weekend open thread – December 5-6, 2020

by Alison Green on December 5, 2020

This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand.

Here are the rules for the weekend posts.

Book recommendation of the week: Mother Land, by Leah Franqui. An American newlywed in India tries to adjust to her mother-in-law moving in with her.

* I make a commission if you use that Amazon link.

You may also like:
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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder: Comments on the weekend threads should ask questions and/or seek to discuss ideas. Recommendations or an update on things you received advice about in the past are also fine. But please, no posts that are just venting or blog-style “here’s an update on my life.” Comments that violate this rule will be removed. Thank you!

    Full weekend rules are here:
    https://www.askamanager.org/weekend-open-thread-rules

  2. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Gift recommendation thread

    If you’re looking for ideas for gifts, ask for them here (describe who you’re shopping for/what kind of gift/etc.) or offer ideas for others! (Came from a suggestion further down.)

    1. Jujubee*

      I need some help getting a Christmas gift for my partner’s parents. I am absolutely blanking on what I got them in years past (I think it’s just stress recently—my memory has sucked the past few months.) My partner only has a vague idea of what their parents’ like and struggles with gifts for them too.

      Is there something that is universally liked by parents? My parents always request cash or gift cards now that we’re adults haha, so they’re not hard to shop for. My partner’s parents seem more sentimental. I do know they like wine, they like food they make from Martha Stewart recipes, and they like luxury linens (but…I don’t think I’m going to get them linens.) I think they enjoy knick knacks but I feel like the mom would enjoy it more if it fit her decor. I am not so great at judging that.

      My thought was going to a local market here and finding something artist made because they enjoy art generally, but I just want to get something they’d like. I could get nice wine too, but my parents are getting them that for Christmas. This shouldn’t be so stressful but I’d like to get it right. My partner isn’t so stressed and says they’ll like whatever I get, but I don’t know about that…

      Any advice for gift giving to your partner’s parents (or in-laws)?

      1. SunnySideUp*

        If they’re covid-cautious and staying home a lot what about a couple sophisticated/artist-designed puzzles? You can buy one ($50) that’s a front page of the NY Times for any day…

      4. Not A Manager*

        If they like cooking, what about a collection of nice ingredients? Depending on your budget and their tastes, I’m thinking something like three pretty oils, or a collection of Penzey’s spices, or fancy vanilla and dusting sugars. Those type of things tend to run a full range of prices and fanciness, so there are a lot of options.

          1. Aphrodite*

            I live in central coastal California, and will take friends to the small town of Los Olivos in the Santa Ynez valley. We always stop at Olive Hill Farm ( https://olivehillfarm.com/ ) for tastings of their oils and vinegars and buy some. They do ship as well.

          1. Morningstar*

            Mm, I love their Italian blend (with rosemary in it), have been making orange salmon with their bicentennial rub, and use their prime rib rub (yes to celery as an ingredient) for steak night.

            What do you think you’ll choose for your gift? And I’d be interested to know anybody’s favorites.

            1. Penzeys Please*

              We love their Northwoods (original and Fire) and Turkish seasoning blends! They’re great on oven-roasted veggies

              1. NoLongerYoung*

                I love Penzey’s. If it helps, I got a selection of their cinnamons for a gift when my husband died, and then a salt & pepper selection as a subsequent Christmas present. Their seasoning salt (in the latter) is amazing on roasted carrots for a savory turn, and I am sad I’m running out!

                1. pancakes*

                  Penzey’s is great. I got my stepdad a box of the low & no salt mixes the year he was told to cut down on that.

                  Zingermans is also great for food gifts.

            2. E. W.*

              They have to eat low-salt so thankfully they seem to have good options! Either the international or grilling sets? Now I want to get some for everyone, ha!

            3. SR*

              MURAL OF FLAVOR!! And I agree Northwoods is great. I also love Forward, and I used their Vindaloo curry in ANY recipe calling for curry, because it is so so yummy!
              If you have a pepper grinder, their tri-peppercorn blend is amazing. Also, their individual spices are typically superior to other brands — I especially love their Hungarian sweet paprika, Vietnamese cinnamon, and their onion powder.

          2. Penzeys Fan Too*

            Go online this weekend! You can buy a $50 gift card for $35 today & tomorrow at Penzeys.

            1. NoLongerYoung*

              I decided I’m giving those Penzey’s gift cards as gifts – THANK YOU for the heads up on the sale…
              and I bought 2 for myself, so I can go back later and get some of the recommendations here for myself. (The northwoods, the mural of flavor, and more… all sound delicious)

        3. pancakes*

          Snuk is great for this. Snukfoods dot com. They have an incredible tea selection in particular, also chili crisps, chili oil, hot sauce, coffee, olive oil, etc.

        1. Washi*

          Yeah slippers or especially nice socks, because those are easy to size. Or gloves! I like them for driving but am always losing them, so I’m thrilled when I get a nice pair.

      6. Just a PM*

        I’d stick to what you know, but put a little twist on it. You know they like wine, so how about a bottle of an international wine (like an Argentinean red or a fancy French white) or maybe a gift card to a local wine bar/vineyard?

      7. RosenGilMom*

        A custom jigsaw puzzle? Or perhaps a nicely framed photo of you and your partner, or the 4 of you all together?

      8. Tea and Sympathy*

        What about a virtual cooking class? Especially something gourmet, if they like Martha Stewart. I haven’t checked it out yet, but I read that Airbnb experience has some interesting virtual things offered.

      9. Ebb*

        I’ve always had very good results giving a Fashy brand (extremely well made and durable) hot water bottle. It’s just the sort of cozy thing for the winter, and you can buy it a fuzzy cozy to sweeten the deal. Everyone I’ve ever gifted one to has been extremely appreciative.

      10. allathian*

        I’m just so glad that we decided to skip exchanging gifts between adults a few years ago. All of us have enough stuff as it is, and just buying books from each other’s wish lists just became so much work in comparison with the pleasure that we seemed to get out of the gifts, so we decided to stop. I do realize that this isn’t an option in many families, but perhaps it’s worth thinking about as an option for the future?

        1. The New Wanderer*

          We decided that on my side for this year, no adult gift exchange (which was becoming a gift card exchange anyway). However, because of the pandemic and my mom’s compromised health, we haven’t been able to visit like we normally would. So I made a photo calendar and sent one to my parents, my sibling, and myself that heavily features the grandkids as well as our last big trip together at the start of 2020.

          In past years, we’ve tried one gift per household and drawing names, but the grandmothers tend to buy for everyone anyway and there’s a whole thing with stockings being a loophole for even more gifts… a lot of it ends up being things like notepads, chocolates, and fancy soap, but next year I should suggest only consumables for the adults.

      11. Pat Benetardis*

        If they don’t already have one, one of those Martha Stewart branded Dutch ovens (soldat macys).

        1. pancakes*

          Those are nice. I bought myself a forest green lasagne pan & a small red heart-shaped Dutch oven in the last big sale they had.

      12. Rare Commenter*

        I got my boyfriends parents a simple family portrait painted by a local artist. It’s one that’s just faceless. I noticed they didn’t have a ton of recent family pics and I know that they don’t enjoy gathering around for that. It was only $45, and it’s really unique and I know his mom enjoys the artists work. I also got to shop local. I’m slightly nervous that I’ve overstepped (I at least didn’t put myself in it!), but I actually think she’ll really enjoy it.

    2. Coenobita*

      Gift ideas please! I have a dear friend (more like a sibling) who is an extremely creative, crafty, handy person. He is also super frugal and kind of a minimalist so when we exchange gifts it’s more “here is a small but heartfelt token of my affection” rather than “I bought you this thing,” if that makes sense. For example, one year he made felted ornaments in the shape of a favorite animal; another year there were intricate folded paper decorations.

      Normally I would go with something cool or inside-jokey from a used bookstore or thrift shop, but of course browsing stores isn’t really a thing this year. Also, the gift will need to travel 3,000 miles by mail. If it weren’t for covid, we would probably be on a trip together right now so I’m feeling bummed out and want to send something fun. Any thoughts?

      1. Anono-me*

        Cool funky socks. Small, useful, easy to mail, and the design can be an inside joke or other personally meaningful image.

      2. Grits McGee*

        If you are ok with a gift card, maybe a gift card to a crafty/arty store that you know he likes/ is in his area? If you know what he’s into, you can maybe make it more special by specifying that it’s “$$$ for x craft”.

      3. I need tea*

        Gift kits for a new craft! If he likes candle making, try a soap kit. If he likes textile arts, try an embroidery kit. He likes paper decorations, so maybe some papermaking frames (he can recycle paper he doesn’t use any more, and dye it with food colouring). There are plenty of beginner’s/try this craft kits out there, and in case it ends up being something he enjoys, you might add a note saying if he enjoys it, maybe he coud show you how to do it together when you can spend time in person.

        If you’re not sure about a craft kit, a book on creativity like “conscious creativity” or “eco-thrifty” which involve budget friendly type crafts, or crafts that use up stuff you already have, or that are focused on sparking creative ways to do something new with your crafts might be welcome. (I haven’t read these myself, I just get them recommended to me because of the other crafty books I look at – those specific suggestions might be good for him, but I’m suggesting them more to give you ideas of the kinds of books to start looking at).

      4. OtterB*

        Some small travel thing, since you would like to be on your trip together? A nice blank journal that could be used as a travel journal or for whatever he would like? A multitool?

      5. Patty Benetardis*

        Do you have a local bakery from your hometown?ship some of their special cookies from childhood.

      6. pancakes*

        There’s a Canadian company called Lee Valley that sells nice & beautifully made tools. They ship to the US. Kaufmann Mercantile might have something, too.

        1. Colette*

          Lee Valley is awesome, and they have a lot of gadgety stuff, as well as books and kits (e.g. “everything you need to make wooden spoons”). They’re not cheap, but have good quality stuff.

          1. pancakes*

            I saw several books I’d like to receive myself, lol. Every year I find myself buying myself a gift, somehow.

    3. Inefficient Cat Herder*

      Thoughts on good sustainable/small business online places to shop for Christmas presents? I need presents for whole age range of people.

      I am in U.S.

      1. Texan In Exile*

        My friend Sharon has just started a new online business, bigearrings dot com.

        She is selling vintage earrings and handmade earrings from artists.

        I love the concept because if I have to cover half my face when I go out (which I actually like doing because my tetracycline-stained teeth are covered), then big earrings do the accessory trick! I mean, they would if I wore anything else but gym clothes.

      2. Grits McGee*

        Etsy is always a good starting point. Most stores will have their location, so you can ensure that you’re supporting a local business if that’s important to you.
        Also check to see if there are local Christmas markets in your area. Some of them have transitioned online for safe shopping.
        Also- place your orders as soon as possible. A lot of small businesses I follow on social media are stressing that aren’t Amazon, and their products take longer to ship because they are dependent on the whims of USPS/UPS/FedEx/etc and they are the only ones handling packaging/shipping.

      3. Aphrodite*

        Here are places I have bookmarked (besides Etsy):

        https://www.ebth.com/
        https://www.thegoodtrade.com/features/online-ethical-marketplaces
        https://www.serrv.org/
        https://www.fairtradewinds.net/
        http://www.globalstewards.org/fair-trade-shops.htm
        https://www.goldenhillstudio.com/collections/home-decor
        https://buyifyoucare.com/
        https://nelles-studios.square.site/
        https://sequoiasoaps.com/
        https://society6.com/
        https://yoursustainablehome.com/
        https://www.tenthousandvillages.com/
        https://www.theultimategreenstore.com/
        https://www.uncommongoods.com/
        https://www.vickerman.com/

        1. The Sweetgrass candle is espcially nice*

          I got some lovely soaps and candles from Sequoia as a gift recently (they are local to me) – I wholeheartedly recommend! Lovely product and always great to support an Indigenous-owned business :)

      4. ThatGirl*

        Ten Thousand Villages (tenthousandvillages dot com) specializes in fair trade and handmade items, mostly household decor, kitcheny things, accessories, toys etc.

      5. OtterB*

        The science fiction writer John Scalzi did his traditional series of Gift Guide posts this past week. Day 3 is for artists and musicians to post things they have for sale, so there will be a lot of interesting possibilities. (Day 1 was for traditionally published authors/editors, Day 2 for non-traditionally published authors/editors, Day 4 for fans to post the things they recommend, and Day 5 for charity recommendations). Here’s the link to Day 3: https://whatever.scalzi.com/2020/12/02/whatever-holiday-gift-guide-2020-day-three-arts-crafts-music-and-more/

      6. Fazl FTW*

        Fazl is a great company. They pay fair wages to local artisans in India to make by hand socks, hats and mittens. They also have some jewelery and bags. Half of the proceeds go to children’s home in India.
        http://www.shopfazl.com

      7. PX*

        Made51 is an online shop run by UNHCR (UN High Commission for Refugees) and everything they sell is made by refugees and helps give them an income/purpose. A bit pricey, but it all looks really really lovely.

        In a similar vein:
        – Ishkar . com
        – Earthheir . com
        – artisanandfox . com

        In a slightly different vein:
        – tentree . com (ethical/sustainable clothing)

      8. pancakes*

        Beautyhabit dot com – Name aside, I can always find something for men or women. Would be great for teen girls, too. Good for stocking stuff like candies, teas, etc. They also sell good quality unscented products.

        Zingerman’s for food gifts, as mentioned above, and The Meadow, a shop in the west village, NYC that sells fancy salts, chocolates, and bitters. They also have shops in some other cities, Portland and Tokyo and maybe another, and they ship.

      9. pancakes*

        Also Kazi, handmade & fair wage items from Africa. Kazigoods dot com. They have cool Christmas ornaments, too.

    4. Grits McGee*

      I need a book or (possibly kit) recommendation for my brother (30 yrs old).
      I’m hoping to encourage him to lean into his artistic side. He’s got a great eye for color and design and is really creative, but I think he suffers from low confidence because my mom and I are the designated “arty/crafty ones”. Since he hasn’t explicitly said he wants to get more arty, I’m looking for something low pressure- so not a manual or technique guide, or a creativity deep dive like The Artist’s Way. Ideally, it would be something like one of those “draw a thing every day” kind of low stakes journal, but without the pressure to develop a discipline, and some guidance for basic, instant-gratification exercises.
      Does anyone have suggestions? If it weren’t for COVID, I would go to the National Gallery bookstore so that I could review the whole book, but COVID….

      1. WellRed*

        I think those draw things journals can be fairly low key, unlike Artist’s Way. Or just a blank and some nice drawing pencils?

        1. Grits McGee*

          I think if I just gave a blank journal it might be too much of a hurdle. He does have a pack of colored pencils, so a book that could throw out ideas for experimentation would have the greatest chance of being used.

      2. tiny cactus*

        Do you think he would be interested in calligraphy? I think you can get a kit with a calligraphy pen or two, some nice paper and a little instruction book. It’s a bit more structured/practical than drawing materials but it can lead into card-making as well.

      3. Bittersweet_silver*

        Maybe an embroidery kit? I’ve found some on Etsy/local online shops that have the hoop, needle, floss, and pre-printed pattern on fabric with either stitch instructions or youtube videos with guidance. Artsy/creative and could open a new hobby/expand beyond using other people’s patterns eventually.

      4. Fellow Traveller*

        It’s not specifically about drawing, but Rob Walker’s book The Art of Noticing is a series of of short exercises/ challenges which are centered around helping you pay more attention to your surroundings. I think a lot of them could be translated into drawing or artistic prompts.
        There is also a series of books called “Wreck this Journal” that has prompts in it. It’s a little messy, but fun.

      5. Gift ideas*

        I enjoy the book 50 Things to Draw by Ed Tadem. It’s a series of drawing activities of different categories (Animals, Food, etc). He shows a picture he’s drawn, breaks it down into a few steps with some simple tips and then there’s a page for you to try. I like it because sometimes it’s hard to think of what to draw, good for practicing, and it’s pretty low stakes. I can just carry it around with a pencil, sharpener, and eraser.

      6. beach read*

        How about scrapbooking? Or card making? Maybe a book and a starter kit? So many ways to be creative with those!

    5. Mella*

      Oh, great idea!

      I need to buy gifts for two colleagues. There are several health/dietary issues among us, so food isn’t an option.

      I’ve used up my ideas in previous years: desk-sized decorated potted firs, state-specific candles, journals with monograms.

      Generally we have all stuck to ~50 dollars, but I don’t mind going above that for something impressive/unique as long as the price isn’t obvious.

      None of us share anything in common other than our jobs, which is why I’m struggling. One is a super-mom who spends all her time on her kids, and the other is a semi-professional artist in her spare time.

      1. WellRed*

        Hmm, tough one. Fun office supplies? I was just at Target and they had emoji sticky notes, maybe with pens and sharpies and some other “office survival” stuff that one wouldn’t ordinarily buy. I know last year on here someone mentioned some funny pencils with rather droll or sarcastic sayings.

      2. Grits McGee*

        Maybe nice writing utensils? Nicer pens and mechanical pencils can get pretty pricey, and you could supplement with monogrammed/personalized notepads or sticky notes.

      3. tiny cactus*

        A few things that went over well at my office’s gift exchange:
        –a nice teapot
        –a utility knife (depending on audience)
        –a set of beeswax wraps and/or reusable sandwich bags
        –a collection of flavored salts and/or spices (if not an issue for dietary restrictions)
        –a set of hand-made ceramic plates or mugs

      4. beach read*

        Food is out but what about beverages? Some nice wine, or a keepsake box of various teas or fancy coffees?

    6. Paris Geller*

      Oh, so happy to see this crowd-sourcing thread! I always have the hardest time buying gifts for my dad. He is retired and lives comfortable enough that he tends to buy whatever he wants. He also lives a pretty simple life and doesn’t have a ton of hobbies (though he does have a few). He also does not like when I spend $$ on him, so I try to keep my gifts to $30 or less.

      The two main hobbies he has is low-key woodworking (nothing extensive or fancy, but he likes making clocks/shelves, etc. out of wood), and bird watching. He doesn’t really like things that don’t serve a practical purpose. The two best gifts I’ve gotten him in the past few years that have gone over well have been a membership to Project Feederwatch and a magnetic wristband for when he’s working with tools.

      1. WellRed*

        How about a bird feeder kit or pattern to build one? I’m assuming he has binoculars and bird watching guides already.

        1. Paris Geller*

          I thought I put this in my original comment, but he already has made some bird feeders and has binoculars & bird watching guides (many of which have been presents from me over the past few years. . . )

          He also has a DSLR he loves to use, but he has pretty much all of the accessories I can think of that would go with that, and most would be over my budget.

      2. Lifelong student*

        Rare earth magnets- they pick up anything- like nails that fall on the floor- they are sort of cool!

      3. Formerly in HR*

        Cornell Lab Bird Academy had a list of online birding courses. Last weekend they were reduced for BF/Cyber Monday, but even at full price some topics were appealing – like how to recognise the various types of ducks, something about owls….

        1. Paris Geller*

          Oh, these are awesome! I think one of these might be the ticket–something useful, not physical (clutter) and in line with his hobbies. The bird photography ones are way out of my budget, which is too bad because I know my dad would love those, but even the affordable options look great.

          1. Formerly in HR*

            I looked at the photo course and was not sold on it. It sounded like a lot of content was to be spent on what camera to choose rather than how to use what you have to get some well focused photos. Of course, that is all based on the description, but while the one for the duckies got me to take the wallet out, the photo one didn’t.

          2. Aphrodite*

            I just googled “adult education bird photography” and came up with, among others, this class from Madison Audubon, “How to Get That Shot: A Virtual Introduction to Wild Bird Photography.” It can be found here and is only $15 a person: https://madisonaudubon.org/naturalists/2020/5/18/beginning-bird-photography

            Here is the link to my google efforts: https://www.google.com/search?q=adult+ed+online+bird+photography&oq=adult+ed+online+bird+photography&aqs=chrome..69i57.7655j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

      4. Washi*

        If he likes to go out hiking and birdwatching, maybe a set of connectors that let you attach your binoculars to your backpack? There’s a set for $9 at bhphotovideoDOTcom that I’ve been eyeing, because I like the idea of a binocular harness, but it would be too much along with a backpack.

      5. Fellow Traveller*

        What about a park pass (National, State Or County, if in the US) so that he can spend time outside birding or taking nature photos?

      6. ImOnlyHereForThePoetry*

        Is there an arboretum nearby? A gift membership to one would make a great present

      7. Not So NewReader*

        You might want to check out the Lee Valley Tools website. There’s stuff for the kitchen also. I have found them to be reasonably priced and I have been satisfied with their stuff in the past. They are one of my favs.

      8. Keener*

        My dad sounds similar. Has a few hobbies but has all the supplies or I don’t know what specific items he needs. I’ve realized that he isn’t good asset using Amazon so now I order him a new water colour painting technique book for every occasion. I’ve been doing this for years and they are still a bit everytime. You could do something similar for his hobbies.

      9. Birds, birds*

        What about signing up together for the Christmas Bird Count or the Great Backyard Bird Count? Could be fun, and add in meaningful ways to data on birds locally & nationally.

    7. Aphrodite*

      I’ve made three gift bags for my realtor, banker and best friend who have and are helping me so much with my first home purchase. I simply could not do it without them. I bought some black gift bags with gold lettering (“Thank. you”) in script and have filled them with a picture of this ( https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lumL-Aehiag/UZ8wSHPG5iI/AAAAAAAAC44/qOiH88lFBOo/s1600/Funny+Vintage+Photos+(26).jpg ) on which I wrote “You light up my life, [name]. Nestled inside black tissue paper are mostly rechargeable flashlights and a lantern. Why flashlights? Great emergency things to have and useful for everyone. I included the following ones:

      (1) Tough Light: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D5I0EBI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      (2) Mini Maglight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006WNPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      (3) Rechargeable flashlight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PHQF4HY/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      (4) LED Headlight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QGRWZNB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      (5) Keychain flashlight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZPQMLSV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      (6) Keychain Saying: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XMGDYC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    8. CatCat*

      Kind of spendy, but having now had a robot vacuum for a couple weeks, I feel like it would be an awesome gift for people who hate vacuuming or need to vacuum often and don’t have the time.

    9. Bluebell*

      This week I bought gifts for several family members from The Women’s Bean Project. They have a great range of healthy food options, including some gluten free, plus dog treats and a bit of jewelry. They also run a training program for women in the Denver area. So glad I found out about them!

      1. Aphrodite*

        I just looked up the Women’s Bean Project–and it’s wonderful! I am ordering from there. Thanks so much for the recommendation.

    10. Kristin*

      Help please. My partner is impossible to shop for, and not only is Christmas coming, but his birthday is in December. He is extremely frugal and minimalist. His parents have given up shopping for him and told him to but himself stuff with their credit card. He can’t even figure something to buy himself that he wants. His main hobbies are vintage computers (think commodore 64) and playing with our cat. In the past I’ve gotten him experiences we can do together, but it’s 2020. I did get a smart pet camera/treat dispenser for his bday, but still need a Christmas gift.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Is there a particular food that he likes but rarely buys because of expense or time in preparing?

        1. Kristin*

          He’s on the Keto diet, but my family (on my suggestion) is already getting him a gift basket of Keto friendly snacks. He does also like horror and Dungeons and Dragons. Experiences have been escape rooms, and tickets to a vintage computer convention that’s in our area annually. For our anniversary I got him a “season” to Hunt a Killer ( if you haven’t heard of it, it’s like an extended escape room you do at home.) But we’re still working through it, so it doesn’t make sense to do another season yet.

          1. Anono-me*

            For Dungons and Dragons: What about vintage collectable D&D items? Or a really nice set of dice ($10-$200)? He might like a Magic the Gathering card game starter set (D&D type card game that can be played in 20 minutes or much longer. Fun for people who like strategy games even if they don’t know much about D&D)

            For Horror: A passing acquaintance told me about a charity fundraiser where they paid to be an extra in a movie. Maybe you could find one for a horror movie. Many authors will auction/raffle off the chance to name a character in a book. Maybe you can find a favorite author doing this.

      3. Might Be Spam*

        My daughter found a mood light, a trinket box, and a wall clock all made out of computer circuit boards. I love them.
        I have some very old circuit boards that I put lights behind. I also take shiny computer parts and hang them on my nerdy Christmas tree. I use a red ethernet cord as a garland.

      4. tiny cactus*

        My go-to gift for the minimalist person is a multitool (Leatherman is the brand I like based on semi-extensive research). Comes in useful quite a lot and just kind of feels helpful to have around.

        For an at-home “experience,” in my city you can book a trivia company to do customized trivia for an online event, and they’ll include a bunch of questions on topics you choose. Not sure if you can find something similar, but if he has specialized interests, he might find it fun to do a custom trivia night.

        1. Anono-me*

          Mulitools are wonderful. They make a great gift for almost everyone.

          Leatherman is the original big name in mulitools. I like their high end stuff.

          I also like Gerber across all the price points.

          A comfort aspect that is important to me is how the handles ‘face’. When you open up most mulitools, they look like needle nose pliers with a pair of swiss army knives as handles or an upside down “Y”. If the knife, saw, screwdriver can be accessed from the outside of the handle; then the edges of the outside of handle will be a trough with narrow sides and 90 degree corners . This hurts when you need to put pressure on something. If the saw, knife, screw driver etc. can be accessed from the inside of the handle, the outside is usually rounded and comfortable.

      5. pieforbreakfast*

        A nice sweater or Pendleton shirt maybe? They last forever and are great for layering and outdoors.

      6. Workerbee*

        Love Commodore 64! Are there any games he’s missing, or components, either for the C64 or others? A better joystick or bits and pieces to make his own? :) I always wore the store bought ones out but the one a friend made out of a box and parts was superb. /nostalgia

        There’s also the emulator side of things though so far I’ve found downloads for free.

      7. anon64*

        ooooh i might be late on this one, but does he do a lot of restoration? a new or upgraded soldering setup, or a desoldering gun, might be nice! is there a parts store he buys from frequently, either online or in person? hardware parts storage containers might also be nice! a fancy toolbox? i’m a keyboard enthusiast who has dabbled in retro computers and i’d like any of those things. if he’s frugal and minimalist, that might be the kind of upgrade he’d avoid buying for himself but would make things nicer

    11. Nynaeve*

      For people who love sending handwritten letters and cards, I heartily recommend the hand-stitched fabric notecards at Pelham’s Paperie (https://www.pelhamspaperie.com/). There are a ton of designs and I always have to stop myself from buying too many. (I’ve bought 14 boxes so far during 2020.) Everyone I’ve sent the cards to has raved about how beautiful they are and how much getting one brightened their day.

      You can give them as gifts or get some for yourself and use them to keep in touch with friends and family – or for the handwritten notes to bosses and colleagues that Alison always recommends :)

    12. Aurora Leigh*

      Best gift idea I’ve had this year is the sushi making kit I’m putting together for my husband. (Kit with mats, cookbook, all the dry ingredients so well just have to get meat and veg at the store). We used to go out for suishi on occasion but with COVID that’s not happening. Ended up being about $75 to put together.

      1. pancakes*

        MTC Kitchen is a great place to buy this sort of thing. It’s also where I buy all my dishware. MTCkitchen dot com.

    13. Always Late to the Party*

      Santa needs to bring socks for both me and my husband – mostly day-to-day ankle socks. I would like to avoid giving all my Christmas money to Jeff Bezos this year. Does anyone have any ideas for US-based small businesses (bonus points for BIPOC owned) where I could order basic socks online?

      I tried SockDreams in Portland, OR and they didn’t seem to have a great collection of casual socks for larger feet.

        1. pancakes*

          Those are comfortable. I’ve bought myself a couple pairs and would be very happy to receive more.

    14. Cruciatus*

      In case it helps anyone with a gift idea, I’m getting some people a painting kit from Painting to Gogh–the kind that you’d do it a Cocktails and Colors event. They have a bunch of different paintings you can choose from, they send you the kits, but also a link to the tutorials which people can watch online and over Zoom so people can still have the fun of painting together.

      They have Starter and Essential kits (the Starter kit includes the paints, but also an easel and paintbrushes, the Essential kit is just the paints). If you put something in your cart and leave it there, you may get an email with a 10% off code (which for me was FIRSTGOGH).

    15. Scott D*

      My spouse and I have been very fortunate during the pandemic. I had to forego a raise, but other than that we are doing OK. We decided this year to only do stockings and to take all the money we would normally spend on gifts for each other and for our home, double it and donate it to three of our favorite charities so that is what we did.

      For stocking stuffers, though, my spouse LOVES The Mandalorian so I found a moveable, talking “Baby Yoda” (Yes, I know it’s not really baby Yoda but I’m always going to call it that) and put it at the bottom of his stocking. On top of it is a bunch of other small, but sometimes hard to find things like a roll of toilet paper (with a politician’s face on it–I won’t say which one but you can probably guess) and some soap with a semi-naughty name.

      Can’t wait to see his face when he finds the baby Yoda!

  3. Good Doggo*

    Being on lockdown, I’ve been taking long walks around my neighborhood down streets I don’t normally pass, one with a house with a dog. This dog, a huge black dog that appears old (gray around the muzzle) seems to spend most of its time outside. No matter what time of day I walk by or if I walk past multiple times in an hour or more, I see this dog outside in the yard. I didn’t think much of it during the summer and unusually warm fall but the weather has finally turned to biting winter cold and I still see the dog outside a lot. This week, it’s been rainy too and I still see the dog outside more often than not.

    The dog does not appear otherwise neglected. It’s not skinny, it’s actually quite a big chunky dog, so it’s not going hungry. It’s not bound to a metal chain but has free reign of a huge yard, though no dog house or covering from the elements I can see in the front yard. The fence goes all the way around the house so the dog can walk to the backyard behind the house. For all I know, it has a doggie door, warm bed, and food bowls out of sight that I can’t see but I still feel a little concerned to see the dog sitting in the front yard all the time. Once when I walked by, I saw the next door neighbor tossing potato chips to the dog who ate them. The guy was eating them too so I wasn’t sure if he knows the dog and was just slipping him a couple chips (I would do that with a dog I actually know) or if he was doing it out of actual concern that the dog wasn’t getting fed.

    I’ve never met this neighbor or even seen them, I don’t know anyone on this particular street so I can’t ask around. Should I do anything or just leave it be? I’ve been thinking of leaving an anonymous note in their mailbox expressing my concern. Calling Animal Control seems extreme when the dog does not appear at death’s door, all I have is mild concern. What do you think?

      1. codex*

        Seconded! Strike up a conversation if you ever see the owner neighbor or see the chip-tossing one again. Ask about Good Dog’s name or favourite chip and learn more from there. :)

    2. Pennyworth*

      I understand your concern but as you describe the situation it sounds as though the dog is accustomed to living that way. If it was distressed or hungry it would probably try to interact more with people walking by. As for the cold weather, some dogs are have built in insulation (think huskies sleeping in the snow) and most are a lot tougher that we imagine. The current fashion for dressing dogs in all sorts of garments is on the whole completely unnecessary. I don’t think I’d call animal control based on the current situation, but perhaps you could call them for advice. It is kind of you to care about him.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        Yes, huskies and similar other breeds often want to be outside, especially in the winter. They are waiting indoors in the a/c all summer for the return of cold weather so that they can hang out in the snow.

        I would worry if the dog was very thin, but it has a lot of insulation. I feel very sorry for obese dogs but I wouldn’t be surprised if the neighbor is feeding junk food often.

        If you see the neighbor then you could ask to confirm that the dog has access to shelter, either with a doggy door to the house or a shelter outside. But someone who mistreats their dog tends to do so out of view, and the fact that this dog has a fence that encloses the entire yard and the dog is often out front makes me think that the owners have nothing to hide.

        1. Sled dog mama*

          My two malamutes have gotten animal control called on us a couple of times when we had a foot of snow and they refused to come inside. They just wanted to lounge outside in the cold snow. I’m not a small person but I’m not strong enough to carry 90 lbs of wiggling dog into the house when it wants to be outside in the snow. Fortunately the animal control officers in my area stopped for the first call and said they had to check, now they just drive by and wave, assuming they are just checking it’s still us and that we still have snow dogs and haven’t gotten a Chihuahua. They did stop once a couple years ago when they got a new officer to introduce him to our dogs.

          1. Bookslinger In My Free Time*

            We have a Husky-Pyrenees puppy (if at 90 pounds and three feet tall he can still be considered a puppy). As soon as it cooled off, he started refusing to come in. He comes in long enough to eat and drink and that’s it. We live out in the boonies near farmers so I have no worries about animal services being called, but when we have a delivery the best any of us can do is stand outside and assure the delivery person that he won’t eat them, but he also won’t leave them alone.

          2. Coenobita*

            Yep, my neighbor’s samoyed is SO happy that it’s finally cold. I think he has been gradually bringing all his stuff out into the yard as he spends more time out there – the past week or so, every time I walk by he is curled up snoozing on the lawn surrounded by toys. (Sometimes he will wake up long enough to come to the fence to get pets and show me his latest bone.)

            1. Not A Girl Boss*

              Yep, we have an eskimo dog. She looks like a little lap dog but would live outside in the winter if we let her. We have been having a lot of conversations with her lately about “inside toys” vs “outside toys”

              1. Coenobita*

                LOL, judging from the number of stuffies in the yard, I suspect my neighbor has lost the “inside toy” vs “outside toy” battle!

          3. Natalie*

            Someone in my neighborhood has a sled dog breed and they put a laminated explainer on their fence because so many people have called animal control. (Animal control knows them so it’s not a big hassle for them anymore, just a waste of everyone’s time.)

            1. Elizabeth West*

              That’s a good idea.

              I saw a post a while back about a really weird horse that would sleep lying down and people knocked all day on his owners’ front door because they thought he was dead, lol.

              1. Lonely Aussie*

                Been in that situation a few times where I used to keep my old girl. One year we had three separate people post on the local lost pets page about “Ace” who did a very good impression of a dead horse. It’s a difficult thing, cause on one hand you’re happy people notice and care but on the other it can get super annoying to deal with especially if people feel the need to enter the paddocks to check. Ace was pretty chill but someone waking him from a dead sleep could very easily get a hoof to the face if he got a fright.

                1. Pippa K*

                  If I ever write a list of tips for newcomers to rural areas, it’s going to include “horses sleep lying down.” (Also, “exchange phone numbers with your neighbors,” “leave a gate the way you found it,” and “even if you don’t hunt, learn when hunting season is.”)

          4. university minion*

            Right? And now that my husky is older, if she falls asleep outside and it starts to rain, she’s often sleeping soundly enough that the rain doesn’t wake her up. Her fur is thick to the point that it takes a LOT of rain to be wet to the skin.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Let it go. At our last place, which had a front and a back yard, my dog would beg to go outside at all times and in all weather, just to lie in the sun or sniff things and watch the world go by. It’s his favorite thing to do.

      Unless the dog is barking or whining incessantly or looking neglected, with a ratty coat or skin and bones, just leave it. The chips thing? Chips aren’t usually considered bad for dogs, especially if it’s just a couple.

      1. Saturday*

        My dog is the same — in fact she often wakes me up in the morning not because she’s hungry or needs to do her business but because the sun has risen, and thus it’s a good time to be outside! I don’t leave her out unsupervised because she’s just a little too incorrigible, but she would definitely love the life you described.

    4. Lora*

      My Newfie used to do that – refuse to go back in the house after her walk. She could go in the barn for shelter, food and water, but mostly she just chilled out in the front yard smiling at people and enjoying the sun. She LOVED snow, cold didn’t bother her unless it was well below zero. Occasionally someone would pat her and call me to worry if she was okay, so I left the side door unlocked and told them if they were super worried they could let her in themselves but she could go in the barn if she needed anything. Only once did anyone take me up on it – they didn’t know it was her yard/house and thought she was in someone else’s yard (even though the address was on her tag and the house is clearly marked). She passed away six years ago and I miss her terribly still, she was a sweet girl.

      Now I have two Pyrs who also stay out most of the day but fenced in the backyard. They can go in the barn through the back entrance and prefer to bark like demons at anyone they can see through the fence. Some dogs are really built to handle weather, mine are good down to about 10F and they don’t like rain or sleet but snow is their favorite. Big fluffy dog is probably fine.

      1. Juneybug*

        I had a Newfie-German Shepard mix and he too, loved being outdoors. We live in the Pacific Northwest so rain and cold happens all the time but again, couldn’t get our dog to stay out of the weather. Purchased and built different types of dog houses so he could have a warm place to hang out/sleep but nope, he was not going in them, not even for treats. We tried bringing him into the house to sleep or visit but again, he wanted outside. He was perfectly content to slept outside under the patio on a bed (designed to be off the cold cement). The patio had a roof but was still open.
        It worked for him cause he lived for 17 years. I miss my 75 lb baby. RIP Harley.

    5. Please Exit Through The Rear Door*

      If the dog appears happy and nourished, my opinion is that there’s no action to take here. My suggestion is to take a different route when walking, so you don’t have to think about it anymore.

    6. Jules the 3rd*

      Please don’t leave an anonymous message! You don’t know enough to justify worrying his owners like that. If there’s a problem, the neighbor can say something. If he cares enough to hang out with and feed the dog, then he’s gonna care about the dog’s well being.

      1. Tabby*

        I would suggest adjing at the house if you’re really worried — as ithers have said, sometimes dogs just like being outside most of the time. I’ve walked a few who I had to literally drag back inside when the walk time was over, because they wanted to stay out, especially the sled dog types. Sitting inside all the time can be boring for some dogs.

    7. LQ*

      I’m going to echo what everyone else has said, I don’t think there’s a problem here. It’s biting cold to you but there are lots of dogs that are very happy in this weather. I’m not sure how cold it actually is where you are but I doubt it’s actually in any kind of danger zone for most dogs. The dogs I grew up with were all totally thrilled to be outside more and more as it was cold. I’d also say that for dogs a fenced in huge yard likely offers multiple places that would be protection from the elements (just moving to the correct side of the house can make 10 degrees difference or more). Just because it’s uncomfortable for you doesn’t mean the dog is uncomfortable. (Also the neighbor eating chips and tossing them over the fence to the dog is an adorable image, one for me, one for you, one for me, one for you.)

      1. Uranus Wars*

        I agree with the dog eating the chips thing! My first reaction was awwww……and, you said it was a neighbor so he was probably doing the same as you said – it might even be their little daily ritual – I can hear, in my happiest dog voice…”Time to go have chips with Joe!”

        And I echo what others are saying. Even when it would snow and be 10 degrees out my cat, yes CAT, would beg to go outside and she would sit on the doormat in the snow. Some animals just love the outdoors, no matter what the elements! As long as it’s healthy, try not to worry!

    8. RagingADHD*

      A large chunky dog with a huge fenced yard to roam likes to sit contentedly in front of the house and watch people walking down the street?

      And there’s a neighbor who is so well acquainted with the dog that they share snacks?

      This is not a problem. Leave it alone.

      2. Mella*

        Agreed. I grew up in a farming family, and this trend of coddling dogs is really eye-rolly. Living anywhere other than inside a purse does not equal neglect.

        1. ....*

          That’s a little ungenerous. Some people spoil their dogs- how does that harm you at all? It doesn’t.

          1. Mella*

            LOL, where did I say anything about being personally harmed? I pointed out that a trend picks up steam, people forget that alternatives are valid. Thus, you know, the original post–a dog that appears well-nourished and acts friendly with strangers is often outside, which OP worries is unacceptable.

            1. Dog and cat fosterer*

              To be fair to the OP, the concern was mostly about a lack of an obvious shelter, which is valid. There is likely one in the backyard, but they don’t know for certain. If there was a doghouse in the front yard then I doubt there would have been a post. I volunteer with rescue and there are plenty of neglected and mistreated dogs so it’s fair to ask.

              To your comment about skewing what is normal, I find it irritating that people think dogs are underfed when they aren’t overweight. If a dog is sleek and you can’t see their ribs then they are not malnourished! I am careful about keeping my dog a perfect weight so the joints stay healthy and avoid early arthritis, and this does not make me a bad owner.

          2. Annie Moose*

            It can harm the dog, is the thing. Feeding a dog inappropriately, keeping it in temperatures that are uncomfortable for the dog (but comfortable for humans), not training it properly, not exercising it appropriately… a lot of things people do to “treat” or “spoil” their dogs are actually bad for dogs.

            (which is not to say that all forms of “spoiling” are bad, of course–just that there is a trend of treating dogs like humans, except dogs aren’t humans, they’re dogs. They have different needs and desires than us–such as many breeds being perfectly comfortable outdoors in temperatures humans find cold–and this should be respected!)

    9. ....*

      I would just talk to them. We used to have an outdoor dog and she hated coming inside even in the snow she’d go in her doghouse. She never ever wanted to come in. She had super thick fur though and even if she got wet her actual skin would be dry underneath. Idk she just loved outdoors and probably wouldn’t even have come in if we offered her treats.

    10. cookie monster*

      I have a dog with a dog door. Every time she hates someone outside, she bounds out to say hello. From the perspective of someone walking by, they can’t see the dog door, and would assume she is always outside, because she goes out any time someone walks by, even if otherwise she is inside. I wouldn’t worry to much since the dog seems healthy.

  4. A.N. O'Nyme*

    Writing thread! How’s everyone’s writing going?
    As usual, this thread is not limited to fiction writing.
    I had more free time this week so I got some more light-hearted fanfiction writing done, which I’m happy about.
    For the NaNoWriMo participants: did you reach your goal? How was your experience?

    1. Julia*

      I am making veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow progress with my novel. NaNoWriMo did not work for me at all, but I am currently at ~9000 words and think I’ll get more down once I’m a) over the beginning phase and b) have some more time off work.

    2. Nela*

      I wrote a ton of articles this week, but haven’t worked on my manuscript revision at all :/
      Obviously I have the time to write, but I keep having affairs with the smaller stuff instead of working on my most important long-term project.

    3. Kali*

      I’m working on a statistics assignment for uni. I’m doing an MSc in Bioarchaeology, and the question I’m trying to answer is, why are the people buried in cemetery A taller than those in cemetery B? A and B are 600m apart at most and were in concurrent use for a few decades (around 400ad) before A was phased out and B continued to be used. It’s surprisingly interesting. That’s around the time the Roman Empire retreated from Britain and Proto-Germanic tribes began to migrate. In school (25 years ago!) I was taught that the Angles and Saxons almost wiped out the native Britons (“Celts”, but they wouldn’t have called themselves that or thought of themselves as a collective group), pushing them into (what is now) Wales and Cornwall. It turns out, that while story is almost entirely based on the writings of St Gildas, who lived decades later and was writing to preach, not to record. There are many possibilities, but one of them is that listening to him is like asking Britain First for a history of Islam in Britain. There is evidence of conflict – war graves, fines for harming Britons less than for Saxons, etc – but also lots of evidence for life just carrying on as normal, like farming continuing uninterrupted and these two cemeteries being in use concurrently. There was a big culture shift at the time, which was thought to involve a population change, but we *know* they don’t have to go together. After all, Christianity spread at that time culturally, not by replacing entire populations. I’m watching an American TV show right now, I haven’t been invaded by a Republican army.
      Modern genetic evidence indicates modern Britons do have indegenous British DNA and are only 10-40% Anglo-Saxon or Danish (could not distinguish, and we know parts of England were under Danelaw later).

      I struggled a bit at first, but with graphs and judicious use of tables, I turned the 1000 word limit into 9 pages so far, with 300 words left. I have more to do, but I’m using timelines and maps, e.g., “we know X happened throughout England (figure Y), so….”. And then figure Y is a map with all the times X happened, with dates next to the dots and references in the caption so it doesn’t add to my word count.

    4. LQ*

      I decided I’m going to write a never to be published article about my experience of the pandemic as a kind of catharsis. So I’ve been throwing notes down about it. I’m not actually sure it’s good for my brain, and at this rate I’m going to have to super lock it down, but it feels good to flex that muscle.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Congrats to everyone who did NaNoWriMo. Whether you hit the goal or not, you got started, and did work, and that’s the whole point!

      There was a call for subs to a horror anthology on Twitter with a very tight timeline, so I cranked out something. Don’t know if it will be accepted or not; they got a lot of submissions. I hope so bc it’s paid and I could use the money. I read it to my sister while she was here visiting Mom in the hospital, and she liked it.

      I also got Book 2 back from my editor but with all the disruption around Mom, I haven’t looked at the edits yet. Even though she said it was “great,” the longer I wait, the more scared I am to look, haha. I’d originally said January as a release date, but I think it’s going to be more like April. :P

    6. WattyWriterAnon*

      I didn’t win the Watty Awards 2020. But I did join the undiscovered gems group (or similar) run by a fan who makes YouTube vids promoting a new undiscovered novel each time. Sad I missed my chance to get published (only a 0.15% chance), but I’ve gotten exposure, and someone added my works to their library in the past 24 hrs(!). I write for a tiny fandom too. Besides that, 2 short story fanfics in progress, and a multi chapter in the works. I’ve also gotten the fandom’s celebrity fans following me (which is crazy). So, progress of a sort? :)

  5. A.N. O'Nyme*

    Gaming thread! What’s everyone been playing this week?
    As usual, this is not limited to video games or “real games” (whatever that means anyway), feel free to talk about any game you like. Also feel free to ask for recommendations or help trying to track down a vaguely remembered game.
    Between the Sherlock Holmes games I also got in some Reigns: Her Majesty, which is basically a not-entirely-serious kingdom management game where you swipe left or right to make decisions, kinda like Tinder, and it’s a lot of fun. Expect to die. A lot. Mainly because you sometimes have to in order to advance the story. Expect to die in ridiculous ways, too.

    1. RowanUK*

      I’m finishing up Assassin’s Creed:Syndicate. I started playing the series in August and – hilariously – thought I could catch-up on all of the 11 games before Valhalla launched …nope!

      I have to say, I put off playing the series because I didn’t think I’d enjoy it, but it’s been amazing. I love the use of history, the settings and all of the protagonists. The music is brilliant too. It’s honestly helped me get through the last few months of the pandemic quite a bit. I’m especially fond of Syndicate, so it’s taking me ages to finish.

      I did start Valhalla when it came out, but I think I should really play the other two more epic AC games before diving into Valhalla properly.

    2. CoffeeforLife*

      Any recs for games to play with precocious 8/10 year olds but also fun for adults? The family has most of the mainstream games so maybe not something I can grab at Target.

      1. Nicole76*

        Pictionary or Taboo if those aren’t one of the mainstream games they already have. Seems all ages enjoy those games. UNO also.

        1. CoffeeforLife*

          Thank you, but they have those. Along with Life, Sorry, several monopolies, skip bo, dos, dominoes, clue, jenga, etc. Basically all the games you can find at a regular store. It’s tough :)

          1. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

            Do they have Monopoly Deal among their monopolies? That’s a big hit with all ages at our house.

      2. Curly sue*

        Is Catan officially mainstream now? My kids kicked my *butt* at Catan Jr, and now Catan itself. Precocious 8/10 would probably be good with basic Catan, and it’s a lot of fun for adults as well.

        1. Curly sue*

          My kids are 13 and 9 right now and we do a lot of gaming… Labyrinth is a favourite, as is Forbidden Island and that line of co-op games. We play Merchants and Marauders, but that’s a full snow-day game due to lengthy setup and slowish turns. Pandemic might hit too close to home these days, or it could be a jumping off point for discussion – it’s another good co-op game for groups.

          1. Curly sue*

            I keep thinking of others as soon as I hit send! “King of Tokyo” is a kaiju board game where you get to be Godzilla-type creatures fighting each other for control of a city (I believe they also did King of New York, similar concept.) Also smash-up, which is a card game – aliens and dinosaurs vs laser zombies and such. It’s cute.

            1. curly sue*

              I checked with my kids and they insisted that I add “Llamas Unleashed” (also Unstable Unicorns, which is very similar), and if they’re into D&D at all, Munchkin is a very silly card game – but it works better if you’re familiar with tabletop gaming tropes. Grave Robbers From Outer Space is similar in that the mechanics are simple, but the humour lands better if you’re familiar with 20th century horror tropes.

              There’s a great site called Boardgamegeek which has *piles* of reviews and recommendations, if none of these quite hit the sweet spot!

      3. Holly the spa pro*

        I don’t know if this is mainstream, ive seen it at target but Exploding Kittens. My step son loved it when he was around that age and we still play it sometimes years later.

      4. Professor Plum*

        Carcassone—you draw a tile each turn and play it to build the game. There are cities, roads and fields—play depends on matching what’s already there in a puzzle-like manner, while building areas you want to add your tokens to. It’s a great intro to strategy for that age—my nephews and nieces started playing and loved it at the ages of your kids. And it’s great for adults too. Just looked at it on Amazon—good pictures and game play description there. Highly recommend it for anyone!

      5. Jackalope*

        A friend got me Simon’s Cat the card game a few years ago for Christmas, and I loved it. I’ve played it with all ages from about 5-adult. It’s a little bit like Uno, although simpler and faster. It’s listed as being for 3-6 players, which gives a bit more flexibility than a lot of games that are up to 4 people. What I like about it is a) the silly Simon’s Cat drawings (which have amused everyone I’ve played with); b) it’s super quick, so it’s a nice game to play if you just have 15-30 min, say right before bed, and you don’t want to risk getting drawn into a super long game; c) no violence or world conquest.

        I’ve also had good rounds of Ticket to Ride with some kids that I knew that were super into it. It’s a bit longer, but the nice thing about Ticket to Ride is that you can play it at a super simple level or an advanced strategy level based on your age and still enjoy it; you’ll still do decently if you’re younger, but you can get more out of it as you get older. Not as familiar with this one as with the Simon’s Cat game, though.

      6. Stephanie*

        Ooh! My family has played Train Dominoes for years together–grandparents, parents and kids. It’s a lot of fun, and my kids, who are now 19 and 22, still enjoy it. They started playing it with their cousins and grandparents when they were around 8 or 10.

      7. Washi*

        Not sure if these count as mainstream, but I really like Azul and Splendor as an adult. Also if anyone likes animals, Cardline Animals is incredibly simple with basically no setup, but also quite fun for me even as an adult.

        I think Codenames, especially the picture version, might work for a precocious 8 year old. Would definitely teach some good logic/strategy skills!

      9. Kristin*

        Ticket to Ride, though that is becoming more mainstream and actually is available at Target. I think the recommended age on the box is 12 and up, but it should be fine if they’re as precocious as you say and are experienced in board games. If you’re unsure there is also a junior version.

      10. Games!!*

        My son loves 5 Minute Dungeons. It’s better with 4-5 players, but we’re a family of 3 and still have fun playing it. He also loves Catan. One of my favs is Blokus but we don’t get to play as much because you really need 4 players. So before the pandemic, I used to force my parents to play with us when they would come and visit. HA! Code Names is another great game, but may be better for slightly older kids. It says from ages 14+, but we’ve played it with 10 year olds. 8 may be a bit young though.

    3. Holly the spa pro*

      Not much time for games this week but im still bouncing between fire emblem 3h and sakuna. Im kind of struggling to get into this fire emblem game. Fates was one of my favorite games of all time so maybe i had unrealistic expectations for this one. Im still really early into the game so im going to keep it moving and see how it goes.

    4. LQ*

      I’m going to throw out a very specific recommendations request. Long ago I played a game on iOS called GODUS and I loved it. It’s a world exploring, building kind of game that had a fantastic feature where you sculped the world. I understand that there are blocky versions of this game, but I’m looking for one that has that incredibly smooth look rather than the super blocky look. Building up and down the land was entirely my favorite part of the game and so the blocky versions don’t appeal to me at all.

    5. Dr.KMnO4*

      I really need to learn that when I watch my husband play a game, I shouldn’t say, “I’ll never play that game.” Every time I’ve done that I’ve ended up playing the game, sometimes even putting more time into it than he has. E.g. Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Hades.

      I’ve been playing Hades on the Switch a LOT lately. It’s a rogue-lite game by Supergiant Games. The story is really cool, the gameplay loop is borderline addicting, the combat is tough but fun and rewarding when you figure it out, and there’s a mode to make things a bit easier if you are struggling to progress. As with all Supergiant games, the art style is gorgeous and the music is perfect.

      1. Alice Ulf*

        I bought a Switch Lite specifically to play Hades, and it’s the best decision I’ve made maybe all this year, haha. I’ve done nothing but play for the last two weeks and the novelty still hasn’t worn off.

        Also it took
        fifty
        SIX
        runs for Thanatos to show up, but still. Worth it. ♥

        1. Dr.KMnO4*

          Thanatos is great! I didn’t realize at first that if I killed more monsters than he did that I’d get a centaur heart, but once I learned that it really lit a fire under me. I’ve only beat the game 5 times in my 65 runs, but I am enjoying it quite a lot.

    6. Beans are green*

      Recommendations for board games, please! It’s just my partner and I, and one of us loves word games like Boggle and Scrabble and the other loves strategy games like Risk and Axis and Allies, and neither is very fond of the other type. Would prefer something that doesn’t take hours to play or set up. Any ideas?

      1. Reba*

        What kind of competition do you like? Some games I like that have a degree of strategy, but are basically indirect competition (you are trying to win but you don’t directly attack the other parties) are Azul, Wingspan, and Spirit of the Wild. A unique game I LOVE but requires than 2 players is the Visitor in Blackwood Grove.

        You might also enjoy deck building games. There are a lot of options with a similar mechanic — I think of them as shopping — with a stylistic range from intense fantasy-adventure (Dominion) to extremely cute and even tender (Machi Koro, Tea Dragon Society).

      2. Dr.KMnO4*

        Villainous, a game about being Disney villains.
        Sagrada, a game about using dice to build stained glass windows for the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona.
        Potion Explosion, making potions from colored marbles (ingredients) that you can then use to help you make more potions.
        Scythe, though that can take a bit longer than the others and is harder to describe succinctly.

      3. Nynaeve*

        Unstable Unicorns is pretty good – there is some strategy, but it’s more like card game strategy and not super tedious long-term planning strategy like Risk. I also agree with Reba about Azul and Wingspan. (Azul is less complex and the quicker of the two to learn. Both are aesthetically gorgeous.)

        You might also look into co-op board games. Here’s a recommendation list of co-op board games for 2 players: https://coopboardgames.com/rankings/cooperative-board-games-for-two-players.

        Good luck!

    7. DarthVelma*

      Still wrapped up in Elder Scrolls Online. We finished all the zone quests in Bankorai last night – one step closer to having that pot to wear on my head. :-) The partner is getting back into 7 Days to Die and I may start playing my secondary ESO character a bit while he’s running from zombies. Maybe start exploring some places Kraagh hasn’t gone yet.

      We also keep staring at the box for Aliens: Bug Hunt and making mouth noises about needing to read the rules and actually play it. Maybe tomorrow morning right after caffeine.

    8. Jackalope*

      We had to skip our D&D game this week since we had a couple of people who couldn’t make it, but some of us who still wanted to game ended up playing Yahtzee. It was perfect because they had a copy, and I didn’t have a copy but had plenty of dice, so we could still play on Zoom (you can get copies of the score sheet online). Hadn’t played that for awhile, and had fun with it even though it’s TOTALLY different than the game we were supposed to play. I’m still looking for games to play that involve various D&D dice (not just D20s or D6s) that we can play on other nights if someone has to back out.

      When I was looking online for potential dice games (I’m gonna find my D8 game, I just know it!), I also came across a game called Yahtwentee, which is basically a version of Yahtzee adapted for D20s. We didn’t play it this week, but I totally want to play it at some point down the road.

    9. Nicki Name*

      I’m learning to use FoundryVTT, which is the New Big Thing in online tabletop RPG gaming.

      I was bemoaning the other day that I’ve never had a group to play Eurogames with, and then I realized that since I’m probably WFH indefinitely now, when gatherings become possible again, I might be able to make it to one of the regular game nights at my local game store.

    10. Seeking Second Childhood*

      We’ve been doing an awful lot of weird Association games. I say something my daughter pops a word back my husband pops a word back and drowned in around in a circle. It’s the kind of thing that takes zero props, so we can do it while we are cleaning the kitchen. We need all the help we can get to clean the kitchen.

    11. Nynaeve*

      I just played some Portal 2 co-op yesterday with a friend. (I haven’t finished Portal yet, but he assured me there were no spoilers as the co-op version is a standalone story.) Lots of fun, despite my propensity to fall into acid. GLADOS remains delightfully snarky.

  6. Aximili*

    What are your thoughts on travel plans for 2021?

    My mother and I have been wanting to do a trip to Ireland for years now. Late last year, I finally hit a point in savings where I could treat her to some of the biggest costs of a trip (airfare and hotels, while we’d split cost of food and activities). Our plan was to start putting down money on things this year to travel during 2021. Obviously, with the year 2020 has been for travel abroad, we haven’t paid for anything. Our smaller trips for this year were cancelled and we were playing the waiting game with Ireland for 2021.

    In a recent talk, my mom suggested we push it back to 2022, just to be safe. I don’t mind it (honestly with the job issues I’ve had during the pandemic, it would be nice to have more time to rebuild my savings) but I was curious if anyone else was thinking 2021 would have travel as restricted as this year, whether by choice or by government guidelines.

    1. Val*

      I think that unless you are financially equipped to weather a quarantine, be stranded for a few days/weeks if airports shutdown, or reschedule at the last minute, 2021 is risky (especially changing continents).
      You sound like your budget can’t be stretched all that much, and like this isn’t just a trip you can easily do again if things go south
      So I’d postpone.
      . If moreover your idea of a fun holiday in ireland includes going to the pub or other crowded/indoor places, I’d definitely postpone.

    2. Searching*

      I really hope we’ll have a successful vaccine roll-out to help jump-start the travel industry again. Realistically, I don’t foresee sufficient vaccination happening until mid-2021 at the earliest. I just want to go see my dad again who lives in Europe (I’m in the US). I don’t think I’ll qualify for a vaccine until summer and I’m really hesitant to travel until then (although he’ll qualify before I do due to his age).

      For more tourist-oriented international travel, I will probably wait until 2022, but that’s in large part because my funds will go towards visiting dad this upcoming year.

    3. allathian*

      My husband and I have discussed this, and we both agree that we won’t take long trips away from home until we’ve been vaccinated and all travel restrictions have been lifted. Next summer we’ll probably take a domestic road trip, if the recommendation to avoid non-essential domestic travel is lifted.

    4. Lemonwhirl*

      Hi – I live in Ireland. Please wait until 2022. You’re just not going to have as good an experience in a pandemic, socially-distanced Ireland. My husband is self-employed in a business that is highly tourist dependent, and even he doesn’t want people arriving while the risks of transmission are still so high. (And even if you’ve personally been vaccinated, you can still transmit the virus. Vaccines aren’t magic.)

      I’m sorry to say that not all visitors to Ireland took the quarantine rules seriously, and as a result, there were instances of tourists from outside Ireland (and I hate to stereotype, but they were nearly always American) showing up places and refusing the confirm they’d quarantined or honestly saying they hadn’t. Their reservations were canceled or they’d be asked to leave. It generated a lot of ill will and distrust of some tourists.

      Save more and really splash out in 2022 or 2023 – stay at a castle. Stay at a lighthouse. Eat at Michelin starred restaurants. Have experiences that would otherwise be a bit too spendy for your budget. You will be welcomed so enthusiastically when it’s safe to do so.

      1. Outside Earthling*

        I love this. Now I want to go to Ireland and stay in a lighthouse! Preferably the one in Marian Keyes’ latest book, which I also loved. In 2022.

      2. Aximili*

        Thank you so much for this residential knowledge of Ireland, it is much appreciated! Could I know ask if you could recommend any particular castle or lighthouse that lets tourists spend the night? In our discussions of our trip, we’d joked about staying in a castle but figured it would be out of our budget. Any that won’t break the bank? (We don’t have a specific location in Ireland we’ll be staying so we’re open to anywhere)

        1. Lemonwhirl*

          So, the lighthouse I know of is pretty spendy unfortunately – Clare Island Lighthouse. So I did some googling – https://www.greatlighthouses.com/lighthouses/st-johns-point-donegal/

          St Johns Point in Donegal looks like the cheapest of a fairly expensive lot. I am guessing those prices are per night and the the two night minimum stay might make it too spendy.

