open thread – June 23-24, 2017

by Alison Green on June 23, 2017

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A PSA: If you are getting spammy redirects on your phone when visiting this site, please try clearing your cache and cookies (at least for AAM). That’s fixed it for a lot of people (although not for everyone). I’ve been hit with a wave of these recently, and it’s proved really hard to track down and stamp out although we’re working on it. Thanks.

    1. Teacher*

      Thanks, Allison. I’ve also been getting spammy redirects on my PC at work…it’s been weird!

  2. I Am The OP*

    I am the letter writer for yesterday’s post about getting a job outside of the normal office setting. Thank you everyone who shared ideas and advice, I read every comment and I really appreciated everyone taking the time to write.

    I’m not in a huge hurry to leave my current office job; I’m just enjoying being out of a truly toxic environment like my last job. But my thoughts have been turning to the future, rather than my desperate search from the last place. And as some guessed, I’m fairly new in my career and have some time to try things. I’m going to get involved with various volunteering and a few evening classes to branch out and see what strikes me. I’m looking forward to all the possibilities and new experiences to come my way.

    Thanks again, everyone! Love this community so much and really appreciate all the feedback!

    1. DevAssist*

      I didn’t comment, but was thinking that maybe a job in aesthetics would be a good fit? The schooling can be done part-time and isn’t usually too long or too expensive, and then you can be in a job that allows you more interaction with people and more flexibility, especially if you rent a room and work for yourself rather than a company.

      1. Swimmergurl*

        I was thinking the same thing! For example, you could do hair and makeup for weddings and basically keep all of your tools in a rolling suitcase. Being a masseuse could also provide flexibility, especially if you invest in a massage table and can bring it to people’s homes. Being a doula is also lucrative, flexible and requires little training. Some of them also teach child birthing classes on the side.

        1. Anon for Meow*

          I don’t want to nit-pick terminology, but the the word “masseuse” is extremely verboten in the spa industry since it has some unsavory connotations. Most professionals insist on massage therapist or LMT. But you are absolutely right about the flexibility! My good friend is an LMT for the Ritz Carlton and since they allow you to transfer between resorts, she has been able to travel to and live in some pretty amazing locations for her work! She’s very passionate about her work and the people she serves–not to mention the opportunities to meet (and massage!) celebrities who stay there. It’s a really neat profession.

          1. Rache*

            Ahhhh… thank you :) I’m also a LMT and it’s very tough to train people away from the terms masseuse/masseur. A lot of time and money goes into the schooling and certification (and don’t even get me started on renewals and continuing ed!! lol) so anyone licensed is typically very quick to correct that.

    2. MuseumChick*

      This is how I ended up in my career (working in a museum). I started to volunteer on a whim and just fell in love with it. Volunteering and even internships will give you the best sense of what you like doing. Good luck!

    3. anonandonandon*

      I started volunteering at a local radio station, quickly moved up to midday host, and a couple of years later was the music director!

      Of course, radio isn’t exactly a growing industry these days….

      1. I Am The OP*

        I’ve always wanted to get into radio but I’ve been hearing far too often that it will be gone soon. Of course that’s been said for a while and it’s still here but it does make me a bit nervous to get involved with it.

        1. OhNo*

          It might be worth looking into podcasting – it seems to be a close cousin of radio nowadays. And I know there are several media companies/groups that sponsor or manage multiple podcasts, so there might be opportunities to get into the field through those (rather than just jumping in to making your own right away).

    4. New Bee*

      I missed the post yesterday, but working at a school site (or for an org that travels to different schools, like a reading partners program) could be a good fit. At a school site every day is different!

    5. Anxa*

      I didn’t respond because I haven’t really had a lot of time on the computer lately. Because of work. My main job has some time spent in an office, but I have no computer or wifi access (and I don’t have a smart phone).

      I tutor (so, kind of officey in that I drop things off at an office and in the past have filled in for the admins) and am a health inspector (temp).

      Drawback of health inspecting? My office is now the county car that’s available that day, and oh god do I miss having a clean surface to put my things (I keep getting the car the septic inspectors get).

      I’ve worked in a lot of para-office jobs but I’m 31 and never had a proper office job. Sometimes this site mystifies me because I wonder what people are doing in their offices, since I’ve always done the bulk of my work outside the actual office.

  3. Sunflower*

    Wondering what to do about an intern who isn’t a good fit for the job but we can’t let her go.

    We had an intern start about 9 weeks ago. She is here for another 3 months. She constantly submits work with mistakes, texts on her phone all day and just doesn’t seem to care about the work. She had a disciplinary meeting with HR where she was given a formal warning. My entire team would like to fire her but my director says we can’t since the company does not want to jeopardize it’s relationship with the university. The intern has said since the meeting that she is ready to work hard and will improve. There is no formal plan in place. I was hoping she would just quit after the meeting as there’s no way she would make it past the 90 day probationary period we have for regular employees.

    This meeting was 3 days ago and she is already slipping up- sending incorrect work, saw her on FB, texting all day. I told HR it’s at the point where it’s more time consuming for me to give her work and have to check it 5 times and more thoroughly than if I had done it myself.

    So I’m not sure what to do with her for the next 3 months. The work I really need done involves deleting and adding files onto our database and I REALLY don’t trust her to do that correctly. Do I give her work that I don’t even plan on using? Do I just let her sit there and text all day? Do I give her another shot and hope she keeps screwing up? We’ve already started documenting everything going on since the meeting.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      A)Fire her
      B)Call her university. They should be the one’s upset about her performance not your company for wanting to get rid of a poor performer. I bet there were other applicants that got turned down.

      If you can do A, at least do B then at least do some sort of PIP. I bet the university will be supportive.

      1. Amber T*

        Agreed – firing an intern because of poor work doesn’t reflect poorly on you. Call up the university’s office or department that handles this and say “I wanted to let you know that Lucinda will no longer be working with us. After meeting with her several times, including a formal disciplinary meeting with HR, her performance did not improve and we had to let her go.* We’re still interested in hiring interns from University and would love to discuss this with you in Month when we plan on hiring a new intern.” Or, considering she’s not quite halfway through the internship, you could ask if there are any other students who would be interested?

        * Yes, this is technically being fired and not let go – however, you might want to soften the language here. This might be a case where the confusion between the two terms works out in your favor.

    2. Tiffany In Houston*

      I would think that the University would want to know at this point that this intern is doing poorly for fear of jeopardizing their relationship with your employer for future intern candidates. Can you or your Director reach out the internship coordinator? I don’t see why you have to be held hostage by this particular intern.

      1. Hellanon*

        Yes, those intern placements are equally important to the university – they won’t want to jeopardize their relationship with *you* and if it’s an academic internship, the interns get graded, meet outcomes, etc. Call the university – they need to know. (As does the intern – that’s why they do these things, because it’s called “work” for a reason, and the expectation is that her next employer won’t have to deal with these behaviors.)

        1. AD*

          Strongly agree with both comments here. I’m struggling to understand how this would be interpreted as “we can’t alert the university to their student’s lackluster intern performance because they’ll be angry at us“.

          That’s just not how it works. Any college/university worth their salt would definitely want to know that a student in an internship program such as this has basically become a liability.

        2. Trout 'Waver*

          Unless it’s a very prestigious university, I’d agree. I’d even say the internship is more important to the university than the company.

          And if it is a very prestigious university, they’d probably be appalled that the intern was behaving in such a manner.

    3. EA*

      If you really can’t fire her – I would give her busy work.

      I don’t think its exactly right, but I saw this happen with bad interns in my internships. Really, you have given more chances/feedback then a lot of interns get. Most bad interns just don’t get a lot of work and don’t know why.

      1. Hazel Nut*

        Agreed. Have her answer phones, archive files, re-label files. Something that forces her up from the cube she is texting in. Have her take minutes in a meeting that doesn’t really need them. Stock the kitchen supplies, wipe down conference room tables. Sort and distribute the mail. Stock paper in all the printers.

        But this only if you really can’t just call the University and explain and then fire hire.

      2. Trout 'Waver*

        I’ve got 4000 totes and 1000 skids of material that could sure use a quality assurance assessment.

        Too bad my intern this summer is awesome and killing it on much more complex projects.

        1. Lora*

          I know, right? I have a sample refrigerator that needs cleaned out, a -80C freezer that needs defrosted, in process samples that need carried between buildings for analysis, empty chemical drums that need hauled down to the dock for collection by the hazardous waste people, pumps that need calibrated, drawings that need sent for CAD’ing, scripts that need documented for Automation, old equipment to scrap and data loggers to wire up.

    4. Cheese Sticks and Pretzels*

      Jeopardize the relationship with the university? I would think the university would be concerned they are sending sub-par interns to companies as this reflects poorly on their program. Maybe other readers can weigh in but I think for most internship positions there are more students then there are available internships.

      2. Paige Turner*

        Without knowing all the details, it might be worth considering if you actually want to maintain a relationship with this university if you’re not getting anything out of it.

    6. Sadsack*

      How would telling the University that their student is not working out jeopardize your relationship? How is your relationship benefitting anyone if the intern you hired is allowed to continue to be a poor worker? That doesn’t work for you and the student is not learning anything by not having any repercussions for slacking off.

      1. Jadelyn*

        If anything, the intern’s bad habits are being reinforced by a total lack of consequences for them, which sets her up for a nasty shock at her first real job.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          Right?

          What was the point of the PIP if it means nothing? And companies aren’t going to put you on one and then not follow through with the firing if you immediately slip.

    7. LQ*

      I am with everyone else that the company has this wrong. The university doesn’t want to screw this up. They need to know. You’re not going to come off poorly by saying, “This person did not work out.” Definitely need to talk to the contact there and push back on the idea that this will make your company look bad, that’s totally backward.

    8. Liz2*

      Is she able to do the work and simply not applying herself? Is she overwhelmed by fear of failure? What training did she get directly? I find a lot of places just throw interns and let them swim instead of actually being the intro session and transition they need.

      If your place is a swim place, then you have to let her go. But maybe even just a day of buddy hand holding can get her on the right track?

    9. Jessesgirl72*

      Is she the daughter of the University President or something?

      Call the intern coordinator at her university.

      If that doesn’t work and you want her to quit, could you implement, as part of her PIP, that she has to leave her cellphone in her car or locked in your desk drawer or something? I bet she’d quit within a day.

      1. Alli525*

        This is a GREAT suggestion – restrict web access to certain sites (this is SOP at Wall Street-type jobs, and elsewhere I’m sure) and have her submit her phone at the beginning of the day and again after lunch. I’ll admit to being a FB addict a couple years ago, and a new job at a company that restricted FB really improved my work ethic. Now, at a new job that doesn’t restrict access, I’ve kept my improved habits and rarely log into FB except on breaks.

        1. tiny temping teapot*

          If you can enforce turning over the phone – though even then, my wall street like job restricts access to a lot of sites and I can still find time to read AAM. :) (Or the archives of ask polly or captain awkward.)

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            But companies can make any unreasonable thing a condition of employment. So if you say to her “turn over your phone, or you can’t work her” she will very likely reply that she quits. And then she has quit, not been fired. ;)

            Or she’ll turn over her phone and maybe her performance will improve.

    10. kb*

      If the internship was arranged by the university and/or the intern is receiving class credit for the internship, is there a way you/someone at your company could reach out to the internship coordinator? I think the university is likely just as concerned about maintaining a relationship with your company as y’all are with maintaining one with them. They may be completely understanding if you need to let her go and/or be able to apply some pressure to her on their end (making it known her grade will suffer/ she won’t receive credit/ letting her knoe of she is fired, they won’t help her find awnew placement).

    11. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I agree with everyone else that you should reconsider your unwillingness to fire hire.

      But, a note: It’s very normal that it takes longer to supervise work done by an intern than it would to do it yourself. Of course you’re more skilled/faster/better trained than she is. That’s the point of an internship. So, while it sounds like she’s not good in other ways, you shouldn’t be holding this against her (or other interns).

      (This is why I always say no when my boss asks me if I want an intern. No thanks, I don’t have the capacity; interns make my work harder, not easier.)

      1. Sunflower*

        I understand it will take longer than it would for me. What I mean is I will send her something with clear instructions and she will send back work wrong or ask me questions that are clearly in the emails. For example,
        ‘Please register this list of people and send me an updated RSVP list once done’
        5 minutes later ‘These people aren’t on the RSVP list’
        ‘…that’s because you have to register them’

        I don’t expect work to be perfect. I make mistakes too and I understand. But when I write back and say ‘there are typos in this’, she needs me to point out the exact typos. I understand detail oriented, independent thinking work isn’t for everyone, which is why I realize this may just be a matter of bad fit for the role and why I was hoping she would have quit once she realized it wasn’t a fit for her.

        1. Nosy Nelly*

          I think this might be a mismatch in your expectations and hers–she is “trying out” the position by being an intern. She may well know it isn’t a fit, but wouldn’t quit because of the time-limited nature of internships. Now, it would definitely be best if someone knows the fit is bad would still try their best and take away some lessons, but I think quitting due to bad fit is unlikely.

          1. The OG Anonsie*

            Yeah, I’ve stuck out a bad fit internship (and I truly mean fit and not “wouldn’t let me play on my phone all day,” as these were the days before smartphones anyway) for a full academic year because I just needed to finish it and have the resume piece. Quitting an internship isn’t something most people will do.

    12. Rebecca*

      I’m puzzled by something. What is wrong with standing in front of her, saying “please put your phone away, and focus on work” and “you can use your phone during your break periods and lunch break, but not while you’re supposed to be working”. She needs to be held accountable!

      I’m firmly in the send her back, with a full explanation to the university as to why she’s being sent back. This might be the wake up call she needs.

      1. Trix*

        I’m with you. If they can’t actually fire her, they need to be saying something to her each time.

        “Hey Jane, you submitted this with XX errors. We talked about this, what’s going on?”

        “Hey Jane, off your phone please.”

        “Jane, it really sounded like you wanted to improve and make this a great experience, but it hasn’t seemed that you’ve changed anything. Can we figure out what you need to get to the level you agreed to?”

        1. MillersSpring*

          All of this, yes! Good grief, I would be speaking to that young lady every time.

          You need to ask her to think about what she wants from this internship:
          – Mentoring?
          – Office experience?
          – Industry experience?
          – College course credit?
          – Networking contacts?
          – Job references?
          – A full-time job after she graduates?
          – Technical training?
          – A portfolio of work samples?

          All of that is in jeopardy if she can’t focus on her work and its quality.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          This.
          You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
          You can start telling her that when you have to write a summary of her work here you are going to write about the high average of amount of mistakes per day and the constant phone use.

          It almost looks like if you made her surrender her phone during work hours and only give it back to her on breaks she might just quit the internship. But, as a “for real” suggestion you can start telling her that her constant phone usage WILL definitely get her fired at most places.

          Ideally, I think call the university and ask them how they handle situations like this.

          If it was my company and I sincerely believed we could not talk to the school about the problem, my next step would to be stop having internships. There is no point to bring in people if they are going to be allowed to mess up the company. No one is learning anything and the company is losing money. This is a lose/lose. You might want to consider telling your boss something like this.

      2. MuseumChick*

        I agree. Confront her as it happens. And when she submits subpar work send it back with clear instructions, After you find the third typo in a document she submits go to her and say, “This has multiple typos and grammatical errors. Work on it and re-submit it when it’s corrected. Going forward only submit work that is error-free.”

        If you see her on her phone or any non-work related website a clear, “We need you to focus on work. Please do not go on your phone, facebook, or anything else when not on your break.”

      3. NEW YEAR, NEW ME*

        What did her internship coordinator say? Do you call her out when you catch her texting/being on Facebook?

      4. Optimistic Prime*

        This was going to be my suggestion as well. If nothing else, an internship is a learning opportunity, and she needs to learn that her behavior is unprofessional and will be called out.

    14. EA*

      FWIW.

      I interned in state government in college. and we had an intern who was the nephew of a big deal lobbyist. He was a horrible intern, but they couldn’t fire him.

      So they gave his busywork, he was the envelope stuffer. He also struggled with this. He would fold a letter in half, and complain that it “didn’t fit” in the envelope. He also had an inappropriate sense of humor, and never came in time. At the end of it he was basically sitting at his desk doing nothing.

    15. Swimmergurl*

      Is is possible the intern has ADD or another condition that would make it difficult for her to focus and complete work accurately?

      1. Liane*

        Posting, “I think Person may have Whatever Condition” is something we don’t do here. It derails threads, most of us aren’t professionals–and worse, can make it harder on people who do have some medical conditions.

        1. Liane*

          I meant, “Most of us aren’t medical, psychology, or special education specialists” (Although we do have them here)

          Sorry

        2. Myrin*

          It’s also not constructive or helpful. It’s not like OP can say “Oh, you have a condition that makes it hard for you to spot typos? Well, I guess in this case we’ll just send out all our invoices typo-fied!”
          (And, as I understand the American laws from this site, if she did have such a condition, she would have to be the one to bring it up and ask for accommodation.)

          1. Natalie*

            Yes, and the accommodation would have to be “reasonable”, which in this case is a particular legal standard. To use an extreme example, you wouldn’t have to somehow accommodate a blind person to be a bus driver.

    16. Artemesia*

      I have run internships at Universities and was close to people in the program that did full time full semester internships. You don’t jeopardize the relationship with the University by holding students accountable. The next step here should be to sit down with the person who manages internships at the University and lay out for them your disappointment with this intern. The next step is to give the intern one more week to shape up, including depositing her phone with the supervisor when she starts work. Then fire her.

    17. Laura*

      Does she have structure?

      I work retail and previously did work study. Both had regular processes and tasks (not a set schedule) and that helps me.

      Is there stuff that needs to be done on the regular that she can do?

    18. Sibley*

      I’m in a similar boat with a young employee who used to be our intern and we hired full time. Except I’m not the manager, I have no control, and this person is a few years out of school and is not doing as well as the actual interns who are still in school.

      Make sure the individual is aware of the problems. Don’t sugarcoat it to be nice – it doesn’t work long term.

    19. Rainy, PI*

      Talk to the university internship coordinator IMMEDIATELY.

      And yes, you can and should fire her–it will not jeopardize your relationship unless the internship coordinator is very bad at their job.

    20. De Minimis*

      I can’t imagine a university would hold it against you for firing an intern, they are probably as interested in preserving the relationship as you are.

    21. Teapot PR consultant*

      I manage interns as part of my role, and I have never known the universities I deal with to be irritated if this happens.

      They recognise that internships are about prepring their students for employment: if those students need a sharp shock when the stakes are low they know the student will benefit later.

    22. FelineFine*

      Speaking on behalf of a university internship office – fire her. I would much rather you communicate with my office and (hopefully) hire our students again, than suffer for 4 months and never come back.

  4. Need a wardrobe reboot*

    I need advice about the clothes I wear for work. Particularly around switching from the business end of business casual to the more casual end.

    My old job was towards the business end of business casual – no suits, but no jeans either. I wore black dress trousers and some combination of black/grey/white blouses with cardigans. All stuff from the ‘workwear’ section of shops, not stuff I would wear casually.

    I started my current job about two years ago and kept on wearing the same clothes. It’s a similar job, in university admin. I found I was maybe a bit overdressed as the office tended to be more casual, like some people would wear jeans. But I didn’t bother changing my clothes because, well, I hate clothes shopping.

    However, over the past year or so the office had definitely shifted more casual. Now I am definitely feeling overdressed. The only other person who wears the same sort of ‘workwear’ clothes is my manager. A few people wear dresses but most people wear jeans. It’s not uncommon to see people in leggings and a tunic-type top. I’ve seen turquoise jeans and maroon jeans. Now my work clothes are starting to get a bit worn out and I’m also tired of wearing business clothes when it looks like I could be more casual, and wearing black/grey/white.

    In my personal life, I tend to wear blue jeans and a blue or navy t-shirt with a navy cardigan. Would it be appropriate to start wearing that sort of thing to the office?

    I’m aware I’m essentially switching a black, business uniform to a blue, casual uniform, but that’s sort of how my wardrobe has always been. I’m not good at mixing and matching colours and I’m not interested in fashionable clothes!

    If it sounds like my casual clothes are appropriate for the office, would it be okay to stick to all blue or better to mix in a few other colours? For example, using some of my existing black cardigans and pairing them with a black t-shirt or a coloured t-shirt and my blue jeans? Is sticking to shades of blue okay or weird?

    I am hopeless at clothes so thanks in advance for any help!

    1. Rincat*

      I think what you described sounds just fine – jeans, t shirt, cardigan. I often wear the same thing. I typically wear “nicer” tees though – like somewhat fitted tees in nice fabrics with different necklines, not just Hanes beefy tees. I also work in a university and this type of outfit fits right in.

      As for colors – same as above! I wear black, navy blue, and gray ALL THE TIME. I wear navy with black. Navy with other blues. I see nothing wrong or weird about this, but that’s also how I tend to dress.

      One thing you could do is throw in some university shirts. I avoid tees with any kind of graphic on them except for the university logo, but I feel like that adds a nice touch.

      I typically take whatever tops I would wear with business casual and just put some jeans under them instead of dress pants. I still like to look slightly more business so that I will look polished.

      I hope this helps! Good luck!

      1. Jadelyn*

        “I typically take whatever tops I would wear with business casual and just put some jeans under them instead of dress pants.”

        My workplace switched from business casual to casual last summer and this is exactly what I did. Most of my tops are exactly the same, I just wear them with jeans instead of slacks. I do wear some t-shirts, but as Rincat said, it’s the nicer type, usually in a better fabric than plain cotton, with little embellishments to make them look slightly fancier – like today’s shirt, which is one I picked up on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WW9HT93/

        So you can absolutely do the jeans/tshirt/cardigan thing! I wouldn’t worry too much about colors either – almost all of my wardrobe is black, blue, or grey, with occasional splashes of red and purple. The only comments I’ve ever gotten have been when I totally break from this pattern and wear a dress to work, which happens about 3 times a year if that.

        1. K.*

          That’s always been my approach to jeans Fridays, which have been common in my workplaces – business casual Monday – Thursday, jeans + business casual top and shoes on Fridays. (In summer I often wear dresses and skirts because they’re cooler than pants, so I might wear dresses and skirts all week long during a heat wave.)

          1. Jadelyn*

            LOL, I have a cart full of sundresses on Amazon right now for that exact reason. We’ve had multiple days of triple digit heat this past couple weeks! Ugh.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Updating a wardrobe takes time and money. If you’ve already got jeans, then start by mixing in a few tops. You can find nice things at Target, Kohls and the like that don’t require spending a ton of money. Looking well put together and comfortable in your skin doesn’t mean spending a ton of money. Plus, since basically anything goes with jeans, buying some tops with color/pattern is a good way to freshen your look but no go crazy with trends.

    3. DVZ*

      This might not be the advice you want, but I’d stick with more workwear-style if you can! Just because everyone else is casual doesn’t mean you can’t dress up a little, and if you maintain a good amount of workwear in your closet then you won’t need to do a total overhaul if you switch jobs and your new place is more formal, or even if the culture of your place starts to shift and it gets more formal, or you get promoted and want to look a little sharper, etc. It’s much, much harder to quickly pull together a suitable and affordable workwear wardrobe than the other way around!

      I am all for separating work and play clothes – don’t merge wardrobes!

      2. Bertha*

        She mentioned that her work clothes are worn out, so it’s possible that they are ready to be retired anyways! But certainly she could keep the ones that are in better condition.

      3. memyselfandi*

        I agree. I like the work/play distinction in my wardrobe. Plus, I just feel better about myself when I am in a business context if I am dressed for business.

      4. Happy Lurker*

        I am in a causal business, but still love my chinos. I wear jeans on Fridays and cheap old Navy (or Lands End wrinkle free) chinos all the other days. My button down and semi casual tee shirts are interchangeable. I am totally 75% more dressed up than everyone else, except the banker and the office supply sales guy that comes in.
        I don’t enjoy shopping as much as I used to so most of my clothes come from online retailers.
        Good luck with your wardrobe reboot.

    4. tswift*

      I would recommend checking out the university bookstore – I just bought a logo’d cardigan from my university’s bookstore which helps make me feel a little bit more professional and that I’m sticking to the dress code while also being comfortable and not too dressy.

    5. Lady Dedlock*

      I also work in a university setting where many people dress fairly casually, though a few people still dress business casual. Jeans, a t-shirt, and a cardigan would fit in just fine here (and actually is one of my frequently used outfit formulas).

      I suspect you would do just fine mixing some of your workwear in with your casual wear as you transition your style, assuming it doesn’t result in a radical mismatch in formality. You could easily pair nicer sweaters or button-downs with blue jeans, or, conversely, wear t-shirts and cardigans with work trousers.

      Your color palette also sounds fine to me. Most of my wardrobe consists of black, gray, navy, lighter shades of blue, and white. But dressing more casually also means you don’t have to stick with neutral, conservative colors. You could mix it up if you want to.

    6. the.kat*

      I think one of the things I’m best at is copying what other people are wearing. If you can find your “style icon” in the office you should either ask them where they got something or try to find other things like it. As far as your hatred of shopping, you might try to find a shop where you know what size you wear. Then, you can just pick up what you want online, try it on at home, and return it if you need to.

      1. Fluxinsight*

        +1 on finding a style icon. There’s always someone in the office who dresses appropriately for all occasions in an effortless way.

        1. a Potterhead for life*

          What I wouldn’t give to be that kind of person! I feel like I am literally 180 degrees from that.

      2. Turquoise Cow*

        I occasionally go shopping, and find a particular brand, style, and size that fits really well and looks nice. I wear it for a bit to confirm, and then order more online. Sometimes it’s cheaper and easier that way, and then you don’t have to go to the store, or, if you do, it’s a shorter trip.

    7. MechanicalPencil*

      I do a more complicated variation on your blue tones since I do what’s called a capsule wardrobe. It makes shopping simple; it makes getting ready simple. I feel like I’m a slightly more advanced adult. I also feel like I get more use out of my closet since everything gets worn more frequently instead of having that one top that I can only wear with that one other item. I’m not sure if this is something that could work for you, but I keep mine simple by having basic color bottoms that I match with solid color tops in a max of 4-5 colors. Even if you kept your slacks and did just basic color tshirts with a cardigan in grey or black, you could look more varied while still keeping it simple to track and rotate.

    8. Pup Seal*

      I work in a building that is super casual (I’m wearing flipflops right now). Your style is really up to you. In a casual office, people don’t seem to care as along you fit in. Your jeans sound fine, especially since everyone else is wearing them. I sometimes wear tank tops under a cardigan, and the cardigan actually makes it a bit more professional. I really love colors so I mix it up a lot, though most of my stuff are solids with not much going on.

      Is sticking to shades of blue okay? It sure is! I have a lot of blue, so there are days when I’m wearing all blue. I’ve always thought it looked fine, though maybe I’m weird. Really, the key is wearing appropriate clothes, so nothing with cleavage, no holes, no stains, no cut outs, etc. Just imagine what you would wear if you were getting dinner with grandma or parent in laws. Nothing fancy but nothing slobby either.

    9. Audiophile*

      My current employer is business casual – jeans, T-shirts, sneakers are all fine. As long as the attire is neat and clean, it’s considered work appropriate. I found out we can even wear shorts, as long they are not short shorts. Personally, I wouldn’t wears shorts to work.

      Right now, I have a few pairs of pants and some jeans that I wear during the week, though I prefer not to wear the blue jeans if I can avoid it.

    10. FDCA In Canada*

      Would you feel free with mixing blue jeans and work tops? Nicely-kept jeans and an office-appropriate blouse with a cardigan can look quite sharp without seeming too dressed-up or formal. There’s nothing wrong with staying on the more-formal side, but if you’d like to start wearing more T-shirts and cardigans, I would stick with “nicer” tees, generally ones made of heavier/more formal fabric, more fitted, maybe with embellishment if you like that, and stay away from graphic or kids’-style tees. It’s jeans Friday so right now I’m wearing jeans with a casual top, but the jeans are in good condition, the top is fitted and not graphic or too revealing, and a black cardigan over top with coloured flats. I’m bang on target in my office, comfortable, but I don’t feel like I should be out in the garden.

      1. Emily*

        I agree with this tip. In the past, I’ve done the same thing – that is, wear professional-looking tops with nice-looking jeans – and it can look very nice and presentable.

        The important thing is just that the jeans or pants are in good shape, with no holes / cut-off hems, et cetera.

    11. Betsy*

      I work in a university environment, and generally, we wear whatever we want. Any color, any style. As long as the clothes are in good repair and not inappropriately revealing (like, huge amounts of cleavage or underwear showing, or shorts so short you can see your butt, etc.), it should be fine.

      We have a few colleagues who only wear black, or black shirts and jeans. It doesn’t really matter. No one really pays attention. Some people like to dress it up a bit more with dresses and slacks. Personally, I like to mix it up. Sometimes I dress up and sometimes I dress down. Today I’m wearing light linen pants and a light, casual blouse (it’s HOT). Another day I might wear slacks and a cardigan, or jeans and a blazer, or a dress. In the winter I wear jeans and a pullover sweater every day.

    12. AvonLady Barksdale*

      If I were you (and I am not a fashionable person by any means), I would switch things up a bit. Yes, you can pair your black cardigans with jeans! You can also wear your black, gray, and white blouses with cardigans and jeans. But you can also try a navy t-shirt with a white cardigan, or a black cardigan with, say, a purple t-shirt. There are dozens of appropriate possibilities.

      I know you hate clothes shopping, but it might be worth a trip to Old Navy. Find a tank top or t-shirt you like and a cardigan you like, and check out their colors. A wardrobe like that, worn with jeans in a casual environment, doesn’t necessarily have to “match”. A yellow t-shirt with a navy cardigan, for instance, would be just fine, but you don’t have to go colorful. You can also get a pair or two of black jeans.

      1. Arjay*

        I knew if I read far enough, someone would say what I was thinking!
        Blue jeans are a neutral, so you can wear them with any colors you like. There’s nothing wrong with all blue, but branching out as AvonLady suggests can keep you looking fresher and sharper. Even in the blue family, teal and turquoise are almost universally flattering. Otherwise, there are the standby suggestions of a colorful shoe, scarf, or interesting piece of jewelry. Just a little something different can help to elevate the look.

    13. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      If you want to ease into the casual end of the pool, you can look for things like:

      1) Well-fitted, darker-colored jeans.
      2) Blouses, tucked or untucked. (Not t-shirts; that’s a VERY casual look.)
      3) Cardigans or casual-fabric blazers (not suit jackets, but ponte knits, or linen, etc.)

      1. KL*

        I was going to suggest this as well. We can wear jeans on Fridays in my office, and I usually go for dark wash jeans because the feel a little more dressy to me.

      2. HR Gal*

        +1

        I work at a university as well and my ideal work uniform is nice jeans and a silky top with a cardigan. The silky top keeps it looking professional and put together while the jeans dress it down and give it a casual vibe.

    14. EA in CA*

      I’ve mix my jeans with dressier t-shirts, blouses, and cardigans. Navy cardigans are a basic staple, so something that could easily work for your office setting. Just buy a few dressier tops and you’d be good to go. Target is good, Macy’s or JC Penny’s when they have sales. Or, like me, find one really nice top that you love and buy it in few different colours or patterns.

    15. Kelly*

      Have you looked at ThreadUp.com? They are a resale online shop, carry higher end brands etc. I HATE HATE HATE clothes shopping but I LOVE new clothes so I do most of my shopping online in general. Also, Amazon.com has some cute stuff and they have a great return policy.

    16. IvyGirl*

      Capsule wardrobes are great – http://www.wardrobeoxygen.com has great posts on this for different office environments, body types, and ages.

      There’s good ideas for silhouettes and accessories – changing out metals and scarves can really elevate your basics. Plus, it’s good to dress slightly dressier than most, even in a higher ed office setting. Sets you apart from the students. :-)

    17. Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way!*

      Here’s the question you need to ask yourself. Do you want to move up in the organization? If so, then you stated that you currently dress in a similar manner that your manager does. If you want to move up in the organization then you have to look the part. So update what you’ve been wearing (maybe add a few splashes of color or accessories for a different look) and you should be fine. Also feel free to give yourself permission to have a relaxed day on Friday and wear something a little less formal. I believe it will give you the best of both worlds! Good luck!

    18. Gail Davidson-Durst*

      By the way Amazon is planning to roll out Amazon Wardrobe, their answer to Stitch Fix a such. For Prime members, you get clothes shipped to you free, 7 days to try, free shipping back, and they only charge you THEN, after you decide what to keep!

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        HMMMM! Thanks for the tip! I use Stitch Fix and I really like the concept of it – stuff I would never buy myself but actually really like, and I don’t have to go shopping.

    19. Target Shopper*

      I have a small selection of cardigans (navy blue and grey are my go to, but I have some other “seasonal” colors to mix in, like white and bright green for spring/summer, orange/purple for fall and red for winter) and a bunch of slightly fitted v neck t shirts in lots of colors. They are all the same cardigans and same t shirts from Target. I wear them with jeans, dress pants, skirts, everything and dress it up/down with accessories. It is so easy. I know everything I own goes together and fits well and when a staple wears out, I know exactly how to replace it!

    20. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Branded items! That’s my favorite part of working at a University. Almost every event is an acceptable venue for a branded polo or cardigan. I haven’t bought a polo shirt since I started here yet I have over 25. I wear the polo with simple grey slacks, khakis, or jeans (blue, grey, or black). That’s pretty much my work wardrobe. When it’s cold (outside or inside with AC) I wear a branded cardigan or hoodie.

    21. Swimmergurl*

      I’ve never had a problem with looking nice, even if it means being slightly overdressed. I try to buy pieces that are classic, fairly neutral, and can be worn most of the year. Cardigans, dark wash jeans, and jackets are some of my favorites, and I try to buy a white shirt each season, since I can always pair a white shirt with something.

      I wouldn’t worry about being slightly overdressed, as long as you feel confident and put together. Everyone has days where they are sick or oversleep and don’t look their best, but I feel like showing up at the office, looking the best I can more often than not, only enhances how I’m perceived by my coworkers and how I feel about being at work every day.

    22. NaoNao*

      I think one key would be to elevate the quality of your items. So that if you’re wearing all one color or a mix of neutrals, each piece is of very high quality and in excellent condition.
      People who go towards the stylish end can sometimes get away with stuff that’s seen better days, is vintage or well worn, or is “rough around the edges” on purpose (frayed edged jeans, scuffed and worn boots, etc).
      But if your look is classic basics, I’d say invest in the highest quality you can afford and buy multiples.
      Merino wool wears well, washes well and looks great. 2-3 merino wool sweaters over button downs, turtlenecks, or henleys, worn with slacks and loafers, or with crisp dark jeans and slip on shoes like simple flats, would look great and be comfortable and casual.
      In summer you could switch that out for cropped skimmer pants and slip on flats or peep toe sandals, a short sleeved sleek and high quality knit tee, and a cardigan.
      As others have mentioned, accessories can really change your game. If you have an art or history museum in your town, often they have a *lovely* jewelry selection in the gift shop by local artists. It’s often an overlooked treasure trove of beautiful, high quality, and unique pieces that wear well and look “academic” and “upscale.”

    23. Mary (in PA)*

      Colorful accessories could also help. A plain top with cardigan and jeans can be jazzed up with a scarf. Plus you get bonus layering for unpredictable office temperatures.

    24. RB*

      All my ideas went out the window when I got to the part where you said, “I’m not interested in fashionable clothes.” But maybe part of it would still apply. I was going to say that this could be an opportunity to get more creative with your wardrobe. If that sounds absolutely detestable to you, what about a few more colors of tops or bottoms or a scarf or necklace now and then? Or change up your footwear a bit. I agree with another person who said that it depends on whether you are trying to move up in your job or not. As unfair as it is, women are still judged partly on appearances.

    25. Optimistic Prime*

      It probably depends on your office but it sounds like jeans and tshirt + cardigan are okay at your office. My office is very casual, so jeans and a t-shirt or button-front or a dressy shirt if I’m feeling fancy are my standard uniform.

      It’s fine to stick to one color scheme. My manager does that – she has a capsule wardrobe that is mostly black, with some shades of grey and white, and it looks fabulous.

  5. Your Weird Uncle*

    This afternoon I have a meeting with my boss, who is retiring in a few weeks, about adjusting my role to be equal with annoying coworker’s role. For background, when our predecessor left, her role was split into two. Annoying coworker was already at the department and took one role (teapot sales) which came with an informal but nifty ‘manager’ title and somewhat higher pay. I came into the department a few months later and took on the other role (teapot design), but never took on a manager title. This seems to be an informal title, as her official title is pretty generic, and I might have been able to but it felt presumptuous somehow.

    After having been here for nearly two years, it’s become clear to me that our roles are not a 50/50 split from our predecessor’s role. It’s more like 40% (her) and 60% (me). That hasn’t stopped annoying coworker from really embracing her ‘manager’ title, especially because her 40% role allows her the time to stick her nose into my job – she loves to think she’s my manager, even though the designation would really be more of a teapot manager (not manager of people).

    So I’ve had enough and am going to speak to our boss about how this is causing problems for me, and ask that my title also change to reflect that I, too, am responsible for teapot management. I’m not going to ask for more money (our boss has tried to get us more money recently and it’s been denied by upper management) but I would like her to agree that our titles be changed to reflect our roles more accurately. I’d like them to be ‘Teapot Manager – Sales’ and ‘Teapot Manager – Design’, and I think the time to do it is now, before my boss’s replacement comes on and the situation is even muddier.

    Much of this conflict is due to annoying coworker’s personality, as she likes to feel like she’s the one in charge, but I am trying to be as neutral about it as possible….even though I am at BEC stage with her by now! I have a list of ways this has caused problems for me in the past. Any other suggestions or advice?

    1. Rowan*

      I recently got my title changed to something with “manager” in it (although, like you, not a manager of people). I framed it as adjusting my title to better reflect my actual job duties, so it would be clearer to people both inside and outside of my organization what my role is. I was successful (although I had to keep nudging my manager to nudge HR; it took about six months!).

      But I wasn’t asking for more money, though, which may make it a harder sell. Can you decouple those requests? Make it clear that just the title change would be okay if you can’t get title change + $$$?

      1. Your Weird Uncle*

        That’s awesome, and congratulations! I think framing it that way is good – I’ll have to work to make it less about annoying coworker, and more about how my role is viewed, but I think that’ll go over better. (My manager knows that I struggle with her, and is aware of her, um, strong personality, but I always try to make sure I’m focusing on collaborating with annoying coworker as a teapot team member, not seen as butting heads with her.)

        As much as I’d love the pay bump, I’m not actually requesting one. It’s pretty unfair that she gets paid more and has much, much less work than I do (in addition to my teapot work, I also wear other hats like teapot purchasing, backup to the financial team, etc.), but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’m just one step behind her because she’s been at the department longer than I have. Sigh.

        1. MillersSpring*

          Asking for a title bump when the organization can’t/won’t give you a raise actually is a very common strategy. Good luck!

    2. a Potterhead for life*

      Ugh, that stinks. I totally agree with your thinking about getting the titles adjusted before the replacement starts.

      It sounds like the disparity in titles started as a fluke or oversight (but do you know this for sure? who defined the two titles?), but I’m wondering if over time it has actually morphed into what is for everyone but OP – ?

      I’m also wondering how the responsibilities of Sales and Design are each weighted by the company. Our company has two Operations Managers (resulting from a merger) and one makes $8,000 more than the other because she supervises the majority of the staff, with their positions otherwise having the same “weight” of responsibilities.

    3. Ama*

      Good for you for addressing this now and professionally with your manager. I had a similar problem with a coworker at another job (our complication was that she actually was supposed to delegate certain tasks to me, but she thought that gave her permission to micromanage my entire job, even tasks she had nothing to do with) and I failed to bring it up with my manager until I reached my breaking point and we had a blowout over one of those tasks that wasn’t hers — the only time I’ve ever raised my voice at work. I wound up in my boss’s office near tears because the confrontation upset me so much. My boss ended up taking care of it (she was very surprised when she realized how much authority coworker thought she had over me), but I still regret that I didn’t handle it at a point before everyone’s emotions got too involved.

    4. Your Weird Uncle*

      Update!

      Thanks everyone!

      I just got out of my manager’s office. She not only readily agreed to informally change my title to match my coworker’s, but she is also going to look into moving me up into the next staffing tier. It would be a salaried position, but more pay. She agreed that our two roles are parallel to each other and should be recognized as such.

      Yay!

      1. Green T*

        Congrats! This is great! You’ll have to update us on how your coworker took the news.

        1. Your Weird Uncle*

          Thanks! She’s on vacation for the next week, so I won’t find out for a while, heh.

      2. Hrovitnir*

        YES. Congrats! It makes me squirm reading things and not knowing if you’re going to get stuck being slightly more resentful because management won’t go along with your request.

        1. Your Weird Uncle*

          Thanks! Luckily my boss (although a bit flaky) is pretty reasonable. We’re going to miss her when she leaves!

  6. Ann O'Nemity*

    How does your company celebrate success? I think we don’t do a great job of this (too much focus on what didn’t work instead of what did) and I’m looking to make some changes where I can.

    1. Anon Accountant*

      Prior conpanies we’ve had a catered lunch or a cake. Or if it’s a small group then we’ve taken that person to lunch. Other departments used to give a small gift such as a nice coffee mug, small fruit arrangement, or other desk item.

      Please excuse bad phone typing and spelling.

    2. The Other Dawn*

      Same as Anon Accountant. My boss takes my department out to lunch after our regulatory exams and audits (which are always good). The nature of our work is such that we don’t do many projects, and our definition of “success” is a clean exam or audit.

    3. Morning Glory*

      One thing my org does that I like a lot is a peer award recognition program, with a posted list of nominees who are put in a drawing for a gift card. I think it’s often smaller things that cause large successes or failures, and those tend to be harder for managers to see. It also improves morale for projects that drag on because it doesn’t come at the end, it can be to celebrate a small success.

      This is in addition to larger, top down recognition programs for big wins, which typically happen months after a project is complete.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Oh, yes! I forgot that my company does that every year. Employees can nominate anyone and there are five different categories. The winners of each category (there are more than one in each that win) get to go to a fancy shindig with the CEO and the executive team; people love it.

        We also have a smaller-scale peer recognition process. People just on to the intranet, fill out a form, and it goes to the employee, his/her manager…and basically every other employee in the whole company. People tend not to do this much, because the recipient tends to get a lot of, “You rock!” or, “You’re so awesome!” comments as they walk around the building. It’s in good fun, but I can see why the recipient would get a little embarrassed. Plus the jokes gets old when you hear it 50 times in a day because everyone in the building saw it.

    4. the.kat*

      Handwritten thank you card from higher ups (CEO, VPs, etc.) and bonuses or gift cards if possible. Public recognition if it’s that kind of activity.

    5. kavm*

      My company does a catered lunch or “ice cream social” type of thing. I’ve been trying to convince them to buy company-branded mugs for everyone to switch it up, but so far that’s a no-go. Personally I think something like a mug is nice because you keep it and have it forever. Lunches are nice sometimes but I personally don’t really like the caterer they choose. Last week we had a grill-out though (during work hours – for lunch), that was fun!

      1. Liz2*

        Yeah but unless you are starting your first apartment, you already have all the mugs you ever need and most people have their preferred happy mug/water bottle. Rather than a mug, perhaps a very nice insulated lunch bag to everyone.

        1. kavm*

          I was thinking it would be a mug kept at work since we have a coffee/tea station here. But I like the lunch bag idea as well!

          1. Liz2*

            Yeah but a few things to consider:
            – People are picky about their beverages and containers
            – Marketing pieces like that are rarely best quality unless you really pay, so again people will use their preferred drinking cup instead
            – Have to make sure all new hires get them as well
            – Where will they go? Are you ready for the inevitable extra dirty cups left in the sinks and counters?

            The idea of having a nice branded USEFUL item is a good reward, I just find too many downsides versus other options.

      2. Alli525*

        I agree with Liz2 on most swag – my old office had a bunch of logo mugs in the kitchen cabinet, so we could use those or a disposable cup, but I have no use for most branded swag at home. That being said, our office was always FREEZING, so the fleeces they gave us were fantastic and universally adored.

        One year, they announced around the holiday season that they were planning a company-wide softball game, and we got baseball hats and tees (hats were just branded, tees had the logo on the front and our last name and a number – assigned alphabetically by last name – on the back). I loved these too and still wear the tee frequently despite no longer working there.

    6. Liz2*

      Success in what sense, on what level? What do your people feel valued by? Almost no one turns away a free half day off, but companies rarely want to incentivize like that.

    7. Bend & Snap*

      We have a formal reward & recognition portal. Awards can be peer or manager nominated, there’s a series of questions to determine the impact of the work and thus the level of award, then they go through management and budget approval. If they’re approved there are levels with corresponding dollar figures. I think it ranges from a couple hundred to a few thousand.

      It’s a really well done program. My last company had “kudos” which meant you got a star stuck to the wall with your name on it (like kindergarten) and then there was a prize drawing once a month for everyone who had been called out, and the prize was nominal.

    8. Stop That Goat*

      The last company I worked for had something called ‘Applause-O-Grams’. It was a web form where you chose an employee and had room to make a comment on the form. After submission, the recipient, their manager and one of the executive assistants received an email with the information.

      There was more than just this but it was a quick and easy way to shoot a compliment to someone while also notifying their manager and the EA who gathered statistics for other employee awards. I believe the top recipients also received some recognition at a yearly event as well.

    9. Shark Whisperer*

      Company-wide, the recognition programs tend to be pretty political and ultimately meaningless, but within our department I think we have a number of great programs. First is what we like to call the “shout out board” which is literally a board where you can put up notes thanking people or celebration peers’ accomplishments. About once a month the shout outs are collected and put into the employees personnel file and are often used in performance evaluations. We also have a peer-nominated award that we give out once a year. We read the winning nomination at the christmas party, but everyone who was nominated gets a copy of the nomination form about them so they can read the nice things about them. I believe the winner gets a gift card and a pin.

    10. Jesmlet*

      We have a yearly progress meeting that usually comes with at least one public announcement of role adjustment and public Employee of the Year award/bonuses which are often split between top performers. It’s not perfect but it does feel nice when it’s you.

    11. lemonjelly*

      My current job and my last job have similar programs where every quarter there are a handful of awards that managers can nominate people for. The categories vary, like best service, tech innovation, stuff like that, and each one comes with a couple hundred dollars attached. It’s nice, and people definitely like getting money. It seems better received at current job, at my last job the company was known for paying below market rates for several departments, and some people felt like the awards were an insulting attempt to mollify hard feelings about being underpaid. I didn’t necessarily agree, and it is rather indicative of larger morale problems there, but it was a perception I heard from several others.
      A couple jobs ago, the company had an online system that was a bit different, it was a peer recognition system (but managers or whoever could also do it) where you could go in and basically just publicly recognize someone for whatever you wanted. There was no nomination involved, it was much lower stakes and generally used for smaller things, but any time you recognized someone their boss (and maybe boss’s boss too, don’t remember) would automatically get notified. Each recognition was saved and counted as a point, and the points could be used to purchase things from a small catalog. It was just stuff like mugs, company shirts, maybe some smaller techy gadgets, but it was still nice. Typing it all out it sounds a little silly and like it could be easily abused, but it was actually really well received by everyone I ever talked to about it and as far as I know never abused (and this was a Fortune 500 company with 50k+ employees). Having people’s boss automatically notified was really great, and the online portal itself was convenient and easy enough to use that it really encouraged people to recognize each other for even smaller stuff, like someone going out of their way to help you meet a deadline or jumping into a project they didn’t have to or whatever.

      1. Swimmergurl*

        At the companies where I’ve worked, I’ve found the management struggles with articulating goals and then struggles to identify which behaviors/accomplishments to incentivize or reward. It’s also important to know your audience. For example, factory workers often love the games and prizes that office workers often find tacky.

    12. Rat in the Sugar*

      We don’t really have celebrations, per se, but if you’ve been busting your butt on something that’s really important, they’ll have a little meeting with you, boss, grandboss, and maybe managers from other departments you’ve helped where they give you a little certificate thanking you for your hard work (with specific wording on what you did, not just “Good Job!”) and a spot bonus–a Visa gift card around $50-$200, depending on what you did. Then all the managers in the meeting go around and say a bit about where they noticed you going above and beyond on a project, and the positive impact it had on the company and other employees. It’s pretty nice and very straightforward.

    13. Ribbon*

      Working in government, we don’t do bonuses or gifts for recognition. But one of the simple things our agency recently started was to Or it a recognition jar where staff can drop a quick note of thanks or kudos to other staff. Then, management reads them aloud at our monthly staff meetings, and there’s an opportunity to also give verbal thanks/kudos as well. It’s a surprisingly simple thing but everyone in our office feels good and likes a little public attaboy/attagirl.

    14. Chaordic One*

      Back at Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd. this was something that they generally handled badly. Whenever I or my department had a noteworthy success there was usually no one there to notice. Sometimes there’d be a gesture, such as a lunch, as a way to thank me or the department, but a fair amount of time has passed and by then we had moved on and pretty much forgotten about what the accomplishment was as we were up to necks with different alligators and worried about taking time away from the current crisis.

    15. VioletEMT*

      On a team level, it’s the managers who decide when there is thing worth recognizing and there is usually a cake or ice cream.

      Every year, my team’s managers put together an event for us called “Teapot Services Rocks,” where they cater in lunch and celebrate each individual team members accomplishments, both they cater in lunch and celebrate each individual team members accomplishments, both for/with their clients, and the things they do outside of work that are unique and fun. E.g., Jane rescues greyhounds, Mary is training for a triathlon, and Fergus does competitive ballroom dance.

      Additionally, we have various levels of peer to peer recognition. You can nominate someone for a number of team awards, which are approved by a committee and given out at our division meeting. You can also give someone a “Good Work Coupon,” which is peer to peer and does not require approval, though the recipients manager is notified. They get the good work coupon that states what they did which is peer to peer and does not require approval, though the recipients manager is notified. They get the good work coupon that states what they did that was helpful, e.g. Wakeen stepped in to help one of Susan’s clients with rapist assemblymen when Susan was swamped because another of her clients had just had a massive spout upgrade project. Walking gets to redeem that coupon with one of the admins, and pick from a box of snacks (Doritos, Oreos, king-sized candy bars). So you can reward your colleagues with chocolate without ever having to go to the store.

  7. Susan*

    Quite a few people in my department have their resumes saved to the shared drive. I’ve been looking at them to try to get ideas for my resume, but they are just bad! Most of them start with an objective. Some list names and contact info of references. Many people have a whole section devoted to “skills” or “key words,” where they simply list a bunch of vague skills (such as “Administration”, “Troubleshooting”, “Wide Range of Computer Skills”). One guy with a 3-pager uses most of the first page for a two-paragraph, wall-of-text narrative of his career. Another lists her social security number and date of birth on the header. Very few of them even attempt to list any achievements in addition to the list of job duties.

    It makes me wonder: if bad resumes are the norm at this company, could having a good resume actually be a disadvantage? If someone submitted a good resume (by AAM standards), would these people think, “Wow, this idiot has no idea how to write a resume. She didn’t even include an objective! And she just lists a bunch of accomplishments for each job, so I can’t even tell what her actual duties were.”?

    The people whose bad resumes I found include someone who has the job I want, the hiring manager for the job I want, and people who previously had the job I want until they got promoted again. Apparently, their style of resume worked for them, and I guess that’s what they consider a “good” resume, so if I am applying for a promotion at this company, would I be better off making my resume worse to make it more like the ones they’re used to seeing, and the ones that have worked for others in the past?

    1. Lora*

      How old are the resumes? I mean, if this was their resume submitted in 1995 and they haven’t bothered to update it much, then yeah, it’s going to suck.

      Also, are these their resumes or did they have to be formatted to the company format? Had a job once where our resumes were sent to HR for re-formatting to fit their database and the results were NOT good. Like, putting the wrong number of years of experience, if they didn’t know what a thing was they left it off, if a thing was on everyone else’s resume who was in my group they would put it on there even though I never did it because they thought I must have forgotten, they added objectives and stuff at the top, just bad all around.

      1. Susan*

        Some of them are a few years old, but most are pretty recent, and they are in many different formats, so it doesn’t look like there’s a standard company format or they’ve been re-formatted by anyone else.

    2. Pearly Girl*

      No no no. Don’t dumb down your resume because of what you see on the server.

      You do you, and rise above the rest.

    3. overeducated*

      I think occasionally specific organizations can have non standard styles, could yours be one? A relative was trying to help me get into a company a year or so ago, and he and his internal contact actually guided me on restructuring it as a functional resume. I was horrified but that’s what the hiring manager wanted!

      1. Decima Dewey*

        Earlier this week a patron asked me for a second computer session so he could print out his resume. I gave him a second session, explaining that the general rule is one turn per day. After I helped him print, I saw his resume. It was a gmail post (not even an attachment), with patron’s name in large letters, plus a few bullet points.

        Good luck job hunting, kid. You’re going to need it.

    4. a Gen X manager*

      When I started my HR responsibilities I was SHOCKED by how terrible the majority of resumes are!

    5. CAA*

      The vast majority of the resumes I get for software dev roles are lousy. If I didn’t hire people who have lousy resumes, I would always have a lot of unfilled positions. So yes, bad resumes do work. But they waste my time and make me read between the lines to figure out what they’re trying to communicate, and it’s entirely possible that I’m missing out on interviewing some great people I’d really want to hire because I just can’t see that from their resumes.

      On the other hand, my own resume doesn’t follow all of Alison’s recommendations. I think it’s pretty good and it’s worked very well for me (my last two job searches took 7 weeks and 2 weeks, and I got over a 50% interview rate last time). I just try to keep in mind that the job of a resume is to communicate necessary information to the hiring manager and I try to think about what I’d need to know if I were on the other side of the desk.

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      At my old workplace, we were hiring someone for a very high-up position (the kind where you have a whole search committee and not just a hiring manager). The candidate we ended up hiring had several egregious typos in the cover letter. It would be ridiculous for this candidate to think “Oh, I got the job by putting typos in my cover letter” when the candidate actually got the job despite the typos. There was a long discussion among folks about whether to even consider the candidate, since there were such egregious typos.

      The same thing may have happened at your company. Those people who got hired with those horrible résumés may have been hired in spite of the horrible résumés and not because of them: “Ugh. Can you believe she put an objective in there? Well, she still has good work experience. We should probably interview her.”

      Of course, there’s the possibility that your particular company is just odd and likes to hire against common practice and common sense, but I don’t think you should try to make your résumé intentionally bad.

      1. Susan*

        Well, that is a good point if I don’t know the opinions of the people who are reviewing the resumes, but I am planning to apply for a promotion in my department, and I know who the hiring manager is, and I’ve seen her resume. Presumably, she thinks her own resume is good, right? If her idea of a good resume is one that has an objective and a list of key words like “Wide Range of Computer Skills”, is she going to think mine is bad because I don’t have those?

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I mean it’s possible… but sometimes people also judge others differently than they judge themselves. “Do as I say, not as I do.”

          It’s very possible, from a candidate perspective, she thought “Wide Range of Computer Skills” would be a great way to represent herself, but then, as a hiring manager, she might look at someone else’s résumé and think “Why would someone think that’s useful information?”

        2. KatiePie*

          It’s always possible she’s just never seen a decent resume. Maybe she’ll see yours and think, “Wow, that’s great! Concise, clear, informative. Maybe I should think about redoing mine in a similar vein.”

    7. Princess Carolyn*

      It’s possible, but I think it’s more likely that people with bad resumes often get hired because their experience is good. Your HR probably got enough information to think these people might be qualified, brought them in for an interview, and determined they were a good fit. Sometimes a poorly marketed product still sells, you know?

    8. Trout 'Waver*

      Many people get hired for reasons other than their resume.

      Also, as anyone who has had to screen resumes can attest, the overwhelmingly vast majority of resumes are terrible.

    9. Caledonia*

      I got a c.v this week (in the UK) that mentioned had successfully ran a 5k and married with two children (a male).

      This had nothing to do with what information I needed (university admin) to see if he was suitable for a degree programme

    10. Jennifer Walters*

      This happened to me! My husband was asked to recruit for his old job through a specific alumni group, so he did and all resumes and cover letters went through him to give to the actual recruiter. A lot of these people are kids fresh out of college, so I was curious to see some of the resume formatting. There was one with an objective and I, a faithful AAM follower, went “Oh no! Someone needs to tell that person that objectives aren’t a thing.” And my husband, to my horror, went “I think objectives are great! I got that job with one!” Granted, I’m a lawyer and he’s a TV writer (formerly production assistant) so maybe it’s an industry thing?

      For you, I think keep your resume the way you like it and know that your experience will carry you through? Especially if all those styles of resumes are similar, you’ll stand out, and hopefully in a good way.

    11. Julianne*

      I also recently had the opportunity to view some resumes for other employees at my organization (we had to do PD portfolios and give feedback to other participants), and…wowzers. Not one was less than 3 pages, and several began with 2 or more pages of solid text. It definitely also made me feel like my resume is an outlier (although who knows, maybe my cohort just all need AAM…).

    12. Indecisive Bookkeeper*

      I’ve actually kind of wondered this. Like some of the people reading resumes haven’t taken an updated class on jobs or anything since the 80s or 90s. So what they think should be in a resume and what AAM think could be totally different so is my good aam RESUME going to be trashed b/c in their opinion it’s not formatted correctly?

      Heck I went to a resume workshop at my local state ran job search place and the advice they gave was AWFUL! They told us to use objectives and all sorts of outdated stuff.

    13. Anony Mouse*

      I can’t really comment much on the rest, but I see putting an objective on your resume is advised against here (and wouldn’t the cover letter cover what an objective would?). But I’ve been told by other people who’ve looked over my resume that I should be including an objective. I’m confused (and maybe some of those people were given similar advice?).

  8. Scientist in the making*

    Hi everyone! I have a question on PhD degrees on resumes:
    In an industry-targeted (non-academic) resume, do you list a PhD both under „education“ and „work experience“ or do you only mention it under one of these headings? I’m a PhD student in Europe and here we are considered full-time employees and not students, but of course the degree also justifies putting it under „education“. Many people seem to use both sections: under „education“, they list the degree and the thesis title; under „work experience“, they list their accomplishments. I would find it strange to list job accomplishments under „education“, but at the same time it feels weird to omit a PhD from the „education“ section. However, it seems redundant to list it in both places.
    Any advice?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      In the US, your PhD should not be listed under your work experience. If you were a teaching or research assistant while getting that degree, then that would go in work experience.

      1. Lora*

        +1. Also any postdocs / internship type of deals are Work Experience, as are collaborations with industry if they were pretty involved – you would just list the project similar to a job, like this:

        2001 – 2010 Jupiter Monolith Expedition, Floyd Lab collaboration with Leonov flight: HAL9000 troubleshooting, Discovery expedition, Bowman communication assistant. Performed Discovery booster fuel calculations, managed communication channels with Monolith.

    2. Simone R*

      In academia in the US, you would list your PhD under education as PhD, Teapot University,2017 and then under work experience add Graduate Student, Smith Lab with your project(s) listed. Not sure how much that differs from European industry resumes though!

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        As a small tweak, I would recommend “Graduate Research Assistant” or “Research Assistant” rather than “Graduate Student.”

    3. puncata*

      At least in my field (biology) if applying to an industry related to your PhD, it would be appropriate (and expected) to list under both under the education and work experience similar to what you indicated. This is because your “career” is considered to have already started, your graduate work is relevant to potential jobs.

