open thread – October 15-16, 2021

by Alison Green on October 15, 2021

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. A&D*

    A&D

    Interview help please! Got an interview for a job that I think is super well-matched with my skills and is almost exactly what I want to be doing. I passed a phone screen, and now am prepping again for an interview (with all of the fantastic resources on this site) and have a few questions:
    1. My first interview is 30 min with an HR coordinator. I’ve only had two jobs and have never worked at a place big enough to have HR so I have no idea what this meeting will be about – is this the place to talk about benefits (including flexibility & work from home) and culture?
    2. My second interview is 45 min with my potential manager. My read on this manager so far is that he seems great – BUT I have had a couple of past managers who are good people but baaaad managers. Outside of asking him what his management style – does anyone have any additional good questions they reccomend to ask a potential manager? Honestly, I wish I could ask them behavioral questions to get the best understanding but I doubt that will go over well. My understanding is this is an entirely new role in the department so I will be relying on hypothetical questions about what the manager hopes for the role (daily tasks, good characteristics to have, etc).
    3. How many questions is too many questions? I have more than a dozen, and don’t know if there is a third interview with my manager after this…

    1. Mental Lentil*

      HR interview is probably to determine if you have the background and skills required.

      Manager interview is probably to see if you will be a good fit with the team.

      Yes, it’s good to ask him about his management style! Ask for some examples of how he’s handled specific things in the past: missed deadlines, customer complaints—whatever is relevant to the job.

      I think it’s okay to have too many questions. If you can’t get answers to all of them, you can always ask in a follow-up email, if they encourage that sort of thing. It shows that your interested. And it may be that your interview goes well beyond the allotted time. That’s a good thing!

      1. Putting the "pro" in "procrastinate"*

        At my company, HR interview is about culture fit, compensation/benefits, visa situation, questions about relocating, etc. The manager determines whether the needed background and skills are present — HR doesn’t have the expertise to do this.

    2. CBB*

      For #1. At several companies I’ve interviewed at, when I show up to the interview, I have been asked to fill out a job application (which seems extraneous, but whatever). It’s possible that’s what the 30 minutes with HR is for, at least in part. Make sure you have all the info you’ll need for that, including contact info for references and past employers.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        The job application isn’t always extraneous. Often it includes state required notices regarding hiring practices. And it often includes a section that the candidate signs to attest that all information provided is accurate and complete to the best of their knowledge, and that they understand if they are hired and are later found to have falsified anything on their initial employment application, they will be subject to immediate dismissal.

    3. FridayFeels*

      Re: #1, in higher ed at least, when I’ve met with HR during a second-round interview, it’s a presentation of the benefits and an opportunity to ask questions about benefits.

    4. Lady_Lessa*

      I would also, if you have a chance to see the work area, you might be able to get a feel about the company that way as well. Are there personal things on the desks or not.

      FYI, it might look good on paper, but be a disaster in life. Think an intuitive creative type in a very process driven company.

      I had an interview like that, and by the end we both knew it wasn’t working. (and for their industry, I am SO glad it is process driven)

    5. Admin 4 life*

      Our HR interviews are to go over qualifications, verify your right to work in the country, documented proof we require (official transcripts, passport or green card, etc), a few personality questions to ensure you’re a stickler for policy and procedures, tell you the hiring process and what to expect for the timeline. Then you get to ask a few questions (I suggest asking about covid procedures, reporting structures, growth opportunities, and employee engagement groups you’re interested it, etc)

    6. California Dreamin’*

      For HR interview, in my experience it’s mostly to figure out if you are qualified, for example my company will administer Excel tests during that portion (for jobs listed as a requirement).

    7. A*

      First off, best of luck!

      The HR portion is most likely going to be focused on skillsets, background etc. In my experience these tend to be fairly high level and are to ensure that the foundational requirements are met, and to offer a second opinion on whether you’ll be a good match for that role. Typically I use this stage to also confirm the general salary range they are looking at (if not already advertised), and sometimes high level questions on benefits – but I safe the detailed questions for the second round.

      In regards to management style etc. one thing I’ve found helpful is I try and naturally work into the convo a script along the lines of “I am always as flexible and accommodating as possible and have a whatever it takes attitude, but in turn I do expect my employer to also offer me as much flexibility and accommodation as possible so long as the work is getting done and getting done well”. Gauging their response has been a helpful indicator of whether they are of a differing opinion (more of a ‘butt in seats attitude’ etc.). Rather than asking about their management style, which is fairly open ended and I’ve not have luck in finding to be overly helpful – I tend to phrase it more as a question of what style of work they expect from the individual filling the position – i.e. independent work, or collaborative with management? That can also help dig up any red flags that can be indicative of a micromanagement attitude. Obviously these are based on my own preferences, but just some examples.

      I try not to ask more than ~7 questions per interviewer per round (I’m just making that number up, I just try and avoid consolidating everything all at once so as not to be overwhelming, and because a lot of questions tend to be answered organically as the interview rounds progress). And gauge your audience – if the interviewer seems engaged and excited about the questions, keep going! If you get the sense it might be toeing the line of too many, focus on the top priority ones and circle back to the others as it progresses.

      Again, good luck!

    8. rl09*

      For Question 1:

      When I’ve had interviews with a similar set-up, the HR interview was more of the standard behavior based questions (i.e. Tell me about a time when you dealt with a difficult coworker…etc.), and the manager interview was more informal/conversational (do you use SAP in your current job? what modules do you use? etc.). But it can really vary from company to company.

    9. BRR*

      #2 I wouldn’t even ask what his management style is. I don’t think you’re going to get a helpful answer. Partially because nobody is going to answer “I’m a huge micromanager who will constantly contradict what I have previously said” and partially because I think a lot of people, including good manager, don’t really know how to talk about their management style. So they give some kind of boilerplate answer.

      #3 I don’t know what the hard ceiling is, and it partially depends on how in depth the answers are, but 12 is too many. I think 5 or 6 is probably the max. If there’s not another interview, you can ask if you get an offer.

    10. Recruited Recruiter*

      1. Having been on the HR end of that kind of interview a large number of times, they will likely ask you a set of questions that the hiring manager provided to make sure that you’re able to do the job, and that you don’t raise any major red flags. In addition, at those second level HR interviews that I have done in the past, I have gone over pay range, benefits, schedule, to make sure that there are no true deal breakers prior to filling the hiring manager’s time slot.

      2. I would recommend asking what success looks like in this role. In the past, I have gotten some very enlightening answers about hiring managers from asking a combination of what success in the role looks like to the manager and asking for a description of the manager’s management style. (description is important. I had an interview a while ago in which I asked this question and the manager said “very hands off” and then proceeded to describe micromanagement.)

    11. not a doctor*

      I’m cutting it close, but in case you see this (or as advice for any other interviewers): ALWAYS ask what onboarding and training will be like. Always, always, always. I can’t tell you how informative that question has been for me.

      1. You get a pen and you get a pen*

        I SO wish I had this question in my pocket a few months ago! I’ve posted further down this thread but have run into a huge issue with this currently. I am nearly certain had I asked this, their confused scramble for a response would have indicated the lack of planning I’m encountering now.

        However, thank you for posting this in case I need it in the near future.

    12. Sheik YurBooti*

      #2: ask your potential manager what thinks successful employees of his look like: what do they do and how they perform their job well. Anything that he mentions that you have done well in your previous role you should respond with.
      #3: should have a good number of questions but make sure you do research — as much as you can — about the company for some answers that may already be available.

    14. Esmeralda*

      HR interview. Many possibilities. You should ask what the focus will be and what documentation should you bring with you.

    15. CarCarJabar*

      For the potential manager- ask what circumstances led to the creation of this new position? what will the training be like? is there anyone else in the organization with these necessary skills or will you be the only one? is there budget for outside training/professional development courses? what the vision is for the role in the future?

      Really try to suss out how well they thought out the new position, and if you really want to take it on.

      My only experience with a brand new position was a total sh!t show… they needed someone with a particular skill set that they didn’t have, hired me to do it, and the ENTIRE job took me about 3 days a month to do. They could have easily sent a current employee to a training course, but had a kneejerk reaction instead. I was in absolute boredom hell and only lasted 8 months.

    16. RagingADHD*

      If you want to find out about management style and aren’t sure whether the manager is self-aware enough to describe their style accurately, you could ask about their perspective on the team:

      What is the team great at?
      How does the team interact with other stakeholders, any challenges or successes in those relationships?
      How would they like to see the team grow, what goals do they want to achieve?

      The way they talk about the team will reveal a lot about their style.

      It’s okay to have lots of questions. Probably a lot of them will get answered as you go along. IME, it has always been helpful and made a favorable impression when I make notes and literally check off my questions as they get answered during an interview, or if they say, “do you have any questions” and I review my list to see what we already covered.

      Some people try to hide that stuff and look like they’re extemporizing the conversation out of their head, but there’s no reason to. People use agendas and take notes in important business meetings, and that’s what an interview is.

    17. Damn it, Hardison!*

      For my current position (started earlier this year), my first interview was 20 minutes with HR, and it was focused on my experience and why I was interested in the position. The only questions I asked were about the interview process and hiring timeline. It was a pretty basic screen. Once the hiring manager gave my application the go ahead, I had several traditional interviews, as well as another call with HR to talk about benefits, salary expectations, etc. before I was offered the job. Good luck!

    18. too many too soon*

      I ask something along the lines of ‘how do you support employees at different levels of professional development, i.e. veterans who are self-starting/managing as well as newbs who need more coaching/training?’
      My department just hired my new manager, who is also new to managing full time adult staff, and we veterans have been traumatized by some brutally bad supervisors. On the flip side, there are a lot of new staff hires that will need extra help, so it was nice to hear a layered approach to managing, instead of one size fits all.

    19. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      When I’m prepping for an interview, I take the job description (preferably reformatted so I can have it long and lean on a page. I then make tiny notes about how I fit each requirement and/or put in my questions. This sits in my folder and I look at it while I’m hanging out in reception.

      Then I also have on a pad of paper tiny notes down one side about my key points and questions that I bring out for the actual meeting. (e.g. “mgmt skills – the teapot spout story” “training – Fergus & Jane”)
      The top margin is where I put the names/titles of the people I’m talking to (in order of where they’re sitting). I leave space under each name to jot reminders about what they asked or told me during the interview.

