need to move on professionally or geographically, don’t put a “maybe” ahead of those needs. Good luck to you in all your endeavors!

  65. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    What should I consider and what should I ask about when looking at a job that is listed as 6-month temp with the possibility of going permanent?

    I’m in the job market, and I just heard from a recruiter who is looking to hire for a job that sounds like it’s right up my alley, but the position is as I listed above, and I currently have a permanent job (though with crap management that I want to get away from).

    Normally I’d automatically discard it because going from permanent to temp doesn’t sound like a good idea, but my wife pointed out that a lot of jobs, especially on the earlier rungs of the career ladder (I’ve been working full-time for about 6 years) are doing this now, and just outright avoiding anything advertising temp-to-perm is really going to hinder my job possibilities. Is she right about this?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Yes, your wife may be right. (I am in a semi-creative position, started as a contractor and have seen a lot of these ads from recruiters.)

      That said, ask a lot of questions — in some cases the temp to perm thing is because they want that window to easily get rid of someone if they don’t work out, but they do need a permanent person in that position. In other cases it’s to see if or where you best fit in the company before they hire you permanently (but not necessarily in the exact same position).

      I would say consider temp to perm – be wary, sure, ask a lot of questions (of the recruiter) about how quickly and often they hire temps, but consider them.

  66. I am Dt Lennie Briscoe's deadpan humor*

    If I hand in my notice on Tuesday 12th, that means my 2 weeks is up on the 26th, right? Or is the 29th….?

    2. F.*

      If you gave it to me, I would expect your last day to be the 26th, two weeks from the date you are giving notice.

    3. The IT Manager*

      I think 2 weeks notice is literally means two work weeks so Tuesday until another Tuesday is what I expect as the bare minimum. You could choose to give more notice if you wanted to.

    4. Sara*

      I say the 26th, although my boyfriend’s last company insisted that “2 weeks’ notice” = 14 business days. (They also thought the idea of offering benefits to employees was overly generous and looked the other way when 2 different employees were attacked by 2 different dogs in the office, though…so maybe don’t take their advice.)

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I would count 1o working days. That means Tuesday the 26th if you ordinarily work M-F. Just to be abundantly clear, I would say, “My last day will be Tues, Jan 26th.” That way no one is left to guess what you mean.

  67. JJ*

    Related to one of the featured AAM posts this week, I’d like to hear from people who have dealt with a manager that can’t ever seem to focus enough to answer simply questions. Are there “managing up” strategies you have used that helped improve the situation, even somewhat? I’m nearing the end of my rope here. To give an example of a recent exchange:

    Me: I’m trying to schedule dates for X but would like to know if our on-site visits are going to conflict with these. Here are the dates I’ve proposed. Are these dates fine, or do I need to change them? (Note: My manager is the only person who fully knows the dates for these visits and has not disclosed all of them to us.)
    Manager: Ooh, I like the layout of this calendar! Very nice! This reminds me, I have 8 very important things I need to discuss with you right now…. *goes through 8 things as quickly as possible, including off-topic tangents, before almost literally running out my office*

    This…happened yesterday afternoon. Ugh.

    1. Argh!*

      My suggestion is to simplify: What is the schedule for the on-site visits?

      The clutter in the answer suggests you & your boss don’t meet often enough. You could suggest a meeting to discuss the schedule. Now that the other 8 things have been discussed, the special-topic meeting shouldn’t get de-railed.

      You have my sympathy. I have to manage-up for different reasons and it’s a scary proposition. I need to get what I need without criticizing my boss’s style or making her angry. Even though she *should* be able to handle an employee asking for a different response that doesn’t mean she can. I don’t want to find out the hard way.

      1. JJ*

        Yeah, I do like to give context for my questions (mainly to refresh busy people’s memories first), but I think you’re right in that it may be overkill for some attention spans. I’ll try simplifying and see if things get better.

        I would be incredibly anxious if my manager was quick to think that I was criticizing her or became easily angered. That sucks. I feel for you. On the one hand, I’m wondering if she’s like this regardless of how the question is posed (e.g., in person versus via email; I know email doesn’t prevent all aggression, but for some people it gives them an opportunity to compose themselves first rather than feeling pressured to respond immediately and, apparently, angrily). On the other hand, even if you are afforded some “protections” by choosing the right medium, that’s just a band-aid and some of your requests will be time-sensitive I’m sure. I wonder why she interprets your requests as critical….

        1. Dawn*

          “Me: I’m trying to schedule dates for X but would like to know if our on-site visits are going to conflict with these. Here are the dates I’ve proposed. Are these dates fine, or do I need to change them? ”

          1) Send it to her in an email as well as ask in person.
          2) Make all interactions with her involving questions be about you making statements instead: “Boss, I am going to schedule these dates for X. Let me know if there’s a conflict”. Don’t ask permission, just go ahead and do things and wait for her to tell you not to (within reason, of course). Feel free to keep following up as needed if there’s things you’re pretty sure she needs to pay attention to but hasn’t.
          3) Bullet points are your friend. Make everything as short and to the point as you can, and leave out any superfluous writing in your emails. She’s got a short attention span so you have to say what you need to say as fast as you can!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Try to work things around so you can get to a place where you can say, “Sure I will look at that with you, then I really need you to review this X with me.”

      Try to think of her as a nervous person. So first reassure her, “yes, I will help with your concern.” Then restate your request.

      1. JJ*

        Ha, I like the idea of thinking of her as a nervous person! She’s definitely a can’t-focus one-on-one person. It’s funny; she’s confided in me before about her frustrations with how her own supervisor forbids her from looking at her smart phone, laptop, etc., during meetings…and I’m sitting there thinking, “Uh, you are ALWAYS distracted by your smartphone, lady. Take a hint from all of us! Please!” If I was in any kind of equal or superior standing to her I would just be blunt with her about it, but unfortunately I don’t think there’s a good way for me to help her out as one of her subordinates…

  68. Daenerys T*

    In a fit of career related anxiety, I stayed up late one night last week and took the Foreign Service Officer practice exam on the Department of State website.

    My score said there was a 95% chance I would pass the “real” test (70% on the general knowledge section, 99% on the English language section).

    Has anyone taken the FSO exam? Is the practice test actually a good indicator of how I would score?

    1. Jberry*

      I’ve taken the exam. The questions on the practice exam are very similar to the type of questions asked on the actual exam. I didn’t find the test all that difficult, but I have a social science and arts background and lived overseas for a number of years. Still, I’m not the strongest writer, at least not for the type of essays the test requires, and though I’ve always passed the writing portion, I’ve had to re-work how I think to be able to do so.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      Hi, it’s the oral assessment that truly weeds people out, not the written exam. And please be aware it takes 6 months to a year (I’ve even seen a 2-year wait) to get the results of the orals back. And many people make it through and then fail the health or security checks. I went to a university that is well-known for churning out diplomats and my BIL is a professor in their foreign service school and I have tons of friends who took the exam. I do have one friend who took the test on a whim (he was a history major) and passed the entire shebang and he was not expecting to pass the orals at all. So I say go for it! My friends who are now diplomats are all really happy with their careers, except for one dude who got posted to the Ivory Coast.

    3. LabMonkey*

      I’ve taken it a few times, and your score matters, but less than you’d think/hope. I consistently scored great, but didn’t have a lot of experience to back it up, and couldn’t get to the group interview. Same with everyone I know. It is very difficult, even with great exam results.

  69. Should I Stay or Should I go*

    Happy Friday! I apologize in advance for the length, I just want to provide enough background information.

    I’ve been an admin at my company for 10 months. I took on the position to get a better idea of what career path I wanted to take. Since I started, I’ve determined I’m interested in project management and marketing.

    During my interview, it seemed clear that I’d have support if I wanted to internally apply for other jobs. A marketing position has come up, but now I’m not sure I’d have the support if I wanted to apply.

    I work with 3 other other admins, two of them (including my boss) are executive admins, and my direct coworker and I are assistants. Because of this, I spend 95% of the time covering the front desk. I’m fine with this arrangement, but coverage is basically impossible if my coworker and myself need to be out at the same time since the executive admins have refused to cover. While this is a rare occurrence, it was problematic last week when we were both really sick.

    I’m worried that if I apply for an internal position that it would be difficult to interview without my boss or my coworker knowing about it, since if it’s during work hours, I’d need to be away from the front desk.

    Even if I managed to hide it and got the position, I feel like it would cause a lot of tension between my boss and I, which is an issue since we are both on the social committee together.

    Aside from the issues always having to cover the front brings, I’m happy in my role for the time being. I don’t have plans to apply externally, as I am hoping to grow within my company.

    This leaves me with 3 questions:
    1. Is 10 months too early to apply for internal opportunities?
    2. Am I better off not telling my boss if I do decide to apply?
    3. Is it considered burning a bridge if I don’t tell her?

    Thanks!!
    **Sorry if this seems scatterbrained, it’s hard to determine if I’ve provided enough information**

    1. JJ*

      1. If being an admin is not what you’d like to do, then no, that’s not too early. You weren’t sure before and now you are.
      2. Is it possible for you to request time off around the time period when a hypothetical interview would occur? Your boss may find out anyway if the marketing people want to use her as a final reference prior to extending an offer, so I think that as long as you don’t interview on company time and gave plenty of notice for your admin team to figure something out, that shouldn’t be a problem. Yes, not being at work may have created problems recently, but that’s just what happens when people inevitable get sick around the same time.
      3. People leave jobs every day. It is a very normal thing and, assuming that adequate notice was given and efforts were taken to make the transition go as smoothly as possible, there is no reasonable justification for a boss becoming angry over this. In fact, if your boss ends up being like that, it is better for you to find out and get out now before you dedicate additional time, resources, and energy to that person. Remember that quitting is normal and being that possessive of employees is really *not* normal.

    2. F.*

      1. Unless you have prior work experience or a recent degree in PM or marketing, it is too soon. It is a large step from front desk admin to those positions. Many large companies have a minimum time-in-position restriction on applying for internal promotions/transfers, so check your company’s policies.
      2. Tell your boss if you do decide to apply. First of all, it is the courteous thing to do. Secondly, the hiring manager is absolutely going to talk to your current boss anyway. Don’t blindside them with this.
      3. I wouldn’t call it burning a bridge, but it sure won’t help your relationship with the boss.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I wanted to chime in on your response to #1, since I meant to expand on mine more before hitting submit.

        I tend to agree with you on the PM work. You probably need to be doing some of the work before you’re managing it and front desk doesn’t really expose you enough.

        On marketing, I agree with the qualifier that it depends on your degree & the position. I’d almost say any related degree + the 10 months of experience should be adequate to apply. (Not that the OP will get it). Our entry level marketing folks have the following backgrounds: 1. a degree in mar/com, 2. a degree in engineering + 1 year work, 3. a policy degree + intern experience in other industries. We just got a new marketing admin who will do part-time admin and part-time marketing, and her experience is in admin/no degree/no marketing experience. There can be a huge range in qualifications for marketing, and I really do think your best bet is getting support from your current boss.

        We’ve had many, many admins move to non-admin roles, but they do that by making it part of their development goals and having their manager’s support.

        1. Should I Stay or Should I go*

          Thanks for the feedback so far.

          As for the PM track, I definitely agree that it’d be a long path to get there, which is fine and understandable. I think that’s part of the reason this marketing position (which is entry level) seems so interesting to me. I graduated 2 years ago with a degree in Business Administration and a concentration in marketing. I also had a year-long marketing internship in college. I know the person I’d be working alongside within the department, so I’m going to ask her what the expected qualifications for the position are.

          F. – you make a great point about the minimum requirement before an internal transfer, so I’ll definitely look into that.

          JJ – Because of the coverage issue, it’s more difficult to take time off to do the interviews. If anything, I have some time off scheduled next month that I might be able to use.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            10 months is too soon. I hire admins and it drives me nuts when they start angling for new positions after a few months. If we needed a PM, we’d hire a PM. We need admins who will stick to their positions for two years. And your boss will almost definitely find out. I have been here 12 years and have only seen 3 admins get promoted to PM positions (but ours are very specialized and tend to need advanced degrees). However, I’ve seen more admins get promoted to marketing or HR roles. But never in 10 months.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      1. No
      2. Do not hide this. Enlist your boss as an ally in getting the new position, if possible.
      3. Hmm. Possibly. I have been with my company 10+ years and moved four times to entirely different functions. Time 1 and 2 were fiascoes for various reasons (related to opps outside and trying to get similar opps inside instead). Time 3, I talked to the hiring manager, and the HM told my manager, even without me applying. Time 4, I talked to my manager before I applied, and he was very supportive and willing to put in a good word or whatever was needed for me to get the new position. In hindsight, times 1-3 should have burned bridges because of how it all happened. I would never, ever do an internal transfer that way again.

    4. Doriana Gray*

      1) 10 months would be way too early at my company – we have 12 months as the standard time when you can begin applying for internal opportunities.
      2) You should talk to your manager about it. At my company, you have no choice but to tell your manager you’re applying for a new position because HR sends the manager an email where the manager has to basically sign off on the whole thing.
      3) If your company doesn’t require notifying your manager upfront, and you don’t say anything and just apply, if you end up getting the job, yeah, you’re manager’s going to be pissed. If you’re manager’s a lunatic, I could see why you would hesitate to say anything; however, if she’s not, be honest. If things don’t work out with the internal transfer and you didn’t say anything about wanting to leave prior to applying for the new gig, your manager may consciously or subconsciously start punishing you for keeping her out of the loop going forward. You don’t want to make things awkward for yourself in your current role.

      1. Should I Stay or Should I go*

        Thanks for your feedback!

        I’m definitely going to find out what the time period for applying for internal opportunities is.

        My manager is definitely quirky, but not a lunatic. That’s a good point about the conscious or subconscious punishments, though. If the transfer doesn’t work out, I’d definitely want to stay in this role and wouldn’t want it to be awkward.

  70. Biff Welly*

    I submitted a resume for a position – the process was online and did not have anyway to leave a cover letter, was basically just submit resume and check a few boxes. I’m interested in the position and want to try and reach out to the recruiter – but don’t want to seem to LinkedIn stalker. Any recommendations on the best way?

    My skills are relevant to the job, except my recent experience is not in the industry (alhough I have extensive experience in the relevant industry that I do not currently include on my resume.)

  71. Anon-TottalyNotYourUnfriendlyPhlebotomistAtAll*

    Vent- work is crazy stressful right now, we’re so understaffed I called out sick yesterday and feel so guilty but I shouldn’t because it’s not my fault that we don’t have adequate staff for coverage.

    Patients are being so rude today, now twice I have been yelled at. once because someone’s insurance doesn’t participate and the other because they forgot their blood work order at home and I couldn’t draw the test. (their Drs office isn’t open Friday, I couldn’t get a fax)

    I’m trying to get my photography business up and running but that’s unbelievably frustrating. I’m so burnt out, my doctor has added two additional anxiety prescriptions but i’m still struggling.

    1. Soupspoon McGee*

      That sounds so frustrating! I work as a CNA, and I get the brunt of people’s anger sometimes. To them, I’m the face of Everything They Hate About Being Sick. One lady routinely yells at me because she’s got dietary restrictions, and I’m the person who has to tell her no, she can’t have whatever she wants.

  72. Tagg*

    I’m in the process of looking at moving into a different job with my company (a large healthcare provider). Unfortunately, the electronic application system our company uses has no spot for a cover letter. Any suggestions on how to handle that? (It also doesn’t have a spot for references, weirdly, so I tacked them onto the end of my resume).

    1. coffee or tea*

      In those situations I’ve put my cover letter and resume in one document and submitted it that way. Or, if they have a box for “additional relevant information” (or something similar to that) I’ve copied and pasted my cover letter there as well. Best of luck!

      1. Tagg*

        Thanks! I spotted an opening today that I think I’d be a great fit for (and it would be a significant pay boost to boot!) Fingers crossed!

  73. Natalie*

    OMG you guys, I’m starting the new year off right. I aced my last accounting class despite being so swamped at work that I had to miss all the classes after Thanksgiving, I crushed my year end close, and I’ve been hearing about a ton of job openings from a new recruiter. But most importantly, our company is reorganizing again and I will no longer be working with the Remote Office of Passive Aggressive Jerks. They are going to train their admin to be their part time bookkeeper and I will only handle my old clients plus 3 new big clients. And this time it will actually happen on a definitive timetable, as my Ur Boss understands we have to hand off before the new clients come on line in February. And we are adding staff so my direct manager will no longer be the same manager of ROPAJ, who is THE WORST at managing.

    [Still looking for a new job, as I definitely learned first hand that I don’t want to be job searching *after* I’m so burned out that walking out seemed like a viable option. It’s hard to interview well in that situation.]

    1. some1*

      It’s hard to interview well and makes it more likely to accept a job that isn’t a great fit just to GTFO

  74. Jillociraptor*

    Any advice for supporting a manager with a new baby? My boss has a 6 month old, and he’s hitting one of those “sleep is for pansies” stages of babyhood. She’s powering through like a champ, but there are moments when she looks like the walking dead. I manage her calendar so we’re already talking about how to structure her time so that she gets enough breaks, but I’d love any suggestions of other things that might be helpful for her (even things that are helpful to say/not say).

    1. Adam V*

      Stay away from any statements about how she looks, I’d say – you don’t have to tell her she looks short on sleep!

      I wonder about suggesting increased break times for her? Just a chance for her to turn off her phone, ignore her email, sit back with a nice cup of coffee or tea and just relax? I know when I get home to my 8-month-old, all my wife really wants is for me to take him and for her to be able to go into the bedroom and shut the door on me, the baby, and the cats, and just sit in the quiet for a while.

  75. Ruth (UK)*

    Soo I’m going through some continuous thought process about the idea of changing careers rather drastically. (I realise when I say ‘changing’ it sounds like I actually have a career when in fact I actually just have an admin job but I can’t think of a better phrase).

    Anyway, I seriously am considering applying to train as a paramedic. I wonder if anyone in that or a similar job has any advice for me (I also realise that some things might be different between uk/america/other countries, especially when it comes to medical related stuff cause of the NHS here).

    Anyway, it’s not quite as random as it sounds and also I’m not quite as ill-informed about the job as I might otherwise be… I currently work in a hospital in an administrative role so while I don’t practically do anything medical or have experience of that type, I have reasonable insight into the types of injuries people manage to do / get done to themselves… and enough to know I don’t get disturbed by gore / vomit / bodily fluids / etc. My housemate (a nurse) has also helped me talk through some stuff.

    Actually a thing that most worries me is driving… I’d need to get qualified to drive a heavy / emergency vehicle. Also, the application requires I have a full driving license and 2 years’ driving experience which I do – technically. I passed my test back in 2008 but have never owned a car. I’ve driven on one-off occasions approx once every 18 months or so, since I passed my test, and took some refresher lessons last year. So while I meet the requirement on paper, I am not a confident driver.

    I’m also considering spending a year (or more) volunteering with something like St John ambulance (a first aid charity) to get some experience in administering first aid to give me a better idea if this is a good career path for me. . .

    1. Elizabeth West*

      From what I’m understanding of the state of paramedic services in UK currently (especially in London), they really need people. I like the idea of volunteering first. It’s a good way to see what it’s like in the trenches, so to speak. It will also give you time to get more confident driving–is there a way to take a commercial vehicle course or get some practice with the charity organization?

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        I’m thinking about joining one of those rental car club things so I can try and use it for some stuff where I currently would get a lift or do public transport…

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Yikes! Is the driving what it takes just to get the job, so you can be trained to drive the ambulance later, or could you start driving immediately?

      If it’s the latter, the whole idea scares me. I have 24 years of continuous daily driving experience and wouldn’t want to be driving an emergency vehicle against the traffic lights at a high rate of speed in slow traffic. If it’s the former, and you would go through a few years of only riding along on the vehicle (and doing other EMT things) and would have additional driving training, then maybe it’s not so bad. I’d assume you’ll get the training you need through the job, and I wouldn’t be too concerned that you’re only barely meeting the entry threshold.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        yeah, you also would be trained to drive a vehicle of that weight category, and to drive an emergency vehicle. They wouldn’t just say “oh cool, get in and drive :D”

    3. FatBigot*

      Can I suggest the TraumaQueen blog? Written by Kal in Scotland, it is a fascinating read detailing his journey from being a clerk in the Scottish Patent Office, and volunteering at first aid events, to becoming a paramedic & ambulance driver. Kal took down most of the posts a couple of years back, and my web advisor won’t let me go back there, stating it is an “Attack Site” but there are many pages archived at the wayback machine at http://archive.org/web/ and enter http://www.traumaqueen.net into the search box. Very many anecdotes about real life as an emergency responder. A single example is here: http://www.studentparamedic.org.au/index.php/blog-roll/457-trauma-queen

    4. Jez*

      If I can be completely honest, I would be really uncomfortable if I knew that the person driving my / my loved one’s ambulance had only intermittent experience driving a car at all, let alone driving a heavy vehicle.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        that wouldn’t happen. You (general you) would also need to pass an additional test for driving a vehicle of that weight category and for driving an emergency vehicle. It’s just that it says at the time of application you should have been driving for 2 years. But by the time I get that far I should have close to that experience if I sort out starting to drive now. It’s just if it ends up being like 1 year and a half or something, on paper I still have over 2 years since I passed my test 8 years ago…

    5. it happens*

      Don’t know if this will help you or not, but I heard an interview on fresh air Tuesday (Jan 5) with Kevin Hazzard, who wrote a book called A Thousand Naked Strangers about his ten years as a paramedic. He worked in Atlanta, which is not the UK, but the first story he told was of being on the first day of his first ambulance job he was having coffee and then suddenly handed the keys to drive to an emergency.
      Good luck with the career change.
      (You can listen to the Fresh Air interview online – won’t post link to avoid moderation…)

  76. Chameleon*

    I am finishing up my PhD (molecular biology) and am looking around for teaching jobs in community colleges. Most of the online systems say to upload either a CV or a resume. Which should I submit?

    Obviously, my CV has more detail and can talk in more detail about my accomplishments. But I’m afraid that submitting a 4 page CV is going to be harder to wade through than a 2-page resume (I don’t see how I can possibly put education, research experience, and teaching experience on one page…)

    Anyone in this field have opinions and/or pointers?

    1. overeducated and underemployed*

      I have been told that if you’re looking for a faculty job, you should always upload a CV, but make sure to front load your teaching experience and make it the most visible thing on the CV for community college jobs. If you know anyone working in such a department, or anyone comments here, I’d even ask whether you should consider highlighting departmental/professional service before research experience.

