updates: the men who wouldn’t be alone with women, the very good dog, and more

by Alison Green on May 23, 2019

Here are three updates from people who had their letters answered here in the past.

1. Some men in my office refuse to be alone with women

I know everyone loves updates, and I have a somewhat positive one. So the coworker I mentioned in the letter, who had raised the performance review issue up the official channels, had a meeting with HR. They told her that effective immediately, any supervisor who feels they can’t do one-on-ones with a woman will have to have that policy for ANY of their reports. They’re also going to let all employees know that if any of them are uncomfortable with a supervisor that has that policy, they can request a new supervisor (and knowing the company culture in general, I don’t think there’d be any penalty for bringing this up). They’re doing supervisor training soon that will be including the new policy, and I know they’ve already met with at least some of the culprit supervisors to inform them of this change.

I don’t know if there will be any future fallout, but I feel like my company did the right (and smart) thing in making it equal. I feel a lot less conflicted now about coming to work!

2. How do I break bad news about my dog? (#3 at the link)

My good boy passed away in September of last year. With the advice you and the comment section gave me, I handled it in a few ways. After he recovered from his surgery, I sent a note to my team mentioning that he didn’t have very long, and that I had created a mailing list to advertise the adventures we would be going on every weekend to make his life as full as possible. Through this mailing list my coworkers were able to spend extra time with him if they wanted to, and I was also able . When his symptoms came back (unfortunately only a few months after surgery, not the year or more we had been hoping for) I threw him a retirement party during a workday afternoon (with my boss’s blessing) and invited my team as well as his other friends around the office. It was pretty well-attended and we made a lot of memories! About a week after that he passed away, and my manager encouraged me to take the time that I needed to grieve.

It turned out that life without a dog was almost impossible to bear, and I adopted another high-energy book-smart street-stupid herding dog mix only a week or two after that. He’s got a very different personality – notably, he’s a cuddler, which really benefited me while dealing with this loss – and it’s been fun to introduce him to my team and get to know him myself.

I really appreciate the condolences and the ideas that everyone offered. When I wrote in my brain was completely mush from grief and, to be frank, having someone else tell me what I could do made all the difference. Big love and thank you to the AAM family. :)

3. Is it bad to step back from a management job to a less senior position? (#3 at the link)

First, I just want to thank you so much for publishing my letter regarding leaving my management position and joining a new company as an individual contributor. I wanted to let you know that I took the new job. Of course my prior employer did and said all they could in an effort to keep me. Ultimately I knew that nothing would ever change. I know my manager meant well, but everything I was being promised was just hollow promises to keep me from walking out that door. So I gracefully gave my 2 weeks notice, and finished out my time there with plenty of hugs and tears from my former colleagues who I will miss dearly.

I’ve been at my new job for a little over a week now, and I’m loving it so far. The new company really seems to be big on treating their employees well. I actually take breaks away from my desk, for the first time in a long time. My new team really bands together to accomplish the workload. No one person seems to have an unreasonable workload, we all divide it up and lend a hand where needed. Also, there is an on-site fitness center in the building I work in, so I’m now able to use a gym free of charge at anytime I like. Because I’m now working a standard 8 hour shift vs 10/12 hours, I now have more time at home to prep healthy meals and unwind after my day by doing things I enjoy. I have my next physical with my primary care physician in June. I’m hoping that we will see improvements in my blood pressure and other areas.

Thank you so much for posting my question, and I also want to thank the commenters for all of their input. Their support, kindness, and sage advice really helped to reinforce what I already knew deep down inside!

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{ 161 comments }

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  1. OP 3*

    OP #3 here!

    I just wanted to hop on here and tell you all that I have now started week 5 at the new job, and things are still going really well. I’ve already been given excellent feedback by my direct supervisor as well as her manager. As draining as my prior job was, it truly did prepare me very well for future jobs. I’m able to multitask in a fast-paced environment and can shift priorities quickly as needed. My new supervisor is very impressed with my skills. So many of my skills from my prior job were transferable to this current one. I know my way around a computer very well, as well as the typical software that is used. So that really helped as far as my onboarding process, as there were many things they did not have to train me on because I already know them. My supervisor has started to assign me special projects. Normally these types of projects are given to people a few months in, but she told me that I’m catching on so quickly. My new department is very small compared to my old one, I’m one of six senior analysts. My daily routine is very structured but also leaves me plenty of breathing room. I take an hour for lunch. I’m leaving the office by 5 every day, and I’m able to go to the gym or go for a walk around my neighborhood, prepare a healthy dinner, and prepare food for the next day. I’ve also noticed that I’m a lot more calm and social now. Before, I was always so overworked, mentally drained, and frazzled to the point where I didn’t want to see or speak to any of my friends or even family members after my work shifts. I was not in a great place. Now I feel like the fog has lifted and I’ve started seeing friends socially on nights and weekends. I feel like I’ve sort of re-joined the world, in a way. I have a physical checkup with my primary care Dr in mid-june. I’m hoping there will be some improvements in my blood pressure as well as other areas. I have lost some weight now that I’ve been exercising and eating healthier. I’m hoping I’m started down the road to better health. As for my old job, I am still frequently in touch with a few of the people I was especially close to. They have been experiencing massive layoffs and I was very lucky to get out when I did. I don’t believe I mentioned this in my initial letter or update, but I also completely switched industries. I previously worked in financial services, I now work for the corporate headquarters of a large retail company. Completely different Industries, but many transferable skills. All in all, I couldn’t be happier with my decision to accept the new role. It is such a relief to walk into work every morning and be able to sit at my desk quietly and get myself settled and go about my day, without being in a management position where I constantly have people at me all day long from the moment I walk in the door to the moment I leave. While I do miss some parts of being a manager, like training, developing, and mentoring my employees, I feel that I made the best decision for my happiness and health. I wanted to thank you all again for all of your advice and kind words!

    3. The Original K.*

      Oh, yay! I love happy updates! So glad you made the best decision for you!

    5. Another Former Manager*

      I’m so glad you’re doing so well. I also have gone from manager to analyst twice in my career. The first time, my career was stagnating where I was and my job was starting to feel very insecure. I had survived a couple lay-offs already, and made a job change just in time to miss another lay-off. I loooved being an individual contributer again. I believe having been a manager before made me a better employee in a lot of ways.

      The second time I made the switch, I had been promoted from analyst to manager again. Though I hadn’t been in the role for long, I already knew I was heading towards stagnating again. There just wasn’t any realistic career growth for me from where I was. When an amazing job opportunity came up, again as an analyst, I jumped at the chance.

