open thread – July 20-21, 2018

by Alison Green on July 20, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. Emma*

    So, I’ve been gluten free for about a year & a half since getting diagnosed with celiac and for the most part everyone at the office has been great about it. My coworkers always let me know “oh I made sure to get a gluten free snack for you!!” whenever there’s going to be a meeting with food. And somehow the snack is almost always gf cookies of some kind and I just….am not a cookie-lover. I always say thank-you and take a cookie, but it kind of takes the excitement out of there ever being office food. It’s even less fun when it’s lunch or a full meal and the gf option is almost always less exciting than the regular food (all though of course I appreciate the fact that people are making an effort). I love food (and reeaaaally miss eating bread/pasta/pastries etc) and I want to try and feel a little less bummed about this. Any stories, tips, tricks, helpful anecdotes for being gluten-free by necessity in the office?

    1. Tangerina*

      Oh man, I have not advice just sympathy. My sister who I live with has had to go GF recently. I am doing my best to do it with her so it’s more instinctive to recognize what she can and can’t eat.

      Baby, GF is boring as heck! When I find exciting GF stuff, I load her up on it (the local famous bakery around here has added a second GF cupcake to the menu, and we were far too excited about a stupid cupcake). Tag onto that that she also can’t eat seafood, red meat, or anything fried, and she is bored to tears with food.

      We end up eating far too much ice cream and baked chicken.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Aw man, sounds like a friend of mine who also can’t eat anything, although it’s different stuff. She has to avoid sugars (and starches) as much as possible, so her diet is mostly meat and, like, greens.

        A LOT of people interpret this as her being gluten-free, and are like, “oh, we have these gluten-free things!!” and of course they have rice or corn flour that she can’t have! It’s just so annoying for her because nobody understands it (I try my best but I just don’t have that instinct like you mentioned) and you’re always having to scour menus at restaurants for something that might work, if you replace all the sides with something different and ask for no sauce and no cheese and…

        So yeah, she packs a lot of snacks in her purse.

      2. A tester, not a developer*

        Not sure if you’re looking for suggestions to cook at home, but I’ve found that game meats don’t have the same effect on me as beef, and the flavours are different enough to be interesting, but not so different as to be gross. For example, roasted quail is a lovely change from chicken, and if your sister can eat lamb then there’s a ton of yummy GF things to do with it.

        1. Tangerina*

          Interesting, I’ll have to try that. I know buffalo bothered her even worse than beef, but girl’s going to drop dead of iron deficiency

          (clearly that’s hyperbole. Vegans and vegetarians can be healthy)

          2. De-Archivist*

            If she’s actually iron deficient, she should cook in cast iron (non-enameled) if she doesn’t already. Cooking in cast iron adds dietary iron to food, and I totally Googled “gluten free cast iron recipes” just to see what pops up. There were actually quite a few.

            Not much help for OP’s issues with gluten free in the office, but if I can chime in with the rest of the thread, as someone who does de facto food ordering from time to time, I would welcome someone telling me what they actually want rather than having to guess or “you know what I like.”

      3. loslothluin*

        If you don’t have celiac, gluten-free is one of the worst “diets” to follow. Manufacturers replace the gluten with sugar, salt, and fat. It’s not a healthy way to eat unless yo have no choice.

        1. Specialk9*

          That’s the packaged food version. Plenty of people eat whole foods that are gluten free.

          1. loslothluin*

            It’s anything you buy that’s not fresh. It’s actually easier to go completely grain free rather than gluten free. I’ve yet to find a doctor that thinks gluten-free diets are good for anyone other than those diagnosed with celiac.

            1. Globetrotta*

              There’s actually a growing body of research indicating that there is non-celiac gluten sensitivity or that by avoiding gluten, people are avoiding the actual compound that is making them sick. For those of us with IBS that follow a low FODMAP diet, wheat is avoided, making tummies much happier. Because of the rest of the restrictions with the diet, most pre-packaged gluten free options are also out.

              Also, food is immensely personal. You can tell me that none of your doctors prescribe a gluten free diet, but if too many grains lead me to a unhappy belly, sleepless nights and spiked anxiety, well guess who is going to be avoiding grains.

              1. cyanste*

                That’s still a medical reason… people who don’t have to eat GF shouldn’t eat GF. People are missing out on a lot of vital nutrients and fiber that comes from wheat and other products. It’s better to eat a balanced diet.

                Just as a personal note, celiac sufferers tend to be misdiagnosed as IBS sufferers before getting correctly diagnosed.

    2. irene adler*

      Gluten-free here as well.
      Bring your own.
      Take the time to search out the gf snack options that you do enjoy. Then bring them in for yourself.
      Folks who are not gf just don’t get that the gf option isn’t as attractive/yummy as the one they bring in for the rest of the group.

      1. Admin of Sys*

        Seconding the option of byo. There are good gf things out there, but it takes time to find or make them, and the office is not going to know any better.
        That said, if there’s a regular meeting and the admin or whoever is setting up the food is getting something for you that you don’t like, you could always talk to them after a meeting. Say something like ‘I’m so glad you are accommodating my food allergy, but fyi, those particular rice cookies are just not my thing. Any chance you could get something from [list of things I like]?’ If you’re somewhere that has a restricted order-from list, you might be out of luck though. (State orgs are notorious for this – once place could only order snacks from Staples because then they were ‘office supplies’ rather than food)

        1. SoSo*

          Third in support of BYO. My mom had to go gluten free about 5-6 years ago and went through this same thing. She spent a lot of time trying out products and recipes to help fill the gap of losing out on breads and pasta, then would pack those to substitute whenever we needed. Her desk at work housed a loaf of GF bread for sandwiches, GF snack bars and breakfast pastries, and GF granola. It’s not uncommon to see her carry a little baggie of sliced GF bread into a restaurant or work, because she can just order her food without bread/bun, then assemble it herself.

      2. Blue Eagle*

        I disagree with “bring your own”. Obviously your co-workers want to be helpful to you. How about if you bring your own preferred snack on a day without a meeting and let your co-workers know what kind of snack you prefer. If they know about a couple of choices that you prefer, they are more likely to bring in what you prefer (at least that is what I would do for a co-worker who had a dietary restriction and didn’t like what I had gone out of my way to bring in for them).

        1. Karin*

          I agree with bringing your own on a non-meeting day. We bring in food for various occasions where I work. One of my coworkers keeps Kosher, and we’ve noted which brands of store-bought she likes and make sure to grab something we’ve seen her eat before. If the OP’s coworkers care that much about making sure s/he does not feel excluded, they’ll notice, too.

    3. ZSD*

      A co-worker has celiac disease, and event planners have been able to order him some at least comparatively interesting salads…though one time the place forgot and put croutons on, so he had to go hungry.
      One place even ended up having a gluten-free pasta option that was apparently quite tasty. My co-worker was delighted.

      1. JokeyJules*

        As someone who plans office events and lunches and has a GF coworker, I just ask her what she wants to do.
        It’s very simple. No pressure, we can cater to her needs or she will look at the menu and decide she’s going to bring from home that day.
        I get so happy for her when they have the GF pizza or pasta options!!

        1. DrWombat*

          I admit as someone with celiac, I love it when I get included re conference meals and office events. So far coworkers at my new job have just taken to going out to lunch most days and not inviting me – and one of them has family with celiac so it’s especially hurtful (then again, said coworker is also the grumpiest person in the dang office). Seconding bringing your own food though – I find mochi makes a good GF snack, but yeah, it’s hard *solidarity fistbump*

    4. Sabrina Spellman*

      I’m gluten free as well as generally lactose free because of the low fodmap diet so I definitely feel your pain. I’ve stopped relying on others to provide something for me and instead bring in my own treats/meals. Who knows better than yourself what you enjoy!

    5. Not in US*

      I’m also GF. Take a look into specialty bakeries and health food stores with a bakery. I find here (not in the US) we have a lot of restaurants that now offer GF options. How safe they are probably varies. I would also figure out what kind of snacks you like and then keep some on hand in your office or bring from home when this will apply. I don’t like cake (I’m also allergic to eggs) so when people make a big deal out of getting a cake I can actually eat – I’m kind of like ok, thanks…but pie on the other hand, I’m all over pie.

      1. P*

        I’m also GF. Bring your own is the best bet I’m afraid. It’s sweet when people try and accommodate, because I don’t really expect them to. But after 20+ years of this, I’ve just started saying, no thank you, I don’t like coconut macaroons. I know they are often the only GF treat available but I don’t actually like them, and its OK for me to politely refuse even after people have gone to an extra effort for me. So don’t be afraid to say no thank you if that’s what you want to do!

    6. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      You are the expert on your condition and your office. Can you research the restaurants that you usually order from and come up with something you like better? I assume you are the only GF person at the office so you could just say to the food-orderer “I don’t like salad X. Can you order GF wrap Y instead?” Or if the restaurants are the problem, it’s slightly more tricky but you could say “Do you mind ordering from Deli X instead of House of Gluten Y? Their GF options are much better. Otherwise if not let me know and I will pack a lunch.”

    7. Deryn*

      With the cookies, I don’t think it would be completely unreasonable to say something like, “Oh, that’s really sweet of you to think of me, but I’m kind of burnt on cookies/not much of a cookie person so I’m going to pass.” Or if you know an event where food is going to be served is coming up, I think you could definitely throw out a few (feasible) options to whoever is planning food. Maybe something like, “I know planning for dietary restrictions is really tough – X, Y, and Z are good options for me if they are available!”

    8. Sunflower*

      Can they just ask you what they want? My feelings are they probably actually prefer you telling them what you want! There’s probably not a non-awkward way to suggest that though- can you let someone at work your close with know and see if they can pass it along?

      1. Decima Dewey*

        I’d ask those who are trying to accommodate those who have gluten issues to actually try the supposed treat they’re getting. There are gluten free cookies that are delicious. There are also gluten free cookies that taste meh and crumble into dust as someone is trying to eat them.

        1. Autumnheart*

          Accidentally got a sandwich with GF bread instead of regular, and the bread dissolved into glue in my mouth. :6 I can’t imagine anyone being thrilled with that experience if they had an alternative.

    9. Admin of Sys*

      Oh, and re: gf pasta – I’ve found the thicker forbidden rice pad thai noodles make for decent fettuccine replacements, albeit the dark-blue/black color is hard to get used to. And whole foods has some surprisingly decent frozen gf cupcakes – the chocolate ones are to die for, albeit horribly overpriced.

    10. Shamy*

      I think so much has to do with people not knowing what is safe for you and since celiac sensitivities vary so greatly, I can see how it would be intimidating getting food for you. My coworker had quite severe celiac where even tiny amounts of cross contamination could make her sick. We threw her a bridal shower where only select few people made food for her and she was so excited all the food there was food that she could eat. Maybe you could make a point of mentioning everyday gluten-free foods you like that people don’t necessarily think of as gluten-free, like “I just had the most delicious deviled eggs” or “chocolate dipped strawberries are my favorite dessert.” I also agree with the commenter that said about bringing your own food in as well so people can see what other options are out there besides cookies. The fact that they want to include you and are thoughtful is a great thing, maybe they just need a bit more direction.

      1. Serenity2005*

        Definitely +1 on this. When it comes to dietary restrictions, especially medically necessary ones communication is so important. I’m not gluten free, but I do have some weird and random food allergies (cinnamon, barley among others). Usually if we do a food day my coworkers just straight ask me, “I’m thinking of bringing this, can you eat it?” If I say no, often they will try to plan something else including me in the planning, or I’m feeding myself that day. However the short version, I’ve personally found my coworkers to be very receptive of both what I can have and preferences.

    11. ket*

      For a while, for this type of thing I just went Paleo. (In some office environments this would not necessarily be the move to talk about, though!) The benefit of paleo is that you don’t eat any grains at all, and so you get to avoid terrible GF baked goods.

      On a home-cooking level, there are lots of great Paleo cooks online and they have delicious recipes that helped me expand my cooking repertoire. What was important to me was not the philosophy, but the focus on delicious foods that make you feel good rather than trying to replace things that you can’t have, and often ending up with underwhelming replacements. I also found that many commercial GF baked goods still gave me tummy trouble because of the starch load (FODMAP stuff going on, probably).

      In line with that, could you ask them to get fresh fruit instead?

      1. Rookie Biz Chick*

        Preach! Packaged GF is expensive and still over processed. Almond flour biscuits and flatbreads are my fav when things are busy and I’m not cooking full meals as much. I’m not full celiac, so I feel okay picking meats and cheeses off a sandwich buffet if that’s what’s available. This cloud biscuit recipe is super easy and tasty: https://fitmencook.com/keto-meal-plan/

    12. rosie*

      the office allergy struggle is SO real. I’m allergic to dairy and couldn’t even begin to count the number of times I’ve eaten a sad plate of lettuce when the rest of the office is digging into some pizza. I keep some safe snacks on hand for birthdays etc so I have something to eat that I know won’t make me sick.

    13. Inspector Spacetime*

      GF as well. I unfortunately can’t eat dairy or sugar either, so even when nice people specially get me a GF treat I usually can’t eat it. Sometimes I eat it anyway so they don’t feel bad and then feel sick later… It sucks.

      Seconding what people say about BYO. Eating out is hard but when you make your own food it can taste just as good. Pasta with rice noodles or zoodles is delicious.

      Sorry, I don’t have a lot of advice, just sympathy.

    14. Everdene*

      I am a home baker and often bring GF cakes into the office. I did thisa few times before letting people know they were actually GF. Also, encouraging ordering of fruit or crudits that are natuarally GF and can be shared.

      1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

        PLEASE tell people when snacks are GF! I can have gluten, but am severely allergic to tapioca, and tapioca flour is in almost all gluten free baked goods because of the texture and fact that it’s inexpensive. I have gotten extremely sick from eating something I assumed was fine only to find out after puking my guts out that it was GF and full of tapioca. Just because gluten is a common allergy doesn’t mean it’s the only one that should be accommodated.

        1. Everdene*

          I had no idea that was a thing! There are some oversharers in the team so tapioca has never been mentioned as an allergy. I’ll bear that in mind for other occasions though. Thank you

        2. MotherRunnee*

          For homemade goods, do you not ask whether there is tapioca in it? I’m thinking if i was severely allergic to something, it would be my responsibility to ask. Not being snarky, but i don’t think a baker needs to preemptively disclose every ingredient in their baked goods. I think the safest bet with a severe allergy is just to ask. People make replacements all the time in home baking, and there’s just no reliable way to guess about ingredients.

          1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

            I understand where you’re coming from, but tapioca is a very uncommon ingredient outside of bubble tea and pudding except for gluten free baked goods, so until being GF became very common, I never had to worry about it. I always ask when I know something is GF or an unfamiliar Southeast Asian dish, but if I just see slices of cake I usually don’t ask because 99% of the time it’s just regular cake made with wheat flour.

    15. pcake*

      I’m allergic to wheat, but luckily the current gluten-free diet fad means there’s gluten-free bread, pizza and other goodies at most stores. All the stores around me also have rice pasta and other gluten-free options including lentil, and if you don’t live near any stores that carry them, Amazon has them as well as gluten free stuffing, breads and more. Blaze pizza has a gluten-free option (they’ll treat it more carefully if you let them know you have a medical condition) as does Disneyland and many other places.

      By the way, after my two favorite gluten-free breads were discontinued, I started baking. There are many gluten-free flours on the market, and if you don’t feel like baking from scratch, Krusteaz (and several other brands, but they’re my personal favorite and the mixes are cheap on Amazon) offer corn bread, pancake brownie and other mixes where you only throw in an egg, some milk, mix and bake.

      I suggest bringing your own treats to these things so you’re seen eating them. I no longer accept food from well-meaning friends or co-workers as several times they’ve misunderstood an ingredient and I ended up pretty sick.

    16. SuspectedDragon*

      Another GF person here. Definitely talk to the admin or whoever gets food for meetings and let them know what works for you. Personally, I prefer to go without or pack my own than eat a cookie that tastes like cardboard and sadness. This could also be a way to push for healthier snacks in the office overall? Being the only person with carrots while everyone else digs into their beautiful pastries is not fun. But if everyone is snacking on veggies or fruit, you don’t feel like the odd one out and everyone can collectively avoid the sugar crash. YMMV though, depending on office culture and how much you feel like dealing with that.

      Side note – Trader Joe’s has a fantastic brown rice pasta. Tastes good, doesn’t disintegrate, and reheats decently.

      1. AnonInfinity*

        I second getting with the admin who orders food – but would recommend THOROUGHLY explaining your needs. Early on into my GF adventure, I was invited to a working lunch meeting on site. the admin mentioned they were ordering boxed lunches from the company’s catering service, and I emailed her and said, “Can you see if Caterer has gluten-free wraps? I can’t have gluten. If not, I’ll bring my own lunch. Thanks!” She was great about it and made the arrangement.

        Well. The box was marked “GF.” The wrap was gluten-free. And I assumed everything else was, but, no, it was not. The rest of it was regular, wheat-based food without ingredients listed on it; I assumed it was GF; I ate it; and I had a bad couple of days. But I asked for a gluten-free wrap, and that’s what I got. I learned to be specific and to never, ever assume.

    17. Logan*

      I have a celiac friend, and one complaint has been that the gf snacks tend to be ‘lesser’ versions of favourite foods, so it’s a weird reminder of how their diet is a problem. As a result I have made an effort to find good food which happens to be gf (as an example macaroons have no flour), and if I am hosting a meeting then I also bring veggies or fruit (the ‘healthier option’ thing happened long before the gf request, yet it works well for everyone).

      I have found, though, that celiac can often have other food aspects beyond gluten (including dairy, eggs, nightshades, lentils, etc) so my friends and family with food problems have all ended up bringing their own food, as it’s just easier for them.

    18. Zip Silver*

      I don’t eat during the day. Gym in the morning, breakfast afterwards, nothing but water and black coffee from 8am until 6pm, then dinner. Works out quite well and if you have people trying to push food on you then you just say that you aren’t hungry.

      1. Autumnheart*

        By any chance are you a man? I only ask because women tend to get a lot “hangrier” after about 10 hours of intermittent fasting than men do. YMMV and there’s no reason for women not to give it a shot (assuming no health-related contraindications), just kind of expect to be grouchy by the end of the fasting part of the day.

        1. Zip Silver*

          Yep, I’m a guy. It 100% started as a way to quit snacking at the office and it’s worked out smashingly. Easy way to restrict calories and still eat full meals. Can’t speak to how women are on IF, but I feel alive with energy all day. No more post-lunch crash at 2pm

    19. Artemesia*

      No advice at the office. I think you just have to stock up treats you like and hope for the best and if possible steer the person ordering lunches or actually find out what their vendors have you like. I have a somewhat restricted diet and the food I can eat sucks; I so miss enjoying food so I feel for you.

      We have friends who are gluten free and when we have dinner parties, it is not that hard to create good stuff without gluten. But for restaurant food, they are not going to do the standards without and so you end up with specialty food that is not all that good.

    20. Utoh!*

      Hi Emma!
      Since your coworkers are so open to making sure they get a gluten-free snack for you, but it’s not one you enjoy, get involved in the process! Let them know you appreciate their thinking about you, and offer some suggestions so they aren’t just picking the first GF item they think you’ll like. I don’t know the first think about celiac disease or eating GF, so I would appreciate being educated about what someone would like to eat so they don’t feel excluded.

    21. nonymous*

      I’m not gf, but when I prepare potluck items when I know someone with celiac disease might be present, I avoid the gf substitutes. So I might bring a flavored popcorn or charcuterie or a fruit & veg tray or chocolate – all GF, but very mainstream ingredients.

      Frankly, while there are recipes that I am happy to iterate to perfection, potluck situations are just not one of them, and figuring out how to use rice flour in western baking can be tricky. If I know someone has a very severe allergy, whatever I bring will come straight from a store in prepackaged form, because I know my kitchen is likely contaminated.

      1. Thursday Next*

        Yes to the last sentence—OP, people might be defaulting to the cookies because they’re packaged and labeled and “safe.” Whatever you can do in terms of planning (which snacks or dishes are good, which brands, etc.) or even just bringing in a stash of goodies yourself to choose from when the whole office seems to be pausing for a snack will be helpful.

      2. AnonInfinity*

        Watch out for chocolate! Many of the milk chocolates not only are processed with gluten-containing foods, but actively contain gluten. For example, Lindt’s truffles are made with barley malt. I learned the hard way. (Those were my FAVORITE!) :)

    23. Ms MicroManaged*

      Fellow GF girl over here! I like to have fresh fruit at meetings, it’s healthier and naturally GF. You could find a good local baker, or order over the interwebs too. Or bake – I find lots of recipes on Pinterest that are naturally GF – using almond flour, meringues, “raw food” recipes, etc. as sometimes those cup-for-cup flours turn things a little gummy. Check out cookbooks from the library, esp Silvana Nardone’s (sp?) Cooking for Isiah – those banana donuts are sooooo yummy!!

    24. RightsaidFed*

      Make a gluten free angel food cake, or a flourless chocolate cake and keep slices in the office freezer (wrapped in foil, marked “meatloaf”) Then if the office is having cake and fruit, you can pull out your angel food slice and top it off. With the flourless chocolate cake, if you make it and share it — people will want that recipe.
      Chocolate covered strawberries can also be frozen. (marked “roasted beets”)
      Also good for non-dessert food, is to keep a bag of 90-second microwave rice in your desk. Easy enough to strip a roasted veggie sandwich of its veggies and eat in your bowl of rice.

      2. Rachel B.*

        If you are making flourless chocolate cake, make sure to make a raspberry or blueberry sauce too! Frozen berries, simmered with a little sugar and a shot of lemon juice, assuming those don’t give you trouble for other reasons. Keep it separate from the cake until ready to eat, though, don’t try to freeze them together.

        Do be careful with the veggies off the roasted veggie sandwich, as sometimes that can be enough contamination, depending on how sensitive you are to gluten. I can tolerate very minor crosscontamination (we only have one toaster, f’r instance) but cannot eat ANY regular soy sauce–something about the fermentation makes it much, much worse for me. This is definitely one of those “your mileage may vary”, and you may not know until you try something.

    25. Anna*

      I may have some advice. Who is the person doing the buying? Does it change often or is it the same person? If it’s the same person, you can go up to them/IM and say hey I appreciate you buying this but actually I’m really trying to cut back on sweets! Or if it’s a lunch thing, and they’re buying for a group, maybe say hey can I choose something instead when you order? Aside from that, I feel your pain about luncheon things. My office does weekly lunches during the busiest time of the year and sometimes the gluten-free option is terrible. And I tend to get a cookie during birthday celebrations too (or nothing). The only other idea I have for luncheons is maybe bringing something to add TO the lunch, I tend to do that.

    26. Anna*

      Oh and also, if it helps my office has treats every pay period. I am left out 100% of the time.

    27. Cowgirlinhiding*

      I keep a running file on interviews we give. Thirty of ninety-one people that we scheduled for an interview didn’t show up, out of those that were not given an offer. We have people that fill out all of their paperwork (we have their drivers license and SS#) then never show up for the first day of work – What the heck, I would at least stop in and get my personal information back!!!

    28. AnonInfinity*

      I’m Celiac – symptoms for 1.5 years, diagnosed for a little while now. My coworkers have been less accommodating and still think it’s a dietary choice. So.

      However, knowing where gluten hides in food (e.g., you THINK grilled chicken is safe, but it’s been sitting in a marinade of wheat-containing soy sauce for a few hours; corn mixes sound like they’re corn-based, but wheat is often used in it – these are things average people don’t know about), I don’t think I’d ever trust anything someone else brought for me to eat. And I don’t. I rely on something like, “Thanks, but I’m still figuring out what I can have or not have.” I really just don’t eat snacks at work, discuss food at work, or mention the food brought to work. It’s not even on my radar anymore. And I think I’d go crazy if my coworkers started trying to bring me food to eat – no. Thinking about that literally makes me anxious.

      For what it’s worth, although I hate being so sensitive to something so pervasive, and it’s entirely awful when I accidentally encounter gluten, and people roll their eyes at me at restaurants (yep), I actually love being gluten-free. It challenges me to cook more, try new ingredients, and eat fresher food; I feel better than I ever have. Temptations don’t even exist for me anymore, because when I think of fast food available and all the doughnuts/baked goods brought into work, none if it sounds good – because it’s so not worth what would happen if I had it. I don’t even touch the GF aisle at the store, to be honest, even though some of it’s pretty tasty.

      If you haven’t tried Canyon Bakehouse bread, you might like it. I liked it better than any regular bread I’d ever had. But, alas, I got tired of buying expensive bread mainly for breakfast, and now I slather my almond butter on cheap rice crackers – even better! :)

    29. LurkieLoo*

      Our household is 98% gluten free. One member is intolerant (not medically diagnosed) and the rest of us limit our intake just because the cook is lazy and doesn’t want to prepare more than one meal.

      The biggest thing that helps us as a family is to NOT substitute gluten-like substances for gluten. We very rarely have gluten free pasta, for example. We have switched to rice or potatoes (predominantly) for our starchy sides. The blue diamond rice and almond crackers are awesome and happen to be gluten free. We eat a lot of plain corn chips. Corn tortillas and lettuce leaves are good for wraps (instead of sandwiches).

      We went to a friend’s house for Thanksgiving and she wanted to know what drinks were gluten free. I think some people just do not even think about it so when they DO think about it, they are looking at things that are marketed gluten free. In doing so, they forget about the thousands of things that are easily gluten free. Like vegi platters, salad, quinoa, fruits, rice (just NOT soy sauce), quite a bit of candy, etc.

      Our family member who is intolerant always brings a favorite something for gatherings. Then there will always be at least one thing gluten free and enjoyable.

      For the office specifically, Mexican food is pretty easy gluten free. Most of the menu is naturally gluten free. Indian food also has quite a few naturally gluten free options. Maybe you could research places that are similar to ones that normally get ordered from and make some suggestions. So many restaurants are getting better at their gluten free options.

    30. I have ideas*

      I have been GF since 2012, I am also lactose free and soy free. I always carry a snack (Lara Bar) in my purse and I always take my lunch to work. When there is a meeting and food has been ordered for everyone (not always GF), I will have some of the salad (we ask for dressing on the side in case it has gluten) or fruit.
      When going to friends or family – I make sure they are aware and use GF seasonings for everything. Also I always take a dish that I know I can eat (just in case).
      There are lots of really yummy GF options available. Here are some GF brands that I recommend:
      Simple Mills crackers, Gluten Free Explorer Artisan Bakers (love their pizza crust and breads) Go Raw bars, Lara Bars, Go Macro bars
      For Recipes, Websites that I recommend:
      gluten free goddess, there is life after wheat, gluten free on a shoestring, paleo running momma, elenas pantry, paleo effect.

    31. Gatomon*

      For me, I am usually forgotten unless I speak up. If there’s going to be a pizza party at work I have to ask where they are ordering from — too many people to remember. Unfortunately with a lot of conferences/trainings I’ve been to, no one bothers to send out the meal plan/ask in advance, so I pack my own now. If it’s a big conference I’ve found the GF option tends to be salad, which I loathe. In those situations I just assume I’ll be eating out of my bag.

      I think it’s great that they’re trying, but I think it’s okay to suggest a substitute item that is more palatable to you.

    32. loslothluin*

      I’ve been diagnosed with celiac for 5 years, and it was a PITA when I first started. I always had to remind myself just how bad it feels to eat gluten anything. Now, I’m used to it, and I just ignore what other people are eating. Once you’ve been gluten free for a while, it’s amazing how terrible it feels to have anything with gluten in it. Learned that the hard way when I wanted a cheese biscuit and paid the price shortly thereafter. It clicked just how awful I felt and had no idea that I could feel any better. After that, it was much easier to decline any kind of food I wasn’t sure about being gf or not.

      For me, I’ve found that going paleo was easier than gluten free. It’s basically hormone free meat and fresh fruits and veggies.

      I highly recommend Wheat Belly and the Good Gut. They’re excellent sources about gf.

    33. blammobiddy*

      I’m gluten-free and dairy-free, also for medical reasons, and I can sympathize! I appreciate it when coworkers try to accommodate me and my dietary restrictions, but GF/DF can be boring and terrible if you don’t know what to look for. Most of the time I just tell people not to worry because I’m too high-maintenance now, and I don’t want to put anyone else out. I find that having good humor about it helps. I also made a point to say that I was really trying to eat better in general, so now when people do bring snacks for me, it tends to be something like fruit or nuts – things that are easy to get and really hard to screw up.

      1. loslothluin*

        I miss cheese. At least at my job now, they let me pick the place to eat for the holiday party due to the gluten free/dairy free diets. The one time they picked a place who assured them there were gf/df foods. Turns out the restaurant’s idea of gf/df was a salad with no dressing on it.

    34. Wishing You Well*

      I am sorry you have celiac.
      I was mis-diagnosed with celiac and went gluten-free for 10 years until the doc said “Oopsy, you don’t have celiac”. The diet was terrible. Little did I know that diet was just the training wheels for an even worse medical diet. Now I’m REALLY restricted – where the short list is what I CAN have. The only drink I can tolerate is water. WATER. Cheating on the diet causes physical, hours-long pain. (I have a diagnosis – it’s not in my head.)
      My advice is to supply your own snacks. Keep them at your desk (locked up, if you have food thieves). Bring out a snack you know is safe when others are having snacks. Don’t have others get you snacks they THINK are safe. Well-intentioned mistakes make me sick or make others irritated with me when I won’t eat what they offer. My relationships with others is better when I spare them my medical problems and take care of my diet myself.

    35. Rachel B.*

      Garden Lite blueberry-oatmeal muffins. They are sold frozen, and you can keep them at work (preferably in an ugly brown paper bag) and nuke one any time you get too wistful for the days when you “could eat cookies”. I understand, I definitely do! There are also some decent GF flours: Namaste is the best I have tried so far. You can also mix your own: coconut flour, almond flour, glutinous rice (has no gluten in it at ALL), and corn flour (not cornstarch, cornflour). I recommend Bob’s Red Mill for the individual flours; sadly, not for their GF mixture.

      A little prep goes a long way toward NOT feeling sorry for yourself! Oh, and carry your own tamari wheat-free soy sauce when you go for sushi! I recommend San-J organic tamari because it’s easy for me to get, but there are other good ones (be sure to put the little bottle in a GOOD ziploc-type bag). A large purse covers a multitude of sins!

    36. cyanste*

      Honestly, as a fellow Celiac, I don’t even take any food offered by my coworkers… who knows what kind of environment those cookies were made in! Done side by side with wheat flour? Contaminated. ugh…

      I think what I try to do is really look for office sweets that are celiac friendly, like candy, that people tend to have or use. Or soda. Something that we all eat/drink that is safely made and safely able to drink.

  2. Tangerina*

    Tl;dr My manager is stubborn and makes my team look bad. Do I keep trying to persuade my manager to do the right thing, or wait for her to get ordered by an executive to do it?

    How do you folks handle it when your manager makes a decision you completely disagree with and goes against the team’s Customer Service values (but is not illegal or immoral)?

    For example, if IT person Amanda is in charge of the Apple Pickers in Arlington, so we grant her visibility and ability to take action on that group. Due to a shift in business, for the next six months half of the group in Arlington will operation under the Baking business unit in Buffalo, supported by IT person Bonnie
    My manager refuses to grant security access to Bonnie to employees in Arlington, saying that Bonnie will just have to go to Amanda to get Amanda to do the work instead.

    It only takes SECONDS for my team to grant access to BOTH Bonnie and Amanda. Bonnie and Amanda AND their managers (who are President level) have given us approval to do this. But my manager (and therefore my team) is refusing to budge, sticking to the rigid view that Arlington belongs to Amanda, so Amanda will keep the access and Bonnie will have none (even though Amanda really shouldn’t be acting upon employees in the Baking business unit no matter WHERE they sit).

    This is not the first time my manager has dug her heels in. Eventually an executive will bring the hammer down, and my team will be forced to grant Bonnie access. I see it coming from a mile away.
    Do I keep advocating for Bonnie to get access, or just accept my manager’s direction like a good soldier while Bonnie and Amanda struggle with this unnecessary hindrance to their work?

    1. Sarah Simpson*

      Much as I hate to say it, my suggestion is to stay out of it – you’ve offered your opinion, and if you are the one to push back, well, pushing back is the part that people remember, not whether or not it was for the best, especially if you’re pushing against your boss. When there is an issue and the power is not on your side, you need to decide if this is the battle that is so important you need to be the one to fight it.

      1. Artemesia*

        This. You have made yourself clear. The boss said ‘no’. Let it fall on the boss. I empathize as I always wanted to do things right too, but it rarely pays to be more invested than the boss in doing it right.

        1. SierraSkiing*

          Yep. If you push too hard against your manager when he’s made a decision, however shitty, you’ll get fired for not doing what he says. And then you won’t be around for the sweet, sweet day when he finally gets fired for not doing what the presidents say.

      2. Tangerina*

        Yes, I think you’re right. My customer service bone itches, but it is what it is!

    2. Clorinda*

      This sounds so scary. If there’s any chance that the executive might bring the hammer down on all of you, not just the stubborn manager, you might look at ways to cover yourself, whatever that looks like–cc’ing Bonnie on an email to your manager asking for access, or something. The danger is that if you go too far, you risk alienating the manager and being in trouble before the hammer drop. Is there any way you can do so kind of internal transfer and get out of the King’s Landing office until the mess is over?

      1. Tangerina*

        If they company were stable I’d consider that. But I get the feeling it’s a sinking ship. On to the next job!

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Let your manager get hammered. They’re the ones causing the problem, they need to get the consequences.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Just make sure you document – ie, that you have mentioned your recommendation in an email.

      3. Tangerina*

        Yes, true. In the end, you do what you’re told (Except I would heartily disobey a manager asking me to do something illegal)

    4. BillieB*

      Ahhh, the joys of bureaucracy. Like others have said, if it’s your boss’ call, and you’ve done all you can to influence the decision, then you will need to accept the decision. However, CYA is the goal at this point. You can (and should) express your concerns where the decision goes against Customer Service values. If this is done over email, so there is a paper trail, then it’s an effective CYA technique. So if/when the hammer does come down, what needed to be said was said. Just be sure to keep your communication fact-based and tied to company values, and be willing to accept whatever decision your boss makes.

      Alternatively, your boss may have a good reason to maintain tight controls on access. Sometimes you risk opening up the flood gates if you grant access to Bonnie and then Cliff and David start asking too. A line has to be drawn somewhere to keep things under control, and your boss may have good reason for her decision.

  3. Construction Safety*

    Workers are ‘ghosting’ interviews, blowing off work in a strong job market

    Link in reply

      1. A person*

        I was cringing at the guy who started doing group interviews to make applicants “want the job more”!

        1. The New Wanderer*

          For me the eye roll was for the 27 yr old who said he didn’t cancel an interview because people already think millenials are entitled… and then seems to make the argument that he shouldn’t have to pay dues by showing up? I don’t even know.

      2. neverjaunty*

        I don’t doubt that there may be more interviewees ghosting than in a strong economy, but this article is kind of a vague trend piece. “A growing number” of applicants? “Many businesses”?

        1. Manders*

          Yeah, I have some serious doubts about whether some of the people quoted in this article should be considered experts on employment trends. Like this guy:

          At JFuerst Real Estate Photography, a Minneapolis firm with 11 employees, four job candidates haven’t shown up for interviews in the past two years, CEO Johnny Fuerst says. So Fuerst has been holding initial interviews with groups of up to 30 applicants for roles such as photographers and receptionists.

          “I was trying to mitigate my wasted time,” he says. With such a large contingent of candidates, “I don’t care if half show up.” He says the setting also creates a competitive atmosphere that makes interviewees want the job more. He then winnows subsequent interviews to progressively smaller groups.

          I wouldn’t take this guy’s advice on hiring in any economy. And at least one of the “ghosters” quoted in the piece didn’t actually ghost, he called to cancel an interview after realizing the job wasn’t a good fit for him.

          2. She She*

            4 in 2 years??? We had 4 ghost us just last week. And yes, we’re in construction and paying well above the norms for this area.

            1. The New Wanderer*

              Uh yeah – if he can get 30 applicants in one go in order to interview them as a group, then 4 ghosting over two years is a very small problem. His wasted time is vastly overrated, and since the most qualified will most likely walk as soon as they see a group situation, he’s really not getting as high quality applicants as he’d think.

            2. Triple Anon*

              Right. And there will always be a few people who overslept or got the date wrong or made some other type of mistake and then just abandoned their application instead of calling to apologize. Four of those in two years sounds about right.

    2. Laurelma_01!*

      The strong job market is misleading in some aspects. It doesn’t take in consideration people that have ran out of unemployment benefits or are being underpaid. I recalled reading something about that awhile back, but not sure where. Something about more service oriented jobs, but lower pay. Maybe someone recalls the article.

      1. The Original K.*

        I think I read that a lot of the newly created jobs are temporary. Contract jobs, gig economy jobs, etc.

        1. irene adler*

          Yep. So the dollars per hour are higher, but the lack of benefits really offsets that. Sometimes to the degree that one is earning less money than prior job(s).

      2. krysb*

        Even the U-6 numbers, which account for underemployed workers and those who dropped out of the market for reasons unrelated to age or disability (shadow unemployment), shows the unemployment rate at 7%. That’s pretty low.

      3. Triple Anon*

        Exactly. My impression is that there are more jobs, but working conditions are worse, or at least less predictable. And I see a lot of “millennials” complaining about low pay and lack of good job prospects, so the ghosting millennials thing is not the whole story.

    3. King Friday XIII*

      Ghosting on call center jobs is absolultely nothing new no matter how strong the job market.

      I’m not familiar with the carport business, though. =P

      1. Artemesia*

        The one thing businesses are not willing to do when they have trouble hiring is pay people more. Wages are flat for most jobs and then businesses whine about not finding that person with the masters and 10 years experience who will come work for them for $12 an hour.

        1. Chriama*

          Yup! It’s like the HR version of the IT Crowd’s “did you try turning it off and on again?” — “Did you try offering them more money?”

        2. Antilles*

          +1
          That’s always my response too. When you say “we can’t find qualified people to work”, you should be ending the sentence with “…at the price we’re willing to pay”.
          There is no law-abiding job in the US so onerous that you *couldn’t* eventually fill it if you just kept raising the salary offered.

          1. De-Archivist*

            This.

            I worked in retail/service for many years and heard repeatedly about how terrible the applicant pool in “this area” is. I’m like have you thought paying more that minimum wage for people you expect to provide knowledgeable, competent service to customers? Even Big Box Blue and Big Box Red pay more than this. ‘Well, you know our buying power … and cost of goods for … mumble … wish we could offer more … but … mumble, mumble, mumble … great discount for employees …

            Ugh.

        3. Leela*

          I used to recruit for organizations like that and it was AWFUL. Hiring managers insisting that the person who refilled the candy bowl and answered phones had a college degree for no reason at all but wouldn’t pay more than 12 an hour in a very expensive tech hub, then sat there pulling their hair about how I couldn’t fill the role. Bonus for this hiring manager being someone who got that job before those requirements and couldn’t possibly have gotten it with the same credentials and experience if they tried to get the job now.

          1. Anonymosity*

            I saw a job ad for Lowe’s the other day (the home improvement store). They were looking for a full-time cashier. Associate’s degree preferred.

            For a cashier. FFS.

        4. Beth Anne*

          YES! There’s a job I recently saw they want you to have a CPA a bunch of experience but only pay like $30,000.

          The way workers are being underpaid right now is so sad. :(

        5. Lora*

          YES.

          Similarly, I will never ever understand why universities actually change their degree programs and departments just because some CEO is whining about not being able to find qualified applicants. Just say “yeah, that sucks dude” or “cool story bro” and move on with life. If they want qualified applicants and training programs that badly, they will create the training programs themselves.

          I always point to petroleum engineering and Maersk’s shipping / logistics schools when this happens: employers needed people, so they became willing to train geologists, physicists and other types of STEM grads to become petroleum engineers when it was a boom time for them. Maersk couldn’t find enough people with the unique training for logistics and ex-Navy folks who knew how to navigate, so they created their own training schools.

        6. WorkerBea*

          Yup. This is partially why the job I left a year ago is still open. I occassionally get emails from recruiters for this job, offering 2/3 below the market rate at best for a contractor limited to working 2 years tops, not even a perm job. At my level, that a difference of many10s of thousands of dollars annually. In a competative market in a high CoL area, it’s laughable and completely out of touch to continue to operate this way. I know in my search, I immediately ruled out any company that gave such lowball ranges up front. It gave me an unfavorable impression of the company right from the get go. I’m talking huge global corporations with multi-billions in revenue, not start-ups. I have LOLed hard at some of the salary expectations. They want 10+ yrs experience and advanced degrees but at an entry level payrate. Um no. Not when a half dozen other companies on the same block are happy to pay at market!

        7. Courageous cat*

          Yes this is so profoundly irritating for me. I am looking for entry-level jobs in new industries and so many of these jobs are like, part-time jobs that pay $13/hour, but require 2-3 years of experience and a degree in the field! It’s insulting to the people who have that kind of experience and are worth much more than that.

        8. Triple Anon*

          Yeah. Who the heck thinks of group interviews before raising the pay or offering better benefits? If they can’t afford to pay more or offer better benefits, I’m sure they could come up with something. Extra vacation time, flexible hours, opportunities to learn new skills . . . Anything that’s a tangible part of the actual job and not the interview process.

      2. Duffman*

        We did have an all time best of 6 call center no shows out of 20 new hires this week, though.

    4. CupcakeCounter*

      My husband has been having a lot of this. He is hiring for a job that takes quite a few months of training to really get it and people are leaving within the first few weeks. There are a ton of manufacturing jobs at the moment in my area and these people are leaving for those. Hubs’ jobs pay better and are direct hire in with full benefits starting day one but are definitely a bit more difficult than a traditional factory job (which are all temp to hire).

    5. Antilles*

      Of course, there’s a blindingly obvious solution to being ghosted by employees:
      Offer. More. Money.
      The people who are ghosting on your job aren’t doing so out of malice or spite, it’s because your job/pay is crappy enough that it can (and was) easily topped by someone else.

      1. Grayson*

        I saw an entry level position that required a bachelors and 10 years experience. I lost my brain.

        1. WalkedInYourShoes*

          Yes, those are unrealistic. I know one Big TeaPot Company requires a master’s before they would consider anyone for an administrative position. As you can guess, the candidate lands it, but immediately starts interviewing for other better roles aligned to the person’s master’s degree and leaves after 6-9 months.

          1. irene adler*

            Yet, I read -at another work place advice web site- that hiring those who are over qualified is a big no-no. For the reason you just cited- they will split as soon as something better comes along. Hence, employer is better off not hiring the over qualified.

            Yet, here one company is doing just that. Kinda puts the lie to the low unemployment figures if there are folks who will take the job for which they are overqualified to do.

            1. SierraSkiing*

              Having watched my fiancee, who just got their master’s, hit the job market: it’s partially that people with a master’s are usually trying to get a very specific type of job in a very specific type of industry. Because there’s fewer of these specialized positions overall, if you miss one or two jobs that are hiring, it may take a while to find another opportunity that is what you trained to do. So my partner is doing the “work a job they’re overqualified for while waiting for more field-specific positions to open up” strategy. It’s either that, or run out of money, or ditch their chosen career altogether. But they’ve been the second or third choice on a couple good jobs now, so I have hope that they’ll find a position that uses their degree soon!

        2. irene adler*

          Sooooo, the 22-year-old recent college grad has to have started work at age 12? No doubt working full-time at the job-right?

          Alrighty then.
          So where are these 12-year-olds being hired so that they can obtain said decade of experience?

    6. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      Well, at least I’m in good company! I hire for a warehouse, and it’s pretty typical to have about 50% no show for interviews. What I don’t think they realize is that I keep track of that (thanks, Indeed!) so that when they apply again (which is incredibly common), I know not to call.

    7. Phoenix Programmer*

      Meh. Companies signaled that ghosting on applicants is an acceptable communication strategy so should not be surprised applicants are now doing it to them.

    8. Quickbeam*

      In nursing, when there is an acute shortage (which isn’t always) this happens all the time. Or people saunter in saying “when do I start” wearing flip flops and cut offs. It’s definitely an employee shortage behavior.

    9. Tangerina*

      Ghosting his such wretched behavior, whether it’s dating, friendship, work, whatever.

  4. FaintlyMacabre*

    I suspect the answer is no, but…

    I had an interview and afterwards one of the interviewers walked out of the building with me. He asked if that was my car and I said yes. Then he asked me a couple of questions about it and we had a quick conversation about the pros and cons of that particular vehicle. I have already written my thank yous, but I was wondering, would it have been at all okay to use that outside convo in the thank you? Something along the lines of, “like the Chevord Pachyderm I am extremely reliable,” or “just as a Nissaru Hummingbird gets great mileage, so too can I turn a small amount of money into a great project.” Or does incidental talk not related to the job just not belong in a thank you note whatsoever?

      1. Murphy*

        I would agree. Unless there was some natural way to work it in or an obvious follow up (“Here’s the contact info for that great Subevy agent I mentioned” [assuming they seemed interested]) I’d leave it out.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Yep, it’s overkill. The interview had a casual conversation with you and got a sense of how you would be in a more relaxed situation. Sounds like you did fine. It was actually good that you did not say that in the email.

      3. PB*

        This. I wouldn’t mind a quick reference to the conversation, along the lines of “I enjoyed meeting you and talking about the position and the Chevord Pachyderm,” but even that feels a little forced.

    2. Temperance*

      I would definitely not do that unless you had the sort of personality to make it into a joke. I would be put off by it, FWIW.

    3. Afiendishthingy*

      I think an offhand reference to a personal conversation could be totally fine in your follow-up/thank-you note, but the examples you gave come across to me as really forced and a little gimmicky.

      1. Emi.*

        Yeah, a “…and good luck with your car decision!” or something would make sense, but this seems awkward.

        1. earl grey aficionado*

          I was just going to say that adding an aside like this (“good luck with your car decision”) would be perfect. It’s brief, a genuinely nice sentiment, and something that could help jog their memory about you. But the examples you wrote in your comment would make me roll my eyes–I could practically hear a “womp womp” or “ba-dum-tiss” in my head.

          So it’s not so much that incidental talk doesn’t belong in thank you notes (in fact, it can be a great way to make them not sound rote) but that it has to sound natural and professional instead of corny.

          1. earl grey aficionado*

            Well, maybe “perfect” is too strong a word. I think there are potentially stronger things you could put in your thank you note. But I just wanted to affirm Emi’s example of a more natural-sounding way you could work it in.

      2. FaintlyMacabre*

        Yeah, definitely agree it sounds forced. I was trying to think of examples that sounded better but failed, which reinforces the consensus of it not being a good idea!

      3. LadyByTheLake*

        This — it’s one thing to mention the conversation like others here mention “here’s the contact info” “good luck in your search” but the examples were not great.

    4. Tangerina*

      Eh, I wouldn’t. But I completely understand the desire to do it in the hopes that it will make you juuuust that more memorable.

      1. FaintlyMacabre*

        Yup. On one hand, it felt like an “in”. On the other hand, it’s just a meaningless conversation.

        1. motherofdragons*

          The conversation itself probably served to make you more memorable! No need to try to fit it into the thank-you note, too.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I say no, don’t include anything like that in your thank you note. However, if he asked because he’s car shopping and you two discussed that specifically, you could add a PS with, “Good luck with your search for the perfect car!” to make things slightly more personal. (Note: I don’t think that would work in very conservative/formal fields, but it would in mine.)

      1. Artemesia*

        The examples are like the worst stereotypes of ‘salesy’ so unless you can do something more natural like some of the examples in the follow ups, leave it out.

    6. Susan K*

      Unless the job was related to car sales (which it looks like it wasn’t), that would probably come across as a little weird and random. The guy probably won’t even remember having that conversation and it will just end up being confusing.

    9. CupcakeCounter*

      Yeah…no
      At most you could have added a line about enjoying the convo about cars since it is a subject you really enjoy but don’t get to discuss as often as you’d like with another interested party.

    10. CuriosityCat*

      I agree that a “Good luck with your car decision” would have been appropriate if that was the context of your conversation.

      And, just out of curiosity – did the interviewer walk you all the way to your car? If so, what was their stated reason for going out with you? That seems odd and pings my radar for something I read in Internet-lore somewhere about interviewers doing that to check if (mostly female) candidates had car seats installed in their car, tipping them off that she had children.

      1. Just Me*

        Along that line, when I was renting out my condo, some advice I was given when meeting with potential renters was to look at their car to see how they would take care of your home. (I live in a very transit non-friendly city unfortunately.). My first thought on reading the comment was that the interviewer was checking out the interviewees to see if they were tidy, clean or had a car half filled with fast food shakes. They might be channelling their inner-sherlock to deduce the type of worker you are.

      2. Nita*

        Ouch. That’s horrible, if it’s true. I imagine the kind of interviewer that does that, is not doing it just out of curiosity. I guess if you’re interviewing and you have car seats, it’s a good idea to park far, far away and claim you did it because you felt like taking a long walk.

      3. FaintlyMacabre*

        I didn’t get the feeling that there was an ulterior motive- I’ve interviewed with these people before and this interviewer in particular is quite courteous and has always walked me to just beyond the door. It’s a small office and a small parking lot, making it pretty obvious what car belongs to the interviewee. He didn’t say he was buying a car, but mentioned that he had friends who loved theirs and wanted to know how I liked mine, so it really felt like it was just that particular vehicle that caught his attention.

    11. Chaordic One*

      I did have a boss who made a point of noticing what kind of cars applicants drove up in. I would hope that he was an aberration. He noticed if the car was clean or dirty and if it had a lot of dents. He seemed to prefer candidates who drove smaller and more reliable cars and had an aversion to candidates who drove hoopties, as well as those who drove more expensive luxury cars. (A clean car with no dents made a better impression.)

      As if interviewing weren’t already stressful enough.

      1. Kat in VA*

        Oh, great. I drove a beater truck for 15 years, and finally last year got a great new car – a Dodge Charger 392 SRT. It’s black, mean, has a ton of horsepower, and an…interesting license plate.

        Someone seeing my car wouldn’t necessarily link it to my personality, though!

    12. Sasha*

      I wouldn’t do this. Although you would have really great intention behind it, it will come across as try-hard and possibly immature.

  5. Turanga Leela*

    I’m on the verge of leaving a large Facebook group because of the flood of bad job search advice. I find the group otherwise fun and useful, but pretty frequently someone will pop up and ask for advice on resumés, cover letters, and interviewing. Without fail, people will start offering counterproductive advice.

    I sometimes resist commenting and sometimes jump in, but I feel like I’m screaming into the void. (And they’re weird screams: “Don’t put a bullet-pointed list of how you meet the job qualifications in your cover letter! Wear a #%?!& suit to the interview!”) I sometimes post links to AAM, but at a certain point I think people have probably heard of the site already and my links aren’t helpful.

    Where does this conventional wisdom come from? How do you address this kind of advice in your lives? I feel like I should ignore it, but it’s often presented as “I saw this GREAT cover letter idea and you should all use it,” and I think people get really misled.

    (Alison, this seemed more like a Friday post than a weekend post to me, but tell me if I’m wrong and I’ll re-post this weekend.)

    1. ZSD*

      Online, I combat it with links to AAM. :)
      In person, I just address it as clearly as possible in the moment. Recently, a student told me that someone advised her to hustle hard to get LinkedIn endorsements. I explained that those endorsements are useless because anyone can endorse you for any skill, regardless of whether they have witnessed you exercise it.

      2. Essess*

        Agreed. My mother endorsed me for one of my technical work skills! And also my uncle who has no idea what I even do for a living endorsed me for one. I have no idea why.

    2. DaniCalifornia*

      I mean if you google “resume + help/advice/template/ideas/etc” the amount of articles are just staggering. And I kind of wonder if people get overwhelmed and only click the first couple of links. Therefore the first page links even if they have bad advice get more of an audience? (I know that’s not how google works completely but I wonder how the first page has so much bad advice.) And it seems like there is always someone new writing about resumes and job searches.

    3. Anon bc Facebook uses real names*

      Is this the Nonprofit Happy Hour by chance? (I saw that cover letter with bullet points post too).

      2. Kimberlee, Ranavain*

        I know there’s stuff to reasonably disagree on, but I am staggered sometimes by the bad advice/bad practices that are encouraged in that group! Especially given how great Vu Le is in basically every way. I was sure I was gonna get kicked out within the first week I was there, for starting fights. I love that people share their experiences and advice, and lot of people are very excited to learn more and share, but sometimes people dig their heels in on just terrible things.

    4. NW Mossy*

      Whenever I get that shouting-into-the-void feeling, I think of that classic xkcd comic “Duty Calls,” where the protagonist can’t come to bed yet because “someone is wrong on the internet.” And then I chuckle, remember that there is a vast internet full of wrong that I cannot combat if I ever want to sleep again, and go to bed.

      3. Turanga Leela*

        I mentioned this problem to my partner, and he immediately brought up the same XKCD!

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I’m stumped! It looks like your IP address recently changed and that’s when it started happening, but I don’t know why. It’s not an IP address that’s flagged for moderation or anything like that. I’m hopeful it’s a weird quirk of WordPress and it will work itself out, but I can’t say for sure. I know that’s really irritating though, so I’ll check with my tech person too.

    5. Falling Diphthong*

      I dunno, I think the Slate comments section has a macro for “Why are you asking Prudie about a workplace problem? Those should go to AAM.”

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        And oh hey, today’s Dr Nerdlove cries out for that comment and there it is in the first 20 or so.

        Maybe it’s like saying “And glass is not a liquid.” You just have to keep repeating it because there’s always some new person saying “But I read it is a liquid.”

        1. fposte*

          Yup. Bad legal advice, bad medical advice, bad science info–there are a pile of really compelling narratives in every area that aren’t ultimately correct or helpful.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        It makes me crazy when Dear Prudence responds to workplace questions. He is SO BAD at it, and he knows Alison, and why doesn’t he just point people to someone who can actually help?

        (I don’t care for the current Prudie in any case.)

        1. Pop*

          I love the current Prudie and still think he shouldn’t answer workplace questions! He also *knows and admits* that he is bad at it and doesn’t have any ideas of workplace norms.

        3. Ann O.*

          I will always have residual love for Danny from the Toast, but IMHO, he really isn’t great at being Prudence. He has too many gaps and for whatever reason, bluffs his way through them instead of researching/asking his network for help.

          1. Falling Diphthong*

            Age. I think Prudie just needs a broader range of life experience where David’s is narrow and deep.

    6. Antilles*

      Where does this conventional wisdom come from?
      This actually came up in the comments a few days ago, and my theory is this: The ‘conventional’ wisdom and inaccuracy comes about because the vast majority of people have absolutely no real good sources for information.
      Your friends and family don’t really know much beyond their own personal anecdotes which may or may not have any actual knowledge. Your parents probably haven’t job searched recently enough to actually keep up with things. The advice on the Internet varies wildly in quality from “awesome” (AAM) to “will get you blacklisted and possibly arrested” (Bob’s House of Gumption) and if you don’t have much knowledge yourself, it’s hard to tell the difference. Recruiters and career consultants seem like they should be knowledgeable, but far too many of them have never actually hired themselves, so they don’t actually know anything.
      So if you haven’t hired yourself, it’s really, really hard to sort out the difference between “legitimate and solid ideas” and “wow, that’s stupid”.
      There’s probably also a dash of ‘good advice is so simple it seems boring’ in there. The best general job advice you could probably give someone could probably be written in like, one sentence: “Write a decent resume, write a cover letter for each job, put as much effort/time into your Job Search as you would the real full-time job, and be patient.” But…nobody’s going to post that, because holy heck is that boring advice. It’s much more entertaining and dazzling to hear about This One Great New Trick to Convert Applications Into Interviews.

      1. Kimberlee, Ranavain*

        I think your theories are correct, but I would also say there are two other big factors:

        1) A lot of hiring managers are bad at hiring, no matter how many times they’ve done it, partly because:
        2) There’s a strong “this is how it’s always been done” bias in hiring, generally, regardless of how good or bad the particular practice is.

        So, a fair amount of “bad” advice comes from people who *have* done hiring, which means it is technically “good” advice, if you want to get hired by that person or someone who thinks like they do. But hiring managers are all over the map in terms of what they think works and what doesn’t, much of it based on their own experience (anecdata), and a small bit of it based on actual data (that could be anomalous for any number of reasons).

      2. Turanga Leela*

        I think part of it is also a negative reaction to how stodgy the good advice seems. People want to be fresh and modern, and it sounds so gross and old-fashioned that employers will judge you for not wearing a suit. But some will! And some of them are good employers you would want to work for!

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          It’s why “This one weird trick powerful people don’t want you to know” is synonymous with clickbait. Print your resume on aluminum foil so it stands out!

      4. SierraSkiing*

        Sorta like losing weight, honestly. Everyone has their anecdotes, and the general good advice of “exercise and eat in moderation” is less exciting than the latest pseudoscience fad diet.

        1. Amethystmoon*

          Yeah, fad diets don’t work. I’ve tried a bunch of them. If fad diets actually worked, I’m pretty sure we’d all be thin. Or at least mostly…

  6. Blue Tape Everywhere*

    I need to talk to one of my employees today about some behavior issues that are starting to affect her work as well as the morale of the rest of the team.
    The entire team is very high-functioning, close-knit, and does excellent work, and she’s one of the “best.” That being said, I’m concerned for her.

    I know that in her personal life she’s consumed with a huge number of things, including dealing with her late father’s estate, caretaking for her mother (who is in declining health), an unemployed husband with severe depression, potentially emerging mental health issues in one kid, another going off to college, along with the normal day to day stressors of life like housekeeping and kid activities. Lately, she’s been lashing out at coworkers, reacting badly to even minor requests or suggestions, and losing track of deadlines and details.

    I am 99% sure the work performance issues are a manifestation of the stressors of her personal life and I am empathetic to that. That said, it really is affecting the team as well as the projects that she is assigned to. I plan to just open up with a conversation about how things are going, ask if there is anything I can be doing in terms of assessing her workload or hours (she is exempt and has flexibility), and remind her of our EAP resources. Is there anything else you’d suggest?

    2. Temperance*

      I think you need to also bring up the performance issues, too, to make it clear that you have sympathy for her situation, but she’s been snapping at her colleagues.

    3. Tangerina*

      You sound like you’re right on track. Perhaps (if this is true) also remind her that her PTO is there for her to take when she needs/wants it?

      When I was going through an extremely rough patch in my life, one way my self-harming tendencies took form was refusing to slow down and take me-time. I think taking one or two days off during that time could have marginally improved things for me and my team.

      1. Bigglesworth*

        I agree with this 100%. Over the course of the last year, my husband was hospitalized for suicidal ideation due to depression (and it’s almost happened twice since then), we moved from the Midwest to the East Coat, my grandma passed away, I quit a paying job, started and completed two unpaid internships, hubby started a new job, and there’s been some family drama now that he’s on meds (his parents dislike that he’s on meds and seem to think that if ate healthy/slept more/etc. his depression would go away). This also all occurred during my first year of law school as well, which is hell anyway. Self-care and time for myself did not exist. In the middle of the chaos, I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what I needed help with or even how to ask for help. It was the people around me who said, “You are dealing with (emergency of the week), let’s postpone these two exams until xx date.” or “Your landlord said all shelves must be emptied out and cleaned because there is a roach problem and pest control is coming in tomorrow. I will be there by 4 pm with wine and cleaning supplies to help.” Those people were lifesavers, because I was too exhausted to even think about what help I needed to ask for.

        You sound like a great manager and it could easily be that your employee hasn’t even thought about taking PTO to deal with some of these things. She has a lot on her plate and worrying about PTO (asking for it, running out of it, etc.) may just be one more thing on her plate she doesn’t have the brain space for. If you talk to her and mention that it’s available, she may realize it’s a solution she hadn’t thought of before.

        1. Bigglesworth*

          Btw, I only share what has happened this past year to show that I empathize with your employee. I also wish you the best as you figure out how to talk to her about how her personal life is influencing her professional behavior.

    4. Natalie*

      Maybe suggesting (or insisting) that she take some time off as well. It doesn’t have to be a vacation, if the workload/PTO allows 4 day weeks or some long weekends for a little while could be helpful.

      1. Putting Out Fires, Esq*

        yes, this. Regardless of the busyness of business right now (hahaha), she sounds like she is in serious need of a good series of mental health days.

      2. Opting for the Sidelines*

        If you have the flexibility, can you give her a spot bonus of one or two days off?

    5. Sunflower*

      I think this is all good stuff. Although, I do think you need to directly address the lashing out. I’d ask her how things are going and see if she acknowledges it. If she doesn’t, I’d let her know that you understand things are going on but that’s really not acceptable and see if there’s something to prevent it from happening- maybe it means submitting requests by email so she has some time to compose herself for responding?

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yeah. I think you can be kind and understanding as a manager that her personal life is hard enough to warrant some drop in her work quality, while continuing to expect that she behave courteously to others.

    6. CatCat*

      Does she have vacation time available? Maybe some time off work would help so she can have some time to focus on these things.

      If it is possible to lighten her workload a little bit right now, that might also help.

    7. Nervous Accountant*

      Oh my god I thought this was about me for a quick half second. If it were though, I would hope that my boss/mgr would talk to me. Everything you said sounds fine but I would definitely address the lashing out. Chances are she doesn’t realize that she’s doing that.

      1. Nines*

        Yes!! I thought the same thing! Though it would have been me a couple years ago. And I Truly didn’t realize how bad it had become. Please talk to her! I knew I was “moody” and had snapped at people a couple times, but it was a much larger pattern than I realized. And WAY more people had noticed. I was horrified when my boss finally said something (I almost lost my job!) But I really wouldn’t have realized how bad it was if she hadn’t said anything. AND it prompted me to really look at what was going on and take better care of myself. It’s never a fun thing to hear. But it helped me a lot.

    8. Grits McGee*

      Given that she sounds so overwhelmed with stuff going on with her personal life, it might be helpful for you to come to the meeting with at least a few ideas for workarounds/accommodations. I bet it would really be helpful for her to have an idea of what extent of her options are.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh, I have been that person. Sole care giver for my father, he died, I did the estate work and then I started having some substantial health issues. I became a person I did not like. Not eating regularly, getting 1-3 hours of sleep a night and so on caused my health to tank and in turn my situation got worse.

      Fatigue is a major player here, mental, physical and emotional fatigue. There maybe some decision making fatigue going on also.

      I used to put myself off in a corner with a big project. I have also seen bosses use this same technique with other tired and grouchy people. It kept the person with a steady paycheck and it protected others from the verbal stuff.

      If you can give her time off ask her if she would like that so she can deal with some of this stuff.
      You might also suggest grief counseling. Anger is a stage of grief. We can be in more than one stage at any given time so it’s very possible that you could be talking with an angry person with tears in their eyes.

      If you see this, start talking softer. Ask open ended questions, not yes/no answer questions. If it goes rough for her, ask her if she would like sometime to think about these questions and come back to the conversation tomorrow or the next day. Then, actually follow up on the agreed day. (It may be that this stands alone to bring out the better side of her. But go ahead with the conversation anyway.)

      Come at it from the angle that she KNOWS she is not herself right now. You can say, you see that life is packing her a real punch right now. Be sure to say that the company so values her and her work. (We have to say things 3-5 times to be heard once, so keep this rule of thumb in mind.) If she mentions belonging to a church ask her if there are people at church who would help her.

      Before you start the conversation:
      1) Know the ways and the limits of how you can help her. Don’t say, “how can I help you?” She doesn’t know how you can help her. Tell her, “I would like to be of some help if I can. I think we have options a, b and c here if you would like to use them.”

      2) Have an idea of where you absolutely need her to work and what work can be delegated elsewhere.

      Just a suggestion but maybe working half days for a while would be helpful. Or maybe having every Friday [whatever day] off would be better. She needs a pressure release from somewhere. Small estates take about 8 months to a year to totally clean up. If her father had more then it will take longer. No way to know how mom is doing and what is involved there. Same with husband and son. In her mind she is going to be in this particular situation FOREVER with no reprieve/respite. We know that is not totally true but her life will change for sure.

      1. Manders*

        Yes, the decision-making fatigue is real! I’m going through a rough situation (not as the sole caregiver, fortunately) and my normal decisiveness has turned into constant second-guessing. If the snapping seems to be associated with coworkers questioning her decisions or asking her to make decisions, maybe that responsibility could be shifted to someone else for a while?

        These other suggestions are also great.

      2. Opting for the Sidelines*

        If you can reassign entire projects or shift deadlines out by a few days to a few weeks, this is a huge help as well.

        Does she have (or need to have) an administrative assistant assigned to her? Or a junior staff member or intern? Someone to take care of meeting minutes, scheduling meetings, responding to the mundane emails? Seriously, someone to take care of the “little stuff” is a huge help.

        1. Opting for the Sidelines*

          Also, I don’t know the financial situation of your employee here, but do you have housekeeping / lawn-mowing / dog-walking / grocery delivery services you or other staff can recommend. (I was advised in the past, in my stressed out world, that I should delegate off as much as I can and this included chores at home too. I cannot afford to delegate off that stuff, but it would be awesome if I could. ) Your employee may wish to do this but may not have the time to interview / screen / hire support for at home, so recommendations of trusted helpers would be kind.

          1. Blue Tape Everywhere*

            I truly wish this was an option for her. We work for a very modest-paying organization. She supports a family of six on her salary, so money is always tight as it is. Thank you for the suggestion, though.

            1. Logan*

              Some cities / countries have help which may be useful in her situation (for example elder-care for her aging mother). It may not apply in this situation, however if someone is willing to volunteer to help out with researching resources… then it may be a way to help which isn’t financial or time, but which could be very useful.

              I have a family member who has work experience with elder-care, and it’s great when a friend or family has an elderly relative (especially one who still wants to live at home), and my family member can supply several different organisations which provide physical devices or services (for example four hours a month for house-cleaning, or two hours a week for meal preparation, or 2 days a week of day care for a spouse with dementia at a local community centre… )

    10. Interviewer*

      If she needs to take time off for the medical stuff, she may be worried she’s taking too much or could lose her job. She might qualify for FMLA, if you are in the US and your employee is eligible for it.

    11. AMPG*

      If you think she might be eligible for FMLA due to her caretaker status, you should mention that, as well.

    12. Mobuy*

      My first husband told me he wanted a divorce on a Wednesday in the middle of my student teaching. Jerk. My co-op teacher had to tell me a few days later that I could go home if I wanted and I wasn’t doing myself any favors by staying. That shocked me into shaping up, because he wasn’t wrong! Tell her that you have sympathy but that she needs to shape up. Maybe in a slightly nicer way than that!

    13. Persimmons*

      I say this not as a criticism, but for additional context: EAP resources are IMO only useful up to a certain “load” of life events. Sometimes the amount of crap happening in your personal life makes it impossible to tack on one more responsibility, even if the company offers helpful/easy-to-use resources. I’ve been at points where calling a hotline/juggling one more appointment was just too much to ask of me, despite it being self-care.

      She sounds like she may be at that point. It might be worth floating the idea of intermittent FMLA instead of EAP.

      1. nonymous*

        Ultimately, she will need to cut back on the home front (e.g. by hiring some help, hubby and child get mental health care) or in the workplace.

        EAP will definitely help with sorting that out, and if Blue Tape can reduce expectations temporarily it may just give her space to take advantage of it. Given the constellation of health care needs in the immediate family, they may need a family care manager.

    14. gr8celife*

      My Dad died 3 months ago and my Mom has memory issues. I am still dealing with both. Actually coming to work is a relief from dealing with my personal stuff. What is helping me. My boss and HR have supported me stepping out for appointments. Stepping out to sit in my car and cry. Also all she is dealing with can feel overwhelming and stuck… things she can’t fix; Having a thing you can do well and complete in your professional life can actually help. From my viewpoint. 1. Tell her what specific things need to change; like the lashing out. 2. Discuss ways to handle it, i.e. stepping away; less interaction 3. Be specific in what the company needs her to do. 4. Remind her of things she does well and continues to do well.

    15. Anonny*

      I have to admit that I do this kind of thing when my mental health is in a bad spot. I recognize that it’s happening, but when the depression is bad, it’s like I have zero energy to spare toward stopping this behavior. So I know I’m doing it, I know it’s not ok, but since “fixing” it can feel impossible in the moment, I tend to put my head down, try to power through and get back to normal(ish), and hope that if I slip and get snappish, my coworkers will cut me a bit of a break in the meantime based on the goodwill I’ve built up with them. But even if she realizes this is happening, you saying something may be the push she needs to recognize that she can’t continue as is and she needs to find a way to address this. Urging her to take some time off and reminding her of the EAP resources would be a great place to start.

    16. RightsaidFed*

      I would much rather have an employee who is giving 100% 30 hours a week than giving 80% 40 hours a week.
      Flex time can give her the opportunity to give 100% of her focus to the issues she needs to deal with.

    17. Blue Tape Everywhere*

      Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the feedback.
      The conversation went alright. She immediately jumped to “am I in trouble?” I explained that she wasn’t in trouble, but that we needed to talk about how things were going. She was aware that she’s been snapping at people and her snark level has been turned up to 11 lately. As a couple of you pointed out, she said that she’s aware of the EAP resources but can’t imagine finding the time to use them. She is currently using FMLA for her mother’s medical appointments and care, so thanks for those of you who suggested it.
      Her body language started off very rigid and alert and sort of a weird mix of defiant and unsurprised, but by the end of things she was slumped and crying. I really stressed that I want her to know that I want to be supportive as much as I can. I recognized that she’d sort of checked out at the crying part and was itching to get out of her chair, so I just told her to think about it over the weekend and that we’d check in on Monday.
      I really wish her home life was less complicated to begin with. Things have always been chaotic for her, but the last several months have really thrown her for a loop.
      Again, thanks for the feedback.

    18. Tiff*

      It feels kind of passive aggressive to have a conversation like this when you know there is a problem and it is putting her job at risk… there is an excellent chance she’ll sidestep the issue and say that everything is fine, which then puts you in the very awkward position of calling her out on it.

      This is the kind of situation where you should be opening about her taking some paid time off – she has way too much on her plate and it is clearly unhinging her at work. You can even make it mandatory (as long as you aren’t depriving her of her paycheque by doing so) and stress that she needs to get back on track. You also have to put her issues on the table and tell her exactly what is wrong with her performance. She might not see it or she might be in denial… but it has to be addressed and will support your urging for her to take some time.

  7. Anon for this*

    Grr. My husband, who works for a public university, is being offered a promotion, and the published hiring salary rate goes up high enough that I thought he might get as much as a 40% raise. Now he’s only being offered a 16% raise because the university bases salary offers on your current salary. They normally don’t do more than a 10% raise for promotions, but his boss was able to argue for the 16% raise.
    Basically, the university is using the fact that they’ve already been underpaying him as justification to continue underpaying him.
    Grr.

    1. Anon for this*

      And don’t get me started on the long-term effects of this policy on gender pay discrepancies…

    2. Anonymous Cookie*

      A similar thing happened to me when I applied to a public institution. They based the pay they were offering on my salary at my previous employer. While it’s a 25% raise, I still would have preferred to negotiate my salary based on market rate and not the fact that I was already being underpaid.

    3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      That is really annoying. Can he be reclassified or something like that? That was how my supervisors got me raises/promotions with fair salaries.

      Sympathy for my fellow public university staffer!

      1. Anon for this*

        Thanks for the sympathy!
        His boss says she’ll fight for him to get raises in the future, so maybe she was talking about reclassification. The university normally only gives across-the-board 1% or 2% raises per year (so COLA disguised as merit increases), so I’m not sure how she’ll be able to fight for raises any other way.

        1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          We get those COLA increases as well and they are called “the merit pool.” Covers about the same amount as a parking pass, which is increased every year. :)

    4. Public Employee 4 Life*

      I work for state government, so this is all too familiar for me.
      When I hire new employees, I have a huge twinge of guilt being able to offer outside candidates way more than internal. It sucks. Side note – as a result of this stupid policy, I make more than my boss, whose title is 5 pay grades above mine. We have the same number of years of experience, but I started at a city agency, and he started with the state.

    5. Tangerina*

      That happened to me!

      I left the company within a year to get a 15% on top of the raise I got for my promotion. The company is still well-known for underpaying, so I didn’t take it personal.

      I’ve never understood this mentality. “Well the going rate for this job is $XXk, but since Bob already works for us, it’s fine to undercut him.”

      1. Underpaid Bookkeeper*

        YES! This happened with my current job. I started at $10.00 part time when I went full time they gave me $11/hour then I did research and was saying the current rate is $15/hr and they told me that is too much of a jump and only gave me $13.00/hour.

        I’ts like the easiest way to get a decent pay raise is to get a new job which is annoying.

      2. BillieB*

        This is common in major corporations too, not just government. I think this is a big reason why people don’t stay with companies more than a few years anymore. Nothing kills morale faster than knowing an external hire with half your level of experience makes 10K more a year. And the company policies enforce only offering up to x% raise for an internal promotion vs. a salary band that competes with the local market for an external hire. So if internal candidate is underpaid, they will likely continue being underpaid until taking a job with another company.

      1. CatCat*

        If I went back to exJob, I would be able to come in at a higher rate. Like if I went back into exactly the same classification, I’d be making way more than if I had just stayed there. Not that I would go back, they can’t actually come close to the pay range I have now.

        1. CupcakeCounter*

          Yup. I knew of someone who did that and it worked out great for him. His boss (who was awesome) took him out to lunch about 6 weeks before he finished his master’s program and told him exactly what would happen at our org. His advise was to go job hunting as soon as he had his paperwork. Our org have a $1,000 bonus and a 1% raise for the masters and then he left for 2 years. The boss then called him and said come on back and hired him on for a $30k increase over what he left 2 years prior.
          I always believed that man when he told me something – he was honest and straightforward. He told me to get the hell out and I did.

      2. Perhaps perhaps*

        Super fun state employee twist! In my state, if you move from one state agency to another (including universities), your salary increase is capped at 15%. This happens even if the line is funded at more than your cap.

        I know people who got their new boss to fill out the raft of waivers needed to go beyond the cap- but I also have colleagues who had to settle for the 15%.

        1. CatCat*

          Yeah, my state has crappy rules similar to that in the executive branch of state government. I don’t know if they apply to the universities though. I do know those rules don’t apply when you switch branches of government. So that’s what did.

    7. Anona*

      Yeah, I’ve been in this situation. The only way to typically get a significant salary hike is to leave and go to a new job, and then return. Or I’ve had some luck with leveraging a job offer to get a higher salary, but that will also be subject to rules most likely (and there’s the risk that they’ll say– congrats on your new job offer! and essentially force you to take it.).

    8. AnonToodles*

      At my public university you can only get a 10% pay rise when you change positions (unless changing from a staff position to a faculty position), whether through a transfer , promotion, or a reclassification. It really sucks if, like me, you came in at the very lowest rate for your job classification (jobs were scarce; I was desperate). Even a couple of “equity” adjustments have kept my pay at a much lower rate than others in comparable positions. This initial error on my part has dogged me for 25 years.

      But expecting your husband would get a 40% pay raise to be at the top level of his job classification was just unrealistic. Also, at least where I work, once you hit the top of your pay grade, no more raises! You are given a once-a-year stipend equal to the general merit increase (2-3% usually). That does not necessarily increase every year; the stipend next year is not based on salary+stipend this year.

      1. Buffy*

        That is how it works at my public university, when staff members hit the top of their payscale.

    9. A.*

      Sometimes the Provost can make an exception for a bigger raise. It really isn’t fair and the policy doesn’t make sense because you are essentially punishing people for being loyal employees and sticking with the university or company. They can bring an outsider in at the 40% raise but then they will lose the employee who gets fed up and finds a new job and there goes all the institutional knowledge the employee possessed.

      I work in government, so I get it. You pretty much are stuck at whatever salary you were hired under, which is very frustrating when people are hired after you with less experience at a higher rate. Imagine training someone with less experience than you who makes substantially more than you do. That is one of the biggest reasons I left my last job. I was tired to training people who made more than me.

    10. Kathy*

      I think this is the case for most universities so you want to go in as high up as you can. If he takes the job he should work for a couple years then apply elsewhere and get more money/ more senior role. My husband had the same issue at an Ivy he worked at and graduated from. When he ended up with another offer and was going to leave they could suddenly pay him more. He decided to leave anyway. It ended up being the best thing. Good luck!

    11. rageismycaffeine*

      In the public university system that employs myself and my partner, raises above a certain percentage can’t be approved by your supervisor. Or their supervisor. It has to go all the way up to the chancellor… and above a certain higher percentage, it has to go to the university system president… and above ANOTHER percentage, it has to go to the university system board of governors. Who don’t like approving anything.

      AFAIK that doesn’t apply if you’re moving to different universities within the system, but it does apply if you’re being promoted within the same university, even if your career banding is changing entirely.

      Sometimes the government really sucks.

    12. Blue*

      I work in higher ed, and I once turned down a job at a public university because their hiring manager told me the offer would be X, then HR found out what I currently made (in a location where the COL was about half of what it was in new university’s city) and said the offer couldn’t be more than X-2,500. That was a big nope from me. Such a terrible system.

      (If it makes you feel any better, my last job was at a very prestigious, very expensive private university, and my boss had to fight tooth and nail for a reasonable raise when I was promoted from an entry-level academic-year-only position to a more specialized 12-month role. Salary ended up being less than I thought it should be for the role, but he really had to work to get them to budge as much as they did.)

      1. Blue*

        Congrats to your husband on the promotion, btw! Hopefully he can use the experience to leverage himself into a position elsewhere that will give him a better salary.

    13. AFPM*

      Mine does the same thing. 16% is the max – or else you have to do an extensive job review with HR. They use a very good benefits package to justify it.

    14. Little Bean*

      Yep, this is how it is at my organization too. It’s generally known that the best way to make more money is to leave and get another job. Some people really do leave and then come back to the exact same job at a higher salary.

      However, the fact that you say the published hiring salary rate “goes up high enough” makes me think that there is a range, and it may not have been realistic to think he’d be hired at the top of the range – that’s actually extremely rare in my experience. People are almost always brought in at the lower-end of the range maybe up to the mid-point at the most; they will sometimes even say in the job description “range is $X-XX; position is budgeted for up to midpoint” or “we anticipate hiring in the first quartile of the range for this position”. This is so that there is room for potential growth. If you’re brought in at the top of the range, then they can’t give you a raise in the future.

    15. Specialk9*

      The only way he’s likely to get that is with strategic job hopping. Get a better salary and come back.

    16. WorkerBea*

      I had one place tell me if I wanted to make what was a lateral move in the same pay grade, I’d have to take a pay cut. HR tried to pass it off as not having enough experience for that job such that if they agreed to the transfer, my pay grade would have to be downgraded to Grade 5, but then expecting me to do the exact same job they would otherwise be paying at Grade 6. It was the most ludicrous thing I’d ever heard. The hiring manager thought I was absolutely qualified and wanted to give me the job. This was HR and upper management trying to prevent me from leaving the current position I was very good at.

    17. Dr. Doll*

      I was really annoyed a few years ago when HR at my univ balked at reclassifying one of my team members b/c it would be a huge raise, because he had been at a low pay rate for a long time — because for several years there had been raise freezes. Even my boss brought it up as a problem! Fortunately she was fair-minded enough to know I was right that the *job duties* were the deciding factor in a reclassification, and she signed off.

    18. Anon Raptor*

      I ended up fighting for two years to get my public university to pay me what I deserve. I honestly should have left, but everything else about the job suited me. My boss was on my side, but my raise was always not a “top priority”. They finally literally doubled my salary last month — but it was still like pulling teeth with HR, and they had to get a member of the executive cabinet to sign off. I’m very happy with my pay now. But I think the fact that they were willing (and could afford) to pay me double shows just how much they were underpaying me in the first place.

    19. MsChandandlerBong*

      That happened to my mother. She was going to take another job at her current place of work, as it paid $6 an hour more than her job. But then she found out, no, it only paid that much for an outside candidate. She’d only make like $1 more per hour for ten times the work, so she turned it down.

  8. Anon for this*

    I’m starting a new job next week — same department, but new role and different team. I’m moving from a shift work role to a more traditional job in which I’ll have my own individual responsibilities. This will be a welcome change for me because, when I was doing shift work, my workload was highly dependent on whether or not my coworkers did the work they were supposed to do, and they frequently did not.

    I was on a team of 12 people and typically did 20-25% of the work, and it was really frustrating to be working so hard while coworkers surfed the web for half the day and took 90-minute lunch breaks. Management was aware of the disparity but didn’t feel the need to do anything because they could count on me and a couple of others to make sure everything got done.

