open thread – September 9-10, 2016

by Alison Green on September 9, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,215 comments }

{ 1,215 comments… read them below }

  1. ThatGirl*

    So here’s my funny work story for the week.

    My manager, K, works closely with the managing writer/content acquisition manager, T. T has been my boss in the past, she’s a good person but very loud, big personality, known for speaking her mind.

    K is getting remarried next week, about six years after her first husband died very suddenly. We’re all very happy for her and wanted to celebrate so my coworkers and I plotted a little surprise party and T was in charge of getting her down to the conference room.

    We’re all quietly waiting in the conference room yesterday when the door bursts open, we say “Surprise!” and K is laughing her ass off…

    Because T went into the **wrong conference room** first, yelled SURPRISE! without looking at who was in there, and left everyone wide-eyed and staring at her. (Did I mention that T booked the correct conference room in the first place?) She then booked it out of there with K trailing behind her amused and confused.

    This was a very T thing to do.

      2. ThatGirl*

        They were VERY surprised. She interrupted a high-level IT meeting. Thankfully they also thought it was hilarious.

      3. LBK*

        My thought exactly!

        Some part of me now wants to run around the office on a boring Friday yelling “SURPRISE!” into random meetings. Perhaps while wearing a cape, like some sort of superhero/villain.

  2. BurntOutFrustratedKitty*

    I’m burnt out from ten years of Application and IT support in corporate finance. I know I need to move on from this job but How do I figure out what to do next when I want to burn my computer?

    BurntOutFrustratedKitty

      1. BurntOutFrustratedKitty*

        Hi,

        I have been working in this same team and area for so long that I think if I’ve saturated my skillset. I feel stuck in a rut. So really not sure if best to same in that industry or try different. If I move out I’ll definitely need retraining.

        BurntOutFrustratedKitty

    2. Prismatic Professional*

      There is a website called myskillsmyfuture.org where you can put in your current job and it will find careers with similar skill sets. There is another website called mynextmove.org that has an option to evaluate interests and then match you with careers. Depending on your educational background, some universities’ have career services centers that work with alumni and you could do career exploration with an actual person for free. :-)

      2. Anon13*

        Not the OP, but thanks for the website suggestions! I have felt very trapped in my current line of work – hopefully these sites will help me out!

      5. Elizabeth West*

        Hahaha, I clicked :D on writing, proofreading, and editing and :( on all the rest! Bricklaying!? Really? how did it come up with THAT!?

        The Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook Handbook has a bunch of info on different careers–training, projected future of, etc. http://www.bls.gov/ooh/

      6. Kore*

        Not OP but as someone that’s in her 20s, out of school, working, and still wondering what she wants to be when she grows up, I thank you.

    3. Camellia*

      Come over to insurance. Finance and insurance are both considered ‘traditional’ areas and are often linked together in dropdowns in the ‘refine your search’ criteria on job sites, etc. Your skills should be very transferable.

      Also, if you haven’t searched for a job in ten years, please know that I have found the ‘2 page’ rule for resumes does not seem apply to IT. When the company for which I had worked for 25+ years was bought and I was targeted for the third round of layoffs, I followed all of Alison’s advice on creating the perfect resume. I did this by creating an outline of all my skills, experience, and achievements, which ended up being eight pages long. I then winnowed it down to two pages and posted it on popular job sites. The first call I got was from a recruiter and the first thing he said was that my resume was “a little thin”. I told him about the expanded outline and he asked me to send it to him. His immediate response was that it was “much better”, and two phone interviews later I had another job. I have since successfully used this expanded version to obtain my next two jobs, and have been at my current employer for six years and counting.

      1. BurntOutFrustratedKitty*

        Hi,

        I love the problem solving, the project work of collating the information on how to troubleshoot the applications and consolidate into a url knowledge base system. Also training people on how to support the applications as well as give solutions to reduce manual intervention where possible

  3. Adjustment Bureau*

    Has anyone ever gone from a stressful, all consuming 24/7 job to a non-stressful, hourly one?

    After college I found a job. It was salaried. It was expected that you would been in the office for 9-10 hours a day during the week and a 60 hour week was the unspoken minimum. There were lots off-site meetings and travel. Every employee had a company cell phone so they could answer calls, voicemails and emails 24/7. It was routine for managers or colleagues to call, email or text if you weren’t in the office. After work and on weekends and holidays everyone would log in remotely and do more work (even on days like Thanksgiving and Christmas). There were no true days off, getting time off was like pulling teeth unless it was literally life or death (and even then). Anyone on vacation would still be expected to check their email and voicemail. In the entire four years I worked there I had one day where I didn’t do any work from the office or log in remotely and didn’t look at my email or voicemail. It was the day I went to the funeral of my cousin and his wife’s stillborn baby. Everyone worked when they got sick and if you had an appointment for something like the dentist it was expected you would work before and after the appointment. Morale was so low and turnover was high. My commute was at least an hour and a half each way or longer depending on traffic.

    I left after four years because I was burned-out out. My new job is hourly. It’s Monday to Friday and the work day begins at 8:30 A.M. and ends at 4:00 P.M. with lunch from 12:00-12:30. Everyone (management included) is out the second the clock hits 4:00. There is no coming in early, staying late or working through lunch. The office is not open on weekends or holidays and closes from Dec 24-Jan 2 plus any weekends around it. There are no company cell phones for anyone and no one has access to email or voice mail outside of the office (management included). Management or not, no one from work will ever contact you outside of work hours or on your time off. It is not possible to do the work from anywhere outside the office and there is no working from home for anyone. There is no travel or off-site meetings and during work hours you are expected to be in the office working. You have paid time off that you are forced to use (and by forced I mean you can’t carry it over to the next year and if they see you are not taking it they will ask you about it) and if you have something like a dentist appointment you take the whole day off, there is no flex time. There is paid sick time and no one is allowed to come in sick (I found out when I came in with a cold and was gently sent home with pay until I was better). Morale is high and the job is stable. People stay for years (decades) and the turnover is low (the last person hired before me was three years ago). I’m told things have always been done this way. The office is right by a train station and instead of a commute I have a short, non stressful train ride. I leave home for work at 7:45 and am home by 4:45.

    It’s not that I don’t like it but it is so different than what I am used to. I am sleeping at least eight hours a night now and have time to eat properly every day. It’s only been a month but its been a big change. Every day when I’m at home I’ll get a sudden urge to check my work email or do some work and then I remember that I can’t even if I wanted to. I constantly feel like I am being lazy and unproductive during non-work hours. And even though everyone including management does it, it feels weird to run out the second the clock hits 4:00. If anyone has made a change like mine I would appreciate hearing about how long it took you to adjust and get used to it.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I haven’t done this exactly but I have changed jobs rather dramatically from newspaper nights-and-weekends culture to a more traditional corporate office.

      It is an adjustment. It sounds like you are already healthier and less stressed, but your brain is still expecting high-stress environment sometimes — it’s on alert.

      You are not lazy. Your old job sounds exhausting with a terrible work-life balance, and now you have an excellent one. It will take some time, but that’s OK. Try to appreciate it. If you have any projects you’ve always wanted to do, now might be a good time – take a fitness class, try pottery, play Pokemon Go, start a Netflix series. Something that engages your body or your brain.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, I haven’t done this exactly either but I did move from a job that was supposed to be “leave it at the office” and yet was constantly stressing me out and overloading me, to a job that is much more realistic about when we do need to do extra work and otherwise respects work-life balance, and it still weirds me out that I can take a vacation and no one texts me to ask where certain files are, or complains when I am sick for more than two days in a row. And I still feel incredibly guilty when I push back on a request or ask to delay it because I have other priorities even though my boss has told me point blank she wants me to be able to be honest with her about workload and trust me to manage my own schedule.

      2. Not the Droid You are Looking For*

        This was the key to making the adjustment for me. I signed up for a six-day per week boot camp that was pretty regimented.

        I left work, drove to the gym, worked out for an hour, then went home to deal with dinner etc. It kept me active in my off hours, which helped me get over the “why am I not working” hump.

    2. jm*

      I say this in the most gentle, kind way possible: I suspect you didn’t have much of a life outside of work at your former job. Maybe it’s time to reignite your personal life. Get a hobby, find some great books to read, check out some new restaurants, adopt a pet, start a garden, whatever will make you excited to go home and be away from work. I hope this helps you to adjust to your new schedule and lifestyle. Because before, it sounds like work was your life.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yep, this links nicely with what I was saying — time to find a life. I did have a hard time doing that when I suddenly had my nights and weekends free.

      2. J*

        Yup. Get a life, in the nicest possible way.

        My personal favorites: knitting and triathlon. Especially tri even if you’re a non-runner.

      3. Beezus*

        This! My personal favorite was joining a kickboxing class at my gym. It gave my body a way of dealing with all those pent-up stress response hormones.

        Congrats on finding something sane. Enjoy it, don’t let yourself feel lazy or like you don’t deserve it.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      I underwent that transition, and it was weird for me, too. I never adjusted to it. In fact, even though I technically couldn’t be overworked without being overpaid, I fought to have my boss change me from non-exempt to exempt so that I wouldn’t have to keep track of my hours and could actually work more and check email from home without having to log time worked. That’s probably not what you wanted to hear, but that was my experience.

    5. C Average*

      I just made a similar change, though in my case there was a year of not working in between, so the transition wasn’t so abrupt. (By “not working” I mean writing a first draft of a novel and being a full-time stepmother and doing some freelance gigs, so I wasn’t entirely slacking off, but I didn’t go straight from one job to the other.)

      Like you, I was in a 24/7 gig. I logged on to deal with a work crisis the morning of my wedding. I spent my fortieth birthday not with my family, but dealing with a product launch in Tokyo. I slept with my phone under my pillow, and checked my email at all hours of the day and night. I was never really off the clock.

      Now I work an hourly job at a specialty fabric store. I show up when I’m scheduled and leave when I’m supposed to leave. No work phone, no work email, no off-the-clock stress and worry. It’s rather amazing. I love it.

      I think work stress is like chronic pain. After a while, it becomes your version of normal, something you factor in to the other aspects of your life. Only when it’s absent do you notice how much space it took up in your life and how much effect it had on your mental and physical health.

    6. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Sound like you just joined my company! I did a similar transition almost 4 years ago and it was a shock to the system for about a month. After that you give yourself a high-five, do a little booty shake, and enjoy. When the only professional environment you have ever known is high pressure, asinine hours, and expect you to thank them for the drudgery your perception can easily get skewed. The thing to remember is that the norm probably lies somewhere in between the two and thank your lucky starts that you found the long end of the stick.

    7. EA*

      I made a similar transition. From admin in a law firm with constant stress and email at night, to a more 9-5 job in a different industry. I struggled with what to do in my free time. I have taken up some hobbies (yoga and cooking elaborate/pretentious meals (try not to mock me too hard for the last one). I have also focused a lot on professional development. I get tuition reimbursement so I took a class at a local university.

      I don’t think you are lazy at all, I just think you have to figure out how to fill the time in a way that is meaningful to you. Some people like to just watch TV after work, but it seems like something to make you feel productive would make you happier.

      1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

        ” cooking elaborate/pretentious meals” is one of the things I loved most about having an hourly job with no overtime or ability to work from home, so you’ll get no mocking from me. :) In my case, I also took up baking and running 5K/obstacle course races.

    8. hbc*

      I’d give the “leaving at 4” thing another couple of months to get used to. Maybe one month recovery for every year you were trained into the old pattern.

      But consider if there’s something productive *for yourself* you want to do now that your evenings are free. Volunteering a couple of days a week? Book club? Sports team? Learn a language? I understand not wanting to take on anything big right away since you’re probably still enjoying the big exhale, but if you’ve got extra time now that’s not sleeping and eating properly, think of how you’d want to look back on this time in a year. “I’ll be glad I did whatever the heck felt good at the moment” is as reasonable an answer as “learned to crochet” or “read 30 books.”

      And congrats on the awesome job change!

      1. Clea*

        I love that way of framing it! I’ve put your last paragraph to remind me that self-care is important, and doesn’t always have to ‘productive’ or a hobby with a future trajectory. Thanks!

    9. MissDisplaced*

      I mean, I like the hours part… but it seems they could perhaps be a tad more flexible about things like routine dentist/doctor appointments where you really don’t need a whole day. What if you had a long-term treatment for something that didn’t impair you and you HAD to use a whole day each time? (such as braces or regular blood work something)
      I imagine you must feel like you’ve stepped into Bizzaro World. I too would find it hard to not stay an extra 1/2 or hour occasionally to just finish something up (I’m that way). But You will adjust. You will.

      1. Ellie H.*

        That strikes me as super weird. I would hate it if I had to take the whole day off if I had to come in late for an 8:30am doctor’s appointment or something. It would be really disruptive to work. Also, what if you don’t have enough sick time but need to have your teeth cleaned or something? (unless there is unlimited sick/PTO) I feel like I would end up avoiding making appointments until I had “saved up” a bunch of other stuff I needed to take care of and it would be a pain.

      2. Adjustment Bureau*

        I thought the whole day off thing was weird too. But there is no cap on sick days because as I learned if you show up sick you will be sent home. But all sick time is paid and no one says anything about you using it. Now if you were taking every Friday or Monday or takings months at a time they would ask, but the way the culture is heterogeneous anyone who was immature and abused this wouldn’t last very long here anyway. They also aren’t stingy with vacation days here so unless you had a long term issue (which would be FMLA anyways) your days wouldn’t disappear because of appointments. So it does work out. I’m still getting used to it.

    10. Akcipitrokulo*

      Not quite the same – but lastjob was a very stressful and unprofessional environment.

      On the financial side, from not having money in my account on payday and being told “Oh, CEO might not have been to the bank yet…” – first time I’d ever worked where they didn’t have BACS set up! – to the landlord of the offices realising we were leaving as we carried our PCs out to the CEO’s waiting car… and a much longer story about the next office rental…

      And on the organisational side, we had “David”, the dev manager, and “Steve” who was both testing manager and sales manager.

      When Steve was being testing manager, David was his boss.
      When Steve was being sales manager, he was David’s boss.

      I reported to both of them.

      They didn’t like each other.

      It was really quite dysfunctional. I was QA analyst, being given directly contradictory instructions by both of them, on one occasion being told by Steve, who said that he had discussed it with David, that I was to stop work immediately on X, only to have David ask me a week later why there was no further progress on X?

      Also assuming coding knowledge which I had been up front from the start I didn’t have – and on which they agreed to provide training when I accepted the job (which never happened), and making me feel stupid for not being able to do it.

      Then having whole team question my actions and competence every time it was sprint planning (a team of devs and one primarily sales person saying “why does it take that long – all you have to do is check it works, don’t you?!?!?”), bullying my estimates down so that I was stressing about meeting them (which was partly my fault as I didn’t push back enough, but when there is a room, including both of your direct managers telling you that you can’t possibly need that time to do it…)

      Then the time I had to leave because I got a phone call that my toddler had fallen and was on his way to A&E – and while not formally disciplined, was made plain that it was not expected.

      Then the only room to express breastmilk in being glass-fronted. Then being told I could use the toilets. (The landlord of building took pity on me and allowed me to get keys for an unoccupied office in the building.)

      Then after the first office move, being about 5 minutes from the train station. Train left at 1702. My hours were 0900-1700. I arrived each morning at 0845. Request to work from 0855-1655 so that I could get train (next was 40 minutes later and was the slow train so I got home over an hour later) was refused. No, there wasn’t any reason I had to be in office to cover until 5 – this was an IT department, and I was testing the product. No customer contact.

      The company moved office (see above note about longer story!) to central London. So that was a good reason to give to interviewers when they asked why I’d left! We were told about the move a month before; when I handed in my notice we agreed I’d leave on the moving day without having to work out full notice and have to have a few days in London.

      So from that to newjob. With Boss of Much Awesomeness. Who respected me. Who recognised that I do know what I’m doing. Who made it known when he was impressed with how quickly I got up to speed, and was appreciative of the work I did.

      And an IT director who values all of his staff and makes sure they know it.

      And a whole company based on appreciating staff.

      Yeah, it’s taken some time to get used to it.

      When we have planning meetings and strategy discussions and all of the people present assume I’m a professional and value my input.

      It still sometimes takes me by surprise! And yes, I still find myself getting stressed expecting oldjob things to happen, but newjob is working its way under my skin :-)

      1. Myrin*

        I’ve often heard people say that someone who was in an abusive relationship might feel uncomfortable or “wrong” at first when they enter a healthy relationship – I feel like this concept applies here as well.

        1. Akcipitrokulo*

          Yes, I think that could well apply.

          I’ve been here 2 1/2 years, and love it so much.

          Like when an hour before hometime the release I was expecting is delayed – saying to manager “there isn’t much I can start that I can get finished in an hour – OK if I head off and stay on tomorrow when we have the code?” and the response “yeah, makes sense, see you tomorrow!”.

          Or stressing about being late when public transport was shit, and getting sympathy from management about how bad the journey was instead of hassle for timekeeping.

          Which all leads to things like me and my colleague’s hanging about for a couple of hours one friday after everyone else was gone “just to make sure that last bit goes through OK…” without thinking about it.

      2. Anon today*

        Yeah, did that. Worked at a place forever and moved up to high level. On all the time, traveled a lot, checked email before bed, when I got up etc.. I was actually okay with it, came with the territory. Then became geographically undesirable and was let go (in a very gentlemanly way, so no issue there). Consulting now, about 25 hours a week and even aside from the reduced hours and off peak commute, the client is way lower key. I don’t have to worry about bus dev, at least for the moment, because this client is regular. Now I have anxiety about not having anxiety. Still check my email compulsively although it’s just not that interesting. Agree with the advice to find some hobbies, start reading, cooking, whatever. I’m planning to work in a bit of volunteer work that will hopefully lead to a new direction.

    12. Tax Accountant*

      I made a similar change in January. It took me six solid months to get used to it and then another couple months after that to truly get into the swing of enjoying things after the initial shock of “this is so different and I’m not sure I like it” wore off. I still have pangs of anxiety about some things, but that is slowly going away too. I finally got work email back on my phone, but now it is a convenience rather than a burden and I rarely check it.

      At first I really struggled because I felt like some kind of a failure who couldn’t make it at my old job. I felt like I had let down feminism as a whole because I couldn’t force myself to work 70 hour weeks and take care of a kid at the same time. But now? I realize that kind of thinking is insane. My new job is amazing. Skipping through fields of flowers, twirling around in a big floofy dress, AMAZING. I can eat dinner with my family. I can get sick without panicking about my billable hours. I can spend time with my friends. I am surrounded by people who work to live, rather than my old coworkers who lived to work.

    13. Anon Accountant*

      Take a class in painting, sculpting, take up bicycling, volunteer, join a bowling league and enjoy your new time to yourself. Your last job sounds terrible.

    14. SeekingBetter*

      I agree with many of the other commenters that you might need to find something productive to do to fill your off-work time. I highly suggest getting involved in volunteer work, whether it be one time or on-going basis opportunity.

    15. Photoshop Til I Drop*

      This happened to me.The extra time let me finally eat nutritious food, exercise, and sleep properly. This caused me to lose weight and my energy levels to sky rocket, so I felt even more like I was bouncing off the walls in my free time.

      IMO you need a bit of time to deprogram your brain so that you no longer feel guilt and obligation over your spare time. Once you get over that mental hurdle and realize that it’s normal and healthy to have a work-life balance, your hobbies and interests outside of work will slowly ramp up until you no longer feel like you’re twisting in the wind. Overall, it took me about 9-10 months to feel “normal” again.

    16. Faith*

      Sounds like an experience someone would have going from a public accounting or Big Law firm to working for the government agency. You will get used to it. If you give it your 100% between 8:30 – 4:00, and then you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing. Time to find some hobbies and enjoy a nice work-life balance.

    18. TootsNYC*

      boy, I bet you feel disoriented!

      I’m having a small adjustment to “no evening hours” at my job, and that’s weird.

      So I would imagine it’s harder for you.

    19. Golden Lioness*

      Enjoy it! That sounds like a great job to me! (of course it all depends on what your goals are)

    20. Rebecca Too*

      I did this, too! I’ve been out of my former very stressful job for a while now. I had such a hard time adjusting to my current M-F 8:30-5 schedule, but now that I can actually plan on having two days off in a row, I’ve been able to go away for weekends for a change (at last job, it was more like “what’s a weekend??”) and it’s been great. Additionally, not being a complete basket/stress case has improved my health without me even trying. Since I’m not chain-swallowing junk food to stave off the stress, I’ve lost 8 lbs in 4 months with absolutely no effort on my part! I don’t crave the sweets and the junk food anymore, so I don’t eat it. I love having my evenings off to cook myself (and my boyfriend) really good meals. Basically, just knowing that I can count on having time off without being made to feel guilty (or dreading the return to work so much that it killed any time off that I took) makes it all worthwhile. I took a bit of a pay cut, but I have zero regrets. Enjoy your time!!! Trust me, you earned it!

  4. Alis*

    I was hired last month at a university as a TA. The university will help pay for master’s degrees (I don’t have one). When is it too soon to ask about tuition reimbursement? I’m doing well in my job but it’s been less than a month.

    1. Sadsack*

      I wouldn’t wait, they are offering it, after all. Maybe you should tell your boss that you are interested in learning about this benefit.

    2. Audiophile*

      Congrats!

      Was there any information in your paperwork that gave a timeline? Most universities have a wait period of 6 months to 1 year of employment before they’ll provide assistance or reimbursement.

    4. Edith*

      Have you checked the employee handbook? I work at a graduate school and their tuition reimbursement policy is covered in the handbook.

      1. Pwyll*

        +1. Or check whatever system maintains your policies. The last few universities I was at even students could access the employee policies, and their tuition reimbursement plans were on the intranet.

    5. Seal*

      The university most likely has a policy on tuition reimbursement for its employees available on its website. At the public university where I work, employees are eligible for tuition reimbursement after 6 months of employment. We’re allowed to take up to 9 credits per semester at any college or university in our state’s system.

      1. Cordelia Naismith*

        Same here for staff members. I think the rules are different for grad students with assistantships, though.

    6. Tuckerman*

      Ask now! You could always phrase it like, I was wondering, where can I find more information on tuition reimbursement?
      Going back to school involves months of planning (transcripts, references, application), so better to get the ball rolling now.

      1. JMegan*

        Yes, this. If you’re looking at starting next September, that likely means you’ll need to apply in January, which means you’ll need to start getting all that paperwork in order now. It’s definitely not too early to start!

    8. TCO*

      Given that universities prize advanced degrees and many TAs are probably working towards them, I don’t think it would look bad at all to ask for more information now.

    9. zora.dee*

      I agree, ask now. But if you still are nervous it’s too soon, you could ask “Where can I find out more about the tuition reimbursement? I’d like to start planning for the future.” That will make it less seem like you are greedy and want money now and more responsible because you are planning ahead!

    10. Lemon Zinger*

      I work in higher ed. I applied for my graduate program two months after working there. Nobody batted an eye. Go for it!

  5. Good_Intentions*

    CEO is has a reputation for being “special”

    Yesterday, I met with the representative of a partner agency to my current employer—an out-of-state nonprofit focused on registering students to vote and making them aware of election laws to increase their civic engagement—and he referred to the CEO as being “special” with a slight eye roll and smirk.

    I don’t begrudge the partner for his comments, especially because the CEO needs to have the same information sent to him via two or three times, requests random phone call check-ins for information irrelevant to the specific person’s job duties, among other idiosyncrasies.

    The reason the partner’s comments and my own weird experiences are on my mind is because tomorrow morning I must spend two and a half hours speaking with and teaming up with him for an important meeting with about 20 university professors from across the state. I worry that in his need to raise money and bolster awareness of the program he will put his foot firmly in his mouth and leave me holding the bag.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on keeping calm? Saving face? Has anyone been in a similar situation?

    All comments are appreciated. Thanks!

    1. C Average*

      I tend to be a believer in forming independent judgments of the people around me.

      Here is what you know about these two people.

      Your CEO has some idiosyncrasies that you’ve thus far been able to deal with effectively. Maybe he’s “special.” (Eye roll.) Maybe he’s focused on other aspects of his job and isn’t a detail person with regard to documentation or the org chart. Try to keep an open mind at tomorrow’s event. Even if he is a clueless doofus, you’ll have a more successful event if the rapport between the two of you isn’t clouded by preemptive judgment.

      The person you met with yesterday is someone who makes snarky comments about people behind their backs. Maybe he thinks highly of you and wants you to go into tomorrow’s event forewarned and prepared. Maybe he has a bad history with the CEO. Maybe he is trying to bolster his own political capital by snarking on people higher than him on the food chain. In my experience, people who make snarky comments about colleagues and business acquaintances aren’t necessarily good allies.

      1. NW Mossy*

        +1

        When I took over managing my team from my predecessor, she told me point-blank “Fergus is going to be your biggest problem on the team. I rated him Needs Improvement last year and he’s not good at his job.” Turned out that Fergus’s “problem” was that to perform well, he needed a manager that believed he was capable and competent. He’s a solid performer for me and has expressed his appreciation for my management style, which is a nice win-win. Definitely a great lesson for me about not accepting another person’s value judgment as my own.

        1. Golden Lioness*

          Yes, good managers make a huge difference in people’s level of investment. Bad managers are the #1 reason people leave their jobs, isn’t it?

    2. Pinky*

      “the CEO needs to have the same information sent to him via two or three times, requests random phone call check-ins for information irrelevant to the specific person’s job duties.”

      That seems like pretty common executive behavior to me, sorry. I might describe it as “annoying” but it’s so common I would never think of it as “special.” My boss isn’t at that level, and even he doesn’t even necessarily remember what staff reporting to me do, exactly, and often asks Melba for random updates on things that are actually Roderick’s area. He just forgets.

    3. Bob Barker*

      I had a boss once who literally seemed unable to read. He was a senior sponsoring editor at a publishing house. He’d been a salesman before that, where I guess plowing through pages and pages of text is not as much of a thing, but. I resorted to reading him emails out loud, because he wouldn’t read them, or would claim to have read them and clearly not understood a single word. On the up side, I attended editorial meetings way above my pay grade, because I actually knew what was going on with any project, and he did not.

      I think it’s important not to indicate to your audience that you disapprove of him in any way (a whole room turning on a presenter can be pretty ugly), nor that you approve of him (because you don’t want his stink to rub off on you). He’ll do a thing, and you shouldn’t react to it — just go on with your work. Usually the audience figures out who is the one to turn to pretty quick, and figures out that you’ve got the dignity not to draw attention to any buffoonery that happens to break out in front of you.

      1. addlady*

        Was that frustrating? If it seemed to me that I was better able to make decisions better than the head boss, I would be mad that I weren’t paid like he was. No matter how illogical that feeling was.

        1. Good_Intentions*

          addlady:

          Forgive my ignorance, but I don’t really understand your comment.

          Would you mind terribly putting it in context for me?

          Thanks!

          1. addlady*

            darn! I mean, if I felt like I was effectively doing the job of my incompetent boss, I would want to be paid like him.

        2. Bob Barker*

          Was that frustrating? Not as frustrating as the time he cornered me in someone else’s office and tried to bully me into moving to his city to work in his local office (he’d been hired in an office 1500 miles away from mine). Not as frustrating as the time he told me to just fudge some numbers on a Profit & Loss report and we’d be fine.

          I hated that man with the power of a thousand Catherine wheels. But I noticed his unwillingess to read long before that point.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        A long time ago, I read that some Supreme Court Judges, like to be read to, because they do so. much. reading. It’s just easier to take in the material if someone reads it out loud. So reading out loud became a part of some people’s jobs.

        I do see that spending too much time inside one’s own head can make processing things much harder. If the person knows they have a problem, at least they admit it and try to find ways to work around the problem.

    4. Marisol*

      I may not be totally clear on what you’re asking but I think you want to know how to avoid looking foolish during your presentation to potential investors/partners.

      I haven’t been in this kind of situation, but I have spent lots of time performing on stage and watching/critiquing others on stage, and so I might have some useful insights.

      First, whenever people get up in front of others to speak or perform, they tend to automatically assume that the audience is against them and that they will be judged mercilessly. This is due in part to the instinct that prey animals have in response to a predator–in the wild, when an animal looks directly at you, it’s because it is tracking you in order to eat you–and also because being social animals, early humans’ survival was dependent on being accepted by their tribe, whereas being cast out spelled certain death. And that’s to say nothing of the early childhood conditioning an individual receives that could influence their reaction to being in front of people. So all in all, this fear is very ingrained.

      In my experience however, the people watching a performance are actually craving inspiration. They want to love you. This is why celebrities are such a big deal–they allow the public to project hopes and dreams onto them. It’s a primal instinct, probably having to do with the adoration a child feels for its parents, as well as a universal reaction to archetypes, and other stuff I can’t articulate. My point being that whoever you present to will not be a bunch of Simon Cowells looking to tear you apart. They’ll actually want you to do well. People who make presentations have a lot more support than they realize, at least until you give them a reason to feel otherwise. All you have to do is accept their goodwill.

      Beyond that, you have to give the group the right cues for how to respond. The colleague that said the thing about your CEO is a jerk, so ignore that and do not follow his lead. Do not telegraph to anyone in the room that you think the CEO is “special,” buffoonish, or anything like that. Do not try to set yourself apart from him with knowing glances to anyone in the room. When he speaks, look at him respectfully and give him your complete, even rapt, attention. People take their cues from the leader and you are one of the leaders in this scenario–I don’t care how learned or jaded these professors are, they are not immune to being manipulated. Demonstrate approval as much as you can by nodding your head, or with phrases like, “yes, excellent point, I was going to mention that but you beat me to it,” etc.

      If you need to do damage control about something CEO said, phrase in a way like, “just to expand on that point…” as opposed to something like, “what I think Bob is TRYING to say is…”

      If he’s a doofus, he’s a doofus and I don’t see how you can possibly change that. Prior to meeting with the professors, I assume you and he will go over talking points so if you can anticipate any mistakes he might make, you can try to go over them in advance. But once you’re in the room you have to accept him as he is and be gracious–if you don’t it *will* work against you. The others in the room, seeing your discomfort/disapproval, will not feel safe because their own fears of being judged/eaten/cast out will be triggered and that’s the time they’ll turn against you and will start judging you, a la Simon Cowell.

      So the only way to “save face” is to play along. The only exception to this would be if someone asks you a question that necessarily entails revealing the CEO bumbles–for example, he quotes the wrong figure and there is no way to go along with it without your organization losing credibility, so you have to correct him or acknowledge the screw up in some way–then do this matter-of-factly and do your best to tack on some positive attribute about him, viz, “yes, CEO can be absent-minded but the way he has brought this organization from a to b has been incredible…”

      I hope this makes sense and is not too philosophical or pretentious.

      1. Mallory Janis Ian*

        This all seems very helpful and insightful. My takeaway is that the OP is to radiate approval of the boss like Nancy Reagan, and to imagine an audience full of Paula Abduls.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If you can meet with him and make a list of key talking points before the meeting. Or maybe you can get lucky and he will answer an email from you. Try to have a little prep.

      Try to remember that it is his thing to raise money and awareness. If you do have to bat clean up, then just do what you can to salvage the situation.

      Sometimes less said is MORE. You might look better saying nothing than trying to say something. This is tough, because in the moment you have seconds to decide which route to go. My rule of thumb is hit the absolutely critical points. This can carry me, because I will ask myself “is this a point worth pursuing?”

      Another thing that has helped me, is deliberately decide NOT to wear the person’s emotions for him. Let’s say he flubs in a big way, tell yourself that it is not your embarrassment to wear. If you can discreetly pass a note, or make a gesture then go for it.

      Once you are through with the meeting, you can discuss any problems with him privately. Maybe you can send out an email correcting erroneous information.

      I wouldn’t give the “special” remark two minutes of thought. People are usually well aware of other people’s quirks and most people are savvy enough to realize we have to work with each other anyway, in spite of the quirks.

      My last tip is the toughest. We have a finite amount of energy. If we use up even as little as 10% of our energy wondering what others are thinking, that is still lost energy. Try to let go of what others maybe thinking and focus on the message for the program itself. A person’s sincerity comes across even if the message is not presented in the best manner. Be sincere, be genuine.

  6. Marie*

    I have a phone interview for an internal job on Monday and, while excited, I am also a little nervous. I feel like this position will be a move in the right direction, as far as getting out of admin support work and working toward my desired field (data science/business), but I worry about aiming for greener pastures that aren’t really green. What I mean by that is that in the past I’ve left jobs for a job that I perceive to be better, but once I’m there for a while the excitement of newness wears off as the realities of the job set in. I know a lot of this has to do with the type of work I’m currently doing, but clearly I haven’t been successful at determining what jobs are the best fit for me and I want my next move to be a better fit.

    At some point during the interview process, I’ll have to ask questions. I want to ask good questions but I’m not sure what I’m coming up with at the moment would give me the insight I need to determine if this job is really aligned with my long term professional goals.

    The job is as a Data Specialist. It seems entry level and from the job description and it seems like the focus of the job is database management. I’m okay with that but I am curious about what type of activities I’d be doing day to day. Will I just be doing a lot of data entry or will I have the opportunity to make meaningful contributions to the team? What would those types of contributions look like? I don’t really know what else to ask. Are the questions I came up with too broad?

    1. Murphy*

      I think it’s OK to just ask “What will my day to day look like? Will I be working pretty autonomously, are there regular team meetings, etc?” or something like that. They should get the gist and answer your question.

      They also often add every possible job responsibility to job descriptions, so you can ask “What would be my top 3 duties/responsibilities?” and that should also answer how you’ll be spending the bulk of your time.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        “What will my average day look like?” has saved me.

        A good follow up is to rephrase as, “So, I will being doing X task. In a 40 hour week, what percentage of hours do you think I will be doing X?”

      2. Marie*

        The job description wasn’t incredibly detailed but I really like these questions , especially “What would be my top 3 duties/responsibilities?”. Thank you for the helpful suggestions!

    2. Government Worker*

      I’d ask as many detailed technical questions as you can think of, depending on how the conversation is going and what your own skills are. What database do they use? Do you need to know any SQL, programming, or script writing? What sort of reports would you be expected to generate from the database, and how (running pre-set reports, creating new reports using a user-friendly reporting tool, or coding/querying new reports using SQL or a programming language)? Will you be mainly working in one database, or in several systems? with Excel? with a statistics program? with visualization tools to make pretty reports?

      I’d also ask about the sources of data that go into the database(s) – if the data source is automatically connected to the database, data entry is going to be less of an issue, but if it’s something like paper forms that customers or users fill out, then you’re likely going to be entering a lot of data. Ask what is done with the data from the database(s) – who the end users are and how they use the data to make decisions. Also what proportion of the work is routine or recurring versus ad hoc requests and special projects – in my experience, the ad hoc requests and special projects where you get to talk a lot with the people making decisions using the data are where the meaningful contributions and skill development happen.

    3. CMT*

      If you want the job even if it is just doing data entry, I wouldn’t say “Will I just be doing a lot of data entry or will I have the opportunity to make meaningful contributions to the team?” verbatim. Maybe just ask some variation of the second half of that question, like “How does this position contribute to the team?”. But if you know you don’t want to do data entry, definitely try to find that out specifically.

  7. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday!

    I’m getting a lot of requests for interviews but now struggling to cover myself when I take time off. I’m worried about taking time since boss randomly stopped by my desk yesterday to ask if I was happy I took this job.

    I’m also getting requests with a pretty short turnaround time (1-2 days, as opposed to a week).

    I guess this is a good problem to have but it’s stressing me out.

    1. Nethwen*

      I’ve been there, complete with the, “Are you happy?” question. What boss in their right mind asks an employee that? If you have to ask, we aren’t close enough that I’ll tell you “no.”

      As for reducing the stress, I don’t have any real advice. Short turnaround times do make it harder. I think my stock answer to questions about all my time off or emotional state would be some version of, “I’m dealing with some things in my life that I can’t put on hold, but am working to get everything resolved as soon as possible.”

      2. College Career Counselor*

        FWIW, I’ve been known to give a big smile and a “so far, so good!” cheery response to questions about am I happy or do I like the job when actually I’m still working out how I feel about it (or if I don’t actually care for it). I realize that this doesn’t help the job-seeker who is actively looking to get out, but it can be useful to those who are trying to manage their reputation in a new/different gig.

      3. BusSys*

        I disagree. I’ve had bosses that I do work very well with and have good relationships with check in on me like this. Usually it follows noticing something like “being less smiley” (I’m a very boisterous, smiley person in general) and they want to help nip any problems in the bud for me. It’s a good chance to get candid about what would be nice to get off my plate or express why such and such project is at a frustrating point and is there anything we can do to mitigate that. Sometimes too it’s just them stepping back to assess if I’m happy with career trajectory/path and want more or less of certain types of work.

        1. Audiophile*

          I don’t know that friends or previous employers would describe me as “smiley”.

          I only started this job in mid summer, and it was a very rough start. Just a quick rundown:
          Boss was fired in my second week (I was away when this occurred but it was presented as boss quitting suddenly.) I shared at the time, with big boss, that I had concerns since ousted boss had shared them with big boss on her way out.

          Part of my job is being done by someone else with no clear timetable for that wrapping up.
          I’ve done more IT work than anything else and while I don’t mind helping out, there’s no dedicated IT to send people to.

          It’s improved slightly, but not enough for me to view it as a long term job that I’d like to stay in for 3-5 years.

          So long story short, I think she was hinting at these abscences.

          My concerns are still present and I don’t see them going away any time soon.

          1. BusSys*

            Sorry I had meant the quotes to indicate some trait about you that might tip someone off you’re not the usual you.

            It’s definitely rough starting a new job in all that churn. It could be she has noticed the absences, and/or maybe she’s wondering how you’re holding up with all that seems to have popped out of the woodwork.

            If you’re comfortable, it could be worth having a conversation about “so you know x,y,z that we’ve had to pick up since Jimmy left? What do you see happening with those? Any time frame for that change? ” particularly if it’s making your core goals a bit harder to squeeze in time for.

            1. Audiophile*

              I may ask how the hiring process for boss’s replacement is going. Since, the project I’m working will involve that person pretty significantly. And either it will become part of my job or big boss’s. Now that I think about it, big boss did mention the two of us splitting most of the duties, so I’d take that to mean there’s no immediate plan to replace boss.

    2. Good_Intentions*

      Audiophile:

      Congrats on the job interviews!

      Your resume must be pretty solid to have received so many invitations to come in with only 24 to 48 hours of notice. Well done!

      Regarding your concern, I agree that taking a lot of time off could be suspicious. Would it be possible to shift your schedule–come in an hour earlier/later, take a shorter lunch/work through it, use flex time for working hours over the weekend? I realize your company and position may not make those viable options, but they are worth considering and will reduce suspicions of your need to step out for personal matters.

      As an aside, good luck on the job search!!!

    3. Lily Rowan*

      Congrats to you! I am using this same concern to avoid even applying for jobs, which I know is No Good.

      For what it’s worth, I have had many follow-up doctor’s appointments clustered together that didn’t turn out to be anything at all, and I was sure my coworkers thought I was interviewing then!

      1. Audiophile*

        I would use the doctors appointments, except I’m pretty sure NewJob is aware I don’t have insurance anymore. There was a brief overlap with the severance package from my old job where I had insurance and did have appointments but that was a few months back.

          1. Audiophile*

            You’re right. And should I end up taking the day, that’s what I’ll say if I’m asked. Of course no one has asked in the previous instances that I’ve taken off since I started this job a few months ago, but that comment felt pretty pointed to me.

            1. Thinking out loud*

              I always prefer a vague truth, if it’s possible. I’d say, “I have an appointment, and I wasn’t able to schedule it outside of work hours.”

        2. EmmaLou*

          Side topic: If you are in the US, get insurance. We got slammed hard on our taxes for being unemployed and not carrying “our fair share” which we were stupid enough to not know was even a thing. We just avoided going to the doctor and then got fined for every month we didn’t have insurance anyway. Even though we weren’t using it and couldn’t afford to use it when we got it even with the “subsidy” cuts. We did apply for a hardship case but that was 8 months ago and we haven’t been able to get an answer since. Soooo don’t be like us.

          1. Audiophile*

            I’m sorry you got hit with penalties.

            I’ve been lucky enough to qualify for the exemption(s) in previous years.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Same here–this month so far has been lousy with stuff like that for me. I’m sure my boss thinks I’m trying to skip out (though I doubt she’d be disappointed). I wish it were interviews and not doctor/dental appointments.

    4. Marisol*

      1) is it not possible to request interviews before or after the work day? Or during lunch?

      2) is it not possible to explain to your boss what concerns you have about your job, since he asked? It sounds like he really wanted to know, and since he sounds already clued in to your unhappiness, being honest seems less suspicious than lying and saying, “yeah, everything’s great!” when you’re actually giving off an unhappy vibe (if you are). An employee who wants to actively address a problem looks like someone who wants to stay with their employer.

    5. Golden Lioness*

      Congrats and good luck with your interviews! just remain professional. Nothing you can do about what other people think or do. I would take that as a good sign that you’re valued. If he wanted you to leave he wouldn’t ask. It sounds like he’s asking because they’re afraid to lose you.

  8. Callietwo*

    I interviewed for a senior position in my company this week. Boss says I’ll be informed of their decision on who they’ll choose either today or tomorrow.
    I sent all in the hiring committee individualized and REALLY great thank you notes. (I’ve shared them with a couple of trusted coworkers who all said they were impressive, thanks to all the research done here at AAM and the like- thanks Alison & everyone!)
    She responded today with a note that says THANK YOU.. etc etc.. we’ll talk today or Monday about next steps.”
    I’m on pins on needles… please don’t make me wait all weekend!
    Next steps- how do I read that? We already discussed how I would handle not getting the position, should they choose one of the other (several) applicants, so would there be next steps if they didn’t chose me? Shoot. I’m being impatient, I know. But I’m stressing right now!

    1. Dangerfield*

      Don’t read anything into it. Assume it’s a quick email she’s fired off without thinking about her wording!

      I hope it’s today rather than Monday, and good luck.

    2. Jadelyn*

      As far as next steps, it’s a really common wording for “We’re not committing to anything with anyone right now”. As in, “next steps” can mean “we will call to give you the TBNT (thanks but no thanks) speech” – it doesn’t always refer to next steps on your part, it can be referring to the next steps we need to take on the hiring end.

      On that note, though, as far as next steps for you if you don’t get the job. Since it’s internal, if you’re passed over for it, this is a great opportunity to open (or if you’ve already talked about it, further) a discussion with your manager on your aspirations within the organization and what you would need to do in order to be a stronger contender for roles at that level in the future. You might find you can take occasional stretch assignments to develop your skills in whatever you’re weaker on, or it might take the form of a mentorship with someone at that level or above, or the organization might help you find (and potentially could help pay for) trainings or professional certifications that would help you develop in that direction. Those are all things we’ve done at my org when an employee applies for something they’re either not or just not quite qualified for.

    3. Gaia*

      I hope it is today rather than Monday. I always hated waiting over the weekends. But as Alison has said, try to put it out of your mind. Easier said than done, but it will help if you can.

      Regarding “next steps” there is nothing to read there. I use that language all the time and it literally just means “either we’ll offer, or we’ll schedule another interview, or we’ll tell you thanks but no thanks and good luck.” I hope you get good news :)

      1. Golden Lioness*

        This!
        Have a celebratory drink. You were already successful in making it that far and have got good feedback.

  9. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    So I think I’m about to turn down a big, big promotion. It’s just not the right fit, and I’d rather see how my current work plays out and what it can turn into. But yikes, it feels a little crazy to turn down a huge opportunity.

    1. Nethwen*

      Do what’s right for you. I’ve taken promotions I immediately regretted and hope I’m smart enough not to do that again. Quality of life doesn’t just mean more prestige and more money.

      1. No sinus pressure today*

        At my grandfather’s funeral I learned that he’d had a situation like this during his career. He was appointed a senior official of some sort in his state’s health department; he took the job, realized he didn’t like it, and went back to his previous position (also in the state health department). My aunt said that was one of the most important lessons she learned from him: accepting a promotion for the sake of the prestige (or what-have-you) isn’t worth it if you don’t want the job.

        So…congratulations on being impressive, and it’s completely reasonable to turn down a job that doesn’t seem right for you.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      Good vibes, Victoria! I did that a couple of years ago (though more from a very junior to a slightly-less-junior role!) and it turned out to be absolutely the right decision. The person who took the promotion role is still in it, while I ended up vaulting to an even bigger role and having the opportunity to work on a huge, fascinating, growth-supporting project the following year. It’s hard to deal with the what-ifs, but sometimes the right opportunity is a little further down the line!

    4. Golden Lioness*

      Congrats! and it’s not crazy. it’s good to recognize it’s not a good fit. You don’t want to be miserable at work every day!

  10. Blue Anne*

    Wrapping up the job hunt after walking out on my toxic job a month ago… I negotiated an offer for the first time, asking them to increase the hourly rate a couple bucks, and I’m waiting for a call back today. Urrrghhh. I’m so nervous…

    3. Bad Candidate*

      Good luck! I admire your courage for walking out of OldJob, I daydream about that daily. Er, hourly.

      1. Blue Anne*

        Thanks!

        I stopped by there briefly to pick up my last paycheck and, luckily, the bosses weren’t around. My colleagues said the bosses have been heavily implying that I had a mental breakdown and that’s why I left. They also didn’t tell my colleagues that I had quit for a full week after – everyone thought I just had a few days off. Charming! Definitely made the right decision…

        1. Bad Candidate*

          Oh for crying out loud. OK my job isn’t THAT bad. Management lies, but not like that. They are much more subtle. Glad you got out.

  11. Nervous Accountant*

    I touched on this a few weeks ago….we’re moving office in a few weeks and I’m just a little anxious about it. Not far, about 6 blocks over. I’m not too thrilled with change. I’m mostly worried about the seating arrangements: 1. I dont’ want to be isolated/in a corner/to the side. but I also don’t want to sit next to creepy coworker and other coworker. Add to that, most people I sit near run very cold, and I run really hot. The other side of the row is cooler and chillier, and I would have loved to sit there but alas m yrequest was turned down. I would like to talk to my boss, but I know I cannot bring up all of these items all at once. I’m trying to decide what’s the most important to myself and how to bring it up to my boss (during the move? after? before?)

    1. Sadsack*

      I’d bring up the temperature issue now, and not mention the coworker issues. Maybe a reassignment due to the temperature issue will solve your problems.

      1. Jaydee*

        First, figure out which issues are the most important to you and then figure out which will be the most relevant to your boss, as those may not be the same thing. Because your boss probably isn’t going to let you have your pick of seats just because seat number 4 from the left meets all your criteria (not next to creepy coworker and other coworker, not isolated, and near the warm people). But you might be able to negotiate a move that addresses the most important factor to you in a way that your boss can appreciate as relevant to your comfort, morale, and productivity.

    2. AMT 2*

      I’d think if you want any chance at having input into your seating arrangement you would need to do it before – from what I’ve been through usually seating/offices is mapped out before the move, to try and get it changed after will be a lot harder and more disruptive, especially as everyone is trying to settle in.

      1. Kfland*

        I just went through this! I’d say definitely before, since by the time all the stuff was moved the seats likely will already have been designated (so the movers know what files to put where). I had a preference to sit by a wall, so I just asked my boss if it would be possible to share my seating preference with him and he said of course. I ended up where I wanted to be! I’m not sure if anyone else said anything, so it worked out in my favor.

      2. Golden Lioness*

        Another vote for before! I’ve been through this and it sucks! Hope you get a good situation!

    3. JustaTech*

      Before! Like Sadsack says I’d stick with the temperature issue, but it is much, much easier to re-arrange desks before anyone is actually sitting in them.
      Last time my office re-organized desks I had to tell my boss point blank that I could not sit next to [co-worker] without him driving me insane and ruining our already-precarious working relationship. It is *much* easier to say that when it’s still just a map and you don’t sit next to someone for a day and then move.

    4. CMT*

      Good luck! Hopefully you’ll feel better once you find out for sure what the arrangements will be. I know that I mostly get anxious over uncertainty. Also, your situation totally sounds like an LSAT logic game :-) Given these constraints, which desk will Nervous Accountant have?

    5. NW Mossy*

      My team just moved spaces due to a remodel, and temperature has been an issue as we figure out what normally happens and how best to deal with it – this is pretty expected, even for a move like ours where we moved up one floor in the same building.

      Since you haven’t yet moved, I’d recommend treading a bit lightly because you don’t know for sure yet exactly how you’ll feel when you’re in the space. Just about everyone on my team has said that some problems they anticipated didn’t materialize (such as noise being less than expected) and some they didn’t emerged. Asking for a change right now before you have actually worked in the space might end up being counterproductive because you’re trying to solve anticipated problems rather than actual ones. Even something like sitting next to Coworker X might be less of an issue than it seems because the physical configuration of the space could turn out to be more protective than you anticipate.

      What you can certainly do now, though, is open the channel with your boss and say “Our move is coming up and I have some concerns about how it will impact me. I’m going to try it out and see how it works, but I just wanted to let you know that I may revisit this if things aren’t working well and I need your help to get resolution.”

  12. SupercaliAnon*

    Hi everyone! I have run into a problem with cover letters. I know they are supposed to be enthusiastic and show your interest in the job. However, that is very difficult when I am not enthusiastic about anything. I am in one of my depressive episodes when everything is meh (yes, I am working with a professional address this). I have tried using the, “how would you talk to a friend about how excited you are about this opportunity” method. And I just blank. I don’t feel any excitement, and it is not the job, it is me. Do you have any suggestions? I’d really appreciate it.

    1. matcha123*

      Unfortunately, I have none. I am exactly the same.
      I don’t get excited talking to people about applying for jobs. I’m not even enthusiastic to apply, but I know that “Whatever, pay me. I don’t do drama.” isn’t the best cover letter fodder. Will wait to see what advice others have!

      1. HopefullyHelpful*

        Not sure if this will be helpful to you — suggest sticking to factual questions, i.e. what characteristics would make a teapot maker a good one?, not an emotional question, e.g. “how would you talk to a friend…”

        Then take the answer (e.g. A skill or B expertise) and, if it applies to you, write it in an active form: “In my five years as a spout designer, I did (X accomplishment) and (Y accomplishment), using (A skill) and (B expertise). I’m eager to use this experience/use these skills to (do C) and (accomplish D) as a teapot maker for your company.”

      2. Christopher Tracy*

        I would hire you in a second – you’d be surprised how rare the “no drama” thing is.

    2. Nethwen*

      This is only one hiring manager’s opinion…

      Enthusiastic doesn’t have to mean jumping for joy. The best cover letters I have received from applicants were the ones that took three or four main points from the job description and specifically showed how their experience/skills/education would help them fulfill those job duties. For example, for a clerical customer service position, one applicant wrote about his experience as waitstaff and how it helped him develop skills to diffuse the situation when a customer is angry.

      Honestly, if a cover letter includes words like “passion” or “excited,” I think the applicant is trying to tick a box. Given the choice, most people would rather be independently wealthy than to work to survive, so while people may enjoy what they do, I think very few actually do a happy dance at the thought of working. I don’t need a cover letter to include emotional hyperbole in order to convince me of the applicant’s potential fit. Then again, I also run from any workplace culture that describes itself as “like family,” so your mileage may vary.

      1. SupercaliAnon*

        My concern with that is it ending up as a repeat of my resume. I’m pretty early in my career, so the vast majority, if not all of my relevant experience is on resume.

        1. TL -*

          but surely specific examples aren’t? Like, you might have “Cheesecake Factory – Server” on your resume but in your cover letter, you can talk about how you developed a group of regulars from the local university who came every Friday specifically to sit in your section because you were so good at cultivating relationships with all types of people.

          1. SupercaliAnon*

            But isn’t that an accomplishment? I would put that on my resume – “developed relationships with X regulars.” I’ve been reading Alison’s posts about how to write an accomplishment centric resume rather than just job duties.