      In both situations, I increased both my salary and my skillset. I moved into different areas of my industry which has given me a more well-rounded set of skills. Had I stayed on as manager in either job, I believe I would be pretty unhappy, bored, or most likely burned out.

    6. Dezzi*

      Glad to hear you’re doing so well! I spent 2.5 years in a supervisory role. It was a different industry, but I was on call 24/7 from 9am on Monday – 5pm on Friday, plus every fourth weekend. I had no prior management experience, was given no training on how to be a manager, and by the end of my time in that position I was supervising 25 people. With no backup or assistance of any kind. I was burnt out, barely had time to pee most days, and had so much brain fog from the stress that I felt like a total zombie. I was being worked to death and getting no support from my boss (he actually had a bad habit of undermining my projects, but that’s another story). I was *miserable.*

      I had hit a point where I was ready to quit with no job lined up and no savings because it was so horrible, when the director of another department offered me a position as their administrative assistant. It was a lateral transfer salary-wise, but I had the same reluctance about what it would mean for my career….then I had to take another 3am phone call about something stupid, and that was it. I jumped into the new position and never looked back, and it was the best decision I’ve ever made. Congratulations on your new life!!!

    7. ..Kat..*

      I’m glad the step down from management is working so well for you!

      Also, holy cow! You managed 28 people!

      1. Dezzi*

        I started out with a smaller team, but I tended to always either volunteer or get voluntold for our monthly job fairs (we’re *always* hiring entry-level people). Our recruiter loved having me there because I was really good at keeping things running and directing applicants to the openings that would be the best fit for them. So, since I was always there, I also got first pick at anyone who might be a good fit for my team.

        I probably should have stopped before I hit 25+, but we just needed the people so badly and have such high turnover. I was in charge of managing Substitute Teapot Painters for my cluster of programs–we need 24/7 staffing, and when full-time staff are out sick/on vacation/on FMLA or we have an open position, it’s cheaper to use Substitutes than pay regular staff overtime. I was the only one at my level who was able to meet the agency-wide target for Substitute use vs. regular staff overtime, which I was very proud of myself for :) But managing 20-30 people and dealing with that kind of on-call schedule and the hours I had to work on a salary of under $40k (yay non-profit human services!) was just not sustainable. I love the work we do dearly, but I couldn’t handle that role any more. It was destroying my life.

        After just under a year in the administrative assistant position I got poached by another department, and have basically found my dream job. I’m on an amazing team with a wonderful boss, doing great work and helping the organization provide better services, with hours that let me have an actual life outside work :D

    8. Natatat*

      Glad to hear this decision has worked out so well for you! I recently made a somewhat similar choice, although in my case my new and current role was meant to transition into the manager position after 1 year. I hadn’t become the manager yet. I realized it wasn’t the right situation for me (for multiple reasons including work/life balance issues), told them I didn’t want the manager role, and luckily they liked me so much they decided to make my current role (that I like very much)(originally meant to be a contract position) permanent.

  2. Akcipitrokulo*

    3 good updates!
    Particularly delighted with update 1. That’s fantastic they took it seriously and are taking action to remedy it.

    2. Indigo a la mode*

      I agree, and I think it was a good solution…though I am a little salty about congratulating them for reactively taking steps to, you know, follow federal law.

      1. RUKiddingMe*

        “I am a little salty about congratulating them for reactively taking steps to, you know, follow federal law.”

        Feels kind of icky right? Like a hollow victory almost.

    3. MM*

      I am, frankly, gobsmacked that something real was done in this case. I fully expected to read that HR had mumbled something about manager prerogatives and culture and values, or that there had been vague meetings/workshops about gender equality but nothing aimed directly at the problem. Amazing! Sometimes things go in the right direction!

  4. Hello!*

    To LW2, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your dog, but am glad that you got a new pup. Although the new dog can never replace the one you lost, I am glad that you have found comfort and love with your new pup. It is one of the hardest things to go through, losing an animal that entirely depended on you. I am going through something similar with my cat that was recently diagnosed with FeLV/FIV so coming to peace with his likely shorter life expectancy has been difficult, but you have to enjoy the time you have left and make them enjoy the remainder of their lives (which you certainly did).

    1. Liane*

      Crying over this one, even though I am so happy you have a new dog. Excuse me while I go hug on my dog some more.

    2. KR*

      Going to pile on this comment too. – OP I am so sorry about your good boy and I know he’s crossed the rainbow bridge and is having a blast with all the other good puppos we’ve lost. Okay brb crying

      1. OP2*

        He absolutely is. He’s absolutely trying to prove he’s the fastest one at the park these days. Border Collies, am I right?

        1. KR*

          If I could put the crying emoji here I would. So glad you have a buddy to help you through this

        2. Light37*

          I call them Border cuddlies. My friend had one and Dot’s goal in life, when not herding the sheep/ducks/shelties/cat, was to be cuddled up with her person as much as possible. She was convinced she was a lap dog, which could get interesting when you were driving!

        3. Veryanon*

          LOL – I have a rescue dog who’s a border collie/Lab mix. She sometimes forgets she is basically a house dog and will do things like run out the front door as I’m leaving to go to work to chase some deer, a rabbit, a squirrel, what have you. It’s funny as heck to watch her try to move her fat behind fast enough to catch a deer.

          1. your favorite person*

            I have two border collie/lab mixes and they couldn’t be more different! One is whip smart, big (sad) puppy eyes and needy. The other is… not so smart, but dopey, fluffy, and shy.

            Now I want to go home and be with my pups. :/

        4. Bowserkitty*

          BORDER COLLIESSSSSS.

          If you have photo of either good dog and would not mind sharing, I would love to see. (If not, no pressure!)

          1. OP2*

            I want to but I also really would prefer to remain anonymous! I don’t think I have a good way to get a picture to you :(

            1. Bowserkitty*

              I know some people host them on imgur, but it really is no problem :) I can imagine they were both ADORABLE as all dogs are!! ^^

    3. ProducerGalNYC*

      Same. I lost my Oliver Squish Monday to what we think was an aggressive cancer. He was 13 but it still feels so unfairly quick. People at work have been lovely and ask, but not too much. I’m crying on and off but mostly holding it together until I get home. I can’t even think of getting another cat right now– he was one of those pets who was super special. I have another cat at home who’s a little lonely right now, but I think we’ll just give her extra attention for now and see how she adjusts (she’s 17 and still healthy as all heck). It’s just gutting, and the sadness comes in waves. So glad LW2 opened their heart to another animal in need.