    Some of my coworkers are upset that I’m leaving the team for obvious reasons: the rest of them will now have a lot more work to do. I will eventually be replaced, but this job requires a lot of training and even an experienced person will take about a year to complete the training for our specific facility. Even then, it’s unlikely that my replacement will take on as much of the workload as I was doing.

    I’m starting to feel sort of guilty about having taken on so much of the workload and then leaving. It’s not that I wanted to do such a disproportionate amount of work; it was just that, if I didn’t do it, no one would, and the harder I worked, the more it spiraled out of control because others felt more free to neglect their work, knowing that I would pick up the slack (a wise former coworker warned me, “The harder you work, the harder you work.”).

    But now I’m afraid that I did the department a disservice by enabling coworkers to slack off so much for so long. I think they’re in for a rude awakening, not only because they will suddenly have to make up the large quantity of work that I had been doing, but also because there were things that I almost always did that nobody else did. Even when I went on vacation, certain things would just be left until I got back because no one else would touch them, almost as though they thought these things got done by magic. I’m just not sure what I should have done differently. Management was unwilling to address other people’s lack of productivity, and my coworkers got upset if I had the nerve to comment on it. Should I have held back and let things get missed so management couldn’t ignore what was happening, even though it could have caused major problems (like regulatory fines) for our company?

    1. Friday*

      Congratulations on your new job! Don’t worry about your old team; it’s your old management’s fault that things will suck going forward, not yours. They made a choice to let you do so much more than the others.

      1. Specialk9*

        I’m happy impressed, and half saddened, that you, OP, are so worried about a team, and managers, that gladly let you spiral in misery because it benefited them. They’re not good people. They’re users.

        Spend some good time figuring out why you care so much about crap people.

        1. Lance*

          Yeah… if anything happens to these people (and it probably will), that’s on them, without any question whatsoever. It’s not your fault that they decided to slack off, and management decided to do nothing about it.

    2. Discordia Angel Jones*

      Honestly? Your coworkers were lucky to have you and now that they won’t, it’s really not your problem and they will have to pull their socks up.

      Not your circus, not your monkeys.

      2. Anon for this*

        I know it shouldn’t really be my problem anymore, but since I’m still in the same department, and my new team works closely with my old team, it could still be a problem for me. Both teams are important for the department’s success, but there’s just not much I can do for my old team now.

        1. Purple Jello*

          You will have to learn to say (nicely but firmly) that you cannot help with old job task. Hopefully your boss will back you up.

          I’m in a similar situation and now that they finally have to have someone else do much of what I used to these a lot of scrambling going on.

        2. Observer*

          They can’t cause you problems if you don’t let them. I don’t mean physically preventing it, but just cheerfully, calmly and professionally refusing to engage.

          If they try to push their work on you, loop your own management in when you refuse, just to make it clear what it is that you are refusing to do. But even a manager that won’t manage is going to expect you to do the work of another department. They actually generally won’t WANT you to – especially if you are good and are picking up the slack for others – they are going to want you to pick up the slack for the people in THEIR department. And, of course, if you manager DOES manage, they are going to know that this is ridiculous and won’t expect it of you.

          As for the regulatory problems that could happen if your old team doesn’t do its job? Totally NOT your issue.

          1. Anon for this*

            What I meant about it causing problems for me is that, in my new role, I will need some of the work output of my old team for my job, so if that specific work doesn’t get done, it could affect my ability to complete my work. I think my new manager will make sure my old team doesn’t interfere with my transition to my new role, although I will still be around to answer quick questions if needed.

            1. Workerbee*

              Ah, that is where documentation is your friend. Email/paper trail requests, follow-ups, repeated follow-ups…make it hard to be disproved that you can’t complete Y until X is done by Old Team. This is not being mean. This is being a proponent of your current job and employment.

              You seem to sincerely care about your work and the organization, including outcomes; all extremely commendable. Now it’s time to take that care and turn it a little inward for yourself. I think it’s in your best interests here to direct your skills and desire to help toward you in the now, not backwards. You owe it to yourself to excel in your new job; you will not be able to excel in your new job if you keep your feet in old job; and it’s a disservice to your old team to do their work for them.

              This includes being available for quick questions. I am currently coaching a direct report whose role has transitioned slightly over the past few months. She’s the only one who does what she currently does, yet because she has all this knowledge about Old Role, plus she has an abundance of caring about the organization, her work, and our customers, that she will “just answer a question if it’s really an odd one, you know, or for This and That Other Reason.” She loves to help. Helping makes her feel good. She has her explanations for why it’s okay that she keeps helping.

              The thing is, while of course her knowledge wouldn’t disappear just because of her role change, and it’s not that I want to squash all things that make her feel good or turn her into the anti-help, her colleagues won’t get trained to go to the folks who legitimately should be answering those questions now. She trained those folks in her old role, yet those folks will never grow in confidence and skills as long as she’s doing all the thinking for them.

              Plus, taking up time to do “just this one thing”–which is never just that one thing, this one time–directly impacts her own work not getting done. Which concerns me as her manager.

              1. Anon for this*

                Yeah, I know I will have to be vigilant about covering my butt in case I don’t get what I need from my old team. It would sure be easier if I could count on someone to work insanely hard to make sure it all gets done, though!

                This is a new situation for me, because the last time I changed jobs, I left the company, so it was truly Not My Problem. This time, I’m not even leaving the department (I have a different manager, but the same grand-boss), so I don’t want them to regret giving me the opportunity for this promotion. In any case, I’m not going to be around forever, so the old team is going to have to get their act together. I don’t want to abandon them entirely, but you’re right that I will need to focus my time and attention on getting up to speed in my new role.

            2. BillieB*

              It’s the 80/20 rule – 80% of the work is accomplished by 20% of the staff. In this case, you were the 20%. Any good manager knows who their high performers are and what will happen to their department if they lose a high performer. There will be a disruption in productivity, and the affects may be temporary until they backfill your old position, or the team gets its act together. Document your requests of Old Team, but DO NOT take on any of their work. If they fail, it should be clear where the failure occurred.

        3. Appledumplinggang*

          Anon.
          Company has hired you for the new job. The new job has a job description. DO NOT LET OLD DEPT ISSUES BLEED INTO NEW DEPT/NEW JOB.

          That means you are no longer doing your old job. Company DOES NOT WANT YOU TO DO YOUR OLD JOB – if company did, then company would have given you more money or incentive to stay at old job.

          You must honour Company’s needs – regardless of what happens in old dept. It is not about ‘owing’ old dept anything – you were not an apprentice in a guild, you were not taken in uneducated, trained at great expense of the dept only to leave after two weeks.

          Your old tasks are now opportunities waiting for Old Dept members to take on. They will undertake this bootstrapping journey to self-sufficiency without you. Don’t let them use you as a crutch – you may think you are helping out, but really you are just keeping them helpless.

          There is a very interesting article in HBR this month about how women keep volunteering for duties that do not help them in their jobs -they do so out of guilt and because they think no one else will do them — but it turns out that is not entirely true. Someone will step up in old dept., eventually.

          1. birthdaycakeismyspirtanimal*

            This happened to me — someone left my group, then I got hired a month or two afterwards, and then it was like a video game where you have to jump for the golden coins. Find a need, let my manager know and suggest how to fix, fix and then pats on back. I was very, very, very glad that old person didn’t come back to help out !!!!

        4. Pam*

          You may also want to loop your new management on this now, so they can protect you from the demands of the old group.

    3. voyager1*

      Oh gosh I could have written this a few years ago. In short, no you shouldn’t feel guilty about leaving and yes your old team is in for a rude awakening.

      As for letting work just not get done, once you start being the one who gets things done you pretty much always have to be that person. Most managers aren’t going to think, “wow Anon was such a rock star and did the work of 5 people but guess she got burned out and left some stuff undone so guess we better pay these fines and crack the whip on the slackers so Anon doesn’t have to do everything” Nope they are not going to think that, they are just going to be mad at you and blame you.

      Glad to hear you are getting out, sounds like you have a good work ethic, hope you much success in your new role.

      1. Anon for this*

        Yes, that is exactly it! People would tell me, “Management isn’t going to fix anything as long as the work is getting done,” implying that it was my fault for getting the work done, but I highly doubt they would have fixed anything if I had just stopped getting the work done.

        1. Blue*

          This was my last job. And yeah, ideally, you and I both would’ve left the other team members to suffer and force management to do something, but I couldn’t leave things undone either. What’s done is done at this point, so I think you put it behind you, DON’T feel guilty about your former coworkers drowning without you (you paid your dues – it’s their turn to step up), and focus on your new role.

          Silver lining to all this: because I kicked booty in that job, I found a new job I’m pretty excited about. It sounds like you’re in the same position, so congrats and good luck!

          1. GibbsRule#18*

            I experienced something like this a couple of years ago but it was my boss who was the problem. She was so lazy, but she grew to expect that I would cover her work and cover for her. It got to the point where every evening I’d look at her calendar and remind her of the important meeting she had the next day. I was not her assistant, and it was not my job. It took me a while to realize that a. she was taking advantage of me and b. my extremely high stress level was due to her inaction. Once I realized all of this, I stopped reminding her about her meetings. It took exactly two days for her to not show up to a meeting SHE HAD CALLED with her boss and her bosses boss. The bosses assistant came and asked me where my boss was and I just shrugged and said I didn’t know. While it didn’t result in her shaping up, when I went to her boss and said I needed a new job, she got it and found me anther position in the organization. It was really hard for me to to stop doing things that would make our unit look good, but I’m so glad I did it.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, this sounds like a variation on “If you want something done, give it to the busiest person.” Both coworkers and management have determined that this works out great for them. Short term.

      3. Appledumplinggang*

        The quietly proactive are never recognized. Those that do are expected to do more.
        What is will probably happen is that three-four months after Anon is gone, there will be a meeting, someone will identify a few of the most needed undone tasks and an additional hire will be made to handle these items. Then the someone who identified (but did not take on any of the tasks) and requested the new hire will be made the new hires supervisor, and the someone will be given a job title bump and a raise.

        Because in business, being reactive gets you noticed. Coping with a crisis is sign of leadership. Quietly avoiding crisis in the first place just gets you written off as having a low-stress job.

    4. Sara*

      Do not feel guilty for being a responsible adult. You did the best you could with what you were given, but enabling lazy coworkers was pretty much the only solution. They created the problem you worked hard to solve, now they have to fix it themselves.

      Good luck in your new role!

    5. Good Luck*

      What’s done is done. Your team used you and your management failed you, knowing you would pick up their slack regardless of the extra stress it must have caused you. Now they’re going to have to change their ways or face the consequences. It’s time to move on and start looking forward to excelling in your new role! Good luck with your new team and don’t let what happened with your old one hold you back. Stand up for yourself in your new position and don’t fall back into old habits, but don’t let this experience continue to haunt you/worry about the “disservice”. You can hopefully have a fresh start, use it to your full advantage!

    6. Lora*

      I am in a highly regulated industry, and I’m telling you it’s management’s job to allocate work in a way that it gets done in time to meet the obligations. That includes anticipating vacations and having business continuity plans in case your best worker bee gets hit by a bus/wins the lottery.

      If management comes to the realization that they need to be more rigorous about accountability…well, some people learn primarily from personal experience. Weirdly, this seems to be MORE the case in highly regulated industries: I’ve told many many MANY people who have never been in an FDA audit / 483 remediation / Warning Letter remediation / Consent Decree Hell what exactly that is like and how not at all fun it is and all the things that happen which you can totally avoid if you stop doing dumb things immediately and get your act together. They almost never do, they sort of roll their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears and sing “LALALALA IT WON’T HAPPEN TO MEEEEEEE” right up until it happens to them.

      It feels a bit like the dynamic when an adult tells a teenager to put on a coat because it’s going to be cold, wear your seatbelt, make sure your phone is charged up, eat your vegetables, stop at two drinks, don’t drink and drive etc. – people will verbally acknowledge that these are all prudent and wise actions, but in real life they just…don’t. Then when the bad thing happens they are shocked, shocked!

      1. NW Mossy*

        Absolutely. The state of the department is exactly what management gets paid the intermediate bucks to be responsible for, and by abdicating their responsibility to hold employees accountable for poor results, they now have to face the consequences of that past failure. It will probably be painful for them, but it’s a problem of their making, not yours. Go forth into your new role with a clear conscience.

    8. Free Meerkats*

      In that position, you did what you needed to do for your own reasons. It’s not like management didn’t know what was going on. Now you aren’t going to be in that position anymore and they’ll manage somehow. It may involve pain, but that’s not your problem.

      Your take-away can be to listen to what your wise former coworker said. don’t become the only one (or one of the few) that makes sure all the t’s are dotted and the i’s are crossed – unless that’s what your job is. It may be uncomfortable, but you’ll manage.

    9. Alternative Person*

      I think you did the best you could with the tools you had. Situations like the one you describe are no-win for the hard worker because Cthulu help them, they care. Lazy co-workers are happy because they can collect their paycheck for even less effort and the manager is happy because they don’t have to deal with the problem.

    10. Wendy Anne*

      Don’t feel guilty for being a good employee. I’m currently looking for a new job and I know that when I leave, all my work will fall to an already overworked colleague. I feel bad that it will happen, but if I allowed my feelings to make my decision then I’d never leave. Perhaps you leaving will be the wake up call that management needs to do something about the slackers?

    11. AdAgencyChick*

      Yes, in retrospect, it probably wouldn’t have been a bad idea for you to let some balls drop. But that’s all in the past, and now you should turn a very deaf ear to cries for help while you’re in your new job. Since you’re at the same company, I bet you’re going to get a lot of requests to help tide things over. Practice saying, “Can’t help with that, I need to focus on my new duties” cheerfully but utterly firmly.

      And you should not feel guilty about leaving!

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Over thinking. We should all do our jobs to the best of our ability. You developed yourself and grew, now you have a new job because of your work ethic. You earned your paycheck while you were there . Others freeloaded off the system, but that is nothing under your control, nor was it part of your job to cure the freeloading.
      Of the good workers left behind, remember, no one came running over to you to rescue you. We each have to rescue ourselves. The good workers will have to find their own path just like you did.

    13. Observer*

      There is nothing you should have done differently. It would have been (somewhat) ok for you to not work so hard if you did not want to, but it was not your responsibility to insure reasonable work distribution. That is what managers are for! (Although take it as a lesson for when YOU are in some sort of management role – failing to address issues is easier in the short term, but creates problems in the longer term.)

      As for your coworkers, be glad your leaving people like that. You do not owe them anything, and you have no reason to feel guilty. The “rude awakening” they are in for is totally THEIR problem, and not yours in the least bit.

    14. Artemesia*

      So what? That they are slackers and that management is incompetent is not your problem. Don’t take on the emotional load for other people’s failings. This will be a lovely learning moment for the manager who allowed this to happen. Let’s hope it keeps him or her up at nights.

    15. LilySparrow*

      I think you don’t need to feel guilty. You’re right that you were helping to enable a dysfunctional and unsustainable situation. But the ultimate responsibility doesn’t lie with you – that’s on management. And yes, I do think it would have been appropriate to set boundaries on your workload and time at work, inform management of the things that were going to go undone, and then let them deal with the consequences if they weren’t done.

      That’s the manager’s job.

      It’s a good learning opportunity about setting boundaries – it’s actually better for the organization in the long run.

      And if your old department’s dysfunction interferes with your new job, that’s for your new manager to deal with.

    16. OhBehave*

      To answer your question, yes, you should have held back. I totally understand your viewpoint. It’s got to be done or else. That’s the danger of picking up the slack for others. You leave and now what? Well, management will finally realize they need to MANAGE and hold people accountable for their piece of the pie. Hitting them in the bank account will bring this to a head.
      If you have anything to do with training your replacement, I would warn them about this. You may not want to name names, (they will figure it out on their own!), but a word to them would be good. Stick to the job duties that are actually yours.

  9. Meredith Brooks*

    How can I be a more positive thinker and see the good in folks?

    Frequently I see Alison giving folks the benefit of the doubt and mentioning the good in people. And while I’m not a complete pessimist, I have trouble accepting the goodness of management (and sometimes people in general). Perhaps it’s because I’ve been on the wrong side of the stick a few times or it might be that I’m not looking hard enough. So, I ask you fine folk — what tips, tricks, words of advice, or soliloquies do all y’all have that might benefit a somewhat overly logical, realist who wants to be a more positive person?

    1. ZSD*

      I think the fact that you WANT to see people more positively is a good first step. Now maybe you can build a habit of double-checking yourself when you realize you’re assuming the worst about someone. “Instead of laziness forgetfulness, is it possible this person is late for this meeting for a good reason?” Etc.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Following this thread. I, too, consider myself a cynical realist and have very little faith in humanity these days.

      1. General Ginger*

        Same. I really want to look on the bright side, but it’s just getting harder and harder.

      2. Mad Baggins*

        Me too, I could have written this–I’m happy it seems to be a skill we can learn!

    3. Temperance*

      I’m not one of those “look on the bright side” / “everyone is trying their best” types of people, and I think that’s okay. My boss is that type, and I think it’s helpful to have both perspectives (so does she).

      I try to be slightly more positive, but I draw the line at making up motivations that might explain crap behavior, if that makes sense.

    4. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      It helps me to remember most people aren’t doing things AT me, it just happens to affect me (Captain Awkward has a lot of good advice on this). Also, there are a million different reasons why something could have occurred the way it did, and I don’t know the whole story behind anything. Especially with management – there’s so much that I just don’t know that is within their scope. And I don’t need to know all of it, but if I have a decent boss, I remind myself to trust that she will let me know if something affects me.

    5. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      This is more for in general, but I think it can carry over a little.

      I live by Mr Rogers’ philosophy: Look for the people running in.

      Whenever there’s a disaster, for example, I try to find stories about the people running in to help. Or organizations supporting the causes I do. It takes effort to find the positive (or less negative) stories, but they’re out there.

      And I don’t know if there’s a scientific reason or anything, but I’ve found that when I incorporate more positive news/stories/etc, the less awful everything feels. Is the current news cycle still depressing for me? Of course it is. But I don’t let it drag me down because I know there’s people running in to help. And that gives me hope.

      1. Mad Baggins*

        I really like this. Instead of thinking about how awful it is that we have A Problem, and how could people have let this happen, and now everything is going to be terrible now and forever, I’m going to try to think about the people running in to solve it. And try to be the kind of person Mr. Rogers believed I could be.

    6. Natalie*

      Ages and ages ago, during a volunteer training, they had us do an exercise where we came up with 6 possible explanations for some given bit of behavior. The point wasn’t to decide *why*, or even guess at it, but more to routinely remind oneself that you can’t really know someone’s underlying intentions or motivations and they can range widely.

    7. writelhd*

      write down the things people teach you, when they do something that you can learn from.

    8. Sunflower*

      I also consider myself a realist but the way I see it is that everything anyone does is to benefit themselves. I don’t mean that they are maliciously out trying to cause harm to people- just that they are so focused on themselves, they don’t realize the consequences of their actions impact other people. I think what might help is to keep the focus on yourself- that doesn’t mean climbing to the top and not caring who you hurt along the way. It just means doing what is best for you even if it’s not ‘best’ for everyone else. I think maybe something that would help is to speak up and advocate for yourself more if you don’t already do that.

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        You and I are in the same boat my friend. I don’t speak up for myself much, so you’re probably right in that if I advocated more for myself, I would be less concerned about the actions of others.

        1. Sunflower*

          I’m also trying to get better at advocating for myself. I realize how many people at work(and in life) get things because they ask for them. I need to talk myself down sometimes of the consequences of asking- I fear if I ask and get told no, I’ll get labeled as needy or difficult. It’s a struggle but I’m trying to let those thoughts go and take small steps- just yesterday I asked my boss to reassign something and it felt amazing! I recommend picking up ‘Your Erroneous Zones’ by Wayne Dyer. It helps me put into perspective of how much our feelings are affected by things other people do as opposed to what we ourselves do. I’d recommend grabbing it from the library.

      2. CTT*

        I was going to say something along these lines. I have a friend who takes others’ incompetence very personally: someone waits to long to email back, it’s because they’re messing with her; painters hired to renovate the building do a crappy job, it’s because the administration doesn’t give a shit; etc. I try to commiserate but also be semi-positive, because I tend to think that most people aren’t trying to actively screw someone over, they’re just not great at their job or don’t prioritize well, or sometimes really are a jerk. But I think in these instances “seeing the best in people” might be better understood as bad behavior isn’t necessarily malicious.

        1. fposte*

          This week’s Ask Polly was really good on this. I liked this quote a lot: “I used to think that when I was angry or frustrated or something went wrong, that meant someone somewhere had screwed up or wronged me. This is an offshoot of believing you’re in control of everything: If things go wrong, it’s either your fault or someone else’s. SHIT DOESN’T JUST HAPPEN.” (Which, as she then explains, is of course not true.)

          Link to full article in followup.

            2. Specialk9*

              That’s a powerful concept. And I think this is a real fallacy that others think about us as much as we do, and thus their actions reflect them choosing to do us harm.

              Another fallacy is that most people believe that *I* make mistakes because of a really good reason, but *others* make mistakes because they’re bad people.

          2. Actuarial Octagon*

            Thank you for this! I have been forever confused by my mother’s anger about certain circumstances and I think it is because she very much feels this way and I very much do not.

      3. Manders*

        This is a great point. A lot of the time, when I’m feeling very resentful, it’s because I haven’t actually spoken up about what I need.

    9. LQ*

      I think that you don’t always have to think oh they are Good People. You can think, they are people doing their best and they might be misguided, they might not have all the information (I might not/likely don’t have all the information), they might have a different strategy. I rarely think people are Good. But I think a lot of people are trying, or doing what they can given the information they have and the tools they have, or people have more important things in their lives than their work that distracts them.

      Assuming people are Bad isn’t really realistic. Assuming they and you may not agree or have the same fundamental understandings of a situation is realistic.
      (I hope that helps. I have days where I can use this more or less.)

      1. Manders*

        Yes, this is what I do. I think trying to convince yourself that everyone’s inherently good isn’t the right way to look at people, because then when they do something bad or even just thoughtless, it feels like a betrayal. But if you can believe that everyone’s the hero of their own story, and they’re making decisions that seem like the right choice to them in the moment, it’s easier to accept that they’re not actively being malicious.

        I also think it’s a good idea to take a hard look at your news and media consumption if you’re constantly getting into a cycle of thinking everyone’s either great or terrible. Social media in particular can make it too easy to sort people into the “perfect” or “trash” categories based on their best or worst public moments.

        1. fposte*

          Oh, I totally agree with that! That binary approach is pernicious as hell.

          The thing I remember, too, is that we’re all somebody’s “other people.” We’re all inexplicably frustrating or distressing somebody at some point. There’s a cognitive bias whose name I’ve forgotten, where if you’re rushed and driving to work and cut somebody off you think “Oops, that was awkward; fortunately I’m usually a really courteous driver” and if somebody cuts you off you think “Self-entitled asshole!” And the truth for pretty much all of us is somewhere in between.

        2. Mad Baggins*

          This is super helpful. Meditation Minis has a meditation podcast on thinking about other people as just little kids, doing the best they can trying to figure things out. I really like this attitude.

    10. gecko*

      1. It can be easier if you feel like you have some measure of control or power in a situation. Not “over” someone, but for instance having enough control over your environment to say, ok I can leave this situation if I need to.

      2. I hope that you give yourself the benefit of the doubt. When you cut off another car in traffic, or you have to tell someone at work “no I can’t help with that”–you have your reasons and you’re not going on and on about how annoying you are, right? (I really hope you do that.) Other people are doing the same thing.

      3. You need emotional energy to put that energy into being empathetic.

      4. As Natalie said, put some thought into reasons why some person may have acted some way. You may come out at the end still having not much sympathy for them, but you might have a bit more empathy and be able to perceive them in a deeper way.

      5. Read or listen to books. That really genuinely exercises the empathy muscle, particularly if they have fairly three-dimensional villains–Jane Austen, for instance–and particularly if you go into it interested in thinking about the characters.

      6. I think the biggest thing is to recognize when you’re looking at a situation cynically. Cynicism is as much a biased point of view as Pollyanna-nism, and if you pause for a moment to see if you can come to a more balanced perspective, that would do a lot.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Just my theory but the way we see others is tied to how we see ourselves. Practice talking nicely to yourself. If you make a mistake and tell yourself, “Dumb ass, what did you do that for?” then stop. Correct yourself to say, “Phew, at least I caught this error, now I will fix it.”

        We can’t give to others what we don’t give ourselves. It’s too hard.

    11. Deryn*

      This may or may not be exactly what you are dealing with, but I’ll throw it out there for what it’s worth. Several years back I was getting really worked up (internally) over negative things, and I somehow came to this realization that for a lot of things (though not all things) that I was getting upset and stressed about, being upset and stressed didn’t change anything. Sitting and ruminating on it and venting about it only changed one thing – it made ME feel worse. After realizing this, I made a conscious effort to notice when those feelings were popping up and to take a second to pause and mentally say to myself, “That sucks, but I can’t change it. I wish it wasn’t like that, and now I need to move my thoughts to something else.” In sort of a mindfulness-type way, I found myself more and more able to have a negative thought and then just move on, rather than obsessing over it. It took a LOT of practice and a LONG time to be able to do this automatically. And sometimes it still doesn’t work. When the “situation” is actually a person, I try to stop myself and think of a few reasons why they might be doing that/acting like that, or a time I did something similar. Again, it’s taken so much practice to make this a true habit and I’m still working on it. Also, this clearly doesn’t work in every situation. Some things you can AND SHOULD be upset about!

      As far as management specifically, have you known any good management? I have found it helpful to remind myself of the people I have found to be good and good-intentioned, and that they can’t be the ONLY ones. Thinking something like, “Meredith was a great manager, and there are definitely more Merediths out there. Maybe they aren’t here now, but they’re definitely out there,” helps to lower my blood pressure s smidge :)

    12. mayfly*

      I see optimism and looking for the good as defiance against the bad in my workplace. I’m not letting the way others conduct themselves change how I approach my life and work. Also, I don’t expect people to be good all the time, or even most of the time. I don’t think they’re bad, per se, but weak, self-serving and frequently oblivious. And since I struggle with these things, too, I can empathize better.
      In addition, I find that the straight-up jerks are usually desperately trying to use their career to make up for some deep lack in their lives, and they need to fill that gaping hole in their souls so badly that they will perform terrible feats of jerkiness to get promoted, make more money, exert more power, etc. Doesn’t make them fun to work with, but it takes some of the sting out of their jerkiness.

    13. matcha123*

      I hope for the best, but won’t be surprised at the worst. I basically know what could be wrong, but hope that this time something good could happen. It’s about 50/50, and I try not to dwell too much on the “wrongs.”
      It might help to think about the things you could let go easily or slide, and let those smaller things be washed away when/if they happen. That way, it’s more about the big things that go wrong and since those should hopefully be less frequent, you can deal with them better…?

    14. Jadelyn*

      I too am pretty cynical and take a more realist/pragmatic view of the world – you’d never describe me as an optimist. So for me it’s less about “looking for the good in people” and more about “reminding myself of the fundamental attribution error” – basically, when you look at your own behavior, you attribute it to your circumstances, but when you look at someone else’s behavior, you attribute it to their inherent personality.

      It’s the difference between “I snapped at my coworker because I’m stressed about this deadline” and “he snapped at his coworker because he’s a jerk who’s short with people.”

      So mostly I just remind myself that I’m not psychic (at least no more so than your average admin is expected to be), I don’t know what’s going on in that person’s head or in their life, and there might be explanations I’m unaware of. It doesn’t make me see good in people where there may or may not be good to see, but it reminds me to take a step back and be patient in assessing someone’s behavior, rather than jumping to the harshest judgment.

    15. ErgoBun*

      As a manager myself, I can say that generally management is making the decisions they are making for a reason, and sometimes it’s because management has a perspective (or a pressure!) that you aren’t seeing. That’s management’s job. Not everyone is great at it, but we are trying to respond to our own managers and other business decisions that our employees maybe aren’t a part of.

      See if you can get your management to explain their perspective on decisions — not in an adversarial, “why are you doing this to me?!??” way, but from a place of wanting to understand. This will benefit you in the long run, because managers really appreciate employees who have a bit of perspective outside of the guardrails of their daily tasks.

    16. Falling Diphthong*

      One thing I find really helpful, here and elsewhere, is when someone can come up with a story that puts weird behavior in perspective. “That sounds like me five years ago, when X.” To borrow from upthread, it’s like the difference between being snapped at by someone, and when they act the same but you know they have a fading parent, ill teen, and unemployed spouse to cope with at home and our on the fraying threads of their last nerve. I still think actions matter over intentions, but if you can get at the weird logic behind something it helps make it more tolerable.

    17. Aurélia*

      I don’t know about the goodness in people, but last year was tough and a counselor recommended “The Four Agreements” which was a little hokey but I really appreciated the central sentiments:
      1) Be impeccable with your word
      2) Don’t take anything personally
      3) Don’t make assumptions
      4) Always do your best
      These have led me to be more positive. Most things crappy people do are b/c they are crappy! Taking things less personally has made me happier. It can be tough, but if I take a deep breath and think about it I can usually let things go and feel more peaceful.

      1. fposte*

        I think “don’t take anything personally” is really key there. Most of the time it isn’t personal and you don’t gain anything by treating it as if it were, and when it is, there can be a big emotional and pragmatic advantage in not engaging with that direction anyway.

        1. Meredith Brooks*

          But I wonder sometimes if we take “don’t take it personally” too far? If someone is treating you poorly, that’s personal, regardless of whether the intent is personal, the action and aftermath certainly are.

          1. nonymous*

            I think the point of the cliche is to focus on problem solving. So if my dog is repeatedly digging up my prizewinning flowers, yeah that’s not personal, but I should definitely put in a better boundary. But because it’s not personal, I’m not going to scold my pup for hours and expect him to apologize profusely.

          2. Natalie*

            Yeah, I don’t read “don’t take it personally” as “let people do whatever they want”. The point is that they probably aren’t doing [whatever] because they really hate you, Meredith Brooks, and are plotting your demise by head explosion. And if they were, god forbid, that wouldn’t make a difference because it doesn’t change how you react. If someone is treating you poorly deal with the behavior, not the intent or motivation.

    18. NW Mossy*

      I once had an employee similar to you, and her negativity ultimately got so strong that I ended up doing some very serious coaching with her on it because it was hurting her working relationships. To her everlasting credit, she put the effort in and genuinely turned it around to a level that absolutely stunned me, and she later said to me that doing it was one of the best things she’d ever done for herself.

      We focused her plan primarily on changing how she communicated with other people, because her lack of trust in others was showing up in snarky emails and a prickly demeanor. We talked about specific phrases to use to get herself into a more collaborative, accepting state of mind – things like “I can see why we’d want to do that” (when responding to a change), “Can you help me understand why that didn’t work?” (when responding to negative feedback), or “Oh, thanks for explaining, that makes sense” (when absorbing new info). We also talked about getting off email and into face-to-face conversations more, because that helps a lot with seeing the person on the other end as a full human, not just an irritation machine.

      Initially, it was really hard for her to use those phrases – they felt unnatural and stilted. But what she found was that as she used them, she started getting warmer reactions from colleagues and having more positive outcomes. As these accumulated, the relationships got better and they rebuilt the lost trust that was underpinning her general pessimism. It was a very cool virtuous circle and it happened really quickly – just a few weeks was all it took to start seeing results.

      While I have not read this book, she also found Adam Grant’s “Give and Take” really helpful along the way. It’s focused on how people form working relationships, and she said it gave her really good insight into how other people might think differently from her.

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        I won’t lie, I have had days where the snarky leaked out. But, since I’m a people pleaser at heart, I take my cynicism/realism and shove it into a little box while I’m talking to others and generally always try to appear friendly, helpful, and supportive – even when I’m feeling the opposite.

    19. HannahS*

      I think if you see your own assessment as being overly logical and realistic, you’re not really acknowledging to yourself that you could be wrong, you know? Using that kind of language within your own head sets you up to see optimism as unrealistic and delusional, and it will be hard for you to change your own mind if you don’t change your language. So I think you have to change your inner monologue. Challenge yourself, argue with yourself–when you make an assessment about someone, think about why you could be wrong.

    20. Little Bean*

      When I was in graduate school, my cohort was having a retreat to set our expectations for ourselves as a class and someone said “assume the best”. It’s simple but it stuck with me. To me, this just means that, before you assume a person is being rude or inconsiderate or not valuing your time or whatever, you first assume that maybe they don’t have all the information, or maybe YOU don’t have all the information that would make their actions make sense. If you ask the follow up questions, or you have the same experiences repeatedly with the same person and they are still being a jerk, then at that point it is fair to conclude that they are just a jerk. But in my experience, this is actually really rare.

      It also helps that I have been in positions where I have to tell other people no to things and because they are not in my role, they don’t understand why. To them, it’s just one simple request and it would only take a minute so why can’t I just do it? Because there are literally hundreds of other people who would ask for me for the same thing if they could. But if all you know is that you made a simple request and got turned down, it’s easy to assume the worst (that I’m a jerk who doesn’t like to help people) instead of the best (that I’m prioritizing and doing the best I can with the limited resources I have).

    21. Accidental Analyst*

      Put yourself in their position. If you said or did what they did what might be some of the reasons do that. Eg they might have brushed off your request for help. If that was you could it be that there were competing requests and the other requests had higher priority etc

      If you’re able to come up with a couple of reasonable explanations for why you would/could act like that good. It doesn’t mean you have to accept bad behaviour. But it may help how you approach things. You always brush me off vs I know there are a lot of demands on your time but I really need help with x. How to we make it happen

    22. Frankie*

      You know, for me it’s pretty centrally about humility and not assuming your assumptions or ideas about a person or situation are necessarily correct. So in a scenario where you find yourself thinking the worst, distrusting, or judging, what are the alternate explanations available?

      People don’t always run around with the best of intentions, but I do think it’s true that a lot of conflict and unhappiness comes from misunderstanding and miscommunication. I’ve been told that most people are doing their best to get through the day, and I think there’s some merit in that idea, although some people definitely get through the day on destructive impulses towards others.

    23. birthdaycakeismyspirtanimal*

      If you want to live in a world where people acknowledge best work, you have to acknowledge best work.
      If you want to encourage best work, you should acknowledge best work.

      Most of the time it is the system that failed us, not the people in the system. When people help me defeat the system, I make it known that it got done because of XXX. Basically, I make them famous in our group. And then the thanks are not just coming from me to XXX. And always cc XXX’s manager.

    24. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

      I’m somewhat like you, and I sometimes see Alison’s advice as “act as though you’re giving someone the benefit of the doubt, even if you’re not.” Like, adopt a tone that says we’re all reasonable adults and of course we want to find a solution to this problem that’s good for all of us; but sometimes the person “sucks and isn’t going to change.”

      Captain Awkward’s recent “Rule Explainer” post talked about the dark side of giving the benefit of the doubt (specifically in the case of mental health issues).

  10. Discouraged and Tired*

    I’m feeling incredibly discouraged at work. My manager(who I didn’t get along with and was clueless) just left- shes my second manager in 2 years(both were asked to leave) so clearly my company has issues hiring for the role. She gave me a not great annual review before she left and I feel that was the reason I didn’t get promoted(jobs don’t need to open up for us to be promoted). My interim manager went through my review with me and was surprised- she thought the parts I was rated poorly on were unfair and that I do a lot more than people think I do but all she could offer was that she is pushing for another review in 6 months- can’t promise anything. Now that we are without a manager for a bit, I am being asked to take on a lot more responsibilities and being told it’s a great chance to show my skills. Well I already did this last year. When this happened the first time.

    I just want to put my head down and do the minimum while I’m looking for a new job. But since we’re short staffed, I can’t really do that. I’m so aggravated that I don’t deserve to be promoted yet I am now for the second time in a year, being given the reigns of a job that is 3 steps above my current level. I’m tired of having no one advocate for my team. I may just lose my mind on my interim boss if I schedule another meeting with her and let it all out UGH

    1. Meredith Brooks*

      There is no reason why you can’t look for a new job. They will survive if you leave and if they can’t, then there are bigger problems here that a) are not your issue and b) all the more reason for you to leave.

      1. A username for this site*

        I interpreted it to mean, we’re short staffed so I can’t do the minimum because the minimum right now is so overwhelming.

    2. Friday*

      This actually would look pretty good for you when you’re interviewing… you can say (without negative emotion) that there’s been a lot of turnover in your manager’s role and you’ve been doing XYZ tasks to fill in, and you’d like to move into this role yourself to continue these tasks. And the subtext would be, “but at a stronger company that doesn’t have such a revolving door.” To drive that subtext home, I’d then ask about how long the teammates and management on your would-be team at New Company have been there.

      2. Discouraged and Tired*

        Thanks, I’ve been interviewing and struggle when I come to the ‘why are you looking’ question. I’ve been forming some sort of ‘well I’ve basically been doing my manager’s job for the past year’ but this is great wording!

    3. DaniCalifornia*

      Honestly if you feel like you’re going to blow up at your interim manager (who I assume hasn’t been anything but decent to you) could you schedule a meeting with whoever is the higher up? Your grandboss or however the org chart flows? You could tell them you’d like to get promoted, the interim manager doesn’t agree with your previous managers review (and perhaps they’ll agree if they asked your manager to leave), here’s how you contribute currently, and how should you do that/what does the timeline look like? Worst case the situation stays the same and you keep job searching. If they won’t accept promoting good workers from within then you know it’ll be time to leave!

      I do feel you on this. One of my former managers was opening a new location/dealing with her husband’s cancer. She was rarely in office and taught me 99% of her duties/job. I did them for half of a year. We FINALLY got an interim manager and she was so surprised that all paperwork/reports/etc were up to date. I told her I did them and would like to apply for the job. She gave me a good reference but then our stupid corporate office “reclassified” everyone and said you couldn’t apply for manager jobs until you had been level 1, and level 2. I had been doing level 1 and 2 work for two years I just didn’t have that title. I was pissed. I had to train my new manager. I tried applying for every level 2 job that opened and they wouldn’t accept me. So I left. I learned so much from that experience.

    4. Halmsh*

      You should ask to be compensated for doing additional work and work above your pay grade. Lay out your usual work responsibilities and what you’re being asked to do on top. If they aren’t willing to compensate you more, you could also go the route of “I’m unable to to X, Y, and Z, can you direct me what should drop off my plate?” to whoever your manager stand-in is.

      1. Thlayli*

        Yes! I’m always shocked when people say they’ve taken on their managers role for months in between managers without any additional compensation. Ask for interim compensation for the interim period that you are doing the additional work.

    5. CatCat*

      Would the interim manager be a reference for you? She seems familiar with your work.

      “I am interested in moving into a higher level role. This is the second time I’ve taken on a high level responsibility in the absence of a manager and I’ve shown I am up to handling that effectively. Since you are familiar with my capabilities, would you be willing to serve as a reference for me?”

      This only works if this is not the kind of place that fires you for looking for another job. But you know if you’re in that kind of place.

    6. Observer*

      Take on the responsibilities. For one thing, you are not really being “asked”, so you might as well make it look good.

      Also, start job searching and highlight the work that you actually did. So, even though your job title is Teapot Maker, not that you also acted as Teapot designer while the company was looking to fill the role.

      In other words, while this may not help you get promoted in THIS job, it can help you find your next job. And, it will also leave a good impression with people you might meet up again in the future. While you may not care about the incompetent manager you lost, you probably do want leave a positive memory with interim manager who seems like she is reasonably competent, for instance.

    7. BillieB*

      I was in a somewhat similar situation, and I ended up changing jobs. I had 4 bosses in the last 18 months I was with that job, and one those bosses gave me a poor performance review just before he left the company. Your situation sounds like a symptom of poor leadership from Grandboss and above. If they’re having trouble keeping a manager in place, they’re either hiring badly or driving people away. Neither is good for you. I know this isn’t an easy solution, but pay attention to the writing on the wall and keep your eye out for outside opportunities.

  11. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    How do you stay professional at work when your clothes just don’t fit?

    I’ve lost now 55 pounds, but got behind on some bills and am now caring for my wife for a few weeks after the last of a series of surgeries on her leg. So, I am at the point of barely being able to pay parking fees to park and go to work, let alone buy different clothes, and I am not sure I have time to go.

    Trouble is, even though my loss is slow, I have been packing muscle onto my shoulders and calves, while dropping like crazy from my waist. I literally can barely keep my pants up, but I can’t spare the 30-40 for new work pants! Not to mention that pants already fit funny because I’m oddly shaped now.

    Sorry for the rant. I want to continue the loss since my health is much better, but oh my god, the clothes problems!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Could you pick up a few pieces at a nearby thrift store (particularly if you can find one in/near an upscale neighborhood)?

      1. SoCalHR*

        I was going to suggest this as well, I just got a couple of name brand work pants at Goodwill for $7 because I have the same “problem”.

      2. careergal*

        I did this when I lost weight and was broke. I also looked for garage sales and the clearance rack in consignment stores.

        1. Hamburke*

          Yes this! My husband got work pants from a neighbor who was retiring. Neighbor noticed that he was buying up all the khakis at the community yard sale and he brought over another bag the next day.

    2. There is a Life Outside the Library*

      Weight changes are always rough when it comes to the work clothes. I know you said money is tight, but have you checked your local thrift/Goodwill? I’ve actually been able to snag quite a few blazers, skirts and pants for work there for weight fluctuations.

    4. MuseumChick*

      Have you thought about having some of your cloths altered? It can be cheaper than buying new clothes and if you select just a few piece it might be enough to carry you through until you are able to buy new clothes. Better yet, if you have a friend who is good a sewing they might be able to do it for free.

      2. WellRed*

        Yes, alter a few select pieces to carry through. Nothing feels worse than ill-fitting pants.

      3. This Liz Sews-not for free*

        But don’t expect the friend to do it for free, let them make that offer.

      4. Mimosa Jones*

        Alterations will help for a drop of up to two sizes (about 2 inches) but will look wonky for anything larger than that. Although, you could alter them from ‘really big’ to ‘a little big.’ For pants, if you’re making a 2” change, it will look best if you take a little off the sides as well as the back, which probably means having it do me by a professional. Darts can also help reduce volume in specific areas.

        Lots of children’s pants come with an elastic back that is adjusted with buttons at the sides. It allows the waist to be loosened as the child grows, but you could use it in reverse. You can buy this elastic in fabric stores (it has button holes) and make the alterations yourself with hand sewing.

    5. Fishsticks*

      If you can’t do a thrift store, would it be possible to alter your pants yourself? (ex. put some stitches in the waistband to make it smaller?) I did a quick google “sewing waistline smaller on pants” and both Youtube videos and articles popped up. There are tutorials that include no sewing machine use in case you don’t have one!

      2. This Liz Sews-not for free*

        1 inch elastic is your friend. open up a small slit in the waist band at either side, feed in the elastic, take up the slack, and tack in place with some angry stitches (big honking ugly ones).
        You will be good to go for now and when more more inches come off, you can tighten the elastic further, hence the angry stitches.
        Yes, easier said than done but my husband figured it out and did a decent job on his.

      3. Quickbeam*

        When I was dead broke (had Food Free Tuesdays) I taught myself to alter my clothes by hand. No machine, just did the physics of how the seams needed to come in. A seam ripper, needle and thread. If you have an analytical eye, you can do it.

        1. Specialk9*

          The trick is to turn your clothes inside out, pin them, and then you can use some chalk to create a line. Then you sew along the line.

          There are fancier versions that involve removing and then reattaching the waistband, but this will get you close enough.

          1. Mad Baggins*

            I just did this to alter the fit of my pants. Sewing machine was $20 at the recycle shop, used binder clips instead of pins so I could try the pants on without poking myself, followed tutorials on YouTube, was done in under an hour. It’s much easier than I thought!

    6. AspiringAdvocate*

      Thrifting is a weight-loss godsend. It’s frustrating to spend money on clothes you’ll have to keep replacing as you lose weight, but getting cheap staples from a place like Goodwill (which you can also order from online!) is imo the best way to minimize the financial impact.

    7. Natalie*

      Do you have any similar sized friends that might have some clothes you can borrow, or even have? You can wear the same pair of pants every day. I promise, no one will notice unless they are hot pink or something.

      Also (my apologies if I’m misremembering your gender presentation) but IMO skirts and dresses are a lot more forgiving of weight fluctuations, especially around the waist. So if you have any of those, lean on them heavily now.

      Lastly, move the stuff that really, genuinely never fits out of your closet/dresser. That constant “I’ll wear this, oops, never mind, I forgot it doesn’t fit anymore” experience in the morning is aggravating.

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Thanks! I hate dresses and skirts but when I see my friend in a few weeks if I don’t have clothese by then, i’ll talk to her. She dresses amazingly and we are close size now.

        But, even my UNDERWEAR no longer fits. My tops are pretty forgiving but the rest of it…nope.

        1. Natalie*

          Maybe try Marshall’s or Target for underwear? I think you find a week’s worth for $20 or less. It doesn’t need to be cute, just do the job for the moment!

            1. Traffic_Spiral*

              I’d advise against ordering when you’re changing sizes – too much risk of not getting the size right.

        2. govt_drone*

          Not sure where you live, but check out Craigslist or FreeCycle. Peopel regularly give clothes and such away for free to anyone who will come pick them up.
          If you’re in NYC/SF/another major city check out the Queer Exchange facebook group – loads of people giving away all sorts of clothes and other things on there.

    8. seahorsesarecute*

      Congrats on losing weight! A couple of ideas came to mind;
      Second hand shops that have business clothes, especially if you are still losing.
      A tailor can take in pants and make your things be wearable longer while you lose at a fraction of the cost of new.
      If you really can’t afford either option right now, I bet there are YouTube videos to show you how to alter clothes, even down to the very beginner stuff of showing how to thread a needle.

    9. Andy*

      I have really good luck doing ISO (In Search Of) posts on Craigslist and Facebook Yard Sale sites for my neighborhood. Lots of times people don’e post the stuff they have lying around, but they’ll respond to an ISO request. I do ISOs for adult and kids clothes.

    10. Becky*

      Besides the thrift/second hand store suggestions–you might also want to try a consignment shop where you can get credit for things that no longer fit and then use that credit for other things that fit better.

      Congrats on your success in your health and fitness journey so far!

    11. Afiendishthingy*

      I feel your pain. I have gained about 25 pounds in the last six months (since I went off my ADHD meds), which is fine, but none of my old pants or bras fit. Luckily I know a great little consignment store where almost every item is under $20 and in great condition. Gonna go check Kohl’s this weekend for cheap bras.

      I don’t know if you wear dresses, but I’ve been able to keep wearing all of my old ones. I hate shopping for pants no matter what size I’m wearing, but they’re often necessary in my work.

    12. Deryn*

      This might be out of your comfort zone, or not possible where you are, but I’m an avid follower of my city’s subreddit and I often see people asking if anyone has any extra [insert item]. You could try posting on your city’s sub (if you have one) and explain your situation and see if anyone has any professional pants in your size that they would be willing to part with for cheap (or free). I am often blown away by the generosity I see on those types of threads. Also, some charities provide professional clothing! Dress for Success is one for women that I know off the top of my head, but in my city I know there are a few more general community programs that offer professional clothing as well. You might call a local organization and see if they provide that service or know of anyone that does.

    13. Anna Canuck*

      Look around online and see if there’s a charity that hooks people up with work appropriate clothes. You can probably do a swap there for free. Salvation Army would probably let you swap, as well, if you’re willing to swallow your pride and admit your situation.

      You’re doing amazing. 55 lb is a LOT.

    14. ket*

      I recently joined a neighborhood Facebook group and people are often selling or giving away clothes, baby stuff, yard stuff, etc. If you have a neighborhood Facebook group you could do an ISO post. The Facebook-y thing to do would be to humblebrag that you lost a lot of weight & you want some inexpensive options as you continue on your journey ;) but you can also skip that ritual!

      1. King Friday XIII*

        Similarly, see if there’s a Buy Nothing group for your area! Asking is encouraged and it’s always free.

    15. TheWonderGinger*

      I am in a similar boat, lost two dress sizes in 5 months and just don’t have the cash for a whole new wardrobe. I like to check out the chain consignment shops i.e. Style Encore (Plato’s Closet’s Big Sister store) and Clothes Mentor. I take my too big stuff in and get a few new pieces. I also hit up thrift stores and get stuff altered (but my bff mom is a seamstress so that’s a cheap option for me). I find that a fashion-y belt can make too big dresses and tops look more polished as well.

      That said, I would be happy to send my too big stuff too you!!! I have 13/14 Long and a lot of L/XL tops and dresses!!!!

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Thanks so much, but I am 5’1”! If you have 13 regular, I can wear that, but otherwise it might be dragging on the floor :)

          1. BF50*

            Hemming pants is substantially easier than taking them in, as long as they aren’t either flared or super slim at the ankles. It is helpful to have someone pin them for you, but a very simple stitch can make too long pants fit fairly quickly and that’s an alteration that even a beginner can cand sew by themselves. Unless it’s jeans, you don’t even need a sewing machine.

            1. Anonymouse*

              I put on some black slacks that I had not worn in a while and found that the girth I had lost translated into 3 or 4 inches of cloth beyond my feet. But I needed to wear them that day (can’t remember the occasion but I needed something nicer than jeans) so I found some masking tape and did a quick “hem”. Worked great for that day.

              1. BF50*

                You can also staple or glue. There is also an iron on hemming tape that doesn’t hold super well, but it’s cheap and should last through a couple of washes.

    16. DaniCalifornia*

      Good for you! Is there a friend or relative you could ask who looks like they’re your size if they have anything they professional that they don’t wear anymore? Many people keep clothes for so long.

      I would also try garage sales, thrift stores, or clothing resale stores that offer gently used nicer clothes at discount prices.

    17. Biscuits*

      Re: Goodwills/thrifts – call your local stores and see when they have their half off or $.99 days. And if possible, go early. My Goodwill has half off & $.99 on Sunday’s and the parking gets crazy and the racks congested really quick, but when you find a $5 wool Theory suit.. it’s worth it.

      1. Chaordic One*

        A lot of the used clothing stores in my area have “bag sales.” Anything you can fit into a paper or plastic grocery bag and you pay $5.00.

    18. Fabulous*

      Congrats on the weight loss!!! I second altering clothes, but I know this can be easier said than done. I’ve been sewing for many years and have my own machine, but I know other people aren’t that lucky. Check with your friends though! Pants are the easiest to take in; it’s literally just sewing a line down the side or back. Also, I highly recommend suspenders. You can get them pretty cheaply at Party City, and they usually have black and white options too.

    19. Pollygrammer*

      I know ThredUp is suggested a lot here, but it really is an amazing resource. Put in your sizes, and sort price low>high. If you’re willing to accept “good enough,” then you’ll probably find some stuff starting around $2.99.

      I’m a little weird-shaped and I wear a lot of longer cardigans, which hide a lot of those-pants-really-don’t-fit-in-the-hips.

    20. Astrid*

      Have you checked to see if there is a Dress for Success or its equivalent in your area? There is no Dress for Success in my hometown, but I noticed that the local food bank has a section devoted to office clothes (free of charge).

      1. Astrid*

        Actually, I checked the mission statement for Dress for Success and it’s different from what I remember. You may want to check out Ready for Success (readyforsuccessmn.org), this seems a bit more personalized.

    21. Cascadia*

      Seconding all the comments for goodwill/thred-up/consignment stores, etc. Also consider selling some of your better clothes that don’t fit anymore, and use that money to buy other clothes. I also wanted to add to join your local neighborhood’s “buy nothing” facebook group. My group is constantly posting clothing options and it’s FREE!

      1. TCPA*

        This is what I was planning to suggest! My local Buy Nothing group has lots of great stuff in it, including clothes! You can also put an ask out there for exactly what you need, requested sizes, etc. I see people do that all the time :) Best of luck!

    22. Ktelzbeth*

      Congratulations on the weight loss! If you’re in the area of the world I think I remember you being (sorry if I’m wrong) and can afford second hand, look up Turn Style Consignment. I’ve done well there for work slacks for female presenting.

    23. Persimmons*

      Several of the consignment stores near me will be MUCH more generous with the amounts they offer for clothes you bring in when you take store credit instead of cash. I’d try taking a bag in (everything nicely washed/ironed/hung or folded) and make it plain that you’re looking to shop instead of wanting to leave with a fistful of cash.

      Also, Freecycle.

    24. Anna*

      Maybe look into local non-profits/churches in the area! Sometimes they offer help to people in need of clothes!

    25. Traveling Teacher*

      There are tons of excellent tutorials on YouTube for easy DIY alterations. One that I used several years ago for a ton of thrifted shirts for a sibling starting a first job was the “pinch and pin” for shirts from the ThreadBanger channel. Very simple to do, and it works especially well if the shoulders fit but part or all of the rest of the shirt is too loose. I’m pretty sure that they had at least one or two videos on altering jeans/trousers, too, but YMMV, of course.

      Also, there are some very innovative videos on YouTube about making skirts from a single, long piece of fabric using no-sew techniques or even just creative tying and belts! I even watched one about transforming an old curtain into this sort of skirt, if you feel like getting your Sound of Music vibe on, :)

  12. Crystal Smith*

    Warning – talking about the death of pets. This is something I’ve seen discussed here before, but I’m bringing it up again because it’s surfaced in my life! My beloved cat has been ill for a long time, and we have a vet appointment next week that I just have a strong feeling is going to end in her being put to sleep. I’m someone who can pretty easily ignore personal stuff at work, but my coworkers and boss are all very sweet and have always asked about how vet appointments go and if things are okay – and I just know if anyone mentions it to me I *will* cry. (And I hate crying at work!) I once had a friend who posted on Facebook after her kitty passed, basically breaking the news and saying, nicely, “please don’t ask me about this in person or I’ll cry on you,” which I thought was effective without being off-putting. Would it be weird to send something like that in my (small) team’s slack? Does anyone have any better ideas? I basically want to head off mentioning it in person without coming across like a robot.

    1. Red Reader*

      Is there one person you could mention it to privately and ask them to spread the word?

      1. Former Retail Manager*

        I was going to say the same thing. Maybe tell your boss privately when your pet passes and ask them to spread the word and specifically instruct people not to bring it up.

    2. Lemon Sherbet*

      I had a similar situation with two different pets over two years. I asked my team to not talk about it because I would cry. It’s been one and two years respectively now since those pets departed and I am now able to talk about them.

      I’m sorry about your cat.

    3. Murphy*

      I think it’s fine to share it within your team like that.

      And I’m sorry your cat’s not doing well. I have an older dog, so I know the feeling :(

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I wouldn’t find it weird to put that on Slack, especially if your team knows about your cat’s struggles. I would just say something like, “Please send Kitty and me some good vibes for our appointment next week. I’m not up to talking about it in person, but you’ve all been great through this and I really appreciate all of your kind words.”

      Best of luck to you and your bud.

    5. enginerd*

      I don’t think it would be weird to share the news with your team that way. That’s a rough situation, I’m sorry. Losing pets is so hard. I hope you guys had many good years together. <3

    7. AnotherAlison*

      Sorry about your cat.

      I think this is a good idea. My husband put my 15 year old dog down while I was traveling for two weeks, and didn’t tell me because he wanted to wait until I was home. Well, it came up in conversation on Thursday night, and I was going home & to the office for a meeting on Friday. Wouldn’t you know that one of the first things to come up in the meeting was Steve asking Dave about his dog? It was hard to talk about pets for a few weeks. (‘Course my mom still can’t talk about here little dog two years after the dog passed.)

    8. rageismycaffeine*

      I wish I’d thought to do that when we had to unexpectedly put one of our cats to sleep last month. My boss had told people when I missed a meeting that I was at the vet but when I texted my boss the news and that I wasn’t going to come in that day, he didn’t spread the word. So I came in the next day and had someone ask me how the cat was, and I was so surprised by the question that I just bluntly said “She’s dead.” Yeah, that was brutal.

      Let them know one way or another – I think a mention on Slack is a good idea, and I also like Red Reader’s suggestion to see if someone can spread the word for you.

    9. frystavirki*

      First of all, I’m so sorry about your cat. Please tell her she is a very good cat from me and give her her preferred form of affection. I think that it’d be fine to post a heads up, either in the team slack or by texting it to a specific coworker you trust to get the word out that you want to focus on work at work currently so you don’t fall apart. I wish I was in a situation to have done this when my dog passed away in 2014, but I was at school and not a job, so there wasn’t really anyone to notify. I just had people asking why I was upset all day. It’s totally valid to not want to get caught up in grief at work. I know this isn’t easy for anyone, but I hope it goes as easily as it can. <3 If you'd like to share pictures in the off-topic thread (or here? I don't know open threadiquette) I would love to see them.

    10. Claire*

      I’m so sorry. I just went through this in January. If you can, I’d recommend taking a day or two off afterwards. I did this when I had to have my own beloved cat put to sleep and it helped. I was still hurting but I wasn’t as raw when I went back to work and was able to accept a couple of condolences without bursting into tears.

    11. Quinoa*

      So sorry to hear about your cat. I just lost my 20 year-old Old Lady Cat a couple of weeks ago. It’s heartbreaking. Know that you have given her a wonderful life and cared for her to the best of your ability. And yes, having one co-worker who can tell everyone else will make things MUCH easier for you.

  13. Bones*

    I have an interview with a really great company today– really respects and values the workers, and makes improving the worker experience a cornerstone of the business. Please keep your fingers crossed for me!

  14. Virginian*

    I’ll be working for my former employer again which is quite exciting. I wonder if the AAM readership who have boomeranged back have any words of advice? Anything I should be aware of?

    Thanks!

    1. Andy*

      I boomeranged back and forth to my old firm in Fla and one thing that helped was making sure I connected with people who had been hired since I left, that way it didn’t seem like my return signaled an automatic clique-shift. I also tried very very hard and with a LOT of success to see my former-and new again coworkers in their best lights and give them the benefit of the doubt I would have given brand-new co-workers. This let them rely on their own rosy recollections of me as well and things went VERY smoothly.
      Also don’t say ‘but this is the way it was done’ too many times unless someone is looking for the administrative history of a process to delve into. Good luck!

    2. Becky*

      At my job we’ve had a few boomerangs, (there are three in my department right now) mostly they’ve been welcomed back quite happily though there has been some benign teasing.

    3. NicoleK*

      Some things may have change since you were gone. And people may assume that you know about said changes.

    4. FaintlyMacabre*

      I’ve gone back to a former workplace twice, and the experiences were quite different. First one, I wasn’t gone too long and the person hired to replace me was terrible. Everyone was really glad to have me back and I slipped back in seamlessly. Second time, I had been gone for years and was stepping into a newly created role. It was sometimes hard, because people assumed I knew about things that had changed while I was gone. Also, everyone wanted to know where I had been and what I’d done which was personally difficult as it involved a toxic ex. And then others didn’t ask, just assumed I’d had a baby… anyhoo, it may be easy or not, but in both cases it was fine in the long run. First months may be rocky, but that’s the danger in any job, I suppose!

  15. Fishsticks*

    I’m looking for advice about getting into event planning. I’ve been interested in it for a while, but haven’t had much luck finding part time jobs, partly since I don’t have that much experience with event planning. (I currently work full-time and am not in a position to look for a new job right now). I’d like to find a part-time job to expand my experience and see if it’s a field I’d enjoy. Any one have any field specific advice? Thanks!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Instead of finding a part time job, could you volunteer with a non-profit in an event planning capacity?

      1. Fishsticks*

        I’ve looked into that and I haven’t found too many options. To be fair, I could be looking in the wrong areas as I’m not the best at finding volunteer opportunities. But I’ll definitely try and look more.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          You could also ask around among your friends/family and see if they know anyone who is holding an event that they could use some assistance with. I’d try to go out at least one degree from your direct circle because that wouldn’t be as useful in terms of potential work experience. Like, if someone said to me, “hey I have this friend who wants to get into event planning. would you be interested in a free wedding planner to help you?” I would probably jump on that (well, I’d at least have a conversation and make sure you liked spreadsheets as much as I do first to make sure we’d work well together).

        2. Joshua*

          Check your local newspapers “on the town” or “society/culture” section – they usually have a rundown of charity events. Also, mid-size to larger cities often have an annual or seasonal charity event calendar publication usually called a “datebook” or “event guide.” Different communities have different publishers – I’d try and find some of these resources and start to keep a pulse on what annual events happen around your city and who the key players are. Try to attend a few as well.

          Once you identify a non-profit with some interesting events and a mission you connect with, you know where to start! Many non-profits will often have entry-level volunteer opportunities (i.e. a guild or an associate board) and you could meet with a development staff person to discuss ways you can become involved. You may not be able to jump into their larger, signature event (those are often organized by board members or highly engaged individuals) – but, you can start building a relationship. Helping to plan a few smaller events gives you something to speak to in an interview.

          I work in development and the first few years of my career was in planning fundraising events for an arts organization in Chicago. There are some definite skills that are necessary – project management, organization, financial management, etc. Volunteering can help you put skills to the test in a real-world environment which you can point to when speaking with a potential employer. However, a big part of process is having an understanding of your community’s event/philanthropic landscape. Even if someone is lacking in experience, if they have drive and are familiar with the city and major events that is a big starting point. The key is to start attending events, get a feel for the venues in your city, understand key suppliers/caterers, etc – build some relationships in the space!

        3. Fishsticks*

          I live in a massive city so I can definitely start looking. It’s almost overwhelming how many non-profits there are. Unfortunately, I don’t know too many people so I can’t use them as guinea pigs XD

          My boss has a few board member positions on charities so I may see if I can reach out to my contacts there and ask them. Thank you for the ideas!

    2. Sunflower*

      I see a lot of volunteer jobs for event planning actually posted on Indeed. Do you know what kind of events you’d like to do? Work at a non-profit, cateirng/sales/hotel, corporate?

    3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I agree with the advice to look into volunteering rather than part-time work. There are a lot of volunteer groups/orgs/board that put on a lot of events, but don’t have a specific “event planning” role. I’d suggest looking at local event calendars for groups that seem to hold a lot of events, then look into those groups specifically. It couldn’t hurt to reach out and introduce yourself, even if they don’t have a posted volunteer event planning position. Also, a lot of times event planning can get rolled into development/fundraising/outreach, so those are good areas to look into as well. Finally, this is the kind of thing informational interviews are made for! When you are researching and reaching out to those orgs you can also be on the lookout for a professional event planner who might be able to answer your questions about the field and give you pointers on how to get started. Good luck!

    4. AnonToodles*

      Check out local colleges and universities. Some have departments especially for event planning (Office of Major Events is one common name; Event Planning is another), the music, theater, and dance departments, departments within the Student Union/Activities Building, or even in some institutes that do executive training or community outreach.

      Also look at hotels and conference centers, but be aware of “event planning” jobs that are really marketing jobs, especially if they don’t pay you until the event has run and they know how much money it brought in. My friend took one of these jobs and quit once she realized she had to work the events her predecessor brought in but wouldn’t get paid for her events for probably another year. it was a long time ago so I don’t remember the details, but it wasn’t financially sustainable for her and her family to not see any real income for a year.

    5. Anonymous404*

      Another suggestion is to look into volunteering with MPI (Meeting Professionals International or another similar association). Since this is such a niche field, it really can be more about who you know and going to MPI events plus volunteering there can help you build those relationships. Also, you can look to volunteer with your local politicians to help them plan their fundraising events (that’s how I got started in the event planning field). Let me know if you need any other tips, I am also starting out but have been a professional event coordinator for about a year now.

      1. Fishsticks*

        I’d love to hear more about the politician side. I’m working at getting involved with campaigns but I’m generally only free weekends and not the biggest fan of knocking on doors lol

        1. Anonymous404*

          Well for me it started with a fundraising firm as an unpaid intern. It was a lot of calls, but I was able to move up and help plan and run events. So look into fundraising firms in your area (sometimes called political consulting firms) and also PACs. I was also able to build a lot of experience with VIPs and was able to build connections and that’s where I learned event planning was for me, and that fundraising definitely was not.

    6. Windward*

      Check hsmai’s website. They used to host free annual conventions on event mgmt stuff, & they have info on aspects of event mgmt. They seem to be more focused on hotels nowadays, but a lot of the info will translate.

      And I recommend finding a local organization doing work or events you’d like to support. Approach them about helping, & see how that goes. You can do more with that org or try your hand with another to check out different types of events. Eg picnics, races, formats/balls, meeting focused or fundraising or…

      Mpi is another resources, which offers certifications, which has already been mentioned.

  16. AnitaJ*

    Job searching during IVF – am I a jerk?

    I’m going through IVF, and if all goes well (of course who knows), I’d be pregnant at the end of August. I have a promising lead on a good job that would start early September. Is it a jerk move to start a job just as you get pregnant? I dread the thought of walking in to my boss after 3 months and saying ‘hey guess what, I’m taking maternity leave in 6 months!’. On the other hand, the office seems cool, and my friend has worked there before, so she can vouch for me in terms of reliability and work ethic.

    Plus, if this round doesn’t take, we’d go directly into another one, which would require some doctor’s appointments during work hours, and taking time off right after starting a job is not…great. Advice welcome!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t think this is a jerk move at all. So many pregnancies are unplanned that this kind of thing just happens.

      Good luck!

    2. NLMC*

      I don’t think it’s a jerk move but you won’t be eligible for FMLA so hopefully they have a good maternity leave policy.

    3. Bekx*

      It depends on the culture, I’d say. I worked for an extremely male dominated field (construction) and my former coworker was a few months pregnant when hired (I think 2 or 3). When her boss found out she was pregnant, she definitely made snide comments about it. People even treated my coworker like she was getting a “free vacation” (!!!). She was only eligible for STD and not FMLA, too.

      That being said, my current company (a bank) with generous vacation, family leave, caregiver leave and bonding time off would probably not care one bit.

      See if you can ask your friend what the culture is like and give as much detail as you feel comfortable giving. Good luck!!

      1. Anona*

        Snide comments are the worst. But pregnancy discrimination is illegal in the US, so even if they make these, there’s not much they can do.

        1. Natalie*

          I mean, they can still discriminate even though its illegal. People break laws all the time. And in the case of civil rights laws there’s no cops that will come and deal with it, the employee has to pursue the case themselves.

          1. Bekx*

            Yes, exactly. And it was still hard for my friend/coworker to hear the mean comments. Especially when you’re young and you don’t have experience, you don’t know what to do or who to tell or even that it’s unacceptable!

      2. Asleep or maybe dead*

        AnitaJ, even if this scenario does happen to you, which I wish it doesn’t, please don’t think you’re being a jerk. They are.
        You shouldn’t feel guilty (and shouldn’t be shamed) to actually benefit from your benefits. That’s bananas. Even more bananas if you’re entitled to it by law (not sure how us goes about this).
        As long as you’re diligent around the handover of your job, etc, it’s really unreasonable to expect you not to take maternity leave.

      3. Observer*

        Well, the manager and others WERE being jerks, that’s true. But your COWORKER was absolutely NOT a jerk. (At least not on this account.)

        Of course, it is relevant for AnitaJ as a *practical* matter. Is there likely be stupid fall out, and do you want to deal with it.

        1. Bekx*

          Sorry, I didn’t mean to insinuate my coworker/friend was being a jerk, she certainly wasn’t! I was just pointing out that some places suck and would absolutely be crappy about it. So just check about culture if you’re worried about it.

    5. Anona*

      No, take the job. Fertility stuff is so unpredictable. I didn’t do IVF, but we did have fertility struggles. I decided to lean in/keep going with professional opportunities, and not take into account possible pregnancy. It took much longer that we hoped for me to get pregnant. I did eventually get pregnant, and ended up doing a 2 week international work trip that I’d applied for before pregnancy. If I had kept delaying professional stuff in the hopes of pregnancy, I’d have missed out on a lot. This area of life is so beyond control, and I found it helpful to try to minimize its impact on the other areas of my life, like work. No regrets!

    6. EA in CA*

      I would proceed with the job prospect. You are talking about a best case scenario when it comes to your IVF treatments and getting pregnant. Sometimes it happens on the first round, sometimes it takes a few. It can be very likely that you do not become pregnant as planned in August and it could take longer. So keeping that in mind, if this opportunity comes available, take it and just figure it out as you go along.

      All the best in your journey.

    7. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Remember the individual success rate for IVF is only like 30% per cycle. So you may get lucky or you may not. I started at age 34 with “only” male factor infertility. 6 rounds later we are doing donor egg internally…

    8. anycat*

      so this was me last year. i left a very, very toxic job in march and started with my current company. we were all set to ramp up our first round of ivf when another health issue came up so we had to wait until january. our first transfer did not work, but our second was a success and i’m not just about 17 weeks along.

      i attribute some of our success to the fact that my job was so supportive and fantastic about it. i was very open and honest with my boss and a few others, and was basically told to take care of myself and do what’s best for me. i’m so deeply appreciative of this, and one of the reasons why i do want to come back to work after maternity leave.

      let me know if you have any questions – wishing you the best; i’ve been there.

    9. Nita*

      Well, you don’t know how the IVF or the job search will go, so it doesn’t make sense to put one of them on hold since they’re both a little unpredictable. If you do land the job, it might make sense to wait at least 3 months with the next round of IVF – first, because of the daytime appointments and second, if you need to be eligible for FMLA.

    10. Observer*

      Firstly, you have no idea how long the job search will take, so it’s kind of hard to plan around that anyway. And, best case, assuming this round of ivf works, you’re looking at waiting a year to start job searching. That’s a long time!

      Life doesn’t work that way. People move jobs all the time, and they don’t plan around this stuff. To you it probably feels like you can and should because you know exactly what month you are going to make the effort, but the reality is that 1. you don’t really know for sure whether it will work and 2. going through IVF doesn’t mean that you have a greater obligation to plan the rest of your life around the possibility, just as no one else does.

    11. Thlayli*

      No it is absolutely not a jerk move. For a start there is a pretty significant chance that you will not be lucky enough to get pregnant and carry to term on the first try. You can’t live your life on the basis of what could or could not happen. Pregnancy in general and IVF in particular are so uncertain. Plan for the worst (try to get the job) and hope for the best (maternity leave).

    13. blackcat*

      The only thing to be aware of is FMLA eligibility and that some companies put a “you must be here for a year” rule on things like maternity leave.

      It is not a jerk move at all. Live your life. People get pregnant (through all sorts of means) all the time. They’ll cope.

    14. K*

      I work in a school, so it’s a female dominated workplace. I am not a teacher, and there are very few of us in my job title, so there are no substitutes- when one of us is absent, the others all have to use lunch periods and stuff to cover that worker’s schedule. We had a new employee start with us in September a couple of years ago, and she told us two weeks after she started she was almost five months pregnant. She also admitted she went for this job because of the health insurance for the pregnancy. It did not make the rest of us feel very warm and fuzzy towards her, especially when she spent the rest of the pregnancy complaining that FMLA didn’t apply to her and how unfair that was.

      She’s still working with us, but she takes a LOT of time off for her three kids. (The pregnancy in question was her third.)

    15. Specialk9*

      My coworker was 7 months pregnant when she did an internal transfer. Her boss, coworkers, and grandboss (all older guys) only express enthusiasm about having her on the team. None of those ‘jokes’ that aren’t jokes. But also, realistically, American maternity leave is so crap, she’ll be back in a few months. Nothing is that urgent that you can’t wait 3 months.

  17. NOresident*

    Any ideas on jobs for people who like to assemble things? I don’t mean like, literally doing assembly line work, but things like putting various pieces together to make a finished product? I don’t want to be the person who comes up with the overarching idea and I don’t want to be the person who makes the individual parts, but I love being the person who puts those individual parts together to create a final product. The work I do now involves installing elements on websites, inserting new copy and images into emails, etc. So I’m not coming up with what the email should be, nor am I creating the code or the copy/design, but I’m combining all the elements together. This feels like a fairly niche role because when I look at job listings, they want someone who can do ALL of those things and I don’t want to do all those things, nor do I think I could do all those things.

    1. MuseumChick*

      Museum Fabricator. The jobs are few and far between but it pretty ideal for what your describe.

      1. Admin of Sys*

        Seconding project management. It’s not always that sort of coordination of separate pieces into a working whole, and there’s often a lot of people -wrangling involved, but quite a lot of project management can be ‘boss said they wanted and I need to figure out how to get and to work to accomplish it.’

      2. Courageous cat*

        Project management seems to be freakishly hard to get into, though. I must have applied to a million junior PM jobs (as a mid-level manager who has certainly “managed projects”) and I have never, ever heard anything back. I’m not sure what it is. Or maybe it’s me!

    3. HMM*

      I do think there’s an element of being realistic here – you just might be limited in the amount of jobs that allow you to do solely one part of things. It may be that doing that one part isn’t enough to make a whole, full-time job. Or possibly that it’s really hard to do that one part well without also having some experience with other pieces of the work. In addition, those kinds of jobs may be limited in pay or career progression in that area of work would be slow/minimal. You may get raises for tenure or merit, but you likely wouldn’t get any significant promotions or bumps in pay without taking on more senior work (i.e. managing a team that does X instead of doing X yourself) or a broader scope of work.

      At the end of the day what will give you the most flexibility and potential is to have skills/experience in All the Things, even if you don’t like portions of it. Then when you have built up a track record of success, you’re more able to say, “I actually want to do more of X work, not Y – how can I develop my career to move in that direction?” I think very rarely do people find jobs where they actually like doing all of it.

      But I do echo the recommendation for project management or consulting work – without knowing more of the things you like/don’t like doing, it’s hard to say for sure, though.

      1. HMM*

        There’s also being a surgeon! :) But even then, it’s likely there’s a LOT of stuff you’d have to do that you didn’t like before getting to the point that you’re doing only surgeries.

    5. Opting for the Sidelines*

      Are you interested in hands-on physical work? I suggest: Finish cabinetry (like hi-end custom kitchens, built-in bookshelves, custom office cabinets). The architects design in, the cabinetry shop fabricates it, you install in and make sure it looks great.

    6. Courageous cat*

      Ooh, dental lab tech! I have always wanted to do this but I don’t know if I’d be good at it. It’s apparently both scientific *and* creative because there’s obviously a lot of detail that goes into making prosthetic teeth.

    7. MissDisplaced*

      Sounds like classic graphic designer. But for something more current, I’d look into 3D printing and additive manufacturing. The prototypes take a lot of hand finishing. Also, a video editor pulls together many elements into the final program.

  18. Frazzled Fran*

    Howdy! This spring I decided to go back to school to get my MBA so I work full-time and go to school full-time, which I know tons of people do. My husband has been great taking over a lot of our cooking/pet responsibilities and things like Wag, Blue Apron and Handy have been great. However, I’ve gained weight (15 lbs!) and just feel guilty when I’m not working on homework. Any life hacks from people who’ve mastered time management? I’m a person who thrives on a busy schedule but I’m feeling frazzled.

    1. Red Reader*

      Figure out if there’s anything you can take off y’all’s plate with money. Paying someone to come clean my kitchen and bathrooms twice a month saved my sanity during grad school.

      Set yourself a schedule as best you can – this semester, Tuesdays are always for homework, Thursdays are class night, Saturday morning is always for brunch with the spouse, and Sunday afternoon is always for going to the gym, or whatever. And make sure you do put in at least a couple hours for yourself NOT to do classwork. :)

      I also gave up a couple hours of sleep for those four years, went with 6 hours a night instead of 8. I don’t know that I’d advise that for most people, but it worked for me. (It did help that my last hour awake most nights was laying in bed reading for pleasure, nothing super strenuous. And if I fell asleep and dropped my kindle on my head … well, it’s pretty light.)

      1. Frazzled Fran*

        I like the routine thing you suggested for each day. I do have someone clean my house every six weeks and a dog walker – saviors!

        1. FaintlyMacabre*

          I get that the dog walker is helpful in freeing up your time, but could that be a way you get some exercise/ quiet time?

      2. Winnie*

        This is what I do as well (working full time and studying part time). During the week I work, 1 day of the week I go to classes, Tuesday and Thursday night are for softball practice. Saturday and Sunday morning are homework, Sunday afternoon I watch my club play baseball as a treat :-)
        I’ve found that clearly separating work and school helps me. I don’t have the mental energy to study after working all day, so I’ve decided studying is for weekends. That means I don’t feel guilty when I do nothing on a week night.

    2. Fishsticks*

      Could you devote time to the gym where you either review lecture slides or do some of your less intensive reading while on a machine? I know people who would review lecture slides while at the gym to keep studying and be able to workout. Also, your school probably has a gym near campus, would it make sense for you to go after class for a shorter time (like a quick 30 minute workout) after every class? Or if you don’t want to do the gym, could you get up 15-20 minutes earlier and do a short exercise plan right after you wake up?

      1. Frazzled Fran*

        I’m pretty lucky – school is four blocks from work and work is two blocks from my gym. I have no excuses! I should try the a.m. thing…

        1. Rey*

          Also, think about how your food habits have changed. For example, does your husband tend to cook larger portions than you would cook in the past? Are you using junk food to stay awake during late night study hours? Are you using food as a reward when you finish a project or hear about a good grade?

    3. Lumen*

      Schedule white space.

      On your calendar or planner or whatnot, block out time (30 min at least once a week is good; a solid block of a few hours is better but that may not be possible right now and even when it is possible you may need to work your way up to it). This is not ‘flex’ time. This is not time that can be scheduled over. This is as serious a commitment as going to class or showing up to work on time. You have to protect it, because most people won’t take it seriously, and you need to be the one who does.

      This is not homework time. This is not for chores or chooking. This is not for taking care of other people. This isn’t really for Netflix or tv unless that is literally the only thing your brain can handle for the moment. This is time to stare out a window. Make a cup of tea or whatever you like and do absolutely nothing but focus on the team. This is time to free-write if that’s your jam. This is time to meditate, if you’d like, and I highly recommend that. Go for a walk – not with the mentality of Get That Exercise, but just to take a stroll and look around.

      I know this sounds potentially crazy, but I don’t think the problem is your schedule or your division of labor or what you’re eating or that you’re not managing your time well enough. The key phrase I noticed in your post was that you feel guilty. It doesn’t sound like you have anything to feel guilty about. You’re busting your ass, then turning around and busting your ass more for not busting your ass better, or something.

      I’m extremely good at time management even when I’m busy. But there are a thousand tips out there on how to not forget things, how to stay productive, etc. It just sounds like what you really need is half an hour here and there to just sit with Fran and daydream. It’s a very effective de-frazzling tool.

      Again: I highly recommend short meditations during your ‘white space’ time, or journaling. But those are just the things that help me; what defrazzles you may be something else. But you need to schedule it, and defend that time, and commit to it.

      1. Business Manager*

        Seconding this recommendation. I just graduated from grad school (MPA) while simultaneously working f/t. Self-care time was key. Try not to feel guilty about weight gain. Do you think it’s a sign of turning to food as a balm to your stress?

        Also, seconding the scheduling. I had classes monday/wednesday and I would do ~an hour of homework on Tuesdays/Thursdays, no school work on Friday and I would focus on the more brain-heavy stuff on Saturday/Sunday mornings (I am a morning person. Do you know if you’re a morning/afternoon/evening/night person? Make sure to block off time where you’re most effective to do schoolwork).

        1. Lumen*

          +1, especially to not feeling guilty about weight gain! I won’t write a dissertation here, but there is tons of information out there about how stress affects the brain’s energy regulation system, and intensifying exercise or restricting food intake during times of stress typically just exacerbates that reaction.

          So to second Business Manager and a few others: do not focus on the weight gain. It’s morally neutral and isn’t the root cause of any of the things that are bothering you right now.

    4. HMM*

      Keep in mind that giving yourself breaks/time for the gym/cuddles with the dog can recharge you and allow you to do your homework better or more efficiently. There’s no point in grinding on the books if you can’t think clearly or won’t remember the material. I think Red Reader is spot on – schedule and bulk process tasks to maximize time.

    5. DaniCalifornia*

      If you have lectures to listen to, is it possible to listen to these while walking for 30 minutes. Or read on the treadmill at the gym/home. You could join a dance class or cardio fit or some activity that is regular that you like doing so it doesn’t feel like exercise. I would much rather play soccer than be on a treadmill.

      My husband and I work FT and are in school for Masters so I feel you. I just have to do it, even if I’m tired or have to get up earlier. I also got an AppleWatch and was surprised at how interactive it is for the health part. It reminds me to get up and walk around every hour. I added friends who exercise and you can get notifications. My 2 coworkers and I are competitive and on long streaks and it’s encouraging to see they completed their rings even if it is 10pm and I am just starting exercising. FitBit also helps too!