            1. TL -*

              You could but maybe your resume was focused on other accomplishments and you want to address that in your cover letter instead
              Like: maybe you completely revamped the table numbering system and came up with a new code for orders that saved oodles of time and that’s focused on in your resume. But the job you’re applying for also mentions soft skills as being important, so you address that in your cover letter.

              Or maybe you’re applying for a job being a server in the university, so even though it’s in your resume as developed relationships with regulars, you want to talk a little in your resume about how you developed relationships specifically with the clientele you’d be serving in the university.

    3. JaneB*

      Much empathy – it’s so hard when the world is entirely covered in grey cotton wool…

      What about Pretending you are helping a friend whose Cv just happens to look the same as your to write THEIR cover letter – why might they, given their cv, be keen on the job? See it as a logical progression in their career, or a chance to use different skills? Why would they be able to do it well?

    4. hbc*

      Can you imagine how Not-Meh You would feel about this? Or how a colleague with your background would respond? Why would someone else be enthusiastic about this job?

      But really, I would focus on the “interest” part rather than the “enthusiastic” part. There’s some reason that you applied for this job. Even if it’s as simple as being a good match for your skills and abilities, that’s something you can work with.

    5. JustaTech*

      A trick I’ve used to get myself going is to approach the cover letter like a school essay. Thesis (or hypothesis, if you’re science minded): I have the skills for this job and I would do it well. Evidence 1, evidence 2, evidence 3, conclusion.
      It doesn’t necessarily make for an exciting letter, but it gives you some emotional distance if you find the “meh” leaking over. (It’s also super helpful if you hate to feel like you are ‘selling yourself’.)

    6. Jadelyn*

      Enthusiastic doesn’t have to mean hyper and bubbly – tbh that kind of thing is more cringe-making than helpful from the other side. Reword that in your head to “interested” – how would you talk to a friend about how interested you are in this position? Don’t worry too much about repeating your resume, just pull a couple of the bullet points you want the employer to focus on most and elaborate on them a little bit. Like, my cover letters would emphasize the data analysis and IT aspects of my job even though I do more recruiting and administrative work currently, because that’s where I want to go and where my strengths lie, so I’d want an employer to go into my resume with the data-work side of my experience foremost in their mind so that they can hopefully see me as “an HRIS guru who also does admin support and recruiting” rather than “an admin and recruiting support person who also does HRIS stuff.” It’s a way to preemptively shine the spotlight on the best parts of your resume.

      2. Cordelia Naismith*

        I’d want an employer to go into my resume with the data-work side of my experience foremost in their mind so that they can hopefully see me as “an HRIS guru who also does admin support and recruiting” rather than “an admin and recruiting support person who also does HRIS stuff.”

        I like this idea — the cover letter presents the lens through which the hiring manager should view your resume.

    7. Jaydee*

      I don’t think a cover letter needs to be enthusiastic in the excited, “rah rah – yay Assistant Coordinator of Teapot Logistics at Teapots International, Inc.!!!” sort of way. And I know how hard it can be to even remember what interest and enthusiasm feel like when you are really depressed. I think sometimes when you can’t really trust your emotional reactions to be based on an accurate perception of the world around you, that you have to get really factual and objective and then just put the emotion words in there.
      Facts: I have five years of experience in teapot logistics at Teapots R Us. During that time, I worked on changing the process we used to source specialty dark chocolates for handles and spouts. As a result we were able to process those orders on average two days faster than previously (or average order processing went from 7-10 business days to 5-8 business days. We saw a 10% increase in orders for teapots with dark chocolate handles and spouts the following year.
      Now, with feeling: During my time as a logistics associate at Teapots R Us, I was in charge of changing how we sourced specialty dark chocolates for handles and spouts. I enjoyed the challenge of this project and was able to complete it successfully, resulting in a two day decrease in processing times for those orders and a 10% increase in those orders over the following year. I am excited about the opportunity to use my experience to help Teapots International Inc. find similar ways to improve the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of its teapot production facilities.

    8. Cordelia Naismith*

      My suggestion is don’t talk about your enthusiasm for the job in your cover letter — talk about your qualifications for the job instead. Why would you be good at this job? What relevant experience do you have? That’s something you can talk about sincerely and honestly without having to feel enthusiastic about it.

      1. Cordelia Naismith*

        And you can include experience in your cover letter that you wouldn’t necessarily include on a resume. Personality traits, hobbies, whatever — anything that might contribute to why you would be good at the job but that you wouldn’t put on the resume.

    9. lawsuited*

      Yeah, I really don’t think a cover letter is supposed to be highly emotive – it’s supposed to logically point out connected between your experience and transferrable skills and the job. Honestly, in my experience, the process of writing a cover letter is more mechanical than emotional. The “showing enthusiasm for the job” part is really showing that you understand the potential employer’s business and see how you would fit well into it. You don’t have to go over the top with “I’d super love to work for your company!” – they know you want to work there, that’s why they have your application; what they want to know is why your experiences and skills would help their business.

    10. Golden Lioness*

      Just go to their website and mention one or some of their values in a sentence to show you’ve done your research. Being enthusiastic doesn’t necessarily mean a fake happy attitude. Professionalism is huge regardless. Hope you feel more like yourself soon. Depression is not fun.

  13. taylor swift*

    I had two really great interviews in July for a position I really wanted… and then they never called me. It was disappointing but I moved on, kept applying for different jobs, etc.

    And then earlier this week, they emailed me apologizing for the delay and said that they are finally ready to hire for this position (it’s a new position, and at the interview they did say that they were still working out what exactly they wanted.) So she said if I was still interested, could I come in this week?

    I’m going in this afternoon and really hoping for the best! I’m a little confused as to if this is an interview or if this is an offer/working out the details meeting. She didn’t mention anything about it being an interview, but I’m still going to dress up nicely and bring my resume. Fingers crossed!

    2. Good_Intentions*

      Taylor Swift:

      I love your user name!

      Just think, you can always blast “Shake it off” in the car really loudly before and after the meeting to clear your mind and give you a boost.

      You’re right to dress professionally for this meeting. My experience has shown that new positions often require the buy-in of people across departments, which means you could be asked to meet with different directors, coordinators, specialists, etc. to see how your skills and disposition align with how they envision the position.

      Best of luck to you! And remember, “Shake it Off”!

    4. Golden Lioness*

      Good luck! sounds like this is more informal than an interview and you’ll probably be discussing or negotiating a potential offer. Good luck!

  14. SabSab*

    I got a job offer last week and was told to respond by Monday and also to reach out to HR to find out what the compensation would be. I was an internal applicant. The job was PT and I knew that going in. It was unlikely I could make it work, but possible, so I applied in good faith. I reached out to HR and got information on standard benefits but not salary — I was told they had to review my pay history and they’d get back to me. Monday rolls around and the office is out for the holiday but I call the hiring manager’s cell phone anyway, because that was the only contact I had for her and she had specifically told me on Friday to contact her Monday. At this point, I still hadn’t received salary info and without that and other reasons (like I need FT designation to enroll in PSLF, I’d need to buy a car for this job which is difficult given I couldn’t be guaranteed a FT schedule with continuing my first job with this office) so I decided to turn it down.

    The hiring manager seemed really uncomfortable with the conversation so I only go to the PSLF point before she ended the conversation. So now it probably sounds like I applied in bad faith (and I worry about my reputation), but I never got to explain about the lack of info regarding salary. She admitted she was surprised to hear from me because she said it was a holiday and she’d forgotten that when she told me to call Monday (I had decided to do it because those were the specific instructions regarding my answer) and it was just all downhill from there. I’ve worked with her before and it’s likely I will again in the future, but do I reach out and email now explaining I was never told the salary offer and that was the primary reason I turned it down?

    I was under the impression they NEEDED a response by Monday so there wasn’t time for me to get that information before making a decision. Looking back, I should’ve began with that as my reason, but I didn’t and can’t change that, so…what do I do moving forward? Reach out and tell her about the lack of salary info or just let it go? I’m afraid of digging myself a deeper hole…

    1. AndersonDarling*

      If anything, I would talk to the hiring manager in person to explain what happened. I think you will be able to show your genuine interest face to face and explain that you couldn’t accept the position without knowing the compensation. You don’t even need to go into details about your personal situation, no one should expect yo to take a job without knowing the salary.

      1. SabSab*

        I’d like to do it in person, but it’s unlikely I’ll see them in the near future, so I’m concerned that by then it will be way too late.

        1. TL -*

          Then you can send them an email (just note you probably won’t see them in person for a while and you wanted to mention it in a timely manner.)

        2. Intern Wrangler*

          I’d just write out a card and thank the hiring manager for taking the time to talk with you. You can apologize for the misunderstanding and contacting her on a holiday and then explain that you had to turn down the offer as you were not clear on the compensation. You can add that you would love to be considered for future opportunities.

        3. N.J.*

          What about something like the below. YMMV, as my wording is a bit clunky, but maybe sending an email with this sorts of ideas/sentiments would frame the situation positively??

          Dear Hiring Manager Name,

          I wanted to follow up on our last conversation regarding x position to say thank you (again?) for taking the time the discuss the in and outs of/details of/your plans for/ this opportunity. I really enjoyed learning more about the work your team is doing. im sorry this opportunity did not work out at this time for me to join your team, due to the uncertainty regarding the part-time status of the position and the associated salary. I look forward to working with you in the future (or some other sort of sentiment regarding continued interaction with this manager due to working at the same compamy??).

    2. Marisol*

      Here’s a sample text for an email:

      Hiring Manager,

      I want to apologize again by call you on Labor Day, when you were out of the office. I guess I took your instructions to contact you literally because I am extremely interested in this position and did not want to lose out on a good opportunity.

      Unfortunately, the awkwardness of our phone call led to a miscommunication that I want to clear up. I was under the impression that you needed my answer by Monday, but when Monday came I had still not received any salary information. Not wanting to miss the deadline I had been given, however, I declined the position, because I thought it would be unwise to accept it without knowing what it paid. Upon reflection, I see I acted hastily, which was probably due to my embarrassment at disturbing you. To be frank, I feel silly for having bungled this process!

      Despite my missteps, I am still very interested in this position, and would like to be considered for it. Is that possible?

      Best,

      SabSab

      This is how I personally would handle it, with an informal, frank, yet professional email. I would send it asap, and I would be very hesitant to send a card as they are slower, more formal and thus less appropriate for an internal position, and I think Alison has advised that they are outdated, but you can search the site for info about that.

      Another idea is to just call her asap on a weekday. Don’t wait any longer though.

      1. SabSab*

        All good points. I think elements of this combined with the example above will be perfect. Thank you so much!

  15. Lily*

    Hi,
    We talk about people working overtime and having work life balance. I do work a lot maybe more than I should. But, I like what I do and I have am inner need to prove that I can solve the problem, so I end up working so much more hours because of that. Other part of it is that I don’t know what to do with my free time since I graduated. I am not sure if that is normal. Or if I need help with being unintentional workoholic?

    1. all aboard the anon train*

      Maybe a bit of both. If you have nothing going on outside of work, that can cause you to focus too much on work.

      I’d say to step back and try some new hobbies. Maybe sign up for a class after work – gym, sports, cooking, book club, crafting, whatever interests you – to force you out of the office at a certain time. I know I like having something after work to force me out of the office during our busy periods, otherwise I’d stay late.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      As long as it doesn’t cause more stress in your life, there’s nothing wrong with you working “maybe more than [you] should.” Is it stimulating to you? Does it make you feel helpful or productive? Do you learn things from it? Does it not adversely impact your personal relationships?

      If you can answer yes to all those questions, then it’s not a problem, I would think.

    3. Susan C.*

      First of all, I sympathize! For me, there’s also the factor that I’m married to a not-so-unintentional, self employed workaholic – so there’s really nothing I can relay to you as a success story, but I’ve put some thought into it.

      What I think would work for me, if I could get around to wrangle it into my life, is joining some sort of club – something with a) a rhythm/fixed appointment I can put into my calendar and trick my subconscious into treating it as equally important as work stuff, and b) other people, meaning a social obligation to not come across as a total flake.

      I’ll be curious to hear about what others can contribute here though!

    4. James*

      You do you. You are the only one who can determine if your work/life balance is out of whack–while there are warning signs, it’s a very individual thing. Some people need more time at work, some more time at home. The trick is to do what makes you happy and is sustainable in the long run.

      As for not knowing what to do with your free, time, do what you did then–join a gym and play some sport, or go out and make friends at the local nightlife, or read, or whatever. Just because you graduated doesn’t mean you can’t do what you used to enjoy. It means you have to adjust it, sure, but you can still do it. After all, you enjoyed it, right?

    5. Sibley*

      I mean this in the nicest possible way: Get a life. Hobbies. Friends. Family. Pets. Gym time. Cleaning your living space time. Whatever.

      Working some overtime isn’t going to kill you. Having periods that are really busy, and others where you’re a lot slower, aren’t going to kill you. But work isn’t everything to life, and the workaholics end up destroying their lives and families because they can’t stop working. Balance is good, and that balance, once found, doesn’t stay static. It moves and adjusts to the latest circumstances. Don’t destroy your enjoyment of work by doing too much for too long.

  16. MissDisplaced*

    Anyone have advice on federal job hunting? Tips? Success stories? What worked for you?
    Is is even possible to get hired for a federal job if you’re not a veteran or current fed employee?
    I’ve been applying for a number of these lately even though I know they’re long shots, but wonder if I’m just wasting my time. Even with the jobs I’m overqualified for, I seem to keep getting the “Qualified but not Referred” response.

    1. Pwyll*

      I’ve had two federal positions in the past. The two biggest pieces of advice I have are: 1) Make sure your resume very, very clearly matches the job’s qualification criteria (even by reusing the same phrasing, if you’ve actually done that work) and 2) it can take a loooooooong time to hear back. I received an interview request for the one position well over a year after I applied.

      But “Qualified but not Referred” is probably the right decision (for the agency) for a job you’re “overqualified” for. It can be a bit of a game to try to match your experience directly with a vacancy.

      The other thing I do is I created an RSS feed of the USA Jobs search for specific keywords, and I read it every single day so that I can apply to jobs the moment they are posted, as a great many Federal jobs close after x applications are received, which could literally be under a few hours.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        I had wondered about that too Pwyll. I had been told that for FedJobs you should apply a grade level or two down from what a similar civilian job would be because the government would never hire-in a civilian above a GS-9 grade even IF your actual education and job skills experience was higher. Which means that, technically, then you would be overqualified for the GS-9.

        But I don’t know. I’ve read or heard so many contradictory things about the GS classification system.

        1. Pwyll*

          No idea if this was a fluke on my end, but I was hired without prior Federal experience at GS-11. I really think it depends on the job qualifications and your background.

    2. Meemzi*

      My mom works for the government as a civilian supporting a branch of the armed services. She has said that if you don’t know where to look, you won’t find the job postings, but it doesn’t sound like you have a problem with that. I applied to a daycare center on base a few times and didn’t hear back. She asked her colleague who manages the hiring manager and he said they get hundreds of applicants.

      If you think she could shed any light on the process, I could ask her.

    3. Grits McGee*

      I know that at my agency one of the big stumbling blocks for people is the KSA’s, especially ones that ask if you have supervised a task. I would never recommend lying, but if you can in any way justify that you’ve supervised someone on that particular task (even if it’s just showing someone how to do it), go ahead and rate yourself at the highest competency. Hopefully that’ll be enough to get you over the hump and at least get your resume out of HR purgatory.

      Other than that, the only thing I can suggest is to just keep applying. I applied for about 15 jobs in a 3-4 month period before I got referred at all, and that was for a position in a specialized field that quasi-required an advanced degree. With positions that only require a BA, it’s really tough to compete with the applicants that have non-competitive hiring status.

    4. vpc*

      It IS possible to get hired for a fed job without being a veteran or a current fed employee, because that happened to me. (Caveat: I was actually already employed by the agency, but through a complicated mechanism which means I was only eligible to apply for all-applicants postings. Ergo, not a “current employee”, meaning “could not apply as an internal candidate”, even with nine years working for the agency.)

      In six years of applying regularly (well over a couple hundred applications, many of which I was very qualified for based on the posting / my experience) I got referred *twice*. Once for a position that required a specific foreign language, which was cancelled before the formal offer was made due to shifting funding; and once for the position I’m now in.

      Coincidentally, my now-former position had an announcement posted at the same time I was interviewing for my new job, and it was specifically targeted to recruit people with my exact background and level of experience. I was not referred for that one. And my new job? turns out to be an absolutely fantastic fit, but from the job announcement, I thought it was a really long shot.

      In other words… do everything you can to match your resume to the posting and answer the questions at the right level, but it still seems pretty random.

    5. Chaordic One*

      On several advertisements for federal jobs as a secretary or administrative assistant, they say they want a copy of the results of a certified typing test that shows how fast an applicant can type. Where would someone get the results of a “certified” typing test?

      Would a test taken over the internet be acceptable?

  17. WS*

    I feel ridiculous for even having to ask this, but does anyone have suggestions for how to make sure you get paid on time?

    My company uses an outside payroll service, so I submit my timesheet to my boss (one of the owners), who forwards it to the other owner, who sends it out to the payroll company. This week is the second time my paycheck hasn’t come through. The first time was about a month ago, so I’m especially not happy about it happening again so soon. I’ve already emailed to ask what’s going on this time and I’m waiting to hear back from someone, but I know last time this happened the other owner just somehow forgot to submit my information to the payroll company so I suspect that that’s happened again.

    I’d just feel a lot better about this if I had any suggestions to give to my boss or the other owner to hopefully stop this from happening again, but I’m drawing a blank. Any ideas?

    1. Dangerfield*

      I wouldn’t go in with a suggestion, because that makes it seem like it’s your responsibility on some level and it’s not. I would ask your boss if she has a suggestion for making sure you get paid on time.

      1. LawCat*

        +1

        I’d also start looking for a job. Missing payroll twice is huge and could be a sign that the organization is in financial trouble. Best case scenario is that the owner is being extremely careless with employee livelihoods.

      2. WS*

        I hadn’t even thought about it sounding like I was taking responsibility if I offered up a suggestion, but you’re absolutely right about that so thank you for pointing it out!

    2. neverjaunty*

      Agree that this isn’t about giving suggestions, this is about making sure you get paid on time. This needs to be a very serious conversation with your boss. You don’t need to say anything about why it happened or about the owner forgetting – both because it will make them defensive and because it really doesn’t matter what happened, the problem is that you have to get paid on time. You have bills you are obligated to pay. You understand that mistakes can happen, but this isn’t a one-time error, it’s happened twice now.

      If the owner doesn’t fall all over herself apologizing to make sure it doesn’t happen again, look for a new job like your butt is on fire.

    3. Kristinemc*

      Do you work every pay period? Depending on the payroll company, they can set up a note on the account that you should be paid each pay period, and if there are no hours for you, they should contact the payroll person at your office to get them.

    4. Observer*

      There is nothing for you to suggest. It really isn’t your issue to solve.

      I’m going to agree with “If your boss doesn’t fall over himself apologizing and promising it won’t happen again, start job hunting.”

      Any employer that you might have any interest in working for will totally understand “My employer started having trouble meeting payroll” as a reason for leaving a job.

    5. Chriama*

      I’m thinking something like “hi boss, this is the second time I’ve been late getting paid. My finances can’t handle this kind of inconsistency on a regular basis so I was wondering what we can do to make the process smoother going forward?”

      And to me, it seems like one solution is you submit your timesheet directly to the payroll company. Maybe you submit it to your boss, she has 24 hours to say ‘no’ otherwise you automatically send it to the payroll company.

    6. AMT 2*

      No experience with this personally but Alison has pointed out in the past that there may be laws on when you are due your paycheck, varying by state (such as they have to pay you within X number of days or whatever) – you might want to look up your state laws before going to your boss, so you have that in your pocket as well. But I’d make a point to the owner that you NEED to be paid on time on the date that they have designated as your pay date – this isn’t your problem to solve, it is theirs.

    7. Marisol*

      this might not work for everyone, but this would make me LIVID and here is how I would handle it. I’d go into his office with confrontational attitude and I’d say, “boss, my paycheck has been late twice in the last 2 months. Is there a problem that I should know about? Because if this company is having trouble paying its bills, then I need to start looking for a stable job.” Assuming the boss says, no, it was just an honest mistake or something to that effect, I’d say, “if you want me to keep working here, you need to pay me on time. California law requires that [xyz legal] so you are actually in violation of the labor law when you do this. Going forward, I expect my paycheck to arrive on time.” Boss agrees, then I say, “great, thanks,” and leave.

      Depends on your situation but that’s what I’d do. This is a hill I would definitely die on.

  18. The Other Dawn*

    Any advice on how to start a conversation with someone who needs to improve verbal communication skills?

    Recently I’ve noticed that one of my team members has an issue with verbalizing during our meetings. It’s a fairly informal meeting and it happens every week, so it doesn’t seem to be that she’s shy. The last two weeks she’s had to talk about an issue that came up in the department with one of our QC processes. She’s working with another department to resolve it and seems to be making progress; however, to hear her explain it is very painful. So much so that the head of the department, who isn’t involved in all the day-to-day minutia, came out of both meetings still not really understanding what is going on. He approached me earlier this week and said he’s concerned, because he got the impression that she doesn’t know what she’s doing or doesn’t understand this particular process.
    From what I’m hearing, it seems to be an issue of forgetting that other people are not involved in the process and don’t understand it the way she does. I don’t think it’s that she doesn’t understand it. Also, she dropped the ball on part of it due to a misunderstanding on her part and lack of follow-up on part of her and the other department. I think maybe she’s a bit flustered when talking about this issue in the meeting because she’s embarrassed about what happened. For the most part she does well with explaining things in general, although there are times when I need to ask clarifying questions.

    I actually have communication issues sometimes, in that I sometimes have an issue verbalizing what’s in my mind or just assume that people are in my mind and know what I’m going to say, but I’m finding it difficult to start the conversation. I don’t want it to be like I’m saying she’s a terrible communicator, but I want to get across that she should maybe organize her thoughts before the meeting, bring notes, etc.

    1. Tuckerman*

      I often get flustered when on the spot and can’t verbalize as well as I can in casual conversation. Having a detailed outline in front of me is tremendously helpful. If she is going to need to talk in a meeting, can you ask her to send you an outline of what she plans to talk about, a couple days in advance? Writing an outline may fix the problem, or it might clue you in to where she may need to go into more detail to clue in others. Then you can give feedback (“This looks great! One suggestion: I think you’ll want to add more info about teapot invoicing in the last section so the engineering team understands the context.”)

    2. Lily Rowan*

      Giving those specifics is what makes it not just saying she’s a terrible communicator, so I’d suggest doing that! And be clear that this isn’t about you thinking she doesn’t know what she’s doing, but more about being able to get that across to people who are less in the weeds than she is.

    3. NW Mossy*

      You can also consider her telling her to build in some intentional breaks in her explanation to stop and verify understanding with her audience before proceeding. Giving people an opening to ask questions not only helps the person getting an answer but also helps your employee show up as the sort of presenter who’s there to help people understand, not just drone. This should be fairly easy to do in a process-based discussion, because there’s a natural storyline with stopping points when you’re describing something that’s linear.

    4. brightstar*

      I’m blunt, so that’s how I’d approach it. It’s important, particularly since she’s working with other departments, that everyone understands the processes, status, etc. I’d mention that I use notes so I don’t go off topic and to keep the narrative streamlined (I actually do this). Everyone has different communication styles that aren’t better or worse than other ones and that needs to be considered when presenting information.

    5. Camellia*

      Some people work better with words and some people work better with “pictures”. I like the idea of asking her to create a brief outline of her talking points, but if she struggles with this, maybe she would do better if she could create a graph or a flowchart or some other pictorial representation that will help her better communicate her points.

    6. Chaordic One*

      What is your team member doing before the meeting? If she is involved in doing something nonverbal that takes a lot of concentration, it is probably difficult for her to switch gears and start speaking when she gets to the meeting.

      One way to help her switch gears might be to have her rehearse how she might present information in a meeting beforehand, or at least get her involved in conversation before the meeting so she will have already accessed her verbal cortex and have it up and running before the meeting. Another thing to try might be for her to have a written outline of what she might say.

      (Yes, I know it is probably a lot of trouble to go to, but if i works it should make it easier for her in the future.)

    7. Troutwaxer*

      Let’s go back to the fundamental basics of this issue: Did she know in advance that she would have to talk about this issue? If she didn’t, it’s not surprising that she didn’t communicate well. Was there a meeting agenda and was it prepared in advance?

  19. Cruciatus*

    A friend told me about a job at the university where I work that she applied for. The way she described it I wasn’t interested, but then when I read the ad myself I changed my mind though I don’t think I’m 100% what they want. The job ad was actually rather vague I think for the scope of the position (and I think it may be a new one).

    So my questions are these:
    1) I’ve been in my administrative support position for just a year now in August. Is that enough time in one position to apply to another at the same university?
    2) My current position is a bit of a mix. I help students who come in (with advisors, directions, office hours, simple schedule questions), I create the semester schedules for all faculty in our school (with the help of program chairs of course). I set faculty survey ratings for students for every single class then download them later and transfer them to each faculty member’s “calculator.” But do any of these types of things transfer to a student/academic affairs role? If it’s important, I do have a Masters in Sociology which could be applied somehow, I think. One of the first things mentioned in the ad is holding student interaction sessions and academic mentoring. I’ve never done anything like that. I don’t even quite know what I’d be doing at those sessions. What things should a person expect in a student/academic affairs role?
    3) If I do apply, do I *have* to tell my supervisor? I feel so damn guilty for wanting to apply and if I don’t get it… She’s….something else. And I really don’t need her to know I’m applying elsewhere. I don’t want her fretting every time a job opens or maybe even finding an excuse to get rid of me somehow. She’s very up and down and I never know how she’ll react to anything. They were excited I made it a year with plans to stay longer (I was the first in a while to do s0). But I don’t like my office tension which is another reason I’d like to apply.
    4) Less important, but why do I feel so guilty about applying to this job just because my friend did? I would have discovered it eventually!

    1. Jax*

      I am support staff at a university. I know that at my university many people take whatever they can get to get their foot in the door before moving on to positions that they’re more excited about because it is difficult to get hired from the outside. I recently applied for a position in a different department and didn’t tell either of my bosses. I figured I would if I got an offer. Unfortunately, I knew from the moment I sat down that I was just a courtesy interview (but the person who was hired was waaaaaay more qualified than I am!)

      I wouldn’t say anything to your boss until you know something. And I wouldn’t feel guilty about applying just because your friend did. Best case- one of you gets it so you get to be happy for the other!

    2. Dangerfield*

      What country are you in?

      1) It’s not unknown for people to ready to move on from basic/entry level jobs after a year, but it depends on the rest of your career history.

      2) Interesting! Do they give you any more information on the type of academic mentoring or other duties of the post? Anything I think of as academic mentoring tends to be done by academic staff rather than support staff – perhaps that’s why the ad is so vague. They’re not quite sure what the job is yet. Universities, IME, tend to be very keen on you having experience in the specific duties wherever possible, so you’ll want to ensure you focus heavily on how excellent you are at the duties in which you do have experience.

      3) If you don’t think she’ll find out you’ve applied I don’t think you have to tell her.

      4) It’s tough when either you or your friend getting the job by definition means the other doesn’t have it.

      1. Dangerfield*

        Sorry, I realise my question is a bit out there! I do university hiring but in the UK, so sometimes things work differently. I’m intrigued with how the job you describe fits some of our description frameworks.

      2. Cruciatus*

        I was able to get more info on the DL while everyone in my office was at lunch. It’s been created by one the new associate dean who had a similar position at her former school. It’s a voluntary program for at risk students that involves high frequency contact and mentoring, especially for black males. It’s a little bit of advising and mentoring and everything else. I’m still interested but I still have no skills specifically related. And I’m in the US!

        1. Kbeers0su*

          I have worked in student services type positions for 10+ years at universities, doing everything from running residence halls to hearing conduct cases to advising students. Given what you just shared about the job, they’re likely looking for someone with a strong background in student services, working with at-risk students at some level, or (at minimum) someone who has a strong passion for and understanding of social justice issues. Depending on your other experience, the focus of your sociology degree, etc. you certainly may be a fit. But also understand that it’s likely that you’ll be up against folks with a Master’s degree in Higher Education or Student Affairs (the degree many professionals in this field hold) so that might be a hurdle. That’s not to say not to apply- I’ve hired folks in my time, as well, and that has included folks with other education degrees, MBAs, etc.

          As far as your application materials go (and if you get an interview) you need to ensure that you’re highlighting any knowledge or experience that you have with regards to working with at-risk students, mentoring, or advising. You can google “at risk college students” and get articles that will help give you an understanding of some of the research in the field specifically regarding at-risk students. As someone who also came from a Sociology background (BA before grad school) it will probably all make sense to you given your prior education, but you’re going to need to know more about commons strategies and methods to be able to talk not just about the importance of support in at-risk students but how to actually do that work.

          For that, read up on “college student development theory” as well as advising strategies. There is a shift towards what is called “intrusive advising” these days, which is why positions and programs like this one are popping up at schools across the nation. Essentially, based on all this, we know that at-risk students need a closer advising relationship than a normal student, and thus having someone identified as their mentor- who is going to proactively outreach to the student as opposed to waiting for the student to ask for help- can be a key to success.

          I feel like I just spewed a lot of higher education nonsense at you, but I hope this is helpful. Good luck if you do decide to apply!

          1. Cruciatus*

            No, this is helpful. I figured I’m not 100% what they are looking for, but I had to read between the lines of the ad which was rather bland. They only call for at least a Bachelor’s. Nothing about preferred degrees in X, Y, or Z. It’s new so that is also concerning that maybe they don’t know what they want yet. I haven’t done any advising, and is not my job to do so. Just connect students with faculty. But on the other hand, I do know campus resources, faculty (at least in our school), and how things work more or less. I think my sociology background would help with understanding not everyone gets equal footing stepping onto a college campus and background factors that might play into that (not that others don’t know this as well but I have to pretend my degree is helpful in some way!). But I will do some reading tomorrow on strategies you mentioned and see if I’m still interested and apply on Sunday. This job would sure be potentially more meaningful. I’ve been doing administrative for so long now that I’m hesitant about this job because it’s like nothing I’ve ever done and I fear not liking it (though I’m not convinced I wouldn’t!). Decisions, decisions.

            1. Kbeers0su*

              Don’t downplay the knowledge that you have…you’d be surprised what little some folks who work with at-risk students understand about them. And you make a good point about the skills that you’ve gained being there as an admin for a year- you’ve gotten a sense of how things work and if you’re going to be helping students navigate university bureaucracy, that will certainly be helpful. I love what I do, and if you’re looking for meaningful work I think it could really offer you a great way to do that.

        2. Yup*

          From experience, this is the type of position in which admin assistant experience wouldn’t be so transferable. It sounds like they’re looking for someone who’s worked with at-risk populations, has done counseling / mentoring, and knows the ins and out of the curriculum. The latter might be something you know, but they’d really look for experience in the first two categories the most.

          It sounds like you want to move on. but this might not be the best match for you. If it’s something you’d want to develop, how about volunteering to build that experience?

    3. Guam Mom*

      You may want to check with HR to see if there is a policy about notifying your supervisor for internal transfers. I work at a US university and you’re required to notify your supervisor of your application if you become a finalist. The department you’re applying to can also contact your current supervisor (after you have confirmed to HR that they’ve been notified) for a reference check. The same was true at the other university I worked at previously.

      1. Cruciatus*

        I would notify if I got even an interview, I just didn’t know if you have to do it at the application stage.

      2. Bob Barker*

        This is a tickybox in my University internal-applicants application: My supervisor does/does not know I am applying.

        (It’s really nice to be able to tick that box Yes! But I’m glad I am able to tick it No these days.)

    4. Awkward Interviewee*

      I work in academic advising at a university. It will of course vary by university, but at my current institution as someone with a master’s in sociology and experience helping students and faculty, as well as scheduling experience, you would be very, very marketable for an academic advising position. And it sounds like the position in question is advising-related? If you’re interested in the position, go for it! You definitely don’t need to tell your supervisor… you’re in administrative support yet have a master’s degree – they can’t expect you to stay forever.

    5. Jennifer*

      I think it sounds like what you do does apply to academic affairs. However, academia will ask very specifically if you have done every aspect of the job before, and in my experience you have to have done 95% of that already just to get the interview and 100% to get hired. It’ll depend on the job listing.
      As for your supervisor: does the current job overlap with the job listing? Is it likely that your supervisor is going to run into and chat with the person hiring in the other department? Do they all go to meetings together? Because if it’s a drastically different department without overlap, I think you can get away with it. If the departments work together, then…no. I haven’t told my supervisors until I get a job interview, though, because at that point someone would tell them.

      One of my coworkers interviewed in an overlapping office, didn’t tell the supervisor, and then the supervisor was invited to be on the interview panel…. She didn’t get it.

  20. anon 3*

    We had a coworker start about a month ago and she’s rapidly getting on my nerves. She’s just… too enthusiastic. Other people have commented about this too. Ex: our manager sent an email addressed to me, her and another coworker. She sent me three different emails in the span of about ten minutes, then came to talk to me in person, before capping it off with another email in the afternoon. It wasn’t urgent (at all); she just didn’t read the email our manager sent closely enough. If she had, that would’ve negated about two of those emails.

    1. AP*

      Our team has expanded pretty quickly and three new hires were recently brought onboard, following shortly by our manager leaving for a different opportunity. So we have this issue times three. I’m very torn because I want to be helpful and give everyone the tools they need to be successful, especially since we are manager-less at the moment, but there is also a ton of jockeying for position and power and it’s really distracting and making me nuts. So I have nothing to add, but I feel you! I’m just trying to be kind and not say too much.

    2. Susan C.*

      Calling that an issue of enthusiasm is really charitable… I’d probably go with scatterbrained and/or slightly disrespectful of other people’s time. I mean, come on. Although I could see it as a result of new job nerves – is she by chance very young?

      I don’t know if you’re in a position to do anything about it, but *someone* probably needs to tell her to chill, and also make sure she’s in a position to do so (a constant state of low key ‘what do I do’-anxiety due to lacking guidance/documentation etc would give me frazzled and slightly manic edge too).

      1. Myrin*

        Yeah, I was just thinking that I don’t see any particular level of “enthusiasm” in the example provided, especially as the emails seem to have consisted of questions or insecurity, and not repeated excitement about receiving an email by her manager.

      2. Kai*

        THIS. Her behavior is annoying, but if she just seems particularly eager to do a good job, I’d bet she mellows out on her own in time. If not, though, a little coaching could help.

    3. TL -*

      Can you respond by pointing her in the direction of the source information? That’s my go-to response: I think that was covered in Wakeen’s email – I don’t remember at the moment so I’d check that first.

      (Also, if I’m really busy: I’m not thinking about that right now – you can check X or I’ll get back to you at Y time.)

    4. HRChick*

      I’ve started responding “Did you read the email? This information is in the email.”

      Doesn’t always work, but I’ve noticed that I’ve “trained” a few people to read the information in the email before contacting me with questions/complaints.

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        I got on the wrong side of that scale at my last job. I’m big on detail, and there was a lot I still didn’t understand after being there for months. I had a regularly-occurring situation where I would send my supervisor an e-mail about something weird happening and how I didn’t understand because I had never seen it before, or there was no workaround, or I thought I knew (or just guessed) what to do in that scenario but I suppose I was wrong. Her responses frequently indicated she did not read the e-mail. For example,

        me: I tried to do X to tell the rep their request couldn’t be honored, but the program failed and wouldn’t let me do X.
        her: Do X and let the rep know we can’t honor their request.

  21. Nicole J.*

    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to me last week! And confirmed what I already knew, sigh.

    1. Drew*

      Went back and looked and, yeah, that’s a rough situation. I wish you luck in dealing with Ramsay and want to echo everyone else; in the long term, you probably want to go somewhere else before you get swallowed up.

    2. Troutwaxer*

      Looking at the situation, I’d want to how the buyout deal is structured? Will Ramsey need income from the business going forward to complete his payment for the business? If so, will his inability to run the business cause financial problems for the current owners?

      And yes, get out as quickly as possible.

  22. Critter*

    We have a lunch swiper here, and the lounge has windows with blinds, which have been closed until recently. Maybe they’re keeping them open to curb the swiper’s impulse to swipe. Anyone ever caught a lunch swiper?

    1. Charlotte Collins*

      Nope, but someone had some cheesecake stolen that she had brought in for an potluck for PT evening workers (FT trainer, so she would be at work in the afternoon). (She was a former pro pastry chef, so this was a homemade, fancy cheesecake.)

      Those of us who had potlucks for our evening trainees would leave things in the car until needed when it was cool enough out or wrap things in plastic bags with lots of tape, so that the food swiper would have to work at it and be obvious.

      My personal strategy is to keep my lunch at my desk in an insulated bag with a cold pack (when needed). I avoid the fridge unless absolutely necessary.

    3. Amelia Parkerhouse*

      We also have one but have never been successful in catching the person. I have begun to suspect that some of the reason they do it is for the fun of risking being caught. I just stopped keeping anything good in the office fridge which is super annoying. We considered putting in cameras like we have in other places in the building but decided we’d probably learn things we could never unsee if we did that.

      1. Critter*

        We have our own small fridge in our office, so I keep stuff in there. It’s mostly people in the larger open offices where they don’t have the space for their own fridge that have to use the one in the lounge. Someone put up a sign a little while ago saying something like “I think you might really be struggling, I’d like to help, please come see me, we’ll keep your identity private”, and we all thought it would stop, but it continued.

    4. Murphy*

      Ugh, no. This used to happen to me. Only a few times, and it may have been an accident, but with only a 30 minute lunch break and nothing nearby, I started writing my name on everything.

    5. Hermione*

      Ugh I feel you. At my last office I once picked up lunch meats and rolls on my way into work on a Monday, intending to make sandwiches all week. I had a sandwich on Monday, left them in a bag labelled with my name and the date (so that it wouldn’t be tossed on cleaning day), and by lunch on Tuesday someone had taken the whole bag – an entire pound of ham and a half pound of cheese, plus grapes and hummus. I was livid.

    6. Minion*

      I just cannot fathom why someone would swipe someone else’s lunch. I often bring in those horrible frozen concoctions from Smart Ones or Lean Cuisine and there’s one in the freezer right now that I’m almost positive I brought, but I can’t bring myself to eat it because I’m not completely sure and I can’t stand the thought of eating someone else’s food no matter how long it’s been in there. I think it will likely end up expiring!

      1. No sinus pressure today*

        When I bring something to work like that, I label it so that I know it’s mine. But so that my coworkers don’t think I’m labeling it to be obnoxious, I don’t use my name. I’ll do something like draw a star on it with sharpie. (Doesn’t help for the current freezer contents, but for the future you could try it!)

        1. Nicole*

          I don’t care if someone thinks I’m being obnoxious – I put my initials on everything I put in the work freezer or fridge. I don’t think my place has had issues with lunches being swiped but I’m not taking any chances.

        2. Snazzy Hat*

          I’m a fan of the obviously different presentation. Forgot which frozen meal is yours? Definitely not the one in the black shopping bag from a boutique in another country; that one’s mine.

      2. motherofdragons*

        This happened to me once! I sometimes bring in a carton of those Laughing Cow cheese wedges. I saw an unopened one in the fridge that’s the same flavor I usually get, and couldn’t for the life of me remember if it was mine. I kept an eye on it, and after a few weeks it was still unopened, and I was super curious (and hungry!), so I put a little post-it note on it that said “Whose are these?” They were gone the next time I opened the fridge – not sure if someone took my note to mean “Get your stuff out of here!” or what!

      3. Golden Lioness*

        I normally label mine, because I knew someone took one of mine by mistake and left theirs (which I didn’t like) I know who it was and it wasn’t done on purpose, but we had a swiper who upon opening a container of home made leftovers proceeded to bite off pieces of meat and then left the half uneaten chunks in the container and put it back… Yuk!

      1. Golden Lioness*

        Yes, they do! I went without linch at all a few times because of them. I started carrying cans and dried food in my drawer so I least I have something to eat in those situations or if I forget to bring my lunch… very rare, I never forget about food… LOL

    8. Trout 'Waver*

      I haven’t run into the lunch thief. But I have run into their equally annoying accomplice. The inquisitive assclown who will open your lunch to look at it and leave it open in the fridge, thus ruining it. There’s a special place in hell for that miscreant.

    10. OhBehave*

      Nope, but Google, workplace lunch theft and you will get tons of ideas on how to combat this! One person left a note on her food saying, I know who you are! She hasn’t had a problem since. There are so many evil things to do to your lunches to cause grief to the thief. I wouldn’t recommend this just because of the liability. I an AAM post from someone who likes spicy foods. The thief struck and ate their meal and became violently ill. He then claimed the person planted ‘bad’ food so he would get sick.

      I don’t think writing your name on anything will stop this. The thief knows it’s not their food in the first place – why would a personalized lunch stop anything? So he can think fondly of you while eating what you so carefully packed for yourself?

      Try locking the lunch bag or keep it in an insulated pack at your desk if possible. It amazes me how people think the work fridge is fair game for them.

      1. Nicole*

        I disagree. I think seeing a name on the lunch personalizes it more; if the other person has even a slight conscience they might think twice. Kinda like the experiment showing how just a photo of a pair of eyes stopped people from stealing. It’s a psychological trick. Won’t work on everyone, of course.

        1. Drew*

          Plus, you can hope that the thief will get walked in on in the middle of grabbing your lunch by someone who says, “Jane, what are you doing with Wakeen’s lunch?” Failing that, maybe you can at least scour trash cans looking for the wadded-up bag with your name on it.

      3. Chris*

        I remember the spicy food theft post, too. If memory serves, in a hilarious twist, HR blamed the person who brought spicy food. (Yep: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/07/a-coworker-stole-my-spicy-food-got-sick-and-is-blaming-me.html)

        I agree with the orginal take on this. Their HR team is terrible.

        Around here, that sort of incident would probably just inspire copycats to bake habanero-chocolate cookies with ‘don’t eat me’ signs on them, and people would eat them to see if they could tempt someone else into trying it unaware.

        I don’t work in the usual sort of place, though.

    11. Oh Fed*

      My swiper inadvertently outed himself. We used to joke that you could leave a $5 bill on the table in the break room and it would be there a week later but but your lunch, labeled with your name in the fridge and it would be stolen by lunchtime. I was pregnant and working nights. My hubs would pack food for my shift. Since I was still in the first trimester, I had not told a soul at work. One night a rather obtuse fellow sat down in our work area and said “So yer pregnant, eh?” I brushed him off but couldn’t figure out how he suspected until I sat down to eat my relatively puny lunch and found a note written by my husband to eat well since I was “eating for two”. I may have thrown a pickle at his head….

    12. Jeni*

      Years ago when my husband worked at a university, they had a lunch snatcher in his department. It took a few months but they discovered that it was actually someone entering the building right before 5, hiding in a closet and spending the night!

  23. OutTheBox*

    I’m looking for an internal job but I’m wondering if I should tell my boss. How do you determine when you should talk to your boss about wanting to move? At some point I’m going to need her reference but I don’t want to put my job in jeopardy either.

    1. Sadsack*

      You should find out what the rules are where you work. My employer requires me to tell my manager when I am applying for an internal position. Other places have different requirements.

      1. Camellia*

        This! And at OldJob they would ask your manager first if it was okay to interview you and consider you for a job. If your manage said no, even if it was selfishly that they didn’t want to lose you or have to find and train someone else, then HR would not even contact you.

      2. Christopher Tracy*

        So does mine. And our managers get to block the move if they want to by answering No to the email HR sends asking if we’re eligible for a transfer.

      3. Fantasma*

        +1

        At my company, you can keep it confidential until you formally interview with another team. Managers can’t block moves but of course transitions depend on business needs. At a previous company, your current manager wasn’t contacted until right before the offer stage, but your move could be blocked by your executive director.

  24. LawCat*

    I’m having a hard time emotionally letting go of ex-job. Any suggestions for moving on?

    Part of me is torn because of policies that I believe are negatively impacting the pay of women. It’s a public entity and I could certainly investigate by seeking public records and I know which ones to ask for. At the same time, part of me just wants to get on with my life and let it go.

    1. Good_Intentions*

      LawCat:

      What a predicament!

      Is there a way that you could discreetly share your insider knowledge with an intrepid reporter who could make a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request and write an article shining a bright light on the inequities of the public entity in question?

      Would you consider working with local legislators to change the policies dictating the unfair treatment of women at the office?

      Please keep in mind that I’m an internet stranger just throwing out suggestions. In no way do I mean to suggest you should neglect your own mental health or sense of well-being. However, I do wonder how many unequal paychecks your story with supporting documentation could stop.

      You’re in a tough spot, and I don’t envy you that.

      Take care of yourself and, in the words of Jiminy Cricket “Let Your Conscience be Your Guide.”

    2. LCL*

      Find out how long a time period you have to legally do something about this. Then stop thinking about it and do something else for a month. You will be more sure of what you want to do if you take some time away from it.

      1. LawCat*

        Giving myself permission to stop thinking about it for a month is a great idea. I have been having trouble setting it aside (it keeps me awake some nights), but if I knew there was a definite future time that I will think about it and it can wait until that time, that would really alleviate some of the anxiety it is causing me.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I had a difficult situation, which I could either investigate or move on with my life.

      I thought about me, being ten years older and what would I think if myself if I let it go?

      For me, I landed on, I have to try.
      But I don’t want it to swallow up my life.

      So I set a time frame of 18 months. I decided to run at it with all my might and at the end of 18 months call it quits. (Eighteen months was appropriate for the nature of my issue, yours might be shorter.)

      I gave it 18 months and came up empty handed. I stuck to my plan, I had a cut off point so I quit and went back to life.

      It was a few years later, I got a letter, “let’s talk”.

      I went and talked and the matter was resolved the way I felt it should be.

      I guess what I am saying, is figure out how big a deal this is over your life time. You know yourself, if you know that this is going to haunt you years from now, you may actually need to dig a bit. If you know that in a little bit your life will have a different focus and you are more interested in getting to that new and better place, you might be able to say, “forget it, I will just build a better tomorrow starting right now”.

  25. all aboard the anon train*

    First, I’m glad the summer is almost over since it means I’ll no longer freeze in the air conditioning!

    Second, I feel like I’m always complaining about recruiters, but I’ve had more than a few contact me on my WORK email lately, which seems like a pretty big faux pas, in my opinion. My LinkedIn is connected to my personal email and white my work email is readily available, I don’t like getting job offers on there in case IT happens to see it and alert someone (I know this is rare, but still).

    Also, I’ve had a couple lately get cranky when I ask if the salary includes bonuses/raises or if the salary offered is the base salary or when I ask about the status of bonuses/raises (if they’re given by personal performance or dependent on the department/company’s performance, the yearly raise percentage, etc). I’ve learned from experience that a lot of companies don’t give great raises or bonuses each year, so you have to really negotiate salary beforehand. But recruiters still seem to not like talking about it, which I find irritating.

    1. Sibley*

      I hate, hate, hate it when recruiters email or CALL me at work. I’ve had both. My response is actually fairly rude, and I’m ok with that. “Do not contact me at this address” or “do not contact me at this number”. Done. I actually had one recruiter then email me at my personal address, apologizing, and I responded with something like “you clearly have my personal contact information, why did you think it was ok to contact me at work?”

      Pretty sure I burned that bridge, and I’m ok with that, I don’t want to work with a recruiter who’s so clueless anyway.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I know there are good recruiters out there, and I’d love to work with them instead of the ones who ghost me or get angry when I turn down what they say would be a “really great opportunity”, or who can’t communicate clearly.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Yeah, seriously. If you’re a recruiter, it should be a business expense for you to spring for premium LinkedIn so you can send me a message even if we aren’t connected. Not looking me up on LinkedIn, figuring out what my work email is, and emailing me there.

      I always delete such emails unread. They’re common enough that even if IT were looking, I bet they wouldn’t think anything of it.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        The weird thing is that in a few cases, they HAVE contacted me first on LinkedIn and then after I respond, they email my work address. It’s so strange and irritating.

  26. anonymous cat*

    how do you all handle a very absent manager? my manager/head of our team seems to be having a very rough year. there’s been medical stays, car accidents, family emergencies. i get it. life happens.

    but she will go off the radar for a few days at a time without checking in. it’s starting to really hamper my workload, my long term career goals, and i worry about our customers. plus, it’s downright depressing and unprofessional. others in our somewhat large department are starting to notice and talk.

    would you go to the leader and say that something needs to change? i totally get it if this is a short term thing – but i’m worried about upcoming projects and not being able to meet deadlines/work efficiently if he continues this. i’ve somewhat voiced my concerns, but i feel like we are swiftly approaching the point of no return here.

    anything you can say would be much appreciated, as i am a lowly peon compared to him, but at the same time.. i don’t know how much more of this i can take.

    1. Critter*

      I would say something to your manager directly if you haven’t yet, before going to her superior. Just in the spirit of collaboration, you know? Tell her that you don’t know when she will be away, and that you need to be able to reach her. Ask if she has a plan in place for contacting her. I would leave it there and see what happens. If you have brought it up with her before, maybe it is time to say something to someone.

      1. anonymous cat*

        i have always mentioned to manager that whatever they need to be taken care of to let me know and i will handle it – they just have to keep me in the loop. i can find things in certain places, but when they have never been shared with me and now i have 3 other departments asking for said info with no place to turn.. it’s difficult.
        but now it’s coming down to things being way way put off because they are the only ones with the keys to the kingdom, so to speak.

    2. AF*

      I think using a compassionate tone is really key here. Ask what you can do to be proactive when this person is out. It sounds like they don’t have a contingency plan in place for his absence. Go to the leader and say that you want to be respectable of your manager’s difficult situation, but that there are concrete examples of things that are falling through the cracks, and you’d like help in making sure the work (and you) isn’t suffering. Framing it as complaining that someone left you hanging (when they have legit reasons for their absence, even if they aren’t good about making other plans to take care of the work) is going to turn people off. Good luck!

      1. anonymous cat*

        oh totally – i’m definitely compassionate. i’ve had a year like that too – got married, had two family members pass away.. it was a doozy of a year. i get it. i’m definitely of the type to ask what i can do to keep things moving and let manager heal. but when manager is not sharing info and unreachable.. i don’t know what to do.

    3. NW Mossy*

      It’s absolutely appropriate to say to both your boss and the leader, “If I have an issue that I’d normally bring to Lucinda and she’s not available, who should I go to? For example, I had X, Y, and Z come up recently and it’ll help keep things moving forward if I know who the appropriate back-ups are.”

      I think it’s kind of outrageous that Lucinda doesn’t have someone who can step into her shoes if she’s out. While her particular situation is more extreme than normal, bosses that have their lives totally together also do things like take vacations, get sick, or just plain get booked solid with meetings on a particular day. It’s a horrible move for a manager to leave her team, peers, and superiors hanging whenever she’s not around. At a minimum, there should be a standing “If you need something, call Fergus and he can either assist or find you the right person” order for all managers.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      “Leader, Absent Manager is really have a heck of a time, I feel bad about it and wish I could change that for her. The one thing I can do is make sure stuff stays up to date. Sometimes I have questions or I need to give info to others and I have no where to turn. It seems a bit unfair to ask her if she is using PTO/family leave and, in fact, there are times when I cannot reach her, which is totally understandable. Do you have any suggestions on how we can keep things from backing up so she does not have an overwhelming pile of work when she come back?”

  27. matcha123*

    I have spent years thinking about jobs, but not really job hunting. On the one hand, I don’t feel like I’m smart enough to do anything. On the other hand, I feel kind of scared of job hunting. What if I apply to a job I feel lukewarm about and they want me to take a job? Do I need to have everything prepared to move at the drop of a hat? Should I apply to jobs I’m not all that interested in just to apply to places?