      1. Hello!*

        I am so sorry. When my family dog was put down, I came into my office on Monday morning and, having not told anyone at work, my coworker started showing me pictures of the puppies that his sister was fostering for a local animal shelter and I just absolutely burst into tears and ran out of the office. I am so sorry to hear about Oliver Squish (such a cute name), they leave paw prints on our hearts forever. If there is one thing I have learned about getting a new pet after the loss of a pet, it is that you should keep your heart open to the opportunity and not rush into it too fast, when you are ready for a new pet all of the pieces will fall into place. My kitty (Sam is his name, but I mostly just call him Muffin at this point) and I send our deepest condolences. I will hug him a little extra tonight.

        1. ProducerGalNYC*

          Thank you so much! My other cat, Mitzi May, also a gorgeous black cat, is wandering the apartment meowing in a weird way, almost like she’s looking for/missing him. I’m trying to give her extra attention, and she just lets me cry and cry. There’s no way around the sadness, only through it. I know you and other pet lovers understand– and would agree they are worth every tear. Chin scratches and extra pets to Sam/Muffin. xx

    4. PlainJane*

      So sorry to hear about your cat. I know my experience isn’t the norm, but maybe it’ll give you a little hope. My crusty old former alley cat was diagnosed with FIV in the summer of 1993. The vet said she’d be gone by Christmas, because she was old and pretty symptomatic. We got her through that crisis and several others (all of which were brief and not too serious–though sometimes expensive) and didn’t lose her till spring of 2000, when she was about 18 by the vet’s estimate. She was happy and had good quality of life up to the very end.

      1. Hello!*

        Aww thank you, I needed that. My vet is anticipating a relatively long life since he is not showing any symptoms yet. Just tough because when I got him they told me he had tested negative which makes it frustrating. I know he would do so well with another kitty in the home because he seems lonely but I don’t want to get a second cat with this illness or risk infecting another cat. I am sorry for your loss, but at least you can take comfort in how long you were able to spend with her.

        1. Venus*

          Indoor FIV cats have nearly the same lifespan as a non-FIV cat. And if they don’t wrestle-play (no biting each other to draw blood) then the chances of infecting another cat are effectively zero. I have heard about cats who live in the same home for 10+ years and there was never a problem.

          I totally understand if you don’t want to take the risk, Hello!, but please know that the rescues I volunteer with would be happy to adopt a non-FIV cat to you (the key would be to find a calm cat that doesn’t want to wrestle, and to be cautious when introducing them to ensure they got along well).

          1. Hello!*

            He has FeLV and FIV, not just FIV. There is a shelter that will vaccinate their cats against FeLV/FIV free of charge, but I just really don’t want to risk potentially infecting another kitty. I have been considering getting a dog (the cat actually really likes dogs, just not overly hyper ones) but I would want a shelter dog and they tend to not like cats or not meet the weight/breed requirements for my condo, but I am keeping an eye out for one.

            1. mlem*

              Yeah, the FeLV would be the complicating factor, not the FIV. FIV isn’t particularly transmissible unless you’re dealing with bite wounds or sex; I had an FIV+ kitty whose two kittens didn’t catch it from being born to her nor from sharing food/water with her. That one pretty much requires blood transfer. I’ve heard FeLV is more transmissible than that.

              (My vet told me that vaccinating for FIV would make my cat “test positive” for FIV; I don’t know if the same is true for FeLV. I’m presuming that you would know if your cat had been vaccinated for them, though.)

              Good luck with your kitty’s health.

  5. Lora*

    OP2, I am so sorry for your loss but I am glad that you have a new friend who brings you comfort.

    I also could not live without my dogs. When my last two passed away within a year of each other (they were close in age) it was a tremendous comfort that the next two I adopted were absolute snuggle-bugs. You can never feel alone at 2am in the dark when there’s a random muddy paw flailing at your ribs…

    1. OP2*

      You are so right! The new guy was kind enough to let me cry on his shoulder and somehow even loves to be the little spoon pretty much all night. (I think he’s broken? Dogs aren’t supposed to do that???)

      1. Pebbles*

        Definitely not broken. My husband and I have a dog that has to start bedtime each night by crawling under the covers, laying in-between my husband’s feet, and licks them. She’s almost 7 years old now and hasn’t stopped her “routine”.

        1. irene adler*

          That’s adorable!
          (tho’ I’m ticklish! Would be reduced to violent laughter in no time!)

          I am ‘summoned’ to bed with barking and much jumping around on the bed. Woe to me if I wish to stay up beyond my regular bed time.. Then, when I settle in, dog cuddles up and …starts in on his bone. Won’t work on it at any other time. Sleep comes soon after.

          1. Jadelyn*

            Oh lord, I get summoned to bed too, though with meowing and pointed stares rather than barking and jumping lol.

        3. Rainy*

          Dachsie? Our dachshund is quite the burrower. He likes to sleep in his own crate (in a giant pile of blankets, towels, and toys) but he starts bedtime in our bed burrowing under the duvet and licking our ankles.

          1. Pebbles*

            Our pup is a 35lb. corgi-beagle mix. There could be more in there cause she’s taller than either breed, but probably not dachs.

          1. RUKiddingMe*

            One of mine does that too. She will lay right next to me snuggling and lifts the back of her head to rub it against my face.

            One of the other ones will sit on my chest tasting my face while her son drapes himself across my tummy.

            My other boy and *his* mother just look on from the other side of the bed. Yes, that’s five total. There were six but the oldest one went to kitty heaven last year.

            Have I mentioned I’m allergic to cats? ::shakes head::

      3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Not broken at all, my “little” dog (the one who’s only 50 pounds instead of 75) would prefer to sleep between one of her peoples’ knees, but since that leads to leg ouches for us after a pretty short time, we veto that option and she settles for little-spooning with someone most nights instead :)

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          (The big one tends to lay on the floor or her pillow by herself, but if someone comes up and big-spoons her, she’s very accommodating.)

      4. Lora*

        He is not broken. Mine have a whole Hugs Time ritual when I bring them in from their evening walk, where they must be hugged, tummy-rubbed and do all their tricks followed by either a nail clipping or ear cleaning. Then they climb in bed with me and go through a whole hour-long fidgety re-arrangement to get comfortable and decide who will be which spoon. They are 150 pounds each of fur, farts and drool, so this is something of an ordeal…

      5. CommanderBanana*

        Haha my little dog LOVES to be the tiny spoon – when the lights go off she marches underneath the covers, circles, and plops down against my belly.

