open thread – February 1-2, 2019

by Alison Green on February 1, 2019

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. BirthdayWeek*

    We have a set number of PTO days which allot for our sick and vacation time. I’m taking 10 days off in March for a vacation, which is 60% of my yearly PTO. Six weeks after I return from my vacation, I plan on leaving my company. I’d like to give them as much advanced notice as possible given my niche position.

    Is taking a bunch of PTO and then giving notice the ‘wrong’ thing to do? I’ve been with this company for five years and I don’t want to burn bridges – this is the first ‘real’ job I’ll be leaving. The time off has already been approved and the vacation is booked. Not sure what my company’s policy is for reimbursing unused PTO. (Anyone know if it’s regulated USA state by state?)

    1. Wendie*

      Not a big deal! No one will notice I bet. We had a pastor do this (talk about a hard position to fill) and who would begrudge a good employee their vacation?

    2. ThatGirl*

      Not the wrong thing to do – people have lives and make plans.

      Laws for unused PTO payout do vary by state -I know Illinois mandates payout. You may also find, depending on your company’s accrual policy, that you actually owe them if you’ve dipped into unaccrued territory, but that may not be the case.

      1. FTW*

        This was my thought as well. At my firm, we have a set number of sick/personal days for the year given at the start, but we accrue a certain number of vacation days each month. If I took 60 % in March, I’d be in the negative.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Not wrong at all. Lots of people use vacation up prior to leaving, especially if you aren’t paid out when you leave. It’s your benefit to use while employed, nobody should be upset by you using the time, if they are, that’s on them.

    4. Minerva McGonagall*

      I gave two weeks notice the week after I returned from my wedding and honeymoon (nearly two weeks out of the office). It’s just how everything happened in regards to timing for the new job. You should be fine to give them six weeks once you get back from your vacation!

    5. Natalie*

      PTO payout is regulated state by state. Additionally, some states have case law that generally enforces whatever is written in the handbook (that is, if the handbook says “we will pay your PTO balance” the state considers that binding even if state law doesn’t require it).

      Quitting happens, and sometimes it happens at an inconvenient time. Six weeks is a generous notice period for most positions, which should soothe any miffed feelings about giving notice after vacation. I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

    6. mf*

      CA has mandatory payout for PTO.

      And no, I don’t think this is the “wrong” thing to do. PTO is part of your compensation. Not using it before you resign is like saying you’re not allowed to spend your paycheck before you leave your job.

      2. PaidforNapping*

        The writer says they are taking 60% of their 2019 PTO in March, then leaving in six weeks (so gone by May).
        So they may be in a position of taking un-earned PTO.

        1. Hamburke*

          I don’t know if that matters when the OP leaves depending on how the PTO policy is written – does it accrue or is it granted. I’ve worked in places with both systems.

    7. Anon nonprofit worker*

      Not the wrong thing to do, and if you don’t do it you’ll lose your PTO. I think a lot of people do this and sometimes it happens unexpectedly. It also might be your last time for a while to take ten days off, and as a huge promoter of taking time off (because we all work so much) I think you should do it.

      1. TootsNYC*

        I have, when people who work for me have given notice, sat down with them to make a plan for them to take their vacation before their last day, or whether the company will pay it out, and if so how much, etc.

        Many companies I’ve worked for had policies that you have to be IN the office on your last day or half-day of work (I don’t remember how they enforced that), so you can’t give notice and then immediately take 2 weeks of vacation; you’d have to at least come back for the last half day.

    8. AdAgencyChick*

      Yeah, PTO payout/clawback laws vary by state.

      I don’t think it’s wrong to do, but you should figure out ahead of time what the financial hit to you could be, based on your state’s laws and employee handbook, and whether you can afford it. Based on personal experience, once you quit, they will try to recover as much money from you as they can. After all, the bean counters don’t care about keeping you happy to retain you at that point.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        to be clear, I mean a financial hit if your company has a policy that you accrue only a certain amount of PTO per month and taking 60% of your annual allotment in March would cause you to be technically in the red when you quit.

          1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            You may find that you need to reimburse for the “extra” PTO you used. I’d take a look at your employee handbook and any state regulations around vacation time.

          2. Rockhopper*

            You may want to double check that. We also get the full amount on January 1, but if we leave during that year it is subject to prorating. So, say I get 4 weeks per year. If I used two weeks in February (and I am welcome to do so) and left the company on March 31, I would have to pay back one week.

            1. BirthdayWeek*

              Ahh, I see. I will double check then. It won’t impact my plans, but at least I won’t be caught off guard.

            2. blink14*

              This is how it worked at my last job – I was given a prorated amount of vacation payout when I left.

            3. MoopySwarpet*

              This. You should consult your handbook regarding how (and if) they are paid out. I know quite a few states require payout. There should be something in the handbook about how they are actually accrued, though.

              For example, we have a separate bucket for sick pay (that does NOT require pay out by law). You are free to use those days throughout the year (all of them in January if needed), but if you are employed with us at the end of the year, any remaining days are paid out. It is worded such that the actual accrual of the sick pay doesn’t happen until Dec 31st, so you are actually borrowing against your sick days throughout the year. If someone quits or is terminated during the year, we do not make them pay back the sick time, but they haven’t technically earned any to pay out.

              I think with using over half your PTO before the first half of the year, you’ll want to make sure that you know if you’re going to owe the company when you resign.

      2. Aoife*

        One thing I learned from a friend online after the Buzzfeed layoffs is this – that some companies offer “unlimited” PTO to get around the mandatory payout laws in say, California. I always wondered what the benefit to them would be from such a seemingly generous policy…

        1. Bend & Snap*

          It’s because PTO can be a financial liability, especially for companies looking at being acquired or going public.

          I work for a public company with unlimited PTO. It does not suck.

        2. TootsNYC*

          they also discover that their employees often don’t take that vacation. My cousin worked at Best Buy during a time when they had unlimited PTO. (they may still–he just doesn’t work there)

          He was always hassling his subordinates to TAKE VACATION!
          He eventually just told them that his person demand for them was to take two weeks, period, and then incidental days (like, he took a day off to pick me up at the airport once–he’d “harass” his folks into taking a whole day for an errand like that).

          1. TootsNYC*

            My point being, it doesn’t really cost them in terms of productivity, etc., so there’s really very little risk to being that generous.

            I hadn’t known about the accounting/pay-out side of it!

          2. Autumnheart*

            Best Buy never had unlimited PTO. They had ROWE (results-oriented work environment) which allowed people to work wherever they wished, as long as the work was completed on schedule. It ended in 2013. But there’s still flexibility to work from home when it’s necessary (like this week, with the weather).

    9. blink14*

      There are regulations that vary by state about unused PTO. In my state, any earned, unused vacation time must be paid out by law when leaving an employer. Sick time varies by policy – my last company gave me a payout on my sick time, my current employer does not.

    10. irene adler*

      I concur- not an issue.
      In fact, if the company is cash-strapped, they may appreciate you taking as much PTO as you can so that they may pay off a smaller amount of PTO to you.

    11. TheAssistant*

      At my first job, the stars aligned in a way where I took 5 days of vacation, worked two months, took another week of vacation, and left the job two days later. I ended up giving three weeks notice that included my week of approved vacation (it was for a wedding halfway across the world, so everyone understood I couldn’t change the plans). We were in the midst of a huge staff transition and department reorganization. The timing was textbook terrible.

      But because I was a great employee, and because they were good people to work for, it was absolutely fine. My references didn’t suffer and we made everything work the best we could.

      Doing things like documenting your work during the transition and working hard (but not crazy) during your notice period matter so much more than the timing of your vacation.

    12. epi*

      It’s not at all a wrong thing to do, it’s just smart. It would be hard or impossible to get the exact same PTO approved if you gave notice even earlier, even if you know you can wrap things up in the time you have left. Maybe it would inconvenience your employer if you gave two weeks of notice the day you got back or something, but leaving six weeks later is not a big deal in most roles.

      I knew several months ahead of time that I would be leaving my last job for grad school. I got in all my PTO requests first– between a few weddings, summer holidays, and a handful of pre-schedule days just because, I arranged it to have four day weeks my last two months. I still gave them plenty of notice. They didn’t want any of the PTO cancelled.

    14. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      While I agree with the general message you’re getting in these comments, I do think it matters why you’re leaving (and how long you reasonably would have known you were planning to leave).

      So: if you come back from vacation and give notice that you’re starting a new job, that’s no problem. Job offers happen when they happen (and it doesn’t matter that you happen to already know that you’ll be leaving in April or May; your colleagues and boss won’t know that).

      But if you’re leaving for grad school or some other reason that gives away that you’d known you’d be leaving? I do think that changes things and makes it a little uncomfortable to take “extra” PTO right before announcing that you’re leaving. (By “extra” I just mean taking 60% of your annual PTO 25% of the way through the year, knowing that you won’t be there to “earn” the rest of the PTO.)

      1. BirthdayWeek*

        I am leaving because I am moving out of the state. I agree with your sentiment, which is why I was uncomfortable about doing this. My dad is aging and I need to spend some time with him as I only see him once a year. I don’t know if these details really matter – but I did want to express that I’m not going on a ‘vacation’ beach side resort or anything, it’s more for personal family reasons.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I hear ya, and that’s obviously a very good reason for moving (and anyway your reason isn’t really their business)… but I do think it changes things a little bit that you’re leaving on your own schedule (rather than a start date set by a new job).

          I’d review your employee handbook and think back about how it’s worked when other employees left, so you can get really clear about how your org treats PTO. It would be reasonable if they don’t intend staff who leave mid-year to take advantage the full year’s worth of PTO. Ideally, if they’re concerned about that, they would have a policy in place (requiring you to “pay back” PTO); that’s what my previous employer who had this system did.

          1. BirthdayWeek*

            Thank you for weighing in! These are all really good things to consider, and I want to be fair to my organization because it has been a really great place to work. If I have to pay back some time, so be it. I’m more concerned about resentment than money.

    15. Kali*

      Totally fine. My industry has generous sick time that never expires, and people tend to stay for decades here, so we have soon-to-be retirees with literal years of sick time they could take. (I’ve been here 7 years and could take almost 5 straight months off.) But there’s a cap to how much you can get paid out for that accrued time when you retire, so there’s been a history of older workers getting the surgeries they need with all the months of associated recovery time shortly before announcing their retirement. No one gets upset by it, because they *earned* that sick time, just as you earned your vacation time.

    16. Snark*

      Your PTO is compensation. You wouldn’t feel badly about spending money from your last couple of paychecks before leaving the position, would you? Same same.

      People have lives, make plans, and come and go. This is totally normal and totally acceptable, ethically and professionally.

    17. Anoncorporate*

      The way I see it, your PTO is part of your compensation. You have every right to use it, or you lose it (unless your company completely cashes it out, but you still have a right to take time off.)

  2. Foreign Octopus*

    When do I start applying for jobs?

    In October, I’m moving countries and settling in Ireland. At the moment, I’m working as an online ESL teacher so I’ll still have income when I switch countries but I am looking for other jobs (preferably in publishing but also administration work). These will be entry level jobs for graduates that I’m looking for and I don’t know when to start looking. October is set in stone as my move date and I won’t be able to start any earlier than that, so my question is: when do I start applying for jobs?

    2. Amylou*

      Just start looking! Even if the timeline doesn’t work out, writing letters and going through part of the process can be a learning opportunity in itself I always find.

    3. Susan Calvin*

      I’d try to find out what the norms and regulations around notice periods are in Ireland, and go from there – in Germany, for example, 3-6 months are often contractually mandated, so everyone is used to hiring that far in advance. Whatever that timeframe is in Ireland; add some extra for potential bureaucratic hold-ups, and there you go.

    4. PX*

      Tough one. I would look at what the typical notice period is in Ireland (eg I just looked at my contract and was surprised to realise mine is 3 months!) and then give yourself some buffer to actually find a job you like. However given these are entry level jobs where they may expect you to be fresh out of school/working retail with no long notice period etc, maybe budget a bit less?

      But I would certainly say 3-4 months out sounds sensible.

    5. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I’m an American expat in Ireland, and depending on the background check, hiring can take months. I’d agree with six months. However, they may want you there for an in-person interview first. I don’t think there’s any harm in reaching out over the summer though.

        2. MoopySwarpet*

          You move to Ireland? Of course, you have to be American to be an American expat . . . otherwise you’d be a ______ian expat.

          1. Eleanor Shellstrop*

            I think they mean in terms of the legality to work. It can be difficult to get a work visa if you’re not a student or recent grad! Lots of hurdles if you want to earn a paycheck abroad – believe me, I’ve looked :)

            1. Wanderlust*

              Hah, yes indeed that’s what I mean. I wasn’t under the impression I could just buy a ticket to Ireland and claim to live there now :)

      2. Less Bread More Taxes*

        I arrived on a working holiday visa (you had to have graduated within the previous year). I then did my masters degree here and now I’m on another work visa for 2 years. None of this required visa sponsorship. I’m happy to answer more questions via email. Hopefully Alison is okay with me posting it. aryanazcj at gmail.

    6. Eleanor Shellstrop*

      Seconding the 3-6 months comment. I moved to Ireland after graduating college and found that even just looking for entry level retail jobs, the hiring process can be somewhat slow. Plus you’ll have a lot of admin tasks to do once you’re there, like getting your PPS number, opening a bank account (which some companies require you to have before you’re on payroll – when I worked there, my company was direct deposit only, no paper checks). So definitely give yourself more time than you think you need, and more savings than you think you need. Good luck and enjoy!

    7. Sammie*

      It’s happening – I’m so excited for you!

      Looking for a job in Ireland, especially outside the main cities, can still be challenging. There is something of a preference to favour local experience as well. Having said that, administrative positions abound (and I hear our indie publishing sector is thriving, for such a small country) and I recommend checking out recruitment companies (e.g. Osborne) who can help you tailor your CV and match you up with some roles. You might consider getting a contract position (there are a lot of 8 – 12 month maternity-fill positions) so that you can get that local experience, get some income, without having to commit too much.

      In the meantime, work on getting your foot in the door in the publishing industry (if there aren’t open positions you want to already apply for). The smallness of the place can work in your favour – getting your face and your expertise known could be a bit of a simpler process. Also, may I recommend the Irish Writers Center in Dublin for a visit, regardless of your interest in publishing? It is a wonderful excursion!

      There is also the Listowel Writers Week, which I have heard only fantastic things about – from people who don’t even have anything to do with writing! And of course if you are still considering Sligo as a possible place to live, that is Yeats Country, and there is the Yeats Visitors Center in Sligo town (many counties have a principal town by the same name). All of these centers should have information about getting involved in publishing at a local and national level.

      I would certainly start getting your search under way but to work in Ireland you will need a PPS number and an Irish bank account (I believe) and all of that will have to be done when you get there. Yet, I have heard of people being hired before they’ve even moved there – it tends to be more specialized roles, but I wouldn’t nix the idea altogether. The red tape when you get there, just to warn you, can be a pain because you need a proof of address to get a bank account and to get somewhere to live you need a bank account… This is a common problem and people have found ways around it, so I would literally just google it. Also, Citizens Advice are very helpful there.

      Oh and I believe we have a fair few summer schools that teach visiting students English so that might be a consideration for you at some point as well, if you still want to use your ESL skills.

      If you’ve got any particular questions, I’ll check back in later.

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        As ever, Sammie, your advice is wonderful. I’ve bookmarked it to read through in more depth later, but I hadn’t heard of the writers’ festival, or the Irish Writers’ Centre so I’m super excited about that.

        Thanks for your enthusiasm as well! It really helps me feel like I’ve made the right decision as the family is pressuring me to stay in Spain.

        1. Sammie*

          Family will often do that :)

          Ireland is in many ways just one of the best places to visit/live. I have a tricky relationship with it purely because of all that baggage 30-odd years in a once super conservative country will do to an LGBTQ woman. It’s still hard for me to really believe how much it’s changed. But change it has and I’m so glad that you will get to experience it!

      2. Loubelou*

        Writing from Ireland also, Sammie has given great advice!
        However, I think you’ll find (sadly) that admin jobs won’t be willing to hire without an in-person interview. There are just too many good candidates around for employers to be willing to take the risk of hiring based only on Skype interviews. Unless you’re planning on flying over for interviews, which can get expensive.
        I would recommend aiming for an ESL job first, as language schools are far more likely to hire without an in-person interview. Then search for jobs in publishing/admin when you get here.

        It’s verh true that you need a PPS number to work. Make sure you quickly get proof of your new address to get this. About bank accounts, employers will probably be willing to pay into your Spanish account because Ireland uses the EU banking system (IBAN/BIC) so it should be no different, as long as the payroll person knows this.

        I’m assuming you’re moving to Dublin as it’s the only place you’ll have much chance of getting a job, except perhaps Galway. It’s a great place to live, absolutely loads going on. However, do be aware we’re sadly going through a housing crisis, and rents are astronomical. €600-900 for a room in a shared apartment.

        On a completely different note, are you a singer by any chance? I’m in an intercultural choir in Dublin and we’re always looking for new voices! It’s a great way to meet kind, welcoming people as soon as you get here.

        1. Eleanor Shellstrop*

          Hi! Off-topic, just wondering – what Dublin choir are you in? I used to sing with Cuore, wondering if we know people in common :)

        2. Foreign Octopus*

          I am 100% not a singer. I sound like a bag of cats being swung around, though I wish I was a singer as I would love to have joined a choir as a way of meeting people!

          1. Loubelou*

            It is a great way to meet people! But there are loads of intercultural things going on in Dublin so you’re sure to meet people handily enough.
            @Eleanor Shellstrop, it’s Discovery Gospel Choir. I have just looked up Cuore and you guys look great, I don’t think I know anything in it though.

    8. Miss Smilla*

      I’d say looking now, applying around May (3-6 months in advance). Where I’m based, they often include the required/ideal start date, so just looking gives you an idea about the timeline of the average hiring process and how dynamic the market is.

      When I was moving between countries (within CEE), my move date was also October and I started applying around May. I actually got a job by the end of June and they were willing to move the start date for me with a couple of months. (They had two open positions and the other one was filled on time so it made things easier for them. However, I must say that being able to wait so much can be a red flag.)
      Good luck with your search!

    9. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Wouldn’t some of your decision depend on how your portion of Ireland is affected by Breixit?

      1. Foreign Octopus*

        This will be the Republic of Ireland and the Common Travel Agreement between the ROI and the UK predates any agreement with the EU so we’re going to default back to that. The CTA is also the reason that there are no hard borders between England-Scotland, and England-Wales.

    10. Traveling Teacher*

      Since you’re be working as an online (self-employed?) teacher, I’d recommend checking with an accountant about your tax status/filing country for the first year or two!

      In a couple years, I may cross EU internal borders and have a similar headache.

      Also, yes, start looking by March, that’s a very popular hiring time for fall positions in all EU countries I’ve lived in, as you have to account for time delays due to summer holidays.

  3. Doug Judy*

    After a very lengthy job search, including many rejections in the final round, I finally got a job offer yesterday!! Thanks to advice here I was able to get a 6% increase in pay form the original offer, plus an extra week of PTO. It’s not a “dream” job but the company has a solid track record in the community as being a great employer. I am fairly good at reading people, and I felt very comfortable with my new boss and team members. One reason I think it took me so long is that I was very upfront in what I was looking for in my next position and an employer. I know I lost a few positions because long term it wasn’t what I was looking for. I am very glad I didn’t settle.

    There were many times after a rejection that I felt fundamentally unemployable, and the depression from that is real. I even stopped talking to family and friends about how it was going. They were all supportive, but having to tell 10 people every time I got a rejection just made me feel worse. Those of you going through a long search, hang in there! Take breaks when you can, give yourself time to grieve a bit after a rejection, do something fun, then get back out there!

    3. Anon nonprofit worker*

      Congrats on the job and the pay negotiation! I had an eight-month job search a couple of years ago and it was really rough. It was eight months after I finished graduate school so it had been a while since I had had a FT job. It was definitely a stressful time that was quite isolating. I’m glad you are done with it and did your due diligence to find a good place that works for you.

    4. General Ginger*

      Congratulations!

      Your 2nd paragraph is exceptionally relatable/something I’m going through right now. I’m very glad for you, and also feeling a bit more hopeful for myself!

    10. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Congratulations and thank you for paying it forward by sharing the encouragement with all of us!!! You persevered and every word from those who reached the other shore, helps those struggling to wade through the muck to get there….

    11. StellaBella*

      Congratulations, this is great news! And well done on not settling.

      Thanks, too for the encouragement, I have been looking since October and have been lucky to land 4 interviews. In process with 2 firms still, but have had close to 100 rejections so far.

    13. 653-CXK*

      Congratulations on getting the job, Doug Judy!

      It’ll be nine months for me, but I have an interview next week with a local company. We had a very lengthy phone interview (I don’t know if that’s a good sign or not) but hopefully it will bear fruit.

      I don’t look at rejections as something to be depressed about – I learn from them. I had maybe one or two that I really felt that a potential employer and I clicked, but then it turned out I had everything but that tiny thing they were looking for, and I felt bad I didn’t get it. Another involved talking to a recruiter and having to hear that the manager rejected me and three other people, but never gave a reason. On the other hand, there was one rejection that I felt was due to not being a good culture fit, and the amount of icy reception cemented that.

      I second Doug Judy’s plan on the search. Take an hour or two a day of You time, get out of the house, get a good lunch/dinner, then get back into the groove later on.

    14. pugs for all*

      Congratulations and thank you for your words of encouragement. It is easy (for me at least) to get down sometimes after so may number of months of applying and not getting anywhere. Though I did make a vow to myself not to settle this time around so your words really resonated with me.

      1. Doug Judy*

        Absolutely do not settle! Long story short but my last two positions were definitely settling and not surprisingly I was only at each a little over a year. This time I refused to settle for something I wasn’t excited about.

        Hang in there. It will happen.

  4. Anon nonprofit worker*

    Hi all. I recently took a temporary promotion that is supposed to become a permanent promotion very soon. (It’s not an option to go back to my previous position) With the increased work and responsibilities I had expected the pay raise to be about $10K but it ended up only being a few thousand because “that’s where I fell on the salary band”. I was very surprised disappointed by this. Well it’s been a few months with the new work and it’s a lot more work than I expected and previous promises of support have not materialized, so I want to address the salary again with my boss today but I’m terrified.

    Can anyone give me words of wisdom or a script? OR tell me about when you negotiated and it worked for you?

    1. Wendie*

      Salary bands are so hard. I know a few Union people who could talk the ear off a donkey about salary bands. Unfortunately sometimes the cost of fairness for some can be unfairness for others. I would ask if everyone with your position are in that salary band, sometimes people can be surprised and not connect the dots that it’s not being divvied up right.

      1. Anon nonprofit worker*

        What’s tricky with my role is that I’m the only person in my position and who does my set of work at our org so my salary band was lumped in with a group of other people that I work with but none of them do my specific kind of work. And I didn’t even know the salary band until the last minute, its sort of secretive at my org which is really unfortunate.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Hmm, I wonder if there’s an opportunity to renegotiate when the job becomes permanent. Did you already accept an offer at a certain amount? It’s harder to negotiate after that, since you’ve indicated that you’re willing to work for that salary. After you’ve accepted, I’d say your next best opportunity to ask for more would be after a successful year of doing the job, or when they start adding a new responsibilities that you can leverage into a promotion. Or, if you know you can’t continue working at that wage, I suppose you can have a come-to-Jesus conversation because you have nothing to lose if you’re planning to quit anyway.

      1. Anon nonprofit worker*

        I’m wondering the same thing too, I have a feeling that they were not planning on having a second negotiation which is why I wanted to bring it up to them beforehand. Unless I say something to the hire-ups about the increased work and lack of support, they’d never ask and just assume it was all good. When I was first shown the salary band there was not really any area to argue, but I was hoping that since I’ve done the work for a few months now I could say that from my current experience in the rule, the workload is heavier than predicted and I’d like to revisit salary? But I’m also don’t have a great track record for negotiating and its making me more nervous now.

        1. Marthooh*

          Maybe identify a job or group of jobs in a higher salary band and argue that your position is more like that and deserves the higher pay?

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      “When I accepted this promotion, I was told I would be given additional support to offset the increased workload. The support has not materialized, and my workload has [doubled/tripled/whatever]. I am fine with continuing with this workload if we can revisit my salary and adjust it to reflect the amount of work I’ve taken on in this new role.”

    4. Been there*

      Your question goes beyond this specific situation, and the answer has to take a longer-range look at your career goals. The truth I learned about this is that you will seldom seem as valuable to your current employer as you would to your next employer. Organizations tend to take for granted people like you and me who work our way up; they’re convinced that applicants from outside have to be paid more.

      I have two suggestions I hope will be helpful: (1) Do a “deep think” about what you want from your life and work; how important is salary? You can ask for more PTO, or an assistant, or training, or any number of other things even if the answer on the money is no. (2) If you decide to settle for less this time, start looking elsewhere right away; I would start with a government or unionized job, because their pay policies are generally less secretive.

      I hope this is helpful — Good Luck!

      1. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

        +1000 to the first paragraph, and an addition: sometimes the best way to get a raise is to get an outside offer. But only do this if you would leave; don’t use it as a bluff, even though it may well work to get your salary to a reasonable level for the work.

  5. Murphy*

    I’ve looked through AAM on this, but I’d appreciate some thoughts from the commentariat. I work at a university and am and considering applying for internal positions. I’m stumped with who to use for professional references. My employer always asks for three references, up front (annoying, I know).

    I’ve been at my job 3 years. Original manager retired, so she’s one reference. Before that, I was at Job A for 2.5 years. That job isn’t relevant to what I do now, but that manager is my 2nd reference. Here’s where things get messy. I started at that job part time, so for a while I worked 2 part time jobs at Job A and Job B (which were both nonprofits, so before that I was actually volunteering at both places, and continued to volunteer for Job B after I started working for Job A full time). Before that I was unemployed because I was fired from a job I held for a short period of time (which will not be going on my resume at all). Before that, I dropped out of a PhD program. I have a master’s and I held TA positions while in school.

    Current manager is out. I’m a team of one, so I don’t think there’s anyone else who could truly speak to my work. Job B mentioned above also isn’t relevant to what I do now, the nonprofit folded, and I’m not in touch with the manager. I think she’d be willing to be a reference, but she’s flaky, so I don’t think she’d be the best. I think using a grad school professor would be going back too far, and it’s not the same. I know it’s hard without specifics, but does anyone have any suggestions for someone I may not have considered?

    1. Rey*

      Is there someone that you work with frequently in your current position, who isn’t your current manager? For example, I am a committee secretary, and my committee chair agreed to be a reference when I needed three letters.

      1. Murphy*

        Hmm…I used to provide administrative assistance to a committee, so the former chair might not be a terrible choice. I’ll have to think on that. Thanks!

      2. University Minion*

        +1 to this idea.
        I’ve served as a reference for several people I’ve worked with in academic departments who have worked closely with me (I’m in a fairly centralized admin role).

    2. Hailrobonia*

      Is there anyone with a in a different office or department at your university whom you’ve worked closely with who has a parallel or higher position? When I was applying for an internal job at the university I work at, I got stumped about who to use as references as well. I had my current supervisor (who was very supportive) and previous supervisor (who had left for a different department and was also a great reference), but the job asked for three references and I was stumped.

      I finally reached out to someone who was the administrative officer in a department that was closely aligned with the one I was currently at. Our two departments had frequent interactions, because there were many faculty who had appointments in both, etc. She turned out to be a great resource as she said she could attest to my ability to coordinate scheduling meetings with multiple “challenging” personalities (you know how faculty can be), as well as my attention to detail etc.

      1. Murphy*

        Unfortunately, I don’t really work closely with anyone! My boss keeps me pretty well isolated (which is the big reason I want to change jobs).

        99% of my work interactions with anyone other than my boss are by email. Is that enough?

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Yes!! I’ve met most of the people at my client’s office face-to-face once or twice, but 99.9% of our interactions are via email because our offices are miles apart. I’ve had people who have only met me F2F briefly once or twice send unsolicited rave/thank you emails because of the support I’ve provided. I know approaching someone to ask is the hardest part, but it’s very possible that people who you only work with over email know your work very well. (In fact, who knows, they could be more objective than your boss!)

            1. Hailrobonia*

              When I asked my third person if she could be my reference, I did add a little context, something like “my boss and previous boss are providing references, and thought it would be great to have someone like you from outside my department who could give perspective on my communication and organization style.”

    3. blink14*

      I’m also at a university, and it seems common to use references from outside your department. Is there someone you interact with on work related items on a consistent basis? For me, I would think of other administrators or someone in a related department that I assist on certain projects. These are people I have work experience with and can comment on things like being on time, effort level, work quality, etc.

      1. Murphy*

        There’s maybe one or two of those, but I don’t know that I’d say we worked together closely. And our interactions would mostly be email.

    4. CG*

      Do you have any senior colleagues in your current position? That’s what I did for my current role, with the bonus that they were actually better qualified to speak to my work quality/demeanor than my manager because they worked with me, and they were less likely to be unhappy with me if I found a new gig. Also: if 3 references are required and you’ve had some unrelated-field jobs, hiring managers will understand if not all of your references are for 100% pertinent jobs, so if there is someone from Job A or B who makes sense, I think you’re just fine to go with them. You already have a manager from your current position as a reference, which is pretty huge!

    5. Indie*

      What do they want for the third? Someone to just confirm job dates ? General character reference? Direct managers only or will peers, or possibly someone slightly senior do? Expecting three recent ‘I can speak to her recent job performance’ references is expecting a bit much. When I was in a reference bind recently I asked them to speak to my traning mentor.

    6. Admin by Day Roller Derby by Night*

      Moving from one college to another, I was luckily able to use a person who had been the lead on a VP Search Committee that I had staffed. But I had kept up the relationship with him after the search because of circumstances, so he was something of a mentor by that point. Anyone like that you could use?

    7. CAA*

      Is there anyone who was formerly higher up in your reporting chain that you could use? I.e. not your current grand-boss but a former grand-boss?

      1. Murphy*

        Too high up to have actually worked with me, and not someone I would trust not to tell my boss that I was looking. (Him finding out wouldn’t be the worst thing ever, but I would like to avoid it if possible.)

    8. OhGee*

      I finished grad school in 2011 and used a reference from my time there for my current job (hire date: October 2018). It’s a good reference: my ref was both a prof and my TA supervisor, and has since moved from head of the department to head of the division under which that department falls – this is someone with a prestigious role who can speak to my professional qualities and character, and they’ve been kind enough to be willing to be a reference. References from ~8-10 years ago are fine if they’re relevant in some way.

      1. OhGee*

        Oh, and my grad program was in theater and I now work in fundraising — your area of study doesn’t have to relate to the job to be useful!

    9. Existentialista*

      You could reach out to a client or customer, or the equivalent. Who receives the benefit of your current work – maybe a student, faculty, department staff?

    10. So long and thanks for all the fish*

      Could you ask your old PI, even if you dropped out? Or old TA supervisors?

    11. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Did your nonprofit support any outside organizations where you came to know someone in particular? A positive client/customer reference would seem logical to me.

    13. R*

      You’re giving them two managers, so the third can be a peer. I have been a reference for a few of my peers, and the person who called me never remarked on it being odd.

  6. sad and concerned*

    My close relative who has had some mental health issues may have lost his job . This is his first job after college and he seemed to be doing really well up until a few months ago. He said he was frustrated because his medications were making him slow, he was annoyed about needing to take time off from work for doctor’s appointments and his doctor was not listening to his concerns so I suggested he see a new doctor. He stopped taking his medications and started seeing a new doctor. At first I noticed a good change; he seemed friendlier and more confident so i began to think he didn’t need his meds. He interviewed for better paying jobs both externally and internally and he was offered a transfer to a new department at his company. I’m not sure when it really started happening but at some point things got strange and he began to get really paranoid. At first, it was just things like people at work were jealous of him for getting a better job. Then he would call me constantly ask me why his boss/coworkers were asking him to do certain tasks. Then he said he could no longer stay at his company and declined the new job. I didn’t realize something was seriously wrong until he said they were talking about him on the news and he needed to leave the world. I was able to convince him to go to the hospital. When we got to the ER, he was upset about missing work and asked me to email his boss. I sent an email saying relative had an emergency and was in the ER and would probably need the rest of the week off. I really thought he’d be better by the next week once they adjusted his meds. The boss emailed back and said they were sorry to hear that and not worry about work. Hospital didn’t think hospitalization was necessary since he was able to pull himself together really quickly. They referred him to outpatient care. Outpatient doctor suggested he complete paperwork for FMLA while they work to find a solution but I think he refused. He returned to work and Boss emailed me a few days later saying they were concerned since he has not been himself and asked relative to bring doctors note before returning to work. At this point, He was really angry with me, refused to see his doctor so I can only imagine what his behavior at work must have been like. It’s been about a month now and I feel terrible. I’m assuming he may have lost his job, if he hasn’t I don’t know if it’s a good idea to return to work. I think the manager may know about my relative’s disability but as far as coworkers, I’m not sure. Relative is now hospitalized and I’m guessing they’ll be out within a week. He now seems stable when I talk to him but it’s difficult to have a conversation of any substance with him. He calls to say hello and asks the same questions each time.
    When he is able to function normally again, is there any advice on how to navigate this?
    And I’m sure people at his work must be going WTF. I know it would be out of line to email boss but in this situation is it better to just let relative to hoprfully handle when he can?

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Oh God, my heart sank and saw the landslide coming when you said he stopped taking his meds. He will always need medication, please remember that for the future. That’s common issue for many mental illnesses, the meds work and they think they’re curred and don’t need them any longer…then the meds wear off and you’re back to an untreated illness :(

      Let him get stabilised and he can handle dealing with if he wants to return if he can or even wants to salvage his relationship with his boss.

      1. Doug Judy*

        This. My brother has bipolar 1 with psychosis, and it was an endless cycle of going off his meds, being hospitalized, stable for a bit, repeat. Sometimes he would go voluntarily to the hospital, but I did on on occasion have to have in involuntarily committed. It was the worst week of my life. 5 years ago, we had a very dangerous situation with him when he was off his medication. After that instance, we were able to get him on an injectible anti-psychotic, but we had to fight for nearly 10 years to get to that point. It really is used as a last resort. Even properly medicated, long term employment is a challenge for him. The medication make him stable, but he gets disproportionately stressed out by minor things, so he usually ends up quitting after a year or so.

        I am glad you are trying to help, and people like your relative and my brother need family support. My brother is so fortunate to have my parents, who are able to financially support him, so working full time isn’t something he needs to do. But it is hard on them, and me. Add in mental health care is not what it needs to be, it is an uphill battle. All my support, hang in there.

      2. Headshrinker Extraordinaire*

        Seconding this comment. I used to work in a hospital and it was so sad to see the same people come back time and time again, because they’d decide they didn’t need medication once they felt better. It usually took 3 hospitalizations for the “I really need to stay on my meds” idea to click, if it was ever going to.

        I would recommend waiting awhile before discussing work. If relative is having trouble communicating clearly and asking the same question over and over they need more time to get stable before making a decision about work. When he is stable you might consider having relative discuss work with his doctor and other care team members, in case there are any changes they can recommend.

      4. Pommette!*

        It’s not just that people whose medication works well think that they are cured. It’s also that a lot of medications doesn’t actually work that well, or work well enough but has serious side effects. Hope – that you might be able to think clearly and quickly, that you might not have to feel nauseated and tired every day for the rest of your life, that you might be able to act lively and charming and make friends as easily as you remember once being able to, that you might feel like yourself again… – dies hard.

        Which isn’t to minimize how hard it is to watch someone you care about stop treatment that you know they need, or how hard it is to have to care for someone who is struggling.

      5. Snowcat*

        Gosh this is some dangerous misinformation. Not everyone finds medication helpful and plenty of people – including those who do find it helpful – come off it successfully.

        1. J*

          It’s definitely true that some people can successfully discontinue meds, but a lot of people with certain disorders (like schizophrenia) do meed medication for life. And regardless, the person should always taper off under the careful guidance of a qualified professional rather than deciding all on their own to abruptly stop.

    2. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

      I don’t think it would be out of line to check in with his boss, given that boss has reached out to you twice already to check in, and your relative is hospitalized.
      I’m sorry this is happening, and I hope your relative can find stability soon.

    3. A person*

      I don’t think you’re out of line to communicate your relative currently is in the hospital but anything further than that (like guesses to when he might be out and/or returning to work) when your relative has not asked you to be a go-between may get you way more involved than your relative wants you to be in this situation.

      I hope his new care team can get him the treatment he needs to get back on track.

    4. Myrin*

      I’m so sorry – that sounds incredibly stressful and upsetting. I don’t have any advice but wanted to let you know that I think you’ve been behaving really admirably and awesomely helpfully during this whole ordeal!

    5. Misha*

      So sorry you’re dealing with this and please remember to seek support or care for yourself too.

      I think you know your relative/the situation best, but I think it could be helpful to limit focus to relative’s well-being and recovery for the time being. When you talk to him, ask what is challenging him right now, what would be helpful for him (from you or outside of what you can offer). Don’t ask how work is, what he wants to do about work. Just focus on the overall well-being and listen as much as possible. Encourage him to keep getting support, say things like “your well-being is really important to me. This is a priority.” If he tries to talk about work, reiterate that “I know work is important to you. Let’s focus on what you’re dealing with right now and work can come next.” Are you the only relative? Is there someone else able to speak with his doctor, or is that something you can do? It would be ideal to have clarity from his medical team about how they perceive his ability to return to work and recovery needs (I’m not in the US, so I’m not sure about legality and privacy in this context). It’s reasonable to think about what his coworkers/boss might be thinking, but there are 2 important points here:
      1) what they think is simply not as high a priority as keeping him safe.
      2) treating this like a “WTF” situation, rather than a difficult, uncomfortable, but COMMON experience perpetuates the idea that mental illness is bad, wrong, embarrassing, weak, etc. I know it’s a bit of a cliche, but try to re-imagine the situation as if he had a sudden physical health issue (a broken leg, a fever). Imagine how you would want his workplace to handle that situation. Then proceed as if that is the case.

      You say when he is able to function normally again – that might not happen for some time. Or frankly, it might not happen. You said this is his first job after college, so I’m assuming he might be in his 20’s, which is a VERY common age for mental illness and psychosis to present. This might be normal for a while and it is an incredible amount for you to carry – your care and concern for this person shines through and please remember you need to be cared for too.

      I’m not sure if any of that helps, but I hope things get better for him and wishing you all the best.

      1. Pommette!*

        This is such a great comment – thoughtful and helpful.
        Learning to work with an illness that affects your, or your loved one’s sense of self and sense of reality is really difficult, and can take time. Please be kind to yourself, and don’t be afraid to get any support you can, as you support your nephew.
        Best wishes for you, OP, and for your nephew.

    6. Grits McGee*

      S&C, if you’re in the US are you familiar with NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness)? They have a hotline that you can call to speak to someone who can talk you through all of this, and figure out what the best next steps might be.

      2. Ada*

        +1 for NAMI. I’m also dealing with a loved one with mental illness. They have classes both for those with mental illness and for their families. I took their Family-to-Family class last year and it had a ton of useful info on how to cope with just about every aspect of this. If not for them, we would have had no idea there’s a local vocational rehab service in my area that helps match people with physical disabilities, mental illness, etc. to appropriate jobs, and helps them navigate the working world with their conditions. My loved one is actually going to start reaching out to this service today, in fact.

    7. Temperance*

      Your relative needs to handle this on his own. Regardless of the situation, outside of an emergency, a family member shouldn’t be reaching out to someone’s manager to mitigate the situation.

      I think it probably also depends heavily on the nature of your relative’s mental illness. If he has an illness that causes him to behave erratically when unmedicated, which it sounds like he may, it might be best for him to focus on getting his medication sorted before looking for a new job.

    8. ag47*

      A really similar thing happened to my brother. He has a history of mental illness and was working his first job out of college when he had a prolonged episode of paranoia. He thought his work was following him, stalking his email, etc. He quit the job without notice (after about 9 months there) because he thought his boss was following him home. We finally go him help. He eventually reached out to his old job, explained what had happened, and that he had received treatment–they agreed to give him a positive reference based on the work he had done (which was really good, before he went off the rails) and not mention the psychotic break in a reference check. He did wait, though, until he was able to handle the calls to his old job himself, even though it took several months after the original breakdown until he was able to do that.

      It took almost a year for him to find a job after that, which honestly may have been for the best since it gave him a lot of time to get himself stable. He temped and volunteered to have something on his resume. Almost two years ago, he started a job at a large company and he’s been doing great–he’s hitting his targets every quarter, has been promoted multiple times, and is much more stable overall.

      I feel for you. This is such a hard situation and it’s so difficult to try and help someone through it. In my experience, the only thing I could really do was provide as much encouragement and support as possible to my brother–but he had to be the one to see a therapist, take his meds, and (eventually) reach out to OldJob. We (his family) didn’t reach out to OldJob before he was ready, in part because his mental health issues were his to share. But I also think that coming back to the job after-the-fact, when the episode was over, made it easier for OldJob to frame it and give a positive reference. It wasn’t, “Oh we have an ex-employee with ongoing mental health issues that we may have to deal with,” but “We had an employee who had a serious health issue that is now resolved, and of course we’ll give a good reference.”

      I wish you and your relative the best, and hope it works out in the end. I’m so sorry you both are going through this.

    9. DaffyDuck*

      Just another repeat to the meds cause side effects/go off meds/OK for a bit then crash and burn is a very common scenario for people with mental illness. It is very, very important for them to stay on their meds despite feeling slow, etc. This scenario is often repeated multiple times.
      Concentrate on getting normal functioning back (he will probably be released from the hospital before this point if you are in the USA). FMLA paperwork is a good idea, I would gently encourage but pushing too hard can cause resistance. Let him deal with the job once stable.

    10. WellRed*

      I think you are kind to want to help, and you can still offer support, but I think you need to step waaay back for your own health. Also, I think you kind of got in over your head (it sounds like you didn’t realize going off meds is a big NO–not that you can make your relative take them if he doesn’t want to, of course). Step back, let the pros handle getting him stable. Forget about the job stuff.

    11. Argh!*

      Boss & doctor can’t tell you any personal details, but you’re under no obligation to keep the details a secret. You can tell the doctor about work issues & you can tell the boss that your relative really needs to go on FML or whatever.

      My relative with a severe mental illness refused to even try medication, got fired from his job, and is now homeless. Trying to help someone with a mental illness is like trying to help someone with cancer — there is only so much you can do. Take care of yourself and don’t let yourself think it’s possible to be a superhero in this situation. It’s not.

      Good luck with this.

  7. Tigger*

    Hi guys! I am a mid 20’s female working in a male-dominated field. I sound a bit young on the phone but I dress older for my age and keep everything professional. Recently I noticed that older men in my field address me as my dear, sweetheart, darling etc. Is this a common part of doing business? It feels really gross to me.

    3. MuseumChick*

      I am tangentially in a male dominated field. I work in a museum with a collection focused on a topic that is traditionally associated with men. Think something like vintage cars. I’ve noticed that many of our visitors/donor/other associated with the museum, who are almost exclusively men, will call me things like that. The way I deal with it is by thinking of it as another culture that I am just starting to learn about. As long as they do not push it beyond these annoying “terms of endearment”.

      You could try, in the moment sating something like, “Oh, I actually really don’t like being call pet names. Tigger or Tig is fine.”

    5. Shark Whisperer*

      EWWWW. I don’t know if it’s common or not, but it’s definitely not acceptable in my book. I would shut that down if you feel comfortable doing so. I think you can cheerfully say, “Oh don’t call me dear. I am your coworker not your granddaughter.”

    6. Parenthetically*

      Ew no it is NOT, it IS gross, you absolutely can respond, “It’s Tigger, actually.” You can also have a separate conversation with people you see frequently, and say something like, “Hey Bob, I’ve noticed you sometimes call me dear or sweetheart, and I know you mean it kindly, and I appreciate it, but I’m really trying to build my professional reputation, and I think pet names can undermine that. I’d appreciate it if we just stuck with names. Thanks for understanding!”

        1. Parenthetically*

          Yeah, do what you want. I included it because it seems Tigger is dealing with clients/outside folks which necessitates more softening language unfortunately.

          1. OhNo*

            “I appreciate the sentiment” might be a decent alternative phrase. It acknowledges the intent without okaying the language used, which is a line you’ll probably want to draw in order to preserve the relationships.

            1. Blue Eagle*

              How about “hey, my grandfather always calls me that, you remind me of my grandfather”. I used to do that and it would shut them right down because what man wants to be thought of as old as a grandfather.

          2. Delphine*

            I think “I know you mean it kindly” probably softens the statement enough. “I appreciate it” means that she enjoys being called pet names and these men might see it as an invitation to continue to call her “sweetheart” when it’s just them and OP in a room.

    7. General Ginger*

      Nope, not normal. Gross.

      FWIW I know (professionally) a grand total of one person who addresses everyone younger, regardless of gender, as “my dear”. She’s close to retirement age & from the South. I still find it weird, but at least with her I know it’s not meant to be gross at all.

      1. EggEgg*

        This made me realize I occasionally call my coworkers “my dear,” even though I’m (pretty significantly) the youngest in the office. Interestingly, I only use that for the folks I did direct service with, even though I’ve moved over to a tech role now. None of them bat an eye at it–nonprofits are weird :)

    8. Coffee Bean*

      I think it is normal Tigger – I am in the same boat as you. “Sweetheart” is the favorite around here.

      When I get called “sweetheart”, “darling” etc. I give them a very perplexed look and just say “Sweetheart?” That tends to make them stop for a second and realize that work isn’t the place for those names.

      I’ll be following this post, because curious to see if anyone else has any suggestions!

      1. Coffee Bean*

        And for clarification. Normal in the sense it happens, not normal because it is gross and annoying

      2. ANon.*

        Alternative: call them different terms of endearments, getting increasingly more intimate/ridiculous until they say something/stop (“dear,” “hun,” “sweetie-pie,” “pumpkin,” “pookie”).

        3. Not Me*

          This is more likely to make them think you like it than to make them stop. They are being overly familiar, returning the favor won’t help.

        4. Steve*

          I know someone who dealt with “Dear” by offering to return the favour with “Moose” (a play on dear / deer). It was done privately, but apparently the old guy complained to their mutual boss because suddenly the boss was calling him Moose and “dear” had disappeared from the workplace.

    9. Handwavy Things with Databases*

      Hello! Mid-thirties woman in an IT-adjacent field here. It is both gross and in my experience semi-common. We are thankfully in a cultural moment where people should not be surprised by (firm, polite) pushback, however. Depending on relative seniority, how closely I work with someone, and how well-meaning I judge them to be, I’ve had success with everything from, “Ew, not your sweetheart” to “Please don’t call me ‘darling’, thanks” to “Please call me [name], thanks,” to “Hey, I don’t know if you realize this, but you often call me [and other young women] pet names. I’m sure you don’t mean it this way, but it feels demeaning and makes you look out of touch with today’s business norms”.

      1. Working with professionals*

        I found a rapid double take with raised eyebrows and a longish pause usually put an end to it.

    10. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Yeah, in the male dominated areas, the Good Ol’ Boys still exist. I don’t mind it, I’ve never been undermined by the men who use those endearments but those with sexist geared nature aren’t always malicious either.

      You can certainly tell them you prefer they not use that language towards you if it’s grossing you out.

    11. ISuckAtUserNames*

      No, it’s not normal. It’s condescending and sexist.

      I hope others have advice on what to do about it, as it’s not something I’ve encountered and I’m not sure how to address it constructively or whether it’s even worth it, depending on how often you have to deal with them.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Raised eyebrows and “it’s [my name], not [hon / dear / sweetheart] ” or jokingly, “oh, don’t call me [hon / dear / sweetheart], because [your wife / my boyfriend / EEOC] would really not like that.”

        1. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

          I can’t help but hear the line from Tootsie in my head:

          Ron Carlisle : Take, Tootsie.
          Dorothy Michaels : Ron? I have a name, it’s Dorothy. It’s not Tootsie or Toots or Sweetie or Honey or Doll.
          Ron Carlisle : Oh, Christ.
          Dorothy Michaels : No, just Dorothy. Alan’s always Alan, Tom’s always Tom and John’s always John. I have a name too. It’s Dorothy, capital D-O-R-O-T-H-Y.

          For a movie that didn’t really succeed at being at all feminist, I still love this line.

    12. K. A.*

      It’s perfectly acceptable to privately ask him to address you by your name instead of a term of endearment that is reserved for more intimate relationships (like family). If he asks why, just say in a matter-of-fact way that it makes you uncomfortable. Then repeat your request.

      If he pushes back or acts like he doesn’t understand, just calmly keep stating it. I’ve found that works for me.

    13. LilySparrow*

      Very common, unfortunately. Does not mean you have to accept it.

      Depending on your personality and relationship with the people doing it, I’ve had success with two different approaches:

      The direct and simple, “I’ts Tigger, actually.” or “Please call me Tigger.” or “Please don’t call me Sweetheart.” are one way. They work on reasonable people who are not invested in deliberately being jerks. But if it is an ingrained habit that is culturally the norm where you live, and other women they interact with professionally accept it, you may have to repeat this several times before they remember. And people who are deliberately trying to annoy or undermine you will pretend they don’t remember forever.

      The more oblique — and somewhat more aggressive — way is to reply with an even sillier endearment, like “sweet cheeks” or “honeybun” or “snookums'”. If the person is mostly kind and professional, you’re relying on their sense of humor here. If not, well, I have never had anyone, even royal jerks, push past that one.

    14. Human Embodiment of the 100 Emoji*

      I haaaaaate when men do this. I don’t remember if it was here or elsewhere, but there was a commenter somewhere who was a younger woman working at a loading dock, and responded to this exact same problem by calling the offending men “champ” or “sport” until they knocked it off.

    15. Sunny*

      I know it’s difficult to train yourself to do this (and for sure I couldn’t do it at your age), but try to get comfortable with speaking up for yourself. It will help you in so many ways, in so many situations. Be direct, look them in the eye, state things simply, don’t apologize or say “I know you mean well” because THEY DO NOT.

    16. Environmental Compliance*

      I had/have that a lot. You can usually tell by tone how they mean it, which then translates into what my response is.

      If it’s really meant harmlessly enough, as in they don’t necessarily understand why that’s icky, I start by ignoring it and if it’s a consistent thing, I very breezily ask them to stop, as that’s a nickname only my husband gets to use. I had good success with that.

      If it’s meant in an obviously sleazy way, I’m usually quite a bit more abrupt with it. There was one guy using “sweetheart” to mock me, and I flat out told him that I’m not his sweetheart, and what he can refer to me by is my name, and my name only, else he can feel free to find out how not sweet I am. He (as a contractor trying to bully me into issuing a permit for shoddy work) really didn’t expect me to stand my ground or call him out on his BS.

      To be clear – I don’t think it’s okay either way, but I think there’s different ways to handle based on what the terms are actually being used for.

      1. MattKnifeNinja*

        I’m 54 and still get honey/sweet heart/dear/hon.

        It’s common where I live. When you call them on it, THEY get really pissy and offended.

    18. CheeryO*

      Common in my experience, but worth pushing back on. Unfortunately, the people who are most likely to pull that crap are also the least likely to respect your boundaries, so it’s an uphill battle.

    19. KR*

      It’s gross and common. I usually go with either a) say “Oh it’s actually Tigger. Thanks.” b) ignore it but be *all business* on the phone until they start treating you like a person and not their daughter/relative

      Sincerely, another young face in an industry traditionally male

    20. Another Librarian*

      Super annoying and super common, also dependent on the region. When I moved to the Deep South I had to get used to everyone (regardless of gender) referring to me as honey, sweetie, dear or darling. Mild upside, is that it seems to be more gender neutral. Especially from older women who often seem to call everyone “honey”. It’s fascinating. I digress.

      Having said that, I would decide how much political capital you want to spend. It might be worth just rolling your eyes internally and letting it go if it’s not someone you deal with everyday.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Another wrinkle for your fascination: my team lead is a mature US Southern Traditional white woman. She calls everyone under her ‘hon’ (male or female), but not her equals or bosses. They are *always* [First Name]. My experience has been this is common for US Southern Traditional white women; non-white US Southern women are more likely to call *everyone* honey / hon, no matter what the potential relationship power differentials may be.

        My team lead’s use is totally condescending and pretty annoying, as are the other ‘forced teaming’ gestures, but I operate fairly independently so I can mostly shrug it off. I hate when I get sucked into the forced teaming stuff tho. Haven’t quite figured out how to do the ‘neutral non-comment without being offensively abrupt’ when she’s dishing on the latest thing that exec whom she knows I don’t like has done.

    21. Surprising common*

      I’m a mid 30s female that’s been in construction for 12 years. I’m in the office with a few other women but my 50 person team is all men and 90% of my vendors, customers, and subcontractors are men. It’s extremely common. Some do it out of habit and others because they’re sexist. A polite request usually works on the first group, the second group are more difficult to change. It’s a constant battle.

    22. Jule*

      It is common, though it is bad. People should know by this point that it’s bad, but honestly…some of these people ARE doing this with full knowledge that most women don’t like it, and they’re ready to rant and hold grudges if they get called on it. Be careful out there.

    23. Lluviata*

      There are lots of great replies here on what you can say to stop it, and I’d like to add what it looks like AFTER you’ve said something. What used to hold me back was wondering if it was “worth it,” so maybe this’ll be helpful to you too.

      In my case, he called me something like “buddy.” I had a normal conversation with him, then ended up telling him to call me by my name. Afterwards, he was a little more cautious and less casual when we would talk to me. And I REALLY liked it! It put me at ease, because he was less likely to say something condescending or unprofessional to me. And I felt like a peer, where before I usually felt like a “junior” (and I wasn’t). I plan on speaking up more often now, based on how well it went.

    24. Ada*

      I feel you so much right now. I’ve always looked waaaaay young for my age no matter how I dress or carry myself, which is probably why the guy running the business next to ours refers to me as “young lady.” I’m in my thirties.

    26. Applesauced*

      I hear you! I am a young-looking architect (yes, licensed and all!) who frequently goes to construction sites. 90% of the time contractors (who have been 100% male) are fine, but I chewed the ear off the guy who tried to give me the pink hardhat.

      1. wittyrepartee*

        Do YOU want a pink helmet? Why not? So why did you assume that I’d want one? Oh… I see…

    27. Adminx2*

      NO and feel free to correct them on the spot “Oh my name is Sally” plus relaxed smile.
      99% of them will smarten up, the other 1% will feel entitled to keep being “old fashioned” and you’ll have to pick and choose what authority and capital you want to spend on correcting further.

    28. Hamburke*

      I hate this and just plain old don’t respond and play it off as “I didn’t know you were talking to me b/c my name isn’t ‘Darling’ and we don’t have that kind of personal relationship to use lovey-dovey names”.

    29. J*

      Yeah, this is super gross, and you can 100 oercent ask them politely but not very firmly not to do that. If they don’t stop right away, insist, and feel free to become increasingly stern with repeat reminders.

    30. Close Bracket*

      You have to judge who you can say this to without blow back, but I did once respond to something like this with, “Sure thing, darlin’.” The recipient did a slight double take and acknowledged that he shouldn’t call people sweetheart. It won’t work with everyone, that’s for sure, and you have to be careful about your delivery. Pointed deadpan worked for me.

    31. Namey McNameface*

      My friend had the same experience. She said she would respond using the same endearment, like “you’re welcome sweetheart” “no problem hun” “I’ll get those files for you now, darling.” Apparently that put it end to it quickly.

      It’s sexist and patronising. Even if you’re working with someone much, much younger there’s no place for endearments like that in the workplace.

    32. A Rare Bird*

      Everyone saying it’s not normal… Is wrong. I work in engineering and construction, I’m 26 and female, and it’s a constant battle with middle aged men.

      They don’t think they’re doing anything wrong, so can get really defensive when you call them on it, but what worked for me was being really blunt when it happened, and moving on immediately. “Don’t call me darling”, move on. If they start a debate, refuse to engage and reiterate that it’s unprofessional or condescending or sexist or whatever works for your situation, and then move on. Try not to be emotive or dragged into a fight; just an absolute non-negotiable “stop that” and continue with your business.

      YMMV depending on how naturally confrontational you are, and you might get a reputation as a feminist battleaxe among the bad ones, but they will stop and it will get better for the other women you work with. It gets easier over time as well once you’re used to shutting it down… And gives you plenty of good examples for competency based questions about cultural differences and difficulties with colleagues in future interviews.

      Good luck!

      1. A Rare Bird*

        Nothing wrong with being a feminist battleaxe obviously, I am one! Could have phrased that part better!

  8. Enescudoh*

    Hey folks. Got laid off this week, completely out of the blue, in particular harsh circumstances. It was my first job out of uni and I’d done two years there, had no real indication things weren’t good enough. Would love some encouragement and anecdotal evidence that this isn’t the end of all hope of finding a job I enjoy, which it kinda feels like right now.

    1. Tigger*

      Omg I am so sorry. I have been there before and it sucks. I just kept on applying to everything that sounded interesting to me and enrolled in a temp company and they found me some cool temp gigs. It gets better I promise.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You’ve got 2 years experience under your belt so you’re in a good place to look for your next adventure at least!

      I didn’t get laid off but I quit my first job after 14 months because they were going bankrupt fast. I ended up in the job that built my entire career afterwards. The 14 months experience was just enough to get my foot in the door and show my next boss what I was capable of doing. I was running the business within 5 years, no joke.

      Dust yourself off. You’re young and the world isn’t as scary after you dive back in whenever it tries spitting you out.

      1. Mellow*

        “Dust yourself off. You’re young and the world isn’t as scary after you dive back in whenever it tries spitting you out.”

        I love this. Well put, The Man, Becky Lynch, and so, so, SO true.

    3. intelligent_zombie*

      Just over a year ago my company suddenly went out of business. It was surprising and emotionally draining.

      A couple of things that worked for me: (all with the caveat – if you are financially able)
      – take some time, a day/week/month, to just let yourself be sad and angry and anything else you feel. Losing your job is emotionally very trying
      – let your network know you are available for new opportunities
      – work with someone you trust to brush up your CV/resume and cover letter and then practice your interviewing skills
      – take your time in finding the right job for you
      – depending on your skill set, take on some short-term, temporary work to bring in some money, keep your skills sharp, and grow your network

      Biggest thing – this was your first job and you were there 2 years. That’s actually really great. You have a million opportunities in front of you and look at this as the chance to start fresh in a new and exciting workplace

      1. JediSquirrel*

        This. When bad things like this happen, I give myself a week to feel terrible and indulge those feelings. Halfway through, I’m itching to get going on something positive. You’ve got to give yourself permission to feel the awful feelings and space to do that.

    4. fromscratch*

      I’ve been there! You will bounce back.
      My advice: Make the most of linkedin. Start connecting with people in your area and in your field (even not locally). Build out a great profile with as many project specifics as you can. Find local groups to join and start volunteering. Temp agencies can be really helpful during this type of situation as well.

    5. MLB*

      Ugh that sucks. I’ve been laid off twice in my career, and while neither time was easy, the opportunities that came after would have never happened had I not lost my jobs. Apply for unemployment immediately, even if they gave you severance pay, learn to be frugal and get out of the house often so you don’t go nuts and focus on the bad stuff.

    6. Jules the 3rd*

      I did ten years of trying various jobs / careers after my BA: retail management, tech support, web development, non-profit. There were all various degrees of ok – I could pay the bills, I had time to be social, I learned a lot.

      Turns out, my dream career’s in an area I’d never even heard of until I got to grad school (supply chain), when I was about 30. I get to solve problems every day! I have tools and skills that can Make The World Run Better!

      You don’t have to go to grad school to find the area that is great for you – it was just another way to check out different businesses / careers / opportunities . Just make sure you set yourself up to be able to go for new options and opportunities (have good savings / walk away $; don’t do illegal / mean things), try to stay flexible and open to options, and don’t beat yourself up when things don’t go to plan. Best laid plans of mice and men….

    7. Junior Dev*

      Hey, I’m sorry this happened.

      Some hopeful points:
      * “College, then 2 years at same job, which ended for reasons out of your control” is a pretty good timeline to have on your resume. It’s much better than I had (less than a year at various places, got fired from last one) last time I was out of work, and I found a new job about 4 months later, with some contract work in-between.
      * You found a job you liked so you can probably do so again, right? I don’t know what your financial situation is like but I encourage you to be picky if you can–interview companies as much as they interview you, think about what you do and don’t want to do in a job.

    8. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I was blindsided by a layoff after 2 years of a job that I’d started as a temp. 200 people let go in one day. We were all reeling. The best thing for me though was that the company offered an outplacement package. A few group sessions and a few one-on-ones. Take the training — even if you don’t take the trainer’s advice, you get good practice at talking about the layoff itself and about yourself in general. They ran us through self-evaluations, and I ran myself through every exercise in “What Color Is Your Parachute?” — and four months later I started at the company I’m still working for 19 years later.

      Another random thought… Try Toastmaster’s. I wish I’d found them sooner — I just went to my first session a few days ago actually, and I can already see where the practice will help me a lot.

      Hang in there – and keep us posted.

    9. theletter*

      layoffs are very different from getting fired. A layoff means the company or the department wasn’t doing well and couldn’t support the amount of staff, and some people had to go. A lot of the time, management will choose the person who was hired most recently, which is probably why you got picked. Chances are this choice had very little to do with the quality of your work.

      But like others said, two years of work right after graduating from college is very good. You are exactly what most employers are looking for: a recent graduate with a bit of work experience and you’re available.

      My father, who had a very successful career in IT consulting, told me that every layoff and firing he had was blessing in disguise.

    10. SansaStark*

      I’m so sorry. I had a similar thing happen (although I had a few additional years out of college). Eight years later, it’s one of the best things that ever happened to me and set me on a path I didn’t even know existed. I really hope that this is true for you, too. Over the next few days, treat yourself to something nice – even if it’s just turning your phone off and reading a good book or watching an old favorite movie. It’s been a rough week and you deserve something comforting.

    11. schmana*

      Ah this happened to me too, about 6 years ago.

      My job was so bad that I would throw up on my way to work (like, pull over on the side of the road and then finish driving in) and I was on anti anxiety meds and anti depressants. Since I graduated during the recession, I figured any job was better than no job, so I kept dealing with it. Then I got laid off (was also blindsided) and thought my world was ending. I took a few days to get stupidly drunk with my other coworkers who were also laid off, and then got to job hunting.

      Six weeks later, I found a job that I figured would be a temporary gig, but I’m still here. It was honestly the best thing to happen to my career. I’ve grown so much, traveled/lived internationally for work, and even my worst days at this company are 100% better than my best days at my last job. I think back to those days and laugh thinking about how I thought I had lost something that I needed. What I needed was a kick in the ass to find a job that was so much better for me.

      Good luck, and I hope you get to look back on this one day and laugh!

    12. Brandy*

      I was laid off totally out of the blue. I had been recently promoted, 5 years with the company, had 5 straight years of excellent performance and the promotions to prove it.

      My boss moved elsewhere in the company (not his choice) and my department got absorbed into another division. I was a senior director and new department head brought over a former coworker to take my role at the VP level. I was totally shocked, as was my entire team and all of my peers—as well as the entire senior leadership team, none of whom had been told or consulted except the new CEO (who was brand new and my boss and his new VP’s former coworker).

      Also, I was just shy of 3 months pregnant (had not yet told work).

      So….long/short of this is I hired a lawyer who got me more severance. I ended up with 8 months of severance(initial offer was 5) due to various factors. Lawyer also got them to pay me my bonus, which would have been paid out 12/31 and I got laid off right after Thanksgiving.

      I ended up picking up some contract consulting work during my severance period. I did 2 interviews and realized it wouldn’t be good for either party for me to be interviewing/seriously job hunting after 5 months for various reasons. One of my contract clients ended up calling me a few weeks after I gave birth to see if I wanted to join him in forming a consulting group.

      Four years later, I now have 3 wonderful kids, a job where I work on my time (about 20-30 hours a week, super flexed), and while I don’t have benefits, we have the infrastructure to offer them if/as needed. Right now I take more in cash and we use my husband’s company’s great health insurance, I have a Self employed 401k that is a fabulous tax shelter and enables me to sock money away like crazy and also being 1099 gives me a ton of tax write offs (yes, we still sadly have to itemize even under the new rules).

      I had a full blown panic attack when I was laid off- had never had one before. I thought I was having a stroke. But wow, my live would have been so different if I’d stayed in that role. I’m not quite as wealthy, but close, and so much happier.

      Best of luck to you- I know your story isn’t the same as yours but I know many people that have been laid off and it has put them in much better places in the long run.

    13. LayoffsArentJustForOldPeople*

      Oh my, someone in my exact same boat! I was laid off 6 work days ago from my first job out of school, too! Don’t be afraid to kind of practice saying, “I got laid off” because it helps begin to normalize it and others can relate to that and will be supportive.

      Two years out of school is a great place to be- you’ve gotten experience working professionally, you’ve learned things you like and dislike in your job and in an organization’s culture, and you’re more confident in your skills. Use those teachings to help fuel finding the right next job for you! It’s a sucky process but I’ve really come to enjoy finding many opportunities that I would never have imagined once I was forced back onto the job search.

    14. Namey McNameface*

      I’m sorry. I got laid off around 2 years after my first job, too. Even though I wasn’t fond of my job it still sucked and I cried a lot at home. I felt irrationally betrayed by my boss, although in retrospect I totally understand it was out of his hands.

      It was right in the middle of the GFC so I knew job searching would be incredibly difficult. I took some time off to do study, went to the gym a lot, and generally just relaxed and lived off my savings. Fortunately I could live with my parents and I had saved a reasonable amount before being laid off so money wasn’t a concern. Eventually I found a job which was more challenging and enjoyable than my old one.

      That was 10 years ago. I don’t even think about it now. Actually, I’m glad that happened because it forced me to take a different direction in life and do something that was much better. A lot of people have experience of losing their job at least once in a lifetime. But they all move on. As upsetting as it is now it will be a non-event when time passes.

  9. Parenthetically*

    Mr. Brackets is applying for some new jobs with better pay. We’re hoping to expand our family this year. Anyone ever successfully negotiated for paternity leave as part of an offer?

    1. StellaBella*

      In the country where I live, it is part of our social security and is paid up to 14 weeks both for mom and for dad (can take more unpaid). There is a wikipedia article called Parental Leave – it’s eye opening. I’m not sure I’d try to negotiate this but I would ask about the policies, and maybe ask about more holiday time if they won’t give parental leave? Not sure.

    2. Hmmm*

      Disclaimer: I am a childless woman who has never negotiated paternity leave.

      How much time is he looking to get? If it is a week or maybe two he could try to negotiate that as part of his overall vacation/PTO time. That way he will have it forever and it will still allow him to take the time to be with your baby.

      If he is looking at longer, then I would advise to use traditional negotiating tactics and emphasize that it is a one time event (unless you plan on having more children). Keep in mind that – when offered – most maternity leave policies in the US (if that is where you are) are contingent on 1 year of employment. So if he is asking for paternity leave specifically it would not be unreasonable for an employer to make usage contingent on the 1 year deadline as well. Good luck to him!

      1. Parenthetically*

        The 1-year thing is the issue. If he stayed at his current company, we’d be eligible for him to take 6 weeks because he’s been there over a year. If he left and moved to a new place, he wouldn’t be there for a year before we had another kid, most likely.

    3. Lisa B*

      Depends on what the company is. Big major corporations sometimes have pretty strict policies that are set in stone and can’t be negotiated, unless you’re up at a VP-ish level. Smaller companies might be more willing to be flexible.

  10. MuseumChick*

    I have an interview in a few days. Fingers crossed I will be out of my toxic job soon. The only down side is that it is 2 1/2 hours from where I current live. I’m not jazzed about having to move. I like the city I’m in, have a social circle, have started seeing a great guy for a few months now. But I cannot take this place anymore.

  11. Cheer me up please*

    I need to hear from people in other industries that it’s not all doom and gloom. I work in journalism and if you follow that news, this has obviously been a long and hard month (year, decade) for the entire industry. But then I have friends in healthcare, pharmacy, education (both K-12 and higher ed), and those industries feel like they are struggling as well. Can the AAM commentariat give me some hope that NOT all industries are collapsing? (Or should I just welcome our new robot overlords?)

    1. ThatGirl*

      I started out in journalism and it SUCKS. Things have been going downhill a long time and I sympathize mightily.

      But I work in consumer goods now and although this company is definitely having some struggles as retail landscapes change, overall the company is thriving, profitable and the biggest problem we’re having is finding good employees because the labor market is tight!

    2. KX*

      Publishing is… adapting. Print sales are down, but depending on the market and the creativity of the publishing and sales teams, moving to electronic formats is opening up interesting possibilities. The robot overlords so far are open to suggestions.

      1. Social*

        Curious what part of publishing you’re referring to. In the book world, print sales are up. And in the children’s space, digital sales have dropped in favor of print.

        There are paper issues these days but sales are quite solid.

        So, OP, consider publishing!

        1. Delphine*

          Not the person you were responding to, but I work in tech/software book publishing and we recently decided to be even more conservative with print runs because of how many people are opting to purchase e-books instead. But overall, the business is doing well, so I think it’s just a matter of adapting.

          The paper issues have been a nightmare. All our schedules have been thrown off.

    3. Formerly a reporter*

      My first job out of college was as a reporter. I was single and my needs were modest, so I didn’t care a lot that I wasn’t earning much. That job was fulfilling and rewarding for many reasons, but I had to leave the field when I realized that there was nowhere to go.

      One cheering element was that being a reporter made it easier than you might think to job-hunt in other industries. Prospective employers had seen me on TV and interviewers felt like they knew me. I chose jobs to apply for based, in part, on how valuable the knowledge I had gained could be to government, PR, marketing, bizcomm etc. Think of all the connections you’ve made!

      The hard truth is, I’m afraid, that journalism is only a rewarding career for a tiny number of super-talented, lucky, hard-working people with such dedication to the noble purposes of the fourth estate that they’ll accept the instability, low pay, deranged/disconnected management etc. that has come to characterize the industry. You post suggests that maybe now it’s time to think harder about what’s next for you.

      1. Midwest Writer*

        I really want to disagree with your last paragraph, but it’s hard to actually do so. I’ve been in medium markets, small markets and now tiny markets and I’ve found the latter are maybe the last frontier for getting to do good journalism with less corporate pressure. But I had to move hours from any big city to do it. This job and my last one actually pay better than when I was at a 70,000-circulation daily, in a much lower COL area. I’ve had good owners here, but terrible owners at bigger papers.
        Journalism seems so glamorous and there’s an unending pipeline of young people thrilled to work for peanuts, so it’s hard to get bigger papers to pay a living wage or even stop being awful employers.

      2. BenAdminGeek*

        Yes, journalism seems similar to the NFL in some ways- there’s always really talented, driven, young folks willing to work for less money than you. And that’s always going to make it very hard to get longevity or employers that will care about you.

    6. Tourism*

      It’s not so terrible, clickbait sites don’t represent journalism on the whole. My industry (tourism) is chugging along just fine and we tend to feel downturns relatively quick because when travelers need to cut back on expenses, vacations are one of the first things to go.

    7. Darrow*

      I work in insurance and things are going extremely well, from both a company and employee perspective. This is certainly not an industry that is going away anytime soon.

    9. Maya Elena*

      Health care is changing rapidly and good for some but bad for others. It is a growth field in terms of lots of new jobs, but definitely a major threat to anyone still in smaller companies, practices, hospitals, or anything else not well-prepared for the march of changing regulations and consolidation across the industry.

      In primary and secondary education, at it seems like again – there’s jobs and demand, but a big push to go to new methods, new approaches, new curricula, and a distrust of those with experience (with an accompanying attempt to oust them).

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        mm – education, like journalism, is actually a struggling field. The Koch bros and their minions (like Art Pope / Bob Luddy in NC) have been working to cut funding for public education for decades, and they’ve succeeded in a lot of places. The funding comes out of teacher pay, either directly or through higher workloads / class sizes.

        (I live in NC, it suuuuuuuucks to be a teacher in most of the state)

        1. Mellow*

          I was living in NC a few years ago when then-“Governor” McCrory (quotes intended) abolished K-12 teacher tenure and made up for it by giving all teachers one-time $500 bonuses.

          In a word, awful.

    10. Jules the 3rd*

      It’s a time of transition, and transitions are always stressful. Some people are going to win, others are going to lose. We should as a society do better about people who are losing, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.

      But the other part is that you may want to separate ‘industry’ from ‘labor inside an industry’. Healthcare, pharma – those *industries* are going strong (in the US / EMEA at least)(1). But in the US, we’ve got a serious labor / capital power imbalance across most industries, so that companies are not treating their employees well. The low unemployment rate should help, but it isn’t (2). People are struggling to understand why; my theory is ‘it’s hard to move jobs and take advantage bcs it’s hard to move housing and employees got scared by the Great Recession.’ The uncertainty about US future / trade relations under the current president doesn’t help.

      So, you and your friends are part of the current US angst, but the business / industry fundamentals are fairly strong. Until the next recession, which is probably going to be in 2020 as the pres campaign heats up. I’m just hoping it’s not a bad one.

      (1) GooBing ” fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1Pik ” and hit the St Louis Fed for 50 years of history on corporate profits, to 2015. They aren’t hurting, it’s only gone up since 2015, and it was high then.
      (2) “Unemployment in the US is historically low, but wage growth is sluggish”, Business Insider, Sep 2018

    12. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m an accountant in manufacturing. Small niche items are still booming, large ticket items not so much.

      1. CMart*

        I’m an accountant in manufacturing as well. Trucking is currently booming. Accounting in general is always in demand. I’m feeling pretty secure for the moment.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Yep, I just got dropped into manufacturing but when I’ve looked for jobs over the years, even during the dark days of the recovering recession, accounting opportunities are never lacking. Granted when businesses start failing, accounting gets injected with more applicants of course but I’m always snapped up rather quickly with my background.

          I did a stint in construction for a minute. Lumber is still hot, despite the timber industry collapse of the past decades. They aren’t popping up everywhere but if you’re around a mill, it’s solid after the purges.

        1. Cheer me up please*

          This is super interesting to hear, as my pharmacist friends ( I have a few) are experiencing a major shrinking of steady work. It’s all becoming part-time/contract and very hard to find positions with benefits. Is this pharmaceutical research/sales that is doing well?

          1. Lora*

            Research is meh but they are usually meh or terrible, never awesome. It’s hard to be better than meh with high failure rates.

            Development seems to be doing pretty good.

            Manufacturing doing great! We have lots of work coming from the pipeline.

            Don’t know about sales.

    14. Justin*

      There’s actually ways to do very well in education. It’s just that traditional education is struggling (not that this is okay).

      I expect that this is true for many such industries.

    15. NewNameJustForThisBecause*

      I’m in health care IT/website, and it is booming. And I’m not a developer, just on the business side of our website. The writers, UX, designers, product managers, project managers and auxiliary support are all booming, not just developers. I’m a marketing person, undergrad in journalism, with an ability to understand business cases and speak tech, and my math/logic, communication and presentation skills are invaluable.

      I think looking at skills – not just industries – is important. And I’ve had an unending quest to learn something new (example, I read the industry trends or items of interest in the wall street journal every day; I am of an age where you think I’d use a flip phone, but I’m designing if this/ then that scenarios for future strategy and able to talk about machine learning).

    16. Natalie*

      Accounting in general is killing it. I’m a “non traditional” candidate (humanities degree and no public accounting experience) and I’m getting cold called by recruiters. Internal, at that.

    17. Cheer me up please*

      Thank you everyone for the comments! This has, in fact, cheered me up.

      I knew going into journalism 10+ years ago that my time would be limited and I wouldn’t stick around forever, but despite all the ups and downs I’ve greatly enjoyed the work and felt like I’ve made a difference. Even through multiple rounds of layoffs I’ve never been worried that I wouldn’t find something else if my number was up (I’ve acquired MANY marketable skills doing this work). I just worried more that I would then go to another industry and get the same rollercoaster ride, and doing that when you are young and have no dependents is much different when you are over 40 and have kids depending on you.

      1. CMart*

        I can’t speak to the “over 40” aspect, but I entered the accounting field as a 30-something with a baby on the way (now proud owner of one additional baby). The continuous growth of that field and the nearly guaranteed stability were very reassuring to me.

      2. Katy*

        I think it would be smart to break down your categories. Some colleges are doing fine, others are struggling, depending on where they’re located, how many students they enroll, how reliant they are on public funding, and other factors. I work in edtech and we’re doing fine. With your journalism experience, I would encourage you to consider marketing. There are positions where you might have a lot of transferable skills in writing, editing, data analysis, a smattering of HTML, graphic design, or photography. And people always worry they will find marketing to be soulless but it can be very satisfying if you work at an organization you support. Good luck!

    18. Rufo*

      You could take your skills to a software development company as a technical writer or marketing writer. Both jobs require not just writing chops, but also investigative abilities. Jobs range from the super technical to the not-at-all technical. And software development continues to boom. (Plus it pays very well.)

    19. CY-CS*

      I studied journalism but pivoted to other things and I’m a UX content strategist. If you’re willing to leave journalism, I’d definitely check this field out. It’s really in demand and I really love it. Every major brand is hiring people like us because we are storytellers. It’s all about storytelling except for the user. There is still a ton of writing in it.

  12. Sloan Kittering*

    I was astonished at the strong reactions to the candy jar letter yesterday (one thousand comments!) and especially how many people jumped to it being a moral issue that was worth OP making a stand over. I don’t want to re-litigate it here, I just think it’s fascinating that it’s the smallest things – like office candy jars – that ignite the most ire.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      It’s like the rule that arguments in academia get more vicious as the issues get smaller.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes isn’t there some adage about the smaller the issue is, the bigger and more entrenched the fight becomes….? Cannot recall the exact phrase, but I learned it when starting higher academe from one of my colleagues who was counseling not to take things too personal if some of my advisors got really mean, etc.

        2. Natalie*

          Sayre’s Law: “Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low.”

      2. rebelipar*

        It is “neesh” NOT “nitch” and I WILL FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO DEFEND MY HONOR ON THIS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE OF OUR TIME.

        6. Sam Sepiol*

          I totally agree. Mr Banks says “nitch” in Mary Poppins, I only realised this recently and I can’t tell you how mad I got.

        7. Electric Sheep*

          Btw, it is definitely not nitch, and it’s pronounced neesh, but it’s actually spelt ‘niche’.

    2. Shark Whisperer*

      I think they talked about this on an episode of Han and Matt Know it All where Alison was a guest. I don’t remember exactly what they said, but people definitely get their hackles up over low stakes questions. I think maybe the obviously bad ones are so obviously that there is no one to argue with so you don’t get the same dopamine rush of feeling morally superior.

    3. Susan Calvin*

      I was surprised by how many of the “It’s not *about* the candy jar” crowd didn’t seem to be familiar with the concept of giving someone a long enough rope to hang themselves with!

      1. Mellow*

        And we in the “It’s not *about* the candy jar” crowd were surprised by how many in the “It’s just candy!” crowd don’t understand the long view of boundary violations.

    4. Psyche*

      I think it’s because more of us can see ourselves ending up in a situation like that and so it resonates more. The bigger issues are less relatable, although we can sympathize for those involved.

    5. Plain Jane*

      I’ve worked as an administrative assistant for most of my career, so I have a lot of experience with candy jars, potlucks, business meals, receiving food baskets from vendors, etc. and people have Strong Feelings And Opinions when it comes to food and beverages at work.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I do think it’s just a flashpoint somehow. Like very small perks that some people get and others don’t – it’s like it ignites the childish sibling rivalry point in your brain and then rationality really goes out the window. I have been astonished at the behavior of some professionals (and fallen victim to it myself as well!). I guess it’s because I feel trapped here all day against my will, so hearing that some other team got donuts or gets to sit by a window or has some new desk gadget …

        1. Shirley Keeldar*

          I think this has a lot to do with it, actually—the fact that we’re all “trapped here all day” doing what other people tell us to do, sitting where they tell us to sit, wearing what they tell us to wear. Then tiny things like walking over to the candy dish and deciding which Hershey’s Miniature you want become a bigger deal than normal because it’s something that you’re doing entirely for yourself and that’s quite rare. So when you mess with the candy jar or the coffee machine, it touches a very sensitive nerve.

          *obviously I’m choosing a Krackle. It’s by far the best.

          1. fposte*

            Fistbump on the Krackle!

            I also think food really does hit at some basic mammalian neurology. Who eats what and when is super-important in lots of species, and we’re not as evolved as we like to think.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            It can also reflect a survival mentality where people are struggling to get from one minute to the next minute. I have associated it with toxic workplaces. I think that if management treats people like crap then people tend to treat each other like crap. People go toward what they see around them.

          3. Elizabeth West*

            I’ll have all the Special Dark, please. It’s the only Hershey’s I can stand. Fortunately, no one else seems to like them so I get all of them, heh heh.