      In some cases if you are applying for a “technical job” then it can be also appropriate to “name drop” your supervisor’s name (e.g. if they are well-known in their field)

      For example (just to give an example of types of things that would be pertinent)
      Work Experience:
      PhD
      -developed new assay leading to 25% increase in yield
      -managed 4 field assistants , coordinating sampling schedules and field maintenance.

      under education
      PhD (thesis title), university, year granted

    4. Emilitron*

      Agreed with others, the work experience section includes “Graduate Research Assistant” or whatever the job title was associated with your income or fellowship, along with what types of work you did and accomplishments. It’s not redundant to list the degree under education, because you could spend a few years as a research assistant and not in fact get the degree, so of course you need to say you have it. But “Education” is generally a compact bullet list – school, degree, date. Possibly dissertation title and advisor but possibly not, depending on relevance to the job search you’re doing.

    5. GermanGirl*

      For applying in Europe, I wouldn’t do separate sections for work and education at all. Just lump them together into one (reverse-) chronological section. People will assume that your PhD included a research and/or teaching position unless you tell them otherwise or forget to mention your achievements in that job.

      For applying in the US, where doing a PhD is not automatically associated with a research/teaching job, it might be prudent to follow Simone R’s advice.

    6. Epeeist*

      I did mine a little differently. I had three sections: Education, Research Projects (or Experience, I forget which), and Work Experience. Education was the very brief degree/university/research topic, Research Projects was where I described my thesis projects and some of the undergraduate research I had done, and Work Experience was (obviously) where I put things like internships and the other jobs I’d had. I did have a lot of work experience coming out of university, though, and I wanted to highlight that, which is why I went with the three sections.

    7. Thlayli*

      Also EU. When I was fresh out of my PhD I had education at the top of my cv with the PhD first and list of accomplishments under it then degree and info about the degree. Then I didn’t mention it in my work experience section.

      Now that I’m a good few years on I just have key qualifications near the top one line each – PhD is a one-liner in there. Then in the work experience section I have it listed in reverse date order so the PhD appears there too with the relevant accomplishments.

    8. Optimistic Prime*

      I only list my PhD under education…it’s not really considered work experience here in the States.

      You can list your research assistant position under work experience and describe your duties, but I really only did that for my first out of school job, and at this point I de-emphasize it.

      1. Thlayli*

        I know the American PhD programme is different from the EU one (I believe you guys attend some sort of classes) but surely you must do some sort of research to get a PhD? It can’t all be classes? Wouldn’t the research be of sufficient standard to count as work experience?

        Not suggesting you should go against norms for writing resumes / cvs in your area, just genuinely wondering why it isn’t considered relevant work experience. In Europe you have to do a research project and it has to be original research i.e. No one else can have published the same research. That’s for STEM subjects.

        For arts subjects you have to write a massive thesis on a topic no one else has considered before, though I dunno if that counts as “research” but I would have thought for a job relevant to the topic it would still count as relevant work experience e.g. For a job as a writer writing a thesis is a relevant piece of work.

        1. OES*

          In the humanities in the U.S., research is both part of education and part of work; since Ph.D. candidates are students (enrolled in an institution), the research done for the degree comes under education. Anyone who understands what a Ph.D. entails knows the dissertation research must be original, but it’s the categorization of the candidate as a student – doing original work, but still under the mentorship of a faculty member – that determines how the CV is arranged.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          My PhD is in the social sciences (psych) – I have my degrees earned listed under Education and I have Research/Teaching Assistant under [Work] Experience*. We had the same criteria for earning the master’s and doctorate as Thlayli describes – unique research project written up as a thesis or dissertation and defended before a committee, in addition to passing other required milestones and taking required classes.
          * On my full length CV, I still list out specific accomplishments from my RA/TA role, like teaching, mentoring, and publishing, which are somewhat separate from earning the degree. But on my shortened and updated resume (2 pages max), my RA/TA work is now one entry under “Other relevant experience” because my most recent job (post-PhD) had 12 years of research-related accomplishments that I prioritized. I am specifically looking at research jobs so it’s relevant.

  9. Anon Accountant*

    I had an interview at a nonprofit that was really strange. The executive director was argumentative and there were red flags. They sent me a rejection this week and I’d found another person who interviewed there also and she said “they want you to print money to make payroll and budget”. Definitely was a relief to be turned down!

    I posted my resume on Monster.com and have gotten recruiter’s calls through the roof. Now I’m actually getting hopeful instead of crying every day because of my job.

    Maybe posting resumes on Monster is a good resource for other job seekers?

    1. Me*

      I don’t know–I tried that once and only got crappy scam emails. Of course, I had fewer skills and less experience then, so perhaps that made a difference. But I’m not getting recruiter calls from LinkedIn either. Maybe I just suck!

      Good luck, though–it sounds like it’s working for you!

      2. Anon Accountant*

        Thanks! I’d tried Linked In and got nothing useful. I was clear where I was at and my geographical preferences but places from Several states away were contacting me, plus were clear they wouldn’t have covered a relocation and in the first contacts with a few they stated “before proceeding we aren’t responsible for interview travel costs and candidates pay those themselves”. What a waste of time.

    2. a Potterhead for life*

      I’ve twice tried Monster and it resulted in endless spam. I’ve done better with Indeed.

    3. Dr. Johnny Fever*

      Spamcruiting – how often do you get hit and do you find it annoying, amusing, or something else?

      I was hit three times this week by the same recruiter. The third email had the subject, “Yes I am persistent.” By that point, I’m thinking a better subject would be “Yes, I am crazy pants.” Each email had basically the same content. And the job was a step down from what I do now.

      I don’t have a resume out there, just my LinkedIn profile, which tells clearly what I do with a description (not resume like, but more casual).

      Do these spamcruiters find you?

  10. Aquafina*

    How can I handle a company owner (Fergus) that is always making me feel embarrassed? We have meetings with another owner (my boss) and these 2 do not get along great. I’ve been told Fergus doesn’t like me because I’m an extension of Boss. I could be simply looking at Fergus, acknowledging what he is saying, and he’ll say “OH that face you’re making!” Maybe I’m making expressions of concern from our discussion but it can’t be anything crazy, I’m decently Botoxed! He comments on my face every meeting and it’s embarrassing. Sometimes the office gets hot, so he’ll open up the door and yell “Airing out, Aquafina is farting in here!” Or he’ll walk my office and say “Stinks back here Aquafina!”
    Like wtf? I definitely don’t smell bad or over-contort my face. He’s just a jerk. Should I avoid looking at him at meetings and just look down, taking notes so he can’t claim anything about my face?

    1. Jessica*

      Wow, he is awful! I would consider looking for a new job as I don’t think any change in your behavior will stop this obnoxious bullying. He will just find something else to criticize you about.

    2. Nea*

      $5 says that if you do look down, Fergus will loudly complain that you’re sulking. Or hiding a zit. Or whatever, because I can guarantee you, you are not going to win with him.

      Which is why I’d start with your Boss if you have a good relationship – it’s Boss’s job to protect Boss’ reports.

    3. Liz2*

      If these are meetings with other attendees, you could try the “I don’t know what you mean, can you explain it?” playing dumb thing so he has to be accountable to what he is saying in front of others. Or even “OK now that’s out of your system for another week, let’s move onto business.”

      But being the grandboss means he could retaliate, so you should start job searching yesterday. Anyone who feels it’s ok to bully like that already is not someone to bother with.

        1. Aquafina*

          They are both owners and peers.
          Nea is probably correct, if I don’t make eye contact he will likely say, “Aquafina is taking notes or writing a novel…”

          We meet so infrequently, I hadn’t considered this a reason to leave. But I do want to nip it in the bud so I’m not dreading our meetings.

          1. Artemesia*

            The other owner should be able to do something for you here. When my mother (like 75 years ago was a nurse in an office, one of the doctors constantly sexually harassed her finally cracking a rib when he pushed her against a wall. (in those days nurses were treated like dirt by many doctors and women never had firm ground to stand on) One of the other partners in the firm made it clear to this guy that he was not to touch her ever again and did it forcefully enough that this guy didn’t bother her after that. The other owner is in a position to back this twit down. If he won’t then move on when it works for you.

            And in the meantime ‘he who smelt it dealt it’ — everyone knows that.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Wow. How grammar schoolish of him.
      Since he does not like your boss, my suggestion to you is to tell your boss that Fergus is taking his contempt for your boss out on you.

      I hope you can find ways to stop letting his behavior embarrass you, it’s his embarrassment to wear not yours.
      Continue looking at him and continue being your normal professional self. It sounds like he feels stuck that he has to work with your boss.

      Depending on your setting, I might be tempted to open the door at the start of the meeting as preemptive strike. I might say, “I don’t know if anyone is passing gas in here but it seems to be an on-going complaint. We seem to need this door open.” That ends the door comments.

      As far as the face comments, I’d find something reassuring to say. “Fergus, I am just concentrating that is all.” Figure out what you want to say. Make it your go-to statement, keep saying the same thing over and over. You want something that calms the situation down. If you try saying this and he has a comeback, then start thinking how you can refine your sentence.
      If you can reach a place where you can shrug and react blandly, that is your best bet. Meanwhile, keep talking to your boss about what is going on here.

    5. Chriama*

      I’d say you need your boss’s support and permission to push back with him.

      “Oh, that face you’re making!” Look at him and then around the room with a half-bemused, half puzzled expression. “What a weird thing to say. This is my normal face, Fergus.” Or if you have a real concern, bring it up “I’m actually wondering how you plan to keep the teapots from melting if you make them out of chocolate but don’t insulate them with a candy glaze.”

      “Stinks back here!” Look up, confused. “Huh, that’s weird. It was fine before you came in here.”

      “Aquafina is farting in here!” “That’s actually the sweat from 6 people trapped in a room with no circulation. If it bothers you, maybe we should look at getting air conditioning put in.”

      Basically, treat him like a loud and inappropriate child. Bonus points if you manage to look embarrassed *for* him. I’m positive that looking down or trying to ignore him will only egg him on. He’s taking it out on you because he can’t take it out on your boss, which is why you need your boss’s backing to do anything.

    6. Swimmergurl*

      Fergus’ behavior reflects poorly on him, not on you. Other people in your organization will recognize that too. Unless his complaints are regarding your work performance, I would ignore it and try to rise above the pettiness.

    7. FiveWheels*

      For fun, how about respond to every single comment with “I don’t understand what you mean. Can you repeat that?”

      Do it on a loop, and return awkward to sender.

      1. OhNo*

        Also an option: “I’m sorry, did you say something? I was busy.”

        It sounds like he thinks he’s being funny (he’s not, for the record), and nothing kills a joke like having to explain it or repeat it.

    8. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      If you are confident that your boss will have your back and this bully has no ability to fire you, and you can manage to make it sound somewhat genuine, laugh…laugh laugh laugh every time he says something stupid like this. Laugh for an awkwardly loud and long time, like you just can’t stop ’cause he’s sooooooooo funny. He’s trying to irritate you, so take that away from him. It’s embarrassing to be laughed AT. Once the reward is gone, he’ll probably avoid you. What’s he going to say? “That wasn’t meant to be funny” because usually a bully uses “it was just a joke” to try and justify their offensive comments.

    9. Nieve*

      With the farting comment, you should try saying ‘Hey, I know its you whos farting, its rude to try blame it on other people!’ hahaha

  11. bassclefchick*

    You guys! This has been a GREAT week! I had 1 in person interview on Tuesday (job A), a phone interview yesterday(job B), and have another interview this afternoon (job C)!!

    I got the call this morning with the offer for job A!!! The hiring manager said it’s not a done deal until I hear from HR, but I got it!!

    Now I can finally put last year (fired twice in 6 months) behind me. Though I want all 3 jobs, I do want to go for the job C interview because that one is my 1st choice.

  12. Newbie*

    I’m just starting to job search but I’m concerned about what I’ll do at the references stage. I’m 4 years out of college and have had 2 jobs since graduating (currently employed at my 2nd job). I have a reference from my first job and one from a manager at my current company who left, but I don’t have a 3rd one.

    Do most companies require 3? Do you think explaining my newness to the workforce and offering 2 would ever be acceptable? I’ve heard of people offering their current employer as a reference after an offer has been made, is that something I should consider? Or do I suck it up and give a reference from some college summer job in an unrelated field, or try to see if any of my professors remember me?

    I don’t have any other references from my first job as an option (it was a very small company; the CFO is my current reference, and the CEO is too volatile for me to risk using him) and my current job is not the kind of place where I could let them know I’m looking to use them as a reference and not be let go.

    1. tswift*

      I only had two jobs out of college as well when I applied for a job that asked for references – I used two people from my first job. One was my manager, and the other was a colleague that, while she didn’t manage me, she was responsible for giving me a lot of my work, so it worked because she was able to speak to the quality of my work. Not sure if you have something available like that?

    2. KL*

      Do you have a coworker you can ask? As long as you have at least one supervisor in the mix, it’s fine to ask coworkers.

      1. CAA*

        Agree. Coworkers are totally fine when there just aren’t enough managers in your work history. A professor is o.k. if it’s someone you actually worked with (i.e. you were an undergrad assistant in her research lab), but by this point in your career I wouldn’t call a reference who was just a professor that gave you a grade in her class.

      1. CAA*

        It needs to be somebody she has worked with or for. Personal references are just not done in most professions.

      2. Not a Galway Girl*

        In addition to work supervisors, I’ve used coordinators from volunteer positions and professors as references when I was new to the workforce. My husband is a prof and is usually very happy to act as a reference for his students. Do you have any contacts like that who could help?

    5. SaraV*

      Just this week I had to provide 5(!) references before I have a 15 minute phone interview this coming Tuesday. I only had three lined up. Two of the references had to be supervisors/managers of some sort. I’m working two part time jobs right now, and while one knows I’m job searching, I’m trying to keep the other one in the dark the best I can. So, I had to use a coworker I trusted at “dark” part time job as a reference.

      All of this to say! This company asked for relationships in a dropdown menu on-line, and professor was one of those listed. I’d say as long as you’re 5 or less years out of college, a college professor/advisor would be perfectly acceptable as a reference.

    6. MillersSpring*

      You definitely can list supervisors from jobs you held part-time or during summers, especially for the first few years after graduation. You also can list coworkers if they were senior to you, but very familiar with your work.

  13. Antilles*

    What are people’s thoughts on wearing those little “I’m Voted Today” stickers at work? Not the partisan ones, but the generic ones. I voted in the recent Georgia special elections (no politics please!) on my way into work and wore the sticker on my polo. We got into a little discussion about “oh you voted today? yeah, went on the way into the office” in our meeting, but nothing major.
    Given how heated people get about politics nowadays and how irritating some people can find the elections, I’m wondering if this is the kind of thing where it might be good to stop doing or if it’s something that most people would see as generally fine.

    1. strawberries and raspberries*

      You have the right and the civic duty to vote. It is something people do in a democracy, like sitting for jury duty. It would be one thing if you had party affiliations all over, or you were regularly ensnaring coworkers into heated political arguments. But wearing an “I Voted” sticker shouldn’t cause any reasonable person alarm.

    2. katamia*

      I think it’s fine. The people who want to talk politics when something that’s major or feels major is going on will probably talk politics anyway even without the sticker.

      2. Dr. Johnny Fever*

        Same here. I wear mine for elections, even local ones. But then I like stickers.

        I’ve never had a political conversation stem from it, just an acknowledgement, and maybe a comment that it reminds the person I’m talking to that she needs to visit the polls herself on the way home.

    3. kittymommy*

      I wouldn’t think the simple “I voted” sticker would be a big issue, at least it hasn’t been in the offices I’ve worked in (mainly government and some non profit).

    4. Karo*

      I think a generic “I Voted” sticker, where it’s not clear who or what party you voted for, is fine. My state splits its primaries with about a month between so I didn’t wear my sticker for that one, but I wore it on election day.

      1. Arjay*

        Yes. I don’t remember the exact situation, but a co-worker asked me one day if I had voted, when there wasn’t any voting that day for my party affiliation. I told him lightheartedly that “my people don’t vote today” and it was fine.
        If it was a situation where my affiliation might seem controversial, I’d – well, I’d wear it anyway – but I’d be aware of the message I was sending.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Remember my #1 reason to wear one of those stickers: no one will ask you if you’ve voted yet. I find them to be a great way to stay OUT of political discussions!

    7. Manders*

      I think it’s fine. Those stickers are designed to be non-partisan; they don’t advertise your political positions, they’re just a convenient reminder to the people around you that it’s election day.

    8. Shayland*

      I think it’s absolutely fine. I love those sticks and I think wearing them is an important part of encouraging others to vote. I don’t think it’s at all unprofessional. And if someone makes it a problem, then they’re the problem, not the sticker.

    9. paul*

      I won’t do it, but that’s because I try really hard to avoid politics at work, and it’s a great way to spark a political discussion.

    10. kavm*

      I wore a generic one back in November. I don’t think it’s a problem and no one in my office turned it into a political discussion.

    11. Judy (since 2010)*

      At my current company, our site has a tradition of cake at 3 pm on the afternoon of a general election. When they send the announcement out the day before, they say that you need your “I voted” sticker to get some cake. They also mention that you can take time off of work for voting.

      I know last fall, several folks didn’t have their sticker, but they still got cake.

      1. Cassie*

        I remember hearing a few years ago that giving away food to people who have “I voted” stickers is illegal – I just looked it up and it looks like for federal elections, it’s illegal to do that. (California state law, where I live, also prohibits it – but there are companies that still do it).

        As for your company, I don’t know if it makes a difference that this is a company giving cake to its employees, and not a company giving food to consumers. But what about legal residents who can work in the US but are not citizens?

    12. Professor Marvel*

      I’ll add my vote to it’s OK to wear. It shows a participation in the process not a political opinion.

    13. JJJJShabado*

      I agree that as longer as it non-partisan there is no issues. My county stopped giving away “I Voted” stickers. I was disappointed not getting one during the presidential election. I would have enjoyed wearing it.

      1. Tris Prior*

        My city did away with the stickers some time ago. Apparently people wouldn’t stop sticking them on polling place walls, which someone then had to clean up. Sigh. This is why we can’t have nice things.

        In November for the first time we got wristbands that said, “I voted! Did you?” I wore mine at work all day and so did a lot of people. Totally not a big deal.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          I would love that! My stickers often come off and sometimes get stuck in my (long, fine) hair. It doesn’t do much to promote voting…

          I often put the sticker on a hard surface *that belongs to me* – like a notebook or my wallet.

    14. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

      I think it’s just fine. I love those “I Voted” stickers and I wear mine for the rest of the day after I vote. All it says to me is that the person wearing the sticker did his or her civic duty.

      1. Parenthetically*

        It was a sad, sad day for me when my county stopped giving them out. (I think they’re also a great reminder to folks who forget — oh, right! I need to go vote!)

    15. Kris*

      I work in a very politically-diverse workplace. People often wear those stickers on election day. To my knowledge it hasn’t caused any political strife or irritation.

    16. CAA*

      I always wear mine. It stops the “get out the vote” people from asking you to go and vote, and sometimes you get free stuff. Krispy Kreme gave me a donut last year.

    17. HisGirlFriday*

      I work in politics, and even with all the hotly-contested crap that went on in November, I didn’t see anything negative about wearing the stickers.

      Heck, I took my then-four-month-old into the booth with me and put the sticker on her and then snapped a photo for her baby book!

    18. Buffy Summers*

      I don’t think it’s a big deal. I wore mine after I voted in the presidential election and it didn’t bring on any heated debates. No one asked me who I voted for – and lots of people were wearing theirs as well, so when it’s time for an election, any election really, I think it’s fine to wear a sticker saying you voted.

      Also – when I voted in the presidential election, instead of those little American flag stickers, I got a big sticker that had the presidential seal on it. I wore it like a kindergartner with a police badge on or something. I felt so cool and so silly for feeling cool. I even daydreamed about being a secret service agent for a bit. :)

    19. Buffy*

      I can’t see it causing an issue…you didn’t note in your post, so I’m sure this isn’t the case but when you are a journalist you aren’t “supposed” to vote (or so my editor told me) so wearing a sticker would not probably go over well.

      1. ZSD*

        What?! So being a journalist forces you to step out of our democracy?! I think your editor was loony.

        1. Buffy*

          Journalists are supposed to be neutral, so voting for a candidate would kind of void that. We still voted, but it was made clear we weren’t allowed to be public about it or wear the stickers.

          1. OhNo*

            I work in libraries, and some of them have a similar unofficial policy for public-facing staff. It’s not very common, but I get the reasoning – there’s a perception component there that doesn’t apply to every profession (or even equally within the profession).

        2. KellyK*

          Yeah, that’s ridiculous. The people *actually running* in the election vote; journalists should too.

          1. Buffy*

            It may seem silly, but there is valid reasoning behind it. Very much specific to that industry though, so obviously doesn’t make sense to a lot of people.

        3. Buffy*

          Also, important to note – I believe this idea of journalists remaining neutral is completely in step with democracy, a bipartisan press is one of the most important facets in fact.

          1. Optimistic Prime*

            Journalists not being biased in their journalism/news/reporting is in step with democracy, but it’s unrealistic to expect journalists not to be people who have opinions. When I read the news, it’s pretty clear that most journalists have a point of view or agenda – the issue is whether or not they cover the issue from multiple angles and give it a proper treatment. And journalists are still citizens! They should still get to vote.

            I mean, think about it – the same argument could be made for entire swaths of the population (government workers should be neutral because bipartisan government is important; tech workers should be neutral because the technology they build has the potential to sway elections; entertainment artists should be neutral because they can influence lots of people; etc.) Freedom of the press is one of the most important facets of a democracy, I agree, but I don’t think that requires journalists to eschew voting altogether.

    20. K.*

      I’ve worn them after every vote (so, every election since I turned 18) and never had an issue. People don’t tend to say much about them – if they’re wearing one too, one of us might say “Twins!” or something. I did have someone tell me they don’t vote at all, ever, when I wore my sticker to work, but I changed the subject; it would have been inappropriate and pointless to get into a discussion about it.

    21. Sibley*

      I don’t see a problem with it. Keep it to the wording you referenced and no one should be bent out of shape.

    22. Cassie*

      I don’t think it’s a problem – sometimes faculty or staff wear them. But it does remind me of the Superstore episode where assistant store manager Dina insists that all of the employees need to vote so Mateo (who is not a citizen, nor a legal resident) spends the episode trying to get an “I voted” sticker.

    23. Optimistic Prime*

      Particularly in Georgia (I’m from there) I think it’s just standard practice to wear it on election day, and most people see it as fine.

  14. Dawn*

    I have a work trip coming up- this will be my second work trip EVER and first at my new job. Fortunately, everyone at my job is super chill and it’s just a trip up to our Philly office to meet everyone on my team (we’re all in different offices) so it’s not a Big Important Client Site Meeting or anything.

    I’ve booked my travel and hotel- leaving DC on a morning Amtrak and the hotel I’m staying at is right across the street from the office (hooray!). Return trip will be by an evening train back to DC

    So, seasoned work travelers, what do I need to do to ensure success on this trip (three days, two nights)? I’m already thinking easily packable dresses, one pair of comfy flats that can go from traveling to office to dinner, and a pared-down makeup routine. Anything else to think about?

    1. Rincat*

      Make sure your shoes are separate from your clothes! Like in a shoe bag, or a separate compartment on your luggage. Because it’s so hot now, odors from them will seep throughout the suitcase if they’re not contained, and your clothes will stink. I know this from experience. :) Steaming your clothes upon arrival can help but it’s best just to keep them separate in the first place.

    2. strawberries and raspberries*

      I think it’s also a good idea to have a Tide pen, extra deodorant, and one of those facial toner spritzes so that if you’re overheated or tired you can just spray your face. And disposable wipes for the bathroom.

    3. TotesMaGoats*

      If you’ve got a lot of hair, take your own hairdryer. This is an issue for me as I’ve got long, thick hair and most hotels, even nice ones, have puny hairdryers. The last thing you want is it taking twice as long to dry your hair when you are getting ready in the morning.

      Chargers for all your devices.
      Water bottle

    4. Rowan*

      Super triple-check that you’ve packed all the power cords and chargers for the devices your taking. You don’t have to be the one saying, “Hey, anybody got a spare power cord for my laptop?” or unreachable by colleagues because your phone is dead. In fact, I recommend packing one of those external battery chargers for your phone, just in case. Doesn’t sound like this is a long trip, but it can’t hurt!

      1. BenAdminGeek*

        And don’t pack your spouse’s charger for their laptop…. not that I’ve ever done that by accident of course….

          1. BenAdminGeek*

            Was very lucky that hers is a USB-C charger, so she wasn’t completely screwed.

    6. paul*

      Is it going to be non stop or do you have downtime? I try to make sure I can take at least one evening to do something that’s just…me…when I travel for work. It helps keep me from becoming a crabby cranky mess after day 2.

    7. Nea*

      Oh, I love to travel! Generic packing advice that I’ve always followed – pack outfits, not items. In other words, dress/underthings/scarf/jewelry/cardigan or jacket all go together, not “here are my dresses, there are my bras.” That way you know that you’ve got everything you need for that outfit and you don’t unexpectedly end up on the last day with a black bra and a light blue dress *cough*notthatIdknow*cough* Turkey-sized ziplock baggies (they exist!) or packing cubes are a great way of corralling everything you need, or you can just lay everything on the inside of the dress and fold the dress into a little bundle.

      Also, have 1 entire extra outfit Just In Case. You never know about sudden spills, downpours, etc.

      Finally, and this might be just me, but I haaaaaate sorting laundry and I’m not really fond of laundry at all. So everything I pack can, as much as possible, be thrown into the same load of washing upon my return.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Also, have 1 entire extra outfit Just In Case. You never know about sudden spills, downpours, etc.

        This this this. Also in case you have to stay over for some reason (more likely if you’re flying and a flight gets cancelled, etc.). I also learned the hard way that if you’re even the slightest bit close to your period, make sure you have a little pack of supplies handy. Never think it won’t show up because it will. Or that you can buy some. I got stuck overnight in Atlanta in a hotel near a lone convenience store that did not carry ANY feminine supplies whatsoever. Thank God the hotel had pads.

        1. Nea*

          Speaking of emergency supplies, it’s never a bad idea to have a couple of period supplies, safety pins, bandaids, headache pills, etc tucked into a bag. Oh, and a couple of ziplock baggies because you never know what you might need them for.

          My personal go-to bag for this is one of the Vera Bradley mini bags. Pricey if you can’t find one at a second hand store, yes, but quilted bags with cardboard bottoms have two HUGE advantages:
          1) They’re washable
          2) That cardboard piece at the bottom is removable (at least it is for Vera). So there’s nothing stopping you from removing it, taping an envelope with emergency cash to it, and shoving it back in… (This also works if you don’t want to carry an emergency credit card on you.)

          I also have a secondhand quilted duffle that I like to pack in my bags for longer trips. While I’m at the hotel it basically acts as a dirty laundry hamper (as it can be washed also), but it’s conveniently at hand if I suddenly need an extra bag going back home.

        2. Buffy Summers*

          Funny that you mention this because I found myself in this exact predicament last week on a work trip. I wasn’t supposed to start till the end of last week and since I was only going to be gone for 3 days, I thought it would be fine. I was so very wrong.
          Thank God for female colleagues that had some supplies with them! :)

        1. Nea*

          It changed mine when I learned that one. I’d give a hat tip if I remembered where I got that one from.

        2. Crashsite*

          I pack by outfit and by color scheme. I don;t like to bring a lot of shoes so I try to stick to one color scheme and one pair of work shoes.

          1. Rookie Manager*

            But not just one pair of shoes, just in case, hypothetically, as you step onto the airport link train, hypothetically, one of your shoes falls off onto the track and the only solution, hypothetically, is to buy London underground patterned flip flops at the airport giftshop and wear them all the way home, hypothetically!

            2. Rockhopper*

              Definitely an extra pair of shoes. And keep one eye on the ground in front of you when you are walking. I visited my son in Philly last weekend and let’s just say that there are things on the sidewalk you want to avoid stepping on/in. I suppose most cities are like that. And bring a small umbrella.

          2. Optimistic Prime*

            Me too. This helps save a lot of space and can be the difference between a small bag and a big bag.

      3. SL #2*

        Definitely packing by outfit! I just realized I do this subconsciously anyway, but it’s good to have a reminder.

      4. Hillary*

        Absolutely yes on the laundry thing. I lay out my outfits, but then I pack in small fabric bags, I think they were from the dollar aisle at Target during going to college season. Underthings go in one bag, shoes go in the shoe bag, and the laundry bag goes in the underthing bag empty. Then dirty laundry goes into that bag as necessary, it stays segregated from the clean clothes, and it goes straight into the hamper when I get home. Plus I know which extra underwear is still clean (I always pack two extra sets of shirts, underwear, and socks in case of delays or spills, depending on what else I’m bringing I may or may not bring an extra pair of trousers).

        It doesn’t sound relevant for your trip, but visiting manufacturing plants I swap fabric bags out for large ziplocks. I didn’t do that one one trip last fall, my entire suitcase smelled like the product they made at that factory even after I got home one day and 1000 miles later.

        1. MillersSpring*

          Seconding the separate bag for dirty clothes. I always take an extra outfit and underwear, so I like to keep the unworn items clean for the trip home.

          Also keep your jewelry in a separate makeup bag, plastic baggie or jewelry bag. You don’t want extra earrings loose in your bag or purse.

          Also try to use travel-friendly grooming items, for example I use stick deoderant instead of spray antiperspirant and facial wipes instead of liquid cleanser.

      5. BenAdminGeek*

        Yes! The trip I forgot to pack any socks was less than ideal. That’s when I switched to outfits not items.

      6. Parenthetically*

        I always bring one entire extra outfit and two extra pairs of underthings in my carryon. Saved my bacon a time or two when my luggage has gotten lost and had to be delivered to me the next day… or the day after that…

    8. kb*

      I always pack a little bag with a couple bags of ginger tea, ibuprofen, eye drops, band aids, and lotion-y tissues. It’s all stuff you could reasonably find in Philly if you need it, but it always seems like if I’m prepared for something it is less likely to happen, haha.

      1. My name is Inigo Montoya*

        Something to wear in your downtime in the evening that you wouldn’t be mortified to see your boss/client while wearing. I wear a full suit generally while on travel and generally like to change to something else if I’m just eating dinner by myself. I generally can re-wear my airplane outfit in the evenings, but might bring something extra depending on the length of the trip.

    9. IvyGirl*

      Flip flops and baby wipes/sanitizing wipes for the hotel room.

      The first thing I do when I get to a hotel room is wipe down the remote, the door handles and the light switches, then I check the mattress. Without fail.

      Also – welcome to Philly! Lots to do here – enjoy your stay.

    10. Ashie*

      Unpack as soon as you get into the hotel. Hang up your jackets and dresses, put your underwear in the drawer, put your toiletries in the bathroom, then stow your suitcase. It’s so much less stressful when you’re not rummaging around in your bag the whole trip.

    11. Lucky*

      Make sure you take time to “check out” of work stuff. If it’s a big team to-do, you’ll be working all day and have your lunch and dinner planned with the group. Bring workout clothes, if that’s your thing, and take an hour to hit the hotel gym or go for a walk. Duck out of a dinner early so you can lounge around in the hotel and watch TV or read. Go to a museum, see the Liberty Bell or climb those steps from the Rocky movie.

    12. look_a_squirrel!*

      I use an app (I think it’s called Stylebook) on my phone to organize my wardrobe. When I need to plan a trip, I pick items in advance that can be mixed/matched easily. For example, a three-day trip would require three pairs of pants and three blouses and then I’d add in a pair of jeans, a sweater or blazer, a pair of comfortable shoes, etc. so that I can easily transition an outfit from day to evening just by putting on jeans and changing jewelry. This also works for transitioning to travel wear right after a day of meetings or vice versa.

      I also do a ‘purse within a purse’ thing where I have a small handbag that serves as my wallet and it goes into my bigger tote purse. Going out to dinner right after getting off a plane? Swap the flats for heels and throw the little purse over your shoulder. Easy peasy.

      Most importantly, I have a detailed checklist that I use to make sure I don’t forget anything when leaving the house. It’s always something like a phone charger or important medication so I force myself to check things off even if I know in my head I’ve packed it.

    13. Drew*

      I duplicated all my essential toiletries and keep my shaving kit packed so I can just throw it into the suitcase and not worry whether I’ve forgotten something. After a long trip, I make sure to go through it in case I need to replace/refill anything, but then I pack it back up and put it with my suitcases.

      I have to be careful with soaps and shampoos, so for long enough trips that I’m checking a bag, I go ahead and pack my own that I know are fine for me. For a trip of a couple of days, I just use the hotel-supplied soap and shampoo; it won’t kill me for that short a trip and it means I can carry my bag on and not pay for or deal with a checked bag.

      Speaking of the checked bag: I got a travel backpack off Kickstarter and I have used it for trips of up to a week without problems. It’s at the upper end of some airlines’ carry-on sizes, but I’ve found that wearing it as a backpack means it never gets questioned. Here’s a link: https://www.standardluggage.com/products/carry-on-backpack-travel-bag

      1. Dawn*

        That is SUPER COOL!!!! Not flying this trip but my husband and I are planning several vacations that will involve flying and I might just have to buy us each one of these!!!

    14. CAA*

      Save all your receipts for everything, even if you think you won’t need it. I have an easy-to-reach pocket in my messenger bag where I stash all receipts. If you take a cab from the Amtrak station to the hotel and they give you one of those little blank cards, write down how much you paid immediately, and then put it in your bag.

      If you have a per diem or max amount per meal, find out what that amount is. Know whether there’s going to be a problem getting reimbursed if you have a glass of wine on your dinner bill because some places won’t pay for alcohol. You can choose to spend over your reimbursable amounts, but you don’t want to get home and be surprised to find out that something isn’t included.

      Join the hotel’s rewards club, even if you think you won’t stay there again. Sometimes just being a member gets you perks (at Kimptons, it’s free wifi and $10 off the mini-bar). If you are getting any kind of discount rate at the hotel, bring the proper ID to substantiate your entitlement to that discount.

    15. Ama*

      One trick I’ve found useful — if your beauty routine requires hair gel or moisturizer that you apply with your hands and don’t need a huge amount of each day — the contact lens cases with the screw on lids are a great way to carry small amounts of those things without having to cart around a full size bottle. (When you fly you can also fit a bunch of them into a TSA-approved plastic bag, too.)

      Regardless, make sure any liquid products are in some kind of waterproof container — I’ve had all kinds of incidents where a bottle I expected to be leakproof turned out not to be, or got jostled just enough to knock a cap loose.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        I put all my liquid or runny cream cosmetics either in a Ziploc baggie or in a cosmetic bag with a wipeable interior. For some reason those things like to magically open and get all over everything else.

    16. motherofdragons*

      If you’re like me and have trouble adjusting to sleeping away from home, think about how to make your nighttime routine extra comfy. I always pack my sleep mask, favorite pajamas, and a sound machine (or use the app on my phone), and sometimes I’ll bring some sleepytime tea or relaxing aromatherapy lotion.

    17. Malibu Stacey*

      If you are bringing any credit cards in your wallet, save the phone # on the back to call if it gets lost in your cell phone. That way if your wallet gets lost or stolen you don’t have to look around for the number.

    18. Sunflower*

      For two nights, don’t bother with shampoo or conditioner. Tough it out with the hotel supplied ones. Get something to eat before you get on the train- Amtrak food sucks. Amtrak is always either freezing or stiffing hot(I have been on a full train in January that had to be 85 degrees and thank god I was a wearing tank top under my blazer). I take it a lot and it’s very rarely a comfortable temp so wear layers on your way there and back. Also Amtrak wifi is THE WORST so don’t count on getting a ton of work done on the train. Also bring your power cords/chargers. Your train may be extremely delayed and you’ll be happy you weren’t trying to run off battery while stuck on a 1.5 turned 5 hour train ride (can you tell I love Amtrak!)

      Agree to pack outfits, not items. I like to bring one pair of jeans and a top that can go with my work outfit and the jeans. Bring your favorite PJ’s to sleep in- it always makes me feel just a little better. I always remember to have at least one or two hair tie, bobby pins and tampons(just in case!). Take pictures of your receipts so if you lose them, you have back up(your company might have an app that works with your expense system). Always have advil just in case.

      Oh and remember to enjoy our city! It sounds like you’re in Center City which is super walkable and you won’t be too far from the Liberty Bell and Old City. The rocky steps are a little further but totally doable.

      1. Natalie*

        Completely disagree re: shampoo & conditioner, but my hair is finicky (3B curly) and hotel shampoo would require so much more product to look presentable that it would be a completely wash (hyuk hyuk hyuk) between that and bringing my own.

        But, no reason to bring a full bottle. You can often buy trial sizes that are just enough for one or two days. They don’t take up much space on the way there and take up zero space on the way back because you’ve thrown them away!

        1. Parenthetically*

          I have often dumped out hotel shampoo bottles to save and put my own in. I have a LOT of hair, so a bottle that size is enough for one wash with normal shampoo, but I found a super-concentrated shampoo that I can get three or four washes out of the same size bottle, which is a lifesaver! I hate checking a bag for a short trip (or… at all, really), so anything that can save me from that is great.

        2. Optimistic Prime*

          I have 4A curly hair and I completely agree. The hotel shampoo and conditioner would totally wreck my hair. I just buy the little travel bottles at Target and make my own travel bottles from my full size.

    19. MillersSpring*

      Check your bathroom cabinet for items you desperately need occasionally and therefore miiiiight need on the road. Examples: tweezers, nail file, Imodium, Aleve, bandaids.

      Also, be sure to carry one-dollar bills and tip at the hotel and include your tips later in your expense report. Leave $2 or $3 on your nightstand each morning with a note to the housekeeper; just “Thank You!” on the notepad is fine. If a bellhop helps you to your room or down to the lobby, give him/her $1 per bag.

    20. Anono-me*

      General travel suggestions.

      Take a T-shirt and sweat or yoga pants instead of PJs. That way if you need to deal with something late at night you can deal with it dressed.

      Have a couple of snacks, a water bottle, a spare change of clothing, medications, and any valuables that you cannot do without (including Electronics) in your carry on. (Be sure the any medication is in the original packaging. )

      Also, I always pack a an extra toothbrush, an extra set of skivies, otc medicine to treat tummy trouble, a travel sized roll of duct tape, a couple of extra large Zippy bags and a large garbage bag.

      Have a great business trip.

      1. GirlwithaPearl*

        I have been on nearly a hundred work trips and I’m baffled as to when I would have ever needed a large garbage bag. I’m on pins and needles waiting hear this story.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          I sometimes use one to cover my suitcase when it’s pouring rain and I’m in transit. I can then throw it away when I get to the airport or hotel.

        2. AfterBurner313*

          I pack two large garbage bags.

          Used it for dirty, icky clothes.

          Covered suit case while it rained/down pour.

          BED BUGS! Stayed in a place infested with them. EVERYTHING in my suitcase went into the trash bag, Then the suitcase went into the second trash bag. (For that reason alone, I bring trash bags.) This was a very nice, extremely expensive hotel, not the Hood Rat Super 7 motel.

          Handy barf bag for when that catered buffet poisons everyone, and I didn’t want to turn the room into a crime scene.

          Seat cover on mass transit. Sometimes the seat might look sketchy, and I’m dead bone too tired to stand for 60 minutes. Is it a stain or did someone leak bodily fluids?

          I’m sure I’ve used it more than just the above…

        3. Anono-me*

          Sorry to be so late to follow up. Afterburner313 and Academia cover most of the reasons a large trash bag is useful. A couple of others:

          Emergency rain poncho.

          Supplemental laundry bag if you get something icky on your clothes or shoes, and can not clean it right away, but don’t want the ick (or the smell) getting on anything else.

          Seat cover on iffy transit (or at an unplanned outdoor event. )

          Split two of the seams and you can lay down on it on top of the weird mats some airports offer to stranded travelers.

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        Agreed with the yoga pants; this is what I always do. You never know when you’ll accidentally get locked out of your hotel room or want to go get something from the vending machine.

    21. Synonymous*

      I always bring small bottles of shampoo and conditioner. I know the hotel provides some, and I use theirs whenever I can. I also know the heart-sinking feeling of checking out the bathroom and realizing they provided shampoo/conditioner not shampoo and conditioner. It is not the same in my eyes.

    22. snowflake*

      so timely! I am going on my first work trip – 3 days/2 nights in atlanta – this coming week for a training. my packing is going to be adventurous because I cannot do laundry today (my building is having issues with the water pressure and they’ve asked us not to use the machines) and I am coming back to go on vacation for a week a few days later (but at least that vacation includes time at my parents’ house, so I can wash clothes there and/or borrow from my mom if needed).

      I might switch out the shorts I was going to bring with yoga pants after reading this thread – I don’t have ac so I sleep in shorts all summer but in the south they might blast it (plus all my coworkers are staying in the hotel – what if there’s a fire alarm?)

  15. Murphy*

    I just got back from maternity leave. I’m the only person who does what I dos so while I was out, a few co-workers covered my work. For one aspect of my work, I left behind a document with very specific instructions about what needed to be done in various situations and where my files were on the shared drive, etc. I also went over it with the relevant co-workers. Two things on the document were to a) copy a generic email address on everything relating to that topic and b) put every program that is announced in this one spreadsheet. Neither of those things were done. I also once got contacted by my boss while I was out about a situation that could easily have been addressed without me if someone had checked said spreadsheet. I don’t want to throw my co-workers under the bus, because I appreciate them handling my work while I was out, particularly when it’s out of their normal area, but I’m kind of annoyed that this wasn’t done. I can piece together the spreadsheet, but I’m going to have to go through 2 months of listserv emails in order to do so, which isn’t the greatest use of my time. Should I say something?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Absolutely. Being thankful for covering your work only applies if they did a good job at it. You left clear instructions that weren’t followed. Now you have more work. That’s very not cool.

    2. Sadsack*

      I think it is fair to ask why it wasn’t done. It’s not like they were doing you a personal favor, they were doing what the business needed done (or they were supposed to).

    3. Shayland*

      Personally I think I would. It would give your manager the chance to remind these co-workers to follow the instructions left for them more carefully the next time they have to cover for someone. It also might be part of a pattern.

      I don’t think there’s any need to make a big deal out of it, but I do think you should mention it.

    4. paperfiend*

      I think you could say something, but I’d bring it up in a “okay, I’m getting back into the swing of work, and here’s where I’m spending my time” way. Assuming you have (or can schedule one) regular meetings with your manager, that’s where I’d do it. That way it’s not coming across as “I am really irritated with these two co-workers” but instead “I found that this document isn’t up to date, and I need it for work going forward, so I’m spending X hours doing that, and Y amount of time checking for emails related to project. That’s going to mean I don’t get to Z project until next week.” or whatever.

      2. BenAdminGeek*

        Yes, this approach works well. It makes it clear how it impacted you, without being “complainy”

    5. Menacia*

      My coworker never uses the documentation that is supplied to everyone, he will ask anyone and everyone instead. If I ask him did he check such and such, he’ll just say no, and continue on the same path of asking everyone….ain’t nothing more useless than a useless coworker….

    6. Beezus*

      I’d try to keep frustration out of it, and just mention to my boss in a 1:1 that I needed to plan on spending quite a bit of time in the near future reconstructing my spreadsheet by going through emails, and explain that it was because my backups missed following that particular instruction in the handy dandy to-do document that I left.

      If that one thing, and the situation that spurred the phone call, were the only misses from all the work instructions you left, I’d let it go otherwise. If there were more general issues with your instructions not being followed, I might raise it, but it would be more constructive to bring it up as, “I intended to avoid these problems by leaving this document – what could I have done differently to make that work better?…could I have been more clear, is there another format that works better, is there context missing that someone can only gain by helping with my work (and if so, can we cross-train someone)?” Even if the problem is that they completely flubbed or didn’t take your work as seriously as you take it, I think approaching it from a “what could I have done to avoid this?” angle makes people more open to discussing the problem.

    7. LurkNoMore*

      As a person that just filled in for a person on maternity leave, I’d be miffed if you complained. And you were only contacted ONCE in three months? Please remember that these people were handling your responsibilities on top of their own. I’m sure they are very happy for you to return so that they can get back to their regular jobs, return to normal working hours and catch up on their own work.
      Personally, I’d be grateful for all they did to insure that you were only bothered that one time.

      1. HisGirlFriday*

        Uhm…but that’s how it works. When you’re on any kind of leave — medical, maternity, FMLA, whatever — people are supposed to cover for you, and that means they Do The Job Correctly.

        When I was on mat leave last year, I had a lot of things that weren’t done, and when I came back, my boss and I had a conversation about, ‘OK, well, Fergus didn’t do X by Y date, so we missed this deadline which means Z result.’ And then Boss took it up with Fergus.

        I’m sure they are happy to have the poster back, but just because they were covering for her doesn’t mean they get a pass on having not done the work they were supposed to have done.

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          I think in this case, I think it would come off poorly. The generic e-mail cc’ing and the spreadsheet are tools to help get work done. They’re not the end result themselves. As long as the deliverables got met, I wouldn’t pick this hill to die on.

        2. Anon Anon*

          That’s how it works in an ideal situation, but in many smaller organizations, it’s everyone pitching in and doing the best that they can. I’ve covered for one of my co-workers during her maternity leave, and I was doing two jobs during her entire 10 week leave. I didn’t mind doing both jobs, as she needed time to recover and bond with her new baby, but I would have probably been hurt if she criticized the way I did her job. Because there were more days than not, that just keeping my head above water was a challenge, and I know there were many things that fell through the cracks.

    8. Betty*

      My boss at the time (HR Manager) covered my stuff while I was out on maternity leave. When I came back… every single thing she touched was screwed up so bad. I spent 5 months trying to fix everything. I found a new job (thankfully) before I was done fixing everything. It sucks working for morons.

    9. a Potterhead for life*

      I’m wondering if the co-workers understood *why* these two things are important. It shouldn’t matter (!), but people are more likely to do things that seem to have a purpose and both of these tasks -while important to you! – seem pretty trivial to someone who doesn’t have a vested interest in them (and have their own jobs to focus on).

  16. office uniform*

    I’m considering moving to a work wear uniform a la Steve Jobs, but a more business casual look. Has any one done this with success? I’ve settled on slacks and a blouse in two colors, but I’m worried this is 1. weird 2. that I look like a fancy waiter.

    1. Angela's Back*

      I had a coworker who did this and it was totally fine–the only difference between what she did and what you’re describing is that she had a rotating group of sweater sets in 5 or 6 or maybe even 7 colors, so a little more variety than what you’re describing. But if your blouses are in basics like grey or white or navy, I don’t think anyone will think twice about it. Honestly, if I didn’t know that I would get bored doing this, I would do it in a heartbeat.

      1. sheepla*

        Wow, I’m so inspired by this idea. I have a TON of accessories, so I don’t even think it would get boring.

      2. office uniform*

        I think I’ll add a little more variety in the blouses just to keep it from getting stale. I wear the same five or so outfits in my personal life and want the same easy “getting dressed” time in morning for my work week.

      3. Electric Hedgehog*

        I do this because I hate shopping. If I find something that works, I buy it in half a dozen colors and wear it a lot.

    2. Pearly Girl*

      I love the idea of a uniform.

      I wear black knit skinny pants and solid or patterned tunic tops almost every day. Plus, I have 3 or 4 necklaces and a few watches that I wear consistently to add a little sparkle. Done.

    3. Nea*

      I’ve done the thing where you find something you like and buy it in every color. In my case, that color has to go with black, grey, or denim blue.

      So it’s the same type of bottom and the same type of top, but it’s not necessarily a black turtleneck over blue jeans all the time. And because black, grey, and denim blue coordinate, everything mostly goes with everything else.

    4. CherryScary*

      I do this! Every day (minus sometimes Fridays because casual day) I wear a pair of dress pants, a nice soild color t and a blazer. I mix and match the colors.

      My coworkers have commented on it, but its always been in a positive way!

      1. Amadeo*

        Yup, I do more or less the same thing, sometimes with a variation in color. It’s nice jeans, a solid color tee from someplace like Target or Old navy and a cami (because I am well-endowed and v-neck shirts reveal more cleavage than I am comfortable with on their own).

        Every once in a while there’ll be something different, but not terribly often.

    5. Bend & Snap*

      I think you need more tops.

      i have a uniform of skinny ankle pants and a few tops, but I mix and match both the tops & bottoms + jewelry, shoes and bags.

      1. office uniform*

        I think you’re right; I don’t want to be known as the person in the office who wears the same exact thing everyday.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      I like this idea so much. I never know what to wear to work, and I probably will have to go back to business casual with my next job (I wore jeans and t-shirts to Exjob).

        2. Optimistic Prime*

          Me too! I honestly want to get down to work paring down my wardrobe. I have a lot of clothes in my closet that don’t fit me properly anymore or that I don’t like to wear, and I want to have a smallish wardrobe of high-quality stuff I love.

    7. kb*

      It may be nice to have 3 colors of pants, 1 a bit more summery than the others. I’m thinking black, grey, and white (or if you don’t like white, a lighter grey). It depends on where you are (I know black is always a go in NYC), but the time of year I may notice if someone is wearing a uniform is if it starts to look wrong for the season.

      1. kb*

        I also really love black and white, so I think wearing a black top with white pants looks really sharp, a bit unexpected, and slightly more summery.

        1. office uniform*

          Thank you! I love black and white too, but I didn’t think of how I would adapt my uniform for the seasons.

          1. kb*

            I don’t know if this moves the uniform concept too far into capsule wardrobe territory, but I’ve found colorful/patterned/metallic/fun belts to be a great way to make white pants with a white shirt wearable for hot summer days. Not a lot of people wear white on white, so even though you’d be wearing the same ole stuff that makes up your uniform, you’d really pop.

          2. Rookie Manager*

            A former colleague used to wear black trousers and a white shirt 90% of the time. However shechad loads of different styles of both so it was easy to adapt for the seasons. I don’t think she intended a uniform but just liked, and suited, that look.

    8. a Potterhead for life*

      omg, start tomorrow! I started doing this about a year and a half ago and life is so much easier. It started as a fluke because I was depressed and I just wore the same thing every day (but clean), because I just didn’t care and I didn’t want to have to think about anything let alone what to wear.

      At this point my wardrobe is pretty boring, but is fine and is super easy – all the same color schemes and every piece matches all of the other pieces. I also found a sock that I liked and got rid of all of my other socks and bought two dozen pairs of those socks – no more matching socks! just reach in the drawer and grab two!

    9. Cedrus Libani*

      I wear a gray polo with black slacks, every work day. It works for me; I’m allergic to mornings and don’t want to make decisions in the AM, the whole business around fashion / clothes / shopping is a chore to me rather than a pleasure, and also my hair is bright purple, so I’ve got my “personal flair” budget mostly spoken for. I’d totally recommend it.

  17. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I am literally unable to keep my eyes open at my desk! Any tips? I am doing all caregiving and 95% of home chores right now so I’m exhausted all the time!

    The story: spouse badly broke her leg, and her dad died, and this is her third serious health problem in a year. She is using a walker and working from home but otherwise basically bedbound. It’s been a few weeks so any help I had from family or church has dried up.

    But I’m so tired from working, gym-ing, then coming home to chores and never being able to actually sit down and relax uninterrupted until about 9:30 pm, that I am falling almost-asleep on a plane in full sunlight (I have never slept on planes before), in a meeting, at my desk, and while driving.

    I am usually managing 7 hours of sleep a night but it takes a while to fall asleep and I am interrupted at times by my wife getting up to use the bathroom (the walker is LOUD), or the cats crying for breakfast so insistently that I have to get up and feed them, then back to sleep for another 30-60 minutes. So I don’t know if it’s lack of sleep or just physical tiredness from going, going, going from work ending until spouse is asleep.

    But either way, I really need help staying awake at work!

    1. KL*

      I don’t have any advice, but as a person with a stress fracture in her foot relying on her spouse, everything you do it greatly appreciated!

      Is it possible for you to take a power nap during the day?

    2. Nosy Nelly*

      cut back on chores! no one is testing you or auditing your house cleanliness–as long as there are clothes to wear and whatever food/toiletries/other supplies available for daily life tasks as you need them, I’d say let it get a little messier than usual in service of your other responsibilities/sanity :)

      1. SMT*

        The only everyday chores that you really need to do are providing dinner and doing dishes (so that dinner can be made the next night). Laundry, dusting, cleaning, etc. can wait until you have a day off and need to do them (and even then, prioritize, and what doesn’t get done can get done later).

    3. Jane Mouse*

      That all sounds really hard and scary (almost sleeping while driving!!). I think this is serious enough that if you can afford it, you may want to outsource some of your work to get back some sleeping and de-stressing time. Can you hire a home aid through your insurance or via Care.com and hire a housekeeper to come weekly? Some cheaper ideas are to try a meal kit or meal delivery service and get an automatic feeder for the kitties.

    4. Shayland*

      That sounds really difficult!

      Can you take a sick day, because it sounds like you need one. I would start sleeping with ear plugs in. There are these waxy type ones that just cover the outside of the ear instead of resting in the ear that I recommend, so that your wife and the cats don’t wake you.

      To fall asleep faster / more restfully I recommend following a mindfulness meditation or exercise. You don’t have to listen to a tape or anything, just focusing on, feeling, and hearing the way your breath moves through your body.

      Try to avoid taking caffeine too late in the day as well.

      Good luck!

    5. Kristinemc*

      Would an automatic cat feeder help, assuming you’re feeding them dry food? That’s the only portion I can think of a solution for!

      I do agree, though – cut back on chores if needed!

    6. paperfiend*

      This doesn’t speak to the staying awake, but more to mitigating the exhaustion… Let your church folks and other friends know that you still need help! And identify some specific things like mowing the lawn, going to the grocery store with your list and dropping groceries at home with your spouse, etc. If your church is anything like mine, there’s a big push to help people when an Event happens, and then things taper off – but if the person affected by Event still needs help a few weeks later, we still want to help but may not realize there’s an ongoing need.

      And look for things you can drop. You mention the gym – can you cut back from 4 workouts a week to 2 or 3 for a while? Order in dinner, if you’re currently cooking it? Standards may need to change for a little while, but if you think of it as temporary it’s easier.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        I was scrolling down to say this–ask the church. They are willing, they just don’t realize that you are still struggling. And asking for specifics is good–for example, they might be willing to bring in food several nights a week, so you just need to reheat.

        As someone who once woke up to a cat batting at the controls of the clock radio, because he knew this was involved in the people getting out of bed and feeding him: leave out dry food before you go to bed.

    7. Lora*

      Relax your standards. It’s temporary until you have more time / spouse is better and able to help / whatever. Believe me, I know from cat hair, and nobody ever died from not vacuuming more than once a week. Cut back to the bare minimum of what MUST be done.
      -People need food
      -People need clean underpants
      -Clothes need to not stink to high heaven
      -Walkways need to be clear so you’re not tripping over stuff
      -The bathroom needs toilet paper and soap
      -Cats need food
      -Litter boxes need scooped (I am a big fan of Scoop Free)
      -Probably some sort of gas in the car type of thing needs done
      -Sounds like medications need refills maybe

      That’s it. That’s what you NEED. Anything else is a nice-to-have when you’re overwhelmed. You need sleep more than you need the other stuff.

    8. NJ Anon*

      Reach back out to family and friends! Sometimes they dont know what you need and when you need it! I had back surgery last year and that was a piece of advice I reveived and it worked! Also, cut back on stuff that can wait. It’ll be there later. Self care is important!

      3. Hellanon*

        Yes, this. Can you get one of your friends to organize a meal rotation, so that supper is delivered 2-3 times a week and you/your wife get to see friends without doing a lot of prep or driving anywhere? I’ve organized & participated in a couple of these, sometimes for months, when the person was really ill, and it makes thing so much easier. Bonus points for a) getting enough for leftovers the next day and b) getting to send the serving dish back dirty… Key thing though is your friends want to help I am sure, but at this point, they need someone to tell them how.

    9. Trix*

      I don’t see you mention anything about caffeine, but I know that’s a common go-to when you want to “wake up.” For years, I thought that caffeine didn’t really affect me, at least not to any noticeable degree. Then I cut caffeine out, and suddenly I was able to sleep at night. No real difference during the day (good!), and super benefit at night (double good!).

      About a year later I moved from a second shift type of work schedule to a first shift type, and started drinking one cup of coffee a day, and my rule is that it’s always done by noon. If I haven’t actually finished it, too bad, I’m done with it. Having that hard cut off time, even though it’s hours and hours before I actually go to bed, has made a huge impact. I know a lot of people do the afternoon jolt, but it’s totally counterproductive for me.

      1. GermanGirl*

        Yes this. I used to have a pretty bad case of after lunch sleepiness even with lots of coffee until I figured this out.
        Caffeine takes hours to move through your system but it’s most effective 3-4 hours after you drank it and it still disturbs your sleep up to 8 hours after.
        So when I started drinking coffee at 1pm when I got tired and kept drinking the stuff the rest of the afternoon, that really set me up for a restless night and another low after lunch the next day.

        Now I drink one cup of coffee when I arrive at work and only water the rest of the day and I haven’t been tired after lunch in weeks.

        Also, house cleaning is a pretty good workout by itself, so I’d cut out the gym on days that you do cleaning.

    10. Delta Delta*

      We’re a big fan of the “leave the cat food bucket open” method if we really need to get some extra sleep. I know you could probably set your watch to your cats’ stomachs, and I know cats love routines, but sometimes they can be tricked into being quiet (thus, letting you sleep) if a) they eat dry food and b) you can leave the container open so they can feed themselves. This isn’t great for them for the long haul, and obviously doesn’t work if they’re wet food only cats. But that little bit of uninterrupted morning sleep could be a huge help!

    11. KellyK*

      I like the advice everyone else gave about cutting chores to the bare minimum & trying to get friends and family to help and outsource anything you can afford to.

      If you feed your cats wet food & can’t use an automatic feeder, maybe feed them more/later in the evening to give yourself a little better buffer in the morning. Or scatter some kibble in a place they’ll find it before you go to bed.

      As far as stop-gap “gotta keep your eyes open now” suggestions, air conditioning and loud music can help, especially in the car. For meetings or at your desk, fidgeting with something, biting your lip or digging your nails into your hand might help. Or sitting with your legs crossed to make your foot fall asleep.

      It might also be good to have a back-up plan for driving when you’re this tired. Knowing where you can stop for a cup of coffee or pull over for a nap on the side of the road is probably a good thing. The huge downside there is that caffeinating yourself to safely get through the drive home can keep you from falling asleep later, so it can become a vicious cycle. Other safety plans might include asking family or church friends for rides or to run errands, or having a person or two you could call for a rescue if you’re so tired that it’s not safe to drive. (I know I’d much rather pick a friend up from wherever and take them to get their car the next day than hear that they fell asleep at the wheel and had a fatal crash.)

      1. Alli525*

        Maybe instead of caffeine, a piece of fresh fruit right before leaving the office might boost blood sugar enough to keep OP awake while driving? It’s not perfect, but in combination with music and a/c, it might work.

      2. NonnyNon*

        Second the A/C and loud music for driving. I’d also recommend forcing yourself to sing along to whatever you’re listening too. If you’re too tired you could end up dozing off or zoning out even with the loud music playing, but singing along forces yourself to pay attention a little bit more and stops that from happening so much. (I always know when I’m getting dangerously tired because I *stop* singing, and that’s my cue to do something to wake myself back up.)

        If you think you’re going to fall asleep completely but can’t stop to take a full nap, pull over and get of your car and walk around to wake yourself up a little bit more. And it really sucks, but slapping yourself on the arms or (lightly) on the face can help wake you up a little too.

    12. Brogrammer*

      If you don’t already know about it, the caffeine nap. Caffeine usually takes about 30 minutes to hit your system, so drinking coffee and then taking a nap helps you wake up refreshed. Since you typically go back to bed after the cats wake you up, try having your first cup when you feed them, so that when you get back up you’ll feel more energized and less like death warmed over and allowed to congeal.

      1. paperfiend*

        Ok, that totally explains why an afternoon mountain dew followed immediately by lounging on the sofa results in me taking a nap! I always thought caffeine just didn’t affect me if I was really tired – I didn’t think about the delay in when it hits.