        My big dog will tolerate little-spooning, but prefers to curl up and smush her butt up against you.

        Then, at least 15 minutes of noisy paw slurps before they both conk out. I don’t know why this has to happen AFTER we’re in bed, but it does. The big one also likes to lick your arms and shins as part of her routine.

        Morning immediately after waking up is belly rub time (big one) and ATTACK YOUR FOOOOOOT! time (little one).

        1. irene adler*

          I guess if one can read before turning in, then 15 minutes of paw slurps would be the canine equivalent.

      6. Dust Bunny*

        Not broken. Some dogs are just cuddlers.

        I have one cat who DEMANDS CUDDLES at all hours, and another one who won’t even be picked up 95% of the time. Animals have preferences, too.

      7. KR*

        You are so right about the cuddling. My GSD died about a year ago and the next dog we got after her was a huge cuddle bug. So helpful when I’m missing my GSD and she’s always down for a cuddle or a hug.

      8. Egs*

        I’ve given up trying to be the little spoon to my SO. The puppy LOVES to be the MIDDLE spoon.

      9. Veryanon*

        My Penny, who’s a lab/border collie mix, would love nothing more to snuggle with me on the bed – I’ve only banned her from the bed because she has this thick, long black hair that gets all over everything in spite of my best efforts to brush and groom her. So she has a special chair in my room where she sleeps all curled up and cozy.

      10. Phx Acct, now with dragons*

        It’s not weird! Every dog I’ve ever had (11?) has been a cuddler- though my current terrier likes to be laid ON. He’d probably enjoy weighted blankets.

        On that train of thought – my goat likes to be cuddled too. She’ll jump up into the hammock with people and will crawl into my lap when sleeping under my work desk isn’t enough.

    2. Catsaber*

      I grumble about the dog hair, but really, I’d be devastated if I had to live without dogs! Whenever I go to a work conference, I’m so LONELY at night because I don’t have my leg warmer: my small dog who sleeps behind my knees for the past 8 years.

  6. Close Bracket*

    They’re also going to let all employees know that if any of them are uncomfortable with a supervisor that has that policy, they can request a new supervisor

    This is interesting. I predict that this will disproportionately affect female employees with male supervisors. Here at my employer, supervisors have varying levels of expertise in different stuff. Let’s say my supervisor is Expert McPatriarchy, and I opt to transfer to Middling McWoke. I would still have access to Mr. McP, but less than I would have in a reporting relationship. I assume Mr. McP’s need for an escort to meet with me would be the same whether I report to him or not, so all I gain is a non-creepy supervisor, not a less creepy relationship with Mr. McP.

    This is a great start, and I hope people of all genders who want a new supervisor take advantage of the new policy. I hope the company makes a parallel effort to develop the McPatriarchys to get them to the point where people don’t feel a need to transfer to somebody new.

    1. Not Me*

      Right, but the reporting relationship directly impacts employment decisions (raises, evaluations, promotions, etc). Which would also mean a lot of closed door conversations that wouldn’t be had with a co-worker or colleague.

      1. Close Bracket*

        but the reporting relationship directly impacts employment decisions (raises, evaluations, promotions, etc).

        And if there is no other good functional available for a reporting relationship, women who have a reporting relationship with a person who is functionally the right fit but has backwards ideas about gender relationships will be stuck choosing between raises, evaluations, and promotions from the person who is best to evaluate them but won’t have a confidential conversation with them and a person who will give them the closed door conversations but isn’t the best functional fit in terms of raises, evaluations, and promotions. That’s not a great choice! I want my confidential conversations, AND I want them from the person who has the best work for me and is best at evaluating my work!

    2. CaliCali*

      OP1 here. That definitely makes sense, though I guess I’d say that based on my experience in working at the company, it’s small and accessibility would be pretty equal between the two, whether you were reporting to them or not.

      1. valentine*

        If all the women changed supervisors and the sexist supervisors had no need to meet privately with women (except HR?), would they still have to have chaperones to meet with men or would they essentially be rewarded with an all-presumed-male paradise?

    3. Working Mom Having It All*

      For the record, I haven’t found that supervisors (or workers, in general) who are “more woke” are less good at their jobs, have less expertise in their fields, or are less good to work for when it comes to professional development. If anything, I find that, as a woman, my supervisors who have had a more feminist outlook have been more open to mentoring me (and, often, more open to mentoring me for the right reasons!), while my supervisors who had the telltale signs of not being as progressive on gender issues were also the ones more likely to “mentor” me for the sake of hearing themselves talk, or telling me how great I’m doing, how far I’ll go, how rosy my future is, etc. and then not actually following through with real professional development or mentorship.

      To me, the “no one on one meetings with women” policy would be an immediate red flag that I couldn’t expect much from that supervisor, down the line. That they would probably mean well, and probably talk a big game about how they were going to help me in my career, but that inevitably there would be no real follow-through. And that, most likely, this manager would promote a less qualified man over me. Which happens a LOT. Even in 2019.

      That said, I can see this being an issue if Creepy McPatriarch heads up the team doing specific work I’m interested in, while Wokey O’Mentor heads up something that interests me less. Forcing me to choose to specialize in an area that isn’t in line with my long term goals. But, then, that sort of thing can happen at any point in a person’s career, for any reason. (Example: early on in my entertainment industry career I had hoped to gain experience and hopefully specialize in period/historical film projects, but every promotion led me further from that, and I didn’t end up doing it. Nothing to do with sexism, just the luck of which projects came up at the right or wrong time.)

      1. Beth*

        I’m simply sitting here filled with glee at the names. Especially Wokey O’Mentor.

      2. Close Bracket*

        “I can see this being an issue if Creepy McPatriarch heads up the team doing specific work I’m interested in, while Wokey O’Mentor heads up something that interests me less.”

        That’s what I was driving at.

    4. Me*

      I’m not so sure. If the policy is I won’t meet with women alone so I won’t meet with anyone alone, that levels the playing field so both men and women are equally affected by a supervisor who can’t meet with an employee without an audience. I would think men would find meeting with their boss and an audience unnecessarily to be disconcerting and request a transfer.

      Hopefully there’s another update! I’m super interested to see how this plays out.

      1. goducks*

        I don’t know about that. There’s a level of humiliation involved in knowing that the reason that your boss won’t meet 1:1 with you or anybody else is YOUR gender. In this instance, the men can shrug that off a little easier. It’s not their bodies that are the reason for the rule, KWIM?