    6. MuseumChick*

      I agree. I’m always fascinated when the AAM community strongly disagrees on something. It reminded me a little of the letter when one person had go through another person’s trash and gotten them in trouble. Alison noted in a later post that there had been a strong divide between managers and non-manager on that letter.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        LOVE it when there’s (civil) disagreement in the comments. One I remember vividly was about the necessity of asking for a raise sometimes. There were some passionate arguments that this was NOT a thing professionals should be expected to have to do, and that the commenter would just leave their job immediately if raises were not bestowed automatically.

      2. Danger: GUMPTION AHEAD*

        The nearly even division of opinions makes me really want an update. I’d like to see which way the LW went.

    7. Myrin*

      Yeah, I was astounded by that, too. I didn’t really participate in that comment section because it was already pretty late where I am when it went up but mostly because I found the situation pretty benign and something where Alison’s answer seemed entirely satisfactory to me. Now imagine how absolutely astounded I was when I opened the site this morning and saw the number of comments! I had truly not expected that at all!

      (It’s something I’ve observed several times on this site, actually. At least once a month, the one question in a five-answers-posts I find utterly uninteresting gets like two thirds of the comments directed at it. I don’t infer anything from that other than that it’s really fascinating to me how differently interests skew!)

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Agree, it was such a low stakes question! Not at all the most interesting one that week to me.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yep, I almost didn’t print this one because I thought it might be too small an issue.

        Ha.

        I ended being pretty taken aback how common it was in the response to that letter for people not to think to separate “who is in the wrong?” from “what should the letter writer actually do?”

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I feel like that’s a theme of the letters that get a lot of traction in the comments: commenters get really interested in who is right or wrong, and sort of forget about the actual question that is asked.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            But … I feel like nobody was even arguing that the crabby coworker was right! Obviously, she was acting childishly, we all agreed about that.

            1. Jules the 3rd*

              Yes everyone thought crabby coworker was wrong, but some people were also arguing about whether the OP was wrong / right in persisting in keeping the candy out. That was where most of the traction seemed to be, to me.

          2. PB*

            I think this is true. I also feel like more relatable problems are more likely to raise hackles. Most of us have never had to manage an ex that ghosted us, give up pieces of our liver, or leave a note on a grave. These were all interesting letters, of course, and generated lots of comments, but the anger they provoked was more removed. The candy letter, or the leap-day birthday letter, however, feel more relatable. Have I had coworkers with no respect for boundaries? Yes! Have many people had PTO cancelled for a dumb reason? Sure! As a result, I think these letters just feel more personal.

        2. Drew*

          I’ve often found that people who seem to treat every encroachment on their perquisites as an opportunity to gird for battle are desperately unhappy about things they can’t control, and so it’s even more important to them to fight for the things they can.

          They’re the ones who don’t understand the concept of picking one’s battles, because to them, all battles are equally important.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            “Are desperately unhappy about things they can’t control” – I do think that’s a factor in why small perks at work arouse such passion, and also why the privacy/security of the LW’s personal items and space was such a hotbutton for people. Because at work, you’ve lost a lot of your personal freedom already so you cling to these really small things.

        3. fposte*

          I also think there’s some kind of injustice contagion, whereby an injustice in a letter flares up all our old injustices. It can be really hard to resist mapping a letter onto your own experience in the best of times, and then when one makes you all mad again about that effing Fergus at your old job, it’s tough to see around that lens.

          1. froodle*

            Injustice contagion is such a good way of putting that thing! I call it the landscape framed by froodle, the world is the world but it’s all seen through my framing and if something Not related to me reminds me of a thing that effected me, RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION ABOUNDS!!

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Inequities will snowball even if they seem unrelated to each other. I thought coworker’s reaction was that of a person who privately felt beaten by their own job/workplace.

        4. Bostonian*

          “Yep, I almost didn’t print this one because I thought it might be too small an issue.”

          LOL. Funny, I thought you gave it its own post because you KNEW it would be a hot topic.

            1. Elizabeth West*

              I just read the post and the comment reply and the cow-irker is a twit. I’d go with the paper wall because I’m a horrible person.

              Yes, I’m crabby today.

          3. Falling Diphthong*

            One of the things I had not expected to learn on this site was how deeply people become invested in any routine provision of free simple carbohydrates. Like, they could be hunkered down in the cube farm on Day 3 of the Zombie Apocalypse, clad in makeshift armor made from tax regulations and armed with staplers, and someone would say, “Wait, it’s Pretzel Thursday! Where are the pretzels?!!!!”

        6. Courageous cat*

          I think this is a natural thing that’s going to happen as the site and commentariat gets bigger and bigger. I feel like I’ve noticed it already over the course of just the past 2 years. People also get snarkier as a natural result too, I think.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        Your last line is why I usually like blogs like this one–the window into how my obvious answer is other people’s obvious nonstarter.

        This reminds me a bit of Dave Barry’s worst rock song contest, which he casually tossed out as a topic and immediately the Miami Herald’s internal messaging almost broke under the onslaught of hardened reporters who are also impassioned song haters, and when it hit print it generated more mail than any other column by miles, because hating a song that keeps coming on the radio is a topic that can generate 10 pages of all caps. (Macarthur Park won.)

    8. Nanc*

      Picture it–small Oregon University, 1995, the dean of faculty and staff solicits feedback for what should be offered in on-campus snack and soda machines. At one point I let the poor lady restocking machines hide in my office because she was being bombarded for info and she just wanted to restock what we currently carried.
      There was a committee with two subcommittees. It was . . . interesting.

      1. Chilly Delta Life*

        This actually might be the most interesting thing I’ve read today. Would love to know more, like what did they break into subcommittees for exactly?

        1. Nanc*

          One subcommittee for beverages, one subcommittee for food. There were long meetings about cans versus plastic bottles on the beverage subcommittee. The minutes were interesting . . .
          The food subcommittee spent a couple of months arguing over what constituted healthy snacks.
          I believe the survey took well over a year and by that time the vending contract had expired so the university was in the process of soliciting bids from vending machine companies.
          I left that job before it was all settled. I don’t miss academia and the plethora of committee work.

    9. deesse877*

      My quick-and-dirty read is that most excessive-comments-about-trivialities respond to two things:

      1) Transgressions of the boundaries of the body, and anything that is a proxy or symbol for the body, like clothing, a personal cubicle or car
      2) Any scenario in which a woman is asked to take on a caretaking role (to a person or people of any gender), and declines to do so.

      These two main issues clearly go to some very primal fears and basic questions, about social interaction in general, and women’s roles in particular. The candy dish war had both main issues in very pure form.

      There is also a smaller but significant group of posters, for whom failures of personal respect between co-workers are much bigger problems than they are for the majority. I suspect that these folks may be cultural outliers in other ways as well, but I am not positive.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I think there was a kids-these-days / PC-culture subtext where somebody wasn’t “taking personal responsibility” and was trying to get other people to take it on for them – that seemed to be a flashpoint also (as seen in the “trigger warning” culture wars).

        But yes, another touchpoint was definitely the Sanctity of Your Stuff at work, the sense that somebody touching somebody else’s possession and handling their drawer was a huge violation. I remember a similar letter where somebody was suspected (kind of speciously, I thought) of throwing away somebody else’s mug, and there was a similar eruption of fury.

        1. smoke tree*

          One thing that I thought was interesting was how many commenters were heavily leaning on compassion for the coworker as a reason to come to a compromise. Obviously I’m not a very nice person because in this situation, I would be too annoyed to be compassionate, although I would still want to de-escalate the Candy Wars for the sake of my own sanity and reputation.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Me too, because being the receptionist means that people think your desk is a supply closet. It is not.

            At OldExjob, I had to actually put a sticker on my stapler with a picture of Milton Waddams and the caption, “MINE!”

      3. Asenath*

        Windows.

        Our little group, which had seemed to get on quite well, moved from one end of our complex to another. The new area was cleaned and painted, but any renovations – like moving walls to change the size of the rooms – couldn’t be done. It took MONTHS to get the room allocation worked out, almost entirely because one person insisted that it was his right to have an office with a window. Being far lower in the hierarchy, I and one of my co-workers were moved to 5 different rooms, together when the space was largish, separately when it was more closet-sized. And we didn’t have any demands about windows – I did like the one room that had a window but was perhaps a little small for two. The window fanatic got that office in the end.

    10. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It delights me. Such a refreshing change from the actual terrible stuff that we hear about. I’ll fight about candy all day long…much better than trying to hijack employees internal organs!!!

    11. Roscoe*

      I was too. This seemed like a pretty simple letter on its face, and it was SO polarizing and people had very strong reactions on both sides.

    12. smoke tree*

      I think that question was just a perfect storm. It included so many commenter indignation flashpoints: food and dieting, personal space and privacy violations, personal responsibility, the line for reasonable requests to make of others in a shared space . . .

      Also, for me the major one was the fact that the coworker was so obviously ridiculous in her approach and expectations, and in that situation it’s really tempting to try to teach the person a lesson, even when the stakes are this low.

    14. Delphine*

      I wonder if it’d be easy to predict which letters will elicit that kind of response. I think any letter that focuses on boundary-violating behavior where the best advice is really to accommodate a bit of the behavior because it’s easier is going to create friction.

    15. TootsNYC*

      and cake. I used to frequent a message board that somehow had the most contentious discussion when cake was involved. I started putting (“warning: cake”) mentions on subject lines.

    16. TootsNYC*

      It reminds me, actually, of the story of the guy who shot his neighbor because the neighbor kept putting a mattress in the guy’s dumpster.

      And the widow said, “You’d shoot someone over a mattress!”
      But (while I don’t condone the shooting!), it wasn’t over a mattress.

      It was over respect.

      And that’s the case with the candy jar. It was about respect, that’s why the OP was so angry.

  13. Dish and the spoon*

    Are there effective ways to make our professional organizations more inclusive?

    Last week, the American Library Association Midwinter Meeting was held. Numerous people of color reported incidents of microaggressions, and a firestorm broke out after a woman of color was verbally attacked by a white man during a council meeting.

    ALA released a statement condemning the behaviors, and promising more working groups and studies.

    I’m interested in hearing if 1) the librarians on here have thoughts on what else our profession can do and 2) if commenters from other professions have ‘best practices’ for organizations trying to improve in this area.

    (I also ask that we not litigate what happened at the conference, or get into he-said/she said. Let’s concentrate on what we can do better, please.)

    1. Ashley*

      One thing I have been taught is to consider location. Minorities aren’t super welcome in some communities unfortunately and it can have a chilling effect on participation when you know the cops will be watching you when you drive through town.

    2. Sandy*

      Best practices:

      -Location, location, location: what part of town is the conference going to be held in? Is the location accessible by people with disabilities, invisible or otherwise? Are the bathrooms accessible for people with disabilities, invisible or otherwise?

      -Timing: check the dates of religious holidays and don’t hold conferences on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays.

      -Make a variety of food options available, including kosher, halal, and vegan.

      The biggest point: volunteer this information up front, in the conference invite. Nothing alienates people faster than having to ask whether the bathrooms are accessible, same-sex partners are invited to the reception, or kosher food is available. Show people that you’ve thought though the issues hat important to them beforehand.

      1. La Framboise*

        I wasn’t at Midwinter and just read this week what happened. If academia had taught me anything, it’s to plan for anything to happen and have your supporters ready to go beforehand. I think we’ll all have to understand that this dynamic exists, and be ready to speak up in a situation. A terrible learning lesson on preparedness.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      A lawyers’ organization I belong to has an inclusivity policy for its annual national convention: if you’re proposing a panel, you must provide a diverse list of participants and explain how the list follows the rules. Briefly, and for reasons that have been litigated literally for years in the organization itself, no more than half your panel participants can be straight, white, male lawyers. The problem addressed is that lawyers, even activist civil-rights lawyers, tend to be drawn from elite classes. They won’t hear and really understand what they need to, if they don’t sit back and listen once in a while.

      1. WOC*

        Yes. This.

        The above comments saying “make sure your location is safe for POC” are like saying “the white people need to do a better job making decisions for POC, and also maybe more hugs?” No. You will not get rid of the structural racism in your organization until POC are in leadership roles and have significant representation among your membership.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          Yes, this. Recruiting more PoC for all areas of your industry; pushing employers / etc to build relationships with colleges with more PoC.

          I mean, does the ALA org have internships? Do you recruit for those at HBCUs? Do you reserve some slots for PoC?

          Also: Serious consequences for racism. At the least, removal from positions of authority in the org (committees, boards, etc). Can you expel the white man who did the attacking?

          Microaggressions are harder, but maybe some restorative justice techniques would be helpful. Also, mandating that your white members attend some effective diversity training might help. I hear ‘Cracking The Code’ helps people who are clueless but well meaning understand their microaggressions.

          1. Jules the 3rd*

            Also, I didn’t realize the size of this conference. You might look into what tech and geek conferences are doing around sexual harassment. Goobinging “effective conference harassment policies” gives several good resources from Ada, for example.

        2. hello*

          “You will not get rid of the structural racism in your organization until POC are in leadership roles and have significant representation among your membership.”

          This applies to every workplace on this whole blog, in my opinion. Advice applicable to all

    5. hello*

      I think these big conferences are also is a good time to examine the profession as a whole. Maybe that means more scholarships for librarian assistants of color to get their masters in library science, maybe it means that publishers need to promote POC to high positions (with publishing, a very white profession being also at ALA, I think that does not help the whiteness).

    6. Another Librarian*

      One of the challenges for professional organizations is what can the organization do when the members may behave in problematic ways. The leadership of ALA can set policy, but I don’t know how policy would help with behavior from members. I’m interested in what other people might suggest to combat these issues, especially because ALA is such a huge conference. It’s over 8000 people at the average midwinter and over 1500 at the summer conference. That is a huge number of people. So, I don’t have answers, but I am deeply curious what others will say.

    7. OhGee*

      Not a librarian, but friends with enough that I heard about this. I am a past organizer for a technical community conference that draws several hundred attendees. It’s a very white, male space, and we tried multiple things to build a more diverse, respectful space:

      * build a conference program that offers a diversity of speakers and ideas – this takes work, because if your space is particularly white and/or male, you will probably have to recruit speakers (including keynotes – speakers will be more interested in giving a talk if they can identify with one of your featured speakers!)
      * have a safe space policy/code of conduct etc (I see that ALA had this for this gathering)
      * enforce the safe space policy/code of conduct
      * no, really, enforce the safe space policy/code of conduct for EVERYONE – the organization for which I ran a conference took a ton of flack from past speakers and community members because it became clear the CoC *didn’t* apply to [white, male] leadership/luminaries of the community. (the fact that I was unable to move the needle on that is part of the reason I left). nobody respects a CoC if it’s toothless.
      * *require* registrants/speakers to assent to the CoC upon registration/acceptance of their talk – you will probably get pushback on this. It’s a great opportunity to explain *why* the CoC matters…and you are unlikely to lose more than a handful of attendees – more people will be thrilled to know they can expect to attend a safe, cared-for event.
      * this is the hardest: bystander training in your professional community. this takes a ton of work and can really bring out white fragility (I am white, btw). but I think building a culture in which those who are NOT being attacked see it as their duty to address microaggressions (and plain ol’ aggressions) as they’re happening is the only way to achieve long-term, positive change. the other side of this coin is that well-meaning white people (and I include myself here) need to learn to hear critique about their behavior without becoming defensive or upset. It can be hard to do, but as I’ve made a point to do so, I’ve felt my behaviors slowly changing for the better.
      The Geek Feminism wiki offers lots of guidance on healthy CoC policy/enforcement, too. I am glad ALA came out with a response that isn’t a total waste of time — I hope they can follow through, centering the voices of people who are most vulnerable to harassment in professional spaces.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        +1 on GeekFeminism wiki, and also recommend the Ada project; GooBing “effective conference harassment policies Ada”

      2. Sammie*

        I love the idea of bystander training in some form. I’ve heard very mixed responses from diversity trainings – my anecdotal evidence is that it’s eye-opening to those who don’t have that much experience really truly engaging (AKA listening at least as much as you are talking) with a diverse group of people on a regular basis – but for everyone who IS the diversity so-to-speak it’s a bit… wishy washy. Teaching those of us with privilege practical scripts and actions that we can use to contribute to others’ wellbeing – without making it all about us and expecting pats on the back for regular decency – seems like the next step. And most of us have some measure of comparative good fortune we can take advantage of in some fashion. E.g. I’m LGBTQ and I’ve been harassed even in my super liberal city, but I’m also white and materially comfortable. I know that if I lose my temper in the face of bad behaviour I won’t likely be stereotyped (or double-stereotyped) for it the way black women tend to be. So, lose my temper I shall!

      3. Tourism*

        Lots of talk about white males, but you really want to see some non-inclusive conferences, you ought to attend some tourism industry conferences, especially AAHOA. It’s a rather interesting cultural thing.

        1. OhGee*

          I mean, I’m a white woman and was working in a very, very white, male technical community (less diverse than the mainstream tech community – about 95% white men), so that’s where I’m coming from. I’m sure other homogeneous business communities have their own issues that I know nothing about.

    8. former librarian*

      The woman of color in question is a bully and the white man who is being dragged as a racist was the only person brave enough to stand up to her. No one intervened because they all agreed with him, and no one is speaking up because they’re scared that she’ll tweet about them in a way that her followers will identify her critics, dox them, and jeopardize they’re employment. It’s incredible that he’s being called a racist when no one can identify anything racist that he actually SAID. Instead, he’s being pilloried online because he took umbrage with an individual who happens to be a woman of color.

      If their identities were reversed, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. And by the way, this behavior has been going on at council forum for years.

      This situation is disgusting. The “attacker” was bullied by her for months (which she denies – but it’s easily disproven if any librarians cared enough to check sources) and is widely understood to have several disabilities. It’s incredible that everyone is basically tone-policing a disabled person for not being sufficiently civil, while the “victim” is online complaining that her attacker wasn’t civil enough towards her. Everyone involved needs to grow up.

      1. Delphine*

        If their identities were reversed, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. And by the way, this behavior has been going on at council forum for years.

        Well, no kidding. If their identities were reversed, the power differential wouldn’t exist. I’m not saying you’re wrong, because I don’t know anything about the situation. But I hope you can recognize on some level that white men attacking women of color has significant historical significance and women of color attacking white men does not.

        1. former librarian*

          What power differential? She has an online mob attacking him for behavior that 1) white women in her twitter mentions admit has happened to them at this particular conference event (thus proving that there is nothing racist here) 2) that is not only normal for the space (a fact confirmed by WOC supporting him on listservs and speaking out anonymously behind the scenes for fear of retribution 3) that is in fact a known clinical presentation of his medical conditions.

          She has a platform that she has weaponized to have the professional association suspend a due process investigation and demonize him on her say-so. She is tone policing an autistic man, while calling everyone who tone polices *her* a racist, and anyone trying to point that out is being doxxed and harassed. Oh wait, I’m sorry, she doesn’t call them anything. She just points her twitter mob towards her target, and lets them do her dirty work so she can maintain plausible deniability and say that she isn’t harassing anyone.

          Who is the one with power, here?

        2. Ann O.*

          That seems like an incoherent distinction when we’re talking about a here-and-now interaction between two individuals. Unless you genuinely believe that it is okay for women of color to attack white men for any reason, including that they simply felt like it, because of historical oppressions (historical oppressions that are usually constructed from a US-centric POV).

          Personally, that is not my definition of an inclusive environment nor the goal I picture in my head when we talk about dismantling oppression.

      2. MeMeMe*

        Are there any accounts from others at the council meeting that day? I can only find a blog post by the librarian who was verbally attacked, and she doesn’t go into much detail about the specific situation.

        She also says that she and the man in question have no past history. What are your sources for saying she had been bullying him for months?

      3. Mobuy*

        I’ve been trying to find some information on this event, but all I can find is the alleged victim’s POV. Do you have a link to the other side? In my experience, it’s very rare that something like this happens and the fault is on only one side. But it’s common for someone whose handle is something like “Categorically Against Racism” to look for the next blog post. Not that what happened was okay, but it might be…overblown?

        1. former librarian*

          @mobuy I was there. The victim’s POV is not really disputed. What is missing is the context. Many on council have been frustrated with the victim for years because she uses her platform to twist, distort, and take our words in the space out of context. We beg the association to make the transcripts public, but our calls go unheeded, so the victim’s accounts go repeated in the echo chamber she has built. We are sick and tired of being dragged online as racists because we disagree with her on substantive policy matters of professional association governance.

          In my opinion, the victim was being performatively sweet to someone we all know she has a history with. Her “attacker” called her out, shaking, visibly distressed, and agitated. In another world, we’d see this for what it is: a victim standing up to their abuser. The “victim” everyone is rallying around is someone who bullies people behind closed doors, scares them off of standing up to her consistent mobilization of her online mob, then, in public, acts nice to them. It’s my opinion that like all abusers, her goal in doing so is to discredit her victims in front of witnesses. Abusers do this by making their victims look unstable – she does it by making herself look like a victim and by claiming her opponents are racist.

          She’s really doubled down on her claim that she has no history with her “attacker”, when the receipts are out there for anyone to find – it’s amazing that her followers all work as librarians, but that no one has bothered to actually research this.

          And I have to respectfully disagree that there is nothing to be gained by discussing what actually happened. This is a situation that gets to the heart of how social media can be manipulated into making EVERYTHING a conversation about racism, when this isn’t about racism, it’s about a culture of fear of call-out culture that a handful of cynical people are exploiting in order to gain power for themselves.

          We need to talk about this. It shouldn’t be a requirement of professional service for every white person to pound their chest in front of each other and proclaim, “I’m a racist because I’m white!” What does the word “racist” even mean if it’s been expanded to mean “all white people”? Why is everyone acting like it’s normal that her “attacker” has his name and image all over Twitter as a racist when no one has even accused him of saying ANYTHING racist? Am I seriously supposed to believe his speech magically became racist because he’s a white man speaking to a black woman? How does anyone think this is professional, appropriate, or doing anything to dismantle white supremacy?

          1. Mobuy*

            I agree with you. I am always skeptical of anyone who uses the internet mob to shame and humiliate people. Also, I rarely believe professional racial agitators. Thanks for your perspective.

            1. former librarian*

              If you would like to see her “history” with some of the individuals involved, go look at her agitation around #nohateala. The “attacker” posted a message to the Council listserv about that policy. She responded to it, then posted an incendiary blog post not two weeks later.

              She’s very clever. She maintains plausible deniability that she bullies and doxxes people by having her followers do it on her behalf. She could tell them to stop. She doesn’t, though.

              Similarly, as regards her tweets and blog posts, she has people go out and say things like, “just because you think she wrote about you doesn’t give you the right to call her out for incivility for discussing race.”

              We all know that she gives JUST enough information and says things behind closed doors to stir up racial animus and get people who disagree with her accused of racism. Everyone pretending otherwise is gaslighting.

              When she goes online and says things like “the people wanting more facts are gaslighting me” (paraphrased) she’s misrepresenting the situation. If he thinks she anonymously dragged him online and it gives him nightmares…why are we dismissing that fear when his fear is playing out right now in live time?

              The most frightening thing to me is the woman tweeting about how no one can say that anyone else isn’t a racist, because we don’t know what’s in their heart. Since she can’t point to anything in his words to prove he’s a racist, it makes real clear that what he is accused of is a THOUGHT CRIME. And the man tweeting about how being dragged online by name is just “part of being a white person,” I hope this mob comes for him next. These people don’t realize all their tweets sucking up to the “victim” the won’t help them if she comes for them.

              The online mob is FAR more unprofessional than anything that happened to the “victim” at this conference.

              No sane person can read the “attacker”’s post on the meeting room policy and conclude that he is a racist. It says a lot about the profession that his decision to post that put a target on his back. Make no mistake, he’s being singled out and punished because of his disagreement with the “victim” on that matter.

              His only crime was failing to modulate his voice when confronting a bully. He would have had the same issue if the “victim” were white.

      4. Dish and the spoon*

        Again, I don’t think there’s much to be gained by trying to hash out what happened. I think we can all agree that our profession needs to continue to work on diversity and inclusion, and would ask that we focus on what to do moving forward.

        1. former librarian*

          There can be no progress until everyone treats each other with respect, and that includes the “victim.” This individual is actively stalling our work on diversity and inclusion, by creating an environment of fear. The first step forward is for her to stop calling everyone who disagrees with or criticizing her a racist.

        2. Mobuy*

          There is not much to be gained by the facts?! Are you sure you are a librarian? By all means, let’s continue to harass a man who may have been abused (and certainly is now) because the R-WORD is so dang scary! If he was accused of being racist, screw the facts! Bring out the pitchforks!

          Look, I know you want to move forward. But you are throwing this man under the bus and pretending it didn’t happen. If he’s innocent or if it’s more complex than “white man bad,” then hashing out what happened is absolutely necessary. You cannot allow bullies to go unchecked, even if the bully is (gasp) a WOC. Also, if the bully is a white man, please don’t blame all white people for his actions. That’s unfair and uninclusive.

      5. Mellow*

        “No one intervened because they all agreed with him, and no one is speaking up because they’re scared that she’ll tweet about them..”

        ————————

        So you interviewed all 30 council members who were present and that’s what they told you.

        Correct?

        1. former librarian*

          It’s weird that you’re taking issue with one part of my statement that’s obviously hyperbolic. I don’t believe you are engaging in good faith, but I’ll respond anyway for the folks following along.

          Of course there were other reasons no one interrupted. I’ve discussed one (the decision not to tone police someone who is broadly understood to have a disability). Another that I haven’t seen discussed is that the outburst was over nearly as quickly as it began.

          People are not being honest about why they didn’t interrupt. That’s my point, and you’re welcome to take it or leave it. I have spoken to many on council and I stand behind my opinion that most people on that body are not enamored of the “victim”’s behavior prior to this event. Significantly more than 30 people on Council would agree with the “attacker”’s remarks, if not the manner in which they were delivered.

          I doubt very much that you could even assemble 30 councilors who don’t have at least some sympathy for him. I guarantee a majority of people in that room agree with him. We’ll never know since many of them are making different statements publicly than they have privately.

    9. OhNo*

      As a (white) librarian, the #1 thing I wish white people in our profession would do is stop trying to be the Most Woke all the dang time. There are so many white librarians that will try to talk over or speak for people of color because they work with minority populations and think they know so much. I’ve never been to an ALA conference, but the library conferences I’ve been to are filled to the brim with performative wokeness that does nothing useful, but does make white people fall over themselves to heap praise on each other for being so accepting.

      Just because someone works in an urban branch and is more knowledgeable than the average white suburbanite doesn’t make them the Voice of POC. We need to learn when to sit down, shut up, and listen for a change.

      1. damngcoffee*

        Our profession is oftentimes insufferable. It’s definitely the overwhelming whiteness of the profession at the root of it, but I think it’s compounded by our need (as a group, generally) to ‘solve’ all the problems or to be ‘helpful.’ That need to be helpful shuts down so much actual discussion b/c it ends up shutting out any attempts at productive conversations.

          1. damngcoffee*

            Sorry, I wasn’t clear there, I guess. The “group” I was referring to in that sentence was librarians a a whole. Our profession centers around service, which is awesome, but can also lead to a need to help that overwhelms the need to take a step back and listen, I think.

      2. former librarian*

        This shouldn’t have to be said, but I’m going to say it. Not all white people are racist. That word means something, and I’m tired of this crowd’s attempts to redefine it.

        (By the way, I’m black.)

        1. OhNo*

          It literally didn’t need to be said, given that I never used the word ‘racist’ anywhere in my post.

    10. ThrowAway*

      Disclaimer: Am a white woman.

      I’m not familiar with this incident, but I worked for a similar organization for a long time. Librarianship is overwhelmingly white women. There were some decent attempts being made to encourage POC in leadership roles, but when the profession as a whole is 90% white, there’s only so much you can do. We would usually have one African-American board member, and when I left they were bringing in more young board members, partially as a way to increase racial diversity. But if only 10% or less of the population is nonwhite, and it’s a small profession to begin with, you’re limited in the number of leaders you can find.

      I think the only way to really change this is to increase the racial diversity of the profession as a whole. Which…might be hard. It’s a profession that requires a master’s, is very competitive, is not very well paid, and often requires people to move across the country to get a job, all barriers for many POC. But actions that help that (scholarships, activism to increase pay, dare I say removing the master’s requirement?) would help.

      You can police behavior better at conferences, but it’s not going to change the underlying racism and white bubble that many librarians are living in. You can require diversity on panels, but if you’re drawing from an extremely small pool to begin with, it may be counterproductive (i.e., white people will charge “reverse racism”). I guess at least ALA could at least require panel makeups that are representative of the profession as a whole, and get more aggressive when it comes to things like author panels where you have almost infinite people to choose from.

  14. mf*

    How do you deal with coworkers who are not team players? Who really don’t want to help you out with basic requests?

    There are several members of my team who… put out when I ask for small favors. And by small, I mean something like: “Next time you place an order for office supplies, can you order an extra box of file folders for me?”

      1. Millenial Lizard Person*

        Here I was trying to figure out if you mistyped “want me to put out for small favors”! The duck club returns ;)

      2. froodle*

        I was gonna say, them putting out when you ask for office supplies is maybe being too MUCH of a team player? Like, you just wanted file folders, gosh!

      1. mf*

        Well, mostly asking them to do their job. In the example I listed above, the person I asked manages our team’s Staples account. So I think that counts as asking them to do their job?

        1. Rainy*

          I don’t approach that stuff as a favor. I’m not allowed to access the Staples account, so I send a link to what I need with “Hey [Office Manager], could you get me 2 of these? Thanks!” I think it creates more problems when you’re very tentative about asking people to do their job.

    3. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      I usually just pour on the smiles and cheer because people like that seem to want to suck the joy out of everything, so it’s super annoying to them when you won’t comply. Early this week, we had a change to our phone system where this employee had to be back up once a week to the person who is primary on answering our (typically pretty quiet) phones. Her response involved something about being “blindsided” by the change. My response was a big smiley “Thanks so much for your help!”

    5. I should be working ...*

      Could it be a timing issue? When my group had an admin assistant for this sort of thing (until the last re-org removed the position :( ), they asked that we make these sort of requests around the time they make the order (once every two weeks). It was easier for them to remember the “odd” requests and meant they were less likely to forget the request when they put the order in. If you’re the 4th person in the last couple of days that has asked for something and the order happens two weeks from now, I could see frustration occurring.

      Maybe when asking for the favor, also ask if this is a good time to ask, or a good way to ask? Maybe they would rather have it in an email so they can look it up at a later date or have some other way to remember. They should really use their words but nobody is perfect.

      1. happy Friday*

        My suggestion is to create a shared document where people can add requests as they pop up, but the person ordering can check when convenient for them (e.g., right before placing an order).

    6. Don't you be that kind of barn owl*

      Our CPO is kind of like that. She can also decide whether of not you have to jump through 3 hoops for everything, depending on her mood. So I work her. Whenever I go through the office I’ll make a little joke, or compliment her on something or commiserate with her about something. It takes about 5 minutes and makes her easier to deal with when I need something.

      Just for the record, yes I do resent it and I have no respect for her.

    7. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      That’s a personality-type I’ve learned. The person who was like that here is finally gone and it’s delightful. I took over some of the duties they had and everyone is now not tip-toeing in asking for “favors” like you categorize them. It’s my job and I’m happy to do my job, I don’t have any patience for crotchety people though.

      Just bury them in smiles and drip honey, it makes them feel more dead inside I’ve learned >:D

  15. Mouse*

    I’m an EA. My boss, the CEO of the company, has somewhere around 10 direct reports. I am set up in our payroll system to approve all of their time-off requests, but I (understandably) don’t have the actual authority to do so – I have to collect approval from my boss (and 3 other executives that don’t want to do the approvals), then approve them in the system. This happens either by a printed page that the exec signs, or an email that they reply to with “okay” or “approved”, whichever they prefer.

    I occasionally have trouble getting my boss to respond to these requests in a timely manner, especially when he’s traveling. HR then gets annoyed with me because they aren’t approved in time for payroll. To compound the issue, we don’t enforce any kind of lead time for requests, so it’s very possible that a request could come in at 11am with approval necessary by noon that same day, with my boss (or me!) stuck in a meeting. I don’t expect that policy to change in the near future.

    I think it makes little sense to have a person approving time off requests without the actual authority to do so. However, I understand that if I didn’t do it, my boss wouldn’t either. For context, it’s not a difficult approval process (just click “Approve” or “Deny” in the automated email), but still probably not a realistic expectation for a busy CEO. Also for context, I have only been told to deny a request once in the year or so that I’ve been doing this. It seems that people are generally trusted to handle their own schedules. I don’t think my boss even looks at the requests I put in front of him to approve most of the time.

    Do you have any good tips or suggestions of ways this is usually handled? We’re a mid-sized, family-owned company that has had a lot of growth lately, so a lot of our processes are feeling some growing pains. My job has existed for only about a year, and I’ve never been an EA before, so I think everyone is still figuring out how these things work. Do other companies just enforce request lead-time? What about last-minute sick days? I know there has to be a functional way to do this, I just don’t know what it is.

    1. mf*

      Your boss needs a proxy he can delegate approval powers–ideally somebody who doesn’t travel, possibly someone in HR.

      1. mf*

        It also doesn’t make sense to have you be the ONLY person who approves in the system. What if you take a sick day or go on leave? There needs to be a secondary person who has access as well as a proxy for your boss who can grant approval.

      2. DivineMissL*

        I agree – I look at it as the “what if Boss got hit by a bus today” scenario – who would approve things? There should always be a backup.

      3. Mouse*

        A proxy makes so much sense!! HR (a one-person department) does have access to the system, but doesn’t have the authority to approve without boss’s permission, so when he’s out of the office we’re pretty much stuck. Maybe he can give her authority to approve or deny.

    2. The Rain in Spain*

      I second the proxy suggestion, though he may tell you that you ARE the proxy. Can you sit down with your boss and ask him to let you know how you should handle these requests? It’s strange that there’s no policy re lead time for requests, but HR really shouldn’t be coming down on you when you don’t have the actual authority to approve/deny. It may be that there are certain times of the year/holidays/etc where he wants to review them but otherwise he may give you the authority to approve most of these without running them by him.

      1. Mouse*

        Thank you! I’ve tried to talk to him about it, but unfortunately that leads to a whole separate issue where whenever I raise a concern with him, he tells me to “figure it out” and refuses to discuss further, so that’s not a great route for resolution.

        1. Natalie*

          Well… what if you just figured something out? If you told him you thought it would make the most sense to function as his proxy, and you are going to use this and that rules to decide what to approve, do you think he would have your back if there was any kind of issue?

          1. The Rain in Spain*

            Negative consent! “Boss, Johnny’s vacation request is below. Unless I hear from you before 4 pm on Friday, I am going to approve it. Thank you.”

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I agree that your boss needs a proxy. As his EA, I would expect that to be you in these circumstances; when he denied that one request, did you know the reasons for the denial? Do you think you know your boss well enough to make that call?

      It also sounds like your company needs a much more streamlined process. Did I read that correctly, that a person needs four approvals? And your boss is the final sign-off? Maybe, just to start, you can have the authority to approve leave if the three other execs sign off first?

      I would also say that if the approval process is this unwieldy, you do need longer request lead times.

      1. Mouse*

        Ah, I’m sorry if I worded it confusingly! No, I just follow the same process for each of those execs and their reports just like I do for my boss and his reports. So I approve the CEO’s reports’ requests, the CFO’s reports’ requests, etc.

    4. ISuckAtUserNames*

      I would try to get his blessing to approve them yourself, and talk about what type of time off requests he would generally want to approve (eg. over a certain length, during busy season, etc.). Anything routine that doesn’t fit those criteria you have authority to approve. If you ever feel like a request seems like something your boss would want to see outside of those parameters you can always bring up, but it would take some pressure off , day to day.

    5. Indie*

      When they are complaining *at* you, maybe phrase your responses as though they are OF COURSE complaining about Boss?
      “I remember you saying this last week about Boss’s approvals. He genuinely is truly offline, but yes it is frustrating when he is unavailable to approve this stuff. Do you want to schedule a meeting with him to discuss the issue of what to do when he is travelling? Or maybe you could drop him an email and see what he suggests?”
      Let them sort it out. Encourage them to sort it out!

      1. mf*

        YES. Let them take their complaints to him, not you. Management is often more willing to make changes when they have to field complaints directly (rather than through their EAs and staff).

    6. Marvelous Mrs. Manager*

      There may be some wisdom in understanding what value is added by the approval process. What goes in to the CEO’s decision to approve or deny a request? If there are simple rules for approving PTO, like making sure that no more than 2 people per team are off at a particular time, or she can’t approve more than 5 business days off in a row, then the EA could be a designated proxy for approving most PTO requests. If there are certain teams or times of year that would need higher approval, then the EA could escalate only those to the CEO. It may be specific to my company, but there are only rare instances that PTO requests aren’t approved, so it seems unwieldy to have every request escalated.

      1. Sam.*

        This was my thought, as well. What was the reasoning behind the one time the request was denied, I wonder? I imagine it was a pretty clear reason, since OP says it’s so unusual. If the company still wants the supervisor to put eyes on every request, even if there are clear rules OP could follow, perhaps they could settle on something like, “Unless you tell me that the request is denied, I will go ahead and approve it in the system at the end of the business tomorrow,” or whatever is reasonable for them.

    7. Nessun*

      I run into a similar situation with my boss (I have been an EA for years, and he is out of the office CONSTANTLY). I’d suggest having him select an individual that he trusts/has the right level of authority, to be his proxy in terms of the “OK do this” email – and then you can click the approve as his delegate whenever needed, based on either he or this individual giving written approval by email. And save the email approval.

    8. hello*

      Y’all might want to consider an internal deadline to turn in timesheets, so by 5pm the day before your deadline, or something similar

    9. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      My boss’ EA used to approve my time in the system as a proxy. I’m pretty sure she had authority to approve if my request if it was a run of the mill day or couple days off. I know she would run past my boss anything that was longer than a few days, around holidays, or if my request overlapped my boss’ already scheduled time off.

      In other words 90% of the requests fell under her authority and the other 10% she would get approval for. I think it generally worked from what I heard.

    10. Babs*

      EA here: Our company has HRMS payroll system that assumes big boss/approver are at their desks 24/7. My big boss is rarely at his desk or a real computer.
      I approve time off and timesheets (when necessary) for about 10 director level (each director oversees about 100 employees each). Each of these 10 directors get treated like adults, meaning they give their boss (my boss and the division director) a heads up early about time that they are taking off, usually by email with a copy to me. (Sick happens too by email or text or what ever.) I put their vacation/planned time off on a calendar that big boss can see so if he goes looking for a director then he knows why they aren’t answering. ***I think this is key. Big Boss could care less when people take vacation until the moment he is trying to get an answer to a problem or a big meeting comes up. Then he only cares if the director isn’t answering their emails or text messages. So I pre-empt the issue by listing his directors times off on his calendar so each day he can see across the top who is out that day/week.
      So by time the time off makes it into the system to be approved by me, big boss has already given the nod. I don’t have to wonder if its correct or not. If it’s a mistake or they didn’t actual take the time off because of business needs then payroll can fix it later.

      TLDR: I’m just there to click the button, so I do. I don’t have to worry about getting approval, that’s between my boss and his directors. I maintain a visual on Big Boss’s calendar of who is out of the office that day.

  16. Labradoodle Daddy*

    Who here has experience working as part of a group of contractors for a larger company? I’m experiencing a lot of frustrating crap at work and would love to vent/discuss

    1. I have questions*

      Did you mean independent contractor for a large company? Or, are you a general contractor for a larger company? Just trying to understand what you do!

      1. Labradoodle Daddy*

        I work as a receptionist at a hedge fund. I work for a contracting company which provides admin staff for the hedge fund. We kind of feel trapped between a rock and a hard place bc contracting company sucks but we have very little power to do anything about it. The hedge fund facilities contact really only cares about getting butts in seats for as little money as possible. Contracting company wants to hold onto contract and thus covers up a lot of shady crap. Our team feels like we have no one we can really turn to for help who would care that we’re in this position.

        1. I have questions*

          Ah, been in similar situations, although never receptionist at a hedge fund. Are there other contracting companies out there that you can look into for your next role once this contract ends? If you don’t like the way this company handles their contracts, maybe it’s time to move on.

          I’ve found that in the past, a lot of this is client-driven (in this case, hedge fund company sets the budget for what they will pay contracting company) and of course, to win the business, the contracting company will agree to lower their rates which in turn means lower rates for all. I can guarantee you that there are companies out there who don’t play this game, who WILL decline projects/clients that don’t suit what they want to pay their staff/themselves.

          If you do accept a bad contract (I understand people have bills to pay), know that it is only for however long the duration of the contract is, and then you never ever have to deal with them again if you choose not to because that’s one of the best parts of contract work.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      My mom does. And they unionized. They now make 62.5% more and have reps to deal with nonsense the head office tries to pull.

      I’m not sure how that got done. You’ll need to contact a labor union office to see how that works.

      Sadly without power of contracts and unions, you are crushed under the weight of fat cat execs who just want to crank out a service without acknowledging the humans involved.

  17. Architect's Resume*

    I am an architect preparing a resume for an internal job posting, and need some help formatting.

    Option 1: list responsibilities by project, nested under the firm (this is my current format)
    Pro – very clear about my roles and responsibilities, can show growth by having more/different responsibilities on more recent projects
    Con – I end up repeating some responsibilities that were done on multiple projects, multiple breaks/headers take up more space on the page
    Llama Designers / Anytown, USA / January 2015 – Present
    Teapots Inc Global Headquarters – Project Architect
    -Interior renovation of 5 floors, including workplace and specialties spaces – 200,000 sqft
    -Design development, Construction Documents, and DOB filing
    -Lead weekly coordination meetings with consultants and engineers
    -Responsible for drawing set and project manual
    Chocolate Factory Condos – Project Team
    -New 12 story mixed-use building, , including market rate and inclusionary units – 75,000 sqft, 110 units
    -Design development and construction documents through DOB filing
    -Attended meetings with engineers and other consultants to coordinate drawing set
    -Prepared condo lot plans for filing and sales
    -Prepared paperwork and drawings for 421-A and DOB filing

    Option 2: Listing responsibilities by firm, and list projects after.
    Pro – This takes up less space on the page, reduces redundant repetition
    Con – my roles have varied/grown while at this job, so I didn’t do all these things all the time, and different project types (interiors v full buildings) use different skills
    Llama Designers / Anytown, USA / January 2015 – Present
    -Programming diagrams in schematic and design development phases
    -Responsible for drawing set and project manual during Construction Documents
    -Run meetings with engineers and consultants to coordinate full drawing sets
    -Prepared drawings and paperwork for DOB filing
    -Prepared condo lot plans for filing and sales
    -Reviewed submittals and shop drawings
    -Attend on-site meeting and work with contractors in the field
    Projects include:
    Teapots Inc Global Headquarters – Project Architect – Interior renovation of 5 floors, including a workplace, and specialties spaces – 200,000 sqft
    Chocolate Factory Condos – Project Team – New 12 story mixed-use building, including market rate and inclusionary units – 75,000 sqft, 110 units

    TL/DR: Architects – list responsibilities by firm or by project?
    Any difference since this is will be for an internal opening?

    1. Looking looking*

      I have been doing option 2, coz I want to list many projects, but doing same thing every time

    2. CAA*

      As someone who reads resumes — not in architecture, but my field has some similarities with using skills repeatedly on different projects — I really prefer option 2.

      If there’s one particularly advanced skill that you only used on one project, and you feel like you might be inflating things too much with the generic list, you can add a short form of the project name as in “Prepared drawings and paperwork for DOB filing on Teapots HQ”. For lesser skills or skills that you’ve used twice or more, this is really not necessary.

    3. A CAD Monkey*

      Definitely Op2. It makes for a more concise resume. This way, the interviewer can, at a glance, see the skills you have acquired. Most interviewers I’ve found care more about what you can bring to them rather than what you have worked on in the past.

    4. Ranon*

      I could see it depending on how your firm is structured (and since you work there, you’ve got the benefit of knowing this!). Does work tend to be split up by project, project type, or job function? How is the position you’re applying to different from the one you currently hold? Do you need to show experience from previous jobs with different project types, different responsibilities, or both?

      The best format is the one that best conveys how your experience is relevant to the position you’re applying to- I’ve often done a hybrid and highlighted one or two of my most relevant projects and then followed with a more general list of skills & experience, or flipped the order and led with skills, added a project or two as specifics

    5. Jules the First*

      From someone who reads a ton of architect resumes (ten years sitting on the hiring committee for three starchitects) – neither! Do your best to codify your position on the team (project lead, project architect, package lead, team member, etc) and then tell me not what your responsibilities were but what you achieved. So you might say:
      Llama Architects
      Chocolate Condos – Project Team
      – Team lead for successful delivery of fully coordinated construction drawings set and project manual for 110-unit condo development. Site contact for chocolate contractor consucting quality checks and site supervision to ensure project was delivered on time.

      Project-based is best, but don’t be afraid to group projects where you had a similar role. It’s also ok not to put every single project on your resume – and for internal jobs, you can skip the description of the project and just give them the name and your role and achievement. Good luck with the new role!

      1. Llellayena*

        Thank you. I was trying to figure out how to word a response like this, but the last time I worked on my resume (Architecture) was right out of grad school. Everyone in a architecture company knows what types of duties you have if you’re on a team or team lead. But achievements may not be obvious. Like “Redesigned entire wing of building in one week after client changes. Client came back for another project.” (I’m exaggerating a bit…maybe)

        1. Jules the First*

          One of those starchitects used to reserve the right to completely change the design and make us start from scratch as long as we had seven days before the deadline.

          We did a six week concept study for a client once and yes, we did six completely different designs. Consecutively. Somehow I lasted seven years in that job…

  18. Tigger*

    Omg I am so sorry. I have been there before and it sucks. I just kept on applying to everything that sounded interesting to me and enrolled in a temp company and they found me some cool temp gigs. It gets better I promise.

  19. DC*

    So, I started just about a year ago at a place that seemed perfect. FANTASTIC benefits, lots of growth potential, etc. Small start-up esque location that in the last year has grown substantially and been putting more process and policies in place.

    Flash forward a year, and we’ve had a lot of people leave both voluntary and not, the growth potential for me looks to be drying up, it doesn’t look like my asked-for, deserved raise will be awarded, my boss may be leaving, and I’m feeling pigeonholed and stuck in a rut with no idea where to go from here. I’ve been working with burnout symptoms for almost 4 months now, as we are understaffed in my dept.

    How have peopled handled things like this before? How have you figured out what you want to be doing? How do you decide what is truly a red flag and just you panicking? How do you handle being both burned out and wanted to be able to take on work that would interest you?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      To me there’s a time dimension here. I would ride out maybe six months (?) of dysfunction to see if things would change, particularly if there was a sense that change might be coming (new hires, new leadership, new contracts etc) but any longer than that, I’d feel like this is the new status quo and I needed to act accordingly, by job searching. If you have asked for a raise you feel you deserve and been denied it without strong direction for what could do to get promoted/get that raise next year, they can’t be surprised that you started looking.

        1. Trinity Beeper*

          Also at a startup, have had (many) moments where things are looking bleak and burnout has become the norm.

          Sloan Kittering’s advice is excellent. I’d also take a hard look at your current duties and see if anything can be taken off your plate. Not reassigned to someone else, but just…put off. Even if it’s important, but it’s not urgent, consider finding a way to stop doing it. I’ve done that before and the company hasn’t grinded to a halt. It’s really helped with my happiness at work.

    2. Anonym*

      Not sure if this will be as helpful to you as it was to me, but you’re really allowed to just decide you’re too unhappy to continue. You don’t need to reach a quota of reasons or have external validation that your situation sucks enough to leave. You don’t need our confirmation on red flags to explore and look for something better. You not liking it is enough.

      I’ve been dealing with an increasingly intolerable situation for a year, and spent a lot of time trying to argue away my unhappiness. Just because someone else might be willing to tolerate it doesn’t mean I have to.

      As for how to figure out what you want next (because I absolutely feel you on the burned out and lost front), talking to people and — without pressing yourself to find an answer quickly — exploring what’s out there. Learn about roles that are close to your experience, then branch out to anything you’re curious about. Talk to people in your life about career changes they’ve made, how they got to those decisions. And, for the love of all that is good, take care of yourself. Give yourself breaks from trying to figure all this out. Make space to relax and seek comfort. This was the biggest thing for me that helped me out of what I can best describe as a work related depression. I was trying so hard all the time to solve the work problem AND get myself out of there. Cutting myself serious slack for about 6 weeks helped me get some energy and hope back, and I’ve been much better able to deal with my job search since then. And it moved me from desperate and seriously considering almost anything that would get me out of there (not a great thing mid-career) back to being selective in what I apply for.

      Best of luck, DC. Wishing you peace, clarity, and a happy transition sooner than later.

      1. Agent J*

        Just because someone else might be willing to tolerate it doesn’t mean I have to.

        So much THIS. I have been rationalizing staying at a job I don’t like with pretty good benefits and culture because my job just…sucks. But this makes me feel better that I don’t need a “good enough” reason to leave a job. If it’s not working for me, it’s not working for me. Thank you for saying this!

        1. Anonym*

          You’re welcome! Goodness knows how badly I needed to hear it. I hope you land someplace wonderful very soon.

      2. Quinoa*

        Really do take the time to look around at what else is available. I have a brand new career in a field that didn’t exist when I was in college.

      3. DC*

        I needed to here this- especially the line pulled out earlier. And your advice for figuring out what is next was super helpful. Thank you so much!

    3. Kes*

      If you’re not happy with the way things are going, I would start looking around. You don’t have to decide immediately if you are going to leave or not, but you’ll get a better idea of what’s out there and be in a better position if you do decide to leave, you might find something great that will make the decision to leave a no-brainer, and even if you ultimately decide to stay, it won’t hurt to have the additional knowledge.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Some companies are not equipped to deal with a big growth spurt and huge or even large sudden growth CAN sink a company. This happens often with small or new companies.
      You were there for 8 months before the burnout set in? That is an awfully short time to go from excited to burned out.
      Burnout does not happen for one reason, it happens for many reasons. Some of the reasons can seem silly as stand-alone reasons but grouped together those reasons paint a picture. “They took the candy dish away. Now I have to buy my own candy on top of buying my own toilet paper.” Wait. What? BYOTP? REALLY?

      You don’t say here, but one thing I would look at is the percentage of people who have left just in the time I had been there. And I would think about their value to the company, for example if the Chief Widget Designer quit Widgets Inc, I would consider that a medium to large concern. If the Assistant to the Assistant Widget Designer left, I would not think twice about that.

      In my own life, I have banked off my good bosses. If have I had a decent boss who was thinking of leaving, that would make me pause. Yeah, I would at least start looking around for myself. I suspect your boss might be an okay boss as your boss seems to have cued you in that she is looking for a new job. She might have deliberately tipped her hand in a big way. The risk here is that you find something before she does, but she thinks enough of you to let you loose if you want to go soon. Some bosses understand the bigger picture.

      Panicking. This is a great tool for life in general: Think back to other times you felt panicky about something. How accurate were you? Most of the time? Half the time? Never? I know I get a certain type of panic that says, “NO! Take care of this problem RIGHT NOW.” And I might drag my heels, the feeling comes back to me even harder, “RUN! JUMP! Salvage this situation right now!” When the feeling hits hard like that I am right about 90% of the time.

      Handling burnout and looking for work. Picture a day where you are at New Place and saying to yourself, “Thank goodness that I pushed through that burnout and bailed myself out of that hot mess.” Keep picturing that moment over and over in your head.

      1. DC*

        Thank you so much for this! I needed to check out on Friday, and it is really helpful to check back in to some really fantastic advice. Thank you! The good boss/cueing me in part is really when I started to think, since that conversation was coupled with “Here are major red flags where if I’m not here and you see them, get out as fast as you can.” I can’t imagine having that conversation otherwise.

  20. PX*

    I posted previously about falling out of love with my job. One of the things I resolved to do is have a (direct!) conversation with my manager about wanting more challenges and growth because I..dont feel like I have enough work to do and am actually getting pretty bored.

    Anyone have good scripts for that? I feel like I saw some floating around here recently but seem to have lost them now that I need them! Links to older posts/threads are good too!

    Thanks.

    1. Combinatorialist*

      I think it can make it easier if you come armed with some suggestions about what you would like to do with the more challenges and growth. If your manager is busy, it is a much easier sell to be like “I would like to do X. Is that okay assuming my current responsibilities aren’t being neglected or is there something you would rather me be working on” than “I need more to do” without direction

      1. PX*

        Yup, I’ve been thinking about that and have some ideas in mind. I’m just really struggling with how to clearly communicate it without it coming across as…adversarial or ultimatum-y (even though it kind of is)?

        Basically I dont want the same response as the last time I (softly) approached the subject which was a ‘oh we’ll worry about that later/you’ll be fine’ kind of brush off.

        The other issue is the small team dilemma. Just got confirmation we are having a small re-org, and basically what I want is…to move up/departments – but these are things outside my bosses direct control so then I waffle over whether making the request is even worth it because I just..expect to be told no?

        (Can you tell I’m good at overthinking things?)

        1. Blue*

          Is your boss generally pretty reasonable and supportive? If so, I think the reorg is a great excuse to bring this up, even if your boss isn’t necessarily making the final decisions. I’m certainly no Alison, but I’d probably broach it by saying, “I’ve mentioned in the past that I’m looking to step up the level of challenge in my work and contribute more to the office, and this reorg seems like an obvious time to do that in a meaningful way. I know decisions probably haven’t been made yet, but I wanted to talk to you about whether you think it would be realistic for me to move into [type of position] and, if so, what, if anything, I might be able to do to facilitate that.” If the answer is no or “I have no control over that and I’m not willing to have a conversation with my boss about it,” I think you could say, “Ok, I understand. Once we know how the reorg shakes out, then, I’d like to set up a time for us to talk about additional projects or responsibilities I might be able to take on within my current role. Would you be open to that?” In that case, I think the key thing would be getting it on the calendar so that she can’t brush off the conversation.

          In short, it’s always worth asking [politely, obviously]. The answer may be no, but it will definitely be “no” if you never ask. If nothing else, you’ll have put your interest out there and made it clear that you’re serious about taking on new challenges. Good luck!

    2. LKW*

      I think you can frame it as “I’m thinking about my long term career goals. I wanted to discuss some areas I’d like to stretch myself. I’d like your thoughts about these ideas, as well as get some feedback about my professional growth.”

      Turn it around to “I want to grow, can you/will you help me do that?”

    3. Nessun*

      It might also be worthwhile to touch base with individuals you could support or learn from, and get their input on what you could do for them, so you can bring that to the discussion. “I’m interested in learning about X, and Jane has suggested that I could learn Y (piece of X) from her, in order to take that off her plate. This will assist my growth long-term, and also help me shift some work from Jane, who we know is also busy with Z.” I’ve always found the cooperative aspect goes very well with the proactive search for places to learn/grow.

  21. Chronicles of Kevin*

    We started the process of letting him go.
    …but let me backtrack a second:
    https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/open-thread-august-10-11-2018.html#comment-2104632

    Basically HR had told me months ago that his references weren’t great. But she had told the interviewing managers (who were lukewarm about him) that he had great references so that had pushed him from the “maybe” pile to “Yes.”

    We wrote him up this week b/c a client complained he was rude to her. This has come up many times and we’ve always addressed it every single time with coaching, advice. etc. My manager would talk to him and I’d send follow up emails. Emails went ignored. In fact, during the conversation, I had printed out every singel email I sent him and read through them to identify the common complaints. he still had NOTHING to say, and ignored me.
    ch he royally messed up and I have every reason to believe he did it intentionally. B/c of that mess up, we took a core duty off of him. I made sure to explain to him that this isn’t a good thing b/c it puts a burden on his team members to pick up the slack and is a precursor to getting terminated.

    He insisted we couldn’t write him up b/c he did his job, but we told him that being nice to clients and colleagues is a HUGE part of hte job. I once was abruptly let go from a temp assignment and the owner of the office said that “I can work with lack of technical skills, but not a bad attitude.” That’s stuck with me for years.

    All in all, we spent an hour trying to get this message across that being nice to clients and respectful to his peers is a really important part of this job.

    He truly honestly didn’t believe he’s doing anything wrong. He actually has friends here, which shows that he can be reasonably pleasant with certain people that he chooses to be nice to.

    The reason why we did so much follow up is so that it doesn’t come back to us that we didn’t try hard enough to coach him or make him happy & engaged etc.

    We gave it our best shot to turn this around but unless he has some sort of personality transplant, he’s on his way out.

    1. Nessun*

      Ouch. Yeah, it’s great that he has the ability to make friends in his company, but he also has to be a good human to the clients of that company, or all the friends in the world won’t help him keep a job. Good on you for following up and documenting everything; I don’t envy you the headache of dealing with someone who doesn’t understand that “don’t be rude to clients” is a rule that is Carved In Stone. This will bite him more than once, but if he has to learn the lesson over and over…that’s on him. Show him the door.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Well I brought up friends here (not in his conversation) b/c it shows me he is perfectly capable of being a nice person….he just chooses to be a dick to us.

        TBH I’m not too bothered by him anymore, b/c I know in my head and heart we did our best and either he will do his best and turn things around or he will be fired; either outcome is desirable.

        My manager prefers to face these kind of things in the beginning and talk to the person and coach them…if that doesn’t work, then they escalate in to write ups and termination. Majority of the time, after some coaching, people tend to turn it around (I am one example). Other managers on other teams have either let the low performer perform so badly that they were fired and it was a huge shock or just let the toxic person stay until they quit on their own.

        You would think “Don’t be a rude to clients” is so obvious, and I used to think it was too, until I learned how nuanced it really is. This really isn’t a job where you just stay at your desk and crunch numbers, there is a huge focus on building relationships with clients. It’s taken me longer than I am proud to admit to really, fully absorb this. Someone with 10+ professional years of experience like his, I would really expect them to know how to act in an office with colleagues.

        I’m ngl, reading the emails out loud was a tiny bit satisfying even if he did ignore them. I kept my tone calm and friendly. The focus of the meeting was to relay the issues that have popped up and what the consequences will be.

    2. Sam.*

      Hang on, HR lied about his references…? Why on earth would they do that? As far as problem employee goes – basic customer service is a key part of any job that involves working with clients. I assume he’s been explicitly told that if he doesn’t learn to place nice, he’ll lose his job? If so, it sounds like you’ve done your due diligence in getting him to come around, and if he refuses to do so, then he needs to go. And unless there’s something going on with HR that I don’t understand, that’s something TPTB should look into, too, because wow.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Yes, it appears that’s what happened. I was not involved in the interviewing/hiring process. When the problems started, I brought up HR’s comment to the interviewers in the context of “oh btw, this is what HR had told me, did you guys not catch this attitude in the interview?” This truly had never been relayed to them. (Also, I have no reason to believe that the interviews are not telling me the truth, please take my word for it that they’re not lying to me).

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        Sorry I jumped the gun on my reply.

        I honestly don’t know why HR would do that, I’m baffled too as to why they said it to me but failed to tell it to the actual interviewers. Im told that HR has a tendency to try to get very much involved in our daily work when it’s not necessary, and pressures to hire people the interviewers are not thrilled with.

        And yes, employee has been explicitly told that he will lose his job if so much as another client complaint comes in. (We review all complaints so we can coach the person if necessary). I did the best I could.

      3. dramalama*

        It could just be how they framed it; I went back and read the original thread, and OP said that the in house recruiter warned her “that his flaw may be ‘doesn’t play well in the sandbox’ or something like that”. That still leaves room for “All his references say he’s great, when I pushed them the only bad thing they had to say was sometimes he doesn’t get along with everybody.” Optimism can cause people to wave away red flags on both sides of the hiring process.

        Disclaimer: Unless HR just straight-up lied, and I’m rationalizing a more flattering version of events out of ignorance.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          I can totally understand that! I try to stay positive and optimistic, b/c hey I was new too!
          But then when things get bad… start looking at the pattern.

          Tbh though I wouldn’t be surprised if the references really were great, b/c they’d be motivated to get rid of the person!

      4. Nervous Accountant*

        Btw I just noticed, sorry if I am using the wrong terminology. HR = in house recruiter. Our “HR” team consists of the in house recruiter, our controller and the office manager who assists in administrative/payroll issues. And a few part time people who assist in locating resumes etc.

        And you’re right it is such a basic part of the job. He think s of it as I’m doing XY and Z (consulting and tax returns) without realizing that AB&C are also a part of it. I was like this as well, that being warm and fuzzy shouldn’t be more important than having the hard skills, but I was coached on it and didnt act like this.

    3. DamitBobby*

      Whoa this caught my eye in your back track comments: “boundary pusher, and a little bit sexist” This sounds like a guy I worked with that I’ll call Ken. Ken had friends but when you looked closer I found out they were really “frenemies.” They were friends because it offered a life raft. When I complained to my boss about this guys blatant bad behavior my boss called us “oil and water.” It was really hurtful to have it turned around on me but it was better when I started to name it and distance myself.

      This guy was awesome at gas-lighting and he operated at Maslow’s hierarchy of a #2 – Safety. He could never quite reach higher than that. I described him as the story of the frog and the scorpion. He couldn’t resist either sinking himself or sinking you.

      I will never forget the lessons I learned from this guy. I get an icky feeling in my stomach just thinking about him. He eventually went back to his old job when his old boss returned to that company and “took” him with. I was really disappointed that my boss never had the balls to fire him. The lasting impact was that I never really look at my boss the same way for not dealing with the really bad apple. It was so clear and called for termination. I heard from the rumor mill he was searching around for a new job even though he bad mouthed our company so much while working for it.

  22. Amber Rose*

    It has been an absolutely nightmarish week, I’ve slept maybe 2 hours a night, my stomach hurts from stress. I’m taking a mental health/too tired to function day off work.

    I feel guilty. It’s so hard not to. :(

    Lately I just feel like I’m garbage at my job and I have no confidence. This is partly due to the 3 or 4 unrelated aspects of my job conflicting constantly. But also because the government keeps changing the rules and my boss/coworkers prefer to shoot the messenger.

    I wish I had a nice quiet desk job where I could just put my head down and work. But I don’t know how to find such a thing.

    1. Nita*

      I’m sorry. Hang in there. If you can’t change anything at work, can you stop caring about doing everything well? Like, if you can’t get five reports out on time, do three and say “sorry, the others aren’t done yet, but I’m aiming for Tuesday.” Sometimes, trying to do it all just wrecks your health.

    3. Trinity Beeper*

      I’m so sorry to hear that. Please take care of yourself today. Quiet desk jobs do exist!

    4. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      I’m so sorry things are so sucky. But mental health days are good! Try to just veg.

  23. Washi*

    Is it weird to announce in a meeting that someone internal has applied for a job? At our department meeting today, our director told us that “Jane” from another department had applied for an open internal position on our team and that she would be interviewed next week. I can’t think of a reason why we would all need to know, and if I were Jane, I wouldn’t be super happy about that. But maybe it’s normal practice and just not something I’ve run across?

    1. NicoleK*

      I’d appreciate the transparency (if Jane was okay with the info being disclosed and/or if that’s the culture at your work place).

    3. Plain Jane*

      Maybe not specifically revealing who the internal candidate is, but if I was covering the job I’d appreciate the heads up that they are interviewing.

    4. LKW*

      Either the process is expected to be that transparent OR (and this is my inner cynic speaking) this is your “speak now or forever hold your peace” moment.

      Maybe there’s an undercurrent of “she’s moving because she can’t get along in the department”. I have had conversations with folks that purposely did not give people bad reviews on paper because in doing so, the underperformer wouldn’t be eligible to transfer to other departments. The easiest way to get rid of a non-performer or bad fit was to make it clear that they had limited growth potential in that department but they may find success elsewhere in the organization.

      But if you have no explicit knowledge – you don’t have to go find it.

      1. ChachkisGalore*

        That’s where my mind went too (speak now). Though if I try to be less cynical, maybe they’re trying to give current employees an opportunity to register any concerns or support of Jane potentially joining the team?

        From Jane’s perspective, I get that maybe you wouldn’t want that info made public in case she doesn’t get the job, but as team member I strongly think it’s best to have as many peers or anyone who would be working closely with the person in on the hiring process. They might not hold anywhere near as much sway as the actual hiring manager, but I think its good to allow them to weigh in just in case they have any major concerns.

    5. A tester, not a developer*

      My leader approaches people on the team who he thinks may know Jane to get our opinions on whether or not she’d be a good fit. Depending on how well Jane is know, he may end up talking to everyone. But it’s never announced in a team meeting.

    6. Bostonian*

      I think internal transfers are a little different. At my company, you have to have a discussion with/inform your current manager if you’re applying to another area of the company. As a result, it’s not really a privacy issue. But it’s also quite common/part of the company culture to encourage people to move to other positions if it fits with their career goals. My company would rather keep its current talent in another department than lose them to another company.

    7. Greymalk*

      Our company has a policy of announcing that so that if anyone in our department has had previous interactions with the candidate, we can weigh in (usually those are positive comments on a person’s strengths, but once in a rare while it will be an opportunity to bring up a… missing stair situation… that a colleague had experienced and would not otherwise disclose except in the context of it affecting our department’s client relationships if this person had been hired…..)

      1. Greymalk*

        I should add that we are “encouraged to speak privately with the hiring manager if we have recommendations or comments about previous work with the candidate”, not bring it up in front of everyone….

    8. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I typically say that we have an internal candidate that’s applying and then if we hire that internal candidate, I refer to them as “Bob” until the paperwork is signed.

      It makes it easier to refer to the person in that interim when you are talking about them, yet keeps their identity under wraps until everything is solidified.

    9. Seeking Second Childhood*

      That is your invitation to tell your director if you have any history with Jane — positive or negative. If it’s bad enough that you’ll quit if she joins the team, your director wants to know before making hiring decisions.
      Also, if one of you is qualified to do the job and wants it, apply now or you’ll miss the boat.

  24. Anonygoose*

    Has anyone done any online tutoring/teaching English with VIPKid, QKid, or any other similar companies? Are these companies a good way to make some extra money?

    1. Anonysand*

      Not personally, but I work with a former teacher/current stay-at-home mom who LOVES VIPKid. She’s been doing it for a couple of years and regularly posts online about how much she enjoys the flexibility and the work.

      1. Tegan*

        Same, no first-hand experience, but I have an old friend who taught in public elementary schools for ~7 years and this past year transitioned to being a stay-at-home mom and doing VIPKid on the side. She absolutely loves it – she’s ended up making a little bit more money than she expected and she loves the flexibility and the platform.

    2. Maggie May*

      My friend is doing VIPKid and seems to enjoy it. She’s been doing it for months as a bit of side change since she was in a bad car accident and couldn’t work anymore.

  25. wingmaster*

    I’m nervous about my first talk with my Director about my new “Compensation Talk,” and it’s not even until next Thursday! She has my boss and grand boss in this meeting and scheduled it for 15 minutes…that’s enough time to review and discuss right???

    1. Less Bread More Taxes*

      It’s enough time to discuss money and benefits maybe, but not enough to discuss the whys. Can you request at least 30 minutes? Or offer to send them a detailed email explaining your stance beforehand?

  26. Amylou*

    Ok this is a bit of a vent. What is it about office bathrooms and number two?? This week 4 out of 5 stalls in the bathroom had large traces in them at the end of the day when I went to the bathroom. Gross! I have nothing against #2 (I usually have to go mid-morning myself), but how hard is it to (1) put 2-3 sheets of toilet paper in the bowl before you go to prevent the worst or (2) use the toilet brush to remove any traces???? :(

        1. valentine*

          But if you stain the toilet brush, do you just return it to the holder or are you, say, repeatedly flushing in hopes of cleaning the brush? I…can’t do any of that because the smell of other people’s crap (and my own, if I get too close or think about it too long) makes me gag.

          I never heard of paper-first. Spread the good news, y’all.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I mean… it’s a toilet? I don’t know what people expect the inside of a toilet to look like. And I’ve never worked any place that had a brush for employees to use.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Right? I get that it’s a little gross, I’ve never heard of putting paper in the bowl first… Ours has a reasonably good flush that gets most of any….traces.

    4. LilySparrow*

      I have never heard of lining the toilet bowl to prevent poop from touching it. I think people don’t do it because it doesn’t occur to most people that having traces of poop in the toilet is a horrifying issue, or that lining the bowl is even a thing anyone does.

      Perhaps the water pressure in your building is inadequate?

      1. rebelipar*

        Agreed. It had never occurred to me before just now that other people might be grossed out by remnants of poop in a toilet. I mean, it’s a toilet. That’s its job. (I also don’t get the whole putting toilet paper on the seat before sitting down thing. What is on someone’s skin that they think seats are gross? What are they doing in there? But I am just really, really not a germaphobe at all. Maybe ironic being a biologist, but I have just accepted that everything is covered in a layer of germs always and nothing can be done to combat it outside of UV sterilization and laminar flow hoods.)

        A lot of work conflicts boil down to this, though. Just these deep-seated preferences that are unique to each individual, but they aren’t talked about so everyone thinks they are Correct and everyone else is Disgusting.

      2. SophieChotek*

        I have actually heard of people lining a toilet with extra TP to prevent this “evidence”…but honestly on sites devoted to people that suffer from IBS or consistent/frequent diahrrea (sorry), but not just “generally all the time” advice.

        But otherwise, yeah, water pressure should be good. And honestly even if it is kind of gross, I always wait to make sure a flush s effective before I exit…

        1. Splash back*

          I stick a few sheets of paper down because I really dislike it when you drop a big one and it splashes your arse.

        2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          I had never heard of this until last year, but I thought it was advice specific to the plastic portable toilets that don’t flush very well. I would never bother in a context where the toilet is plumbed in and reliably flushes!

          If it’s a huge mess, though, that’s different. Someone did that in our site toilet this week and it was horrible and baffling. I don’t understand the mentality that assumes other people will clean up your gross messes for you.

      4. General Ginger*

        I’ve never heard of this either. IDK, sounds like both a waste of tp and a clog potential.

    5. Cat Fan*

      We have no toilet brush. I have never thought to put toilet paper in the bowl first. Does that really work? I really don’t think you should dwell on it, most people can’t help that sort of thing.

      1. DAMitsDevon*

        People in my office did it (I didn’t, but apparently others did), but then we got an email from HR telling everyone to stop doing that, because whoever was kept putting too much paper in and clogged some of the toilets.

      2. Amylou*

        It does work! Only use 1 or 2 sheets where the poo falls – that amount doesn’t clog the toilet up and prevents the biggest smears.

        Really interesting what people think here btw! I guess the way I think about it is that I wouldn’t want to leave the toilet in a way I wouldn’t leave my own at home. Just because I don’t have to clean it, doesn’t mean I should leave it in a big mess.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Lol wut?

      You out TP in before you go to avoid any trace of pooh?

      That’s too much. It’s a trace of turd in a toilet. I’m not wasting more TP to avoid a possible smear to be avoided.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Are the toilets flushing properly?

      There has to be enough water in the tank and the valve has to open the full amount to allow for enough water pressure to “wash” the bowl.

      A place where I worked had a looong discussion and no action on this easily fixable problem. The audio cues were the sound of water running in the toilet for a long period of time AND the toilet did not sound like it had enough water to flush with once you pulled the lever. (It did not sound like other toilets, it was different.)

      There was a lot of finger pointing at that job until some wise person just fixed the darn toilet. Problem solved.

    8. GermanGirl*

      Here you go, Amylou. This is what someone put up in our office bathroom: https://im-sitzen-pinkeln.de/files/2011/12/Klob%C3%BCrste-Gebrauchsanleitung-falsch-fast-richtig-richtig.jpg
      The texts are: Wrong / almost right / totally right.
      I’m sure you can make an English or language agnostic version quite easily.

      That said, I think there was a letter on AAM a while ago where it was established in the comments that while it’s totally normal in some cultures like Germany and the Netherlands to expect people to use the brush after doing #2 even in public or office bathrooms, it’s somewhat unusual to expect this in the US except at home.

  27. I work on a Hellmouth*

    Welcome to the Hellmouth update. Strap in. It’s a doozy. In an attempt to cut down on length I have continued the new tradition of limiting it only to the most noteworthy/worst things to happen each day, but it’s still a novel.

    Monday: Before even clocking in for the day I discovered that someone on the property has been hunting the squirrels, leaving their tiny, squirrely mortal remains where they fell. At least three squirrel soldiers had been gunned down. After clocking in, I discovered there had been another rash of car break-ins on the property (and a hotwired ATV!). Among the items stolen were two rifles, a pistol, and A DUFFLE BAG FILLED WITH KNIVES. Some may remember a previous update where I detailed a resident following my car after I had left work (alone! in the dark!) and was on my way home, and very angrily confronted me at a red light because I hadn’t had a package for her in the office earlier that day. Well, that just happens to be the same person who THAT particular haul was stolen from. You can imagine how wonderful I felt when I connected those dots.

    That was the point where I decided to scrap Operation: Carefully and Meticulously Search for the Perfect Employment Opportunity in favor of Operation: Find Any Job as Long as it Pays the Minimum I Need to Pay Bills.

    Tuesday: The new leasing consultant, who also happens to secretly be the friend/former tenant of my boss (and who I am 99.99999% sure my boss wants to replace me with) started. Five minutes into working together she had told me that her credit card was stolen Monday and that (stand by for hellacious run on sentence meant to convey the pace and manic-but-chipper tone utilized) she was definitely going to catch them and she already had some pretty good ideas on how to find them and she thought maybe they lived at this place she moved out of in October and she had thought about calling the landlord but then thought maybe not because the landlord might be kind of TRASHY and might tip them off and she was going to GET THEM.

    Guys. She’s scary. I was relieved when my manager took her out for a two hour fancy “welcome lunch.” While they were out I discovered another hidden camera. This one is disguised as a desk fan! And you would think that would be the biggest Hellmouth happening of the day, but you would be wrong. That honor would go to having a resident call us to tell us that some man with a pittbull has been inhabiting the VACANT APARTMENT ABOVE HER FOR OVER TWO MONTHS.

    Did my boss contact the police? No. Did she tell anyone outside of the office? Noooooo. Instead she handed me a can of wasp spray and packed us all into the golf cart so we could go “check it out.” We did run into our courtesy officer on the way over—he likes to drive around the property with his lights on and occasionally whoop his siren—so at least he wound up coming with us. But the whole thing was just a world of no.

    The guy wasn’t there, and neither was the pittbull, but my boss opted not to change the locks on the apartment because she wants to “set a trap” and “catch him.” Which is, I am sure, a completely sane thing. In Bizarro World.

    Wednesday: We learned that the trap yielded no vagrants or dogs. My boss assigned me 10 hours worth of work with the admonishment that it MUST be completed by EoD. (I work 8 hour days and am not allowed to have overtime.) My boss then held a (pointlessly) two hour meeting, after which she assigned me a surprise mandatory (and lengthy) online class to be taken immediately after my assigned lunch hour. She stonily said nothing the several times I told her it was a class I had already taken, then announced that I would be taking the class with the new leasing agent (it kind of seemed like this was only so the new leasing consultant could watch me and make sure I wasn’t working on anything else while the class was going).

    At this point I realized I would only have 4.5 hours of active work time (not continuous) to complete the 10 hours worth of required work and began to scream internally. At the tail end of my lunch break I applied for a part-time cashier position at my local Whole Foods, thinking that I could at least quit the Hellmouth and, if I cut my budget to the bone, eek by while looking for something else. My application was rejected within half an hour. I cried at my desk, but somehow kept anyone from noticing. It was a very low point.

    Thursday: I had to perform all of the monthly closeout duties for the property on a very tight time limit. My boss seemed determined to keep that from happening WHILE simultaneously whipping me to finish them even more quickly. And piling more extraneous same day assignments on me. And also another hour long mandatory class.

    This was also the day that my new coworker gleefully told me about how she is “destroying” the woman she suspects stole her credit card. Her story involved reverse lookup searches, plans to drive by the person’s home that night to get pictures of their car tags, and how she already had a friend sign this person up for “thousands of medical lists.” “I’m going to teach this bitch a lesson” was the last thing she VERY GLEEFULLY said about it… unless you count the cackling that followed.

    Y’all. She’s terrifying.

    After that there was a yelling, swearing maintenance supervisor (who then demanded a maintenance employee’s apartment number so he could go and pound on the dude’s door during his lunch break), more car break-ins (they are now happening on property in broad daylight), my boss discovered a phone that was left in one of the cars that was broken into and then whisper-hissed to the leasing consultant that it happened and that he was NOT to tell me about it OR tell me that is why a group of sheriff deputies would be coming to her office… oh, and I got another impossible load of work for the next day, with instructions to make sure the new leasing consultant was with me as I completed it. Oh! And I found out that the file that mysteriously disappeared from my desk last week (and that I had desperately needed for an assignment that the boss gave me) was, in fact, in the office of my boss. She lied about it, which weirdly made me feel better—at least I’m not crazy and paranoid for thinking she took it, you know?

    Friday: At the time of this writing, we have not been open for long. Before my boss made it in, she called the maintenance supervisor and instructed him to grill me on why I hadn’t walked the move outs that turned in keys at close yesterday (this is not a reasonable thing). And McGruff the Crime Dog informed me that she found the credit card woman’s Facebook, had found her husband, that the woman is a hospice nurse, that no one will let her access their security footage without a police report, and that she was considering calling the woman’s husband and blackmailing him.

    Send. Help.

    1. I work on a Hellmouth*

      Oh! I’ve also learned that my boss is sending out crime notices to every single resident except the one she is targeting. She told the non-scary leasing consultant to delete his email from the system—and ordered him not to tell anyone about it. Fun.

      1. Tigger*

        Jesus. FYI if you live in a state where Total Wine is a thing, they are always hiring and they pay very very well for the work you do.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          I saw a sign for my Target hiring. Their pay isn’t…great? The wording sort of confused me a smidge, though it could be the pounding headache.

          1. Tigger*

            Yeah I live where there are targets every 50 ft and it’s not great pay. I think it’s slightly over minimum wage for the state. I know the total I worked at part time was like $2 above the minimum for cashiers and it was a different pay bracket for full time. It’s not great pay but it’s good for retail and a quick pay check if you need a stop gap

            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              A couple years ago Target raised their internal minimum wage to $12/hour. I had three housemates working there at the time.

                1. Gumby*

                  The Post Office here seems to need workers quite badly. I get about one post card per month or so about open positions, etc. No idea what their minimum wage is but it’s got to be more stable long-term than where you are…

    2. Bee's Knees*

      Dear Lord in Heaven. I think you may have actually, sometime shortly before your first day there or on it, been sucked into an alternate version of reality, and this is your window out to the real world. I’m sorry that it’s come to a point where you can’t take it anymore, but I’m glad you’re trying hard to get out. It stinks that your application didn’t pan out, but that’s probably the store your crazy pants boss shops at. Does she treat the other leasing consultants like that? I know you said something about a guy (that she’s going to suck the brains of) but are there other people besides that?

      1. Bee's Knees*

        Also, have you thought about calling the health inspector and/or fire marshall? Some of that… does not sound up to code.

      2. I work on a Hellmouth*

        She goes after one employee until they are gone (one way or another), then turns on a new employee.
        You know, the ever kind Detective Amy Santiago once asked if I would be willing to share my geographic location in case anyone had location specific advice/Hellmouth escape leads, but I said I was worried about corporate figuring out who I was. I am now scared of much worse things. If anyone is in the capital of a certain Deep South, boot-shaped state in the US and wants to hit me up, feel free to email my username with no spaces at gmail. Because HOLY CRAP.

        1. Grits McGee*

          Oh man, I grew up in that particular capital, and suddenly all of your experience are making a lot more sense. Good luck and godspeed, Hellmouth.

        2. Starfox*

          I used to live in a different city in your state – I spent 10 weeks working in a retail shop at the airport over the busy spring break season. This is the time they’d be hiring, I don’t think there’s many requirements beyond “don’t be a felon,” you have to be able to pass an FBI background check for a badge to go through security. At my airport the shops were all run by a company called The Paradies Shops, but I’m sure there are other vendors. Low pay but might get you through while you keep looking for something better.

          1. Starfox*

            Reading down it appears that you are in a different state than I thought but if you have a spring break season it might still be an option.

        3. Aphrodite*

          In California, the University of California university system uses CraigsList (Jobs Wanted: Admin/Office) to hire part-time and even some full-time help. Getting in on a part-time, temp basis can easily lead to full-time, fully-benefitted positions. You might also call temp agencies around your city to find out if any of them have contracts with the city or county or local schools. If so, that’s a great way to get in.

        5. Karen from Finance*

          Oh good. Really hoping someone can help. I can’t do that much from so far away but will keep an eye out online regardless.

          You’re in my thoughts, Hellmouth, hoping it turns around.

    3. CatCat*

      Ooooohhhh mmmmyyyyy gggggaaaaaawwwwwddddddd.