    Is there a mindset you all get in before sending out applications and thinking about moving?

    1. Bad Candidate*

      My mindset is “Don’t trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.” I try not to worry about those things until it actually becomes something to worry about. I’ve found that most of the time, I’m worried for nothing. I don’t know if I’d apply to jobs that I’m not all that interested in though. That’s how you end up in jobs you’re not all that interested in. Which can and will make you miserable.

    2. Sibley*

      For me, yes there’s a mind set. I need to be dissatisfied in some way. Other people are different and need less motivation.

      However, I’m a little concerned by your comment “I don’t feel like I’m smart enough to do anything.” If you really mean that (and be honest with yourself), maybe something in your life is out of wack. Maybe look at that first.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t apply to jobs you are lukewarm about and that gets rid of that dilemma. And going along with that no, do not apply to jobs you are not interested in. Interest will not improve once you start working there.

      They are not saying “we want you to take the job”, they are saying, “We think you are a good fit, do you think we are a good fit for you?”

      Feeling smart enough: There is a difference between “feeling” and “fact”. You may not feel smart but that has no bearing on the fact of if you are or are not smart. You could be the smartest person in the world, but if you tell yourself that you do not feel smart then not too much is going to happen. So how about telling yourself that you are an average person with just as much right as anyone else to having a decent job? You could start there and build on it.

      Mindset-wise, look at what you do well in life. If you can’t think of anything right away, start thinking about what others compliment you on. This could be at work or at home. Write down the compliments if you need help in looking for patterns.
      Look at jobs that will give you the opportunity to use your natural abilities. If you are talking to an employer about something you know you do well with, that becomes your mindset, you are just explaining how you do well with this type of work.

      Understand that if you have spent years thinking about jobs, you’ve probably scared the crap out of yourself. Our minds have a way of making things super huge. You’re better off in dealing with facts. What types of places would have work for your types of skills and abilities? What do you like about current job/previous jobs? What do you dislike about your current and previous jobs?

      If you just think about jobs, I can almost promise you, you will talk yourself right out of any job opportunity. I kinda know something about this first hand.

  28. Poppy*

    My boss is asking for feedback on a co-worker which may contribute to a case for him being terminated. I’ve been working with this guy closely for a couple of weeks. He is smart, good at things that we need around here, but his attitude stinks. He creates the impression that he believes himself to be the smartest person in the room at all times. Whether the people he’s talking to have 4x his experience or not. So he talks with a smirk. It’s subtle and hard to describe, because the words he says are respectful, but the tone is not. If you point out an error he has made, he doesn’t believe you until you prove it to him. Which is pretty time consuming! He can also be sloppy with work, meaning I have to spend a lot of time double checking things. I will give me boss honest feedback, but I feel like this guy might get fired for basically being a bit of a jerk, not for true performance related reasons. Can being hard to work with count as a performance issue?

    1. Graciosa*

      Absolutely.

      Part of any job is getting along with people.

      You’ve identified in your letter many reasons why this person is having a negative impact at work. You’re spending time dealing with him and his issues that could be spent doing – oh, I don’t know – *anything* more productive.

      The answer to this one is easy.

      I would be happy you have a boss who both sees that and is willing to address it. If the arrogant jerk can’t straighten out and ends up being replaced, imagine your work place with a decent human being (or at least one who can fake it while on the clock) in his stead.

    2. Myrin*

      Absolutely! (And I’m pretty sure Alison has talked about this before – I’ll go and search for relevant posts.)
      Soft skills are part of his performance and if he isn’t exhibiting them, he’s not doing well in an important part of his job. Also, because you seem to feel a bit guilty about being honest: It’s this guy’s own behaviour that got him fired.

    5. bb-great*

      Yes, imo being hard to work with is absolutely a performance issue. It makes it harder for work to get done. It’s difficult to have an efficient, productive work relationship with someone who causes friction constantly. Sometimes people can get away with an abrasive personality if their work doesn’t necessitate a lot of interaction with others and/or they are truly brilliant, but that doesn’t sound like that’s the case here. If you have to spend a lot of time double checking his work and explaining his mistakes to him, is he really a great performer? He sounds mediocre AND unpleasant, which is really not a compelling combination.

      1. Critter*

        +1

        Even if he wasn’t difficult to work with, spending time checking his work is more than enough to warrant honest feedback.

    6. MissDisplaced*

      Absolutely. Though in giving the feedback, be sure you stick to facts and not let your emotion enter into it. I say that only because it could be possible your dislike of him could cloud the way you hear his “tone.” [Maybe not but we’re all human that way].
      “Fergus could use improvement with his verbal skills”
      “Fergus needs to improve his detail and proofreading skills, I often find small mistakes that need to be pointed out to him.”
      “Fergus is not always open to receiving feedback when mistakes are pointed out.”

      Rather than “He talks with a smirk” even if he does tend to talk with a smirk. And if you’re being honest, you could point out what Fergus does do well (hopefully there are things). Though, I guess if the negatives outweigh the positives here, you may not want to.
      What’s funny is that at some organizations this would be put up with if the person was in a high enough position or (often) male.

      1. Poppy*

        This. All of this is what I’m struggling with. Because I can’t pinpoint that his verbal skills are exactly lacking, it’s just difficult and stressful working with him.

        1. Chriama*

          You can just say that. It’s difficult and stressful working with him, plus you’re wasting all this time negotiating with him instead of collaborating to get work done.

          Also, someone being unpleasant is totally a legitimate complaint. It doesn’t need to directly affect your work – if you find yourself hesitating to talk to him, or other people avoid him by directing requests to you, those are all reasons why his behaviour is unacceptable. Quite frankly, part of your job is being professional, which means being reasonably pleasant to be around.

    7. Observer*

      Absolutely. The disrespect aside, you’ve just described two performance issues that his attitude creates. One is that you have to spend extra time “proving” that you are right, even when he should accept what you say. And you have to spend extra time checking work that you shouldn’t need to check because he’s sloppy.

    8. Biff*

      My department just declined to make a job offer to an intern for just this kind of problem. It is not necessarily a performance issue in and of itself, but the lack of respect for others on the team was certainly the root cause of performance and burgeoning HR issues. Our disrespectful dude zoned out during meetings, didn’t listen to women who were training him on new processes, and tended to ignore ethnicities and seniors but seemed to fetishize our young asian lady. (I wish I could unsee that, btw.) This means that at the end of his internship, he didn’t really understand the job, he didn’t understand our business norms (even though we had specifically said that was a goal of his internship) and we saw a strong potential for him to create drama or bad team dynamics.

      If you need help telling someone this in more diplomatic terms, you can certainly steal a line from me. When I was asked to characterize the intern, I said “I’m not comfortable with how Intern treated Enuice, Geraldo, or Momo. Geraldo and Enuice have extremely valuable experience to share with interns, but I felt he blew them off in favor of paying attention to Hans, who isn’t even on our team. I really didn’t feel like he made a strong effort to learn material he felt was boring or beneath him. He’s not who I would chose for our team.” I will say, though, that I was relieved to find it unnecessary to say anything about Momo. That would have been a can of worms.

    9. TL -*

      There is a not-insignificant subset of those men (and less frequently, women) in the sciences, and they do end up causing big problems with work because never thinking you’re wrong is a huge barrier to getting science done. So, yes, in my field, that attitude would be a good reason to fire (it wouldn’t get a person fired in general, because sigh) but it could be something that could have serious long-term impacts on the quality of your work that wouldn’t show up in the short-term.

      1. Poppy*

        That’s really interesting! We’re in a STEM field, but not research or anything fancy. But that’s a really good point about it being a barrier to getting good work done.

        1. TL -*

          Haha, it can get really interesting! Approaching problems with the attitude of “What I suggest must work because I’m right” is a serious hindrance to actually solving any problems because it leads you to dismiss evidence that works against your hypothesis and overvalue evidence that supports your hypothesis.

          It’s worse in research because you don’t actually know what you’ll find until you’ll find it (and bias always causes problems!) but it will hinder all other types of work as well.

    10. Isben Takes Tea*

      Remember, you aren’t getting him fired. He’s getting himself fired with his own behavior. You are not responsible for his employment, only your own work, which he is impacting.

    11. Marisol*

      Yes, and being fired can be an excellent way to learn a valuable, much-needed lesson. Might be kinder in the long run.

    12. Chaordic One*

      The cynic in me says, “Sounds like management potential. Promote him!”

      But don’t listen to the cynic. Being fired for being a jerk is a thing.

      Really.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      Here’s what I see:

      Coworker talks down to everyone, it’s in his tone of voice. The words he uses are fine and you have to catch the tone things are said. This means his message is ambiguous to others, people are not sure what he meant, if he is sincere or if if he is sarcastic.

      He does not accept constructive criticism from others. If you find a mistake of his, you have to prove it to him each and every time. This gets very time consuming and very draining.

      Sometimes he gets sloppy with his work and I feel I must double check his work.

      What you have written here is that he is a crappy worker at every turn. What makes him a jerk is his smugness and unwillingness to modify what he is doing. So he is a crappy worker and he is not going to change.

      Look at it this way, employees have to get along with each other. Employees have to be able to accept constructive criticism. Employees have to be able to work accurately, day after day.
      It’s up to your boss to decide how to handle it and it’s just up to you to report what you see.

    14. LCL*

      I would stay far away from the tone issue. That is used against women and African Americans and others frequently. Unfortunately, one of the cultural affiliations(?) in the US is the culture of sitcom snark. See the letter at this website about dipstick and bobble head. Basically, he talks this way because that is how he and his friends talk to each other.

      So, concentrate on what he is or isn’t doing. The inability to take criticism is enough to halt your career at my workplace, and is enough reason to not hire him.

  29. Myrin*

    I posted this in last week’s thread already and several people seemed as interested in getting answers as me but then it kind of got buried in the middle so I’mma post it again:

    I know there are fellow Germans here and I wondered if any of you guys know of a work advice blog that is similar in quality to Alison’s, but pertaining to Germany? A lot of AAM advice can be used here without problems as well but there’s always gonna be stuff that is just different/doesn’t apply here and I don’t really know how to find blogs that are actually good (especially with regards to legal work stuff).

    Also, AAM readers of different countries altogether – are there AAM-like blogs or advice boards in your country/language as well and would you like to share them?

    1. Susan C.*

      Let me camp out here waiting for an answer with you…

      (I think I even posed this very question before)

      1. Tau*

        I camped out in last week’s thread and I’ll join you for this week’s thread as well. I’m worried about looking for a job in Germany soon (I’m German, but I’ve lived abroad for my entire adult life so I’m a bit out of touch with the norms) and I’d really like to know more about the legalities surrounding e.g. health insurance, sick leave, PTO, and working hours. So far my knowledge of the differences mainly boils down to “put your date of birth, high school info and a professional photograph on your CV.”

        1. Schmitt (in Germany)*

          I’m American but I’ve worked in Germany for 10+ years at three employers so I can give it a shot!

          Resume: Having a photo on the resume is very normal. For my first two jobs I did an American-style resume and did not include photo, DOB, high school info, or things like parents’ professions (!) which I saw a lot of while looking for apprentices (I think their career counselors were pretty old-school). For the third job I was thinking about applying for a government position so went with a photo. But not the rest of it.

          Germans seem to really, really like fancy pieces of paper. If you go to conferences and seminars you often get a certificate of attendance. Save these, scan them, have a sidebar on your resume. (eyeroll)

          Health insurance: You will be required to have health insurance and can choose which insurance company you sign up with. Public health insurance comes out of your paycheck pre-deposit with the rest of your taxes and social security type stuff. Doctor visits and outpatient treatments don’t have a co-pay in most cases. Hospital stays are something like 10€ a day for a maximum of 10 days per calendar year. Most prescription medicines have co-pays between 5 and 10€. I’ve had four hospital stays since July 2014 and it has not in any way been a financial hardship for me.

          Sick leave: If you are sick, most employers will let you have 1 or 2 days off without a doctor’s note, though they can require them from day 1 if they want. The employer must cover six weeks of sick leave, after that the health insurance company kicks in and pays roundabout 75% of your income. Your job is protected, though of course it doesn’t mean your employer will be thrilled about it. If you have been off work for a long time, it’s possible to arrange with your company and the health insurance to start back at part-time while still being paid by the health insurance sick leave.

          PTO: I believe the law requires 20 days for workers with a 5 day working week, 24 (or 25? ish, anyway) for those with 6, though most people think the latter number applies for everyone. Depending on the industry, 25 is seen as stingy and 30 generous, though there are industries (and government!) where 30 is standard. Add to that the very generous scattering of public holidays, especially in spring.

          Working hours: Totally depends on the company and the industry though a 40 hour working week is the typical basis. I think there’s a law about overtime under a certain salary cap, but in practice, in my jobs, it’s always been expected that you just do it; though often with some flexibility to take it as comp time. Various coworkers had varied success with pushing back; I just didn’t do it unless absolutely necessary. Bigger companies will likely have a formalized time bank or other rules in place.

          Assorted: Unlike the US, you will have a formal contract. Pay attention to things like notice periods – the company can ask for more than what the law requires (one month for the employee, I think, and for the employer it goes up depending on length of employment), but not less. I signed a “six weeks before the end of the quarter” agreement at my last job and regretted it because it made looking for a job in the correct timeframe a pain. I have a six months’ notice agreement on both sides in my new job, but am confident that I could give notice and then find a job. They could kick me out immediately but they’d still have to pay me.

  30. super anon*

    I’m looking to formally move into project management. Project managers out out there – are there any programs aside from MS Project I should be learning that will make me a more attractive candidate/better at the job when I start looking for jobs after getting my PMP? Any books or resources that are must know about?

    1. Key to the West*

      I would get extremely comfortable with Excel – I can only speak for my company but we use it a lot and you need to be quite skilled in it.

    2. AF*

      Smart Sheet might be good – I feel like most online/cloud-based project management software probably closely mirrors MS Project, but they each have their own little features that make them more or less attractive depending on your needs. Smart Sheet has a fee, but you can do a 30-day free trial on their website. And ditto on Excel!

      Do you have the Project Management Institute’s Book of Knowledge? That’s pretty much the Bible for the PMP – it’s about $40 on Amazon (if you’re in the U.S.). Good luck!

      1. super anon*

        I have the PMBOK 5th edition, a copy of Andy Crowe’s PMP exam guide, and I am taking a Project Management Fundamentals course to get my 35 contact hours for the exam (and so I can take some more hands on PM classes that have that course as a pre-req). Hopefully I can hit it out of the park and pass on the first try, because I’m Canadian and the exchange rate absolutely kills the already high test taking cost.

    4. CMT*

      Can I sort of hijack this question and ask how people get into project management? To be certified, you have to have a certain number of hours of project management, right? But how do you get those hours if you’re not certified? Are there, like, entry-level project management jobs out there? I’ve always thought in the back of my mind that my skills would probably be a good fit for project management, but I’ve never really done anything like it before. I’m just curious how people end up doing it.

      1. NW Mossy*

        At least at my org, we have project managers that don’t have any specialized training or certification. They’ve typically come to the role as an internal hire, usually as a people manager looking to switch gears into projects. External hires typically have some background in PM or a particular methodology like Lean.

        I actually interviewed for a PM role here a few years back and didn’t get it, and the hiring manager suggested beefing up my resume with people-management experience to strengthen my candidacy. I ended up taking a people manager gig and I like it so much that I’m not looking to switch away from that any time soon, but it was good advice anyway. One of the most important skills our PMs need is the ability and willingness to hold project team members accountable whether they have formal chain-of-command authority or not, and managing people helps a lot in making you good at that.

        1. Us, Too*

          Typically when someone talks about “accountability” they mean holding individuals accountable for their tasks. But that isn’t really the most important thing in managing a project. In fact, most PM’s won’t have the personnel management authority to actually hold someone accountable from an HR perspective. Instead, PM’s manage RISK to increase the probability of favorable OUTCOMES. Here’s what I mean.

          You’re the PM on the Top Secret Teapot Initiative at your company. You recognized from day 1 that Wakeen is the only person at the company who has mastered teapot polishing, the last step in manufacturing the new product, per the requirements of TSTI. So you create a mitigation plan (“Plan B”) in case anything happens such that Wakeen’s output might be compromised. Maybe you identify outside contractors you can hire to polish teapots. Or you start cross-training your teapot assemblers to learn to polish. The key here is that you figure all this out BEFORE Wakeen starts to have teapot polishing output issues.

          And let me be candid here: you don’t actually care about whether Wakeen sucks at his job and whether his boss holds him accountable on a PIP or whatever. Maybe he wins the lottery and quits. Or gets sick. Or takes a vacation. All you care about is whether teapots are getting polished per the project plan, and identifying discrepancies ASAP so you can determine when/if to implement Plan B. And when they aren’t, you implement your plan B to avoid impact to the project’s outcomes. Your Plan B might include talking to him about his job performance or what have you. or it might not. It depends on the risk to the project outcomes.

          1. NW Mossy*

            I was thinking about this from the point of view of holding people accountable to their specific tasks on the project. For example, if Wakeen is supposed to provide copies of his teapot polishing procedures to the group for analysis, the PM sets a deadline for Wakeen to do so and then ensures that it happens.

            My view, however, may be skewed because we often see projects bog down because of lack of completion in project tasks, not the tasks that the project ultimately impacts.

      2. Us, Too*

        Start by asking to take on small projects at your current job. You can build up to more complex projects over time as you gain skills and confidence. You can track your hours/tasks/results for any project, small or large, and use them for your PMP certification. PMI doesn’t care what your official job title is. (Or didn’t the last time I checked!) :)

        Honestly – the formal education stuff is all well and good, but you become an excellent PM by practicing it. And screwing it up so that you can learn from that and continuously improve.

        FWIW, my opinion on the PMP certification: it means nothing to me other than someone is good at taking tests and has worked in the field a while. I’ve met crappy PM’s who have it. And I’ve met excellent PM’s who don’t. The only reason I got mine is that it was required because I worked in a role that wanted to be able to advertise that 100% of it’s PM professional services departments had x, y and z certifications. (To justify our $$$ hourly rate). When I took the test, I had to constantly remind myself that the test is about asking “what would PMBOK do?” as opposed to “what is the best way to have a successful project outcome?”. LOL.

      3. Guam Mom*

        Yes–there are tons of PM roles that don’t require a certification. A lot of entry-level jobs are listed as Project Assistants, Project Specialists (sometimes with varying levels of experience, as in Project Specialist 1, 2, and 3) or Program Managers. But there are also lots of just general, entry level PM positions that don’t require certification. However, some fields (science, construction, manufacturing) mostly do require certification at some level.
        Hours are built up from working in project-related fields and by taking courses to earn CPDUs (continuing professional development units). If there is a university near you with a continuing education department, see if they have any project management certificate programs available. A lot of them will occasionally offer an evening seminar/lecture for free or host open houses for the programs (or have some online that you can view) which can be a good place to learn more about PM overall and see if it sounds like something you’d enjoy.

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          I’ll throw my 2 cents in on this one. I work in a medium sized company that doesn’t have project managers. Instead, technical managers are tasked with the types of cross-functional projects that project managers would normally do. If they’re successful, they keep getting bigger projects until they’re functioning mostly as project managers even if they’re still listed as technical managers on the org chart. I’m in the middle of this now and I like the balance, tbh.

      4. Witty Nickname*

        I got most of my PM experience through the day to day project management I did in non-PM roles (I was in marketing and managed product launches, sales trainings, etc. I didn’t have a PM, so I did all of it myself, but I didn’t actually realize I was doing it then). I got my PMP about a year after I moved into an official PM role.

        I ended up moving into the role when a former manager called me and said, “hey, I’m building this new team and need a PM. I think it’s a perfect fit for you. Are you interested?” She was actually the second of my managers to suggest that – before she became my manager, the person I worked for told me “I wanted to let you know that we’re going to reorganize the team, and everyone is fighting over you. I want to keep you on my team, but the only way I will be able to is if you move to a project management role.”

        I had the same thought both times. “That sounds like the most boring job in the world!” Heh.

        The second time, though, it was going to be a promotion and former manager was the best manager I’d ever had at that point, so I decided to at least look into it. I ended up deciding I wanted it, depending on the offer, and while I was waiting for the offer to come through, my current team reorganized and I was put on the org chart under former manager (in a completely different department within our organization). Thankfully, the offer, while less than I had been hoping for (because I had zero room to negotiate at that point), was something I was ok with, so I became a PM!

        And what I discovered was, I was meant to be a PM. I project manage EVERYTHING anyway, I might as well get paid for it! I’ve moved mostly into program management now, but still do project management (both within my programs and for one-off projects for my team) and like it even more. I’m hoping to get my PgMP certification next year, since my company is willing to pay for it.

        Some of the PMs in my company have their certification, and others don’t, across all levels (from entry level to VP). I got mine because my former manager thought it was good to have and was able to get the company to pay for it.

      5. LH*

        I recently entered the project management field myself; I’m a marketing project manager for a technology company and I am not certified (yet). Since you asked how people get into project management, my background was in marketing and business development at technology companies. My last job was at a very small company reporting to a managing director who hated dealing with the details of running a company and wanted to focus only on sales. Since he also worked remotely half of the time, I ended up unofficially running the office day-to-day. I dealt with everything from securing financial and IT resources, vendor management, writing business proposals and negotiating with government officials on top of my actual sales role.

        While it was an absurd situation, it ended up providing invaluable experience for my new PM role. I realized there were a lot of transferable skills, the key ones being: keeping everyone on the same page in terms of responsibilities and timelines, following up regularly with stakeholders to manage expectations and getting projects out the door on-time (and on budget). Maybe you have experiences with these skills in your current workplace (even if it’s not officially under the PM umbrella) that you can sell in interviews.

        I will say though that I think some formal PM training would have been helpful prior stepping into a new PM role. I have been doing a lot of reading on my own time and I’m looking to take the CAPM test in January while I build up my required project hours for the full PMP certification.

    5. Us, Too*

      My two cents worth…. When I’m interviewing PM’s I don’t care about the programs they have experience/skills using. What I’m primarily looking for is a track record of delivering projects on time, on budget and on scope with happy stakeholders. I don’t care what tools you use to do that. :)

      (I have never seen a project fail because an otherwise excellent PM couldn’t figure out how to operation MS Project. Projects fail because the PM isn’t good at risk identification/mitigation or communication, typically).

  31. Joshua*

    I’m a nonprofit fundraiser working at an arts organization. I come from Chicago, but I am now at an organization in a smaller and more conservative area. I moved here because of my boyfriend’s job.

    Question about how to best handle this when speaking with donors and community members. I usually try to leave my boyfriend out of it and say how much I love this organization and this community. But, I’m finding most don’t leave it at that. They ask “do you have any one here?” or “what prompted you to even start looking in this area” or some other question in this vein.

    I’m very comfortable with myself, and in Chicago I wouldn’t think twice about saying that my boyfriend works for X and transferred here. But, there are definitely more conservative mindsets here and I don’t want to potentially turn people off from my organization because of political ideologies. Should I be concerned about this? Should I just say “partner” and be generic? I’m probably over thinking this.

    Thanks!

    1. Former Diet Coke Addict*

      “I relocated here with my family this year.” If you’re committed enough to your boyfriend to move for him, that’s family, and no need to go into details. “My partner’s job sent us here” would be more than enough if pressed.

    2. J*

      Oh gosh. I wonder if “partner” isn’t just as transparent as saying “boyfriend”?

      If you’re applying to arts organizations, I’m sorry to stereotype this, you may find that you’re among welcoming people. But you can’t know that in advance.

      Maybe just use partner and hope for the best? Good luck!

    3. Murphy*

      I think partner or family is fine. (I’ve heard lots of unmarried straight people use “partner” before, so I don’t think it necessarily implies anything.)

    4. Anonish*

      I’m a woman in a relationship with a man, and I would use “partner” in that context. “We moved here for my partner’s job” sounds more professional than “boyfriend,” no matter the genders or ages of the people involved.

    5. Minion*

      I hope I’m not misinterpreting your question – it’s because you’re a guy and you have a boyfriend right? You didn’t come out and say that and I’m not that great with subtleties sometimes and I’ve misinterpreted before!

      I live and work in a very conservative place and I also consider myself conservative. I wouldn’t blink an eye at your mention of your boyfriend and having moved here due to his job. There definitely are places here that would, though. You could look at it in a couple of ways, I guess. If someone acts like a jerk toward you or gives you the feeling that they have a problem with you, you can self-select out. Or seek a lawyer at the first opportunity. You shouldn’t have to do either of those things, but sadly, some people just don’t understand how to be a decent human being.

      But there are those of us who really wouldn’t have a problem with it and would be happy to evaluate you based solely on your qualifications and to have you on board. You don’t know going in who you’re going to get, so I’d say don’t censor yourself out of some concern for a jackass’ delicate sensibilities. Sometimes that’s easier said than done when you need a job, though.
      Sorry you have to even think about it.

      1. Minion*

        And I wasn’t trying to be a jackass with asking about the guy with a boyfriend aspect of your question. I really do sometimes read things a certain way only to find out later that I completely missed something and feel stupid. It seems straightforward, but if you only knew!

      2. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

        Yes, in my conservative community most people would take partner = boyfriend. Most wouldn’t really care. Family is true, but generic.

    6. General Ginger*

      I’d say “partner”. I’ve heard plenty of straight folks using “partner” for a boyfriend/girlfriend who is serious enough to move for, so I wouldn’t think anything about your use of the term “partner”. Saying you moved to be with family, or relocated to the area with family would also work.

  32. Berry*

    I can’t stop my family from meddling in my job search!

    I had what I thought was a good interview about two weeks ago, and I know all I can really do is hope that I stand out amongst the other candidates. It was for a Teapot University, in their offices (not faculty), but my aunt happened to go to the school many years ago when it was Chocolate Institute. She decided to reach out to some old professor she knew to get him to chat me up or something, but this is after my interview and he has no real connection to the office that I interviewed with. (She gave him a copy of my resume, which I did give her some time back to pass along to a completely unrelated job opportunity.)

    I’ve been a bit of a pushover when it comes to letting my family help me (in terms of giving my resume to other people that they know), but in this case I’m nervous that this professor, who knows nothing about me and is just reaching out on my aunts behalf, will make everything worse and affect any positive impression I had in my interview (and that if/when I don’t get the job it won’t just be because of other qualified candidates but because of family meddling). I’ve still been applying to other positions but I can’t help but have this worry lurking in the back of my mind.

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      Omg, I had the WORST time a few years back with my grandpa. I had just moved across country and he told me, “One of the guys I play poker with has a daughter who works in the same city. He gave me her number! You should call her and ask for a job!”

      Oh that rubbed me the wrong way. My grandpa felt he was doing me this HUGE favor (and it was kind of him to try to help), but seriously, you give me the first name of a woman and expect me to cold call her about a non-existent job opportunity? How would that call go? “Hi, my grandpa knows your dad who lives 1800 miles away. I have no work experience, but could you keep me in mind if anything opens up at the prestigious firm you are employed at?”

      My grandpa kept at this for years. I think he was really offended I didn’t follow his “lead”….

    2. chocolate lover*

      I don’t think you’ll really have to worry that would have a negative impact on you. If the professor is unconnected to the department, it’s unlikely he’d say anything to them anyway. Heck, even if he was connected, they’re often in their own little bubbles and unlikely to go out of their way about it. He probably tossed the resume after your aunt gave it to him.

      Good luck!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      If I were you, I’d take control of my job search now. Don’t give them your resume. Don’t post on social media about your job search (you probably shouldn’t do that anyway, but especially where they can see it). Don’t give them any ammo or info, or as little as possible. If they have a suggestion of someone you can contact, say “Thanks; why don’t you send me their info/that website and I’ll look into it.” Don’t let them contact people on your behalf. If they protest, tell them, “I’d really rather send it myself, thanks.” Smile, nod, lather, rinse, repeat.

      Practice saying, “Thanks, I’ve got it,” or “Thanks, I’ll take that under advisement,” every time they say anything. The idea is to own your job search and communicate that to them by handling it without their help (whether it’s pushed on you or not). If it helps, practice with a friend and have them come up with all kinds of arguments so you can say it in reply to anything. And if they start nagging you about it, “Hey how’s the job search going?” ad infinitum, you can bean-dip, as they say on Etiquette Hell: “Great! Oh by the way, have you tasted Sylvia’s bean dip? It’s fantastic!” How about them Dodgers, did you see that hilarious Hey-for-meow cat on Facebook, etc. etc. etc.

      They shouldn’t really be doing this for you–and if they’re not, then you won’t have to worry about awkwardness.

    4. Anon Accountant*

      You can tell them “send me info on that job posting or give me his email because I like to take iniative in my job search. It makes me feel proactive and good to take iniative by checking it out myself/emailing him”. And when asked how your search is going “ok. So how about that football game? Who do you think is headed to the Super Bowl?”.

      Repeat as needed.

  33. Mazzy*

    I’m at BEC stage with my coworker. He is very busy being busy and important and thinks he is at a higher level than he actually is without any indication from others that they think he is at that level or deserves to be or is qualified to be. I think I am most at BEC with him because I understand his technical work more than almost everyone else, so I can tell when he is sugar coating or taking the lazy way out of something, usually pretending he has researched or analyzed something in depth when he’s really just skimmed a few articles or pulled a few data points and looked at them for ten minutes. Meanwhile there are lower level people who’ve looked into these topics for days, and he gets equal floor space to talk as they do, even though he talks out of his ass.

    I’ve dealt with my fair share of entitled people, but I usually get to a point where I see that they do at least a few things really great, so I feel a tad better working with them. But it’s been a few years and I still haven’t had that moment with him. I rack my brain every day trying to figure out what triggers someone to wake up every day and this that they are so great. Do they really think they are smarter and better than other people? What happened to make them think that?

    What kills me is that working for an egalitarian company, he gets treated the same as people who bust their ass. Employers seriously need to get that treating employees fairly doesn’t mean treating them the same exact way in all situations.

    2. so, so, so anon*

      I am so with you here with a colleague. It takes every ounce of strength and my maturity muscles not to sigh every time he opens his mouth or when someone else sings his praises. How can they not see through his bullshit? How is it he makes more money, (this is public information) just got promoted, and has a teflon reputation? I just keep repeating to myself- keep your eyes on your own plate. Thank you for letting me vent.

  34. Anon de Plume*

    I heard an amusing and bewildering story from my former workplace recently, which I sadly can’t share in its entirety, but I’ll just ask:

    What would you do, dear AskAManager commentariat, if you were a manager in a small organization (where everyone knows each other a little too well) and have just noticed that one of your employees, Maggie, is not good at her job? WITH the complicating factor that her daughter, Jane, is also not good at her job, but was hired because of her mother, and is the employee of the manager of a related department, who also happens to be your toady/best friend?

    1. Manders*

      Oh, what tangled webs we weave…

      I think that if you’re Maggie’s manager, all you can do is manage Maggie (and maybe manage her out, if the situation is that bad). Jane’s performance is not your problem, and the other manager can deal with her or learn to work around her.

    2. Bend & Snap*

      They’re totally separate issues. Address Maggie’s performance; the rest of the context is unrelated and up to Jane’s manager to handle.

    3. Chris*

      Pave the path to the outcome you want. The outcome you want is for everyone to meet the needs of the business with respect to productivity / skills, and there are shortcomings. The manager of the related department is obviously the one in this situation who can cause any unpleasantness in the situation to expand beyond the solutions needed, or can help minimize the impact of whatever solution you choose. Obviously they are the one you need to discuss the situation with.

      I would identify clearly the business needs that are not being met by YOUR employee, and ask the other manager for advice on resolving the situation. Mention that there is a concern that due to the relationship, your problems may be spread to the other manager’s team, and you’d like to avoid that. In this way, you can identify clear business needs that are uncontestable, and the other manager should have the same goal as you; minimizing conflict in their own team by containing the problem. By asking them for advice / assistance, you’ve protected your own working relationship with them, and shown respect to them.

      If you outline the shortcomings properly, they will likely internally use the same meter stick on their own team and realize the daughter also falls short, but you don’t need to tell them how to solve their own problem. A good manager will realize the same suggestions they give you apply to Jane also. A poor manager may not, but you can’t solve problems outside your scope.

      1. Chris*

        Although, on a re-read, since you describe the other manager as your ‘toady’, it implies you have a responsibility towards their career / skills development too. So if the realization doesn’t occur to them on their own, you could probably nudge them in the right direction.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Let the chips fall where they may.
      I would address Maggie’s problems and the rest is not my circus.

      If your best friend does not understand this then that would be a separate issue. If your best friend loses Jane because Jane is ticked that mom got fired/written up, that is yet again another separate issue.

      We cannot control how other people act/react. All we can do is be professional and expect the same of others.

  35. Pearly Girl*

    I got a job!

    I’m so pleased. I used a LOT of the advice I’ve read here, to be sure… but beyond that, I think it was also definitely a matter of my skills fitting their needs, and the hiring manager’s comment that she and I had good rapport, and that certain crucial skills of mine were above the other interviewees’.

    A good full-time job with benefits — for a 62-year-old. It can happen!

    1. Pearly Girl*

      Oh, and as far as salary negotiations: they made an offer (HR called me), I expressed how happy I was to get the offer, and mentioned that I was hoping to get closer to X+5k. She told me she would talk to the hiring manager. Called back the next day and said they were offering X+5k!

      I was expecting something in the middle, so imagine my surprise!

      1. Callietwo*

        Fantastic! As one in her late 50’s… I can relate to the relief you feel when things work out well! Congrats!

      2. Good_Intentions*

        Pearly Girl:

        Congrats on the terrific news!

        Also, I’m very impressed with your negotiating skills. You really deployed Alison’s advice well and have such an inspiring success story.

        Thanks for sharing and enjoy your new job.

      3. Woman of a Certain Age*

        I’m glad to hear it!

        While not in the same league, I at least had an interview today for what sounds like a promising job. The interview was with the person who would be my immediate supervisor and the person who holds the same position for at the company’s corporate headquarters in another state. I felt like I connected well with the potential immediate supervisor, but guy from corporate headquarters kind of gave me “that look” that seemed to be dismissive. I thought the interview went fairly well for me, though. I felt fairly relaxed and I think I was able to be myself in the interview. I guess I’ll wait and see.

  36. Needing sleep anon*

    How do you survive a horrible job?

    While I like the team I work with, the organisation I’m in is going through lots of uncertainty and changes, and seems to be horribly dysfunctional (People can be mean, or unhelpful, and I know I’m really unhelpful to some people, as I get told to prioritise some things and ignore others, which I hate)

    I’m in the middle of a huge project that currently means long days and weekend work. It will end soon, and things should get better then (or at least less busy) but I’m not sure how to last until then.

    I haven’t been here that long, so I can’t look to leave yet, plus roles in other organisations aren’t really equivalent in responsibility, so would either be a step up, which I’m not qualified for, or step down, which would mean less money.

    Any tips on how to just survive this until it gets better or I get out?

    1. Good_Intentions*

      Needing sleep anon:

      Ouch, I’m terribly sorry that you’re stuck in such an awkward and dysfunctional work environment.

      Beyond focusing on your huge project and trying to bolster your own profile to update and polish your resume, the only advice I can suggest is being civil and keeping a low-profile at work. Your co-workers are likely to engage in rude and unhelpful behavior with colleagues they know better and who provide ample opportunities to engage.

      Are you able to spend time alone in your office concentrating on work? Can you listen to podcasts and take regular breaks (walk around the building, make a point of going to a nearby coffee shop for a pick-me-up, etc.)?

      You have my sympathies. Please just keep your head down and don’t take the sniping and unprofessional behavior personally.

    2. Marisol*

      Pack as much fun, satisfaction, and pleasure into your personal life as you possibly can. Read Regina Thomashauer’s books.

    3. Drew*

      First of all: prioritize self-care. When you aren’t at work, do things that bring you joy and make you better and happier. Try hard to leave work at the office and not let it affect you when you’re away from there, especially when work itself is so toxic.

      It sounds like you can’t avoid being unhelpful because of crashing priorities, but you can at least be pleasant and apologetic: “I’m sorry, Jane, but I’m on a really tight deadline to get Wakeen this spreadsheet and I just can’t help you right now. Do you want me to look for you when this is done? It’s likely to be a couple of hours/tomorrow/next week, just so you know.” Or, if you can’t even promise that, “Jane, Fergus told me I had to focus all my time on Wakeen’s spreadsheet right now, so I’m afraid I can’t stop to help you out.” The key is to communicate that you aren’t blowing Jane off because you want to but because Fergus gave you instructions, and in a way that says you wish you weren’t so tied up on this other project.

      Good luck!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Let people know what priorities you have been given so they don’t keep asking.

      To survive a toxic job, I put a lot into diet, nutrition, rest. Treat yourself to a massage at regular intervals if that is possible. Soak in a hot bathtub or shower to loosen up tense muscles. Read books at night that are calming and soothing.

  37. Mature Intern*

    I just finished an internship at a great company with a fantastic team. It’s a big part of my transition into a new career after waiting way too long to get out of the old one and being lost and directionless for a while. But while I left with a lot of accolade and fanfare with references coming out of my ears, the company is on a strict budget and unable to offer me anything at the moment. (I knew this going in, but in this industry, they were the most likely to hire.) I feel hopeful about my future and want to leverage this experience into related industries or jobs, but today I’m so tired and more than a little heartbroken. After years of feeling like a total oddball in one office after another, I finally found a place that I did amazing work at with people I respect, and then I had to leave.

    Please join my pity party. I’m serving tea and toast. (But just for an hour, because I’m applying to something in the afternoon! Thanks to Alison for all her tips and that amazing book.)

    1. Me2*

      I’m sorry you didn’t get on with them as hoped. I’ll bring some homemade scones and lemon curd to your pity party, I find scones and tea make everything easier to deal with. Good luck with your new application!

      1. Mature Intern*

        Much appreciated! On a literal level, I cannot wait for crisp fall weather so that I can start baking scones again. :)

        1. Me2*

          I’ve been experimenting with making french macarons (not the coconut ones) which are easier than I’d been led to believe. Anyway had a surplus of lemon curd, which is never a bad thing, so I made scones even though it’s sunny and seventies here.

  38. Manders*

    Marketers, how do you explain what you do to other departments? I’m one of several people in the marketing department at a small law firm, and I’m the only one who doesn’t do much with IT or HR work on top of marketing duties, so I’m a bit cut off from the rest of the staff to begin with.

    Sometimes the paralegals will get excited about a big accident they’ve heard on the news and tell me to go get that case (I can do my best to put ads out there, but going after a specific person even when I can get their name and info is waaaaay over the line ethically). They’ve also gotten frustrated because I seem “tech savvy” but can’t fix certain computer problems, because they don’t really understand the difference between someone who has basic HTML skills and someone who has the authority to reset the server. One also treats me like an admin assistant and gets visibly peeved when I can’t tell her off the top of my head where a certain type of stamp or envelope is stored in the supplies room. The legal staff understand what I do a little better, but have been complaining to me that there are too many people calling in and it’s exhausting (but more calls = marketing department win!). I’m about to spend three days out of the office at a big conference and I’m sure people will think I’m on vacation or getting special privileges.

    How do I navigate this politely and professionally? No one wants a lecture on SEO, but I just don’t know how to explain what I’m doing all day in a way that the people who are complaining to me (and, I’m sure, about me) will understand.

    1. Temperance*

      Are you a woman? If so, you need to draw stronger boundaries with the paralegals who are treating you like support staff. This is also true if you’re a man, but in my experience, women are more likely to receive this sort of crap treatment than men because no one looks at a man and thinks “secretary!”. Practice saying “I don’t know where X is, ask one of the assistants”. Don’t worry about being overly helpful or nice when it’s actually a detriment to you.

      You don’t owe anyone an explanation of what you’re doing all day. Do you go around asking people what they do?

      1. Manders*

        Yep, I’m a very young-looking woman. :/ You’re right, I think I need to practice setting boundaries and sticking to them, even if it makes some people think I’m being unhelpful on purpose.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      This is a bit tough because I think a lot of law firms seem to be a little “new” to the idea they need marketing (same with medical and dental). Not only that, but it seems like you’re filling the marketing communications/public relations role as well at your firm.

      Marketing is the process of getting your business noticed by the people who need or want your products or services, building a customer base, and spreading the word about your products or services. Advertising and selling are part of the process but there is much more involved, including and especially detailed statistical analysis to form a sound marketing strategy.

      I don’t know if that helps much, as I also sometimes struggle with this, when it’s not a definitive as say sales or customer service. But you can focus on the statistics and numbers (Campaign X brought in xx new clients with a revenue of #X to the firm) and that type of thing.

      I’m just curious as to why you’d think people would assume attending a conference = special privileges?
      This is WORK, or at the least part of learning and staying on top of trends. Do others in the office not attend similar things that apply to their work?

    3. zora.dee*

      what you need is someone above you to have your back, and from what you’ve posted before, it sounds like you might not have that. :o( But is there a partner or someone who really understands why your position exists?

      In places I’ve worked disconnects like this have been solved by things like giving you a slot at a monthly or yearly staff meeting, a few minutes to explain why marketing the firm is important, what you have accomplished in the past Xtimeperiod, and what you need from them to help you market the firm for everyone’s benefit.

      Or for someone of authority to send out an email or make an announcement: “Manders is working on important projects to bring in new clients. I need all staff to cooperate with these specific tasks that will make this successful. 1. When you have a particularly happy client, ask them if they will talk to Manders to give some testimonial quotes. 2. Ask all the clients how they heard of us. 3. etc.” If you have a good person above you, you could even draft this email and ask them to send it periodically. (once a quarter?)

      A good company makes sure all departments are integrated to some extent so that everyone knows why every dept is important and basically what they do. If no one will help you do this, then people suck. I hope there’s an easy way to fix things!

      1. Manders*

        I have two bosses who understand my accomplishments and why my position exists, and they’re both great, but it does confuse the issue a bit because they have certain duties and permissions that I don’t have. So a lot of the huffiness is happening when the person they actually need is out of the office or otherwise occupied, and they don’t understand why I can’t or won’t do the thing they’re asking for.

        I have a lot of sympathy for the staff, they’ve very busy and anxious about making sure they get good cases and get their work done, but often that comes out in the form of getting frustrated with me or refusing to accept my explanations of why thing X is the way it is. I did suggest sending emails out to the staff when marketing completes a project that the paralegals might be interested in knowing about, but my boss didn’t think that was necessary. I definitely get the sense that there’s an office “grapevine” that I’m not part of–there’s never any official announcement of things like employees leaving, but everyone else already seems to know and is surprised that I don’t know.

        1. zora.dee*

          Oy, yeah, that sounds tough.
          I would try pushing back one more time on your email suggestion, though. I think if once in a while (like once per quarter) an email went out about something you accomplished, it wouldn’t be ‘too many emails’ and it would really help you in the future because people would know more about how to get you info that would help you do your job. Come up with some concrete arguments about why you think those emails would be a good thing, and ask him again?

          Other than that, maybe it’s something more informal in some offices, of getting coffee/chatting at the water cooler, with employees in different areas more often and casually chatting about the cool stuff you are working on, or how this campaign is going, etc.

          I think your main issue is a disconnect between departments, though, which is a common workplace issue, and a valid concern. So, don’t feel bad about being frustrated.

  39. Alter_ego*

    My annual review is in two hours and I can’t focus on work at all. I have that anxious feeling in the pit of my stomach. This is what happened last year, and my review went incredible, but what if that just lulled me into a false sense of security? I took on some new responsibilities this year, maybe I’m sucking. Waaaaaaaaah!

    1. Good_Intentions*

      Alter_ego:

      I feel your pain and just encourage you to breathe.

      Given that you’ve already gone through one annual review with this employer and succeeded, I have no doubt you’ve adequately prepared and will once again shine.

      I would also bear in mind that annual reviews are meant to be an open and constructive conversation between employee and supervisor. You shouldn’t encounter any surprises and should feel comfortable owning up to both your successes and trouble spots.

      It’s perfectly natural to be nervous, so just keep breathing and remember it’s Friday.

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Definitely go to the bathroom a few minutes before and do some power posing in a stall. It literally boosts testosterone and other confidence-priming hormones. You can do it!

    3. SophieChotek*

      I hope you can now breathe/focus and that it all went well and that you can now enjoy your weekend.

  40. Joseph*

    Wondering if anybody shares my pet peeve: I hate it when people are listing their phone number and say the number super-fast. “Hey, sorry I missed you, this is John with Vanilla Teapots, call me at [blur of numbers]. I’m calling about teaming on the Chocolate Teapot order.”
    Someone leaves a message like this on my voice mail at least once a week. I can replay the message to catch it, but seriously, would it kill you to slow down even just for that part? Or say the number twice or something?

    1. Rebecca*

      Oh, I hear you! I think people get so used to saying their phone number that it makes sense to them when they say it, but it comes out in an unintelligible blob of nonsense. I tend to speak to quickly on the phone, so when I need to call someone, and end up in voice mail, I use the time listening to the voice prompt to take a deep breath, remind myself to slow down, and when I give my phone number and extension, I say it very slowly and enunciate each number, just so the person on the other end doesn’t have to replay the message several times.

    2. DevAssist*

      That bugs me too, but not as much as when I call someone, leave them a voicemail, and then have them immediately call me and say. “Someone called me.” ??? I don’t like repeating myself all the time, and if you call two days later because you saw you missed a call but didn’t listen to the message, it can be frustrating for myself and other staff to figure out WHO called you and WHY….just listen to the message then call if you have questions or need to follow up!

      LISTEN TO THE VOICEMAIL.

    3. Margali*

      Oh, you have ALL my sympathies — that’s my least favorite part of voice mail. I know I make a distinct effort to speak slowly when leaving my own call back number, and I usually state it at the beginning and the end of the message.

      1. Good_Intentions*

        Margali:

        Yes, leaving your return telephone number, along with name and company, at the beginning and end of a message greatly reduces confusion for the voicemail recipient.

    4. Temperance*

      I hate that. I alway sleave my name and number twice in a message, and think it’s rude when others don’t.

      I get a lot of calls. If you want something from me, and it’s outside of my purview, I’m not going to call you back if I have to listen to your message twice. Sorry not sorry.

    5. Kelly L.*

      Yesssss. I try to say the number at least twice when I leave one, so that even if both instances get garbled, maybe with luck the same digit won’t get garbled. If you hear 123-scratch567 and then 1scratch3-4567, you can reassemble it! :D

    6. zora.dee*

      Seriously, this is one of my biggest pet peeves, too. I not only repeat my number twice as others said, but I make an effort to slow down and pause (briefly) in between each combination of numbers.

      I might be biased because I worked a job where I made literally hundreds of phone calls per day sometimes, and that involved getting messages as well as leaving them, but GAH why don’t people get this??!?!?

    7. Maria*

      Also when they don’t leave the number and say something like “Call me at this number.” I work at a small family-owned company with bare bones equipment. I don’t have caller ID, so you’re out of luck.

    8. ASJ*

      This has been one of my biggest pet peeves since I began working as an admin assistant. Bonus points for the people who are speaking a different language (in my case, French) because then it’s twice as impossible.

      It did, however, teach me to always say my number twice when leaving voicemail. I usually leave my name and number at the start, and then finish with the number again at the end.

    9. Nicole*

      Big pet peeve of mine as well. I say my name, give my number slowly with a pause between, like 555 pause 555 pause 5555. Then I leave my message and at the end say “again, this is Nicole at Company Name” and leave the number with pauses.

      What irks me besides having to listen to the voice mail twice to gleen the number are those people who say their company name so quickly I have no idea who they are even after listening to the message multiple times.

    10. Rebecca in Dallas*

      Yes, that is so annoying because you have to listen to the whole message again, sometimes more than once. (At least my VM system is like that.) I always repeat my name and number twice.

    11. Marisol*

      Yes it’s thoughtless and has an air of self-importance to me. Can you ask on your outgoing message to “please leave your phone number slowly, or I may not be able to return your call” or something like that?

    12. Chaordic One*

      I used to get very annoyed with a former co-worker who would speak very quickly when giving her unusual first and unusual last hyphenated name when making travel reservations. She seemed to speed up when giving her name and would then always act peeved when people asked her to spell it.

      My own last name, while fairly common and shared with several celebrities, is not spelled phonetically and I don’t mind spelling it out for people so they can have it written down correctly.

  41. Ann Furthermore*

    Keeping everything crossed that I hear about a job today.

    About a month ago I applied for a position that popped up on an alert that I received. I had a preliminary interview with the HR person, had my resume, the job description, and my questions all prepared. I gave a quick recap of my background and he said, “Wow, you’ve got awesome experience, I’m giving your resume to the hiring manager.” The interview lasted all of 10 minutes.

    Had a second interview almost 3 weeks ago with the hiring manager. It seemed to go well and we talked for almost an hour. Sent the thank-you email and he replied and said I was the first person he’d spoken with, so it would take some time to get through the rest of the interviews. OK, fine. Both he and the HR guy said they would have “next steps” for me “soon.”

    Last Monday I sent a follow-up email to the HR guy, asked if they’d filled the position, and said I was still interested. He said they’d have an update for me “soon.” This past Tuesday (so just over a week later) I emailed again and asked if he had a timeline for when a decision might be made. He said he’d have an update for me “this week.”

    I know I can’t reach out again, but the waiting is killing me. Patience is not one of my virtues. I would think if I was out of the running, they would have just told me that instead of continuing to string me along, but of course I know there are no guarantees. I would just like to know one way or the other. I was hoping I’d be able to come back from Labor Day Weekend and resign from my current job.

    1. Clever Name*

      Having been involved in the hiring process at my company, it takes FOREVER. Even longer than the people involved in the process think. Like one of the decision makers told me to tell applicants that we’d get back to them in 2 weeks, when I know it takes us more like a month to respond. Are we jerks? Maybe. But I think it’s more that busy people often get sidetracked with things that rise to the top of the pile, and hiring someone, while it is very important, just isn’t as pressing as finishing a report when an impatient client is breathing down your neck.

      I totally understand. Waiting sucks, and I’m an impatient person too. Allison’s advice to mentally move on from a job you apply to is sound, albeit very difficult.

  42. The IT Manager*

    This is an observation or musing more than anything else. I used to have force myself out of the house to be social because it would be good for me. I am having a more active social lately. The negative impact is that sometimes I’m getting less sleep because of it. Not crazy late nights, but if I get home at 10pm, it could take me a couple of hours to wind down which is past my “bed time.”

    Being tired makes staying motivated to work is a lot harder. I can’t miss meetings, but on quieter days where I have unscheduled time where I am supposed to work convincing myself to start on anything especially the big projects is a lot harder. I guess I’m having trouble finding my work-life balance even though I am only asked to work 42 and a half hours a week and I don’t have a commute. So it’s not like work is intruding on my life any more than expected for an full time job in the US, but still … I just really wish I could work less hours and I’d be happy to take a pay cut, but that’s not an option for my employer and my job (which would normally be exempt). I am also unwilling to sacrifice benefits because I am a naturally conservative / risk adverse person, and in the US it’s your job not the government that provides healthcare and retirement benefits.

    So in order to not be too tired to work and to keep doing a good job, I may have I have to learn to be selective and turn down some of these fun opportunities. Which is a shift because I used to have to force myself to not turn down any social opportunities.

    OTOH even before the more active social life, there were some way too late nights on the internet or watching TV. Being less productive because I was out interacting with the world is better than that.

    1. Chaordic One*

      You sound like a classic introvert. I don’t know what to suggest. You seem to have a good handle on the situation and what you need to do about it.

      Maybe someone else has some good ideas about how to cope with your situation?