          There are way more castles in Ireland, so that is probably a more affordable dream – this site looks like it has a good selection – https://www.theirishroadtrip.com/castles-to-spend-a-night-in-ireland/ 190 for a night for two people might sound high, but depending on where you are, a hotel room for two people can average around 150-200. (There’s a reason resident-Irish people go to Spain and France for our holidays usually. Not this year or probably next year though!)

          But there are loads of budget friendly adventures to be had! Hook Lighthouse in County Wexford is nearly 850 years old and is an incredible place to visit – you can go right up to the top.

          One of my favorite places in Ireland is Inisheer, a tiny island off the coast of Galway. It’s quiet and peaceful and has an amazing graveyard and a shipwreck on the coast.

          I don’t know how mobile you are and how happy you are with heights, but Skellig Michael, off the coast of County Kerry, is incredible. It was used as a filming location for the last Star Wars movies.)

          What kind of things are you and your mom interested in? (Falconry? I know a couple of great places to go for falconry, which can be a little spendy but it is an amazing experience.) I am happy to play virtual travel agent!

    5. StellaBella*

      Check this site out first from the government or Eire: (add the periods and remove spaces)
      https: // www gov ie /en / publication / b4020-travelling-to-ireland-during-the-covid-19-pandemic

      Postponing to August 2021 if things are ok by then, or summer 2022 seems best.

      I am personally not planning any long haul flights until 2022 to be safe. Cooped up on a plane for a few hours with possibly asymptomatic people is above my risk level and comfort level.

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m waiting to make any decisions until there’s a vaccine. I just took a job that requires travel but the company won’t allow it until at least July, but I’m itching to go somewhere– and my frequent flyer miles are growing (airline credit card) so I want to go somewhere before they expire. Still, my desire to fly is way lower than my desire to stay safe, so we’ll probably save our miles and our money for a trip in 2022. We’ve been talking about Japan.

    7. Just a PM*

      I am tentatively planning a short trip for fall 2021. Nothing big – just a long weekend in NYC to see some shows. I had two Broadway trips planned for this year (May and Oct) that were cancelled. However, I’m not putting money down to start making reservations until a) we see what the virus is doing, b) Broadway reopens, and c) restrictions are lifted against my state in NY.

      I’d love to go back to London and planning/thinking about that trip has kept me sane through all this. It’ll probably be Spring 2022 before I go overseas again.

    8. Hotdog not dog*

      Our travel plans for 2021 are…to wait until 2022. *sigh* We’re trying to convince ourselves that since we’ll have an extra year to save up, we can spring for a better trip next year.

    9. WellRed*

      Definitely wouldn’t plan an international trip. Hoping to go to Key West next Christmas, but we’ll see how things stand.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, we’ve talked about Key West or similar next fall, but it depends a lot on how things look by then.

    10. Nicki Name*

      I wouldn’t want to try international travel until 2022. I’m hoping for a big trip within the US in late summer/early fall, but that’s contingent on being fully vaccinated and the vaccination rates in the places I’d be traveling to.

    11. Jackalope*

      I’m personally holding off to see what happens next year. I have an international trip that I’ve been wanting to take for a couple of years to introduce my new husband to some elderly family members overseas; on the one hand I in no way want to risk getting them sick, but on the other hand they aren’t getting any younger, and I want him to be able to meet them before their health goes any further south. (We had been supposed to go this fall, but obviously that fell through.) Vaccines are supposed to start rolling out soon in multiple countries, and while I know it will take a long time to get them widespread, I see it as a possibility that international travel might be an option by late summer/early fall of next year. Or perhaps not; I’m definitely not buying any plane tickets yet! But if we have the vaccine, and said family members have it too, and that has the hoped-for effect on the infection rates, then it could be doable. In our case it’s a bit different since I’m going to a country I’ve been to many times before for a visit, so if it’s not the perfect ideal time for tourism then I don’t care as much, assuming of course that we won’t be an actual danger to each other because of COVID. YMMV.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      Moneywise, I probably won’t be able to travel outside the U.S. until 2022 anyway. But if I somehow had the money, I probably would wait until then anyway just to make sure there aren’t any more ‘rona tsunamis coming.

      We are still going to be wearing masks well into 2021, and anywhere you go may have stricter requirements than where you are. I would definitely take that into consideration. And definitely make sure your health insurance will cover you if you get sick during a trip.

    13. Suzanne*

      Note that even if the vaccine roll out happens in 2021 the vaccine is not a cure. Remember also there will be people who will refuse to get the vaccine. I wouldn’t be surprised if there will still be restrictions in place until 2022. They won’t be as severe and the threat might not be as severe but we just don’t know! I would wait.

      1. The Unknown B*

        Will they really keep big segments of the economy closed down to protect people who refuse to be vaccinated? At that point they’ll only be putting themselves in danger, not the vaccinated people, right? Or am I misunderstanding how this will work…

        1. ThatGirl*

          I think it will depend more on how many new cases continue to emerge, how full hospitals are, etc. That will partly be a reflection of vaccination rate but also how careless or careful people are being.

        2. Grits McGee*

          I could see country A banning non-essential travel from country B if there’s a high level of COVID infections in country B. Those are restrictions I could really see lingering through 2021 and maybe 2022 as the vaccine gets distributed across the globe.

          1. Jackalope*

            I am wondering if there will be countries who will require out-of-country guests to provide documentation of a vaccination. That seems like it might be an easy way for them to figure out which guests are less likely to be a risk.

            1. allathian*

              Yeah, probably. This assuming that the vaccine actually prevents the vaccinated person from spreading the virus. The ones that are currently furthest in the pipeline seem to mainly prevent the vaccinated from becoming sick with COVID themselves, but they won’t prevent a symptom-free vaccinated carrier from spreading the virus.

      2. Chaordic One*

        I worry that the vaccine will not be available in sufficient quantity to allow everyone who wants to be vaccinated to actually receive it. At least not right away. I keep hearing reports that even if the vaccines are rolled out and given to first responders, then people in nursing homes, and then elderly people most at risk and so on down to the people least at risk, it might still take up to a year or so to get everyone (who wants to be) vaccinated. That means probably not until the end of 2021.

        People living in poorer countries who probably won’t be able to receive the vaccine for another year or two. I suspect that if they do shut down the economy, it won’t be because of the people who refuse to be vaccinated. It will be to protect the many people who want to be vaccinated, but who can’t be because of quantity and distribution problems.

        1. Parenthetically*

          What I’ve read indicates that everyone in the US who wants to be vaccinated should be able to be vaccinated by the end of June 2021. Once we have our shots (and we’ll be in line the moment we can) and have waited the month for full immunity? I feel absolutely no qualms about travel. We are moving to another country next year and I feel fine about it.

    14. Paris Geller*

      I would just plan for 2022. Even once travel restrictions are lifted and it’s safer to travel again, I feel like pushing your trip back to 2022 will also give destinations more time to get back into the swing of things. The only travel I have planned for 2021 is for a friend’s wedding, and that’s happening December 2021 (pushed back from . . . today, actually!)

    15. Hi there*

      We just bought tickets to see “The Shining” at Opera Colorado in late Feb of 2022, but I don’t know how I’ll feel about travel in a plane by then. I did suggest to the hubs we could take a train from the East Coast and just hang out in our sleeper car the whole time. Fun fact, we were originally going to see this opera on Friday the 13th! (Of last month)

    16. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Ex-pat in the UK here and we are planning right now to be in the US in May for various reasons, but mostly because by that point I won’t have seen my parents for almost two years and I will have been vaccinated by then, as I am sure they will be as well. We also need to be in the US (a different part) next September and we should probably make a trip to Sweden in late summer to see those family and friends we haven’t seen in two years.

      I accept that travel is likely to still not be “the same” and will require mask wearing throughout (pro at that now), lots of hand washing, etc. It is what it is, and I am happy to do what needs to be done to at least see family. We are saving big “fun” trips to more exotic tourist destinations for 2022, no matter how tempting some of the airfares to the Caribbean are right now!

    17. OtterB*

      I’m hoping we can do a road trip and/or our daughter who lives in Wisconsin (we’re in Maryland) can travel to us in 2021, but I wouldn’t start putting money down on an expensive or complex trip. We’d had reservations for a family trip to Yellowstone in July 2020, which were canceled of course. I recently got an email that 2020 cancelees had first shot at 2021 trip reservations, but I’m not ready to bet on summer 2021 yet.

    18. BuildMeUp*

      Since our holiday plans have been scrapped, I think my parents, sister, and I might take a small trip in late spring/early summer for some family time, depending on how things are going. We’re in the states and would plan something within the continental US. I think we’re still in a “wait and see” mode, though.

    19. HannahS*

      I would definitely not start planning international travel that you wouldn’t mind having canceled for a while. Next summer is…dicey, I think. I’m in Canada, and I can imagine that I’d be good with traveling within Canada and maybe driving-distance parts of the States by summer or fall 2021, but I’d only book travel for somewhere I’d be willing to cancel on short notice.

    20. Aurora Leigh*

      Like most people on this thread — hoping to be able to see family again in 2021 but holding off on any touristy travel for longer. Baby is due in April and we are hoping that things will have calmed down sufficiently that we can have visitors in the summer.

  7. Not Australian*

    Just a line to update anyone who remembers that two weeks ago we had to put my 90-year-old mother-in-law into a care home because she was no longer able to look after herself. The transition itself was a little rocky, and she didn’t understand at first why she ‘had to’ be there and why nobody was visiting her, but a few long phone calls with family members seem to have reassured her a bit – as does passing the Covid quarantine requirements and being able to mingle with the other residents. Apparently she began cheering up as soon as she was able to have a shower – which she could no longer manage on her own – and when she realised that someone would wash up her coffee cup and she didn’t have to, and the process was completed when she found out that one of the carers knew her youngest grandson.

    Unfortunately the rules for Christmas mean that only two family members can visit indoors, and MIL has three children, but as we live at a distance my OH is quite content to wait until the rules ease off again – although he’s also willing to drive down and wave to her through a window or talk across the garden or something. He’ll have to go and help his sisters empty out the flat, anyway, and we’ll also be passing through early in the New Year to touch base with my son and his kids. [An outdoor get-together in January is going to be fun.]

    So thanks everyone for your moral support. In the end it was only a little bit difficult, and not for long, and now everyone seems to be much happier – especially MIL!

    5. Mella*

      I’m surprised to hear that you can visit. I haven’t been allowed on even the grounds of my dad’s facility since March.

      1. That'll happen*

        The use of the term “carer” leads me to believe that Not Australian might be in New Zealand, where restrictions have been lifted somewhat.

    6. Observer*

      and the process was completed when she found out that one of the carers knew her youngest grandson

      LOL. But it makes a lot of sense.

      I’m glad it’s working out well for her.

  8. Might Be Spam*

    I’m not making any travel plans for at least the first 6 months and not going to prepay for anything either. My son is moving to New Orleans in January and I’m hoping to visit some time this summer. I’m looking forward to making lists of things that would be fun to do but being flexible is required. There’s no way to tell how things will play out with the vaccines and any possible mutations this far in advance. I’m very hopeful that this summer will be safe to travel but I’m not going to bet money on it.

    2. Uranus Wars*

      Nothing to add here except New Orleans is on my list of places to go when I first feel safe to travel and get out a bit. Bourbon Street isn’t my scene but the galleries on Royal, Jackson Square, WWII museum and the $3 trolley ride definitely are.

    3. Grits McGee*

      Native Louisianian- if you aren’t used to triple digit heat with 90% humidity, you might want to wait until fall (October at the earliest). Leisurely strolling is one of the best activities in the city, but it can be absolutely miserable in summer.

      1. Urkelgru*

        I second that as a native Louisianian. I read it and immediately thought of the stinky streets in the Quarter in the heat, and of course the humidity that leaves us sweaty but always youthful. ❤️

        1. Might Be Spam*

          Thanks for the weather information. I didn’t think about the humidity. I can handle dry heat, but I do not deal well with humidity. My son currently lives in Miami and I can’t be there past mid-May.

          How is September, weather-wise? Any fall activities that I shouldn’t miss?

          1. Grits McGee*

            September can still hit long stretches of 90 degree weather, but you might hits nicer weather later in the month. New Orleans as a city goes alllll out for Halloween, which is really fun, and there’s lots of more low-key events and activities outside of Voodoo Fest.

  9. Sparkly Librarian*

    At what temperature do you keep your central heat? And how cold is it where you live?

    I just had my home furnace replaced (apparently the HVAC had never worked since before we moved in 6 years back, and it wasn’t until this year that I figured we should get it cleaned and tuned up before attempting to turn it on and found out). I’ve gotten used to keeping warm without a heater (a space heater on the chilliest days, electric blankets or heated mattress pad, and putting on a darn sweater!) and it’s very mild where we are. It rarely gets below 40 degrees Fahrenheit on winter nights. I’m happy setting the thermostat to 60F and just letting it ride. Basically keeping it as a hedge against real discomfort but not using it very often. I’m seeing all these recommendations for 68 degrees, though… are people really doing that when it’s not, like, snowing outside?

    1. Val*

      Yeah, I’m definitely in the 68 degrees crowd. But I guess it depends on the size of your house (two bedroom well-insulated apartment here) and how much it costs to keep it heated. My parents keep their “big” house closer to 62, and turn on the heater/use the fireplace to have the room they’re using at 66-68 when they want a heat boost.

      1. Coenobita*

        Same, we have a small, well-insulated townhouse with electric heat/cooling and this year I’ve been keeping the thermostat around 68F since we turned the heat on. Normally – ie if there was nobody at home during the day – we’d keep it way lower, but I’m working from home due to covid and get so, so cold sitting at my desk. I’d probably be fine at 62-65F wearing a hat/scarf/blanket but I have a ton of video calls so I’ve been trying to stay warm enough to be reasonably presentable :)

    2. allathian*

      We keep our living areas at around 21.5 C / 71 F and our bedrooms at 19 C / 66 F. It helps that our house is built on a slope and our main entrance is on the first floor and our bedrooms are in the basement/ground floor (half of that storey, that is our sauna/shower room and home gym, is built underground, but there’s a door to our garden and our bedrooms have big windows). These temperatures are pretty cool in comparison with the houses of most of my friends. Our house is 8 years old, well-insulated and we have geothermal heating, so it saves on the utility bills.

      We have 4 seasons and during the winter, our temperatures drop below 0 C/32 F and temperatures below -18 C/0 F occur at least a few days every year. We don’t have central AC, though, because our temperatures in the summer rarely rise above 25 C/77 F for long periods of time. In fact, three days in a row at that temperature counts as a heatwave. We usually have one or two heatwaves every summer, unless it’s a particularly cold and rainy summer. The highest temperatures we’ve had here are around 33 C/90 F.

    3. Pennyworth*

      Try 60F and see how it works for you. You can always change the setting, but if you are used to living at a cooler temperature why go to the expense of a higher temperature unless you feel the need for it?

    4. Jane Smith*

      Unless it’s very cold, I keep ambient temp at about 17.5°C (63.5°F). On milder days I turn the heating off completely and let the temp fall until I feel like it needs to go on again. For a bit of extra heat I’ll put it up to 19.5°C (67°F) but rarely above that and only for an hour or so till I warm up. I don’t like to go too far either way, and so I keep the heat fairly steady. I run cold as a person though, so if you cope with it at 60F then why put the heating up and incur the extra costs when you don’t really need to?

    5. RowanUK*

      This is a really useful thread for me right now.

      I moved into my first place in January and a combination of me not understanding the heating system and worrying about how much heating will cost, has meant that I’ve kept the heat off.

      I’ve noticed that I actually get really cold at around 15c / 59f so – when I figure out how to work the thing, I think that will be my cue to turn the heat on. My sister says 20c/68f is a good place to start for keeping the place warm.

    6. Semi-Anon for Identifying Details*

      I don’t have central heat….

      In the summer, we run the A/C as lightly as possible to keep the edge off – I need it to sleep, but during the day we often get by with fans and minimal clothing. Summer temperatures are 36 C and very humid (97 F). When we do set the A/C it’s at 26 or 27 (~80 F). In the winter it rarely goes below 12 C (54 F), but indoor heating is unusual and it’s very damp. Usually, we wear fluffy clothing, and break out a space heater in the bedroom when needed.

      When I lived in colder climates, I usually set things to be comfortable wearing a sweater while stationary, and cooler at night, with lots of fluffy blankets.

      1. Clisby*

        I also keep AC at 78 degrees (I live in coastal SC, in the US). If it’s really humid, I’ll set it to 76 degrees, just so I don’t feel like I’m living in a sauna. In winter, 68 degrees F during the day, 60 at night (I like sleeping in a cold room).

    7. CoffeeforLife*

      We just had a technician out and I asked him the same question. He says he keeps his place at 72F (22.2C). I think our windows are poorly insulated and there’s always a drafty chill in the air if I put it in the 60s. We’re in a mid Atlantic state, so 4 seasons and it’s in the 40s right now

      1. Just a PM*

        Same here. Mid Atlantic state and I keep mine at 72 degrees. I wish I could put it at 75 since I run cold but anything more than 72 makes it too hot upstairs in the bedrooms. (I put the AC at 74 in the summer.)

        Heat comes on when it’s in the low 60s.

        1. CoffeeforLife*

          Thankfully we have 2 units so i can keep the upstairs cooler for sleeping. I wish I could keep it set lower but it’s just not comfortable. And yes, I wear wool socks, thermals and a sweater. I have a Comfy (like a giant sherpa blanket sewn into a hoodie) and live in it during the winter.

          1. Cary*

            You can cut down on the drafts with a stuffed draft blocker (easy) or a window winterizing kit from the hardware store (work, I don’t do this but my parents used to). It’s plastic film that you heat-seal to the window with a hair dryer. Do it in the fall, take it down in the spring, makes the place much more comfortable if the windows are drafty.

            Also, you might like to add thick (like sheepskin) or puffy (like down with a foam sole) slippers and a puffy vest. A Comfy sounds interesting, I’ll have to look that up!

    8. Buni*

      My own internal ‘chilly, better put the heat on’ alarm goes off at about 15C / 60F, then I’ll put the heating on at about 17.5 / 65. It rarely falls below -5C here and I’ve warm-loving neighbours below me, but I’ve only single-glazed windows and a badly-if-at-all insulated roof above, so it evens out.

      Mind you, I also grew up cash-poor in a succesion of large old draughty houses, and if you went complaining about the cold to my parents you’d better be already wearing 17 jumpers when you did…

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        That sounds like me. Older house, poor insulation (although re-roofed in this millennium). My dad rules his home climate with an iron will and when he made a grand gesture of turning on the heat at night “for the baby” when we stayed over last Christmas, I woke up perishing of heat and had to throw off the covers to get back to sleep. I don’t have the greatest temperature regulation internally (metabolic stuff), but as long as I don’t GET cold to start with, it seems like I can be pretty comfortable at lower temps.

    9. sswj*

      I’m in South Carolina and when it gets cold (finally) here I keep the place between 66 and 68, with 64 or so for sleeping. A lot depends on if it’s very sunny, or damp and windy. I’ll actually hit the heat sometimes just because the place feels damp even if the house temp is where it usually is. The humidity where were are can be worse than the actual air temperature!

      1. Uranus Wars*

        This is my experience (in a southern state that has seasons) 65 or lower at night, 67-68 during the day. I usually don’t even turn it on until around Thanksgiving. This year it was December 1 when I finally turned it on.

        But if it’s sunny, I turn it off all together during the day. If it’s damp and dreary, it might say it’s 66 inside but I need to cut the chill so I’ll turn it up to 69 just long enough to get the furnace to run once, get some hot air circulating and then turn it off again. I have electric heat.

        I grew up in Pennsylvania and had gas heat – I ran it for a lot longer during the year but because of the gas I kept it at 60 at night at 67 during the day and that was enough to be comfy in sweats and slippers.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      For me, oil based heat is cheaper than using more electricity for space heaters and such. So I go with the oil.
      I have a programable thermostat which saves me a lot of guesswork.
      I turn the heat on usually about the end of September. (Temps are dipping into the low 40s and 30s by then.) I use a night time setting of 65. For mornings and evenings (dinner time) I have a setting of 70.
      When we get down to days of zero degree weather I have to override the settings because it is cold in here.

      If you are comfy then no worries.
      For me being too cold is a problem. I start feeling logy/draggy and I can start feeling down in the dumps about things. Once I turn the heat up, I start feeling better.
      The one thing I do have to watch here is problems with moisture. I live in a wet area. If I keep the house too cool, I can end up with dampness and molds in corners, just because there is so much moisture in the air. Dehumidifiers are spendy to run all the time, so turning up the heat just makes sense.

      As long as you are happy and comfy and the house seems to be doing okay, then I don’t see a need to change what you are doing.

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Good point about the house taking it well — I haven’t noticed any moisture issues over the last few years, but our living space is a story above ground so I think that helps.

    11. Lora*

      50-60F, and where I live winter goes down to about 10-20 F at night, sometimes below zero (-20C). No, am not kidding, and I don’t get hypothermia, it’s the equivalent of a warm spring day. The bathroom has a space heater and that’s the only place I’m not wearing Heattech long underwear and wool socks/sweater.

      I love sleeping with the cold on my face under heavy quilts and a down comforter. If you wear a base layer of wool or Heattech leggings and undershirts under a good quality real wool or cashmere sweater, and a hat, you will be plenty warm. Heat can be insanely expensive where I live – my winter heating bill is regularly $2500 even at this temperature, even with the house well insulated with R40 in the attic. Before I insulated the attic, windows and a wall, and shut off the crappy oil furnace in favor of electric heat, the winter heat cost $7500-11,000.

      Flannel sheets, layers with long underwear and a wool layer. If you’re still chilly after that, polar fleece or light down jacket, but a merino wool sweater over heattech shirt does wonders.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Jiminy Christmas. You mean $2500 for the whole winter, not per month, I hope? You’re right though, that’s still wacky expensive — we keep the thermostat at 70 for a 4500 sqft house in the Midwest year round, with both electric heat and AC, and our full 12-month power expenditure doesn’t hit $2500.

        2. Lora*

          For the whole winter *now*, turning the heat on in November and turning it off about mid-April. When I first bought the house, it was well over $2000/month – the oil heater was not very efficient (despite being about 12 years old in 2006), frequently broke down, and oil at the time was well over $4/gallon. The original house had a single batt of fiberglass insulation casually tossed into a crawlspace, original mid-1800s windows and doors that had been made by the previous owner from rough cut wood as a hobby project (as opposed to fitted wood doors with weatherstripped jambs – which apparently the owner before him had installed, and he got rid of them). That’s for a 2500 square foot house – the oil company was refilling a 300 gallon tank about every 2-2.5 weeks. And it was still pretty drafty.

          I spent a fortune installing historically-acceptable double glazed windows, which had to be hand-made, insulating the attic, replacing the clapboards to insulate walls and putting reproduction-historically-accurate doors (with proper jambs and weatherstripping) on the house, and getting electric heat to replace the oil furnace. I STILL cannot get the original oil furnace people to come out and collect their disconnected paperweight from my basement, there’s some EPA thing they have to do to remove it and they don’t wanna.

          That’s before we talk about the lead and asbestos remediation that had to be done before moving in. Antique houses LOOK really cool, I am the first to say that oak paneling made of old growth forest and huge exposed timbers are lovely, but they take a ton of work to be livable.

          1. Lora*

            Also – the heating bills *have* come down some in the last year or so and I’m hopeful that it will come further down this year. For a while my mother was spending most days at my house, and she would crank the heat up to mid-70s while she was here, still complaining all the time that it was cold (she did the same in her apartment, which was practically a blast furnace). Then I had a housemate who also turned the heat up and ran every electronic device you can think of 24/7, who I kicked out in early January. So, ideally I’d like to see the heating bill well under $700/month…

          2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            Oh gosh, I bet it is gorgeous though, and bless you for trying to keep the original look of the thing despite the expense!!

          3. Uranus Wars*

            You have just validated my choice to not buy an old mansion on the cheap about 10 years ago.

            It was BEAUTIFUL and structurally the previous owners ensured it was sound. Long story, but the couple selling it was the wife’s sister and BIL who were in their 70s and couldn’t keep up with it and their own home and didn’t want to become landlords that late in life.

            It had oil heat and the main reason I passed was because even keeping it at 60 was $1,000 per month in winter…the “selling point” was that with 9 working fire places you didn’t have to use the heat as much.Well, that might be true but I also don’t want to come home from work and maintain 9 fire places or live in 2 rooms!

            1. Lora*

              YES I tell my friends who talk about buying an old house – you do not actually want an antique house. You want a *reproduction*. The heat isn’t even the worst part, the crazymaking part to me is that when something breaks, a regular contractor won’t touch it because they don’t know how to do timber framing or plastering with actual plaster – they need to hire a specialist. Then they have to get a permit from town. And a specialized architect. And, and, and. By the time you find someone willing to take on any given repair, no matter how urgent it is, several months have passed and it costs 10X your original budget based on modern-house estimates. I finally replaced my doors because they had cracks showing daylight through them – huge, enormous cracks, I put space blankets over every door but one. It took 8 months to get a contractor to install doors, which had to be custom fabricated and had 4-month lead times, despite a really horrible winter that year. If you saw these doors, they are not substantially different from any other door you see at Home Depot, but they are made of wood and made to fit sort of a weird measurement because the timber frame stops at a slightly lower height than modern standards. They cost $6000 installed. For a regular boring wood door that doesn’t even look like much – on a modern house, would be maybe $1000 tops. Dumb stuff like that, it will drive you completely bonkers.

            2. Woman of a Certain Age*

              When my parents were children, they both lived through the Great Depression and, at different times, in houses that lacked electricity and indoor plumbing, as well as central heating. They grew up with kerosene and wood for heat. (This was in the 1930s and 1940s). I grew up thinking that fireplaces were attractive and desirable and cozy, I guess from watching TV and movies.

              Strangely enough, no one in my immediate family actually has a house with a working fireplace. In the 1990s, my then 70-something grandmother built her dream home and it lacked one. When I asked her why, she said she was so tired of cold drafty fireplaces and wood-burning stoves, and of cleaning ashes out of them that she never wanted to see one again and I think that is how most of my relatives of a certain age feel to this day.

          4. Not So NewReader*

            You have done an awesome job with your heat bill. I am so impressed.

            I live in an old school house. We took out the tar paper and put in actual insulation. I think the ceiling has R-30 something. When oil was at $4 per gal, I paid a little over $4400 for that year. With the insulation and the lower oil price, I am down to $1800 per year. (I also have new energy windows and new doors all around.) Should it go to $4 a gal again, I anticipate a bill in the range of $2400. Not great but no where near what others are wrestling with.

        3. Quiet Liberal*

          Wow, that is spendy, even for the whole year! We live in a similar climate. (It’s 10F right now) We heat/cool a 2200 sq ft, 70-year-old house and our natural gas/electric bill is $70/month for everything. We keep our thermostat at 70F during the day and 55F at night in winter. Like Lora, we love to sleep in a cold room with lots of covers.

        1. Cary*

          The typical advice for avoiding pipes freezing is to keep the thermostat at 55 (I’ve occasionally seen 60 recommended for places that routinely get below -10F). It does also depend on where the pipes are and if they’re insulated. Ours mostly aren’t (old pipes, want to find leaks), but they are insulated within 6 feet of outside walls in the basement (and the main waste pipe that runs down the outside wall is insulated), and that seems to work fine with the thermostat set to 55F at night.

        2. Lora*

          Heat tracing!

          You can buy it at Home Depot, they are rubber-encased heat cables that plug in. I think the brand is Frost King. And then wrap piping insulation around that. Due to the plumbing being a retrofit, a lot of the piping is actually sort of built into a cabinet area in the kitchen, and there’s only two stretches that go through crawl spaces – both of which have heating cables and a LOT of insulation now.

        1. Winter*

          As I was saying, me, too. House is around 55-58 days, low 50s at night. That’s just my temp. Northeast, cold winters, wood heat mainly, but like Lora, a heater in the bathroom ‘cause you gotta drop trou. Have a central system for backup or to keep a minimum heat if I have to be away. I had to take shorts when visiting Mom, because she set her thermostat at “stifling,” somewhere in the low 80s.

          For those with drafts/poorly sealed homes, shrink wrapping your windows works wonders!

      4. Cary*

        Haha no. No, we’re two people who tend to be cold, and we do keep it at 55 at night and 60 during the day, and

        (a) We were also always COLD outside on a “warm spring day,” I gotta say 60F is not “warm” (except relatively) and never was; and

        (b) We are not “plenty warm” in just a base layer, a cashmere sweater and a hat, nowhere near. Cashmere’s warm for its weight but it’s also very light, so “warm for its weight” still isn’t warm enough for us for this purpose.

        It *is* completely doable even for us, even though we both have Raynaud’s, but please do realize it’s much harder for some people than it seems to be for you!

        Sheepskin slippers over wool (or acrylic for the allergic person) socks; lined pants (because we can’t find baselayer bottoms that both fit and breathe); baselayer top plus lined flannel shirt, plus 2-3 sweaters or a sweater and down vest, and add a sweatshirt or robe as needed; hat. The first year we also needed fingerless gloves at times.

        Extra thick flannel PJs (Vermont Country Store FTW, nothing else is as warm and durable as their store brand or the Lanz they sell, $$$ but worth it), flannel sheets and a polyfill comforter AND a down comforter at night.

        Oh and yeah, space heater in the bathroom.

        (Yeah we also have an old house. :D)

        Now *speed-walking* somewhere, that’s different. Even in the 40s, if I’m hurrying to or from the store or something, I’m comfy in my lined pants, long underwear top, LL Bean merino sweatshirt (RIP, wish they’d bring it back, I was about to buy another when they discontinued it), and Gore-Tex jacket. And hat and gloves which I take on and off to adjust temperature as I walk. But that’s semi-vigorous physical activity. Sitting and working from home or watching TV…is not.

        1. Lora*

          That is true – I am very physically active and have a lot more muscle mass than most. Rarely sit down for more than a couple of hours at a time, unless I’m actually sleeping, and normally when I sit down it’s with a hot cup of caffeine. That makes a difference.

          When I am doing normal chores around the house, even at 60F, I am sweating. In summer I spend a lot of time in the pool or not moving in front of a fan, with a pitcher of cold mint tea at the ready. Hot flashes only got somewhat better and sort of evened out, for me, they never really went 100% away yet, and it’s been 7 years now…

        2. Lora*

          Oh, also, if you liked the LL Bean merino – definitely check out Uniqlo! Their Heattech apparel was originally designed for use in Hokkaido where it gets as cold as New England, but houses are much less insulated and weather-proofed. They also do some nice basic merino sweaters that are very warm. I have absolutely no affiliation with them other than a drawerful of leggings and undershirts.

          Also, if you have some money to spend on the good stuff, alpaca fiber anything is wonderfully warm and soft. My sock drawer is nearly all alpaca and llama socks these days.

          And now I go out in the nor’easter to shovel…

          1. Cary*

            Thanks! Does the whole “changes moisture into heat” thing really work? I really liked the LL Bean Heavyweight polyester baselayer until it started causing problems from not being breathable enough.

            1. Lora*

              Welllllll eh. It keeps you warmer than wool long underwear, especially if for example you go out to shovel the driveway or have a hot flash vision of hell, and start sweating like mad and your leggings and undershirt get sweaty – when you settle back down you will not be suddenly smacked with chills. You will still be warm and gradually cool off. Whether this is due to “turning moisture into heat” or merely being extraordinarily good at wicking sweat off you, I don’t know. I can say that even when you shoveled the entire damn driveway and sweated through your deodorant, when you go back indoors to guzzle drinks, you are still warm, whereas with wool long underwear or that waffle weave cotton stuff – not so much, I would feel suddenly slapped with cold. It really is the best I have found for long underwear though, and I swear I have tried everything on the market. Silk did nothing and I might as well have been naked. Wool was itchy and had the wave of ice thing. Waffle weave stuff was bulky, annoying and didn’t fit well at all, I felt like I had to live in long hippie skirts and wearing it to work was out of the question. The technical fiber stuff you can get from outdoor sporting goods places had the wrapped in plastic (OMG the lady parts were VERY unhappy with that) issue you spoke to. But the Heattech stuff breathes, can be worn under regular pants and also comes in plain neutral tights that are appropriate under-dress work wear, is very washable, soft and comfortable, and really, really helps.

    12. Mimosa Jones*

      Here in northern New England, I try to keep the heat off into October, but I don’t always make it. We have zones and programmable thermostats (worth every penny) and have the downstairs living areas set for 67 daytime and 62 nighttime. The upstairs is set to 62 all the time with a short boost in the morning to encourage us out of bed. My office is on this floor and I use a space heater to keep that warm. I can’t function if the house is colder than 64. I just stay huddled under blankets no matter how many layers I’m wearing.

    13. Not Alison*

      We keep our thermostat at 62F at night and 64F during the day (except if the house gets really chilly we will boost it to 66F for a while). When my spouse used to say it was too cold, my response was “well, put on proper winter clothing” (i.e. long-sleeved shirt or sweatshirt, long pants and socks). And that has worked.

      1. Kt*

        We also have 64 for “around during daytime” and down to 58 at night. I find that if I wash my hair in the evening and it’s 57 and I don’t wear a hat, I’m miserable. So I put a strict 58-degree minimum. I find I am sensitive to temp to the degree at a certain point, but above that it’s fine.

        I do love sweaters though :)

    14. ThatGirl*

      We are near Chicago. No real snow yet but it’s been chilly at points. We keep our heat at 68 during the day and 62 at night. Our house is about 25 years old so some of the window insulation is failing, but we got a new front door and that’s really helped. We have gas heat and it’s not too expensive.

    15. Jules the 3rd*

      We’re 72ish in winter, 76ish in summer. US South, not going to get above 50 F this weekend. Lows in the 30s are common, in the 20s happen, in the 10s are rare.

      But our dog is a whippet, and she gets uncomfortable if the house goes below 72. We just had the HVAC replaced, the house hovered in the low 60s, and she only came out of the blankets to walk in her coat. She doesn’t like to wear the coat all the time.

      My parents keep their house in the mid-60s with a fire in the fireplace, and I find that uncomfortably cold in the guest bedroom. The fireplace draws in air from the outside, so the back rooms end up in the 50s.

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Awww, chilly whippet!

        The cats have their own heated beds here (and a lap of whoever’s working from home) so I just worry about our toddler getting too cold. (That’s why we turned on the heater this year — last winter she was tiny and immobile and we used a space heater in her room, but now she’s on the go and I worry about her investigating hot appliances right at her level.) Her hands are usually cold to the touch, even when it’s not winter, but her feet and the back of her neck stay warm with reasonable clothing. Usually long cotton or fleece jammies and a fleece sleepsack over the top at night. This morning the thermometer read 56 inside and I was comfortable standing in front of it in a t-shirt, pajama pants, and wool socks (although when stationary on the couch I do want a quilt to snuggle under); she’s wearing a thick cotton jumper and seems perfectly happy.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          I think there’s a lot of variability based on ‘what you are used to’ and ‘how you just are’. If the baby seems happy, she probably is.
          – I can tolerate lower temps better in January than in November.
          – My husband can tolerate lower temps better than I can all year round. He just got a heat camera attachment for his phone, and we have established that he’s noticeably warmer than I am, especially hands and feet.

          But in the US South, my ability to handle warmer temps better is the more useful adaption.

          1. Sparkly Librarian*

            I wish I could adapt to warmer temps! We had a September heat wave the last couple years, and even with all fans going it was pretty miserable. And there’s only so many layers of clothing you can take OFF. Southerners are acclimated to this (or know all the tips and tricks), but around here we’re pretty useless in the heat. Plus there’s no AC — my workplace shut down several times because it got over the proscribed 87 degrees inside. Lots of baby baths and dinner in the bathtub!

    16. Puffle*

      This is a strangely fascinating thread to read- and interesting to get a benchmark of what other people do.

      I only really turn my central heating on from about Nov to Feb, and only during the early morning/ evening. I turn it off when I go to bed. It’s usually on 18/19C (66/67F). But I live in fairly mild climate, and have neighbours on either side. Average temperature in winter here is about 3C (37.4F), and it can occasionally drop down to around to the -5C (23F) mark.

    17. PostalMixup*

      Tl;dr – it’ll probably depend a lot on your specific house and who lives there. You might want to just pick a temperature to start with, see how it goes, and adjust from there.
      Long answer:
      It really depends on a lot of factors. When I lived in Tucson, our house didn’t have heat (well, it did. It was just the only thing that ran on gas, which we had never turned on). The first winter there were 3 of us living in the house, and we honestly never realized the heat didn’t work. The second winter there were only two of us, and we didn’t generate enough body/electronics heat to keep the house comfortable. Our house was about 58F and I was miserable, sleeping in a sweatshirt under SO many blankets.
      Now I live in the southern part of the Midwest. It’s not Arctic, but it gets plenty cold in the winter (we’ve got lows on the 20s right now). Our thermostat is in the center of the house, which means that most rooms are colder than the thermostat thinks the house is. If we set the heat to 68F, the front room is 64 – unless it’s morning, and sunny, and the blinds are open, in which case it’s actually 68. So we set the thermostat to 68 until 3:00pm, when it bumps up to 70.

      1. Sparkly Librarian*

        Ah, yes, good point about the thermostat location! Ours is also central to the house layout. Our front room gets a lot of midday/afternoon sun, so from about 2PM onward it is VERY warm (and I usually have the front door open with the screen on), but the bedroom at the back of the house is FRIGID in the mornings. Have been noticing the difference more now that we can’t go anywhere and have been working from home all day.

    18. Mimmy*

      We have both central heat and cooling. We keep the heat at 71-72F during the day and 65F at night during the colder months and about 72-74F during the summer. We have oil heating.

    19. CatCat*

      Sounds like I’m in a similar climate to you. Ours is set to 62 for most of the time, but programmed to go to 68 for a couple hours early in the morning when it’s coldest. Otherwise, yeah, put on a sweater. We put hot water bottles in our bed in the evening before we go to bed. We use a space heater in our living room where we spend most of our at-home time because we don’t need to heat the whole place when we’re in one room. I WFH in the living room and use the space heater or hot water bottle during the day if needed. Our energy bills go way down in the winter.

    20. Jackalope*

      I spent a number of years living in apartment buildings where the temperature was set by the building manager, who tended to keep it fairly warm. In one building you had absolutely no choice about it; the heat would turn on sometime in mid-October and then off in the spring. In the other, they would turn the boiler on in mid-October, but you could either have the heat on (and very warm!) or off, because the radiators had just one setting. (I normally turned the radiator on in one room, and the apartment was small enough that that worked for the whole place.) So I got used to having things be kind of warm and not having to worry about the cost (both places the heat bill was bundled into the rent).

      Currently the region where I’m living it’s usually in the mid to upper 40s Fahrenheit during the day and low to mid 30s at night. We have the heat set at 68 degrees during the day, but there’s only 1 thermostat in the house, my housemate is working in one of the colder rooms, and I’m in the very hottest room in the whole place. So I’m often at 75 or so up here, thinking about wearing shorts, and then go down to visit her on my breaks and she’s bundled up in multiple layers and still cold. We’re leaving it at 68 since that’s survivable for both of us if we each wear appropriate layers, but it is kind of funny sometimes. (I’ll go downstairs and start shivering, or she’ll come up to my room and say, “Wow, it’s SO warm in here!”) We’re both full-time WFH at the moment so it’s got to be something we can both manage.

      1. pancakes*

        That’s my situation – my building dates to the early 1900s and we only keep 2 out of the 5 radiators on. We’re still often broiling and have windows open at least a bit even on the coldest days.

        1. Cary*

          As you probably know, heating systems in buildings that age were designed for people to keep the windows open all winter because it was thought to be healthy. (And in the 1918 flu, it *was*!)

          1. Sparkly Librarian*

            I didn’t know that! In my house (y’know, without running the heater) we keep track of the seasons by when we can keep the windows open. Usually we button them up some October night and look forward to the late-February/March date when it’s warm enough to crank them open again. Occasional exceptions made throughout the year for surprise rainstorm or smoky oven incident.

          2. pancakes*

            I have read that! It does feel healthy to me, but it’s so inefficient. I have a good friend who’s really into passive house tech and he can talk about energy efficiency for hours on end.

        2. Clisby*

          Same with my college dormitory. It had radiator heat, which apparently could be set to OFF or BLAST FURNACE. We had the windows wide open for most of the winter (this is in South Carolina).

    21. fhqwhgads*

      Mine it set to 64, although I have it turned off at the moment and it’s 62 in here right now. My overnight lows sound similar to yours. Occasionally it’ll go down to high 30s, but that rarely lasts more than an hour. I just wear a sweater during the day. No space heaters or anything.

    22. Cary*

      60F here (55 at night), because we have oil heat and that shit is expensive. :D IOW we even have it at 60F when it *is* snowing outside. We run cold, so for us it takes layering and so on. Ordinary shoes aren’t warm enough (even with warm socks) so we wear sheepskin slippers. We also wear lined pants, lined shirts (or, LL Bean chamois shirts are extra warm for their bulk) and either 2-3 sweaters or else a sweater and a down vest. And a hat and/or fleece robe over top if still cold. But oil heat is so expensive that these layers paid for themselves in one heating season. At the same time, you can see why someone else who runs as cold as we do might set their heat warmer. But if you’re comfortable at 60, there’s no reason not to leave it there!

    23. Courageous cat*

      It rarely gets below 30 degrees on winter nights, usually highs in the 40s-50s during the depths of winter here (which is fairly short)

      I keep it on 68-70 when I’m home and up, bump down to 65 during the day. I find inside temperatures to be very different than outside temperatures – 65, for instance, is perfectly agreeable outside, but I start to get soooo cold inside, and no amount of wool socks can help. 60 would kill me.

      1. Tortally HareBrained*

        Agreed on the 60s feeling differently indoors and outdoors. We also have ours set between 67-69 for hours we are home (and also during the day since we have small mammals) and a hair lower at night for sleeping.

    24. Dan*

      Temps are weird. For quite awhile, I was ride-or-die at 68 year-round. I grew up in the Upper Midwest, so I know what cold temps are. I live in the mid atlantic now, and it doesn’t get that cold this far south. It does, however, get humid as all get out in the summer. For that reason, I’m reaching for the AC quicker than many.

      That said… I’ve been losing body fat, and consequently, I need warmer temps to be comfortable. It used to be that 75 would make be start to sweat just sitting around. Now? 74-75 is my comfortable temp while WFH all day. I set it to 70 to sleep. Whereas in years past I’m sure 62 at night would be fine, something that cold would have me freezing my arse off.

    25. RagingADHD*

      I prefer it around 68 by day and 62 at night, but my family (including spouse) would prefer to crank it up to 75 and sit around in tank tops. We have many discussions.

      The youngest just got guinea pigs for her birthday, and from what I’m reading 62 is probably too chilly for them, so I’ll probably reprogram the night setting to 65.

      1. Workerbee*

        We tailor our heat for our guinea pigs, as well. If they’re puffed up, it’s too cold. We also have fleece beds and fleece blankets for them (which they use).

    26. CoffeeforLife*

      This thread has taught me that I *cannot* move to a colder clime nor do I want oil heating.

    27. Dancing Otter*

      Well, it isn’t snowing yet… but we regularly get winter temperatures in negative numbers Fahrenheit.
      My apartment is NOT well insulated. In fact, I can see the blinds swaying in the draft as I write this. In order to keep the temperature at 60F, I need to set the thermostat closer to 80. With sun, it may get to 65 during the day, but there were nights last winter that I wore a wool hat and socks to bed with three quilts.
      When I had my own house, I had a programmable thermostat. I set it to 62 overnight and while we were out during the day, but 68 mornings and evenings when people would be taking showers, changing clothes, trying to warm up after being outside, etc. Sometimes, the sweaters and shawls have to come off, you know?

      1. RagingADHD*

        If you have drafty windows, I have had a lot of success with that plastic film that you can heat-shrink with a hair dryer.

        You put it on the room side of the windowframe to create an air gap. Essentially creates the effect of a double-paned window, as well as stopping air leaks around the frame.

        It has made our place so much more comfy in winter, and saves $$$$$!

    28. PT*

      68 in the winter, 75 in the summer (down to 73 at night.) There’s usually a few degrees spread based on how much sun/shade a room gets and how far it is from the HVAC unit.

    29. Rebecca Stewart*

      We keep ours around 65, which means for me if I’m just sitting I want my sweater on and I don’t go barefoot anyway (I have a lift in one shoe). Upstairs I don’t need the sweater. Some nights I open a window before bed. It’ll be interesting to see how the new house handles proper cold.

    30. Mella*

      I’m in NEUS, and it depends on the type of heat. I grew up in an old farmhouse with radiators, and they would pour out heat long after the thermostat would tell them to stop. Now I live in a 90s Colonial with forced air, and we keep it cranked to the mid-70s because this type of heat doesn’t radiate into the floor and furniture, so it feels cold again as soon as it kicks off.

    31. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I keep it set to 17-18 degrees C (62-64 F) generally, I tried to position the thermostat in a fairly central place which means some parts of the house end up colder than that (I don’t think the insulation is very good…).

      I remember living in a rented place where there was no real heating to speak of — there were those “storage heaters” which heat up a brick of concrete overnight when electricity is cheaper and then gradually release it during the day, but we couldn’t use them as all the knobs had been removed and then when I worked around that, found that they had electrical issues resulting in dangerous electrics. The rental agency people were less than helpful, which is to say, as much use as a chocolate teapot. We spent most of that time with a temperature in the house of about 8-9 degrees C – 46-48 F….

      We only lived there 18 months including 1.5 winters (the first winter, and the one we moved during, just around Christmas when no one is available, which makes it extra fun) as the landlord apparently wasn’t paying his mortgage (what exactly was he doing with the rent we paid him every month, then? The answer is blowing in the wind…) so the bank started foreclosure proceedings against him, and I don’t think he had even made the bank aware he was renting the place out!

    32. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I guess I live in one of those western/mid-western states where the weather is usually between 20 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit (-6.67 to 4.5 C) in the winter (with occasional dips down to 20 F below zero (-29 C or so) and then between 70 and 85 degrees (21 to 29 C) in the summer (with occasional highs up to 105 or (40 C) so). Being old and probably having Renaud’s disease, I leave my thermostat set at 75 F (24 C) in the winter and 80 F (27 C) in the summer. I set the thermostat lower in the winter (60 F/15C) and higher in the summer (95 F/35C) wwhen I’m not home, like when I was at work or on vacation.

      I live in a fairly newish (built in 1995), but drafty, apartment of about 1,000 square feet and have natural gas powered forced-air heat. The combined gas and electric bills have never been more than $75.00 a month. Since working from home, I find that when I’m at my desk in the mornings my feet will still be cold so I’ve resorted to having a small electric space heater under my desk to keep them warm.

      Lately, I’ve been reading about a kind of plug-in electric floor mat to keep feet warm and I’m thinking I’ll get one to replace the space heater. Supposedly it is similar to those kind of new electric radiant heat elements that they are installing in new luxury housing under the floorboards. One of my co-workers built a new house and had those built in and she says that it is the epitome of luxury.

    33. ....*

      I pretty much leave mine at 70 all winter. I live where it gets cold and snowy for months at a time but only live in a 1 bed room apt. My bill usually only goes up 20-30 bucks per month in the winter. Id be extremely cold and unhappy at only 60 degrees

  10. Val*

    Maternity leave question.

    I gave birth on Thanksgiving (yay), baby boy is gorgeous, I’m fine and not exceedingly exhausted (considering), and husband is home (silver lining of covid layoffs). He’s involved and thrilled. It’s our first kid.

    I will be on maternity leave until March (not the US) and am only keeping a distant eye on what’s going on at work (i have a senior role in a small company). Baby already has a daycare spot for March+ (small place, reasonably covid compatible).

    For those of you who had maternity (or paternity) leave, what have you enjoyed doing? Either with baby, or for yourself / as a couple?
    Anything you regret doing/not doing?
    Obviously, visits will be few and the weather is cold, so we’ll be mostly indoors.

    For now, I’ve been making a photo album and we (husband mainly^^) has been fixing up the always-postponed small stuff in the house + doing some decorating.
    We’d like to start baking now that I am allowed to eat most of everything again but baby (breastfed) sleeps in irregular bursts so it’s a bit tricky.

    1. Lemonwhirl*

      Don’t rule out outside activities! I have a November baby (who is now inexplicably 10 years old), and as long as it was dry, I took him for a walk outside nearly every day. He was well bundled and the fresh air and change of scenery was good for both of us.

    2. allathian*

      Congrats on your new baby!

      I’m not in the US either, and I had 3 months of maternity leave at full pay (paid by my employer) and then about 20 more months of parental leave at 60 percent pay (paid by our social services), so my son was a bit over two years old when he went to daycare. My husband works in a very conservative field where men almost never take paternity leave, he took two weeks when our son was a newborn. When I went on leave, it was like being furloughed, I had to hand in my work ID, work phone, etc. Even had I wanted to, there was no way for me to keep up with what was going on at work. I’ve never had a boss go on maternity leave, my current boss is in her mid-30s and she has a couple of kids, but she was an individual contributor when she took maternity leave and she did the same thing as I did. I did keep in touch with my boss about return dates etc. by email using my private email address. Some parents on maternity or paternity leave have brought their kids to the office for a visit, but I never did.

      I was very lucky in that my MIL, who had retired early for health reasons a few years earlier but was well enough to care for our son, enjoyed spending time with him. We have a great relationship and I haven’t had any significant childcare issues with her.

      When my son was a few weeks old, I really didn’t do much. Now, more than 11 years later, I actually don’t remember much what I did, it’s all lost in a blur. A friend of mine had a baby about two months before I did, so when they were small, we took a lot of walks with our babies either awake or napping in their carriages. Your baby’s sleep will hopefully stabilize during the next few months and then it’ll be a lot easier to start baking.

      You could start using a baby carrier or sling where the baby faces inwards. I never did, but I’ve seen some moms even breastfeed their babies when they carry them that way. You could certainly do a lot of baking-related stuff with the baby in the carrier, although I’d avoid using a noisy electric mixer and putting stuff in and taking it out of the oven, for obvious reasons.

    3. Amy*

      Congratulations on your new baby! I’m due any day now with my second, but here’s what I remember from my first (pre-COVID, obviously).

      Even though young babies are a lot of work, they’re pretty easy in some ways. There’s a limited repertoire of things they need (eat, nap, diaper change) and they will sleep pretty much anywhere. I remember feeling like I needed to be doing something enriching with my baby all the time, but newborns honestly don’t care much about “activities.” All that to say, once baby’s basic needs are met, focus on what you and your husband need to stay sane and connected as caregivers! It’s a marathon!

      One of the absolute best things I did as a new mom was joining a local support group for parents of newborns. Obviously in COVID times it won’t be quite the same, but even via Zoom it’s so helpful to have a space to chat with other moms dealing with the same stuff. I’m still in touch with some of them years later.

      Getting out of the house for a walk every day is huge. Try to make it a goal, even when it feels like a PITA. Weeks on end of being stuck indoors with a newborn is crazy-making, COVID or no.

      If it’s safe to do so in your area, take advantage of the newborn period to do some road trips (maybe just for the day). Once your baby hits the ~4 month mark you will be more homebound since the baby will not take naps “on the go” as easily, whereas newborns are generally just as happy to sleep in a carrier or car seat as in their cribs. Honestly, perhaps more so.

      Take lots of pictures and videos! You might consider signing up for a service to store and share memories with relatives and friends, especially since COVID may have taken visits off the table. We really like TinyBeans, which sends a daily digest of photos and videos to people you designate. We’ve kept up with it for years and it’s a lot of fun to look back on since everything is organized stored in the cloud.

    4. Anona*

      Honestly I was too tired to do much more than exist for the first couple months. Sometimes I’d watch shows or movies but I have recollection of trying to watch a documentary and having to restart it a bunch of times before finally giving up.
      Once she was a few months old I would take walks with her and the dog, and also bring her to visit older friends and relatives.

    5. Jules the 3rd*

      Congratulations!

      I got bored, because the baby slept in between most feedings. So I took naps, took him for walks, read a lot, played some games, and started sneaking on-line to check work emails and emergencies around week 4 of my 6 weeks leave. I didn’t write anything, but I cleared my inbox and started a list of stuff to do once I got back.

    6. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      A lovely thing to do with small babies is learn some sign language and use it with them. Sometimes they’ll reply, with recognisable attempts to sign, before they can speak.
      Also, singing! This is a great time to learn some songs, even if you don’t think of yourself as a confident singer.

      1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

        I put that a bit wrong – “learning new songs” is an optional extra to “singing”, as most people already know some :-)

      2. Might Be Spam*

        My sister has her masters in early childhood education and works with babies. She teaches them sign language and says that they get less frustrated because sign language is easier than spoken language. They still pick up spoken language at the appropriate age.

      3. OtterB*

        My younger daughter hears fine but has major speech production issues. She worked with a speech therapist who taught her some sign. She was in the two-year-old room at day care (regular day care, not oriented to special needs, just generally great) when the teacher told me, laughing, that they’d had to teach the parents of the other kids a few signs, because as soon as the kids saw my daughter getting a response to a sign for “more” or “cookie,” the kids started signing for that too. :-)

        I read out loud to both my daughters. Some children’s books, but especially when they were very young, just whatever I would be reading anyway. Hearing the rhythms of language is good for them, and it was semi-interactive. There are still family jokes about me reading the Wall Street Journal to a newborn.

    7. Call Me Cordelia*

      Congrats on the little one! My girl is 13 months now and the past year has been a blast…silver lining to covid is all the time at home with her.

      I second the mom group suggestion above. Even zoom meetings will allow you to connect with families that are in a similar state of life. I’m still friends/friendly with the moms I did “mom group.” We‘be problem solved, shared sleep tips, discussed meeting milestones, helped each other through baby illnesses…I found to to be a lifesaver!

      I also recommend lots of walks and trips to coffee shops (be safe of course) and enjoy the the cuddles that come with the infant stage. Soon enough there will be a strict(Er) nap and feeding schedule.

    8. Dancing Otter*

      I don’t know how COVID-safe (or even available) this would be right now, but the Baby & Me exercise classes were great.

  11. StellaBella*

    Has anyone here ever had a frozen shoulder? If so, what did you do to get it back to normal? I am stretching and using tiger balm and hot showers and gentle exercise but this has been going on for over a month. Because of covid, am not too keen to go to physio any longer, tho I did go a few times before our virus counts spiked and am using those exercises.

    1. Quandong*

      Hi, yes, I have had a frozen shoulder and can share my experience. But I wanted to check first, do you have an official diagnosis? If so, what advice did you receive?

      It will make a difference to what I write especially if you have an informal assessment rather than a diagnosis from a shoulder specialist type of person.

      1. StellaBella*

        No, my doc looked at it and asked if i wanted more physio, so i may do this in a month if the virus is less present. She said it seemed very tight but is not an arm or muscle specialist. I was there for a pap smear. :/

      2. Nicole76*

        Not the OP but I’m going through this now and do have a diagnosis so I would really appreciate advice. I’ve been to PT twice now and have really poor range of motion. I can’t even put my hair up because I can’t reach that high or behind my back with my left arm.

      3. Freelance Accountant*

        My mother had a frozen shoulder after a car accident. After a year of physio and shots with no improvement she was desperate. What worked for her was accupuncture. She does not believe in alternative medicines or therapies AT ALL, so this gives you an idea of how desperate she was. I think her physiotherapist suggested it as a “can’t hurt, and might help” option.

    2. Outside Earthling*

      I had a frozen shoulder twice, once per shoulder. With the first one, I did a lot of physio. It was painful and expensive. Improvements were tiny. There was maybe a slight improvement in my range of motion but it was too small to be in any way meaningful. The second one I just left alone. I had faith by then that the situation would improve eventually, as I’d been through it with the first. I just gave it time and patience. It was a long haul but I got through it and am absolutely fine now.

    3. Hotdog not dog*

      I was diagnosed with a frozen shoulder last February, squeezed in one p t session in March, and then…. I did exactly what you’re doing now! I now have almost 100% range of motion back and no discomfort. It took a lot longer than I had hoped, but I think the stretching was key. I am still doing shoulder exercises to prevent a recurrence. I hope you recover quickly!

    4. WellRed*

      I’m on round 3. First was worst. Honestly, just keep stretching and doing the exercises. It really takes time (months) to slowly unfreeze but it did and I could tell the tiny incremental improvements.

    5. Worked in IT forever*

      Yes, I’ve had a frozen shoulder. For a while, I had very limited range of motion and a lot of pain if I did any sudden movements. I went to physio, but I was busy at work and somewhat lazy at doing the daily exercises on my own, which likely delayed my recovery.

      A sports medicine doctor gave me a cortisone shot in the back of my shoulder, which helped a lot to get me over the pain threshold. It might have helped with the range of movement, too. (This happened several years ago, so I can’t remember.) The doctor did say I could have a second cortisone shot, but repeated cortisone shots are not very good for you for some reason. By the time I saw him again, I was a fair bit better, so he advised against getting a second shot.

      I was eventually 100%. To be honest, I think it took close to a year to get the last little bit of range of movement back (see previous comment about lack of focus on physio exercises), but I was in decent shape before then.

    6. Bookslinger In My Free Time*

      It took months of twice weekly physio (pre shutdown) to unfreeze my shoulder. I do the exercises still, because the shoulder that froze is my less dominant side and prone to stiffening up again. Give it time- this won’t resolve all at once, but if you stick to the exercises and keep it moving it will improve.

    7. Fred*

      I’m in the UK so treatments my be different depending where you are. Both my shoulders have frozen (Thankfully not at the same time tho…) For the first one (Left shoulder) I initially got a diagnosis of frozen shoulder after a range of x-rays to check there were no fractures as my range of movement has gone to virtually zero. The first treatment I had was a steroid injection into the shoulder capsule but although this helped slightly with the pain it did nothing for movement, the second treatment was guided injections of saline, steroids and something else (don’t remember what) into the capsule to essentially flood the capsule and to force the ligaments that had atrophied and adhered to the capsule wall back to more where they were supposed to be. The main thing with frozen shoulder is the time frame of each of the stages – the first stage is the freezing stage and on average will last 6 months, during this time the movement you are capable of will decrease, the next stage is the actual frozen stage, again this will last on average 6 months, the final stage is the thawing stage and again this will last on average 6 months. I found the freezing stage and the thawing stage to be the most painful.
      Even with physio during the thawing stage you may not get 100% range of movement back.

      The differences with the second frozen shoulder (right) has only really been the method of the guided injection, for the left shoulder this was done with a sonagram and for the right shoulder it was using x-ray.
      The time frame is also slighly different as the first shoulder followed the average 18 month period to a T and I got 95% movement back, however the right shoulder has been going on for 24 months and I currently only have 80% movement.

    8. Kama'aina Kitty*

      I had a frozen shoulder when I was around 51. I tried a cortisone shot, which was very painful and gave only limited relief. I ended up seeing an osteopath (DO) who gave me this exercise: lie on your back. Take each arm one at a time and make circles across your body, 10 times in each direction. Imagine you’re trying to draw a circle on the ground with your hand from the left side, over your head, to the right, and across your hips/stomach. At first, you may only be able to make small circles in the air above you, but gradually your arm will come down to the floor. 10 times in each direction on each side at least twice a day. You must perform this exercise while lying on your back.

    9. Wishing You Well*

      A close relative had a frozen shoulder twice. She had to go in, get anesthetic and have it pulled free twice. After that, there was physical therapy. My own injured (but not frozen) shoulder never healed in a year, so I went in. I had to get shoulder-specific treatments that I could never have done myself.
      Keep doing your frozen-shoulder-specific exercises. More is not better in physical therapy, so don’t over do. No pain, no gain doesn’t always apply, either. Call or email your health care to get their opinion on how you’re doing and if they want to change your routine.
      Best of Luck. I hope your shoulder is 100% soon.