      2. Me*

        I can appreciate that pov. I think for me because I wouldn’t find it humiliating, but rather almost comical that boss is such a tool, and transfer for that reason. My gut is anyone with that type of mentality is probably awful in so many other ways. I more think they wouldn’t be bothered by the rule, but rather bothered by the lose of the blatant unfair treatment and now needing a chaperone. Of course that also means they’re probably awful in that instance.

        I also found interesting the later commenter who had a boss like this, came out with said policy and found every loophole possible to continue to discriminate. I’m curious if that will happen now.

      3. Richard Hershberger*

        I’ll bet it doesn’t stick. It is functionally impossible to do a lot of ordinary office functions with this rule in place. I’ll predict that when with men, there will be fudging in the name of getting the job done. It will be modest and surreptitious at first, gradually turning into general practice. A rule this ridiculous requires constant effort to enforce. The supervisor will be the one enforcing it with women. Who will enforce it with men?

      4. Sarah N*

        Yeah, I kind of hope enough non-management employees band together and request transfers away from the sexist managers that this policy becomes untenable and the sexist managers have no one left to manage. That would be the just result, in my opinion. Especially since, it doesn’t seem like this update addresses things like work travel — is the policy now that these managers can never go on work travel with one employee, so that there’s no risk of them choosing a male travelling partner?

    5. AnotherAlison*

      Yeah, for me, a change in supervisor would probably mean a change in job duties. Or, reporting to a supervisor’s supervisor if I needed to stay in the same functional area, which would be another set of problems, because now you’re the “special” one jumping a level.

      What I would prefer to see is that being a supervisor requires that you meet one-on-one with any direct report. If you object, then you go back to an individual contributor role. That would still present some issues for me. As a female in management, I wouldn’t want an escort to meet with any of my reports, but at least the person most affected is the person with the beliefs. In the current situation for the OP, while better than before, the women are still penalized from meeting with certain men in leadership roles.

      Personal side note: I was watching a show about the Women Airforce Service Pilots in WWII, and they talked about the disparate treatment of women (such as not receiving any military benefits). My husband was like, “I just can’t believe that. It’s so crazy.” I’m like, “You have no idea what’s going on in 2019.

      1. Sarah N*

        This seems like a fair solution. A key work requirement of being a manager should be being able to have private performance reviews with employees and being able to drive together in a car to get to a business meeting. If you can’t meet those basic requirements, you really cannot be a manager. I would liken this to my job, which involves meeting with students. It would be completely inappropriate for me to refuse to meet with my male students unless they brought a friend along — students deserve the right to express concerns about a course grade or a troubling personal situation that requires an extension or whatever, without having to reveal all that information to a third party. If I decided to institute a rule like this, I really don’t see how I could ethically remain in my position.

      2. Women in war time*

        Is that the group of women who would fly planes around inside the country so the planes would be in position to go to a war zone? If so I saw one of those shows and they referred to the women as wearing “costumes.” !!!

        Men serving their country wore uniforms but women serving their country wore costumes!! That detail made me furious.

        (And if anyone says the women didn’t REALLY serve their country because they didn’t kill anyone, try explaining that to the male mechanics who kept the planes operational.)

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          And the Radar O’Reilly types who kept their units functional!

      3. Batman*

        Yep. The person with the sexist beliefs should not have those beliefs catered to and has to suffer real consequences or else nothing will change. I think the solution the company came up with is the wrong tack to take here.

    6. AKchic*

      I also have this anger towards the fact that the “managers” will be affected yet will most likely not receive any difference in pay.

      Jerky McPatriarchy is going to lose reports, or get nothing but phallic tools in his arsenal (gee, another boys club, how original!).
      Token Semi-Woken is going to end up with all the women, and maybe even a LOT more reports than Jerky McPatriarchy.
      If McPatriarchy has less reports now, will his salary go down to reflect the changes? Or will he get a raise because he’s putting out more “work”? Will Semi-Woken’s salary go up because he has to manage more people, or will he get reprimanded because his day-to-day work is suffering because he has too many people reporting to him and he’s doing more managing than the work he was originally assigned?

      Oh, hey… they’ve hired a 3rd guy. An outside guy. Yep. A guy. Humble O’Brag. He swears he can handle all of the reports that McPatriarchy “cast aside”. Only time will tell on “As The Office Turns”… *end scene*

      Cut to commercial!

  7. Drew*

    All three updates have me happy, but I think I particularly love the first one for showing how functional management deals with this sort of thing: by clearly laying out expectations, telling people what is and isn’t acceptable, and giving the employees explicit permission to escalate problems and assurances that they’ll be dealt with appropriately. Maybe they’ll even open the eyes of a couple of those men in the process.

  9. CommanderBanana*

    I LOVE the way HR dealt with #1 – being like, okay, that has to be your policy for ALL your 1-1s is brilliant.

    1. OP1*

      I was pleased! And I can’t take any credit, though I do know my coworker who raised the issue did see the letter I sent, felt vindicated about it, and it helped push things in the right direction. We can’t make people see the light in terms of the patriarchy, but we can minimize its effects.

    2. Observer*

      yes, it is.

      Also, a really good example of understanding the limits of “company culture” are a paradigm for judging things.

    4. Hey Karma, Over here.*

      It showed me that this was a rogue group in the organization and that keeping quiet was letting it become “the way things are done here” instead of “a couple jerks think they can do what they want.”

    5. JKP*

      I’m curious how many of them will change their policy now that they can’t meet ANY of their reports alone. I suspect suddenly they will all be comfortable meeting with a woman alone after all.

      1. Hey Karma, Over here.*

        Conversely, (inversely?) now that women have an opportunity to choose more effective managers, will these guys just close up their clique more tightly? As I wrote earlier, they are a rogue group already, so will they step into the new millennium or will they hold firmer to their views?

        1. Not Me*

          Most likely hold firmer to their views until they are terminated (for cause, retirement, etc).

        2. Meg Murry*

          Yes, my concern is that all the women will ask to change supervisors and that will leave the managers with “no 1-on-1s with women” rule with only men to manage, and then everyone can continue to turn a blind eye and pretend this isn’t a problem, when of course it still is.

          1. Kimberly*

            I would hope that if all the women leave or a good number of total leave that would lead to the bad managers being looked at very closely and fired.

      2. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

        That’s possible. I’m betting most of them will go with the much easier solution of meeting in a glass-walled meeting room or something. ‘Alone but not alone.’ Maybe we’ll get an update on the update?