  43. Anonymous overconcerned student*

    Hi all! School question here – I am currently taking an online class that involves an IM system and the instructor has encouraged everyone to upload a profile picture that will show up with their messages. No big deal, although I’m not huge on putting my picture out there when it’s a bunch of strangers, but not a major issue. He also DMed me to remind me to add one (think I’m the only one w/o a picture yet- about a dozen participants total – but one other person had a picture of their pet instead of themselves) and said “It really makes a difference on how people respond to you.” For some reason, that really weirded me out – it makes a difference if everyone knows I’m a twenty-something caucasian woman? I mean, I get that it’s online and it’s nice to “see” who you’re talking to since we can’t actually talk in person and get the body language and facial expressions, but what someone looks like _shouldn’t_ impact the way we respond to them! Am I overreacting here, or does this seem off to you guys too? Any suggestions on how to respond?

    FWIW, I had a situation like this previously that involved making a resume website with my name and picture, and I was like “Ha, nope!” and made one with a fake name and resume and a stock picture instead of my info (cleared it with my professor, but no way was I putting all that out there – if I wanted it publicly available, I would have LinkedIn, not a ridiculously amateur practice website). Sooo, I could just use that picture and let the professor know what I was doing (picture of a professional-looking woman about my age leaning against a granite building with a newspaper), but it’s still woman-my-age and why should that affect anything?

    And obviously everyone would know my age and gender if I was in class with them, and it wouldn’t bother me a bit! It’s just something about insisting on that information when it’s irrelevant and doesn’t naturally come up. Also, I’m happy to share information in general, but I also clam up and get super private as soon as someone insists on information or feels like they have a right to have it.

    tl;dy Professor is requesting profile pictures for online IM and says it will affect the way people respond to us. Is this weird, and what should I do?

    1. Temperance*

      Do you have to use your own photo? I have coworkers who use Star Trek, Hello Kitty, She-ra, … okay we’re a bunch of nerds, but still.

    2. Dangerfield*

      People do respond better to someone when they’ve got a face to put to the name – even if that face actually happens to belong to your cat! I wouldn’t put a stock picture up – it could be really awkward if you ever meet them in person.

    3. Raine*

      I don’t think it’s weird, it sounds like your professor is hoping to encourage polite thoughtful discussions and thinks that having a name and face to attach to someone will help students think of each other as real people and not faceless bits of data you occasionally have to respond to for class.

      I’m not sure how sound this is (having your name and picture on facebook certainly never stopped some of the comment wars I saw on there) but it could well be he noticed a pronounced uptick in civility when everyone was clearly identifiable.

    4. Karo*

      I get where he’s coming from – there’s actually a good bit of research in the marketing space that shows how profile images lend credence to a message. As others have said, I’d use an image of something that is blatantly not you, and preferably not a real person at all (e.g. if you love Hermione Granger, use a drawing of her instead of a picture of Emma Watson dressed up).

      1. Judy*

        Or use an avatar builder to build someone like you.

        I’ve got the coolest (to me) one done when the Peanuts movie came out. It’s me Peanut-ified.

    5. Bad Candidate*

      I think your prof probably means it humanizes you more. Like they say, on the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog. If someone sees a picture, it’s a mental reminder that there’s a real human being behind the message.

    6. Meemzi*

      My avatar is often a cartoon-me that a friend drew. You could make one on one of the many avatar or doll sites. There was the hipster one that got pretty popular. I think someone here uses that as an avatar.

    7. LadyKelvin*

      Can you compromise a bit and use a photo that can’t be explicitly you but is still you? Allow me to explain: Often times for profiles that are public-ish (like vacation rentals or couch-surfers) I use a photo which gives you a basic idea of who I am without a great view of my face so that random people don’t know who I am. I usually use a photo from a distance or a profile/view of my back. Photos of me hiking on a ridge are good candidates for this. I’d think about using a photo of doing something you enjoy so that you seem more like a person without being a super personal headshot.

    8. Swoop*

      my boss’ requirement for profile pictures on IM is ‘something with eyes’ – it gives people something to focus on and talk/type to (people in my org use various birds and animals, I don’t think anyone has their actual pic :) )

    9. Anonymous overconcerned student*

      Wow, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions everybody! It helps to know that this isn’t as weird as it was sounding to me. I was all set to put up a cute animal picture (with eyes!) and checked with the professor that that would be okay and he sent this back: “No, sorry. That will just set everyone up thinking they can put up stuff. You are a nice looking person with a nice smile. Just put your portrait up and be part of this interactive and fun group.”

      Now I’m back to being weirded out. :/ I’m thinking I’ll try a more distant shot like Lady Kelvin recommended, but I don’t know if that will fly. I already put my picture in an initial post for a different part of the class (which bothered me also, but that part was partially graded on including the picture), but having it on the forum we use every day with a bunch of strangers. Tbh, it’s the insistence that’s really turning me off – no, you can’t make me put a picture up if I don’t want to, and you sure as heck can’t do it by telling me I look nice. No. Way.

      1. Anonymous overconcerned student*

        Oh, forgot to ask – any suggestions for websites to cartoonize pictures for free? I found a few, but they are more photo-effect type (so, looks pretty much like me with more contrast and brighter colors). I’d love the Peanuts one!

        1. Anonymous overconcerned student*

          Okay, found an avatar maker! I uploaded it to the IM site, so we’ll see if he says anything. Pretty sure he thinks I’m totally paranoid by this point, but oh well.

      2. Drew*

        I’m wondering if the prof wants your faces so HE can see them, since he probably has dozens of students and this will help him match “person on IM” with “student in my History of Teapottery seminar.”

      3. Yup*

        It’s really not weird, and I do think viewing it as a come-on is an over-interpretation. You’re a class that has discussion – talk to each other! That means, as pointed out above, “humanizing” and identifying yourself to your classmates. No one outside the class will see the pic.

        And yes, your professor would also likely appreciate a visual reminder of who you are amidst his/her 78 other students. Please don’t read too much into it and get defensive. This is low-stakes. There’s creepy behavior, but this, on its face, isn’t that (trust me that your prof can access your student profile in a jiffy, which has your pic on it already).

        1. Anonymous overconcerned student*

          Thanks for your comment! This is an online class, so I don’t have a student picture on record (and wouldn’t give them one). I’m not interpreting it as a come-on, but it felt weirdly demanding and sort of gross to say basically, “Aw, just do it – you’re pretty!” My looks have nothing to do with whether I should put up a picture for class! For context, my hackles go up if my friendly, but nosy and gossipy, older female coworker starts asking where I’m going to school, what I’m getting my degree in, if I’m doing anything tonight, and “Oh! You’re not getting a can of Coke this morning? Why not!?” It’s not that I think she’s going to _do_ anything with the information, it’s just that it’s my personal information, and my life, and, in this case, my picture, and no one has a right to it just cause they ask for it.

          So, I’m not freaking out over the request (and thanks for the reality check! – I mean that sincerely), but I’m ticked when someone, especially someone in a position of authority, requires anything personal. You don’t have a right to my personal information, no matter how innocuous. And, yeah, I know I’m super touchy about this. :/

      1. Anonymous overconcerned student*

        Ha! I’d love to do that. Sadly, I don’t think that would fly. He already turned down my request for an animal picture. :(

    11. Anonymous overconcerned student*

      The cartoon avatar me passed! He said, “This looks okay. Much better than [animal]. Thanks.”

      1. Pennalynn Lott*

        I’m on the executive committee of a student organization at my university. We have to put up a poster with our pictures on it in the “hallway of clubs” (a hallway where all the business clubs have their own display). I sent the person in charge of the poster three pictures: One of the “logo” I use on my LinkedIn profile (which is pretty much a simplified monogram of my initials), a picture of one of the baseball caps I always wear to school (because I’m too lazy to get dressed up for class), and one of an avatar I created at avatarmaker(dot)com. Hopefully the administration won’t object to whichever one our marketing person chooses to print out, because I haven’t let anyone take my picture in at least two decades and I’d rather drop out of the organization than be forced to post a photo of me anywhere.

    12. Chaordic One*

      I really like my old Yahoo avatar that I used with Yahoo Messenger, but everyong quit using that a long time ago.

      1. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

        Fortunately I saved some of my Bitstrip avatars. People ask how I got it to look just like me. I use it in places I want a more lighthearted picture. I’m still recognized, but it’s not a formal photo.

  44. KatieKate*

    I’ve completed my firstish week with the new role! I love my team, I love my office door, and I have so much less stress than expected with changing positions.

    Now a fun question! Where can I get cute/cheap stuff to put on the wells? I have walls (!!!) to decorate!

    1. Amber Rose*

      I just print out comics and pictures. People stop by now just to read my filing cabinet, which is covered in them.

    2. Temperance*

      I have a huge collection of kid art, Funko pops/Star Trek, and soccer stuff. If you aren’t as openly nerdy as I am, I would recommend dialing down the Star Trek. ;)

      1. KatieKate*

        I already have a Hulk bobblehead and an “R2D2 Do’s” notepad on my desk so no worries about hiding my nerdiness!

    3. Prismatic Professional*

      I used really cheap but colorful fabric to decorate my walls! A lot of people still comment on them! I hung them up and randomly draped pattern so they look kind of like modern art and not just a block of color. :-)

    5. Anon13*

      Etsy has always been one of my favorite sources. I’ve found some cute prints of Leslie Knope quotes, if that’s your thing and something that would be well-received in your workplace. My workplace is, unfortunately, kind of stuffy, so I can’t hang them up here, but I have some in my home office.

      1. Drew*

        I am reminded of the time I found a cartoon in my daily Dilbert calendar that SCREAMED “this is your boss and this is your workplace” to me. So I put it up on a small corkboard that usually no one but me saw.

        One day, my boss came to my office for a Serious Meeting, closed the door, read the cartoon, and said, “That’s really funny. Good thing no one here acts like that.”

        Readers, that was the day I started hunting for a new job.

    6. Emilia Bedelia*

      It’s mostly aimed at kids/teens, but I have had good luck at Five Below for cheap decorative stuff. Very hit or miss, but I’ve found some cool things, especially if you’re crafty and open to a little spray paint.

      TJ Maxx/Home Goods/Marshalls is also great if you have slightly more expensive taste (but still pretty cheap!)

    7. Elizabeth West*

      I had Star Trek, Harry Potter, and Star Wars posters on my cube walls stuck up with those velcro coins–I just put them on the back of the posters and they clung to the walls. They did come down recently, though; I never look at them at work because they’re behind me! :) I’m redecorating at home, so I’ll hang them up where I can see them.

      A plant will make your office look more homey too. A pothos is good because they like fluorescent light and are very hard to kill. Mine is named Horace. :) That reminds me–I need to water him!

    8. Camellia*

      Take your time. You will find stuff that speaks to you in some way, makes you laugh, inspires you, etc., and those will mean more to you than stuff you just run out and get in order to fill up your walls. And you will enjoy the hunt! :)

    9. SophieChotek*

      If you lived near me I could give you tons of cheap/fun stuff to decorate your walls. I used to save calendars (those art wall calendars) for that exact purpose…finally decided I need to clear my stashes…

    10. Trixie*

      I have been in good sized cubicle for seven months now, and kept it minimal. Odd because it’s the one space all my own ( do not live alone) but I think I like keeping it organized. I looked at so many ideas on Pinterest but most too much. I did bring in a lovely potted plant, and am eyeing some succulents and airplants. A simple tray to keep my keys, sunglasses, passkey. I’m thinking about a simple lamp for indirect lighting. I think I appreciate the uncluttered look more than anything else when I come in each day.

    11. Honeybee*

      Etsy! I found some cute custom designs related to the games I work on at Etsy pretty inexpensively. Some of them I even got digitally, so I printed them on fancy photo paper and framed them cheaply and bam, office decor.

  45. Amber Rose*

    I’m rewriting and revamping a lot of stuff right now. Or preparing to. I have the power! :D

    We have a system called the daily tour where I go around and get each of the 5 supervisors to sign off that everything is OK. If everything isn’t ok they can say that too, but then I’ve already heard about it. So it feels redundant and it eats up a chunk of every day.

    I don’t want to get rid of it because that’ll be a flag during next year’s re-certification audit, so I want to replace it instead. But I’m not sure what with. A weekly tour? A tour with no signatures? Something totally new and exciting? … A meeting? (Just kidding.)

    Online won’t work, some of the supervisors don’t have computers, or are only on them once in a while.

    1. ArtK*

      Signature or not depends on the standard you’re being certified against and how strict the auditor is. We have some customers who are pharma companies and they can be extremely picky about stuff like that. In one case, even though we have an electronic signature system, they insisted that we upload copies of everyone’s physical signatures and all documents be printed, signed and scanned. Took quite a bit to talk them out of that.

      I’d take a page from the agile process. Schedule a weekly stand-up meeting. 15 minutes with everybody in the room, standing up (helps make things go faster.) Go around the room and ask for an update. Publish the minutes. Next meeting, pass the previous minutes around and have them signed, if that’s still a requirement.

      If there are issues, especially cross-group issues, they can come out at this point. If there is already a standing meeting with all of the managers, you can use that as instead.

  46. Temperance*

    I just wanted to thank everyone who comforted me last week when I complained about my husband getting offered a job super-close to our house while I was in 90-minute-each-way commuting hell.

    He ended up accepting a different (better) job that will have a bit of a commute, and SEPTA got their crap together and my commute is now much more reliable and reasonable. I feel like an actual human again.

  47. DevAssist*

    At what point does “The Boss” delegate too much?

    In my position, our CEO delegates EVERYTHING it seems. I don’t mean that there are many outlandish non-work related tasks assigned to staff, but everything from calling board meetings, annual scheduling, etc. seems to be delegated. One example- if someone calls us angry or with a time-sensitive issue, our CEO won’t take care of it in a timely manner, and then my coworkers and I keep having to try and reassure people that they will receive a response. I’ll talk to the CEO: “Mr. Smith called 3 times in the last two days regarding the issue of fixing his teapot before the date you two previously discussed. That date is coming up soon.” Then the day of or just before the deadline, the CEO will email me: “Call Mr. Smith. The crack in his teapot can’t be repaired by us and he should look elsewhere.” REALLY?!? You couldn’t tell him that before the deadline?? I wasn’t part of the initial conversation! Why is this suddenly my responsibility?? He will be mad and it will look like my fault.

    While my boss isn’t a bad person, the example set is just strange to me. They delegate a lot of tasks that I would actually think should be their responsibility (plus, their EA left and there was no reason given, so the tasks that an EA would hold have now been assigned to other staff members and there is no intention of hiring a new EA). And yet, while staff is expected to clock in and out on the dot, the CEO will send emails at all hours of the day, including on weekends. Overtime is a necessity not often granted, so my direct supervisor is working 2 (sometimes even 5 or 6) hours of overtime off the clock every day to stay on top of the work.

    I’m sorry to have kind of a rambling question/rant, but while I work with good people, there is a crap ton that my company does that I disagree with.

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I don’t have any suggestions, but I can tell you that an old CEO had an issue of responding to urgent issues. Ya know…like approving the budgets for the next year, approving projects that needed to start the next week…things like that. Our directors got fed up and started leaving for other jobs.

      1. DevAssist*

        Jessi- I can and I do, it’s just that I can tell on the client’s end it feels to them like we are giving them the run-around. For more background for the example I gave, each time I took the client’s call, our CEO asks that we never tell a client we can’t fix their teapot and only that their teapot can be fixed. So, if that is what the Client is told 3 times when wondering about when his teapot will be repaired, he is rightly going to be annoyed when I call him and tell him otherwise.

        Part of what drives me insane about my job is the amount of messenger shooting we have to endure for various reasons. Communication just isn’t good.

  48. But I'm the Fun One!*

    I’ve been working as an HR Coordinator for over five years now at a company of about 100 people. I sort of fell into to the job, but I really enjoy it – I do recruiting, onboarding and also coordinate various fun company events. (No forced attendance for those, I promise!) I’m used to being the HR person that people are happy to see – I welcome them to the company, and hand out the birthday and work anniversary gifts.

    However, I have found out that I may also have firing/laying off people added to my responsibilities in the next six months or so. I’m nervous about what this role change will mean for my relationships with my co-workers. I’m REALLY nervous about how to handle it when I will have advance notice that someone is heading for being fired or laid off. How do you smile at and make chit-chat with someone in the lunchroom when you know you’ll be lowering the boom on them in the coming week? Any advice on how best to handle this role change is welcomed.

    1. BWooster*

      You just kind of get on with it. Yes, the feelings of other employees towards you will change. It will hurt and will drive you crazy if you don’t get used to it. There is no shame really in feeling these kinds of things deeply and to allow them to affect you. I work in tandem with a woman now who simply can not deliver negative news be it of discipline variety or termination. I’ve had to take that on because someone had to. I’m more or less fine with it but the woman I replaced couldn’t deal with it. It caused depression and unhappiness and she had to move or quit.

      1. Chris*

        As the person who has to make the decisions on hirings and layoffs, and inform people, I can tell you layoffs are without a question the worst thing I have to do. In my opinion, it should be. When you offer someone a job, you are committing to them that you will do your best to offer them stable employment, and a path to growth in their career (At least in my industry). When you take on that responsibility, you should never feel good about ending someone’s employment. If you do, you’re probably not the right person for the job.

        You absolutely have a responsibility to show people you have to inform the most respect and consideration you can, and to do it in person. In my role, I also remember that the decisions I have made, were made to provide the best outcome possible for the largest number of people, and that doesn’t always mean everyone gets the news they want. I also believe that there are few others who could do this function who would care as much about the team as I do, and therefore I am probably the best person for the job.

        And then you do it, and you let people see you are not happy about it, and you don’t treat it with one ounce less seriousness than it deserves, and if you can correct the reason it was necessary, you do that. If you can’t, you accept that it will likely happen again, and your job will still be to do it with dignity and respect.

    2. Graciosa*

      There isn’t a magic formula for this – you just have to do it. I wish there was something I could say that would make it easier.

      One thing I will point out is to be very wary of the desire to break the rules / give people a “heads up” about something coming / change your interactions / start avoiding people it would be hard to deal with. These impulses are generally rooted in the desire to make things easier on *yourself* rather than in concern for the other person. It is absolutely hard to know these things and never give even a hint of them. It is a burden to bear this knowledge.

      The result – hey, we’re human – is often that people rationalize to give themselves an excuse to put that burden down and the effect is that you’re actually just transferring it to someone else.

      The other person wonders why you’re not stopping to chat the way you used to, or hey, now they know they may be on “the list” but don’t know all the details of the package and timing (or worse, don’t really understand that these things change in a blink). We had one significant employment activity change drastically in the last hour before it was announced – it really isn’t over ’til it’s over.

      Don’t assume people will be mad at you for knowing and not showing it. Some will be mad, and some will be thankful you didn’t make it harder on them with advance knowledge or changing your interactions or letting them wonder if everyone else knew from how you behaved what was coming. This has everything to do with the individual affected – it is a matter of their reaction – and not you. You need to respect their responses – whatever they happen to be – without letting it tear you apart.

      And wow, is that hard to actually do.

      But you need to be professional *for them* and I assure you that this is usually harder on them than on you. You need to be strong enough to set aside your own pain in dealing with this in order to do what is best for them.

      It doesn’t ever get easy, but you do learn to deal with it by practicing. Best wishes.

      1. Margali*

        Thanks! I think I’ll definitely need to remember this, “One thing I will point out is to be very wary of the desire to break the rules / give people a “heads up” about something coming / change your interactions / start avoiding people it would be hard to deal with. These impulses are generally rooted in the desire to make things easier on *yourself* rather than in concern for the other person. It is absolutely hard to know these things and never give even a hint of them. It is a burden to bear this knowledge.”

  49. Former Diet Coke Addict*

    This is my first week at my new job, and the woman I’m replacing had her baby early so I’ve been thrown in the deep end all alone! It’s getting easier every day, but I can’t wait for the point where it’s no longer super awkward and I know everyone and I can just do my job instead of asking a million questions.

    And wow, hardcore impostor syndrome. I cannot BELIEVE they’re trusting me with all this! I can’t stop thinking they’re going to tell me they made a mistake and they need to hire someone more qualified!

    1. Good_Intentions*

      Former Diet Coke Addict:

      You worked so hard to secure this new position, and have been such an active and supportive member of the AAM community that I, a total stranger on the internet, have complete confidence in your ability.

      Besides, all new jobs have a bit of awkwardness while you’re learning the ropes and figuring out the office quirks. Please know they wouldn’t have hired you unless you were qualified and that you are up to the challenges of the position.

      Enjoy your weekend!

  50. Amber Rose*

    Ok, so now I have a separate story to share. Our rock radio station does prank calls on Fridays. Today they did something a little different. They called random people at random businesses and asked them to pretend to be a job reference. Most of them agreed! And then the station called them pretending to be the job, and they seriously awkwardly tried to promote this person they didn’t know at all.

    Not sure if this is touching, or disturbing. It was funny anyway.

    2. Sophia in the DMV (DC-MD-VA)*

      Most those radio bits are fake and are hired actors because of laws and recording without permission

      1. Mreasy*

        They get the permission afterwards, though – obviously not everyone will agree to use the recording, but there are legal ways to make it happen.

  51. BWooster*

    For two months I waited for my provisional offer to change to a formal offer. I’d get sporadic emails about needing to submit this and that but no update or hints about the timeline or anything. I emailed a few times asking for an update and got nothing.

    Finally I worked up the courage to just call and ask and had the most surreal conversation I’ve ever had. I was told that they had everything they needed and nothing further was required and oh by the way, am I aware that my starting date is first week of October? No I was not aware as I hadn’t heard from them in nearly a month! Well yeah, it is first week of October and it is quite rigid and they’re unable to push it back. And that is how I ended up going into work on the first day of my holiday to give my notice which will now have to be only a week and a half and not three or four weeks I’d hoped to give as my current employer has always been fantastic to me.

    That leaves me with three weeks to find a place organize a move to a city three hours away. Why is government hiring such a massive clusterfudge?

  52. Squeegee Beckenheim*

    So I have a highly irritating coworker who I deal with by playing anthropologist and making mental notes about weird stuff he does to report to friends and family. This week was the best week ever because I first found out that his sorta-girlfriend is a PET PSYCHIC, which was pretty great. And then I found out the next day that he’s taking classes to be a shaman. So if I ever get cursed at work, now I know who it will come from.

    3. Charlotte Collins*

      Last night I watched the episode of Detectorists where Lance has to help out in Mags’ New Age shop. I’m imagining conversations like those.

      Just remember: quartz crystals give a mild feeling of paranoia…

    4. Dynamic Beige*

      Well, it is true that black magic is one of many occupational hazards in the workplace today. But perhaps as a shaman, he will choose to do white magic.

    5. Bad Candidate*

      Don’t knock it. I think it was Seth Green who said he was having a problem with his cat peeing outside the litterbox at night. They took her to vets, vet specialists, vet behaviorists, no one could say what was wrong. At the end of his rope (and his GF or wife, not sure which) they contacted a pet psychic who told them that the aging cat’s vision was going, and she had problems at night getting around the house because she couldn’t see. They put up some night lights, and the cat stopped peeing outside the litterbox.

      2. ThatGirl*

        I find it bizarre that the VETS didn’t notice her vision might be going. That doesn’t seem like the sort of thing you’d need a psychic for.

        1. Bad Candidate*

          I had the same thought, but that was his story. Still. There’s good and bad at each job out there. I’ve had really good vets and I’ve had vets that I wouldn’t trust to be able to figure out how to check my pets heart rate.

          1. Jersey's Mom*

            I always remind friends that hey – your doctor/specialist/vet could be the guy/gal who graduated dead last in their class.

      3. Dynamic Beige*

        I was at a health and wellness expo, which had everything from people selling artisanal soaps to pet psychics. Someone was giving away free readings, so I thought why not? My one cat is terrified of The Crate. He won’t even go in boxes (actually neither of them do). When I say terrified, I mean close all the doors, limit his access to hiding places, chase him around the house for 30 minutes until we’re both tired and sweaty terrified of The Crate. I’ve left it out for him to explore (and he will go in it, until he sees me then he runs out of it), I’ve sprayed it with Feliway and catnip. I’ve put in one of my shirts. No dice. When he gets put into The Crate (which is a size for a medium dog, it’s huge for a cat), he gets so stressed he has seizures and vomits when he’s not yowling. The ceasing of crying is usually a sign that he’s seizing and puking. Anyway, the pet psychic said (she needed to look at a photo) that he associates The Crate with death, that he saw litter mates or other cats going into The Crate and never coming back. That was something I hadn’t thought before, that he could have held a memory of being a kitten and seeing that — I found him as a dumpee when he was about 5 months old (it took almost two months to catch him because The Crate).

        I think I have to try putting my other cat in her crate (which is a normal cat-sized one) and take her outside, then bring her back inside and let her go for a week or two. She’d go off with the Devil himself if he was carrying a bag of Temptations, she has no problem getting into her crate. Maybe if he sees her going in, leaving and then coming back several times, he’ll feel more secure.

        1. Jersey's Mom*

          I’m firmly convinced that domestic animals can form weird connections between objects. One of my dogs, which we’ve had since she was a pup, is fine with rolled up magazines being used to swat bugs. Doesn’t flinch. In fact, may try to get the bug after it’s been swatted. Pull out a .99 cent plastic flyswatter from Costco, and she goes into a full-blown panicky guilt frenzy. Once the flyswatter is put away, it’ll take 5 minutes of constant reassurance petting to calm her down. We’ve never hit her with a flyswatter (or a rolled up magazine), the flyswatter has never fallen on her, she’s never been ‘threatened’ with the flyswatter.

          We just call it the mystery of the flyswatter. Now when she’s sometimes going bonkers (she’s an austrailian shepherd) we tell her “we’re getting the flyswatter out” to calm her down. And it works. Sometimes their brains just work in bizarre ways.

    7. Squeegee Beckenheim*

      Also, I should note we’re both engineers, which is not a profession I usually associate with any kind of belief in the supernatural.

    8. Anon0909*

      The irritating and annoying I can empathize with, but I guess I’m not so quick to knock other people’s belief systems, and I don’t really like the idea of making fun of them for them. I don’t think it’s far fetched to consider or to believe connections to things we can’t explain in our world. I understand as a scientist that’s not how your mind works, perhaps.

      But a large percentage of the world does believe in an afterlife in some form or another and/or a greater being, so believing in connections that we dont understand, imo, isn’t that far off. Just because we can’t see it.

      This isn’t meant to be a discussion on religion/beliefs/etc, just in that, I don’t really like the idea of making a joke out of people for having a belief system different from my own or what is considered “typical.”

  53. Rebecca*

    Open thread! I’m on vacation from work this week, and have spent as much time outside as humanly possible! I rode my bike, went hiking, walked a lot, and just relaxed. I watched zero TV. It’s so wonderful not having a schedule, and seeing/breathing/experiencing the outside. I’ve been trapped in a windowless office for 14 years and I just hate it. To make matters worse, my manager told me that we would be moving offices around, and I would be moved to an larger office space, with windows, to share with 2 other coworkers. I looked forward to the move for 6 months, then when I asked about it, she said plans had changed, and no one is moving. Sighs. I’m not really surprised.

    I may need someone to physically pry me out of bed Monday morning and force me to go back to work :)

  54. JMegan*

    Calling brightstar, and anyone else in records and information management! I’m thinking about studying for some kind of certification in the field – likely the CIPP (Certified Information and Privacy Professional), but the ICRM and CIP are both possibilities as well.

    For context, I have a rapidly-aging Masters degree from 2000, and I’ve been working in the filed since then. RIM work until about 2014, and mostly Privacy since then. So I’m wondering if the credentials would actually be likely to enhance my career at this point? Or at least, would I learn anything from studying for them (versus is it mostly entry-level content, that I probably already know after doing it for sixteen years?)

    Also, obviously there’s a difference between the CIPP and the other two, but is there a significant difference between the ICRM and the CIP? Do employers generally prefer one over the other, or are they about the same from an outsider’s perspective?

    Any thoughts, experiences, etc are welcome…thanks!

    2. brightstar*

      I can only speak to what I saw while I looked for a Records Manager position (which was from 2010-2014). I didn’t see a lot of requests for CIP certification, but the ICRM certification was more prevalent as in if certification was mentioned, the CRM was the one mentioned. But I work in more traditional RIM and not privacy.

      My specific plan for myself is to get the CRM (my job pays for it and I will get a pay increase upon acquisition of certification, which you think would mean I study more than I currently am) and a CDIA + certification. The technology portion of the CRM is, I understand, notorious and it was recommended by several CRM’s that I know. The CDIA + book is about $40 on Amazon and the test itself is under $300. To get the CRM, the cost is close to $1,000.

      Are you planning on staying in more of a privacy role? I think that will determine which certification is better for you.

      1. JMegan*

        The CIP is pretty new – I’m not even sure it was available in 2010, so that might be why you didn’t see it at the time! My impression is that the CIP is more broad-based (information management in general) than the CRM (records management in particular.) And the CIPP of course is specific rather than general as well.

        Lots to think about – thanks for your help!

    3. Damn It Hardison!*

      Fellow RIM professional here! Another certification is the IGP (Information Governance Professional), sponsored by ARMA. A industry group that I belong to did a survey last year of members, asking which certifications did members have, look for when hiring, etc. There was just barely consensus that the IGP was more helpful than the CRM, mainly because the IGP was broader and more up-to-date. I have a CRM and would agree that the IGP is more current (esp. about technology).

      I honestly haven’t seen all that much about the CIP – and I get AIIM emails all of the time. I don’t get the sense that it has caught on. There’s been talk that AIIM is becoming less and less relevant, so that might be an indication of its value.

      In terms of employers, it really depends on how much a RIM/IG professional has been involved in drafting the job description and qualifications. I’ve seen entry-level jobs that ask for the CRM, which is a dead giveaway that someone doesn’t know what they are asking for. I see CRM more in job descriptions than the IGP, but generally as a nice-to-have not a requirements. For now I think the CRM is still more recognizable but I think the IGP will catch on.

      1. brightstar*

        I’ve been curious about the IGP, but don’t know a lot about it. I thought I was just out of date not seeing much about the CIP. Is it something you’re considering getting?

      2. JMegan*

        Oh, I will look into that one as well. Thanks!

        And don’t even get me started on job descriptions that were written by someone with no actual knowledge of the job. The worst I’ve seen is a “start from nothing, give us records management!” type deal, CRM preferred, for $30K. Reporting to an EA. Ummmm….yeah. No. But thanks for putting all that in the job ad, so I can screen myself out ahead of time!

  55. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

    So I just need to vent and see how common this is in other workplaces.

    I’ll start off by saying I am salaried and get no OT. But when I joined, I signed a paper (sort of a contract?) that said my set hours are M-F 8am-5pm with 1hr for lunch. There was no talk of working earlier hours or travel, it was supposed to be all hours strictly at the corporate office location. (And recently they’ve been forcing more and more travel on me because I live alone and am not married so I don’t have “reasons” I wouldn’t travel… But that’s another post.)

    So yesterday, I had to arrive and start work by 5:25am. I am a manager who has employees in the field, and I was told that I should ride one day with them to get a better perspective on what they do. Fair enough, and I understand why that was asked of me. But it was asked of me on Tuesday to rearrange the field operator’s schedule and mine to make this happen. Short notice, which was annoying but it happens.

    But when I returned to the office (around 2pm, an 8 hour day in the field), my Director told me that I had to stay until 5pm because “your contracted hours are until 5pm and under no circumstances are you allowed to leave earlier.” I had work I needed to do, but it grated that I was singled out to be told that specifically. There are two other managers in my department who also have done the same thing in the past two weeks, but were allowed to leave as soon as their ride-along was over! I honestly can’t comprehend why we aren’t being held to the same standards in this matter.

    Should I have pushed back? Should I just let it go? Does this happen often in other places?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Does this happen often in other places?

      Unfortunately, yes, based on what I’ve read on this website. That’s kind of a crappy thing to do to make you start work at 5:25am (almost three hours earlier than you would have) and then make you stay until 5pm, as if you’d started at 8am.

      my Director told me that I had to stay until 5pm because “your contracted hours are until 5pm and under no circumstances are you allowed to leave earlier.”

      Unfortunately, responding to this properly would get your director upset at you for no good reason, but this makes no sense. Your contracted hours are until 5pm, but your contracted hours also start at 8am, not 5:25am.

      Technically, it’s not illegal, but it’s super horrible.

      1. KatieKate*

        I think after the new laws kick in it will be illegal to not pay her overtime for this, depending on her salary though. Not sure what the laws are right now.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Are you sure? It sounds as if Abby Don’t Read this! (or do, it’s your choice) is an exempt employee. How do exempt employees earn overtime with the new laws?

          1. KatieKate*

            Not sure at all. But I think the exempt/non exempt laws are bypassed by salary levels? But “Abby”‘s situation is strange. How can you be both salaried/exempt and have contracted hours?

            1. Karo*

              A lot of organizations use “salary exempt” to mean “you’re expected to work overtime without getting paid.” They don’t actually offer the flexibility a salaried exempt position is supposed to have. If I have to go to a tradeshow that starts Saturday, I’m expected to do that on my own time. But if I have to leave early for an appointment I have to make it up (and pointing out that I gifted the company 20 hours last month doesn’t count).

              1. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

                Exactly! I commonly work 50+ hour weeks, and for the new law on Dec. 1, they will have to raise my salary to meet the minimum. I even do a lot of driving for the company (but I pushed to be reimbursed for that which legally they have to do here) on my days off.

          2. Karo*

            They’re changing the exempt salary threshold by a LOT of money – Come December 1 it’ll be 47,000 (ish) instead of the 23,000 (ish) it currently is. So if she’s making in the 23-47 range, she legally can’t be exempt anymore.

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              But if she’s making $48,000, it won’t matter how many hours she works—she won’t be paid overtime.

                1. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

                  The raise wouldn’t be substantial, so it would be very little savings while I searched. I’m going to start editing my resume again this weekend and decide what to do after my review (November 2nd(ish)). Most likely, I will apply elsewhere because I want to move and I do want to work in a different industry (slightly).

        2. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

          Laws in my area currently make me exempt, and I am honestly not sure in December what the company will do in terms of compensation (raise the salary to match the law or grant OT at current salary). I’m hoping for the raise, but then I’d still get dragged into situations like this and not be compensated for OT, so…

    2. Pwyll*

      Perhaps it may be helpful in a week or so to sit down with your manager to ask about this.

      “As you know, my contracted hours are from 8 to 5, but in order to go out in the field with employees as you’ve directed, I would need to start working at 5:30 am. How should we handle that moving forward?” If he pushes back by saying you’re exempt, perhaps add:

      “I’m happy to rearrange my work schedule as needed to get the job done by working early or staying late as necessary, but I don’t want to go against our contract, which says I’m not supposed to start until 8. Perhaps we should revisit the contract in light of the field reviews?”

      It’s perfectly legal what they’re doing, but you may be able to get some leverage by pointing out rigid adherence to the end time but not the beginning is just as much a violation of the agreement as leaving early might be. But I’d frame the entire discussion as ‘You’ve asked me to do additional things so how should we handle my documentation’ as opposed to an argument about numbers of hours.

    3. Wee Raspberry*

      Contracts are supposed to protect both parties, and if “under no circumstances are you supposed to leave earlier” than it can be argued that “under no circumstances should you be required to start earlier.” It’s pretty unreasonable, and worth talking to your boss about, I think.

      1. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

        I will try, but the weird thing is HR said it as well. So HR and my boss are in agreement about this particular issue, which means that I can’t get assistance from HR if I need it.

          1. Abby Don't Read this! (or do, it's your choice)*

            That’s just my luck. If you can believe it, this place is about 1000x better than the last place I worked.

  56. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Had a job interview this week… for a job that doesn’t exist yet, but I think it went well! Several of the local agencies here are looking to expand their offerings and they need someone with my background and skills. I met with 5 people in a 2-hour window and got to know a lot about the company, the culture, etc. But I realize I didn’t learn much– or ask much– about the day-to-day. Things like hours and schedules and overtime and even benefits. I’m hoping they ask me back so I can clear that up. We also haven’t discussed money at all, and ordinarily that wouldn’t bother me, but the other agency I’m talking to asked about it upfront– I don’t want to go down an enthusiastic path and find out the salary doesn’t work for me. Red flag? Or simply something that they’re trying to figure out too?

    But all in all, it was a pretty good experience. All five people responded to my follow-up messages, which was nice of them. And I just had a conversation with someone at another agency about freelance work. Onward!

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Good luck! Usually, most organizations will have a second interview for candidates, and that’s when you can ask about day-to-day or benefits and any other questions you may have. Assuming this was a first interview. That’s great to hear that all of your interviewers followed up with you!

  57. Anon13*

    Those of you who have successfully transitioned from administrative work to non-administrative work, how did you do it? Of course, admin work is important, often difficult, and crucial to the success of any organization, so I’m not knocking it, but I am not suited to it at all. I neither enjoy nor excel at it, but have had a difficult time even securing an interview to do anything else. I’ve talked up my transferable skills in my cover letters and have highlighted my accomplishments on my resume, but I’m not getting much traction. I currently work for a small organization, so there’s no room to move up or move to a different department. Compounding things, when I’ve interviewed for administrative roles at larger organizations, they seem to want someone who is looking to do this type of work for his or her entire career. I’m guessing that’s because they are higher-level administrative positions. I can’t even get interviews for lower-level administrative positions, probably because I have too much experience and the organizations assume I’ll be looking to leave soon. This is my long-winded way of asking for advice, personal anecdotes, or encouragement! I know this topic has been covered here before, but I’m always looking for extra words or wisdom. Thanks!

    1. Manders*

      I had a lot of free time during a slow period at my last job and I volunteered to do some marketing projects. I also did some marketing for my partner’s side gig. Then, I seriously lucked out and found an entry-level marketing position at a small company in the same very niche industry, so I could show that I was coming in with some industry knowledge that other applicants didn’t have.

      I had been sending out applications on and off for about six months, and turned down one previous job offer because the company had bad Glassdoor reviews and was proposing something not-strictly-legal with making me a 1099 contractor. So I did have to kiss a whole lot of frogs.

      The awesome thing about working for a small company is that you can have the opportunity to try on a lot of hats, see which fits the best, and get some career experience that way. The lousy thing is that there’s rarely room to move up or into another department.

      1. Anon13*

        Thank you for your story. Your last paragraph rings true – I am the only non-attorney at a small law firm, so I am responsible for work across a variety of areas. For about 9 months, maybe a little longer, I’ve been working on some marketing-related projects, so I think I’ll go back over my resume and make sure those are highlighted.

        1. Manders*

          Hey, I’m currently working in marketing at a law firm! Legal marketing is a hot field right now, I bet your experience could give you a leg up if that’s a field you want to stay in.

          1. Anon13*

            Sorry for the delayed response – I have been looking quite a bit at marketing in general, but maybe it makes sense to focus it a little more. I’m glad to know the field is hot at the moment!

    2. Mature Intern*

      I had the same problem, so I looked at what I wanted to do long-term and took a direct stab at that industry. My problem right now is starting from the bottom-up all over again, and it’s hard to break past the student/intern barrier into full-time worker. I suspect contract and temporary positions are the next hurdle.

      Some people manage to slide in somewhere laterally even without direct experience, but I realized I needed actual training for what I wanted to do. So I started with an evening course and then branched out to join committees, workshops, and seek out professional mentors and connections.

      Good luck to you!

      1. Anon13*

        Thanks for the encouragement! I don’t mind starting a few steps down from where I am now, but would prefer not to have to start completely over as an intern (and, frankly, since I’m single and have a mortgage, car payment, etc., I’m not sure I can afford to). Hopefully I can figure out a way to translate at least some of my experience, so I can start with the jobs that require, say 2-3 years of experience.

    3. EA*

      +1/a million

      I am going through this as well. I am an EA who wants to go into project management. This is what I am doing.
      – Making my resume- Executive Assistant- Project Management Office (I do work in it and took this job specifically to get that experience). Then listing all PM duties and only one line for Admin duties. Also, I made sure not to put the title in bold because I do not want to draw attention to it.
      -Cajoling/begging my bosses to give me more project management duties. I have gotten some and I need more. I have been here almost a year so it will be a big part of my annual review.
      -Used my tuition reimbursement to take a PM class at a local university.
      -Took training held at my employer in Lean Six Sigma
      Basically, I am trying to tailor my resume very specially to the job I want. I want it to say “Look how much she has done to try and be a PM”. I am not applying for new jobs for another year, but this is the game plan. TBH, I am super nervous about it working, I have several unsupportive people in my life that like to say I am just an assistant and that there is a stigma associated with my job.

      I would say tailor your resume as much as you can, have a goal job, and ask your boss if there is ANYTHING she can give you to help you get to your goal, if you have that kind of relationship. If all fails after some time, I would consider making a lateral move, to a larger organization and specifically screening for growth, it can be hard, but I found jobs that were willing. Good luck, I know its isnt a situation that feels great all the time.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Some people do see a stigma with admin roles, but those are people who haven’t worked with rockstar admins. I know many assistants who can step in and cover manager’s positions, run projects, and handle major initiatives.

        1. EA*

          Yes. They think that it isn’t even worth it for me to try to transition because it will never work. I tend to think some people will look down on me and others won’t, and it only takes one to get a better job. Also, like, what is the alternative? Wallowing in a job I don’t like?

          I will say to the OP, the process has been disheartening, but I have met and found examples of people who it worked for. In the AAM community and in real life. So it can be done.

          1. Temperance*

            My own family thought I should be a secretary, too. My mother was devastated when I decided to become an attorney, because I thought I was “better than” other women. Uh, no.

            It will work. Some people might judge you, but others won’t. Especially since you’re doing a lot of PM work.

      3. Anon13*

        Thanks for the encouragement and good luck to you, as well! I’ve tried to tailor my resume as best I can, but I’m going to really go over it with a fine-toothed comb. My boss travels a ton and I’d prefer to talk to him in person, but I’m going to put some time for us to meet on his calendar when he returns. It’s a small operation, so there’s no room in the budget for him to pay for expensive courses, but I’m sure he’d be more than willing to give me some time off work to take some.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      I thought that all I would ever do was be an administrative assistant. One of my jobs was very data/financial heavy and I had no resources to help me so I had to teach myself advanced Excel and a lot of database skills. I moved to another company as an administrative assistant and they picked up on the data skills and before long I was a Data Analyst. I was given all the training I needed to expand the role.
      There isn’t much advise in that story, but admin work does give you exposure to all sorts of skills. If you are dependable, then your company can trust you to pick up other tasks like billing, marketing, or data. If one of those is interesting, you can leverage your resume with a few classes.

      1. Anon13*

        My current job is actually somewhat financial heavy, as well, but it’s probably one of my least favorite aspects of it! Thank you for letting me know what worked for you, though. Hopefully I can take one of the other aspects of my current job (marketing, PR, etc.) and learn to really shine in that area.

  58. TMA*

    I have been in my current job for a little over two years. I love the organization and want to work here long term (great pay, great benefits, great coworkers). However, the work that I am currently doing is not what I want to be doing forever. It is not what my degree is in, and I honestly, just don’t really like it.

    I recently applied for another job here that is more closely aligned with what I want to do long term + it is what my degree is in. I haven’t heard anything in about 3+ weeks, and I think it is unlikely that I will even get an interview. I really think it is a lack of related job experience.

    A job outside of my employer has opened up and it is closer to what I want to be doing long term. I think I’m going to apply for it. But then what? What if I get it? I want to work at my current employer indefinitely, but I don’t like the current work I’m doing, and I think it is unlikely for me to get a job at Current Employer that is closer to my degree and long term goals because I don’t have as much related job experience that they are looking for (and I’m not going to get it in my current role).

    So what to do? Make the jump outside of my employer to get needed experience to get ultimate job at Current Employer? Or just stay put and hope that I’ll eventually get my ideal job at Current Employer?

    1. Anon13*

      I would apply outside of your current employer and, during the interview process, make sure you really screen for culture (in addition to making sure the actual position is a good fit). It’s tough to do, but there are always little clues regarding what the culture is like. You can directly ask some questions about it, too! Good luck.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I second this. I get not wanting to leave if you really like it there, but not liking what you’re doing isn’t going to get any better, and Current Employer may never have what you want.

  59. Tick Tick*

    I live in the UK. I am 5 months through a 6 month probation period at my new job.

    My boss at my catchup mentioned that he would be considering my mental health (I missed 3 days week for mental healh reasons) and the fact that I have a heart condition (which he learned from my new start occ health review where they checked my desk over to make sure everything was fine. I haven’t missed any work because of it and do a great job managing both. He said they were concerning and that he would take them heavily into account when deciding if he will keep me after probation. Hes happy with the quality of my work but he has to look at the longterm of the company. Is this legal? Can he extend or fail my probation because of my health? Especially for something that has had very little impact on my work at all? If occupational health hadn’t put it on my paperwork he wouldn’t even know I have a heart condition. So how can that be grounds for me losing my role??

      1. Ange*

        If you are in a union this is the kind of thing your union rep should be able to help with. My understanding is that they shouldn’t be able to take health issues into account especially if you qualify for protection under the Equality Act (and particularly one that hasn’t had any effect on your work/attendance) but IANAL. However I was refused one promotion due to health issues so just because they shouldn’t do it doesn’t mean they don’t.

    2. Key to the West*

      Assuming they (either your mental health or heart condition) are counted as a disability then yes, definitely illegal under the Disability Act (where you have to make all accommodations for a person – I thought it was reasonable accommodations but recently found out it’s ALL).

      Perhaps contact Citizens Advice and/or research the Disability Act and email your manager detailing the legal requirements.

      1. Tau*

        Assuming they (either your mental health or heart condition) are counted as a disability then yes, definitely illegal under the Disability Act

        As far as I know, the Equality Act also covers discrimination due to perceived disability, which may be worth looking into; there may be an argument to be made that even if the conditions don’t qualify as disabilities, the way the boss is reacting to them makes it clear that he perceives them as sufficiently severe to qualify and is discriminating based on that. This isn’t to say they wouldn’t be considered disabilities – I’ve found the definition of disability under the EA is wider than a lot of people seem to think – but covering all bases here.

        Disclaimer once again that I am in no way, shape or form a lawyer, just someone who’s done a bit of research in the past.

    3. Tau*

      IANAL but I am a disabled person working in the UK and have tried to inform myself a bit. As far as I’m aware, the law that most likely applies here is the Equality Act 2010 , and you may want to read up on it – there’s pretty nice guidance available on the government website. On the face of it it sounds pretty damn illegal to me.

  60. Xtra Anon Today*

    Glad to be able to hop on here early just as I have a question pop up.

    Background: I’m heading out on maternity leave soon, yay! I absolutely love my job and my team, but my commute is terrible and I will probably want to move on to an organization closer to my home by next summer. I’ve thought about transitioning sooner (because of some unexpected turmoil at current job), but I ultimately decided to see what life looked like after I got back.

    Situation: A recruited contacted me about EXACTLY the job I’d want at EXACTLY the organization I would target closer to my home. He sent me the job description and I sent him my resume, but I had a few questions before he passed me along to the organization, including what the timeline for hiring would be. It sounded not too urgent, so I explained my situation and that I wouldn’t be willing to move to a new employer until January. He responded that I should get back in touch with him when I’m “ready to return to work”. It felt very abrupt, but I guess I don’t know what I should’ve expected.

    Question: Should I not have been so upfront about my timeline and situation? Would it have been better to have a few conversations and then to explain the timing thing?
    I know that a company can’t not hire you because you’re pregnant, but I assume they can not hire you because you want a start date in 4 months due to a pregnancy, right?

    1. JHS*

      No I think it was good you were up front. The recruiter sounds a little bit like a jerk if he was abrupt about it. You could have gone through the process with the new job, but if you really weren’t ready to move on until January, then it was probably smart not to so you don’t have to turn it down then burn a bridge. I think there is a big bias about maternity leave and people deciding not to go back to work at all. I’m sure that’s what the recruiter was thinking about. When I came back to work after maternity leave, my (female!) boss said “Oh I was so worried you would quit! Glad you’re back!” It’s like–yeah who is going to pay my mortgage in the fantasy world where I don’t have to work? It’s an old fashioned thinking that has not gone away.

      1. Xtra Anon Today*

        This is such a big pet peeve of mine. I just wish people would believe me when I tell them that I’ve made a decision, and I AM COMING BACK.

        1. neverjaunty*

          You’d think it would dawn on them that one sure way to make sure women don’t come back after maternity leave is to loudly signal that you believe them to be unreliable and dishonest.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Or suddenly won the lottery–there are plenty of parents who can’t afford to stay at home. I remember a coworker at an old job coming back after mat leave and someone said, “I thought you’d want to stay home,” and she was like, “Not if we want to eat!”

            1. New Bee*

              Every time my husband calls his 95-year-old grandmother she asks if I’m still working and is so surprised to hear that yes, living in one of the most expensive cities in the country on what we makes means I’m not taking a day until this kid’s born.

    2. orchidsandtea*

      I’m not sure about the legal side. I am also pregnant and jobhunting, but my timeline is different. I’m hoping to start now, take maternity leave (unpaid and with risk of getting fired, since FMLA wouldn’t apply), and then go back.

      I decided to reveal it after receiving an offer, but if you’re visibly pregnant, that probably doesn’t work. It might get better outcomes if you’ve had a few conversations with them so they know you’re awesome and they’re invested in you, but proving pregnancy discrimination is hard unless they’re blatant about it.

      Also, congrats on both the pregnancy and being recruited about a great role!

      1. Xtra Anon Today*

        yeah, at 9 months, it’s pretty obvious… :)

        Congrats to you on your pregnancy! Hope the job hunt goes well!

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      I think the recruiter’s response is normal, especially if it’s an outside recruiter. It’s like Freakonomics and real estate agents: The recruiter has an interest in “flipping” the job opportunity ASAP so he can take the commission and move on to the next one.

      So, once he found out that you can’t start working for a new company right away, or close to it, he decided to move to the next name on his list. Maybe it’s not nice, but it’s not rude either IMO.

      1. Xtra Anon Today*

        That definitely makes sense. With that perspective, would it have been better for me to move forward with conversations regarding the job and address the timeline more directly with the company once he had forwarded along my information? (Just thinking what to do differently for next time)

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Hmm, maybe? The organization may be more likely to see/treat you as a human that they may be working with, rather than just a revenue generator.

    4. New Bee*

      Oh my goodness, are we the same person? O_o

      Seriously, I could’ve written this post nearly word-for-word–I was honest about the timeline, and the hiring manager didn’t have a problem with it; he said, “Let’s keep in touch because the position may still be open when you get back.” To be fair, I know him personally, but I think you did the right thing–the recruiter responded kind of rudely, but saying something later might’ve been awkward, especially if the timeline took long enough that you were home with a newborn by the time they got back to you. Good luck in this hone stretch!

  61. Wee Raspberry*

    I’m about 7 weeks pregnant (had my first doctor’s appointment this week) and not ready to tell anyone at work yet. However, I’m having a really hard time with morning sickness. I feel vaguely queasy all day long, and while I’m not throwing up, I am occasionally having difficulties with the other end of things. It’s been two weeks of this so far. (I was out a few days last week on vacation.)

    I did tell my boss that I wasn’t feeling well and worked from home one day, which is thankfully easy done for my job and he was cool with it. But I don’t know how to navigate this going forward. I really don’t feel well, but I don’t want to take sick time all of the time, and I don’t think I can work from home all of the time. (I’ve been here a little over a year and, from what I can see, it’s generally cool if you have a reason to work from home, but most people don’t seem to do it regularly.) Obviously I’ll be taking sick time for my doctor’s appointments from here on out, since that’s what the sick time is there for, but I’m not sure how to handle feeling sick on a pretty regular basis.

    Any advice appreciated.

    1. JHS*

      This is one of those ridiculous situations that we all go through. Being pregnant is so hard and especially in the first few months when you feel the worst but can’t tell anyone! I told my boss when I was 5 weeks pregnant for this very reason and because I was a high risk pregnancy, but I asked her to keep it confidential until I was ready to share more broadly. If you feel comfortable telling your boss and asking her to keep it confidential, you could do that. Otherwise, you can just treat it as if you were not feeling well and wait another month until you get through the morning sickness phase (hopefully!). Congratulations!