    10. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      Yes, I’ve had that. I think I remember reading that frozen shoulder _can_ come out of nowhere, but in my case, I think it was the offshoot of having overstretched either a tendon at the top of my bicep muscle, or a bit of the muscle. There was a specific “ouch” which came first, and the overall limited motion came on after that.

      Things that I definitely think helped:
      – Trusting it would recover in its own good time, and coming up with workarounds until then – e.g. how to put on my coat, which hand I used to put shampoo on my head, etc. Like Fred says, I looked up the predicted timescale for recovery (I think I found the same info, can’t quite remember now, something similar anyway), and set my expectations accordingly. Initially my shoulder & arm were quite painful if I moved them the wrong way, but as time went on, I knew what not to do and/or it just naturally didn’t hurt as much, and the whole problem mostly receded into the background. I forget exactly how long it took to go back to normal – probably around the average sort of time, 18 months to a couple of years, and the changes were quite gradual. Luckily there wasn’t much I had to do which involved raising my arm above my head, so once I’d got used to my workarounds, I mostly forgot about it.
      – Massage, to an extent. I don’t know how much that actually speeded up the recovery of the shoulder itself, but I think while it was in the initial painful stage, I’d tensed up, and the massage helped with undoing that tension, all up and down my arm and into my back and chest. Also, after I’d got back all the range of motion in my shoulder, I’d still feel a bit of a twinge in the middle of the joint sometimes, and massage definitely helped with loosening off the last little bit.

      Other options:
      – I was offered a steroid injection, but did my own research about that and decided not to have it. The gist of what I found out was that it might have reduced pain, but there wasn’t strong evidence of it actually helping the joint to heal.
      – I was given some exercises to do, but I didn’t feel they were helping. It seemed more like, it just got better when it decided to get better.
      – A suggestion for tendon/muscle injuries, which seemed like a good idea even though I didn’t actually do it very much, is to fill a small plastic bottle with water, freeze it, hold it via a towel or gloves, and use the end of the bottle to massage and cool the area that’s sore. I do wonder if, supposing I’d known about that option right at the start and had used it to cool and soothe the original injury, it wouldn’t have escalated into the shoulder joint! Can’t find out now :-)

    11. Lives in a Shoe*

      I did, in my early 50s. I couldn’t reach past the middle of my back and it was very painful. I did some stretching exercises until I broke my exercise band over the top of the sharp door – don’t do this, you can put your eye out – and what finally fixed it I am convinced is that I kept playing ultimate frisbee with my friends. I was so excited about the disk that I would reach out with a sore shoulder to catch and sometimes fall with an arm extended. It hurt, but after a few times, it was clear that it was just getting better. I think it was tearing loose.

    12. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Yes. My solution was regular swim exercise & stretches, including lifting myself on the racing platforms.
      Now that the pool’s been closed since March, I’m attempting wall stretches to keep it from tightening up again.

    13. Ariadne Oliver*

      Cortisone shot and physical therapy. If you don’t want to do the physical therapy, I would still do the shot. It made a lot of difference.

    14. Ouch!*

      Well, not sure what you mean by frozen shoulder is the same as what I mean…but I’ve had it several times. The only thing that has ever worked is a prescription muscle relaxant.

    15. Hi there*

      I haven’t had one (knocks wood) but was reading this morning in a group on Facebook that frozen shoulder can be common in perimenopause and menopause. (The group is aimed at active women in those times of life.)

      1. StellaBella*

        well interestingly I am in menopause thanks. I will keep doing exercises and warming it in the shower. this too shall pass I guess. thanks to everyone for the advice and ideas.

    16. Phoenix from the ashes*

      Honestly, I don’t think physio had any effect on my shoulder. I think that keeping the joint active within the pain-free region and not forcing it into the pain zone was much more effective. But frozen shoulders take a long time to come right.

  12. Lonely Aussie*

    Anyone know if sheer exhaustion after some pretty nasty pulmonary embolisms is normal? I came very close to actually dying from them (massive clot between my heart and lungs) and spent a week in ICU and then a few days on a normal ward. Now two weeks on I’m absolutely exhausted. I get so sleepy in the afternoon and while I’m not working full hours (3 hour shifts, 3 times a week) it’s a struggle. Breathing is still a little gaspy and I get so puffed easily. I dunno if this is a normal thing to have happen or if I should be talking to the docs again. I’m just really scared I’m going to be told I shouldn’t be working.

    1. Jane Smith*

      Yes, absolutely normal and completely to be expected. Your body is still healing.
      Rest often and pace your activities (I’d actually say if you can take more time off work that would help but don’t know if that’s feasible for you). 2 weeks after the fact is still very early days. Take it very easy.
      Experience: work with stroke (& some caused by PE).

      1. Jane Smith*

        At any rate, talk to your docs about your concerns. They may recommend not working for a bit, but you still have control over your medical choices right now.

        1. Lonely Aussie*

          Thanks, I’m in a really tough spot with work. My doctors in hospital were pushing for more time off (or a completely new job) and while I appreciate the concern, I’m also currently on WorkCover from a totally different injury and unless I follow the return to work plan, I don’t get paid.

          1. Cary*

            …I think your condition has changed (which WorkCover at least *claims online* that it wants to know about) and your return to work plan needs review.

            (I know, might not be possible, but ideally…)

            1. Lonely Aussie*

              It’s not possible because this wasn’t related to the first injury. Spent a couple of hours on the phone with works insurance company and HR while in the ICU trying to sort it out. The insurance company was annoyed I’d missed a Dr’s appointment and a physio session while in ICU.

              1. Cary*

                Ugh, how frustrating!

                What do you mean by “annoyed”? What did they do?

                The thing about these bureaucratic systems, their whole design is they make scary threats and nonsensical complaints, but they (are supposed to) then accept a “reasonable excuse.” Which you have. Like if you have a problem, you’re *expected* to break the draconian rule and then give a “reasonable excuse.” Typically.

                I get the impression there have been ombudsman complaints about WorkCover not accepting reasonable excuses though. Was your ombudsman able to help at all?

                (Another avenue might be incapacitation pay. I guess that’s under JobSeeker now? Apparently another bureaucratic nightmare…you may turn out to need it though.)

                Good luck with your recovery. Please get as much rest as you can. You deserve it!

                1. Lonely Aussie*

                  The person whose dealing with my claim basically tried to say I was non-compliant with the treatment required. When I asked her how I was supposed to make an appointment outside the hospital when I couldn’t even take a piss on a proper toilet because walking more than two steps was beyond me even with oxygen she said I was hostile. The nurse who was looking after me at the time basically walked in and said that I needed to get off the phone because the stress of the whole situation was pushing up my heart rate. We’ve spoken since but it’s pretty tense.
                  The guy at work who deals with the company side of workcover and who I first called actually wanted to speak to my doctors. I tried to shut that down and he kept pushing so I handed him over to a really lovely nurse who basically confirmed I was in ICU and then told him to mind his own business in polite but very firm nurse speak.

            2. CC*

              Is the blood clot potentially related to the original injury ? For example, if you are on WorkCover for an orthopedic injury than the PE might actually be part of the orthopedic injury (as a result of it).

              1. Lonely Aussie*

                Unfortunately, while the limited movement for the injury probably didn’t help matters I was on BC which the insurance company thinks trumps it all. :(

                1. Natalie*

                  Is there any kind of appeals process or some kind of medical ombudsman that can help you? (I’m not Australian so not familiar with the system.) Hormonal bc can increase clot risk, but the overall risk is still incredibly low (less than 0.1%), assuming you don’t smoke and are under age 45. The risk increase from certain types of injuries and limited mobility is higher, especially if you had any kind of surgery. It’s just not statistically accurate for them to assume your birth control was the cause.

                2. Lonely Aussie*

                  There possibly is. I’m just at the point where I don’t have the energy to fight with the whole situation. I don’t smoke, I’m not yet thirty and I barely drink.
                  My physio for the first injury keeps trying to tell me that the pain is in my head. (Which, even if it is, still hurts) she’s pushing for me to do more yoga type stretches but it’s hard to do as many as she wants.
                  The doctor who’s working with WorkCover straight up told me it was offensive for it to have been suggested as a WorkCover issue. And the insurance company is basically threatening me with cutting off my WorkCover if I don’t comply with the physio and return to work plan.
                  The company I work for have also made it clear they’re not happy with me. I’d quit but there’s not a lot going and I’m worried if I don’t resolve this injury I’ll be poop out of luck if it flares up later in another job assuming I’d pass a medical right now.

              2. Lonely Aussie*

                Unfortunately I was taking BC so as far as the insurance company is concerned that’s the source. I personally think that the limited amount of movement I was able to do (after being fairly active at work) probably contributed given I’d never had an issue with the pill (it probably saved my life tbh) but it’s impossible to tell.

    2. WS*

      Totally normal. Anything to do with your heart or lungs is going to leave you exhausted, let alone anything requiring a week in ICU. I would expect them to tell you to pace yourself, but not to cut out anything specific. You should definitely keep checking in about the breathing because they need to continue monitoring your lung function.

    3. CC*

      I had a PE when I was 23 & ended up taking 2 months off work (between my time in the hospital & time at home afterwards). You are going to be completely exhausted trying to work 2 weeks later. If you need & want to work, your doctor will probably let you – but be aware that it will probably take you longer to get your normal energy level back than if you took more time now. (And even at the 2 month point, I was tired. Of course, it didn’t help that I worked in the hospital at the time & one of my first days back one of the ICU doctors made a comment about being surprised to see me back at work because I had been so sick he thought I was going to die.)

      1. Lonely Aussie*

        Eek not the most tactful of him. My GP was pretty thrilled to see me after getting released from the hospital, I rocked up to a doctor’s appointment thinking I had heartburn or something and she put me straight onto oxygen and called an ambulance.
        I can’t take anymore time off, I was really lucky that I happened to be on holidays when it hit because I was out of sick leave.

    4. SunnySideUp*

      Your body is recovering from a major upset. It needs time and plenty of rest. Be good to yourself and hope you feel better soon. And yeah, please talk to your HC providers!

    5. RagingADHD*

      Yes. If you almost died 2 weeks ago from anything, it is normal to still feel weak and fatigued.

      The fact that the hospital discharges someone doesn’t mean they are fully recovered. It means they dont need 24-hour medical supervision, and the risks of staying in the hospital are higher than the risks of being at home.

    6. Squidhead*

      Unless it was surgically removed (unusual in my experience; I’m an ICU nurse) the PE is probably still there, slowly dissolving (part of your body’s normal coagulation/anti-coagulation process). Whatever anti-coagulation medicine they put you on is to help prevent it from getting bigger and reduce the chance of new ones. But yes, your body is probably still not getting the full benefit of each breath you take because the PE is blocking some of the blood vessels in the lung. Air goes in and out, but the oxygen can’t get into the blood. (This is all on top of the fact that *any* ICU stay is exhausting.) Not saying you shouldn’t check in with your actual doctor…you definitely should be getting follow-up care after this!

      1. Lonely Aussie*

        The nurses in ICU were the best, so thank you for all that you do. At one stage they were considering surgery from what I’ve been told but decided on just pumping me full of blood thinners. I felt really good after the powerful thinners and had almost forgotten that they were still there (I think they said it was a bilateral PE). I went from barely managing to take a step to being able to walk to the loos alone. The first day on the general ward I kept getting up and walking around the room because I just needed to move. Now I’m home and just want to sleep for a month.

  13. Bobina*

    I’ve got a bunch of loose black tea that…is kind of terrible. What can I do with it other than toss it? I’ve used it for ice tea before and it needs a lot of sugar and lemon to make it palatable for me. I keep thinking there must be something more interesting I can do with it but when I looked for recipes, other than incorporating it in cookies or (meat)rubs I haven’t found any other ideas.

    1. Nela*

      If you’re into arts and crafts, you can use the brewed tea to stain watercolor paper and make it look vintage :)
      You could keep the paper soaked in a tub for a while, or dab the tea on with a spunge or something. I’m sure there are many tutorials on YouTube.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        What about using it to smoke your own salmon (or chicken)? I once saw somebody do it on television.

        1. Bobina*

          I feel like smoking things is a bit beyond me to be honest! But maybe I should investigate it a little bit more :)

          1. Chocolate Teapot*

            Funnily enough, I bought a magazine today which had a recipe for smoking your own salmon!

            It was a hybrid recipe, in which the raw salmon is cured for a day (like Gravadlax), and then, the rinsed (and well dried) salmon is steamed in a pan. The instructions were to put tea and wood chips in the bottom of the pan, heat, and once it starts smoking, put the salmon in a steamer, cover and leave for 7 minutes. (NB. After 3 the heat should be switched off)

    3. CoffeeforLife*

      I made black tea pork chops. Sorry no recipe as it was long ago but I remember brewing strong tea as a braising liquid. There are several recipes on the web.

    4. KeinName*

      Add it to Henna powder when coloring your hair. Maybe it can be used for other cosmetics as well. I suppose you could also flavour frosting for cake.

    5. Hotdog not dog*

      If you like the smell of it, you can use it to deodorize shoes or rugs. Sprinkle it on, let it sit a few hours and then vacuum the rug (or empty out the shoes). I used to put cheap tea bags in my teenage son’s sports equipment. It really helps!

    6. nep*

      Sometimes I’ll put some loose tea in bars I make. Might be an option, if you ever make homemade bars. Or mix into a smoothie?

    7. WellRed*

      I’m gonna go against the grain and give you permission to toss it. Life is too short to expend so much time and thought on how to use tea you don’t like.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        That’s my thought, too. I think sometimes there’s value in making the effort to find another use for something you don’t care for, and it’s great to not want to waste something that’s perfectly good, but I wouldn’t waste any time or effort on something like tea. Unless it was something like five pounds of the stuff and/or I’d spent a lot of money on it.

      2. Courageous cat*

        I always think it’s fascinating how here and on Reddit people will go to great lengths to save something really minor/small/cheap that they don’t even really like. Sunk cost fallacy and all that. Get rid of it! No reason to keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

      4. Bobina*

        Ahaha. I was kind of reaching that point, but cultural upbringing means throwing away food is *a bad thing* so I generally like to make sure I’ve exhausted all my options before I get to that!

    8. Stephanie*

      Maybe use it as a deodorizer if you like the smell — just sprinkle it on the rug/carpet and vacuum it up. I’ve made a good chai ice cream using black tea — there might be enough sugar, fat, and other spices to balance out the tea taste. But if you don’t like the taste, might be hard to use it in cooking!

    10. Not A Manager*

      I’ve never done the stovetop home smoking, but I have several friends who swear by it. They say it is not very difficult but you do have to somewhat jury-rig the setup if you’re just using your own kitchen stuff. I like to experiment, so I would give that a try. Also seconding that black tea makes a lovely home dye.

      But also, yeah, if you don’t like it just toss it.

    12. lazy intellectual*

      If it doesn’t smell bad, some sort of at home skin treatment? Like a scrub or face mask?

    13. Chaordic One*

      Sunk fallacy costs. I get it.

      Maybe just sort of sneak a small amount into whatever you’re cooking or baking as a sort of spice. Cookies or bread. Soup, stew or sauce. Hopefully, it won’t have much of an impact on the taste. Like how some mothers were encouraged to sneak vegetables into other foods that their children like.

    14. Cary*

      You can compost it with your brown matter, or brew it and use the (cold) tea to water acid-loving plants such as African violets!

    16. higheredrefugee*

      You can use it to make kombucha if you have a starter or access to a bottle of plain kombucha. I have been doing it for years, and when I lapse, I can tell – my gut tells me ASAP.

    17. Fellow Traveller*

      One of my favorite savory snacks are Taiwanese Tea Eggs. You basically boil eggs and then marinate them in a mixture of soy sauce, tea, and star anise. (You can add other things too like cinnamon or orange rind). You can either marinate the eggs peeled, or you can crack them gently then put them in the marinade. The former has a better flavour, but the latter method produces an egg that has a beautiful spiderweb-like pattern. It’s a very popular snack in Taiwan – they sell them in large vats everywhere, even the 7-11.

      1. Bobina*

        Ahhhhh. My brain is super torn as to whether this would be delicious or awful. Thank you for this suggestion though. I am immensely intruiged.

    18. Bobina*

      Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I know I could have just tossed it but I really hate the idea of doing that.

      Top suggestions I will probably try:
      – Jane Smith gave me the idea of cake and I’ve found some recipes for basically masala chai cakes so that went straight to the top
      – Deoderising things: excellent idea. I do have sports equipment that gets smelly so can definitely be used there
      – Plant food/composting: I have plants. This will probably be the thing I do if after all of the above there is any leftover.

  14. Jane Smith*

    You can add chai spices for a cuppa, or soak dried fruit in it to make Dundee cake or Christmas cake.

  15. Detective Rosa Diaz*

    I will be meeting my foster son next week! Hopefully I can also meet his mom that same day (complicated situation).
    The next couple of meetings will be soon after, and he will be moving here on the 19th!
    The practical prep is going well, and I already got so many recommendations here, but I would like to look ahead a bit to activities, bonding time, etc. Of course I will try to replicate his current routine as much as possible, but would still like more ideas as to what activities I can do with him besides the physical care and talking, walking, toys,… He is 7 months old (preemie – corrected to five months and doing well on that curve).

    1. Amy*

      So exciting! :)

      I really enjoyed Music Together with my baby at that age. They have franchises all over the country – in the USA, at least. I think most have moved their classes to Zoom due to the pandemic but especially at that age it’s really more about you singing and interacting with your baby as opposed to them being around the other kids, so I think it could still work.

    2. Teatime is Goodtime*

      So the really cool thing about babies and small children is that the whole world is really interesting. Mundane tasks or items are things they’ve never seen before, or things they’ve never understood before. The discovery factor is huge and so much fun to watch. Which is all to say: your whole house, your every day life, will be totally fascinating. Baby toys and baby activities are great, but also know that everything in your house and everything you do will be great too.

      Things I did a lot with my child at that age:
      -Walks. So many walks. Tree walks, field walks, street walks, walking by any place that had lots of commotion just to watch from afar (playgrounds, schools, businesses, bus stops, horse riding school, places where birds were nesting, anything). Any place my son loved, we went back often.
      -Kitchen stuff that stacked or whacked or could fit inside other things was gold. Tupperware! So much tupperware. It’s like learning physics but for babies–what happens when I do x? What noise does it make when y happens?
      -Random objects that locked his attention. We had about two weeks where our doorstops were the coolest things in the house.
      -Housework tasks that needed doing. Vacuuming with a small child is totally different! Takes longer but is so much fun, or at least it was for us. Cooking with him watching me stir. Loading the washer and pressing the buttons. Make these things an activity! Yes, it takes longer, but it’s wonderful bonding and discovery time.
      -Food! Let him squish it. Let him eat it. Let him throw it on the floor. Plan a bath right after. Totally fun. Sensory learning is great and really important.
      -Reading. We read as much and as long as we could. There are such great books out there, but you can also read the ingredients list on non-breakable food containers or magazines that you get free somewhere that he can rip to shreds and so on
      -Cant go wrong with peekaboo. Can’t go wrong with repeating back what he says to you. Can’t go wrong with talking to him about anything and everything. It doesn’t have to be magic words or perfect activities. Just be yourself, but with him.

      That’s all to say that my advice is to just live your life, but live it now with a small one attached to you and see what happens. :) Woo! I’m so excited for you!

      1. CC*

        My only comment is to be careful with the washing machine play. Some children have gotten into the washing machines & died after they started. So, make sure the laundry room locks when you are not in there if playing with it.

      3. Detective Rosa Diaz*

        Thank you so much for this list and esp. “It doesn’t have to be magic words or perfect activities. Just be yourself, but with him.”
        It made me feel a lot better. I suddenly was like, what if I can’t entertain him properly? And feeling insecure.

    3. Hotdog not dog*

      My son was fascinated with containers at that age. Pull out the Tupperware, plastic cups, anything clean and sturdy that he can put inside each other, bang together, peer into the bottom of, fill up and empty (in the bath). We could have saved a fortune in toys had we known a free plastic souvenir mug would be his prized possession!

        1. Natalie*

          One of the things my daughter loves to do is watch our pets. They are apparently fascinating, even just sitting still will sometime elicit a lot of giggles. If your cat likes any kind of toys, playing with the cat with baby on your lap or sitting nearby would be immensely interesting to him.

    4. Pennyworth*

      Plenty of talking, about everything you are doing together, as well as reading to him. The more language he is exposed to the better it will be for his mental development and vocabulary. No screens. Make sure he gets outside during the day, latest research is that the world epidemic of myopia is due to children being indoors most of the time.

    5. OtterB*

      I see a couple of people mentioned tupperware and such. We filled a lower kitchen cabinet with things our kids were allowed to stack and bang (while putting latches on the other lower cabinets).

  16. Not An Expert*

    The Green Lantern (movie)
    I know it’s old and wasn’t well received, but I’m hoping someone can explain a detail Google could not. Also, I have not read the comics and know nothing about it past the first hour of the movie.

    I have not finished it because I went searching the interwebs, so if it’s answered in the movie, let me know.

    If Abin Sur imprisoned the Parallax why don’t any of the other Lanterns remember? Was that guy thousands of years old and the others just… forgot?

    It’s really bugging me, like such a huge plot hole I can’t get past. Tangentially, what movie plot holes bother you?

    1. Jackalope*

      I’m not familiar with that movie so can’t speak to it, but related to your tangential question…. Years ago I watched a French movie that had some plot holes the size of a planet. To give you an idea, one of the key points is that the main character discovered that she was probably switched at birth by accident and wanted to get to know her birth family. The thing was, the person she was switched at birth with was… a boy. They weren’t even in a huge area or anything, more a medium-sized town if I remember correctly, and it seemed so impossible to me that no one in either family AND none of the hospital staff would realize that her mom had given birth to a girl but was leaving with a boy and vice versa. This was back at a time when babies were taken away and put in a nursery soon after birth, but STILL; it was a small enough place that I can’t imagine there were THAT many babies born on that particular day, such that they’d lose track.

      So, assuming you could roll your eyes at that and move on, the plot thickened. (This next section is going to be very spoiler-y, be warned!) She contacted her possible birth family and discovered that her birth mom had died in mysterious circumstances a few years earlier, and her birth father had married someone else. You basically figure out that the stepmother had drugged the mother with Rohypnol (Roofies) before the mother went out on a drive, and she fell asleep at the wheel and died, leaving the stepmother free to marry the father. Years later, the father is taking Rohypnol every day for a medical condition, and the stepmother is taking some of them and putting them in the son’s nightly tea that she brings him. For a bit when this part first came up I thought the movie was going to some super dark places, but it turns out the stepmother isn’t *doing* anything after she drugs the young man; she just does it because…. Because she can? Because she feels like it? Because… who knows? Somehow the father never notices that she’s regularly taking some of his prescription pills and that his prescription presumably runs out super fast. Because… plot??

      So at the end our protagonist has been staying with them, and the stepmother knows that she and the young man have figured out that the stepmother basically murdered the mother. So she makes them up some “special tea” and gives it to them, all the while asking them to run into town on an errand to pick something up for her. Town is about 50 min away on a long winding road. It’s the same long winding road the mother fell asleep on a few years ago. The protagonist and young man KNOW that she is trying to do the same thing to them. So, dear reader, what would YOU do in this situation? A) Confront the stepmother, call her out, call the police, or otherwise do something to make sure she ends up in jail? B) Take the tea and pretend to sip at it before dumping it in the potted plant, then get the hell out of Dodge? C) Find some way to politely refuse to drink it, then say you’re going on the errand and get the hell out of Dodge? or D) Take the tea, drink it because you don’t want to be rude, and then get behind the wheel of the car and head out on the errand.

      Readers, they chose D.

      The movie ends with them being part of the way down the mountain and (if I remember correctly) a sort of vague scene making it look like they might have gotten into an accident or possibly just swerved, then cuts back to the stepmother who is looking horrified and dismayed at what she has just done. Or something like that.

      1. CoffeeforLife*

        I would be so grossly dissatisfied watching that. Possibly, you’d find me yelling at the screen.

        1. Jackalope*

          I know. French movies work very differently from American movies in terms of pacing and what is considered an acceptable ending or plot point, but this was beyond the pale for me. Although I’m kind of glad I saw it so I could have a Worst Movie Plot ever in my back pocket for moments like this.

    2. Belle*

      In the books, it was the Green Lanterns bosses that imprisoned him and didn’t tell the Lanterns (so they wouldn’t know he was there).

      But I don’t know how the movie handled it.

  17. Guilty daughter*

    My entire immediate family in NJ (mom, dad, and brother) have all been diagnosed with COVID. My mother is already laying down the guilt for me to come for Christmas from CT, and I really, really don’t want to go.

    What do I tell her?

    1. sswj*

      That you are so very sorry the pandemic has forced so many difficult changes and you are so sad not to be able to come this year, and let’s plan on some Zoom/FaceTime/WebEx get togethers.

      And maybe, if you can distract her with flattery, ask for a special recipe of hers, or advice on how to do something she loves that you don’t already do for holidays so you can have a bit of her Christmas at home this year.

      Stick to your guns. You are in the right and her feelings about are her own to manage. Stay well …

      1. Guilty daughter*

        My excuse was going to be giving them corona. Now they all have it, and my mom is already insisting that they’ll be fine before the 25th. Even if they are, I don’t want to go.

          1. Sunflower*

            CDC guidance won’t help in this case most likely. As long as you don’t have severe case and your symptoms are improving and you go 24 hours without a fever(it was 72 and looks like they updated it), you are allowed to be around people after 10 days as the virus is at 0 capability of spreading.

            1. SunnySideUp*

              But if they think they’re fine and everything is back to normal, they’ll be out in public and picking it up again.

              What is with people? Stay the fuck home and stay alive.

              1. Guilty Daughter*

                My dad was supposed to get knee surgery (hence the test), so he almost definitely picked it up at the hospital during one of the pre-operation things and then brought it home.

              2. Sunflower*

                I was just stating the CDC guidance which will most likely have the opposite impact the OP was looking for. It’s only going to give her mom more ammo to push her to come home.

                If you have a problem with the guidance contact the CDC

                1. Sunflower*

                  This is true and the likelihood of reinfection at this stage in research is ‘rare but possible’. Unfortunately, our testing is still not great so and tests are so sensitive that they pick up dead tissue and can give a positive results months later when a person is not contagious.

                  I don’t mention this or the CDC guidance to encourage people travel or expose themselves to the virus, I say it because it’s science and I believe in educating people on risks instead of giving governance like ‘just stay home’ with no context.

              4. Observer*

                It’s not likely that they will be picking it up again. While it’s true that it is possible to get reinfected, it really does seem to be extremely rare. And if you don’t get infected, you don’t give it to others.

                That’s the main reason the vaccines are expected to make such a difference, even though it’s going to take a long time to get everyone covered.

        2. Pennyworth*

          And now you don’t want to catch corona! Remember, no matter how much guilt they pile on, they can’t force you to be there.

        3. Oxford Comma*

          “We’re not comfortable traveling or gathering with anyone outside our household.” (Then offer the virtual, phone options). I think if you offer up excuses, that just gives them a way to try and get around it.

            1. ....*

              Just say I will not be traveling this year under any circumstances. Just say no. There’s no other advice to be given. You don’t want to go. Say no.

            2. Ask a Manager* Post author

              But “outside our household” means “people we don’t live with” (not “people outside our family”).

              The bigger point, though, is that I think you’re looking for magic words that will satisfy your mom and there probably aren’t any because your mom is unreasonable. You have to shift how you’re looking at this — you don’t need to convince her in order to be able to stay home. You get to stay home if that’s what you decide to do because you are an adult who is in charge of your own safety and risk assessments. It’s a bonus if she’s okay with it, but she doesn’t need to be okay with it for you to still make your own decision.

              So: “Mom, I love you and we’ll miss you, but we don’t feel safe coming this year. I don’t want to debate it because I know how upsetting it is to all of us. This is the decision, and we’ll be together next year.”

              And then if she keeps pushing: “It’s upsetting me that you keep pushing this so I’m going to go now, but I’ll call you later in the week.”

              1. Generic Name*

                This. Setting a boundary doesn’t mean that the other person agrees with you and feels good about what you are doing. It’s about saying “this is what I am doing” and sticking with that. If the other person doesn’t like it, oh well. It’s not up to you to manage their feelings about it (or anything else).

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Work on ignoring the guilt trip. She will come at you, so just be prepared and say no. Don’t make excuses. You don’t feel safe traveling, period.

      My family is all about guilt. It took a long time (and a lot of therapy) to recognize that their guilt trips don’t outweigh my reason or my discomfort.

      1. Dan*

        Yeah… my ex and her family were one big walking guilt trip. She had this uncanny ability to attempt to turn *anything* into a guilt trip. She wanted to work in health care, and consequently worked shift work. Me? I’m a software developer with no set hours — just get the work done. One day, she whines, “It’s not faaaiiiirrrrr…. I have to be at work at 6am and can’t be late, you just roll out of bed whenever, pick up the same pair of jeans you wore yesterday, and nobody cares.”

        After awhile, it just seemed like anything was positioned as a guilt trip to get the guilt going to then soften one up for something totally unrelated.

        The weird thing is, those patterns either work or you get desensitized to it. I went with the later, because it was pretty much like, “ok… so you want me to feel guilty about having the job that pays the rent and puts food on the table? That’s weird.”

        I actually wonder where those patterns originated. They use them because they work, but they had to learn them from somewhere.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Tell her that decisions made on the basis of emotions usually don’t work out too well. Tell her that if she gets it a second time she may not be as lucky to “get over it” the second time. Remind her a holiday is basically one day out of a year’s worth of days. You’d rather know that she is well and healthy for the upcoming year’s worth of days.

      Here, the idea is to make it all about her. I am skeptical you will gain ground if you say you are worried about your own well-being.

      If nothing works, then you can just say, “I love you, mom and so therefore I am not coming.” Say it with a tone of finality in your voice.

    4. Millicent*

      Honestly? There’s no answer you can tell her that will satisfy her, unless it’s a yes. So just keep saying you can’t make it this year and repeat it every time she asks. Don’t bother explaining it or giving different excuses or trying to get her to understand why you can’t go. Just focus on keeping yourself safe, which means not going there for Christmas and repeating your no.

      1. LGC*

        Yeah. Honestly, she’s going to be upset regardless of what you say, OP. Unless you decide to go.

        The good news, OP, is that you’re already set in your decision. So just say you can’t make it and given the general situation – that for example, confirmed cases are already well over the spring peak and hospitalizations are substantially up – you don’t feel safe. Even if they’ve hopefully recovered from COVID-19 by Christmas.

      2. pancakes*

        +1. She’s not entitled to a response that satisfies her, or to steamroll over any that doesn’t.

    5. Hotdog not dog*

      I’m in NJ. Don’t take either trip…the actual one or the guilt trip! My family is in a similar situation with loved ones out of state and while none of us are happy about it, we are consoling ourselves by planning a huge blowout end of pandemic party…date still TBD.

    6. Mimosa Jones*

      There are no magic words that are going to make her understand your point of view. But that can be freeing. Find the phrase that works for you and keep repeating it.

    7. Bookslinger In My Free Time*

      I already told my parents we won’t be at family Christmas. My husband and I have very compromised immune systems, and I really don’t want to deal with the potential risk of orphaning my kids. We haven’t told his family yet- they are more likely to try a guilt trip, even though his dad has COVID right now, about how we are ruining Christmas or some nonsense. “Mom, I won’t be there in person, that’s not going to change, but I will be thinking of you and would love to video chat with everyone all at once. Gifts are in the mail, gotta go, love you, byeee!” And hang up and go do something very absorbing that just happens to be away from the phone for a bit.

    8. SunnySideUp*

      I know this is pouring salt in wounds, but SERIOUSLY? How can she even ask you to come and get COVID and then take it back to CT?

      I just don’t understand people.

      1. Natalie*

        If they have it now (Dec 5th) they won’t be contagious 20 days from now.

        That doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for OP to travel, but it’s obviously not the same as their family asking OP to come over today.

        1. pancakes*

          It doesn’t follow that everyone and anyone their daughter along the way isn’t contagious either, or that they can’t / won’t get it again. Either way, trying to insist that someone visit during an airborne pandemic is extremely self-regarding.

            1. pancakes*

              I don’t think saying it’s not a good idea to travel does address how self-regarding it is to urge someone to do so anyhow.

      2. LGC*

        Logistically, they’re all in the same buffer zone. (CT/NY/NJ/PA, and I believe DE?) And New Jersey and Connecticut aren’t that far away – about an hour or so from Fairfield (CT) to Bergen (NJ) County. (So Stamford to Paramus.)

        For NJ residents, we’re not asked to self isolate if we’re coming from one of the other four states. I’m not sure what the rules are in CT, but I imagine it’s similar. (Probably a slightly different list – I’d think New England, New York, and New Jersey.)

        You’re right that it’s a bad idea. But we’re already intertwined, so I can see why her parents think it’s okay.

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Depends on which part. It’s 200+ miles from Williamantic CT to Trenton NJ, and there are someextreme variat I ns of density & transmission rate in both states.
          I am not going from central CT to western CT, even.

          2. LGC*

            I mean, I did say that it was a bad idea. But it read to me like SunnySideUp was making travel between the two states to be a big formal deal, when travel between those states isn’t restricted to begin with.

            Or, in short: the spirit of her argument is right, but the particulars are shaky. We’re already “allowed” to swap our ‘ronas, in that we can go back and forth with no restrictions. And I was arguing that point, not that OP should give in to her mom because it’s fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

    9. Alex*

      I just went through this with my family for Thanksgiving.

      I had to just live with the fact that I was making a different decision than they wanted me to. I went with “Visiting isn’t a good idea this year. I’ll see you on Zoom.” The end.

      Yes, my mom told me I was wrong, and came up with 100 reasons and scenarios why everything would be Just Fine. I let her have her opinion but didn’t let it affect my decision.

      It was hard. But I think I made the right decision, and once my mom got over her anger and saw I wasn’t budging and that she could either have Zoomsgiving with me or nothing, she took Zoomsgiving. And she’s also going to need to accept Christmazoom too.

    10. SwitchingGenres*

      Tell her there’s a pandemic and you cannot go. You don’t have to listen to any guilt trips or give any other reason. It’s not safe. That’s it. Don’t go!

    11. Natalie*

      Something it took me a LONG time to learn about setting boundaries: it’s not contingent on the other party accepting them or agreeing with you. In fact, they almost never do, that’s why you have to “set a boundary” rather than “communicate a decision” in the first place.

      Your family’s feelings aren’t yours to control. What you can do right now is decide what actions or behaviors you need (from you, or from them), communicate those clearly, and then follow through. So decide you’re not going, and communicate that you’ve made your decision and you aren’t revisiting it. Then decide what you want to do when your mom brings it up again – change the subject? Repeat something bland until she gives up? Hang up the phone? All of the above?

      Devote your “feelings” energy to yourself.

    12. RagingADHD*

      You learn to accept guilt without letting yourself be manipulated.

      “Mom, you raised me not to be reckless. Obviously it’s not safe- you’ve all caught it. I don’t want to catch it, too. I hope you will all recover easily with no long-term consequences, but there’s no telling with this stuff. I love you and we can video chat on the day, if you want.”

      Calmly exercising your own judgment without defensiveness in the face of parental disagreement/disapproval is a big hurdle in becoming a fully separate adult. Your mom may be sad about missing you at Christmas. She’s allowed to be sad, and you’re entitled to be sad, too. It’s a sad situation!

      She would be a lot sadder if you died.

    13. I'm A Little Teapot*

      It sucks, but it’s not safe to travel. You wish things were different, but they’re not, and you and they will get through this. Then plan a zoom call.

    14. LGC*

      …wait, I’m just curious, were you the poster who was asking about going to your parents’ for Thanksgiving? If you are:

      1) In hindsight, although I hedged a bit, I really hope you didn’t go!
      2) I kind of said this already and Alison already said this, but it bears repeating: there probably isn’t a response that will make your mom happy. At least, in the moment. I did just think of something – would you be able to defer going to see her?

      For example, would you be able to see your family in the spring or summer? I think part of your mom’s anxiety is that she doesn’t know when she’s going to be able to see you again, and Christmas is a time for FAMILY and TOGETHERNESS. And…I’ll be blunt, but she might see the fact that they’re all sick now as a plus – hopefully, if they all have mild cases, they’ll recover by the week before Christmas. It also seems like peak contagiousness is in the days just before and just after symptoms start (so two days before symptoms start until five days after). So she might be assuming that everything will be fine and they’ll be immune and non-contagious for Christmas.

      Even if you could push that off until Easter or the summer, that might help.

      And yes, your mom is being a grade-A jerk. But…I’m trying to be compassionate to her here.

  18. Kali*

    Can we talk about kids menus in restaurants? I like them because restaurant portions are normally so oversized, so a kid’s meal is a great deal. I initially thought they were quite straightforward, you pay a bit less for less food, seems like a good deal for everyone. That is how it works in fast food (I grew up poor), and I still love a happy meal today (at 32). But a few years ago, I noticed some places were really off with you if you wanted to order a kid’s meal as an adult (I’m British, it’s not about the top). I googled and apparently some places offer kids meals at a loss to appeal to families, since the parent will also need to be there ordering food and they make their profit there. I guess that explains why they don’t want me to do it, but how was anyone supposed to know that’s the system? And how do you know when that’s the case or when it’s McDonalds rules? Some places in a similar price range do just offer smaller plates for slightly less. I guess the strict places do specify “for kids under 12” or whatever, but if you know nothing about the “behind the scenes” of family restaurants, those can be mistaken for guidelines, not a strict rule.

    1. WS*

      Fancy and/or independent places tend to be the ones that restrict the kids’ menu to under-12s. Chain restaurants of any kind should be fine. And you can always ask for “entree size” – this is what my (tiny) mother does.

      1. CoffeeforLife*

        Just don’t asked for entree size in the US, that’s our main meal portion :) We like to make up new meanings for words.

        1. lazy intellectual*

          Same. Or a side/soup. I’ve always been one of those people who preferred sides to actual entrees – like mac and cheese or mashed potatoes.

    2. Kali*

      To clarify, I mostly do have the system figured out now, I don’t need help there but…how are people supposed to figure it out if they don’t know?

      1. Thankful for AAM*

        I thought the menu usually says that kids meals are only for a certain age or that they accompany adult meals. Maybe many ppl learned that from the menus so they dont put it on there anymore? Also, sometimes you only learn things by trying, thats ok.

      2. Something Blue*

        Possibly you’re not supposed to know! I kind of assumed that the restaurant assumes adults will only be looking at the adult menu and won’t really think about ordering a kids’ meal for themselves.

        I learned about the portion size from news articles with “tips” about eating out but I hadn’t known about the kids’ meals being sold at a loss.

      3. legalchef*

        I think most restaurants assume that adults won’t be looking at the kids menu, since the food on the kids menu is usually “kid food” made to appeal to a pickier eater who won’t want fancy French food or whatever (chicken nuggets, plain pasta, etc), so they don’t bother specifying that it should only be ordered for kids.

        1. Kali*

          Sure, you ask if you realise your assumptions were wrong. But I’ve got the impression there’s not much to give away the fact that the assumption – you just pay the money and get the food at the price they’re willing to pay, even if it’s less food than they would normally expect an adult to order – is incorrect prior to the point where staff think you’re intentionally taking advantage. Especially since, that’s not really an unreasonable assumption and it does work that way in most places. How do most people figure that out? By noticing staff subtly indicating you were doing something they didn’t like and then asking/looking it up like I did? Or do other people find it out in other ways? This whole thing just seems so inefficient and impractical, I feel like I *must* be missing something.

          2. LQ*

            I think that you’re giving this a very outsized amount of attention in your head.

            Lots of places will say “Kids menu” or “Under 12” because that deals with 98% of people, you happen to be in the 2%. You are the rare person who did the research. Most of the 2% (or whatever) are just what the restaurant deals with the same as any other thing, they wrap it into the costs and deal with it.

            If all things that addressed a very small percent of the population were written out explicitly and clearly and with the full detail, no one would read it because that’s what the T&C is and no one reads those either. What you are looking for is a menu terms and conditions/terms of service. They don’t exist in most places. I’ve been to restaurants who do them, I have never gone back to those places because they are litigators who serve food, not people who care about food and service.

            I don’t think you’re missing anything. It’s just lots of stuff is unspoken in the world.

            1. Kali*

              That line isn’t a contradiction!

              I am happy with the amount of attention I’m giving the issue. I’m not thrilled that I didn’t figure out exactly what was bothering me about it until after my initial comment, so this hasn’t been terribly effective in eliciting the discussion I wanted, but we live and learn.

          3. Natalie*

            I mean ask them if you can order off the kids menu. If you want to explain you like the smaller portions, you can. They will either say yes or no, and you can just accept their answer. You really don’t need to second guess it for them.

            1. Elizabeth West*

              Sometimes if you do this and explain you want smaller portions, they’ll suggest something on the menu. Or you can also just ask about smaller portions.
              I often order appetizers instead of an entree; it’s less food and costs less, but it’s still adult food and not just chickie nuggies.

              1. Kali*

                This may be a cultural difference. In the UK, I find the options on the kids menu tend to have more portions of vegetables, and usually you can thent add even more of them on.

                1. acmx*

                  Hardly vegetables for kids’ menus in the US. It’s usually: spaghetti, macaroni & cheese, hot dog, hamburger, chicken nuggets, grilled cheese, quesadilla (so basically Mexican or TexMex grilled cheese).

                  I don’t have kids but this is mostly what I’ve seen on the menus

          4. EventPlannerGal*

            I mean, yeah, sometimes you just have to figure stuff out without being explicitly told. That’s life.

            If anything I think you actually are being explicitly told, in that these menus are specifically called kids menus, i.e. menus for kids. That *is* the explicit directive you’re looking for that these menus are not intended for you, an adult – you’re just choosing to ignore it. Sure, it’s okay to ignore that rule in McDonalds, but there is a lot of general dining etiquette that it’s fine to ignore in McDonalds – most rules do not apply there are you shouldn’t extrapolate from “this is okay in McDonalds” to “this is okay everywhere”. And to figure out which rules are okay to ignore in which locale, again, you can either a) ask or b) figure it out from trial and error. I am not sure what other options you are envisioning so if you could explain that would be helpful?

            1. Kali*

              I appear to have given the impression I asking for advice on how to fix a problem. I wasn’t, I was musing about something I found interesting.

              1. EventPlannerGal*

                I see from your comments below that you’ve chosen to disengage from the conversation. I completely get that, and if you are still reading I hope that you will take this in the constructive spirit that it is intended.

                When you are attempting to elicit discussion on a particular topic (which I think in this case was “situations where knowledge is assumed to be universal or implied”?), you will usually get better results if you do not open with a hyper-specific example. In this thread, your opening line was “Can we talk about kids menus in restaurants?”, which I think quite naturally resulted in the rest of us assuming you wanted to talk about kids menus in restaurants. It actually seems like it wasn’t until several comments in that you yourself decided what you were asking about. You’re much more likely to have the conversations you want to have if you a) know what you want to talk about when opening the discussion and b) don’t centre the entire opening of the discussion on one specific practical example, because that leads people to assume that you are looking to discuss that example.

                Again, I hope that this comes across in the constructive manner that it is intended!

      5. Anon For This*

        As you say, in many (not fast food) restaurants they will say “for kids 12 or under” on the menu as a signal that they don’t appreciate adults ordering it. I feel for you, I have an aunt and uncle that routinely split an entree and sometimes the waiter is clearly a little put out by it. For some reason it seems more acceptable to order an appetizer for your main if you’re not hungry, versus either order a kids meal or loudly announce you will be sharing a plate.

      6. WellRed*

        If the menu says 12 and under, isn’t that clear? If the kids menu is also an entirely separate document, as well, you could ask to see the kids menu. I just wish restaurants would offer a few dishes in smaller portions. Even apps are ginormous.

      7. Not a kid anymore*

        I mean, they do know. It’s the kids menu. That’s what it’s called. It’s for kids. It’s clearly labelled as such. I don’t get why that’s not enough for you to understand that it’s meant for kids?

        1. Kali*

          There’s a difference between “meant for” and “only available to”, and whether that difference matters in a given place isn’t obvious.

          1. Sunflower*

            Just noticed this wasn’t super clear in your initial post but are you talking about reactions you’re receiving in the UK or the US?

            In the US, this is ‘not prohibited but frowned upon/you just don’t do that’ territory. Meaning if you explicitly ask your server/the restaurant, they aren’t going to say no but they are going to be pissed. I’ll put this bluntly as it seems the vagueness is what’s causing the confusion- servers and restaurants in the US are never really OK with you ordering your meal off the kids menu even if we say it’s fine. If you’re getting the vibe that the server is saying it’s ok but getting the feeling it isn’t, that reaction is correct. Most restaurants won’t prohibit it (I could see a casual dining room chain like Applebees saying no) because it’s not worth pissing someone off over $10 lower check but if everyone did it, the restaurant would be losing money.

            McDonald’s calling them kids meals should really be called mini meals.

            1. Kali*

              It surprises me that it wasn’t clear, because I mentioned that I’m British and so it’s not about the tip. Why would I be talking about the US? I’m not trying to criticise you personally – though I realise it’s probably coming across that way – but it’s really interesting that your brain did that. The only reason I can see is the assumption that most posters on the internet are American, but I said I wasn’t, and yet the idea that I might be talking about America was still there? Maybe you know lots of people from the UK who’ve moved to the US and expressed surprise over differences in dining culture, or maybe you’re pretty sure this is about the tip so it’s probably about the US? I think the concept of a kids meal did originate in the US – if I recall correctly, I think it was to do with prohibition and getting people into bars for something other than alcohol – so maybe that’s what you had in mind?

              Apparently, what is now a Happy Meal – the classic hamburger and fries option – was the original meal size at McDonalds and then they just kept adding on bigger sizes over the years. So I’d only disagree with the “mini” there!

              1. legalchef*

                Perhaps you’d be better off asking your question somewhere where the majority isn’t American then. You shouldn’t be surprised to get answers from an American perspective when you are posting somewhere where the majority of the readership is American.

              2. Sunflower*

                I assumed you were talking about America because you did say you were British but remarked on the portion size being too large which is generally regarded as a US issue so I assumed you were a Brit in America. On this blog, most commenters are American and the advice is usually default to American.

                You missed the point above- I never said it was about the tip, it’s about restaurants losing money. This is a global thing. Restaurants operate on a very small margin and there is an opportunity cost to people taking up seats and not ordering a full meal.

                Kids meals exist in restaurant because they need adults to come in and adults have kids they need to feed. The idea of them existing in bars during prohibition has nothing to do with why they exist now. They need to be affordable to entice the parents to come in. They are only there with the thought that like 1% of all meals will be kids because kids under 12 are not the target clientele for restaurants. There really isn’t anything more to kids meals but this (FWIW I have a degree in hospitality management and there’s literally no other reason for kids meals to be on the menu except the above)

              3. Courageous cat*

                You’re ruminating on all aspects of this to an intense extent. This site is US-based, many of us are from the US. I don’t think it needs a paragraph of analyzation as to one person’s thoughts.

                I get the feeling you’re feeling defensive about this whole situation irl and maybe that’s what’s factoring in, but ultimately, it should be a simple concept: some restaurants are cool with it, some aren’t, and there’s no harm in asking and having them tell you no. None at all.

            2. Kali*

              I’ve been thinking about this, and I think I’ve identified the underlying idea here that’s fascinating me. You’re right, the actual example of kid’s menus is trivial. But, the underlying issue of what we perceive about what other people know or don’t know is quite interesting, and that’s also why I got interested in why you still thought I might be talking about America.

              My perception is, that there is ambiguity which causes me to unintentionally act in a way that causes inconvenience to those people who could easily fix that ambiguity. So, to me, those people taking action to fix the ambiguity before it inconveniences them seems like a really obvious solution. But, quite often, people don’t realise that what they’ve taken to be an obvious, unspoken rule which is known to everyone ISN’T actually. So they interpret other people’s actions as understanding the rule but breaking it, and don’t stop to think about the possibility the other person doesn’t know that rule.

              In this case, I think the unspoken rule is something like “adults don’t order from children’s menus”, but, in other cases, it can be things like “love is expressed verbally” (i.e., the 5 love languages concept), or “If I want something, I will ask and deal with it if the other person says no” vs “I should take care to anticipate the needs of others. If I don’t and they have to explicitly ask for what they needed, I have dropped the ball and been inconsiderate. Because other people also follow these rules, someone will only ask me for something they really need, and so I should avoid saying no and compounding my earlier inconsiderateness” (i.e., Ask vs Guess – I’m Ask, which is why I needed more words to explain what I think someone who is Guess thinks). Or it might be a Geek Social Fallacy, like “Ostracisers are evil”, e.g., excluding someone from a friend group is one of the worst things you can do, so you should avoid doing that no matter how badly that person acts towards you. Those examples are all googleable, which is why I included the titles. I didn’t include links because I didn’t want this comment to get stuck in the mod queue.

              The other thing people do is to assume that their experiences are universal human experiences unless explicitly told otherwise. I think this is what I did with the assumption that adults ordering from kid’s menus is widespread, and you did in assuming I might be talking about American restaurants even after seeing a reason to think I wasn’t (“I’m British so it’s not about tips”). This is also one of the things we talk about when we talk about privilege, especially when people dismiss the experiences of others with things like “but everyone suffers!”. They assume that everyone’s day to day life is basically the same, except for the explicit thing being discussed, and don’t realise all the tiny differences, like, e.g., a constant difference in how people look at you or talk to you, or make assumptions about you, which people are trying to illustrate with broad examples. They think the experience of, e.g., racism, is limited *only* to the broad, unambiguous examples, and don’t realise that their day-to-day lives are fundamentally different because human brains just aren’t built that way.

              1. Kali*

                I have another example of a time I forgot to mention I was British, because it seems so obvious to me that I forget to say it. I entered uni as a mature student, and worked as a student ambassador. By my third year, I was promoted to senior ambassador and, together with the other seniors, needed to help organise social events. Because I’m 30 and an introvert, I wasn’t a big fan of the “let’s all get drunk” events – which was ALL of them, all 5 of the ones traditionally held throughout the year – and I knew that some of the other ambassadors were also introverts and/or didn’t drink for various reasons, some of which were obvious (and protected statuses) like religion. I was met with a shocking amount of resistance when I suggested doing something more inclusive for at least one of the events. I brought this up in the comments of these weekly posts last year BUT I forgot about the difference in drinking ages between the US and the UK. In the UK, the drinking age is 18 and so the vast majority of those attending uni are legally allowed to drink. I don’t know exactly what differences this causes, because I’ve never attended a US university, but, this does mean that we have pubs on campus, and it is very normal for university students to drink, especially in their first year, when they’re away from home, with people their own age, and still new to being allowed to go out drinking. It’s a very, very normal part of our culture. It’s so normal that I completely forgot to mention that I’m British, and, iirc, most of the comments I got were along the lines of “omg, you need to report this underage drinking problem!”.

                We have all kinds of assumptions about what is normal that we never question unless we suddenly find ourselves in an out-group on whatever scale, being explicitly told that other people have different assumptions. By outgroups, I mean like being not-American on the internet, or being mixed race in Britain. I’ve learned that my experiences as an outgroup in those contexts differ from the experiences of people who are American on the internet, or who are white in Britain. As far as I can tell, the people who are ingroups in those contexts don’t develop that same awareness of difference, certainly not to the same degree. That’s why I’m struggling to think of an example of me being ingroup and gaining an understanding about an outgroup member. The only one that comes to mind is a uni friend of mine who is American. American TV is so ubiquitous that Americans don’t seem like an outgroup even in the UK, although an American-expat living in the UK would probably disagree. Anyway, the other day she was registering for a GP and noticed that GP clinics are called ‘surgeries’ and wanted to know what we call the room where we have surgical operations. It’s an operating theatre. I didn’t realise that term wasn’t universal until she pointed it out because it had never come up before.

                1. Thankful for AAM*

                  It sounds like you approach everything you know as a sort of “normal” and everything you dont know as something others should know you don’t know. What you are describing is, to me, well, just life. There is no manual. You do a thing, you notice others’ reactions to you doing the thing, you learn and you decide your reaction. Rinse and repeat. For example, for me, you are giving too much bandwidth to the kids menu thing and then in explaining that its not too much bandwidth. I’d not enjoy those kind of conversations so I’d react by avoiding having them with you. You notice and find someone else to have them with. Or if we are coworkers, ideally we’d both adjust and be patient with our different styles. Thats how we move through life. There are many enjoyable posts on the interwebs that start, “I was today days old when I learned . . . ” cool thing everyone else seems to know. Its how life is.

                  I feel like you are surprised we did not know you are not in the US. You are sort of approaching us in the same way you are complaining waiters approach you. You did not know kids menus are for kids, “no one told me!” you said, “how could I know and they are not clear when I ask.” I thought you were from the US because you did not tell us, and when someone asked, you seemed surprised that we did not know. For what its worth, I’ve noticed and admired the way so many AAM commenters can simply and clearly address all the relevant info into fairly short posts. You could observe that as a model.

                3. Kali*

                  @Thankful for AAM:

                  You’ve written your comment as if I have a problem that I’ve asked for advice on how to fix. I understand I’ve managed to give a lot of people that impression, but that was never my intention.

                  You’ve repeated the point I made as if it’s advice you’re giving me that you expect me not to have realised, rather than literally the points I just made myself. You also claim I gave no indication I was British. It’s written in my first comment, and I mentioned that fact when I discussed it in the comments you’ve replied to.

                  You say you don’t want to have a discussion about how people think and how societies work. That’s absolutely fine. I don’t want to have a discussion where my own points are repeated back to me as life advice for a problem I don’t have. I find it patronising and frustrating. Let’s not have that conversation. There are hundreds of other comments, I’m sure you can find one you prefer.

                  @anonnie, honestly, I’m not sure. It might be that it is, and I’m remembering that experience as more frustrating than it was because everything around that job was incredibly frustrating, or I may have been recalling one of the other times I raised it.

                  I understand you think I’m devoting too much effort to this. I disagree – I’m literally just musing out loud about something I find interesting during a break from working on an assignment. You don’t have to do it with me. It’s not a problem I’m having, I don’t need advice on fixing it. I get that you’re probably coming from a place of trying to help, but it’s not needed, please spend your time on a conversation you would prefer.

                4. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  One thing I ask here is that people not post things they don’t want input on; if you post here, people are going to respond with their own thoughts because that’s the whole idea of these open threads. So I’d rather you not shut people down when they do (although you’re of course welcome not to engage with the comments that aren’t speaking to what you’re interested in). Thank you!

                5. Kali*

                  Sorry Alison; I wasn’t trying to prevent input, but I DO want to correct the false impression I gave, that I was asking for *advice*. Both commenters expressed frustration but seemed to feel obligate to offer assistance for a problem. That path only leads to more frustration for everyone.

                  Tbh, I feel satisfied with the realisation I had about the thing I wanted to discuss, and I think any new replies – if there are any after this – will probably continue to insist that I have a problem I don’t have and they must fix me while being irritated with me. Rather than just thinking “oh, this is a discussion I won’t enjoy, let’s not have it”. So I’m not going to check back. It’s a discussion I won’t enjoy, so I’m not going to have.

              2. Courageous cat*

                Can we please not compare the concept of you being assumed to be in America on a site that’s based in America to actual racism? This is a really outsize reaction and such a comparison is going to be offensive to people.

                1. Kali*

                  I compared it to my own experiences of living as a woman of colour. If anyone is upset that I found a similarity between my own iutgrouo experiences, that is really a them-problem.

                3. Kali*

                  I really shouldn’t reply on my phone!

                  I felt it was very important to add that I wasn’t talking about racism, I was talking about being a member of a minority in specific contexts. Very often, the expeirence of being a racial minority is also an experience of racism, but they are not identical. They correlate a lot, that venn diagram is *almost* a circle, but it’s not a complete one.

      9. tiny cactus*

        Mystifyingly, restaurants tend to assume that everyone always wants a massive portion, so it may not have occurred to them that an adult would voluntarily choose a smaller amount. Back when I still went to restaurants, my system was to always order something that I could save half of for the next day, but that doesn’t really help if you’re also looking to pay less.

        1. allathian*

          Yes, most restaurants will absolutely be happy to provide a smaller portion, as long as you’re willing to pay for a full meal. The culture of enormous meals in restaurants is also slowly changing, for health reasons. Here, restaurants get scored on how much food they waste, so there’s an incentive to providing smaller meals for customers who ask for it. One of the sit-down restaurants my husband and I most often frequented had the option on the menu for getting starter-sized main dishes for a slightly lower price.

          That said, I don’t think the American fashion of one meal being enough fo feed a family ever caught on in Europe as much as it has in the US.

    3. Pennyworth*

      I’d just ask if they are OK with you ordering from the kids menu or would they rather you just ordered an appetiser. That way you are signalling that you are not planning to spend a lot.

    4. Laura H.*

      I’m in camp ask.

      My favorite local restaurant serves a kids menu with a small up charge ($2 more)for 13 and older orders. I’ve done that numerous times when I want tamales, but 3 feels like a lot to eat with the rice and beans. They also have some items a la carte, so I could order one enchilada with an order of rice.

      Most of the time, I am of the stomach to order from the regular menu. But for days when I just want a little something, it’s nice to have those options.

    5. Grapey*

      Interesting, in US most places say “For kids 12 and under” so much that it became an assumption even when it’s not printed, but I’d still feel weird ordering off something called a “kid’s menu” in person.

      I’ve seen “lunch menus” that imply smaller portions, but the standard is to just have leftovers if the meal is too big.

      I have totally ordered off the kids menu for home delivery though!

    6. Jackalope*

      This is a tangent, but that’s one of the things I like about take-out. If I’m getting take-out, we can totally order something like 2 adult meals and 1 kids meal for the housemate who just isn’t that hungry, and they’ll never know the difference. Especially right now when we often send 1 person to pick things up, they have no way of knowing that the kids meal isn’t for an actual kid.

    7. fhqwhgads*

      I’ve never seen a place that wanted to restrict to actual children and didn’t have the “under 12” (or whatever age) printed on the menu. You’re not expected to know the “behind the scenes”; you’re just expected to take the statement at face value. That’s how you’re expected to know.

      1. Pocket Mouse*

        Even without an age specified, I take what I see at face value and assume a kids menu is for kids. I’m not a kid, so the kids menu isn’t for me.

        That said, I agree with others that you can always ask if it’s okay for you to order off the kids menu and you’ll get a clear answer.

    8. Not A Manager*

      I assume that at any restaurant where you order at the counter and pick up your food, you can order anything that you want. (My only exception is when I order a kiddie cone of ice cream. I ask then as well, even though it’s counter service.)

      Any restaurant where I have to sit down to eat, I ask whether I can order off the kids menu. I also tend to tip as if I’d ordered the adult version. I don’t know the tipping customs in the U.K., but in the U.S. you can really stiff the waitstaff if you get the discounted price and then tip a percent of the bill.

      1. Dan*

        TBH, I just tip the percentage of the bill for what I order and forget the rest. I’m not a “kids menu” person, but sometimes I order alcohol, and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I order appetizers and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I order an extra side, and sometimes I don’t. Dinner last night was $18 before tax and tip. My half of dinner the week before when I went out was almost $100 before tax and tip. When I eat at cheaper places and order/spend less than I might on nights when I “go out”, I don’t tip extra.

      2. Kali*

        In the UK, waitstaff are paid the same as any other job, so tips are nice to have but nothing like as big a deal as in the US. You would normally base the tip off the price of the dish, but 5-10% is normal to generous, and I really can’t imagine anyone caring how much your dish cost in terms of the difference it makes to their tip.