  10. NACSACJACK*

    LW #2 – Is your new good boy a border collie / lab mix? Happy to hear this on the near anniversary of the passing of my book-smart, street-stupid herding border collie/lab mix good boy b. Boradors forever!

    1. OP2*

      The new good boy is a massive everything bagel, but a quarter BC and an eighth Australian Cattle Dog. He has the BC rear dewclaws, body shape, work ethic, with ACD coloring, and a head that looks just a little pittie (don’t tell my landlord). My late bestie was sold to me as a Borador but when I had him tested he was 75% BC and 25% ???? (I figure he was probably a McNab). Herders forever!

      1. Quoth the Raven*

        Aww! I have an ACD myself who is also book-smart, street-stupid, perpetual stubborn. I’m currently away from home on holidays so I miss my girl, so please give your puppy a hug for me?

        I’m so happy you found him :)

    2. Veryanon*

      Boradors! I love that term! My rescue is a mix of border collie/Lab/??? (maybe some Chow, she has a purple tongue). She’s not great with strangers or other dogs, but she loves me fiercely and follows me all around the house. She’s a Very Good Dog.

  11. Dust Bunny*

    LW2 I am so sorry about your poor dog!

    I was immensely fortunate that my last dog survived her various health scares and lived to be seventeen-ish before we had to put her to sleep to rescue her from being just plain worn out (arthritis and vestibular syndrome, but nothing really acute). If dogs also had nine lives, she ran through seven of them in the time we had her. It was a bad year: I lost my dog and my boss lost both of his dogs in the space of about six months.

    We intended to wait awhile to get another animal but she was an only pet and the idea of being petless was unbearable, so we went back to the vet the next day and adopted a five-month-old kitten who had been languishing in their adoption cage. She was a plain brown tabby and wasn’t a little tiny cute thing any more, and nobody was looking at her.

    We joke that the dog, who always did prefer cats to other dogs, picked her out for us. She is the best friend ever–smart, feisty, snuggly, attentive. Very much, actually, like the dog. We still miss the dog (it’s been six and a half years) but we love this cat more than I can describe.

  12. Stanley Nickels*

    OP2, I’m so sorry for your loss! It’s so hard to say goodbye, but it sounds like you had a wonderful send off for your good boy. My own little buddy passed away last month, and coming home to a wag-less, bark-less house has been really sad. I’m glad you found a new pup to help you through it all!

  13. AyBeeCee*

    OP#2, I’m sorry about your dog but I’m so glad you were able to give him adventures and a retirement party! The idea of a dog retirement party is just wonderful.

    1. OP2*

      It was a ton of fun. We got to break all the human food rules because, why not? And I can honestly say that you haven’t lived until you’ve sprayed whipped cream at your dog’s face as though it were silly string.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Hah, my big dog is a street-smart, book-stupid dog. She managed to survive on her own in a forest for some time and has a strong prey drive, but things like “stuff doesn’t disappear if I put a blankie on it” blows her mind.

      I love her dopey big smoochie wedge-head SO much.

      1. Alexander Graham Yell*

        Reminds me of Hyperbole and a Half – I love dopey dogs. (Sadly I live with an extraordinarily smart pooch who has begun to teach herself how to manipulate us – not quite smart enough to realize pulling the “I’m so hungry and haven’t been fed, so here is my bowl” trick on the person who fed her a mere 2 hours ago isn’t the best use of her trickery.)

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Wee Monster, if she decides she wants Elder Statesdog’s chewy bone (instead of one of the other twelve laying around), will run to the back door barking wildly. Elder Statesdog will drop the bone and run up the right side of the dining room to find out what’s going on, while Wee Monster books it down the left side to run back and snag the dropped bone. It works every time.

          So she also tries it on people with plates of pizza, then gets grumpy when we pick up the pizza and bring it with us to the door to see what she’s on about. :)

        2. VelociraptorAttack*

          We have two dogs that pull this. It’s not uncommon to hear “don’t let them bamboozle you, I fed them an hour ago!” yelled in our house in the evenings.

  15. the elephant in the room*

    I’d love ANOTHER update to LW #1 in the future! I am curious to know how staff handles this new policy change.

    1. voyager1*

      Yes. I had forgotten about this letter, but it does sound like HR handled this one well.

  16. LaDeeDa*

    #1 I am sooooo proud of your HR for taking control of that situation. I still think there is huge potential for bias and unfair treatment/opportunities/assessments/performance ratings, but they are doing something. Hopefully, that also means they will look very closely at performance reviews/promotion trends, etc with those leaders.

  17. Mike B.*

    I don’t understand why “won’t meet alone with women” needs any accommodation beyond “here’s the door.”

    If your religion doesn’t permit you to treat all of your subordinates as adults and professionals, it doesn’t permit you to be a supervisor.

    1. goducks*

      I agree. I personally don’t see this as a situation that has a reasonable accommodation.

      1. MatKnifeNinja*

        Around here it gets religious exemption and a lawsuit threat from the people who refuse to meet opposite sex coworkers alone.

        I know both men and women who practice this, and what OP #1 HR is doing is no big deal to them.

        When you practice this all your life, you know how to skate the edges.

        The party is just starting. I live in a red fly overstate, and the whole Billy Graham
        “I don’t meet up with women alone.” is common. Not in big deal corporations, but in just about everywhere else.

        Two teachers in my nieces elementary school, will do parent conferences in the library to avoid meeting with women in a closed room.

        #goodtimes

        1. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

          I feel like religious exemption could be fought here. The role requires 1-on-1 meetings for performance reviews, mentoring, etc. If you can’t perform that duty with half the population, you can’t perform the job. There is no reasonable accommodation in having a 3rd person present because the duty is 1-on-1 meetings.

          If your religion doesn’t allow you to work on Sundays but the job requires work on Sundays, the company isn’t legally required to accommodate you.

          1. goducks*

            I agree. If the issue is being unable to shake hands with the opposite gender, then a rule about not shaking hands with anybody is pretty reasonable, and low-impact.

            But refusing to be alone with a person of the opposite gender in a professional capacity, doing normal job duties, is not reasonable.

            Substitute any other protected characteristic for gender (race, disability status, national origin) and it just highlights how unreasonable this is.

          2. Sarah N*

            Yes, especially when the suggested third person is the employee’s SPOUSE, who is not even an employee of the company!