      If my questions got answered during the conversation, I’ve checked them off, or I check them as I’m formulating my questions when they ask. So then I can say “gee, this has been great, I think we covered my list, except for B and C — so [insert B and C questions here]?”

      If it’s a double appointment on the same day, I might refer to my notes from the HR appt when chatting up the manager interviewer(s) for confirmation or clarification. And if I’m getting a vibe that we’re not covering “offer details” stuff yet, like the nitty gritty of benefits and whatever, then my question might shift to “Would details about the benefits plan come at the time of an offer, or can you give me a quick rundown what’s available?”

      Having a cheat sheet makes you look super organized and smart at the interview. (And I think it still works even for virtual ones.) The trick is to keep it all to one page that looks practically blank when you pull out your pad and paper so that you’re not flipping through pages and pages, and still have room for new notes.

    20. Spaceball One*

      I think having a lot of questions is good. I once had an interview where I had a lot of questions, and by the time we were done, the hiring manager said, gee, I think you asked as many questions of us as we did of you! They offered me the job a few days later. It would have been a significant pay cut, so it pained me to turn it down but I had to. But it was one of the more pleasant interviews I’ve ever been through.

    21. Chilipepper attitude*

      I asked a behavioral question or two at my most recent job interview (I got the job!). I asked if they could give me examples about how they work as a team to prevent conflicts.

  2. Networker*

    I wrote last week about trying to network with a contact I met randomly (link to follow)

    I followed the advice here, and sent my resume to the office manager listed on the website on Tuesday and got a confirmation email (from a person!) the same day.

    Today, they just posted a new job opening that might be a good fit…..

    a) I know you can apply to positions that are not a 100% fit. This new position is for someone with 3-5 years experience, I have about 8 years. Is that too great of a difference?

    b) Should I even apply to the new position? It directs to a different email address than I used earlier, but it’s a small company, and part of me (the dedicated AAM reader) thinks they have my stuff already and that’s that

    3. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      I think the “not 100% fit” is typically interpreted as “applying to things I’m slightly UNDERqualified for”, like wanting experience with softwares A and B and C, when you only have A and C, or wanting Masters + 5 years, when you have Bachelors + 3 years. Being OVER qualified is likely not an issue. (Caveat that if you had 20 years and were applying to an entry level position, yeah that’s probably not going to fly.)

      This might not be true for every field, but it certainly seems true for mine (accounting) – the years of experience is usually a MINIMUM, and having more experience than required is typically desirable.

      1. Yipsie*

        And what counts for over qualified doesn’t usually mean you have too many years experience in the role their looking for, its usually about having experience that is higher up in the hierarchy. So if you are a manager/executive applying for a more junior role.

    5. Coenobita*

      Definitely apply! Lots of places can’t/won’t consider your candidacy unless you go through the official process.

      1. I'm just here for the cats!*

        Yes go for it! and keep in mind that the 3-5 years a lot of the time is arbitrary. There’s this joke thing I see pop up on facebook every few months. There was more to it but it goes something like this:
        Guy developed some software for Company A that became very popular and is used in many different companies across industries. He’s looking at moving to another job at Company B. The job would be a step up for him. The job add wants 10+ years experience in the software that he developed only 3 years ago.

        So what I’m saying is don’t worry so much about the years. So many times job ads have years experience to = knowledge when it really does not equal the same thing. You could be terrible at coding but were able to squeek by for 3 years where another person is a coding genius but only has experience for 1 year.

    7. Anne of Green Gables*

      ALWAYS apply. I can’t speak for other companies, but at my employer, you must apply for that specific opening to be considered. If you applied before and I loved you and you only narrowly didn’t get the job because it was *this close* I still have to go through the whole process for my next opening.

      1. comityoferrors*

        Yup. I’m hiring right now and have a few candidates who I think would be excellent…to replace my other report who’s being managed out. For the position posted, we really need specific skills which these candidates don’t have. But when we manage out the other employee, I have two or three people tapped that I would like to reach out to and encourage to re-apply. With my hiring process, even if I know who I want in the role, I can’t consider them unless they submit an application and go through the interview process.

    8. Annony*

      I would apply just so long as you actually want the job posted. If you are hoping to convince them to make the position more senior, you could burn a bridge.

      1. Putting the "pro" in "procrastinate"*

        I don’t think this would burn a bridge. At least, speaking only for myself and the way my department does things, as a hiring manager I wouldn’t be offended by it. If I had the budget and flexibility to hire a senior person, I’d be delighted to talk to the candidate. If I didn’t, I would pass on the candidate, and that would be that.

    9. Person from the Resume*

      1) No. More experience is better. Apply for the job.

      2) Yes. Apply for the job. The office manager is not holding a bunch of resumes and trying to guess if the people on those resumes want to apply in order to apply for them.

    10. cubone*

      years in my opinion is such an unhelpful metric to assess someone’s candidacy. Personally when I hear “1-3 years experience required”, I think “entry level” (or junior-ish, even if it’s not your first entry job), and “10+” as “executive/managerial level”. That weird spot in between of 4-9 years is really odd for both candidates and employers. I interpret as “you need to have a decent amount of experience but not so much that you’re WAY overqualified”, you know? I think this is where there is the most flexibility. If I posted a role with 5 years experience and someone said 8, I wouldn’t bat an eye (unless the 8 were all very clearly progressively senior roles and this role was maybe a step ‘down’. And even then I wouldn’t disregard the application, I’d just make sure we were on the same page of the what the role and responsibility level is).

      All of this to say: definitely don’t overthink the # of years experience and focus instead on why you want to work for them!

    11. Observer*

      Should I even apply to the new position? It directs to a different email address than I used earlier, but it’s a small company, and part of me (the dedicated AAM reader) thinks they have my stuff already and that’s that

      As an AAM reader you should know better than that. It’s one thing to keep “reminding” a company that you applied. It’s another to expect them to READ YOUR MIND. You sent them your materials, but how should they know you are interested in THIS position? Sure, they might look at your materials and decide that they want to reach out. But they might not even though they would give you serious consideration if you showed interest in THAT position. So, show interest by applying.

    12. Richard Hershberger*

      I almost didn’t apply for the job I have been in for twelve years now. The ad listed a minimum GPA. My first thought was that they were looking for an entry level hire, which I was well past by that time. I decided to apply because why not? It turns out that my predecessor didn’t work out due to being unable to write, which is indeed important for my work. The GPA bit was a poorly executed attempt at conveying the thought that there was a lot of writing involved.

      So yeah, apply. It may be that you are indeed too overqualified for this to work well, but you will never know if you don’t ask.

    13. Falling Diphthong*

      Apply.
      I would swear there was a letter this week about not assuming the company has your stuff and will consider you for future roles as they arise.

  3. Into The Wild*

    I’ve been in my new job for five months and I still feel like there is a lot of training that got glossed over. This week, I was emailed by another department about an action item I’ve never heard of before that should be a regular duty of mine apparently. While I was trying to figure out how it was done, the person who had taken it over between my predecessor leaving and my being hired had already done it, without copying me on it or telling me about it. So then I sent out an email about it, and people replied back that they’ve already done it with this other person.

    Stuff like this has happened multiple times. There was no clear task list or training schedule when I came on, it’s been a lot of “oh yes, that’s something you need to know so let’s get you trained on that last minute”. Meanwhile I feel like I don’t have much to do and probably spend half the day twiddling my thumbs. I want the tasks that I meant to do, but I don’t even know what I’m supposed to do until it comes up and somebody’s already done it rather than coming to me and telling me how to do it. My boss is kind of all over the place and doesn’t remember things that I should be doing until I specifically ask about it. People seem happy to train me and give me the task to do when I ask, but they’re kind of plowing on business as normal as if I wasn’t here, and I’m constantly playing catch-up. It’s very frustrating. Any tips?

    1. House Tyrell*

      I’ve been in my job for 6 months and feel the exact same way! My boss has been here for ages, I started virtually during a reorg, and it feels like no one knows what to train me on because no one knows what is happening now after the reorg or it’s basic stuff that is so common knowledge to them they forget someone who hasn’t been here for a decade wouldn’t know that.

      What I’ve done is keep a running OneNote doc of all my questions and what I’m currently working on/need from people. My boss and I do two 1:1s a week which feels like a lot but has been helpful because we mostly use the second one for big picture stuff I don’t know yet and the earlier one is going over tasks. When I’m asked to do something that confuses me I don’t even start on it until I get all my questions answered and background information and that usually reminds my boss to teach me about 1-2 other related things. It’s very pieced together training to be honest but better than nothing and reminds everyone that you’re still pretty new and learning.

    2. Colette*

      Follow up with the person who did the task, and say “Hey, thanks for handling that. Can you show me how to do it so that I can handle it next time?”

      And build your own documentation as you go – X gets done Fridays, Y happens every second Tuesday, Z happens the first day of the month.

      1. CTT*

        Seconding this. If there was a gap in time between when your predecessor left and when you started, people adapted in their own way and they won’t know to change if you don’t get in touch with them.

      2. ferrina*

        Yes, this. Just let them know that you didn’t know but you’ll be happy to do it next time. Be proactive in scheduling any training that you need. If you handle it with grace and cheerful honesty, they will (should) understand that you’ve been doing your best and simply didn’t get information.

        To prevent in the future, schedule some semi-formal sit downs with your boss and some knowledgeable colleagues that you work closely with. Explain that this is happened to you a few times, and you’d love to be proactive about these things. Ask them to list every responsibility that your predecessor had that they knew of. Once you’ve got a list, go to your boss and ensure that he wants you do all of those tasks (some may be working better under a different role, who knows). The key is to be cheerfully proactive in all of this. It sounds very frustrating, but save that frustration for non-work friends.

      3. John Smith*

        I’ll second this, followed maybe an email to your team (or whoever) inviting them to send that portion of work your way once you know how to do it.

        However, are you sure you want to remain in an organisation that hasn’t even bothered training you properly? What else have they missed out? Are you the fire marshall or first aider but don’t know about it? It’s rather unsettling! Good luck though.

      4. I'm just here for the cats!*

        In the situation that was mentioned I would check to make sure that the other person hasn’t taken over the task for good and that the other team didn’t realize that your role no longer does that.

        Definitely go to your manager and say there’s been confusion on what tasks you are supposed to complete and wonder if there is a way to finalize your task list.