    9. RagingADHD*

      You don’t have to try to guess/figure out anything. Just ask.
      “Are kids’s meals available to anyone, or is there an age restriction?”

    10. Sunflower*

      This is a US culture thing and has to do with our tipping/serve pay structure. In most restaurants, the kids menu has totally different(and usually much cheaper) items than the adult menu whereas in fast food, it’s the same food just a smaller portion. Kids menus in restaurants are developed pretty much just to give the kid something to eat while the parents ring up the big dollar dishes. Sitting at a restaurant, there’s also a much bigger focus on the amount of the check as the establishment and server could make a very significant differing amount based on what is ordered in the same amount of time. Fast food is grab and go so the check doesn’t have an impact on server or establishment income the way sitting a table at a restaurant is.

      This is all very much part of US culture and has to do with how our tipping system works- the servers make a percent of the check so it’s possible to make a big variant of $$ for doing the same amount of work. Upselling is a huge part of server work. I grew up in the Northeast and have worked in restaurants and it’s regarded as rude to sit at a table for a long time when you’re no longer ordering anything or you’re expected to leave a bigger tip to make up for it.

      US has massive portions in anything except fine-dining. Living here forever, I usually eat half my meal and plan to take the other home for later.

    11. RagingADHD*

      Having read your followup comments, for someone who claims to operate from an “Ask” mindset, you seem to have a very difficult time stating directly what you’re looking for.

      Your first post stated right up front that it was about kids’ menus and contained several different versions of the question, “How was I to know?”

      Then you returned to say it wasn’t really about kid’s menus but about communication, and continued with several versions of the question, “how do people know things at all?”

      Then you complained because people are trying to fix a problem you say you don’t have, and not engaging in the discussion you actually wanted.

      If you don’t know or can’t articulate what you actually want, you can hardly expect anyone else to psychically discover it.

    12. Morning reader*

      I suggest looking for “senior menu” or asking if there is a senior discount on the regular menu. This is more likely to be smaller portions of adult meals. The only reason I can see to order from a kids menu is if they offer something otherwise unavailable. Like a pb&j or a hot dog.
      You are more likely to be in the correct perceived age range for senior menus than kids menus. If you’re not old enough yet, wait. I started ordering senior items in my 40s. They don’t question it particularly if you’re with some other older people.
      I think senior items are less likely to be a loss than kids menus. They are trying to attract older adults and it’s just smaller servings of the same things, not totally different food.
      No advice on the larger question of how to tell. You just… notice? Why a steak restaurant will offer a kids hot dog is different from why fast food offers a junior burger. They are not trying to become known for their hot dogs but steak eating parents need to feed kids with them, and they want the steak eating parents. Fast food place just wants to sell more of whatever, they don’t care who eats it. Steak place obviously not thrilled if you take up a table to eat a hot dog.

  19. Puppy!*

    Update: Less excercise! More Training! Thank you everyone. She is the star of the zoom puppy class. Sits, down stays, come, touch. Working on wait.
    Reminder, she is in her 4th month.
    she sleeps in a pen.
    Question: Crate training. I’ve watched the videos, I have read books, articles etc. Puppy class!
    No one says how long this should take BUT NEVER FORCE THE PUPPY!
    An estimate- days, weeks?
    How many times a day should she be “playing” in the crate- she eats 2 meals and at least 2 kongs.
    The trainer says put her in when she is tired.- if she is sleeping she wakes right up and plays “bang on the door, let me out!”
    Do I just Ferberize?

    1. CoffeeforLife*

      I’ve never crate trained puppies but I do with adult foster dogs. Some of them dislike it and whine the first few nights, and we just prepare for a rough sleep (we keep the crate in our bedroom so I can hear if anything goes really wrong).
      So..yeah. ferberize. Ignore. Don’t reinforce that banging = getting out.
      My forever dog sleeps in her crate (she gets a treat to go in) but NEVER goes in voluntarily..she does not consider it her den.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I am not a super fan of crates. With my current dog, he could not hack the crate at all. I have never seen anything like this, his level of upset was heart attack level. And he was only a pup. I truly feared my pup would die from being so very upset. I mentioned it to the vet and the vet said he had heard the same thing from other people who had gotten their dog from the same place.

      I gave up with the crate. While he was cutting teeth and still had destructive puppy tendencies I gave him a cardboard box on its side. I just replaced the box as he grew or as he ate it. (He actually did not eat them that much.) I gated him in the kitchen where there aren’t any rugs to pee on if I could not watch him.

      Once he got so he did not chew on everything in sight, I bought dog beds for him. (I had been giving him old blankets that were not a big deal if he destroyed them.) One bed I keep at the foot of my own bed and one I keep in the living room which is a central spot for this house. This is a dog that is very stubborn and very willful (husky mix). He loooves his beds and I have no problem telling my stubborn dog to go to bed at night or getting him to settle on his bed if we have company. Matter of fact, he is sleeping on his living room bed right now.

      I don’t believe crates are suitable for every dog. I get the theory behind the idea but you can create other areas that he associates with rest/sleep and he will use them regularly.
      We can choose to let our dogs show us things. I hope you get a chuckle. I was keeping an old blanket in the kitchen for him. As soon as I took the gate down in the morning, he would grab his blanket and drag it through the house. He always landed in the same spot with his blanket in front of the recliner in the living room. Just to see what this was, I grabbed his blanket and brought it back out to the kitchen. Yep, he followed me and dragged the blanket back to the living room. He had to walk backwards each time to successfully get the blanket through the doorways.
      Yeah, his dog bed is in front of the recliner even now, 12 years later. He is twelve years old and he still wants his bed in front of the recliner.
      In exchange for “tolerating” his preference here, I get a happy, content dog. While it’s not ideal having a dog bed in front of the recliner, it’s also not hurting anything either. This was a pup that had a very hard time settling down. I think he showed me one of many helpful solutions to his ansty-ness. I don’t understand the recliner thing, but I do see that he is content.
      If we watch, our pets can show us things.

    3. Missouri Girl in Louisiana*

      There is an excellent training video out called “Crate Games”. I train and show my dogs in agility and obedience and love this video a lot. I think you can buy it from Clean Run or J&J Dog Supplies (also 2 really good places for quality dog gear-and no, not affiliated with either company; I’m very picky about collars, leashes, and other training equipment).

    4. Beans are green*

      Our first dog (gotten at 8 weeks) screamed bloody murder in her crate. But she couldn’t be trusted alone in the house, so we persevered. We realized that if she could hear us, she would whimper and cry- but once she thought we’d left, she’d settle down. So…ferberization. By 6 months she would go into her crate and stay quiet until released.

      Ironically, I’d say both of our dogs finally adjusted to their crates around 6 months, just as they became trustworthy to be in the house but out of sight while we’re home. We still crate our 2 year old when we’re both gone, though. When anxious, she eats things like socks, so she can’t be unsupervised,

    5. Me*

      Our amazing trainer showed us how to make the dog love his kennel.

      With the door open, walk over and start being happy about the kennel (he has us do this for any object, basically just start talking in a happy tone about the item).

      If the dog touches the kennel with any part of his body- like his nose or a paw, reward with a treat and a “yes”. This clues the dog into “oh, I’ve done something to earn a treat. How do I earn another?”

      It usually takes my dog ~10 minutes of that to grasp the new skill. In this case you’d be looking for increased body contact with the kennel. So a nose would earn the first treat, putting a head in would earn another and a walk in would get a party o’ treats. Keep talking about the kennel as they figure out how to earn another one- nonsense stuff like oh the kennel, it’s right there, what do you need to do here pup, hmmm, I think you could do it, yeah let’s see what you can do with this kennel. The talking keeps them actively engaged while they try to figure out how to earn another treat. (We chose string cheese as a training treat- he loves it- soft and easy to eat during training and easy to carry/break into small pieces).

      It won’t be a fast thing but with a week or two of this, your dog should learn to love his kennel.

      If we are in a hurry we can now say “kennel” and he will run to it and wait for a treat. The treat goes in the kennel and the door is shut. He’s 18 months so he can spend a few hours in there if needed. We don’t always give him a treat to get him in. He likes to sleep in there some nights and he doesn’t need to be lured with a treat. He just has positive views of it. Like anything we’ve done, he learned via treats but it’s reinforced with only occasional ones to keep him guessing.

      We don’t reward door bangs or whines. He doesn’t make those noises much because he knows it doesn’t get him out. It’s fine for him to whine once to let us know he’s in there but we don’t immediately respond, giving it a minute or two of silence before letting him out. Puppies at 4 months wouldn’t spend much time in there. Definitely use for naps.

      I’m getting our next puppy in two weeks and will start him like I did with our current dog- on the half shell. Kennel bottom (sans top) becomes the bed from day/hour 1. After a week or so, the top goes on without the door. At some point the door goes on but isn’t closed. This remains the bed. I think it’ll be pretty easy because older pup will model good behavior :)

      1. Puppy!*

        I love this. She started on the bottom. And now runs in to get her dinner or kong. I will play the happy game with her.

  20. sswj*

    She should be WELL used to it now and it’s not a frightening place to be. Now it’s time for her to learn patience there, and if you’d rather her stay in the crate than the pen make that where she sleeps. Put her in it with a toy or a kong or something and then close the door and preferably go away for a couple of hours if you don’t think you can ignore her banging to get out when she’s done with her toys. While you don’t want to force her to GO in, you can increase the time she stays there. She doesn’t get to make the rules, and you need begin to see the difference between her frustration at not doing what she wants *right now!!!!* and real discomfort/distress (gotta pee!). They need to learn to deal with frustration, and the only way they learn that is to be frustrated. It takes willpower on your part, but it’s doable.

    Questions:
    -Is there a reason you want to use the crate over the pen? If she’s happy in the pen can you just use that?
    -If your aim is to transition to crate only, can you set the pen up as a patio of sorts in front of the crate? She’s still contained, – the pen is attached to the crate on either side of the door so it’s all one space. Then gradually shrink the pen space so that there’s a whole lot more crate than pen, and eventually just crate.
    Keep at it. At 4 months she should be getting a bit more of an attention span, be able to hold her bladder pretty well, and it sounds like she’s learning lots.

    She (and you!) can do this!

    2. Puppy!*

      Thank you for this advice. I want to crate train so that she will have a safe place to be when I am out of the house.

  21. Just a PM*

    Does anyone have any cookie recipes that will keep for about a week before being eaten? I am making a gift card basket for my grandpa for Christmas and want to pit some homemade cookies in it so it’s more than just a pack of gift cards. I’ll be sending it to him on the 19th. I’ve sent him cookies before (so I know most of the tricks to keep them fresh – layer with parchment, use a bread slice, keep covered, etc) but never a week in advance.

    Right now I am thinking about peppermint bark, rum balls, or some good old’ chocolate chip but am open to other ideas! Especially if anyone has tried-and-proven recipes.

    1. Union Maid*

      gingerbread people? I have just made a lot from Fannie Farmer (with molasses and no egg) = they are quite hard. as I recall from childhood they keep well. this is my practice batch – I have narrowed down the cutters (not used for a decade or more) which work well. I will be using coloured icing in tubes and assess that too. Then, there will be another batch which will go in the post.

      I am pretty impressed so far with shape definition, and how they are keeping together as they come off the sheet, after baking.

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      Rum balls, Pfeffernusse, gingerbread, and biscotti all hold up well. Rum balls and Pfeffernusse are actually better a week later if you can stop yourself from eating them all at once, and they ship well without breaking.

    3. Teapot Translator*

      Biscottis last a long time in my experience, but the recipe I use has no butter in it and I use a KitchenAid stand mixer. I’ll post the link to the recipe in a follow-up comment.

    5. Oxford Comma*

      Rum balls will definitely last. I keep mine in the fridge. Also a lot of cookies freeze really well. I use a plastic container and just make sure it’s well sealed.

    7. pancakes*

      There’s a post on Eater titled “The Best Ways to Send Holiday Cookies in the Mail.” It has some good tips about packing them.

    8. Unicornucopia*

      My family makes these cookies that are just peanut butter crackers covered in chocolate (I’m sure someone has a name for them but we don’t) and they last for quite a while. You can make them a little fancier and drizzle white chocolate on top or add sprinkles etc. but they’re delicious and very easy to make. We make them all through December to give as gifts and we tend to keep them in the freezer but they’re also just fine in an airtight tin.

    9. Dancing Otter*

      Springerle. My grandmother’s recipe calls for drying out the rolled dough overnight before baking. They come out of the oven rock hard (great teething biscuits if junior likes the taste of anise), and take a few days to soften up to eating texture. They should work well for your purpose, and they look like a lot more work than they really are.
      Date nut balls with brandy. We always made them the day after Thanksgiving so they would have time to “season” before Christmas. Dates, pecans and Nilla wafers forced through the meat grinder, moistened with corn syrup and brandy, formed into ~1” balls and rolled in decorating sugar: no cooking. They really are better after at least a week, when the flavors have had time to blend well.

    10. Morningstar*

      I also always tell the recipients of food gifts to go ahead & open their gift early/upon receiving it as it’s perishable.

    11. SpellingBee*

      Chocolate shortbread is one of my go-to cookies for gift giving – they stay fresh for quite a long time if you keep them in an airtight container. I use Maida Heatter’s recipe, which is excellent and easy. I can write it out if anyone is interested, or you can probably find it online somewhere.

    12. HannahS*

      Shortbread cookies keep incredibly well. The trouble is that they’re kind of fragile for mailing.

    13. Girasol*

      You could go with the historic Anzac biscuit. Australian and New Zealander mothers sent them to their boys fighting in Africa and Europe in WWII. The boys dipped them in tea because they’re hard as rocks plain. They’re said to last for ages though, so they’d be good no matter how long they’d been in the mail. I love them just for the story. For just a week, though, these chewy molasses oatmeal cookies always get raves and they’ll ship well and last. They’re yummy with walnuts but if you happen to have hickory nuts or black walnuts they’re to die for.
      https://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/old-fashioned-oatmeal-raisin-cookies/5fc2dae2-73b3-4440-957f-f409ecdff3fa

  22. aninum*

    I live in the US and have distant family in India I would like to give a wedding present – the closest in ease/flexibility to cash the better. Any ideas on something easy for me to buy in the US that is useful in India?

    1. aarti*

      Hi! I live in India and have family in the US. They’ve bought me gift cards from Amazon India, that are super useful if that is a service your family in India uses. You have to buy the gift card from the India version of the site, not the American one, but you can use your same Amazon account

        1. aarti*

          Not in the same way as the US but people will use it more occasionally to buy things. I think with COVID gift cards have become a super common wedding gift since people aren’t giving cash at the ceremony

    2. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      If you just want to send cash, TransferWise is pretty easy and has lower fees than a bank. I’ve used to to send money from the US to other countries.

  23. Richard Hershberger*

    What I Learned Last Week: The house in London where George Frederick Handel (the “Messiah” guy) lived is now a museum. OK, that’s unsurprising. But it turns out that Jimi Hendrix lived in the adjacent house. So they did the sensible thing and have a double, single-admission museum for both. Bravo!

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        I don’t know. My local classical music station mentioned it before playing some Handel. That’s all I know. But it clearly is a must-see if visiting London.

    3. Jean (just Jean)*

      That is amazing and wonderful. People (Handel, Hendrix, and the museum folks) can be so creative!
      I’m going to look at their online store because I would love to see a t-shirt with both musicians’ faces.
      Maybe somebody can adapt each person’s music in the other’s style.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        It also puts the lie to the image of the stodgy classical music lover. Those guys exist, but there aren’t as many as the popular imagination would have it, and even fewer are actual musicians.

    4. pancakes*

      I saw that circulating on Twitter around Hendrix’s birthday, which is in late November. The museum has an account, @handelhendrix

    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’ll add it to myou “unexpected musicians” tour…along with Muzio Clemente’s tomb in Westminster Abbey. Vivian Lee is in London too.

  24. Lcsa99*

    So a while back we asked about how to get some home help for my mother, and we were able to get her approved for less than 4 hours free a week. Unfortunately she has too much pain to stand long enough to cook for herself and can’t get in and out of the tub without help so we’ve been paying the woman under the table to come pretty much every day. So with the holidays coming, I am assuming we should give her some sort of a bonus as a thank you, but I have no idea where to start. How do I calculate that? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    1. Grim*

      I’d say paying her under the table saves her money, so that could be considered her bonus.
      But if that is hard to discuss, give her two days pay as a bonus. We hired a professional caregiver through a service that charged $25 per hour, so this would come out to a $200 bonus.

      1. Morningstar*

        It doesn’t save her money because, for example, she has to pay her own taxes, unemployment insurance, etc — or hide her income which means she’ll qualify for less social security or disability benefits later in life.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      If it’s her first year, you can consider increasing it in upcoming years. I am not sure what amount would be comfortably doable in your setting. However, I suggest you settle on a figure that is comfortable to repeat again next year. I think consistency is good. It’s better to give $50 each year that she could count on than to give her $200 this year and nothing next year.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I wanted to add, don’t forget that stuff around the house which is no longer being used MIGHT be useful to her. So through out the year you could offer her first refusal on good, working items that are no longer needed. This can be anything from a handbag or coat up to a spare tv that no one uses.
        If you plan something like this, it may also help you arrive at an amount for the holiday bonus.

        1. Lcsa99*

          Unfortunately I live on the other side of the country and my mother is renting so I don’t know what is hers and what belongs to the landlord in order to offer something like that.

          As for the amount, we were thing the equivalent of half, or a week’s worth of pay but I don’t know if that’s too much. Is something like $50-$100 closer to the average for this kind of thing?

    4. Not A Manager*

      How long has she been with you, and how long do you hope this relationship will continue? If you like her and if your mother likes her – if she’s timely, reliable, honest, kind, and sensible – then I would absolutely give her as large a bonus as is reasonable and affordable. It’s super hard to get good elder care from a distance (ask me how I know), so if you have someone be sure that they feel valued.

      If she’d been working for me for close to half a year or more, I would give one week bonus for sure and I would round up to the nearest fifty. If she’d been working for less than that, I would give whatever is in the ballpark of one week but round down to the nearest “gift sized” amount.

      I would ALSO give a small physical gift that is as personal as possible. Wrap the gift, write a heartfelt card, and put the check into the card.

      1. Lcsa99*

        Thanks everyone! We’re glad we were in the right ballpark with the weeks+ pay. We’ll do that and a tin of cookies and a nice card.

  25. Please Exit Through The Rear Door*

    I bought a new laptop with Windows 10 recently and am struggling to understand OneDrive. I transferred my old computer’s files from a USB drive and forgot to deactivate OneDrive first — I want my files saved to the local computer, not the cloud. I only remembered to change the setting to save to my local computer after I reached OneDrive’s free 5 GB limit (which happened quickly, as many of my old files were photos).

    I want to empty the OneDrive so I stop getting the warnings about it being full. If I delete the files in OneDrive, will they delete from the computer entirely? I tried to Google but couldn’t understand all the tech speak and I am not sure how they are connected. Thanks in advance.

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      Yes, that should do the trick. Don’t forget to empty the recycle bin located in OneDrive.

    2. curly sue*

      Yes, I believe they will delete from the computer as well. You want to be sure to copy them to a hard drive before deleting anything.

    3. My Brain Is Exploding*

      You have my sympathies! We had a similar problem with a computer once and finally one day one of our offspring was here and…fixed it. :)

    4. Laura H.*

      Do you still have the USB drive, or some similar physical storage media you can transfer the files back onto, do the One Drive clearing and deactivation/ nope don’t want to use, and then put your files back on your local system?

      Yes it’s time consuming, but I think it worth attempting if you can.

      1. Please Exit Through The Rear Door*

        Thanks, that’s what I’m going to try to do. And thanks to everyone for their comments.

        Unfortunately, I tried to delete the files off OneDrive and got a message that they couldn’t be deleted… because they are waiting to sync to OneDrive. Even though I thought I set the computer’s default to not save to OneDrive. On the face of it, it seems that the only way to get out of this loop of futility is to pay an extortionate annual rate to upgrade OneDrive.

        I’ve never liked Macs, but Microsoft has become pure evil.

        1. Not Australian*

          It’s probably too late in this particular case, but I’ve been using Linux for ~10 years now and it’s no more complicated than any other software, plus it’s free. It’s almost impossible to buy new equipment that doesn’t have Microsoft already installed (we buy good reconditioned hardware) but it should be straightforward enough to strip it out and install Linux instead.

        2. Cary*

          “Even though I thought I set the computer’s default to not save to OneDrive.”

          Your previous comment makes it sound like you set that *after* you’d already told the computer to put *these* files *on* OneDrive (by forgetting to turn it off). That’s why the change wouldn’t apply to these files.

          If they’re still waiting to sync, then they’re not actually on OneDrive yet (but the computer still thinks it’s supposed to put them there). You have to “Unlink This PC” and then they should never sync and it also defaults to leaving them on your PC.

          More specifically:

          In the OneDrive menu that you get to by right-clicking on OneDrive, you may have already gone to Settings and unchecked the option “Start OneDrive automatically when I sign into Windows.”

          You also need to go to the Account tab and click “Unlink this PC.” It then asks you to confirm. It says something like “OneDrive will stop syncing and a copy of these files will be left on this computer”–which I think is what you want? So then click “Unlink account.”

          HTH!

          2. Please Exit Through the Rear Door*

            Problem solved, in literally two seconds. Such a simple fix! Thank you again!

            (My opinion of Microsoft is still zero. My workplace has forced OneDrive and Teams on us, and to put it mildly, they are crappy products. There also was the creepy article Alison posted earlier this week about Microsoft’s productivity reports. But that’s a problem for another day.)

  26. Hotdog not dog*

    So this is my big cookie baking weekend! We (well, mostly my son and husband) decided, “Damn the pandemic, full speed ahead!” What are your favorite holiday or traditional cookies? We like to explore other cultures and traditions, and in the kitchen seems the only safe way to travel the world this year.

    1. Lcsa99*

      Its our cookie weekend too! We’re making six types of cookies and special brownies. Happy baking!

      As for traditional cookies, I think our favorite is Rugelach! Chocolate, which is a little less traditionally but we’re chocolate people. :)

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I’m not sure what your “special brownies” are (though I’m curious :) ) but one of my favorite dessert treats are brownies with dollops of chocolate chip cookie dough dropped on top pre-baking, so they come out as both desserts together :)

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            I’ve tried them with peanut butter cookie dough as well, and it didn’t work *quite* as well as I wanted it to, but I think that was because of the specific dough recipe I used, and a more standard one would probably work better :)

      2. Hotdog not dog*

        Last year I made chocolate rugelach and it was a huge hit! We are big chocolate fans here!

    2. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

      There are so many good ones! Mexican wedding cakes were always a treat for me growing up. Algerian tcharek/tcharak crescents cookies are amazing and a bit more fun and involved in the stuffing and the rolling making for a great family activity (but definitely leave off the icing sugar in my opinion) and while they might not technically be cookies you can’t go wrong with gulab jamin, especially if you find a recipe that lets you take the easy way out and use milk powder. For less common American recipes, something like Joe Froggers/molasses crackles are so much fun to make and a bit more interesting than chocolate chip cookies (not to knock them, they’re my favorites). Also, angel food bars anyone?

        1. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

          Lol, you will not regret asking! They are the most amazing layered bar cookies. It starts with a shortbread-ish base, then you bake on another layer made up of coconut, chopped pecans, sugar, and eggs, then once it’s cool you drizzle on lemon icing. We had them almost every big celebration growing up and I still make them when the whole family gets together. Here’s the Joy of Cooking recipe (replacing the white flour with whole wheat flour gives.a more nutty flavor).https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/pecan-or-angel-slices-360792

          1. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

            I don’t when they changed the name from ‘angel food bars’ to ‘angel slices’.

    3. ThatGirl*

      Our plan this year is pfeffernusse (family tradition I carry on), Italian butter cookies and pinwheels. But I’ve done all kinds in years past, when I could share them more easily.

    4. Grits McGee*

      I make cucidati (Italian fig cookies)- 7 pounds of dried fruit, a quart of nuts, and a whole orange and lemon. :) I have to use my grandfather’s old metal meat grinder to make the filling; it’s so dense, it will absolutely destroy the motor of any food processor or blender.

    5. Llellayena*

      Russian tea cakes (not sure if they’re actually Russian since they’re used in traditional Italian cookie trays…)
      Pignoli cookies
      Shortbread (in many different flavors)
      Anise cookies (very traditionally Italian)

      I have such a strong Italian tradition in the cookies I’ve made that I really don’t know how to make basic American Christmas cookies like sugar cookies or chocolate chip!

    6. LQ*

      My grandma’s orange walnut icebox cookies. They were a shortbread cookie with orange zest and black walnuts from the tree out back. I’ve made them as an adult and actually managed to make them taste as good. It was sort of a miracle because nostalgia cookies are in my experience impossible to replicate. I’m not big on nostalgia but cookies out of the window well are the big thing for me.

      I did it by using really good ingredients, really high-quality butter, flour, and salt, and the best orangiest oranges I could get.

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        I had a colleague whose wife was from Greece and made these for the whole office! She wouldn’t tell anyone the recipe, and none of the recipes I’ve found have been as good as hers.

    8. Natalie*

      When I was growing up our “official” Christmas cookie was speculaas, using the recipe in the James Beard cookbook. My family isn’t Belgian or Dutch, I’m not exactly sure why that’s the recipe my mother settled on. But I like them, I think they’re a little more interesting than sugar cookies but they still roll out and decorate easily.

    9. Buni*

      I tend to stick to:

      1) traditional gingerbread biscuits – a couple of years ago a friend bought me a Christmas-themed set of cutters, so there’s about 12 different shapes – decorated with piped white chocolate, and

      2) ‘stained glass’ biscuits, usually in an orange spice flavour, with cut-outs done in different colours of ‘glass’.

    10. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      It is just the two of us for the holidays so I haven’t baked in many years because well, don’t want to pile on the weight! But this year I got a hankering to do holiday baking (the holiday meals are all mix and match international recipes instead!) both for some home cookies and also to give some in a bag as gifts to friends.

      Growing up we always did chocolate crinkles, mexican wedding cakes, three-colored icebox cookies, and I think molasses cookies (for dad). Oh, and some of those peanut butter and hershey kiss ones. But the big big deal was mom’s sugar cookie cut outs with Grandma’s frosting and colored sugar sprinkles. I have practically nothing from either grandmother, but that recipe has stood the test of time. Looking forward to baking – but probably not until the 17th!

    11. Glass Piano*

      My uncle married a wonderful woman from New Mexico a few years ago who shared her family’s recipe for biscochitos, which are a traditional cookie from NM flavored with anise and cinnamon. They are amazing! Our other family traditions are spritz, pazelles, cocoons (which are a family variation on Italian wedding cookies), these chocolate and vanilla swirls that my mom developed in her twenties (since I’m moving out this summer, I get to learn her secret recipe this year!), and then we’ll usually do a classic like gingerbread or oatmeal. Cookies are a big part of the holiday for us, so we’re not cutting back on the varieties but we are only making one batch each.

    12. Chaordic One*

      My family likes a Pinwheel Cookie made with a basic butter cookie dough, a plain simple sugar cookies that you use can use cookie cutters on and then add sprinkles to. Or frost them after they’re banked or add maybe add sprinkles to them then. They also like povitica bread.

    13. Aurora Leigh*

      Press cookies (with almond flavoring, not vanilla), crybaby cookies (these have coffee and molasses in them as well as raisins, dates, and walnuts) sugar cookies (our recipe has sour cream in the dough), cherry chocolate chip (shortbread base with maraschino cherries, almond extract and dark chocolate chips)

    14. Might Be Spam*

      Our traditional cookies are ice-cream cookies. Mix the ice-cream with flour and butter and roll them out. Put a dollop of jam on top and bake. Sprinkle with powdered sugar.
      I don’t think I can mail them to my son so I am sending him the recipe, since he can’t visit this year.

    15. Generic Name*

      Ginger snaps
      Pfefferneusse
      Chocolate crackle cookies

      All from the Fannie Farmer Baking Book

    16. Girasol*

      Spritz sandwiched together with butter cream. We make four batches with different shapes, colors, and flavors: chocolate mint trees, chocolate coffee whirls, lemon or orange sunbursts, cherry vanilla wreaths.

    17. Dancing Otter*

      Family cookie traditions I don’t make any more: fattigmands, because of the deep frying; rosettes, because I lost the iron and they’re also deep fried. They’re pretty fragile, too. So much for the Norwegian heritage.

      We always had both butter and almond spritz and springerle, which are more properly German, I think, but the recipes came from my Norsk relatives. My springerle roller has been in the family for at least eighty years, and may not have been new then.
      None of our other usual cookies are particularly ethnic, unless shortbread qualifies as English.

  27. Jane Smith*

    Gardening question: I had my back yard paved and have finished painting it. It looks great! A small section of the back was left for me to plant flowers in. It’s always been very clay-ey and weeds loved it but I have grown nice stuff there in the past. Anyway. I removed the weed roots and put lots more soil down and planted bulbs and wild flowers for spring, but the soil is now sodden. I’m very doubtful anything will grow there. It’s just thick mud.
    Can I salvage it? Maybe put a layer of grit over the top and mix it in with the soil to help drain it?
    Any advice please:)

    1. Anon For This*

      Is the paving area now creating runoff into the area you want to plant? You could try rain barrels or other stormwater practices if so. Removing the plants that were there can also cause you to lose soil because it’s roots that hold it in place. Mulch is usually an option to absorb extra water and hold the soil in place while new roots set.

    2. It happens*

      Containers! You can control a container garden’s soil. And you can put them on the clay or the paved part. You can also add a variety of heights and textures- I have low teak boxes that hold the base for my climbing vines, higher teak for a treelet, higher plastic-that-looks-like ceramic containers for bushes, and higher cor-ten steel for attention-grabbing flowers at eye height when seated. Writing it out makes it sound like a lot, but it works for me. Have fun!

    3. SpellingBee*

      I also have clay soil so this is something I’m familiar with! If you just added soil on top of the clay without mixing it in or breaking up the clay bed and the area is now surrounded (or almost surrounded) by paving, what you’ve done is created a big pot. It’s super soggy because the water has nowhere to go. It will eventually soak into the clay below of course, but it will retain water for longer than it should. Unfortunately mixing sand or even organic matter (which would be preferable) into the top layer won’t help, because that’s not where the problem is. Since you just had a lot of work done in the yard, it’s likely that the area was compacted even more than normal by people and equipment going over it, which would exacerbate the issue.

      Your options are pretty limited at this point because you’ve already planted, but I’d try taking an earth fork and carefully pushing it into the clay as far as you can, then rock it back and forth to break into the hard layer. Do this about every six inches or so, or as close as your plantings allow. You may spear a bulb or two – I always do when I dig in a bed where I’ve planted bulbs – but just push it back into the soil and it will probably be okay.

      Good luck!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I have snotty, greasy, clumpy clay all around me here.

      After much debate and reading, I decided to try some Jersey Greensand. Yep, it’s green and looks like sand.
      This is an odd thing, it works to loosen clay soils but it can also build cohesion in sandy soils.
      Healthy soil has worms. There were no worms here. I tried it in a couple beds and wow. Even the first season, I could see the results. Finally a family of parent robins brought their 4 youngsters to forage for food in my garden. The young birds made a racket and attracted my pets’ attention. When I went to the window I found my cats and dog staring out the window at these 4 young ones noisily chirping away and pulling up worms with mom and dad watching closely.

      Very basically, the idea is to put minerals into the soil, which stimulates microbes which in turn feeds earthworms and every body makes the soil in that area better.

      I shopped around because the first bag I found (years ago) was $100 for the bag. I found it locally at a lower price. I don’t think the lower priced ones are as high quality as the expensive ones. But I was happy with the results I had.
      My friend has the sandy soil problem and we used it in her gardens. And the worms came back, they were large running about 6-8 inches long.

      As others were saying, if you cannot get that bed to drain out that will be an issue and probably wise not to put a lot of money into the bed. But maybe there is something else you can do for drainage, so I am just throwing out the greensand idea.

      1. SpellingBee*

        I’ll look into this – thanks for the idea! Always on the hunt for ways to improve my concrete clay soil. Did you dig it in, or just topdress? I can obviously google, but was wondering what method you used since you had a good result.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          The first time I spread it out as a thin coating by hand over the whole area. Then I took my shovel and turned over maybe 1 inch of dirt. My thought was this stuff is not cheap, I don’t want it blowing a way or draining off.

          Subsequent applications the soil was looser so I used the teeth on a bow head rake to scratch it in a little bit- again so it did not blow away/run off.

          The bag does show an application rate, I used less that that because I am frugal.

    5. Wishing You Well*

      I have heavy clay soil. I recommend doing nothing now with muddy clay except maybe a cover layer of organics. Wait until spring to work the soil. Please don’t add grit or sand to clay; in my area, that just makes concrete. Working mud now can make it worse and maybe disturb your bulbs.
      You’d be surprised at what survives over winter.
      Happy Gardening!

      1. Jane Smith*

        Thank you! I am normally quite lucky with plants, considering I am not green fingered, so here is hoping!

      1. pancakes*

        A lot of the gardeners I most respect are very anti-peat moss for sustainability reasons, and there are great alternatives. I’d advise people to read up on this subject before buying.

  28. Photography backdrops*

    Does anyone have a photography backdrop they like? I like the idea of replica surfaces (where you buy fake marble, wood, brick, etc printed boards that you put together at 90 degrees) but they are way too expensive. I use a white sheet or a light box with white walls now but would love being able to swap out the white for wood, brick, other surfaces. (About 18 inches by 18 inches in size)

      1. nep*

        Oops–OK. Just realised that you gave dimensions there. That’s what I was getting at w my question.
        I have been happy with a wide-slat wooden fence in the yard–perfect on overcast but bright days. But when outside’s not an option, I’ve got a big piece of light wood left over from a building project. I’ve been seeking backdrop options also…I’ve got to keep this in mind when out at thrift shops, estate sales, and the like.

      2. OP for this*

        Mostly my 7 pound dog and the clothes I make for her.

        But also food, craft projects, things I make.

        Thanks

    2. CoffeeforLife*

      I’ve had success with scrapbook paper (they have wood look. Brick, etc) you could also get a few planks of vinyl tile glued to a surface and then cut to fit your light box. Try a habitat for Humanity reStore for some cut offs. I’ve also seen marble tiles there. I photograph using a light box and background struggle is real :)

      2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I was going to say, scrapbook paper or maybe patterned contact paper on a piece of plywood, you could do different paper attached to each side.

    3. Anona*

      The replica boards I found on amazon (though I don’t love amazon) were $13 for a double sided vinyl wood (or they also have marble) backdrop (34×15.7). For $40 you can get a pack with a bunch.

    4. Wishing You Well*

      Scrapbook paper is a great suggestion! I get multiple sheets of good backgrounds to get a bigger backdrop.
      I also use background fabric over foam board. I can get a larger continuous surface that way and if the fabric becomes wrinkled, I can iron or tumble-dry it flat again. There’s stone, brick, grass and wheat field print fabric. Fabric isn’t as fragile as paper and it stores more compactly.
      Yay, photography!

  29. Teapot Translator*

    TW for self-harm
    I just learned that my niece is cutting herself. :-(
    I have some questions:
    1. I don’t intend to mention it because she’s not the one who told me. Besides trying to spend time with her, what else can I do to help?
    2. If she tells me about it, what are the things I should avoid saying or doing? Should I just listen and tell her I love her?
    This is very sad for me.

    1. nep*

      If she does bring it up, maybe ask her what she’d like you to know or understand about it. And be OK with long periods of silence, which might help her share more than she otherwise might.
      Sorry your niece is struggling. Wishing you both peace.

    2. Anon For This*

      This is something I have personal experience with. In many cases it has nothing to do with suicide and is more about managing stress. It was a bad habit and it faded in time. Honestly, I don’t think you should bring it up with her that you know because she’s probably embarrassed that people are talking about this. Yes just try to be a supportive presence in her life, ask her questions, listen thoughtfully (without making it seem like she is A Project or a A Problem you trying to solve) and at most, offer some healthier suggestions you use for self care when you’re upset or feeling bad.

      1. nep*

        Wow–this is so subtle but so important. Not making a person feel they’re A Project or A Problem. What a great insight.

      2. Reba*

        This is great advice. I also did this as a young person, and even though I mentioned it in creative writing projects and told close friends, I would *never* have wanted to talk about it with an aunt or other adult, or know that people were talking about it without me (!!).

        Maybe you could invite niece to do some fun, soothing self care thing with you. Home spa, scented candles…?

        Glad your niece has you in her life.

        1. Teapot Translator*

          Thank you for sharing your experience. I’ll try to focus on fun activities. I don’t intend to talk about it with her unless she talks about it first. And if she does, I will try to just listen.

      3. sparkly pink toad*

        this was exactly true in my daughter’s case: all about managing stress.
        can you (teapot translator) take up a sport with niece? hiking/biking etc? where you can get outside, get exercise and open space for lighthearted or deep conversations.

        1. Teapot Translator*

          I’ll ask her. We’re not a very sporty family (although I do try). I used to hike, but I had to stop because of a foot injury, then the pandemic.

      4. Teapot Translator*

        Thank you for sharing your experience. I have no intention of mentioning it first. If she ever mentions it to me, I will try to just listen and not try to Solve The Problem. Her parents are trying to get her help.

    3. Wishing You Well*

      I am sorry your niece is doing this.
      I’d ask a mental health expert what to do or say. Start with either your own health care people or a mental health hotline.
      I hope things get better soon.

    4. pancakes*

      This is a pretty big deal and I don’t think just waiting for her to eventually stop is necessarily the best way to handle it. It isn’t a healthy coping strategy and she won’t necessarily navigate to better ones on her own, or with time. If she does talk to you about it, or if you have an opening to talk to her, I’d advise her to text an experienced crisis counselor. In the US it looks like texting 741741 is a good resource. There’s a page about self-harm on their site, crisistextline dot org.

      1. Anon For This*

        This is so contextual. I can only speak to my own experience – but someone calling a crisis hotline and acting like I was suicidal would have been the Exact. Wrong. Approach in my case. It would have ensured that I hid it better and made sure nobody EVER found out. What I was doing was not actually all that dangerous (this may vary??) – it was a bad habit like picking nails down to the quick so that they bled, except I used a pen knife … but adding a ton of stress and stigma would have for sure pushed me over the edge.

        1. pancakes*

          I was not trying to suggest calling it for her, and I didn’t use the word suicidal, nor intend to allude to suicidal ideation in any way. I’m sorry, I see my language could’ve been clearer! I do think you’re reading quite a bit into it that isn’t there, though.

          I would also not think it necessary or ideal to use the word “crisis.” Something along the lines of, “I found a number you can text to talk to someone about that,” would be far better, if, as I said, she talks to you, or you have a good opening to talk to her.

      2. Teapot Translator*

        Thank you for the concern. Here parents know what’s going on and they’re getting her help. As an aunt, I’m not the one who “is entitled” to intervene and get her help.
        I just want to know what to avoid to do so I don’t exacerbate the problem.

        1. pancakes*

          I didn’t mean to suggest a degree of entitlement.

          I wish you’d specified that her parents are aware! That is pretty relevant.

    5. Anima*

      Someone with experience here.
      I *hated* to explain the why to anybody, even my therapist. It took me YEARS to realize why I was doing it. So, please don’t probe your niece about the why. I had a friend who was just there for me in addition to my therapist and it helped heaps. He was there with positive things like good food and just listened to me ranting about my problems. Maybe you could do the same for your niece? I also second the suggestions of the others, soothing activities with no strings attached like spa day helped me too!

      1. pancakes*

        I don’t think anyone should feel forced to explain why they think they’re doing what they’re doing in order to get help finding alternative outlets for whatever it is, or to find a sympathetic and confidential listener in the meantime, before stopping feels doable. That’s not cool on a therapist’s part to force that. Consider trying a new one who specializes in this area, maybe. There are probably more on line resources now, if you looked in the past.

      2. Teapot Translator*

        Thank you for sharing your experience. I want to avoid doing things that will make her feel pressured or unsafe. I want to help in whatever way I can.

    6. Personal experience*

      I did this when I was 19/20, I think because I was very unhappy and angry about some things in my life and didn’t feel like I could express it / do what I wanted to do to fix it…

      I would say, if you can (and I’m sure this is very hard and sad for you, so it may be tricky) try not to be too sad/angry with her if you talk to her about it. Like… my mum was really, really upset when I told her, and it made a stressful situation even more so. If you’re able to be matter-of-fact and calming to her face, and avoid, like “how could you…” “this is awful…” “just thinking of you like this makes me feel so…” even if you have to get those feelings out elsewhere to someone else, I think that might be good? For me, I didn’t feel like I wanted to talk or be honest about my feelings to close family members if it would make them very upset. Whereas my best friend was all “I’m sorry you feel bad and it makes you want to do this, I am here if you need to talk” (and, sometimes, “hey, you sound really, really down in a text, I’m going to call you”) and that was a big help.

      In general, good listening techniques (like, properly listening to what someone is saying, checking you’ve understood by reflecting back like “it sounds like what you’re saying is…”) and commiserating with someone’s feelings without leaping in to telling them how to solve a problem are all things I’ve found really valuable and may particularly help if someone is feeling distressed/unhappy about things in their life and like they can’t talk about it or don’t know how to (which was what prompted my self-harming). You may be doing all these things already!

      I had it as a habit for a couple of years and even now (a long, long time later) it’s still a bit of a stress instinct for me, but I have avoided getting back into it to the extent that I did then. So I very much hope it will be the same for your niece.

      1. Anon For This*

        I admit that twenty years later I still think of it sometimes when stressed out. But I don’t do it.

      2. Teapot Translator*

        Thank you for sharing your experience.

        I will try not to bring my emotions into the mix (here and elsewhere, I can share) because I did have that trouble with my mother (i.e. I couldn’t express my sadness because she found it unbearable for her children to be sad and she would try to solve it and make me stop crying. You will not be surprised to learn that as an adult, I have a hard time feeling negative emotions. I feel mostly anger.)

  30. Teapot Translator*

    I also have a less heavy question.
    I’m thinking of buying some bluetooth headphones.
    I want something that is good quality but not too expensive.
    Any recommendations?

    1. LadyGrey*

      Otium wireless headphones! Around £17 on Amazon, they’re the sporty kind with two earbuds connected by a cable, so they don’t take up a lot of space in your bag. Very good sound, and good mic too, they’re great for calls.

    2. CoffeeforLife*

      If you have a Costco membership or a friend who does, they have several headphones in for the holidays.

    3. Anona*

      My husband and I both have jlab earbuds from best buy. They were about $50 and we really like them.

      1. comityoferrors*

        I have JLab earbuds too and I love them! I have pretty small ears/ear-holes, so the AirPods and other Apple earbuds always gave me trouble. The JLab earbuds have a ton of adjustable sizes and some different shapes, which was important to me. They are very comfortable — I wear them roughly 6 hours a day most days, doing office work, moving around my home and office, going for a jog or going to the gym. The sound is great too, IMO. My only complaint is that the Bluetooth range isn’t as far as I’d like…but it’s plenty far for normal use, I’ve just been spoiled by near-constant access to my music.

    5. Observer*

      I have a pair of sony neckbuds – I like it better than the truly and completely wireless ones because I can keep them around my neck (I don’t always have pockets for a case.)

      They were about $30 I think. These are in-ear earbuds.

  31. Blue Eagle*

    Reading thread

    I am in the midst of reading The War That Killed Achilles by Caroline Alexander. It is billed as the true story of Homer’s Iliad and the trojan war. Despite the many times I started reading an English translation of the Iliad, I never could get into it because it was just too much to figure out. So, I am enjoying this book (which includes passages of the Iliad but then goes on to explain what was happening at the time as part of the war action as well as the background of the various characters and their prior/later interactions).
    What nonfiction books are you reading and enjoying (I’d like to put some good nonfiction on reserve at the library for winter reading).

    1. nep*

      I recently heard an interview with Robert Giles…talking about his book When Truth Mattered. That’s on my nonfiction-in-the-near-future list. As is Spain in Our Hearts by Adam Hochschild. (Speaking of the Spanish civil war, absolutely loved Homage to Catalonia by Orwell.)

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      For nonfiction, I really particularly like memoirs and biographies. I’ve recently finished Dick van Dyke’s and Carol Burnett’s memoirs, and Dean Koontz’s “A Big Little Life” which is basically a memoir of his first dog, which were all remarkably wholesome and sweet. “American Prometheus” is a bio of Oppenheimer, which was fascinating.

      Previous favorites: “Radium Girls” is fascinating and heartbreaking, ditto “And The Band Played On”. “The Emperor of All Maladies” by Siddhartha Mukherjee is a history of cancer treatments as written by an oncology researcher who is also an excellent storyteller. (When I’m not reading bios, I also like medical history with a focus to historical epidemiology, so if that’s of interest I have other recs as well, but I know that’s a little dicey these days :) )

      1. Just a PM*

        Similar to Radium Girls is “The Atomic City Girls.” It’s about Oak Ridge TN. It is more historical fiction than nonfiction, though, but the stories are based on a few biographies of women who worked there.

    3. Just a PM*

      I am almost done with Rage by Bob Woodward. And I’m enjoying it much more than I thought I would (I couldn’t get through Fear). It kind of reminds me of “Profiles in Courage” a little, the way Woodward has chapters about the people around The President’s inner circle and how they navigated leadership issues. It is framed within the context of COVID exploding in February/March so if you have COVID fatigue, I’d stay away from it.

      I recently read Team of 5. Was a fascinating look at the presidency from a history-making perspective in terms of what people do when they’re in office and how they navigate the relationships between both predecessor and successor. (There is another similar book that came out years ago, The President’s Club, that I enjoy re-reading from time to time. This one goes back to Hoover’s time and goes up to the early Obama days. I feel like Team of 5 is a “kind of but not really” sequel to The President’s Club.) Neither book is political to me — more leadership and interpersonal relationship-y to me.

      Next up for me is Julie Andrews’ memoir of the Hollywood years. I am on the waiting list for A Promised Land and Hillbilly Elegy (though I’ve seen the movie already).

      A nonfiction book I read last year has really stuck with me all this time later — The Only Plane in the Sky. It’s an intimate and very close-up look about the events of September 11th, told in first-person narratives from people who were there or around those events. I was 12 in 2001 so I remember That Day and those events through kid-lens and History Channel documentaries so the book was a real eye-opener about the turmoil, grief, and “is this really happening”ness that were shielded from us. (It is heavy, though. Had to decompress with cheery light-hearted chick lit for several weeks afterwards.)

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Related to “The Only Plane in the Sky”: “Firefight” about the immediate aftermath at the Pentagon, and the work the first responders did there to get the fire under control.

    4. Stephanie*

      Reading One Person, No Vote by Carol Anderson which talks about voter suppression in the US.

      Other nonfiction books I’ve read recently and have enjoyed:
      –Meaty, We Are Never Meeting in Real Life, and Wow, No Thank You by Sam Irby: three confessional memoirs — her writing is hilarious
      –Say Nothing by Patrick Raden O’Keefe: historical account of the Troubles
      –Killers of the Flower Moon by David Grann: chronicles murders on a Native American reservation and the beginnings of the FBI

      1. Uranus Wars*

        Did you know Carol Anderson also released a Young Adult version of One Person, No Vote I haven’t read it yet (it’s on my list) or the YA version but I loved that she wrote something so important geared to a younger generation.

      2. pancakes*

        The Patrick Raden O’Keefe book is on my list, too. I’ve only heard good things about it. My next non-fiction read will be Francesca Wade’s Square Haunting, though.

    5. Stephanie*

      Oh, I also really liked The Skies Belong to Us by Brendan Koerner, which chronicles the skyjacking era in the US. Story is wild.

    6. Jackalope*

      I’m currently reading Black Diamonds by Catherine Bailey. It’s a story of late 1800s/early to mid-1900s England, including how the old system of aristocracy went down because of the changing situation in the world, and the strikes by coal miners and other workers that managed to change things up. I’m about 1/2way through and am enjoying it a lot. (I also enjoyed her book The Secret Rooms.) She’s a very engaging writer, and really draws you into the story.

      I’m guessing that at least some of the people here are familiar with Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance. I read it a few years ago when it first came out, and am now reading a book called Appalachian Reckoning, which is written in response to that book. Many people in the area had issues w/ JD Vance saying that his situation was true for the whole area, and so this book contains many different offerings (essays, poems, photographs, possibly even short stories) from people living in Appalachia who want to share their experiences of life there. I’m of two minds about reading this one. On the one hand, I feel like it’s an incredibly important book with lots to add to the world. Appalachia isn’t an area I’ve spent any significant time in, so I’ve been enjoying learning more about it. On the other hand, a number of the essays in particular are written by college professors, and… it shows. They have wonderful, neatly laid-out facts, lots of references, good information, and… they’re dry and hard to engage with. One of the reasons that Hillbilly Elegy has made such a splash is that no matter how you feel about the material itself, it’s very readable. When I first heard about Appalachian Reckoning I was hopeful that it would be something that could be wide-read as well, but I read a fair bit of nonfiction and I’m having to drag myself through some bits of it, so I don’t know that that will happen. If anyone is interested in that area, though, it’s got a lot of good stuff, and if you’re less stubborn than me you can even choose to skip some of the essays if they’re bogging you down.

      1. pancakes*

        Try Elizabeth Catte’s What You Are Getting Wrong About Appalachia instead, maybe. It’s not long and very engaging.

          1. pancakes*

            Black Diamonds sounds really interesting too, adding that to my wishlist. It sounds a bit like The Magnificent Ambersons without the clunkiness, and with more of a focus on people who do the thing we don’t talk about on weekends.

    7. Miss Dove*

      I’m reading Lincoln on the Verge by Ted Widmer. It’s about Lincoln’s journey to his inauguration in 1861. It’s so good. Highly recommend.

    8. Parenthetically*

      I recently finished The Poisoner’s Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York and REALLY enjoyed it — I read so many parts aloud to my husband, probably to his annoyance, but it was so fascinating and educational while being fast-paced and fun. I also read Alexander’s The Bounty years ago and really enjoyed it as well.

      1. pancakes*

        Adding to my list. I enjoyed The Inheritor’s Powder, about arsenic and forensics, but it had more of a UK focus. This one sounds great.

    9. Lives in a Shoe*

      I have been delighted by Bee Wilson’s Consider the Fork. It’s a history of eating and cooking implements and food and I just couldn’t put it down.

    10. I take tea*

      I’m in the middle of Invisible women. Data bias in a world designed for men by Caroline Criado Perez, about how a lot of things in our society are made by men for men, and how it’s both infuriating for women and also more expensive in a lot of ways. Can recommend, but be prepared to be frustrated with the bias blindness in a lot of decision making.

    11. OtterB*

      I recently read and enjoyed Alex Trebek’s memoir The Answer Is. It was a quick read.

      It was a while ago, but I remember enjoying:

      The Wild Trees: A Story of Passion and Daring by Preston (about climbing redwoods, and what lives in the canopy)
      Mountains Beyond Mountains by Kidder, about Dr. Paul Farmer

      Nonfiction on my TBR pile, so I can’t vouch for it but it intrigued me enough to buy/check out:

      How the South Won the Civil War by Heather Cox Richardson
      Calling Bullshit: The Art of Skepticism in a Data-Driven World by Bergstrom & West
      Underland by MacFarlane, about geology and things underground and how that interacts with people
      Welcome to the Goddam Ice Cube: Chasing Fear and Finding Home in the Great White North, by Blair Braverman. I enjoy her Outside magazine pieces and her twitter feed about training her sled dogs so am hoping I’ll like the book also.

    12. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Still holding back on inhaling last year’s Christmas gifts: “Mudlark: in Search of London’s Past Along the River Thames” by Lara Maiklem , and “All the best Rubbish” by Ivor Noël Hume.

    13. Purple Penguin*

      I’ve been on a women-doing-amazing-things reading binge. For nonfiction, I’ve enjoyed:

      +A Woman of No Importance by Sonia Purnell. It’s about an American spy during WWII.
      +Code Name: Lise by Larry Loftis. Same subject as above but about the most decorated British spy during WWII.
      +The Unwomanly Face of War by Svetlana Alexievich. This was FANTASTIC. It’s about the myriad of Russian women who fought during WWII.
      +Marie Curie and Her Daughters by Shelley Emling. All about the infamous Curie family.

      1. I take tea*

        Anything by Svetlana Alexievich is worth reading. The one about Tjernobyl could be interesting as a complement to the TV series.

      2. Jaid*

        There’s a version on YouTube, where the musicians are Indian and using traditional instruments. That, I really like.

        Oh, and Terry Gross of Fresh Air interviewed him in the 90’s. They rebroadcast that yesterday, so you could probably listen to it online!

    2. Helvetica*

      John Coltrane “Blue Train” – the first notes with the sax are so beautiful, as is the rest of the album.
      And it is a perennial classic but I do agree that “Kind of Blue” by Miles Davis is an extraordinary piece of work.

    3. Courageous cat*

      It’s weird, I listen to jazz ALL THE TIME (the cool jazz station on Pandora is my favorite) and now that I’m thinking about it, I couldn’t tell you. I know so many songs but I don’t know who does them. I’m going to start paying more attention now.

      Dave Brubeck is great though, I remember when he died.

      1. pancakes*

        Also Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Vince Guaraldi, and if you’re interested in jazz singers, Keely Smith and Chet Baker.

  33. Lcsa99*

    Any one have any sweet recipies that could use up 8 egg yolks? We are making cookies using the whites and hate to throw away, but know if we freeze them, we will never use them.

    1. Grits McGee*

      Baked custard? The first couple recipes that came up in Google used whole eggs, but I think you could just use yolks and be fine. (If anything, the final product would probably be richer.)

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      key lime (or lemonade) pie will take 3 per pie!

      One brick well-softened cream cheese, one can sweetened condensed milk, 1/2 cup (key lime or lemon) juice, and 3 egg yolks. Mix in blender until smooth (if the cream cheese isn’t fully softened, it will never not be lumpy, so I leave it out to soften for a couple hours or actually microwave it after unwrapping it for a few seconds), pour into a graham cracker pie crust, bake at 350 for ten minutes and chill overnight. (Regular lime juice will NOT be tasty with this recipe.)

      I don’t like meringue, so any time I make pie I’m going “What to do with the whites …” and I end up scrambling them for my dogs, haha.

    5. It happens*

      Citrus curd! You can make a variety- lemon, lime, blood orange… and you can freeze whatever you don’t smear on your cookies, toast, or anything that can use a little flavor boost. (I discovered this when I got on an angel food cake kick.)

    6. Jules the 3rd*

      Babka uses an extra yolk, I suspect if you threw in two it wouldn’t hurt anything.

      Taste website has 70 recipes for using up yolks, just google “egg yolk recipes Taste”. Lots of brulees and custards.

      1. CoffeeforLife*

        I’m baking babka right now and no extra yolk in the recipe..I hope it turns out-never made it before

          1. Jules the 3rd*

            Babka is always tasty, but yeah, you need the extra yolk. I’m allergic to egg yolk, so I keep track of what uses a lot. No custards or cremes for me, and limited babka and brioche. Not everyone uses extra egg for brioche, but it’s common enough for me to avoid.

    7. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      Gold cake, which is just a basic cake that uses all egg yolks. I just did a quick google to be sure I remembered correctly and it turns out Alton Brown’s gold cake recipe uses 8 yolks.

    9. Pharmgirl*

      Pastry cream uses up egg yolks! Ive used it to make chocolate cream pie (chocolate pastry cream instead of pudding). There are also a few Swedish bun recipes that use pastry cream as a filling (butterkaka, Swedish vanilla buns). Or you can dollop pastry cream in brownies and swirl it as an alternative to cream cheese swirl brownies.

      Or maybe go savory? At least 2 or 3 of the yolks can be used for carbonara (which uses whole eggs too, but I find that an extra yolk or two helps the sauce come together).

      1. Lcsa99*

        Oh thank you. This rmids m that we have a recipe for a chocolate budino we’ve been wanting to try and that takes 5 yolks.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Meringue cookies.
      I don’t have the recipe any more but a quick google says 3 egg whites per batch. We always put chocolate chips in ours.

    11. Natalie*

      Going a totally different direction – if you drink, how about aged eggnog? I used the chow hound recipe and now have 12 egg whites in my fridge.

    12. Not A Manager*

      There are a lot of cookies that require only egg yolks. You could google and see which ones sound good to you. Then you’d have egg white cookies and egg yolk cookies.

    13. Alaska_Blue*

      Smitten kitchen’s cranberry orange breakfast buns or pecan sticky buns. The dough uses 4 yolks apiece. Could be made ahead and pulled out for a weekend delicious breakfast. :)

    14. Washi*

      Ice cream! The more egg yolks, the richer it is. It isn’t quite the same without a machine, but I’ve made really good ice cream using the freeze and stir method (exactly what it sounds like, and much more feasible when you’re stuck at home in a pandemic.)

      1. Washi*

        And actually, when I was looking up improvements to that method, you can also freeze the ice cream, then food process it, then freeze it again, which the Kitchn decleares to be the best and easiest way to do it. I never had a food processer in my freeze-and-stir days, but that sounds way easier!

      2. Lcsa99*

        His was actually my first thought. My husband loves making ice cream and we actually have a machine to churn it but unfortunately he prefers the ones without yolk.

      1. N.*

        Yum, there used to be a Portuguese bakery in my neighborhood, and a friend and I were reminiscing about their pastéis de nata. I think I read somewhere that they used to use egg whites in wine making, so monasteries and convents made sweets with the yolks. Lots of sweets recipes from Portugal and Spain use yolks.

    18. Glass Piano*

      Pasta will use up some of them, along with some whole eggs (I usually do a 1:1 ratio of yolks to whole eggs). Try making ravioli and then freezing them for a quick dinner!

  34. Laura H.*

    Little joys thread

    What brought you joy this week?

    There’s a lovely restaurant near my seasonal gig location. The staff is lovely and the breakfast burritos are great. It’s also a nice place to hunker down while I wait for my start time to get a little closer. (It’s not enough of a walk that I have to leave super early, but I can only get into my building within a range as a COVID consideration, and my timing is still a little not quite on the nose with that.)

    And most of my Christmas shopping is done.

    And reading your additions to these threads also brings me joy.

    Spread some joy and have a wonderful weekend.

    1. Just a PM*

      Wegmans brought back their original chocolate cheesecake. Here, they changed the recipe over the summer and were making these tiny little mini-chocolate cheesecake (sized like a small tart or a large petit four). The recipe was fine but the portion was ridiculous. I had play-kitchen plastic food bigger than this thing!

      As of last weekend, they’re back to regular-sized chocolate cheesecakes that you can buy in individual slices or whole. Yay!

      1. CTT*

        I MISS WEGMANS! I used to live as far south as they ever got (northern Virginia) and then I moved even further south to Tennessee, and there’s just nothing here that’s the same. When my parents were still in Virginia, I would insist on going grocery shopping for my mom so I could go to Wegmans.

      2. The Other Dawn*

        I love Wegman’s and wish there was one near me. I always make a point of stopping on my way home from visiting my cousin in Lancaster, PA. The hot food doesn’t normally make it all the home to CT–I scarf that on the ride home.

    2. GoryDetails*

      Right now I’m watching the rain turn to snow outside my window, while the birds visit the newly-filled feeders – and two of my cats are asleep on my lap. [This has effectively pinned me to the chair and is making me type with my arms at an odd angle so as not to disturb the cats, but for now it’s very sweet!]

    3. WellRed*

      I put up my tree and lights in windows. My whole living room now has a cozy evening glow. Also, work from home means can also enjoy it more.

    5. SunnySideUp*

      My special joy this week was finally ordering new specs. I couldn’t find frames I liked but went to a Lenscrafters “Optique” and found some that are a sort of grey translucent with a faint leopard pattern on the arms. Totally me ;)

    7. RagingADHD*

      We got my daughter 2 guinea pigs for her birthday. I wasn’t raised with pets in the home, so I was a little leery, but they are so, so sweet and adorable. I love the happy little noises they make!