      1. Chameleon*

        Thanks. I definitely have my teaching experience up front. Sadly, there isn’t a whole lot of it, as my PI was VERY resistant to my spending any time outside of lab. I don’t think he quite gets the concept that someone might want a PhD but not go into research. I know that’s going to be a big handicap to me going forward. :(

        1. blackcat*

          A 4 page CV isn’t really that long.

          Education goes first, and is short (BA/S, institution, year; MA/S, institution, year; PhD institution, thesis title, advisor name, estimated defense date).

          Then, put your teaching experience (so it starts on page 1). Make 2 versions.
          1) For jobs with a slot for a separate teaching statement and/or portfolio, this can be shorter. List teaching activities (including TA-ing/tutoring), and responsibilities.
          2) For jobs without such a slot, add a lot more detail. If you have student evals, include summaries or results (eg, “Overall rating 4.4/5 versus department average of 3.8/5”). Include 2-3 sentence course description if you actually taught the course. Note anything innovative that you did in any teaching-related job. Note any teaching activities that went beyond assigned responsibilities (Ever organize a TA discussion-lunch? Mention it). Don’t worry if this makes your CV longer–no one will really read past this section anyways, so it’s ok if it fills the 2nd page of your CV.

          Then you can have other employment (including RA-ships).

          I’d follow that up with other service/memberships (particularly if you belong to an org with a teaching focus). End with publications. No one will read about the pubs. That’s fine.

          One thing to address in your cover letter is if you can teach intro chem (or organic chem). Some CCs are small enough to have “Science” departments, so showing a willingness/ability to teach in multiple fields is good.

    3. AnonInSC*

      CV for sure for an academic position.

      You may want to check out Confessions of a Community Collage Dean (http://suburbdad.blogspot.com/). He’s talked about the difference in applying for positions at community colleges and about what they look for in hiring. It may be helpful to you.

    4. Ultraviolet*

      I’m about to link to an article from Chronicle of Higher Ed on a very similar question. The author (a community college professor who writes a lot about that line of work) basically advises everyone to submit a CV rather than resume–even if the posting actually asks for a resume. His reasoning is that the word “resume” was almost certainly added to the posting/application by a centralized HR department rather than by the faculty reviewing the applications, and the faculty would rather see a CV.

      I don’t have enough CC background to judge how sound that advice is. I didn’t see any comments to the article that disagreed though.

      At the end there’s a link to another article on making your CV “community-college friendly.”

    5. Anxa*

      Do you have 18 credits in chemistry? 18 credits in anatomy and phys?

      Check individual colleges’ requirements on how many credits you need in each discipline, and then make it clear that you can teach those classes as well, if it’s applicable. A lot of community colleges science departments are dominated by courses required for health sciences and other more vocational classes.

    6. Soupspoon McGee*

      Former CC instructor here: Get some teaching experience by adjuncting. Tutor. Try to get on committees that focus on textbook selection and curriculum development. Be familiar with the kinds of students your regional community colleges serve, the issues they face, and the best practices for teaching them (do they tend to be urban or rural? veterans? straight out of high school or changing careers after layoffs?). Participate on a project that focuses on helping low-income, underserved students prepare for and succeed in the sciences–and put that on your CV. Your institution may have a federally funded program like Student Support Services or Upward Bound that could use tutors and volunteers.

      And yes, submit a CV, not a resume.

  77. Shan*

    Just wanted to say THANK YOU SO MUCH Alison and AAM readers! Your advice and comments have helped me take the high road when dealing with a stressful situation at work where I kinda got thrown under the bus, make plans to job search, land and nail an interview for the perfect job in the industry I’ve dreamed of working in, and GET the job and successfully negotiate salary and benefits (and get exactly what I asked for). And you also helped me navigate giving notice, because my boss didn’t handle my previous coworker’s departure very well…mine went much better. I’m so excited to be making the first job change of my career and couldn’t have done it without ya’ll. My health, wealth and happiness are going to improve a ton.

    It’s my last week at my current job. Right now, I’m listening to my coworkers interview my replacement across the hall and I’m a little annoyed they didn’t ask me to sit in on it. Plus, it doesn’t sound remotely like my interview for this company. Listening to this one and comparing it to mine, I would not have guessed she was interviewing for the same job at all. My boss is asking for skills that the organization didn’t even have until I came along and brought them…but that’s kinda the reason I’m leaving, I just felt undervalued. Whatever, I’m ready to get outta here :)

    1. Argh!*

      Congratulations! Don’t take it personally that you’re not involved. Most jobs don’t interview until the employee is gone, and if they don’t like the ones they’ve met so far you wouldn’t be able to continue with interviews.

      It’s not unusual for a job description to be tweeked between employees. Times change and the boss may want to change the job in ways they couldn’t do while you were working in it. Don’t take it personally.

      1. Doriana Gray*

        Agree with all of this, but especially the congrats! All of these new job success stories are making me so excited for my new job start date (come on January 18!).

          1. Doriana Gray*

            Cool! You’ll have to post in that week’s open thread to let us know how your first week went.

      2. Shan*

        Thank you! I guess I overreacted in my comment because it really doesn’t concern me much and I’m not taking it personally at all :) When I was typing, I didn’t think annoyed was the right word, but couldn’t find a way to describe what I’m feeling. Maybe confused or curious? They have always had people leaving the company interview their replacements, so I guess I was wondering why that changed, but I’m not offended.

        And I agree that job descriptions change, and honestly I think the skills they’re asking for now is exactly what the organization needs to grow! But I think they’re offering WAY too little salary for what they’re asking for. I was getting paid 30% less than my peers at other organizations, and now they’re asking for more skills from the next employee, but are planning to pay them even less than me. It just makes me sad they value certain skills but don’t show it or pay appropriately. That’s none of my business now though :)

  78. AnotherAlison*

    I don’t look at my pay stub very often, but I was looking at my last 2015 check this morning. This is always kind of a mind-boggling exercise (the amount of my pay that I never see + the employer benefit cost).

    This led me to a question. . .if anyone is self-insured, what does it cost on the market, particularly if your income is such that you pay full price? According to my stub, the employer portion of our family plan (medical, dental and vision) is about $15,000 per year. If you count my portion, total health insurance plan costs $17,000/year, plus the $3500 in out-of-pocket costs I paid. I know health care costs aren’t a new topic, but dang, $20,500 for 4 healthy people is so much money.

    I’m mostly just curious, but my husband is self-employed and I would hate to be paying this much for a plan myself.

    1. overeducated and underemployed*

      Our marketplace medical premiums for a family of 3 (no dental or vision) are set to be about $10,800 per year for 2016.

    2. MaryMary*

      You can go out to the ACA marketplace and look at plans and rates without purchasing them. Start at healthcare.gov, it’ll reroute you if your state runs its own marketplace. You should only have to give high level information, like your zip code, gender, and age.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Thanks, I tested it out, and it does indeed look like it would cost about what my company pays to have a plan comparable to what I have now. We could pay less than half that and get coverage, so that’s good to know.

    3. MsChandandlerBong*

      My marketplace plan (two adults, both in our mid-to-late thirties) costs $331 per month, so it’s about $4,000 per year.

    4. Anxa*

      I live in an unhealthy county in the south. I’m 29 and single.

      The cheapest (low premium, high deductible) plan I can buy is $426 with a 6k deductible and qualifies as a silver plan.

    5. asteramella*

      The ACA instituted an employer tax on high-cost health plans that is commonly referred to as the “Cadillac Tax.” It was supposed to take effect in 2018, but the recent budget bill pushed it back to 2020. The tax was supposed to apply in 2018 to plans that cost more than $10,200 for individual coverage or $27,500 for family coverage. Everything is relative, of course, but that was the definition (pegged to inflation) of a “high-cost plan” according to the ACA.

  79. overeducated and underemployed*

    My new job situation is a mess! I started a new temp job working for a former supervisor Wednesday. Aaaand…the project is getting rescheduled/restructured as of yesterday, so I got sent home after a half day, and today I’m basically waiting around on call to hear from the boss about what to do. That means I am literally going to lose money for this job this week. I was contracted for 20 hrs/wk, I have to work 15 to break even on gas and day care, and so far I’m only up to 12. Now what was going to be a 4 month, 20 hr/week job looks like it may turn into a 6+ month, ?/hr week job (same budget, fewer hours). That really sucks!

    In addition to the fact that we prepaid for day care for the month based on the contracted hours, I’m also frustrated because I was willing to commit for the 4 months, but I really don’t want to stop searching for a more permanent job until July, especially since whatever it is I’m committing to is changing so suddenly. I guess I’ll keep looking and hope this doesn’t end up turning into a bridge-burning situation. Aaaargh.

  80. PinkTeapots*

    I’m leaving my current position at the end of the month (again, thank you everyone who helped with my ‘giving notice’ anxiety), and we are required to have an exit interview. I was sent the invite this morning. It’ll be the day before my last day. How exactly should I handle it?

    I have no problem telling them where I’m going, etc.. but I don’t know how to deal with why I’m leaving in the first place. There are a ton of problems, mainly I was being horrendously underpaid, they let a coworker continuously get away with not doing any work, and we are all misclassified as exempt. For example, if I work 7 hours instead of 8, I get an hour pay dock, but if I work 9, I don’t get an extra hours pay. I’ve gotten pay docked at least three times this year, all for under 2 hours missed for the week. A coworker got her pay docked when she left two hours early because her mother died. Yet somehow, they still classify us as exempt and don’t pay overtime (I worked over 100 hours overtime this year).

    Is that even something I should say in an exit interview? I’m not terribly worried about references, my direct supervisor is also attempting to find a new job for the same reasons and he will give me a reference, but I also don’t want to completely burn bridges either and confrontation has never been my strong suit.

    Advice?

    1. Shan*

      I’m in a similar situation. I haven’t been asked to an exit interview but I’ve been a little nervous, because if they did ask me, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I had the same issues regarding being extremely underpaid and having to pick up coworker’s slack, among issues with my boss just being awful. My mentor in my industry told me to focus on keeping things vague and stating that the career move was best for me professionally, and mentioning the money issue if they pressed or asked about it specifically. (I’m sure someone else can chime in and say if this is good advice or not.)

      But misclassifying you as exempt is a big problem and something they can actually change, so if I were you, I’d bring that up. Alison has lots of good scripts but they normally say something like “I’m concerned laws are not being followed and it could be detrimental for the business and employees.” After all, it’s not like they’re losing tons of money…if you were exempt they wouldn’t pay you that overtime anyway, they just wouldn’t be able to dock pay.

    2. Ineloquent*

      Well, not really what you were asking, but go to your state’s labor department about that overtime thing, and provide any and all documentation you have. 100 hours is too much to lose, and they probably think they’re getting away with something. Not acceptable. You are legally owed that pay, so fight for it and don’t roll over.

    3. asteramella*

      I would recommend you write a detailed complaint to the Department of Labor regarding the worker misclassification. DOL is very keen on making examples of employers who do this right now.

  81. thunderbird*

    Anyone have advice on how to address my manager who is condescending and dismissive?

    Apparently this is just his communication styles, and others have told me this is just how he is even out of the office on neutral topics and it is really hard to get used to. I wonder if there is a way that I can address this without causing problems. He is not a great manager for many reasons, but lately he has given the staff duties and expectations beyond our positions and when we bring him ideas he is very quick to dismiss it and often doesn’t even have a suggestion to help us. In those instances asking him for suggestions or what he would prefer seems like a fair way to approach it. But in general his tone just sucks and I don’t know if there is a way to address that, managing up, or if he would even realize he does this and has the insight to improve it.

    1. AdminSue*

      I am sorry you are going through this. The owner of our company is the same way, so I know exactly how you feel.

    2. Soupspoon McGee*

      Do you have any reason to believe he’d change if you realized how his tone affected people? And do you have any reason he’d believe YOU? If you think he’s responsive and not punitive, they call him on it: “Rodderick, I’m sure you don’t intend it this way, but when we discussed summer teapot designs, it felt like you were frustrated with the team for making suggestions, rather than with the ideas themselves. It can be demoralizing to discuss ideas or ask for help because of this.” If you think he’d scoff, then your answer is that he sucks and won’t change.

  82. SalaryNOhourly*

    I took a job that was sold to me as salaried. When I arrived, I was told it was actually hourly. The hourly salary ends up totaling the salaried amount, but since it’s hourly, we don’t get paid for time we take off. We do get overtime, but they balk at people getting overtime much. So for the recent holidays, we were not paid and they were mandatory days off so we didn’t get paid for two full days. We are all professional employees with master’s degrees and licenses issued by the state. We’re in Texas. I believe that if we’re told it’s salary, that is what it should be. Thoughts? I otherwise like the job, but having small paychecks is really irritating in terms of budgeting. I’m wondering about the legality of a job that is advertised as salary, but is actually hourly. I’m sure it’s legal as most of these things are, but I wanted to check.

    1. AdminSue*

      Did you tell them you were told it was a salaried position? What was the response? Sorry, that really is a crappy thing to do to someone.

      1. Ashley*

        How so? Yes, this is legal.

        Salary is just a payment method – what really matters is if you are exempt/non-exempt. It’s never illegal to be considered non-exempt, which this OP is.

        1. Adam V*

          It sounds illegal to lie to an employee (or lead them to believe) that a job is exempt, and it’s actually not (or vice versa).

          1. Ashley*

            Oh ok, well in the US it is not illegal. Perhaps in other countries it would be, though. Absent a contract, job terms can be changed at a moments notice in the US.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      That sounds sketchy. I’ve been exempt my entire working career until my current job. I’m now non-exempt and full-time (and earning hourly one of the higher-paying salaries I’ve gotten), but I still get paid holidays and sick days.

    4. Natalie*

      I’m not sure why this would be illegal? It’s only illegal to treat someone as exempt when they are actually non-exempt, not the other way around. And there’s no law mandating paid holidays. Even if you had started as an exempt employee (and thus couldn’t have paycheck deductions) they could have reclassified you as non-exempt the next week. You don’t have a contract.

      FWIW, lots of non-exempt jobs are advertised with the approximate annual salary rather than the hourly rate.

    5. Ad Astra*

      It’s fairly common for non-exempt positions to be advertised in terms of annual salary, particularly if they’re white collar or professional jobs. It’s certainly legal for them to not pay you for holidays and other mandatory days off, but I’ve never personally encountered a company that does that to full-time employees because it’s pretty crummy.

      1. BRR*

        That’s what I was thinking. White collar jobs tend to have people think in terms of annually salary. And it’s just shitty to not pay for holidays in this type of position. There’s also not legal definition of salaried and hourly. There are only definitions of exempt and non exempt.

  83. Retail Lifer*

    I haven’t been on this site much lately because I FOUND A NEW JOB! AND IT’S NOT IN RETAIL! I got a great job leasing apartments, and if I can find time to get a real estate license, there could be lots of opportunities in the future for me here. Thanks to everyone here for putting up with my complaining and offering me advice. Now I guess I need to change my user name?

    3. Carrie in Scotland*

      Yey! I’ve been following your posts and know that you were done with retail and trying to get into HR.

      May this job be everything you hope for!

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      Are you going to change your name so that we can still tell it is you? And congratulations!

    6. Doriana Gray*

      Congrats on the new job! Have you also considered looking into property management certifications?

    16. BRR*

      I’m so happy for you. I know how long your hunt was and how hard you worked. I know you’re going to thrive.

    17. Jean*

      Way late to this party, but Mazel tov! (That’s Yiddish for “congratulations!” Literally translated, it means good luck.) I am happy for you. I hope you have many professional adventures in your new job and that all of them are good experiences.

    18. Shan*

      Excellent, congrats! I used to lease apartments AND I LOVED IT! Best job ever. I went there after working retail for 5 years. You still deal with crappy customers from time to time, but it’s really fun to build relationships with your great tenants. And I have some AWESOME stories to tell.

      Plus, property management, the licenses you can get, and just the experience can lead to some pretty great things: I start a new job on the 18th that I got in commercial real estate (ahem, hello $$$!) that I got specifically because of that property management experience. :)

  84. Administrative Anon*

    This is kind of long, but I really need to get this straightened out.

    I work as an administrative assistant at a university. I’ve been here for a few years and I’m in my mid-20’s (possibly relevant because I don’t have a ton of experience). I officially assist two department heads and across those departments are about 25-30 people. When determining priorities, I generally think tasks that benefit the whole department/are an extension of the dept. head’s duties > clerical tasks for individual faculty. As my workload has increased, I’m starting to feel the need to push back on some of the tasks individuals are giving me but I don’t actually know where I stand with them.

    I have two questions. Generally, what is the relationship between administrative assistants and members of the departments in which they work? Are administrative assistants subordinate to everyone, or just to the dept. heads and everyone else should be viewed as a general coworker? I’m not great at picking up on dynamics like that in general, and a few individuals make it even harder to gauge the hierarchy.

    My second question has to deal with one of these individuals. Before becoming a professor, this person was a lawyer (so maybe they’re used to having a secretary to themselves?). We have 5 programs that are put on each year. The other four individuals, and the predecessor of this person, handled those programs on their own. There is some clerical work that goes into it, but being in charge of the program is part of what professors are evaluated on and it seems the norm here for them to handle it themselves. Last year, I handled everything because the predecessor hadn’t yet been replaced and there was no one else to do it, and now the new person has been trying to pull me in more and more. Do I have the authority to say, “sorry, I have to do (other tasks) and can’t assist” as I would with a general coworker? Do I have the authority to say, “other faculty members handle all of these tasks on their own”, or is that dept. head territory? If it were my dept. head/boss, it seems more reasonable to me because my job is to assist them, but I also can’t imagine going to my boss and saying “hey, so-and-so is having me do a significant chunk of this program and every other person does it themselves and I really can’t take on this extra work for another year.”

    1. new reader*

      These are great questions to ask your direct supervisor. That person should be able to provide you with the expectations of your role in regard to prioritization and which tasks are your responsibility vs. the faculty members. Each campus and department can have different cultures and expectations. Also, are there other department admin assistants on campus that have been there awhile that you could ask to be a mentor? Having lunch with peers occasionally can build networks where you can obtains tips and tricks for how they handle these issues in their departments.

      I work at a university as well, though never as an academic admin assistant. I have had roles where I supported multiple people (coaches in the athletic department). Some people needed more or different support than others and I was happy to customize the assistance I provided to some extent (Suzy was computer savvy and did her own mail merges but Johnny needed help printing from web sites), but my supervisor provided guidance for his expectations of what people should always do for themselves and for me to be able to prioritize.

      1. Administrative Anon*

        Thank you for your reply. I have a new supervisor, and I think I may ask them soon. I generally take the approach that I just assist whomever however they need it, but my workload has gotten heavier and heavier and it’s getting tough to fit everything in.

        I have tried reaching out to one other administrative assistant. The one I have the best rapport with doesn’t handle pushing back very diplomatically (at all. it’s terrible) and she thinks it’s nuts that I do as many things as I do already. That I know of from other conversations, the others make it work by answering emails or doing other work while off the clock (we’re hourly) and I’m not about to do that either. So they either just take on more and more or they push back in a way I never would myself.

    2. Higher Ed(na)*

      You should definitely talk to your direct supervisor but at the great majority of universities, if you are working for as the admin for an academic department, you are assistant to everyone. The only admins I can think of who serve just one or two people are admins to Deans and above.

      I do encourage you to get this clarified sooner rather than later. If you said “no, you should do this yourself” to a professor on my campus, it would be a HUGE faux pas. It’s also worth mentioning that on many campuses, the department head is not the viewed as the boss of the other people in the department. In lots of places, the chairship rotates because it mostly entails signing lots of paperwork and going to meetings- ie, work nobody wants to do.

      In our department, we all just give stuff to our (amazing) admin and she tells us when she’ll have it ready. If she’s overwhelmed, she lets me know and I tell everyone to back off on giving stuff to her. One time, a colleague tried to foist a huge project that he should’ve been doing on to her. His supervisor straightened that one out.

      1. Administrative Anon*

        Thank you for responding. So far, I’ve always operated under the assumption that I assist everyone and I haven’t said no to any tasks, projects or requests. If my direct supervisor is the chair (who is not the boss of other people), would I still go to them? The only other person anywhere on that hierarchy would be the Dean.

        1. Higher Ed(na)*

          Yes, you should go to your direct supervisor. You can explain that your workload is getting larger and you need to know what the priorities are. I would bet you are nonexempt; if so, that’s something universities’ HR take very, very seriously, and explaining that you would have to do OT if you did everything asked of you may also help you get attention. I will warn you that chairs are often really bad at managing and supervising and so you may have to be proactive about suggesting what your priorities should be, based on your experiences so far.

          Once you have your boundaries agreed upon, you can push back diplomatically. Professor who keeps pulling you in more and more? Say, “Percival, I can help you do x, y, and z, but the rest is up to you. Your colleagues are depending on me to complete other projects.” If he pushes more, you can say, “Maybe you can talk to Chair about getting more support?” And then the chair needs to back you up. Is there anything in the archives here about managing up? The great admins do a fabulous job of managing up.

          More musings on great admins: The best admins I’ve seen are very straightforward about what they can do and how fast they can turn things around, and act professionally. A bad admin can tear a department apart by losing paperwork; playing favorites (“I’ll make copies for Dr. X but not Dr. Y”); or setting themselves up as gatekeeper. Like I said, a lot of chairs are terrible managers AND they don’t want to run things, so sometimes they’ll hand over more things than they should to their admins, and it goes to the admin’s head. Nobody likes to grovel just so they can borrow the key to get into the supply closet.

          1. Administrative Anon*

            Thank you for the additional feedback and talking points. Seeing sample phrasing helps me feel better about the possibility of having these types of conversations. I researched and utilized managing up techniques a year or so ago and probably need to brush up on them.

    3. Nanc*

      Hmm. Maybe ask for a sit-down with your direct supervisor to discuss. Before doing that, make a list of your job duties, and another list of stuff you’re being asked to do and are accommodating as you can. This is the point where you get direction on when and how you can say “I’m afraid that won’t be possible.” Additionally, see if you can come up with a list of alternatives for the folks who are asking you to complete the extra tasks. Can they be batched and done once a week, perhaps by a student worker? Are they asking you to do a task because they aren’t trained and if so, how can you help them get the training? Has the program changed to the point where the old procedures don’t work and what the new person really needs is assistance in re-setting up/restructuring the program?

      Ideally, your supervisor will support you on not taking on work you really can’t accommodate, but if you come in to the meeting offering alternatives and suggestions, that reinforces your commitment to supporting the department and it’s programs.