      2. Lauren*

        I agree. This is no different from “won’t meet alone with Asians” (or “African-Americans” or “Jews” or “Catholics” or “left-handed people” or any other group). Not acceptable and I for one would not “accommodate,” I’d tell them that’s a requirement of being an employee.

    2. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

      I agree. I just don’t think someone who thinks women and men can’t be alone together could possibly be free of implicit biases that would absolutely inform how they do their job. IMO, if you can’t be alone with the people you are managing, you can’t be a manager. I absolutely could and would not be managed by a man who won’t be alone with women. There is no way I would trust his judgement on anything related to my work.

      Inviting someone else along isn’t a fix – why should other people be privy to my performance status just because my manager upholds outdated, misogynistic practices?

      I am glad people get to switch managers if they want one willing to meet 1-on-1, but I feel like the solution needs to be “meet with everyone 1-on-1 or be demoted”

      1. AnotherAlison*

        ITA.

        Where could your career possibly go with a manager who thinks you are a second class citizen? I mean, I have probably worked with plenty of men who feel that way about women over the course of my career, but I would definitely avoid one who advertised it.

      2. Mike B.*

        Yeah, even putting aside the staggering impracticality of trying to work under this restriction, it’s disturbing to think about the view of gender norms that might make it seem necessary. If you have to go to uncomfortable lengths merely to be able to tolerate working with someone, what are your thoughts on their professional development going to be like? “She handles client meetings well, but she really should be focusing on having kids while she still can.”

      3. PlainJane*

        Totally agree about the implicit biases. Even if the manager tries really hard to be fair, the fact is that he’s seeing gender first–before skill, competence, or anything else that matters in the workplace. That in itself is a huge problem.

    3. CommanderBanana*

      If someone came to me with this I’d be like, well, that’s sad that you’re unable to control yourself around other people, it’s probably best that you leave.

    4. Clisby*

      Seconded.

      It’s not just from the supervisor’s point of view. What if a male subordinate refused to meet with a female manager for a performance evaluation?

  18. goducks*

    OP, please watch very carefully the men who adopt a “then I won’t be alone with anybody” stance. I had a CEO who did this because he “understood that his policy of not being alone with women was illegal and harmful to women”. It was amazing how often in how many small ways he broke his rule.
    If your management is going to allow people to adopt the supposedly equal no 1:1 rule, then make them enforce it for real. Not just in the big meetings, but in small moments too.

      1. goducks*

        He was super careful about 1:1 official meetings. But he would have side hallway conversations with men. He’d talk to men in the restroom. He’d share a car to run on a sales call with a man, but not a woman.

        He was fired a few months after he brought up the desire to have this policy (which I didn’t let him fully implement, since he was going to be pulling 3rd parties into confidential conversations as part of his plan. I reminded him his office door was made of glass, there was plenty of non-privacy available to him and I insisted on being able to meet 1:1 in his office when the matter was confidential).

        All in all, he wanted to appear that he wasn’t letting his Mike Pence rules affect the way he managed women, but it totally did. I’m absolutely skeptical that the men at the LW’s company will be truly able to treat men and women equally since they fundamentally don’t see them equally.

        1. goducks*

          And I’ll add, as a woman working for such a man, the moment he told me he wanted to implement such a rule, it immediately made me feel like he felt women were different than men in his workplace.

          It was humiliating to have to argue him out of the worst of his plan, and to have to call him on it when he broke his rules.

        2. MatKnifeNinja*

          The people I know know who use this practice are really skill about dodging rules against it.

        3. the_scientist*

          Yup, while I think OP #1’s HR is taking a good first step here there are MANY ways to circumvent the official policy and have unofficial/informal/ outside the office 1:1 discussions that will still give other men access to mentoring and information that their female colleagues will not have.

    2. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

      Did he have impromptu meetings that he claimed weren’t really meetings with men but not with women? For instance, a man comes by to ask a question and ends up getting a closed-door impromptu 1-on-1 that never happened for women?

      1. OhNo*

        If it’s anything like the place I worked previously, could also be that the boss conveniently “doesn’t notice” that it’s just the two of them, alone, when it’s a man. Or a meeting has three people to start, but five minutes in the 3rd wheel has to step out to take a call/run to the restroom/grab some paperwork, and the meeting just keeps going regardless.

        2. LJay*

          Your point about the third wheel stepping out brings up a point that boggles me about this.

          You’re now spending double the man-power to do a bunch of the functions of being a manager.

          And what is this other person’s role that they’re just free to be drawn into somebody else’s (formerly) one-on-one meetings with their employee?

          Like, if you have two managers that are implementing this policy, and they each have 6 direct reports each, and they each have a 30 minute one-on-one with their employees every week, that’s 6 hours a week of meetings that now need an escort.

          Whose workload are those 6 hours coming from? Is the company happy to be paying someone to be in 300 hours of meetings a year that they have no real business need to be in?

          I don’t think there is anyone at my current job that could be pulled into 3 or 6 extra hours of meetings a week every week without A. needing their workload changed, and B. being resentful about it.

    3. OhNo*

      I agree. It sounds a bit silly, but I’d keep an ear out (or maybe HR should keep an ear out) for information being shared where you wouldn’t expect it to be. You’d be surprised how easy it is for some folks to say “no 1-1’s without another person!”, and then turn around and have a “quick chat” with someone while washing hands in the restroom.

  19. iglwif*

    OP2, I’m so sorry about your friend but I’m glad that you were able to make good memories at the end, and I’m glad you have a new friend who helps with cuddles!

  20. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

    #1 is definitely a step in the right direction, but it doesn’t solve the bigger issue at hand. You are entitled to have a 1 on 1 meeting with your manager that is 100% confidential and without an audience. So for those who “can’t meet with women alone, because I can’t control myself around the jezebels”, you’re unable to fulfill one of your obligations as a manager, and need to be shown the door.

    1. stefanielaine*

      Just to be clear – the men who want this rule don’t want it because they can’t control themselves – they want it because they think women will falsely accuse them. That’s MUCH worse, and makes it much more likely that they have gross opinions about women that expand far beyond 1:1 meetings.

      1. Confused*

        There are powerful forces pushing for an end to any kind of due process for the accused in these situations. Why would you then be surprised if men are scared to put themselves in a position where a false accusation could ruin their lives?

        Are you saying false accusations never get made and anyone who thinks otherwise has gross opinions? Or that men should just risk their careers anyway, and if they don’t want to they have gross opinions?