      2. Hrovitnir*

        I know someone who was so good at that, I am full of envy. (It takes me hours to get to sleep, maybe 30-45 minutes if I’m exhausted.)

        1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          Something I’ve found with napping — you don’t necessarily have to fall asleep for it to work! I tried NASA naps for a while (26min exactly) and almost never fell asleep, but I found that spending that time lying down, eyes closed, deliberately letting my mind drift and NOT thinking about what I ought to be doing, all was still incredibly refreshing.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      When my husband was sick, we slept in different rooms. It made sense because we just disturbed each other too much. Rest was super important to both of us. He needed it because of his illness and I needed it in order to function at 2000% the next day.

      Walker. I am not sure what kind you have. The ones without the wheels and without the seat in them tend to be very noisy. I am talking about the drab, grey old style. If this is the case you may be able to borrow a more modern walker from someone. Maybe someone at church can loan one?

      Definitely start thinking about what things you are willing to let go of for the moment. Everybody picks different things so I won’t get too involved in that discussion. But do look at stuff and say, “How important is this right now?”

      Since it has been a few weeks for her to adjust perhaps she can take on a few more tasks then she has been doing so far. One thing you might consider is asking her to participate in finding new people to come and help the two of you. If I asked my husband this and he came up with ONE person, I would have made sure to act very happy and pleased that he thought of someone. It’s hard and I do understand that.

      In what you describe here, I would try to find ways to increase my sleep hours from 7 to 8 hours. Maybe this would mean one hour of reading in bed so I can empty out my brain and prepare to sleep. Or maybe this time would be my toss and turn time until I got to sleep.

      Speaking of getting to sleep. Sometimes what we tell ourselves is so powerful. I went through a spell where sleep was so very difficult. Then it dawned on me. Bedtime is the best time of the day because whatever I worry about there is absolutely nothing I can do about it at that hour of the day. I had an “excuse” for not working on whatever it is, “it’s too late in the day to do anything”. I would tell myself that I was off the hook for the moment. This thought helped me to shut my brain down so I could drift off to sleep.

        1. OhNo*

          I’ve also seen people use those soft pads you put under furniture legs, but those aren’t as good at gripping the floor.

    14. Government Worker*

      It’s not a great long-term solution, but is your home set up so that you and your wife can sleep separately, if she’s waking you up at night? My wife and I have each spent plenty of nights on the (very comfortable) couch trading off baby duty, or when the other is sick and coughing a lot, or just when insomnia strikes and one person’s tossing and turning is keeping the other from getting good sleep. It’s not fantastic for our relationship to do every night, but it can really help when someone’s exhausted.

      Also over-the-counter sleep aids, which aren’t great to use every night but which could help you have a night or two where you fall asleep faster and sleep through disruptions more easily.

      My wife badly broke her leg a few years ago, requiring surgery, and it *sucked*. And it doesn’t sound like that big a deal to other people, but it was a super-hard couple of months for us.

      One minor thing that’s helped us through super-stressful periods: paper plates and plastic utensils. Getting back that few minutes of kitchen cleanup every night for a few weeks helps.

      1. AfterBurner313*

        ^^^^^^^ This.

        My mother was chronically ill. Not dying, but never getting better. We used disposal paper plates (cheap ones) with the china plate under it. Red Solo cups and plastic utensils.

        On those *I’m too brain dead to function* days, it was a god send.

        We also had people make dinners and put them in our chest freezer. It was so nice to pull out a dinner and microwave it. You can also freeze things like breads, cakes, cookies and alike. It cuts down on shopping.

        See if your pharmacy has a delivery service.

        Ask your church if there is a teen ager who will do light cleaning. My nephew does this. He’s trust worthy, does what the people want and likes this side gig. Vacuuming, sweeping and cleaning up the bathroom is usually what is clients want.

        There is a website (can’t think it of the name), that let’s you coordinate volunteers. I know people use it for things like meal trains and taking people to chemo appointments. This way you let people know exactly what you need, and they can figure out when they can do it.

        Good luck! I have been in your shoes and it sucks.

    15. Anon Sleep Apnea sufferer*

      Three things: (1) forget about the non-essential chores. No one cares if your toilet is spotless or your rugs are vacuumed. Focus on the essentials. Allow yourself to take the easy way out sometimes (buy a frozen pizza for dinner and don’t stress about it). (2) Call your friends and ask for help when you need it. While the offers have dried up, people are still going to be glad to help you if you ask. They didn’t dry up because people aren’t willing to help, they dried up because people don’t know how to help. (3) Make sure you don’t have a sleep problem. I was literally falling asleep at the office and assumed it was stress. Turns out I had sleep apnea. I’m a 36 year old woman – sleep apnea is not just for old men.

    16. JJJJShabado*

      I have similar issues (I have 3 small children). What I find helps me is that I go out for lunch every day and I have a specific podcast that I listen to that helps me unwind. It helps to break up the day. I buy lunch, but regardless if you bring your lunch, getting away helps if you can.

    17. Leslie Knope*

      I am so sorry! This sounds like so much.

      I definitely echo the suggestions above. When I’m really stressed out to the max I start by taking a sick day. Use the day to take a nap, do a few things that make you feel better, and then make a plan. When I’m refreshed and not sleep deprived it’s a lot easier to make choices.

      – Can you hire someone to come deep clean twice a month? That way all you have to do is just the bare minimum of maintenance?
      – Can you maybe try a brisk walk at lunch and cut out the workout after work for that day?
      – In particularly stressful times I’ve tried to work out what I could plan ahead for the week. This has involved doing meal prepping one day (and I’m talking very easy meal prep here) so that all you have to do is reheat food or grab it out of the fridge? Could you try some crockpot stuff so you don’t have to worry about cooking? What about paper plates, etc.?

      As far as staying awake, I find that ice water helps jolt me awake. I also will go for a brisk walk around the block or around the floor to help get me awake. But on days when it’s really bad (or I have a terrible headache) I will nap in my car during lunch. I feel silly doing it but even 20 minutes helps me get through the day.

    18. Swimmergurl*

      Hire help for cleaning and other chores. I recently started hiring help and was astounded at the improvement in my mental health.

    19. Trout 'Waver*

      For me, staying hydrated is really important when I’m tired. If I’m worn out and I get dehydrated, I can barely keep my eyes open.

    20. LizB*

      Lots of good suggestions in this thread. My go-to for combating sleepiness is cold water in little sips.

      Also, I apologize if this is weird, but I seem to remember you’re in the Minneapolis area, which is also where I live. If I’m right about that, and there’s anything I can do to pitch in, please send me an email (linked in my username). I have a car and some spare time to run errands or whatever you need.

    21. LCL*

      Ask your wife if she would be up for folding the laundry if you brought it to her. That might help her feel like she is contributing.

      As others have said, you might be able to find some help at your church if you told them you still need help.

      Reconsider your gym time. Still use that time for ‘you’ time, but other things than the gym. Like going to bed two hours earlier. Or just sitting down staring into space, it sounds weird but sometimes I have to withdraw from the world to deal with the stress of it all. It sounds like your body is telling you right now that you need more rest. A month vacation from workouts won’t hurt you.

      Maybe part of the cause of your sleeping difficulties isn’t the physical things happening, it’s the stress of being responsible for everything. Be good to yourself.

      Depending on what you are feeding the kitties, could you dish out the food the night before then put the dishes in the fridge? Then when they meow, give them their dishes and go back to bed. Or try staying up after you feed them. for me, going to bed for only 30-60 minutes when I am still tired makes me tired and angry, not rested.

    22. hankypanky*

      As a wife with chronic illness with a husband who helps me to no end — you rock!

      Okay , so I saw this product called No Doze which goes around your ear and vibrates when you nod off at the wheel. My husband has a real problem with falling asleep whenever he sits still.

      I use ear plugs at night to block out the cat noises, etc.

      Have you considered weekly meal delivery — like Freshly? My husband hates cooking. We also use Kroger Click list for groceries. No more grocery shopping. And Amazon for basically anything else.

      This too shall pass. Hang in there!

    23. Colette*

      You’ve had an awful year.

      If your spouse broke her leg below the knee, have you considered a knee scooter? They take a lot less energy to use (so there’s more energy for other stuff) and they’re stable, so she would be able to (for example) bend over and pick stuff up. Renting one made a huge difference in what I was able to do last summer.

    24. The Nutritionist*

      There are lots of excellent ideas here.
      I came here to recommend foods and supplements.
      Foods
      Eat lots of fresh organic fruits and vegetables. Limit night shades (many folks have allergies).
      Make sure you are drinking enough water. If possible, it is best to drink half your body weight in oz.
      Supplements (I recommend Garden of Life mykind organics / I don’t work for this company, I just like their product)
      Vit B complex, 100 mg of each major B vit twice daily
      Vit C, 4000 mg daily (can increase to 10,00 0 mg. if well tolerated)
      CoQ10, 60 mg daily
      Magnesium, start with 1 cap / 400 mg in the evening (The best forms are the ates, including malate, citrate, and aspartate)
      Multivitamin and mineral complex, follow directions on bottle
      Herbs such as astragalus to improve adrenal gland function and aids in stress reduction (use under the care of a health practitioner)
      Milk thistle extract to aid liver and adrenal function
      As a sleep aid
      Melatonin, 1 mg 30 minutes before bed. Use for 3 days only.
      OR
      Hyland’s Calms Forte (follow instructions on bottle)
      Chamomile tea, 4 oz. before bed
      Before starting any herbs or supplements, please check with a medical or holistic health practitioner to make sure you will not have any adverse reactions. Good Luck!

  18. EvilQueenRegina*

    I feel as if I am being micromanaged by someone who is not my manager.

    We have a shared mailbox for incoming work, and when someone is picking up a piece of work we mark our names against it. My one co-worker Ruby has started going through it and allocating work to us – “Ooh, there’s an email here from Wakeen about teapots, can I put your name to it, Regina?” being the typical comment – even though we all prefer to manage our workload ourselves and put our own names next to things. She has been asked not to do this and did stop for a while but has now started up again.

    We are meant to work through this mailbox in date order. She will also flag things as “urgent” when sometimes there is no clear reason why, and if she has marked something (which anyone can do) as urgent and yet ignored it herself to work in date order, it just confuses us about why she has flagged it. Again, our manager has spoken to her about this but she has continued.

    If she finds, or thinks she finds, that someone has made a mistake, no matter how minor it is she will immediately go running to our manager, usually in the middle of the open plan office so everyone can hear it. Often these are either things so minor as to not really warrant that, or no mistake was made at all i.e. her saying a letter hadn’t been sent but she was looking in the wrong place.

    I know that in her own mind she thinks she is being helpful, but we don’t need or want her to allocate our work, she is not our manager, or been authorised by our manager to do so. The problem with speaking to her directly about this is that she is someone who will take this very personally (she will go all silent and/or start banging things about – someone did say she prefers to put her own name to things today and Ruby banged her mug down) so it’s hard to know how to word it without causing offence, or are we best just raising it with our manager (who has been on holiday this week which has meant an increase in this behaviour) and letting her deal with it?

    1. Dawn*

      You can’t tell her to knock it off without offending her, which is HER problem and not yours!

      Could you just ignore it? Go all “Grey Rock” with responses to her until she gets bored and gives up? I’m thinking things like “I’m tracking my own work, Regina”, “I’ve got a handle on it Regina”, “I check the mailbox regularly Regina” as generic answers to anything she says to you regarding the mailbox. Just super generic, super boring, doesn’t really answer anything kinda responses.

      As for her running to the manager, seriously don’t worry about that. That is the classic hallmark of an office busybody so unless your manager is being a total stickler about never ever making a tiny minor mistake ever it’s the kind of behavior that’s best met with an eyeroll from you.

      1. Trix*

        I was wondering about ignoring it too. Like, just literally ignoring her flags, whether it’s “Urgent” or “Regina,” and going about working the inbox like you would (including adding, removing, or changing flags to whatever they actually ought to be).

        If she calls you out on it, just remind her that she’s been asked to knock it off by your manager, and you’re just going about your business as if she had.

        1. Trix*

          Oh, and if she marks something as Urgent, assume she will follow up with it. If she doesn’t, that’s on her, not you.

    2. Sadsack*

      I say maybe do both. Definitely tell her you prefer to manage your workload on your own way. If she bangs her mug, so what? But if she becomes more combative and difficult to work with, like not providing something you need, etc., then go back to your manager and tell him about that.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      Ok, my take on this kind of personality is that you will get the same reaction from “Jane” NO MATTER HOW YOU CRAFT YOUR RESPONSE. You could be Ralph Waldo Emerson, Abraham Lincoln, and [your favorite lyricist here] and it wouldn’t make any difference, b/c this personality type is pre-programmed to find offense and react childishly. So, just take that as a given. With that in mind, I’d suggest 2 things: (1) continue documenting as you are doing but quantify what the impact on the workflow is (e.g., spent 10 min talking with her or with other colleagues about why Msg X was flagged as URGENT which delayed responses on 6 other items by 15 min.) and (2) try one more time to be as matter-of-fact as possible about what you want her to do ending with that (should-be-trademarked) AAM question “Can you do that from now on?” and get (hopefully a positive) response from her. Oh, and (3) try really, really hard not to care about “causing her offence,” b/c SHE’S causing offence all over the place, and apparently doesn’t have a care in the world about it, so why should you?

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        Sorry, meant to add that the reason why you want to quantify the impact of her busybodiness on the work flow is that, inevitably, you all will probably have to go back to the manager at some point, and if everyone’s been documenting this, you will be ale to say “Jane’s” slowing down the workflow by x hours y times per week. It’s delaying our responses to clients by z minutes/hours b/c we have to take time from handling the inbox to clarify ownership, it’s preventing professional development on A, B, and C topics (“I’m trying to train Fergus on improving his handling of PDQ-type emails, and Jane keeps taking them, then not doing anything with them.”), it’s … you get the picture. Try to put numbers to as much of the problems as you can, so your supervisor has a solid measurement that s/he can understand easily.

      2. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

        This is the point I was going to make. No matter what OP does, Regina is going to have tantrums. Might as well get the problem solved and still deal with the tantrum rather than suffer through tantrums AND micromanagement.

    4. KellyK*

      Putting her heart in a box and *making* her quit assigning you work will probably not fly in a professional environment.

      Unfortunately, she’s going to take it how she’s going to take it. I think since you’ve seen people bring it up with her and get nowhere, it’s time to take it to your manager.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Recognize what is going on here. She is using her temper to manipulate you all into doing what SHE wants.
      I would say things like, “There’s no need to slam your mug around. This is a fairly basic request between two professionals. It’s an office norm that coworkers politely ask each other for things. Slamming your mug down (or whatever else) does not fit within a normal office environment.”

      If someone can do blatant misbehaviors, I can do explanations of the obvious. I think they left themselves wide open for it.

      The other thing you can do, is you can say, “I get my instructions from my boss. You are not my boss.” Keep repeating this. And keep the boss looped in, it may take daily intervention to get her to stop. Be prepared for this reality. I have gone to the boss and said things such as, “I know you told Jane not to assign me work. Well today Jane assigned work to me AGAIN. So I told her she was not my boss and I would not be accepting assignments from her.” Just telling the boss that you had to say this can be enough to nudge the boss to upgrade whatever she is doing about the situation.

    6. Trout 'Waver*

      If someone without the authority to assign you work is trying to assign you work that you don’t want, just tell them to ask your manager. “Wakeen has given us clear instructions on the priority of our assignments, Ruby. If you think I should be working on something else, you need to bring it up with him.”

      Also, go ahead and cause offense. It’s her issue that she can’t handle professional communication. Not yours.

    8. LCL*

      Controlling annoying coworker going all silent when you call them on their actions is a feature not a bug…

      She is making sure you don’t confront her. If you don’t want to battle with her, bring it directly to manager. It really is manager’s job to deal with her. If you don’t mind the aggravation, continue to call her on her behavior.

    9. Hrovitnir*

      This is so childish it’s actually impressive. My sympathies – I agree there is no way to approach this that won’t result in sulking. I think you have to choose between asking her politely not to do it (and asking the manager to keep stepping in whenever she backslides), probably indefinitely, or ignoring her and telling her “Ruby, you know we assign our own work, please stop doing it for me” or similar when she puts you on the stop. It’s gonna be awkward but that is so on her, and she has been explicitly told not to do it by management so it’s really not a grey area here.

  19. Anony Non*

    Finally got up the nerve to be more direct in asking for performance feedback and finally got somewhere!

    I’m very anxious and hate feeling like I’m “nagging” when I have to follow up multiple times on non urgent matters. I hem and haw about how soon is too soon and how long is too long.

    I’m also very nervous about pursuing promotions and raises because right now most of my work tasks are maintenance-tasks. Nothing I have an opportunity to shine at or innovate.

    I definitely need more confidence and assertiveness in the workplace because it does get results! Any advice on getting into that mode more?

    1. LQ*

      Strangely it really helps me to think of that as my job. Part of my job is being confident about my work. Part of my job is being assertive and asking for those opportunities to shine. Part of my actual job is talking up the work that I and the team I am a part of do. Part of my job every single day is to follow up multiple times and check in with people to see where they are at.

      When I think of it as my job (which it entirely is! and it is yours too) it becomes much easier. I sort of take myself out of the equation. If this was someone else and they were doing this I would expect them to…

      (The only thing this doesn’t help me for is asking for raises and promotions. But it did help me ask for new projects and tasks, which around here has lead to promotions and raises.)

    2. Not So NewReader*

      If you keep doing this it will become less hard.
      Until then here is what I did. I have told myself that I am responsible for ME. It’s up to me to keep myself employed and keep food on my table. So part of being responsible for ME is making sure I am doing the job well enough to remain employed, firstly and to do the job well enough so the boss thinks I am a valuable employee.

      Shortened version:It’s in my own good interests that I want to be a valued employee, therefore I want the boss’ inputs on what to do to become that valued employee.

      With this in mind, it becomes much easier to find things that I can do. Then I go to the boss and offer to help with X or Y. Or I have figured out what I might do well at and ask the boss to learn that task.
      I have had subordinates do this to me and it was a life saver! I could not see everything at once. When people pointed out they would like to learn X or they thought that they could probably do Y, I would jump at that opportunity. Yes, I did have a blind spot and it was because SO MUCH else was going on. In the end, I would encourage the person asking to always ask me and encourage others to ask me when they wanted.

    3. Trout 'Waver*

      Maintenance tasks are critical to every organization. Keep a log of uptime. Like, “The databases were on-line for 99.8% of business hours in March,” or “100% of accounts were kept paid on time with net-30 terms for 2016.”

      For a lot of maintenance tasks, having them go unnoticed means those tasks are being take care of well.

    4. Director of Things*

      You are keeping things running so the higher ups don’t have to worry about forgetting these things. At least that’s how I feel about my support people. Does it get annoying to not get in 5 minutes of work without someone buzzing me or popping in? Yes. I appreciate it when an employee comes to me with all of the pieces I need to make a decision or, when possible, does a once a day check in with several questions prepared, rather than asking me one question every 7 minutes as they pop into her head.
      Artificial deadlines may help you with the non-urgent matters. Can you ask, “I’d like to have the new Teapot vendors selected by next Friday. Does that sound doable?” Since your issues are non-urgent, you don’t have to stick to that date, but you may be able to get better responses. And then you also have a set date you will follow up for an answer.
      Also, I will say that maintenance tasks can still make a difference. We hired a new office manager a couple months ago, and she is fantastic! She took initiative and totally shined in everything, despite most tasks being things like organizing binders, stocking the conference room fridge, and creating new safety documents. You can excel at whatever job you are doing.
      As for confidence, it takes time, knowledge, practice. The more you show yourself being confident, the easier it will be. And the more you feel knowledgable about your role and contributions, the more confident you’ll be in asserting that. In other words, fake it till you make it!

  20. KL*

    I need some advice on how to gracefully handle a work event. To make a long story short, I have a stress fracture in my foot and about a week ago, my doctor put me in a boot and told me to stay off of it until I go in for my recheck next week. I have been on crutches for about to a week and half. I’m still working my full day, which is thankfully an office job and my coworkers have been helping me with almost everything. However, by the time I hit about 2:30-3:00 pm, even with help, I’m exhausted and it’s noticeable enough that my coworkers have commented about it. On Monday, my grandboss, who is head of our unit, is having a staff appreciation event from 3:00-5:00 pm off-campus. We haven’t been told that it’s mandatory, but our unit will be closing at 2:30 pm that day. My grandboss’s assistant has told me that it should be no problem for me because it’s just eating and sitting, but she seems to be blowing off my mobility issues. Sitting for a couple of hours isn’t too bad, but having to leave my building later in the afternoon, get to my ride, walk into the building (I’m not sure how accessible it is), and then do all that in reverse to meet my husband back on campus so I can go home. Any suggestions? Do I just put a smile on, drink a lot of caffeine before I leave, and try to power through?

    1. Dawn*

      “Oh thank you so much for the invite! Unfortunately, my mobility issues will prohibit me from attending the event, but I hope everyone has a lovely time!”

      You ABSOLUTELY don’t have to go to something non-mandatory! Also, if you get any pushback, say “My doctor told me to stay off of the foot” over and over and over. Yes, you could theoretically be staying off the foot once you got to the event BUT you’d have to be staying ON the foot to get to and from the event and that’s BAD and AGAINST YOUR DOCTOR’S ADVICE and since this is a MEDICAL ISSUE you’ll have to sit this one out ;)

      1. Shayland*

        I second this. And if some one brings up that it’s just a lot of sitting down you can point out that you still have to do some walking to get there and that you don’t know how accessible the building is.

        And, yeah, if someone’s sour about it, just keep bringing up that you and your doctor know what’s best for your well being and that what’s best does not include going to this event.

    2. Ghost Town*

      Is going to the office late the day of the event a possibility? I don’t have experience with a stress fracture, but if you can shift your day “starting” by a couple of hours, would that help delay your exhaustion point for the day?

      Best of luck!

    3. Here we go again*

      Your grandboss’ assistant shouldn’t have any say in what is and isn’t okay for you to attend. She’s probably thinking she is being helpful by telling you that you can sit without thinking through the full logistics. I would talk to your direct manager and say that it isn’t feasible for you to attend, so ask that you be excused or see if there is a way to make the travel easier. Maybe a colleague can pick you up from your house in the morning and drop you off so that you don’t need a ride from your husband.

    4. Soupspoon McGee*

      I just went through this, and my stress fracture turned into a break because I didn’t stay off of it. I managed to get through work by renting a knee scooter. I still needed crutches to get in and out of the house and car, but at least at work and at home, I could roll. This may help with overall fatigue throughout the day. Crutches are exhausting! And I echo others that you don’t have to go to this event if you don’t want to.

      1. Windchime*

        I have to agree about the knee scooter. Not so you can attend the event, but just in general. I was in a boot and non-weight-bearing for 6 weeks and my knee scooter was a god-send. I never got the hang of crutches and yes, they were exhausting.

  21. FDCA In Canada*

    I had the very exciting experience this week of being called for an interview and the interviewer being so excited to speak with me that she basically told me whatever my schedule was she would happily work around it, just as long as she got to meet with me. Quite the thrill! So Monday after work I’ll be going for an interview, since my current job is a mat leave contract until September and it’s getting into crunch time. It would be a slight pay cut and longer commute (from 4 minutes drive to 15), but it’s an interesting, full-time permanent opportunity. I’m excited!

    We’ve also been having the mega-gross debate in the office about whether or not it’s appropriate to use the single-user washroom for anything besides #1. I cannot believe this came up in a team meeting, but it did. The woman who sits at a desk closest to the washroom (which is ventilated by a real fan and a single-user closed-door room), which is about 3 meters away from the door, complains constantly and ceaselessly that people are “rude” to do so. She believes employees should use the washroom next door in our annex for non-urinary needs, which requires going outside, unlocking the door with a key, disarming the alarm, and potentially disrupting anyone renting the annex for the day (even though the washroom is secluded in the back). This doesn’t do anything about the clients who use the office washroom for everything, though, so we’ve been quietly ignoring her histrionics on the subject. As far as I’m concerned the washroom is a cone of total privacy and there are no circumstances where we should be policing what goes on in there. But it comes up. At every single monthly team meeting and periodically during the month other than that. Thankfully she’s never brought it up before clients in the office, but…still. I cannot believe grown adults are having this debate.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      What are her reasons? Noises? Smells? If it’s the former, get her a white noise machine. If it’s the latter, invest in a (mild) automatic air freshener. Otherwise… she’s wrong.

      1. LizB*

        If it’s a smell thing, my best friend swears by Poo-Pourri spray. But really, someone just needs to tell this person to get over herself. If she had just asked to switch desks away from the restroom, I’d have some sympathy, but complaining over and over that people are “rude” to perform normal bodily functions in a normal place for them? Ridiculous.

      2. Caro in the UK*

        Yeah, I agree.

        I’ve been the person who sat closest to a single occupancy bathroom and it was… not nice. I could hear and smell far more than I (or anyone) wanted to :( It was not pleasant and made even drinking tea at my desk nauseating.

        But I never thought the people using a washroom for its intended purpose were rude! But I was so very happy to move desks when I finally could. If there’s anything you can do to either mitigate any sounds and smells, or move her desk at all, then I’d look into doing that as a kindness to anyone who has to work in that area.

      3. Zathras*

        Agreed, it’s ridiculous to suggest that people can’t use the bathroom for its intended purpose. But if proximity to the bathroom is making this person’s working environment unpleasant, that also needs to be taken seriously and dealt with.

      4. FDCA In Canada*

        It’s definitely not noise–the bathroom fan is very loud and powerful, which actually helps to dispel smells very quickly–but we aren’t able to use air freshener in the office due to clients and staff with scent allergies. So instead we have the fan, a bad air sponge in the bathroom, and we just rely on keeping the fan on as much as possible. I am generally able to smell just about anything, and I’ve never noticed anything after about five minutes, but realistically I don’t see any way to stop people from using the bathroom for its intended purpose, regardless!

        1. Observer*

          It might help to put an open box of baking soda in the bathroom and change it fairly often. Baking soda does a nice job of absorbing nasty smells if you change it often enough and it’s not a scent masking other scents so you don’t have the issue of scent sensitivity.

    2. i2c2*

      Wow. I’d hate to use that bathroom under this person’s way-too-interested nose, but also, how do you make it through this topic (repeatedly!) at meetings without giggling?

    3. Esme Squalor*

      As someone with a chronic illness that gives IBS-like symptoms, this kind of bathroom vigilantism at work is the stuff of nightmares. I would be mortified if one of my colleagues started monitoring bathroom habits in this manner.

    4. Peanut*

      I’m torn, because on the one hand, people should do whatever they need to in a bathroom. On the other hand, I currently work in a small office and there is, um, an office pooper who regularly uses the bathroom for this purpose and does not use the air freshener spray. The smell is so bad from where I sit that I’ve tried opening the door for fresh air but mostly I just suffer.

      Sometimes it’s just as bad when people use the air freshener – maybe I have an amazing sense of smell, but the air fresheners here just seem to replace the stink with a different, sickly sweet kind of stink so either way, I just feel sick for a portion of the day.

      1. Zathras*

        Can you bring it to management’s attention? Not the pooping, but the fact that you can smell it from your desk. Like, “Is there anything we can do about the bathroom ventilation? I’ve noticed the smells from the bathroom are reaching my desk, and it can get really unpleasant sometimes.”

        There’s nothing wrong with pooping at work, but you shouldn’t have to smell it.

        1. Peanut*

          I absolutely have. The HR person tried swapping out the spray, I moved my desk further away (but could still smell everything) and in the end, what solved it was that the office pooper’s desk got moved so they now use a different bathroom!! I don’t know what else I could have done if that hadn’t happened, though.

    5. tiny temping teapot*

      Did you coworker write in to this site recently? I swear there was a question about this exact topic.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I find it amazing that she thinks everyone can predict and control when their bowels will move. I doubt anyone can say they have never, ever had a surprise bathroom emergency. Well maybe she can, I don’t know.

      However, my thought is that it is up to the company to provide built in fans and up to the employees to use the fans.

      Maybe she can move her desk away from the bathroom?

      When I read this I thought, “She is telling people not to poop. Good luck with that. Keep doing what you’re doing Jane and let me know how that works out for you.”

      This on-going conversation could get tedious, fast. I think I would tell her if she is having problems with bathroom smells she needs to talk it over with management. I would squelch any further discussion. I would feel like I was enabling her complaining and excusing her lack of action.

    7. Alli525*

      If it’s a regular issue, I think her point may have some weight to it. She’s not presenting it well, but my office bathroom has a visitor who goes #2 at the same time every day (around 10am). For those who ARE regular, I think it’s their duty (hehe) to go before or after work. Emergencies and chronic conditions notwithstanding, a typical small office – the type that only requires one or two single-user bathrooms – shouldn’t have #2s every day.

      Have y’all considered putting up a sign? It’s juvenile, but apparently people need to be reminded to use air freshener.

      1. copy run start*

        Yes, there’s someone who frequents our restroom ~8:10 – 8:30 a.m. and unfortunately the sounds are graphic if the office is quiet. I just keep wondering: can this not occur BEFORE you come here? I understand that sometimes you gotta go and sometimes it’s not pleasant… but… yeah. It’s disruptive to my day.

        At a previous job a coworker would disappear for 1/2 hour to the bathroom, then go to his allotted lunch period so he could get paid to poo. He was very open about it, unfortunately.

        Perhaps a small desk fan to point smells away from the person next to the bathroom would work? Target usually sells a USB-powered desk fan when the college gear comes in, should be any day now actually. It would also help mask any background noise.

      2. PepperVL*

        Okay, but for some people, it’s normal to poop three times a day. If one of those people goes to the bathroom before work and after work, chances are still good that they’ll also need to poop at work. Also, most women poop more on their periods, and again, at least one week a month, they’ll have to use the bathroom for that at work. So even without chronic conditions or emergencies, it’s entirely possible for someone to have to use the restroom for that every day at work.

    8. LCL*

      3 meters from the washroom? I can see why she is complaining endlessly. But she is complaining about the wrong thing. Her desk needs to be moved. In the meantime, keep the restroom door closed at all times. She may be being histrionic, but she will be unable to take the ‘washroom is a cone of total privacy’ POV as long she can see and smell otherwise.

  22. Pup Seal*

    This week was just terrible.

    -Had coffee with a friend who is also a board member of where I work. He told me other board members are mad at founder and CEO. Basically, the board members have given fundraiser suggestions to them, but the founder and CEO refuse to do so because they believe donors should fundraise on our behalf and we shouldn’t have to do any work (this has blown my mind from the start). I knew my friend has been angry at the founder and CEO for a year now, but I didn’t know most of the board was upset.
    -Got sick. Missed 1.5 days of work (at least I missed a terrible meeting)
    -Was told that during the meeting Big Boss said he won’t restore salaries.
    -Came back after being sick to discover the suitcase that holds our brochure stand got ruined from being shipped back from conference.
    -Newsletter got put off AGAIN because higher ups didn’t give me proper information.
    -Had two interviews last week, and they both said I would hear back by this week if I got the job. I didn’t hear back.
    -Grant was declined. That didn’t surprise me. I got us that grant last year, and Big Boss used that money for debt instead of using it for actual project. We didn’t deserve the renewal. I just feel sad that the hard work I put it to get that grant last year was a waste.
    -Learned we are behind 8 months of bills of suppliers who haven’t frozen our accounts yet. We have other accounts that have been frozen for 2 years.
    -Coworker called these two women fat hogs because they make more money than he does. I could rant for this for hours. These women don’t work here, but they have helped us in the past. I wished I could’ve said something, but I cowered.

    The only positives of this week:
    -I have an interview Saturday
    -I wrote my resignation letter. During the 2.5 years of working here, my mental health has greatly declined and I have breakdowns every other day. I’ve decided my health deserves better, and in August I’ll be moving to a different city to live with my boyfriend.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Yep, a resignation letter is the exact correct response to this deluge of crap here. Good for you.
      I wish you all the best on your new start at life in the New City with your BF.

    4. Hrovitnir*

      Good luck with the interview! Also that is all kinds of bad, but the using a grant for debts (???) made me gasp out loud. Fingers crossed you can get out quickly and to a supportive working environment. I’m glad you have a move to look forward to.

  23. Anon for this doozy*

    I’m thinking I need to quit my job without another one lined up and I know that’s generally a mistake but I wanted to throw my reasons out there and see what y’all think. For a while now I’ve felt like I’m being bullied at work by a lot of people, but two in particular. One of which is the manager’s favorite, to the point where other co-workers have pointed it out to me. Well, guess who pulled me into a meeting with HR yesterday? The grandboss that doesn’t like my department, the boss that favors my coworker, and of course the union rep. Oh, and they ambushed me with this, not telling me until half an hour before the meeting and refusing to tell me the topic, which is how discipline issues are usually handled here and I think it’s awful. Apparently she thinks I hate her because I was discussing with her some things about our shared work that we do a specific way for a reason back when she first started, which was over a year ago. Since that time, she has felt uncomfortable eating her lunch in the office with me there (what!!! the actual heck), she has been asking our co-workers why I hate her (yes, she used the word hate), and she has felt like she can’t talk about things with me. Funny, seeing as how she can tell me my face looks weird or my sales numbers are really low. I don’t think there’s any way I can fix this because I obviously can’t confront her about it if I can’t discuss work with her, and my manager does not have my back. So, do you think it’s worth leaving over?

    1. kavm*

      Did you bring all this up in the meeting? I would at least attempt to push back first, not to the coworker, but definitely in that HR meeting.

      1. Anon for this doozy*

        I absolutely did, and the response was that I need to be more understanding of how my words can be misinterpreted

            1. Alli525*

              Because her union rep was there but apparently didn’t have her back or advocate for her in any way that would warrant a mention in OP’s post, I’d guess.

              1. Anon for this doozy*

                Exactly. The union does not have my back, so that’s not going to help me.

    2. Susan*

      Yikes! Do you work at my former employer? This is exactly the kind of thing that happened there, and the main reason I left. Based on my experience, I’d recommend you get out as soon as you can, but if at all possible, try to have another job lined up first.

      Just a question about this disciplinary meeting, though: was the union rep there for you, or on behalf of your coworker who made the complaint against you? If you are in a union, you have the right to bring union representation to any disciplinary meeting if you ask for it (the company’s not required to offer).

    3. LQ*

      Talk to your union rep. They should support you too. (Assuming they represent you and not just coworker.) Hopefully your union rep will be actually helpful for you.

      Can you get a transfer? Move somewhere else within the organization?

    4. Anon for this doozy*

      The union rep is somewhat of a spineless gossip. Like, she’s super nice usually, but it is what it is. And she was just there. Like, not specifically for either of us, as far as I can tell, but just filling a chair.

      1. neverjaunty*

        You may also want to talk to a lawyer who specializes in labor law (for employees). Violation of the duty of fair representation of members is a big freaking deal.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Yep, leave while you still have some idea of how normal adults behave.

      The grand boss, boss, union rep and HR were in one room with you and no one went to bat for you. It might be surmountable, but the battle would be so hard that you probably would ruin your health before you won. The deck is not stacked in your favor at all.

      Try, try, try to keep in mind that very little of this may be your fault. Don’t blame yourself. It’s really easy to blame ourselves. Instead, if you start finding fault with yourself, hammer out an action plan for the next time X situation occurs and how you will handle it differently. Then move away from the blame game and take good care of you.

  24. Manders*

    It’s my last day at my old job! I ended up in a position that’s perfect for the direct I want to go in, my boss will allow me to work remotely on occasion so I can spend more time with my parents, and it’s a $13k raise. Not too shabby.

    I’m taking the high road and make sure my boss has all my passwords, I’m revoking my own access to company accounts, etc. But the comments in this week’s article about the employee who wanted to sabotage her files did inspire me to be honest with my soon-to-be former coworkers about how much I was offered, and I told some of them I’d be willing to be their reference if they’re looking to move on.

  25. the gold digger*

    You work for SmallCompany, Inc. LargeCompany Inc acquires SmallCompany.

    At SmallCompany, all employees have five personal days a year. When you hired Shavonne, you told her that although you could not give her all the vacation she wanted, she would have five personal days so that was like five more vacation days.

    LargeCompany issues a change: No more personal days. Only sick days, seven per year. And you have to be sick to take them. They do not roll over.

    The questions:

    1. What does LargeCompany really think will happen? Do they think that total days taken will decline?
    2. As Shavonne’s boss, how would you prefer she take her sick days? By putting them on the calendar a month or two in advance? Or by calling in the day of?

    Additional information: SmallCompany employees are almost all salaried, no overtime. Many of them travel a lot and can spend weeks, if not months, away from home every year.

    1. Rebecca*

      I can tell you what will happen. Shavonne (and every other employee) will take all 7 sick days, whether or not they are actually sick.

      I witnessed this and do it myself. Same sort of situation. I’m non-exempt, and when the company I work for was purchased by another company, our sick days were reduced from 7 to 5, no payout for unused sick days, and our vacation time did not roll over any longer. Previously, if we used zero sick days throughout the year, we received a week’s extra pay in December. If we used any sick time, we were paid for half of what was left. We could roll over 5 days of vacation from year to year. It was a great benefit.

      Now, vacation does not roll over and we don’t get paid for unused sick days, so we take them all. Granted, some use them for doctor’s appointments (you have to use 1/2 day increments so people make appointments early on Friday afternoons), or they just call off whenever. So people still end up taking all their time off, the company isn’t really saving any money, and there is less planning involved. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

    2. Paige Turner*

      By “you have to be sick to take them,” does that mean that you can’t use a sick day for a doctor’s appointment that is scheduled in advance, for example?

      If so, that’s not cool (and I have no separate sick days myself, just PTO) and I can see why Shavonne is unhappy. I’d prefer to have them on the calendar, sure, but if that would cause problems with LargeCo, then I’d say Shavonne should just call in day of, with maybe a verbal heads-up a few days in advance if she feels comfortable doing so, as in, “Hmmm boss, I haven’t been feeling well lately- might need to take a sick day on Friday if I’m not better by then cough cough.”

    3. SL #2*

      1. SmallCompany’s employees will all have moved on to other jobs by December 31st this year and LargeCompany is going to react in shock and act like those employees are traitors for wanting to leave their amazing jobs.
      2. If I were Shavonne’s boss, I would want the advance notice of which days she wanted to take (verbally) and then the day of, maybe an email saying “not feeling well” just to have that documentation.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        It almost looks like Large Company is a vulture. Large Company wants to empty out Small Company employees and just keep the assets of the company.

    4. Trix*

      For your second question, I’d say I’d want her call in day before or morning of when needed, but of course encourage her to schedule appointments or “appointments” in advance and put them on the calendar.

      Does Shavonne get any vacation time? What was the difference between vacation and personal days in the old system?

      1. the gold digger*

        Shavonne gets vacation, which accrues until the max and then stops accruing. The only way to lose vacation is by not taking it once you have hit the max. Vacation varies by years of service.

        Everyone, however, got five personal days that they could use for whatever reason – “I want a day off right now” – and whenever. They were use them or lose them by the end of the calendar year. You didn’t have to be sick or have a medical appointment to take them. With the new sick days, if you are out three days or more, you need a note from a doctor.

        Again – these are all professionals who travel a lot and who work long hours, for which they are not paid OT.

    5. LQ*

      Honestly? If she was really good? I’d just tell her to let me know she’ll be hard to reach for that day and not put in for them. She’s salaried and I assume she’s doing her job well away from home for months of the year. (It might not be perfect but neither is anything else in that scenario.) I might also make sure that Shavonne knows that I would be an excellent reference for her and really hope for the best for her in her career.

      LargeCompany clearly thinks human beings are like tissues.

    6. Lehigh*

      I would personally prefer that she call in the day of, so that Shavonne and I never have to discuss our new definition of “sick”–or, at least, aren’t making our new definition obvious to the casual observer.

  26. Daria Grace*

    I work in an open plan office where managers don’t have their own private offices. My manager talks loudly and at great length which is becoming a distraction from focusing on our huge workloads. Sometimes it’s about work stuff but often she’s discussing unrelated personal interests with her favourite team members. I know a few other people are bothered by it too. Is there a way I can tactfully deal with this issue or do I just have to accept that this is how my manager is? Sometimes she is okay with feedback but sometimes she reacts badly

  27. Fabulous*

    I haven’t had enough work to fill my days for the past week, so I’m taking a half-day today! Woohoo!

  28. SkrinkoBiloba*

    What actual words do you say when you fire someone?

    I have to terminate someone on my team soon for attendance/unreliability issues. Trying to find the right way to put it. They will argue a fair amount, despite having had plenty of warnings, flexibility, and opportunities to improve. What do I say and how do I structure the conversation?

  29. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Now that you can collapse replies to any level comment (not just to top-level comments), it’s a little harder to distinguish top-level comments from replies. So I’m looking at ways to make top-level comments stand out a little more now and I’m torn between three options for dividing them from replies. If you’re interested in giving input, you can see the three options here:

    http://imgur.com/a/Zn2vD

    Input welcome!

    2. Giles*

      I’ve noticed that too – I sometimes can’t tell which is the original comment and which is the subcomment. I love the dashed lines.

    4. Allypopx*

      Option 1 – to clarify, the bold lines would just be between top level comments and encompass the whole thread? Like now, just bolder?

    8. Emmie*

      I like #1 the best because it’s a strong visual divider. Then #3 and then #2. All are fine though! Thanks for asking!

    9. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I like option #1; the solid line looks a little heavier than it does now, and I think the visual demarcation helps.

    11. Myrin*

      Now I feel weird because I don’t think it’s any harder at all to distinguish different-level comments!

      But looking at the three provided options, I like the last one the best.

    12. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      1, for sure. It’s clean, crisp, easily readable, doesn’t create eye strain in the way that the patterns do. This will be a nice update!

    13. Antilles*

      Option 1 is the most noticeable without being overly obtrusive, so I like it the best.

      Also, Option 3 seems to have way too much white space so it’d be easy to miss, so I’d specifically vote *against* that one.

    19. Ihmmy*

      I like 2 the best with 3 a close second. It’s a little softer than just a solid black line (though even if the line were grey instead I think it would look a little nicer, but I seem to be not a fan of solid black lines)

      1. JaneB*

        they’re all stronger than the current line, and would be fine – I like the solid one best though, it’s easier to see on a phone

    27. Agile Phalanges*

      Do you have examples with the comments expanded? I assume that’s more the point, as with them collapsed, every visible comment is a top-level comment. I assume the lines would only be between top-level comments and the comments above them, whether top- or sub-level? I definitely prefer the look of #1, just wondering how it looks expanded.

    29. Not So NewReader*

      Option one, please.

      Even option one appears light on my screen. The dots and dashes are very difficult to see.
      The current line is about as dark as a very light pencil mark. Can you bold option one?

      Thanks for working on this!

      1. Peanut*

        Yeah, I feel so old, but none of the options looked very different from the current site! They all look faint. I just want a super dark line.

    34. Hermione*

      I like Option 2, but based on the majority’s preferences I now wonder if I have bad taste…

    37. Engineering Manager*

      I know this wasn’t one of the options listed, but could you have some kind of color indication, maybe alternate colors for the top level comments so it easy to see where the threads start, then maybe have the line that is to the side of all of the replies with that same color.

    38. Optimistic Prime*

      I liked the dashed line the best – I feel like it draws the eye to it more, making it easy to see the distinguishing line.

    40. Fafaflunkie*

      I’m wondering if WordPress will allow you to “box” the entire thread to a comment, a la Reddit? If so, that would be the way I’d go. Subthreads to the main thread would find their way in its own box etc. etc. etc.

  30. Athena X*

    Does your workplace encourage neurodiversity?

    I work with children and teens with autism, and I am curious to know how many workplaces actually encourage or promote understanding of autism or other conditions. Are atypical social behaviors like lack of eye contact, mild hand flapping, or standing too close to someone tolerated if the person can do the job?

    1. Librarian of the North*

      Mine does and those social behaviours are fine if the person can do the job (or a modified version of the job even). There is someone with autism and two other people with other conditions. We don’t openly discuss it though.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      My organization has a neurodiversity employee resource group. I’m not a member, so I don’t know what they cover in regular meetings, but they have also hosted several educational events that I’ve attended.

      I haven’t had any experience with someone with atypical social behaviors, but I hope that with increasing awareness at my org that folks would get curious about how to adapt to diverse social presentations rather than provide pushback to individuals.

    3. SaviourSelf*

      We have a lot of people that wouldn’t fit with societal “norms” but they are an asset to their job and we value what they bring to the company. I cannot think of any that would be deal-breakers for us as long as they can do the job or a modified version of the job.

    4. JustaCPA*

      Don’t know that we “encourage” it but we have the son of an employee with autism (the son, not the employee) who works here. I also work in a very techy place with lots of engineers and it wouldnt surprise me to find out that quite a few of them have Asperger or some other forms of high functioning autism…

    5. AthenaC*

      I believe we do, based on some of the new hires I’ve seen.

      The problem is that a legitimate part of our job is polish and professionalism while navigating situations with clients. Certain of our new hires are noticeably more difficult to coach in this regard than others, and so far my experience has been that they don’t improve in this area. Not sure if it’s because of a misguided “this is WHO I AM and I am PERFECT” sentiment or what, but these individuals tend not to work out.

    6. Tau*

      I’m an autistic adult. I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say that my workplace “encourages” neurodiversity, but I feel reasonably well supported. It helps that I’m in tech, in a role that’s often stereotyped as not socially skilled – there’s a bit more tolerance for social weirdness there than there might be otherwise, and it’s enough for me to manage. It’s also very common for my job to never talk to clients or any external people, which again tends to grant you more leeway.

      One thing I’d like to point out that often gets overlooked in these discussions is that there’s more to accommodating autistic employees than being tolerant of social oddities. Ex: I could not work a job that has a fixed start time. It would be a disaster. I have executive dysfunction issues that translate to chronic lateness, but because we have flexible start times and I’m an early bird no one knows that I consistently arrive 5-10 (and on bad days 30) minutes after the time I meant to. Similarly, sensory issues can be debilitating, and a job with too much noise or the wrong sort of lighting could become excruciating. And that’s just the things I can think of off the top of my head.

    7. Mimmy*

      I haven’t heard officially that my employer (a state-run facility) encourages neurodiversity, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does, even subconsciously. I’m not diagnosed as being on the spectrum, but I do have some difficulties that are similar, such as sensory issues and some social awkwardness. My supervisor knows about some of this and she has been supportive. There are other staff and one intern who have atypical presentations as well.

    8. Optimistic Prime*

      Mine does, and we have a special hiring program for adults with autism in an effort to promote that diversity. I’ve worked with several people on different teams who have autism and other development disorders who have physical tics and some of the social awkwardness (lack of eye contact, standing too close). Yes, people are quite forgiving of it here.

    9. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      In terms of being able to perform the job functions (which are very difficult), yes.

      It’s really, really common to see folks with various types of stim devices in my office. My manager teases me about mine (I use silly putty) but I’ve made it clear that the teasing is acceptable and welcome. The attitude is pretty much that the job is difficult enough, so as long as whatever you do to help you work better isn’t a massive disruption for anyone else, you’re fine.

    10. Athena X*

      Thanks for all of these responses! I live in a very liberal area, so it’s nice to hear this from a geographically diverse set of people. It’s very encouraging.

  31. Librarian of the North*

    I’m interested to hear what others would do in this situation. My Husband was hired a year ago at an established company that wanted to bring their brand North. He used his contacts in the business to get the company running and himself and his team have been smashing their targets. Now that he has used his contacts to get them established in a new town the company has turned around and eliminated his position, offering back a lower title with almost all of the same duties at 65% of his old pay. He was pissed but took the new offer because we have a new baby at home to provide for and I’m on mat leave. He fully believes they intended to use him all along.

    Today he has a very promising second interview at a different company with a wage range of his previous wage to plus 10k. But this position is a 6 month contract with possible permanence following if they have enough work. This is a very large company and they said that of the last 5 people hired for this job all have been offered a permanent position. Would you stay at the shady company for less money but with the stability of a permanent position (I mean realizing they are shady and could fire you on a whim) or take the contract leading to possible permanent for more money?

    2. Betsy*

      I’d take it. Even if you have to move on in 6 months, it sounds like he has a good network where he can probably find work. Better to move up in the world when you can. Also, the other job doesn’t scream security.

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      Totally agree with paul and Betsy. Only good can come from your husband getting his salary level back up to a more-competitive height. Which will put him in a much better position when negotiating for his *next* salary bump, however that happens.

    4. Ophelia Bumblesmoop*

      Take it. They are shady and you cannot trust them. If a permanent position is not coming, he can find something better.

    5. ginger ale for all*

      He should take the interview. He proved that he can be a rainmaker at the Brand North Company and they didn’t treat him fairly for it. He can most likely prove his worth to the second company as well.

    6. Iris Eyes*

      That is a pretty personal decision. Personally even as change and risk averse as I am, I’m leaning toward the new position. Resentment at current company will probably lead to a lack of stability and performance, and there isn’t a guarantee of permanence anywhere. If y’all have been making things work at his current salary then I would personally keep living at that level and banking the rest so that if he doesn’t continue at least you have a really good cushion that will allow you both to figure out where to go from there without worrying about your family’s immediate needs.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Great advice. As a risk adverse person myself this would be something I would seriously consider.

        When a company shows you who they are, believe them.

      2. Librarian of the North*

        That’s the hesitation. I’m quite risk averse, he is slightly less risk averse. We can live at his current salary (not a lot of extras but we’re making it) so we could save almost 2 months of expenses in the 6 months. But 2 months isn’t actually that long in the job hunting world. He’s an excellent networker but his field isn’t huge. However the company he left before this (he was there for 10 years) fell apart without him and have asked him to come back so that’s a possibility if this falls through as well. But we’re both a little bit like “Eep! Changes!” Lol.

      1. Librarian of the North*

        I replied to this but it must have been eaten so ignore if this comes up twice.

        I do not have benefits but living in Canada we just need dental and prescription coverage which is about $120 a month.

    8. Ghost Town*

      I’d lean towards take the contract position. It is the better move forward. And you may be going back to work before the 6 months are up, which may take the pressure off his salary.

      1. Librarian of the North*

        I will be going back at exactly 6 months from now which actually makes the choice more difficult. I’m part-time and with the price of childcare I actually make more on EI on mat leave than I would back at work and paying for daycare/a babysitter. But there’s lots of variables, he may not even get an offer so it’s all conjecture at this point.

        1. Mobuy*

          But if he doesn’t get the job, he will be the stay at home parent until he does get the job, so you won’t actually have to pay for childcare, right?

  32. kavm*

    I recently got promoted and was involved in the process of hiring my replacement. I was a marketing coordinator, a position in which I almost exclusively used the Adobe Creative Suite – InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop. One candidate we interviewed had literally NO experience with Adobe. Despite my speaking up against hiring her, she is the one who was hired for the position. She has been in it for 3 weeks now. I spent two full days training her in person (she is at a remote location). I do not mind questions, but the questions she brings to me make it clear she took no notes during training. Since it is still early in her time here, I’m not sure if I should speak up. Even if I did speak up I’m not sure what could be done. She was hired with full knowledge that she didn’t have this crucial knowledge, and against my advice. The frustration is that I now have to give her such basic step-by-step instructions that it is detracting from the time I can spend in my new position. Any advice?? Should I let it go and try to remain optimistic? Should I speak to her supervisor? Should I speak to my supervisor about how much of my time this is taking up? I find myself increasingly frustrated with this situation.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I have a couple of questions: Can you create a document to answer her questions? Is she supposed to be creating new documents or editing existing? I taught myself to use Adobe with tutorials, so maybe redirect her to some online tutorials? Keep track of how much time you’re spending on this?

      I’m not particularly good with learned helplessness, so you’re in a peculiar position. If you’re being kept from doing your job because you’re helping with this person, I would definitely ask your supervisor how to juggle the competing priorities at a minimum.

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        Agree about asking the supervisor (great advice) and directing her to tutorials online. Adobe’s website and youtube would be the best place to start as a beginner, but if she has to be creating new (not standard) materials creating a document would be harder. I use Creative Suite and wouldn’t even know where to start to begin to teach it to other’s who need to be proficient in it for a job. Ugh!

      2. kavm*

        Thanks for answering! At this point I think it would be a waste to create a document, because so far she has needed help on things like resizing images so that the aspect ratio isn’t warped, which to me is so basic that I wouldn’t even think to include it or other things on that level. I will definitely point her in the direction of tutorials and ask my supervisor for some guidance.

      3. Nieve*

        This is absolutely ridiculous, I’ve used Photoshop, Illustrator and Lightroom on a pretty regular basis for a hobby (extracurricular volunteer) for the last 7 years, after learning only the basics of Ps and Ai in a two day course in high school. I still wouldnt consider myself knowledgeable enough in any of these (apart from lightroom which is more straightforward) to actually get a job that requires professional skills in these. I mean… even trying to explain each of the steps to do a simple thing would be so time consuming!
        Good luck, hope your manager can actually see how difficult this would be for you

    2. Chriama*

      Talk to your supervisor to get her opinion, then talk to hers (who I’m assuming is your previous supervisor). Be as unemotional as possible.

    3. Princess Carolyn*

      Did the other people involved explain why they hired someone who didn’t have the skills you describe as crucial? Is it possible they want to take this position in a different direction that wouldn’t require much Adobe work? (I’m a little surprised that a title like “marketing coordinator” involves so much design work, but you know how titles can be.) Do they expect this new person to just learn on the fly?

      1. kavm*

        I think they are looking for her to take on some more strictly marketing duties, and the design duties will stay with me. However, she will still be creating brochures and other sales materials which are all created through Adobe. When we met about the candidates everyone else was pretty enthusiastic about her “can-do attitude” and how driven she is. When I brought up this lack of experience the president of the company said something along the lines of, “well she can learn that on the job, how hard can it be?” to which I agree on some level but clearly it’s difficult if I’m having to tell her how to resize an image without jeopardizing its aspect ratio, which I think is intuitive.

        1. kavm*

          By “I agree on some level” that Adobe isn’t hard to learn, I mean that if someone had just a small amount of experience but wasn’t an expert, that would be acceptable and they’d be able to improve pretty quickly. But having no knowledge of it on any level has been a real hindrance.

    4. HisGirlFriday*

      The frustration is that I now have to give her such basic step-by-step instructions that it is detracting from the time I can spend in my new position. Any advice??
      I agree with creating a step-by-step document that she can reference. It will take up your time, though so I’d loop your supervisor in on it, and say, “I find I’m spending X hours per day working with Jane on the Adobe Suite, so I’m going to take Y time today and create how-to guides for her to reference. That does mean that I won’t get to Z project until tomorrow, though, mkay?”

      Should I let it go and try to remain optimistic?
      No.
      Should I speak to her supervisor?
      Yes. You should loop her supervisor AND YOURS in on how much time this is taking every day.
      Should I speak to my supervisor about how much of my time this is taking up?
      Yes. See above — you need your new supervisor to know that you are losing X amount of time per day/week/whatever to helping Jane learn how to do what she shouldn’t have been hired without already knowing.

      Actions have consequences — her supervisor chose to hire someone without the requisite skills, and that means that there will be consequences for that choice.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Right now you’re operating as if you have to be at her beck and call. Unless your new manager has told you that’s true, you don’t. You can say “I can keep supporting you through Wednesday, but after that I really won’t have time anymore.” And you can say, “Sorry, I’m focused on a deadline right now — can’t help.” And you can talk to her boss and say, “I don’t have time to give Jane the level of support she seems to need.”

      1. kavm*

        Thanks, Alison. I tend to struggle with overthinking and being afraid that I will come across as rude. I think I needed a re-calibration that you and others here have helped with. Thanks for the scripts!

        1. AWall*

          Can you suggest at the same time that your company pays to send her on a training course for the software outside of work? Plenty of schools/colleges/private education places offer training in Adobe software and she would hopefully find it beneficial.

    6. jason*

      Oh man. Adobe is such a standard for creatives. It seems very odd that someone would be hired with such little experience in the area.

    7. copy run start*

      CS is hard to learn in two days, no matter how good you are. I self-taught primarily by just pressing buttons, following online tutorials, etc. But that took a while, like years, to become comfortable working professionally with it. And even then I was never in an actual marketing position. Maybe I would’ve picked it up faster in the role, but I can still understand being lost lost lost staring at those blank screens and rows of buttons.

      I would point her to some free references/tutorial sites online, recommend a few online training courses (there are literally tons) that she can work through and wash your hands of it.

    8. Nieve*

      This is absolutely ridiculous, I’ve used Photoshop, Illustrator and Lightroom on a pretty regular basis for a hobby (extracurricular volunteer) for the last 7 years, after learning only the basics of Ps and Ai in a two day course in high school. I still wouldnt consider myself knowledgeable enough in any of these (apart from lightroom which is more straightforward) to actually get a job that requires professional skills in these. I mean… even trying to explain each of the steps to do a simple thing would be so time consuming!
      Good luck, hope your manager can actually see how difficult this would be for you
      (Accidentally posted this on a second level comment above :( woops)

  33. Shayland*

    I hope this is okay to post here, it’s about productivity?

    Anyway, I struggle with depression, anxiety, all that good stuff and this summer’s been really rough. I was hospitalized for the first time and the hospital said I couldn’t have my service dog with me.

    The past several days something in my morning routine (brush teeth, clean apartment, mile walk with each dog, physical therapy exercises), my evening routine (brush teeth, RSI exercises, meditate on log), or my goals for the day (write 500 words, train each dog for at least 5 minutes, learn 10 new ASL signs) has fallen through.

    I’ve had to do a lot of traveling and socializing which isn’t really something I’m good at.

    But today just rocked. I got up at 7, fed the dogs, started the laundry, walked a dog (including going to the bank to get more quarters but they were closed at that time), shifted laundry, walked the other dog, busted out my exercises (ow), showered and shaved my head. I sat down with my computer to check up on the blogs I love and what not a little before 10 as a reward for getting everything done.

    When I went back to the bank the teller recognized me and my service dog. He slide two dog treats over the counter and said, “Let’s start you off with this.” And then once my doggo was munching on one he said, “What can I help you with?” And we had a nice chat about the weather so Storm could finish vacuuming up his dog treat crumbs.

    I called my mom and wished her happy birthday (and she assured me I didn’t have latent rabies. Anxiety is just lovely.).

    I’m not sure what’s next for me, but I know it’s going to be a great day.

    7. ..Kat..*

      Please let the bank know how much you appreciate that teller. They took the time to be kind and appreciative of your being a customer.

      1. Shayland*

        Unfortunately if I want to contact the bank (not the branch, I’ll try that next) I need a user ID which I don’t have because I just go to that bank to get quarters for the laundry.

  34. ThursdaysGeek*

    Here is an update on last week’s question about asking to stay at a co-worker’s cabin for the upcoming solar eclipse.

    I am here in the same office as him, and the subject came up. I said we were planning on driving south that morning, hopefully getting to an area of totality before the roads get too congested. He said we were welcome to join him at his cabin, and mentioned other friends of his that would be there. I said if he was serious, send me directions on how to get there and what I should bring to share.

    So, if he’s serious, he’ll let us know how to get there, and we’ll probably go. If he was just talking or if he reconsiders and doesn’t want to, all he has to do is not send me directions.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Very nice of him. Maybe a little closer to the event, you could casually remind him, like “Hey Wakeen, is your offer to stay at the cabin still open? We’re about to make a choice on options.”