      Good luck–let us know how it goes.

    4. Sadsack*

      I think you should ask the department head. I would word the part about you “can’t do it” differently. Ask him what should be your priorities and if he wants you to help this person for some reason when you don’t provide the same support for anyone else.

  85. RG*

    So how do one-on-ones work? My previous job was at a law firm, so I didn’t really have a dedicated team of manager – I could receive work from anyone that was allowed to supervise other agents and attorneys. But now, I’m supposed to have recurring one-on-ones with my manager. What should I talk about during these meetings? If it helps, I’m working as a software developer, and we use agile for project management.

    1. Jubilance*

      I use 1-on-1 meetings in the following format:

      *Give an update on current work – what progress I’ve made, what’s upcoming, and any roadblocks/issues I’ve having;
      *Manager will give me updates from higher ups and assign new projects, or reprioritize the work I’m doing;
      *Discuss feedback, both of my performance but also my feedback to my manager on their performance.
      *Any additional concerns/questions

      1. Dawn*

        Yup, this is pretty much how 1:1 with my manager used to go. They’re invaluable for making sure you’re on the same page as your manager, too! Your first meeting with your manager, ask her/him what he/she expects from you going forward with these meetings, so then you can bring that to the table every time.

  86. Not Gloria, A.A., B.S.*

    I applied for an Admin Asst job through a staffing firm a few days ago. Yesterday afternoon the recruiter at the agency called me and informed me that they can’t consider me for that role because my AA experience is “too far back.” Um, what? True the last AA role I had was in 2009, and I’ve done other roles (customer service & data entry) not because I wanted to, but because I couldn’t find an AA role. All while still searching for one. So, what, now the thing I have the most experience in (11 years) and has paid the best I’m just SOL for?

    1. ET*

      It could just be that there was one other candidate than you and you were really similar and they just had to choose something and that was what it came down to. I doubt it will be the same consideration for other companies that you will apply to. It sounds like a really strange reason.

      1. Not Gloria, A.A., B.S.*

        She wouldn’t even submit my resume to the client to review. Also, her wording made it sound like I couldn’t be considered for any AA role they had there ever.

        1. ET*

          Sounds like the staffing firm are not so great. Maybe see if you can find another and remove yourself from their lists? The firm we use at my company are… impressively bad at identifying candidates that would be suitable for our team. Yet we’re still using them 4 years later.

          1. Not Gloria, A.A., B.S.*

            I’ve worked with others in this town and haven’t had much better experiences, sadly.

    2. Voluptuousfire*

      CS and data entry *are* admin duties, if not roles. Pacifying an angry caller as a call center rep or entering addresses into a database for new customers is admin work. IMO, anyway.

      I find some recruiters don’t consider the experience valid if you didn’t have the exact title. I think it’s just them being pedantic in culling resumes from the herd. They sound like an inexperienced recruiter. A more seasoned one wouldn’t tell you that outright.

  87. Draco*

    I’ll keep this as short as possible. I accepted my first management position almost a year and a half ago. I was an outside hire and initially very nervous about my qualifications, but it turned out I was very good at the job. I loved it… at first.

    About six months in, my wife got pregnant with our twins and it was an extremely difficult pregnancy. She was hospitalized three times with early labor, was placed on extreme bed rest for five months, experienced constant severe joint pain, and spent the final three months of the pregnancy have 10-minute contractions 24/7. Thank God the birth went well and we’re several weeks into parenthood.

    When it became clear early on that some kind of life adjustment, I had a frank discussion with my boss about what was going on with us. He said he would get me set up to work from home and he was fine with seeing me in the office once or twice a week. Awesome! So much more than I expected! We ended that meeting with him telling me to do whatever I needed to take care of my wife. Well, then she got hospitalized. After two days of missing work while taking care of her, he calls says I’m putting my job in jeopardy by being gone this much. I was furious and almost quit on the spot, but my wife talked me down. I expressed my frustration to him as respectfully as I could and he blamed the owner of the company, which ended up being a lie. Long story short, we had a couple more episodes like this, and when the babies were finally born, I took two weeks of FMLA because I didn’t trust him not to fire me. Good thing I did.

    I made arrangements for all of my duties to be covered while I was gone, notified all of our customers, and remained available by phone in case anyone had a question. I returned to work in a very celebratory way and made a point of giving my boss a special gift and thanking him for empowering me to work from home as much as I did to take care of my wife. I found out this week, however, that he did indeed try to fire me while I was gone on FMLA, and it was the owner who actually shut him down. Since I returned, I’ve been seeing my job duties slowly reassigned to other departments. I suspect I am in the process of being phased out and my boss has made a couple of “jokes” about me not having enough to do.

    I’m in an at-will state so really, he could fire me anytime he wants. It seems like he’s just mad that I was gone so much, even though he told me it was fine. I’m totally baffled by his two-facedness. Best I can figure is that he wanted to seem magnanimous to me, and then cut me down behind my back to… What? Make himself seem like he runs a tight ship, or something? All of this went down verbally so I’m not likely to win a wrongful termination suit. I wouldn’t really want to, anyway.

    Anybody have advice or thoughts? I’ve spent just over a year at my last two jobs so I’m worried my CV makes me look like a job-hopper. Additionally, I don’t know what I would do for references as I think I’d be unlikely to get a good one from my boss. Thanks in advance!

    1. 42*

      Congratulations on your twins! I went through that myself with twins 16 years ago – 3 months of bed rest, nasty tocolytics, 20-hour days once they came home…yeah.

      Your boss bites, what he did was horrible and I’m furious for you. Is there any way you can confer with the owner who went to bat for you to find out what’s really going on? That your duties are mysteriously shrinking and you’re questioning how secure your job is? Your boss may be going rogue for whatever reason, and the owner, while he knew that the boss was trying to fire you, may not know that he’s kinda sabotaging you now that he couldn’t.

      That’s the best I can think of right now. I hope you get a good outcome however this plays out. Enjoy your babies!!

      1. Draco*

        Thanks for you response and the congrats! My wife is in pretty good shape now – just exhausted from juggling two babies all day instead of exhausted from the birth.

        I’m former military so honestly I balk at the idea of jumping the chain of command. I feel like no matter what my boss is doing, that’s a crappy step to take… but maybe that’s the only way I’ll get honest clarity on my future at the company. It’s doubly sensitive since the way I heard about this job in the first place is that the owner is best friends with my father-in-law.

        I think I’ve proven I’m not only here because of who I know but because I do good work. Still, even if my boss gets crazy eyes and wants to fire me for no good reason, I feel guilty at the prospect of only keeping the job because I’m connected (however tangentially) to the owner. He’s been largely polite since I got back and has even engaged me on some plans for the future, which I don’t understand if he’s trying to fire me.

        I just no idea how deep his duplicity goes or why.

        Thanks again!

        1. Chriama*

          It’s possible that your boss feels threatened by you. Your relationship with the owner is enough for him to start thinking nepotism and look for reasons to prove himself right. I think you need to follow up with the owner.

        2. Ruffingit*

          Talk to the big boss immediately. Trying to figure out how deep your immediate boss’s duplicity goes or why he’s being a jerk is an exercise in futility. Whatever the reason, your focus needs to be on doing your job and right now, you’re unable to do it because of the way your boss is treating you. Get thee to big boss’s office! And good luck!

    2. TowerofJoy*

      Talk to big boss. It sounds like big boss might be on your side – whether its because big boss likes you or because they are worried about a wrongful termination lawsuit. See what can be done. You’ve tried going to boss, and he clearly won’t give you the straightforward.

      You may just be out of luck. Reasonable people think caring for a spouse is okay (especially a spouse and twins!!), but there are lots of people who are not reasonable. He may think your job should be priority #1 at all times.

      I’d start looking for another job, even if it makes you look like a job hopper.

      2. Draco*

        That’s my inclination, too. I value loyalty and honesty highly and sometimes I make the mistake of thinking that means other people do, too. I cringe at the thought of jumping the chain of command but it may be the only way I can get real clarity. But then, even if I do stay, it’s likely that my boss will find out I talked to the owner, and how much worse would that be?

        And of course, then I think: what if none of it is true anyway? What if I’m blowing this all up in my head and the duty reallocation is really just honest restructuring? Or maybe now that I’m back full-time, the problem may go away altogether.

        I thought after entering the workforce years ago that I’d just be dealing with professional adults, but I’ve learned that most people are just middle-school mean girls – especially middle-aged men! I keep working in these industrial settings and I keep getting astounded at how much drama and gossip these male-dominated environments are. Worse than any sewing circle.

        Sorry for the rant, but I think it’s still relevant. I just don’t understand why my boss is doing / has done this stuff. Thanks for the reply!

  88. Cross3t*

    Those of you who’ve worked or are working long hours (14+), how do you manage your life? What goes in what time slot? I’m a couple months into my new job and would appreciate any advice or experiences.

    1. 24HourLibrary*

      Lists. I don’t have the same situation as you do, but a busy day for me looks like this —

      7:00 AM – Leave the apartment
      8:00 AM – Arrive at work #1
      4:30 PM – Leave work #1
      5:15 PM – Arrive at home, eat
      5:40 PM – Leave for work #2
      6:00 PM – Arrive at work #2
      9:00 PM – Leave work #2
      9:15 PM – Arrive at home
      10:00 PM – Sleep

      Maybe fit some homework in there if I can. Lists are my best friend. Honestly. (Also, not to shamelessly self plug, but here’s a shameless self plug: http://24hourlibrary.straydots.com/up-your-productivity-the-5-lists-that-will-rock-your-world/ — I wouldn’t link if it wasn’t extremely relevant; hoping this isn’t coming off as salesy — definitely not my intent.)

    2. LCL*

      Not sure if you are doing shift work or just really long days. The following is from a shift worker POV.
      Figure out your sleep schedule. Then protect it. If you need to be in bed by 7:30 pm on weeknights, do that.
      Figure out your meal schedule, then stick to it. That might mean your largest meal of the day is your first, or second meal instead of dinner. Grocery store salad bars are your friend. But, fast food is better than repeatedly skipping meals.
      Dont let friends and family members fill your time off with errands. I have seen coworkers be made crazy by family demands: eg Joaquin is off Wednesday’s so he can do home repairs for me. When Joaquin needs Wednesday to sleep and buy groceries and clean the apartment.
      When you call medical professionals for appointments, have your schedule in front of you.
      If you are driving home in the daylight and will be going to sleep soon after, wear dark sunglasses during the drive.
      Basically, it is figure out your schedule and protect it, because other people won’t get it and will try to make you do stuff on your time off. Break your schedule when you decide to do something. And post a calendar with your workdays marked off for you and your family.
      As a last resort, coffee and chocolate milk mixed 50/50 is a fast but unhealthy pick me up.

  89. CMT*

    I have a question about using vacation/sick leave/paid time off as a new employee, mostly applicable to government employees at the state/local level, but I’d like to know about non-government industries, too.

    I looked at the employee handbook for one city I’m interested in applying to and it says employees are not eligible to use vacation in their first year of service, or sick leave in the first six months. Another city I have applied to has a similar vacation policy, but for the first six months. Does that really mean that in the first city, you can’t get any paid time off for six months? Is this common? It seems like a really long time to me. In my current job (state government), I think I had to wait a month or so; I know I took a day off in my third month to attend a wedding out of town.

    Do I need to adjust my expectations about this? My current job is the first I’ve had that’s come with paid time off (and one big pool of it, which I appreciate as a relatively healthy person). If I leave government, will I find similar policies? I’m not looking to take weeks-long vacations when I’m brand new or anything, I’m just wondering how people are expected to deal with things like staying home to wait for a plumber or traveling for weddings, etc.

    1. Adam V*

      That’s pretty rare in my experience – at my first job, you earn your paid time off month-by-month, but even then, you could use it right away. All my other jobs gave you all your time at the beginning of the year, and you could use it whenever, even if you were a new employee.

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      I’m in a non-government job, and we are not allowed any paid time off (sick or vacation) during our probation, which I think was 6 months. I was concerned about what happened if I did get sick, and I’m sure our managers will work with us if it does happen.

      We were accruing vacation from the first day, but didn’t get to use it right away.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve had many jobs where I got nothing the first year, but after a year, you got two weeks vacation time (only once have I worked somewhere with designated sick time). A lot of places would start insurance after a probation period of 90 days, depending on the job.

        You could take time off during that first year but it would be unpaid. Of course in food service, we got little or no paid time off. I remember I got one job that offered a week’s vacation after a year and I thought that was heaven.

    4. CheeryO*

      Are you sure you don’t get any personal days on top of vacation days? I work for state government and couldn’t use vacation leave for six months, but I started with five personal days that I could use right away.

    5. Agile Phalanges*

      It’s not common, but it’s not unheard of. I went from a job where I had earned 5 weeks of PTO (combined sick/vacation) due to my seniority, to a job where they only gave 1 week of vacation and 1 week of sick after your first year of service. Any days off that first year were unpaid. It’s a TINY company, and my boss actually thinks he’s pretty generous with this policy. Maybe it’s generous for the blue-collar workers (and even then, I’m not sure), but it’s certainly not generous for us office workers, but what can you do–the policy is what it is. So I took a couple of half days and even a day or so off unpaid, I think, in that first year, and I’m only halfway into my first year having paid vacation (1 1/2 years into the job), and have already used up my paid vacation. I have the sick days to fall back on if I’m actually sick (or desperate enough for a paid day to fake it), but at least my boss is pretty understanding about taking unpaid days or part days off to deal with stuff, for me to attend long weekends out of town for my hobby, etc. But yeah, it sucks, I agree!

      1. Anxa*

        It must be an issue of perspective.

        I think any paid sick days sound awesome, but also the right thing to do. Paid vacation sounds so indulgent.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Many retail jobs work this way. No PTO until the first year is up.

        I worked in another field where taking two sick days a year was consider excessive and would be mentioned on your annual eval.

        While I disagree with all these policies, I see that many places have similar things going on.

  90. Traveler*

    I have no idea what to do about a work/vacation situation. My sister will be living abroad for a few months (she leaves in a few weeks). She has asked (and I would like to visit her) toward the end of her stay. Normally, this would be fine, but my organization is moving the dates of a large annual event up and they are unclear about exactly when that will be, but it seems like I will miss a lot of the immoderate prep to go on my trip. We are a very small organization and my absence would be felt (but we had another employee miss the most recent iteration of this event entirely due to illness and made it work, mostly with me taking on all of the responsibility for the event, which is over several days). When asking about scheduling, I was encouraged to try and take the trip at another time and put it off until after the event (when my sister will already have returned home, so not an option).
    To top it all off, I am embarking on a serious job hunt and hope to not even be in this job anymore by the time I plan to take my trip, but I realize that may not work out. Am I crazy to book the trip anyway and consider leaving my job without another lined up if it comes to that? It seems ridiculous to quit a job over a trip, but it is more the timing of the trip when I’m hoping to leave this job anyway. I was also considering leaving in the month after the trip (but also after this large event) in order to relocate when my lease is up, so it may not appear to be such an issue on my resume. Anyone have any thoughts on the moral/professional/practical implications of this?

  91. Argh!*

    On Fridays I write a weekly report. I have to report on the accomplishments of the entire unit, including those of the people who can’t manage their time. Their excuses drive me nuts. I’m honest with myself — I’ll admit that I should have put task A12 in the A pile but got distracted and spent some time on B stuff instead. I hope the people who are giving me excuses are only lying to me and not to themselves, but I fear they are lying to themselves about their time issues. The best one from this week: It’s really not that important, even though you told me that it is, and even though you named the person who is waiting for this. I don’t know him so I don’t care.

    Not those words, but that was the message. I’m so glad I get to take 2 days off after reviewing the work that was “accomplished” during the week!

    (Yes, I’ve worked with these people to the extent that I can but at some point you have to grow up or learn new habits. People who have worked here for years still don’t know how to be productive. This pre-dates my time here and if I leave, they will continue their mediocre work here until they retire)

  92. Azalea*

    I know this is just me being whiny and all, but I know a lot of it is just my personal history coming through.

    I have never been part of the “cool kids.” I was the one who didn’t go to the parties, didn’t get invited to things, was never really part of it. Even when I joined groups, I always ended up kind of being the one on the fringes.

    I’ve accepted it as my lot in life, and I’m generally pretty happy. I have a great husband and some good friends – I just am not one of the people who is in the “in-crowd.”

    I recently started working at a different office. (some may remember my workspace woes – not going to go into details, but dramatic events forced my boss to move me to a different office.) For the most part, I’m happy here – but I still have that “Yeah, I really don’t belong here” feeling. Everyone here is on “teams”, which get lunches, have potlucks, do all sorts of fun stuff together – and I’m just kind of on the outside. I’m also coming from an office where the old supervisor would literally buy lunch for everyone except me – and when I asked him about it, he would shrug and just tell me he “forgot.” So now I’m sitting here, watching another team have a fun lunch together, and being told “Well, if there’s anything left over, you can have some.”

    It wouldn’t be so bad if I was still working where I was when I first started at this office – somewhere out of the way and doing my own thing – but they moved me out of that space into a cube in the middle of it all. And it hurts in that I’m still bound by the rules and policies of this office, but I’m not included in the fun of it.

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      I don’t know if this is work advice or not, or if it will work for you or not.

      I too was on the edges in high school and never really fit in, nor had anything more than acquaintances. As I got older, I decided I didn’t care, and then I started learning how to care about other people anyway. So instead of noticing that I was left out, I’d look for someone else who seemed to need attention and give it to them. I’d listen to other people, approach them first, invite them out to lunch. I became busy spending time on others and wasn’t left out because I was taking the initiative. Other people also want attention, and if you give it to them, they generally consider you a good person to know. Several years after that, I realized that I was one of the most popular people I know.

      1. Ad Astra*

        This is so great! I have always had friends but never was part of the in-crowd and always seemed to be a fringe member of every social group I was in, even my sorority. Looking back, my most successful social interactions usually happened when I took initiative and sought people out like ThursdaysGeek recommends. Try to put yourself in a position to include other people rather than waiting for others to include you. When you do get left out (it happens), do everything in your power to not take it personally — because it probably isn’t personal; and if it’s personal, it reflects more on them than it does on you. I do have to make a concerted mental effort to not take things personally — it’s never my first instinct — but the effort is worth it.

        1. ThursdaysGeek*

          Another change was that I went from someone very shy and who avoided groups to someone that others consider very outgoing and at ease in a crowd. And I mostly am at ease.

          Oh, and I enthusiastically second Ad Astra’s point about not taking it personally, because it usually isn’t personal. That is SO true! Here’s how I often put it: Others can’t offend me. Most of the time, whatever they did was not meant to offend, so I won’t take offense. For the few times someone is trying to offend — meh, they’re not worth taking offense over.

      2. Jean*

        Yes! I’ve gotten to know lots of good people by reaching out to them, especially if they seemed also to be on the sidelines. The social margins contain a lot of thoughtful people with interesting viewpoints.

        While growing up I was reserved, but not shy once I got to know someone. I was also fortunate in feeling basically secure (not always, but often) in myself and my outlook on life regardless of whether or not my choices aligned with those of the majority and/or “popular” people.

        As I see it, the so-called differences between people can be minor (e.g.,sports fans vs. sports-indifferent people; TV aficionados vs. TV-averse folks), major (religion, race, ethnicity, income levels and/or political affiliation) or situational–meaning whether or not one has accomplished whatever tasks are supposedly appropriate for one’s Age or Stage of Life. (Are you Married? A Homeowner? A Parent? Aha, but did you become a Parent at age 25, 35, or age 45?!)

        What amuses me is how sometimes the “big” differences are far less disruptive than the “little” ones. Thus the devout Baptist and pious Jew can find common ground in their concern for building a caring community, while the person who reads Jane Austen and the person who binge-watches the entire season of a sitcom simply stare awkwardly at each other.

        Human connections sometimes come out of nowhere (e.g., when two strangers share a laugh at life’s absurdity). At other times the connection fails to spark even though the people involved are ostensibly “perfectly matched” to be each other’s spouses or best friends. Some folks may see this as meaningless or stone-cold boring. I find all of it endlessly interesting.

    2. TowerofJoy*

      The thing about being part of the “in-crowd” as an adult is that you have to initiate engagement. You have to invite people out to get lunch with you, say you’re ordering and ask if anyone else wants anything, meet people for drinks after work, etc. I assume these “teams” are informal – so find one you have something in common with and start chatting them up.

      I know its not easy when you’re not the type of person that likes to do those kinds of things, but thats the only way to break into this.

    3. ginger ale for all*

      I am not the usual in crowd person either but I always enjoyed being kind of off beat and introverted. Being true to my personality and not trying to be someone else is rewarding to me. I have found my tribe with each life phase and circumstance. I just had to open my eyes to everyone and take small chances in one on one situations in striking up small conversations. My friendships develop slower nut they are worth it. Don’t set your sights on being the belle of the ball, just have friendly acquaintances that might be nourished into something more. Good luck.

  93. irritable vowel*

    I’m feeling kind of bummed out because yesterday the position that has been my dream job for the last 15 years opened up–and it pays way too little for me to even consider applying. I’d be taking a pay cut of $10,000-$15,000, and I can’t afford to do that right now. I like my current job well enough, but this is a position in a specialized library where I’d get to use my second master’s degree, and I actually volunteered there back when I was just starting my career. I always hoped I’d get the chance to work there for real some day. I know I should feel fortunate that my career has advanced to a point where I’m now making more money than my dream job offers, but I’m kind of feeling stuck where I am and ready for a change. Sigh. Just a vent, I guess!

    1. TowerofJoy*

      I feel you pain. I had to walk away from the job I’d wanted and worked towards (similarly niche specific). It was rough to do it, but the salary just wasn’t doable. Sadly a large reason was because getting the education to work that job had cost a small fortune.

    2. Kerry (Like The County In Ireland)*

      It’s the library world, and the library world is a mess. There are no dream jobs.

    4. Argh!*

      Try group therapy for 6 months. It would be a safe way to learn how you’re coming across and practice new ways of relating to people. You may be doing something that’s just not “social” (not necessarily anti-social). Feedback from the group or from the therapist could stand in for feedback you don’t get from work peers. (Some people would recommend just asking outright, “Am I doing something wrong?” but I’m not that brave so I wouldn’t recommend it to others)

  94. AdminSue*

    Hi all, I just wanted your opinion, if you have one, on non-compete/confidentiality employee contracts. We were given one to sign that I feel is too open to interpretation. The contract is supposed to be signed by today to be sent to our corporate office. I highlighted all the questionable parts of this 5 page contract and scanned it over to the owner and asked him to review those sections and call me to discuss. I am prepared with my questions, but the owner tends to get mad and pout when he doesn’t understand something or get his way. UGGGG, not looking forward to this conversation.