    6. Lindsay Gee*

      I had the same problem after my first semester of grad school. One recommendation would be meal prepping, which is really handy for making sure you have healthy meals for the whole day so you don’t eat out/snack. Another thing was making working out my ‘break’ instead of tv or going to the pub with the rest of my cohort. And if you can’t afford the gym there are lots of home workout programs that take 30 minutes total that are mostly body weight exercises. So a 30-minute break in between homework seems daunting, but i swear it actually improves your productivity!

    7. epi*

      Get as much separation as you can from work and school during your down time. I tend to think of both work and school as one big job and I am just working on two projects that aren’t that closely related.

      Physically separate that stuff from your home life if you can. If it works for you, do the school work at your office at the end of your work day and leave it there when you go home. If you have to take the completed work away with you, leave it in your car or a separate weekday bag. Or leave the work in a home office or spare room, rather than working at the kitchen table or doing class reading on the couch.

      For me it depends what is going on that semester, but it can be really helpful to schedule your schoolwork times in your calendar. Rather than just putting in due dates, pull up your calendar and pick the specific 1-hour block of time when you will do this specific assignment. It didn’t take me that long to get really good at estimating how long an assignment would take, and it kept me on task because if I went over, I knew I was wasting my own free time.

      Schedule some times that you will exercise or sit down with a fun book or cook a new recipe or whatever feels good to you, too. This stuff isn’t (just) a treat, it is a necessary part of being human. You will be better at your jobs if you take the time. That’s especially true for things like exercise, cooking, or getting a good night’s sleep, since you are kind of multitasking by both taking a break and meeting a physical need.

    8. LaurenB*

      Staying healthy is important but I would also give yourself permission to let go of the stress over those 15 lbs. Buy a pair of pants that fit you well at your current weight and focus gym time on decompressing/stress relief rather than weight loss. Try to include vegetables in your diet because you won’t feel good subsisting on simple carbs eaten with one hand at the computer, but if a piece of cake is what gets you through it all, I don’t think that’s the worst thing. I gained 25 lbs almost in my first semester of a degree that I found challenging, and a few years later the weight has disappeared but I still have the degree.

    10. nonymous*

      It’s likely that the blue apron meals as packaged are too much calories for you. I found their meals on the large side for my sedentary life and frequently the ingredients included were more than stated on the recipe cards. If you really like the packaging, consider the costco meal kits (also by blue apron) which are family style recipes and easier to separate into additional portions. (usually my half of the kit will be lunch and dinner for me and we buy other stuff for hubby’s lunch). skinnytaste is also a good source for lighter recipes which are quick to prepare.

      Definitely ++ to mapping out the semester overall. It’s a good way to identify if there are categories of stuff that you are missing, need to outsource. Having a big schedule also let’s me say “good enough” when that paper is screaming for it’s nth revision.

    11. Specialk9*

      I had to back way down on social activities when I was balancing school and work. A lot of life was put on pause for 2 years.

    12. Chaordic One*

      If it is possible (and it might not be) could you walk the dog, or do some other kind of exercise with either your husband or a friend?

      It’s one of the few ways I’ve ever been able to multi-task, just to have someone to visit with while biking or walking or working out.

  19. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    Who is typically the manager of an executive assistant? The person the EA supports, or a separate person?

    By “manager,” I mean the person who would handle performance problems, do the annual review, etc. Of course the person the EA supports will direct most of the EA’s work… but is that person also usually the direct manager of the assistant?

    1. Sunflower*

      A separate person unless the company is teeny tiny. The thought is if the person is important/busy enough to have an assistant, they are also too important to deal with managing them(it’s literally just not worth their time). The folks they support do typically have tons of input on their reviews however.

      1. Asleep or maybe dead*

        That’s the case at my rather big company.
        I must say it is not doing any good for our EA though. Their boss is generally clueless about what the EA’s work entails, expect them to take on admin work that is not their function and has generally zero input from the executive EA’s actually supporting.

      2. Morning Glory*

        I think it varies. I work at a medium-size org (600ish people) and EAs report directly to the VIP they support. Here, other admins often report to the EA, and there is only one EA per department.

    2. Anele*

      I’m an EA, and the President is my manager. Maybe this can change from organization to organization, but I have a hard time imagining who would be the direct manager of the EA if not the person the EA is supporting.

    3. The Cleaner*

      I think this is one of those things that is a huge range, but I am the manager of my executive boss’s EA so that is definitely one model. My executive boss gives the EA some work directly, I give the EA direction on many routine office tasks, and there is also project-based work that my executive boss gives to me and then I break it down into tasks and assign some of it the EA and some to other direct reports. I manage the EA’s performance, annual reviews, payroll issues, etc. (My title is Director of Administration if that helps.)

    5. Director of Operations*

      In my experience (in academia), yes, it is the person who the EA supports who is their direct manager.
      In my department, I act as the EA to the Dean and she is my direct supervisor, our administrative assistants support the all of the department faculty and I am their direct manager.

    6. EA in CA*

      In my experience it has always been the person that I directly support. Or in once case where I supported the CEO and 2 other executives, it was the executive who managed the administrative and operational side of the business. At my current company, the VP is support is also my manager and would give me feedback, do my reviews etc. They all do that here because they best know the work of their respective EAs. For my reviews, they will also talk to the directors for feedback on performance since I work closely with those parties as well.

    7. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Thank you, all!

      I asked because I’m having some challenges with an EA that I work with. Because the VP she supports is the executive sponsor of the program that I manage, she is also tasked with providing administrative support to my program.

      The EA is having significant performance problems in her work on my program (which I’ve written about here before; it’s to the extent that I’m considering going without any administrative support rather than continue to work with her) and I need to talk with her boss about it.

      She reports directly to the VP she supports, and it feels strange — like, it can’t be the best use of his time to be in the weeds on performance management for an admin. But I’m meeting with him next week and we’ll figure it out.

      1. EA in CA*

        As the VP’s EA, she is suppose to be more than just an admin. As an EA myself, I would be considered more of an extension of my VP. When my VP is out of the office, the other staff would come to me for guidance and direction on projects and priorities. I’m at the point now where I even attend some meetings on her behalf. I help manage her work load by managing her calendar, action items in her inbox, or start on projects and reports so that she just needs to finalize and tweak the content. I do all the administrative leg work required of her so that she can focus on building the division and working on the strategic side of the business. That is what a good EA should be doing. Because of the VP/EA relationship, the VP should manage the EA. It’s not very effective to have someone else give feedback or do performance reviews, the conversation should be direct from the person you support.
        Not sure what support she gives to your VP, but is sounds like she was assigned to a project she has no interest in and therefore her lack of interest is translating to performance problems. Definitely speak to your VP about it because it is a task she has been assigned and should be doing just as well as all her other work.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I think that is exactly the situation — she’s not interested in the program.

          But! It’s essentially the same type of work she does in supporting the VP more generally. She schedules meetings, communicates with the EAs of other participants, prepares the agendas and other materials, arranges for meals — just as she does for the VP in his other work.

      2. Jillociraptor*

        Sounds frustrating! I’ve seen both situations happen: where the executive directly manages the EA, and where another person like a Chief of Staff manages the EA. (In fact, I’ve been the COS in that situation.) Are you considering recommending a management switch, or more looking for advice for how to approach bringing the issue to the VP? It seems like either way, the issue you are having is an immediate one, and one that the VP has a vested interest in solving as the sponsor of your program, so hopefully they will be able to be a partner in resolving the issue. Reading between the lines (forgive me if I’m making a jump), even if the VP is very busy, as a manager this is their job, so you shouldn’t feel bad or guilty about taking their time on this issue. Admin support is vital to the success of your project, and effective performance management isn’t a nice-to-have. A possible outcome is that the VP says, “Yeah, EA doesn’t like this and I’m not going to make her do a good job,” but it sounds like you’ve already gotten comfortable with the possibility that you just won’t have admin support at all. Hope you’re able to get to a more effective solution!

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Thank you for your response!

          I’m not planning to recommend a management switch — I was just curious about whether this is a normal situation.

          As for feeling bad or guilty… I don’t, really. I guess I just don’t think that much is going to happen to improve the situation, because it’s not worth his time to invest a lot of effort in improving her performance on my program.

    9. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      At my employer there might be an Operations Manager or Director of Operations that oversees general admin staff and receptionists, but for an EA, they tend to report directly to the person they support.

    10. LilySparrow*

      In my experience, the EA’s reported to the executive for matters involving their day-to-day work, but were managed by either the office manager or a designated HR person for personnel issues like performance reviews, coordinating sick-day coverage, performance issues, etc.

      As an example, if you wanted to ask for a raise or plan vacation time, you’d ask your executive first but get the final decision from the office manager or admin supervisor. If your executive had issues with your work, they’d give you direction in the moment as to what they wanted changed. But if a sit-down, big-picture conversation was needed, that would come from the admin supervisor.

    11. Kat in VA*

      IME it’s always been the main executive I support, but not necessarily the highest-ranked one, if that makes sense.

      So I might support the CTO, two Senior VPs, and the VP of Sales – the last one took the most of my time, was the one involved in interviewing/hiring me, and was definitely “my boss”.

      It doesn’t always work this way but this is generally the norm for executive assistants. More general administrative assistants might have a different manager, though, especially if they support a team of, say, directors or VPs.

  20. AdAgencyChick*

    How would you handle it if an employee is rude to a service person while at work?

    I know a lot of us would torpedo a job applicant who treats the receptionist like crap or is rude to the wait staff at an interview that takes place over lunch. But would you take action against an employee who’s already hired and behaves badly, if you are senior to them?

    I’m told a junior member of my extended team (ie, people I work with, but not my department) was incredibly rude to a restaurant worker on the phone, as in screaming at them.

    If this person reported to me I’d be having a talk with her about how it ruins our day at the ad agency when our clients are even half as rude to us as she was to the restaurant worker, who probably wasn’t even the person responsible for the (super minor) issue she was having.

    I don’t feel like there’s much I can do about it (other than change my view of her as a coworker) since she doesn’t report to me and I didn’t observe the action in person. But I’m curious as to how others would handle this (both with a coworker and with a direct report).

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t think it would be amiss to mention it to this person’s direct supervisor as a “keep an eye out for this type of behavior” thing.

    2. MuseumChick*

      Being rude to restaurant staff is a big red button for me. To the point where I would consider talking to her manager about it. That depends, of course, on your relationship with that manager.

    3. Snark*

      Sit-down private meeting. “This is not directly related to your work performance, but I wanted to discuss something concerning. A few days ago, I learned that you had been incredibly rude, to the point of screaming, to a restaurant worker on the phone. It’s incredibly important to me and everyone here that our interactions with clients, vendors, and even restaurants delivering lunch are professional, kind, and represent the agency well, even when conflict presents itself. The tone you took was unacceptable regardless of who you were talking to, and I expect that a similar incident will never happen again.”

      And, if this person is part of your extended team, I think you’re well-placed to have this discussion. You don’t need to have directly observed it or be her immediate supervisor to have a discussion about this.

      1. MuseumChick*

        This is really good. I would change one thing, “A few days ago I learned there was an incident where you screamed at a restaurant worker on the phone, can you help me understand what happened?” Then she will give her answer and barring something super egregious you can go into the “It’s incredibly important to me and everyone here that our interactions blah blah blah.”

    4. Temperance*

      With a coworker or direct report, I would say something in the moment if I witnessed it. With a direct report, I would follow up if I heard about it from someone else.

      Rudeness towards restaurant workers and other staff has a bad impact on the business.

    5. McWhadden*

      If it was a direct report then I would definitely say something along the lines of “you represent this office when you are dealing with anyone during work hours and this behavior is unacceptable no matter who it is directed at.” (Obviously being associated with the office isn’t the thing, or only thing, that makes it unacceptable but it’s more in line with what you have the ability to talk to him about.)

      Since he’s not a direct report it’s more tricky. I don’t think it’s out of line to mention it to his supervisor though. And if you had witnessed it in the moment it would be totally fine to say something.

    6. Thlayli*

      Was she representing your company on the phone to the restaurant, like it was related to a company meal? Or was she only representing herself as a private person, like it was related to a personal meal she had booked for her family?

      If she was representing your company then you should speak to her and/or her manager as her behaviour reflects badly on your company.

      If she was only representing yourself then chances are the restaurant don’t even know who she works for. You can certainly suggest to her or to her manager that she not have loud screaming phone conversations in the office, but I don’t think you can tell her how to behave in her personal life. You can of course take it into account in your personal opinion of her, but its not your place as a colleague to criticise behaviour that has nothing to do with work.

    7. Former Retail Manager*

      if you didn’t witness the behavior yourself, as it sound like you did not, I would be cautious about speaking to their supervisor as you’d essentially be relaying “hearsay.” If you witnessed it personally that would be a different story. If it really concerns you, I might go back to your source and ask for more details. Also, is this a pattern (happened before, also at work, snippy generally, etc?) or was it a random occurrence. If there is no pattern that you’ve personally observed, I’d again be hesitant because you don’t have all of the facts.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Yeah, it’s part of a pattern that I have already addressed with her manager. She’s an account executive, and account execs are supposed to treat creatives as partners/collaborators, not as subordinates, but she has a tendency to bark at creatives, even ones who are senior to her.

        It sounds like multiple people witnessed the rudeness to the service person so I think her manager may already have been told, but I’d like her manager to address that this is part of her larger pattern that she really needs to break.

    8. JS#2*

      Oh, this is a tough situation! When I worked at an agency, we would regularly go to a restaurant where I used to serve–so I knew everyone there. The agency owner had an inflated sense of entitlement and would occasionally be super rude to the hosts or the manager, and I died a little inside every time, because it made the agency look bad and it made me personally look bad to people I used to work with.

      Since she was the owner, I couldn’t really say anything, so instead I simply refused to pull strings / use my influence to get what she wanted. And then apologized to the restaurant workers when no one was looking. Sometimes I would try to explain to her why a certain restaurant policy was the way it was, but she never wanted the rules to apply to her.

      We were a really small agency, so I don’t know if I would have been brave enough to say anything if it were a coworker!

  21. Free Meerkats*

    Office kitty update.

    We saw a photo of a stray taken in at the Animal Shelter (only 1/2 mile from us) a couple of days after she stopped showing up that looked like her, but the photo didn’t show if the cat had a clipped ear. By the time one of us made it over there, the cat had been adopted, so we are all living under the hopeful view that it was her and she’s in her forever home.

    Her brother misses her.

  22. Seltzer Fan*

    Requesting travel reimbursement after rejection

    I’ve been interviewing for a job that I was really excited about, but learned yesterday that the other finalist accepted the offer. I’m disappointed but I understand the reasoning, and trying not to dwell on it. For the final interview last week, I traveled to a different city, and the company said they’d reimburse travel expenses. I should have just sent the receipt right away but in my excitement I put it off, and now I’d like to include it in my follow up to the rejection. I’m a little worried about how it will come across. Here’s an abbreviated version of what I have drafted:

    Hi [hiring manager],

    Thank you again for calling yesterday! While I’m disappointed to not be joining [company], it sounds like you made the best decision for the team. It was such a pleasure to meet you, and I feel like I’ve learned a ton about [industry] through the conversations that we’ve had over the last few weeks. If you do have any openings in the future, I hope that you’ll keep me in mind!

    I did want to follow up about reimbursement for my train tickets last week. I realized that I hadn’t sent over the receipt yet, which is attached here. If you need any other information to process this, please let me know!

    Best,
    [me]

    Basically, I think I just need a little reassurance that this phrasing is OK. Any thoughts appreciated!

    1. ZSD*

      That seems perfectly-phrased to me. If I received that note from a rejected candidate, I would remember them as professional and gracious.

    4. Murphy*

      I think that sounds fine! It’s very gracious, and the reimbursement language is practical.

    6. Seltzer Fan*

      Thank you all!!

      It’s funny how much this kind of situation can shake your confidence even for little things, very much appreciate the reassurance.

    7. Anona*

      It looks good. I might convert a few exclamation points to periods, but other than that, it reads well.

      1. Seltzer Fan*

        hah! This is my constant struggle. The actual email is a bit longer so the exclamation points are less frequent than they appear here, but I’ll review before I send with that in mind.

    8. Jadelyn*

      That email would win you serious points with me – you’re poised, gracious about having not been selected, no hint of resentment at all, and your reminder about the reimbursement is very matter of fact and forthright without being demanding. I genuinely would be keeping you in mind if we had other openings come up in the future.

  23. Susan K*

    I posted on an open thread a few months ago about my struggles to get my coworkers to use, or even try out, their new company-provided iPads. The good news is that people are starting to warm up to the iPads, even the people who initially wouldn’t even open the box. The bad news is that I think it’s largely because people have discovered that they can use the iPads to go on Facebook during meetings and play video games when they’re supposed to be working. One guy has taken to using it to catch up with relatives on FaceTime during his workday. At least these non-work uses are giving them an incentive to carry their iPads with them, and also helping them get more comfortable and familiar with the iPads.

    I’ve been trying to train people on how to use the iPads for the work-related stuff, but it’s tough because everyone is on different shifts. I have gotten it added to our next regularly-scheduled training session, but that’s several weeks from now. My manager tends to be impulsive and impatient, so he is wanting me to start implementing changes before I think we’re really ready, while I would rather have a more orderly implementation, but I’m doing the best I can.

    1. Afiendishthingy*

      I just realized two weeks ago our department has two new ipads still in their boxes. They were sitting on the shelves behind toxic coworker’s desk. She is very tech un-savvy and also insecure – I think she doesn’t know how to use them, and she wants to be in charge of everything our department does (we do not have a department head or director), so god forbid the rest of us get to have useful technology…

    2. Free Meerkats*

      I’d give the pros and cons of doing it your way and the pros and cons of doing it the boss’s way to the boss (in email) and ask him which way he’d like you to go (in email.) When he says to do it his way, do it his way and let the chips fall. If it goes pear-shaped, you’re covered by the paper trail.

    3. Thlayli*

      It might make you feel better if you remember that one benefit of the use for non-work activities is to get them comfortable with the interface and become more tech-savvy. It’s the same reason windows included those games they have – minesweeper taught people to left and right click, solitaire and free cell taught people to use the mouse etc. All the time we thought we were wasting time, we were being sneakily trained in a new interface!

    4. Totally Minnie*

      I think you can address this in the same way you’d address any sort of inappropriate use of workplace technology. If you found out that one of your employees was playing online poker on his work issued desktop or laptop computer on a regular basis, you’d address it. Treat the iPads the same way. Work issued technology is to be used for mostly work related purposes, and while minor and infrequent personal uses can be okay (checking your personal email on a day when you’re expecting an important message to come through, or something similar), people should be using personal devices for things relating to their personal lives.

      My organization has a written policy to this effect that all new hires who use work issued computers or mobile devices are required to sign off on before we are given access. Does your workplace have anything along those lines? If not, can you get your manager to talk about creating something?

      1. Susan K*

        Yes, my company does have a policy like this, but the managers in my department are not big on enforcing it. They have this idea that if they cut off one person’s internet access, they have to cut off everyone’s internet access, or else they will get accused of discrimination (I know how stupid this is, but that’s their belief). Plus, there are people who work harder at finding ways to goof off at work than they do at their actual jobs, so even if someone takes away their games, they’ll find something else.

  24. Allypopx*

    I’m at work so I may have to ask and come back later – will try to offer clarifications if they are needed but excuse my response time!

    I’m running into a lot of trouble in my current degree problem with things like the singular they not being accepted in academic/business writing. My push backs and resource sharing are not successful because “that’s not how the department teaches” etc.

    This is important to me, and I don’t mind being marked down for using it, but I’m not making any headway getting the point across. Any tips anyone would have for navigating that would certainly be appreciated.

    1. writelhd*

      Unfortunately I think you probably *won’t* get the point across, that’s probably too insanity-making of a battle to take on, departments are not likely to budge on things like this. But if you’re fine accepting the mark down for using it, make the rest of your work so good that the markdown’s don’t keep you from completing the program, and make the choice to do what you want.

    2. matcha123*

      I feel like I was taught to use ‘they’ rather than ‘he/she’ when writing. I’ve always used it and it sounds very natural to me. Merriam-Webster even posted an article about it.
      With that said, if you are going for a degree and your degree depends on other people, you may have to use their style. I’ve run into this at work, too, and maybe if you think about it as an order from a supervisor it might be a bit easier to swallow.
      Basically if you’ve presented them with solid evidence/articles as to why ‘they’ is acceptable and they continue to deny it, then there’s not much you can do. What do Chicago, APA, etc. have to say about it? That might be the best place to search to give your argument teeth.

    3. Forking great username*

      This is a tough one. I’m an English major but with my teaching certification, and I found it interesting that my English and Linguistics professors would leave it alone/agreed with me that it wasn’t improper, while my education professors would frequently mark my down for it and note the correction. I talked to some of them about it – some were swayed by my letting them know that the university’s English and Linguistics department did not consider that to be incorrect, and why.

      However, others just said things like, “Well, in the world of teaching you’ll have people making hiring and other important decisions on your xareee who do see it as wrong, so that’s the standard used here.”

      I didn’t stop using they/them but in classes where I knew the prof wasn’t for this, I would make it non-singular. So instead of saying, “As a student begins high school, they…” I would change ‘a student’ to ‘students’ so that it still used they but wasn’t incorrect.

    4. Jadelyn*

      Would you be comfortable responding to “that’s not how the department teaches” with “that’s not how the department has taught in the past, no, but there’s absolutely no reason not to use it given that it’s been in use for centuries, and the alternative is either clunky and less efficient (he or she, s/he) or outright sexist (default “he”), so I’m going to continue using it. Change has to start somewhere, after all.”

      I mean, singular they has been in use literally since Modern English began to be distinguishable from Middle English – there are examples of it dating back to the fourteenth century. You may not make headway in convincing these particular people to start using it themselves, but they’re really, really not in the right on this one.

    5. Academic Editor*

      Unfortunately, nearly all academic writing refuses to recognize singular “they.” As mush as I use it frequently in speech and non-academic writing, it’s pretty standard across all the style guides to use some variation of “s/he.” This can be field specific, of course, but if your department is telling you “no” then there is not much way to get around it. And some people are like weirdly attached to the idea that “they” cannot be singular (like an undergrad student arguing how “grammatically incorrect” it was with a published expert in a linguistics class that specifically rejected the idea of formal grammar), despite being used that way for literal centuries, which is to say that it just might not be worth the fight.

      1. Reba*

        Chicago states that singular they is gaining ground but still not acceptable in academic writing. They do offer many tips for writing around the issue, here http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/book/ed17/part2/ch05/psec255.html

        It’s annoying but I do agree with others that you should get through your program with its rules, then use singular they to your heart’s content once you’re on your own (although you may still get pushback on it when you go to publish!)

    6. only acting normal*

      Be assured you are correct, your dept is wrong.
      Beyond that… does your school have a published style guide or adhere to a specific 3rd party guide? There’s a slim chance a style guide has moved with the times, but your tutors haven’t read it in recently. Or you may be able to lobby the part of your school in charge of the guide rather than individual teachers or your dept.

    7. Thlayli*

      No department head at a university is going to listen to an undergraduate on how to write academic papers.

      If you can find published peer reviewed articles supporting your opinion they might be willing to read them. Until then you can either use the department approved style or accept the loss of marks.

      1. Allypopx*

        I mean I’m not an undergrad but I’m not talking to the department head for precisely that reason. I’m talking to my professors, who generally like and respect me, in hopes they’ll show either personal flexibility or an inclination to present the issue higher up. I understand why they would not be inclined to do so, I do. But I’m raising the issue.

    8. blackcat*

      Honestly, I don’t think you’ll be able to get the point across.

      Do what they ask and play their game. You can have conversations with fellow students about it, but I wouldn’t try to get the point across to any faculty. Trying will just turn you into “That guy.” And you don’t want to be “that guy.”

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I have seen more than a few examples of this during my years in college. I thought I was pretty much stuck going with what the professor wanted even though I knew it to be wrong. To some extent it feels like “playing the game” give them what they want and then we get the letter grade we want. You said you are not concerned about a few points, so the next step is do you want to spend all your energy fighting this battle. It sounds like you are dealing with Person-Who-Will-Not-Budge. This person is not going to change no matter how much energy and time you put into this. Your only hope is that everyone around them changes and the pressure makes them cave.

    10. Mad Baggins*

      I had an English teacher who was super picky about these kinds of little rules that you could totally argue one way or the other (number of spaces after a period, Oxford comma, singular they, etc). Style-wise I did what she said, and found other ways to express my values. Maybe you can change every generic singular pronoun to “she” like AAM does, or “she” for bosses and “he” for nurses, etc…?

  25. Renee*

    I heard a great aphorism on a podcast last night regarding leadership: hold your people to the highest possible standards, and take the best possible care of them. So, managers, how do you take best possible care of your people (outside of direct compensation)? If you’re not a manager, how do you want to be taken care of?

    As a manager, my list so far includes: respecting off time (nights, weekends, and vacations), allowing for flexibility in how they get their work done, taking time to explain the ‘why’ behind what they’re doing, listening and accepting feedback, allowing for constructive disagreement and debate, and giving constructive criticism promptly in a direct yet kind manner.

      1. Renee*

        Oh, yes, this is an important one. I always appreciate getting positive feedback from my managers.

    4. Lora*

      Defending them from BS. When another manager doesn’t want to take responsibility for something they screwed up and they are trying to blame your people, you gotta step up and go to bat for them. When a senior manager is in Freakout Mode and trying to throw good people under the bus, you get him to calm down and do a real root cause analysis. When someone has mysteriously decided that in lieu of a real time motion study he wants to pull unrealistic numbers from his rectum, you insist on realistic numbers.

      Also, doing the office politics. Have seen many managers who claim they hate office politics and stay out of them, but in real life if you want a fair chunk of budget and resources for what your department is being tasked with, then you will have to be in both management’s and other departments’ faces, reminding them what you do for them and how great your people are and how much they deserve piles of money.

      And also being as transparent with them as you can. There’s always going to be things you can’t talk about, but for many things you don’t actually have to be need-to-know, you can explain the rationale. Managers’ instinct in crap situations like layoffs tends to be to clam up, but you can say SOME things like, “we haven’t decided yet what the criteria will be for layoffs, but here’s the timeline for making that decision and I’ll tell you as soon as I know” or whatever.

      1. Sunflower*

        Wow I really agree with all of this. I think these things really highlight the parts of management that a lot of people hate but are truly necessary in being successful.

      2. NW Mossy*

        Transparency is one that’s really underrated, and something I really strive for as a manager because I appreciate it so much from my own management.

        Right now I’m mentoring someone who’s interested in management, and today we talked about how we assess performance and decide raises at this company. It was all brand-new information to her (as it is to basically every individual contributor I’ve ever told about it), and that’s a shame. Everyone should know at a high-level what the timeline is, who’s involved in the decisions, what constraints decision-makers have, and the overall objectives. Otherwise, people write their own stories about how these decisions are made, and they’re often a lot less flattering than reality.

    5. Kelsi*

      My manager is terrific. One of the ways she supports me the most is by supporting me in enforcing my boundaries, and enforcing them for me as necessary. What I mean by that is–she trusts my judgment in what I can and can’t do with the time and resources given to me. She never undermines me when I tell someone that I won’t be able to do what they’re asking for (say, because I’m not a web developer) or that I can do it but not on the timeline requested (because other people have high priority projects as well)–and, in some cases, she stops requests like that before they even reach me (when they come from higher levels or from meetings she’s in but I’m not.) She also steps in when I receive pushback from people and they need to hear “no” from someone higher-up.

      I’ve been able to be a higher performer under her management than the entire rest of the time I’ve been at this agency (more than a decade). I definitely don’t think that’s an accident–because now when I set deadlines, I know I’m going to be able to meet them because I won’t be blindsided by projects people didn’t plan well for. I’m able to get my work done much more quickly, because she’s supported me in setting up and maintaining the work flow that I do best with.

    6. The Cleaner*

      One of the best things my boss does is make sure I am visible to other people in leadership. If he is presenting to our board on a project, he will make sure I am present and will redirect questions to me about specific components of the project. When he is recognized for a successful outcome, he is inclusive in his public response, and is specific about his team’s contributions (“Thank you! The great work done by Abby on our communications, and Steve’s ability to customize the software, were key to the project’s success!”)

      1. Lumen*

        This is huge. Every time my boss or grand-boss tell me something positive that our great-grand boss (C level) said about me specifically, or how impressed they were with my work on X, it is such a good feeling.

    8. Jadelyn*

      Two more big ones: treating your employees like humans when they’re having a bad day or struggling, and approaching that from a place of “how can I help resolve this?” rather than “you’re need to sort yourself out.”

      And, being willing to run interference with the higher-ups/use your influence on behalf of your staff counts for a LOT with me. One of the best things my manager does for me is, if I need to be able to focus on a project, I just have to tell her I’m blocking off X period of time for Y project, I’m going to turn on my email bounceback message and send my phone straight to voicemail and route all attempts to drag me into something over to her, and she takes over for that duration of time, steps up and tells people “no” for me, including people I can’t really say “no” to. She’ll also volunteer to make phone calls to people who are not responding to me, because they might feel like they can ignore me, but very few people feel like they can ignore her.

      There was also one very memorable time when our VP (her boss, my grandboss) was freaking out over something I’d sent him, because he’d called me in a panic like “I need this document LITERALLY RIGHT THIS SECOND” so I slammed the sub-documents into a single PDF and sent it to him right away, total lag time between call and hitting send was about 60 seconds, and because he was so freaked out with urgency I didn’t take the extra couple of minutes to create a new cover page for the compiled document like I normally would have.

      He opened it, saw the cover page from the first sub-document rather than the overall cover page I would normally have added when creating the compiled doc, and assumed that I’d just sent him that one subdocument and not the compiled document he needed. So he called my manager and yelled at her about me “sending him the wrong thing.” She pulled me into her office and put it on speaker – I explained that the whole compiled document was in there, just keep scrolling and you’ll see the rest of it, and told him I hadn’t added the new cover page because he’d said he needed it right this second and even I have my limits on what I can do in under a minute – he could either have perfect or he could have immediate, but not both, and from the tone of his call it sounded very much like he wanted the latter, so that’s what I went with.

      He started to yell at me, then, about “sub-par work” (which is wildly out of character for him, because I’m one of the highest performers on my team and normally he regards me as just shy of a miracle worker, but he was super stressed and being hounded for this document by his own boss) – and my manager spoke over him, loudly but calmly, and said, “You will not speak to my employee that way when she actually did get you what you needed, appropriate to the level of urgency you conveyed in your request to her. Call us back when you’ve calmed down.” And she hung up on him.

      I remember giving her a horrified stare, thinking “oh my god, what have you done?” She laughed it off, she and the VP had worked together for like 10 years at various companies so she knew he would calm down and apologize in a bit, and not stay mad at her for hanging up. But then she very seriously added that she saw it as her responsibility as my manager to try to shield me from shit rolling downhill as much as she could, and she was not okay with anyone being rude and disrespectful to me regardless of the reason. If someone had that bad of a problem with me, they could come to her, and she would deal with them and then be the one to come talk with me if necessary.

      She won a LOT of loyalty from me that day. I can’t tell you how amazing it felt to see my manager standing up to her manager for me like that.

    9. A username for this site*

      One thing I would think an excellent boss does, but I have seen many fail on, is being willing to be nice and fair to everyone, even if it may mean risking seeming unfair to others.

      I’ve worked in many an environment where all of the top performers were scrambling and making a considerable sacrifice to cover someone else’s inadequacies (excessive absenteeism, general laziness/not completing tasks, not preparing adequately for events, bullying/harassment) but no manager was willing to address the root cause that was making 10 people miserable because they were afraid to seem “mean” to the 11th person who was creating all of these issues.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Make sure the employees have the tools they need to do their jobs.
      Make sure the tools are in good working order. Broken chair?- get a new one, right away.

      Be available to explain company expectations and department expectations BEFORE a problem happens. If you miss this step, own it. Shoulder the failure, do not let the employee take a full hit for it.

      Check to make sure employees are aware of the benefits/PTO etc. Don’t make them ask.

      Let your people have some control over their work practices, work flows and SOPs. The best ideas usually come from the people actually doing the work. If something is too labor intensive and you need it streamlined, ask THEM how best to do that. Let them participate in the new plan.

    11. Chaordic One*

      At the best job I ever had, my managers had an excellent grasp of what I was doing and how long it would take to do it. There were rarely any unreasonable deadlines and my managers were excellent at letting me know what the priorities were. It was like they were psychic.

  26. Nervous Accountant*

    It’s been extremely busy, feels like tax season minus the tax returns and the tears lol. We’re revamping a lot of things, getting new software and getting up to speed etc.

    EVALS ARE DUE TODAY and I’m still not done wtih mine SMH! I can’t locate my prior one–not that I copy paste it but I always use a previous one to jump off of. And every year I tell myself I will note accomplishments throughout the year so this time is easier. But no. All I can think of is…..working through tax season got me through the absolute worst days of my life. Only my boss & mgr will read it and they already know this, but it feels weird to put it in writing. I’m less incline to work so hard on it bc I am not getting as big a raise as last year or promotion for reasons.

    Anyway, so I’m in more of a leadership role. I’m included in a lot more manager meetings now, and had to speak in some of them. Jeez I get nervous AF, feeling like I don’t belong there. Worse are the training meetings. They’re going to happen frequently and it’s very possible that I will have to lead them last minute. I’m having a hard enough time getting up to speed on the processes, and then figuring out a way to explain it easily to everyone, and not miss it. I stutter and get so nervous ugh esp when it’s so last minute.

    Does it get better? Anyone else feel like this? How do I stop.. being me.

    1. LQ*

      It does get better. It does. It might always be hard, but it does get better.

      You don’t stop being you, you …YOU at the problem. That’s why you’re in the role, because you YOU. What you do is good enough to get promoted and into a leadership role, so you turn that hard work and energy at the problem of the leadership role. It is a problem like any other, and you solve it like you would any difficult or confusing tax return. You dig in, you understand the problem, you work the problem, you resolve it.

      And for the training thing, one of the best ways to learn a process is to train it, so going into all of them as if you are going to have to train it can help you learn it better. You’re just at the peak of the learning pyramid.

      Go do you!

    2. Ruth (US)*

      Regarding impostor syndrome – it does get better! I’m three years into my first position that requires my master’s degree, and it took about a year before I felt competent and stopped feeling like I didn’t belong, despite having the right experience and qualifications for the position.

      Regarding your nerves about training meetings – my experience has been that the more I’ve done public speaking, the less nervous I feel about it, to the point where speaking up in meetings and sometimes leading them feels routine to me. I also do training, and the more comfortable I am with the material, the more comfortable I am doing the training (although that may not help if you frequently have to learn new material and then turn around and present it to others). I had the option to observe a very experienced trainer in a few sessions before I had to do it on my own, and she also shared her lesson plans and handouts with me, which was very helpful. Are you in a position to get some mentoring from a more experienced trainer at your company, or would it be possible for you to do some professional development (like Toastmasters) related to training/public speaking?

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Practice for the training meetings.
      Take a new topic and practice explaining to yourself as you stand in front of the bathroom mirror.
      Here the goal is not to pick the actual thing you will have to present, the goal is to practice pulling a training out of thin air.

      My friend had a terrible time with stuttering. I felt so bad for her. If you listened to her talk, she was running out of air. I told her take a deep breath, let it go nice and easy, take another deep breath and then start to talk. She said, “Someone else said the same thing.” Yeah, well. So she started doing this and it worked almost instantly, her stuttering dropped by easily 75% the first day she tried it. Breathe. Maybe even do some breathing exercises here and there when you are not working.

      Don’t forget you can ask if anyone has insights they would like to share that you have not touched on. This takes pressure off of you, allows others a moment in the sun and keeps the group engaged.

    4. MamaCat*

      In regards to noting your accomplishments for the next year: do you have to-do lists you make and work off of? If so, save them in one folder, either in your desk or on your computer (depending on if they’re digital or physical), and voila, you have a list of your accomplishments (or at least something to jar your memory with). Hope this helps!

  27. bluelyon*

    Mostly a rant but there it leads to a bigger question
    My job sucks, my boss doesn’t love conflict and expends all her energy for it fighting our ED to get the support we need for my department to work. This means that my evil horrid co-worker Jane has no reason to stop undermining me, yelling at me and screwing up my work. (Twice in the last 3 weeks she’s opened a file attached to an email and saved it over the more recent version on the sever losing my work in the process – and claims it’s an accident)
    This job is terrible but I need to make it through to the end of the year – I’m looking at October 15th before I can look for jobs and that’s on the soon end.
    Beyond that my personal life is falling to pieces as well in large part due to my misery and stress from work. I’ve gained weight, have no energy for things I love and no motivation.

    How have others managed keeping afloat emotionally and physically in scenarios like this? I’m at my wits end and the doctor was mostly of the – suck it up and exercise and cut out stress. Which – I know but isn’t helping.

    1. irene adler*

      I find that talking to someone outside of the issues can help relieve the frustration and stress.
      On the other end of the spectrum, finding something to occupy your mind that is totally outside the realm of work and personal life can help too. Books, a tv show, things like that work for me.

    2. Jen*

      I try to pretend I’m an anthropologist in the field studying (in my case) racist old white guys who bully and nitpick for a hobby. It helps me stay detached. Some days I can really get into character.

    3. Ellie*

      Save copies of the work in an additional place so when she ‘accidently’ messes something up again, you’ve got the right stuff. I know that doesn’t address her being a jerk, but after working with jerks for years, I’ve learned to structure things to ensure that they cannot mess with my day.

      And if she yells, I think you should use an Alison script and say, “It looks like this isn’t a good time for you- let’s talk later,” then walk off. Do what you need to do to get away from her. You deserve respect and courtesy each and every day!! If she doesn’t know how to act like a human being, she doesn’t get to talk to you. I know that’s easy for me to say, but remember that YOU MATTER.

      Also, find a better doctor!!! I got those sort of foolish responses to requests for help, and when I found a real doctor who listened, I got real help and experienced a real improvement.

    4. Becky*

      on a practical note, is it possible to prevent the losses of the saving over on the server by having name appended versions? For example, if your document is Q2Strategy.docx then name your drafts or changes Q2Strategy7132018.docx and always date/save your work under that name and then the again as a “final” version as Q2Strategy.docx so all you need to do if it gets accidentally overwritten again is to find the last version and rename to the proper file? If there is a liklihood that someone would delete the date versions then could they be saved in a different location or folder on the server?

      1. Anon for this one*

        OldJob kept an _old folder in every subcategory so we could always find the latest version. Also had rules about naming files (with date and user’s initials) but even if you can’t get Jane to follow that, you’ll have the old versions ready to go.

        Also just… detach emotionally from work is what helped me. Remember that line from the Facebook movie–“You have a fragment of my attention, you have the barest amount”? That was my attitude. Spent my day trying to recall as much of Hamilton as I could, did the bare minimum, stopped wasting energy on trying to fix things or imagine ways they could be improved. Listened to the Meditation Minis podcast in the bathroom or on breaks. Instead of using my free time to store up energy to fight through another day at work, I tried to refocus my mind to store up energy while at work to LIVE while I was at home. I had dropped so many hobbies, wasn’t eating/exercising well–instead of “I can’t go out tonight, I have to rest so I can survive to fight Jane at work tomorrow” I thought, “I can’t waste time and energy fighting Jane, I’m seeing the new Marvel movie with a friend tonight!” or “I can’t be bothered to redo this whole thing to please Jane, I have to leave at 4 for the therapist!”

        It’s definitely not easy, but take care of yourself first! You are strong and you can do this!!

    5. Lumen*

      First of all: your job really does suck. Why do you have to wait until mid-October before you can even start looking for work?

      Second: I’m concerned for your health and a little pissed off at your doctor for not giving you more help. The things you’re mentioning warrant more than ‘suck it up’. Exercise doesn’t necessarily work for everyone, and it’s not a panacea that will cure all that ails you.

      Third: is there any way at all that you can talk to a professional about the issues in your personal life and the feelings you’re having? An EAP, an income-scaled therapy option, etc? Even an online therapy arrangement might work, and they’re usually less expensive.

      Fourth: whatever you do, don’t double down on yourself for not being happier, dealing with it better, etc. You are in a terrible situation and it is affecting you. That’s okay. That doesn’t mean that you’re weak or bad or whatever. Sometimes you just gotta give yourself permission to say “I feel ____ and I wish I didn’t, but it won’t last forever.”

      In summary: feeling like this isn’t just normal adulthood, and you shouldn’t just have to ‘deal with it’. You deserve to feel okay even if you’re temporarily stuck in a crappy job. The problem is not that you aren’t tough enough or doing the right thing: the problem is that you’re in an untenable situation and you need help and you aren’t getting it.

      I really hope the best for you, bluelyon.

      1. Ruth (US)*

        I would definitely echo this, especially the part about therapy/counseling. You don’t even need to do it longterm; just a few sessions might be enough to give you the tools you need to help with your ongoing stress.

        But as someone who’s been through a similar situation (in a job I came to hate with no immediate prospects for leaving, but without the sabotaging coworker – WTF???), all of this is excellent advice for self-care.

    6. DaniCalifornia*

      -Mantras for each situation. Repeated over and over.
      -Looking at pictures of humorous or funny things. Can help calm me down after a bad day.
      -Getting ready for my job search. Even if I can’t search right away, making sure my resume/cover letters/refs are in order and have been reviewed by others. Researching new companies. It helped me a bit through tax season this year since I can’t go on interviews during that time.

      Can you not protect the file on the server so Jane can’t make edits. Or at least save it to your computer as well so when she does change it you don’t lose work? I’ve done that with some procedural documentation because the temp person each season would accidentally edit it.

      Honestly it SUCKS to exercise after long hard stressful days. But I’ve found it’s the biggest difference for me and my mood and how I feel. Even if I talk about how much I’m hating exercise while I do it (with my husband laughing at me) I never feel bad after. I sleep better. Which helps more with work. It takes about a week for it to start taking affect but every time I stop I go back to feeling even more miserable.

    7. LCL*

      Does Jane actually have to do work on these files? Can you send her copy protected or PDF versions? Or if she has to work on them, can you set them up with track changes enabled?
      As for the yelling, don’t tolerate it. You can either call her on it when she is doing it, or say I can’t talk to you when you’re yelling, then walk away. Or just walk away when she starts in on you.

    8. bluelyon*

      Thanks everyone – these are some helpful tips
      – to the doctor point I probably should have gone into more detail – she’s generally great and always tells me what I need to hear -this has been the first time I didn’t get something that was really helpful from her in the entire course of our relationship. Particularly with exercise -I’m a marathon runner so telling me to actually get off my but and run and train is at least solid advice. Obviously that doesn’t work for the zillions of people who aren’t marathon runners.
      – Can’t start looking until October because my professional reputation would take a pretty big hit if word got out that I was job searching before our two major events. (Our gala is 9/29 and Giving Tuesday is a pretty big deal for us) I run both of those. I can start looking between them but before would be bad news.
      – Sadly Jane and I both need to make updates to these documents. They’re collaborative team ones and my boss has made clear that she hates it when people create versions with dates/initials/etc delineating whose version is whose. And – since it’s only a 4 person team 3 of whom update these docs it shouldn’t be that big a deal.

      I always struggle with the idea of therapy* because I tend to be able (for better or worse and probably worse) to look at my life and go well I was really happy a year ago and then these three things changed and now I’m miserable. And I know that if I change this fourth thing two of the three things will improve so why bother finding a therapist/counselor who will tell me to change the fourth thing after time, money and filling out forms. *I also had a pretty lousy experience the one time I tried it which has left me a bit gunshy about trying again

      1. TCPA*

        When I was having a rough time work-wise earlier this year, I found meditating when I first woke up or right before going to bed was incredibly helpful. Usually about 10-15 minutes. I’d never done it before, and started using the app Headspace, which has nice guided meditations of varying lengths/purposes/topics. After a few weeks of meditation I really noticed myself starting to relax and not feel so anxious all the time, especially when stressful work situations came up. It feels nice to have that quiet, peaceful time for myself each day. Best of luck to you!

    9. Not So NewReader*

      no energy for things I love and no motivation.

      This sounds so much like where I have been. Take control of your diet, eat real meals. It matters. The amount of stress and dread you have is eating up all your vitamins and minerals which in turn takes your coping tools. My go-to in times like this was to load up on carbs which dragged me down, waaaay down. This means more stress. Consider a drink with electrolytes in it, consider a protein drink. Make yourself eat a salad once a day.

      Make a list of things you will do in October when this job is done. See how many things you can start right now.

      What are you reading? Put the newspaper down. There’s very little good in the news. Teach yourself something, read some self-help books or just read stuff about people doing good things.

      If you don’t go to bed at a set time, start doing this. If you are doing this, then consider adding an hour of rest every other day or mid-week or whatever seems right.

      Unfortunately, it seems that the negative just happens to us and we don’t have to do anything. But if we want positive we have to create it ourselves. So what positive thing would you like to do? Keep it simple and doable, so that you actually do it. Just pick one thing and decide that it WILL happen this week. Watch out for the concept of postponed happiness. Decide that concept does not work and you do not have to wait until October to find something positive for yourself in life.

  28. Appointment*

    Hey…I had something weird and amusing happen at work. I recently asked for a morning off at work for an “appointment.” And now I think my boss suspects I’m interviewing for another job.
    She emailed me back asking me to “hang tight” about something we discussed.

    It’s not though. I’m actually visiting a therapist for the first time. (Yay?)

    My question is. Do I assure her I’m not interviewing? Or do I let her stew? It actually might me get the thing I wanted at work. But it seems dangerous.

    1. LadyByTheLake*

      Don’t comment on it. You can have an appointment and what it is for is none of her business.

      1. Appointment*

        Oh no, she’s giving me the time off. I’m just feeling guilty that she’s panicking that I’m finding another job.

        I’m not going to tell her details, but should I assure her it’s just a doctor’s appointment?

        1. motherofdragons*

          I say this with kindness: Her (possible) anxiety isn’t your responsibility. No need to assure her. I hope therapy goes awesomely!

        2. blackcat*

          If it’ll make you feel better, you can shoot a her a note and say “Do you mean “hang tight” about scheduling? I’m trying to make a medical appointment, so I’d like to know ASAP if that morning will work.”

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Let her stew. :) If you deserve a raise or promotion, and you’ve discussed a raise or a promotion, then take it. It doesn’t matter if you’re interviewing or not, and you’re certainly not lying to her or deliberately misleading her. She’s drawing her own conclusions.

    4. Seltzer Fan*

      I wouldn’t explain! Let her think that if she wants, especially if it seems like that’s making her reflect on how valuable you are to the company.

      And good on you for therapy—it’s always worth it.

        1. Lumen*

          I’ve seen two therapists in the past at different times in my life, and next week I have my first session with a third. I’ve been anxious every time. It’s a new person, and one you’re going to end up being very vulnerable with (hopefully! because otherwise therapy isn’t going to do much good).

          So that is normal! And it’s why you should be proud of yourself for being so brave and taking such good care of yourself. It takes a lot of wisdom and courage to say “hey, I could really use some help”… and then go GET it.

          I think of counseling a little like working out. If you want to push yourself and really grow and become stronger, it’s best and safest to have a trainer who can guide your progress, “spot” you during difficult work, encourage you to keep going, and make sure you don’t slack off or regress.

          I wish you an open mind, lots of healing, and the best of luck.

        2. LilySparrow*

          I’ve met with 4 therapists and worked with 2 of them. They were all just nice people in ordinary offices. The first meeting is usually just to go over any intake paperwork and ask very innocuous questions like, “what prompted you to call” and “how are you feeling today”.

          Tell them you’re nervous – that’s very normal and they’ll help put you at ease. They’re not going to push you at the first meeting, just get some ideas of where your needs are and what sort of steps might be helpful for you.

    5. Sunflower*

      Let her stew. You don’t want to set the precedent for divulging information every time you need to be OOO. And yes, you should definitely keep some mystery about what you are doing. It won’t hurt.

    8. CatCat*

      It’s none of her beeswax.

      And you’re assuming what she’s assuming. Don’t bring it up.

      If you’re assumption is correct, that’s on all her own doing in her mind and not your responsibility to manage. It may spur her to make improvements to the deal you’ve got (or at least open up a conversation about such improvements) if she thinks you’re interviewing and could get a better deal somewhere else.

    10. Yorick*

      If anything, you can tell her you’re happy in the job and all that without telling her what your appointment was for.

    11. nep*

      You can’t act on just assumptions and projections. Leave things be. And good luck with the therapy.

  29. ThatGirl*

    It has been an interesting week.

    First, after we finalized a corporate divestiture on Monday, I watched one of my admittedly not-the-best-performer co-workers get walked out. I suspect it had been in the works for awhile, but I had just complained to our manager about her last week (and have complained about her here) so the timing was interesting. We’re at like half staff right now, but we should have a new person soon (that hiring was already in the works) and I’m hoping they replace her soon.

    And then today my husband, who works for a small counseling dept at a university, learned the acting/interim director is leaving – the actual director left in May, they haven’t even POSTED the job for her replacement yet, and now someone else is leaving. He feels super screwed and stuck there, and I feel bad for him. The administration is so incompetent.

  30. Snark*

    I’m trying very, very hard, and largely failing, to not get incredibly irritated, impatient, and annoyed with how long it’s taking my new employer to extend a final, firm offer. I applied for this position in mid-March. I was the only selected applicant. I received a tentative offer and completed my onboarding paperwork a MONTH ago. I completed my drug test three weeks ago. I completed my physical ten days ago. And still, I’m anxiously checking my email every few hours, waiting for the process to FINALLY end.

    I’m excited about the position and am looking forward to my new coworkers and boss. I think this will be great. I’m looking forward to the job security and the opportunities for advancement. But I’m going to have to try a little longer, and harder, to stop being incredibly irritated that I’ve spent months blowing through my savings, deferring house projects, and cutting expenses because the human resources center is sl0w-walking this at every opportunity.

      1. Snark*

        It will. Sometime in the next week or two, I’m sure, when I’m traveling internationally for five days, returning for 12 hours, and then turning around for a domestic trip.

    3. SophieChotek*

      Oh, I would be so nervous and irritated too! I hope the offer comes through soon! I admit I don’t understand why the final, firm offer hasn’t come yet.

      1. Snark*

        Neither do I. It’s not like much work remains to be done. I know the local HR guy sent it all to the person who makes the final offer on Wednesday of last week. But that’s been the pattern this entire time: you fling paperwork into a black box, and at some indeterminate (and interminable) time later, the process lurches forward another step.

    4. Susan K*

      Yikes… I almost wonder if you are my new coworker, because this seems very similar to how my company operates (except that they usually have the drug test and physical on the same day), and we have someone waiting for paperwork to go through. HR has no sense of urgency to complete the process expeditiously because it’s just paperwork to them, and candidates are afraid to be assertive because they’re worried about jeopardizing their new jobs. I hope you don’t have to wait much longer!

      1. Snark*

        It’s the federal government, so probably not the same, but….well, as they say in Thailand, same same but different.

    5. Overeducated*

      This happened to me a few months ago and it was incredibly frustrating. Hope you hear back soon.

    6. Snark*

      I should post about winning the lottery now, because SWEET F*CKING FINALLY-ASS I LITERALLY JUST RECEIVED THE FIRM OFFER.

    7. Sometimes Wallflower*

      I just went through this exact thing – started interviewing in March, accepted the offer and completed the onboarding in May, and didn’t get a start date until the end of June! I was collecting unemployment and absolutely paranoid that the offer was going to fall through because they were dragging their heels so long and I’d be out of unemployment benefits AND without any job prospects.

      Fortunately for me the job was well worth the wait and once I started working I was able to let go of all the irritation almost immediately. I hope it works out for you the same way. Just try to be gracious about the process – usually the hiring manager is as frustrated with the hold-up as you are.

    8. Kat in VA*

      I have no advice but I’m right there with you. Five weeks in and it looks like it may go to six weeks, and rescinding a comment about “approval for a job offer” (now it’s “we’re interviewing other candidates to compare you to”). If the hiring manager actually makes a decision next Friday, it’ll be over six weeks in.

    9. Bookworm*

      Congratulations on the new job!
      In US you have to have drug test and physical? I have never hear of this in Canada for a regular office job even at executive level. Cops, firefighters, pilots… I can see why, but why do you need physical for an office job? Can you fail it? What are the criteria for being accepted? What if you have pre existing condition or congenital condition? Would it be a reason for rejection?
      Seems and feels very discriminating

      1. Snark*

        So, regarding the physical, I’ll be the facility’s natural and cultural resources manager, so I will have a certain amount of field work, surveys, contractor oversight, and so on. It wasn’t a very rigorous physical, but the position will require me to lift 40-50lb, operate offroad vehicles, and walk for an hour or two in 95 degree summers and possibly in 30-40 degree winter days too. It’s not all that common, but appropriate for my position.

        As far as the drug test goes, I’ll be working in an insanely secure area and facility with requirements for clearances and background checks.

  31. SophieChotek*

    Mini-Vent

    I submitted a press release/information about our company. My boss asked to see a copy of the press release and found a factual error in it. Boss acknowledges that the error is not my fault; that the error originated in a different department (that did not check their own facts/conversions carefully enough), but the result is that now she wants me to submit all my press releases to her for fact-checking so this doesn’t happen again.

    Sigh…

    1. WorkerBea*

      I feel like the better way to handle that would have been to address it with the dept that made the error and putting some extra step in place to add some level of QC/fact checking by you as part of your work flow instead of micromanaging your work.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes , I admit this is my feeling too. Though LadybytheLake has a good point also – that I am probably taking this too personally.

    2. ExcelJedi*

      Can she be CC’ed on the briefs from the other department for the other departments? It seems stupid to fact check AFTER the writing/copy-editing goes into a press release…

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      It sounds like you are taking this as a reflection on you, and you shouldn’t be. Your boss is rightfully concerned that other departments are providing erroneous information, so to guard against it, she needs to check them first. I am having a hard time trying to imagine how else the boss could do this double check without . . . doing a double check.

    4. foolofgrace*

      Sounds like you’re going to have to start doing your own fact-checking before you submit it to the boss so that you can at least say you’re being proactive and taking that extra step. Eventually your boss might lighten up and trust you like before.

    5. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Probably not what you want to hear, but I totally understand your boss on this one.

      Her responsibility is accurate press releases. The only way for her to feel comfortable with that is for her to have final review. It sounds like you didn’t have enough information to spot the factual inaccuracy from the other team so unfortunately she can’t be assured that you would be able to catch future ones (to be fair she may not either, but then it’s her mistake and her responsibility).

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks! I appreciate your perspective. That helps me put it into perspective also.

    6. Not In NYC Anymore*

      I know this probably feels like your boss doesn’t trust you, but that’s probably not the case. Every press release should be double and triple checked for accuracy by people who aren’t involved in writing it. I was at my last company about 20 years. I always asked that press releases be run through me because I knew the big picture and could pick up nuances that might come back to hurt us, plus I had the institutional knowledge to pick out inaccurate numbers or statements. I might not have known the correct number, but I could tell when it wasn’t right. While it would be nice if the the people supplying the info we request for a press release would fact check that info first, it just doesn’t always work that way. If I were you, I’d double check all the numbers and assertions you can, then just send it to your manager for a second look. This isn’t personal. It’s just doing everything possible to prevent mistakes from going out – which will happen on occasion anyway.

  32. The Commenter Formerly Known as Still Looking*

    Update since my last ramblings in April and May! I’ve been at my new job 2 months. It’s a great match for my skills and working style, and I LOVE it!  My manager is sane. My co-workers are sane. The culture is sane. It’s busy, but not stressful. I’m challenged and learning new things.

    My last job was so toxic and awful I was having panic attacks and had a major depressive relapse that was so bad at one point I could not get out of bed and was worried I’d have to take medical leave and/or would not recover. Once the meds kicked in I was functional enough, but barely so. Job hunting added to my stress, and there was that one company that got all weird after it looked like they were prepared to offer that just left my head reeling.

    I do have chronic recurring major depression, GAD, and PTSD and was worried the issue was me and changing jobs wouldn’t solve anything, but I noticed a change right away the first week of my new job. I had motivation to get out of bed and get out the door on time. It was like night and day. I am so relieved getting into a better environment made a difference. I was starting to believe my career was over.

    1. Kelsi*

      Congrats!! It’s good to be aware that a change in situation won’t magically cure mental health issues (oh man is that a lesson we all have to learn) but it can definitely make things easier to manage. I’m so glad things are improving for you!

      1. The Commenter Formerly Known as Still Looking*

        Or make things worse! I’ve been reminded how sensitive I am to my environment when things are off-kilter in my brain. This was the worst bout of depression and anxiety I’ve had in 20 years. The fact my exjob was not understanding of the time and flexibility I needed to keep psych appointments just made it worse. I stopped seeing my therapist and was reluctant to schedule an appt with my psychiatrist when I knew I needed additional meds. It wasn’t a good situation. In other job this was never an issue. I never went without care when I needed it or felt like I had to choose between being seen as a good employee and my health.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Companies really have their heads in the sand regarding how much they drive up their own health care costs.
      I am so glad you are in a better place.

  33. Cancer Sucks*

    I recently completed treatment for cancer (final tests pending! Fingers crossed!). Through the entirety of my treatment, my manager has been great. With her support, I’ve been able to maintain almost full hours by building a schedule around chemo, and she’s also let me out of some duties that were beyond me. I’m trying to think of a good way to thank her. An email seems trite, asking for an in-person meeting seems excessive and a waste of her time, and a gift seems inappropriate. Any suggestions?

      3. Emily S.*

        Yes, a nice, thoughtfully-written thank you card.

        When I write these sorts of messages, I often find it helpful to do rough drafts first (even for a very short note), and organize my thoughts that way, ensure that I’m wording things the way I want to, and so on. It helps to write out that draft (or even more than one draft, sometimes), so you can figure out what all want to say/write, and think it through.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Card. Handwritten message (i.e., don’t get a greeting card with a trite poem in it). I don’t think a small gift is inappropriate if you keep it to something like a bar of her favorite chocolate. The message doesn’t have to be super effusive, just thanking her for her support during the process.

      Fingers crossed!!! Congrats on getting through!

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        I agree. With this scenario it isn’t a holiday or made up appreciation day. Food usually goes over well since you don’t have to guess someone’s hobbies and is more widely accepted.

    4. rageismycaffeine*

      As a fellow cancer survivor, congrats on finishing your treatment!! let me know in a reply if you want a cancer buddy to talk through the period after treatment with and I’ll figure out a way to get you my information. I personally found the period after cancer to be much harder than the treatment itself. I’m just over two years out now.

      I also had very supportive coworkers. It helped. A lot.

    5. NW Mossy*

      I’ll throw in another vote for a note – I got a really lovely one from an employee that I managed during the early stages of cancer treatment. I later moved on to another role, but he made a point to reach out and let me know when he was declared cancer-free, which I really appreciated.

      That said, even emails can work. I’ve got an employee who’s dealing with a pretty serious personal situation right now, and part of how he’s dealing is to relocate and work remotely. We’ve been exchanging emails throughout the whole approval/logistics process of going remote, and it’s clear from each and every one that he really appreciates my help in making this happen for him. Considering how close I came to losing him as an employee, the gratitude’s mutual!

    6. CAA*

      In addition to what everyone else has said, if your company does 360 evals, don’t forget to mention how supportive she was next time you have an opportunity to evaluate her. It’s also not out of line to bring it up if you find yourself alone with her manager some time, like after a meeting or on an elevator.

      Also, if her letting you out of some duties meant that your teammates had to pick up the slack, then a thank you email to the group that was affected, along with something like cookies or cupcakes in the break room, would be a really nice gesture.

    8. Cancer Sucks*

      Thanks for the suggestions! Everyone seems unanimous on a note/card, so I’ll do that.

      rageismycaffeine also mentioned supportive coworkers and hot damn do I have those too. About a month into treatment I noticed that I had about 200 hours more vacation time than I thought I did (and I assure you, I do not accrue vacation that fast). So I called the benefits office, thinking it an error, and was told, “your co-workers donated that to you.” I didn’t even know this was something that was possible. They’ve also been great with giving me rides, sending me notes, giving me gifts (I got a massive bag of head covers, chocolate, silly movies, tea, and even a goddamn t-shirt), and such. So I’m planning on bringing baked goods in and also hanging a sign in the break room as a thank-you.

  34. GG Two shoes*

    Question: I know Alison has answered this before, but I can’t find it. What is the verbiage/custom in a cover letter when applying for a job that is similar to a job you applied for last time and got a to the second round of interviews?

    I applied last year around this time to a Director of Tea Pots job, now I see they have a Director of teapots, regional potting job open that I would like to apply for but I’m not sure how to word it to say I applied for a similar job before.

    Any tips, or can anyone find the article she addressed this in, please?

      1. GG Two shoes*

        I saw this, but I don’t think it was! The one I was thinking was more recent, and had verbiage for a cover letter in the answer I believe. Thanks for looking, though!

  35. SophieChotek*

    Thanks!

    About my query 2 weeks ago regarding sheers/hosiery…

    Thanks to all. Based on your feedback, I did not wear any. And I am glad I did not because
    a) it was hot
    b) I didn’t see anyone else (even older women) wearing them

    And it was still a pretty formal event (banquet, awards ceremony in the industry).

    Thanks for your sartorial (even if virtual) assistance.

    2. Specialk9*

      I know one person who always wore them, and it made me view her as a bit out of touch. Like her grandma had taught her the rules of the workplace and she hadn’t noticed what they were through looking around. But it was also a nice thought too, like aww you have a grandma you listen to.

      1. only acting normal*

        I wear (very) sheers to work because
        1) the office is cold and they allow me to dress vaguely summery in summer,
        2) I am extremely pale, my legs especially so, and the right colour sheers add a subtle hint of colour which makes me look less like the Grim Reaper,
        3) I have uneven skin tone on my legs (quite a lot of mottled scarring) and sheers even it out just enough to allay my self-consciousness.
        I do go bare legged outside work though.

  36. My Cat Posted This For Me*

    Has anyone else struggled to finish a major project and had to just keep trying while feeling terrible about it? I’m nearly done, but it’s been so painful to have to keep telling my supervisors, “Nope, not yet.” Yesterday that conversation happened again and I know that most of the situation is not in my control but it feels awful.

    Several years ago I took a very deadline-oriented job that turned out to be more like the work of two or even three people. Projects stacked up and stacked up. I realized after about a year that working through evenings, weekends and holidays wouldn’t solve the problem and was burning me out. I still work a bit longer than my coworkers but that’s it. I’ve done a very good job of informing my supervisors about the situation, I’m a great advocate, and change is coming in the form of another full-time position that I’ll supervise. I even got a cash staff award.

    But I have one signature project, which is very public, that has just lagged and lagged and lagged. It was awful this year. Every aspect of it had problems, my leadership also did things to complicate it (and piled on new projects too), other work was still coming in, and I got really depressed and anxious for a while and although I did keep my work moving, I didn’t work as much on this project. We also had staff turnover and a close relative died after a short illness that required many trips out of town.

    I got pressure yesterday again about this project, which is now actually quite close to being done thank goodness, and it was just so embarrassing. I’ve had to steadfastly say, “I’m sorry, I’m doing my best, here are some reasons it’s taking longer, the lack of control over my workflow really makes this hard,” etc. I’ve worked on deadline my whole career and this isn’t like me and makes me feel like it’s my fault, and very ashamed. At least this time I could honestly say it’s really close but previously when asked about the delivery date I would just look them in the eye and say, “I honestly don’t know, I’m doing my best.” Oooh, it’s so awful to do that, especially in a team meeting.

    If anyone else has been through this kind of thing, I’d love to feel like it’s not just me (although I’m sorry you too had this experience!).

    1. writelhd*

      I go through similar feelings often and it’s not just you. I don’t have one huge huge huge project, but lots of small to fairly big-sized ones, a job that is huge in scope and the freedom to pursue the directions I want at my choosing, but without any reports or really any guidance but my own. This is sometimes amazing and sometimes insanely anxiety-making. I regularly get pulled by circumstance in directions I wish I weren’t and thus can’t finish stuff and feel crap about it.

      1. My Cat Posted This For Me*

        “a job that is huge in scope and the freedom to pursue the directions I want at my choosing, but without any reports or really any guidance but my own”

        Oh you put your finger on it. Me too. And that makes me feel like it’s my fault, because I’m the one that made the choices day to day about how to prioritize, so I must have chosen wrong. Yet there’s no real right choice since there’s no choice that makes the workload achievable.

        1. Chaordic One*

          I’m sure that you are doing the best you can. Even though you try to make the best decision you can in making priorities, it is always something of a gamble. And furthermore, sometimes there really are no good choices.

    2. Crylo Ren*

      No real advice, just commiseration. In the same boat as you. There’s a project on my plate that has been there…almost since I started here around a year ago. For various reasons (other projects, having to depend on incompetent colleagues, but also just…the platform we’re using not actually being capable of what it was sold to us as), the project has stalled out. I made some good progress on it late last year, but it’s getting to the point where even that short progress will be obsolete by the time we can get back into it.

      Luckily, I have a very understanding boss, but this is certainly been my albatross around my neck for a while, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of nothing getting done –> I resent the project for dragging on –> I’m not motivated to keep working on the project –> nothing gets done.

      Hang in there.

      1. My Cat Posted This For Me*

        Oh gosh that sounds very familiar. Albatross is a great way to put it. Thanks for sharing. It really does make me feel better and helps a bit with the shame and self-blame!

  37. Afiendishthingy*

    I spent about an hour yesterday writing up documentation on my lying, manipulative, toxic coworker; describing the many times she has tried to manage me or interfere with my work (we are peers), the occasions I’ve spoken to leadership about her, and the effects her behavior has had on our department and the departments we work with (she has alienated many, many people at our organization). I have three more weeks in this contract (I’ve been covering a maternity leave). Toxic coworker isn’t working the rest of the summer.

    Now I just have to give my write up to the higher ups…

  38. Unreal*

    I’m feeling majorly meh about my job prospects. I left a job more than 6 months ago for my health really and this turned out to be an ok move as recently I learnt the entire dept has been made redundant – so I’d be in this position anyway just with more work history but no health and probably miserable. I’ve also got some random temp work coming in but I recently finished up a short contract which I thought was getting extended and wasn’t at short notice- as in I learnt that week it was ending. It’s only been like a week since this happened but I feel completely demotivated like I don’t know what sort of jobs to go for now. I’m not feeling very hopeful, like I don’t know what to go for. I was being picky about the temp jobs I say I’m interested in as you have to interview for them and I went to like 6 interviews before for jobs I had no interest in and didn’t get anyway. I’m not sure what I’m asking… I guess whether I should stop being picky? I was going to have standards this time around, all my other jobs have been random and just what I could get rather than what I wanted. I was hoping to change that this time around but I’m not sure I can- or it’s probably a lot longer road ahead. I could do with some motivation or an idea on how to figure out some direction. Thanx

    1. Jolie*

      Ouffff it gets better. We’ve all been there.

      Thinking about my own journey – since I finished my Master’s degree 5 years ago, I went from [an unpaid internship + ratty student job doing opinion polls on the street] to [the most dysfunctional corporate job ever] to [a mishmash of unstable, but relatively interesting freelance gigs] to [the much more interesting, but shaky start-up with all the sink or swim experience] to [a good job, but part-time and fixed term] to [two good part-time jobs] to [pretty much my dream job, at this point in my life at least] – and independently running my own project on the side may or may not come next.

      Ultimately, what do you want to do? Once you know that, think about the steps you would take to get there. What kind of skills or experience you would you need, and how you can get them.

      You might need, for example, to take a temp job you’re not particularly interested in, just to pay the bills, for, let’s say, four days a week, and then reserves six hours /week for volunteering /training in a field relevant to you and six for job-hunting. This may sound gruelling, but it’s SO WORTH IT. The key is to always know you are doing something to further your goals.

      1. Unreal*

        You’re totally right. Problem is I feel I’ve put my life on hold for my non-existant career and an interest that isn’t really going anywhere. So that adds another level to my uncertainty/self-doubting. I think maybe this week was just a wash-out and next week I start again with more focus. And go back to basics, you’re right I started out this wanting a job that was semi-challenging, so I don’t want to saw my own face off, where I was treated decently/with respect and where there was the possibility of progress. But I also wanted maybe a four day a week job that would allow me to take that fifth day to work on my writing. So I guess it’s between a full-time job that challenges me and goes somewhere and an almost part-time job that’s sort of challenging and allows me to work on my own projects. Annoyingly while I was at the temp job there were loads of jobs being advertised that didn’t quite fit the particular thing I was looking for at the time and I guess I thought I was sticking around there longer and they said there was likely going to be jobs coming up, so I didn’t think about it. I guess maybe reality’s hitting now I’m back where I started.

  39. Kelsi*

    I really enjoy my job overall, but I’ve been feeling super burned out lately. Today’s my last day before a weeklong beach vacation, and I’ll have another week off to go to DragonCon in Atlanta at the end of next month.

    Here’s hoping that the time off helps, but does anyone else have tips for dealing with burnout? I’m not sure what’s causing it–I don’t have a high-stress schedule, the workload isn’t unmanageable, and I actually got a promotion at the beginning of the year that let me move to focusing on the projects and type of work that I’m most interested in.

    1. HMM*

      Take the time off and see how you feel about it – if you come back refreshed, then great! That’s likely the antidote; schedule time off more regularly to prevent getting to the point of burnout.

      If that doesn’t help, then I’d go through the process of elimination to see what else could be causing it. A particularly difficult coworker that drains you more often than not? Are you a bit bored? (It doesn’t have to be of the work, but maybe just mix up your schedule or routine?) Is it actually that non-work things are weighing on you and work is just a red herring? Maybe your role in particular isn’t high-stress, but other things are going on at your org that could be causing stress anyway?

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Hi DragonCon-er! I’m not going this year – some of the craziness last year made me want to opt out while they sort out their growing pains. But have fun for me :)

    4. Iamverybusy*

      Could be your general health/sleep? Iron, vitamin D or B deficincies can all make things that came super east to you before, seem harder. If after the week’s beach vacay you don’t feel better, get a check up with a doctor and get a blood test to rule out any deficiencies.

    5. Fiddlesticks*

      I can only speak from my personal experience, but even though I, too, really enjoy my job overall, it’s still a grind. And because I like my job, I think I invest a lot of energy into making sure I do it well — when I hated my last job, I actually felt less stressed because I didn’t really care too much about the outcomes. The burnout — especially with work we like — can be really intense, I find.

      My best tip on managing that is to make sure you’re taking the right KIND of time off. I used to take one or two days off to try and recalibrate myself or rest up, and they did nothing for me. And I realized it was because I tend to use time like that to do other real life errands. And if I’m in my house, I can still feel guilty about not doing my laundry or batch cooking for the week or whatever — it’s all still there. Recently, I’ve been planning trips away from home for brief vacations, where it’s super low key, and where honestly I can wander around for a while in a cool city and then sit in my hotel room and eat junk food and watch bad TV and not feel bad about it or anything else.

      Best of luck! I hope you feel better!

    6. nym*

      I’ll be at dragoncon all weekend! We should have an AAM meetup. And to keep this work-related, we could talk about best management practices we see in con organization. I hope the time off will help with your burnout – I know it always does for me, because of the don’t-even-think-about-work mindset that the whirlwind of con forces on me. I go back and it’s like I’ve been out for a month, not just a long weekend, because it was such a busy long weekend.

  40. Kat Em*

    Advice for someone whose boss can’t give you any ways in which you could improve?

    We have quarterly check-ins to talk about how things are going, performance, etc, and I always ask for ways I can get better, and I just get a “nothing at all, you’re fantastic.” I don’t have a college degree and came into this position based on skills/connections alone, but it means I’m not really as qualified to take my abilities to larger, better-paying organizations, which tend to toss any resumes without at least a BA due to … reasons.

    It feels good to be appreciated and I adore my boss, who is beautifully sane and reasonable, but I know there have got to be ways I can challenge myself to improve as well. I do freelance on the side already. Any pointers?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Is there a clear path for you to move up within the organization? Or is there a next level that you aspire to? If so, perhaps asking specifically “what steps should I take to achieve X”.

      1. Kat Em*

        Not really. Outside of my team’s supervisor’s job, everything else in our (small) business is pretty far outside of my realm of experience unless I got a ton more training in brand-new skills. And people are happy and stable where they are. There’s not really a culture of moving up at all.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Are you content to stay there indefinitely? Or are you itching for something new? If so, I’d say focus on self improvement for that sake rather than worry about getting feedback from your boss.

          1. Kat Em*

            Not forever, but probably for a good while. I guess I’m floundering as far as knowing how to improve on my own too, aside from picking up additional skills.

    2. HMM*

      It’s crappy and you shouldn’t have to but… if you’re doing well at your job and can do it on auto-pilot, so to speak, can you go to school part time or nights/weekends and get your BA? Perhaps even pitch it to your manager and see if the company can subsidize part of the tuition for professional development’s sake. Only think about it if you care about moving up/moving on, of course, but if you do want to progress and you’re in a field or location that places a high value on that… you might just have to bite the bullet and do it.

      Otherwise, can you offer to help other teams when you have down time and learn their work on the job?

      Overall I think attitudes toward this is changing, especially if you’re in large, metropolitan cities, but unfortunately some other locations/industries are slow to get on board.

      1. Kat Em*

        that would be really good advice in a normal office type setting! I actually don’t have benefits or down time, as I’m a remote worker in a rural area and only paid for time spent working on actual billable projects. I’d eventually like to finish a degree, but right now it’s not in the budget.

        1. HMM*

          Ooh, yes, that is tough and changes the advice. The only other things I could think of is trying to foster a relationship with a different mentor (not your manager) who might be able to give you more feedback on this sort of stuff. Networking your way into a different job may be the way to go here, though I know in rural areas that can be difficult. Might have to turn to online communities for networking (and perhaps looking into remote work?). Finally, also making sure your resume and cover letter are REALLY strong to overcome the lack of formal education. Good luck! You sound like a really conscientious worker and companies are missing out on that!

    3. Admin of Sys*

      Do you want to get a degree, and if so, does the company offer tuition help / reimbursement? If so, you could present your own personal interest in coursework that’s applicable to your job and see if your boss will go for it. Professional development doesn’t have to be limited to repairing gaps in your skill set vs your existing duties.
      If you don’t want to try for a degree, you can still look for classes on skills you want to develop – your current job duties may not need them but that doesn’t mean your roll couldn’t evolve to include it once you have the skills.

      1. Kat Em*

        I would like to get one eventually! Right now finances don’t allow (still paying off the spouse’s student loans) and my company doesn’t offer any benefits, but it’s worth thinking about adding to my skills. I’m slowly working through my Google Analytics training at the moment, which isn’t *quite* directly related to my current role, but definitely pertinent overall. I’ll definitely think about branching out more in other ways.

  41. Jolie*

    Got any tips from transitioning from working primarily in an office to doing the same work primarily from home?

    I’m working as a data analyst /policy researcher for a small nonprofit. My boss is generally very chill with flexible /remote working a long as Stuff Gets Done, and I occasionally do work from home (average once or twice a week).

    My partner accepted a dream offer on the other side of our country (think :2-3 hours by train or flight, 4-5 by coach, reliable transport da and night). My boss and our board of trustees agreed to let me keep my job and work primarily remotely, with the expectation I’d come into the office only when needed (our realistic expectation is every 3 weeks or so).

    We generally have great communication and I am doing well with working from home. My main concern is : with my boss and co-workers, we do have the kind of dynamic where we pop by each other’s desks as needed just to brainstorm /bounce ideas off each other, and I’m trying to think what the best way of maintaining it would be, when I’m not physically in office.

    1. Red Reader*

      Have some kind of office messaging – for my fully remote team we use Jabber, but Slack or Skype might also do for you (I’m not super familiar with either).

      2. BF50*

        Agreed.
        We use jabber, too, but I’ve previously used yahoo messenger which is free and works fairly well, if you can avoid downloading a bunch of viruses when you download the app.

        Whatsap is just a phone app, right? The nice think about Jabber is that I can send screen grabs or even share my screen with remote coworkers so that they can see exactly what I’m talking about if I have a question that needs a visual.

        1. Wheezy Weasel*

          There is a desktop version of WhatsApp in addition to the phone version. It’s great when I’m heads-down at my desk and have my phone on silent.

    2. Red Reader*

      Can you maybe do a week or two fully remotely starting now, before you move, and see where the pain points are for both you and your team? Identify the actual problems and then start working on solutions?

    3. Admin of Sys*

      Slack or other chat channels, and a regular check in – a webex once a week or something, The chatting is especially good if folks are okay with being intermittently interrupted by a digital system rather than an in person ping.

  42. Amber Rose*

    OK. I know that lunch with your boss is something that a lot of people do and it’s normal and all that, but does anyone else find it crushingly uncomfortable? It’s not like I don’t like my boss, but I have no idea how to carry a lunch conversation with coworkers, let alone the person I report to directly. Also I don’t have a very broad knowledge of food, and every time we end up at like, a Vietnamese place, I feel like a loser for basically having to ask “what is any of this?”

    I think that out of nervousness I start oversharing in conversations too, although I try to keep it to a minimum, but I’m also not really that private of a person so I already have a hard time knowing where the line is. It’s so stressful.

    1. gecko*

      I eat lunch with my boss a lot–but never just the two of us. See if you can get more people along for the ride?

      Also find a couple things you can talk to death. Might take some trial and error, but a show you both watch, or your kids, or any hobby…

      1. Amber Rose*

        It’s never just the two of us, but it is usually just one other person and still full of awkward silences. The other people we invite often have other plans.

        Unfortunately, I have zero things in common with her. I don’t have kids, I almost never watch TV (no, not even GoT or Stranger Things, no matter how many people bug me about it I’m not interested), and in an office full of people who barely have the attention span to read the news, I spend almost all my free time reading.

        1. gecko*

          Arrgh. There’s no help for it, then, other than spinning it as varsity-level practice in making small-talk. Which is…a crappy spin, since that sucks.

        2. Natalie*

          Can you ask her about her interests? You don’t have to have kids or pets to listen to anecdotes about hers. It might be boring, but maybe slightly less awkward.

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      Ask questions — get other people talking about themselves. Have some ready — “I was wondering, how did you get started in this business?” “What’s your favorite part of your job?” Listen to the answer, ask follow up questions. If you want to keep it less work focused “What’s your favorite place you’ve visited?” “What’s the best meal you’ve ever had”?

      1. Amber Rose*

        Hmm, that’s true, I could do that. Just gotta come up with some decent questions. Asking about her last trip resulted in a gory story of how she lost all her toenails.

    3. WellRed*

      Do you ever know the name of the place you will be eating at in advance? If so, look up their menu online and then look up what you don’t know.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Nope. I usually just get “hey, we’re going out, wanna come with?” and so my advance notice of anything is zero.

        1. Becky*

          Are they generally in a limited geographic area? If so, could you familiarize yourself with what restaurants are close by and some of the items on the menu that you would be comfortable in each. This of course is only possible if there is not an overwhelming number of options in your area.

        2. Rey*

          It seems like this is pretty casual, so if you feel like you’re not enjoying it, you shouldn’t feel obligated to participate every single time. I think it would be okay if you had a mental reminder to accept once per month (or whatever you think you could handle), and be prepared with an answer for the times when you don’t want to go (Oh, I packed lunch today, I joined a book club and have to catch up during lunch, I am going to run errands, I have to call my mom, etc.)

    4. Anna Canuck*

      Have a mental list of neutral conversation topics:
      Vacation/travel plans/weekend plans
      Read anything interesting lately?
      Weirdest job you’ve ever had.
      What do you do for fun?
      Have you ever met anyone famous?
      Where’s your hometown? How did you end up here?

      If you’re open to eating whatever, when you’re in over your head on a menu ask either your boss or the waiter “What would you recommend I try? I hardly ever eat food like this.” and then just go with it. I’m a fairly adventurous eater with no allergies, so I’m game for anything people tell me is good (plus if you look like a rookie, the wait staff will give you something not TOO weird).

    5. Office Foodie*

      Have you considered watching food videos on YouTube to help feel less naive about different kinds of food? I like the series “Stop Eating It Wrong” on the Zagat channel, and watching videos from some travel bloggers to find out about different kinds of foods from cultures I’m not familiar with. If you know the kinds of places that are around your area, it could help to occasionally watch something about Vietnamese food or Ethiopian food or Korean food or Scandinavian food or whatnot so you don’t get there and realize that nothing on the menu looks like a word you’ve even seen before. If you feel a little less awkward about the food, you might find you feel a little less awkward in general.