    3. cubone*

      I could’ve written this. This might not be the most helpful, but to be perfectly honest, I’m trying to be very discerning to assess if it’s the right place for me. I might just have a very low tolerance to it from some past not great jobs, but I think it’s a pretty big red flag when there’s no clear training or even list of responsibilities. It feels really odd to be asking people to help you understand what your job even IS, really (let alone show you how to do it) and in my case, I’m starting to see the connections where reactivity and disorganization is the standard and there’s no interest in changing it. I’m hoping to stick out a year just to see how things go, but I’m pretty confident this is how they operate and training, efficiency, and clearly outlined responsibilities isn’t a priority to them. They are to me, so it’s probably not the right fit.

      I think other commenters have some good tips on how to deal with it in the meantime, but I’d also try to pay attention to how people respond to your questions, efforts to make your own documentation/schedule, and how much of this they actually acknowledge is a challenge, vs. thinking it’s completely fine and dandy.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        I think asking for clarification about job responsibilities is a lot like asking for clarification on someone’s name: do it as soon as you notice a gap in info, sooner is better than later, because later it starts to look weird.

        If you’ve got a manager you report to, it would be worth scheduling a meeting with them to review your responsibilities. Bring a draft summary that you’ve put together based on any information you’ve gleaned from the job posting, hiring process, whatever minimal onboarding, direction you’ve gotten, as well as the vaguer things you’ve picked up on. And then use that to get input from your boss on what they are expecting you to focus on and if there are any key responsibilities you’ve missed. After the meeting, summarize it all to come up with your “job description”, possibly provide it back to your boss for review, in case something else comes to mind. Then at least you’ll be able to have some structure, guidelines to work from.

        And if boss is either reluctant to sit down and talk about this, or gives useless feedback such as “we all just jump in and do what’s needed” then at least you’ll have your answer about whether this is the right place and role for you sooner rather than later.

        In the meantime, are there any of your co-workers who seem to be a little island of sanity and organization? If so it might be worth getting to know them, interacting with them on whatever job functions of yours interact with theirs. They may be glad to work with someone else who isn’t reactive, and you might be able to carve out at least some respite from the dysfunction until you make other plans.

    4. Mockingjay*

      Ask your boss for a 1 on 1 check-in and write a duty list to go over.

      “Hi, boss, I’ve been in this role about six months now. I really enjoy it (blah, blah) and feel comfortable in most of my role, but I do have a question about whether a couple tasks are mine or Other Dept.’s. With the turnover before I came, there seems to be some confusion over who handles what. Can we go through this list and figure out assignments?”

      Then you can follow up as needed: recap email (I swear by these), request training for Task X (now that you know it’s your responsibility), etc.

      It sounds like your department lacks a blueprint for onboarding. That’s something you and your coworkers could pitch to the boss eventually, but get your work assignments clarified first.

    5. BlueDijon*

      Yeah I strongly feel that…. Someone else mentioned document, I would definitely second that, and compiling a skeleton like processing document. I have that, and it’s been really helpful to use in conversations with my manager about expectations and where I am aware I need to be acting and to make sure I am not missing anything. Granted, this requires them to follow through, but… it at least could help you feel better and have a better grasp of what you’re working on, and is theoretically being kind to whoever is in your role next.

    6. You get a pen and you get a pen*

      I, too, have been at my current employer for only a few months and have found this to be the case for me as well. In my instance, the month after I was hired, my boss stopped showing up at the office (our team is all back in office now). He is the only one that is able to train me & my role was sold to me as becoming his back-up and eventual successor upon his retirement. He has been back to work now for a couple of weeks but says he’s too busy playing catch-up to allow for any training time.

      I am not keen on leaving as I JUST took the job but am not sure what my options are.

    7. Chilipepper attitude*

      I felt that way years ago at my current job. So I wrote the training manual that we now use for all staff. Maybe write up your task list and run it by your supervisor and even ask others if there is anything that you left off?

  4. Salary Specifics*

    General question: How do you perform good salary research when your specialty either falls into the cracks of your field, or seems more tied to the industry than to your job duties?

    Specific example: I’m a technical writer, looking for a senior-level position. It’s a tech-adjacent job but it isn’t pure tech, so Levels/Blind/etc don’t apply. TechComm communities are telling me that Glassdoor and BLS are all over the place and not accurate. The industry society, STC, puts out a yearly salary document, but it’s pulled directly from the BLS, so per previous sources that isn’t useful. Lots of people suggest Write the Docs, but that’s for software technical writing. I’m in product technical writing, for actual physical objects. I’m finding that estimates for physical products seem heavily tied to the product’s industry–for example, writing manuals for consumer products is $, writing manuals for industrial machinery is $$, writing manuals for hospital equipment is $$$. I’m so frustrated and lost, and trying to play chicken with recruiters is just not working.

    1. Rainy*

      Have you tried payscale dot com? I usually look at a lot of different resources in a case where there’s not a clear way to figure out a reasonable salary expectation, and payscale is one of those sites.

    2. CindyLouWho*

      Are you sure the STC salary document is from BLS data? They usually do a survey, I think.

      That’s where I’m going to look today, in fact, for some negotiating I need to do.

    3. A*

      I was in a similar situation a few years ago – was in a very specialized line of work, with a narrow focus within that. My job title was vague and general salary market data is heavily skewed. I knew I was being paid well below what the market value of my work was, but needed documentation to back it up as part of my salary renegotiation pitch. I ended up hiring a consultant to pull together market data specific to my narrow focus – but at a high level so it was a quick job, cost me around $100. At the same time I reached out to my colleagues in the same function both at my company and others and asked about their backgrounds, responsibilities, and salary ranges (this was after laws were put in place protecting employees rights to discuss/disclose salaries – and I only asked those I felt would be open to that line of questioning and/or knew me well enough to feel comfortable declining if they felt the need to).

      I used those two data sets to put together a presentation for my employer at the time highlighting where my current salary fell in relation (also included a slide that conveniently highlighted where my current salary fell compared to my male colleagues with comparable backgrounds – didn’t call it out specifically, but just having that included got the message across that this was a bigger issue). It was a bit of a pain, but it worked – and I’m so glad I decided to get outside help because the data the consultant had access to was much more specific than what I was able to find on paid reports from salary data websites. It also added legitimacy to the data as they were able to provide source citations and backup data in a way that was less easy to dismiss than say a report from salary dot com or something.

    4. Generic Name*

      The State of Colorado has a law that all job postings must include information on pay. So even if you don’t live in Colorado, it might still be useful information. But it looks like you’re seeing salary info, and it varies by industry. I think that’s true for a lot of types of jobs. I’m in life sciences, and I could work in nonprofit, government, industry, and consulting, and each industry has a different pay range.

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        Seconding this, and also the fed gov has a bunch of tech Writer jobs and they disclose salaries for everything. So maybe use those are a kind of salary floor? Gov will probably pay less than the private sector.

      2. PostalMixup*

        Even within the same city, within the same category, salary can be wildly different. My city has a surprising amount of life science industry; some pharma, some ag, some reagent suppliers. There’s a 50% difference in pay between the lowest paying company (mine, unfortunately) and the highest for the same job and seniority/experience level.

      3. Lauren Comrade*

        Ah – I remember reading a while back that’s why a lot of remote jobs exclude CO applicants from applying. So shady.

    5. Anon this time*

      I’m also a tech writer for industrial equipment and I feel your pain. I have no idea how much someone like me is “supposed to earn”, and as far as I can tell, employers have no idea either.

      My first tech writing job, when I left after 8 years, my salary was $70k. Took a break for a few years, then started applying for tech writing jobs again. The first recruiter who called me back asked my salary expectation and I said $70k, and he was like, “just so you know, it’s not really a senior position,” so I was like, “ok, how about $50k?” I interviewed but didn’t get the job, I suspect because I was still asking too much.

      Out of desperation, I ended up taking a job that was part tech support and part tech writing for $35k, eventually rising to $45k after a few years.

      Then when I applied for my current job, the only clue I had about their expectation was that it was a non-exempt (meaning at least $58k), so I asked for $60k, which must have been too low because they offered me $65k. (Still slightly kicking myself for that.)

      (For reference, where I live, the COL index is 120, and the median individual income is $32k.)

      1. Jennifer Fregeolle*

        Happy Friday, Fellow Technical Writer! The STC’s report actually is a good baseline for our trade, even if it’s not specialized to what you’re doing – the critical pieces are the industry and your company’s location. If your gig is a hybrid of user’s guides, web content, and marketing fluff, you could cross-reference with salaries for copywriters or editors, but otherwise, the report is pretty accurate.
        Hope this helps. One other tip: if your colleagues aren’t sure what you do – and depending on the size of your company, they probably aren’t – prep an elevator speech-type description and share it with everyone who has even the slightest interest. Also, if your company does this, get a 10-minute spot at an all-hands Department Meeting to talk to what you do and, more importantly, how you add value. This will help you AND your company better categorize/qualify your work.

    6. PM*

      The only way I’ve figure out how to do this is to talk to recruiters and ask about pay. I respond to random emails on linked in, and I do a lot of screening calls. It’s a bit more work-intensive, but it’s been the best of source of getting an understanding of the range for my particular skill set.

    7. cubone*

      Do you have trusted friends/mentors/contacts in the industry you can ask? Obviously “hey, what’s your salary” is not a great question unprompted but you could even frame it as: “I’m hoping to do X work and to be honest, I’m having trouble putting realistic estimates to offer recruiters because of the unique nature of my work. Would you be willing to share an estimate of what you would expect a role like XYZ to be paid, based on your experience in the industry?”

      Not in tech but I’ve been very politely and no pressure asked something similar by folks looking to get into my area of work, and I find it pretty easy/non-invasive to say “from my experience, X roles pay in this range” etc.

    8. Lorac*

      One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned is looking at H1B salaries.

      By law, H1B salaries have to be publicly available, so you can look on H1B salary sites, search for your company, and see what they hired H1B workers for. That’s how I found out I was being paid about the same as my visa coworkers, and possibly less if they received RSU compensation!

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Have you looked at Alison’s salary survey from earlier this year? Factor for degree, because for our role, BS often pays more than BA.

  5. TheyThemTheirs*

    I posted awhile ago about my boss misgendering me. I don’t know what changed, but all of the sudden all my coworkers and my boss are gendering me correctly. It is very weird but I’m grateful for it. Thanks to everyone for their comments here.

    6. I'm just here for the cats!*

      Maybe someone figuratively shook them and told them all to stop it! Or maybe it just finally clicked for all of them.
      So glad for you!