      I’m lucky; my brother lives in a town that’s in the path of totality. I’ll probably drive over there on Saturday morning and crash with my mum, who is nearby. Any employer who wants me working before then is going to probably have to give me that Monday and maybe part of Tuesday off, depending on what people have planned (I’ll take it unpaid). I will mention it if I get an offer.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        I’m old enough that I saw the total eclipse that hit the pacific northwest in 1979. It was so incredible that yes, I would take the time off unpaid if necessary. I wish for you clear skies. And don’t forget to look down, to see the shadow bands: waves of shadows blowing across the landscape are just as incredible as the eclipse. (I don’t know if they happen during every eclipse.)

  35. AliceBD*

    It’s been two weeks since my last in-person interview. I have managed to move on mentally and am applying for other jobs, and will not be disappointed not to get this one. But I wish they would go ahead and tell me I didn’t get it! I have a trip I’d like to sign up for in August, and I can’t go if I get this job because job is in a new city so I would have to move and can’t go on the trip and move. I know you’re supposed to just make plans like you didn’t get the job but for logistical and monetary reasons I don’t feel comfortable committing to the trip until I hear a firm no. So email me a rejection already!

    1. Betsy*

      I may be wrong, but I think it is reasonable to follow up once two weeks after an in-person interview.

    2. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

      In JobSeach Land–two weeks is not that long. I remember when I interviewed for my current job, I had the first interview in February and then did not hear anything from it until 1 month later when the asked me to come in for the 2nd interview and then didn’t hear anything from that until another month later when they told me I got the job. My point is, it’s now almost July. When (not if–hee hee) they call you for another interview it could be sometime in July. And by the time they make their decision (to Hire YOU) it could be August. At which time you tell them that you can start AFTER your trip.

  36. Coffee*

    How do you stay motivated at a job that you’re trying to leave? My workplace has made it clear that I will not progress in the company because I am a woman, so I am looking for a new job. I’m finding it really hard to stay motivated and get my work done while I’m here though. Any tips or advice would be appreciated!

    1. Manders*

      Weirdly, I’ve found that having an escape plan can make me more productive for short stretches. I tell myself that I’m going to kick butt so they’ll regret losing me.

      1. Manders*

        Actually, after reading your clarification below, I don’t think you owe these jerks your A game.

    2. Pup Seal*

      My goodness, did they actually say you won’t get promoted because you’re a woman?!?! I don’t think that’s legal.

      1. Coffee*

        Not exactly. They said it’s emasculating when I correct men, and that if I want my ideas to succeed, I need to give them to male colleagues and have them present the ideas.

        9. Sylvia*

          Hahahaa what.

          Get out of there as fast as you can.

          I’m pretty sure their suggestion is more emasculating than your corrections could be, by the way. It’s so strange.

        11. Mainly lurking*

          If they’re prepared to give you this kind of “advice” verbally, there’s a chance they may be stupid enough to put it in an email if you ask them to confirm it … Written evidence!

        12. Observer*

          Please document this, and then go to the EEOC (and keep looking.)

          What they are saying is terrible management, which is legal, but it’s discrimination, which is not.

    3. overeducated*

      I think about what concrete stuff I can get done quickly that will make my resume more attractive to potential employers. How can you use what you’re doing now to launch yourself out? (Sorry btw, that sounds awful.)

    4. AnonyMeow*

      I tell myself that I try to do good work for my own growth and reputation, and the employer just happens to benefit from it. It doesn’t always work, but it helps. Good luck with the job search!

    5. Natalie*

      This might be the unpopular opinion, but how about not staying super motivated? Particularly given your other post, if they already have a poor opinion of you, performing a little under par won’t do much to change that. And they don’t really *deserve* your motivation.

      1. Natalie*

        I should clarify, I’m assuming they have a poor opinion of you because they are sexist tools, not for anything you’ve done to deserve it.

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        Uh, this was my answer too lol. Given what they said to you I’m not sure I would be struggling to stay motivated for these jerks…I think I’d be doing enough to continue collecting my paycheck while I hunt for another job.

    6. Electric Hedgehog*

      Gather evidence for an EEOC complaint and go through the proper in-company channels for reporting gender discrimination. This is textbook. This is a type of ‘good’ revenge that can be incredibly motivating.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Hang that laundry out for all to see. It’s their shame to bear.

        I am sorry this happened to you. You deserve better.

        1. neverjaunty*

          If you are in the US, there is a good chance the noncompete is worthless anyway.

          Get there to a lawyer!

    7. Effie*

      I’d say just do what you can to get by, no need to kill yourself, bend over backwards, or go out of your way. Tell your conscience to take a break if it starts bothering you. Put your energy into getting out and just look at this as a temporary situation to keep your energy from getting drained by your job. You definitely don’t owe them anything.

    8. Southern Ladybug*

      I’ve been struggling with this myself. I found reaching out to some other successful women and getting involved with a local group that advocates on women’s issues has helped. I have to deal with it at work in the meantime while I look for a new position. But it helps me feel like I’m fighting back more than I’ve been able to at the office. I’m playing the long game.

      And “wine and whine” happy hours with my good friends. That helps, too.

    9. beanie beans*

      1 – UGH and ditto what other people said about sexism in the workplace.

      2 – Related to how to stay motivated while you search – I’m in this same boat and have gotten the good advice to try to take on projects that will help develop your skills and experience for your next job. I made a list of things I wanted to learn or projects that I want to take on that will make me more marketable and have even gotten some training in areas that I thought would be a stretch to request. Working towards my PMP which I thought would be a clear “LOOKING FOR A NEW JOB” headline but they are paying for it! It’s really the only thing motivating me right now.

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        ^ This.

        OldJob made the layoff announcement in April, and I wasn’t scheduled to leave until the end of October. For the six-month interim (which turned out to be 5 months because my department was very efficient at wrapping up our loose ends), I actually started performing very highly at work, because my entire focus turned into “how can I make sure I leave with a rave review from my manager?” I volunteered for everything (including a last-minute international business trip) I could get my hands on, took over for coworkers who were laid off earlier, and worked harder in that six months than I had for probably the year and a half previous. Not for the sake of OldJob, which was kicking me to the curb, but for the sake of my resume.

        If you think about your remaining work until you ollie outtie as being work for you, to burnish your skills and resume, it can make a huge difference. Every task you look at, consider “how do I list this as an accomplishment on my resume?” “How do I talk about this in a job interview?” The business trip earned me major cred because I could talk about enthusiastically volunteering to train the people taking over my job, which most people tend to look at as a heinous punishment.

        You work for you, OP, and you cannot possibly get out of that hellhole too soon.

    10. Ann O.*

      I wish we lived in a chick flick world where you could sabotage these a-holes and not have it reflect on you. They do not deserve your motivation.

  37. Jbelly*

    In what non-obvious ways can I know if a male colleague is sexist or if something else is going on?

    2. JokersandRogues*

      I would ask why you want to know; is there someone specific you’e seen him treating differently (including yourself if applicable) and want to know why? A colleague, a subordinate?

      Generally, look for patterns of behavior; does he behave differently with male colleagues than with female colleagues? This can include tone of voice. I once worked in a department head where the VP in charge was bitter and hated women. Everyone knew it, and it was obvious; women always got the worse assignments or the ones that took no brain power at all( I counted lanyards from one box to another for 6 hours once — as a Data Analyst.) He had to cut payroll so all the female contractors were asked to take a pay cut. Only the female.
      This is completely observational and doesn’t have to be obvious.

    4. LizB*

      I’m not sure there’s a way to know for sure, but regardless of his motivations, you can address whatever behavior is making you ask the question. If he is sexist, you’ll still a better outcome by trying to get his behavior to stop than by trying to convince him to stop being sexist (have the “what you did” conversation, not the “what you are” conversation). This post is a great idea to get ideas for scripts to use, if you describe what’s going on!

    5. Jbelly*

      We’ve been working together about a year. I came in with a higher title than his and work on very complicated, poorly defined tasks, including taking over a duty that was previously his. His work tends to be more along the lines of fixing things that are clearly defined and setting up meetings. I’m a decade younger than he is. When I came on, he repeatedly tried to treat me as an assistant and would send communications out about my projects. Our boss told him repeatedly to stop. He petitioned for, and received, the same title i have, based on the fact that he used to be responsible for the duty I took over (and overhauled). Now he is at it again. He complains repeatedly if he is excluded from meetings that I get invited to and he doesn’t. He constantly needs to be in the know about everything. He appears to work fine with women older than he is. He doesn’t complain about his wife but he talks about her in ways that come across as either childish or demeaning (example: “I’m the life of my household, like my daughter. My wife and son are the quiet, sullen type.”). If our boss, who likes to give everyone a hard time, says something to me, his eyes light up like he is high. I took over some basic duties while a more junior colleague was out sick, and judging how glassy and happy his eyes looked, I think he thought I had been demoted. 30 minutes later, though, the head of the organization was singing my praises and this colleague was staring at the floor the entire time.

      I’ve experienced obvious sexism and I want to tread carefully because I don’t think accusations like this should be done in a cavalier manner. But I can’t shake the idea that he wouldn’t be treating a man in this way, that greater deference would be given to a man by default.

      1. Carla*

        I agree with you that sexism probably plays a part in this. But I think you’ll have better luck addressing it without that piece of the puzzle, if only because bringing sexism up only seems to have a positive effect when it’s blatant or outrageous. I think the fact that you’re much younger than him, took over his responsibilities, and initially had a higher title are all playing a big part in his behavior, and those would probably be issues (but possibly less so) if you were a man.

      2. Pup Seal*

        Yikes, he’s definitely a jerk! It seems to me what’s playing a part of this is down to one of these things (though I think it’s a combination of all of them):

        1. He’s a jerk to you because you came in and overhauled some of his work. That hurt his fragile ego and treats you poorly because of it. It doesn’t matter who it was, a female, male, a puppy. He felt insulted by the overhaul.

        2. He has a problem with your age. There are some people who envy those who are younger (both male and female) than them and have achieved a lot of success. You mentioned you were a decade younger than him. It could be that he thinks people of your age should be a particular level of success and thinks it’s insulting that someone younger than him is higher ranking than him. I had a male friend who had a manager-like position, but people didn’t take him seriously because of how young he was. It was sad because before he quit he saved his company half a million dollars.

        3. Young women sexism. I’ve noticed there are some people who treat older women equally but not younger women. I’m a young woman in mid twenties, work as a marketing coordinator, and the youngest at my job. However, coworkers sometimes treat me like a secretary, asking me to send faxes, make calls, make copies, etc. on their behalf even though it’s not my job. It’s possible this jerk feels you don’t deserve your position because you’re younger and you’re a woman. It’s a fair question to wonder if this guy would’ve treated you differently if you were a male.

          1. Yorick*

            It’s a combination. Young men get treated like junior colleagues with potential, but young women are treated like secretaries or personal assistants.

      3. Observer*

        Given how he talks about his son, and daughter, I think you’ve hit on the wrong explanation. I think there are two things going on. One – you took over some of his work and are better at it than he was. That’s not something he will ever forgive you for. And, you are younger than him, which I’m betting would be an issue for in any case, but especially given the first factor.

  38. katamia*

    I got in to the grad school I applied to in the UK for this coming fall. Just sent in my acceptance of their offer earlier today. What sort of wardrobe do I need? I know here in the US many programs that aren’t MBA programs (which this is not–it’s a library program) don’t have much of a dress code, but is that also true in the UK? Also would welcome any other tips on how to be grad school ready (either in general or UK-specific).

    1. Emmie*

      Congrats! I have no idea about the wardrobe. If you are uncertain, I’d wait until I got there to make more purchases. To get ready for grad school (and it sounds like perhaps a move), I’d:
      – Get rid of things you don’t need. I find it best when I do 2-3 rounds of this.
      – Spend time with people you love.
      – Do your best to pay down bills. I found it nice to eliminate financial worries.
      – If you’re moving, find a new place as early as possible.
      – Do fun stuff!
      – Maybe thumb through a couple of program relevant articles (Wall Street Journal for business) . . . something that will help you know some of the key events happening. A lot of programs recommend that you read books. I found that useless.
      Good luck!

      1. katamia*

        Thanks!

        I really want to get started early on the wardrobe because I have a hard time finding clothes (kind of between petite and regular for height, plus I’m different sizes in different parts of my body and my weight fluctuates a LOT so I’m not really a consistent size), and the idea of having to clothes shop (something I loathe at the best of times and have a hard time making myself do) while I’m trying to figure out the best grocery store/way to get to class (not to mention not knowing which stores are more likely to fit me, assuming UK stores are like US stores where women’s sizes are all slightly different at each store) and do any required paperwork just sounds like too much.

        1. Ramona Flowers*

          They do tend to differ between stores, it’s true. Dress code will depend a bit on what you’re studying and where but in most places pretty much anything goes so just be yourself.

          Congrats on the acceptance!

    2. Discordia Angel Jones*

      Grad schools here in the UK don’t tend to have dress codes!

      I’ve been to two, and my husband one, and we wore typical undergrad student clothes. It wasn’t an issue.

      Perhaps a couple of the more “fancy” ones might have a dress code, but I honestly doubt it (tho if you tell me the name of the school I can probably confirm).

      Congratulations!

      1. Cambridge Comma*

        For Oxbridge this would be true during the day, but you’d need formal eveningwear if you live in college and want to eat in formal hall.

    3. Hermione*

      Is it a one-year or 2+ year program? I would reach out to the department you’ll be studying in and ask if you can have the contact information of one or two grad students from last year’s cohort to get a feel of the program, classes, advisors, and their recommendations on housing/cafes/study spots, etc. We often had accepted Ph.D. students come do a visit either while mulling over or just after accepting our offers, but for international students, talking to older cohorts was totally typical; often the cohorts mingled at events, attended talks together, occasionally roomed, often drank, and sometimes even worked together. Good luck, and don’t stress too much about it!

    4. Cb*

      Late to this but I can help. If you’re not in a business programme, anything goes.

      I worked in a corporate adjacent job in the US so my first year in UK grad school, I was quite formal (just wore what I had). I lost some weight my first year so replaced my wardrobe with sleeved dresses, tights, and nice boots / booties. I hate wearing trousers so I probably seem a bit more formal than others do – most are wearing jeans with nicer tops. I’m now 8 months pregnant – so wearing whatever still fits (on Friday, I knew I’d be alone in the office and going to yoga at midday) so I wore leggings and a tunic jumper.

  39. overeducated*

    I’ve been in a mood of despair most of the week from the crashing realization that the reason I can’t seem to make progress in half of my core job description is that 1) I am in an incredibly hierarchical office where upper management wants to be actively involved and make the final decision on every step and 2) upper management doesn’t see the type of work I was hired to do as a priority. Unfortunately the combination means I can’t get the buy in I need to be effective, or do really any of the exciting projects I was told would be the purpose of my job. Other people who are higher up the chain get to do some (because hey even though it’s my actual job title and I was supposedly brought on bc they don’t have time, if they want to be at every meeting, cc’d on every email, and make every decision, it’s easier to just do it themselves), and some just never get off the ground. If I had known this I definitely wouldn’t have taken this job but i don’t think there is a magic questiin I could have asked to reveal this.

    Anyway I am torn between just applying for everything I can because this clearly isn’t going to change, and just warming my desk while holding out for a more perfect fit or my spouse to figure out his job situation.

    Argh. Anyone else feel like you’ve made an objectively wrong career decision? How long did it hold you back?

    1. Anonny*

      This sounds just like my old job. I had bosses who gave good lip service to new ideas but in practice didn’t actually like them, so it took me a couple of years to realize that things weren’t going to change. Once I realized the extent of my powerlessness and started looking, I found that it was more tolerable to just keep my head down and get done what I could, so I was able to wait a bit longer for the opportunity that was right for me. It was really tempting to just jump ship as soon as possible, though.

      1. Overeducated*

        Thanks for the response, I’m glad you moved on to something better. It is really tempting to just jump ship, and I think applying for stuff and fantasizing about different possibilities is a major coping strategy for me, but I’m also making myself a little bit crazy.

  40. DevAssist*

    Wish me luck! After having to turn down an amazing offer earlier this week, I just found and applied for a very appealing job opening on Wednesday.

    The job seems to fit my professional interests well and I believe I have experience and skills that would make me an excellent candidate. Hopefully I hear back!

  41. The Other Dawn*

    I’m posting this here, since the question is about a work-related trip.

    I have a business trip coming up in October. My brother is terminally ill and it’s very likely he will pass away somewhere around this time (I’ve posted about it in the weekend thread). I haven’t bought my plane ticket yet, mainly because it’s an expensive flight (almost $600.00 for non-refundable, most basic ticket). I’ve been looking at refundable tickets, but they’re about twice the price. Then I realized that I might be able to buy travel insurance for much less. I haven’t done much shopping around yet, but does anyone know if this would cover having to cancel the trip altogether because of my brother’s death? From what I’ve read so far, it seems it would cover the cost of changing my ticket if I had to come back early, but I can’t tell if it would cover for full cancellation. Also, anyone have any good or bad experiences with travel insurance they want to share?

    (And just to be clear, my boss hasn’t told me that I need to save the company money by getting travel insurance rather than a refundable ticket; I’m checking this out on my own, even thought I’m not paying for it, because I think the price of a refundable ticket is ridiculous (more so if I decide to bring my husband, since we’ll have to pay for that ticket out-of-pocket).)

    1. Betsy*

      Check the fine print of the travel insurance. I know that at least some travel insurance does cover cancellation if a family member dies, even if that person was not included in the trip, but I don’t know what their definition of family member is (sometimes this is defined only as spouse, parent, or child). It should explicitly say everything that is covered.
      Have you shared your concern with your boss? I’d hope a reasonable boss would be sympathetic and willing to work this out with you.

    2. Emmie*

      I recommend that you talk to your manager about how she’d like you to handle this. It sounds like you’re hesitating, but it’s okay to discuss this. I am so very sorry about your brother.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      I’ve already mentioned it to him and he didn’t seem to care either way. In his eyes, it’s not a large amount; in my eyes, it is. In other words, it’s whatever I want to do and think is best. To be honest though, just bringing it up was really hard because it’s so hard to voice the words to someone other than friends or family, “My brother has only a few months left due to a terminal illness.” I knew a month ago, but just couldn’t bring myself to tell him.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        You have been able to type things here, so that is good. Can you email your boss and say what you need to tell him and let him know that typing is easier than talking?

      2. Hillary*

        I’m sorry to hear about your brother.

        If your manager doesn’t care, I’d take him at his word and do what’s easiest for you. It took me a long time to accept the difference between company money and personal money. For most of the places I’ve worked, where the company starts caring is somewhere between two and five places left of where I care personally (i.e. $10,000 for the company versus $100 for me).

        1. The Other Dawn*

          Thanks.

          Yes, that’s so true. I came from a company that never made money the whole time they were in existence, so, even after three years at a company that MAKES MONEY, my mind is still stuck back in the don’t-spend-a-penny mode.

    4. CAA*

      In order for travel insurance to cover this, you would need to get a policy that waives the preexisting conditions exclusion for family members not traveling with you. Generally if you purchase a policy within a few days of purchasing the airfare, they will waive the preexisting conditions exclusion for the travelers, but not all of them include non-travelers in that waiver. Also, there are restrictions such as having to include all trip costs in the insured amount, not just the airfare. I would suggest calling the people at tripinsurancestore dot com and speaking to someone about this. They sell a variety of policies and are really knowledgeable about what’s covered and what isn’t.

      I’m sorry about your brother.

    5. kavm*

      I’m so sorry about your brother. What a truly horrible thing to go through.

      I can’t tell from what you’ve said, but if you’ve only been checking ticket prices online I would suggest calling and actually talking to someone. A lot of the time they can get you better prices, and you can ask them questions about the travel insurance that you may not be able to find online. The caveat with this is to always get the name of the person you spoke to and ask if they can send you a document with the details you discussed so that you have something in writing.

      Is there anyway to be excused from the business trip altogether due to your circumstances? Will your company be covering the cost of the flight? Because if your boss isn’t worried about the expense and having to pay for it even if it’s cancelled then you shouldn’t either. Like Alison is always saying, it’s a cost of doing business. (If they make you cover the cost of your flight and the cancellation that’s a really shitty policy)

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Yes they will cover it either way. It’s a trip I really want to go on, so I planned on booking it and then playing it by ear. I feel like his time is shorter than October so it probably won’t be an issue, unfortunately.

    6. GermanGirl*

      One extra point about the travel insurance: They might not cover cancelling a business trip that was paid for by your company.

    7. Working Rachel*

      Book the refundable ticket. Your boss is fine with it, and you don’t need to spend the brain space right now figuring out the intricacies of travel insurance. This is a case where I think it is both fine and even necessary to make things easier on yourself.

      I am so sorry about your brother! Mine fills such a special place in my life, and I know I would be devastated in your situation.

  42. Anon16*

    Any advice for breaking into marketing/advertising agencies? I’m fairly young, and recently graduated. I work as a project manager at my current job and was thinking of moving into a junior project manager role at an agency.

    I’m really struggling with confidence, though. I got my first job through an internship connection and stroke of luck. I’m really skeptical of blindly applying to companies. I feel as if no one will hire me and that I have to claw my way in to get considered. I know through LinkedIn most jobs are getting something like 100 applicants per position. I’ve heard so many stories of people applying again and again and not hearing anything from employers and I’m so scared of that situation.

    My current job is equally as demoralizing. There’s no room for growth and basically no room for increased pay. My role is essentially permanently entry-level organization. I have a lot of ambition and would like to move to an organization where I can grow as an employee. I’m struggling a lot with confidence. Any advice? It’s such a demoralizing process and has taken a hit to my self-esteem, which is probably the worst position to be in when job hunting.

    1. Simone R*

      Ooof, that sounds rough. Hang in there! Applying to companies can definitely be a slog and somewhat demoralizing, but that’s the way most people get a job! I can tell you from reading resumes that at least 50% of those 100 resumes would not be taken into consideration, so as long as you polish up your resume and cover letter based on the site here, you have a better chance. Why not just start sending out resumes slowly and see what happens?

    2. Iris Eyes*

      There are some good articles on this site about not taking the job searching process personally. Try not to get beyond the “Wow, that would be a cool job” mental stage. Also if this process takes some time that’s not necessarily a bad thing, if you have only been at this job for a bit having a bit more tenure looks good to future employers.

      It is always good to have relevant experience. So maybe you can pick up some freelance marketing/advertising work, maybe for a charity you volunteer at, or a friend who is starting up a small business. You know you but maybe approaching the job search as a marketing exercise would be beneficial and would provide you a degree of distance.

    3. Director of Things*

      On the negative side, yes, there are tons of applicants for entry-level positions. On the plus side for you, entry-level marketing positions tend to have quite a rate of turnover, either from resigning or promotion. Good for openings and good for your career trajectory. As tough as it is, write a cover letter saying why you want each specific position. It doesn’t have to be elaborate, just explaining your interest in that specific job.
      I would also recommend looking at small-to-mid size companies that aren’t marketing/ad agencies, but have a marketing department. You may have an easier chance getting in the door.

    4. MissGirl*

      Any type of project manager role may be too high for this field at your current experience. It may be better to look at more assistant type positions. Not admin assistant but assistant copy editor or junior designer. Also look at smaller companies with a marketing department not an agency, which would be less competitive to get into.

      You mention your fear of mass rejection. I hate to say it, but you’ve got to get over that. If you choose to go into a competitive field, you’ll have to embrace applying a lot and getting rejected a lot.

      Also look at the positions you want and their requirements. What holes are in your resume and can you get training or practice to fill them. I used to be a graphic designer in a marketing department so I understand the competitiveness.

  43. Bianca Margarita*

    I’ve been a reader for years and have never commented, but I wanted to pop in and say that I got a promotion last week! It represents a significant jump in pay and responsibility, only a year and a half into my time with this org. I’m confident it’s due at least in part to my obsessive reading of AAM, which has taught me so much about how to communicate effectively and make myself a valuable resource at work. Even though my imposter syndrome is working overtime in prep for the new role, I can still recognize how far I’ve come in the last couple of years, so, thanks to this amazing community for everything you do.

  44. Sublux*

    I’ve had 2 really great interviews with HR and team members and next week is a final interview with the CEO! In the first interview, HR said that office hours are 8-5 with an hour lunch, but didn’t say “we need your role in the office during those hours”.

    Ideally I’d like to take a shorter lunch (the job is in an industrial park and there’s not really anywhere to go) and maybe even do an hour of work from home each night after my young son goes to bed.

    From the job tasks and similar jobs I’ve worked in the past, the role would totally allow this, but it’s a smaller company and I don’t think anyone is currently working from home, etc.

    Should I ask the CEO if there’s a possibility of working more flexible hours, or wait until I (hopefully!) get an offer?

    2. AliceBD*

      Wait until you get an offer. You don’t want to (unconsciously) bias them against you by a request to rock the boat.

  45. My name is Inigo Montoya*

    I worked for a certifying non-profit body. I’ve had a few parents call in within the last week(!) to follow up their child’s certification application or ask general questions about the process on behalf of their darling child. If this were a job interview / candidacy, I feel like I could appropriately push back and refuse to speak to anyone but the applicant, but it’s tough to refuse to answer general questions since we’re open to having members of the public call us for information about the certification. When did this become acceptable to reach out on behalf of you kids’s certification? Especially when your kid is in their mid-30’s at least? And how can I (politely) explain that that you DON’T DO THIS?

    1. Murphy*

      I don’t think there’s anything you can do if they’re asking general questions except say, “Your son Fergus is welcome to call me directly if they have questions.” But they may or may not discourage them at all if they’re already on the phone with you. If they’re asking about “my son Fergus Smith’s application” specifically, I think you can refuse to engage on the topic.

      1. Murphy*

        Or you could maybe blanket state that, “We prefer to speak to the applicant directly.”

    2. katamia*

      Wooooooooooooooooooow. I was raised by a pretty extreme helicopter parent, but even my parent would never actually call someone work-related on my behalf, just try to nag me to death to get me to do it. :P

      If they specifically say “My child recently applied for this certification,” I’d treat it as though they’re asking a specific question related to the application even if all they’re asking about is the deadline for X and just say that you can only speak to the applicant about their application.

    3. paul*

      what on god’s great green earth? People are calling about professional certifications for their adult children? Are we talking stuff like CNP certs or something? That’s just blowing my mind.

      1. My name is Inigo Montoya*

        This is a new phenomenon for me. I never had this challenge before – maybe once in a blue moon I’d get an over zealous parent who worked their way through to my desk. But there’s something in the water this week, because the parents are coming out in full force. And they’re pushy.

        1. Liane*

          Maybe the places that give horrible advice to job seekers have found a new market in helicopter parents?

          But, ugh, I would not want to deal with them.

    4. Lefty*

      We have a trend of this each year at about this time of the year, so I can commiserate. Sometimes calls from the parents of adult children are more difficult than the calls from the parents of still-under-18 children. Is there a website you can recommend that has most of the answers to their questions?

      My go-to response has become, “Our typical process takes 6-8 for completion. As I am sure you can understand, we do not provide information on any applicant to anyone else due to privacy concerns. They can call me at this number for that information.” Then I go silent (which took practice for me, I needed to learn to let it be awkward!)… if they say OK/fine/etc., I wish them a good afternoon and hang up. If they protest, I say “We cannot provide any information to someone who is not the applicant.” And repeat if needed… if I get to a third, “We cannot provide that to anyone but the applicant- goodbye!” and I hang up. This might require buy-in from a manager…

      1. My name is Inigo Montoya*

        I didn’t think about the recent college grads. Maybe graduations / careers are top of parents’s minds and that’s why they’re calling now more than other times. Still not an excuse for bad behavior, but perhaps a explanation for the timing…

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I am not supposed to give out information to parents of adult children, either. Sometimes it is hard to draw that line with a caller. In those cases I may answer one or two general questions, then I encourage the parent that the adult child can call me but it is an ethics issue for me to be talking about it with another adult. Then I let them know that I just gave them more info than I have to other parents and I really cannot do much more than that.

      Most times when the caller knows they have gotten an extra tidbit of info out of me that is enough. They calm down, apologize and tell me that the adult child will call me. I let them know that is fine.

      I think one thing that is helpful is I chose not to escalate even when they are clearly escalating. I keep the same calm voice through out the call. If I can find things I agree with, I tell the parent that I agree with them. It seems to help to find a few common areas.

    6. consultant*

      If it’s a general question then I don’t see why you shouldn’t answer it.

      I’ve asked my parents to help my like that several times when for example the line was busy a few times. At my current position I can’t go out several times a day during the working hours to check whether the company/ doctor is available now. Not sure what’s so strange about that.

  46. KatieKate*

    I’m trying to help a good friend find a job, and I just reached out to an old coworker on LinkedIn about networking with them and haven’t heard back. They are someone I have networked with before (in fact, they helped me find me first job) and I consider us to be friendly. It’s been a week- should I read anything into not hearing back? How often do people check their LinkedIn?

    1. NeverNicky*

      Never. If I hadn’t had to have a profile for a volunteer commitment (!) I wouldn’t be on there. I’m not hard to find using a well known search engine (if you know my real name).

    3. k*

      I sign in maybe twice a year, just to update little things. I’m not a fan of linkedin and only keep it because I know some prospective employers would thinks it’s odd if someone doesn’t have one. I might be a-typical though.

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      I check mine once every week or two weeks. I’d keep waiting for now. Do you have an email address or connection on Facebook with this coworker? That may result in faster contact.

    6. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I only ever check my LinkedIn page when I’m seriously job searching, so I would definitely miss a message on there and have no clue. I would try to email your old coworker if you can.

  47. Gail Davidson-Durst*

    I need ideas on creating an island of sanity in a sea of bad management.

    The situation is that from my great-grandboss up (and out), management seems really checked out, they just want fewer and fewer people to do more work (by working crazy hours if necessary), they’re 100% driven by a stringent savings goal set by the board for the next 3 years, and they actually don’t seem to care about retaining good talent.

    The thing is, everything in my grandboss’s team is pretty good. She protects us from demands for overwork, values our work-life balance, wants us to grow and realize new potential. But her scope of control is limited. She can’t make promotions appear when her manager won’t approve the money, she can’t fix the broken corporate processes that we have to interact with, and she has to cope with more and more people leaving and how to cover that workload.

    For now, the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, and I’d like to help my team be a happy place where we work together, we have trust, we produce great output, and we do what we can to let people grow and advance.

    However, the atmosphere has been pretty negative, as people are rightly cynical about upper management, and worried about having to work harder and harder (even if grandboss does her best to protect us from that).

    What can I do as an individual contributor to help create a bubble of protection for the team? I am a trusted adviser for grandboss, so I can influence quite a bit, even though I’m not a manager.

    Thanks!
    (hopefully this will post properly – sorry Alison for the mispost earlier!)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like upper management is interested in destroying the company. oh my.
      One thing I have done is made little tweaks in daily processes that fly under the radar. Fix some small stuff to make the day-to-day easier in some way.

      While the natural train of thought seems to be to make a list of all the stuff that cannot be done, it can be helpful to retrain the brain to think in terms of what CAN be done given the givens.

      Since you have the big boss’ ear watch for bits of news that would be useful to her.
      For example, I saw a competitor suddenly get active in our area. I let my boss know that I saw X driving around doing Y. This was useful to her.
      I also targeted some of the more labor intensive tasks and found ways to streamline them so it took less people and those who did the task spent less energy on the task.

      If this big boss reciprocates and tells you what is going on, then ask her how you can help her leverage her situation. This would be easier than what I did, I had to guess what would be of value to tell the boss.

  48. Christy*

    How much do y’all tip movers? This is a business transaction, which is why I’m asking here. There are five movers, and it’s a 3-4 hour move of 1 mile. Percentages or dollar amounts, ideally both, since I don’t want to put the actual cost.

    Do y’all provide the movers with beverages? Food?

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Definitely chilled water at both the move out and move in location. I typically buy a 24 pack of water and pop it in an ice chest that’s on the kitchen counter or the garage (whatever is out of the sun and logically out of the way) and tell the movers what’s in there and please hydrate as much as needed. Please no dehydrating.

      For tipping, I do anything between 30-50 per mover (a rough estimate of at least 20%, based on my market’s value). It sort of depends on work ethic for me.

    2. Betsy*

      I think in the past, I’ve given each mover $15-20. All of my moves have been about 3 hours (except with just two or three movers) and nothing terribly out of the ordinary. I did not provide food or beverages.

    4. Natalie*

      It’s definitely going to vary by the size of the job & how easy of a customer you are. So, you know, have everything packed and labeled clearly and so forth. A couple of years ago when I moved, for my one bedroom apartment the area going rate was $20/mover.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I have always provided water and Gatorade or Powerade, especially in summer (most of my moves have been in summer). I have tipped each mover about $75, but when it was only two guys hauling ALL of our stuff from the truck to our house, I tipped $100 each. My last move was a pickup in NYC and a long-distance drop-off, so I might tip less depending on the size of your city. I gave all tips– in cash– to the move foreman and told him it was for the team.

      1. Leslie Knope*

        This is such a good username!! I’m in season 3. How did I not watch it sooner?!

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Thanks! I love that this comment comes from someone whose username is that of MY favorite TV heroine! I even keep a Leslie Knope candle on my desk at work. :)

    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      10-20% of the cost of the move, depending on staircases and heavy items. I use the same tipping strategy for both residential and commercial movers.

    7. periwinkle*

      We had an in-town move and tipped $80 to each of the movers (2) on top of whatever they were getting paid by the company. It was going to be $50 each but they were so awesome that we dug around for more cash! We also offered bottled water.

    8. Dealtwiththis*

      I provide water and gatorade in a cooler and lots of delivered pizzas for lunch. I then tip $50-$100 per person.

  49. JoAnna*

    After a month+ interview process – three interviews plus an editing assessment – I received a job offer yesterday.

    For $7,000 LESS than my minimum salary range.

    The offer was extended by a VP, and I told him that I had given my salary range as $Xk – $Yk during the initial phone interview, and the recruiter (an employee of the company, not an outside recruiter) had said, “That’s fine.” His response: “Well, I don’t know why she would have told you that.”

    I’m so ticked. I don’t know if the recruiter lord or if they are engaging in some sort of BS negotiating tactic to lowball me in hopes that I don’t push back, but either way I am not impressed. I may be unemployed but I am not that desperate, nor am I a doormat.

    I sent him an email after receiving the official offer letter saying that I’d been told that my salary range was fine during the initial phone interview, and that I would have declined to continue the interview process had I been told it wasn’t. I reiterated my enthusiasm for the job but said I needed to speak with whoever was in charge with determining compensation so we could get in the same page on salary before I accepted an offer. (He had said on the phone that he wasn’t authorized to negotiate salary.)

    Argh.

    1. Mazzy*

      Wow I’d be ticked. Unless it’s like a high salary like 320 vs 327k that is a big difference

      1. curmudgeon*

        in my interviwew I was told $42500, contract was only $40k. when I asked about the difference i was told the interviewer told me the salary plus other costs that are associated with my salary so it was really only $40k.
        it was at that point I should have walked away…

      2. JoAnna*

        My absolute minimum was $45,000. They offered me $38,000. To say I was insulted is an understatement. I have 13 years of experience in my field, and at my last position I was making $47,000 per year.

        1. Chaordic One*

          You’ve handled the situation with tact and grace. It almost sounds like you used an Allison-provided script. (When you reading this website, some of her ideas and tactics rub off on you.) Even if they up their offer to your range, you may still want to decline it.

  50. Betsy*

    On a scale of 1-10, how bad is it to write a cover letter that is longer than one page? I wrote what I feel is a really great cover letter, but it is a page and a half. When I try to take out parts of the letter, it feels less convincing and genuine. I don’t think it is boring (I did not summarize my resume at all). Will it get thrown out before reading because it is too long?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      It won’t get thrown out, but it won’t get read closely — hiring managers will skim over it, and you can’t control where they’ll focus their attention.

    2. Stranger than fiction*

      Not sure about the rating, but as far as how to pare down, ask yourself if there’s anything you can leave out that would be better to expand upon during the interview. In other words, are you telling your whole story rather than just nuggets to get their interest?

      1. Betsy*

        My goal was to outline why I wanted to take a job that is in a field I previously left. So, I need to demonstrate:

        How I became interested in, found work in, and succeeded in X field in spite of my education being in Y field.

        Why I left X field for Y field.

        My successes in Y field that relate to X field.

        Why I want to return to X field.

        Why the combination of these experiences and successes make me a good fit for this job.

        That’s a lot to fit into one page, but if I leave any of these out, it won’t be clear why I’m applying for this job or would want this job.

        1. WS*

          If you’ve worked in X field before do you have to explain the education component in the cover letter at all? I also don’t think you need to go into a lot of detail about *why* things happened, as long as you cover what those experiences give you that can translate to the new job.

          I’m thinking something like, “I became interested in X field because [reasons] and at [job in X field] I [achievements/successes/etc.]. My recent experiences in [Y field] have [taught/allowed me to/given me experience in] [things related to X field]. I’m now eager to return to [X field] because [brief explanation] and I’m excited about this position because [reasons].”

        2. Optimistic Prime*

          I actually don’t think you need to include all of that. You don’t need to explain how you became interested in or found work in X field – just your success in X field, maybe one sentence about why you left X for Y, then your relevant successes and applicability in Y field and why you are interested in the specific job (not just X field) you’re applying for.

    3. Uncivil Engineer*

      Are there instructions in the job announcement that say the cover letter is to be no longer than 1 page? If so, it would be quite bad to submit something longer because you’re not following instructions. When I hire, I specifically say applicants are to submit cover letters no longer than 2 pages. Anyone who submits something longer is not considered for the job.

      1. Betsy*

        No, the only instructions say that you need to have your cover letter and resume in one Word document. No other guidelines.

    4. Mazzy*

      Depends on the formatting and what you’re saying but definitely break it up into bullet points and smaller paragraphs and get rid of subjective such as “i think” or “I feel”

    5. Language Lover*

      I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “kill your darlings” which is sometimes given to writers which essentially means getting rid of passages they may love for the sake of the overall work. I think that could apply to cover letters and resumes as well.

      It’s hard. It really is. But while no candidate would be tossed for having a cover letter that was more than one page, I’d probably side eye why they think they would need one. If I’m going through a lot of applications, it may not matter how wonderful that page and a half is. I just might not have the time to do more than skim. So I second previous suggestions of bullet points…etc.

      Perhaps this is industry specific and people in your industry are more forgiving of long cover letters. Or your cover letter is extraordinary that even people who hate reading will want to read it. But like a resume, your goal should be making it as digestible as possible while covering why you want this job.

      Without reading your cover letter (and just going by what you wrote about the areas you cover), I don’t think I’d need to know why you originally went into X field even though your education was in Y field or why you went into Y field for a while after X. That’s history that is probably more interesting/important to you and would make for a great interview answer but may be extraneous on a cover letter. If I were hiring, what I’d want to know from you is why you’d like to return to X. (Convince me it’s not because you prefer Y but think getting a job in X field is easier.) And why you think you’d be successful in my open job.

      If you have people you trust to be honest with you, I’d have them read the cover letter. And you can ask them what they’d take out.

    6. Director of Things*

      Having just been through a period of hiring for several positions, just tell me why you want this job. Highlight a few transferable skills, previous work in the field, and why you want this job at this specific company. I know it’s difficult to edit and delete sections that seem really important to your story and why you’re right for the job. But the more focus you can direct to the key pieces this field or company would want, the better. Victoria Nonprofit made a great point – you can’t control if they skim or skip parts because it’s too long. If you can put yourself in the reader’s shoes that might help; if you read 20 cover letters in one sitting, what would you be drawn to and focus on?

  51. Alex*

    I feel like I don’t have much of a skills set. My current job doesn’t require any special training or experience. I know it would be beneficial to get more training in something that might potentially lead to a better job in the future. The problem is I don’t have much of an idea what I would like to pursue. I have taken a few classes at the community college level (I already have a liberal arts BA), but they didn’t inspire me. I have the opportunity to do more classes, but I’m not sure what area would be useful. Something tech related maybe? Does anyone have examples of trying something new or random and having it work out (unexpectedly)?

    1. k*

      It really depends what your field is. In my field it would be helpful to learn web design, PhotoShop or InDesign. Becoming a master of Excel can be a great job skill. It’s one of those programs that can be really powerful if you know what you’re doing, but is underutilized by most. Learning a new language is almost always helpful.

      One thing I would recommend is looking at job postings for the types of jobs you’d like someday, and see what types of things are commonly listed in the qualifications sections.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Lacking strong preferences for a career path, I’d suggest go with your natural abilities. What do you do well with? For example you could decide that you are very comfortable with numbers. OTH, you could decide that a creative arena is for you because you like it when something is new every day.

      You can start to figure your natural abilities by looking at the classes you took. I knew if I signed up for history, I would do well. But when I signed up for chemistry, I was almost fighting back tears. These are clues about our natural talents. You can also talk to friends and family. Or think back to comments they may have made, “Oh, you have always been good at reading maps.” More clues.

      If nothing jumps out at you as something you would like to do, then chose something where you think you stand a good chance of being successful.

  52. Lady Dedlock*

    I’ve been feeling stuck at my job for some time, and have been trying to psych myself up for a job search. My organization is relatively small, with basically no room for advancement from my current position. I’ve been here for 7 years, and it seems like it’s about time to move on.

    But! Now we’re adding a position to my team, and that person will report to me and to my boss—meaning that I would be a supervisor for the first time. That seems worth sticking around for, right? I’m guessing that having some supervisory experience (even in a limited capacity) would give me more options when I do initiate a job search.

    1. k*

      Supervisory experience is good on a resume, especially if the new position includes it as well. But, and this is a big but, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily worth it. Without knowing the ins and outs of your job I can’t say if you should leave or stay. If you still enjoy the work you do, like the people there, generally don’t dread going to work everyday and there aren’t any weird toxic workplace things going on, then you should probably stick it out another year or so for the experience. If any of those things aren’t true or start to change, then I would consider moving on sooner.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Being a supervisor enriched the job for me. I found it easier to stay with a job. I think it’s because it was an added layer.

      Job searches take time. There is nothing wrong with casually searching while you learn to supervise. It’s not an all or nothing thing. Looking around may help you decide if you want to launch a serious job search or if you would prefer just keeping yourself informed of what is out there.

  53. Stranger than fiction*

    Calling all techies, software peeps, etc.! Question:
    If you had a job candidate that has about 1.5 years’ experience successfully launching product in the mobile app realm (20 yrs experience all together) but has been away from it for 2.5 yrs working for a on-premise software solution company that he was hired to take into the cloud but hasn’t officially launched yet due to one internal roadblock after the next, lack of budget for the product, etc, would that cause you pause??
    Trying to figure out why not getting passed the phone screen and thought maybe the current job is holding him back.
    Any thoughts appreciated.

    1. CAA*

      I assume he’s applying for mobile app product manager/dev manager roles?

      I doubt that the current job is holding him back, but maybe the way he talks about it is. He needs to be able to talk about something he’s achieved there in a positive way and explain why he’s leaving in a way that makes it seem like he wants the new job, not that he’s just desperate to take anything to get out of the current job. Also, he has to be able to demonstrate that he’s aware of changes in mobile app development, test and launch practices during the time he’s been away from that field.

      It could also be a mismatch in salary expectations. Around here, mobile dev typically pays less than something like the on-premise solution would, so if I were interviewing him I’d want to make sure he was able and willing to take a pay cut if that were likely to happen.

      Or, it could be that they’re overwhelmed with applicants who have very current experience. Mobile app devs are pretty easy to find and hire right now.

      1. Stranger than fiction*

        Thanks! This helps. He’s being told his salary req is in the right range, so don’t think that’s it (and interesting comment, he’s actually underpaid at current job, the company actually brags about hiring under market rate and that’s part of the problem because they end up w a lot of inexperienced people). Good points on the way he’s explaining things, I’ll delve into that more with him.

      2. Stranger than fiction*

        And yes, it’s product management ( and project management since they don’t have one).

  54. Danae*

    Ran into this one this week, and I wonder when the right time is to address it, if I need to address it at all.

    I interviewed for a job that’s an “independent contractor” position that completely fails the IRS’s tests–they want this person in the office at set hours, using their equipment, working as they direct. They basically want a full-time employee that they don’t have to pay taxes on.

    If I move forward with the process, is this something I should address in the interview? I’m considering going at it from the angle of “since this is an independent contractor position, would you consider more flexibility in the hours and work location?” (And only if they balk, pointing out that the IRS has pretty clear rules on independent contractor classification.) Or would that be a complete faux pas?

    I’m not super set on this job, so if I get eliminated it’s not a huge deal.

    1. Natalie*

      I’d just skip it entirely. In my experience, at least, people that do this just want to evade taxes. They don’t actually want a real independent contractor, so they won’t flex on their schedule, etc.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Since you are not set on this job and they seem to be loosy-goosy with the rules, I’d say move on. You can get something better than this.

  55. Anon for this*

    Asking for a friend (truly!)
    My colleague is planning on leaving to go back to school. She wants to leave on good terms and because she’s not leaving for a competitor, she originally was thinking she’d give 5 weeks notice to help the team transition. But our company isn’t always the most reasonable, and has been known to walk people out the door the minute they give notice (usually when people go to competitors). She would be okay if that happened salary-wise, but not health insurance-wise, she needs to be covered until school starts. Our firm’s policy is that you get health insurance for the month in which you end employment, so if she waited until August to give notice, she would ensure health insurance coverage even if she were fired on the spot. But then she’d be giving 1 week notice, which seems like it’d result in leaving on bad terms. What do you think she should do?

    1. Here we go again*

      Does she need the health insurance in case of an emergency or does she have an ongoing condition that she needs to manage? If she only wants to keep the health insurance in case of an emergency, you can get about a 3 month grace period. Basically, you say you want COBRA the last day you can (I think it is 30-45 days from the time you lose it), then you have extra time to pay for it (I think another 30-45 days). If you don’t pay for it, it just falls off, but it gives you a cushion in case something catastrophic happens.

      2. Natalie*

        You have 60 days to elect COBRA coverage and then 45 days to make your first payment. If you end up electing for it, the coverage is retroactive to the day you lost employment.

    2. Zathras*

      I aged off of my mom’s health insurance during the summer before starting my grad school program. I contacted the school and explained the situation and they were able to start my student health insurance coverage early. I had to pay some pro-rated amount for the extra months. The school’s website probably has a page about student health insurance with some contact information, your colleague could reach out before giving notice and ask if this is a possibility.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I go back to she wants to leave on good terms.
      Is she sure that is possible to leave on good terms with people getting escorted out when they give notice?

      I think that is where she needs to start with this. It may not be possible to leave on good terms no matter what she does.

      Does school start the second week in August? I am wondering why the one week notice in August.
      Can she take a summer course and quit the job earlier? (Clearly I am not familiar with how insurance works in the situations.)
      Does her adviser at school have any recommendations from what she has seen other people do?

      But I go back to, if she is almost certain she will be escorted out when she gives notice, then that is her answer.

  56. Lilith*

    Have any other admin workers here moved out of admin, and how did you decide what to do? Did you gain any qualifications or do any courses before switching?

    I am a PA and Office Manager (as in, looking after the office and covering when the receptionist is off rather than managing people) in a small organisation, but think I have reached the limits of where I can get to with my lack of qualifications. I don’t have a degree and the idea of the debt is scaring me off starting one (especially as a mature student), but am stuck about what to do next.

    Would appreciate any stories from people who have done a switch – which will hopefully motivate me to get going on finding a new path!

    1. EA*

      I’m in the middle of trying to switch, so not sure how helpful I will be.

      I originally was paralegal after college, and decided I didn’t want to go to law school, so I was stuck with very few transferable skills. I went into admin, because it was the only job I could get, and I did admin duties as a paralegal. The first place I was an admin was toxic and insane. After that I decided to go work as an EA in a large organization. I also have tuition reimbursement for extra classes.

      I’ve been here two years and it has been a mixed bag. On the one had, I am currently applying internally for non-admin (I want to either supervise admins or do project management) jobs, and I think I have a good shot at them. I have a good network/reputation. On the other hand – I felt very misled by my current job. In the interview I tried and specifically screened for an EA job with growth where I could take on projects. They were so enthusiastic about this and said the last EA used the job as a stepping stone and it is a stepping stone. This ended up being an exaggeration (the last EA), and I have gotten some non-admin work but not what I expected. Also all additional work is a big discussion/production to try and get assigned to me. For better or worse, I feel misled. The more people I talk to, the more I see this as sort of common, some bosses in an interview don’t wants to admit the job is dead-end.

      So in summary – I would try and find an organization that is larger so you can transfer, and a job that allows you to gain some skills. You can also look for like “HR Admin Assistant” or “Marketing Admin Assistant” jobs if you know what field you are interested in. It has been a difficult and frustrating road for me. Tuition reimbursement can also help you get a degree gradually ( my org does 5k a year)

      1. EA*

        Oh and I thought of more, sorry this is such a long reply.

        To figure out what I wanted to do, I thought of my likes and dislikes in my current job. I liked helping others with their bosses, and being organized/detail oriented/having good follow through skills. So I came to managing admins or project management.

        I would also spend some time on why you don’t like being an admin, and if it is an admin thing or a organization thing. For me, I absolutely hate how I am always treated in admin jobs. Just today, a coworker was like, “well if you are an admin then you just need to bear the brunt of everything, and if you don’t like it, you should have made different choices” This wasn’t even me complaining, someone just asked why another girl left and I said she wasn’t treated well by her boss.

      2. Morning Glory*

        Something similar happened to me – in the hiring process there was a lot of discussion of opportunities for upward growth, and some of the higher level work I could take on. Once I started, I realized admins stay admins for decades here, and they keep you so busy with core admin work (non-exempt, no overtime budget) that you can’t volunteer for other projects. The higher level position we had explicitly talked about me moving into after a few years? Nowhere close to being realistic as the next level up.

        So my sympathies, Lilith, I also think it is really hard to get out, especially without a degree. My advice is actually the opposite of EA’s – don’t go to an org so big that they can comfortably keep you doing solely admin work all day. If you are able to find a midsize place that require “many hats” then you have a better shot of:
        1. their being more flexible on things like educational requirements for you to move up, because there is no H.R. policy requiring a B.A. or M.A. etc. for the next level.
        2. Of being able to take on new responsibilities to qualify you for higher level positions.

    2. CA Admin*

      Working on doing a switch now. I got accepted into a programming bootcamp that I’ll be starting this fall. It’s a little scary, as getting your first job afterwards is the hardest part, but I have a really good network and references.

      Have you thought about night/weekend/online courses? There are some good programs now that’ll let you start earning your degree without leaving your job and accumulating a ton of debt. The main thing is making sure you know what you want to do first and figuring out if the program/degree/certification actually helps you get a job in that field. In some jobs it will, but in many it won’t.

    3. Sally*

      Consider certifications that will move you in the right direction. Someone above mentioned a bootcamp. You can find all sorts of opportunities for training that doesn’t necessarily require a degree, depending on what you want to do. Also, informational interviews are great to get a solid sense of the field/position you want to move into and what you need to know/do to get there.

      Another really great option is networking with people in the field you want to join. I’m mid-pivot myself, and attended an event last night for women in the UX Design field and got TONS of helpful answers to my questions as well as offers to connect me to other people who are working in the area I specifically want for my focus. So I’m connecting with people who may know about job openings when I’m ready to step fully into the field AND I’m getting information on what’s relevant and necessary.

      And if it turns out the thing you want to do requires a degree, there are options:
      1) Some schools offer credits for life experience to encourage workers to pursue a degree, which saves you time and money;
      2) Depending on what’s available where you are, you might consider doing community college–MUCH cheaper–to get the basics out of the way and then transfer into a 4-year school to finish up.

      Whatever you choose to do, you don’t need to stay in admin roles for the rest of your life. Good luck!

  57. TotesMaGoats*

    Can I get good vibes for my work BFF? She had on Wednesday her 3rd interview, this time with direct supervisor, and it went great. They’ve moved super fast and we are hoping that it was down to the last two candidates. Just waiting for the references phones to start ringing. It would be a great fit for her in a lot of ways. Plus, I worked with the direct supervisor and my linked in message to him probably got the ball rolling for her. I never thought I’d be a person with “connections.”

    I’ve passed the 4 month mark at NewJob. I heard this morning that the Provost, who I’ve spoken a whole 3 sentences to, thinks I’m pretty fantastic. Probably because of new curriculum I created and the rationale behind it which could win us some major recruitment opportunities. Plus now I get to go to a meeting with some pretty big wigs about new curriculum and I’m so excited. I did about 80% of the grunt work, so it’s nice to know that I’m included in the conversation. And my boss said this morning that they were talking that they weren’t sure if they’d ever be able to replace the person who’s role I took but they all agreed (and pretty quickly) that they had with me. Being a job where you can be happy makes incredible differences. Not that NewJob doesn’t have dysfunction but I’m happy and it has impacted all aspects of my life.

    If you are questioning applying for jobs or even leaving current job because of how it impacts you, I would say that at the least considering applying and getting out there is a good thing.

  58. A Mistake*

    How do you handle references when your boss is family? How bad does that look to hiring managers? I work as an admin assistant for a very small nonprofit, only three part-time people. My mother is the executive director. I stepped in to help her out after her last admin left so the position wouldn’t be empty while she tried to find someone else. It was supposed to be very temporary, only a few weeks or months tops, but I’ve now been here over three years. At the time I was going through a very difficult period and was just happy to have a steady paycheck, but now that it’s looking like I may have to move on in the next few years I’m concerned about how this will impact my job search. I don’t have a degree or much other work experience. My work history prior to this role is spotty at best, and I did some things I’m not proud. I like my job now, I believe in what we do, and I want this place grow but I’m starting to feel like all I’ve done in the last years is make a huge mess for myself.

    1. LK*

      My brother ran into this same thing when he helped the family business for 7 years….. he used references from other employees e.g. site supers or foremen, not the owner of the corp (our family).

      3 part-time people, but one is your mother – what about the other two? Can you get a reference there?

      Also, do you volunteer? Adding references from other parts of your life that are still relevant to your career could help round you out. An example would be, since you’re an admin assistant, volunteering to do data entry or filing for one shift a week somewhere….. just something to get a reference who can speak positively to your admin skills.

    2. NaoNao*

      Well, unless the company is called “The Mistake Family Foundation, run by A. Mistake’s Mother” (Great novel title, actually) I think you can downplay it on resumes and cover letters. Just list your title and the name of the employer. Unless you’re filling out an online ATS, you won’t be required to list your manager’s name and it won’t come up until the interview or reference time. You can just casually mention it “Actually, my mom is the ED.”

      You can also just tell that same story: at first you were filling in, and then it became a great match and made more sense to stay with the company and help out rather than making her hire someone new and start all over again.
      Many people work for husbands or wives, for themselves, for only one client, or for relatives. You’re not the only one who works for relatives, or who’s made some mistakes or done some stuff they wish they hadn’t.
      It’s not as big of a mess as it might seem, I think!

    4. VioletEMT*

      I was in that position. I worked for my dad’s small business, which was named Randolph Winglethorpe, Inc. I was named Violet Winglethorpe. Totally obvious. There was one other employee who I also reported to, so I was able to list him as my supervisor.

  59. Me*

    Grrr, still nothing to apply to and nothing coming back when I do. Aside from that weird automated phone screen I wrote to Alison about. I may go ahead and try it (I’ll report back if I do), but as I posted in comments, judging by the job listing, there don’t seem to be any new skills I could learn. And I’m not interested in pursuing further career options in a law office. It just does not seem worth jumping through all those hoops.

    However, an employer contacted me on Wednesday regarding a marketing proofreader job I applied for back in March; they had initially told me the job was part-time, and I was looking for full-time, and we didn’t proceed. She said they had decided they really needed someone on staff. So we talked a bit and I expressed my interest and she double-checked my contact info and said she would get back to me. So far I have heard nothing. *sigh*

    I have no idea how much it pays, but it would move my resume away from front desk jobs and in the direction I want to go. I hope it’s decent because it’s in the same area as the law office job with the weird phone screen–it’s way across town in a self-contained, upscale community with shops, residences, etc. My insurance agent’s office is down there. I don’t mind driving across town for something I actually want to do.

    I feel like I’m screaming into a tornado and no one will ever hear me.

    1. SeptemberGrrl*

      I’ve been unemployed (after being laid off) and job-hunting for 9 months. It’s harsh. It is very easy to feel invisible and powerless because is many very real ways, I am (as it relates to job hunting). The battle I have to wage is keeping that feeling contained to my job situation and not let it become how I feel overall. Which can be very tough sometimes.

      I found a dream job listing today: impeccable place to work, benefits so good they would make me weep with joy, great fit for my skills, great location and very decent salary range. And I’ll spend today crafting a fantastic cover letter and I’ll send it off and I’ll never hear from them.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I know. Never have I seen this, and I hope it’s not going to become the standard.

        Not long after I posted this, I deleted the email. I just can’t. I mean, I REALLY need a job–I have no money coming in–but I just cannot even. It reminds me too much of this dental office receptionist job I applied for in 2012 where all applicants were invited to a mass interview. They held it at the auditorium in a nearby conference hotel and there were over a hundred people in there. I found a seat, sat there for a minute, and then before they got started, I went out and withdrew myself from the process. I mean, what was that? Were they going to sell us Amway? :P

    3. Trixie*

      Elizabeth, have you a recent thoughts about selling the house to move to a more promising job market? I remember it would be a big investment up front but it may be worth it if the local area doesn’t have much to offer in terms of employer prospects.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I can’t afford to move and live somewhere without a job. There is no way I’m going to get very much out of this house–it’s not in great shape, and the neighborhood is very shabby. I will need to save up more before that can happen.
        It’s not all them; part of it is me. I can’t get the jobs that pay well because of that stupid LD. No matter where I go, I’m still going to have the same problem. :(

  60. i2c2*

    I’m an admin who does a lot of scheduling, and my #1 trivial pet peeve is people using “standard time” or “EST” when it isn’t actually standard time. Is Dr. X available for a call tomorrow at noon EST? I DON’T KNOW, THAT ISN’T A REAL TIME. It’s a completely silly thing to get annoyed about, and pretty arbitrary too (case in point: I still call it “daylight savings time” even though “daylight saving time” is technically correct).

    Anyone else have a trivial work pet peeve?

    1. AllMyExJobsAreInTexas*

      Doesn’t EST stand for Eastern Standard Time, as in the time in NY and DC? I see that a lot for calls since I am in Texas and we are CST, i.e. Central Standard Time. That makes sense to me since a call has to be set as 2pm EST / 1pm CST. Or am I missing something?

      1. i2c2*

        Standard Time is the time it is when clocks aren’t adjusted for Daylight Savings. (“Standard Time” sounds like it should mean “the time we all agree it is,” but it’s actually more specific.) So a call between Texas and the East Coast in December would be at 2pm EST/1PM CST. But in June, it would be 2pm EDT/1pm CDT. (The D is for Daylight.)

        1. Close Bracket*

          That is a peeve of mine, as well, more so bc I live in state that doesn’t go on daylight saving time.

      2. Morning Glory*

        Yeah, that’s my understanding as well. I learned it as EST for Eastern Standard Time, and EDT during Daylight Savings for Eastern Daylight Time (but people usually just use EST all year, I’ve noticed).

        1. AllMyExJobsAreInTexas*

          Ahh, right. I just always see people use EST all year round. But I get that that is not technically correct, hence it being a pet peeve, not actually a problem!

          1. Director of Things*

            A slight pet peeve for me too! But I’m such a people pleaser/stickler for rules that when I send a meeting invite during daylight saving time, I just say 10 Eastern, 9 Central. Avoiding the abbreviation altogether!

    2. Manders*

      My trivial pet peeve is people misusing industry terms. I had a “who’s on first”-esque conversation with my grandboss the other day because she was insisting that someone told her that all our webpages need citations. It turns out she means she wanted actual Chicago-style footnotes in tiny font at the bottom of every section. That is… not what “citation” means in SEO.

      2. Artemesia*

        Old crone here, probably two generations behind in technology and still ROTFLMAO at the idea of tiny tiny footnotes on web pages.