    6. Cat Herder*

      There’s nothing wrong with asking about the food. In fact, that’s a great way to start a conversation. “I don’t know much about Vietnamese food” or better, “I’ve never had Vietnamese food! What do you recommend for a newbie to order?” Then you can ask what they like about Vietnamese food, how did they get into eating it, have they been to Vietnam, what other kinds of food they like, etc. Not all at once in s list like this lol, but those are some questions to start the conversation or to goose it. Foodies generally love sharing their food finds and food knowledge!

  43. gecko*

    I’ve been a little hyped up at work lately. I’m planning to ask that a substantial raise be included in my annual review, which is at the end of August; I’m going to talk to my boss at the beginning of August even though I know it’s early. But now I have all the plans in place and I feel like I’ve got to wait!

    I’m also worried that my boss is spending all his political capital on sponsorship for a coworker who does no work. Feels petty but it’s worrying me, especially since if I don’t get a raise up to market value for my job I’m out, and I do like this place.

    Any advice on how to be patient for another couple weeks, or if I even have to be patient? And tips on asking for a fairly large raise?

    1. BRR*

      There are a few great AAM articles on asking for a raise if you haven’t read through them yet. When I asked for my raise, I ended up writing out a script and practiced it a lot. I also had the script with me when I asked for the raise. I also found it helpful to have salary references handy, something you can point to. My manager needed this to present her case for my raise.

      Other than that I think you just need to wait for your review so you can point to it and then ask for the raise. Good luck!

    2. CAA*

      Does your company do reviews on a rolling schedule, or all at once? If reviews and raises for everyone happen at the end of August, then you should talk to your boss now about your expectations. Budget planning usually goes on for several months before reviews actually happen and your raise is already decided and approved several weeks before the meeting, so you need to get ahead of that entire process. If it’s a rolling schedule where everyone gets reviewed around their employment anniversary, then you could still talk to him now, but it’s o.k. to wait as well.

      1. gecko*

        Thanks! And yeah, it’s rolling. I really don’t want to jump the gun, but I also want to get it over with since I’m not certain how it’ll go.

  44. Pollygrammer*

    I have nothing to do. Literally nothing. Without secured a email I can’t access anything, and nobody knows for sure when it’ll get done, because I am pretty much the lowest priority there is. Even surfing the internet isn’t always possible, because I have to use the unreliable wifi–because I can’t be wired in without email access. I filed stuff for about 20 minutes, and that is my work for the day. It’s been almost a month. (And yes, this is a government-adjacent job. And yes, everybody’s attitude is that this situation is pretty normal.)

    Any advice on not going crazy? Or feeling really resentful, because I could be doing the exact same nothing at home and not have to get dressed and spent $10 a day on public transit?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Ebooks? Podcasts?

      I feel your frustration though. My workload is still very low and I hate not being busier.

      1. Pollygrammer*

        I’m unfortunately out in a common area, using (that is, “using”) a borrowed laptop. So I can’t make it too obvious that I’m doing no work because it’s bad optics to people outside the immediate team. I think it’s a position that’s mostly seat-filler at the best of times–it’s probably never going to be enough work for a full-time job, but they don’t want to eliminate the position because if they lose it in the budget it’ll be hard to get it back if they ever do need it.

        2. Emily S.*

          That is tough. I’d been thinking, maybe you could print out some interesting articles (whether or not they’re tangentially related to your work), to have print reading material. Or find training manuals to read, if you’d like to learn about something. But it’s not clear if that would be feasible.

          At home, I enjoy reading through tons of library books, but for me that kind of personal reading at work would never fly. And I’m guessing, with the “optics” issue in your open work area, that would be a no-go for you also.

          Sorry I don’t have more useful advice.

        3. Courageous cat*

          If no one’s directly watching your screen, download books and read them on the laptop. It kinda looks like you’re doing work.

          1. Kaitlin Sully*

            I do this all the time. I have the Kindle app on my computer and read books in between calls (we have an auto dialer so I just keep the headset to my ear and wait for someone to pick up).

    2. Amber Rose*

      My understanding is that your situation is, in fact, extremely normal and may continue for a long time. Can you bring books in to read? Learn how to fold origami? Lego sculptures? Write steamy fanfics? Sing “I am slowly going crazy” until the words have no meaning?

      Just kidding about most of that. But books may be your best option for now, if possible.

      1. Blue*

        During slow periods at my last office, the entry-level folks would have literally nothing to do for DAYS. One of those coworkers used the kindle cloud reader and read books on her computer. Since she was still at her computer and not obviously distracted by a movie or whatever, it was fairly inconspicuous to randoms walking by.

    3. enginerd*

      Spend your time trying to better yourself? Learn new skills you can at your desk/work place while you have the online access or download pdfs/whatever if you can? I agree with the other commenter, ebooks/podcasts? Just trying to learn new things? Not having enough work sucks, I’m sorry

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        This! If you are trying to learn about something career related I think it could help. Even if it’s something you won’t need until later. Plus it won’t “appear” to be goofing off.

        1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

          +1. Not months on end, but my first 2 months in one role. I downloaded and read all kinds of emotional intelligence, project management, time management, and technical (but interesting to me) articles tangential to my role. I did market research. I learned how to do product maps. You can even learn to do online coding or sharepoint management etc… Look up (maybe not when visible) job listings for the next kind of job you’d like to have, and what skills they require? You can get a long ways with free classes. And look at industry networking groups, and volunteer. They are ALWAYS hungry for volunteers. Anything you can do with a spreadsheet, and a phone, for example.

    4. Anna Canuck*

      Write a novel?
      Reading something sort of work related is probably your best bet. I’d offer anyone that seems to have an opinion on that to help them do ANYTHING. And if you can’t, back to reading.

    5. Admin of Sys*

      Since it sounds like internet as a whole is complicated, which rules out things like lynda classes, could your office (or you personally) spring for a book at least vaguely in your job topic? Then treat it as study time – it’s old school, but take notes, highlight the book, etc. You’re still ‘working’ because you’re doing useful things for your job, ie gaining skill, and it keeps you occupied. Or if your job doesn’t really have anything that works for, pick up random skills there are books for that can at least be justified as the above. (maybe not a book on how to write sonnets, but if you’ve always wanted to learn accounting, or writing in general, or a language skill, this would be the time)

    6. LilySparrow*

      Would it be inappropriate or wierd in your office culture to ask around if anyone else has offline/housekeeping work to do?

      Every office I’ve ever worked in had a backlog of gruntwork somewhere – stuff that isn’t crucial to immediate work product, but makes things easier or more efficient in the long run. File inventories, data entry, purging duplicates – the office equivalent of vacuuming the refrigerator coils.

      Even working on stuff on the computer that can be transferred by thumb drive?

      It’s not fun but it’s better than being bored.

    7. ballpitwitch*

      Same problem in my new job. I recommend reading books from Project Gutenberg. You can download PDFs to read offline. I read all the Sherlock Holmes books recently.

      I just make sure I am always looking at text – news articles, reddit threads, advice columns!

      I have a second interview on Monday with a job I really want. So sick of doing nothing!!!

    8. FaintlyMacabre*

      When I have had jobs with not much to do and no internet, I’d study a foreign language- write vocabulary on flash cards which can be discreet, and quiz myself. I’d memorize poems in the language.

    9. Jaid_Diah*

      I think most government agencies pay for public transit. Mine certainly does. Would yours?

  45. Jen*

    Any super petite (under 5′) women have recommendations for suits? I need to start wearing them more. I have a banana republic and talbots but the petite size still had to be tailored.

    Thanks!

    1. Hey-eh*

      Any suit off the rack is going to have to be tailored to fit properly. I would suggest finding somewhere that does made to measure suits and get one GOOD suit made to fit you properly. I find it’s easier to wear ‘mix and match’ suits – find dress pants that fit, and find a blazer that fits, and wear them together instead of trying to find an off the rack suit that fits.

      1. Murphy*

        I’m 5’0″ and I second this.

        I’ve also had good luck at Kohl’s with dress pants, but lately they have less petites in the physical store.

      2. Thlayli*

        I’m 5’2 so not quite as petite as you but I also have had great suits from Ann Taylor.

    3. Nanc*

      If you’re in a big city you might look into having one or two custom made. It’s not necessarily that expensive and the nice thing is you can ask for thinks like proper pockets, narrower lapels, etc. Admittedly I did this 25 or so years ago when I had to wear suits every day and as a 6′ tall woman it was hard to find something in a tall size that wasn’t cheap polyester. If you’re not in a big city, you still may be able to find a local tailor–they may just be backed up if they’re the only game in town.
      Good luck! [obligatory grumble about why men can buy clothing by waist, inseam, sleeve length and collar size with proper pockets and women are stuck with random numbers and letters to denote sizes and apparently we’re all the same darned height. You kids get off my lawn.]

    4. Putting Out Fires, Esq*

      4’ 10” lawyer, I’m partial to dress and skirt suits (it’s the 21st century, all the judges I work with are cool with women in pants, so that’s not what this is)- they still need to be hemmed, but I don’t feel as…stubby.

      Depends on what you need the suit for. If you’re a “one suit and that’s enough” go to a nice department store, pick out one of their house brand suits, and have them tailor it (for free!) I still have and wear (when I’m not 20 weeks pregnant) the one I got from Nordstrom’s and it honestly was not much more than any other.

      If you’re like me and wear suits a lot, Calvin Klein has nice petite suits that are interesting, and obviously the stores you already mentioned.

      I’ll be honest, unless I’m having a jury trial, I’m in a (machine washable!) blazer and pants/skirt/dress rather than a true suit. I’m in court and need a blazer every day, matching suits are several times a year but still not daily occasions. And as a woman, I feel like I can’t get away with wearing the same suit two days in a row during a trial.

      1. Putting Out Fires, Esq*

        Oh, and when you’re looking at hemmability. (That’s a word) Focus on the jacket. Those are a bear to alter, except maybe taking the sleeve up a bit. So if you find a jacket that hits you right (and I am almost 100% in petite jackets for them to be scaled correctly) the bottoms will sort themselves out. I have also let dresses and skirts go unhemmed. So they hit at or just below the knee? When you sit down, you don’t have to worry about thigh showing and with a pair of heels, you look stylish but not inappropriate.

      2. Jen*

        At work the men who are becoming my peers all wear suits almost every day. I do prefer a dress and blazer, which I think is fine. And I think I get a little more leeway because there are few women at my level.

        But I need at least a few suits as daily drivers.

    5. Middle School Teacher*

      There’s a store in Canada called Laura that also has a petites department (Laura Petites). Are you in the US? I don’t know if they exist there, but if not, you could check them out online.

    6. Biscuits*

      I’m roughly 5’ and have a small frame, so I’d be lying if I said I haven’t occasionally nabbed a few pieces from the kids section – I like the A. Buyer line from Kohl’s, and got a few pairs of Cat & Jack boys khakis at Target, and some jeans for weekends from Justice. Some pieces draw a little too much attention to my backside to be professional, but I rarely have to hem the pants if they fit everywhere else. Bonus point for being cheaper, too.

    7. Maya Elena*

      White House Black Market has a petite line.
      Go to Macy’s and try various brands like Anne Klein, Le Suit, Tahari, Calvin Klein. One, and probably only one, will likely match your particular degree of short-waistedness. Tahari has been my particular one. Ann Taylor used to be, but they’ve redone their cuts and don’t fit me anymore.

      1. Rey*

        Once you find one in the physical store that fits the way you want, go on their website and see if you can find another color/pattern in the same thing (or just buy 3 of the same in black)

  46. Mariella*

    I am panicking because i have annual leave booked next week. My manager has been here almost a year and ive never been off for a significant amount of time since she has started.

    I have been here the longest in my team and its stressing me out because she manager has made several overtures about her reliance on me and how she panics without me. Ie Monday i had an important appointment so i took a half day, and it went a bit longer than i expected, so i called and let her know i was running late by 30 mins. She then asked if i could leave early, please note i rarely take time off, this was a very important meeting and very much non reschedule type thing. She also asked uf u cancel 1 or 2 days of annual leave to come in next week.

    I did say maybe 1 morning i could do, but i think my manager is going to work herself into a stress (has broken down at work before) or not do any of the work required for our deadline the week after and leave it all for me to deal with.

    She hates me taking time off and feeling super guilted into coming in for a bit, i was tempted but also feel like they shouldnt put so much pressure on me to. Its her first managing job so unsure if this is part of it?

    Also a few weeks ago i mentioned my co worker was filing her nails at her desk, this week i saw my manager doing the same thing.

    1. Red Reader*

      No. Nooooooo. Don’t cave. She’d have to muddle along if you got hit by a bus won the lottery and left. She can manage two or three days. And if she can’t, that’s a bigger problem that you can’t solve for her.

    2. ExcelJedi*

      This is not normal.

      It sounds like your manager needs to sink or learn to swim, if a year into her tenure she can’t handle a day without one of her staffers (never mind a week). What if you were out of town and completely unavailable for your leave? What if you were travelling abroad or were in the wilderness? She needs to be able to manage you having a life.

      1. enginerd*

        Yes, this! Don’t cave!!! Your job is putting an unreasonable and unfair amount of pressure on you. If they can barely survive without you for a half day, something is very wrong on their end. If you have the rapport with your boss, you should address those concerns (I think Alison has answered similar letters about stuff like this). Good luck!

      2. Pollygrammer*

        All of this. You’re entitled to your time off and she’s an effing grownup.

        There’s no excuse for how she’s behaving. No matter how vital she thinks you are, you aren’t there pumping the oxygen and keeping the monsters at bay.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Don’t cave. Your leave has been approved, so take it.

      As for the nail filing, a quick file for a hangnail or a break shouldn’t be an issue, so I don’t think that’s something to bring up, if that’s what you were planning to do. Asking you to cut your leave short is a much bigger deal.

      1. Mariella*

        I think the nail filing annoys me because its more like 10 mins and my colleague has turned it into toe nail painting on occasion… while whinging about how busy she always is..

    4. Sunflower*

      Your manager is evil and this isn’t normal. Don’t cave. You are probably covering her butt more than you realize. Maybe being OOO will force her to have to reach outside of her usual circle for help and can alert her manager or others that she is struggling. I understand your hands are tied on this but her manager really needs to see how much she is relying on you to get her work done.

      1. June*

        I agree with Sunflower – you are probably covering her butt more than she lets on. Here’s my story how I find out I was covering my boss’s behind (big time!) – Let’s say I use to work for a day care doing front office stuff. My boss (daycare manager) would leave at 3:30 PM after day care got out. I stayed to 4:15 PM (that was my normal end time). However if a child’s parent/guardian was not at the bus stop waiting for their child, the bus would bring the child back to the daycare. I would watch the child until I could get ahold of the parent/guardian. It was never anything bad (dr appt ran too long, traffic delays, flat tire, etc.). At first, I didn’t mind doing as I was “promised” comp time. However, I never, ever was able to use my comp time. My boss would always have a reason why I needed to be there. And comp time wasn’t allowed for sick days, dr appts, etc. (according to her). So I started reporting time after 4:15 PM as over-time on my time card. After the district office finance guru saw that I was being paid overtime consistently (about twice a week for the previous month), she hit the roof! When she asked me why I was staying late with a child, I said who else would?! She informed me that it was the daycare manager’s responsibility to stay until 4:30 PM every day in case a child came back on the bus. Once I informed her that 1. I didn’t know that and no one had said anything and 2. I had enough comp time to take a whole week off (I had been doing this for a few months), she came unglued. I could tell she wasn’t mad at me.
        Next day, my boss calls me into her office to tell me that I am no longer allowed to take overtime and would need to leave promptly at 4:15 PM. She said this with a scowl on her face. I was happy as I hated how often I had to change family plans at the last minute because I never knew when a child would need to come back to the daycare.
        My boss never did forgive me and was more of a jerk than before but I was ok, I had already been accepted to college and was on my way out. Later on, I found out she had done that to the previous office worker (the one I had replaced) which made me wonder how much comp time did the daycare manager owe her when she left? I never was able to take my comp time as the district office didn’t not recognize comp time. The union said it would be hard to prove I had stayed late without a written statement from the parent/guardian of the child I had watched (I didn’t want to bother the parent/guardian so I consider the time a hard lesson learned). One more thing I found out is I was not authorized to watch the child as I was the only one in the building, not bonded, and not on the district’s insurance! Only the daycare manager was authorized and insured. So the daycare manager’s actions put the daycare and district office at risk.
        So morale of the story – stop covering your boss as you might not be authorized and the company has liability insurance, you don’t.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          I’m surprised they didn’t just fire the manager for leaving the company open to serious legal liability.

    5. Susan K*

      Your manager is being really unreasonable. Your manager and team can survive without you for a week, and if they can’t, that’s a problem that needs to be fixed. She can’t expect you never to take a whole week off.

      Have you put measures in place to cover for your responsibilities when you’re gone? If so, can you document those measures for your manager to reassure her that everything will get done in your absence? E.g., Fergus is covering your budget meeting, Lucinda will do the weekly TPS report, you will complete the monthly rundown early and fax it to the distribution list on your last day before you leave, and any questions about handles or spouts can be directed to Jane or Wakeen.

      Don’t let her guilt you into coming in. You made plans for your time off and you’re not available that week. As a bonus, maybe when she sees that you were gone for a week and the world didn’t end, she will be less panicked when you take time off in the future.

      1. Mariella*

        This is very good advice. Half the things i do aren’t necessary to be completed then (weekly/bi weekly tasks). Daily tasks the majority of them would have to be covered by her and she has never had to do them before. I have provided training in full for these tasks, i think perhaps this is what is worrying her.

    6. DaniCalifornia*

      Echoing the other comments. Don’t cave. You need rest and to be able to recharge.

      Leaver her documentation of anything that is coming up while you’re gone or could come. Leave it with your coworkers. And then don’t answer your phone. Or if you do don’t answer it every time. You could just respond ‘I left documentation’. It’s not your fault or your problem to fix if your manager isn’t prepared.

    7. Free Meerkats*

      Not only take your leave, but tell your manager that you will be in no signal land the entire time. Then feel free to set up a rule to send all her calls, emails, texts, FB posts, etc to the waiting room and ignore the hell out of them.

    8. Mariella*

      I think ill stick with ignoring it and enjoying my annual leave! Ill worry about it when i come back..

      Thanks for all the advice, its good to know im not being unreasonable!

    9. 2horseygirls*

      Repeat after me: I do not need to sacrifice my well-being because of the expectations of others.

  47. Persimmons*

    Pay-to-play casual Friday makes me cranky. “You have to look PROFESSIONAL…unless you give us $25 a week for the wasteful glamour charity du jour.”

    3. aett*

      I used to have a desk job in the military. There was this one day when they were doing the same kind of thing: pay for a “casual day” and the proceeds all went to a good cause. I thought it sounded fun, so I donated the money.

      On the casual day, one of the higher-ups in my office looked at me like I was insane, and asked me (and my supervisor) what was going on. I explained the situation, and he said “If I had known, I would have paid to keep you in uniform.” Made me feel uncomfortable for the rest of the day.

        1. Bea*

          It’s military. Even if it was jeans and a nice shirt, I can see this conversation happening.

      2. Admin of Sys*

        Ouch. And obviously you want to wear what’s considered correct by the brass, but now I kind of want there to be bidding wars – you offer $25 to wear civvies, they bid $50 for uniform, and the charity ends up with more money.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      My first company was like that when I worked there. Then my second company was $5, then they went to always having jeans Fridays, but they got into big charity things where you had to make a certain United Way donation or something and you could wear jeans on Thursday or for a whole week or whatever. It’s too much to keep track of. I just wear jeans on Friday, and if it appears other people have paid for jeans that week, I might wear some of my more casual slacks.

      Incidentally, when the current CEO took over a couple years ago, my first employer went to jeans-all-the-time. Word on the street was the CEO was tired of all the time and energy going into the jeans days, etc., and if it was okay to wear them sometimes, then it was okay to wear them all the time.

    5. Catwoman*

      I have never heard of this sort of thing. What a gross idea! It reminds of my Catholic school days when we could ‘earn’ out-of-dress code days by selling a certain amount of fundraiser junk for the school. Inevitably, the rich kids always got the days…If the company wants to make a charitable donation, that’s lovely but don’t shake it out of your employees’ pockets.

    6. Blue Eagle*

      This would make me cranky too, but my approach would be to dress professionally and put the $25 in a separate bank account for myself. $25 x 50 = $1250 after a year, at which point I would splurge on something nice for myself (probably a trip).

  48. AspiringAdvocate*

    My boss’s boss is implementing an idea I suggested to him but didn’t mention anything about it to me. I’m not offended or anything, I’m just happy he thought the idea was good enough to use. Is it appropriate to say anything to him about how I’m happy I could help brainstorm for this project, and if he needs any help with it going forward I’d love to assist? I’m very entry-level and I don’t want to overstep.

    1. Ali G*

      I think what you wrote is pretty good: “Hey Boss I saw that you implemented that idea you and I discussed – that’s pretty cool! If there is any way I can be of help, I’d love to work on it too – but I understand if that’s not possible.”

      1. Blue Eagle*

        I’d go one step farther and mention it as well to the boss’s boss – – – but that’s just me.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I hate to be Captain Bringdown, but I think you should mention it to your boss before going to the boss’ boss. First, if you’re really early-career or very new to this company, it might seem like you’re skipping the chain of command if you go right to volunteering to work on boss’ boss’s project.

      And second… how you phrase your offer to participate is key. If you know for a fact that the idea was yours originally, that’s great and your phrasing or Ali G’s would work. But I was immediately reminded of a situation where the senior mgr, a new employee, and I were having a conversation about Topic. New Employee was very enthusiastic and proposed Great Idea related to Topic. Senior mgr and I exchanged a look because, well, I had been working on Great Idea for about 5 years at that point but it was internal-secret, which meant very few people knew about it. And obviously we couldn’t tell New Employee that. So while New Employee did have the idea too, it didn’t originate with them (or with me, for that matter, as it had been around for a long time). That may be why you didn’t get credit or notified. That shouldn’t stop you from volunteering if you’re really interested! Just be aware that the idea may predate you and if so, definitely don’t indicate that you originated it.

  49. Flying Ghoti*

    I’m looking for some advice on how to reach out to a contact when applying for a job. This person is the head of the department in which the job is located, but I do not know if the position reports directly to him or not. I took a masters-level class taught by him about a year ago, and while he seemed to like my work and urged all of the students in the class to reach out if he could help us with our careers I have not had any contact with him since. I applied for the job through the official channels, but I was thinking of sending him an e-mail to let him know I applied and pass on my application materials directly. I’ve gotten as far as writing a brief e-mail explaining how we know each other and that I applied for the job, but I’m not quite sure how to end it. Should I say something like “any help you can give would be greatly appreciated”?

    1. Ali G*

      I wouldn’t ask directly for help – if he wants to/can help you he will. He knows why you are contacting him and that’s OK! You could say something like “Thanks for taking the time to read this email, and let me know if you think there is anything else I can be doing to further my job search. Have a great weekend!”

  50. Anony-mouse*

    A recruiter reached out to me last week, and while I’m not actively looking and I’m reasonably happy in my current role (I’ve been here for 2 years, it’s my second job out of uni), my annual review is coming up so I thought it would be a good opportunity to see what else is out there. The job would be the same work that I’m currently doing, but at a place within walking distance of my home, I would be in a different (more interesting) sector, I would only be working on the X research which I love instead of Y research which I’m much less interested in, I would likely have an associate to help me (right now I got a promotion but they didn’t hire anyone to fill the entry position so I’m still doing all the same work, just more of it), and all around.. I’m interested! The work environment would be much different, and I would hate to leave my really awesome team at my current job, but I think it checks off enough boxes that I’m pursuing the opportunity.

    Now – the BUT. We hired an intern at my company a year ago who was great on paper, great in the interview, and insufferable in real life. She spent all day talking, she was very unprofessional, she was inefficient, and her work quality was awful. I was her first point of contact (but not manager) and I sat next to her every day for four months. I wasn’t able to officially manage her but I tried my best to coach her and it just went over her head. In the end we didn’t hire her on full time, and we’ve always kind of wondered what happened to her. Well, I found out. She works for this company I want to work at! It’s a small enough company that I would have to work in somewhat close proximity to her, and there’s a chance that she could be my associate if I were to get the job.

    How do I handle this in the interview? Do I tell them when/if I get an offer that I would really prefer not to work with her? Do I say why? What if we end up sitting next to each other again? I honestly do not think I could handle it, enough so that I’m reconsidering whether I want to work for this company. Help!

    1. WellRed*

      You really can’t say anything, sorry. If you worked at the company and she was applying, then you could raise your experience working with her. Go to the interview.

    2. Holly*

      I definitely would not bring this up – what if they really like her/what if she improved? Also, you could end up working at a different company if you rule this out that also has a coworker you really don’t like. It’s part of the work world that you’re not going to like everyone you interact with. If you really think she was so bad that you’d reconsider working at this company, that’s a personal decision for you to make. You’re going to come off looking very odd and difficult bringing it up.

    3. Sam Foster*

      In addition to other’s comments: You don’t know if this person has grown or changed in her new role and even if she becomes your assistant you have to go in to the position with an open mind. If she is terrible if you begin working with her again, address it then.

  51. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    So, as people suggested, here is the horror story I mentioned the other day.
    Last Friday we were called to a meeting with the entire department. As our activities are so different from theirs, we’re excluded from all department activities (they don’t even know our names). So we were there dragging our feet.
    It was a nightmare. What started as a lets-know-each-other-better meeting soon became a 90-minutes pep-talk, with the director saying things like
    * “This is the best job you’ll ever have.”
    * “You’ll be so pumped up that you’ll do overtime without noticing.”
    * “You need to do your job with love, pour your soul with every task.”
    * “We’re giving you the chance to change the world.”

    The meeting room was filled with creative people – creative writers, graphic designers, social media… and us, a bunch of developers who were not thrilled at all to hear words like “love”, “empathy” and “soul” during a deparment meeting. One even said that he “needs a pay rise if a higher up wants him to do his job with love”. What’s worse, someone mentioned something like “temporary relocation” where they see fit. We’re determined to push back if they even try to spread out among the country.

    1. Nanc*

      As a writer I would have been rolling my eyes so hard I could see the back of my skull. I just wanna do my job well, be reasonably paid and leave work stuff at work when I go home. If in the process I change the world [for the better] great. Trust me, a lot of us on the creative side smell this bullshit just as much as the developer side.

      1. KayEss*

        Agreed, we graphic designers become cynics very, very quickly. And any social media manager knows empty bullshit when they see it. Love, empathy, and soul don’t pay the rent.

        1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

          I’ve been trying to visualize our three graphic designers’ response to this. My expectation is as follows:
          1. Look of Extreme Skepticism
          2. Significantly Raised Eyebrow
          3. Snort of Derision

    2. irene adler*

      “You’ll be so pumped up that you’ll do overtime without noticing.”

      Hope my paycheck will notice.

    5. London Calling*

      * “You need to do your job with love, pour your soul with every task.”

      Gak. That is AWFUL – and let’s not even start on it not even making sense. Should it be pour your soul out? It sounds like someone scrolled through Motivational Memes For Manager.

      On a side note, if you pour your soul with every task, aint gonna belong before the poor little sucker is drained dry unless pouree paces him/herself. Or do souls replenish themselves so there is an endless supply?

    6. The New Wanderer*

      If that list were in a job description, it covers every red flag that comes up on AAM. It screams “you will be overworked and underpaid and burned out in no time.”

  52. Dr. Johnny Fever*

    Still in the honeymoon phase of the new job, but it is lightyears different than my old culture. My manager gives me direct feedback, positive and constructive, my team is supportive, and I enjoy the work.

    Who knew one could be happy in their job?

    1. Curious Cat*

      Congratulations, that’s amzing! It’s always so refreshing to be in a workplace that you’re excited about!

    2. Windchime*

      You may have found a good one! I am waiting for the honeymoon phase of my job to be over and I’ve been here for almost 2 years, so it’s slowly starting to dawn on me that maybe this is just a really nice job with a great manager. Supportive, sane manager, coworkers who do not backbite or engage in nasty, destructive gossip, a comfortable desk in a cubicle with more natural light than I know what to do with. The work isn’t super challenging, but it keeps me busy and for now, I’m very content.

      I’m so glad that you are feeling happy at your job!

  53. There is a Life Outside the Library*

    Venting: I love my job but I am still new-ish. Part of my job is monitoring a shared inbox for troubleshooting. I’m at the stage where I feel pretty confident with most things…but there’s a small % of things that come in which we’ve never seen before, or not seen in that variation. So it’s going to take a while before I can respond super quickly to 100% of the questions we get in our shared inbox. My boss has been here for years and has lots of institutional knowledge, so she can usually answer questions much faster. The thing is, whenever something straightforward or “easy” comes in, my boss answers it in 10 seconds flat. But when something more difficult comes in, she doesn’t touch it and seems a little annoyed when we come to her for advice about it.

    Here’s the thing: I’ve been in her position before where I’m the senior person with all the institutional knowledge and experience. So maybe that’s causing me to view things this way. But in my opinion, she should be letting my coworker and I answer the easy, straightforward stuff…certainly tackle the more difficult stuff too, but maybe realize she needs to help there a bit? We never get the satisfaction of being able to deal with the stuff we know how to handle. I get the temptation to just deal with it, but I’m starting to get annoyed.

    1. Little Bean*

      It could be that she WANTS you to focus on the more difficult questions, because that’s how you’ll learn and get better at your job. When you come across a question that doesn’t have an obvious answer, do you do other things before asking your boss? If not, I’d be annoyed t0o. I’d want you to try to research it on your own as much as possible, perhaps even draft what you think the answer should be, and then just double-check if you’re right.

      1. There is a Life Outside the Library*

        I do focus on the difficult questions, and I often have to do research to answer them. Overall our department doesn’t have much documentation, though, and I’ve noticed that’s a factor. So I keep my own Trello board of information that I’ve gathered (neither coworker has been interested when I’ve shown it to them).

        I guess my problem here is that I used to be in her position, and I’m internally judging a bit? If I were her, I wouldn’t spend any of my busy day answering the easy stuff and I’d probably only stick my nose in if I absolutely had to, in the really difficult situations.

  54. Tau*

    OK, I think I mainly need reassurance that I have not humiliated myself forever and need to go into exile –

    I broke down at work this week to the point where I had to go home because I couldn’t stop crying. A new member of the management team (although not in my direct chain of command) was primary witness.

    Background: I’m dealing with some health issues that took a turn for the not unexpected but still pretty scary this week. Basically, steadily worsening anemia, to the point where on Wednesday morning I discovered I could no longer blow-dry my (short!) hair because I couldn’t hold the hairdryer up for long enough. The process feels a little as though my life force is being steadily drained away, and the appointment with a specialist to talk about my options is still a few weeks away. Somehow it all hit me at work and I kept tearing up; I really tried to push through and distract myself, especially because I’d taken the afternoon off and so only had to keep going until noon, but late morning it stopped working. I went to the bathroom to try to have an unobtrusive cry and was washing my face when the new member of management came in. She asked if I was OK, and, well… the whole thing just burst out of me, and then the waterworks started again. At that point, she told me (sympathetically) that I should go home. That was the low point for the week, but I ended up doing WFH yesterday and today just in case.

    Now that I’m feeling more emotionally stable I feel really embarrassed about this, because it’s really not the first impression I wanted to make and it feels like I overreacted (it’s not like what I have is life-threatening, and I wasn’t crying continuously on Tuesday evening when the horrifying health stuff was actually happening). My coworkers are generally great and everyone was super sympathetic so rationally I know they’re not likely to hold it against me, but part of me still wants the earth to swallow me up. I really want to be Epically Competent Software Dev Tau not Tau Who Is Dealing With Horrible Health Stuff And Had A Nervous Breakdown In The Office, particularly as pertaining to new members of management – someone reassure me I can still be that?

    1. Hey-eh*

      You’re fine! People are going to be more concerned that you’re doing okay than gossiping about how you cried in front of a new manager. Which, by the way, I hope your appointment with the specialist goes well and you get this sorted out! I’ve dealt with low iron but not to this extent, and I remember nearly passing out at the top of a flight of stairs – it’s so scary!

      1. Tau*

        Thank you! This is a very good point about what my coworkers are likely thinking. /o\ I think I mainly feel this embarrassed because I’m in a super male-dominated field, and I didn’t just burst into tears in the office but I did so because of a problem that’s *cough* gynecological in nature. Hooray for terrible stereotypes…

        And agreed, anemia can be super scary. The almost passing out thing has happened to me before, although thankfully not in this most recent bout – sympathies! I do hate stairs, too. Stairs are my nemesis right now.

    2. Kat The Russian (in France!)*

      I think that this isn’t something you need to worry about (I mean, the way you’ll be seen at the office, not the anemia, obvs).
      I’ve had this level of anemia, like, get-thee-to-a-hospital-for-an-iron-transfusion-right-now-level-of-anemia, so I sympathise. It is not fun, and it has a tendency to worsen your stress tolerance, so on top of being stressed about your health, you’re also less able to deal with said stress. Fun.
      I really hope your specialist appointment goes well, and I know how tired you must be, but I really hope you (or a friend) advocate for yourself , because there are ways of replenishing your iron levels, even just temporarily while looking for a better fix for your overall condition (hello iron transfusion, can literally not recommend it enough!)
      Don’t let it cloud your judgement about the work situation – I mean, loads of people cry at work! And they don’t disappear off the face of the Earth for ever and ever. I think if your work is reasonable they won’t make a bigger deal of it than it has to be, especially if you continue being Epically Competent Software Dev Tau or even Epically Competent Software Dev Tau That Sometimes Has Doctor’s Appointments. Go you! It’s gonna get better!

      1. Tau*

        Thanks! I definitely needed to hear that. And I definitely needed the kick to look into an iron transfusion, too – I’ve heard about them but there was procrastination on my side + some bad timing with my GP going on holiday and then, well, this happened. It’s good to have another data point going “yep, iron transfusions are awesome, get one ASAP.” (I am so tired of iron pills, although at least my doctor finally found a brand to prescribe me that don’t make my stomach attempt to commit suicide.)

        1. Windchime*

          I’ve dealt with this very problem when I was a teenager, and it did help me to always take iron with food; otherwise, it made me extremely sick. But the risk of fainting is very real, so please be very careful about that. I eventually fainted at work and ended up having to have blood transfusions (this was in the ’70’s), and then work was upset because I wasn’t coming immediately back to work.

          Please take care. I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s natural to feel fragile and upset, and I would think that some of it could be actually based on the anemia and isn’t an “emotional reaction” type of thing. It sounds like your coworker was very understanding and kind.

    3. CupcakeCounter*

      I did this a couple of weeks after my FIL passed away very suddenly. My MIL and husband were having a hard time dealing so I stepped in and took over logistics for a lot of the funeral and other arrangements. Helped them out a lot and let them have time together but kind of left me out of the grief loop. I bawled my way though a pizza dinner and the actual funeral so thought I was doing ok when I came back to work but a few days in a coworker asked how I was doing. I started with a standard answer and then just broke. Sat at my computer with tears running down my face for a few hours then went to my boss and told him what was up. He told me to go home and never even dinged me for the slightly more than half day I was gone.
      Baked about 300 cupcakes and felt much better.

      1. Tau*

        I’m really sorry about your FIL :( and am glad to hear your boss didn’t hold it against you! Also:

        Baked about 300 cupcakes and felt much better.

        I may have a new coping strategy.

    4. Not All Who Wander*

      I promise no one, including your manager will hold this against you! I broke down about 3 times yesterday and finally went home early (had gotten the final divorce paperwork the evening prior…and even though I’m actually relieved by the divorce and wouldn’t take him back for anything in the world, it still hit me like a ton of bricks). NO ONE is holding it against me…even the kinda-jerky guy was very understanding.

      There are very, very few adults who haven’t had something really hard in their lives or in the lives of someone close to them that overflowed at work at least briefly. In my small office alone, we’ve had health issues, family deaths, offspring doing incredibly stupid things, 3 divorces, etc. EVERYONE has sympathy for others…we’re all human!

    5. NW Mossy*

      You’re totally fine – worry not. Managers know that people are human, and those who’ve been doing it for more than about 10 minutes know that sometimes people cry and that’s normal. Hell, most of us have cried at work too! I’ve seen directs cry, I’ve seen my own boss cry, I’ve seen people I barely know cry. We all do it sometimes, and we’ll happily hand you the tissues and move on.

    6. LilySparrow*

      Listen, being that fatigued and drained will make you cry all by itself, just as a physical reaction, even if you had no worries.

      I’m glad the new manager was concerned, and no remotely reasonable person would think less of you for this.

  55. LQ*

    The Big Project I’ve been on for the last year is finally being killed today. (I’ve been advocating it get stopped for about 6 months.) We are going to move in a new and better direction, but it feels bad. It all feels really bad right now. And the other people on the project didn’t do anything wrong, it’s just an impossible project for the org to do at this point. It still feels really bad and I worry that they (1 especially, the one I most think we need to hang onto) will feel like she could have done something different or better and she couldn’t have. (And I feel like that A LOT but I’ve been sitting in this we are a failure for about 6 months now, so I’m more annoyed that it’s still going on than frustrated at me for not making it work.)

  56. Emelle*

    I found out yesterday that I lost out on a job interview because I don’t have my Skype account always logged on. I assumed they would email me first to set up a time, but they emailed yesterday to tell me they had attempted to Skype with me 3 times in the last week, and since I didn’t answer or return their call, they were going to move on, and I am welcome to reapply in six months. I have searched my inbox and spam folder, but this is the first communication I have from them. My gut is telling me that someone in their end dropped the ball and I shouldn’t have to be sitting by my computer at all times waiting on them to Skype. But. Is this normal? Do I need to treat Skype like I would a phone?

    1. Curious Cat*

      This definitely strikes me as something on their end. While I technically have a Skype account I don’t think I even have the application on my computer (or at least not an easy-to-get to shortcut). It’s a bit ridiculous to expect you to wait on Skype for a call you weren’t expecting and had no warning about!

    2. Flying Ghoti*

      I don’t think this is normal. It’s always been my experience that you set up a call time over e-mail or a regular phone call first.

    3. Little Bean*

      What? That is terrible. I never log onto Skype unless someone has specifically arranged a call with me in advance, and pretty much everyone I know is the same. I’ve been on a lot of hiring committees and it would never in a million years occur to us to use Skype as the only means of communication.

      I would email them back and explain that you don’t use Skype regularly, did not know they were trying to reach you and that you are still interested in the job. Hopefully it’s not too late!

    4. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

      Jeez, that is awful. I’m with the others, they should have reached out and set a time. Who actually sits in front of their computer all day long waiting for a Skype call? I guess I could see it if they put in their ad that they might call you on Skype anytime but still…..

      I think you can see if they tried to call just by logging into your Skype account (I think…..I see missed calls from my dad all the time but he is in my contacts list. I don’t know if it shows missed calls from folks not on your contacts list.)

    5. AMPG*

      This is definitely not normal. Even if they assumed you’d be waiting for their call, after the first failed attempt they should have emailed you. This is a bullet dodged.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Yep, their email clearly works, it was on them to contact you with a time frame. And then putting the blame on you? No thanks. No interview situation should ever require you to sit and wait an unknown amount of time with Skype active just in case. That just filters for who’s desperate enough to do something like that (who would then be desperate enough to take the low ball offer in the toxic workplace). I’d pass on the apply in 6 months option.

    6. selina kyle*

      No that’s very strange. I would assume they’d have set a time or (being generous here) a timeframe of like “within these two hours we will call you”. Skype’s not something most people are just logged into I would assume.

    8. Holly*

      Maybe I’m not in the right industry to understand this (lawyer here) but Skype isn’t incredibly common to use like a phone… plus, it is extremely unreasonable to not give a candidate advance notice of the interview (!)

    9. BRR*

      Not normal; red flag. If they want immediate responses via phone or skype, it’s normal to email to set up a time.

    10. CAA*

      What makes them think you use Skype at all? Is it on your resume as a way to contact you? If so, delete that and just put a phone number that you check for messages and an email address.

      If they just randomly found your Skype by searching for people with your email address or something like that, then it’s reasonable to reply with “Sorry I missed you, but I don’t regularly use Skype. I can always be reached at the email address and phone number on my resume.” It won’t get you an interview for this job, but at least it might make them aware that they’re doing something weird.

    11. Crylo Ren*

      Super weird and you dodged a bullet. I’ve only used Skype twice for interviewing in my 8-year career and those were always preceded by a lengthy email chain to confirm dates and contact info.

      1. Kat in VA*

        Agreed. I’ve used it three times for interviews (two Skype, one Zoom) and there was always options of dates/times, just like a regular phone interview, as well as a link to either of the applications in case they weren’t already installed on your computer.

        This sounds sketchy, to be honest.

    12. nep*

      It absolutely would have to be scheduled. A prospective employer can’t just attempt to Skype call at their convenience and expect you to be there and be able to take it. Sorry you lost out but sounds like their loss, not yours.
      All the best.

    13. MissDisplaced*

      That’s crappy. Any good interviewer would email first to arrange a time, or call your phone to arrange the Skype. Few people keep the VoIP open all the time.

  57. Casper Lives*

    Does anyone know how long premployment background checks usually take? I left my bad job and have been doing a little contract work for a month. I’ve been lucky to get a great job offer and have savings to live on. I filled out the background check info yesterday. I know it hasn’t been a long time, but I’m getting antsy waiting for the drug test & all of that!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      It really depends on what exactly they are checking. Criminal background checks can be quick if you (a) don’t have a super common name and (b) don’t have a record. If one of those things is true, it can take a little longer though.

      1. Casper Lives*

        Thanks! I don’t have a record, but my name is semi-common. It’s my first time working for a big company.

      2. AnitaJ*

        Agreed with Amy–I’ve also had background checks take significantly longer if the individual has lived in multiple places; the company would then check for felonies/misdemeanors in a number of states, and it’s on the local government to get back to them. So we could be waiting for a bit. And others were done within 24 hours! Good luck–I hope it goes quickly for you.

    2. Sam Foster*

      Up to 10 business days is the standard answer I get when I ask. Most recent one was about that long.

  58. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

    Hi everyone! Hope y’all are doing well this week. I need some input……

    As we know, I was fired on 7/2 for being a whistleblower. Aside from the obvious “I’ve been fired!” issue, this termination makes me look like a job hopper. Prior to this, I had taken a seasonal job (4 months) to get me through the holidays. And then I was at this job for not even four months. This looks awful on my resume!

    Would y’all just leave the most recent job off? Or the seasonal job before it? Or should I put them both on my resume and hope that someone will look past that? Or should I leave them both off and address their absence in any interview? Per the open thread a few weeks ago, I will address the termination as being for reporting compliance issues but I can’t even get in the doors for an interview right now.

    (And for the curious….dominoes have started to fall. City inspection was Wednesday. My lawyer’s letter goes out today. All agencies have acknowledged receipt of my complaints and OSHA is investigating the whistleblower aspect of my termination. The CEO got back in town Tuesday so he walked in on Wednesday to a city codes inspector. Welcome home! LOL……I’ve officially lost any sympathy I had for him and want to see him burn.)

    1. ExcelJedi*

      Definitely put (Seasonal) next to the job title for the seasonal job, and keep it on your resume. I don’t know about the latest one, though. :(

      1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

        I’ve done that. I think I’ll leave that one on and the other one off. I’ll bring it up in an interview if they ask what I’ve been doing since leaving the sheet-selling Scientologists (that was the seasonal job).

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I would note that the seasonal job was a short term contract. That should help mitigate some of the ‘job hoppiness’ since it was by design.

      Sending you good vibes!

      1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

        Thanks Amy. I’ll do that. Hopefully I can get some interviews lined up. Getting very frustrated! Like, to the point I wish I’d kept my mouth shut and just let the chips fall……..*le sigh*

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          It’s going to be rough going for the next little while, but a year from now, I think you will be grateful that you did what you did.

          ALSO – you worked for Scientologists? I have approximately a billion questions.

          1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

            I’m already glad I did what I did. I have a law enforcement background and take the law quite seriously. Due to the potential fallout landing on me, I had to do what I did. I still giggle when I think about the final confrontation (No, that’s not what I said! I said that I had *already* filed the complaint! Even now I giggle!). It makes me feel good. Then I want to go buy something and realize I have to watch my money. Grrrrrrrrrr……

            And yes, I worked for Scientologists. Sososososo cliquey and the weirdest administrative policies! A strange atmosphere altogether, but I did make good money there. Ask away! (Sidenote: I present as a bit of a pushover, people always underestimate me….freaking always!……they kept trying to draw me into their nonsense and that was when they learned I wasn’t a pushover!)

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              I am obsessed with Scientology and cults.

              Did they push you to take courses/do auditing? Did you ever? Was it a Scientology organization or just a business owned by Scientologists? I want to know everything!

              1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

                It was a business owned by Scientologists. I am in Clearwater, FL so my exposure to Scientologists is daily and massive. When you go on an interview to a Scientologist-owned company, they are so proud to tell you “We adhere to L. Ron Hubbard’s Administrative Principles.” As soon as I hear that nonsense, I am almost running for the door.

                They never pushed me to take any classes or be audited or anything like that, but I think that was because they finally realized I am NOT a pushover at all. I think I was hired with the intent of trying to convert me (I present as meek and mild in interviews…and I don’t cut an imposing figure at 5’5″ and <100 lbs.). But I just couldn't get into a lot of the stuff they were in to. There was no way to climb the ladder unless you were a Scientologist. Non-Scientologists were put in disposable positions, while Scientologists were given C-suite level jobs regardless of their qualifications. My supervisor was dumb as a box of rocks (seriously, she was not only not intelligent but crazy naive about basic issues…..and she was the worse Secret Santa I've ever had!). They put on a great Christmas party, but the overall tenor of the company was……..off.

                The CEO's mom was the accountant/HR department and she was also the general coordinator of donations to the Church of Scientology. She was a really really strange person……really strange. Kissing butt one second, nasty the next and lied like none us ever remembered anything. Weird lady. She left the donation spreadsheet on her desk one day when I was in her office. I canNOT believe how much money is funneled into that mess of a cult. I was so tempted to show up in a Guy Fawkes mask and protest after I left.

                What else can I tell you?

                1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  It’s horrifying how much money people give to Scientology. Like… yes, some religions expect you to tithe, but I can’t think of a single one that makes you pay to be a member.

                  IDEK. I read The Underground Bunker and watch Aftermath and have read a ton of the books from former members so I just find it all fascinating.

                  Which… since you’re in Clearwater, maybe you could reach out to the Aftermath Foundation and see if there is anything you can do for them? No idea if they have paid positions available, but their focus is providing resources from people who want out.

                1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

                  Countess, I haven’t but will definitely check it out based on your recommendation! Always looking for a good book.

                  Detective Amy, I will reach out to them and see what they have. I’d love to be such a rebel that I get on Scientology’s radar!!!!!

                2. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  I think that was one of my first exposures to the horrors of Scientology. Absolutely horrifying.

    3. Bea*

      Leave the 4 month clusterFk off there!! You do not want to be associated with them. You’ll also run the risk possibly of someone knowing the company or CEO etc and knowing what’s going on. Depending on how small your world is.

      Hopefully the economy is good in your area and you find a good job soon!

      1. Destroyer of Worlds, Empress of Awesome*

        Thanks Bea. Yes, I will leave that mess off my resume most definitely. The economy is decent down here (Florida, Tampa area) but not thriving so I’m hopeful something will pop soon. I’ve signed up with a bunch of temp agencies………

    4. Eliza*

      No advice to give unfortunately but as a long time lurker I would like to say I love your weekly updates and would love to hear more. Also I hope you get a new job soon.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’d leave the most recent job off your resume; it’s not long enough that you’d be able to list significant accomplishments, and it’s just going to raise questions you’re better off not getting into an interview.

  59. Curious Cat*

    Thoughts on wearing rompers to work? An intern in our office was wearing one the other day, and while it was a very work-appropriate romper (no weird cutouts or open back), it struck me as odd and still not something to be worn in an office. People wear long jumpsuits/pantsuits, so maybe it’s just the fact that they’re essentially shorts?

    1. There is a Life Outside the Library*

      If you’re allowed to wear shorts, sure. We’re not allowed to wear shorts where I work, but I do wear full length jumpsuits (I find a lot of pretty flower-y ones on ASOS).

      1. Curious Cat*

        We’re a pretty casual office in terms of dress, but shorts are one of the things we can’t wear. I didn’t say anything to the intern since she reports to a different team, but I agree that since they’re similar to shorts and we don’t allow shorts, a romper falls into the category.

        1. SoCalHR*

          if the romper was a skirt, would it have been a work-appropriate length? Either way, I agree romper shorts are shorts.

          1. Curious Cat*

            True – translating the romper to dress/skirt length seems like a good rule of thumb.

      2. Can't Sit Still*

        It just dawned on me that we don’t have a dress code, and yet I’ve never seen anyone in shorts, no matter how hot it gets.

    2. Magikarp*

      I guess it depends on the workplace, but if they’re shorter than what would be an acceptable length dress in your office, I’d probably stay away from it.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I will confess that I do not understand the jumpsuit/romper trend because I pee a lot and you basically have to get naked to do that and that just seems like far too much effort.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I feel the same way about the grown up pajama onesies that are super popular now. Like, yes, okay, they are adorable and look cozy and warm, buuuuuut I would freeze every time I had to use the bathroom and that would kind of defeat the purpose.

      4. CupcakeCounter*

        especially in a public place!!!
        I also have a very long torso so jumpsuits/rompers give me serious camel toe

        1. Jemima Bond*

          Me too, I have tried jumpsuits a few times and it is not a good look!! And a permanent front-wedgie is no more comfortable than it is attractive…
          By way of continuining the transatlantic linguistic/cultural exchange; over here we call a jumpsuit with short legs a playsuit. Rompers are what babies wear. Neither is appropriate for work! Well maybe if you worked in fashion you could wear a playsuit but otherwise it’s way too short.

    4. SoCalHR*

      I’ve worn my crop-length romper to work with a blazer but I certainly wouldn’t wear anything above the knee…plus 90% of the short-rompers I see are REALLY short (much to my dismay) so I can’t imagine they would be appropriate

    5. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Depends on the office. In mine (and in every company I’ve ever worked)? Well, you’re going to get talked to by your manager, then weird looks from everyone. And that’s assuming they didn’t decide to send you home for the day.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I have what’s probably an unreasonable hate for adults in rompers. So I vote not professional.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I’m with you, my reaction was an immediate NO. I bought one romper once because I liked the fabric. Immediately cut out the crotch area and restyled it as a top – it was barely tunic length. That’s too short for 99% of offices.

        Jumpsuits (full length or cropped below the knee) are fine if that’s your style, but rompers (which are knee length or shorter shorts) are for children. Also, rompers for children are the worst because not too many children are well versed in how to hold clothing off the floor in bathrooms while using the facilities.

    7. Holly*

      A professional jumpsuit with a blazer could probably look professional if you can pull it off – but note jumpsuit, so full pants romper, NOT shorts.

    8. Crylo Ren*

      I’ve contemplated wearing a jumpsuit myself to my (admittedly, super casual) office. That being said, the only one I’m considering is a solid black, full-length jumpsuit, and I would wear it with a structured cardigan/blazer and maybe even a belt so that it isn’t super obvious that it’s a jumpsuit.

  60. Bea*

    We had an unexpected termination right before I finished yesterday. So I’m battling all the internal crap inside myself and gearing up for the “clean up” process. I’m a couple years removed from dealing with this on the HR level. I suddenly remember this part is utter hell.

    I don’t have a question. I’m just working on processing this. The person was a loose cannon and it’s not shocking but it’s defeating since they’re kind and loving…just dramatic.

    I’ve seen so many intense firings or walk offs but they’re usually the ones that are easiest to handle because they went so OTT.

      1. Bea*

        Prior I’ve had to be the one to break the news. File paperwork for the reasons for termination. Fight unemployment. Go through hoops to transfer benefits responsibilities (cobra doesn’t apply always, only for 20+ employees).

        These aren’t just layoffs, these are often violent or bordering violent and volatile situations. It’s not just deactivating some accounts.

  61. Pancakes*

    Question about asking for a travel stipend on an unpaid internship:

    A friend is currently in a graduate program and will be taking on an internship next semester for class credit. This internship is at a for-profit company and is unpaid, although some other classmates with internships at different companies are being paid (so it isn’t a class requirement that the internship be unpaid or anything). The company is not located near my friend’s school, so she will be incurring expenses each day as she takes public transportation to the internship. We were talking about this and were wondering if it is possible for her to ask for a travel reimbursement. In the past I’ve worked at unpaid internships that provided a small transportation stipend for each day I worked (just a few dollars) to make it so that working unpaid wasn’t costing me money. My current employer provides a reimbursement for part of the cost of a monthly public transportation pass (I don’t believe this benefit is available to interns, but our interns are paid).

    I was thinking that she could ask if there was a travel reimbursement program she could join, just to see, but it NOT present it as asking for a travel stipend because she is an unpaid intern. She isn’t expecting that they’ll give her anything, but does want to see if it might be possible. What are your thoughts on this? Does it seem like an entitled intern faux pas? Or a reasonable request from someone who will be working unpaid?

    1. Red Reader*

      I don’t think it’s a great idea. How one gets to work is one’s own problem, not one’s employer’s. If I asked my boss about reimbursement for one of my rare trips onsite, she’d laugh me out of her office and rightly so.

    2. Bea*

      I’ve only seen transit assistance for places that have no on-site parking options around here.

      She’s taking an unpaid internship, so asking for any assistance or money from them will seem off. She’s not on payroll, she can’t just be cut a check easily. It’ll depend on how their accounting is set up.

    3. medium of ballpoint*

      If the internship is unpaid, this seems like a really big (and out of touch) ask, and wouldn’t make a great first impression.

    4. Holly*

      Strange – I completely disagree with the other commenters. If she asks whoever the intern coordinator is whether there’s any opportunity for a travel stipend to cover public transportation expenses, and they say no, and she says “thanks for letting me know” and doesn’t push, I don’t see how that could be construed as unprofessional. It’s a reasonable thing to ask if the company offers.

      1. Kathenus*

        I fall on this side of it as well. I think it might be helpful when making the ask to include something like, ‘I know it’s a longshot, but I was wondering if there’s any reimbursement or stipend available to help with transportation expenses’. That way you are asking, but being clear that you don’t have an expectation that you will get one.

      2. Thlayli*

        Yeah I think it would be fine to ask. However unpaid internships are very much not the norm where I live so I could be way off base.

      3. CAA*

        I also think it’s fine to ask, but “travel stipend” are the wrong words to use. She’s not traveling, she’s commuting. Ask if the company offers reimbursement or assistance paying for transit passes.

        1. Holly*

          Sure – I think travel stipend still covers that, depending where the internship is, but it’s never a bad idea to clarify!

      5. Cat Herder*

        Yes, I agree. Completely reasonable, as long as it’s presented as inquiring rather than demanding or expecting.

    5. NeverNicky*

      I work for a charity (UK) and all our volunteers get their travel expenses paid – and we offer, they don’t have to ask.

    6. krysb*

      If this internship is for a for-profit company…. well, I’d have told her not to do it, period, because it’s most likely not following the DOL rules regarding unpaid internships, anyway. But that’s cynical me.

  62. TheMouse*

    I need advice on how to keep the green-eyed monster at bay at work. I’m very good friends with someone in my field who started working for the same company I work for a few months ago and I’m very much struggling with not letting jealousy get the best of me. She’s much more charismatic than me and she tends to be the one people remember and go to and seek out to talk to, even though I’ve been here for several years. She’ll get invited out to drinks/events with clients that I’ve known for years and have a strong relationship with and I can’t help but feel left out or like I’m missing something. I still have a good working relationship with everyone, but I’m definitely more introverted and less likely to hang around after hours to socialize (I do every once and a while but I just can’t stick around until 8pm/9pm every night). I’m trying not to let my insecurities result in me getting angry with her or destroying our working or personal relationship, but it’s hard. Anyone have any advice/gone through something similar?

    1. NicoleK*

      I can totally relate. I’m dealing with the same situation and just posted my question below.

    2. Lumen*

      When I started at my current job, I felt very much on the outside looking in. Just constant awkwardness, not feeling seen or welcome. It didn’t help that a couple of members of my new team took out their dislike of our manager on me, but even in other departments, no one seemed interested in talking to me even if I talked to them first. It was so demoralizing.

      A year later, we hired someone new to our team. Same role. INSTANT acceptance. Within days she’s made friends all over the office, the coworkers who were mean to me fawn over her, and is getting invited out to happy hours and the like. ‘Demoralizing’ isn’t even the word for it. It still bugs me sometimes because I don’t get it. I’m a little more introverted but it just hits me right in my inner “what’s wrong with me” 12 year old self.

      Someone here on AaM pointed out that I have no idea what knots this girl might be twisting herself into in order to be broadly liked by every group, and that wasn’t the only advice I got, but it was the most helpful (and I wish I remembered who gave it). I really do not know her story, her life, or anything. Maybe she just has more in common with people. Maybe she bites her tongue when I wouldn’t. Maybe she’s stressed and unhappy here BECAUSE of all the socializing and gossip that comes with it, and I’m free from that.

      That’s how I deal with my envy when it rears up. “Not my circus, not my monkeys.” is one mantra. “I don’t know their story.” is another.

      Also… I just focus more on the relationships I do have. Funnily enough, they tend to be more 1-on-1 conversations with other introverts around the office. They may not invite me to big group hangs (because they aren’t going either), but they also don’t give me weird looks when I talk or make me feel insecure.

    3. Kathenus*

      I echo Lumen’s suggestion of thinking through the lens that ‘I don’t know their story’. I started in my job a few years ago and almost all of my peers spent their entire careers with the organization, and it’s a very insular culture with a strong dash of experience here is much more important than experience elsewhere thrown in.
      There are a few people I really struggle with and I definitely feel on the outside looking in at times.

      Another peer came in recently from the outside, and seemed to fit in seamlessly. Frustrating and humbling (maybe it’s just me…), and I definitely felt some of that jealousy trying to creep in. This new person and I are friends, and recently I found out they are dealing with a tremendous amount of crap at work from a different direction – I had no idea. I have no problems from the area she is, so turns out we’re both having some challenges (and successes) from different places, but I spent over a year thinking she had just fit in perfectly while I was struggling. You only know your own details, you never really know anyone else’s full situation so it’s almost impossible to try to compare to someone else.

    4. Thlayli*

      You say you are introverted and don’t hang around after work. It seems like you probably didn’t want people inviting you out for after hours shenanigans. Generally people can get a sense of whether someone would be interested in going out or not. They probably didn’t invite you out because they thought you wouldn’t want to go out. They probably get the opposite vibe off your friend. Generally most people will treat you the way they think you want to be treated. If you want to start going out now then speak up! Let them know you are interested in coming. They’d probably be perfectly happy to have you along.

  63. DC to NYC*

    Tips on finding an entry to mid-level policy job in NYC? Will be making the move from DC to join my partner and not finding anything great on Indeed. Also any tips from those who have moved from DC to NYC would be appreciated!

    3. Holly*

      Have you asked your DC connections if they have any NYC connections? It’s not uncommon. I would also start immediately networking in NYC area if possible.

  64. NicoleK*

    This question will be similar to the Ask the Reader question posted earlier this week. As a reserved introvert, how do I stand out from my gregarious, chatty, extroverted coworker? I feel invisible at times. We have the same roles but I’m frequently overlooked.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Maybe focus your energy on better one on one relationship building?

    2. Anon4This*

      Ooh, I can relate. My coworker and I were hired around the same time (although I have about a year on her) and do similar work, and people tend to gravitate to her a bit more since she’s more outgoing.

      First, I know it’s easier said than done, but try not to take it too personally. I’m sure people appreciate that you’re (I’m assuming) a chill, pleasant person who shows up and gets shit done, and I’m sure that some people secretly find the chatty coworker exhausting. If any part of you wants to try to be more outgoing, try to observe how she talks to people and learn from it. I don’t have the energy to be ON all the time, which my coworker definitely is, but having her around is a good reminder to let my walls down a little bit.

      Second, see if there’s anything extra you can do at work to set yourself apart, beyond just being very good at your routine work. I’m good with tech stuff, so when an opportunity came up to be part of a work group for a more tech-y part of our job, I jumped on it. Over time, that turned into being the go-to person to help with computer issues, which people seem to really appreciate. I also took the lead on recruitment with our local state university that I attended as a student. Both of those are fairly minor things, but they help me stay visible and keep me from getting sucked into my coworker’s shadow.

    3. epi*

      I’ve been in this position.

      Take ownership of a resource or a process. For example my old company paid for database software that wasn’t well known in my department. I recommended it to someone for a project, it ended up working out, I happily cooperated when people wanted to use me as their point of contact for that service in the future. They didn’t have to go through me and of course I never led them to believe that they did, but I was the person who knew about the system, whether it would be a good fit for their project, and how to hook them up.

      Make sure you are taking full advantage of first impressions and projects where you are working without your coworker. I love projects where I am going to be seeing the same people repeatedly for a while– they are much more the speed I want to get to know people and I make a great impression in that context. In exchange for putting yourself out there a *little* more than feels natural to you up front, you can get incorporated into the project group and start developing relationships there.

  65. Oh Goody. A Recruiter Called/s*

    Interviewing with recruiters at staffing agencies: what questions do you ask them? The “normal” questions you’d ask a company during an interview don’t apply, and if the recruiter is any good they’ve already gone through their procedures, how they work, how they find jobs, if you’re right for the job they called you in for (lol of course not, there’s always a reason), how often they get positions you would be right for, salary expectations, next steps, how to contact them. But after all that they always ask, do you have any questions for me? And I stumble because they’ve answered all the ones I would normally cover. So I wind up either saying, ” no you covered everything thanks” or asking something lame like, “how long have you been in business.”
    Part of my issue is that I hate being a performing pony and asking questions in this situation seems like a requirement to “prove” how much I want a job (GUMPTION) rather than being genuinely curious about something. I’ve also had bad experiences with recruiters who are shocked, SHOCKED that I have all these skills when I’m not 25 and perky. (This is despite knowing most of the 25 year olds they’re putting through to hiring managers DON”T have the skills required. But they “look” right.) I know that the likelihood of my getting a job through a recruiter is almost nil but I still can’t refuse the interviews because what if this one is the one who will actually “see” me?

    1. irene adler*

      I’d like to know how well they understand the skill set and the industry I will be working in.
      Can they understand beyond matching the number of buzz words between the resume and the job description.
      If so, how would they “sell” my skill set to a client?

    2. Lumen*

      I always keep these two in my back pocket for the “any questions for us?” portion of the interview.

      “What do YOU like best about working here?”
      (People love to talk about themselves and this may help you see whether it’s genuinely a culture fit beyond what is shown on paper.)

      “If we were to be doing an initial review in 90 days, what kind of conversation would you like to be having with me?”
      (This is totally a sales tactic where you assume they want to hire you, but you also get to find out what you should be focused on for those first three months and whether that is reasonable.)

    3. Recruiter*

      They usually ask about questions to make sure you understand the process and to give you their full attention. It’s not to make you sell yourself.

      Ask if they can see you fitting into any of their clients companies really well? Sometimes I don’t have an open position (the candidate knows this before they come in) but I can tell they would be perfect for a client. At that point I reach out to the client and see what they might have available that they haven’t asked for help with.

      Ask how often you should check in and what’s the recruiters preferred way to reach out?

      Ask for genuine feedback and career advice. They have a lot of random knowledge about companies in town and job searching tricks.

      Good luck!

  66. Magikarp*

    This is something I’ve just been thinking about a lot lately and feeling generally sad about. I’ve been at my job for a couple years (as a temp), and I know my long term solution is to leave, but that is not possible at the moment. In many aspects of my work, I do better work than my supervisor and some members of the salaried staff. We are very data oriented, so this is something that can be objectively verified. I know that my biggest weakness is my interpersonal skills, but I have a really hard time taking certain co-workers/my supervisor seriously and not feeling bitter about their status as “real” employees when I outperform them. Anyone experience anything like this, or have tips on how to put up a good front even when you are not feeling it at all?

    1. Evil HR Person*

      My first question would be: why are you a temp for 2 years? That seems like you’re full time, to me. Are you in the US? If so, there have been landmark cases (most notably, a Microsoft one) where employees were mis-classified.

      As for advice: fake it till you make it. You have (presumably) full control over your job destiny. Own it and become the “real” employee of a different company.

      1. Natalie*

        If Magikarp is working at this company through a staffing agency there’s very little chance of any kind of reclassification. It’s not illegal to employ someone through a third party indefinitely. The staffing agency permatemps that sued Microsoft did so because their stock benefit plan was vaguely worded, and they were essentially arguing that they should have access to that plan. They didn’t need to get converted to direct hires.

        The case also settled out of court, so it sets no precedent.

  67. Qwertyuiop*

    My boss and I were looking at my Outlook calendar to see the meeting schedule and he saw that I had time off scheduled. He then told my coworker about it and she didn’t know, but I don’t know why he announced it to her. I was embarrassed. There is no privacy in my work place.
    Does anyone else experience this?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Does he expect her to do your work or serve as point of contact while you’re gone? “Hey Jane, Qwerty’s going to be out next week, can you handle the llamas?” is normal. I’m also not sure why you’re embarrassed– you’re taking some time off, which everyone should do– but maybe there’s more to the story? In my office, and in many I’ve worked in, we have a calendar and/or we let each other know we’ll be out so they can plan around it. That’s pretty typical.

    2. CBE*

      Frankly, I am a little baffled at the expectation that people *shouldn’t* know when you’re out of the office, particularly people you work with and could be scheduling meetings with.
      It’s common knowledge around here when people have time off scheduled, so that the team can still get the work done.

      1. Becky*

        In my office it is seen as inconsiderate of others to NOT tell them that you’re going to be out. (Obviously doesn’t apply if it is a sudden emergency or illness.) We always announce a few days in advance to the team if we know we’re going to be out and if it will be an extended vacation we announce well in advance.

    3. Pollygrammer*

      Unless he told her why you would be out and it was for something personal like a therapist appointment or a funeral, I don’t think this is an invasion of privacy. Wouldn’t she eventually realize you weren’t in the office, whether or not she had a heads up?

    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      WHY you’re out of the office is your business and you share as you choose. THAT you’re out of the office everyone needs to know. Can’t tell from your post, but if it was the 2nd case, then you need to adjust your norms a bit.

      1. qwertyuiop*

        I tell people when I’m out, but they never tell me. I was embarrassed because my boss made some loud comment, “Qwerty, did you tell coworker that you’re going to be out?” Now, coworker either “forgets” to tell me, doesn’t tell me, or waits until the day of to tell me, or tells everyone EXCEPT me when she’s off.

        Whenever I’m out of the office and return, coworker gives me the cold shoulder, so….. I’m not exactly thrilled with telling her because the next day she doesn’t talk to me or makes passive aggressive remarks for most of the day and then has the nerve to tell me that I’M THE ONE being difficult.

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          This seems like all of you are acting a little weird about time off.

        2. I'm A Little Teapot*

          Yeah, your coworker at least has a problem, possibly everyone else. This isn’t normal behavior.

    5. Evil HR Person*

      This sounds like y’all need to figure out how to open the shared calendars feature in Outlook to look at each other’s plans. Or, alternatively, have IT set up a calendar that keeps track of your whole department’s time off. If anybody needs to set up an appointment around my office, we just open other people’s calendars and see when they’re free *shrug*

      1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        I’m with you, we have a team calendar set up as a separate calendar that can be overlayed onto your personal calendar in Outlook.

        It’s a life saver. Like I said earlier I’m very confused about the secrecy that is going on here.

    6. Margery*

      Where I work we let our co-workers and managers know when we will be on vacation. It’s courtesy plus we know we’ll have to step in and help their bosses when they’re off.

    7. Thlayli*

      Where I work I can check anyone’s outlook calendar in the whole company. How else would I be able to schedule meetings?

  68. Canonical23*

    How many applications are too many applications to a particular company?

    Context: I’m a librarian. I recently got my masters and I’ve been working as a department head in a less than well-funded area for not quite two years. I’ve done some really awesome things here, but I’m getting a little frustrated with making about 8$ less per hour than the average graduate in my position, as well as some not-great attitude from upper management towards the entire staff (we should be happy that we have jobs and stop asking for fair pay and we should DEFINITELY stop asking for money to actually provide good resources and programs for our patrons – if it costs money, it’s not worth it.)

    However, public libraries are a pretty niche field and there aren’t just dozens of different ones in my area to choose from – there are 3 other systems besides mine in the area. Two are quite the drive away (over an hour, probably quite a bit more with rush hour traffic) and don’t really have the culture that I want to work at. The third is an enormous system – think over a dozen locations throughout the city. It’s well-funded, well-respected and seems to have a good employee culture.

    I’ve applied three times to this system and gotten interviewed twice. My feedback from one interview was “you’re overqualified because you have a masters and this position requires a high school diploma – I’ll let people know that you’re looking for something” and the other one was a more vague “we went with an internal candidate” type thing. Every month or so a different position opens up and some of them I am qualified for and would enjoy doing – when do I stop applying? A lot of my librarian friends say that they’ve put in dozens of applications to a big system before they landed a job because the job market is so competitive for well-paying librarianships, but I also don’t want to appear super desperate and get myself marked as someone that should never step foot in an interview. It’s a little nagging thought that’s keeping me from applying to a position they just posted that is double my salary and is the head of the department for one of the tasks that at my current job, is my favorite thing to do.

    1. AMPG*

      Three applications and two interviews is a good sign that you should keep applying. And it’s smart to apply for higher-level positions if you were deemed overqualified for a previous posting. I say go for it.

    2. Borgette*

      After my partner completed their MLS they interviewed 5-6 times internally for librarian positions in their public library system, and several times in the neighboring systems before accepting a position thousands of miles away. It’s a competitive field and their experience was fairly normal. Try to stick to the postings that require the MLS, and consider opening your search to other regions or types of libraries. Good luck!

    4. Ruth (US)*

      As a fellow MLS-holder, I agree with AMPG and Borgette – this library system is interested in you, but maybe limit yourself to applying for jobs that require an MLS, since it sounds like they don’t want to fill paraprofessional jobs with library degree holders. And I can commiserate – the library field is such an employer’s market right now that it makes job searching frustrating. I had a full-time paraprofessional library job when I started working on my MLS, and it took me three years after I graduated to find the right job.

      The current job opening sounds like a great opportunity for you; I’d definitely go for it! The typical advice applies – make sure that your cover letter addresses why you’re excited about this opening specifically, and tailor your resume for it, if that’s possible. Good luck!

      1. Ruth (US)*

        (I agree with Marion too – it looks like she posted while I was working out my reply)

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        I agree. You are getting interviews which is a good sign, also a lot of larger library systems don’t do centralized hiring. So, they may have totally separate committees for different branches and won’t automatically know you already applied for something else.

    5. Canonical23*

      I definitely felt weird applying to a paraprofessional job, but it made more money than my current position (them student loans though) and I’ve been in systems that really only hire from within, so I thought it was worth a shot.

      I think I am going to apply to the position that opened and I’ll keep my fingers crossed! (and keep looking too)

      1. Loves Libraries*

        I’m in a similar position. I was a school librarian so I don’t have a MLS but a M Ed in school library. When my private school decided they had too many librarians on the payroll my position was eliminated. I didn’t want to go to the public school system because I’m the elementary and middle schools there is no in school tech support. The librarians do it all. Also paraprofessionals in the library were eliminated. So I wanted to go to our wonderful public library. I know they promote internally so I applied to an assistant position which I didn’t get as well as an associate position which I thought was a great fit but didn’t get either. Had interviews for both. I also applied to another position that said MLS preferred but not required. I didn’t even get an interview. 9 months later there is a posting for an assistant position. Should I even bother? Why wouldn’t a library want someone overqualified?
        Keep us posted on your search.

  69. Working with less competent, less sharp people*

    I’ve always been a high performer in school and in work. I’ve been in the workforce 10 years now, and I still struggle a lot with working with people who just…. aren’t on my level. I’m worked at many places and at every one, there’s a handful of competent, considerate, and cooperative people, and then everyone else just…. kind of sucks. Some of them have a lower baseline of intelligence (write emails with terrible grammar and spelling, show minimal evidence of critical thinking, etc.), and others just aren’t motivated or don’t care what people think of them (not reading emails before they respond, trying to get others to do their work for them, being loud and obnoxious, etc.). This includes managers/directors too. And it drives me CRAZY!!!

    I know this kind of makes me sound pompous, but I think all regular readers of this site know how common this problem is… How do you all deal?

    1. ExcelJedi*

      I think one thing you could do is stop trying to categorize broad intelligence (IQ as we test it isn’t really a good psychologically construct anyway) and look at competencies. They may not be competent at grammar or critical thinking, but are great at working with other people or managing routine tasks, for example. Look critically at where your competencies are less than stellar.

      I was also a high achiever in school, and I do a lot of the math/analysis at my job….but I know that I’m terrible on the phone, have to fake it in social situations, and come off as too abrasive for customers. We all have our places where we shine, and where we don’t.

      2. Anon4This*

        Yeah, this. Sometimes I can’t help but roll my eyes when my boss makes a technical mistake or overlooks something that I think should be obvious, but I try to remind myself that he’s SO good at a lot of things that I’m still working on, and his plate is much fuller than my own.

        Part of it is also just trying to be less emotionally invested in your job. Why do I care if someone has terrible spelling or grammar, as long as I understand the message? There will always be people who are more challenging to work with, whether it’s because they lack the skills or just aren’t trying, and that’s part of what you’re paid to deal with.

      3. Working with less competent, less sharp people*

        I’m definitely a believer in different types of intelligence and finding people roles that benefit from their strengths. I don’t mean that I’m frustrated when a customer service rep (for example) isn’t some sort of computer genius or vice versa–I mean when people are unwilling or unable to understand the tasks necessary to their own role.

        1. Thlayli*

          That’s very different from your initial comment though. Maybe you need to really think about what the issues are.

    2. Youth*

      Hmm, well, I’m very much into grammar. (English major here!) I’ve come to recognize, though, that even otherwise intelligent people may have bad grammar. At my company, some of those people are at the top of the organization. I’ve had to tell myself that they weren’t hired for their ability to write nice emails; the poor grammar is a trade-off for their other valuable skills. (Though I do wish the company offered some kind of coaching for them since they often are in contact with external folks! Although…to be honest…many of the high-level external people we work with also have bad grammar. Welp.)

      I do similar things with those whose thinking doesn’t reach the level I think it should. There’s usually a reason why they’re there–something they bring to the table–it just isn’t their quick thinking.

      Also, as a high performer, your standards may not align with reality. I’ve often found that what I thought was the ~minimum~ required to get ‘er done actually ended up blowing everyone else away. The bar for good work at my workplace is a lot lower than what I personally think it should be! That can be frustrating when I have to collaborate with others, but it often makes me stand out among my peers at work.

      1. LCL*

        Hm, there is something you touched on that OP didn’t mention at all. Since you see your working challenges as similar I want to point this out.

        Your second paragraph, you say that you look for the good when you believe someone’s thinking is lacking, because they bring something to the table, ‘it just isn’t their quick thinking.’ Don’t make the very common mistake of thinking fast thinkers are best thinkers. Fast thinkers are just fast. And usually very verbal about it. For people who speak English as their first language, fast thinking and talking are seen as indicators of intelligence and ability. But they’re not. Sometimes, fast talking is a kind of performative, ‘look at how bright I am’ exercise. So it sounds like you and OP are on a naturally fast clock. But people are all different.

        1. Working with less competent, less sharp people*

          I totally see what you mean and I agree-I’m actually an internal processor myself. I guess I mean problem solving ability–people who are faced with a problem to solve and either have no interest in solving it (passing the buck to someone else) or pick the laziest, “easiest” (for them) solution.

        2. Youth*

          Mmm, I see what you mean, and I totally agree that the person who responds the most quickly isn’t necessarily always the brightest–but in this case I wasn’t referring to literal quick thinking. I work with a guy who has a hard time understanding simple tasks, and that doesn’t change no matter how long he thinks about them. However, he has some excellent skills in other areas that don’t involve analyzing, and that’s the value that we as his coworkers see in him. We won’t go to him for ideas, but we will go to him to get other things done.

      2. Working with less competent, less sharp people*

        “The bar for good work at my workplace is a lot lower than what I personally think it should be! That can be frustrating when I have to collaborate with others, but it often makes me stand out among my peers at work.”

        This is a helpful way of looking at it. I think basically I always want to excel at my job, and others don’t have that drive, which I have a hard time relating to. (I’m not even “career-driven” but I figure if I’m going to be somewhere 40 hours a week I should try to learn as much as I can.) But it does mean I stand out in good ways.

    3. Tom*

      I struggle with the same thing, so I’m interested to see what others say. I tell myself that since I have zero interest in being a freelancer/starting my own business, I’m choosing to work with people who do things badly rather than do everything myself. It’s not always enough.

      Grammar mistakes don’t bother me much, but I often find myself working with someone who’s been doing their job for many years (and consequently gets paid significantly more than I do) and still has no understanding whatsoever of a lot of the basic processes. Sometimes it might be an innate inability on their part, but more often I think they just don’t care to understand, since there are no consequences for not understanding.

      I’ve honestly thought about switching careers and doing something that I have no natural aptitude for. I’d probably spend my life on the verge of getting fired, but sometimes I really think I might enjoy that better. Working with people who are more competent and more knowledgeable than I am is such a great learning experience, and I’m not getting that at work anymore.

      1. Working with less competent, less sharp people*

        “still has no understanding whatsoever of a lot of the basic processes.” This is definitely something I struggle with! I always try to understand the whys and reasons behind things we/I do, not just a checklist of things I need to do, but the meaning of those steps I need to complete. It ends up giving me a pretty thorough knowledge of whatever field or task I’m working in. Some people just follow instructions blindly, which can lead to (in my opinion) frustrating mistakes. I think the lack of curiosity on their parts is what gets me.

    4. Bea*

      You’re going to run into this constantly and the best thing is to work on your reactions to their limitations.

      I’ve driven myself up walls my entire career dealing with people who “don’t get it”.

      My critical thinking is sharp and my memory is wicked. Yes, I know what forklift part you need, I’ve got it on is way. After hearing a sputtering muttering “that hose broke again.” from across the room.

      But others aren’t able to and don’t care.

      The thing you need to distance yourself from are the ones who make your job harder. That’s the toxic nonsense that will kill you or burn you out.

      It took me a long time to accept others for who they are and not what I wish they’d be to make me feel good.

      My bosses sans the one were evil geniuses in their own ways. That’s why they were rich and successful. However they struggled with English frequently. Don’t use spelling and grammar as a qualifier. I can only spell because of spellcheck tbh. I had to tell one to keep an eye out for the red squiggle under words as the indicator something was wrong. Again, brilliant men who built their own empires. Pesky English isn’t enough to say they’re not intelligent.

    5. LQ*

      Something I tell myself frequently (and occasionally but not often others) in a …kind of harsh way. “If you can’t figure out how to deal with that, well then you really aren’t that smart are you.” And I have said this to …unexcuse someone’s shitty people skills too. If they can’t figure that out then how smart can they really be. This is all about …you can’t only apply yourself to one kind of problem and feel superior. If you are smarter than another coworker but you can’t figure out how to get them to do their job? Then they just out smarted you because you’re busy doing your work and theirs so…now who is smarter. They are, they get paid to not do anything and you’re getting paid to do the work of two people.

      Beware of being this unkind to yourself!! And super beware of being this unkind to others. But it is a good occasional reminder that there are a lot of things you might not have skills in, like patience. (yo)

      1. Ann O.*

        I don’t accept that someone slacking off and forcing someone else to pick up the work is being smarter. That’s being a crappy worker and a crappy person and no, we cannot accept that as some kind of admirable cleverness.

        It also should never be a co-worker’s job to make another co-worker do their job properly. Let’s not rationalize away the fact that some people are indeed crappy workers and crappy people. Good managers fire and replace them whenever possible.

    6. LilySparrow*

      I used to feel this way. Then I realized that if everybody really was “below my level,” then I would be in charge of everything and be earning way more.

      It made me rethink what my “level” really was, and whether I was using the same metrics as the real world.

      (Hint: I wasn’t.)