      1. Never Nicky*

        Aww. Two weeks ago I took on two foster guinea pigs after not having any for a number of years. They hadn’t been handled much and it’s been a real joy to see them relax and settle and their personalities develop.

        1. RagingADHD*

          We’d agreed to get one, assuming that the kid would probably socialize her more than she could stand anyway. When they brought her home, she seemed pretty sad/scared, and my husband said there were 2 together, but he didn’t want to spring an extra on me without discussing it. Of course I agreed & they went back and got the sister, there was nothing else one could do. They were so happy to be back together, chatting away.

          1. Pippa K*

            I remember a news item from a couple of years ago about a Swiss law making it impermissible to keep only one guinea pig, because they’re such social creatures (this also applies to a few other species). One curious effect of this is the existence of rent-a-guinea-pig services to provide companionship for the remaining guinea pig should his or her buddy pass away, which I think is kind of sweet!

    8. Blue Eagle*

      My guilty pleasure at Christmastime is the one pound Nestles Crunch bar (which I’ve only ever found available for purchase in late November and December). So my JOY this week was ordering a couple and having them delivered yesterday. I already started chomping on the first one but will save the other one as a Christmas treat.

    9. Potatoes gonna potate*

      My joy? Someone slept 9 straight hours!

      Not me, but someone did. Here’s hoping it turns into a habit!!!!

    10. NoLongerYoung*

      My joy was – I finally got the last of the dregs of the husbands junk sold in a yard sale (2 years of decluttering, but … everything gone except some office paperwork).

      AND I got a Christmas tree up last Sunday night. First time since before he died. I decorated it just the way I wanted it.

      I am going to very cautiously have my pod of 2 friends over to cookie bake next weekend – my version of entertaining. I’m very thrilled to be able to have the decluttering to the point where I can entertain.

      (I’ve been reading the cookie thread above avidly – I have a binder of recipes but always look for more).

  35. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

    Anybody remember how much their cats grew after 6 months? I’ve tried googling, but all the websites basically have the same info (Maine Coons can keep growing for up to 2 years!) which is not helpful. My girl is still tiny and I’m wondering if she will stay tiny or just be small. I’ve had cats before, but cannot remember how much they grew when.

    BTW, this is the kitten I was asking advice on when we found her back in July. I thought she might be special needs and was wondering about the practicalities of handling that, or if I even could. Turns out she was just dehydrated, underfed and hurt. As soon as she started feeling better, we realized that her natural state is basically spiderman.

    1. EBennett*

      Our littlest cat, who we found abandoned when she was only a few weeks old, did not grow much after about 10 months. She still looks like a kitten.
      We are grateful she is small because she likes to climb the curtains and if she were bigger she could do some serious damage.
      What does your “Spiderman” do?

      1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

        Scales the furniture like spiderman climbing a skyscraper, mostly. She prefers that to just jumping up like a normal cat. She is also generally an athletic and rambunctious kitten.

    2. Nicki Name*

      You really can’t know unless you have a purebred cat. *Most* cats reach their adult size at 12-18 months. But some can do that faster or much slower (Maine Coons can actually keep growing until age 4!!).

      For example, I currently have two 15+-pound monsters. One of them was huge as a kitten. At 6 months he was already bigger than the adult cats we had at the time. The other was completely average-sized as a kitten, and just… didn’t stop growing for a long time, like a Maine Coon.

    3. mreasy*

      My gal is just about 12 months and is either still growing or just stopped. She’s also teeny, maxing out at 7.3 lbs.

    4. Mella*

      It’s a crapshoot.

      My malnourished orphaned preemie is 20 pounds at 3+ years old and still growing. Not just getting fatter–we measure him when he stretches to reach the counters, and his reach is still increasing. He looks like a tabby mix, but I suspect some Maine Coon is in there too.

      My tuxie is under 7 pounds and stopped growing at about four months. She also has a heart murmur and hypothyroidism, but wasn’t diagnosed until 6 years old.

    5. violet04*

      My petite house panther is 8 years old and around 6 pounds. She’s very small in stature and didn’t grow too much from when we rescued her off the streets when she was 6 months old. From looking at old pictures, her face still looked young and kitten-like but she didn’t grow much bigger in height or length. She’s totally healthy and holds her own with her chunky brothers.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I adopted sisters/litter mates around this time 8 years ago (?!) so I’m being reminded of this now with Facebook ‘memories’.

      I adopted them at around 3 months (12 weeks); … at 6 months they were still visibly “smol”, and developed a lot but even at 1 year they were still not fully grown.. they reached full bone structure/size at about 18 months but were still developing and filling out until about 3 years of age (although most of the development was complete by 2 years).

    7. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      Thanks for the advice, all! I guess I will just have to wait and see. No idea of her breeding-probably she doesn’t have any. My brothers scooped her out of a busy street when she was about 6 weeks old. I’m pretty sure she isn’t going to be big, since she is only a bit over 5 lbs now at 6 months.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I actually think she might still have some growing to do! Five pounds at six months doesn’t sound terribly off to me for that age. Ours have mostly been done growing in terms of bone structure by one year, but then keep filling out for another few years. But six months? She’s still a baby. (Wallace was five months when we got him — and still nursing! — and he nearly doubled in size later on.)

        Also, Hank and Laurie were probably about a year when they came to us (no one knows for sure) and they’re definitely larger now than they were at first (although part of that may be that they hadn’t been getting enough food).

    8. Dog and cat fosterer*

      Kittens at 6 months are usually about 50-70% of their final weight, so if she’s 5 lbs now then I would guess a final weight of 7.5-10 lbs. Very approximate but a good rough guide.

      I am so happy for this positive update! Thanks for taking the chance with her, and what good news for both of you.

      1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

        She’s been great, just needed a few weeks of good chow and a safe place to heal. Only problems I’ve had with her since are the normal kitten ones. Took her a while to learn not to use her claws and she’s a bit of a wild child. I’ve gotten a few more scratches from this kitten than the last!

        She’s been really awesome for my grown cat though, who was really lonely by herself all day. I was worried about adding a second cat, since my family’s older cats always have despised the kittens, but the two of them are BFFs now. Snuggles and racing around the room, bathing each other and wrestling matches.

  36. tabby cat troubles*

    Hello all. I posted about this issue in July, and I need more advice.

    My cat (8 years old) had two accidents outside her litter box over the summer. The accidents were nowhere near the litter box, they were just on the living room floor. Both times it was poop, no urine. She kept using her litter box to pee.

    I took her to the vet to get her health checked out, and they did a fecal sample and said it was fine. I also thoroughly cleaned her litter box and changed the litter, as well as cleaning the entire room her box is in to make sure it wasn’t too dirty or smelly because a lot of commenters said that could be an issue.

    Since all that happened in July/August, we have since moved to a bigger house in early October. She pooped on the floor once, right after we moved, which I wasn’t too shocked about since we uprooted her and she was adjusting to a new house. Since then she has seemed relaxed in the new house.

    Last week on Wednesday, I dumped her old litter and cleaned the box. I am trying to do it more frequently since the accidents. But this week she has gone outside her box a couple of times – but this time, she’s doing it directly outside her box. Yesterday, there was poop about a foot from her box, this morning, she pooped on the mat that is right outside her box, basically inches from her box.

    I am confused and stressed! In August, her fecal sample was fine, and I JUST cleaned her box a week ago.

    Her box has a lid on it, and she is 8 years old. Does anyone have an idea of what is going on or how I can fix this?

    1. SpellingBee*

      My first suggestion is to remove the lid. Some cats don’t like them, and even though she’s been okay with it before, the more upright posture cats assume when pooping may make having the lid there uncomfortable for her. The fact that she’s going right next to the box makes me think that may be the issue, and it’s an easy and cheap thing to try!

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I was gonna say the same thing — our cats were fine with lidded boxes for the longest time, but right around age 5-6, two of them abruptly decided that unless they have like, 18″ or more clearance, a lid is Not Acceptable. (One of the cat boxes is in a plywood enclosure to keep the dog out, and the lid on that is up at around counter height, and that’s apparently okay, if only because she also likes to sit on the lid and look out the window.)

    2. My Cat's Meowmy*

      Obviously every cat is different and your milage may vary, but when my cat was doing #2s outside the litter box I finally figured out that it was because the litter in the box wasn’t deep enough for him to feel comfortable digging there. On more than one occasion he went on the rug just outside his box and tried to cover it with the corner of the rug. Adding several more inches of litter has made him a regular box user again.

    3. Jackalope*

      One of my cats has been doing that a bit lately as well. The other day my husband and I happened to be near the litter box and saw that he was using it properly, but then when he was almost done there was a noise that scared him and he jumped out, scattering his poop near the box as he jumped. So while I’m guessing that moving the lid might work in your cat’s case, maybe also see if there might be something that could be startling her? (Something that regularly makes noise near the box, for example.)

      1. tabby cat troubles*

        My partner thinks this might be the issue because her box is next to the hvac system and the heat pump is pretty noisy when it kicks on. She might be getting startled from that mid-poop…I’m going to try to observe her lol.

    4. Melody Pond*

      A week ago? Meaning, her box went a week without being cleaned? That doesn’t sound nearly frequent enough to me. I believe the recommendation I’ve heard is to clean litter boxes at least once every two days, and preferably once a day (admittedly, we never manage to hit the every day mark, tbh).

      Also, how many litter boxes do you have? I think the recommendation is to have one litter box for every cat in the house plus one. So, for one cat, you should have two litter boxes; for two cats, you should have three litter boxes, etc.

      1. Melody Pond*

        Sorry, to be clear – when I say “clean” I don’t mean emptying out all the litter and starting from scratch. I mean merely removing the poop and urine (assuming a clumping-style litter). Also, I think I’ve heard Jackson Galaxy say he’s not a fan of litter boxes with lids, as many cats won’t like them. My elderly cat doesn’t squat to pee at all, though, so we do use very high-sided litter boxes.

        1. tabby cat troubles*

          I meant clean as in dump the litter, scrub the box, and put fresh litter in. I scoop her box twice every day – when I wake up and before I go to bed.

    5. CatCat*

      I’d try removing the lid first. If that doesn’t work, try a different texture litter. One of my kitties won’t use large crystal silica litter, but will use the silica litter with tiny crystals that are like sand.

    6. Dancing Otter*

      Is she possibly dehydrated? When Winston doesn’t drink enough, he sometimes has a poop get stuck that eventually drops off wherever. (Of course, sometimes he’s making a statement on the bed or laundry. But that doesn’t sound like your situation.)

    7. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Definitely try removing the lid first. Around 8 years old both of our started peeing mostly outside the box and it was a pain for a long time until we realized that boy cat was just a bit too big and girl kitty ONLY wanted to pee half standing rather than squatting more. We got a Modcat and that solved innumerable problems. But before that? No issues. The only thing they needed changed was the basic geometry of the box – ergo, try taking the lid off.

      It could be age, changing preferences, but I think the startling is a good suggestion, along with removing the lid and trying new/deeper litter.

      Where was the box before you moved?

    8. RC Rascal*

      Mine went next to the box when he was losing his vision. Placed a nightlight nearby and problem solved. Same kitty also developed an aversion to commercial kitty litter when he was 7. Switched him to baking soda & shredded newspaper and problem solved. I suspect they added a chemical to the litter he didn’t like. He passed last year & I was having a hard time keeping him in newspaper as everything goes online.

    9. Dog and cat fosterer*

      I would suggest a second box, as some cats like doing their pee and poop separately. That second box will be your test, where you do things differently from the first to figure out the problem. I would try no lid, maybe a different type of litter (although unlikely to be the problem, but absolutely do not use perfumed, and cats do seem to prefer clay as a default), more litter (so deeper), clean it twice daily or only every few days (I know someone whose cat is more reliable with the box if they scoop occasionally and never completely substitute the litter – he seems to like having some of his smell), and have it next to his box and then move it to the other side of the room. Anything you can think of, try to change it up. Good luck!

    10. TPS reporter*

      My 13 year old cat does this too, on occasion. It seems like it’s not a health issue but something behavioral. HOWEVER, just in case she could be a little constipated I have started giving her salmon oil, pumpkin and forti flora.

      I got her from another home that had multiple cats. One theory is that one or more of the cats scared her once while pooping so that gave her PTSD. In my house we have several litter boxes and clean them frequently. We’ve moved them around to different parts of the house to see what the cats like. It seems like a closet with lots of room to maneuver has been the best so far. STILL, my special girl goes in the living room sometimes. She usually does it after we have come back from a trip (i.e. she was mad at us).

      A move is a huge deal for a cat so I’m not surprised about your girl. I bet if you found a quieter area, removed the lid and got another box that would help. And just giving it time. If she is going right next to the box you can surround it with puppy wee wee pads. Then at least you save your floors.

  37. LK03*

    German music recommendations? My partner is into folk music and we’ve recently been enjoying CDs by the 1970s group Wacholder and the 1990s group Die Streuner. But most of the vocals are by men, and the same seems to be true of other similar groups he’s been able to find out about by web searches. Does anyone know of groups or artists with a similar sound and repertoire, but with mostly female vocals?

    Ideally: acoustic instrumentation and traditional folk music (rather than singer-songwriter).

    Thanks for any ideas!

    1. Jaid*

      Not German, Swedish, but I think you would like Garmarna. Folk music with a bit of rock/metal. I heavily recommend their Vedergällningen album.

      You can find their music on YouTube to see if you like it, first.

      1. LK03*

        Thanks for the rec! I will check them out. We already know and like Väsen (although of course they’re instrumental). Also Värttina (female vocalists, but Finnish). So this sounds great!

        One of our reasons for looking for German music specifically is we are in the US but we’re tying to raise our kid bilingual. But my partner, who’s the German speaker, is actually only from the US too, so we don’t always know stuff like good 20th-century folk-music artists!

        1. Jaid*

          Wikimedia (not pedia), has the category of folk music groups, German and even notates if they are:

          Folk rock groups from Germany‎ (20 C, 5 F)
          Indie folk groups from Germany‎ (3 C, 1 F)
          Contemporary folk music groups from Germany‎ (2 C)

          I think this is relevant to your interests, then! :-)

    2. Generic Name*

      I’m a fan of Corvus Corax. They’re sort of heavy metal/medieval folk. Super weird and amazing. :) Faun I think is German. Described as medieval pagan folk.

      1. Anima*

        Faun is seconded! They are German and their earlier albums have traditionals on them. The have singing males, but the lead is often female, if that interests you.
        I would not start withe the newer albums, Faun were on a TV show a few years back that mostly catered to people who like classic Volksmusik (not the same as Folk!) and Fauns newer albums were a lot more like that. Start with the early stuff and go chronologically until it gets too bad. The really new stuff is fine, too.

    3. Amerdale*

      Die Irrlichter is an all-female group. Bannkreis and Zwielicht have at least female and male vocals.
      And Versengold used to have a female singer until 2009, I think.

  38. No More News*

    My mother and father constantly have the 24 hours new playing on their TV. They listen to the news like some people listen to music, background noise they barely notice. I need my news in very small and controlled doses, and their usage is stressing me out to the point of not wanting to visit them. I wouldn’t mind if it was just in the morning over coffee but it’s from the moment they wake up until dinner time, when they switch over to watch a movie or TV show.

    I’ve mentioned it in passing but I don’t think they get how much it bothers me. When I visited for Thanksgiving, I was reading with my father in the living room with the news on. A segment of interviewing hospital workers during Covid started and I told my father I couldn’t listen to this so I was leaving. He said he would change it which I was grateful but he just switched to a different news channel that was talking about election stuff. That same day, when both of my parents stepped out for a moment, I changed the tv to a music channel. When they returned, my mother immediately swapped it back to news.

    I think I’m hesitant to say anything because my parents have always been possessive of the tv: refusing to turn down the volume when I was trying to sleep, overriding us kids during movie selection, that kind of thing. But it really is bothersome to the point that I don’t want to visit, because I know I’ll be drenched in news. Do you think this is an okay thing to ask when it is their daily habit in their own home?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Yep. You’re fine here. They may not be, so prepare for that.

      Leaving a tv on all day would bother me. Leaving news on all day would make me move out.

    3. merope*

      My parents do the same thing — the TV is on the news station all day. I think they like the background noise (my mom) or can’t hear it (my dad).

      One way that I can get them to change is to ask them to watch something with me. For example, my mom and I both like a certain show, which I can’t see (no cable), so when I visit them, we watch it together.

      Another tactic has been to say “I can’t hear you/concentrate on what you are saying while the TV is on (or, I find it distracting). Can we turn it off so we can talk more easily?”

    4. Grapey*

      For me, ANY TV on while not actively watching is a distraction. Plus, my mom listens at a very high level. So when I visit her, I keep having to say “WHAT?” and pulling my attention off the TV a few times before I say “This really distracts me from conversation while this is on, do you need it on?”

      Phrasing it like “do you NEED it on” seems to work. There was only one time she tried to push back like “why is this a problem for you” in which case I didn’t justify it but just repeated “I really can’t concentrate the way you want with a TV on, I’ll come back when your show is over” which got the point across. (Her ‘show’ of leaving the TV on was never over, so she now mutes it/turns it off when I visit.)

      Kids visiting as a guest has a whole different dynamic than just “being possessive of what’s on”. You can now be possessive of how much time you give. If I were you, saying what you said above – “I NEED my news in very small and controlled doses” states your boundaries perfectly. My mom didn’t put her TV habits above my company, and I hope your parents won’t either.

    6. Not A Manager*

      If you literally don’t want to visit because of this, then this is worth a formal negotiation. Tell them in advance (not “in passing”) that you can only hear x amount of news per day in y format. Ask them if they are willing to limit *your* exposure to news while you are there (so if you’re out of hearing they can do what they like, but they have to change back when you’re in earshot).

      Don’t get into your reasons or justifications, just “I can listen to this amount and I can’t listen to any other amount, does that work for you?”

      If they push back, then tell them that you will have to amend you visit. I don’t know what’s reasonable for you in terms of your travel. Options would be visiting just for one overnight, or staying off-site but visiting for a few hours a day, etc. But if the distance means “long onsite visit or no visit at all,” then you might have to (calmly and cheerfully) tell them that you will Zoom with them as much as they like over the holiday, but you can’t visit them this year.

    7. Courageous cat*

      Just tell them that last part. “Actually I’m not planning to come by tomorrow, I’m taking a break from the news”. Make it so that you not coming over is a natural consequence of their being rigid, and they may realize they prefer one over the other.

    8. allathian*

      It’s absolutely okay to ask. Sure, it’s their home, but if the news is really stressing you out, I think you need to say it. They’re obviously free to keep the news channel on, but you’re entitled to make your visits conditional, if they watch the news for more than, say, an hour a day in your presence, you’re leaving. You’re not telling them what to do, you’re telling them what you’re willing to put up with for the sake of their company. They can then act accordingly. If you have a reasonably good relationship, they’ll be able to live with it. If they’re so unwilling to make compromises for your sake that all you can do is conclude that they prefer the news over your company, well, at least you know that too.

    9. Nela*

      My parent’s TV is always on, even when they go outside to do an errand, which I find mind boggling. It’s not the news 27/4, but I find it very hard to concentrate on anything when there’s other dialogue happening. If we’re having a conversation, I just grab the remote and mute or lower the volume. If someone else is hoarding the remote, I ask them to lower the volume. If dad is watching something, I invite mom to sit on a balcony. Blaring TV when we’re focused on conversation is just not acceptable for me, and I let them know that. Yes it’s their home, but if they want me to be comfortable and visit more often, they need to suck it up for a few hours. I don’t put on loud heavy metal music when they visit because I know they would hate it. It’s the same thing!

    10. Thankful for AAM*

      I’m with not a manager and corageous cat. Just tell them directly that you don’t want to be in a place where the TV is on all the time and especially not the news. Let them choose; you or the TV. Others offered more diplomatic scripts but in case it helps for an internet stranger to say, you have permission to choose not visiting/limiting your visit and not being stressed.

  39. Sunflower*

    Has anyone ever used a product(vitamins, sprays, conditioners, etc) that actually makes your hair fuller/thicker? I’ve never had much luck with Biotin and most products seen like influencer paid ads so impossible to deduce if they work or not

    I’m also considering purchasing some clip in hair extensions. Any advice on what to look out for or brands that are especially good?

    1. Uranus Wars*

      I put 2 scoops of collagen powder in one of my drinks throughout the day (super thin, no taste)…sometimes coffee, sometimes tea, sometimes my water and my hair has been healthier than it’s ever been. Thicker, but also healthier.

      I pay about $40 for 30 servings and used Naked brand. I started using it because of joint issues and the hair was a great bonus!

    2. Bookslinger In My Free Time*

      My hair looked pretty fantastic when I was taking brewer’s yeast to boost breast milk supply. It is touted as good for hair/skin/nails. Other than that, I used to be able to find this shampoo/conditioner called Broo that is made with hops and their volume/thickening product *seemed* to do the trick for my hair. You just smell a bit like a brewery when you use it lol

    3. Mella*

      Biotin gave me awful acne, even when combined with a B complex (which is supposed to prevent that). I’ve tried collagen powder, and while it stopped my ankle from clicking, it didn’t affect my hair.

      Honestly, the only thing that’s worked is Rogaine.

      1. Zephy*

        Seconded. I’m fortunate enough to have a “hook up” for Viviscal and I’ve gotten a year’s supply for Christmas the last few years – I don’t know what I’ll do when my hookup retires and can’t get it at wholesale prices anymore. It’s worked amazingly well, but yes, it is made out of shark, if that’s something that will bother you.

    5. WS*

      Supplements only work if you are deficient in that substance – so Biotin will only work if you’re low in vitamin B, for example. I have trouble absorbing minerals and take a calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement, which helps my hair and nails, too. Some people find collagen powder or vitamin E useful but, again, it will only help if you’re actually low in it, otherwise you will just excrete the expensive product you bought!

      A good way to tell is to take something for a month, then stop and observe any difference for at least a week, though with hair you would probably need to stop for longer. If there’s a difference, then you know the supplement was doing something, if not, try something else.

    6. CoffeeforLife*

      If you’re looking for the illusion of thickness there are plenty of spray/ foam/ powder products. I have 2 from Rusk that are root thickeners/ texturizers(I have a lot of very fine hair so it seems thick). I’ve used the ones by Aveda too. With a product you have to walk a fine line of not looking greasy/ clumpy.

      Alternately you could try dry shampoo. It gives my hair more volume/ texture.

  40. WeAreTheJunimos*

    This year for obvious reasons, it’s a little lonely by myself and I’d like to love on a pet. I have had pets growing up and am well aware of the time/cost and undertaking of getting one. I am thinking of choosing a cat. But I have some questions. Mainly, how would a cat do if I work nights? I currently am working nights with no plans to change and the shifts are quite long (twelve hours). The cat would obviously have access to everything it needed while I’m gone and would receive all the love and attention while I’m off.

    1. Uranus Wars*

      I think it would be the same as if you worked days! The cat will adjust to your schedule – I got a cat in March after years of not having one and I tell her everyday how she saved me.

    2. More Coffee Please*

      I’m sure others will have better and more nuanced advice, but I think the cat would be fine.

    3. Helvetica*

      I don’t think it matters much. Cats get used to whatever schedule you have so if you’re up, they’re up and if you’re sleeping, they’re sleeping.

    5. Max Kitty*

      The cat would probably be fine with your schedule. I would recommend getting an adult cat, though, rather than a kitten or a younger cat. As my cats reached 5-6 years old, they started sleeping a lot more.

    6. Jackalope*

      When I got my cats, I made sure to get 2 so they could keep each other company, and I got a pair that already knew each other (since cats can end up hating their feline housemates). I can’t recommend enough getting a pair; they can amuse each other (which means you have less work to do if you come home and are tired), snuggle together, and otherwise keep each other company. A lot of pet places (including the Humane Society) will try to put cat pairs up for adoption together, so if you ask them about that they’ll likely be glad to give you 2 that already like being together.

      1. tangerineRose*

        In this situation, I’d also recommend getting 2 cats, and I’d suggest maybe getting a young adult, maybe 2 or 3 years old – at that point, they’re full sized, so they can’t get into some of the things kittens get into, plus they’re still usually playful but aren’t as crazy as kittens.

    7. Aurora Leigh*

      Cat would be fine! In fact they might actually enjoy being able to have nighttime playtime without you around and be ready for snuggles when you get home.

    8. Flower necklace*

      As others have said, I think it will be fine. Since the pandemic started and I’ve been home a lot more, it’s become obvious to me how much time my cat spends sleeping. I always knew that intellectually, but I assumed that would change once he had so much more access to me. But no. After he’s gets some food and playtime in the morning, he spends most of the day sleeping or watching birds outside the window.

      He’s a fairly young (3 years old) and active cat, too. But he’s still a cat.

    9. The Other Dawn*

      Cats are perfectly fine being alone most of the day, though you’ll want to get toys for them and a cat tree or two. If you’re going for a kitten, get two because they will entertain each other. If you’re not interested in two cats, go for an adult cat (or even a kitten) that prefers to be the only cat/pet. A good rescue will know which of their cats would work best for you.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        This exactly. There is no need to get two, but I would never get just one kitten from a shelter. We occasionally have kittens that aren’t really into their siblings and would be fine on their own, but we only know that because we have foster homes and know them all well (and we still adopt those less social kittens out to homes that have playful older cats, because kittens tend to need company to not be brats at 2am). There are piles of adult cats who want to be alone, or come with a pair. A foster-based rescue should know their cats well. Some shelters are good at knowing their pets, but behaviour in a shelter is different from a home.

    10. mreasy*

      Cats are the best and you should get one (two is ideal if you have the space so they can hang out together while you’re gone). A bonded pair of young adults is a great move. They mostly sleep so it will be fine!!

    11. Paris Geller*

      Definitely fine! Cats definitely need companionship, but the time of day won’t matter much in my experience. Seconding that you may want to look into adopting an already bonded adult pair so they have each other for when you’re gone.

    12. WS*

      Either get 2 cats together so they’ll entertain each other, or get an adult cat who is happy to be left alone overnight. This is the great thing about adopting an adult cat – it has already developed its personality, so you can choose one suited to you, rather than hoping to get the right kitten.

    13. KAZ2Y5*

      I work the night shift also and specifically adopted 2 cats so they would have company when I work. They are a bonded pair and are wonderful together. It was my best decision ever!

  41. Lifelong student*

    Crochet thread- what’s on your hook this week?
    I finished the huge afghan last weekend and will finish a small one today. Then looking for the next project.

    I mostly make lapghans to donate- and occasionally larger pieces. I donate them to the Sisters at the local Benedictine Monastery and usually give them 40 or 50 a year. They have been on lockdown since March so no donation this summer. I have 4 50 gallon totes full accumulated!

    1. Not A Manager*

      I am just finishing a pretty baby blanket BUT – I only have limited yarn and no way to get more of the same, and the “finished” product at the moment is very, very small because I chose a pattern that uses a ton of yarn in each stitch (lots of puff stitches).

      I have some leftover yarn but not enough to just add on in the same pattern of stripes. I’m trying to decide if the parents want a consistent pattern that is more like a very large doily than a blanket, or if they want an improvised new pattern at the top and bottom of the afghan to lengthen it.

    2. Thankful for AAM*

      Its amazing you make so many and have a place to donate them to!

      I just finished one of those circular scarf things for a friend made from one cake of whirl (such thin yarn!). Hardest part will be mailing it!

      I have a mandala style blanket to finish and am joining 2 CALs soon. One in december for a baby blanket and one for 2021 from fiction and fiber – really looking forward to that.

      It has been interesting buying yarn entirely online (this is a new, covid hobby).

  42. Uranus Wars*

    I have a cat question…our new favorite game is “Shove my favorite small toy under the stove so mom has to fish them out”. I realize I have created a monster by allowing her to do this.

    My question is if anyone here has found something (not a towel) that will block things from flying under the stove but still allow you to open the bottom drawer? Maybe a door stopper? I don’t know – but I know there are a lot of cat lovers here!

    1. Michelle*

      You could try attaching a piece of weather stripping to the bottom of the drawer. It should be far enough away from the oven heat to be safe.

    2. Not A Manager*

      Cats are pretty smart. What if she pushes it under and you immediately say “no” very firmly, and then just leave it there? You can pull the toys out once a day before bedtime (or first thing in the morning). She’ll fuss at first but I suspect that she’ll stop deliberately pushing them under.

      1. Uranus Wars*

        To you and Pocket Mouse I only fish the toys out about once a week (maybe twice). It’s not until I realize all 3 of her toys are missing…she is usually wandering around looking for them or being especially needy towards me.

    3. Pocket Mouse*

      Do you fish it out so she can continue playing with it immediately? Changing the routine so that ‘toy under stove’ equals ‘end of playing with toy for today’ may help.

    4. Goose*

      My lady does that two. Unfortunately my solution was “leave her with a sitter for two weeks” because she hasn’t done that since I’ve been back. I’m planning to plug up under the fridge with some cardboard in case she wants to start up again

    5. The New Wanderer*

      I don’t know if you’re reinforcing the behavior or not – I’m definitely not and yet it’s literally the first thing my cat will do with a new toy! I never fish them out*, and my cat has done that for two years now. Blocking off the area is probably the best option.

      * okay, I have had to after a while because it’s so many things, but I do it when the cat is not around and I move the toys to another room entirely.

      1. Uranus Wars*

        Yes! I don’t do it immediately, just about once a week when I realize they are all missing. I ended up buying weather stripping from Lowe’s yesterday and taping it to the underneath of the drawer. I think that will work and it was a $3 fix!

  43. Coenobita*

    So I know there are folks here who have changed their first names, for a variety of reasons. Has anything like this happened to you?

    My wife is trans, and a few months ago she legally changed her first name in our U.S. state (not the state she was born in). Now she is working through the process of updating various forms of ID, etc., all pretty straightforward. But then she got a new, completely unsolicited birth certificate in the mail. Amusingly (to her and me – I certainly understand that others would not find this amusing!), it has her new/correct first name but her old/incorrect sex marker. How/why does this happen? Does the social security administration automatically tell all the states about name changes??

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      When I changed my first name (in Washington), nothing changed with my birth certificate (issued by Michigan). Or, at least, nobody told ME if anything changed with my birth certificate. Heh. I didn’t particularly care either way if it got updated, I still have the original, but I also wasn’t changing anything else on it at the time.

      1. Coenobita*

        That’s what we assumed would happen! We’re in Virginia and the birth certificate was issued by New York. My wife also was in no hurry to update her birth certificate (maybe she would’ve gotten around to it someday, maybe not) so we were super surprised when it just showed up in the mail one day.

    2. Aphrodite*

      I am in California and used the court petition method to change my full name. I would guess the court notified the state of my change because my birth certificate has been amended (which is what they do). I didn’t have to notify the state. However, I did notify the tax bureau because it missed it and thought I owed some money. Verifying the social security number corrected that quickly.

    3. Generic Name*

      That’s weird that the birth certificate would be re-issued for just a name change. Maybe they goofed and didn’t update the sex? I’ve changed my last name twice, but my birth certificate remained the same. I’d call the records department for the county she was born in and explain what happened and ask if they could reissue the birth certificate with the correct sex. The folks who work there are usually very helpful. I had an issue with my marriage license and I called and the clerk I talked to was wonderful and apologetic and the error got fixed with a minimum of fuss.

      1. name and gender changer*

        Gender markers usually have their own bureaucratic processes to get changed, separate from a name change, even if the name change is “gendered”.

  44. Nicki Name*

    Can anyone recommend a pod-style dishwasher detergent which doesn’t stick to plastic? Ours is great on plates and silverware, but the containers we use for leftovers keep winding up with this sticky residue which has to be hand-scrubbed off.

    1. Jujubee*

      I’ve had luck with Cascade pods and any fancier name brand ones (when I had a crappier dishwasher.) Rinse aid also helped with residue for us.

  45. Ali*

    Cat advice please! I have one cat w a hurt leg who needs to be kept in a room where she can’t jump on anything. This is my bedroom (I disassembled the bed and put the mattress on the floor.) But my other cat will not stop yelling if I am on the other side of a door. He’s used to going in and out of my bedroom all night. If he’s in, he’s restless and just walks in circles and comments all night; if he’s out he stands outside and meows. I can’t keep the door open or the injured cat will get out. What to do? (My uninjured cat has always been a big vocalizer, I wonder if he has some Siamese blood.)

    1. Purt’s Peas*

      Do you have a way to confine the uninjured chatter to a different part of the house at night? Or keep him a little further from your door? I think your best call is probably to keep him outside the bedroom if possible—it’s probably not fun for your injured cat to share her small territory at night, and Mr Chatty doesn’t want to be trapped in a bedroom either.

      Options—muscle through a few nights of bad sleep as the chatty cat learns you won’t let him in when he yells; turn on some white noise to drown him out; reset your routine with him and set him up with something fun.

      1. Ali*

        I could put him in the guest room (I live alone in a 2-br apartment) but I’m afraid he’ll still yell all night and wake the neighbors! On the other hand, they have a dog and play loud music occasionally, so maybe they can just live with it!

        I do think I need to put some energy into resetting routine, and figure out several times to play with him during the day, and really invest in getting him doing some play at those times. (We always try before dinner but he’s usually disinterested.)

    2. A313*

      Before and after my cat had knee surgery, we had to keep her from jumping onto anything, going up/down the stairs, etc. I bought a few sets of a pet corral and joined them together. There was room for a bed, a litterbox, food and water area, and she could walk around some. Initially I had considered an extra-large dog cage, but the corral idea made it so easy to scoop her litter when needed and deal with her food and water bowls. There was a lot of time when I was around, like just watching tv, where she was out of the corral and I could keep an eye on her. The corral also had one section that was a gate, and if I left it open, my other cat would run in and pee in the litterbox (typical younger brother behavior!).

      The brand is Richell, and if your cat isn’t likely to try to jump over the walls/panels, it can be a good option. They are pricey, but they’ve also come in handy for blocking the cats off from parts of the house when needed.

      1. A313*

        I should have pointed out that the injured cat spends their unsupervised time in the pen and overnight and this can allow you to leave your bedroom door open.

        1. Ali*

          I’ll think about this. I do have some friends who are going to lend me a dog crate. I do feel guilty b/c she’s the cat who most often asks for physical contact. Normally she would sleep on the bed the entire night.

          1. A313*

            After her surgery, I did sleep on the floor next to the pen/corral, of course, so I completely understand! The large dog cage ended up being too small to incorporate litterbox, food, water, and kitty bed and made it difficult to scoop the litterbox if it was at the back of the cage and less than ideal if it was at the front, unfortunately, which I hadn’t considered initially — so much easier to just lean over and scoop. Initially, I spent way too much time looking for a litterbox that was big enough but with a very low opening, and finally figured out I could make a cutout exactly the size and where I wanted the entry to be in one of the existing plastic boxes with a utility knife and sending down the cut edges. I hope your kitty heals up quickly!

            For the other kitty, sometimes a routine of a good play session with a wand toy and a big meal can make for a more pleasant overnight. And if he’s hungry at 3 am, maybe a feeder in the kitchen or guest room that opens at a preset time that he comes to understand he can count on; it could even just contain a few treats if that would work better.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      Why can’t the injured one go into the guest bedroom instead? You might have to move some things, but it seems better than dealing with the other one howling because they can’t get it, and whining because they don’t want to be in once they’re there.

      1. Ali*

        The guest bedroom just has an overwhelming amount of jumpable stuff. My bedroom was the only practical room to de-jumpify. Otherwise this would be a good idea, it’s the room she lived in when she first came to us.

    4. Ali*

      Just to clarify, the chatty cat was already a moderate problem before the current situation, so I would love advice on getting him to settle down! Has anyone else had success getting a needy, somewhat anxious chatty cat to regularly calm down?

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        We (and friends of ours) have used the motion sensor spray Pssst! stuff when folks need to shut the bedroom door and get some sleep, yet deter curious and vocal cats. We do leave our bedroom door open for them and they have free reign, but a few times a year the needy boy cat just won’t settle at night and demands snuggles at 2 am or is running in and out. A night or two of a shut bedroom door and the spray out does wonders to retrain them that sleeping with mom and dad is a privilege and not a right.

        However, we do also have plenty of other cat friendly sleep spaces set up – so girl cat puts herself to bed sometimes on the guest bed, which is set up to be cat cozy, or the couch (cat blanky on it) or a large foam pad near a radiator (with an old tshirt to snuggle into). The blankets help them know their “areas” (these are just cheap ikea fleece ones!) and gives them options if their first choice (master bedroom) isn’t available.

      2. violet04*

        The advice I have seen from cat behaviorists is that cats have a hunt, eat, groom, sleep cycle. To help facilitate that pattern, have a heavily active play session right before bed to tire them out and then feed them. After that they should groom and sleep. You could also get bloodwork to check for any issues. Sometimes cat with hyperthyroidism can be restless and vocal.

    5. Dog and cat fosterer*

      You sleep in the guest room?

      I have used a large dog crate, with a comfy spot in the back and the litter and food at the front. I can easily fit everything in there and they have more room than most shelter cages. It is not ideal, but I use it for temporary housing (multiple cats in the same room) or post surgery for cats that can’t jump.

    6. Ali*

      Update from last night: when I didn’t let the uninjured cat into the bedroom at all in the evening, things went smoother. I got a half hour of complaining when I went to bed, and shorter bouts of complaining when I came out to go to the bathroom and went back in, but on the whole I’m pleased! Just gotta keep ignoring.

  46. Cath*

    Could I get perspectives from those who have parented with mild to moderate anxiety/depression? While I’m generally okay at managing and accomplish the things that need to get done, I can struggle with self care and feel overwhelmed by changes/additional responsibilities.

    Basically, it seems like parenting is super hard even in “ideal” circumstances, so I’m wondering how it works for folks like me who have additional hurdles.(Perhaps my biggest worry is that I function poorly when I don’t get a full night’s sleep—but that seems so unrealistic for a parent of a newborn!)

    1. RagingADHD*

      Get support. Not just from a MH care team, but a network of friends & family who can show up and help out in practical ways.

    2. Parenthetically*

      I have two kids, and take a daily antidepressant for moderate anxiety that flared up after my daughter was born.

      Yep, it’s hard, but I don’t have another point of reference for parenting without anxiety/depression, you know? It’s just my life, and I have a good support system in place, a great husband, an excellent doctor, and a large bottle of Zoloft in the cupboard. The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that every stage is SO different and requires SUCH different approaches, but the flip side of that is that no matter how hard a particular stage is, not only does it also come with its own joys, but it’s also extremely fleeting. I definitely worried a lot about the sleep aspect, but it feels very different in my experience to be up caring for a child vs. up with ordinary insomnia.

      I focus on science- and research-based parenting so I don’t just react to my kids out of my anxiety — I have amassed a LOT of tools to help me anticipate and prepare for normal brain development and behavioral things, which has been hugely helpful to me.

    3. Might Be Spam*

      I’ve had depression most of my life. I took parenting classes or went to parent groups all the way from birth to the end of high school. It really helped me to have the perspective of the variety of “normal” behavior and finding healthy ways of responding to issues.

      Unfortunately I didn’t realize how disfunctional my marriage was and how it stressed my children. The family therapist didn’t recognize my ex’s personality disorder, nowadays I hope that they are more aware. I still think family therapy can be helpful. Please be aware that “acting out” and anger can be a child’s way of dealing with a parent’s disfunctional behavior. I call it a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. My kids knew that I loved them and that helped.

    4. Natalie*

      Probably the biggest help in my experience has been the work I did on myself to develop strategies to manage and treat my anxiety. It can also be good to recognize your own triggers and make sure that your support system won’t exacerbate them. So, for example, I avoided getting a baby monitor that tracks a bunch of measurements, because I know that kind of tracking tends to become obsessive for me. If meds are helpful for you, many of them are pregnancy/breastfeeding safe.

      Finding a reasonably level headed, research based source of information has also been extremely helpful. As Parenthetically said you want to know what’s developmentally normal so you aren’t spiraling about stuff that’s going to resolve itself.

      Regarding the sleep – one thing to keep in mind is that the first month or two isn’t going to be anything like your current daily life, don’t think about how you would handle today on limited sleep. You’re just on a completely different time table. Sometimes I felt like every waking period between the baby’s nap was one day. You can also make specific decisions such as bottle feeding that can allow you to sleep for longer stretches.

    5. allathian*

      Get support from somewhere. You don’t have to do this alone. I was utterly exhausted following an extended pregnancy, I had an induction booked for the Monday when my son was born on the Saturday before at 41+5 weeks, following 24 hours of active labor. I count myself lucky in that my MIL, who had retired early for health reasons, was able to help me almost daily in the beginning. My son was also born underweight and hypoglycemic, which meant that he spent two days in NICU with a glucose saline drip, so I didn’t get to keep him next to me from the start like most new moms. His birth weight was not allowed to drop at all and he got donated mother’s milk in the hospital (thanks to all milk donor moms!). I did try and breastfeed him, but he was partly bottle-fed all the time, because I just didn’t have enough milk for him. He basically weaned himself off me at 16 weeks. But it did help that my husband, who can fall asleep at the drop of a hat, took care of some of the night feeds so I could sleep.

      I wasn’t depressed exactly, but I did feel like I wasn’t able to enjoy life with my son as much as I otherwise would have, because I was simply so tired.

      Are you a single parent or are you coparenting? You don’t mention a spouse or parent who could care for the baby at least some of the time. If you live with your baby’s other parent, please let them carry their share of the load! It’s actually odd, but my husband was the one who put the first diaper on our son, and he had to show me how to do it. I caught on quickly, but I think that helped make us more equal parents, even though I was in a baby bubble for weeks after giving birth.

  47. Me*

    How do I get convince my hubs that we need to use a realtor? Like a specific realtor.

    We’ve lived here for 18 years and are seriously considering moving. I reached out to someone in the neighborhood that is a realtor a few months back and discussed the process. She came up with an analysis of the possible selling price. We never signed with her as the house we were looking at is one we ultimately decided against.

    Our neighborhood is a bit weird in that the boundaries are the school district boundaries. Small neighborhood, small district. Very sought after schools. There aren’t a lot of comparable homes as many folks tear down old homes to build new big high end homes and we just have a normal sized remodeled farmhouse basically. Two houses down from us sold their normal sized home (like our size) in about a day, right after they posted the sign but before it went on the web. The house right up the hill from us (a next door neighbor) sold their normal sized home before a sign was posted or it went on the web. All that in the past month.

    I’m hopeful that our house would also sell quickly. Which brings me to the question- how do I convince hubs to go with the person that’s already put in the work? We have an acquaintance that sells homes in the city but not this neighborhood. He doesn’t know this neighborhood. She does, as she lives here and sells homes here all the time.

    I’m not sure how to convince him. Her rate structure seems sound- declining rate for faster sale. I think a barrier for hubs is the fact that we have to pay any realtor a percent of the sale price. I see it as $ well earned through staging and marketing. I hate to burn that bridge with her. (Then again we would be moving out of state and certainly the neighborhood)

    Any suggestions?

    1. SpellingBee*

      Does your husband want to have the acquaintance realtor handle it instead of the neighbor realtor? If he’s resistant to the idea of using a realtor at all, maybe point out that they’ll handle the whole thing – marketing, showing, negotiating, preparing the contracts, etc. For us it’s been money well spent every time. A really good realtor is worth their weight in gold. If he’s resistant to just the idea of the neighbor realtor, I’d keep focusing on the fact that the neighbor realtor knows the area and may even have people who contact her specifically about houses in your neighborhood, since it sounds like it’s in demand and there isn’t much inventory in the area.

      Good luck with your selling and moving! I hate the whole process, but a quick sale certainly eases the pain.

    2. Wishing You Well*

      You might not be able to convince your husband to hire this realtor.
      You might feel obligated to her for working without a contract but you don’t HAVE to hire her. You could release your emotional obligation by giving her a gratuity instead of signing up with her – just a thought if your husband won’t budge.
      If you do a FSBO, especially in a hot market and when moving out of state, hire a lawyer to help you with all that paperwork.
      Best of Luck

    3. Beans are green*

      I’m so glad we used a realtor to sell. Our buyer didn’t have a realtor and had a million asks, and we wouldn’t have known which were reasonable. The buyer had really mixed emotions about moving and our realtor ended up serving as a pseudo counselor to them. So that can be another reason to use a realtor: the less contact with potential buyers, the less drama!

    4. tangerineRose*

      There are a LOT of details with selling a house, and getting an experienced realtor can really help. Maybe if your husband has more of an idea of the details he’d want someone who knows the neighborhood?

    5. Generic Name*

      So your husband wants to do a for sale by owner but you want to go with a realtor? I’d suggest to him that if he doesn’t want to get a realtor, then he can do all the work of listing a house. If he doesn’t want to do the work, is he expecting you to do all the work?

      1. Traffic_Spiral*

        This is a good idea – he’ll probably give up after fielding the first dozen useless calls.

        Also, you can present it as math. The realtor can get you a higher price, so really it’s more money for you, even subtracting the commission.

    6. Venus*

      There are so many stories of inexperienced people who get in trouble when buying or selling their home themselves, because they want to save a few dollars yet don’t have any experience. If you lived in a popular area and were experienced with selling and had kept detailed notes each time about what the realtor did then *maybe* it would be a good idea to sell it yourselves. Also, I would choose a realtor based on skill, as I have known several people who were pressured into using a realtor in their family or someone from church, and it failed spectacularly. The house didn’t budge for the 2-3 months of their signed contract, and then suddenly it sold for the right price when they got a realtor with good references.

      Housing is a very expensive part of our lives, so why do people want to save a few dollars to take such a big risk?!

  48. Texan In Exile*

    The question about the kids’ menu made me think of another “I didn’t know I didn’t know” issue.

    It wasn’t until I read “The Privileged Poor: How Elite Colleges Are Failing Disadvantaged Students,” by Anthony Abraham Jack, that I realized professors’ office hours were for more than just asking very specific, focused questions about the material. It even took me while after I got to college to understand that office hours weren’t just literally when the professor was physically in her office.

    It wasn’t until I read the book that I discovered that some students use office hours just to hang out with profs, for profs to get to know them so they can write recommendations, etc.

    I would never have dared just to hang out with a prof. I would never have dared to do anything more but ask a very specific question and then leave because how dare I waste an adult’s time like that? I think I went to a prof’s office hours maybe twice in my entire college career?

    So my question is:

    Did you know what “office hours” meant when you got to college? And if so, did you take advantage of them? And how did you know what they were? I didn’t know I didn’t know, so it never occurred to me to ask for more information.

    1. merope*

      This is a really important question and one I have seen raised before. Yes, “office hours” is confusing, especially to first generation college students. Some instructors have changed the language to “student hours,” hoping that will clarify the purpose of that specific time slot.

    2. My Brain Is Exploding*

      I did NOT know that until just now, and I went to a small college and then professional school!

      1. Alex*

        Same! And I don’t come from an underprivileged background at all. I thought office hours were for getting extra help and asking questions. It never occurred to me to just go “hang” with a professor.

        That said I was always too shy/embarrassed/insecure to attend office hours regardless.

        1. tangerineRose*

          My parents are college grads, and I never knew this either. I went to office hours to ask questions, never to hang out.

      2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        I didn’t get this memo either… and my father WAS a professor! Albeit in the fine arts so his office hours were a little different.

        I still would have been too shy to show up, though. How does this work in classes of hundreds for some entry courses, or is it more for grad school? I really got to know my thesis advisors at least.

        Then again, I never really got the memo on “how to kiss ass” in the corporate world either. Is this related? :D

    3. Coenobita*

      I don’t think I did, BUT I went to a teaching-focused liberal arts school where the profs were very intentional about explaining things like this from the get-go. Especially in my major department (where the department was its own building, so the profs’ offices were down the hall from the student lounge/computer lab where we spent all our time), us students were in and out of the profs’ offices constantly and we’d run into them at the coffee machine, etc.

      My junior year I was really depressed and basically used my one prof’s office hours as free therapy (I more or less just hung out there as long as no other students showed up). I realize now that was not ok for a lot of reasons but he was so generous with his time and it really meant a lot to me.

      1. pancakes*

        Same – I’m sure I didn’t know this when I got there, but my undergrad school assigned everyone a don their first year, and you’d meet with them at least monthly whether you had specific questions or not. It may have been weekly. We also did a sort of independent study for each class that required one-on-one work with the profs, so there really wasn’t room to hide even if you wanted to. I’m inclined to think schools that let students disappear into big classes and infrequent contact with their profs are doing them a disservice, but more individualized attention is wildly expensive.

    4. Grapey*

      My undergrad professors all stressed in freshman 101 classes that office hours were THE place to ask questions.

      They said things early on like they were far less likely to entertain extra credit requests at grading season if they never saw our face at office hours before. So yeah, that lit a fire under me at least to go and see what they were all about. I got to know my professors and fellow students – we often went to OH as a group like “we tried to figure out XYZ but this example from lecture doesn’t make sense.”

      I’ve heard of “drop-in hours”, which I like more than office hours or student hours.

    5. Filosofickle*

      I’m pretty sure I didn’t go to OH just to hang out or chat much or at all; I would have only gone in if I actually needed to talk about the subject matter or a situation. That time was there for all students and I shouldn’t hog it. But I always naturally made friends with teachers/professors from childhood through graduate school. I often sought them out before/after class to connect, inventing a lot of reasons to talk to them because I wanted to hear their ideas. Since you bring up recommendations, I believe that my motivation was simply knowing them, not positioning myself politically so they’d know and advocate for me.

      I’ve signed up to be a mentor to a first-gen college student. The nuances of office hours is the kind of thing they want us to help with. I was super entitled, in a good way — I knew I deserved to be in college, that the professors and system were there for me, and that if there was a problem I could get help. I’m hoping to pass some of that to someone who doesn’t know that.

    6. fhqwhgads*

      I did not know that until now, and by most definitions, I was a fairly privileged (third generation) college student. I almost wonder if this might vary by school and/or prof, I’m so gobsmacked by the concept.

    7. Jackalope*

      I didn’t know about office hours for my entire college career. I sometimes had teachers who would have us drop off rough drafts or even our final papers during their office hours, and I had a couple of times when I had a meeting with, for example, my advisor, that looking back probably happened during office hours. Nothing beyond that, though.

    8. curly sue*

      I didn’t know about office hours as an undergrad. I had a vague concept that they could be gone to, but I was anxious and easily intimidated – there was no way in hell I would beard a lion in her den that way.

      Now that I’m a prof, I encourage students to use office hours for class- and program-related discussions, which can definitely be more than specific questions about the assignments. I’ve had students come in to show me neat artifacts, chew over project ideas for other related classes, and get grad school advice. I would not recommend going ‘just to hang out.’ What I find happens is that other students come by, see that you’re with someone, and vaporize — so if one student is monopolizing my time for things that aren’t in my purview, others miss their chance to, say, go over their last quiz. I encourage students to make specific appointments, partly because of that.

      That being said, when we were in-person, I kept kleenex and chocolate in my desk and have offered anxious students a quiet place to hide around the corner (L-shaped office) when they needed to decompress.

      On the other hand, don’t be the student who showed up with their SO at the end of my office hours and proceeded to “hang out” for the next hour, just… talking. And talking. I heard all about their family dramas, their landlord issues, new medical interventions and drug regimes… I couldn’t get a word in edgewise. I finally had to make up an appointment in a different building so that I could escape, and they followed me, still talking, out of the building and down the street. So there are limits.

    9. Nicki Name*

      I didn’t. Working in educational software a few years ago was a huge eye-opener for me, because the company I worked for was pushing hard to help support first-generation college students, and reading about the issues they face, I recognized the exact same struggles I’d had.

      There is a ton of cultural information about attending college that has traditionally only been passed along informally. If you don’t come from a family which already has a supply of college graduates (and is good at passing along info like this), then you never learn any of it. This is a problem that a lot of colleges have been trying to tackle lately.

    10. Rosie M. Banks*

      I’m a professor, thought I don’t teach at an elite college, and perhaps things are different there. I wish more students came to my office hours, but I do expect them to come with a purpose. I can read a paper draft, give advice on studying for a test, go over the results of a quiz, or recommend a book on some topic we covered in class. I do a lot of advising for our majors and minors, as well. I’ve often talked to students in crisis, and given them tissues and a referral to the counseling center. But if a student showed up just wanting to hang out with me, I would find that very odd. I have never worked anywhere that saw office hours in that light.

      2. ....*

        Yeah I don’t think office hours means come hang out with no purpose. Maybe there’s a reason no one “knew” this

      3. Zooey*

        Same as a current university lecturer. I do encourage my personal tutees to come and update me periodically on how they’re getting on (though they rarely do so outside occasions where I specifically schedule that meeting) but really I expect my ‘consultation and feedback’ hours to be used for specific questions .

        I do wonder though if this is more a difference about how people interact once they’re there, not what they attend for? I do tend to find students come with a question and then they might stay and chat if there’s no one else waiting. But some students might feel that this is not ok and they need to just confine themselves to something very specific?

        I have to say I have had one student who liked to just come and ‘hang out’ and it was a nightmare! I don’t think most university lecturers have time for loads of long chats! I am a naturally chatty person so I am generally welcoming to students and not watching the clock when I meet with them, but equally it’s not like during office hours I’m just sitting waiting for people to turn up. I’m getting on with other stuff – it’s just that in office hours I’ll drop it immediately if a student comes, whereas at other times I might ask them to come back another time.

    11. CTT*

      I didn’t know that going in, but I went to a small (public!) liberal arts college that heavily emphasized 15-person seminars, and it was typical to have close relationships with one or two professors through that, and most of them had a semi-open door policy if they weren’t teaching class from 9 to 5 (not a free-for-all, but if they were available, you could stop in). I still generally tried to make appointments ahead of time, but sometimes if I was in the building for a class and remembered a question I needed to ask, I might stop by, especially when I was working on my capstone research project.

      And FWIW, the law school I went to was stricter about office hours being a set time, but I wonder if that had more to do with preparing us for getting used to scheduling meetings? Or maybe all the profs had strict schedules they liked to keep to, I’m not sure.

      1. pancakes*

        Yes. There was one prof at my law school notorious for further limiting his office hours by always keeping a large stack of papers, files, and books in the only chair a visitor might sit in. You could talk to him, and I did once, but you’d have to stand.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yeah, I am reading this and thinking where are all these profs that are available for chatting?

    12. aubrey*

      My parents were the first in their families to go to college, and I thought office hours were just for getting specific help on an assignment you didn’t understand etc. Since I had bad anxiety but was a great student, I literally never went to them in undergrad. I had no idea other students just hung out with profs until I needed recommendation letters for grad school and most of my profs didn’t know who I was. And then even in grad school I would never just randomly show up at office hours.

    13. lazy intellectual*

      I had this same exact problem. It wasn’t until well after college and grad school that I understood what the implications of office hours were. I’m not a first generation college student technically, but my parents are from another country where the culture is very different. Also…not sure how to accurately explain this, but both my parents and I are socially awkward people. It wasn’t until well after I moved out of the house that I realized that my parents – who were otherwise supportive – didn’t do the best job of teaching me social norms.

    14. KeinName*

      I was a first generation student and worked as a professor for 5 years and did not know this :-) Although I am not in the US and education is free here so students expect less ‚service ‚ and are not being treated like paying customers. I‘ve routinely offered that I can be approached for content related questions, via email or prior appointment. However, it might be a smart move to show up to office hours, but I would expect genuine study course related questions.

    15. OyHiOh*

      I had NO idea, until decades after I gave up on college!

      I’m white, my parents are white/middle class/college educated (one parent has a Masters, the other left a Master’s program a thesis short of completion)s and I finished high school with the sure and certain expectation that I would get a college degree. But somehow, somewhere, the secrets of how to thrive in a liberal arts college environment (my parents HAVE liberal arts degrees!) did not get handed off to me and it never occured to me to ask if there was a different way to do things.

    16. Chaordic One*

      I didn’t consciously know that was a thing, at least not at the time, but, in retrospect it turned out to be the case. Whenever I visited a professor during office hours it was with a course-related issue of some sort, but these visits did sometimes turn into meaningful exchanges where other issues were discussed and a lot of invaluable mentoring went on.

    17. HannahS*

      Oh my gosh I had no idea until just now! I…did not take advantage of it, unless I had a really specific question. And both my parents are university-educated. But I attended a giant commuter school that was in the middle of an industrial area, so the majority of students were not hanging around on campus.

    18. Texan In Exile*

      I found a few articles about Anthony Abraham Jack. He didn’t know what office hours were, either, when he got to college. The whole part about building a relationship with faculty – I didn’t even go to office hours to ask questions! I didn’t think that’s what professors were for. I thought it was on me to figure it all out and if I couldn’t, it was my own stupid fault.

      “His research reveals a gap in cultural capital between the privileged poor—those well-versed in the hidden language of office hours and how to build relationships with faculty—and the doubly disadvantaged, who only know environments in which help is seldom offered or available.”

      “He suggested that faculty clearly explain to all their students at the beginning of the term what office hours are, and why every student should take advantage of them.”

      https://www.bowdoin.edu/news/2020/02/anthony-jack.html

      “Other advice he shared with High Schoolers was to: seek counseling when needed and reach out for support; make full use of office hours to have a developmental network”

      “Jack said college professors should help all students decipher the “coded language” of higher education by defining words and phrases like “office hours” in their syllabi and discussing in class what office hours are and how students can use them.”

      https://www.usn.org/news-detail?pk=1074897#

    19. Casey*

      Current college senior here — people told me I could just “hang out” with professors at their office hours, but I was always nervous about how to initiate that kind of interaction. Half the time I just end up talking to them about school politics. We’re a tiny school with probably fewer boundaries than there should be, so once a math professor spent 30 minutes telling me about the intricacies of union negotiations. The other half of the time is getting advice on/ complaining about my job search.

    20. sparkly pink toad*

      I wonder how discipline specific this is? I was in academia for 25 years from undergraduate tobeing a professor. Office hours were: time when profs promised to be in their offices to answer class-specific questions. Occasionally, a broader question would come up. It was never a place to “hang out”. If I had been asked to write a letter of recommendation, based solely on knowing a student through class or office hours – as opposed to research jobs – attending the office hours really wouldn’t have mattered. If it matters, my discipline is science.

    21. Urban Prof*

      I’m a professor, and I was a first-generation college student, so I completely understand it when students don’t automatically know what resources and opportunities they might take advantage of. (I went to a fancy liberal arts college and learned early on to visit my professors during office hours, but I teach at an urban university, and the student experience here is very different from my own.)

      For this very reason, on every syllabus for every class I teach, I list my “student hours.” That’s what many professors call them now, instead of “office hours.” And during the first week of class, and again around mid-term, I remind my students that the student hours are for them, and that they should drop by if they have the time and the inclination.

      However, with everything being online now, I’ve instituted weekly, regularly-scheduled optional Zoom meet-ups for my students to drop into. It’s not quite the same.

    22. More Coffee Please*

      I was an engineering major, and office hours when I went were very much “10 students crowd a professor’s tiny office trying to get help on impossible homework problems.” There weren’t often opportunities to just chat with the professor unless you caught them at a department event. I should have gone to way more of those, but I was intimidated!

    23. Anne H*

      Like a few of the other commenters, I’m also a professor, and I wouldn’t say that office hours are a time to “hang out” with faculty. I encourage my students to come to office hours, whether it’s to ask a question, get help on a paper, discuss how to do better on exams, want to talk more about a topic we didn’t spend much time on or they find interesting, etc., but I do expect them to come for a specific purpose—if a student stopped by office hours without any real reason I would find that weird. I think what I didn’t know as an undergrad, and what I wish my students really understood, is that you can go to office hours just because you want to know more about a topic than was covered in class. Some of what it sounds like Jack is talking about with respect to “hanging out” is probably (I hope!) more of that nature—if your book mentions something you think is interesting but you want to learn more, or a professor makes an offhanded comment in class you find thought-provoking, YES, office hours are also for THAT. I definitely didn’t really understand that in college, and I wish I had.