  6. Ali G*

    Can anyone recommend a good (quick) icebreaker exercise for a virtual meeting? We are doing a trianing that normally happens in person but it’s virtual this year. We will have people participating from all over North America and so I want to break people up into groups of 5-10 and do a quick icebreaker/intro. Literally don’t want to spend more than 15 min on this and I don’t want it to be too onerous for a group of typical introverts.
    Thanks!

    1. Alexis Rosay*

      Some I have enjoyed in the past, YMMV:
      – What’s the first or most unusual job you’ve had?
      – What is your favorite emoji to use and why?

      1. The Rural Juror*

        I’m laughing thinking of someone saying they love to use the eggplant emoji…but not realizing its innuendo…

        1. Olivia Mansfield*

          My husband bought a purple kayak and one of the guys at the waterpark said it looked just like the eggplant emoji. All the guys spent the whole day making eggplant emoji jokes about his kayak. I asked him if he knew what the eggplant emoji signifies, and when I had to tell him, he was like, “Ohhh god — I think my boat is ruined for me!” He finally got over it, and now he has a vinyl “Aubergine” sticker on there as a little joke.

      2. Blink*

        I love the emoji one! We have weekly zoom meetings that start with some kind of silly question – I’ll be using that one!

      3. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Some years back, a new executive brought together a recently reorganized team. We’d been in different management chains until that point. When we did introductions, he asked us to include one non-work- related skill we like to talk about. Juggling, furniture design, photography, martial arts, knitting, ballroom dance, brewing… it was a fun conversation. More importantly, it somehow thawed a couple of *existing* relationships, which I’ve never seen happen with an ice breaker before or since.

    2. sagewhiz*

      Suggest they group themselves according to birth month! This was done at a major conf I attended years ago, and was a huge hit.

      1. MissCoco*

        A couple other ways to “randomize” groups is to go by birth date (either day and month or just days within any month). That one is fun for larger groups because it’s almost guaranteed that there will be shared birthdays
        Alphabetic order by a random factoid (like the street you live on, favorite food, or your favorite place to visit), or number of letters in names are also easy ways to put people in order, and then divide into groups of X number of people.

      2. Mademoiselle Sugarlump*

        My fairly large group did something like this at a conference – everyone had to line up in birthday (month / day) order – without talking, just sign language. It was really fun!

    3. Meghan*

      My partner has weekly “moral” questions at his work meeting, and they’re just silly positive-forward questions to get the meeting going. This weeks was, “What are you looking forward to?” My partners answer was, “Tacos!” as we were having them for dinner that night. Other questions have been the silly bread graph on how toasty do you like your bread. Another (heated one) was “is a hotdog a sandwich” debate.

        1. Hannah Lee*

          LOL! I was really curious what the moral questions were going to be, because some ethical quandaries would absolutely NOT be a quick icebreaker to kick off a meeting.

      2. Kimmy Schmidt*

        If you have the right group for it, I adore those ridiculous “is a hotdog a sandwich” type questions. Other favorites include “if a dog wore pants, would she wear them on two legs or four” (four) and “is cereal a soup” (yes) and “what is the right way to pronounce gif” (jif) and “is water wet” (yes).

        1. Anne of Green Gables*

          I did a fun one where you had 30 seconds to grab an unusual item around your desk and show it to folks. It was a nice way to see the fun knick-knacks that mean something to people, but wasn’t super personal in a forced kind of way (which can be a problem with lots of ice breakers)

            1. Jay Gobbo*

              My team did a whole “virtual Olympics” that was all silly little games like that. “The first person to grab 12 pens wins”, etc. Honestly it was goofy but super fun, as Anne said above none of it was too personal or awkward which is very important!

        2. Pippin*

          A recent one that came up was crunchy vs smooth peanut butter. But only in the US-my Scottish colleague felt the question was absurd :)

          1. Trawna*

            Staff deathly allergic to the stuff might find the discussion more than just absurd, and really not an ice-breaker.

              1. RussianInTexas*

                ^^^this. By this logic you can’t have ANY tiebreakers ever. Because someone may be allergic to hot dogs too.

            2. OpalescentTreeShark*

              Oh you can’t be serious I teach high schoolers, and even then aren’t this dramatic about peanut butter.

            3. Annie Moose*

              Are you implying that people with food allergies are traumatized by simply hearing the food mentioned??? People with peanut butter allergies are perfectly capable of going “nah I’m actually allergic” and do not need you to “defend” them from the terrible fate of someone asking them if they like peanut butter!

            4. RagingADHD*

              If the staff are having anaphylactic shock from the *word* peanut butter, then that’s not actually an allergy.

        3. Mr. Shark*

          A hot dog is a sandwich.
          The dog would only wear the pants on two legs.
          Cereal is not a soup.
          It’s “Gif” not Jif
          Water is wet (yes!)

        4. Jay Gobbo*

          Kimmy, thank you for joining me in “it’s pronounced jif” land ;)

          Honestly I don’t mind the debate/divide, I just hate how nasty people get about it. Like people treat you like you’re stupid and inherently wrong for pronouncing it that way — when it wouldn’t be a question if *everyone* pronounced it the same way! Obviously there’s a dialectal reason why people pronounce it one way or the other!

          My brother is a teacher and he once had his students list every word they could think of that starts with gi– so he could show them how it’s a pretty even split of common words pronounced with a “hard g” vs. “j” sound. I love that he did that XD

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            My teenager gave me the perfect answer for that: it’s pronounced exactly like the G in garage.

            1. Nina*

              so depending how fancy your parents imagined themselves to be…

              gif (hard g)
              jif (soft g)
              zhif (French j, ‘garazhhh’)

        5. banoffee pie*

          Is a jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit? People used to be able to argue about that for ages. But then the courts ruled on it (cake). McVities was pleased about that because they means they don’t have to pay VAT. Maybe you don’t have jaffa cakes in the US though so the question would just confuse everyone.

        6. Might Be Spam*

          According to Steve Wilhite, the creator of the original GIF format, it is pronounced “jiff” (like the peanut butter brand). However, most people still pronounce it “gif” (with a hard G)

      3. A*

        “is a hotdog a sandwich”

        Whoa. Bold to take on such a divisive topic! We have a similar one that comes up often… “what is your opinion on pineapple on pizza?” it’s a silly question, but one that people have very strong thoughts and feelings on so everyone is always engaged in the discussion, but in a lighthearted way! I’m totally stealing the hotdog version.

        1. allathian*

          Oh yeah, pineapple on a pizza is a great question. Most people who eat pizza have an opinion about that. That said, another version is, “which is worse, pineapple or banana on a pizza?” Yes, banana is a popular pizza topping in Sweden, apparently.

          1. Chilipepper attitude*

            In the UK in the early 90s, we were served a sunny side up (practically raw) egg in the middle of our pizza!

      4. cubone*

        Shucks, I was really hoping these meetings were opening with a Trolley Problem question. Now that would be a wild icebreaker.

        1. pancakes*

          Anything but that one, please!

          Actually, I’d avoid the ones that have a one-word answer, too. There isn’t much ice-breaking going on with those.

          Dream travel destination, maybe?

          1. OpalescentTreeShark*

            Can’t you just add “why” to the one-word icebreakers? This is what I do with my students.

            1. pancakes*

              I suppose, but I think they’ll still tend to make for less interesting discussion than some of the others suggested.

        1. MacGillicuddy*

          Unless you have a toddler who likes to spin the TP roll on the holder, and you end up with a huge pile of TP on the floor! In this case “under” is the correct answer.

    4. A&D*

      If they’re already doing an intro that presumably includes location, so maybe one thing they enjoy about their city, or one thing everyone should do in their city on a visit? I like icebreakers that aren’t totally random, and that can require as much thought as the speaker wants (aka listing the major tourist attraction in their city or providing an off-the-beaten path rec or activity).

        1. AY*

          I knew some commenters wouldn’t be able to resist dumping on icebreakers, but it really, super, extremely is not helpful to this OP.

      3. Ali G*

        I think my attendees are capable of being not serious for 15 min out of over 18 hours total of “work”. But, thanks.

          1. pancakes*

            Surely people who really dislike wasting even a few minutes on chatting can handle their own minor disappointment or frustration without acting out.

          2. I heart Paul Buchman*

            Ice breakers serve a purpose. Meetings that begin with an ice breaker have a different culture and format to those that don’t. Personally, I love a good ice breaker and so do my colleagues (evidenced by the fact that we often have to rein them in).
            I can’t imagine working with people who can’t even take 15 minutes to be pleasant.

          3. OpalescentTreeShark*

            My question is why one adult is responsible for managing these feelings for another adult, especially considering icebreakers last for a short amount of time. Why do you think that these feelings of annoyance and inconvenience are so severe that someone should have to anticipate another adult’s reaction and modify for it?

      4. Olivia Mansfield*

        The icebreakers I’ve encountered happen during the five minutes before the meeting starts and people answer them as they trickle in. They wrap up within 3 – 5 minutes of the meeting’s actual start time, so that anyone who didn’t get to answer the question has a chance if they want to, but it’s primarily a pre-meeting activity as people log on.

      5. Feral Fairy*

        I get why some people don’t like ice breakers, but they exist for a reason. It’s a way to get to know something about someone’s personality or likes/dislikes. In the context of remote work, I think that teams are doing them so that people who were onboarded during covid can still be introduced to their remote coworkers.

        There are definitely bad icebreakers out there that either take too long or ask personal questions (like the one from a recent letter here that was something like “what was the most traumatic experience of your life”. I think that’s why this commenter is asking for input…

      6. I need cheesecake*

        Actually icebreakers help people learn better in training and bonding helps teams perform better. HTH

    6. Blink*

      These have all been fairly successful in the past:
      – describe your perfect sandwich
      – describe an extremely silly conspiracy that you think might be true (mine is that Derren Brown is actually magic, but he thinks he isn’t)
      – would you rather get socks or a scented candle for a birthday present
      – would you rather be able to play any instrument or speak six languages fluently
      – show and tell (ie hold up to the camera) some version of: your favourite mug; longest-lived houseplant; cheesiest souvenir; most impractical kitchen gadget; favourite photo

      1. Filosofickle*

        Similar to sandwich, I’ve had good luck with favorite breakfast cereal as a “introduce yourself” icebreaker. (Or what you’d eat instead if you hate cereal.) It’s accessible and not too likely to trigger cultural or personal stuff.