    7. MissDisplaced*

      I’m dealing with similar right now with a certain department. It’s not really about intelligence, more like fear and CYA paralysis. And yes, also trying to pass on work to others.

    8. LGC*

      So, like…it’s frustrating! I’m a Smart Person myself, and I work with quite a few people who frustrate me to no end. But one thing I’ve learned is that different people have different competencies.

      I can go on (and almost did) go on about my coworkers and their various shortcomings. (If you’re reading this: hi. I love you! Please don’t fire me.) Meanwhile, I often get introduced as one of the smartest people in the company because I’m pretty good at figuring out how the technology we use works. But my coworkers have different strengths which make them good at their specific roles, and my skillset and needs don’t always intersect neatly with that. And I believe it’s probably the same way for you.

      Basically: your statement that you’ve mostly worked with idiots is, like, just your opinion, man. It’s definitely frustrating, but I think that as others have stated it might not be that everyone is just bad at their jobs – it’s just that their job isn’t to satisfy you.

      (And this is really sounding like, “well, WWLCLSP, actually your problem is that you’re a jerk and don’t appreciate the people around you.” And…you’d be partially right. But also, really, our doc prep manager’s tendency to reply all to everything (including all-company e-mails) is minor compared to the fact that she can watch thirty people with varying degrees of disabilities like a hawk day after day. I’ve filled in for her role and gotten exhausted by the amount of attention required.)

  70. Queenie*

    Was looking at a job posting that includes “A frequent volume of work and deadlines impose strain on routine basis” under the “environmental and physical working conditions” section. Wondering if that’s a red flag. I have never see a job posting mentions that the job would “impose strain” before. Seems like most jobs are stressful to a degree, so this one would be more stressful than usual?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      At the very least, I’d say it’s a yellow flag and ask a lot of questions if I got to the interview phase.

    2. WellRed*

      Yes, if it’s on a routine basis, that tell me they are understaffed or have unrealistic expectations or something.

    3. Not Today Satan*

      I feel like it could be either of two extremes–it’s a toxic place with an unsustainable workload that has driven many people to quit. OR it’s some touchy feely, hippie-dippie place that likes to warn people of any type of impending stress. I’d say there’s 90% odds that it’s the former.

  71. Bee's Knees*

    This week in a Small Town Newsroom

    (Sadly, I do not know how this ended) Yesterday, it came over the scanner that one of the banks had locked someone in the vault by accident, and they needed the police to come and get them out.

    Fergus sent one of our photographers to get some pictures of these two little girls raising money for St. Jude. Well, he wasn’t really specific about what sort of photos he wanted. The next day, we all get called into Boss’s office, who asked what in God’s name is going on, and there is no way we could publish that, and was Fergus some sort of perv. The photographer had taken pictures of the two little girls (Maybe 6 yrs old?) sitting on a bed, holding dollar bills fanned out. With no context, it did not look like a upstanding situation. We chose to run the photo of them “presenting the money to the police” which I called paying off the cops.

    Late Saturday night, the computer systems stalled, and one of the IT guys had to remote in and try and fix it. The system was overloaded, and some things needed to be moved or taken off. He got excited, and started deleting things right and left. Boss somehow compared IT deleting stuff to flinging Napalm in Vietnam. It was a stretch, but he really comitted.

    Jane was in a seperate space in our bullpen, and could hear what was going on, but could not see us, and was removed enough to have her own space. She has now changed jobs, and moved to the desk across from me and next to Farquad. I’m taking bets on how long before she goes off on him. He started talking about his dating life again the other day while I was training her on one of our products, and I half thought she was going to smack him.

    Boss is taking this weekend off, so Jane gets to do my job, and I have to do Boss’s. This will involve the creation of our front page. It could go terribly. If all else fails, there will just be a note at the top to the effect of “This is what it would be like without local newspapers” and the rest of the page blank.

    3. ToodieCat*

      I love small town newsrooms! Spent a lot of years there. BTW, if you like mystery books, check out the Starvation Lake series by Bryan Gruley. Main character is working in a small town newspaper, and I think they were really terrific.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I love this so much. I couldn’t stop laughing at “locked someone in the vault by accident” and “what in God’s name is going on”. Pure gold.

    6. Thursday Next*

      Keep these coming! They’re wildly entertaining (well, I’m a bit worried about the person locked in the vault).

  72. Time Bomb of Petulance*

    I got the job!!! I mentioned last week that I had a job interview that I thought went well, and was hoping for an offer. Well, the offer came and I start next week! I am SUPER excited especially as I mostly get to work remotely and only have to show up at the office occasionally.

  73. Anony-miss*

    I recently got some feedback on my resume that suggested I add sections like Awards/Professional Orgs to my resume because it’s currently at 1 1/2 pages. Unfortunately, I don’t really have many extra things to add that would flesh it out, but the section that pushes me to the second page is all volunteer work that’s relevant to jobs I’m applying for (and that helps flesh out my relatively short working experience). So is it better to tighten the resume up to one page, rather than having an awkward amount of white space at the bottom of the second?

    1. WellRed*

      If you have relatively little working experience your resume absolutely needs to be tightened to one page. edit, edit, edit. Hiring managers will recognize the “filler” and it won’t make you a stronger candidate.

    2. foolofgrace*

      I think it depends on a couple of things. Generally, it’s one resume page for 10 years of experience. And if smashing everything onto one page makes it look crowded, that’s a bad thing. I don’t think that having a half page of white space is so terrible.

    3. Evil HR Person*

      You should already be targeting the resume to the job. Is your work experience less relevant than your volunteer experience? Flip them. I hire a lot of students fresh off school and I know that any relevant experience will either be internships or volunteering. So their resumes tend to look “upside down,” with education on top, volunteer/internship experience next, and work experience (normally just a job that paid the bills, such as waiting tables) at the end. There’s no reason to flesh out the waiting tables portion – we all know what that entails. But you can flesh out the education portion with a “relevant coursework” section, and/or the volunteer portion. Good luck!

    5. Canonical23*

      Look at Alison’s resume advice if you haven’t already – if you’re doing 2-4 bullet points for each position (volunteering included) that discusses accomplishments, that takes up a little bit more space than just bullet-pointing your basic job tasks.

      I had a similar problem though, because even with a short summary, 4 jobs and 1 volunteer position, as well as relevant education – I had about a 3 inch white space on the bottom. Most positions I apply for require a specific set of technological skills so I added a section that listed all of the software/coding/social media/etc that I knew how to use. I’d suggest something similar – e.g. if you’re supposed to know Microsoft Excel inside and out, list off how many years of experience you have and if you’ve taken any online courses for it, etc.

      However, if that doesn’t work, I think that 1 1/2 pages isn’t a bad thing, provided that you aren’t using filler and the page break is between jobs and not between job duties/accomplishments.

  74. Slighted Ex Employee*

    I just left the job from hell (yay!!) but during my last week, I was sick a couple days. I still had adequate sick time saved up, so I used that for those days that I was out and notated it as such on my time card. I received my final check today and low and behold, they had changed my sick days to vacation days and docked my vacation hours instead. The company pays out vacation hours when you leave, but they do not pay not sick hours. I get the feeling that they did this to avoid paying me out my vacation time. But also, is this even legal? They never once asked me for a doctor’s note or anything. I would have gladly provided that if they’d asked. There is nothing in the employee handbook against using sick time during your notice period. There is also nothing in the handbook about providing documentation for sick leave. The difference we’re talking about here is around $1300, so not an insignificant chunk of change…

    1. Halmsh*

      That’s definitely sketchy, likely illegal – I’m thinking timecard fraud? Call your state dept. of labor hotline, and send them a strongly worded email suggesting they rectify the problem ASAP once you’re able to cite the law.

    2. BRR*

      First I would check if there are any laws in your city/county/state for sick or vacation time. Assuming there’s not, I would email and say your vacation payout is off and the time you took was sick time. Treat it as it was an innocent mistake. If they say no, you might have to press harder. Unfortunately it’s usually states that an employee handbook is not a contract and most of the time no law governs PTO so this would be an uphill battle.

  75. Competent Commenter*

    I hope this is considered work—but I’m a woman having trouble with wearing my work slacks with flats because the heel keeps catching in the back of my shoes. It’s too hot where I live to wear ankle boots. I thought I’d gotten my pants hemmed to a reasonable length, and the seamstress said that higher would look like floods (as we said in eighth grade), but this looks stupid and ruins the lines. Does everyone just wear their slacks a little higher hemmed? Do you have any rule of thumb to follow? I guess I never realized this was an issue because in my personal life I never wear slacks, and jeans are heavy enough not to have this problem.

    1. CBE*

      I have this problem with boot cut slacks, but slacks that taper in at the ankle flop around less and don’t catch. So I buy a cut that tapers in closer to the ankle.
      Sadly, that’s getting harder and harder to find as time goes on…
      Could your seamstress taper them in instead of going shorter?

      1. Curious Cat*

        Yes – this is what I was going to mention. If it’s possible to get them to narrow into the ankle that’d solve your problem and the more fitted look is a pretty “in” style right now.

    2. SoCalHR*

      The ankle cropped look is still totally in (although I don’t totally get it), so especially in summer you probably could get away with the “flood” type look – take a look at Ann Taylor/Gap’s website or something similar, I think you’ll see what I mean.

    3. AMPG*

      It sounds like the seamstress hemmed them for heels, not understanding that you needed them hemmed for flats. Get them taken up another half inch and you’ll be fine.

    4. Competent Commenter*

      All really helpful advice. Thanks! I really like the idea of tapering them, although I have to think about how that will work when I wear these in the winter. These are all black slacks, most of them in the yoga pants for work style, so visually they work all year.

      And may I just say that yoga pants, and all other slacks that have the smooth, wide, elastic tops and are of stretchy material, are so awesome. SO much more comfortable for sitting in all day at work, and they look so much better under my shirts. I am so grateful that these are a thing!

      1. Friday afternoon fever*

        Sometimes I cuff my pants shorter by folding up the hem inside (instead of rolling the cuff up outside like you might do with jeans). It’s not a particularly sophisticated solution, but you can’t tell the pants are cuffed and it will get you through the day without tripping

    5. Hem dilemma*

      I want someone to develop modular hems, maybe using some kind of interior hook or Velcro system, so you can have pants that you can covert the length based on whether you are wearing heeled shoes or flats….

  76. T3k*

    Well, going on 4.5 months of unemployment. I had 2 interviews this week: one for a job I was meh about and one that I really would like. Unfortunately, they changed the latter so now it’s back to the drawing board. To top it off, everytime I get rejected I go on a job application frenzy and I accidentally applied a second time for a position I applied to last week. They completely changed their job page which meant I had to create an entirely new account and I panicked and thought that my last application got lost in cyberspace, ugh. That HR recruiter must be annoyed with me now (I worked there before and had messaged her several days beforehand asking about other positions prior to seeing the job posting I applied to twice now).

    1. Buu*

      They may not have even noticed if they just switched systems. If you’re worried about it, create a speadsheet with the name of places you applied, the position, job description and a link to their site. If you’re not sure about a job go check the spreadsheet.

  77. Thosetaxreturnswontfilethemselves*

    Hey guy! I need some advice about one of my mangers; TLDR: My boss is mad that I’m busy at work and can’t drop everything for him.

    Background – I work exclusively on his time sensitive projects 4X a year for 2-3 weeks. This requires some overtime but nothing excessive. The majority of this overtime is due to his inability to manage a team. As an example, me and the team will sit in our office’s while he’s in a meeting with “the boss” only to tell us to go home immediately following that conversation. So I stay until 7pm for no reason.

    His work is important but we are assigned work by another manager during this time, work that if we fall behind on we have to stay late/work weekends to complete by a hard deadline. I will be working 55-60 hours from now until August.

    My problem – sometimes his work bleeds into a third week. When it does, this causes a delay/more stress around my other work. He knows about this other work and spends 2-3 hours every week talking about our assignments with the managers and the “big boss”.

    He seems to get very hurt, upset if I can’t drop everything to have additional “follow up” talks or just chit chat. This morning he asked when I would have time to go over some changes he made, and I suggested August and he was NOT happy at my answer. I then asked him when we’d like to have the conversation, and he shrugged and walked away.

    Guys I’m tired and stressed.

  78. AMT*

    My wife is a senior editor at an academic publishing company — basically, she commissions textbooks for a living. She’s been looking to get out of her dysfunctional company for a while, and hopefully get out of academic publishing (or possibly publishing in general). We’ve been having trouble finding opportunities that she’s qualified for outside academic publishing. Does anyone have experience transitioning from academic editor to [something else] editor, or from a publishing career to a role outside of publishing altogether? Any tips for the job search?

    1. KX*

      Could she move into Content Something for a company making digital products that are content heavy? All that material comes from somewhere, and requires sourcing and curating and distribution. It could be a transition to a new industry, and then other roles.

  79. WynonaEarp*

    I am in a leadership role with five direct reports. One of them is very anxious. We had a situation last week that went poorly and now there is a company wide call for leadership to address what happened/fixes/future prep. He asked me if he could listen to the call. I felt that was really inappropriate – I was surprised he even asked! I explained that we have a set up for the flow of information and I’ll communicate with him after. I’m just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this? Or am I too strict? I feel like I worked hard to get where I am and if he just gets to jump in then what was the point for me?

    1. SoSo*

      It sounds like he’s overstepping his bounds. I mean, I would love to sit in on some of the high level meetings with our directors and VPs when it’s a juicy topic, but it’s really none of my business to do so and it would be incredibly inappropriate for me to even ask. If its a leadership call and he’s not leadership, he has no business trying to “listen in” or trying to insert himself into the process. You did the right thing by declining and reiterating that you have a plan in place for communicating the decisions.

    2. Long Time Fed*

      It’s not wrong for someone to want to listen in and experience higher level discussions. I don’t think the request was inappropriate.

      I’m a mid-level manager. There have been many, many times I’ve been invited by my supervisor to listen in quietly on a meeting.

    3. LCL*

      We have certain technical processes that are recorded. We expect that in the event something bad happens, upper management that normally wouldn’t be involved would have access to the recordings. If whatever the something bad that happened was bad enough to get UM involved, this is a normal request and a normal way to do it. Of course you still want to advocate for your group as much as possible; when UM jumps into these things they usually lack context and draw very negative conclusions. So your advocacy here is good, but focus on interpreting for UM and repping your group, not how UM got the information.

    4. BRR*

      Unless there is some information being left out, I don’t think it’s inappropriate that he asked. That doesn’t mean he can participate, only that it wasn’t inappropriate to ask.

    5. Courageous cat*

      I think this depends so, so much on the company that it’s impossible to say. In some companies what he did would be overstepping, and in some it would be totally normal. You be the best judge of it, but in my past companies, listening to a conference call (especially if it involves something he did) wouldn’t have anything to do with jumping in, or getting a managerial privilege you worked hard to get. It sounds more pragmatic than anything.

      1. WynonaEarp*

        I should have been more clear. The situation that happened didn’t involve him explicitly. It happened at our site and it was a big issue but it wasn’t anything he did or was personally involved in and I did end up telling him exactly what happened during the call because as soon as I opened my office door he was there asking for details. He is very anxious and I think this set him off but I also felt he was acting really inappropriately. Some of the other staff even asked me why he was acting like that.

  80. LGC*

    Well, I just said something hilariously stupid. (It wasn’t actually funny. It was kind of embarrassing, actually.)

    My new employee had his home burglarized last week (during his first week here no less). And then he had a mishap with getting registered for something else. So he already missed a LOT of time.

    Anyway, I was heading out yesterday and blurted out, “I’ll see you tomorrow, hopefully!” WHOOPS.

    (But seriously, he’s been through a lot the past week, which might be throwing him off his game.)

    1. Nanc*

      Oh the poor guy! He’s practically living a country/western song. Sometimes you’re the windshield, sometimes you’re the bug.
      When you’ve reached rock bottom there’s two ways to go–straight up or sideways.

      I’m sure he understands you were kidding, but if you’re concerned just mention that you aren’t concerned about the time he missed and you hope life goes smoother in the next week.

      1. LGC*

        I mean, at least he laughed, so I’m pretty sure he knows that I wasn’t trying to insult him! (I was super apologetic and said that I misspoke – because I really didn’t mean to say that!)

        But seriously, I was a little concerned about his attendance because…he hasn’t been in. (Like, this is his second week and he’s missed half the days he was scheduled, and we needed to call him for a couple of those. He had my contact information.) You’re right that this is basically a country western song – I left out some more specific details, but it’s been a tragicomedy!

        He’s a nice guy, and picked up on the basics fast. So I was a little annoyed, but given what he’s been through I don’t want him to be fired.

        1. Courageous cat*

          I think “he’s missed half the days he was scheduled, and we needed to call him for a couple of those. He had my contact information.” is a much more serious thing than you’re implying in these comments. This could easily be a fireable offense at my company, *especially* when you’re new and haven’t proven yourself yet.

          1. LGC*

            This is a really late reply, so I don’t know if you’ll see this – to go into more detail (and possibly to reveal a lot of information about myself): you’re right in general. There’s some more context, though:

            – I’m a project manager (i.e., floor supervisor) at a social enterprise for people with disabilities. I don’t have direct hiring or firing authority.
            – We generally get a lot of disadvantaged individuals in multiple forms, including those who are not up on professional norms.
            – I am…not made aware of what my employees are going through before onboarding. (This is extremely frustrating, but that’s for another thread.)
            – I’m also prone to using minimizing language, as you’ve noticed. When I said “a little concerned,” it was more like, “very concerned, but saying that would make me look like a jerk.”

            So, basically, because of the function of our company and because he had a relatively traumatic experience, we did give him another chance. Part of my guilt at the top of the thread was that it was a gaffe – I accidentally said what I was thinking out loud! (He did show up, and I’m hoping he continues to.)

    2. Thlayli*

      Totally on a tangent here – do Americans not use the word burgled? From context I’m assuming that’s what you meant by burglarized. (And from the z I’m assuming you’re American).

      1. Someone else*

        We use both, but buglarized has been much more common in the US since the 50s-ish. They’re equivalent, though.

          1. LGC*

            By the way, yeah, I’m American – honestly it wouldn’t have occurred to me to use “burgled” ever, but that’s just my preference.

  81. Laura H.*

    I’m happily (albeit under-) employed at a retail shop where I work part time and I live with my folks. I have Cerebral Palsy- I cannot drive and thus rely on public transport on weekday mornings and the folks on the afternoon trips home and weekends to and from. There is a location closer to my house that opened last year- I’m being pressured (begrudgingly rightly) by my folks to get transferred.

    I cannot transfer unless there is an open position. I accept that- the folks however don’t seem to grasp that concept and want me to go and let the local manager know of my situation.

    In some cases yes asking is how things get done and requests, but in others, procedure is procedure.

    If I do something, I think I’d talk to my current management and see if they can help me get the transfer (If I have to “demote” to seasonal- I’m ok with that) But I don’t want too much special consideration… because I’ve had “you’re no different than anyone else, you’re just as smart, just as capable etc.” propelled at me from when I was young and now I’m being hit with “use your differing situation to your advantage”

    I’m more of a procedure is procedure person anyway and I honestly also don’t want anyone using any of their capital on me. I do need a transfer but… not at that cost to someone else.

    Advice?

    1. Ali G*

      There’s no reason not to ask. At the very least if you ask and the answer is “there aren’t any open positions” you can let them know you are interested in transferring when there is an open position. Then you can tell your parents that. You tried, but the answer is “not right now.”
      Are there other options closer to home you could look into?

      1. Laura H.*

        I’ve done that. But… again they don’t seem to get it.

        But from my management, they’ve told me that the moment an applicable transfer position opens, they’ll let me know ASAP. And I trust that they mean it. (3 years working there for me.)

        And I am looking at other places but mostly half-heartedly- several of the local positions with other companies have hours where the public transit doesn’t run- so it still doesn’t solve my other issue.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          What are their reasons for wanting you to transfer? Is it inconvenient for them? Is the gas and wear-and-tear on the car getting to be too much? Does your current job line up poorly with their schedules? If it’s just, “We don’t want to drive an extra five minutes,” then I would push back, but if it’s, “We’re driving 45 minutes out of our way,” then I think it’s worth asking again. Think of it like exploring a shorter commute, which plenty of people do.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      There’s nothing wrong with asking for an accommodation if you feel like you need it. And there’s nothing wrong with declining to ask for it if you don’t feel that way. If you don’t want to push for it, I’d just tell the manager that you’re interested when an opportunity comes up, tell your parents you’ve done all you can do at this time, and wait for an opening.

    3. Middle School Teacher*

      I think I would just talk to your manager and say “since the new location is so much closer to home, I would love to be considered for a transfer if a position opens up. I understand it may not be immediately but I hope you’ll keep me in mind!” And then leave it there.

    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      In terms of your parents, they need to chill a bit. Just because you live with them, just because you have a disability does not mean they get to control you. Recommend Captain Awkward.

    5. Caroline_Herschel*

      I generally agree with all the advice here – you should do whatever you’re comfortable with! It sounds like you’ve already done what makes sense to you here – talking with your managers.

      Not specifically relevant to this individual situation – but I did want to add a little to the end part of your comment about special consideration and using your situation to your advantage. I also have cerebral palsy, and have struggled a lot with some of the same narratives. I’d push back a little on the idea that by asking for accommodations or changes, you’re unfairly using your situation to your advantage. This is where I’ve landed on it: everyone has different needs to make jobs successful for them, even people without something like CP – they may need a boss who gives written instructions, or additional time to process things, or someone to bounce ideas off of. It’s up to (good) managers to decide whether those are things they can reasonably provide or not. Just because some of my needs for making a job successful or comfortable for me are related to my physical environment, commute, etc doesn’t mean that I’m somehow manipulating the system. Also, I’ve found that many workplace procedures aren’t naturally equipped to deal with situations regarding physical limitations, not out of malice but out of ignorance. Sometimes even just mentioning something makes space in the process for changes that might benefit you, without anyone spending a lot of capital.

      I’ve been very fortunate to have excellent managers who seem to be on board with this, and I know that’s not the case for everyone. And you may decide that this doesn’t apply to your situation at all! Just wanted to throw in my experience because it felt similar :)

    6. Thlayli*

      I think you’re thinking of this as asking for special treatment but it’s really not. It’s a totally normal thing for able bodied people to ask to transfer locations if it suits them better. As you said there may not be a position right away – but at least they can put you on the waiting list!

    7. ..Kat..*

      Can you ask whether an employee at your preferred store would like to trade with you. I.e., they would rather work at the store you now work at?

  82. Decima Dewey*

    We had some drama at my library branch yesterday. For several months, we’ve had a part-time, Matthias, who wasn’t working out at another branch. I was told to watch out for attendance issues. I found him pleasant to work with, eager to go to trainings. So far, so good.

    Then we got our new branch manager, Mr. Lastname. Matthias and Mr. Lastname are all about respect, and Mr. Lastname has been told that there are attendance issues involving all staff except our guard, Fergus, and me. We are both at the branch on time and do our jobs. Then Matthias and Mr. Lastname began clashing. Mr. Lastname would send an email regarding Matthias’s lateness. Because I am Mr. Lastname’s second in command, I get cc’ed on these emails. In return, Matthias would send scorching emails about Mr. Lastname and the Library Higher Ups as well. Matthias also vented to me about his previous branch, making it sound like a textbook definition of a hostile workplace environment. He also vented to me about Grandboss. I listened, tried to hint that there were reasons for things he perceived as against him. In retrospect, this should have raised red flags with me.

    Except I came to find that, when Matthias is angry about something, his memory becomes selective. As in he neglected to tell me he’d called his manager at the previous branch a “white b*tch”. FWIW he never called me a “white b*tch”. And when he vented about Grandboss, Matthias neglected to mention that he’d hung up on Grandboss, after threatening to sue her.

    So after the latest scorching email, Grandboss said she was coming to our branch to meet with Matthias. Matthias emailed her saying he didn’t “feel safe” alone with her. (Grandboss is a good kick butt and take names boss, but not literally!). Grandboss replied that Mr. Lastname would be present, as would the Area Guard Supervisor, for security purposes.

    So Grandboss, Mr. Lastname, Matthias, and Area Guard Supervisor go into a meeting in our workroom. A long meeting. Area Guard Supervisor came out and asked Fergus to come into the workroom for additional security support. Then Fergus and Area Guard Supervisor escorted Matthias out of the branch.

    Apparently, in the meeting, Matthias insulted Grandboss some 20 times, and threatened her. What happens next is up to Library HR, who were the ones to say that Matthias had to leave the branch at once.

    Another case of there wasn’t a problem until there was one. And another reason I really really don’t want to manage people.

    1. WellRed*

      But, it sounds like there WAS a problem and the problem is Matthias to start and finish with a side helping of ineffective HR and a dollop of bad management.

    2. Temperance*

      It sounds like there was a huge problem that they tried to rugsweep things, actually. Matthias sounds like a grade-A tool; on what planet can you call your boss a “white bitch” and get away with it?

    3. Girl friday*

      I always say you can’t fix a bad hire with good management but wow. It sounds like management actually handled everything properly, including you!

  83. savannnah*

    I need advice about reaching back out to a potential employer. My pervious boss, who I am close with and still collaboration on research with, made a network connection with a very influential leader in our field to discuss potential work opportunities on the west coast (where I now am and am looking for full time work in a very specialized field) I had two calls with the network connection and then flew down to SF to meet with her and discuss possible options- the headhunter who is affiliated with her company paid for my flight. She is really lovely and we had a great connection and she seems genuinely interested in my career and published work so far and we discussed a few options, not limited to her own company but also more broadly on the west coast. She emailed my packet (CV, publications) last Friday to 2 teams who work under her and one team who she collaborates with often and asked them to review my work and CV and get in touch with me prior to our professional conference next week so we can set up some face to face time. Two of the teams have reached out to me but one of them, who works under her and the one I would like to pursue the most, has not and I am wondering if I can reach out to them or if I should let her know they haven’t contacted me yet. Our conference is very busy and at the end of next week so I don’t want to miss them but I also don’t want to come across as pushy and also don’t want to take up more of her time as she’s been very generous given her schedule.

  84. writelhd*

    I work adjacent to a department that has been on-and-off dysfunctional since it started. I keep thinking I can fix it, but that’s hubris of course. The manager just does not communicate well to his employees. There’s a little bit of cliquishness and there’s been a lot of turnover. The employees don’t always communicate great to the manager either, mostly because he can be intimidating, he’s not very clear, yet he has super high expectations, and the systems we use to wrangle a complicated product for some pretty high-maintenance customers are also pretty complex and he keeps changing them…so I feel like no one ever knows what to do, but they sit around just wondering instead of asking the manager, meanwhile the manager sits around being angry that nobody’s doing anything…I don’t understand why these people don’t just communicate with each other! I keep trying to help by checking in with everyone on details I need or on things that I see aren’t being followed up on, and setting the example on my part by communicating well, but I just interface with them on some key things and otherwise it’s not my circus not my monkeys, as much as part of me wishes I could just fix this circus.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I just left a place like that. You can’t fix it, and trying to will just make you nuts.

    2. Leela*

      I think there’s a much higher onus on the manager to communicate and fix the issues that are hindering communication. In an ideal world employees would come to their manager with something like this but if he’s intimidating and unclear that puts a lot of pressure on them to not bother, especially considering that he’s in a position to make their work lives very difficult when it already sounds like it isn’t great. If the whole team isn’t communicating with him this strikes me much more as a problem with a manager, because it doesn’t sound like it’s going to go well if they do communicate with him and makes me wonder if they haven’t already tried and given up because it’s so pointless.

  85. Ali G*

    Just looking for good vibes! I had a great phone screen with HR on Tuesday for a job I really want. She told me she is definitely recommending me for next steps, but it might take a while because they just hired a new CEO. He is the ultimate decider and he doesn’t start until August (this job reports to him).
    Of course I am still applying other places, but this job has everything I want – good commute, people I know and respect (and know me), important work, good salary (yes the HR person TOLD ME the salary!).
    It’s hard to focus on my part time gig because I keep wanting to just get to the next step already!!

    1. Epocene*

      Congrats! Hope it all turns out :) And don’t be too hard on yourself for being distracted!

  86. DGA*

    Alright commentariat I need your help.

    So I got fired by my work. But the circumstances I’m finding hard to describe, especially when I’m inevitably asked by future interviews. Basically, I made a mistake, but the tool I’d normally use to prevent that mistake was offline due to maintenance at the time, so I consulted my shift lead and they agreed with me. There was another incident where there was a tool failure that lead to me making an error, and I was able to replicate it for my boss and show him, but ultimately my reasons weren’t wanted or taken into account before any decisionmaking.

    This place was so dysfunctional that despite the short-term stress my biggest feeling right now is overwhelmingly one of relief, so I’m actually not that upset, but I do have to get another job and I’m struggling with how to describe this.

    Ideally I’d want to be able to say what I learned from the situation and how it’s not going to be any issue going forward. But what I really learned was “don’t work for an organization that punishes first and ask what happened second, and has a culture of throwing people under the bus” and that just comes off as sour grapes, not the kind of thing I want to say! On the other hand, I’m not sure what else you can call it when you’ve consulted your shift lead and they signed off on your plan, and you were fired for it anyway, or when rampant tool failures and lack of training sabotaged your attempts to perform quality work in general.

    1. NaoNao*

      Maybe something like “a small, routine error I made was compounded by a failsafe tool being offline, and while my supervisor agreed to the steps I took to correct it, ultimately the company came to a decision to let me go”

      To make sure you don’t get thrown under the bus, ask about:

      Company culture

      Training documents, learning curve expectations, training classes

      How much decision making powers the role has

      What does the company do when a mistake occurs due to situations beyond the employees’ control? (Something like that)

  87. Beth Jacobs*

    I had a job interview scheduled for Thursday morning. Well, Wednesday night, I started throwing up real bad. I haven’t been this sick since childhood, I vomited six times through the night! Around 3 am, it became clear to me that there’s no way I can drag myself to an interview so I emailed the hiring manager who had set up the interview that I’m really sorry but I’m sick and that I’m available any time next week. I think it’s better to call for things like this, but since the interview was scheduled for 9 am I was worried I might not reach anyone in time. Anyways, she emailed me back with a date and time for next week and I confirmed.

    How much should I acknowledge their inconvenience in the interview? I do feel bad, especially since the panel has 5 interviewers (that’s actually not weird, they’re hiring for two similar roles on different teams, so they have people from both). But I also don’t want the focus of the interview to be on the rescheduling. Can someone suggest some wording?

    I still can’t believe how bad the timing for this was! Not sure if it’s food poisoning or a virus, but how did it manage to happen at the worst possible time?!

    1. AMPG*

      “Great to meet you! Thanks again for your flexibility in rescheduling. Food poisoning has the worst timing!” And then change the subject immediately.

    2. CurrentlyLooking*

      I would suggest thanking them for rescheduling (as opposed to apologizing – it is less awkward for the other person because they can say “you are welcome” instead of “it wasn’t a problem” when it might have been.)

      “Thank you so much for rescheduling my interview. I appreciate your flexibility.”

    3. Murphy*

      Mention it briefly to acknowledge you’re aware of the inconvenience, but don’t dwell on it. No one reasonable would hold this against you. And I agree with the above suggestions to thank them for being flexible, rather than to apologize for something you couldn’t control.

    4. CBE*

      Just thank them for rescheduling when you were ill and move on with the interview. Definitely don’t give them details of the illness!

    5. Beth Jacobs*

      Thanks for all the input everyone! I’m going to go with a thank you in a single sentence :)

  88. CurrentlyLooking*

    Advice to HR people:

    Please don’t send rejection emails on Sunday.

    Job searching is soul destroying enough so please wait until Monday.

    2. Not All Who Wander*

      Really? I’d much rather know the second they know. Let me move on as soon as possible please rather than leaving me hanging!

    3. BRR*

      I think the consensus here in the past has been that people have a really broad spectrum of preferences for rejections.

  89. matcha123*

    I am late to this, but after the napping question last week, I wanted to ask what you all consider napping at work.
    I work in Japan and I and many of my coworkers nod off at our desks. Some people seem to be out for 5 to 15 minutes, others (myself) nod off while working or concentrating and wake up 5 seconds to 1 minute later.
    Would my nodding off be considered ‘napping’ to you guys, or are you picturing real 20 minute naps with snoring and drooling? Along with that, napping at your desk during your lunch break. A lot of posters seemed to hate how it appeared to others. I know I’m in a different country, but, if customers aren’t coming in, why would a nap at your desk during your lunch break seem bad? To add, we all have a 1 hour lunch break and that’s pretty uniform over here.

    To add again, when I worked at a library in the US, staff had a break room, and people napped and prayed there (a number of Muslim coworkers) and no one cared. I know it varies by region, so if you could add your region, too, that would help me get a picture of the places to avoid when I move back!

    1. Beth Jacobs*

      Honestly, I think that if you (and your coworkers) are nodding off at your desks regularly, you’re severely sleep deprived. The human body doesn’t really do that unless you a) are completely exhausted b) have a sleep disorder. I know the Japanese work culture is insane, but is there any way you could get more sleep at night and on the weekends?

      If I saw a coworker asleep at their desk, I’d be a bit concerned whether they’re okay (I might even suspect diabetic coma). For the record, I’m in continental Europe.

      1. matcha123*

        In my case I am exhausted and haven’t slept well since moving here years ago. The sun comes up at 4am!! in Tokyo, which also sucks. But my job deals with a lot of boring translation.
        I notice that people in the US are able to browse a lot of websites or even do online shopping, which is pretty unheard of here. I get up to stretch, refill my water bottle, etc. every hour or so.
        What kind of work do you do that keeps you wake and alert all day? Do you/can you browse facebook (not allowed at my place) or various fun websites? Can you walk over to a coworker and chat for some amount of time?
        Japanese work culture isn’t really insane, it seems like that from the outside. But it’s quite hard to fire full-time workers and many companies move slowly. My office is very good about pushing people to take time off. At the same time, staring at spreadsheets or documents is sooo boring. I’ve seen people stare at a the same screen for at least an hour without typing anything. Even during busy periods, I catch myself dozing off multiple times throughout the day…
        I’ve heard that Germany is pretty strict about work during work hours and leaving on the dot at the end of the day…

        1. Becky*

          Can you use headphones? When I’m doing rote work that doesn’t requires attention but not in depth mental processing I like to listen to audio books.

          1. matcha123*

            Listening to music on a radio or with headphones is a HUGE no-no here. There may be some foreign companies that are open to it, but if I started listening to music at work I’d get a severe talking-down and possibly fired.

        2. Beth Jacobs*

          I’m a paralegal. I don’t shop or browse the Internet since I’m required to fill out a time sheet every day and though I can log the occasional watercooler conversation as “administration” or “know how”, I try to have as many client billable hours as possible. My work is also pretty varied and I enjoy it.

          I listen to music as a background (for translation, I would recommend classical music – I can’t write if someone is shouting words into my ears in a pop song). I try to do the most difficult work when I feel alert and leave emails and routine work for when I’m tired. If I really can’t concentrate, I go make myself a coffee and exchange five minutes od pleasantries in the break room.

          It is true however, that I don’t work much overtime and feel decently rested most of the time. Waking up at 4 am sounds horrible! Have you considered isolation blinds? There are kinds meant for people who work nights.

          1. Beth Jacobs*

            I do remember a job that I napped at though – I worked as a hostel receptionist during high school and the shifts were 7-7, both days and nights. I definitely dozed into a light sleep on the night shift more than once! But then again, there wasn’t much work to do unless I was attending to a guest, so I don’t feel bad about it. The way our workspace was set up, I think it might have been tacitly approved (reclining chair, blanket, loud buzzer on entrance after 10 pm).

          2. matcha123*

            Fortunately I don’t wake up that early every day, but now that it’s summer, the sun is pretty much knocking at my window at 4am. I don’t have blinds like that, but I do sleep with an eye mask on and use 3 alarms set at slightly different times to wake up in the morning.

        3. asleep or maybe dead*

          I felt I had the duty to leave a comment in this thread. This is how my user name came to be.
          I can relate to a lot of what you mentioned. My main weapons are caffeine, music, fidgeting, chewing, and walking, whichever is more feasible.

      2. MissGirl*

        I wouldn’t say that. I can nod off fairly easily in a warm room and bored mind. Especially after lunch. I’ve learned some people can’t fall asleep sitting up if they’re totally exhausted but other people can much more easily.

    2. Ursula*

      I used to live in Japan this is culturally normal the idea that (though I personally think the Japanese system is ridiculous) it shows you are working hard if you are at your desk even if you are sleeping (in fact it shows you must be working hard or you wouldn’t be so sleepy all the time) or doing nothing whereas being efficient and finishing your work early and going home makes you look lazy (and Japan is supposed to be efficient).

      I went to University in Japan and always had Japanese roommates (there were foreign dorms where English was spoken but they had few spaces and I speak Japanese so it wasn’t a problem). I always got A’s so I did well but my routine on a Saturday would be this; get up at 10am. Spend an hour having a shower and getting dressed, do my homework/essays etc. Have Lunch, finish work. I’d be done by about 3pm on a Saturday and have the evening and Sunday free. Whereas my roommates would get up much earlier than me, sleep on their desk and end up starting work at about the same time as me (but I was better rested) and go a lot slower. They would then express amazement and decide I was really clever because I could finish much quicker than them (no I just got a good night’s sleep and then sat down and focused). This really amazed me because I always thought the Japanese were supposed to be efficient people but they have this idea if you do not seem to be working hard you are not.

      1. matcha123*

        This is basically Japanese culture here! My office circulates newspapers, and we are expected to read or skim them. I do read them in my down time or when I need to take a break. But I’ll doze off while reading an article. Honestly, I think being hyperfocused on my work leads me to burning a lot of mental energy and I shut down.
        I should add that due to our office following government recommendations, the air conditioning in our office is set to about 82 degrees (28C). We spend a lot of time fanning ourselves. I can’t use my USB fan because we need permission to plug outside USBs into our computers.
        The caffeine from a hot cup of coffee would give me a shot of energy, but then I’d be sweating even more. Oh well, Japan gets to say that they’ve reduced emissions, so it’s all cool! /s

        1. Mephyle*

          “The caffeine from a hot cup of coffee would give me a shot of energy, but then I’d be sweating even more.”
          What about iced coffee?

    3. anycat*

      i nap at work .. but then again i play the pregnancy card. we have a health room that mom’s have priority over, so as long as it’s not booked i’ll head in with a blanket and nap on the recliner.

    4. Thlayli*

      I have read that in Japan there is a culture of working so hard you fall asleep at your desk from exhaustion. That’s not the culture in the West. It’s generally expected in western countries that people have sufficient downtime outside of work to get enough sleep. So when someone has a nap at work it’s not interpreted as them being tired from working really hard. It’s usually interpreted as them being lazy and not doing their job, or being out partying too much causing them not to get enough sleep so napping in work would mean they are prioritising partying over work.

      In reality of course there are other reasons people do nap at work in the West (like an early commute to avoid the traffic or a medical issue), but usually the default assumption will be they are being lazy and not working.

      It’s really a totally different working culture you’re dealing with.

      FYI if you are so exhausted you are falling asleep for a few seconds that’s called “microsleeps” and is a sign of severe sleep deprivation. According to what I’ve read the culture of work till you drop is having severe ill effects on many workers in Japan.

      1. matcha123*

        What amount of time would you consider napping, though? This is the first time I’ve heard of ‘microsleeps.’ Now that I think about it, I’ve been dozing off like this since high school. On the weekends I easily sleep until 12 noon or later.
        I am pretty sure my old office in the US was fine with breaktime naps in our breakroom (locked, no windows, away from patrons). Finding an office culture like that would be a huge plus. I eat smaller meals at lunch and try to do 5 – 10 minutes of shut-eye. Just that alone helps me reenergize.

        1. Thlayli*

          I’ve never heard of a work culture in the West where it’s acceotanle to nap at work, other then jobs where you have to do 16+ hour shifts. Maybe if you hide in the toilet? I think the word nap refers to any amount of time you are asleep outside of night time sleep. Involuntary mocrosleeps like you’ve described aren’t really naps though because you don’t get to actually sleep.

          Personally I wouldn’t even bother with a 10 min nap – it takes me a good hour to fall asleep. So I’m probably not the best judge on what length of nap time is acceptable. If I saw a colleague napping I’d be worried about them as it’s so unlikely.

        2. Thlayli*

          If you have been dozing off like this all your life I would actually suggest you talk to a professional. That’s dangerous for driving and so on. You could he dozing at the wheel and not even realise.

          1. matcha123*

            I don’t drive and I’ve never had a driver’s license, so no problem there! Basically this only happens when I am seated at my desk, doing nothing except staring at words on a paper trying to figure out how to turn them into halfway acceptable English. I might be stuck on a sentence for over an hour because nothing I write sounds decent and I have to search various websites for related source materials.

            I would use one of those balance balls as a chair or a standing desk if they were allowed, but those are also no-nos.

          1. matcha123*

            Probably 4.5 – 5 hours. I’ve tried to push my bedtime earlier. Even if I were to get in bed at 11pm, I wouldn’t be able to get to sleep for another hour or two. My fear of sleeping through my alarm and just being alone probably means I don’t get a good night’s sleep. I’ve tried to stretch before bed, no TV or computer an hour or 2 before I go to bed. Listening to relaxing sounds, etc.

            1. Beth Jacobs*

              5 hours for years is severe sleep deprivation. The sleep hygiene habits you mentioned are great (and I would also add regular exercise to the list), but if it’s still not working, you need to take action now: that little sleep is seriously dangerous. You need to see a doctor. There’s no shame in using sleeping pills if you need them.

              The reason you’re falling asleep at work isn’t boredom: it’s literally the fact you’re getting 40% less sleep than you need!

        4. Someone else*

          If you are definitely sleeping, to me that’s a “nap at work” and would be a no go unless you were on an official break and the office has a nap room or nap pods.

          Microsleep is a term you hear a lot in sleep science, and as indicated above, are usually indicative of either extreme sleep deprivation or a sleep disorder. Under normal circumstances, people shouldn’t fall asleep for 1-12 seconds only. It usually happens when you see someone doing the drifting-head-bob-wait-now-I’m-awake motion, but for some people it’s more subtle and they might not even realize they did fall asleep for 2 seconds (or however few seconds).

          1. matcha123*

            When I do nod off, it typically happens like this:
            Stare at paper reading and re-reading difficult sentence > blink > “wake” myself up a few seconds later

            or

            Stare at paper reading and re-reading difficult sentence > Close tired, dry eyes > Think about sentence > “Wake” myself up a few seconds later

            I’m listening to everything around me, but a few times, I close my eyes and quickly fall into deep sleep and twitch myself awake. My coworker does the same, but for longer periods of time. I’m pretty sure she gets more sleep than I do, but she is looking at charts and numbers all day.

            1. Someone else*

              That does sound like microsleeps. If this is happening regularly, ie not when you’ve only slept 2-4 hours in the past 24, not when you’re jetlagged/adjusting to timezone differences, I recommend you consider getting a sleep study.

    5. Mad Baggins*

      For what it’s worth… if you are a participant on the “airplane” program, I wonder if your experience is indicative of Japanese work culture in general. As a former airplane myself (also did translation), I noticed many a kacho “recharging” at lunch or throughout the day. But now in my second post-airplane job (both very Japanese environments) I’ve rarely noticed people sleeping at their desks. Maybe during lunch break, or maybe it’s for so short a time that it looks like they’re concentrating (5 seconds??). Regardless, I’m sure there are plenty of websites you could go to that would count as “research” for translation and provide a good break (Wikipedia rabbit hole, or AAM for instance?).

  90. Leslie Knope*

    Admins who are no longer admins – how did you get out of your admin role?

    I’m an office manager and have worked as an admin assistant/office manager for the past 7 years. I would really love to NOT be an admin any more and am trying to figure out how I can achieve this. I’m likely moving to a new city within the next year and may try to make some kind of change when I look for a new job.

    I’m leaning towards project management as I do a good deal of this in my current position and feel it’s something I both enjoy and excel at. I also really like the financial aspect of my job (I manage all bookkeeping, A/R & A/P, invoicing, our entire budget process, etc.). I’ve looked into financial positions and so far everything that does not require an accounting/finance degree or CPA is very low paying in my new city. Project managers are paid well, however I feel like that is reach so I’m not sure what kind of titles I should keep a lookout for. Perhaps project specialist or coordinator? Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    1. AliceW*

      I started as an Admin Assistant. I quit the job and decided to temp so I could find something- anything else. It worked. I am in finance now. But I did have to start at the bottom, though I was able to move up quickly.

    2. SoSo*

      I’m in the long long process of transitioning out of admin work to the field I actually went to school for. I started as an admin, and have since moved into the first step of project management in a “Project Coordinator” role that has minimal admin duties. I’ve taken on some additional training and volunteer work outside of work that aligns with what I want to do, and that’s helped to get me some interviews so far. Good luck!

    3. foolofgrace*

      You could consider taking courses in project management. Even if you don’t go the whole route and get PMP certification, being able to put coursework on your resume could help.

    4. Epocene*

      I’m on this path too! If you’re looking for finance jobs without the certification, I recently got a job as a Contract Manager. This entails checking new contracts for agreeable terms, setting up budget spreadsheets, sending invoices etc. I definitely think project management is another great way to go!

      I’m finding it really hard to get out of the admin zone. I recently was given travel arrangement and phone answering responsibilities at my new job because I have experience in it but really I want to leave that all behind. I wish you the best of luck!! And definitely apply to job you’re not all the way qualified for, you never know what will work!

    5. JanetM*

      I asked to take a project management class. A week later, I was invited to move to the project management office, I moved 2-3 weeks after that (amazingly fast for my university), and I’ve been here for a bit more than a year.

      My circumstances were very different from yours; I’d been at the university for almost 23 years, and I was already known to upper administration. But it is possible. You might consider going for a certification; the Project Management International “Certified Associate in Project Management” doesn’t require previous project experience, just a certain number of hours of education.

  91. Laurelma_01!*

    I have a suggestion of items that the parents of college students need to discuss & go over with their kids that are incoming freshmen & what I need from them when hiring them as work studies:
    1 – give your child their social security card (I cannot use a copy)
    2 – teach your child how to take a proper phone message
    3 – talk to them about coming to work on time, and that they should call in if they can’t
    4 – if your child wants off a shift, they need to ask; they cannot just inform me that they are not coming in
    5 – explain how filing works, phone manners, etc. (I had talked to the students about this, one thought it was cut to answer the phone by saying, yeh!” Going over some basic admin responsibilities, etc.
    6 – talk to them about dress code …. no pajamas, clothing that flashes underwear
    7 – talk about attendance, etc.
    8 – discuss with them what your employer expects of you & why. Than talk about acceptable and unacceptable behavior of your direct reports if you are a supervisor.
    9 – talk to them about treating others with respect at work & what topics shouldn’t be discussed in the work environment. Yes this is a college, but you are working for 12 hours.
    10 – do your work before doing school work or playing on your cell phone. I do not to walk in and see a stack of copying and mail to go out, that’s been sitting there for an hour while you play on your cell phone
    11- turn off cell phone ringer & audio on your electronic devices
    I’m seeing students coming without any basic knowledge of work place norms. I assume some of the other readers

    Please discuss with your children the importance of professionalism on the job. I highly recommend that this discussion starts taking place on a regular basis, starting when they are in middle school through college. They are here to do a job, but if they don’t do it I will terminate them. There are other students out there looking.

    2. Perhaps perhaps*

      You are assuming the parents have these skills. Sadly, from what I’ve seen, a sizable part of the population is clueless about work norms.

    3. LibraryBug*

      Ooh make sure you cover “Students’ employment will not be discussed with parents.” I have gotten so many calls from parents about their child and, besides the fact that I can’t discuss it with them, it makes their child (my student employee) look really immature.

      1. Laurelma_01!*

        That is a big one. I had an aunt calling once, wanting to know the student’s work schedule. It’s a turn off to deal with the parents.

        Also, parent called informed me to tell me that I was required by law to accept a faxed copy of a social security card. I’ve got the list of penalties posted in the office, it helps. I might have faxed it back to the parent, to back up what I said. I’ve had students argue with me about it, Mom or Dad said …. I’ve gotten blunt and say unless I see the original, you’re got getting hired. I’ve had to give the students the web links to order a new social security card and/or birth certificate a few times every year. Parents refuse to give the documents up. Their children end up paying $20 – $50 for a new birth certificate, and they cannot start work until they come in with the documentation. They start work 1 – 2 weeks later because of it.

        1. LibraryBug*

          Part of me wonders if they’d act like this if it wasn’t on-campus employment. I think a lot of the time, that students and parents see on-campus jobs as an extension of classes. Parents try to pull the “well, I pay for their tuition” card and students don’t take it very seriously because school comes first and this isn’t a “real” job.

          1. Laurlema01!*

            True. I think this is a situation where bad habits need to be addressed & norms be taught. Also have had students tell their parents that they cannot get a work study job on campus, but they had one and got terminated, etc. I hear about those instances from my work studies, talking about others working for different supervisors. I’ve had other students that come in, great work ethic, take direction, listen, etc. We’ve hired students only to find out that they got fired from another work study position, for not showing up, etc.

        2. Ruth (US)*

          Wow. I haven’t had to deal with that at all, and I’ve hired a lot of student workers (many of them are living independently or are returning adults, which could be part of it). That sounds super frustrating for everyone involved.

    4. Ruth (US)*

      I’m not all that frustrated by students workers not knowing about workplace norms. I see myself as part of their education process, and I actually get a lot of satisfaction from mentoring them through the first part of their working lives. I do screen for soft skills to the extent that I can during interviews, and I go over all of our expectations explicitly on the student’s first day of work (to an extent that would probably be patronizing to someone who’s been in the workforce longer).

      1. Laurlema01!*

        True. I’ve had some great ones. Some I’ve been in touch with for years after they graduate. This summer hiring has made me feel negative about it. Not much is required, it’s quiet, they can do the daily responsibilities, than just work as the receptionist. Only the on-line classes made, limited walk in traffic. Free to do school work. Mine is canceling at the last minute on a regular basis.

        You’re right about the training is part of the educational process. But I also think when the behavior is bad enough that I have to talk to them about it, it continues and I decide to terminate. My boss will override me if it’s a pretty girl.

      2. Laurlema01!*

        I had one student use me for a reference without telling me for a job. I had terminated her for not showing up, got lazy. Opened up paper and threw the plastic band on the floor. Trash can right there. Wouldn’t pick up after herself. That issue has gotten worse the last two years. I have to remind them I’m not their mother.

        I didn’t reply to the emailed reference form. This upcoming year, my direct reports are coming back & they are great. This summer has been horrible.

      3. LibraryBug*

        I agree, my onboarding process for students is much more detailed about general workplace norms than if I was training a staff member. I want the students to succeed, not catch them doing something unprofessional. And I am usually honored to be a reference for them as they move on to “real” jobs.

        It can be a struggle to not be shocked at some answers or behaviors, though! And sometimes I do wonder, with all the information available about interviewing and working (like this blog), couldn’t they reasonably look into general workplace behavior ahead of time?

    5. Chaordic One*

      This sort of reminds me of when Dysfuncitonal Teapots, Ltd. made a conscious effort to increase the diversity of their interns. Many of the interns from the more diverse intern pool (not all) required quite a bit more hand-holding than those from the traditional intern pool. Sometimes it was awkward to explain what professional job norms were and the rationals behind them, but I think it was worth it and most of them did shape up after it was clear what was expected of them. But yeah, it blew a few minds.

    6. Cat Herder*

      They have to have the actual card? They can’t just give you the number? I’d be screwed, I haven’t seen my social security card in over thirty years. Literally.

  92. Work feels like jail*

    Not a question, just a vent.

    I work in an office in a professional level job with over 15 years of experience. I took a job 4 months ago that seemed fine but it’s a nightmare. I can barely move in my office because it’s so tiny (it’s, like 6’x6′). We own businesses all over the country so the majority of my work is done remotely and unless I have a meeting I can go all week without talking to anyone. Working from home is not allowed, we are required to be in our offices from 7:30am-4:30pm regardless of what we have going on. Most days I sit here bored of out my mind. The bathrooms are so filthy that I don’t use them so I now no longer drink water during the day.

    We don’t get stat holidays off, we are expected to be available weekends in case we get called in, there are no windows in the office side of the building, we’re only get 30 mins for lunch and we’re not allowed the leave the building in case we’re needed for something, the VP purposely doesn’t approve vacation time until the time has already passed so no one actually gets any time off. She works from home so we can’t even just go ask her in person for the time.

    I feel like I’m going crazy.

    1. Work feels like jail*

      And, they are not honoring the days off that I requested before I signed my offer letter. I already booked flights and I have never worked somewhere where they outright refuse to honor pre-employment terms. I’m beyond frustrated!

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Are they the type who are likely to fire you if you email the VP and say “as we agreed before I was hired, I’ll be on vacation next week” and just don’t show up?

      2. Darren*

        I’ve never heard of anyone not honouring pre-employment terms either but really this comes down to being very similar to pretty much any work condition changing in an unfavourable manner (nature of work, loss of remote working, salary) indicating this is not as was originally agreed, and then either letting it go (if you aren’t willing to lose the job over it) or forcing the issue (if you are willing to) by making it clear that you won’t work under these new conditions.

        You could just go on the holiday anyway but I’d recommend handling this the professional way so when you are talking to other companies post this event you can be clear and confident that you handled this professionally and that while regrettable the change in work conditions was such that you had to move on early. Although likely you’d leave this off your resume.

    2. BRR*

      Ugh that really sucks. What an awful place. This is by far not the point of things but why can the VP work from home and you can’t?

      1. Work feels like jail*

        I’m taking the time off regardless, it’s just up to them how they want to handle it. My husband makes 4x what I make so it’s not that I need this job for the money. I enjoy working and furthering my career. It’s just too bad that things are going this way here. Everyone who works here looks exhausted and lifeless, it’s heartbreaking!

        No one knows why the VP can work from home… different rules depending on your “importance” I guess?!

        1. BRR*

          My company also has rules and no exceptions. Except for the exceptions that happen all the time.

        2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          Yeah I think I’d be sure to take any personal items home before your vacation, just in case, but proceed with the attitude that “of course you will honour our agreement, this is just an innocent mistake on your part”. And start looking for a new job.

  93. Dealing with Angry Clients*

    CW: mentions child abuse

    Regular commenter going anonymous for this. I work with clients with disabilities. Generally, they have been great, but the other day,one raised their voice at me and it actually made me cry (after she left, thankfully). I am unusually sensitive to anger, and my counselor thinks it might be because growing up, my dad sometimes lost his temper over minor things, occasionally to the point where he got physical, at least with me.

    I am forever grateful that, overall, my family has always been awesome. Yet, I did grow up with some anger, and because I never really learned how to cope with it, whenever someone raises their voice, it makes me want to sink into a hole. When my client got upset the other day, I barely eked out anything helpful, and just called my supervisor.

    So the point of my rambling: Obviously I don’t want to reveal to my supervisors or coworkers why I’m so sensitive to people getting angry. Yet, should I say anything? How about in the future, either in this job or a future job? Even if I don’t ever work with clients again, I’m sure I’m going to encounter heated discussions or someone raising their voice.

    1. matcha123*

      For what it’s worth, I don’t think your reaction is strange. Growing up, I was on the receiving end of passive-aggressive comments and what could be considered emotional abuse, but yelling was something that rarely ever happened. When I saw my ex’s mom scream at him, I froze up! Loud, angry voices are generally ways to make the person on the other end feel intimidated.
      Could your boss or coworkers give you some advice on coping? I might also suggest a martial arts class if you have the time and money. I found that martial arts really helped me to slow down and process situations as they unfolded, without resorting to the fight/flight reaction.

    2. Nita*

      I feel like there’s nothing that extraordinary about getting emotional when a client yells at you, unless your reaction was really extreme and you sobbed for hours. So I don’t think you have to explain, unless you want to. In that case, a few words with your supervisor will be more than enough.

      As for the future… there’s a difference between someone raising their voice in general, and someone yelling *at* you, so is it still this difficult for you if you know the anger is not directed at you? If it just makes you upset when someone raises their voice, but you don’t start crying and can sort of control the reaction, I wouldn’t say anything. If you do react so strongly others can see that something’s wrong, maybe just have a quick explanation ready to use in the moment…

    3. Lumen*

      Feel anxiety and stress when someone shouts at us is not abnormal or oversensitive behavior. That’s why yelling happens: partly to release physiological pressure, but also to intimidate the person being yelled at. Your reaction is appropriate.

      In the moment, to control the surge of adrenaline, do what Navy SEALs and surgeons do: box/tactical breathing. You can search for that to find out more on how, but essentially it’s inhale for a count of 4, hold for 4, exhale for 4, hold for 4, repeat. This may help you get through the difficult encounter and make decisions based on information, rather than on a surge of fear.

      Afterward, if you need to cry or process, take a short break if possible and allow yourself to do so. I find writing things down very helpful to ‘step out’ of the emotional response a little and observe how I’m reacting with curiosity.

      For what it’s worth, I grew up with a lot of anger and and abuse also, and certain behaviors from other people set me off on a spiral that it took me a long time to understand. Kudos to you and your therapist for working on this.

    4. Rey*

      I don’t think you need to tell your supervisors or coworkers (at this job or any future job) about childhood physical or emotional abuse. If you felt like they needed an explanation, I would stick with as basic and abstract as possible that focuses on what you are not okay with (being yelled at by angry clients) and what you need when you experience this (a few minutes? to collect yourself).

      If you want to change the way that you react to being yelled at by angry people, let your counselor know about this. I don’t know what the possibilities are, but your counselor should be able to work with you to decide what works best for you.

    5. Thursday Next*

      I’m sorry about your childhood experiences with anger. I know from my own experience it can be really tough not to carry those experiences over into my adult interactions.

      I think what you describe is in the range of expected reactions to being yelled at, and you don’t need to disclose anything about your past to your supervisor that you don’t want to. It’s possible that your supervisor, or other coworkers, may have strategies for dealing with antagonistic clients that you could ask them to share with you.

    6. Thlayli*

      I don’t know if I’m understanding this correctly – it sounds like you’re saying a client raised their voice at you and you were so upset you were unable to do any more work for the rest of the day?

      If that is the correct reading of the situation then that seems like a very extreme reaction to me. It depends on how bad the “raised voice” was and the circumstances though.

      If someone bigger than me was yelling and screaming at me and using aggressive body language in a small space with no one around and I genuinely felt I was about to be physically attacked, I imagine I would be totally freaked out and unable to do much work for the next hour or two at least.

      On the other hand if someone just raised their voice a little in a large public space with no threatening body language, I probably wouldn’t even notice.

      Without knowing how bad the “raised voice” situation was it’s hard to say for sure, but it’s possible the way you reacted was on the extreme end of the scale. Which would probably indicate unresolved childhood trauma that would probably need counselling to resolve.

      1. Specialk9*

        They said they have a counselor, but I’m thinking maybe an experienced desensitization therapist.

    7. Friday afternoon fever*

      Hello. This is me, too. It’s probably got a lot to do with learned responses from your childhood — the concept of an “emotional flashback” where being yelled at now makes you feel like you did when you were a child being yelled at by your father. (Same.) I’ve burst into tears at a cash register when a customer started yelling. Please take or leave whatever you like here — but a few things I want to say based on my own experience —

      1) it is great that you’re in counseling; counseling has saved my life

      2) look into the concept of C-PTSD. It’s a scientifically validated form of PTSD (C – Complex) experienced by survivors of child abuse, sexual assault, etc. Reading about this concept, finding out I wasn’t alone or weird or messed up, having a framework to examine my emotions in a way that was very specific to my situation — I found it very empowering and healing. I’m reading “Complex PTSD: Surviving to Thriving” right now and I’m not big on self-help books, but it’s not a typical self-help book. I encourage you to read some excerpts

      3) you don’t have to explain any of the reasoning to your manager or coworkers. You can say “being yelled at / spoken to really aggressively causes an uncontrollable reaction in me” and leave it at that. That’s reasonable. Needing the rest of the day to recover is … it’s not ideal, but it’s what you need, and that’s okay. If you like, you could talk to your counselor about how to manage emotional reactions and de-escalate or help yourself out of it.

      It’s complicating that you work with a client population that may yell at you more often than clients without disabilities, where yelling would be unacceptable. So you may want to have a high-level discussion with your manager about a strategy for handling it if it happens again. It’s OK for this strategy to be “I will need a while and will tap you/coworker in to take over.” Perhaps there is a balance between what you need to do to perform your job fully & what you need to do to recover fully, and you could work towards that balance.

      4) you should not need to bring this up when interviewing for future jobs. If you work with a neurodiverse client population again, you may feel more comfortable addressing it head-on during on-boarding so that your manager is aware you’d need some time to collect yourself and can discuss how to handle that together. If you are not working with clients with disabilities, or with children, then nobody should be yelling at you, so no need to bring it up except in retrospect to say “hey, so and so treated me this way and that’s unacceptable”

      Good luck <3

  94. redbug34*

    Have a phone interview on Monday with a company I reeeeeally want to work for. I’ve been through five interviews already in this job hunt, (with other institutions, not this one) none leading to an offer so far, but I HAVE gotten direct, personal feedback from interviewers about how they liked me & thought I should keep applying. (Nice, but also frustrating.)

    But this place is everything I want. I’ve heard good, reliable things from other employees. This position would involve a raise for me, plus tuition remission and the ability to get an advanced degree, room for skill growth & promotion, and the job actually involves a little less than I do now.

    I’m trying not to psych myself out. I’m great on the phone, and I’m sure I can secure a second interview, but then I always seem to falter – any tips on how I can get that final punch in? I’m apparently not a terrible interviewee, just, not good enough, and this is the best opportunity I’ve gotten so far. I really want to bring my best.

    1. Curious Cat*

      Congrats on getting the interview! No big advice from me, only to just make sure in the second interview you’ve really reviewed all your materials, prepare as much as you can for questions you think they’ll ask and be sure to express your enthusiasm for the job! Good luck!

  95. Qwerty*

    Mentoring question:

    My workplace has a formal mentoring program in place that matches you with another employee that is more advanced in their career. I have signed up for this program, mostly because I was told that I should do so. However, now that I’ve been matched with someone I’m honestly at a loss as to what I’m supposed to be discussing with my mentor. I don’t have any specific issues in my current role that I need help working through. I am currently looking to get promoted, however, I have a good relationship with my manager so I feel that he is a much better resource for helping me work towards that promotion. I’m just not sure what value my mentor is supposed to provide that my manager would not provide.

    Any advice to best use this resource? In what ways have you found your mentor relationship to be productive? I don’t want to waste this opportunity, but I don’t know what to do.

    1. SoSo*

      While your manager might be the best resource for mentoring you towards that promotion, your other mentor could still help you in terms of general professional development and career advice. They may be able to provide you with some insight on additional training that’s good to have for your career track, they might be in the know about new opportunities, they could help you work through any problems or issues you’re facing, or they could even just help you out with your networking. Plus, your manager might not have the time to devote to a full mentoring relationship.

    2. Darren*

      We have a similar program at my work (that I proposed and managed to get setup), the intention is for it to be targeted at building specific skills.

      So for you with your intention to get promoted, you and your manager have no doubt already discussed various areas where you would need to improve in order to get this promotion. Your manager would then have passed this on to the person in change of doing the matches for the mentoring program and this person will have found someone that is considered extremely strong (or even an expert) in some or all of the skills you are looking to need development on.

      You would then discuss with your mentor the things you need to work on and work with them in building those skills, with them giving you the benefit of their experience in these areas.

      For example say you come off as being a little weak in time management, your mentor will be someone that has strong time management skills and will be able to work with you to share their own tips and tricks and well as tailor them to your workflow in order to develop this specific skill.

    3. Thlayli*

      Usually with these type of formal programs it’s up to your mentor to take the lead, not up to the mentee to decide what the should be asking for help on. Have you spoken to your mentor yet?

  96. AnonAndOn*

    I haven’t been on here in a while due to life, but here I am now. Still looking for the elusive, permanent full-time job, but am in a better position than I was the last time I checked in.

    Here’s my current issue: I feel patronized at my temp job as a front desk admin (I am far from a front desk type, but I am in no position to turn down work). People have explained to me how to send an Outlook email (I’ve used Outlook many times before) and they either butcher my name or forget it completely. I put up a sign with my name but was indirectly told to take it down. I get called “baby,” “sweetie,” “honey,” etc. by men (sometimes sexism is in play) and by older women (though some appear in my age range) who talk to me as if I’m their daughter or granddaughter (I think these women think I’m much younger than I am, though I’m starting to go gray). Sometimes I correct them (“Please don’t call me [pet name], I prefer [my name]”), but I don’t want to be seen as rude and dealing with power dynamics (if a high-level person does it) makes it challenging. It’d be nice if I didn’t take it personally, but it gets to me.

    Any advice on how to navigate this? I appreciate it!

    1. Becky*

      They’re the ones being rude by addressing you in a belittling/diminutive way. I would continue correcting them. When there are power dynamics in play (a higher level person) it might be a better strategy to say “Please call me Jane” with a smile. With those who you are closer in level to you might have more standing and honestly if they continue after being asked to stop address it directly. “I’ve requested you use Jane multiple times, yet you continue to use other terms of address, that needs to stop.”

    2. Auntie Social*

      “I’ll show you how to ABC if you promise to call me Sara (big smile).” It works—I have an unusual first name and sometimes people need to hear it twice.

    3. Mad Baggins*

      I often get asked if I go by Common Cutesy Nickname. “Only my mother calls me that, and you’re far too young to be my mother!” or “My father only calls me that when he’s mad at me! Can we stick with Baggins?” or some similar flattering or innocent turnaround might work for higher-ups.

  97. Sarah*

    I have been working at this particular company for about nine months now (I am in marketing.) About a few months in, I was put on a PIP. I was blindsided. I had been get a lot of great feedback from everyone around me including higher ups. All of my ideas were used and the program they had been trying to start for years was finally flourishing under my efforts. So I was definitely surprised but unsettled by some of her claims. She admitted one of them was probably untrue (she said I got in late and left early, but since I came in extremely early and she came in mid morning, she couldn’t be sure this was true, she just had a ‘feeling’) but she was adding it anyway. In the meeting with HR and her I asked to look over everything for a few days but was pressured to sign, as my supervisor was going on vacation.

    Fast forward another month or two. I am creating new programs, working hard to improve and got a lot of kudos. I was once again slapped with a PIP and told I wasn’t being innovative with my communications to clients. I took heed and sent a draft of a communication and then was told “I prefer you stick with what we have done before. Too much change confuses our clients.” This isn’t the first time my supervisor has been contradictory, and when pointed out, I am told I just need to improve. Now my PIP has ended and a decision has to be made. However, my supervisor left on vacation before speaking to me and canceled our weekly meeting. The program I was working on was suddenly dismantled but she has been after me to give her all those related contacts, even personal ones I have been fostering over the years. I am not sure what to do. I need this job and love what I do.

    1. Murphy*

      Ugh. Your boss sounds awful. I have no advice, but I’m sorry you’re going through that.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      They put you on a PIP for THAT??? (The email thing.) That’s a conversation, not a plan to improve. It makes me think your supervisor drafts PIPs instead of managing you. I’m sorry, I don’t have much advice (can HR provide any clarification? Do you have a mentor or teammate you can talk to?), this just sounds nuts.

    3. Lumen*

      “I’m probably wrong and this is based on a ‘feeling’, but I’m going to put it on your PIP anyway”

      *WAVES GIANT RED FLAG*

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Do Not give her your contacts. She absolutely sounds like she’s pushing you out the door and the only card you have is that contact list. If she gets it and gets rid of you, she might just burn you with those contacts (“Oh we had to fire Sarah for madeupreasons, such a shame, but let’s keep going!”).

        While she’s on vacation, use the excuse of her absence to talk to higher ups ASAP, specifically whoever the supervisor’s manager is. Explain that you are having difficulty with the disconnect between your supervisor’s repeated PIPs and the apparent success of your programs and positive feedback you get from others. Your approach is that you sincerely want to do a good job and feel that you are succeeding, but you’re getting mixed signals. Ask for clarification on what the supervisor might mean about the “problems” with your communications with clients and whether the manager has heard directly from clients about specific issues so that you might better address them. (If the supervisor is making this up for the purposes of PIP, the manager will be confused about clients having issues where none exist.)

        If you think it’s possible, I suggest you gently inquire as to whether you could report to another supervisor. And job search, because if the supervisor is not the sole problem, your future doesn’t look bright there. (I don’t think HR should have pressured you to sign anything over your request to review it, so I don’t know how supportive they would be.)

    5. Darren*

      Make sure to keep all of your own documentation on this, if you are given a PIP asking you to do X, but when you do X being told to instead just do what you’ve always done instead make sure you get that in writing and ensure HR are in the loop. I definitely agree that she is looking to build a case to terminate you, however it sounds like she has no actual grounds to do so and so if you wanted you’d be able to (albeit stressfully) keep this job for a significant period IF you are appropriately documenting these PIPs yourself.

      Unfortunately I can’t advise you much on the related contacts part (I’m unfamiliar with Marketing specifically to know whether that is normal or whether it would be something you could refuse to do comfortably). My personal gut feeling is you give her these contacts and you’ll be out the door as soon afterwards as she can manage so I’d be extremely reluctant to do so, but I don’t know whether or not that would be a professional faux pas in Marketing or not.

    6. Whatsinaname*

      I hope that you’ve been using your time starting with the first PIP to look for another job. Obviously, we don’t have the full story, but it sounds like your supervisor was trying to tell you that she’s going to fire you but wanted to give you some time to start looking for another job. Since you didn’t get the hint the first time, she repeated the exercise a second time, apparently without success because you still didn’t pick up the message. You’re going to get fired. Don’t provide the contacts, or if you feel compelled to provide something, only provide the contacts you made during the time you worked there. I’m really sorry and I wish you lots of success in finding another job quickly.

    7. Thlayli*

      Do not give her your personal contacts (that would actually be illegal in Europe now I believe). Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change. Start job hunting immediately or step up your job search if you’re already looking. In the meantime keep written records – send emails after every verbal instruction to “confirm” (in reality to create a paper trail). Do not sign any more documents you don’t agree with.

      Is your grandboss approachable? If so I would talk to her while your supervisor is out.

    8. Courageous cat*

      Damn, this is not how PIPs are supposed to work. They are supposed to be (at least in my experience) the last resort after a string of verbal and written warnings. To be stuck with two PIPs, especially with the second one’s reason, in 9 months sounds like they have no idea what they’re doing and have no clue how to communicate.

      Sorry you’re dealing with that. It sounds like management is far more incompetent than you are in this situation.

  98. AMPG*

    I have a gift-related question – the event in question is over, but tell me what I should have done. My boss invited me and a number of other coworkers who report to him to his daughter’s high school graduation party. What was an appropriate graduation gift? Normally I would give money, but that felt really weird in this situation. For reference, I don’t know his daughter, and while my boss is friendly and I’ve been to his house before, I believe I was invited mainly because he invited everyone who reports to him directly, and not because we’re especially close.

    1. Murphy*

      A gift card? Either to Target, or just a Visa gift card. Both useful for a college student.

      2. SoSo*

        Yeah, a gift card would be an easy route to take. If you’re uncomfortable with the visa card being like cash, I would’ve suggested someplace like Target that they could use to get dorm supplies, or a restaurant that delivers that they can use once they get into their dorm (Jimmy Johns, a pizza place, etc) since dining hall food can be…. not so great.

    2. Rey*

      I feel like it’s weird/unnecessary for him to invite his employees to his daughter’s high school graduation party. I probably would have opted out. (And if you absolutely had to attend and could not get out of it, I don’t think any gift is necessary because it’s gifting up (boss’s daughter).

      1. Laurlema01!*

        I would go with “Sorry, but I have a prior commitment.” Than give a graduation card and forget it. One thing I’ve learned while working in higher education is kids need gas money, a gas card? Other ideas, movie theatre gift card, things that spend off campus. Many places do food dollars as part of the meal plan, in includes a certain amount of food dollars for restaurants on campus per semester. I would recommend Starbucks, it’s one of my favorites, but it’s included in food dollars where I work. Gift Cards for office supply stores is a good idea also.

        My rule of thumb about gifts & co-workers is: If the only time I’m asked to socialize with this person outside of work, is when it’s a gift giving occasion I’ll come up with an excuse.

      2. AMPG*

        He’s that type of boss, though – it’s definitely a different approach to a working relationship than I usually take, but he’s good about not being inappropriate. It’s these “grey area” things that tend to stump me.

        At any rate, I ended up buying a “2018 Graduate” Hallmark photo ornament. But ever since, I’ve been worried that I was being too cheap and should’ve given a gift card (instead or in addition).

    3. Thlayli*

      It would have been fine to give cash. It’s the daughter you’re giving the cash to not the boss after all. In my experience every student is usually broke no matter how well off their folks are.

  99. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    I have nothing useful to add, just wanted to say that it’s my birthday, it’s a BEAUTIFUL Friday where I am, I have one week left in my current job, and two weeks until I get married!!! Happy Friday everyone!

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Happy birthday!

      Enjoy the beautiful weather!

      Huzzah to your last week at your job!

      Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!

      All your good news has given me extra cheer today, happy Friday indeed!

  100. Batshua*

    This week, I got dinged for being SIX minutes late and FOUR minutes late. They hit me with 15 minutes AWOL each time. I’m very very rarely later than 8:03, and I’m usually in at 7:58. It’s all officially documented and I don’t know whether the fact they’re dinging me on tiny amounts works in my favor or not.

    The parking here is terrible and inconsistent, and I can easily show up plenty early yet end up driving in circles and parking in a non-space in a lot that’s over a 7 minute uphill walk. That … does not lead to timeliness. I can’t fix the parking, and I’m not disabled enough to warrant a placard, but I am disabled enough that the hike from the far far lot really takes it out of me.

    I’m angry and frustrated that I can’t seem to fix my schedule ENOUGH to consistently have those five damn minutes. I don’t know where they are or why they are running away from me.

    I got pulled into a meeting yesterday that amounted to “you rock at your job, but here are 25 things you suck at and need to fix, we will be working closely with you over the next month”. So, I’ll be observed so much I won’t be able to BREATHE.

    I’m not faffing around at work, all my work gets done, but they want it done FASTER anyway. I know that speed will increase mistakes, and they HATE mistakes. I honestly don’t know if I can do better at this job at the level they expect. I think they actually expect perfection, and that’ s… not a thing that’s possible, at least not for me.

    I got in trouble for NOT doing things as well as doing things. I pace myself in a way that works for me, but I feel like nothing I do is good enough anymore.

    Also, I … might’ve gotten in trouble for dissociating at work. [Nobody at work knows I dissociate, because it’s sort of a thing I’ve only *just* started addressing with a specialist.]

    My friend who is a LCSW suggested I just stop caring so much. A lot of my stress and the resultant stress migraines (I had one this week that lasted at least two days and led to a lot of mistakes, but nobody acknowledged that migraines are a Problem…) are from worrying about doing well at work. I know intellectually I can only do my best, and if my best isn’t good enough because I have big shoes to fill, then my best isn’t good enough, but I feel like the stress is making me make MORE mistakes which is … not good.

    I just … can’t anymore?

    Does anyone have advice on how to handle Things until I find a better fit?

    1. Lynne879*

      The whole “Just stop caring so much” advice is easier said than done, especially when you’re someone that cares about doing a good job, KNOW you’re doing a good job, but it’s never seems good enough for your bosses :/ I’M still trying to figure out how to “stop caring” at my job.

      The only advice I can give is channel all your frustration & energy into aggressively job searching.

    2. Whatsinaname*

      Look for another job. Really! Unless the business depends on you opening up, who cares about being a few minutes late. I’m a manager and my people have 30 minutes leeway as long as they make it up on the other end. And you getting migraines twice a week is really a red flag that this isn’t the job for you. Listen to what your body is telling you.

      1. Batshua*

        Yeah, I’ve been looking since way before the migraines (back when I first qualified to be a Grade 7), but right now there doesn’t even seem to be a lateral that makes sense for me.

        My clinic runs from 7:00-5:30, but my shift is 8 hours, so I have NO IDEA why they’re being such sticklers. I know it doesn’t “look good” when I’m late, but there are ALREADY PATIENTS THERE when I am on time. That is how the clinic works. I feel like they’re harping on this only because they can. It is NOT helping me become a better employee, I can tell you that much.

    3. Chaordic One*

      This is a big problem at a lot of colleges. And the administration, who have designated parking places, just don’t give a fig about it. If you mention it, they tell you that you should use mass transit. (As if everyone had access to a convenient bus stop, or rail line.)

    4. Mephyle*

      If only you could leverage “we will be working closely with you” to mean that they would work closely with you to help find a workable solution for the parking issue.

      1. Batshua*

        HAHA no, I wish. I wish so much.

        More like “work even faster than you already do but never make any mistakes because mistakes are the devil what do you mean being under a microscope makes you nervous and then you make more mistakes”

      2. Batshua*

        I’m pretty sure the parking thing will be “suck it up and get here earlier”.

        Today I got to work 15 minutes early, which is a frelling miracle. I *barely* found a spot in my regular lot. They were already down to 2 or 3 spaces.

        Sometimes I get in with 5 minutes to spare and there are spaces in the second row.

        I have NO IDEA how parking works around here other than it’s terrible and unpredictable as heck.

  101. Kevin*

    Two months ago I interviewed for a position and went through a series of three interviews. The first two went great and I was praised on my work samples I brought in. The third was with my boss’s boss and it went terrible. He grilled me on my alma mater and accused me of going to a diploma mill (I went to an online for-profit college which I know is terrible, but I have five years relevant experience and IMO a great portfolio with work samples). The interview ended with him telling me “good luck with everything” and I was told a week later via email they were passing on me because they felt I didn’t meet the qualifications for the position (no surprise).

    This week I got a call from their HR department saying they’d like to extend me a job offer? I asked if they had the right person because they previously had passed on me and they said “the team had kept my information on file” and wanted to offer me the position.

    It’s a dream company with a great office and a significantly higher salary but after the big boss really belittled me in the interview and they initially passed on me I’m not really sure how secure I’d feel in this new role. Any advice? I am I in line to as if the big boss is still there and what changed their mind after the originally passed?

    1. LCL*

      How often would you have to work with the boss’ boss? In my job the answer would be never, but in smaller companies that can change. I think the reason you were called back is because you were the strongest candidate, so others were able to override the boss boss on this.

      1. Kevin*

        My impression was I’d have to work with him very little. The first interview was with my potential coworkers and the second was with my potential boss and the potential boss gave me a brief tour before the awful third interview with the big boss. I talked to them significantly about their process there and he really didn’t seem to be involved at all directly.

    2. irene adler*

      Could it be that the belittling is something the big boss does as an interview ‘strategy’ to see how candidates react to such behavior? IOW, a test of some kind?
      (which still makes him a big jerk, if you ask me)
      I know it’s hard to fathom working in a place where this guy is. But don’t let him or his behavior deter you from a good job.

      Also, if you think you were their second candidate selection, can you find out what happened to the first candidate? That might give you some guidance.

    3. Darren*

      So what it sounds like is that initially the big boss decided to pass on your application. Presumably in light of your degree he decided that someone else was a better fit.

      After that it appears that something caused the company to change it’s mind, maybe the hiring manager was really impressed with you and burned some of his capital at the company to get you the position, maybe the first hire didn’t work out and they have decided you were strong enough that they’d be happy to have you on now this other candidate is out of the running.

      I had a terrible interview with the CTO at the company that I now work at, in the end one of the managers at the company that was really impressed by me went up to bat for me and got the decision changed and got me the offer. I took it and haven’t had a moment of regret in that decision (and that CTO left only a year or so later with me having nothing to do with him).

      What I did get that you didn’t that made my decision easy was a sit down chat with the manager that was impressed with me, and him telling me this to my face in what was nominally an “interview” but was actually just us going out to coffee and him telling me how impressed he was and offering me the position in spite of the CTOs objection. This made me completely confident in the faith my soon to be manager had in me, and confident that it wouldn’t be a mistake to take the position.

      What might be worth it (if they’d be okay with that) is seeing if maybe you could do a quick call with the hiring manager to chat with them and hear from them what is going on (as much as they can share) so you can have the appropriate level of confidence in the decision?

    4. Chaordic One*

      As someone with an associate degree from a for-profit college (that nicely complements my bachelor’s degree from a state university) the boss’s boss’s comments really chap my hide. My experience was that the for-profit classes were equal in quality to anything I experienced at a four-year school. It was a situation where you got what you put into it, if you worked hard you’d learn a lot.