      Would it be a blessing if she fired you? Like just sllllooowww your work down so she’s just irritated enough to fire you. Do you have enough earnings to get decent unemployment benefits?

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Getting fired before I can line up SOMETHING and just give notice would be an absolute disaster for me. But I have to have something lined up. Otherwise I would just give notice today.

        1. Indie*

          Temp agencies got me out of a real bind when I was in a similar position.

          I don’t know if it’s the same in the states but education supply agencies are always crying out for scribes to help SEN students in class and in exams. You literally just need to be literate, have a clean criminal records check and not be drunk around the kids (Which has happened. True story).

          1. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

            Another plug for temp agency work. Not as much of a sure thing as was years back, but still a good option. I’ve gotten several perm. jobs this way. Seriously, this isn’t really funny anymore, we can all see how badly you are struggling, and want you to be in a reasonably sane, SAFE environment. Definitely have my paws crossed for you.

            1. Pretty sure the police do not approve of trap-setting.

            2. Squirrels… trying hard to be sympathetic but I can’t stand the little suckers. They are very damaging.

        2. Ianthe*

          As much as I enjoy reading your updates, I’m absolutely freakin’ terrified for you! Hellmouth, I don’t have any jobs prospects for you, but would you be open to receiving funds (like via Venmo)? Would you consider quitting ASAP if you had a bit more cushion or would that still not be feasible?

          Maybe Alison can review your cover letter/resume to help your job search?

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Just FYI since I’ve seen it mentioned a few times this week — I don’t offer that as a regular thing. I used to offer it once or twice a year for a few days each time, but haven’t in a few years (and have no plans to any time soon because of lack of time). Sorry about that!

            1. I work on a Hellmouth*

              No worries! I actually already follow all of your resume and cover letter advice in the past, and I’ve always done well job searching! I think right now it’s just combination of not many openings/possible Hellmouth curse, to be honest.

              1. I work on a Hellmouth*

                Uh, that “in the past” should have gone after “job searching”. Sorry, I’m pretty shaky at the moment, and that tends to garble my ability to string words together coherently.

                1. Data Miner*

                  Everyone here is rooting for you and really want to see you escape from this place. It sounds, from an outsider, that the mental struggles you’re dealing with at the Hellmouth are impacting how you are perceived by future employers (maybe not Whole Foods because that was online and Fate being a bitch). But any in person or phone interviews you’re having, you may be coming off not as soundly as if you were in a better mental state. Its sorta like how you have to first love yourself before others will love you. So although I get the money restrictions, you very well may not be successful getting another well paying job with this baggage holding you back. This is all to say that I think the stop-gap job in retail is a good idea short term.

          2. I work on a Hellmouth*

            Oh, I would feel like I was taking advantage of kind people on the internet. I’m able bodied and able to work, I just need to find a place to jump to.

            1. Stranger*

              If you’re worried about ‘taking advantage’, would it suit you better to sell longer Hellmouth anecdotes to the commenters who want to support you? Might be worth considering, to help you if more things go wrong. Best of luck!

      2. CleverName*

        This is actually a solid option, I think. You are in a very weird place, surrounded by very weird people.

        Also, Starbucks offers decent benefits if you work full-time. I enjoyed working at Starbucks.

        I think you need to get out. Fast. As fast as you can.

        2. Danger: GUMPTION AHEAD*

          Trader Joe’s and Costco, if you have them, are also pretty good for pay and benefits

          1. Treecat*

            Yes, Trader Joe’s employees are the only grocery store employees I’ve ever met who tell me they love their jobs. Costco is also known for a decent working environment and relatively good pay.

            I hope you can get out soon, Hellmouth. :(

        3. Emily S.*

          I’ve also worked at Starbucks and can agree that the pay and benefits are good. You just have to be OK with smelling like coffee all the time. ;-)

    4. Shark Whisperer*

      My personal theory is that the squirrels were responsible for the break in. The three dead squirrels were the victims of squirrely gang violence.

    5. Danger: GUMPTION AHEAD*

      Your updates are the only think I read in the Friday Open Thread, but, as much as I enjoy them, I would give them up for you to GTFO of that place. Sending good thoughts your way!

      On another note, every update that involves squirrels is extra crazy

      1. Hopeful Future Accountant*

        I come to these updates too. But I keep hoping when I come the update will say “I finally got out!”

        Good luck, Hellmouth! I’m rooting for you!

    6. ISuckAtUserNames*

      Screw Whole Foods, there have to be other options. Costco? Target? I work part time at Target as a second job and it’s not a bad gig. I’m not in the south but my store is always hiring, though I don’t think you can ever count on full time hours.

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Well, the local WF pays the (honestly, just under the) amount I would need to eek by if I cut my budget to the bone. The Target here definitely does not. Trader Joe’s might, though, so I need to check their on my lunch break.

        1. ISuckAtUserNames*

          Good luck! I also second (third?) the temp agency suggestion. Sign up with as many as you can find. It may not be glamorous work, but gotta be better than the hellmouth.

        2. ideasoflight*

          Costco generally pays pretty well I think! But yeah, this has taken a firm turn into GET OUT, even by this industry’s fucked up standards. Like… literally even getting out to another property short-term would probably be better than this? Property management is never not bees but like, even by leasing standards this is BAD.

          1. ideasoflight*

            Like… sorting this into two piles, the tenant-based stuff is… a lot but it’s not out of the specs of what I expect for that industry? The management stuff though is like… no, get out now. CAMERAS. This new coworker. No no no.

        4. Danger: GUMPTION AHEAD*

          Do you have any HOA associations that manage properties (see link in name if it worked). It would be somewhat same work dealing with crazy HOA boards, but at least less likely to involve squirrel hit squads

        5. Damn it, Hardison!*

          As a former Trader Joe’s employee, I will say it was by far the best non-professional job I ever had. Nice managers, nice co workers, good pay and hours. Best of luck!

        6. Subscribing to all comments*

          try searching companies websites individually for open positions, (facilities management, contracting, customer service) — go for big industry (hotel, pharmacetucals, etc) or big employers (hospitals, universities)

    7. Nita*

      OMG. So much crazy in one place. You’d think there’s no crazy left over in the entire U.S. of A., because it’s all hanging out at the Hellmouth. Wishing you a quick escape, and no more hearing from the boss ever again.

    8. Bookwormish51*

      I, too, have relied on temp agencies in a pinch. It can be slow at the beginning, but if you get decent reviews, you’ll get more jobs. If you take the test at one agency and don’t do well enough, switch to another. But mostly just get out. Good luck.

    9. LKW*

      This is craziness. Obviously you need to get out but damn you could write the newest cable TV series based off of these folks.

    10. kittymommy*

      WTEF!!!!(That e= everloving). Hell if you are in north central FL I’ll try to get you a job here! These people are off their rockers and are we sure that the landlord isn’t the one stealing? Or the “security” guy?

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Alas, I am in Louisiana. But boy do I wish I was elsewhere…

        I don’t know if stealing is happening, but I DO know that my boss disappears on 4-6 hour shopping trips “getting supplies” (that we don’t need) “for the property.”

    11. revueller*

      if you have a paypal or ko-fi, i’d happily donate to give you more of a cushion while you job-search. if anything, i want to “tip” for these incredible updates, because holy crap.

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        You are so kind, but I would feel like I was taking advantage. Like I said above, I just need to find a place to jump to. Something HAS to come through soon.

        1. Data Miner*

          People set up Patron accounts for less value add than what you’re providing. If you had a blog or a podcast, people would donate for your your continued output. Don’t devalue what your posts have contributed to AAM readers, and consider setting something up :-)

          1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

            Well, I guess that it wouldn’t be like I was twisting anyone’s arm or holding them hostage. I guess I could either give more indepth treatments to the Hellmouth’s greatest hits, or tell some of the stories that get cut for time or credibility straining. I guess I could consider/look into it, even if it was just for blowing off steam/funsies on my end…

    12. Kendra*

      I think you should start a Patreon where you tell stories about the Hellmouth to help you eke along until you find something better, a lot of people here would probably be interested!

        1. [insert witty username here]*

          Ok for some reason I was thinking blog when you probably MEANT podcast (or similar)….

      2. Office Gumby*

        I second the Patreon account. People will pay to get all the Hellmouth updates you don’t post here. Don’t shy away from this idea, because you aren’t awkwardly accepting donations, you’re actively earning them as a non-fiction author.

        1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

          Enough people have brought this up/emailed me about it that I’m actively looking into setting one up. If nothing else, I could have a place to give full details to things like the Revenge Poop story, right?

    13. Parenthetically*

      Jeezy Creezy, Hellmouth!!

      Weird suggestion: look for entry level surveyors’ assistant jobs at engineering/surveying firms! My husband works for an engineering firm (we live in the South/Midwest) and their entry level is something like $17/hr for someone with a high school diploma or GED doing basic surveying work. On the job training, no experience required kind of thing, and the pay is decent enough that it might keep body and soul together longer than TJ’s or Costco!

      1. Parenthetically*

        Also I am dying for someone in journalism in The City Where You Live to find out about your stories and do a series of blind items… or a serious exposé!

    15. Four lights*

      Yikes! Good luck. Here’s another vote for temp agency. I also wonder if you might qualify for assistant manager positions. Also, I think some retail night work/inventory/unloading jobs pay more. And for retail jobs, I find the application process can sometimes be hit or miss. I’ve spent an hour what appeared to be psych evaluations that were total garbage.

    16. BadWolf*

      Instead she handed me a can of wasp spray and packed us all into the golf cart so we could go “check it out.”

      So…this wasp spray was the weapon of defense? Or plausible deniability (we heard there were wasps here!)? Or there were wasps as well as a potentional squatter?

      Maybe you could suggest that the fan spy cam be moved to squatter apartment. All innocent like.

      Is there a way you could be let go and acquire unemployment while you job search?

      Some additional job ideas (feel free to disregard):

      -Temp admin at an accounting firm (tax season!!)
      -Driving school bus (I know there’s driving training required, but at least around my parts, they are desperate for drivers)
      -Driving a big rig — also desperate in my area and doing on the job draining. If you can handle the Hellmouth, you can handle a semi, I think. But you mentioned elderly relatives so the schedule may not be compatible.

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        The wasp spray was for defense.

        If I got let go for cause (which is what my boss seems to be trying to engineer), I would not be eligible for unemployment. So I would be dooooooooooooomed.

        All very creative suggestions, but driving and big rigs would possible be more dangerous for me than the Hellmouth, lol.

        1. kittymommy*

          When you are looking don’t forget about local and state governments. Mine is always hiring and everyone I know never seems to think about them. Also if they deal with any housing (low income or first time home buyers) your housing knowledge may come in handy.

        2. Hallowflame*

          I don’t know, based on your latest update, it sounds like she may be looking into setting you up for a poor performance dismissal (piles and piles of work with completely unreasonable deadlines, withholding materials necessary to complete assignments, etc. ), which could leave you eligible for unemployment.
          Or maybe both! It is the Hellmouth, after all…
          (Please take this assessment with a handful of salt. I’m only speaking from personal experience as the employee being let go in a neighboring state where the qualifications for unemployment may be a little different. I have no background in HR or hiring/firing.)

        3. Slartibartfast*

          Being let go for “poor performance” is not necessarily “for cause” in the eyes of unemployment. Burden of proof is on the employer. If the worst happens, file.

    17. Anonandon*

      OMG OMG OMG – you need to quit, now, today. Even if you can’t afford to. This is so nuts! Seriously! Can you apply for a cashier job at Target/Walmart/any large retailer? At least get a couple of bucks until you can land your next gig? What about temp work?
      Hang in there, Hellmouth. I’m sending good vibes your way.

    18. My Brain is Exploding*

      Try car rental agencies. You are used to working with crazy people. This will help. If you can upsell, you can make some good money.

      1. Back to Work. Work, Work, Work*

        My second job is as a Walmart-type store. I wrote “Walmart-type” because I hate Walmart, I’ve heard the horror stories about what it can be like to work at Walmart, and the retailer at which I work has a lot in common with Walmart Supercenters but is much better managed. That job has helped me keep body and soul together during layoffs and lulls between other employment. It’s a 24/7 store, so they and you can be flexible with schedules. And of course, there’s an employee discount on most items; even a 10% discount helps when money’s tight. Yes, you’d deal with customers. However, 99.9999 percent of them will be much better behaved than at the Hellmouth.

    20. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I’m just really bemused as to how your boss has rigged up so many cameras. What do you do with them when you find them?

      Also, your skill in finding them makes me think that maybe a job at a security firm would suit you. Finding spying devices, noting hazards, spotting weirdly dangerous people…

        1. Bee's Knees*

          I got in trouble at the paper for doing that, cause I looked at the lady sitting across from me. She thought it was hilarious and about the third time she noticed me doing it, she spat out her diet coke.

    21. Elizabeth West*

      This reminds me of that old blog, Wide Lawns and Narrow Minds–but it’s the hellmouth version, obviously. I hope you get the hell out of there soon.

    22. Nerdy Library Clerk*

      Yegad.

      Any Costcos in your area? I understand they pay well, at least by the standards of retail-type jobs, and offer benefits. (In fact, they may pay better than the job I currently have.) Granted, that still might not be enough.

      Temp agencies? I did data entry temping for a bit ages ago. It paid pretty well. And I’m sure higher level office temping pays even better.

      I’m not sure if you’re more likely to get fired or arrive for work one day and find a smoking ruin with WWIII happening on the grounds of what used to be the apartment complex.

    23. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      FACEPALM-Y UPDATE ON TODAY’S IMPOSSIBLE WORK ASSIGNMENTS: After killing myself to complete all of the work that absolutely had to be completed and handed off to my boss today today today… well, my boss was gone for 3 hours, came in for about 15 minutes, and then went home for the day. Never even asked for it. Just going to go laugh slightly hysterically in the corner, don’t mind me.

      2. Dr. Anonymous*

        Oh, dear. My sympathies. Are you also checked in to civil service? I mean, Large State University is right there.

    24. JustAskingForAFriend*

      You know where frequently needs help is assisted living facilities. I am fairly new to the whole thing but it sounds like you work at a housing community/apartments, yes? So what about working in marketing/sales for an assisted living facility? They have regulations that would protect you (as they do to protect their residents). Or what about being an ombudsman for the state, or working in some sort of office that works for renters rights and the like? When reviewing applications, I rely on the “career summary” and cover letter moreso than the resume and love when people point out things they work on that don’t have a place on the traditional resume format but speak volumes about what you’ve been through. Like, you could include something like, “Master of balancing community maintenance requests, resident move-ins and outs, and unique conflicts of working in low-income housing management.” I swear I’ve personally learned more waiting tables and working retail than the “professional” jobs I’ve worked and am in now!

    25. Not So NewReader*

      I see your determination not to accept “too much” help, whatever “too much” means to you.

      One of many life’s cruel ironies that I have found is that when we refuse to accept help too often, we end up painted into a corner where we have to accept help. I met my corner when my husband passed. Swallow your pride and say yes to people more often. If you do not learn to say yes more often your setting can get worse.

      Let the good people around you help you. You are smart. You are witty. You can write. I read your posts, and while it is entertaining somewhat, there is a large part of me saying, “OMG, this is a fellow human being working in a cesspool of a place.”

      See here’s the thing about accepting help, there is no need to feel shame/weakness/embarrassment because the tide will turn and then it will be your turn to pay it forward. Can I just say that opportunity to pay it forward can come up pretty fast! ;) Look at the world around you with fresh eyes and think.

    26. Is my boss here?*

      Temping is, well, temping, but back when I was between jobs I did it and once I established that I was reliable, I got enough work to stay afloat and keep a little $ ahead while looking for the Real Thing. A staff job is best, even part time, but if your situation is desperate enough to cry over a p/t cashier job, it may be an alternative.

    27. Jean (just Jean)*

      Total upvote for everything NotSo New Reader said. Sometimes we have to accept help. It doesn’t have to be forever and we will get to pay it forward and it’s okay if the “repayment” is not in the exact same format. There are a gazillion ways to lend a hand to or lift the spirits of another human being.

      Sometimes religious institutions offer short-term or interest-free loans to people in a tough place. If this feels comfortable to you, check it out. If not, ignore the suggestion. Ditto this one: If your personal logistics allow this flexibility, would you be willing to sign on as a live-in paid housekeeper, groundskeeper, personal assistant, or household manager? Are there any resorts or camps or estates or etc. (animal shelters? horse stables?) needing live-in workers? Again, not for forever, just long enough to help you get the H outta Hmouth and build a bridge towards your next sane & stable situation. They should have good security though or else be so far from your present location that none of your current associates would bother to visit or worse.

      Good luck. Stay in touch with all folks you know and like *away from work*. G-d forbid, but it might be wise to have caring local people know your expected schedule and location(s). Take care of yourself.

    28. Jersey's mom*

      Check out the local electric utility. They may be hiring now for seasonal eter reader employees. Also for their customer service departments. Not the greatest jobs, but sound’s better than what you’re going through.

      I (and many of my friends) are thinking of you and sending zen hugs.

  28. TheAssistant*

    Any advice for someone trying to transition from sales to another role? My girlfriend is stuck in a toxic environment doing group sales for a theater company, and she’s been so demoralized in a very long job search by her lack of offers. I think she’s probably not looking at the right industries/jobs that would have transferable skills, or she’s not recognizing her own transferable skills. So far she’s looked at theaters/arts (even in a major city, that’s a tiny and competitive job pool) and customer service in tech startups (slightly larger pool, but everyone wants to work in tech these days, plus her job is very analog). We’re both losing our minds.

    2. Some ideas*

      Is she interested in sales or biz development? If she wants to continue that path, she can try for biz dev coordinator roles in whatever industries interests her/with jobs available in the city you live in.

      What about banquet coordinator or something similar for a restaurant?

      1. TheAssistant*

        One of the biggest problems is she doesn’t want to be in a sales-y or biz dev role – which is super hard given her background is all interfacing between theaters and the public to sell things.

        1. SophieChotek*

          So what is she looking for? I get it can be heard given a specific background to get pigeon-holed into something you do not want to do.

          1. TheAssistant*

            I hear that. I think she has the opportunity with this next job to escape a pigeon-hole, and I worry that if she lands herself in the arts again that’s where she’ll stay, forever, and I don’t think she’ll like it.

            Every time I ask I get “I want to make decent money, work 9-5, have health insurance, and not work with the general public”. She doesn’t like sales for this reason – the tour groups and regular clients are usually fine, the random one-off groups are a nightmare for her. She doesn’t like events planning. She has a master’s degree in Arts Administration and thinks it’s some kind of qualification.

            I’m a pretty analytical thinker and I’ve always been able to pinpoint exactly what it is I want and don’t want from a particular job and my career, so this is honestly driving me nuts. What she wants is so many jobs, but also so few jobs, and I don’t know how to help when she complains she’s not getting anywhere in her search. Her cover letter and resume are great, and she interviews well. I think she’s looking in the wrong places, but I’m not sure what the right places are.

            1. SophieChotek*

              Could she not do the less customer-facing side of the Arts? Like….grant writing? EA? Office manager? I get her desires….I want that too, LOL, but get its too vague…and also have a background in the arts.

              Where are you located? There are 2 or 3 major networking/1 day seminar events in my area specifically for the performing arts. Could she attend that just get some ideas?

              For that matter, what about non-profit that give out grants? Like a state arts board or a local non-profit that focuses on the arts…

              Really randomly throwing some stuff out there with little thought…so apologize if this is all lame…

            2. ArtsAdmin*

              Ugh, as someone in arts admin, what she wants is so so normal. So many arts admin&management jobs, especially in smaller organizations, just require so much and give so little that “a 9-5 with benefits and enough pay that I can, I dunno, go on vacation every couple years” sounds like an absolute pipe dream when you’re inside it, and it can be really hard to go from feeling so demoralized with your career prospects to actually imagining what your transferable skills are.

              If she’s doing group sales at a theater, obviously she has sales experience. But she also probably coordinates between a lot of departments, develops or works on events, and works with schools/in education. Depending on the size of the organization she might also have experience in some parts of the marketing world, curriculum development, accounting, fundraising, or database building and management. She’s probably organized and has good people skills. My guess is she would do well in something like project management, which is obviously a job that exists in a huge range of settings. If she wants to continue to use her arts admin degree, she could look at the foundation/philanthropic arm of corporations, or at other grant-making organizations (state arts board, foundations, etc.), or at arts services organizations (ticketing systems like PatronManager are almost entirely remote work, but depending on where she is, there could be other arts-adjacent-but-with-money organizations available to her).

            3. Is my boss here?*

              A friend of mine has a background in arts administration, and it was her toehold into fundraising. She’s been doing that for over 20 years now and does well. She does some events, but not with the general public, and she’s mostly grantwriting and business mgmt. for nonprofits now.

    3. Another Librarian*

      One thing I have done with mature students who are getting ready to graduate is have them write down all their work related skills. All of them, ignoring the type of work they did. For example, if you work in a medical office scheduling appointments than you have experience in customer service, scheduling and dealing with sensitive information.

      And then look at that list and see what sort of jobs might apply for her skills. That seems to help people if they can disconnect their “duties” from their “job.”

    4. Sam.*

      This is a long shot, but are there any universities near you? I’ve known a couple of people from the theater world who transitioned over to various aspects of higher ed. One helps coordinate internships, among other things, and is the person who works with the various arts orgs in town to set up internship opps for students at the university. She had customer service skills, connections to the local arts world, and experience interfacing between different organizations, so it worked well for her.

      I worked in student affairs in higher ed for a long time, and one thing I recommended to students who had no idea what kind of work they wanted to do was to look at a wide range of job postings and make note of their gut reactions to certain responsibilities and tasks outlined. I know several of them found it helpful in articulating what kinds of work they did (or emphatically did not) find interesting, which then helped them narrow the fields they were looking at. If your gf hasn’t already tried something like that, it might be worth a go. Good luck to you both!

      1. San Juan Worm*

        The “transportation demand management” section of my organization regularly hires folks with sales backgrounds. The jobs involve encouraging people to commute differently — to try transit, carpool, vanpool and so on. Some TDM jobs involve working with HR departments at local companies to encourage them to offer transit/carpoool/vanpool benefits to employees. There are TDM jobs in most metro areas, commonly in the government and nonprofit sectors. But there are private companies in the TDM space, too, like vanpool and ride-sharing companies. Some larger employers in major metro areas even have on-staff TDM coordinators that help their employees with commute options. The jobs involve persuading people to commute differently, so sales skills are valuable.

  29. Bee's Knees*

    Y’all. There was a literal mob at work yesterday. There were no torches, no pitchforks, but there was a mob all the same.

    See, there was an issue with payroll. It was right when it left on Monday, but there was an issue when it was transmitted to the system that does the checks. No one got their overtime pay, or any other extras.

    It was so fun.

    Have you ever had the sudden realization that your head is attached to your body, and been profoundly thankful? It’s never something I’ve thought to be thankful for before.

    I had just walked in, and was booting up my email, just going about my morning. Suddenly, three supervisors were in my office. No one, then boom. I didn’t know they could move that fast. They asked if I knew what was going on, and I saw the emails rolling in.

    There’s about 175 people that didn’t get paid correctly. That’s a lot of mad. I don’t think the phone stopped ringing all day. When the supervisors came in, people were waiting. They did a really good job to deflect the maddest of the employees off of me, which I really appreciate.

    I only had one person be straight up rude to me, and she’s done it before, so it was not surprising, just offensive. Girlfriend needs an attitude check. Most people just wanted to know what was going on, and that they were going to get paid.

    We got it resolved fairly quickly, and I printed out info about what’s happening next. I posted them on every possible route to my office. Inside the plant, there’s a window in the supervisors’ office so they can see what’s going on, and I pressed one of the papers to the window so they could see. They all about came out of their seats reaching for it.

    Hopefully, everyone will be paid after today. We’re switching to a new timekeeping system in a couple of months, and someone said they worked at another plant that did, and no one got paid for two weeks. I told my boss if that happens, I won’t be here. I’ll be somewhere far, far away, in a wig and sunglasses, hiding

      1. No Tribble At All*

        I don’t mean this as blaming you, Bees. But I understand why there was a mob! What a mess.

        1. Bee's Knees*

          No, I got it. Payroll isn’t something to be messed with, at all. It was not a happy time. If it had been my fault, I would have locked myself in my office and been crying hysterically. Well, maybe not, but there would have been tears.

    3. SophieChotek*

      Glad to hear your bosses tried to help.
      Sorry you had to put up with it.

      Had payroll issues happen at my job; never fun. (Even just to be on the receiving end of it.)

    5. nonegiven*

      They did something similar at DH’s work. They changed from monthly to every two weeks and changed how the payroll is done. I think they are using a service, now. The first direct deposit was a week late. Nobody is happy.

      I looked up the statute, it said they have to be paid within 11 days of the end of the pay period and the employer has an additional 3 days to comply. It said days, not business days. They were within the 14 days by one day.

      They have issued a schedule for the pay periods and deposits. The pay periods used to vary from 20 working days to 23. Now it’s 10 days per pay period. They are taking out half of the monthly non tax deductions from each check and they’ll have one extra check this year, in August, that will only have taxes deducted. Nobody is happy.

      They issued a check for 3 days of last year on the old system in the middle of January and only took FICA out of it but they included that income and FICA deduction on his 2018 W2.

      They also changed from sick pay plus vacation to PTO in one bucket and changed how it accrues. They used to accrue 8 hours of sick pay per month and get all of their vacation days added in January. Now it’s all PTO and is accruing per paycheck. I’m not sure he is still getting what he had before. He was supposed to get 20 days vacation this year and accrue 12 days of sick pay. I still have not seen a check stub because they are now issuing them on the server or something.

    6. Bee's Knees*

      Late breaking update – It gets worse guys. I didn’t think it could, but it did. They overpaid people to a total of about $14k. Which now has to come back out. Monday is going to be so great.

    7. Hamburke*

      I messed up a payroll a couple weeks ago (I entered and closed it but didn’t submit it and then left early for the day) and boy was my phone ringing! So sorry you had to deal with it this week especially since it wasn’t your fault!

  30. Forkeater*

    Any tips for improving your attitude at work? I do have a very good job and my boss treats me well, but this is not the work I want to be doing. I’m looking, and also hopeful something internal will open up that suits me better – I want to put my best foot forward, attitude wise, while I wait for other opportunities to arise. I thought I was doing better this year, but this week my boss asked me to do something innocuous and I snarled at him. We talked about it later and I think we’re good but I don’t want it to happen again.

    I think it comes down to me not respecting my boss or his point of view, he’s highly overpaid and underworked, frequently misuses terminology that applies to my area of expertise, and despite this is sure to be at work all hours even when we’re closed for bad weather and can all easily work remotely. We’re very different people – however he doesn’t have a problem with me being different – gives me a lot of freedom to pursue projects that interest me, allows me flexibility in my hours, etc. – so he really doesn’t deserve my bad attitude.

    Sorry for the wall of text – all this is to say my job is good, just not right for me, and how can I be sure to stay positive as I look for opportunities elsewhere?

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Remind yourself that this is temporary- it’s just a job, not a calling. Search for a new position and focus on finding the right fit. This is what kept me sane when I reached my limit, realized by boss didn’t really respect me or my qualifications, and there was no room for growth (despite what I had been promised when I accepted the role). It made a HUGE difference to know that I was going to get out, and I just treated it as a 40-hr/week job, rather than getting stressed/trying to more/etc.

      1. meh*

        I hate to say it, but “room for growth” is just something they say, not always guaranteed. What interviewer would say “actually we are looking for someone to do X and Y for the foreseeable future with no growth opportunities?” Even if they were hiring you for a month long gig and you’re leaving in 30 days, they wouldn’t state that.

        It’s like asking someone “how are you?” in greeting. You’re expecting that they say that they’re fine/good and keep it moving.

        1. The Rain in Spain*

          The distinction in my case is that they new I had the qualifications for the licensing exam and that I was going to take it (with their approval). The team was new and expanding, they could have done something if they wanted to, they just didn’t. And that’s okay, I eventually left. They just got a lot more of my time than I should’ve given them.

        3. Karen from Finance*

          I have had an interviewer be honest with me about that, actually. They went on and on about how the comprarny was so great nobody ever quit, and I pushed a bit on that point and the admitted “yes, that also means it’s rare that we get vacancies in higher level jobs, so if you are looking for career growth opportunities in the short term it might not be the right fit”. As someone in my lower 20’s I appreciated the honesty because it would have set be back a few years in my expected path.

      2. Emily S.*

        I second this, the part about the job being just a job. It is a means to an end. It can pay your bills, while you look for something better.

        Personally, I tend to identify as who I am outside of work. My job doesn’t define me. I think it helps me to have a positive view of who I am as a person, not an employee. I’m a happy person, because I get fulfillment from stuff outside of work.

        Obviously I’m only speaking for myself here — but I thought this perspective may be of interest.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      You need to get your attitude buttoned up ASAP especially if you’re looking for something internal as the first person getting called is going to be your boss to get his opinion. I might be overreaching here but I’d bet your boss picks up that you have zero respect for him and despite this, he still encourages your professional growth. Perhaps start thinking of your boss as your ally in your job search instead of a target for contempt.

      1. Forkeater*

        Thanks, I needed to hear this. I know my attitude needs to change like yesterday, I’m trying to find tools to help me change it.

        But your comment is helpful in making me think about my boss’s feelings. I want to be a “nice” person and don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings – maybe it will help me to improve my behavior if I concentrate on trying to make sure I’m careful of his feelings (even though he hides them very well).

        1. T. Boone Pickens*

          Happy to help. I certainly sympathize with you as I too, am still quick to snap at folks despite working on it for years and I’m not really much of a team player (thank goodness I’m in sales). The book Emotional Intelligence 2.0 really helped me out a lot.

          1. NACSACJACK*

            Thank you T.Boone. I need it too. Just got my worst rating ever because i snapped 5 months ago.

    3. INeedANap*

      I’ve found a few tools helpful in changing my perspective/attitude:

      One, whenever I think negatively, I forcibly redirect and change that thought. So, if I caught myself thinking Boss was overworked/underpaid, instead of indulging that, I will say: “Boss has been really supportive of me, and I appreciate him” if I can say it aloud. If I can’t speak aloud, I will open up a word document and type it out. Every. Single. Time. This is tedious, so tedious, and I found it was happening so often it was interfering with my work to redirect my thoughts! Which really highlighted how negative I had allowed my thinking to become and how much energy I was wasting.

      Two, you can sense when your mood is turning sour. I would bet that snarling at your boss didn’t come from nowhere; you had probably been feeling some low-level bitterness or resentment simmering all day. So identifying when your mood starts to turn, and finding a way to resolve it is important. Take a quick walk, look at a picture of kittens, whatever. But identify, acknowledge, and resolve those feelings as soon as they begin.

      Three, while a bad work environment can seep into your non-work life and poison it, so can a stressful non-work life seep into a work environment. What’s your life outside work look like? Are you practicing self-care? Are you happy and healthy generally? Could you de-stress outside of work more effectively to keep things from carrying over day to day?

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Face every day with the question, “What great thing can I do today that would look wonderful on my resume or make for great interview conversation material?”
      Stop working for your boss and start working for that good-looking resume of yours.

  31. Millenial Lizard Person*

    People who do requirements documents, compliance / conformance specs– anything where your job is to ensure that something aligns with some other documentation: do you feel like your work is important? Do you find it fulfilling?

    I’ve recently transferred into a position that is turning out to be much more documentation than I thought. I’m not designing anything, and I don’t have the experience / background to really write the requirements. So I’m just emailing people back and forth to make sure they conform to other documents that are being written, and I feel like I’m doing make-work. How can I convince myself that documenting the state of other documents is important?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I truly believe there are personality types who get joy out of this work, like they derive personal satisfaction in making sure that i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed and everything is in good order. Bless those people. I am not one of them, I get satisfaction from the opportunity to be creative, so I’m just not a great fit for compliance oriented jobs. I’ve had several and I can usually just try to pay my dues / muster up enthusiasm about being diligent and not be a drain on the team – and get out of the role as quickly as possible.

    2. meh*

      I actually wouldn’t mind this. It sounds easy enough to have a checklist of requirements and make sure that whatever someone sends in matches these requirements, or am I missing something?

    3. Trojan Maker*

      Document Control Specialist here.
      -Document alignment is very important.
      -Do you have a primary regulatory body with publications your can reference or an overarching document control policy that spells out alignment requirements?

    4. Mockingjay*

      This is a large part of my job and I enjoy it (most days).

      What I have learned is to separate important docs from what I call “checkbox” documents. All are required, but some are more important in terms of content or visibility. Those are the ones to spend time on. I automate as much as possible: tracking system, templates, master requirements, central repository (sharepoint or share drive). I also mentor and teach people the “why” of these documents – how these fit into a bigger, overall picture of the project.

      A lot of our work used to be produced by separate teams: engineering, management, etc. We are now working new processes in which each document requires input from all teams, and map to other documents. This is a BIG change for the team. The end result is a clearer picture of the entire program. It’s taking a lot of training and cajoling to get there, in the meantime!

    5. Sleepytime Tea*

      I write business requirements documents as a large portion of my job. It is very important and… mostly fulfilling. There are days I tire of it. Sometimes I want to be doing the “actual” work. But if I’m just mindlessly throwing a document together I’m actually probably not doing a good job. I’m a business analyst. I am supposed to be investigating, analyzing risks and potential compliance issues, etc. I should be talking to people and asking the questions that they haven’t thought about yet. My value is not in gathering what people already know or think they know. My value is in digging in and finding root cause, teasing out what people need versus what they are asking for, etc. When I do a great job, I catch all sorts of things that prevent issues down the road and ensure that what the developer is creating meets people’s needs and exceeds them. When I do that, I definitely find fulfillment.

      There is some stuff that feels repetitive and boring, absolutely. But if really all you are doing is e-mailing people to ask them to make sure that their document matches someone else’s document… then it sounds like you might be missing something in the purpose of the process. I would start by trying to get an understanding of the “why” behind what you are doing.

    6. A tester, not a developer*

      As someone who often tries to piece together what was actually designed/tested/ implemented from a mish mash of conflicting documents, I find your job to be incredibly important.

      The only thing worse than non-conforming documents is when one is just missing because the person who was supposed to write it didn’t think it was that important. It’s cool that you know how this thing works backwards and forwards and that you think it was a ‘minor change’ but that doesn’t help me two years down the road when you’ve transferred to another team and I’m trying to wrap my head around why this thing is behaving weirdly, Wayne.

      …sorry, guess I needed to vent. :)

  32. Myrin*

    Hey guys, I’ve been wondering what you think of this social media post I cam across this morning.

    I feel like the first guy’s heart is in the right place but he’s being very dramatic and ignoring the fact that in most cases, it isn’t wise to trash-talk your (prospective) employer for everyone to see.
    I’m not sure about the second person, though – are they referring to to the thing where an employer can’t forbid employees to talk about working conditions? Because it seemed to me that that’s what the Slate article is talking about but no matter how long I’ll be reading this site, I’ll never get all your acronyms straight or be able to actually tell you what they mean written-out. I found “your right to complain about your job” to be strange phrasing but I’m not quite sure regarding the content (other than the fact that the article didn’t really seem to support this commenter’s position overly much? Or, at least, the poster seems to have left out some critical details.).

    1. Murphy*

      Yeah, if you’re going to complain about your job on social media your boss shouldn’t be able to find it/see it.

      1. ISuckAtUserNames*

        And maybe don’t call your job “fuck ass” when you haven’t even spent one day in it yet. Does it even fall into complaining about your job if you haven’t even started it yet? Can’t really blame the employer for being pissed off about that one.

    2. Indie*

      Social media firings are not because the boss doesnt expect you to never complain in any way. You are expected to show basic common sense and judgement though. No one wants to work with the social media drama vortex. Can you imagine managing someone who complains about their coworkers online?

    3. Lilysparrow*

      How can you have a complaint about working conditions when you haven’t started the job yet?

      I think saying “I don’t want this job” in public is really stupid. Social media isn’t some secret fourth dimension where nothing is real.

      She said on Twitter — not a friends-only FB post! Not a private text message! A public Tweet with her name on it – that she thinks it’s a “FA job” and indicated by her multiple thumbs-downs that she is unhappy about the very idea of working there.

      If she was sitting in a restaurant, or walking down the street, and her boss overheard her, it’s the same thing.

      Can you imagine trying to manage someone who shows up on Day 1 with that kind of attitude?

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      You have a protected right to discuss your working conditions and complain about them, but that’s not what’s happening here. You do have a right to complain about your job and say you think it sucks on social media, and your boss has every right to see that and decide that they don’t want to employ someone with a bad attitude, poor judgment, etc. Especially in an at-will state like where I live.

  33. Not Maeby But Surely*

    People who have had the realization that 1) your manager doesn’t like you for some reason, and 2) that the employee’s culture fit within a team is just not going to improve, do you have any suggestions to make it easier/better to tolerate while you job hunt?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I guess this would depend, do you have a sense of whether your boss doesn’t like you *personally* or whether they’re not happy with your work? If it’s just a personality missmatch, it’s kind of on both of you to just be professional and there’s not as much you can do if your boss … isn’t doing that. TBH if you’re looking anyway, I might address it directly with them, as in “I get the sense you’re not very satisfied with my performance, is there anything I can be doing differently?”

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        Seems to be less performance related and more personality differences. I have never been told/warned/given feedback that my performance is below expectations, and I know I’m at least average in terms of production compared to the rest of the team. I have no problem working with personality differences; there are lots of them among my colleagues and bosses, but it seems like I’m being frozen out of communications and such. I gave the situation the benefit of the doubt for a long time, but there’s now been enough slights that it’s hard to think it’s *not* intentional.

        1. London Calling*

          I can identify 100% with your last sentence and whether it is or isn’t intentional, the effect of all the slights on you is the same (there’s a great deal on the net about the effects of ostracism at work). What I have done is a) start my CV b) print off a load of advice from AAM and other sites about planning a job hunt and working out what it is I want from my next job c) setting a date for the start of the job hunt and d) on a day to day basis sitting at my screen and thinking ‘Yup, a/holes. You keep laughing and having your mean girl whispering sessions. Good luck with finding someone as good as me to do this job, because you know what? you’ll be very, VERY lucky if you do.’ What really cheers me up is the thought of my manager’s face when I hand her the resignation letter.

    2. Anonny*

      I was in that situation up until very recently. My boss and grandiose didn’t like me at all because I’m reserved and they really aren’t; they couldn’t be professional about it, so I had to go.

      I got through it for a while by aligning my lunch and my breaks so that I would have as much time as possible free from my manager’s presence, by having headphones with calming music, and by enjoying the fact that I was getting praise for my work and friendship from people not in my team. I took a few long weekends and Wednesday holidays too, when the stress built up. Ultimately, I left without a job lined up, but I was lucky that I could do that.

  34. roisin54*

    This isn’t a question so much as venting some frustration.

    I work at a large public library located in a heavily trafficked part of my city. On Sunday, while I was at the public desk during my shift, someone not on staff got into the staff only area where they proceeded to go into offices with unlocked doors and root around for valuables. Including my office (which was only unlocked because one of my office-mates accidentally left it unlocked the previous day.) They broke into my desk but fortunately weren’t able to get anything of mine, although they did damage the locking mechanism. They did get away with a laptop that was in a manager’s office.

    Obviously I’m really freaked out by this even though they didn’t successfully steal anything from me. Someone was in my office that should not have been, and pawing through the things on and in my desk. And though the lock on my desk was fixed pretty quickly I’ve been carrying my purse with me everywhere now because I’m so scared someone will break into my desk again. Making matters worse is that I’ve heard nothing about what, if anything, library management plans to do about it. The police did take a report about the stolen laptop but didn’t really care, and security continues to be a joke here. People are always getting into the staff-only area because it’s ridiculously easy to do and everyone knows this but no one with the authority to actually do anything about it will. I should not feel so unsafe at my job.

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      I’m sorry you are dealing with this! It would make me feel unsafe as well. Can you bring it up with your manager/library management and ask them what steps they are taking to prevent this from happening again? Even if they aren’t forthcoming sometimes asking (and then following up at reasonable intervals) can help prod them to action.

    2. KR*

      This is an excellent opportunity to organize as a group. Consider seeing how your coworkers feel and pushing back as a group. If you can put together a list of incidents and security lapses (and proposed fixes – do you want key card locks on doors? This could be a great way to block off offices. You don’t have to remember to lock the office as it auto locks every time the door closes, and a key admin can disable/enable keys as nessecary when people stop working there or need access to different rooms). Do you need lockers instead of keeping valuables in your office? How often are you working alone? Pushing back as a group could stir your bosses into action. Try looking at other libraries of comparable size and use what has worked for them as evidence that what you’re asking can work, is reasonable, and in line with other similar budgets and towns.

      1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

        Passcode doorknobs, too. That way you don’t have to worry about keys, and if someone shares their code with someone who shouldn’t be allowed back there, you can just change the code.

    3. Treecat*

      Ugh, commiseration here. I work at a university library but it is a large state research university and our main library + stacks are open to the public. We get a LOT of people trying to avoid being made to leave after closing, and while our facilities team is lovely, the building is HUGE and it’s easy for a determined person to hide. Someone stole our master facilities keys not too long ago, and while they were able to be recovered, I think it’s only a matter of time before the whole building needs to be re-keyed (which will doubtless cost tens of thousands of dollars, sigh).

      You should not feel so unsafe at your job. It sucks, and I’m sorry.

      1. roisin54*

        Oh man, it is a serious struggle to get people to leave at closing here, particularly on the weekends. We’ve had people argue with us about how they should be allowed to stay until the exact second we close, or how they should be allowed in “just to look around real quick” the minute after we close. And many people are just so shocked/pissed off that we have the gall to close at 5pm on weekends.

        Making things worse is that we have spaces that get rented out for private functions all the damn time, sometimes four or five per weekend in the warm weather months. I’ve found so much party detritus on our tables and shelves it’s ridiculous.

    4. BadWolf*

      Can you bring up privacy and data concerns? Stealing patron data? Security breach? Fines for stolen emails, phone numbers, etc? “I’m afraid for my personal safety and wallet” should be good reason, of course, but “data breach at local library” isn’t going to read well.

  35. Mimmy*

    Thanks to those who replied to my post last Friday about the conference I was attending. Aside from travel hiccups (which I’ll describe tomorrow) and now being sick, everything went well. I needn’t worry about being a newbie – there were a few others as well. Also, once my credits are approved by the certification program administrator, I should be able to sit for the exam!

    Which is where I could use some resources. Part of the exam will include question about design standards, and I have zero background in design, engineering, architecture, or any of that. Luckily, there is no expectation to memorize the standards, just know where to look up the information. However, the workshop on these standards I attended at the conference was still over my head. Part of it was not understanding the terminology used.

    Any links with basic information that might fill in the gaps would be much appreciated.

    Gulp!

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Do you mean like features built into buildings to make the building accessible to all?

      Or looking at this from the opposite direction, can you give us 3-4 words that were not familiar and we can piece together what a good resource would be for those types of words?

      [This is a great question for fposte if she happens this way.]

      1. Mimmy*

        Hey NSNR!

        Yes, they’re the ADA Standards for Accessible Design. I have the book, which has a list of definitions in the beginning, but it’s still unclear. Words like egress, scoping requirements, circulation path, etc.

        I hope fposte sees this!

        1. Llellayena*

          Egress: way out of the building
          Scoping requirements: range of situations the following codes apply to (not 100% sure on this one though)
          Circulation path: the places people walk from one location to another

          If you’ve got more you’re unsure of, I’ll check back a couple times.

          2. Mimmy*

            Just thought of one question:

            One thing I see a lot are what look like ratios in the context of ramps and other slops. I know a ramp has to have a slope of 1:12…what does that mean exactly?

            Suffice it to say that once I get this certification, I don’t see myself specializing in architectural accessibility, lol.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              The format is rise:run. This is said out loud as “rise to run”. Rise is the height, run in the length. This is known as pitch. It’s also used with roofs and roads. Roofs and hills are described by their pitch. Us regular people think of it an incline. “That hill has a steep incline.” Another way of saying the same thing is “That hill has a steep pitch.” Technical people use numbers to describe how severe the steepness of the hill/roof is.

              In your example this 1:12 is read as “one to twelve pitch” which means for every 12 feet of run (length) there is 1 foot of rise(height).

              Picture a wheel chair ramp. It is twelve feet long. One end is at ground level. There end is 1 foot high. That is a 1:12 pitch.

              Ex. 2. Let’s pretend we have a very long ramp with the same pitch. It’s a 24 foot ramp with a 1:12 pitch. So for every 12 feet of length the ramp goes up 1 foot, then a 24 foot ramp would be 2 feet high at one end and ground level at the other end.

              Pitch is important because some pitches (inclines) are too difficult to navigate in a wheelchair or for people with other limitations.
              (One last example: My roof has a 7:12 pitch. Yes, very steep. I get scared when someone goes up to repair it. I had safety hooks installed on the peak of the roof so now repair people can hook their safety harness to a solid anchor.)

              1. Mimmy*

                Ah okay, that’s very helpful!!

                So, in your example, the roof has 7 feet of rise for every 12 feet?? O-O

                1. Not So NewReader*

                  Yepper, you got it.
                  To me it’s scary. My house is one story but the roof goes up as high as a if it were a second floor, with THAT pitch. phew. It’s a slate roof, so the roof itself will last forever (almost). But I do need to have slates replaced periodically. That is why the worry about people going up there. Now I have what I call sky hooks. One at each end and one in the middle. The hooks were installed across the very peak of the roof. This gives roofers plenty to hook on to and they can reach the area where they need to work.

                  The house was built almost 200 years ago. I would love to know what they were thinking that they thought this roof was a good idea, it’s so tall and so steep.

                2. Mimmy*

                  NOBODY was thinking 200 years ago – that’s why getting older areas to be accessible can be a pain in the tuckus lol.

    2. Llellayena*

      Look up the Fair Housing Guidelines and the ICC/ANSI A117.1-2009. The ICCSAFE website has online versions of ANSI. That should cover most of the basics. There are more current editions of the ANSI codes, but 2009 is what most construction will be under in the near future. Good luck!

  36. BeanCat*

    I’m currently struggling with some health issues (doctors are sort of confused what’s wrong with me) which have required lots of half days or early-leave days…and I only get 12 sick/vacation days for the year. :/ I guess I’m just looking for commiseration because nothing I can do will change the PTO issue. It’s a butt-in-seat 8-5 job, and I almost sort of miss my dysfunctional WAH job with unlimited PTO right now.

      1. BeanCat*

        I’m under a year, unfortunately. I was trying to hold off on getting anything done until I’d hit the one year mark, but I couldn’t when everything flared up. Just a few more months!

    2. Tired*

      I’m in the same boat, except with 5 sick days per year. I’ve been skipping lunches to go have testing done to figure out what’s wrong. It’s a miserable situation to be in. You already feel like crap, and then you have to feel like crap all day long at work… I don’t have advice, but lots of commiseration.

      1. BeanCat*

        Ugh, I’m so sorry. My last job I actually had only five days as well..and I ended up having surgery. I just flat out wasn’t getting paid by the time the actual surgery came around.

        Thanks for the commiseration and I hope you get some answers and feel well soon!

    3. WellRed*

      Have you acknowledged to your boss that you know it’s an issue, you are working very hard to get things under control? I know it doesn’t help with the the lack of PTO etc, but if you are at all worried about the (God I hate this phrase) optics at your newish job, it might ease a few worries.

      1. BeanCat*

        I have; we’ve spoken. The good news is I have built a reputation for being really reliable in the first eight months of the year, so I think he’s willing to be more flexible even knowing that I don’t have solid answers. I still hate that I have to do it, but I’m reasonably confident I’ll still have a job.

    4. SJ*

      Won’t help with a paycheck necessarily but if you are eligible, check into FMLA…it will protect your job at least. Good luck…I hope you figure out what is wrong and get well!

      1. BeanCat*

        I won’t be eligible for a few more months – haven’t quiiiiite been there a year yet. Thank you for the well wishes!

  37. Jack Be Nimble*

    Just a gripe: one of my monthly tasks is uploading job descriptions to a central repository and make minor formatting changes. This month’s batch are just so bad that I’ve also been doing some fairly intensive copy editing for the sake of clarity. There are an unending number of acronyms used without being defined and unpunctuated paragraph-long run-ons. It’s taking me three times as long as it should because the job descriptions are virtually impossible to understand.

    1. Not-Always a Creative Writer*

      Ditto–I did that all day Wednesday, which didn’t even put a dent in the entire library. My team audits for accuracy in other data fields, but the job description field belongs to me. Huge job… huge amount of commiseration with you this week.

    3. irene adler*

      Speaking as a job hunter, thank you so much for your efforts!
      You are making my life a little easier-which I appreciate.

    4. Lupin Lady*

      That sounds like something you should take a record of to have in your back pocket at raise-time. “My job is minor formatting, but what I’m actually doing is significantly more”

    5. Wishing You Well*

      Please consider telling your boss what’s happening and see if s/he wants you to spend your time on this. If heavy copy editing is not what the boss wants you to do, you need to know NOW. Best of Luck.

  38. intelligent_zombie*

    I am trying to do a gut check – am I being too sensitive or expecting too little from people?

    We had a new director join our company less than 6 months ago. Everyone in our company is very approachable and very open to helping one another and communicating. The new director has been insisting people use specific subjects and exact wording when emailing them. Some members of staff have complained or simply ignore them. I agree with staff that it seems particularly fussy, but I also know that we all receive a TON of emails every day and the director may be using this system to keep track of things.

    I am also a director so I have standing to broach the conversation as a helpful, “this is out of our norm you might second think it,” but should I? What do people think? Is this too much for someone to expect from coworkers or is it a reasonable expectation?

    Part of my hesitation with having the conversation is that this director will rebut everything and it turns into a very long, drawn out conversation.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I hate that type of thing. I have had to do it, but that was when I was a new employee coming into a culture where that was expected. Annoying, and I actually got reprimanded more than once, but I knew that was part of the deal of joining a new workplace.

      This guy probably came from a place where such rigidity was expected and he’s now in a new gig and doesn’t feel the need to adjust or adapt. He might get better results if he asks for a compromise, but he has to do it with respect to the culture he joined: “Hey, it will be easier for me to keep track of your emails if you use TEAPOT PROJECT in the subject line, please try to use that wording” and leave it at that.

      I think he’s being unreasonably inflexible, though I think I understand the motivation. But if he wants to win over longstanding employees and colleagues, he will likely have to bend a bit.

    2. Amylou*

      It sounds like he’s using specific keywords to filter or search in his email. Maybe instead of simply demanding people use these specific words, he/you/anyone can explain to the employees who don’t like doing this why he would like this – along the lines of: I use the keywords for email filtering, so I can easily see all emails relating to project X and prioritise accordingly – that’s why I ask you to do this, I will find/get to your email faster that way, making our work easier for the both of us.

      1. Mockingjay*

        Agree with Amylou. I use consistent subject lines in my emails, especially to upper management. They get hundreds of emails and often have to search to find something after only a day or two. Also, key words can be used to autosort incoming emails into separate folders. I do this myself and it saves me SO much effort.

    3. Margery*

      I wish we had this system at work – the amount of emails I receive with no subject headings is one of my total pet hates.

    4. intelligent_zombie*

      I realized I had an important question around this that I don’t know the answer to – if someone isn’t conforming to his request, how does he respond?

      I think I might explore that first as maybe he’s not being as rigid as I’m concerned he is being. It sounds like he’s saying it as a “you must do this” but it might actually be a “it would help me if you did this” type of set up.

    5. Gumby*

      If I might email 40 people in my company and only one has this weird subject line requirement… I’m likely to forget from time to time even if I intend to try his method. So of he’s throwing a fit about people not complying 100% that is, perhaps, a problem.

      But I am much more concerned about “this director will rebut everything and it turns into a very long, drawn out conversation” because that’s not a good sign in anyone. Just because you are near the top of the hierarchy doesn’t mean the ability to take feedback is no longer required.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Try to find out what the goal is that he is reaching for, even if you think you already know the answer still ask him what he is aiming at. What I like about this question is people can get defensive fast and if you find out what his thoughts are first you may be able to direct him to a better/less annoying way to do that. He might feel like it’s a helpful conversation rather than a reprimand of any sort.

      OTH, if it looks like most people are ignoring him, then you might decide this is not something you need to address. Subordinates can some times bend their own boss into conforming just by making it too hard for him to do a particular thing.

  39. Not Using My Regular Username*

    Sigh. Advice, please, on how to deal with the excruciating situation of ‘Having a Crush on A Colleague And It Might Be Reciprocal A Bit’. It’s pathetic. I feel like a teenager despite being well into my 40s. Feel free to tell me to grow up…

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It’s not pathetic. It’s normal (and, yes, excruciating), and honestly it can make the day go faster. Just try not to make up reasons to visit your crush during the day. :) Picture this person picking their nose. Don’t go to lunch together if you think you might get moony. It will pass!

    2. NicoleK*

      If you do not plan to act on this crush then here’s what I suggest:
      1. Don’t tell anyone about the crush
      2. Don’t tell your crush about the crush
      3. Try to act normal around crush
      4. Don’t create situations to be alone with your crush
      5. Create a pros/cons list about crush

      Now, if you plan to act on your crush then check to see if your work place allows for interoffice dating

      1. Hamburke*

        +1 on the pros/cons list (especially the cons list)! But add things that make the crush “neutral” too.

    3. BRR*

      It’s not pathetic, it’s incredibly common. What helped me was actually envisioning what it would be like to date him. I knew enough about him that when I thought was out time together would be like and how we would handle certain events, I got over it reallllll fasttttt.

    4. J*

      Yeah, not pathetic at all! And super common. Definitely don’t act on/encourage it, and if you can, enjoy it for what it’s worth.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You know, for most of us if we stop something we have to start something else to fill the gaps.
      My suggestion is to ask yourself what you can fill up your day with. Perhaps you can start setting harder to reach goals that mean you have to focus all day long. Perhaps you can ask for a new task to do. I love a new task it makes the day fly by.
      Or maybe there is bigger picture stuff such as you are totally bored with the job and you should have left three years ago. Maybe you can start a job search if that is the case. That would keep me plenty busy.

      Last. Scare the crap out of yourself. Picture your job/home/life falling apart because someone found out that the two of you were actually involved.

    6. NotMyRealNameEither*

      I’m almost 40 and I am in the same situation.

      Although I am not sure if it reciprocal….sometimes I think yes, sometimes no.

      It has inspired me to be better at work though, and make sure I look my best every day!

      Of course, then sometimes I have a day like today when I say something totally stupid to her and then I spend the say feeling like a stupid idiot instead of focusing on my work….

    7. Indie*

      It might help to figure out what situations are feeding the crush as a way of getting control on the growth of the crush.
      It must be some particular kind of interaction because few people fall in love at first sight (although if there is a visual element you might want to realign the sight lines in the office).
      Is it fun conversation? Support with various problems? Has an affectionate friendship sprang up? Instant messaging? Do you spend lots of unstructured time together? (Most colleagues spend more time together than with loved ones, especially if there’s downtime). Do you overhear her being affectionate/awesome to others?
      You can probably reign all this stuff in or remove yourself from personal interactions at work.
      Someone who is professionally supportive can have a similar effect but that interaction is trickier to quit.
      If this crush is something you really want to pursue (after considering the pitfalls of dating a coworker) then try to make sure the feelings are only developed off the clock, on actual dates.
      It is too much pressure to go on a first date when you/your date is already seeing it as a big deal so halting the crush makes sense personally as well as professionally.
      I would take a step back as my first step.

  40. fromscratch*

    Curious about two things related to work travel:
    1) What % would you consider “minimal travel”
    2) What is “normal” for handling business travel expenses and reimbursements?

    I took a job in November and was told in the job description and interview process that there was very minimal travel involved. In the 4 weeks between my final interview and my start date, the process for our team changed so that we travel on site for at least 5 days of a customer’s 60-90 day project. We might have 3 or 4 projects in process at once. One coworker has traveled a few days every week for the last month. Had I known about this during the offer phase, I would have negotiated for significantly more money b/c being gone this much means I need to pay for some at-home support while I’m away.
    On the expense front, the company is only paying for our airfare and hotel up front – we are responsible for paying for everything else and then getting reimbursed – so hotel incidental holds, rental car, all transportation, all food we have to front the cost. I am out $400 from a recent trip and won’t be reimbursed until at least 2 weeks after my return.
    Is this normal? Do you have suggestions on how to phrase my struggle with being asked a)travel more than anticipated and b) to shell out this much of my own cash or credit card balance?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Hmm, this seems outside the norm to me. “Normal travel” may vary by industry, but I’d assume something like one or two trips a year (less than a week), maybe on top of one or two conferences a year. If your job has changed to include significant amount of travel, your company should really be making a corporate credit card available to you. If it’s new, they may just not be aware that this is an issue for you. Be aware, some people strongly prefer to use their own card so they can wrack up points and miles – but if that’s not you, they should be flexible. I would negotiate hard in my employee review for that raise if I were you. You can also be straight with your boss that it’s more travel than you expected and more than you would prefer. If this is a new policy, they may just be running into these things for the first time and perhaps you can raise them politely and get satisfaction.

    2. CatCat*

      1) Traveling every week in the month is definitely not minimal. I would consider minimal to be short-term travel every few months.

      2) Normal. I’m actually impressed with their 2-week turnaround time on reimbursements. Is there an option for a travel advance? I would inquire about that. “Boss, I am incurring a lot more travel expenses for reimbursement than I am comfortable with. When it’s less than $X, that’s okay, but when it’s more than $X, that imposes a burden on my finances. When it looks like travel expenses are going to be more than $X, would it be possible to get a travel advance?”

      On the overall travel issue, “Boss, when I was hired for this job, the travel was described as minimal. However, I have been traveling multiple times every month. Is that something you expect to continue long-term?” If it’s long-term, you can then either decide this isn’t the place for you or inquire further on the travel issue. “Hmmmmm, one of the reasons I accepted this job on the terms that I did is that travel was supposed to be minimal. Is there a path to reducing the amount I am expected to travel or revisit my compensation?”

    3. The Rain in Spain*

      I think there have been letters about work travel that have included some model language. If you have a good relationship with your manager, I would just sit down with him/her and explain the situation- with the recent process changes the job entails much more travel than you initially anticipated, which drastically increases your costs for ____ home support. Also, while you can afford to wait for reimbursement of travel expenses when they are limited, the more frequent travel and delays in reimbursement is making it really difficult for you. What solutions can we come up with for this? If you frame it as asking them for help sometimes that’s useful. Maybe the solution is to see if you can move to a per-diem, or a corporate card for travel expenses, etc.

    5. Elizabeth Proctor*

      Re: reimbursement, I would get a separate credit card and only put business expenses on that. Get one with good rewards. I would say waiting up to a month for reimbursement is reasonable. Agree with asking about an advance, though. My old organization had an option for that (I never used it).

      1. fromscratch*

        I’m paying down credit card debt after a year of underemployment & 3 months outright unemployment, so this is not an option right now. Also, unless I’m also going to be reimbursed for the interest, long reimbursement periods could mean I’m accruing interest on travel expenses and having to pay that out of pocket.

        1. Natalie*

          On a card that isn’t carrying a balance, interest doesn’t start accruing until after the payment due date, which will be anywhere from 3-8 weeks from the purchase date. So with a separate card, if you are being reimbursed in a timely fashion and then paying the bills in a timely fashion, there wouldn’t be any interest charges to pay.

          (Now, whether or not any individual person thinks they should have to do this, or could do this, is a totally separate question and really more a matter of personal choice.)

      2. WellRed*

        I disagree that fronting (also known as loaning) a company money for any length of time is reasonable. A month is ridiculous!

    7. ChachkisGalore*

      Very much agree on #1 – that this does not sound like what I would think of as minimal travel.

      For the expenses, though, this all sounds very “normal” based on my experience (approx 10yrs of admin experience where handling travel/expense reports for my professionals). The only thing that I’ve typically seen covered in advance is rental cars. The rest of it – food, hotel incidental hold and transportation costs I’ve never seen covered up front. I’m not even really sure how that would work unless they were giving you an actual travel per diem – like 75$ a day automatically paid out per day. I haven’t really seen that – even places with a general budget, like $50 for dinner wouldn’t pay those upfront because you wouldn’t be entitled to the excess if your meal was less than $50.

      The only thing you could do, I think, is ask if they can issue you a company credit card. My personal opinion is that any company with employees that travel even semi-regularly should have company credit card arrangements (rather than expecting employees to shell out their own cash to be reimbursed), but that’s just my opinion and there also valid reasons why companies don’t want to take the risk of issuing company CCs.

      1. CM*

        Same. If people are traveling every week then it sounds like frequent travel and the rental car expenses could rack up fast. Most rental cars I’ve had were on a company card whether or not I was tbe card holder so that might be worth talking about, especially since they’re sending you out so often.

    8. Alex*

      It is normal to pay for food and other on-the-spot expenses up front and then get reimbursed later. However, since the travel has greatly increased, I might say “I know that in the past, travel was minimal and so this probably wasn’t an issue, but since travel has now become very routine and frequent, is there a chance I can get issued a company credit card to avoid the spend/reimbursement cycle to make this easier?”

      I’d save the “I deserve more money due to all this travel” for your next performance review/raise conversation.

    9. Stephanie*

      1. It depends on your department. My department is a traveling one and I’m a “light” traveler by only traveling at 30%. But I know this isn’t most departments. I’d say light travel would be like 1-2x a year.
      2. I have a corporate credit card, so all expenses go on that and I have to file an expense report accounting for all the charges. But I work for a MegaCorp. But I have heard of other companies just reimbursing people. If you’ve got the available credit, I’d say put trips like that on a credit card since you know the money will be coming to you shortly. I personally wouldn’t tie up my cash if you can avoid it.

    10. Lucy*

      I do “minimal” travel – less than a week a year. Spouse did “some” travel which ended up being 100+ days a year. His NewJob should be more like a couple of days a month at most. I think that still counts as “minimal” and would be similar to your one week per 60-90-day project if you only had one project at a time.

      As for reimbursement, I agree with others that putting major expenses on the company credit card is normal (and this is a good reason for employers to use a travel agent) but daily incidentals would be reimbursed in the next pay cycle unless special arrangements were needed. Asking for an advance for longer trips ought to be unremarkable especially if they are likely to fall in the wrong part of the credit card cycle. But keep and record absolutely every receipt!

  41. MsChanandlerBong*

    I finally decided to start looking for a new job. I like the people I work with, but there is no room for advancement (there are only six of us, and I report directly to the company founder), I haven’t had a raise since I was hired (despite setting sales records and making huge gains in revenue and profit), and I am doing two or three jobs for the price of one (I was hired to edit and oversee freelancers; I am now running almost all HR functions, writing technical documentation for proprietary software, etc.). I am not afraid of hard work, but I am feeling taken advantage of. Every time there’s a new initiative/idea, it gets added to my to-do list, but my pay has not increased to reflect that. I grew up with parents who think $10 an hour is a high-paying job, so part of me wonders if I am being totally unrealistic by wanting more than $18 an hour. Then another part of me thinks I could make $60K elsewhere for what I do now, with less hassle.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Do it! I think everybody should start looking as soon as they get the sense they could make more elsewhere – there’s just so little incentive for companies to significantly increase salaries when they suspect you’ll stay for the same amount. You’ll either learn that you’re worth more or that you’re fairly paid, so it’s a win win for you to find out.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Yeah, I think that’s the best thing to do. I understand it’s a small business and I may not make what I would with a big company, but there is a huge disparity.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        All of this! And remember that looking doesn’t commit you to anything, and looking with a current job you can stand is the best possible position to be in. You can take your time, only pursue things that look really good, and present yourself as a strong candidate in a position to say no.

        Go for it!

    2. The Rain in Spain*

      You can definitely make more elsewhere with all the duties you have. Are you able to sit down with the company founder and outline your accomplishments and ask for a raise? If you’re willing to look elsewhere it’s hard to see what the downside would be!

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        At the end of the year, he always asks for feedback about what would make the job better. I did say that I have taken on more and more responsibilities, produced good outcomes (e.g. I have made major changes to our recruiting and HR policies, resulting in reduced turnover/increased retention, a 41% reduction in late submissions, etc.), and so forth and would like a raise, especially considering that I have no benefits (the company offers $100 per month toward an insurance plan of your choice that you have to buy on the marketplace; my husband work offers comprehensive insurance, so I am covered through him). Haven’t heard anything about it. But it’s been 2.5 years at the same pay rate, so I don’t have much hope.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          I have found in my career that some jobs just never offer raises, or they only ever offer very small COLA at the end of the year, nothing else. I feel so sorry for people who don’t realize how much more they are worth, or keep believing someday they will get that boost – when they could make 20K more somewhere else any time. Don’t be one of those people!!

          1. MsChanandlerBong*

            I am trying not to be! I mentioned in another post that I come from a family of people who think that $10/hour is an amazing pay rate, so I have a lot of issues around money and not wanting to be “selfish” and “greedy.” I can live on what I make, so I think I’d be okay with the pay if there wasn’t more and more and more work every week for no extra money. Also, one thing that annoys me is that payday is supposed to be on the first and fifteenth, but that doesn’t mean I get the money on the first and fifteenth. It means my boss sits down sometime on those days and runs payroll. In many cases, he doesn’t do it until late in the evening, so the direct deposit does not count for that day. Today is payday, but it’s Friday and he hasn’t run payroll yet (I can tell b/c we use ADP, and when I log in, I can see my new pay stub when he’s done it–the stub is not there yet). That means if he does it this evening, it won’t count as being done until Monday because Sat. and Sun. don’t count as business days, and then I won’t get the money in my bank account until Tuesday, which is the fifth of the month. Four days after “payday.”

              1. MsChanandlerBong*

                Yep. The law just states that if you pay semimonthly and have work periods that run from the first through 15th and 16th through last day of the month, you just have to pay wages sometime within the 10 days following the last day of the pay period. So if the pay period ends 1/31, then we can be paid any time between 2/1 and 2/10.

            2. Gumby*

              Just because you can live on your current salary doesn’t make it ok. If you are bringing more value to the company than they are paying you – that’s a problem regardless of what your expenses are.

              The money stories we learn in childhood affect us throughout our lives. I get that it might feel uncomfortable to earn significantly more than parents / family members / your social group. But earning more doesn’t mean you have to spend more or flaunt your excess. It can just sit there quietly providing peace of mind and a safety net. I like to keep 1 year’s worth of living expenses in a savings account (because job searches take time and emergencies happen). It allowed me to make a large cash gift to a family member when it was desperately needed without adding any stress to my own financial picture.

              Having that type of cushion, if you don’t have one now, might also reduce annoyance at later-than-expected paydays.

              And if you absolutely can’t silence the inner voice telling you that you shouldn’t ask for more, maybe commit to donating some percentage of your raise to a cause you care about to help make the asking easier.

    3. CatCat*

      You’ve got nothing to lose and a lot to gain by looking elsewhere. Especially if you’re being underpaid by over $20k.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Yeah, I am going to look around. I volunteer for a large organization, and I would love to be employed by them. Since it’s so large, there would be way more opportunities to move up in the future, and they offer full medical/vision/dental, PTO, life insurance, STD and LTD, training and development opportunities, etc. My company offers no benefits other than $100 a month toward insurance if you buy a plan on the marketplace and a 401(k) with a match equivalent to about $40 a year. I would even be willing to take a pay cut to get my foot in the door with the big organization, as they offer many benefits and there is an established system for moving up and developing a career.

    4. Need a Beach*

      I work closely with people who do only one aspect of your duties (writing technical documentation for proprietary software) and they command twice the hourly rate you’ve listed here.

      You are being taken advantage of.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Thank you for confirming my thoughts! That part of my job is minimal, but I accepted my salary based on the duties of editing freelance submissions, light customer support (answering queries to make sure writers have the information they need to complete each assignment), and so forth. If I had known I would be hiring about 400 people per year (including writing job ads, screening applications, conducting telephone interviews, doing onboarding paperwork, etc.), resolving payroll errors, and so forth, I would have asked for more money.

  42. Anonymous Educator*

    If someone leaves your department and is eventually going to be replaced but the replacement process is likely going to take many months, is it weird for the remaining people to ask for extra money for the time in between for the extra load they’ll take on until the replacement is found? What do orgs usually do with that extra money they aren’t paying in salary and benefits to the person who’s left?

    1. School Inclusion Specialist*

      When I was in the non-profit world, it would be weird to ask. However, when I was working as a teacher, it wasn’t. I see from your username you’re an educator. If you have a union contract, there might be a requirement that if you teach an additional class then you get paid for that additional course or loss of a planning period (but the school may not pay unless you go through the grievance process).

    2. Person from the Resume*

      Yes; it would be very unusual for people to get an increase in salary while they take on extra duties when a position is unfilled. It’s not unheard of in certain situations, but that would not be normal in an office where you’re expected to pick up slack when people are out and perform other duties as assigned.

      The organization saves money while a position is not filled. Sometimes decisions are made to save money by not filling a position.

    3. CatCat*

      Yeah, it would be weird unless it’s higher level work. (Like you’re now doing a significant amount of Senior Teapot Painter work, but you’re a Junior Teapot Painter and being paid at that level. If you’re essentially an acting Senior Teapot Painter, I would inquire then about getting the commensurate pay.)

    4. Asenath*

      Spend it on something else, I strongly suspect. We rarely have someone hired and ready to go when a position becomes vacant, and the general idea seems to be that someone (whoever is in a similar role) will do anything that can’t possibly wait, but most of the work will pile up. And no one gets paid, since almost invariably, no one is hired on a temporary basis to do the work. They certainly don’t pay the people who take care of anything urgent.

    5. Ghost Town*

      Public university employee here:
      In a previous department, I filled in for some of the duties for someone who was below me in the hierarchy. I was an exempt employee covering the duties of a non-exempt employee. These duties were related to my functional area. I did not receive any temporary pay. Temp. pay wasn’t even really brought up. I was also fairly new to the world of work.

      In current department and position, I have actually gotten temp pay twice in the past almost-two-years. (1) essentially launching a new program. Since my primary role include recruitment, the new recruiting I did was not temp pay eligible, but I did get temp pay for the subsequent student affairs and services stuff I took on. (2) Position that is lateral to mine was taking a whole lot longer than anticipated to replace. Director was also new. Suddenly, I was the longest serving professional staff employee. I took on significant portions of open position for a period and received temporary pay for the the smaller subset of time during which the largest amount of my work-week was devoted to not-the-job-I-was-hired-for. I initiated the temp pay discussion this time. New director began to taking on more of the responsibilities as they were able. I imagine they did not receive temp pay, as it was covering duties of their direct report.

      In both instances, the temporary pay came after the additional work was started (or completed) and was a result of Directors advocating for me.

  43. Semi-Helpful Wife*

    Commenting for my husband’s sake! He is a software development with 15 years of experience in the field. He’s been at his current company for 7 years now and was more or less happy there until last year.

    The company merged with another and all of the perks (unlimited vacation days, stock options, etc) went away. The promotion he was promised has been pulled out. We’re grateful that he wasn’t in the group that was laid off last year, but work is becoming less pleasant.

    His question is how does he go about job searching without his employer finding out? Normally he would just reach out to the freezer dozen recruiters he’s connected with on LinkedIn, but he is worried that’s too noisy. I’m not familiar with the tech world (firmly in the legal field here). Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!!

    1. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

      I know what it’s like. I had two very nasty things happen to me in the last year. I won’t detail them here, but friends and colleagues have advised me a) you’re at a point where you don’t need to work and b) you’re almost 68, you won’t be this age again.

      I informed my management that unless there was a change in my role, I will be leaving on a particular date. Oddly enough, some things have changed in the last two weeks, but we’ll see.

      I’ll either be working or sipping rum swizzles on the beach. But I couldn’t do that five years ago. I can do it now.

    2. Mockingjay*

      If he is connected with current coworkers and managers on LinkedIn, Facebook and other social media, I advise that he quietly unfriend them. If they ask, “oh, just cutting back on social media these days.” Also check LinkedIn privacy settings. If he updates his profile, uncheck the option that posts profile updates.

      For recruiters, rather than connecting through LinkedIn, he should be able to make contact via their corporate website – email or phone. Do a quick search on the recruiting companies before contacting them; some are more professional than others. Look for ones that handle specifically IT services companies.

      I got Current Job through a recruiter who found me on LinkedIn. They handled all contacts with me very professionally.

    3. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      On LinkedIn, you can turn off newsfeed updates for your profile changes, so if you go in and clean up your profile it won’t notify your connections.

    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Decent recruiters know to keep their mouths shut about who the candidates are. If he sends a message to them and includes the phrase “confidential search”, that will just reinforce the norm of discretion.

      If the recruiter is an internal one to his company of course, don’t reach out to them!

    5. Angelinha*

      If he’s already connected to the recruiters on LinkedIn, how would his employer have any idea that he’s contacting them? Even if he weren’t already connected to them and was making new connections, I doubt an employer would notice or think, “hey, Joe is suddenly connected with 10 recruiters, he must be job hunting.”

      1. Darren*

        I’ve been working for my tech company for 5 years now, I’ve probably had 2-3 recruiters added to my LinkedIn per year, nobody has made a comment, and most of them have also been added by a lot of the upper management anyway. None of these people having added recruiters has made any movement to leave that anyone is aware of. I expect it’s mostly building a stable of options for people to talk to once they decide to move on.

    6. ArtsTix*

      My husband is in Unix systems administration and all he has to do is update his LinkedIn profile – probably a dozen recruiters hit him up every time he does. He’s super happy with his current job but the last 2 times he’s moved, this was sufficient to find him the next place.

    1. Rebecca*

      Roasted pistachios, yogurt, carrots, hummus, apples and cheese sticks, that type of thing – keeps me out of regular snacks for the most part.

    3. Less Bread More Taxes*

      Freeze dried strawberries. It sounds weird, but I’m addicted. Other than that, cheese cubes (not sure if those count).

      2. kittymommy*

        I do freeze dried bananas (so yummy!!) although I think I’m developing an allergy to bananas. Ehh, I’ll still eat them until it really gets going. And bare naked Simply Banana chips. Also really good and no added sugar and not to hard.

        And hard boiled eggs.

    5. The Rain in Spain*

      String cheese or yogurt, graze snacks (individually packaged), nuts, frozen edamame, kale chips, roasted chickpeas
      cereal and soup for days I forget/don’t want to pack lunch

    6. CatCat*

      I keep a bowl full of fruit in my office. I also bring in hardboiled eggs and sometimes carrot sticks.

    7. Lady Kelvin*

      I make my own trail mix. Some granola cereal, mixed nuts and/or peanuts, dried cranberries (because I like them better than raisins), a bag of M&Ms. We buy all the pieces individually at Sam’s club and then build at home so the cost is a fraction of what buying the pre-mixed trail mix is. Another tasty addition is shelled sunflower seeds, when we can find them.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I do this too and then pack in single-serve containers. I like a simple mix of Cheerios, honey roasted peanuts, and mini chocolate chips or those little baking M&Ms. A banana or sliced up apple helps with sugar cravings (in theory; I have never found this to be true, but I do make myself eat the fruit before anything less healthy).

        I also like the combo of plain almonds and Goldfish crackers. Note that a serving of almonds is ~23-28 actual almonds, which is not many at all so you should definitely count them out. Do not accidentally eat 3x that many in one sitting, and definitely don’t do that for several days in a row, and really don’t ask how I know that. :-(

    10. Applesauced*

      I have a portion control problem (but really, is there someone out there that WON’T finish the bag of Trader Joe’s Sesame Sticks if given the opportunity?), so I got baby food containers and measure out single servings of trail mix, homemade granola, dried fruit, and nuts, and will leave a few cheese sticks, Siggi’s yogurts, cut veggies and hummus or guac, hardboiled eggs in the fridge, and for breakfast (which I eat at my desk so kiiiiinda fits your question I have Belvita bars, overnight oats, or chia pudding.

    11. JustaTech*

      Herbal tea (“you must have two cups of tea before a snack” is my personal rule to make sure I’m not just thirsty/bored).
      Trader Joe’s dried Mandarin slices. Yes, dried oranges. They’re weird, but they’re very strongly flavored which keeps me from mindlessly eating the whole bag.

    12. Other Duties as Assigned*

      This was a topic when I was at a conference of broadcast reporters years ago. The conference always brought in a speaker on some adjacent topic and one year it was “Healthy Eating in the Newsroom.” The organizers brought in a nutritionist from the university who proceeded to reject pretty much everything we all were doing while at work. On the banned list: coffee, soda, fast food, donuts, salty snacks, candy, etc., etc. In frustration, someone asked if she could recommend something that would be healthy, easy to eat on the go and would be ok to have around our broadcast equipment. She responded that there were a couple of cereals we could eat dry right out of the box: mini-wheats and grape nuts. All I could think of was how the great comedian George Miller referred to these: hay and little rocks.

      1. Iris Eyes*

        I love grapenuts (try adding them to yogurt so good) and I have tried eating them dry…don’t do that. I did go the hot cereal route and put in hot water and that isn’t bad. Also they are tiny and can get everywhere and are loud if eaten on the dryer side.

    13. I'm A Little Teapot*

      crackers (take your pick). I’m more of a toddler, so animal crackers, goldfish crackers, graham crackers, etc. Sometimes end up with a package of diced fruit in the desk.

    15. Alex*

      I typically bring two pieces of fruit with me to work every day. I also keep a package of nuts at my desk, an emergency granola bar, and some emergency packets of oatmeal.

    16. Is my boss here?*

      almonds, pistachios, whole-wheat crackers, a piece of fruit brought fresh daily. may counteract the effect of the doughnut avalanche in that place.

  45. Lynne879*

    This might have been something asked in a AAM letter before, but how do you “dress up” to look older?

    I’m in my mid-20s but look like I’m in my early-20s. That might not sound like a big deal, but I do notice that I’m not taken as seriously when they think I’m younger than I really am. The dress code for the job I have right now is casual but for the future, how do I dress myself to “look older”? My go-to interview look is black slacks with a buttoned blouse, but I wonder if that isn’t “mature” enough. Do you guys have any tips?

    1. Almost Academic*

      I don’t know what it is, but adding a nice silk scarf has always “matured” my look for other folks. In general, accessories that are associated with older generations (brooches, pantyhose, etc.) can help to dress up a look but still keep it somewhat casual.

      1. Indie*

        Yep, silk scarves are rarely worn by the under 25s. Plus they cover a multitude of wardrobe sins. Look up how Audrey/Grace used to wear them. You need to know how to do a bias fold though.

        Otherwise look for anything ‘classic’ as opposed to ‘fashionable’ or ‘current’. Once people have lived through a few fashion cyces they stop caring and go for more expensive, but more permanent pieces. I think deliberately not reading women’s magazines is helpful.

    3. The Rain in Spain*

      I think your interview look sounds fine, maybe add a blazer/suit jacket. But I’ve *always* suited up for interviews (which in retrospect was probably a bit much in undergrad!). I think it depends on your industry and what’s typical there. What do more ‘mature’ people wear at your job/dream job?

      Generally I do think of these sorts of things, but it bothers me that this is what springs to mind and maybe I’m just thinking along the lines of more conservative rather than mature: dress in solids vs fun patterns more often, wear a cardigan/blazer, minimize accessories, if you wear makeup go for more ‘classic’ or subdued looks, opt for longer hemlines if you wear skirts/dresses. Stand/sit with good posture (she says as she’s hunched over her computer).

      For me when I felt I needed to step it up I changed the stores I typically shopped at- goodbye forever 21 and express, hello ann taylor and the limited (which isn’t to say that you can’t find work appropriate clothes at the former!). I don’t know, for some reason this question makes me feel a little uncomfortable. Wear work-appropriate clothes you like that aren’t see-though or super revealing and you should be fine! Particularly once you’re in a role, people will learn through interacting with you that you are competent and what not. Maybe suit up for your interviews if it’ll make you feel more confident.

    4. CatCat*

      Keep it professionally conservative. I think more conservative clothes will help. Wear a professional, simple (not unusual sleeves or detailing) black jacket with the slacks. Think dress type collared shirt in white or muted colors. I think a simple strand of pearls also adds a nice bit of mature polish.

      Make sure the clothes are well-tailored to fit you.

    5. Eleanor Shellstrop*

      As a fellow mid-20s who looks much younger, I usually go for the exact outfit you described, plus a dark-colored blazer, plus hair up and neat (i have very curly, unruly hair, so a bun works wonders) and some nice, neutral dangly earrings. Can’t speak for if this actually works or if it just makes me FEEL older, but it’s worth a try! Also, a really nice mauve lipstick.

    6. ANon.*

      For interviews, I would always dress up. But for work, personally, I think just being really put together will help make you appear older. This means smart accessories, clothes that are clean, not wrinkled or ripped, etc. Blazers are great even in a casual office, like with jeans, boots, and a silk blouse.

    7. fposte*

      In addition to what other people have said, there are black slacks and black slacks. Well tailored in wool is going to look different than off the rack in poly. I would definitely check with a tailor to see if there are opportunities to smooth fit that you haven’t realized.