    1. F.*

      Have an labor law attorney look at it, especially the non-compete clause. Many of those have been struck down lately by the courts as being too restrictive.

  95. A.D. Kay*

    So, in an open thread over the holidays, I wrote about a really unpleasant incident that occurred with a coworker. He was very rude and basically threw a temper tantrum when I asked him to wear headphones. (He had shut his office door, but I could still hear the music in my cube). The guy brushed past me, stood at the entrance to my cube, never answered me or looked at me, and asked another teammate if he could hear the music. Spoiler: he could. Unfortunately, due to the holidays and his manager being out of town frequently, the situation is still not resolved… and my own manager told me that she had heard secondhand that the person in question didn’t feel like he did anything wrong. The office is small (about 50 people in this location) and it is impossible to avoid him. Not feeling great about this right now.

    1. ET*

      Wow what a rude unpleasant person. Sorry you work with them. If they want to make a big deal out of things it’s on them. You didn’t do anything wrong. He was just rude and thinks being rude is his prerogative.

      1. A.D. Kay*

        The whole incident was really shocking. I am curious to hear from HR professionals. What would you do to handle this incident, and what expectations should I have? What if this guy refuses to apologize?

    2. Biff*

      This exact thing happened to me. It seemed like management wasn’t responding, and then suddenly, rude dude was gone. So keep a small log of what’s going on for your own sanity, but understand that moving in on something like this can take some time.

    3. A.D. Kay*

      Wow, it gets even better. Friday he rolled up to me in my new cube (where I had moved to get the hell away from him), acting like nothing had ever happened. He asked me a question and was gone in 10 seconds. And this was AFTER his manager had spoken to him about his rude behavior. Weird!

  96. Rosa*

    Any data analysts here? I’ve recently started reading job descriptions to see what I need to move into a position like that. I was wondering if there any suggestions of keywords or even job titles that will help me find more entry level positions, rather than the 3+ years I keep seeing.

    1. ET*

      I do data analysis, data quality and data reporting (I’m trying to get my manager to hire two extra people…) even though my title says Data Quality only.

      In the U.K. at least, assistant or officer roles would be a good bet to go for. I started as an officer and I have an assistant who does much the same work as I do.

      For Example:
      Data Analyst
      Assistant Data Analyst
      Systems Analyst

      If you have experience with data administration or something else where you have been doing regular analysis (even if it’s not in your title) you could emphasize those aspects too. I am not the systems analyst in my company yet I do 15x more analysis than they do.

      1. Rosa*

        This is exactly the kind of information I as looking for, thank you! I had vexed thought of assistant so I’ll look into that.

        I’m currently only doing data entry so I’m definitely looking for something that would, I don’t know, bridge the gap?

        1. ET*

          I started with Data Entry and just became super familiar with the entire database and the go-to person for queries and I was luckily promoted into this role. Go for it! If I can say one thing, please if you ever have to be responsible for Data quality , read Thomas Redman’s “Data Quality: The Field Guide”. I read it last year and I wished I had read it 3 years ago when I was first promoted.

    2. Liz*

      Following along.

      I graduated just over a year ago (in marketing, so nothing technical), spent a year as a digital analyst intern (slightly different from data analyst, but in the same vein) that sadly did not turn into a FT position due to budget constraints. Trying to find a position now seems basically impossible since all entry level positions want 3+ years and more technical experience than I have. I understand that technical aspects can be learned, and I am more than willing to, but it feels hard to bridge 0 experience to 3+ years with “I’m excited to learn”

      1. Rosa*

        Yeah, I was hoping that someone might know of an example of a position where new grads are going in their company. Perhaps it isn’t a full on data analyst but had some aspects of it while doing some other low level work.

    3. Not Karen*

      What kind of data? I analyze medical data and my title is Research Analyst.

      Mayo Clinic hires entry level positions called Statistical Programmer Analyst which is a mix of data analysis and data management.

      1. Rosa*

        I’m more interested in the process so I don’t have a particular field I’m hoping for. My background is in chemistry so a research analyst might be something to look in to.

    4. videogame Princess*

      Hey! I majored in economics and now I’m working towards being a data analyst myself. I ended up working for a startup, because they are willing to let me learn on-the-job for a reduced salary. That might be the place to look. :D

  97. ET*

    I am struggling with automated job applications.

    I found a job that looks great and it posts certain teapot code experience as desirable (not essential). When I went to apply, I ticked the box that said No to the question “Do you have experience of [specific thing] in teapot coding”. I ticked no, because I didn’t but I have other experience and have received training in teapot code. I am so frustrated.

    Can I tick yes and then put later a comment to explain it, or will that just frustrate the hiring manager? :(

    2. irritable vowel*

      I think it’s better to err on the side of over-representing your skills/experience. You do have SOME experience in this area, and it’s not your fault that the form doesn’t allow you to explain. Putting “no” is just going to reduce the chance that you’ll actually get to talk to a human being about what your actual skills are. (Also, is it the kind of thing where you could at least gain a basic understanding of the specific thing before an interview, so you can say that?)

  98. F.*

    I have been in my HR manager position for a year-and-a-half. I came into it as an internal promotion based on my knowledge of the company culture (7 years tenure at the time), great work ethic and ability to learn new things very quickly. I am completely self-taught regarding HR law, policy, etc. I am now to the point where I am starting to know what I don’t know. As an HR department of one, I have no one as a mentor, and I do not have a degree in an HR-related field. I am considering taking the SHRM self-study course to obtain my SHRM-CP certification this year. I would be paying for this myself. There is no money in my small company’s budget for this, and I am doing it as much to improve my opportunities in the future (at a different company, I hope!) as for the benefit of my current employer. Has anyone here done this? Is it worth the money?

  99. AmyNYC*

    I started a new job this week, and I can’t tell how it’s going. It’s a HUGE company and I’ll be working in a new software so most of the week has been spend in orientation meetings (I feel like I’ve joined a very well organized cult) and computer training; due to space constraints I’m not sitting near my team so I haven’t gotten to know coworkers yet….. and on top of that, my boyfriend is out of town for two weeks, so I’m suddenly the sole person responsible for the dog and there’s no one to vent to at home!
    I’m just looking for empathy here, someone PLEASE tell me that feeling overwhelmed (so much that I sometimes feel on the verge of tears) and exhausted is normal and it will all be ok! (I know it will be, but I’m 4 days in and totally fried)

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      4 days?! Oh yes, it is perfectly normal to be completely overwhelmed at 4 days. And probably 14 and 24 days too. You’ll start to feel like you’re catching on, and then something will happen and you’ll realize you still know nothing. Over and over. And it’s ok.

      For my job, it takes months to really get the hang of it, and now at three years, I’m sometimes still overwhelmed by what I don’t know. I’m willing to ask questions and look dumb, I’m willing to jump in and learn — and those two characteristics are generally good ones.

      Don’t forget that the dog will be happy to listen to you venting, and thinks you’re pretty wonderful. You’ll be fine.

    2. Doriana Gray*

      That feeling is normal – relax! No one is expecting you to come in already knowing everything. Keep calm, stay focused, ask tons of questions, network with your coworkers, and remember to give yourself a break.

  100. costume teapot*

    So, a shitty thing happened and I am not sure how to approach. Advice appreciated!

    We were paid normally through ACH our usual paycheck and a bonus in separate transactions on the last day of 2015. On Jan 1, there was an unauthorized WIRE in of both our full paycheck amount and a second of our bonus amount. This was reversed with a WIRE OUT.

    The problem here is that some people’s banks charge wire transfer fees. Per transaction. I’m lucky that only happened on one of my accounts, because I direct deposit to like four accounts. But the problem now is that I (and some of my coworkers) had to pay my bank $15 per transaction that I didn’t authorize the company to do. So now I am $30 short because someone made a mistake. Whrn asked about it, payroll said they aren’t planning to reimburse people.

    This feels suuuuuuper wrong. The company screwed up and now several of us have less in our bank accounts and they won’t do anything? Is this acceptable or should I say something about it to our executive team? It might not be much money from a purely objective point of view, but people have student budgets. AND it just feels wrong on principal.

    1. Adam V*

      This is a company mistake, they should foot the bill for it.

      I would take it to your boss. “Since this went in as a wire transfer (two, actually), and my bank charges me for wire transfers, is there a process I should begin to get these fees reimbursed? Anyone in particular I should talk to?” If your boss doesn’t know, ask her “do you mind if I keep going up the chain until I find someone who can answer?”

      You could also try calling your bank and asking them to waive the fees – they will occasionally do this in the name of good customer service, even though they don’t have to.

    2. TCO*

      Nope, not acceptable. Most companies pay for mistakes like this. Definitely bring it to your boss and ask how to get reimbursed.

    3. Lillian McGee*

      If you can’t get the company to reimburse, try asking the bank to waive the fee. I bank with Chase and they usually waive a fee if I ask nicely.

    4. Gene*

      You could take a hard line. If the company won’t reimburse and your bank won’t waive, there’s always Small Claims Court.

      That would be a death knell to your career at the company; but you’d win. :-)

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I had my direct deposit randomly canceled, unknown to me. I wrote checks assuming it was there. Yeah. The company paid for the bouncing checks. I would have to say that the company should pay.

  101. MaryMary*

    I met a friend of my brother’s over the holidays, and realized that she’s a massage therapist at my favorite salon. I think she’s actually been my therapist in the past. Now, however, I feel awkward going back to her. She’s done nothing wrong, she was very sweet when we hung out, and I’m sure she’d be professional about it. It’s a mental block on my side. But I feel really bad calling the salon and asking for a massage with anyone except Lucinda.

    Are there any massage therapists here, or medical professionals, or anyone else where a social relationship has the potential to make a professional interaction really awkward? Is this a weird situation, or do I just need to get over myself?

    1. Chameleon*

      As an ex-massage therapist, I have met clients socially many times outside of work, and it never became awkward. There are limited social roles that we shouldn’t have a dual relationship with (like, our own psychotherapist) but there should be no problem with a friend of a friend (which is what it seems like the relationship is here). That being said, if you feel awkward about it, there is absolutely no reason why she wouldn’t understand if you asked for someone else. Having a comfortable relationship with your LMT is really important to the experience, and she should totally understand.

      So, really, you can do whichever feels right to you, and there is really no issue to worry about, either way.

    2. Agile Phalanges*

      I had a homebirth with a midwife, and as we were getting to know each other via our professional relationship, realized we had something in common and I ended up joining a group she was a part of after my son was born. It had the potential to be weird, and felt a bit weird whenever I actually THOUGHT about the fact that she’d seen me naked and touched me in some VERY intimate places, but she was super-duper profesional, plus a genuinely nice person, and it was never actually weird.

      So if you really really like her as a massage therapist and think you could get over the weirdness, give it a shot. But if you could take her or leave her as a therapist, I doubt she’d be offended if she even knew you asked for “anyone but Lucinda,” but chances are she wouldn’t even know.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I’ve had this issue come up with a couple of doctors–one I went to high school with, and the other who was the parent of a fellow skater.

      It’s not weird to feel awkward about it, though. I did at first, but they were both very professional so I just tried to be a good patient. I did only go to the parent doctor once, and we had other things to talk about outside that, so it never came up. The doctor I went to school with and I did not socialize outside the office; we had different friends, etc.

  102. KC*

    Hey hivemind,

    Recently I applied for an Assistant Manager position, but they end up offering me a regular staff position. Since I’m unemployed and need the job, I think I will take it.

    But what’s the best way/mentality to approach the negotiation/job, when what I really want is moving to the management position? I’ve been working as a supervisor so it’s a bit of a downgrade.

    KC

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      I don’t know if I have any great advice. Is this a job where you might be able to move up to that position after some time? If not, it’s easier to get a job when you have a job, so take the job and keep looking too.

      I guess for negotiation, ask (nicely) for the reason for not offering the management job, and what it will take to get to that. In other words, something like “I’m going to accept this position, and I know I can do well at it. I applied for the assistant manager position and was working as a supervisor before my layoff. Will there be an opportunity to move up to that position after you see how well I work? And if so, what is the very rough timeline would you expect to see for that?”

    2. Rebecca*

      This would be such a help to me. I have an elderly dog, and it’s getting harder and harder to stay at work even for the full 8 hours due to commuting time, let alone working extra. I have no one to let him out during the day, he’s blind and has hip issues, so it would be great to have a consistent person each day to help him. I’m not getting another dog when he’s gone.

  104. Jberry*

    I want to thank AAM and her readers! I recently negotiated a 50% salary increase for a new job and I used language I learned in AAM’s comments section. Specifically, when asked about my previous salary, I instead provided the salary range I was interested in. And I got the top of that range, plus almost 5% more, because of the nature of the job and, according to the hiring manager, they want me to be happy. I should point out that I was woefully underpaid in my previous position, but had I received an appropriate salary at Old Job, this new salary would still be about a 20% increase.

    Any good advice on starting a new, senior-level job on the right foot? It’s a highly visible position, too.

  105. Algae*

    We need a new training-tracking system. We have a great documentation program, we don’t have to manpower to justify an entire “learning management system” that included powerpoint or video presentations and the like. We just need something where we enter track who has trained on various SOPs (mostly). It needs to run Training Required and Training Missing Reports. It needs to be auditable.

    Sounds easy, right? For some reason, we’re having trouble matching these things.

    Any suggestions? Does anyone around here have a good system they use?

  106. coffee or tea*

    What is the best way to avoid gender segregation at work events? Background: I am the only women attorney and only associate attorney at a small law firm. Whenever we have after-work firm events I always end up spending the majority of the night with the wives while my husband spends the majority of the night with the partners. Neither my husband nor I enjoy this arrangement. I have a good working relationship with the partners, and good relationships with their wives but I can’t help but feeling that I am missing out on important out-of-work bonding time with my bosses. Plus my non attorney husband gets tired of hearing all the shop talk.

    Anyway to avoid this or do we just go with it and leave early?

    1. Chameleon*

      Can’t you just walk over to your co-workers and join the conversation? It sounds like the gender segregation is more about who is a lawyer and who isn’t; you and your husband are just joining the wrong groups.

    2. Ultraviolet*

      I know what you mean. I recommend that when you get there, you make a beeline for a group of people you want to talk to (in this case other attorneys). Choose your group before it chooses you, especially now that it’s become routine to segregate. For me, this sometimes requires arriving later than I would otherwise prefer to, just to make sure there are enough groups there to choose from. This is especially helpful if the event starts as a stand-up reception and transitions to a sit-down dinner. Make sure you’re standing with the people you’d like to sit with as that transition point nears. If that doesn’t work for you, maybe just work on how to exit/join conversations gracefully. (Or be comfortable with doing it gracelessly, which is where I’m at.)

      But if you’re interested in preventing the group as a whole from segregating, and not just preventing yourself from getting caught up in it, I’m not sure what’s best to do. Would it actually be a problem if all the spouses were in one group and all the attorneys in another? Maybe everyone’s happiest that way. You could try asking a few friends at the firm if they’d like to try mixing the groups more at the next event. If they say yes, then ask that at the next event they spend some time with other spouses and try to pull attorneys into mostly-spouse groups and vice versa.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      What if you and your husband stayed together during the party and directed conversation at other couples? Is that even possible? I am wondering if you can start a small mixed group and break the pattern.

  107. lia*

    I called my boss’s boss judgemental while he was standing behind my door, and I know he heard me. Any advice on what to do? apologize? Pretend it didn’t happen? I was looking through the archives because I’m sure it’s been asked before, but couldn’t find anything on it.

  108. Brett*

    Well, just found out they turned off one of my major public facing projects on Dec 31st. No one told me, and while I was scrambling around trying to find out what was wrong, my boss told me that the project is being closed up completely and will not be replaced. He was not supposed to tell me, but did anyway because I began asking questions.

    The site has about 20,000 users. Not huge numbers, but it is the sort of information people assume is public. (More importantly, it acts as a feed for 20+ other sites that re-serve the data, e.g. google, yahoo, nextdoor, etc.) I am just deeply troubled that no one told me whatsoever that it was being scrapped. And not replacing it… that goes against a core principle for a non-profit group that I founded and help run.

    My wife and I have been discussing that I just quit and work some menial job for 12 months while I wait for the clock to run out on the ethics laws that restrict post-employment for me. I think it is time to do that, because this is by far one of the crappiest things they have every done to me.

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      I have all sorts of questions that you probably shouldn’t answer here (since it sounds like you don’t want to be identified). But what does “ethics laws that restrict post-employment” mean? You’re in a non-compete sort of contract? Is the non-profit group your job, or related to your job?

      1. Brett*

        I work in the public sector. We have an ethics law that severely restricts certain employees’ ability to work for registered vendors (which is pretty much every company in our region in my line of work) for 12 months after they quit.
        The non-profit group I helped found (at least the local chapter of 200+ people) advocates for transparent government.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Wait. You founded this group and now they are basically firing you by taking away your work?

  109. TreeSilver*

    Long-time reader, first-time commenter here – happy new year, everyone!

    I’m seeking advice on job-searching internationally. I’m American, and interested in working in Germany. (I am unfortunately not fluent in German, but I am working to change that.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    1. FutureLibrarian*

      I can’t really answer your question, but suggest you provide further information.

      What type of work are you looking for? Are you starting from the ground floor, or do you have basic Visa knowledge?

      1. Ismis*

        Depending on what work you do, consider working for an international company. They will probably require you to speak German and converse via email in German, but documentation will be in English. That makes it a lot easier!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Ask again next weekend if you do not get many answers. I believe there is a one or more people working in Germany right now, that read here.

  110. Doriana Gray*

    Five more business days and then I’m free from my current nightmare (aka job)! I’m so happy I could get up a do a jig. I ran into some of the higher ups in my soon-to-be new division (a couple of AVPs, the technical director, and the big boss Senior VP) when leaving work the other day, and they gave me the most enthusiastic greeting – there may have been loud cheering involved :) One of the AVPs asked if I was packed up and ready to go yet, and I said not yet, but I’ll start next week – the guy who hired me said he’ll have someone in his division help move me whenever I’m ready (even though I told him I don’t need the help). They submitted my transfer paperwork Tuesday – it’s really happening! And I found out my direct manager will be a guy I’ve worked with, and enjoyed working with, when I was a trainee. I’m trying not to get too excited about this because every workplace has its problems (and they’re no different), but I’ve been walking around with a stupid smile on my face for the past couple of days. I can’t stop this feeling – I’m truly happy again for the first time in months.

  111. Linds*

    So I’ve been on short term disability since before Thanksgiving for some unexplained mystery headaches. While I COULD work if I absolutely had had had to, it was very, very difficult. My boss was the one who suggested I take the time off to get better.

    When I got sick, I had already been looking for a new job. My job is fine, but the industry where I’m in isn’t where I want to be. I’m also on call 24/7 in my job and have little PTO (no sick tine).

    I really don’t want to go back to my current job, and I have a handful of interviews over the week that just fell into my lap.

    I’d hate for my current employer to think I’ve been scamming them, but I also really do not want to go back after my time away…

    Is there any way I can quit without totally burning this bridge?

    1. Amtelope*

      Maybe phrase this as “Because of the health problems I’ve been having, I’ve realized that I need to make a change in the type of job I’m doing — I’m going to be moving to New Job, which I think will work better for me.” And if you can, it might help to offer to come in for a week or two to wrap up things at your old job, although if you’ve been out since before Thanksgiving, some one else has presumably already picked up your work in the mean time.

  112. Stranger than fiction*

    Does anyone else hate the “what are you doing this weekend?” Question from coworkers every Friday? I do. I’m freakin tired when the weekend rolls around and have at least a half day of housework to catch up on. The rest of the time I want to be on my couch with my dogs binging Netflix…and I’m ok with that. I’m at a point in my life where I’m perfectly happy to go out maybe once a month or so, but I’m tired of coworkers who think I’m weird because I don’t have back to back activities crammed into my weekend. I think they’re the ones who are crazy. It’s not high school anymore it’s not a competition who went to the most parties or coolest shows or whatever.
    Thank you rant done.

    1. Biff*

      I don’t like this question either. At my place, it’s a loaded question (part of the reason we are supposed to put up with no raises or a low raises is the ‘location’.) Fortunately, a lot of people no longer ask it so it’s a lot less awkward around here.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You don’t need to answer with specifics if you don’t care to. “Just relaxing — what about you?” is a perfectly fine answer that performs your part of what’s intended as a warm, friendly exchange without making it fraught!

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        True. That’s pretty much what I do but I do get some well meaning teasing now and then. I’m not real sensitive about it just easily annoyed if that makes sense.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      I am just like you in weekend activity level preference and am usually the most boring person in my office. :) Instead of just saying I’m staying in to relax, though, I try to mention something that I’m looking forward to about it, like: “I’ve got about 50 tabs open on my web browser that I’m looking forward to reading. There’s one article that’s about _____” or “I’ve been re-watching Gilmore Girls; have you ever seen it?” Just one little nugget of info to move the conversation forward.

    5. Gene*

      “My shipment of Japanese Tentacle Porn came in yesterday. I’ll be on the couch all weekend.”

      They’ll never ask again.

    7. ThursdaysGeek*

      I’m looking to an exciting weekend of laundry and paying bills. Maybe I’ll even work on cleaning my desk. What about you?

    8. ginger ale for all*

      I ask that to my friends at work all the time. There is a stand up comedian (John Mulroney?) who has a bit that goes, you know you’ve really grown up when you have nothing planned for the weekend and you love it. I am used to my friends saying that they don’t have any thing planned. I know that is just how they like it. However, I joke with one of them and make up wild stories to see if I can get her to laugh. She laughed over the idea of filling in as the circus trapeze artist for this weekend. Perhaps you can make up zany Walter Mittyesque scenarios to tell?

      1. Jean*

        I like this although I would probably subvert it back to domesticity. “I have a hot date with the washing machine!” No disrespect intended to anyone frustrated by a less-than-lively social life; I’m just poking fun at my chores by talking about them with excessive enthusiasm.

        1. ginger ale for all*

          You could also say “Oh, nothing . . . ” ” . . . unless you have bail money.”