      Still, I don’t list the associate degree on my resume because of the stigma. However, I really did learn a lot of valuable skills at the for-profit college and they have helped me professionally.

  102. Eliza*

    I have a long term health condition and after graduating university it got worse. I could not work so applied for benefits.

    As I was essentially lying on the sofa with my laptop all day I found two online revenue streams that did not make me rich but enabled me to save some money (I was lucky enough to live with my parents and have no bills) and earn enough that I no longer qualified for benefits.

    Both of these side gigs show I can be organised, write for an audience and follow through so I feel it is important to mention them in interviews especially as I have no job history. One of them is fine to talk about it is a blog about a special type of food I like (think a blog on cheese or craft beer for example). The other is erotic short stories I published on Amazon under a pen name. This is obviously not appropriate to bring up. But can I just say “short stories” with no context? What would I do if pressed for details? If I had a job history I would just talk about the blog but I have no job history only these two things that show my writing skills and the fact I can write for an audience and be mildly successful.

    I had mild success with both of these. Enough that I could pay my bills doing these two things but only just. I want more security so I intend to get a proper job and continue with these two side gigs in my spare time to earn extra spending money.

    Any advice? Would you be put off if a candidate mentioned writing erotic stories? How can I say this subtly?

    1. Forking great username*

      I don’t think there’s a way to do this subtly and not have it put off the interviewer while using the word erotic. Would it be too much of a stretch to just say fiction if they ask the genre?

    2. Murphy*

      I wouldn’t be put off, but probably many employers would. And that sucks.

      Maaaaaybe you could get away with saying “romance” but that’s not always looked at favorably either, so I think I’d probably not mention it. I think it’d likely you’d be asked for details. And if it was a writing related job, they might even ask for a sample.

    3. Temperance*

      It would come across as weird and cagey if you said “I write short stories for pay” and refused to give any context.

    5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Maybe just say “blogging and other writing” and leave out the details? I don’t know if that would work.

  103. Forking great username*

    Still looking for a teaching job. It had been radio silence because everyone was on vacation. And now that it’s not silence…ugh. So far one rejection e-mail and one job re-posted. Apparently they both only wanted teachers with experience. Slightly frustrating since they’re standard teaching jobs starting at the very first pay step. So I’m starting to apply for some of the districts that I don’t particilarly want to work in, but could suck it up for a few years and then apply again to the places that want experience. But the first rejection of a job search always stings. I know it’s normal part of the job search, and I’ve been on both ends of this in my former line of work, but I think I let myself get a bit overly confident that I’d find something based on feedback from my university supervisor, my cooperating teachers during student teaching, and the mock interview I did. So not even getting an interview for the top two jobs I was shooting for stings.

    I do have one general question though (which I know Alison has answered, but I’m having trouble finding it.) If a job you applied for gets re-posted, does it make sense to apply again? Should I mention the fact that I applied for it last time in yay cover letter?

    2. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I think Alison said this was a no go, but this is one of the areas where teaching differs from other jobs because the kids will be there come September (or August) and someone needs to be there to teach them. June’s “must haves” become September’s wish list. That being said, I think you would have your best chance if you held off for a few weeks and watched to see if the position’s still available. If it’s still there mid-August, I would give it one more shot. This is all assuming that you have a September start, if this district starts in August you can move sooner.

      All that being said, it’s not unreasonable for principals to hire experienced teachers if they can. The first 3-5 years of teaching is really hard and in some schools (in high-needs areas or in schools with very demanding parents) not having a really good handle on what you’re doing (which no one does in year one) makes life difficult for everyone. This isn’t to be discouraging, because I’m sure you’ll come out on top, but just to say that being a great student teacher won’t make you a great teacher right away and principals recognize that so this really could be a tougher journey than you’d like. Hang in there and best of luck!

      1. Forking great username*

        I get the reasoning behind wanting experienced teachers. The last two months of the school year I took over a classroom in the building where I student taught due to an unexpected emergency, and did everything on my own there – lesson plans (which were way behind from previous issues with a bad long-term sub that had been in the room), grading, meeting with parents, and the giant pile of stuff that comes at the end of the year in high school with final exams, senior graduation requirements, etc. There was definitely a sharp learning curve, but I think I handled it well, and I was told by the principal that if all went as he planned, they’d be hiring me to officially take over that class (I was also a long term sub at that point.) But the people above him decided to save money by not hiring anyone, instead just eliminating the class and increasing other class sizes. Of course that stuff just happens sometimes, but it was disappointing.

        Good point about June’s expectations/hopes becoming different in August.

    3. Julianne (also a teacher)*

      I obviously can’t speak for the districts/schools where you are applying, but my advice would be that it’s unlikely to hurt you to reapply, but it also might not help. In my experience on both sides of the table in school hiring, schools will call you if they’ve reconsidered your candidacy (through a reposting or because another position opened, for example). On the other hand, I know we’ve had people reapply when positions are reposted, and we’ve never not hired someone solely because of that (but I also don’t know anyone – at least, not in my building – who has gotten hired that way). At least for roles I’ve been involved in hiring for, the conversation is never, “We passed on Fergus for the math job and now he’s applied for it again, let’s never, ever hire this dude,” but it is sometimes, “Hey, didn’t we pass on Fergus during the first round of resume reviews? He didn’t have the qualifications we needed then, and he still doesn’t, so let’s see what other resumes look like.”

      1. Forking great username*

        Fair point. I do meet everything on their list of qualifications, if that makes a difference. But of course I’m sure they’d prefer someone who above and beyond tops the list instead of just meeting it.

        1. Julianne (also a teacher)*

          I didn’t mean to imply that you don’t; apologies if it read that way. But you’re right that in general, schools are looking for teachers who go beyond the minimum qualifications, which I do realize puts new teachers in a jam. I was in that position 4 years ago, and it suuuuuucked.

          BUT. Someone will take a chance on you, like the commenter above said. I’ve only ever been an August hire, and there’s nothing wrong with that (besides the undue stress that comes with it). Keep putting in applications. You got this!

  104. Fabulous*

    I told my boss that I’m pregnant yesterday!! She is very excited for me, which I expected. We’re having a team trip to her office in a few weeks (5 of us work in 3 different offices) and she wants to play a game of “Guess Who’s Pregnant” at our team dinner, which I think is hilarious. Only 3 of us are “of the age” but only the other two have kids already, so we both wager everyone will guess my coworkers before me. I just hope I can continue hiding it from my teammate in my office. He’s almost caught be looking at baby stuff on the computer a few times, plus I’m 12 weeks now and starting to show a bit; I will be 15 weeks at the time of the trip.

    1. AMPG*

      Congratulations to you!

      Honestly, though, I wouldn’t play that game. You don’t know if one of your coworkers is already pregnant but hasn’t announced yet, or worse, if they’re trying but not succeeding (even if they have kids, secondary fertility is more common than a lot of people think). You could put people on the spot without meaning to.

      1. SoSo*

        Yeah, this could go really really bad. In addition to the reasons above, it would be like asking someone “oh, when are you due?” when they’ve got a bit of extra weight on their stomach. If this happened with my team and someone guessed that I was pregnant and wasn’t, I’d be pretty upset.

        1. Rey*

          +1. DO NOT play the game. And consider carefully whether the dinner is an appropriate place to make the announcement to your whole team. Other team members might feel uncomfortable if the pregnancy announcement is the keystone topic at dinner–of course, they are happy for you and wish you the best, but now they’re also expected to be Very Excited for you and ask all the polite pregnancy questions that really belong with your friends, not your coworkers. (And if they aren’t Very Excited as expected, you might be Very Disappointed that your Announcement wasn’t received with Excitement). I would think of it much more casually than An Announcement and pick an appropriately casual, low-key timing where all of your coworkers are present (so you don’t have to repeat yourself) but they can quickly move onto the next activity. Related, if your coworker in your office does figure it out before the team-wide meeting, it’s fine to let him know without holding out to tell him with the group.

    2. Anona*

      I would try to avoid guessing who’s pregnant, if that’s a game where people may wind up guessing that a nonpregnant person is pregnant. I struggled with infertility in the past (my work never knew), and would been devastated if I had been guessed to be pregnant, even as part of a silly game. I can also see people have some feelings about weight issues about this. Just generally not a good idea to guess about that, even if it’s a game.

      But congratulations! That’s very exciting news! And as a sidebar, I’m pregnant too :). I hope things go well fo ryou!

      1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

        +1. At the time, I managed to always be cheerful with my congratulations when there was a pregnancy announcement…, but I was heavy from the infertility treatments and hormonal, and I would NOT have done well in person – especially if someone had guessed me. Please don’t.

    3. Forking great username*

      Oh no no no no. My self esteem would take SUCH a huge hit if this ‘game’ happened in my place of work and people guessed that I was the pregnant one (my stomach is my problem area and this has happened to me before.)

    4. Fabulous*

      To clarify, the other girl on my team had her second child about 1.5 years ago. The guy’s wife also had a child last year too. As for weight issues, I’m the only one with a supposed “weight problem” who holds any weight around the middle. The other girl is very petite, and of course the other is male. We’re a pretty laid back and open group, and I truly don’t *think* anyone would take offense to it (not to say that they’d share any fertility troubles at work, but just that I’m pretty sure neither is trying for a 3rd kid just yet, if at all.) The other two on our team are grandmothers.

      1. Anona*

        I mean, just because someone recently had a kid doesn’t mean that they don’t have fertility troubles. I could see us trying to have a kid again in 1-1.5 years, and it not going well.

        I would still avoid this. This is the type of thing that may even seem to go over “fine” but could haunt someone. If I participated, I would definitely play along “oh, haha, funny game!” and immediately go to my car and cry, or at least think about it multiple times, probably for years.

        And just because people don’t look “heavy” doesn’t mean they don’t have weight issues. It’s just a really potentially sensitive topic, and I would not do it.

        1. Anona*

          Just announce your pregnancy! There are many other cute ways you can do it other than having people guess if other coworkers are pregnant.

      2. AMPG*

        Still, it’s a bad idea. You genuinely don’t know what’s going on with your coworkers enough to know that this wouldn’t be a problem for anyone. It might be fine, or you might end up the subject of a future AAM open thread where commenters share all of the inappropriate pregnancy comments they’ve experienced in the workplace. I get that you’re excited and you want to share your news in a fun way, but this isn’t the way to do it.

      3. Rusty Shackelford*

        It doesn’t really matter. It’s still an awful game. Please don’t do it.

      4. Marge Gunderson*

        Oooof I really don’t want to pile on, but I have to throw in that I’ve been petite/underweight my whole life, and people love to compliment me on my pregnancy for not “looking” pregnant…folks really just don’t realize how awful it is for me to hear that! I’ve had eating disorders and medical struggles, which I don’t share with coworkers. You really can’t assume that because someone is petite it’s ok to guess about they’re pregnancy or that they’ll automatically be okay with it.

    5. Ask a Manager* Post author

      OMG, do not do that — seriously do not. You don’t know who might be pregnant and not ready to announce, or struggling with infertility, or just really disgusted by this kind of guessing game. It’s highly likely to alienate or upset someone. Do not under any circumstances do this.

    7. Quaggaquagga*

      Someone at my work did this. I missed it, but it was reportedly “incredibly awkward” and a “game that no one could win.” Don’t do it!

    8. Immigrant Song*

      That “game” is a horrible idea. For so many reasons. Please, just don’t. It’s not “hilarious”, it’s inappropriate at best and actively offensive at worst.

      Announce your pregnancy and celebrate it. Don’t drag other people into speculation that can be embarrassing, hurtful or rude. It’s not kind.

    9. Saskia*

      Congratulations!

      Please do not play this game with your work colleagues. Really.

      You don’t know what may be going on for the other people in the team. It’s incredibly intrusive and unwelcome to invite speculation of this kind. Do you want to encourage even more assessment of the body shapes of people who might be able to be pregnant? What about people who may be infertile, who have experienced miscarriages, or who are going through early menopause, but are keeping this private?

      There are other ways to celebrate your good news. This game sucks and is completely inappropriate for any gathering, and spectacularly wrong at a team dinner.

    10. K*

      Congratulations! But, yeah, do not play that game. I have one child, and had health problems less than a year after he was born, and was told another pregnancy was not a good idea. Okay, cool, he’s awesome, we were a little disappointed at first, but adapted quickly and made it known this was it for us. (Family was told the real reason; coworkers were told “we’re one and done” and that was it.)

      Would you like to know how many “maybe you’re pregnant” jokes I heard for the next TEN YEARS??

      Please do NOT play that game.

  105. Book Badger*

    Wish my luck on the bar exam (the results of which I won’t know until October while I apply for tentative jobs in the meantime)! In August I’m going to be looking at legal fellowships so hopefully that will pan out into something to pay my student loans back, but God, I’m terrified.

    2. CTT*

      I’m taking it too – good luck to both of us on the exam, and good luck with the job hunt!!

    3. The Original K.*

      Good luck! I have a lot of lawyer friends so I’ve watched a lot of people I care about tackle the bar exam – it’s a big deal! You can do it! Treat yourself to something afterward!

  106. HigherEdPerson*

    UGH, can we chat about work politics? I work in Higher Ed (duh), and the political game has always made me cringe. I’m coming up against some of them, and it’s making my job way harder than necessary. I get that workplace politics have a time and place, and at the end of the day, if my VP asks me to do something, I do it. But when it’s someone with a lot of clout from another dept, I’m finding it hard to tread carefully for the sake of not upsetting people.

    I am having trouble managing this world of workplace politics and egos, and I’m worried I’ll mess up bigtime, and affect my ability to get stuff done. How do you wade through this mess?

    1. Murphy*

      It’s not easy. If it’s someone I’m worried about upsetting, I will go to my boss (AVP level) and tell him what’s going on and my suggested response. I’m not necessarily asking his permission so much as giving him a heads up, in case someone complains. (I have some fairly strict guidelines I have to stick to, so a lot of times it just is what it is.) Usually my boss backs me up and lets me do what needs to be done. Occasionally, he’s decided to be the one to deliver the not-so-great news instead of me.

      1. HigherEdPerson*

        Good point. I do have a great supervisor (she’s also an AVP) and she knows the egos at play in this particular scenario.
        I think the biggest part is that I just don’t have the freaking patience for this crap. Like, please – get over yourself, and let’s just work together amicably, mmmkay? And I am really working HARD to make sure my feelings about fragile egos don’t spill over onto my face when I’m talking to people.

        1. Murphy*

          Ha, I agree! I’m lucky that most of my interaction is by email so I can take a moment before responding.

          In my previous job, a poker face did get better with practice.

          1. HigherEdPerson*

            I wrote my email response and sat on it for a few hours, LOL. Then I sent it to a trusted colleague for another set of eyes. It was a nice balance of “I very much respect the work that you do!” and “The current system you have isn’t meeting our needs” – when what I wanted to say was “the current system you have is crap, it’s ugly, not user friendly, from the Dark Ages, and you and your team are the only ones that like it.” I hate that I have to “kiss a**” in certain settings in order to get things done.

        2. Rey*

          No advice, just commiserating. It still blows me mind every time I interact with (or just think about) 1 or 2 such individuals at my organization. Just remind yourself, “It’s not me, it’s you, because you have chosen to die on every (ant)hill you can find in a 100 mile radius”

    2. Epocene*

      Ha! I very aware of the… unique politics of higher ed. What worked for me was having people at my level who I could roll my eyes with. There is a danger of that becoming a downward working-hating spiral, so it’s important to make sure you talk about the craziness with a humorous tone not an angry one. I can definitely sympathize, it’s a waste of time and energy but some people just seem to feed on it.

      And unfortunately I think the best thing to do is accept that you will upset people at some point – and at no fault of your own- but only because they WANT to be upset. If you remain calm in the face of wackiness they can’t suck you in!

      1. JS#2*

        This is what’s working for me, too–having someone to roll my eyes with. I have two people I rely on in those situations, because Person A will help me figure out how to work around it and Person B will tell me the backstory of why the craziness is happening. The important thing is to roll eyes with someone who 1. sees that it’s absurd and not normal and 2. believes things can change in some way. If you start accepting that the craziness is just “normal” and that nothing will ever change, that’s when you start down the spiral of despair. That’s what I’ve found so far.

  107. Erika22*

    I wanted to thank the UK folks who chimed in with advice about applications a few weeks ago. I wasn’t sure if the changes I implemented based on your advice were working, since it’s taken a few weeks for applications to close and be reviewed. I’m happy to say this week I was invited to two interviews, so I know I’m headed in the right direction! Keep your fingers crossed for me that the interviews go well, and thank you again!

  108. designbot*

    So I found out yesterday that my office has been in talks with someone in the industry to come in directly above me. She’s a great person, I know her work and we’ve met a few times before, and if I’m going to get a new boss, she’d be a great choice. I have 10 years of experience in the industry and have been responsible for the success of my area of the business; but this person has 30 years experience that I really respect, so there’s no question of what the setup/hierarchy would be. OTOH, despite being enthusiastic about this person in particular, I really wish that the partner who’s pursuing this (and is most closely related to the work I do) would talk to me about this stuff more. I feel really blindsided, and unappreciated, and really disheartened that my job just up and changes without warning, which has happened once already this year. It doesn’t feel respectful, and it doesn’t feel like the company is looking out for the people who’ll be impacted by these sorts of changes. Additionally I want to know if this is something they’re seriously looking for and she’s just one candidate, or if they just saw an opportunity with her and started pursuing it not as part of a bigger strategy.
    Is it worth trying to bring this up? What would you do in this situation?

    1. Darren*

      I think it’s always worth bringing up things that can be affecting employee morale, and engagement and lets be honest I’m sure we’ve all had management (even those striving to be better and making employees more involved in decisions impacting their work) that have ended up having these sorts of discussions without looping employees in.

      The tricky part is obviously how to approach it. I’d probably come at it from the “I’ve heard these rumours and I was hoping to have a discussion about them, my role, and just trying to get a bit of transparency around what might be going on that might have an impact on the work I’m doing in the short to medium term.” so nothing accusatory but just trying to get some information and making it clear that you like transparency.

  109. Persephone Mulberry*

    TL;DR: Has anyone ever negotiated a raise while working a longer-term temp assignment?

    I started a temp job through a staffing agency a couple weeks ago; the placement person didn’t know how long of an assignment it might be, but in talking with my on-site supervisor, she’s hoping to keep me, unless I find a permanent job, at least through the end of the year. It’s a startup and they don’t know yet what their long term staffing needs are going to be, so no promise of anything going permanent. But it’s highly likely that my role will evolve over the next few months as the project moves through various phases, and if the role relatively quickly turns higher level, I feel like my pay should, too?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Negotiating a pay increase when you’re on a temp assignment is possible, but is generally a bit more convoluted and may take more time.

      My suggestion would be to outline what has changed since you started the position and what you would like your increase to be. Present this to your contact at the agency (have a phone conversation first and then follow up with the information in email). They will have to reach out to their contact at the company to discuss the possibility of increasing the rates.

    2. Persimmons*

      I negotiated a raise during my third re-up of a six-month contract (so I was there 1 1/2 years at that point), and as Amy says it was a convoluted mess.

      First, at my initial hire, the agency had made big promises the company claimed to not even aware of, so the company acted a bit bewildered/blindsided that I wanted more money. I took on the position at a lower hourly rate with the understanding that I was an unknown entity due to my long time out of the field, and that my performance would be reviewed and rewarded before re-up. Company claimed they’d never said as such, and that agency “made it up”. Not sure if they were being truthful, but the scope and my skill level had increased so significantly that it was MORE than fair by then.

      Second, any raise I got was coming out of the agency’s share of the take, so while the company wasn’t hugely motivated to squash me, the agency was very, very reluctant to make the raise happen. There was a lot of miscommunication and foot-dragging that made for bad blood between the agency and the company.

      Before you do anything else, figure out whose pocket this raise would come from. That will guide your next steps. Next, get a FIRM review procedure in writing. “At X months in, my performance will be reviewed, and if it meets Y standard, I will get Z more money effective within Q pay periods.”

  110. Lanzzz*

    I’m a recent graduate, who is currently interning. My internship is ending in about a week or so, and so it’s time to find a full time, paying job. Yesterday, I saw a listing for an entry level position in my department! I would REALLY love to fill that position. I’ve talked to my supervisors and some other higher-ups about my desire to stay on, so I’m sure they know I’m interested. What should I do to express my interest further, and actually get this job! It doesn’t seem enough to just tell my supervisor that I’ve submitted my resume and cover letter (which will be the greatest cover letter I’ve ever written in my life!). What should I do beyond that?

    1. costume teapot*

      That is exactly all you should do. Submit a killer CL and resume, tell your supervisor, and leave it.

      1. SoSo*

        Yep, submit your materials and mention it to your supervisor. A quick “Hey, I know I’ve mentioned it to you in the past that I’m interested in staying on at the company after the end of my internship, so I wanted to let you know that I’ve submitted my resume and cover letter for the Open Department Position” will suffice. Anything past that would be overkill and potentially annoying.

  111. Rusty Shackelford*

    Every once in a while someone suggests negotiating for extra vacation time when accepting a job offer. How does this work? When a company has a standard policy that outlines what you get based on tenure, how do you make sure your agreement is honored? Would an email be sufficient?

    1. Emmie*

      Negotiate extra vacation time by making a business case for it. Make it part of your broader salary negotiation package. When you accept a job offer, you are negotiating your total compensation which includes salary, benefits, and vacation.
      My approach was this: As you can see from my resume, I am a very high achieving employee and will do the same for this company. I give 110% to my job often working later hours, coming up with more efficient processes, and doing whatever it takes to get the job done. I would like an additional two weeks of vacation time, or for you to come close to that. I need that extra time to rejuvenate, refresh, and it will help me consistently perform at a top level for the company.
      I came out on the winning end. They awarded me an additional five days of personal time. (They could not do it as vacation, but both PTOs are calculated the same at my new company.)
      My PTO was honored for 2 years. My company then changed the way we awarded PTO, so I lost the extra week I negotiated plus an additional week of PTO like everyone else in the company. You make sure they honor it by putting it in the offer letter, but know that policies could change. I still recommend negotiating for more PTO.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      I am really not the best person to answer this question, as I’ve never been in your position, but prior posts I’ve read here indicate that whatever changes you negotiate should be written into your contract, and you should not sign the contract unless and until those changes are included.

    3. That Would Be a Good Band Name*

      I’d make sure it’s included in your offer letter and then when you start be sure you can see the time available in whatever system they have for tracking vacation.

      I’m sure this isn’t universal, but I’ve only seen the “extra” work for the initial round of vacation. So lets say you wanted to start with 3 weeks instead of 2. How I’ve seen this work is the person gets the 3 weeks, and stays at 3 weeks until policy says they have enough tenure to move to 4 weeks. I just wanted to flag that in case you are thinking more along the lines of you will always have a week more than what the policy states.

    4. Evil HR Person*

      The bigger the company, the harder it is to negotiate this. I work for a small enough company that we are able to force the system into granting more vacation time per pay period (that’s the way we do it) and I’ve done it for someone who came new to a leadership position. If switching companies means that you’ll lose vacation time, there’s the perfect opening to asking for more. If I was already at 4 weeks at Company A, and Company B wants to hire me, they can’t reasonably expect me to give up 4 weeks! That’s the perfect opportunity to negotiate vacation/PTO/personal days. If the company can’t do that (their system is hard set, for example) they can increase salary to sweeten the pot, so to speak. If vacation is important enough that you’re willing to take a lower salary for more vacation, there’s another bargaining chip. It never hurts to ask.

  112. Shades of Blue*

    Does anyone have experience with Leadership/C Suite Development programs? My spouse is looking into a few with some well-known global companies. From what I’ve perused, these programs are for people with 4-10 years experience, 2-3 years long, typically international, and very competitive.

    I assume these are legit, but I’m surprised I’m only ‘discovering’ these now.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Do you mean programs in which folks are hired into an accelerated leadership track? (And at the end, they are either guaranteed or well-positioned for a role at a director level or above, generally earlier than they would have gotten there through normal promotions?)

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I work in the nonprofit sector, so this is based on my husband’s experience (corporate strategy)… they’re very common!

          He was hired into a program like this immediately out of business school. Unfortunately for him, the program was disbanded before he finished. His “class” had about a year’s notice before the program was disbanded, and he ended up moving to another company after two years (there were plenty of opportunities at his original company; he just found something that was a better fit for him).

  113. Namast'ay in Bed*

    How in depth is your company’s orientation process? Is it normal to be trained to be expert on your company’s business, even if your job doesn’t call for it?

    I work for a large international company in a specific, specialized field, but I’m on the business operations side of things and my job and expertise is not at all related to the field. As part of my “new” hire orientation (I’ve been here 6+ months) I have to attend product classes along with the other new hires in order to learn about the company’s products, clients, industry relations, etc. I get and agree that everyone should have a base understanding of what the company does, but these are multiple, in-depth, hours-long classes that also require homework, quizzes, group work (shudder), and a presentation – and I don’t need to know any of this in order to do my job.

    These classes also require a certain amount of prerequisite industry knowledge (that I don’t have because my career and job don’t require it), and there are definitely people in it who should have and do need this knowledge (sales people, consultants, the people actually in the trenches, etc), but they have to take it just the same as people who don’t need this knowledge (IT people, support staff, tech folks, digital ops, etc). And it’s not just for junior people – sure there are college interns in attendance, but there are VPs taking it too!

    Overall I’m just frustrated that I have to take what feels like a college class on a topic I didn’t want to sign up for. I know I sound like a big turd but I’m mostly frustrated that I have to take these classes so late into my orientation – some people just started this week, but I’m a fully integrated member of my team, complete with a full workload that is getting pushed off to learn about things that won’t help me do my job. I’m not even the longest tenured person in these classes, and other people have been grumbling too.

    I’m going to be able to pass so that’s not really a concern, but is it worth mentioning anything at all? I feel like it would be beneficial to have a heavy course and a light course depending on how much you need to know to do your job, or at the very least have people take these courses right when they start and have an almost non-existent workload. Did anyone else have to get in-depth training about their company when they started? This is the biggest company I’ve ever worked for so I’m not sure if this is just par for the course.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      And it’s not just for junior people – sure there are college interns in attendance, but there are VPs taking it too!

      Maybe you can look at it as an opportunity to get to know these people better!

      If there’s a post-class evaluation, I’d say you felt like it was largely not helpful for your particular job, and thought it would have been more helpful (which means less of a massive time sink) when you first started, but i wouldn’t expect anything to change.

    2. jack*

      I’m guessing we work in similar fields, though I am someone whose job would require that in-depth knowledge. We do not have people who are not in those roles learn much about the process – they’re part of our new employee orientation but it is not nearly as in depth as what you are receiving.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I had to sit through two days of institutional training when I started my new job a few months ago. It involved people in basically every aspect of the business and covered the history and core values of the organization. It was… very long and not exceptionally useful IMO. We got a feedback survey after and I suggested they shorten it to only be one day.

      They did some practical things too, like our I9s, ID badges, parking, etc.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        That reminded me of the orientation I had the summer I worked part-time for Giant Soul-Sucking Retailer. It was videos about (1) benefits I didn’t qualify for, and (2) how you should never say “I’m sorry” if a customer is hurt in the store, because that could be considered an admission of guilt.

        1. Middle School Teacher*

          I had a similar orientation for a similar soul-sucking retailer. Ours also included videos on what to do if a tornado hit (useful) and also if an earthquake or volcano eruption occurred (a lot less useful). Then we had to watch three (!) videos on why unions are bad, screw over the little guys, and one will Never Never Never Be Allowed Here. Longest three days of training in my life.

            1. Middle School Teacher*

              Yup. Gotta know how to evacuate the store in event of volcano! (I believe this chain had locations in Hawaii? But as someone located in the Canadian prairies, it was hilarious to me.)

    4. Darren*

      This sounds far more involved than a typical new hire orientation however I want to stress that no matter how much you think you don’t need to know what the business does you won’t be able to operate effectively if you don’t. One of the big things we are pushing at my company is improving business acumen of all of our employees because they are so much less effective without it.

      Say for example you are IT right, you don’t really need to know much about the business? But how do you prioritise work then? You have to understand where the value to the business lies in the projects, and therefore what has the most value. Not every bit of work is going to be large enough for a project manager, but if Bob the sales guy that is working on the $10m contract doesn’t get his email sorted before Jim the VP that currently isn’t working on anything as valuable it’s going to be your job on the line if Bob misses an important email that makes the difference in getting or not getting that contract.

  114. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Last week, I did a phone interview with a company that just went through change (e.g., famous company going through a merger). After said merger occurred last year, it received the dubious distinction of “one of the worst glassdoor-rated companies in the country.” The interview went quite well, the job description sounds perfect, but the “country’s worst” ranking is scaring me. Should I run for the hills? Note, the interview was very nice, and was the only interviewer I’ve had these past months to actually call, and call on time no less. :S

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      What are they saying on glassdoor? There’s a big difference between natural complaints that come as a result of merger, which may not affect you now that the dust is settled, and complaints that signify long-term systemic issues that you don’t want to walk into.

    2. PB*

      Well, it depends. My last job was at an institution that hit the front page of the NYT for large-scale, long term corruption. It was awful. Then I left for a job at a different institution with a famous history of corruption and general awfulness. The difference for me was that, with Old Job, it felt like they were really busy trying to deny wrong-doing and scapegoat, but New Job has been working actively on re-building. I respected the progress they’d made, and I wanted to be part of it.

      So, is the company working on improving? Or are they building their house on a cracked foundation? It might be hard to evaluate from the outside. If you decide to stay in the process and proceed to on on-site interview, ask about the merger, what they’re doing to respond to change, employee morale, etc. You might ask about the successful candidate’s role in re-building. If you ask the right questions and pay attention to the answers (including unspoken things like pauses, body language, frowning, etc.), you can get a good sense of whether this is a place you want to be or not.

      Of course, if you’re not desperate for a job, you might decide you don’t want to bother and pull out. I don’t know what’s right for you. Just wanted to say it is possible to join a “worst” company and have it turn out all right.

    3. neverjaunty*

      Look at the reviews carefully, but don’t rationalize yourself into a job with “they seemed nice and called me back on time”.

  115. Halmsh*

    Do any of y’all work in translation/interpretation and have advice for getting into the field/getting training/job prospects?

    I’m fluent in French, my second language, and studied it in college though not as my major. I am considering taking some college level courses to brush up on my grammar/syntax (cheap in my city, and something I’d do even if I wasn’t interested in translation). Looking at courses in my city, I could finish a certification at a local university part-time for a few grand over a year or two. This is something I think I would really enjoy pursuing event if it didn’t have an eventual payoff, and since I am about to finish paying off my student loans, something I could afford without hardship.

    My thought is that getting certified would allow me to do some translation and/or interpretation work on the side of my current job (non-profit admin/programs) and depending on how it goes I could pursue it as a freelance gig or even a career down the road.

    I don’t know, however, if this is a reasonable expectation to have – I know French isn’t a particularly in demand language, but it would be really great to work in the language even part time just to engage with it, as it makes me happy to do this work. I appreciate any advice that anyone can give!

    1. matcha123*

      With translation your basic options are “in-house,” where you are hired directly by a company to do their translations, or freelance. For freelance, it seems that you kind of just jump in. There are companies that you can register with and some may ask for a translation test.
      If English is your first language and French your second, remember that you should always translate into your native language. If you have a field you specialize in, such as science, you could find a need for scientific translations.
      I don’t know about French, but with Japanese at least, the trend is moving towards cheap crowd sourcing and having people clean up computer translated materials (or materials translated cheaply by non-native English speakers). There should be some translation groups for French and the members could give you advice on freelance rates, etc. For now, it might be good to just keep practicing your translation, get familiar with translation tools like SDL TRADOS or OmegaT, and start with translations for people you know.

    2. AMPG*

      I used to work with interpreters a lot (and translators occasionally) in a former job. I think the job market is going to vary a lot from city to city, but I know that working your way up to simultaneous interpretation (or even conference-level) will have you in more demand than just doing consecutive interpretation. If you’re able to travel, you can apply for short-term contract gigs with the State Department’s Office of Language Services (that’s how my job got our interpreters, and they would fly in from all over the country). Many of the interpreters I worked with did courtroom interpretation in their home cities.

      Hope that helps a bit!

    3. nep*

      There is a certification program with my state’s court system. Their website has a good bit of information about the preparation, requirements, and tests. They also have a list how many certified interpreters there are in the state for x, y, z languages; this could give an idea of whether there’s a need for French. (Are you looking to do translation or interpretation? Reckon the training quite different.)
      I’ve informally done some interpretation for a lawyer friend; he normally uses someone from an agency–so you could check for such agencies nearby and see what they require. (Agency interpreters charged $60-$80 per half-hour.)

    4. Halmsh*

      Thanks to everyone up thread, this is super helpful. These are all good starting points for me as I figure out what seems most feasible given my skill level and interests – I was just doing google searches that were only getting me vague advice.

      I live in NYC and reading your comments reminded me that NYC has laws that require interpretation and translation for any resident who requests it, so there’s likely a high demand as there are many francophone people here from all over the world.

    5. Mephyle*

      The job market for freelance translation is actually global: you don’t have to be in the same city, or even the same side of the world as your clients.
      Register at some freelance translator websites (some are more useful than others); I can mention ProZ in particular as one that has a lot of information in the Knowledgebase and the Forums about the topic of getting started as a freelance translator.
      You can also join internet groups for advice about getting started and specific advice about how to translate particular things and navigating particular freelance translation/interpretation business issues. These groups used to be on mailing lists (and plenty of them still are) but a lot of that activity has moved to Facebook groups.

  116. calj267*

    6 months ago I left a soul sucking job after 9 years. One of the vendors I worked with reached out and said h might have something for me if I was interested. I had something lined up so I thanked him for thinking of me. Turns out I don’t love my new jovb (I wwent from teapost Inc HR to managing the factory building) I know I can sell the “miss the people aspect of work” but I’m at a loss of how to even start an email to the vendor without sounding desperate (“please hire me, I’ll do any thing” lol) Do I go for formal opening line or just jup right into why I’m interested in something new already?

    1. designbot*

      I’d just be really honest but low-key like, hey, you mentioned a while back you might have an opening that was suited to me—at the time I had something lined up but it’s not turning out to be the fit I hoped it would be. I wanted to follow back up with you and see what it was you had in mind and whether it might still be an option.

  117. Go Bucks*

    So I am in college and am always hearing about how the “professional” clothing that is modeled for young women in TV, movies, and magazines is usually wildly inappropriate for the office. I am in a medical field where people wear shorts and sweats on a regular basis, so this isn’t super applicable to me, but I was still curious to know what some of y’alls favorite “bad advice” is. Personally, the worst example I can think of is the show Suits. Don’t get me wrong, I love Rachel, but her work attire is cocktail dresses and skirts with mid-thigh slits. Anyone actually in the working world have a show/movie/magazine that makes them cringe every time they see the supposedly office appropriate wear? Or any good examples, for that matter?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Bones. Good lord. Everything Cam wears looks like she’s going out for drinks later and won’t have time to change.

      2. Emily S.*

        Do you mean as a good example? I watched that show in the early seasons, and I remember liking a lot of her suits and ensembles.
        I stopped watching in the last couple seasons, though, since it just lost me, went downhill, IMHO. (As someone said, the House character “became a caricature of himself.”)

        1. MuseumChick*

          I liked them when I watched as a teen/early adult. Then I got to be an actual adult and realized they were not exactly work appropriate.

          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            Yeah, I *like* a lot of them. They’re cute as hell, and she looks great in them. They’re just not appropriate for her job.

    3. Rey*

      I really like the professional attire in Madam Secretary (by both Elizabeth and Stevie). The only caveat I would add is that of course, TV shows never recycle pieces, so characters never wear something more than once. I definitely wear the same black pair of pants or the same basic cardigan to work twice in one week with different combinations.

    4. An Amazing Detective-Slash-Genius*

      Jessica on Suits also wears some wild outfits. The woman can command a room like no other, but damn those are some flashy dresses. On the other hand, I think Mellie Grant from Scandal could command a room without wearing the Jessica Pearson flashy style, but of course she’s in the WH so that’s a whole ‘nother level of professionalism.

      1. Go Bucks*

        Lol I always think Jessica looks like she’s going the Oscars or something, not pulling 12-14 hours at a law firm.

    5. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Oooh I can’t wait to see what other people have to say.

      I’m trying to think of a specific example that’s work related, but I hate when there seems to be only two ways of dressing for women – cute and fun, but situationally-inappropriate, or boring and frumpy. Like…there’s definitely an in-between, guys!

      An example that comes to mind is “What a Girl Wants” – Amanda Bynes’ character is fun and free-spirited and likes to wear ripped jeans and tank tops and chunky sneakers, but she has to fit into stuffy prim and proper British society. Gasp! The only possible way to do that is to wear frumpy, formless, dowdy clothes! C’mon, I know it was a kids movie that was trying to show how “being serious” wasn’t right for her, but there is a way for a young woman to look professional without dressing in grandma clothes.

    6. Applesauced*

      The Bold Type – I get that they work in fashion, but I still questions shorts, ripped jeans, and crop tops in the office. And for the love-of-all, will Jane EVER stop wearing off the shoulder ruffles every day‽ (as an aside she the WOOOOORRRST)

      1. Rey*

        The Bold Type was exactly what I thought of what NOT to do! Even if you work if you fashion, you should aspire for Annie in Devil Wears Prada, NOT The Bold Type.

      2. Middle School Teacher*

        +1 for your interrobang! My punctuation pedant heart just soared.

        This is an older example but Ally McBeal was terrible for women’s clothes. In fact, I think there was even an episode where a judge called her out on her short skirts.

        A more recent one is Law & Order: SVU. I don’t understand how Olivia Benson chases down the the perps in heels and low-cut blouses.

        1. Applesauced*

          99 Percent Invisible did a recent show on the interrobang, and now I am using it every opportunity I can!

    7. LadyByTheLake*

      On pretty much every show the necklines are sooooo low and the hemlines sooooo high. Nope.

    8. wurk*

      A good example IMO: Angela from Mr. Robot. I looove her minimalist button up blouse/slim trouser work wardrobe and I try to emulate it minus the stilettos!

    9. Jemima Bond*

      Women in non-uniformed law enforcement roles on tv programmes. I love Law & Order etc but even though they have trouser suits on they still tend towards spike heels, lots of makeup and hair all over the place. I say this advisedly – if you are on your feet all day potentially making arrests and/or clambering around someone else’s (dirty) house or place of business, you want flat shoes and something machine washable. You want long hair tied back out of your face. And if you flopped into bed at 2am having said yes boss I’ll be at [location an hour’s drive from your home] for a briefing at 6am, you are not planning to be carefully blending eyeshadow before leaving for work. By the end of a hard shift, you end up looking and feeling like you’ve been punched in the face, with creased clothing, somewhat fragrant of armpit – not like you just stepped out of a salon.

    11. nym*

      I’ve been on a serious Criminal Minds binge recently and while I love, love, love Penelope Garcia and her quirky style — omg that level of cleavage wouldn’t fly in my non-stuffy, non-Washington federal office, never mind someplace more traditionally conservative like the actual FBI.

      Agent Dana Scully’s three-inch heels, too. I’d break an ankle if I tried to walk, never mind run, through the woods in those.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Although I watched some X-Files over the weekend and was impressed by Dana’s clothing, heels notwithstanding.

  118. Is pumpkin a vegetable?*

    I’ve been newly assigned to manage someone who, by common knowledge, spends a fair amount of time in the restroom to use chewing tobacco (i.e. he’s gone for 30 minute stretches from his desk, and part of his job involves being available to answer questions/help others in his department, so he needs to be around). He’s already been told he can’t use it in the office, so apparently this is his work-around. There’s no medical condition that I am aware of that would necessitate these bathroom visits.) Short of my saying, “I’ve heard you’ve been in the bathroom for long stretches of time so you can chew your tobacco. You need to cut it out,” are there any other approaches I should be considering?

    1. MuseumChick*

      Maybe approach it more generally, “Hey Fergus, I’ve noticed you’ve been away from your desk for long stretches recently. Can you help me understand what is going on?” You are not accusing him of anything but you are also making it clear that you are noticing his absence. He will give whatever answer he gives and you can say “As you know major part of this position is being available to answer question. I need you to be consistently at your desk.”

    2. Loves Libraries*

      Is he able to get his work done in a timely manner? Any areas of his work suffering because of these bathroom visits?

    3. Jaid_Diah*

      Where does his chaw go when he’s done with it? My co-worker would be on the train platform doing his nasty chewing thing and spit it out onto the tracks when the train arrived. You bet we were disgusted…

  119. DivineMissL*

    This has probably been addressed many times before, but may I ask for advice/guidance anyway? I’ve been an admin for C-level executives for 20 years, and I’d like to break out of this type of job into…I’m not sure what would be a step up from that. I have retail management experience (both store and district level) prior to that. I’ve topped out salary-wise in this geographic area, so if I want to increase my pay, I’m going to have to switch. I’m thinking of applying for jobs where they’re looking for coordination/project management, to apply my current skills; but I’m not sure if hiring managers would consider something like that to be related. I’m not keen on going back to school for more training/education, as I’m still paying off student loans from my late-in-life BA degree. Do you all have any suggestions on how to transition to a job with more responsibility/better pay? Thanks in advance!

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I think a lot depends on what kind of salary you’re looking for.

      In the cities and fields in which I’ve worked, EAs are generally paid quite well. Anecdotally, I’m aware of pay ranging from $50,000 (at a mid-sized nonprofit, supporting a VP, with just a few years of experience) to $85,000 (at a law firm, supporting the founding partner, with over a decade of experience). I don’t know that there are many jobs (that don’t require specialized training or experience, like a project management certification, etc.) that would pay a higher rate.

      1. DivineMissL*

        Thanks Victoria. To clarify, EAs in this area,on average, make about $38k – $48k; I’m currently at $54k, plus overtime and other perks bring me to around $62k. Does project management not pay well? Is there such a thing as project management certification?

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Not Victoria, but project management can pay very well. There is just a very wide range of what companies call a “project manager.” In my business, it’s managing capital projects where physical infrastructure gets designed and built. Others use the term for managing a research project, and many other things. I make quite a bit and this is my title, but it wouldn’t be possible to move from an administrative position to my particular PM role without first a degree (and/or experience) in engineering, engineering management or construction management.

          C-level EAs in my area would be in the $70-$90k range, but general admins or project coordinators would be in the $40-50k range.

          You can get a PM certification. Look into pmi.org. They offer some PM-in-training-level type certificates, as well as the PMP for experienced PMs (with a 4 yr degree and 4000 hrs of PM experience). I don’t know much about the entry level certificates, but it could be worth checking out.

        2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Project management can pay quite well, but it can mean different things in different organizations (and have very different expectations and salaries).

          Some organizations and jobs mean something very specific by “project management.” For these orgs, there’s such thing as project management certification (I’ll put a link in a follow up comment). It’s a highly structured, technical approach, most often used in IT projects. (Actual project managers, please feel free to correct me!) I’d guess that if you see a job titled as “Project Manager” this is what they mean.

          … but some organizations just use “project management” to mean “managing a project.” I manage projects all the time. I don’t have certification, and it would be weirdly prescriptive of me to use the formal project management process in my role.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      My field has project coordinators and project managers, but the PMs would require specialized training. The project coordinators would probably pay a lot less than what you’re making now. But, if they had those roles in the field where you’ve been supporting executives and your field doesn’t require specialized training, the easiest path, IMHO, would be to stay in that industry. You know the people and the jargon, and how business gets done, so you can sell it as an easier transition than a totally new industry and new job role.

      I have a cousin who worked for a commercial real estate developer and started as an office assistant, then a project coordinator, then a project manager, and has moved around to different companies in that space doing PM work. She doesn’t have a degree at all. The difference for her, though, is she made the transition earlier in her career. Sometimes it’s hard to overcome doing one thing for 20 years. You definitely need to leverage any personal relationships that you can to make the change.

  120. CatCat*

    I’m gearing up to start selling handcrafted items (candles and bath products) online to start and branch into craft fairs next year. I plan to use facebook and expect probably to sell to family and friends to get started. Are there other sites I should consider for a broader market that are simple to use to set up a little shop?

    I know etsy is an obvious choice, but all the various fees seem fairly confusing, especially since there’s a commission off the total purchase, including shipping, which seems like it makes it difficult to price products since shipping can vary.

    I plan to keep this operation very small. Any and all advice welcome!

    1. SoSo*

      I used Etsy back in 2012 to sell handmade bracelets and I didn’t find it to be too difficult to decipher once I did a little investigating. It took some math to figure out the right price to set and to estimate shipping, but I did find that their tracking system for purchases vs fees vs profits made it nice come tax time. I’ve also heard great great things about Shopify from artists, but I’ve never used it personally.

      1. jack*

        Etsy has changed their structure fairly recently, which might be what CatCat is referencing.

    2. costume teapot*

      The benefit of Etsy over other store spaces like Squarespace or others I’ve seen is twofold: one, Google will search Etsy listings and push those results, and two, people don’t have to know YOUR STORE to find your goods. A lot of other web presence stores for small businesses require the consumer to be looking for you specifically, rather than generally looking for, say, bath bombs.

      1. CatCat*

        Yep, I have my tax account set up with the state :-)

        As for other states in light of the recent SCOTUS ruling… well, I’ll follow news on that and see if it’s something I particularly have to worry about at my little micro level.

  121. Yorkshire Rose*

    How do you deal with peers “checking in” and asking you where you are on their project? I’m not the kind of worker that lets things sit or misses deadlines, and every time I get these types of emails or IM’s, all it does is distract me and put me further behind on the items I am working on.

    It’s not like I sit here all day waiting for someone to give me something to do. I have a full plate, and I want to be left alone to get things done.

    1. motherofdragons*

      If I can withstand the interruption, I will send a short reply to let them know the status and also mention that I’ll let them know if there are any updates…sort of setting them up to expect updates from me, rather than them having to ask. Or, if I’m in a crunch, I’ll just keep working and respond to them when I’m able to. If you waited to respond a few hours until you come to a natural stopping point in your work, would your coworkers keep bugging you? Or can they stand to wait a bit for an update?

      1. BRR*

        I have frequently used the “I’ll let you know if there are any updates.” I usually start with a “Everything is still on track for the original completion date.”

    2. costume teapot*

      The only way I have found to work consistently for these people who feel the need to check in is to tell them when I receive their project approximately when I think I will finish with it. So if I receive an email on day 1, I’ll respond with “Received; I will get this out for you on Day 3. Let me know if that is going to be a problem.” This gives them an opportunity to say “oh actually this is a high priority that I need for tomorrow,” or otherwise to leave you alone until Day 3. If I don’t get it done by then, I’ll proactively send them an email with “Hi, sorry this is going to be late, looks like it’ll be done by 4PM/tomorrow/whenever.”

      It takes a lot more time on the starting side, but the response I’ve found is super positive and prevents people from interrupting me when I am mid-workstream!

    3. fposte*

      I guarantee you they work a lot with people who don’t get stuff done, so now they have a person-neutral protocol involving checks on progress. You absolutely can have a template response: “As discussed, your project’s place in the queue means I expect to start it [someday] and have it back to you by [days after someday].”

      1. Thlayli*

        This. I’m one of the people who “checks in” and it is absolutely because I’ve worked in an area where deadlines changed constantly and tasks were being continually moved up and down the priority queue (or just bot being done!). They just want to know if you’re still on track on the same schedule. Send a quick reply saying “still on track, you should have this by x date”

  122. motherofdragons*

    How can I let my grandboss know that errors on a website my coworker built aren’t my fault, without throwing my coworker who made the errors under the bus?

    My coworker “Shirley” built a website, and had our whole team do an intensive pilot testing before it was made public. After we tested it, though, she added some features (which I was not made aware of) and it went public without further testing. This week we had a large statewide stakeholder meeting, and unveiled our new website. Our grandboss was in this meeting (my direct boss, who is in between us, is out of the office on vacation). Shirley walked the stakeholders through the website, and all was well, but when she got to the new features, the links didn’t work. My grandboss texted me frantically saying “This is so embarrassing, motherofdragons! Why aren’t the links working??” I just responded and said, “I have no idea!” She texted the same thing to my coworker who also wasn’t involved in the website creation. It’s not surprising that she doesn’t know exactly who works on what project, but without pointing her in the right direction, I’m worried that she believes that I’m responsible for the mistake, when I’m not. But I also know from colleagues’ experiences that my grandboss is very sensitive to “throwing people under the bus” when it comes to herself and the employees she’s closest to…which includes Shirley. So, I’m looking for a tactful way to let grandboss know that I had nothing to do with the error, without seeming like I’m throwing Shirley under the bus.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      “I’m not sure how that could have happened. All of those changes were added after my part on the project. You should ask Shirley who tested those.”

      Tone is important. Helpful, polite, and totally innocent.

      Also, you’re not throwing her under the bus. Throwing people under the bus is when it’s your fault but you blame someone else. This legitimately was her fault. She laid down in the road in front of the bus herself.

      1. motherofdragons*

        This is great, thank you! And I completely agree with you re: throwing under the bus. In the past, my grandboss has perceived “pointing out when someone has made an error” as “throwing under the bus” and came down pretty hard on the person who pointed it out. So I’m extra cautious.

    2. Jessi*

      Hmmm I’m not sure sorry. I wasn’t asked to test anything after x – I wasn’t even aware it did that

  123. Anon for this*

    So here’s my situation: I work in a team of about 10-15 people in an academic library. We are all salaried, 12 month contracts. We’ve had issues with a couple of people in this group who have, shall we say, gone MIA for large chunks of the work day, multiple days a week. Cersei and Euron were the prime offenders and often had impacted the workload of non-tenured team members. Old boss did very little. New boss seems to have his eye on the situation and thus far Cersei and Euron seem to have stopped impacting other people by their absences. Stannis has always been upset by this state of affairs, which was understandable when he was the one left holding the bag. But now Stannis is continually complaining to me about not just Cersei and Euron, but also everyone else who is not working the specified hours. Some of these other people have made arrangements with the approval of management and Stannis finds this all very unfair. I have told Stannis that he should speak to our boss, but still the situation continues. I should also explain that Stannis is not yet tenured and is somewhat inexperienced in the academic setting. What do I say to get Stannis to leave me alone without jeopardizing my relationship with him?

    1. fposte*

      “Stannis, I’ve told you this isn’t something I want to talk about anymore. How’s your kid/dog/sports team?” (That works even better if you live nowhere near Chicago.) In future you can shorten it up to “Nope, not doing that. What’s up with kids/dog/sports team?”

    2. JS#2*

      … Do we work together? Because this sounds like what’s happening at my academic library. Our team was just reminded that we have to account for ourselves during work hours and let people know where we are if we’re absent for multiple hours.

      As for advice, I agree with fposte–just say you don’t want to discuss it and redirect the conversation. Most reasonable people should be OK with that.

  125. Pootatoe*

    What is a good way of addressing too much phone/internet usage with someone without getting accusatory and micro-manage-y?

    I’m the sort of unofficial manager of one of the clerks in our firm. Lately, he’s been really… slacking off, for no better term for it, not doing the daily stuff he’s been assigned, not doing the weekly stuff he’s been assigned. Every time I step into his area, I see him on his phone. I feel like I ought to bring it up, but I’m not going to lie, I’m already annoyed by him dropping the ball on a couple of items and I know he’s likely to just get defensive and in the end, I just want this to be a productive conversation, not an accusatory one. I also don’t particularly care if he’s on the phone sometimes– hey, I do it too, but in conjunction with ALL THE TIME as well as Not Doing His Work… it’s not a good look. Some of our other team members also spend a lot of time on their phones, but they do high level work and they’re on top of it– and also, I don’t manage them so it’s none of my business. Any suggestions or advice on navigating this conversation?

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      You can focus on the issue of him not getting his work done, instead of him being on the phone too much. That would stop the conversation from derailing. After all, you really don’t care about the phone thing as long as his work is getting done and done well, right?

    2. SoCalHR*

      focus on the work not being done – the harder scenario to broach is if someone is on the phone all the time AND being productive… but in this case he’s not productive, so that is what needs to be addressed, the phone usage is kind of ancillary (although I’m sure there is a connection)

  126. Inspector Spacetime*

    What do you guys think about using exclamation marks in work emails?

    For context, I am a young twenty-something woman in my first job out of college. I have started not using any exclamation marks in emails because I thought they were making me seem unprofessional. It feels weird compared to all my other online communications, though, like I’m being rude.

    E.g.: “Thank for getting back to me! I will turn this around as soon as I can.” versus “Thanks for getting back to me. I will turn this around as soon as I can.”

    …I’m overthinking this, aren’t I.

    1. Rey*

      I think either way is okay. As long as the communication is professional, and you don’t use multiple exclamations, I don’t think it will stand out. If you’re worried that it will seem rude, I would look at emails that you receive from others in your organization (especially your manager), and see what their default is. I’m guessing they don’t use exclamations, so you should be fine letting them go too.

    2. SoCalHR*

      you and a half a million other women!!!! there are articles written on this issue!! my friend and I have a running joke about exclamation marks in our emails! Another friend, who is in marketing, used an exclamation mark for a ‘call to action’ type email and was chastised by her boss at super formal company saying “we don’t use exclamation marks at Stodgy Business”

    3. Yorkshire Rose*

      Use sparingly. But it is helpful to use them when you think your email might sound terse when it is really not. For example, I’ll close with something like, “Thanks! Let me know if you have any questions.”

    4. cat*

      You should watch the new Explained series on Netflix. There’s a whole episode about exclamation point usage and how it’s evolved over time and how the perceptions of the exclamation point changes depending on gender. It might give you some insight!

      1. Kat in VA*

        I have used exclamation points to soften something that someone doesn’t want to see.

        For example:

        “My VP won’t be able to meet you on Friday at 4:00PM as we originally intended. I’m sorry about that. We’ll need to reschedule.”

        versus

        “My VP won’t be able to meet you at Friday on 4:00PM as we originally intended. I’m sorry about that! We’ll need to reschedule.”

        Just the single exclamation point changes the tone of “I’m sorry about that” from a flat declaration to an inflection of “Gosh, I’m sorry!” without really changing anything.

        I spend a whole lot of time deconflicting schedules and moving things around, along with punting people who want access to the c-suite folks (who often don’t want to see them). Using exclamation points has always been my way of softening down something that would feel more offensive as a declaration.

        I hope that make sense; it’s migraine day. Again.

    5. nep*

      Avoid exclamation points. They are rarely, rarely called for–particularly in professional correspondence. Let your words be forceful if need be.
      My 2 cents.

    6. AnonInfinity*

      I won’t use more than 1 exclamation point per email, and I rarely use one at all. (I don’t count “Thanks!”)

      A former coworker in a forward-facing department ended every! single! sentence! with! an! exclamation! point! Ugh.

    7. LGC*

      Prefacing this by saying I’m a 30 something year-old guy (who admittedly is kind of immature). The optics for me – where I’m taken seriously by default because I’m a dude who isn’t just out of college – are slightly different than for you.

      But I use exclamation points all the time when communicating with customers and internally! My company is very informal (as in, right now I’m at my desk wearing a t-shirt that has Wonder Woman drawn in the style of Daria and I’m a supervisor), so this might not fly in your industry or company.

      That probably is the biggest determining factor, actually. If your company’s culture is more formal, I’d stick with not using exclamations at all. And even in my current position, I tend to only use exclamation points to make myself seem less terse, like the other posters here.

    8. Thlayli*

      its fascinating to me how the new Internet grammar is almost a totally separate language at this point. Internet Grammer uses punctuation in a totally different way to “standard” or “official” English, but you have to remember that it’s still basically a form of slang. Or possibly a separate language / dialect. Either way it’s not appropriate to use Internet Grammar in a workplace where the language is standard English. you should use punctuation and grammer to have their standard meanings in a professional context (at least for another 20 years till management is full of millennials).

      Exclamation marks aren’t necessarily bad, but you have to remember what they are “officially” used for. To denote surprise or shock. To exclaim.

      In your example an exclamation mark really isn’t needed. It sounds like you’re shocked that they got back to you. If they notice it at all it’s more likely to cause a negative impression than a positive one.

    9. Whatsinaname*

      Please don’t use them unless you’re quoting someone. You’re the one writing the email, so no need to quote yourself. I’m a manager and that would make me question your competence. I view it as cutesy. Probably not the image that you’re trying to convey.

      1. Whatsinaname*

        Ugh, head slap. Disregard posting. Note to self, exclamation marks not quotation marks.

    10. The Original K.*

      I tend to be pretty formal in my business communication but I do sprinkle my emails with exclamation points. I use them sparingly. “Thanks! I’ll take a look and get back to you on Monday. Have a good weekend!” I have friends who have been reported to HR for their correspondence sounding “intimidating,” so I avoid this by adding a couple of exclamation points. (If you search the hashtag “#blackwomenatwork” on social media you’ll find some examples.)

      I used to work with a woman who punctuated literally every sentence with an exclamation point, even questions, and frankly I took her less seriously as a result, so I use them judiciously.

  127. rosie*

    I got my student visa! I’m officially heading abroad for my Masters degree.
    Have any AAM readers done this? Tips? I have officially put in my notice at my current job so advice on work transitioning is helpful too.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Congrats! I did a study abroad. Not sure if that’s comparable, haha.

      Some things to think about before you get over there: Banking, phone, health insurance, housing, transportation.

      Can you use the same bank or will you need to get one over there? My school required that I have a local bank. Can you use the same phone? Can you just switch your sim card? Do you need to get a plan over there? Can you use the health insurance through your school? Which area of town do you want to live in? Will your school help you with housing or do you need a realtor? Is there a train system or will you need a car? How do you get your driver’s license? Is there a student train pass you can get?

    2. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      Yay!
      (I did this before).
      Make sure your passport is updated to well past the date the masters course is completed.
      Bring your diploma or a certified copy with you, along with all health records, and a spare laptop in case.
      Also: bring charger converters (electric plug sockets vary by country) which can be found at travel stores.
      Research the terrain (e.g., bring a really good umbrella if it’s rainy there, or buy cheap hiking boots if you want to go hiking).

      Have fun!

    3. AeroEngineer*

      It will really depend on the country you are going to. I did my masters abroad, and while I would highly recommend it to people, there are some things to keep in mind:

      1. Banking: what bank, can you get a student account etc etc etc? (If you are american, there are lots of tax obligations and things to keep in mind. This also makes it that some banks will not want to open an account for you, so you might need to go through the university partner bank to get an account) Transferring/exchanging money through a website like xe if the currency is not the same can make it reasonable, if you can wait a bit.

      2. Health: Organize everything before you leave, get copies of all important info + a copy of your most recent dental xrays

      3. Housing: Where I did my masters housing was absolutely insane (all major cities in this country are insane for housing, it makes it into the news often). Is it feasable to find something on your own or possible to to get something through the university .

      4. Education: How is the system set up? I went from a semester 4 year program in the US for my bachelors, to a completely different system with quarters and final exams being worth 100% of my grade, oh and the grades themselves not mattering as much (or at all as long as it was a pass). This really messed me up my first quarter as I severely underestimated the differences in the courseload and layout.

      5. Figure out the public transit (if there is some). There might be a student discount, or a transit physical card which makes things overall cheaper and easier. Translating drivers licenses is much more complex depending on what country you are from and go to, and normally after 6 months in that country your home license becomes invalid (there are some ways to extend this, like with an international drivers license, but needs some research)

      6. Make sure you enjoy your time though! Things might be a little tough the first few months, but power through and make sure to explore :)

    4. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Rather than bringing everything and the kitchen sink with you, I’d plan to just buy some things when you get there. Of course this depends on the country, but stuff like pots and pans, umbrellas, stationery, winter gear like basic hats, etc are usually readily available.

  128. Anonymous Pterodactyl*

    Resume question for the crowd!

    Alison’s got a ton of great advice for quote-unquote regular resumes, but I know it’s come up before that that’s not applicable to all fields. Academia and government, for example.

    Can any federal employees offer some insight into what is expected in a resume for a government job? What are the major differences in expected content? (For example, I know that it’s standard practice to list if you’re a citizen, where that’s definitely not standard for private companies.) What makes a resume for a government job stand out enough to get moved forward in the process?

    Relatedly, back when I was fresh out of grad school, I applied for some government jobs that asked for writing samples as part of the application. At that time, I used sections of papers I had written while in school, because they were relatively recent and topical to the job. But I’m now five years out from graduation, and I don’t currently work in a field that uses my writing skills at all. How should I handle applying for those jobs now? Does the content of a writing sample submission need to have something to do with the job that’s being applied for?

    1. OtterB*

      My husband was hired for a government position in engineering several years ago, after having been rejected a couple of time for similar positions in previous years. He had not acquired any additional experience relevant to the position in the intervening time (he’d been working an area that was tangentially but not directly related). What he did was toss out the advice about keeping his resume short, and instead go into greater detail about his experience and put greater attention on making sure the right keywords were present than on readability. The initial screens were going to be done by someone without the technical knowledge to recognize that experience in A was functionally equivalent to experience in B. Even though the hiring manager would understand that, it didn’t matter if the resume didn’t clear the bar to forward to the hiring manager.

    2. Emi.*

      Idk about writing samples, but for resumes you want to go into a lot of detail. The normal limits on length don’t apply because the way USAJobs formats things, one degree and one job could take up a whole page. (It’s also really ugly, but I digress.) Read the position requirements carefully and make sure you list how you fit them explicitly. E.g when I applied for a position that required a certain number of credit hours in statistics, I put “including X hours of statistics” in the notes section for my degree.

    3. Mananana*

      I highly recommend checking out the resources you can find by googling “the resume place” which is Kathryn Troutman’s website. She is a federal-resume guru. And you don’t have to purchase her books; you can learn a lot by going through her free resources.

      Also, if the hiring agency allows him to do so, have him upload his own resume rather than using the USAJobs-generated resume. Because the one they’ll generate for you if you use their resume builder comes out as a single-spaced monstrosity. I’ve seen 20-page resumes submitted for an entry-level job because the applicant used the builder.

    4. Whatsinaname*

      USAJobs basically offers a resume template. You can chose to use that or upload you’re own. I would advise you to just use the template, because there’s information required that you usually wouldn’t supply on a private industry resume. When I review applications, I really don’t care that you used a fancy layout for your resume. What I’m really looking for is content. Also, the two page length advice for private industry does not apply. Your resume, unless you’re at the very beginning of your career will likely be more than two pages, simply because of the extra information. If you do chose to provide your own resume, include references and the name and phone number of your current/previous employer. Nothing turns me off quicker than a resume that doesn’t have that. In addition, if you’re using industry specific acronyms, spell them out. Really, what makes a resume stand out is that it actually reflects your expertise and why you’re qualified for the job. You really, really need to closely review the job announcement and tailor your resume to what is in the announcement. Depending on the federal agency you’re applying to, cover letters might be of no importance. None of the jobs I’ve applied for nor the ones that I’ve reviewed resumes for needed a cover letter nor did we expect one. Other than that, all the other advice given applies. One pet peeve that I have, but that usually applies to applicants who are already federal employees, is that they copy and paste their job description instead of describing what they actually do. Job descriptions are easily identifiable due to the unique style and as soon as I see that on a resume, I will disqualify the applicant. If you’re too lazy to put in the effort in order to get the job, you will probably be not the top performing employee that I’m looking for.

  129. Notapirate*

    How do you handle co-workers’ stress? My desk mate has been increasingly stressed and frustrated with her job. Her complaints are valid she’s not overreacting or such. But I’m tired of feeling dragged down by her moods, like I can’t be in a cheerful mood at work because she’s upset.

    Also just listening to her vent is stressing me out. Like some sort of viral second hand stress. Any advice for emotionally disengaging?

    1. Anna Canuck*

      Gift her a copy of “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck” after reading it yourself. :) It is a lovely read.

    2. Nacho*

      I used to have the same problem with about half my coworkers after a major re-org fused all our jobs, and gave them a host of new responsibilities, while a lot of their old responsibilities were planned to be phased out soon, so there was no point in training us on them. I could empathize with the fact that they now had more responsibilities than us (though not harder ones, and since we’re all hourly it’s not like they were doing more work than us), but it eventually got really tiring of how much they, and one of them in particular, would complain. So one day, after a little over a month of complaints about things we had no control over, I snapped a little and told them they were complaining way too much about things that weren’t nearly as big of a deal as they were making them out to be. They fought with me a little while I said it, but afterwards they did seriously complain a lot less, because they knew it was bothering me.

      So maybe don’t snap at your coworker and belittle her frustration, but you can definitely talk to her while she’s complaining and tell her you don’t want to hear it.

      1. NotaPirate*

        Yeah, snapping would stop the behavior but probably cost the good working relationship. I’ll try changing the subject more bluntly.

    3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I like to ask these people what they are going to do about it. That usually stops their complaining. One guy I worked with would respond with, “Well I’m just going to quit and find a new job!” so I started asking him how the job search was going every time he started to complain, and that shut him down.

      2. NotaPirate*

        I like this. It would also give us something to talk about rather than me just nodding at the litany of complaints.

      3. Kat in VA*

        I like that. “I’m sorry to hear this happened/you feel this way/he did that – what are you going to do, do you think?” might get them off the NNNG NNNG NNNG complaint track and either (a) make them actually think, “Hmm, what CAN I do about this?” or hopefully (b) “I’m complaining a lot about this and should shut up.”

        Some people are just positivity vampires – they complain endlessly, often about the same thing, and just suck the life and happiness out of the room. How do I know this? Because I was one, to my everlasting shame. Because of childhood, personality, reasons, whatever, I always found it far, far easier to be negative and whine and complain and endlessly natter about something rather than be positive about the good things, brainstorm a solution, or just move past the situation.

        It took a childhood friend giving me the boot because, as she put it (bluntly), “All you do is b|tch and moan, and I feel really tired when I spend any time with you. You’re a Negative Nelly and I don’t need that in my life. Seeya.” (not in so many words, she was actually far more blunt). She also noted that I would go off on these diatribes and wind MYSELF up, and “Your negative emotions are spiraling out and feeding on themselves…and me, too.”

        It was the kick in the butt I needed to really examine why it was that I would just go in these circular rounds of complaining about the same thing (boyfriend at the time, parents, job, my hair, whatever) and start making a conscious change.

        I still can get rolling on the Negativity Train, but usually I’ll let myself go *grumble grumble grumble* and then say, “Welp! That’s enough of that! Tell me something good that happened to you / isn’t it awesome all those little Thai boys made it out of the cave / man, the weather is finally cooling off / something good or happy or positive” and go from there. It’s been a long hard road but I think I’m the better for it, and it makes me happy to know that I’m not just WEARING PEOPLE OUT with my constant ranting and raving.

        1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          I’ve been that way myself before, too. Most recently was before I switched jobs last year. I would come home and vent to my husband about the same thing, every day. He would listen patiently but then finally said, “So what are you going to do about it? You can either accept it or get a new job.” And the light bulb went off. So I got a new job. :)

          1. Kat in VA*

            I’m glad you’re in a better place now!

            Sometimes we need a kick in the head to make us realize that we’re engaging in negative personal behavior. I’d much rather hear DANGIT KAT YOU COMPLAIN TOO MUCH than have someone internally sighing, eyeballing their watch to see when I’ll be done ranting!

  130. Environmental Compliance*

    Hubs has one interview in about an hour, had one yesterday, a phone screening the day before, and waiting to hear back from a place he’d interviewed with a while back. I think he’s running out of things to tell his boss of why he’s taking off work.

    1. costume teapot*

      I’ve told my boss that I have a long-running health issue that is taking multiple appointments. Which is true. Some of those appointments are health related. Some aren’t. I just don’t specify.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        That’s what he’s done so far, but for some reason all of these have been scheduled within a week and a half of each other, so his boss is starting to be a little concerned/confused/questioning.

        1. costume teapot*

          “You know how it is, it can take forever to get an appointment. When they told me there was [a cancellation/one available immediately/whatever] I jumped on it so I could get it taken care of right away.”

      1. irene adler*

        Yes- dental visits. They are also scheduled over a short period of time.

        Therapy is a good go-to. Like a weekly visit situation. Only, ” had to grab two appointments in the same week because therapist is on vacation next week”.

  131. Gaia*

    A few weeks back I posted that my company was backtracking on a promise to ensure I’d have a permanent role after I completed my temporary assignment change that they begged me to take and required I live overseas for several months. Things looked pretty bleak and I was livid. Worse the “help” I received in finding a new role within the company was useless at best and demoralizing.

    I took a big leap 3 weeks ago and reached out to a VP that is in a related function (teacups rather than teapots) in the company and asked that she let me know if she heard about any tea holding apparatus positions that might be opening. She cut the conversation short telling me she’d talk to me when she came to town this week.

    Well we met Monday and she said she met with her SVP and if I am interested they’d like to make room in their department for me. I have literally no details except a vague description of the job but I known it is work I want to do with a VP that advocates and supports her team and it means continued employment.

    Nothing is final yet. We have to get a salary approval for the role and approval from HR since this is creating a brand new position but having the VP and SVP support it means it is unlikely they’ll say no without good cause.

    It’ll be a few weeks but this is a big relief if it works out. Send me some good vibes, y’all!

    1. Overeducated*

      What a relief that would be, good for you for taking initiative. Fingers crossed that it works out.

  132. Applesauced*

    Venting –
    Have you noticed that the people who are always SO SO busy or the ones who ROUTINELY work late are also the one’s who socialize the most? This annoying on principle, but it’s much worse when I can’t do my work because Chatty Cathie is just WAY TOO busy to do her part until later….

    In a similar vein – people who are “too busy” for internal meetings. I get it, you have stuff to do. Guess what‽ SO DO I. But I know that this meeting is important so I MADE TIME FOR IT.

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      The Office Jerk in my last department always complained about there being too much work, but instead of trying to actually lower the amount of work we had, he’d just bitch about it all day, standing in people’s offices complaining loudly. And whenever I said, “Hey I’ve got a lot to do today, need to get back to work,” he’d chastise me for “working too hard” and then go on a lecture about our culture at large for another 30 minutes or so. A very exhausting person.

  133. Anon and miserable*

    More of a rant but if anyone has advice please let me know. Prefacing with I can’t leave, which would be the obvious solution, but for health, opportunity, financial, and marriage reasons, I can’t change jobs right now.

    My manager is the most incompetent and ineffective person I’ve ever worked with and it’s killing my ability to be happy. She’s married to a very higher up and it’s pretty clear to all of us why she has the job, and that she has no incentive to improve herself and upper management has no intention of replacing her with someone better.

    She’s …. “nice”…in that she doesn’t yell or swear, but she misinterprets everything and then berates us for things like: she doesn’t assign any work, and then when we try and ask she gets very frustrated and acts like we should just know because it’s our job. This makes most of us just do whatever we can think of, and then she gets either effusive and praising if we happened to get it right and very frustrated and tells us we wasted her time and the company’s money if what we did wasn’t what she wanted. We have repeatedly responded to this by saying that if she wants something specific to please tell us and we’ll do it, and she claims she told us when the entire team has no recollection of this at all. So we ask if she can document what she’s assigned to us in the future and she says that’s a waste of her time as a manager.

    If we’re not doing something that she wants us to do, she won’t tell us for several months and then give us a review about how poorly we’re doing for not hitting that invisible target and again, she gets frustrated when we offer solutions to fix this.

    Her husband, a very high higher up who is not affiliated with our department at all, comes into meetings with her where she needs to “give us a talking to” about our failings, and backs her up, when he has no oversight on our work at all. Sometimes they bicker like a married couple in the meetings. It’s embarrassing and unprofessional.

    There’s no one higher up to go to. I really wish I could just leave but opportunities in this industry are scarce right now in one of the most expensive cities in the world (it’s in the top 10). I don’t think I’m going to be able to leave, at least not yet. Is there any way I can navigate this so I’m less miserable? In addition to hating my work day every day because of the anxiety that there are invisible, moving targets I couldn’t possibly hit by anything other than luck, I’m terrified that I can’t use her as a reference because she’s so poor at judging what’s going on and I don’t trust her to accurately judge the quality of my work. I can use managers from previous jobs but I can’t track a lot of them down after they left the company and none of them will be for my current industry.

    1. SoCalHR*

      Is there an equally high higher up that you could maybe address the problem with? And as Alison has suggested before, approach it in a group so it holds more weight.
      Sadly though, I’ve seen this over and over again and there may not be hope, but it could be worth a try.

      1. Anon and miserable*

        there isn’t unfortunately, and small company with no HR. The good solution really would be to leave but I’m trapped here by insurance (thanks US!) until something else opens up or I risk not treating a progressive disease and also not making rent until I can find something else but I’ve been trying for over a year, the opportunities are just really scarce. I love my field and don’t want to leave but I’m at the point of maybe just abandoning my field so I can work in…SOMETHING, but I know that wouldn’t be good for my work history if I wanted to get back into the field.

    2. NicoleK*

      You’re stuck there. Nothing will change. So work on caring less. That’s what I’m trying to do right now.

  134. SubjectAvocado*

    Long-time lurker here! I’m a recent college grad who just started her first job out of school about a month ago. I interned for this institution last year, which was a really good learning experience and definitely gave me an edge when coming on full-time. I really enjoy my coworkers and the new city. I work in a position where the first two months are primarily independent self-paced online trainings, primarily documents with the occasional video.

    From conversations with my manager and my coworkers, we all recognize it as extremely boring but a necessary evil. The problem is that I *cannot* seem to focus! This was an issue in school as well– unless I have a deadline, I have a difficult time buckling down and working. While my manager insists that I’m not likely to be behind, and that even if I am I have time to catch up, I do think I am starting to really fall behind on these trainings. No one checks in on my progress, and so I constantly find myself off-task. Does anyone have any advice on how to train myself to pay attention to my work and stay on task, particularly when there is very little accountability and it’s extremely dull?

    1. SoCalHR*

      Can you create deadlines for yourself? As in, I have 15 trainings that should take 4 weeks to do, that means I have to x number per week and x number per day, to stay up to date. Which means it will create a sense of urgency if you fall behind in the short term?

    2. Thlayli*

      I work in pharma and I had to read literally hundreds of SOPs in first few weeks on-site. Things I found helpful were:
      1 only spend max half a day on them – if you can get any other work at all
      2 for the documents read them without really trying to understand at first – just let them flow into your brain. Then go back and review them quickly – you get a much better sense the second time.

  135. Pop*

    I just had a job interview this week – yay! – at a small nonprofit with six employees. (It should have been on the phone, but whatever.) While in the interview, the ED, who is doing the hiring, laid out the hiring process for me – this would be the first of FOUR interviews. The first was a half hour informational get to know each other, the second would be a formal interview with just the ED, the third would be a group interview with the staff, and the fourth would be an interview with board members. This is a mid-level position that requires 3 years of experience! Am I totally out of line for thinking that this process is a little over the top? I have interviewed for several similar positions at different size nonprofits around town, and haven’t heard of anything like this at this level – it wouldn’t surprise me for a Director or VP role.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      That does seem over the top. I guess it depends if you want the job enough to go through that process or not.

    2. Princess Scrivener*

      I think it depends on the culture. I work for a huge organization (100k plus employees) and for each of my three positions, I interviewed with HR, potential teammates, mid-level managers, and even a VP, so they could determine whether I was a cultural fit for the company. I’m sure that’s what they’re looking at in your situation, especially since the nonprofit is so small. Congratulations to you, btw!

    3. It's So Hot In Ft Worth*

      I’ve worked every position in non-profit, over the past 20 years. Direct service provider – ED – now contractor. I think non-profits are starting to catch on to more in-depth hiring practices. Back in 2000, my first non-profit interview was with my two bosses and then the ED (but that was cursory). However, my most recent one, I had (5) interviews: phone, in-person with same person, in-person with same person and her ‘boss’; ED and Director staff; and finally with all staff.

      But I will say a mid-level position requiring an interview with the Board is suspect. Will you have any engagement with the Board? And even if you do, your boss is ultimately – the ED. Does the Board not trust the staff/ED decision making? Is the Board always engaged in personnel decisions? Does this indicate the ED isn’t fully empowered to make organization and/or personnel decisions? I ask because I was the ED with this type of Board and I couldn’t make any personnel decisions without them – it was very challenging.

      Also don’t take the ‘informational’ as casual – it’s an interview. Treat it as such no matter what they say it is.

  136. KayEss*

    Really need to start reading the glassdoor reviews of places BEFORE applying… sent in an application this morning to a place that looks great on paper, then went through the glassdoor reviews and saw that they’re all reporting the same management and nepotism issues as the last place I worked, which was a failing nightmare. I guess at least if the reviews are to be believed, there’s little risk of me getting hired because the position will go to a relative of someone in upper management.

    I’m really tired of this… my UI benefits are ending, and the only jobs I’m finding that I’m qualified for are the ones I already applied to and never heard back, posted again. I’ve been waiting 4 weeks to hear back about a fantastic job after what I thought was a great interview, and I’m tempted to check in (one time!) with the hiring manager, but also terrified that the response will be something like “we hired someone else weeks ago, but it’s cute that you think you’re worth a rejection email.” Like, as long as I don’t know, maybe I still have a chance.

    1. nep*

      I feel your struggle.
      I, also, enjoy that short period when things are in limbo and I don’t know; part of me is thinking, Well at least there’s a chance.
      Currently nothing pending…no chances. It’s been way too long and I’d have heard by now if I’m on any shortlists. I’ve not seen a job ad that interests me in several weeks and it’s freaking me out. I’ve got to get some more resumes/applications out there.
      Wishing you all the best.

  137. Gala apple*

    What do you do to bring in money, apart from your full time job?

    I recently started at a non-profit in a role that I enjoy, but pay is a little low. I’d love to have some kind of side hustle to bring in a few hundred more a month, at least.

    1. Anona*

      I know someone who hosts dogs (kinda like a doggie air bnb) through rover.com. They just do it on the side, in addition to their regular jobs.

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I used to do freelance editing/proofreading and writing tutoring. I’ve worked in higher ed all my career so it wasn’t hard to find clients. I only took a few at a time just because I only wanted some side cash and not a full business. It was nice for a while during that time when I didn’t have kids – I’d earn a few hundred dollars a month, and it was a great supplement for the jobs I had in my 20s that paid poorly.

    3. Middle School Teacher*

      I do editing. I have one steady customer who sends me a novel about every 2-3 months, and occasionally some short-term customers (for example, I edited some papers for a nursing student whose first language wasn’t English, so I cleaned up her spelling and grammar and clarified her sentence structure). It doesn’t bring in a ton but it’s pretty low-key.

      1. Middle School Teacher*

        Oh, and I tutor as well. Depending on how many students I manage, I can bring in anywhere from $75-300/month.

    4. The Original K.*

      I have a teacher friend who tutors and because her niche is so specialized (she teaches Latin), she does very well. I do a lot of marketing and communications-related side hustle work – writing and editing content, evaluating content strategy, etc. I typically find those jobs via Upwork. I also do some organizing on the side, which is entirely word of mouth. I started with some family members who have a habit of acquiring and keeping more stuff than they have space for, and it spread from there.

      I know a few pet-lovers who take on pet-sitting and walking gigs via rover, like anona says.

      1. Thlayli*

        When I was in the low paid stage of my career I also did private tutoring for school students. Easy money. I also worked part time all through college and until I had enough money in the bank to feel comfortable stopping I still worked one day a week in a retail place where I had previously worked full time.

    5. admit several*

      I work 10 hrs/week helping a real estate agent with admin and salesforce stuff. 95% from home, whenever I can squeeze it in. $19/hr independent contractor rate is not bad for this type of work. I was offered the job because I used to work for her husband and he knows I’m conscientious and tech savvy, and also seems to think I’m organized?!

  138. Nacho*

    Team Leads at my office underwent a shift bid a few months ago, and I got a new one. I don’t dislike my new boss, but I’m getting tired of feeling like a failure because every week he finds one or two new things I’ve been doing for the past year under Old!Boss that are apparently wrong., and tells me that “I hope you understand that this cannot continue going forward” or that if if I continue to do X I might be placed on a pip. Am I being overly-sensitive here, or is that really strong language for first warnings about things Old!Boss was fine with?

    1. Environmental Compliance*

      It kinda sounds like the PIP is starting to be an empty threat or used to try to show NewBoss feels strongly about what he’s requesting.

  139. Learning from mistakes*

    TL;DR I made an unprofessional/immature decision and lost out two potentially great job opportunities.