    7. Girasol*

      I’ve always been a fan of two truths and a lie. Each person tells three unusual things about themselves and everyone else tries to guess which one isn’t true. It makes one’s new coworkers rather memorable.

    10. Twisted Lion*

      Well people just had debates about the perfect ratio of Peanut Butter to Jelly on a sandwich. That might be one you can do.

    11. LKW*

      Draw a Pig. – Google “Draw a Pig Icebreaker” for more details.
      In short, everyone draws a pig. Then you hand out the “how to interpret your drawing” sheet. People can share the pig picture by holding it up to the screen – or simply say how they drew the pig – or not. No real personal info is shared, just an insight into perspective.

    12. MissCoco*

      We recently had a pretty enjoyable discussion around a silly “would you rather” question asked in a class poll, since it doesn’t involve any personal info, and people don’t have to make up a creative answer it seemed to open up a lot of discussion. Plus since there was no real-world consequence, people were more passionate about their (silly) opinions than usual.

      Some other questions I’ve liked: what’s your favorite thing to do on a rainy day? Favorite food to make or eat? How do you take your coffee/tea/morning beverage of choice? What would your ultimate pizza toppings be? Or your personal favorite sandwich?

    13. Chauncy Gardener*

      A trivia game is always fun. Each breakout group is a team and they need to appoint a team lead and answer the questions

    14. TiffIf*

      My department’s standard questions for new hires, when they first get introduced in a department meeting:
      – Who is your favorite Disney Princess?
      – What is your favorite breakfast cereal?

      These questions are lighthearted and fun!

    15. PostalMixup*

      For our big internal conference this year, we were asked to put together “about me” slides that included the question “Who is your favorite animated character.” Answers ranged from old kids cartoons to modern kids cartoons to adult-targeted animation to international animation. Lots of stuff I’d never heard of, which was fun. It tells a little about a person, because you find out who spends enough time around kids to know who Fig the Fox is, or who’s an anime buff, or who’s clearly too young to have watched Josie and the Pussycats when it first aired but is apparently an old-school type.

      1. Vici*

        I hate anything that asks for a favourite, as I don’t usually have one and I find it stressful to have to pretend. It makes me feel left out and unwelcome – like I don’t fit in, again.

        1. I need cheesecake*

          This sounds upsetting for you, but I’m going to refer you to the ‘not everyone can have sandwiches’ rule. It’s not unreasonable to ask for a favourite. They’re not asking you to swear it in blood and die for it!

          1. Seeking Second Childhood*

            Wow. Personally I WANT to hear potential drawbacks of an ice breaker. It’s specifically intended to set people at ease. And especially when it’s so very easy to add “or if you don’t have a favorite one you eat the most”.

    17. smirkpretty*

      I love “share one boring thing about yourself.” And encourage people not to try to be clever or funny, just truly boring, and to present it with as little fanfare as possible. It almost always leads to fun, interesting conversation. Seed them with one or two of your own. Like, I can’t for the life of me figure out how to boil an egg properly. My dog’s nails grow really long even though I trim them and I worry it bothers the downstairs neighbors. And I can’t stand when invitations/announcements include the date without the day of the week.

      1. Cordelia*

        I love this one! totally takes the pressure off needing to be funny or exciting or have interesting tales to tell. Actually, I wonder if this would work for “2 truths and a lie”, but all the facts have to be dull – I bet it would. Thanks, that’s my next ice breaker sorted!

        1. Green Goose*

          I love both these ideas! I have to come up with icebreakers so I’m definitely stealing these.

    18. Epsilon Delta*

      I don’t have a specific icebreaker suggestion, but whatever you choose please keep it simple. The worst ice breakers are where there’s like 5 things you have to remember to share or one that’s really hard to think of, and you spend the whole time trying to think of a clever answer or rehearsing the five things you have to say instead of listening to everyone else.

    19. Metadata minion*

      My workplace once used “share something that brings you joy”, and it worked particularly well since there wasn’t any obligation to be deeply profound about it — answers ranged from coffee or pet antics to finding meaning in the work we do to.

    20. Green Goose*

      Here is one that has always been easy to answer and gets a bit fun:
      What is a popular food you don’t like?
      What is an unpopular food that you love?

    21. Just me, Vee*

      Just don’t use the one that was asled in a group I was in .”Share the worst thing that ever happened to you.” Seriously.

    22. I need cheesecake*

      Google ‘How are things going today on a rubber duck scale’. This works well with basically everyone in my experience.

    23. The New Wanderer*

      In the past we have used “what’s your favorite superhero” (or if not a fan of favorites, just “name a superhero”).

      One that took a bit longer to prepare was “name an inventor you admire.”

      My personal favorite was “what spaceship would you most like to own/fly/be a crew member of?”

      Other options:
      Name a bucket list item you want to do.
      What book are you planning to read next?
      What fictional boss/workplace would you love to work for?

    24. acahacker*

      Thanks Ali G and everyone for all of these suggestions! Have compiled these (with acknowledgments) for use in a (higher ed / adult ed) online classroom context – excellent quick icebreakers for first day of teaching!

  7. Friday is not Monday*

    I work on very deadline-focused work. I am having an issue where my boss and I will agree to have a complete draft of something on, say, Monday, in order to be ready to submit it by the deadline. However, I find that she will frequently want to check the draft some random time that is not Monday and now I feel “bad” that it’s not ready, even though we said Monday. I am juggling different deadlines and there’s really no point her wasting time reviewing something on, say, Friday afternoon when I haven’t finished it. Now I feel guilty and like I was late but … we said Monday!! It’s Friday!! Am I thinking of this wrong? I realize some people manage to always have work in a condition to be checked at any time and I certainly aspire to that, but as I said, I have multiple simultaneous projects going.

    1. 867-5309*

      I would just ask. “I was working against the Monday deadline for getting a first draft to you so don’t have something to show just yet. Do you need it sooner?”

    2. California Dreamin’*

      I’m probably more like your boss than you, and I would find if somebody said, “My plan is to work on it this afternoon and finish up on Monday morning to review with you at x time on Monday” that would work for me. I don’t typically ask for f/u like that though unless my TM has a history of missing deadlines, so your boss may be different.

      1. Friday is not Monday*

        I do feel like it’s totally her (but I realize I’m biased and feeling defensive). I’m pretty sure she has some holes in her schedule, gets bored, and decides to check up on my stuff even though that’s not the timeline I was tracking. Partly I suspect she finds my stuff more “fun” than most of her work, although she has a *lot* of other things I wish she’d focus on.

    3. fueled by coffee*

      This sounds like it might just be a mismatch of expectations: Your workflow involves completing things as they are due, and she seems to expect you to have made substantial progress ahead of the deadline.

      If this is happening consistently, maybe it’s time to have a conversation with your boss about how you can bring your expectations in line here. Would it help to have a more explicit pre-deadline “check-in” date to review your progress (i.e., “I’ll have a draft completed by Monday, but on Friday I’ll send you [an outline/a rough draft/the first five pages] so you can look it over”)? Or would it help to be very clear that you will have your work finished by the deadline, and not before (“I’ll have this draft completed by Monday. If you’re going to want to look at it earlier than that, then we should change the deadline, because with projects X, Y, and Z on my plate, I’ll have to prioritize things by their due dates.”)?

      1. Friday is not Monday*

        I think you’re right and this is where I need to end up. It irritates me because we’ve already backed up from the actual deadline to our own internal review deadline, and now I guess we’re going to back it up even further for *her* internal review deadline; these are generally pretty short turnaround projects (usually two weeks total) so this is going to get a bit silly (here is your new assignment I need a review draft right this second) – but I may just need to adjust my thinking.

    4. Designer*

      First off, don’t feel guilty because it’s not ready, clients do this all the time (I work in graphic design, and constantly have people checking in earlier than what I initially told them to expect something.) I would be upfront to her about your work schedule and work flow, sometimes people don’t think it through when they reach out about projects. I would just tell her “I haven’t gotten to it yet/I’m not at the point to review it yet, but I’ll have it ready by Monday at our agreed time.” I find that tends to get people off my back. If she pushes about still seeing it sooner, make sure you are clear about any conflicting projects. “If this is a higher priority now, then I’ll adjust my schedule so we can meet at four today about project X instead, but I’m going to have to put off project Y until Monday, is that okay?” That way it calls out any conflicts, and puts it on her about prioritizing, as your boss that’s what she should be doing. If she seems unhappy about it or still has issues, then she’s not telling you what she actually wants you to do, and is putting unreasonable expectations on you, and I would ask her to clarify how she wants you to work.

    5. ferrina*

      Is she looking to review the draft early, or is she just checking the progress?

      I work with several people who like to look at a draft a couple days before they do their actual review. It helps them understand the direction of the work and start to think about what questions or key areas they want to focus on when they do their actual review. If it’s something like this, try to recalibrate your brain as “She’s getting a sneak peek to start warming up her brain for the review”. It’s about her, not you or the draft.

      1. Friday is not Monday*

        In that case, I want her to tell me that explicitly! “I need a draft ready for my review on Tuesday” is different than “have the draft by Friday.” That would change my prioritization. I guess I should start asking her explicitly but I am irked I tell you, irked.

        1. Working Hypothesis*

          It may be that you feel a need to have something “ready for her review” as a specific status, whereas she just wants to see what you’ve got at that time, without expecting it to be specially prepared for her delectation. Can you clarify exactly what she expects stuff to look like, and whether she’s expecting completed or just “let me see it at whatever messy condition it’s in” when she asks for an unexpected look before the stated deadline?

          1. ferrina*

            This is what I was thinking. She might just be checking to see what it looks like, but not expect it to be done or “ready for review”. I’ve seen people check a doc early so they can see what the layout looks like, or understand the main arguments in the doc, but they don’t care about punctuation or minor details until Official Review Time.

            1. Friday is not Monday*

              If someone plans to search out my files on the shared drive and review them for whatever reason, I’d appreciate a heads up on that! Of course it is her right but I’m going to start keeping my drafts on my desktop if this is standard.

        2. Esmeralda*

          I do a lot of drafts in google docs and share w my supervisor. I let him know when it’s helpful for him to review it, or when it’s at the “here’s the completed draft for review” stage. If he wants to look at it sooner he can. Usually he’s too busy to do that. Sometimes he has a nanosecond and looks at a draft in progress and offers suggestions, to which I say “thanks!” and then use or not as appropriate. I will take a little time to explain briefly in the doc comments why I’m not following up with one of his suggestions. (I trust him to not waste my time with pointless suggestions, so I assume there’s a point, and he trusts me to use my expertise and judgment. Awesome boss.)