      1. kittymommy*

        I was just going to say this. Having the slacks, blouses and blazers tailored to fit you will, surprisingly, do wonders. And as someone else said, changing wear you shop for clothes can also help (obviously depending on where you are currently shopping at).

    8. Seifer*

      I have that issue too–when I started working at my current job, a lot of people asked my friend that referred me, “is… how old is Seifer? You said you worked with her before, and you have to be at least 21 to work here, but uh, is she even 18?” I’m 27 this year. The cry-laugh emoji was invented for this situation, I swear.

      What helped me though, is that my first boss is 29 this month, and my current boss is 31, and they also look pretty young, but they’re the ones that are In Charge in an office full of Boomers, so I looked to them to see what they were doing differently. And honestly, one of the biggest things was that their clothes are well fitting and shirts are always tucked in. So I picked up a bunch of those Portifino shirts from Express and started tucking them into black skinny pants. Even though the skinny cut of my pants is not as formal, I find that a higher waist and the hidden clasp closure (instead of a button, like on jeans) makes it look more professional. If I really need it (vendor visit, client meeting, C-suite meeting), I also have a blazer to throw on. For an interview, I’d definitely do the blazer, but if it was in the summer, I’d still go without. But since then, I’m known around the office as “yeah Seifer, she gets shit done” instead of “Seifer with the tattoos” or “Seifer, she looks like she’s like, twelve.” …Actually, I still get “Seifer with the tattoos,” but that’s because I roll my sleeves up a lot.

      Oh, and shoes. I wear wedge booties almost exclusively. I like the ones that lace up, and I have a pair in black and in gray. I prefer for people not to literally be talking down to me, and I am just so, so short, so I feel like I need it. I do not wear stiletto heels, because while I can walk in them, after a few hours, I want to die, and my roommate says that that shows in my face. When you look uncomfortable, well, people think that you’re uncomfortable! That affects how you’re perceived too. The more comfortable you are, the more confident you look, and that goes a long way in looking more mature and competent.

      I apologize if this is super, super basic, but I figured, well, I didn’t know either when I started working at this job, and I had already had a business casual dress coded job before this job. Of course, at my last job, I was very whatever about it and wore v-necks and black jeggings with Vans and called that professional and was Offended when people would tell me, “well honey, you look like you’re 17.” You can’t tell, but I’m cringing at my past self. So I really hope this helps!

    9. Stephanie*

      I think the key is to err a bit conservatively. Or at the very least, make sure things fit, aren’t too sheer, are clean, and are of decent quality.

    10. Kiki*

      Tailoring and accessories are the first two that come to mind. An outfit that doesn’t fit makes the wearer look like they’re playing dress-up. Having accessories helps finish the look and also can help remove the “playing dress-up” vibe. You don’t need to go crazy with the amount or cost of the accessories— just adding a watch can make a great deal of difference.

    11. CW*

      I would consider buying one nice suit or a Blazer and two matching skirts to wear to your interviews. Adding a Blazer really ups the formality, especially since a white shirt and black pants can seem a little waiter like. I would also recommend sticking on the more formal side with jewelry so thinking of pearls or simple studs rather than anything dangly or more trendy. I don’t think any of it needs to be super expensive but that type of quiet, formal conservative look can really add a few years. Also recommend adding pantyhose and keeping your hair pulled back in a bun. If you wear glasses I would opt for glasses over contacts for these as well.

    12. La Framboise*

      And also, really nice shoes, doesn’t have to be brand but should look sharp. Either flats, heels, oxfords (if you like menswear look), or boots/booties. Also scarves and nice jewelry-i would take something incredibly stylish that you like over classic. And what everyone else has said about color, tailoring, and fit.

  46. Rebecca*

    I’ve been waiting for this! We have a lot of turnover in our office, and several of my coworkers are at their wit’s end with a newer hire from earlier last year. She’s just not progressing to where she needs to be, and it may be this isn’t a good fit for her skill set. Some of the concerns: she prints nearly every email she receives, hand writes notes and replies on the paper printout, then types and sends a reply to the email. Everything she does is slow, to the point where she takes hours or days to do tasks that should take a fraction of the time. When it was noticed she was opening attachments, saving them to a folder, then reattaching them to an email (instead of just dragging the attachment from one email to another), she flatly stated she wasn’t going to learn any of these “new fangled” things. She is also very sensitive, so if you try to say “oh hey, here’s an easier way to do this, let me show you” or “the next time before you proceed, please make sure you check with me like I asked you to”, she feels people are being mean to her. Any criticism, no matter how constructive, makes her anxious and upset.

    And since I’ve been reading this blog for a while now, I advised the coworker who was complaining to me (note, I am a peer, don’t work with this person, and it doesn’t affect my world one way or the other) to make sure they address this with the person training her and their manager, and to frame it that way – I’m finding Jane performs tasks with a lot of extra steps, that are not necessary, and has not been receptive to training and streamlining suggestions, can you step in and take a look? To be clear, this person’s behavior does affect others because she’s not available to help or pitch in with work that needs to be done. To complicate things, the person training her is a longtime friend…so their opinion is very skewed…and they don’t want to seem like they’re throwing their friend under the bus, so to speak.

    We’re about to get pretty busy again, so when push comes to shove, this person is going to have to step up or it’s going to be noticed, one way or the other. I’m curious to see how this shakes out.

    1. NicoleK*

      Well, if the manager is conflict avoidant….what will happen is slow coworker will continue to be slow, people will have to pick up her slack, and she’ll still be at the job 6 years from now. I have my own BEC slow coworker that I deal with on a regular basis.

        1. NicoleK*

          I feel sorry for your coworkers who have to work with her. I totally get it. It’s so frustrating when nothing gets addressed or there’s no accountability. Ever.

    2. Val Zephyr*

      Some of the stuff that you’re concerned about sounds inconsequential. Why does it matter how she attaches documents to emails as long as they get attached? And some people think better by hand writing their notes before typing them. What you perceive as her being “very sensitive” might just be her being annoyed about being told how to do very minor things that can be done in a dozen different ways. If you have legitimate concerns about the speed at which she completes assignments because it’s interfering with your own work, focus on that rather than criticizing the details of her workflow.

      1. Rebecca*

        It doesn’t interfere with my work. I don’t work on her team. But this does affect the others on her team, as in, they’re overwhelmed and handling 4x the amount of items she handles. It’s not an exaggeration to say that it takes her an entire day to do something the other team members (including one hired at the same time with less experience in our field) can handle in 2 hours or less. There are more streamlined and efficient ways to do things, and she refuses to do them, and that’s most of the reason her tasks take so long. For me, I’m staying out of it, and I referred the coworker who was complaining to this blog, and gave some of Alison’s tips to help her approach the trainer and manager.

      2. WellRed*

        If her workflow means it takes her hours to do that which should take minutes, it’s not inconsequential. I’d also guess these smaller things are just the tip of the iceberg. And spare me the adult who thinks constructive criticism is “mean.”

        1. Val Zephyr*

          My point is I don’t think this kind of criticism is constructive. It’s nitpicky. If this is just the tip of the iceberg, I think Rebecca should focus on the iceberg itself rather than her preferred method of attaching documents to emails.

          1. Rebecca*

            This is really the crux of it “she flatly stated she wasn’t going to learn any of these “new fangled” things” I don’t really care how she attaches anything to her emails. I don’t work with her. This was just an example – she refuses to learn new ways of doing things because…reasons?? This is how she’s always done things and no matter how long it takes, she wants to continue and not do things more efficiently.

            As said before – I am not affected by her work or lack of it, as she doesn’t work on my team. But I am sympathetic to the rest of her team. She needs to step up. That’s why I asked my coworker to present this to this person’s trainer and manager to address. It’s not useful to have the attitude to not learn new things!

      3. NicoleK*

        The “inconsequential” things add up. My BEC slow coworker takes 3 times as long to complete tasks. I’ll spare you the details of the things she does. Ultimately, the team picks up her slack because she can’t carry her own weight and will never be able to carry her own weight.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      She can be encouraged to find ways to increase her speed so she is carrying her share of the workload. It goes like this, “Jane, I understand some short cuts are not for you and it’s okay if you do not use a particular shortcut. However, the overarching idea is that we all have to find ways to increase our speed and productivity. So you will need to find ways to increase your productivity to match your peers. It’s fine not to use ours but then you must create your own.”

      When I have said this to people, the ones who are going to improve either actually DO create their own methods of doing things or they start to quietly ask their peers, “What was that tip about doing Xs faster?” However, some people are totally disconnected from their outputs and will not change. In a group where everyone was doing between 300-400 Xs per day, my person was doing 6. And she defended her low productivity to the bitter end. “But I am doing good!” noooo.

      I considered my phrasing that I used in my first paragraph here to be my last ditch effort to save a sinking ship. You know, it’s never ceased to amaze me the people who would let me help them and the people who would NOT let me help them. Some of the people that I thought would never, ever get it, finally got it after we chatted like this. There is just no way to know how something will play out until the person is told directly, “you must get your productivity up”.

    4. bunniferous*

      For some reason I never realized you could drag attachments from one email to another…..you just helped ME with productivity!

  47. Not a Real Giraffe*

    I know this question has been answered before but it never applied to me, so I scrolled past. Silly Giraffe.

    I am going to be a first-time manager; I will have one direct report. On top of all the nervousness of being a first-time manager, my main issue is that my direct-report-to-be is actually my closest friend at work. This is the person I talk to on IM throughout the day; we socialize outside of work; we follow each other on social media.

    I know the answer should be that I am going to have to pull back on our friendship if I’m to be an effective manager, but that’s also not quite the culture of my office. Lots of managers and direct reports here have incredibly close friendships.

    So, without severing my friendship entirely, any advice on how to tip-toe this fine line between friendship and management?

    1. School Inclusion Specialist*

      One of the first Ask a Manager podcasts was on this topic. If I remember correctly, the LW was the person who was going to be managed by the friend. I think it would still have helpful tips.

    2. Lily Rowan*

      Keep your friend stuff strictly friend stuff, if that makes sense? When I’m having casual/friendly conversations with my direct reports, it’s got to be about non-work topics. So, sure, we could bond over Top Chef or whatever, but the professional piece stays professional.

    3. PWK*

      Have you thought about having a discussion with your supervisee/friend about this? I might explicitly tell them that I’m feeling weird about my new supervisory role and how our relationship will change. I’d also emphasize that we have to be careful about perceptions of favoritism at work.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Honestly, you can’t. If that’s the culture of your office, that’s hugely problematic. Reasons why:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2013/10/can-a-manager-and-employees-be-friends.html

      I know (from firsthand experience!) that it’s really easy to think that you’re both mature enough for this to go okay, but generally people think that right up until the moment it stops being true. And being a new manager is hard enough (and, frankly, full of failures — no way around that) without throwing in the challenges of managing a friend as well. You really do need to pull back on the friendship in order to do the job effectively.

      If you see other friend-managers in your office and think that’s a sign it’s okay, I guarantee it’s causing problems that you aren’t seeing. Your office may not care, but that’s a sign of dysfunction. So if nothing else, I would say to be really careful about not picking up dysfunctional thinking around this that you’ll carry forward to later jobs.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        Sigh. You’re riiiiiiight. I read through the transcript of the podcast noted above and the “friendly but not friends” is my big takeaway, I think.

        We’re hoping to spend a day outlining the expectations of the role (because on top of everything else, this is a brand new position to the company), so part of that conversation is going to have to focus on how we relate and interact — and how that will change.

        1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

          I’ve worked in cuddly nonprofits where building personal relationships is encouraged, so I’ve been the employee who’s “friends” with the boss and also, the boss who’s “friends” with the employee. And I’ve also been in situations where someone who can’t walk that line turns it into a giant disaster.

          My advice would be that, in a boss/employee “friendship” the people both acknowledge the parameters of the other’s job, and that anything within those parameters is not personal. Ex: if I lose the TPS report and my boss’s boss is livid, boss is going to have to write me up, because that’s her job. And it’s my job to follow all of the other rules and regulations of my job, and directions my boss gives, even if I don’t like them. It’s my boss’s job to understand and respect that there are going to be some personal things that I can’t share with her, not because I don’t like her, but because I respect that she’s my boss and may have to make a business decision using that information. And in turn, we both respect that any personal information exchanged shouldn’t be used for personal gain. Usually, this works out- people build a relationship that’s based on knowing the acceptable parameters, trusting the other person to do their job correctly, and respecting that boundary appropriately.

          For the people where it didn’t work out, it failed when people started playing favorites or equating work with friendship. Giving someone plum assignments, or letting them escape consequences, or allowing them to do something blatantly against the rules under the guise of friendship, leveraging personal favors (I helped you move) in exchange for work things (so you have to go to this offsite meeting I don’t feel like), or oversharing information with each other and then using information that was shared in confidence to gain an edge against the other. Those were the situations where things ended badly.

          I hope this helps!

    5. CM*

      I don’t think it can work in the long term, because friendship requires equality and you moving into management will disrupt the balance of power. That said, the most harmonious approach is one where you respect each other as colleagues who have different roles and minimize the hierarchical parts of it. But even if you do that there will probably come a day when you have to choose between your responsibility to the org and your responsibility to your friend. Neither choice is wrong but you won’t be able to do both.

      1. Community mental health for the win!*

        My friend was promoted to my supervisor after working together for 3 years. First thing, we talked about the pitfalls of the new arrangement. I came right out and told her my weaknesses and what I saw as my strengths and we discussed how to talk about these things in the future. No longer my supervisor, but still my friend!

    6. ReallyReallyAnon*

      I wonder about this a lot, because there is a coworker I’d really like to date. We’re already pretty friendly but I haven’t screwed up the courage to suggest that we date (and I have no idea if she would be into that). In the back of my mind is that there is potentially a path where she would be my boss, OR I would be hers, depending on how things shook out. I could see it going either way (or neither way, totally possible).

      What happens if the person you are dating suddenly becomes your boss? Everyone says to “pull back on the friendship” so…do you break up? Because wow, that’s even more awkward….

      To be clear, dating is allowed in my workplace. Several marriages have been the result of intraoffice dating, actually!

      1. Jasnah*

        This is exactly why relationships and power differences shouldn’t mix. Your office shouldn’t allow you to manage each other if you’re dating.

    7. nym*

      I successfully navigated a former teammate becoming my boss a few years ago. What it ended up meaning was that we both pulled back a bit into manager-supervisee roles and stopped going out to lunch, and then a few years later when I was no longer working for her, we reestablished the friendship. For the four years I worked for her, I didn’t ask her to cat-sit, and we didn’t go out to lunch unless it was a team thing with everyone. Now we’re back to grabbing lunch one on one and having her babysit my cats when I leave town!

      So the pulling back is going to be important, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be deeper friends again in the future.

  48. Almost Academic*

    Tips for building better work habits?

    I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole of being unproductive while at work / at my desk. I really need to do better at actually doing my work, but for some reason sitting down and just getting it done isn’t clicking. I’ve tried behavioral reinforcements, scheduling specific times in my calendars, prioritizing to-do lists the night before, and for some reason it just…doesn’t work? I like my job, so it’s not a lack of interest either. I just get easily sidetracked by other more immediately reinforcing things (like chatting with friends on the internet). I definitely don’t have ADD/ADHD. Folks with general delayed gratification / concentration / motivation issues, tips for how to just *get things done*? Or build up better work habits, when you haven’t had them for a while and switching jobs/location isn’t an option?

    1. Less Bread More Taxes*

      Some kind of reward system has always worked for me. E.g., “I’ll look at Sara’s cat pics after I’ve worked on this report for half an hour” or “I’m not allowed to get tea until I’ve emailed out this request.” Working first thing in the morning also helps. If I can focus for the first hour or two, I find the rest of the day is way more productive.

    2. The Rain in Spain*

      I block my calendar with tasks I need to get done each day. Once I handle them I move the appointment to a follow-up date and it’s SO SATISFYING to watch my day ‘open up.’ Then once I’ve done everything I’m allowed to read some news/etc and then handle new issues as they arise. Or even start on the next day’s tasks :)

    3. Birch*

      I know this struggle. I think making to-do lists helps–and I mean ridiculously tiny tasks, like “respond to Jane’s email” and “write one paragraph on x” and “read this one document” (or “read one page of this document”). That combined with small Pomodoro sessions, like give yourself 10 mins to read the document and then take a break. There are ways to cheat, of course, so it’s not foolproof. Have you tried wesbite blockers?

    4. Overeducated*

      Do you have…enough to do? When I get unproductive, it’s usually because I am a little bored and underutilized, or I feel like the work I have to do is very unimportant. Getting some more or bigger tasks on my plate tends to help a lot.

      1. Lucy*

        I find there’s a sweet spot – too little or too much on my to-do list and my attention wanders.

      2. Almost Academic*

        I definitely have enough to do, but none of it is urgent. I think after a work life of *too much* to do at all times and all of it on urgent timetables, the slowdown might be impacting my motivation more than I think. Adding some tasks might make me more efficient anyways, thanks for the food for thought.

    5. Weegie*

      I experienced this for a while last year. The only thing that worked was DEADLINES! And external ones at that: self-imposed ones were not effective. Could you ask someone else to set some deadlines for various tasks? And then hold you to account?

    6. CMart*

      I’m a work in progress (hello! commenting from my desk), but it’s helped a little bit for me to have identified the underlying reasons behind my lack of productivity and to set some principle-based goals.

      Reasons for being a slacker:
      – Not enough work to do
      – Not many concrete deadlines
      – Very little oversight (lots of trust, “as long as the work gets done”)
      – The work is kind of boring
      – I know I’m moving on soon (changing departments in 6 months)
      – I’m honestly a pretty fast worker which exacerbates the first point
      – Kind of lazy
      – Don’t want to ask for more work to do, lest it mean I suddenly end up with zero downtime (the horror!)

      Principle-based goals:
      – Develop better work habits/focus (for when, someday, I have more/interesting work to do)
      – Be considered a good/great worker
      – Have concrete things to show for my work (not just having performed the transactional tasks)

      I truly WANT to be a better worker! But I also value getting to be a little bit (just a little bit) lazy and not being stressed out by work. I do want to ask for more work/find more interesting things to do, but first I need to get my own house in order. So I give myself deadlines. Self-imposed deadlines aren’t nearly as effective as actual deadlines (no one to disappoint but myself, and I am a very forgiving master).

      I write out my upcoming tasks/projects on my whiteboard and put in big, red marker whatever my personal deadline is.

      Even though I’m sure exactly zero people even notice, let alone care about what’s written on my board it gives me a false sense of being “watched”. It’s visible to anyone who walks by my desk, and in my mind I imagine that if someone walks by and sees a past date they’ll think poorly of me. And I want to be thought well of!

      It’s helping a little. I hope with practice (and perhaps some more self-imposed tasks to add to my list of to-dos) I’ll figure out how to stay busy with work at work and then can feel comfortable actually asking for more value-adding things to do.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      What everyone else said and one last thought:

      It’s one of my favorites when nothing else works, I scare the crap out of myself. Picture yourself unemployed, FIRED, and you cannot find a job. Your savings is running down, you’re embarrassed to ask friends and family for help etc. Picture this in vivid detail. Picture the regret, “Why did I fluff off like that? Why didn’t I just pick a reinforcement or behavior change and stick to it- make it work? I could have made myself do it if I tried a little harder….”

      In your free time, seriously reconsider do you want this job? Does it actually mean anything to you anymore?

    8. JR*

      Check out Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies – it’s a framework focused on how different people respond to expectations – whether they need internal or external accountability. Depending on your tendency, she has great feedback for how to improve your ability to meet expectations (your own or someone else’s).

  49. Person from the Resume*

    Work has sucked less in the last week than it has sucked in over a year. I got a new manager. I didn’t realize how much my previous manager’s style failed me. Generally I didn’t have many specific complaints about his hands-off management, but clearly it did not jive with what I needed which is a little more guidance and support. The new manager is diving into my project’s problems and asking questions. Sometimes it’s kind of annoying, but I need a bit more oversight to keep me motivated to work. I need someone to bounce ideas off of who’s not working for me.

    Also a year ago I depressed although I had been since at least December 2017 and had just noticed it. The depression ended around June or July 2019. I’ve been upbeat the past few months, but still was dreading work and counting the days until the weekend from Monday’s alarm clock.

    This feeling of not dreading work is nice. I hope it sticks around.

  50. Scheduling*

    Need advice from folks who schedule part-time employees for shift work! I publish work schedules for my team at least a month in advance. Generally people have consistent shifts — e.g. Sam will always work the morning shift Mon/Weds/Fri. Occasionally, however, someone will have a shift that is within their availability but doesn’t follow the pattern, either because someone has pre-planned vacation, or it’s expected to be a busy day, or whatever — so now in addition to their usual Mon/Weds/Fri Sam has the Thurs morning as well this one week because Chris is on vacation.

    When I publish the schedule I remind people to look through carefully so they’re familiar with their shifts since they may not always be the same. They all have constant access to the schedule through an app and website, which also has a function that lets them see only their own shifts if they want to look at that instead of the full schedule. However, I still get people showing up late because they didn’t realize they had a shift, or calling me in a panic going “When did I get scheduled for this Thurs?!” when the answer is, a month or more ago when the schedule was published, you just didn’t notice/pay attention/remember/whatever.

    Questions:
    1) Am I a jerk for sometimes giving people one-off shifts that don’t follow the pattern?
    2) Do I need to be individually alerting people when I schedule them for a one-off shift a month+ in advance?
    3) Do I need to be individually reminding people the week of their one-off shift?

    I feel like I should be able to expect adults to pay close enough attention to their schedules to notice this, but maybe I’m off base.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      1) No, unless you’re breaking an existing pattern
      2) No
      3) No

      Is this the kind of thing where people miss a shift once, and that’s enough for them to learn to check the schedule more carefully? Or is it happening more often?

      1. Scheduling*

        1) When you say breaking an existing pattern, can you explain more what you mean? I’m not understanding.

        It’s happened with three different employees in the past few weeks. So far none of them have done it twice, but it’s often enough that I’m wondering if I’m in the wrong.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          What I mean is, are these one-off shifts something new? Are you taking people who had a very consistent schedule for years and throwing something new at them? If so, it’s going to take some adjustment time.

          1. Scheduling*

            That makes sense. I’ve only been managing this team for six months, so it’s possible I’m breaking an existing pattern, but I find it hard to believe that none of the previous managers had to sometimes give one-off shifts. I’ll keep it in mind, though.

    2. Murphy*

      No, I think what you’re doing is normal. We used to have a schedule that came out once a month like that. We all knew we’d sometimes have to cover a shift for someone else, so while I won’t say it never happened that someone didn’t realize they were scheduled, it was pretty rare. We also had different colors for everyone, so the red might jump out at you on a Thursday if you don’t normally work that day.

      Could you mark unusual shifts it on the schedule with an asterisk or bold print or something?

      1. Scheduling*

        I can look into marking them differently! I’m not sure what options the app/site we use has for that, but I can mess with it. That’s a good call.

    3. Psyche*

      How often does this happen? I think if someone works the same shifts every week for several months, they very well could be caught off guard by a change and a heads up that they are scheduled for an unusual shift week of would go a long way (and be rare enough that it isn’t too much extra work for you). If this happens more like once a month, they should be used to checking their schedule and that would be a ton of emails to send.

      1. Scheduling*

        It is pretty infrequent. My first instinct was to just start trying to do week-of reminders, but I thought I’d ask for advice here for a couple of reasons: one, I don’t want people to feel micromanaged or like I don’t trust them to check their own schedule. And two, I have 25+ employees, and I can’t guarantee I’d always remember which shifts are one-offs to do a reminder. I can figure out a system to help myself remember if I need to, though.

        1. Natalie*

          How much room for error do you have? Could you wait until someone misses or is late to a certain amount of shifts, and then put them on a reminder list?

          Could you just offer a reminder list to anyone who would find it helpful?

          1. Scheduling*

            Coverage is a factor (we’re childcare, and we need to be in ratio), but I could offer a reminder list. That’s a good idea.

      2. LCL*

        They shouldn’t be caught off guard. But I have found you can tell some shift workers often and repeatedly that their shifts are subject to change each schedule and they will still miss the changes. Normally one tries to do the right thing by scheduling shift workers, which includes not moving them around unless there is a business necessity. But the longer they stay in the same pattern, the more they come to expect it. What I do, is I tell them in general terms that their schedule is different this time. That leaves it up to them to check it, and ask you about it if there are questions, without micromanaging. There will be a few employees that prefer that level of micromanagement.

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      Way back in the day when I worked in retail, my shifts were generally the same each week but they could always vary. It was my responsibility to check the schedule each week so I knew for sure what shifts I had, and the same went for everyone else. We did not have this problem. This is a weird thing going on with this group and it sounds like you need to have a conversation with them, a stern conversation, reminding them that their shifts are not set in stone and it is their responsibility to make sure they check the schedule and be at work when they are supposed to be at work. I was 16 when I did this without an issue. Even if you’re relatively new to managing this team, I can’t imagine that no one ever took a vacation before you got there that required someone to cover that shift.

    5. Lucy*

      1. No.

      2. Apparently yes – if not doing so is causing issues and you know you’re putting a non-standard shift in for someone, why wouldn’t you?

      3. No, if you’ve given them notice so they can update their own diaries.

      (In my retail days I once turned up for what I thought was a 11-6 shift but turned out to be an open-to-close shift as the keyholder – two other employees had had to kick their heels for a couple of hours! I still don’t know what happened but I didn’t get in trouble.)

      1. Scheduling*

        2) This is where I’m landing, certainly — apparently it’s going to cause issues if I don’t alert folks, so I’ll start alerting them. :)

    6. CDM*

      At OldJob we scheduled about 50 PT employees for shift work. We scheduled 8 weeks of consistent shifts at a time, with the schedule published about two weeks ahead of the start of each session.

      Any shifts that weren’t covered due to scheduled absences or extra shifts for busy times were left as open shifts and employees chose to pick them up via the scheduling software or telling management. That way we didn’t have issues with employees not knowing they were expected in at an unusual time, and we didn’t have issues with things like Jane is normally available Thursday mornings, but has a doctor’s appointment scheduled for the 21st and now we have a problem.

      From an employee perspective, having to look through the schedule with a magnifying glass every week just in case you got scheduled for something different, is definitely a pain, especially if those changes are infrequent.

      It’s also a good idea to look at exactly how much time and effort you are shifting onto your employees to check the schedule to save you the extra work of sending a heads-up email. If it takes me ten minutes every week to log into the website and look through the whole schedule looking for an extra shift, and I am scheduled for one every six weeks on average, it’s costing me an hour to save you a five minute email. Yes, there’s good business reasons to shift work onto lower-paid staff, but make sure that shift isn’t totally unbalanced.

      And think about if there’s ample opportunity for employees to carefully review the schedule while on the clock, or are you requiring them to check the schedule unpaid on their own time? If that hour is unpaid, and 50 minutes of it is a waste, I’m not motivated to check the schedule consistently. We had paper copies available to staff and they had paid breaks when they could review/discuss schedules.

      Good luck figuring out how to make this work best for your staff and your situation.

      1. Scheduling*

        All very good points! I could make one-off shifts open shifts, and just let people pick them up. My worry is then that the shift may remain open for a long time, and I may end up having to cover, if none of the people who could work it look at the schedule and choose to pick it up. (And I’ve had this issue pop up with people who intentionally took the shift — it had been open, and they picked it up a month ahead of time, and then day-of I’m getting panicked texts of “where did this shift come from?” It came from you. You chose it.)

        My employees can absolutely use on-the-clock time to review schedules and ask me questions, and I’ve offered to help anyone who wants configure their schedule app so they get notifications before shifts, all in their paid time. But you’re right, I can think about how much time it will take me vs. them, and take on more of that burden & brain work. Thank you for your input, and for articulating the employee side of this so well!

    7. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I worked somewhere where the scheduler did that (put subs in the main schedule, rather than asking people “Hey can you sub on Friday just this one time?) It ended about the same way you’re finding, that people didn’t notice that they had sub shifts.

      Some things I’ve found helped are using a calendar-style schedule (ex: so it doesn’t say Mondays 1-5 Joe, it lists out every shift of every day in a calendar format), changing the font color of sub shifts so they pop out (I use bright blue) and yes, manually confirming each sub shift with people before they’re scheduled to do it. I like to do a week out and then the day before, either verbally or by text. “Hey Fergus, just to remind you, you’re covering 1-5 this Monday, February 4. Thanks!” and then you at least have warning that he didn’t see that on the schedule and bought concert tickets and also forgot his name is Fergus because his friends have been calling him Ferg-izzle lately.

      The short version of this is, yeah you have to remind remind remind everyone if they’re working a shift they normally don’t.

    8. aNameGoesHere*

      It sounds to me like you are regularly publishing/sharing a document which is almost exactly the same each time, but expecting people to read the entire document the entire time. In general, either people won’t or can’t do that. It might be that they try to, but their eyes glaze over and they miss the difference because they can’t pay attention to reading a document which is almost always the same. It might be that they just decide it’s too boring. Personally, I get sloppy when I try to read a document which is mostly the same except for minor, un-emphasized differences.

      I recommend doing everything the same, but you highlight the shifts that are different in some way. Make it possible for someone to easily skim the schedule for any one-off shifts for them, and inform the workers when you make this change.

      (I’m not saying you’re unreasonable to expect them to do this without help, but I just think this has a much higher likelihood of success)

      1. valentine*

        If they choose not to look at just their shifts, which should make the one-offs stand out, that’s on them. It’s all on them, because a month is a great amount of lead time.

        Can the system send an email saying “weekday/date/time you’re scheduled to work”? I’m thinking the weekday would pop out at them. But it’s fine to expect them to read properly and to remember when they have a month to do so.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      If this was retail they would probably be fired the first time they missed a shift.

      You can encourage them to remind each other. If I am leaving early for an appointment and Jane is my replacement but she will need to come in early, I can remind Jane to come in early.

      You can also ask them as a group what can be done to prevent missed start times. Say it in a matter of fact tone but actually listen for answers. Stress that it is a recurring problem and it needs to be fixed. Notice you don’t say “stopped” you say “fixed” instead.

    10. Ann O.*

      Does the scheduling software have a way to automate reminders? It seems like it should and that would be a good way to get people the reminders they need without placing too much burden on you.

  51. I don't want to be (work) here anymore*

    For a bit of context I suffer from anxiety and depression and I know (logically) that this is just amplifying everything in my head exponentially. Apologies in advance for being a tad melodramatic.

    Anyway – over the past few months I’ve really, really started to hate my job. During my tenure here I’ve gotten 2 promotions and nothing but praise. But I’m not being given the resources and support I need to do my job and the powers that be don’t care that I am drowning in work (yes I have told them, very bluntly).

    So over the past month I’ve started applying to new jobs. And I’m having trouble dealing with the rejection. I know my job is taking a serious toll on my mental health and this just seems to be making it worse because I feel even more trapped. I have gotten one interview (out of about 15-20 applications) that has resulted in a reference check and a second interview. I was told I’ll find out in 1-2 weeks; that was about 4 days ago. Which of course means I’ve convinced myself that I didn’t get the job.

    Any advice for dealing with rejection and soldiering on?

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Don’t take it personally. I know it’s so much easier said than done. It took me eight months to find my new job. EIGHT MONTHS. But honestly I’ve never been happier at work- it’s the exact role I was looking for, I have a great team, and I get to do the kind of work I’ve always wanted to do. GIANT RAINBOW at the end of a miserable eight months. I had also quit my last job a few months into my search (I was SO miserable and we were fortunate enough to be able to afford it), which meant I could do a bunch of pro-bono volunteering which makes me happy and really helped counteract the sad gloomy rejections.

      Be selective in what you apply to- don’t think of it as waiting for a company to want to hire you, this is about forming an employment RELATIONSHIP. It’s as much about you figuring out if it’ll be a good fit.

      Set a limit for yourself- whether you’ll search for jobs for 1 hour every day or 4 hours on the weekend, carve out time for yourself to do things that make you happy. Otherwise job hunting turns into its own awful, depressing full time job.

      If there are opportunities for you to network in your field, consider going to events. It’s good to be social (I guess) but also sometimes that’s how you find out about a role, find a new company you might like to work for, or even get your resume passed on.

      Do whatever you need to do to manage your anxiety and depression- I wish I had some concrete advice for you here but I don’t. Is it hanging out with friends? Exercising? Taking baths? Something to help you balance it out with the stress of job hunting. One thing that helped me was to KNOW I was going to quit my job- it really helped me stop taking everything personally and feeling disrespected at work (most of the time). Having a friend to vent to also really helped.

      You will find a new position, it’s just a matter of when you find it. Soldier on!

      1. Quinoa*

        This. I know it’s tough to be rejected and that it feels personal because it’s happening to you, but learning to let it not be personal will free you. Because companies aren’t rejecting you, they’re simply choosing to hire someone else. It really isn’t about you.
        Best of luck to you. It’s tough to be unemployed. Keep at it.

    2. Murphy*

      No advice, just commiseration. I feel you so much on this. Job searching/rejection has the same effect on me.

  52. LadyByTheLake*

    Kind of just venting here. I’ve worked with a company now for seven years — I’m technically external, but they generally treat me as if I am internal. I work with a particularly difficult group — in the seven years I’ve worked with them, this group has had four different internal advisors cycle in and out of supporting this group, and every single one of them has found that the group is rude, unresponsive, unwilling to change and impossible to support. All of the internal people supporting this group have, usually after a year or two, refused to work with them any more. Also, every two years or so, this group announces that they don’t like me, that I’m difficult etc — all because I just stay the course, tell them what needs to be done and I don’t take their nonsense. Each time, I’m told that because of the complaints, I cannot support that group anymore, but since no one else will, I just keep plugging along, supporting them. I think that 99 percent of the people in the group like me and value my input — it is just a vocal minority that cause the problems. I just got a call again this morning that they are complaining (again) and I just don’t even know what to do. I like the work, I like the people (in general) and it is a substantial portion of my income. I’m tempted to just throw up my hands (like everyone else who has ever supported this group) and say “I’m out!”

    1. froodle*

      Bow out. Let them go unsupported. Sounds like you’ve done what you can for the stroppy messes, it’s on them and the people managing them if they can’t be pleasant to their support staff.

      1. froodle*

        Sorry, I just noticed the part where you’re external – are there other teams within that company you can offer support to?

    2. CM*

      It seems like their complaints haven’t carried much weight as far as kicking you off the project. Is it possible to just decide that you don’t like them either and keepon with it so you can keep the money? Like maybe if you were mentally like “Cool this is our annual anti- valentines again” and didn’t care otherwise?

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        I actually support lots of different groups in the same company, I just worry that the poison from the naysayers in this group can travel. It’s funny — years ago the first time that this “they don’t like you, so you can’t work with them anymore” thing came up I felt AWFUL. Anxious, lost a lot of sleep, depressed, self-conscious etc. This time it was just “eh, what else is new?”
        The fact of the matter is that since I’ve worked with them so long (longer that almost anyone has stayed in that group since it is so toxic that good people tend to cycle out quickly), I am the group historian — I know more about what has happened and why than anyone else. So even when I have to “step back” that tends to last for about ten days before I am back in the mix because no one else knows what’s going on. If only it didn’t pay so well!

  53. No Longer Indefinite Contract Attorney*

    Update on the guy who called me “kiddo:”
    He hasn’t called me that again.
    He DID call my supervisor that though.

    She was SHOCKED. I told her how I handled it and she seems to be mildly less inclined to snark than I am. XD; She’s at least 10 years older than me AND has two kids.

    1. Mimmy*

      Haha, this makes me think of a woman at a previous job who called everybody “kiddo”, including women who were her age and older! (50’s and 60’s). She was really nice (and one of my closest friends at that job), though, so I think she meant it as an endearment. This was a good 15+ years ago and would probably not fly in today’s workplace.

      1. Lauren*

        I grew up in the 80s / 90s and calling someone ‘kid’ was common like ‘guy’ is, and I still do it. ‘Kiddo’ feels worse and infantilizing.

        – Oh yeah, I know that kid.
        – Kid has some questionable music choices.

        Usually use it to refer to someone of similar age 35 – 45 who grew up using the term ‘kid’ the way people use ‘guy’ – maybe its a new england thing.

      1. No Longer Indefinite Contract Attorney*

        He’d been doing it off and on and hadn’t for a few months. He called me, I picked up with my full name, and he says, “Hey, you got a minute, kiddo?”
        I replied with, “Sure, what’s up, gramps?”
        Like 3 weeks later he came to my office and apologized for using that nickname for me and hasn’t since then.

        1. Lauren*

          Love you! Glad he was cool with how you handled it. Some men aren’t regardless of how nice you are to point out stuff like this.

  54. Chico*

    Tips for dealing with a supervisor with no industry experience? I’m talking if we make and sell teapots, he was an insurance salesman. For racecars. He’s heard that people drink tea and that teapots are a thing, but that’s it. He was brought in to shake up our department and raise morale but his presence has done the opposite. His lack of familiarity with any of our jobs (or teapots in general) is wearing thin. I think the C level is starting to become aware of the situation but what to do in the interim? It’s been over 18 months with little improvement.

    2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      No advice but I have some sympathy. My company brought someone in as a business manager who has no experience in our field, and as a result it seems that it has been more difficult than it should be to get basic things taken care of. This person seems to have the impression that replacing broken tools, replenishing supplies, and arranging transportation and accommodation for field staff are secondary issues to having meetings in the office. I’ve never met them but the stories I’ve heard are bonkers.

  55. SelfEval*

    Any tips on writing a self-evaluation that’s not either 1) self-flagellation or 2) overly confident and unaware? I feel like if I put “I made these mistakes” then I’m beating myself up, but if I put the reasons why then I’m just shifting blame. I want to own my mistakes and look at the reasons why so I can improve, but anything I write down that explains the reason for them just feels like I’m making excuses. Especially because the reasons are what I used last year, and so clearly I did not improve. But I also don’t want to be perceived as emotional, or bring any emotions into it all – my emotions are mine to handle and not my boss’.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      To me it depends on if the self eval are used to determine raises /bonuses. If they are, then I answer the questions honestly but also in the spirit of “best foot forward.” My boss can knock me down if he chooses, but I’m not going to do that work for him. Overall, do you think you’re a good employee? Perhaps an excellent one, or at least better than average? If so, make sure that’s reflected in your evaluation.

      1. CM*

        Agree. If this is you grading your performance give yourself a really good grade and let them argue if they disagree. I used to worry that that was immodest and then I had a total bully of a boss and I stopped helping him find fault with me. Never looked back.

        If the purpose is a post-mortem to talk about what went well or didn’t and how you plan to improve for next time and its NOT tied to compensation, then my advice is to look at it as a problem solving exercise and not accounting for your sins. If something didn’t work the way you wanted it to – including if following your own plan from last year didn’t work – it’s actually good to figure out the reasons why so that you can try something different.

        Pro tip: the reason is never “because I suck and I need to be a better person.” It’s more like “I had a plan to do X but I didn’t remember because Y. Knowing that, I have now come up with a plan for how to remind myself in spite of Y.”

    2. Aurélia*

      I would, and do, focus on what happened and what you did to fix it/make sure that it won’t happen again. Did you improve a process? Also, if you can measure anything, measure it! How many X do you process a week? How many days/weeks/months does it take you to complete an assigned task? This approach will have the benefit of a benchmark and something quantifiable for your manager who can use it to make some calls on aptitude and workload.

    3. Darren*

      You should be focussing on what’s improved. i.e. Rather then speak about how you have an issue with not getting projects done by the deadline, you are focusing on what you’ve been doing to reduce the frequency of this happening, and how those have been going.

      In the case it hasn’t been helping you should admit that and go over what you’ll be doing to try to improve it in future since surely you aren’t just going to keep doing the same thing that hasn’t worked this year.

  56. anonon*

    I have been in my position in higher education administration for a little over a year and a half, and in the field for about 7 years. My move into this role was lateral, and I had the same title before I started this role because I wanted to move into an area of Higher Ed that required experience in this niche area to be able to move up in this niche area. I’m also in a part time masters program focusing on this niche area. Normally someone would hold a graduate assistantship in order to get their foot in the door, but because i need to work full-time and be a part time student, I accepted a lateral position in order to get this experience.

    My supervisor asked me to take on new responsibilities above and beyond what someone with my title would normally do. To be clear, normally someone doing the kind of work that I am doing now is 2-4 paygrades above my current paygrade. We rewrote my job description to reflect these changes in responsibility, and he shared that he would be submitting this change to HR to request a title and compensation change to reflect the new role and expectations. I trust that my boss is doing everything in his power to make this happen, but a few months have passed of doing this new work with no change in title or compensation. He also shared that because of a current financial issue impacting the university, it could be several months before anything would likely change, if at all. I really like doing this work, but am frustrated that I am already doing this higher stress and challenging work without any additional compensation. The title I have also lends to having difficulty doing certain aspects of my role because I am not taken seriously. Normally people with my current title are strictly administrative, and I am engaging with high level administrators on critical incidents in a away that someone with my current title normally wouldn’t.

    While I enjoy this new responsibility, I can’t help but feel like I am being screwed over. I have been in this situation in past roles many times where a supervisor says they want to promote me without me seeking it out, has me take on new responsibilities well above my pay grade, but nothing tangible ever materializes. Again, in this situation I actually trust my boss is doing everything he can to make it happen, but when is that not enough, and how do i determine that it’s time to apply for that higher title/compensation elsewhere?

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Follow up with your boss, ask for a timeline. If nothing materializes, have another conversation but also start job hunting- I would think a year and a half is a reasonable amount of experience in this niche area for you to move into a new role.

      I had to do this, but I waited far too long to leave. My employer knew I was taking a licensing exam, we discussed changing my position, I passed the exam, we discussed again, and nothing happened. I brought it up two more times and finally quit. It was like being a fully licensed physician with a physician assistant role. Nothing wrong with the role I had except it’s not what I wanted to do, which they knew when I was first hired! Left and got a giant hike in salary and responsibilities.

    2. Semaj*

      I also work in higher education, does your institution award Temporary Additional Duties? They can be applied retroactively and it might be appropriate to discuss that you’ve been taking on significant work outside of your position since x date that you aren’t fairly being compensated for.

    3. Ghost Town*

      To some extent and as I’m sure you know, university timelines are long. These sorts of changes seem to take a long time. In my previous position, I updated my job description and tried for a job code upgrade. While my Director was the official communicator with HR, I remember being involved and on the communication train. As a result, I had no problem emailing our HR rep directly to ask for an update or timeline. I would also ask my Director, as well. I’m glad you trust your supervisor and they probably are seriously going after this change, but it just isn’t as important to them as it is to you. If you can, I’d recommend emailing your HR rep directly to get some information/make sure they have everything they need from you.

      I’d also second Semaj’s suggestion about Temporary Additional Duties pay. I detailed a bit more about my experience with that in a previous comment on this post.

  57. Anon anony*

    I’m at BEC with my coworker. She doesn’t work- she’ll boss me around and tell me to go fo something, even though she’s sitting there socializing with her friend. Boss and her are friends so she gets away with it. I’m overwhelmed and stressed. I feel like I’m doing the job of 2 people, but getting paid only 1 salary! What do I do?

    1. samandantha*

      I would suggest talking to your boss about the workload on your plate. Ignore the coworker not pulling her weight side of it and just keep detailed notes about all the work you’re assigned, completing, reviewing, etc. Then go to boss and address the responsibilities and ask how it might be possible to remove or limit some so you can ensure you’re doing quality work. That way, if boss brings up that Coworker should be doing some of these tasks, you have an easy segue into asking boss to clarify those responsibilities with both you and Coworker.

    2. NACSACJACK*

      I hear ya. We have a remote worker who is supposed to work certain hours on certain days. Today was one of her long days. She’s been away for 3 hours. :( My response is “I dont manage her. She”s not my problem. I got my own work to do.

  58. D.W.*

    I’ve written in a few times about pregnancy in the workplace. Well, my due date is quickly approaching (2 more months!), and my husband and I have decided that it would be best to move closer to family after the baby is born.

    I am going to remain at my job in my current location because we don’t want to switch insurance or doctors this late in the game, use my maternity leave benefit with my current employer (5 months) and then move at the end of the year. When would be the best time to approach my supervisor about working remotely and/or providing notice? Our organization does not have a standing policy about telework, but there are a lot of people that do. It’s very subjective, based on your manager’s comfortability, your productivity, and to some extent, the seniority of your role.

    I am prepared to leave if teleworking is not an option. My husband is 100% remote and is able to move anywhere, and we’ve saved a lot in anticipation of me not working for at least one year.

    I don’t want to broach the topic before my maternity leave, but I don’t know if waiting until I’m back in September is enough time. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      5 months leave is AMAZING. I will be getting 12 thanks to the FMLA, which is certainly more than many others get here, unfortunately.

      I would ask your boss about the ability to telework before you go on leave. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask about it. I currently work from home two days a week and plan to ask if I can work from home full time or 4 days/week for several months after the baby arrives because I want to supervise our child-care provider and breastfeed. I would not give notice that you plan to leave until after you’ve been back at work for a while. Here I believe it’s generally frowned upon to take your leave and then quit instead of returning to work, but it also depends on your work culture. Either way, 2-3 months of notice is PLENTY unless the norm for your role is significantly more time. But moving is a pretty good reason to leave your job!

      1. D.W.*

        12 months?! That’s amazing. Here, FMLA runs concurrently to the parental leave, which really sucks! That would have put me very close to a year.

    2. PX*

      I would actually say waiting until September isnt too bad! That gives at least 2 months notice and enough time to (hopefully) have a decision made by any senior people. I’d raise it as an issue within 1-2 weeks of going back to work.

    3. Elizabeth Proctor*

      If you haven’t done so, you might want to find out if your company has any policies in place about not returning from maternity leave. At OldOrg, there was an (unenforced) policy that if you didn’t come back (I’m not sure if it was at all, or if you had to come back for at least a month) you would have to pay back the employer-covered portion of your healthcare premium.

      2. BottleBlonde*

        My old company’s policy actually states that you have to pay back your maternity leave pay if you don’t return full-time for at least 6 months. But, it’s a very small org. that’s exempt from many regulations around these things. Not sure if they would ever enforce it.

  59. Lauren*

    My boss was let go, and I need advice for how to get his Director title and a salary boost – preferably the same $$$ since I am in Mass and I should get it. The only thing difference in us is age and a few years experience, which if I asked any of the powers that be ‘what his experience was’ – none of them could tell me on the spot, so I know that I should be paid what he was based on me taking on those responsibilities ESP if they can’t articulate the exception without looking up his LinkedIn profile.

    Both of us were expensive salary-wise and we couldn’t sell our service at a competitive rate. So he was let go for a mix of reasons, and they chose to keep me over him. I am slightly cheaper, but that wasn’t the only reason.

    Anyway, when they announced the layoffs – the powers that be stated that the company was lucky to have had 2 leaders on the team (team of 3 lol), and that I will be leading the service line with a new jr. hire. So my old boss from a few years ago (SVP) gave me was to come up with a plan to present of what I want the service line to be, operate, short-term, long-term goals, etc. and show how excited I am.

    So I can come up with a plan, but HOW and in WHAT presentation format should I be using? I want to come out strong as I have a feeling that I need to act now or risk being delayed forever. They need me now – I’m the only one left. I want the title now.

  60. Awkward anon*

    I had to explain a procedure to a male coworker. I started to tell him the steps and he became all huffy. He cut me off mid sentence and stormed off. I was surprised, but calmly walked away. My coworkers said that he can be moody, but now the guy is avoiding me to the point of walking another way if I see him in the hallway. What’s the deal?

    1. Four lights*

      It sounds like it’s him. He may feel stupid and be mad at himself that he doesn’t already know this, and taking it out on you.

      1. valentine*

        I would email my supervisor, so they know I couldn’t and can’t complete the task and so I’m covered when someone tells him he did it wrong or didn’t do it and he says you never told him how or frames your attempt in some wild, negative fashion (which may have been his experience, but don’t let him make you responsible for his feelings).

    3. CM*

      Moody is a code for angry in this case. I can’t say what exactly made him angry but it doesn’t have to be your problem.

      I would give him some space for now. If it gnaws at you, ask him why he walked away in a few days. But expect that the answer might involve him getting angry again.

  61. scorched*

    I am dealing with burnout at the moment. I am making some changes in my work and non-work life. And I am curious if anyone recovered from burnout and stayed at the same company? If so, how did you do it?

    1. DC*

      I don’t have a ton of advice, but do want to hear others responses to you!

      I’ve started trying to combat it by using gmail’s “inbox pause” when it’s after hours or on weekends.

    3. LGC*

      I’m…kind of in the same boat. It turns out that training for a marathon, working 50 hour weeks, and commuting multiple hours a day is not healthy for anyone!

      In my case, I’ve had to actually set boundaries with my job. Thankfully, they did not actually need me in all that time (I was productive, but it wasn’t essential for me). So if you CAN say no…do it!

      (I’m lucky in that I have a good relationship with my boss and she knew about me running New York last year – in fact, she told me to take more time off after the race. Which I took her up on. Unfortunately this was also the first week of the month and I’m the AR guy. I had a LOT of stuff to clean up that month.)

    4. Honoria Glossop*

      I did, by changing things slowly over time. Making it clear when I would NOT be available, and learning to channel my inner Elsa and Let It Go, or at least pause for a bit, rather than responding to every question quickly.

      Setting real boundaries between my work and personal life (i.e. I will NOT answer emails on weekends unless they are extremely urgent and are marked so, I will NOT attend meetings that occur after 10 PM or before 6 AM in my time zone) was the biggest help. It also helped me to think about the people I was hurting by being burnt out (children, spouse, friends), how I was setting unrealistic expectations for myself and other people in my position, and how it wasn’t “saving” anyone when I was putting myself at risk for things that could wait.

      Take the time you need to get your health back on track!

  62. WHAT WE ACTUALLY PAY YOU!*

    What are the thoughts on when companies provide a “what we really compensate you” document. Every year my company gives us a document that lists what we actually get paid. Including their contribution to retirement, bonuses, etc. My total compensation usually is about 15-20k more than my actually salary. I notice the document gets eye rolls from some. I find the document cute for some reason. We have great benefits and we get bonuses and merit raises. I have no complaints but I have never had this kind of document provided by previous employers.

    1. pmac*

      I like it, especially for a company with great benefits. I do a personal one just in case I’m ever job searching, so I can weigh the difference in benefits beyond salary.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      It’s usually a way for them to say “Hey, we don’t pay you enough, but that’s okay, because look at what your ‘total compensation’ is.”

      1. Darren*

        This is how everyone took it when my work sent it around. At best you are going look at all the things we offer, it’s okay we pay you a little less as a result and people agree. Most of the time people just think: Why are you paying that instead of giving me a higher salary I don’t need a bloody gym membership (or free snacks, or a playstation/pool table/etc).

    3. Elizabeth Proctor*

      A friend of mine who is definitely well compensated gets this, so it’s not just “look we do pay you enough”. It can be really helpful if you are looking for a new job and want to really compare the value of benefits, etc.

      1. Bostonian*

        Yup. It’s a pretty normal document to get. I get that it can seem like a dig to some who feel underpaid, but it’s meant to be a pretty objective document of what your benefits are.

    5. Nessun*

      I find it an interesting document, because people can forget that while they are paid decent salaries, they are also receiving a veritable cornucopia of other benefits, some of which they may have difficult valuing in dollars. Plus if I ever wanted to change companies, I’d use it to compare new salary/bonus/benefits to get a whole picture of compensation – dollars to dollars isn’t a good way to compare jobs, in this day and age.

    6. CDM*

      It’s a nice bit of transparency.

      So many employers blamed the ACA for premium increases when jacking up employee healthcare contributions in recent years (premiums, deductibles and copays) and most employees have no way of knowing whether that’s true or if their increased payments are funding the owner’s new vacation home or being distributed to shareholders.

      Most employees in the US have no way of knowing how much their healthcare really costs per year.

    8. CM*

      It depends how the info is delivered and what the overall mood in the office is. I can think of scenarios where it might come across as hostile but usually only if it’s worded really rudely or there’s already bad blood.

    9. Lilysparrow*

      My husband used to get this at one of his jobs with a large nonprofit. It was really useful, first to make sure we were fully taking advantage of everything (like matching retirement contribution). And also, in job hunting to be able to estimate the salary level that would be needed to replace any benefits that might not be offered at the new job.

    10. NewNameJustForThisBecause*

      It’s very helpful to me. When I look at changing jobs, I have to remember my rich benefits. When I add the pension/savings contribution and the Cadillac health plan benefits (and the many weeks of PTO) to my salary, it really helps put my life in perspective.
      Then I try to value the intangibles. Being able to work from home 100% of the time and having coworkers that treat you with respect and kindness… flexibility in my hours? (took the dog out for a walk for my lunch hour).
      Balances out a lot of the dysfunction of working somewhere that has management poor planning causing my urgent problems at least once a month. And it takes 18 months to get anything done – and 10 years for a major infrastructure project to see the light of day.

      1. Community mental health for the win!*

        I worked for a dysfunctional non-profit who used to present these at our huge annual meeting. One year, the presenter said, “See! You’re actually overpaid!” Went over like a ton of bricks. Especially to the front-line staff who all made under $40k in a high cost of living area. Ugh.

    11. Me*

      My AmeriCorps deputy director argued that when you consider the government assistance you recieve (WV did the medicaid expansion and boy did i take advantage of that, not putting off health issues) and the education award at the end of your term, why you almost make $20,000!

  63. Honoria Glossop*

    Am I too cold when announcing my pregnancy?
    I’ve been in the same company for about 9 years, and have had my 3 children during that time. We are (happily!) expanding our family again, and I think that my approach to sharing this news is unsettling people.
    At the end of a team meeting, I’ll say basically, “On a personal note, I wanted to let you know that I am expecting a baby at the end of April/early May. Let’s make sure we have a plan to finish my part of our current projects prior to that time, and I will let you know more about who will be covering for me as those details are worked out.”
    People will say Congratulations, or express happy surprise, I will say thank you, and then turn the topic back to work. But it feels like people are wanting to discuss it more. I get questions about where/how I will be delivering, who will be watching the older siblings, whether it was planned, etc. I don’t have an issue discussing these topics personally, as they’re very much part of my life right now, but I have tried to keep my work personality pretty professional, and it’s not really the place to debate hospital/birth center/home birth, etc. (which has happened). I’m also very aware that there may be colleagues who may be struggling themselves/don’t care at all about this/or are a bit annoyed/squicked out by it, and this is neither the time nor the place. And above all, I don’t want to be stigmatized for being a “breeder” or have it assumed that my work will suffer because of the new little one.
    I read the recent post about announcing pregnancy, and the discussion about avoiding pregnancy announcements after a miscarriage. I thought by being matter of fact and making it about work, I could keep it relevant and professional, but I keep feeling that they’re wanting something more personal.

    1. Lily Rowan*

      I think you are right on the money, but I am also a person who wants to keep my work life professional/a little distant in most circumstances.

      1. Consuela Schlepkiss*

        Agreed. Keep on keepin’ on, especially since some people have apparently tried to debate you about your choices.

    2. The Rain in Spain*

      I think you’re handling it very well! I haven’t announced yet at work but I plan to just tell my boss and immediate team members. I feel like pregnancy is one of those things that people feel entitled to ask a bunch of intrusive (even if well-meaning) questions about, and I’m going to try to avoid getting into that as much as possible.

      Congrats :)

    3. Blue*

      As someone who has experienced miscarriages, thank you for announcing your pregnancy at the end of a meeting so that anyone who needs to can more easily step away to process it in private.

      Regarding whether it should be more personal: I think you are saying exactly the right amount! If your coworkers want to ask you personal questions about your pregnancy, it’s much more appropriate to discuss them after a meeting with the select few who are interested. I would not feel comfortable answering those questions in a meeting, and I like my coworkers! I certainly wouldn’t expect a coworker to answer such questions in a meeting either, so I don’t think you need to feel pressured to do anything differently.

    4. Ranon*

      You’re providing about the same amount of information that I did with mine- i.e. the information that is actually relevant to work! The additional questions you’re getting don’t affect your work and mostly don’t even have anything to do with ithe people asking those questions in any capacity, work or otherwise. People can want more personal info, but they don’t need it and I don’t think you need to provide it (and certainly not in a work capacity, geeze).

    5. hello*

      If someone asks more probing questions you can say “let’s talk about that after the meeting” if you’d actually welcome that. If not maybe there is another way to get everyone back on track on the adgenda

    6. kittymommy*

      At an old workplace of mine our boss announced her pregnancy, also her fourth like this ” And to close so everyone knows, in about 6 months or so I’ll be poppin’ another kid out so I’ll be gone for a bit.” One of the newer employees was so excited for her and was very expressive about it. Finally the boss had to explain to her that this is their fourth in about 5 years – the thrill was gone.

  64. Faith*

    I have officially entered my last month of pregnancy, and I’m just sooo uncomfortable. Sitting for extended periods of time gives me leg cramps. Standing for extended periods of time gives me back pain. Walking too fast/too far gives me contractions. I also don’t get much sleep, so I am completely exhausted. How do I stay sharp and actually get stuff done?

    1. Four lights*

      I’m on month six and already uncomfortable. I have an alarm on my computer that goes off every hour to remind me to take a short walk around the office. It seems like noting but makes a big difference. Yesterday I walked five minutes on the treadmill, and even though my back and hip started hurting I think it overall made me feel better. My leg cramp went away. I find prenatal yoga is helping too. It’s mainly light stretching but it makes a huge difference. I would say try to change positions and do your best. If I’m really tired I drink some coffee. I started going to bed earlier.

      I would say forgive yourself for not being at the top of your game and prioritize as much as you can. If you’re able to pass off some tasks onto someone else. (I’m thinking like an admin.)

    2. Honoria Glossop*

      I’ve had success taking B12 in the middle of the day when I start getting too sleepy. I also plan my workload to have a few “lighter” tasks for times when I just can’t focus, and work on my more detailed assignments when I’m feeling refreshed.
      Walking around every couple hours, just a lap around the office, can help too, and the kind of contractions that start/stop with exercise are typically not considered to be labor-inducing.
      Congratulations on your little one, and good luck!

      1. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

        If you can access a swimming pool, I highly suggest that! Being able to float/paddle/swim regularly helped me SO much! Takes so much pressure off the body.
        Also, a unitard. Yeah, a pain to get in and out of, but the full body support/constriction felt good.

        1. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

          If you can access a swimming pool, I highly suggest that! Being able to float/paddle/swim regularly helped me SO much! Takes so much pressure off the body.
          Also, a unitard. Yeah, a pain to get in and out of, but the full body support/constriction felt good.
          Mostly an all over feel better suggestions, rather than what you actually asked!

    3. Lady Kelvin*

      I feel your pain. I’m due in two weeks and I’m not nearly as productive as I should be (its our super busy season and I need to set everything up to run smoothly while I’m out). I have an exercise ball to sit on at work as well as a foot stool so I can elevate my feet a bit. I also negotiated working from home on Wednesdays to give myself a bit of a break. I tend to wake up at 3am every day and not be able to go back to sleep for a few hours. On the weekends, I can sleep till 8 and feel somewhat rested, but I wake up at 5 for work and so usually that means I wake up at 3 for work. Working from home once a week means I get to sleep an extra hour and a half so it helps me survive substantially. I also have gone home ~1 hour early occasionally to take a nap and then work more in the evening. I know not everyone’s job can allow for that, but those are what has allowed me to survive so far.

  65. Human Embodiment of the 100 Emoji*

    Anyone have any tips on how to ask someone to refer you to a job (in academia)? I had a professor who is close with the head of a department at another university where I’d like to apply for a (non-faculty) job. I’ve taken a class with her and got a pretty stellar grade.

    Up until now I’ve just told connections that I’m applying to the place where they’re connected and hoped they got the hint that I would like them to put in a good word. I know this probably isn’t the right approach, but asking “hey can you tell them I’d be a good candidate” seems rude. Anyone have a template/suggestions on what to do?

    1. Psyche*

      Ask if she would be willing to provide a letter of recommendation. That is pretty common in academia. She may then volunteer to put in a good word with the head of the department or not, depending on if that is something she is comfortable doing.

    2. Nice Going Angelica*

      That’s not weird or rude at all. “I recently applied for the Emoji Designer position at University, and I think I recall that you’re connected with Professor X there. If you’d be comfortable recommending me, I’d be so appreciative if you’d mention it to her to look out for my materials.” I’m assuming that you’re close enough with your professor that you know that they would remember enough about you to give a recommendation, but if that’s the case, this happens all the time and is nothing to feel weird about!

  66. Overeducated*

    I’m sitting on a mess at work and not being transparent with my coworker is killing me. My work was heavily impacted by closing for a month at a critical time. Before that, my supervisor asked if I would go on a temporary assignment to another office to fill a need elsewhere in the organization. Two days ago, supervisor confirmed that plan is still going forward, but said it’s not 100% certain so please don’t talk to anyone about it yet.

    Yesterday, we found out that the decision from On High is that despite the major deadline that passed while we were closed, my coworker and I still have to complete the same amount of work on a highly compressed timeline. This is bad because there is a lot to do and we can’t actually control how long some parts of the process take. Coworker was SO MAD after we got the news…and doesn’t even know about my temporary assignment falling during the worst crunch time. We’re talking about how “we” are going to handle this, and I’m not supposed to tell them, “actually, it’s just going to be you.”

    I sent a quick text to my supervisor after our staff meeting to ask if the assignment was still going to happen, supervisor said yes and we’d talk today, so I hope we do. If coworker is going to have to do both of our jobs on a shortened timeline, it seems really disrespectful to keep that a secret and not give them more time to plan just because my assignment might fall through. I am worried it is going to harm my relationship with the only other permanent member of my team and the person I work with most closely day-to-day.

    Just ranting. Advice welcome too, I think.

    1. Overeducated*

      OK, apparently posting here must have been a psychic trigger to my boss, who called me about 2 minutes after. Takeaway: there is a plan, and we should be able to talk about this in the next few days. Coworker is still going to be mad but there may be someone else coming in to help. Fingers crossed.

  67. Me*

    Hey I’m the anxiety riddled AmeriCorps who had a video interview. We did have technical difficulties but the office was great until the train went by and then stopped next to me, rattling the building.

    I tanked the interview though oh my god did I ever.

    Things continued to worsen so I said that’s it, I’m done. I planned to leave this past sunday. The Sunday before, I got a job offer from the zoo in my home town! I’d applied weeks before. I even committed a big job hunting sin and said look, I really don’t have grounds experience but I do love the zoo and being active outside. I got the job! Start god willing next week (I did have edibles in Colorado in mid-May so…)

    Pay is terrible ($9/hr) but it’s full time, set schedule, health insurance, and crazy PTO. 2 weeks vacation, 7 personal days, 5 sick days. And chance for zoo advancement after 6 months.

    It’s the zoo!! It’s nowhere near my degree but it is part of my overall interest/career path/inspiration for my degree so yay!

      1. Me*

        Grounds stuff – taking care of the exotic plants and resodding… not fully sure yet but no mowing, that’s a different crew.

        I also had to tell my brother-in-law no elephant poop cleaning.

        Some people have been like “…oh” about it being grounds work but it’s at the zoo so they’re just wrong.

        1. Lost*

          I’ve always enjoyed gardening, yard work and taking care of indoor plants, so exotic plants sounds fun to me.

          And as you said, it’s the zoo! That’s cooler than doing landscaping type work for normal businesses. :)

    3. Overeducated*

      Yay, congrats! The best job I ever had was one that didn’t pay much, but was a lot of fun in a place I cared about and got to be outdoors a lot. It started as a “why not for now?” job that actually turned out to be a key early step on my current career path. I hope yours works out that way too, and even if not, I hope it’s a great experience that gives you some stability and breathing room.

      1. Me*

        Me too! I’m excited about having definite work to and being active all day.

        I’m staying with my mom for free (gotta pay rent to the old place for 4 more months) and she is having that brain surgery soon so it works for both our health issues!

        And for my ego and resume… zoo feels better than other hourly work I’m qualified for. (Petco’s application process is bonkers.)

  68. FaintlyMacabre*

    I filled out an online application that has to be submitted via email. Okay, easy enough. But it required a signature, and there was no way to do it electronically. That meant I had to print it, sign it, scan it, then submit it. Whhhyyyyyyyyyyy? And then when I emailed it, I got a cheery response about thanks for applying and make sure you filled out these portions of the application, which are different the instructions that were on the application. I give up!

    1. Me*

      Hey I don’t know if you’ll see this but I had to do that so many times last year that I ended up cropping my signature out of a scanned document and saving it as an image. I drop it on the form and bam! No printing!

      I don’t have adobe pro or anything, it’s really easy.

  69. Duckles*

    Can anyone help me weight two job opportunities? They’re both kind of dream jobs in very different ways. I’m leaving my current very high-paying job in search of better hours.

    1) very unique job with a startup.
    -Full time remote (this is both really interesting because I like that I can move anywhere and my job comes with me, working from my own desk, and having no commute or dog walkers, but I think I will miss having a “place to go”/coworkers).
    -salary is 45% of my current salary (I’ll have to budget but enough to do live comfortably). Ok benefits
    -I think it will be an “easy”/lower stress job with more regular hours, but I’m not sure if after the burnout wears off I’ll enjoy that long term or start to get bored.
    -No obvious career path

    2) more traditional role with prestigious institution
    -long commute and very formal office (suits, ugh)
    -60% of my current salary– could live current lifestyle with minimal changes. Good benefits
    -It will likely be overall better hours but day-to-day as much or more stressful than my current job
    -people stay in these jobs a long time and have good opportunities if they leave

    So as you can see, I /want/ to take job #1, because the whole reason I’m leaving my current position is hours/stress, but #2 has been my Dream job I’ve been working towards for years and a “smarter/safer” career decision. This is also likely my only opportunity at each type of job because they’re very rare. Help.

    1. Mediamaven*

      How far along are you in your career? If you are young, I’d really suggest taking opportunity 2. My advice is neither here nor there but now could be a critical time to build your resume. Also, I took a really unique job with a start up and it was awful, so I’m biased.

      1. Duckles*

        Ha I guess that’s relative– I’m 7 years out of grad school. I was at my current place long enough it looks good on my resume and I’m very marketable, but yes while everyone seems super nice and experienced at #1 it is a big question mark for sure.

        1. valentine*

          Is 2 really a dream job or just a dream employer? I can’t imagine choosing to earn less, and certainly not so much less, but if you’re really okay with that, go for 1.

    2. CatCat*

      Well, for me a long commute is an absolute dealbreaker.

      While #1 does not have an obvious career path, I think the paths open after this will become clearer after you’ve been working there fore a while. The remote work sounds like it will be an adjustment to you and there are strategies to adapt. One idea that I have seen that seems to help a lot of people is to do their personal morning routine, get dressed, and then go for a walk outside for their “commute” and get to work when arriving back home. Same process for the “commute” home except once you’re home, you change out of your clothes and now it’s personal time.

    3. PWK*

      I don’t know how long is too long of a commute for you, but for me, anything over 25-30 minutes has a HUGE negative impact on my quality of life. I hear you saying you’d miss having coworkers, but there might be other ways to get professional socialization, like joining a professional association if your industry has one or going to alumni events at your university.

      I also feel that the lesser income of job 1 might be made up for by the lack of money spent on commuting, hiring dog walkers, etc.

      Also, is there any specific reason why you’d have to take such a huge pay cut for both jobs? That really seems like a lot, although obviously I don’t know your specific situation.

      1. Duckles*

        I’m coming from a job that pays the top of the field and demands very challenging hours/availability as a result. Almost any job will be at least a 1/3 salary cut. More money is obviously good but anywhere from about 40% of my current salary up works for me and money isn’t a very important factor in the job decision above that threshold.

    4. AnonyMouse*

      Honest opinion that I’m slowly learning as I gain more work experience- life is too short to spend 40+ hours a week unhappy. I’m not necessarily telling you to pick #1 or #2 with this advice, but I’d take that into serious consideration when weighing your options.

    5. ten-four*

      Speaking from experience, start-up jobs are stressful af. The hours tend to be pretty long too! Also not to be awful, but startups are kind of a dime a dozen – if #2 is a good long term move and pays so much more than #1 I’d heavily lean in that direction.

      Honestly though, if you can’t decide – maybe neither? Both have some pretty serious drawbacks, and it sounds like you’re marketable.

      1. JR*

        This was my concern, too – if you’re looking for fewer hours and less stress, I’d be worried about a start up (though of course fewer hours/less stress is relative to your current job).

    6. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I would lean toward #2. But I’m not a WFH person as I would get distracted and get nothing done.

      Is it feasible for you to move to within 30 min commute of #2? Not right away but eventually. That would improve your QOL.

    7. NewNameJustForThisBecause*

      If #2 has been your dream job that you have worked towards for years… why isn’t it your first choice?
      I’m pretty social, and I have to say, I’m working from home now because of family obligations, but I definitely benefitted in my career and my social skills from working in the office (4 days in, 1 day from home) the first two big jobs after grad school. You build a strong network.

      Read further up) about adding in benefits/ retirement contributions, etc. in your salary estimates.
      That makes a huge difference.

      And… for the really big commute- others have suggested some things… but I also carpooled with a great set of coworkers (and then one specific one) at various stages, and it was very helpful. Really cut the stress and built in buffer time for me. Made me be crisper about leaving work at a specific time, and gave me a reason not to stay (but I could take things home).
      I also listened to all 100 great books via audio during that time. Wonderful for me to turn my brain in a whole different direction.

  70. SadMidwesterner*

    My manager was supposed to do my annual review two months ago. She finally scheduled it this week, and then pushed it to next. Now she’s saying she wants to take me out to lunch and do it at the restaurant. I have some pretty big asks and questions I need to bring up during this time, and I’m worried things could get tense and then we’ll have to drive back together. Is there any way to politely decline the free lunch without setting off red flags?

    1. coffeeforone*

      Eek! Could you say something like: “that’s such a nice offer, but I feel a bit more comfortable and in the zone for a review when I’m our familiar office environment. I’d much prefer to do the review in the office, and schedule a lunch for another time so that we don’t feel as rushed to complete it during lunch. Is that okay?”

      1. Lisa B*

        Yep, perfect way to bring it up. Good sign that there’s probably nothing that bad in your review though, or SHE wouldn’t want to do it in a restaurant either. :)

  71. damngcoffee*

    I’m usually a lurker on this site, but I’m currently having a work-related issue and I’m curious if anyone has had a similar experience/can offer any advice or consolation:

    I recently turned down a job and am now (a couple of months later) seriously regretting it. It was really suited for me and my experience, and I had reasons for turning it down at the time, but I feel differently about those reasons now. I don’t know how often that kind of opportunity will come along, and I’m really kicking myself about the whole thing.

    Has anyone ever turned down a job (or missed out on one) and regretted it? How did you get over it?

    1. Overeducated*

      Yup. Time helps a lot, and eventually you will have other opportunities that you would not have been able to pursue with that job. Also, when we think about regrets, we tend to think about what we missed out on in the best-case scenario, and not how things might have worked out badly (even though there were probably good reasons you turned down the job). So try to imagine the bad alternate futures, not just the good ones.

      1. damngcoffee*

        Thank you for saying that. I’m in a slightly better place about it then I was last week, where I couldn’t sleep or relax because I was so mad at myself. The reasons I had for turning it down had to do with it not feeling challenging enough in terms of duties, but since that time I’ve kind of realized that I don’t need to be on the particular kind of upward trajectory I thought I needed to be on (also I’m totally burnt out). But I will keep in mind what you said here, about different opportunities that I might not otherwise have gotten, even if I can’t anticipate them now, and about not assuming that job would have worked out perfectly anyway (if I wasn’t challenged enough it might have gotten to me sooner rather than later).

        1. valentine*

          Maybe you only egret it because you thought you’d have something else by now, in which case it’s not real regret, it’s a false choice between that job and nothing. Past You made the best decision they could and Future You will do the same. Just be careful not to jump on the next opportunity out of fear of further regret.

          1. damngcoffee*

            Thank you. I am trying to keep things in perspective; but I have put an end date on my current work situation, assuming I have something in place by then, because I don’t want to stay in a place that is causing burnout (and has been causing burnout) for an extended period of time if I can avoid it. I definitely agree that a big part of the regret has to do with wondering if anything as ‘dream job’-like will come around again.

    2. Jules the First*

      I said no to a once-in-a-lifetime job (world-leading company, running my own newly-created department, a 40% pay increase) in October 2016 because it was a really brutal commute, has a reputation for being one of those companies that offers huge opportunities but eats your life in return, and I had other offers that paid almost as much and offered better work-life balance. Three weeks into my new job I knew I’d made a mistake turning down the other job. When I got laid off from said new job five months later, I took it as a sign from the universe and called the dream job recruiter on a whim…and they offered me the job again (the gal they’d hired didn’t work out so the role was empty again).

      18 months later, I’m having more fun at work than I have in years, and while yes, the commute is horrific and the hours are insane, I can genuinely say I love my job.

      1. damngcoffee*

        I’m glad that you were able to get the dream job! I don’t think mine is still recruiting at this point, as the job is no longer listed and they had wanted someone by January. If it goes up again I might contact them, but my situation is a bit different for a couple of reasons:

        1. I say I ‘turned down’ the job, but I didn’t officially get an offer. I withdrew my candidacy, and they wanted to see if there was anything they could do to change my mind about it.
        2. I gave them actual reasons I didn’t think I was right for the job, having to do with it not aligning with my goals down the line. I now feel differently about it, but it’s hard to walk back from that and say ‘oops, I was wrong!’ without creating ill-will or a feeling of disbelief.

        I’m curious, though, what did you say when you contacted the recruiter? Did you just say the other job didn’t work out? (You absolutely don’t have to tell me, obviously, I’m just interested as it seems like a tricky situation.)

        1. Jules the First*

          Oh that is tough – it’s hard to come back from if you pull yourself out of the process early. If it helps, it sounds like you made the right call – it’s easy to think you’d be totally ok with a less demanding job when you’re burnt out, but the reality is you’ll end up bored and unhappy after a few months when you’ve recovered from burnout (at least if you’re anything like me). The good news is that if it’s burnout making you unhappy, that’s fixable! Think about what kind of boundaries you’d set in a new job to avoid burnout and make baby steps towards those in your current job (which will also help by giving you more time and headspace to job hunt).

          As for reclaiming the dream job, I just called the recruiter and was honest: I explained that the job I had taken was not as advertised and that some things in my life had changed so I was less worried about the commute and the hours (which was true – I was no longer burned out!), and that I was really regretting passing on the role because it sounded fantastic. She then told me that they were looking again and that the hiring manager had been talking about me, and they ended up sweetening the deal with a small schedule adjustment so I could continue to go to a class one night a week that would otherwise be prohibitive because of the commute.

          I’m a firm believer that the right job comes along when it’s right for you, so by definition the ones you don’t get were not the right job. Hang in there!

          1. damngcoffee*

            I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful reply; thank you.

            My burnout has much to do with our management & organizational culture (the heads of the place where I work either retired or left in pretty quick succession about 1.5 years ago, and the new people who came in have markedly different values and management techniques) but I am definitely going to take that all into consideration as I’m continuing my search. I’m so glad everything worked out for you and that you’re on the other side of burnout now!

  72. Petty Rubble*

    Ok, is this me being petty? I’m new to my job and making OK pay for my career. I’m 26 and the youngest on my team, unmarried, no kids. But I also have a bunch of student debt and bills like everyone else, and I pay for some of my parents care. For our job, we are required to have lunches and breakfasts for business. If we’re traveling, this is covered, but if we are doing it in town (which is often) we don’t get it covered. It’s not too expensive, maybe $5-10 per meal, but it really adds up over time! Like at least 10 meals a month. It’s not optional to not try it because part of the job is evaluating these meals.

    I thought this should be an expense absorbed by the company, but apparently not. When I brought this up to my boss, she guffawed. She said it wasn’t as expensive as an average lunch, and also I don’t have kids so OBVIOUSLY I should have enough money. I also negotiated for a higher salary and I guess in her mind that justifies me paying for it and being fine financially?

    But these are meals that if I wasn’t working, I’d be packing my own lunch for and not spending money on. And I’m sure I could absorb the cost and wouldn’t die, but it’s also money I could be saving or using on non work things. It also just bothers me on principle. Am I in the wrong? No one else seems to be bothered by it, but then again, I’m the main person in the role so I’m the one doing it most often with buying meals.

    1. DC*

      I am of the opinion that if it is a job duty and required, then the company needs to cover it. It is a part of their working expenses.

      1. Petty Rubble*

        Is there any other way I can push back? I’ve already brought it up with my boss as mentioned and have been brushed off. I’ve only been here for 3 months so I don’t want to rock the boat. But also. Dang.

        1. Agent J*

          Is it possible to speak with whoever owns the enforcement of the policy or who approves your other travel expenses (if not your direct manager)? I’m thinking HR rep or Grandboss. It could be perceived as going above your manager but you have a very valid point. Mandatory company expenses should be covered by the company.

          1. valentine*

            Look up the law around it. It’s work, so your time should be paid, too. If they consider the lunches your lunch break, that’s wrong and possibly illegal as well, because you’re working. Even if you get a paid lunch break, the law requires you to have an actual break if you’re non-exempt. It may be that they are committed to being unethical or breaking the law, in which case leaving is the best solution.

      2. Honoria Glossop*

        Seconded. If these are mandatory business breakfasts/lunches, they should be covered by the company. It’s not on you to subsidize this expense.

    2. Need a Beach*

      That’s nuts. I would not be okay with being required to pay out for restaurant (?) meals instead of having the option to provide my own groceries.

      Is this something you knew going into the job, like being a restaurant critic for a newspaper? Or is it more of a side skill to the field?

      1. Petty Rubble*

        Well, I knew I might be eating a few meals for the job but I knew it wasn’t the main part. And I had assumed that it would be paid for, because I asked if they paid for travel and meals. Apparently the meals in town aren’t covered. I hadn’t even considered that.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      It may be just as expensive as the average lunch, but I also save a ton of money just by packing my own lunch, and you should have that option. If they require you to have breakfasts and lunches for business, you should be able to expense those.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      If my company wants me to use something specific, they buy it for me. They absolutely should be paying for these meals if you’re required to buy them. I’d bring my own lunch and decline to pay. I mean, if your job is to evaluate the food, you all could share one dish to try it.

      Now I’m curious what kind of work this is! I think some secret shoppers don’t get reimbursed, but they get to choose their assignments, so they can use their money to buy what they need/want and might normally buy anyway.

      1. Petty Rubble*

        I often go alone now, so no one to share with. I guess I could pretend I ate it and no one would know the better… I don’t think they’ll pay for it. I just don’t see it happening now after bringing it up. Sigh. Maybe this is not my hill to die on.

        I am a dietitian that does evaluations for organizations and schools. So again, my main part of the job isn’t eating the meals but it’s part of it.

        1. CM*

          Oh 100% they should be paying for that. The fact that they’re brushing it off like it should be no big deal for you to do it is concerning and maybe a sign that they’ll want more sacrifices from you later on.

          I know you don’t want to make waves but I think your only move might be outright refusing to pay for it. If you don’t start setting boundaries now things may get worse.

    5. Murphy*

      I think you’re totally in the right. If it’s a required business expense, they should be covering it. Your co-workers may just be used to it, but your company is definitely in the wrong.

    6. animaniactoo*

      If they mandate it because they need somebody to do it, it is a business expense and they need to treat it as such.

      You’re not eating there because you want to. You’re eating there because THEY want you to and need that information. They get information by paying for it – not by paying you and then taking back part of your salary to subsidize their business expenses.

      I would push back again and state that you simply would not pay for this on your own, certainly not at this rate of frequency, and if they want you to continue to do it in the interests of data collection, you will need the company to cover it because the company is the one that wants the information. Hold the line and see where it gets you. You might also want to say something along the lines of “I was really taken aback that you think that because I don’t have kids I should be able to afford this easily – I’m not sure why you would think that kids are the only big expense someone can have, there are lots of other reasons.”

      Separately, have you tried checking in with HR about this?

    7. Sleepytime Tea*

      I’m very curious as to what your job is that requires you to eat out. What your position is might make a bit of a difference. But anyway, LEGALLY speaking, the federal government does not require your employer to reimburse you for business related expenses unless when you deduct those expenses from your salary it puts you below minimum wage. I know California has a state law which is different, and other states might too, which you should research. If they are violating the law by requiring you to do something out of pocket, then using Alison’s go-to script about how “we” need to be in compliance by reimbursing all employees for this type of thing is the way to go.

      If your state does not have a relevant law, then unfortunately this is just a shitty thing your employer is doing. For example I had a company that when we were traveling they wouldn’t let you expense your lunch, because if you weren’t traveling you would still be providing your own lunch during the workday. They didn’t care that while traveling I didn’t have the option to bring lunch from home. It was stupid and petty and they were just nickle and diming their employees. But it wasn’t illegal.