    I applied for Job A with a really great company in my field. The job seemed like a perfect fit and would have been a huge step forward for my career. When my mentor heard that I was interested in this company, she immediately connected me with her contact at the company, and it just so happened that this contact’s department had an opening that needed to be filled immediately – Let’s call this Job B. I applied to Job B and went through the first round of interviews just to explore it as an option. Immediately after the first interview, Job B’s hiring manager moved me forward and scheduled me for the second round of interviews, a 2-hour panel interview with the whole team. I took the time to really consider the opportunity and realized it was not the right fit for me. I emailed and called the hiring manager the day before the second interview to let her know that I’d like to withdraw my application. The hiring manager was quite upset, and I know I should have been honest and notified her as soon as possible that I wasn’t interested, rather than waiting until the day before. (To make matters worse, the interview was scheduled on a Monday morning, and I had sent the interview cancellation on a Sunday)

    Two weeks later, I became a finalist for Job A. I did well in the final interview but was ultimately rejected. When asked for post-interview feedback, Job A’s hiring manger told me that Job B’s department had reached out and notified them of my unprofessional exit from their interview process. Because department A and department B work so closely together, my unprofessional interaction had impacted department A’s hiring decision as well.

    My field is really small and notoriously difficult to get a full time job, so I am really bummed that I had lost out on the opportunity. But I know that I should have handled this a lot better – I only have myself to blame. At the very least, this is a good learning opportunity for me. I’ve already apologized to my mentor for burning the bridge with her contact at the company – though she was a bit disappointed in me, she essentially told me not to dwell on it too much.

    1. Glowcat*

      I’m a bit puzzled. Yes, sending the withdrawal on a Sunday evening the day before wasn’t great, but I don’t think it was really unprofessional; doing the interview would have been a waste of time for both of you, since you knew job B wasn’t the best fit. But I also think they shouldn’t have influenced the decision for job A the way they did, and they are the unprofessional ones! People are allowed to choose if a job is right for them! Unless your email was rude, of course, but I don’t have this impression. Or did you call the hiring manager also on Sunday? Then maybe this was the problem… anyway, I’m sorry for you!

      1. OP*

        I sent the email on Sunday, and then followed up with a call on Monday morning. I thought the email I sent was within professional norms – brief, honest, and to the point. But Job B’s team apparently thought that I was extremely interested in the job and then dropped out “without explanation.” I suspect that my email was probably too brief and that I should have gone into details about how the job wasn’t the right fit for my career?

        1. Environmental Compliance*

          I don’t think that they ‘deserved’ really any details other than you didn’t feel the job was a good fit for you. They don’t need to have an entire backstory, and it’s odd and rather rude of them to have contacted another department to pull you out of the running for a separate job.

            1. Kat in VA*

              I agree. That’s vindictive as hell to intentionally tank a candidate’s opportunity in another department because you’re miffed they didn’t want to go to the prom with you. The OP sent an email and followed up with a phone call; it’s not like they just ghosted on the interview!

              They don’t need an explanation – isn’t that supposed to be the beauty of “at will” employment? Your employer can fire you and you can walk off a job because you don’t like the way your employee/boss does their hair, or those stupid cat earrings they wear, or the obnoxious Friday polyester striped jumpsuit they wear EVERY.SINGLE.FRIDAY.

              Just loooove how companies can jack around employees for but still hold those employees to the very high standards of loyalty and commitment that they, themselves, have not exhibited in decades. /eyeroll/

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      How on earth was your action an “unprofessional/immature decision”? You interviewed for a job, decided it wasn’t a good fit, and didn’t move forward with the process. That happens all the time and is no big deal. I think we are missing something here.

      1. OP*

        Honestly, I am just as confused as you are. I wish I could give you more information, but this is really all there is to the story, at least from my perspective.

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      How long was there between scheduling the second interview and the interview itself? If there was plenty of time between scheduling the interview and the interview happening, then it’s slightly problematic to pull out at the last minute (when you could have done so earlier).

      That’s the only explanation that makes sense to me, other than inappropriate tone in your email or phone call. It sounds like the hiring manager is really overreacting.

  140. KR*

    I need organizing help! My job relies on emailing and people getting back to me. So if someone asks me to order something, I first have to ask a bunch of people for quotes, get the quotes back, compare, make a PO which usually takes a day to get approved by my manager then I have to send it back to the suppliers and get shipping confirmation out to the right people, ect. A lot of my other duties have multiple steps and involve emailing multiple people to get pieces of information or to have them do their part which only they can do. Sometimes when I do things people respond back to me right away and I can move forward right away and sometimes it takes a long long time. So the nature of my job is that very rarely can I sit down and spend half an hour or an hour and just get something done.. I need to send a bunch of emails, wait however long until people get back to me, everything is done in bursts. I’m having issues trying to track my work in the various things I might be waiting on but also trying to get things done because if my boss tells me to go buy something or do something but none of my suppliers/coworkers are able to get quotes fast for whatever reason then there’s nothing I can do to speed that up – I can’t make someone respond to me quickly. Sorry I’m not sure how to phrase this better. So for people who have similar jobs how do you track your work, keep track of emails , and manage expectations and timelines. I’m finding that I’m feeling bad about myself because I don’t know how long things should be taking and sometimes things are just out of my control and I can’t make them go faster and I feel bad for that.

    1. Fishsticks*

      You’re best bet might be to make either a tracking list or spreadsheet where you list the task, steps you need to do and then make notes. If you repeat some tasks frequently, you could make a task list that you just refill in. Here’s an example
      Task: Order Teapot
      1. get quote
      a. email person (emailed on x date, followed up on y date) approved z date
      2. get approval
      a. email person (emailed on x date, followed up on y date) approved z date
      3. order

      Obviously, yours will be much more in-depth, but I use this sort of strategy when booking travel so I can tell at a glance where I am and what needs to be done. It may take a bit of time to set up, but will go quicker as you get used to it. I can’t help with the timelines unfortunately, but I think Allison has answered a question or two about it

      1. KR*

        Thank you so much. I’ve been thinking about starting something like this. I like the idea of using a template too.

        1. Margery*

          You could also set up tasks in outlook – e.g. once you’ve requested quotes drag it to your task bar and put in a date when you should be getting a quote back. If it’s not received simply send them a reminder. Then if your boss asks you’re covered as you’ve been chasing people up.

          I agree about the spreadsheet – and once you start using it you’ll feel more organised and on top of things.

          2. Fishsticks*

            To continue off the reminder thing, I use a combination of a task list and Todoist and I love todoist because you can customize the reminders and the projects so easily. It’s pretty simple to pick up and the help articles are good too!

    2. foolofgrace*

      People will probably promote Outlook’s Task function to keep track of these tasks, and that’s one good solution. One job where I wasn’t really up to snuff on Outlook, I used Evernote to note down every task I did every day, and when it was done I would strkethru it. I could easily scroll down and the tasks that were undone would stand out because they weren’t strikethru’d. At first this seemed like a lot of work but it soon became just matter of fact. I suppose you could do the same thing in Word, keep a sort of daily log.

    3. paper pusher*

      This may or may not be helpful, but a very small slice of my job involves tasks similar to what you describe. Because I don’t have time to set up and maintain a separate tracking system, I use my email system to tag emails as either “to do” or “waiting for”. I put crucial time reminders in my calendar, and when prompted by those reminders go through the “waiting for” emails to follow up as necessary. For the most part, this has worked to keep me mostly on top of this function. And I do plan to create some sort of tracking system in the near future, because this slice has grown enough that I am hiring a full-time person to deal with it- yay.

    4. Thlayli*

      Some good ideas here – one I don’t see mentioned is using outlook folders eg a folder for open jobs and completed jobs, within which is a subfolder for each job. In that subfolder you put all the emails – original request, your quote requests, returned quotes, P.O. request, returned P.O. etc. Once you add your final shipping confirmation you move the subfolder to the “completed” folder (or better yet to “completed July 2018” so you have a number of completed folders). Combine this with a tracking spreadsheet and make a specific name for each job (or number corresponding to a number in the spreadsheet) and it makes the emails easily searchable too as you can search by name or number.

      1. Thlayli*

        (You put th official name or number somewhere in give subject line of each email related to the job) eg “request 007”.

  141. Glowcat*

    I was reflecting on an article I read a few days ago (I can link it, but it’s not really relevant; it’s the idea in it); I would like an opinion, since I have the impression that I am becoming grumpy.
    The argument was that women don’t pursue careers in certain fields because they miss a female mentor. While I absolutely agree that women should take whatever career they want, don’t you also find that the “we need female mentors and role models” is sexist, other that silly?
    Silly because if we all wait for someone else to be first, no one will ever move. Who is going to be the mentors’ mentor?
    Sexist because it seems to reinforce the idea that women can/should only network with other women, and we all know how damaging this is. It’s the reason why the all-guy beach weekend of two days ago was such a bad idea, btw.
    As far as I know, I am the only woman in my (very specialized, STEM) field, should I change job? Tell my supervisor that he can’t be my mentor because he’s a man? Can’t we just tell women that they don’t need another woman to be already there, and if there are no other women it doesn’t mean that “it’s not a women’s job”?

    1. YetAnotherGenXDevManager*

      In 18 years in tech, I’ve had both male and female mentors.

      To be fair, the male mentors have gotten me farther in my career because they’ve been higher up/had better ability to open the doors of the old boys club.

      The female mentors have been more invaluable though – they’re the ones who know that VP X hates signoff A in emails, or that VP C prefers people presenting to dress in way F, or that Director J is known to be difficult to work with, etc. Or that Developer V has been an ass and condescending to every woman ever hired on his team, so it’s not me, it’s him. The guys all have the basics of the company and the roles and relationships down, the women all seem to know that background data that a guy just generally doesn’t need to know/isn’t judged as harshly on.

      I guess for me it’s that men are for sponsorship, and women are for mentorship. And both are important.

    2. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      This is an interesting question. I can see this both ways, to a certain extent, although both perspectives are rooted in different contexts.

      My 40 hour per week, primary job is in banking. I am a female. Most of my mentors have been women (mostly because banking at the branch level seems to be dominated by women), but I have also had male mentors, and they have been just as good mentors as my female mentors have been. These relationships have been helpful and comfortable regardless of gender. So, in this context, it does seem like a weird and goofy idea that women only seek jobs where there are other women to mentor them and to network with. There shouldn’t be an unspoken “women can only network with other women” notion, or an idea that because there are currently no women in a field means that women shouldn’t be there. That’s ridiculous.

      I am also a pastor. There are still a lot of folks out there who hold the opinion that women can’t or shouldn’t be pastors, for various reasons. A woman who is now one of my mentors was the first female who I ever heard give a sermon. Had I not seen her get up and preach, I don’t know that I would have pursued pastoral ministry as a career. I don’t know if I would have even considered it to be an option for me. If she were not my mentor, and if I didn’t network with her and with a few other female pastors who I have gotten to know, I would probably struggle. In this context, the camaraderie and the “I’ve experienced this, too–don’t get discouraged and keep going” is very important.

    3. AMPG*

      Honestly, I think you’re REALLY reading too much into this article (obviously, I’m just going on my understanding of your description in it). It’s not a bad thing to want to see other people who look like you succeeding in a field before you feel that it’s worth your while to pursue a career in it. Some people don’t care about that at all, which is fine, but other people who may be deciding between two or more career paths would prefer to take the path where they feel like they won’t have to be the only representative of their demographic group. It sucks to be the only one fighting battles for yourself, even if the only reason it’s happening is because nobody else even knows what specific challenges you might be facing.

      I also really doubt the article was saying that women should only network with or by mentored by other women (if I’m wrong, please disregard this entire paragraph). Women’s networks and women mentors are useful for the reason I mentioned above – women who’ve faced specific challenges due to being a women in an underrepresented field have specific knowledge and advice that men won’t have. But that doesn’t mean that men aren’t useful as mentors or networking contacts.

      1. Glowcat*

        Yes, I’m reading way too much, that’s why I asked for other opinions :) and thanks for giving them!
        Anyway, as you and others said, I agree that it makes people more comfortable to work with other people like them; I was just thinking that we can say that we’re allowed to give up this comfort if we want, instead of waiting for things to improve on their own. I think there’s nothing wrong in writing “yes women, we’ll face a lot of challenges but we should try anyway, because this is how you change the situation”, but I rarely read such articles.
        Concerning your second paragraph… well, the article did not *explicitly* said that, but it completely ignored networking with men, as if it wasn’t an option for women. It really gave the idea of a wall between sexes, in a place where sex and gender should not matter; this is what made me snap, I guess.

    4. KayEss*

      As galling as it is, I think there is a real subliminal impact to not seeing women in a job, particularly from a young age. Intellectually, we’re aware that women can and should be able to do any job a man does, but there are a lot of subconscious factors that go into whether or not you feel comfortable doing something–and a big one for a lot of people is whether or not they’ve seen someone like them do it before. Not even in an emulating or hero-worship sense, but on a basic level of just not feeling wrong and alienated.

      Women mentors are also especially valuable in fields with few women in them, because they can address and guide mentees through issues that are unique to women in male-dominated environments. However, it’s wildly wrong to somehow place the blame for a field not having enough women entering it on the women who are already there not doing sufficient mentoring–there are likely much larger issues of hostility and difficulty that need to be addressed, and the men in the field are not doing their due diligence to make it welcoming to women.

    5. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I can see why you’re asking, but there’s a real importance in mentoring relationships and the dearth of mentors of a particular group (female, minority, etc) can have some real drawbacks:

      1. People in a position to be mentors tend, whether consciously or not, to give the most and best attention to potential mentees who are like them. If all the mentor figures are white males, their mentorship is going to be most commonly and most effectively bestowed upon white male mentees.
      2. Mentors often help their mentees navigate situations, and the way a young woman, or a person of color, would navigate a situation may be different from how a white person or a man would navigate it. A female mentor, for example, can provide better mentoring on appropriate clothing in the office. Personal anecdote on this: My prior manager, who was overall excellent, was telling the team that we needed to dress up for a visit from higher-ups. “Guys, you don’t necessarily need the blazer, but please be in a shirt and tie. Ladies… um, well, I don’t know what the equivalent is for you, but please look nice.” Did he mean anything bad by it? Absolutely not! But it showed the difference in the kind of guidance he could offer.

    6. Lady Kelvin*

      I don’t think it is sexist because I find that there are things that I can speak to my female “mentors” about that a male mentor would be clueless or un-impacted by and therefore unable to give me advice. I work in a male dominated field where the only other woman on my team is my boss. I can go to her to ask about what I am supposed to do when coworker A is skirting the line between being appropriate and making me uncomfortable. I can look at another woman who is also the only woman on her team in another branch of our office who is a bad-ass, and has a 2 year old kiddo and is still considered a bad-ass so I worry less about torpedoing my career because I’m having a kid in a couple of months. My male coworkers have kids too, but when coworker B’s wife had a kid he took 2 weeks off and worked several half-days during that time. I’m not going to be able to do that. All the married with kids men on my team have full time SAH wives, which is awesome for them, but not realistic for me. My husband and I both have somewhat demanding careers and neither of us are willing to give them up to stay home. So I need the example of other women in my field to reassure/convince me that I am not shooting myself in the foot by having children/dealing with harassment/etc that I maybe would be second guessing if I was that pioneer. It is not a surprise that none of my college/graduate school female professors were married or had kids. When they were breaking open the field for women, it just wasn’t possible to do so. Now that there are more of us, we can start proving that we can have families and fulfilling careers. Hopefully our next generation of scientists don’t even have to take those types of things into account.

    7. Thlayli*

      It sounds like you’re interpreting the article to mean “women should not pursue careers in certain fields because they won’t have a female mentor”. But perhaps the article was actually saying “women historically have chosen not to pursue careers in certain fields because they won’t have a female mentor”.

      If it’s the former, I agree it’s a rubbish article, for all the reasons you give. But if it’s the latter, then it’s a good article because it has identified a problem to be solved, even if it didn’t propose a method of solving it.

      1. Glowcat*

        It was a mixture of the two, to be honest. Yes, it started as “historically and even now women don’t choose certain careers because they don’t have female mentors”, but for how it was worded it gave the idea that women can’t have male mentors and that somehow having female mentors would magically solve every problem and discrimination.
        Also, fun fact (with sarcasm mode on): I read the article again after your comment and noticed that the author is a pioneer woman in her field, so… why not writing an article with tips and advice? ;)
        (OK, maybe she did, somewhere else. Just saying.)

    8. The New Wanderer*

      If you’re grumpy than so am I. It literally never occurred to me to not go into my field because women aren’t as well represented. In academia, we are the majority (in my field) and the annual conference is pretty well split, but in industry, I tend to be in the 10% or so of women in the department. I really never had an official mentor relationship in industry. Sadly, of the 10%, it’s pretty evenly split across new, mid-level, and senior women so it’s not like there was a recent influx, it’s a slow if steady stream of women (aka hiring remains at ~10% female despite lip service to diversity).

      So I have known senior female role models, I just never tried to cultivate a mentoring relationship with them any more than with the men. I’m old enough to have worked with a few women who were the first women at their respective universities to earn advanced degrees in X field, but that actually doesn’t date me that much. :-/ I’m sure it was challenging, of course, there are many, many stories of how tough it was. But not a single senior woman I have ever worked with or near, executive, manager, or individual contributor, has made a point of their gender. They just … did their jobs, like everyone else.

      I don’t think there’s much to be done about it other than do a great job and eventually be someone’s role model/mentor. Normalizing the presence of women is the first step to eliminating articles like that.

      1. Glowcat*

        “They just… did their jobs, like everyone else”
        Thanks for saying that! I also pursued my studies and career without ever thinking that I am a woman, and now I realize that a lot of people (both men and women) believe I shouldn’t be where I am just because of that. Fortunately, they are not people working in my field, but it makes me grumpy.

    9. Chaordic One*

      I wouldn’t say it’s silly, but it is kind of disappointing. When I’ve met women who were considered pioneers in their fields most of them didn’t have female mentors. I’ve also heard from some variations of they knew of another woman in their field, but when they actually met they didn’t get along, so they were unable to form a mentor relationship with this other woman.

      The women who were pioneers usually had male mentors and learned what they could from them, and then just kind of bumbled their way through as best they could, and they did O.K. And there are a few who didn’t have any mentors and who just bumbled through trial and error all by themselves. I would imagine that things work similarly with members of different minority communities.

      1. Glowcat*

        Agreed. Pioneers, by definition, have to do with what they have. If we just said that men and women can (gasp!) have working relationships maybe we would see more women willing to go where there aren’t a lot of other women and be a pioneer.

    10. Glowcat*

      Just wanted to thank for all the answers! It was good to see other opinions and to learn that I’m probably making a bigger issue than it is. And sorry for not being up for discussion, I had an unexpectedly busy weekend.

  142. gbca*

    I’m looking for advice on navigating an intern issue. My larger department was assigned a summer intern, a rising senior in college. My colleague (we’re both managers) was assigned to be his manager for the summer, though the intern was assigned a small project in my area. For the most part, I didn’t interact with him too much, but I did invite him to a work event that was really just for fun for him (and during work hours), which he missed because he showed up too late to get transportation there. He was apologetic but never actually offered an explanation for being late.

    Now, my colleague left our department two weeks ago, informally leaving the intern to me. I have since noticed that his flakiness extends past this single incident. For instance, he went to a volunteer event for all the interns and said he’d be back by 12:45. He came in at 3:15 with no explanation. He also seems to leave early, disappear to work on other floors, etc. I’m super swamped in my job – part of the reason I didn’t want to take on an intern this year – and haven’t had a good opportunity to address this with him since I don’t want to call him out at the time in our open cubicle space.

    My question is, should I sit him down to talk about his professionalism, and advise him to be really in tune to his company/department culture when it comes to start/end times and general availability? He will not be getting an offer from us – his actual work wasn’t great either – but he’s a nice guy and I feel some obligation to provide him some career advice. I do feel guilty about not providing this feedback earlier which is why I’m hesitating, but given the awkward transition to me, it took me a bit to calibrate.

    2. Nacho*

      Speaking as somebody who didn’t get professional norms when I first entered the work force, speaking to him now would be a huge favor, and I think it is something you have at least a little obligation to do as his manager. In school, it’s perfectly normal to just skip a class if you don’t feel like going one day, as long as you make up the work/learning on your own, and some people need to be told that that’s not normal in the workforce, no matter how obvious that might seem to you.

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Instead of calling him out at the time in the open workspace, you need to either pull him aside at the time. “Fergus, let’s step into the conference room for a moment so we can discuss something” or you set up a meeting in another area for the next morning to discuss.

      You should also be having some one on ones with him as a general rule which is also a good way to stay on top of these things.

      For how to address now… be honest. Set him down and start with “I will have to start this conversation with an apology. I should have addressed this sooner, but wasn’t able to. Then launch into the coaching and end with. Again, we should have had this conversation sooner and I haven’t made my expectations clear. That being said, this is what I need you to do going forward.

      By admitting to this early on, you will address the natural reaction of “But why is this suddenly a problem?”

    4. Thlayli*

      You would be doing him a great favour if you told him that actually coming into work when you’re supposed to be working is pretty much required in all workplaces. however you are not obligated to tell him that. It’s pretty flipping obvious and he should be able to figure it out for himself.

  143. Indefinite Contract Attorney*

    I’m on an indefinite contract with, let’s say, a tea manufacturing company via a legal staffing company. I get no benefits, PTO, nothing but a paycheck with my taxes taken out. It was a bit of a risky opportunity to take, but it turns out I don’t like the company culture very much and the type of work I am doing is not something that has me jumping out of bed in the morning. Days are slow and long and the dedication to remaining a company of luddites is really starting to get to me.

    I’ve started having a bit of traction with other opportunities, but I’m trying to figure out how to explain A: why I’m looking to leave after less than a year, and B: why I am looking to try a new industry (and in some cases, a new geographic region.) The answer to A is that, well. It’s a temporary indefinite contract. I could be asked to go home tomorrow, or kept on for another year. This in addition to having absolutely no benefits, paying my insurance out of pocket, and an inability to take a day off without the financial hit (not to mention the absurd strain it is going to be as soon as my loan payments get started). And that’s just the whole “I’m a human adult who needs to pay money to survive in America” part. Doesn’t even touch the rest of why I wouldn’t want to stay on even if they offered me a permanent position. B is that I took this industry because I was laid off, not because I had any interest in it. And getting into my industry of interest is extremely difficult.

    Any advice (or even just general encouragement to keep going, urf!) would be much appreciated!!

    1. neverjaunty*

      You do have a ready-made answer in the form of (A), so I wouldn’t worry about any other reasons for moving on. Keep looking! The legal market has gotten better.

    2. paper pusher*

      I agree. I think being in a contract position in and of itself is a good reason to keep looking. Life is too short to stay stuck somewhere you don’t want to be. My only other advice is to be sure to emphasize how the skills in your current industry translate to the industry you wish to enter.

  144. AAPT in DC here we come*

    Hey y’all,

    tldr: How do you write your name on your business card when you don’t go by your first name?

    Small thing but I would rather not have to explain to everyone that I go by my last name. Would you add a line about that on the card?

    thanks all!

    1. Indefinite Contract Attorney*

      First initial, last name? Also introduce yourself by your last name! Or “I’m Ruby Winters, but please call me Winters.”

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        ^This is often what I’ve seen, with those that go by their last name or by their middle name. I think it looks professional that way.

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I like the suggestions about first initial then last name, but will add your preferred name in quotes.

      You: A. Winterbottom “Winterbottom”
      Nickname Indication: Zeke Bunnyfluffins “Z”

      It looks a little weird because this is usually used for a nickname, but I think it’s common enough that people will recognize what you’re trying to say. If nothing else it might prompt people to ask about it then you can explain “Oh, I typically go by my last name”

  145. Niamuniamu*

    How do I leave a job when I have to request any time off a few weeks in advance? I can take a sick day here and there to interview, but they are incredibly nosy here about EVERYTHING to do with time-off. I’m getting really discouraged and it feels like the walls are closing in sometimes. :(

    1. Auntie Social*

      If you have any kind of pain issues (even temporary) then going to physical therapy is a good excuse. There’s usually a series of appointments and they’re not all at the same time. So it could be that your luxating patella/sciatica/old football injury is bothering you again, and you need to go to PT for a while.
      Darned old football injury—your father and I begged you not to go to Grambling.

      1. Niamuniamu*

        That’s a good idea! I just know that my manager takes these things so seriously, so I’ll feel absolutely awful when she’s trying to have a heart-to-heart, getting everyone to sign “sorry you’re not feeling well” cards, and just going the extra mile when it comes to sympathy. It’s really only the ridiculous workload that I’m trying to escape, so I feel there’s no ‘nice’ way to leave. Unless of course I just tell them I’m job hunting and want to go part-time to finish projects up, but that’s so risky and I have a mortgage to pay…

    2. foolofgrace*

      Well, just because they ask doesn’t mean you have to answer, or answer truthfully. I like the phrasing I read elsewhere here that you have an ongoing health situation that is being managed. Period.

  146. neverjaunty*

    I just listened to the AAM podcast episode about the Slacker Co-worker and…. surely I can’t be the only one was surprised that nobody thought ‘this guy wants to be my best buddy’ was not a happy coincidence? OF COURSE he wants to be pals, he knows that he can get away with screwing around if you’re his friend and feel bad about telling the boss/refusing to cover for him.

    I mean, surely I can’t be the only person who’s ever worked with Glad-Handing Fergus?

  147. CurlzMT*

    In preparation for a review, how can I showcase achievements and show my worth in a low-level office job? I came on as an Administrative Assistant and I love my job. However, I feel like I don’t really have “achievements” – it wouldn’t be in my role to innovate a new product or launch a marketing campaign. What I do every day is interact with clients (forward their requests if they need certain docs, ie an MSDS), answer the sales phone, keep the VP of Sales organized and the Sales department running smoothly, and track things in the sales process like samples, POs, pricing requests. I can’t really think of anything “outstanding” I’ve done even though I work hard and keep our important data organized. Does anyone have any ideas of what I can bring up? So far all I’ve got are things like “Improved sales powerpoint for clients”, “Made new PO confirmation template”, “tracked samples and follow ups effectively.” Anyone have any inspiration for other good points I can bring up? I’m feeling rather useless trying to do this (even though I know I’m not!)

    1. foolofgrace*

      I read elsewhere Alison recommending pretending you’re describing your job duties to a friend, and describe how you do them better than other people. Stress the organizational aptitudes. Have you streamlined any procedures? Are you dependable to a fault? Etc. Good luck.

    2. wingmaster*

      This is something I’m trying to figure out too! I am in an entry-level assistant job. I also interact with vendors and keep track of samples (I’m in apparel sourcing and development). Many of my “achievements” aren’t quantitative. I don’t deal with money or numbers, so it makes it harder.

      Does your department have company goals? Does your supervisor/boss have goals for you? For me, I have my “launch plan” and continue to look over this list and check mark any goals that I completed. At the end of the day, I write down what tasks I have done too. This is to help me reflect the week.

      Maybe you also note how many clients you interact with, or how big is your office that you’re helping with. How many samples, POs, etc would you keep track of? Maybe that could be accomplishments with numbers.

    3. Cruciatus*

      I had these same issues. Is there anything your boss/clients/coworkers/anyone has praised you for? That may help get you started! And what would someone bad at your job look like? What would they miss or just be bad at? That may help you see ways you’re really doing a good job that you don’t even notice anymore. And try looking at a list of resume verbs “organized, solved, overhauled,” and see if you can finish those sentences. I created…an improved PO confirmation template that saves 5 minutes in process, and saves 400 minutes every month. I overhauled…the filing system so that files are all alphabetical, chronological and has improved efficiency. I am proactive to my boss’s needs and have X and Y completed before she needs them. I…improved sales PowerPoint for clients and have received great feedback from some of our biggest clients. Have excellent track record of keeping department running smoothly, and out of 100 processes, only 2 issues arose and were resolved quickly. Are there any numbers you can add (ex: work successfully with 25 different clients weekly managing their requests from start to finish of process). How many sales phone calls do you get/help with? How many clients? Good luck!

    4. Mephyle*

      In fact, after searching I found this has been written about more than once at AAM.
      • How to list accomplishments on your resume when your job doesn’t have easy measures (June 2013)
      • How can I write a resume when my jobs don’t have measurable results? (Nov. 2017)
      This one, although answering a somewhat different question, also has a relevant answer:
      • How can my resume demonstrate initiative, problem-solving, work ethic, and other qualities? (Sept. 2014)

  148. Need Advice About Two Co-Workers*

    I work as part of a team. We don’t really have a boss in our office, but I have somehow become the default leader of this crew. One employee, “Beth” is an older woman. The other is “Katie” who is fresh out of school, new to the group, and while she has wonderfully creative ideas, she doesn’t have a clue of how to work with people.

    Beth has been here longer than I have, is the quiet sort, and is very religious, but not “in your face” about it. The extent of Beth’s devotions that I have witnessed are:
    1. Silently praying before meals (the only reason you’d notice is she makes ‘the sign of the cross’) 2. Having a picture frame with a cross and a photo of her family on her desk
    3. Wearing a small gold cross necklace

    Katie has been bad mouthing Beth to the rest of the team, claiming her religion is misogynist, that Beth herself is wrong for being religious, and making assumptions about Beth’s political affiliations because of her religion (Catholic). When Katie started her tirade with me, I told her she was way off the mark, and asked if Beth had proselytized to her. Katie said she hadn’t, but that she “couldn’t be in the same room with someone who believes in a ‘Big Sky Dude.'” I’m not even kidding or exaggerating that last quote…

    Anyway, someone else in our team called our boss about all of this (I doubt it was Beth), and he called me and asked me to have a meeting with everyone and remind them that small, personal expressions of religion are completely acceptable in our office. So, I did that when we had our weekly check in.

    Katie got very upset, left the room, and later came to see me in my office. She said she could not understand why we were allowing Beth to “oppress” her. I asked her how Beth’s jewelry, photo, and silent prayer before a meal was “oppressive.” Katie stated just the mere presence of Beth’s religion was offensive to her. I told Katie that we would allow a Jewish man to wear a yamaka, a Muslim woman to wear a hijab, so the cross was the same thing. Katie started screaming it wasn’t and I was “too old to understand.”

    She left my office angry.

    The past two weeks have been Hell. Katie refuses to talk to anyone on the team. If we ask her for something, her answer is, “I’ll email you.” Period.

    Did I do something wrong here? Is there something I can do to fix this? I would be 100% behind Katie if Beth was handing out Jack Chick Tracks or trying to get people to join her church, but…she doesn’t. It is literally the three things above that I’ve mentioned.

    2. Anona*

      If you were managing her, you could explain that her behavior is not acceptable, and if it doesn’t change, she may need to be terminated. Since you’re not, it depends on whether or not you want to/are obligated to bring it up to the boss.

      And no, it sounds like you did everything right. It just sounds like Katie is a pill.

    3. EA in CA*

      How much do you REALLY need Katie on your team? Is the drama and conflict she has created outweighed by her performance and creative ideas?

      You have a kid throwing a temper tantrum. No one should be screaming at anyone. Two weeks is too long to let this go on. I would loop boss in and recommend disciplinary action on Katie because she is making it really hard for the rest of the team to work. As suggested, it’s way past time for a formal write up.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Oh, Katie, no.

      This is the kind of performative wokeness that drives me up the wall. Beth sounds like she is perfectly respectable and Katie sounds like she spends way too much time on Tumblr.

      I don’t know if I’d say that you did something wrong. This absolutely needed to be addressed with her ASAP because it’s completely inappropriate. Since you are not officially her supervisor, I do think you should loop that person in though (and probably should have immediately after this happened, but now that this is going on for two weeks, it’s time).

      1. Need Advice About Two Co-Workers*

        I’m crafting that email to our Boss and Grand Boss now. Basically I’m asking for help because this is far above my pay grade.

        HR is out of a different office, too. (We’re a satellite office). I’m wondering if I should copy someone there on it or if I’d be overstepping my bounds.

        1. Laurlema01!*

          I think you should cc: HR in on this also. Cover your bases, because this can blow up. Beth can file a grievance, and I wouldn’t blame her.

          1. RoadsLady*

            She easily could and that grievance would likely be valid. Someone is actively trying to push her out of the office over her religion.

            Religion is a protected class (and Beth doesn’t sound like she’s intruding on anyone else’s rights).

            Being paranoid and intolerant is not a protected class.

        1. Kat in VA*

          Hit “Submit” too soon.

          Look, I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in any religion, any god, anything of that sort.

          However, I also totally respect people’s right to religion and to show it as they please. If they are endlessly proselytizing to me, that’s one thing. But wearing a cross, praying before lunch, and having a picture frame with the cross on it are the mildest of religious expressions.

          Heck, I even have a family heirloom from the 20s that’s a gold cross inlaid with rubies. My husband wears a ginormous gold cross with diamonds (I jokingly call it his “Russian Mafia Cross”) because he’s superstitious and thinks bad things happen when he doesn’t wear it (he’s agnostic).

          Being oppressed due to these small displays of religion is ridiculous. Does she scream at someone that they’re culturally appropriating when they wear a dress with a clearly Asian bamboo design, or someone wears their hair in two braids the way some Native Americans did/do?

          People like this can be so tiresome.

    5. Undine*

      You have done nothing wrong, and this is now “above your pay grade”. You need to tell your boss about the meltdown and subsequent behavior and he needs to decide how to proceed. If he wants to take action, he needs to do it himself.

      Something like,

      “You asked me to talk to everyone about religion at the office, and when I talked to Katie, she became quite angry & actually started yelling. I didn’t mention it to you because I was hoping it would blow over, but since then, she has been refusing to interact directly with anyone on the team. I’m concerned this will affect the morale of the whole office and I think this is something that you need to address directly.”

      If he asks you to handle it, you can say, “I am not a manager, and I feel like I don’t have the authority or experience to deal with this. I think it’s really important that you handle it, since you are the one who can determine what the appropriate actions are.”

      1. Need Advice About Two Co-Workers*

        Perfect. Thank you for that. I was struggling with the email. This helps greatly!

        1. Margery*

          OMG – this young ‘Princess’ is bang out of order.

          You’ve done the right thing by going to your manager – who really really really needs to deal with this – please update us if possible.

    6. LCL*

      As others have said, you did great but this needs big HR. But, you know, based on how you describe Katie, her not talking to anyone for now is a win. Eventually it will interefere with her job, but for now enjoy the blessed silence.

    7. Maya Elena*

      If you ask her why it’s oppressive, she’ll give you a line about how Christianity is the dominant cultural religion, so its symbols are inherently oppressive (although a little more knowledge of history will give some more perspective on the contentious history of Catholics vs. Protestants, particularly here in the US – e.g. with Kennedy being the 1st Catholic president and that being a BIG DEAL). (As an aside, the amount of history kids get these days – from anecdotal experience – is practically nil.) It’s the analogous argument that you can’t be racist against white people or (less popular, but still extant) sexist against men.

    8. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Your boss handled this badly. She should have talked to Katie directly, or asked you to do it. Making you have a group meeting to address it? Way to make Beth feel uncomfortable.

      Anyway, tell your boss it didn’t work, Katie is creating a hostile workplace for Beth and anyone else who may be religious, and you’re going to talk to HR so it doesn’t go any further, then do that.

      1. Need Advice About Two Co-Workers*

        Thank you for the reply! I sent an email (very close to what Undine suggested above) to Boss, Grand Boss, and CC’ed HR. I will (hopefully) have an update next Friday.

    9. Sunshine Brite*

      Katie needs to be fired asap. She’s the one who’s discriminating based on religion and making a harassing work environment.

    10. Adele*

      Poor Beth for having to endure this. Poor Katie for having to be the person she is. She will find going along in the workplace and in our society very rough indeed. Does she throw a tantrum every time she passes a church or synagogue or mosque? She needs one warning to shape up and then to be fired. Beliefs be damned, her behavior is unacceptable.

      I say this as a person whose motto on religion is “I don’t need to respect what you believe, but I respect your right to believe it. Just keep me out of it.”

    11. Duffman*

      “Hostile work environment” gets thrown around a lot when it isn’t, but in this case, it’s pretty much there:
      – She is discriminating against a coworker based on their protected class (religion).
      – She’s doing it over a sustained period of time.
      – She’s trying to use this discrimination to tank her coworker’s reputation with the company.
      – The company knows about it (although they don’t know the extent, which is why you need to tell your manager and HR because this is the point where it can shift from being an internal matter to an EEOC matter).

      1. Thlayli*

        This. All of this. That Katie did to Beth was illegal. So illegal. Thankfully she seems to have stopped doing it now, but it still happened.

        Has anyone from the company even discussed this with Beth? Being the victim of religious discrimination in the workplace must have been pretty upsetting for her.

    12. LolaRola*

      I am perusing this particular track because I recently sent in a letter of a similar nature! (I am possibly Beth, don’t consciously push my religion/figure I’m pretty lowkey about it, had HR give me the heads-up someone is going Katie-psycho over it)

    14. Thlayli*

      Katie is the one who is way out of line. Katie is being bigoted and abusive and should have been fired as soon as she started making bigoted and offensive statements in the first place. Since it seems she has stopped the actual abusive language towards Beth, then I guess you don’t need to fire her anymore (though I still think you should). But now you have a new problem – the childish refusal to communicate.

      Tell her she needs to communicate appropriately and cut the attitude. If she doesn’t smarten up asap it’s firing time.

      1. Mephyle*

        Problem with that is is that Needs Advice is technically Katie’s peer, with no standing to fire her.

  149. Coopston*

    I am in a bit of a unique situation regarding raises within my organization. I have been at my institution for almost 2 years, but moved to a new department about 8 months ago. The department I moved to hired 2 people in the same position at the same time, and we have been doing the same work over these 8 months.

    However, a few things have changed in the past few months. My position has taken on a larger role and I have taken on the work of someone who has left, while little to nothing has been taken off my plate to balance it out. I have also been tasked with creating a university wide program that will affect over 1000 students within the next year. It is work I am excited for, but there is a lot on my plate, and my supervisor has recognized that. Along with that, I have recently found out that the individual who started at the same time, in the same position, came in making a few thousand more than me, even though we have the same background and education.

    Because I have been at the institution for almost 2 years my annual review is actually next month, at my 2 year mark instead of my one year mark within this position. Therefore, would you say it is in my right to ask for a raise within this time frame? Especially considering the inequitable pay, and my workload changes?

  150. VeryVeryVeryAnon*

    Trying not to put the cart before the horse here, but… I have an interview right after coming back from vacation (I’m actually “extending my vacation” by a day so I can do this interview). I’ll be at work the rest of that week, and then at a major conference (work isn’t paying travel expenses like they did last year, but I’ll get to count it as time worked that week) and then back.

    If all goes well, and I am doing my best to ensure that it does, I could potentially be submitting my resignation right when I get back from this conference, and I am going to need to come in late that week due to school registration happening while I am gone.
    How can I handle this gracefully.without burning bridges? It’s not unheard of people jumping ship for a few years and coming back at a higher level, which if I were not going to be reporting to my current management structure if I did, I would consider. (My boss and his boss are the main reasons I am leaving, besides woefully under market payment for what I do and accomplish.)

    I’m presenting at the conference, so can’t back out of that, and am on vacation due to my kid’s daycare being closed this next week, so I can’t back out of that either.

    Based on the new company’s benefits, I am going to want to start soon enough that my health insurance kicks in the 1st of the first month, instead of potentially going out of coverage since my coverage ends basically 2 weeks after I leave.

    So, while I want to give 3 weeks notice, if possible, I am potentially looking at only giving 2 weeks given all of the above, and immediately on my return. Advice?

    I plan on telling current boss that I got offered an opportunity I could not turn down (and it is – better commute, if I get what I plan to ask for, better pay, fewer direct reports, a more clear product roadmap, and a better career trajectory available), but being a people-pleasing weirdo I’m still feeling stuck by the fact that this will probably negatively affect my boss and my team. (if you got this far, thanks for reading!)

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      I would not worry about this until you have the written job offer in hand. Counting eggs, and all that. Besides, hiring timelines are never what they tell you they will be.

      Two weeks notice is fine. Giving notice right away when you come back is fine. Coming in late that week is maybe not ideal, but fine.

      Good luck!

      1. VeryVeryVeryAnon*

        Thanks! I think I tend to overthink things. Yes, it’ll blow for my team and my boss in the short term, but that shouldn’t affect my decision.

  151. Anon1*

    Have you ever overheard someone insult you at work – not a colleague, but someone that you do business with?

    Happened to a friend/coworker of mine, and I’m curious to see how other people would react. We’re assistants, and due to the nature of our business, our bosses are really demanding, and we have to be super proactive. Recently my coworker’s boss asked her to call and follow up on a client’s payment. My coworker called the buyer’s assistant saying, “I know we spoke about this last week, but do you have an update on this payment?” Buyer’s assistant said she would check back in with accounting. Coworker thanked her, buyer’s assistant said no problem, right as my coworker was about to hang up, heard the buyer’s assistant say to someone “God she’s so annoying. I guess I don’t know what it’s like to work for that kind of boss, but Jesus leave me alone.”

    My coworker didn’t say anything and hung up, mortified. She has a little bit of job insecurity in general, and this is feeding into it. I’ve been telling her that it says WAY more about the buyer’s assistant, both as a person and an employee. The buyers assistant doesn’t know what it’s like to have a ridiculously demanding boss! A large portion of our job IS constantly following up with people, which can be annoying, but we try to do it as graciously as possible. Honestly, I’d rather an assistant call me annoying than a client not be able to pay rent because their check was late. Also, hang up the phone before you sh*t talk!

    My coworker hasn’t said anything to the other assistant – said she’s too embarrassed and that they work together a fair bit, doesn’t want to make further interactions awkward. Would you have said something in the moment? Or responded after the fact? I just feel so bad that my coworker now dreads any conversation with this assistant when the assistant should be the one feeling embarrassed! I like to think that I would have stood up for myself. However, because the she assists the buyer, power dynamics lean slightly in her favor, and I might have stayed quiet too.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t know that I’d consider this super insulting because it sounds like the buyer knows that this is something she’s being directed to do, but I also have a petty side, so next time I had to call for a follow up, I’d say something like “I know it’s so annoying that I keep calling for updates, but boss insists” and I’d say it cheerfully.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Yeah, I’d be one to do that too. On the petty side of “I want you to know that I heard that, and maybe be a little more careful to make sure you hang up the phone before complaining about the person you were just on the phone with”.

        And then I’d let it go, because in the grand scheme of things, it’s not really worth a whole lot of effort.

    2. fposte*

      I would let it go. It wasn’t personal but about getting nudged, which nobody enjoys even when it’s the appropriate thing to do. On the call I might have laughed and said “Yes, I know reminders can be annoying!” but wouldn’t have considered it something where I needed to stand up for myself. I hope your friend can see it as just situational frustration rather than a read on her personally.

    3. Inspector Spacetime*

      I’d let this one go, for the sake of pleasant interactions in the future and a professional reputation.

    4. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      This happened to me! As I was hanging up with one of my coworkers, he said to someone, “She has zero personality.” I didn’t say anything, I just hung up. And I didn’t say anything to him about it afterwards either. It stung in the moment, but that feeling fades. I barely interact with him, so moving forward, I’ll just pretend I didn’t hear him. It’s not worth it to pick a fight with this guy over it, but if he ever needs a favor from me, I hope he’s patient cause I’m not about to prioritize his stuff! I have zero personality AND I’m petty :)

  152. Starbucks searching on my lunch break*

    People who are job searching, what does your routine look like? The tl;dr is that I’ve created extremely unrealistic expectations for “normal” job search behavior, and I’d like to have a reality check instead of just assuming that everyone else is living up to the nonsensical standards that I’ve convinced myself are the norm. I’m particularly interested in the following questions, but really any chatter about the process of job searching is welcome:

    How often do you check job listings? When (days of the week, time of day)?
    When you find a job that interests you, what are the steps you take between reading the listing and applying to the job?
    About how long do you spend on your cover letter/poking around at the company/tweaking your resume?
    If I said that I applied to a job “late” and didn’t think that my application was worth submitting because so much time had passed since it was posted, how long would you think had passed? Assuming that there’s either no closing date listed or there’s a month long period that they’re accepting applications and the end date hasn’t passed.

    1. Starbucks searching on my lunch break*

      (Basically, I’ve been burning myself out by waking up early to work on applications before work and picking away at them on my lunch break. I’ve been involved in hiring at my job, but it was always in hiring temps in crunch time when we were already stressed and overwhelmed, so I’m sure that’s why my picture of the process is off. I’ve had one week’s notice to put someone in a seat to keep our heads above the water, and once had someone start the day after I’d done the phone interview and decided I liked her. Really unusual circumstances where everyone was pulling 80+ hour weeks, but I can’t get out of that mindset.)

    2. Murphy*

      During my last job search, I looked Tuesday and Friday mornings. Having a set schedule to do it really worked for me. It was those two days mostly because of my work schedule at the time. I had Fridays off and didn’t work until the afternoon on Tuesdays. I didn’t spend a ton of time researching the company or tweaking my resume/cover letter, but I probably wasn’t as smart about that as I would be now if I had to look.

    3. wingmaster*

      At my last search for the current job I am in now, I pretty much did a casual search everyday, usually sending at least 1 resume out. I always get email notifications of current job listings, so I can always do a quick glance over it. If I found a job/company that interested me, I usually send out my application the same day.

    4. Evil HR Person*

      Don’t kill yourself over it. And don’t overthink it: if you see a job posting that closes tomorrow, that just means you saw it one day early :-)

      If you’re running yourself ragged from your early morning search, then do it every other morning – IOW, adjust your schedule to what works for you.

      I, personally, don’t wait until I close the posting to look at the applicants – that’s preposterous! What happens if someone really strong applied the first day? Do I keep her waiting a full month before contacting her? Nope! Most employers pounce on good candidates, no matter when they apply.

    5. Chaordic One*

      I monitor online advertisements daily. When I am job searching I attempt to get applications for the positions with closing deadlines done first, then I concentrate on what sound like the most desireable positions. Filling out applications, customizing a resume and tailoring a cover letter takes time. When a job doesn’t sound so great, but better than my current job, I’ll use a generic resume and a fairly boilerplate cover letter. If a job sounds like of “meh” and I’m swamped, I might not be able to get around to applying for it. Sometimes a couple of weeks will go by with me finding nothing to apply for, and other times I’ll find 3 or 4 to apply for in a single day.

    6. AeroEngineer*

      I check the major companies I would like to work for every day or so, and overall job boards every week.

      I try to have the application in within 1-3 days of finding the posting depending on how enthusiastic I am about it.

      For resumes, I have several main ones depending on country I am applying in, and several other factors.

      I have missed postings so many times by a few days, that as long as it is still open, it is definitely not too late.

  153. Lumos*

    Mostly just ranting. Our new manager has decided we’re not allowed to sit down anymore, all our time punches (from our 3-step inefficient process) have to be absotively perfect, if we’re late we can’t make it up anymore we have to take it out of vacation regardless of how short it is, and we basically can’t do anything at our computers anymore. I have had so many patrons ask me if I’m bored because of how much walking I’ve been doing and joking that they’re counting how many times I go by. Also, asking me why I’m walking so much, or getting antsy because of it. I don’t work retail. ughhhhhhhh

    2. EA in CA*

      um….. you don’t work retail or in a restaurant and you aren’t allowed to sit down? What the what?

      1. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

        I have a sinking feeling this OP is an employee in a public library. I’ve been there, though not to such an extreme extent.

    3. The Other CC*

      Ugh, that sounds awful!

      Do you have to clock out or otherwise get docked for going to the restroom? I worked two summers at a place (not retail or a restaurant) where there literally were not enough chairs/stools for everyone to sit down at their tables and work. Our team of five would trade off who got to sit on the two stools over a 12-hour workday. I ended up drinking a lot of water that summer and using a restroom break every hour or two just to have a chance to sit down.

  154. Lumen*

    Just found out my grand-boss is pregnant. Very happy for her! She pulls so much weight though that I really hope they put some new processes in place before her maternity leave, because otherwise we will be up a creek.

    Just found out my boss may be… well, at very least, open to interviewing elsewhere. Happy for them! But not keen on any of the potential inside hires the company might make to replace them, if that happens. Definitely do not want to take on their role, either. Crossing my fingers that they get this other job because I think it will be good for them, but also hoping that if it happens, we end up hiring from outside.

    Oh, and just found out they’re going to completely reorganize our workload in the second half of this year, even to the point where who I report to may change. I think it’ll be more streamlined, but also… anxiety! Fun.

    @_@ Oof.

  155. Annie Moose*

    I’ve had such a rollercoaster of a day. We had a major problem with a new application that went live last week… major, as in sending thousands of inaccurate records to a federal agency. As in, get-in-the-news, someone-gets-fired major.

    THANK GOD we noticed this only one day after it happened (the application went live earlier but these specific records were only generated for the first time yesterday) so we had time to do something about it…

    …and thank God there managed to be an entirely unrelated bug that prevented the file from actually being sent. Weirdest and most fortuitous coincidence of my life.

    But uhhhhhh yeah. Spent about two hours this morning convinced that as soon as we fixed the problem, every one of us was getting fired. Not great for your stress level, I tell you what.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Wow. Just wow did you luck out on that.

      Enjoy your weekend. You’ve certainly earned it.

      1. Annie Moose*

        The best part is, I’m out on vacation starting tomorrow and all through next week!! If anything bad happens during that time, I literally cannot be responsible for it. (obviously I would feel bad for my coworkers who’d have to deal with it… but I really really don’t want to deal with it either!) And it also means everyone will have a week to calm down before we have a team meeting to dissect what went wrong.

        Weirdly enough, my manager (who can normally be pretty harsh) was actually extremely calm and collected about it; I’m realizing she’s the sort of person who might overreact to little stuff but handles actually major situations responsibly. Which is seriously improving my impression of her. (I’m pretty new to this team so I haven’t seen her in crisis mode before.)

  156. NotActuallyResigning*

    I need advice on the impact of writing a resignation letter when I am not actually resigning.

    I am a postdoctoral fellow in a small field. My position started in August 2016 and, according to my offer letter, would continue through August 2018. However, due to uncontrollable obstacles and thus lack of publications (essential in my field), my manager and I discussed and agreed upon extending my position for at least an additional year to increase my competitiveness in the job market. Since it typically takes a full year to obtain a position in my field, we discussed this in fall of 2017 and I confirmed our agreement weekly, verbal and sometimes via email, from October 2017 through June 2018.

    In June 2018, my manager told me that my position would not continue past August 2018, the date in my offer letter, due to budget cuts. This was not due to performance as I had an excellent performance review the week before and we made detailed goals to achieve for the upcoming year.

    A couple side notes: I have obtained grant funding that covers 75% of my full time position until August 2019. I also announced that I was in my 2nd trimester of pregnancy in May 2018.

    My manager has not asked me for a resignation letter stating that I am resigning on August X, 2018, the date stated in my offer letter. I am obviously not “resigning,” but the situation is similar to being “laid off,” I think?

    Questions: If I wrote this resignation letter (not my preference), what rights or resources that I might lose? If I do have to write a letter, does anyone have a script to professionally communicate “organization is not funding my position and I will no longer be employed by organization after [date]”? I am in a small field and need references/recommendations to get another position, so I don’t want to burn any bridges with a unprofessional/snarky letter. Thanks!

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Why does your manager want this letter? It’s not factually accurate. You potentially would lose the right to collect unemployment if you did this. If pushed, I would write, “This letter is to confirm my understanding of your decision to end up my employment on August X, 2018.” But I don’t know why you’d need to write anything, and I’d ask her to explain that first.

      1. Antilles*

        Agreed. I would not write the letter as described. If NAR gets back a firm “we need a written letter on this”, then I think the letter absolutely needs to get in there that (a) it’s actually their decision and (b) the position is being eliminated due to lack of funding. Do not use the word ‘resign’ or ‘voluntary departure’ or anything along those lines, because that’s not the situation and when it comes to unemployment/health insurance/etc, this is a legal document that needs to be accurate.
        The situation here is that you’re being laid off due to budgetary concerns and your letter needs to convey that, because from the standpoint of the government safety net, that’s a completely different situation than if you’d decided to walk off the job.

      1. Catwoman*

        Yes, and also go to whoever is above your manager and discuss the situation with them, printed emails in hand of the discussions you’ve had with your manager. It’s possible that your manager did not clear this with those higher up the food chain, or–and worse–your manager is lying to you about the reasons of your dismissal and is planning to rehire for the role. The fact that your position is covered by a grant should mean that it’s a non-issue for their budget. Something weird is going on.

  157. Happykarma*

    So, my co-worker was told she has to work for another manager this week. (We are administrators at a large organisation).

    Wow – that went down badly, crying for over 30 minutes. Writing a list of all the jobs she does (she’s not appreciated don’t ya know!). Telling me that she WILL NOT be doing it and I will have to do it.

    Hmmmmm I think she’s forgetting that she has time every day to chat to her colleagues almost none stop, to phone her husband throughout the day and make sure he’s doing his chores, to complain about every other person in the organisation that’s NOT DOING AS MUCH AS HER.

    I’m wondering if this is karma – at last.

    1. Princess Scrivener*

      Love this; you deserve a break, and I bet she’s worried her new manager will make her more accountable for her work (or lack of…).

  158. Waiting for the Sun*

    How to cope with loneliness at work? I’m an admin at a social service agency and by myself a lot during the workday. Caseworkers meet with clients offsite. I enjoy the work, but could use more interaction. Worry that I gab too much when someone is in the office.

    1. Margery*

      One of the reasons I don’t see working from home as a privilege. I really need that interaction.

      Can’t you share an office with some of the case workers? If there was space in their office you could make a list of reasons why it would be beneficial – e.g. better communication.

    2. Inspector Spacetime*

      Saaaaaame. I listen to music, which helps slightly. It’s weird. I’m a major introvert, but I really need other people at the office.

    3. Antilles*

      Can you get away with headphones at work? If so, I’d recommend listening to podcasts – most of them have a couple people on them having a conversation…so it’s not a perfect solution, but still gets you a little of that “hey, there are actual humans talking and I’m not alone in the office” feel.

      1. Chaordic One*

        I hope this doesn’t sound pretentious, but I would recommend listening to some news and talk programs. I really like like listening to NPR and BBC radio. They are interesting and I learn a lot.

    4. Waiting for the Sun*

      Thanks, all. Music does help. Love my Wirk-appropriate Pandora stations!
      BTW, I’m realizing that I really don’t care for rick music at an office. Was at our main office the other day, where they play a local classic-rick station. Found it weirdly irritating!

  159. AlligatorSky*

    Does anyone have any advice on what to do when you run out of things to do at work?

    Often I finish my reports early. Even when I take my time, I still have time left over.

    I do some other tasks like printing or scanning, checking reports and ask around to see if anyone has anything they need help with. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t. When they don’t, I’m literally sitting around with nothing to do. I even ask my boss and he doesn’t have anything for me. I often end up on the BBC Long Reads site, reading articles, because I physically have nothing to do. It just makes me feel like a slacker though. I’m on a contract until October, and I’m worried if people see me looking at news sites, they’ll think I’m slacking off and won’t want me in their team, even though I’ve done all the tasks I’m required to do, and get great reviews/feedback.

    1. Rey*

      Our student employees often pull up Excel courses (usually on coursera, but I know there’s other resources out there). Even if we don’t ever have a project that requires it, it’s something useful for them. Are there other areas like that you could find online courses for?

    2. caledonia*

      Update guidance documents, tidying/sorting old files/desks out/deleting or filing emails, online courses or booking self on training courses. Is there anyone you can shadow in another dept?

    3. wingmaster*

      Whenever I have free time, I always file emails. Do you have weekly 1:1 meetings with your supervisor? I also try to make time to prep whatever I need to discuss with my boss in these meetings.

  160. Pathetic Middle School Feelings*

    Soooo I’ve been sitting on this for awhile because it makes me feel like such a gigantic whiny loser and I thought the problem would fade, but it hasn’t. Basically I’m on the outside of a clique problem on my relatively small team.

    I recently transferred from one part of the company to this new team as part of a bigger reorganization. The team itself is brand new to tackle a new company initiative but it’s comprised of mostly people who worked together on an old team that was dissolved, plus me, and minus two people who were transferred elsewhere. The reason that detail is important is because they still mostly operate as though they’re the old team. There’s a new team Slack/chatroom but everyone still uses the old one for chatting and largely ignore the new one, they go get lunch together, they’ll go work in conference rooms together, they take coffee breaks together, they coordinated a team carpool to the company July 4th party without me, just…dumb little stuff. I thought it would chill after an initial adjustment period but it’s been almost nine months now, and they can just not let their old team go. It’s obvious they miss their team members who were transferred elsewhere, so I don’t begrudge them finding ways to include them/make them feel connected to the team, but it feels really weird as the ONLY new person to be inexplicably left out.

    I have tried to not care and just do my job but we’re a very social office and so it’s always SOMETHING. Either I’ll be surrounded by them all cracking up at something in their old Slack that I’m not in, or I’ll look around and realize I’m the only one in our desk cluster, because they’re all off in another part of the office together. It’s kind of wearing me down.

    Is there a…non-loserish way to ask them to include me? Or is this just my life now.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      This could be either accidental or malicious. People can be kind of self-absorbed and they don’t think of how others might feel. I doubt it’s truly Mean Girls bullying, though.

      There are things you can do! You can ask casually, “Hey, that sounds fun, do you mind if I come?” Or, even better, you can try planning group things yourself. There’s no way people can exclude you if you’re the host. There’s also the “divide and conquer” method of inviting one or two coworkers to get drinks with you after work or something, and then getting to know them that way. All this advice is inspired by Captain Awkward. You might want to check her blog out.

      If none of this helps, then you might be out of luck for work friends. I’d at least give it a shot, though.

      1. Pathetic Middle School Feelings*

        Oh yes, I definitely don’t think it’s malicious! That’s actually what makes it weird — I’ve “divided and conquered” and have perfectly friendly relationships with most of them separately. It’s just never translated into them folding me into their old team dynamic, which they seem like they’ll cling to with their dying breaths. I’ve considered asking if I can join, but it seems to happen pretty naturally/in unspoken ways, so it’s difficult to find a toehold.

        I think I’ve got it in my head that if they WANTED to include me, they would, because as the only person being left behind in these instances, it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t notice. But I’m also pretty insecure, so it’s hard to gauge.

        1. Inspector Spacetime*

          Yeah, I have social anxiety so I totally get where you’re coming from. Maybe you can ask the nicest one if she wouldn’t mind including you next time. Otherwise, you might just have to accept this, as sucky as it is.

        2. Ann O.*

          Can you ask to be added to their old Slack? That seems like a reasonable request and a decent starting point. If they’re organizing gatherings through it, that will also help with that.

  161. Anon for now*

    I’m the store manager of a big box store. I’ve been in my position for two years and I’ve been pretty successful so far. My store is in the top five in the chain, we post consistent sales growth, we hit most of our KPIs, and I have received pretty great annual reviews and usually the feedback from my boss is that she hears great things about me from everyone on the corporate side who interacts with me.
    This is not to brag, but just as an intro so you know the problem is not that I’m a bad employee.

    Our CEO visited my store a couple of months ago, and it did not go great. The feedback from my boss is that he thought I was too quiet, my store did not look good (no specifics and my boss told me day of that it was the best my store had ever looked), and that he was not impressed with me. I will absolutely own up to the fact that I am kind of a quiet person and that I was a bit intimidated during his visit and I could have been more assertive, but I didn’t say anything embarrassing or rude and we spoke for about 20 minutes.

    Immediately after his visit I was passed over for a promotion that had been basically promised to me (as in “we will have an offer letter for you on Monday” had been said to me earlier that week), and my boss told me that I need to learn how to play politics and that I need to go out of my way to talk to and impress the CEO at our yearly management conference. The conference is next week and I have no idea how to approach him or engage him in a positive way. The more I think about it the more terrified I am. I asked my boss for advice and she just said “you know your numbers, just talk to him about that, he’s a numbers guy” but I can’t just walk up, shake his hand, and say “hi, my store is up 15% this year.”

    Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach him or what things I could say to correct his impression of me?

    1. LCL*

      How do raises/promotions usually work in your company? Your boss’ advice sounds good, and yet, something is off. Does the CEO normally get involved in promoting people at your level? I work for a big organization, and I can’t picture the CEO being involved in promotions, unless it was for people reporting directly to him. The first person to wow the CEO with your numbers should have been your boss.

      1. LCL*

        Replying to myself to add, after I reread your letter-you are a great manager and your boss doesn’t want to lose you. So she’s not helping you like she should.

    2. Lulubell*

      If it doesn’t feel too inauthentic/out of character for you, I would go right up to him at the conference and say, “Hey, great to see you again!” Exude confidence. He’ll probably ask how your store is doing, and you can say, “Great, actually, we’re up 15% this year!” And have some reasons ready why that is (our CEO always likes to ask why). Ideally your boss could be with you to sing your praises, but you speaking to him 1:1 would be even more impressive if he really thought you need to be more assertive.

      1. Anon for now*

        Thanks. I think I will try that. I mean if he doesn’t like me there’s not a lot I can do other than continue to be a good employee. Maybe if I just continually make a confident, favorable impression over the next few times I see him he will feel differently in the future.

  162. Spice for this*

    I am looking to find out what style of resume would serve be best for:
    I have 10 plus years of admin, procurement, customer service experience. And about 1 year of HR admin / temp job experience in recruiting with emphasis on using HR software to view/print applications, calling applicants to schedule interviews, sending follow-up emails, creating manager’s interview schedule, re-scheduling interviews if applicant is unable to make it in, disposition of all other applicants in system (this was for just one position at the company, not all applicants and open positions)
    Since this was a temp job, the HR manager at the company was reviewing the applications that I printed and would decide which applicants to bring in for an interview.
    I would like to use all my work experience and find a job as a HR Coordinator or HR Assistant. And my future goal is to learn and advance to become a recruiter.

    1. Anita-ita*

      Excuse my ignorance – can you explain what you mean by style? I feel like there is really only one style for most non-creative positions.

      1. Spice for this*

        So when I Google resume styles I find these:
        Chronological
        Functional
        Targeted
        Combination
        And it makes me wonder which style would be best suited for showing all my experience that would benefit me to get a HR position.

        2. BRR*

          From a quick search to educate myself, chronological. Always chronological. It should be targeted to the job you’re applying for by having your achievements under each position show how you’d do the job well , but not targeted like what I’m seeing.

  163. the flying piglet*

    Hi everyone, I’d be really grateful for some feedback. I’m an academic and the job market in my field is tiny. I’m applying to everything I possibly can. I’m wondering if you might have insight about whether to apply for/take a part time university teaching job that would involve a big move. The job does not specify pay but does say it’s part time with no benefits. My ultimate goal is a full time job with benefits, and I need teaching experience. I’m overqualified for this job, and it fits right in with what I want to do, and I’m well connected in the city where I’d be moving. It would hopefully lead to bigger and better things. That said, it’s a big transition for pay that likely wouldn’t cover all of my expenses. Then again, I don’t have a full time job in my own city, either. Should I apply?

    1. Catwoman*

      If it was me, I would apply. If it progresses like you hope it will, then you’ll find out more details in the interview process that may sway your thinking either way. There’s not real decision to make until there’s an offer on the table, and you can only give yourself more options by applying.

  164. Long Hair*

    My office is informally of the opinion that if a lady has long hair, it needs to be pulled back to look professional. What do y’all consider long? And what do you consider “pulled back”?

    My hair falls into any definition of “long” and there seems to be no issue at my office with a simple ponytail or braid, so this is curiosity on what the norms are out in the rest of the working world.

    1. Ladybugger*

      I’ve never run into a workplace where hair length precluded it being worn loose, unless it was a safety issue.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      My hair is definitely long. Hangs just a smidge past my bra strap. I’ve never had any comments about it being unprofessional to wear it down, which I do most days. Some days I’ll braid or do a pony tail.

      Pulled back to me is: pony tail, bun, braid

    3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Hair is my hobby so I’m used to using more hair stylists terms – so “long” to me is past the shoulders, mid-length is touching the shoulders or above, and short is chin and above. But many people consider anything past your chin is getting into “long” since it could be pulled back.

      “Pulled back” is equally as nebulous, as that could be a simple ponytail, a bun (high? low? mid? messy? topknot? chignon?), a braid (side? fishtail? milkmaid?), or a half-up style. Would an instagram-style messy topknot be considered unprofessional in your office? I’m genuinely curious since “long” and “pulled back” are such subjective terms.

      In my office, which is pretty casual (higher ed IT), pretty much anything goes. I’ve never heard of someone with long hair being told to pull it back to look professional, and that includes men with long hair (of which we have quite a few). In my office “unprofessional” is typically “I haven’t washed or groomed my hair in several months and there are bits of food and/or bugs in it”.

      1. Long Hair*

        “Long” in my case is about hip length. And the company is an international one with most of the staff being from the head corporation’s country rather than the US, so part of it might have to do with that culture than office culture. It’s also one of those, “by business casual, we mean have a jacket and tie in the closet to grab at a moment’s notice” kind of offices.

        The rest of the ladies in my office are at just past should length or shorter, so I am the outlier. I suspect pulled back was the easiest way to tell me to keep it looking neat and tidy. Like many bosses, mine at the time had difficulty articulating dress code.

        I’m just glad I don’t have to wear a bun every day. Ouch.

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          Don’t shoot the messenger my opinion only!

          I think your hair falls into the unusually long category. Yes this is something that is totally subjective and people will interpret in different ways, so here is my interpretation and it comes from private sector corporate in the US.

          Short is chin length or shorter, Medium is shoulder length, long is shoulder blade/bra length.

          Once hair gets longer than the bottom of the bottom of the shoulder blades it heads into the ‘unusual’ category. I don’t mean unusual as in bizarre or strange sense, more the atypical sense.

          I think you need to define what professional means, does that mean polished? If so that could be a challenge with loose flowing hip length hair. Does it get in the way of doing your job? Are you handling it a lot (pulling it over your shoulder, does it hang in your way as you’re doing something and you are adjusting it, etc), if that is the case then it is possible that it’s unprofessional.

          So I won’t come out and say that loose flowing long hair is unprofessional but it could be. I think that ‘pulled back’ in your case will mean a bun or a braid. I agree with the neat and tidy comment and that a ponytail probably won’t help with that.

          As I said to start, I don’t see anything inherently wrong or unprofessional with extra long hair. And if it’s not a safety issue, you do you. But if you’re concerned about polish and appearances then extra long hair might not be compatible.

          1. Long Hair*

            That’s probably a good way to think about it – adding in an additional category of “unusually long.” I’ve gotten enough, “wow, your hair is really long!” over the years that that term would be a good fit.

            No safety concerns with my role, but I definitely have to look fairly polished. It’s been several years and no one has complained about ponytails (although I prefer braiding anyway), so it seems good enough for my office as long as my hair isn’t drawing attention to itself.

    4. Murphy*

      I say this as a woman with a pixie cut but no, I don’t think long loose hair is at odds with a professional appearance. Several of the women in higher up positions here have longer hair sometimes, but not always, worn loose.

      1. Murphy*

        I mean it’s sometimes pulled back, not that that they only have long hair sometimes!

    5. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I, too, have long hair – ranges from bottom of my bra strap to below my natural waist depending on how recently it’s been cut.

      At work, I usually go for a braid, ponytail, or bun. I consider all of these “pulled back”. If I’m not feeling well, I will wear it loose with a headband (the stretch jersey knit loop kind, not the plastic crescent kind). I figure that’s skirting the border of “pulled back”, but it keeps my hair out of my face. (I’m also in a casual office.)

      My big issue is that I fidget with my hair (and about anything else that’s handy). So in circumstances where I absolutely, positively, MUST NOT play with my hair, it goes in a bun. Then there’s nothing to fidget with, and no one can claim I was distracting them by fidgeting with my hair. The distraction for others isn’t my hair, it’s my fidgeting. (For whatever reason, I fidget less with a ponytail than a braid, even though more of my hair is accessible to me in the ponytail.)

    6. CBE*

      Long hair is sexy, and therefore women must reign in the sexy long hair so as not to be a distraction for their male coworkers, who will turn into drooling zombies watching her magical shampoo commercial hair swirl around enticingly as she walks from her desk to the conference room.
      And as you all know, the men must be accommodated. The women need policing.

      See also: bare shoulders, necklines, hemlines, heel height, breathy voices and makeup.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I really don’t think that’s it. Speaking from experience, long hair can get *everywhere* if it’s not kept relatively tidy, meaning tied back in some fashion. It can also easily look unkempt if not brushed fairly often (one gust of wind on the walk into work and the hair is all over the place) or, again, tied back.

        Also, bare shoulders, low necklines, and high hemlines are high risk for wardrobe malfunctions. Visible undergarments have no place in most offices and that’s true for everyone. That’s not sexualizing the dress code and policing because of assumed male distraction, that’s dressing in an office appropriate way. The main reason dress codes ban these things, and therefore are skewed towards women, is that our fashion options provide all these opportunities (see the rompers thread) while men’s are pretty generic and have almost zero risk of undergarment exposure.

        Mandated heels or makeup is ridiculous and pretty indefensible, though.

    7. Red Reader*

      Mine is waist-length, so my opinion on “long” is skewed, haha. I keep mine up in a bun 99% of the time because otherwise it gets everywhere, but I figure as long as it looks reasonably tidy (as opposed to, “I just rolled out of bed”) and isn’t in your face, whatever you want to do with it is fine. I think there’s rules about how patient care staff, nurses and the like, are allowed to wear their hair? But I’m not positive. (I work for a hospital, but not in a patient-facing area.) I know there’s rules about fingernail maintenance, maximum length and no artificial nails, for patient safety/hygiene reasons.

    8. Middle School Teacher*

      My hair is also really long (past my bra strap). I tend to put it in a bun because it’s faster. If I want it down I either have to straighten it or use my curling iron, and a bun takes 30 seconds. I also shed quite a bit. But yes, if it’s not a safety issue, you can keep it long and down, but do be aware that if it’s getting everywhere, it probably won’t look quite as polished.

  165. Ladybugger*

    Is it torpedoing your job growth prospects to avoid “mandatory fun” activities put on by the social committee?

    We have these kinds of events quarterly, and while some of them feel more optional than others (like a volleyball tournament – no one expected non-sporty types to go or play), there’s also a few “we took great care to ensure there’s a bunch of terrible activities EVERYONE can do and you all get time off to attend!!!” events.

    I do attend team socials where we hang out casually, but I’m not up for Team Super Fun Activity Dayz. Does skipping these mandatory fun days a few times a year impact my ability to get promoted/taken seriously?

    1. BRR*

      It really depends on your office culture. I have a super long commute and work from home a lot so I don’t need to attend the rare happy hour after work. The event during business hours on a day when I usually work from home? I ask to change which day I come into the office and get my team player points. So sometimes you have to suck it up.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Totally depends on culture, yes. Maybe the size of the office too. We had 60-70 people in our office, so maybe half would show up for events with food, fewer would show up if it involved any effort. Nobody thought anything of the non-participants, other than they were probably busy or had meetings scheduled. In a smaller office, your absence might be more noticeable, especially if you’re the only one, but if you’re attending some then that’s probably not a big deal.

    3. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Yes, depending upon who is sponsoring and attending.
      CurrentJob, the great-grand boss sponsors and attends all the events. Therfore, I always go and am a good sport. It’s a lot more important than you’d think. Don’t let anyone tell you that it is enough to “show up and do a good job” at work only, without having the ability to be seen as a person. I am a serious introvert, but I also do have a heart for people, and a great memory.
      * I remember who has new babies, major life events, etc.
      * I send brief notes of congratulations.
      * For the corporate events, I “turn it on” and ignore my social anxiety and misgivings for those hours,
      * I look for those folks that need encouragement more than me.
      * I say thank you to the ones who deserve it, and learn about those I don’t know.
      * I put names with faces. (If I don’t recognize them, I walk up and introduce myself and ask about them.)
      * I sign up and participate in things like the bollywood dance (I’m awful and was not only the only non-Indian, but the only one over 60 on the “dance squad”…. but every one of the testers, product development teams, and project managers who came, remember me fondly and ask if I’m going to participate next year).

      I created a reward system for myself. I go, but I plan some significant reward and down time after. (aka, I attend the great-grandboss’ “bowling party” – which I hated and I can’t even eat the pizza served… but afterwards, I got to go to my favorite thrift store and spend $50 and 2 uninterrupted hours on my way home – you pick your reward. )

      When I was a paid intern at “really big” corporation during my MBA, my husband talked with the organizer while helping to grill. We were probably 10 years older than average and hubs can extract data from anyone (it’s a gift).
      In their case, it was a chance to assess interpersonal and soft skills, and see who stepped up to contribute/ work ethic. They noted who didn’t bother to come, who didn’t help, and it did affect who they extended permanent offers to.
      Seriously, you do have to go, and put the phone away. Interact. Even if you are already employed, this is exactly the kind of thing that helps you be integrated into the group in a positive way.
      I could go on about how after 10+ years at my current company, this interaction is paying off because I am more comfortable with all of them….but won’t.

  166. Beagle*

    I work in a manufacturing setting with a team of many engineers who are usually cross-trained over all of the different products. However, I was hired to cover one specific product, and was not cross-trained. On top of that, nobody else is trained on my product, leaving me to be the only one supporting this product. This puts me in a position where I will get asked, sometimes even on the day of, to work overtime (unpaid, salary) to get some thing fixed for a tight deadline.

    It usually isn’t a big deal, because it was very rare that they would ask for some immediate overtime like that. I have always given my best effort to try to fix issues or make modifications as quick as possible. However, because of very poor scheduling, this has occurring much more often. There has also been the need for the operators to work overtime and weekends (needing my support), which has really been cutting into my personal life. I would feel guilty asking for a vacation day, because I would usually get called for support even on my time off. Because I was the only one who could help, I felt inclined to come in and help anyway. I have expressed my frustration about this, both to my manager, and his manager as well (the manager’s manager is involved casually enough that this isn’t totally out of line), and have been telling them that others need to be trained on my product for almost a year, but no progress has been made.

    The burnout is real, and I just want some time away from work. Recently I scheduled a few days off in a row, and lied about the purpose, just so I had an excuse to not answer my phone. I did actually have a goal in mind here, that if something went wrong, and I made myself not available, they would be forced to find a way to fix the problem. If they even begin training someone, that would be a load off me, and either it helps the situation, or I feel less guilty about leaving the company.

    Am I wrong for my actions in trying to run away from work in this manner? I feel I have tried to ask for help in many different ways and they have not been supportive. Are there any other actions I could have or can still take to try to get through to them?

    1. Amber Rose*

      No need to feel guilt. If you went on a trip to another country, or got hit by a bus, or for some reason just vanished into thin air right this instant, they would find a way to deal without you. Since you’ve made your needs clear and they’ve chosen to not care, you’re totally justified in doing whatever you need to do to make them realize that. I think taking a zero contact vacation is a great idea.

      As long as you’re firm with yourself and do not answer any work calls.

      1. Beagle*

        Today is my first day of this time off, and they have already attempted to call me 4 different times, twice within 2 hours of when I normally would have started this morning. That was my reason for writing this initally..

        Thank you for your response. An interesting point here is that they have even used the phrase “If you got hit by a bus, we would be in trouble” directly to me before! So they know that it is a problem! But they just haven’t taken any action. In a way, this somewhat simulates that and hopefully brings them to reality.

        1. Amber Rose*

          Oh gosh, that sounds exhausting. Don’t answer! You have this internet stranger’s permission to pretend for a couple days that you’ve never even heard of your company or its products and are just filtering out a particularly annoying telemarketer.

    2. foolofgrace*

      “I’m sorry, I’m not available.” “I’m sorry, I’m not available.” “I’m sorry, I’m not available.” With an optional, “Next time, I will need more notice.”

      Maybe just wishful thinking. I feel your pain.

    3. Kathenus*

      I think you enjoy your time off and don’t feel any guilt or pressure. But long term I think you need to continue to press your manager and grandboss on a plan for cross-training. Maybe you could write up a proposal of what it would look like – how many people, if there are people/roles that are the most logical, what information they’d need to learn to be able to fill in, how long that would take, etc. Then send them that and schedule a meeting to discuss it. If you still get pushback, then you have more information to know that this isn’t going to change, so you can then decide whether or not you want to work there with that as the reality. I can imagine how frustrating this is. Best of luck.

    4. Agent of the Nine*

      I am in a similar position and I sympathize very much! You are totally entitled to vacation time, so you shouldn’t feel guilty for taking it. I don’t think you need to lie, you just need to say something vague like “will be unavailable by phone or email” and then don’t answer when they try to contact you.

      Is it possible to talk to your manager again about getting someone trained up to work with you? You can use the reasoning that it is for the good of the company in situations like this where you are out. I think it would also be reasonable to say that you are getting overwhelmed with requests, so you will either need help or start turning some of them down to get your schedule under control. You are in a pretty good position to push for this since they are motivated to keep you around.

    5. sweet potatoes*

      Can you try putting your job on a “do not disturb list?” Most Android phones have this feature, not sure about iPhone, but this way the calls go straight to voicemail and don’t interrupt your time off. This should at least get you some time to relax without your phone buzzing without interrupting a call you may actually want to take.
      I get random calls from my coworkers whenever I’m off, and my boss likes to work during the weekend, so I use this function to block all incoming calls so I can have some peace and quiet.

    6. Beagle*

      Thank you for all of the responses! It is reassuring to at least hear I shouldn’t feel the guilt I do. That will just have to take time to accept but at least I don’t feel in the wrong for taking time off. It has been frustrating for sure because I will submit vacation time and have it declined. I will take any time away that I can get at this point.

  167. wingmaster*

    I’m in an entry level assistant position (my first job out of college). At my company, assistants here do not have cards. With my job, however, I deal with a lot of vendors. Most of the time, I communicate with vendors via email. When I meet new vendors in person, my boss and the people from vendors exchange cards. When they ask me if I have a card, I get awkward and say no. I’ve asked my boss about if I would get a company business card, and she said I won’t receive business cards until I’ve been promoted with a title change. Which I understand.

    I’ve always been taught at school and other professionals to always have a business card. I understand the importance of having business cards for networking events, but for any situation relating to my company like the one I mentioned above, is it okay to not present a card? I’m not sure if presenting personal cards would be appropriate either?

    1. Rey*

      If your boss said it isn’t required, I would not stress about it, and I definitely would not use a personal card (because it’s for work and because your boss has already said that you won’t receive business cards). Two options, 1) ask your boss directly what you should do in this scenario or 2) when the vendor asks for a card, just reference back to your boss’s card (Oh, I don’t have cards, but you have the contact info on X’s card and we’ll be able to square you away).

      1. wingmaster*

        Those are great suggestions! Thanks Rey

        Usually, when #2 scenario happens, which is all time, I do mention that I have their business card, and will be in contact with them via email.

        I guess it’s just I don’t want to look unprofessional, but you’re right that this is not something I should stress about.

        1. Blue Eagle*

          What about getting a small supply of your boss’s business cards and in the event someone asks for your card, write your name at the top (or on the back) of your boss’s card so at least they have the correct spelling of your name.

    2. KR*

      I was just thinking about this today because I would like to order business cards but the smallest quantity I can get is 100 and by the time I use 100 we will have done a reorg or something and I won’t be able to use it. It’s so frustrating because I don’t Need one but I’d like to have one. I think too for me I deal with lots of vendors too and they all have business cards because they need to sell things and network. I am the buyer so I don’t nessecarily need it as much.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Well there are those business card kits you can buy. The Avery Label company makes one and I’ve seen them in WalMart. Avery has online templates that use Word. You print out the sheets of business cards, tear off the margins and separate the cards from each other using the perforated precut lines. They’re not perfect and it always seems like there’s a little bit of paper sticking up where you tear them apart, but if you only need to print have 10 or 15, they would work.

  168. bdg*

    How do you address a cover letter when there’s no job opening, so no hiring manager to address it to?

    I’m looking for a position in my hometown, and a family friend asked for my resume to see if their company had anything. They don’t have any job postings on their website, so I’m struggling with not only content, but also who to address it to! Ideas?

    1. Anona*

      I wouldn’t do a cover letter. I’d just give them the resume, since that’s what they’ve requested.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I did this too – gave a resume to my colleague at a company with no current openings (but hints of future jobs!). He also said to check in regularly to keep myself on the radar. If/when there’s an opening, I’ll hit ’em with my best cover letter then.

  169. Mbarr*

    Ugh. I just had a sinking-feeling-in-my-stomach moment. While getting coffee, I was eyeballing the random local ads on the bulletin board. I noticed one ad that had a pic of a male and female medical practitioners. Upon closer inspecting, I noticed the woman’s pic had pin holes through both her breasts and forehead. Someone obviously put the pins in there, and someone removed it, but if you looked, you could still see the imprint.