    2. Janelle*

      For me, pregnancy = hyperemesis. I was violently ill for all my pregnancies. With each pregnancy, it set in earlier and earlier. (By the fourth, I POS the first day of my missed period and started vomiting that afternoon. This led my husband to make an ill-advised joke about it being a psychosomatic thing. Which: no.)

      My first pregnancy was the only one that went to term, unfortunately. I was sick as a dog the entire pregnancy. I had to come out to my co-workers at 8-9 weeks. There was no way around it because I had my head in a garbage can several times a day. It just wasn’t something I could pass off. I think I spent a total of three days in the office during one month because I was so very, very sick the rest of the time.

      All this to say: if you’re sick, you’re sick. Take the time if you need it and can afford to do so. I was fortunate enough that I could take as many days as I needed, and I am aware that it may have looked like I was taking tremendous advantage of that fact.

      Congratulations on the pregnancy, and I hope your morning sickness passes soon.

      1. Wee Raspberry*

        Oh man. I’m sorry you went through that. I had a coworker who had the same thing. She was awfully sick the whole time and was out a ton. (For the record, I never thought she was taking advantage of the leave policy and I don’t think any reasonable person would think so.)

    3. Graciosa*

      Figure out what you need, and then ask for it.

      As a manager, I would not have any issue with your working from home more often. I don’t even care if you don’t tell me exactly why – you could refer to a “medical situation” that is making you nauseous and which your doctor estimates to run for another X amount of time. You could even drop the nausea part of the speech.

      I do care – because my job is to make sure my employees can be as productive as possible – if you suffer in silence because you’re afraid to say anything.

    4. Xtra Anon Today*

      First, congrats! and Second, I’m sorry you feel so crummy. I hope it does get better. I too felt fairly nauseous for most of my first trimester but never actually got sick – thank goodness!

      As for how to deal with it at work, I’m sure you’re doing some of this, but try a few of the tips for feeling less nauseous. There are some good hard candies that helped me. Also, keeping hydrated.

      I was NOT going to be ready to tell my boss until after 12 weeks and once I had a plan for some of the specifics worked out. She was going to have a Million questions, and I wanted to be able to answer at least some of them.

      If you’re not ready to tell even your boss, then do your best to minimize the impact your symptoms have on your work and do your best to survive it. Likely you’ll feel better in about 6 weeks, so just take it a week at a time. GOOD LUCK!

      1. Wee Raspberry*

        Thanks! My doctor just recommended vitamin B6 this week but of course no place carries it in the mg that she recommended, so my husband ordered it online and I’m waiting for it to come. I have some ginger pills, and I’ve been eating saltines in the morning, but I’m still feeling pretty rough.

        1. Tandar*

          If they have them in your area, try Preggie Pop Drops. They were the best thing for my nausea. Unfortunately I never found much to help with the other end other than just waiting until it got better.

    5. Wee Raspberry*

      Thanks for the advice everyone. Maybe I’ll have a think on it over the weekend about whether or not I should tell my boss. We have a good relationship, somewhat friendly, but not close, so I do feel a bit awkward telling him, especially when so few people know at this early stage.

    6. Med suggestion*

      Has your doctor talked about medication? My OB gave me a prescription for an anti-nausea med at my first appointment. I told him I hadn’t gotten morning sickness yet but I generally get nauseated easily. It’s worked nicely so far, and I do notice when I miss a dose.

      It was kind of expensive ($40 for a bottle of 100 with my insurance, I know that doesn’t mean much with all the different insurance types) but definitely worth it to not miss work.

      Link with specific drug’s wiki page to follow

        1. Wee Raspberry*

          Thanks. The only thing the doctor recommended was vitamin b6, which is making me kind of sleepy when I take it.

  62. Lolly Scramble*

    I have been reading Alison’s book and am keen to follow her advice on trying to make the job search more of a two way process, rather than approaching it as one sided (I need a job and I’ll do anything to get one). However the truth is that I need a new job and I WILL do anything to get one. Anyone have any advice on how to try to remove the neediness from your job search when it is real. I am currently saving up to quit my job in the hope I’ll be able to job search better if interviews aren’t my only hope of getting out of my current job which is rife with gaslighting, but I am worried this will just make me desperate in a different way (I need to get a job before the money runs out).

  63. chocolate lover*

    Our admin is driving me nuts. This is not new, she drives literally everyone in the office nuts. I was warned about her before even applying to the job. She does very little work anyway, is generally annoying and sometimes outright rude to our students not to mention the other staff/faculty. Some of the things she’s said are completely out of line and I don’t understand why she hasn’t been fired (this is universally agreed upon.) She has this way of being superficially nice, in a syrupy kind of way, at least, until she’s not! And she likes to act like a martyr sometimes.

    This morning s he messaged me to tell me my appt was here. Great, no problem, that’s part of her role. Except she messaged me twice in 3 minutes, because I didn’t acknowledge her fast enough. Frankly, I find it a waste of time to acknowledge it, when appt time comes, I’ll just walk out there. So I said I know, thanks, I’ll be out in a few minutes, she got huffy about how she was just trying to be helpful. But 2 messages in 3 minutes just interrupts what I’m trying to finish before my appointment.

    The other day she asked me for some information, which I hadn’t been able to give her yet, because I was waiting on some one else to give me part of the information. This was after 3 pm, and she said she’d come back in a little while. I said I wasn’t going to have it today, because I was waiting for information. She stood there with hands on her hips and said WELL I NEED IT TODAY. So I looked back at her sand WELL I’M NOT GOING TO HAVE IT TODAY. She then tried to whine to my boss about it, but he knew why I didn’t have it, and I had talked to him. He just rolls his eyes and says to ignore her.

    These aren’t her most obnoxious moments by any means (some of them are laughable, some are ridiculous, all are irritating), it’s just particularly irritating this week because we just kicked into high gear and everyone is busy and I’ve had to interact with her more than I prefer to.

    1. animaniactoo*

      Okay, I get the frustration, but you need to acknowledge the message.

      That’s how she knows you’ve gotten it and she doesn’t need to be tracking you down elsewhere so this guy isn’t sitting there in the lobby (front reception, whatever) for the next half hour.

      I’m sure she’s really annoying about lots of stuff – but you’re in the wrong on the “waste of time to acknowledge the message”. That’s disrespecting her and her job. The three minutes you’re trying to spend finishing what you need to do on your end becomes 3 minutes for her that she has to actively be paying attention and trying to figure out if you’re there, you saw the message, etc. A 2 sec message “okay, bts” will solve at least that portion of the problem and keep your side of the street clean to boot.

      1. chocolate lover*

        I can see that. Without a doubt, I’m in the BEC mode with her in general. In today’s case, I was actually finishing something with another student in front of me, and not looking at the computer when the first message came through, so I don’t think it’s always reasonable to expect a super quick answer (such as in 3 minutes.) I’m not going to disrespect the student in front of me by turning my attention to something else.

        I’m also used to an office that trusted us to do what we were supposed to, when we were supposed to – they messaged us once, and expected us to show up. I didn’t even have to think about answering the admin. I do respect the admin job, but admittedly, not her. I need to work harder at controlling my irritation with her personally.

      1. chocolate lover*

        She’s at her best when making racist comments to our students. Or making our student workers cry (she’s not allowed to supervise them anymore.)

    3. Hermione*

      Having been an admin/receptionist, I agree with animaniactoo: you need to respond when someone’s waiting in front of her to meet with you. A simple “Ok, be out in 5!” changes the guest from her responsibility to yours – she’s done her part and she knows you know to come out. 3 minutes can be a lifetime with a guest in front of you, and you’re making her look ineffective and feel helpless unnecessarily.

      I commiserate with you on the second point though – I can’t imagine loudly saying that I NEED IT TODAY in a work setting short of me becoming a neurosurgeon or literal-bomb diffuser or something.

      1. zora.dee*

        I get what folks are saying, but I’ve literally had the job of the admin, and 3 minutes is not unreasonable for her to wait. What you do is say, “great, have a seat, I’ll let Chocolate Lover know you are here and she will be out to get you.” Then you send the IM.

        I did not need to sit there anxiously waiting for a response. It was not their appointment time yet, they can wait for 5 minutes. Or even if it is there appointment time, they can still wait for 5 minutes, as the person at reception it’s not my job to manage the waiter’s emotions for them.

        Maybe in some offices an immediate response as you all laid out above is normal, but I’ve worked in offices where Chocolate Lover’s system is normal. So, I think it is on the admin to chill.

        CL: I’m sure there are 5 million other things with her, but if this one keeps coming up, you can totally say “So, when someone arrives, please ask them to have a seat, and then send me the IM that they are waiting only one time. If I am meeting with someone, it is disrespectful of their time to interrupt them to respond immediately, but I will respond in a reasonable time to come get the person for their appointment. Thank you.”

  64. J*

    I know Alison talks about “candidate time” and “employer time”, but there needs to be a third one: “higher ed time”.

    My current job notwithstanding (which moved freakishly fast for a large university… 6 weeks from resume submission to offer), higher ed just takes for-freaking-ever. I’m trying to limit myself to checking the status of my application online to once a week. I’m not really expecting a call back, I tell myself. I just want the closure of the thing.

    1. chocolate lover*

      It does. It can take months, even on a good day. Depending on the role, part of it can be affected by timing. Once the semester starts, it gets crazed, the people in charge of hiring are trying to cover for the departed employee, can’t schedule time, etc. Especially since a lot of candidate review is done by committees. It can really drraaaggggg.

    2. Little Missy*

      Yes it does take forever. In my case it was from Mother’s Day job posting to June 30 first interview, August 14 second interview, and September 23 third interview. Then they called me on October 1 and offered me the job. Fortunately for them (and I guess me too), I was getting married in two days and moving to the city the following week anyway. We agreed on a start date, I filled out the paperwork the next day and my first day was October 26. So about five months. This was in 1992 before email, Internet, social media, etc. I am still here, with some title changes and salary bumps and raises, 24 years later.

      I’m a staff member. for dean and director positions that go through national searches, the soup-to-nuts process can go up to a year.

  65. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I’m openly gay and at BEC with a right wing coworker. Some work friends complained about him on my behalf and he was told to no longer talk to me, and is careful not to, and not to say anything directly harassing, but his airing of his anti gay politics on breaks and lunch and otherwise in conversation still bugs me.

    1. orchidsandtea*

      You’re not at BEC in usual sense of overreacting because of small things building up. He’s acting like an asshole ON PURPOSE and it’s not appropriate at work, and you have appropriate boundaries in getting upset about this. I’m so sorry he’s being this way. You deserve a peaceful workplace.

      1. orchidsandtea*

        Also, the problem isn’t that his politics are socially conservative — it’s that he’s airing them in this workplace-inappropriate way, with no regard for those who feel differently and who are directly affected. I know plenty of well-mannered, kindhearted conservatives who would be horrified at this guy’s behavior. It would be reasonable for your manager or HR to tell him to not discuss politics at work. (Can we all agree to not discuss politics at work?) And it would be reasonable for your friends to tell him he’s coming across like a boor and that they’d like to change the topic now, if they’re willing to stand up for you in this way.

        I wish I could make you a cup of tea and then spill a little on his foot while it was still hot.

      2. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Yeah, when he was asked not to push his views on people, by the supervising lawyers (I work in litigation support and am a new lawyer), he said, “but SHE does that by mentioning her wife!”

        1. Kelly L.*

          Oh, F that garbage to kingdom come. If it’s not pushy for a straight guy to mention his wife, it’s not pushy for a gay woman to mention hers.

        2. Myrin*

          Aigoehgöahergöo, I hate crap like this so much. You would be pushing your views on people if you pestered all of your coworkers to get married to a same-sex partner; the existence of your wife isn’t an opinion. >:|

          1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

            Thanks! Also, I speak German well (my mom was a German teacher and taught it to me from birth), and I think it’s cool to run into Germans here! I have never heard that expression you used though…or is that first “word” just angry keys mashing on a keyboard with umlauts? :)

            1. Myrin*

              Yup, just keyboard-smashing, and since the ö is right next to the l, it inevitably ends up there whenever I do that. ;)

        6. Dang*

          OMG this is the stupidest argument ever.

          And I’m totally going to use this on every straight person in my office. Stop pushing your heterosexual views on me, mentioning your husbands all the time. (Kidding, of course)

      3. Mazzy*

        I agree, though I am always confused when “right wing” is used as synonymous with someone else, apparently, on the internets. I’m not sure what he is talking about but I’m guessing it doesn’t correlate with right wing politics since there are no real “anti gay politics” going on besides the general lack on both sides to push pro-gay initiatives.

        1. Kelly L.*

          Are you in the US? There are a lot of anti-gay policies being proposed and/or debated at the moment. They tend to come up in election years, to get certain subsets of voters to the polls to vote on other things too.

          1. Mazzy*

            That’s what I’m asking, what are those policies. I’m trying to adhere by the guidelines here and not go on a side thing, but I have not seen any anti-gay things going on here. There is the trans bathroom thing here but that is also about the POTUS bypassing Congress yet again. But that isn’t gay people anyway.

            1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

              Well, he’s also complaining about the national discrimination protections for work based on sexual orientation…you know, ENDA. It’s been stalled a while but still gets discussion. And of course he’s mad that religious people might have to provide wedding services or close.

            2. Kelly L.*

              I’m getting the sense from this comment that even if I listed the policies, you’d have an explanation for why they’re not really anti-gay and are really about something else, so I’m out. I had thought maybe you were in another country and didn’t follow US news, which would be totally understandable and make sense.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Wait, are you kidding? If you do a quick search online, you’ll see that’s very much not true. The Log Cabin Republicans have criticized the Republican party platform this year as the “most anti-LGBT … in the Party’s 162-year history.”

          In any case, this is not the place for this so please let’s move on.

    2. JHS*

      If your state laws protect you from discrimination based on sexual orientation (not all do unfortunately), you should tell HR that this individual is contributing to a hostile work environment. They need to shut this down immediately.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        They do! I’m a Minnesotan too, so we have them. But, the general Midwestern passivity and niceness makes it hard to confront bad behavior.

        1. JHS*

          Oh man and at a law firm? We are the worst at confronting the things we advise clients on. Definitely needs to be shut down and it IS contributing to a hostile work environment. I wouldn’t hesitate to press the issue on this. Unacceptable! I am so sorry you’re going through this.

        2. Natalie*

          You mentioned work friends upthread, could they back you up with HR, or even bring up their own complaints? I’m a Minnesotan too, and IME funneling your issues through a third party is a time honored way to avoid the dreaded direct conversation.

    3. Temperance*

      Yeah, this isn’t BEC. This is you working with a rude, bigoted ahole. Frankly, I would complain about him on MY behalf for spewing hate speech at work; I shouldn’t have to listen to that, and no one should, especially a person in the targeted group.

      I am side-eyeing your company for being just fine with a hatemonger spewing negativity and hate while working.

    4. Sadsack*

      He was told not to talk to you? That sounds like the wrong way to have handled it. He should have been told not to discuss politics or religion at work.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        I know, but what do I do? I haven’t been here long and this would be the second time in two weeks HR would have to deal with this for me.

        1. neverjaunty*

          No, this would be the second time in two weeks that this a-hole is violating company policy and placing the firm at legal risk. AFTER being warned.

          Don’t see this as your problem. He is the problem. The flip side of that Midwestern niceness is disapproval of people who can’t stop being asses.

          1. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

            Yeah, only spewing hate speech at lunch or on break doesn’t make it any less bad. This is a continuation of the issue they talked to him about in the first place. It’s just not finished yet.

        3. Sadsack*

          Neverjaunty is right. This is his doing, not yours. And I was incorrect to suggest he simply shouldn’t discuss politics at work. As others mentioned here, this sounds like downright hate speech.

  66. Ce*

    Back in June, I took a p/t job as receptionist/box office/admin support at a tiny family-run arts org. I also started a p/t fixed-term research job at the same time (at a much higher pay rate). Since the arts job would be ongoing, it’d offer a small but reliable income as I find my feet in the research career and build up experience for future work.

    Juggling both (along with casual work at a previous arts job) has become unsustainable, and I need to let the arts job(s) go. Quitting shouldn’t be difficult since I don’t have a contract, and I can offer to work through my hours on this month’s rota and then be done. Or, do my short shifts today, Sat and Sun and be off. I’ve never quit a job before, and have only held short-term teaching while doing my PhD. I have a few months left on the research contract, and a good chance to pick up another short project at the same place, but nothing ongoing past the winter.

    I’m looking for reassurance that drawing on savings and focusing on research work isn’t going to be a catastrophe. I can survive ~6 months on savings, and would use that time to achieve goals which are likely necessary for career advancement (plus I want to do them!). Help?

    1. Chaordic One*

      It sounds like a bit of a risk to be sure.

      Be sure to give at least two weeks notice to the arts job(s), don’t burn any bridges and leave under good terms. (Or at least as good as possible. You never know how an employer might react, but they should be professional and accept your decision.) If things take longer than expected with finding paying research work, you might be able to fall back on the arts job in the future and you could certainly be able to find something else to tide you over.

  67. Jobhunting & Maternity Leave Question*

    What sorts of things can you do to mitigate the impact of needing maternity leave? Specifically, if you’re starting a new job and will have 5-6 months before needing 3 months off.

      1. orchidsandtea*

        Yes, my question is mostly about how to negotiate for maternity leave. Alison had a post some time ago about saying something like, “And I’m planning to do X, Y, and Z to help with the maternity leave.” I’m just not sure what X, Y, and Z could be, other than documenting daily tasks and ongoing projects so coworkers/temps could pick right up.

        1. J*

          I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that if the role is currently vacant, they have some means of the work getting done while waiting for the new hire. I should think you wouldn’t need to do much more than make sure you’ve adequately prepared someone else to handle your work in the interim.

        2. JHS*

          I think it’s probably just being up front with it and making sure that they understand you’ll need the leave even unpaid. I have a co-worker who was hired at 5 months pregnant with that understanding. There wasn’t anything for her to do per se, but she was only able to negotiate 6 weeks as opposed to the 6 months they normally give at my office (not paid)

  68. Almost Architect*

    Has anyone “announced” a professional certification?
    I’m in the home stretch of becoming a licensed architect (just 1 exam to pass and 150 hours to go!) I’m planning to throw myself a HUGE party to celebrate – but that would just be inviting a bunch of friends to a bar for the afternoon.
    I want to let some former bosses/mentors (some who I haven’t spoken to in a year or more) know I finished and thank them for support, but is that weird?

    1. EddieSherbert*

      Congrats! That’s awesome.

      I thin it’s fine to send them a nice and personalized email, Linkedin message, or note… As long as it’s a sincere “I really appreciate you and you made a difference in my professional life” and not something like “Hey! I made it. You helped. Now I’m job-hunting. Spread the word!”

      (I don’t think you meant the second option, but just in case!)

    2. AndersonDarling*

      At my office, we bring in our certificates/diplomas and display them at our desk for a while. Anyone interested will spark a conversation and ask about it.

    3. TeaCupDesigner*

      Congrats man, that is a big step! :D
      If you have a LinkedIn you can announce it via there, and maybe send an email of thanks (could double up as a networking hint too)

    4. Pwyll*

      Not at all weird to send a few personalized messages to people to thank them for their support in the past, though I recommend not doing a blast e-mail and instead doing individualized messages to a few people. Then post it on LinkedIn, which will notify many of your other connections anyway.

    5. Lily Rowan*

      I feel like thanking someone is always nice — I’m always glad to hear from former employees who are doing well, and have no need to be in touch in between.

  69. Just Another Techie*

    I’m doing some business travel. The total cost of airfare, hotel, rental car, and meals is estimated around $800. My organization is very budget sensitive right now. Most people in my office take an airport shuttle to the airport, because they live in suburbia 50-80 miles from the airport, and these shuttles typically run $20-40 each way. I live close enough to take a cab (for $25 or so each way) but I also live on the subway and can just take a train to the airport (for $2.25 each way). But my flight is also at an ungodly hour of the morning, and the subway will take half an hour longer than the cab ride. I’m already taking a less desirable flight (much earlier departure from home, after midnight return, hour long layover in a crappy airport with few amenities instead of a direct flight) to save money on air fare. How much do I owe my organization to also skimp on transit to/from the airport?

      2. J*

        Just to further explain… the additional $50 that your employer will be out on your cab fare is *nothing* compared to their annual budget. Taking public transit isn’t bad if you don’t mind it, but don’t feel bad at all about spending the money on a cab on this occasion.

    2. The IT Manager*

      I agree that taking the cab is completely appropriate especially with the other undesirably aspects of the trip.

      I would suggest you ask yourself “what would you do if you were paying for it yourself?” However it sounds like the answer is that you’d never book a flight at that ungodly hour because of many reasons including extra long commute by mass transit that would result in moderately costly cab fare (compared to the subway).

      1. Just Another Techie*

        If I were paying for it myself I’d have shelled out the extra $200 for a direct flight at an hour when taking the subway is faster than sitting in a car in traffic, and then taken the subway :)

    3. STX*

      If the cab is comparable to a shuttle, and your approval authorities are used to seeing the shuttle pricing, I would take the cab. As long as the bottom-line transportation number looks what they expect it to be, they likely will not care. I have taken public transportation to the airport before and the hassle of hauling my luggage + the risk of delays is not worth it for work travel. Imagine how much it will cost your boss if there is a problem on the subway and you miss your flight.

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      Take the cab, unless you think a bean counter might be petty enough to refuse reimbursement. If that’s the case, talk to your boss first and make the case that you’re already bending over backwards to lower the cost of this trip, get whatever formal approval you need, and THEN take the cab. ;)

      (I once worked for a nonprofit that denied me reimbursement for a $5 Mickey D’s breakfast at the airport, even though I had had to get up at an ungodly hour for a 6 AM flight, because their policy was to start reimbursing for meals only once you arrived in the destination city. Not cool.)

  70. Nervous Accountant*

    Two minor annoyances:

    someone told me that CC (creepy coworker) is back to whining and complaining about me. I told him not to tell me any details because I’ll get pissed off and it won’t help me.

    a former friend/cw who’s no longer here, still complains about how horrible this place was. I know, not to take it personally but I helped her get this job, she did well, and everyone here loved her. Since she’s left, we barely ever talk now, so I feel like I lost a friend after doing what I thought was a good thing. I’m (mostly) over it but it slightly stings.

  71. Evie*

    Hi all! Alison recommend I ask here to get some feedback, so I’m hoping you guys can help me out!

    At my current job, employees have one bank of PTO that doesn’t differentiate between sick and vacation time, which overall I really like. My husband and I are planning to start trying for a baby in the next six months, and I plan to use my allocated FMLA to stay home after the baby is born for 12 weeks. I also have the option to supplement that with some PTO, which I would like to do, especially since I’ll have a fair number of hours built up by then. However, since this is my first time working somewhere that bundles sick time and vacation time into one undifferentiated chunk of PTO, I’m not quite sure how to mentally divvy it up. I’m happy to dedicate some of the “vacation” time to staying home for an extra few weeks, but I don’t want to do so to a degree that would deplete my “sick” time too much either, especially with a new baby in the house. Does anyone have a good sense for what might be a good balance to strike between the two? Split it down the middle and just mentally categorize half of it as “vacation” time and use that up as wanted/needed, and leave the “sick” half untouched? 60-40? Or something else?

    Thanks!

    1. JHS*

      I literally used all of my sick/vacation time to supplement my maternity leave, however, I have flexibility to work from home when I need to. It sounds like your workplace isn’t flexible with time outside of PTO, so I would say leave at least 10 days set aside for sick time post-baby because once your baby goes to daycare, they will get sick and you may get sick from their germs too!

      1. Evie*

        Thank you! I’m really banking on mooching off other parents experience here since I know it’s probably not a perfect science, but I’d still like to maximize my time home without shooting myself in the foot later on, so I appreciate the feedback!

        (And sadly, no work from home option; both policy as well as the nature of my work make that a no-go unfortunately).

        1. JHS*

          Good luck! It is really hard to plan, but my baby was sick a LOT the first month. She literally got sick in the first week then it seemed like every other week for a month she would get kicked out with a fever or vomiting or diarrhea. No fun at all and one time my husband and I both got the stomach flu when she did! After a month or so, it REALLY calmed down though and she hasn’t had to miss daycare since (CROSSING MY FINGERS).

          1. Evie*

            Crossing my fingers for her as well! Sick kids are no fun at all, are they? My poor nephew couldn’t catch a break last winter (one cold after flu after pukefest after another) and I know it really drained him and my sister.

        2. J*

          Every pregnancy is different, so don’t stress yourself out about this, either. You could need the time during the pregnancy.

          And don’t forget to keep your spouse/partner’s time off allotment in mind. The other parent can stay home with an infant just as well as you can. (If somewhat balanced parenting is important to you, start those conversations early. My husband and I alternate on who takes care of the child when she’s out from school and/or sick, and we set that expectation very early on.)

          1. Evie*

            Oh yeah, I definitely plan on allotting some for the actual pregnancy! I tend not to use sick time very often (especially since I have a weekday afternoon off each week where I stack any appointments), so I figure during the pregnancy I’ll bump up to like, normal-person levels of sick time, haha.

            And definitely! The nature of my husband’s job makes it a lot harder for him to call out spontaneously than it is for me, which they compensate for by being very flexible with scheduled in advance PTO since they recognize it can be a burden, so my mental figuring is that most of the time he’ll probably wind up as the take-the-baby-to-planned-appointments person and I’ll be the oh-shit-the-baby-is-puking-at-quarter-to-nine-someone-has-to-stay-home person, haha.

      2. Sally-O*

        I only left myself with 2 days of sick time and 1 day of vacation upon returning to work, BUT we are allowed to borrow against future time. I’m lucky and my LO hasn’t gotten sick at all in her first 7 months (and she’s been in daycare since 3 months old) so I’ve built back up a few sick days.

        1. Evie*

          Oh, I hadn’t thought of the idea of being able to borrow against the future — I’ll definitely check on that! Thanks!

    2. animaniactoo*

      Prioritize the number of sick days that you can reasonably expect for you. Add another 3 or 4 for days when the baby might be sick.

      Everything you have left over is your vacation/personal day time.

    3. Xtra Anon Today*

      My employer also groups sick + vacation = PTO and I’m about to take my maternity leave. Here’s what works for me:

      I don’t like to have fewer than 3 days PTO as my buffer for unexpected emergencies, including illness or a family emergency – but I’m generally healthy as is my extended family. When kid comes, I might bump that up to 5, but my husband has access to much more sick leave, so I may not need to.

      That being said, I’m draining pretty much ALL of my PTO to take my maternity leave partially paid and have a week off for Christmas. Our plan after I go back to work is to just rely on my husband’s sick leave until I’ve built up that buffer again.

    4. CMT*

      I thought it was pretty common for employers not to allow FMLA leave until you’ve used all your PTO. At least I’m pretty sure that’s the case where I work. Plus, FMLA isn’t paid, so I personally would rather be getting money while I wasn’t working.

      1. Xtra Anon Today*

        Based on my understanding, FMLA leave is just the ability to leave your job for family/medical reasons and have your job protected. For maternity leave, that’s for up to 12 weeks. During this time the employer is not required to pay you, but can if they choose to.

        I haven’t heard of any companies who require you to use up all of your PTO before going unpaid for maternity leave, but it might be something more common than I realize.

      2. Wee Raspberry*

        That’s definitely not the case where I work. You can use PTO if you want, but you’re still entitled to your FMLA separately.

      3. Just Another Techie*

        FMLA is unpaid. What’s pretty common is to require using all PTO before dipping into paid mat leave or paid temporary disability leave.

    5. Wee Raspberry*

      Bear in mind you’ll need some sick time pre-birth as well. Lots of doctor’s appointments, and also possible morning sickness (me right now…boo)

    6. Canton*

      How much PTO do you have? I wouldn’t concern myself with trying create a perceived difference if your company doesn’t. 12 weeks is a long time and you’ll most likely use it all before your time off is over unless your company provides STD or you can supplement it in a different way.

      FMLA is job protection and your company isn’t required to pay you for that time off, unless it is in their policy to do so, in which case, never mind,

  72. 42*

    Happy Friday everyone. I work in an office where we frequently have dial-in meetings, almost as frequently as we have meetings in one of our conference rooms. I’m encountering a problem that I don’t know how to address, nor whether it can really be addressed at all.

    Fairly frequently (like at least once per week), I dial in to a meeting led by “Danny”. Also many times, “Wendy” dials in to the same meeting that Danny leads.

    Danny has one of the most extreme cases of vocal fry that I’ve ever heard in my life, and I’m not exaggerating. It’s not that the end/last several words of his sentences trail off…his entire sentences, paragraphs, meetings are all done in that REDRUM voice. (Like that line in The Shining: “Danny isn’t here Mrs Torrence.” The WHOLE meeting).

    Compounding that is that Wendy also has a bad vocal fry, but hers is somewhat more tolerable than Danny’s, in that only the latter half or third of her sentence goes south rather than the whole thing.

    When I have earbuds in or my headset on listening to Danny leading the meeting (and by default speaking very frequently) please believe me when I say it’s intolerable and makes it difficult to focus with that croak aimed directly into my ear. I find myself focusing on Danny’s and Wendy’s voices rather than what they’re saying.

    I know that it’s not a physical ailment causing this, because once in a glorious blue moon the fry drops for a word or two, and Danny’s actual-and-quite-lovely REAL voice shines through. Wendy rarely goes an entire sentence without frying the end of it, but the start of her sentences are in a normal speaking voice.

    I’m really not in a position to talk to them directly about it. They’re both relatively new to my company, I don’t know them well at all, and it simply isn’t my place bring it up.

    Does anyone have any suggestions or tricks on how to deal as a listener? I wonder if I’m the only one who has real problems focusing on the meeting details and not on the sandpaper on the other end of the phone. If anyone has any ideas, I need to hear them. Thank you!

    1. Kelly L.*

      Is there something you can do technologically to make their voices less annoying on your earbuds? I don’t know what it would be, but I remember that my ex made me hate one of my favorite albums for a while by experimenting with playing it with the treble maxed out. It made me feel like I was being hit with tiny hammers the whole time. I wonder if you can mess with treble/bass or something and make them sound less sandpapery.

      1. 42*

        Hmmm like the EQ setting if I’m on my cell. I use my headset when I’m using my desk phone, but if I go on his calls with my iPhone, I can see if I can tweak the sound. That’s a fantastic idea and one that I’d have never thought of, thank you!

    2. self employed*

      Ugh that sounds horrible. I have had to stop listening to certain podcasts bc of it. I think you have GOT to stop paying attention to it (easier said than done). Maybe double-down on note taking or do something during the call that takes a bit of focus? It only gets worse the more you think about it.

      1. 42*

        I believe that about the podcasts, I’ve done that too (changed the station) for certain NPR shows over the weekends. I’m realizing how very sensitive I am to it.

        It does get worse the more I think of it, but we all know what happens when someone says “Don’t think of an elephant!” During today’s meeting I was using my 1-ear headset, so I slid the ear part behind my ear so it was a bit more offset, but it makes it hard to hear someone addressing me specifically on the call.

    3. Sally-O*

      That sucks. Perhaps you can speak to your team more generally about everyone using a good “phone voice” or “presenter voice.” Evenly pitched, not trailing off.

      1. 42*

        I wish I could, but I don’t see that being feasible or my place to say. It’s really not. However it’s definitely a fantasy of mine. :-D

        1. zora.dee*

          Could you phrase it as a request from a participant? Address Danny directly: “Hey, I have trouble hearing you on the calls sometimes, the ends of your sentences drop off, and I think over the phone it just gets lost. Could you try speaking a little more clearly and enunciating more? It would really help me follow the conversation. Thank you!!!” Big Smiles!

          1. 42*

            That I could totally do. Good one. And if he starts to fry out again, “Whoops, you’re dropping off again Danny, can you speak up on that last part?” Maybe he’ll start to think about his voice. It’s sad, because the fleeting times that I catch it, he’s got an extremely pleasant voice.

    4. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      I vote for changing the settings on your devices like mentioned earlier, if you can. There was an interesting discussion on vocal fry on this American Life (link in the reply to this). The podcast wasn’t about that particularly, but there’s some discussion about how common it is, etc.

      As a perpetually fast speaker (with probably a little vocal fry), I’ll tell you that I’ve been working on it for years with limited success–you can try the “speak up” thing, but he’ll likely revert to his normal voice. Then you’ll run into the “how many times do you keep saying it” problem.

        1. 42*

          I (avid TAL listener) did hear that when it was run and I was fully simpatico. It’s an awful trend and I’m really really tuned into it. So I thank you for recognizing that you yourself might lapse into it, and for at least trying to stay ahead of it.

  73. Mimmy*

    I have a bit of a dilemma – it’s not exactly about work, but it is an issue that could impact my professional relationships.

    I’ve mentioned this person before – I’ll call him Wakeen. I cannot drive due to my vision, and Wakeen has been kind enough to offer me a lift to a meeting that we attend on an almost monthly basis. I’m an official voting member of this group, he attends as a member of the public. The plus side is that it saves me time and money on train and taxi fares, and he likes to make me laugh.

    The hitch is that he tends to also say negative, sometimes unkind, things about others in our field. My mentor, Lucinda, also attends these meetings, and we talked after the meeting briefly. She warned me to be careful in my conversations with him because she said he tends to “bate” people into saying these negative things. In the past, he has gotten into trouble because he’s made these comments in online environments (blogs I think). Just this week, he called me to warn me about a job where Lucinda worlds – and this is not a large agency. Thankfully I was in the middle of something else, so I was able to cut short the call.

    I need to figure out how the balance this – I don’t want to just stop accepting the rides to our meetings (though I’ll concede his motives for attending may be less than genuine) because it is a kind gesture and he seems to genuinely want to see me succeed in our field. Yet, I don’t want to inadvertently get into a situation where my reputation is harmed because of things he and I talk about.

    What say you AAM’ers!

    1. EddieSherbert*

      If he’s a pretty reasonable person, I think you could say something along the lines of “Hey Wakeen, I’m working on having a positive attitude and this conversation isn’t helping. Can we talk about X instead?” followed by a couple “This is getting a bit negative for me, can we get back to X?” until he gets the hint.

      Otherwise, if that’s likely to ruin things with Wakeen, stick with boring/vague/neutral statements:
      “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
      “I haven’t noticed that.” and “That’s not been my impression.”
      “Hmm. I don’t know.”

      Maybe even followed by… a subject change!

      Good luck!

    2. C Average*

      At my old job, I had a stated policy against negative gossip. I flat-out told people, “I don’t want to hear negative things about people I work with unless they report to me and the problem is work-related and it’s part of my work responsibility to address it. If you want to say nice things to me about my colleagues, I’ll listen all day long, though.”

      It felt a little goody-two-shoes to say it straight out like that, but it got me what I wanted: a gossip-free environment. And when you state it plainly like that, it’s pretty hard for even the biggest gossip to come up with a valid objection. Basically, you’re putting in thirty seconds of awkwardness in exchange for subsequent transparency and lack of awkwardness. I found that a good trade.

      (I’ve employed a similar strategy in personal relationships, with similar results.)

    3. Murphy*

      If you don’t want to ask him directly to stop (which I think would be acceptable), be very careful what you say to him. Deflect and change the subject as much as possible.

      1. Kai*

        Agreeing with this, and also–respond blandly to anything “baiting” that he says to you. Don’t show any interest in what he’s saying and don’t indicate whether you agree or anything. Hopefully he’ll get bored of sharing these thoughts with you.

  74. Anon for this*

    So, I work for a super small nonprofit. (3 year-round contractors, including me, goes up to, like, 15 during the summer.) I got this job because my friend (who was the only year-round contractor when I started) came to me when the last person in my position was failing to do work and then quit, and asked me if I would be willing to fill in and help them hire another person.

    Well, everyone we’ve attempted to hire since then has failed horribly, either because they’re not very good at being given a list of tasks and then just going and doing them (or asking relevant questions and then going and doing them), or they can’t deal with my friend/boss (who is a cantankerous and overly-obsessed-with-details person by nature), or they don’t have the relevant background and can’t connect to our target population. I am good at these things, and I know not to take the cantankerous aspects of my friend’s nature personally because they are a friend of long standing, and I am good at this job, and I enjoy this job, but sometimes I get overwhelmed by having a friend who is also my boss and feel like I have to break up with them as a friend if I want to keep doing this job, or I have to find someone who will function the way I do in this position if I want to keep this person as my friend, but right now, neither of those positions are practical.

    I am terrible at keeping a work/friendship separation with my friend. I try to be just a coworker, I fail utterly and wind up on a tangent about friend things. We’ve tried hiring other people and phasing me out, but this is my friend and I want to help them and if there is work to do I enjoy doing it and want to do it because it is interesting and also helps my friend.

    Has anyone been in a situation like this? How did you negotiate that weird line between being a coworker/boss and a friend without going bonkers?

    1. ASJ*

      I don’t think you can be friends with your boss. It’s just an awkward situation all around. Ultimately, they like the way that you do the job. As long as you’re willing to do it, they have no real push to full the position permanently because they know you’ll bail them out.

  75. Fourth Month*

    I’m still job-hunting. My last day at the job from which I’m being downsized is 9/15. It’s still hard to refrain from panic or despair. Words of reassurance would be very welcome.

    I have two in-person interviews and one phone screen scheduled during the next week and a half. I hope this is a good sign, and that it means my efforts at sprucing up my LinkedIn, writing better cover letters, and focusing my search on roles where my experience transfers well, have all been worthwhile work on my part. I’m going to do more job applications this afternoon, in an effort to get more interviews as soon as possible and give myself more options.

    I have a past history of making rash decisions during periods of unemployment. At two different points, I’ve spent so long unemployed that I took work in the food-service industry, out of a sense of desperation, and found it a poor fit. (No bias against waitstaff/baristas–I just mean I’m not suited to it at all.)

    I don’t want to make a rash decision like that this time and go into a job where I have no future, just for the sake of having a job, but I also don’t want to be unemployed for a long time. I have a panic song playing in my head, singing, “You’ll starve and DIE!!!!!”

    Hopefully, I’ll be able to draw unemployment, and that should keep me from having to make a life-or-death job choice. However, I’m glumly frightened that there will be some stupid reason that I don’t qualify for unemployment, and I’ll be up the creek without a paddle. I’m going to call and check on this on Monday, even though it looks like I can’t actually file for unemployment till I’m officially unemployed. (I’m in Massachusetts, if anyone has words of advice on dealing with unemployment in this state.)

    1. Not Phoebe*

      It sounds like you are doing all the right things, between those interviews and applications! Hang in there!

    2. Dang*

      So sorry you’re in this situation… but it sounds like you are doing everything you can. Sending good job vibes your way!

    3. Drew*

      Thirding the above. Sounds like you’re taking all the right steps. Remember to breathe; all else is secondary.

  76. EddieSherbert*

    Anyone ever use/subscribe to Lynda.com? Was it worthwhile?

    My background: I’m in marketing/communications. I handle graphic design requests from my team; make promotional, sales and training images/videos; and run social media/blog. I have an Adobe account mostly for Premiere, Illustrator, InDesign, and some Photoshop.

    1. C Average*

      We had a shared subscription at my old job. Lynda.com saved my hide when I had to learn basic html over the course of a weekend. The classes were dull (in my opinion), but I did learn the material. Shortly after, I discovered (and much preferred) Codecademy, which is free.

      There are a ton of free online classes and resources. I’d exhaust the free ones before subscribing to Lynda.com.

      1. Audiophile*

        +1 Codecademy. I’ve used that a few times, but not nearly enough to strengthen what little HTML knowledge I possess or to keep up my beginning level knowledge of higher level programming languages..

      2. Kaitlyn*

        +1 for Codecademy, also. I’ve found that’s it has really helped me along with the little bits of programming languages I learned in school.

    2. it happens*

      See if your public library has an account that you can test drive before subscribing. (My library does, but I’ve never taken advantage of it…)

        1. Dodobird*

          Hey, I’m a librarian and want to reinforce that you should check with your local library. My library system has a subscription to Lynda.com and all you need is a current library card.

    3. Sybil Fawlty*

      I have really learned a lot from Lynda.com. I have my own small business and am old-ish (43) so tech has changed a lot since I was in college etc. It’s been really enjoyable also.

  77. Cafe au Lait*

    I’m on a committee that pulls together several different departments within my organization. In the past the committee has done fabulous programs, and has gained a ton of support from the administration.

    In our last meeting, one of my peers was incredibly upset. She, her boss, and her department director have conflicting perspectives on what her role encompasses. To me, it sounds like she’s trying to take her role in a direction not envisioned by her boss or director. I don’t think her direction is bad, per ce, but perhaps not what is needed/above her paygrade. I don’t work in that department, so I’m only hearing this through her and what I can read between the lines.

    Here’s my problem: a really great programming idea came out of that meeting. I think we’d be remiss if we didn’t explore the topic in more depth. However, this topic bolsters my peer’s argument about her job. I get the impression that she’d like to use this meeting as a cudgel to tell her boss and director that they’re wrong; our unit supports her view.

    I know that this might happen about any of events. I can’t control how my peers use my committee’s programming. I’m just really hesitant to sign off on an event topic when I suspect the motives are less anout creating a dialog and more about proving the validity of an argument. It’s my first time chairing a committee. I’m relatively unknown in my workplace and I don’t want to gain a reputation as using these programming events to pick a fight with administrators.

    1. Graciosa*

      In this situation, I would probably postpone. You don’t want to give up a great idea that will benefit the organization, but you also don’t want to be pulled into a political battle like this one before you have established yourself.

      I don’t know what the timing looks like, but I would pick other ideas for the immediate future while making it clear that the great (and controversial one) would be scheduled for Future Date (maybe the latter half of next year?).

      Good luck.

    2. catsAreCool*

      Can you talk to her boss about the idea? If this becomes something the boss supports, it woudl be easier to put it in as an event topic.

  78. C Average*

    Apologies in advance; this may be a bit rambly.

    I had a really interesting experience this past week. I got the chance to take a copyediting and proofreading test for a publishing house–something I always figured I’d do really well at. (I figured this based mainly on other people’s assessment of my abilities, although I’ve always had a certain amount of innate confidence about spotting misspelled words and incorrect punctuation and that sort of thing.) I wouldn’t say it’s been my life’s dream to do this kind of work, but it’s always been a baseline assumption of mine that, given the chance, I’d be well suited for it.

    It turns out, I’m really only meh at it. I did okay on the test, not great.

    For my line of work, it’s roughly the equivalent of getting to audition for one of those TV talent shows and getting told, “Yeah, you should probably keep singing in your church choir, but hang onto your day job, because you will not be getting a record deal.”

    I shared some of this with my family and close friends in part because I want them to stop sending me job links to writing and editing jobs, or trying to talk me into attending writing workshops. I’m not some kind of great talent. I’m a person you can call if you want someone to check your cover letter for typos. And they are being really weird about it, telling me, “Don’t let one person’s opinion dash your dreams! You’re really talented.” I want them to stop. No one is dashing my dreams. I got an honest assessment of my abilities, along with some really helpful feedback.

    I really love my new job. It’s an hourly retail job, but it’s related to something I really love, and it’s at a business I’ve patronized for many years. (I’m working at a specialty fabric retailer. I’ve sewn for most of my life and do it fairly well.) I am slowly–very slowly!–working to revise the first draft of my novel. I have no expectations that it will be the great American novel; I’m not even sure it’s worth finishing. (I can’t believe I wrote that. I’ve never admitted that even to myself.) What I’m doing right now is fine. I like it. I don’t really care if it’s a waste of my so-called talents.

    I still have no earthly idea what I’m going to do when I grow up.

    1. Manders*

      I also wanted to be an editor until I realized I’m not so into proofreading! It turns out that I like books and I like writing, but proofreading is not actually as dreamy a career as it’s made out to be.

      Writing and editing are actually two very different skillsets, and proofreading is only one of many types of editing. Strong writers tend to be able to pick certain errors documents because they understand grammar and punctuation, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll pass professional proofreading tests.

      It sounds like your friends and family are a bit confused if they’re trying to talk you into writing workshops to improve your editorial skills. What skills do *you* want to develop?

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I just want to second this… I started out as a editor as an “in” for the communications field (it wasn’t).

        While editing/proofreading and writing have some overlap, they are different skills. This was glaringly obvious because they often tried to have one of the senior writers fill in for me and she hated doing it. It’s different enough that the roles aren’t interchangeable.

        1. chickabiddy*

          Yes. I am an editor/proofreader, and generally considered good at my job. Sometimes I’m asked to pitch in and write something, usually by someone who does not understand the difference between a proofreader and a writer. I can produce a document of the appropriate length that is error-free, but it is definitely not inviting or even particularly interesting. That is not my skill set.

      2. C Average*

        I think that’s part of the problem! My friends and family have a very vague idea of what writers and editors do, so they carpet-bomb me with advice that really doesn’t apply. I want them to Just. Shut. Up. And it’s kind of nice to be able to say to them, “Here’s some persuasive evidence that I am not the lost Brontë sister. Now leave me alone.”

        Part of the problem is that my mother is a successful freelance writer and therefore thinks she’s a great judge of writing and editorial talent, and she’s incapable of keeping her opinions to herself. We have a wide shared circle of friends and relatives, and within our circle it’s sort of been received wisdom that I’m the most talented writer in the family. I’ve done some writing professionally and have held writing-intensive jobs. It’s just the box I get sorted into, by myself and by others.

        What do *I* want to do? I have no earthly idea. I’ve tended to find the things I like and the things I do well by just trying new things often. Sometimes I luck onto something I love so much I’m willing to put in the effort to get good at it. Sometimes I find that I’m okay at something but don’t like it enough to try to get better at it. Sometimes I find something I don’t really dig, but I can do it well with very little effort, so it’s a useful skill to have in my bag of tricks.

        I found the tests really interesting, in part because I just plain like tests. (I know. I’m the weirdo who did really well on the SAT the first time and took it again just because I’d found it an interesting challenge.) I like getting a quantifiable, independent, non-squishy, non-biased assessment of what I can do. I think, if I applied myself, I could be a pretty solid proofreader, and I think I might even enjoy it.

        I am not sure that even a lot of work will make me a good creative writer. Per all the expert advice, I try to focus on a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset, but I do think that innate talent has to be factored in. If I’m a B student with the potential to get As, I’ll put in the effort. If I’m a C student with the potential to get Bs if I really work at it, I’d rather just be happy and sew quilts and let other people worry about writing and/or editing the great American novel.

        1. Mimmy*

          I think that’s common with a lot of professions – most people only have a general idea of what they entail, and writing and editing is no exception.

      3. Charlotte Collins*

        Editing and proofreading are not necessarily the same thing. (When Obama guest-edits Wired, he’s not going to be the one checking for typos.) Copyediting is related to but separate from proofreading. These are all distinct skills that have to do with language and writing.

        The good news is that you can learn to do them, but to do them really well requires a certain skillset/temperament. However, you shouldn’t expect to just *know* everything there is to know. Look at how thick the hardcopy of The Chicago Manual of Style is. Then realize that there’s also AP style and MLA style.

        Based on personal experience, it helps to be raised by a mother who has worked in both copyediting and book editing. (Anne Fadiman has a really amusing essay about her family’s tendency to proof everything. It hit very close to home for me…)

      4. Mimmy*

        proofreading is only one of many types of editing

        What *are* the different types of editing? I had a colleague tell me I’d make a “wonderful” editor because of my attention to detail (we worked on a grant proposal review committee together for a few years).

            1. Jessica Snell*

              You’re welcome! Googling the specific jobs from there (i.e., “proofreading” or “developmental editing”) should give you definitions and details, but I figured that list would get you started.

              I mean, I know everything’s searchable these days, but so often it’s knowing *what* to search that’s the hard part.

    2. Lily Evans*

      I mean, like all skills writing and editing are things that you can improve with practice over time. Sure some people have more innate talent than others, but one bad skills test shouldn’t stop you if it’s what you really want to do. But is it what you want to do? Because you said it’s not your life’s dream, and it kind of sounds like your friends and family pigeonholed you into it. Even if this used to be your dream, dreams are allowed to change. I’m sure they only want what’s best for you, but only you get to decide what that is.

    3. the.kat*

      All my life, my family and friends have told me that I was a super special snowflake who could write novels in a single sitting, edit them to perfection and be the next JK Rowling. When I let that dream die, I found that I was writing because I enjoyed it, not because I needed to get published.

      I don’t want to screen print my feelings on you, but are you maybe a little burned out and needing a new dream? Tell your family you’re working on your craft and that your job gives you the time you need to be creative while paying the bills and making you happy. What they’re offering isn’t what you’re looking for right now. If that doesn’t dissuade them, let them know you’ll be screening their emails and set up a filter. Anything that mentions “job” or “application” goes into a junk folder.

    4. Isben Takes Tea*

      As someone who went through what you’ve been through and now has a job giving those tests to people, I want to really encourage the mindset of “I have an aptitude, I just need to develop it.” Proofreading and copyediting are skills, and like any skill, they take a lot of practice and some study. I took a test and was turned down, but took some classes, practiced, and started getting freelance jobs, and then a full-time job.

      Also, there is a large swathe of “editing” professions, and most book editors have difficulties with commas themselves–they are substantive or developmental editors, and focus on theme, structure, organization, etc.

      It sounds like you’re comfortable with where you’re at, which is great! My two cents is to practice and study whatever you enjoy doing so you can get even better at it.

    5. SophieChotek*

      How did you get the chance to take the proofreading/editing test? that in itself sounds interesting.

      I agree though; editing and writing are two different things. i do a tiny bit of both in my current job.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      UGH UGH UGH.

      I’ve been dealing with this and it sucks–and no one in my family knows jack diddly about publishing (I don’t know that much either, but I know more than they do because I’ve done my homework). They think I can just write a book and put it out there and as my dad said once, “write her own ticket.” UM NO. It doesn’t work that way. If it did, I’d be on the NYT list right now! Their confidence is touching, but also annoying, because they have no concept of how hard it is or how the industry works or how long it takes, especially with books. And if I try to set them straight, I’m being “negative.” No, I’m being realistic. I finally just stopped talking to them about it because they do. not. get. it.

      I’m in a similar place with Secret Book–the story is good and it contains some really first-rate stuff, but I wrote it with my head firmly up my arse and OMG WHAT was I thinking with what I did! The revision is going to take AGES. So I’m moving on to the next one and I’ll dip in and out of it. I know what I want to be, but right now I’m in omg-what-if-I-lose-this-job mode. I need to let that kick me in the behindquarters and get busy on my next book rather than drifting into a state of dread and torpor.

      If you’re doing something you like right now, keep doing it. Your novel isn’t going anywhere. It will wait. And maybe it isn’t worth finishing. Maybe it is. Maybe right now your brain needs this break. Writing is flipping hard work. But in response to my email about writing a huge ridiculous fanfiction, a grad school instructor of mine did tell me that no time spent writing is wasted. You learn things even if the product isn’t the best thing anybody (or you) ever wrote. And sometimes those things relate to your life, not your book. :)

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Heh. I’m glad he thinks that–though he rarely reads any fiction, he did read the fanfic and told my sister, “She writes as good as Ann Rule!” Ann Rule is one of his favorite authors (and mine), so that made me feel good. :)
          I was hesitant to let him read it at first–I said, “Well dad it does have some sex in it,” and he goes, “I think I can handle that.” *cringe* LOL

        2. Honeybee*

          Both of your dads sound like my dad, but about pretty much every career field. He used to give my mother (a nurse) tips about nursing and working in a hospital (he is not a nurse). And he used to give me the weirdest career advice.