  49. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I have a question that I would never have asked pre-COVID! I would like to invest in a nice new notebook. Ordinarily I would browse local stationery stores, but I’m not doing much shopping these days. Here’s what I want:
    – Cloth-bound, preferably a nice color, maybe an interesting pattern
    – Not ring-bound
    – Ruled pages
    – Lies FLAT when opened (this is absolutely critical for me)
    – Paper that stands up to my Pilot Precise rollerball pens

    I’m willing to spend. Moleskine has a few nice ones, but I’m curious about other options. Bonus points if anyone knows any local DC stationers; I’m willing to look in person but trying to keep the browsing and touching to a minimum.

    Any ideas?

    1. nep*

      I recall a while back hearing an interview w someone who does bespoke planners. Maybe search ‘bespoke notebooks’ on Etsy? Not sure how much more expensive if custom, but might be worth a look.

    3. Reba*

      Oh, you have to go to Jenni Bick! If you are into paper and journals, maybe you know it already?
      They sell fine notebooks and also have fancy/arty handbound journals. I went in recently and was the only customer in the store at that moment, and I felt ok with their precautions. But it also looks like their online stock is pretty comprehensive.

      I’m into the Leuchtturms these days.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Thank you! I haven’t lived here long enough to have found this place and it looks lovely! I’ll check it out.

  50. Cheerful but Confused Giver*

    Charitable giving thread! What are some great ones? (Let’s not derail and discuss “bad”ones.) Had anyone heard of RIP Debt? I just read about it (they buy aggregates of medical debt and then pay it off). How do you decide who to give to (assuming the financials are ok)? What are you doing different this year? We regularly give to our church (which supports an orphanage, food pantry, homeless shelter, etc.) This year we’ve also given food to the food pantry, new underwear to a different shelter, money to a black owned business that was damaged during protests, and money to an organization that usually provides tutoring and other help to black students in a very disadvantaged part of the city. That money will be used to buy Christmas presents for the kids. This is always a bit of a conundrum… Because money for toys v. money for food? There’s a local animal charity we like, but same conundrum. And a great local charity we often give to that meets those one-time needs that people who are hard hit have that gets them back on solid ground (a month’s rent or a big car repair bill; not longer-term needs that other organizations address).

    1. Wishing You Well*

      I give to many charities but most of my giving this year is to my state’s food bank. I recommend before giving big donations, check out the charity with Charity Navigator or another charity rating service. There are too many worthy charities to list!

    2. Almost Academic*

      I would really encourage donations to your local or state crisis/suicide hotline. Unfortunately these services are usually drastically underfunded by local and federal governments, and many have been forced to close after operating in the red for one too many years. Most people assume that they receive federal funding and thus are find, no need to donate when this is absolutely not true. Especially given COVID and the amount of recent increases in calls, many of these centers are hurting for funding. I always donate to a few key ones in different states that I know do great work, and encourage others to do this as well! It is usually more impactful than a general donation to the larger suicide prevention organizations (e.g., AFSP, AAS).

    3. Coenobita*

      I’ve been seeking out smaller, hyper-local groups, including those that might not have their 501c3 yet or are mutual aid-focused rather than charity-focused. It takes some more research/relationship-building because you can’t just click on Charity Navigator or whatever to see what they’re up to, but I think my smallish contributions go a lot farther for them and it’s helping me feel more connected to my community during this weird time. For example, our city’s big mutual aid facebook group does a cash request post weekly, and folks who need money can post their venmo or gofundme or whatever. I’ve been picking a couple of those personal fundraisers each week and making small contributions. I’ve also upped my regular donation to the city’s food bank and to a local org that distributes emergency money/makes one-time payments similar to the one you described in your post.

      This year for the first time, I made myself a giving goal along with my savings goal (wanted to donate X% of my salary) and it’s actually been really fun finding causes to donate to throughout the year. It weirdly scratches the same itch for me as shopping – like retail therapy, except it’s money better spent and you don’t end up with stuff you don’t need. :)

    4. Inefficient Cat Herder*

      We are giving to the local and State food banks, much more than usual. And for gifts for Christmas I asked for donations to food banks. There is just so much need this year!

    5. LuisainDallas*

      I highly recommend World Central Kitchen. Chef Jose Andres and his team feed people for free all over the world during crisis situations. They are masters of logistics and get the job done by utilizing local food and partnering with local chefs/restaurants, which means that they are supporting the local economy. Check out their Facebook page; you will be impressed.

    6. Glass Piano*

      Partners in Health is a really incredible organization which strengthens local health systems in developing countries! PIH focuses a lot on community partnerships (listening to people about what they actually need) and creating systems that are internally sustainable.

    7. Girasol*

      Doctors Without Borders seem to be efficient in using donation money and they’re certainly appropriate now.

    8. Forensic13*

      I’m a big fan of charities that work with dealing with bail issues—not only does it help immediately, but money can be “recycled” as people uphold their return to court and the bail is refunded.

    9. Tis the season*

      This year we gave to the food bank, our local community centre, the organization in town that provides healthcare within the shelter system, the local chapter of the Elizabeth Fry Society, and the Black Girl Hockey Club (which isn’t local to us but is an amazing organization that sponsors Black girls to play hockey, traditionally a sport with many barriers to entry).

  51. Randomity*

    I am not on board with Christmas this year. I want to ignore it completely and pretend it isn’t happening. The idea of it being Christmas without being able to see my friends and go out and have fun makes me want to cry and I don’t want to think about it at all. It is really painful for me to be alone at this time of year. Three years on from leaving the ex i didn’t expect to have found my new person, but I expected to feel like it might be a possibility one day, but covid has knackered all that :(

    However, I have a child, and completely ignoring Christmas would not be fair on him.

    Telling myself I have to suck it up and get Christmassy isn’t helping, it’s just making me even more resistant. Help! How can I get past this and make myself get at least a little bit organised? Even if I can’t feel Christmassy I need to order some presents and food and decorate and I can’t even make myself do that :(

    1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      How old is your kid? If kid is really young, Christmas can be very simple – kids under 5 often like unwrapping and the box something came in better than the toy. If older, ask kid what his favorite part is – maybe he really likes Christmas pancakes but doesn’t care about decorating and invest your energy accordingly.

      1. Randomity*

        He’s 9. I’ve already talked to him about what Christmas Eve and Christmas Day will look like and we’ve got a plan for those. It’s the rest that’s the problem :(

        1. Not A Manager*

          I think at 9 he’s old enough to cooperate with you on this. I would literally tell him what you told us – that you’re a bit sad about Christmas not being as usual, and that as an adult you’d be okay skipping it but you know that he might feel differently. Ask him how you and he can make the holiday fun for him without making it more sad for you.

          My immediate recommendation would be to set aside a clear time for Christmas stuff. Maybe the 23rd through the 26th. Plan with him how you will decorate and what you will do to make that time really special, but before that there is No Christmas.

          Then, starting on the 23rd, I would lean into it. For me, the way in would not be “Christmas” but rather “special time with child.” Bake cookies together, listen to Christmas music, decorate a tree or the part of your house, etc. You can also do fun special things that aren’t especially holiday-oriented. Plan an epic video game battle, or get a big jigsaw puzzle or lego set that you’ll put together over that time. Some way to make those few days special and different for him (and hopefully for you, too).

          I’m sorry the holidays are hard this year. I hope that you and your child are able to find a nice way to connect and enjoy them.

          2. CTT*

            Nine year olds are still really young and not up to managing a parent’s emotions. I think it’s important to say the first part, about being sad about it not being Christmas as usual, but I worry that the latter will make him worry that it’s his responsibility to not make his parent sad.

            1. Randomity*

              Yep good point. He knows I’ve got depression and anxiety and I make a point of making sure he knows neither of these things are either A) his fault or B) his responsibility. I will be careful how I talk about this.

          3. Anon for this*

            “ that as an adult you’d be okay skipping it but you know that he might feel differently. Ask him how you and he can make the holiday fun for him without making it more sad for you.”

            This is making a nine year old feel guilty about wanting Christmas and being responsible for his parent’s mental health. Please do not do this.

    2. RagingADHD*

      For the first Christmas after losing my Mom, it felt strange and awful. But we wanted to participate somehow, and have something to enjoy & be happy about.

      So we deliberately made it a wierd Christmas. We looked for new or offbeat things to do that were Christmassy but NOT part of our family traditions – different food, different activities, different music.

      It was actually kind of great.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I like this idea of making it a weird Christmas. I think younger me would not have cared so much about Christmas but more about are we going to do things together? For example, you could decide that the two of you will make a pizza together. You might be able to engage him more by telling him he gets to pick out the toppings.
        I think it’s okay to forget Christmas as long as you haven’t forgotten him. You could even say, “Let’s do stuff that we never did before and may not ever do again. Let’s mix things up a bit this year, what would you like to do?”

      2. I think I'll put this in a card to my brother & sister*

        My dad died in early December when I was 10. My mother’s elderly mother had died a few weeks before. Needless to say mom wasn’t up for Christmas.
        And yet my family made it work. My grandfather bought us the first artificial tree any of us had had, and he got me to help set it up. I think that was the year mom bought a nativity set and let me set it out–it became MY thing for the holiday. The other fun surprise was when my (much older) brother & sister brought in what felt like a Santa bag of toys–in retrospect it was all cheap little things like Silly Putty, but the sheer volume was memorable fun. The best part though? They played with me & my new toys afterwards.

    3. Dancing Otter*

      Don’t focus on “feeling” Christmassy, but on actual actions.

      Make a list of what you usually do for the holiday season, then mark it up: critical; nice; no way. Break things in pieces, if appropriate (some cookies, not fifteen different kinds).

      Turn your pared-down list into action items. Consider timing, whether you want to spread it out or do everything in a concentrated but limited time period.

      Basically, you’re turning it into a project plan, just as you’d do for work or home improvements. It’s not about how you feel; it’s about these ## items on the To Do list.

      Who knows, maybe doing the Christmas things will make you feel more Christmassy.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        My 80 something friend and I talk about this, we never feel Christmassy any more. She thinks because it’s a kid thing anyway.
        Looking back what killed it for both of us was the unending list of things we were “supposed” to do. It became a check the boxes thing that never quite got finished. Ha! She timed how long it took everyone to eat. Two days of cooking and everyone was done eating in 20 minutes. They scattered, she cleaned up. Oh what fun.

        For me, it’s the dump of presents. “Here ya go, I am making up for ignoring you all year…”. Then I have a pile of stuff I can’t or won’t use.

        What do you like to do? What do you place a high value on? Try to work some of these things into your plan of what you will do.

        1. Randomity*

          Haha, the first year I’d left my husband I thought about what Christmas food I wanted and cooked that and only that for my Christmas meal. It was great.

          I’ve asked the kid what he wants for his Christmas meal, told him he can have anything he wants, and apparently that’s a baked potato with beans and cheese, a Yorkshire pudding and some frozen peas (still frozen -apparently this is seasonal because they are cold). If that’s what he wants most in the world, that’s what I will make him!

          1. Something Blue*

            That’s great! Does he eat the frozen peas individually like popcorn? (I’m trying to visualize how to eat frozen food.)

            At 9, I probably would have wanted macaroni and cheese.

            I still might!

          2. RagingADHD*

            My kids preferred frozen peas still frozen for the longest time!

            I assumed it was a holdiver from toddlerhood, because I used to get extra veggies into them by letting them gob on frozen winter squash, peas, soft fruits, etc.

    4. Laura H.*

      I get this way with other seasons (religious ones especially- there are years when Lent doesn’t feel like Lent, and I can’t get all the way into what’s asked of me spiritually) though not nearly as bad.

      I want to stress this: it’s okay to not feel it- and you don’t need to make an effort for yourself in this case.

      However, you are in charge of your mental wellness and your emotions. You can say “Christmas is weird this year” without placing an unintended burden on kiddo.

      For you to consider:

      How do you practice self-care?

      What are some fun things to do that might be holiday-spirit inducing, but won’t be a huge letdown if it’s not? My thoughts are baking cookies and maybe a movie or two (I have staples that I watch yearly even if I’m not feeling Christmassy, and they warm my heart at the very least)

      Have you spoken with someone about this feeling? (Messaging, phone call or in person work for this)

      And lastly, are you being gentle with yourself or beating yourself up over it? It’s not easy this year and again, it’s ok not to feel it this year. It’s been difficult on a lot of different fronts.

      1. Randomity*

        Haha, I’d put money on it that beating myself up about it is a big part of the problem :-| I’m struggling with a lot of stuff right now and it’s all completely overwhelming and I don’t really have anyone who feels like they are there for me for either emotional or practical support – and the only family member I have locally is moving away in the next 6 months and I’m absolutely gutted.

        Work is the only bright spot in general but I’ve also had one of those weeks where everything has gone wrong and it’s really not helping.

    5. Sunflower*

      Can you do activities that aren’t necessarily 100% Christmas related- maybe more winter themed? Ice skating? We have a Christmas village set up with tons of small businesses. One has this giant cheese wheel that is super cool to watch- use that as a chance to try some cool exciting foods. Personally, a lot of the traditional Christmas stuff I find kind of boring and I think kids might too (Tree lightings, looking at Christmas lights on houses).

      I have never been a fan of the holidays and am kind of looking forward this year to not having to answer why I’m single/when I’ll meet someone and use this time how I want to spend it (I’m extroverted so I’m also struggling with not being able to go out and about). I’m really indulging in the cozy, lazy parts of the holiday season like lighting tons of Winter scented candles.

      You kid has had a weird year so I’m sure he’s expecting Christmas to be no different! I’d talk to your kid and present it in a more ‘We’re in a pandemic so of course Christmas is going to look different this year! What do you want to try to do especially’ and then focus and try to make that work for him.

      Really focus on yourself in your down time- don’t watch sappy Christmas movies if they make you upset. Are you connecting virtually with your friends? Make that a priority and don’t be afraid to lean on your support system more than usual.

  52. Keymaster of Gozer*

    Cat owners please!

    I have a 6 year old (ish, he’s a rescue) very neurotic moggy who generally hates all humans and other cats but is ok with me and my husband after a long period of building trust.

    Generally he snuggles up next to me and falls asleep. But every so often he’ll go wide eyed, start staring at my face, softly yowl and start creeping closer. If I don’t get up and go get a toy for him he’ll attack me. Only me though!

    Obviously want to stop being randomly afraid of my (otherwise supremely lazy) kitty attacking me. Ideas?

    1. Purt’s Peas*

      See if you can figure out the behavior that comes before the Silly Time antics. Even if you can’t, the instant you start to see him do that stuff, change something about the situation—maybe he gets booted off the couch, or you move to a different spot. Or, you choose some harmless behavior that he does in the lead-up to biting as the real “play with me” signal that you’ll actually respond to—like, reliably play with him a bit when he perks up, or does a stretch yo recognize, or gives a meow. Right now him saying “play now” doesn’t work but him saying “play now (bite)” works every time, and is a fun game for its own sake.

      1. The Time Being*

        Agreed with all of this. My cat does something similar — there’s a short but visible wind-up from chilling to knife paws whirlwind. Kitty needs stimulation and play! I usually pull on my old fencing glove and wrestle with her a bit if I have the time, but if I don’t, I’ll pull sharply away from her when she starts giving those warning signals. Then she’ll go attack her toys instead.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I can’t tell if this is play or if this is something else.

      You could redirect with your words, “Where’s your toy?” and grab the toy to show him what to do with his energy burst. It sounds like it could be an energy burst, “I slept. So now I want to play hard because I feel rested.”

      If this is pure meanness, then I would use an angry face and wag my finger, “No. You don’t do that to me!”

      My dog has energy bursts after sleeping. I hear play growls, (growls that are non-threatening and indicate I want to play) and he starts bouncing around. The problem is he does this at odd times and he plays rough, it’s in his breed. He does body slams and jumps etc. I redirect him to his toys and we play with the toys until he tires out. Then he goes back to Mr. Lovey.

      My odd suggestion is to initiate play time yourself. Pretty much you are teaching her how to play and how to play without hurting. I had to do this with my dog. Even now if he gets too rough, I get up and walk away. He’s 12 so now I walk away maybe once a year. As a pup, I probably walked away at least once a day. We’d try again later.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer*

        From describing it, I think he wants play fighting. Although he loves laser pointers that doesn’t give him anything to bite and kick so I’ll tie up a larger toy in a dressing gown cord and keep it to hand.

        William is about the size of a small dog (over 12kg) so likely does need more ore playtime than I’m used to with cats to burn off energy. Thank you all!

        (Here’s hoping for fewer bites in 2021!)

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      He’s stalking/hunting you. You’re supposed to hunt back. it’s possible he sees you as mom, because baby kittens will practice on mom and other kittens. Distraction is a good idea – get him playing with something else BEFORE he goes after you.

    4. wingmaster*

      My cat does the same thing – only to me and not my partner! When she gets all wide eyed staring at me and then starts wiggling her butt to pounce, that’s when I immediately grab my laser pointer or wand. Your cat wants to play with you.

    5. Dog and cat fosterer*

      What are you doing at the time? For example cats get energized and want to stalk prey if you pet them from head to tail, so that might be something? It’s really hard to know without seeing the behaviour, sorry!

      1. Keymaster of Gozer*

        Ahh, that makes sense! He loves having the dressing gown cord to hunt and grab so I’ll keep it to hand :)

      2. Keymaster of Gozer*

        Aaand it posted under the wrong comment!

        For yours: I don’t pet him anywhere other than his head because he hates anywhere else and even then not until he’s sniffed a bit and brushed against my hand. I don’t know his history before the rescue centre, they estimate he was 3 when we adopted him, but he’ll gently warn you off if you touch him wrong (bats with claws in) once before bringing the claws out.

        Not a lap cat, hates being held but loves sleeping between feet. Normally when this happens I’m sewing or reading and no touching him at all.

  53. Mimmy*

    I hope this isn’t too specific a question, but I’m interested in the new Netflix series about Selena that was just released. Has anyone started watching it yet? If so, is it worthwhile? From what I read, it’s not going to go through her entire life in one season; this season focuses on her childhood and teen years.

    I loved the 1997 movie and was always interested in her story, though I admit I was more intrigued by the relationship between her and Yolanda.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      I read a review that said it was more focused on her family members, particularly the men, and the review criticized that focus. Basically, the critic said it doesn’t add much.

    2. StudentA*

      I wonder why they chose to focus on her childhood. I would think her tragic death would give so much tv material. Do you think it’s so they have a second season?

      1. Mimmy*

        The article I read said that this is the “first” season, so it seems they intend on having multiple seasons.

    3. Roci*

      It’s amazing! It really focuses on her family, less on her so far. I disagree with the criticism that it “mostly focuses on the men”, her sister is a big part of it. Makes sense since the sister is apparently an executive producer.

      I would compare it to the Freddy Mercury movie in terms of perspective–the history of a person whose inner thoughts we cannot know, told by the people around and closest to them who get to shape how this story is told.

      Overall very compelling and great for gringos who aren’t familiar with Selena and Mexican-American cultures.

  54. Frankie Bergstein*

    Folks in the Northern hemisphere, I want to talk about the winter blues — you know, the feeling of wanting to hibernate like a bear this season! This is similar to, but not, seasonal affective disorder, which is a mental health condition that needs the help of a professional (rather than solely the support of a generous, kind, resourceful internet community like this one).

    Here’s what I’d like to know:
    1. If you’re getting the winter blues, are they the same or different than previous years? How so?
    2. What are you doing to address your winter blues, if anything?
    3. What’s working? What did you try and isn’t working? What are you just trying now and don’t have results for yet?

    What I’m hoping to get out of this thread is some sharing so I know I’m not alone in my feeling like a hibernating bear, and I’d also love to hear strategies that are working for folks. I’ll answer these questions – and post links about what SAD vs. winter blues are – below. Thanks in advance for your engagement in this topic!

    2. Frankie Bergstein*

      1. Mine are bigger than previous years, and I think they’ve arrived sooner as well. I think they’re a little stronger in intensity. I feel heavier and slower than I remember. My productivity and focus are a bit lower. I can’t push and shove my way out of them like I could before. It’s hard – I get frustrated with myself sometimes for this, but I’m trying to take the steps I can (light box, exercise, get outdoors, pet the doggo).

      2. Light box, exercise, get outdoors, pet the dog, meds, try to find creative things to do (like a date with the doggo — dog park, then S’bux for mocha (for me) and a puppacino (for the dog). And forgive myself when I just can’t muster up the energy to do this. Accept it.

      3. I’m not sure what is and isn’t working yet! I’m not trying things one by one, so I don’t know. Also, some days I feel happy, some days I don’t (and this is me checking in the mornings).

    3. Coenobita*

      This year is way worse for me! I think it’s because I’m working from home (as well as, you know, everything). Normally I take a walk after work, but I’ve been shifting that earlier so I can go outside while it’s still light(ish) out. On my walks, I make a point of visiting a few neighborhood dogs (like the samoyed I mentioned in another thread above) who are usually outside around that time. That cheers me up a lot!

      1. Frankie Bergstein*

        What would we do without dogs? They are the MVPs of quarantimes, I think! Love that you have a sweet Samoyed!

    4. Puffle*

      1. The blues are more intense than usual, and have set in earlier. I’m really struggling to find motivation for anything outside of work, and even simple things like eating healthily and getting enough sleep seem to be really hard right now. I’m not sure if this is more winter blues, or more me being overwhelmed by other things that are going on in my life right now.

      2. Exercise (martial arts), cuddle my cat, go for walks outside when the weather is tolerable, pursue my creative interests (writing short stories/ poetry), meditate when I feel overwhelmed, just generally trying to be patient with myself.

      3. Most of these things seem to be working for me, though occasionally meditation can just wind me up the wrong way, and if I try going for a walk when the weather’s too cold/ windy I just feel miserable.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I read the idea about eating with the seasons, because the foods available now have the nutrition we need for this time of year. I am trying to be more aware and avoid things like watermelon and other out-of-season foods that are available but do not look that great now anyway.

      I think I do need more greens in the winter so I am going to work on soups or drinks with plenty of green veggies.

      I think some hibernation is appropriate this could mean extra rest or extra quiet time. Summer seems so demanding with almost 24 hour days. This allows me to let go of some of my concerns about too much sleep. To some extent we are supposed to cycle with the seasons. I mean this within reasonable amounts.

      So far this year has not been as bad as other years but I am making serious Life Changes so it’s probably distracting me. I did start with my extra vitamin D just the same. I fully expect the blues to hit in January or February.

    6. Girasol*

      Not much different. Last year I got a light box and spent a half hour after waking sitting in front of it doing Duolingo language lessons. I’m hooked on the combination; doesn’t seem like morning now without my light and lessons. I aiming at more fresh air exercise this winter and telling myself that cold air will be great for my metabolism. Hmm…wonder if I can keep that up all winter.

    7. Nessun*

      I’m not too prone to SAD, but this year I’m feeling it like I haven’t before. I need the light to wake, and that’s harder than ever with the fatigue from this past year’s events. I find myself depressed and done with it all before I’m even up. The days are getting darker, and soon I’ll have very little natural light each day (Edmonton here).

      To deal with it, I’ve been trying to exercise regularly- I do go out to the gym, but I also have a program to do at home. I’m kinda nesting; making my home very cozy and thinking about what I’ll want around me to feel safe and warm for when the weather gets REALLY cold, and not just the snow we’ve already got.

      I’m worried that I’ll hit a point where I just hibernate, don’t go out (already WFH, live alone), and continue to see almost no one. It’s really something I’m concerned about. I’m keeping a close eye on my energy levels, my online socializing, and knowing where my support networks are.

    8. allathian*

      I’m really feeling it this year, although it seems to me that my winter blues have gotten worse each year. I’m at 60 N so currently we have about 5 hours of twilight. During the week, I try to get some fresh air during my lunch hour. I have a light box that I keep switched on for about two hours in the morning, and it’s also my light for video meetings. I’m also exercising at home with weights and on the stationary bike, as well as the walks. But I’m also giving myself permission to be a bit lethargic, as long as I get my work done, have enough energy to do my part of our household chores and spend some time with my son, I’m satisfied.

  55. WellRed*

    Looking at today’s thread, I wonder if Alison should do a gift recommendation thread? People can ask for ideas, others will have ideas and everyone can browse.

      1. WellRed*

        Sure, why not? I always scan the questions and responses. Might be nice for folks to have a thread with al kinds of different ideas for those all kinds of different folks we have to shop for. Someone asking for gift ideas for their food loving inlaws might inspire ideas for my food loving sister.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Thinking it over, I think it’s a bit too outside the work mission of the site (especially in a month where I already have a ton of content — we’re going up to 5 or 6 posts a day this month), but maybe we can do it as its own thread within this weekend thread or next Saturday’s?

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            In fact — since it’s still pretty early this weekend, I’m going to set it up as a thread at the top of this comment section and move the existing gift posts to it. Thank you for the idea!

  56. T-Mobile Question*

    I’m trying to determine if this is a carrier thing or Android or my phone: previously, the display used to tell me if a call was ‘scam likely’ or not while I was receiving the call. Now, I can only see that once it’s a missed call.

    So, if you have T-Mobile, are you able to see that an incoming call is a scam while it’s ringing?

    1. Squidhead*

      Former Sprint customer (now merged with T-mobile) using an Android…I’ve never had it alert me to spam calls :(

      I do add the numbers to a Spam entry in my contacts (like if it leaves one of those “your loved one is in jail in Texas” messages) but that’s all manual.

      1. T-Mobile Question*

        I’ve have them for years so it’s a T-mobile service but I don’t know why it’s changed. I don’t like their chat feature anymore (or maybe just 2020) but I will probably go that route eventually.

        I rarely get repeat calls that are marked spam. The other calls which I am sure are also spam rarely repeat either. Looking at my missed calls, I guess I only get 3/day so it wouldn’t be too bad to add them as a scam#…

    2. Nynaeve*

      Mine still shows me if it’s likely a spam call while ringing. T-Mobile carrier, Android OS, Samsung S6 phone.

      1. T-Mobile Question*

        Dang. Thanks. I had a feeling it was my phone. I’ve had some annoyances with it and I’m trying not to get a new phone but I’m tempted.

        1. Nynaeve*

          Since it looks like the feature is working for others (and it was previously working for you), try contacting T-Mobile customer support before concluding you need a new phone. They may be able to help you pinpoint the issue. I’ve used the online chat feature successfully in the past.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Hmm. I do have them, and I know I’ve seen that, but I can’t remember if it’s showed up on calls lately. I rarely give out my actual cell number anymore; I use my Google Voice number on my resume and in job applications, or if I’m giving my number to people I don’t know.

      Mostly it just says “unknown number.” I don’t know if the scam alert is able to detect spoofing, or whatever misdirection tactics the spammers have.

    4. ThatGirl*

      I have an iPhone on Verizon and I get both ringing calls that say “potential spam” and some that are sent straight to voicemail. And sometimes numbers that ring normally but are spam. It’s all over the place.

    6. Mella*

      I have a Moto G Power on a grandfathered no-data PAYG T-Mobile plan, and I got “scam likely” as recently as yesterday.

      Note that T-Mobile is forcing some people to upgrade their phones. My parents and I both had our dumb phones lose all connectivity in September, and CS confirmed that they are phasing out 3G service in waves. I would not have bought a smartphone, but I literally had no choice.

  57. Squidhead*

    I’ve already done it, but seeking feedback for next year: I messaged several friends privately to confirm the names of their children for end-of-year greeting card purposes. In a couple of cases, I know because the parent has said it: they have a child who is trans or non-binary (I don’t need the kid’s specific details, I just wanna get their name right!) In one case, the parent hasn’t said anything public but refers to the teen kid by a different name (could be a nickname) and the kid, in pictures, has dramatically changed their presentation in the last 18 months.

    I’m early 40’s, as are the adult friends in question. I have no kids so, parents, did I do a helpful thing or will it seem like I am prying? I didn’t reference gender at all in my messages, just said I wanted to get everyone’s name correct.

    2. Double A*

      I mean, I’m sure there’s someone out there who’d be like, “I cannot believe someone was so nosey as to want to know the names of my children,” but they’re living by some other social contract than the rest of us. You’re fine.

      1. Squidhead*

        Thanks–I do tend to overthink things! But I’ve been sending cards for years with the names of the kids (I live across the country from where I grew up so I haven’t met the kids in person). So I definitely knew the kid’s names in the past and want to make sure that I know the new ones now, without seeming to pry for more-personal information.

    3. RagingADHD*

      They will either assume you are being extra thoughtful because you picked up these cues, or that you are, like them, in your 40s and just couldn’t remember. Because that is a thing that happens to us all.

      Neither is offensive in any way.

    4. Mella*

      I’ve never put individual names on holiday cards, just addressed the envelope to “The Smiths” or “The Smith Jones Family” if multiple last names are involved. It’s an easy workaround if you need one.

      1. Squidhead*

        I do that on the envelopes, but I like to write everyone’s name inside with a short message! It feels a little more personal, and it doesn’t take too much time (we send 60-65 cards a year).

    5. Mom*

      If someone messaged me asking for my daughter’s name (or the correct spelling, or which pronouns she uses, or whatever), I would answer the message and then promptly forget about the interaction. My kid has a name with a lot of potential variations (think Elizabeth/Liz/Bess/Beth/Betty) and so I do, quite often, get this kind of question (“Is Elizabeth going by Bessie just to her friends, or to everyone?”) and it’s perfectly polite and no big deal at all. You’re good :)

  58. I edit everything*

    I remember a while back there was a discussion about thinking putty. Someone mentioned Crazy Aaron’s, and others chimed in with less expensive alternatives. Could anyone remind me what those were? Looking at stocking stuffers. Thanks!

    2. The Time Being*

      Having tried out a bunch of those, my recommendation is to stick with good old Silly Putty. Most of the newer, fancier ones tend to either start breaking down or condense into a stiff and unworkable mass pretty quickly.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I had one that was sold as a hand exerciser –I think mine was Power Putty. Lasted at least a few years until I lost track of it in an office move.

  59. Puffle*

    Hello commentariat, looking for suggestions about meals.

    I’m really struggling with winter this year, specifically with motivation. I think between winter, Covid, and being really stressed out with The Thing We Don’t Discuss At Weekends plus trying to juggle doing a diploma, I’m just about all out of spoons for anything outside of work/ studies- especially when it comes to food.

    Each week I plan out my weekly grocery delivery order with good intentions of cooking healthy meals, but when I finally get the time to make dinner even simple, quick recipes that I’ve made a hundred times before (ie. tomato pasta, or frittata) it just feel like too much. Half the time I end up either ordering a pizza or eating whatever crap I can find in the cupboard/ fridge, and usually I don’t eat until really late in the evening. Heavily processed food tends to upset my stomach, and meal kit services like Blue Apron are out of my budget and not really available where I live.

    So this week I have a new plan: keep it even simpler, get as much easy fruit & veg in as possible. So far I’m thinking salads, scrambled eggs on toast, and omelettes. Any suggestions for similar things?

    Tldr: what’s your favourite healthy, absolutely minimum effort meal that doesn’t involve takeaway (takeout), meal kit services like Blue Apron, or large amounts of processed food?

    1. nep*

      Oatmeal (you could mix in an egg or hemp powder or something for a protein), Trader Joe’s black bean rotini, roasted potato (you might want to add some protein), amaranth or quinoa.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Baked potato with cheese, broccoli, maybe a bit of crumbled bacon.

      On your frittata/scrambled eggs – if you can take a half hour at the weekend, baked egg muffins are basically mini quiches, freeze great for at least two weeks and reheat fine in thirty seconds in the microwave. Beat a half dozen eggs together and fill muffin tin cups about 2/3, then sprinkle cheese and salt&pepper (plus whatever else, sausage or bacon or veg) in each one and bake them at 350 for ~20 min. (The recipes online usually have you mix in the toppings before filling the cups, but I find this way does more even distribution, plus you can make different kinds in the same batch if you want.) After reheating, you can either eat them as is or kinda mash them up with a fork to do breakfast burrito in tortillas.

    3. quantum mechanic*

      Ok: absolutely healthy easy meal: Bagged kale salad and bean/chickpeas with jarred salsa or jarred curry sauce, and bread and cheese. Varying the sauce/salsa flavour changes the meal every time.

    5. lazy intellectual*

      I sympathize – I have the hardest time with meal prepping but I don’t want to eat unhealthy food like takeout or frozen meals.

      One tray meals are a life saver. Make sure you have a functioning oven or toaster oven. A lot of my one tray meals involve some sort of seasoned meat/protein with roast potatoes and garlic bread and some vegetable (peas, carrots, green beans, broccoli, etc.) Buy preseasoned meat and pre chopped vegetables when you can to minimize prep time. Buy any condiments and spices you prefer that you can use for marinade, seasoning, and sauces.

      Some of my favorites include:

      Pesto chicken
      Teriyaki salmon
      Meatloaf
      BBQ chicken or beef
      If I’m feeling fancy, steak
      If I want to take a break from meat, curried roasted chickpeas

      1. Reba*

        Yes, one tray meals! If you have a little budget to buy a cookbook, I really recommend Rukmini Iyer’s series of one-pan roasted meals! Sold in the US as “Dinner’s in the Oven” and in the UK as “the Roasting Tin” (original UK name so much cuter, ugh). They also include a guide for how to improvise other one-pan dishes, using what is available, i.e. grain + green + veg + whatever.

        Other things we often make without thinking about it are cronchy roasted potatoes, roasted cauliflower with any seasoning — we have quite a few spice blends on hand that make it very easy to make a dish more interesting — and any sauteed vegetable on rice. Lately we have also been doing frozen Chinese steamed dumplings when we can’t be bothered to prepare anything. (We are vegetarian.)

        Also, if you can spring for or make good bread, for me that really makes anything better to eat. Like just a fried egg, seasoned on thick toast? That’s a meal to me, where my lone fried egg is a bit sad.

    6. Jane Smith*

      Those tins of prepared veggies which I roast and have with couscous and hummus, or a tin of chickpeas.
      Or soup and toast.
      Beans on toast.
      Jacket potato and homemade coleslaw. I shred cabbage and carrot in the food processor then mix with plant-based mayo

    7. Blue Eagle*

      My favorite quick meal is leftovers. I use the small pyrex rectangular bowls to freeze leftovers. One-third protein, one-third starch, one-third vegetables. When I have a leftover protein or starch I put it in 1/3 of the pyrex bowl and add frozen broccoli to the other third and put it in the freezer. Then when I’m hungry and want a quick meal, I take one of those bowls out of the freezer and voila – – instant healthy meal to microwave and eat.

    8. So, there!*

      Blue Apron and the like come with a LOT of packaging for just a couple of meals, and for me that was a drawback. And each recipe took longer to make than they said. Also, the meals we tried were all of the “fry it on the stovetop” type, which can be more mess than it’s worth. They were generally well thought out and more than acceptable from a taste standpoint, but we decided we’d rather do our own thing.

    9. Grits McGee*

      If you have a small oven, hot open-faced sandwiches/ loaded toast are great. My favorites are-
      -Kimchi/pickles and cheese on toast
      -Open faced tuna melt- packet of flavored tuna, squeezed defrosted spinach, and cheese
      -Squished banana w/ cinnamon on toast (squish cocoa powder into the banana if you’re feeling particularly decadent)
      -Preserved fruit and ricotta or cottage cheese on toast
      -Peanut butter and cocoa powder on toast

      Microwave baked potatoes/ sweet potatoes are also good and easy, and can be topped with whatever you have around. (Sweet potato+salsa+beans+cheese= yum!)

      Another easy meal if you have ingredients is miso soup. I just heat up water in my tea kettle, take a spoon and scoop up a dollop of miso, plop it in the bowl and add any combination of the following:
      -Dried wakame
      -Frozen vegetables (peas are my favorite)
      -Broken up dried mushrooms
      -Dried onion flakes/ garlic granules
      -Broken up soba noodles
      -Small cubes of tofu (pre-chopped and frozen by me)
      -Kimchi
      -Sesame oil

    10. Bluebell*

      Shakshuka- use canned fire roasted tomatoes or tomatoes w garlic. Summer w a little cumin and paprika. Then make wells and pop in two eggs. Simmer about 8 mins. Voila- top w a little feta if you want higher protein content. Cozy and simple.

    11. Parenthetically*

      Frozen ravioli, jarred sauce, frozen veg. 10 minute dinner. Throw a bagged salad in there for some more veg.

    12. My Brain Is Exploding*

      Finals week meal from back in the day. Make a box of mac and cheese (so you could get cheapo or a gourmet brand). We always agreed a can of tuna and a package of cooked, frozen peas but you could add any leftover protein (like chopped ham) and a cooked veg. And you can eat it for a few days!

    13. curly sue*

      I’ve been living out of my rice cooker lately. It’s a little 6-cup one, so not too expensive, and small enough to live on my counter.

      I tip rice and water in, season with teriyaki sauce and lemon juice, then when the water’s boiling throw in frozen veggies (I love the texture of peas in rice, but really anything will work). Once cooked, I like to stir in bits of cooked chicken bacon, then crack an egg overtop. Put the lid back on and let it steam to cook the egg to desired doneness. I don’t stir the egg in, but you totally could.

      It’s kind of a frankensteined breakfast rice / fried rice mashup, without the oil of fried rice or having to stand over the pot while it cooks.

    14. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Deconstructed tuna casserole in one pot:
      – Boil and drain some egg pappardelle (takes about 5 mins or less if its fresh – look in the refrigerated pasta section at the grocery store in the UK – by the pizzas usually. Dried also works, any type of pasta)
      – Put pappardelle back in the pot
      – Add a tablespoon or two of butter. Stir it around until its melted and coated the pasta
      – Grate in a bit of parmesan (optional). Stir.
      – Add in a small can of tuna (like Ortiz sized) or half a larger can. Stir.
      – Toss in a handful or two of frozen peas that have been defrosted. Stir.
      – Season with salt and pepper

      Voila! This literally takes about 10 minutes and is as healthy as you can get on those nights when takeaway looks appealing but you know you will be hating yourself afterwards for eating it (trust me – we had three of those nights in the last 10 days). One pot, no cleanup, you probably have this stuff in the house at all times.

      Other suggestion would be to prep the basics once on the weekend and then combine during the week. Do a cup of rice, wash and prep your veggies/salads, maybe cook a chicken. Then mix and match all that stuff together during the week. Maybe add a pre-made sauce on top or, as I do, hot sauce. Keep some small tortillas around to make quesadillas, etc. Its a lot easier to pull together some random food like veggie sticks and a chicken salad sandwich when its already done.

      Finally, this sounds really OCD, but I have found that labeling everything in my fridge has done wonders for improving home eating. I got some labels off Amazon, and stick them on the containers with the dates, for leftovers and other cooked bits. Its a LOT easier to open the fridge and see what you have, and start to generate what you could then make from the components, when you can see at a glance without pulling everything out.
      –

      1. pancakes*

        Yes to this pasta, which we have often with just cheese, butter, frozen peas, & lots of freshly ground black pepper. A heaping spoonful of creme fraiche if you have it.

        I started toasting my peppercorns in a dry skillet and letting them cool before refilling the pepper mill. (Carefully pour them out on to parchment paper, let cool, roll it into a funnel to get them in the pepper mill). I buy good peppercorns to begin with, mostly from Penzey’s, but I think it’s worth doing. It intensifies the flavor in a nice way.

    15. Fish Microwaver*

      Soups are a great way to get lots of vegetables in and can be batch cooked so you have something easy on hand when you can’t be bothered. A basic vegetable soup can also have different meats and carbs added almost last minute to add variety. Think barbecue chicken, pulled pork, leftover roast beef, barley, rice, pasta, ramen. Or you can blend the soup for a creamier version.

    16. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I love roasted sheet pan meals. Usually I do these with just veggies, but you can add meats such as chicken or sausage too. When I’m feeling lazy about dinner, they’re great because I can take frozen veggies, toss them directly on a pan, coat with olive oil and some spices (rosemary, garlic salt, chili powder, thyme, whatever), and right into the oven.

    17. Redhairedrunner*

      I like beans and greens with pasta, you can cook the greens portion while the pasta water heats up and you will have tasty leftovers for the week. Even simpler I sometimes throw some broccoli in with my pasta a few minutes before it finishes so that I can have pasta with lightly cooked broccoli and sauce.

    18. Anono-me*

      I would suggest adding a rotisserie chicken to your weekly grocery list. You can reheat it as the meat course with potatoes/rice and vegetables or add it to salads, pastas.

      If you like Indian food, check out the ‘Everyday Dahl’ line of food. 90 second in the microwave and serve over rice.

    19. Natalie*

      If you’re cooking for one and the salad/cold bar is back in your area, that is an easy way to get prepped veggies in small portions. The per-pound price might be a little higher, but veggies you throw away without eating are the most expensive.

    20. Might Be Spam*

      My daughter got this recipe from video gamers in Latin America. Her whole group is impressed and happy that I made it. Help me get some cool mom points and let me know if you try it so I can tell them.

      Throw a cup of rice and a can of black beans (not rinsed) in a pot with 2 cups of water. Cook until the rice is done and mix in 2 tablespoons of Mojo sauce. That’s it.

      Sometimes I throw in frozen chopped onions and green peppers and/or a can of diced tomatoes with the rice before cooking.

      Sometimes I use enchilada sauce instead of the Mojo sauce. Apparently you can can get Mojo sauce by the gallon online, but I didn’t go that far.

    21. Bibliovore*

      these covid times.
      I feel just as you do. I am SO out of spoons. And Planning. The food coop was my happy place and I am at hi-risk so…
      My grocery order comes once a week. always on hand- carrots, potatoes, something green.
      Always- orange, juice, plain yogurt bananas- I freeze the bananas and make smoothies.
      Always- good bread-what doesn’t get eaten goes in the freezer.
      a dozen eggs- I boil 6 for soy eggs Momofuko style.
      Once a week- steel cut oatmeal in the instant pot. I have been known to eat this like congee with broth, ginger, soy,sliced scallions- Kimchi, heated in the microwave.
      hanging my head in shame- I buy ready to cook in 90 seconds rice bowls. They come 8 in a pack at COSTCO. I eat half of one for a serving.
      Baby spinich/kale etc to throw on the rice bowl.
      chicken thighs, brats for protein.
      one really good cheese.
      Tortillas- for quesadillas
      A friend brings me fresh ricotta every once in while- Toast ricotta and a drizzle of honey is the perfect dinner for me.
      Another friend whatever fresh fruit is on sale and in season.
      KIMCHI- I mail order Mother-in-Law or in the summer the farmers market preorder. You Betcha brand.
      Early pandemic I made my own- as I said- out of spoons.

      Every morning- soy egg, kimchi, pickled ginger, furkake. maybe some left over protein.
      When I JUST CAN’T anymore- tortilla chips with melted cheese and salsa

      I miss fish.

      1. pancakes*

        I make those soy sauce eggs too! They’re so good with ramen, and with toast or rice or whatnot for breakfast.

        I dearly wish I knew someone who brought me fresh ricotta.

    22. Damn it, Hardison!*

      White beans with tomatoes, spinach and kielbasa (but great without it too). Sauté onion and garlic (and kielbasa if using) in a large skillet until softened, add one can of drained white beans and one can diced tomatoes (I like to use fire-roasted), and 1 c. chicken stock (leave out the stock if you’d like it thicker, can use water instead). Once it’s warmed up, add a bag of baby spinach and let it wilt into the beans/tomatoes. Salt and pepper as desired; sometimes I add a little dried thyme or Italian seasoning with the beans. Sprinkle with Parmesan if you’d like. As you can tell it’s very flexible! A nice piece of crust bread on the side is nice.

      Another thing I like are sheet pan dinners. They are usually meat and veggies tossed together with some seasonings and cooked on a sheet pan in the oven. A lot of the recipes are pretty low effort but some do get a bit more complicated. Sheet pan chicken fajitas are one of my go-tos (oven roasted fajitas on rachelschultz dot com). The Kitchn dot com has some good easy sheet pan dinners.

    23. Girasol*

      Plop a pot roast and root veggies into the crock pot. Boneless turkey roasts do well in a crock pot too and you can either roast veggies alongside or simmer up some frozen veggies to go along. Or put a pork picnic roast into the pot with a little liquid smoke and salt, and then shred it up with forks when it’s done. You can eat it as is in its own juice or add barbecue sauce, and put a salad alongside. Bread goes well with any of those, or Minute brown rice. If you’re up for it on a Sunday, make a huge beef or chicken stew with a little wine and lots of veggies. Make enough for a crowd in any case – it’s only a little more work than cooking for one – and then freeze the leftovers for a selection of heat-and-eat meals for later.

    24. MsChanandlerBong*

      Falafel. Super easy to make the mixture ahead of time so that all you have to do at meal time is cook it. I use the Budget Bytes recipe, but I omit the cilantro and cayenne pepper.

      Chicken breasts coated in your favorite taco-type seasoning mixture (I make my own so I know what’s in it) and baked in the oven so you don’t need to go through the trouble of cutting it up and cooking it in a pan. Shake the chicken with some bell pepper slices and the seasoning and then put it all on a pan and put it in the oven. I like to eat this with some diced cucumber and halved cherry tomatoes.

      Honey-garlic shrimp served with vegetables. (Marinate the shrimp in a mix of garlic, honey, soy sauce, and ginger–fresh ginger is better, but I have been using ground ginger to save time on peeling and cutting up the fresh version.)

      Veggie “chili”: Diced tomatoes, tomato sauce, corn, bell peppers, onion, chili powder, and bay leaf. Takes < 10 minutes to prep and can be served with baked potatoes or another low-effort side dish.

    25. Fellow Traveller*

      When we are even not motivated to cook, we have snack dinner. Carrot sticks, sliced cucumbers, hummus, pita, Tzatziki, cheese, fruit, some cold cuts, frozen edamame, Triscuits, hard boiled eggs, marinated artichoke hearts, etc. The trick for us is to have lots of healthy snacks on hand.

      1. pancakes*

        I can happily eat that sort of thing 2x week. Oatcakes in addition to or instead of crackers are good, too. (Like Nairn’s). Also second the rotisserie chicken suggested above.

        Frozen dumplings from H mart or a Japanese or Chinese grocery if you have one nearby are great, too. Easy and quick to prepare, not expensive, can vary the dipping sauce, or just use a splash of soy sauce. I like a mixture of soy sauce, Chinese black vinegar, chili crisp, and sesame oil.

    26. Asenath*

      Something I can microwave. When I do cook (and I totally get the “I can’t tolerate standing at the kitchen counter one minute” feeling), I always have extras and freeze them in meal-sized portions. I usually do simple, one pot things like chili. I also found local businesses that does, well, I suppose you could call it take-out, but it’s in the form of very good (although, alas, not cheap) trays of meals, fresh and frozen. I can easily split their middle size into two meals, one for now and one to freeze for later. I’ve always liked oatmeal (as long as it’s NOT the microwave kind) and keep a few types of other grains on hand, so I might mix oatmeal with Red River cereal or some other type for variety. Cooked slowly in a heavy pot over low heat with added fruit (frozen, or if you have the energy, fresh and cut up) and plain yoghurt at the end – it’s easy and filling and tasty. If you buy cooked ham or chicken at your supermarket, you can add the meat to a green salad without having to cook it yourself.

    27. Simple meals best meals*

      In my house we are big fans of dips for meals. Make or buy one or two dips (guacamole, hummus, fromage fort, whatever), arrange vegetables/cold boiled potatoes/bread/crackers/whatever on a plate, dip. Easy, satisfying, fun. We’re also big fans of the “cold plate” – sliced boiled eggs, cheese, maybe some leftover cold meats or deli meats if we have them, olives/pickles, fruits, and vegetables, crackers or bread.

      I don’t know if tofu is too processed for you, but we also do a lot of tofu noodle stir fries, which are easy to prepare – lots of veggies, some cubed and seared tofu, rice noodles, and a little stir fry sauce, and you have a delicious supper in 20 minutes.

      I also do a super easy white bean bake that’s filling and essentially no effort: make a quick tomato sauce with canned tomatoes + onion + garlic + herbs, dump in a can of white beans, top with cheese, bake in the oven until bubbling, eat.

    28. beach read*

      I cook a pound of 98% lean ground turkey breast, section out and freeze. I keep pantry items such as beans and tomatoes to make a super fast chili, 90 second microwave pasta and jarred sauce, for an italian style meal, even added to a bag of frozen veggies with some soy sauce when I want something quick but hearty and comforting. The ground turkey is so fast to cook, doesn’t take up much space in the freezer, and I’ve been able to avoid ordering out/taking out because I have the basics to build any type flavored meal. Also, Jamie Oliver has a show around vegetables and easy meals.

  60. Jessi*

    It sounds like you just need some heat and eat meals – blue apron and other services still require you to actually cook, which it sounds like is the hard part for you. Why not give your self a couple of weeks freedom and just buy things that need warming?
    Soup! bonus – toast some bread
    pre cooked chicken
    my local supermarket does pre cooked meals for 1 or 2, like stew, curry ect and I buy bags of microwave veggies

    1. WellRed*

      Precooked chicken is a lifesaver! I buy precooked shredded to put in easy soups or fajitas. I also ocassionally buy a roast chicken breast and pick it off that to eat straight up or maybe in a salad. More work, though.

  61. Seeking Second Childhood*

    People with behind the ear hearing aids — anything to know about bling?
    This week I kept my promise to my childhood self that if I developed my mom’s partial hearing loss that makes it hard to my child’s voice clearly, I’d get a hearing aid no matter my age.
    I have some holo glitter sparkles in my etsy basket, and I’m wondering about the tube decorations — I like the look but I’m worried it might make the while gadget harder to get used to.
    What’s your experience?

    1. Whether, the Storm*

      I got behind-the-ear hearing aids also pretty young. I’d suggest giving yourself a month or so to get used to them before trying to add bling. Don’t know if you bought the aids yet, but some models come in bright pink, or teal for the behind the ear part. Reputable dealers also will let you demo different models for a week or so. They can be surprisingly different experiences. I don’t have any bling recommendations, but love the idea.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Thanks, I’ll stick with the removable decals for now. The model I got no longer comes in colors, so no ear jewelry for me otherwise.
        Also on my list is over-the-head masks and crocheting ear-straps.

        1. Mimmy*

          I wear BTE hearing aids and they always get caught on the mask straps; I definitely need to look into an alternative. I wear glasses too.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Adding, for me a juggling a hearing aid, mask and glasses would keep me busy enough. I just put in regular pierced earrings and the earrings, glasses and mask all end up fighting with each other.

  62. Llama face!*

    This is COVID talk so please skip if you’ve had too much of that already.

    Tl;dr- My parents have gotten sucked into the conspiracy theories about COVID, especially that hospitals are reporting everything as COVID deaths even when the main cause was something else. Do you have any resources to recommend that do a good job of explaining why this doesn’t make sense/isn’t believable?

    Long story: My whole family is less concerned about COVID than I am and they are all starting to get sucked into the bad science/pseudoscience claims and conspiracy theories around it. I can talk til I’m blue in the face but because “person we met recently who is nice and an ICU nurse” says the hospital is claiming heart attack victims as COVID patients, I don’t get anywhere. If I can point to good resources (preferably from someone with science/health credentials) it may help sway them a little. One of my parents is particularly high risk so I am concerned they will not be careful enough because they are believing inaccurate info about the pandemic.

    Fwiw, they also have been spouting stuff about mandatory vacccines being forced on people (totally never gonna happen in Canada), masks being dangerous, test inaccuracy (we only use the method that has 80% accuracy and not the error prone one more common in other countries), and the like. UGGH!

    1. Squidhead*

      IDK if this perspective helps, but look: people are getting sick, needing hospitalization, and dying in record numbers of *something*. My hospital (ICU nurse here, in a US state that actually did a pretty good job of locking things down in March but is struggling now) is placing non-COVID patients on unusual units to make room for the COVID patients. This means that some specialized units can’t take care of their specialized populations because their units have been taken over by COVID needs. And then, downstream, “clean” units are taking care of patients they’re not very familiar with. So whether they believe in COVID or not, it’s having a real, serious, and potentially deadly impact on everyone at this point.

      And from a medical perspective, you *always* die of cardiac arrest, respiratory arrest, or brainstem infarction in the end, so splitting hairs about whether a death certificate lists “cardiac arrest” as a cause of death may be futile if you aren’t aware of the entire medical history. For statistical purposes it IS important, but “cardiac arrest” doesn’t mean “heart attack” if that makes sense…

      1. Llama face!*

        Thanks, Squidhead

        Yeah, I tried explaining that to them but of course they think everyone who is sick for other reasons is getting shunted into COVID wards so that’s why numbers are high. Our COVID deaths in my province are relatively low compared to most of the world but are already as high as the last 3 years’ flu deaths put together but of course that means nothing to them because they think that the deaths were really other causes. And I tried explaining that it would require massive cooperation in the medical field and multiple countries agreeing to all lie about their causes of hospital deaths but they just reply, “Do you really think [nice lady] would lie about it? She’s an ICU nurse!”
        (Yes, yes I do think she’s lying about it or just really ill-educated for her field)

        I think perhaps appealing to authority may have more effect which is why I was asking for reccs.

        1. Squidhead*

          Oof. Yeah, my personal Occam’s razor of conspiracy theories always comes down to “that’s way too organized to have actually happened!” Even if the entire medical community is lying, patients themselves are still showing up with new symptoms! It’s not like we’re forcing them to come in! So I’m not sure how you can convince them when their skepticism is so entrenched. They’ll discount any expert opinion they read, presumably, in favor of the view that is more comforting. My sympathies to you, and best wishes for everyone’s health.

          1. tangerineRose*

            Yeah, I just can’t picture the CDC and the WHO and other medical professions keeping up a pretense for this long without someone finding out.

      2. Mella*

        In line with this excellent point about technical medical COD, are OP’s parents old enough to remember the AIDs crisis? Do they believe that thousands of gay men were just randomly getting pneumonia in the 80s?

        1. Llama face!*

          I actually used that as an example! But apparently this is different somehow. *throws up hands*
          (And yes, I am an elder millennial so they are certainly old enough to get the reference. Heck, I’M old enough to get the reference never mind them.)

    2. So, there!*

      My dad is somewhat the same way. He thinks it’s all overblown and that the mainstream media has convinced us of a problem that doesn’t really exist (something about suppression of information). He does Internet “research” on his special sites and believes what they say. He accused me of being too afraid because we didn’t go to Thanksgiving where there were 3 teens that I don’t know what they’re up to (but I have heard generally that they are out and about) and my other family members who all work outside the home. I even told him we know people who have had covid and a couple of them passed away.

      Even when I told him that everyone has to make a decision for themselves that they are comfortable with, he didn’t budge. Notably, he never once said he missed me/would like to see us. It was just an opportunity for him to be “right” in his own mind and argue.

      1. Llama face!*

        My parents said they was being mislabelled as COVID deaths because the government was embarrassed and trying not to look bad. Which is just illogical on so many fronts. I honestly have been so disappointed in people these days. My parents are not dumb and I would have even said they were quite wise in some ways. But suddenly they are acting like they’ve never tried critical thinking. It is just so.. *flails incoherently*

        1. So, there!*

          On my better days, I understand fear can make people cling to less-than-rational ideas, and my choices challenge my dad’s decisions to believe certain things, despite evidence to the contrary. Oddly, my dad is clinging to ideas that make him less safe in this situation, when in other instances, he won’t get a flu shot, take recommended medications, etc., but he’s done his internet sleuthing to find the Truth and that’s that. There’s no convincing him otherwise.

          1. Llama face!*

            Yeah, that is so true. It is a fear response to make up these stories or ignore reality. And it is ironic that doing so makes everyone actually less safe. I was actually reading about types of bias recently and the one where people don’t change their minds even when presented with contradictory evidence (forget the proper name of it) was ringing a few familiar bells for me when I considered recent conversations I’ve had.

        2. Double A*

          You know, I wonder if just totally ignoring the content of their beliefs and saying something like, “I know you guys are smart and I’ve always appreciated how you raised me to respect the scientific method and think critically (or whatever values they raised you with that seem to contradict their current actions). It’s disappointing to me to see you abandon that just because you’re scared or disappointed or whatever and don’t want to admit it.”

          I don’t not think it will go over well immediately, but the “I’m disappointed in your choices but that’s all I’ll say about that” tactic is a long game.

      2. Grapey*

        “He accused me of being too afraid”

        I’d accept that accusation. It’s like saying “why won’t you stand a foot away from me” when someone is swinging a baseball bat wildly. They’re the unreasonable one, not you. Someone calling me over the top about being careful is only going to push me away for longer.

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Unfortunately, if your parents are like mine, you can throw facts and sources at them all day long and it won’t make any difference. It sucks. And also unfortunately, you can’t make them take the risk seriously. If they get sick as a result, well, they’ll have to deal with the consequences.

      1. Llama face!*

        The thing is that my parents haven’t always been like this. They’ve been willing to learn and grow and change their minds for a lot of things. So I want to at least try a bit more before I give up on them.

    4. Ice Bear*

      I don’t think your parents understand the differences between cause, manner, and mechanism of death. Maybe it would help to start there. https://www.dummies.com/education/science/forensics/the-cause-mechanism-and-manner-of-death/

      Personally, I’ve learned a lot by following medical professionals on TikTok of all places (it’s not the cesspool some people make it out to be if you’re watching the right content), Dr. Eric Burnett in particular. He, along with others, have taken a stance against the rampant misinformation and horribly inaccurate, not to mention downright crude comments people post about COVID-19. Your parents probably wouldn’t watch his vids on TikTok so I will leave his Facebook link here instead – https://www.facebook.com/eburnett2687

      Another good source is this Nurse Practitioner – https://www.tiktok.com/@christinaaaaaaanp?lang=en

      I really do hope with time your parents will reconsider their stance on the vaccine because I honestly believe it will save many lives and help get the world back to “normal” eventually. Although I do hope we can normalize wearing masks when sick. You don’t really think about how many germs are flying in your face on a daily basis until something like this happens.

      1. Llama face!*

        Thanks for the resources!
        Re: masks afterwards. I do already plan to keep using masks whenever I think I’m catching something after this. That’s trend I had already been wishing would become popular here even before the pandemic (I just wasn’t brave enough to be the trendsetter); it would halve the amount of regular seasonal bug transmission in my office for sure!

    5. TL -*

      Plugging a project I’m involved in, but searching #teamhalo on Twitter or TikTok or looking at their Facebook and I think Instagram accounts will get you a whole bunch of (short) videos by experts talking about COVID-19 and the vaccine development process. They’re from all over the globe but they could be useful to share and at the very least you’ll find some useful information to share with your family.

      1. Llama face!*

        Thank you! Lol I think I need to get with modern times and check out tiktok. I haven’t even made it to twitter, instagram, or snapchat yet, nevermind that. haha

    6. nep*

      I’ve been thinking about this…about how to convince the kind of people who on their deathbeds would insist to nurses that it’s not COVID. (I’ve heard nurses talk about that very thing happening.) I can’t fathom what would turn that kind of thinking around…I really can’t. And that’s head-explodingly frustrating. So I haven’t got an answer to your question about resources; I’ll be interested in others’ input here.
      I have a sense there’s nothing to be done about a significant portion of the population dismissing COVID precautions and/or being downright hostile to them, and all the danger and hardship that’s stemming from that.
      I sympathise with what you’re facing in your family. This is a major stressor for me day in and day out.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Eh, I might consider going right into it with them.

      “Oh. Okay then. So using your own logic, then you need to stay away from hospitals so you don’t get misdiagnosed. This would mean eating a good diet, hydrating regularly and consistent exercise. Tell me, how are those things coming along for you right now?”