  113. Rhiannon*

    I could use some advice on how to best structure my cover letter to not seem like a job hopper. My post-college work experience looks like this:

    *2 years at small company

    (left because of acquisition where my position was eliminated and I was demoted)

    *6 months at small startup

    (left because of family emergency in another country plus company’s finance problems resulting in decreased pay)

    *8 months freelancing

    *8 months at current company

    (looking to leave because my position was eliminated and I was given a completely different job that strays from my career path)

    I have never intended to be a job hopper, but circumstances outside my control keep changing my role/pay for the worse. How can I articulate that in a cover letter?

    1. Grey*

      I do something similar with the bullet points, but I word it so it doesn’t look derogatory. For example, instead of mentioning the word “demoted”, I’d just say, “acquisition resulted in elimination of position”. Instead of mentioning the family emergency, you could just say, “pay decreased due to corporate finance issues”. I also wouldn’t bother prefixing any reasons with “left because”.

      I know that some people don’t think that reason for leaving should be on a resume, but I’m in the same boat as you. I’ve had short-term positions due to circumstances beyond my control and I think it’s best to eliminate any assumptions a hiring manager might make when reviewing a resume. If putting the reason for leaving on your resume looks odd, looking like a job hopper looks worse.

      1. Rhiannon*

        Sorry I wasn’t clear. I don’t list the reasons for leaving on my resume. I just gave the reasons under the duration of my jobs so you all would know why I left after such short periods. Now I’m wondering if I should put that on my resume?

        1. Grey*

          Sorry, I didn’t realize that you were talking specifically about your cover letter. I don’t think the duration of your jobs should be listed in your cover letter. That’s best listed on your resume.

          I list the reason for leaving as the final bullet point underneath my accomplishments for each job.

    2. Anxa*

      I gave up on trying to rework my resume, and just put my job search on hold. It kind of stinks because even though I’m working toward sticking with an employer, that means staying in a part-time job.

      I’m even torn on getting a second part-time job because the thought of one more short-term job on my application is really difficult think about. I wish you could just leave them off online apps if you wanted.

  114. I Get That Reference*

    So if you were a temp somewhere doing a job and then got hired into it, do you count that as your start date? Would an interviewer be thrown off if they called for a reference and the hiring date was wrong by a year? (Same title, same department, same job, it just took a LONG time to create the position due to hiring freezes)

    1. ThatGirl*

      Make sure your resume has both the temp and “real” job on it, and use your temp starting date. Anyone calling for a reference should have seen that and understand the difference.

    2. Professionally Anon*

      I would use the date you were officially hired by the company as you technically belonged to the temp agency before that date.

      1. I Get That Reference*

        Sorry, that was kind of confusing. I was a temp through the company itself (it’s a giant academic institution so they do their own temps). So technically I’ve been employed here the entire time. They don’t count temp time towards things like retirement and whatnot so I wasn’t sure if the computer would give the permanent date if they called the HR office and asked.

        1. Agile Phalanges*

          You could probably use the full date range on your resume (if the duties were basically the same before and after the official hire date), or if you want to be super accurate, have two date ranges, one with “(temporary)” after it, under the same employer and job description. But if/when you get to the point of references and/or background check, be sure you make it clear to the hiring manager and/or HR person at the prospective job what the situation was, as you’re right–the system at your old job probably only gives the hire date as the non-temp date, and doesn’t reference the start date as a temp. If the person doesn’t know the whole story (or even if they do), they’d only report you as having started at the later date.

  115. Off Color*

    Hi,

    I need advice on how to properly respond if someone at work said off colored comments/responses to me?

    For example, if I get a reimbursement money and staff who handed me the money commented by “that’s a large amount. Is this really how much [the things] cost?”

    I personally do not think it is necessary for someone to say this when handing somebody else money they had requested from the company. But sometimes when I hear comments like that, I am not sure how to respond. Do I say “yes, that is how things cost” and just don’t say anything afterwards. Or is there a better way to respond?

    1. ThatGirl*

      That’s not the sort of comment that’s usually considerd “off color”. Off color means rude, risque or potentially offensive.
      As for your question, I assume you had to turn in a receipt or something, right? So unless they’re questioning your receipt (which is a different problem) say “yep, that’s what it cost” and walk away.

    2. Biff*

      I’m not sure that’s off color, precisely. It’s better to assume ignorance or confusion than malice. It’s entirely possible to me that this came from a place of genuine surprise — in the last year I really haven’t bought very much stuff, and what I have purchased has been used/on sale. Over the Holiday, I had to buy a bunch of stuff at retail prices and I have to admit, I was completely knocked off my feet by how much certain things cost. And that was just a year later!

      I think the best response here would be “I know, right?! If you haven’t bought teapot clay lately, you are in for a nasty surprise when you do!”

      1. TowerofJoy*

        Yes, I think this is the right tone to take. “Wow, crazy right?!” If they press it or ask more invasive questions, then you can start to worry more that they are making an accusation.

  116. mondegreen*

    Law student with an employment question here. I was just selected for a spring semester internship at a government agency. They’re also interviewing at spring OCI and I’ve bid for an interview slot with them. I will have only spent 1-2 days at the office before the interview, so they won’t have a real chance to judge my performance as an intern.

    However, the office seems small enough that they’ll probably recognize my application, so I think I should give a heads-up to my employer that I’m also seeking a summer position there. My note should probably also acknowledge that they haven’t worked with me yet so as not to sound presumptuous. Should I do this via email, and should I send it to the guy who hired me, my immediate supervisor, or the person in HR who’s helped me with security clearance/other onboarding? Am I wrong–should I not say anything at all?

    Additional details: the position is in the geographic and practice area I most want. If everything is as friends who have worked there say it is, and if I’m reasonably good at the work, I’d be delighted to end up there after graduation. I’m still waiting on a grade (and was interviewed before getting any), but the grades I do have place me in the top 10% of my class, though not among the top 5-10 students. Thanks!

    1. Female-type Person*

      Law student internships are essentially paid interviews, if they actually are in a position to hire–sometimes they are not and the clerkship is just money, and will not lead to a job. They want to see as many students as possible if they are hiring from the internships/clerkships. I would think it very odd if I hired a law clerk for a semester, and was interviewing for a different semester, and that clerk applied again.

      1. mondegreen*

        Okay, thank you! Taking your advice in mind, I will ask Career Services during a short appointment I’ve already scheduled for early next week. At that point I’ll still be able to withdraw my bid should that be the best course to take.

    2. CMT*

      I know nothing about the law field, but I think I remember similar questions being asked in open threads before. I’m not sure what search terms you could use, but I’d suggest looking in the archives!

  117. Tris Prior*

    Tips on keeping one’s job search organized? As far as tracking what I applied for, with what company, and which resume/cover letter version I sent?

    What worked for you? I’m thinking some sort of spreadsheet?

    This is probably a really silly question…. but I haven’t job-searched in more than 15 years and am finding it …. daunting. Every job I’ve ever gotten was from someone I knew – former boss, etc. – reaching out to me and asking if I was interested. I never had to sell myself or even send in a resume; they already knew what I could do.

    Speaking of which…. the thought of starting a new job where I don’t know the manager, have no reputation already, and have to make a great impression is daunting as well, just because I haven’t had to do it in so long and I was a lot younger then. And I’m so, SO tired and burnt out, between being suddenly swamped at work (turns out when a company publicly announces that it’s closing, its customers Buy All the Things), trying to make as much money as I can with my side business as I’m going to be out of work soon, and now job hunting.

    Just venting, I guess. Thanks for listening.

    1. SL #2*

      Yep, I just made a Google Docs folder with a spreadsheet in it (name of company, job description, point of contact, when did I apply, what’s my application status).

      I did make sure to copy and paste the job description for every job I applied to into a separate document, so I would always have it on hand in case they took the posting down but I was interviewing and needed to be able to see it.

    2. TCO*

      I use a basic spreadsheet with columns for company, title, date I applied, person I applied to, date I hear follow-up, interview dates, people I’ve had contact with, notes about the interview, etc. I don’t make it very fancy, but it’s really helpful! I also add in entries for positions I want to apply to but haven’t yet so that I can track their deadlines and prioritize accordingly.

      I also make sure I save each position description in Word or PDF format so that I can easily reference them if needed after the posting is taken down.

    3. Shell*

      Spreadsheet with hyperlinks!

      I save the job postings to my computer I’m interested in because links change/pages get taken down/whatnot. So the spreadsheet columns will go something like this:

      -Position (hyperlinked to saved copy of posting)
      -Company (hyperlinked to website)
      -Date I saw the posting
      -Date I applied
      -Application method (ATS, email, etc.)
      -Resume (hyperlinked to the copy of the resume I sent them)
      -Cover letter (hyperlinked to the copy of the cover letter I sent them)
      -Phone interview Y/N (if yes, with date and hyperlinked to any notes I made – contact person, interesting tidbits)
      -Interview Y/N (if yes, with date and hyperlinked to any notes I made – interviewers, interesting tidbits)
      -Offer Y/N

      Spreadsheets sits in the general Jobs folder. Each individual copy of resume/cover letter/job posting/etc. goes into a folder with the company name, and subdivided into position. So I can have Teapots Inc. as a folder, two subfolders like Teapots Inc – handle polisher, and Teapots Inc – Materials Purchaser, and resume/cover letter/posting/etc. for each position will be saved to their respective folders and hyperlinked to the spreadsheet appropriately.

        1. Shell*

          Missed a column! In between “date I saw posting” and “date I applied” will also be a “Application deadline” (if noted on the posting). I think I have conditional formatting done that if application date was later than deadline date the column will highlight red. (Which doesn’t serve any purpose other than to let myself know how many “late” applications I’ve done and shames me into writing applications earlier.)

          I’m glad this helped!

      3. Jean*

        Oh, my, this is wonderful! I think I’m putting my job search on hold for the next few months (due to other & more pressing family obligations) but you are giving me good ideas about holding myself accountable for achieving various professional development tasks.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      I used a spreadsheet–it worked great. I entered the date, company, hiring mananger / contact, address, phone, and website. I had a column for responses: Y=Yes, N=No, and NR=No response, and one for notes in that row. When I had a response or enough time had gone by I knew I wouldn’t get one, I highlighted it a light purple. If I had an interview, I highlighted it bright yellow (and I had a column for the date).

      I also saved a PDF of the job postings in case they pulled them in a sub-folder where the spreadsheet was. The sheet really helped me keep track of applications. I could pull it up and check to see if I’d already applied somewhere and when. At one point, I had to go into the Career Center and show what I’d applied for–I just printed out the spreadsheet. The UI counselor was impressed. :)

  118. Ben Dover*

    Our CEO sent the annual new years goals email. This year our focus is on achieving x billions of euros and increasing revenue by 23% over last year. He went on to explain there are 2 ways to achieve this of course, cutting costs and increasing the amount of revenue generated. He’ll need everyone to over achieve (or some similar language) and share human resources.

    I thought about this. You want us to push our limits to make the company 23% more money over last year and at best we’ll get maybe a 1.5% raise.

    Wait. Let me get this straight. The company makes 23% more money, and the people who make that possible might make 1.5% more money in 2016, IF they don’t get caught up in the massive RIF we all know is coming next month.

    LOLWUT?!

    1. TowerofJoy*

      But you’ll get to keep your jobs! (Sarcasm…). I assume thats the threat he is making with “cost cutting”. Sad.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If you cut costs, you also may cut profits. Unless you’re a drive-by CEO who wants to boost profitability for a few quarters, then take your golden parachute before the company implodes and someone else has to clean up your mess.

    3. Sascha*

      The president of my university outlined something similar in his “strategic vision” that included having us all operate at 110% while “streamlining” human resources. I think the phrase “doing more with less” was actually included. Bleh.

  119. TowerofJoy*

    When you are hourly non-exempt are you obligated to be available to answer questions by phone and text?

  120. skyglider*

    It’s taken me a bit to actually post about this.
    At the end of November, my position was eliminated. The reason is the role is being reevaluated. It was a complete shock to me, although I know I picked up on some undercurrents of something in the weeks prior. I’m struggling a bit because I’ve had a few positions in the last decade where the position was eliminated. There are things I know were lacking in this position (lack of direction, lack of support from the two teapot departments my role overlapped), and there is a part of this that is my own doing — I know I lost my “spark” and wasn’t doing my best work. Because of that (my role in this), I’m struggling with how to handle this mentally. My husband (a manager at his job) has suggested writing what was good and bad about the role, and what I could have done differently, and what they could have done differently. And then think about what I need in a job/organization/company so I can better succeed.
    For those whose roles have been eliminated to be reevaluated: How did you move forward? What are some things I need to be doing in order to better heal and move on to my next position?
    Thanks in advance.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      My role was eliminated last month. I was told it was happening in October and stayed on the payroll until mid-December. Which was both kind (they kept me on longer than they had to; I knew I was about to lose my income BEFORE I started my holiday shopping) and unkind (2.5 months of being a dead man walking is SHITE).

      What really helps me but may not be helpful to you is I think they weren’t wrong to eliminate my team. Making my team in the first place was a poor organizational decision — we did stuff that should have been embedded on other teams. No one ever understood wtf we were meant to be doing, and what we did was a mishmash of stuff it made no sense to keep together.

      I learned a lot in my job and I had amazing, supportive managers who were incredibly dedicated to helping me grow. I know if I give them as references they will say lovely things about me.

      I also spent a few weeks indulging in being bitter and angry, because those are totally legitimate feelings. You and I got the short end of the stick and it SUCKS and personally I feel better if I admit it sucks and have a good but time-limited sulk about it.

      I also went on a pre-planned two-week trip to another country to see family, which I felt a little bad about because the flights were expensive, but it was actually REALLY nice to have a change of scenery and just not think about it for a bit.

      1. skyglider*

        If I’d had notice like you did, I think I’d feel better about things. Centrally I knew they were going to make changes to different areas (one side of the two depts that shared my role), but didn’t honestly expect it to affect me in this way. It scared some of my colleagues. In thinking (after reading your comment), they weren’t wrong to revisit the role and how it fits into the greater scheme of things. I guess I had hoped to be a part of that review.
        The holidays distracted me from indulging in being angry and bitter – it’s been internalized more than anything, which is making things a little tougher right now. It does suck — I wanted my departure to be on my terms. And now I’m working on reminding myself that this doesn’t mean I’m a bad employee or anything like that. And in reaching out to some people I’ve dealt with in my time, I’ve had some lovely emails and offers of reference and support, so that feels pretty good.
        Maybe the change of scenery would be an idea…
        Thank you, Wendy Darling.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      This happened to me with no notice–I had a job, went to lunch, and then didn’t have a job. The first thing I did when I got home was apply for unemployment; I did get six weeks’ severance, and they said UI would start as soon as that was up. I was lucky to get the severance; it gave me some breathing room. It also helped me in the long run, because I found another job just as my UI was about to run out. If I had not had it, the UI would have started sooner and I would have had several weeks with no money.

      It felt kind of awful and kind of good at the same time–the workplace had grown very difficult and I had some problems there, which I had resolved, but I had the same feeling you did. I wanted to leave on MY terms, so I busted my butt to conform to the PIP and when I left, they said it was NOT based on performance. I was not the only person whose job got ditched. The good part was that I did not have to deal with their crap anymore.

      Honestly, getting started on my job hunt helped me because it gave me something to focus on besides them. It was not the first time I’d been laid off, and it helped to know that myself and other people had been laid off too and we all found jobs again.

  121. Wendy Darling*

    I just got asked “What motivates you at work?” in an interview.

    I said some BS about how I love learning stuff and making things more efficient, which is true but… dude, what motivates me at work is I want health insurance and I want to be able to afford rent, people food, and dog food.

    2. Bea W*

      Co-workers have bribed me with sweets and Dr. Pepper. I guess it’s clear what motivates me at work. Someone actually handed me a print out of an email with a bag of chocolate stapled to it.

      I think just about everyone I work with is highly motivated by promises of cake.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        It is widely known that the easiest way to bump your task up in the queue, assuming it wouldn’t make me blow a deadline, is to offer coffee or a donut. That’s also how you get me to volunteer for tedious tasks.

  122. VolunteerCoordinatorinNOVA*

    I have a very general question but I’m feeling a bit lost and thought this might be a good place to start. I’ve been working with volunteer management for 6 years and feel like I’ve hit my limit of where I can go. I’ve only been at my job since June but I’m already feeling antsy and like I need a change. There are lots of benefits of this job (good life work balance, closer to home) but I’m just not excited. I’m not planning on leaving for awhile but, the problem that I’m trying to figure out is where do I go from here? I’ve been thinking about corporate social responsibility but it’s a very small field so it’s not the easiest to break into. I love working in a non-profit but I do feel like I could use a break from being broke all the time. I’d like to stay engaged in the field somehow but I’m just not sure. If anyone has any advice of feeling stuck in your career choice and how you figured out a new path, but I would be super interested in anyone else experience!

    Thanks so much!

    1. JustLeaveIt*

      What about a government job? There are certainly plenty around these parts — both local and federal (hello, neighbor! I’m in NoVa myself!) and, from my perspective, sort of saddles the non-profit and corporate line in terms of the issues you see in non-profit. A local library was hiring for a volunteer coordinator a few months back. I think it’s been filled, but it’s at least an indication that there are jobs like yours and likely similar ones out there.

      1. VolunteerCoordinatorinNOVA*

        Hi neighbor! Thanks for the advice, I may need to check out local govt as the Feds just take forever and it feels so hard to break into.

    2. TCO*

      I’ve been there! Volunteer coordinator can feel like a dead-end role. The only growth I saw my colleagues experiencing was moving into volunteer coordinator roles at bigger organizations… and I didn’t want that. I, too, got worn out by the low pay and the sacrifices it required. I had about 6 years of FT experience, mostly in volunteer management but also some direct service experience.

      And I’m here to tell you that I’m on the other side now! I work for a public university in a good job with nearly a 60% pay increase (and better benefits) over my last nonprofit job.

      Here are some unorganized thoughts:
      – Look into moving into government (state, city, county, university, etc.). Some agencies, like our state’s human services department, hire a lot of people from the nonprofit sector. The culture can be similar enough that the transition doesn’t feel so daunting.
      – You have a lot of transferable skills! I applied for roles in things like community outreach/education, program/project management, stakeholder engagement, recruitment, customer service, etc. I got a lot of interviews when I emphasized those skills. I also highlighted how broad my skillset was, how experienced I was at interacting with a really diverse public audience, and how small nonprofits made me really creative and resourceful.
      – I was also interested in CSR but I know those positions are really competitive. I found that local health insurance companies had a lot of outreach-type positions that I was qualified for, and I even got a job offer from one. It offered another route into the private sector.

      I’d be happy to chat further–let me know if you want to be in contact somehow. There is hope!

      1. VolunteerCoordinatorinNOVA*

        It sounds like we have similar experience as I started out in DS and moved into volunteer management. I’d love to chat more as I’ve been thinking my next step should be a university or something similar. My email is volunteercoordinatorinnova at gmail dot com. Thanks so much!

  123. Anonymous Geographer*

    So, update to last week…
    I still have not had a day off and I am still working 10 hour days. I just got told yesterday that I am working through the weekend too.
    The main person giving criticism to me actually did send me some positive comments, but in general everyone has been turning very negative as the days of work wear on.

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      Will people die or flooding be a problem if you didn’t work the weekend? Because sometimes you do need to do more than you feel is possible. But try to get a break if at all possible, even if some work doesn’t get done. You will be able to work better after having a break, and that might be of more value than doing the work now.

      I’m in a job where lives and property are not at stake. And I can only do what I can do. After that, I go home. Unless the people requesting the work are also willing to work the extra hours with me, unless my work will save lives or property, unless I’m getting significant extra money that I need…. otherwise I go home.

  124. Professionally Anon*

    How do you stop caring that part of your office is not functioning as it should? I’ve discussed this before, but one member of our office is falling behind and we all tend to get complaints about the slow processing time or her lack of knowledge about common things she should know. I’ve tried to let it all simply roll off my back because I have so much of my own work, but I often find myself dealing with things she’s missed or students who are annoyed about waiting to have their forms processed by her. My boss has gotten fed up with our complaints before, so I see no reason to escalate it to her as she’s already aware. Anyone have tips?

    1. Gene*

      I dealt with this in a past job. The only way to do it is to stop doing her work for her. Cold turkey. If students are annoyed, hand them your boss’s card. If your boss asks why you didn’t do her job for her, ask her to tell you – in writing – which part of YOUR job you should let slide in order to take up the slack. Force your manager to actually manage.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Agreed with everyone here. The boss does not see there is a problem because you are covering it. Let it be known that you have enough of your own stuff to do and you can no longer cover what’s-her-name’s job.

  125. JustLeaveIt*

    I have a question about using leave. For a job that has separated sick and vacation leave, what are the expectations, generally, in using sick leave? Do you have to actually be sick or is it acceptable to wake up and feel like, yeah, I’m tired and could use a day off to rest and do things for myself and call in sick with just the explanation that you’re using sick leave? I’m not currently in this situation (my sick/vaca leave is combined), but might be in the future. I’ve heard it’s okay to take “mental health” days but I’m a by-the-book kind of person and worry about it getting back to supervisors that I was seen out at a restaurant or something, clearly not physically ill.

    1. Professionally Anon*

      Sick days are separate from vacation days where I work and I call in “sick” but never have to verify that I am sick. If I am taking a pre-planned day, that counts as a vacation day for me.

    2. Turanga Leela*

      My rule of thumb is that you don’t use sick leave if you’re going to be outside and obviously not sick. The occasional sick day spent at home with Netflix is widely accepted, I think. You call in and say that you’re not feeling well (or feeling under the weather, or weirdly exhausted, or slightly flu-y, or anything else nonspecific), and you’re going to take the day to rest. If you do this rarely* and not on busy days, no one will notice or object.

      *I’d say 1-2 times/year is okay in many jobs, but YMMV.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Any mental health day I have taken was just that, for my mental health. I did not go anywhere or call anyone. Stay off the computer in terms of emails, facebook, etc. As long as you are low key then your actions will match your words- “I need a day of rest.” and you should be okay.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      It really depends on the workplace… or even just your manager. Some places (based on letters I’ve read here on this site) appear to require a doctor’s note confirming you’re sick. Other places will want you to call in (and supposedly sound sick enough?). Still others will allow you to email in and just say you’re sick. My current manager is great, because he doesn’t even want to know that I’m sick. He said even if my spouse is sick, and I want to stay home to take care of my spouse, I can count that as a sick day.

    5. Wendy Darling*

      I think it depends on the company. At my last job I got county-mandated paid sick leave, plus personal days, plus paid vacation days. In practice they were all considered PTO and no one cared which kind you used for what — people used the sick and personal days first because those didn’t roll over to the next year, even if what they were using them for was in fact a vacation.