    3. AliceBD*

      That also drives me crazy! I post a lot on social media about virtual events online (a Facebook Live, for instance, or when a giveaway will end) and I get around that by saying “noon Eastern”. It’s a little clunky but it’s better than using EDT and then havin to answer a million comments asking what it is from people who haven’t bothered to read the previous comments and answers.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I HATE THAT TOO!!! Which is why I always use “ET” or “PT” or even “Eastern” or “Central”, because I hate it when people use “Standard” when they shouldn’t. I also admit to being really bad about which one it is at any given point in the year (though I can figure that out very quickly).

      1. CA Admin*

        I do that too! I hate people using EST or PST when it’s not actually, so I just short circuit that whole thing by using ET and PT exclusively. It always irks me every time I see it.

        Also annoying? Improper conjugations of alumnus. Single male: alumnus. Single female: alumna. Plural male/mixed: alumni. Plural female: alumnae. I went to a girls’ high school, so it was pounded into our heads. Later, when I worked for a university in their business school’s alumni relations department, I was floored at how many people there got that wrong. IT IS LITERALLY IN YOUR DEPARTMENT’S NAME/DESCRIPTION.

        1. curmudgeon*

          or you get the ever popular & redundant alumni/alumnae becasue you were a Women’s college and have to make sure you are pc.

        2. Optimistic Prime*

          I get pissy about this too because I went to a women’s college. It grinds my gears to see people say “Jane Smith is a MyCollege alumnus” or “a group of MyCollege alumni.” (Although I’ve softened on the latter a bit because we do have a few students with non-female identities – still kind of irritating, though.)

          1. Hrovitnir*

            Eesh, I wish I didn’t know this now for exactly the reason you mention. I never, ever, ever want to be gendered like that and am sad to know I have to choose between being accurate and needlessly specifying gender. See also: blond/e. Eugh. :(

            (Obviously defaulting to male sucks too. *throws up hands*)

          2. VioletEMT*

            The one that irks me most is when people say that a single person is “an alumni of .” No, she isn’t. That’s like saying she is a students.

    5. Uncivil Engineer*

      My trivial pet peeve is people who print to the expensive-to-maintain color printer when they don’t really need color prints. Like, if they’re printing a word document or a draft of something. The black and white printer is 50 ft farther away. IT has told everyone a zillion times to only use the color printer when necessary.

      1. Zathras*

        Ugh. If I were your IT I would be lobbying to move the color printer to the farthest, least inviting corner of the office.

        1. Artemesia*

          Seriously. How hard is this. Telling never works. Structure works. Make use of the color printer inconvenient. Duh.

    6. motherofdragons*

      My pet peeve is when I ask people to complete an online poll (like Doodle) for a group to pick the best date for something, and clearly indicate the hyperlink with bold and highlighted text, and people still reply-all to the e-mail to say “X date works best.” Some will do both the poll and the e-mail, which is redundant but slightly less annoying. Come on, folks! Follow instructions!

    7. Cassie*

      I misread the post and thought “What is i2ci saying?! EST’ is a legitimate time designation!” And then I re-read it and realized you meant people are using “EST” during daylight saving.

      When I send out meeting notices for international calls, I usually put the timezone for the other person (timezone for us) so it serves as a check that we will all be on the call at the same time – or someone will point out if the timezone calculation isn’t correct. (I was at a hotel in Asia once and pointed out to the front desk that their clock for NYC was off by an hour – I told them that the US was still observing daylight saving even though it was early October. They insisted the clock was correct. I told them to google it. I’m not asking you to blindly trust what I am saying – go verify it for yourself!).

    8. Hrovitnir*

      That’s interesting! I had no idea that’s what that meant – I’m not from the US, so I’m just aware that the time over there is something close to PST on one coast and EST on the other, and had never heard of EDT. It’s totally the kind of thing that would bug me if it was something I used though!

      (I look up a specific place if I need to know, but I actually go to time.is/EST to get a ballpark idea of the time in the USA.)

  61. Amelia Bedelia*

    I wrote in last week about my supervisor who I was pretty sure was getting let go. I’ve since heard more information from Big Boss, who confirmed with me that she is being fired on August 4th. He also told me I could go home early the day they fire her, which eases my anxiousness a bit, since as I mentioned last week, I’d given Big Boss documentation on my supervisor that I thought she could use against me.

    However, Big Boss did say to me that he, and the corporate HR president, believe that she’ll fight it tooth and nail, even though there’s plenty of documentation against her. Today, I remembered an incident that happened that I did not document, that could potentially be useful to big boss.
    About 6 months ago, my supervisor was angry that the printer wasn’t working. She had a big blow up in the copier room (I was the only one who witnessed this), and ended up splitting some wood on a table in the copier room, because she threw down a ream of paper so hard on the table, in anger. I don’t believe anyone but me knows that the damage to the table is from her. Is this worth bringing up to my boss, since it’s physical evidence of her temper (one problem among many)? I know that my supervisor will be let go either way, but I wasn’t sure if this was something my boss would appreciate me bringing to him beforehand, in case my supervisor does try to fight it hard.

    Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated!

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Could you pose it as a hypothetical to Big Boss? “Do you have everything you need for the meeting because I’ve remembered an incident that I forgot to document that might be helpful…”

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Please do bring it up to your boss. Say something like “I remembered a disturbing incident six months ago when Jane…” and say “It really concerned me at the time and I wanted you to be aware of it. I should have let you know then, so I wanted to tell you now.”

      1. Observer*

        It doesn’t really matter. I’d be willing to be she’ll claim discrimination. The more and better documentation the BigBoss has, the less of a problem this will be.

    4. Observer*

      Yeah, tell the boss. The fact that she literally caused physical damage is something they should know. If I heard about this, I’d be thinking about having security available to escort her out, so this is useful information.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I would tell him. Damaging company property is never acceptable. But I guess I would make sure that was the last of everything I wanted to say. I would not keep going to him with yet another story if he has already decided on an action plan. So think about it, is there anything else you want him to know? Then go in and talk to him.

    6. GirlwithaPearl*

      I’m so confused that a boss would give you 6+ weeks’ warning that this person is being fired.

      Why wouldn’t they be fired now? Why is he asking you to know and hold this critical information for so long?

      1. Artemesia*

        This. This just seems crashingly unprofessional. Both weird to delay and to let a subordinate know of a future firing. No matter how bad this person is, this is a rotten way to treat her.

  62. The Cosmic Avenger*

    Do you all think it’s weird for someone to take their shoes off when they’re at their desk? What about if it’s a standing desk? To me it feels more necessary than it did when I had a regular sitting desk, because I have one of those foam standing mats that everyone with a standing desk gets, and I don’t really feel the padding as much if I have shoes on. I have furniture between myself and the door to my office, so you can’t see under my desk that much like you can with other people here anyway.

    1. Amelia Bedelia*

      If no one can see your feet (or smell them!) I don’t see a problem with it.

      However, I wouldn’t walk away from your desk (to use the restroom, go to lunch, etc.) without putting your shoes back on.

      1. LK*

        There are usually OH&S rules about footwear anyways so yeah, what you do seated/standing stationary at your desk when only you know it’s happening is fine….. but walking around the office is different haha

    2. AnotherAlison*

      It’s the best arrangement, physical health-wise, to take off your shoes and stand on a mat at your standing desk. I too have a standing desk and will occasionally take off my shoes (not when I don’t have socks on, though). If people won’t notice anyway, I definitely wouldn’t worry about it, but I agree with Amelia that you shouldn’t walk around that way. We have someone who walks around barefoot (no socks), and it grosses me out.

    3. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Oh, I put them on when I step out from behind my desk! Usually…if I literally am just going to the front of my desk and coming back, and no one else is there, I won’t bother.

    4. galfromaway*

      I take my shoes off when I’m sitting at my desk. More comfortable for me. :) But I’m sitting in a chair, and I’ll either sit cross-legged on the chair (I know, probably not good for me), my feet resting on my shoes (especially if I’m wearing sandals) or on the floor (while wearing socks). But I don’t know how it would work with a standing desk. Probably the same way. :)

  63. Andraste*

    Earlier this week I applied for a position on USAJOBS. I am happy in my current job but someone forwarded the posting to me and it looked like too good of an opportunity to pass up! The job has three levels of qualifications. I arguably meet the highest, but without a doubt meet the first two. Anyone want to share insight or links on the federal hiring process? Does everyone who meets qualifications get an interview? I know people apply to these jobs from all over, but does it work in my favor at all that I’m already local to where the position is located? Would love some insight. Post is an attorney position with the Social security Administration, if that helps. Thanks!

    1. Christy*

      If there is no relocation authorized, then it won’t make a difference to them where you’re located–you’d have to move yourself anyway. (And if relo is authorized then dang, Social Security, way to roll in money.) You will have to Best Qualify (BQ) in order to get an interview, almost certainly. It will likely take a long time for them to rank the packages and submit them to the hiring managers. More than any other job application, this is the kind of position that you should pretend you haven’t gotten so that you don’t go crazy worrying. And good luck! I work for a similarly large agency and I love it.

      1. Andraste*

        Thanks for the input! That’s what I plan on doing. I actually like my job right now and am happy to stay put, but that’s a pay bump and a stability bump that would be nice, ha!

    2. Nosy Nelly*

      You have to hit some bar of “best-qualified” in order to be interviewed, and that will depend on who else applies. Best of luck!

    3. Tabby Baltimore*

      Most of the comments I hear/read about self-identifying one’s qualifications on the site are pretty cynical, I’m afraid. If you have to answer a questionnaire, for example, as part of the application process, some say that if you don’t tap the “expert” button for every category question, you won’t make the first cut. I’m not sure I entirely believe that, but I will say that you should probably be generous with your self-assessment, while still making sure your resume/cover letter (do they even let you submit one?) contains strong accomplishments (even if there are only 1-2 accomplishments) to support your “expert” choice. The hiring process does take a very l-o-n-g time, so the advice up above to “fire and forget” is good to follow. While creating your resume for upload, please keep in mind that numbers are helpful to putting your accomplishments in context (e.g., Did your improvements to a process reduce production times? If so, by how much? Did your management of a product or service increase its use by your customers? If so, by how much, as compared to what it was before?). Please be sure to put all the professional and community awards you may have won, too, along with 1-2 sentences about why (remember, numbers, if they’re applicable). Resume-place dot com is a federal resume writing site a lot of people use, but it has also published books on federal resume writing. If you’re inclined, you can visit the site to get titles, then go to your local public library or big box bookstore to see if the latest version is there. Keep us posted on your progress, and best of luck!

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        I should add that Resume Place is a commercial site, and not affiliated with the federal govt in any way.

  64. Sarasaurus*

    I was in a bad mood yesterday, and ended up sort of snapping at a coworker. Nothing terribly inappropriate, but I came across testier than I intended and she seemed a little taken aback. I apologized in the moment (“I’m sorry, that was rude. It’s just been one of those days”), and she is now on vacation through next week, but it’s weighing on me and I’m wondering if I should do anything else. She is senior to me, and I don’t want this to affect her perception of me, or to get back to our shared boss. Should I send an email? Apologize again when she gets back? Or should I just let it go and avoid drawing attention to it? I’m obviously way overthinking this, but I like to think that I have a reputation of being easy to work with and likable, and I don’t want to jeopardize that.

    1. IvyGirl*

      Don’t email her. Take her aside when she gets back and apologize again in person.

      Then let it go, and try to not get to that place again.

    2. AnonyMouse*

      I think, given that you had the presence of mind to apologize immediately, you can lay it to rest and continue being your likeable, friendly self when she’s back. If you have that reputation, I think it’d be unreasonable on her part to hold it against you. Maybe if she acts weirdly around you when she’s back, you can apologize again, but I wouldn’t bring it up if she is acting fine.

    3. Ramona Flowers*

      You already handled it super super well. Forget it, as she almost certainly will have.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. She forgave you. Work on forgiving yourself. She can’t do that part.

  65. chumpwithadegree*

    We are in cubes with low walls, so sound travels. A coworker likes to circumnavigate the floor each morning to visit and punctuates every statement with a high-pitched, loud giggle -think HEHEHEHE. This is audible throughout the floor. She continues this giggle after every statement, all day. Any ideas about this? It seems petty but not when you spend all day, every day with it.

    1. Let's Sidebar*

      I totally empathize with your annoyance but if the coworker is competent at their job and not letting things slide because they are socializing, this is a you problem. Are headphones an option?

    2. Elizabeth West*

      I had a coworker who did this, minus the circulation. Every phone call, she would say something and then go HUUHAHAHAAHAHHEHHHHHUUUUU. It drove me MAD. She also talked about her wedding non-stop. I liked her; she was very nice, but no. I discovered what soundtracks would drown her out pretty quickly, though I don’t guess you have that option (headphones).

      The only other thing I can think of is to maybe ask her to quiet down. “Hey Cordelia, I don’t know if you realize, but when you’re visiting, it tends to get a little loud over there and I’m having trouble concentrating on my work. I’d really appreciate it if you could turn the volume down a little. Thanks!”

  66. Rookie Manager*

    This week I moved a report to final level sickness review. Another manager will now review his absenses and he could potentially be fired. This is scary and not sonething I thought I’d be setting into motion during my first few months. I’d come to terms with this and started mentally creating plans for different outcomes. Then this afternoon a report who is seconded into my team told me she has an interview for a permanent post next week! I am okay planning for 1 person with sporadic attendence to not be here(quit/fired/long term sick) but if a 2nd person (who is fabulous at her job) also leaves then my small team won’t cope!

    If the punctuation doesn’t give it away; I’m in a panic!!! Any calming words of wisdom or experience will be hugely appreciated.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Panic happens when there is no plan.
      If you need help with building a plan, check with your boss or HR.

      Remember it’s an interview, she may not get the job. So this means there is time to figure out what to do.
      A good thing to tell yourself is that you will learn the procedure this time and the next time will be much easier. You are in the learning curve right now. I have helped myself calm down by learning the steps of what to do and reminding myself that next time will not be as hard as this time.

  67. Zathras*

    I wanted to share this because you all helped so much in the process – I got a new job!

    I was still dithering about whether to start looking when a former coworker reached out about an opening on his team. I went to the interviews for the heck of it, without knowing whether I actually wanted the job, and came away really excited. The role is similar to what I’m doing now, but I think the team culture will be a better fit and there will be a lot of opportunity to learn new things which has happened less and less where I am now. Plus, it comes with a big pay bump and a shorter commute.

    I apparently rocked the interviews, for which I credit Alison and this site 100%. Pretty much everything I know about being a professional adult and navigating the work world I learned here. Plus, I got a lot of great advice from commenters on some of my open thread posts, that really helped me think more clearly through the whole process. So thanks Alison and everyone!

    I’m actually feeling kind of sad now that I have given notice – all the things I like about my current job and will miss are suddenly in sharp focus, and I feel a bit guilty leaving my team short handed. I keep catching myself second-guessing the decision: what if I end up miserable at the new place? do I really know what I’m getting into? etc. I just keep reminding myself that I did due diligence, and how excited I was after learning more about the job in the interview.

    1. Let's Sidebar*

      It is normal when leaving a position that you don’t despise to have some bittersweet feelings, that whole “devil you know” saying exists for a reason, but it sounds like you know this new job is a better fit and have great opportunities coming! Congratulations on the new job!

      1. Zathras*

        Thanks! I do think it’s a good move, I am just the kind of person who is really resistant to changes in my routine, so taking a leap like this is always a bit scary. And I like the people I work with, so seeing them all disappointed that I’m leaving is hard. (Some of them drive me nutty in work-related ways, but they are all genuinely nice people.)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Well thought out, strategic changes are good things. It sounds like you have gotten a good deal for yourself. Congratulations.

  68. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    Y’all–I usually have AAM open on a tab in the background of my work computer and I periodically refresh it throughout the day when I take breaks. Well….my IT team noticed how frequently I visit the site, and now it’s been banned at work because the site caches data and has been deemed a security risk. :( Back to reading AAM on my phone!

    3. Epsilon Delta*

      I am waiting for the same thing to happen to me. They block everything… Facebook, Youtube, external email, anything that looks like a “personal blog”… AAM is all I have left!

  69. Libraryland Problems*

    I am a library director in a smallish college library. We are a staff of 5 full-time persons. One is leaving and will not be replaced. This is our night person.
    We are now expected to rotate working nights and Sundays-not really that weird for libraryland. But we are expected to stay until midnight one night a week. I think that is really unfair to people whose normal schedule is 7-4. It seems overly disruptive to me. I want to make the case that if we don’t have enough people to be open until midnight, without unfair to our existing staff, that we can’t be open until midnight anymore. I believe that reduced services should be the cost of budget cuts. I understand the need for budget cuts, but I think this is asking too much. Is it, though? I don’t mind working until a more reasonable time, and I think my staff is fine with that as well.

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      When I was student library staff, I regularly had to work until midnight.

      I don’t think there is anything inherently unfair about it- presumably you all knew at some point you might get put on the night shift.

      1. Libraryland Problems*

        I think we all knew we could work an occasional night-to cover for a sick person, give a presentation, meet with a student, etc. I can’t speak for the others when they were hired, but one of the reasons I accepted this job is because it didn’t have a regular night rotation (and never had before). Working until 10 is ok with me. Sundays aren’t too bad (~1 a month). Midnight gets me home at 1, and then coming back in 6-7 hours is pretty disruptive to me, though I understand it’s a YMMV type of thing-we all have different tolerances for that sort of thing.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          But why would the person who worked until midnight be the one who has to be there at 7am the next day? That would be bad scheduling.

          Honestly, it would make more sense to just schedule someone for nights, and the other people cover the day, anyway. If you’re going to push back, that would be how I’d push back.

          Telling them that reduced services is something they are going to have to suck up because they decided to cut the budget is unlikely to sway anyone, and will just put a target on your back the next time they are cutting that budget.

    2. katamia*

      Staying so late would probably be really rough on people’s sleep schedules, so yeah, I don’t think that’s fair. Any chance one of you would want to just switch to a later shift permanently? I know I’d jump at the opportunity–I’m a night owl.

    3. Simone R*

      If it’s the only library on campus, I think it would be hard to get that to happen-the students will not be happy (fairly, I think) if the library is closing at 4! I used to work the circulation desk at my college’s library on the midnight shifts, and while it was definitely quieter, there were still lots of students coming in, especially up until 10/11.

      1. Libraryland Problems*

        The library would be open until 10 instead of midnight, so not a drastic change. I think we are all ok with working a later 1-2 nights a week, but midnight is rough if you usually go to bed by 9-10 (IMO).

        1. Simone R*

          Oh for sure! Libraries are always asked to do more with less these days and it’s fair to push back on that. I do think a sticking point to getting it might be fear of the student pushback. Are there other 24 hour study spaces on campus? Can (or do) you do head counts so you have an idea of how many people are using the space after 10? That could help you make the argument that the library wouldn’t lose anything by closing at 10.

    4. paperfiend*

      Yeah, you’re basically asking people to work swing shifts there. I think the Sunday isn’t asking too much, but midnight… I’d push back and say you either need another person or you need to not be open as late. (From someone working at a university, with a spouse who is a small-college librarian).

    5. lisalee*

      I also work in libraryland, and I think what they’re asking is unreasonable. Here we recently had to have two special nights for donors, and there was a LOT of discussion beforehand about whether it was fair to ask us to work just two nights!

      I would also point out that in most places there is extra compensation for people working odd hours. You also won’t be able to keep people on if the library doesn’t honor the hours they were hired for or offer extra perks to make up for it.

      1. Libraryland Problems*

        This is what I am thinking. Really, I just want to make sure I am advocating for the right thing. I think if folks have to work Sunday and get a three day weekend the next weekend (Friday off in exchange for Sunday), that’s a nice perk I can make happen.

        But there is no perk for working until midnight. You can either work until midnight and come in 7 hours later, or come in later the next day and now have two nights of missing evenings with your family (or whatever). And this is in addition to everyone picking up extra work for the person who is going away. I’m trying to get clear in my mind what is reasonable to ask for and what isn’t.

        Our student workers choose their shifts, so yes, some of them are expected to work late, but no one is forced to work very late or very early.

        I don’t want to give too much information about my library, but typically at my sized school, there are way more than 5 full time employees-at lest part time folks to work at night. I’m also looking at other similarly-sized schools to see what their policies are.

        1. GermanGirl*

          The problem with refusing to do night shifts is that from a pure calculation point of view, 7 am-midnight amounts to 119 hours/week and that should be easy to make happen with four fulltime people if you only have to have one person on each shift. If you have to have more than one person on each shift, then yes, you have too few people there.

          As for starting at 6-7 after a night shift, there is some research recommending that you should have a few days off when transitioning from evening or night shift to morning shift, so when you get together to discuss the new schedule you could bring that up.
          https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/shiftwrk.html
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3430894/
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854972/

          Now if one person on each shift is enough and you have 4 people, you might want to suggest that night shift hours should count for more than day shift hours e.g. every hour after 8pm count twice as much – that gives you 147 hours a week to distribute over your 4 employees and leaves you with enough of a cushion to account for people not doing hours because of PTO/sickdays. You could come up with some pretty neat schedules with lots of long weekends there – just have two people do the day shift and the night shift one long weekend and then give them a long weekend the next week when the other two people cover the long-weekend shifts, e voila, you’ve got two shitty weekends and two long weekends a month for everybody.

          I know I’m making lots of assumptions here but that’s just to give you a starting point for figuring out a shift rotation that might work for all of you. And if you find one that you all think will work, go to your boss and say that you’d prefer your system over his.

      2. Language Lover*

        I think it depends on how reasonable your administration is. I do think budget cuts and a cut in personnel could lead to reduced hours. I’d start recording how many students you have in your library from 9-10, 10-11 and 11-midnight so you have data to back up why you may not need to be open until midnight. If you try to cut them, a lot of students might complain even if only 5 people use the library that late at night.

        You could also offer special later hours for finals where you take that scheduling hit two or three times a year.

        But your admin might throw back at you that you don’t need four people working from 7-4 and at least one person should have a night shift.

        In that case, I’m confused as to why student workers can “choose” their own hours? We have student workers and we have very specific shifts they are responsible for covering. Can you change your policy in regards to them and make them responsible for certain shifts? I would imagine there are some students who would be happy to work in a quiet library at night.

        I feel for you. I’m usually responsible for covering late if someone calls in sick. Even though I’m a night owl, the days I stay until 8, 9, 10 and even 11 are brutal on me the next day.

    6. Librarian of the North*

      I would push back on that for sure. Suddenly having to work until midnight is something I would move on over (not that there is a lot of options for moving on anymore). Are there not any laws around how far apart shifts need to be? Here they have to be a minimum of 8 hours apart, so you couldn’t work until 12 and then again at 7.

    7. Another smallish library director*

      Yeah, I don’t think this would work for me, either. I would push back on having a GA or other designated employee working evenings or closing the library earlier: 9 or 10 would be much more reasonable to me.

      I might be a little passive-aggressive, but I wouldn’t be too bothered about students complaining about the library closing earlier if that’s what it comes down to. Sometimes that’s what it takes to get a change to happen.

    8. ginger ale for all*

      I work in an academic library as well. I vote for the reduced hours option. You just can’t mess with a sleep schedule that much and not expect problems. The staff are the greatest resource your library has. Treat them well.

    9. Chickadee*

      Can you hire a student assistant to work nights? Reference services would be closed but they could run the circulation desk. That’s what we do. But we also cut back on reference service hours as we lost staff (when I started 6 years ago, we had reference from 9am-8pm monday-thursday, -5 pm friday, and sunday from noon-5pm. Now we just have M-F 9-5pm reference. The hours shrunk as we lost librarians and couldn’t replace them, which was pretty much because the library director advocated for that with the Dean after reviewing our statistics.

    10. Another academic librarian*

      A Big Name Library Director once told me, when the budget is cut hard enough to impact staff, cut something that will actually impact your users. Otherwise, you will never, ever, get the money back.

      Back in 2008 we lost our night person. We cut hours. When the economy got a bit better, we got the money to restore the position- and the hours.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      Check with your state laws. In my state there has to be 8 hours between shifts for some jobs.

      My next idea is to show how you will have to work short a person in order to cover the night shift.
      You now have 160 hours worth of coverage with the lower staffing levels. Your library is open X hours. Play with those numbers see if you can show how disabling having less staff will be. You will only have Z number of people on at any given time so you will need to stop offering A, B and C services.

      You may try a few ideas and no one listens. Tell them that you are concerned about safety, you don’t want anyone driving while fatigued. So whoever works to midnight on a given day will have the next day off from work. Tell them you feel you have to schedule this way.

      Can you fill in with volunteers or interns?

    12. Artemesia*

      I totally agree. If the city won’t fund the staff to keep it open then the solution is to close one day a week or cut hours in the evening. Budget cuts should come from service not from the hides of staff.

    13. ModernHypatia*

      Late reply, but a previous job had something similar. They ended up going to three student workers who had more hours than most student workers (15 a week, compared to 5 or so for most), who had additional training and who were just around more so they were more familiar with the stuff that comes up, but not every shift or even every month (some of their shifts were while library staff were there, some not.) They covered evenings and weekends.

      Asking people to do a midnight shift and then come in at their regular morning is really disruptive to all sorts of personal life stuff (not just families, but stuff like medication schedules or pets) and I also found coming in late made it really hard to arrange meetings with people in a way that made sense to anyone. (And it gives you a pretty small window for meetings everyone in the library can be at.)

      I’d look at your actual stats (how much of being there needs a regular staff person? Are you getting any reference requests at all or other things that require staff skills or access after 9 or so at night? How many people are actually using the space at 10pm or 11pm or mightnight?)

      Could you arrange money to give a few student workers more hours (ours was partially covered by a ‘get more in-depth job skills’ fund/grant)? Could security walk through more frequently? Could you go to card-key access only to some study spaces and not the rest of the library after a certain hour? (Costs money to set up, but then you give people a study space, a staff member works until 9 or 10, and then gets everyone to move into the late night space). Those are all solutions I’ve seen at various libraries.

  70. Jessesgirl72*

    The VP who said my husband can’t work remotely from the Ukraine “because scary Russians” has been sending him random clickbait type articles this week, citing things that happened 2+ years ago, and still- only to the government. He hadn’t pushed back against her edict- just made the alternate plans and filed for FMLA, etc. He also hasn’t responded to the emails because they are unnecessary, and he can’t think of any appropriate response to a VP about it. We filed it under “The VP is crazy and isn’t going to change!”

    And ironically, the reason his grandboss wouldn’t risk being personally responsible if anything got hacked was because my husband “isn’t critical to the department”- they can do without him for 6-8 weeks, they decided. Only he has worked 12 hour days all week because something high profile broke, and he is the only one who can fix it.

    He has already been browsing job boards. I told him he can’t apply until we get back,but he says he can apply the week or two before we get back, as no one would schedule an in person interview any sooner.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        I’ve been talking about it in previous open threads- surrogacy. We leave 3 weeks from today (OMFG!) and the baby is due 5 weeks from tomorrow. Which his grandboss has tried to subtly remind the VP of (“I’m sure you know why he’s going” and “happy event”) without outright correcting her, and had gotten nowhere. In fact, one of the emails this week was essentially trying to convince him not to go to the Ukraine at all… so either she really has no idea why we’re going, or she’s even more of an awful person than we think she is. The putting an end to the remote work (there is precedent for it- both recent and in his specific department, there is protocol for it, all the security issues had been addressed because they are used to it, and everyone had signed off on it and he’d wasted hours getting trained on the protocol, when she said she didn’t like it, but it was up to his boss, who said yes, so then she got mad and said boss would have to be personally responsible…) “because Russia!!!” was ridiculous, but this continued campaign at him after he’s said okay, he’ll take vacation and the paid parental leave and set up FMLA in case something really goes wrong, is just bat guano.

  71. ginkgo*

    I just have to share: I had my first job interview in five years on Tuesday, and the hiring manager had her little chihuahua with her at work that day. When I sat down for the interview he immediately leaped up into my lap! I felt like I had been chosen, lol.

    (I respect that there are plenty of people who would find this awful, and the interviewer was very mindful of my comfort and said “Oh no, do you mind? I can grab him” as soon as it happened. But for me personally it was basically the most delightful interview ever. Went well otherwise, too!)

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      Awwww, that would actually put me more at ease having a cute puppy on my lap!

    3. Amy Cakes*

      I would have loved that!

      I wonder if he’s good at sensing personalities, and he’s an unofficial test…

    4. SL #2*

      That would be my favorite interview ever.

      One time, an external strategic partner was here for a meeting and it ran through our usual closing time, so I stayed late as admin support, but also someone had brought in their puppies and I was busy cuddling them (they were only 3 months old, so squirmy and happy and the size of a teddy bear). When our partner left the meeting room, she saw the puppies and got so excited that we could have puppies in our office.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Ha, this happened to me when I took that clerical testing a couple of weeks ago. I had just got logged into the computer program when I saw something move under the desk and suddenly, an adorable doggo poked his head up into my lap!

      The employment agency person came running in as soon as she realized he was in there/heard me cooing at him. I told her I didn’t mind at all. I haven’t heard jack from that job, but it was nice anyway. :)

      1. Ramona Flowers*

        I can’t believe I only thought of this after I hit send.

        You showed you had yaptitude.

        I’m sorry…

    7. Mimmy*

      I’m a little skittish around dogs, and if it were a larger dog, I would not be happy. But for some reason, the image of this is making me wish it would happen to me someday :)

    9. Hrovitnir*

      Haha! I mean, definitely not ideal to have your dog loose without asking, but I would be most pleased.

    10. Close Bracket*

      I love dogs, and I have a soft spot for chihuahuas. If it had been me, I would probably have greeted the dog and asked to pet it before I greeted her. However. That was so not ok. She should have gotten your consent to have the dog make friends with you *before* it jumped in your lap.

  72. fond_of_jam*

    I am getting really frustrated with job-searching while pregnant.
    Over the past couple of months, I have been offered two higher-level positions in independent school administration. Both were at schools I would have loved to work at and would have been great for my career. Once I disclosed that I’m pregnant, and will need 12 weeks maternity leave in the winter/early spring, I was told by both positions that since I would not have been at the school for a year by that time, I would be ineligible per their policies. No negotiation, no flexibility.
    Am I expecting too much, or are they shooting themselves in the foot by making it impossible for their top candidate to accept the role? Should I keep looking, or give up and wait until next year (I have a teaching job to go back to in August, I just don’t like it and desperately want a change)?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      You are expecting too much. You would no longer BE my top candidate if I knew that you were immediately going to be gone for 12 weeks. Presumably they need someone to be there, and not miss half of the first year. You aren’t eligible for FMLA if you have worked there for less than a year, so it’s not really “per their policies” but what the law sees as reasonable.

      1. Electric Hedgehog*

        *ehm* It’s illegal to take an applicant’s pregnancy status into consideration when making a hiring decision…

        1. IvyGirl*

          They’re not saying they wouldn’t hire her – they’re informing her that she wouldn’t be eligible for FMLA and she’s self-selecting out – saying that she wouldn’t accept the role due to the no-FMLA.

      2. Optimistic Prime*

        Well, it is per their policies. The law requires that employers allow employees to take FMLA if they have been there for at least a year, but there is nothing preventing employers from offering maternity leave (paid or unpaid) for employees who have been there less time.

        Also, this doesn’t sound like “immediately”. It sounds like some months from now.

        1. Jessesgirl72*

          For a position that starts in late August/September, it’s pretty immediate to then take 12 weeks December-March.

    2. Bolt*

      I would probably wait to job search once you have the baby and are on your leave; at least then you have a known possible start date and no foreseeable time off. It is a lot for an employer to hire someone and then need to give them 3 months off within the first year. It would also stop your progress in mastering the role for a solid 3 months.

      You at least know you CAN get the jobs you want, it is just that now is not a good time to be looking.

    3. Anon Anon*

      You are probably expecting too much. Asking for 3 months leave after only being a job for 4-6 months (depending on when you start) is probably just too much, especially if there are other strong candidates. I’ve worked in a few places that have provided leave to new employee’s who are pregnant, but almost always those employee’s are back to work in 6-8 weeks (whenever they are medically released by their physician), because it’s a new job.

    4. IvyGirl*

      Employers with over 50 employees are able to extend FMLA.

      Employees who work for a covered employer but don’t qualify for FMLA may be denied FMLA leave. To qualify for benefits, an employee must be employed with the company for at least 12 months and worked for at least 1,250 hours during the 12 months prior to the leave. https://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/

      Typically no wiggle room with a Federal law.

      1. Natalie*

        I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here? There is wiggle room in one direction – an employer is always free to offer *more* than the law requires.

        1. LadyKelvin*

          But why would the employer go above and beyond for someone in whom they have no investment. I can see a company making an exception for a proven, valued employee, but for a new hire I see no reason why they would bend over backwards for them. If education jobs in fond of jam’s area are anything like those in my area, they have way more well qualified applicants than positions and they’ll just offer the job to someone else. One of the reasons Lord Kelvin and I don’t have kids yet is because I didn’t want babies in grad school and I knew I would need to wait a year after I got my job to qualify for FMLA. I definitely think fond of jam should wait until after the baby has come to job search.

          1. Anon Anon*

            Investment or how difficult it is to hire for the position. If it’s really challenging to identify a good candidate then I think many employers are more willing to be flexible on this sort of thing. But, if you have many excellent candidates, then there is no need to make this sort of accommodation when not legally required to.

          2. Natalie*

            Sure, those are all valid questions to ask, I just didn’t see them being asked by a mere recitation of a company’s legal obligations. But IvyGirl has expanded their thought below.

        2. IvyGirl*

          What I’m saying is that the employers aren’t out of line telling this poster that they can’t extend FMLA to her. And that she is expecting too much in expecting them to do so.

          1. Jessesgirl72*

            Yeah. Like I said above, it’s not just “per their policy” as she describes it- it is exactly what the FMLA says it has to be. Expecting it to be better than the FMLA mandates is unrealistic.

            1. Natalie*

              Eh, plenty of companies offer more than their legal requirements in all kinds of areas – pay more than minimum wage, offer benefits and PTO, offer more parental leave or don’t impose the same time limit. What’s realistic is going to depend more on field & location than federal minimums.

              1. IvyGirl*

                She’s not applying to Google. She’s applying to school administration – think school districts or school-specific administrative personnel – perhaps a counselor, vice principal, etc.

                Totally different, so the “company/corporate” thinking doesn’t really apply here. Even in higher ed, you won’t get more than the Federal standard.

  73. XT*

    Any tips for job searching and networking while super burned out?

    Context: I’m in the final stages of grad school and also managing a research lab. The lab requires daily human attention. For the past year and a half I’ve been doing it all myself (7 days/week); now this summer I’ve been able to take 1-2 days off per week. Getting more time off than that is extremely difficult so I reserve it for conferences in my field. And I need to be available remotely anyway in case of emergencies, so the “disconnect for a week” advice really isn’t feasible here. (Also, grad school specific resources have been less than helpful so that’s why I’m trying here!)

    I’m graduating soon and need to have a new position (job or postdoc) lined up by then, but am having a terrible time with every aspect of it. I can get enthusiastic about individual projects but can’t come up with any kind of long-term career trajectory to plan for, I’m sick of my research projects and don’t want to talk to anyone about them, and I honestly can’t see myself being an asset to any potential employers so every contact attempt feels like I’m trying to take advantage of them.

    What can I do to find the energy for this procesd? How do I ID positions I would enjoy and/or perform well at when my 5 year plan is “I dunno, sleep forever?” And, now that I have some free days, how can I use that time to address this burnout problem?

    1. Simone R*

      Can you talk to your PI about getting someone to take over the management of the lab? That seems like a lot of work for a graduate student to be doing at the expense of your project, especially since you’ll be needing to start writing and publishing at the end of your time there. That could also allow you to take a real vacation and recharge!

    2. Optimistic Prime*

      What would your PI do if you were hit by a bus? Seriously, it sounds like he’d be in a serious bind if that were to happen. Are you the only grad student in the lab? Are there postdocs or responsible undergraduates who can be trained to take on some of your responsibilities? I’d spend the rest of the summer identifying some other people in the lab who can start to take on some of those responsibilities for managing the lab – because someone is going to have to take over for you after you graduate, anyway – so that you CAN consistently take 2 days off a week and perhaps take a week to disconnect. (Going to conferences is not real time off.)

      The imposter syndrome of not feeling like an asset is really a side effect of a doctoral program. It might help to literally list out all of your skills, hard and “soft” – it may be slow going at first but you will pick up speed. If you have a decent PI, talk to them too about your strengths as a doctoral student. And for shaping a long-term career trajectory, what helped for me was actually looking at some job ads for the kinds of jobs I wanted to have 2-3 years out (I expected to take a postdoc so for me that was faculty positions and government research positions). I learned a lot about what kind of research was in high demand in my field and thought about whether and how my own interests were connected to that research. They were, so I spent a lot of time thinking about shaping my agenda to reflect both my interests and demand in the field to make myself more marketable.

      When you do get time off what do you do with it? Do you do anything for yourself? Socialize, work out, meditate, etc.? When I was doing my PhD I fell into a deep depression in years 3-4, and I realized that it was because I had no life outside of school. By the end of year 4, when I started working on my dissertation, I carved out more space for myself to do the things I really enjoyed and by year 6 I had a regular routine of balancing me things (yoga, running, socializing, baking, trying new restaurants) with writing time. Sometimes I look back on year 6 and I admire my own discipline from afar, and wonder who that person was LOL.

  74. KatieKate*

    I’ve been sitting at my desk for 2.5 hours now and have done absolutely nothing productive.

    I think it’s one of those days…..

    1. Rebecca*

      Oh I know…this is a slow day for me, and I have zero motivation. I have to put my time in, though, and can’t leave for another 4 hours at least. Days like this make me wish for more flexibility, like I could go home now, and work extra on days when I’m really busy the next week to even it out for the pay period. Ah, the problems of a non-exempt worker. Hopefully we’ll get some legislation at some point so this would be allowed.

  75. Ryan Porter*

    Does anyone have advice about staffing/temp agencies and can help me set realistic expectations about them?

    My situation is I’ve been freelance in the marketing sector for over a dozen years. It was great going for a while, but now I’m burnt out and have been looking for over a year for salaried employment with little to show for my efforts. I think one issue is that employers are reluctant to hire someone who’s been on his own for as long as I have been. I think I have a lot to offer a company if I could just get my foot in the door.

    A friend of my wife got her full time job at their employer as a temp initially. It’s looking like an option for me. Here are some questions I have: How should I identify good agencies? What sort of jobs can I expect to be asked to fill? What are some things to watch out for? If anyone wants to share their experiences, I’m all ears.

    1. CAA*

      My experience with temps in professional positions is that you apply for jobs that are posted. Agencies around here don’t just take people on unless they have a specific position they are trying to fill for a client, so when they start recruiting, they look to see if they have anyone qualified who’s coming off a contract and if not they post it on their own websites and the usual job boards. The agency rep interviews you and then if she thinks you’re qualified, she sends you out to the client for another interview and the client decides whether or not you get hired.

    2. tiny temping teapot*

      If you look through jobs on Indeed or Careerbuilder, a portion of them will be temp positions offered by an agency. Apply for things you’re qualified and it could very well turn into a position. As an admin, I ended up applying at these jobs and the follow up came from the agencies, and also being contacted by recruiters who had positions they wanted to fill. I got temp positions both way. (With my current position, I never saw it advertised. A guy from the agency called me after seeing my resume and asked me if I was interested in being put up for the position. I was called in for an interview here (the company where I am temping) and then, honestly, I did the rest of the follow up and let the agency know I had gotten these interviews. When I got the position, I filled out all the paperwork to work at the agency.)

      Check on health insurance – generally the agency offers it contingent on how many hours you work, (but not always) and generally it’s not great. That is/was very important to me and 1/4 of the reason I’m hesitant to apply to another jobs is losing my health insurance.

      The agency SHOULD prep you for interviews, I’ve had a mixed bag with that. It can be super helpful. Some of the agencies will work hard to get you a job and it’s worth calling every week to say you’re available, some of them are useless that way. If you don’t get the job you apply for, you won’t hear from them for ages, if at all.

      Most agencies make you take competency tests to see how you are with the most frequently needed skills. Many agencies will ask you to rewrite your resume to suit where they need to submit it.

      Some times you do all of those things and nothing happens. Which sucks.

      Once you get a temp position, the basic drill is really the same as any job, mostly. Show up, do the work. But I would also advise getting used to keeping your head down and not pushing too much. Full time employees are hired to have ideas and be part of the project, most temps are hired to come in and get task A done. At the same time, it does help if you ask if anyone needs any help once your core work is done. Good for networking, good for getting a good reputation.

      Having been on your own for a while, I think temping for you will work best if you come in to the position being open to learn – temps are junior employees. (This isn’t always the case, every company varies. One of my jobs employed tens of temps, they were very clearly NOT part of the company. At this job, there are 2 temps in the entire office, we’re both treated like part of the company and invited to company wide events and the like.)

      I have now written a book! But last comment: the temp agency pays you, not the company you work for. So you will do your timesheet for the temp agency, then it’s generally approved by the client. Sometimes you have a paper sheet you have to drag around to get signed, sometimes it’s all automated on websites. And questions about pay and payroll go to your agency, not your company. (Plus, if you didn’t already know, the company pays the agency more than the agency pays you – that additional $9 an hour or whatever is how the agency makes money. So you may wonder hey, this company can afford to pay me more than $16/hour but the company is actually paying $25/hour for your services and maybe can’t afford to pay you more.)

      1. Ryan Porter*

        Thanks for your input. It’s really helpful. I have another question.

        Often agencies have listings for available jobs. Do you know if it’s typical that these jobs are the only ones they have available? If there’s nothing that interests me, should I not bother? Or do they typically have other unlisted jobs they’re looking to fill?

  76. happy cat*

    We have an alarm system at work. There are clear instructions on our system as to how to use it, codes, and how to deal with user errors.
    We also have a call list for the monitoring company to call. There four of us on it. I live the furthest away and I don’t drive. Two of the people on the list are within walking distance, with the other being a very short distance away.
    The purpose of the call list has a few parts, one BIG part is that one of our people should be on site in the event of a break in to meet the police within a short window of time. Even if I drove, I could not be here in time.
    Yet my supervisor insists I remain the number one person on the list.
    To make matters worse, the other three people NEVER respond to my calls or the alarm monitoring stations calls. EVER.
    Leaving me the person to get all the calls, for false alarms etc.

    I am super frustrated that they refuse to make the effort to ever respond, and that they seem to regard this as my job, even though I have 0 chance of being able to make a 60 minute commute turn into 15 mins.

    To be fair, I understand this isn’t a priority for them, so I should let it go, but it bothers me that if I do get upset about some of the calls from the monitoring station due to user error, they seem shocked I am upset. Even though I am THE ONLY one to respond, and we have an action plan in place to deal with this that would avoid my being called.

    I am called about once a month, from 6am to 11pm, for context, due to user error.

    Anyway, just frustrated by their unwillingness to see this as an issue because it doesn’t impact them.

    (they even joke how they never respond)

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If I were you I’d just stop answering occasionally. If they can’t get a hold of anyone, I think Emergency Services are called, and around here they charge businesses for false alarms. What if you were busy or napping or sick? The whole reason they have FOUR people is for redundancy, but that doesn’t work if everyone else relies on one person being the only responsible one.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Can you send your boss an email?

      Start with “I want to go on the record as notifying you of a safety issue at our workplace.” Then explain what you have said here in a tidy paragraph or two.

      My key point here is using the words, “I want to go on the record…” This sounds formal and stiff because it is supposed to. I have worked with many types of bosses, even the basket cases were more apt to pay attention when I started out by saying, “I want to go on the record. I am formally telling you [fill in the message here]. ”

      In your message be sure to include that you do not drive, you do not have a license and you are an hour away.
      You can land on something to the effect of “I take my responsibilities very seriously and I am concerned because it is physically impossible for me to respond to an emergency in a timely or even relevant manner.”

      Keep a printed copy of the email for yourself.

      1. happy cat*

        thanks, all great ideas. I formally have voiced my concern, stating that it was impossible for me to get to work in time to respond, and that I fully explained the process. I was told it was duly noted, but we would keep the system as is.
        I think my next attempt will be as suggested, and ignore it a few times. See what happens.
        Thanks for listening to me vent, this is super frustrating, and I was worried I just wasn’t clear enough with them.
        I think it is more that they just don’t think it is important, so, that is that.

  77. Let's Sidebar*

    I manage a small team (first leadership role- thanks, AAM!) and would like advice about defining the role of one of my team members. Her background has always been in the physical side of our business model, but after an injury, she was offered a position as an “office manager” and was in that role when I took my position at this company several months ago. The problem is that she does not have the typical experience and knowledge related to the role. If I am being honest we don’t need a ton of critical support and her covering receptionist duties is fine (she IS great at customer service and guest assistance), but I want the role to have more responsibilities and for her to feel fulfilled and valued. Are there any recommendations for training programs that would give her these skills? Ideally, the training would also illuminate some additional responsibilities that she can propose taking on rather than me having to do the legwork of finding her more work to do, though I am open to the idea that, as her manager, that is part of my job!

    1. Swimmergurl*

      Lynda.com has a wide range of training for an inexpensive cost, plus the membership could be used by others in your organization.

      1. Let's Sidebar*

        Thanks! They literally have a series called “Become an Administrative Assistant”- I’ll definitely look into this. :)

  78. DaveD*

    How does one go about getting the attention of a recruiter?
    There’s been a lot of change in my organization over the past six months or so, and it’s still ongoing. A lot of my co-workers have jumped ship, including 2 direct managers. This morning I had a pretty frank chat with my (outgoing) manager, who said that I probably don’t need worry about losing my job. He added that our office goes through periods like this every so often, and if I am patient, it can be a good place to build a career, but things are going to be pretty rough for a little while (and he obviously can’t really predict what the future holds).
    Anyway, the other thing he mentioned was that he had contacted a recruiter and very quickly was offered a good job at a big salary bump. I’m not completely unhappy with where I am at, but I feel like I owe it to myself to put some feelers out. How would I go about getting on the radar of recruiters or working with one?

    1. LK*

      What’s worked for me in the legal support field when I moved cities: Google “[your career industry] recruiter [your city or area]” then contact the first few hits with a brief intro and a URL to your linkedin. I picked one of the recruiters who replied within 12-24 hours (important – some recruiters didn’t get back to me for 3-4 business days and I didn’t want to be struggling to contact someone who would be arranging something so important to me) and seemed to give a genuine care to represent me. She did a phone interview with me (I was trying to get a job in the city she was in, but I was 100+ km away) and then connected with some potential placements and got me interviews. After the interviews, she assisted me in negotiating salary (since she gets a commission based on my salary she was a great person to have in my corner) and then eventually I got a job offer. From first email sent to a recruiter to first day of work it was 5 weeks for me, and that included a mandatory 2 weeks notice at old job – I probably could’ve started in 3 weeks if I shirked that somehow.

      1. Swimmergurl*

        A lot of recruiters will keep your information on file, even if they don’t have a position to fill at that time. It’s helpful to have a 30-second elevator pitch and some idea of what you want from next position, since they’ll be looking for that guidance.

  79. a girl has no name*

    I am looking to move to a new job, and I would like more responsibility and to move up the ladder in my career. I found a job posting for a director of a very small team at a nonprofit. I have been in my current job for 4 years and it is my first job out of college. I don’t want to look naive by applying for a job way outside of my level, but I have all the skills listed in the posting. No years of experience are listed. Should I apply? Outside of this job, how do I go about taking the next step up? What do I look for?

    1. Let's Sidebar*

      You should absolutely apply! A director position typically indicates a senior position, but if you have the qualifications, go for it. Particularly on a small team, titles can be a little misleading in how experienced people are. The worst that can happen is not getting the job. Good luck!

    2. Director of Things*

      The company won’t hold it against you for applying. They may or may not think you have enough experience, but it can’t hurt! I would highlight your accomplishments or illustrate how well you meet the job requirements in your cover letter.

  80. Sara*

    I’m leaving in a week and a coworker recently told me that when I put in my resignation, my grand-boss said that “well, we don’t want unhappy people here anyway, so it’s good Sara’s leaving.”

    I mean, that’s true, I am unhappy, but I feel like that’s just so dismissive of the actual reasons why. I guess I’m not surprised, but it still makes me mad. I’ve tried, over the past few years, to get changes made to my workload, to the way that my work is implemented, to make things more manageable, but it hasn’t really made a difference. I don’t think saying anything now will make a difference either, but I’m having a hard time getting past the resentment. I’m just generally angry at this job and angry that nothing I tried towards making things better mattered at all. I like my coworkers a lot, I liked the actual work when it’s a manageable workload, but it just got to be too much, and the attitude from upper management is completely uncaring.

    (It’s also ironic that she would say this when nearly everyone on my level is either looking for other work or trying to ride it out a few more years until retirement. I don’t know how it can be so clear to us on the lower levels that this place is toxic when those on the higher levels are so blind to the issues. It seems like there’s a going-away announcement every other week these days.)

    Maybe it will feel different once I’m actually OUT and working in my new job? Maybe it will be easier to let the anger go when I’m not still dealing with this place? Any tips for getting over this and getting into a good mindset for the future would be appreciated.

    1. Susan*

      Wow, another person working for my former employer! They had so much turnover, it was basically a revolving door, and even though most people were very candid about their reasons for leaving (mainly because of terrible management), management was completely unwilling to take any responsibility. At one point, HR required the department manager to do an investigation of why the turnover was so high and of course he was not going to say it was because nobody could stand working for him. And your grand-boss is probably the same — it’s easier for her to say that you are the problem, and you are just an unhappy person, than to admit that she was unwilling or unable to fix the problems that were making you unhappy.

    2. Brogrammer*

      Dismissing an employee’s legitimate concerns about their workload/work environment as a bad attitude, even when employees are quitting left and right? Standard management case of craniorectal inversion. Good job getting out of there.

    3. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I think you’re right that letting go of your anger will be easier once you get some space from your toxic workplace and some time passes. In the meantime, one thing that always works for me as a coping mechanism is distraction. Do whatever you can to keep busy, both at and outside of work, to keep yourself from stewing in frustration. Embrace your hobbies, spend time with loved ones/friends/pets, read a great book, watch some bad TV, think about your quickly approaching freedom, etc. At work is trickier, but perhaps putting together some resources for your replacement to make the transition easier will shift your focus from how much you hate your job to the fact that soon it will be somebody else’s problem. :) I really hope some part of this helps! Congrats on getting out!!! FREEDOM

    4. Not So NewReader*

      What have you been doing to help yourself process the anger?

      Walking is very good for many issues. Anger is a lot of excess energy. If you can find ways for that energy to benefit you, then you win.
      I worked with someone who was angry all day. He bicycled FIVE miles every single night to burn up that anger-energy. (If you go this route make sure you hydrate really well. The anger plus exercise can really pull water out of us.)

      Think about lessons learned here. Consider the possibility that you gave too much of your time and talent to people who don’t deserve it. Decide how you will handle it differently if you see this again in the future. Building a better plan for future instances can provide relief in current time. It’s a message to one’s self, “I will not allow me to be repeatedly kicked in the teeth again.”

      Some foods like turkey are downers, you could load up on foods that do not fuel the anger inside of you. Minerals can also help slow you down so you can think through your desired professional level response to all their foolishness.

      I am not sure that thoroughly getting over this is a desirable outcome. It is a part of your life story. And it’s a part of what makes you be you. Perhaps considering yourself older and wiser is a good course. Definitely recognize and congratulate yourself for getting out of that place, don’t skip this last step.

      And btw, congrats! ;)

    5. Panda Bandit*

      Your grand-boss’ comment is setting off alarm bells for me. Something is toxic here, the workplace or the management. Toxic people never take responsibility for their bad behavior. I’m very, very glad that you’re leaving that place. Congratulations on the new job.

    6. Emily*

      In past situations where I’ve been frustrated and angry, the best thing for me was giving myself time and space away from the people/environments fueling my unhappiness. I don’t think that your resentment will melt away instantaneously when you start your new job, but I do think that it will help – and in time, you’ll start to feel better.

      In the meantime, maybe try to direct your focus to hobbies and other activities that bring you joy? Don’t completely avoid confronting your feelings about the toxic job, but try to limit the amount of stewing you do.

      If you’re into sports or exercise, those can help. Sometimes I can turn a bad mood into a good one by going for a long run or having a good time at one of the sports I participate in. I know that some people also channel their anger into aggressive, high-intensity exercise – that approach tends not to work for me (I end up feeding the anger rather than diminishing it), but might work for you.

  81. The Cosmic Avenger*

    What do you think is the difference between a Web Manager and a Web Administrator (if any)? I see them as interchangeable, but WM is likely to be more content-heavy, and WA is more likely to be more technical, involving more server management/maintenance. Or is that just me?

    1. CAA*

      I would think a Web Manager would manage a couple of Web Admins. I wouldn’t expect a Manager title if there’s only one person who does the day-to-day work of keeping the website up and up-to-date. The amount of technical content in a WA job can vary hugely. Sometimes this person is just a content editor with an admin login to a CMS, fixing typos and posting new content written by others; sometimes it’s more along the server maintenance line; sometimes it’s actual design and implementation work and content development. It really depends on the size of the company and the industry.

  82. CLOSE YOUR MOUTH*

    I work with a junior staffer quite a bit but she does not report to me. She’s a gum chewer ALL THE TIME, including in client meetings. How can I ask her to spit out her gum before meetings? I think it looks completely unprofessional.

    1. motherofdragons*

      Bring it up to her boss, and point out that you’ve noticed that Staffer often chews gums in meetings and you’re concerned it will look unprofessional to other staff/clients/whoever. At that point, it’s up to Staffer’s boss to handle it, since you’re not really in a position to coach her.

    2. Let's Sidebar*

      Do you have an opportunity be alone with her just before said meetings? If so, a casual “Ooops, don’t forget to spit out your gum before the client gets here!” will send the message without making it “a thing”. Since she is junior she may just genuinely not realize this is unprofessional.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        I think I might be a little more direct: “Hey, you might want to spit out your gum before the client meeting, because it can be a little difficult to understand what you are saying when you’re chewing gum/because the gum chewing can be a real distraction during the meeting.”

        1. Close Bracket*

          > “Hey, you might want to spit out your gum”

          This is less direct. It sounds like a suggestion, not a directive.

  83. bleh*

    This is the second time recently I’ve been effectively ghosted for several weeks after interviewing and even though I know it’s common it’s SO frustrating. I certainly don’t expect any decisions or even any movement necessarily; I know stuff happens and hiring takes time, and a couple weeks is nothing in the scheme of things. But if I’ve been in for 2 interviews and I can’t even get a response of any kind to a check-in email 3 weeks later, even just to say “timeline has changed, we’ll let you know when we know something”…super crappy. Ugh!

    1. all aboard the anon train*

      Yes! I’m perfectly fine with not hearing back if I’ve only sent in an application, but if there’s been an in-person interview or even a phone interview, I expect to be told they’re not moving forwards with me. I find it incredibly rude and makes me think less of an employer. It doesn’t take that long to set up a form email to send out to all rejected candidates who’ve had interviews.

      I hate the double standard of employees and candidates being expected to be prompt with responses, but employers can apparently do what they like.

      1. bleh*

        The only positive is that if I do end up getting a rejection I’m already in “screw you” mode :)

    2. Uncivil Engineer*

      My employer is ghosting a bunch of interviewees right now and I find it incredibly rude and a terrible business practice. I was involved in the interviews but am not the person in charge of the administrative tasks such as sending all correspondence to the applicants. I’m embarrassed to be part of this interview process.

    3. Hammer Time*

      I’m sooooo with you! I also interviewed for a position over 2.5 weeks ago and I haven’t heard back despite a follow up gently asking for a status update. What’s worse is that I had a phone screen on Monday before the interview. the recruiter emailed me Tuesday to see if I could come in the next day because the team was super excited about me, and then I cleared my schedule so so come in that Wednesday. Everything moved so fast and everyone I interviewed with said they’d get back to me by the end of the week. NOTHING! This behavior really makes me feel disrespected and demoralized. It’s a shame people on the hiring side don’t have the empathy to understand how being ghosted feels.

      1. bleh*

        That’s what’s happening to me now. Everything moved very quickly at first. I had a second interview with the President/CEO exactly a week after my first interview and everything was positive. Now just radio silence for 3 weeks. Again, I totally get it if something got stalled or whatever, I’d just like the courtesy of some kind of response.

        1. Hammer Time*

          It took me the past week to accept (although I’m still majorly steamed) that I didn’t get the job. I agree, it would be nice to get an update, a rejection, smoke signals, SOMETHING, but despite my frustrations I’ve come to terms that some organizations are just run poorly and plain vanilla rude. While I hope this is the last time this happens to me, I know it’s probably not. I’m okay with allowing myself a day or two to eat my feelings and then I start hitting the job boards again. Hang in there – we have this weekly thread to commiserate!

  84. Employment Lawyer*

    Want to ask an anonymous employment lawyer some generalquestions? Fire away. I’ll check in a few times over the next hour and will try to get to as many as I can.

    Caveat:
    I’m not YOUR lawyer. I’m just a lawyer. So please ask “generally what should people do when XXX happens….” and NOT “what should I do, because XXX has happened.”

    1. Anonymousysysy*

      Your timing is brilliant. Without details, if a coworker were stalking another one with highly circumstantial evidence, what steps should the stalkee take?

    2. Shayland*

      I was fired for being disabled last summer. The investigation through my state’s employment… something? Has finished and this organization that did the investigation wrote out my complaint. I’m not really sure what’s happening… or what’s going to happen.

      Can you provide any insight? Will I need to go to court? Will they call me? Send me mail?

      I’m 20 and this was my first real job, so it’s all a little overwhelming.

  85. Delta Delta*

    Happy Friday! My new little business is so incredibly busy I’m wearing myself out. This isn’t meant to be a humblebrag, I’m just excited that only a few months in I’m doing well and generating a lot of work!

  86. aspiring gov't worker*

    I am in local government, having worked in one agency for almost 4 years, and have just been offered a promotional position at a new agency (informally, formal offer will not come until after background check/transcript/experience verification – SOP for my jurisdiction). This isn’t the first time I’ve changed positions; I’ve been promoted once and changed job title/department another time, but both were at my current agency. And the thing is, I am so conflicted! I think part of it is that I am just comfortable at my current agency, I’ve been here several years and know how things go. But part of it is that the job is very different from what I’m currently doing.

    After I finished grad school, I took a position at current agency because I was desperate. The work was potentially interesting (quantitative & analytical), but I was too low level to get much responsibility, and it wasn’t the field that I studied in school. After two years, I finally secured a lateral transfer to a new position within the department, but also within my educational field. It turned out to be a role that was really poorly scoped – my supervisor had been given a position to fill but had only a really vague idea of what she wanted out of it, and hadn’t put much thought into what work I would actually do. It turned out that after months of spinning my wheels to write a work plan and try to gain support from stakeholders that there just wasn’t institutional buy-in for my role. So I cobbled together odds and ends of projects. Finally I have a mostly-full plate, and just a couple months ago my immediate supervisor was changed to someone I have a much better working relationship with. Over the last six months or so I’ve also taken on new responsibilities and grown quite a bit in my role – and for the first time I am really enjoying it!