      2. Drew*

        Some writers I know talk about their “trunk books”: the ones they wrote when they were still learning how to write and how to write in their own style — different concepts — and that will stay buried at the bottom of the trunk until they die, unseen by everyone. It sounds like you have a great trunk novel and now you’re starting on your REAL first book.

        Good luck!

        1. C Average*

          Actually, what’s funny is that I’ve been hauling an unwritten novel around in my head for DECADES, and then I decided to do a different project just for fun and actually managed to finish a first draft of THAT project. And I think the just-for-fun book is a better book than the in-my-head book. The revision is such a drag, though! I keep starting and restarting, and everything I write, I wind up hating when I reread it a few days later. It needs to be put in a trunk with several large rocks and flung into the ocean.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          Ha, this is my fifth book and the one before it is the one that has pages out. :)

          It’s not unsalvageable, but I think I bit off more than I could chew with it anyway even without the stupid thing I did (which might have worked if the main characters were aliens :P). Maybe I’ll fix it later–I do like the rest of it.

      3. C Average*

        Can I just say I wish you lived near me? I feel like in some parallel universe we hang out together in coffee shops and write and talk about books and it’s awesome.

        Families, man. As you say, their confidence is touching.

        And, well, even if my novel never gets anywhere, thanks to my research I’ve read most of the major books about the financial crisis, and I’ve learned to swear in Ukrainian.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Ha, I wish that too–it would be fun!

          And yes, research is great. I know way more than I want to know about armed bank robbery. Plus I’m sure I got on a dozen internet watch lists looking up Joker-like activities.

    7. MissGirl*

      I worked in publishing for ten years and have a few nonfiction books out. I’ve written two novels: one for practice and one I hope to be published once I’m done editing it (a lot). Writing and editing are different vocations, although being a good writer entails having a good editing eye. If you have any questions about the publishing world or what it entails, I’d be happy to answer for you. There’s lots of jobs in it that aren’t proofreading. I started out as an assistant editor and never took a test. I eventually ended up in production and design because I liked the creativity of it and didn’t fancy proofreading.

      I’m also figuring out my next steps. I’m getting my MBA to go into, of all things, business analytics. I couldn’t have foresaw that one two years ago.

  79. self employed*

    Anyone set up a successful blog/social media presence? I’m a writer starting a new side project, but the idea of starting at literally zero sounds really tough. How do you break through?

    1. Manders*

      I had some small success with my blog, but really dropped the ball because I stopped posting content regularly. So if you want a steadily growing audience, definitely think about what kind of posting schedule you could stick with long-term and how far out you can schedule posts.

      For social media:
      1) Share things on your own Facebook page
      2) Set up a Facebook page for your project and decide if you’re going to invite some or all of your friends to like it. Read up on Facebook click farming and check Facebook Blueprint to familiarize yourself with what the different types of Facebook ads do before shelling out any money.
      3) Twitter’s more for connecting with other people in your niche than for relentless promotion. Follow people who inspire you but don’t pester them.
      4) Tumblr, Instagram, and Pinterest miiiiiight work for you if you have a visual component to what you do or if you’re writing something with snappy quotes that could be turned into graphics.
      5) Reddit can be a very powerful tool, but you have to find the right subreddit and you absolutely will annoy people if you’re too pushy.

      If you have any budget for advertising I’d also recommend getting an account with Project Wonderful. It’s a good way to dip your toe into display advertising without spending too much cash.

    2. Red*

      I’ve also been working on my social media presence. It’s a little tough, since I’m pretty shy. It’s taken a while, but one of my pennames is finally breaking through a bit. One thing that has been a big help is befriending other people (content producers) in my niche and using some cross-promotion. The other thing that has really bumped engagement is posting snippets of my works in progress. Also, as Manders alludes to, don’t be afraid to spend some money on promotional advertisements. It’s almost impossible to get visibility if you’re starting out completely on your own, without a related community you’re already part of. Spend a little money and get your work in front of eyeballs.

    3. C Average*

      I used to work in social media and blogging for a big brand, and based on that experience, I’ve arrived at the following philosophy.

      Starting a blog or any other social media endeavor is like adopting a puppy. It’s fun to pick him out and buy him a collar and come up with a name that fits and skim “Border Collies for Dummies.” But don’t forget that your puppy is going to grow into a dog, and he’s going to require food and vet visits and daily walks and a dog sitter when you go on vacation. He’s cute, but he’s a commitment. If he turns out to be too much of a commitment, you’re going to have to re-home him, which may be challenging both logistically and emotionally. If you can, you should foster a dog before you adopt a puppy, to see if dog ownership is really for you.

      Before you start a blog, write a couple dozen blog posts. Track how long they take you to produce, and multiply that time by four. To publish your blog, you’ll likely need to create a web presence, and you’ll likely need to learn some new tools. That will take time. If your blog is successful, you may need to read, moderate, and respond to comments. You may want to periodically change the look and feel of your blog.

      Have a decommission plan in place. You may get bored with your blog, or get too busy with other stuff to attend to it. If that happens, will you leave it up but stop posting new content? Or will you take it down altogether? It’s good to have this planned out in advance.

      I have briefly considered starting a blog, but the truth is, I know I wouldn’t want to deal with it consistently, and consistency is really key. I know I don’t want a puppy, either.

      1. Manders*

        That’s a great way of putting it. The rush of starting a new project is so thrilling, but do put some thought into what it’s going to feel like to feed that beast a few years from now. In my case, life got complicated in ways I never thought it would, so my advice is to also make a plan for what to do when emergencies happen. Are you going to go on hiatus or shut down permanently? Is this the kind of project where guest bloggers could take over? Have you got enough material banked that things could keep ticking for a few weeks or months, or is this a topical subject that requires your constant attention?

        Also, get your technical ducks in a row early, and don’t choose a blogging platform just because it seems beginner-friendly. I stupidly started my blog on WordPress.com instead of WordPress.org and transferring everything over now is going to be a very annoying project.

      2. AliceBD*

        I LOVE this analogy! May I steal it?

        I do social media marketing (which includes blogging for our corporate blog, managing relationships with independent bloggers, etc.) for the largest brand in our niche. If you buy the things we sell you have heard of us, and even if if you don’t like our particular products chances are you have tried them, but if you don’t buy the things we sell chances are you have never heard of us. I get lots of questions like this from casual acquaintances at social gatherings, and they don’t understand what it takes. I’m happy to do it for other people, but I am not interested in running my own blog and building my own brand. It takes way too much effort, so I’d rather just do it as part of my official job duties.

  80. Telly*

    How can I care less about the quality of my work and just get things done? I’m a perfectionist and a mild procrastinator, but I work in a field where people seem to appreciate fast over perfect. I need some tricks to get out of my own head and just SEND the email or DO the task, without agonizing so much over the perfect wording or perfect execution. I know that I will actually do better and achieve more in the long run if I just get ‘er done and make some mistakes along the way. But right now I am spending way too much time avoiding and agonizing, rather than doing. Help!

    To be honest, I think a glass of wine would help. Alcohol quells my internal editor. But I can’t drink in the office. :-P

    1. Pinky*

      One thing I tell myself is, “I’m shooting for a B+ on this, not an A.” A metaphor I use to talk to teams about this is, “We’re building a nice solid ranch house, not a McMansion with a leaky roof.”

      Alternately, I scare myself with the memory of a former colleague who was managed out of her job because her perfectionism got so extreme, she was unable to complete her work.

      1. Telly*

        I like this. I was always an A-student and I felt such relief in college when I realized that, hey, it’s okay to prioritize my classes and only shoot for a B in a given class! I need to apply this to work.

    2. Not Phoebe*

      Oh my gosh, I do the same thing, *especially* when it comes to emails. I blame my father for that – he can’t even send a text without getting my mom to proofread it for him haha. And even after that he stares at it for another 5 minutes.

      Wish I had advice for you since I struggle with this too. But if it helps, I doubt anyone reads that much into wording, especially since they’re probably worrying about their own response. It’s like the whole concept that no one is thinking about you as much as you think they are – they’re too preoccupied with themselves.

    3. Chaordic One*

      There’s always some whiny person who will complain about the piddly 5% that wasn’t perfect and ignore that 95% that was. I’ve never really learned to tune out that person.

  81. Quieter please?*

    How does one get their coworkers to use “inside” voices? I work in a semi-open plan office and there are 3 offices surrounding where we sit then a long hallway where the rest of the offices are. You can hear them most of the way down the hall! These aren’t people’s new to work, one is late 40s/early 50s the other late 20s.

    1. Rebecca*

      If you can figure this out, please let me know. I have a coworker who cannot or will not use her inside voice, and it’s so distracting! She’s the manager’s friend, so nothing has been or will be done about it. She used to actually sing along with CD’s, the same one, day after day…and one day when she was out of the office, I took the CD, put it in its case, and then put it under her bottom desk drawer, on the floor. So, technically I didn’t take it or steal it, it was still in her area, but at least I didn’t have to suffer through one more day of Barbra Streisand duets with coworker singing along. Sadly, it’s not legal to duct tape her mouth shut.

    2. Murphy*

      Ugh, I feel you. There’s a person a few cubes behind me who has loud nonwork-related conversations across the aisle to someone in an office all day long. I know way too much about her dogs and travel plans.

      We also have a woman in upper management who keeps her door open all the time, even when she’s having long meetings on speakerphone or listening to her voicemails. All at full volume.

      In short, I have no idea. But I feel you.

    3. Drew*

      I have occasionally had to walk over to people being loud and say, “I’m sure you don’t realize how much your voices are carrying, but it’s clearly audible at my desk and it’s pretty distracting. Would you mind holding it down a bit? Thanks!” At that point, if they’re annoyed, they’re jerks, because you made a reasonable request and you did them the courtesy of assuming they didn’t realize that they were being distracting (instead of leading off with QUIET DOWN YOU ARE LOUD).

      That said, boy it’s annoying to have to do this over and over.

  82. Rosamond*

    Today I just want to vent about gendered responses to reference requests. I interviewed a pretty good candidate for a job that’s about 50% technical, 30% supervision, 20% other stuff. All of her references said her strongest point is “She gets along really well with everyone,” and 2/3 of them said, when I asked about her ability to quickly get up to speed on our technical environment said, “She got along really well with the IT guy,” and one added, “and her husband is a programmer.” If I’d felt more strongly about her as a candidate, I would have been tempted to say, “No, stop, say something else.”

    1. Audiophile*

      What does her husband being a programmer have to do with anything? Unless she’s telling previous employers that he trained her or helped her strengthen her tech skills. (Which why would she be doing that is a better question.)

      If they don’t have an adequate answer to your question, they should just say so.

      1. Rosamond*

        Exactly. I was describing this to my husband and said, “Imagine if someone asked one of your references, “How are his organizational skills and attention to detail?” and they said, “Well, his wife is a librarian!” Saying “I can’t really speak to her technical skills, sorry,” would have been an improvement.

        1. Audiophile*

          Haha, “He’s shadowed his wife at her job and he’s watched her in the stacks, organizing books.”

          Seriously, assumptions based on gender always bug me.

          Years ago, I went to a local computer guy to get my mom’s computer looked at and said I was pretty sure I knew what the problem was but didn’t feel like trying to fix it. The gentleman looked at me and “no, don’t do that, you’d probably make it worse.” Excuse me, how do you know I don’t work in the IT field? It was so rude.

    2. EddieSherbert*

      Maybe they didn’t actually have much feedback or good things to say about her? I mean, it may be a gendered or bad references things, but I find it very weird if you’re asking legit questions about her technical skills and managerial abilities and all (all three of!) her references have to say is “the techy guy here liked her” and “her husband is a programmer (?!?!?!).”

      To me, that just comes across less gendered and more like they either didn’t work closely with her or she didn’t make much of an impression.

      1. Rosamond*

        Unfortunately it was very, very clear that they thought they were giving glowing and insightful references.

  83. WayOfTheTeacup*

    I have a new worst job interview tale! Had to happen eventually lol.
    I applied for a small office a few months back and got the notice for an interview. I saw the office’s facebook page had a lot of friendly, happy worker pictures, even featuring small office birthday celebrations, so formed the impression that it was a cheerful place where everybody would be friends.
    Went to the interview, sat down in a hot meeting room, tried to start my usual spiel of “Tell interviewer about who WayOfTheTeapot is”. Barely 1 minute in interviewer cuts me off and starts flipping through my pre-printed resume instead. I was a bit surprised, but picked up on his cues and started going through my recent job achievements. He cut me off once again, saying that he doesn’t have time.
    He then described his job, saying that I will be required to shout at the consultants. I was a bit shocked at this. Seeing at my obvious confusion, he says that the job involves a lot of aggressive people who will shout at me, and he doesn’t want to hire me, only to have me crying back to him and quitting my job when I cannot take the verbal abuse.
    I mumbled my agreement and said that sounded great, but am already mentally on my way to Nopesville. Probably my first real experience of “You are not just being interviewed, but you were also interviewing the company”. Despite all their cheerful facebook photos, the office probably is anything but,

    3. Drew*

      Maybe he was hoping you’d start shouting at him during the interview.

      I SAID I WANTED TO DISCUSS MY QUALIFICATIONS, DAMMIT!!

  84. Candi*

    TL:DR My life got screwed up, partially by my bad choices, and now I need to climb back up, by school or work.

    Life is going to (have to) change rather drastically in the next five years for me. I need to start dealing with it now.

    Question: Should I job hunt with what I have or go back to school? If I go to school, what should I study? I know the broad path of what I want, but there are a lot of cups on that tray.

    Experience

    Housekeeping in a home -nine years
    Daycare
    Sears
    Personal Design Concepts
    Family-owned dollar store
    Housekeeping -mall
    Food Court -same mall
    Merry-go-round operator (first job)

    Education

    Tech college -Health Unit Coordinator certification (ward/unit clerk)
    Community College -required and office classes, but moved to tech college

    Volunteer

    Darwin Awards moderator -nine years

    During this time, I was dealing with a toxic mother, abusive relationship, multiple toxic workplaces, job gaps, undiagosed Asperger’s Syndrome, depression, and rebuilding my life with two tiny kids.

    Cut off most contact with mother (connections remain because grandkids), dumped the guy, learned the problems in my first three jobs were not my fault, found out from my mother that my grandmother had found out in her genelogical research that AS/ASDs run heavy in the family, got diagnosed (but don’t have the paperwork, and no one can find it), found out a couple years ago that my thyroid was screwed up and that was a root cause of my depression, got supplements (I can feel happy now!), and my kids are teens now.

    It’s time to get my life back on track.

    The current biggest problems I see are: my official education is pretty much useless at this point, and I don’t have paperwork saying I’ve kept up informally via net and: my housekeeping gig (that gave me flexibility for my kids) will be seen as one step away from stay at home mom. My reference network is kaput.

    After the daycare closed (owner decided to), my dad hired me as housekeeper so he could concentrate on his freelance gardening business. Government’s happy as long as taxes are paid and laws are followed. But to employers I have a pretty good idea what it looks like, money involved or not. Effectively, it’s a job gap.

    Work I can’t stand: Food service, working for Sears

    Skills/Work I like: Office work, working with computers, especially documents. I love going into software and doing a (very careful) ‘what does this button do’, researching and finding out things that teachers and coworkers who’ve been using the stuff for years didn’t know it could do. I have writing skills, but none specific to a field.

    Research. I love research, have been told I’m really good at it, and can par down the extraneous publications from those that actually contain the meat needed for the project. (“This book has information on chocolate, caramel, and licorice teapots, but that one only gives them a mention and concentrates mostly on sugar candy tea cups.”) But with Google, most people don’t need that much anymore. :(

    The job I loved most: 6-7 week holiday job for Personal Design Concepts back in 2003. Customers mailed in photos and orders, and the (temporary) worksite made mugs, t-shirts, keychains, etc. (No teapots, though.) I worked in calendars. Figuring out how to use the software beyond basic training, reduce jams in the printers, streamline the process, stop/pause a job when a picture came out wrong, and then just reprint the necessary pictures, doing something I learned quickly how to be good at. A regular schedule. Coworkers I can respect. And four weeks in, I was asked to train a new hire. (Don’t care how many people they were hiring and asking, that made me feel awesome.)

    While I don’t think I could have continued the insane pace or overtime schedule indefinitely (I was basically going home to sleep while my roommate watched the kids), I wouldn’t mind a regular job along those lines.

    Volunteering in person ties my stomach in knots.

    This site is an excellent resource and has given me a lot of hope. I’m working on my resume based on the guidelines given. I hated objectives and follow-up calls; I’m glad they’re old news.

    Thanks in advance for any and all help. :)

    1. C Average*

      Wow, you’ve been through a lot. Congratulations on the fact that you’re still standing. Seriously.

      Two thoughts here.

      Have you kept in touch with anyone from Personal Design Concepts who might be able to help you get an in somewhere? Obviously 2003 is a long time ago, but it sounds like your experience was really positive there. Who knows? Maybe someone you worked with there knows someone who’s hiring now.

      Do you live in a metro area large enough that there are some temp agencies? If so, that might be a decent place to start. You could try on a few hats without committing to something long-term. At the same time, you could build a work history and some connections, and maybe land in a place that would be open to hiring you long-term. I know temp agencies get a bad rep, sometimes deservedly so, but I worked for one a few years back and had a really good experience. I landed a semi-long-term gig with regular hours, nice co-workers, interesting duties, and decent money.

      Good luck!

    2. Graciosa*

      Actually, regarding computer and document work / research, this is basically the field of e-discovery, and I don’t expect Google to be able to replace it.

    3. Creag an Tuire*

      But with Google, most people don’t need that much anymore. :(

      I wouldn’t presume that — I’ve done research before and it was a running joke in our department that if people figured out how to use Google, we’d be out of a job — but actual Google-fu requires the same skills you described of being able to quickly separate useful sources from chaff, and most people don’t got that.

      In broader response to your question, I wonder if you should start off by temping? In my experience temp agencies don’t care overmuch about job history if you can pass the skills tests (sounds like you would), and that could let you start rebuilding a job history and network of references. Good luck!

      1. Ms Ida McTeapot*

        Temping can be a great way to get exposure to different industries and you never know what opportunities might come up. I temped for a couple years and started at my current job expecting it to be for a few weeks….ten years later I have gone from an admin temp position, to entry level, and now a professional role.

        1. AliceBD*

          My organization has hired several people from temp positions. Also, find out if there really is a good “foot in the door” position at a company. At my organization, I know of 3 people in the past 6 or 7 years who have been hired to be the front desk person (at least 1 who had started with us as a temp doing something else) and then moved to different positions within the company. Some companies don’t have that of course, but ours does for that position.

    4. Slippy*

      Well if you can write well and are not afraid of computers/technical concepts god knows we need more technical writers.

    5. Pearly Girl*

      Do you have a local community college or technical college center that offers advice to would-be students or, you know, just anyone?

      Maybe you can get free career advice there.

      Best of luck to you!

    6. catsAreCool*

      You’ve gotten past a lot of tough stuff. I think once you get a job you like, life is going to seem so much easier in comparison with what you’ve already been through.

    7. Candi*

      Thanks to everyone! :) Sorry to get back so late.

      I didn’t even think of temp agencies. Not sure about this city, but the next should have a few.

      So good research skills are still a thing to stick on the resume?? That’s good to know!

      There’s a community college a twenty-minute walk from here. It’s a branch of the one I didn’t graduate from, and still has a stellar reputation. I’ve been poking around their grants and assistance page. (My kids probably do not consider it a bonus it’s about 1/8 of a mile from their high school.) :p

      The measure in walking? I can’t drive. As in senses get overloaded and shut down can’t drive. Luckily this county has a great transit system. I’d also be willing to use Uber as necessary as paychecks came in. (Dad can only give me rides in the morning, before business hours.)

      As for still standing… I made some FANTASTIC friends on the net. Joined a few sites for a favorite fandom, got to know people, and a few of them… having those hands reaching out and those ears to listen make a difference.

  85. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

    Got a story for you.

    So Tuesday we met some sales goals that triggered a “free lunch for everybody!” event. Email was sent out to the division, free lunch on Thursday. That was a little odd because free lunch is usually the next day but not that odd to have it a day later.

    Wednesday lunch shows up from one of the places that caters for us. The guy who ordered was out of the building but one of the managers receives the lunch, signs for it, and figures, day was just wrong in the email. She let’s everybody know “lunch is here” and the horde descends.

    Another odd thing, lunch was a bit short. Everybody got something but it wasn’t the same level of excellent ordering that guy who orders lunch usually achieves. Lunch will usually last a couple of hours and couple of helpings and this was snapped up in 20 minutes.

    Can you see the punch line to the story coming?

    Guy (who had been out to lunch! another clue!) steps back in the building.

    YES, he had ordered that lunch.
    BUT, that lunch was supposed to be delivered to an entirely different address. The entire lunch was for our warehouse crew 3/4 of a mile away.

    We’re now at about 1/2 hour after the lunch was delivered. Guy calls the catering place about delivering to the wrong address. Catering place says “omg we are so sorry, the delivery driver just went to the wrong facility, we can see here you gave us the right address. We’ll be over to pick it up and redeliver right away!”

    Ha.

    So there’s no food, a bunch of pissed off warehouse people waiting for *their* free lunch and a catering company who has to remake everything in one fast whiz. (This was a not quite $400 lunch so I’ not sure who “ate” what part of what fees on that.)

    Can you imagine what the people at the catering place had to say about us? It’s hilarious. A misdelivered $400 lunch which got entirely eaten within 10 minutes.

    *burp*

    1. neverjaunty*

      “Wow! They loved our food!”, I hope.

      I would not be placing bets on the delivery crew’s survival chances when the kitchen crew was told they had to remake everything in a hurry.

    2. Bad Candidate*

      That’s funny. I can totally see this happening too. Poor warehouse guys. I hope they got a good lunch eventually.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes me too.
        Wouldn’t the email have been clear it was for warehouse people though? I guess not…

        1. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

          Entirely different building, 3/4 a mile away from each other. It never occurred to Lunch Ordering Guy that there needed to be any kind of cross notification of different lunches to different addresses that he scheduled for different days.

          The real mess up, of course, is on the caterer delivery guy’s part. The right address was on the ticket clear as day. His car probably auto piloted to our address. So everybody’s mistake is understandable but still hilarious that misdelivered food disappeared THAT fast.

      2. Wakeen Teapots, Ltd.*

        They did. Fortunately, this all happened at 11:15am, we’re early eaters!, so the warehouse staff got their lunch before 1. With a lot of foot tapping in between.

    3. C Average*

      Hahahaha! Great story.

      At my old job, some department or meeting or other got a catered lunch on a more or less daily basis. It was very common to pass a big spread in the hallway bearing a large sign that read “This food is for the Chocolate Teapot Division. Everyone else, keep your greedy mitts off.”

      Because, yeah, if the food is there, it’s gonna disappear fast.

    5. Drew*

      Had a similar thing happen at work a month or so ago. CEO orders pizza for one of the teams that had busted their butts to meet a deadline. CEO tells pizza driver to come to the back entrance. Pizza driver does not, and the person who answered the door just heard “CEO ordered pizza” and assumed it was for everyone. Hilarity ensued.

      In fairness, CEO did say he should have mentioned something to the two or three people most likely to answer the door and didn’t blame them at all for what happened.

  86. Myrin*

    You guuuuuuys, I received the results for my master’s thesis the day before yesterday and I passed with the best grade possible (a 1,0, if anyone who’s German or familiar with how German grading works reads this)! I’m so happy! :D

    2. C Average*

      Congratulations!

      (Or Herzliche Glückwünsche? I hope that actually means “congratulations.” Google Translate says it does.)

      1. Myrin*

        Thank you, and it does! “Herzlichen Glückwunsch” (the singular) is more common but you can use the plural without problems. :)

  88. Dang*

    If your manager tells you at your review that you should receive a promotion in “the very near future,” how do you interpret that? PS 6 months has passed with no word. I’m not mad about it or anything but I find it odd.

    2. Chris*

      You should say ‘Hey, I’m just wondering – you mentioned a while back that you felt I would receive a promotion in the very near future, and it’s been a few months. I’m still interested in more responsibility and advancing my career, so I’m wondering if you have a more definite timeline on this?’

      They brought it up in the first place, and this is a ‘positive’ way to remind them of it and see what’s going on.

  89. Zoe Karvounopsina*

    I have been on my first ever conference! I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t really worth it for my employers. (I was exhibiting, it was really badly organised. Among MANY other things, I was expected to pay for my own food, which the manager sending me said was unheard of. Also, they had the wrong logo for us, they didn’t give us badges, they couldn’t work out how to turn of the air condition, and only had a sad sandwich stand for the delegates… ) This also means that I have turned in my first ever expenses forms, and will probably be a little jumpy until those are approved, and I can stop feeling bad over taxis.

    I started my new job in mid-July, as temp to perm, and became perm in August. Really enjoying it, and I feel good about it. I am at the point where I’m starting to get an understanding of the job. It turns out that my previous job, where “Can we talk” meant “You’ve really fucked up this time,” has not prepared me for a position where regular check ins are the norm.

  90. ThatGirl*

    My position in a company I truly loved and was wholeheartedly devoted to was abolished two weeks and two days ago, and I’m still in shock – I’d been there for three years and saw myself there for another 10. In my bubble of anger-fuelled motivation and anxiety at being so unexpectedly unemployed, I messed up by rushing into round after round of job applications, sending my incomplete, definitely-work-in-progress CV to a couple employers I was really interested in. Now, looking back and taking the advice from an HR consultant I’ve been matched with by my former employer, I’m scared I’ve burnt those for the next little while – is there a way to recover from that? Saying it was the wrong file just makes me look like an idiot, and saying it was a first draft makes me sound the opposite of what I’m selling myself as – meticulous and with great attention to detail, quality-oriented, etcetera.

    1. Kai*

      I think it depends in part on how large the organization is. For a really big company, chances are no one would notice, and the incomplete CV wouldn’t make it past HR anyway. In those cases I wouldn’t say anything at all.

      For a smaller company, it depends, but I wouldn’t say that you have no chance with them ever again. You could certainly apply for future positions, though I wouldn’t try to reapply with a correct CV for the ones you just applied to. If you apply to those employers in the future, just apply and proceed normally, because good chance if you brought up the time you sent in an incomplete CV a while back, you’d be drawing attention to something that they’d never noticed in the first place.

  91. Minion*

    So, I’m curious. I see a lot of comments with some version of, “Do you work at my company? You just described my boss (or employee, or work environment, etc.)!”
    Has there ever been anyone on here that found out they actually did work with another person on here? Or that they knew someone?
    Again, just curious.

    1. Graciosa*

      Alison has said that there have been a few – I think it was very few – cases identifying a specific company, but it’s rare. It’s much more common for people to make an incorrect assumption.

      1. Kelly L.*

        I think a lot of times, it’s just a joke. Sometimes people (in this forum and others) will say “Are you me?” if an experience is very close to their own, or “I didn’t know my spouse was a bigamist” if an OP’s spouse puts the empty milk carton back in the fridge and so does theirs.

        1. Minion*

          Yeah. I get that it’s a joke…I’ve said the same thing myself. I was just curious if it had ever led to an “OMG, We DO know each other!” kind of thing.

    2. Pwyll*

      Without disclosing too much, we recognized a scenario in one of the “ask the commenters” posts and had to have a conversation with an intern who posted it. The details were exactly what we knew happened at a work event. At the time we knew part of the story and addressed it as a simple faux pas of an intern, but the additional details he wrote on AAM that we didn’t know about turned it into entirely inappropriate territory such that we had to address it with him.

      1. Pwyll*

        I should note: we started the conversation off “We saw this on the internet and were curious about it” and he immediately admitted to writing it.

      3. Minion*

        That’s interesting! I guess it must have been weird to be reading something and coming to the uneasy conclusion that this probably was written by someone you know and work with!
        I don’t know how I’d handle that if I came across a post that I was pretty sure was written by someone here. It might just give me some good insight as to what problems they were facing though.

        1. Pwyll*

          I actually have quite a few coworkers from that job who are readers here (hi guys) but we don’t reveal to each other the names we use as commenters.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It happened at least once that I know of.

      I actually really try to discourage people from the “I think I know where you work” comments because it can inadvertently compromise someone’s anonymity or just make them feel uneasy. (That said, most of the time when people say it, it’s in response to something that is fairly common and not particularly identifying.)

    4. LCL*

      Not yet. This site was blocked as part of an IT security upgrade. IT encouraged us to contact them about sites that shouldn’t be blocked. I contacted them, and was able to see on the ecopy of the service request that there were about 8 of us asking for AAM to be unblocked.

      3. WayOfTheTeacup*

        My own company blocks all career sites too (lol no job hunting on the company computer!), although I think AAM really should be spared, because it’s a great resource for company management and work place etiquette too

  92. Zoe Karvounopsina*

    I have been on my first ever conference! I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t really worth it for my employers. (I was exhibiting, it was really badly organised. Among MANY other things, I was expected to pay for my own food, which the manager sending me said was unheard of. Also, they had the wrong logo for us, they didn’t give us badges, they couldn’t work out how to turn of the air condition, and only had a sad sandwich stand for the delegates… ) This also means that I have turned in my first ever expenses forms, and will probably be a little jumpy until those are approved, and I can stop feeling bad over taxis.

    I started my new job in mid-July, as temp to perm, and became perm in August. Really enjoying it, and I feel good about it. I am at the point where I’m starting to get an understanding of the job. It turns out that my previous job, where “Can we talk” meant “You’ve really messed up this time,” has not prepared me for a position where regular check ins are the norm.

    (Sorry, first comment had a word that…was not messed…in it, and got caught in moderation queue! Ignore it!)

    1. Minion*

      I saw that yesterday and I laughed way too hard at it! My eyes just kept getting wider and wider as the guy just kept on with the pretense. It was great!

  94. NJ Anon*

    Should my resonse to an interview question about why I am leaving an organization be more honest/transparent because I am a director? I feel like “it wasn’t a good fit” might not fly.
    Thoughts?

    1. Graciosa*

      Director as job title (usually between manager and VP) or director as member of the board?

      In the first case, you should not do anything different from following the standard advice for dealing with this kind of situation.

      In the latter, I could see an argument for a little bit more information, but it would depend upon the circumstances.

    2. Xtra Anon Today*

      It might depend on what the honest response is… Can you give us a bit more context about what you’d say if you were being transparent?

      1. NJ Anon*

        I am a director at a nonprofit that reports to the executive director. She’s a nice person but is sorely lacking in job skills. This causes more work for me (And others). She has no leadership, communication or management skills. She comes in my office and cries. She is very insecure. I just am tired of working in a disorganized, discombobulated, financially challenged organization.

        1. Chris*

          ‘While my experience in non-profit x was valuable, there were a number of financial challenges in the organization, and I felt that my leadership style would mesh better with a different organization, where I could provide significantly higher value. In your organization, for example, I really like that you do x, y, and z, as these are things that I believe strongly in, and I would be happy to discuss specific points of how I feel my style would work well with your team’.

          1. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

            I like this. As an executive director this can be a challenging question. I’m not actively looking, but you never know when the right opportunity will open up.

  95. Anon Accountant*

    So my company is starting to learn from our last terrible secretary, Jane. She trained her replacement and her training took a little too well. “Lucy” went and told the managing partner this week about him leaving 2 days early to do home remodeling work.

    Plus she told him about his business partner not taking a few calls from certain people. Yes she actually told a partner about his business partner not taking a few calls.

    He stopped that right away and told her to focus on her own business and work. So management IS able to learn and change.

  96. Sally Sparrow*

    Finally was able to have a check-in/talk with my supervisor and got basically everything cleared up (at least on my end) about what I should and should not be doing and some more projects/things to do. There still remains communication issues throughout my department, but at least on my end I know I’m not dropping anything. Whether anything will get communicated to everyone else (i.e. the CW who’s responsibility it is to make sure all the teapot parts are organized, since it is something I’ve been told I shouldn’t be doing) – well that remains to be seen

  97. Althea*

    My friend (Jon) and his wife (Catelyn) both do some paid and some pro bono work in their field, with Jon having better/more credentials than Catelyn.

    Jon’s former business partner (Cersei) has been phoning clients of Catelyn’s – so far pro bono ones, but including one that would have given them some good exposure in the media and potentially brought in new business – and badmouthing her. She usually says that Catelyn is unqualified and that utilizing her services could be dangerous.

    Cersei is also highly credentialed in the field and might be relying on that to improve her impact when she makes statements about Catelyn’s qualifications. However, Catelyn’s credential levels are common in the field. So far as I can tell, Cersei is only doing this to Catelyn, out of spite, rather than genuine concern (considering she doesn’t go around doing the same thing to others in the field).

    Do Jon and Catelyn have any options for making her stop? This is not a field with well-accepted and regulated standards.

    1. neverjaunty*

      They might want to talk to a lawyer. Interfering in business relationships is often actionable (as is defamation, if what Cersei says is bad enough). That said, probably people are wondering why this loon is calling them.

    2. Graciosa*

      This is a legal question that needs to be answered by an attorney licensed in that state. If the actual damage (lost business) is serious enough to make it worth while, you should advise Jon and Catelyn to talk to one and find out.

      From a purely business perspective, this is not a situation where there is another authority figure (manager, licensing body, etc.) that Jon and Catelyn can appeal to to “make” Cersei stop.

  98. Dang*

    If your boss tells you at your review that you should have a promotion “in the very near future,” how would you interpret that? 6 months has gone by with no word- I’m not mad or obsessing, it’ll happen when it happens. Just curious how you would interpret that phrase?

    2. LQ*

      I would definitely ask. Also worth considering your corporate culture. Mine is highly structured government and union. My boss and I talked about it, a year and a half later it happened. I was pretty pleased it was that quick considering how long I’d been in the job and what I saw in others around me. I’ve known people at businesses where 2 weeks would be too long.

      Go ask. Talk to your boss about this. I wouldn’t just assume “it’ll happen when it happens” sometimes you have to check in. Sometimes things take a long time. But your boss should be able to give you and idea of that too.

  99. Coffee and Mountains*

    Celebrating a small victory where a difficult co-worker from another department who disagreed with a decision I made and tried to take it above my head quit without notice earlier in the week!

  100. ATXFay*

    To all of the Executive, Administrative & Personal Assistants out there: Please tell me this isn’t just me. I started a new gig as an EA to a national VP about 18 months ago. Since I’ve started working for him, I’ve really been challenged at work and have really grown as an EA. My skill set has really been refined, my organization levels are through the roof, and I’m getting great exposure to high level execs in tons of different firms. My issue? I have become a mess at home. I feel that by the time I “clock out” (which, in my role, means I’m never *really* off) I can’t even think straight. I walk out the door forgetting to set the alarm, lose my keys, misplace and accidentally throw paperwork out.. and overall, drive my hubby crazy. I’ve never been disorganized at home – at worst, an organized mess while moving. Does anyone else have this issue of being spot on at work and then a complete disaster at home? I’m trying to learn how to make things easier for myself – I know I have all of the tools, and an amazing spouse who helps keep track of my lost marbles – but I can’t seem to apply the same or even remotely close level of attention to detail in my personal life these days.

    1. ASJ*

      Frankly speaking, I think you only have so many spoons in a day to give. And it sounds like you’re using most of them at work, so you don’t have many left when it comes to your personal life. I’m an admin assistant; I can relate somewhat, though for me it’s more on the social side. Sometimes comparing yourself to how you used to be is the worst thing you can do – can you accept, even a little, that this is you as you are now instead of beating yourself up?

      1. Camellia*

        This. I work in IT and do mostly ‘new project’ work, which means I have to continually learn new things very fast. Luckily I’m great at it; this year alone I have participated in three brand new projects.

        At home I can’t learn how to do much of anything on my computer, hate spending any time doing things on my computer, and constantly postpone things like ‘setting up access to the sparkling new website that your health care provider has provided so that you can access all your records on line!’ I am eyeing an email that my husband sent me three weeks ago with a link that will tell me ’17 things I didn’t know I could do with Facebook!’ (yes, that’s the actual title) and that I haven’t even so much as clicked on yet. Considering that I have exactly three people that I have given (with my husband’s help) access to FB, I don’t know that I need 17 more things to do with it. My “lack” of computer skills is a running joke with my family. Sometimes to the extent that I have to remind myself that I actually DO have awesome computer skills – I just expend them all at work. Along with my mental capacity for learning new things.

        My situation is not quite like yours in that my husband knew what he was getting with me and yours is having to adjust to the ‘new’ you. I suggest telling him frankly what is up, if you haven’t yet. Then pamper and coddle him shamelessly for picking up what you can no longer handle. :)

        1. ATXFay*

          SO glad it’s not just me!! I guess I don’t know anyone else personally that has the same issues as I do. I’ll make you a deal.. I’ll help you with computer stuff (since it’s not my own and that means I’ll rock it) and you do my organizing! Ha!

          Also, I don’t think I’m beating myself up. More like exploring a quirk that doesn’t make sense. It would be like being a mechanic but the not being able to change a flat on my own car.

  101. Not Phoebe*

    Hey all!

    I’m the letter writer from yesterday who had their part of a team report deleted by coworkers. I’m so grateful to all the thoughtful and insightful comments, and took a lot of folks’ security recommendations to heart to start protecting myself from this happening in the future. I also met with my boss this morning to touch base, and used Alison’s (very helpful) script to explain the situation as factually as I could. Our office walls are pretty thin so there’s a good chance I was overheard, but I don’t think I threw anyone under the bus – just stated the facts of what happened, and that I don’t need Boss to do anything about it right now but wanted to make her aware. And honestly, I’m not about to walk on eggshells over a situation that I had no part in causing.

    Fortunately, Boss has my back and assured me I can come to her for issues like this any time. Apparently she and Monica (one of the women in question) met separately, and my boss straight up told Monica that she (boss) asked me to include that info in my part of the reports, and while going forward I can use Monica’s feedback on just offering highlights, it was a good feeling to know that my boss came to my defense.

    I didn’t mention this in the letter, but I really do love this job – it’s something I’ve been working towards for the past few years. I also feel like, this incident aside, I am respected and have earned a good reputation here – which is probably why I’m being trained on some new tasks. There’s a lot of opportunity for me at this place, and I’m too stubborn to let this situation get the best of me. That said, fool me once….

    But again, thanks to everyone for your advice – it is greatly appreciated :)

  102. Patrick*

    Hey y’all,

    I just received an offer I’m excited about after an extensive interviewing process which included the company flying me out-of-state to their location. Their offer is right in the middle of their initial posted range. When the hiring manager had asked if I was fine with the posted salary, I had said I’d be fine with it contingent on the benefits package.

    In reality, I am only fine with the top number of the range, not the middle. Now that I have an offer, which I said I need some time to think over, I’m trying to figure out how to secure that top number. If there was no range posted, I would have been inclined to counter with a higher number than what I’d be OK with, but in this case, I’m concerned that doing so would come across poorly since the higher number would be outside their posted range.

    I currently make much more as a freelancer, but having factored in the benefits package, this would be a mutually beneficial agreement if we could agree to that top-of-the-range number. Should I bring up my current income as a negotiating tactic, or stick with only talking about what I’d bring to the company?

    My final question is whether you have any suggestion on the right language to bring up growth trajectory – how quickly and likely is this salary going to increase in the years to come?

    Thank you so much.

    Patrick

    1. Graciosa*

      You probably need to focus on market value (not current income) and what you bring to this employer.

      However, I can’t help feeling that you’re looking for contradictory things here. If you were to start at the top of the range, there won’t be any growth trajectory for your maxed-out salary.

  103. Lily Rowan*

    How do you go back to being a generalist after years of specialization?

    I’ve been in the teapot field for many years, and started out working on all the parts of teapots, but over the years have specialized more and more, and now I’m basically an expert on white chocolate teapot lids. The problem is, at my level, there just aren’t that many jobs that focus on lids. I would argue that understanding lids means I have to understand the whole teapot, but how do I make that case in an interview? Or more to the point, in my resume/cover letter? Postings I see tend to specifically call out spout experience, which I don’t have.

    1. Graciosa*

      Can you look for (or even initiate / lead) some projects that address the whole teapot?

      In my area, there are usually at least occasional opportunities for cross-functional collaboration, although I obviously don’t know much about yours. This lets you add project achievements to your resume that are not limited to your particular niche, and gives you more to talk about in interviews.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Oh, interesting. I should think about that — I’ve been more focused on trying to get out than on making the most of my current job.

  104. Underemployed, Trapped, and Imploding*

    I’m spiraling down to an implosion and I don’t know how to stop it.

    I’m slipping at work, badly. I’m employed at the same job I got after college, but it’s part time and was underemployed when I was first hired. That was six and a half years ago, and I switched offices but I’m still in the same company doing pretty much the same things. I have no benefits, and I messed things up so I don’t even have the meager coverage from Medicaid.

    I feel like I’ve irreparably screwed up my life. I’ve been struggling for YEARS job hunting- employers don’t want to give me the time of day. My resume is cr*p because I don’t have anything impressive TO put on it. And for a long time I could take comfort that at least what I did, I was doing well…but that hasn’t been true the last few weeks. I can’t focus at all. I don’t want to be at work, I don’t even want to do the tasks that I enjoyed before. My boss has been trying to get me moved to full time, but I’m not sure he has the political capital for it even with me acing everything (which I’m not).

    Add to it that the past year+ has seen a drastic increase in the number of hours I’ve been asked to work, I’m still treated as part time. Even though at least half of that time I was working FT hours, and the first half of the year was insane because I was helping cover for turnover at three offices (including my own) while there were other big changes going on. All the others that got piled on have PTO that they could and did use to get away and decompress. That’s not an option for me, no matter how badly I need it.

    Add to it stress from outside. I’ve been fighting undiagnosed mental issues for years, but now they’re getting worse. And my physical health took a nosedive, which is making my mental issues. I need to see professionals but can’t afford it due to lack of insurance (and I’m super-worried that my physical problems will only be solved by surgery). I can’t do the standard self-care– I can’t get any more sleep due to factors outside of my control. I can’t eat any healthier. I can’t exercise, because that would aggravate the physical problems I’m having. I used to be able to put on a good face at work, but lately that’s been cracking and I’ve started crying even when trying to hold it in and wait until after work. My mental state is beyond what DIY CBT can help with.

    I’m falling apart at the seams and don’t know what to do. I need to get a new job, one that can pay me an amount that is somewhat livable and has benefits. I need to be able to focus at work and get stuff done. Both of those seem like impossible tasks at the moment.

    1. Bad Candidate*

      *hugs* Does your city maybe have a free or low cost clinic? Many offer mental health services in additional to standard medical care. Even if you don’t qualify for Medicaid, they might be able to help you out.

      1. Underemployed, Trapped, and Imploding*

        Thank you. I have no idea what’s available locally. Coworkers have tried to offer places, but they were talking about people near their homes, which are prohibitively far from me.

        I qualified for Medicaid before, and I plan to apply for state-assisted coverage when that opens up if I don’t have anything else by then… but that’s still months away.

    2. Graciosa*

      I don’t want to discourage you, but this may not be the right time to worry about a new job. Your most important priority needs to be self-care. Everything else can wait.

      My only advice for you is to ask for help, and keep asking. Google every resource and organization you can think of for *one* of your most pressing issues (don’t put yourself under pressure by trying to solve everything at once) and start calling. Or emailing. I’m tempted to suggest starting with a major organization like the Red Cross or Salvation Army that is likely to have contacts with multiple programs.

      If this task seems too overwhelming, then break it down and do what you can. Send one email a day, or make one call a week, or add one possible resource name to your list by Day, or whatever you can manage.

      I’m suggesting this because your idea that you need to get a job with benefits in order to get better is going to leave you feeling trapped and powerless. You are less likely to be able to get a job while you’re dealing with all these issues (not because you’re unworthy, but simply because that level of stress means you’re not at your best) although it is hard to do and significantly outside your control under the best circumstances.

      If you can start to make some progress on other issues – and feel less trapped and powerless – you may find yourself in a better position to look for another job. But YOU need to be your priority right now, and you’re trying to cope with more than anyone should.

      So start asking for help and keep asking.

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and wish you success.

      1. C Average*

        This.

        Also, the kind of research required to turn up resources can itself feel overwhelming when you’re in a place like what you describe. Is there someone in your life–a friend, a family member–to whom you can confide, and who can help you suss out helpful resources?

        1. jax*

          The public library also might be able to help you. Many already have the list of resources printed up in one place.

    3. JMegan*

      Oh my goodness, you have so much on your plate right now. No wonder you’re stressed.

      Does your workplace have an EAP you can access? Many do, even for part-timers. Alternatively, if you think your boss would be sympathetic, you might be able to talk to him about finding a way for you to use it. It does sound he has your back, so hopefully he’ll be able to help you figure something out. (I realize that this might mean disclosing some of your mental or physical health issues with him, so you might want to decide how much you’re willing to discuss, before you talk to him.)

      Many cities have a 211 line (phone number or website) that can set you up with social services for free or at a very low cost as well. Google “211 [name of city]” to see what’s available.

      Best of luck to you, and also strength vibes to help you get through all this.

      1. Underemployed, Trapped, and Imploding*

        Unfortunately, the company’s EAP is only for benefits-eligible employees. My hours recently would qualify me to be benefits-eligible…except that as far as HR’s concerned they’re “temporary” hours, and as per the employee handbook, temporary hours don’t count towards eligibility.

    4. TCO*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this, and I agree that you’d benefit from some professional help. Does your employer offer an EAP (Employee Assistance Program)? If so, that’s probably open to all employees whether or not they’re eligible for more standard benefits. An EAP can offer free counseling sessions, referrals, and other support. Best wishes.

      1. Underemployed, Trapped, and Imploding*

        Thank you. As I said in the reply above, I don’t qualify for access to the company’s EAP.

    5. LCL*

      I’m so sorry you are going through this. The not knowing what’s going on with your job is affecting everything else. I think you should talk to your boss, and find out if your change to full time status is actually being worked on and what will have to happen. Also ask if there is any way you can get on the companies’ insurance.

      All too often, management’s “I’m working on that” really means “there’s no chance” but the manager is unable or unwilling to be that blunt and say so. I think knowing your job’s future might help you.

      1. Underemployed, Trapped, and Imploding*

        I’m very confident that my boss is genuinely working to get me moved to FT. He’s brought it up in one-on-ones, but he’s also mentioned it to others as well, including last week in a team meeting. He’s given every indication that this is part of how he sees our office evolving. The reason I’m wondering if he has the political capital to get it done is because he’s been talking about it since March.

    6. Drew*

      I don’t have suggestions beyond what other commenters have offered, but you have all my sympathy and wishes for improvement. Sounds like you’re in a hard spot and coping about as well as could be expected.

    7. AliceBD*

      Hugs to you!

      If you’re checking out resources in your area, and if the suggestions the other commenters have mentioned don’t pan out for finding help, I also encourage you to talk to the religious leaders at a local religious congregation; I would probably focus on mainstream religious congregations (so not a fringe group that is 20 people following a leader who is not affiliated with anyone else and therefore not tapped into local networks). It is my experience that they tend to know local resources that are available and can help you get connected, even if you are not a member of that religious group. I have witness this with leaders of religious groups I have been a part of. I know there are some free/low-cost services in my city that are accessible via a referral from a local religious leader or from social services, for example. Or they may have a program like the congregation I grew up in had, which had a fund explicitly to pay for major one-off expenses for people who needed that extra bit of help (for example, help with outfitting a van to be wheelchair-accessible; I’m thinking in case you end up needing surgery). Best wishes to you.

  105. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    Okay, so this is something that is going on at my sister’s office and I’m curious if anyone has advice on how to handle it. My sister has a large candy dish on her desk at work. She stocks it herself (purchasing the candy with her own $) and is happy to share with coworkers who come in and out of her office. However, recently, she brought in a candy that happens to be her boss’ favorite, and her boss came to the candy dish and took a LOT of that type, which she then proceeded to store in her own desk. She was telling me about it and since it’s her boss, she doesn’t really want to say anything, but we both thought it was tacky/rude. My suggestion is to just not buy that type of candy anymore… if it was a peer, I’d say that she could say something to the person, but since it’s her boss, it just seems weird.

      1. Red*

        Same. Her boss behaved in a tacky way towards a subordinate — that’s probably not something your sister can change.

    2. ASJ*

      Wow, not sure what makes people think that’s okay. I agree, super rude and tacky. If your sister happens to like that candy, I suggest she keep it in her desk instead of stocking the bowl.

    3. LQ*

      I’m on the just not buy it any more. You have learned a lesson.

      I have a candy jar. People come by and take a piece or two. (Once someone came to me in a panic and took all I had because they needed it for a training/game thing, but they paid me back with way more candy and a coffee card for me.) I know there is something that one person will eat all of it, I just don’t buy it unless I’m really happy with that person, then I just get them a regular sized bar and leave it on their desk. Not buying it if she buys a variety likely won’t be noticed. If it is then she can just say, oh I didn’t think of it and move on. Totally agree about it being very weird, but just not buying any more of it is the solution I’d go with.

    5. Miaw*

      I’d say let it go. Candy is not a good reason (in fact, it is very petty) to create awkward situation with your own boss. Just don’t buy that candy anymore if she doesn’t want to share.

  106. ARoseIsARose*

    I found out today that our company is planning on having an Angel Tree for Christmas. We’ve had toy drives in the past, but not like this. Apparently (and I say this because the details haven’t been fully released yet) each employee will be expected to participate. They are preparing one tag per employee – including an employee that is part-time, on-call, and works from home. I don’t think our names will be attached, but I wouldn’t put it past the people who came up with this to find a way to have each employee end up with a name. I’m not sure how to take this. On the one hand, I’ve participated in the Angel Tree before, and I loved it. On the other, I already give Shoebox donations through the year to our church, along with a couple of other charities my family gives to at Christmas. I don’t know whether to drop something we’ve already planned to do, or just not choose a tag. We’re fairly small, so a tag not taken will definitely be noticeable, and then speculated about in certain circles.

    2. ASJ*

      Yeaaah I don’t foresee this ending well. Depending on how much you care about the speculation, I might go for not taking a tag and then just saying “I’ve already made my charitable contributions this year, actually” if asked.

      1. Drew*

        “It’s a great cause, and I would love to help, but I’ve already committed my charitable giving to another worthy organization.”

    3. Brownie Queen*

      I hate being voluntold especially for charity drives. I once got in trouble for throwing away the United Way propaganda I was given.

      If you can choose to not participate and not have it held against you then stick to your guns and do what feels right for you.

      1. Karo*

        I was voluntold onto my company’s United Way campaign board. I take a certain perverse pleasure in refusing to donate to it.

  107. Sigrid*

    Can any accountant types, or those who work with accountants, tell me how valuable a CPA degree is? My wife is wants to change careers, but we’re not sure how much to invest in a degree.

    1. Red*

      A CPA license or an accounting degree? I have an M.S. in accounting, but I stopped pursuing a CPA license as it didn’t make much financial sense in my position — for someone like me, who couldn’t easily drop everything (including a relationship) to move to a major city to pursue an internship with one of the Big Accounting firms, meeting the work requirements for the license was prohibitively expensive and difficult. Moreover, the earning potential in my area turned out to be pretty bad, contrary to what all the accounting grad programs told me. Yikes. Staff accountant positions were plentiful, though, so I don’t regret my degree at all. It’s been much more useful to me as a professional and as a private citizen than I expected.

      I’m not sure I would recommend chasing after the license (you’ve got the exams, which are expensive and brutal, and prep for exams, which is expensive, and then actually obtaining the license, and the requirements for that vary by state). She should have a look at your state’s licensing requirements and confirm them with the state CPA board (because she might find, like I did, that the websites are ALL out of date and there are more requirements than listed), then come up with her plans A, B, and C for fulfilling said requirements. If she doesn’t have an undergraduate accounting degree or complementary degree, she’ll also need to pay attention to the college credit hours required as well as specific courses (there are not only specific classes that your state may require, but also specific numbers of hours at different “tiers” – I have plenty of basic and advanced course hours, but not enough intermediate hours to meet my state’s requirements!) and then contact whatever academic programs she’s thinking about to see how they will fulfill her needs. There’s a surprising amount of logistics involved in qualifying for the CPA exams and licenses and it can be overwhelming.