  126. cereal killer*

    I’ve been at my current company for the past 8 months, and in this time we have undergone a massive re-org. I have no idea how (or how well) things worked here before. But the past few months have been a struggle with everyone figuring out decision processes, how to work together, etc. The re-org affected my group in a way that we now with a specific group of engineers who never worked before in cross functional teams. Before coming here, I have 10 years of cross functional team experience, so it seems like second nature to me. But I just set up a meeting for next week with all the the team members and I think we are going to need to do a little team cohesion (I hesitate to say team building because this conjures up horrible images of ice breakers and trust falls). This is something I don’t have experience in.

    Any advice for how to start this off on the right foot? I want to us each to take turns talking about how we see our role (job definition) on the team, and about our team goals. I feel weird about this because not only am I going to be the youngest there but also the person who has been here the shortest amount of time. I don’t want it to come across as condescending. Anybody have any other ideas for setting out clear guidelines and goals for working together?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Why not split it into two parts, roles and goals?

      Have each person talk about their needs/concerns with their roles. Points for writing down what they say.
      And then have the group talk about the goals for the group and what they think they need to do these goals. Write down what they say.

      You may have to get the conversation rolling by talking about the goals of the group in general. If you are in charge of passing out responsibilities make sure everyone knows who is responsible for what.

  127. MadameLibrarian*

    I live in Philly and have been applying mostly locally, with some out-of-town stuff. I just got a first interview request from a school in NJ – can I ask for a Skype or phone interview instead of a cace-to-face? I don’t drive, and getting out there would be a massive pain.

    1. ThatGirl*

      You can, but … if you don’t drive, how are you going to commute to the job, should you get it?

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Are they insisting you have your first interview in person? I’ve been involved in a lot of hiring, and I’d be shocked if they wanted to bring you in in person before having a phone screen first. But, no, that’s not unreasonable at all, as long as you make it clear that you would actually move for the position (otherwise, they would wonder “Well, if it’s too far to interview for, how would she commute every day?”).

      1. MadameLibrarian*

        I just got an email with a time and place suggestion. It’s possible they didn’t realize I’m so far away. I’ll ask for a Skype or phone first, but like you said, specify that I’m willing to move for the right position. Thanks!

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Yeah, I would do that. Honestly, jumping straight to in-person would be a waste of time for both you and the school. It may not be a good fit (they may not be a good fit for you; you may not be a good fit for them). A 15- to 40-minute phone conversation can give a really great sense for whether an in-person makes sense.

    3. CMT*

      I don’t know. If they didn’t offer a Skype interview and they assume you’ll be coming in person (which it sounds like they do), I think I’d be hesitant to ask for one. As unfair as it sounds, they might view it as an extra burden and just want to go with somebody local who has no problems coming in to meet them.

  128. Lisa*

    I have a lunch meeting with the SVP in charge of my 2-person dept. My director said that he will talk candidly about my career goals, what I want, complaints, etc.

    How honest should I be? I want to be candid, and potentially address some of these issues. Just being paid market rate would be better since the other stuff isn’t on the table anymore since we were acquired.

    Issues
    -Paid less than market rate by 25K
    -Company got bought 2x eliminating any growth potential that made ‘making less than market rate’ worth it to move up quickly with the smaller company I had joined that no longer exists anymore
    -Because of the acquisition, dept was completely ignored for over a year – so we were moved from one SVP to this SVP. He is great, but being ignored stalled new clients, which has stalled me being promoted this century
    -I took this role to be at the ground floor of a team that I would help grow, hire, mentor – no one has been hired since I was
    -No new accounts in 1.5 years so no need to hire and no one in sales is giving our group any sales attention

    1. TCO*

      I think how candid you are depends on how comfortable/safe you feel with him. You could start with a more minor concern and get into the bigger issues it seems like he’s responsive.

      Your list of issues is long, though, and he probably doesn’t have the ability to fix a lot of those problems. Have you considered that it might be time to look for a new job?

    2. it happens*

      This might be a difficult conversation. You want to show yourself as a professional invested in the success of the company (not just your area of two people.) To misquote Covey ‘seek first to understand.’ How much do you know about the new company that acquired yours and the rest of the new SVP’s department? Are your skills useful in another part of the company? How flexible are you about moving around the company?
      It’s totally fair to tell the -upbeat- story about why you joined the company and accepted a low salary and express -some- disappointment about what’s happened since. And then you want the SVP to tell you what’s going on and what’s in the cards. By understanding what makes the SVP’s area successful you may be able to pivot into another role, or you may find out that your area will grow because it’s strategic to big acquiring company.
      I’m really sorry that the role has not met its promise and hope that the company will be able to make up for it.

      1. Lisa*

        I appreciate your take on this, but I’m happy in my discipline – I have a specialized skillset, which is only held by 2 people in the company. There isn’t a place to move to in terms of a new department as I do not want to leave the discipline.

        I don’t want to have ‘another’ conversation where I am mary sunshine and act like its all peachy, while I sulk in cubicle thinking about past promises that have disappeared and just look for another job outside the company. He is asking me to be candid at this lunch. I’m trying to figure out how to talk about the stuff, but be professional about it.

        I really just want to lay it all on the line, and say ‘I didn’t come here to watch my career shrivel up and die. I am not ready to call it quits and just punch a clock, I am driven, and want to be challenged not just do my time here staying in the same role and salary for decades.’ I want him to address the salary rate, and be honest with me. If they can’t sell fast enough for me to realistically be promoted within 1 year, should I just leave? I am at a director level in terms of experience and skillset needed. I thought I would be a director here, but if not – I want to cut my losses. My whole point is that I don’t want to ‘what if’ myself later. I like it here, and I would like to stay. I don’t want to have to have an offer in hand to force them to counter, nor do I want to force anything.

        I will probably start with – ‘I’ve been disappointed since my review when Tyrion told me that I couldn’t be promoted since their were only two of us.’ Let him talk. Point out that the other teams only have 1 Assoc Director each, but with 9 members. At what capacity does it make sense for their to be 2 ADs for our team? How many clients would it take to get that many team members?’Let him talk. ‘I’m concerned since there was a 1.5 gap between clients. While we’ve gained new ones, its not at the rate I had hoped in order to progress at this company.

        Ugh. My AD knows all this – he gets it, but new SVP might actually do something – vs old SVP who ignored us so long that we are in this state. I don’t want to leave a salary increase or a promotion on the table just because I asked the wrong SVP. If I voice my concerns just right, he might find the money for my next review and push for a promotion title change at least. Ok, sorry – went nuts on that tangent.

    3. Lisa*

      Update on my talk with the SVP

      – So we talked travel for the first 1.5 hours. Then he asked if i thought that my skills were being ulitlized enough. I said no. But he basically said every time I am in a room with you or on a call with you, I am continuously impressed by you.

      I thought that was nice, but it could have been a line to keep me from jumping like the 7 others on his team that left in quick succession. I did ask him why I was told that a promotion didn’t make sense since there were only 2 people on the team when others seeking a similar promotion were given encouragement and told exactly what they needed to do to get a promotion. I put it back on him: What am I doing wrong that makes me not worth cultivating?

      I basically manipulated him into thinking the other SVPs are nuts since it was clear he didn’t agree with their assessment. He wants to meet me again next week. He said titles are extremely difficult to get, but being assigned an intern, salary, and new responsibilities on my interests are easier. At the next meeting, I am going to ask why I am not at market rate.

  129. super anon*

    anyone have any advice for completely changing industries? i work in academia but want to move to a different industry all together. what i do is specialized and i’m not sure how to look for other jobs that i would be a good fit for, and how to sell myself to them. i currently do student recruitment & retention, but i also administer awards, chair several committees, market programs at recruitment fairs, represent my centre at conferences and marketing events. i advise students on applying to programs, and i plan workshops and conferences. what kind of roles should i be looking to moving into? i’ve thought of corporate recruitment, but i don’t have any hr designations or experience in that field.

    i’m also looking for tips on how to find jobs that pay in USD that you can do from home/telecommute. i’m canadian and our dollar is so bad right now that if i can get some sort of side job that pays in USD i would automatically make ~40% more per dollar due to the currency conversion and i’d like to try to capitalize on that. i am very good at writing, but unfortunately i don’t know how to do programming or graphic design. any tips for someone like me?

    1. GeekChic*

      I completely changed industries about 2 years ago – I went from working in a cafe to web dev to enterprise IT.

      The way I did it was not to try and make a case for how my current experience would work in the new field, but to devote a big chunk of time into making a portfolio piece. I think you’ve got LOADS more leeway transitioning into something like corporate recruitment, though.

      My focus when I moved was: figure out what I didn’t like about my current job (unreliable schedule, not much money, no career progression that I wanted, no ability to organise your own time) and actively look for the opposite of that stuff. Then I figured out what I needed look credible as a candidate for that new job, and I worked on it. It took 5 months from deciding to start learning to being hired to do something I found interesting, though those five months involved a lot of intense focus and very late nights!

    2. katamia*

      If you think you would enjoy it, you could look into tutoring. There are a lot of tutoring companies that hire tutors to work via Skype or a similar service, and while some might not want to hire people in Canada, others might.

      I’ve done a fair amount of work-from-home stuff over the past few years. I can give you a couple links to sites I like to look at for job postings. They’re US-based, but they tend to indicate whether the jobs are location-based or could be done from anywhere in the world. I can’t speak to the USD versus Canadian dollar element because I’m in the US, but you could look around and see if anything looks interesting to you.

      1. katamia*

        Links:

        http://realwaystoearnmoneyonline.com/
        http://wahadventures.com/

        I can’t vouch for any specific job postings on there and you’ll definitely need to do your own due diligence if you find anything interesting there, but I’ve found legitimate work-from-home employment using information from Real Ways to Earn Money Online and have found the information from Work at Home Adventures to be pretty decent overall.

  130. Happy*

    I have a major problem at my work and I would really like some help figuring out. I work in a small office and have a co-worker who has been they forever. The people I work for really depend on her the problem is that they allow her to hand out assignment and I feel that she is giving me more work then I can handle. I have another co-worker but she is related to that person and basically will not give that person very many assignments. When my boss gives that relative work which this person doesn’t know she will drop all get work to help him or make me help him but if something like that happens to me I have to do all the leg work. It is so frustrating! She will also interrupt muy conversations and try to make me do things in a very student way then I want to. I haven’t been on this place long but I am reaching a point where I would like to say something, does anyone know how and with whom I should address this with? Thanks

    1. Sadsack*

      When you are overloaded, tell the person you have these other projects going and that you aren’t sure how to fit in what was just given to you. Ask which takes priority and if it makes sense for you to do them all yourself, or if sone duties can be split up with your coworker temporarily.

  131. videogame Princess*

    I am in an interesting conundrum.
    I am working “full time”. The problem is, I seem to get my work done far within the expected time frame, and then I get bored and run out of energy. Essentially I could get the same work done that I’m doing now if I were working a 20-30 hour work week, and be happier for it. In fact, that is what I would love to do, but for the same wage. This might be selfish of me, but I figure that if this is what I’m worth now for the work I do, it’s what I would be worth doing a 20-hour work week assuming I gave them the same amount of work.

    (And yes, I really am getting work done far ahead of the expected time frame. My boss will say “you can have this in next week” and it will be done that day, and then she will be left scrambling to assign me busy work.)

    However, I don’t think that coming in and announcing “Everything I do for you takes me half the time that you think it does. Can I have the same wage and half the hours?”, no matter how delicately phrased, will go over well at all. I guess I can ask for more things to fill in the time, but the fact is that I don’t like sitting in an office for 40 hours anyway, and there are so many other ways I’d like to fill in the time. Any thoughts?

    1. JustLeaveIt*

      No suggestions, but I’ve had this problem in abundance since as long as I can remember and can sympathize. Well — maybe a few suggestions: if your supervisor (or someone else) can’t give you more things to fill the time, use it to read up on your industry with online articles or find other ways to do some professional development (free online courses like through Khan Academy or Coursera, for example).

      1. videogame Princess*

        Thanks! Part of the problem is, unfortunately, that I don’t really want to spend that time doing productive things–the minute the end of Wednesday rolls around, not only are my projects done, but I am burnt out and want to go home for a four-day weekend. Consequently, Thursday and Friday are completely wasted. And yet I’m still getting things done ahead of time. It’s incredibly frustrating.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          It sounds to me like you are pushing yourself too hard and most people might not have the work done by Wed. Do you take all your breaks? Do you work just your assigned hours?

          I guess I would just ask, “Boss, do you have anything to fill up my Thursdays and Fridays with?” Wait for an answer.
          If no, then point out that you are usually done by Wednesday and can the two of you take a second look at your position/ pay/hours to see if something different can be done.

      2. videogame Princess*

        Actually, I think you might have a point. Once my work is done, and I am burnt out, I can spend that time doing things that both benefit the company and don’t take a lot of work for me, such as courses. Any ideas for the best way to broach the subject?

    2. Not Karen*

      Unfortunately I can’t help because I’ve been in the same boat for the last 4.5 years! Before I got an exempt job, I had always assumed the perk of being exempt was that you could go home whenever you finished your work. Imagine my dismay when they told me you had to work 40 hours even if it took you less to do the job…

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I wouldn’t say anything. Unfortunately, many workplaces evaluate (and pay for) work by hours and not by accomplishment. If worker X can accomplish a project in 20 hours with better quality than worker Y, who tooks 40 hours to complete the same project (at a lesser quality), worker X may think “Why don’t you pay me the same as you would pay me for 40 hours, but I’ll work just 20?”

      You’re worker X.

      But for many employers, that situation means one of three things:
      1. Worker X is working only 20 hours. Let’s make her part-time and pay her less.
      2. Worker X can get that much done in 20 hours? Let’s make her work 40 hours and get twice as much done!
      3. Worker X can get that much done in 20 hours? Let’s fire worker Y and have worker X do both of their work.

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Oh man, I’ve been there.

      In my case, I proposed that I become a contractor, taking with me the projects I managed (my work was explicitly project-based, so it was clear-cut what I would and wouldn’t take with me; Project A, not busywork B, etc.). I would have worked from home/kept my own hours/other contractor-y stuff, and the rate I proposed would have both saved them money (by taking me off their various benefits) and increased my income (because I was able to get basic health insurance cheaply; I was young, healthy, and single – plus this was over a decade ago so it just cost a lot less). My boss was on board – he even told me to tell the rest of the staff – but then he changed his mind. Sigh.

      1. videogame Princess*

        I would love to try that, but I think that at that point I would have given my entire secret away. Did they give you more work/cut your wage once you admitted this?

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          No. I didn’t pitch it as a solution to the problem of not having enough work; just that I was interested in becoming a consultant and hoped to launch that business with some secure work.

          But it also was a healthy, supportive organization. That backpedaling sucked, but I had a great relationship with my boss. He thought he was lucky to have me, I thought I was lucky to have him and my job, so it was good all around. I just wanted more autonomy. If I were in the exact same situation now, 10+ years later, I’d just act more autonomous without asking for any changes; that’s just the confidence that comes from working for a longer period.

    5. Ife*

      Thanks for asking this question. I have no suggestions, just commiseration! I used to work 25 hours a week and now I’m at a different job (same line of work) working 40 hours a week and accomplishing the same amount or less as at the part-time job. I talked to my boss about it at the beginning, but every time the question got shut down with “don’t worry about it, the work will come, stop asking,” so that’s what I did and… sigh… not so much.

      I much preferred the flexibility of a 25 hour week and being able to go home and, you know, DO things in the afternoon. Unfortunately, our system isn’t set up that way. I think once we get caught up on finances I will try to go back to part time work again.

      1. Overeducated and underemployed*

        This is how my mom worked for about a decade while I was growing up – she was a part time contractor with flexible hours, which was good for her because she could work around our school schedules, but she worked really efficiently while she was working, and didn’t take breaks for personal stuff, so she was as productive as the FTEs in her group.

        And now even she says the system is not set up that way anymore. She’s trying to get back into contracting and says that in the 90s it was great because you got the autonomy and the higher rate due to having to cover your own overhead, but now the non-FTE jobs are all temp and pay less than they di back then. This is for skilled STEM work, too. It stinks.

  132. The Bookworm*

    How do you reach out to an employer you turned down years ago when they don’t have a position currently open?

    Back story: I was offered a good opportunity at Company A five years ago. I ended up taking a job at Company B because they offered me more money, better benefits, and more opportunities for growth.

    Fast forward to today. Company A has split, and Company C was formed. It’s smaller but most of the people I interviewed with (and really liked) are now with Company C. Company C is small but very successful and seems like a really great place to work. They don’t currently have an opening but I thought about sending the CEO a note, reminding him of me and asking him to keep me in mind if they do decide to hire any new people. Would that be okay?

  133. Job Huntress*

    Hello!

    I had a great phone screen interview a few days ago with someone in HR. He mentioned that his colleague would be sending a skills assessment, but I didn’t ask exactly when this would be. The following morning I sent a thank you and asked when I could expect the skills assessment to be sent. It’s 2 days later and I haven’t received an email with a link or anything. I know the hiring process can take a long time, but in my experience, being sent a skills assessment never takes more than a few hours. Has anyone else had something similar happen on either side of the hiring process?

  134. Lillian McGee*

    I’m here for high-fives today: We installed new Xerox machines and everything works fine! The only issues I’m being called about have been 100% user error! :D

  135. Tara*

    I’m a bit shook up in my job search process right now. I put my resume on a job search website to apply for a specific position (but apparently they post it publicly as well), and have gotten a few calls from different companies offering interviews. At first I was psyched and scheduled 2 interviews for today.

    Looking into them further, I began to see things that I’m taking as red flags, but I’m not sure that I’m not just being paranoid. I decided not to go to either. First off, they’re both for sales positions when I am looking for reception/administration positions (not the red flag, just a reason why I’m more inclined to not go). Neither company was very straight forward about the name of the company until I asked specifically. I managed to find the websites for the companies and the second one that called me says “Since they use a handful of other vendors, we cannot disclose the details of the program and campaign publically however for potential clients who are interested in using [company] can contact the Management team directly. For those who are considering a career with [company] will receive this information throughout the screening process.” It seems weird to me that they refuse to talk about what their company does. The person who called me didn’t even tell me what the position was until I asked, and then she responded just with “Sales”. I looked on Glassdoor and for both the companies, people talked about it being a door-to-door sales position.

    I was thinking about going, and at the very least it would be good interview practice. But, I did have a friend who went on an interview recently and the interviewers pressured her into coming along on a sales call with them to see how it works, and then ended up getting stranded in another city. I wonder now if it was one of these companies, because to me they seem a bit shady. I’m honestly scared to go and be pressured into a situation where it was some sort of scam. I’ve also had a friend who got called for an “interview” and it was really a meeting for a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme. I know how to recognize scams and to stay well out of them, but I am not extremely assertive and could see me becoming stuck in a meeting like that all day and getting uncomfortable and upset from a lot of pressure to join.

    I seriously hate that there are scams out there that pretend to be interviews for real jobs, taking advantage of the power dynamics of people applying to entry-level work.

    1. GeekChic*

      That completely sucks! I’d have hated to get calls offering interviews and then realise they weren’t an achievement at all, just a lure trying to prey on eager candidates.

      I hope you find something you really want! (And I wonder if you can make your CV private – I guess this could be different in your area but I literally don’t know anyone who’s ever got a good job search lead by a public CV.)

    2. Kelly L.*

      Ugh. Yeah, anytime I can’t get any details about the company even by pulling metaphorical teeth, I just assume they’re Kirby Vacuums. I too would be afraid the “interview” would turn into “hired on the spot oh and here sell this stuff right now in random place.”

      1. Tara*

        I’m glad to know that at least other people don’t think I’m just being paranoid about it! I didn’t feel too awful about not going, seeing as how I don’t even want a job in sales anyway, but your comment helped put me more at ease about my decisions.

    3. asteramella*

      I have had quite a few companies find my resumes on public websites and contact me for “sales” positions. In reality they were MLM positions selling things like knives or insurance and so forth. I think if you’re not in sales, and you don’t have any sales experience, and a company is asking you to come in for an in-person interview straightaway for a sales position, that’s a red flag that it’s most likely a MLM.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This. Maybe I am old. But if I cannot easily find out the name of the company, that is a red flag to me. I slow way down and look at what I am doing. So, no I would not get involved in any of this. I’d assume it’s commission only sales and move on.

  136. GeekChic*

    I do sysadmin things for the Software as a Service side of my work, and my role so far as been “smart newbie who gets stuff done quickly and well”. When someone left a while back, I got moved a bit laterally to help out with a big project run by people on the other side of the pond to me … And now, the big project for Q1 is to set up a second version of the project on my side of the pond, and I’m tipped to be the person ‘taking ownership’ of it.

    AAM readers, what’s the secret to doing a good job on a long-term project when you’re still very new to the field? I’m good at problem-solving and building things, but I’m used to thinking in smaller terms than this.

    2. katamia*

      Can you look at the documentation from the first version of the project or from similar projects in the past to get a sense of what needs to be considered when? Even something like meeting minutes could be helpful to get a sense of how the project evolved over time, pitfalls that the first group may have run into, etc.

      1. GeekChic*

        You said documentation, and my kneejerk reaction was ‘lol, as if people would have written stuff down’… but, no, I should definitely have a hunt, and perhaps also broaden my understanding of what documentation means. Maybe there are Gantt charts and powerpoints out there somewhere that I’d never have any reason to look at normally.

        I’m pretty well informed on the technology stack, but not at all on what the timescales for getting X done to Y level is, or what extra non-techy things I’ve never had to think about before go into this kind of thing and get sorted out by other people.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Estimating time: I turned that into a game in my brain. I would estimate how long something would take, then see how far off the mark I was. It did not take more than a few times and I improved dramatically. If other people are doing the work, ask them how long it will take and pad their estimate by a percentage- like 20%.

  137. StaceyMcGill*

    My husband and I both work for a university and I’m considering applying for a job in his department. It would be a lateral move, but it is close to a dream job scenario, in terms of responsibilities. The person currently in this role is retiring and told Head Boss that she has two people in mind as possible replacements, one of them being me. At this point, husband removed himself from the hiring process, which would normally involve him.