      You can talk to HR about it if your boss is put off by you bringing it up and unreceptive to the conversation, but ultimately they have the right to make that policy and stand by it. You may, however, be able to claim it as an unreimbursed business expense on your taxes, but that’s a whole ‘nother ball of worms.

    8. hello*

      Would you be able to eat a sack lunch before the meeting, and then order a water when you are there ? You should not have to pay for it, but this could help in the short term. I’ve done that for things like a boss’ birthday lunch, where you know that you need to go for career reasons, but don’t want to pay to eat out.

      1. Natalie*

        It sounds like eating the thing is required: “It’s not optional to not try it because part of the job is evaluating these meals.”

    9. The New Wanderer*

      The argument that you should be able to afford it is a red herring. It makes absolutely no difference and should just be ignored. I mean, it comes across like your manager is okay with financially penalizing you for not having obvious expenses like children, and it doesn’t sound like the people who are parents are getting their meals paid for (though are you sure about this?). Similarly, the fact that you successfully negotiated a higher starting salary, it’s irrelevant when it comes to normal business expenses. Finally, whether the meals were part of out-of-town business travel or not shouldn’t matter – you are still travelling (if locally) to these places to buy the meal for work purposes.

      The bottom line is that meals required to be purchased as part of your job are just as much a business expense as your work computer, pens, notebooks, etc. However the meals are covered while you’re on travel, I would use that same process for the local meals – AFTER clarifying with the owner of the policy that this is a normal business expense (really, it is). If they say it’s not, ask them to explain exactly why local meals are not reimbursed when you can’t do your job without them.

    10. ThrowAway*

      I have no idea what the norms are in your field, but this sounds super-weird to me. If part of your job is evaluating the meals, surely you shouldn’t have to pay for them? They should be either comped by the organization making them, or if that’s not ethical because you’re evaluating them, covered by your employer in one way or another. Maybe check with the dietetics association, or with other dieticians, about how this should be handled?

  73. LargeHippo*

    I have a question about salary expectations in a given field. How does one actually research what the market salary is for a certain title/role? I’ve only been using Glassdoor for their salary estimate because I don’t know where else to look. Colleagues are very tightlipped about their salary so I don’t have any info from others in the industry. Here’s something interesting I’ve found though – I work just outside a major city so that’s the city I put in when searching the average salary. If I put in the city I actually work in, which literally borders the major city, the salary is $20K higher! I Major city’s average salary is below my current salary and actual city’s average salary is right around what I’m making. Any advice on other places to do research is much welcome as I really want a new job but worry that I’m overpaid and will not get a comparable or higher salary elsewhere.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Colleagues are very tightlipped about their salary so I don’t have any info from others in the industry.

      I think asking someone her own salary point blank (“Hey, what do you make?”) usually catches her off guard and makes her immediately defensive, even if she’d be comfortable sharing in other contexts.

      One thing you can do, for the people who know you’re looking, is ask what they think is reasonable for X position or Y position. They will give you a sense based on what they know, and part of what they know is their own salary. They may even volunteer it in this context.

      Also, if you’re part of a professional group outside of work but related to your work (a mailing list, an online forum, a Slack), you can put together your own informal salary survey of those folks.

    2. SimplyHired*

      I’ve had a lot of succes with simply hired. I’m in an area with wage tax in the big city and the burbs where I am pay less. Simply hired has been pretty on target (especially when I didn’t check and lowballed myself).

    3. Marthooh*

      Google “government listing of job salaries” and you’ll get a bunch of sites to look at. I don’t know which of them are the most accurate, but it’s a place to start. And don’t forget to ffactor in cost of living in different areas.

  74. Erykah Badu*

    For my marketers:
    Do you feel pressured to specialize (e.g., social media, SEM/SEO, email, etc.) to remain competitive or valuable? Is the general marketing manager still valuable?

    1. Question is*

      Do you want to specialize? Is there one industry or niche that has held your interest more than others?

      The problem with specializing is that sometimes you get pigeon-holed into that niche. For example, I worked at a “llama grooming business” marketing company not doing any pharma advertising. Guy applies for job with 3-4 jobs listed on his resume in pharma advertising. Guy basically states that he is looking to move out of pharma advertising but we didn’t give him an interview because he did not have any experience in our type of marketing.

      I believe brand management is still valuable, but do you want to be on brand side or agency side? Something else?

      1. Erykah Badu*

        I don’t want to specialize but I feel like I should to command a higher salary or move up in seniority. I enjoy social media marketing but I don’t have enough specific experience to do that exclusively. I’ve worked at both agencies and brands but I think I lean more toward agencies.

        Essentially, my experience is more marketing strategist / generalist with an eye toward senior leadership. But the job market, in terms of opportunities and salary, seems to favor those with more specialized experience.

        1. Question is*

          But wouldn’t CMOs need to know all types of marketing? It can be a good idea to look at some CMOs LinkedIns and see how they got to where they are. Is there a way you can forge a similar path without specializing?

          Personally, I think if you want to be agency side, you will have to specialize; a lot of agencies I’ve seen are more specific, such as media buying, advertising or social media. Of course, some *say* they can do it all but the bulk of their business is generally focused in a few areas. Given your experience, you may be able to get into an agency that focuses more on social media marketing, especially if you already have some of that experience., if you do find that you have to specialize.

  75. Need a Beach*

    Happy polar vortex! A pipe burst in a stairwell yesterday, flooding part of my building with hundred of gallons of water. To their credit, our facilities team had a water damage/mold remediation company on site within three hours.

    Anyone else having cold-weather-related work issues?

    1. Ali G*

      We got a surprise!!! snowstorm this morning. I may or may not make it home from work…
      But thankfully I am not in the Polar Vortex, just an east coast city with unseasonably, but doable cold. And surprise snow.
      Stay warm and safe everyone!

    2. Wulfgar*

      I’m a pet sitter, so it’s really effecting me. I let the dogs out to run around for a minute or two, then bring them in. Warm up their paws and repeat. They are going to be really happy if the warm weather comes through this weekend.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      For some reason my building chose January to upgrade the roof structure to support a bigger HVAC unit, so in the already-cold section of offices, the drop ceiling has been removed. That removes the insulating air layer….brr!

    4. Ktelzbeth*

      I started complaining about how cold word was last Friday. On Tuesday, they officially announced that one of the boilers was out. Half the building was too hot as they cranked the heat to try to get it to diffuse into the other half. They decided to close Wednesday, for the worst of the cold here, because they didn’t know how well the heat would keep up. No damage, since it never got below about 60°F inside, but I did move out of my office on Tuesday, since it was one of the coldest spots.

  76. robineer*

    Hi all, how long does it usually take for Alison to post a question she answered? I asked one a couple weeks ago, and don’t want to post it here if it’s in her queue. I understand she gets a lot of questions and mine isn’t urgent.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It varies wildly — it can be days, weeks, or months, depending on what grabs me when I’m looking for questions to answer. (It’s occasionally been as long as 8-9 months, just because the volume is so high and things get buried.) And because of the volume, a huge portion go completely unanswered, just because of lack of time. But you can always email me to see if I’ve got it slated for an upcoming post or if it’s better to post it here.

      1. robineer*

        I had a feeling, your blog is so popular after all! Thanks for answering. The question I sent in was pretty low-key, so a few months wait is understandable.

  77. Flying Ghoti*

    Is it normal to have to take vacation time for an internal interview? I interviewed for a promotion a couple of weeks ago and was asked to take vacation for the time spent interviewing because “that’s what you would have to do if you were interviewing elsewhere.” I didn’t push back at the time, and I understand that interviewing prevented me from doing my regular work so it does make some sense. On the other hand, I was a strong candidate and it was in their best interests to spend the time interviewing me to determine if I was the right fit for the job, and I think it would have been a nice courtesy to allow me to interview on “work time.” I was just wondering if this is standard practice? This is academia, if it matters.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Unless the interview involves travel, I don’t think that’s normal. But I also haven’t done a lot of work in academia, so I don’t know about that specific area.

    2. Murphy*

      If it’s a promotion in your department (and not a departmental transfer) that seems pretty weird. I don’t necessarily think it should be required for a transfer either, but it seems very weird if it’s in your department.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      I find the very unusual. Basically you had a meeting with someone else in your office regarding something that benefits the business (finding the right employee for the promotion). Not standard practice.

    4. Flying Ghoti*

      Another thing I realize I should have mentioned is that it was a lengthy (5-hour) interview process. Not sure if that changes the calculus on this.

      1. CM*

        No it still sounds weird. The closest I’ve come to that was an interview scheduled outside my normal shift that didn’t count as work time. But taking vacation for an internal meeting, even if the subject of the meeting is you interviewing for a job? Never.

    5. CatCat*

      I am not in academia so I don’t know if that changes things.

      This sounds really weird to me though and their explanation is BS. I mean, “because that’s what you would have to do if you were interviewing elsewhere”? What? You’re not interviewing elsewhere when you’re interviewing with them.

      1. CatCat*

        I mean, if I were not really feeling super excited about this prospect, I would be super tempted to say, “Oh, okay. I need to my vacation time for those other interviews then.”

    6. The Rain in Spain*

      Not in my experience, but I don’t have this specific experience in academia. Super weird.

    8. LCL*

      I don’t know about academia but it’s not standard practice here. In fact one of our people has filed a grievance because he was scheduled for an interview during bankers’ hours, which our group doesn’t work. He was expected to do this for free.

    9. Binky*

      That seems super weird. You take vacation time for outside interviews because you’re doing something for yourself that has nothing to do with your job/organization. Interviewing for a promotion is entirely related to your currently job, so vacation makes no sense. Sure, it took you away from your regular duties, but so do lots of other job activities (organization wide meetings, continuing education, team building).

    10. Paquita*

      I had an internal interview yesterday. Same department, different group. Just went into the conference room with the hiring supervisor for about 30 minutes. My boss was at lunch so I didn’t think to let her know. Told a coworker I had a meeting. That was it. Several years ago I interviewed for a internal position in another department. They work nights so I went back to the office about 7pm. On my own time but that was OK. I wouldn’t expect to be paid for that as it was my choice. And fortunately the commute is only about 15 minutes.

  78. NotPuttingUpWithThis*

    So I recently started a new job. It was a change from what I was previously doing (think academic going into unrelated admin/office work). I was worried about getting away from academia, so I ignored a bunch of warning signs. To be fair, some of them turned out to be fine, others unfortunately, not so much. It has gone from “oh, I guess my boss is a bit difficult, but I’m sure I’ll manage” to “oh my god my boss is completely unreasonable and I’m being warned left and right about how unreasonable”. Accordingly, I have gone from “I’m sure I can cope for a couple of years and move on” to “I’m fine if this never ends up on my CV I need to get out asap”. Now that I’ve made my mind up it’s even harder to put up with the absurd expectations, lack of boundaries and increasing unfriendliness, but I’m too broke to quit without having something lined up so I need to keep going while looking for a way out and not unnecessarily antagonise anyone in the meantime. Any advice on dealing with a dysfunctional work environment when you’ve got zero fucks left to give?

    1. CM*

      My mantra was “no stress no stress no stress.” Whatever came up, I dealt with it in whatever way put the least amount of stress on me and stopped caring about anything else.

  79. Polar Vortex Survivor*

    For those of us in the land of the polar vortex: did your offices close?

    I live in Minnesota, where the air temperature was -25 Tuesday night – Thursday morning (and windchill ranged down to -50). My organization stayed open.

    I wasn’t surprised; I work for a nonprofit and while we don’t provide any emergency/essential services (like a shelter), we do provide a number of direct services (mental health clinic, day care, services for adults with dementia, etc.).

    But I was surprised that there was NO communication about it. The schools were closed Monday – Thursday; the post office didn’t deliver mail on Wednesday, grocery stores were closed, all sorts of events were canceled, lots of friends were posting on social media about their offices closing down… and we didn’t hear a peep from management about whether we’d be open, what options people had for working from home/taking PTO/etc.

    (I run a leadership cohort program, and we did cancel our Thursday morning session. I assume some of our other public programs canceled sessions as well.)

    What did your offices do?

    1. Natalie*

      I’m also at a NFP in Minnesota. My office was open – we provide medical care, so basically if the clinics are open we are open. But, they were communicative about the situation and were very flexible for anyone that couldn’t get in or had childcare issues. Lots of the office people can and did work from home.

      My spouse is also at a NFP that operates affordable housing properties. They closed their office and gave everyone free days off, but weirdly did not require the maintenance to report as essential employees. That said, they are *ridiculously* disorganized / badly managed so I wouldn’t take it as best practices. He had buildings that wouldn’t lock automatically because the hydraulics and lubrication were frozen.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      My sibling lives north of the wall and was expected to be in the office. The job could be easily worked remotely. Yet sibling drove in every day this week like good (idiotic) employee. I found a meme from Shrek that was like “Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make” — he said it perfectly surmised his company founder’s attitude.

    3. Never*

      I’m in Michigan, where it was -10 on Wednesday and -17 Thursday morning. My office never technically closes completely. There were a couple e-mails sent out about how to stay safe in cold weather and encouraging people to work from home or take PTO as needed (which a lot of people did). When the company that shares our parking lot did close, we were offered their parking spaces for the day (we don’t have employee parking).

    4. SophieChotek*

      Minnesota here also.

      I was surprised too that some businesses that could have emailed all their customers did not. For instance, local coffee chain did not use their app/email system to say “hey many of our locations are closing early, check with your local location” sort of thing.

      I actually work remotely so my office was still open. But I seriously think the cold affected my internet connection (despite everyone telling me it was not possible), so I told my boss (who was reasonable about the situation) that I would still be working but I might not be able to respond quickly to his emails and would need to do projects that were not 100% dependent on internet.

    5. Stephanie*

      I’m in Michigan. We were told to work from home Wednesday. Interestingly enough…we weren’t told to work home from Thursday (it was just as cold in the morning). But a lot of coworkers with children ended up working from home or taking the day off. I believe our plants may have kept running, sigh.

    6. LimeRoos*

      Also in Minnesota, at a NFP healthcare company. We were open all week, but had about half staff most days with people taking off for the cold. I work across from one of our clinics, and there were a surprising amount of patients who made it in Wednesday, at least the parking lot was pretty full for how cold it was. Definitely sucked popping out every 2 hours or so to make sure the car started though.

    7. Art3mis*

      Omaha here, which didn’t get the brunt of it, but it was still -37 wind chill Wednesday. We didn’t close, schools were though. Plenty of people who are able to work from home did, but I don’t currently have that option.

      I know a lot of people in Chicago, and it was a mixed bag, some work places closed, but most didn’t.

    8. The Ginger Ginger*

      Chicago here! We were told to seriously consider our safety and the feasibility of transportation (a HUGE percentage of workers here take public transit – because Chicago. And bitterly cold weather and trains don’t play well together) when deciding whether to come in. We can pretty much ALL work from home if needed, so that’s what nearly the entire office did on Wednesday, and most of the office did on Thursday.

    9. char*

      I’m in Chicago, and our office was closed on Wednesday and opened late on Thursday. Salaried employees were expected to work from home, but hourly employees were given a paid day off (most of our hourly employees couldn’t work from home even if they wanted to anyway). A lot of people ended up calling out entirely on Thursday, which everyone was very understanding about.

    10. ala*

      I’m in the Twin Cities. At my office HR/leadership told us to take safety into consideration and work from home if desired, and my department head echoed the statement. Considering how brutal the cold was walking to my car Tuesday evening (thank heavens it started) I was more than willing to take him up on the offer despite my aversion to working at home.
      Our office pre-super bowl potluck was supposed to be on Wednesday. We have postponed it until Monday and renamed it the Super Cold Potluck.

  80. Peaches*

    Overly frugal Office Manager story!

    For my job, about once a month, I have to cut about 500 laminated pieces of paper into what we call job cards. Our office has one paper cutter, which is suspected to have been here since well before the year 2000 (I was born in 1993, fwiw). Anyway, this paper cutter is absolutely AWFUL. Totally dull blade, loose arm, etc. It’s a huge frustration every month when I have to cut such a large volume of paper with this cutter. I’ve reached out to our office manager several times, requesting that we purchased a new one. Every time, she tells me to have one of our service employees (who have a blade in our warehouse) to sharpen in. However, the paper cutter is so old that it makes no difference. The blade is still extremely dull. After using and being frustrated with the cutter yesterday, I went to the Office Manager for probably the sixth time over the last year and told her that the sharpening was no longer working; the cutter was old, and well past its last leg. She reluctantly told me to find a new one online, and she would “consider buying it, depending on the price.” I found a couple different options, one for $39.99, and the other for $49.99. I emailed her the options, to which she replied, “Wow, you found some good deals! Last time I looked for one, I couldn’t find one for under $200, which I wasn’t willing to spend. I’ll get one of these for the office” I’m glad we’re finally getting a new one, but it’s extremely irritating because we work for a highly profitable company where even a $200 paper cutter would be considered chump change.

    1. SophieChotek*

      Hopefully it will do the job.! (the new paper cutter!)

      But I work for a company like that too…wants to stuff staff 4 to a hotel room and insist on red-eye flights to save money/not having to pay an extra night of hotel, but then does not blink to spend millions on some pet project….

      Frustratingly frugal and weirdly extravagant in other ways

    2. give me the tools I need*

      Congrats to you! At LastJob, I was told my department couldn’t afford less-often-used office supplies, so I bought a sturdy paper cutter with my own money for office use (beats hand-cutting with scissors). The Admin reimbursed me.

    3. Slartibartfast*

      Penny wise, pound foolish. I bet she’s paid more than $200 in wages spent on your struggles with the paper cutter when you could’ve been done and on to different things.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      Hey, I currently have the wonderful job of organizing a trade show on a $1000 budget. That includes the booth!

      2. SophieChotek*

        How…? Some of the trade shows I am looking at for my company, the booths alone cost $50,000….
        How…is this evening possible…unless this is a super-small trade show in the town where your company exists, and you don’t have to ship your products there….

  81. pmac*

    I’m getting a promotion yay! I’ve been getting 0.2% raises for the past two years because HR says I’m at the top of my pay band already. Now… how do I ask what my new salary will be? And if it’s in a different pay band? I have weekly 1:1’s with my boss and would love some scripts.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      You should negotiate your salary, not ask what it will be.

      Before your next one-on-one, try to get a sense of what an appropriate salary for the new role will be. If you know what band it’s in and what that pays at your org, that’s super helpful. Otherwise, follow the usual guidelines for salary research so you can go in with a range in mind.

      I’d say something like: “I’m so excited about the promotion to Program Director! I realize we haven’t had a chance to talk about the salary for this role. What do anticipate the salary will be?”

      If it sounds good: “That sounds great. Thank you!” If it’s lower than you were hoping for: “Ok, thanks. I was hoping for something closer to $X. Is that a possibility?” You also don’t have to respond right away — you can say: “Ok, thanks for the information. I’d like to think that through. Can we check in about this again tomorrow?”

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        My bad. Apologies for not closing the italics. In case it’s hard to read, here’s the comment again:

        You should negotiate your salary, not ask what it will be.

        Before your next one-on-one, try to get a sense of what an appropriate salary for the new role will be. If you know what band it’s in and what that pays at your org, that’s super helpful. Otherwise, follow the usual guidelines for salary research so you can go in with a range in mind.

        I’d say something like: “I’m so excited about the promotion to Program Director! I realize we haven’t had a chance to talk about the salary for this role. What do anticipate the salary will be?”

        If it sounds good: “That sounds great. Thank you!” If it’s lower than you were hoping for: “Ok, thanks. I was hoping for something closer to $X. Is that a possibility?” You also don’t have to respond right away — you can say: “Ok, thanks for the information. I’d like to think that through. Can we check in about this again tomorrow?”

    2. Public Health Nerd*

      Yeah, agree with Victoria. At OldJob, you could also just call a certain person in HR to learn what pay bracket it was. If your org is big enough, you might be able to go that route to at least get a ballpark.

  82. CheeryO*

    Sorry if this is TL;DR, but I’d love some thoughts on this… I have a coworker who was out for part of 2018 following an accident. She’s back now, but she can’t perform one of the main duties of our position due to residual effects of the accident. She doesn’t have any formal accommodations as far as I know, but there isn’t really any way around the issue other than to have people do it for her. Her recovery has been extremely slow, so there’s no telling when she’ll be able to do that aspect of the job herself. It will most likely be several more months at least.

    The other day, she emailed me and another coworker who is also at the same level to ask if we could start helping her with that part of the job. I forwarded the email to my boss and hers and asked how we should handle it. I haven’t heard back and sort of don’t expect to – we’re state government, so things are weird.

    Part of me does just want to help her since I feel bad that she’s still struggling, and I like her a lot as a person, but I’m also afraid that this could escalate if I don’t draw some sort of boundaries now. What could start as half day, once a month commitment could easily become much more frequent depending on what’s going on, and while I have the time now, I definitely won’t always. And our work is 100 percent individual, so there’s no “greater good” to me helping, really, other than that her job that isn’t getting done would now get done.

    I’m also finding it hard to be objective about this because I’m annoyed that she’s gotten away with doing almost no work in the few months that she’s been back. She was not a great employee before the accident (partially because she wasn’t trained well – that’s a separate issue), but now I get the sense that we’re all supposed to treat her with kid gloves because of the accident. My boss has said vague things about how the three of us need to support each other because we’re all new-ish and the rest of our department is almost ready to retire, and he specifically asked in my last performance review if I was helping her out. It’s not my job to train or supervise her, and people have filed grievances with the union in similar situations, since “out of title work” is a big no-no in our web of bureaucracy.

    I guess my question is, is it worth escalating further if no one is willing to give me a straight answer on how to handle it? I’m okay with helping out for now and crossing my fingers that it doesn’t become an issue down the line, but I also feel like that’s a slippery slope.

    1. MuseumChick*

      What a crappy situation all around. I see a few options 1) Tell you that you want to get clearance from your and her boss first before you help her with the task. 2) Help her but make your boundaries clear “I am available from 1pm – 3pm” and if the requests become more frequent “Sorry, I’m not available.” repeat as needed. 3) Help her and keep detailed records of the time you are spending doing this task. That way you will be able to show your boss just how much time you are taking away from your own job to help her.

      1. CheeryO*

        Thanks for the response! I did already tell her that I can probably help, but I probably won’t go out of my way to make myself available if I have other stuff going on. I’m definitely planning on documenting the time spent regardless, at least on my Outlook calendar. I hope she’ll be able to do it herself soon, but I can’t help overthinking it and expecting the worst.

    2. Kathenus*

      I think you’re handling it perfectly. Get with your boss first to 1) make sure she wants you to handle it, and if yes 2) get clear prioritization from her on where this falls in your list of duties, or if needed what job(s) you will not be able to do to support this task.

      I get the frustration with her, but I’m sure she’d rather have not had this accident happen and she’s probably dealing with a lot in addition to work still, so maybe let that part go and just support her within the framework of your job (versus doing it as an ‘extra’ thing in addition to your job), with your bosses input. By doing exactly what you are now and reaching out to your boss for direction first, I think you can lessen the slippery slope concerns. Good luck.

    3. LadyGrey*

      Would it be worth seeing if you can trade your help with Physical Thing for her help with Something for you? It might help balance out the good will bank a bit, or at least make it less annoying for you.

  83. GuiltTrip*

    I work at a small non-profit, which has always been really poor at handling promotions. This year, a VP told my direct report that she would be promoted this year at her annual review (without talking to anyone about who works directly with her). Upon further review, it was decided that she shouldn’t be promoted.

    She was understandably very upset, and I had to be the one to break it to her. To add to my guilt, I did also tell the VP that I didn’t think she should be promoted (i.e. she was just promoted the year before; she wasn’t meeting some benchmarks others have met in that same position). I wasn’t the only person with say in the matter, but I sense that she feels betrayed by the organization, but also by me. She had told others at the organization that she would be promoted as well, so I think she also could be feeling embarrassed that now it’s not happening. I explained the rationale for her not being promoted as best I could, but how do I stop from feeling guilty about the situation?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      You don’t need to feel guilty. Your org screwed this up, not you.

      But it does sound like you may need to have better ongoing communication with your direct report about her performance. Ideally, she should be really clear about where she stands with you (so, for example, if she heard from the VP that she’d be promoted she’d at least pause for a moment and consider that that doesn’t align with what she’s hearing from you).

      1. valentine*

        Learn to detach. Were you raised on guilt? Because you’re too involved with this person who isn’t doing as well as you think she should. It’s not even that she was at 90% but 97% was the minimum for promotion and you feel bad for her. The VP’s and report’s blabbing isn’t on you, so where is this coming from? Do you identify with her? You don’t have to feel so bad just because she feels bad. Be clear on what you need her to do, and in what space of time, to get from where she is to a promotion, set benchmarks, and see if she meets them.

    2. Nessun*

      Don’t feel guilty! You didn’t do this to her, it’s just a thing that happened – as can happen to anyone. She needs to learn to step back, the same way a person would with any new-job interview that they thought went amazingly well: just because you think you aced it, doesn’t mean you got it, so move on until someone gives you a concrete offer/proof/documentation. She needs to learn to think in those terms; you need to let it go. You’ve supported her as much as you can within reason, given her performance and the organization’s needs.

  84. Anon here again*

    I was confirmed for an interview, but when they sent my interview schedule, it listed a different time. I thought it was an error, so I questioned it. They replied, “Oh. You can’t come in earlier?”

    Has anyone had this happen before?

        2. The New Wanderer*

          “You’re not available earlier?” + “We’re like family!” = “We don’t respect your time and you don’t even work here yet, so don’t expect that we’ll respect your boundaries if you do work here”

  85. Lost*

    I posted last week about how I’ve been been unemployed for over a year and need to take any job I can get, and would need to keep job hunting if I got a low paying job. I asked when I could put a new job on my resume, and posters thought I should wait at least a few months.

    I was thinking about this and am wondering what I would do if I needed to fill out an application instead of just submitting a resume (the kind that ask you to fill in your *current* job and previous jobs). Would I not fill in a job I’d been in for less than a few months, and only mention it if I needed to explain why I wasn’t free to interview at any time?

    1. Murphy*

      Even if you’re unemployed, companies shouldn’t assume that you’re free to interview at any time.

      1. Lost*

        But they’ll think it’s odd if I ask if I can interview at weird hours. Like if I had a 9:00 to 5:00 job, asking if I could interview before 8:30 or after 5:30.

    2. Person from the Resume*

      A resume is a marketing document and you are not required to list all jobs you’ve ever held or all degrees you’ve gotten.

      An application is different. If it asks you to list your previous jobs, it should be filled out completely including your current short term job. Especially if it says, list all previous jobs, list last 5 jobs, etc.

  86. PWK*

    Any other social workers read AAM? I’m in my last semester of my MSW program, and am increasingly dismayed at the low salaries offered to those of us with freaking MASTERS’ degrees. I’m browsing online job boards and am incredulous that companies are offering $35,000 for six years of schooling (most jobs are offering $40-45, however, which I still think is way too low). This is a huge reason why I’m looking to go into non-social work jobs such as HR. I’m SO OVER us being under-valued—and to be honest, sometimes frustrated with my fellow social workers for being willing to accept it. I get that sometimes you just urgently need a job, but this is a systemic problem.

    Anyway. Thanks for letting me vent. What do you guys think?

    1. InternWrangler*

      I hear your frustration, and I think you need to look at the whole system. Many nonprofits are funded by the government. Government contracts almost never cover the full costs of the program; additionally, the rates are often set for multiple years without any increases to cover cost of living. If services are reimbursed through insurance, some of the same issues apply. We expect our staff to be billable for about 50% of their time. Government contracts or insurance don’t pay us for no-call, no-show appointments–nor do they allow us to include the fundraising costs it takes to make up the difference. Add to that, that many foundations are only offering single year grants, and many of them want to fund something new, not the same old program services. The human services nonprofit sector is facing significant pressures, as they try to serve increasing needs.
      I don’t know a single agency that wouldn’t like to pay their staff more. But they are balancing staying in existence. Don’t just advocate for higher wages; advocate for increased funding. You might be interested in the report, A National Imperative by the APHSA and the Alliance for Families.

      1. $!$!*

        Yes. just last year I called an employment assistance nonprofit to see if I could fit in a patient from my hospital and they had run out of grant funding literally a month before.

    2. $!$!*

      LCSW here in the south. Yes, it was awful. When I graduated I did part time (PRN) work for a mental health clinic and for a hospice. Between both I pulled in $40k before I got in full time at a hospice ($50k) and now at a hospital ($60k). Yes it was soul sucking to apply for jobs with no pay range or with $35k listed. I could also moonlight now with my license but I’ve been so traumatized that I think I’ll rest on my hefty salary and insurance! And for the record I paid for my licensure out of pocket but it was totally worth it to get the current job I have now. Good luck!

    3. Anonymousaurus Rex*

      I’m not a social worker but I work with many. You didn’t say which fields you’re looking in, but if you would like a competitive salary, I’d look into health care companies. Case managers with MSW degrees make $50-60,000 at my company.

    4. Barb*

      It’s really hard. The profession is really undervalued, especially considering the cost of schooling. No advice, as I’m not in that field, but sympathy! Social workers deserve more.

  87. Fresh Start Needed*

    I just accepted a job offer! I am leaving the job where I have been struggling for 2 years, and where I felt increasingly worthless and ashamed. Some of it was just a bad fit, some of it was my (recently diagnosed ADHD), some of it was my lack of experience and skills. And I honestly think some of it was that I’m a little bit lazy and stupid – though I am continuously told not to say that.

    Either way, I’ve built some bad coping mechanisms and poor work habits, along with general low confidence and anxiety. How can I let that go and start fresh at a new place? Any tips?

    (PS I am seeing a counselor and trying ADHD medication).

    1. Agent J*

      Remember that NewJob doesn’t know your detailed history at OldJob, so you have an opportunity to manage how they view you that is disconnected from previous bad experiences.

      Therapy is often suggested on AAM and if you can do it, it may help to have an outside party’s help to assess those coping mechanisms and replace them with better ones.

    2. LilySparrow*

      As an ADHD-er, I sometimes get down on myself for doing ADHD-y things, or missing things, even in situations where it would be perfectly ordinary for typical people to miss things too. So I clam up and don’t ask for clarification or repetition, or I don’t use my tools because I don’t want to look “stupid”. So then I’m screwed and I really do wind up looking stupid.

      I’d suggest practicing some scripts. Like:
      -Hang on…I’m not following you. Could you go back to the part about X?
      -Let me repeat that back to make sure I got it.
      -Let me check my notes.
      -Hold that thought, I’m putting a reminder on my calendar.
      -When should I follow up with you about this?
      -I need to check on the answer to that, could you call me this afternoon?
      -Sorry, I’m on my way to a meeting – could you email me about that?
      -I was going through my notes, and it looks like this didn’t get completed. What are the next steps on it?
      -Oops, I mis-spoke. I meant to say X.

      We do have to do more double-checking and rely on external systems, but as long as you don’t get squirrelly about it, or panic when you make a mistake, then your systems can come across as you being a diligent and careful worker.

      -Keep a notebook with you always, and take notes about everything.
      -Use reminder functions for everything: daily routines, deadlines, and long-term followup.
      -When you are being trained, take some time and visualize the type of systems you will need to keep you on track, based on the work and your role in the process. Be sure to find out and take notes on:
      How frequently does this need to be done?
      What is the trigger for this to happen? (In response to an outside input, do you need to do it proactively on a schedule, does it always follow another step in the process?)
      What are the step before and the step after?
      Is the point of this task to return a polished final result, or to add to the project and keep it moving forward?
      Can you do the task on your own or is it collaborative, and with whom?
      How does it impact other parts of the job and other people?

      Those things will help you set up systems for yourself to keep you on track. Experimenting and building your systems will be an important part of your first few months there. Dedicate some time and energy for it, it’s key to your productivity. Your systems need to include:
      – Lists of what need to be done
      -Procedures of how it should be done
      -Triggers for when it should be done
      -A “control of error” so you can verify what is completed and what is not, and whether you did it correctly.
      -Designated spaces to keep different topics or tasks separate.
      -A rhythm for your day that includes breaks to move around and a plan for transitioning from one type of task to the next.

      Don’t be hesitant to use simple tools like highlighters, post-its, watch alarms, checklists, and so forth. And don’t worry about asking for accommodations from your manager if there are specific things that you need and they can provide. Nobody is going to judge you or think you are weird as long as the work is done well.

      Good luck, and I hope the new job is a great experience for you!

  88. Anon for this*

    An odd work etiquette/professionalism question occurred to me this week.

    If you have access to your office building outside of work hours, to what extent is it appropriate to stop by when you’re not working and no one else is around? Assume we’re talking about an office that isn’t super secure and where some people do occasionally work outside normal business hours (so, not something like a retail store that has closing procedures for security). And assume we’re talking about stuff like stopping by briefly to grab something, and not just hanging out.

    It occurred to me that if I go to a happy hour or something after work, it could be simpler to leave my bag in my office and pick it up after, instead of lugging all my stuff with me. But I don’t know how appropriate that would be.

    2. Anonysand*

      I don’t think it’s that weird, honestly. I’ve done the same thing on several occasions and know others who have done it as well.

    3. Sharkey*

      I think that’s totally fine, especially since it’s not a high-security situation. I have some coworkers who live close to the office, and they all say that they will sometimes come in on weekends to get in a little focus time, and others who have their packages delivered to work rather than home. This sounds like it’s totally within the same realm.

    5. Natalie*

      Seems totally normal. When I worked in my city’s CBD with no public restroom I used to swing by my building after hours all the time. And there were always a bunch of people that used their parking spaces on weekends and would drop stuff at the office or use the bathroom.

    6. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Agree with the above — I pay for a monthly parking spot in my building, and I’ve used it on weekends and holidays, and gone up to my office for something. Maybe that’s a little different since I’m paying a monthly fee, but it’s still your office on the weekends, much less in the evening, when people might normally be working late anyway!

    7. The Rain in Spain*

      I think it’s fine! I’ve even come by on weekends to drop off things I don’t want to have to carry in from the parking garage.

  89. Anonymous Editor*

    I just had to share with you all. I’ve been working on a huge project for the last several months that finally successfully launched yesterday! Huzzah! It is pretty amazing to see my hard work paying off!

    1. Zona the Great*

      Hey can I ask….after big projects–or even just heavily involved– do you get this odd sense of restlessness afterwards? I often feel like I have excess electricity in my brain after a marathon day or long project. I can’t go home and just Flix and Chill because of the electricity. I can’t cool down. Can you relate?

      Oh, and also, WAY TO GO!

      1. Anonymous Editor*

        Oh my goodness, yes!!! I actually took a comp day to recharge today and am having trouble just relaxing! Glad to know I’m not the only one. I think I’ve just put so much time, stress, and energy into it that it’s hard to bring it back down to normal levels.

        And thank you!

    2. Curator*

      I am throwing you a parade. My big project is launching in one week. I will be powering through the one of the last pieces this weekend and then all hands on deck next week, work through next weekend. Good idea about the comp day. I better put one on the schedule.

  90. Emi.*

    Museum people, help! What should I wear to interview for a part-time volunteer gig at a long-term special exhibit at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum?

    1. MuseumChick*

      UGH, nesting problem. I wrote a replay and it didn’t go under your question. Here it is: “Just what you would wear to any other interview. Slightly dressy, nice pants, blazer kind of thing. At a smaller place you would probably get away with something more casual but that fact that they are the Smithsonian and have people lined up around the block who want to work and/or volunteer there mean you should err on the side of treating this more like a job interview.”

      1. Astrea*

        I wore a suit to an interview for an unpaid but highly coveted internship at a major aquarium, and got the position. It might not have been necessary, but apparently it didn’t hurt.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Particularly if it’s a public-facing gig, you’ll want to dress on the more formal side of business casual at a minimum. Even if you’re not going to be out in public most of the time, if you’re arriving/leaving the staff-only areas and wearing a badge, tourists will definitely stop you to ask for directions or other help. I had a college internship at one of their other museums and although I was in a back office, I still wore nicer business casual (no jeans or t-shirts) every day.

      Good luck!

    3. hermit crab*

      You should probably follow everyone else’s advice, but just for the record I’m a current NMNH volunteer and I’m pretty sure I wore jeans and a T-shirt to my interview! The volunteer department is a pretty laid-back place. Good luck and maybe we’ll run into each other in the volunteer lounge soon :)

    4. Blue*

      I used to volunteer part-time elsewhere in the Smithsonian (NMAH), and I’m pretty sure I wore black pants and a button-down, three-quarter length shirt to my interview. It was certainly more casual than what I’d wear to a job interview, but not my everyday wear, either. I recall most of the volunteer-related stuff being pretty chill there, but it has been like 12 years. Hope it works out – that was a super fun experience for me!

  91. Mediamaven*

    Interviewees – Do not take interviews while you are driving. Full stop. It’s rude and distracting. Also, not safe.

    1. Art3mis*

      I had to do this once because I got an unscheduled phone interview on the way to another interview. She didn’t ask if it was a good time, just started asking questions.

  92. ChemMoose*

    Project Managers – I’m currently a scientist in the lab and looking to transitioning into Project Management. I’ve spent some time (0.25 allocation) working in PM and love it. I have an opportunity to transition into an Executive Assistant position that will be 50% PM. I’d love some input on thoughts.

    1. Zona the Great*

      I LOVE my job. I’m a program manager but that means I’m a multi-project manager as well. I got to this point, not through any project management path like taking courses or certificates, but through working my way up through operations and administration. My personality is well-suited to the work because I enjoy being very busy, I enjoy creating processes and policies, creating process flow maps and charts, gathering various experts to help, getting to mix up the work I do every day and sometimes every hour.

      I got here by honing a well-balanced set of skills just like you seem to be doing. I think you are on the right path. I believe a good project/program manager has a well-rounded understanding of a broad list of topics and skills. Say yes to opportunities that expose you to a little more each time. Don’t try to master things right away. Instead ride what I call the wave or spiral of information. Each time the info comes around, you’ll understand it a little more as long as you tune yourself in.

    2. Gumby*

      There are a wide, *wide* variety of jobs that claim they are project management. So you’ll need to really dig down into the job description to make sure that it is what you want to do. Some positions are almost all admin work. My sister once had a job officially called project manager but it was mostly sales. Some you get to pick teams and run the project. Some you… don’t.

      I will say that having your background in science can be a huge benefit. IME, very many R&D projects are run by researchers who have little to no interest in actually managing the project. If you can both understand the science *and* care about reports, deadlines, schedules, budgets, etc. you would be a great asset to any organization doing that type of work.

      1. ChemMoose*

        Thanks for this insight Gumby! I’ll definitely get the expectations and scope of the position that I’m inquiring about this upcoming week.

        1. formerDoDscientist*

          My company has scientist PM for all projects. They are still heavily involved in the science but also do the more traditional PM duties. They’re also some of the best paid people at this company.

  93. Anononynony*

    Regular commenter here; I know one person in my office reads this site and may know my username.

    I started a job late last summer that seemed promising. It was a career shift in some ways and not in others; it gave me formal responsibility for some tasks I knew but weren’t part of other job titles, and gave me a new scope of work that included things I’d never done before. Compensation is generally excellent, and there are a lot of things I like about working here.

    At this point, I’m struggling. Not with the new work, but with the fact that my boss is an actual lunatic who has said he likes chaos because it makes people think (about how to survive the chaos, yes). He doesn’t communicate expectations at all and when I brought up this week that I’d like to go back to check-ins, he said he had been waiting for me to initiate them, and also here’s a list of several concerns that are a) clearly fireable; b) he was part of the process and I can’t just say “the website didn’t get updated because I didn’t feel like it”, which isn’t true but is clearly the answer he wants given that he was trying to post-mortem a cluster THAT HE KNEW ABOUT as it was happening and make it my fault.

    I am actually not worried I’ll be fired. I have a complex legal process that needs to be followed, and frankly, he’s not that sharp or dedicated enough to stick with it.

    But I am worried about how to manage this. Because of the career-change aspect, I really want to hit the year mark before I start looking. If I find something super-compelling before that, that’s one thing, but I want to go into search mode in the fall. I’m changing my processes to document more (because being in and actively responding to an email chain doesn’t count) and I’ve scheduled check-ins for the next few months. I am using outlook and a planner, I’ve got meetings with another coworker that will take some of the rough edges off our peculiar processes, and I’ve got several coworkers solidly in my corner. (His position is elected but not political and I think if he’s re-elected there’ll be a wave of resignations.)

    Any tips for getting to that year mark?

    1. LGC*

      I’d say don’t worry about getting to the year mark. Hand in your resignation, write a tell-all of your time in the organization, and watch as you become an immediate NY Times best-selling author.

      Okay, but…actually, that’s not bad advice. Don’t actually leave, but pretend you’re writing a tell-all memoir. And remember – your boss is unreasonable and is a literal Chaos Muppet (He LITERALLY SAID HE LIKES CHAOS AND THINKS IT’S A GOOD WAY TO RUN A BUSINESS). He’s dysfunctional independent of whatever you do.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I’d suggest casually job searching now just to see what your options are since this is a new career path, then ramp it up in late spring so you’re on track to leave at about the year mark. Having that escape route feel a bit closer might help you navigate the crazy. He doesn’t sound like he’ll be a great reference either, being unreliable and ready to throw you under a bus, so find a way around that (most people don’t need current managers to be references, but just in case).

      1. Anononynony*

        I spent the last ten years in job search. I cannot, and I will not, start an active search before fall unless something really out of left field happens, like getting fired. I am still dealing with the after-effects of finally feeling like I can relax, although I’ve at least gotten to the point I’m not sleeping 12 hours a day any more. I am not comfortable putting a job I’ve been at since September on my resume, since it does not logically flow with my other titles, but since my preceding four years were a combination of temp jobs, pulling money out of retirement, the very occasional freelance gig, and a job that if I list I will literally not get interviews (took a year to figure that out) and I have a firing from my second-most-recent professional role (plus the org has gone under) and my most recent is a weird standoff with an asshole who didn’t manage me but is who would now be contacted and hates me, job search is not an option. I need to hit the year mark and I need to do it with my sanity more or less intact.

        So what I’m looking for is tips on how to fight chaos with organization. I know I need to leave. For all the reasons I said above, plus that my partner took a pay cut to get away from an abusive coworker and ineffective management and that I had to buy a car a month into this gig (so, long enough to get a decent loan, not long enough to realize that buying a new car with an insurance increase was not a smart idea in terms of keeping my salary more flexible, and alllllllll the medical, dental, and vision care I’ve missed out on since 2012) leaving is not happening until either I’m fired or I get a new job.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Okay, your boss is awful. Do you have a grandboss or anyone higher up who is plugged in enough for you to present concerns to? Because having a boss who is actively trying to throw you under the bus, won’t pass on company goals/expectations, and WON’T MANAGE HIS TEAM is worse than having no boss at all. He’s not just hurting your career, he’s hurting the company, and someone up the chain should care about that.

      1. Anononynony*

        He’s the president of the org. There’s a rumor that the e-board is giving him rope to hang himself, and we have an activist base who will probably challenge him in the election, but unless you work with him, he sounds good. Basically, I don’t think I can rely on stopping him that way, but he gets flustered with details so at least one person’s strategy is to drown him in details until he gets overwhelmed.

        Oh, and I left out goalpost-moving as a feature, not a bug.

  94. Sharkey*

    I’m currently managing a tech support team at a startup, and I’m looking for a new job that’s NOT customer-facing (I’m just….so over customer support), specifically technical writing/documentation or enablement/internal training & support.

    Question: I just got contacted by a recruiter from a company in the same semi-niche field I’m in, looking for a support manager. Would it be appropriate to write back to the recruiter and say, “I love your company, but not this role – got anything more up my street?”

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      The recruiter’s job is to find candidates for the company, not to find you a job. Unless they are also trying to fill the kind of position you want, they may not dig that. That said, maybe they are trying to fill that kind of position, too. Might as well ask.

  95. LibbyG*

    What does critical thinking look like in your field? In the roles you’re familiar with? Like, if someone is good at critical thinking, what do they do? If they’re bad at it, how does that show?

    I’m in higher ed (faculty) and we all claim (earnestly) that we’re helping our students develop critical-thinking skills, and there are theoretical frameworks and research to draw on. But after Alison used this phrase in one of her comments this week, it got me wondering how critical thinking (as a phrase) is perceived in different corners of the non-academic world. Any thoughts to share?

    1. Nacho*

      Critical thinking in my field means we didn’t get trained how to use our systems, and my job is to answer questions about our systems to other employees who also didn’t get trained. So somebody might ask me how to do X, and I’ll have to quickly search every place X might be done from until I find it. Or they might ask why Y happened to our prices, and I’ll try to gather clues as to what happened from the limited information I have access to, hopefully without keeping them on hold for too long.

    2. University Minion*

      The ability to find information and use it in order to problem solve. I love the faculty who are ruthless about forcing students to use their available resources (For the love of all things holy, NEVER entertain a question that’s covered in the syllabus!). Students who do well under those instructors tend to be ones who do well in entry level jobs on campus.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      When I use it, it’s about having a deep logic to your reasoning, being able to spot and address holes/problems, and … honestly, general smarts. I might say “I don’t think she has the critical thinking skills needed for the role” whereas I’d never say “she’s not smart enough for the job.”

      1. CMart*

        I still have a very hard time not referring to the person who took over my previous role as “kind of a dummy” when it would probably be much nicer to say “he didn’t possess the critical thinking skills” for the position.

        But like… he wasn’t able to problem solve or investigate anything on his own, and wasn’t able to discern what kinds of questions he probably shouldn’t be asking out loud. He was a Teapot Analyst who asked me “wait, why do we need a Hot Water report? I thought we served Tea…?”

        I wish him well, and sincerely do hope that a little bit of time in the position has helped him get a better grasp at doing the work, since Lord knows he seemed incapable of knowing how to read the process documentation.

    4. PX*

      I have an engineering degree and that is again, one of the things I have (supposedly!) learned is critical thinking :D In my world, I probably use it interchangeably with ‘problem solving’ which is perhaps not the best thing.

      And to me it means: using your brain in a sensible manner ie being able to break down a task into its components, to be able to find problems (in data typically) and come up with sensible solutions to fix it or plausible theories as to what caused the problem (roughly).

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Yes, independent trouble shooting and problem solving, and identifying issues before they snowball. The opposite of someone who goes directly to the supervisor with any question or uncertainty.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Critical thinking in my role means someone can ask me a question that’s distantly related to my field of expertise and I know how to find the relevant information that will be most useful to them, given the background to the question, and also distill it in a way that makes the most sense to them.

      It also means I can look at the design of a study and figure out where it might fail and how to improve it before I run it, or determine why the data didn’t match my expectations after the fact.

      Unfortunately, it then also means I know when someone else is blowing smoke about their own critical thinking skills, which is frustrating when other people are overly influenced by that person’s opinions because they honestly can’t tell the difference. (External peer review would reduce this problem and it’s telling that this person does not publish externally, but within the company peers aren’t exactly encouraged to tell someone they’re full of it.)

    6. BPT*

      To me, in a basic sense, it’s the ability to understand requests and tasks more than just literally.

      For example, I had a staff assistant once who was asked in an email by a Senior Director, “Hey Staff Assistant, do you have that document for Client X?” To which the staff assistant responded, “Yes.” I had to talk to him and make him understand that the smart thing to do would have been to attach the document and send it to the Director. To think ahead about what the Director was actually asking for, even if they didn’t literally say “send me the document.”

      A lower level coworker I have now is similar. I asked her to take a form letter we were sending out and insert the numbers of our training programs in the correct letters. She did that, but didn’t change the grammar to correspond (the template said “We have XYZ schools in your district,” but she wouldn’t take the “s” off of schools if there was only one). I thought that was so basic that I didn’t need to specify it, but apparently I did.

      Some of this is just being new to the workforce and learning. But if you want to help students claim to be critical thinkers in the workplace, I’d absolutely say to teach them to not take tasks solely in the literal way they’re stated. If they can start anticipating what people need, checking the grammar in a letter where they were only told to check the numbers, and think through what steps would be helpful to take (within their purview), that would be super beneficial.

    7. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      In accounting and business management its the ability to know instinctively where to look for answers when they’re not in front of your face. How to drill into numbers and find errors or avoid errors. The ability to find the answers without a strict path laid out before you to follow along.

      I’m self taught thanks to strong critical thinking skills.

      1. CMart*

        I would add that it’s also being able to make connections, or at the very least know that connections exist that you can then chase down instead of stopping after Point A.

        It’s the difference between “Hey boss, here’s this month’s Total Widget Count!”, “Huh, this month’s Total Widget Count looks really low. Hey boss! Total Widgets look low!” and “Huh, this month’s Total Widget Count looks really low. Let’s look to see if it’s a problem with my spreadsheet or if perhaps someone entered the information wrong. Wait, I remember hearing there was a union strike at the Southern Widget Plant, that might have impacted production…”

    8. Actuarial Octagon*

      In my world, consulting, it usually looks like someone who is great at figuring out what might go wrong, get overlooked, or break before any of those things happen, especially in new or unique circumstances.

    9. LibbyG*

      Great insights! Thanks! There seem to be two shared themes: (1) bringing a self-motivated and self-regulated mindset to your work, and, consequently (2) being able to make sound decisions without an if-then kind of routine.

      A lot of the academic definitions focus on gathering and assessing evidence, which arr related, but these comments here seem to talk more about a broader mindset or active stance. Cool!

      1. Marthooh*

        Also — I don’t want to say “thinking outside the box”, but — being aware of the box’s dimensions and loading capacity, and understanding why the box was even built to begin with.

    10. Overeducated*

      To me critical thinking is being able to ask good questions, or figure out what the underlying questions you should be asking actually are (they aren’t always the same as the surface questions you are trying to answer).

      I have a PhD so theoretically I should be pretty good at critical thinking if the key is having more education, but I don’t think that’s the case. I think whatever field you are in trains you to approach problems in a certain way, and ask a certain kind of question, versus other alternatives. That makes it hard for me to think of it as an abstract skill, I think it’s inextricably tied to disciplinary ways of thinking.

      However, I think banging your head against a problem and not getting frustrated and giving up is a good abstract skill that makes critical thinking possible, and you can apply in a lot of different places. Looking back, one thing that I think did not serve me well in my formal education was having it treated as a solitary endeavor – in my non-academic life sometimes the only thing that makes a breakthrough possible is collaboration with others to try to look at the problem in a new way. I don’t have a pedagogical solution for this, it’s just something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately in light of recent career transitions.

    11. Gumby*

      If they are good at it they notice anomalies, question assumptions, consider alternatives, have a not-completely-skewed self-image.

      If they are bad at it they think they can do no wrong and consider “I gave you that piece of paper” to mean they have completed a report regardless of the quality of the work or the reasonableness of the results.

    12. Paris-Berlin-Seoul Express*

      Critical thinking to means that I look at issues holistically, that I address root causes not symptoms, that I identify second and third order effects of proposed solutions and that I offer several courses of action.

  96. Birch*

    Advice about performance reviews?

    I have my first ever performance development review in 1.5 weeks and I have to submit a personal assessment form on Wednesday. I have literally zero idea how it’s going to go as I’ve gotten no feedback over the year that I’ve been here. I’ve found it really difficult to work with my supervisor and the stress has caused a lot of mental health problems (I’m now in therapy and I think it’s helping…), and I know I’m not working at my best, but my supervisor has no way of knowing what my best actually is. I’ve been reading all AAM’s advice about performance reviews and made a plan of how to react for any eventuality, but it’s still making me really anxious. Any advice from your experience? How do you handle a negative or blase review? Have you had to react to a review you thought was unfair? Is this the appropriate venue for bringing up things I think I need in order to succeed (more communication, mainly)? At what point do you just sit there and take it, choosing not to pick that battle?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      The best advice I have is, bring a notebook, and whatever they say, good or bad, take a few minutes to thoughtfully write it down. This gives me a) a plan, which helps my anxiety, and b) the chance not to react right away with my first instinct, whatever it is.

  97. Ellie*

    When interviewing for a new job when do you ask about benefits? Not just health insurance, but things like vacation time, professional development, working from home, summer Friday’s etc. Do I need to wait until I have an offer or is that natural to discuss during an interview? The kind of benefits a company offered will play a large roll in my job search, but I don’t want to torpedo my chances by seeming like I’m only interested in company perks.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I think it can come up in a later interview (maybe not an initial phone screen). It doesn’t have to be during the offer stage if it’s general benefits. If it’s something peculiar you’re asking for (an exception to one of their rules), I’d definitely save it for the offer stage.

    2. The Rain in Spain*

      With the exception of professional development, I don’t ask about benefits until I have an offer.

    3. irene adler*

      Find out what the interview process is first. That way you’ll know if there will be subsequent opportunities to ask about these things. If there is just one interview, then I would ask about these things. Might take their cue when they bring up the topic of compensation, to ask them details about how they compensate employees.

      Also, the questions about professional development and work place culture (WFH, summer Friday’s etc.) are all fine at the first interview after they’ve gotten through some of their questions. You might preface with “Can you tell me about the work place culture?” or ” what does work/life balance mean at Company X?”. See how they respond and then ask “Do you have anything comparable to WFH or summer Friday’s?” It is normal to want to know about the work environment at the same time they are interested in knowing more about you.

    4. Another Librarian*

      Most of the places I have worked at have an HR section of the interview where they hand you a huge packet of all that information. It’s sometimes really cryptic, but they provide it. Now, this is mostly for academic jobs that do horrible day long interviews.

  98. MuseumChick*

    Just what you would wear to any other interview. Slightly dressy, nice pants, blazer kind of thing. At a smaller place you would probably get away with something more casual but that fact that they are the Smithsonian and have people lined up around the block who want to work and/or volunteer there mean you should err on the side of treating this more like a job interview.

  99. JustaTech*

    Just a tiny little vent: It is 2019. I can hold all of the world’s recorded knowledge in the palm of my hand. There is more than one commercial company sending rockets into space. There are very nearly autonomous cars!

    Why can’t I print my $^#$%%^& labels on the !&#$%*@)% printer? Why? Why does it eat my super expensive labels and make a giant mess? It worked fine in December! What do I have to do, sacrifice a goat? Those things are expensive!

    Thus concludes today’s tiny vent.

    1. Bork*

      Printers are hell-created mechanical horrors designed to entrap you in a never ending spiral of stuck staples, jammed scans, and wasted money on ink and toner.

      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        I don’t do printers, so I can’t speak to the efficacy of the chicken.

        But I can confirm that goats are strictly for tricky JavaScript errors. (Usually in addition to at least two chickens of any type.)

    5. noahwynn*

      Why I don’t understand is why our printers are numbered and include no real way to identify where they are. So I can accidentally select printer #0105 instead of #0106 and it will print in Miami instead of Minneapolis. I’ve memorized the two I use most often but they are way far apart in the number range too. I don’t get why we can’t name them in some coherent way.

    6. NACSACJACK*

      Talk nicely to the machine. Beg. Tell it you want to work as a team. Treat it to coffee once in a while.

    7. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I started wondering, are goats expensive? Or labels? And then realized it’s funnier not knowing.
      My daughter said that B&W chickens do not work for color printers. (Try Rhode Island Reds.)

    9. Nana*

      My answer to any work-machine issue — Two ‘Hail Marys” and an “Our Father…” [and I’m not even Catholic].

  100. Bork*

    One of our new hires has really gone off the rails– constantly badmouthing another coworker, ignoring direct instructions from her trainer and HR, a clear inability to do her job, acting very two-faced and toxic, etc.etc.. Upper management is aware of the issue, and I have a feeling that her days are numbered.

    IN THE MEANTIME, I still have to work with her. I also have to train her a number of tasks (that she keeps blowing me off for.) Most of our coworkers have also cottoned onto her issues and there’s a lot of background badmouthing and “can you believe she did this/said this???” shared within offices. Honestly, I know I’m feeding into it as well– it’s like watching a trainwreck in slow motion, and some of the stuff she does is almost laughably ridiculous, but I feel kind of two-faced and toxic myself smiling and being warm and friendly to her face and laughing at her antics behind her back, but I’m certainly not going to align the way I treat her with my actual feelings toward her.

    Hopefully she won’t be with the company much longer, but any advice on dealing with and being warm and professional while working with a ludicrously toxic coworker?

    2. Rovannen*

      This is completely creepy. I have the same situation!! Thankfully, the end is in sight for mine, 4.5 more long months. I also wrestled with keeping professional vs my real feelings. I have never seen a person alienate every person in every division of the company. It’s truly an amazing feat.

      I don’t have good pointers, just survival. I keep all interactions brief and to the point and I make sure I have a pleasant abstracted smile. I make it a game to take everything they say seriously with extreme politeness. I do a lot of walking away, as if of course, the problem/conversation/issue/non issue was solved/ended.

      I am able to severely limit my interactions, as they believe I’m above them and my co-worker is below them (spoiler – we’re on the same level and everyone’s job in this company is important in different ways). My poor co-worker is left dealing with them while I eat virtual popcorn and watch the show.

      That reminds me, I should get my co-worker some wine for dealing with them. 4.5 months to go.

  101. Sarah*

    How do you acknowledge accomplishments as a manager on your resume? My team has done really well, but for lots of other reasons, I’m job hunting. I want to get some credit for my team’s performance, but it’s not like I did all that work myself.

    I’m trying to follow Allison’s advice re. my resume by saying things like going from $$$ in grant funding to $$$$ with a 60% success rate. I wrote some of those, and I approved all of them.

    If it helps, I’m looking for manager or ED positions to move into. (Happy to hear any other job hunting tips as it’s been a while. I’ve combed the archives, but I’m a bit stressed about this.)

  102. T2sLastChance*

    I feel guilty for taking more time off than my coworker’s usually do for maternity leave. Our leave is not paid (you just use sick time and the rest is unpaid). Our school allows for employees to take up to 12 months off unpaid for “bonding time.” I am planning on taking six months. Only about 3-4 weeks of that will be paid. We are scrimping and sacrificing in other ways to afford it. But, I can’t help but feel guilty. My coworkers keep making references to me coming back sooner. I have approval from my boss to take the six months and they will hire a replacement for me. But, I haven’t gotten into the details with my coworkers about exactly how long I’m taking. It doesn’t affect their job, so they don’t “need” to know. Adding to my nervousness is I’ve only been here a year.

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Please don’t feel guilty. You are doing what you feel is best for your family. Your school allows for even more time than you are taking. It’s not going to affect them. Please please please don’t worry about this!

    2. Robyn*

      Most importantly, your boss is hiring a replacement! Even if they weren’t, you need to do what’s right for you and your family. But at this point, if the guilt was about co-workers having to pick up the slack that your absence would cause, the new hire will mitigate that and there’s no reason to beat yourself up about it.

    3. CMart*

      Don’t feel guilty! People do what’s best for their families, and I can nearly guarantee that by and large people will be really happy you’re able to swing 6 months. I was just able to take 15 weeks (they let me do FMLA intermittently so I was able to pause, use up PTO, then go back on) and my coworkers who were also recently out for maternity leave all unanimously exclaimed how amazing that was. If someone told me they were able to convince my company to let them take 6 months off and be able to come back to their role I’d be over the moon for them.

    4. Rovannen*

      Only you know what is right for your family. You get one chance to raise your child; there’s no do-overs. Enjoy your time! The job will be waiting for you.

  103. Saradactyl*

    Do those of y’all that work with clients have ways to tell them “no I won’t do that for you because it’s not my job to do that for you” but like, nicely? I have a client that asked me to make a spreadsheet for her using data she got from our tool. Not like, how do I make a spreadsheet – but “will you make it for me?”

    I have lots of other clients who need answers and help from me and I just don’t have the time to spend making a spreadsheet for a client about this random data, also it’s just not my job to do stuff like that for her. However, every time I think about phrases in my head it sounds rude.

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Hi Client, I’m glad the data from my team’s tool will be helpful for you. As I’m sure you understand, due to the volume of our work creating/maintaining/whatever the tool/job/etc, we aren’t able to create custom documents for our end users with that data. I’d be happy to try to answer a few specific questions you may have, but otherwise this is something your team would need to create.

      I don’t know, this probably sounds rude too. It’s an issue I run into often and I usually direct them to the correct department/team to handle/assist with their request.

    2. PX*

      Depends what kind of client (internal/external? valuable?) but I tend to go with something like: “Unfortunately thats not something I can help you with” or “Unfortunately I can only provide you with the data, anything you want to do with it needs to be done on your end”

      Pushing back on client requests is an art but something I’ve also had to learn!

    3. Catsaber*

      I’ve totally been there! I used to do support for the online class division at my university. I would give a bunch of links on how to do the various tasks they wanted. I would also say, “I’m sorry, I’d like to help but I am really busy right now!” and try to point them in the direction of a trainer or training center, if possible. Basically, it’s the method of providing solutions instead of just saying no. Also, if you keep on giving them links/references and not actually doing it, they will eventually give up. Or go to your boss and get a special allowance. :)

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      Phrasing will depend a little on whether it’s an internal or external client. If it’s internal, it’s a little easier to say “I’m sorry, but I’m not able to assist with creating custom reports, but if you have any specific questions about the tool or data, I’m always happy to help.” With an external client, as in paying for your service, it can be a little tougher and depends on relationships, how your company prefers you to handle it, etc. however ultimately, I usually say something very similar to that. Happy to answer x types of questions, unable to create custom thing.

  104. Fed Up*

    It’s finally happening!!

    I met with grandboss (Director) this week and told her professionally and calmly how overworked I am given that I am a team of 1 and my manager is totally unsupportive (2-hour lunches, never responds to emails, doesn’t show up to events for our program, took ONE MONTH to forward me an email address, scheduled her vacation during my busiest season when I am interviewing 50 clients for our program…)

    Grandboss asked me to put my complaints in writing, talk with boss directly today, and forward her all my documented proof, bc I have receipts of everything. I did so. Boss called out “sick” today so I couldn’t talk to her but grandboss quietly let me know that a “plan” is in place.

    The stress and emotional labor of managing up to a petty and careless person on top of deadlines nearly destroyed me this week. I work very hard for amazing results but not much money (yay nonprofits) and my morale is totally shot. I can’t take another 6 months of this.

    Please pray for me that good change is coming at last!

    1. Princess Scrivener*

      You’ve got this! Best of everything to you–clear thinking, appropriate attitude, and perfect wording.

      1. valentine*

        Can you not leave at any time?

        She’s not the only problem. Grandboss didn’t manage her properly.

  105. transman #827*

    I’ve recently come out as transgender (FtM). Any personal experience and advice for coming out at work? My manager knows, and is committed to making it go as smoothly as possible, thankfully.

    1. anonymoushiker*

      I have no advice/experience with this, but best of luck in your transition. I hope all of your co-workers are as committed and supportive if/when you come out. Perhaps your manager or a local lgbtq group could help you figure out how/when to come out to co-workers?

    2. MuseumChick*

      No advice, just want to send you good vibes! I hope none of your co-works act like asshats about it.

    3. MuttIsMyCopilot*

      My partner is going through this as well, and it happens to be the first time this has come up at their place of employment so there is absolutely no precedent for anything. While the higher-ups are all very supportive, there isn’t any procedure or policy in place and they’re kind of scrambling to figure out what needs to happen.
      My best advice (assuming this is new to your workplace) is to insist on policy being written and basic educational/tolerance training taking place *before* you actually come out to everyone. Request that you get to review the policy so you can make sure it’s actually inclusive and covers everything that needs to be spelled out (We’re in the SE US. The first draft was Not. Good.). If there’s already policy in place, read it carefully and see if it needs to be updated. Make sure it doesn’t just cover expected behavior, but consequences for failure to abide.
      After that, just don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself. People will make mistakes, but well intentioned folks want you to correct them. If some of your coworkers are closer friends or better allies than others, let them know whether or not you’d like them to correct people on your behalf. You may appreciate not carrying that entire burden, or you may be more comfortable not having that attention drawn to you every time someone slips up. That’s entirely up to you.
      Most of all, if you get the feeling someone is misgendering and deadnaming you on purpose, document. Complain. Make all the noise you need to. You have the right to be comfortable and safe at work, and anyone who thinks otherwise can at least learn to keep their opinions in their head.

  106. user679*

    How to deal with your boss’s sexism.

    I’m a new manager with my own team. My boss is ok most of the time. What I noticed, however, is how his assessment of people’s behavior differs dramatically depending on the person’s gender.

    More precisely he only criticizes women based on perceived deficiencies in their behaviors. He never does that for men.

    The work environment is mixed with a men-to-female ratio of approx. 50%. I can honestly say, there are no differences in behavior according to sex. There are men and women who are great and men/women who behave like jerks. Still, what he sees as arrogance and bossiness in women, he perceives as enthusiasm in men. This is unfair and makes me fear about my own assessment (I’m a woman).

    1. animaniactoo*

      “Hey Boss, have you seen the studies about how enthusiasm and initiative in men is often regarded as arrogance and difficulty in women? It’s such an unconscious bias that people often don’t realize they’re doing it. I’d like to initiate a program here to discuss it and try to combat it. Can I show you some of the source materials and discuss my ideas of how we can be ahead of the game in trying to reduce that among our employees?”

  107. animaniactoo*

    Just a bit of a vent. Yesterday, my company decided they were starting a “green” initiative. I’m all for green initiatives. But this seems like an impractical one that’s disguising something else. Or at least it’s just hella poorly thought out.

    They’ve decided that we waste a lot of plastic in desk trashcan bags and don’t do near the amount of recycling of paper that we should. So from now on, no one’s personal trashcan will have a liner in it and don’t throw candy wrappers or food in it, just paper, which will be picked up once a week (unless you’re overflowing and then call for a pickup).

    An additional Large trash can will be added on each floor, take your food and non-paper-recyclable trash there.

    Yeah, that’s all well and good, and yes, I get it, we’re not supposed to be eating at our desks, but some of us do anyway. IN THE MEANTIME: We have tea/coffee paper cups that need disposing, you provide the damn candy that has the wrappers, and it’s cold season and I’m not the only one regularly blowing my nose at my desk throughout the day (with the tissues you provide, ty, very much sincerely appreciated!).

    Maybe a better way to go about this would have been adding a small paper recycling bin to everyone’s workspace? Just… Maybe?

    In the meantime, I sit here with the time honored grocery plastic bag on my desk feeding my tea cups and tissues into it. I’ll take it up to the large trash can when I’m headed out for the day.

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      this seems like a really strange solution to me! we have the opposite system sort of- there’s a large shred box in each department and we all have our own garbage cans. some people prefer to throw out their food waste in the break room, but unless it’s smelly, i use my garbage can (i am fortunate to have my own office). i made myself a little bin that i stick papers i need to shred and then just go empty it out when it gets full.

      1. animaniactoo*

        They own the building, and it will actually mean that somebody does not have to come through at 5:00 every evening collecting the trash from each cubicle.

          1. animaniactoo*

            Oh, I’m not saying it’s a good idea – just explaining why “building’s maintenance staff” is not going to be a vector for pushing back on it.

    3. Need a Beach*

      My office switched to a system somewhat like this due to insect problems. People are not supposed to throw perishable waste anywhere other than specific designated cans. It’s a bit of a pain, but it’s worthwhile in warm weather when the fruit flies start hatching.

    4. Bostonian*

      Yeah, that’s not how you implement recycling in a way that people will be compliant. As you’ve mentioned, people who need to blow their nose often (I’m one of them! Even when I’m not sick!) need a place to put their germy tissues without getting up all the time.

      They really need to have 1 recycling bin and 1 trash bin for every desk/cubicle/whatever the set up is.

    5. Beth Jacobs*

      Can you get a desktop bin and take that out at the end of the day? Looks more dignified than a grocery bag and works the same way. I agree this system is ridiculous – if I had to walk across the whole floor to toss my paper tissue, I’d never get any work done!

    6. Half-Caf Latte*

      OMG. I posted about the same exact thing a few weeks ago.

      Some fun updates:
      – people are doing the grocery bag on the desk thing, but have gotten lazy about walking them to the communal trash daily. (out of the way from the exit).
      -Friday afternoon, EVERYONE throws a weeks worth of desk trash into the big trashcans, which don’t get emptied until Monday.
      -We now have mousetraps in the lunch room/by the big trash.
      -There is going to be a MEETING about MY (and others’) TRASH, because we as a floor are over our trash quota building management has set.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Sweet Jesus. I had no idea how many companies thought this was a good idea until this thread.

    7. AdAgencyChick*

      Ugh, sympathies. About 10 years ago I worked in an office that had paper and non-paper trash cans, and they decided as a green initiative to take the non-paper cans away and make everyone throw out their non-paper waste in the kitchens.

      This led to:
      1) OVERFLOWING trash cans in the kitchens
      2) people simply piling up food trash in their offices and then taking it to the kitchen after it had accumulated for a couple of days (GROSS! also, VERMIN!)

      So…yeah. Best of luck but it ain’t gonna go well.

    8. animaniactoo*

      Minor update: The “paper collection” person is here (we’re friendly with him) and was doing a bit of harassing about the “adaptations” in a couple of the other cubicles (one person put their own liner in the bin) in my department.

      “It’s my bag and I’ll take it out at the end of the day” <— person in back of me
      "I'm not walking down the hall to get rid of the tissues every time I blow my nose" <— me
      "Yeah, seriously, I blow my nose A LOT." <— person kitty-corner from me

      It looks like we have some universal pushback on this already….

      (For reference, the area where the large trashbin will be located is at one exit and a couple of steps out of the way if you take that route (approx equal length) to the other exit.)

    9. Jules the First*

      Hey, at least you have desk-side trash!
      We lost our individual bins about a year ago in favour of two communal waste stations per floor (three bins – compostable waste, recyclable waste, everything else). I now have to schlep my recycling, rubbish, and used tissues the length of the office…

      1. noahwynn*

        This is the setup we have. My department all have small bins from Dollar Tree that we empty into the large trash at the end of each workday. It was done in the name of cost savings and I have no problem emptying my own trash. I am curious what happened to all the small bins that were in everyone’s cubical though.

  108. ttgcole*

    I am running on fumes today, my four kids, myself and my husband are all sick. I am running on two hours sleep. I was out sick last week for two days and I am going to be out for a surgery in two weeks for two weeks. My question is whether or not it is good to drag yourself into work and be almost non functional or just not come in at all. I have only been at my job for four months and I don’t want to be labeled as unreliable but I am just making stupid mistakes and can’t put two thoughts together despite caffeine and a five hour energy!

    1. animaniactoo*

      If you’re that new and that bad, it makes sense to drag yourself into work and then go home early, telling people that you know it might look bad but you’re not being very effective and you’re making stupid mistakes that you’ll just have to undo Monday/tomorrow/whenever. Yes, it sucks that you have to go in at all – but it’s kind of your “proof” that a) you’re not a slacker and you are willing to try and you get the appearance aspect and b) you’re not faking it.

      1. Jasnah*

        This is my method. It sucks to have to go in, but this is the only way you get credit for “dragging yourself in anyway” AND also get to sleep for most of the day.

    2. Lumen*

      Do not go to work. At this level of stress and sleep deprivation it’s basically like going to work completely drunk. It’s not safe for you to drive. Overdosing caffeine can exacerbate the problems you’re having. Let your manager know that you’re still very ill. Let them know these are unusual circumstances, and go home and rest as much as you can. If they are a good manager, they will understand, and they won’t want you at work making mistakes because you’re exhausted.

      If anyone labels you as ‘unreliable’, know that they would also label you unfairly for making mistakes. So if you ‘lose’ either way (and only in the eyes of people who are eager to rush to judgement), you may as well do what you need to do for your health.

    3. PX*

      Call in sick. It doesnt matter if you’ve only been there 4 months, you can get sick at any time and this definitely sounds like it qualifies.

    4. irene adler*

      You need to take care of yourself -now- so that recovery after the upcoming surgery is not unduly protracted.
      If you are that “unfunctional” – go home. A whole day off where you can get plenty of rest can really make a difference!
      Speaking as a co-worker, I would not like to see you trying to function with lack of sleep. I wouldn’t care if you took a sick day to recover- even if you are a new employee. You’ll prove yourself to be reliable once you are back at 100%.

    6. ..Kat..*

      5 hour energy has phenylephrine – which is bad for you. If you need this to be at work, I think it is best to stay home and get better. Plus, your coworkers don’t want to catch what you have. Hope you get better soon.

  109. anonymoushiker*

    I’ve been semi-seriously job-searching for the last 2.5 months. For a month and a half, all I’ve gotten is one phone interview and am feeling rather deflated about it. I’m sure I could improve my cover letter/resume although I do my best to follow Alison’s advice. Any suggestions? I’m wary of asking people to look over because there’s so much mixed-messaging on what to do for resumes/cover letters.

    Also, for those of you working state jobs (I’m in MA if that helps), how did you get your foot in the door? I recently graduated with a relevant degree and am hoping to parlay job experience and this degree into getting a foot in the door but with no luck so far.

    1. Another Librarian*

      Do you have a mentor you trust who can look at it? Someone a few years older than you in the field you want to get into? I really think having someone else see it might be super helpful.

      1. anonymoushiker*

        Hm, I don’t quite, but I could certainly connect with former class mates who are in state government and pick their brains/have them look at it.

  110. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    Okay, this is super small potatoes but still something that’s making me very happy today!

    I’ve posted here before that I have a co-worker with some extremely distracting habits; nonstop muttering, swearing, complaining, throwing papers, banging down the phone and asking questions that she already knows the answer to but “just wants to be sure” for the one millionth time. She lives in an eternal state of frustration and has to share it with everyone around her all the time. I tried addressing the distractions and how the constant negativity was killing my morale with my old boss, but while she agreed it was a problem, she never acted upon it in any meaningful way other than bringing it up in their 1:1. It would get better for a couple of days and then go right back to business as usual.

    However, Old Boss transferred to a different facility and has been replaced by New Boss, who used to be our peer and has firsthand dealt with the past few years of verbal vomit from this co-worker. We have some changes in our team currently, and New Boss has taken the opportunity to move our cubes around so annoying co-worker is now as far away from me as is possible while still being located in the same department. She’s going to be behind a rare full-size cube wall, which should minimize a lot of the noise and will take her completely out of my eyeline.

    It’s been a rough week (Polar Vortex, car died, and my cat had to go to the vet) but I’m really looking forward to Monday!

  111. ArtK*

    An episode in the annals of penny-wise and pound-foolish:

    We need an e-mail address to use when our systems send out alerts. (The reason why we lost the previous address is another piece of corporate ineptitude.) The company balked at giving us a new one, saying “that’s $5 a month; here, use this other one.” The existing one they gave us has limitations on the number of e-mails it can send per day and that’s not going to work when it’s used in monitoring a number of customer systems.

    With the amount of time (money) spent discussing the alternatives, we’ve far outspent the $5/mo for a new address, for at least 2 years.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m sharing this with my boss.

      Everyone says he’s cheap (he is frugal, they’re not wrong) but he isn’t a psycho. $5 a month for something that makes things work efficiently, no problem. $5 a month because you want Starbucks brand coffee instead of the Costco brand in the break room? Lol nope.

      It’s $60 a year…how slim are the margins if that’s an issue, yikes!!

      I just had to tell the shop to tell me when they’re out of random disposables. I guess they’ve been using the same duster every day for years…it’s the duster with disposable heads. Throw it away, I’ll get you boxes of refills omg omg.

      1. ArtK*

        I have another story from a different employer. My boss, colleague and I flew to the East Coast to have some meetings at corporate. We got in late, so we stopped at a Burger King and got dinner. The total cost can’t have been much over $20 (this was in 1999.)

        My boss (a VP) lost the receipt. They argued for weeks about whether they would reimburse him or not.

  112. CupcakeCounter*

    Major vent coming
    A major change happened in my industry starting January 1 and even though it effects me greatly I wasn’t involved with a lot of the early planning. When I finally was brought in and started asking questions my grand-boss waved off my concerns and then fucking shushed me. Well now the shit has hit the fan and everything is completely fucked up. All of those questions and concerns that I tried bringing up over a month ago are now super duper critical and the shusher flipped out and asked why these things weren’t discussed a while back.
    Very loudly and clearly with an entire group of people in the room, I said “I did ask those questions and you shushed me” and walked out.

    Knowing I would be the one stuck with dealing the actual nitty-gritty of the thing I spent most of the last 2 weeks digging and asking questions (not to him) so that I have a decent handle on things. I’m not sharing that information at this point…just going to let him freak out all by himself.

  113. Lena Clare*

    Well, I just got 3 different rejection emails for the same post I applied for 0_o
    Nothing like being thorough!

  114. Little Nervous*

    So… today we had a series of small quakes in the city where I live (not in the US), which is normal here, and we activated the emergency protocol. I’m part of the emergency brigade for the office, so is my responsibility to make sure that all the people in my area is calm and obeys the safety instructions, specially importante because we are at the 24th floor . How can I go back to concentrate in my work if I´m concern about the posibility of more quakes today?
    By the way, first time poster, but I found this site incredibly helpfull.

    1. Little Nervous*

      Really quick update, nor as small as I thought, a colleague is telling me that in Central America were damages, we are in Mexico City.

    2. Mephyle*

      Hello, Nervous.
      I’m in Mexico City too and I am sure we won’t have another one today. I don’t know why, I just feel it. Hope this helps.

  115. MountainMeg*

    I’ve identified a company whose mission I’m passionate about. They don’t have a job board or positions available, but I want to reach out and make a connection and see if there might be any way we could work together. I know it’s a long shot. I’m not sure what I even expect to come of it! Good idea? Bad? If it’s good, suggested scripts?

    1. Sleepytime Tea*

      Eh, generally bad if you’re thinking you want to pitch yourself in some way. It falls into the “gumption” category of showing up unannounced and uninvited and asking for someone’s time to talk about something they haven’t asked for and don’t need. But that depends a little bit on your industry too, I think. Your best bet is to see if you can find someone you have a network in common with and can get an introduction. If they don’t have any sort of job board then it can be hard to find out if positions are available so it seems semi-reasonable to try to reach out to HR or something and ask about any opening and the best way to keep an eye out for them (oh, we post positions on monster or career builder or whatever). But beyond that, don’t try and sales pitch yourself.

    2. ArtK*

      I’ve been working on something like that, but I had a starting point. Someone from the company was a student with me and we connected on LinkedIn. Since then, I’ve expanded my network there and elsewhere in that industry. It’s a little rough, making cold connections, and they often don’t come through. I connected with a recruiter from the company and he accepted on the basis of my other connections. He recently reached out to me about a possible job. Unfortunately for me, they move *very* slowly so I’m still waiting for us to set up an interview.

      With some of my newer connections, I have tried a “gee, could you please give me some advice?” approach. I’ve gotten a couple of decent responses.

  116. Rescue ALL the dogs*

    I’m planning on resigning the first of April and giving a months notice. The problem is that my boss is on maternity leave. She’s been very very vocal about letting people know not to contact her (since no one respected her maternity leave with her last child). She’s meant to be back on April 1st but now there’s talk that she may take longer due to some unforeseen complications. What do I do? I’m not sure she’ll answer my phone call and resigning over email just seems less than ideal. While she’s out, I’m basically in charge, and I have no contact whatsoever with the grandboss so there’s really no one else I can talk to. Suggestions?

    1. Red Lines with Wine*

      No HR? Go as high up as you can and it will get back to her. You could send her an email, and if she responds, that’s her fault for checking email when she doesn’t want to be contacted.

    2. LQ*

      Who is directing your work in the meanwhile? Who is the person approving payroll? Or leave? It might be a sideways manager that’s the right person? Hr?

      Otherwise even though you have no contact with the grandboss if none of these other things work then I think you have to go to grandboss. You can’t just send an email or leave a voicemail.

      1. valentine*

        Don’t contact your boss during her leave. If you mean you’re unable to contact grandboss, call or email the next person up to resign on 1 April. (Can you wait until 2 April? I wouldn’t want anyone to waste time thinking it was a joke.)

    3. CAA*

      Wait until April 1. If your manager doesn’t return on that date, then someone is going to communicate with you to tell you about the new plans right? The person who tells you about your manager’s new return date (or lack thereof) is the person to whom you should resign.

    4. Jerry Vandesic*

      Wait until April 15, when your boss is back, and give two weeks notice. Notifying your boss while she is out on leave will not help her fill your position, and is only going to stress her during her leave.

  117. Workaholic*

    Unions.

    I work in a cubical farm, in essentially an accounts payable setting. This past week we received starting that some co-workers thought we’d be interested in forming a union. Physical lawyers for the same have just begin arriving at our homes.

    I love my job, make more than i ever have before, and after 5 years I’m still giddy over PTO. Being able to call in sick and stay in bed and not lose money or fear repercussions (In fact people appreciate not sharing) is still a novelty to me. However, co-workers state we’re paid below standard for what wer do.

    When i hear of unions i think of hard labor jobs, not customer service/ office workers.

    Does anybody have input, pros, cons? Will this cause a negative work environment?

    Thanks!