    However, I’ve been looking for new roles since the current one wasn’t working out for most of the time I’ve been in it. Since I wanted a promotional opportunity it’s taken a long time – I’ve been looking for positions for going on 10 months now. Also, since my current position was such a struggle, in addition to promotional opportunities within my education field I was also looking back at the area my first position with my agency was in, and applying for similar analytical roles but at a higher level. This new position is within that domain rather than my educational field. Since the mission of the new agency is very different than my current one, I am afraid that I would have a hard time switching back to my educational field in the future, at least without taking a step down. And there’s something to be said for specialization in terms of career advancement – I am afraid I would be sacrificing that by going back and forth. And while this position seems very exciting, and I’m still drawn to the possibility of doing very interesting things, I am also wary of my prior experience from my first position, where there was actually not a lot of opportunity to have an impact. Complicating everything, there is a promotional opportunity within the team I’m currently on – I would get to keep the projects I love but take on a higher level of responsibility and possibly supervise staff. But because of the rules of government work, it’s possible I won’t be qualified to even interview, and I have no way of knowing before I make a decision.

    I could use any advice at all – I really don’t know if I should take this new position or not.

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      I left a gov position I really liked for another position in the same organization that was… fine. It was a hard decision but I had no more room to learn new skills at Job1 and there were no opportunities for advancement. I was stagnating. It was a good decision for me even though it was a lateral move. I learned things at Job2 that I wouldn’t have had a chance to experience at Job1. And, knowing that I could always make another move after a few years helped me make the decision.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Is the new position a dead end?
      When faced with a tough choice I like to look at each option and say to myself, “If I chose option A and it does not work, where will I go?” Then I consider the question “If I chose option B and it does not work, where will I go?”

      Sometimes the best you can do is pick the option that does not paint you into a corner where you have less options in the future.

      1. aspiring gov*

        That is something I’m concerned about – the new position is a role that exists across a number of agencies (including my current one, in the role I had before), but it tends to be one person or a small team, so there’s not a huge amount of options to grow into. My current role has probably 60 positions in just my agency, and at least 200, maybe 250 across the city. It’s a competitive field but probably has more room for me to grow.

  87. Clewgarnet*

    Anybody got tips on how to cope with a hot-desking environment?

    My employer’s just moved to a ‘fabulous’ new office where we all get to experience the joy of ‘agile working’, aka, nobody has their own desk and anything left on desks overnight is binned/taken hostage so we can’t even unofficially claim a desk.

    Thankfully my manager lets me working from home three days a week but that’s still two days where I have to cope with an environment that’s hostile to getting anything done. Has anybody survived anything similar and got any tips?

    1. Rebecca*

      I’ve never experienced this, and I work in an office, and am totally unsure of how I’d navigate that. I have a lot of paperwork, I have pens, highlighters, stapler, a phone with my extension on it, voice mail, and all sorts of charts, reminders, folders…how exactly does this work? I’d need a small suitcase to haul my stuff around in, and it would take a lot of time each day when I located a desk just to get organized, only to repeat that 5 days a week? I also keep snacks and extra personal items in my desk to make my work day more pleasant, like flavored tea.

      What am I missing? This sounds absolutely horrible.

      1. Clewgarnet*

        We have a small locker to keep essentials in (including laptop risers, footstools, wrist supports, power supplies for our laptops, etc.) and we’re largely paperless. Phones are all done on our laptops – Cisco softphone – and cellphones.

        Yes, it is absolutely horrible and it does take about half an hour to get ready to work in the morning. I’m hoping people with more experience of hotdesking will have some tips.

        1. aspiring gov't worker*

          I don’t have this set up myself, but here are my thoughts on how to cope: I might write out a document for myself that outlines everything I need to do every day to get set up and working. Then refer to it every morning (and tweak as necessary) so that I have a spur to remind me to do x, y, z, in order to be comfortable working.

          I would also try to find a desk or area I like and then make a habit of staking it out every morning. I may not be able to claim it permanently, but I can do my best to subtly establish it as my space by just being there every day. Then I can get used to where the outlets are, how to position my things within the space and it becomes more of a constant. But remember that you might show up sometimes and someone has already gotten there – then just quietly make do for the day and try to return tomorrow, but unfortunately you don’t actually have an ownership claim.

    2. Lily Rowan*

      When the place I worked was considering something similar, at least people were going to have a file drawer on wheels or similar, so we could at least have some stuff of our own… That sounds like a nightmare.

    3. Not So Bad Candidate*

      We had this when I worked at a call center. It was an ergonomic nightmare, all the desks were just slightly different and the catalogs would be different at every station. You had no idea how clean the desk was or if someone yesterday sneezed all over it. You had to carry any pens with you and you couldn’t bring your purse with you, so that meant carrying them all by hand. I hated it and it was one of the many reasons I left.

    4. blatantlybianca*

      I mostly WFH however go into the office 1-2x a week. I grab whatever desk is available and use private rooms for conference calls if it’s too noisy in the office area. I had to re-train myself not to care, and it wasn’t easy but now I can’t imagine my previous methods helping me be successful in the work environment I’m in currently. I’m now finding it really nice not to have a dedicated space bc I can work wherever and be productive. Our office has a shared patio space with the other offices and it’s nice to sit outdoors sometimes. It took awhile to transition from having a dedicated space/office to this but you can get there.

      To get into this mode of thinking, I went online for all of my files, tasks and project management needs. I use a blend of Asana (team projects/calendar), MeisterTask (my preferred project to-do list) and Dropbox/OneDrive (file storage). I’m a heavy user of post-it notes still, but that I can drop in my bag until I get a chance to transfer it to one of these tools. I’m also a HEAVY user of Evernote and have my running to-do lists and main work projects there so everything gets noted in there. I also carry a pencil-case type bag with my tech needs (cords, dongles, headphones, chargers). Everything gets loaded into my backpack so it’s portable.

    5. Tabby Baltimore*

      I haven’t been in a daily situation like you, but over the past two years I’ve had to switch desks about every 6 months, and it doesn’t look like this is going to stop in the foreseeable future. I really like the ideas of BlatantlyBianca and aspiring gov’t worker, which I hope you’ll be able to implement. If you can think of your adjustment as a process rather than an event, this might help take some mental pressure off to get “everything right” from the get-go. I don’t have much to add, except to suggest that if you are professionally acquainted with someone in your office, or building, who might be plugged-in enough to know when a “surge need” is likely to occur (someone who works in building/facilities management [including security], administrative support, or IT support, for example) *before* it happens, start cultivating this person now. Knowing when a surge is about to occur, and its expected length, could possibly help you w/arranging your WFH days vs. “in-office” days ahead of time.

  88. Mazzy*

    I am very anxious at work this month. I had coffee with a lower level worker and the things that he was saying he was getting in trouble for are not things he should be getting in trouble for. It is an area I know well, his supervisor doesn’t. I spoke with my boss and the supervisor and my concerns were dismissed. The gist I got was that since this person made other mistakes I’m not aware of, they are basically holding him to a higher bar on the items I raised. OK, but there are other people who earn much more that you don’t hold to the bar.

    I’ve been responsible for so much lately, just dozens of inbound and outbound work and problems and money and new markets that it just doesn’t mean anything anymore, and I am losing a staff member soon who threw a fit so a VP gave him a role on his team. Things seem really unbalanced between me and this adjacent department. Yesterday I caught wind that their project now includes mapping on a map where our customers are, using some avant garde new trendy computer program. Meanwhile we are losing money in various areas because they don’t pay attention to real work. Not that I want them to get involved, because I don’t feel they will actually fix anything – they tend to only want to “manage” solutions, which means a conference call, being curt with someone, then patting themselves on the back for “solving” it.

    To be honest, I’m not looking to backfill the open role I have because I don’t want someone to have to deal with the stresses I am.

  89. El Camino*

    I can’t focus lately and I know it’s because of all the uncertainty of what’s going on at my job.

    Coworkers are actively trying to get my boss fired, and while I can understand some of their frustrations, a lot of it just seems like an excuse to unleash some bitter personal resentments they’ve felt over the years. Plus I’ve got firsthand experience to know I can’t trust them. And our organization as a whole is facing funding changes that may mean pretty significant layoffs across departments. I know I’m not alone in being worried about my job security but ugh. Every single day this week I’ve had this ball of stress in my chest from overhearing conversations I shouldn’t be (thin walls, and headphones only work to a point) and wondering if I need to jump ship or wait it out through the summer.

    It’s killing my productivity, and it’s so much easier said than done to just breathe, focus on what I can control (my work), and ride out the storm. Any coping tips would be greatly appreciated!

    1. Swimmergurl*

      I used to bring a book and go somewhere nearby for lunch and read. It helped to get my mind off things.

  90. Oy vey*

    In the realm of karma or just a really interesting situation for those who like reading about such things:

    I’ve had some issues with my current place of business. I was demoted early last year as a result of a reorg. I was told it had nothing to do with performance issues, just a flattening of the heirarchy. (Personally, I think it was to take some of my salary and give it to one of my colleagues they didn’t want to leave). About 3 months ago, they created a new managerial position (basically my old job with a new title) and gave it to a colleague. I did not get a clear answer as to why this happened. Was told I was a valued employee, etc. etc. I decided to stick it out and look for a transfer. Because despite these situations, I actually had a pretty good relationship with everyone. I’m finishing up some certification and figured I would start to look at new positions this summer when lo and behold – not only is the manager going out on maternity leave, but the director is going on FMLA, leaving my department without senior leadership for at least 2 months. Guess who they asked to fill in?

    What makes this all more comical is that now that I’ve been given short shrift, I was perfectly content to skate by on my general work until a transfer was available. I’m not particularly interested in running the department and actually wish they would give it to someone else. But, after a perfectly congenial conversation, I know it’s the right thing to do, especially as both bosses offered to give me glowing recommendations for the transfer I’m hoping for.

    Still. Oy vey.

      1. Oy vey*

        I kind of laughed my ass off about it when I got home. I felt a little bad for my bosses because (how awkward did they feel??). Mostly what I feel is a small sense of irritation, this whole situation is like having a bad mosquito bite . You can tolerate it, but damn it’s frustrating and you can’t wait for it to go away (which it will eventually)

  91. JC*

    I had a phone interview today with a place I’m REALLY excited about. I can’t believe I didn’t know this place existed before they popped up on a job search site. It’s a big career step for me, and my location is a little meh in their eyes… but the job description is a thing of beauty. Here’s hoping!

  92. Roseberriesmaybe*

    One of my coworkers keeps making joking comments about how unattractive another coworker is! He seems to be ok with it, but it makes me feel weird… The main quality in the people you work with should be how good they are at their jobs, not how much they look like Prabhas…

    1. Sadsack*

      Can you speak up and say that kind of talk is really uncalled for and please stop doing it?

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Do you mean Prabhas, the Indian film actor? Because I just googled the name and that man is NOT unattractive. O_O

      Also, what Sadsack said. Her comments are totally inappropriate. Call her on it.

      1. roseberriesmaybe*

        Ha, no, I meant Prabhas is a total babe, but your coworkers don’t have to be stunners too for them to be good at their jobs!
        About saying something- they have been working together 15 years (both men of a similar age), where I’ve been working with them less than 6 months. It’s all joking(ish) stuff, like, “You know she’s marrying you for the money, right?” I give a kind of stern look whenever I hear it, but I don’t know if there’s anything I can actually do, since he doesn’t seem put out by it…

        1. Not So NewReader*

          That is their way of communicating with each other. It took me a while to realize that when people like each other they can bust on each other a lot. It’s because there is a solid friendship underneath all that teasing.

          If you try to correct this it will look odd. You can feel weird if you want or you can just decide to ignore it. Personally, I would act amused for a while, then say, “Can you two talk nicely to each other for -oh- five consecutive minutes or so?” Or I’d ask them if they were taking their comedy routine on the road any time soon.
          It sounds like they are basically nice people and this is how they deal with the boredom/over-familiarity of their work. Remember they have been doing this for 15 years. They could probably do it in their sleep.

        2. Hrovitnir*

          You could always ask the recipient privately if he’s actually OK with it? My norm is definitely friendly jibes with friends, but I have run into people laughing along with something they hate for years because if they don’t they’ll be ostracised. :/

  93. Emily*

    I asked for more money. My manager tried to get me more money but was unable. He is adamant that he wants me to stay. I’m actively job searching. There are some things that would make staying around more attractive, but they’re definitely things other employees aren’t getting, like being able to spend some of my time focusing on developmental projects (learning new skills) and working from home a couple of days a week. Would it be a mistake to ask? Also, if this works out, am I committing myself to staying for some significant length of time? Because I might still leave soon anyway.

    1. Soupspoon McGee*

      It doesn’t hurt to ask–then you will have more information about your options. But if you do agree to stay, plan to stick around for about a year, unless an amazing opportunity falls in your lap.

    2. LK*

      I would keep job searching…. it’s one thing to be asking for those things IF they would be make-or-break and get you to stay…… but if they’re not enough, and you would still leave, then I would just focus on trying to get a good reference out of them and not rock the boat more than needed.

    3. BRR*

      I would keep searching no matter what. If they really want you to stay and legitimately can’t increase your salary then you are well within your right to ask for other things they can give.

  94. Client interfering with job search?*

    I am job searching for various reasons, among them being that there isn’t room for growth at my current employer. Our biggest (but not only) client is company A, who also does a lot of work with company B, and as a result we have some interaction with company B. Both companies A and B have approached me with potential jobs. I much prefer company B, in part because the client contact at company A is a micromanaging bottleneck — and she would be my boss. However, in my discussions with company B they keep bringing up things like “well if company A likes you and you like them, maybe that’s where you want to be” and “sorry we haven’t gotten back to you, we haven’t spoken to [client contact at company A] yet.” I have done my best to express that I would prefer company B without denigrating company A, and I really have no idea why they would need to talk to company A before getting back to me – as far as I know, the job is not specific to working with company A.

    I am worried that the micromanaging contact at A might be calling dibs on me or telling B to back off, or that B might be asking permission to hire me for some reason. B might only be negotiating how much work I could do with A, but our discussions have been about me working with other clients as they already have two point people for A. I know that prospective employees don’t get to know what’s being said about them behind closed doors, but it is understandable to feel weird about these two separate prospective employers having conversations about me to which I’m not privy? How much can I ask about when they casually mention they’re having these conversations? I have tried to gently affirm my preference for B but I really want to scream “the client doesn’t own me, and if they’re interfering with my job search in any way I don’t want to work for them!”

    1. katamia*

      Do you really want to work for a micromanaging bottlenecker even if it turns out she’s not trying to sabotage your chances of getting a job at B, though? I confess I don’t really understand why, if you’d strongly prefer to work for B, you haven’t said no to A yet.

      1. Client interfering with job search?*

        A has a lot going for them. The pay would be about 10% higher, there is a lot of potential for job growth, and there are neat opportunities like 2-3 month posts in new offices as they open around the world. I know from someone who has a job similar to what mine would be that it would take about a year for my potential boss to loosen the strings enough to let me manage projects on my own, so there is light at the end of the bottleneck!

        1. Swimmergurl*

          I was recently lured to a company with higher pay and great benefits, and when I started working there, I discovered the place was awful and unethical, likely why they were struggling with recruiting in the first place. Money and benefits are important, but don’t ignore culture, especially if you get the feeling Boss A might be indicative of larger internal issues. A symptom of the disease, if you will. Also, are there any other opportunities out there besides a and b? Maybe a company c that has been overlooked? There doesn’t seem to be a reason to limit your search to these opportunities.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            I think I would be looking around for company C also. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary tension and drama with A and B.
            I wonder if this would continue on once you get hired, OP. Will B call up A and ask if it is okay to give you a new chair or a small raise? Ugh. My bias is I do not do well with indecision and B does not seem very decisive. For whatever reason they have hooked their wagon to company A and it seems to weigh B down as opposed to helping them.

  95. look_a_squirrel!*

    How would you address poor table manners with an up-and-coming employee? We are working on a project together that requires off-site meetings, luncheons and dinners (possibly overnight trips) and there is an obvious lack of knowledge on fine dining etiquette. The employee also has a habit of sniffing loudly (more like snorting) that is very distracting in meetings. Any tips?

    1. Zathras*

      No experience with this, but I would be kind and specific. Don’t just tell her she needs better table manners generally – pick a few things she’s doing that need to stop or change, and give a specific outcome. Frame it as “hey, you probably don’t even realize, but you’re doing X and Y when you eat and at a business lunch that’s considered a little too casual. Could you work on doing A and B instead?”

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Is it overall, or just a few things? Could you possibly frame it as training and have her take some etiquette training? If it’s just a couple of things, and the sniffing, then you could make suggestions like Zathras says. If her upcoming responsibilities include a lot of dinners, like client hosting, etc., then some training might be a better bet.

  96. all aboard the anon train*

    I wrote a few weeks ago about how my boss was punishing me for going on vacation. I’m still on vacation until Tuesday and I’m really dreading going back to work, and his reaction has been eating me up on the days I haven’t been traveling. A coworker I’m friendly with sent me a message on LinkedIn saying that the department was slammed with new incoming projects and my boss was freaking out because I was gone for 7 days and it meant none of my stuff would get started immediately and my coverage was too busy to handle any issues for me that came up.

    I know this is a normal part of work, but I hate how anxious it’s making me during the vacation I took to relax. It’s making me realize how absolutely miserable I am in my job. I really wish I could quit as soon as I go back, but I’ve been job searching for a year without any luck and I don’t think I can risk quitting without a job lined up.

    But my stomach is in knots over going back to work next week and my boss being passive aggressive about me being on vacation (he’s gotten so worked up about it that he’s apparently told other coworkers that it’s irresponsible for me to take vacation during this month….which goes back to the point of me wondering why he approved the vacation if he didn’t want me to take it).

    1. Soupspoon McGee*

      That sounds awful! This is not a restful, restorative vacation. I’ve had a few jobs where I felt anxious about the boss’ reactions and criticisms. I’m willing to bet that your boss’ reaction to your vacation is not the only thing he does that causes stress for you and your coworkers. If it’s possible, tell yourself that your boss’ stress is due to his own bad planning around staffing and timing. You are taking a vacation that you are entitled to; it’s part of your compensation, just as your coworkers’ duties to provide coverage are part of their jobs.

      It was enormously freeing when I was able to shift my thinking by sorting out what I could control and what I couldn’t. So, if a boss was frustrated that I wasn’t doing unspoken things that were important, I tried to find ways to get more clarifying information. But for the boss who found fault with everything I did, even things that were in my actual job description that I wrote and were the actual law, I realized I could never please her. Okay, that was stressful no matter what–but I was still able to stop worrying about her opinions because they were already fixed.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        I think my biggest problem is that my boss says I’m the team’s “rockstar” (ugh how I hate that term) and that he trusts me implicitly, but then he panics over anything he can’t control. When I had jury duty last year, he wanted me to create a one month contingency plan if I was selected, which seemed extreme. He thinks we need coverage if we take even an hour off, and it’s not like we have the type of job that necessitates that since if someone gets an answer next day, it’s not holding anything up.

        Before I went on vacation, I received a project and he wrote a three paragraph email telling the person who sent me the project that I couldn’t take the project because I was going on vacation and it was too much for me to handle….and then got flustered when I said it wasn’t an issue because it had a two day turnaround (he apparently thinks everything takes more work and time than it really does).

        He does need to stress out about something and creates more work for himself, but it’s just exhausting. I feel like I’m being told one thing and then criticized for doing that same thing. I’ve honestly spent most of my vacation wondering if I should just give my notice.

        1. Swimmergurl*

          I’ve had bosses like this. In my experience, these managers are often the ones who get promoted because they are great at painting teapots, but then, when they have to delegate the painting of the tea pots and shift their focus elsewhere, they get pushed out of their comfort zone and panic. Any chance your boss could benefit from some management training? Maybe you could find a session and invite your boss to go with you, in a non-threatening way.

          On a positive note, it’s great that you’re so valued. But like Soupspoon said, you’re entitled to vacation, and it’s completely fine to set some boundaries.

          1. all aboard the anon train*

            The idea is nice, but my boss also gets really defensive if he thinks his work ethic is being criticized. At one of our team meetings, I mentioned how the rollout of a new product from a different department I work with wasn’t fully complete or bug-free and it made me job so much harder, and he got very defensive even though he had nothing to do with the rollout. I have to preface any complaint with, “this isn’t about you, but…” so he doesn’t get upset. It’s like talking to a child sometimes.

            Not that my company even has management trainings, but if they did, I don’t think there’s a way to do it without him getting defensive. He got promoted because of seniority, which I think adds to the problem. My company is notorious for promoting based on seniority instead of ability.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              And he knows he does not have the ability to handle the job. Sometimes these people are the worst bosses.

              I think the best you can do is offer reassurance. Perhaps you can offer him bits of guidelines he can use in the future, in other words, as if you are training him.
              The job that took two days, encourage him to ask you how long it will take rather than assuming the worst. Or say, “Xs can be turned around in two days.” Show him rules of thumb. (because he does not have any….)

              I hate saying this but having contact with your coworker while on vacation is not helping you. If they cannot avoid talking about the job, then you probably should avoid their messages. It’s adding to the upset, not lessening it.

              I worked for one of these bosses. I think my boss enjoyed being the long suffering employee. If I tried making things easier I was interfering with Boss’ definition of who Boss was. I think Boss was aiming to be cannonized as a saint for all that suffering. I don’t see where your boss will ever change. All you can do is make changes to how you are handling the situation.

              Get something to take like Pepto for your stomach. Work with whatever product you chose whenever you have the smallest symptom. Continue over explaining, it seems to be of some help. I think it is more like you are the professional in the conversation and he is the insecure newbie.

              Have you set a date you will be out by? I gave myself 12 months. I was out in 7.

              1. all aboard the anon train*

                The only place a coworker can contact me is LinkedIn. I purposefully don’t give out my personal email or my cell phone, or friend anyone on social media, because I want to maintain the work/life balance. I normally wouldn’t have read the email but I was cleaning out my email on my phone and it was the next one up and I read the first couple of lines (I’d have ignored it if I was looking at my email on my computer, but it’s harder on the phone when you’re just deleting and it’s the next email that automatically pops up). I didn’t respond, but it still bothered me and I’m regretting not just deleting the email entirely.

                You’re absolutely right that my boss wants to be seen as a saint for suffering. As far as a date to be out, I promised myself last June that I’d be out by this June, but well……it didn’t end up working like that.

                1. Not So NewReader*

                  Here’s to June 2018!

                  (What else is there but to try again? Make some tweaks to your strategy and run at it will all you have. Sending good vibes your way!)

  97. Library Woes*

    What should I do if a colleague is giving out HORRIBLE resume advice?

    I am a librarian at a huge metropolitan library and a colleague at a different branch is telling people to format their resume to be busy as all getout. She makes functional resumes with a section that’s just a list of words trying to get caught in a computer filter, and the employment history is a list of job titles with dates. She also makes rampant grammatical errors when making the resumes.

    Our patrons are usually totally ignorant of resume formatting and appropriate grammar. Lots of them are just trying to get entry level jobs at a grocery store or something and accept her resumes as golden beauteousness.

    What do I do?????? Worst part is, she’s an official career coach for our part of Huge Metropolis so lots and lots of people are referred to her all the time. Only people in my neighborhood tend to come to me.

    1. NaoNao*

      Can you create a survey of *all* the services you offer and include resume advice and career coaching? That can give you some hard data to start with, that you could bring up at the next “How are we doing” meeting.
      If you’re getting negative reactions and returns or suggestions, you can then note those and ask for specific improvements.
      You can, if you have the political clout, ask for a series of sessions, like “Library 2020!” where you look at and overhaul *all* services and offerings. Are you following the latest protocols and best practices?
      Can you set up informal “lunch and learn” brown bag webinars with companies or colleagues who are doin’ it right, and include Hapless Career Coach?

  98. Cafe au Lait*

    Bathroom coverage question–

    I’m pregnant and as such, need to use the bathroom often. I always use the restroom before I head out to the public service desk. My desk shifts are three hours long, and I need a quick break and hour-and-a-half to two hours in.

    Department policy is to ask my coworker for coverage first before asking one of the librarians. Every single time, I ask my coworker and she says “Let me finish what I’m doing first.” (The librarians on the other hand get up while saying “sure!”).

    Am I wrong to be really annoyed by this? Yesterday I almost urinated on myself while waiting for her to get out to the desk. I try to give my coworker has much lead time as possible, but sometimes I need to go NAO.

    1. LK*

      Does your work know you’re pregnant? It’s possible that coworker just genuinely doesn’t understand the urgency. Have you communicated to them the fact that your timeline is shorter than an “average” person?

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Can you find a way to ask before it’s urgent? Like: Plan for hourly bathroom breaks, so you can absorb a few minutes of her finishing up.

      Generally, it’s reasonable that she should be able to finish up what she’s working on and not leap up on your schedule. Of course, if you’re having a genuine emergency you should let her know and she should be accommodating — but it sounds like you can predict your schedule.

      1. Sadsack*

        Yes, maybe actually scheduling bathroom breaks at planned intervals a bit earlier than when you normally have to go would help you not have so many emergencies. Maybe hit the bathroom every hour? Sorry if that wouldn’t help.

    3. all aboard the anon train*

      I think your coworker has a right to finish what she’s doing. Sometimes getting interrupted in the middle of something means you’ll never get in that right frame of mind again. If she’s taking five to ten minutes to get out to the desk, I don’t think that’s a problem. If it’s 30 minutes, yeah I can see why you’d be annoyed.

      I have a bladder issue (on a bad day, I’ll go every 20-30 mins for about two hours) and when I worked jobs where I needed coverage for bathroom breaks, I knew it was inconveniencing my coworkers. Especially if it was frequent or I didn’t give them much lead time. So while I get the having to go immediately, you’re also asking a favor of your coworker. If it’s an emergency, I’d say something like, “I really have to go, can you cover now?”

    4. formerly pregnant Librarian*

      Yeah, I think you need to ask her either 1) 5-10 minutes earlier than you need or 2) in advance.

      And sometimes when I was pregnant, I just went when I had to and as quickly as possible, even though it meant leaving the service desk empty.

      1. Swimmergurl*

        Maybe you could ask to be temporarily reassigned to other duties that would be more accommodating to frequent bathroom breaks? You could offer to pick up extra service desk shifts after you come back from maternity leave.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think you should just say NO, as in:

      You: “Can you cover for me while I hit the restroom?”
      Her: “Let me just finish what I am doing.”
      You: “That is not an option for me, I need to do something right now.”
      Her: [starts to argue]
      You: “I will be very quick I promise.” [leave without waiting for her reply]

      OTH, maybe some one could explain to her that your need for the bathroom cannot wait and the reasons why.

    6. The Unkind Raven*

      Yeah, I don’t think it’s reasonable for you to be annoyed. You’re interrupting her work – more even than usual – and I think it’s in you to come up with a solution that isn’t onerous to her.

    1. LK*

      >“One of the five boys did get in trouble — because it was too short.”

      >< bwahahha I enjoyed that. Good for them.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Saw that, too. The whole thing really aggravated me, just the perception of dress code inequality vs. the reality of historical (and current) male privilege in the work place.

  100. Rebecca*

    I’m not sure how to phrase it any other way, but I’m tired. I’ve been working full time for over 30 years, and have at least 13 more years to go, if my retirement age doesn’t get raised in the meantime. I get up every day, go to work, do a good job, but…I just feel so exhausted all the time and all I can think of while I’m at work is things I need to do when I get home, and there’s just never enough time.

    I fantasize about being able to take of 2 or 3 months just to recharge, but it’s just a pipe dream. There’s no way my employer would let me just take an extended vacation like that and I’d still have a job to come back to.

    I’m guessing FMLA is out, as there’s no real medical reason…sighs. Maybe I should start buying Powerball tickets and hoping for a miracle.

    1. misplacedmidwesterner*

      I don’t know your industry/company, but can you ask for temporary reassignment? Sometimes they need someone to cover in as a manager in another location in my industry for just a few months. It can be like a work vacation. You still work, but in a new environment. Or you could switch jobs.

      But then yes, you still have to work. So unless you can get one of those flex time jobs that lets you have alternate fridays off (seems so nice to me for my friends who have them), I’m not sure what to suggest.

    2. Oy vey*

      I feel you. This might be out of left field, but might you be a little depressed? From my own personal experience, I’ve found that sometimes I’ve been doing just fine when really I’ve been ignoring growing symptoms like fatigue, restless sleeping, overeating, not participating in hobbies or meeting with friends. It usually results in a week or more of serious overanalytical thinking and feeling inept and ridiculous.

      It might be helpful, if you can take a week off and do something that’s on your bucket list or work on a novel or finish that cableknit sweater you started last year. If you can tick off a personal accomplishment, it might help take the sting out of your professional ennui.

      1. Rebecca*

        I think I am a little depressed. My Dad died a bit over 2 months ago, and I’m an only child, and I’m helping my Mom navigate through everything now. She’s in good health but it’s still a challenge. I am going to take off next Friday and Monday, and with July 4th as a holiday (I’m in the USA) that will give me 5 days off in a row. I’m hoping that helps somewhat. I’d also like to completely take everything out of my kitchen and only keep the things I actually use. I have several empty garbage cans, so that seems doable, and with the holiday weekend I thought I could sit things out at the curb for free pickup and what doesn’t get picked up can go to the landfill on garbage day. Every time I think about starting that, my Mom needs something, or there’s something else that needs to be done. Ugh.

        1. Oy vey*

          Oh my, that’s a big life change and a difficult one too. I’m so sorry to hear it. I know you want to help your Mom with as much as possible, but if you can carve out some a nice chunk of time for yourself I think that would help give you a little respite from this rough patch. Can you let your mom know that you’re going to be MIA for a few days? (Maybe even tell her you have to go to a conference for work or some other thing that would give you a reason to not be quite so available.) I think it’s really important that you give yourself this time now before it becomes a bigger issue later.

        2. Swimmergurl*

          Getting rid of stuff can feel so great. Any chance you could work from home a few days of week? If you don’t have to commute or get ready for work, it might free up some time for your house projects.

        3. WellRed*

          Your dad died. On some level, you may be realizing work is just…work and that family etc is more important. Take some time to at least get a few things done you’d like to do. My dad died 16 months ago and I also have helped.mom navigate. It gets easier but I regret not going easier on myself.

    3. WG*

      Have you talked with your doctor to confirm there is really no medical reason? There are a variety of medical issues that can cause fatigue (thyroid issues being just one example). Your doctor may be able to identify if there is an underlying medical issue that could be treated to increase your energy level.

    4. overeducated*

      You’re going through a lot, and so much change just in the past few months, I think it sounds natural to feel that way. When getting through the day to day is so much effort, thinking “13 more years of this” will drive you crazy. I think keeping your blinkers on and looking at what’s right in front of you is part of self-preservation – you’ll reach the distance eventually, but it will look different than it does today in ways you don’t know, it won’t be another 13 years of things being just like they are right now. You just don’t know enough to picture it accurately yet and projecting forward from how things feel in the immediate aftermath of losing your dad can’t be comforting.

      Is there any way caring for your mom through this transition could qualify you for FMLA? I don’t know to what extent caretaking has to be “medical” in nature (or if your mom has any health issues that could be relevant), but I bet some commenter here would have more insight on that.

    5. curmudgeon*

      Did i write this while I was doing somethign else????
      Seriously, this is me too.
      I just don’t care anymore.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      This is actually pretty normal for people who are going through what you are going through.

      I ended up in the ER, the doc said I needed to rest for a solid month. Foolish me, I felt I couldn’t invest that time. But on the scary side, I went to sleep and woke up four days later. It was actual sleep, not a coma or anything like that. That was pretty scary. I couldn’t drive, I no longer trusted my judgement. Fortunately, I was staying with someone and she made me get up once every 24 hours and use the bathroom. Good thing. I also ate a piece of toast once a day. That was a huge effort to do that.

      I am not trying to scare you, I am trying to say your concern here is VERY REAL. Please set limits and make arrangements so you do not end up like I did. Explain to your mom that if big changes are not made within the next few days you will end up getting sick and not helping her at all.

  101. HR Gal*

    TL;DR: What do you do if your previous manager is a jerk and you don’t want to use him as a reference?

    Full story:
    I always had a good relationship with my former manager. And when I got an offer from my current employer that was contingent on him providing a reference for me, I told him about it and he said he was happy to provide a glowing reference (and he did). However, in the two weeks after that, he was very chilly towards me – I think he took my leaving the company personally.

    I always assumed that when I next began a job search, I would reach out to him with a warm message to mend the relationship we had and to remind him of all I accomplished while at the company. However, I recently learned from former coworkers that he sexually harassed many women within the company, and has become a widely-hated tyrant ever since I left.

    I have NO desire to be nice to him given this, but he’s also the only one in the company who can speak to my accomplishments while I was there. I’m not sure what he would say if he was contacted to give a reference for me. If I don’t want to use him as a reference, what do I tell prospective employers?

  102. misplacedmidwesterner*

    We have two people (whom I used to supervise, but I moved to another department) with this weird co-dependent relationship. Person A is in a higher paid/higher ranked position and person B is part-time, much less paid, and several steps down the ladder. Yet for the last decade, Person B has basically ruled Person A. B gets jealous if anyone gets too close or even talks to much to A. A will be perfectly fine with a new direction/job duty, but then B will talk to her and A will start complaining. They often commute together and in meetings B tries to talk for A which is really inappropriate given their roles. It’s always been just at the line that you can’t do too much about it because it hasn’t crossed a line yet but it was hovering on the edge of weird/not okay/dysfunctional. (Both A and B are married females if that helps). A announced her retirement (she’s been here 30+ years and has health issues.) B announced she was quitting, on the same day (not yet old enough for retirement officially). It’s such a weird set up.

    1. Sadsack*

      That does sound peculiar. It also seems things should get better there without that strange dynamic, especially from person B.

  103. Turkletina*

    I just received a formal job offer, which contains WAY fewer details than I was expecting. (This will be my first full-time job after grad school, so it’s possible that my expectations aren’t well-grounded.) The email just said “sign and return to HR”, and the letter itself basically only included the salary and a list of benefits (e.g., “medical, dental, vision, life, and disability insurance” with no information about the actual insurance plans). I’ve asked for documentation for the benefits, but I’m totally clueless as to how to negotiate. What’s more, I actually think the salary they’re offering is fair, and I can’t think of anything else I’d actually want to ask for. The whole thing is much more stressful than I was anticipating, and not because I’m having any thoughts of rejecting the offer!

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      The benefits aren’t normally negotiable. They have the plans they have. The only exception is PTO, but as a college hire, that doesn’t apply to you- normally it’s for experienced hires who are already getting more vacation and don’t want to go back to 2 weeks.

      Alison has been pretty clear that you don’t have to negotiate- sometimes (I’d seen even usually) companies offer you their fair and best offer. Asking for the benefit packet is smart, because you need to know what is covered, in case you need something that isn’t- or have a chronic illness that’s going to cost you more than you’d anticipated, so you need to consider that as part of how much you’re really earning- but if you’re otherwise happy with the offer, don’t stress about it- just accept it.

      And congratulations!

      1. Swimmergurl*

        It’s possible they’ve just switched providers or plans and don’t have any updated handouts readily available. Companies often rely on the insurance providers to provide handouts about their benefits, and it can be as bureaucratic as dealing with the Soviet Union.

        If there’s no other red flags, I’d accept the job offer but ask to schedule a meeting with HR to go over your benefits, especially since you’re a newbie and insurance is complicated. :)

    2. BRR*

      There are cases where you can think an offer is fair. Ignore the advice that says to always negotiate. Especially as you’re fresh from grad school, you don’t have as strong of a case for asking for more.

      What’s not in the offer that you were expecting?

  104. Erin not Aaron*

    Can anyone recommend a conservatively professional laptop bag for a graduation gift? I am in graphic arts, and my tastes run much too eclectic for the intended recipient.

    Brand or model name is sufficient if you don’t want to hit Alison with URLs to moderate. =)

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Hmmm. . .I appreciate the idea, but would it be possible to give cash or a gift card instead? I think what people need in a laptop bag can vary greatly, even if the style is on point.

      My husband bought me a nice leather satchel when I graduated college, and I never really used it (even after 17 years of working). It was fine style-wise – conservative, black – but the particular bag was a little too narrow, and had clasps that were hellish to open. It actually might be okay now that laptops have gotten so small, but I haven’t tried it. Now I usually use a SwissGear backpack, but when I have to be more formal I have a black nylon & faux leather tote style bag.

      1. Manders*

        Seconded. People can be really picky about their bags because when you’re carrying something for hours every day, you really want something that fits your needs just right. You don’t know if the person you’re buying a bag for has shoulder problems, needs an unusually sized strap, prefers to have a special pocket or strap for their keys, likes to carry paperback books in their bag, etc.

        A gift card to a store that sells professional clothing and accessories would be hugely helpful for a cash-strapped graduate.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Ha, well that might back you into a corner. Maybe buy it at a physical store where there are several options and easy returns in case what you pick isn’t the “just right” one?

          1. Parenthetically*

            Yeah, this is how I’d go. Gift receipt, someplace local and convenient, a very clear statement in the accompanying card that she should choose something else if this one doesn’t work for her. I’ve gotten bags, even handbags, for cryin’ out loud, as gifts, and without exception they languished in the back of a closet until I finally dragged them to the Salvation Army. I’m very, very particular about bags (ask me how long it took me to choose a diaper bag!), and I’d hate it if someone spent a lot of money on something that was objectively nice but not to my taste or preferences.

      3. Delta Delta*

        Seconding this. When I graduated law school my mom asked me what I wanted as a gift, so I asked for a briefcase. Now I have a really lovely maroon leather case that’s been collecting dust for 13 years because it just kind of doesn’t work for me. There’s nothing wrong with it, but it just sort of doesn’t work.

    4. CAA*

      I love my Timbuk2 bag. Mine is a bright blue color that makes me happy, but they have a lot of very professional styles in muted grays and blacks with leather trim. They last forever.

      Baggallini is having a sale right now and their stuff is excellent. Look at the Norway, Errand or Avenue totes.

      I also think corporette did an ask the readers column on this within the past couple of weeks. You might get some good ideas if you can find the comments on that one.

    5. tiny temping teapot*

      I am fan of some of the great looking bags on etsy. No specific store but if you browse there you and use laptop bag to search you should find some great ones.

  105. CMDRBNA*

    Hi everyone! I posted last week about being super anxious about going through a reference check for a job offer – well, good news, the new organization apparently just did a background check and called it a day. So I’m good to go! I start New Job in mid-July and I’m really excited about it.

    I also just finished reading “Weird in a World That’s Not: Career Advice for Misfits, Fuck-ups, and Failures” by Jennifer Romolini, and I really enjoyed it. I have really been struggling with some bad habits for the past few years, exacerbated by mental illness, and I’m really looking forward to a fresh start but also worried about falling back into those habits.

    So wish me luck! I’m making a true commitment to improving some things that I wouldn’t like in a coworker about myself.

    1. NaoNao*

      Wow, that’s so great! I’m pretty sure that my last few jobs didn’t call my references, just did the ol’ drug (sigh, for a desk job!) and background tests and called it good, too.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Thanks for mentioning that– it sounds like something I would benefit from reading. Added to my to-read list!

  106. Princess Carolyn*

    I’m about to start a second part-time job working from home. Should I buy some things to make life easier? I don’t have a home office, or even a desk or a kitchen table, so I thought maybe I need a laptop desk thingy and maybe a real mouse so I’m not using the trackpad for hours at a time. Any supplies recommendations?

    1. Pup Seal*

      I have found I focus better at a desk or a table, but that’s just me. If you do work on the couch or elsewhere, you should definitely get one of those laptop desk. Mine is falling apart, but it makes life easier and keeps my laptop from burning my lap. There are some that have a fan built into it to help cool down your laptop if you’re working long hours. I like to write a lot during my spare time, but I easily get distracted. I have an app on my laptop called GetFocused. It’s a timer that you can set certain times for tasks and tells you when to take a break.

      1. Princess Carolyn*

        I use Tomato Timer for the Pomodoro method and it’s a life-saver! I may buy a laptop desk for now and then look into putting a real desk in our spare room when I can.

        1. Pup Seal*

          Laptop lap desks are pretty nice. When I was in college the logic board of my laptop burned out. The tech people told me that whenever your laptop is on it needs to lay on a flat, hard surface, never on a pillow or blanket. He said pillows and blankets can block the fan and cause laptops to overheat.

    2. Red Reader*

      If you don’t have a lot of desk space, look at the Logitech M570 Trackball. It’s cordless, so you can put it wherever’s convenient. The ball is thumb-operated and the buttons are in the same place they would be on a regular mouse, so the physical-memory-retraining is minimal. (I always had a lot of trouble with a center-ball trackball because it required using your thumb to click the buttons, and that always just felt weird.) You don’t need a lot of space to move it around, because you don’t move it. After a month of using mine on my work machine, I decided I liked it so much that I bought a second one for my home machine too. They’re usually around $25-30 on Amazon, and I believe Target carries them in-store as well (and will price-match Amazon if necessary).

      If you’ll be using a laptop that doesn’t have a 10-key pad and you’ll be doing ANY amount of number entry, invest in either an external keyboard – Logitech, again, has a couple of inexpensive wireless ones that are decent quality, and in fact you can download software from their site to let multiple cordless devices talk to the same USB nubbin so you don’t have to use multiples. Mine is the K360, available on Amazon for ~$20 – or at least a USB trackpad. (I started with one of those and ended up scrapping it in favor of the keyboard, it just was more convenient to use.)

      Beyond that, it depends on what you’re going to be doing. If you write stuff down, have pens and notepads that are of a quality that you appreciate. Multiple jobs means time management, do you need a calendar or whiteboard to track projects? Do you need a printer? File cabinet to lock up protected information? A headset for phone calls/teleconferences? The ability to use your TV as a second monitor (could be as easy as a super long HDMI cable, under $10 on Amazon, or I think there’s ways you can do that via a Chromecast or Roku stick too)?

      I work remotely as a manager of a coding team, and almost all my work can be done with nothing but my computer and the mouse/keyboard mentioned above, plus a USB headset. All our work materials are online, including the majority of our references, and for HIPAA reasons, we’re not allowed to print or write down anything patient-specific and keep it around anyway. (As a result, I also have a shredder in my home office, just in case.)

      Oh – we’re required by our WFH policy to have a fire extinguisher in the room where we work. I’ve never needed it, knock wood, but I figure it’s never a bad thing to have around anyway.

      1. Princess Carolyn*

        Thanks for your thoughtful reply! I’ll look into the mouse for sure and maybe even the external keyboard. The laptop I’m using is a Macbook Air.

        The job itself is copy editing for an online news outlet, so some kind of pen and paper might help. No long-term projects, just a long line of stories to edit (so a list will work rather than a calendar). Might consider a headset too. Ooh and I like the idea of turning my TV into a second monitor, though my husband might not be crazy about that since we only have one TV.

        1. Red Reader*

          As a second-monitor alternative, if you already have an iPad, there’s a software package called duet display (and another called air display) that lets you use the iPad as a second monitor on a MacBook. I used to use mine on my old MacBook Air for school stuff. I used Air Display, but if you google “iPad second monitor for MacBook” there’s articles and reviews of both of those as well as other options. Might be options for other tablets as well.

          You might not need the second monitor or keyboard/keypad though, it sounds like — I have two 27″ monitors on my work computer, because I have several software windows that I look at regularly, plus when I do training, I can only share one monitor on webex and having that one be big enough to view everything at once is way less confusing for the trainees than when I have to drag windows in and out or shrink them down and embiggen them.

    3. Artemesia*

      When we retired and moved into a tiny sublet in a city move — before making a final purchase, I bought my husband and inexpensive computer desk so we could make him a writing space in the bedroom by a view window. It was cheap and gave him a designated space which helps when you try to work from home. Now that we are in another space and his large desk is out of storage, I use the computer desk in the guest room for my desk top. It is easy to acquire inexpensive office things like this that help you carve out a professional space.

  107. SoMad*

    My husband recently lost his job. He had a 4 hour planning meeting for the next quarter, and a scheduled annual performance review right after it. It turned out that performance review was actually a separation meeting. When he asked why he was being terminated his boss said “Fit and Performance” when he asked for specifics, his supervisor refused to give them. She said “You can’t change the decision. It’s already been made.” He articulated that he understood that, but was trying to understand the decision. She told him to talk to HR, who also said “Performance and Fit” and declined to elaborate. His last performance review was positive, and resulted in a raise and bonus. He’d had made tangible and substantial progression the mission of the company. Now, I know he’s not perfect. But the lack of coaching, feedback, performance plan, tangible reason for termination, lack of severance, and the way they treated him as he was leaving–including having his supervisor tap her watch and snap at him that he needed to hurry up as he was removing company technology from his bag so he didn’t leave with their property infuriates me. He was part of a small team whose management plans changed after he was hired, and his boss started several months after him. From the beginning she excluded him from relevant meetings and conversations–told him not to attend happy hours with colleagues on business trips, and was generally nasty. I’m glad that he doesn’t have to deal with her every day anymore, and we’re fortunate enough to have savings to make this painful rather than tragic, but I’m just steaming mad about the whole situation.

    1. Mazzy*

      I severance when getting rid of a “bad fit” type is really bad in my book. Wow. Not even two or four weeks? And not having one example of performance?

      1. SoMad*

        Nothing! I was upset about it. He’s had a number of colleagues contact him and tell him that they thought it was terribly unfair. Which is small consolation. His boss’s boss (who he’d worked for before bosslady started) said “i’m sorry it had to turn out this way”

    2. Swimmergurl*

      This really sucks. I don’t know about your state’s laws, but “fit and performance” don’t make someone ineligible for unemployment benefits where I live.

      It sounds like your husband was well-regarded and respected at his organization, judging by the reactions of other coworkers. Maybe some of them will be able to help him find another position.

  108. In Hell With The Interns*

    (Asking for collective advice here instead of writing to Alison because, well, it feels like a better place to do it.)

    I’m surrounded by four interns who won’t shut up; I sit in a cube block with them, and I’m the only full-time employee who has this many interns right next to him — or even a cubicle with the back open to an aisle, instead of to a window. None of these interns work in my department; two of them are in a closely-related one, and two work in a completely separate department. They are constantly talking — politics, the news, weird things that their summer programs are asking them to do, wacky work assignments, on and on.

    This summer’s bunch is particularly chatty, but every few months, I’m barraged with a host of trainings taking place mere feet from me — which, regardless of how talkative the interns are normally, is often distracting and annoying. We have a few empty closed-door offices where trainings could take place, plus several meeting rooms that are not always booked. We also have an internal chat program that the interns could easily use to discuss anything they want, and certainly anything that’s appropriate for talk in an open office.

    Any tips on how to ask these interns — who, of course, are technically junior to me but who most definitely do not report to me — to, you know, not talk this much? I wouldn’t mind if they had the occasional work conversation, but the political talk, news updates announced from over the cube dividers (my phone buzzes — I don’t need an intern to tell me, too!), talk about college classes, mansplaining (the two departments each have a male intern and female intern — I’ll let you guess which ones dominate their conversations), and so on are driving me bonkers. Is this something people here would suggest bringing up to the interns’ various supervisors (one of whom is out of the country right now anyway), or should I just ask them directly? If directly, bring them into a meeting room or just ask over the cube dividers? Or even just e-mail/chat them as a group?

    As a larger question, would folks here normally bring up things like excessive, unnecessary trainings conducted in an open office with other departments, or just seethe? I’m early in my career and trying to get a sense of how these things are normally handled. Thank you in advance to the wonderful comment section!

    (Headphones are not really an option because I startle easily and my cube is open in the back. I’ve ruined multiple keyboards already spilling water/coffee when someone approaches while I have headphones in, so I’ve opted not to use them going forward.)

    1. KatieKate*

      Is there anyone in charge of all of the interns you can speak to about moving the trainings? Otherwise, I think you absolutely have a right to discuss office norms with them. You outrank them and have more experience, so you call tell them about shared space and how they need to be respectful and do their work.

      1. In Hell With The Interns*

        No one below our HR director supervises across department lines. (Yes, I know, talk about silos…) Any conversation about training locations would have to take place with multiple departments, probably multiple times.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      “Hey y’all, can you please keep it down? It’s been getting pretty loud over there, and I need to be able to focus. Thanks.”

      Repeat as needed. If you have to repeat more than a few times, then you escalate to:

      “Hey, I really need y’all to keep it down over there on a regular basis. The noise is disruptive. Most people here use IM or a private conference room for conversations that are going to be long or distracting to others.”

      1. In Hell With The Interns*

        Oh, I wish. Cubicle assignments are a major Office Politics issue here. Departments that have downsized have death grips on cubicles they do not need anymore (some of them use cubes in prime spots next to windows to store decades-old paper records), and my role, which was created for me, does not have a formally assigned cube, so I’m stuck in an “unassigned” one; my current block is the only bunch of “unassigned” cubes in the office. I point out that I’m basically in an intern cube, and I’m told, “Oh, the interns are *supposed* to be in study carrels, not cubes, but not all the cubes are taken, so we’re giving them this extra privilege.” Some people seem less than suited to critical thinking about these things… it’s a good thing I like my boss and the actual work!

    4. CAA*

      Can you pick up your stuff and go into one of the closed door rooms when the trainings are taking place? If not, then it’s reasonable to ask your manager if it would be possible to get the other departments to do training in a conference room or training room. There may be reasons why you just have to put up with the training noise (I agree with Alison about shutting down the every-day noise), but you will never know unless you ask.

  109. Mary (in PA)*

    Good news: I have an in-person interview next week for a job for which I am pretty much the only candidate! Bad news: I don’t know exactly where or when it will be. But I’m sure I will find out in the intervening time.

    This job is probably going to be a part-time admin-style position, working with logistics and scheduling for a busy journal director. A friend of mine from grad school (ten years ago, at this point) works as the journal’s managing editor. She would definitely outrank me at this point, but I’m not concerned about that – our careers have taken different paths, even though we look similar on paper. At the same time, I’ve alluded in previous posts to my brain injury and resultant seizure disorder, and I’ve been out of the formal work world for a while. This position seems absolutely perfect for what I need right now: part-time, somewhat low level, and something that will allow me to get back to “working” in the traditional sense. Plus I will get to make some extra money, which is always nice, and it will leave me time for my embroidery volunteering, which is even better (since I got appointed chair of the 2019 spring event).

    But my potential boss is worried that I will be bored with the job duties. I’ve reassured her several times about how I really do want to do this kind of work, and I’ve looked through the archives here for tips, but is there anything else I can do to let her know that yes, I really do want a low-level flunky admin job for the foreseeable future, and that I will not be looking to jump into project management or anything like that? She does already know about my health issues and my volunteer work. Any additional insights you can provide would be most welcome.

    1. tiny temping teapot*

      Maybe just emphasize how excited you are about the job duties? You like organizing, you like dealing with logjams, etc. I’ve gotten questions before about why I want to stick with admin and I’ve found that helps. Granted, I actually do like organizing files and the like, so it’s an easy sell.

  110. KatieKate*

    We have a department planning meeting next week to get ready for the upcoming year. My managers (women) have asked us all to bring food for the all-day meeting. The department is covering breakfast, but lunch is potluck. The team is all women, except for one.

    Am I crazy in thinking that if the team was made of men we would never be asked to do something like this? We are a nonprofit, but this is a once a year planning meeting. How do we not have food for that budgeted? There’s only ten of us!

    I can’t and hate cooking, so I gave a coworker cash to cover whatever she is making, but the whole thing is rubbing me the wrong way.

    1. AnotherAlison*

      This sounds like a dumb idea to me. Your managers should want the team focused on bringing ideas and knowledge to the meeting, not food. If they can’t cover the cost of a few pizzas, it sounds like y’all might need to spend more than 8 hrs on annual business planning.

      FWIW, my department only has 3 women out of 40 people – 1 PM (me), 1 senior tech person, and 1 admin asst., and we do department potlucks a few times per year. The men cook and bring food. . .we have a few foodie men who initiate this type of thing, actually. To me, the problem with your thing is that it is a business meeting, where ours is for team building or celebrations.

    2. CAA*

      I think this is kind of silly and they should buy you lunch (unless you’re a gov’t employee and they can’t), but I don’t think it’s sexist. I’ve been in plenty of male dominated teams that had occasional potlucks.

      1. Swimmergurl*

        If you don’t like cooking, I think it’s fair to give cash or offer to pick up a vegetable tray at the grocery store. You could also offer to bring plates, utensils, napkins, or even a beverage.

    3. Girasol*

      Not that you should have to pay for conference meals – I agree – but if you’re stuck, supermarket delis have all sorts of options that work and people are used to seeing them.

  111. Intrepid*

    Does anyone have suggestions for getting their mental balance back after leaving a toxic boss?

    The specifics are that I just switched departments in the same company. I reported to a micromanager for a few months; when she left, I reported to two toxic bosses who maintained both that my work was perfect and that they were going to lay me off… soon. They floated a bunch of dates; I had random moments of racing heartbeat for a couple months and stopped eating for a week. Then a spot opened up for me on a team I really wanted to join, and I fled.

    I now report to a good human– but he’s remote, both in that he works in a different office and that he’s sometimes brusque. He’s good people, but every short email I get sends my mind into “maybe he’s dashing it off between meetings. Or he’s mad about that mistake I made last week. Or I’m about to be fired. Or my old bosses lied to him about me and he believes them and I’m about to be fired. Or…”

    I hope to have a couple big-picture discussions about how he prefers work to get done, but he’s honestly busy enough that those opportunities are few and far between. I’ll feel better as time passes and I establish myself, I know, but does anyone have tips to manage the fear-bouts in the meantime?

    1. Hammer Time*

      Is there anyway you could take a quick vacation? I found after leaving a really toxic workplace, I had major anxiety and despondency. There was no way I could move straight into my new job without some time to reset. I didn’t want to carry all my old baggage to my new place – it wasn’t fair to my new boss or me :) I was lucky to take two weeks off before starting my new job, but I know a lot of people don’t have the ability to do that. The other thing that was a tremendous help was therapy. Talking to someone about my toxic environment and the emotions that came with it really helped unburden my load.

  112. Princess Buttercup*

    Has anyone ever gone to grad school after working for a year or so, instead of going right after finishing their undergraduate degree?
    How did you do it?

    1. Jessesgirl72*

      My husband went to grad school after working for several years.

      His company had a tuition assistance program, and the university he chose catered to working grad students, where classes were early morning, evenings, or Saturdays. He took 2 classes a semester – including a couple summers-and got his Masters in Computer Science in 3 years.

      1. Jessesgirl72*

        Oh, and one of my best friends is getting her MBA after even more time had passed since we got our undergrad degrees.

        The university where she got her undergrad degree offers an online MBA course. She does the usual thing of remoting in to lectures and submitting everyone electronically- but is a real accredited University, and not an “online” one.

    2. Amy Cakes*

      Most MBA programs actually require several years of work experience before they will accept you into the degree program. It’s incredibly common in that type of field.

      That said, getting out of the school mindset and then back into it is SO HARD. Power straight through if at all feasible!

      1. Manders*

        Hah, we gave opposite advice, but I do agree with you that getting back into the school mindset is hard once you’re out. For me, that ended up being a good thing–I liked working more than I thought I would, and I didn’t want to give up my structured days and steady paycheck to go back for a degree I was feeling kind of meh about.

        If I’d powered straight through I could have made it through an advanced degree, but I wouldn’t have had the time to stop and ask myself if I even wanted it.

    3. Manders*

      My husband did! He went from undergrad to a master’s program, then worked for a year, then went into a PhD program (which he actually didn’t end up finishing for complicated reasons, he’s working full time now). His specialty was East Asian history, so during his year off he worked as a translator for a language he already knew well.

      Something he noticed a lot in the department was that the highest performers were people who had a year or more of experience in an office job with a regular schedule. The people who had always been students had lousy sleep schedules, struggled with prioritizing projects, and tended to think of their advisors as always correct no matter how weird their advice was. The people who had some work experience knew how to balance their work with the rest of their lives. They were also able to walk away from toxic situations because they hadn’t built their entire identity around academia and they understood what normal professional behavior should look like.

      1. overeducated*

        This is my experience too. I feel like I, and other friends who worked after undergrad, were generally better at managing our time, keeping to sane sleep schedules, and setting aside time on evenings and weekends than our classmates straight out of college who had never had a regular work routine.

        1. overeducated*

          PS I would not say it related to differences in performance though. That was totally unrelated and based on a lot of other factors (for research, choice of topic and advisor were way more important, and for teaching, personality and gender mattered).

          1. Manders*

            Oh yeah, performance was not quite the right word there. My husband performed well in the sense that he was always on top of his work and teaching schedule and he got excellent reviews as a TA. But he chose to study a subject that a lot of people in his field didn’t want to touch (treatment of civilians in an occupied area/war crimes from a country that wants to hush up that era of its history) and he wasn’t good at playing departmental politics.

            His university also kind of dissolved into chaos and couldn’t come up with the funds it had promised grad students. That was an extreme case, most grad students will never have to deal with that, but he was very lucky to have an emergency fund stashed away.

            1. overeducated*

              Yup, I went into a sub-specialty that’s not “hot” in my discipline right now, and I would probably be considered one of the worse students in my year because I didn’t win any major national grants. The problem was that I was most of the way through grad school before I learned that external grant dollars are not just to help you get done the research (I managed to cobble together enough small grants and keep costs down to do that efficiently), they are actually a metric for ranking your success for future employment! Had I realized that, I might have slowed down and spent more time applying and reapplying for grants instead of just trying to finish and publish quickly with the funding I had. That’s where a good advisor, who actually advises you on these things instead of leaving you alone to figure it out and just signing off on your stuff, matters.

              I was VERY efficient, though. Now that I’m a couple years out and still haven’t managed to land in a career that looks long-term, I’m not sure what the hurry was….

    4. Simone R*

      I did! I’m in lab science so it was pretty easy-I worked in a lab for 2 years while I made the decision on whether I wanted to go to graduate school or not. In my PhD program now >75% of us worked between 1-5 years before starting with the most common being 2 years.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I went to grad school 14 years ago (holy crap), three years after undergrad. I took out loans, mostly. My program was essentially a 15-month MA. I’m still paying off those loans, but I’m on a very generously timed payment plan with decently low payments.

      The hardest part was studying, to be honest. I was always great at school, and I did very well in grad school, but I’d gotten used to “leave at 5pm and you’re done”. It was tough for me to adjust to, “Classes are over at 3pm but you still have work to do.”

    6. JJJJShabado*

      I went back after about a year while working full-time. My job was flexible enough to let me go during the day (my program was not designed for people working full-time). I was able to do it, but in hindsight, I wish that I had stopped after the first year. The first two semesters I took 2 classes a semester, but then 1 a semester because that was all I could handle. I completed it and view the Masters’ as my insurance policy (it’s in Statistics, I’m in data programming, do almost no Stat work at my job). It’s going to be an effort so I would advise doing it if you have a definite desire to do it and can accommodate potential extra workload.

    7. Lemon Zinger*

      Yes, I highly recommend it. I needed that year to figure out what I wanted to get into, ensure that the field was a good fit for me, etc.

      I work at a university and am taking advantage of near-free tuition. Life is good!

      1. hermit crab*

        Yeah, this is a big deal (and so is the life skills/experience stuff mentioned above). I really think people should NOT to go straight from undergrad to grad school, unless they have some special/compelling reason to do so.

        This is obviously anecdata, but I know way too many people who went straight through and regretted it, either because they hadn’t given enough thought to why they were getting the degree in the first place or because they felt they weren’t able to make the most of their experience. I worked for about 5 years before I went back, and my program was full of students fresh out of undergrad who didn’t know what they wanted to get out of the program and/or couldn’t handle all the unstructured time. I was worried that I had forgotten how to study and all but it was no big deal — frankly, a lot of it was easier than the work I’d been doing at my job. On the other hand, I think a lot of the students who were still in “undergrad mode” spent most of their time focusing on (or stressing out about) individual classes/assignments rather than any big-picture goals for their time in school (learning specific types of things, making connections in the field, etc.).