    Husband is supportive of me applying but has warned me (several times) that it will be a very competitive search. He flat-out told me that his colleagues will expect more from me than other applicants because they already know me and will assume that I have insider information about the position. Fair enough, but the whole conversation took the wind out of my sails. I definitely got the impression that being an excellent candidate isn’t enough; I need to be perfect in every way. I get it — nobody wants to be accused of nepotism, but it hurt my feelings, and I can’t even articulate why. I would never assume that I’d get a job because of my spouse, nor would I want to! It definitely planted the seed of doubt about whether his coworkers would be able to evaluate me as Stacey the Professional, or if I’m just Mr. Stacey’s wife.

    If I don’t get the job, I still have to face his coworkers semi-regularly — plus, in the small world that is a university system and the nature of this position — I have to assume that word would get back to my current department. So, it already feels riskier than applying for just any old job. If I DO get it, that leads to a whole other series of questions. I’m ticked that my husband won’t even have a discussion about whether it would be a good idea to work together because he believes it’s too premature. I believe there are personal and professional consequences for both of us the second I submit that application; he seems to think it’s not a big deal unless I’m a finalist. (Which begs the question, does he even believe I’m a legit contender? Because if I’m not, TELL ME NOW before I invest more time and effort.)

    Am I overreacting and seeing red flags where there are none, or should I be concerned?

    1. Schnapps*

      Hm. Did your husband tell you anything that you didn’t know already? On the relationship side, you might want to tell him how that discussion made you feel. (and your husband could be wrong about his coworkers. If/when you get the job, it’ll be up to you to set those boundaries, not him)

      (this is me using nice words rather than the words running through my head when I read that :))

      On the work side, if you want the job, apply for it. Is it a problem if it gets back to your current department? I’d be more concerned about your husband’s perception of his coworkers’ professionalism. A professional would see you as Stacey the Really Awesome Professional, not Mr. Stacey’s wife. That would be the only part that would concern me.

    2. Dear Liza dear liza*

      Your husband does not come across as being supportive at all! Once removed from the hiring process, he should be focusing on helping you get your application in awesome shape, making suggestions about what would impress, etc. Those are things I do for acquaintances who apply for my department! Your husband’s not wanting to talk about whether it’s even a good idea to work together is a big red flag. WTH, Mr. Stacey?

      Otherwise, yeah, apply for the job.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have to go the opposite direction from everyone else, I guess. No, I would not apply for it. It could just be me, but if there is this much hassle before I get the job it NEVER gets better after I get the job. The hassles double or triple.

      My guess, and of course, I could be wrong, is that your hubby thinks his cohorts are a rough group of people for [reasons]. He maybe concerned about you having to deal with these people, worse yet, he maybe concerned with himself watching them deal with YOU. “Can I keep my mouth shut when I see Joe saying X or Y to my wife??? I know he will say that to her sooner or later.”

      As a couple all your eggs would be in one basket. Financially speaking this could get tough at home- if one of you has a problem at work it is going to impact the other person. Yeah, it should not but it probably will. If one of you loses their job, will the other person be able to carry on OR will both of you end up unemployed?

      He may not be able to know if you are a legit contender, he might not know who else is applying. Since he knows you are considering applying, he might be backing away from the whole thing for purposes of transparency. Which is probably a good move on his part, but from where you are sitting it’s annoying at best.

      No, I would move on. This job has to many layers of complexity and you haven’t even started yet.

  138. Mrs. Tiggywinkle*

    I’m really confused about what my next step should be. I’ve always had a lot of trouble in the workplace. In more than 30 years of working, I only had one job I really liked, and even that one went south. I’ll try and make this brief.
    I had a professional job in public relations/writing for 15 years. At first it was OK, but after a few years I began to burn out and eventually my “position was eliminated” (I think they were looking for an excuse to get rid of me and the recession gave them the perfect reason). I didn’t work for three years after that b/c I had a very generous severance package and quite frankly, I did not want to return to the workplace. Ever.
    However, in the back of my mind, I thought I would pursue a whole new career. I got an entry level job in the New Career, and it has helped me decide I don’t want to work in this field at all. I am underemployed (vastly) and I barely make enough to keep the household afloat.
    Here’s my problem: I have a three-year gap on my resume, and three years in a new job that has nothing whatsoever to do with my old field (PR/writing). I have not done any professional writing in six years. My new job is a glorified clerk’s job. I don’t even know where to start looking for a job, or even what job to look for (I wasn’t crazy about PR work) or how to make my resume look like less of a train wreck.

    Any advice? One of my New Year’s goals was to find another job in 2016. I just don’t know where to begin. Thanks!

      1. Mrs. Tiggywinkle*

        I need a permanent full time job, with benefits. I probably should have added that my severance is long gone and I’m pretty broke at this point. :(

  139. Tau*

    So I am an employee at company A, and was this week sent off to a client of theirs, B, where I’ll be working long-term as a contractor. The project I’m working on is one B contracted from another organisation, C. I’ve had to complete training for employees of C as part of that project, and it strikes me as mildly ridiculous that this is not one but two steps removed from my actual employer. It’s contractors all the way down!

    On the plus side, everyone seems really nice, the project is pretty interesting, and there are definite perks I didn’t have when I was still working at A! (CANTEEN. I don’t have to bring in lunch every single day or go hungry!) And because I am not the only contractor I figure they know how this works and I don’t have to worry about them accidentally treating me like a permanent employee in ways they shouldn’t (ex: pressuring me into discussing things like overtime with them, which I am not allowed to negotiate directly). All in all, a good start and I’m optimistic.

  140. Hattie McDoogal*

    I’m wondering if anyone has any advice/suggestions for possible careers for someone who hates working with people, customers specifically. I know it’s unreasonable to assume that I could get away with zero interactions with other people but I would love to find some career where I could be holed up in a dark corner with headphones on and not have to answer phones or be constantly interrupted by customers coming in the door. I have a science degree but it’s not in a terribly employable field (and it’s getting pretty old to boot) but pretty much all of my jobs have been straight up customer service (currently an admin with heavy customer service duties, previously a server, barista, line cook, and teacher). Completely aside from the fact that I think I’m pretty bad at customer service, I don’t like that there’s no autonomy in my work and it’s so dependent on when people call or show up or need help in general. It feels like a customer is always walking in the door right as my put my lunch in the microwave, or the phone is ringing incessantly when I just need 3 minutes to go to the bathroom.

    Or maybe this is just something I’m going to have to suck it up and get better at? I’m open to the possibility that I just flat-out have unreasonable expectations about work.

    1. katamia*

      If your grammar and spelling are good and you’re detail-oriented, you could look into editing articles for academic journals. I did that work for a bit, and while I don’t have a science degree, one certainly would have helped.

      1. Hattie McDoogal*

        Thanks for the suggestion! Do you mind if I ask you how you got into that line of work?

        1. katamia*

          I kind of went at it from the opposite direction that you would be going at. I started as an ESL teacher, then moved into audio transcription, then did a little bit of book editing, and then got the job editing journal articles.

          For the company I worked for, my ESL teaching experience was especially important. I didn’t work at a particular journal; people who weren’t native speakers of English sent their article drafts to my company, and then we cleaned up their drafts before they submitted them to the journal they were aiming for. I had zero contact with customers; that was handled mainly by customer service and, I believe, a little bit by my supervisors as well.

          I suspect my experience would not qualify me to work for an actual scientific journal (I was an Asian Studies major, and while I was good at science, I SO did not have the background to understand some of what I edited even though I could edit for grammar), but I know someone who has some sort of science degree (not sure exactly what she studied) who works for a particular journal as an editor. I can’t say 100% that working for a particular journal would have absolutely no customer interaction (actually, that probably varies by position and journal), but it’s certainly work that *could* lend itself to having no interaction with customers.

          1. Hattie McDoogal*

            Very interesting, thanks. I’m actually a former ESL teacher myself (a year in Asia and another year back in Canada) so that’s definitely something I could look into.

    2. Anon the Great and Powerful*

      Maybe science writing? I’m a writer and am basically a hermit, it’s great.

      1. Hattie McDoogal*

        Heh, I didn’t want to use the word “hermit” but it’s definitely something of a goal of mine. :) Though unfortunately I’m not a terribly good writer…

    3. GeekChic*

      I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation at all – there’s loads of jobs where you only deal with other members of staff, and lots more where your external facing interactions are all business-to-business.

      The way I switched out of a string of customer-facing things by learning web development (I was talking about specifics upthread here – https://www.askamanager.org/2016/01/open-thread-january-8-2016.html#comment-965843), and that needs you to be able to work very closely with a client, and possibly to do some customer support stuff, but generally has a high chance of being able to wear headphones and work very independently.

      Tech industry stuff in general doesn’t ever involve customers bothering you in person (front-line helpdesk is probably an exception), and there’s a lot of stuff beyond programming. Programming languages are often fun to learn and valuable to have, but nowadays you can make amazing web stuff through pre-existing codebases like Drupal or WordPress or Magento without writing a line of code.

      Good luck!

      1. Hattie McDoogal*

        Thank you, that was really helpful. I liked your “look for the opposite of stuff I hate about my current job” approach (I could probably stand to sit down and think about that myself a while, rather than just blithely throwing out vague requests to all you folks).

        My current job involves a lot of working with Magento, actually, though I don’t ever get to do any back end stuff. My boss was trying to tell me that becoming an expert in Magento could pay off for me but I kind of blew it off as him hoping I’d pick it up so he could stop forking out for the guy who currently does it.

      1. Hattie McDoogal*

        I’m learning. In the last year or so I’ve taken a bunch of evening courses at the local technical school in Java and C++, though I’m nowhere near competent enough to be paid for it.

  141. Anon T*

    Oof, just had a phone interview for, let’s say, a start-up. Lovely woman but the job is absurdly ill-defined—they don’t even know if it’s part-time or full-time. She hasn’t hired anyone else and spent the whole call talking about the eventual product (which I wouldn’t be involved in producing [I don’t think!]) rather than what my actual job would be. I know she’s gonna come back and say, “I talked to the investors and we can only do 15 hours per week,” but without any, you know, list of job responsibilities. Just, “Do this full-time job…but part-time. Also I will expect you to know how to do everything, even though the job listing only asked for basic office skills. La la la.”

    I strongly suspected this would be a shitty job because of the combo of 1) lean job description 2) only asking for a little office experience and 3) emailed me too quickly to set up an interview. But I hadn’t realized it would be…barely a job at all?

    1. Susan*

      Oh wow, that would send me running, but I also have a weak stomach for disorganization and being left to fend for myself… if you’re more confident in your abilities as a self-starter, is there any chance to meet the rest of the team, to see if they’re all this fuzzy around the edges? And what I’d always do with start-ups is to try and find out if the brain/driving force behind the whole thing has any track record in making stuff happen – like previous success as business owner, or something similar.

      1. Anon T*

        I don’t think there IS a rest-of-the-team. I asked how big the staff was going to be and the response began, “Well, we’ll need a tech person.”

        This is for a website.

    2. Voluptuousfire*

      Run. Start-ups can be notoriously fickle and if you’re not the type who thrives in disorder and chaos, you won’t be successful. Especially in what sounds like a bare bones role.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Nope, nope. I took a job with a newbie boss. The reason I took it is because she had the necessary degrees for the work and I could see that eventually she would get messes straightened out. We both learned our jobs together, but the reason we could both be new at the same time was because of her solid background.
      It’s one thing to walk in on chaos and someone knows where things SHOULD be. It’s a totally different thing to walk in on chaos and no one knows what they should be doing. So, no.

  142. LibraryChick*

    I do a lot of training and workshops where I currently work. I choose the subject matter, design the materials and execute the training itself. I have that listed on my resume, but I feel it is buried in the list of accomplishments. I would like to add some specific examples of the training topics, and the scope of what they encompass. How would you recommend I list those, and how can I make that stand out on my resume? Thanks!

    1. GOG11*

      Would something like “designed and delivered monthly trainings and quarterly workshops on topics ranging from spout design to glaze formulation” work?

    2. nerfmobile*

      You’d want to give some indicator of the length of the training sessions and how many people attended – “Designed and delivered 5 2-day workshops on Teapot Knob Overglazing, Spout Reattachment, and Chip Fixing, educating 60 Teapot Technicians across 5 departments” would be different from “Created and presented 4 one-hour training sessions on topics in teapot repair to my 4 person team.”

  143. Tired of this*

    We have to cut back our hours this month, supposedly just temporary as a cost-savings measure. Mine were rearranged so I’m only working four days a week, with Thursday off, but I start earlier. I agree that this makes more sense for some parts of my job (although MY ideal schedule would be to come in early and leave early 5 days a week, or at least have a 3-day weekend), but the supervisors who proposed it acted like they were doing me a favor personally – “Now you have a day off during the week to take care of personal business, just like everyone else gets! Won’t that be nice?” and I found it really obnoxious.

    1. Is there any point in telling them I can actually manage my errands on the weekend just fine, thank you for the concern? I suspect not – it wouldn’t change anything – but the thought is very tempting!
    2. Seeing as how this is such! a favor! and knocks me down to about the same hours as everyone else, what do you suppose is the likelihood I’ll ever get those hours back?

    1. PrettyPrettyKitty*

      It depends on your employer of course, but FWIW, mine cut most employees down to part time as a cost saving measure, and bumped us back up to full time after a little over a month. It can happen. Is this a full time job (being reduced to less than the normal 40 hours/week) or is this part-time?

      As far as the “doing you a favor” that you don’t need, no I don’t think telling them you don’t need to favor will change their decision.

  144. Susan*

    Terribly proud of all the great cover letters I’ve banged out since Christmas – no negative responses yet, and one request to submit a dummy case study.
    Ironically, the only one that I’m stymied on writing is the one where my qualification seems like such a no-brainer to me, I have a hard time finding a persuasive (and not arrogant) way to say ‘Duh. There’s a non-zero chance you’ve already hired people who’ve learned this stuff *from me*, come on’. (To be completely clear, coming out of academia, I have no illusions about my creditable work experience in the ‘real world’, I’m very deliberately applying for jobs at or near entry level)

    Anyways, I’ve got a good feeling about this. Thank you, AAM & Friends!

    1. Mean Something*

      That’s great! Good luck with everything.

      Is it possible to find a way of saying that not only do you work on X, and hold qualifications in X, you’ve also had the opportunity to teach (classmates, colleagues, whatever) to do X, or to coach others who are learning X? It’s hard to know how to put it without knowing the field, but I am sure you can figure it out. I suspect there’s a way of saying this that doesn’t imply that you would come on and be the arrogant know-it-all–maybe being very specific about one skill or process for which you’ve found effective ways of coaching others? Or on which you’ve effectively collaborated with people?

  145. Tris Prior*

    !!!!! Contacted for a phone screen for a job a friend referred me to that sounds right up my alley. Literally the first job I’ve applied to. I’ve been reading a lot here about writing great cover letters and I worked really hard on mine – it at least scored me a phone interview so I must have done something right. Thanks, Alison and commenters, for all the advice!

  146. BG*

    Does anyone have advice on working with an extremely Type A manager when you are .. Type C? I’ve been working under her for a year and a half but I’m only getting increasingly frustrated with her expectations that I read her mind multiple times a week.

    1. Biff*

      I don’t know that this will help significantly, but when I had a manager that expected me to read his mind and make changes to agreed-upon processes based on his tone or vague levels of annoyance when the process came up, I found it helpful to:

      1. Document all requests.
      2. Assume that all vague comments were implication of expected change.
      3. Send emails to clarify. “Last week you asked us to document the weight of clay used for each teapot handle design. This week in the meeting you implied that clay should be monitored by volume, not weight. Would you like to change the standard going forward?”
      4. Keep a log of things that had garnered a semi-positive or better response. E.g. “Difficult Boss reacted well to our spreadsheet in which we monitored both weight and volume of clay used in each teapot design.”
      5. Keep a log of things that CONSISTENTLY caused consternation. E.g. “On several occasions, DB has requested that no color coding be used in spreadsheets.”

      (The reason that I only kept a running list of things that consistently got negative responses is because often times things that got a negative response one day would get a positive response later. Generally once something had gotten a positive response, I could refer back to it in emails )

      6. When faced with a dearth of direction, reference what had worked in the past. “DB, we discussed a need to monitor materials at this stage in the design process. Last year we kept a spreadsheet that indicated type of clay used, weight of clay used, and volume of clay used for each design. Should I revamp that spreadsheet to use again this year?”
      7. (I don’t know how well this one would work, it’s something I had barely implemented before I switched jobs) Decline to have ‘distracted’ meetings. If they seem distracted, let them know and ask if there is a better time for you to discuss issues.

  147. Beth A*

    A coworkers son tragically died last week. One of our Senior Management members dressed for the funeral in a black pantsuit with a white blouse and a VERY viewable black bra underneath. It was highly inappropriate. She and I are at equal levels on the organization chart and after hearing many employees commenting about her appearance, I discreatly suggested she use a scarf to cover herself. She accused me of being jealous of her and told me I was inappropriate for suggesting such a thing. Was I wrong?

    1. Biff*

      No. She might have been defensive, however, because she hadn’t realized the mistake until she arrived at the funeral, though I don’t think that’s likely.

      The whole thing about ‘don’t shame’ is badly out of hand.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        I don’t know if I would call politely and privately informing someone that they’re showing underwear ‘shaming’. It’s more of on the level of telling someone they have toilet paper on their foot or their skirt is stuck in their pantyhose — ‘You probably do not realize you are having a potentially embarrassing wardrobe malfunction.’

        1. Biff*

          That’s what I meant — telling her that her bra was showing was NOT shaming, and if she claimed it was, she was out of order.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      No, you weren’t wrong, if you weren’t rude about it, which it doesn’t sound like you were. She might have been mad because she was embarrassed. Or maybe she’s just a toad.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      No more wardrobe tips for her. I’d be done with that.

      No you were not wrong, most people would want to be told. She is not one of those people.

      It could be that she was embarrassed and threw the embarrassment back on you by telling you how wrong you were.

      If it’s any consolation, I have seen dresses with thigh high splits in church. People do this. Not sure why.

      As an aside, I think the remark about you must be jealous tells volumes about her. She said way more about herself there than she ever intended.

  148. MJ (Aotearoa/New Zealand)*

    I’m looking at moving into remote work, and it involves a bit of a refocus — not a change in career exactly, more like I’ve specialised in one area and will instead be focusing in another. However, I’m not sure how to handle my LinkedIn without alerting my current employers to the fact that I’m switching focus. Does anyone have any recommendations?

  149. BBBizAnalyst*

    I landed new job at a firm that has a reputation for a great culture in my industry and I just completed my notice period at old toxic job (large multinational that’s always associated with sketchy client practices). I can honestly say it has been the worst experience in my career (terrible management, longstanding employees that “can’t” be fired, nepotism/shady hiring practices, etc.). Even during my notice period, my manager conveniently ignored me and badmouthed me to several of my teammates. Overall, it was the cherry on top to such a traumatic experience and I am glad, surprised and proud of myself that I made it through.

    Here’s my issue. I’m excited about the new opportunity I’m starting in a few weeks and I know the team I’ll be working with will be great. However, I am so incredibly nervous. I do feel like there’s quite a bit of PTSD associated with ex-gig and I don’t want that seeping its way into my new role. Any ideas on how to overcome this (aside from therapy, which I’m seriously considering)??

    And somewhat related, I have old teammates who have reached out to me via Linkedin and email to get feedback on how they, too, can leave. These aren’t people who I want to keep in contact with. For various reasons, they were part of what made the experience so terrible and I just want a clean break from anyone that’s associated with the role and the firm. Is there a proper way to explain this nicely?

    1. NicoleK*

      Following….was going to post about the exact same thing. Left toxic job two weeks ago but still found myself ruminating over what happened. There’s still alot of disappointment, resentment, and bitterness over what happened.

      1. BBBizAnalyst*

        Yes, there were so many things I wanted to say on my way out but it would’ve solved nothing. Besides, my former manager blocked me from participating in an exit interview which says a lot about where I worked…

        I am disappointed in myself, resentful that I feel like I wasted my time at a company that was so bad and bitter that bad manager and culture she helped create remains in tact.

        I feel on edge and recognize this in myself.. I hope we both make it through. Toxic workplaces are damaging.

    2. West Coast Reader*

      Can you try writing down all of your negative feelings and thoughts to see if it helps in purging some from your brain? When I’ve had personal problems, that was what I did, and it helped a lot. If I wrote it out, then I don’t have to think about it anymore. I’ve already said everything I wanted to say and think.

      It’s like having a to-do list in your head. Until you write it down, you keep thinking about the things you have to do.

      Hmm as to what to say to your coworkers, here’s my suggestion. “I would like to focus on my new job, and unfortunately won’t have time to help you personally. May I suggest that you read Ask a Manager? I read the blog regularly and have learned everything I needed to know to get my new job. Good luck!”

      1. BBBizAnalyst*

        Thanks for the suggestions. Will try both, esp. the writing down of negative feelings. I wish there was a way to completely block out that portion of my life but alas….

        I’ve told so many people about this site! I’ve been a lonnnnnngg time reader.

  150. Anxa*

    Any advice on deflecting complements at work rooted in criticizing other people? For example “we’re so lucky to have you…at least you can _____” or “you work harder than ____” or “I think we’d be better off with you as our ____.” Especially as a volunteer, where you tend to be held to different standards, for better and for worse.

    These make me very uncomfortable. I feel like my performance cannot be compared to these others because I have a much different situation: I’m a volunteer, my other job is elsewhere, I’m less immersed in the environment, have more balance in my life, am significantly older than these people (although I don’t have significant extra work experience), and so on.

    Sometimes I sort of agree with these comments, but I’m not very good at managing office politics as an outsider. Honestly, I think this feeling of never being a regular part of the crew is what gives me so much anxiety about volunteering. I tend to feel much more secure in my place and positions as a paid employee. Almost like “well, I was hired and belong here, too.” As a volunteer I feel like I sort of owe everyone a bit of a personal relationship or something.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I think it calls for something positive and bland that doesn’t reference the person they’re comparing you to, like “Well, I really enjoy being here” or even “Well, I don’t know about that, but I’m glad to help out however I can.” I’m not normally a fan of false modesty, but they’re putting you in such a weird position with those comments that they’ve left you limited gracious options.

      Hell, as a volunteer, you can even say, “Well, if there’s ever a staff position that’s the right match, I’d love to talk about it.” (If that’s true.)

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Those “unlike some people” remarks are unprofessional and seem to be more a passive-aggressive way of talking behind someone’s back than an actual compliment to you (which is probably why you feel uncomfortable).

      1. Anxa*

        I think there’s some sincerity to the positive comments, but it’s very frustrating that it wasn’t worth mentioning to me without the passive aggressive remarks.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      “Oh, I didn’t know about that. Generally, I focus on the competition between the me I was yesterday and the me I am today. I try to be a little sharper and a little wiser each day.”