    1. Workaholic*

      Oh no! I didn’t catch the autocorrects. Redo of first paragraph:

      I work in a cubical farm, in essentially an accounts payable setting. This past week we received emails stating that some co-workers thought we’d be interested in forming a union. Physical letters for the same have just begin arriving at our homes

    2. SpiderLadyCEO*

      I was in a similar situation earlier this year! A few people started talking about unionizing, and asking if we wanted to join. I had super, super mixed feelings about it, because I could see where they were coming from but at the same time I felt I was treated very fairly!

      Someone on here pointed out that the best time to unionize was when you felt like you were being treated well, to lock that treatment down.

      So far, nothing has changed, really but it’s gonna make a big difference in the future – we are in a field where seasonal layoffs are an expected part of life, and the union is taking measures to make sure future layoffs are less painful then our last cycle.

      The thing I was most afraid of is losing $30 a month from my paycheck, but I haven’t felt that as keenly as I thought I would , and honestly having peace of mind that my benefits aren’t going anywhere or that I’m less likely to get wiped by layoffs helps a lot.

    3. anonymoushiker*

      Unions can definitely be for many different kinds of staff. I would encourage you to look into it since they’re usually pretty good at advocating for staff. There are definitely downsides to having/not having unions, but they often protect you against unfair treatment by management.

    4. irene adler*

      You’ll get resentment from management.
      How much- can’t say. Management doesn’t like being told by an outside authority what they can do regarding the employees.
      I know that when someone at my work brought up unionizing, someone in management made it clear that there would be fewer employed at our company because the wages for the remaining would probably go up. And they couldn’t afford to simply increase wages for all without reducing the workforce.
      My boss asked why someone wanted to unionize. Because if this was because of a work problem, he wanted the chance to talk things through. Maybe resolve the issue without resorting to unionizing.

      My sister is in a union. They are good to have when she needs help advocating for herself against the company where she works.

    5. Ellie*

      Unions: the people who brought you weekends!!

      All joking aside, they are a vital part of being an employee. If management isn’t doing something shady, then the have nothing to worry about from unions. A union will always be YOUR advocate, will be there for you if problems arise, and help make your job better.

      Divided, we beg; united, we bargain.

      Can you tell I’m a union member? And everyone in my family is a union member?

    6. Not Today Satan*

      My husband is in a white collar union. I am pro-union 100%. Whatever downsides they have… the fact of the matter is, industry by industry, role by role, union workers get better pay and benefits. America has basically no legal protections for workers, so the more unions the better.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I am too, and although dues have gone up every year, it’s still worth it. The union people kept/are keeping benefits long after they were cut for non-union. For me personally, being union meant being eligible for recall after layoffs, and that’s why I’m working [in a newer, better position] again. I know a few other people who were able to get the union to manage some work issues on their behalf.

        However, at times it has meant significant friction with management through (rare) strikes, drawn-out contract mediations, and movement of jobs to non-union states. Those are problems on a much larger scale than when a small office unionizes, but there are probably small-scale versions of each (as mentioned above, management hinting about staff cutting if the staff unionizes).

    7. Not All*

      I’m very, very pro-union for everyone in the US because without them we’ve basically got zilch. I also agree that it’s a really good idea to get one in place while everything is going well.

      I worked in a federal office that was 95% white collar and the union was formed back when when everything was great. About the only thing that happened post-union formation was a closet was turned into a union “office” and those of us who paid dues got discounts on tires (odd but true!). People occasionally wondered if it was really worth paying the dues for it even though they weren’t onerous. Then, the New Manager From Hell came in. She was awful and abusive and without the union would have been worse. Thankfully, the union had been able to get the old managers to put basic practices that were already being done into writing. For example…when the county was under a No Travel weather advisory we would get paid administrative leave under old managers. New Manager decided that was a waste because she lived right by the office & had a 4×4 and tried to say everyone was “essential personnel” and must come into the office or be considered AWOL even when the roads were literally shut down. Without the union, she would have been able to make that change but with the agreements the union had in writing, all she could do was rant & try to guilt trip people.

    8. Is my boss here?*

      Don’t know if it’s too late to respond to this but it really got me where I live.

      I had one union job in my life, paid my “fair use” for a year (but couldn’t join until I’d finished my probationary year). There were serious management issues and violations with the way my probation was conducted. I got phone calls at home from coworkers and an anonymous note on my desk about the violations. At coworkers’ urging, I went to the union. I didn’t know at the time the Chief Steward was brand-new to the role, but for months she made noises like she was in my corner. I lost my job and even after that the CS was saying maybe I could be reinstated. She “fired” me when the Union Big Gun phoned me and I had the nerve to ask UBG a couple of questions. I talked to 2 lawyers, who both said the union didn’t meet its obligation to me, but the lawyers couldn’t help me unless I went through a union grievance first. In talking w/ CS and UBG, it became pretty clear they were protecting my Accommodated Assistant, a union member who had caused problems for years in multiple departments and tried to get his/her previous supervisor fired. AA’s union steward came to my office when I was there alone and tried to talk to me about the issues. Another steward–just a friend–told me that was unethical. Clearly there were a lot of things going on and I was caught in some invisible vortex that only the union seemed privy to.

      Unions help the people they help, but they aren’t a panacea and they have their own agendas.

    9. Mobuy*

      I don’t know about the type of union you’re talking about, exactly, but I refused to join my teacher’s union. Most of what they do (other than negotiate contacts every 5 years or so, which I do appreciate) is protect bad teachers. I don’t want bad teachers protected! I want them fired! If I felt I was getting taken advantage of or there was some big problem the was not being addressed I would reconsider, but I’d rather have the $60/month.

  118. Folkie*

    I’m 25, still live at home, and have just applied to do a Folk Music Degree. I have significant experience of performing folk, so I contacted both the universities in England that do the course, and they both encouraged me to apply. The UCAS deadline had already gone, but they didn’t seem phased.
    I am nervous and excited and worried and confident and… everything else. I’d reigned myself to the fact that I wouldn’t go to university, as I couldn’t go straight after school, but here I am…
    I haven’t heard back from UCAS yet, so naturally my anxiety is telling me that I haven’t got an interview, and I’m definitely not going to be considered as i applied after the deadline. Even though I’ve had emails and a phone conversation which indicate that this isn’t the case.
    Anybody applied after the deadline and still got in? Anybody been a mature student and have anything to share about it?
    I’m going to really miss my dog.

    1. Hope is hopeful*

      I work in a Russell Group UK uni. All uni’s are different, we personally do not take applications after the deadline (but we also don’t advise people to apply because of that) We are also getting many phone calls about hearing back. It takes time to assess between 35-40,000 applications. If you are worried, follow up with a phone call (quicker response than emailing) to your uni’s on Monday and ask for their timeframe.

      Good luck!

    2. Bagpuss*

      I can’t comment on getting in after the deadline, but I think it was only a fortnight ago, so I would expect there to be a delay before they contact anyone for interviews.
      Best of luck.

    3. NeverNicky*

      I went to Uni as a mature student – I graduated at 43 – life changing. Think “Educating Rita” style changes (although I’m not a Scouser, nor was I a hairdresser).
      Hard work, frustrating at times but so worth it.
      Good luck!

  119. SpiderLadyCEO*

    I am facing a weird issue right now! It’s probably me making a mountain out of a molehill, but I am freaking out. My boss is coming to town at the end of February, and I have no clue how this is going to go. I’m the only employee in the whole state (our who department works remotely all over the US) and so I work from home.

    She’ll be in town for three days, and I’m terrified she’ll end up at my place at some point, and I do not want that! Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation?

    1. Half-Caf Latte*

      I have not, but if you’re worried about being steamrolled into inviting her vs. meeting out somewhere (that’s what i took from your post?), I would have an unfortunate plumbing emergency that would make it impossible for her to come by.

      Sorry- toilet is broken. Neighbor has been letting me use hers for the day, plumber coming out, but I couldn’t possibly have you here, too embarrassing!

      1. SpiderLadyCEO*

        That is the best idea ever, thank you so much! Even if I end up not having to worry about it, it will be good to have that in my pocket just to deploy as needed.

    2. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      It would be quite strange, IME, if she thought she was going to be at your house (or that you would be invited to her hotel suite/room!) Instead of coming up with a plumbing story, just scope out some business friendly places to suggest in your area. If you have alternative suggestions at the ready, it’ll be easy to deflect, “I’m afraid that won’t be possible, but the library has small meeting rooms and I can put in a reservation.”

      I have no idea what size town you live in, but a lot of public libraries have small meeting rooms you can schedule. Lots of hotels have conference rooms. Does your town have a community center or YMCA — sometimes those have small meeting rooms? Then there is the old standby of a local coffee shop.

    3. TheTallestOneEver*

      Maybe you can proactively suggest meeting up for coffee so you can meet face to face. I don’t think your boss would expect to come to your home.

  120. Back to Work. Work, Work, Work.*

    What do you think of the story of a young UK woman who turned down a job offer because her second interview with the CEO was abusive? She wrote the company an email that she rejected the offer because the CEO was rude and insulting, she had just left an abusive partner, and she didn’t want to undergo verbal abuse at work. She also said that she doesn’t believe that CEO will ever change his behavior, even after she wrote his company about his behavior. And her rejection letter is now going viral on Twitter. Personally, I believe she dodged a bullet. Or a whole machine gun blast of bullets. But was she right to write a detailed explanation to the HR department and then put it on blast?

    1. Lumen*

      I think looping in HR was a good idea. I’m pretty tired of “X behaves terribly and treats people like garbage, let’s all keep our mouths shut because Professionalism” as a concept. Being awful to people needs to be something that is risky, that will impact your career and reputation, that will keep people from wanting to work with you or help you.

      In the age of where internet shaming can rapidly become grotesque and even life-threatening, I’m a little wary of her posting it on Twitter, though. She already spoke to his company about it. She already rejected the job. She did what she needed to do to protect herself and raise a flag about his behavior for others. I don’t think putting it on public social media was wise, necessary, or right.

      1. Agent J*

        She also said that she doesn’t believe that CEO will ever change his behavior, even after she wrote his company about his behavior.

        I think this is the key. So many people have gotten away with rotten behavior for so long that internet shaming seems like the only way to ensure they’re heard. I don’t agree internet shaming is always the way to go because there are plenty of stories of that backfiring on the person who thought the world would agree with them.

        1. valentine*

          Twitter can be a great spotlight on wrongdoing. If nothing else, she’s warned everyone off, which I appreciate.

          1. Mobuy*

            And a great vehicle for abuse! I mean, the CEO can’t respond but he CAN get abused! By the whole world! What a wonderful invention the internet is. We can hear just ove side of the story and make judgments about the worth of the characters involved.

            I think THIS is what is meant by the earlier post re: critical thinking.

    2. CAA*

      I thought that complaining to HR was reasonable, but she should have had someone else review the letter before sending it. Calling herself a “young girl” in a business letter and describing an abusive relationship she had in the past make her look like she doesn’t have good professional judgment, which could call into question her interpretation of the situation. Posting it publicly means that it’ll be there every time a future employer googles her name for life, which could also hurt her more than it hurts him in the long run.

      1. Lumen*

        Agreed. It also makes it more of a “I am personally wounded” (valid, but not necessarily meaningful on a larger scale) instead of a “this behavior is professionally unacceptable” (also valid, but matters more on a company or industry scale).

    3. Need to think of a name*

      Heard this being discussed on the radio and it seems that’s his interview style

    4. Ann O.*

      This is how I know I’m old: no, I don’t think she was right to put it on Twitter. It looks like she’s getting plenty of job support, but I would not be interested in working with her or for her or having her work for me as a result of it.

      I also think “abusive” is a huge stretch for the behavior she described. I probably wouldn’t have accepted a job with that style, but I think that’s a personal decision. And I’ve learned over the past several years that I can’t judge a one-sided, out-of-context account. I don’t know what the CEO actually said during the line-by-line review or what the judge entails. It’s possible the job requires someone who can handle very blunt, direct comments about their work and that his comments were actually on target and appropriate.

  121. Harbinger of Pop*

    I’ve noticed a lot of letters lately are “my coworker does X minor annoying thing, but I don’t like it and what do I do about it?”

    Try talking to people? And, asking yourself if the request is reasonable.

    For instance, in my workplace we have a guy who wears his keys on a lanyard that “clanks” when he walks. It bothers exactly one person when he walks by her cube four times a day–once to enter, once to leave for lunch, once to return from lunch, and once to leave for the day. This woman has made a federal case out of this guy’s lanyard of keys. She has emailed me (as his boss), my boss, and the entire department about “the noise of Brad’s keys!”
    I literally asked her what the problem was. She said, “his keys are loud and I don’t like the noise.” I told her had she tried asking him to hold his keys in his hand if it was that big of a deal for the microseconds he is in her earshot. She did not like that answer but I refuse to address something so stupid.

    For perspective, this woman also complained to my boss and HR that I use the word “Pop” instead of “Soda.” Because “Pop” is somehow offensive to her. Sorry, grew up in the Midwest. It’s Pop.

    1. Agent J*

      I’m with you. I don’t know if it’s a reflection of the world we live in or if it’s always been this way, but people seem more and more petty at work. A lot of things that I think should fall under It’s Not That Big of a Deal / Mind Your Own Business, turn into This Person is Making Me Miserable So Fix It.

      Or maybe we’re just low maintenance people.

      1. valentine*

        Where is this land where one need only ask and people will stop doing gross/annoying/offensive things? People want to know what bothers me so they can do it immediately and repeatedly and delight in watching me squirm.

        If she asked him to quiet his keys and he said no or she got tired of reminding him or he got tired of the reminding, would you have a word with him then?

        1. Lady Roofer*

          I can’t figure out where “clanking keys” is offensive…?
          I hope to God none of you ever work in construction. The noise, smells, cursing, etc would probably put the usual LWs on this page into therapy.

    2. Sam Sepiol*

      For perspective, this woman also complained to my boss and HR that I use the word “Pop” instead of “Soda.” Because “Pop” is somehow offensive to her. Sorry, grew up in the Midwest. It’s Pop.
      She… WHAT?!
      Some people really don’t have enough to do….

        1. CAA*

          I am dying to know, what did HR say about the complaint? Does everyone in the office also think she’s crazy?

          1. Harbinger of Pop*

            Hysterical laughter, but since our HR policies require a written response to all written complaints, she was politely told to grow up.

              1. You Call it Soda, But I Call it Pop*

                Also in the Midwest. I live in a college town which draws students from throughout the world. It’s probably the only place in the whole state where most people call carbonated beverages “soda” instead of “pop.” I find it irritating, BECAUSE WE CALL IT POP HERE, YOU FORKERS! ;)

            2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

              Tell her that in some parts of the country we call everything with bubbles but no alcohol “Coke”, regardless of manufacturer or flavour. See how she likes that!

              1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

                “Is Pepsi okay?”

                West coast checking in — everything is coke when used in the generic sense of carbonated beverage. “Getting a drink” or “meet up for drinks” means alcohol.

  122. So long and thanks for all the fish*

    How does one find a non-academic job as a STEM PhD? I’m writing my dissertation and job hunting, and feel like I’m having a hard time finding job postings I’d be qualified for that don’t ask for a 2-3 year postdoc. Most people I know who have gotten jobs right out of graduate school get them from industry recruiting on campus, but the only industry recruiting we hear about is from a small sub-field I have no experience in :/ I wouldn’t mind doing a postdoc, except that I’m very concerned about my ability to pay for both living expenses and student loans on a postdoc’s salary… Does anyone have advice?

          1. So long and thanks for all the fish*

            I’d been looking on Indeed, Monster, Glassdoor, and C&EN, but I hadn’t heard of biospace! thank you!

    2. irene adler*

      Can you connect with professional organizations in the field or fields you wish to work in? They can give you advice on jobs in the industry. Maybe even some job leads too.

    3. Bostonian*

      My gut is to suggest pharma/biotech (doesn’t even have to be research), but that’s because there are so many of those jobs in my city; it will be different elsewhere.

      1. So long and thanks for all the fish*

        I guessed Boston from your comment before I saw your name :)

        You’re right, there are. I’ve been finding it slightly tricky because I don’t know which companies might be hiring that I don’t know about, and for whatever reason none of them seem to advertise on industry job boards, just their own websites. I’ve also never heard back from anywhere Boston area- my applications seem to vanish into the mist, which isn’t the case when I’ve applied to positions in other places. I’m wondering if it’s that I’m not a Harvard or MIT graduate :/

        1. formerDoDscientist*

          I had tons of high level experience with the government, and a PhD in biochemistry that I’ve had for more than a decade, and it took many applications (like easily 50+) to biotechs through Glassdoor until I even got an interview. I started a job in Cambridge last fall and I absolutely love it. It was a 2k+ mile move for me, but totally worth it. I think when applying in a sector you’ve never worked in, that may be geographically distant, it’s a numbers game , especially if you don’t know anybody. Yes, there are tons of universities here, and I think the bar was quite a bit higher for me because I wasn’t local and had no official industry experience, but I found a company with a great cultural fit.

    4. Reba*

      Check out VersatilePhD.com if you haven’t already!

      Are there conferences in your field that are attended by industry and academics sides?

      Good luck with your search.

      1. So long and thanks for all the fish*

        I was hoping something like that existed, thank you!

        None that I can attend, unfortunately. My lab is very poorly funded at the moment and I have little time.

    5. CMart*

      I don’t know where to find this kind of job, but a friend of mine with a chemistry PhD went into public policy work. She first got a fellowship that worked with the state government (California assembly), then got hired by the Assemblywoman she was a fellow for, and now works for a lobbying group as a director. All of those roles were advisory and policy-making in nature which she finds incredibly fulfilling (and medium-okay paying).

    6. Robin Q*

      I’ve found the myIDP website helpful. It helps you identify areas of interest and I think it gives you some ideas of what to do once you’ve identified an area although it’s a while since I’ve done it. I’ll post a link in the reply but you should be able to find it for googling. It’s specifically for people in the sciences.

  123. Bekx*

    My mom had a workers comp claim at her place of employment. They are self-insured. They decided to fight her about it, and she had to go to a Psychiatrist that her attorney recommended due to her one doctor thinking she had PTSD or anxiety from the injury. Her company is paying for the psych visit.

    Something she said in therapy was used against her in court. Her employer was able to see her psych’s report. I told her to ask her psych why they could do that, and he said that it’s because they are self-insured.

    My mom had a traumatic brain injury in her teens and has difficulty comprehending things, and is also paranoid about people thinking she’s stupid so she won’t ask for people to re-explain things to her in fear of looking dumb. But now she doesn’t trust the psychiatrist and won’t be honest with him because she thinks her employer is looking at everything she says.

    Is this true that her employer can see all of this because they are paying the bills/are self insured? She won the court case, if that matters.

    1. Bekx*

      By “won’t be honest with him”, I mean, she’s afraid to talk about anything with him, even though her attorney recommended him

    2. ArtK*

      I’d start with the attorney who recommended the psychiatrist. I assume this attorney is familiar with labor law since he was engaged on a worker’s comp case.

      If the psychiatrist didn’t disclose to your mom that information would be shared (other than a “yes, she has PTSD”), then there are some ethical issues. I don’t think self-insurance overrides the professional (and legal) obligation to maintain patient confidentiality, but that’s just speculation on my part.

    3. Hope*

      That sounds…not ethical? Just because a parent pays for a psych visit doesn’t mean the parent gets to know what is said by the kid(unless there’s an element of self-harm/harm to others that is a real concern), so I don’t see how that would be different for an employer paying for an employee. I don’t blame her for being paranoid–she shouldn’t trust a psychiatrist who would share her confidential medical info. I would find a different psychiatrist.

    4. Coverage Associate*

      If the psychiatric care was part of the workers comp claim, then, yes, actually the major point was to develop evidence to share with the employer’s attorney and employer. (This should have been explained by the lawyer.) If you’re suing or otherwise making a claim for someone to pay for your injury, then you often have to get a doctor to certify you have the injury and need the recommended medical care, and it’s not just a note the doctor gives, but details to explain the doctor’s opinion. Sometimes, the opposing party (here, the employer) can even make you be examined by a doctor they choose.

      Since your mom’s own lawyer recommended the doctor, it sounds like the legal goal was to prove that she had a mental health issue from work. The employer would have argued that she didn’t have an issue, or it wasn’t caused by work.

      Your family should think of the doctor recommended by the lawyer as part of the legal team. If the legal issues are resolved, find another doctor.

  124. Astrea*

    (Self-talk)

    I’m trying to unlearn the self-inflicted mindset that I shouldn’t apply for a job unless I absolutely *know* that I want it and can physically do it. I got this mindset from a series of experiences – preemptively declining (saying I couldn’t have taken) a dream job mid-interview because I’d realized I couldn’t relocate to that area, becoming dangerously depressed in a job that I strongly hadn’t wanted to take and ultimately resigned from, and worsening my chronic pain in jobs that my mind loved but my body didn’t. But those don’t necessarily need to happen again, and I can survive if they do. *If* I get interviewed for a job I’m not sure about, I might learn more about the job and workplace at that time. *If* I’m offered the job, I can get the remaining information I need, and decline the offer if I don’t want that at that time. *If* I take the job and it hurts me too much, I can resign. What matters is submitting an application before I lose the opportunity. Expressing great enthusiasm for a job and then saying I don’t want it after all feels like lying, and I worry that it could impact the employer’s opinion of me should I ever apply for a different job with them. But such things happen.

    Also struggling not to overthink every little bit of an application after submitting it. “Don’t obsess or agonize” is Alison’s command, but when I habitually overthink and agonize over *everything* I do, I can’t easily flip a switch and not do that for a job application.

    1. LadeeDa*

      Aww good luck!!!
      One of the techniques I use when I am overthinking everything- is to stop thinking about WHAT I am doing, and think about WHY am doing it. WHY is often more important than the what.

    2. AudreyParker*

      I can completely relate to this. I am a big over-thinker and will spend hours just trying to determine what the recruiter means by “proficient” because I certainly don’t know everything about *any* program out there and I don’t want to lie or over-promise. Also probably way too responsible for others — I think of it as having integrity, it’s hard for me to see the line between that and self-sacrifice. So I don’t want to take a part-time job or something that sounds subpar because I don’t want to leave soon after I get trained, and am very focused on not wasting other people’s time & energy. Meanwhile, I still have no income. I definitely need to take some of your self-talk myself!

      1. LadeeDa*

        Try to remember that your work ethic isn’t the same as corporate responsibility. If you need a job, take a job. If you leave, you leave. Would they think twice about laying you off 3 months after you start? Probably not. Turn over is real, and it is a cost the company plans for.

        1. AudreyParker*

          Thank you – this is so hard for me to take to heart, I think mostly because I think of coworkers & clients vs The Company, and generally like the people I work with so don’t want to screw them up. But it helps to hear when other people are really able to think of it as “business is business”.

        2. Astrea*

          In the federal US government, or at least one of the parts of it where I’ve worked, turnover is *required* to be slow, with new hires starting work something like 4-6 weeks after taking the job. That allows for relocation as many jobs don’t, but can leave workplaces understaffed for a long time. Half of the employees at my workplace resigned in quick succession in May and June, and the first replacement arrived sometime in September IIRC. But I resigned soon afterward anyway, because I couldn’t logistically or emotionally sustain working and living in that area, and they would be better off in the long term with someone who could. As one of my colleagues told me when leaving for another job, you look out for #1 — yourself.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I really, really, really hope that post is by a troll.

      If it’s real, I hope the OP outs that company everywhere it is possible to out someone.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Definitely reads like a troll post, based on the comments and the OP disappearing after writing the post. Scary if true, but not likely to actually be true.

  126. Half-Caf Latte*

    I generally work out of two main locations, which are both near public transit. We are asked to take public transit back and forth between them (company pays the fare, employees who have unlimited passes will also sometimes use those).

    Yesterday, during the almighty polar vortex, I started my day at a satellite location, one that doesn’t have nearly as good public transit.

    I was especially thankful for my reasonable org and boss, and ability to expense an uber back to home base.

  127. GigglyPuff*

    I found out this week my manager is changing my work after I’ve submitted it (not something you would check after submission unless someone tells you), but not telling me. These are valid changes, I would’ve liked to know that I should’ve been doing the work that way. But they’ve also been doing some of the changes incorrectly or messing up something that is a pet peeve of mine, not necessarily must do, but more of a best practices. It peeved me off so much. I was just getting refrained in my mind dealing with an absent manager long term (been job searching two years but still here), and just keeping my head down and getting my work done. But seriously continuing to change/fix my work for months without telling me? Ugh. Made me really angry. Plus we just started mid year reviews, and I’m afraid they’re going to tell me I need to pay attention to that portion of my work better, but how am I supposed to do it better when they don’t tell me I’ve been doing it incorrectly (since I’ve been doing that type of works for years, just doing a new portion not up to best practices).

  128. AnonyMouse*

    I just recently was notified that I did not receive a job offer from a position that was initially promising. They recently reposted the position earlier today, and I’m starting to put the pieces together that this may have been a failed search. The search did drag on for a long time (I applied in early October, didn’t get the rejection until mid-January), so I’m wondering if that may have been a factor. I’m wondering if it’s worthwhile to reapply? In these situations, is it close to a 0% chance I’ll get an interview since they didn’t offer to me the first time? Or is it still a possibility?

    For those who have been in a similar situation and decided to reapply, how much did you change up your application materials the second time around? The position description is identical, and I feel like my old materials still apply very well.

    1. CAA*

      How much effort is there in applying again? If it’s a short and easy process, then go ahead. If it requires a great deal of time and effort, then contact the recruiter first and mention that you saw that the job was reposted and you’re still very interested in the role and you wonder if she could give you any feedback about why you did not get an interview and whether you should apply again.

      1. AnonyMouse*

        It would be minimal effort to reapply. And I should clarify I got an interview last time and made it to the final round. Not sure if that changes your answer.

        1. CAA*

          Hmm. Yes, I think since they did interview you, you probably should not apply again. I do think it’s o.k. to contact the recruiter or hiring manager and ask for feedback on your candidacy while reiterating your interest in the position.

    2. Hope*

      It’s unlikely, but if you want to try, I’d rewrite the cover letter and take a hard look at your CV and all of your materials and make sure everything is flawless. Update dates, etc. if anything’s changed since you first applied, obviously. If the search failed and they put together a new search committee, you might have a shot.

      1. AnonyMouse*

        So it maybe wasn’t clear in my original post, but I actually made it to the final round of interviews last time. So I’m not really worried about the quality of my CV and Cover letter, I’m more wondering if I should change it when I reapply… Also not sure if the fact that I did interview changes your answer.

    3. Need to think of a name*

      Could it be that they hired someone who didn’t work out?

      Depending on when you were interviewed could you reach out to the company and ask.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        This. How did they leave it when they let you know the decision? For instance, in one case I was told that they were offering the position to someone else but hoped I would be interested in future positions. I would definitely contact them directly in this circumstance rather than reapplying.

      2. AnonyMouse*

        I know we’re past the weekend for this open thread, but on the off chance someone sees this I’m thinking that may have been what happened. When they notified me that I didn’t get it, the email said they has “extended preliminary offers to the successful candidates.” However, the automated notice of the position closure said that the position was “cancelled” and not “filled/closed” (I’ve applied to multiple positions with this organization, so I recognize the difference). Now it’s been reposted. I’m guessing they weren’t anticipating having to repost when they notified me. Someone that I know within the organization told me that HR is relatively strict about whether or not you can offer to someone else in the pool after a decline.

  129. ThatGirl*

    I’m a little late to ask this but hopefully people will see – we are going away for an overnight in March and needed someone to watch our dog. I put a sign up at work with his picture on it to entice people. I got a response from the VP of finance (who is not in my reporting line, I should note) that their family would be glad to. We’re arranging a meet and greet but it looks like it will work out.

    On the flyer I said “pay negotiable” but when I spoke to the VP he didn’t mention it one way or another. I definitely want to offer to pay them a modest sum, but how should I do that, and how much do you think is fair? (It would be roughly 24 hours, and our dog is honestly very well behaved and easygoing.)

    1. Catsaber*

      I pay about $80/per night for boarding my dogs at the vet, so I think somewhere around that. I would bring it up at the meet n greet and let them know what you are planning on paying.

      1. So long and thanks for all the fish*

        $80/night at the vet?! Jeez, my vet is like $20 and the doggy daycares around here are only $40

    2. Sam Sepiol*

      How senior is he to you? (Is he senior to you?)

      I probably wouldn’t do this tbh. It feels too weird to have someone very high up in your company be paid to watch your dog. Have you any other alternatives?

      1. CTT*

        Seconding alternatives. Do you have anyone in your neighborhood or friends you can ask instead? I know Allison has recommended against asking about this sort of thing at work in the past because too many things can go wrong.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Not really. My inlaws used to be our go-to, but they moved out of state; my parents are both out of state, we’ve run the idea by a few friends but for various reasons it isn’t going to work. We’d rather not board him, it seems so impersonal, and he’s a cuddly little attention whore.

          I really think this will be fine – I’m not worried about work because I don’t interact with this guy at all during the course of my day. I just want to know how to approach offering payment.

      2. ThatGirl*

        He is senior to me. I am nowhere near VP level. I don’t report to him at all, as I said, and I don’t have any qualms about letting him do it – I’m just wondering about the payment part.

    3. Bekx*

      Go on rover.com and see how much the going rate is for dog-boarding in someone’s home. I’d then pick a number around there.

      It’s around $30-40 in my area.

    4. MuseumMusings*

      As someone who does occasionally watch pets, I wouldn’t take up the VP’s offer. I’ve dog sat for people in the same office as me and it usually ends up awkwardly (especially during my experience with a VP’s dog, so maybe I’m projecting). It also depends if the dog is staying at his house or he’s staying at your house (both make me feel kinda iffy about it the entire thing – are you /sure/ there’s no one else interested?) and if some kind of emergency happens (even if your dog is well behaved, sometimes they don’t act the same way for others and accidents/destruction can occur) during the stay.

      However, if you are determined to use what is available to you (and I do understand that), I’d go with somewhere from 75 – 80 dollars, much Catsaber recommended. I’d also have him stay over at your house for better familiarity for the dog, but that then involves the VP sleeping in your house (!!!! – as I said above…I’m not quite sure he’s the best fit).

      1. ThatGirl*

        I appreciate that everyone means very well! But I do not have any qualms about this, I’m just asking how to non-awkwardly bring up payment.

        Our dog would be staying at their house – he has a wife and kids and a dog of their own, and he thought the dogs would get along well. We’ll only be an hour or so away if some sort of disaster strikes. I’m planning to take our dog to their house to a) make sure the dogs get along b) make sure our dog likes him/his family and c) work out details. He has a crate he can sleep in or be put in if he’s being a weiner, and of course we would take care of any accidents, medical emergencies, etc., etc. I’d also gladly watch their dog for a weekend if everything works out well.

        Seriously – I appreciate it but I didn’t ask “should I do this”, I asked about bringing up offering to pay.

        1. Bostonian*

          Ah, I missed the crux of your question- how to bring it up. When you go to pick up the pup, just matter-of-factly say, “Thank you so much!” and hand him the money. If he tries to refuse it, say that his help meant a lot and you want to pay him for it.

        2. MuseumMusings*

          Whoops, sorry about that. In that case, just bringing it up when the dogs meet, “I’m thinking of something around the $75 range, how does that sound to you?” You don’t have to add the last bit, as it may bring up negotiation for more, but best of luck! Of course, if something happens in a doggie related accident, pay for that, but you seem to have that covered.

          Best of luck with your overnight trip!

        3. Reba*

          We dog-sat for a coworker of my spouse several months ago. Dog owner was technically higher up than spouse at the time, but not in reporting line. She offered to pay what she would have to a kennel, but we declined — I adore her dog, who stayed at our place, and it was really a treat for me!

          She brought up payment initially in the request, and then again when she was going over all the instructions about food etc. That seems like the natural time! Ultimately dog owner gave us a love bottle of booze from the trip she went on, which was not necessary but appreciated.

          1. ThatGirl*

            I’m glad to hear about a time that went well. I’m not delusional, our dog is not perfect but he’s very well behaved and loveable, and we’ve done our share of dog sitting, so we know what can go wrong. And I appreciate the tips on when to offer:)

    5. Bostonian*

      Depends on if the service is just stopping by to walk/feed dog OR stay overnight.

      For my cats, professional services have cost me $20-$25/day for a 30-minute visit or $50/day for an overnight stay. I imagine a dog would cost a bit more. Another thing that would cost more is if your dog required medication or any other special attention. It also depends on COL of your area. Some information to help your calculus.

    6. Lady Kelvin*

      Look around at what boarding places charge. Then go with something similar. We typically pay 60-80 a night to board the pup, and our friend worked for a dog walking company for a while. We know that they charged 65 a night of which she got 40, so when she watches our dog we pay her 60 a night directly and we don’t worry about going through the company she works for (mostly because at the time, she only did dog walks for them and not overnight stays, and we wanted her specifically to stay since she’s our friend and our dog loves her). She doesn’t work for them any more and just uses Rover to find gigs, so there’s no issue of going around her old company.

    7. So long and thanks for all the fish*

      Like someone else said, you could say something like “do you think $50-75 is fair?” You could also offer repayment in kind if they ever need it instead- IDK, the VP might feel strange accepting money from someone far below them on the heirarchy and might be more comfortable having a favor in kind agreement instead

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Pick up dog.
        Give money in envelope to VP (I agree with whatever the going rate in your area is no need to go above that).
        Thank them again for helping out.
        Leave.
        If VP refuses payment, offer again one more time, if rebuffed, express your gratitude, leave and don’t give it a second thought.

        Seems pretty straightforward.

    8. JR*

      If he tried to turn down payment and you aren’t comfortable with that, you can position it as paying the kids (but don’t do that in front of them, in case he still wants to decline).

  130. Sam Sepiol*

    I was talking to the Chair of one of our organisation’s Staff Networks the other day, and I think they may hold some anti-trans views.

    I feel like I have a responsibility to bring this up – this is someone who has dealings with the LGBTQIA+ staff group. What do you all think? For reference I’m in some staff networks but not the LGBTQIA+ one but I know who runs it.

    1. Sleepytime Tea*

      Well it really depends on what they said or did to make you think they hold those views. If there is nothing concrete you can point to, there’s really not anything to bring up. You can say “I think they have anti-trans views” and the response will be “why do you think that?” If you don’t have someone specific to point to, then there’s no action item to take and nothing to be done. If you’re not sure, I wouldn’t say anything yet.

      1. Sam Sepiol*

        Well they said some stuff that points to it, I just don’t want to say what as it would be obvious it was me.

        I don’t want the person to be fired or even removed from this role! But I think someone needs to have a very serious talk with them to say that it’s not acceptable to say that kind of thing in the office.

      1. Sam Sepiol*

        … yeah so when I think about it, partly because I don’t want it to be true so I’m desperately hoping I misconstrued the comments, but also partly because it’s highly likely that if anyone talked to them about it, it would be obvious that it came from me.

        My org has its faults but it is doing a lot at the minute to promote equality and fairness and the comments just didn’t seem in line with that.

        Oh man. I really don’t want to have to take action, but I think I really do.

  131. Lucia*

    Ugh. I just scheduled a first interview for a job, in which they want the person they select to complete a 2-3 week paid trial period. Not sure I want to consider quitting my current job for that. I may have to bow out of this one, which is frustrating because I’m having trouble finding openings I’m qualified for.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      2-3 WEEKS?? I feel like the pool of people who are available and able to commit to this is incredibly small. Is it possible they only want a few hours during your off-work hours? I am baffled by this.

      1. Lucia*

        That’s something I hadn’t thought of. I may ask if it’s 2-3 weeks full time or, as you say, just a few hours. Thanks!

    2. FancyNancy*

      Nope, nope, nope. They’re clearly ineffective interviewers if they need that as part of the hiring process, and I’d be skeptical that they would have a good enough handle of your abilities after just 2 weeks to make a decision.

      And no way would I quit a job for this.

    3. Lucia*

      Yeah, they want to see if the person will “mesh” with their team. She didn’t mention this part of the deal until after we’d scheduled an interview time, and I wasn’t quite able to process it in time to say no thanks. I think I will probably cancel, so as not to have to take time off for it when it’s unlikely I’d accept an offer.

        1. Rainy days*

          Ugh, I fell for this once. I worked at a 3-week summer camp for $1k stipend before I even got a job offer. I was desperate to move to the same city as my now-husband, but in retrospect it was really stupid.

  132. Don't Wanna Be Manager*

    I don’t like my new staffer. He’s not a bad guy, he just annoys the crap out of me. He listens to about half of what I tell him, he makes assumptions about what I mean when I say something, he has a response for EVERYTHING. (not snarky, just literally something to say about anything that comes up). He’s focused on activities/tasks that are just not important to the department (but he feels he’s good at these things)l. And there’s a certain part of me that wonders whether he’s really cut out for this job. Essentially, we’re customer service, we deal with sensitive things and have to be tactful with others. He was hired with some experience, but he does everything with a heavy hand, there’s no subtlety and I’m constantly on edge that he’ll do something that will just rub someone the wrong way.

  133. NoodleMara*

    Freelance work question.

    This is my first time doing independent freelance work. I’ve got a contract with oldjob that is good if inconsistent work that I enjoy but they are a company and had a contract made up as soon as I agreed to keep working on certain projects.

    I had a potential client email me about writing a llama feeding plan (needs certification I have to write it) and I don’t know when to mention about a contract. We’re working on arranging a meeting to begin going over things and the ball is currently in my court to say when I’m available. Should I include a line in the meeting set up email about putting together and signing a contract? Are there any good scripts for that? I don’t want to drop this on them at the meeting for sure but I still have to write up a dang contract. I mostly just need words help. Thanks!

    1. Need a Beach*

      “Do you have a standard contract form that you’ll be bringing along to the meeting, or should I provide my own?”

      1. FLEMBOT*

        ^ This is a perfect script. I have a standardized contract that I can tweak for projects, but rarely end up needing to use it; my clients typically provide one without prompting. You may also find it worth your time to see if there are any industry publications that lay out contract basics, so you can familiarize yourself with norms. Congrats on the gig, and good luck!

  134. WorkBee*

    I’m reaching a point in my career where everyone I guess assumes I want to move up/have more responsibility. The problem is…moving up means longer hours, more travel, and frankly more anxiety. I feel like I’m already ruining my health mentally and physically where I am now and have been somewhat looking for an “escape route”/new job that will mean more stable hours and significantly less travel. My problem is….my field is such that my reputation will take a huge hit (or at the very least, people will gossip about me) if I move downwards to avoid more responsibility. I turned down an extracurricular “opportunity” earlier this year because I really just want to preserve what free time I have, and I can tell that people are looking at me weirdly/differently (to anyone else it’d be a great opportunity/resume builder! But I just…didn’t want to). Well, I just got notified today that they are looking to fill a position and want me to apply for it that, if I were any other person, would be a huuuuuuge opportunity. I know that logically I should jump at the chance but I just feel sick to my stomach :( I just hate that I’m already so far down this path that the only way to turn around would be to burn a lot of bridges and start over completely (and unstably) but if I could go back in time I would have chosen to do something completely different with my life. I don’t live to work at my job, but that seems out of sync with everyone else in my field and I don’t know how to get out

    1. Agent J*

      You sound like offer a lot of value to your field. Can you use that as leverage to make future opportunities closer to what would work for you? Can you negotiate scaled-down responsibilities, fewer hours, or smaller projects/tasks to be given to others?

      It may not be possible but something to think about.

    2. Friday Snow*

      Is there a way to move into a similar field with less hours, using the same skills you developed in your current job?

      For example, my last job, for one of my duties, I recruited independent contractor llama groomers and had to interview them. At this job, part of my responsibilities include recruiting independent contractor sheep herders. I knew very little about sheep herding but my past experience as a recruiter for llama groomers helped us get strong sheep herders when needed.

    3. Meredith Brooks*

      Oh friend, I see you. I was you. I am you. I wish I had great advice for a career change, but I don’t. It took me ages to even land on what I wanted to do and for the past few years I’ve been getting the education and background to leverage a job in my preferred career. But, I am still doing what I’ve been doing. And like you, I’m at a company that generally appreciates the work I do and recently I was put in charge of a team to do it. I’m finding it a challenge. I don’t regret taking the new position, but I long for the days of simplicity.

      I will say one thing though. One of the reasons that I have been able to make some inroads in my chosen profession is because I used my experience to land a job at an organization that is in my chosen profession. (Think: education) So although I’m not a teacher now, I support teachers and I’m hoping that will help me land a decent position as a teacher. So I wonder if you might be able to use your current career to make a lateral move into an industry you would like to work in?

  135. Miss Smilla*

    This week two different colleagues microwaved fish in the office.
    I sit quite close to the kitchen so it’s been horrible.
    Yesterday I was in the dining room and had to stop eating.
    Today the smell was so bad I couldn’t eat lunch. We always keep our office door closed but we could still smell the fish for hours.

    I knew it can get smelly but I had no idea it’s actually this bad. Plus I’m also allergic to the detergent we have in the kitchen so I have a rash on my face. Here’s to a better week in terms of everything kitchen-related!

      1. Miss Smilla*

        The kitchen’s managed by the company that owns the building and we are sharing it with other companies (although we account for 90% of the users) so it would be a quite complicated purchase unfortunately. Many parties have to agree about putting anything extra in there.
        I overheard some conversations that suggest there have been so many complaints against our company that they will fine/forbid us from the kitchen. Many of my colleagues do think dirty dishes disappear magically and the more surface food covers the tidier the kitchen is so part of me is getting ready to witness the kitchen war.

  136. matcha123*

    Has anyone had perfectly acceptable work picked apart by a colleague? If so, do you know why they did it? What actions did you take?
    I am in translation and my work is checked by a senior colleague and then my supervisor (who is not a native speaker of English). The senior-level colleague rewrites the vast majority of my work. It it possible that I have a reading problem and I am not putting sentences together in some proper order, but I don’t feel as if that is the case.

    The rewrites tend to focus on rearranging the order of my sentences, which from my view, do not change the meaning at all. The language I am translating from, Japanese, is notorious for long-winded sentences that do not explicitly state a subject. Words often need to be added and needless repetitions need to be removed for the English translation to make sense. Paragraph-long sentences are usually cut into two or three sentences to make them more readable for English-speakers. Where to cut a sentence is really up to the translator.

    I am always up to hear about how I can improve, but I do take some offense to basically being called incompetent. And in this case, I feel like there’s a push to get me out…

    1. Meredith Brooks*

      I tend to write Marketing materials. On some level they’re pretty straightforward, but what people prefer to see is extremely subjective. Sometimes it’s just personal preference, so it may be a matter of understanding what your supervisors are looking for and to try and adapt to that. But, I also think you should ask if there’s something different they would prefer to see. If they’re trying to push you out, to me you have almost nothing to lose. At worst they might fault you for the question (but based on your post, they’re already faulting you for the product) and at best it will look like you’re trying to be helpful and supportive.

  137. Rebecca*

    Two Gripes! These two things irritate me and I just want them to stop.

    1. Who thought it would be an awesome idea to program our office phones to chirp a little “do do doop” every 20 or 30 seconds if we get a voice mail? Isn’t the annoying red flashing light enough? Did they not think that maybe someone might be out of the office for a day or two and that no matter how many times the “do do doop” occurs, no one will listen to the voice mail??? To get around this, I just turn the volume all the way down on my phone until I’m ready to listen to the message. Sometimes I need 10 or 15 minutes to finish what I’m working on before I get to the next thing!

    2. And in Outlook – if anyone knows how to thwart that “you have an attachment open” pop up, please tell me. Yes, I know. I’m looking at it and adding info to the email I’m sending. Yes, I get it – it’s open, and if I change something, I have to save it and reattach it. OMG is this really a problem???

    //end rant. Anyone have any pet peeves to add?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Ugh seriously? It doesn’t stop chirping until the voicemail is listened to? That sounds like HELL.

      1. Rebecca*

        It is!! And when people are out, like on vacation, we go around and turn down the sound and just put a note on the phone that says “I turned down the volume on your phone due to voice mail”. It happened last Fall, we came in one day and the phones were making that sound, and we quickly found out it was some sort of “update”. Ugh. I guess it’s meant to be a reminder, but it makes me want to take a hammer to it.

        1. CAA*

          Have you asked your IT or telecom people if there’s a way to turn this off? Usually there’s something in the phone settings menu where you record your name and out of office message that’ll let you turn off this sort of thing.

    2. Ali G*

      I have 2 monitors – one is right in front of me and the other is off to the side. I use the one in front for email, typing, things that I am actively “doing” and the one to the side for internet and for things I may need to refer to while doing other things. Well, apparently Outlook is a little Brat because if I spend too much time on the “other” monitor, it starts flashing its icon on my task bar. It freaks me out because I think I have forgotten an appointment or something! Nope it’s just Outlook reminding me its still there.

    3. Admin of Sys*

      re: 2) you’re talking about the “If you continue, you’ll lose your changes to the attachment [name] opened from the message. ” message, yes? That’s from the autosave function. It pops up every time outlook autosaves, so if you increase the time between the autosaves, it’ll pop-up less. (note: this will create a higher chance of losing updates from your draft if outlook crashes)
      The setting is under: File -> Options -> Mail, about halfway down the window in the ‘Save messages’ section.

      1. Rebecca*

        Ah, thank you!! I’m going to check this out first thing Monday AM. Mine must be set at 30 seconds or something like that, because it seems like I just open the attachment to check something, and I get that message. Again, it feels like hammer time after a few minutes.

  138. Katty Kat*

    I start a new job next week! It’s a casual work place, when I interviewed I noticed the new were wearing jeans, button up shirts or polos. The women were wearing either jeans with sweaters, leggings under a tunic or dress. So it should be fine for me to show up first day in jeans, a sweater and boots? It’s also supposed to be snowy and cold my first day. I’m probably over thinking it because I’m nervous.

    1. Bostonian*

      Yes, you should be fine!

      My office is business casual, but I still kind of dressed up for the first day. I felt out of place, but they also took by security badge picture that day, so I was kind of glad I looked more put together.

    2. CAA*

      Some places are more casual on Fridays, so if you happened to interview on a Friday, you might want to go a half step nicer than what you saw people wearing just to be safe (i.e. a blouse and cardigan instead of a pull-over sweater, shoes instead of boots). If you were there any other day of the week, then something similar to what you saw other people wearing should be just fine.

    3. UtOh!*

      Sounds perfectly fine, especially since it’s a casual work environment and you’ve seen what people are wearing. Your described attire sounds like it would be in line with what the rest of the staff is wearing.

  139. AdAgencyChick*

    What’s your favorite music to listen to while working on something that requires concentration? I’m looking for some more ideas.

    I like the Bodega Sounds playlist on Spotify. It’s exactly what it sounds like — the music you might hear in a NYC bodega. I speak a bit of Spanish, but not enough that the lyrics are distracting. And somehow the rhythm has the effect on my brain of quieting down the part of my brain that would jump around to 30 different things instead of staying focused on the thing I’m working on. Sometimes I’ll listen to classical (lower-case c) piano music as an alternative.

    1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I like Baroque music when I can’t do lyrics at all (usually when I’m doing some sort of analysis or writing work.) This morning was Handel’s Water Music.

      I’ve heard good things about video game soundtracks. The logic is they are intended to keep you in a positive and forward moving state of mind (so you keep playing the game), but also be non-intrusive (so your focus is on the game, not the music).

      But when I really need to focus on something, I use the album “Flood” by They Might Be Giants, played straight through, in order, from beginning to end. I don’t think it’s that specific music – I think it’s the fact that I owned that album on cassette and listened to it so much when I was younger that I very nearly have the album memorized. Putting it on random doesn’t have the same effect – I lose flow every time the next song isn’t what I expect. (I suspect I could do the same thing with “Classic Queen”, for basically the same reason.) So if you have any albums of music you effectively memorized in your formative years, that might be something to try.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Ohhhhh video game music! That’s a good one. I’d forgotten how much I enjoy listening to some of the Legend of Zelda series tunes.

    2. Princess Scrivener*

      Oooooh, I like your question. I currently have these as Chrome bookmarks: Calming Seas, 11 hours of ocean waves on YouTube, one of my favorite sounds; simplynoise.com, which plays brown, pink, or white noise; and anything with classical string music (currently Respighi and Corelli).

      I’m excited to see other responses. I wear my Bose in-ears all day while I write, and I can’t do anything with lyrics.

    3. Grace*

      I really like instrumental christmas/winter music, because I know all the songs. It means I don’t get sidetracked by unexpected percussion or brass.

    5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I used to love listening to powwow music very loudly (with headphones) when I was writing my PhD thesis. Very rhythmic but high energy and I don’t know any of the languages so the words were not distracting.

    6. Bend & Snap*

      Anything by Vitamin String Orchestra
      Most classical
      Instrumental movie/TV soundtracks (GoT, that kind of thing)

  140. LQ*

    I’ve been wondering about hills to die on. (Not the commentor :))
    Do people really know what their hills to die on are? Do they say something and change it later? When the rubber meets the road what are the hills you really are willing to die on? And do you know when you are climbing it that that’s what you’re doing? I feel like often the process is slow and the realization either is or feels too late.

    I have a friend who is in a difficult situation at work where each paycheck could be the one that doesn’t come and she’s mad mad mad about it and it is entirely a situation that she’s said is a hill she’d die on in the past, but now that it’s here it’s so gradual that it doesn’t feel the same.
    And the post yesterday about the candy jar, which too me felt like a lot of stress over boundaries which I don’t even see as a thing and people saying that it was a hill they’d die on.
    And the work I’m doing and how many late nights and where the support is and isn’t. And how long to I ride this before I’m done and when I’m done I’m I so far past where I thought I’d be.
    And we are talking about quitting.
    Do you quit because your boss is lying about financials and you may or may not get your paycheck?
    Do you quit because someone moved your stuff?
    Do you quit because another agency is excruciatingly difficult to work with?
    Do you quit because you haven’t gotten a promotion?
    Do you quit because you’re working 50+ hours a week for the rest of forever?

    How often do people really say, this is a hill I’m going to die on and then do it? How often do people say they will and then don’t? Am I on a hill I should die on but am lying to myself about it?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      It absolutely happens that what you thought was a Hill ends up turning into a Plain as you get worn down over time. My personal thing is disrespect or abuse at work – name-calling, shouting, etc … but the people I know who deal with it happening say that it came on slowly and they felt so stuck and now they don’t realize how bad it’s gotten.

      In general, I think you can start job searching and quit for absolutely any reason at all, including “meh, I’m in the mood for a change” – but like, walking out with nothing lined up is a tough decision to make.

      1. LQ*

        I think it comes on slowly is a big deal to it.

        I definitely agree that job searching can be for anything, but …it seems like a hill to die on is sort of different. It’s quitting without something lined up, or pushing back hard enough to get fired.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      I have only once quit a job without something else lined up, and that was because I was moving for personal reasons. But I’m a pretty risk-averse person, so I will put up with quite a lot while reminding myself of what I’m doing to get out of the situation.

      That being said, I’ve had plenty of situations where I choose not to die on the hill by quitting, but by trying to limit the impact on me as soon as possible. Higher-ups are demanding lots of extra hours? I’ll get firmer about saying when I can and can’t be there, and on the days I can’t be there, leave things in as good a place as possible but still leave, even if someone is squawking at me on my way out the door. Over the long term this might get me branded as “not a team player,” but in a situation like this I’m trying to get out before the long term is even an issue.

      I would make it a hill to die on if a company actually missed or shorted a paycheck. At that point, my primary reason for working is not there, and I think if a company can’t make payroll, doesn’t that qualify you for unemployment?

      1. LQ*

        Yeah, she will, and when they actually don’t make the payroll she’s going to walk out, but right now it’s just sort of a watching the bank account that morning to see if it went in and it’s been delayed for some folks a few days here or there.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      Hill I died on: Implementing an illegal PTO policy which was not HR approved (we were salaried and they tried to make us take a full 8 hours of PTO even if we worked a partial day). I didn’t up and quit in a rage, but I definitely butted heads with my supervisor and director, got HR and legal involved, etc. I knew our working relationship was basically destroyed and I did end up leaving because of it. Don’t regret it.

      Hills I didn’t die on: Crappy expense policies where they wouldn’t cover certain meals when traveling. Misleading me about what the bonus structure was when I accepted a job (found out later it was SIGNIFICANTLY less than they said it would be, which was a pretty big hit). Etc.

      Being willing to die on a hill, and even doing it, doesn’t necessarily mean screaming “I quit” and walking out on a job. I died on that hill over the PTO situation partly because no one else on my team was going to do it (or fully understood how incredibly illegal it was). I knew that my director and I would not have a good working relationship after all of that and I had a straight up target on my back. I protected myself as best as I could until I found another job, but I never made a scene, I didn’t walk out, etc. It’s true that people’s resolve will sometimes fail when at the end of the day they fought the good fight and lost, but they simply can’t just walk about from a job and so they give in and live with it. But sometimes you sacrifice things other than your job in the process. Rage quitting isn’t the only way to “die” on that hill.

      1. LQ*

        This is really interesting. Thank you for your response. I think what does dying on a hill really look like is a good point.

      2. Bend & Snap*

        I died on the not getting promoted hill. I was put up for promotion 3x and didn’t get it for financial reasons. Fortune 50 company. Made my unhappiness unknown, they gave me a raise instead. Not a good raise.

        It took me 9 months but I found a waaaaay better job at a company with a sterling reputation, 2 levels up from where I was at old company.

        Suck a dick, old company. So that was a delayed hill, I suppose, but the final straw was the day I didn’t get promoted.

    4. Schnoodle HR*

      As I’ve grown older and, hopefully wiser, there are many many less hills I’d die on.

      In the end, I’ve decided to just not die, no matter how pretty the hill.

      1. LQ*

        This is something I’ve talked with some people about. Some of my friends who are near the end of their careers say that they were the brashest in their 30s, which seems a little odd to me because I’m not really brash at all so I’m not sure how I can fade. But I like the idea of being less stressed out about hills and (hopefully rightfully!) seeing them for the plains they are. I want to pick out a real hill and not a large stair.

    5. Anonforthis*

      I’ve definitely made the statement “The thing you have just asked me to do is immoral and potentially illegal because of x. I’m assuming that’s not what you meant, so please document in email / writing exactly what you do want me to do instead.” with the implication that if I was ordered to do that thing, I would be quitting and taking the evidence with me.
      I’ve also stated that if I would just start working from home if I got moved into a tiny dark cube that was being shared with a communal printer – But at that point, I was already looking for another job.
      I think all of my hills are legal and ethical ones.

    6. yams*

      I actually did quite because I was working 60 hour weeks basically forever when I got more stuff thrown on my plate. I actually left with 3 days notice. I felt kinda bad, but I was super tired and just wanted it to end, y’know?

  141. Anon for this one*

    I know pregnancy/having kids discrimination is illegal and should not happen but as a supervisor I get why it happens.
    I’m in a field that requires 24/7/365 coverage and one of my departments has a lot of women in their twenties who are having kids. It makes coverage extremely difficult because we don’t have the budget or workload to have extra people on a shift. So when someone calls in due to a sick kid, I’m scrambling to find coverage. It’s usually an overnight weekend shift I have to scramble for. Staff that cover get overtime but it’s hard to find people willing to cover, especially when 2-3 people call in the same week and they already had to cover.
    At this point I have no idea anymore how to handle this and all I wish is that I didn’t have staff with young kids

    1. Bork*

      Well, first off I’d recommend re-thinking this as not a woman-related issue but a parental-linked issue, because men and women alike can be called in to take care of their ill children.

      That said, you could always hire older folks who often will not have young children or have older children who can fend for themselves? Age discrimination does not work for younger hires.

      You can also emphasize during hiring that coverage is very important in this role during hiring, and praise and provide incentives for people who’ve been willing and generous in providing coverage. Also, is this the type of role you may be able to hire a last minute temp to fill in for?

      1. valentine*

        It’s not that they have kids, but that they are either not seeking or are canceling (weekend overnight) childcare when their kids are sick. You can make caregiving callouts dependent on coverage, require 24 hours’ notice for callouts, or design an on-call rota. Then, start firing unreliable people.

    2. Reba*

      This is not a women- or young parent-issue. It’s a budget and staffing issue. I get the frustration but try to direct it toward the organization not the individuals. People have lives. So often when there is some issue, the responsibility for it gets put onto individuals (whether that’s workers, consumers, voters) rather than on systems that aren’t really designed to accommodate what they need to function sustainably.

      That sounds tough and I wish you and your department well getting through flu season!

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Can you advocate with your higher-ups for some kind of extra bonus or higher than normal overtime pay rate for those who cover a shift at last minute?

    4. Mobuy*

      How about if, when they call out, they are required to take the next night shift that you need coverage for? Basically, they will be trading *tonight* for *another TBD night.* That way, you make them really think about whether to call out, plus you get semi-guaranteed coverage the next time someone calls out.

  142. MuseumMusings*

    Wish me luck! I’ve got another interview for a development position at a local foundation and I’m super excited! Ever since my full time job (of hair loss, weight loss, crushing depression, and anxiety fame) let me go in January 2018, I’ve been trying to be a little bit picky about finding a place that is a good fit for me (because I luckily have the resources and support for this luxury). I’ve found myself really getting interested in nonprofit development!

    I don’t have any direct experience, but someone who works there mentioned the posting to me and within 24 hours of sending my resume and cover letter, I had an email and an interview the next day! It’s moving so fast and while I’ve religiously poured over Alison’s Interview Guide and I feel confident (I’ve been getting lots of interviews for the jobs I apply for – just not the jobs themselves, lol, so I have experience!!!) but once the hour draws near I get ridiculously nervous, like T-minus 2 minutes to the interview. Is there any advice anyone can throw my way to get rid of these annoying nerves? Thanks in advance!

    1. Lil Fidget*

      I work at a Foundation and it’s a fun space. Good luck! Sometimes in the field we are deliberately trying to hire people who have been in the grantee role so that they’ll be more able to understand the issues – or people who have a lot of subject matter expertise in the area we are funding – so it doesn’t always matter if you have Foundation experience directly. Hold your head up and be proud of what you’re bringing to the table!

      1. MuseumMusings*

        Thank you! It’s aimed at education and giving teachers the resources they need to be creative – something that I really enjoyed during my years at school. Despite not going to this school district, I’ll focus on the teachers I interact with during museum programming and how I’ve supported them with nonformal education programming in the past. It also doesn’t hurt that I have a bunch of friends who are teachers in this district. Thank you so much!

  143. Allornone*

    I just got a new job!

    one, thanks to Allison and her amazing advice, me, introvert of all inverts, finally did well on an interview. I could not have gotten this without her.

    some back story- I spent a good decade working low-paying retail jobs, bookstores mostly. It was only after going back to school and getting my Master’s that I was able to get my foot in the door with my current job. While I’ve been happy here, the pay was still ridiculously low (entry-level non-profit, you can imagine). But I bided my time and got a couple (more- I interned somewhat previously) years of experience, and today, I finally, finally, finally got a job that I think I’ll be good at, but will still challenge me in all the right ways, paving the way for even more opportunities to come. Plus, and this is a big plus, for the first time ever, I’m making a respectable salary (doing something I love, too!). I will no longer live paycheck to paycheck. I can save! I can travel! Pay off student loans! I can do more than just exist! Thank you Alison!

  144. Junior Dev*

    I talked to my boss about how I’m struggling with physical and mental health problems and I’ll probably be bad at stuff like getting to work on time and concentrating on stuff for a while, and it would be helpful to have clarity around what “getting my work done” looks like so I can be sure I’m doing it. He was supportive. The next day he suggested I send a message to the rest of our team (3 other people besides us) to set expectations. I was so intimidated and scared but I did it, and said 1) I’m dealing with some health issues 2) here are the impacts it has on me (sleep problems, back pain), 3) here is what it means for my work (coming in late, working from home more often), 4) here is how you can help (try to schedule meetings in the afternoon, and near to my desk so I can bring my own chair).

    It was hard and scary but I feel like a weight has been lifted having done it. I’m still worried and scared about my health but I think getting it out in the open feels a lot better.

    If you’re in a similar situation I’d talk to your boss first and see how supportive they are, and also consider how robust your HR department is. In my case I didn’t feel a need to involve them more than I already have (getting a suitable desk setup) but you might need to. It sucks that there’s discrimination out there but if you do happen to be in a safer environment for discussing health issues openly it can help a lot to be upfront.

  145. Lily*

    Sorry in advance that this is long! I work at what we might call a teapot designing office that regularly receives teapot deliveries from different manufacturers to demonstrate their products. Many of these manufacturers have dedicated deliverypeople so we see the same ones repeatedly. One of them has called me “pretty girl” since I started working here, which I wasn’t sure how to address initially and just kind of brush off. One day, he asked me on a date, and I said no, but it made me pretty uncomfortable. I’m frequently alone in the office, and today he came in while no one else is here to deliver a package and picked up the xacto knife I keep near my desk for me and my colleagues to open mail with and said it was his “favorite weapon.” This really freaked me out and I’m not sure what to do. Does anyone have advice?

    1. Yuan Zai*

      Let someone in your office know. Let more than one someone in your office know. Also, let his employer know right away. Calling you “pretty girl” and asking you for a date are inappropriate actions on their own, but when you combine them with him picking up a sharp object and referring to it as a weapon….yeah, I’m freaked out for you. Please call the company that employs them; tell the receptionist that you need to speak either with this person’s manager or HR. This person should not ever be making deliveries to your office again.

      1. valentine*

        Report him to your employer. Tell the whole tale. Ask to have him removed from your route. Look in past open threads for the saga of the vanpool creep.

    2. Maya Elena*

      Well yo be safe keep your phone on you, stay in view of any cameras, and buy pepper spray.

      But in general the ones who straight up ask you on a date with no funny business and then don’t press aren’t the ones to fear. (Ultimately if you had wanted to go out with him, that would have been romantic.)

      I’d take it lightly and respond in kind. There’s a surface level of joking with someone that is just like all other meaningless interaction which lubricates social relationships and keeps us from being automatons, and in my opinion is not pathological, and helps improve relations with men and women in the office, especially across distinct social “classes” (blue vs white collar).

      There’s also a cultural component there potentially: if he’s a recent immigrant, or from a different culture, what you see might be basic politeness.

      Ultimately it’s on you to figure out what makes you feel safe and comfortable, but I think sensible precautions and benefit of the doubt are likely to resolve the issue.

      1. Maya Elena*

        I’ll also add, sometimes it’s a gut feeling (which correlates with the guy’s age and attractiveness). Someone old, or less attractive, or who is letting more or getting in my personal space, is more likely to set off alarm bells than someone who makes any kind of joke but keeps his distance, and is closer to my age.

        Anyway, good luck!

    3. Coffee Bean*

      GAG! Tell both your and his boss.

      It may not be feasible to demand to always have company, so letting your boss know and escalate to his boss to see if that Manufacture could send a new delivery person. If not, trying to work with your boss to insure that there is safety precautions in place, viable surveillance cameras, a wide counter between you and the person dropping off the packages.

    4. Rick Tq*

      If you have any recordings of his behavior save them and report this to your management and his, ASAP! In any event report him up the line, especially to any contacts you have at the other company. They should be sending a different driver in the future.

      If you don’t have anything in place you might want to request a security camera be set up at your entrance/reception area so you can document any future misbehavior.

      You might want to research restraining orders and self defense options (like pepper spray in your desk) if he escalates.

    5. Lilysparrow*

      It doesn’t matter whether he had bad intentions or not. When he picked up that blade, it read as a threat. Anybody would be freaked out.

      Tell your manager, and let them know it was intimidating. That’s not silly or an overreaction, it’s just the sensible thing to do when someone’s behavior is off.

      If your manager doesn’t immediately offer to get him put on a different route, then ask for that.

    1. Rust1783*

      I certainly hope some of the company’s clients (or whoever is paying them) react to this. The board’s statement was pretty tone deaf.

  147. Befuddled Beta*

    I’m looking for info, suggestions and advice on how to enter editing as a profession.

    The last few years I’ve worked in the food industry and I want out! A hobby of mine is being a Beta (nonprofessional editor for other writers) and I have been told I am very good at it. Since it is already something I enjoy and take seriously, I have decided to sincerely consider what others have been suggesting for a while; turning a hobby into a possible career.

    Unfortunately, I have no idea how. As I never considered editing as possible path before, I do not have any formal education that is not focalized on the culinary industry.

    Thank you in advance for any advice offered.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Hmm, this would be a tough one, because if you’re thinking beta like for fanfiction, that might not be a good reference to bring into a job (even though it can demonstrate *to you* that you enjoy copyediting and that it is the kind of thing you are good at). When you’re trying to start a completely new field with no connections or experience you can talk about, it might be easiest to start with low or no pay opportunities, unfortunately, like interning or volunteering. Do you have any contacts in your extended network – friends of friends even – who might be able to assist you?

      1. Admin of Sys*

        I know some of the per-job freelancing sites post proof reading and copy editing type jobs – that might get you some ‘professional’ experience. (note: they tend to wildly underbid though – and you’re likely to read things way less decently written than a lot of fanfic, if posts from friends who have done that are to be believed)

    2. Daisy Avalin*

      Do a search for copyediting/proofreading courses offered online, since that will help you to find out actually how good/interested in it you are. I know my mum did a correspondence course in this in the 90s (UK) and I would assume they’re available online now.

  148. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Just had an exhilarating interview for an agency I’d love to move to. Interview Thursday. Wish me luck escaping this turnover factory.

  149. Should I ask for a raise?*

    So I asked this in the letter earlier this week about raises, but it was later in the game plus it’s more appropriate for this thread. (To anyone that replies, please don’t reuse my username from that comment.)

    Basically, I don’t know if I deserve a raise/should ask for a raise during my mid-year review that is coming up.

    Some background/context: I am mid-junior level analyst at a company (consulting field). (I’m one notch up from the most entry title.) I joined too late in the year to get a formal review that summer, so I just got a formal performance review early this August, after I have been in this company for a bit over a year. My performance review was Good – I was told that I was good at the basic functions of my job, but due to “recent performance problems”, I wasn’t getting a raise. (My company only does merit raises, not col.)

    The “issues” were: 1) A project director caught a typo in the title page, got alarmed, and sent it to editing because he didn’t think I proofread my report well. (When I read that e-mail, I reviewed my entire report again in a panicked state. It so turned out that that was the ONLY typo in the report, confirmed by the editor.) and 2.) I worked on a report directly with my manager (usually I only work with project directors), and she didn’t like my PowerPoint visuals and felt she had to change all of them (she kept my written portions). My report was less than satisfactory. My personal manager who delivered the review said that she would try to ask for a raise in my mid-year review (which is now coming up) but couldn’t make any promises.

    So here is my take: I thought this was really really unfair. The reason being that up until then, I had generally gotten good feedback on my work. Clients generally like the reports I like, and a couple of times I even had clients implement my recommendations to them. But all of this went unrecognized during my performance review. I didn’t understand why I was being denied a raise of $2,000 for such small editing issues. I know this field values perfectionism, but I have other friends in the consulting industry and they also thought the raise denial was unfair. And if it means anything, I told some coworkers about it, and they were genuinely shocked, too, because they generally perceived me as a good worker.

    Fast forward to today, I’ve continued to perform well, plus train new hires because a bunch of old members quit in the summer. We have restructured a bit, and I helped with the restructure along with coworkers. I continue to do the same type of work and I still get good feedback. Like I said, my mid-year review is coming up, and I am considering asking for a raise. But should I??? I don’t know what I could say that would convince them, because my performance in the summer wasn’t good enough. If it matters, I have no longer gotten complaints about my formatting/proofreading, but that’s because I have been working with different project directors (who vary by project and client). I think I’ve gotten better in my technique due to experience, but I don’t think I was bad to start with, to be completely honest. What should I do/say?

    1. CAA*

      Yes, you can ask for a raise. You should say that you’ve really taken the previous feedback to heart and that your current project directors have given you positive feedback. You can also point out that you’ve taken on additional responsibilities like training new hires and helping with restructuring and been able to make solid contributions in those tasks.

      Do not try to rehash the validity or fairness of the previous feedback. You should only mention it in passing as a way to point out that all your current feedback is positive. No need to point out that it’s coming from different people.

  150. Normally a Lurker*

    I have a pretty specific and weird question.

    First off, I’ve had a bad back for… lots and lots of years really. And sometimes it goes out. Not often, but like, once every 18 months for 1-2 weeks?

    Anyway, the thing that makes it better is to do gentle stretches multiple times throughout the day. Each “set” takes about 5 mins, and I do them anywhere between 3-7 times a day.

    The problem? Open floor plan office AND all our conference rooms are glass. And the stretches all require laying on the floor.

    Also on our floor is the nursing mother’s room. Now, I know for a fact that, as of right now, there is one mother using the nursing room.

    However, I am terrified to ask anyone if I can use the room because I want it to be available for other women who *need* it.

    What are my options here? Do I ask HR? The one nursing mother? Forget the whole thing and stretch in the bathroom?

    HELP!!!!

    2. CAA*

      Explain to HR that you have a medical condition that requires a private place where you can do these stretches and ask if you can use the nursing room to do them and say that of course you would accommodate any nursing mothers who are also using the room. There might be a calendar where you have to book the room. If not, then talk to the other woman who you know is using it and explain what’s going on. She probably does use the room at regularly scheduled times and she probably also knows if there are other women who use it or will need to use it soon.

      Lying on the floor in the bathroom just sounds gross, even though I assume you put down a yoga mat or something like that, so I don’t think that’s a good alternative.

    3. Rust1783*

      I doubt another person will urgently need the room at the very moment you are using it. I would maybe just have a quick chat with the other nursing mother, as a courtesy. I don’t think HR needs to get involved, that’s a little much. Is there a calendar or a whiteboard on the door of the room?

    4. CheeryO*

      I think I’d just ask the nursing mother if she would be okay with it, and if she has a general schedule that she sticks to, so you can avoid using it at those times. I think most people would be understanding, especially if you make it clear that they get first dibs.

  151. Anon for this*

    I just got an interview next week for a really good job title and am now freaking out/extremely nervous. I don’t want to get my hopes up before the interview, but it’s hard. How do people keep cool under circumstances like this?

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Remember, you are using this opportunity as the chance to evaluate them also! You don’t know that they’re as great as they seem, but that power imbalance makes it worse. Maybe they’re disorganized and terrible. It’s a two way street in an interview, so you’re also in the driver’s seat.

    2. irene adler*

      First do your homework. Be well-prepared for this interview.
      Second, get some physical exercise. That helps calm both body and mind.

  152. Rust1783*

    I want to vent! I am really angry right now.

    I just started a new job a couple weeks ago and it’s GREAT. However! I had to relocate, and I haven’t gotten a paycheck in 3+ weeks since my last job ended. I was expecting a very large first paycheck with moving expenses and various reimbursements on it, since I don’t have my company credit card yet and I’ve been spending a lot of my own money registering for things, taking people to lunch, etc. I let my bank account dwindle to nothing because I am not the type of person who can manage to keep $2,000 in their checking account at all times, especially a time like this. We essentially emptied our cash reserve (yes, we even had a cash reserve!) to pay the move-in costs.

    Today I see no paycheck in my account. I email the payroll person (in a distant location) and she says “oh, we always issue a live check for the first pay period. I FedExed it to you this morning.” I check the tracking number and the FedEx won’t arrive until next Wednesday. My entire moving plan hinged on knowing I would get my first paycheck on Feb 1. I wrote numerous checks dated Feb 2 that are now going to bounce, and I have several cash-only commitments this weekend that I now have to cancel, which is going to royally screw up my plans. I will have to pay my first full month’s rent 6 days late, which I know will irritate my landlord (we have already had some unrelated issues.) Like, this is immediately causing a cascade of problems. I am incredibly irritated that they didn’t think to tell me this when I processed my direct deposit paperwork two weeks ago.

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Oh no!! Any chance there’s a close friend or family member who would front you the money? Even if there was interest, this is the kind of situation where it would make sense.

      1. valentine*

        Tell them you need a direct deposit now and don’t pay any more business expenses. Check whether three-plus weeks is later than the law allows.

    2. LCL*

      Contact all of the people you wrote post dated checks to and explain what is going on and ask them to wait. Otherwise, they or the bank may keep resubmitting them, accumulating a hefty bounced check fee each time. And talk to your bank and ask them to hold, not resubmit any NSF checks that come through until you get your deposit. This may be one of those unusual situations where a credit card advance or payday loan would help, provided you can afford the fee and that the promised check is definitely coming.

      1. Rust1783*

        I am in process with that right now. I am frankly not willing to take out a payday loan or a credit card advance. To be honest I make great money and I am mainly just angry to find myself in this situation in the first place, and irritated with the finance department of my new employer.

    3. E*

      Talk to your bank, maybe they can issue a very short term loan to cover the checks you wrote. Since you have the email and tracking number showing your paycheck is incoming, I’d think the bank would be willing to help.

      1. Rust1783*

        Unfortunately Chase bank is not willing to help with anything and I can’t spend three hours today on the phone with them, so I just reached out and embarrassed myself to all the people I had sent checks to, none of which have even arrived in the mail yet.

    4. Dealtwiththis*

      Oh my gosh! I would call the HR person and ask her to overnight another check! Tell her that you are so sorry to be difficult and wouldn’t normally ask but that this is important. That is ridiculous that she wouldn’t have overnighted it to begin with.

      1. I'm Not Phyllis*

        Yes! Three weeks is long enough to wait and they should absolutely be willing to overnight you one. They should have told all of this to you as they were setting up your payroll.

        1. Agent J*

          It’s also ridiculous to mail out a check the day it is expected, knowing the person won’t get it for a several days. That’s a really short-sighted policy.

  153. CheeseNurse*

    I finally, FINALLY got a job after getting laid off last year. Weirdly, I’m not as relieved and happy as I thought I’d be. I can’t stop worrying that something will happen in the background check or I’ll mess something up in the onboarding process and they’ll rescind the offer.

    I start on the 19th and their pay days are on the 1st and the 15th of each month. I can’t figure out if I’ll have to wait a month (March 15) to get paid or not.

    1. Grace Less*

      I’m guessing not — my company pays on the 10th and 25th, and our pay periods end on the 31st and 15th, so if you started for us on the 19th, you’d get a check on the 10th for hours worked from the 19th – 31st.

      But! You don’t have to guess. It should be covered in the employee handbook, and if it isn’t, would be a totally normal question to ask.

    2. nym*

      Like Grace Less said, it depends on pay period calculations. Where I work, we get paid every two weeks, the Friday after our time sheets are due. So if you were at my company, and starting on the 19th, you would actually put your timecard in on that Friday (feb 22) to get paid on March 1st and your first check would only have four days’ salary.

      BUT, it could be that your company calculates pay period close as the last day of the month and pays immediately, so you’d put time in for the 19th-28th and get paid for a full 9 days of work on the 1st.

  154. Bottled Pears*

    My 27 year old son applied for a job with a referral from a former co-worker who said “I’m on the hiring committee so I can for sure get you a job”. He hasn’t been working the last few months as he has been recovering from open heart surgery. During the interview, the interviewer asked multiple questions about my son’s health and whether he could handle the stress of the job. (It is a sales/marketing job, and this is what my son studied in college and the industry he has been working in for the last six years.) The day after the interview, my son was told that this company would not be hiring him. My question is, would you consider this discrimination based on the fact that my had (and therefore might continue to have) health problems? And if so, what can he do about it?
    Thank you!

    1. Anoncorporate*

      The interviewer asking him about his health sounds out of line to me. The only circumstance I could see asking about this being okay is a job that is physically strenuating, since he had heart surgery. But for sales/marketing??? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure this is a desk job. In my opinion, interviewers should take the candidate’s word for it if they say they recovered from surgery. (I’m guessing this came up because he had to explain his employement gap.)

      1. Anoncorporate*

        Sorry – to answer your question, I personally don’t know what he can do about it (Any employment law people on here????) I’m a minority, and there have been a couple of times I had reason to believe I was rejected for a job due to discrimination, but honestly there is no way to prove it, and I’m not going through the trouble of filing a lawsuit. (I’m also 27 yo.)

    2. irene adler*

      Assuming you are in USA, then the EEOC says questions about medical issues cannot be asked prior to the job offer.
      From EEOC:
      Pre-Employment Inquiries and Medical Questions & Examinations
      The ADA places restrictions on employers when it comes to asking job applicants to answer medical questions, take a medical exam, or identify a disability.
      An employer may not ask a job applicant, for example, if he or she has a disability (or about the nature of an obvious disability). An employer also may not ask a job applicant to answer medical questions or take a medical exam before making a job offer.
      An employer may ask a job applicant whether they can perform the job and how they would perform the job. The law allows an employer to condition a job offer on the applicant answering certain medical questions or successfully passing a medical exam, but only if all new employees in the same job have to answer the questions or take the exam.
      Once a person is hired and has started work, an employer generally can only ask medical questions or require a medical exam if the employer needs medical documentation to support an employee’s request for an accommodation or if the employer has reason to believe an employee would not be able to perform a job successfully or safely because of a medical condition.
      The law also requires that the employers keep all medical records and information confidential and in separate medical files.

      1. irene adler*

        Having posted this, can you report this to the local EEOC? Ask them what to do here.

        Make very sure you have the exact wording of the health questions your son was asked. Write everything down while it’s fresh in the mind.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      It is illegal to ask health questions in an interview or at a job in general. They can ask questions about whether or not a person can handle the stress, ask how they handle stress, etc., but nothing specifically medical. Your only recourse would be to involve a lawyer however, and sue for discrimination. This is assuming that your son did answer in the affirmative that he has a medical condition. Whether or not you want to pay a lawyer and go down that route is up to you though.

  155. BottleBlonde*

    Sorry if this is a silly question, but I’m in my first job after graduating so I really appreciate any guidance! How much talk about dating is acceptable/expected in the workplace? I am a private person, so my general inclination would be to not speak about dates/relationships at all until they were serious. However, I work on a very close(ly seated, at least) team so we tend to chat about our personal lives a good bit. I feel like it would be weird to just all of a sudden mention a serious romantic partner out of the blue, without ever bringing them up before. I’m the only unmarried person in my department, so I don’t have anyone here I can model my behavior after.

    A couple of additional wrinkles are that I’m the only entry-level person in my dept, so everyone I speak with is a superior (I feel like, in past jobs, it was way more common to chat about dating and personal things with peers than with my boss, for example). Also, I’m sure everyone I work with assumes I’m straight, but I’m not, so I feel that that would make it even weirder to just mention having a girlfriend out of the blue.

    Am I way overthinking this??

    1. Agent J*

      Things like this are very dependent on the culture of your company. I personally wouldn’t bring it up unless you were asked directly or it comes up naturally in conversation. Even then, you can decide how much you want to share.

      “Hey BottleBlonde, what are you doing this weekend?”
      “My girlfriend and I are going to see that new action movie.”

    2. Lily Rowan*

      I do think you’re overthinking it, but that’s fine! I don’t think you need to talk about dating at all, per se, but if you want, when someone asks how your weekend was, you could definitely say you went to a great restaurant with this woman you are dating. Or not! You can just say you went to the great restaurant.

    3. Four lights*

      It can definitely be a little tough. On the one hand, you don’t want to overshare, and being private is fine. On the other hand sharing about yourself is how people can get to know each other, and feels natural. Like you said, you also want to be careful about how you present yourself to a superior.

      I would say, share what you like, err on the side of undersharing. Remember that you don’t have to give all the details. For example, you might say that you went on a date, and go into detail about the restaurant you were at. But you don’t have to go into your thoughts on whether you like the person or not, if you went drinking afterwards, what may or may have happened at home…

      You also don’t need to keep people up to date on your dating life. It’s fine to one day say, “Oh, my girlfriend…” And as for it being a girlfriend, I wouldn’t worry too much. I don’t think you have a duty to correct any assumptions people may have.

      1. BottleBlonde*

        I really appreciate the point about not needing to share all the details. I think I would definitely feel more comfortable sharing details about a place I went on a date than details about the person I was with or how I feel about them (for example). I also think I might feel uncomfortable hearing the more-personal details from a coworker unless we also happened to be friends. I’ll definitely keep this in mind, thank you!

    4. Rust1783*

      I tend to be very private and I simply don’t volunteer information about my personal life. I know not everyone approaches things this way, but unless it is directly work related I just won’t chat about what I did this weekend or how my partner’s job is going or whatever. If I’m asked direct questions I answer them cheerfully and with an absolute minimum of detail. I have good relationships with my coworkers but I like them to be based on successes at work and a general personality fit, not chatting about what I cooked with my partner last night. When conversations like that happen, I listen and nod and I am perfectly happy to participate a little, but I’m not going to insert details about myself.

      Ironically this has turned into an issue in my job, which is client-facing (so to speak) and the clients sort of expect to develop relationships with me. I have always had some trouble navigating this and it’s been getting worse. In a weird way I really respect people (I know a few) who do my work and manage to deflect any inquiries about their personal lives without messing up their relationships with their clients. I am just not the type of person who wants to go out on a client’s boat with my partner, or talk about their alma mater as a way to develop rapport with a client who also went there, or whatever.