        1. dealing with dragons*

          I mean it’s pretty telling that these men also don’t want to implement the reverse policy – if there’s a woman boss they don’t care to have a third party to protect the woman.

          the thing about false accusations is that they’re generally pretty easy to disprove. look at all the “sting” operations that third parties have done trying to take down people, like the ones trying to accuse mueller or trying to fake out wapo for that alabama guy.

        2. Mikasa*

          Are YOU saying that most or all of the accusations are false?? Don’t sexually harrass people and you won’t get accused. Are all women liars to you?

        3. hbc*

          I have yet to see a case of a guy getting a single accusation out of the blue and having it had significant consequences for him. What I *have* seen is there being a pile up of borderline behavior or a previous line-crossing that the guy is convinced is just fine. Like, that guy who calls all the women in the office “dear” after he’s been asked to stop, or the one who is mystified that he’s in trouble when he accidentally cc’s the partner when emailing his coworker that “she’s not too hard on the eyes,” or the one who keeps bugging the young hottie up front to the point that her coworkers call him “your stalker.” Those guys do not deserve Innocent Until Proven Guilty status in the workplace if/when they get a big accusation leveled against them, but I bet all of them would have the sob story about how nothing happened, but if it did they didn’t mean it, and their record was spotless until then, blah blah blah.

        4. embertine*

          In my 25 years of working, I have never seen a single man suffer any kind of consequence for harassing or even assaulting a female colleague. This behaviour is not rare; in some environments it is the norm. And yet those lying b*tches and their false accusations are what we need to worry about. Uhuh.

        5. I GOTS TO KNOW!*

          There is so, so, so much wrong with what you have said here.

          No one is pushing for no due process. Holy sh*t. Due process is only guaranteed in court. No one is advocating jail without trial. And I don’t know of any company that will fire without even a cursory investigation. There are no mysterious powerful forces advocating for a lack of process. Stop spreading that nonsense right now.

          If you are scared of having female reports because of false accusations, you don’t deserve to be a manager. And let’s be real about lives being ruined – it rarely happens. Men who have very real accusations against them don’t get their lives ruined. You might lose the job you are in, but you’ll very quickly find a new one usually. False accusations are exceedingly rare – it is even rarer a man’s life is ruined because of one.

          Stop behaving as though false accusations are rampant. Sexual assault is reported falsely at an incredibly low rate – less than 6%. Car theft is reported falsely at a higher rate. This ridiculous narrative you are peddling is harmful to women. You are actively harming real victims and any woman who has a male boss by suggesting their male boss should be afraid of them. Stop it.

          So yes, if you think that every woman has the potential or desire to falsely accuse you, that false accusations are a super frequent thing that need to be dealt with, that not meeting alone with women is a way to mitigate that, that a man is risking his career by meeting 1-on-1 with female reports… then yes, you have gross opinions and hopefully you aren’t in charge of managing anyone.

      2. hbc*

        There’s definitely the false accusation fear, but I think a heck of a lot of them do believe on some level that temptation is too strong and things can happen and they’ll be powerless to resist. It’s why 99.99% of these guys are afraid of gay men–they think all men are just hormone-triggered time bombs.

      3. Sarah N*

        Do they….know that gay people exist and that men can sexually harass men (and/or falsely accuse other men of sexual harassment)? If anything, wouldn’t a false accusation from a male employee that they came onto them be even more damaging to their uber-religious reputation?

      4. Language Lover*

        I don’t think it’s fear of false accusations. I doubt that would be accommodated any more than “I don’t want to work with men because they might harass me” would.

        It’s more likely about their religious beliefs which has this policy because all women are, at our cores, evil temptresses dying to lead men astray and into disrespecting their wives….etc. Both thoughts are based in misogyny but only one excuse can point to a legal argument towards a company making the accommodation.

      5. MJ*

        “… they want it because they think women will falsely accuse them”

        So they think women are lying liars who lie and they have to protect themselves from women who are lying liars who lie ?

    2. Sarah N*

      Hard agree. And your use of the word “jezebels” here highlights an important problem with this type of policy, which is that it is inherently sexualizing half of the workers in your office (and not the other half). You are literally saying you don’t think you can control yourself from assaulting your female colleagues if you don’t put special rules in place. These sorts of attitudes mean you are not and cannot be an effective manager, full stop.

  22. Jigglypuff*

    I’m surprised at the positive reactions to update #1. It doesn’t seem like a solution at all… just a useless bandaid that male supervisors will circumvent by having off-the-books conversations, intentionally not hiring/adding women to their teams even if the skill sets are necessary, etc.

    I don’t know how any supervisor can be effective if they refuse to have 1:1 meetings with their direct reports.

    1. Jessen*

      I think half of us are just glad there was a response that acknowledged that’s definitely not ok and didn’t just go “meh it’s their beliefs what can we do?”

      1. Silamy*

        Pretty much. The bar is on the ground, but we were all expecting the office to trip over it anyway.

  23. learnedthehardway*

    OP#1 – this is a positive development, but I don’t think it really goes far enough to ensure an equitable workplace for all employees. It means that female employees with a McPatriarchy supervisor are being made responsible for fixing the issue.

    If you ask me, a far better solution would be that McPatriarchy is not allowed to hold a supervisory position so long as he isn’t able to treat his reports equally. As I understand it, accommodation for religious belief cannot override the requirement for a company to successfully implement gender equity. (There was a really good post about this in the original post’s community discussion.)

    1. learnedthehardway*

      ETA – the measure also leaves the following problems in place:
      – women still won’t be able to get mentoring, professional development or performance management from these male managers
      – male managers who follow this practice will tend to hire only male candidates to roles
      – female workers will have to take what they can get in terms of roles and supervisors – could be a different functional area, or a less experienced supervisor
      – regardless of intent, the fact is that a woman who objects to this IS going to be perceived as the person who complained
      – the company is failing to be proactive about enforcing gender equality, and is still at risk of being successfully sued for gender discrimination.

      1. Close Bracket*

        – women still won’t be able to get mentoring, professional development or performance management from these male managers

        Exactly! Women are still being shut out of the full range of professional development potentially available to them. It’s a great step, but it’s not enough.

    2. Sunshine Brite*

      Yes, it’s so hard sometimes to find that balance but it needs to be done. I know I see it play out at times in my area between religious practices/cultural norms of a different national origin based on gender.

  24. CMF*

    Remember, the greatest honor you can give your late dog is to give another dog a great home. It doesn’t mean you miss them any less, and I’m glad you found a cuddler. Dog’s instincts are amazing. I wish you much happiness together.

Comments are closed.