      1. Sigrid*

        I guess that’s really my question – given the hassle and expense of a CPA license, is it worth it over a simple accounting degree in terms of pay and desirability to employers?

    2. Master Bean Counter*

      I’ve doubled my salary in the private industry since earning my Master’s Degree and CPA. But I was working as an accountant before going back for my Masters. There are many things to consider, does she have a current degree? Will hours transfer? How many more accounting hours will she need?
      Figure out the quickest and cheapest way to get the classroom hours to meet the education requirements. Figure out how she will meet the work requirement. On the good side many accounting firms will pay for the test prep and the tests. If she’s private industry, she may have to pay for it all herself.
      Test preps can be fairy cheap, i.e. $200 for the Wiley Books, or expensive, $3K or better for Becker Test Prep.
      The tests are expensive, figure at least $1,500. And that doesn’t include travel expenses if you don’t live close to a major city.
      The CPA credential is one heck of a marketing tool for a person and does usually have a fairly good rate of return. But you really have to be committed to the process.

    3. Hey Jude*

      An ex-love is a CPA. However, this has been his career path since school. Out of undergrad he went to work as an accountant at EY, and then went on to grad school. After completing his Masters, his CPA licensing tests were paid for by EY while he was employed there. He had to pay for a second go at any test he didn’t pass on the first try though. He has since gone into private industry. He’s in the higher 5 figure’s in salary last I knew, but may be higher than that now. I don’t know what a “valuable” career & salary is for you and your wife’s situation though or how different the path would look to try it later in your career, instead of going from undergrad>big 4 > to industry after.

    4. Sophie Winston*

      Without a degree you can get a job as a bookkeeper or clerk (accounts payable, payroll processing, etc.). Depending on the company these will require different levels of skills and may be more general entry level or low level professional track. A couple years of any other type of office work will help get your foot in the door, as will a business related associate’s degree. These positions can be dead ends and pay about $25-40K around here depending on complexity of the work (4 person median family income about $75K in my county)

      An accountant level position is the first full fledged step on the professional accounting ladder and will nearly always require a bachelor’s degree. This includes “general” accounting, cost accounting, and internal and external auditing. You can move up this ladder without a masters or CPA, but they can help. These positions start 45-60K around here, the higher end for auditors and other specialties (cost, tax, etc.)

      You don’t have to work at a big 4 to be a CPA. There are many smaller audit firms, and some states will count other types of accounting experience. As well as researching your own state’s requirements, be sure to look at the requirements of other states you may move to, such as where family lives or your dream locale. The actual license, and with it the right to put CPA after your name, are issued by individual states and only good in that state. Some states are easy for reciprocal agreements, but others are quite restrictive (Florida comes to mind – last I knew it required 5 years residency!).

      With 3-5 years experience and a CPA license, you could command $75-90K as an audit or accounting manager. But not everyone who starts gets there. Many of those first and second year auditors fail the “up or out” annual reviews and end up starting over on the first general accounting step. And you can get those positions by working your way up in a company as well.

      Oh, did I mention that working at a big 4 means many, many 80 hour weeks, sleeping in a hotel away from home? Also, internal audit can involve 25-75% travel, including international. Those salaries come at a price unless you are very, very lucky.

  108. stelmselms*

    I moved into a full time Executive Assistant position for a high-level exec about eight months ago after working 30 hours/week in a similar position for another department for 2 1/2 years. I had always worked full-time before that, but working part-time was very beneficial to our family and came with personal benefits I never experienced before. I have been struggling with my full-time schedule and my heart hasn’t always been in my work in my newer position because of it. Well, on Wednesday, I went to my boss all prepared with a mental PowerPoint presentation of how I could make it work if he would let me reduce my hours. I hardly got out, “I’d like to ask if I could try working part-time on a trial basis” (he knew I previously worked those hours) before he said, “Sure. Family comes first.” I’m feeling really grateful and excited to have a work/life balance again and grateful to my boss as that is not generally the culture here to have part-time assistants. I was nervous to ask, but if you don’t ask, you don’t get! So if you’ve been wanting to ask for something, go for it.

  109. Red*

    Just a victory post. I left my dead-end office job on the last working day of the 2015 calendar year. I took January off as my first actual vacation since, um, finally getting employed after competing grad school in 2011. After fighting with myself for a couple months, I got evaluated for adult ADHD and started treating that and some underlying anxiety problems that I found I couldn’t manage on my own anymore after leaving a structured office environment. (And man, I tried so hard, used every tool and trick I could, and decided that I needed outside help. It’s been worth it.) As of yesterday, I’m sitting on 4 self-published books, have another out on submission to a publisher, have two out in various stages of the post-writing production cycle, have one complete rough draft waiting for revision, have a WIP rough draft, and a few side story novellas that I’ll be preparing for publication soon, too. My networking efforts are bearing fruit, I’ve made some cool new friends, avoided drama, and learned more about marketing than I ever expected to know. I also signed on to an author co-op, so I’m working on getting my next series’ branding to standard. AAM has been a really awesome resource for me in my journey from grad student to temp to employee to own boss, and so has the stellar community. I don’t comment very often, but I read daily and recommend this place as a fantastic resource to friends and family.

      1. Red*

        Thank you! It’s been a really good experience. (I didn’t mention it, but I’ve also lost a lot of weight, and my back problems, which stemmed from having a real bad chair at OldJob that no one would authorize a replacement for, are slowly improving! I get way more exercise time now, too. I’m so happy I could cry.)

        1. C Average*

          Thanks! Up until I got married, my initials were CCC, and I’m kinda average at a lot of things, so it just seemed to fit. I have a graduation card on my desk that has George W. Bush wearing a graduation robe, and there’s a speech balloon that says, “And to the C students I say that you, too, can be president of the United States!”

          The avatar is completely unrelated; he’s the guy from the “Code Monkey” video.

          This is probably going to sound crazy, but based on your screen name and some of your posts, I think I might actually know you in real life. You don’t happen to be in the Pacific northwest, do you?

          1. Red*

            Ooooh I missed this for a few days, so I hope you see it… Alas, I am not, I’m in New England. I’m glad to know that I might be someone’s doppelganger, though!

    3. Red*

      Oh, and heck… If there are any fellow romance and sf/f writers in the readership, I’d love to chat sometime. :]

          1. Fact & Fiction*

            Nice! I’ll try to remember to check! I’m published in the urban fantasy realm with strong romance elements. Read mostly SFF and romance.

  110. AP*

    The question this morning about keeping study abroad on your resume got me thinking. I’m five years out of college and haven’t updated my resume lately, but should I devote space to Phi Beta Kappa? It’s on there, but it takes up a line of real estate, so is it worth keeping? Thanks!

    1. Graciosa*

      Eh – I probably wouldn’t if it was a separate line, but might if it’s all on one line covering your education.

      “B.A. Chocolate Making, Cocoa College, Summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa”

      The real key is whether it’s worth keeping in comparison to other things you could include, so not really a final answer – just something to think about.

    3. Honeybee*

      When I was in academia, graduating Phi Beta Kappa is something that you’d keep on your CV forever. But that’s because universities need a certain percentage of their faculty to be Phi Beta Kappa in order to maintain their chapter, apparently.

      You could probably take it off, but I agree with Graciosa that if you keep it you can append it to your BA line.

  111. Tagg*

    Ugh, we have a bad case of Coworker Busybody in my office right now. Said Busybody has taken it upon themselves to monitor everyone’s arrival time – including the physicians! (for context, this person is FAR below a physician on the healthcare hierarchy)
    They are also making it hard for me to do my job. For example, I was clocked out for lunch today, and this person completely (and, might I add, illegally) circumvented my job. They are a technician, I am a registration person. They took a patient back (a half an hour before their appointment time!) without them having been registered first.
    At any perceived fault this person sees, they will immediately email their supervisors and complain about the “problem.” They also tend to make super passive aggressive comments to people. As in, I have a lot of downtime in between patients at my job, and my supervisor is fine with me killing time on my phone or something. Busybody will walk by and say, “Oh, playing a game, that must be nice.” Stuff like that.
    UGH it’s driving me, the nurses, and the physician off the wall. Our location has a very laid back, casual, and fun atmosphere, except when this individual is around (each week they rotate between different technicians, thankfully).
    *sigh*

    1. ASJ*

      Oh wow, I think that would drive anyone insane. Where is this person’s manager? At the very least, they need to be talked to about taking a patient back without having them registered first.

  112. Brooke*

    Help! Need advice!

    Last week, I was talking with an HR rep from a company via LinkedIn. She told me to give her a call on Friday (today) to see if there would be a fit for me at the company. I responded and said that sounded great, and asked if there was a time that worked best, and what’s the best number to reach her at.

    That was last Friday. I haven’t heard anything back. I figured with the long weekend, maybe she took a couple of extra days of vacation. I followed up again Wednesday to suggest a time, and still no response.

    I don’t know what to do! Today is the day she originally asked me to call her. Should I assume she changed her mind and move on? Or should I assume she didn’t get my message? I know sometimes people don’t see LinkedIn messages if they don’t have notifications set up. I could call the company, ask for her, and see how it goes? I feel like it would be super awkward if she was avoiding me if I called the office though!

    Help, please!

    1. ASJ*

      I would take her at her word – assume she’s been busy and that she hasn’t seen the LinkedIn messages and call the company. I think you feeling awkward is your jerkbrain kicking in. If you do call the company and can’t get a hold of her, leave a message and then move on.

    2. Tex*

      Call the main company number/switchboard and ask to be connected to her. She invited you to call, if she feels that is pushy or aggressive than so be it. You were only acting on her invitation. But do not call/contact her again via any means after that. Ball is in her court.

  113. zora.dee*

    Welllll, I spoke too soon last week when I said my health thing was almost sorted. Had a major relapse and spent the whole last 7 days in and out of the ER and couldn’t work all week, which was supposed to be my first week as an official employee of the new company! (backstory: temp to perm, was brought on permanent starting this month)

    Things are looking better today, but the not great news is that I can’t get the final surgery I need to solve the problem until mid-Oct at least. And my insurance kicks over from my current HMO insurance to my employers HDP insurance on Oct 1. I reeaalllllyyyyy don’t want to figure out changing doctors in the middle of this whole thing.

    Do I have ANY options for keeping my current insurer for one more month, even though I am switching from one employer to another? I don’t think I can buy an ACA plan if my employer offers insurance. Can I call the insurer and ask if I can buy one more month individually? Will that be crazy expensive? (more backstory: also got a paycut, so that’s fun.) Any ideas anyone has for how I might be able to keep my current insurance, or who I would ask what questions would be really helpful. In US, state: CA. I am planning to ask the HR person at the new company if I have any options here, but I thought there might be other angles I’m not thinking of. TIA!

    1. lfi*

      do you have a cobra option? you will be responsible for paying the entire premium but it might be able to keep you afloat for one month.

      the only other thing to consider though is what your enrollment window is like at your new employer’s insurance. it might be a qualifying life event if you were to take cobra and then drop it, but i’d just ask the HR person about that.

      1. zora.dee*

        that’s a good one, I will definitely ask, about both Cobra and the enrollment window. Thank you! I knew there were things I wasn’t thinking of.

    3. zora.dee*

      Ok, I shouldn’t be too down on this new job/company, they did just send me a beautiful Get Well flower arrangement at my house. I have literally never had an employer do that before in my life, so there are some nice things about this place.

  114. Orange Teapots*

    I am interviewing to work for A Teapot Company in Teapot Marketing. My background is in marketing and I’m really excited about the role.

    Long term, I see myself being a Teapot Developer. In the teapot industry, there is no clear pathway, no degree, and no entry-level Teapot Developer job. People who have become Teapot Developers end up with it in a variety of ways, usually after working at a teapot company for awhile in some other department.

    If they ask me in the interview where I see myself in 5-10 years, should I mention that I want to be a Teapot Developer?

    Or would it be better not to mention it and focus more on the obvious career path from a marketing job, as to not seem unfocused or uninterested in the marketing job?

  115. Dave*

    Hooray, another interview! It’s a week from Monday. They’re giving me time to complete a case study that I will have to present as part of the interview. Has anybody done such a thing before? This is the first interview with this organization (a huge, massive, multinational corporation) and I am a bit surprised they want the homework up front.

    I’m also going to a networking thing early next week and the manager for the job I interviewed for last week will likely be there, as well as a couple other people with that org. As far as I know I am still in the running (they said they’d be in touch in a couple of weeks). Just hoping that won’t be awkward.

  116. Anon Esq*

    So I fall into the lawyer who probably shouldn’t have gone to law school category. I really want to be working in health policy or public health. Before law school, I worked in community relations and HR at a hospital (in addition to a later non-health care job). During law school, I completed a concentration in health law (including taking classes that were cross listed with the public health program and doing some substantial published research); externed at a disability law organization and in the general counsel’s office for a health care system; was on the planning committee for a public health conference; and worked as a research assistant for a law/public health program. After graduating, I worked as a contractor at a government agency that deals with health care issues but was unfortunately laid off after about 8 months due to unforeseen restructuring. Since then (over a year at this point), I have had trouble finding full time work and have basically strung together contract work while volunteering with the general counsel’s office at a hospital. I’ve done well in most of the health policy interviews I’ve had, but haven’t gotten any offers (along with pretty much all of the other interviews I’ve had :/). I never get calls for the program positions I apply for. Do I need to go back to school to get an MPH to be more competitive for these positions? I feel like I’m fairly well situation, but now I’m starting to feel like I’m wrong. Thanks for your help.

    1. Graciosa*

      I wouldn’t, as it sounds like a way to rack up more debt (or at least cost) while keeping you out of the work force for a while (fewer opportunities or potential achievements) with minimal benefit. If you’re getting interviews, then you know companies look at your resume and decide you have acceptable basic qualifications.

      But I don’t really know this field, so I’ll default back to my suggestion to check on LinkedIn. Look at the educational background of people who have the jobs you want and see how it lines up. Do people in those jobs *who have law degrees* also have Masters of Public Health (if they don’t have a J.D., it doesn’t tell you whether an MPH is required because the position may just need a graduate degree). Your area may be niche enough not to give you a lot of data, but it may be worth a look.

    2. neverjaunty*

      First, good on you for transitioning out of law if you’re not enjoying it as a career.

      Maybe that’s something that you could put forward in cover letters and at interviews – pointing out your background in health policy/public health so there is a pretty clear reason that you’re shifting fields. Can you do informational interviews at the hospital with people who hold the kind of jobs you’re interested in? Since you’re a volunteer rather than an employee it shouldn’t raise any red flags for the GC.

    3. vpc*

      Most of the folks I know that are active in public health law have a JD but not an MPH. Health policy and law in a healthcare setting may be a completely different animal, but I don’t know that side of the field. You could be not getting callbacks for program positions because you’re seen as “overqualified”, depending on the types of positions you are looking at – they may be weeding you out based on what they perceive your salary expectations will be.

      Have you looked into professional associations? I believe the American Public Health Association has a law section (and you don’t have to have a public health credential to become a member), or there may even be a public health law association out there?

    4. Pineapple Incident*

      I would look into the network for public health law- they may have some resources there for someone like you!

  117. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Y’all, I am currently on a plane and have AAM pulled up on my laptop, and someone across the aisle from me was coming back to their seat, saw it, and said, “Oh, I love that website.”

    I said, “I like it too!” because I was flustered.

    7. NarrowDoorways*

      This is every person’s dream! Congrats. You should’ve fessed up. She could’ve gotten your autograph.

    13. Gandalf the Nude*

      I had something similar happen to me once, except I wasn’t the creator, so it got really awkward when I answered, “Oh, uh, thanks!”

    14. Ultraviolet*

      You should hold a cup up to your face like in your avatar and keep glancing over at this person to see if they recognize you.

    18. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

      A totally unsolicited and unknowing compliment is such an good thing. Enjoy it.

  118. Calacademic*

    Are you supposed to send a thank you note after a phone interview? And, if I (phone) interviewed on Wednesday is it too late?

    2. Charlotte Collins*

      I generally do, but often as more of a follow-up. However, I would say to send one if it was an especially long interview and more intensive than the general HR screening. (For example, I’ve had a couple that were from a person who was doing the same job that I was interviewing for. Since this was clearly outside of their regular tasks – they were neither HR nor the hiring manager, I thanked them for taking the time to talk to me about the position.)

    3. JLK*

      I send a follow-up email thanking them for their time. If I remember a specific topic or something I might not have emphasized enough, I might re-iterate that.

      If it’s with HR, then a quick thanks. If it’s with a department figure, then a bit more would be ok, too. At least you can say you were the polite and professional person, should you never hear back from them.

      Send it today, to close out the week.

    4. Chaordic One*

      If you have an email address, then send a thank you email. I wouldn’t bother with a written thank you note.

  119. NarrowDoorways*

    Bahahahahahaah! I hope this is funny to more than just me (though it may be a “had to be there” moment).

    Group email chain started about a new process to create a page in a publication produced by the company I work for. I’m the lead editor and the email chain included the entire design team and some data contributors. Mymost recent email asked for a meeting next week to more clearly discuss who had what responsibilities.

    I was expecting some time suggestions in the reply. A marketer, who sits near me in our open office floor plan, said out loud, “I can meeting whenever.” I laughed and said he should actually write that. Turns out, he was quoting… The lowest production person in the chain replied back LITERALLY JUST SAYING THAT. That was the whole email. No address, no signature, just an odd, broken sentence. When I realized, we all started laughing, but the laughing where it kind of hurts and no one can stop. She came over, trying to explain she had typed too fast.

    As we kept laughing, I was able to mutter, “I wonder if her boss had the same reaction to that email!” #doubtit

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      Oh, it was fine. Every single person, including her boss, has replied, “I can meeting” in some form.

    2. Murphy*

      Haha! That is funny. Well it was truthful (presumably), to the point, and you all know what she meant.

    3. Milo Devenus*

      Probably a little bit of had to be there for me, lol.

      But I sometimes turn words into verbs that aren’t, just for fun. So I just read it as that.

  120. Punkin*

    For you HR pros out there – is it normal to NOT contact those who have interviewed for a position but not been chosen for the position?

    I am in higher ed. Our institution is undergoing many changes under new management. A new position of teapot coordinator was created. All of the teapot clerks were told that teapot clerk would no longer be a position and that if they wanted to continue working in that department, they should apply for the 12 new teapot coordinator positions (which will have more responsibilities than the clerks). Teapot clerks would not be employed past September 15.

    Management sent out an email to entire school last week, congratulating (and naming) the 7 new teapot coordinators. That is how internal candidates who interviewed and were not chosen ( ~ 20 people) for the position were notified. Some who did not make the cut were in tears, as they had effectively just been given their 2 week notice from the school. Some took personal items and were given permission to leave early. Some people saw the new teapot coordinators as “taking a job away from” longer tenured clerks who were not hired. Uncomfortable all the way around.

    I know that not everyone can get the position, but shouldn’t there be a protocol to notify those who were not chosen? I guess I should not be surprised – I think they do not notify external candidates either. It would not take a lot to bcc: an email to those not hired “thank you for your interest…we have moved on with another candidate…” .

    There are still 5 positions that need to be filled. It seems that they are hiring the rest externally.

    HR pros – is it standard to notify interviewees who have not made the cut?

    Everyone else – have you ever NOT been notified that the employer would not be continuing with you as a candidate?

    1. Murphy*

      “Everyone else – have you ever NOT been notified that the employer would not be continuing with you as a candidate?”

      Yes, and I thought it was rude as hell.

      I was an external candidate, had a pretty good interview on a Friday, and I think they said I would hear something the following week. I sent a thank you email on Monday, can’t remember if I got a response or not. The rest of the week goes by (or whatever the time period was where they said I would hear something). I waited an extra few days and then sent a quick email, just asking where they were in the process. Nothing. I waited another week or two, and left a voicemail, and never got any response. Grates me to this day. My personal feeling is that if you interview someone, you owe them a “thanks, but no thanks.”

      1. Murphy*

        (I want to say yes, I did get a standard response to the thank you email. I know you don’t care about that level of detail, but it’s bothering me, haha.)

      2. JLK*

        AMEN! “My personal feeling is that if you interview someone, you owe them a “thanks, but no thanks.”

        I’ve kept a tracker of my applications and here’s the stats. Of 16, applications:
        47% gave a final response; 20% I had to ask for a final response and received one; 27% gave no response ever despite repeated attempts, 7% I opted out of the process.

        A current outstanding application is 30-days ‘past due’ without communiques despite my sending two emails (at two week intervals) AND this is with a non-profit organization with home I’ve worked with for three years (seasonal position) and currently volunteer for.

      3. Rob Lowe can't read*

        My current employer actually did this to me. I had interviewed (phone screen + in-person interview + skills test) for Job A, expected notification date passed, sent a polite email asking when they might have a status update a week later, and never got a response.

        When they called 6 weeks later (an eternity in my field) to offer me Job B [my current job, which I do think is actually a better fit for me than the one they originally wanted me for], the hiring manager started the voicemail by saying, “So as you might have guessed, we filled Job A…” Yeah, I had guessed something to that effect. (I actually didn’t answer the phone when I saw it was her number – I assumed it was a misdial and wished to save us both the embarrassment!)

        I like my job and am glad I took it, but in my head I do maintain that they were wrong to not reach out to me with a yes or no about Job A.

    2. NW Mossy*

      I’ve interviewed internally at my current org at least 5 times over the last 7 years, and every time the hiring manager met with me personally to tell me the results, positive or negative. The formal announcement of who did get it does not get released until all the candidates have their meeting. It’s a major jerk move to indirectly notify unsuccessful candidates by the “good job, not you!” email. It’s a bit different with external candidates in my experience, but in the scenario you describe, boo hiss to your org.

    4. Bad Candidate*

      Everyone else – have you ever NOT been notified that the employer would not be continuing with you as a candidate?

      This isn’t SOP? Yes, many times. I had an interview a month ago. Nothing since, pretty sure I didn’t get it. I’ve had two jobs where I had to travel 500 miles on my own dime for the interview and never heard back. Several others too. It’s rude and it’s annoying, but there’s not much I can do about it, is there? What am I just not going to ever apply there again? Obviously they don’t care. And I probably would if something comes up, given that I don’t have many options, really.

    5. LQ*

      It is one thing to not send something to external candidates. But not not say something directly and personally to internal candidates for whom it means they will NO LONGER BE EMPLOYED? That’s a level of cold and cruel that is really horrible. And an org wide email is how they find out? That’s really a bad way to treat employees if you want to keep the best of the best around.

      1. Punkin*

        I know. I felt so bad for them. Basically told “you are so bad (even with years of familiarity with our clunky & hard to learn ERP software), we have to go to outside candidates” – I might have cried as well.

        Thank you all for your replies.

    6. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

      Unfortunately all levels of education are really rude in not sending notifications.

  121. Lemon Zinger*

    I was required to go in for jury duty today. I work for a state university so all jury duty time is fully paid. Well… I wasn’t selected and got released at 9:30 a.m.! Buuuuuut my timesheet has already been submitted so I have a surprise day off work. I’m catching up on TV shows, AAM (of course), and spending quality time with my dog. :)

    Happy Friday, all!

  122. LadyKelvin*

    So I totally rocked my (phone) interveiw on Wednesday. It was my first interview that I’m excited about the job and I felt went really well. We’ll see what they think. However, it would involve a long-distance move (DC to Honolulu) which I am super excited/scared about, and what I am most scared about is that my husband (who is totally on board with the potential move) will need to find a job. So I am wondering if there is anyone here from Hawaii or has lived on Hawaii who can give me an idea if it is realistic for my husband to expect to find a job. He is a PhD Chemist with a background in clean energy, gas storage, battery technology and is currently a project management consultant for major government contractor at the DOE. He has some contacts within his company out there where there might be a job working on a navy contract, although he said that project is probably not going to be refunded, and he knows the CEO of a green non-profit that his agency works with sometimes that might have a job or job leads. But I want some outside opinions. What are his chances? We might survive on just my salary out there, but that would be a 50% or more pay cut compared to what we make now. Doable but not ideal.

    1. LH*

      I’m not from Hawaii but I know they have a big government push to achieve 100% clean energy by 2045 so it seems like the opportunities are out there for him. Maybe he can also take a look at the University of Hawaii’s natural energy institute or the Hawaii state energy office?

      If you receive the offer and you’re both on board with the move, you should go for it! You can always come back if Honolulu turns out to be a bust. Just keep in mind that the cost of living is quite high there since everything is imported.

      Sending good job hunt vibes your way!

    1. Pwyll*

      There are probably a ton of things that contributed to this issue, but the one I hear the most on these articles are Wells Fargo’s entirely out of touch sales goals. As in, employees weren’t just doing this to get bonuses, but could have been fired for not opening enough checking accounts and credit cards in a month. Which is why we get annoying things like bank tellers asking whether you have a credit card every. time. you. deposit. Aside from walking around the mall asking people if they’ve banked with Wells Fargo today, I’m not entirely sure what WF expected to happen.

      When a company makes it impossible to succeed, and provides little other oversight or accountability, people will do whatever they can to meet the baseline.

    3. dear liza dear liza*

      I have a friend who worked for the bank inside Walmarts. Every month or so, the regional head would come by and yell at everyone in the branch that if they didn’t meet the account quota, their branch would be shut down. It mattered not at all that this was a rural area with a fairly small population; if they met the quota, it would mean within 6 months, everyone in a 20-mile radius would have to have opened an account. Since the bank had been around a couple years already and pretty much gotten the low hanging (and medium hanging) fruit, the quota for new accounts was even more unreasonable. They were also strongly “encouraged” to seek out people in Walmart who had such terrible credit that they couldn’t open an account elsewhere, and it was implied that the workers could kind of turn a blind eye to some details in order to get these accounts okayed. Shades of NINJA mortgages, people?

      I snobbishly assumed that this shady business was it being a “Walmart” bank. I’m super depressed that it seems to be SOP for banks.

  124. Larina*

    When I spoke to my manager about how our company is going to handle the new overtime law, he mentioned that there was language in the new law regarding independent contractors (which is the main reason why my company hasn’t yet figured out how to handle the change). I haven’t been able to find any language about independent contractors in my search. Have I missed something? Do any of you know what he meant? I’m not a contractor, but I work in a department where much of the work is done by contractors, and I’m curious about how this might change things. (I’d ask my manager, but he was very purposefully vague about it when I asked initially).

    1. neverjaunty*

      I’d ask him (with a polite, curious tone rather than “oh yeah buddy?”) where that is in the new law.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      There’s nothing in the new overtime rule about independent contractors. It’s actually not a new law at all — it’s just an update to part of the FLSA (the salary threshold for being exempt). The FLSA only covers employees, not independent contractors, so one has nothing to do with the other. Your contractors won’t be impacted (assuming they’re truly independent contractors — meaning you pay them via 1099, and they’re not W2 workers employed by an agency).

      1. Larina*

        That’s what I thought! I’ve been trying to figure out why he brought up the contractors. He said something about the type of work our contractors do, so it is possible that my company is finally realizing that most of our 1099 contractors should actually be treated as employees.

        Thanks Allison!

  125. Now_Hiring*

    I work for a university and periodically hire students. The jobs I hire for are sought after because they pay well, last a long time, and look good on a resume. They require a pretty demanding academic background which is straight-forward to screen for, but after that it’s a little harder, because students typically have a pretty small employment record. So I would happily hear from commenters about what they feel are minor errors in applications and interviews and what they feel are red flags when hiring from this pool. I see a lot of diamonds-in-the-rough and hate to put too much (or too little) emphasis on little mistakes I see. Any thoughts?

    1. Sophia Brooks*

      What I screen for in students is their ability to follow the application instructions without calling to ask about them- so when the directions say to email a resume, for example, they don’t email me and ask if I would like their resume. If they can’t read and understand directions as simple as the application directions, I know they will be asking me 500 questions a day that they could probably figure out for themselves if they thought about it. On the other hand, I don’t find typos to be a big deal.

    2. self employed*

      Would a requirement for a cover letter (or a response to a few questions) help? Doing so might help screen for attention to detail as well as to get a feel for personality. If they don’t have a lot of work experience, you could ask for examples of success/hard work in school projects, etc.

      1. Now_Hiring*

        Yes, we do require a cover letter. And yes, we ask about school or volunteer work and that can definitely be informative. ” I guess I’m trying to find better ways to know whether someone is well-meaning but inexperienced, or more profoundly clueless. In the latter category I would put things like asking if they need a work schedule or can just come in any time, or asking how the job will benefit them…. there my instinct is to stand up and show them the door and/or to say “It’s a Job! It gives you money when you do work! ” I’ve found I can manage an inexperienced worker into an experienced one, but I can’t manage an unmotivated worker into being a hard worker, and I’m hoping to hone my ability to tell the difference at the hiring stage.

    3. ASJ*

      To me, the most important thing when hiring a student is a) enthusiasm and b) willingness to learn. Some behavioural-type questions may help you better screen for this. Or, depending on the work you do, could you set up a scenario of some kind where they have to read/implement instructions?

  126. Anon Accountant*

    Ok so I thought my resume had “don’t hire” written all over it. This afternoon 2 people call me to talk for short phone interviews. I’m covering front desk while our secretary is taking another hour and a half lunch breaks.

    What great timing. They said they’d call Monday morning and afternoon respectively so keep your fingers crossed for me! Ugh

    3. Snazzy Hat*

      {crosses fingers and toes} {waves pom-poms} Man it is awkward to hold these with crossed fingers. Good luck!

  127. Milo Devenus*

    With all the discussion here about how negatively certain for-profit institutions can affect your resume/carreer and on social media regarding the closure of ITT Tech, I was pondering some things.

    With people who completed a course of study at ITT tech who couldn’t be convinced before to take it off of their resume because it was or could be hurting their job prospects, do we think it is EVEN WORSE now that the school has been forced to close due to their terrible practices and targeting of a certain demo?

    I personally think it is even worse now to keep this school on your resume, not only because it wasn’t favorable to begin with but with so much negative press now and it being centered in a lot of conversations it will probably create an even more unfavorable reaction from someone in a hiring capacity to see it.

    Students who were currently enrolled will be able to discharge their loans if they don’t re-enroll in a similar course of study too soon, which is good news for them as far as finances are concerned (not for their time wasted of course) but students who have completed a program there in the past are still saddled with enormous debt and a hard job market (made harder by this on their resume imho)

    Any thoughts?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      We have been talking about this issue in my graduate course. It is so heartbreaking, but I really think ITT Tech shouldn’t be on resumes. My father got his MBA from the University of Phoenix and doesn’t list it anymore. :/

    2. Temperance*

      A friend of mine went there and taught there. She went through a program that isn’t taught at 4-year institutions, and she loved it. It’s on her resume, and it’s how she got a job at a very prestigious org. She believed in her program, and FWIW, she’s not competing with traditional grads for jobs. Her program is tech school only.

      I don’t know how I feel about discharging debt. I personally think it should be an all or nothing proposition – why should this group of people get off scot-free while others with loans can’t? I have a heavy loan burden, FWIW, so I’m really not okay letting some people off unless there is relief for all.

      1. CMT*

        But were you duped into going to a program that was essentially worthless? This idea of “If I can’t have something, nobody should” is so strange to me.

        1. Temperance*

          I have a BA in English. So … kind of? There are so many people who did everything “right” and are still struggling that I can’t support loan forgiveness for for-profit students unless there is AT LEAST an interest reduction for non-profit students.

          1. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

            I half-heartedly joke about this with teachers who cannot get a teaching job because of the number of new teachers churned out each year.

      2. TotesMaGoats*

        I’d love to know what program she did that wasn’t available at any other accredited institution.

        1. STX*

          My impression is that they started out as a well-regarded vocational-school option but over the past decade or so their reputation has disintegrated. They were in very serious danger of losing their accreditation and are facing lawsuits from various federal oversight organizations.

          2. Anon0909*

            They only ever had “national accreditation” anyway, from some sketchy board. They weren’t regionally accredited and as such their credits couldn’t transfer to any other schools or programs of study aside from a few other sketchy for-profits that operate under a similar MO.

            I am personally thrilled they are shut down, but I wonder since they are closing, if that will prevent any types of other lawsuits/class-action suits from every coming to fruition against them.

        2. Temperance*

          She’s a CAD drawer (not sure if that’s the correct pluralization). She went to ITT 15+ years ago, when it was still well-regarded for that program. She currently works at a fairly prestigious military contractor.

    3. Pwyll*

      Maybe I’m completely mistaken but I’ve never compared ITT Tech to for-profit degree awarding institutions. I always thought they were pretty good about training people to be machinists and engine techs and such.

      1. Anon0909*

        They had several other programs – including one my cousin completed – a “criminal justice” BS degree. Her debt for this program is over $90k. The school was never regionally accredited. She hasn’t made over $12.hr nor has she been hired for anything more than entry level hs diploma only needed roles since and she honestly didn’t learn anything she can apply in the types of jobs that are available. She will never be able to afford her debt. She may be lucky enough to have it forgiven if she can maintain employment for 10 years in a human services field and make 120 on time payments in that time period without missing 1.

        They also offered subpar graphic designer programs, a nursing program, and things of that sort.

    4. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

      My very local, public university has announced they are setting up an office for any ITT students who want to transfer. They will evaluate courses, knowledge, and give credit where they can. They can transfer to the university and they finish their degrees.

  128. Master Bean Counter*

    Heard in my office today:
    “You all have it so good, we used to work until 2:30 am to get our work done this time of year. Quit complaining, be problem solvers.”

    1. ASJ*

      That’s about as helpful as “in my day, we used to walk uphill both ways. In waist-high snow.” Like, good for you, but that doesn’t negate the fact that maybe the situation is still a problem?

      1. Ange*

        Ugh, I used to have coworkers like that. They would keep saying things like “we used to work 24 hour shifts” and I’d be thinking “I bet the last 8 hours of your shift was not very good work”. It didn’t help that they were senior/managers and we were having discussions about going to shifts rather than overtime as we had at the time. There was a strong flavour of “you don’t know how good you have it” going on there.

        1. Snazzy Hat*

          my question to these folks: “Wow! Got any tips for staying awake after working that long, or is it just good old-fashioned delirium?”

  129. Written Interview Question*

    So I applied for a position online today. I just received an invitation for a written interview. I’m kind of confused. Does it have to be handwritten? It says “…first step in interview process is to complete a written interview. Once I receive Word document back from you, I will be in touch.”
    The position is – Payroll Customer Service Rep. There are about a dozen questions on availability and relevant experience. I was just going to type in my answers but I’m not sure if they want a handwriting sample?? Any thoughts? Thanks!!!

    1. Pwyll*

      They want you to type in the answers into a Word document. :) I can’t imagine how a handwriting sample could be helpful or necessary.

  130. Underpaid Hardworker*

    So I’m a middle manager at a non-profit, this is my 2nd full time job out of graduate school and I’ve been here for 5 months. I supervise 2 staff and just found out that I make less money than one of the staff members that I supervise. Since I’ve been here, I’ve been having issues with this staff member, for his performance, his work ethic, and other deeply concerning things in the way that he works with our program members.

    As a supervisor, I feel that I should at least make more money than the person that I supervise, especially since much of my job has been cleaning up his messes. For more clarity, his role is not one that requires technical skill… and he’s a “counselor” but doesn’t have any degrees that enhances his job….. his “counseling skills” are subpar at best.

    How do I approach this? For the past 5 months, I have been working extremely hard rebuilding this program and making it better than it has been. I have come up with a few substantive changes in our program structure.

    A caveat is that the woman who hired me recently transitioned out of the role so we have a new director who also directs another program at this site and recently added my program to her portfolio. I have a 6 month review next month, should I revisit salary? If so, what sort of evidence should I bring that would justify this?

    Note: When I accepted the salary, it was because it was a 10k increase from my previous salary, but as someone who is now raising a son, I find this salary as being almost unlivable and have been looking at acquiring a second job which I do not want as a new mom, but financially it makes most sense.

    1. ASJ*

      Personally, I would let the fact that he makes more money than you do go. It has no bearing on your salary, however unfair it may be, and it is not something you should be bringing in as evidence – in fact, continue as though you don’t know this fact.

      I’m not sure how common it is to get a raise at 6 months – I think a year is more the benchmark. But if you do decide to advocate for a raise, focus on the changes you’ve made and what you’ve done that improved the program. I wouldn’t mention your son or the possibility of a second job either; to the company, all that matters is what you’ve done for them.

    2. The IT Manager*

      I agree with ASJ. Reasons you should get a raise (especially after only 6 months) do NOT include: someone I supervise makes more than me or I can’t live on this salary.

      Reasons you should get a raise: You’re paid below market value. You’re doing great work and adding value. You’re underpaid, and they’ll lose you if you don’t.

      Basically anyone is hard-pressed to justify a raise after 6 months because 6 month ago you thought this salary was fine, and you’re presumably still learning the ropes. A year is a much more normal timeframe to ask for the first raise.

    3. Punkin*

      Supervisors making more than their direct reports is common in tech. The salary is not the issue.

      The issue is the problem employee. He needs feedback.

      Completely separate issue is your budget changes. Examine that separately. You may need to look for another job or work a second job for a while.

    4. Chris*

      I agree with the other comments – there are two separate issues here. Your personal compensation can only be addressed between you and your manager / supervisor.

      Your team member’s skill set / performance is an issue. First, you need to identify to them that there are shortcomings that you expect to improve. If you have control / input into their salary, you may want to mention that future reviews will not result in an increase until the skills come up to your expectations.

      You may wish to quietly do some background checks on your own understanding of compensation / salary for the skill sets in question, to see whether the person is being paid low / average / high with respect to competitive marketplace standards. Once you have a good feeling / real data to compare it to, you also know what you would have to pay someone else to replace this person, should they not be capable of meeting standards. Since you’re new in the role, taking actions that could result in someone leaving may concern your own supervisor – you should do your homework and have a solid understanding of the worst case outcome.

  131. kylo ren*

    I cry embarrasingly easily — if I see a cute dog in a commercial, I will cry. Yesterday two coworkers burst into my office yelling at me over something not worthy of that level of irritation. I got so upset that I was just a mess for a few hours afterwords. They apologized, and were very upset that they acted so poorly, so that’s great! We’re all on good terms.

    Any advice for toughening up in the workplace? I am young and new to professional life. Next year I will be going to law school (yes, I am sure that it’s exactly what I want to do), so I really don’t want to be known as someone who cries easily.

    1. Manders*

      I’m also a hair trigger crier. If I know a meeting’s going to be tough, I bring a notebook and write in it so I have something to do with my hands and a socially acceptable reason to look away from the yeller. Then afterwards, I go to the bathroom and hold a cold, wet paper towel on my eyes and nose so they won’t swell or get too obviously red.

      But yeah, I could also use some advice on how to keep my cool when people blindside me with yelling. I hate, hate, hate yelling in the workplace.

      1. JKP*

        I ended up working for a yeller once, mostly because I was the only one who could tolerate him and all the other women who did work for him always left his office sobbing. Eventually the CEO asked if I would be solely responsible for all his work, because no one else wanted to do it.

        What worked for me was my college work experience as a nanny. I pictured him like a big 2-year toddler throwing a tantrum. I calmly waited for him to finish yelling, totally unfazed, and then when he was done I would paraphrase what he was asking for: “So you want me to reformat this 11 pt font instead of 12 pt font so it fits on one page? Ok, I can have that for you in about 15 min. Were there any other changes?”

        Within about a month of me not reacting to his yelling, he actually stopped and would just calmly ask me for the changes he wanted and an ETA for when they would be done.

    2. ASJ*

      I cry easily too, particularly when I get upset or angry. It’s very frustrating. I usually try to stay quiet, but sometimes that’s not feasible. My last meeting where I was very upset, I was able to stay quiet and drank water from my water bottle to keep from crying. Then afterwards, I took a short walk to collect myself. I read somewhere – I think on here – that twitching the muscles in your legs can also serve as a distraction. YMMV.

    3. Amber Rose*

      Meditation comes in handy here! I’m not saying stop, drop and meditate in an emergency, but deep breathing and visualization techniques have massively helped me.

      If you breathe in through your nose and slowly out through your mouth, and count to ten, that is a good start towards control. Nothing anyone is yelling at you is worth listening to. Count breaths and wait for them to back off, then ask for non-yelling explanation of the problem.

      1. kylo ren*

        Ooh, this is good. Thank you! I’ve been meaning to incorporate more yoga/meditation into my mornings, but I am lazy and sleep til the last minute. I will certainly give this a shot next time someone comes into my office guns ablazing.

    4. Temperance*

      Can I call you Crylo Ren for this comment? Mostly as a joke.

      Define what you mean by “a mess”. If you mean feeling awkward, that’s one thing, but actively weeping for hours is not great. I cried at work in front of my boss exactly once, because I received an email that said that a dear friend had died. It was shocking and very upsetting.

      I’m an attorney. If you can’t toughen up, you’re going to have a really hard time in law school. It drove many of us to the brink.

      1. kylo ren*

        Crylo Ren is amazing and I love it.

        90% of my job is working with incredibly difficult clients in an organization with dysfunctional management, so thankfully I can handle most tough situations. What I can’t handle, yet, is when people come in screaming out of nowhere, which is what happened yesterday. I cried a bit, seeking escape in the bathroom, but I was very flustered for a while afterwards. My wonderful coworkers inadvertantly made it worse — they brought me food and asked, “is everything okay?” which just made those emotions well up again.

        I agree, if I can’t get it together now I will get eaten alive in school and in a future legal job.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Deep breaths. Also, someone told me to press my big toe down REALLY hard in my shoe. I tried it when I was talking about my recently deceased kitty to someone I didn’t want to cry in front of, and it worked. YMMV though.

    6. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

      As another world’s easiest crier it’s embarrassing. The staff and I laugh because I tear up when talking about a movie, book, etc. I hate that I cry when I get angry. Know that you’re not alone.

  132. YRH*

    What would be the best way to list three short term positions at different companies with different titles in one listing on a resume? In the past year, I’ve done contract work at Company A, worked as an in-house temp at Company B, and volunteered several days a week with Company C (which looks good in the industry that I’m in). Right now, to keep it structured the same way as the rest of my resume, I have it listed as Company A/Company B/Company C and then Title/Title/Tile below it, but I think this looks terrible. Any ideas?

  133. Clea*

    Yay, open thread! I was afraid I’d missed it as signal is sporadic in my rural ‘off grid’ holiday spot. This is my first ‘proper’ post – I’ve been reading AAM for about a year (often, then daily, then multiple times a day, then trawling all the archives etc).

    I’m starting my first professional job on Monday and I’d love some advice on office norms/ adjusting to the professional setting up as a new grad – there’s some super helpful stuff in the archives but, in particular,

    A) How do you recalibrate your mindset vis Alison’s productivity advice that, for managers, good enough beats perfect? I’ve already had a week’s taster in this role for scheduling reasons and I tended (as usual) towards perfectionism – taking work in the evenings (I’m exempt) so I could meet my own standards and reduce the appearance of a steep learning curve. I doubt this is sustainable full time. How do you know when it is ‘good enough’ if you’re always learning?

    B) Can anyone recommend any good dictating/ transcribing (voice to words) software? I think it’d help me get these reports out more quickly.

    1. ASJ*

      I think part of it is taking your cue from your coworkers. “Good enough” will have a different definition no matter where you go, and that’s nothing something that anyone outside of your company can define for you. Also, keep in mind that a steep learning curve with some jobs (especially for a new grad) is extremely common. Beyond that, a job where you’re always learning is a good thing – but don’t take that to mean you’re NOT good enough. You can be a master and still be learning.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      One quick tweak there — good enough sometimes beats perfect. There are times when you need perfect. The trick is knowing which when you need when, and that’s something your manager can help you with.

    3. Ife*

      When I worked at the university, we set students up with Dragon Naturally Speaking and they had pretty good success with it.

      As for how to know when it’s “good enough,” I think that’s probably part of the steep learning curve! When I started a new job, I would ask my manager or coworkers to review my work if I was unsure of it. Like, “Hey, this is what I did, can you make sure I did not miss anything?” Or “Hey, is there a checklist or document that will tell me how to do thing X?” (Sadly, no, there never was, so I ended up creating my own)

    4. Sophie Winston*

      A – You have to talk to your manager about their expectations. For example, no one expects an entry level employee in my field to turn in work that is anywhere near perfect. I expect to give lots of review notes, and for them to rework the project accordingly until I’m satisfied. However, I do expect them to learn from those notes, and hand in work with new and different errors the next time!

      I would also advise against trying to hide your learning curve. It’s expected, and trying to do too many hours too soon will lead to burnout.

      Good luck!

  134. Pinky*

    Quick question: If someone’s executive assistant calls you for the first time ever, and the first sentence she utters includes describing the person she supports as “lazy,” would you do anything? Context: The person she supports is several steps up the hierarchy from where I am, and many steps over in the organization.

    1. ASJ*

      No. It’s not ideal, obviously, especially coming from a stranger, but I wouldn’t think it’s my business to say anything.

    2. ArtK*

      Work wise, keep your mouth shut. Etiquette-wise, there’s something called the “polite fiction.” If someone says or does something rude, you ignore it because you assume everyone is polite, so it couldn’t have possibly happened. (Often applied to things like passing gas in public.) The EA was extremely rude, but ignoring it is the best policy.

    4. NW Mossy*

      Having missed your window to say “I’m not sure Lucinda would like to hear herself described that way” at the time, I’d let it go. If you end up interacting with her more and it happens again, you can call it out in the moment, but I wouldn’t revive this particular instance.

    5. Chris*

      Gossip, particularly back-stabbing gossip, is bad news for a workplace. When you encounter gossip like this, the best thing I can say is to confront it directly. If she says something similar again, simply say ‘Oh? Do you have some specific instances of where you they were lazy that concern you? I’d like to help you resolve this’. In an organization where this sort of thing isn’t tolerated, finding a path to bing the two together so that valid work concerns can be solved will either flush out issues that need a fix, or it will reveal that there is nothing but a personal gripe being raised inappropriately that needs to be squashed.

      In my role, this is pretty easy. I would perhaps say ‘There seem to be some concerns about ‘x’ from ‘so and so’ with respect to some of your work, can you discuss it with them, and let me know what needs resolving? I can be involved in the conversation if needed’, depending on how I felt that would work out for the people involved.

      1. Chris*

        Having said that, you may not be in a position to do this. Your best bet might be to simply say ‘that sounds like something you should discuss with her supervisor if you have concerns’ and make it clear you’re not going to listen to it.

  135. Development Professional*

    I just came here to say that we have a Joaquin starting in my office on Monday and I am disproportionately excited about it.

  136. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    I’m super excited about some great opportunities for me to potentially move up at my job!

    Next week I am interviewing for a supervisory role in a different department. There is also a senior position in my current department opening up that my boss thinks I’d be a great candidate for. My team lead is also interested in the senior position, and if he were to get it then his team lead job would be open. After previously working for five years in a company with zero growth opportunity, it’s very exiting to have this many possibilities after a little over a year.

    1. Ife*

      I… don’t think I would want to work in that office or bring my infant to work. Seems like people bringing pets to work, except more disruptive.

    2. Rincat*

      It’s nice that they are okay with employees not being 100% productive, but I don’t think I could even be 10% productive. Especially with twins! My baby girl took up a LOT of time, especially since I was breastfeeding on demand, which basically is breastfeeding for like 23 hours a day.

    4. NW Mossy*

      I’m the mother of a 3-month-old and currently sitting in the lactation room. And all I can say is that while I love Lil’ Mossy dearly, she is at daycare right now for a reason! She’s an easy baby, but when I’m at work, I want to have my “work brain” turned on and be able to fully engage. No way that happens if she’s with me! Besides, she’s been thriving on watching her peers at daycare and would much rather do that than sit in my lap while I ignore her and type.

    5. Chris*

      Honest first reaction? This would only fly in a country that doesn’t offer universal paid parental leave. Period.

      Also, kudos to the company for finding a way to make that sound like a positive thing to employees. Hell of a spin job.

  138. Recent Grad*

    I graduated in May and haven’t found a full -time job yet. I actually just started looking in earnest a few weeks ago, because my other plans fell through. I sent my resume in to a staffing agency for admin work because I’m pretty low on funds right now, and I thought I could at least make a steady paycheck while I continue searching for entry-level jobs in my field. My plan was to drop any temp job I had as soon as I got a job offer for a position I actually wanted in my field.

    My problem is that the lady at the staffing agency indicated that I needed longer work experience on my resume (so far I have two six-month internships and a four-year work study job). She said that I should stay at the admin position for at least a year. So my two questions are:

    1.) Is it bad for my future career prospects if I don’t stay in my first job out of college for at least a year? Does it matter if it’s a temp job?

    2.) Is it disingenuous to the company who hired me if I leave so soon?

    1. ArtK*

      Whenever someone gives you advice, it’s always a good idea to ask yourself “what’s in it for them?” While she may be correct, she also has a vested interest in keeping you around. And no, it’s not disingenuous. People in the temp/staffing business should be quite used to employees leaving fairly quickly.

    2. Gandalf the Nude*

      Longer work experience really only applies to permanent positions. Employers will understand a new grad taking on various temp jobs while they try to find steady work. You do want to have a solid tenure, at least a couple years, at your first permanent job, or any job within reason. But temp jobs are meant to be temporary. As long as there’s not a firm commitment to a certain amount of time, you’re fine to put in a short stay and move on.

      It sounds to me like she wants to put you in a long-term temp position and wants to make sure you don’t bail before it runs out.

    3. TootsNYC*

      And let me take this opportunity to encourage you to keep your cards close to your chest when you’re interviewing with people. There’s no need to tell a temp agency that you’re definitely planning to bail, etc.
      You don’t need to make promises you don’t intend to keep, but you can hedge a little, and avoid the question. Now’s a good time to practice how to do this.

  139. anononon*

    Just coming to rant about how my boss made coworker and I cry today, so I’m really hoping I hear back from the jobs I interviewed with soon. Really hoping I get to get out of here soon so I don’t get screwed over by this job any further.

    2. Jade*

      So sorry to hear that! I’ve had bosses make me cry too, so I can understand how you feel.

      I hope you find a new job soon, too!

  140. Visualized Tacos*

    I am currently living in an area that is very different to the one I grew up in – I was raised in an urban area, but am now living in a small city (think 50k or so for population) in the same state where I was raised. I like where I live but the culture is very different and sometimes I have a hard time figuring things out, and a lot can be chalked up to “just the way things are done around here.”

    Case in point, and my question: a coworker’s adult son recently died in a car accident. Another teammate and I pulled together a collection to get a floral arrangement from our team sent to the funeral home. In addition to that, another coworker recently announced that she is ordering car window decals, with the name of the deceased, his birthday and date of death, and an “in memory of” type of message (like, “In Memory of Sebastian Teapot, MMDDYY – MMDDYY. Gone But Not Forgotten”). Coworker didn’t ask for money, but said we’d all be getting one.

    I asked around and no one seems to think this is odd or unusual, or questions participating in this. It seems like we’re just expected to put the decal on our car and drive around. I have lots of mixed feelings about this. I’d like to show my support to my coworker, but I didn’t know her son and never met him. I don’t generally put stickers/decals/decorations on my car, my car is just a vehicle that gets me from place to place, and I am kind of a private person so I don’t see the appeal of advertising how many kids I have or who I support for an election or whether or not I like tacos. In addition, since I didn’t know the son, I’d feel kind of fraudulent driving around advertising that he’s always in my heart, or gone but not forgotten, or whatever.

    No one else seems to be questioning this, and I’m worried that if I show up with the only car in the parking lot that doesn’t have a decal, I’m going to look out of touch.

    What would y’all do?