    8. Natasha*

      I just finished a Master’s a couple weeks ago. I had finished undergrad about 8 years before I started, and can certainly say I took school more seriously than when I had attempted graduate school right after undergrad. I felt like I was more mature, but some of my classmates did not take it as seriously so team projects were a nightmare for me. I also commuted into the East part of Chicago for class, which was miserable for evening classes. The upside- I loved the subject and getting a deeper view, the sports and other student events (when I had time to go), and meeting some other students and professors who were absolutely brilliant and loved the subject too. My boyfriend would help by cooking dinner on nights I was totally overwhelmed, but in the end the 2 years flew by in a blink.

  113. The Expendable Redshirt*

    Rank my Organisation on Upward Gift Giving!
    The CEO of my small-nonprofit organisation recently celebrated his 65th birthday, and I’d like to know what YOU think of how it was handled. A gift was given to Big Boss that amounted to about $125. The company culture is rather informal, with a tenancy towards celebrating major life events. In the past, the company has held low key celebrations for major birthdays, births, and weddings. Staff birthdays are usually noted by a small gift of nice pens. When we learned that Beloved Big Boss was celebrating his 65th birthday, one employee took action. They sent out a company wide email proposing that we get Big Boss a gift. The email invited people to chip in $5-$10 (or whatever was comfortable) for this gift. The people donating would remain anonymous, and Big Boss would have gotten the gift even if fundraising had failed. There is history of tracking down people who don’t contribute. How do you see this upward gift giving situation?

    1. CAA*

      Not great but just not a hill to die on. It was $125 and he’s beloved and nobody was forced to give in this case and other employees get gifts occasionally too.

      1. The Expendable Redshirt*

        It was an interesting situation.

        People in the company donated more than the estimated $125. The extra money was cycled into the company wide potluck. For myself, I chose to chip in $5.00. Big Boss is a great boss person.

  114. Overthinky Admin*

    Fellow hourly non-exempt workers: how to you report your time when your lunch break runs long because the bosses were treating the office?

    I work at a very “fun” place where we often have parties during lunch or at the end of the work day, or go out to a restaurant for lunch. For events at the office, I feel solid about recording my hours to fit what I would have worked normally, since those things are kind of nebulous and I could perform my job duties* as I munch pizza or whatever. When my lunch runs long because I went out informally with coworkers**, I record the actual amount of time I was gone even if it means my hours are short that day, because that was on me for going out. But the other day management spontaneously took everyone out to a restaurant for lunch, and it was outright a work event (the bill is categorized as promotion, pictures are going on the business social media page), and I don’t know how to record it. I don’t think it’s fair to lose*** an hour of pay because my boss was bored? Sure it was nice to get a free lunch, but I didn’t ask for that, you know? But it seems dishonest – not to mention silly – to claim I was back at work by 1pm when actually I was at the restaurant until 2 (as my boss knows full well). I’m probably splitting hairs and overthinking this (so I’d rather not talk to my boss) – does anyone have any advice?

    * admin assistant
    ** from a different department, work different hours, not sure what they do for their hours but it probably doesn’t apply to me
    *** I can’t make it up by putting in extra hours the rest of the week because state law requires employers to classify any time over 8 hours as overtime, and I don’t have enough work to do to justify that.

    1. LQ*

      I absolutely consider it work time. On those days I don’t take my half hour lunch break, I figure that is a part of that time, but I totally consider it work and would never not put it on my clock. Part of your job duties are to do that. This for me falls clearly into the you wouldn’t do it if you didn’t have that job column.

    2. Susan*

      You really just need to ask your boss. Maybe just say, “Since this lunch was a work event, is it ok if I code my time from 1 to 2 pm as work?”

      I do completely agree that it would not be fair for you to lose an hour of pay for a long lunch that was a work event and not your choice, so if your boss is at all reasonable, she should be fine with allowing you to code the excess lunch time as work.

    3. Nan*

      I just punch my people back in on time. If we were to go out for 2 hours, and they only get a half hour lunch, I’d correct their lunch time to a half hour.

      1. Tom*

        This is what we do too. When the hourly people are at meetings, training, work events, etc where they might take longer lunches they still have their unpaid half hour and then everything else is paid. They’re hourly because that’s how their job normally works and we’re not going to adjust everything for one-off scenarios. My concern is more that they did get an actual break at some point, because sometimes “lunches” with salaried people are still work.

        1. Natalie*

          It’s not clear to me if this is the case, but if that unpaid half hour can only be unpaid if they are truly relieved from work. If they are eating lunch during a meeting or training, it’s work time.

    4. Kerr*

      Consider it work time. I ran into the same issue, and was told to just mark my usual hour lunch, and clock the excess as work time. My reasoning is that it’s work-related, the timeline is dictated by the higher-ups (you can’t just leave!), and it’s supposed to be a treat and losing paid time is no treat.

  115. Applesauced*

    (I can move this to the weekend thread if it’s not work related enough)

    I got married last week – we did a short ceremony in a park, followed by brunch at our of our favorite restaurants. Guys, this place was FANTASTIC. Before the wedding, they were worked with me to arrange a menu, take care of special diets, create custom cocktails for each of us (the “Bride” and “Groom” but our names), helped figure out seating and set up…. just great.
    During they reception they we’re just as great – super attentive staff, made sure the right people got the right special dishes, made extra special dishes for the kids who wouldn’t eat anything except fries and maraschino cherries, awesome bartender who ended up comping us a bunch of drinks, food was AMAZING….

    So they did a fantastic job, and I’d like to get them some kind of thank you, but….
    1) is it weird to thank someone for doing their job? We paid them for a service, and they did that service, so is this too much? I feel like they went above and beyond and want to recognize that.
    2) what kind of gift should we send? The chef and owner are a friend-of-a-friend, so we could send a thank you (note and some kind of food or wine) just to them at home, but the staff was great too… it seems weird to send food to a restaurant, but I was thinking a gift basket of snacks or cookies so it can be shared easily…. maybe a floral arrangement?

    1. Natalie*

      I don’t think you need to send a gift, but it’s totally normal to write nice thank you emails to event vendors and review them well in the various places one does that. I’m assuming you tipped the staff, but if you didn’t I would definitely rectify that.

      1. MechanicalPencil*

        I think a gushing review (or reviews) on whatever sites would be appropriate for your area (Yelp/Google Reviews/ anything wedding-y) would be tremendously helpful in additional to a thoughtful note to the staff. And definitely a tip if you haven’t already. Glad your wedding went well. Always happy to hear about good experiences.

    2. LQ*

      I think reviews and recommendations are a really powerful thank you (assuming tipping/gratuity was covered). I don’t think it’s weird to say thank you, sending food or flowers seems a little weird. But a really honest thank you and a review will go a long way. (And a thank you with comments they can put on their website/brochures/etc is always good.) I would definitely praise the staff to the owner especially.

    3. Parenthetically*

      Man, some of that stuff is above and beyond in the sweetest possible way. A gushing letter of thanks, perhaps with a note attached that you’d like to make sure Jane, Fergus, and that excellent waiter whose name you didn’t catch all have a chance to read it, and then some glowing reviews are probably all you’d need to do, but I think a nice bouquet wouldn’t be over the top.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        And tell them you are fine with them using your thank you note for publicity purposes.

    1. Throwaway*

      I moved from freelancing in an arts field to full-time corporate work recently. I literally went through a local magazine, found every ad for people with the job I wanted, and emailed explaining why I wanted to make the jump, and if I could ever assist/shadow/get coffee, please let me know. I actually got 4-5 contacts from that, and finally got a few interviews in the field. I was able to say “I know I’ve never done this, but I have almost 10 yrs of experience doing XYZ with similar skills, and I’ve assisted these people, and I think I can do it.” And I got it!

    2. JustaCPA*

      Short version – I spent 10 years in one field, started my own business in another field and did that for 20 years then got my certification and went back to first field as an officer in a company

      Long version – I started out in finance working for a Fortune 5 company, got married and moved to my husband’s city (4 hours away) and got another job in finance working for a well known international company. I worked there until they laid me off. I had had a small side hustle since being in new city so went all in with that (art industry) Had a child and really enjoyed the flexibility of being my own boss and being there for the kid. Post the Great recession, business tanked and we struggled with me making as much as 50% less a year than I had been. Got some help from my family, went back to school, took a review course and passed the CPA in one year while still working at my business and running the household. Tried to get a job for over a year in a public firm but I was just too much of an off the wall candidate for them. Over xmas 2016, a chance encounter led to being contacted via linkedin for a position as the financial officer for a small tech company. After a couple of years reading ATM I was ready to negotiate which I did and was able to get a bump in salary which paid for the schooling/review course I had done. I’m now working for a great company, in a prominent role, with a steady (!) paycheck and amazing benefits for a really cool boss.

      Caveat – I am a planner by nature and dont just JUMP. I did plan quite a bit every move.

  117. Robert*

    Hi everyone! Here is my question.

    I’ve been catching up with coworkers from old jobs. One guy I added on Facebook told me that my boss said I was fired. That’s a complete lie, though. I didn’t get along with that boss, but I left by resigning after I got a new job.

    I called up HR about this, and I got a really weird defensive reply. It was basically, “your old boss is a manager in good standing, and he would not lie about this and violate our reference policy, so there was no reason to call us about this.”

    I have other people from this job who I can use as references but the whole conversation was so weird that I want to get a lawyer involved so I’m protected. Would this be an overly aggressive move?

    1. JustaCPA*

      I think you need to find out exactly what your former boss is saying. While I dont typically condone lying, having a friend call asking for a reference may not be a bad start. Then if he is in fact saying you were fired when you were not, go from there.

    2. CAA*

      Is the former boss likely to have any influence on your career going forward? Can you get by without using him as a reference? If you can, I’d just let this go. You certainly won’t improve the reference by getting a lawyer to contact him, and HR isn’t responsible for what he says anyway. If anyone calls HR, they should give the correct info about your hire dates and whether you’re eligible for rehire.

      Also consider that your Facebook friend may have misheard or misunderstood the former boss’ comment, or he may have been talking about some other Robert.

      1. Robert*

        My employment history is pretty short and this was a recent job, so I have to give a reference from this company. I can’t give my boss because I went to HR about him because he made lots of racial jokes about my race, I asked him to stop, and then he started giving me bogus write ups to make a paper trail for firing me. If he’s telling other people I was fired, that reduces the pool of people I can ask there.

        I could try and give HR as a reference but that may come off as defensive. Also a little worried about giving them as a reference after my conversation with them. They basically said “your boss wouldn’t do this, now leave us alone.” If HR is bound to be accurate, then wouldn’t it make sense to get a lawyer to remind them of that?

  118. Natalie*

    I’m in my first job after grad school (research in the life sciences). I would like to start looking for a new position this year (after 2+ years at the same company). I’m at a total loss as to who to use for references though – I changed fields and now not only work in an office non-lab environment, but have specialized skills in my new field. I could use my grad school advisor as a reference, but he wouldn’t be able to comment at all on how I work in a professional environment or my current expertise in this job. I can’t use any managers at my current job, because they would know I was interviewing elsewhere. I was in grad school for 6 years, so there are really no other current references to use. I think it would sound quite shady to an interviewer for me to say I don’t have references, or use an irrelevant reference – but I don’t want to be trapped in this job until I’m laid off! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice on how to handle the reference checks? Thanks!

    1. Jennifer Walters*

      When I was applying for my second job out of law school and didn’t want my bosses to know I was leaving, I asked a trusted senior coworker to be my reference while I was looking. Is that possible for you? I also used my law school advisor and, because they knew I had only one job since law school, that wasn’t a problem.

  119. Ash (the other one)*

    I’m not exactly sure how to ask this, but I’ll try…

    So in my recent one-on-one with my manager I was trying to articulate a bit of malaise I have right now. I think the main issue is that I’m not sure what’s “next” for me even though I am content where I am. So here’s the background — I am 32 and the youngest Teapot Director at my organization. On our career ladder, there is “Senior Teapot Director” above me and then you get to the executive staff (one vice president, and one president). I was quickly moved to my position as a director when I started about 3 years ago and in that time have gone up about $30K in salary. I’m definitely not complaining. I am happy with my position and my salary…

    BUT… I’m not sure what I’m working towards right now. I’m a goal oriented person and while I have goals on my projects and other projects I want to bring in, that’s sort of different than having a goal for my profession. When I was talking to my manager she asked if it was the title (no) or the salary (I mean, I can’t complain that I’ve gone up $30K since being here), but I just don’t know if I should settle in to staying in this exact same role for the next 30 years or what.

    So my question to all of you is, how do I figure this out?

    1. CAA*

      It’s ok to stay on the plateau you’re on for a while and figure out where you’d like to go next. Can you make your current career goal be to just enjoy your achievements for a year without thinking about next steps? Then revisit this and figure out what your options are. At that point, you can make a list of the pros and cons of going upwards in your current company, upwards somewhere else, sideways into some related path, or into freelancing/consulting. It does get harder to keep climbing the ladder as it gets narrower the higher you go.

    2. Natasha*

      I’m the same age and feeling malaise after finishing a big goal, too. The one solution I can think of is starting a new goal. I’m not sure it has to be work related to have an overall effect on your mood- I think mine will be training for a long bike race.

  120. Hedgehog*

    A couple of months ago, my office (of only 10 people) conducted what was supposed to be an anonymous survey, to get a pulse on current morale, office culture, and assess strengths and needs. I was VERY candid in my response, especially in regards to feeling burnt out and that the organization expected more and more from direct staff without providing the corresponding support. Fast forward to a few days ago (from multiple people, including someone in HR) that one of my coworkers is being blamed for my survey responses and has been directly quoted lines from my survey by management. What’s worse, from the sounds of it they’re taking action against her (I don’t think a formal PIP, but definitely coaching and keeping a close eye on her). This coworker is great, but there’s no doubt that she DOES work way too much and is also probably burnt out, so I’d like to think that this is not solely based on my survey.

    I’m struggling. I’m so angry that they tried to identify the responses from an anonymous survey, did so incorrectly, and now one of my coworkers is taking the fall for things I said. I feel like I should say something to my manager to correct the record and maybe get them to ease off my coworker, but at the same time don’t want to out myself. Anyone have any advice on what my next step should be?

    1. Oy vey*

      You want to be a good person, particularly as someone is being blamed for something that you said (that no one should be blamed for period). But, honestly, outing yourself will not make this situation better. There’s no proof that your coworker wrote these statements (obviously, since she didn’t write them). I think your employers are either on a witchhunt to weed out people or they’re on a witchhunt to weed out your coworker. Neither of which you can fix.

      If you have a good, close relationship you can mention it to your coworker, with the understanding that (s)he could very likely tell management and you’ll be facing the same situation (if not now, then likely in the near future). Either way, the behavior of your company is pretty blatant and superficial and if you are feeling burnt out and frustrated enough to respond in kind on a company survey, it may be time to look elsewhere.

    3. Morning Glory*

      Could you point out to someone that this is a move basically guaranteed to harm morale around the office and guarantees that people won’t respond honestly to these in the future?

      It seems counter productive to the idea behind the survey – even people happy in their jobs would be alarmed that a person is being disciplined for what was supposed to be an anonymous survey.

    4. Ramona Flowers*

      Coaching sounds like it’s needed here – is it really taking the fall if they’re trying to get her to stop overworking which she actually does do?

    5. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Yikes. Yikes!!

      At OldJob, I was part of a team tasked with putting together departmental surveys similar to what you’re talking about. When we presented them to the director, he immediately asked if we could find a way to figure out who had written some particularly blunt critiques. His stated reason was that he wanted to get additional detail and find out what we could be doing better…. but we pointed out to him that no matter how pure his intentions were, it would look incredibly bad to be playing detective on the anonymous surveys and pulling some people into private meetings based around the sleuthing. One of the super candid surveys he wanted to know about was mine.

      You absolutely, 100% do not need to out yourself here, but it’s still okay to go to your manager and say that you feel really demoralized seeing that someone is getting blowback from the contents of an anonymous survey. You don’t have to be the one whose comments are involved to take a morale hit from that!

  121. Throwaway*

    I have an office job at a largeish company after many years of freelance/in the field work. As a freelancer, I have always been a quick and efficient worker. It’s a good trait (I think!), but I find most days in my office I can get the majority of my work done by 2p, if I just attack one task after the other. So what do I do with those extra hours? When I started, I used the time to research clients, read up on my new company, read the news, etc. But now I feel terrible and like I should be doing more. I’ve asked my boss a couple times if there’s anything else I can take on, and she says thanks but there’s nothing. I could work until 5p if I took breaks in between, but that seems just as bad. What can I do when I have downtime at work that doesn’t look like I’m wasting time?

    1. Her Grace*

      You said you used to spend the time researching the company and its clients. Perhaps it’s time to expand the field. What about researching the industry as a whole, keeping current on overall industry trends, what competitors are doing, keeping current with industry-related blogs, etc.?

  122. Death Rides a Pale Volvo*

    Question about email redirects after leaving a job:

    Last job, I had set an away message of “Death Rides a Pale Volvo has left the Director of Communications position at [College]. Please contact her colleague, [name].” Since I was an army of one, the colleague was the assistant to the president.

    President says, “Oh no, that message sounds as if you’ve been fired. Why not say this?” [Longer message saying I’m off to Oregon, etc.] Great!

    So I still check in on my old work email b/c some contacts are still confused. It doesn’t help that after I left, they sent out a (really badly written and inept) press release that went out under my name, and press contacts got confused. So I check in yesterday and the away message has been changed to: “Death Rides a Pale Volvo no longer works at [College]. Please contact [Chief Enrollment Officer].”

    So we’re BACK to it sounding as if I was fired, AND now the press are supposed to contact the head of Admission? Should I say anything to the President that asked me to have a longer away message, or just let it drop?

    Feel free to let me know if I’m being a goofball. I’m tripped up b/c of what my President said from the get-go.

    1. k*

      Your President was being weird for saying that. That auto response is totally normal and standard, regardless of why someone left. It doesn’t nor make it sound like you were fired. I would just let it go and move on.

    2. Sadsack*

      That doesn’t sound like you were fired, at least not to me. It sounds like you don’t work there any more.

    3. Susan*

      I don’t think your message makes it look like you were fired, but it could be ambiguous. It might be better to write the message in the first person:

      “As of 6/1/17, I no longer work at [College]. Please contact [Chief Enrollment Officer].
      – Death Rides a Pale Volvo”

      I think that might make it more clear that it was your decision to leave, and you were nice enough to set up an auto-reply before you left. I can kind of see where having it written in the third person could make someone wonder if you were fired and your boss or IT had to set up your auto-reply message.

  123. Fluffer Nutter*

    Can any govt HR people answer a question for me? I’m finishing an app now, specifically the supplemental questions which requires me to try and creatively rewrite all the same information that’s already [briefly] in my resume, [extensively] in the job description section of the app, and to a small extent, cover letter. They always say “answer the supplemental questions fully. See resume will be considered an incomplete application” but why? Thanks for any insight!

    1. Uncivil Engineer*

      I have no insight, only empathy. I, too, have filled out a 20 part questionnaire in which I restate the same responses over and over again with different wording. The maddening part is that, when I’m doing the hiring, I never see the application. I only see the resume. I know HR uses the application to weed out those who are completely unqualified for the position but I feel like that could be accomplished with ~3 questions.

    2. gwal*

      I assume it is because these surveys are not written by the hiring managers, may need to be written to suit some list of competencies, may need to be kept on record to suit some documentation/decision making, may have been put in place with many different eyeballs looking at them at many different times (thus grandfathering in unnecessary questions), or…some other reason. Gov’t hiring is a pain but I would say don’t get too creative–use the key terms for your discipline even if you start sounding like a broken record (though don’t copy/paste big chunks or anything like that).

      1. Fluffer Nutter*

        Thanks for the feedback. I have gotten govt jobs before and it’s worth it, but am switching fields so have to really redo everything and it makes me want to cheese grate my knuckles as a fun diversion. My other peeve- when they’re closing the position after the first 50 applicants, but the system lets you apply [goodbye 3 hours where I could have binge watched Queen Sugar] and THEN you get the instant auto reply email that you missed it. Everyone and their trained monkey wants to move to my city now so unless you can do the app the day the job posts you’re screwed. They can easily have the 50 applicants the same day. Happy Friday!

  124. DaniCalifornia*

    Have a question for my spouse. He works for a large corporation and they were supposed to be releasing a big product but it’s gotten pushed back due to issues they are finding. His supervisor is being unreasonable. Blaming him wholly for things that are about 2% his fault (things that several people missed), implying that he’s a lousy work (untrue) and being unprofessional with his tearing apart of my spouse within earshot of many colleagues. The device is failing due to multiple issues and spouse was even lauded last week for finding an issue the computer didn’t catch. He has stayed calm with every interaction with angry supervisor, worked even harder, but even his colleagues notice the supervisor is being unreasonable to him and they have spoken to my spouse about it. His supervisor chewed him out yesterday, then called him later and was decent and even thanked him. Then this morning reamed him even more and gave him more work for the weekend.

    Spouse recognizes that his supervisor is not a good manager. He micromanages, panics and does not remain calm when issues arrive and everything is high priority. He recognizes his supervisor is not likely to change as he has been this way for several years. Spouse is worried about his job as last year he was the scapegoat on a problem that influenced his supervisor’s boss and downgraded his raise.

    Advice for what my spouse can do in the moment? Or when things have cooled down? A script or phrases to use when the supervisor flies off the handle?

    1. SoMad*

      Look for a new job? My spouse was just let go because of “Fit and Performance” by a manager who sounds just like this one. Except she let him go right after giving him a raise and bonus.

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        Thank you so much! I really appreciate the help and those are great things to say.

  125. Evandarya*

    Has anyone run into a situation where a coworker gets a boyfriend or girlfriend and their personality completly changes, and they forget how to do their job? One of my coworkers did. She was nice enough, smart, good at her job, reliable, and fun to be around. Then she got a boyfriend, and almost immediately she changed. She shows up to work 10 minutes late almost every day, she takes 20 minute breaks, and multiple 10 minute bathroom breaks per day. She has forgotten the simplest things, consistently asks questions she should know the answer to, and snaps, or talks down to you when you correct her when she makes a mistake. I am at the end of my rope. She is on everyone’s bad side, but my workplace makes it very hard to fire someone.

    1. k*

      If you’re close enough to her it would be fair to say, “Hey, I noticed you’ve been acting different lately. Is everything okay.” If you don’t feel comfortable talking to her directly, you could approach her manager and say something like “I wanted to talk to you about Jane. She’s been doing things like X, Y, and Z lately. It’s made it difficult to work with her and I know that others have noticed as well. You may have already noticed this, but it’s so out of character for her that I’m concerned and wanted to let you know.”

      1. Not Karen*

        Yes, first and foremost express CONCERN. If you have an EAP bring that up. I understand the frustration but this is suspicious of the behavior of an abuse victim.

    2. LQ*

      The first part sounds sort of normal to me at the start of relationships. (The late/extra breaks/etc, generally time on the phone, staying up to late etc.) If it was just that I’d kind of say, eh let it go for a little while and treat it as the really pleasant side of that same thing happening when someone has something tragic happen. But all the rest is not really ok. Is it possible to …wait? Especially for the first couple just not respond right away, push those things back onto her plate?
      For the snapping and mistake talking down you likely don’t want to take my advice. When someone does too much of this to me I get real crabby and say something along the lines of “I don’t care how you feel about it, I don’t care if you’re upset with me I care about the people out there. The people who we are trying to help every single day. I’m trying to make sure that happens every single day and people get what they need.” It’s far from perfect but it works for me because people know I really mean it when I say that.

    3. anon24*

      Reminds me of when I worked at a car wash as a teen. One of my co-workers was in her mid-20s and went on a date with the owners son. After one date she was planning the wedding and trying to figure out how soon they could get engaged. She was running the cash register/washing the cars one day and I was on the other end drying the cars. A police officer who was a regular customer came through, handed me payment for his wash (that should have been paid for before it got washed) and said “hey go give this to her for my wash and tell her to get her head out of the clouds”. I did just that and she admitted that she had completely forgotten to have him pay for his wash!

      She had been a good friend of mine until she started dating (and married) this guy. Her whole personality completely changed and she lost all respect from her co-workers. She went from being hard working to being lazy and trying to pawn her work off on other people. No one could stand her and we were so happy when she left.

  126. Jazzyisanonymous*

    So, early on in my career and hoping for advice. In my last job, which was the only main one after college, I ended up leaving after a year and a half after the owner of the small business starting talking seriously about selling. I didn’t want get left in the lurch.
    I got my current job about a year and a half ago and recently got promoted. Now, I’m hugely overwhelmed, working around sixty hours and six days per week. Took a vacation, came back and I’m drowning trying to catch up.
    When I bring anything up all I hear is that everybody is drowning and that’s just how it is.
    I’m not trying to be a job Hopper, but working this much is impacting my health and marriage. I’m barely sleeping or eating, and I’m so stressed I’ve lost thirty pounds this year.
    What I can do to hold out long enough to preserve my resume and reputation?

    1. k*

      Former job hopper here, some I might be biased. I think you should find a new job as soon as possible. Having multiple short jobs on your resume isn’t the best thing in the world, but it’s also very possible to overcome. In this case, it’s only two jobs not long out of college. That’s not that bad. And if someone asks you about it in an interview, you have valid and understandable reasons for leaving. That’s a heck of a lot better than trying to explain that you just didn’t like it, or you got bored.

      At the end of the day, this job is seriously impacting your health and well being. That’s NOT OKAY. I was in that position once and stayed longer than I should. At the time I felt like I didn’t have a choice and had to stick it out. It got so bad that I reached my breaking point and quit without another job lined up. Now that I’ve had better jobs and years to gain perspective, all I can think is “Whey the heck did I put up with that for so long?!” Don’t be me. Go brush up your resume and start looking for a job that isn’t actively trying to kill you.

    2. Fluffer Nutter*

      Agree with k- I have serious health problems now from sitcking it out at a job where “that’s just how it is”. “Everyone is drowning” doesn’t make it acceptable, just dysfunctional. Vet the next place carefully though, using AAM’s tips. Good luck!

    3. Natalie*

      You have nothing to lose by starting to look now. Yes, it’s possible you will be screened out of some positions, but there are plenty where 2 18-month stints isn’t egregious enough to be a dealbreaker. And most importantly, if you wait you will get more burned out, and you are way more likely to jump at the first offer without taking the time to determine if it’s somewhere you can stay for a longer term.

  127. BRR*

    My office heavily uses IM because we’re an open office and many of us work from home part of the week. Often times someone will IM me and I will respond right away and then not hear anything back for hours if at all. These messages are conversation starters, not questions. So like seeing if I’m around or starting something that will need a little back and forth but not a lot. I hate how these messages interrupt me and then I will be interrupted again whenever people get around to replying. I try to reply right away and not leave the messages waiting because the IMs are usually more pressing than email. I’ve learned to move on with my day but I’m really annoyed that people seem to send a message then go do something else without waiting for a reply. Any advice? Am I overreacting?

    1. H.C.*

      RE: IM interruptions, I make liberal use of my IM app’s busy/away feature when I’m concentrating on tasks, so IMs that come don’t pop up and disturb me until I finish my task at hand (if colleagues’ requests are truly that urgent, they will phone/see me in person).

      RE: other colleagues not answering; similar to above, if it’s urgent I’ll phone / swing by their workspaces if there’s something that needs immediate answer. If not, I’ll wait till lunch or end of workday and export outstanding IM requests to an email.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      You may not want to use this:

      “Can you put your words a little closer together? I am falling asleep between sentences…”

  128. Academic library interview follow-up*

    I had a two-day interview for an academic librarian position, which mostly parallels how faculty is hired, though I think it’s less onerous. But it’s similar in that you meet with lots of different people and give a talk, etc. So now the thank you notes. Obviously I’m not writing to everyone I met with, it would be 16-20 notes. I’ve narrowed it down to a few options I’m mostly comfortable with. So, should I:

    a) Write 3 thank yous: one to the hiring manager (who’s also on the search committee), and two to the department heads who met with me individually and would work with this position very closely.
    b) Write thank yous only to the search committee (4 people).
    c) Write 6 thank yous to the hiring committee and the department heads.

    Bearing in mind that each additional new thank you note is another opportunity to say something wrong or make some kind of mistake. :P

    1. dear Liza dear liza*

      IME, (b) is the most common and perfectly adequate option. In that note, you can mention your appreciation of the time with the dept heads.

      1. Academic library interview follow-up*

        This makes sense and puts me at ease. Thank you very much!

    2. ModernHypatia*

      I usually do b, but have on occasion added one or two more if I had a conversation where there was something particularly relevant. (Like we were talking about a thing, and I wanted to give them the full title/URL/etc.)

      Otherwise, search committee with a “I really appreciated the chance to meet [other people], and can you please pass on my thanks for their time and great conversations.” or something like that works fine.

  129. ThatGirl*

    Excuse my brief anxiety-rant: I had a really great interview last week, was told I should hear something by early this week, and I did hear back from the hr rep — but only to say that they were really busy/crazed with a big office move and she would definitely get back to me as soon as she could. It’s totally valid, and the whole company is moving, but I really would love to hear back and stop the anxiety-voices in my head!

  130. JustaCPA*

    Having been on the other side of the job hunting wall this past year, I understand how frustrating it is to sned out resume upon resume and not get picked.

    However, (WARNING KVETCH AHEAD) I find myself quite aggravated by the resumes I’ve been getting for a position we have available. The amount of “text” and “twitter” speak is ASTOUNDING (for the record, if you use “u” instead of “you”, your resume is binned) This position could be a true entry level job or a good place for a mom reentering the workplace to start, doesnt require a college degree and we offer great benefits. The one thing the person MUST have is attention to detail and be able to pick things up quickly. In almost 60 resumes so far, I have about four that seem remotely relevant, properly composed and with correct spelling and grammar. I’m going crazy with these applications!

    If you’re not getting calls, please, for the love of everything, USE the grammar and spellcheck in your word processor AND have someone (ideally your English teacher!) eyeball it for you!

    Ok rant over. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

  131. HFSteph*

    So I had a phone interview this morning with a tech startup based in Colorado. They work in the housing industry. The position title is “Marketing Content Creator.” When they asked me about starting salary, I said that I was flexible, but I think I am worth $45k-48k per year. I then asked if that was in line with their budget for the position, and they said tat they were thinking more along the lines of $35k per year plus benefits. Thankfully I’m in a position where health and dental/eye benefits aren’t a high priority for me, as I am on my partner’s plan with excellent coverage. And I would still certainly consider $35k, because I would essentially have a 10 minute commute instead of a 60 minute commute, so that’s certainly worth something in terms of quality of life, cost of gas, and wear and tear on the car.
    I guess my question is: Am I off base in thinking that this is a low salary for the position? Or am I under the wrong impression that tech startups usually boast higher salaries? If offered the position, I will likely try to negotiate, but what is a reasonable number to ask for at that point? Any help would be appreciated!!

    1. Manders*

      This is part of why I’m getting out of content creation and focusing on more technical aspects of SEO–the content creation jobs in my tech-heavy area do seem to be looking for entry-level folks, and there are always young writers willing to take those jobs at that price point. I think you might be able to get a higher salary if the content you’re working on leans more heavily toward graphics or video creation, but I don’t know those fields very well.

      1. HFSteph*

        Interesting, thank you!!

        My background is definitely strong in content creation (used to write and edit K-12 textbooks) and I currently work in property management, so I am deeply familiar with the product this company is selling, but I’m lacking in SEO experience. I have made around $40k+ in my current and previous jobs, and was hoping this would be a bump up. Maybe I need to re-evaluate/explore my career path and goals.

        1. Manders*

          I’ve heard of some people making a good living just doing content creation, but most of the ones I know are freelancers who spent years building their reputation and collecting clients. I think picking up some basic SEO knowledge would be a good idea if you’re going to be writing for the web. It’s useful to know *why* you’re doing all this writing, and you might end up getting excited about a career path you’ve never heard of before.

    2. CAA*

      It’s my experience that tech startup salaries tend to be lower than those in large tech companies. They usually try to make up for it in perks and stock options.

      Also, some will prefer to reward the people who make the product more than those who sell it. Look carefully at the founders’ backgrounds and see where they come from. If they’re engineers, they may undervalue marketing.

      1. Manders*

        That’s a really good point. I’ve also heard that some boy’s club-type tech startups will use the marketing department to fill their quota of “diversity hires,” but won’t value them enough to pay them fairly. I haven’t seen it in action personally but I’ve been warned about it by other women in my field.

    3. Fluffer Nutter*

      Colorado, Denver metro specifically, has become one of the most expensive places for housing in the nation, no end in sight, and perversely, stagnant or falling wages in many fields. I’m sure you’ve done your research, I don’t mean to be condescending but some people are just so excited to move here that they skip that part. Your partner will need to be very high earning. FWIW, my guy is a senior web dev who just went through interviews in Denver. He was getting offers at $20-35k BELOW what all the salary sites say are the going rate and in many cases, 10-20% below his last couple jobs. Downtown start ups were the worst offenders, and some got openly offended when he tried to negotiate. First time he’s ever experienced that. IDK if so many people are moving here that it’s driven wages down, or some other factor. He got so aggro that he went back to contracting. Good luck!

    4. Princess Carolyn*

      I do something similar in a low COL market and make about $47,500 ($23/hr). But the initial offer I got was $41,600 ($20/hr). I argued that because the insurance they offer was average at best and kind of expensive, and the specific job they want me to do (building a content marketing program from scratch) was a big one, and they agreed to my request of $23/hr. I have several years of experience in writing and editing but

      So, yeah, $35k is pretty low if you’re in Denver. Not insane, but… I think you should try for more.

      1. Princess Carolyn*

        Oops, hit send too early. Meant to say I have several (~6) years of experience in writing and editing but my background is not in marketing, I have zero experience in my company’s industry, and I’ve never done content marketing or even copywriting for money. So I’m not a slam-dunk candidate or anything; it’s mostly transferrable skills.

        The market I’m in has a dearth of marketing/creative talent available (it’s kind of an industrial place and not terribly young adult-friendly), so it’s probably less competitive than Denver.

  133. Sarah W*

    What does it mean when a business describes itself as having a “start-up environment” when they are clearly not one? This seems to be a trend that I am frequently seeing in job postings. Even for positions in well-established businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

    1. Lily Rowan*

      You’ll be expected to work your ass off, forget about 9-5, systems, policies, etc. But maybe they will buy you lunch??

      Is what I’d assume.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I would say a lot of catered food and ping pong tables, an open office setting, an expectation you’ll work long hours cheerfully, and no clearly defined roles.

    3. NaoNao*

      Usually they think it means:
      An open office plan that is casual and encourages collaboration
      An agile business staff–decisions are made quickly, without a lot of layers and layers of approvals and checking for QA and processes
      A staff that wears many hats and an opportunity to learn lots of different aspects of the business
      A day that is full of varied and challenging tasks
      A tech focused or adjacent company

      I think the downsides would be:
      No HR or other protective corporate structures
      Very little life/work balance—you’ll be on call or available all the time
      Most of your work will be challenging, even a stretch outside your skill or comfort zone
      The pay may be lower or not in scale with the market; they may offer stock or other benefits (free lunch, free public transpo, gym, etc)

  134. Sonia*

    TLDR: We’re moving to a newly renovated office space and everyone seems miserable about a new policy detailed below, so what can I do for my team as their manager? I’ve approached my director but he’s scared of the executive director and doesn’t want to ruffle him.

    Full version: Last week the executive director finally revealed the renderings and some new policies that will accompany our move to a brand spanking new office space. There are a variety of grievances but I’ve whittled it down to this:

    To prevent food smells spreading into the lobby where clients visit daily, people without a private office will not be allowed to eat at their desks. 20 staff members, one 6 person dining table in the kitchen area. He offered up the new large conference room that opens out onto the lobby and also becomes part of the new theater space intended for guests to view presentations.

    So…to avoid clients smelling our food, we’re being asked to eat in an area adjacent to the lobby instead of at our desks in our closed off, non-public office space. Oh and we can’t “leave” food smell in this conference room, however that can be achieved. This seems overall absurd and easy to repair–let people eat at their desks like we always have instead of putting us in a fishbowl out in the lobby which is where you don’t want food smell to linger in the first place. But I’ve already spoken up to my director and been pushed back (as I mentioned, he’s scared of the ED who made this policy).

    My feeling, and it’s the one I expressed to my director, is that this policy is dictating how people should behave during their unpaid lunch break. Currently, most people behave like this during their lunch break now: browsing the web, catching up on podcasts and streaming shows (with headphones of course), and leisurely eating their lunch at their desk. Many staff also address simple work tasks while eating their lunch, like answering emails and such.

    The ED explicitly stated this policy is to prevent food smells from reaching the lobby area where clients visit, not for any supposed benefit like encouraging staff to eat together or to get out of the office. To me it’s punitive and petty, not to mention illogical and unenforceable. I sure as heck am not about to tell my staff to spit out their food or move to the conference room if I “catch” them sneaking lunch at their desk.

    What can I do to make up for this or to squash this policy for my staff?

    1. Oy vey*

      You and your colleagues might disagree with it, but it’s obviously a significant issue for your ED. It doesn’t really matter why. Instead of pushing back on the policy, perhaps it might work to your advantage to identify other creative solutions that might resolve the issue. Perhaps there’s an empty office somewhere or you can buy a larger table for the breakroom, maybe purchase an air purifier.

      To be honest, you seem really upset over a policy regarding lunch. I understand it might be an inconvenience, but perhaps this is part of a larger issue you have with senior management and how they manage office practices?

      1. Observer*

        I’m sure it is part of a bigger issue. The rule is just so asking for trouble, and the manager’s response is so craven that it speaks to big problems.

    2. LCL*

      From what you write, it looks like you are trying to jailhouse lawyer to override a manager’s preference. This usually doesn’t end well for the jhl. Good on you for speaking up to your director and stating your case, but I don’t think it will work here. I would concentrate on the specific-the breakroom doesn’t have enough capacity, if we are all eating there we need a bigger table/fridge/micro/staggered lunch hour, etc. And yes, ED is being totally illogical by suggesting the conference room as a solution.

      Your main argument, that this dictates how people behave during their unpaid break, doesn’t work because companies do that. I can’t go out and drink beer in my car during my unpaid lunch.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Many of my jobs only allowed eating in a designated area for numerous reasons.

      That said, I think the ED’s statements are not logical. What will happen if a client smells food, while they steal it from the employee? Will they tackle the employee, then steal the food? wth.

      If clients are such delicate beings that they cannot be allowed to smell food, what else will disrupt them?

      I am not sure why you say it’s unenforceable. Any time an employee brought food into a work area, they got written up. That seemed to enforce the rule in an effective manner.

      I would just tell the staff it is what it is. I would let them know that many places restrict where people eat. The only good thing is that everyone is working under the same rule, no exceptions.
      Then unknown to my crew, I would go to my boss and let my boss know that it is causing a lot of upset with the rank and file. “I want to go on record as saying, I don’t think this will achieve the goal that is hoped for.” I have had a few bosses who would say, “Well it is up to you to spin it so that they are okay with it. If they are complaining it is because of the way you told them about it.” In this case, I would reply, “What if a client smells food? How does that injure the company?”

  135. Lily Rowan*

    I submitted this to Alison a while ago, but thought it might be fun to throw out to the group:

    This just happened as I was getting my lunch. A woman who I guess was a manager was sitting at a table with someone I recognize from making my lunch. She was saying things like, “This kind of conversation is never easy,” and “I can’t want this more for you than you want it for yourself.” So, first question — how inappropriate is it to do that in public, with customers right there? But my second question is that in my occasional two minutes of interaction with that guy, I think he’s great! Obviously I don’t know anything more about his performance, but would it have been more inappropriate to say something in the moment?

    (I thought of it again because I saw the same guy at lunch today, so clearly he wasn’t being fired, which I’m glad about.)

    1. Shakoosh*

      Nope. Not approrpriate. You don’t know this person professionally or even personally or what they’re conversation is about. Unless you felt like there was an imminent threat against this person, interrupting their conversation would just be rude.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I guess I’m thinking I know him professionally in that his job is to make my lunch, and I did hear a fair amount of the conversation.

        The point is moot since I didn’t say anything! But I am glad that he wasn’t getting fired in that meeting.

    2. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      Having performance evals and team meetings in the store cafe with customers around is really common in the grocery store chain I used to work for. There just isn’t any other space in the building for these conversations to happen, and mostly customers ignore it. If you really like this guy though, please fill out a comment card and name him specifically as a good worker! Management takes those feedback cards seriously, and almost no one ever bothers to praise hard working employees!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Or fill out the comment card to say you were embarrassed to be privy to an employee’s performance eval. You think it is totally inappropriate for this to be done in a public space. Next time you see an eval going on you will take your business elsewhere.

        More people need to do this type of complaint. It;s degrading to the employee to know everyone is listening.

  136. Sibley*

    One of the newer managers in my dept apparently prefers that the office be silent. She’s become rather known for asking people to be quiet, shushing people, etc. The area has reasonable volume in general, and people can wear headphones. Conversations between staff are necessary for our work. When this first started, various staff were not happy and brought it up with their respective managers, and it was actually discussed by dept upper management. I assume mgmt told her to cut it out because she stopped for a while.

    She’s since started doing it again, but much less aggressively. Staff’s response this time around is to mock her behind her back, since its not overt enough for us to complain to our managers. Nothing is nasty that I’m aware of, but she is being made fun of. She’s been in the dept for years but was just made a manager this year.

    Assuming that this person is aware that this is happening, I don’t really care. She’s bringing it on herself after all, and if she stopped it would all blow over. She also isn’t very friendly with people. My concern is if she’s oblivious enough that she isn’t aware that everyone is laughing at her.

    How can I discretely make sure she knows? Do I need to? I am not going to talk directly to her, we do not have that relationship and she isn’t receptive. But I could talk to another manager, or leave a note or something.

    1. Allypopx*

      I don’t think this is your battle to fight. If you had a good relationship, or if you were her colleague (I’m reading from this that you aren’t a manager) that might be different, but given that’s not the case, I’d ignore it and just don’t be contributing to the behavior.

      If I misread that and you were a manager, then you have some responsibility for the culture of the office, but I’d address it with the mockers, not with her. In fact you can call them out for being unkind now, if they’re you’re colleagues and it’s overt.

      1. Sibley*

        I’m not a manager, I’m one of the staff who has been on the receiving end and actually was one of the people who initially pushed back. It’s things like, Jane is talking to John, and Jane says “oh, are we allowed to talk today?” The person isn’t at her desk or around to hear the comment.

        My view in general is that there are natural consequences for your behavior. Given the culture and this person’s actions, this is the expected consequence.

        1. Allypopx*

          That’s a totally reasonable perspective. I’d just stay out of it then. If she isn’t receptive, making sure she knows won’t result in much benefit outside stirring the pot.

        2. Shakoosh*

          It sounds like the pushback may not be that she’s asking people to be quiet, but that she isn’t well-liked in general and this particular quirk just adds to that. I understand that it might be annoying or frustrating to work with her as a person (or even as a manager), but telling her that people are talking about her behind her back isn’t kind. It’s creating a heightened sense of drama over an issue that isn’t that dramatic. If you are interested in helping her, you could have a chat about how her shushing impacts you and perhaps quiet options that might support her without irritating staff. But, if you truly don’t care how staff see her or aren’t interested in working with her on the issue, I’d leave it.

          1. Sibley*

            I don’t know if she’s not liked in general, she’s on another team from me. Gossip doesn’t always (often) cross the team line in my office. She made herself very much disliked by going on this power trip after she got promoted though! Didn’t help that there were 2 others promoted at the same time, and they haven’t done anything like this.

            I’ll just leave it alone. There’s nothing really over the line being said, and no one is obviously unprofessional about it. Other managers have plenty of opportunities to be aware of the dynamics, even if she isn’t. Thanks :)

  137. Allypopx*

    I’ve finally made the solid decision to leave my job.

    I’m going to stay until the end of the year to save up some money and give a solid amount of notice. I plan to tell my boss in September, unless some kind of perfect opening comes up before then. And then I’ll stay until the end of December. I’m also seeing a therapist in the interim to help with stress management.

    I feel so free, but also so restless. Six months is a long time, and 2-3 months is a long time to keep a secret. I’m excited but sad, and I don’t like feeling like I’m being dishonest, but I know my boss is going to be immediately in prep mode as soon as I tell him, and I need to wait for high season to wane before I have the energy to deal with that.

    But there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

    1. Zathras*

      It can be a relief to finally make the decision that you are definitely leaving, even if you don’t have any action items yet. Best of luck!

  138. Fawnly*

    How can I stop a chatty coworker from chatting? Tbh I don’t care about most of what he says and he can talk for hours about anything. We share an office and not even wearing headphones deters him anymore. I’ve tried being forward (“Joe, I’m busy right now and I can’t chat.”, straight up ignoring him, headphones…nothing works. I’m miserable.

      1. Fawnly*

        He says “Okay” and the talking stops for about 15 minutes. He’s admitted that he would talk to a brick wall. Sometimes he gets angry and throws things around his desk if I tell him I can’t chat. I always respond to important work-related discussions but may tell him I can’t chat or help when I *know* he’s trying to find a reason to talk, such as asking a question that he already knows the answer to or asking me if I know a telephone number off the top of my head for a company I’ve never called or know about.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          When he starts back up: “Dude, I said I’m really busy and can’t talk.”

          And then a bigger picture discussion: “Hey, I’m finding it hard to share space with you because you don’t respect it when I tell you I can’t talk and need to focus. What’s up with that?” … followed by “I really need you to respect it going forward. I can’t keep my productivity where it needs to be if you keep interrupting me.”

          And when he gets angry and throws things around (!): “Wow, that’s really inappropriate. Cut it out.”

          And if he doesn’t stop the angry reaction after that, talk to your boss because that’s truly nuts.

    2. Fawnly*

      I forgot to mention, sometimes he just blurts out things and if I don’t respond he rolls his chair to the window we have separating our cubicle and stares at me. It makes it really hard to ignore because I can see him in my peripheral vision.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Do you have a mutual boss? I think after you’ve already directly addressed it with Joe, it’s not horrible to go to the manager and bring it up as something that’s interfering with your productivity.

      1. VivaL*

        This dude is seriously boundary-violating. It’s not you that needs to get him to stop – i.e. you’re not responsible for his behavior, stopping it, or causing it.

        It’s *him* that needs to have already learned it’s disrespectful and boundary violating. I’d go with the exact script AAM has typed out. And if it continues after that – just *one* time, I’d escalate to your boss and tell him that your work habits are incompatible and you’d like to switch offices.

  139. New Owner*

    I’m getting to talk to my new boss today! My current bosses are selling the business. I’m the only employee. They didn’t want me to talk to the boss until everything is arranged but the switch is happening in the next month and I have a two week vacation planned. Any advice on questions I should be asking? I need to know how long the business will be closed, new hours, how will I coexist with her current business, pto (I don’t currently get any) and anything else? Besides questions about how my role will change.

  140. Coffee and Mountains*

    I feel so stuck.
    I started a new position about a year ago in my field. I left a job that had seriously burned me out and I needed a change. My new position is a small step up but I took a small pay cut, lost half my vacation time, and I’m bored. C-level is dysfunctional and I don’t see a long term future here at all. But, my market is flooded and there are no jobs at my level. None. But, my husband and I have talked about it and we don’t think it’s a good idea to move. So we’re staying here. I just don’t know what to do. Should I ride it out, is some of this still the burnout talking? Or should I look into switching careers? There are a lot of things that I do love about my career, but the long-term prospects, lack of benefits, lack of pay, and stress are just starting to wear on me.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I think you should start looking around. One of the most depressing feelings is to feel stuck. Start looking around and gathering ideas, don’t wait for this to get worse.

  141. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    SOMEONE keeps cutting many of the Friday donuts in half! God donut, I just want an entire one!

    1. Manders*

      Are you on the west coast too? I never saw this on the east coast, but ever since I moved to Seattle I’ve picked up the weird food-splitting habit. The donut gets split in half, and the next person splits what remains in half, until all that’s left are tiny donut slivers.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Well, that depends. . .a popular donut chain here in the middle of the country has donuts the size of a small country. Taking one is like eating 3 regular donuts.

    4. Rincat*

      It’s especially bad when it’s jelly or cream filled and all the insides come gooshing out and just sit in the box getting gross.

    5. overeducated*

      Some shops make donuts the size of salad plates, though. And if there’s only one of different types, it’s a way of sharing so that someone else can try the maple bacon cream too – if they want a whole donut they can even try two different kinds! I am generally in favor of cutting large donuts in half provided that they don’t get mangled.

      In fact, I attempted to cut one in half at a meeting this morning. But it was a jelly donut, and all the jelly turned out to be in the side I wasn’t holding on to. Realizing I couldn’t just manhandle one half of the donut and then take the other, I had to eat the whole thing. HAD TO.

    6. Newby*

      That’s common where I work. Sometimes people bring in donuts to share and we cut them in half to make sure everyone gets some.

  142. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Well, the moral of the moment is momentum, and getting it back. Like so many New Years’ resolutions, my networking push early in the year fizzled into frustration and confusion so I’m trying to regroup. I think the lessons of my Unending Post-Law School Job Search so far have been that my search has been (1) too narrow, (2) hasn’t included networking, and (3) the jobs I’ve gone for are just really really competitive.

    Since I can’t do bubkis about number three, I’m trying to work on one and two, but now I’m left with a modest list of jobs I’m pretty sure I don’t want, and a big messy list of things I’d be happy to give a try if someone would give me the chance. I’ve been using my lack of focus as an excuse for not networking, but I really need to suck it up and get back to the coffees. Sigh. I guess I don’t actually have a question for this week, but as always, it’s great to know this community is here.

    1. overeducated*

      I hear you! It’s hard and I like that you keep updating because sometimes these things take a while. I’m just dipping my toes into the waters of networking with the realization that that’s how people get jobs here, especially industry jobs that aren’t an exact match for your background. So far I’ve just managed to send two emails this week (neither of which has been answered), but it’s a start.

  143. Liane*

    Writers, editors/proofreaders, & English teachers:
    For a while now I have been seeing sentences using reflexive pronouns (myself, herself, etc.) instead of pronouns like I, she, he and so on.
    Example 1: Galahad and myself preordered copies of Alison’s book.” vs. “Galahad and I preordered copies of Alison’s book.”
    I have also seen it done using herself/himself instead of she/he. I learned that the second example is correct, that the -self pronouns are only intensive/reflexive, never subjects. Within the last year, I have seen a lot of constructions like the first. Is that now acceptable?
    It bugs me a lot, but I don’t want to go to the trouble of fixing acceptable writing and certainly don’t want to tell the writers to cut it out unless it is outright wrong.

      1. Nosy Nelly*

        I’m so glad that there are some people other than AAM who see blog copy editing/proofreading as important. Sometimes I’m blown away by the big-deal, full time bloggers and their ability to phone it in with horrible grammar, spelling, punctuation, AND sentence structure.

    2. jason*

      no it’s not grammatically acceptable, but it’s unfortunately super common. if you’re a copy editor who notices someone doing it consistently, i’d gently point it out

    3. katamia*

      It’s not acceptable. My impression is that the people who do it are generally trying to sound smarter but don’t understand grammar well enough to do so properly, similar to how people have heard, “Say “Johnny and I, not Johnny and me” and will then go on to say, “Oh, Meryl called Johnny and I to ask if we wanted to go to the party” even though in that case it really should be “Johnny and me.”

      –Former ESL teacher, current writer and copyeditor/proofreader

      1. Anony Mouse*

        Ugh, “Meryl called Johnny and I” drives me up a wall! Lots of people do that in my part of the country.

      2. Kat*

        Agreed. I think people believe it sounds formal for some reason, but it’s totally wrong.

      3. Liane*

        Yes, the I/me thing is another of my pet grammar peeves. I have a ton of them. And thanks, everyone, I suspected the myself thing was unacceptable but wanted to be sure.

        Jason: yes, I do point things out. :) Thankfully, this bunch of writers is grateful.

  144. Red Panda*

    I work for a university. My boss just called me in for a meeting. She told me about major changes that our division hopes to make within the next 2 years, in order to comply with accreditation standards. These changes mean I’m likely to experience a significant change in my job duties. I might get to have a say in the change, taking on some new responsibilities and giving some of my old ones to a new (hypothetical) FTE. Or, if my boss doesn’t get approval for a new FTE, it might just mean that I have additional duties added to my current ones. She said she would prefer if I could “just do it all.” I asked her if this would impact on my job title and/or pay, and she said, “Maybe. I really do not know.”

    What my boss doesn’t know is that I’m actively job-hunting. In fact, I started my search within a couple of months of starting. I’ve had a few interviews and one offer I turned down because it wasn’t a good move in terms of my career in the long-term. Nothing else in the pipeline right now. The economy is slow right now in our state.

    When I was hired, I was told I’d be replacing one person, but in actuality I replaced two people. My current duties already stretch me to the limit of what I can accomplish in a workday, and the university doesn’t allow overtime. I am the lowest-paid person in our office, even though my boss acknowledges that I have the “most complicated job” out of everyone.

    I’m supposed to take the weekend to think about it and then tell her my thoughts on the situation. Since our university has had several successive years of state budget cuts, I think it’s unlikely we’ll get another FTE. So, I’m afraid I’m going to end up being expected to do more work without additional resources or pay—and then I’ll be penalized when I’m not able to deliver. Maybe I’m just being paranoid. I acknowledge that I don’t like my job or trust my boss. But I don’t want to be taken advantage of, either.

    Any thoughts or advice on how I should respond to my boss?

    1. paul*

      how rational/decent is your boss? I mean, saying that you were already overworked and underpaid enough to be job hunting and can’t take on other position might be a reality check for them. But that assumes they’r enot the sort to take that personally or flip out.

      1. Red Panda*

        We have a better relationship than when I started, but that’s not saying much. She has blamed me for mistakes that weren’t my fault, criticized my ideas and questioned her decision to hire me in front of my coworkers, and would get angry at me for not doing/knowing things that I was never told I was responsible for. (I think part of the problem is that she started only a little while before me, and she doesn’t have a solid grasp of exactly what I do in my job.)

        Some months later, at my first annual performance review, she acknowledged that she had misjudged me and apologized for not treating me better. I realize that not many people would be big enough to apologize like that, but I still don’t feel like I can trust her.

    2. Cruciatus*

      I’d be honest about the possible changes but not that you’re job hunting. Act like you’re not leaving because you’re not…yet. Tell her your misgivings. And *when* you do leave, it’s possible you’ll have set things in motion that are more positive (or at least not actively worse than now) for your replacement. Leaving jobs is normal and there’s never a good time, even when changes are afoot.

    3. Rincat*

      I think I would treat it like any other conversation about being overloaded and burned out – that you can only do so much by yourself, so what does she consider priority? You may not be able to hire another person, but maybe some of the duties could be transferred to another department or dropped. I would use the scripts AAM has for conversations about burnout.

      I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this! I was in the same place in my last job, though it would ebb and flow – and it was at a state university, so I understand those dynamics. I finally got a new position in another department and it’s a world of difference, because my boss doesn’t want me to just “do it all.” He is very invested in making our department a good place to work and having reasonable workloads. So I hope you can find a new job soon. I don’t think you’re being paranoid, but just keep up that job search. I heard many times that I was “so valuable” in my last job but there unreasonable expectations and definitely no raises along with all the extra duties I took on.

    4. WG*

      Since you may have some say in the new duties in your job, can you spend some time mapping out and thinking through what the job could/should look like and still be reasonable for a full-time position? Are there aspects of the job and duties that should fall away if you take on new tasks? Are there aspects that could be differently or moved to other people/offices?

      I’ve worked at a university and found that in some cases jobs were structured a certain way because “that’s the way it’s always been done” and not because it was the best or most efficient way. I’ve had several jobs where I was able to streamline some tasks in order to free up time to take on new tasks. For example, in one job that used Excel heavily, I took a weekend Excel course and learned new functionality that allowed me to streamline tasks (such as use macros for things that used to be done manually) and saved hours of time each week.

  145. Teapot Agent*

    Looking for advice from people in real estate. The primary product of the company I work for is teapots. However they are branching out into real estate investments. Some properties are bought, fixed up, and then flipped. Others are fixed up and then rented out.

    The thing is that they are using the teapot staff as “agents” for the sake of showing the properties. All showings are by appointment only, but the only thing required for a showing is a name, phone number, and email address. No picture ID is required. Some of these appointments are in the evening.

    To me, this is potentially dangerous, not being able to identify the person you are meeting or who they will bring with them.

    Is this standard? In general, how do you handle personal safety? Thanks.

    1. GermanGirl*

      Well, when we were house hunting two years ago, agents usually asked for email, name, phone number and often our address. Nobody asked for ID.

  146. VermiciousKnit*

    So my relatively new coworker in the cube across from me is a habitual heel-clicker, just like Dorothy in Oz. It makes a noise that is akin to water dripping onto a flat surface. I have been really unsuccessful in tuning this out because it’s not steady or constant – she varies the tempo and the rhythm patterns of her clicking throughout the day, and different shoes make different noises.

    If I ask her to stop, she does for a few minutes, but forgets and starts up again. It’s obviously totally unconscious for her (and she is in all other ways a considerate and capable person).

    This noise drives me absolutely batty. I cannot wear headphones due to the nature of my work (I do sometimes put just one in and leave the other ear open, but then the other ear can hear the clicking). I’ve tried a fan/white noise app, but because she’s so nearby the clicking is louder.

    Has anyone been successful in getting a coworker to stop an annoying but unconscious habit? Would it be totally gauche if I brought her a footrest with a piece of foam down the middle to click her heels into instead?

      1. Allypopx*

        I should have been more specific here: Outside “can you stop” in the moment have you addressed the pattern? “Hey, you do this a lot and it’s really distracting. Is there a way you could try to remember to stop, or could we talk about getting a (rubber mat, piece of foam, whatever) to help with the noise?”

    2. Brogrammer*

      Is it the clicking sound that’s important to her, or just the fidgeting? If it’s the fidgeting, maybe suggest she get a rubber mat to tap her feet on to deaden the noise. It’s likely easier to do something about the noise than to get her to kick the habit.

  147. Get a Haircut*

    It’s the 23rd. I have 24 active applications in. I’ve not heard from anyone.
    /end vent/

  148. HFSteph*

    AAM Website Help!

    So when I originally made a comment I clicked “Notify me of follow-up comments by email,” because I thought it would only let me know when someone replied to my comment. But I’m getting a notification every single time someone comments in the thread at all. My phone is buzzing with a new email notification every 3 seconds. I love this site and knowing that so many awesome people are contributing, but the phone buzz is not so great for my productivity on a Friday. Is there any way to retroactively turn this off? Thanks in advance!!

    1. anna green*

      I did the same thing :) click on the manage subscriptions link in the email. you can unsubscribe from the thread.

      1. GermanGirl*

        Yeah, I made that mistake once. I’ll probably never use that feature again though. But I would love an option to subscribe to answers to my comments.

  149. Former LW Going Anon*

    What’s the policy on giving updates on old letters? I know Alison does a call for updates at the end of the year- can we post an update in the open thread before then? Or am I better off waiting until December and emailing it in?

    1. LadyKelvin*

      You can email it in now! Alison posts them as she has time, and they aren’t all always at the end of the year.