          Maybe something like this would work with your boss?

          Anyway, your boss is not a mind reader. I think you just need to sit down with her and figure out what each of you expects. Also, I’m sure you’re just venting here, but try not to convey the feeling behind she’s looking at your stuff because she’s bored. Unless you know for sure that she’s spending a lot of time thumb-twiddling, assume she’s as busy as you. Maybe busier.

    6. Clisby*

      When you say a “complete draft”, do you mean a final draft? If so, I can easily see a boss wanting to see an earlier draft a few days before. But of course, she should say so. “I’d like to see a first draft by COB on Wednesday, so I can review and give input for the final draft due at 8 a.m. Monday.”

    7. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      Perhaps your boss is assuming you work on everything a little bit every day (like in primary/secondary school with math, science, history, etc), and not what you’re really doing (and what I would do), of going “Ok, I’ll do A on Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday is B, Thursday I’ll finish up B if there’s anything still to be done, then the rest of Thursday and Friday will be C”.

      1. Friday is not Monday*

        Yeah, a lot of times what I have is a completely vomitous draft of goobledy gook of A, that is going to stay that way until it comes back to the top of the deadline pile because I’m getting B over the finish line – so her looking at or editing A (which she will do given half a chance) is a big source of stress for me.

    8. Trawna*

      Hum. There is nothing here to feel “guilty” about. Tell her you’re on-track for her to review on Monday as promised.

    9. EmKay*

      Boy oh boy do I have **no** patience for this nonsense.

      – are you finished with that report due next Monday?
      – nope, still working on it
      – what?? but it’s Wednesday already! omg you are so late, will you make it on time?
      – maybe if you let me get back to work

      1. Owlgal*

        Ugh. I’m the type of person who only does one draft. I used to hate English classes where they’d want you to turn in 1. An outline and 2. A rough draft. My mind doesn’t work that way.

    10. Teapot Wrangler*

      My advice is to keep the draft only on your personal drive until you’re done with it – move it into the shared drive only once it is ready to be reviewed. If she asks for it earlier, you can say it isn’t ready yet – didn’t we agree Monday was the deadline?

      Make sure you’re clear on timings if there is any scope for confusion e.g. close of business Friday means (to me) that it has to be with me by 5.30pm Friday whereas some people assume it just has to have arrived before logging on Monday morning

  8. Christiania*

    I’m about 4 months into a “good-enough” job. It’s my first after college, it’s in my field, my coworkers are nice, and it pays decently. It’s not want I want to do with my career, but I’m planning on staying about 18 months to get experience and references. [And so people will stop asking about my GPA.]

    For now, I’ve been keeping a list of companies I’d like to take my time and look into whether they’re a good fit for me. Usually I jot it down in my Notes app if I’m reading an industry thing or see something interesting. My question is, how do I decide if it’s a good fit, especially when I’m not planning on interviewing for at least a year? Office culture is important to me, obviously, but so are professional ethics and active sustainability, which are a little harder to get a true sense of.

    1. Colette*

      Do you have contacts at those companies – former classmates, friends of friends, etc.? Can you make an effort to talk with them about what life’s like there?

      Also, watch the news as well as the company’s blog/press releases.

    2. Rainy*

      Reach out to people in those organizations and do some informational interviewing. That way you can ask directly about the things you’re curious about without worrying it will derail a job interview or impact an interviewer’s impression of you.

    3. Coenobita*

      I think your situation is perfect for informational interviews! Maybe plumb your network to see if you have connections or connections-of-connections at any of those places (whether that’s through an alumni group, faith community, whatever). I’m personally always happy to chat for 30 minutes with a recent grad who is trying to figure out the field, especially when it’s a truly informational interview and not a backdoor attempt to get hired.

    4. Wendy City*

      This isn’t specific to professional ethics and active sustainability, but keep an eye on their LinkedIn presence – do they frequently have lots of new job postings, especially for the same roll? Are they constantly looking for new directors/higher level decision makers? Those are both huge red flags for me – it says that the environment is chaotic.

      Definitely start working that professional network as others have mentioned. It might be worth informational interviewing with a couple of folks at those companies.

    5. ATX*

      I have a list of companies that I’d like to apply to if one day I’m looking for a good job. I’m at a Fortune 100 company with great benefits, so my requirements are pretty picky (and my list is small as a result, lol).

      Here are some things I look at:

      – I stay away from smaller companies, they tend to pay less and have fewer benefits. And I never do start-ups.
      – I do read Glassdoor reviews and like when companies have over 4 stars, love their CEO, and there are US employees talking about what type of PTO/stock options/401k match/health insurance they have
      – If a company offers “unlimited PTO” – do the Glassdoor reviews say that they honor that and people actually take a good amount of time off, or is there so much work that you can never take more than a few days or a week? I would never apply to a job that didn’t offer at least 4 weeks of vacation (I get 4 now, and can buy an extra week)
      – The average salaries for that job, I check them out.
      – Is this company on one of the “best of” lists?
      – How many applicants are there on LinkedIn? If there are tons, it usually means a lot of people want to work there for a reason (and it will be competitive, which sucks)
      – Remote flexibility. Doesn’t have to be full remote, I’m currently 60% remote 40% in office so I’d prefer something similar to that

    6. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Follow your target companies on Twitter, not just LinkedIn. Sometimes you can get sneaky insights about stuff (especially if they post pics of staff bringing cans to the food drive or posing at their retreat), and they might also post about opportunities.

      Check LinkedIn profiles to “meet” people at those companies, see how they describe their work. You don’t have to directly reach out to them, just read through their profiles and follow them if they are actively posting.

      Also — good for you. This is SO SMART.

    7. LKW*

      For general ethics – follow news feeds about business and litigation. It’s not 100% – one employee can be a crook and the rest stand up citizens, but consider how the issue came about and whether this was a person acting alone or potentially part of a larger culture issue where people turned a blind eye to unethical practices. Think companies that knowingly cause their customers harm for the sake of more money. Or companies that are in the news with discrimination litigation.

      But you can also get info on their websites or ask about their actual practices. Diversity in the workplace? What kinds of organizational initiatives do they support? Are their communities of interest? What events do they publicly support? Which politicians do they give money to? What kinds of charitable organizations are they affiliated with? Are they committing to, and tracking, sustainability efforts, diversity hiring efforts – how public are they with these efforts?

  9. For the assist*

    I started a new job a few months ago, and the responsibilities are much more demanding/extensive than advertised. (My position was posted as an assistant-level role, but I’ve consistently been required to identify, plan, and execute projects with minimal oversight on top of a full plate of assistant-level tasks.) I’m on a tiny team at a large employer with salary bands and semi-standard titles. My current title is a hindrance for some of the bigger tasks I’ve been asked to complete, and I would have negotiated for more if I’d known what the role required! How should I approach this with my supervisor?

    1. 867-5309*

      Ask for a check in, under the guise of you’ve been there a few minutes and want to get some feedback. Then ask, “When interviewing, the role was positioned as an assistant-level but I’ve been doing work at the manager level, like planning and executing projects with minimal oversight. This is on top of a full plate of assistant-level tasks. Normally, I would not ask this so early into a job but wonder if given how much it’s changed, does it make sense to reevaluate my title and salary, or adjust the workload so I can focus successfully on the tasks like x, y and z.”

    2. Observer*

      Ask for a check in.

      Bring up the fact that you are doing tasks X, Y, and Z that you are happy to do. But the fact that you are at an Assistant level rather than a Assistee level creates these particular roadblocks to accomplishing your assignments. Can this be addressed. Of course, you should also bring up how much things have changed from how the job was sold, but it’s still early so your boss is likely to be resistant, and pointing out how the title change will enable you to do what your boss wants you to do makes it much more appealing.

    3. Eleanor Shellstrop*

      Seconding what other have said about having a check-in with your boss! I could have written this exact same comment, honestly. I really hear you on your current title being a hindrance for what you’re working on – I had an experience where my title was “front desk assistant” but the actual work was more high level than that would imply, and the types of projects I was working on required a lot of liaising with external vendors/stakeholders, and I felt like sometimes my title wasn’t getting the response I needed from them to do my work well.

      Is your role a newly created one, or was someone in the position prior to you? For me, my role was newly created, so I was able to come to my boss and say basically “The responsibilities of this job are not in line with the title/job description that was created, can we have a conversation about updating the title to reflect the duties I have taken on?” And then I offered a few different titles that I felt would make sense, as well as research I had done on similar positions in the field that used the proposed title. But I bet you could still have a similar conversation if the role is not a new one, it may just be that the person before you didn’t advocate for themselves (or wasn’t as high of a performer so wasn’t assigned as much work?)

  10. SpEd Teacher*

    I am a special education teacher in a public school. I’m 12 years in. I have a masters degree +60 credits. I am making $90k and I have summers off and work 40 hours a week about 10 minutes from my house. But I am so over it. It’s not quite soul crushing yet, but I do not enjoy the work. (I like the people I work with and I have a good principal.) Can anyone thing of anything else I could do and keep my hours and pay about the same? I’m feeling like I’m pretty stuck. Now it could be that after 12 years I’m just tired and honestly there isn’t a single job that I can think of that sounds good. I do not dream of labor. So I’m pretty sure I’m just going to have to stick it out for 20 more years until I get my pension. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

    1. Meghan*

      Is it possible to switch age groups? My cousin works in special education and when he was working with middle schoolers, he hated it, it was very soul crushing. When he went to down to the elementary school, he liked it a lot more because he said he felt like he could make more of a difference.

      1. Zee*

        Another option I haven’t seen mentioned yet – switching to work with adults. I have a friend who is a certified special ed teacher, and after working with kids for a while, she found a job doing basic job skills training for young adults (ages 18-21, I think). The program is still through a school district (it’s tied in with their GED program), so she still gets the regular teacher benefits. But it’s a completely different universe.

    2. Colette*

      Why don’t you enjoy it? Is it working with the kids, teaching in general, administrative overhead?

      Can you change to another teaching position to change things up?

      Can you do that job half time while teaching something else half time?

      I wonder whether you’ve just been in the same position for too long, and changing things up would help.