      I suspect there are some gender dynamics here too, as I am a guy and I often observe that my non-male-identifying coworkers are more willing and eager to share about themselves and develop this type of relationship at work. Not that guys don’t also look for camaraderie etc but I sense that women who share my approach are perceived as not being good coworkers, whereas I almost feel like people respect me more for the exact same thing.

      1. BottleBlonde*

        Honestly, people like you are the people I appreciate interacting with the most at work. Not that there’s anything wrong with sharing personal details or getting to know coworkers, but I have had certain coworkers whose personal lives I’ve known *so* much about…It’s actually made me apprehensive to talk to them because I’m afraid I’ll forget some detail and they’ll take it as a personal slight. Sorry to hear about the dynamic with your clients :/

    5. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      You’re definitely overthinking it*, don’t worry!

      No matter if you’re the most gregarious or most withdrawn person in the office, there is going to be a first time that you mention a significant other, unless you go out of your way to never mention them at all. And no one’s going to find it weird if the first time it comes up is after a little while! When the time is right and the conversational moment is appropriate, it just… gets mentioned, the same way things like having pets gets mentioned.

      For example: I first learned that one of my coworkers is married when he happened to mention that a really nice-looking tie was one his wife had picked out for him. I’d known him for probably six or eight months at that point, and it just hadn’t come up before! No biggie. Long-term partnerships that don’t involve a marriage certificate (whether that’s yet or ever) can be treated just the same.

      * The serious romantic partner part, not necessarily the non-heterosexual relationship part. That’s a whole other can o’ worms which can be a very big deal or a very little deal depending on your workplace.

      1. BottleBlonde*

        This is very reassuring! I was worried that it would seem like I was hiding something from my coworkers if I waited a little while to bring a relationship up, but I think you are right that I’m just overthinking it and they probably won’t think much of it. As for the LGBT aspect, I don’t think it will be a huge deal. I’m in a more conservative part of the country than I used to live in, but my coworkers have all shown themselves to be very openminded. I do think they’d be surprised, but not worse than that (thankfully).

        1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          In my experience, you get a ton of mileage by being very casual about it. Coming out in whatever form can be the kind of thing where the way you act about it will inform your coworkers how they should act about it; I usually mention things very casually when they come up in natural conversation, and don’t make any kind of production out of it.

          For example, with my current team, we were talking about parents opening financial accounts or taking out credit cards in their children’s names, and I said “Oh yeah, my ex went through that after her folks ran up like $10k in debt under her name. What a mess!” No biggie, and the conversation just moved from there. Very low drama.

          (But then again, I also present very butch, so it’s not exactly a dramatic reveal anyway.)

    6. Anoncorporate*

      If you’re unsure, I would always err on the side of sharing less than more. Since you’re junior to everyone, I would follow their cues more strictly than if they were just their peers, because usually the way workplaces work, the seniors set the standards for this (for better of for worse.) I also think that in many workpalces, it is normal to have 1-2 “best friends” among your team to whom you would divulge more than to others (this is the case with me.)

      However, I wouldn’t share with everyone on the team, especially not to people who you think currently have, or might have in the future, power to make significant decisions about you. (Like evaluate your performance or recommend you for a promotion.) You don’t want to risk your personal life details influencing this. Again, to use myself as an example, one of my coworkers recently became a team lead on a project. We are still largely colleagues and still have a congenial relationship, but my conversations with him are strictly in the categories of “work” and “small talk” – no heavy topics about relationships, personal drama, politics, etc.

    7. Person from the Resume*

      It’s your choice. I would suggest that you not engage in discussions about the people you’re dating or the relationship, how much you like X, even their name until it’s a serious relationship – like you would bring X to the office Christmas party.

      OTOH I would mention what a did on a date – dinner, museum, etc – just like I would mention things I on the weekend with friends or family. I might not even mention that it was romantic date.

  156. Not a Slack-er*

    I am in a role where I provide quality assurance to a number of different projects.

    My workplace uses Slack. Last year, it was just a handful of project-related channels that I had to monitor and participate in. But we’ve had a re-org and there are all these committees and initiatives and everyone has a slack channel for EVERYTHING.

    I am struggling to keep up with the volume of comments and links and “check this out” and “does anyone know” messages that stream in all day every day.

    Does anyone have any advice or strategies on how to deal with Slack?

    1. fnom*

      Honestly, I mute most channels and ignore everything that isn’t my team’s channel by default. This might vary by workplace, but at mine, if it’s important enough it gets an @everyone or @channel, or for individuals, @fnom etc. It was basically the same when we used Chatter on Salesforce. It’s not possible to keep up with everything, even if you spend all day on it, so my solution is to ignore everything not directly relevant. If it’s important enough, there’ll be an announcement that’s set off as such. If it’s not….it’s just not that important enough. ;)

    2. AudreyParker*

      Unfortunately, no advice — I never had to use it at work, we just used regular old email + instant message/chat, which was fine. I looked at it once because an online class I was taking decided to use it for help/message board, and my head nearly exploded – it seems like it’s just 20 different never ending chat rooms, not sure how anyone finds anything they’re looking for or gets actual work done. I honestly don’t know how this was determined to be an improvement on email + chat, so just validating that you are not alone in finding Slack overwhelming. I realize it’s popular, though, so am curious to see if anyone can provide an approach that mitigates the mental overload!

    3. AudreyParker*

      Having just admitted I am fairly Slack-naive: is there a way you can ask people to tag a potentially QA-related post so that you can just filter down to the relevant ones in any given channel? Or is it really up to you to actively look for things that would be remotely applicable to you?

    4. Beth Anne*

      I enjoy slack but I can totally see this as being SUPER DISTRACTING. Like you literally could spend all day reading slack notes and get nothing done. I think I’d set aside like 30 minutes in the morning and afternoon to review anything to make sure there’s no updates.

    5. JanetM*

      I have no helpful hints, but yeesh, that sounds like _The Circle_ (which I read after seeing it recommended here, I think).

  157. Restructure Hellion*

    So an internal posting has opened up that looks like a dream job. It’s a stretch, two pay bands higher (but we have one of those stupid % caps). It also doesn’t close for another month. I want to put in for it but policy is to inform my current manager and that may Not Go Well.

    All of the stress has resulted my manager and others chewing their reports out, which just sends everyone’s morale further down the sewage drain.

    Any advice?

    1. Rust1783*

      This is a situation where I would ask HR for advice, especially if you have a decent HR department. They can help you think through the best process. They have an interest in making sure well-qualified people can move up within the company and breaking down irrelevant barriers (e.g. a jerk boss) to doing so.

  158. I'm Coming Out (at work)*

    I want the world to know, got to let it show~ …sorry, couldn’t help that one, got earwormed from my own ‘name’ . Anyway!

    I’m coming out as trans at work in the near future. While our office is diverse enough to have a couple people of color and a few out LGB people, it’s in a state that leans live-and-let-live, with some significant conservative elements. I’d have come out at work sooner were it not for the last six months of bureaucratic delays, including HR deciding they needed to consult with Legal. I’ve been out in my social group for almost a year, and my medical transition has been in progress for over a year already; some of the physical effects are obvious to coworkers though I’ve been able to explain them away as other things in the interim. I just want to come out, have people use the correct name and pronouns for me, and get back to my work. HR is scheduling a department-wide meeting for me to get this over with already, and while I cannot control other people’s reactions, I’d like to make it as painless for everyone as possible.

    If a coworker came out as trans, what would be useful information to know? Is there anything you’d want to be reassured about?

    1. Four lights*

      I think I’d want a script on what to say to clients or other people in the company. “Actually Bill is known as Nancy, let me transfer you to her.” Or what would be appropriate to say if someone asks for more detail.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        That is a good one! I would want to be reassured that it’s not offensive to refer to your old name when correcting/informing people like in that example. Also that you’ll be cool when people mess up once or twice and call you the wrong name (but I don’t mean people who do it consistently as a Statement about your transness….)

        Good luck and congratulations!!

        1. valentine*

          For nonwork stuff, find an online 101 you can refer them to, so you don’t feel you have to be their personal wiki.

      2. TotesMaGoats*

        I think this would be really helpful. Hopefully most coworkers just want to know what name/pronoun you want and will happily go about their day. But what to say to people outside, that might feel like a trickier question. Even though it isn’t.

    2. merp*

      When one of my coworkers wanted to do something similar, it was as simple as you describe – in their case, an email to the department with the name they go by and their pronouns, which everyone now uses – so I just wanted to say, I’ve seen it happen and I hope this goes smoothly for you as well!

      1. Rust1783*

        Something similar happened at a previous workplace. It took a couple weeks of accidentally using the wrong name to get everything on track, but everyone was respectful and professional about it. It was kind of remarkable. Unfortunately it only takes one or two jerks to upset that apple cart – I hope OP doesn’t have to worry about it.

      2. CheeryO*

        +1 to this – I would just want to know your preferred pronouns and if you wanted to be called by a different name (and if so, if your email address has been updated – gotta think about the logistics!). Best of luck – I hope it goes well!

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      Really, I just want my colleague to feel safe enough to trust me with that information but also be understanding with us as we acclimate to new pronouns and things. I’ve had two instances of working with trans colleagues and while both environments were supportive in general one colleague was flexible and understanding that we were trying and the other got mad every time anyone used their former name and/or the incorrect pronouns. I guess I would just want my colleague to know that we support them and to please assume that I have good intentions even if I make a mistake. And maybe let people know they don’t have to make a big show of support – we had one colleague that was a little too enthusiastic and wanted to talk about it all the time which got tiring quickly.

      Good luck! I hope this goes really smoothly for you!

    4. Stop Touching Me!*

      My roommate works in tech support and had been using his “new” name for years by the time he got his pronoun marker changed and officially came out at work, so it’s a little bit of a different situation. But when he came out, he emailed his co-workers with the right pronouns to use and examples of how it might come up. (“Let me introduce you to X; he will be your tech support contact.” and “Talk to X; his speciality is Y.”) It’s a small company, but everyone was really cool about it and made sure to correct customers when they used the wrong thing. Congratulations, and good luck!

    5. JanetM*

      I’d want to know what your name is, what your pronouns are, and if there’s anything I can do to make things easier at work. I’d want to know how you wanted folks to handle people misnaming or misgendering you.

      I might also say, “I know names are important, and I’ll do my very best to get it right, but I’ve known you as Chris for several years and may stumble over Pat the first few times.” (Both names chosen for gender neutrality.)

      And I wish you all the best; I hope the meeting goes well.

      1. blink14*

        Was going to comment something similar. I have a co-worker who prefers the pronoun “they/them” but formerly went by “she/her” and still physically looks female. We have a couple of co-workers who knew them before the pronoun change and slip up. A lot of people also assume they go by the female pronouns, if they’ve had little to no in person interaction with them, and the co-workers gets irritated with that.

        It’s a hard change to make, especially if you’ve referred to someone for a long time by another name and pronoun. Definitely expect this to happen, and maybe even address in a light manner from the start so it’s not as awkward.

    6. I'm Not Phyllis*

      So sweet of you to be worried about that! But – mainly I would just want them to know that I support them. It would be great if you could tell folks the name you prefer and the pronouns, and if there’s any way they could be supportive of you.

      Congratulations and good luck on the discussion, though – I hope it goes well!

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      Do you….want a meeting? I mean, it’s great that you’re worrying about your coworkers here, but what do you need out of this? Is it just “here’s my name, my pronouns, and a couple quick scripts; my new email addy is new.name (at ) company.com, and old email will forward there. Thanks!” Because that seems like plenty for your coworkers to be able to move forward with and could be handled in an email. Are there any expectations on YOU for this meeting? Are they expecting you to entertain questions? Are you LEADING this meeting? And are you okay with that?

      Because how the higher ups handle this will set a lot of the tone around this whole thing. If it’s just a quick (and supportive) update initiated by management, then on to business as usual – that says this is normal, the company supports this, and it shouldn’t have any impact on the flow of work.

      If you’re expected to handle the messaging, assuage “fears” (what’s to fear here even????), etc, without a firm stand from management…. I don’t know. Are they going to use your coming out as a springboard to go into anti-discrimination policies or something? Because that could feel really awkward for you. Also why was months of legal consultation required here? It just feels like they’re making a HUGE deal out of this, and I worry that’s going to make it weird when it shouldn’t have to be.

      So yeah. What do YOU want or need from coming out, and if you reasonably asked for that would they give it you? Do you even want a meeting?

      Regardless. Congratulations and good luck on making the leap at work! Fingers crossed it goes exactly as you want/need.

  159. AudreyParker*

    People who have experience with temp agencies:

    I’m in a protracted search, and have finally made contact with a temp agency. Had a great and very candid conversation with the recruiter who was my initial contact, and have actually gotten 2 calls about potential work since then. Unfortunately, it’s like they take nothing I said into consideration: the first call, I seriously thought they meant to call someone else. Pay rate, start time, location, tasks, just one big nope. Second call I was just not able to return in time. I got another call yesterday that was out of my preferred commute range, and temp-to-perm, when I made it clear that my acceptable temp rate would most definitely not be an acceptable rate for a full time job. (I pretty much agreed to temp for nearly half what I would ask for as a permanent employee — I’m a mid-career-ish level, and ok with *temping* at entry level for some income while I look for something long term.)

    I have major sleep problems (that I’m continually trying to address) which mean I really can’t commit to being somewhere before 9, and if the commute is 45 minutes that would also be problematic due to how much earlier I’d have to get up – right now, 7:45 wake-up is the best I’ve been able to do for more than one day. It’s just not something I can commit to doing successfully. I’m also thinking a 52 mile round-trip commute for $20/hr in a high COL area is not sustainable for more than a week or 2, and if someone presents a gig as temp-to-perm, I should at least be considering that I would stay permanently. However, I’m worried that turning things down even for what I think are legitimate reasons will cause them to stop calling me for anything.

    I can’t do much more than I am about the wake-up time, and hopefully I can get it earlier at some point. But am I being unrealistically picky about long-term long-distance commute for low pay? And would it be terrible to accept a temp-to-perm opportunity knowing it was highly unlikely I would ever go perm? (I feel terrible just typing that, I just know I’m also often overly-responsible…)

    1. Argh!*

      Low pay comes with temp territory. They make calls based on your skills, mainly, and hope that you’ll be willing to set aside your requirements out of a desperation for the work. If you’d get $20/hour for a week, that’s $800. Unless you would be risking $800+ in unemployment pay, then it’s probably worth the commute. What would you do differently if it paid $100/hour?

      You don’t owe much to a temp agency, including loyalty. You are free to sign up with multiple agencies, or to bail on a temp-to-perm job if you find a true permanent job.

    2. Undine*

      My attitude about temp-to-perm is they are trying to have it both ways, getting you to commit without them having to. I think there’s no harm in interviewing and deciding how you feel then.

    3. blink14*

      Remember with temp jobs that you are receiving only part of what the employer is paying the temp agency, so most temp salaries are going to be lower than expected, because the temp agency takes a cut.

      Set some expectations with the temp agency recruiter you’re working with – commute time, absolute minimum wage and hours, etc. Be clear that anything outside those parameters you will not accept.

      Personally, I would only consider short term temp jobs or a long term temp job that is guaranteed to end (or be up for renewal) in under a year. Temp to perm is a hazy area and doesn’t seem to work out well very often. In my temp experience, I preferred assignments that were covering short absences (like an office manager’s vacation) or longer assignments to fill in holes (I worked for an organization for about 3 months while they downsized and were preparing to move, they offered me a long term temp position, but the move would’ve required a commute that didn’t match with the salary. They had currently been about a mile from my house).

      I worked with one temp agency and had a good experience overall. There was one assignment I left midday and refused to return – the work was so below my level of morals I couldn’t continue.

      1. AudreyParker*

        Yep, that’s what I told him: I’d accept $15/hr for a very brief job, but needed to be more like $20 if it was any period of time, and even that was not at all what I was looking for in a full-time role, so I was focusing on temp vs temp-to-perm because I’m very aware of how that industry pays/works. I told him my commute requirements, and my start time issues, though didn’t mention you couldn’t pay me enough to be a receptionist (figured I’d be priced out of that, I guess!). So yeah, ideal would be a few weeks or a few months at a time, but not pretending like I was going to sign on for a full-time entry level job long term, or drive an hour to get there.

        I’m coming from my last role being very autonomous, flexible hours, within 20 minutes of my home, and I knew that doing temping would be more restrictive, but since I wasn’t having luck with the real job search I figured it would generate some income and I could accept those terms in the short term, to a point. I just don’t want to stand my ground so much that they give up on me entirely!

    4. AudreyParker*

      I have previously gotten jobs that started out as temp-to-perm (which I saw as an advantage because I got to try them out before committing), so maybe I just mentally emphasize the -perm aspect more than I really should be, since I’ve always stayed on. Helps to hear others’ stance here!

      If it paid $100/hr that would feel like it was actually paying for gas, wear & tear on my 10 year old car, massages to cope with sitting in that much traffic every day, as well as actually covering rent! Again, if it was 2 week assignment, I’d suck it up, but temp-to-perm feels like agreeing to do it for months and possibly years, which would have me committing to operating at a deficit. I think I need to find a way to focus more on the temp- portion of the opportunity…

    5. LilySparrow*

      I haven’t temped in a while, but when I did I had pretty good experiences on the whole. If you get a permanent offer on a temp-to-perm, it is normal to renegotiate salary (since the agency won’t be getting a cut anymore). IIRC, I’ve had 30-40% increases when I went perm.

      Temp agencies try to make the best match for a position, but they are paid to put butts in seats. So if they get a job order come in, or if somebody flakes out, or if the client says “we don’t like this person, send a replacement,” they are going to keep calling everyone on the roster until they get a butt for that seat. It’s not that they didn’t read your file. They are beating the bushes and hoping someone will say yes.

      The newest people on the roster get the crappiest assignments, unless they have special skills that the agency can charge extra for. When you’ve done a few jobs and excelled, they will start catering to you more.

      Your deal-breakers are your deal-breakers, but if you are never available they are going to put you further down the list to get called, so you’re going to keep getting offered ever-crappier assignments, or if they don’t have enough listings to go around you will get passed over. On the other hand, if you accept a job and don’t show up on time, that’s worse.

      In your position, I’d be flexible on the commute but transparent about the time issue. “That is a 50-mile commute, and I can’t guarantee to be there by [start time]. But I can be there by [reasonable time] and stay late, if that would work.”

      Also, taking a temp-to-perm is not the same thing as accepting a permanent offer. You always have the option to request a different assignment if it’s not sustainable for you long-term. And you don’t know if they are going to offer it to you permanently, anyhow. Again, just be transparent: “I’m not looking to go permanent, but I can be there if you need somebody.”

      The more flexible you can be, the more valuable you will be. Honestly, as long as you are competent, present professionally, and don’t do flaky things like go out for lunch and disappear, you will get better assignments quickly.

  160. Parenthetically*

    So I was looking through glassdoor reviews for one of the places where my husband is applying. The company had 3.9 stars when I first looked. Then I “signed in” to see if I could access any more info… and suddenly the company had 1.8 stars?!?! What the heck!?

    1. Sienna*

      That’s super odd. I hope it’s more of a bug rather than built-by-design to try to entice others to sign up.

    2. Hmmm*

      Look at how many comments there are and what recent ratings say. For example, if there were only 3 reviews beforehand but then 1 negative review came in then it would tank the ratings. Also, see if there is a cluster of negative reviews that came in. There may have been a layoff and now whole departments are coming in to vent.

      I also always pay attention to which department is writing in. I don’t necessarily care what Accountants have to say about their manager when I am in IT. The exception is if it is part of a larger cultural issue within the org. If red flags are popping up then I make sure to keep my eyes peeled in the interview process for indications they are reality.

  161. Sienna*

    Any other U.S. Federal contractors out there? Sometimes I really feel like I’m caught between a rock and hard place because working at a federal agency as a contractor can put you in some crazy grey areas when it comes to workplace problems and it’s like a landmine to manage. The worse example I can think of was one contract where I was dealing with sexual harassment – the agency doesn’t want to touch and told me to go to my company to sort it out. But the company, being a tiny federal contractor, was all about bending towards the government civilian’s will and pretty much told me to just put up with it. I ended up quitting.

    Now, on my current contract I’m dealing with a government civilian that has a huge disdain for contractors and is outright taking it out on me and the other contractors. There’s no satisfying him at all. Everything is wrong, you are never right. I’ve tried heavily documenting every contradiction, I’ve even required formal sign off from him for certain actions. And a few times where he’d outright lie about something I didn’t do, I was right on hand with his formal sign off to prove that yes, I did complete the action and HE was the one to sign off on it. It was no use, he’d still deny it and yell at me to do it over again. I’ve brought it up to my company program manager, who has done nothing to help or run interference. I’ve brought it up to the person above the government civilian, but that just made him even more angry with me and lead to him doubling down on his efforts. The other contractors just put up with it and aren’t willing to stand up as a group, not that I think it would actually do any good because unfortunately, there is this air of “contractor vs civilian” and time and time again, no matter what, the civilian’s word is trusted over the contractor despite evidence that could prove otherwise.

    Has anyone ever experienced this same dynamic? How did you navigate it?

  162. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    It’s been a month and boss likes my work. As does under-boss.

    There’s also been some building office name changes that affect policy so that’s going to be part of my work later. But weird story: Under-boss told me to be the Teapot A rep and to talk to Coworkers about it. I talk to Coworkers who say the system changed so a Teapot A rep is no longer needed. But they give me reading material. Then I email Under-boss and boss telling them that and asking for clarification. Then boss tells me I’m doing fine and that roles are a bit ‘flexible’ at the moment.

    It’s a great company, but it was weird bc basically, I was told I’d be one thing, went to folks, and was told they didn’t need one? I think it’s part of the restructuring. How odd.

  163. Seeking Second Childhood*

    I’ve mentioned that my group was moved to another part of the building. Our group leader had her office moved as well – bigger office, but only so they could squeeze in a large percentage of our archive. Logically I knew that The Powers That Be had decided that six of our cabinets contained material that was no longer required. Logically I knew that part of our archive was being deaccessioned & discarded.

    Logic has nothing to do with my reaction at seeing several recycling bins full of materials I helped create over 20 years. I feel very very strange…

    1. Rust1783*

      I know that feeling! I have honestly developed a “lol nothing matters” approach to paper filing over the past ~5 years, for essentially this same reason.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I keep trying to tell myself that the bin is just bulging with monkeys that are NOT MINE any more… but I ran that circus for a long time.

  164. Stop Touching Me!*

    One of my co-workers is very touch-y and I want her to stop!
    It has been established that I’m two years older than her oldest daughter, who lives out of state and who my co-worker misses terribly. She seems to have transferred that familiar affection to me and another co-worker: she touches our arms when she talks, she physically moves me out of the way when I’m in the hall, she gets very far into my personal space (mock-body-checking me!!), and she calls me her “good girl”. We’re a pretty casual office, but I am a 30 year old professional adult and I find this lady’s treatment of me like I’m her dear child to be very unprofessional and annoying. I don’t dislike her but I do dislike what she’s doing. Any advice? Has anyone else been there with coworkers?

    1. Hope*

      You’re probably going to have to just outright tell her that you don’t want to be touched, and that you would rather she not call you that. Just a simple “hey, could you not call me ‘your good girl?’ It feels weird/unprofessional/etc.” should hopefully be enough. If she balks, maybe point out that you don’t want your other coworkers to see you as less than a professional colleague. The thing that might also help in this situation is that you and the other coworker could probably band together on this to confront her about it.

      1. valentine*

        I don’t know that the daughter is dear. Maybe she hates it, too, and is basking in temporary freedom. All of this is so gross, I want to back away and seal the room.

        Tell her not to touch you or to call you pet names. Be ready to respond to excuses about your age and her daughter and whatever other reason she insists on not restraining herself. The candy-dish OP is a great example of setting a boundary and knocking back the onslaught of resistance. Practice a reflex like pinwheeling the arm she’s wanting to touch and moving back toward her if she’s grabbing you from behind to move you. If you need to get ahead of the message, tell your supervisor.

    2. irene adler*

      Can you simply ask her to “please” refrain from touching you? Or are you afraid she will get bent out of shape over such a request?
      Or to take it farther, ask her to kindly keep her interactions with you on a professional level -as you are doing towards her. This might cause some hurt feelings, but casual or not, this is a work place. If she is not clear as to what you mean, then explain: You do not wish to be touched; stop the “good girl” reference as well. IF she asks why, then explain that it is demeaning to you. Doesn’t matter if it’s coming from a “place of love”.

      Personally, I do not like to be touched. Made that clear the first time a co-worker hugged me. “I understand you are wanting to congratulate me, but please, I prefer not to be touched. Thank you.”
      No issues and no hard feelings.

      I did have an incident with a co-worker. Rather nutty exchange really. Without boring you with details, she got weepy because she “thought we were friends- SISTERS, in fact! You are not treating me very sisterly.” After a few days, she got over things.

    3. Stop Touching Me!*

      You’re both right. This makes me feel better about saying something to her about it! I’m always worried about making things weird, but really, I wouldn’t be the one responsible for the weirdness. Thanks for the advice!

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I came from a very touchy family… shoulder rubs, hugs, etc. One niece doesn’t like it. My elderly mother learned not to hug her granddaughter unless the granddaughter initiated it — so habits *can* be broken.
        And that *IS* within a family environment. Good luck, and do let us know what language works.

      2. Friday afternoon fever*

        You need to tell her because there is literally no way she will know unless you do.

    4. Friday afternoon fever*

      Just tell her.
      1st time- “Sorry, I actually don’t like being touched!” and withdraw your body part. Smiling, cheerful, direct. Move the convo on immediately to indicate this is Not a Big Deal and your work relationship is still good. Because it might be a really big deal in your head, since things tend to build up over time with each incident (and I get it! I would hate it!!) but you can’t be too annoyed with her if you haven’t said anything directly.

      2nd-“I don’t like being touched, could you stop___?”

      3- “Stop touching me.”
      4- “I have asked you repeatedly to stop touching me. What is the issue?” (This is rhetorical because there is no valid reply.)
      5- escalate.

    5. Quandong*

      I have a colleague who touches people on their upper arms or shoulders as part of his greetings, and I don’t like people touching me.

      I already knew he was a reasonable person. What worked for me was privately telling him that I don’t like being touched, and that I have a very large personal space bubble, and a strong startle reflex. I asked him to remember this, and explained that’s why I may flinch away from him if I think he’s going to touch me.

      So far this has been successful. I hope other readers have suggestions for how to carve out your personal space, as well as how to address the inappropriate way your co-worker is relating to you.

  165. SophieChotek*

    Do you thank your boss for your bonus? If so, how?
    Despite poor sales in my company and despite my weird company, boss still gave us a bonus anyway!

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      No. You don’t need to do anything but keep showing up and giving 100% to your job when you’re on the clock.

      Don’t fall into the trap of thinking compensation is a gift, you earned it!

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      You just say thank you! Say you appreciate that the your work is valued and that your boss made sure you were rewarded. Gifts or things like that would not be appropriate.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Simple — I say “Thank you.” If it’s larger than typical, I’ve been known to say it’s good to know that my work is appreciated.

    4. SophieChotek*

      Thanks all. It’s not tons, but it’s more than $100 and unexpected since i know our company actually is performing under goals….

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Keep in mind goals are nice but usually very high and not always attainable! So unless you’re losing business and grinding to a stop at times you usually wouldn’t, goals are not the way you track a company’s worth and earnings.

        Unless you’re in accounting or it’s a Non Profit, don’t trust bosses who tell you sales are below a goal and are “low” or ‘bad’, they’re feeding you hot air.

    5. Mediamaven*

      You should absolutely thank them for a bonus. It has nothing to do with whether it was earned or expected, it’s just the right thing to do. Trust me, not saying thank you does not make someone want to give you anything. Just say it. It’s still generous and it’s their way of saying thank you to you – so you can say it back!

  166. KR*

    Had a really good review and I think I’m reasonably caught up on my work an a it makes me really happy.

    1. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Good for you! I’m on break from a deadline and here’s hoping when I deliver it’ll make ME really happy!

  167. Free Meerkats*

    The office cat was giving me serious side-eye yesterday. When I checked, I discovered he could see about a quarter size area of the bottom of his kibble bowl, so it was So. Empty! And how was he going to survive with an empty kibble bowl.

    I topped it off and now he’s back to ignoring me. With occasional wanders through the office loudly complaining that his favorite person is out of the office for a while for surgery.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I miss my office cats. One used to attack the back of my chair while on the phone to watch me struggle to keep my composure! Then would nap in my inbox by the window after creating the chaos.

      Kibble must be topped off at all times! It’s your one job, hooman!

      1. Free Meerkats*

        We’ve sort of settled on Buddy. He’s the last remaining from a litter of 3 that was born under our office trailer. It’s difficult for me to get a good photo of him, I’m the Evil Human who trapped him and took him in to be neutered. So I am only tolerated when he wants food.

        Here’s a slightly fuzzy picture taken from my car. He runs under the trailer as soon as I get out. https://www.instagram.com/p/BtWmKIEHgI3

  168. Not the Bumper Sticker Police*

    One of my reports came in to complain about a car parked in our lot that had a political bumper sticker on it. It is a private car, not a company car. She claims the sticker upsets her when she walks by the owner’s car on her way into the building. I told her to park somewhere else. She said I should make that person remove the sticker. I told her no, especially since it may not even be someone in our company as we share a lot.
    But really? What does she want me to do? Tell people they can’t have bumper stickers on their personal cars?

    1. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

      I struggle with sensitive staff too. For political stuff I am clear that if it’s in the office I can speak to the staff member but bumper stickers, rally attendance, facebook posts, etc. I am not going to police their politics.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      OMFG you’re a saint. I would laugh a person out of my office for that nonsense.

      That person must be related to the psychopath who complained the LW had sanitary napkins in her car!!!!

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      She’d clutch her pearls if she saw some of what I walk past. Left wing, right wing, and an…er… anatomical trailer hitch cover on a particular pickup truck.

      1. Not the Bumper Sticker Police*

        She is one of those people who feels that anything that upsets them is immediately A Cause. I’d call it pseudo-woke and hypersensitivity. Here are the Top Five crazy things she’s brought to me as “problems” that “upset her” since her hire six months ago:
        1. Someone used spray on deodorant in the bathroom. She was upset because that wasn’t “very green.”
        2. During a fire drill, one of our employees who wears a religious head covering had said religion head covering blow off in the high winds. This gentleman was not upset by any means; things like this happen. My report was, though. She wrote me an email stating we should not have fire drills on windy days because of this incident and that we were not being inclusive of the man because of the wind.
        3. There should not be diet soda in the soda machine because it causes cancer.
        4. She was upset when an email went around from Safety about high heels. She felt that women should be allowed to wear whatever they want. I reminded her it was applicable only to people in the shop who have to wear safety shoes. She doubled down that it was sexist.
        5. She emailed the entire department complaining that no one bought her gift when she adopted a puppy.

        Yeah, I’m building a case. She’s just too much and does terrible work. She also hates to be coached. So. She needs to go.

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          Oh dear… I think the only thing to do is continue documenting here in the Open Friday’s so we can follow along.

          Sorry you have ‘one of those’ :|

        2. Rick Tq*

          I’d release her now, she seems to expect the entire world to be organized for her comfort.

          If she is a substandard performer you can just say the job/company/environment isn’t a good fit.

        4. ..Kat..*

          Well, high heels are a bad idea safety wise for men and women, so I don’t get how this is sexist…

  169. Chocolate Teapot*

    Slightly annoyed this week that the training I have been promised, which is due to start in a couple of weeks is not going ahead because the course is full. Apparently I should be able to get on the course in September, but it is annoying. Thankfully, it is not essential training, just a nice-to-have certificate.

    In other news, we have moved to nice new desks with more natural daylight. Sadly Fishwife is still in the vicinity, despite our attempts to block the sound with a row of cabinets.

  170. A bit of a saga*

    Decision time: I have a job offer and need to make up my mind. My current workplace is not a good environment – a lot of negativity, lack of morale etc. I basically don’t like being there and my favourite days are the ones where I can work from home. We are, however, in the midst of defining a new strategy which may, or may not, improve things. We are membership-based so said membership is driving the process which means it’s difficult to get a real sense of where we’ll end. On the plus side I do get a very fair deal in terms of pay, working hours, etc. My offer is from a company I know well – it seems like a much more positive work environment, but also with more demands, and the pay is less. Flexibility would be a bit more than what I have now but probably a few more hours too . I know I ought to leave my current position before I go completely crazy but I can’t help but feel it might be stupid to leave when changes are supposedly on the way. I also am not keen to lose income. On the other hand, the other company is a good one, and I could probably make a nice career there (and compensate my immediate loss of income along the way) so even if my current job situation does improve, it seems like an overall better place to land. Thoughts?

    1. Havarti*

      My concern with the offer is the more demands with less pay part. That’s not a selling point. Is the salary of the offered position competitive at all? How long would it take you to be compensated for the lost income? A year or two? More? You could wait to see how things shake out at your current job and use the time to look for something else. Maybe save up some money. Unless you really want to work at this other company. I mean, you can take the chance if you really want to but think about what you’d do next if the flexible hours and positive work environment aren’t enough to counterbalance the increased workload and lower pay.

    2. Hmmm*

      Are you excited about the offer? What if the pay never catches up to what you were making before? Would that change your decision? I am not a fan of sticking out companies in case they get better. However, assuming you can grind your teeth at the current company a bit longer then you should be going to a position and place that excites you. Don’t go to a job just to escape your current one. You may be overlooking some red flags because the grass seems greener. Take a true look at the offer and how you feel about it.

  171. Diluted_TortoiseShell*

    So managers help me get eyes on this situation my feelings may be too raw on it.

    Situation – staff member has worked while in the ER, in and out of the hospital, and on surgery waiting list for the past two weeks. The staffer put in a lot of hours leading up to their hospitalization. They came in, on heavy medication, to complete something only they could do but they were a bit rude and replied to someone who was confused with an exasperated “People need to read the minutes.” To be fair – it was all clearly outlined in the minutes BUT this isn’t the first time this month the staffer has complained about people not keeping up on the minutes during this important all hands on deck project.

    Another staffer came to me crying about this so I called up the sick staff member and told her she needed to be cognizant of how she comes across and that this pattern of behavior can’t continue. It seemed to go well, she was a bit resistant, and mentioned that she honestly doesn’t remember the exchange with all the medication she is on. I thought that was that but she called me back crying and stating she was being treated unfairly. We discussed some more and came to what I thought was a fair resolution – to ask staff if they spoke to her about minor items like this. Later I heard staff complaining about how the staffer was treated yesterday and honestly I was pretty mad to find out she must be complaining about me since I had already made concessions for the staffer by agreeing to step away from minor personality items. I emailed her that she has got to be better about constructive criticism – she’s worked for us for 5 years but this is the second time in a year she pushed back on this type of feedback as unfair. The first time it was true that it actually was a misunderstanding and she technically didn’t do anything wrong but she still came across brusquely about the whole thing.

    Other than this she is a great worker. Honestly one of the best. She has unique technical skills that are hard to recruit and usually is very kind and professional. She just comes across brusquely from time to time and the rest of our staff are very sensitive about it.

    What else should I do to support this employer and help her improve?

    1. Bibliovore*

      Pain makes me mean. Sick employee is stressing to complete a project on deadline. Pain causes anxiety. Deadlines cause anxiety. Yes, employee took constructive criticism the wrong way but how about a little sympathy and support to your “high performer”. How can you as a supervisor help them do the things “only they can do” and relieve some pressure. In the midst of being in the middle of illness, stress, deadlines, if I was called in for my “brusque” manner, I would be resentful and angry. You stated that the first incident actually wasn’t their fault. Was there an apology? Can you help them with a script and coach with some language in this situations. “usually is very kind and professional”

    2. Undine*

      Why is this employee working at all right now? From the ER? Or on heavy medication? Why aren’t they on short-term disability or FMLA? You want them to put their health at risk and be pleasant at the same time?

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        ^^^THIS^^^
        If this one employee has no backup, you as the manager have a task on your to-do list.
        What would you do if this employee were hit by a truck or had a heart attack? I’ve lost co-workers to both those situations over the years – one of them didn’t have a backup plan and the business lost income over many weeks while her co-workers rebuilt her procedures and IT figured out all the authorizations only she had had.

        On a less drastic note, errors happen on medication & under stress. I have memory gaps around the time when I had pneumonia and the time when my mother had her stroke. I also have email trail of bad decisions — I should not have been allowed to log in either time.

    3. Temperance*

      Your employee is making great personal sacrifices to get the job done, and is getting bothered by colleagues about issues that they should research themselves. I actually don’t think she did anything wrong this time; she’s busting her butt while seriously ill, and people are wasting her time with stupid questions.

      1. froodle*

        That they could answer by reading g the dang minutes, no less!!

        and the ill staffer does all this and then gets called (while in hospital/off work for treatment, it sounds like?) to have their manager be like “you have to be nicer to time wasters buffoonering it up at you while you try to keep working during an illness requiring hospitalization”?

        Hmm. HMM.

    4. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I think your first mistake was to step in the middle of this. Honestly there are a lot of low level interpersonal things that have been brought to me as a manager and I’ve pushed it back to the individuals to sort out. I’m not a den mother if you have a beef with another employee, I expect you to use your words with them and work it out. Only returning to me if things get worse or don’t get resolved.

      In your situation I probably would have talked to the snapee and asked if they had read the minutes before asking about it. I’d have asked if they thought the other person might just be going through some things that are making them a little short. And ask if they thought they would be a tad grumpy in the same situation.

      9/10 just getting the other person to see the different point of view will help.

      Then I would have checked in with the snapper to see how they were doing. Sounds like they are having a rough go of things and could have very easily told you to screw whatever it was they were working on because they were sick. You need to figure out how to stop the single source on the tasks.

      Lastly, I’m going to do the same thing to you that I suggested you do. Think about this employee. She’s sick, she’s dealing with stupid people who can’t read readily available information, and now for the second time in a year you are coming down on her. The first time it wasn’t even warranted. Now, how receptive would you be to feedback in this moment? You need to pick your battles (hint… this wasn’t one of them) and pick the times that you choose to address them. You never email an employee with coaching like this, it’s something that is done in person or at the very least over the phone if you or they are remote. Seriously, read the first paragraph description of this employee’s situation and tell me again how you think it’s a good idea to reprimand them because someone got their feelings hurt.

      Sorry if this seems harsh… but based on what I read I think you blew it.

    5. Rusty Shackelford*

      What should you do to help her improve? You mean help her health improve, I assume, since you’re asking her to not only work, but to be SUPER PLEASANT ABOUT IT, while she’s in the ER, waiting for surgery, dealing with severe pain, and on medication? And you admit that she hadn’t actually done anything wrong the last time you talked to her about NOT BEING SUPER PLEASANT, but you still think this is a pattern?

      I have some suggestions. I don’t think you want them.

    6. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Sorry I think you are completely in the wrong and you sound like your behavior as a manager is colored by personal dislike of this employee.

      She shouldn’t be working at all while dealing with a major medical issue first off.

      Second off, if she did come into work ill and on medication to complete a single task, she should be allowed to do that without disruption and to leave as soon as possible. Not to be badgered by questions with answers her coworkers can find themselves.

      Maybe her personality is a bit brusque but right now doesn’t seem like the time to address that.

      You always need to alter your workflow/overlap practices so that you as a manager aren’t relying on sick employees to do the work. Maybe you have to fill in the gap. Maybe your team is too small. Maybe you need cross training in tasks/projects.

    7. blink14*

      Support her by cutting back on her coming in before her surgery. If she is the one insisting that she needs to come in, set a small number of hours she’s allowed in the office and then gently shoo her home. If your office requires her to be in, took a really close look at what “only she can do” and see what things can really be done by someone else and move it to them in the meantime.

      As someone else said, pain can make a person mean and also very tired. I’m sure this person is beyond stressed with their health situation and the impending surgery. I had a serious surgery that I knew was coming for about 6 months, but was only given 4-5 days notice of the actual date. Between the anxiety and constant pain and discomfort, and serious lack of sleep, I was miserable and snappy.

      Any kind of heavy medication will alter someone’s personality and set them on edge. I cried every day for two months after my surgery, which was a side effect of the medications I was on. Again, this person should not have been at work at all if on such a high dose of meds.

      Give this woman a break. Get your team together and figure out a way through it with as little assistance from her as possible, and explain that your employee is going through a highly stressful time and if she seems rude or annoyed, to keep that in mind. Frankly, your other employer should already be aware of this. She doesn’t need to “improve”, she needs support right now. If this kind of attitude is going on when she returns to work (provided she’s healed well and not on tons of medication), that is the time to address it.

    8. animaniactoo*

      “To be fair – it was all clearly outlined in the minutes”

      Tell people that if it was in the minutes and they didn’t read it and they’re bothering someone who is sick and on pain meds that they should EXPECT to get a brusque answer.

      At other times, it would be borderline unreasonable for her not to more calmly enforce the message about reading the minutes. The past issue may have pulled the blinders over your eyes here that THIS is the time when she’s not only completely reasonable to be a lot more blunt about it, but it may be warranted at other points too if they’re consistently not reading the minutes.

      So… honestly, you need to support her not by telling people to talk to her about minor stuff – but by shutting down complaints because she was “mean” and “hurt their feelings” (essentially) by not being kind about it on the 400th iteration. “Well, how many times should she have to be disrupted to answer a question because you and others didn’t read the minutes?”

      You can tell her that you’re sorry that you didn’t support her in this instance when she is right, and that you’ll talk more when she’s out of surgery and things are more headed back to normal. And then you can have a conversation about how her occasional brusqueness at other times played into you seeing this as her issue rather than the other staffer’s issue.

    9. AvonLady Barksdale*

      She shouldn’t be working at all right now. If there are things only she can do, she needs to be given time and space. If she’s exasperated or brusque, then seriously, let it go. Your email about her getting better about constructive criticism… this is not the time. Really. I am all about personal responsibility and not treating people with kid gloves, but for real, you should be encouraging this woman to rest and relax and make herself better, not picking at her for being annoyed at something or for getting overly emotional right now.

      If this is an ongoing issue, it can be addressed when she’s healthy. But really, for this time frame, unless she’s walking up to co-workers and abusing them, she needs a big fat pass. And it doesn’t sound one bit like she was abusive. Everyone gets annoyed, and it sounds like she had good reason to be annoyed. Why create minutes if no one reads them?

    10. WellRed*

      Why is she working? Why are you letting someone on heavy medication work? Why are you calling a sick employee to chastise them (I realize you may have been gentler) about such a minor thing? Why didn’t you tell the crier (seriously?! what’s up with the crying) to grow the eff up?
      I didn’t realize reading minutes was a thing people actually do in a workplace.

    11. LCL*

      Tell the rest of your staff to be less effin’ sensitive. Listen when they complain, that’s part of your responsibility as a manager but you shouldn’t pass on every personality based complaint.
      The climate of your workplace as described in your post sounds really really intrusive and invasive and way too close. It’s in your third paragraph- ‘so I called up the sick staffer and told her she had to be cognizant etc.’ Why did you think it was necessary to call someone who by their own admission was sick and drugged up and working long hours while being in and out of the ER and going thru the stress of trying to schedule a surgery, to lecture her about being nicer so as to not hurt someone’s feelings? Even assuming she was over the top rude and needed to be spoken to, why couldn’t this have waited until she came back to work? And then, sick staffer calls you back to cry about you hurting her feelings! Sick staffer gets a pass on this one given the circumstances, but it all points to me to an office where everyone is all up in everybody’s business.

      Do you have the power to change this climate? You can start by asking an employee complaining about another employee being brusque (which is usually gendered as AF but I’m not going there with this one) to explain why that is a bad thing, and what specifically they object to. And you are allowed to tell your subordinates ‘You don’t have to like anyone or their mannerisms, just work with them.’

    12. Kathenus*

      I’m on team ‘she shouldn’t be working at all’ right now. You can support her by making sure that she has all available resources – sick time, short term disability, FMLA – to help her deal with her health issues. You can take work completely off of her plate and mind so she doesn’t have to think, worry, or stress about it at all while she’s getting healthy. That’s the support she needs. Please work at seeing it through the lens of supporting your employee’s health as the first priority, and work impacts being things that you and the team take on to cover so that she can focus on herself right now.

    13. Quandong*

      Honestly, I think you have made an error of judgement to follow up on other worker’s complaints about the sick staff member right now.

      The sick worker is fantastic at her job, and this is NOT the moment to address her manner that ‘comes across brusquely from time to time.’

      It sounds to me as though you have the good fortune to have not been extremely ill, spending time in the ER, or waiting for surgery and on very strong painkillers. Your worker is extraordinary and in her position I would not be at work at all.

      When I was in a similar position as your great worker, had I received correction from my manager such as what you describe, I’d be very angry. Having my choice of language or my manner raised as a problem would lessen my feelings of goodwill towards the workplace, and make me feel completely unappreciated.

      I actually can’t believe your great worker is still coming to work in her situation. I also can’t believe you chose to bring this topic up with her at such an inopportune time.

      What can you do to support your great worker?
      Find out what you can do to increase her leave, and make sure she is aware of her entitlements. Encourage her to take as much time as she needs to recover and recuperate. Find out what accommodations you can make for an easy return to work after her surgery (including different furniture, a room where she can rest or undertake PT exercises etc). More broadly, find ways to handle her absence from work in future so she isn’t under pressure to work when she is unwell and in pain.

      You should also read up on how to manage different communication styles in the workplace. This is a topic that comes up a lot and there should be many posts on AAM about it. I also hope you might consider whether you have a personal bias that is coming into play with regard to the great worker.

      1. Quandong*

        In addition – I think you should unreservedly apologize for how you have handled this situation, without intruding further on your great worker. Tell the complaining workers that things will change in relation to how you handle their petty complaints, and discourage them from ganging up on the great coworker.

        Also, you should very seriously interrogate your choice to call her about this minor issue while she’s literally waiting for surgery and in distress. This worker would be well within her rights to complain about how you have treated her. I’m just flabbergasted that you thought that was a wise option.

    14. Is my boss here?*

      The “heavy medication” stuck out to me. A notable number of our clients are off work on medical leave and when they call, sometimes they’re hyper as all get out and motormouth instead of listening to you, or they’re flaky, can’t remember what you say and ask the same questions over and over, or are testy and hard to help. They can be very emotional or totally out of it. I always take a step back and remember that they could be taking some kind of medicine that could be affecting their behavior.

    15. Piano Girl*

      Thirty years ago, I got pregnant around Christmas. I was working for an accounting firm at the time, so I dealt with morning sickness through all of tax season. My husband was in school, my parents were living in another country, and my brother-in-law was living with us while going through a divorce. I didn’t miss a day of work until April 16th. When I received my review that year, I was told that I was “moody under pressure”. I laugh about it now – no kidding! I sure would’ve been nice to have my supervisor have my back.

    16. Ann O.*

      But people should be keeping up on minutes when they know the project is important and a key player is dealing with serious health issues!

      This is so bizarre to me. Your report has a strong enough work ethic that she came in WHILE MEDICATED to make sure the project gets done–and she’s valuable enough that she NEEDS to come in while medicated in and out of the hospital–and you actually called her up to complain about her attitude? If there is ever a time rudeness is justified, it is a situation like this.

      You are treating her unfairly and inappropriately. You absolutely should apologize to her. You also should think long and hard about whether the type of criticism in which you’re engaging is actually constructive. It certainly isn’t while she’s dealing with serious health issues. Cut her some slack for being short and snappy and encourage her co-workers to cut her some slack. If brusqueness continues and is an actual, genuine issue after she’s well, you can address it then. (but please do really consider whether it’s an issue–it’s not reasonable to expect anyone to be Mary Poppins all the time)

  172. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    I’m trying to collect upon an invoice from SEPTEMBER from a huge international company…their fax is on perma busy signal. Letters to into the abyss. And they have an oddly easy to navigate phone tree but the AP line has been ringing without answer for 10 minutes now.

    I frigging loath this nonsense and thankfully it’s small beans and we’re not cash hungry. I’m sick of mega corps stealing from small businesses though. My rage is on high right now. Yeah…I’m letting it ring.

    I’ve already locked these buttfaces from ever ordering again. You only get one freebie.

    I had a buyer freak out on me earlier. Their account is forever on freeze because they didn’t pay us a couple grand five years ago. I told them they need a credit card and will never get terms again “BUT I’M JUST EMPLOYED HERE!” Cool story…I’m not holding you personally responsible (and I can’t anyways), I’m just saying stop trying to put in POs, I’ll reject everything you send over. I don’t have to sell to you on credit terms. Argh…

    Ring time. 13.5 minutes.

    1. Havarti*

      Man, that sucks. Do you have the name of someone who isn’t in AP and try contacting them? Like for whom the order was placed? I’m not above pitting the accounting people against the users/consumers within the company if it’ll get the invoice paid.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        THE BUYER IS WORTHLESS. I want to bite her head off. I’ve already reached out and she told me she has nothing to do with it and just has the generic AP email. Which is unanswered, shocking…

        I hung up at 20 minutes only because my boss walked in to hand me things and I may have said “I wanna flush them all down the toilet, these stinkers are floaters.” grumble grumble.

        I just lock things quickly so then the next buyer may be able to help. Sadly they haven’t re-ordered. I have a perma short leash on any account with these setups.

        1. Havarti*

          Yuck. So your boss doesn’t care? Mine once threaten to lawyer up when a client decided not to pay. Changed their tune pretty darn quick.

          1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

            It’s B2B, you can’t collect from a business with a lawyer.

            He cares but we only have so much power with commercial debt.

    2. London Calling*

      Fax?? I reckon that tells you all you need to know about this shower. This sounds like the sort of AP department I whipped into shape smartish two years ago. Threatening letter, letter before action, court. Ruin their credit rating – if it isn’t already. which it sounds like it might be if they don’t respond to letters and calls.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        I got schooled in collection law and suing any business is fruitless. They have to care. Most are big enough that their credit is HORRID but people extend them terms anyways.

        I’ve stopped using outside collection until the very end and then 9 out of 10 sent to the agent is written off.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      “And I’m employed here, and your employer has a history of not paying my employer, which is why I can’t give you terms on their behalf.”

      That buyer deserves a smackdown.

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’m on the other side…. I have an outside vendor whose work I approved last summer and whose invoice still hasn’t been paid. The outside vendor is easier to reach than my own “internal” purchasing department, which was “centralized for efficiency” to another country that does not speak the primary language of my employer.
      I’m embarassed to send another job to them until this gets paid!

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Just to clarify – purchasing was centralized NOT outsourced. We do have a facility in that country that makes a lot of purchases. But this services PO is getting overlooked because there’s no factory asking for a part!

      2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        I’m not shocked to hear it! I’ve heard it a ton from big companies. One can only use the same ticket system the vendors use. It drives me nuts.

        I feel bad when the buyers are truly in the middle. Most are like you and very kind but still unable to push payment by any means. At least you understand if they deny a new request due to payment issues.

        I had one fantastic buyer rip into their accounting department after we had to lock the account.

      3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        The burning shame I’ve been feeling for the past year. I approved work to be done, I approved several invoices for the company who did the work. I transitioned into a new role and when I got the approval request I sent it to the new people to approve it… It’s been a year and I just this week got a reminder and asked to approve the same invoice I’ve handed off multiple times in the past year.

        OMG just pay the invoice… if I was anywhere near that approval matrix I would do it. I thought about doing it even though I’m not in that approval matrix just to get it paid. I’ve told the new people… “For the love of all that is holy just approve this!!”

        I’m sure I’ll see it again in 6 months :(

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Thank you for confirming why I’ll never live to see the day I work for big-business accounting. My face would melt off.

          I want to thank EVERY SINGLE procurement agent/buyer who cares, you are loved and respected. Thank you for not brushing off vendors and stashing it in the “not my problem” pile.

          Thankfully it’s very few and far between that people take more than 6 months to get to the bottom of things for us. Granted I’m a quick trigger, I’ll lock the thing and just cut our losses in the end. We are dealing with hundreds of dollars and not tens of thousands, thank God!

          I had one nightmare where I got trapped in the CC vortex. The buyer being all “I RECEIVED IT!” and the AP people being all “Mkay, so mark it in the system.” and the buyer being all “It won’t let me…I don’t know what to do…” Thank God, that’s not typical for buyers, just that one who wasn’t able to properly navigate their system. I have seen their vendor portal, it’s trash, so I’m sure their internal system is just as gloriously trash.

        2. animaniactoo*

          Any shot you can walk over there and say “I’m not moving until you approve payment on this invoice”? Or similarly escalate to make clear that it is NOT acceptable that they are burning a vendor who did good service for the company?

    5. KR*

      From someone in a big company in AP – I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I tell my vendors to email with me directly as our central invoice processing and AP Dept is remarkably inefficient and doesn’t seem to understand how we do business. I hope you get an answer now. My only other advice would be to find all employees you can email and annoy them until they route you to the right person.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        I wish I could clone you and then I would never speak horribly about AP departments *sobs*

        I have this one AP contact that gets all salty if I reach out to her and points me to the AP general mailbox. Even though I make it clear that I haven’t received a response from that mailbox for who-knows-what reasoning. I have had people get angry when their direct emails get captured in our system somehow and are marked as AP. It’s even more of a nightmare for companies that don’t go through AP but have people who do ordering and are supposed to be using their credit cards…but they don’t, they ask to bill it on terms and just send it into their accounting departments.

        Then the AP department will not kick it back to where I can see it of course, no it’s some sort of internal thing on their end. They don’t say “Yo, not our invoice” or whatever, they just throw it out. And 50 days later I’m like “Where’s our money…it’s late…what’s going on?!” Then it takes forever to find someone who gives enough of an EF to track it down.

        A lot of times there’s nobody who cares until they want to order from us and get told it’s not possible due to the delinquent account. Then suddenly someone has a fire under their butts and they get us paid.

        People don’t realize with me personally, I remember the problem accounts. Like a drug tracking dog, I know that scent and I will chase it. I have a few accounts that as soon as I see they have an open invoice, they’re tracked until I lock them on day 1 of past-due. It has retrained a few places who know now they can’t play games with us but of course there are the ones who simply do not care and are clearly running some kind of shell game with their company funds.

    6. yams*

      I work in sourcing… and I hate my AP department. I have had so many issues because they cannot–or will not– pay invoices in a timely fashion. It drives me nuts. At this point I have several vendors who basically charge me CIA, which is fine by me. I just put in the dang request and when the finance director complains I just tell him his staff cost us credit with the supplier and now we have to pay up.
      I know you mentioned the buyer is useless, but would you happen to have information on her boss or another buyer the sales team at your company is friendly with? That could help smooth things over.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Sadly these buyers are so rouge that it rarely helps to reach out to another one of them. Many are in different departments spread out throughout the country. I’m mostly ignored if I reach out to other buyers within the same organization because it’s a “Not my problem, until I want something from you” set up. Sadly we’re not a big enough vendor for many to have a soft spot for us, you know?

        But I certainly am a tricksy woman, I start emailing customer service or other general mailboxes trying to get forwarded to SOMEONE. Also to add shame to it all, so these CSR reps know that their company isn’t paying bills. It doesn’t really do much really but it at least takes the burn out of my chaffed butt.

        Not my first rodeo, just a different set of vendors to whip into shape when possible.

        My bad debt is delightfully low BTW, this kind of stuff is very rare, most places I know I need to grease some wheels a different way or there are backways into getting AP’s attention. Then there’s these snakes in the grass that get your ankles.

        1. yams*

          Honestly, I get it. I’ve felt the same impulse of ignoring vendors I don’t deal with, but we learned the hard way it’s best if we deal with these issues rather than letting them fester. We do not want a reputation for not paying our vendors in time, we already have enough issues with AP not doing its job correctly for us to add more fuel to the fire.
          You might get lucky with CS actually, they may know who to forward the request to.

          I’ve also worked AP and it’s such a thankless job. I’m so happy to be out of it. I’m not well suited to sit in a cubicle looking at invoices all day, I go mad after a couple months.

          1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

            True story, after my very first job, I did six months as a temp. One of the jobs was an AP position at a hospital I was also temping in medical records at. They had an opening in the AP department at that time and wanted me to apply, I kindly bowed out because I knew it wasn’t for me.

            Fast forward, shy of twenty years and I was walking to the mailbox, grumbling at the phantom AP departments that I’m complaining about here…and it dawned on me that could have been my life. What an utter nightmare.

            Instead I moved to full cycle books and then accountant/controller level positions. I am only suited for this size of business or I will curl up in a ball.

            Just learning about mega corp payment schedules gives me hives. What do you mean you only cut checks once a month? MIND BLOWN.

            I place 99% of the orders, so I don’t need to track anyone down for approvals, if I’m ordering it, it’s been approved. Then I pay it, with time to spare so we never age over 30 days with weekly check runs.

            My worst memories were of my first job as an AP clerk where I had to wire transfer 80 wires manually a week. Sitting there, highlighting and doing the math on each wire then calling the wire room up on the phone and giving all the details for each one. Over. And over. And over. And over.

            1. Yams*

              Goodness monthly check runs!? We did check runs every two weeks but we at least paid for everything that would mature the week after the check run so nothing would be too late! I really don’t get why they can’t do a freaking weekly run, most accounting systems do most of the job for you! And you can mass upload the transfers to the bank portals! It’s so easy nowadays. Weird company policies.
              Right now if I want to make sure invoices get paid in a timely fashion I gotta sit with the ap guy for an hour to discuss what invoices he’s going to pay and include the ones I want paid. Even then if the treasury department screws up I gotta wait another full week.

  173. Should Have Been a Robot*

    Advice on dealing with a manager who’s good at the work side of management but not so good at the people side?

    I work on a 5-person team at a fairly small organization (~60 people), but I don’t see much of my boss. Both of us are on-site full-time, and neither of us has the kind of role where we’re in meetings all day, so it’s not that there isn’t time to meet. It’s more that my boss doesn’t see the need to check in with me unless there’s an issue to work out about a particular project.

    Managers at my org are theoretically supposed to have one-on-one meetings with their direct reports once a month, but we’ve never done that. I haven’t even had a performance review or mid-year check-in for the past two years because we’re always “too busy” when review time comes up. But more and more, I’m finding it demoralizing that my boss can’t find a couple of hours in his entire year to talk with me about how my work is going and what my goals should be.

    This is not normal, right? But I feel like if I bring this up with my boss, he’ll look at me like I have three heads and ask why I need more attention. And how do you explain to your boss that he’s managing employees, not just work?

    1. Havarti*

      This is not normal. Does your boss avoid all the other direct reports too? Are you friendly enough with any of them to see how successful they’ve been in securing feedback from him? I think it’s worth it to try talking to him about wanting to go over your work and goals. If he can’t wrap his mind around how managing is supposed to work, you may need to consider a new job if this gets too demoralizing for you.

    2. LadeeDa*

      It is NOT normal, generally speaking. But is it the norm for your company? Is your manager having regular one on one conversations with his other direct reports? Is it common in your company for managers not to have regular performance conversations? Sadly, it is usually the corporate culture driving this lack of performance conversations.
      Performance management process and requirements are my team’s responsibility. So we set the process, set the policy, educate and train employees and managers on the process and fundamentals, and set the standards. If your HR department is not setting a process – either manual or through a performance system, then it is going to be easy for managers to simply not do it.
      Without annual reviews are you not getting raises, promotions, bonuses?
      My boss has regular conversations with everyone but me, her excuse is that she knows I am a self-starter and going to get things done. However, it has come to bite me in the butt at annual review time, because she has no idea what all I have done. So I set up regular meetings with her. They aren’t monthly, as they are with all her other direct reports, but they are at least every other month.
      My recommendation to you is to figure out what is going on in your corporate culture- to figure out if this is acceptable there, and if you think you can reach out to your manager- then do so. I would approach it in a very upbeat and positive way “I would value your coaching and input on how I can develop my skills/performance/competencies, and would really like to connect with you on a regular basis.”

  174. The Other CC*

    Anyone else working adjacent to lawyers get a lot of pressure to go to law school and join their ranks? I’m enjoying working as a paralegal but after a few months I already know I have zero desire to practice law, much less acquire a bunch of debt and go through four years of law school at night. I’ve tried to express this, but my boss keeps sending me articles about other paralegals who became lawyers and talking about what a great profession it is, etc etc. I’m flattered they think I could hack it, but it feels…weird. Besides sending them a clip of the “Don’t Be A Lawyer” song from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, anyone have any tips on how to say “No thank you, I would be absolutely miserable in this field” without insulting their profession?

    1. Hope*

      My approach to that is to say “I’m so glad other people enjoy being lawyers, because it means I don’t have to.” It’s almost universally applicable to things people are trying to rope you into that you know are not for you, because you can substitute “having kids/having dogs/square-dancing/being surgeons/training velociraptors/baking cakes/etc.” as needed.

    2. irene adler*

      Just tell him you’ll enroll when he cuts the check to cover the ENTIRE cost of law school + enough money to live on while attending classes. Anything less is a no-go.

    3. Four lights*

      Paralegal here. Haven’t felt the pressure, but stick to your guns. It’s a different job, with different responsibilities. It’s a sign that you’re doing your job well. Try something like the following and keep cutting and pasting until they get it. Don’t feel you have to justify yourself to them with reasons. You can also ignore they stuff they email.

      “Thank you, but I’m happy with my current profession.”
      “Thank you, but I’m not looking to make such a big life change now or in the near future.”

    4. Ella Vader*

      I’m a paralegal, and I get the pressure from my current bosses every now and again. It’s like they can’t understand not wanting to go to law school for some reason. I just tell them I don’t want to quit and go to law school full-time, and they drop it for a while. I think it may also stem from the fact that my attorney has a habit of treating me like an associate attorney more than a paralegal, and he’s convinced I’d do well in law school.

    5. Lilysparrow*

      I’d say, try to mentally translate it as if your boss is saying, “You’re awesome! I’m really impressed with your work and we’re lucky to have you!”

      Most lawyers I’ve know truly believe that “You could be a lawyer” is the highest compliment a person could ever get about anything.

      Just accept it as praise.

  175. Plain Jane*

    I’m job searching and I applied to a job last Tuesday and got an email the following day from someone in HR saying they were interested in talking to me about the job but they didn’t have my contact number on resume (not sure what that’s about because it’s on the resume and cover I submitted) so she asked me to call her at the number in her email signature. I called and left a message saying who I was, why I was calling and left my number.

    That was on Wednesday and she hasn’t called me- should I try calling again today or wait until Monday? I don’t want to be annoying.

    1. Havarti*

      I’d try Monday. Friday’s a bad day to catch someone in the office. But the fact they said they don’t have your number when it’s on your resume is a bit… troubling. Makes me wonder how shoddy an outfit they’re running there.

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      Don’t call again. Reply by email with your number and leave the ball in their court

  176. Dragoning*

    So curious–What do you all consider career development?

    Grandboss has recently assigned me new responsibilities (not ones I particularly enjoy, but, eh). My boss is upset about it because he think it will “take more time than [he] had budgeted for [me] development”. Meanwhile, he thinks people doing one off assignments and tasks they’ve never done before is “ooh, look who gets development.”

    This seems…off to me somehow? Anyone else have an opinion to throw in?

    1. Catsaber*

      To me, it means doing work and training that aligns with a specific goal. So you would be doing one-off assignments and tasks, but they should be for a reason, not just because they need someone in a pinch.

      1. Dragoning*

        It seems mostly like he assigns this stuff by “This needs to be done, you’ve never done this before, here, development opportunity.”

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      TLDR – Development = Learning a new skill (hard or soft), gaining more insight into company process/goals/products/etc, and/or gaining exposure with the management team

      Let me start by saying, I’m giving your boss some side eye. Because it sounds like he MIGHT be saying that any work that’s not your usual work is development, which….no. I agree with the other commenters about moving toward a specific goal mostly. But there’s also another way to look at a development opportunity. If the one off task is high profile, and gives you the opportunity to work alongside higher-ups and/or departments you wouldn’t normally, or gives you wider insight into business goals or a product/tool/process/workflow, etc than you currently have, that’s also development.

      Story time: I took on extra projects a few years ago that were interesting enough to me (so I had the bonus of enjoyment going for me), but at the time it didn’t look like the tasks provided much opportunity to advance my career beyond letting me work more collaboratively with other departments and people in higher positions. I was bored and looking for new challenges/tasks, and this was the best they could do since there wasn’t really a path for advancement where I was. It turned out a year later, we decided that string of one off projects I was doing could actually support a full time position/promotion, and I was the obvious candidate. I did the same thing in that position to leg myself into a product role. So I ended up advancing twice in a department that has notoriously little room for advancement and using that momentum to jump onto a totally new team where I got to use my skills and knowledge from my old role and learn the rest of the job from the ground up.

      So at the time, it looked kind of menial and random, but it really raised my profile with the management team. Everyone knew who I was, even in a sort of invisible department, and that’s not nothing if you do your job well. But if you’re not learning a new skill or gaining exposure from whatever “development” task you’re being assigned, that’s just convenience for your manager, not true development. And honestly, if you ASK you’re manager how this develops you, Manager should be able to TELL you. Otherwise he’s just blowing smoke up your pipe.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        And if it’s developing you in a direction you don’t particularly want to go, that’s not awesome either. But your boss shouldn’t be calling this development just because that’s the easiest bucket of time to rob to get the new tasks done.

      2. Dragoning*

        The kinds of tasks he’s assigning as development are definitely high-profile. It’s like. Updating procedure type things.

  177. Plain Jane*

    What’s the job searching etiquette when you had a phone interview for a job that you don’t think would be a good fit for you, and you don’t think they were impressed with you, either? I’m not really one to feel comfortable saying Thanks but No Thanks in a phone interview unless a huge dealbreaker comes up like a salary that’s way too low or, we forgot to tell you this non-remote job is in our [city 4 states away] office.

    Anyway, does it make sense to send a Thanks but no thanks email if I get an in-person interview invitation (which I don’t think I will.)?

    1. Plain Jane*

      Sorry that was supposed to be, should I send that email proactively or only if they invite me for another interview.

      2. SophieChotek*

        I just had this experience and had a similar question. In the end I decided not to withdraw. I sent the “Thank you”/”Follow-up” Email, still mentioned a skill/experience I had not mentioned in an interview that was in line with their job qualifcation….

        And then was very relieved when I did not get a 2nd interview/get the job.

        I did think about “Thanks but no thanks” but also did not want to sabotage myself in case I was having an off day (or thought I was) but they actually liked me, or I had a mistaken first impression….

        Anyway, that is just me….

        1. Plain Jane*

          Yeah, I will probably just send a Thank You for taking the time to interview me email and assume I won’t get an offer to move forward.

  178. LizIndeed*

    First time commenting (been lurking for years)- But I’m working on changing jobs. Up until this point I’ve been a creative professional (graphic design, video production, etc.) who has always relied on my portfolio to show my strengths. However I’m currently running a video program as a creative director and I want to continue on that route as a director/manager/producer of a group of creatives. I’ve found showing my personal portfolio has almost been a confusing detriment in applying. My current idea is a website that shows off my creative contributions and projects, trying to frame me as a high level creative instead of an individual contributor. Do you think that has a place in the world of applying for jobs? Is it strange, or a good idea? I just feel so naked applying with only a resume and cover letter after years of showing off a portfolio as well.

    2. animaniactoo*

      It does not just have a place – it’s a thing that’s already happened, and you’ll actually be more on the outlier end of the spectrum if you *don’t* have one.

      Specifically, it’s enough of a thing that Adobe has been trying to “curate” a common look/marketplace for that type of purpose with Behance.

      1. LizIndeed*

        Thanks! Yeah, I think in general I’d be quite weirded out hiring someone for a creative job that didn’t have a website. I think I am just trying to figure out what type of content to show. Last time I applied for a job I was asked if I understood the position was management because my portfolio showed individual projects. I think that was definitely my mistake and am working on crafting a website now that shows my big picture contributions to projects instead of individual things I’ve personally done. It’s just a different way to look at how I sell myself for sure, haha!

    3. irene adler*

      Please set up the website. As an interviewer, I’d like the luxury of reviewing the portfolio on my time.

      Also, I interviewed someone once who brought along a portfolio. No reason to. This was a lab tech position.
      Nevertheless, he was insistent that I view all of his projects. The skills utilized in these projects had no bearing whatsoever on the job description. He went on and on. Couldn’t get him to stop.

      I announced that it was my lunch time. That got him to wrap things up.

      Never again. Park the portfolio outside.
      Send me the website instead.

      1. nym*

        Solidarity on the “it doesn’t apply” interviewee. I had someone bring in a portfolio to a project management job interview – but it wasn’t a portfolio of project management tools and how she’d used them, it was a printed portfolio of deliverables from several projects, like wrap up reports and slide presentations.

    4. Overeducated*

      I think a website couldn’t hurt, but you might also consider shifting the language describing yourself and your ideal jobs a little more in terms of project and program management – there tend to be somewhat standardized terms for that kind of work across industries, and dropping them in amidst your creative background might help hiring managers envision what you can contribute as the leader of a group.

      1. Overeducated*

        PS please take this or leave this as applicable – I do know a lot of people, and am one myself, who shifted from being individual contributors to project/program management, and learning the right language for skills we were already using was key for all of us – but I am NOT in the arts.

  179. LadeeDa*

    TGIF!
    I am working from home today and just got a call from the head of one of our biggest business units, who I am very friendly with. He told me that one of his VPs just quit- and walked out, without giving notice, to go work for one of our competitors. And 15 minutes after that VP left, someone discovered in the men’s restroom, on that floor—– uggg, that someone (the VP who quit?) had taken a giant dump and smeared it all over the restroom.
    I know this VP well and have always felt he was insane, not just a jerk, not just rude, not just insufferable, but CRAZY!! I have no idea if he did it or not, but that restroom is on the floor of that department, it is a Friday, not as many people aren’t in the office… and I can’t imagine… I mean… that isn’t a normal thing to do. That is a whole level of crazy I can’t even comprehend.

    I think it is time for a beer.

      1. LadeeDa*

        First beer poured! My phone is ringing off the hook, everyone wants to tell me about it. I am trying to be positive and not gossip-y

        1. Anon for this comment*

          It’s hard to fight the speculation! Our CFO got canned last week, so I’m right there with you!

        1. RVA Cat*

          This. The cleaning crew should get hazard pay or something.
          Could y’all maybe sent a bill for the cleanup to his home – or even better, his new office?

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      ICK.
      I’m relatively new to this site, but I know Alison had one in the past about “illegal dumping” …comments mentioned it and I’m not looking forward to running across it in the archives.
      And now there are two. :(

        1. Lilith*

          Oh man, that is all kinds of haz mat crazy. Not to mention so awful to do to the custodial staff. It doesn’t pay back mean boss. Ugh

  180. Persephone Mulberry*

    I am no longer in temp-to-perm purgatory! The company formally offered me “my” job last Friday and I accepted on Monday. After some additional back and forth between the company and the staffing agency, it was decided that my official start date was this past Monday.

    New question: What do you make of this time off policy (as listed in the employee handbook)?

    [Company] recognizes the positive effects that a flexible work schedule can have on helping team
    members balance their career and family lives. [Company] does not have a formal Paid-Time-Off policy.
    Generally, the amount of time off that most individuals take is three weeks (15 days) per year. It is understood
    and agreed to by both [Company] and its team members that task completion and job duties will be completed in
    whatever amount of time necessary to do so. Furthermore, it may be at the team member’s discretion as to
    typical working hours. [Company] team members do not accrue any time off privileges and would not
    receive any monetary payouts upon separation. If you have any questions regarding acceptable time off
    practices, please consult with your team leader.

    This is the first time I’ve ever had a job that didn’t have a specific PTO accrual policy and I’m kind of flailing. Their timesheet system is “track your time however you want, just make sure you turn in something to payroll if you want to get paid.”

    1. LadeeDa*

      Congratulations!!! YAY!
      I am assuming you aren’t an hourly employee? I would start paying attention and asking around to discover what is the norm. Companies that have this type of policy usually are really good to their employees. My company is the same. They know none of us work 40 hours a week, or regular hours. I work from home 99% of the time, I have a team that is all over North and South America, and I am part of a global team- so, like today, my workday started at 4:30 AM for a global call, and Monday I have a call at midnight.
      I book standard vacation time a week here, 2 weeks there– I plan my long vacations around my crunch/busy times, but I also take a day here and there, I took every Friday off for 4 months because I was working insane hours Sunday-Thursday for a rollout.
      Pay attention to corporate culture and don’t be afraid to ask people at your level ad your manager what is the norm.

    2. CAA*

      It’s mainly a way to bypass any state laws that require the company to pay out accrued PTO upon separation. It may also be a way to avoid listing unused PTO as a liability on the company’s balance sheet and prevent people from accruing large leave balances. You should feel comfortable taking the full 15 days off each year.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Congratulations! (I have nothing to add about the PTO policy that LadeeDaa and CAA didn’t say already.)

    4. animaniactoo*

      This is technically an “unlimited PTO” thing, with an advisory that “about 15 days is what we expect you to use”.

      Which basically means, they won’t look sideways at you for using 15 or 17 or 13. But don’t use 40. Not unless you’re drop dead sick and can prove you actually needed 40.

  181. Me--Blargh!*

    Two interviews this week:
    1. I took a chance and responded to a confidential ad and they wanted a screening interview via Zoom. The company is in BiggerCity; everything it does I’ve already done and it’s all stuff I can totally do; what I said I was looking for salary-wise, citing the increased COL, they said was definitely in their range. It seemed to go really well. They asked me if I could do an in-person if necessary (I’m 200 miles away). I said no problem (it’s not). They asked me if I could move in a few weeks. Optimistically, I said, “Sure!” Afterward, I called my mum and was like, “OMG I said I could; what if I can’t?” She told me yeah, we’ll get you moved if necessary. I don’t know if she’s being optimistic, LOL.

    It’s an admin job, but I have my fingers crossed for this one because the benefits sound awesome and it would get me the hell out of here. BiggerCity is also getting an Alamo Drafthouse (when? hurry up). Hahah, this is my new metric–affordable housing? Public transport? Is there an Alamo? :) Please please please please pleeeeeeze.

    2. In MyCity, could pay decently, but benefits are much weaker and no healthcare. (Yes, you heard me.) It’s a franchise office of a bigger company. They’re just under the threshold of having to offer it. I had asked about it in the initial email contact because they said “Benefits: PTO and retirement” but nothing else. I almost withdrew, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to go talk to them. This one is more like an executive assistant to a financial advisor, who interviewed me. And just happened to look like a cross between Brad Pitt and Jensen Ackles–damn! Not that I would ever consider it. But damn!

    It was one of the better interviews I’ve had–not because damn! but because he was prepared, asked good questions, and engaged with the answers. So even if I don’t get the job or don’t take it, it was a good chance to practice with a decent interviewer for once.

    Also, another book rejection. Arrrrghh!

    1. LadeeDa*

      How exciting! I LOVE Alamo draft house, such good beer, no kids, and such fun movie experiences!

      1. Me--Blargh!*

        I am going there tonight–I have a new friend date for a The Princess Bride movie party!!
        Can’t drink, because I’m driving. But I’m gonna eat. :)

    2. Overeducated*

      Good luck, fingers crossed for you! #1 especially sounds like a solid opportunity, and hey, if you have to move ASAP you will make it happen.

      1. Me--Blargh!*

        Thanks. I need to leave here–I cannot have a life here.

        OMG I also need to get away from these DOGS.

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Good luck! And realistically, start cleaning stuff out as if you were for sure moving. Decluttering is a good idea regardless, and it will help if you move. If you wouldn’t move the 30 year old encyclopedia set, do you really need it now?

      1. Me--Blargh!*

        I’ve been doing this slowly, but it’s hard because I’ve had no idea where I would be, how much space I’d have, or what I would need. There are apartments that are bigger than my house (I have 780 square feet). And then again, tiny ones. Could I take my washer and dryer? I’d like to not have to go to the laundromat. Can I afford that? I don’t have a clue. I haven’t known what job I could get there or what it would pay. Nobody pays relocation for an admin.

        The one advantage is that if I were selling the house and it took a while, I could leave some stuff here for staging and come back for it gradually on weekends, if I decided I wanted it. All I’d have to take is immediate needs. That would save me from storage and from dumping it at my mum’s (she said I could put stuff there, but she has perfect Martha Freaking Stewart decor, etc. in every inch of her house).

        Also, I have few boxes–I tried to get some, but nobody gives them away. :(

        1. nonegiven*

          Ask some liquor stores if they can save you some boxes and what day of the week you can collect them.

        2. Ktelzbeth*

          Liquor stores, grocery stores, even offices if you know someone because the boxes paper comes in are good for smaller things. As far as washer and dryer go, you may be able to sell them as part of the house deal if you can’t/don’t want to move them. Plenty of people around here do.

          Good luck! You can do it!

        3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          Those giant blue IKEA bags or those big zippered storage bags with handles are also really useful for moving.

          1. Me--Blargh!*

            We don’t have IKEA here (BiggerCity does, though, so yay!). Also, I thought I had some of those giant Ziploc bags but I can’t find them. Another reason to KonMari everything!

            Of course, I may not get this job and might be stuck here among constantly barking dogs until I snap and set everything on fire. D:<

  182. Ms. Temp-O*

    I’ve been temping at my job for almost 8 months now. They are looking to hire full time for my position, which I am eager to apply to, and I was told they’d start looking for candidates once they had another manager in place. Manager’s been hired, started on Tuesday and now I’m wondering how to ask what’s going on with my position. Is it too soon to ask when they will be posting the job and application? Should I ask if I’m a front runner? (My initial contract was for 3 months, got extended to 6, and a month after I left they asked if I was still interested in the job and would come back as a temp)
    More so, is there anything that should make me worried I won’t get the job? I’m going to be 26 this year (US) and I need benefits.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It depends on your temp agency and contract rules. If it costs them a buyout fee, that’s a reason temps are often not hired for jobs.

      If you have worked your period and they can hire you without extra payments, you’ll be sitting in a much better spot than those applying from outside.

    3. Is my boss here?*

      My experience is that if the client is used to having you as a temp they’ll be reluctant to hire you perm if it costs them a placement fee to your agency plus a higher salary and benefits for you. They take you for granted and they take for granted they can get you cheap.

      Ask your agency about whether there’s a time line after which there won’t be a placement fee, and pay attention to *how* they answer. They’re making money by placing you as a long-term temp and may be reluctant to give that up. Hate to sound cynical, and not all agencies are jerky, but I’ve been burned a couple of times.

  183. Master Bean Counter*

    Is it okay to let them see you sweat?

    Background–I work for two closely related companies that used to be one company. The CEO of the sister company was let go. Our CEO is now running both companies. Now he is looking at consolidating some of the departments back together. My department is one of them.
    While logic tells me I’m secure in my position, after all I got invited to the re-org meeting, anxiety likes to talk stuff in my ear.
    Given that my anxiety is already keyed up from personal issues, I’m trying to appease it by cleaning and reorganizing my office. My direct reports are also worried about the merger. I think they are noticing the anxiety. My gut tells me that the cuts are going to happen in the sister company. So nobody here should be worried about anything. Well nobody but my one previous low performer, who has had quite the turn around in the past two months.
    Would you want to hear that your manager is nervous in the spirit of honesty? Or should I be working harder to suck it up and remain calm?

    1. Havarti*

      Are your direct reports coming to you for reassurance? You don’t want to just enter the room and blurt out that you’re anxious about the re-org. Like it’s ok to say “No, I don’t know how things are going to turn out. We just need to do the best we can in the meantime.” Like I want some honesty from my boss so I know he’s human but I don’t need him spreading his anxiety around – it spreads like plague. It’s ok to be concerned but if you’re calm, they’ll be calmer too.

    2. Four lights*

      Also, it sounds like you don’t actually know where cuts might happen. You don’t want to be like that manager who told his team they would be let go, and they only found out it wasn’t going to happen until after they’d all quit for lower paying jobs.

    3. Murphy*

      I don’t think I’d want to hear that my manger was anxious. That would make me wonder if they knew something I didn’t. I think it could be OK to acknowledge the uncertainty, but try to look calm, even if you’re not feeling it (which is understandable!)

    4. animaniactoo*

      Part of your job is to manage the appearance. So suck it up, remain calm AND be honest when you talk to anyone.

      “I don’t know what’s going to happen, and I’d love an answer too but I think the best thing we can do right now is put our heads down and get the job done. We do not want to run around like chickens squawking and creating the impression that we might be good candidates for collateral damage. As soon as I have anything definitive to tell you*, I will absolutely let you know.”

      *Note this wording is important in case you get definitive information with instructions NOT to share it… at which point, if the sharing plan is unfair to the employees (i.e. they’ll be told on friday 3 weeks from now and get two week’s pay as severance), you decide whether it’s worth sharing it anyway on the down low.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        As an employee who went through a similar merger in the last 18 months, I think this is way too much. It’s not really any information that helps people stay calm, and the language is actually pretty alarming.