  150. Kat*

    My colleague and I started at work almost the same time with just a few months between us (I started first and she joined later). Since then (5 years ago) we have been ‘work wives’; she’s always been the person I went to for a chat or a coffee and so we could both have a moan about work and keep each other going, and although she’s a good few years younger than me we always were on the same wavelength, which I really needed at work. However, a couple of months ago she was promoted and is now my manager. Naturally, we are still friends and I am very happy for her as she deserves it. But it’s weird for me, too. Although I can still chat to her, I can’t do it the same way as before. I can’t confide in her about management decisions and things that worry me because she IS management now! Also, she is my direct manager, so she now does my appraisal, knows how much I get paid (I’d have to ask her if I wanted a raise, one reason I haven’t done so despite planning to this year) and can organise/decide my work. It’s really awkward in that sense. I still want to hang out outside work sometimes (we did this before, not super often but I’ve stayed at her house, went to her wedding with some other colleagues, she’s been to mine, we’ve been out for drinks/food etc) but… it’s weird! It’s weird for me that my close friend knows my salary (but of course I don’t know hers) and has all this influence over my work. Can I still be friends with her? I know it’s more on her than me to decide this, but I don’t want to drop her and make it difficult for her either. She’s now in her own office, so she must feel a bit removed from everyone, but she seems fine at least on the surface (she was delighted with her promotion). I felt before my appraisal that it might all be OK and not as strange as I’d anticipated (we went for dinner with another colleague, the three of us used to be a trio and then third colleague went on maternity leave and now works from home) but after the appraisal I felt a lot worse about it because she said a couple of things I wasn’t 100% in agreement with.

    I know work isn’t a friend zone first and foremost, but I have few friends outside work and she was a good one, so I’d rather not lose her if I can help it. Has this happened to anyone? Is it possible to stay close with the power imbalance?

    1. Kat*

      Oops: By ‘she’s been to mine’ I meant my house, not my wedding – I’m not married!

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      At a previous job, a co-worker who was a good friend became my manager for a couple of years before I left. It was difficult and I had to disconnect from being friends with her while she was my manager. She behaved like the relationship hadn’t changed most of the time but that made it all the more confusing when she wnt into “manager mode.” For me, it was too tricky to deal with the inconsistency.

  151. Shayland*

    I’m thinking about going back to work, and I want to know if short stays while in college are normal.

    I worked at a summer camp for four days (although I don’t put that on my resume), and then I worked canvasing for a few months but had to stop because I had a seizure the left me unable to walk the required distances and navigate steps.

    I didn’t get a job working 10 hours a week leading high school youth in discussions and activism projects. I’m thinking about applying to the big pet stores in my area to be a dog trainer or apply for an internship at my local zoo doing educational programming. I think I’d really enjoy these jobs.

    My mom thinks I should hold off applying until school starts back up to see how things feel. She also wants me to focus on my health because it’s been so touch and go this summer.

    Thoughts?

    I miss working and I’m really excited to be done with college and figuring out my place in the world.

    1. Michele*

      When I look at the resumes of recent college graduates, I like to see that they have worked in college because I think it reflects on a work ethic and that they won’t take a job for granted, but I don’t expect continuous employment.
      Only you know what is best for your health.

      1. Shayland*

        Thanks :P

        Unfortunately I’m pretty clueless when it comes to my health in general. I do think it’s better to put off applying, I’ll try to focus more on personal projects and finding ways to improve and expand my skills. :)

  152. Katie the Fed*

    You guys, I have to tell you something adorable.

    I have a new employee – straight out of college, really young. Her first day was Monday. She found out I was pregnant and was so excited, and then offered to babysit whenever I wanted.

    It caught me SO off guard I could hardly process a response, except to say “Oh, that’s not really allowed, but thanks.”

    It’ll probably be one of those things she laughs about in a few years.

    2. Michele*

      I wonder if we will get an AAM letter–“did I mess up when I offered to babysit for my boss?”

      1. Katie the Fed*

        It’s only a problem if the boss says “uh, hell yes you can! Every Saturday night! Kthanxbai”

    4. Lee Ann*

      That is adorable indeed. The reverse happened to me in my first job out of college. Within the first month, my boss and his wife (who also works for our company, but in a different department) had their first child and my boss tried to volunteer me to babysit. I reflexively said “Hell no!” Then immediately tried to apologize, but he was laughing! Thank God he didn’t take it the wrong way.

  153. NOT a copywriter*

    Just whining. After organizational restructuring my role has now changed and my manager has decided that our team is now responsible for writing all of the copy for external communications.

    I’ll be the first to admit that I do not talent for distilling a message or delivering nuance. I really want to leave that to the pros. I am fine with giving direction to an actual copywriter, but I do not want to write the actual copy itself. The entire reason I chose the career path I’m in is because it had more to do with data and code rather than crafting a message.

    I’m getting the feeling my boss is shoehorning our team into this role because she originally applied for a copy/content role, but instead they convinced her to take her current role because we had no one else in the candidate pool. So this is her sneaky way of doing what she really wants to do, but she’s not listening to me when I say that this isn’t my strong suit. So I also feel like I’m being set up for failure.

    Kicking my search for a new role into high gear…

  154. Lizabeth*

    Anyone have tips for registering a trademark? I’m interested in doing it myself rather than getting a lawyer involved if possible.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I trademarked Ask a Manager myself! It’s actually pretty straightforward and you don’t need a lawyer. Just go here https://www.uspto.gov/trademark and go to the Apply Online section and it’ll walk you through it. When you come to something confusing, just read their help document on that item. It’s sort of like doing your own taxes — annoying but perfectly doable if you read the instructions.

      Do be prepared for it to take several months for them to get back to you.

  155. anna green*

    Going through the emotions about my job search. Thanks to my consistent AAM reading, I’m pretty sure its going fine. I’ve been applying for a little more than 6 months. I’ve gotten a few phone screens, a few interviews, one second interview, etc. No job offers yet, but again, based on what I’ve read here, this is pretty normal. I’m also attempting to change fields a bit, and I’m being pretty picky about my new job options, (I’m trying to get a job as a trainer/instructional designer with no travel component) so there aren’t a ton of jobs out there in my area. So I think I’m doing everything right and I just need to keep improving my application materials/skills and wait until the right thing comes along, but its SO HARD. I keep getting frustrated and want to just give up and feeling that I am totally unqualified for anything and my career is a dead end, and its just such emotional turmoil. Any advice out there on sticking this out for the long haul?

  156. VivaL*

    Hey all!
    I read daily and dont comment frequently, but I love love love this community. I am hitting a wall in my job search and thought I’d throw it out to the best people I know to help me brainstorm.

    I currently work as an admin. I would like to move into a job with more responsibility, but using the same type of skills (and of course gain more/different skill sets). I’m at a loss as to what kinds of titles/roles come after administrative roles – most of what I see is either an admin by another name (Assistant/Coordinator/Specialist) or is manager level. I’m open to various industries.

    If you’ve moved on, or know someone that has moved into another area, how did you/they do it? What environment did they go from and to? I know there’s been threads on this before, but cant seem to find them despite searching.

    Any advice appreciated!

    1. Bertha*

      How about facilities management/facilities coordinator? There is a lot of overlap with admin assistant, but it’s not all the same.. depends on the organization, of course.

    2. KiteFlier*

      Admin is an easy move into an entry-level HR, events, marketing, etc. type role if any of those interest you! I worked as a Receptionist and did a lot of recruitment coordination, as well as some marketing and all of our events planning. I moved in HR full-time after that, but could have gone in several different directions.

    3. Indecisive Bookkeeper*

      I moved from an admin to a bookkeeper. Depending on what kind of admin work and field you’ve done that is a possibility but you may need more school.

      I agree with Kite that HR rolls are probably a good fit.

      Depending on what you’d like to do another option is an office manager type position could be good.

  157. Michele*

    Just a minor vent here. If you submit your resume as an attachment, do not name it “Resume.” Where I work, only the hiring manager has access to the resumes in the system that we use. I have to save them out to another directory so everyone involved in the process can see them. I have to rename at least half of them, and it is annoying. Get off to the right start by including your last name in the file name.

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      To add on this, add the date you submit the resume to the file name. That way if you apply to another job in the future at the company, people will pick the right resume. So mine would be TWaver_Resume_22June2017.pdf

    2. tiny temping teapot*

      I sort through resumes here, and it’s so nice when someone names their pdf NAME_date. Easier to find when I need to forward it through.

    3. Jillociraptor*

      This is a great thing to consider for anytime you’re sending any document to anyone! :) I manage a position control process that involves sending a PDF form, and 90% of them are named “position control” and sent with the subject line “position control.”

    4. Lee Ann*

      Absolutely. I always tell people this. EVERYONE’S resume says resume. If you want yours to stand out, put your name in it.

      My name format is usually Smith, Lee – Resume for Llama Cuddler

      1. CanuckGirl*

        I really wish I’d seen this two days ago. I’m applying for the first time in many years and had no idea I should have done that.
        Hopefully it doesn’t count as a strike against me.

  158. De Minimis*

    I’m trying to decide if I want to apply for a new job. It’s local so it won’t be a huge headache if I take it, but the pay range is so large as to be meaningless.

    The thing is, I enjoy the people and the benefits at my current job, I just feel like the role is not the type of thing I want to do long term. I’m paid really well for my sector, but somewhat underpaid for this market and for my career level. My current job’s actual work [and job title] is a pretty serious downgrade from the work I used to do, and I know longterm this isn’t great for my career. But again, the benefits are amazing.

    I’ve decided I’ll apply if the application process isn’t too onerous. If I’m called hopefully I can get some solid info about salary before committing to anything else.

    1. Lee Ann*

      That sounds reasonable. If you are not that invested in the job, you can ask for an exorbitant salary, or at least one at the high end of the range. You might get it, then the job will suddenly look better. Haha

  159. De Minimis*

    Having a beer at lunch. Okay? Not okay? I will sometimes indulge if I’m not really dealing with many things in the afternoon [no meetings, or working a lot with people face to face.]

    I work in an office and we do have a substance abuse policy, but it seems to be more about actual intoxication at work.
    We have alcohol at office parties, and just had one last week where people returned to work afterward.

    1. Sour Grapes*

      I think this one is incredibly dependent on your office culture/industry. I work in the beverage industry, so frequently we have wine at lunches/events. However I’ve always taken my cue from higher ups – if they have a glass, I feel like it’s ok for me as well. If they abstain, then I don’t either. And if you’re out on your own for lunch, me personally (knowing my industry) would feel ok doing it with the stipulations you’ve mentioned unless your company has random drug/alcohol testing or your manager has made it clear that they don’t drink during work hours (and by proxy you probably shouldn’t either).

      1. Rincat*

        I would take my cues from the higher ups as well. However I have had a beer on my lunch break when I worked from home, and it was from my couch. But I wouldn’t have one out at a restaurant during one of my on-campus days. I’ve also had a beer during lunch when at conferences, but typically I was by myself and it felt wrong not to sample the local brews!

    2. overeducated*

      I think that would be a little off in an office. If you were at a restaurant or working from home I think that would be more okay, since the first is more like “special occasion treat” and the second has no witnesses, but drinking by yourself in an office break room seems weird. People might wonder why you couldn’t just wait until you went home.

        1. De Minimis*

          Yes, I should have said this would be at establishments nearby, not on work premises. The area has a lively bar/restaurant scene.

          Main impetus is that I’m really into checking out different types of beers and this town is a great place to do that. I don’t live nearby so I’m rarely here in my off hours,. I always limit it to one, except on the rare occasions where no one I work with is in the office and the whole place is almost deserted. I also avoid anything super strong [nothing in double digit ABV.] I usually spend about 30-40 minutes afterward walking around, going to bookstores, etc., so whatever buzz I’m feeling is mostly gone by the time I head back to the office.

          My supervisor is religious and is a teetotaler, so he is not really a guide on what to do.
          Our policy would call for various counselling measures to be offered so if I ever got in trouble for it, so if that happened I’d just do what they asked and just not do it anymore.

          But I know it’s semi-risky behavior. Have to admit though that sometimes it makes the workweek go by more easily.

          1. Zathras*

            It depends a lot on what you do. If your job involves making (for example) important financial decisions, you really don’t want to put yourself in a spot where people might be questioning if you made X decision while impaired.

            Based on what you describe, it’s probably fine though. Sounds like you are only doing it when you have low-stakes work ahead, and the office culture is accepting of responsible alcohol use in general. I’d probably still keep it to just one beer, because then I would be able to truthfully say I never have more than one if it did come up.

    3. Andraste*

      Sooo culture dependent I would guess. I’m an attorney and wouldn’t/don’t blink at having drinks at lunch, but I know not everywhere is like that.

    5. Parenthetically*

      We have lots of breweries and wineries around here too. Would it make a difference if you limited yourself to “sampling” i.e. 2-6 oz of beer to try out varieties? At some places you have to order a whole flight as they don’t offer smaller samples by the glass, but I have found this to be a good alternative when I want a taste but don’t want any effects (diminished driving, burbing, trouble staying awake in the afternoon, etc.)
      All that said…if your boss is a teetotaler (depending on her reason) you might want to stay out of the pubs based on the appearance alone.

  160. Sour Grapes*

    Does anyone have experience quitting from a *really* small company? I potentially (fingers crossed!) may be getting a job offer soon, and leaving my current position. However, we’re only two months out from our crazy busy time of the year and I’m the sole employee. Obviously life happens and my employer can’t tie me here, but is there any way to help smooth out/lessen the guilt I feel about leaving them in a potentially awful situation? I will attempt to give them as much notice as possible, but obviously it’s not nearly enough for them to find/hire another person by the time I leave. I’ve organized as best I can, and will be putting the plan for this coming busy season into a booklet, but any other suggestions that people have done would be much appreciated!

    1. De Minimis*

      I was going to say document work procedures but it sounds like you’ve already got that covered.

    2. anna green*

      I would say the same. Give as much notice as possible. Document everything you do so someone else can pick it up. Be available for questions after you leave (for a reasonable amount of time).

    3. Anono-me*

      Since it is the busy season soon, can you suggest hiring temporary help? It will probably make like easier during the busy season if you stay and that way if you leave, the owner will have someone else trained who can help out a little bit. (Also some people who take temporary/part-time positions are doing so to get a foot in the door and or pay some bills, but would prefer full-time permanent position. )

  161. Celiathe*

    Long time lurker and kind of late but I know there are a lot of higher ed folks here. I did my M.Ed in counseling/student personnel and worked as an academic advisor for three years…ten years ago. I then changed fields and have been working in animal welfare, hands on and in the trenches. Burnout hit, started searching and I’ve received an offer at a local, four year public as an academic advisor with a salary I could not turn down. Lots of transfer, first gen and adult students. Any suggestions on how to brush up quickly on changes in the field, current trends and research, what the kids are up to these days? I want to do well but I’m afraid I’ll be rusty and outdated. Also, how to stop swearing like a sailor, wear professionally appropriate clothes and be seated most of the day? In my current role I move constantly, wear BDUs and muzzle anything that gives me trouble :)

    1. Rincat*

      I’m not sure about the advising part since my career is in higher ed IT, but as for the being seated – do you have a nice campus you can walk around? Before I moved into our data center, I’d take a walk on my lunch break and that helped immensely. Even a short five minute walk a couple times a day helps.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Read up on the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Welcome back!

      Your professional attire will help you act more professionally! I definitely act differently in Nikes and sweat pants than I do in a pencil skirt and heels. It’s mostly subconscious.

  162. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Huh, I guess I have a question for the afternoon crowd, after all! I just got a notification about a job at a boutique law firm that does one of the kinds of law I’d really love to do (and have some experience at, even). I have one LinkedIn contact there, someone I worked with briefly a few years ago. I don’t know this person well at all, but should I reach out to them anyhow? If so, before or after applying? Is contacting someone at a place you’ve already applied to work a big no-no, or does it depend on how you know them?

    Networking, aaaaaaah!

    1. KiteFlier*

      I think you could do it both ways. If you reach out before applying, you can say something to the effect that you’re thinking of applying for the position, could they provide info on company culture or ask if they have any insight into the role’s team, day-to-day, etc. Or, if you wait until after you apply, you can reach out and tell them that you applied and ask the same.

    1. anon24*

      Did you make it?

      I can empathize. My job has been intolerable the last few months. Last week I ended up saying to a co-worker “I swear if [boss] says one more word to me right now I’m gone I can’t do this anymore”.

    2. whichsister*

      Amen. If I had a nickel for every time I think “I could just quit and go be a server at Waffle House”

  164. Snatches & Cleans*

    My comment will end up like #10000 so I don’t expect a response! I always miss my window when this gets posted.

    Anyway, I’m planning my retirement. I’m only 56 so this will come as a surprise to my coworkers. I *really* don’t want a fuss. I find retirement parties/gifts at any level to be wildly inappropriate. There is a tradition here of having at least a potluck and gift. I’m consideration not telling anyone other than HR to avoid this. They cannot even post the open position until I’m gone, so it’s not as if I will be training a replacement. And I’ve spent the last year documenting everything. The young ‘uns want my spot so this will be a welcome change for nearly everyone. Especially me!

    Bad form regardless?

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I definitely get your feelings on parties and gifts. Since you’re retiring, I suppose that you really don’t have to worry about burning bridges, not that this would be nearly so bad as to do that. I guess it’s really up to you and how you want to leave things with your workplace. I imagine that if you were someone I worked with and liked and respected I would be a little sad/hurt if you left without saying anything at all, since I wouldn’t have the chance at least to tell you that I liked and respected you and would miss you. But that would be about me, not you. Either way, congratulations on your retirement!

    2. De Minimis*

      I knew people at my last job who would try to request this, but no one would ever listen and they’d have something anyway.

    3. H.C.*

      When I quit OldJob last year, I only gave notice to HR, my boss & grandboss (specifying to the latter two I don’t want anything special for my going away). They wound up getting me something anyways (gift debit card) but I’m glad with how low-key it turned out.

      Having said that, you absolutely have the right to decline having a potluck/party/shindig if that’s what you want.

    4. Anono-me*

      I know two people who have done the paperwork with HR on the quiet and then just not shown up. It left a lot of people feeling vaguely unsettled and a little bit sad. Nothing major but it was so out of ordinary that it actually was a bigger deal/fuss than the traditional potluck. The two retired people just weren’t there to to see it. 10+ years later their names still come up in conversation about odd things coworkers have done.

      A former coworker who is very low-key did something I thought was brilliant and will probably do when I (in about 100+years) retire.

      Low key friend did the HR paperwork but told everyone that she would be taking an extended leave to help a family member, and so wrapped up and handed off all of her projects. Late in the afternoon of the second to her last day she emailed everyone that she was actually retiring with tomorrow being her last day. She thanked everyone for being such wonderful and considerate coworkers. She invited anyone who wanted to say goodbye to stop by her desk the next day , but requested that no big fuss be made, specifically no cake or potluck or group party. Our department signed a card for her and a few people stopped by. She left a little early that day and that was the end of it.

      I guess the question is whether no fuss means no fuss around you or no fuss about you.

      I hopy you enjoy the next chapter in your life.

      1. Snatches & Cleans*

        I can’t do that, because I will be applying for my pension (low salary here but we do have benefits). I don’t think my coworkers will be upset in any way, other than the jockeying for my good projects and away from my boring ones.

    5. Susan*

      Is there someone who normally organizes the parties? Can you go to that person and explain that you would prefer not to have a party, and also mention the same thing to your manager (and ask your manager to reiterate this to the person who plans the parties)? I really think reasonable people would respect your wishes on this.

      Also, I highly doubt HR will agree to keep your retirement a secret from your manager. This is pretty crucial information that your manager needs to know. Unless you don’t give any notice at all, and just go to HR one day and say you’re not coming back tomorrow, your manager will find out, and probably tell other people in the department. And you probably don’t want to do that, because your company might require a certain amount of notice for you to be eligible for retirement benefits, not to mention that it would be kind of rude to your coworkers. Even if they can’t replace you until after you leave, somebody is going to have to fill in until they can hire your replacement, and maybe that person will want to ask questions.

      1. Snatches & Cleans*

        Actually I am pretty sure HR does not have to tell my manager. I’ve seen it done, not here but in a similar organization. Because the position isn’t open until vacated, the manager cannot take any action beforehand, so there is no real actual need for them to know. And technically, I need only tell benefits and do the paperwork with them…personnel is not involved or notified in any way until the position is open.

    6. Menacia*

      This is something I absolutely dread when I leave. All the social butterflies will want to do something when all I want is to sneak out the back.

    7. Tennessee*

      People at my work who don’t want a fuss at retirement tend to tell everyone in a email they are retiring and don’t want a party but to drop by during the last couple of weeks. Here’s the tricky part — they plan their last week to be sometime when most people are off, like the week of Christmas or the week after. Or any big holiday week. Tends to cut down on anyone having the time or energy to plan a party!

  165. Photo organizer plans*

    Any photo book/album designers out there? I’m thinking about starting a side business doing this – that hopefully would grow into a f/t design and photo organizing business. Any thoughts/recommendations for starting out? Thanks!

    1. NaoNao*

      If you’re a woman or female-identifying, there’s a specific online community called “Rising Tide Society”. It’s invite only, but if you have any friends who are photographers, etsy business, or other small “creator” businesses, they may be in it and can invite you. It’s about 80% photographers, but there’s also wedding planners, knitters, artists, etc.
      It’s specifically for women to connect with other female entrepreneurs (although occasionally we get a man, non binary, or other exception, but overwhelmingly female) and build a creative society. They have many resources, so check it out.

  166. I need advice*

    Two questions:

    1) My probation period was extended for 2 additional months because of performance and behavior issues. The letter I have to sign is pretty general in terms of how to correct the issues discussed during my meeting with my supervisor and HR person last Friday. Should I provide a list of things I should improve to be added to the letter or at least put it in writing so I can go back to it on my next probation meeting (it would be from my perspective since I didn’t take notes during the meeting and can’t remember the exact details)?

    2) I have two issues with this new job. First is my relationship with one of my two managers who I share an office with. He’s a non-native English speaker but has been working in the US and international contexts for a while. The way he’s communicated issues he’s had with me is very aggressive, passive-aggressive, or not directly to me at all (to the HR person). It’s happened 3 times in reaction to something I have done or said. I have brought the first event up to this manager and my highest supervisor and both have brushed it under the rug and didn’t directly address it. Second is the work load where I am still adjusting to but it is a lot because we are a small organization. My predecessor left this job partially because (from hearsay) she was burnt out. I believe I can make this job work but is it even worth trying? Should I look for a new job on my extended probation period?

    1. JustaCPA*

      1) I think for sure you should ask from some specific things that need to be worked on

      2) I would be looking for a new job, yes. If in your probationary period you’ve already been essentially out on a PIP, its not a good sign

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Yes, I think start looking. This does not sound good to me, I cannot tell what is wrong here exactly but it sounds like a bad match.

  167. waffles*

    Two questions for senior management: How do you describe achievements when you are a senior manager? How quickly do achievements stack up in this type of role? It is my first time in this type of role (member of a senior team of 5 people, with 200 total staff), and I am struggling with how to describe achievements without feeling like I am taking credit for someone else’s work. I have previously been in individual contributor roles, where it also felt like achievements stacked up more quickly. Here one year later it doesnt feel like I have personally done much.

  168. kate*

    Have any of you made the transition out of academia after finishing a PhD? The academic job market is a dumpster fire for folks like me (woohoo literature) and I have resolved that I’d rather not work in academia then adjunct forever. I’m not on the market for another year, but if becoming Professor Kate doesn’t quite pan out, do you have any tips about how to land on my feet in the work world with a degree like mine?

    1. Manders*

      How do you feel about working at a private high school? They can be good places for former professors who’d rather teach than publish.

    2. Leena Wants Cake*

      I got a PhD and then pursued a career outside academia–but that had been my plan all along, so I was able to build a significant amount of practical experience outside academia before I graduated. I would highly recommend building experience in a non-academic setting (volunteering, interning, part-time work are all fine) before you need to go on the job market. Keep a foot in this non-academic realm while you try for an academic career, and if it doesn’t ultimately pan out you now have months or years of experience in a non-academic field. For a lit degree, maybe something in publishing, editing, or research?

    3. LadyKelvin*

      You should check out versatilephd.com. It is a community of people aimed at helping current gradstudents find jobs outside of academics. It has periodic panels and online discussions and (I believe) job panels. It skews heavily humanities so I didn’t actually use it much (STEM phd here) but it seems like it could be really useful for people like you.

    4. Gloucesterina*

      Hi fellow lit Phd student! Like you, I’ve set my sights on non-traditional jobs, although I’m open to working in higher ed. It’s helped me to have an informal mentor who has made that type of transition (she is at my institution in a non-faculty job). Does your department track graduates’ outcomes/list their current job titles in any way, and could this yield some useful contacts to learn about people’s different paths? Or does your graduate school have a careers office or connections to career coaches that you could look into?

      I also have found these two essays helpful in terms of general inspiration in what con be a confusing but also exciting space:https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2016/07/11/how-identify-your-career-calling-essay
      https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2016/08/22/how-identify-your-core-values-your-career-exploration-process-essay

  169. stressed so*

    I’m kind of late to the thread, but any advice on how to be patient when it’s not you but your signifiant other waiting to hear back from a job? He’s two weeks post interview and doing everything right (sent a thank-you, continued applying, etc.). I’m just a bundle of anxiety and can’t stop thinking about it! We have to move in the next few months and it’s been a few solid months of him unemployed (he was doing election work and data analysis) and job searching, so I’m stressed out beyond belief…

    1. Chaordic One*

      Do what you can to support him and to help him be ready when he finds a job. Take care of yourself (enough sleep, exercise, eating right) and don’t let your performance at your job slip.

      Then, find some things to distract yourself and keep yourself busy while you wait. (As a practical matter I find it helpful to clean things and straighten things and have clean interview clothes and work clothes ready to go.) Then, get some exercise, take long walks (with your hubby and/or your kids and/or dog(s)). Go to the public library and check out some books and/or DVDs. Sometimes libraries have free events like movies or lectures and that’s what I did when I couldn’t afford to do more.

  170. Kat*

    I think I’m too late here too but I have another. Actually the more important problem I have… but I just don’t really know where to start. I am in such an utter job/life slump and feel totally stuck. No idea where to start changing it. So I’ll just leave it there or I could be here all day. :(

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Slumps suuuuuuuck. I realized at the beginning of this year that I am exactly in the same place now as I’ve been for the past two years – doing amazingly dull contract work, applying to permanent jobs, still renting our house, haven’t gotten serious about my health, haven’t figured out if the kid thing is in the cards or not. For me, I decided to really look at what I 100% control and start there – getting and keeping my house in shape, waking up at a consistent time in the morning, really making an effort to figure out this horrible networking thing, and doing my best to step up the healthy campaign. There are lots of days where the only things I really accomplish are waking up early and cleaning the kitchen after dinner, which feels really lame, but DANG IT it’s nice to have a clean kitchen and an hour to myself in the morning.

      1. Kat*

        Yes they do. I’ve been in my job five years and my birthday is coming up in a couple of months and I’ll be 34, so suddenly I realised how little has changed over that time. I don’t want to be 35 and feel the way I know I’m going to feel when I turn 34, so I need to change. It’s massive to think about, so instead of thinking I am slumping. You’re right. I need to find what I can change and do that. But what? I’m honestly feeling like I don’t even know any more. Maybe more exercise and looking for stuff to do outside work that I can enjoy.

        1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

          Hey, I just turned 34, too. Maybe that’s the Oregon Trail Generation’s year for a third-life crisis. I don’t know about you, but I’ve really resisted the idea of trying to be happy with my life as it is now, because that feels like accepting that the massively disappointing place I am in my career right now will never improve. I realize that’s silly and who knows what the future holds, but I certainly won’t sabotage my chance at future success by living a little more “in the moment.”

          1. Director of Things*

            Hang in there, from a fellow Oregon Trail Generation member! No advice, just good vibrations.

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      I found the book Do Over by Jon Acuff to be helpful in terms of getting started on figuring it out. Good luck!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Change one thing. Stop. See where the change puts you.
      Then proceed to change another thing. Again, pause to see where that puts you.

      Do not make that first change hard or huge. Pick something small and doable inside of , let’s say, a week. While you may want to eventually make large changes, start small you can get a feel for how things go and where you land with each change. Making one change at a time is helpful because then you can see what is working and what is not.

      Keep in mind that people need goals the way they need food and water. It’s healthy to have goals and to be working toward them. When you finish one goal, replace it with another.

      Okay so here is a key point. The goal can be anything, learning to knit, getting a pup, becoming a CEO. It does not matter what the goal is, what matters is having goals.

  171. MashaKasha*

    I’m kind of late too! Will repost next Fri if this slips through the cracks. I’ve been reading AAM’s posts on resumes over the last couple of days. I saw a comment on one of the older posts mention a Word template that has skills listed in a sidebar and the work experience in the main column; kind of side by side; and a few people commenting that they’ve been using this format. Sure enough, it being an older post, the link that the comment had to the template no longer works. Does anyone has anything they can recommend? Do you think is it a good format to follow to begin with? (I do like the sound of it, at least for the tech/IT field, but what do I know).

    1. Zathras*

      I’ve seen some resumes like this for tech/IT, it looks fine as long as your list items in the sidebar are just 1-2 words (like the names of programming languages, software packages, etc). You don’t want it to look dense. My resume has something similar but it’s not in a sidebar, it’s just in a section near the top of the resume.

      AAM did a sponsored post for Hloom a while back, which is a site with some free Word templates, maybe look there for ideas? The post was titled “how to stop agonizing over your resume layout”.

      1. MashaKasha*

        Thank you! Yeah the list of programming languages, etc was exactly what I had in mind. Mine is currently up at the top. I’ll go look for that post, thanks again!

  172. Bunanza*

    I’m really frustrated today and need to rant a little. My supervisor and I have the exact same position–in practice, she has 5 years more experience than I do and has seniority over me, but in our corporate scheme our titles and duties are identical. I’ve been at this job for about a year, and although I understood why she didn’t train me in the higher-level duties when I was new, I am becoming increasingly annoyed and let down that she still refuses to let me take over any of those jobs.

    Today when I came in, she had taken all the jobs that she usually delegates to me, leaving me with nothing to work on. She brushed me off when I offered to take them back, then rushed through them because she still needed to complete her own duties (which are more important for our office and which she tells me not to do). I found other things to do and found several pretty glaring mistakes that she made from rushing and not being careful, which she blamed on me when I brought them to her attention.

    I get the impression that she personally dislikes me and is trying to make my position seem unnecessary for our office by doing all our work herself. I don’t think that will actually happen, but it’s pretty infuriating and makes me dread the days where we work together. I love the rest of my coworkers and my boss, and I enjoy my job outside of her, but our dynamic ruins Fridays for me. I’m working way below my ability and it drives me craaaazy.

    Anyway, . Happy Friday, everyone!

    1. Karen*

      This has happened to me everywhere I have worked.

      The one that trains me to basically be their coworker refuses to train me on the more important tasks that require detailed training or passwords to complete. Sometimes they have even prevented me from doing my own job properly because I am dependent on them to complete theses tasks for me.

      I think it is so much that they want to make themselves indispensable so that if it came down to a me-or-them situation for layoffs the boss wouldn’t want to get rid of them because they are the only one that knows X, Y, and Z.

      The worst part is that I tell my boss and my boss acts like I just need to ask them for the training (like I never thought of that). But then there is always the excuse that they are too busy to train/babysit someone and constantly put it off.

      Then when they are sick or on vacation everyone comes to me for these important tasks while I am left sitting there like a complete idiot saying that I have no idea how to do it!

  173. qualitative industry research, anyone?*

    Does anyone here do qualitative research, in marketing or health care or otherwise? I am trying to find a way to move into better funded sectors, my experience is mainly academic and nonprofit, but I’m not even sure what job titles I should be looking for. (I’m mid-career with dependents, so I can’t start in a really entry level low paid job.)

    I have a good set of purely qualitative research skills – ethnographic interviewing and participant observation, focus groups, survey development, basic spatial analysis in GIS, lit review and historical research – but I only took one statistics course in college and haven’t done any complex analysis on the job. All the job titles i’m finding are heavy on quantitative skills and software niches. Are there any niches where I could fit without going back to school? If not, are there skills I could pick up off the job that would really help me?

    1. Anatexis*

      I’m more of a quantitative person but I’ve seen a number of user experience (UX) jobs that are looking for qualitative skills in my area.

    2. Mimmy*

      I wouldn’t go by strictly job titles – maybe try search on key words to include the skills that you list, like “focus groups” or “survey development”. Because research is evidence-based, I think many of them are going to focus more on quantitative skills. That said, qualitative-focused jobs are out there, you just may have to dig a little deeper.

      By the way, how did you get experience in this type of work? Before getting my current job, I’d been looking for these types of jobs myself, but everything either required experience or you had to be a current or recent graduate student.

      1. Qualitative industry research, anyone?*

        Qualitative data is evidence too – it just tends to be less statistically focused! (Wink wink. Just being pedantic here because that’s something I hear a lot, similar to thinking that all science is experimental when there are whole areas that are more observational, like historical geology. )

        Much of my experience actually came during graduate school in a social science field so I know that doesn’t help much. My experience in nonprofits and social service or educational contexts is that there is often a huge need and limited capacity for evaluation to report to funding bodies, so I think if you are in any of those sectors you could probably find a way to volunteer for some of those duties. My current job involves a little bit of interviewing and survey-based program evaluation but not nearly to the degree I’d like, and I don’t have the sample sizes to do any quantitative analysis of data I collect.

        I’m having trouble finding job listings based on skills that don’t require a more “big data” background and approach than I have. Wonder if I should be looking into continuing ed for statistical analysis, not that I have tons of time for it….

  174. Clairels*

    Help! I just got my permit approved for working overseas, all that’s left is to book the tickets. But my boss to be hasn’t given me the okay yet, and I can’t get over the irrational fear that he’s going to ghost me or write back and say sorry, it’s not in the budget anymore. It’s only been a day and he’s already brought up that we have to have a moving chat, and yet I’m terrified that it won’t happen. It’s ridiculous because he jumped through a ton of hoops to get this permit for me, but still.

  175. Anon14*

    How would you answer the question “what is the professional achievement you are most proud of” on a job application? I’m struggling because the lack of ownership I feel over my current projects is a big reason I want to leave my current job.

    1. Cruciatus*

      Hmm, I hate questions like this because I don’t think about myself like this most of the time. And many of my jobs have just required doing the work. Nothing special. Did you maybe master something that now you are the expert in for your department? Or complete a flawless (something) with great feedback from (someone)? Completed a program/training/certification in X amount of years, faster than others? Increased productivity/efficiency by doing blah blah thing? Consistently met tight deadlines with excellent work and feedback? If I had to answer it would probably be something like, “Successfully completed course scheduling for an entire school at X university which required coordinating with 9 program chairs, 100 faculty, multiple departments to be sure of exact scheduling needs for traditional and nontraditional students, and required extreme attention to detail and adherence to university set deadlines.”

      I don’t think you need to go crazy with this, but it’s a moment where I think you need to brag a little. Something already on your resume might be good for this–something you can expound on a little bit. I hope you think of something! Good luck!

  176. Director of Things*

    I just finished a hiring process for 2 different positions. Thanks AAM for your help in back threads on how best to interview and select employees! Question about how to handle rejecting a friend who applied but was not selected for the position. He currently works in another department and applied for a management position under me. I thought he might be a good fit, but was a bit wary regarding the friend quotient (we hang out 1-3 times a month as couples with our spouses, but aren’t close enough that I would call him just to chat). He would be a slight stretch for the position, but we have time to train. Multiple senior staff in 3 different departments then told me not to hire him because he is doing poorly at his current job. Ouch. I also received some pressure to make sure I was hiring someone who could “take a project and run with it” rather than need to get up to speed. I kind of disagree, but it wasn’t worth going to the mat for. Anyway, after that first round of interviews, the perfect candidate applied and she has since accepted the position (yay!). So…what do I tell my friend/internal candidate? The boiler-plate “we’ve hired someone who is a stronger fit” or explain a little more of the situation? Is there something I can say that will be helpful to him in future job searching or within the company?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      You could say that you were surprised by how impressive the resumes were. You were told that the company wanted you to hire someone who needed very little to no training. So you had to pick a person who would start running Project on day one.

      Then go on to tell him that because the two of you are friends you were concerned about accusations of favoritism. Fortunately, the question was resolved because your bosses told you what they wanted you to do. You did not have a lot of say in the decision. Ask him if he would apply to other departments in the future rather than yours. Let him know that this way both of you can protect your jobs.

      1. Director of Things*

        Thanks for your thoughts. I know he’s miserable in his current role, so I feel badly that I couldn’t help him out. I think I can craft a response combining a couple things you mentioned, saying something like, “Given the growth the company is experiencing, I was encouraged to hire someone who could hit the ground running with minimal training. The person I hired held this exact position at AMAZINGCOMPANY, so she was the best match for this role.” And maybe next time I see him in a friend capacity, I can offer to help him in any way I can find other work.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      I think you stick with the “this other candidate was really strong and perfect in ways you aren’t” and don’t mention the pressure from above or that he’s doing poorly in his current job. That wasn’t information given to you to pass on.

      1. Director of Things*

        Thanks – I agree that it isn’t my place to tell him how he’s doing in his current job. And I don’t want to abdicate responsibility and say management told me not to hire you. Just trying to figure out what to say since I feel like I owe him more than what feels like an auto-response.

  177. NotaSupervisingMinionAnymore*

    I just accepted a new job and gave my notice. I am leaving toxic grocery hell for a big player in the wholesale floral industry, being a florist is my current end goal so this move is HUGE for me. Ask A Manager helped me prepare for my interview, shore up my resume, and wouldn’t you know I keep getting calls from other companies that want interviews! But the job I accepted is the FIRST I applied for and the one I really wanted so naturally I am saying thanks but no thanks to all interview requests.

    What I am wondering is if it would be weird if I called the woman who will be training, and managing me about what I should wear to work my first day, in just under two weeks. I’ve worked in a grocery store the last 5 yrs, and thus have warn a uniform for said 5 yrs. This business is a Dutch Style floral auction, and it doesn’t look too formal, based on what my interviewers war, but I don’t want to be the schmuck that comes in looking overdressed for warehouse/cashier/stocking/whatever but I also don’t want to look like the schmuck that doesn’t dress up enough to be in a customer facing position. Like I said, I just accepted this position, and I should have thought to ask when I accepted the position, but I didn’t so would it be weird, or ditzy of me to call on Monday and ask?

    1. Director of Things*

      If you have an email address, I would opt for that. If not, a quick phone call should be okay. Not weird at all to set wardrobe expectations!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. Just say you forgot to ask about the dress code and what attire is expected of employees. Then say you are looking forward to starting or some other cheery thing.

  178. Sophie*

    I’m late to the game, but what are employers looking for when they ask “What are your life plans” ? (I think they wanted to find out if I was planning on starting a family any time soon, but I don’t know. It was weird and I was never asked a question like that.)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Answer it as if you think they mean plans for your career for the rest of your life. “I enjoy working in X arena. I have strengths in A, B and C that I can use. So I think I have some flexibility as to the particular job I am in but I would like to stay in X arena for my career.”

      1. Sophie*

        I did say something like that and the interviewer said, “Not your work plans, but life plan.”

        1. Karen*

          I think you would be best to focus on very vague plans. Like if you plan on staying in the area for a long period of time, if you are aiming to move to a new country in a decade, how long you want to work before you retire…

          In my last interview (we’re in a small town) I focused on explaining how it was important for me to stay in my hometown and had no interest moving South like the majority of new graduates. This was a complete lie but it made the employer think that I was dedicated to the area and wasn’t going to quit suddenly because I got a job offer in a big city.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yep. When I did not own a house, I talked about settling in to an area and calling it my home. You might talk about taking the time to get familiar with your new job, once that is done you are interested in doing volunteer work/ learning pottery making/taking computer courses at a local college.

            Sometimes you can lose them in the details. For example, you can talk about taking a stained glass course and learning to make stained glass windows or art. Talk about that for a few minutes and they might not press any further. I know some of them forgot their question to me.

        2. GermanGirl*

          I think they are looking for reassurance that you’re not going to leave for another round of college or a sunnier location any time soon. I’ve talked about starting house hunting in the near future (which I actually did but only because everything else worked out the way it did).

  179. Late & Confused*

    I know I’m (really) late, but I’d like some advice if anyone’s still reading.

    I’m a rising junior and I got a job offer out of the blue. I’m looking for internships, because they’re more flexible and I need to keep my grades up to have a chance for a semester abroad. I went to an interview and learned it was for a permanent position, and after another interview, I was told the job is mine. It was never present as an offer, as if it was a given I’d accept it. The job market in my country is tough, and even experienced people are having issues finding a job.

    I think I’d like the work itself well enough, and it would be a perfect job in one or two years, but this doesn’t seem like the right moment. I’d like to focus on school and other extracurriculars, as well as maybe finding an internship.

    Am I wrong for not taking the job? How should I communicate to them that I didn’t know it was a job interview (and not one for an internship), and even though I’d love to work at this exact job a couple of years from now, I don’t want it because my focus is school? I don’t want to burn any bridges. :(

    1. CAA*

      I don’t know where you are, and conventions may differ, but in the U.S, you would just say that you’re sorry you cannot accept a permanent position right now because you plan to go back for your final year of school in the fall, but you’re still interested in an internship for the summer if that’s possible. They may say they’re not taking on summer hires this year, and then you just say you’re sorry it didn’t work out but you hope they’ll have a position next year after you’ve graduated. If you’re polite and they’re normal, then it won’t burn any bridges.

      1. Late & Confused*

        I’m in South America. The main difference is that we don’t have summer internships, at least not in most companies. This company in particular does hire interns, but for year-round positions.

        Thank you for your advice! I think I’ll try and say something close to that. I’m just nervous because they never presented it as an actual offer, you know? They sent the admission info and gave me 24h to send everything. But I never said I accepted the position, just told them I wouldn’t be able to send it by then, and got an extension until next Tuesday.

  180. Vacation question*

    How soon is too soon to ask for one or two days off at a new job? Does the answer change if the days are “use it or lose it”? (We have rollover, but I’ll accrue more than I can rollover.) I wanted to take a long weekend trip in October or early November, which would be about 4-4.5 months after I started. If this is even appropriate, I’m also curious about when I should ask. I don’t want to ask too soon, but I also don’t want to wait so long that it’s impossible/inconvenient.

    Other details:
    -People definitely use their PTO here, but I haven’t been around long enough to experience the general attitude
    -My official probationary period will be over by then
    -I’d of course ask if it’s a bad time, etc.

    (I was late to the party last time, so I figured I’d ask this question again to hear more perspectives.)

    1. CAA*

      It sounds like you’re asking for 1 day, which you will have accrued. This would be absolutely no problem in my company. Ask about a month in advance, then remind your manager the week before.

    2. Colette*

      I don’t see a problem with that. That’s long enough for you to develop a reputation for being conscientious and reliable. I think you’re fine – but either ask for it when you get the offer or wait until September so that you have a feel for the business and they have a good impression of you.

    3. Jessesgirl72*

      If you’ve accrued the PTO, it’s not too soon.

      Ask your boss or a coworker how far ahead people typically request off. There might not be any such thing as “too soon” there.

  181. Lee Ann*

    My name is Lee Ann, let’s say Lee Ann Smith. I go by Lee Ann in person, almost no one calls me just Lee. However, I submit resumes under Lee Smith because it’s more gender neutral – I won’t lie, that’s basically the reason. I introduce myself as Lee and only later start going by Lee Ann. Is this deceptive? FWIW, Lee is my legal first name and Ann is my legal middle name. Also, I want my company email addresses to be as short as possible, so lsmith or leesmith@company rather than leeannsmith@company which is another reason not to include my middle name in an application system, because those systems eventually get pulled by HR if the candidate is chosen.

    1. Karen*

      That is not deceptive at all. Think about it – you are just using your legal name!

      Consider “Lee Ann” to be a nickname while “Lee” is your legal name. Most people do not use their middle name on their resume or in their professional email addresses.

      I can see going by “Lee” in your cover letter and resume to avoid possible employers not interviewing you because of their subconscious perception of women, but it might be a bit odd if you kept on going by “Lee” during the interview process to keep up with the appearance on your resume and tell them after hiring that people call you “Lee Ann”. Once the interview stage begins your gender is already out of the bag.

  182. Jessen*

    This may be an awkward question but how much, well, freedom of movement of the chest is acceptable at work? I’m one of those ladies who finds 95% of bras uncomfortable and the ones that are comfortable too expensive. I’d love to show up in just a bralette (under my top, of course), but I’m not exactly flat-chested and I’m worried that I’d appear to be inappropriately dressed.

      1. Jessen*

        I actually saw that! A lot of it’s pricing issues. I don’t think I can afford to drop $50 on a custom-order bra. I’d love to show up in a bralette, but I’m worried my DDD+ cups would just look obscene.

        1. Susan*

          Oh… Yeah, I get that you don’t want to spend a lot. My personal opinion (which also seemed to be the general consensus on that post) is that a bralette should be fine, but it might depend on what you wear over it. If you wear tops that are on the loose side and not made of stretchy fabric, it shouldn’t be too noticeable. If you have a friend at work you can trust, maybe you can wear a bralette to work ask her if she thinks you look ok (and bring a spare bra in your purse just in case).

        2. Observer*

          One of the things you want to do is to shop for a god fit – a bra that feels off in the wrong fit, will feel like another whole ball game in the right fit. So, it pays to look around for a place that does that kind of stuff WELL.

          And, yes what you wear over your bralette is going to make a different. Snug tee-shirts? Probably a bad idea. Looser (not potato sack loose, necessarily) woven fabric? Probably ok.

    2. Karen*

      I just want to say that I’ve recently solved my issues at work regarding my bras.

      I am rather large chested and have always purchased either a push-up bra or one with very padded cups. It was starting to get really uncomfortable to have them up on display and was a disaster for some tops with lower necklines or buttons.

      In a fit of desperation I went to Walmart and found a bra in my size that was ‘full figured’ but the cups were made of a sheer material – no padding or foam. They are so comfortable because they allow my breasts to actually sit almost naturally on my chest… my husband can’t even be sure when looking at me if I am wearing a bra or not. Luckily the stretchy material keeps everything in place and looking modest when I’m walking about.

      The best part is that the bra was only $17… about half the price I paid for the uncomfortable bras I was accustomed to buying.

      1. Jessen*

        How do you find a genuine “full figured” bra at walmart? Most of the ones I’ve seen think a D-cup is “full figured.”

        1. Jessen*

          Basically, my issue seems to be that “full figured” means “D to DD cup, but in a larger band size.” Whereas what I’m looking at is a 32 band size and a DDD+ cup.

  183. Susan*

    There was a post here where this topic was discussed at length, and the comments also contain many brand and product recommendations for those who find bras uncomfortable (you are definitely not alone there). I will put the link in the next comment, or you can find it by searching for a post titled, “Is it unprofessional not to wear a bra to work?”

    2. Jessen*

      I did see it, actually! A lot of my problem is that it’s not just a comfort issue, but a price issue. So spending $50 on a bra when you make $30k a year and spend $5k a year just because your insurance is crap just isn’t going to happen.

      I’d love to show up in a cute little torrid bralette or something, but I’m worried that I’d be too jiggly to be appropriate.

  184. Wolfey*

    I just broke my right wrist (dominant hand) last Sat evening and took a week off my internship for pain, follow-up appointments, and pain med side effects. I got my cast yesterday after determining surgery wasn’t necessary right now and notified my office that I’d be in on Monday. The thing is, I cannot move my fingers and I am still in a lot of pain, for which I would like to take pain meds that make me woozy. My internship requires lots of typing and mouse manipulation for modeling programs..

    Now, I am only an intern for the summer and not an integral part of the firm. It would not matter to them whether I am there or not, but I still want to make a good impression. For an injury like this, at an internship or a regular job, what is normal in terms of taking time off?

    1. Undine*

      Good places understand that life happens, but under the circumstances, I might go in and talk to them face-to-face. Tell/show them what the problem is, say it’s more painful than you expected, and you need some more time.

      Do you have an intern coordinator? She might also have some good advice on how to handle this.

    2. Colette*

      Are there ways you can work without using that hand? I trained myself to use my opposite hand for the mouse in a couple of hours – can you try that? What about dictation software? Can you work half days for a little while?

      Your pain levels might go down in a couple of days now that it’s in a cast.

      I mean, if you can’t work, you should take care of yourself. But it’s worth thinking about whether there are accommodations that will let you be able to work so that you get the benefit of your internship.

      1. Bolt*

        I think it is worth a shot if one hand can be used. It turns it from ‘I absolutely can’t provide any value to you’ to ‘I’ll be operating a bit slower but still providing some value’.

        Also, it could result in a glowing reference that you came in and did your best even though it would be reasonable for you to have asked for more time off. Sadly taking the time off you need could also result in a mortifying reference that you took an excessive amount of time off.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I am not sure if swelling is still a problem. If it is, willow bark and ice will help bring down the swelling. Willow bark is the natural equilvant to aspirin. You can find it in some health food sections of larger grocery stores or you can find it at a health food store. Regular strength should do the trick.
      My friend broke her little toe and could not get a shoe on. This was a disaster because she supports her household in part by living off the land with food crops. She could not walk around out side with no shoes. I brought her some willow bark, and the next day she could gingerly get a shoe on her foot and get outside.

      I think if you get a doctor’s note that you cannot work, and giving them that documentation would show that you are sincerely concerned about the job. While it is true that it does not matter if you show up or not, your show of concern will resonate with people and it will work in your favor.

      It sounds like you only need a week or so and you will start to see improvements.

  185. Roma*

    I would like to move on from my current job by the end of the year, for a number of reasons, but primarily because I feel like I’ve gone as far as I can go at my company already. However, I am worried about how my boss is going to react because he takes it VERY personally when people leave – he behaved extremely poorly the last time someone left the department, including making demeaning comments about her to me and some other staff, and she was someone who he clearly didn’t like to begin with. He really values me as an employee, so I’m afraid of the backlash that I might receive when I leave. I know it shouldn’t matter because I’ll be leaving anyway, but I want to be able to count on positive references from him in the future, so I’d rather not burn any bridges.

    Our yearly performance evaluations are coming up in about a month, and he normally asks about where I see my career going. I’m thinking about bringing it up then and telling him that it’s because I intend to move into another industry, so that he feels less like I’m leaving him in particular (and also because it’s true). This is my first full time job out of college, so I’m hoping that he knows and somewhat understands that I might want to look into other fields early in my career. I feel like this could either soften the blow for when I do leave, or totally backfire and leave me fielding passive-aggressive comments and negativity for months, since I don’t plan to start job hunting seriously until the fall. I would really love some advice because I feel stuck. Should I even be considering trying to ease him into the idea of me leaving?

    1. Undine*

      No. If you are not even searching now, don’t bring it up. It will not make it better. If he takes it personally, it’s kinda like saying casually, “I might divorce you someday.” It also risks that he might start looking for reasons to fire you.

    2. Jessesgirl72*

      Yeah, don’t do that. If he takes it badly, telling him now will just prolong that- and if he takes it really badly, he will fire you.

      Nothing you can do willl make unreasonable people reasonable.

    3. Zathras*

      Should I even be considering trying to ease him into the idea of me leaving?

      No. You don’t have any control over your boss’s reactions or feelings. Don’t risk souring the relationship or getting pushed out before you’re ready over some mistaken idea that if you somehow do things exactly right, his reaction will be OK. People leaving jobs is a totally normal thing, if your boss can’t deal with it appropriately, that’s his problem to manage, not yours.

      Wait until you actually accept a new job, then give a reasonable notice period.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      When he asks about where you see your career going, ask him if he has any advice or thoughts on that for you.

      Once in a great while, if people feel like they are included, their behavior improves.
      Maybe you can massage his ego a bit by asking his opinion and that will lessen the fallout later on?

  186. Kerr*

    Consider it work time. I ran into the same issue, and was told to just mark my usual hour lunch, and clock the excess as work time. My reasoning is that it’s work-related, the timeline is dictated by the higher-ups (you can’t just leave!), and it’s supposed to be a treat and losing paid time is no treat.

  187. Cascading Carrots*

    I resigned without having another job to go to because I felt the environment was just too toxic. Now my manager wants to do an exit interview with me, but she is a lot of the problem so I don’t feel comfortable doing the interview with her. A previous manager (who agrees about the environment) has suggested I do a written review/form instead and sent me some examples.
    Two considerations
    1) If I do a written form, who should I send it to? I think just sending it to my manager, where it could stay with her and never go anywhere, is a bit pointless. But sending it to her boss(es) seems a bit aggressive to me.
    2) How much detail is too much detail? I could write pages of examples of poor behaviour by managers/directors. They already know I’m leaving because of the environment, so how much should I go into specifics?

    1. dawbs*

      Uh, I might be slightly paranoid, but being painfully honest in an exit interview isn’t something high on my list of ‘to dos’ (if they cared, they’d find out before people left and it wouldn’t be an ‘exit interview’ only thing).

      But the reality is that going into it *in writing* is extra horrifying. Saying it officially is risky enough, but in writing, you’ve got your name attached to this and have NO IDEA what happens to that information once it leaves your hnds.

      1. Cascading Carrots*

        My main reason for wanting to be honest is in the hope that it will help people I’ve left behind (who are also looking to get out, but can’t quit without a job to go to). But I don’t know how much it will really help if the people who get the information have no interest in addressing the situation. It might be a pointless exercise.

        I don’t know what could happen to the information- it’s not a tiny industry or anything and I would only say true things.

    2. Director of Things*

      If you want to be candid, is it possible to do this interview with HR instead of your immediate manager?
      If you don’t care about giving real feedback, just do it with your manager and say you’re excited to move on and explore what’s next for you.
      I wouldn’t worry as much as dawbs about it being in writing. If you are respectful, I can’t imagine how it could hurt you in the future (but maybe that’s my naturally optimistic nature coming through!). I would copy HR when you send it to your manager, less obnoxious than going to your boss’s boss.

      1. Cascading Carrots*

        Doing the interview with HR makes a lot of sense- I thought that was standard procedure, but my manager want to do it. I’m not sure who to contact, but maybe I can email the generic HR inbox and ask if they have a process/contact…

        When I told them I was resigning, I said it was because of poor culture and environment, and that I didn’t feel everyone was respected. I thought that was pretty heavy feedback, but hearing that, my manager wanted to get more details :S And not really sure how far to go…

  188. Tech Monster*

    My alma mater has this amazing sounding mentorship program that I applied for where I will be the person being mentored. It’s certainly something I will want to put on my resume if I get into it. But how would I do that? I’m not exactly volunteer experience right? But I think it shows potential networking connections and that I have invested time into professional development in my field. How would I put something like this on my resume?

    1. Chaordic One*

      I would be inclined to list it as part of your education along with relevant coursework and any relevant leadership positions or extracurricular activities you included, even if it is something going on after your graduation.

      However, I would imagine that there are several different ways for you to handle this.

  189. April Showers*

    I hire freelancers in my business to work random events. I’m “firing” one of them because he is late and does not let me know at all. He just shows up 20 minutes late with no warning, text, or explanation.

    Should I tell the rest of the group the reason that he was let go or keep it vague? What’s the modus operandi here?

    1. Director of Things*

      I’m normally for direct communication, but with freelancers, how often are they working the same events together? If they wouldn’t notice or the next event is a month+ away, I’m not sure I would say anything. If you think there will be gossip about the one who isn’t being re-hired, it may be worth saying, “Timmy will no longer be working with us.” They may have noticed he’s always missing the pre-event briefing or showing up later than anyone else.

  190. Fresh Faced*

    Does anyone have any advice for applying to an internship that list being in education as part of being an “ideal” candidate? I gradated last year, so don’t meet that but I hit every other point on the job description and this would be my first full time industry relevant job since graduating so I’m not exactly experienced. I’m still looking to apply because I’d really love to work for this company, but I have no idea how to address this in my cover letter. I don’t want to ignore it because it’s one of the first things that come up.

    1. Chaordic One*

      I would be inclined to omit the part of not being in the field of education. You should concentrate on promoting what you have going for you, your past work experience, your education and any past internships.

      If the question comes up in an interview, you might consider saying something along the lines of that you have great respect for the field of education and that you hope to get experience in that field in the future.

  191. emma2*

    OK I’m pretty late but am still giving it a shot:

    Has anyone suffered from something along the lines of “unemployment PTSD”… (not literally PTSD and I’m sorry if that is an inappropriate use of the term.) Basically, I recently got out of a very long period of job hunting. I am loving my new job and am significantly happier, but sometimes I am haunted by memories of the depressive period of unemployment, and sometimes become irrationally paranoid about my job security (I’ve been getting really good praise on my work so far so I don’t think I really have anything to worry about.) Is there any way to deal with this?

    1. Anna Held*

      Time is your friend. 6 months in you’ll feel more confident in your new role and have shaken off the unemployment dust. To hasten that focus on doing your best at your new job, including keeping track of things you’ve learned or achieved. That’s great not only for you, but to make sure you’re on track, help you at performance reviews, and add to your resume.

      I’d also update your resume and job materials yearly, starting now. Being proactive will make you more confident for the next time, even if it’s only that you’re being recruited, or decide to move cross country!

  192. Anony Mouse*

    I had it suggested to me that I consider looking into going into education technology (I’ve also seen it called instructional technology). I’ve been looking up descriptions of programs (I’m seeing most masters programs are offered online, which seems to be good for fitting in working full time) and what kinds of jobs people with a masters in educational technology go into, though I still feel like I only have a tenuous grasp of just what it is. Anyone have first hand experience?

    1. AnonAnon*

      I’ve only seen these degrees in higher education, either as an online instructional designer/LMS expert or as faculty in a Teacher Education program (but you’d likely need K-12 experience, as well). You may be able to work for an LMS or remote education company? It really depends on what else you’re bringing to the degree and where you’re coming from.

  193. thisisntmynameobviously*

    I know it’s a long shot to get feedback in the Friday post on a Sunday night, but I have a time-sensitive question that I haven’t found an answer to in the AAM archives:

    I have an interview for an internal job this week. The interview is with two people — one who would be my boss and one who is future boss’ peer at our other office. The awkward part of this is that Future Boss and I will be in a room together for the interview, which FB’s Peer will be joining us via conference call.

    I’m just a tad thrown off by this and would love any tips for how to handle this situation! Thanks!

  194. Stressed Out millennial*

    I need some advice about what to do with the recent departure of my company’s HR manager. I work in a very small non-profit with less than 20 employees. The HR manager quit about 2 weeks ago without finding a replacement. There was a round of staff panel interviews with 3 candidates that I participated in and no one was hired. There was an office debate about hiring a someone with 30 yrs experience in finance over someone else with less than 5 who was described by my colleagues as “erratic and unprofessional”. The more experienced candidate wasn’t liked by staff because he was too soft-spoken and ‘boring’.

    My issue is that the boss is totally incompetent and irrational. They have their office favorites and often place unrealistic expectations on departments for fundraising even though we have a department for that.

    Right now the only person holding things down is an unexperienced recent grad who has admitted to having anxiety attacks over this situation (they worked very closely with the HR manager) and two accountants. The boss is barely around and oblivious. They didn’t participate in group interviews; the staff basically said we have to suggest someone to hire who will basically pacificy the boss.

    I’ve been thinking about quitting for months before all of this and now this has worsened my anxiety because I have been here less than 1 year and it’s my first “real” job since graduating from school with my masters. The job doesn’t pay well and I don’t have much work experience for something better paying.

    I guess my question is what should I do in the meantime before finding a new job? It doesn’t help that the old HR manager was a personal acquaintance of the boss and the boss has a reputation of hiring people based off of friends’ recommendations. I’m worried the new HR person will be the boss’s “best friend” or someone so unstable that they will create fights (as was the case with previous HR persons here).

  195. help?*

    Hi everyone, not sure if people still check the open thread this late in the week , but I wanted to see if anyone has a sense of what the dress code would be at state attorney general’s office? Not as a lawyer, but as administrative staff. Thanks!

    1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I think staff or not, showing up in a suit your first few days won’t hurt (just take off your jacket and boom, you’re practically business casual). I suspect you’ll end up on the more casual end of business casual, but I imagine it depends on how tight the AG wants to run their ship. I worked at a state appellate court and the admins mostly dressed pretty casual, but unlike us clerks, they never interacted with the public.

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