      1. Colette*

        Also, if teaching is not what you want to do at all, think about what is most important to you (i.e. close to your home, 40 hours a week, summers off, your current salary) and what can be changed if you’re happier at work. Would you be willing to work 50 hours a week once a month if you were in a job you liked more? Could you take a pay cut for more interesting work? Can you adjust to working summers?

    3. Gouda*

      You could try to work in your state’s department of education? I don’t think the hours are exactly the same as school-school, but they might be more flexible than school-school.

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          The flexibility to take a sick day without having to prep materials for a substitute.

    4. FridayFeels*

      Do you have any interest in moving to admin? What about teaching at a college of education instead? You don’t necessarily need a PhD/EdD if you’re off the tenure track, like in a lecturer or professor of practice role.

      I guess you’d also want to consider your retirement, since I’m assuming you have a state pension?

      1. Esmeralda*

        You will not make $90K as a lecturer. Maybe as a professor of practice you would? Hours would be similar though.

        1. Anastasia*

          Academia is also SUPER competitive; even those with PhDs struggle to break in to the field. Without a PhD, it’s unlikely you’d get a position as anything other than adjunct/sessional, which means much less job security.

    5. Admin 4 life*

      Are there any aspects of the job that still bring you joy? Could you envision working with disabled children in another setting like as a therapist or as a program director for a company that provides therapy services?

    6. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Can you switch to mentor teaching for a bit — teach the teachers? I’ve known several teachers (although they were regular classroom teachers not special ed) that have taken a few years to mentor teach. It gives them a break from the classroom without totally disrupting their career. If your school district doesn’t have a program like that, maybe somewhere on the county or state level. Another possibility is to see if there is an adjunct position at a college/university that has an education program.

    7. T. Boone Pickens*

      I’ll be blunt here. No, no you won’t be able to find a job that pays you what you’re making right now with having summers off. You could go the self-employment route perhaps but I have zero idea on the type of service your background would allow you to pursue unless you were some type of consultant.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        I agree. That sounds like great pay in a profession that is frequently cited as low paying. And you’re not being asked to work more than 40 hours a week. And you get the summer off. And you have a short commute. And you like your boss and coworkers.

        My suggestion. Is there any way to really use your summer to refresh, relax, be slightly happier to go back in the fall?

        My job isn’t soul crushing; it’s fine. But I do it for the benefits and the pay. I’ve made that decision that I will do it until I afford to retire (earlier than many not as soon as I could feasibly retire because I am risk adverse person and want to have a bit more in the bank than the bare minimum).

        1. SpEd Teacher*

          I think this is exactly right. I’m going to stick it out. It’ll be ok, I’m just got the itch. I am VERY lucky to work where I do with a strong union and great pay. Just gotta keep going.

          1. CupcakeCounter*

            Also maybe look into taking a sabbatical. The past two school years have been a nightmare for a lot of teachers so take a look and see if there is a correlation between when the pandemic started and the job becoming soul crushing.

            Some other things to look into to help with the burnout:
            1. Do you work that job and then have to deal with cooking, cleaning, etc…? If so, look into getting some assistance with those things. Hire a twice monthly house cleaning service/person, get meal kits delivered to take the load off a bit. If you go the takeout route, rotate who does the restaurant selection and ordering (if you have multiple people in the household…my husband and son literally threw darts at a piece of paper with names of restaurants and meals on them before).

            2. Self care and therapy. Special Education is very difficult and takes a special person to be great at it and those individuals tend to be highly empathetic. Get a massage, facial, & mani/pedi, or just take a bubble bath with a glass of wine and a yummy candle. Get yourself that fancy coffee with ALL THE CALORIES once a week/month. And look into therapy – the soul crushing sounds like the population you work with maybe don’t have the most options for their futures and that is weighing on you. My friend is a special education teacher as well and works with very young children. She has told me that the hardest thing is knowing that some of these kids won’t graduate, will struggle more than any kid should have to deal with, be bullied, and in many cases get absorbed into a traditional classroom where they won’t get the support they need because of funding or their case not being “serious enough” so all of the progress they made will be lost. Therapy helped her a lot.

        2. Tess*

          It’s really not the norm to be a public school teacher and make that kind of salary, even with the raises that go with longevity.

          Same with “summers off”; often, teachers spend summer writing curricula for other grades they’ve been assigned to teach in fall, or work at least part-time during summer, since they can opt to collect their paychecks nine out of twelve months (or have their pay spread over twelve months).

          OP’s situation is quite unusual.

    8. A*

      Not sure if this would work in your area – but have you considered working directly with one family, being a special education home school teacher? I have a friend that made a similar switch, and ever since she secured her first gig she’s been working on a referral basis only and has been steadily employed from one family to the next (luckily those affluent enough to afford such things tend to know others in the same boat).

      Highly dependent on the socio economic statuses in your area, but if you’re in or near a high COL area it might be worth looking into! My friend secured her first job by starting out nannying on the weekends/over the summer to build her network contacts.

      Best of luck!

    9. not a doctor*

      Are you done with special education completely, or just classroom teaching? If you have any interest in sticking with SPED, you could look into doing Child Find evaluations. I was an evaluator at the end of my time in education, and I found it a lot easier and more enjoyable than full-time teaching.

    10. Ali G*

      My mom was a Special Ed teacher for many years and she switched to being a Guidance Counselor. The state we were in pays based on years and level of education so her pay didn’t change. I think the only thing that changed is she then had to work one week in August before the kids went back to school. She was much happier.

    11. So Very "Special"*

      Gonna offer a little bit of a different perspective here:

      I was a kid in special ed classes. I could tell when my SpEd teachers were burnt out and over it and stuck, because they got frustrated more easily. And a lot of the time, without meaning to, they took that frustration out on me and the other SpEd students.

      It’s one of the things I’m in therapy for, decades later- and I’m lucky enough to be able to self-advocate. Not all the kids in my SpEd classes were verbal. Some of them are probably just as screwed up as I am, without any way of getting help for it.

      If you stay in a position you hate for 20 years *and you’re working with a vulnerable population*? You have the potential to do some serious harm, not only to yourself, but *to your students*. And the longer you stay in a position you hate, the more likely it is that you will do that harm.

      1. Dino*

        My lens is similar. I worked in K-12 as a related service provider with students in SpEd/Life Skills and I definitely witnessed the way teacher burnout was taken out on students. It’s upsetting and awful.

        If you stay in this position, please do whatever you can to find some kind of enjoyment for the job itself. Manage your burnout and frustration off the clock so you can stay and not negatively impact your students.

      2. Generic Name*

        Yeah, as the parent of a kid who receives special education services, I hate the idea of one of his SpEd teachers who is at best just phoning it in for 20 years in order to collect a pension. Special needs kids are a difficult population to work with, and very vulnerable. What about moving to administration or training, as others have mentioned? Can you take a sabbatical?

      3. KoiFeeder*

        Fourthing. I never did special ed, but the person at my high school who was in charge of handling IEPs and other disability stuff was obviously disinterested in her job and it absolutely impacted the kids who needed her to be on top of things and not, say, signing off on making the kid who broke their leg do P.E. classes for the rest of the semester. Even removing when she took out her frustration on us (often), her complete apathy towards the rest of her job was damaging enough!

    12. Not So NewReader*

      A friend switched from teaching to working in the school library, she got an MLS to do it.

      Teachers in my area tell me that the burn out rate for SE is about five years. So you have done really well. According to them, it wasn’t the kids. It was all. the. regs.

      Anyway, my friend finished up her teaching career in the library and retired from the same school.

    13. Iris Eyes*

      It sounds like you might need a sabbatical or a gap year. If you were going to take a break for a school year what would your finances need? I’d work toward that personally. It doesn’t sound like you need a career change as much as a time to rest and refresh. Is there a grant or something you could apply for to do some further study? Don’t love the house you are in? Maybe sell the house and RV around the state and substitute teach enough to cover expenses. I think the pandemic has given a lot of us a persistent case of cabin fever.

    14. Anon this time*

      I used to work for a company that designed and manufactured educational products, and also provided related curriculum and training. We employed former teachers as product developers, product managers, professional development specialists, curriculum developers, tech support specialists, tech writers, sales reps.

      Some of the more senior among them made $90k+, but they worked long hours. The ones who worked 40 hours/week probably made closer to $70k. Our PTO policy wasn’t bad, but nowhere close to having summers off. Our retirement benefits were probably also less valuable than your teacher pension.

    15. Double A*

      90k! Where do you live?? I was making more like 62k with 10 years and a masters. And I’m making even less now that I’m teaching just English.

      Could you take a sabbatical? The last couple years have been brutal. Or explore if your district has TOSA roles (teacher on special assignment) that might work more with coaching teachers or something. Just something to mix it up and get a break from the classroom.

      1. SpEd Teacher*

        Connecticut! Our pay scale starts at $52k for first year just a bachelors. If you get your masters+60 and work for 30 years you’ll retire at around $153k.

    16. anna green*

      “So I’m pretty sure I’m just going to have to stick it out for 20 more years until I get my pension.”
      Oh this is one of the saddest things to hear. I worked at a govt job in college and most people thought this way. I actually decided right then I’d never do that because I didn’t want to start counting down to retirement in my 30’s.
      20 years!! that’s a long time to do something you hate. If you are just burnt out (it’s tough right now) that’s understandable. Take a vacation, etc. etc.
      But if you don’t want to do this for the rest of your life, dont! Don’t waste 20 years on the assumption you’ll get a pension that you’ll be health enough to enjoy.

    17. Zona the Great*

      I’d just like to suggest considering that summers off might not be such a big thing if you find a job that makes you really happy. I was a school teacher. There’s nothing that compares to the feeling of constantly counting down. Counting down the months til break, the weeks til break, the days, the hours….then summer comes and you switch to the dread-countdown. $90K is an ungodly amount for a teacher but you might be surprised at what else is out there. I left teaching and went back to grad school and now work as a program manager for a state agency. Sounds boring but I love my job the same on Monday as I do on Friday and I never think about summers off.

    18. WI to AZ*

      I’ve worked in special education for 20 years in 3 different states. In my current state, administrators don’t even make close to what you make in a year. If you are managing to keep within 40 hrs/week AND like your principal then you have the absolute dream job in your field. I’ve never managed below 50 hours a week in a full-time special education position.
      I would agree with the first time poster that switching age groups can help. I was K-5 most of my career but switched over to high school 5 years ago. It definitely helped especially since my own kids were starting elementary school. Now that my daughter is creeping toward adolescence, I foresee a switch back to K-5in the next few years.