      It’s been an observation of mine that arguers are not doers. Doing takes energy, so there is less energy to use for arguing. If they are arguing they drain their own energy away from being able to do more for themselves.

      My wise friend said that many times you can show people the flaws in their own thinking by working through their thinking with them. And I have used this technique a few times, I find that it’s a shorter road than the arguing road.

      I might be tempted to go with, “If you actually believe this stuff, then you know that self-care is of the utmost importance, so you don’t get shoved in a hospital and misdiagnosed. So how’s the diet? Getting in 5 servings of veggies per day? How are the servings of fruit coming along?”

      1. Llama face!*

        Thanks for your reply.
        I’m afraid this won’t help my family: My parents are very fitness and health focused and apart from that one health condition they are in really good shape. So much so that we didn’t learn about the health issue (which is likely congenital) for many years because that parent’s fitness routine kept the symptoms from showing. And they are the ones always bugging me to drink more water, etc etc.
        But I’m sure it will be useful for other folks reading the comments. :)

    8. LGC*

      Sigh. I don’t know if you want to explain the facts to them…rather than asking them why they think that way! I think that might be the best way to go about it.

      It’s also the way I’ve heard to approach both cult members and conspiracy theorists in general.

      I can’t answer for Canada, but in most of the US (and at least where I live), COVID-19 is probably not going to be listed as the direct cause of death. It’s probably going to be something like “cardiac arrest as a result of acute respiratory distress syndrome as a result of pneumonia as a result of COVID-19 infection.” That is, the patient is directly dead because their heart stopped. But their heart stopped because they developed ARDS. And they developed ARDS because they had pneumonia. And they had pneumonia because they had COVID-19. Or in other words, all of those things were related to the patient’s death – starting with the COVID infection.

      (It’s similar logic as to how someone can be charged with homicide even if the victim dies long after. If the cause of death can be directly related to the incident – like, someone injures someone, leaves them in a vegetative state, and they die years later because of their injuries – then in that way they caused someone’s death.)

      I think also – I’ll only speak for myself, but I think that because my area (New Jersey) was so devastated, people remember that. I haven’t asked, but I’d venture to say everyone knows at least one person who died of COVID in the spring. I know of at least three (my cousin’s ex-husband, a family friend, and one of my coworkers), and I wouldn’t be surprised by more. If you’re in – like – South Dakota or Iowa, you probably saw what was happening where I lived and thought it was in a foreign country. And if you’re in Canada, you might have looked at the US and said that we’re a comically mismanaged country full of arrogant jerks (we are), and that Canada’s government would do a superior job of protecting its citizens (it has, but it’s not perfect).

    9. pancakes*

      Are there any publications or sources they respect? It sounds like they’re getting most of their “information” on this from acquaintances. There’s loads of info on the W.H.O. site, including videos, but if they want it come from a familiar face I doubt that will do much good. Hospitals are losing a lot of money from elective surgeries being canceled or postponed, so maybe seeking out articles about that / interviews with doctors would be useful. The Guardian series “Lost on the frontline,” which focuses on healthcare workers themselves, might be worth a look too. I haven’t read all of the series but I recall one article in particular, from mid-November, about 900 workers at the Mayo Clinic who’d tested positive over the preceding two weeks. The idea that healthcare workers, the media, and government officials all over the world are coordinating to fool everyone else is absurd, of course, but I’ve also read numerous articles about people arguing with the nurses caring for them until literally their last breaths.

    10. Tea and Sympathy*

      Can you use logic, death totals and Google? If people are dying from cardiac arrest but “they’re” listing it as Covid, then the number of people dying from cardiac arrest should be lower than usual. Same with the whole thing being overblown – if that’s the case then total deaths should be in the same range as usual.

    11. KAZ2Y5*

      Here is a report from the CDC about the number of excess deaths the US has had this year (I know you said you are in Canada, so don’t know if your parents would be impressed with this). Basically, the US has had approx 300,000 more deaths this year (from Jan thru Oct for this report) than we had in the same time period for the last few years. Obviously something is causing so many more people to die, and COVID is the most likely suspect.
      https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm?s_cid=mm6942e2_w

      Secondly, when people die there is more than one cause of death on the death certificate. There is the primary cause of death, a secondary cause of death and the underlying cause of death. A person can die of pneumonia, or sepsis, or a stroke – but these were caused by COVID so all these things will be on the death certificate. Here is an article about that.
      https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-94-percent-covid-among-caus/fact-check-94-of-individuals-with-additional-causes-of-death-still-had-covid-19-idUSKBN25U2IO

      And the person who died of a heart attack and was listed as a COVID death? Probably because COVID can cause heart problems.
      https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/can-coronavirus-cause-heart-damage

      And I wish you luck with all this because I have found out that people really can’t be convinced once they have dug in deep enough.

    13. Traffic_Spiral*

      I usually link them to a clip of Thom Tran going “My problem with the X-Files show is the alleged military involvement in alien cover ups. There’s always a black ops team hiding or killing aliens. You want me to believe that there’s a group of soldiers that knows there are aliens and didn’t tell anyone? We couldn’t keep the SEAL who shot Bin Laden from opening his mouth and you think a bunch of privates know there are aliens and kept it a secret? As an NCO I couldn’t keep my Joes from telling their stripper girlfriends the grid coordinates of our next op and you want me to believe they can keep their mouth shut about aliens?”

      Then question them a bit about how many people they’ve ever been able to coordinate into doing one thing, and ask them how they think anyone could coordinate the level of organization and conspiracy required to actually pull this off.

    14. Llama face!*

      Thanks everyone else who replied! I ran out of oomph to keep replying individually but appreciate all your ideas. Will try a few of these and see if I can make a dent!

  63. lazy intellectual*

    I was having a kind of random discussion with my friend and decided to extend it here to see what people think. For context, I’m speaking from the context of someone who is Asian American and grew up in an Asian community in the States.

    I am of the opinion that the concept of “nerd” solely applies to White people (particularly Americans). By “nerd”, I mean the way a lot of White Americans self identify when they label themselves as a “nerd” – intellectual, focused on academic achievement, and into stereotypical white nerd culture like comics and video games.

    The thing is, focus on academic achievement is ubiquitous in Asian/Asian-American cultures, and doing well in school doesn’t make one stand out. In other words, there is no “nerd” in Asian communities. (Obviously, white kids sometimes refer to the “Asian nerd” in their class but that’s different.)

    So what do y’all think?

    Also something I noticed is that both self identifying white nerd men and women tend to date Asians because it supports their nerd branding. I’m always getting pursued by geeky White guys (I’m a girl), which is kind of annoying because I’m not into them.

    1. Analyst Editor*

      So I’m not Asian myself, but I went to public school, and college, in communities and schools with large Asian populations, and a number of my close friends from that time are Asian-American themselves. According to my experience, there is a considerable dispersion in academic drive, performance, and ability, among Asian students as well as others. (Though significantly fewer behavioral problems and Special Ed kids.) The Asians in my schools were very divers – new immigrants and completely American; Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese; from Mainland China, HK and Taiwan; rich and poor; very Christian and not; etc. Hard to draw a broad brush.

      I did see a number of white boys, particularly those we might characterize as “nerds” (though among them were athletes and theater kids) date Asian girls; but when I took honors/AP classes, the girls were disproportionately Asian (boys it varied by subject; there were many Asian boys in STEM classes, fewer in humanities). In the case of what I observed, it might have been just the fact that a lot of girls who did as well academically and were into the same things (e.g. computers, math, Magic the Gathering, robotics) were also Asian, so I don’t know; it could also be an alignment of interests or just the pigeon-hole principle, in that if a boy is more likely to date someone in his class, and Asian girls are the majority of girls, he probably has a good chance of the girl he dates being Asian.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Are you saying that Asian Americans may be called “nerd” by people who aren’t AA, but AAs wouldn’t refer to each other as being “nerds”? I can see that to a certain extent, but I’ve been around enough other AAs to see a lot of the stereotypical jocks, nerds, theater nerds, etc. groups replicated within our own subgroups (an AA is not a monolithy by any means, anyway), so an AA jock who doesn’t do well in school very well may call another AA a “nerd.” But, yeah, there are a lot of AAs, especially the children of immigrants who feel a major pressure to do well in school and be “nerdy.” That said, the term “nerd” as an insult in high school doesn’t necessarily correlate exactly with academic success. If someone wants to bully you, and you look a little less stylish than other kids and have a pocket protector and acne, they may not really care what your GPA is—you may be doing terribly in your classes.

      That said, I’m a Gen X AA (child of immigrants), so I don’t know if things are wildly different for Gen Z.

      1. lazy intellectual*

        Yes to your first sentence. I’m a millennial. In my experience, Asian American high schoolers did not divide in the same way white people did. Some guys played football and did AP Calculus. Girls took AP calculus and dance classes, etc.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Also something I noticed is that both self identifying white nerd men and women tend to date Asians because it supports their nerd branding. I’m always getting pursued by geeky White guys (I’m a girl), which is kind of annoying because I’m not into them.

      Among heteros, there is still a huge prejudice against Asian men (and Black women), so I highly doubt there are a ton of straight white nerdy women going after nerdy Asian men to boost their nerd branding.

      1. lazy intellectual*

        Does this apply to South Asian men? A lot of white nerd girls I know are really into south Asian men. But I’m only one data point.

    4. lazy intellectual*

      A little bit of an add on – I’m not saying that all Asian Americans necessarily like or do well in school, but the emphasis on academics is ingrained enough in many Asian cultures that it’s not an anomaly to be into school. This isn’t a response to anyone, I just realized after my initial post that I may not have been clear.

      1. lazy intellectual*

        Also the term “nerd” when I grew up (early 2000s) was used to indicate ones own intelligence and usually adopted by pretentious people. So it’s not the classic insult as you see in some old movies.

    5. Elizabeth West*

      Disclaimer up front: I’m a Gen X white woman.

      I’ve seen two main designations flying around: nerd and geek. One of the best descriptions of it I’ve seen is that the nerd will tell you the name of the fourth hobbit from the left; the geek will dress as the fourth hobbit from the left. You can be just a nerd about a thing, just a geek about it, or both a nerd and a geek about it. Nowadays, most traditionally nerdy stuff —e.g. fandoms, comics, computers—has gone mainstream, which has diluted the criteria a little bit.

      I personally don’t necessarily think of academically inclined people as nerds, whether they’re Asian or not, and it wasn’t really a thing in my school growing up (which admittedly was in a small town and all white). A lot of the in-crowd were A students and even on the honor roll. But a person with nerd or geek tendencies had to be hot to sit at that lunch table.

      AFA the white dudes, there are definitely white men who fetishize Asian women, nerds or not.

      1. Teatime is Goodtime*

        Disclaimer up front: I am also a white woman a long way from high school.

        Elizabeth, I think your definition of geek vs. nerd is totally fascinating (and very amusingly put!), and I am glad you shared it. Unfortunately, in my experience, the definition of “geek” and “nerd” have been wildly different depending on the person. Who’s doing the naming and of whom? Even just pinning down if the terms are positive or negative, and which is which, has shown an huge spectrum in the various groups I’ve moved in. Which has been terribly confusing!

        In short, I do not think they are codified in any useful way, at least not in a way that is generalizable across all space, time, age groups and so on. Which brings me to my overall point to the question lazy intellectual asked: I have no input on the Asian-American side of this, but my first question would be whether or not the group you are talking about agrees on any sort of definition irrespective of the Asian-American vs white part.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I have never heard anyone self-identify as nerd or geek. But that is my limited experience talking.
        I have heard others identify someone else as a geek.

        To me a geek is someone who is totally immersed in their area of special knowledge, almost to the exclusion of learning other basic life things. My husband was a geek in my opinion. He went after science/tech. I brought him outside to help plant some plants. I almost had to tell him “Green side up!” he had no reference points because his immersion excluded other learning opportunities. He was the same with our pets. He got upset when he saw a pet do something and yelled for me. I ran. The pet was YAWNING. Not kidding, he had no reference points to realize animals yawn.

        Sadly, what I saw with my husband is that all this knowledge and immersion left him isolated. Very few people could follow what he was saying. Others were not sure how I survived it. It does not bother me that some people are way more intelligent than I will ever be. Actually this is a relief. I know the answers are not in my head, I have looked around in there for too long. So I was fine with it.

        In the process of knowing him and going through life with him, I realized he had a hard time developing meaningful relationships because the things he talked about were above people’s heads. If my husband found someone who could hold up their end of the conversation it did not matter what their background/heritage was. He was just plain happy to have someone to talk to on his level. So yes, super intelligent people will tend to seek out similar people, one of the reasons being the loneliness from realizing very few people understand what is going on in certain arenas.

        This ended up being a huge discussion in our household. Finally, he landed on the fact that he had to some how soften how he appeared to other people. One actionable suggestion I had was to talk about the cute thing the dog or cat did recently.

        All this to say, I am sure that some people are still not inclusive or are prejudice no matter how high their intelligence (supposedly) is. I spent long enough with my husband to know that if someone said they thought he was seeing a particular group of people as more intelligent than other groups of people, he would have been very upset. He would have wanted to know what he was doing that gave that impression and how he could change because that was nothing he was about. He felt our problems in some areas are so big that we need all hands on deck to contain the problems. That can’t be accomplished if some people are excluded.

    6. LGC*

      Black guy here! Also self described (and described by others as a) nerd here!

      I’ll agree that it’s kind of a White construct (as is a lot of stuff in American culture as we are still a majority White society), but I definitely wouldn’t call it exclusively White. I’ll admit I was the weird one in my family since I’m good at math but not at basketball (which was especially disappointing for my dad since I’m shaped like a basketball player). Funny enough, I was fairly athletic in other aspects-just in a relatively “nerdy” sport (track and field).

      I am not going to touch the fetishization of East Asian women with a ten foot pole because I’m so not qualified for that.

      1. LGC*

        Okay, so I typed my first reply out on my phone, but…yeah, I kind of raised my eyebrows a bit at your phrasing of the construct of the nerd as exclusively White, OP. (Like, I don’t think you meant that maliciously, but also.) And…honestly, this is a difficult topic to address, because I’m worried a ton about sounding like I’m throwing the Black Community™ under the bus. But I do remember as a kid being told that it was unusual for Black kids to be into certain things that I was interested in, and definitely repeatedly being the only Black kid in the room. But I don’t think it was necessarily exceptional from White culture – it was just that I was a “nerd” and also Black on top of that.

        IDK. I had literally five different answers typed out to this, but I guess what I think I should write is this:

        First, specific to America at least, we do pigeonhole people based on their appearance (fine, I’ll use the R-word because AAM is a fairly progressive site – we’re racist). “White” is kind of default, and we frame people in respects to that.

        Second, like…okay, I’ll give you that Asian cultures might not have a concept of a “nerd” as Americans have it, but they TOTALLY have a concept of “geeks” Americans would recognize. Like, “otaku” is a Japanese word, and if I remember correctly, it was originally as much of an insult as “geek” was in English!

        1. lazy intellectual*

          I did think about how Black people fit into all of this, but did not feel like I could address it without making possibly incorrect assumptions about Black people and how Black Americans perceive the “nerd” label. I can only speak to how the Asian American community I grew up with perceive it. Also in my experience, I’ve only seen white people adopt the label as a way to distinguish themselves from other white people. FWIW, I don’t really look at these people positively, so maybe it’s for the best I didn’t include Black people in this.

          The type of “nerd” I was referring to was the pretentious “hipster” type who thinks they are exceptionally more intellectual/informed than their peers, and are unique/superior for liking nerd culture stuff like comics and videogames. This is doubly true for white nerd girls, who tend to think of themselves as “not like other girls”. Meanwhile, most of the people I know in the AA community excels academically, studies STEM, etc without thinking they’re exceptional for doing so, because most of their peers do as well. This was the contrast I found kind of funny.

          Of course, many Black people are intellectual and excel at academics, but they don’t have the same pretention that White Nerds ™ do, IME, even if they identify as nerds.

          To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with liking nerd culture stuff, but I’ve personally had bad experiences with people in those communities.

          Anyway, a lot of this is my own narrow definition of self identifying nerds, which is admittedly colored by my own baggage (ie creepy white dudes), but I’m sorry for being guilty of erasing Black people from my post. I really appreciate you commenting.

        2. Roci*

          Yes, the popular YouTuber “Andre the Black Nerd” has talked about this, and I knew multiple people who called themselves “black nerds” in high school. Personally I think part of it is the double venn diagram circles of being a minority in the first place, and then “white” being the default so you stand out more. Then compound it with the racism and gatekeeping that is as common in nerd spaces as everywhere else.

          I think that stereotypes of Asian-Americans often overlap with stereotypes of nerds, and it makes sense that A-As themselves don’t necessarily consider themselves nerds.

    7. WS*

      I’m white, but went to a heavily Asian school (it was a pretty even divide between white and Asian, plus one family of Pacific Islanders). There were definitely nerds among the Asian students, but I do understand what you’re saying – you could get the top 10 students in any class, and you’d have a 90% chance that any given white kid was a nerd and maybe a 30% chance that any given Asian kid was. My school was also very into sporting achievement, and this was really exciting for some of the Asian kids who were good at sport, to get praised for something other than academics and related subjects like music. But my Dungeons and Dragons group was 50% Asian kids, and all my fellow girl nerds were Asian.

      Maybe you’re not seeing the Asian nerds because you’re not a nerd yourself?

      1. lazy intellectual*

        Like I said in my original post, the term doesn’t mean anything to me in itself. I mean, no – I’m not someone who is into DND and stuff. I did excel in academics and study STEM, but like I said this doesn’t make me a “nerd” necessarily.

  64. Chicken Gumbo Soup*

    One recipe from college. It’s easy, cheap, fairly nutritious, & tastes pretty good:
    1 pkg chicken pieces
    1 C uncooked rice
    2 cans Campbell’s chicken gumbo soup
    20 baby carrots

    Scatter the rice in bottom of 9×12” pan, place chicken & carrots on top, pour the 2 cans of soup on top (no water). Bake at 350 for one hour.

  65. Potatoes gonna potate*

    A final update —

    I finally sold my house! Closing was this week. After months of being jerked around it finally happened.

    this is what ended up happening —

    We had put our foot down and told them that they need to get a commitment letter by Friday or we’d cancel. They didn’t so we kept our word. My lawyer called the other lawyer, emailed him, sent him the formal notice and returned the check.

    While we had cancelled and begun showing the house, they were still trying to get the mortgage. Their lawyer had ignored alll of his emails and calls so he told us to tell the (old) buyers it’s off. we texted and emailed and told them that we’re following through on what we said and cancelled the deal and the their lawyer is aware of it all.

    Well that woke them up and led to a shitstorm of messages and calls and emails. Their lawyer apparently never told them about the cancellation and they still thought they were under contract with us. They said a lot of stuff that made me extremely livid.

    But Somehow they got a clearance to close. We took a huge risk and decided to reinstate. Apparently the termination letter and check had been sent certified mail but still got lost and never got to the other attorney.

    Here’s a funny — closing was confirmed for Thursday afternoon. My attorney informed me on Monday. Their attorney informed them Wednesday evening.

    Eventually we got to closing and everyone was laughing and shaking hands (!!!) at the end of it.

    Granted I’ve never sold a house but this has been the most bizarre experience ever. I’m chill now but while it was happening the term TSTL kept coming to mind for getting into this. Even our lawyer says that this is the strangest case he’s ever gotten.

    Now that it’s over, we’re relieved but I’m a bit sad too. This is my final weekend here. It sounds weird to say but I don’t have a whole lot of happy memories of growing up here – I “escaped” as soon as I could in the way that I could but got roped back in. To say the least, it’s been tumultuous over the years.

    With all that, it’s still a piece of childhood I’m letting go. But more so, I’m letting go of the last piece of my father as he had put his heart and soul into this house.

    1. Anono-me*

      Is there a perennial that you associate with happy memories of your childhood home?

      Also did your family do the measuring kids height on the door thing? If so maybe you want to switch out the door?
      (I know someone who did this and then cut off the edge with the marks. They hung it on the wall in each of their subsequent homes. )

      Congratulations on the sale and the next step in your life.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I set up my daughter’s measurements on an unfinished IKEA bookshelf for this reason. (A thought for the new potato)

        1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

          We did ours on a 2×2 board as a kid. It takes up no room in the closet. It was always a fun part of birthdays to get the measuring stick out and get it set up nice and square. Since we moved a few times, we would have had to leave the marks behind if they were on the wall.

          As a bonus, there were four of us kids and square boards have 4 sides.

    2. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      Wow, that went quick at the end! No wonder you have mixed feelings, you were gearing up to put it on the market and now everything is all DONE.

      It sounds like a good portion of the issue was that their lawyer was incompetent. I would be less than happy if my lawyer told me I was closing on a house the next afternoon, when he had known since Monday. Or if he didn’t bother to tell me that the other party had canceled and they had to contact me themselves. Not that it matters anymore, since you are done with the whole thing, but maybe you can be a bit less upset with the buyers.

      I’d keep an eye on that check or have it canceled or something. It’s probably in their lawyer’s office somewhere.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        At best someone definitely dropped the ball. At worst someone was lying. It’s really hard to tell what all happened.
        Potatoes, pushing back hard was indeed the answer here. Even in the hard push there were still problems. I think if you had not pushed hard you would still be going around in circles. So congratulations, good move on your part and congrats on the sale of the house.

        Grief is also for homes/houses. A house can take on its own personality and almost become another family member. This seems to hold even if the house was not a happy time in life. Actually some how that doubles the grief in my opinion.

        Time will be very kind. You will feel the warmth and safety of your new place and it will grow on you more and more. This will help to balance the sadnesses here. My father had two homes. Selling the second home hit me hard. Oddly, I don’t think selling my own house that I have now will hit me as hard as that did. More of that time is kind stuff.

        1. Potatoes gonna potate*

          Thank you so much for your kind words NSNR. I remember you mentioning something like this, so I know you could relate.

          Funny, this house holds memories for everyone in our extended family. My sibling “escaped” but for a lot of my cousins this was a childhood home, the center of all the family gatherings. Sadly everyone went their own way after my dad died, esp since they were his relatives.

      2. Potatoes gonna potate*

        I wouldn’t say incompetent – he’s a straight up asshole. The checks were handed to me personally which I deposited right away. Things ended on a good note I think, they apologized many times for how long it took and the things they said.

    3. Confused*

      I’m confused, I thought Alison didn’t allow blog style update posts anymore?

      (Also – shaking hands in the middle of a pandemic? Really?)

      1. Potatoes gonna potate*

        I posted links to where I asked but my understanding is that updates on advice asked is allowed. Forgot to post links in my original post.

        And yes I thought the hand shaking was weird as hell. But everyone wore masks so idk

      2. Double A*

        I’ve been following this saga for several weeks (which has involved questions and requests for advice along the way) and am glad for the update! It’s been a wild ride just reading it, can’t imagine how it’s been living it.

        1. Potatoes gonna potate*

          Thank you!! It was such a weird experience. Hopefully a once in a lifetime experience.

      3. Ask a Manager* Post author

        This is wrong. I specifically say, both in the rules and at the top of this post, that an update or two on past situations the person sought advice on are fine. Please read the weekend rules, and in the future please read any blue stickies at the top of the comment section, as they often contain info necessary to read before you comment:
        https://www.askamanager.org/weekend-open-thread-rules

        If you have a concern that someone isn’t following these rules, please flag it for me rather than attempting to act as a moderator yourself.

        1. Confused*

          I wasn’t “acting as a moderator”, i was genuinely confused and needed clarification. How do we flag something to you Alison? There’s no report button.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            There are instructions in the commenting rules I linked above — if you include a link in your reply, it’ll go through moderation so I’ll see it and take a look.

      4. Courageous cat*

        Yeah, agreed. It seems like updates are *not* allowed if you look at the top comment here, unless I misread. I get the desire, but the exceedingly long blog-style posts can get tedious.

        1. Courageous cat*

          Oh, guess I’m wrong (or it changed? I really thought it said no blog-style updates. Shrug) Nevermind

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I think you did misread. The top level comment says: “Comments on the weekend threads should ask questions and/or seek to discuss ideas. Recommendations or an update on things you received advice about in the past are also fine.” (The confusion might be that it also says no blog-style updates, meaning no ongoing updates about one’s life.)

          2. Confused*

            Potatoes’ houseselling saga has been going for weeks, if not months, surely that counts as an ongoing update?

      1. Potatoes gonna potate*

        Thank you! Definitely seems like he did. Or just didn’t give a hoot. He had a very weird attitude.

        1. Wm*

          Was that your moms place? Is she moving with you to your new house?? That all sounds like a crazy adventure and I’m glad it panned out!!

  66. WellRed*

    Is there a walkway stone or board or something you could take? Or maybe you don’t need anything to remember. Just a thought. And congrats. Wonder how long the buyers would have dragged on without ultimatum?

    2. Potatoes gonna potate*

      Thank you!

      Who knows – it could have gone in to New Years. I only wish I had taken action earlier but everyone kept saying it was normal to take so long.

  67. PhyllisB*

    Medical question: I just had a heart cath a couple of weeks ago (went well and the only issue was a 20% blockage in one spot.) The doctor recommended that I take one baby aspirin every day. The problem is: I have arthritis that flares up from time to time (the joys of getting older!!) and take either Tylenol or Ibuprofen for it. If I take my baby aspirin in the morning could I take the other say around lunchtime? Or take the pain reliever in the morning and the baby aspirin at night? I don’t need pain reliever very often; maybe a couple of times a week, but want to do it safely. Yes, I should have asked my doctor, but I didn’t think about it until after my final checkup.

    1. PollyQ*

      Not a doctor, but you should be able to take it with the Tylenol with zero problems, since it’s a different class of med. The Ibuprofen probably wouldn’t be a probelm either, given that people often take multiple doses of that throughout the day. Your pharmacist is also someone you can ask about this, even though none of the meds are prescription drugs.

      1. Squidhead*

        Agreed about the Tylenol, though also not a doctor. Ibuprofen can, in some cases, increase the risk of bleeding so you should probably ask your doctor whether it is advisable for you to avoid it (taking into account the rest of your medical history and medications etc…). But that’s not about the timing of the medicine during the day, that’s a general precaution.

    2. Purt’s Peas*

      You can definitely call your doctor and ask this, or send a message if you have an online portal!

    3. ....*

      You should ask your doctor by calling or emailing then. Unless there are practicing cardiologists here, no one can safely answer that for you.

    4. WS*

      Most of the time, people who take the baby aspirin have no trouble taking ibuprofen as well. However, since you already have an issue with a blockage, you should check with your doctor because both are blood thinners. You could also check with a pharmacist, who are trained to answer these kinds of questions! There are prescription alternatives to ibuprofen that your doctor might prefer you to take. Tylenol is fine, though.

    5. Girasol*

      I’ve always wondered whether taking ibuprofen on the regular would serve as a substitute for preventive baby aspirin, so you wouldn’t need to take both. Has anyone ever asked a doctor about that?

      2. ThatGirl*

        Aspirin specifically acts as a blood thinner, while ibuprofen does not. They work in different ways, and generally you can take both though it can’t hurt to consult a dr.

      1. PhyllisB*

        Not A Manager: thank you, we’re doing as well as can be expected. Grandson is back in jail (I recounted his escaping from prison a few weeks ago.) His hearing will come up soon and I’m sure he’s going to have time added to his 22 years. My son is in jail for shoplifting. Of course he asked us to bail him out but we refused. Besides, the fact that we live in another state means we can’t even if we want to. Well, we could, but would have to pay the full amount instead of the 10% bond.
        Even so, God is good and we have plenty to be thankful for.

        1. NoLongerYoung*

          sending you a hug, Phyllis. I am grateful the heart cath went well, and my heart breaks for the tough lessons being learned by your son and grandson. Virtual hug.

    7. Tea and Sympathy*

      Just in case you hadn’t thought of it, you can ask your pharmacist. They’re a great resource for things like this.

  68. Kimmy Schmidt*

    Men’s fashion! What are the ways you’ve upped your style game? What do stylish men’s clothes look like to you? Where do you find them? What pieces do you go for a more basic and classic look, and when do you take some fashion risks?

  69. TL -*

    So here’s a question that’s come up for me recently.
    I understand not wanting to get married, and I understand wanting a system that allows people to use significant but non-spousal/non-familial relationships as their primary support systems.

    What I’m struggling with, which has come up here recently, is people who don’t want to get married but want all the legal/social benefits of marriage. There’s a way to get there – getting married – and if you’re choosing not to get married, then like all choices, it comes at a cost.

    So that’s my question. If you’re choosing not to married, why would you want your relationship to legally mirror a marriage?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      After seeing how widows are treated in this country, I am curious too. I currently have two recently widowed friends. One is a lawyer. They are both appalled by all. the. hoops. our systems make them jump through when they are in their darkest hour.
      My lawyer friend is not a dull minded person at all. She is in tears trying to get through the processes and waiting on hold for someone to help her. I am having a very hard time figuring out what people think they are getting.

    3. Aly_b*

      I’m in Canada where we have very strong common law protections. My partner and I lived together for almost 10 years before we got married. It wasn’t a hesitancy thing – we liked each other and planned to be together, but saw no benefit to being married, and it seemed like a huge pain to do it! We finally got hitched before we moved to the states so we would maintain our existing legal rights. It was, in fact, a huge pain. The party was fun or whatever, but why on earth would I drag my family (even just my partner’s and my immediate families, who would have been very hurt had we not invited them, come from 3 different cities, all not where we live), just to be able to like be on each others’ insurance? It’s ridiculous! I mean, it’s nice if you’re into it, but for us (and for many of the pals we’ve talked to since in similar conditions), it was for expediency and has not changed our relationships or how we feel about them in any way.

      1. HBJ*

        You do realize you didn’t have to have a huge party and drag family and friends into it, right? Getting married can be as easy (in my state in the US) as making appointments to go get your marriage license and then make an appointment with a judge (in non-covid times). If you know your family would have fits, then just say “we’re getting married on x day at y time at z courthouse. You’re welcome to come if you can make it.”

        Done.

        1. TL -*

          Seconding. A wedding is not an inherent part of a marriage (and I would argue has completely different social implications.)

          You can get married fairly quickly and cheaply and with no more fuss than getting your driver’s license changed to a new state if you want to.

        2. Traffic_Spiral*

          Also while it’s a PITA to plan a wedding, most family members are perfectly happy to show up to one unless you really did plan the most guest-unfriendly party out there, or your family doesn’t like each other. Who needs to be dragged to a family reunion party that’s gonna have food, drinks, and dancing?

    4. MinotJ*

      I’ve been with my partner for eight years. We don’t want to get married but we know we’ll have to eventually. He’s on my health insurance, but that’s a tax nightmare. We also want to be able to get into the hospital room if the other is sick (we’re in our 40s/50s, so it’s gonna happen soon-ish). One of these years we’ll finally go down to the courthouse and do the legal thing.

      But we really would prefer a domestic partnership. Marriage is such a big deal! We’ve each been in long-term relationships that have ended and we know we could end, and getting a divorce is an even bigger deal than marriage. We don’t care about (as you put it) the social benefits and I doubt we’d make any kind of announcement at all. No kids, so that’s not an issue.

      I don’t want my relationship to “legally mirror a marriage”; I just want my health insurance costs to go down and for him to be able to visit me in the hospital. I don’t want a whole marriage to go along with those things.

      1. TL -*

        I guess my thing is that the cheaper health insurance rates and – not always visitation rights but certainly decision-making rights for hospitalization are benefits of marriage (or next-of-kin relationships.) And by chosing not to marry, you certainly avoid the possibility of a difficult divorce, but that comes at the cost of the legal benefits, and I think that’s a reasonable trade off?

        1. MinotJ*

          Yeah, it’s a trade-off that we’ve decided on for now. But I guess I wonder why it’s such a big deal on your side? Why do you care so much? It seems like our life maybe bothers you? We’re not really legally entangled. I own my car and my house. He owns his car and his stuff. If we broke up, it would suck, but he would move out and it wouldn’t be a legal issue. And it wouldn’t be a big deal when friends found out – we’d never stood up and promise to do this forever.

          We’ve seen so many marriages crumble, so why are they held up as such a backbone of society? Neither of us ever wanted kids, so what benefit does our marriage bring to society at large? Geez, I want a domestic partnership.

          1. TL -*

            Definitely not speaking about any relationship in particular; I was just really surprised when I saw a number of comments stating that they wanted legal rights of marriage without getting married and am trying to understand what the rationale is there. To me, those rights are accessible, if you want them, and if the trade-off is too great, then that’s a choice you’re making.

            I’m not arguing that marriage is the backbone of society and I’m certainly not arguing that people should get married. My point is simply that the choice to get married (or to not get married) is exactly that – a choice. Which comes with trade-offs whichever way you choose.

            I’m also a bit confused, because I don’t see how a domestic partnership would legally differ from a marriage should they be recognized by the federal government. Wouldn’t it just be a rose by any other name?

            1. Traffic_Spiral*

              I think it’s the same principal as the cable TV bundles – sometimes you just want one channel.

              Now, me, I’m a lawyer, so my policy is very “if you want the government (and/or government-regulated entities like insurance) to legally recognize a relationship between you and your partner, then go down and fill out the paperwork that legally designates you as such.” So if you want the big bundle, that’s marriage, otherwise pick out your forms for guardianship, POA, medical representative, etc.

              The problem is that it’s way more difficult to fill out the paperwork for the pick-and-choose stuff, and most people hate complicated paperwork.

        2. Millicent*

          So you think people should have to get married to get access to better and cheaper health insurance?

          1. Filosofickle*

            +1
            I get that the government has decided that marriage is good for the country and therefore must be incentivized. But that has created some weird consequences and inequities.

          2. TL -*

            I mean, that gets to a bigger question about how our health insurance should be distributed/how insurance gatekeeping should work. I don’t think marriage is the issue here.

          1. TL -*

            There are many people who I don’t want to be making my decisions for hospitalizations! (Including someone who I think would have decision making power – I need to figure out how to manage that so they won’t be able to.)

            Ideally, everyone would identify their ‘person’ before they’re needed – but lots of people with terminal illnesses don’t do end of life planning, much less your averagely healthy Joanna, and I have no idea how that paperwork would be managed – I presume the hospital would need to have the paperwork before handing over decision-making power.

            So I don’t know if it’s a benefit as much as it is a necessity. Someone has to make the decisions, the hospital has to have a legal justification for whose decision they abide by, and it’s often in a time-sensitive and stressful situation.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              But there’s no reason it needs to favor marriage in the way it currently does.

              More broadly, though, I’m wondering what benefit you see of gatekeeping all the various benefits of marriage in the way we do. You’ve been saying that if you want the benefits of marriage, you can get married and don’t have grounds to complain otherwise. But most of those things don’t need to be linked to marriage. As I alluded to below, it sounds a bit like “these are the rules we decided on a long time ago and if you don’t like them, we’ve offered you this solution — get married” … but a lot of people are saying it’s worth pushing back on some of those rules.

              1. TL -*

                I think there’s two different questions here.

                One is “why is the only legal path to this kind of rights/responsibilities through a legal/social commitment made for (though not technically restricted to, with the exception of immigration) romantic relationships?”

                The other is the one I asked, which is “if these rights are available to you, and you’re choosing not to access them, then why are you upset when you don’t have them?”

                I think you see these questions as more entangled than I do – I don’t think saying that you want your romantic partner to have some/all the rights of marriage without actually getting married is a strong argument for the first issue (because there is a pathway built for that and because there is a well-established way to modify that pathway through a prenup.*) And I don’t see that much legal difference between civil unions/domestic partnerships and marriages should they all be recognized at the federal level, even if we as a society decide that marriages are romantic and civil unions are for non-romantic relationships.

                So yes there should be an alternative pathway; why should that pathway be built around romantic relationships? Or, if the rights should be completely disentangled from either relationship, how do we want those rights distributed – not in a detailed way, but I guess, what would be the general pathway?

                Some rights may not be necessary, but some certainly are, and while the government tied them to marriage intentionally, they also coincided in a time when a lot of industries, like the medical industry, were getting much more regulated after massive violation of individual rights, and that a legal structure had to be set.

                *in the USA.

                1. pancakes*

                  People wanting to change things about the way their health insurance, hospital visitation rights, etc. are structured aren’t necessarily “upset” in the way you seem to be taking for granted. I don’t doubt some are, but there are always going to be people feeling feelings that you don’t find relatable, or to a degree that you think is excessive in some way. I don’t see how any one person in either of those broad categories could claim to speak on behalf of all the rest even if they wanted to try, anyhow.

                2. TL -*

                  @pancakes that’s why I asked in the open thread – lots of different perspectives to consider here, not just one person speaking for an entire group of people.

      2. Double A*

        I guess I don’t see why marriage is a bigger deal than otherwise deeply entangling your lives emotionally and finacially. I guess divorce is harder than a standard break up, but not really if you own property together. Definitely not if you have kids together.

        Now, if you’re not very financially entangled, and don’t want to take on joint liabilities, but do want some benefits, I can see that being a reason.

    5. Nassan*

      Because marriage is something that I see as strongly connected to patriarchy and religion. But I live in a country where a civil union (wether official or de facto) is almost equal to marriage though you sometimes need to jump through some hoops to get the benefits.

      1. TL -*

        This is perhaps US-specific; domestic partnerships are pretty rare here and the federal government doesn’t recognize them at all. Most states have been moving away from recognizing common law marriages (which I think are federally recognized but only if your state recognizes them) over the past few decades, as marriage became more accessible to all heterosexual couples and domestic partnerships really only showed up at the state level as alternatives to marriage for non-heterosexual couples. I think both have lost popularity as marriage has become available to the groups that were using.

        Though to be honest, I don’t really get the appeal of a civil union/domestic partnership if it’s just marriage under a different name, unless there’s tax benefits to not being married (this was a big driver in lowering Sweden’s marriage rates) or there’s significant barriers to divorce that don’t exist for civil unions (NZ has a two year separation period for divorce but not for domestic partnerships.)

        That being said, for the latter, I would not be okay with that being a reason for someone to not want to marry me, but that’s very much a personal preference!

        1. D3*

          You completely ignored Nassan’s main point: Marriage is tied to religion and patriarchy.
          You can want the rights of partnership and NOT want to participate in an institution so embedded in religion and patriarchy.

    6. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I think the legal and the social are very different, though. My partner and I aren’t married– I can’t really give a great reason as to why, but there’s some family stuff in there– and I am fully aware we don’t have the legal protection of marriage. The older we get, the more I think we should do it just for that. But our finances are separate, we have no kids, our insurance is mostly separate (he’s on my car and renters, just for convenience).

      But socially? I’d be pretty irritated if we were treated as single socially. We live together and have done for 10 years. A former friend apparently decided to cut us off because we’re not married, and I do not respect her decision because it’s stupid. She was fine with us for years, then she got married and we were no longer worthy of her time. Most people don’t care, some don’t even know we’re not married (our rabbi always forgets).

      So basically, I agree with you about the legal thing– if I want certain protections and privileges, I should make it legal– but I think it matters much less socially.

      1. TL -*

        To be fair, socially, I would say there’s usually very little difference. I do know it matters to some people, though usually for religious reasons; that being said I agree it’s incredibly rude to treat unmarried couples as singles instead of a unit!

        That being said, all others thing equal, I know I tend to think of married couples as slightly more committed in my head, though this becomes less and less a factor the longer a couple has been together. And it’s definitely not always true; there *lots* of variables here. But I do think it can make a slight difference in social perceptions in some situations.

    7. Filosofickle*

      I haven’t thought this through yet so my argument may not hold water…just talking out loud.

      My government, sure, they can set up the structures they want to set up. If I choose not to marry I don’t get those tax/legal benefits. (Though TBF we might actually end up with higher tax penalties if married.) And ultimately if my long-term partner and I marry it will be to make financial, legal, and health matters more simple. A good lawyer can set those pieces in place without a marriage certificate, but it’s harder. This is a choice we will weigh at some point. So yes whether I agree or not, it’s a choice I make and it has consequences. Fine.

      To provide context for the rest of my thinking, I should explain that I view marriage as we know it in the US as rooted in religion. So, personally, I wish the government only offered domestic / civil partnerships and left marriage to the church and religion. IMO we mix church and state here. Of course I realize I can get married at the courthouse and have it be religion-free, but this to me is a lot like the Christmas tree argument. I can say it’s secular, but the roots are clearly religious and patriarchal.

      Where the marriage issue has come up here recently is workplace privileges, and that’s where my objection comes in. Why should my employer decide that one kind of relationship is legitimate and another is not? Why does this quasi-religious institution have any bearing on my work benefits? If my employer is declaring that only only one kind of relationship is good/right/moral and therefore legitimate — well, that bothers me. I’m not sure I have put my finger on the exact argument yet but that’s where my head is.

      1. TL -*

        I do agree that a lot of the social constructs around marriage are rooted in patriarchy, but to be honest, I don’t think switching the terminology would change anything about that. I wouldn’t be opposed to trying, nor would I care if we came up with different names for the legal and social/religious commitments. But I also think the only immutable parts of a marriage are the legal parts, and everything else is up to the couple to negotiate with each other and with their community, so that might be influencing it a lot.

        As for the workplace privileges – well, they have to draw a line somewhere, particularly since they control access to things like insurance, which aren’t cheap to provide. Legal next-of-kin, legal family, and/or legal immediate family is a reasonable place to draw those lines. I don’t think it’s the employer necessarily saying “this relationship is good/right/moral”; it’s more them saying, “here there is a legal bond that provides a convenient, easily understood boundary.” In one way, it actually removes the judgment from the situation; it’s either a qualifying situation or it’s not, and your company’s feelings on the morality or goodness of the relationship in question don’t come in to play at all.

    8. Not A Manager*

      This is an interesting question. Not meaning to be snarky at all, but I’m curious what “legal/social benefits” of marriage you think unmarried but committed people are asking for?

      In the thread I think you’re referencing, it was, as you say, about having a primary support system. I think that many people in non-marriage relationships would like a simple way to have, say, visitation rights in the hospital, or the ability to take leave from work to care for another person, or even the right to attend to/make decisions about a minor child that is not your own child by birth, marriage or adoption but who is a part of your family structure.

      Note that in all of those cases, the people might not even be in “marriage lite” relationships. They could be housemates, neighbors, or distant relatives. And it sounds to me like you understand why those people would want the quote-unquote “marriage” perks to apply to their important (perhaps primary) relationship.

      So what are the other benefits that you think non-married people are aspiring to? I assume that you’re imagining non-married but coupled partners (unlike, say, a poly relationship, where marriage would be unavailable, or platonic housemates or distant relatives where marriage would be inappropriate). You’re talking about people who COULD get married but DON’T get married. What benefits do you specifically see them desiring that they could easily get if they chose to get married?

      1. fhqwhgads*

        And dovetailing from this, it seems like something inherent in the way the question was asked is the implication these people want ALL the “benefits” of marriage but do not want marriage. My experience has been generally people opposed to getting married specifically do not want a lot of what marriage entails – but do want maybe one or two things. So for them the math they’re doing is “is (all that marriage entails but which I don’t want) an acceptable trade for hospital visitation” (or health insurance or whatever the desired thing it is). It’s not “I want everything that marriage is but not to be married”. At least not that I’ve ever encountered.

      2. TL -*

        The rights you mentioned – hospital visitation (and with that, I presume medical decision making in many cases), benefits, time off for caring, etc… If you are in a long term romantic partnership, those rights are available to you and you’re choosing to forego them. This is more coming from the discussion in the comments than the question itself, though.

        Yes, there’s a discussion to be had about people who are not in long-term relationships and how to ensure they have rights within their support systems (though technically you don’t have to be in an sexual or romantic relationships to be married; you could just marry a close friend and live separately if you wanted – however, there are real emotional, cultural, and social barriers to that. I don’t think I would be able to!) But I think that’s separate from what I’m asking, which is, if you’re making a choice to abstain from the legal commitment that would grant you those rights, why ask for them to be given to you separately? There’s already a pathway to them.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Well, because people may have good reasons for not wanting to take that pathway. Marriage is supposed to be about a lifelong commitment, not tax benefits. If you don’t want to make a lifelong commitment, you shouldn’t — but that doesn’t mean there’s a good reason to then close off those benefits to you, other than “those are the rules.” And “those are the rules” isn’t a very good argument when people are asking why.

          A lot of the benefits of marriage came about decades ago because the government felt it had an interest in promoting a very specific type of family unit. I think a lot of us feel that that’s misguided.

          1. TL -*

            I actually disagree with marriage being a lifelong commitment! I would define it as commitment to a specific, prominent place in your spouse’s life, which may or may not last. You can absolutely personally consider it a lifelong commitment, of course; but plenty of people don’t.

            Sure, there’s tax benefits, but things like hospital visitation, medical decision making, caretaking, even insurance – those are all things we tie to a very long-term commitment, so it makes sense to me that some of these things (insurance not included here) is tied to marriage, because when you marry someone, you’re committing to taking on those responsibilities for them.

            I may not know enough about the legal benefits of marriage, but I find it hard to think of one (besides tax breaks) that don’t make sense for someone in the position of a spouse to have. Even the insurance issue is much more about the larger issue of how we distribute insurance than about what relationships are eligible.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I think most people do consider it to be intended to be a lifelong commitment (even though obviously that doesn’t always work out). I would be surprised to learn otherwise; I think it’s a pretty standard part of the definition for the majority of people!

              1. TL -*

                I would argue that the intention is one thing, but the actual commitment is another. Perhaps you could say that marriage, as practiced currently in the USA, is at least a strong a commitment to a particular position in a person’s life, for however long that lasts, as it is a lifelong commitment. (I also don’t think that a divorce inherently means a marriage has failed, either. It could just be that you’re no longer the right fit for those positions anymore.)

                But, hey, my family is *incredibly* bad at marriage, so my whole perspective could be skewed.

                1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  I really don’t think most people would say marriage is not intended to be a lifelong commitment. So getting back to the original point — you’d asked, “If you’re making a choice to abstain from the legal commitment that would grant you those rights, why ask for them to be given to you separately? There’s already a pathway to them.” (And I think that’s the crux of the original question you posed too.) My answer is because people may have good reason for not making what’s intended to be a lifelong commitment.

            2. merope*

              If marriage isn’t intended to be a lifelong commitment, then why not replace it with a limited-term domestic contract? People could sign up for a year, or 10 years, or some other term, and the exit strategy could be built in. Why does it have to be marriage?

            3. Roci*

              I think most people think of marriage as “one person, this person, for life”. Yes many people divorce and cheat and open their marriages and so on, but that’s not usually what the wedding vows say, is it? We call divorce a “failure of marriage”, and I don’t know of any kind of marriage that comes with a time limit, despite the popularity of “vow renewal” ceremonies.

              I agree that people in long-term committed partnerships can’t really complain if they don’t get the benefits of a partnership they’re qualified for, but I also think more marriages would be much healthier and romantic relationships and people’s health in general would be better if we didn’t rely on one person as primary support in all areas–emotional, sexual, domestic, care-giving, financial, etc.

        2. Not A Manager*

          “if you’re making a choice to abstain from the legal commitment that would grant you those rights, why ask for them to be given to you separately? There’s already a pathway to them.”

          Legal marriage is a big bundle of rights, as you say, but also of imposed responsibilities that might not be appropriate for everyone. People with separate assets might not want to expose themselves to spousal maintenance in case of separation. People living in community property states might not want their previously separate assets to be treated as community property after marriage. People with children from a previous relationship might want to preserve inheritance rights for the kids. People in community property states might not want to undertake their spouse’s debt incurred during a marriage.

          Yes, you can contract around some (but not all) of those imposed responsibilities, but it can be onerous and expensive, and some of them can’t be contracted around. So people might want to preserve the financial status quo of being single, but still have a strong emotional and relational commitment that makes it appropriate to, say, care for each other during an illness, or make medical decisions if the other person can’t do it, or make decisions for a minor child if the legal parent isn’t available.

          And as you allude to, marriage has societal, cultural and religious implications that not everyone is comfortable with. Some people see marriage as a lifetime commitment that they don’t actually want to make, or they find an expectation of monogamy that feels inauthentic to them, or it resonates with patriarchy, or with expectations of childrearing. Some people come from families of origin that modeled unhealthy and unhappy marriages, and they don’t want to be in a relationship with the same label.

          But all of those people might want SOME of the rights and SOME of the responsibilities that go with a marriage contract. It’s facile to say that if they want one or two things out the bundle of marriage obligations, they have to sign up for all of them. You don’t know everyone’s circumstances, and “I would prefer not to” is a perfectly good reason.

          1. TL -*

            Just to your last sentence – I’m not trying to interrogate anyone’s specific relationship, just looking for the various reasonings behind it. If I was speaking to a specific person about their specific relationship, of course I wouldn’t be interrogating the reasons. I asked in the open thread specifically for that reason; it’s a good place to solicit opinions from people who are interested in this conversation.

    9. RagingADHD*

      I kind of wonder about this as well, particularly as the options can vary significantly by state and some of them are far harder to sort out afterwards than a divorce.

      I had a client a few years back who told me how she got absolutely hosed in a lawsuit, because her partner claimed he was her common-law husband. But there are no standards in her state for common-law “divorce.” If they’d been married, her premarital assets would have been much better protected.

    11. peasblossom*

      I think part of the difficulty here is that you’re thinking about non-married partnerships in very limited ways. The examples you’re describing mirror a conventional marriage, but there are a lot of people for whom those partnerships would are dramatically different from marriage as it’s typically practiced in the US. For example, there’s an entire critique of the heteronormativity of marriage in queer communities that means that even with gay marriage being legalized some people don’t want it or find that marriage doesn’t fit into their identity. (Full disclaimer, I don’t speak for all gays, think that gay marriage doesn’t have to be heteronormative, etc. but do think that marriage itself is embedded in structures that are patriarchal and heteronormative. That just means I think that marriage should be approached with real caution.)

      I think you’re acknowledging, but then breezing by the points about marriage as patriarchal or religious or heteronormative. The reality is that these are big deals to a lot of people. Once you acknowledge that I think it’s much easier to understand.

      1. TL -*

        The sticking points on those for me is I don’t see how a civil union that is everything a marriage is legally, just under a different name, would change anything about the patriarchal/heteronormative/religious elements that people are objecting to.

        To me, addressing those issues is fundamentally a societal expectations/perceptions issue, not a legal issue about equity and rights (thanks to the efforts of RGB and other feminist leaders who have done the legwork there.) So I’m not convinced that offering a civil union that is a marriage in all but name would actually do anything to combat those issues.

        I’m not ignoring those points; I do understand them and I’ve read some queer theory on the subject, but my takeaway from it isn’t that legal unions are inherently bad (or good; they’re not for everyone), but that they’re not inherently the issue.

        1. peasblossom*

          Because civil unions have different institutional affiliations, language, and history? Traditions, history, and social institutions matter. The difference between a civil union and a marriage is not just language. People are telling you this repeatedly in the thread so it feels disingenuous to say you’re not ignoring those points when your responses seem to be “Yes, but let me repeat my point.” Marriage has a particular history. Civil unions have a particular history. There are queer activists pushing for more forms of legal protection for people who don’t want civil unions (because they’re poly, or aromantic, or any number of other reasons) or marriages precisely because of those histories. If that’s not something you’ve encountered in your queer theory reading, you might consider doing a little more research.

          1. TL -*

            I have encountered this stuff (it’s very possible I’ve read everything you’d want me to read and have still come out with a different conclusion that you have – research is about interpretation as well as information); that’s why I specifically centered my questions around couples who were eligible for marriage instead of asking the broader questions around expanding those benefits.

            When I lived in a place where there were easily accessed civil unions and marriage, there wasn’t a lot of difference in how the couples were treated socially/in the gender dynamics at play, which is why I’m asking specific questions about it – I’m repeating because I wasn’t getting that question addressed. (random toast’s experience was different than mine, so that was good context to have.)

    12. D3*

      Because religion tries to dictate what religion is and isn’t. Even for those who do not believe in their religion, they want to control the definition.
      Because “traditional marriage” was about ownership and possession of the woman, and not about true partnership.
      Because you don’t want to participate in a ceremony you don’t believe in, but you still deserve to have your relationship acknowledged and respected.
      There’s a LOT of loaded meaning to marriage that doesn’t sit well with people.
      You’re very much coming off as “why don’t all those people just get married like I think they should?!?!?” and it’s not a good look.

    13. Analyst Editor*

      I wondered a similar thing. I think your question is a very interesting one, and also interesting how vehement the responses are. Makes you wonder if it’s really just about the tax breaks and the health insurance, or if there’s something more there.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        And I am still not seeing much information on how married people have advantages. After my own experience with processing a spouse’s estate and watching others with theirs, I often wonder why anyone would want this.

        1. TL -*

          There are over 1000 legal benefits attached to marriage. They don’t necessarily make the bureaucracy easier to manage, but they afford a lot of protection for the spouse.

    14. Bride in name but not in role*

      Because marriage is societally considered as a religious and lifelong commitment, and I don’t want any part of that. Marriage has a long patriarchal history which gives it weight and prominence in our culture, and I find that abhorrent. I just want be treated as equals with people who feel they can make that commitment without compromising their integrity. The current situation treats me as less than because my values do not include making a lifelong commitment to another person as vitally important, and I think that is unreasonable, unfair, unkind and unacceptable.

      For me the question is why on earth should marriage be given such a special position? It’s just one way of being. The way it is prioritised is based in a long history of religious values that I cannot and will not espouse.

    15. allathian*

      An adjacent question, is it possible to grant a medical power of attorney in the US that would include visitation rights?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        My friend just had surgery. He had to go through the same paperwork my husband did for me. No difference. Once in place, it was the same as it was with my husband. I was allowed in the room at any time, I was allowed to talk to anyone regarding his care, etc. I did not see any difference, both people had to fill out the same paper work, regardless of relationship status. My husband did not escape having to fill out all the forms.

      2. TL -*

        I think so, but hospitals don’t always respect that in emergencies (maybe this has changed recently because many of the high profile cases were clearly driven by homophobia?)

        So yeah, can be set up, but in an emergency, it’s not unusual for a hospital to default to next of kin having visitation/decision-making authority.

    16. random toast with butter*

      Because being married has both legal and social repercussions. Some people want on the legal benefits – insurance etc, without the social implications. if I am officially married, my parents, grandparents etc treat me differently. It is naive to pretend there is no social implication to marriage. Also, marriage is not available to all people in a relationship. Ask anyone who is polyamorous.

      1. TL -*

        That’s fair enough; do you then think a civil union would be treated differently socially, or that the rights should be more easily accessible piecemeal? (Just curious here.)

        1. random toast with butter*

          My experience is that: marriage is absolutely treated differently than common-law/civil partnership is, at least in the grander social sense.

    17. Sam Foster*

      Maybe their shouldn’t be legal/social benefits to a one kind of contract, like marriage, that isn’t available to others through an alternate contract?

    18. WS*

      Because I’m still angry that my government put same-sex marriage to a public vote, which was excruciatingly stressful and awful for us. On our twentieth anniversary, no less. And because in Australia it doesn’t matter whether or not you’re married, the legal rights and responsibilities are the same.

      To turn your question around, if the rights are the same whether or not you’re married, why would you want to get married? For a big party? To fulfil some heteronormative expectation?

      1. TL -*

        Sure, if the rights were the same whether or not you’re married, I’d get married for the social/cultural/emotional aspects.

        But in the USA, they’re not the same; there’s really only marriage or (in 7 states) common-law marriage at the federal level; some states have domestic partnerships/civil unions but they’re not recognized federally.

    19. TL -*

      I don’t know if anyone will check this, but thank you to everyone who commented! Lots of food for thought here – I really appreciate it!

  70. Chaordic One*

    Does anyone have any good suggestions for how to use cabbage in recipes? I’m not a big fan of slaw and I was thinking more along of the lines of soups or stews or casseroles or maybe a stir-fry.

    1. Llama face!*

      Mennonite style borscht! Look up the Mennonite Girls Can Cook! website and search for summer borscht
      I also have used it in a fake* foo yung kind of meal in place of bok choy or similar.
      *my lazy approximation

      1. Chaordic One*

        This is very good website that I’d never heard of. Their Ukranian Borscht and Cabbage Borscht recipes sound just like what I’m looking for.

    2. Reba*

      Cabbage soup is a great, inexpensive winter dish! Any vegetable soup approach works. I’m not a fan of like, just cabbage soup, but often add it to a tomato based mixed-veg soup or a lentil soup.

      The best way to eat it IMO is roasted at high heat in wedges or rounds. Then serve that on top of soup, lentils, potatoes, whatever.

      There is a cabbage casserole on Smitten Kitchen that looks pretty serious.

      1. Girasol*

        Yes, soup! Any meat-based soup like chicken or beef is perfect for cabbage, and a nice cheese soup goes well with cabbage too. It’s also good in stir fries.

      2. Chaordic One*

        You’re both right about adding roasted wedges to soups, in particular. The cabbage and sausage casserole on Smitten Kitchen sounds very good, as does their Cabbage and Mushroom Lasagna.

    3. Purt’s Peas*

      Bigos is a good meaty stew with cabbage and sauerkraut; I use the allrecipes/Chef John/Food Wishes recipe. My husband makes really good okonomiyaki—cabbagey pancakes with savory toppings. Cabbage cooked slowly, covered, with some onion makes a sweet, lovely side dish—good fairly plain, but Moosewood has a recipe where you stew the cabbage and onion with cider and cider vinegar. Also, maybe this is better with Napa cabbage than regular, but don’t underestimate it as a sturdy salad-greens replacement, in something like a Caesar salad.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Bigos is indeed a good meaty stew. I had never before heard of okonomiyaki and it is definitely something I’m going to experiment with. I love Moosewood recipes and the cider vinegar sounds like just the thing to add a bit of zest to the flavor of cooked cabbage and onion as a side.

        1. pancakes*

          They can both be very good. My stepbrother’s Polish wife sometimes makes bigos, and there are several Japanese restaurants and groceries in my area. I’m happy with okonomoyaki take-away, from a mix, or DIY. You can vary the ingredients and I like it with a lot of scallions. There’s a good recipe on Food52 I’ve used several times, and there’s one at JapanCentre dot com that looks good (but I haven’t tried yet).

          The best cabbage if you can get it or grow it is hispi, in my opinion. It’s so good sliced and sautéed with just butter, s&p. Maybe a little freshly grated nutmeg, or some sesame oil & toasted seeds. It has a distinctive pointy, conical shape.

    4. Alex*

      If you are not vegetarian, google “Bavarian hot pot”. There is a great recipe that simmers cabbage with carrots, potatoes, green beans, peas, and kielbasa (or similar sausage) in beef broth. It is SO good.

      Cabbage is also great roasted–slice, brush generously with olive oil, salt, and pepper, and roast in the oven until tender. Or, you can place roughy chopped cabbage in a large frying pan that has a lid, with a little water at the bottom and dot with butter. Cook until the water is cooked away and the cabbage is tender, and add salt and pepper.

      I also make a great casserole with cabbage:
      Saute an onion with a pound of ground beef or sausage or turkey
      Add a can of crushed tomatoes, a crushed clove of garlic, and some oregano. Simmer for a little bit.
      Meanwhile, in a large pot, saute sliced or roughly chopped cabbage with a generous amount of butter and/or olive oil, until tender.
      Cook some rice.
      Layer a casserole dish with a layer of cabbage, a layer of the meat/tomato mixture, then rice, then cheese. Layer until you finish the ingredients, then sprinkle with panko and some more shredded cheese. Dot with butter (optional). Bake in oven for 30 minutes.

      If you don’t want all that trouble, try an “unstuffed cabbage roll” recipe–usually meat, tomatoes, and cabbage cooked together.

      I also like to put a generous amount of cabbage in my fried rice. I like to use the vegetable fried rice recipe from the website Cookie and Kate.

      In case you can’t tell, I LOVE cabbage. I think it might be my favorite vegetable.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Bavarian Hot Pot? Something I’m going to have to try. Thank you for reminding me about roasting and frying and the casserole recipe.