    1. The IT Manager*

      This I weird to me. I live in a city now. I grew up in the country. Whenever I see one of those memorial decals (not often but not unheard of), I assume that it is a very close relative or friend.

      1. Beezus*

        Same. My town is pop. 27K, grew up in one that was about 40K in another part of the country. I’ve only rarely seen decals like that, and always assumed it was someone very close to the deceased. The “in memory of” wording, in particular, always makes me think that the car itself is meaningful somehow…like maybe it was bought with inheritance money or it’s the deceased’s beloved old hot rod or something.

    2. Temperance*

      I wouldn’t do it. I see it out where I live, but it’s more typical of a different cultural group’s practice than my own.

    3. Ife*

      That is weird. Super weird. And I don’t think you need to put the decal on your car. I think the awkwardness of being the only car without a decal would die down quickly though. And probably you won’t be the only one.

    4. Sadsack*

      Seems very strange to me. I would not put it up. But I am like you and have no stickers or other decorations on my car. It just seems in poor taste for coworkers who probably did not even personally know the deceased to do this. I wonder if your coworkers will just take the stickers and not out them up. I also wonder what the parent of the deceased will think of this.

    6. JKP*

      Does the grieving coworker even want everyone to do this? I would feel strange about coming to work everyday and seeing a sea of decals on coworkers’ cars about my dead child.

  141. Jack the Accessibility Guy*

    For those of you who were here last week, I had a chat with Mr. Smiley whose many emoji tripped up my blind colleague’s screen reader. At first he didn’t get “why we had to work around [colleague]” until I straight up asked him if he’d like to explain this to our HR head. No more emoji!

    (Praise the Lord.)

    Anyway, thanks folks for all your help.

    1. Ife*

      Wait, he was seriously complaining that he couldn’t use emojis? Even after he got pretty much the most solid reason possible? Wow.

    2. NW Mossy*

      It’s amazing what people need to told sometimes! Glad everything worked out and that your colleague is no longer stymied by smilies.

  142. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Update: the coworker who was being anti gay after bothering me (who is gay), and being asked not to harass me, has been kicked off this contract job!

    2. Temperance*

      YAY! YAY!

      I was wondering how the heck that jerkwad managed to keep his job. I’m so glad that your workplace is supportive of you (and tolerance!).

  143. Betsy*

    How do you measure success for a difficult employee going on a PIP for being nasty toward her coworkers? Most of her problems come out in tone of voice and body language. If you read a transcript of her conversations you might not see a problem, but it’s all in the delivery. She’s also deeply narcissistic and struggles to understand why other people respond poorly to her when she speaks to them rudely. My employer has a very bureaucratic process for dealing with PIPs and potentially letting someone go, and I’m struggling to come up with a way of saying “stop being a mean jerk!” in a SMART goal.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Say that she needs to maintain pleasant, warm relationships with colleagues, such that they come away feeling good (or at least neutral) about their interactions — and they feel she’s helpful and easy to get what they need from.

      You don’t need this to be quantitative — it’s enough to lay out a description that a reasonable person will be able to tell if she’s met or not.

    2. C Average*

      In the past couple of years, I’ve read a lot of books about how to communicate effectively with your teen, and I feel like some of the stuff I picked up from those sources would work for your difficult employee. The trick is to define the bad behavior so you can call it out when you see it.

      So, you might tell your bratty teenager, “We’re going to Grandma’s house for Thanksgiving. I expect you to be polite and friendly. I expect you to engage with others. I expect you to say ‘please’ and ‘thank-you’ in a non-snarky tone, and to refrain from rolling your eyes. I expect you to create the impression that you like the people you’re talking to, whether you actually do or not.”

      And you might tell your bratty employee, “This is a professional environment, not middle school. I need you to help us foster a collegial environment. That means no eye rolls, no dismissive body language, no sarcasm or subtle meanness or passive-aggressive behavior toward your colleagues. You’re an intelligent adult and you know what I’m referring to. If I see any of this behavior, we’re going to have an immediate conversation about it, and if it doesn’t stop, it can and will lead to disciplinary action.”

    3. Not So NewReader*

      If anyone has complained to you directly, then go back and check with that person to find out if there is progress. I think that you would hear mention of it in passing, if she is making changes people might comment, “Jane gave me a copy of the xyz report when I asked and she was actually pleasant about it.”

  144. TotesMaGoats*

    No updated on the job front but a big pat on the back for me.

    We were sponsoring an event today and due to a connection there, I may have scored a major, long-term partnership with a multi-billion dollar global company to work with two of my graduate programs on a community investment style activity. All it took was one email.

    I am awesome. That’s all.

  145. TootsNYC*

    How do you use, and how do you manage, your work smartphone?

    I just got a company iPhone, since I’ve taken on supervising a department on another floor. This will let me check emails when I’m up there for meetings, and I can also check emails before I leave home in the a.m. (I’ve had a couple of instances in which it would have been really useful to be tapped in to something then).

    But now I have 3 devices: company iPhone, my own dumbphone (google voice #), and my iPod Touch.

    How much personal stuff do you put on / do on your company phone?
    I’m thinking I’ll have my personal Google Voice # forward to the company phone, and just use it. I’m pretty sure I have unlimited text and talk, so that shouldn’t cost the company money. And other people do it, apparently. (I used the wireless dept. guy, and he said, “well, it’s a company phone, so it’s supposed to be used for company business…” and drifted off.)

    Does your company care if you put your podcasts on there, or a couple of games for the commute?

    (I’m guessing Pokemon Go is out of the question!)

    Do you have a separate Apple ID for your work phone?
    How do you manage the accounts, etc.

    And of course, I have to figure out how to be on WiFi at the office, instead of using data to check emails. For some reason, I can’t get onto the server here; that’s a Q. for the team here.

    What do you do that maximizes the usefulness of your company smartphone?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t have a work phone, but I think it’s best for you to use your work phone as your primary phone and set up Google Voice on it (the GV iPhone app isn’t great, but it works). Give your work number to any work contacts and give your Google Voice number to everyone else. Just be sure when you’re calling out to non-work contacts that you call out via the Google Voice app.

      In terms of what you install or keep on your phone, I think that’s up to your company’s policies and your general workplace culture. That said, just keep in mind that they can monitor anything you do on your phone and delete whatever’s on your phone. They might not monitor it, but they have the right to. And they might not delete what’s there, but they have the right to.

      Then, if you’re planning to be at that company for at least a couple of years, I’d ditch the dumphone and the iPod Touch, and just keep to that one device.

    2. NW Mossy*

      I have an iPhone for work (although I rarely use it), and I would absolutely recommend having a separate Apple ID if you have any privacy concerns. There may be a convenience factor in having everything on one phone, but for me, it wasn’t worth linking my work and non-work lives so explicitly and there was a bit of an ick factor about what happens if I eventually leave my employer if my phone’s been doing double duty. The iPhone is for work, period; I use my own smartphone for everything else.

      1. Beezus*

        I do this, too. My work phone has nothing but work stuff on it. My personal phone has a separate Apple ID (company rules say the Apple ID on the work phone has to be linked to your work email and I don’t want to use my work email for anything personal.)

        Not everyone at my workplace is that rigid about separating work and personal life, though. Lots of people use their work phones as personal phones and load game apps and stuff on them. It’s generally allowed as long as you’re not letting games interfere with your work, you understand that nothing you do is private, and you don’t do anything that would cost the company money (e.g. downloading lots of stuff on the data plan instead of using wifi).

    3. vpc*

      I maintain complete, total separation, and deal with carrying two devices.

      For me, it’s because if there is ever a security issue that would cause my work phone to be erased and it was linked to any of my personal accounts, those personal accounts would also be erased.

      I’m not willing to take that risk. YMMV, but check into potential consequences before making a decision!

    4. Nancypie*

      I have 2 iPhones, business and personal. The only semi-personal thing I have on my work iPhone is Waze. I use separate Apple IDs. I have used it for personal calls and texts when traveling overseas (using discretion). I am also careful of the content of any browsing I do on it. I assume nothing is private.

      I like having 2 cell phones because I can leave the work one home or definitely look at it and get sucked into something. It’s one extra thing to carry, though.

  146. Ife*

    Casual Fridays and Leggings… is there a way to make it work?

    I am assuming that there’s a need to fully cover your butt/crotch, and that you should go for something in a dark solid color (no crazy patterns or bright colors). Is that enough? Or is this one of those things that is Just Not Done?

    1. Lily Rowan*

      That definitely depends on the office culture — if you’re a junior staff member, I wouldn’t recommend being the first person to do it, but keep an eye out on what other people are wearing.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I think there’s way too much pearl-clutching around leggings. Yeah, it definitely has to do with your office culture, but I’m hoping if it’s actually Casual Friday that people won’t throw a fit around clothes that everyday people wear out in public.

      1. Ife*

        I agree people are super weird about leggings and it just fascinates me how they can get so worked up about it. But they do.

        I feel like the answer at my own office is that I could probably do it and not have it be a big deal. I have been here for several years and I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen someone wear leggings, but, there aren’t that many women here either so the sample size is small.

      2. C Average*

        I agree!

        Soapbox:

        My stepdaughter’s in recovery for an eating disorder and really battles negative body image. As part of my effort to create a supportive environment for her at home, I have stopped saying anything about other people’s bodies, clothing, or grooming at all. Nothing complimentary, nothing judgmental, just plain nothing at all, ever. I’ve even tried to silence the voice in my head that makes critical judgments about the people I see.

        It’s made me hyper-aware of how fixated people are on how other people look and dress. Which, most of the time, is really silly. Unless you’re coaching a subordinate about the dress code, or unless you’re the host of “What Not To Wear,” why do you care so much about how other people dress? (I mean the generic “you,” not you specifically.)

        It’s been an enlightening experiment.

    3. Rebecca in Dallas*

      It really depends on the workplace. I personally hate leggings in general, but some people at our office wear them and look fairly professional. And some wear them and look really sloppy. Always make sure they are worn as hosiery, not pants.

    4. Rincat*

      I’d say go for a tunic or dress that hits mid thigh. If it hits just at the edge of your butt…to me that’s still too short for leggings in the office.

      Also – Uniqlo has some great leggings pants that are thicker than typical leggings and have back pockets and seams so they are more like real pants, and they feel awesome. I don’t feel like I have to have my butt covered quite as much with those.

      When I was pregnant, I basically wore nothing but leggings in the office with tunics, because real pants were just too hard at the time. :)

      1. Ife*

        Sadly I am short and skinny enough that wearing a shirt that hits mid-thigh would most likely make me look like I’m 12, unless it was super-fitted… and then it probably would be inappropriate for other reasons :) I see your point though!

    5. Kaitlyn*

      This reminds me of what a friend of mine just went through, but opposite? She started a new job, and when HR was going through all the pay-roll stuff, they mentioned to her that jeans were a no-no, except on Fridays. She was then told that she could go out and buy herself some black yoga pants, because those were permissible any day of the week. So basically yoga leggings are a-ok, but jeans are a no-go.

    6. Amtelope*

      At least in my office/field, wearing tight leggings as pants is too casual. Leggings would be OK with a tunic that’s long enough to read as a dress (mid-thigh), or with an actual dress or skirt. Yoga pants that are loosely fitted enough not to look like tights would also be OK. But tight leggings with a shirt that ends at your hips is too casual even for Casual Fridays. YMMV depending on your region/profession/particular office.

  147. Jillociraptor*

    Happy Friday everyone!

    I’m feeling very grateful for Executive Assistant Solidarity this week! I’m working on a huge meeting of folks from several other universities and the EAs I’ve been working with for my boss’s boss’s peers have been nothing short of amazing. These kinds of things end up being a hassle for all of the admin folks on all sides, but I have gotten nothing but kindness from the others, plus a sweet note of encouragement this morning.

    What are you grateful for this week?

    2. Amber Rose*

      Headphones.

      Coworker talks to himself and sleeps while snoring loudly at his desk, music and good headphones keep me sane.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      That it’s over.

      I think I speak for most people in my office–even though it was a short week due to the Labor Day holiday, no less than five people have said to me in the last two days that this was the longest short week ever!!

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        Oh my gods, yes. You know what happens when someone works in distribution and their workplace is closed for a holiday during a major ordering period? Instead of working 8 or even 7 hour days, they work 10 to 12 hours a day and also come in the previous & following saturdays to make up for that lost day. “Labor Day” = “prepare for extra labor this week”

    4. Drew*

      I’m grateful that I didn’t get the illness (or illnesses; symptoms have varied) that knocked down several key staffers this week. They sounded miserable.

    5. C Average*

      My new job.

      I just started two weeks ago, and I am so in love with this job.

      I’m working at this giant fabric warehouse. We have all sorts of wonderful things: velvets and laces and Pendleton wools and outdoor fabrics and home decor fabrics and buttons and notions and giant bolts of fake fur. I feel like one of Cinderella’s mice! Everyone I work with is creative and crafty. When we’re not helping customers, we’re talking about our own projects and dreaming up new projects. I feel so lucky to get paid to spend my time in such a magical place.

      And everyone is so freaking nice! I don’t think it’s just that I’m in the honeymoon period, either. Almost everyone there has worked there for a long time, and they all talk about how they like working there because the whole staff is so nice. I think everyone really is just plain nice.

    6. Sparkly Librarian*

      3 work days — government employees in California had both Labor Day and Admission Day (today, 9/9) off.

  148. Jade*

    How do you keep your head up in your job search when you are: currently underemployed in a field that doesn’t relate to a field you are pursuing; and have only been met with rejections (no interviews) for the last year?

    2. Snazzy Hat*

      It sounds minimal, but seeing postings for jobs I could do well is a big motivator for me. It shows employers are looking for someone to do what I want to do. Yes, I get discouraged by the lack of response, but the postings prove my ideal job concept exists and isn’t just a dream.

  149. Elle*

    What’s the protocol for reaching out a second time to a new introduction? I’m pretty new to networking, and I’m not entirely sure what’s appropriate, despite some googling. I met a guy on a plane who so happened to work in the industry I’m interested in, though not the same role, and he offered to put me in contact with the person in his company who does what I want to do. He followed through with an e-mail introduction, and I reached out, but have not heard back from that person. Since it’s such a loose contact is it still appropriate to reach out one more time to reiterate my interest in speaking with them? If so how long should I wait?

    1. C Average*

      When you emailed the new contact, did you ask specific questions or make specific requests, or did you just introduce yourself?

      I used to get a crazy high volume of email. I was always pretty good about responding to emails that seemed like they were looking for a response, but the ones that seemed just sort of FYI often fell to the bottom of the priority list . . . including, I hate to say, the ones from new introductions.

      If I got an email that said something like, “Hi, my name is Wakeen and I’m really interested in chocolate teapots,” I’d sort of file that away in my mind and think, “OK, cool, when we get an opening for entry-level teapot people, I’ll ping Wakeen and ask him some questions and see if he’s someone we should encourage to apply.” I even had an Outlook folder for job-seekers, and I really did reach out to those people when we had an opening; that folder wasn’t a black hole.

      But if I got an email that said, “Hi, my name is Wakeen. I’m really interested in chocolate teapots, and I’ve learned from your colleague Fergus that you are the in-house expert on chocolate teapots for XYZ Corp. That’s pretty much my dream job! Would you be up for having coffee with me and telling me a little bit more about what you do?” I would definitely respond within a few days.

      If it’s been a while, I don’t see any harm in reaching out again if you have specific questions you’d like to ask him or specific things you’d like to talk to him about.

  150. GigglyPuff*

    I found out this week I passed a comprehensive exam for a specialist certificate in my field. I really wasn’t sure how it was going to go, and I’m actually feeling really proud of myself.

    (Little context: I started working on a typical project for my job, think making teapots and putting those teapots online to sell. But the thing is, this is the first time I’ve had to start from scratch. My previous projects have all been either finishing a previous project, or just projects that dealt with putting those teapots online. So I feel like I’ve been asking questions and making mistakes on stuff that should have been worked out in the first few months of starting to work here, but I’ve been here a year and a half. So anyway, I felt good to be able to prove to myself that I actually have knowledge of how to do things in my field.)

  151. Miss Betty*

    I’ve had a job search going for awhile but I need help – my search terms are netting me nothing. I’m specifically looking for librarian and related jobs but also have a paralegal search going as well because full time librarian openings are very rare. Is it just me, or do Glassdoor and Indeed have the worst search algorithms ever?

    I’m using the following search terms: library, librarian, library assistant, knowledge management, information management, and records management. (Also, paralegal and legal assistant.) Glassdoor and Indeed are both sending me openings for HVAC technician, plasma nurse, outside sales rep, prestige beauty advisor at Ulta, food and beverage director, fire support specialist in the National Guard, assistant executive housekeeper, and an associate at a cafe (which is at least inside a library). Just to name a few!

    Clearly I’m doing something very wrong. I’d love any advice I could get, especially from librarians – but really from anyone who’s had a successful job search.

    1. GigglyPuff*

      Indeed works sometimes for library jobs, I’ve used it, but you should also definitely check library association websites: regional, state and specialty. There’s also crossover with museums and archives, so I’d check those associations too. There are places like libgigs or archivesgig, or some of the library science programs have open listservs you can join for job postings.

      1. Miss Betty*

        Thank you! I’ll add those to my list. I know my state association only allows members to search and when I graduated from library school I let my membership lapse since the cost would be coming out of my pocket. Time to loosen the purse strings a bit it seems.

    2. Jade*

      I’m running into the same thing with my job search. Glassdoor and Indeed always give me the most unrelated jobs to my interests and skill set possible.

      1. Miss Betty*

        So glad it’s not just me! One of my search terms (information management, I think) returned a result of associate at Victoria’s Secret. I don’t even know what to think!

    3. Not Karen*

      When you search e.g. library assistant, are you searching library assistant or “library assistant” (with the quotes)? If the former, you’d be getting hits for postings that mention both library and assistant, but not necessary in sequence.

      1. JMegan*

        Definitely use the quotes in your search terms! Information management is the worst, because there are so jobs that have both of those keywords in some form or another.

        As GigglyPuff said above, definitely check professional associations and library schools for job boards. There’s also I Need a Library Job (INALJ.com), which is a great resource. Also, if you’re looking for records and information management jobs, you may have good luck with government, and also the broader public sector – schools, universities, and hospitals. Many of those will not be advertised on job search sites, so you’ll need to go to the careers page for each organization to find them. Good luck!

        1. Miss Betty*

          Thank you Not Karen and JMegan for the suggestion. I’m going through and editing my alerts to include quotes and will see how that turns out. (It’s such an obvious thing and I do it for most searches; for whatever reason, it didn’t occur to me to include them when setting up job alerts.)

    4. SophieChotek*

      sign up for state/county updates. I am signed up for mine and I see library jobs at least once a month.

      Also, University of Illinois-Urbana, I think (?), has a forum devoted to library job positions — ? But you need to join/be approved…I think…(sorry if I can find out more I’ll post it).

    5. Dodobird*

      Sign up for job notifications from your local library systems — any systems near you. Most city/county libraries don’t advertise jobs outside of their own job city job notice board.

      And if you can afford to, I highly recommend taking a temp/call-in professional librarian job. It’s often the first step to getting a full-time gig because it’ll provide you with professions experience and familiarize you (and your work ethic) to relevant branch staff and managers.

      Good luck!

    6. dear liza dear liza*

      I agree with other commenters- you need to look at library-specific sites.
      I’ve been on many, many search committees and we’ve never advertised on job sites like Monster, Glassdoor, Indeed. In addition to the sites already mentioned: If you are looking for full-time librarian jobs, check out ALA Joblist. If you are looking for an academic librarian position, try the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and HigherEdJobs.com Good luck!

      1. Miss Betty*

        Thank you SophieChotek, Dodobird, dear liza dear liza, and DragoCucina! I’m actually subbed to some of those sites in The Old Reader, but have had difficulties getting there. I’ll start going through and checking them directly.

        My town has a population of 10,000 and the library closes at 8, 5:30 on Friday, 5:00 on Saturday – all of which limits my volunteering there. I work in a larger town, though and now am wondering if the library system there will take non-resident volunteers. Time to check it out….

        1. DragoCucina*

          They should be happy to get a knowledgeable volunteer. I hire a lot from my volunteers who then apply for jobs. They have a track record. Your state association may have a sliding scale. Write the association a nice letter and suggest a grace period of student rate for unemployed new grads. We’re always looking for ways to keep new grads connected.

    8. Aisling*

      With Indeed.com, unless you use quotes, you will get results with the word library somewhere in there but not always what you want. For instance, I was looking for librarian positions, and kept getting nanny positions in the results because the ad wants the nanny to take the kids to the library. Some of that you’ll just have to weed through.

      If you have the MLS, I’d also add “library science” to your search. That’s returned a number of related jobs for me.

  152. Rebecca in Dallas*

    Am I wrong to be annoyed about this?

    We are in a peak workload time at work. I’ve been working hard to stay on top of my workload as well as help out in other areas when needed. I’ve come in to the office for a couple of hours here and there on the weekends just push through some things with no interruptions.

    Twice, my boss has emailed our team asking for “volunteers” to work half-day Saturdays. In the second email, she said the request was coming from her boss. She also said the time would be paid back after peak season was over.

    I’m annoyed because I don’t mind working extra on the weekends when it’s needed, but I’d prefer for it to be flexible. I am training for a marathon and my group runs on Saturday mornings, so obviously I don’t want to miss out on any training. Plus…I’ve made sure that my workload is covered, so I’d be using this time to help others with their workload. And I’m also annoyed because I’ve already been working extra on the weekends without anyone asking.

    Anyway, not sure how to respond to her request without sounding like a brat. Or maybe I’m just a brat. :)

    1. Beezus*

      “Hey Jean, I can’t help the Payables group on Saturday because I’m already planning on coming in then to play catchup on the Sanderson project. Sorry, hope they get the help they need!”

      Or, if you’re willing to help but just don’t want to commit to a set schedule, “If they want to split some work my way, I can give them about four hours of my time on Saturday, but I have some other commitments that make it hard for me to nail down an exact time in the office that day. I can just tell you generally that it’ll be between 10 and 4. Let me know if you’d rather go with someone else instead.”

  153. That girl who emailed you earlier*

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HELP ME!!! I still don’t have a job. :(

    1. Fourth Month*

      AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHGGGGGGGHHHHH ME NEITHER AND IT SUCKS

      I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE TO OFFER HERE, I JUST THOUGHT WE COULD BOTH USE A GOOD SCREAM

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH I NEED TO JOIN IN ON THIS BECAUSE IT’S BEEN OVER EIGHT MONTHS AND OVER FORTY APPLICATIONS DAMMIT I’M GONNA SCREAM AGAIN AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  154. Dzhymm*

    If I am interviewing someone for a software engineering job that involves coding, is it reasonable for me to ask them in the interview to write some simple code on the spot?

    1. ArtK*

      Happens all the time. We use a very simple couple of problems for this. Personally, I like the coding test I was given many years ago. They gave a file with a maze encoded in it. I had to write a program to solve the maze. I wish I still had that program because they were very impressed by it. I’d like to use that as a coding test again but haven’t had time to design the problem.

    2. Marcela*

      I am not fond at all of coding interviews. I learned to program just coding, so I don’t have any knowledge about many of the most basic and common algorithms people learn in college. I’ve never needed them for my daily job, so that’s one place where I am at a 100% disadvantage.

      About 2 years ago, I had an interview where I was asked to solve a string problem in a whiteboard. I’ve never programmed like that: I use my favorite editor, which helps me providing me with possible commands or giving me the required arguments, and cleaning my code. And I also work incrementally, testing a small line and then adding more and more things. In a whiteboard, all of that was impossible. Therefore, it looked like I could not program to save my life, when I’ve been the principal developer for complicated codes with thousands of lines, used by more than 30 people.

      There are some good articles about people opposing coding interviews and they will explain things better, for sure. I know there is an open question about how to evaluate coding skills, and while I agree some testing could be useful, sometimes an “easy” problem is not actually easy because it uses knowledge we don’t normally use in our normal job, so we do not learn or or we forget it. In that aspect, I like the way I was interviewed at my current job, where I had to explain my last project and then I was asked very deep questions about my decisions, or why did I use that app, framework, database, etc, going into the very deep aspects of the code without being asked to code or to show them code that wasn’t mine to show.

  155. LisaD*

    Need some great intern sendoff ideas! My summer interns are almost done. Anyone had a great goodbye at an internship?

    1. Brooke*

      No, not me. How many interns do you have? If it’s just a few you could go out to lunch or ice cream.

  156. Need Some Advice or a Reality Check*

    I’m an Executive Assistant and I just scheduled a short-notice team event at my bosses request (going to a sporting event!), this event is totally optional for the staff and I’d say out of 40, only 10 people chose to stay behind. Now I just found out that I’ve been asked to be part of an interview team for late in the afternoon the day of our event – and wont be able to attend. (also wouldn’t have enough time to go to the start of the game and leave early).

    I feel like I shouldn’t have to go into work until this interview if everyone else is going to the game and having fun, and leaving the office around 10:30AM – but those people who opted out of the event are required to work…I’m pretty sure it’s standard for staff to work if they aren’t going to events like this, but I guess I just wanted everyone opinions on what (if anything) I can do since I didn’t volunteer to stay behind..

    1. LisaD*

      If your boss is a reasonable human, you could ask them “Hey, I was planning on attending the game with everyone, and then was asked to be on an interview team that day instead. I’m sad not to get to join the team for a fun event. Would it be okay if I took the morning off to do something fun by myself instead?”

      But honestly, this probably falls into the “lump it” category. There are probably a few people who hate team-building events who are going anyway to give the appearance they’re team players. You like team-building events and you’re being a team player by staying behind to do important work. Hiring is the most important thing any company does. The whole point of team-building is to build a team that will work harder and sacrifice for each other’s success as a group, so I guess you could take it as a compliment that it’s assumed you’re already committed enough you don’t need a silly ball game to be a team player!

    2. Colette*

      I don’t think it matters that you didn’t volunteer to stay behind. It’s a work day, and the event you’re missing is a work event, not free time off. I think it wouldn’t reflect well to ask for the time off.

      1. Graciosa*

        Agreed.

        It would not look well to ask for this time (unless you’re taking it from your vacation hours, for example). The time was given to those people who are participating in a group event because the business felt that the team building had sufficient business value.

        Asking for time off to be somewhere apart from the team and not participating in the shared experience does not serve that business purpose.

  157. LisaD*

    (Second unrelated question so doing a separate top level comment)

    Anyone have some hot tips on planning events with volunteers where there’s no formal chain of command? I’m planning something for a women in tech group, and another woman offered to “help plan” but now seems to think it’s her event – she changes things without consulting me, notifies the guest list of the changes, and when I talk to her about it, she gives me lines like “I think it’s wonderful that members of the group are coming together to host this event for each other, I don’t think we need to be so strict about things for a community event by women helping women!”

    The head of the group has been notified and agrees that the other woman is out of line and shouldn’t be involved in planning any future events, but I don’t have a specific “chapter leader” title to lean on or anything like that – my only claim to the event is that it was my idea, I started organizing it and she offered to help me, and my name is on it. Which is enough to make me uncomfortable with someone I don’t know making changes without my say-so, but she seems to think I should just relax and go with the flow.

    I don’t plan to work with her again, but the event is coming up and I wonder if there’s anything I can do to help the day-of run smoothly? I get the impression from her that she will give me all the “credit” if it’s a failure, but get up and talk about how glad SHE is to be hosting such a great group if the event seems to be a success.

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      First mistake was the head of the group not establishing a chain of command, even if it is among volunteers. Volunteers want (need) a leader. At this time, you are the leader (are you a paid staff member or the initiating volunteer?) because you started the ball rolling and you have the ear of the group head.

      First, establish a leadership structure, such that you have final say on all decisions (someone has to) and that she has a defined role, with parameters and area of authority. What is she good at, her strengths and skills? Ask her where and how she wants to shine in this event and then let her know you want her to do her best, but her best includes keeping you updated so you can support her (leaders support, not do it all themselves) Delegate her responsibilities that she seems to want, but the responsibility of having to adhere to certain guidelines and expectations.

      “Mrs. X. I’m glad you’re helping out. I can’t do it alone. I want this to be successful, too. In order for me to keep Mrs. Head of Group current on our progress, I need you to keep me informed of what you’re doing, now that we know what you’re responsible for. I will be the one point of contact and I will communicate changes, that we agree on, to the other members/ volunteers.

      Impressions are assumptions, unfounded unknowns that can’t be projected on her to satisfy your nerves. She might be a very outgoing, connected person who loves to event plan – let her run with that while keeping her within the parameters that you jointly establish.

      What are the consequences of her not working within the parameters? She can’t continue volunteer. Volunteers must be held accountable, too (I’m a volunteer) Expectations + guidelines = success

      1. zora.dee*

        Chiming in to agree with a lot of JLK’s points above. In the future, nip this in the bud way sooner. (although, hopefully, you won’t have to deal with this again, this is a pretty extreme situation)

        And to just point out, you, don’t need an official title in order to take the reins from other volunteers when they are actually yours to take. You can say something like: “I am the point person on this event” or “I am lead on this event” and that is enough.

        It’s tough at this point, but I would try to grab some of the reins now. “With the event approaching, I want to thank you for all you have contributed. But we need to have one point person on-site for Day Of, so that there isn’t any confusion. So, please make sure these plans I have here include everything that has been arranged, and if anyone from here on out tries to make changes or if there are any problems, I need them to go through me first.” And make sure to tell all of the other volunteers the same thing, that all major issues, changes or questions must come to you directly on the day of.

        That said, it might be hard to make that happen. She has proven to be full of herself enough to grab things she KNEW were not her job, and I wouldn’t put it past her to jump in or try to cut you out of things day of. So, also try to get some zen about it: if things get fixed and still run smoothly, let it go, roll off your back, and shrug her off and move on to the next thing. But also, try to be ready to be more forceful with her in the moment if she tries to do something that is going to create a bigger mess. “Jane, I need you to step back right now. I am Point Person right now, and this is what is going to happen.”

        Yeesh, good luck with this one! I hope everything goes smoothly in spite of her, and come back and give us an update!

  158. JLK in the ATX*

    Just wanted to share the stats of my 8 months job search

    15 applications closed; 3 open awaiting responses
    6 interviews (phone, in person)
    0 offers

    (6) 40% provided hiring update responses without me having to follow-up
    (7) 47% gave a final decision response without me having to beat down their doors
    (3) 20% forced me to beat down their doors
    (4) 27% never responded despite me huffing, puffing and blowing their doors down
    (1) 7% those I opted out of the hiring process for various reasons

    (Note: beating down doors refers to professional, yet interested email follow-ups)

    Stories:

    I spent 2-months enduring 4 interviews to be told they’re going in a new direction with the position, but then found out they hired someone. They were disorganized; wasn’t a good fit.

    A non-profit that serves Veterans and spouses went completely radio silent and never responded despite that I’m a Veteran and spouse AND had used their services at one time. Same for another position serving Veterans and I wasn’t considered despite having done the same job elsewhere (they hired internal so they were just checking the requirement – due to govt funds – of publishing outside)

    No responses, 30-days from submission, from a non-profit that I’ve worked for, for three years (and intend to again as a VITA tax manager), and currently volunteer as a tax preparer. I send my 2nd follow-up, 2-weeks after the first one and 1-week after the first ‘did you get my resume email?’

    I turned down further interviews for a position when I realized the commute would leave me rolling out of bed onto the train/to my car just to get there in time. I knew traffic was challenigng, but I’d be scrambling every morning to get out of the house and that’s now how I want to start my day.

    ***
    I’ve been working with a job coach (helpful) and attending two local job clubs (equally helpful), and started investing time in my StrengthsFinder assessment (highly recommend) which was suggested by a non-profit CEO with whom I interviewed.

  159. Snazzy Hat*

    Two short instances of “you’re paying me, right?”:

    1) Earlier this week, instead of eating lunch, S.O. was told to leave work & pick up his carpool guy (who thought his day-off request was being honored) because the place needed all hands on deck. Before leaving, he quipped that he wasn’t punching out, as this trip was him doing work for them. When he got back, no one said “thanks, take your lunch.” Hopefully his temp agency doesn’t look at the hours for that day and think, “oh, he forgot to punch out for lunch” and then dock his pay.

    2) Sister lives in a state that requires employees to be paid all unpaid wages by the business day after their last working day. She’s waited three weeks so far. On the plus side, she worked for a national company which has an HR department.

    1. Colette*

      Ok, sending someone to pick up the person they carpool with after they’re already at work is ridiculous. If he needs to be there that badly, they should be paying for a cab.

  160. Dodobird*

    Any advice from fellow night owls on how to navigate a work world that favors larks?

    Right now I’m very lucky to have a PT professional job that pays well, 20-25 hours/week, with full benefits (medical, dental and even pension). I’m also doing what I love; I’m a children’s librarian and it’s a really a great fit for me on many levels.

    The thing is, I would like to eventually transfer to a full time opening at another branch… the only thing holding me back is the thought of early mornings 5 days a week. Right now I work 2 early shifts, 2 late shifts. To get a 40 hour work week though, I’ll have to do 5 early mornings and as someone who naturally sleeps at 4am and wakes at 11am, I am unenthused.

    I guess I’m not really looking for advice so much as insight into how other night owls manage their work lives.

    1. JLK in the ATX*

      Great question I don’t have an answer to. I hope someone can weigh in.

      We’ve been getting up at 0500 since we went into the military, so early mornings are who we are. But so is doing some kind of fitness. I’m not ready to compromise my PT and the time with my husband, as well as the prep time in the morning to get mentally ready for the day.

      I remember moving from days to graveyards, for a summer resort position, and it took a biological toll on me. Good luck.

    2. Amber Rose*

      With copious amounts of coffee.

      Honestly, you just get used to it eventually. I enjoy having my evenings for me time enough that I just suck it up. Depending on your health that may not be for you. But there’s no easy way to go from night owl to morning person. You just do it until you adapt.

    3. JKP*

      I’m such a night-owl myself. Few things that have worked for me:
      1) Sunrise alarm clock (I’ve used the Biobrite one for years now – you can get it off Amazon). You set the alarm for the time you have to get up, and then starting 15 min – 30 min before (depending on the setting you choose), the light slowly starts going up until by the time your alarm goes off, the room is fully lit. I can’t emphasize enough how much this helped me. Before I discovered the sunrise clock, I had 7 different alarm clocks scattered at various distances from my bed, all set at different times, and I would still manage to oversleep (I’m a sleepwalker, so I could manage to shut them all off without waking up). Now this is the only alarm I need, and I always wake up when it goes off (because the light has been gradually waking me up already).
      2) For a few hours before bed, use blue-blocking glasses when you’re on the computer/smartphone/TV. The blue light from electronic devices prevents your brain from releasing the chemicals it needs to go to sleep. Apple’s newest iOS even has a setting where it can go into “Night Mode” each day at a specific time and get rid of the blue light. Your screen will look a little yellow-ish, but you don’t even notice after a little while.
      3) Try melatonin 30min – 1 hour before you want to go to sleep. It’s what your body produces naturally at night anyway, so it’s safe. It doesn’t work like a sleeping pill, you just get a little sleepy, and that’s when you should go to sleep. My boyfriend and I call it the “sleep bus.” Because when the sleep bus arrives, you should get on, otherwise it will pass you by and you’ll have to wait for the next sleep bus.

      1. JKP*

        4) Oh, and I also have an app on my phone (To Bed) that reminds me 30 min before I want to go to bed, so I don’t end up losing track of time and staying up later than I intended.

      2. Rob Lowe can't read*

        That sunrise alarm clock sounds amazing! I get up at 5 AM for work, and while my body is pretty okay with my early mornings, the actual act of getting out of bed at 5 is pretty awful, especially in the winter. If only I didn’t have to wake up 90 minutes before the person I share a bed with, I’d be ordering one of those clocks instead of writing this comment!

        1. JKP*

          If your partner sleeps with a sleep mask, they won’t even notice it. The sound of the alarm is fairly quiet. It beeps until you turn it off or hit snooze, and the beeps start soft then gradually get louder. Because the light gets you ready for the alarm to go off, the initial softer beeps wake you up right away and might even be less noticeable to a partner than the sound of a louder alarm clock.

    4. Retiree57*

      This won’t help you on the question of how to adjust to mornings, but, if you work in a system big enough to have branches, you might be able to negotiate a position that is mostly afternoons and evenings. One feature of children’s librarianship that can sometimes make it hard to have work/life balance is that the peak service times tend to be after school and early evening hours. Additionally community events tend to be later in the day. But many people prefer to work day time hours, especially as many children’s librarians have children themselves so those school hours, when you don’t need paid childcare or another parent coverage, are at a premium. In short some department somewhere will love you if you can take more than the usual amount of evening/weekend work. Inevitably there would be some mornings you would have to work, staff meetings, etc. but as long as you don’t specialize in preschool/early childhood, where programs are often in the mornings, you might be able to work your way into a job with a schedule more suited to you. Good luck!

  161. Be the Change*

    Crap. I missed something very, very small several weeks ago, didn’t even realize it until just this minute, and it is a Thing. It makes me look incompetent — maybe not just look incompetent, possibly AM incompetent? And caused some trouble for someone else. I HATE when things come in off-schedule and I HATE being the go-between for information. I’m definitely the weak link in the info-passing chain. And it doesn’t help when I use one info-storing system and the people I’m talking to use a different system which they keep changing because they are cool IT people who know all the new systems the moment the new thing comes out and I am happy to plug along with excel and dropbox.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t panic. It might work out, but don’t feed the panic. This means going directly into, “Let’s fix it” mode.

  162. L*

    I started a new job a month ago, thanks in no small part to what I learned here. Reading the blog also helped me keep my sanity and reassure myself that OldJob was, in fact, toxic and my expectations for normalcy were not unreasonable.
    My new job is very nice so far. There is one oddity, though, that is going to necessitate a workaround. I do a lot of tech writing- FAQs, update policies, that sort of thing. My boss hates the word “the”. As in, with very rare exceptions and only when approved by her, I can’t use it. Think the scene in Amadeus when the young Mozart is told “too many notes”. So, my writing reads like a recipe. A very long, dull, multipage recipe. I’ve always taken pride in being able to get my point across without a bunch of unnecessary information, but I do value a good rhythm and flow in my writing. So… how do I reduce the choppiness without adding any prohibited “the”s ?
    Thanks in advance!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Those kinds of artificial restraints are ridiculous. I once worked at a school that forbade the use of I in end-of-term comments about students. Not being able to use the? Are you supposed to sound like a stereotypical caveperson? Yikes!

    2. zora.dee*

      Um, that’s dumb. I just looked at my phone user manual which I had open, and read some out loud removing all “the”‘s and that is just WEIRD.

      Instead of recipe I would have said it sounds like a 90s movie robot speaking.

      I have no advice but just wanted to commiserate that that is dumb.

      1. L*

        I guess I have food on the brain- beat sugar into butter/grease and flour cake pans/preheat oven to 350 degrees. Geez… translating recipes was good practice for the imperative when learning languages… I never thought I’d have to use it on my English!

    3. Audiophile*

      Yeah that’s ridiculous. Has your boss shared her reasons for hating the word?
      My last boss really disliked hyphens, as in, Microsoft Office Suite hyphenating words automajrvsy for.spacing reasons. Before that job, it was never something I really noticed

      1. L*

        She went to a business writing seminar a while back where it was described as one of those often overused superfluous fillers, and I guess it stuck. Hard. She showed me her notes from said seminar and it was given by a person I know casually, who is so out-there I’m not sure I’d take much advice, writing or otherwise, from her.

    4. Snazzy Hat*

      Some suggestions: Hand-write the shorthand symbol for “the” wherever it belongs. Write in a language which doesn’t use definite articles in the first place. Write in a logographic language. Spell it “ðe” or “ye”.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      After you open … a … document you’re working on, click on …. a …. Edit menu and select Cut. Then open up a second document to paste in … a … text that you’ve selected…

    6. C Average*

      Seconding all the “that’s ridiculous” comments.

      Has your boss explained why she dislikes the word “the,” and does she understand that her preference is really unusual and likely isn’t shared by the general readership of your work? I mean, a good bit of writing well is knowing your audience and tailoring your work to their needs. I think they’re going to notice if your FAQs sound like long, boring recipes.

      (Although, to be honest, when I try to imagine language lacking “the,” I keep hearing it in the voice of either Yoda or Khal Drogo, not Martha Stewart.)

      1. zora.dee*

        Also, with any thing like this, there are certain uses where it’s actually necessary.

        Like: “the internet” : “Access instructions for this on internet”
        that is so weird.

    7. Observer*

      Maybe do some research on writing / style guides and see if there is anything on the use of the word “the” or “fillers”.

      Also, maybe try writing up one of your instruction set with and without the word the and ask her to look at them and THEN explain why you shouldn’t use the word the.

      And, whatever happens, please follow up with this. So, so odd!

    8. Troutwaxer*

      The worst-case scenario is that everyone except your boss will believe that you are not a good writer. You’ll be writing “Click ‘Save’ button at bottom-left corner of screen.” instead of “Click the ‘Save’ button at the bottom-left corner of screen.”

      People might start telling your boss “That tech writer of yours is no good. Let’s fire them.”

      So start documenting in emails and by other methods as well that your boss is giving these orders, something like, “Here is the document you requested. As per your standing orders it does not include the word “the” except where you have specifically approved the use of this word.” You might also save documents both with and without “the” in them – that is, write the documents with “the” then remove them with Word’s search-and-replace function, so if the boss’s boss questions you, both documents are available for publication by the company. Then print those emails, and any interesting replies you receive, and make sure you have them available at home.

  164. Kenji*

    I’m super late to the party this week, but I wanted some outside opinions on a comment a colleague of mine made recently that struck me as…kind of off.

    for context, I’m in my first real grown up job out of grad school – a head wildlife tech for a big research nonprofit. One of the protocols I’m responsible for involves some minor veterinary procedures (…safe capture and handling of wild teapots?), and I’ve long ago learned that the veterinary sampling just isn’t my strongest suit. I can do it perfectly competently, but there are plenty of other people who can do it more efficiently and with a better success rate. That’s fine with me and my manager – it’s only a small part of my job, and we specifically hired a lead technician who’s got a ton experience with those skills to pick up any slack.

    I was telling one of my counterparts (same job, different research site) about our new techs, and when I said “I’m really glad we’ve got Fergus, he’s way better at the veterinary side of sampling than I am,” she was totally shocked. She said (to paraphrase) that as a manager and a team lead, she wanted to feel like she had the strongest skills out of the group, and wouldn’t want to feel like they were “better” than her at one of our staple procedures.

    That struck me as kind of a weird position – the way I see it, my job isn’t to be “better” at anything than the techs I supervise – I just have a different set of bigger picture abilities. Sampling is only a small part of my job, so it made sense to me to hire techs who are strong where I’m weak, and vice versa. That said, I’ve had managers in the past tell me I have a bad habit of being overly self-depricating or selling myself short, so maybe that’s at play here? My counterpart is fantastic at her job and I respect her a lot, so I don’t want to discount her views, and I’m very new to the job world and being a manager. Any thoughts?

    1. Dzhymm*

      In my opinion the idea that a manager has to be better at everything than their subordinates is totally asinine. Nobody can be good at everything, and a good manager assembles a team with the necessary talents to get the job done. While a manager should at least have a working understanding of everything going on, no way do they need to be “the best” at it.

      By way of analogy I once asked my dentist if he sometimes does the occasional cleaning himself just to stay in practice. He said, “No, I hire good hygenists to do this. They do it every day and they’re very good at it. This frees me up to do the things I do best”.

      1. Graciosa*

        Agreed.

        Your counterpart is – at best – foolish.

        If you think about it logically, her attitude doesn’t necessarily mean that she is the *absolute* greatest at every job, or that her overall team is the most effective. It could just mean that she is wasting her time and effort on jobs other people could do better to the detriment of those things only she can do (Dzhymm’s perspective).

        It could also mean that – consciously or unconsciously – she treats her own skill level as the cap on the skill level of anyone she can hire.

        I have seen this attitude in poor managers. They don’t want anyone else showing them up (because they need to keep believing that they are the best) and they will find flaws in any candidates who might appear to put the manager’s “first place” status at risk (candidate was too arrogant, or must be lying about abilities because no one could be better, etc.).

        Like any sensible manager, I hire people who outshine me in specific areas all the time, and I have no problem saying so.

        Do not take management advice from this colleague. Ever.

    2. vpc*

      A good manager knows her weaknesses, and hires people who have those strengths to form a well-rounded team. While a manager should be at least passingly familiar with all her team’s duties (so she can tell when she needs to adjust workload, and can speak knowledgeably to senior management about the strategic implications of various decisions) she doesn’t have to be the best at – or even capable of, sometimes – doing them herself.

      In a previous job, I did a lot of analytic work. Could my manager have done the same analyses? Absolutely not. Did she use the results I gave her to inform decisions? Absolutely.

    3. TG*

      The best managers I know hire competent people and give them the tools they need to do their best job. They believe their employees should be the best at their jobs, not necessarily the manager.

  165. DragoCucina (formerly Library Director)*

    Hi, I’m late to the party. We have two new HR interns. This is my first time working with non-library interns. My past experience with library internships has been during the summer when it’s, “Here’s the theme, let’s put on a show!” I read AAM’s very helpful articles about working with interns that helped with the interviews. We do have a few big projects they will work on.

    Does anyone have any specific tips you’d like to share?

    1. Graciosa*

      Try to make sure that (in addition to the big projects) the interns are exposed to as many departments and functions as possible. Large companies have formal programs for this (for example, all our interns hear from the C-suite head of a different function each week, with an opportunity to ask questions) but it can easily be arranged in smaller companies a bit more ad hoc. I had a colleague do something similar on a smaller scale by arranging for a series of individual interviews with his contacts in different functions (weekly with different people, with a prize at the end for the best question during an interview as determined by the participating staff).

      It doesn’t matter if it’s a very small company – every entity has a lot of stuff that somehow gets done (from setting strategy to getting supplies ordered or the floors swept). Learning about all the different pieces that go into making things work and how those pieces fit together is very useful insight for someone new to the work force.

      If the interns are going back to school, they will talk to each other and share experiences. They measure the quality of that experience by what they did (was the work interesting, challenging, and meaningful) and what they learned (not only about the project, but throughout the experience).

      Good luck.

  166. thatwritergirl*

    Okay, fun times:

    My mother’s got an assistant (she’s been there for… what, ten years?) and for most of those ten years, said assistant has been rather moody and whatnot, but my mother let it slide. Recently, it’s gotten shocking. She’s not doing her job (and by that, it’s ‘being actively told to do something and refusing to’, not just forgetting); she’s deliberately going out of her way to do other unimportant jobs (“research” which her job doesn’t involve – her job is an assistant job, and a hands on one); she’s lying about why she’s not doing things. She’s always tried to get into the management team’s pocket, because she’s obsessed with the gossip and whatnot – recently, she’s been dropping hints of some pretty confidential stuff, and my mother’s been getting hauled into offices along with her colleague (who this woman is also an assistant for) and accused of bullying random staff members who my mother has nothing to do with. It’s not an isolated incident – apparently the assistant blatantly refused to work for the woman who replaced my mother’s colleague when she went on leave last year, because she just “didn’t like her” and also spread some vile rumours about other colleagues in the department. Rumours which were believed by upper management because they’re close, and their follow-up by one of the assistant’s closer ‘friends’ led to one staff member being out on stress leave. Kind of breaking the camel’s back, the assistant requested a day swap so she could take a day off without losing pay/leave. My mother was happy for her to have the day off (it was an important day), but she needed replacement for that day as it was a full on day, so they couldn’t just swap the shift – it had to be a day of leave. Assistant immediately emailed her friend (same one as above) and he approved the swap, then hauled my mother into his office saying she was bullying the assistant by not letting her take the leave. My mother explained that no, she never said that, she just said they couldn’t do it as a shift swap. He insisted Mum wasn’t clear about that, then; one of the assistant’s other friends was snide about it to my mum and her coworker (the assistant had also approached the coworker to ask for the shift-swap and she’d repeated the same info as my mother). The assistant then proudly came back in with her slip for “special leave” and told mum and her coworker, “They’re not going to let you replace me now.” The way most of the department sees it, this woman wants to be ‘boss’ – and is trying to get there however possible, and is trying to assert power or something.
    It’s all a mess, and a few of the staff members are wanting to report her, but aren’t sure how because this assistant is in everyone’s pockets. My mother was wanting to say something to the assistant directly, but given how she’s being accused of bullying, she’s worried about the outcome. Any advice? She’s not a direct user of this site (or many sites) but is worried about facing it on Monday… though she knows she has to.

    1. thatwritergirl*

      Wow. That’s basically a Tolstoyian novel right there; I apologise. tl;dr – mother’s assistant is painful, how to approach.

      (Also, to add: because of how the system is, she isn’t responsible for hiring/firing, so that’s not an option.)

  167. Bex*

    AAACK! I had an internal interview last Friday with two of our senior executives and it went REALLY well. I nailed it. Then I wrote them each a lovely thank you email aaaaaand today I realized that the emails are still sitting in my drafts folder. I never sent them.

    What should I do?? Send a revised version saying that it slipped my wind over the long weekend? Not send anything and hope they don’t notice? I keep going back and forth. Help!

  168. Amanda2*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for managing and reducing work stress that you carry home with you? I have a stressful job in the field of education. I find myself waking up in the middle of the night worrying about work. It will take me a few hours to fall back asleep. Lately, the stress has been creeping in on the weekends and I find myself spending my spare moments worrying about and thinking excessively about work. Does anyone have any successful way that they clear their mind and fall back asleep? Or push work worries out of their mind if they happen to creep in on the weekend? I feel like I can’t escape the work stress and it’s exhausting.

    1. Jillociraptor*

      For the waking up in the middle of the night thing, I sometimes keep a notebook next to my bed to write down all the things I’m worrying about. Something about getting it out of my head and onto paper helps me to stop obsessing about it. I guess it’s that the list will be there in the morning so I won’t forget anything. And sometimes having to put some of the anxieties into words makes me realize how silly they are and not worth worrying about.

    2. Rob Lowe can't read*

      Make sure you are dead tired at bedtime. I find that a full day at school followed by a 3-mile run usually does the trick. No caffeine after lunch, no screens after 8. I will pop a few Benadryl 30 minutes before bedtime if needed. (I know not everyone is comfortable with using medications in situations like this, but even when I wake up in the middle of the night I’ll take some Benadryl to help me get back to sleep.)

  169. Peggy Sue*

    Hiya, I have a weird ethical advice question.
    My boss really wants to keep me exempt, and I really want to stay exempt, but that would require a really significant raise and he’s not sure he can get it approved.

    He indicated to me that he’ll get me as much as he can – if it’s on the low end, he’s fine budgeting a lot of overtime to sort of bring me up to where he thinks my pay scale should be. If it’s on the higher end, he’d rather I work less overtime…or at least report less of my overtime.

    I know what he’s hinting around, and I’m fine playing the game if it gets me a higher base salary. But I also know it’s probably illegal. Thoughts?

    1. MarciaMarciaMarcia*

      Why do you need to be kept exempt? I’m not in HR and this is not legal advice, but I don’t believe your boss is doing anything wrong by saying that if they get you (an exempt employee) a raise they’d rather you work less or report less overtime. As exempt you have no guarantee since you are not protected by FLSA, and are not entitled to overtime pay requirements. What I do think is that you’re both playing a dangerous game here with them verbally telling you that they’ll budget OT for you- what if higher ups cut that budget, what if sales (or whatever) are low and HR has limited OT for all employees? You have to decide if the raise you get offered is enough to make you feel adequately compensated for your time, whether or not you ever get paid OT should not factor into your decision.

    2. Observer*

      Not reporting your overtime is illegal. Period.

      I understand that your boss means well. But, it really is illegal. And YOU don’t have to be the one to report it, for it to be a problem for the company if the DOL comes knocking.

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