        “There are no firm plans at this point on how the department merger will work. Management is still working on that plan. When I have information to share on that front, I will. For now, everything is continuing “business as usual. If you have any specific questions or concerns, please feel free to talk to me. If I don’t know that answer, I will talk to the merger team to try to find one.”

        Then do that. Business as usual. And keep a running list of questions/issues/concerns that you can try to run down for yourself and for your team. And, since you were invited to the meeting, do you have some leverage to ask about any of these unknowns? Not necessarily to share with your team, but to starting planning around? It may not be far enough along in the process yet, but you may have more standing than you think. Of course, you know the situation better, so judge accordingly.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      So I went through this as an employee about 18 months ago, and it was a very long process. Like…6-9 months of uncertainty for me. Probably more for my manager.

      And as a manager, you have to be calm. Kind, competent, calm. You want your employees to feel like they can trust you with questions and concerns, and that – even though there’s a lot of unknowns at the moment – things are moving forward, and they’ll be looped in as soon as possible. If you receive concerns or questions, note those with management, and try to get answers. You were included in the planning meeting(s?), so if you feel out of the loop, ask about progress! You’re invite gives you some standing to ask about status if you need to. (Just keep it professional, don’t let your anxiety spiral you into a daily frantic email or something like that.)

      You want to show concern but inspire confidence, if that makes sense. By concern, I mean almost the old fashioned meaning…so, consideration? I guess? You’re concerned for their anxiety. You care about their work experience. You’re doing your best to highlight the good work they’re doing with management. But ultimately, things HAVE to be business as usual. That’s what is expected of them and of you, and you need to help them do that. Your anxiety isn’t really helpful at this point, and it will actively upset your employees and hurt your team.

      I said this in a reply to another comment, but if you’re sensing a lot of anxiety on your team, be pre-emptive. You can say something like –
      “I know we are all eager to know how this will all shake out. There are no firm plans at this point on how the department merger will work. Management is still working through everything. When I have information to share on that front, I will. For now, everything is continuing ‘business as usual’, and I’m expecting us all to continue our work to our usual standards. If you have any specific questions or concerns, please feel free to talk to me. If I don’t know the answer, I will talk to the merger team to try to find one.”

      When this happened at my company, I knew my manager was engaged with the process, couldn’t always share info or didn’t always have info, but that he was being as transparent as possible. I also knew he expected us to continue to do our work as usual, and that he was making very clear to management the value of his employees and of his department as a whole. He took our questions and escalated them as needed, and came back with answers as he was able. I was worried, but he handled it really, really well.

      So for your team – be open to questions, set clear expectations. And document the heck out of your team’s successes, the value they bring to the org, know your cost margin/budget etc, and show how effective you are as a department. It will help you preserve your team, but it will also give you insight into where the slack is, if the worst happens and they ask you to downsize. Doing it now will make you look like a rockstar when the higher ups start asking about this later.

    6. NewNameJustForThisBecause*

      I just had to acknowledge the turnaround by the previous low performer. What’s the chance that once the merger cuts are over and they are spared, they will revert??

  184. Bacon Pancakes*

    My boss and I have a pretty good relationship/rapport. In the past I have been up front with my desire to promote, which would require me to leave my small office. I had framed it previously as me staying within our agency but moving to an office where the next level position exists.
    Annual reviews are in the next two weeks, should I mention to him that I am looking at applying to a position outside our agency (and outside the state).
    I also would like him to be a reference, but obviously I would have to tell him I am looking elsewhere in order to ask that of him…

    1. Hmmm*

      If you don’t need his reference keep quiet. There are too many downsides to telling your boss for me to think the benefit of his reference will be worth it.

      If for some reason you absolutely need his reference, could you frame it as, “As you know I have been interested in one day moving into promotion. If the right opportunity came up would you be open to being my reference?” This way it is more open ended and not seeming like you are jumping ship immediately.

      1. Bacon Pancakes*

        Unfortunately, I think I really do… I have been in my office over seven years, and he has been my supervisor almost six years. My supervisor before him within my office (the one who hired me) was fired, then brought back to the regional office after a demotion. My previous supervisor is a misogynistic creep who I do not want to allow any holdings he may have over me professionally. My supervisor before that was fired and I no longer have his contact information. My graduate advisor is retired (and terrible at communication). My supervisor before has passed away.
        I plan to ask a professor from my undergraduate who I still have strong ties with (I regularly lead field trips for his classes, we host undergraduate volunteer work at my office for his students, we have a paper published together) and an associate within my agency whose projects I have assisted on. But I really need that third, and I don’t think asking the temp employee who I have supervised for the last four years will look as good as someone who has ACTUALLY supervised me.

  185. KTM*

    I’m a 30-yr old female and will be taking a work trip to India (Bangalore) next month. It’s supposed to be hot and humid! I’ve read that the city is reasonably westernized so I can wear my ‘usual’ business casual but I’ve heard infrastructure isn’t too great so not sure if my normal Banana Republic flats are fine for footwear? Will I sweat through a dress pants and blouse? I live in the Southwest so I’m not used to humidity… any suggestions on appropriate items to wear are welcome (and I may post again tomorrow on the open thread)

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      I have never been to India but: Flats have absolutely awful support for your feet (broke my foot in jcrew flats … still have them but way more careful about where I wear them and how I move). Since it’s an unknown, plan for something more stable that you would feel comfortable walking in for a while and on different surfaces like cobblestones and uneven sidewalks. You can find professional-ish looking sneakers/slip-ons. You can always change into flats inside.

      1. Friday afternoon fever*

        Also I live in a fairly humid area and the blouse really depends on the fabric. Things like rayon or polyester don’t breathe well, will make you sweat more and will show sweat easily. (Boob sweat, back sweat, underarm sweat……. neck sweat…… ugh.)

        Have you tried looking at travel blogs for suggestions?

  186. anxiousinterviewee*

    I’ve seen advice given here to leave short stints off a resume. I have one of those now–I was at my last job for only 3 weeks before I was laid off because they eliminated their training program. Obviously, this job doesn’t make sense to present on a resume, since I accomplished next to nothing while there. Does anyone have advice for when to disclose this in the interview process, though? For now, I’ve been bringing it up if there is an organic opportunity—at least, this is what I’ve done when interviewing at larger companies, because I think that they’ll be more likely to do a background check and that finding an undisclosed employer late in the process wouldn’t be great. Am I being too forward or looking too defensive by bringing it up though? I feel like it’s important because it accounts for why I left one employer and why I’m looking for work again…but don’t want to sabotage myself or raise doubts about my candidacy. (For what its worth, the short-stint employer made it clear that they would give me a great reference, so no worries there.)

    1. animaniactoo*

      A company who thinks an undisclosed 3-week stint is a problem is a company you don’t want to work for. Even if it’s a company whose application asks you to list every single job you’ve ever had.

      Absolutely, bring it up organically if you can because you’ve got a great reference to use with them. Otherwise, don’t worry about it.

      1. anxiousinterviewee*

        Thanks for the reassurance. Besides this, I’ve had stable, longer-term employment, but I was afraid that not disclosing would make me look like I was hiding something for BadReasons. Thanks for the heads-up about applications, too!

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Are you only applying at places that do background checks? Or do you mean reference checks? Because if the place does background checks that would find this 3 week stint and turn it into A THING, then maybe it should be on the resume and discussed in your cover letter or something? Or you should just wait until the background check part where it asks you for you list of employers, which I think is separate from the resume. Either way, you want to do it in a way that makes it very clear that the program you were hired under was eliminated, and it had nothing to do with you or your work. (Also – serious side eye at that employer for hiring when they had to know that was in the works)

      But if you just mean references, I don’t think you should be bringing it up at all. Unless they ask why you left your last role, and then it’s just “I left for another opportunity that unfortunately didn’t pan out” or something like that.

      1. anxiousinterviewee*

        Thanks. I was ticked off about the timing too….they were genuinely apologetic, though, which helped *somewhat*. I’ve been trying to frame it mentally as, “better to find out they were that disorganized early on than suffer through working there.”

        To clarify, I’m specifically referring to companies that are up-front that they do a background check before finalizing your offer. I know this isn’t every employer by far, but it’s come up a few times in my job search. My preference is to be more open than not, so I’ve been including it in these instances, and I’ve been doing backflips to try and explain the weird circumstances. It doesn’t seem to be a problem yet, but I don’t want to weaken myself relative to anyone else. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

      2. Natalie*

        I’ve never gotten a background check where they expected 100% of your jobs in the checking timeframe to be on your resume. You typically fill out a separate background check form that is clear about whatever the criteria for inclusion are, and the check is against that form.

    3. Not Today Satan*

      Most employers won’t find this. Even the ones that do “background checks” usually just do credit and criminal background checks. Unless you’re applying for a security clearance or something, don’t worry about it.

  187. Bantha Pudu*

    Does anyone’s workplace utilize a peer support program? If so, what are your thoughts and experiences?

    I work for a law enforcement agency, and to be frank, the punitive nature of the profession is sometimes internal as well as external, leading to an environment of distrust. These are volunteer coworkers, not licensed professionals- what expectation of privacy does a person have when using the peer support program?

    2. ..Kat..*

      I would worry that my need for support (with all the details I provide) could be weaponized against me. Please go to a licensed professional instead.

  188. ALL THE INTERVIEWS (yay?)*

    I just got a voice message asking me to fly out for an in person interview after a phone interview. I am definitely interested the job, but

    1) I do not want to spend the time flying to the other side of the US if we are not on the same page re: salary. It’s okay to ask about their range prior to coming out, right?
    2) I know I will not hear from other jobs I have applied to for at least 4-5 weeks. Should I made it clear there’s not a rush on my end? The message said “As soon as possible.” I am already flying halfway across the country for one interview next week, and I have zero desires to bounce across the US in one week. I am also a breastfeeding mother and traveling while pumping sucks. Plus, leaving the husband alone with a the baby is a big ask.

    I’ve been in academia long enough I’m not sure of these things! Considering staying vs leaving. Jobs that won’t tell me for a while are in academia (faculty jobs at R1s). Job that wants to fly me out now is in industry.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      My partner is going through something similar. Academia vs. industry gets really stressful! But if they’re hiring PhDs/PhD candidates, the industry job should (I would hope) expect that it’s a more drawn out process than it would be if they were simply hiring for an open position.

      You can ask about salary before you fly out. Before that, check Glassdoor or any other resource available to you. If they’re hiring off the academic market, I’m a bit surprised they didn’t list the salary, but my experience is pretty limited and secondhand.

      However, I wouldn’t delay too long on the fly out if you’re interested and the salary works for you. If it’s “as soon as possible”, then you’re likely at the top of their list and want to either make you the offer or reject you sooner rather than later so they can move on to the next candidate (or not). Also, they probably want to get you before anyone else does. If you wait, you risk them moving on to the next choice. If you do get the offer, you can push on the R1s to move their timelines forward.

      I know the baby complicates things, and it sucks, but I do think it’s part of the deal with flyouts, that you kind of have to jump on them. If there’s a chance you can afford to bring your husband and baby, it might be worth the money and the hassle.

  189. Bosses who require agreement*

    Has anyone had this dynamic with a manager?
    -Boss wants you to do something a certain way
    -You prefer another way and make your case.
    -Boss makes clear that’s not going to happen.
    -You acquiesce and agree to do the thing, with a conciliatory tone.

    But then… they don’t let it die? Like they keep trying to debate it and get you to agree with them? I hate this dynamic, because I’m perfectly willing to forfeit a disagreement about something if I’m not going to win. But I hate either pretending like I agree 100%, or beating a dead horse. Even worse, I often even DO say that I agree, but it’s not convincing enough, so the “debate” keeps on.

    I’ve now had two bosses like this. It seriously drives me crazy.

    1. CAA*

      Yes. This is incredibly annoying. If you are my boss, I can do something your way without agreeing that your way is the best way, and I will do it professionally and competently because that is how I work. I had a bad experience with this early in my career, and it is something that has really influenced me as a manager to make sure I’m not carrying on an argument that I’ve already won by virtue of being the one in authority.

      I will say that it’s way more common for an employee to be the one wanting to argue endlessly though. There’s been more than one time where I’ve had to say “I’ve heard you and evaluated your suggestions and made a decision that we will do it this other way. I do not need you to agree that my decision is the best one, but I do need you to accept the decision and stop arguing about it.”

      1. Bosses who require agreement*

        Exactly. Even worse, both bosses I’ve had like this like to pretend they’re the good cop that they just “want to understand” my point of view. So (when I’m not strong–I’ve been trying to be more convincing with my, “You’re 100% RIGHT!” routine) they force me into re-entering the “debate”, but then they hold my opinions against me and consider me to be “difficult”. (Well, technically that dynamic was only really with one of these managers.) I hate it.

      2. Kathleen_A*

        I have a boss like that right now. Or at least she’s sometimes like that. None of those who work for her ever really know which way she’s going to be. Sometimes disagreement is fine, but sometimes she actually considers it, I don’t know, defiance? Boss told one of my coworkers, who is the nicest, least confrontational person you can imagine, that she was the most “insubordinate” employee she’d ever had, which is – I feel confident in saying – simply ridiculous.

        Anyway, Boss also has a lot of problem Letting Go. I mean, I get it – I get what you want and I’ll do my best to do it your way. You don’t have to *convert* me.

  190. Hermione Anger*

    I recently was diagnosed for ADHD after being in the workforce for several years. Unfortunately, at this point I’m pretty sure that my lack of attention for details, having serious issues focusing, and total inability to do things in a reasonable amount of time has ruined my reputation. I’ve already been fired once. Any thoughts on how to go forward from here, now that I know what the issue is so that I can fix it?

    1. former librarian*

      Are you on social media? It worsens ADHD symptoms. You can recover. Check out “ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life.”

    2. Agent J*

      I would have some language in your backpocket to explain in interviews. It depends on how comfortable you are disclosing to potential employers but you can acknowledge that your performance wasn’t as great as you’d like it to be due to a personal issue. However, you’ve made concrete steps to solve this issue, and it will have much less of an influence on your performance in the future.

        1. Agent J*

          Agreed but I’d be concerned that would open Hermione Anger to being overlooked for the job because Hiring Manager is concerned about “mysterious medical issue”. Not sure how off the mark that is.

  191. Overmanaged*

    Recently started a new contractor position. My direct report manager closely manages every aspect of my day, we MUST have mid week and end of week check ins where I’m asked to relay what I’ve done hour by hour each week, manager only comes into the office maybe 2-3 times a week. I feel like there should be a certain degree of trust, which doesn’t seem to exist. I do not work on any projects or anything with her so I have nothing meaningful to report to her. She micromanages when I arrive to work and leave, checking with employees to make sure. One of my biggest peeves is she instructs that I must do something right at that very moment, I’ll spend a large part of the day completing the project and contacting everyone she has said I must contact, only to be greeted with “why are getting involved with this?!” And “who told you to do this?”. Example was informed yesterday to do an audit of the website, contacting the third party who manages outside the company, who then wrangled in a internal manager and analyst who have already audited the website and continue to manage it. Who asked why was I doing this and who told me to do this? Why does this seem to be a daily occurrence with said manager?

    1. animaniactoo*

      What happened when (or would happen if) you said “My boss, Jane Beezlebrot, director of Systems, asked me to look into this. Should I have her contact you about it?”

    2. The New Wanderer*

      That kind of micromanaging and contradiction is the clearest sign of a manager who’s out of her depth and not good at the job at all. Seriously, double checking with other people about your comings and goings? Those other people are not going to be impressed by her.

      Best thing you can do to protect yourself is to document in writing/email everything she asks you to do and then go over it with her. Every time. If she claims she doesn’t have time for that (because how can she blame you later), tell her you are working to avoid any miscommunications over your task priorities and want to establish clearly what she’s asking you to do. I hope that helps because it sure sounds tedious at best, and like she’s actively working against you at worst.

    3. ..Kat..*

      Well, she seems to be treating you like an employee of the company, not a contractor. In the USA, this can have adverse legal consequences for her company.

  192. Kat*

    Suggestions for scripts to attempt to shut down some comments from coworkers that are really bothering me?

    I am generally a neat, organized person, and I’m in a workplace where people are … not, to put it politely. I hate it, but I’m trying to let it go and trying to get out of there. In the meantime, I’m dealing with frequent comments any time I neaten something about how I’m so ocd, are you sure you aren’t ocd, lol your house must be so spotless, etc. (For the record this ‘excessive neatness’ tends to be things like putting an object back in it’s clearly marked spot, rather than tossing it in a pile of random shit, or facing bills.) Last week I had someone fixated on my handwriting as ‘soooo neat you must be a secret serial killer are you sure you aren’t a serial killer’, and like, what the fuck. My handwriting is perfectly average?

    I’ve also been trying to point out how awful it is to say someone neat is ocd, because it trivializes what it actually is. (A close friend is, and struggles a lot with this sort of shit.) I’ve also tried to push back on a few discussions of how ‘nice’ mania must be for getting things done, without letting on that I am bipolar and no it fucking is NOT fun.

    Obviously, get out of this job asap, but until then, any suggestions to shut this shit down fast? I’m at the point of not caring if it’s a bit on the rude side, but I do still have to work with them.

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      Have you tried a non-response? “Hmm.” “Mmm, interesting.” Or say nothing. If it’s an observation said aloud to no/everyone, like “@all please notice and validate me,” can you pretend you didn’t hear? If they are forcing the conversation upon you, say something really boring like “Sorry, let’s cap this here because I have to get back to work / use the bathroom / take lunch / lock myself in a conference room to scream internally.” And then get less cheerful from there — “Have to get back to work, sorry!” “Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention, I’m really swamped.” Change the topic to a work question. Be just soo boring and unsatisfying to engage with. Eventually if none of this works you can say something like “you bring this up a lot and it’s getting tiresome/boring me” or “it’s so weird you bring this up all the time”

      Since you’re looking to leave I would invest zero time/effort/labor/emotional intelligence in trying to educate your coworkers, who have the emotional intelligence of a teaspoon and are likely to continue saying stuff like this until and long after you leave. Focus instead on getting through it without losing your patience.

      1. valentine*

        Coirker: Are you sure you aren’t a serial killer?
        You: Are you? *glance around the room and whisper-count the people*

        Given the onslaught, I think they just want to peck at you about something, anything. I’m not sure grey-rocking will stop them. I like to turn questions back on people, but these fiends might consider that a conversation? Raised eyebrows? No response?

    2. animaniactoo*

      “If I were OCD, I’d be over there straightening up your desk too. I straighten my desk because it helps me work better. If your desk helps you work better, all you. In the meantime, can we drop the comments about how I keep my desk? It’s getting kind of old.”

      After that, [eyeroll] “are you still on that?” and move right along ignoring the rest of the comment, preferably if you can move onto actual work even better.

      “Are you sure you aren’t a secret serial killer”
      “Pretty sure. But you know, if I was, I’d think it was a really bad idea to call attention to yourself by obsessing over my handwriting…” [evil grin with lots of teeth]

      1. The New Wanderer*

        “Are you sure you aren’t a secret serial killer”
        *pause, stare blankly at them*
        “Yes.”
        *return to work, humming “Dexter” theme song*

  193. Llellayena*

    Just a few minutes until vacation! Yay! This week has been a bear with new projects, old projects, and catching up from the retrieving of important emails that went to spam. Vacation will be wonderful! (If I can stop thinking about the 2 deadlines for 2 projects in the next 3 weeks…)

  194. beanie beans*

    I know this isn’t really the place for this recommendation (since I assume everyone knows it here), but when you’re applying for a job, ALWAYS INCLUDE A COVER LETTER. ALWAYS. ESPECIALLY IF THE APPLICATION REQUESTS IT.

    Reviewing resumes and I am SHOCKED the percentage that do not submit a cover letter, which is right in the application instructions.

    1. dovidbawie*

      Amazingly, I learned unemployment benefits don’t require people to follow directions when applying in order to keep receiving benefits.

    2. H.C.*

      & ditto for the reverse; when the application says “resumes only” — please do not attach a cover letter to the same PDF as the resume (granted, a less common problem, but still worth mentioning under the “follow instructions” umbrella.)

  195. dovidbawie*

    Update:
    A couple weeks ago I commented that I was nervous about my appointment with the unemployment services office. It went OK; sat through a stupid video, filled out a bunch of paperwork that thankfully was pretty easy, & talked with a caseworker who gave me the rundown of the super generic services the department offers along with info for places hiring like the 2020 census.

    Overall not bad, but not really useful either; as others noted it’s a small requirement for unemployment benefits. The official job board they require has gone the same way as every other job board recommendation I get, “You have GRAPHIC DESIGN/PRODUCTION ART experience! You match this listing for WAREHOUSE PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR!” Though the caseworker was super impressed with the number of interviews I’ve had, given my industry & time of layoff. Thanks to AAM for the goldmine of experience! The free stuff here is much better & actionable than the paid materials from the government department [paid in that the government takes it from me in taxes].

    I’m entering week 8 of the allowable 12 weeks of unemployment benefits. I’m also starting my own business & my first product launch will be on that last week of benefits. Certainly not expecting it to sell out instantly & replace my full-time income, but it’s my long-term goal. Until then, focusing on quality job hunting & those last couple benefits weeks probably go for part-time gym jobs or something [I miss the gym so much] so I have SOME income for groceries & bills. [My spouse has a good, solid job & we have OK savings even after just buying a house, so I’m certainly not as desperate as some of my former coworkers].

  196. Anonymous Caller*

    I feel so guilty.
    Someone at my job site is keeping their dogs locked in their vehicle while at work (they were howling, which is how I noticed them) and I reported it to security. I don’t know who it is–it’s someone in a different building than mine, otherwise I would have talked to that person directly. It’s warm today, and I have no idea if the dogs have access to water. I haven’t seen anyone checking on them either.

    Anyway, it’s illegal to leave an animal unattended in a vehicle where I live, but I feel bad because that person probably believes he/she is taking good care of the dogs by keeping them nearby. And I feel even worse that security might be coming to his/her office–how embarrassing.

    I hope the dogs are okay, the security guard is discreet, and that this doesn’t turn into me begging for help on here next week if it all blows up in my face.

    1. Kathenus*

      Please, please do not feel guilty for looking out for the welfare of another living thing! It’s an amazing human quirk that we feel guilty for acting in a constructive way about something someone else has done. Whether or not the person thinks this is good, it’s not. I hate seeing animals locked in cars, but I can definitely understand that in certain weather having a dog in a car for a brief period (for a short stop at a store on a comfortable fall day, for example) might be fine. But all day at work? No. And in this case it’s illegal, so it’s even more straightforward. You did the right thing. Please keep doing it. No guilt, you should feel good about it. Think about it from the perspective of the animals – you are their voice when they can’t advocate for themselves. You are doing a great thing.

        1. valentine*

          You’d also have been fine to have called animal control or police non-emergency dispatch for advice. Should anyone give you grief, try a “We all want the dogs to be safe” approach. This person could Google pet care and safety. Their neglect and abuse isn’t on you and reporting it is neighborly. Mr. Rogers is proud of you.

  197. This is not Mo*

    Three questions:

    1. Do I have an obligation to notify former managers that I am job hunting if I don’t list them as references? (Given that prospective employers might call anyway?)

    2. How should I handle this if I think a former manager might not be thrilled to hear from or about me?

    3. And the eternal question: Who do I list as a reference if I have few managers from previous jobs (one of whom has declined to be a reference citing length of time since we worked together), no former managers from my current job (they’re all still here), and no trust that current managers wouldn’t tell my boss about my search?

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      1. No.
      2. I don’t know whether I would address it or not — it really depends on the situation, I’ve got a manager like that and I’ve thought about this a lot — until they tell you they want to check references and then say something like “for this job I’m listing X as a reference because Y. I know companies sometimes call former managers even if they’re not listed as references. I wanted to let you know upfront that I didn’t list my former manager at Q because I don’t believe they will give an accurate reference for me because Z. I understand if you do contact them but I believe X will give you a more realistic picture of my past work.” (For example, my Z is “based on things she has said to me about other people who have left the company, which were very different things than my experience working with them.” But, like, more articulate.)

      1. This is not Mo*

        Thanksfor your reply. A further complication is that I had 3 people at the job in question who oversaw my work: April, Claire, and Mary. April was my boss, and is the one who I think might not be thrilled to hear from/about me. (I left on professional terms, but she has openly vindictive towards numerous employees who have departed since then, going so far as to try and sabotage job offers.) Claire was the assistant manager, and she no longer works there, but has agreed to be a reference. Mary, who supervised my day-to-day work, declined to be a reference, citing that it’s been 4 years since we worked together and that I do work that is quite different and much more skilled/specialized now. (I was, let’s say, a llama feeder, and now I am a llama nutritionist.)

        1. Friday afternoon fever*

          Can Claire also comment substantively and hopefully positively on your work? If so, she sounds like an appropriate reference. Are there more Claires at your other past jobs?

          1. This is not Mo*

            Yes, I think Claire will be a good reference. The job with April/Claire/Mary was my first job post-grad school and in my field, so while I do have supervisors from previous jobs, they are almost 10 years old (and the most recent ones are all for work abroad), and in roles that require totally different skills than my current position/positions I’m looking for.

            1. Friday afternoon fever*

              Oh! This is actually excellent to hear because you can absolutely use professors and advisors from grad school as references if they’re recent enough, which it sounds like they are.

  198. If you have a racist colleague...*

    Just venting. I’m getting really sick of my colleague. She basically acts nice but she is super loud and animated, goes on long rants usually once a day, and has many opinions I find repugnant. I’m tired of hearing her rant about trans people, casually drop racist terms, frequently implies that the rights of people with views she doesn’t agree with don’t matter because they are a small minority, and on and on. I’ve tried arguing with her and asking her not to bring these topics up to no avail. I know she is not happy with our company so I’m hoping she leaves at the end of the current contract. I’m finding it hard to keep my mouth shut and not blow up at her.

    1. Agent J*

      Have you or anyone else spoken to her manager or HR about this? I can’t imagine your company being okay with her behavior. (Well, I can but I’m hoping they wouldn’t be.)

    2. Namey McNameface*

      For your own mental health, don’t bother arguing. If she brings it up just stare at her silently, or say “wow” and go back to work.

  199. Simba*

    What is a reasonable amount of time to wait until finding out if time off is approved? In our office people typically request time off 2-4 months in advance, sometimes more. However, we have to wait to see if it is approved until the schedule for that week is posted. When schedules are posted can vary, sometimes it’s only a day in advance, sometimes they are 2 weeks out. I find that not knowing if time off is approved until only 2 weeks or less before I he actual date makes it very difficult to plan things like vacations in advance.
    I previously worked in retail and this was the system that was used. I thought it was just one of those things I had to deal with in retail. But now I work in a more professional office setting, and unlike retail everyone has a set schedule. I have spoken with people who have worked here 10+ years and have been told taking time off is difficult and they end up with a lot of unused PTO.
    How much time does it typically take to find out if time of is approved or denied? Is this something that employees would have a reason to push back on?

    1. CatCat*

      The policy is ridiculous. How are you supposed to make travel arrangements with a system like this? Approvals or denials, imo, should come within a few days of the request. It is definitely something that employees have a reason to push back on. You can’t properly plan your leave in the current system and as a result, people are ending up with unused PTO.

      1. Friday afternoon fever*

        Seconding, this is absurd and something that warrants a group pushback. However if there are people who’ve been there 10+ years do you have the standing to be the one to start that conversation?

  200. Toastedcheese*

    I need advice about how to handle some odd job rejections.
    I work in local government. Recently I’ve applied for two jobs in my field with a neighboring municipality, and both times I got back this form rejection: “We regret to inform you that your application was not forwarded to the hiring department because you did not meet the minimum education and/or experience requirements for this position.”
    The first time, I took the rejection at face value. The second time was today, and I was surprised because I am absolutely qualified for this job based on the job description.
    It’s possible they’re using a misleading form letter to reject applicants. However, it’s also possible their HR department is wrongly rejecting me, perhaps due to my educational credentials. I have an accredited degree from a program that has since lost accreditation. My degree’s accreditation is on my resume *in bold*. However, the job application itself doesn’t have anywhere to indicate accreditation. (Nor did it ask any other questions of the sort that are used to filter candidates.)
    I am thinking about reaching out to the HR department. Normally I would never do this, but if they’ve messed up, it’s possible there’s still time for them to forward my application to the hiring manager.
    What do you all think: should I contact them, or will this just risk annoying them and not being considered for future openings? (Fwiw, I don’t consider this experience a red flag; lame HR departments seem to be sadly common in the public sector.)

    1. CatCat*

      I think you should follow up. Public sector processes can be so odd. I doubt they’re going to blacklist you for a polite inquiry. “I’m confused about the rejection I received because it said I did not meet the minimum education and/or experience requirements. The advertisements said education X is required and experience in Y and Z is required. I meet those requirements. Can you help me understand what happened here?”

      1. Toastedcheese*

        Thanks, CatCat! I just emailed them and adapted your script. I’ve never contacted an HR department about a job rejection so it was hard for me to shift my thinking when they’ve apparently made an error.

  201. Jules the First*

    So a couple of weeks ago I had a fairly rough 1:1 with my most junior staffer, Jane, in which I pointed out that her rate of mistakes has really gone up since she passed her probation and asked her to think about what was causing this and how we can improve it going forward. The following Monday, she asked to meet with me one on one and shared that she found the feedback overly harsh. I’m the first to admit I can be abrupt, so I apologised and offered to tweak my delivery method if there was a different way she’d like to receive feedback. Jane said she’d prefer to get comments in writing, which is no big deal from my perspective, so I said sure as long as she communicates that she’s received and understood the feedback.

    This week, I sent a detailed markup by email for edits that needed to be made to a document she’d been putting together, including a note that a couple of pages I had specifically asked for were not included and asking her to “help me understand why” that happened. She made the changes but never replied to the why, so I made a mental note to bring it up at her 1:1.

    In Jane’s 1:1 this week, I ask her how it’s going and if the written communication is helping. She says yes, but that she’d like to talk about some of the feedback. I say sure and Jane pulls out a copy of my email…which she has rewritten to be “nicer” (and thereby eliminating all the questions I’d asked encouraging her to reflect on the reasons for the errors so we can prevent them in future).

    How do I make it clear to her that I’m happy to give feedback in writing rather than face to face but that rewriting my emails to her is not ok and I’m never going to be ok with giving her corrections without her taking the time to demonstrate that she’s considered and resolved any underlying issues? I’m speechless…

    1. BRR*

      Wow. Assuming you’re actually asking and not just venting I’d give her verbal feedback on this. It’s great to adjust your feedback method if it works better for her but you still might have to lay down the law.

        1. valentine*

          You gave her the controls and she turned the tide back on you. Even now, you’re focused on how to provide feedback (You were doing well!), while what she’s doing wrong (including whitewashing your feedback!) and what she needs to do is fading ever further into the background. Ideally, you would have said your last paragraph in the moment.

          Go back to verbal feedback or to written feedback with verbal follow-up at the next 1-on-1 (with a really short window because she’s using this to drag it out). I can see where she would want time to process if she were a crier, but she wants not to have the feedback, and that’s not on offer. Just because someone experiences x doesn’t mean you dished it out. Think of her as someone who experiences negativity as yelling and tell her the power is hers to reduce that by improving.

    2. Reba*

      That is… bold!

      I’d call another meeting, reiterate that you are happy to tweak methods of sharing feedback, as you have done, but that she has to be able to take direction from you and engage on improvement, even if it is not “nice.” Tell her taking feedback professionally is a requirement of the job, and explain clearly that when you send an email with feedback you expect your questions to get answered (although consider if you really need this every time, I could see it becoming burdensome on both sides). Tell her she is overly focused on the “niceness” or whatever, and not the content of the communication, and that’s got to change.

    3. Approval is optional*

      I’d say your wording in the last paragraph is actually good, if you are prepared to continue with written feedback. I’m not sure I would be, but I’m in a foul mood today so that might be influencing my thoughts on the subject! I’d add something along the lines of, ‘ If you don’t follow the ‘guidelines’ for written feedback I’ve given you from now on, my feedback will be given face to face so that I can get the input I expect from you.’
      I’d also not offer to ‘tweak’ your approach again – it isn’t your approach methinks – she just doesn’t want negative feedback at all.

      1. Approval is optional*

        You might want to make your grammar a little better than mine though – seems foul mood and good sentence structure don’t go hand in hand for me.

    4. animaniactoo*

      “I’m sorry, you seem to misunderstand the nature of the feedback I’m giving you, and what I expect from you in return.

      When I pose those questions to you, they are not rhetorical questions, and they’re not designed to shame or embarrass you. I am happy to communicate them to you by e-mail so that you have time to reflect on them. But I am actually requesting that you provide me with answers to those questions. The reason I’m doing that is it will demonstrate to me that you know what the issue is and will be able to take steps to correct it. If you don’t know the reason for a problem, it’s very unlikely that you can solve it and being able to solve the issue going forward is fundamentally important to your job performance.

      The next time I send you a question to reflect on, I expect to receive an answer. This part is non-negotiable. Do you think that you’ll be able to do that?”

      1. Lilysparrow*

        Yes, if she devoted the time & energy she spent rewriting your feedback into fixing her mistakes, she’d be way ahead.

    5. Ann O.*

      IMHO, you should put her on a PIP or equivalent and mentally prepare to fire her. If you can just fire her, spare yourself the time and just fire her.

      She’s screwing up, and it sounds like she’s screwing up seriously. Rather than take ownership of that and work with you to fix it, she’s tone policing you and trying to convince you that your lack of niceness is the problem. Maybe you can be nicer; maybe you can’t. I don’t work for you, so I don’t know. But it’s not the issue here. The issue is that she’s making seriously mistakes and doesn’t seem to care about it.

      If you want to give her one more chance, you can explain about root cause analysis and the importance of figuring out about the why an error happened so that you can permanently resolve the situation. But based on what you’ve said, I’m not optimistic that anything you do will help.

    6. ..Kat..*

      This might be a good podcast question for Alison, since you are trying to smooth your abruptness/tone. That is easier to get a handle on when talking with you (as compared with the written word).

  202. Phryne Fisher*

    Just got the phone with a recruiter who was SUPER excited to talk to me about my EHR experience. I was also stoked since my current role is sucking the life out of me.

    She says, “We really need someone who can lead us in EHR, blah blah blah.” and tries to sell me on how great the campus is.

    I tell her what my day-to-day responsibilities are.

    Then we realize….. We are not talking about the same EHR. I am definitely not what she’s looking for.

    I feel embarrassed that this mix-up happened.

    1. J*

      Aw, that sucks! But definitely not something to be embarrassed about — afterall, she made the same mistake.

    2. NewNameJustForThisBecause*

      don’t be embarrassed. Recruiters who are not that familiar with the industry often think that all EHRs are the same (no). Even within the one I work with, I am just a SME on one type of user experience…. so my knowing how Elephants use it doesn’t really mean I can help lead the improvements for how chickens might use it. Now my skills could “help” ask the right questions in what to think about, but not in the specifics.
      So depends upon the job….

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        I have no idea what either acronym is, so I can imagine a recruiter getting them confused as well!

  203. Kate H*

    It was a very exciting day in my office today.

    By “exciting day” I mean upper management has been working on a project that they very much wanted complete by the end of the day today. My entire team was out of the office, including my supervisor who usually handles these changes. Our department head had to pass my email on so that they would even know who I was to send me the information. So when the information was compiled and ready–at four o’clock on a Friday afternoon–it fell to me to implement. Our Vice President came to my desk himself to check to see if I was on it and to say that he would really appreciate it getting done ASAP.

    I did my very-panicked best and I think I succeeded beyond a couple of changes that are outside of my control. A mostly rhetorical question: Why do companies think it’s okay to put so much responsibility in the hands of only one person????

  204. anon with no name because I can't think of one to stick with.....*

    Okay so I realize my previous job was toxic because getting screamed at for making a mistake is actually a bad thing…. but on the other hand going a whole year without being screamed at for making a mistake is kind of making my even more anxious… like I’m going to suddenly get fired without any warning because they got fed up with my shit. At least with being screamed at I knew I was in trouble… this is somehow worse…. or maybe I just need to get used to the fact that being screamed at was never appropriate and everyone makes mistakes and what seems like an overly laid back attitude about it is actually normal.

    1. Rick*

      I would consider cognitive behavioral therapy. If that doesn’t work for whatever reason, you can try books on mindfulness, to learn to recognize those harmful imaginings of disaster as just that — imagination.

        1. Rick*

          Yeah I had a boss like that. I knew he just didn’t like me, and everyone I talked to about my experiences with him said he was just being a dick because he could. But after spending 40 hours a week in that environment for a year, it becomes ingrained.

          Seeing a therapist for a couple months, who basically taught me how to realize when I’m just making anxious fantasies of disaster, was a great help.

    2. dovidbawie*

      The second one happened to me once, even after a job involving lots of verbal abuse. Trust me that if they’re that toxic they won’t wait a year. It really does just take a while to adjust to normal, standard, reasonable mindset & expectations after a toxic job.

      1. J*

        Yes!!
        You’d definitely have learned long, long ago if this job was a nightmare environemnt like the last one.

    3. J*

      I had a similar reaction where I simply couldn’t believe I wasn’t going to be called in for over time on an emergency basis. Like surely, I don’t REALLY just get to go home and relax and not have to go back to work, right? Eventually I adjusted. Since it’s been a year, though, I second the endorsement of therapy.

      How often do you recieve feedback on your performance? My guess is not super frequently, because I bet you’d be less anxious if your boss was regularly telling you how you’re doing. IF you don’t have somewhat frequent recurring meetings with your boss, I’d reach out to them and say you wanted feedback on how you’re doing.

      Good luck – I’m glad you escaped the previous toxic job!

    4. Reba*

      There have been some letters before on recovering / resetting norms from a toxic workplace, so have a look in the archives if you haven’t already. Good luck and glad you are in a more laid back place!

    5. Toxic Waste*

      Omg, this is my biggest fear. I fear that the toxicity = normalcy and I will get so used to it that when I’m not in it, I will miss some aspects of it. (Not the getting yelled at part, but the gossip and other stuff.) How long were you at the toxic job? Maybe you need more time to adapt to your new environment. Also, I agree with the other posters- could you ask for feedback or do check-ins with your boss? Echoing others, if it’s an option, you might want to talk to someone because you could still be experiencing some PTSD from previous job.

    6. ..Kat..*

      If you are getting feedback from your boss, good. People are giving good suggestions for calming yourself.

      But, I’m wondering if you are not getting any feedback. If this is the case, ask your boss for a feedback meeting on how you are doing and what can you improve on.

  205. J*

    Hi guys! This ended up being super long so I apologie. Also, if this has been discussed recently, please feel free to point me to that thread. I just started a job where the vast majority of employees in my role are new to the field and new to this type of job, so the expectation is that new hires will undergo 3 to 4 weeks of training. My problem is that my trainer is extremely hard on has expressed serious concerns about my performance, even though by other people’s assesments I’m doing fine or maybe even well.

    I’m someone who’s not always fast at learning new software (just software specifically) — but neither am I deeply incompetent. And I used to work at a software company, and recieved a ton of feedback on how well I did during the training! The details of my current situation: I had a week of classroom training covering general knowledge and basic concepts, during which time my trainer had no complaints with my performance. This week I’ve had 4 days of actually using the software, 2 of which unfortuantely were only half days. Predictably, I learned the most on the longer shifts.

    My trainer says she thinks I should be moving faster and needing less correction at this point, but I reached out to someone who fills her same role in the company (in a different city), and that person says the expectation at her location is that it will take 50 floor hours to train someone, and that for the first several shifts especially they assume the trainee will be extremely slow. I KNOW I can do this job and I’m excited about it, but I’m worried I’ll be terminated next week if I don’t do really, really well on my next shift. That’s actually what the trainer told me: that the next day is my last chance to convince her I can do this.

    To answer some questions that naturally come up: I have a great attitude and have responded cheerfully and thoughtfully to the criticsm. None of my mistakes have been egregious, nor have they indicated that I’m fundimentally unsuited for the job. I’ve been on time, professionally dressed, and always conduct myself pleasantly and professionally, so to answer a question several of my friends have asked: no, I didn’t do anything to irritate or alarm her. I think she may just be someone who doesn’t especially enjoy training others, and who has a hard time understanding that the immense frustration of training new employees (which: it’s so frustrating! New hires are SO slow!) is just inevitable and not the fault of the trainee.

    SO. I’m keeping a positive attitude and strong resolve. I don’t blame myself. I’m working not to feel put upon. But MAN, I would really, really appreciate any and all tips on things I can do to improve this situation. If anyone’s dealt with this, did you find any effective strategies for minimizing damage/convincing the other person that you weren’t inept?

    Thank you so much for any comments!

    1. Ktelzbeth*

      I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. I don’t know if I have any useful advice, since I don’t know how fast anyone should learn software and it’s probably a huge range depending on the software. But to me, 3 days (two full and two half over four calendar days, you said) doesn’t seem like a lot to master anything more than basic functions. I’d try to get a clearer explanation from her of what you are doing wrong and what needs to be different. Just plain faster is pretty vague. How fast? How many corrections? Is there any specific and actionable advice to meet these goals? People work at all different speeds and fast is relative (also not always the best measure of quality). You might also look at the comments in response to #4 question of the post immediately before this one today. The situation is different, but it’s also about training and what to do when you realize you haven’t gotten something. Good luck!

      1. valentine*

        Do you not have a supervisor or someone who can tell you the expectations? They should’ve told you if you have a probationary period, how long the 50 hours usually takes, and what you’ll be expected to know and do at various benchmarks. If your trainer is your only contact, maybe it’s time to go above or around her, as she’s said your job’s in jeopardy.

    2. ..Kat..*

      I recommend doing your best for the final two weeks of training and just keep reminding yourself that she is unrealistic. Don’t argue with her, that is just going to make things worse. Do ask if she has any suggestions for improving. In two weeks, you will be done with your training and be with people who have realistic expectations.

  206. Junior Dev*

    How do you get someone to explain their work is when they keep interrupting with self-deprecating comments?

    My coworker has some files online that are scripts that get run on a cron job. They’re not very organized and there’s no version control. Not ideal but not the end of the world either.

    She’s going on leave in a few weeks and I’m trying to get her to explain the files to me so I can fix them if they break. She can barely get through a sentence without muttering something like “this is so bad, I’m sorry,” “I’m so bad at this,” “I can’t code.” (She clearly can write code, it’s running and doing important things, but it’s not “pretty” in the way a lot of software engineers want it to be. I don’t personally care so long as it works.) If I ask how she’s done things in the past she’ll get really embarrassed and judgemental–e.g. I’ll ask how she’s been getting files onto the server and she says “I cheated”–which, 1) no one is keeping score here and 2) tells me absolutely zero information about what she actually did!

    There’s some technical challenges to getting version control set up which I’d normally be fine working through with her but it makes me very uncomfortable to hear this self-deprecation (especially since there are whole realms of IT she knows more about than me!) and it’s really distracting to try to keep her focused while also solving hard technical problems and discussing with her the various approaches to take.

    I’m talking with a different coworker on Monday about what is the best technical approach so I can come to her with a finished plan, but I am wondering how to handle these comments that I actually find really distracting and kind of upsetting. Our boss knows and says she’s working on it.

    How do I cut short the constant stream of self-criticism and just get stuff done??? I want to be compassionate and I’m pretty good at dealing with this behavior in beginners when I teach classes but in this case I need both sophisticated information and cooperation out of her and I’m finding it surprisingly difficult.

    1. animaniactoo*

      “Listen, I understand it’s not pretty – but it gets the job done, and right now that’s the more important thing. Can we both just acknowledge that it’s not pretty but it’s functional, and move on to covering what I need to know to cover for you? FWIW, it’s pretty hard to hear you beat yourself up like this when I KNOW there are areas where you know a ton more than I do, so I know you’re not an incompetent boob. If you did it this way, I trust there’s a reason why it’s this way right now.”

    2. Reba*

      You could try having a “reset” conversation at the start of your next meeting on this. Maybe like… “Hey, the last few times we’ve talked, I got the sense that you are uncomfortable with the work you’ve done or don’t want to talk about it. You might not have realized, but you were saying something negative or emotional about your work in every other sentence. Please know that I’m not attacking you and am just trying to learn from you! (Optional ‘Nobody’s perfect’ brief personal story of embarrassing code thing) I would really appreciate it if you could try to keep to the technical stuff in this meeting, it will go much faster and be less stressful for us both.”

      I have some friends and professional acquaintances like this, it can be really hard. You feel for the person, but can also get frustrated so quickly. Good luck!

  207. Rob*

    So at my new, government job, there is an older man who goes around hassling the younger workers constantly. If you’re a younger person, he’ll go over to your desk and start cracking jokes about how he’s not disrupting your work. Headphones on? He’ll say millennials shouldn’t be allowed to listen to music at work. He says he’s joking, but it’s pretty obvious he’s very bitter and trying to mask it. One time, he admitted he doesn’t like younger people because he has to financially support his son.

    He’s also tried to corner me in the halls and the bathroom with his “millennials are lazy and don’t work, and they’re making me work longer because none of them will buy my house so I can retire and move to Florida!” rant. He’s just a bitter old man hanging on to the one way he can exert control. The guy is unavoidable and insufferable (he’s apparently like 14 months from retirement), because he’s been around so long, no one wants to go through the process of firing him, so he can just walk the halls to bother people. It’s a daily thing, and I’m getting real tired of it.

    The kicker? He’s in HR.

    Who do I go to? His boss?

    1. Rob*

      Missed something in the first paragraph. It should say “If you’re a younger person, he’ll go over to your desk and start cracking jokes about how he’s not disrupting your work, because millennials don’t work.”

      1. animaniactoo*

        “Actually, I am working, and you are disrupting my work. Is there something you need? Because otherwise I really need to focus on this.” Calmly, and firmly.

        Band together with your other millennials and create stock phrases that you can professionally deliver to all the crap he says like this so that you can all be handing him back the same attitude.

    2. Reba*

      Ugh. I’d make sure you have made a good effort to shut this down on your own (at least as far as him interacting with you specifically, I very much doubt you’ll get him to totally knock it off). Grey rocking it or even saying “I will not have conversations on this topic” and meaning it. Then because he will probably not let it go, go to his boss to make sure they know he’s harassing people. They may already know, but you’ll be able to say what you’ve tried. It seems likely nothing will change, but you never know!

    3. animaniactoo*

      Absolutely his boss. And for back to him directly: “Listen, I would LOVE to be in a position to buy a house. But I did not decide to make school so much more expensive than it was when you were starting out, and I didn’t decide to keep wages so low that the cost of living outpaced salary increases by a ton. I am REALLY tired of being called lazy or worthless because I can’t buy what you could when you were my age. I’m actually QUITE BITTER that I and others in my generation have to deal with so much more starting out debt than YOUR generation ever did and it will take me so long to be able to afford a house. Despite the fact that I am here in what is actually quite a good job.”

      2. Rob*

        Everything you’ve said is correct. BUT, I’m very wary about getting into a dialogue with him. Because he’s in HR and already has some weird complex about millennials, but also because I don’t want to be in a situation where onlookers can think I’m haranguing some little old man. I’m the one who’s new here.

    4. Anoncorporate*

      Seriously….*rolls eyes*

      And I know this isnt the main point, but his logic that he can’t retire because millennials don’t work makes no sense. It’s the other way around – millennials have trouble getting jobs because people dont retire, though I assume he’s talking abouth his son.

        1. Is my boss here?*

          Boo, I keep making the same mistake. Last try:

          “mentally starts party list with champagne, hot wings, and marking the calendar for 14 months and one day from now.”

    6. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      What happens if you look him in the eye and say “are you calling me lazy, Fergus? What specifically makes you say that?”

      1. Rob*

        Whenever you talk back to him he’ll go off on how he’s joking, everyone else thinks he’s funny and people are telling him he should go into standup, in keeping with his thesis of “I’m great, and all these millennials are making my life worse.”

        To be honest I’m reluctant to say anything more than “Can you stop? I’m trying to work” to him, because he’s in HR.

        1. Junior Dev*

          What happens when you say that?

          Maybe something like “can I help you?” in response to his routine. Be a broken record s couple times, and if he keeps it up switch to “can I help you with something work related?”

          I would try some of these strategies for s while and go to his boss if they don’t work or he gets nasty. I would also talk to your boss and ask for advice on how to deal with it, emphasizing that he is interrupting your work and making it hard to get things done.

          I mean this in the general sense, not that it’s legally actionable (it’s probably not): what he’s doing is harassment and discrimination and it’s not ok. Whether you have any recourse depends on your office culture (and if you have a union, how it’s structured). But it’s really not ok.

        2. ..Kat..*

          Sounds like you need to say! “I’m working.” And just turn away. Don’t engage. He wants that. Don’t say “can you stop?” That makes it sound optional.

          Have you talked to your manager about how Fergus is interfering with your productivity?

          1. valentine*

            Is there no one else in HR you can talk to about this? If someone with the power to fire him says he’s retiring, ask what happens if he doesn’t. Why would this guy leave his captive audience? When he says standup, what if you say, “Yeah, go do that,” and have that conversation every single time, using the same words? Will he get bored of you or is he tireless? Is it time for an anti-cat motion-sensor water spray?

            1. Rob*

              What I usually say, if I respond at all, is “I have work to do” and put my headphones on. That’s what I do if I’m at my desk. If he tries to hassle me in the halls or in the bathroom I just ignore him and keep going. He will actually continue to rant at you for a couple of minutes if he catches you at your desk — but not in the bathroom because he’d look like a wacko.

              I know it’s somewhat against the AAM rules to speculate on people’s mental health or home lives, but it seems like a good guess to say that his home life is unhappy and he feels like he has little control over it. That’s what the stuff he says about his son seems to indicate. So to compensate, he’s nasty to his captive audience at work, where he’s got a very long tenure (making it less likely he’ll be fired) and hassling younger people, who don’t know the best way to handle it yet.

              Monday morning I’m looking at the org chart, finding his boss, and contacting the boss. I’m going to make a documented log of every interaction I’ve had with him to the best of my recollection, like “on Friday the 10th at 9:53, Ted came to my desk and said that I need to stop pretending to work. I told him I am working and that he is distracting me. His response was to call me a liar, and start talking about how millennials are making the office worse.”

              On your point about what happens if his boss says that we need to wait until he retires, I think that’s a good point. Also, what if people in the office simply don’t want some guy trying to antagonize them on a daily basis for the next X months? I don’t know how it is in other places, but in my part of the USA government jobs have such a reputation that most people would believe an interviewee who said “I’m looking because my current job has this guy who didn’t do any work and went around the office hassling people he decided he didn’t like. Because he’d been there for like 22 years he was unfireable.”

  208. Lemonsaide*

    I work in a leadership role at a very small marketing agency. Our agency has the lucky problem of huge volumes of business and we’re scaling in a smart, sustainable way. Still- we are extremely busy and I manage a significant client load. I also just found out I’m pregnant and am due right as our highest peak season ends (when tons of client reporting, admin cleanup and strategy for next year starts).

    My boss is a kind, smart and supportive woman (with no kids, same as the rest of my coworkers) so I worry very little about retaliation.

    However, I know my maternity leave is going to have a big impact on business. How do I roll this news out to my boss? I’m planning to tell her at the same time as my annual review, after we cover salary increase and improved title. Is this a mistake?

    1. Agent J*

      When is your annual review and how close is it to your planned maternity leave date/beginning of your peak season?

        1. Agent J*

          I think your plan works. It’s plenty of notice for your employer without it influencing your salary increase and improved title. If you want to wait until the salary increase and new title are in effect (I get a little paranoid), I think that’s okay too.

        2. animaniactoo*

          Paranoia makes me say – wait until the salary increase and improved title have gone through (assuming that it’s within a month of the annual review). That should put you just before peak season (and past first trimester, which is ENTIRELY logical to not say a word before safely out of the first trimester), and then you can approach it as “Something else we need to hammer out before we spring into peak season, I have good news, but it comes with a side of bad timing.” and then address it as creating a plan around the post-peak season stuff and how to be on top of the fact that you won’t be around to fully debrief and strategize.

          1. Lemonsaide*

            Ugh, you’re both right. Great boss or no, I should wait until the salary/title stuff is finalized to announce.

  210. Wondering One*

    You know you have a healthy workplace and a “right fit” when…..

    Just curious how others would fill in the blank.

    For me, I know I have a healthy workplace and “right fit” when….. I hear my co-workers laugh down the hall and it makes me smile. Especially in a fairly quiet environment normally. It makes me smile and sometimes giggle. I appreciate their great laughs and sense of humor.

    There’s so much more I could write but just wanted to say I longed for this environment most of my adult working years. Over the past four plus years management made a few changes to an already great place to work that made it seriously the healthiest, happiest work place I’ve ever worked.

    I still have a decade + before I can retire and at this point don’t see myself leaving this employer until then.

    1. Anoncorporate*

      Ooh tell me more about this!

      I think my workplace would be ideal if management were better. My managers suck, but I genuinely LOVE my coworkers. We have really good camraderie and genuinely look out for one another. There is no ego – no one is trying to get a leg up over someone else or being competitive. You actually see this play out in the face of bad management – whenever someone unfairly gets thrown under the bus, everyone rallies to defend that person. I’ve had it done to me, and done the same for my coworkers. I am job hunting currently, but I will really miss them when I leave!

      1. Wondering One*

        It sounds like you and your coworkers should rally around and have the manager(s) removed. Not gang up on but maybe someone in the higher position needs to be filled in on the situation.

        Sometimes good workplaces thrive in spite of the one or two people who make the problems. Still, you probably have no clue how much that one person or management style is holding the whole business/group/organization back from doing truly great things.

        For us, we blossomed as a group once upper management removed our old manager and the replacement allowed us to grow. Old manager, though a nice person, tried to keep us small and was very old school. Old manager refused to really “manage” and hadn’t worked a 40 hour work week for ages. Old manager was afraid to discipline and became cantankerous with upper management. So much so an offer of retirement over termination was extended. Old manager retired and things really started turning around.

        New manager appreciates us and challenges us when necessary. We are teams within a team. Every task and every one has a “backup” and no one is guilt tripped if back up is needed. For once I am on a team where like you say ego takes a back seat.

        I don’t want to write too much on AAM as to not make us identifiable but some of my co-workers are gaining national respect and are sought out for their expertise. It’s very cool and very exciting.

        We are over half way into year three with new manager and really good things are increasing in frequency. A lot of hard work and effort has gone into making these great things occur. Yet, having such a great team or teams within teams, no one is burnt out. Everyone contributes and everyone is receiving the fruits of their efforts.

        Higher-ups have been very appreciative as of late and recognition for our hard work has been rewarded on multiple levels. Being rewarded as individuals and as teams are equally exciting. It feels a lot of like we are beginning something new and exciting. Moving into a new chapter or phase. I could go on and on….

        1. Anoncorporate*

          I would love to do this and have considered it. I have to think about it more. The problem is she is well liked by grandboss and other senior personnel (she has a superficially nice personality) and I’m not sure we can convince them. Though my manager is dumb (to be quite blunt), she looks good because our team collectively does very good quality work. Our intellectual leadership is thanks to the senior members of our team, but my manager gets all the credit for it because she is the manager. She took full credit for one of my ideas to streamline our projects. Our grandboss thinks that our success is due to her “wonderful leadership”.

          1. Wondering One*

            Ugh. I can’t say ’cause I’m not there but you are probably excelling in spite of her, not because of her “wonderful leadership”.

            I wish you luck!

  211. Skeetpea*

    Just being cranky about my boss. We had a little reorg and I ended up with a new supervisor about a year and a half ago. One thing she keeps saying is, “you’re a senior person, you should be able to make these decisions yourself,” but I’ve been chewed out for making decisions differently than she would.

    I received my first ever “not satisfactory” rating in the latest annual review, and a 0% raise, based mostly on two incidents. In one, I did delay longer than I should have, but I also concluded early that we just had the wrong equipment and no one came out and said, “we’re using that equipment anyway, just live with it.” (Yes, I should have pushed it, and found out faster, and proceeded.)

    In the other, she blamed me for slow progress (it was tough to get any info out of the customers, much less the info I needed), not handing it off (I did, and he handed it right back), and needing to be prodded to set up a meeting (the hand-right-back guy had already suggested it, and I’d earlier solicited help from other experts).

    In two years I’ve gone from close-to-promotion to not-satisfactory. Mentally, I’m oscillating between going back to quietly being successful doing what I do well, and saying “fuck it” and checking out. Mostly the former, fortunately. Grumble.

    1. SophieChotek*

      That sounds hard – and it is so frustrating to have managers that yell at your for not being proactive, but then yell at you when you are, because they did not like your decisions!

    2. Is my boss here?*

      You aren’t grumbling. I’ve been getting this kind of crap from my boss for years & it’s a major reason among other major reasons I’m job hunting.
      “Why did you do this?”
      “You told me to/it’s been part of my job before.” “I didn’t say that/You shouldn’t have done that/Chew chew chew you out.”
      OR
      “You never did this” in tone that says I fell down on my job.
      “I tried but you stopped me/blamed me/thinking: since when it that my job when Sansa always did it, and if it’s mine now why didn’t you tell me?”
      “You should’ve done it anyway/blaming you for not doing it/why does Sansa have to do everything?”

      It’s classic abuse. And a sign of terrible, incapable, and/or insecure manager. So sad there are so darn many of them.

  212. Hannah Banana*

    Hopefully I’m not too late to the party – I’d love help talking to my boss.

    Jane is very overworked right now and she has a tendency to snap quickly (and over nothing) which is what makes this difficult for me. The last several days we haven’t had any unexpected absences (AKA sick call outs) and each day she’s sent an e-mail praising us for not having any call outs.

    I’ve spoken to a few of my coworkers and they feel the same way I do — Jane is basically sending the message that we shouldn’t be taking sick time.

    I really want to say something to her, but I’m struggling with finding the words that won’t piss her off while still getting my message across. I’m kinda thinking something along the lines of “I agree that it’s awesome everyone on the team is in good health, but….?????” I don’t know, something about how we’re human and sometimes humans get sick; it’s part of the life experience and we shouldn’t feel guilty?

    Help?!

    1. animaniactoo*

      Your goal can’t be not pissing her off. There’s a limit to how much you can control – so you can tailor the message as best you can – but the goal is getting the message across whether it pisses her off or not.

      Honestly, I would start at the fact that it’s hard to bring up issues with her because she has a tendency to snap lately and while you understand the stress that she’s under, it makes it hard to communicate with her.

      Then you might be able to segue that into “Speaking of stress, I know that you’re counting on us and even one of us being out would be a major impact on the workload right now. I’m not sure you realize the impression the repeated e-mails praising everyone for not being sick and calling out is giving – I would REALLY hate to be the first person who gets sick and has to call out. It’s going to make me feel extremely guilty about something I have no control over – other than to come to work anyway and drip all over everybody else and make them sick too.”

      If that pisses her off – “I’m sorry, I thought it was worth mentioning. I’ll get back to [whatever] now.” But unless she’s the type to be retaliatory, being polite and professional with a dose of compassion and understanding is the best you can do as far as delivering the message. If she IS the type to be retaliatory, you’re better off saying nothing and just re-affirming to each other that being sick happens and it’s just lucky that nobody has yet and if you get sick, please don’t come in and sneeze on me.

  213. Is my boss here?*

    My boss has been verbally abusive and even insulting since I came to work for this place a few years ago. Once she even berated me for “taking that.” Leaving wasn’t much of an option until recently, and now I’m looking for real at a steady pace. I’ve confided in a couple of managers–people I know from previous positions at the company who keep my confidences and aren’t in my current line of management. They both urged me to go to my boss’s boss and tell him what I’ve experienced. I always demurred, saying it’s dangerous to go over your boss’s head. But I’m considering doing that when I give notice, or typing all my notes and giving them to HR when I go. Would this accomplish anything?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Without knowing more about HR at your company or your grandboss, the best answer possible is “maybe”.

      Maybe they’ll be good, horrified, and effective. And maybe they’ll be inured to a lot of stuff and not willing to tackle it and take it on.

      So… how much do you know about your grandboss and HR at your company? Can you ask the other managers who urged you to go over your bosses head what their sense is of whether it will actually make a difference with your grandboss and would grandboss be spurred to act? Would HR take your notes and do anything with them, or would they be more likely to file them and label you as “ineligible for re-hire”?

      1. Is my boss here?*

        Previous grandboss left very mysteriously about a year ago. I met current grandboss (as in “Hello, Xalkaniol, I’m glad to meet you” on his way into a meeting) when he came to our local office recently from the regional. I’ve been told he’s a great guy and will listen. HR is at HQ and they’ve had a lot of staff and leadership changes in recent years but the long-time employee advocate is still there, and another person recommended that I go to the EA.

        Thank you for posting, you bring up considerations I hadn’t thought about.

  214. Smeagol wants his precious*

    About two years ago, I left a job under somewhat acrimonious circumstances. In all of my reviews, my work received high marks, but I was always derided for not being the most agreeable person to work with. I did try to avoid certain people with a 10 ft pole as much as possible, but I also wasn’t the most pleasant co-worker at times. I loved the job and the company, but clearly both the company and I needed a change.

    Now, I’ve been job hunting for two months, and two different people have come and gone from the role in the interim. Should I even put my name in the ring, and how do I best answer the inevitable question of why I should be hired given that it’s been basically radio silence between the company and me since then?

    1. Agent J*

      Has anything changed about the job or the company since you’ve left? If not, you may run into the same issues as before.

      1. valentine*

        Don’t go back there. It’s natural to want a do-over or to create a more positive end to the story, but the positive end is you left and can keep moving forward.

    2. Forking great username*

      Unless the company has gone through some extremely drastic change since your departure, I really can’t insgine this working. If you and they both know your departure was unpleasant, it seems like it would make more sense for them to keep searching for a candidate that’s a better fit – and same for you, but with a company that’s a better fit. I imagine right now you’re probably just wanting a job period since it’s been a couple of months, but I don’t know any way that you could realistically address their concerns here if you were to get an interview for your old position.

      1. Smeagol wants his precious*

        From talking to someone I know who works there (I knew him well before he joined), there’s been a lot of turnover, but I don’t know if that has extended to the upper echelons.

        I need something, as I got laid off three weeks before Christmas and Smeagol and Mrs Smeagol will be welcoming a precious at the end of March.

        Given the turnover the position has had (I’m pretty sure I’ve had the longest tenure in the role in two decades), I doubt they’d find anyone better suited.

  215. Is my boss here?*

    Two people have come and gone in the 2 years you’ve been gone? A wise manager once told me, if a job keeps coming vacant, the problem is the manager, not the employees. Even if you love the company and the job, a crummy manager can offset all that.

  217. I'd rather be snuggling my cat*

    Oh! And here I was thinking that I was too late and that no one was going to see this. Please feel free – any advice is so, so welcome. Thank you, Alison :)

      1. I'd rather be snuggling my cat*

        I’m always in awe of how hard you work to help us out. You are a gem! Thank you again, and have a fabulous weekend of snuggling your cats, too. (If only my boyfriend let me crowd our apartment with more…)

  218. TechWorker*

    Currently in the US for the first time for work. All going well though had some hotel difficulties (first one was undergoing renovation, so moved at short notice somewhere else, which is fine but bar only opens during the week..?) and mostly terrible food so far >.<

    Work related issue is that a manager today said something along the lines of ‘you know we’re all working Sunday’s at the moment right?’ & it was so so difficult to know sarcasm or lack of. Certainly some folk have been ‘requested’ to work sundays but I have basically no motivation for it (& my mgrs back in the U.K. would def not expect us to). To be honest there’s so little to do around here that I wouldn’t mind doing *some* work at the weekend but if I do I would 100% rather do it from my hotel room than from the office. Is this normal..??

    1. MissDisplaced*

      It’s hard to say if it’s “normal” as this depends so much on your industry. But on the whole, employees in the US are probably expected to do more overtime than our European counterparts.

      As you’re new, I would have a chat with the manager and ask what the overtime/ weekend work expectations are. Is it voluntary or scheduled in some manner. In some workplaces, this can really be an unspoken rule that you work.

      1. TechWorker*

        So I probably explained badly – I’m out here on a business trip for a few weeks, not permanently. From talking to my manager it’s unfortunately a ‘requested’ thing from the folks out here. I’m massively not keen to do it (the manager that mentioned it to us is nowhere near my management line, if the director who wanted us to come says he wants us in that might be different). If I’m working on a Sunday no way I’m doing it from the office (and genuinely being mandated to work Sunday’s is something I’d consider quitting over). In the meantime I’ll just try to pretend we didn’t know folk here are doing it and maybe send an email or two tomorrow to make it look like I’m vaguely around.

        You may well be right that overtime is more common in the US than Europe – but tbh here the office is empty by 6 – Personally I’d much rather work some extra hours during the week (& often do) than come into the office on a Sunday.

  219. Forking great username*

    I ended up with the week off work due to the polar vortex. It was nice to have some extra time to get the house in order and spend time with my kids (well, that was nice for awhile – now they have major cabin fever and are driving me a bit nuts, to be honest), but I’m pretty stressed about what this upcoming week is going to look like. I’m going to have to cram a bunch of lessons together to make them all fit in next week – and I’m being observed and evaluated on Tuesday. It’s my first year in the education field after a career change, so I’m used to more office type of evaluations. Now instead I get my boss literally sitting there just watching me work for an hour. Totally how it’s done in this field…but ahhh,
    I’m nervous!

    I suppose on the plus side, my school apparently can not afford to be picky. There are only two teachers that cover my subject at the high school level (core class – it’s just a small school.) When I was hired the other teacher in the department wasn’t certified but that was supposed to be happening soon. That ended up falling through, and someone new just started this week…but they’re also not formally certified yet. I was asked to go over our department curriculum and such with them last week, which was not great since it’s my first year and no one has ever gone over the curriculum with me! I have a pacing guide, but that’s it. So I’m doing a weird combo of “fake it till you make it” while occasionally reminding coworkers in other departments and admin that I haven’t actually received any training on XYZ yet. For the time being I really just need his evaluation to go well!

    1. Forking great username*

      And before anyone asks, yes, I am trying to get out! Switching schools mid-year is difficult, but I had one interview recently that went well. They already had someone in mind for the position who currently works in their district, but they said I was a very close second pick, and they asked if they can contact me next time they have an opening and advance me straight to the second round of interviews. So that’s something!

    2. Parenthetically*

      Classroom evals are SO nerve-wracking. I never got used to them even after 10 years. There’s so much context to everything that happens in a class that a principal just can’t fully know about!

    3. Luisa*

      You have my sympathies! Dealing with the revolving door of unqualified teachers in my department is legitimately the worst part of my job. In the past 3 years we’ve turned over every position at least once, and also had three maternity leaves. (Which, fine; the part that’s frustrating to me is when I spend the first half of the year coaching a new teacher, and the second half of the year coaching her long-term sub.)

      Good luck with your search. I assume hiring season has already started (or will begin shortly?) where you are?

  220. Deanna Troi*

    Probably too late for anyone to see/respond to this but anyway… I’m applying for jobs for the first time out of university, and currently in the reference check stage for one (the hiring process has gone on for a few months so far). They asked for references a bit over a week ago and I still haven’t heard anything; should I assume they’re not interested anymore, or is this a normal amount of time to wait?

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      One thing I have learned through reading this blog is that time scales vary wildly on these things. I’d try to put it out of your mind as much as possible. It could mean they weren’t interested, but it could mean that some other delay happened.

    2. acmx*

      They may not have heard back from all of your references. I’d give it more time but still, try to put it out of your mind.

      Good luck!

  221. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

    A bit late, but how do you handle applying for a job that you might turn down if you’re offered it?

    I’m currently on a contract that ends on February 22. There’s another job that has a closing date two days later. So far I have been offered an extension every time in my current job but I don’t like to count on that. But so far it seems that I have a decent chance of staying employed with my current company and they seem to like me, so I might have a decent chance of getting promoted if I stay with them.

    The other job is only offering a two month contract right now. I have previously worked for them and was not given a contract extension, so I am definitely not counting on getting more than two months of work if I do go there. One significant professional advantage, though, is that I would be learning to use a new technology, and I was previously asked to apply for a job on this project due to some of my interests (but I ultimately didn’t get it). So moving to this other company might help me get in with this technology going forward.

    It’s very common in this field to just call a company up and ask if they have any work. If my current contract ends I’m pretty sure I could contact the person who had invited me to apply before and get a job on the project that is currently being advertised. So my dilemma is whether I should submit a formal application and risk the awkwardness of then turning down an offer, or just wait and see what happens with my current contract and go for the more informal route of calling them up if my job ends.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Don’t know if you’re still reading, but to me, the beauty of a formal application is that you *can* turn it down if you’re offered. I’d feel more awkward about doing that if I’d gone with the informal route and just called to ask for work.

  222. Pinkie Death Head*

    My husband was laid off from work a few weeks ago. It was due to the project he was working on and not due to any performance issues. In my entire time knowing him, he has never been unemployed and his company gave him a generous severance package. But I don’t know how to best support him in this. He is bored, depressed, angry, etc., all reasonable responses considering what was going. Growing up, my parents employment was always precarious so this has brought up a whole lot of anxiety for me. Coincidentally, while this has happened, my job has been erupting in multiple crises, taking a lot of energy that I wanted to give to him to keep myself able to work. But, now that my job (pleaseohplease) is getting back to normal-ish, and his initial shock is wearing off, what suggestions can you all share with me about how to be a supportive spouse and partner while he is deciding what to do next? Thanks, all!

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I’ve been laid-off a few times. Best I can say is allow a short reasonable time for him to wallow, but then begin the hunt ASAP. It’s also good to volunteer during the job search to get time away from the computer.

      1. valentine*

        Leave the job search to him and point him to venting audiences. Don’t be the cruise director or therapist. Create a space for the search or have it somewhere like a dining table. Don’t let it take over the main living space.

      1. Pinkie Death Head*

        He has severance and will be applying for unemployment. Oddly, money is the least of my concerns. I’ve never had a job where severance was a possibility. I just want to help him balance his emotions and his need to recover from this blow while helping him stay motivated to move forward.

  223. CJ*

    I’m just about to watch Dr Chris pet vet, and the featured dogs name is Fergus. I instantly thought of this blog.

  224. Anon for this*

    I work for a non-profit that’s very dysfunctional. I thought I could last a full year, but I’ve been so stressed out that it’s started affecting me physically, so I handed in my resignation. I gave a generous full month when the standard in my country is 2 weeks because it’s hard position to fill, and not even a week later I’m getting told by the administration that the discrepancy of about $260 in the budget for my department that I noticed (and immediately reported) over a month ago is my responsibility to pay back, with a heavy dose of hinting that they believe I stole that money from the organization. They didn’t flat out accuse me, more like ‘Well, SOMEONE took it’ comments and emails. Should I get in touch with a lawyer?

    1. Rick Tq*

      Yes, immediately! I’d push back HARD on the demand for repayment, to the point of getting said lawyer to write a polite letter that your final check should be complete, not short $260 or there will be Consequences…

      Unless they can prove you stole the money you have no responsibility to repay it. The whole attitude is insane there, I’d think administration WANTS people to identify accounting problems, not ignore them so they don’t get blamed.

      You also might consider cutting your notice back to 2 weeks just to get away from the crazy.

      1. Anon for this*

        I just got an email from a colleague who has been there just over a year, and he must’ve been getting the same types of comments/messages because he just emailed me and said not to worry about the missing money, he’s going to repay it himself. So… not my monkeys, not my circus anymore, I guess?
        I feel bad for the guy though, I really doubt he took anything.

        1. valentine*

          Do not replace the stolen money. Do not reply to the emails. Do not discuss the money again outside the presence of your lawyer. Hire a lawyer. Ask them if you should leave immediately and whether it’s legal to keep copies of those emails, including the one from the colleague who claims he’ll pay. Proceed as though he’s lying as part of this attempt to trap you. Do not sign anything. If they give you something to sign, give them your lawyer’s contact info or say you need a copy to give to them. Refuse to discuss. You are free to leave at any time.

          1. Anon for this*

            Yup, I came in to work today and there is a budget transfer form with one amount written down, but considerably less cash in the box than there’s supposed to be. There’s something fishy going on. Contacting a lawyer first thing tomorrow. (I did not sign the transfer form.)

    2. ..Kat..*

      If you have proof of your notifying them (like an email), save a copy at home. Also a copy of their blaming email.

  225. Amethyst*

    First time commenter here.

    I got laid off on 11/9. I was blindsided as I loved the job I had (behind the scenes medical billing). I’ve submitted well over 50 applications since & haven’t received an interview yet & am getting nervous. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime? I’ve been checking Indeed, my former employer’s career site, googling “ZIP CODE jobs”, done the same for Facebook, & joined my state’s unemployment job board (which is nigh on a waste of time as every single listing there is from the National Labor Exchange or identical postings from Indeed).

    I’ve updated my resume, updated my Linked In profile… I don’t know what else to do. It’s beginning to be really demoralizing. Thoughts?

    1. SaaSyPaaS*

      Have you looked into temp agencies? I know a lot of people who have had luck with temp agencies, both with finding temporary work and landing a temp-to-hire position. Also, if you’re not using LinkedIn, you should. When I was looking for a new position, I had some companies reach out to me via LinkedIn with job opportunities in my industry.

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      If you’re not getting any interviews, take another look at your resume and cover letter as well as how well matched you are to the jobs you apply for (skills and experience)

      1. Amethyst*

        I took your advice & contacted my former coworker & asked her to look at my resume. She took it one step further & had her sister, who’s the HR director for her company, to do that. I now have a brand new resume thanks to those two women. :)

    3. LadyGrey*

      If you’re getting bored of searching, you can set up Google Jobs to send you alerts, by location, job type or search phrase.
      It might be worth volunteering in a way relating to what you want to do?
      And check over your cover letter, if you aren’t getting interviews- there’s some brilliant advice here on that, and examples.
      Good luck!
      ,

      1. Amethyst*

        I have been. There are none, unfortunately. My former company is notoriously difficult to get into (I’ve applied for 4 different spots & have been almost immediately rejected each time). I have been told by my former boss that as soon as a position opens up in my former company, she’ll be pulling me back in. But when that’ll be, I don’t know. Y’know?

        All of my previous positions have been in retail. For medical reasons, I can no longer do that work. I’ve reached out to others, but haven’t heard of any yet.

  226. Dishwasher dilemma*

    Do I have to send my boss a resignation letter if I work as a dishwasher in a small business? She’s also asking for a months notice, but a couple of my coworkers have only given 2 weeks notice and there doesn’t seem to be an issue. My boss is on vacation right now too, should I wait until she comes back. Should I print a letter out, or is it better to email her? Any advice you guys have is appreciated!

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      Tell her in person if possible and if you can wait until after her vacation, do so.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Tell her you are giving two weeks notice. If she balks, let her know that this is the standard notice period. If she presses, “I’m sorry, that’s not possible.” Don’t give reasons. That just gives her something to argue with.

  227. 653-CXK*

    AAM hive mind…I have a few questions!

    I applied for a job a few weeks ago and had a 45 minute phone interview with the hiring manager. The position is southeast of where I live, has a good reputation, and is close to what I used to do at ExJob (with extra responsibilities and far better pay).

    Yesterday, two separate recruiters contacted me…with the exact job I had applied for. I told both of them I applied directly to the company.

    Question #1: Is having a long phone interview a good sign? We discussed a lot of things and we seem to be on the same page. This upcoming interview will be an hour with the hiring manager and her assistant and a half hour with another manager.

    Question #2: Did I burn a bridge by telling the recruiter(s) I had applied and never contact me again? I know they get a fee if I get hired, but I applied well before they got word of it.

    I’ll keep you all updated with the results…

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      1) the second interview is a good sign, congratulations. I wouldn’t read much into the length of the call

      2) no

  228. Nonsensical*

    So I am not sure how to handle this. Back before Christmas break, a mutual project that we developed a process for and I helped streamline it. We were both expected to keep running the project but he basically took 3 of the tickets, did the IT security part of the review and then left the part of actually contacting the customer, putting in the request that actually implment it and updating the entry to me. So he gets full credit in the ticket in his name but spent 5 minutes, i was out for 2 days straight. I went to his manager to ask about it an she said he be doing hi own work.

    He is considered a high performer but I’ve noticed if it doesn’t hold his interest, he is extremely lazy. He is not tracking the ones he approves. The whole process takes maybe 15 minutes, there is nothing to be gained by splitting it. In fact, he messaged me after iI came back from being out for 3 days. He asked if I read the email, I aid I had. He asked if I would have time to finish them today and I said no.

    He honestly seemed shocked at the idea that I would be busy. Our manager still ha no idea why he split it up like that, he was never told to. I thought it was because he was busy last time. But this time after I told him I was busy, only then, did he ask for the link and documentation how to do it. This proves to me that he seems to think lesser of me. I don’t know if I should address this first with him or our manager.

    It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and feels disrespectful. I have zero idea why he even thought it was okay to treat me this way. No one else on the team does this.

    1. A Non E. Mouse*

      Late reply that you might not even see, BUT:

      I’ve run across people like this before and it’s nothing personal – they tend to do this to *everyone*. Allow someone else to do the majority of the work unless basically forced to do it, and try to take all the credit while they are at it.

      I usually handle this with extreme documentation, and “innocently” looping in their manager – mine I keep in the loop the whole time with “so-and-so is trying to get out of this portion of their job, here’s what I’m doing to keep the train moving, how far do you want me to take this”.

      I would just document document document the work you did, and make sure your manager is aware. That’s all you can really do.

  229. Indie*

    Do it! You clearly have fun writing which is why you are fun to read. If nothing else, it’ll be cathartic…

  230. Alex*

    Late question, but here goes.

    There’s a new guy in my department who I’ve been told is going to be let go. (I’m a senior individual contributor, not management). He had two meetings about his conduct in his first week; the head of HR for our entire company was on the second one. Aside from a couple of meetings his boss’ boss was in, there’s been zero change in his behavior since those meetings.

    I think terminating this guy’s contract is a good idea, because he’s disruptive, obviously doesn’t care about the work, and acts like other people are supposed to be doing his job while he checks his phone, but it leaves me wondering how to conduct myself towards him until he gets let go. I’m not going to ignore him or anything, but it’s an awkward position to be in, where he asks me for help on something but I know he’s going to be let go. Any advice?

  231. MyDevon*

    I have been a job hopper. I was in the military for 8 years following HS. When I got out I went to school and finished my Bachelors. In this time I got married to someone that couldn’t hold down a job and so I was getting low paying non-skilled jobs because it was easy because they were hiring warm bodies and we needed the money now. These jobs were often toxic and management was poor so I would quit after 6 months to a year. I got hired at my current company 4 years ago and was quickly promoted into a management position. I worked here for 2 years and left for another retail management position that was better paying and based on research was a great place to work. My district was poorly managed and severely toxic (lots of involvement from HR). I left because my current employer had another management slot and they hired me back 9 months after I left. I’ve been back a year and am trying to figure out my next move. I’m passively looking right now since I want to give me employer one more year (4 years total). I can’t break the idea that I’m still a hopper and maybe I still am. My job is retail and customer service can be wearing on the soul. My cell phone number is posted for customers to see (company doesn’t contribute to the bill) and there is virtually no work life balance. When I’m not at work I’m wondering whats happening, and the threat of losing your job is always there.

    I guess I’m seeking any advice to change my mentality, what to look for in the future. I don’t have any particular passions for a particular field, just want to go to work then come home and not panic every time my phone rings or that I’ll get fired tomorrow (I’ve never been fired from a job). I guess its been so long since I’ve been in a healthy work environment that I’ve forgotten they exist. Thanks everyone!

    1. WellRed*

      I can’t really offer advice on what you should look for in the future. I do want to suggest you stop thinking of yourself as a job hopper. You did 8 years in the military. Then, after bouncing around a bit, you built up some experience and growth in retail and FWIW, I don’t think your retail history is unusual. Think about what enabled you to succeed both military and retail and what you liked, and think about how to transfer that.

  232. HiHello*

    I’m terrified and need some objective advice. I have an incredible job offer on the table – better commute, better title, and $20,000 over what I make now. I asked for $5k more and to be put at the year 2 vacation level (5 more days). The HR recruiter totally shot down the extra days (which is so easy to grant someone, I don’t get it. I would have accepted that without the pay bump). Then I pushed back on the salary since she couldn’t give me the vacation, and let her know I’m leaving some retirement money and vacation on the table if I leave my current position. She reminded me that the offer is above the range she told me on the phone, which I did tell her at one point that it was in line with my expectations. Our conversation was uncomfortable. She told me she has to get back to me after checking with others. Today is Wednesday. She is already out of town for the next 2 days, so I won’t hear from her until next week, 5-6 days from now! I feel like I could have just massively messed up and I have no idea how I’ll survive the weekend. $20k is a ton more than I make now, I can’t lose out on this job! But she also never told me “no, this is our final offer.” Did I just totally bungle my job offer?

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