      1. Chaordic One*

        The unstuffed cabbage rolls are something I’m definitely going to try, and they do sound easy.

    6. Chicken Gumbo Soup*

      Cabbage onions & sausage:
      1 head cabbage, sliced
      1 onion, sliced
      1 Polska Kielbasa, sliced
      1-3 Tbsp apple cider vinegar
      salt, pepper, oil

      Brown the sausage slices, remove from pan. Brown onions & cabbage. Add sausage back into pan, add vinegar, salt, pepper to taste & cook about 15 minutes.

    8. Double A*

      Cabbage is really good if you slice it (like 1 inch or less strips), toss it with some olive oil, salt and pepper, and just roast it on a sheet pan. Probably 375, about 15 minutes? Just until it starts getting a little brown.

      Half a head feeds 2 people generously.

    10. Natalie*

      You can roast cabbage. Cut the head into quarters or eights depending on how big it is and roast it like any other brassica.

      1. peasblossom*

        yes! one of my favorite cabbage recipes involves just roasting and topping with walnuts and parmesan. Hazan’s cabbage soup (mentioned below) is also to die for.

    11. pieforbreakfast*

      Sweet and sour cabbage – basically sautéed with balsamic and cider vinegars. Or cut cabbage into slabs, lightly oil and roast on a baking sheet with potatoes and sausage.

    12. Redhairedrunner*

      Sautéed with onions it makes a great side dish. Stuffed cabbage rolls are also a great winter treat that freeze fairly well.

    13. university minion*

      Sauerkraut is simple to make, keeps forever, and can be added to any number of dishes. If all you’ve ever had is store bought and think it smells/tastes gross, make it at home (and you can chill it before it gets too strong if you like it milder).

      Beyond that, yes! Add it to stir-fries. I also like to cook it with apples. If you eat pork, that is an excellent side dish with pork chops. It’s also an excellent late addition to vegetable soup, minestrone or bean/veg soup.

    15. Chaordic One*

      Thank you, everyone. These really are some good suggestions and I appreciate your reminding of a few things I had forgotten about and bringing some new ideas to my attention.

    16. Anona*

      Nebraskan runzas are filled bread (dough stuffed with chopped cabbage, meat, cheese, and spices). Shauna Sever has a good recipe (but I recommend upping the spices).

      Budget bytes has a great sheet pan dinner of cabbage, sausage, potato, and a mustard vinaigrette.

      Yum!

    17. Sparkly Librarian*

      I am currently eating cabbage soup! One of my favorite things about a head of cabbage is that it lasts a long time in the fridge, so I don’t have to use it right away… but it was definitely time to use this up, so since I was making soup anyway, I tossed it in. This week’s creation was chicken-rice soup with cabbage, carrots, and yellow squash. I’ve also done it with spinach.

      My recommendation: saute the cabbage for a while before you add it to the soup pot. I find it turns sweeter that way than if you just let it boil from raw. I started by chopping an onion and cooking until translucent, then added a hefty portion of minced garlic and the chopped or shredded cabbage, and a splash of the broth that was in the soup pot. Turned the flame down and covered the skillet, stirring once every few minutes. A little while in, I added a generous shake of salt and ground black pepper over the top. I also like it with paprika. Once the cabbage is translucent and tender, you can add it to soup or just serve it over rice.

    18. I take tea*

      Our favourite is a version of the sweet and sour. Use red cabbage, it’s the best for this, chop it roughly and fry in a little oil, add some water to make sure it’s cooked. Season with ground black pepper and a Japanese style of salted vinegar made from apricots, Ume Su. We put it by mistake once, but it’s perfect. Some green beans or finely chopped broccoli adds nice colour. We usually mix it with fried black beans and vegan mince, but it works fine alone too. Serve with sweet potatoe for even more colour.

    19. I take tea*

      I just remembered something really delicious that my partner’s sister did in the summer. I asked her for the recipe and wanted to add it here. It’s supposed to be done with new cabbage, so maybe cut the cabbage a bit thinner or pour some hot water onto it for a minute to make it softer.

      Cook some pasta (300g pappardelle f. ex.) in salted water until done. Collect about 1 dl of boiling water and drain the pasta. Split the cabbage (about 700 g) and cut it into slices of about 2-3 cm. Slice a bunch spring onions (I suppose leek or chives could work in the winter). Heat 1 tablespoon butter in a pan and fry the spring onions in it for 2 minutes. Move the onions out of the pan. Add 1 tablespoon butter to the pan. Mix 1 tsp sugar with the butter and brown over medium heat for 3-5 minutes. Add 1 tsp cumin seeds and the cabbage and fry for 3-5 minutes. Mix a tsp of apple cider vinegar, some salt and pepper and add it. Then add the onions and pasta and as much of the pasta water water as feels needed to make it moist and mix. Top with fresh chervil, if you have, but works fine without too.

  71. Nassan*

    Removed — I’m sorry but I don’t have it in me this year to host questions about Christmas trees as secular symbols (or anything adjacent) or I will end up closing comments until January lest I lose my mind.

    There is lots of discussion here about why that is, and for anyone who wishes to explore the topic in a way that does not endanger your exhausted host’s December relaxation.

    – Alison

    1. Nassan*

      Oh okay, I understand. Just for the record, I didn’t claim that in the US the tree is a secular symbol (I understand your point on this).

  72. Casey*

    TW: Medication, depression, anxiety

    I’m meeting with a psychiatric nurse sometime in the next month with the expectation I’ll be prescribed antidepressants (like, my therapist said, “call the office, I already presented your case, they’ll probably talk to you about antidepressants”).

    I’m desperate to stop feeling the way I am currently feeling — would love to be able to attend class without crying! — but medication terrifies me for reasons I can’t seem to articulate.

    I was thinking that it would be good to get perspectives outside of their portrayal in media, so what’s been your experience with SSRIs in particular?

    1. Josephine Beth NotAmy*

      I felt the same about medication initially. I was worried about feeling “flat”, nervous about side effects, and just generally felt like a failure for needing them (apparently a common feeling in depression/anxiety).
      The reality is, they saved my life, literally and figuratively. I had no idea how non-functional I had become, and certainly had lost perspective on what it felt like to just…not be drowning in my own emotions and thoughts all day. I couldn’t effectively participate in therapy or other self-care until my brain stopped freaking out about everything all the time.
      I’ve been on several types of meds, with varying degrees of adjustments. I did have some side effects but my doctor and therapist were supportive and we were able to find something that worked very well. It did take several weeks for the meds to fully kick in, and through that time my husband had to really encourage me to stay on them, and I’m glad I did.

      1. I take tea*

        Yes to the feeling of failure – why? I would never think that anybody on meds is a failure and still I had a bit of that too. It’s so weird.

    2. Venus*

      People worry that the medications will change who they are. There are still a lot of unknowns in mental health, for example bipolar is often misdiagnosed, so it might take a while to find the right med. When it’s the right match then you will feel more like yourself than before, not less.

    3. Might Be Spam*

      Could you be afraid that you are weak or undeserving if you need medication? Or that you will need it forever? Medication can help you get to a place where therapy will work better and doesn’t have to be forever. Once you have leveled out your brain chemistry and learned how to deal with whatever troubles you, it may be that you won’t need it anymore or maybe just a smaller dose.
      Each medication works a little differently and side effects vary. If the first one doesn’t work for you, another one might. Sometimes a combination of medications works best. A regular dose of one medication combined with a very small dose of another worked well for me.
      Ask about side effects. Everyone reacts differently. One medication made me gain weight rapidly and I refused to stay on it. The ones I use now don’t affect my weight.
      It will take time for a therapeutic dose to build up, so don’t expect to feel better immediately and don’t give up. Depending on the medication, it may take a few months to take full effect. When I looked back at the way I was before medication, I realized that I needed it to jump start my healing. Therapy didn’t help much until I had the medication. I’m off medication now, but it’s nice to know that it is available if I need it.

    4. Not A Manager*

      I haven’t personally taken them, but family members have. They all found the meds to be incredibly helpful. One thing their docs did was to prescribe a short-acting anti-anxiety med to take for the first week or so while starting the SSRI. My understanding (not a med pro) is that during the adjustment period people can feel anxious or jittery as a side-effect, which does resolve fairly quickly.

      The only reason I mention this is that you are anxious already. I know it seems counter-intuitive to suggest solving that with another med, and again I am not a med pro, but I’m just suggesting that you ask the doc about it.

    5. I take tea*

      I can give you a really sunshiny view of medication. I got diagnosed with atypical depression as the aftermath of stress and grief a couple of years ago. The bouts of aggression followed by hysterical crying was really tiring, like perpetual really bad PMS. I could not fix it myself with all the self care in the world and agreed to try medicines, even though I was a little afraid too, mostly because of side effects. I’m in no way against medicine as such, but I know it can be hard to get it right.

      In my case it had dramatic positive effect almost immediately (within a week or two), I stopped crying all the time and got my ability to focus back. I felt like myself again. I don’t feel like my feelings are in any way stunted, quite the opposite, they feel normal. I cry from sadness, or frustration or sentimental things, just as before, but I don’t sit and cry for hours for no reason. I still get upset about things, but I don’t want to smash everything in the kitchen because the dishwasher is not properly stacked. I just felt… reset.

      I had very little side effects, a bit of insomnia the first weeks, and a drop in appetite, but nothing bad. It wore off. I’ve had to up the dosage a couple of times to keep the effect, but I haven’t had to change it. It has even helped a bit with my SAD (which never was bad enough to get me on meds).

      För me it was a miracle and I am so grateful. You might have to try a few different medicines and be prepared to alter the dosage, but I do think that it’s worth it. It’s a chemical imbalance, and it needs to be fixed. Good luck!

    6. 30ish*

      I felt the same way before starting them, but antidepressants have helped me so much. With minimal side effects.

    7. Alex*

      I was in your same situation. I resisted medication for YEARS, in my case because I had several friends with some really bad experiences on medication and for me it felt so unsafe.

      But I finally gave in to the fourth doctor who told me that I’d probably really never feel OK without it.

      I’ve been taking Lexapro for about three months now, and nothing terrible has happened! It’s going pretty well. It DID help. I’m not 100% better, but I had such entrenched, long-term depression that I guess I have to re-learn how to feel good. Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever felt good. Still, for me, Lexapro has helped my Bad Feelings…sort of not hurt so much. It’s like every day I used to get punched in the head, but now I wear a helmet. I still get punched in the head, it just makes it easier to carry on with my day.

      1. Reba*

        That’s a good way of thinking of it. My former psychiatrist used similar language — meds put on a little bit of armor, or helped build a thicker skin. It can definitely feel scary to do something that’s going to affect your brain! But I felt just like myself, actually more like myself, because of lessened intensity of bad feelings. I also sometimes think of repetitive negative thought patterns as ruts your mind gets into, and meds help patch them so those ruts are not as deep and consuming.

        I have been on anti depressants and several people I love are on them now. I am so grateful for them, and actually my only regret is not starting them sooner! I look back on the years before my loved ones were in regular treatment and now I see how much anxiety and depression were costing them/us. And it doesn’t have to be like that.

    8. Katniss Evergreen*

      I didn’t like the idea of taking an antidepressant but I probably wouldn’t have made it this year without them. I’m on a wellbutrin generic, which isn’t an SSRI but an NDRI. I agree with what others have said on this thread – the feeling that I’ve failed because I’m on meds is real, and I feel like it lifts me up but obviously doesn’t cancel the reasons why I’ve felt so crappy (socially distancing extrovert, I’m existing in a world not made for me). I also agree that the failure part is stupid because I don’t think anyone else on meds for mental health is a failure. Most days the drug does the job fine, sometimes it doesn’t quite keep up. I wouldn’t expect the meds to change everything, but you might be surprised by how much better you feel once the medication/dosage is right.

      I hope this works out well for you and that you’re feeling better soon.

    9. TempAnon-reg-poster*

      Echoing… it does help. I have 30 years, on (and periodically off, which didn’t go well) for double dip depression, which (in my case) means dysthymia all the time and dives into deeper depression triggered by various life events.

      It has been lifechanging. I have every fear mentioned here, but I have made it my goal to remind myself daily – if I do nothing else, I take my meds. I don’t know why, culturally, I felt embarrassed for not being able to tough it out.

      But my analogy is that my brain chemistry is broken. It’s clinical, I need the meds, and denial or my weird brain saying “I shouldn’t need these” doesn’t tell me the truth.

      It took me a couple different tries to find the current med. I’m urging you to keep going. I also did add Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (with a counselor) which is helping as well… but again, goal is not necessarily to get off the meds (I strongly believe it is probably a lifetime need for me, at some dose), but to become the best “me” I can.

    10. Mimosa Jones*

      I went on Citalopram (Alexa) this summer and I’m so happy with it. Yes, it was hard to adjust. I had nausea and loss of appetite as my main side effects. I had to wait a couple extra weeks on the low dose before I had the energy to face the side effects again to move to the dose my dr prescribed. I still have side effects but they’re manageable and are worth it. If your side effects are too hard, talk to your doctor. Everyone’s body chemistry is different and it can take a while to get the right fit. But lots of times it’s just a matter of hanging in there for a couple of weeks to see what side effects fade. I’m also actually losing weight on the meds. Not a lot, and not very fast, but I was very worried about gaining weight so this has been a pleasant surprise.

      The biggest thing the meds have done for me is make it easier for me to hear myself, past therapists, and mental health articles I’m reading. I can easier identify the things I’m doing to get in my own way *and* am able to create plans *and carry them out*. This is huge. I can recognize when I’m stuck in a negative loop. It’s easier to ask for help. I was able to recognize that I do have ADHD (instead of just wondering and forgetting about it), asked for an evaluation and was diagnosed. Such a big step after years of running into the brick wall of my symptoms but doing nothing about it.

      I’m not happier because of the meds; I’m happier because I’m able to address the anxiety and the issues that were frustrating me. And I’m not 100% cured. I still have GAD, OCD, and ADHD. I would still benefit from lots of therapy. We’re still in a world full of sad and scary things. Life is still hard. That said, I do feel that the meds have raised my default mood. My lows aren’t as low and it’s easier to recover from them. And my highs are not dulled. I can feel more: more love for my partner and child, more positive for the future. The love has always been there but I can feel the emotion of it better. And the positive changes I’m able to make in my life do make me very happy.

    11. HannahS*

      If you want some reading material, try CHOICE-D, which is a resource for patients and families from CANMAT. It’s chock-full of information, and if you’re not exactly sure what makes you nervous, it might answer questions that you don’t know you had. It might also help you go into the meeting feeling ready for what you’ll talk about.

    12. Elf*

      A different perspective:

      My personal experience with antidepressants was just over a decade ago. My therapist recommended them, so I thought I would try it. I tried two, and I was on each for 2-3 weeks (not concurrent, it’s pretty common to try a few in series until they find one that works well for you).

      The first one felt great but made me fully manic. The second one gave me terrible personality-altering mood swings (rageful and vengeful). In the decade + since, I think my emotional regulation still hasn’t gotten back to what it was beforehand. It was a very traumatic experience.

      There is absolutely no circumstance under which I would consider taking an antidepressant again.

    13. mreasy*

      I’ve been on SSRIs on & off for 20 years. They have their downsides & it can take awhile to find the right one, but I will tell you – they really, really can help in a way that changes everything. If you don’t tolerate the side effects, you can try another medication until you find one that works. The idea of becoming a zombie or someone without any emotions is highly overblown in the media, and in reality that is much more associated with mood stabilizers and atypical antipsychotics (source: have been on a lot of different mood stabilizers & antipsychotics and a few SSRIs, currently only on lexapro; lots of friends also on SSRIs). It is so worth a try to alleviate your suffering.

    14. RagingADHD*

      I’m on an SNRI for other reasons, which works a bit differently, but I don’t feel like I’m “on” anything. I just feel the way I feel on a good day.

      My dad was on SSRIs for a while during a particularly bad time, and it didn’t change his personality at all. The debilitating anxiety changed his personality a lot, and the medication restored him to normal.

      It just took enough of the edge off his stress that he could eat, sleep, get outside, see people, and do other things to take care of himself and improve his mental health.

    15. Janne*

      I have been on an SSRI (Sertraline: Zoloft) for a bit more than half a year, a year ago. I hesitated a lot before starting them, because I thought my personality would change, I would lose control over myself, I would be too dependent on them, I would get horrible side effects, people would judge me, etc.

      In the end the only side effect that I got was trembling fingers (worse when tired or anxious).

      The medication gave me a bit of energy and determination so that I could do good things like go outside, shower, talk to people. The effect wasn’t so big that I didn’t feel like myself anymore, I didn’t turn into a zombie at all (my head even felt clearer).

      Other people noticed a bit of an improvement but not something drastic, so they couldn’t see I was on medication and wouldn’t judge me easily. I just didn’t tell people that I was on the medication if they were the kind of people that would judge me for it.

      In the end, I wanted to wean off the medication and that was surprisingly easy. So I didn’t become that dependent either.

      I’d say to you: just try it, you can wean off whenever if it doesn’t work out, there are lots of different kinds and they will help you find the right one.

  73. Fleurette*

    For a bunch of reasons, I ended up with severe anxiety and depression during the summer. When my doctor told me she wanted to put me on Prozac, I was shocked and my first reaction was to refuse. She told me: “If you don’t want to take medication, that’s fine. But I want you to ask yourself how much longer are you willing to live like this?”. I decided I could no longer manage this on my own and would listen to what a medical professional is recommending for me.

    I’ve been on the medication for about 3½ months now and it helps me tremendously. I was able to complete my PMP certification in mid-October (during the summer I could no longer study because I was such a mess) and found a new job in November after being jobless for months.

    In my case, Prozac hasn’t changed who I am or what I think about but it helps me manage how I perceive things and helps me avoid those downward spirals of anxiety I had when obsessing over the same issues non-stop. I’m not saying medication will solve all your problems (in my case I know I also need therapy to help me deal with some stuff) but it can be a tool to put you on a path to recovery. See it like antibiotics or any other medication: you might need to complete a round of treatment during 6-12 months, but it doesn’t mean you’ll have to take them for the rest of your life. And if you don’t like how they make you feel, you can stop and try something else.

  74. Ash*

    I have had trouble sleeping since I was a young child. It’s really getting tough now with ongoing pandemic shutdown, a long cold winter, and a toddler. I often wake up around 3-4 am and JUST. CAN’T. GO. BACK. TO. SLEEP. I can’t sleep in either because of the kid. I know it’s turned into a psychological thing, where I wake up and my mind immediately goes to “omg that’s it, I’m gonna be awake now.” How do I shut that thought pattern down? Or I’ll immediately think about the most anxiety inducing thing ever upon waking up (last night, it was the realization that my mom can die at any time. *headdesk*) Ideas on what I can do when I wake up to break this pattern I seem to be in? I don’t drink alcohol, have only one cup of tea per day, exercise, limit screens before bed, don’t do anything in bed except sleep, and all that other sleep hygiene stuff. I normally go to bed around 11:30 pm.

    1. Grim*

      Slowly adjust the time so you go to bed earlier, to see if 4am walks back with the earlier start time.

      When I wake up early. I usually start cogitating about what is on my plate for the day. By writing everything down, I increased my chances of going back to sleep since I didn’t have to think about them anymore. First time I wrote this list, I had 31 items in my brain.

      1. Ash*

        The thing is, I just don’t feel sleepy before 11 pm, even if I had terrible sleep the night before. If I try to sleep too early, I just end up laying there awake. Also, by the time kid goes to sleep, it’s like 8:30, and then I have chores, work to catch up on since I’m basically taking care of the kid all day, and then maybe a tiny bit of time to relax?

    2. Natalie*

      I would look at cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. It’s a solidly evidence based technique with a specific, limited course to learn.

      1. Pellegrino*

        Agree with CBT recommendation. My therapist also recommended I try listening to the sleep stories available through the Calm app to avoid getting stuck in those spirals of anxious thoughts, and it helped so much.

    3. Bad sleeper*

      I second the recommendation for CBT for insomnia. I’ve always been a terrible sleeper and it’s worked well for me. Also, apologies for asking the obvious, but sometimes we miss the obvious until someone else says it :) As a terrible sleeper and parent of an insistent early riser myself, an 11:30 bedtime seems very late to me! Is it just because you can’t go to sleep before then? I know I’ll be up at 5 at the latest from some combination of insomnia and kid demands (usually with a middle of the night wakeup in there to), so I’m in bed by 9 every night.

      I find it’s very easy for me to get into a vicious cycle where the more tired I am, the worse I sleep, and the later I go to bed, the more anxious I get about not sleeping because I feel like I’m running out of time until morning (the CBT techniques helped with this). Going to bed early both helps me relax and helps ensure I have more sleep if I wake up very early.

    4. TextHead*

      I have similar issues. I’ve been trying meditation during the day and try to use those techniques when I wake up with anxious thoughts to put them out of my head. I also have scenarios I think through to occupy my thoughts (for example, recurring dreams of mine – so I start thinking through that whole dream). If none of this is working, then I get up. Not for the rest of the night, but just for a few to break that pattern of being in bed and struggling.

    5. Flower necklace*

      What has worked for me is listening to an audiobook. It’s engaging enough that there’s no room for the anxious thoughts.

    6. Courageous cat*

      I have something similar, it happens at the beginning of the night, and it’s that I get so anxious about whether or not I’ll fall asleep that I never do fall asleep fully. Quite the snake eating its own tail.

      The only thing that’s helped me is using sleeping pills to break the anxiety cycle.

    7. The teapots are on fire*

      CBTI is great. A couple of things you can add–don’t look at the clock if you do wake up, because you will also start doing sleep math–“If I get back to sleep right now, I’ll only get 5 hours sleep…4 hours sleep…” and drive yourself crazy with the countdown. And I recommend reading a book–light fiction, a story you know well, where the characters are old friends. It gives your brain something to do besides solve problems and make up things to worry about, but it’s not so exciting that it fully wakes you up. It’s iffy sleep hygiene but once you start waking up automatically into full anxiety mode you might as well read.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      How do you answer yourself when you think “omg, that’s it, I’m going to be awake now”?

      It matters what we tell ourselves. I finally settled on, “There is nothing I can do about any of my worries at this hour. So I am going to lay here calmly and just enjoy the quiet.”
      It took a bit, but I got so I loooved night fall, as the darkness indicated a time out from problems. I made lists showing myself that I could not handle a problem in the middle of the night. “NO one is at work now. NO one will answer the phone. I can send an email but no one will answer until tomorrow.”

      “mom can die at any time”. Here a possible answer to your own self could be “Yes, that is true. So I will work harder to appreciate the times we do have together now.” And then actually work harder at appreciating….. Follow up is important. [If your relationship with mom is poor/terrible, then investing in external help is probably a wise use of time and money.]

      My own mother and I had a poor to non-existent relationship. However, very seldom are poor relationships a total waste. Many times we can find one or two things a person said that actually ring true. One thing my mother always said is that EVERYTHING looks worse at night.

      I realized that she understood this for Reasons. And yeah, everything can look pretty bleak especially at 2 am. So I practiced saying, “I will wait until the sun comes up and I will deal with this in some manner.” Again, follow up is important. And follow up is tricky because when the sun comes up, it’s easy to blow off our OWN worries.
      “oh I feel better now.” Noooo, this is an actual concern that needs to be addressed some how. Don’t stop now, keep going.

      So that covers self-talk. Which is only one component in finding your solutions.
      To give you an idea of how big a topic this is here is what I had to do to be able to BEGIN to sleep like a normal person:

      I got rid of my scented laundry detergent. No scents in my sheets/clothing.
      I made sure my sheets were all cotton. I cannot sleep on sheets with synthetics in them.
      I needed minerals, including calcuim, magnesium, potassium etc. You might investigate a drink with electrolytes in it, while you are waiting for a real answer from professionals.

      This next one is odd but it was super helpful.
      I made sure I had what I needed the next day ready to go. My lunch for work was ready, my clothes were picked out. If I had an errands such as dry cleaning that was sitting by the door OR in my car good to go.
      I did the same thing at work. The last 15 minutes of my work day was organizing myself for the next morning.
      With this step here, my sleep dramatically improved. Never underestimate the peace that comes with knowing that we are prepared for the next day.
      Currently, I have learned that I sleep better if my dishes are done at night. wth???? But there it is, so I do the darn dishes most nights. It makes no logical sense, but it helps.

    9. Mimosa Jones*

      I’d also reframe the situation as going back to the historical “second sleep”. People naturally woke up for a while in the middle of the night, did some things, and then went back to bed. It’s likely this pattern is more natural for us than a straight 8 hours of sleep. You’ll have less anxiety over it all if you frame it as a natural thing that can happen and that you can do something with. Accommodate it instead of trying to eliminate it. Identify some quiet activities like reading, filing, or simple crafting that can be done in low light. Buy some night time tea if you’d like that. Or there’s the classic hot milk or a bowl of cereal. Get those things ready or just identify them in your mind so that when you wake at 4 you can know it’s time to do the thing. Do it for about half an hour or until you feel sleepy and then go back to bed. The key is to not spend too much time in bed not sleeping. If you recognize that you’re not falling asleep then get up and do something right then. Even just repeating the last couple steps of your nightime routine and then going back to bed could help.

      I think the other thing is you’re going to bed so late that your natural wake point is too close to the start of your day for you to get a decent second sleep. You’re probably staying up to get some you time, but if you can prioritize sleep now by going to bed earlier, I think the benefits will be worth it and you’ll be able to find other chunks of time for yourself. Or just shift those things to your gap between first and second sleep. Also, get some outside time first thing in the morning. It’s always brighter outside and that light helps set your internal clock.

    10. Alex*

      I also have this problem-. My body thinks that it needs to just be awake the hours between 3am and 6am. It is annoying AF.

      I tried the CBTI stuff and while it DID work…it was also really hard. At least the program that I was on was based on sleep deprivation, and that was OK for a couple of weeks but I was EXHAUSTED by the third week and found it hard to be able to take care of my daytime responsibilities.

      Honestly, I had great luck with medication in the past. I can no longer take it because of another medication I need to take, but I used to take trazodone for this problem and it worked well, as well as not being addictive.

      Have you seen your doc about this? Because there is help out there for it.

    11. TPS reporter*

      This used to happen to me. Then I realized I don’t have to see a clock while I’m in bed. Seeing those numbers freaks me out so much and just makes my thoughts race. Now I hide the clock- I’ll still hear my alarm of course.

      Another thing that has helped me is ear plugs. Something about the weird silence of the night also piques my anxiety. Ear plugs don’t block all noise but do give me a white noise vibe, like listening to a shell.

      Another is meditation. Practice a meditation before bed that you can repeat if you wake up at night.

    12. RagingADHD*

      I seem to have recently overcome the too-early wakeups and taught myself to go back to sleep. (Or possibly I just reached a threshold of sleep deprivation where my brain couldn’t stay awake anyway. Either way, this seemed to help).

      I leave the light off (or go to the bathroom if necessary), get comfy, and start counting backwards. Sometimes by sevens, sometimes by nines, sometimes just one at a time. Whenever my mind strays to anxious thoughts of “Aw geez, now my day is ruined” or “I’ll never get back to sleep,” or anything else, I tell it to shush and start over at one hundred. Using an irregular number like sevens takes just enough concentration that I can’t keep the inner monologue going at the same time.

      It took some persistence, but it’s just so boring that I will drift off eventually. After it worked 2-3 times, now I have confidence that it will work and I can remind myself of that to help make the anxious thoughts shush.

  75. Fellow Traveller*

    Hello All –
    Looking for some sewing advice. I promised my husband that I would make him some lounge pants, but I can’t quite find a pattern or technique (or maybe the vocabulary to find the right pattern or technique) for what he wants. He’s looking for elastic waist lounge pants with pockets and that flap in the front that he can pee through. I can find lots of patterns for pants, and some patterns and tutorials for how to add pockets, but I can’t find how to add the flap in the front. Anyone help guide me here? Also – I’m a beginner sewing (I brushed off my sewing machine this year to sew masks) – I’m pretty good at the sewing, but not so good at the cutting/ piecing things together. Any other advice for how to get better at the cutting and piecing together would be helpful, especially specifically for this pants project.
    Thanks everyone!

    1. Llellayena*

      Maybe get a pattern for jeans or khakis? That will give you the pattern pieces for the front flap (just don’t put the zipper in), use the waist pieces from the lounge pants pattern so you get the elastic right.

      For cutting and piecing, pins are your friends! For cutting use more than one pin to hook the paper pattern in place while you cut. For garment sewing you don’t need to perfectly follow the line (the 5/8” seam gives you enough leeway to adjust) but if you’re worried, you can use a rotary cutter and self-healing cutting mat. For piecing, most patterns come with match marks you can use to line the pieces up. Transfer the match marks from the paper pattern to the fabric with tailor’s chalk. You can never check back with your paper pattern enough! Fabric stretches so you can bend it to make curves match as you go or pin the life out of it before you start sewing. Sewing armholes is actually why I switched to quilting! More precise on the cutting but essentially all flat seams!

    2. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      I was able to find some stuff using “mens placket pajama pants”. There doesn’t seem to be much, but I will link to the patterns I found in the reply.

    3. Mimosa Jones*

      I think there’s a good reason you’re not finding exactly what you need. The things that are designed to have a zipperless fly (boxers and briefs) are not public garments–they’re designed to be worn under things. And lounge pants are almost public, loose-fitting, and made of soft, sort of drapey fabric like flannel and knits. Using a zipper fly pattern to create a zipperless fly is going to give you a lot of gaping. If that’s not the look you’re going for, try looking at a pair of boxers–a briefs-style closure won’t work with something that has legs–or at least not as a beginner sewing project. What you’ll see is that each side of the front has a flap that overlaps the other to create some cover. But briefs are much more close-fitting than lounge pants. You’re probably going to need a wider flap than what comes with a boxer. This is all doable, but it’s more complicated than a standard pair of lounge pants. There are patterns for making your own underwear, so you could get a pattern for men’s boxers along with a pattern for the lounge/pajama pants. This is a typical beginner project so the sewing is going to be pretty easy.

      I think your first attempt should follow the pattern exactly. You can make shorts to save money on fabric, and you don’t need to hem them. Get the fit for that right first before tackling the fly. Then I would probably cut that pair up in front and hand baste (large stitches) on flaps until you’ve got the fit and placement right and then alter your pattern based on that. Use the boxer pattern as a guide just for the flaps and keep the curves from the lounge pants.

      I recommend using flannel. Knits are a whole nother level of sewing skills, so using a woven fabric just bypasses all of that. Also because the knits you’ll find at your local fabric store are likely to be thicker than you want for this project. Do what you need to do to save money on the fabric but make sure that your test fabric has a similar weight and drape as your good fabric. Joann Fabrics has coupons both on their website and in their app but the app has better coupons. You can also stack coupons and use coupons from different sources: email list, web site, paper, and app. Make sure you pre-wash and dry your fabric as you’d normally wash the finished project.

      I’d use a lot of pins both when you’re cutting and piecing until you’re more comfortable with both. Have fun, this sounds like a cool project!

    4. HannahS*

      Try Thread Theory’s pyjama pants pattern! It’s elastic waisted pants with a fly-front, which is what you’re looking for.

  76. Dwight Schrute*

    Advice column thread! Any suggestions for advice columns similar to Alison’s but about non work related topics?

    Thanks all!

      1. Courageous cat*

        Oh my god me too. I have no plans to have kids but I LOVE Care and Feeding and I do not know why. I loved it more when Nicole and Carvell were there, though.

        1. Not A Manager*

          I find it so disappointing now. A lot of the answers go on *forever* and sometimes the advice is just. so. wrong. Or I feel like they just misread the original letter or miss key facts in it.

        2. Elf*

          I like Nicole, but I can’t stand Carvell. He has deeply offensive views about atheists. He was also flat out cruel to some letter writers who didn’t deserve it (including some atheists, but others as well).

          1. Fiona*

            Wow, that really surprises me. I’ve never experienced that with Carvell – have actually found him to be the most empathetic of almost any advice columnist.

            1. Elf*

              On some subjects he absolutely is extremely empathetic, but not on the subject of atheism/people expressing insufficient deference to religion.

              In the column I linked below the letter writer is asking an advice columnist for a script to use to explain religion to her kids in a way that is respectful of religion. He tears her to shreds and tells her that she wouldn’t need to ask the question if she were respectful enough of religion herself, and then DOESN’T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

              Second letter in this column: https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/01/parenting-advice-about-helicopter-parents-atheism-and-well-intentioned-racism.html

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                I’m curious what others think of that answer because it didn’t seem bad to me! I thought the LW’s question did sound contemptuous of people who believe in god, and I thought Carvell was right to point out that that’s going to color the way they talk to their kids. I also thought he did answer the question, even giving specific language they could use in talking to their kids. I’m interested to know how others see it.

                1. fhqwhgads*

                  I think the tone at the beginning is a bit rough, unnecessarily and in a way that might make the writer less receptive, which makes it a little counterproductive even if I think the overall point is fine. I don’t see it as “ripping to shreds” either. I also definitely think as a whole it does answer the question.

                2. acmx*

                  I agree the LW was contemptuous. But his first 2 paragraphs are really rude. Had he started with his 2nd sentence in the 2nd paragraph it would have been better. His last paragraph is enough to return the contemptuous feeling.

                3. Observer*

                  Shrug. He’s right. That LW is totally contemptuous of religious people. They don’t want to teach their kid to actually respect others, but to not get into trouble for treating others like the “blooming idiots” the parents think they are.

                4. RagingADHD*

                  I can understand why that answer would sting, because it is an unwelcome truth.

                  The LW is in the quandry of trying to teach their children to respect people whom they themselves hold in obvious contempt. Their task is impossible unless they are willing to confront it and either overcome the contempt (which, as he rightly states, requires humility) or decide that they just want to teach their kids to pay lip service to respect.

                  Humility is painful. Nobody likes it. It is no fun at all. Either you think it’s worth the trouble or you don’t.

                  If he were a private counselor, he should certainly moderate his tone and do his best to engage the LW in introspection without alienating them. But he’s not. He’s a columnist who gets paid for attracting attention. So uncomfortable truths stated in a fairly confrontational way are part of the job.

                5. Elf*

                  TL;DR: I think that if a Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist parent had written in with an equivalent question about how to explain Christian doctrine to their kid without accidentally making it sound silly and he had responded with equivalent vitriol “[S]top behaving like you’re God, the all-knowing, all-seeing, and always right.” people would have been outraged.

                  I think Carvell really didn’t answer the question there, because (in my reading at least) the letter writer wasn’t so much asking for advice for explaining the idea of god as for explaining religious doctrine. People can have all kinds of descriptors of god, the one Carvell used in his example was nice, but take a specific doctrine from any religion you choose (that isn’t yours) and if you actually state it plainly out loud it is going to sound pretty ridiculous. That is hard to get around. (I’d like people to actually try the experiment before getting mad at me for proposing it). The letter writer had some poor choices of words, but I think that is truer to the intent of the question.

                  I also came out of that letter feeling that he would be just as scathing to me about the way I explain religion to my kids. I think it’s important to have empathy and understand where people are coming from, so I approach it from a human psychology standpoint (what features of human cognition lend themselves to this belief, what do people get out of it, why is it so pervasive) in the same way I speak to them about other societal phenomena, like racism. I think it’s important for kids to understand that something can be natural given human psychology and still be wrong. I’m pretty sure, though, that the mere fact that I tell my kids that god is a thing some people believe in that doesn’t exist would earn me the full measure of his contempt, even though equivalent messaging is expected of every religious parent.

      2. Dwight Schrute*

        Ha thank you! I also don’t have kids and have no plans for them but I enjoy reading advice columns so I’ll probably enjoy

    2. Dr.KMnO4*

      I like Dear Prudence on Slate (well, now that Danny is the columnist. Some of Emily Yoffe’s answers are… problematic.)

      I love Captain Awkward. I’ve learned so much from her column. A+++++++, will always recommend.

      1. The Time Being*

        Agreed on Dear Prudence. Even more than Yoffe’s openly problematic answers, I was bothered by how often she’d answer with jokes, puns, or otherwise trivializing situations that often sounded pretty serious. Danny seems to be writing much more to give advice first, rather than entertain readers.

        Captain Awkward is just phenomenal.

        1. Elf*

          I’m bothered by how frequently Danny seems to fail to *actually read* the letters. Yoffe had issues there too occasionally (as do most advice columnists, though Alison and Captain Awkward are almost always exceptions) but Danny mis-answers due to not reading carefully with stunning frequency.

    3. Pam*

      Captain Awkward for the win!!! Like Alison, she has a deep archive of answers. There’s also a separate Friends of CA forum for discussions like we do here. (not managed by CA)

      1. Elf*

        YMMV with the Friends of CA forum. I went there for advice once, and in describing my situation I described the many things I had done to make sure my perceptions of the situation were accurate, and in doing so I used the phrase “I know I’m not crazy because…” and that got moderated for ableist language. It was really off-putting, and I haven’t been back.

        I suspect it might be a really good environment IF you go in knowing that you have to scrutinize your language to that degree. I might have stayed if I had gone in knowing that was an expectation, but I also would likely not have gone in at all; there is a legitimate competing access need that neurodivergent people often find it exhausting and untenable to do that kind of self-monitoring of language that includes very common phrases. I don’t think the places I do hang out online are any less accepting/welcoming, but they are a bit friendlier to autistic people.

      2. RagingADHD*

        The Friends of CA forum is the closest thing I’ve ever seen in real life to the Monty Python sketch about the People’s Front of Judea in “Life of Brian.”

        The entire first screen of the administrative room is different lists of rules and amendments to the rules, and amendments to amendments of the rules, because the rules turned out to be simultaneously too rule-y and not ever rule-y enough.

        CA got rid of her comments section altogether because the rabbit holes and flame wars about who was triggering who got to be too much for her to put up with – so the people who loved the flame wars built a separate forum for it.

        1. peasblossom*

          Perfect comparison! I actually wish I’d never looked at the friends of CA forum because it completely put me off CA itself, which is a shame because Jennifer gives some excellent advice.

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Carolyn Hax, but I avoid the comments section.
      (She’s at the Washington post now, which has discount subscriptions for people with .edu email addresses and free for people with .mil and .gov email addresses. Discounted for prime members too.)

    5. Fellow Traveller*

      I love Carolyn Hax at the Washington Post. She has an approach that often helps me reframe my view of things with grace and compassion. She’s not as hard core about boundary setting as CA- I mean she definitely advises to set firm boundaries, but I am often surprised about the empathy she has for both sides of an issue.

  77. Katniss Evergreen*

    Has anyone else had trouble socializing with people this year? My friends and I have seen each other intermittently (safely) in person for the last few months, but no one except one or two friends reaches out unless I do. I’ve been depressed since March, in treatment since May, and am feeling better but don’t have the energy I usually do to be an organizer of virtual or otherwise hangouts especially if no one responds. I’m finding myself getting really frustrated with my friends and told my husband that it feels like I need to find ways to be more okay alone. My husband and I spend some time together but he needs more alone time than I do. I work from home, alone now that he’s back at work (which we needed because being around each other all the time was hard in a different way), and it feels like I can hardly get anyone to talk to me.

    1. WellRed*

      I think a lot of people are just barely themselves and don’t have the energy to reach out. Carolyn hax live forum this past Friday had quite a bit on this.

    2. Reba*

      You’re definitely not alone! I’m lucky to have one person in my circle who regularly responds/wants to do things. Other people I used to see regularly (in some cases weekly!) just crickets. I’m finding that just one-on-one even for virtual hanging is more doable.

      I also reached out to a couple of long distance friends that I’d semi fallen out of touch with, and it was super nice to Zoom with them! I feel like those 2 hours of chatting are going to sustain me for a while.

      1. Reba*

        To be clear, I don’t mean to criticize with that “crickets” comment! This time sucks and is hard, no hard feelings over it. Just meant to say that my social group patterns have totally changed.

    3. Courageous cat*

      A lot of people aren’t into virtual hangouts or are just trying to get through the stress of the pandemic this year themselves. I don’t talk to some of my friends as much lately because it feels like, what’s the point, I can’t see them anytime soon anyway, and my presumed carpal tunnel keeps me from texting as much as I’d like these days.

      I would give everyone lots of grace this year, and yourself too! Take this as a challenge to find a new solo hobby if you’re able to.

    4. Not A Manager*

      If you value being with people other than your husband, I would strongly urge you to try a middle ground between what you’re experiencing now and “finding ways to be more okay alone.” We’re all getting plenty of experience with alone time, you probably don’t need more of it.

      I’m seeing two issues here. One is that you have limited energy to arrange hangouts, and the other is that it’s disappointing to you when people don’t respond to your invites – especially since they take energy. So I would suggest addressing those issues first. Can you “arrange” a few things that are super simple and don’t take a lot of energy from you? Just something like “let’s Zoom on Thursday night,” or “let’s go for a distanced walk on Saturday.” Your invitee can say yes or no. If it doesn’t work for them, don’t use your energy in a big back-and-forth.

      Relatedly, I find that people are less likely to respond to group communications and/or larger group events. In the interest of preserving your energy, can you just invite one other social unit per event? It’s less exhausting to reach out to one contact and ask if they and their partner/s can do the thing than it is to reach out to a bunch of folks. And, as I said, I find that the one person is more likely to respond if it’s just them.

      I know you have limited energy, but I honestly think it will take *more* energy to try to resign yourself to not seeing your friends than it will to try to find emotionally safe ways to keep seeing them.

      I recognize that you also feel hurt that you seem to be doing all the organizing. This is completely valid and I understand it. But these are hard times for everyone. Unless you generally have reason to feel slighted and overlooked by your friends, I hope you can see this in a less personal light so that you can continue to reach out to them.

  78. Courageous cat*

    Has anyone ever gone (what I view to be) the opposite way with a relationship: like, instead of infatuation/butterflies/etc in the first 12 months followed by a decline in the honeymoon stage… you actually were maybe annoyed by them at the beginning, or just friends with no feelings, or whatever – and then over a very extended period of time, feelings developed, and you found you loved them more as time went on?

    I think the second kind (which is my current situation) may actually be the more sustainable route for me but some of my friends are like “but how could he be the one if you were so lukewarm about him at the beginning?!”, so I’m curious if anyone has thoughts here. Seems to me like burning very hot for someone at the beginning was setting me up for disappointment later when the honeymoon period wore off and I realized we actually weren’t as compatible as I’d thought. Whereas now I was able to look at our situation/flaws/compatibilities very honestly with no expectations/no surprises.

    1. Reba*

      I mean, I know love at first sight is a trope, but realizing that you have gradually grown to love someone (especially someone who annoyed you) is also a classic novel and rom-com plot for a reason :)

      It sounds to me like you are coming to know yourself better and how your emotional machinery works. This is a good thing! In addition to being in love being a good thing.

    2. CatChaser*

      I did. We had our 35th wedding anniversary this past June.

      We met when I joined a caving club he was a member of. We were friends, going on caving trips with the club for years. You learn a lot about people when you camp and cave with a group….who volunteers, who disappears when its time to work, who cooks, who cleans up (and who snores). We gradually started spending alone time together. I don’t think we were ever madly infatuated with each other, and I don’t remember when I decided he’s the one (I had several boyfriends (serially) at the beginning of our acquaintance). It took us about 7 years, but I don’t regret a minute.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Congratulations, 35 years!! As a serial monogamist, I find that very impressive.

        That’s kind of where I’m at too – I dated several people while he and I were still friends, because I just wasn’t that interested in him at the time. COVID has given me the opportunity to see a lot more of him though and now I’m wondering if, if we got married, I would actually be happy – I wouldn’t have that disappointing downturn when the honeymoon period ended; rather, it may just feel like this all the time. Happy, but in a reasonable and sustainable way. And I would be perfectly fine with that.

      2. tab*

        Same for my husband and me! We started as friends and celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary in July. Congrats to you and your hubby. I’m sorry neither of us got the anniversary celebration that we were planning this year. I think it’s the best way to start a romance, because when you first meet someone you can fool yourself about what they are really like. When you’ve been friends for months, you know who the person really is.

    3. More Coffee Please*

      Definitely not an expert here, but I don’t think that sounds crazy! I think feels can develop over time, especially if you didn’t originally meet with the expectation you’d be dating them (like just friends or coworkers). I mean, lots of people even have arranged marriages, and I think the idea with those is that the love/chemistry will develop over time.

    4. The teapots are on fire*

      YES. Just, YES. I’ve known him 20 years now (time flies when you’re long-distance friends for the first decade) and we’re getting married sometime in the next two years.

    5. Enough*

      First laid eyes on my husband in college while we were taking summer classes. First talked to him in Sept when we took a class together. Went on 4 or 5 dates that spring when I broke up with my boyfriend. Got back together with boyfriend. Had an additional class with him the next year (I was a senior, he was in graduate school). We had became friends. I graduated and went to graduate school else where. He graduated and moved for a job. We stayed in touch and occasionally saw each other when he was home (our families lived 20 minutes apart). Got married 1 month shy of 8 years after we first laid eyes on each other. I had told a friend about 4 years before we got married he would be the last person I would marry. We have 3 children and will celebrate our 38th anniversary in 2021.

      1. Courageous cat*

        “I had told a friend about 4 years before we got married he would be the last person I would marry. We have 3 children and will celebrate our 38th anniversary in 2021.”

        I love this. I said something similar, that he was “perfectly fine but I could not imagine marrying him” or something along those lines, at the beginning. And am a little shocked to find over the past year that that outlook has changed considerably.

    6. Not A Manager*

      This is pretty much how I fell in love with each of my life partners. I wasn’t annoyed by them or “merely” platonic at first, but I was in a casual, open dating relationship with each of them and did not have any immediate or burning desire to be exclusive or deeply intimate. The “falling in love” happened gradually over time.

      Also, people that I fell for hard immediately have universally turned out to be dumpster fires.

      You mention knowing about flaws and incompatibilities. I think this is really key. With each of my partners, their flaws/incompatibilities were clearly never deal-breakers for whatever stage of the relationship we were in, whether casual dating or being married. As the relationship deepened, those incompatibilities didn’t go away. But as I fell more in love, there were *even more* reasons that it was “worth it.” My feeling about the incompatibilities moved from “okay, but…” to “yes, and…”

      1. Courageous cat*

        Right! You put it into words. This idea of, instead of finding out more and more things I hate about the person, I’m actually finding more and more things I love, for once. Because I already know about the bad parts.

    7. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Husband and I were friends for like eight years before we started dating – in fact, we were introduced originally by my ex-husband right after ex and I started dating. Me and my ex were at his and his ex’s wedding, and they were invited to ours (but didn’t make it due to distance). After my ex and I divorced, I moved to the town that he (and a bunch of other friends) lived in, and about a year and a half after that, he and his ex divorced. They had moved overseas for a bit, and I had adopted their dog when they left, but when they split, he came back and she stayed. He crashed with my housemate and I for about six months, and he just … never left. I told him he couldn’t have my dog back. We started dating a year or so later. For quite a while, we were both on team “no need to get married again,” so I was rather taken aback when he proposed. (My initial response, when I figured out what he was asking me, was “Are you sure?”) Now we joke that he married me for the dog.

    8. HannahS*

      I mean, I always respected my husband and found him a nice person, but he had a partner when I met him, so I wasn’t, like, INTERESTED in dating him, because he wasn’t available. A few years later, I was also a bit unsure of dating him in the beginning, but I always felt unsure in the beginning of dating someone. I certainly wasn’t crazy wild hot about it, you know? But I liked and respected him, so I figured it was worth exploring–that’s a pretty damn good place to start. The more time we spent together, the more I felt we would be good partners to each other, and as time went on we became more attracted to each other and eventually were in love. It happened fast–from the first time we hung out alone as friends to being engaged was about three months. But it didn’t feel like what you see in the movies.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Am chuckling. Sometimes attraction starts out as irritation. Why does this random person get under our skin and become so irritating so fast? Why do we even notice and care???? How many other irritating people have we met and felt NO attraction? Too many, so why This one?

      My guess is that something registers with us subconsciously that resonates with us. Perhaps this irritating person has a similar work ethic as our own. Or perhaps they touch our hearts with their compassion toward older people or an injured animal. Something important, that we put a high value on, resonates and that overrides the irritation.

      Think about the times you met an irritating person and the situation never improved. What is different this time?

      1. Courageous cat*

        “Something important, that we put a high value on, resonates and that overrides the irritation.”

        This is a very good take – I think his infinitely patient and kind demeanor towards me, no matter how annoyed I was by some of his idiosyncracies or no matter how much I distanced myself is what made me step back and think, like: “wait, I’m pretty annoying in some regards too, and he’s never made me feel less than for being that way”. And that patience/unconditional love really is a very big overarching trait in a partner that I didn’t realize how much I valued till I realized I had it.

        Meanwhile plenty of people I’ve dated have had VERY seemingly compatible personality quirks with me, until time went on and I realized three years too late that I was wrong.

    10. OyHiOh*

      I am the later sort. I have to become friends with a person first, and romantic/physical attraction develops over time. For me, the head over heels in love romantic tropes develop a year or two into a relationship. Much to the astonishment of friends, I’ve never felt at-first-sight attraction for anyone. Now, I do sometimes get hit with a sense that I need to know a particular person, but it’s much more cerebral and related to how a person speaks/thinks.

    11. Potatoes gonna potate*

      I’m like that. I don’t think it’s weird at all haha just a little bit outside the norm. All the people who’s company I end up enjoying (romantic and non platonic) I was lukewarm towards in the beginning. They grew on me. Of course when things end it crushes a lot.

    12. RagingADHD*

      I turned my husband down flat the first time he asked me out, no interest at all. Later on, we met under different circumstances and I thought it might be fun to go out.

      The relationship grew based on our experience of each other, getting to know his character and the deeper aspects of his personality, and the dynamic between us. It just got better and better.

      I never had a crush/butterflies type situation work out well. Those always tended to be people who were bad news, for whatever reason. I guess my “crush picker” was busted.

      This way worked out great – 17 very happy years so far (barring some stressful life situations, which come to us all sooner or later). I can’t imaging making it through them with anyone else.

  79. ImOnlyHereForThePoetry*

    Eco-friendly Laundry Sheets

    Has anyone tried these? They are pieces of what look like paper that replaces laundry detergent and comes with zero plastic packaging. I would love to reduce the amount of plastic I use but I also want clean clothes. If you have used them, can you give us your experience with them?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I’ve never used laundry soap like that, but I have hand soap that’s basically the same thing, little packets of “paper leaves” that dissolve into soap when they’re wet, and they work fine. Not quite as foamy as traditional soap.

      1. tab*

        I used something like that. It’s a combination laundry sheet and fabric softener sheet that you throw in the dryer with the clean clothes. I got some to use on a trip where we were staying in an apartment for a couple weeks. They worked fine, and are great for travel (sometime next year…)

    2. Skeeder Jones*

      I’ve been using them for a while now and love them. Part of it is I live in an apartment and carrying a few laundry sheet is so much easier than carrying detergent to the laundry room. I cannot entirely comment on their ability to remove stains as I always use as stain spray for any stains I have (and I ALWAYS have stains, I have a hole in my bottom lip or something) but find that the sheets work just as well for me as the liquid/pods worked and I like that they go straight into the dryer and work as a softener too.

  80. Canuck girl*

    Hello AAM friends – need some reassurance about my new cat. I got him yesterday from a petsmart adoption charity. He is 7months old, neutered, vaccinated, orange tabby. I was told he was very shy when they first got him at petsmart, but then grew brave and comfy, he purred so nicely when I met him, that was it for me :). So the night was ok, he roamed around, explored, played with a kleenex box, it woke me up a few times. He knows to use the litterbox and used it twice. And now it’s the day and he’s been hiding / sleeping under my bed since the morning. He has a water dish just outside the bed and also water in his food dishes near my kitchen. Is it normal that he’s not drinking more right now? I was told typically they hide a lot when they first adapt. I am a bit of a worrier in general, but I want to make sure he will drink enough.

    1. Grim*

      He should be acclimated within a day or two. As long as he’s eating and drinking, you two should just chill and get acquainted.

      Never hurts to get him checked out by a vet sooner than later.

    2. Aphrodite*

      He sounds as if he is doing fine. I’m not surprised he is hiding during the day when there are more noises. He’ll come out, though, and I wouldn’t worry about his water intake yet. Maybe it might be worth trying sitting on the floor or a chair in your bedroom and reading aloud to him for 15-30 minutes. He’ll become more accustomed to your voice. Then just go about your business. His curiosity will bring him out as he learns the normal sounds around him are routine.

    3. Flower necklace*

      You can try broth treats to get him to drink more. That always works for my cat, no matter how stressed he is. But I don’t think it’s necessary. My cat is also very shy. He spent a good two weeks under my bed after I got him. He didn’t sit on my lap for years, long after I’d assumed it just wasn’t in his personality.

      Now I’m stuck on the couch because I don’t have the heart to shove him off my lap, so clearly everything turned out all right :)

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I ended up in a discussion with my vet about hydration because I was worried about my dog.

      She said that animals’ bodies are extremely efficient in extracting water out of the solid foods they eat. This is more so than us humans. Additionally, she said for a dog the size of my guy, 60 pounds, pouring in a half of a cup of water per meal would be plenty. So a 60 pound dog gets 1 cup of water per day, if you prorate that downward to the size of your cat I am sure we are talking about tablespoons of water per day.

      IRL, I had two cats who did not eat or drink for two weeks. They hid instead. The third cat went 3 weeks and I got upset over that. All cats ended up being fine and living long lives.

      Your cat is doing better than any of mine did at the start- picking from your post here, mine did not purr when I met them; they did not play the first day I brought them home; they did not explore and they definitely did not come out at night. Peed twice? That’s great.
      You have lots of good stuff here. The only thing I would add is make sure your worry does not show in your voice. Use a happy/silly voice.
      I think the two of you will be just fine.

    5. GinnyDC*

      It sounds like he’s probably fine. As others have said, it usually takes a little while for cats to settle in to a new place. You could also get some canned/wet food and set it out for him if you want since that would make sure he has some hydration besides drinking water.

    6. Courageous cat*

      Cats don’t drink a ton in general as it is, and it’s hard to catch them in the act. I am sure he’s fine because this is normal for a new cat, but adding a little water to his food (or feeding wet food) may help with your peace of mind

    7. Canuck girl*

      Gosh, thanks everyone, this gives me more of a peace of mind. One other questions – is it normal that he purrs on his own as he sleeps under my bed? I am hearing it right now. Purring is generally a good thing, but in my worried state my mind jumps to the fact that cats purr when they’re in pain, which happened to my old sick cat 2 yrs ago (he had to be put down). I am overthinking this, aren’t I?

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        He is probably fine! It all sounds very normal.

        The rescue group you adopted him from probably had him examined by a vet before the adoption, but it’s always a good idea to have you own vet do a full check-up, any shots he still needs, etc. I’m sure he’s fine, but that’ll give you peace of mind.

        But I wouldn’t worry about the purring or the hiding. He’ll probably stop hiding within a few days, but don’t be alarmed if it takes a bit longer than that. New places are scary to most cats, and he’s found somewhere he feels secure. Keep leaving food and water out and he’ll be good. (Wet food is a good idea, as someone else mentioned.)

        You might be able to help him acclimate by playing with him while he’s under there with stick toys, etc. He’s young enough that he’ll likely get excited by the toys and come out from under the bed before he realizes what he’s doing, and then you can keep playing with him and petting him and showing him that you are safe and a source of fun.

        1. Canuck girl*

          Thank you so much Alison! Just gave him half a can of wet food, under the bed and he ate most of it, yay! Will get a few stick toys tomorrow, all I have is little balls and one with a feather, that won’t lure him out from under there. And yes, you’re right, he was checked by the vet at the rescue, and he actually has all the shots needed, he’s good for a year. I may opt for a vet visit anyway, though perhaps will let him start coming out from under the bed first. Would be good for him to see me as a fun and safe person…cause all he heard from me today was “Where are you? (on repeat) and why are you behind the washing machine?”
          Thank you again to all and Alison – virtual hugs!

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Oh good! And for tonight, you probably have stuff in your house that would work for toys — a long piece of yarn (just supervise him so he can’t try to eat it, which is very dangerous for cats), a belt, a shoelace, anything long and thin that you can drag along the ground so he can see it move. Anything snake-like!

            Good luck!

          2. tangerineRose*

            You might want to put a small bowl of water (maybe with a plate underneath it to catch any drops) where your kitty can drink from it while staying under the bed. The last time I brought a new cat home, and he was fond of staying under the bed, I spent some time nearby, reading and occasionally talking to him.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        My dogs have cried in their sleep- which I wake them up when I hear it. But they also wag in their sleep which is kind of cool. I have heard people say they dream. I dunno, maybe.

        Just my opinion, but I am reading your cat’s purring here as contentment. She has her forever home and she knows it.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Both my hounds chase bunnies in their sleep, with wuff-wuff-wuff-ing and flapping paws like they were running :)

    8. TPS reporter*

      this is my plea to give cats a mostly if not all wet food diet. they are very good at extracting water from their food and water intake will help their kidneys. Cats are highly prone to kidney disease, please read Jackson Galaxy on the subject!

    9. Canuck girl*

      Thanks again everyone :) I used a thin snake-like belt and the kitty played well with it, was definitely curious about it and afterwards, he emerged on his own to keep exploring my living room. Have a good night.

  81. OyHiOh*

    Bird feeders and wild sightings! What have you seen recently?

    I’m excited because there’s something at the state wildlife area (where I’ve seen a crane, and pelicans, and hooded mergansers) that I couldn’t quite put a finger on, and I figured it out this week. There’s a group of American Coots who appear to live here year around. Dark bodied, about mallard size, with bright white bills. There’s also a tiny black duck-like thing I haven’t figured out yet and the Audubon app I use to track sightings is being unusually unhelpful.

    1. NoLongerYoung*

      what a great idea- I used to have a good friend (science teacher formerly) who was a wonderful birdwatcher, and I grew up being aware of the midwest birds – I should download the app and try this. Are there other apps you can try to identify your mystery bird?

      1. WoodswomanWrites*

        A couple of excellent apps are Merlin from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and iNaturalist. I highly recommend both.

      2. OyHiOh*

        I use the National Audubon Society app. The ID a bird function is usually very helpful, given that it starts from your state and month and narrows down possible birds from there.

        I too know the midwest far better than I know front range colorado birds. I saw two downy woodpeckers today, good familiar friends from my home in the midwest and they made my day even moreso than the water birds.

    2. Formerly in HR*

      Sometimes where coots are present, there are also moorhen or purple swamp hen around. I always forget which one seems to walk on water and which one floats, as they look similar enough.

      1. OyHiOh*

        These were small, probably half the size of a mallard for reference, and very dark, almost black. Pale/yellowish bills. Diving birds, with a funny little cluck that sounded almost like a human fart. Griebes came up as the closest match suggested by the app, but there’s a couple things that don’t look right.

    3. WoodswomanWrites*

      Thanks again for this regular thread on birds, which makes me really happy.

      American wigeons are hanging around on the ponds near me. I love the peeps they make. Even though they’re ducks, they don’t quack and sound similar to the chicks of chickens.

    4. londonedit*

      I’m in southern England, temporarily staying at my parents’ house until January, and there are different birds here from the ones I see at home in London. I’ve seen a nuthatch and woodpeckers (I hear woodpeckers at home but haven’t seen one!) and the usual assortment of tits, plus blackbirds, doves, sparrows, dunnocks and lovely robins. I’ve also seen buzzards close-up, and I’ve heard an owl! Yesterday morning I saw a wren in the garden, then went on a run and saw a load of pheasants (very common in rural areas) and partridges!

    5. pancakes*

      One of the young red-tailed hawks in our neighborhood sat in the tree nearest my apartment, directly outside one of my bedroom windows, for a while one day last week. My next door neighbor has a window overlooking the same tree and texted us to let us know. Very exciting to see at close range!

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