    4. Anxa*

      Thanks all!

      I’ve thought about it a little bit more and I think one of the reasons I feel so uncomfortable is because I know I’m already trying to be more accepting of compliments and stop qualifying my accomplishment and this is sending me straight back to deflection and shutting down such conversations.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Dunno if you will see this.
        Maybe you can steer the remark by saying something like, “I like working here, if there is anything you need help with let me know.” In this you have totally side stepped what Cohort is doing and you can focus on your own relationship with the group.

  151. JDrives*

    I am interviewing for my dream job on Monday. I’ve been spending a lot of time this week practicing questions and reading up on the strategic plan. I also plan to check out their 990 filings and research their current donors. The more I read, the more excited I am to be a part of this org!

    It’s an Executive Director/CEO position of an emerging nonprofit, and this is not a role I’ve held before, though I have nonprofit leadership experience. Any advice or things to keep in mind for a possible first-time ED? I will also gladly accept any good thoughts or juju!

  152. West Coast Reader*

    Is it common for companies to offer lower salary during probation and then increase it after the probation has passed? The job offer I received recently stated a lower salary for months 1-3, and then a slightly higher salary starting in the 4th month.

    I feel that they should just offer me what I’m worth to them from day 1. It’s like they’re not willing to shoulder the cost of orientating me into the company. If I’m not up to snuff, then fire me during probation. What’s your take?

    1. katamia*

      The people at my last job did this. The salary during the probation period was more than livable for the area, so I don’t think it was particularly unfair or unreasonable. I don’t know why the company you’re dealing with wants to do it like this, but the company I worked for had extremely high turnover–I quit before probation was over (for health/stress reasons related to the workload) and so did at least one other person. Another also quit after 5 or 6 months. So for them, I think the lower salary was a way to keep their costs as low as possible because they know that many of the people they hire won’t last long. They’re basically constantly hiring–I see ads for the job I had posted at least two or three times a month.

      There’s a whole other conversation to be had about whether the expectations and standards at that company were reasonable and whether instead trying to reduce the turnover would have done a better job of reducing costs in the long run, but I don’t think “We’ll pay you $X during the first 3 months and $X + $Y after that” is particularly bad if $X is something you can live on.

    2. Ultraviolet*

      I’m not super familiar with probation periods. But I would wonder whether the employer has been having trouble with people leaving after just a couple months, and the post-probation pay increase is meant to incentivize people to stay longer. I guess that’s less likely if it’s only a slight increase though.

      Is there a highly structured training or certification program that ends after three months? I can sort of imagine that if the first three months of the job are very different from the rest, to the point where you’re almost doing a different job during that time, it might be justifiable to pay you less. But I still don’t really like it. And if it’s just a probationary period rather than a training one, I especially don’t like it. I’m not sure the money the company is saving is worth the ill will they’re generating either.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have gone through this. It was worth it to me over the long run. I know that within a year or two I had forgotten all about it.
      However, you can use it as a tip to look for other yellow flags.
      FWIW, I did not think highly of the practice, either. But everyone there had been through it, so there’s that.

  153. esra*

    Tonight’s q1 party = me just word vomitting all over my work crush.

    The awkward stage ends eventually, right?!

    1. Mreasy*

      After a couple of VERY awkward false starts & almost a year of weirdness, my work crush turned into my actual boyfriend & several years later, we’re getting hitched. So it can work out. But the awkward stage can take some time to get through!

  154. Sarah*

    I really hope this gets answered as I’m terrible late to the open thread party, so to speak. I just got a job offer in a major city. The job ends at 930, and while the surrounding area is safe I have a very long commute (2 hours on a good day) which includes three trains and a very unreliable bus. I took the job because I’ve been out of work for nearly a year and it seemed like a good fit otherwise. I don’t drive, but I’m worried about my safety. Was I too quick to accept? They are not budging on the hours (I don’t necessarily need to be there until 930 but they want me there)

      1. Sarah*

        I know. They made it seem like they could be flexible but then they offered me the job and said it was a strict deal. I’m just really tired of long commutes but mostly Just want to go back to work. The neighborhood I get off at the train is not the safest

    3. Biff*

      I don’t think you’ve accepted too quickly if the job is otherwise a good fit. It’s quite possible you can make it work for long enough that you can move/purchase a vehicle. Some options in the meantime:

      1. Can you get a cab from the last train to your front door? (Use the bus on the way out, but use a cab on the way in as a way to mitigate costs) Cab could be Lyft or Uber.
      2. Can you find a rideshare on Craigslist or another website?
      3. Is it possible that there may be some inexpensive Air BnB or House-sitting oppurtunities nearer work that you could make use of? (House-sitting would have a bonus of being paid.)
      4. Some things that might help you feel safer — Bear Mace. Calling a friend and talking to them on the walk home. Learning a martial art. Carrying a taser.

      1. Sarah*

        Hi thanks for your comments
        Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be able to afford to take a cab (the train station is 60-70 blocks from my home and would be about 15 dollars)
        Ive not heard of ride share so I’ll look that up. I don’t believe using mace is legal in my state but learning a defensive class would be a good idea. Thanks…i suppose I can be a bit more firm with asking for an earlier dismissal time (which would allow me to take the LIRR which runs limited in my current area)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I have thought about going to the grocery story and getting a jar of ground pepper. Not a cayenne that could burn but just regular black pepper. The draw back is you have to stay out of your own way when you use it.

  155. Returning to Work*

    A year ago, I left my job and took a year off to do creative work full-time. For a number of reasons, it seemed like the right time in my life to do that kind of thing.

    Now it’s time to find a job again. How can I present a one year sabbatical on my resume so it comes across as a strength and not a weakness?

    I actually worked about 12 hours a day, taking few days off, since leaving my job. I have a lot to show for it, but I think it would only look impressive to someone who does the same kind of creative work. My art is also not tame or safe; it might not be the right kind of thing to present to a hiring manager, although who knows.

    Thoughts? Suggestions?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think you just explain in your cover letter how that one year fits into your larger career narrative.

  156. Jen*

    I am probably too late for this thread, and may try again next week.

    I am the head of my department, which has 4 teams (total of about 20 people). I am pregnant and haven’t told anyone since i am high risk and still in the first tri.

    Well…in 1 of my 4 depts, I had two people announce their pregnancies. They are due when I am due. One is very ill and announced early because she had to go take medical leave. The head of that dept and I chatted and I let her know I, too, will be out for the same 3 months as 3/5 of her staff. She’s going to have to cover for me (partially) as well.

    So 2 things:
    1. What’s the least awkward way to let my depts know that I, too, and pregnant but didn’t tell everyone at 9 weeks because I am way too private for that.

    2. Best way to manage through a time when a lot of my overall team’s strong players (self included) will be out? This isn’t the kind of role for which we can hire temps.

    3. This is a big one, and part of why I haven’t disclosed pregnancy yet- I’m an exec. I’m highly compensated. I hold myself to much higher standards than my mid-level employees. I will be flying/at client sites and in the office until the absolute latest possible. I didn’t take days off for morning sickness and have an OB that does weekend appointments so I am not out of the office. I am taking less than our 3 months of maternity leave because I have a live in nanny to help. I don’t expect this of my team. (fwiw this isn’t my first). How do I say this with the right tone?

    1. NicoleK*

      1. Just announce that you’re also expecting. You don’t have to explain or apologize for not sharing the news earlier.
      2. The only suggestions I have for this is to prioritize important tasks and have a strong transition plan in place.
      3. I don’t think you have to go into details about your income, compensation, standards you set for yourself, nanny, and etc. This should be worked into the transition plan. It could be a brief statement like I’ll be taking x weeks of maternity leave. Or you could share your plan with key staff once you’re a month out from your due date.

    2. Mean Something*

      Congratulations!
      I’m focusing on #3–I think that there’s no graceful way to say to the team as a whole, “I’m going to power through my pregnancy at the same high standard as always, but I want Virginia and Vanessa to know that I don’t expect them to live up to the same standard.” There’s too much risk of misinterpretation. I would, rather, walk the walk by the way you treat Virginia and Vanessa–not taking away responsibilities now, of course, but making it clear that of course they will leave for appointments, etc.–in the case of the one who’s already on medical leave, handling it professionally and like an unexpected but not unheard-of part of work life–and ensuring that they know exactly what’s available to them in terms of leave and benefits in a way that lets them know you expect them to take what they need. (I was going to write “to take all that is due to them,” but in the U.S. some people don’t want to or can’t afford to take the full time.) I think people get very quickly to know whether their boss is supportive of them or not.

    3. Overeducated and underemployed*

      Congratulations and good luck! I can’t give any advice on 1 and 2, but I think for 3, you can say outright to your team members that you know that each person’s medical and professional circumstances are very personal and distinct. Your plans for managing pregnancy and leave are individualized to work for you, and you or your colleagues in management want to work out realistic and individual plans for them as well. They might be afraid that you are setting an example of what is acceptable for them and it could definitely ease worries to hear that isn’t the case. I wouldn’t phrase it in terms of “higher standards” so much as, perhaps, you “choosing” to use less than your allowable sick or maternity leave for reasons they may not share.

    4. Graciosa*

      Regarding your third “issue” it’s only an issue if you make it one, so don’t. Be visibly supportive of your subordinates (in a normal fashion, do not overdo) who make other choices than you do. They may take time off for weekday medical appointments or different amounts of maternity leave or whatever – the only way you’ll cause problems is if you criticize their decisions or display an expectation that yours are the only right ones (or obvious pity or condescension that yours are not available to them).

      “I’m sorry you’ve been feeling poorly and hope you’re better soon” in response to someone being out for morning sickness is fine.

      “I had morning sickness and still managed three client visits last week – you need to rethink your priorities and honor your commitments to the company if you want to succeed” is not an appropriate response. “I know it’s tough for you without a nanny – I’m so glad I put in the time and effort to get to the point where I can have the help” is not great either. Do not make people feel guilty for not giving their lives to the company.

      Some of your comments make me think you’re struggling with a bit of guilt over your compensation in this case, as you have options (like a live in nanny) that may not be available to your subordinates. I would let that go. You don’t need to brag about it or rub it in anyone’s face, but you also don’t need to be apologetic for being compensated for the value you bring to the company.

      That said, I do think you need to be careful about your messaging around the other aspect of your executive status – the *way* in which you provide value to the company. Yes, executives have additional responsibilities to the company. I have occasionally messaged to my team that I cover things they don’t (on call for emergencies over the holidays, for example) because this is part of the deal when you move up in rank and yes, I am compensated for it.

      But I also message about boundaries and balance and taking care of ourselves. I worry about encouraging the idea that the way to move up in the organization is to work more hours than anyone else, to always be available, to “power through” any illness, and to make sure that the *company* is taken care of regardless of the personal cost – not only to the employee, but also the employee’s family. This is not the case, and should not be perceived to be.

      I do provide more value to the company than my subordinates, but it is because of my experience and judgment – not because of the number of hours I work in a week. I can solve problems that they struggle with. I can use my better understanding of the whole business (not just our team’s portion) to set strategy in ways that have significant impact on our success. These are legitimately compensable.

      You can never forget that you are a role model in the company. The way you handle yourself sets expectations for what success looks like. Think seriously about what kind of role model you want to be, and what expectations you are creating for your team – and also for your children who may one day enter the work force.

      My personal frustration is with the increasing cultural expectation that people on vacation are available to work (just because you can be contacted does not mean you should be). The personal balance I struck is that I am available for emergencies (fair because of my level and responsibilities) but only if you call and leave me a voice mail. I will not check email or text messages when I’m supposed to be off duty.

      Since I instituted this policy, I have *never* been called (and I promise it’s not because I would have been an ogre if I had been!). You train people to take more responsibility, and you leave good notes in good systems, and you make sure your boss or other support is available, and it works. I expect my team to leave things in good order when they are on vacation, but I do not expect them to make themselves available and I think they really appreciate it. We are all human, and we need legitimate time off away from work to perform at our peak levels when we are at work.

      If you genuinely want to work to the last possible minute because your work is fascinating and you love it, then do it. If you are driven by the nagging fear that you will be perceived as weak if you take too much time off, or dropping the ball on your career responsibilities, I would encourage you to think seriously about what you would do in the total absence of fear or guilt. Would you tell some of your clients that you will need to participate in certain meetings by video conference instead of flying to see them in person? Would you hand over more responsibility in certain areas to subordinates (and wow, what a great development opportunity!)? If you were medically prohibited from working more than 40 hours a week for the remainder of your pregnancy, how would you allocate that time? Thinking about these issues should give you a lot of insight into your real priorities and real source of value to your employer.

      I work in a company where most people – even individual contributors – handle email and stay available when on vacation. When I tell people how I handle it (without checking email when I’m supposed to be off!), the response I receive has been universally positive and supportive at every level. Rather than thinking I am less committed to the company, the perception seems to be that I must really have it together to be able to do this and be uniquely competent. There also seems to be a weird assumption that doing this when others are afraid to is evidence that I *know* I am far too valuable to worry about any repercussions, so therefore must actually *be* far more valuable than my peers.

      Think very hard about the example you want to set for your team and for your family in how you handle your pregnancy. If you handle yours the way *you* want to (untroubled by fear or guilt) and allow your team members to do the same without fear of repercussions, it will be obvious and you don’t need to worry.

      If you believe you must sacrifice your health, comfort, or well-being to the company because of your rank, they will pick that up too (no assumptions here – some people do just love their jobs, while others sacrifice). Our subordinates watch us more than we realize, but if you’re genuine in this they will know.

      Finally, congratulations!

  157. Professionality Question*

    Hi,

    What should I do if I still feel uncertain about a senior level staff member’s suggestion on how to categorized a transaction in a division that he manages? Let’s called that senior level staff, John. The department head, who is John’s and my manager’s boss, seemed to agree with him. He didn’t comment when John suggested it.

    My manager is the same level as John. She taught me all about categorizing transactions and John’s suggestion seemed to be not very logical compared to what my manager had taught me. She and John manages different , but very similar, divisions.

    What worries me is that what if John and/or department head is wrong, and the transactions gets audited? I might need to explain. I also need to teach a new staff member how to categorized transactions in the future, and I still have confusion trying to explain John’s suggestion.

    What if the transactions are later on considered incorrect? I am afraid that might hurt my professional image. And my manager might think that I lacked “common sense” for following John’s suggestion.

    Should I ask John about his recommendation again and then see if my manager thinks is right?

    I also don’t want to seem like I question John’s professionalism, but I also don’t want to be some that “lacks common sense” and that doesn’t know what they are doing.

    1. Graciosa*

      Talk to your manager.

      First, silence does not mean agreement. It may mean a number of different things, from the boss deciding to correct John privately to the boss’ mind having been elsewhere to the boss not having considered a factor which led your boss (his subordinate) to a different conclusion.

      Second, this is exactly the kind of thing your manager is there for. You are confused about an instruction given by her peer that you don’t quite understand. How does she want you to proceed?

      She may tell you not to worry about it – John’s division is the one responsible for handling these transactions in his group, and you will not be blamed for following his not-clearly-illegal instructions. Inconsistent judgment is common in many areas of business. If every manager had to do exactly what their peers did in all regards, they wouldn’t actually be managing their own divisions. It may take someone more experienced than you to distinguish where it would be considered too far outside the pale to tolerate.

      Because it is so common, it is not unusual to learn about these inconsistencies in training. You can train people on the reasons for the way things are handled in your division, while also telling people that John uses alternate X for Y type transactions in his area. Why? He indicated that [whatever explanation he gave – it doesn’t have to make sense]. If you get questions, it is perfectly fair to admit that you don’t feel qualified to speak to John’s system as you’re more familiar with that of your own boss, while referring questions to John (or John’s designated subordinate in charge of the area) if more detail is needed.

      Alternatively, this particular inconsistency could be a Big Deal – in which case, your boss is the one who has to handle it – either by raising it with John or their boss as needed. This is above your level – which again, is why you have a boss. Your boss should give you some sort of direction, and be willing to back you for having followed it. If you are audited, having questioned the instruction and received and followed direction from a legitimate authority will just lead the auditors to the authority in all but the most extreme cases. Again, this is totally normal and incredibly common.

      If you really, really believe that this inconsistency is obviously and dangerously wrong (and not just an ordinary disagreement), consider 1) taking steps to document that you questioned this and received very clear direction from someone authorized to give it, and 2) whether it needs to be reported to an appropriate authority (legal / regulatory / professional standards body).

      I would caution you, however, that this is Not Done in normal situations, but should be reserved for extreme cases only. For example, there is a difference between deciding whether a letter agreement is a sufficient commitment to book revenue on a transaction and deciding to just record whatever revenue is needed to meet street expectations of the quarterly report by claiming to have sufficient agreements with nonexistent customers. The latter is what you should consider reporting.

      But my instincts are that talking to your boss will settle this in some way with much less difficulty than you expect.

  158. Overeducated and underemployed*

    Hey! I’m posting again, way late! Looking for advice on how to juggle multiple prospects for low-paid temp work along with a full time job search. Your thoughts on how to a) stay employed, b) keep looking for something more stable, and c) not burn bridges with b welcome.

    Here’s the situation:

    1) I’ve been seasonally employed since June. My season is ending but I am eligible for rehire next June. A former supervisor offered me a temp job for four months. The commute is rough and the pay is not great, but it would keep me employed during the gap, so I said yes and planned to hold off on job searching for a couple months so I could be committed through April.

    I started the temp job Wednesday. On Thursday, the schedule for the project changed, and now he needs me through June! This stinks because I did NOT originally commit to this commute and this project for six months, I am just not willing to quit searching for that long, and I’m also not thrilled with the idea of returning to my seasonal position a month late. It also leaves open the question of how my position will stay on budget for 50% longer. One option he suggested is that I work 2 months, break 2 months, and work 2 more, but I said that wasn’t feasible because I’d still have to pay for child care during the break. I would be ok with reducing my weekly hours significantly if we had to, but he doesn’t think that would be good for the project, so he said in the next weeks he will start looking for additional funding for me to help on another project in order to bridge the gap. He’s really trying to make this work and be a good employer.

    2) This morning I got an email from another former supervisor about…a temp job, sort of overlapping with the 2 month break the other supervisor suggested, which could solve that problem! The drawback is that it’s also a long commute, and it pays so little that I might actually lose money after day care and gas. But it is something I’m REALLY EXCITED about, work that I really miss, that I think would help build my resume well. I want to do it, but the pay would at best cover costs, and probably not even that. I wouldn’t go into debt for it, but I might wind up spending more than I make and cover it out of family cash flow, thus reducing savings accordingly. Is it OK to work “for the experience” when you’re a grown adult with a kid and an underfunded retirement account?

    3) I still want, and need, a more stable job, so I’m quietly continuing to search and interview. Others I know in my field have taken 1-3 years to find a good position, since the jobs are so few and so competitive, so I feel like I can’t afford to let potential opportunities go in order to temp for six months. But this does make the potential for reference checks awkward, since the former supervisors of #1 and 2 are among my references, and they might not be happy if I did wind up leaving before the end of their projects.

    What’s the most graceful and least dumb way to handle all this? Frankly, I’m sort of regretting signing onto job 1 given how the parameters changed drastically within my first week – I might not have committed if it were a six month project from the start. But I think I can’t have that conversation with the supervisor unless the message is “…so I’m withdrawing now,” and I’m not ready to do that without another solid offer. In the meanwhile, how to juggle prospects?

    Thanks in advance, anyone who’s still around!

  159. OlympiasEpiriot*

    Anyone hear any news about AlligatorSky from a couple of months back? (She had a toxic fam and was maybe going to move out w/ help of another on this site….can’t remember any other names.) She’s stuck in my mind, hope things have improved.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Yeah, I have been thinking of her too. I think a couple of readers were able to connect with her.

      AS, let us know how you are doing or maybe one of the people on this site can let us know how AS is doing in some way.

  160. Woowee*

    Soooo…exciting news! I start my new job at a well respected company in February! I’m really excited. BUT i need advice. After accepting the job, I ran into one of the managers at the new company (who was part of the hiring process) at a conference and she was a little…gossipy. We were talking about the company generally….but then she said that some people think one of the directors is too strict and that a lot of people don’t like the ceo, but that she gets along well with the ceo. And then she talked a bit more about the CEO and the environment at the company. She has been at the company for some time and rose through the ranks herself. But..I guess I found it strange that she doesn’t even really know me and automatically went into detail about the personalities of people there. I dunno…it seemed more gossipy than “i’m trying to help you”. I had a job before where they promoted a gossipmonger to a management role and she was my arch nemesis–I absolutely hated her because she made the office environment so terrible!!

    So…my question is…what are your thoughts on the new colleague spilling the beans on the company drama/personalities and how do you handle gossipy colleagues? I’ll be working closely with her as I’ll be a manager too.

    1. Depends*

      Depends on what type of job it is and what field it is in. Like if it’s a hand on job in fixing cars is one thing, if it’s a research job at a university is another

    2. NicoleK*

      Depending on the position, you may be able to find a mentor or consultant to work with you. Another suggestion is to find allies in your new department.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      They won’t hire you if they think you can’t do it.
      So if they hire you, you probably will be able to finesse your way into a comfortable spot. It will take time, maybe.
      Yes, definitely read. If for no other reason it will help with the nervousness. It will make you feel like you are doing something/anything.
      The job I have now, I bought a used college textbook on one aspect of the job, just to get myself beefed up a little bit. I found it at a tag sale and paid $2. It’s amazing what you can do on the cheap.

  162. Spunky Brewster*

    Came here to vent. I’m working on a project with a bunch of deliverables due in a short time frame. This means putting in late nights and weekends until the project is completed. My supervisor is new to the company and wants us to track all sorts of information related to the deliverables. So instead of actually working on the deliverables this weekend, I spent hours and hours compiling information for purely administrative purposes that do not help anyone on my team actually complete our deliverables. It’s soul sucking. Plus this supervisor seems to be a micromanager. Ugh.

    1. F.M.*

      I feel your pain. I work for a boss who wants every employee (there are only 9 of us) to write down every task we do daily, the amount of time it takes to do the task, tally up at the end and turn it into him at the end of every day. The time it takes to keep track of that is time we could spend on our duties. But this is the only way he can know what we’ve done all day (ummmmmmm really?). And if your daily tally only totals 7.8 hours, you best have a reason for that other .2.

      FML. I’d rather live in a box under a bridge than live like this.

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