    I got conflicting advice from people (just remove it, bring it to HR, don’t do anything), and finally brought it to HR. I don’t expect anything to come of it (we have cameras, but it’s a huge company/building). But at least now if it’s part of a larger problem, I’ll have done my part.

  170. Sad and Conflicted*

    I interviewed for a job I really wanted a month ago and didn’t make it to the second interview. I was very disappointed and felt horrible about how incompetent I must have seemed in the first interview, but I accepted it and moved on.

    I just saw that they posted a job that’s basically the same (Teapot Coordinator vs. Tea Cup Coordinator) and is in the same department. Can someone reassure me that I really should not apply? Logically I know that if I didn’t make it to the second interview, and if they didn’t like me enough to contact me about the new opening, then I shouldn’t apply. It’ll be a waste of my time and they’ll be wondering why I applied. But it was a job I really wanted so I’m tempted to apply and feel conflicted and distracted now.

    1. Mbarr*

      I think it depends on the department it’s in. Maybe the new Tea Cup Coordinator role is in a different department, and you’d be interviewed by different people? Maybe you were already their second choice, and this could be your chance?

    2. Anona*

      They already know you applied. If you really want to, you can try applying again, but just be aware that it’s probably an exercise in futility. I’m sorry you didn’t get the job you wanted :/

      1. Anona*

        I guess another option would be to email the hiring coordinator and say something about how you were recently interview for X job and you’d now be interested in Y job. You could even say something about how you assume that you’re already being considered for it because the roles are so similar, but if it would be helpful for you to submit an additional application, to let you know, and you’d be happy to do so.

    3. BRR*

      I don’t think you have enough information to know if they don’t think you’re a good match for their needs or if you were a great candidate, just not as great as some other candidates. If the positions are similar enough that this wouldn’t be considered resume bombing, I would apply. You have nothing to lose and if they thought you were good enough to interview for the first role, I don’t think you’re wasting their time by applying. But if you don’t get an interview this time I wouldn’t apply to anything in that department anytime soon until you gain some additional achievements.

    4. Kathenus*

      I would absolutely apply. This could be a completely different hiring manager. It’s a different job, even though there are similarities. Good luck!

    5. ..Kat..*

      Reapply! After all, they liked you enough to call you in for one interview the last time. Consider that practice for the next time you interview. Good luck.

  171. Cookieee*

    I work for an Occupational Health Department in a large organisation in England- I do admin & have been here for 8 months in a team of 7. 1 week in I found out the role was supposed to include specialist IT skills though my line manager thought different, this rumbled on with me trying to get clarity on what was expected of me. The 1 other admin who was supposed to be leading my induction but had only shown me how to process referrals & book appointments went on long term sick leave. At this point they finally took the IT work away from me which I was overjoyed about. A few weeks later my line manager quit suddenly due to being bullied by someone she was unable to manage. My line manager used to help me a lot with the admin work so I was gutted when she left but I understood her reasons. The bully reassured me that everyone will help me out & I’m not on my own. She tells me all the nurses know my role. She later screamed at me because I gave her an envelope so she could post a letter she’d signed. It was a windowed envelope she just had to put the letter in but she screamed “THIS IS NOT MY JOB!!” She went home crying, was off sick then came back & broke her leg so the team of 7 is now a team of 4. I’m still feeling new & don’t know what I’m doing other than the basics so all I do is data input & answer the phone.

    At this point the number of referrals coming in starts to increase & the workload is getting heavier & heavier & I’m by myself with no support. Everyone is stressed out & only thinking of themselves in the situation. We have a Doctor who will not type her own reports like the others, the admin who is on sick used to do it so now they pull someone else from a different department to do this but that person is only a couple of afternoons a week & has 2 other jobs there! When I have to write the reports everything else has to stop which means the calls from HR increase as they want to know when the person they’ve referred is going to be seen. The reports are audio typing -there was no mention of this on my job description which is odd since it’s a specific skill. I also have informed them that when I type for long periods I get joint pain & bizarrely my hands swell up. They all know I have issues sometimes with opening our awkward locks. They all know this.

    A couple months prior to starting there I was being investigated for autoimmune diseases & was diagnosed with 2 just after I started. As I work with doctors & nurses I didn’t mind making them all aware of this. So throughout all of the above I am having pains, difficulty focusing, getting dizzy etc. etc. & everyone knows this. Still the work piles on because not only do I have all of these referrals but the nurses & doctor expect me to do every little thing for them so really I am an admin, a secretary & a PA for multiple people whilst ill & stressed & new. 6 months in I have 3 days off for a biopsy. If I am not there nothing happens – voicemails are not even checked for cancellations. I put things in place like to google problems they have with Office apps instead of constantly asking me, putting requests in an email instead of standing over my desk, how to handle outgoing post (which is just add a postage slip to the bundle) – small little tips no one pays attention to. Oh yeah, that biopsy? A month later I find out I have another autoimmune disease. Now here comes the strong medication – 2 of them & I can’t cope. All throughout I’m making it clear that it’s too much so the nurses start doing their own admin. But the doctor won’t.

    Oh & by the way we’ve got someone from an agency to help out with the admin & they start when I’m on leave for my birthday last week- despite my repeated request they start this week so I can show them what to do without them sitting around for days. We were told she would be doing the audio typing then 1 day before this is about to happen the task is given back to me. I tell them I physically can’t do it. Just do it, it’s temporary they say.
    I’m meeting all the time with the director who is now our line manager informing him of how ill I feel & I have to talk him into making a referral to Occupational Health for me. Did I mention I work in Occupational Health? So the referral is made based off me telling him the role is stressful, I need to avoid stress & I’m ill. He says all the right things but it’s in one ear & out the other. He is also ignoring my probation sign off which should’ve happened at the 6 month mark. This makes me nervous & I feel like I am in limbo. My Occupational Health appointment lasted 20 minutes by the way so I don’t have high hopes for any reasonable adjustments.

    My boyf is insistent I quit & put my health first & I am going to but I feel awful about the agency girl having just started. I need the money. I’ll be quitting without a job. I don’t know what to do. There’s more to the story, I’ve been treated poorly & I know none of them give a u know what about me so why am I worried about doing the right thing? Why am I wanting to write procedures & train the new girl when no one afforded me the same courtesy? When would I even have time? They seem completely oblivious to all I have experienced as a new member of staff & to my health all because I picked up things quickly! I wish I had left when there was no other admin. I am capable of so much more than doing basic admin but I’m stuck in those roles. I want to have control of my own workload too. I’m in my mid 30s I don’t even know where to start!

    Sorry for the epic rant, I just needed to say it I guess. I’m sorry it was so long, I’m sure it’s a rambling load of nonsense I just had to get it out.

    1. Nita*

      What a mess. So I gather there were originally supposed to be two admins, not just you? It doesn’t really make sense for a doctor to do their own admin, at least here in the US – there is so much paperwork that they do need all the support they can get. It’s just not fair that two people’s work all landed on you. It’s good you’ve got someone to help now, but if you really can’t take it any more, think of yourself first and quit. The new girl will learn. It may just take longer if you’re not able to train her.

      Is there some kind of temporary disability in the UK that you can take? And is it at all possible for you to get evaluated by an Occupational Health department somewhere else? Even if you have to take the day off and have your BF drive you to another town, it sounds worth it. I don’t know if it breaks any laws to have your boss do the medical eval to determine if you need accommodation/a leave, but it seems all kinds of wrong.

      1. Cookieee*

        There were 2 admins & the amount of work coming in was much lower. The doctor does need a medical secretary but they don’t listen. I think they think it’s just typing but it is a lot & has to be accurate.
        My OH appointment was with an outside organisation, sorry should’ve added that but my brain is fried! I’m not sure about temp disability over here but I think I’ll take the weekend to look into all my options. Thanks for replying.

    2. Margery*

      What grade are you? Depending on that they might expect you to be able to do audio typing as a basic essential for this type of job.

      If you really can’t do audio I think you’d be better finding another job. All jobs within the NHS are undermanned and the problem is the managers are probably just as stressed as you are.

      I don’t think a doctor should be doing admin – when you think of how much they are paid this is a huge waste of resources.

      Have you been to HR about this?

      1. Cookieee*

        It’s not NHS. I was thinking of speaking to HR about the probation issue but not sure now because I just want to go but scared to leave without a job even though I see no other way.

        Audio typing isn’t mentioned on the job description at all but it came up in the interview where I was told it was a once in a while task when in actual fact it’s a multiple times a day thing & always was. They have completely ignored the fact that it is causing me physical problems. It’s like they care about the OH needs for the employees of the organisation but not the team itself. My DSE assessment flagged up stuff but the health & safety officer just dismissed it all.
        I don’t think a doctor should do admin either but the circumstances are extraordinary in that we lost so many staff quickly & I was still not fully trained up & the work coming in drastically increased for me. Originally she said she would help out by uploading her own documents to the database which is a very quick job. Then she suddenly stopped & as things got worse for me she piles more & more on. The fact is they cannot expect 1 person to do every little thing for multiple people on top of the regular job. Literally, the doctor will print a document from the server, bring it to me & ask me to find it on the server to email to her! Even though she is fully capable of doing it – it’s not a lack of IT knowledge. The more I type the more I realise I can’t carry on!

        1. Margery*

          I was in a job once where they overloaded me – funnily enough everyone seems to think a government job is a cushy number! In the end no-one listened to me when I told them about how much work I was having to do, even going to HR. I decided to leave and went temping for a while – I don’t know if this is a possibility with you.

          If you can’t do typing though you’d be better looking at a different area. Also if you’re not well could you not get help with disability.

          Good luck

  172. fnom*

    I figured out that I’m transgender (AFAB, genderqueer, but planning to present masculine)…well, fifteen years ago, but now I have better resources and my very own steady job, in tech in the Northeast…with a lot of conservative upper management. To the point where one of the VPs was horribly offended that his daughter was given $medication while in labor because “that’s used for abortion!” However, there are several out gay and lesbian people in my department, and I’ve never heard anything negative on that. My state recently passed a transgender rights law, so I have legal protection, now, but…

    I am absolutely terrified to come out at work, both because of the stress itself, and because of the challenge of being a short fat guy trying to find work-appropriate clothes that fit well. Any advice for clothes shopping or suggestions for coming out?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I would check to see if your company has any policies about this. The organization I work for has a comprehensive plan for how to handle an employee transitioning.

      Good luck!

    2. ..Kat..*

      Can you check out celebrities online that have your body type and find one whose style you like?

      1. ..Kat..*

        Also, stores like Nordstrom’s have personal shoppers. Maybe make an appointment, but explain your body type and preferred gender so that you can get a personal shopper who best fits your needs?

        Apologies if ‘preferred gender’ is the wrong way to say this (please tell me the right way to say this – I honestly don’t know).

  173. formerSGartist*

    For those of you who exclude certain jobs from their résumé as I have (and as AAM recommends), how and when do you address the omission(s) in interviews?

    I disclose these 2 jobs if asked directly about how my time was spent during the gaps. If I proceed to a 2nd interview, I provide this info voluntarily without being asked. I also always disclose when completing an application that specifically requests full and complete information.

    My recent experience has me confused and worried: I was a finalist for two very high-paying administrative roles. The owner said he was impressed with me during the 1st interview and asked if I’d consider an additional position. The day before the second interview, I emailed detail about the 2 missing jobs to the hiring manager (“HM”) including the reasons I left each (Given reasons: 1. pay and benefits changed on date of hire; and 2. job was not as expected…Actual reasons: 1. employer illegally refused to pay for overtime worked, and only paid 20% of $1,200 monthly health insurance; and 2. I was assigned to support a severely alcoholic executive and cover for his inability to function). The HM had not asked me about the gaps on my résumé, so I volunteered it thinking that if it were an issue, she would either cancel the 2nd interview or ask for more detail.

    During the 2nd interview, both the HM and owner were present as before. The HM accused me of lying, saying that it was her understanding that ALL jobs should be included on a résumé. I politely countered that it was my understanding that a résumé is a marketing document, and an application is a legal document that requires full disclosure, and pointed to the fact that I had not been asked to complete an application which was why I disclosed everything to her the day before. The interview was cut short and I left.

    The owner sent me a very kind and apologetic email afterward, saying that he still felt I was a strong and talented candidate. He also explained that the HM was married to his partner in the firm, so he couldn’t comfortably override her hiring process.

    I’d really appreciate any advice re: how I might have handled this differently, and how to handle going forward. Thanks very much for reading this!

    1. Anona*

      I think it’s a little odd that you emailed details of the 2 jobs unsolicited. I think you should have either included them on the resume, or only shared them if asked. I don’t make the same distinction between resume and application. And I think the HM is being kinda silly about this too.

      For example, I had career 1, then a 6 month break, during part of which I was a paid tax preparer, and then career 2. I don’t ever include the paid tax preparer job on any resume or application, because it’s just not relevant. No one has ever asked about the gap.

    2. CAA*

      Don’t voluntarily bring up the two jobs you leave off your resume. There’s no reason to “disclose” them unless someone requires you to fill out an application that specifically asks for your entire work history or if they ask about gaps.

      In this case, it sounds like this was probably not a job you want anyway. You’ve got two owners/partners and one of them is married to another manager. The owner who is not married to the HM supports her to her face even though he disagrees with her and then he goes behind her back to explain to a third party that he’s too weak to speak up for himself. These are not the signs of a well run company with good relationships among owners and other management.

      1. formerSGartist*

        Thanks, but how do I address this situation when employers do background checks? I was a finalist for another amazing job at a different company, and was told after 2 interviews that they would not consider me because I didn’t disclose the other jobs voluntarily at any point in the process. They discovered the omitted jobs when they did a background check. All of the positions I’ve applied to in the last year (with 2 exceptions) state that they do background checks, so I disclose voluntarily now in order to circumvent this same type of reaction. Background checks now seem to be an inescapable factor in hiring at any level.

        When I do disclose these jobs, most employers express great concern and curiosity. When I provide the given reasons above to them, they seem to remain suspicious, and continue to press me for more info (which, per AAM’s advice, I don’t provide, and stick to my original answers). Any advice for addressing their concerns/questions once it reaches this point?

        1. Anona*

          How long were you at these jobs? Is the short duration why you’re leaving them off? If possible I’d just include them on your larger resume, if you’re finding that it really does come up a lot. Even if they weren’t a great fit/experience, I think it may raise fewer red flags than disclosing later (although if they were super short, then there’s the job hopper appearance).

          1. formerSGartist*

            Thanks! Yes, short duration…7 weeks at the first, 5 months at the second. I’ve experimented with including them, but unfortunately didn’t get any responses or requests to interview when I did. I used to interview prospective employees when I was with another company, so I know how this must look to an employer.

        2. CAA*

          Now I’m curious about what kinds of background checks people are doing that can turn up short-term jobs you haven’t mentioned. Unless they’re accessing your tax returns, it’s not that easy to assemble information on another person’s entire work history. In my experience in the U.S, if it’s not for a government security clearance, “background check” usually just means that they are looking for any criminal records or driving records related to the type of work they do; and if it is for a clearance, your employer never sees the SF85/86 that you fill out anyway so they wouldn’t know about any jobs you didn’t put on your resume.

          My recommendation would be either:
          1) put the jobs on your resume and be matter-of-fact about them. Don’t ever use the word “disclose” to a potential employer because that sounds so much more ominous than just having a couple of short term jobs on your resume. If asked why you left these positions, the reasons you’re giving are fine, but you do need to elaborate on them if people probe. Most interviewers would rather hear “I was being asked to cover for an executive who had a substance abuse problem and I just wasn’t comfortable with that” than “job was not as expected”. It’s also fine to say “they were expecting me to work off the clock and my take home pay was about 30% less than the offer letter indicated.” You just need to be matter-of-fact and not get emotional or go off on a rant about how they tricked you into this by lying to you during the hiring process or anything like that.

          -or-

          2) don’t put the jobs on your resume or on any application unless it specifically says “list all jobs held during the past x years”. If the application asks for all jobs, put them on there, but let your resume stand as is. Don’t bring up the differences between the application and your resume, and if the hiring manager notices, answer as above.

          I really think you’ve run into a couple of unique situations here — first where a background check turned up these jobs, and second where a hiring manger thinks a resume needs to be the unedited story of your life. If you try too hard to prevent these one-off things from happening again, then you run the risk of overreacting and you could come across as the one who’s a little strange.

          1. formerSGartist*

            Yes, I was particularly surprised that the 7 week position appeared on the background search. I expected that the 5 month one would be there also, and it was. This was for a role at a large hospital with a stellar reputation, so I’m guessing they want to preserve that reputation and are very thorough about screening for that reason.

            For the position in which I supported the alcoholic executive, I was forced to sign a non-disparagement agreement when I arrived on my first day. It threatens legal action to recover damages if they discover I’ve ever said or written anything negative about the company or any of its employees, even after employment ends. I’ve never encountered this before, but I signed it since I was told they wouldn’t hire me otherwise. Because of this, I’m constrained and can’t elaborate on the real reason for leaving, even though the suggested phrasing you provided above sounds very reasonable (and I really appreciate it!). The most I’ve said when pressed is “the position I discussed while interviewing with them turned out to be entirely different than what was described”.

            Your advice to “not get emotional or go off on a rant” is very appropriate, and a useful reminder. Because I’ve made those types of mistakes in past interviews, I’m now so well-practiced and prepared for these scenarios that I think I risk coming off as unemotional (although polite and polished). I think you’re especially spot-on with “If you try too hard to prevent these one-off things from happening again, then you run the risk of overreacting”, and your advice against using the term “disclose”. After recalling and examining my own reaction to the HM’s accusation of my being dishonest, your advice reminds me that I have to be careful to avoid sounding too defensive when I respond to such reactions.

            Thanks so much for your response.

    3. formerSGartist*

      I should add that my circumstances are increasingly desperate: I’m unemployed and have no health insurance. My savings and 401(k) are exhausted due to a cancer diagnosis. I’m 64 years old but I’m told by others who are not friends/family that I easily pass for someone 10 years younger (thanks to professional hair dye and glycolic acid). So, in this era of background checks, I’m very grateful for any advice!

  174. dorothy zbornak*

    I work from home a lot and am on a lot of conference calls and have my video permanently blocked b/c I’m very self conscious. On a conf call right now and someone I work with didn’t turn off their video and was shirtless – oops.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      hahaha… This is why I also have mine blocked!

    2. Antilles*

      Personally, I not only disable the video on my conferencing, but also put a physical cover (duct tape!) over the camera on my laptop. This way, even if they release an update and ‘reset it to default settings’ (read as: all the unwanted stuff I intentionally disabled gets turned back on) or I accidentally click on the wrong button, I’m still fine.

      1. dorothy zbornak*

        I have a physical cover as well, like an official one I got at a work conference from a vendor so even if my video is on, all you can see is black screen. It’s amazing and I got two and gave the other to my boss and he also loves it.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I recently had a call that I didn’t realize would be video and I had just gotten out of the shower and was rushing to make the call, and had soaking wet hair and was wearing … sweatpants and a bra. No top.

      Yes.

      So with impressively poor thinking, I just slammed the computer shut as soon as I saw the video appear, even though clearly the other person had seen me. And then I casually dialed back in five minutes later and didn’t mention what had happened.

      1. Antilles*

        Did the other party say anything or did everybody just sort of awkwardly do the “pretend nothing happened, let us never speak of this”?

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          No, we both pretended it hadn’t happened, although internally I was alternately dying and cracking up throughout the whole thing. And then as soon as it was over I texted everyone I knew to announce what I had done.

    4. Red Reader*

      I’m in a class right now that’s online, webcam mandatory, and the instructor in her intro email specified that all men in the class must wear shirts. Specifically the men. :P

  175. SoSo*

    Not really a question or rant, but I know we’ve all heard horror stories about seeing or hearing something on web calls and I wanted to share something really cute happened during a conference call this morning that kind of made my day…. We’ve recently transitioned to Skype for Business and now have capability to use webcams during our meetings (although not required), and I was having a call with 3 other people, one of which is in the Netherlands and had his webcam on. Just a few minutes in to our call, his (very beautiful) calico cat decided that she wanted to climb up on the back of his chair and perch her head and paws against his shoulder. She happily listened to our meeting for the next twenty minutes and it was the cutest thing. Since it was just a few of us on the call (and a tight knit team), we all got a really good kick out of it!

    1. Beagle*

      Thanks for sharing! Threads like this can be quite serious or even sad in nature, as it is all people looking for help or advice or expressing problems. It is nice to read a little story that puts a smile on your face!

    3. The Other Dawn*

      Adorable! I’d like to think my cats would be cute like that if I worked from home, but they would just get in front of the camera and sniff it most likely. People would get an eyeful of cat nose and whiskers.

      1. SoSo*

        Right? That’s what my cats would do too! She was so polite and quiet though. He just laughed and called her his “happy helper.” I’m sure if he’d been on a larger call he would have put her back on the floor, but the three of us didn’t mind the extra attendee :)

    4. TheWriteStuff*

      That’s cute that the cat joined in!

      I found out my mute button had broken when somebody asked if they were hearing a bird. My parakeet loved one coworker’s voice and would sing and chirp when she heard him.

    5. Red Reader*

      Nice! My dog spends a lot of the day curled up in my chair with me or, in the wintertime when it’s cold, straight up in my lap because that’s where the heated fan points. So every time they start talking about adding webcams to our meetings, my coworker gets excited about maybe being able to see the dog. (And I start muttering about having to change out of my pajamas :P )

  176. Cat*

    Currently at my desk, with men working right above me. The smell of whatever chemical they’re using is overpowering, I have a headache, I’m dizzy etc. I want to go home but I don’t want to use PTO or take the hit (I’m hourly). I know technically my boss doesn’t have to do anything for me, but if I asked to leave early because I can’t work in these conditions, would it be reasonable to ask if I can clock out from home at 5 so I get paid for the time? I’d ask to work from home but don’t have any projects going on & my boss knows it, so there’s little work to actually do.

    1. CAA*

      Are there any workspaces in the office that are not impacted by the chemicals? I assume there must be if everyone else is still working, so ask your boss about moving to one of those, even if you have to share a space for the afternoon. If your boss suggests that you just go home, explain that you don’t want to take PTO or go unpaid, so you’d need to clock out at your usual time if there’s no place in the office where you can work.

    2. ..Kat..*

      If the chemicals are making you ill, this might be an OSHA type violation. You are being exposed to chemicals that are making you sick. Ask for the MSDS (material data safety sheet) for the chemicals you are being exposed to. They are required to provide you with product/chemical names in the US, as well as MSDSs. Not doing so is possibly an oversight/illegal at your job. You can take this chemical information to your doctor or even an emergency room at a hospital if it is making you sick. This could be a worker’s compensation issue. YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT IS MAKING YOU PHYSICALLY ILL AT YOUR WORK PLACE. This is neither legal nor acceptable.

      FWIW, I am a nurse who used to work in employee health.

  177. Kat in VA*

    This will probably get lost as we’re over 1200 comments in but the job that was “getting approval to make you an offer” that I was so excited about?

    Yeah, I had a call yesterday where the recruiter said the hiring manager was still interviewing because even though I’m the top candidate, he has to have “other candidates to compare you to”. The “making you an offer” email was last Friday, the call was Thursday, and apparently the other candidate is interviewing today.

    When I simply said, “So, you’re *not* making me an offer, then?”, the recruiter waffled about how I was her best candidate, and even though she spoke to my references, now HE wants to talk to my top reference, and there’s a conference next week, and and he wants to be absolutely sure, and on and on and on.

    The only thing I can think is that there must be an internal candidate interviewing, or someone out of the 7 people I interviewed with raised a last minute concern, or…you know what? Who freaking KNOWS at this point. I’m not completely tossing them off the shelf yet, but I’ve cooled WAY down on my energy into getting this job because quite honestly, I feel like I’m getting jerked around, bigtime.

    Protip: Don’t tell a candidate that they’re the top candidate AND you’re getting approval for an offer unless you are, indeed, actually going to make them an offer. Don’t call them almost a week later and starting wabbling around about having to compare because you brought me in “first”, and a bunch of other nonsense. Word choice is important.

    Did I mention that I am now five weeks into this process, and she says she’s pushing the hiring manager to make a decision by NEXT Friday? Sure, I totally have six weeks to sit around and wait, no matter how much you say you’re trying to be “respectful” of my time. You’re not. You’re wasting my time, this is intolerably long, and I’m still looking for other jobs.

    Thanks for the vent space. If she reads AAM, the recruiter will know who I am because I gave enough details to out myself. Maybe it’ll be education for the next time they go to hire someone and jerk them around. Just because I’m not working doesn’t mean that I don’t WANT to go back to work as soon as possible.

    1. Persimmons*

      That bites. I wish the recruiter would at least be honest with you about why this is happening.

      1. Kat in VA*

        Me too. I’m very much in the “Mean what you say, say what you mean” camp. That way I’m not sitting here trying to run all the scenarios: Did one of the 7 people I interviewed with have an objection? Is my salary too high despite being “right within range” according to them? Was my oldboss too effusive in his praise of me as a reference? Am I too old to work there? (This is a company comprised of mostly college-age kids). Is it an internal candidate / transfer / employee referral / alien nation takeover?

    2. Evil HR Person*

      The recruiter put her foot in her mouth. The only thing she should have said was that they were not done with the interviews – she should have never said anything about the offer until she had it in her hand and was ready to send it to you. Most of the time, this just flags a bad recruiter, and not a bad company. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      1. Kat in VA*

        YES! THAT is the most egregious part of all. I just looked at the email again, and it says verbatim, “Right now you’re our top candidate and I am working towards getting approval for an offer.” So, I read it as – we’re getting together with Finance/HR/whoever else to put together a package for you to sign. What else is an offer but that?

        I mean, that’s not exactly ambiguous, is it? So WHAT changed between last Friday and yesterday?

        Thank you for your empathy. I hate job hunting, and I hate ambiguity most of all. OldBoss said it best – “You’re going nuts because you’re not in control of the situation.” He was my favoritest boss ever; too bad he didn’t have the headcount or the budget to hire me on permanently. Ah well.

        Onward and upward!

        1. Sorry about that*

          Sorry about what is going on but the email copied says ‘right now’ and ‘working towards’ . Nothing says we are offering you the position. I think you read a little too much into it. That said it should have been more clear or not sent at all til there was an actually offer with details.

  178. Embarrassed Anon*

    I just overhead a colleague complaining about me. Well, she doesn’t know it’s me that she was complaining about.

    Someone brought in some store-bought cookies today. I ate the last one, and didn’t clean up and throw away the empty plastic box. My colleague just walked past the empty container, asked the person who sits there if she saw who left it empty, and angrily stomped away muttering under her breath about it.

    Of course I should have tossed it! I’m not sure why I didn’t… I’m generally a hyper-helpful person. In this case, it genuinely didn’t occur to me to throw it away, and I’m not sure why not. (Maybe because I was embarrassed to take the last cookie? That wasn’t a conscious thought, but as I’m examining my actions it seems like a possibility.)

    Anyway. She’s overreacting in the amount of her frustration, and I’m (silently) overreacting in the amount of my guilt.

    1. NotaPirate*

      Maybe make a mental note to be the next person to bring in store bought cookies? Or to try and be the one to clean up next time? Coworker is grumpy because they thought they were getting a cookie and it was empty. They’re overreacting. Apparently they really needed a cookie. I don’t think you need to feel super guilty, sometimes you just space out.

      1. Embarrassed Anon*

        Oh, no — she was grumpy because I left the garbage there for someone else to clean up. Which is a legitimate complaint!

    2. foolofgrace*

      This reminds me of a roommate I once had who would take the last ice cubes and then put the empty tray back in the freezer. Obviously this was in the olden days before automatic ice makers. She was never apologetic about it or even acknowledged that it was a BFD for everyone else.

      This is not you, of course, it’s not like someone needed to refill the cookie tray. Sometimes we just … go blank. She was, as said, probably just bummed to not have a cookie.

      1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        I have a weird coworker who will use the last ice out of the ice tray (no ice maker) and then she’ll stack the ice tray in the dish rack. I haven’t figured out why. Is she going to wash them? If so why does she wait until all 5 of them are empty? Why does an ice tray need washed? Maybe every once in a while, but I feel like you can get a few uses out of them before having to wash. Is there some other weird reason for this behavior?

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Reminds me of the time I was in the break room at work and a coworker started complaining about the donut that was cut in half… (Yep, I’m that guy).

      I don’t remember if I fessed up to it, but I did tell him he’s weird for caring.

    4. Evil HR Person*

      Whelp…! You see a thing of COOKIES and you get a hankering and then… NO cookies. I’m guessing some of her reaction stems from that. We all make mistakes and forget to throw away the thing of cookies once in a while. Maybe you’ve only done it this *one* time, but a bunch of other people do it all the time: they take the last cookie and leave the empty cookie thing, and your colleague has had about enough of empty cookie promises.

      BTW, what’s this thing about being embarrassed about taking the last of anything? I’ve noticed it a lot at different jobs, but it’s more emphasized ever since I moved to the southern US. What gives? I’ve thrown out more stale cookies than I should have! I’m sure someone would have eaten it were it not for the fact that it was THE LAST COOKIE!

      1. Embarrassed Anon*

        Lol. This is a significant cultural thing where I’m from. Taking the last cookie is Not Done. We’ll slice the last brownie into invisibility before we’ll take the last one.

        Except, apparently, me today. I saw the cookie and I fricking ate it.

    6. Mananana*

      Any chance of a light-hearted confession to the aggrieved? Tell her “Alright. I must confess something to you. I’m embarrassed to admit this: it was me. I left the empty cookie carton. Apparently my mind was so ablaze with cookie-sugar that I totally spaced on throwing away the box. You had every right to be annoyed; I’ve been annoyed when others don’t clean up after themselves. Are we cool?”

  179. My co-worker is an emotional vampire*

    I work with several of them, but one is specially challenging.
    They have my sympathies because they are treated very poorly by most of my department. But I cannot afford to listen to her daily hour-long complaining and revisiting of childhood traumas. Despite how they may interpret our relationship, I just wanna yell that WE’RE NOT THAT CLOSE!

    I try my best, but they’re very pushy and I have been trapped in conversations through the toilet stall more times than I can remember.

    I apreciate all the advice given on letters with similar content, but my office has a culture in which it is very difficult to set boundaries without offending people. Straightforwardness is considered overly confrontational and you are expected to sugarcoat and soften any possible blows. Plus, they are well-known for retaliating any perceived slight.

    How Any advice or personal anedoctes?

    1. Nita*

      This isn’t the greatest advice, but it does help a little bit. If you are having conversations with them, make them as non-conversation as possible. One-word answers, distracted looks, saying “Oh, that’s nice…” or “Oh, OK” to everything even if that response doesn’t really make sense. Have an excuse up your sleeve if they ever ask you to grab lunch together. Don’t feel self-conscious about stopping in your tracks and taking ten minutes to rummage through your pockets or read a flyer if you’re headed for the bathroom and see them going in the same direction (I mean, conversations in the toilet stall? Seriously?)

      In my experience this doesn’t help completely, and you’ll probably still get to “enjoy” them loudly complaining to others, but it could at least cut the interactions down.

    2. Chaordic One*

      When first starting out in my career I remember an older coworker (I thought she must have been about retirement age, but maybe she was only 50 or so) who would regale us with stories about her terrible childhood and upbringing. At first I felt sorry for her, but the stories went on and on, and she kept repeating them and drove most of the people in the office crazy. It just seemed kind of sad that she never really got over it, especially at her age and after all the counseling she received. I just let her talk and said things like, “Oh, that’ terrible,” or “You must have felt so bad.”

      Now that I’m older, I’m a bit better at getting people to change the subject, or changing it for them. But, yeah, what an energy suck.

  180. Tired Retail Worker*

    I’m on a job search now and I am wondering how long it has taken some people to “memorize” answers to interview questions if you already working a full-time job? Do you practice it daily? Only on days off?

    1. EA in CA*

      I would advise doing a quick google search of interview questions and just being prepared to answer questions similar to ones you can find on the internet. There are always common questions that get asked and most are around situational examples. I would just think of a few examples, write them down, then review a day before the interview. Don’t go all out “memorizing” answers because it can come off as robotic. Personally, I like candidates more when they are able to demonstrate thinking on their feet opposed to hearing something that was obviously rehearsed several times. Unless there is a technical aspect to to the interview, don’t spend too much time prepping.

      Cover the basics: research the company and be familiar with their business and mandate. don’t worry about memorizing every program, service, etc. They want to know that you know something about them or at least tried to learn about them. Do a bit of prep on interview answers like I suggested above. If you are nervous, this is must as much as about you interviewing them as them interviewing you. Always come prepared with a few questions to ask. I’ve used Alison’s Golden Question in every interview I’ve been in and have always have great feedback because of it.

      Best of luck to you! I hope this helps in some way.

  181. My co-worker is an emotional vampire*

    I work with several of them, but one is specially challenging.
    They have my sympathies because they are treated very poorly by most of my department. But I cannot afford to listen to her daily hour-long complaining and revisiting of childhood traumas. Despite how they may interpret our relationship, I just wanna yell that WE’RE NOT THAT CLOSE!

    I try my best, but they’re very pushy and I have been trapped in conversations through the toilet stall more times than I can remember.

    I apreciate all the advice given on letters with similar content, but my office has a culture in which it is very difficult to set boundaries without offending people. Straightforwardness is considered overly confrontational and you are expected to sugarcoat and soften any possible blows. Plus, they are well-known for retaliating any perceived slight.

    Any advice or personal anedoctes?

    1. Rey*

      Are you allowed to wear head phones at work? If you’ve already done the normal soft things to indicate a lack of interest (not making eye contact, bare minimum responses, continuing to do work) and they aren’t getting the hint, you just have to do what’s necessary so that you can still get your work done and not go crazy. I’m a huge fan of podcasts (Serious Eats, Sporkful) because I can’t handle 8 straight hours of music.

    2. ExcelJedi*

      This week I flat out told a coworker, “we need to move on to another topic, because I’m not comfortable with this one.” I actually had to say it twice. (It was potty training. At the lunch table. I don’t have or want children, so it had the extra special level of all being entirely new information to me.)

      It’s not rude to say you’re uncomfortable. It’s not rude to say, “I don’t have the emotional energy to talk about this,” or “I’m sorry I can’t devote any time to this conversation right now; I have a lot of work to do.” (Assuming it’s not a work related conversation.) Especially with a peer, I would suggest just being firm, clear, and polite.

      1. ExcelJedi*

        I should add, I read your third paragraph, and I would probably not survive in your office. But for your own sake, you should at least be able to say you need to work.

    3. ..Kat..*

      “When I am in the bathroom, I am taking care of personal business. I do not engage in conversation during this. Please stop.” Then ignore them if they don’t.

      As for day long rants, “I’m sorry you are having these difficulties, I need to focus on work.” Then turn away and do actual work. Just be firm and factual. Perceived slights? You are working. Maybe if they are aggrieved enough, they will leave you alone.

  182. DGA*

    Another question… a great one to have!

    So I applied for some jobs when it looked like the writing was on the wall at my current employer (from which I was terminated, sadly, see above for details). I just got a callback for a potential interview! But in the time between putting it in and now, I was fired! How do I bring that up? when do I bring it up in the process? it feels dishonest to let them assume I’m still employed and if they reference check they’d find out rapidly anyway… I want to navigate this in a way that doesn’t ruin my chances because the job is in the same field and same role as I was in before, and would be great for me

    1. Nacho*

      I would casually bring it up during the interview. “Oh, by the way, after we last spoke, I left Teapots inc, so I wanted to make you aware that the resume you have isn’t up to date.”

    2. CAA*

      This happens all the time! I can’t even tell you how many people I’ve interviewed where I asked “Can you tell me why you want to leave your current job?” and gotten the answer, “Oh, I’ve already left there since I submitted my resume.” So truly, it is no big deal that they have an older version of your resume. The next question is always, “so, why did you leave there?” so you do need to have an answer for that.

      If they don’t ask why you’re leaving, you can bring it up when they ask about the work you’re doing there. And if they don’t ask about that either, then they are incompetent interviewers.

      1. DGA*

        well I was terminated, hence it’s a bit stickier. The circumstances of that are a bit hard to explain too, I was basically terminated for a mistake, though the tool I would have used to avoid it was down for maintenance and I checked with my leadworker and they signed off on what I did.

  183. Milo*

    Favorite lunchboxes/coolers for work?
    We are having weird refrigerator drama and I’m going to join the number of people who’ve just stopped using them, if only for the satisfaction of being able to look at the complainers and coolly say “I wouldn’t know about [that food/that smell/that inappropriate container], I don’t use the fridge.”
    Needs to keep food at refrigerator temperatures all day (I’ve been looking at the kind you either put in the freezer overnight or has inserts), needs to hold a decent amount of food – I usually have a Pyrex of leftovers for lunch + some kind of fruit or veg snack. Also I’ll be pumping later this year and will likely use it for that. Needs to look professional, not hard-sided.
    (I know links can always be weird so just post brands/styles that can be Amazon-searched!)

    1. A Queen Victorious*

      I used the Mr. Bento for a long time and found it very useful. In general, if you search for bento boxes, you’ll find a lot of things along those lines that may fit what you’re looking for.

    2. wingmaster*

      I recently just bought Built NY tote bag which is made out of neoprene. It keeps food cool (or warm). I’ve yet to try it out though! What I liked about it is its minimal design – but it can fit a lot. I also like the material too, since neoprene can take a lot of abuse, good stretch, and can be thrown in the washer

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Check the school supply section of any large store, they’re having sales right now and you can probably score a couple of lunch bags for cheap. Get one larger than you think you might need, because you’ll probably want a freezer insert and those take up space. I use one called Ultra by Arctic Zone and it has an expandable section and a separate pocket for the freezer insert. I think it came with tupperware style stuff too but I didn’t use those.

    4. periwinkle*

      I have a $20 lunch box from L.L. Bean. It’s made from their backpack fabric so it’s tough and holds its shape but is not rigid. The lunch box is 9.5″x7″x3.75″ so it doesn’t take up a lot of fridge space or backpack space. At night I pack it with a small square Ziploc container (a little over 6″ square) plus some cheese or yogurt. In the morning I pop in ice packs (Fit & Fresh Cool Coolers slim ice packs, $8 for 4 at Amazon).

      The L.L. Bean lunch box comes in fun prints but also in sensible solid colors; I bought the red one but you can go really conservative with black or navy if necessary.

  184. SoSo*

    OMG! I’ve been interviewing for what’s close to the “dream” position for me- in the industry I love, doing what I went to school for, is close to home, and has an amazing culture- and I JUST got the offer call five minutes ago! I’ve been wanting this since I graduated college two years ago and the offer came in $7,000 higher than my current rate! I’m over the moon!

    A huge thank you to Alison and this website for all the help in getting my resume fixed and knowing the right way to interview. I don’t think I would have gotten it without all these fantastic resources!

  185. Just Me*

    I posted several weeks ago that my company is being sold and that we’re waiting to learn our fate as employees. I mentioned a job that I was considering, mainly because the money was a huge bump up for me, but had the potential to make me miserable due to the commute and part of the job content.

    Well. I am SO glad I decided not to apply. A colleague of mine said one his team members applied and went for the interview last week. She told him it was apparent that there is way, WAY more to the job than what was mentioned in the (rather lengthy) job posting, and that she was told more would be added once she came on board. (And there was already a lot in the posting.) During the interview she was told if she was serious about the job, she would be required to submit a plan detailing how she would go about finding a new vendor for a certain area of the company, show her research, and make a recommendation and explain why she would select that vendor. I can understand if they asked her to speak to how would attack the project and why, but their requirement is way too much, in my opinion. And, of course, if they have three “serious” candidates, that’s three recommendations they can then work with without having to pay the candidate for all that time invested.

    I think I dodged a bullet.

  186. Negotiation Question*

    How do you negotiate a different schedule, and what are the factors to consider? Is it the same format as requesting a raise? I have worked here for two years and have received phenomenal feedback. Raises are not a thing, at all, even cost of living raises (what up, state education?). It would look very out-of-touch to ask for a raise.

    I would like to come a half hour later, leave a half hour earlier. I don’t have a practical reason for this, it just would make me happier, and it would better line up with my husband’s schedule. This may not sound like a big deal, and maybe it isn’t. For context, I work with online college students, mostly returning adults. Our hours are we are supposed to be “get here between 8:30-9am and stay until 5:30-6pm.” In theory, this is so we can help our adult students after their work hours. However, most of my students contact me while they are at work, and I don’t get many emails in the evenings. I would like to work 8-5. I have one coworker who does this, he has been here about a year longer than me, and he does it for daycare reasons. There is another coworker who has a later schedule, 9:30-6:30, basically because she was late every day and so that became her schedule. Our boss is actually really flexible and does not mind us occasionally being late, leaving early, etc, and trusts us to get our work done.

    Maybe I should approach it as “could we try this and see how it goes?” And offer to schedule after 5 if a student needs it, which I would be happy to do.

    1. samiratou*

      I like the “try it and see how it goes” but would the shift allow you and your husband to carpool or anything like that? That would be a good thing to throw in.

    2. LCL*

      As long as there is nothing in writing forbidding this, sell it by emphasizing all of the benefits to the organization.
      ‘Boss, I would like to work 8-5 because we get more calls in the morning. When I stay after 5 I’m not doing much because we don’t get many calls. I would be willing to stay late if a student requests it. Can we try it for a month and see if it works out?’
      Since your boss is flexible and trusts you guys, this should be an easy yes. Don’t explain your personal reasons, while they are reasonable it is better to not throw in the personal stuff for negotiations, if you don’t have to.

  187. samiratou*

    Blargh. Awkward spots are awkward. I posted a few weeks ago asking for advice on how to “break up” with a vendor (thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies!). Turns out the sourcing department will notify the vendor but the legal department says they can’t do that until the contract is finalized for the new vendor, which will be in a couple weeks. Hopefully. But now existing vendor is finally getting around to doing the dev work they promised us last year, and should really have done as a company years ago, and they want to meet to discuss it. We don’t really want to keep meeting on something we know is dead but can’t really keep blowing them off, but we can’t tell them yet.

    I feel bad and feel like a jerk and there’s nothing I can do about it.

    1. ArtsNerd*

      Oof, can you make up a deadline crunch? “Sorry our schedule is so funky (with our regular, ongoing work.) Can we circle back (plenty of weeks from now?)”

  188. when interviewing at several different companies...*

    …what is the acceptable amount of time to “think about it”, since you’re still waiting to hear from other companies? And what if you still haven’t yet gone to an interview with the company you really want?

  189. TheWriteStuff*

    LaTEX pdf, or MS Word for equation-heavy papers?

    To Word, or not to Word, that is the question:
    Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous autocorrect,
    Or to take arms against a sea of misaligned figures and equations,
    And by opposing them, lose the battle and withdraw the paper.
    ————————————————————————–
    My boss prefers MS Word to LaTex, especially when reviewing papers, so I’m wondering if Word has gotten any better on handling equations and figures than it used to be.

    1. Thlayli*

      I think there’s an “insert equation” option in word that I recall being pretty good. it’s been 5 years since I used it tho.

    2. Almost Academic*

      I mean, if your boss prefers it and is going to be editing it, you might be stuck with Word. But LaTeX really is superior at handling all equation and formatting. I can’t imagine doing equation-heavy papers in anything else at this point. Maybe you could try using ShareLaTeX as a compromise? Various friends have had a better time getting their word-using superiors to agree to try it.

      1. TheWriteStuff*

        Thanks! I will look into ShareLaTeX. My boss used LaTex in the past, but he thinks Word is easier for reviewers. I have about 50 equations in this document, so I’m not going to recreate it in Word now.
        When I have some spare time, I’ll brush up on equations in Word and see how burdensome it might be.

    3. Mephyle*

      No, Word has not gotten better at handling equations and figures. It’s LaTeX all the way. I don’t think anyone who has worked with LaTeX would find Word’s equation editor acceptable. Once you go LaTeX there’s no going back.

      I didn’t know about ShareLaTeX; that’s an interesting bit of knowledge for me.

      When I review papers in LaTeX, I deliver (1) the edited .tex file; and (2) the result of running a file comparison between the original and the edited .tex, so the writer can see where the changes were made.

  190. MsChanandlerBong*

    At its current pace, my phone meeting is going to last about seven hours. It’s been almost two hours, and we haven’t even finished one full page of edits yet. Two people spent seven minutes arguing over whether we should use the word connect or interact. Send help!!!

    1. ArtsNerd*

      OH NOOOOOO why are you being subjected to such torture? Is there no one leading this meeting!?

      This calls for a mute button and online gaming I think.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        There are three of us reviewing our new website. We have to check all the text and make sure the buttons/links work. The problem is that the other two people think very differently from each other. One also tends to overthink minor things. I want everything to be perfect, too, but our success doesn’t hinge on whether we use Sort by Date or Date Range as a header on a page that lets people filter orders by date, lol

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          I’ve been in those meetings. (On a website design project) It’s amazing to see grown people quibbling over random words.

          I think the last word we got stuck on was “Effectivity Date” vs. “Effective Date”

          In case this was going to keep you up at night, we went with what I thought was the correct term, “Effective Date”

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Oh no… on a Friday?! What fresh hell is this?

      At least it’s a phone meeting and you’re not stuck in a room.

    3. MsChandandlerBong*

      The good news is that my call is over after 3 hours and 5 minutes. The bad news is twofold. 1) We only got like five pages done out of dozens. 2) Now it’s time for Share Day, which means I have to hop on another call instead of doing the actual work I need to get done before I leave today.

  191. ArtsNerd*

    Oh my god one of my (Cali-based, weed-industry employed) Slack friends just casually mentioned that his employer has been working from his *studio apartment* for TWO MONTHS now and it’s causing absolute chaos among us.

    He mentioned it when they first moved in and we all reacted very strongly then. TWO MONTHS AGO.

    Are we trying to convince him to write AAM? Yes. We are also suggesting a Reddit AMA. This is beyond absurd.

    2. Buu*

      Perhaps he can suggest they use a co-working space? Many let you pay daily or weekly and are secure locations where you can also book meeting rooms etc. A far saner solution then a studio flat!

    3. TheWriteStuff*

      I think I read a while ago that many legal marijuana distributors are being targeted by thieves, due to banks not allowing direct deposits (don’t want to get into trouble with Federal gov’t).

      Your friend may be in danger if they think the cash is stored there!

      1. TheWriteStuff*

        (sorry for possible duplicate answer, a word triggered the moderation)
        I think I read a while ago that many legal distributors are being targeted by thieves, due to banks not allowing direct deposits (don’t want to get into trouble with Federal gov’t).

        Your friend may be in danger if they think the cash is stored there!

        1. ArtsNerd*

          Eek! I hadn’t even thought of that! I was so fixated on the horrible lack of boundaries (basically literally) that it didn’t occur to me.

  192. CBE*

    Which cost of living calculator online do you think is most realistic? After spending three weekends apartment hunting, I am finding that what Bankrate’s says for where I live now is…waaaaay off. Says $645 for a 1 bed apartment, I can’t find ANY under $1K/month.

    1. LCL*

      Apartment cost is actually a good question for your local subreddit, if it isn’t too toxic. I see these questions at least once a week. The locals will be able to get really granular, down to specific blocks.

    2. TheWriteStuff*

      Would you be able to find a roommate to share costs? Sometimes the 2-bedroom units don’t cost much more than the 1-bedrooms.
      Good luck on the apartment hunt!

    3. The Other CC*

      I live in one of the more “affordable” major metros in the U.S. and you’d be hard-pressed to find a one-bedroom for much less than $1k/month in most neighborhoods you’d want to live in. Even the ‘burbs are closer to $1k than $600, since so many of the apartments out there are new and classified as “luxury” builds and they charge the rent to match. Maybe Bankrate is using old data? Citydata.com might have some information on median rents, utility costs, etc. that you could cobble together to come up with a realistic COL estimate for your area.

      We lucked into a $925 1 bedroom by looking on Hotpads and Zillow, which will have more independent landlords and people renting out garage apartments, etc., whereas places like apartments.com will mostly have bigger complexes that are more expensive, at least in my town.

  193. Kaden Lee*

    In everybody’s opinion, what is the difference between an abusive boss and an overbearing/mean/jerk boss? My boyfriend and I disagree on which camp my boss is in, with my boyfriend saying my boss is abusive and me saying my boss is just a grade A a-hole.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Hmm. I’ve had both. I would say that the difference is in their targets. My abusive boss made me feel like a moron, made fun of me, told me he hadn’t said things when he had, and would say the most cutting things in an effort to make me feel small, uneducated, incompetent, etc. My jerk boss didn’t listen, played favorites, was horrible at giving constructive feedback, and criticized her team for things that were her fault. So I would say that the abuser targeted my self-esteem while the jerk just targeted my work. I had another jerk who didn’t start out that way, but after a while he would blow up out of nowhere and get really angry at things, but then he would calm down and go out of his way to work it out. I liked him a lot, still thought he was kind of a jerk. I found out after I left that he had his meds adjusted and was back to being his old collegial self, and it made me really sad because his outbursts had seriously affected our relationship and were a big reason why I left. He and I are cool now, though.

      I’m still recovering from the abusive boss, and it’s been almost two years since I laid eyes on him.

      1. LQ*

        I think this seems like what I’d say to. A jerk is just a jerk to everyone about everything. An abuser is personal, an abuser attacks you personally, not your work, but you as a human. A jerk may attack your work, attack everyone’s work, will be shitty and hard to work with, but won’t attack you as a person. An abuser is personal, a jerk is impersonal. I think you can grow to like or understand a jerk, but never an abuser. An abuser I think is more likely to run hot and cold where as a jerk you’re more likely to know what to expect. I think my boss definitely has some jerk tendencies, but he’s never personal and when personal things happen he’s exceptionally compassionate, but if you do less than 100% on the work? He’s going to chew you out for it or assign you away from it.

        1. MissDisplaced*

          +1
          That’s a good description and I’ve had both. I add that a “jerk” boss can also mean a lot of micromanaging and controlling issues, but it’s seldom personal, even if you might take it as such.
          Abusers also gaslight or may even take steps to actively undermine you because they take enjoyment fron doing so (bully mentality). Jerk bosses don’t operate that way.

  194. Morning Glory*

    I feel really frustrated with my org’s HR department. We are trying to hire an admin and I am doing the the interviews but am not the hiring manager, and am only interviewing the people HR selected, who passed their phone screen.
    I am pretty sure HR is not looking at the cover letters. At all. They send the resumes, and make me respond to request the cover letter, every time. This morning’s interview, the candidate literally got our name wrong on her cover letter, and then again in person. For next week’s interview, the cover letter is a blanket letter to the org “for any positions” even though she applied specifically to this position (and it was really, really bad). It was like she mass applied to everything we have open and decided customizing her cover letter was too much work.

    This is not the best place to work as an admin (former admin speaking), but I feel like HR sending through some really bad candidates and I don’t know if better candidates are getting screened out. I’m not the hiring manager, so I can’t exactly demand to see all of the resumes, but feel frustrated that my time is getting wasted with interviews for candidates I would screen out in two seconds.

  195. The Other CC*

    Happy Friday all! (well, it’s my…Wednesday? I don’t know anymore, I have too many part-time gigs to keep track of the days of the week anymore).

    So, what IS the situation with the job market? Someone posted that article at the beginning of happy hour about how the job market is soooo tight that candidates are blowing off job interviews left and right, and of course everyone in the media keeps talking about labor shortages and record-low unemployment. But then my brother-in-law with two bachelor’s degrees in the sciences can’t get an interview and he’s been searching for over a year now (I mean, anecdotes are not data, and it could just be him…). When I was looking for work in my field last winter, I had difficulty getting replies to my resume and cover letters. I’m planning to spend some time this weekend applying for some entry-level professional/admin-type jobs, and so I’m wondering – what IS the labor market like for more white-collar positions? Is it actually as tight and hard to find good people as the current buzz would have us believe? Are your companies having a hard time hiring right now for regular office jobs? Or is the “tight labor market” really just code for “it’s so hard to find people to work terrible jobs for lousy pay!”?

    1. CAA*

      It depends heavily on your field and your location. This is pretty much always true though. Even a few years ago when people were complaining about high unemployment, I had jobs that were very hard to fill because there’s a shortage of certain skills in this area and remote work is not always feasible. I had to send cold emails to people on LinkedIn and offer relocation for some roles.

      My DD is also having trouble finding a career job. That’s because the place she wants to live doesn’t have very many jobs in her field, and there are also lots of volunteers who will essentially do the work for free. She hasn’t yet come to terms with the idea that she’s going to have to pay her dues and find a job in a less desirable place in order to eventually get a paying role in the place she wants to be. On the other hand, I know that there’s a shortage of workers in my field in the city where she wants to live and some companies there are opening offices here to try to alleviate that problem. Unfortunately, the two fields are not related, so I can’t help her get a job in my field.

    2. I Hear U*

      I think it’s a combination of “terrible jobs for lousy pay” including gig economy jobs like Uber , plus a proliferation of jobs that used to be full-time with benefits are now part-time without benefits (so they are officially employing twice as many people!!), and also unpaid internships. So basically people are employed BUT many are underemployed/not being treated fairly by their employers :(. Construction Safety started a thread above that evolved into a discussion of strict requirements/low pay that you might find interesting if you missed it.

    3. Lady Kelvin*

      To piggback a bit on CAA’s answer one of the biggest reasons for this discrepancy is that the places which have lots of available jobs are not the same places that have lots of workers looking for jobs, partly due to desirability of living location. Many people aren’t willing to move for a job into an undesirable place and many more people can’t afford to move where the jobs are.

    4. Gatomon*

      In general I think employers are still being too selective, and there is still a large stigma against people who aren’t currently employed or are new/trying to change fields. Pay is barely creeping up as well. Fast food pays $11/hour now so why would I want to be a manager for $12? When I was more involved in the hiring world a few years ago it seemed like employers were willing to do all sorts of things EXCEPT pay more money.

      Even with my own employer I see this happening. They are rolling out all sorts of perks to make it more comfortable to work here like massages and food trucks and ping pong tables and dogs in the office… but they’d probably do better if they advertised their salary range, retirement package and bonus structure sandwiched between pictures of happy employees rock climbing with the corp logo on their nalgeens.

      1. The Other CC*

        Yeah, as a career-changer, this is what has got me absolutely terrified. I’ve got a degree, six years work experience at good companies, great references, am currently employed…but it would be easy for someone hiring for an Assistant Manager of Llama-Grooming to look at my resume and write me off as just a lowly Teapot-Maker, and I’ll get stuck as a Llama Groomer making $12/hr with no benefits forevvvvverrrrrr.

        I know I’m just psyching myself out as a way to continue to procrastinate on my job search but dang. Glad to hear I’m not crazy to listening to all these hopeful news stories about the labor market and thinking “that doesn’t sound right.”

  196. DrWombat*

    Jerk coworker is leaving in a month! Yay! Also we got new computers so I can get caught up on data analysis.

    Bad news – the SOP I needed for something doesn’t apparently exist, bc jerk coworker never made it. >< But my boss gave me guidelines at least.

  197. Courageous cat*

    I had to make an extremely difficult decision yesterday and turned down an offer to go back to my old job. It would have been such a great opportunity on paper (interesting industry, highest-ranking title I would have ever had in my life, being at the top of a quickly growing company, stupid amounts of money) but I was so unhappy with the level of dysfunction there and the way my days would have been structured, that I just… couldn’t. I mean, when I was still working there, I put in my 2 weeks *twice*. It could have somehow magically been better this time, but if I ended up wanting to leave after a few months again – I would likely ruin that reference/burn the bridge for good. And I can’t afford that, *especially* if I have a higher-stakes title.

    But on the other hand, I’m pretty poor right now due to the job I left for, like literally scraping together money to eat, and every other job is trying to pay me a full 20k less (which is a substantial amount at the level I’m at – mid-level manager), and the money I would have gotten would have been life-changing. Truly life-changing. so it sucks. It sucks sooooo muuuuuch. I’m so mad that I can’t just bury the frustration that comes with the job and just deal with it.

    My old boss appreciated my honesty, at least, and we ended the conversation on a good note. And now I have to really start job searching (which I am feeling extremely demoralized about already) because of my current job’s pay.

    (This is all after I had accepted a job in a new industry that was perfect for me, and difficult to get into – but the offer was rescinded a week after I accepted because they hadn’t GOTTEN APPROVAL FROM ACCOUNTING BEFOREHAND FOR MY SALARY. WHYYYYYY. My life could have been perfectly good if they hadn’t jerked me around like that.)

    Sorry for the ramble.

    1. Courageous cat*

      My point being, please tell me it was a smart decision to value my day-to-day happiness and mental health over a ton of money and possibly the best move I could have made in my career.

    2. Kathenus*

      It was absolutely a smart decision to prioritize you and your mental well-being. I’ve been in dysfunctional organizations, and unless there was a tremendous changeover of leaders and culture, the problems you had before would crop up again at some point. I know it doesn’t put money in your account to do the right thing, but one internet stranger thinks that you absolutely, positively, did the right thing. Good luck and I hope a new opportunity is right around the corner.

          1. Courageous cat*

            I may, but fortunately I am not quite at that point yet – I will think about it if I get there, though. Thank you.

  198. Le sigh.*

    A couple of years ago, I had to take a “must-hire” onto my team. Fast forward, her entitlement is on my last nerve. She’s under-qualified, overpaid, and taking up valuable space on my team for someone who actually values the job and will help me grow the program to its full potential. (She actually told me that she views this current stint as a learning experience for what she doesn’t want to do, as she doesn’t respect our job function – yet has no intention of leaving). Its increasingly hard to hide my disdain.

    Any tips?

    1. Courageous cat*

      I’m not 100% sure the context behind being a “must-hire”, so what’s stopping you from being able to manage her out of the company with progressive discipline?

      1. Le sigh*

        family ties to executive leadership (and were not a small company). So that, unfortunately.

        1. Darren*

          You might want to check the situation. A lot of “must-hire” doesn’t mean you have to keep them if they aren’t working out just that for one reason or another (in this case family) you have to give them a legitimate shot.

        2. Courageous cat*

          Ahhh yeah, that’s rough. I guess the only thing I would try to do is limit her responsibility and overall participation – maybe she’ll quit?

      1. Le sigh.*

        With her salary so inflated, I can’t justify another person on my team because our revenue isn’t that big (it could be bigger if I had competent employees!).

        Working on the transfer, but unfortunately she likes what I run the best out of all the options she doesn’t like in our department. Transferring her may mean giving up a piece of my hard earned program to another manager. But I’m wondering if that’s just worth my sanity at this point.

  199. Student Moving Out*

    I’m wondering about meeting etiquette, specifically if one party is late.
    How long do you wait for someone before going back to your desk/office?
    Does it depend on the length the meeting is supposed to have? The other day a colleague went for a 30min meeting and then waited on front of their office for 25min until someone showed up (no heads up message of any kind) and then they went straight to lunch…
    Personally, I would probably have left after 10-15 minutes and send a quick mail or text to tell them where to find me.
    Is there a minimum length of time someone should wait? I often feel like a lot of people are at least 5min late to meetings so I guess at least 5-10min?

    Do things like hierarchy play a part? E.g. waiting almost indefinitely for the head of department but maybe not for someone on your level?

    If you’re on the other side, when you notice your earlier commitment is going to be longer than planned, what do you do? How soon and how many notices you send to the person you’re meeting with next, if any?

    1. Catwoman*

      I generally give about 15 minutes for someone at my level and send them an email saying either that I’ll be at my desk or offering times to reschedule. For someone in a more elevated position, I’d give it about 20 (also depends on how much more elevated…).

      I try to send an email/text if I’m going to be more than 5 minutes late. This also depends on who the meeting is with. I won’t leave the Dean of my college waiting for even 5 minutes.

      A lot of this also depends on your workplace culture. If it’s more laid back and people are frequently late, allow more time. If it’s a more rigid structure, then you might want to send word if you’re going to be even a minute late. Hierarchy is definitely worth taking into consideration, but to a point. I’ve left a group meeting that included our Dean before because I needed to get across campus to teach a class.

    2. StudentA*

      Check out home building companies like DuPont and Ryan Homes. They hire Purchasing Managers to source their materials and from what I’ve seen in the their ads, they’re not picky about previous industry, as long as you understand supply chain. I know oil and gas companies do too. They have offices in tons of cities and need buyers for the stuff they sell in convenience stores and supplies like floor mats for cars.

        1. StudentA*

          I’m so glad you saw my post! I always worry about catching these posts after the rush :)

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      We are conference call heavy at my company. That being said… it depends.

      *If it’s a 2-3 person meeting and 1 person is late we all tend to go with the 7 minute rule unless a note is received saying the person will be joining shortly. Meeting will be rescheduled. More time is given for executives.

      *If it’s a large meeting but a key participant is late, generally at the 7-10 min mark meeting will be cancelled and rescheduled

      *If it’s a large meeting and enough people are present to go forward, meeting goes forward and person loses opportunity to weigh in or get information

      * If it’s a standing meeting hosted by key participant, even if the key participant is late, someone will step in and start meeting at 5-10 meeting mark.

      I will say that my company has a very heavy IM culture, so people will either ping someone to let them know if they will be late or they will ping them to see if they are joining the meeting. Texting as well. This usually happens at the 3-5 minute mark.

    4. LQ*

      Apparently I’m very odd. I will wait longer for most people, but for meetings with the director (most senior person we have around here essentially) I usually wait about 5 minutes or less. If it’s a 1-1 I’ll just send a message saying if he has time to let me know, if it’s a meeting that I can run without him I do. He knows when his meetings are and if he decides that the thing he’s doing now is more important that’s totally reasonable. If it’s other people generally I am to start the meetings on time when I’m running it. If I’m not I will start getting annoyed if the person running it hasn’t started up in the first 5, but I try not to get crabby until 10. After 10 I get pushy though. We start the meeting or we reschedule. All that said if someone had a meeting before with Director and they are running late we just assume that meeting ran over and decide to go on or reschedule. People don’t often send notices but we don’t have company cellphones (mostly) so that may be why.

      We are a fairly on time kind of culture. I tend think we are a little loose but really thinking about actual meetings, yeah 5 minutes is a long time to be late around here, sometimes you have to go from floor to floor but it’s not that far and 5 minutes would cover just about all the spaces.

      Also of note our largest group of employees are a call center, minutes really matter. This may play a role, even when meetings don’t involve them the meeting before or after may and we definitely kick people out of rooms, even very high level people if they run long.

  200. Courageous cat*

    And on a totally separate note, if anyone is still even reading this:

    Say your experience is primarily as a reasonably high-level “inventory manager” in retail. Degree in social sciences. And you want to get out of retail, and transfer your skills to a new position. Mainly I want to get out of the field where “company produces a good and sells it”, honestly, but that’s proving difficult to do.

    What the hell would you search for?

    I use Indeed/Linkedin/Craigslist, and searching “Inventory manager” typically gets me forklift/warehouse/physical labor jobs, which are not for me.
    My skills are pretty transferrable to things like “buyer”, “logistics”, “operations”, etc, but not enough experience specific to those fields to find anything worthwhile. I get interviews for these things but they never culminate.

    Maybe I’m just not marketable. Honestly, I’d go ahead and just do an apprenticeship in plumbing or something if the thought of being a female in a male-heavy environment didn’t preemptively make me annoyed at the possible dynamic.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Logistics manager is what I’d target. But I think you’re going to have to get over being a female in a male heavy world. These jobs are typically warehouse related and even as a manager you will be expected to lean heavy into the warehouse/transportation world.

      Buyer sounds different from what you describe your background to be, that position works closely with vendors, placing POs, tracking demand, etc.

      Now if you want to get into the buyer/procurement world, I would suggest going for some certifications. APICS is the most applicable here, that would probably help you in either role mentioned above, but more so if you are looking for a more office based position.

      signed,
      -Randomuser… former logistics manager (female)

      1. Courageous cat*

        I think that’s what I may try to target more moving forward, too. I am potentially in the running for a Logistics Coordinator role, but damn has it been hard to find one more in a management capacity, since what I did as an IM was not so much.. manage moving product around, but managing the product that was already there. So it’s adjacent and uses many similar skills, but not quite the same.

        My job had a few aspects of buying, as each store and market had a different assortment, and we were doing a lot of forecasting/strategic replenishment/etc. But yeah, it’s not nearly closely related enough to actually get my foot in the buying door. I will look into those certifications! I haven’t even thought about doing anything like that but that might be wise.

        Thanks for your input! (btw what do you do now?)

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          Yep, I think a coordinator role or entry level buyer is probably more what you are looking for. Inventory/logistics/buyer managers tend to be in the 5-10 year experience range from what I’ve seen . From what you describe you could easily relate your current experience into a coordinator or equivalent role.

          As for what I do now, without giving away too much detail as to out myself, I’m a senior level manager who works with manufacturing scheduling and order escalations among other responsibilities.

          However I’ve had a very unconventional path to my career that I’m not sure how repeatable or relevant it is to anyone looking to get into the field :)

    2. Mariella*

      I am a ‘senior purchasing executive’.
      Its half buyer/half finance.

      Other roles ive looked at are ‘Supply Chain Planner’, ‘Merchandiser’, ‘stock analyst’, ‘stock controller’ etc im part qualified for all but not fully for any.. i feel the pain! I also look at more senior titles so if its a co ordinator or a senior position etc.

    3. wingmaster*

      I’m not sure what type of niche you’re in, but I use Malakye to look at job postings. It’s like a LinkedIn for Outdoors/Action Sports, but I think there are great opportunities that you wouldn’t see on LinkedIn/Craigslist. If you want to expand your search

  201. I suck at finance*

    How would you explain what the following means to a 10 year old: when I stay at my company for 5 years, I become vested.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I would put it in school year terms.

      “Let’s say I want to encourage kids to attend and stay in a particular school. I might offer all of the kids $1 a year (or some random amount of money) for each year they attend the school, that would encourage them to choose my school. But I also want them to stay, so I’m going to hold on to that money I give them, until they have been there for a certain amount of time, let’s say until 4th grade. If they leave before the the 4th grade then I keep the money, but if they stay until 4th grade then they will be able to have that money when they move on to middle school.”

      You would have to clean up that example but they should be able to relate it a little more easily than trying to understand work.

      1. Courageous cat*

        This is very helpful for me as someone who had no idea what it meant either, ha. Makes perfect sense.

    2. anonagain*

      Is there an actual 10 year old you need to explain this to or is this an interview question?

  202. Anonawife*

    Happy Friday everyone! I’m following up with a happy ending. last November my husband was let go from his job and this group provided some good support. The great news is that this week he was offered a permanent position at the place he was temping It’s full-time, better pay, benefits, and free coffee. thank you!

  203. Kathy*

    Just a funny story: today I met a guy that does my job (I’m a type of engineer) that we’re planning on mobilizing to site. He apparently left one of our direct competitors to come work for us. I was checking Linkedin earlier today and got two messages from that exact direct competitor frantically asking me to come work for them on their projects! There are two different projects, one in the Middle East and one in South America. I showed the messages to my boss and he was like, “what! I only got the Middle East one!” I showed the messages to some of my coworkers that are different types of engineers and we started comparing which projects they asked us to come work on. One of the guys got an East European country and also the South American one, and the other got the Middle East one. We all had a pretty good laugh about it.

  204. Anxious Underling*

    I have been at my current job for nine months. Recently, my supervisor sat down with me, along with our Executive Director, talked about how I was doing and then gave me some goals. My boss said, “this is not meant to be punitive,” and ever since then we’ve done smaller check-ins and the feedback has been mostly positive. But because anxiety/imposter syndrome, I’m terrified that I’m on some sort of PIP or on track to be fired and I just don’t know it. How can I ask in a meeting if I’m in danger of being fired without appearing paranoid?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      It could be PIP like, but they should have told you that if it was the case. Or, it could be a more regular goal and growth setting plan to bring a new employee up to the level they need for the roll. Either way, you should be taking appropriate steps to meet those goals and asking for regular feedback as you proceed.

  205. Lurked For Years*

    Found out yesterday that as of August 1 I will be promoted to a Manager position with a direct report. They’re transitioning someone from another team (who has been in that role 15+ years) to my team in this assistant role. I’m anxious, and excited, about this step in my career.

    I will be hunkering down to read every “new manager” tip I can find….

  206. HigherEdTransfer*

    I might be too late for this thread, in which case I will try again tomorrow or next week. I am currently looking for a position in higher ed, after finishing graduate school. This will be a complete career change for me, but I have 10 years of work experience. I had an interview in the DFW area, and while I really liked the people in the office – I really didn’t love the area. Or even like it really. They took me on a driving tour of the city, and the campus and I just did not care for the city. I don’t have an offer, but I do want to have an idea if I would want to consider the position based on how I felt about the city.

    Theoretically, I could stay where I am at (I’m living with family) and find a temporary job until I find something more appealing. I’m just wondering from someone in higher ed if this would be a feasible move, or if it would look bad to have this kind of gap on my resume. OR, someone from the DFW area, especially those that moved here from elsewhere, are appearances deceiving?

    1. nep*

      I’ve got no insights into this at all–but just wanted to pass this on. A long shot, but in case it’s of interest, and perhaps an opportunity for some freelance work….Have you got copy editing/fact-checking skills?
      I saw an ad that the media company Inside Higher Ed is seeking a copy editor during vacation/leave for a few days in September (with a day of training in August). The ad says there would be the possibility of further work.
      (Aside from that, it looks like the website has a lot on job leads.)
      All the best

  207. Pathfinder Ryder*

    I work admin on a hospital ward and was grabbed, pinched, and scratched by a patient this week, completely out of the blue. I’ve been job hunting almost my entire time at this job (I meant it to be a first job after graduation which I quickly move on from, but got stuck here for lack of experience in several duties of non-healthcare admin roles) and have never more wanted to leave.

  208. Obliviate*

    My company moved into new offices about 6 months ago. In that time, I have accidentally walked into the women’s restroom at least four times. The doors are only about 10 feet apart, open the same way, and the signs are next to the doors, not on them. The sinks and stalls are laid out identically, so sometimes I make it all the way into the stall where the urinal would be before I realize my mistake. There’s never been anyone in there the times I’ve done this, but I’d like to avoid such an encounter, for everyone’s sake!

    Does anyone have any suggestions?

    1. Forking great username*

      It sounds like you’re on autopilot when you do this. If that’s the case I would think just slow down and be purposeful about it when walking to the bathroom.

    2. Lady Madonna*

      Get some art up in there, even if its just a poster, as an immediate visual cue.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Has anyone else done it? Part of it is you on autopilot (I’ve done the same at work because the sides are switched on different floors). But if the doors aren’t clearly marked, they sell small stick on signs at office supply type stores for this purpose. Or, you could just print some and tape on. Google universal bathroom signs for the logos.

  209. Drivesmenuts*

    Just need to vent about my crazy coworker who is a drama queen and likes to play the victim. This means everything is a BIG DEAL and nothing is her fault. Today was hard for me because I just didn’t have the patience to deal with her manic episodes. She was alternately dancing and laughing about nothing, or being grouchy and muttering under her breath about nothing. I just try to ignore her but it’s tiring. End rant.

  210. Nines*

    I’ll try and post this again sometime when it’s not so late in the day, but I just wanted to say a big Thank You!!!! to the readers who gave me some super helpful tips on my interview with the feds. I got the job!!!!! I’m so excited!! I still have to make it through all the background check stuff, so still another couple months. But as long as I’m cleared the job is mine!! I’m so so very pleased. And I REALLY appreciated the advice I got here.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Oh wow, congratulations!
      I’ve often wondered how people get those. There was a time I was applying for a lot of them, but I never progressed beyond a phone screen.

      1. Nines*

        I managed to get an internship there over the last year (it’s at the V.A.) so I had an “in”. But we still aren’t considered internal applicants. And there were a lot of interns, so I was still super nervous!

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Congratulations, and welcome aboard. I hope the background check goes swiftly and smoothly, and that you have a good (and thorough) onboarding process to your agency. You are entering it at a time of great upheaval, so staying focussed on your department’s mission, in general, and on completing the tasks of *your* job, in particular, will help with navigating the ride. Please do get to know (1) your supervisor’s expectations for what s/he thinks success looks like in your job, and (2) your timekeeper, who will be able to answer a lot of your questions about how to fill out your timesheet. Good luck!

  211. Constantly Sleepy*

    Rant.

    It’s been coming up on 6 months of job searching and nothing – a few interviews but nothing concrete (plus academic appointments take so long too. I’ve been looking in the private and public sector but student loans are going to f*** me up either way) :( On top of everything, I’m out of money for grad school (just a few more semesters until I can finish my dissertation) and full of a lot of anxiety about what’s going to happen in the coming months. I know this will be buried amongst everyone else’s posts but I’ve been having such big ups and downs (depression combined with hopeful combined with motivated along with being sore – started working out). Little to no support from family (other than the typical “you can do it” without really understanding the problem) and just constantly sleepy. Like seriously, I can’t sleep at night but struggling to stay awake during the day. Just needed to get it out. Thanks for anyone who read this.

    1. ..Kat..*

      I’m so sorry. I have no suggestions except for a local food bank to stretch your money. Good luck. As a student, can you access student healthcare for your anxiety?

  212. Lady Madonna*

    I’m approaching a job change, expecting an offer in the next week or so (after 4 interviews with the prospective new employer). I have an expensive non-refundable week vacation (with extended family, planned months in advance) that might fall within the two-week notice period. I have not got the offer yet, and have not given notice. If/when that day arrives, what are some graceful ways to handle this with courtesy to both old and new employer?

  213. Buu*

    Does the new job have an ironclad start date? if not can you delay it by a week or two so you can take your holiday?

  214. MajorAttitude*

    Longtime lurker first-time poster: How to manage people who aren’t actually my reports? I am managing a challenging and new-to the company project with a team assigned to me from across departments. Their respective supervisors are very passive and don’t correct any problematic behaviors. One very skilled individual snapped at me, then blew up when I pushed for an explanation, they also used the “everyone thinks you’re difficult to work with” card and threatened to go to HR. Also, they tend to have a disrespectful tone on them and like to bad mouth others (including me and higher ups). Is it out-dated to expect a respectful tone and the willingness to follow my decisions even if they disagree? Can I correct their behaviors? If I go to their boss or bosses boss I fear that I will damage the relationship that I have built with the individual. We talked about the incident and they claimed it was about my tone and acting as if I knew everything better. I explained that I shoulder the responsibility and risk and they accepted that. I said I’d work on my tone, they apologized for their side, all is now good for now. A neutral observer whom I asked about whether my tone was out of line with the team said ‘not even once’. I have received negative feedback on my tone before and that came from a group that felt directly threatened by me being hired. My management is backing me fully, but I still worry if I am too hard on people.

  215. Banana Pancakes*

    Alison often advises applicants apply and move on. But how do you do that when you’re counting on that position to pay your rent? My current job search has been mostly dead air and autorejections. I’m following the advice here as best I can, but I’m honestly desperate and it makes it really difficult to forget about applications, especially in the rare event that I actually get an interview.

    My last interviewer spent about 10hr with me on the phone (initial interview, testing, second interview), kept saying things like “when you get the offer” and telling me they’d have relocation assistance. I know that it doesn’t mean anything until you have an offer in hand but it was still really hard to see the job had been reposted when they haven’t even bothered to formally reject me.

    Does anyone have some advice?

    1. wingmaster*

      Having the job reposted doesn’t necessarily mean you’re out of the race. I know on some website, postings are automatically reposted. Have you followed up with this company yet?

  216. TheWonderGinger*

    Good News!

    I have a 2nd interview/job preview scheduled on Monday for a job I am EXTREMELY excited about.

    My question is this, at my interview this week I wore a dress and blazer and noticed that most everyone else was business casual (none of my interviewers wore a blazer, think more cardigans and blouses) should I continue to rock my dress and blazer combo for the job shadow/preview portion or would it be okay to go more the cardigan and slacks route? The position is admin work in a healthcare setting, and I come from a office culture where jeans are an everyday thing and people wear their sportsball gear frequently so not sure how to navigate this.

    1. wingmaster*

      I always like to do the “one-step higher” way, which is dressing more professional, or one step higher, than I would on my first day of work. But I think it’s fine to rock either outfit that you have!

      Good luck on your 2nd interview!

  217. Am I Right or Am I Wrong?*

    Looking for input on whether my nonprofit employer’s salary scale makes sense to anyone else. We operated under a salary freeze for nearly a decade, and have begun trying to adjust people closer to what the market rate would be for their positions today. Management calculated salary bands based on position type and years of experience with a low, middle, and high point based on years of experience (capped at 10 years for each band). The weird part is this: they start everyone who gets promoted at 0 years of experience in their new band, regardless of their actual experience and their years of experience in the previous band. So, having recently been promoted, I now find myself making less than I would be if I’d stayed in my old job! I had 7 years of experience there and was approaching the high end of the scale, but am now starting at the bottom of the scale for my new and higher-level position (which requires a minimum of 5 years’ experience at the level below). I just can’t wrap my head around this – but is it normal and I’m missing something?

    2. StellaBella*

      Go to glassdoor.com and look up salaries in your area and field. Also look up labour stats and salary surveys for your field, too, search LinkedIn, and google and then take your results and talk to your manager about this. See if there is room to negotiate for more pay.

  218. Captain Vegetable (Crunch Crunch Crunch)*

    If I had an interview on Tuesday, can I still send a thank you? Work became super hectic and I just forgot.

    2. wingmaster*

      Better late than never! You should be fine sending one, since it’s still within that one week frame. You could combine your thank you+follow up on the job too

  219. Globetrotta*

    I have a racist coworker. She’s not the type of racist that drops epithets but more of the “wait, black people know how to swim?” and “I couldn’t possibly be racist – I have black friends” type. We need to work pretty closely so I waited far far far too long to confront her about it. It was a very uncomfortable conversation but in no uncertain terms I told her that I was uncomfortable with the language she was using to and around me, that it needed to stop, and that if it didn’t stop, I wouldn’t give her the courtesy of making it a private meeting next time. Our work relationship has deteriorated in the months since then, to the point that when I called out an error that she made, she has all but stopped talking to me. And then it happened again – “in my experience, black people never comb llamas for fun; only white people do. Black people only comb llamas to make a living” with the subtext here being that combing llamas is an expensive and privileged activity. I was so floored in the moment I didn’t call it out directly but now I’m at a loss for what I should do – speak to her privately again? Speak to her boss? Speak to my boss? Go to HR?

  220. Ron*

    I think my old boss might be telling people I was fired.

    Short version of a long story: I went to HR about how my boss was treating me, and after the investigation I was given the option to resign with severance while my boss was disciplined (I don’t know the details). This was all last year.

    But this week, one of my co-workers from that job contacted me on social media and said he was glad to see that I was back on my feet after being let go. But I wasn’t fired, like I said.

    It’s not HR saying this, because I’ve given them as a reference before, and never received any questions about it.

    I’m not even sure if it’s worth contacting my old boss or my old company. I’m upset by it, but I get the feeling it won’t affect me in the long run.

  221. ThatAspie*

    Hi! I have a question about site rules.

    How specific can we be about our jobs on here? Like, obviously, I don’t want to totally blow cover right and left, but my job is super exciting and interesting (I think), but there is so much about it that would give away which restaurant I work at, and I don’t know if I should make it easy to determine where I work or not. Like, this chain is so recognizable, it’s been mentioned in movies and referenced on TV shows. It’s so unique, that if I mentioned even some of the slightest details about it, everyone here would instantly know which one it is. It’s been around for decades, and just about everyone in this continent (at least) has either been in one or knows someone who has. Even the types of food we serve could give it away, we’re that special! So…how quiet do we have to be, exactly? I mean, really, I’ve been leaving a lot out when I talk about it here so far, but I don’t know how much longer I can take wrapping everything up!

    1. Sorry about that*

      I don’t recall anyone giving specific information about jobs. General descriptions of type of organization but no names or locations except for general area.

      1. ThatAspie*

        Okay then. But, like, here’s the thing: almost anything would be “specific” in this context. So much so, that it’s really hard for me to even think of examples of things that aren’t too obvious. Like, think if a teapot-building company also had jobs for people who make lights blink and people who Safety-test each teapot CPSC-style, and the teapots themselves each had a picture on them of the company mascot, Lief T. McLeaf, whose face was plastered on every wall of the buildings for this teapot company. Heck, even my fictional example feels like I risk giving away too much!

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