      I have tried completely virtual work from home teaching positions but they either pay considerably less OR have 100 student caseloads.

      If you have licensing as a speech-therapist or school psychologist you would probably be able to do contract or consulting work and make a similar salary.

    19. Elephant*

      Hi! I’m also a teacher of 12 years, and I have had those times where I thought “is this really worth it?” So just a couple thoughts on that:
      1) there are MANY different kinds of jobs within the education world. Branch out of you want something fresh (does your district have Sped support people who work with multiple schools, like a sped curriculum specialist or administrator?). If you hate what you branch out to, you haven’t left the field, you haven’t lost benefits, and you can literally always go back to classroom teaching.
      2) keep your current job but change it up! Switch to a new grade or course (inclusion versus pull out support, for example). Add a responsibility or take one away (sponsor or stop sponsoring a club, coach or stop coaching a sport, etc.). One of the things I have come to love about education is how you really can make every year different, all while doing “the same” job.
      3) (this is the hard one) quit if you don’t enjoy kids. You don’t have to think teaching is your calling, it doesn’t have to be your favorite thing about your identity, and you don’t have to love your students every single day. But take some time to reflect on if you actually LIKE working with kids, because you should for your job. I teach about 100 students a year (high school). If I didn’t like them and I stuck it out for 20 years, that’s 2000 students I have had a negative impact on. For what? My pension? 2000 miserable kids is worth a pension? Hard no.

    20. AY*

      Did you feel this way pre-covid? I wonder if the unique awfulness of schooling in the covid era could be causing some of your unhappiness? If you could go back to your job as it was in 2019, would you still feel awful about it?

    21. J.B.*

      To be honest, this is risky but have you considered parent advocacy? The rules are so byzantine and the cooperation varies so much by school and per district that if you have been doing the coordination and paperwork you might have great insight.

    22. Sun in an Empty Room*

      Really explore your options with your current job. I encouraged a coworker to look into leave without pay and she was just granted 6 months starting in November. It’s not something normally put on the table but they even offered her part time work (something they turned her down for for years) when she was at a point something had to give or she would walk away from the job. Also, have you seriously looked in to early retirement options? I’m not saying for this year but to make a plan for the future that might cut down your retirement timeline? I know government jobs usually have set date for FULL benefits but you likely will get something if you’re beyond 3 or 5 years (Not sure about your state specifically, though). Don’t let these be golden handcuffs. I’ve started planning to retire about 8 years ahead of my full retirement age. Really cutting back on expenses and ramping up savings has helped me refocus in my mission-driven job despite the COVID pressure so many of us are feeling.

    23. Gnome*

      Have you looked into private schools? Depending on what the issues are, that might work better for the same reason it sometimes works better for kids (less paperwork, more of a school community, etc). I have a kid in a private school for SpEd, and… It is just amazing! I can say the parent support/appreciation is also far and away higher than I have seen elsewhere.

      Alternately, maybe a sub-specialization? I know some places have Autism specialists, 2e specialists, specialists in dyslexia/dysgraphia, behavior specialists, etc.

      1. Dino*

        Private schools don’t always have the same requirements to serve students with disabilities. Most of the protections and services afforded to disabled students are tied to federal funding, which isn’t a given for private schools. Some may accept disabled students but it’s a very different landscape than SpEd is normally.

        1. Tess*

          Yep; good call. Plus, private schools have smaller classrooms and don’t have to take in students they don’t want to – unlike public schools, who must take in everyone.

          There’s really no comparison between private and public. They just operate under very standards, though as a taxpayer, I resent private schools that take public money.

    24. Anony*

      Could you find another specialty area that you prefer within the school? I have a friend moved from classroom teaching to being a reading specialist and another who became an ELL specialist later in her career, and both have really felt that the change reengaged them with their work. They also got to work with small groups of kids (but you may already do that).

      I do want to second what someone else said though – I was a teacher with summers off and now work full time at a nonprofit with no summers off, but great flexibility and vacation time, and honestly I really value the flexibility across the whole year. I thought I would miss summers off more than I do. If you really consider a career change, look for employers with good vacation/benefit policies and you might find the summers off isn’t such a big tradeoff. The issue for you is more sacrificing your salary- but twenty years is a long time.

    25. StellaBella*

      Find hobbies for your summers off that enrich you. Then go back, each year is a 9month contract to get thru, then enjoy summer. You are in an enviable position, maximize the time off you have to enjoy olife then work the other time.

  11. California Dreamin’*

    I have a very good friend who is unhappy in her job, but doesn’t know what she wants to do. Mostly she is unhappy in her pay. She is very talented and should earn more, but is somewhat risk adverse and doesn’t know where to start in job hunting or if she should change careers altogether. I have recommended AAM as a great resource, but I would like to do more for her.
    Are there legit resume services that I can gift her? Or is there such a thing as a career coach to help her figure out what to do?

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      My local community college has a career center with lots of free help for all job seekers, not just the ones attending the school. It included some aptitude interest testing followed up by a conversation with one of their counselors.

    2. Haven’t picked a user name yet*

      Based on my experience there is not a lot of value in hiring a resume service. Advice in how to create an accomplishment driven resume on this site is great and should provide the guidance needed.

      It honestly sounds like your friend needs to commit to either looking for a new job, or making a case for a pay increase (or both!), but as a friend I don’t think there is much you can do other than be supportive and suggest the resources. But this is on her.

      1. California Dreamin’*

        Maybe part of my gift could be in helping her with her resume. She has made a case for a raise was told no. She works for a non-profit but isn’t passionate for the cause.

        1. Haven’t picked a user name yet*

          That sounds like a great idea! I have long coached others informally in my career and review resumes, but I also have someone who always reviews mine. I think there is so much value in having someone you trust take a look and make suggestions!

        2. Zee*

          Unfortunately the non-profit sector is pretty abusive and really relies on people’s commitment to the mission to accept substandard pay. Because of this, exit into the for-profit sector is pretty common. I can’t think of a group off the top of my head, but there are definitely communities out there for people who are trying to make that transition – maybe do some searching for one of those.

          The nice thing about coming from the np sector is that people usually have a diverse skill set (from orgs being understaffed) with a lot of good transferrable skills. I’d sit down with her and really comb through what her job duties are and which of them she likes, and then do some brainstorming and research into what other professions utilize those skills. She should be doing this herself already, but it’s useful to get another perspective to find things you’ve overlooked or minimized.

    3. PNW_HR*

      I’m working with a career coach right now and I am pretty happy with her advice and guidance. It was 6 phone sessions for $500,though, so not cheap.

    4. ferrina*

      A good career coach can help with this, but ultimately your friend will need to do a lot of the work. Career counselors are expensive (and you’ll need to look around to find one that meets her needs). It also won’t make a difference if she’s not willing to make the move for herself.

      If this were her writing in, I’d recommend identifying a couple areas she might be interested in and doing informational interviews (school alumni networks are a good place to start, and sometimes career counselors can put you in touch with people). Think about the lifestyle that she wants and where a job fits in to it. For many people, it’s less about the actual work than how the work is done (collaboratively vs independently, physical vs sedentary, hours, etc.). Then just start applying! It will take time, so thinking of it as a hobby can help. In the meantime, find actual hobbies and enjoyable things to keep you grounded.
      But again, this ultimately needs to come from her.

      1. California Dreamin’*

        Those are great thought starters!
        I know she is willing to do the work, I just thought a career coach could help point her in right direction.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Encourage her to think about things that she is good at doing. if she thinks about where she routinely gets compliments she might find some clues. Here’s my thought, if she picks something she is good at, she has a strong chance of always having work in that area.

      Just my opinion, but when a person makes a career jump one thing to look at is does the new employer understand that this is a new-to-her field. This matters because they will be more apt to put the time in orienting a new hire to the new arena. There are people out there who are really good about this- I can vouch for that.

      I have been scared to make the jump myself. And I have made a couple jumps. No regrets. Encourage her to picture herself on the other side of this whole question and being happy with how things land. I took the perspective that “anything has to be better than what I have now” and even that perspective helped me.

    6. MissDisplaced*

      I’m not sure a career coach would help that much if you don’t know what you want to do. I’ve always thought they’re more for helping you advance to the next level?
      Anyway, for a less expensive way, I have always suggested the book What Color is Your Parachute, which has exercises to help people find things they like doing and careers that match.

  12. Aarti*

    You guys I am literally sick over something my boss told me yesterday. When we had another employee leave not too long ago, willingly and happily (this is important), I realized I was now the most senior person at that level. I sent my boss a joking email saying something like “last person standing”! That was months ago. I meant it to just be a friendly sort of thing, not mean, just a shock that i, with only 4 years’ experience, was now the senior person.
    Yesterday she told me that that had come off as me mocking him and being cruel by celebrating his departure. I did not mean that at ALL. I of course apologized and explained how I meant for it to come off, but I feel so bad now. I am glad it only went to her and I did not publically do it, but now I can’t talk myself down that that’s how she sees me.
    I hate this feeling. I try to be a good employee and work hard and always be smiling. But this made me feel sooo bad.

    1. Rainy*

      Your boss is being unreasonable. I don’t think that seems mocking and cruel at all.

      My spouse just found out that the only senior person to them in their small company is job searching, and came home and said “I’m going to be the senior editor!” That was not mocking or cruelly celebrating either.

      Do your best to put it out of your mind. You’ve apologized and explained, now assume your boss is going to let it go, like a reasonable person would do.

    2. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      That’s a very bizarre and uncharitable interpretation of your comment!
      I wouldn’t think another thing about it.

    3. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      If you have a reputation as generally being a kind, friendly person, then this is not a big deal! Everyone puts their foot in their mouth every now and then. And, you’ve apologized.
      That said, it does seem that you inadvertently hit a sore spot for your boss. But all you can do going forward is to be a little more careful and thoughtful about what you say!
      Accept that you are human and that you messed up, but don’t beat yourself up! This is a small thing, and it gives you a little insight into what your boss is struggling with.

      And at the end of the day, your boss’s reaction says more about her than it does about you.

      1. Jay Gobbo*

        +100

        I say that about almost everything. “A person’s reaction says more about them than it does about you.” It’s so important to remember!!!

        Unfortunately sometimes you can’t change hearts ands minds. Maybe the boss was just in a certain mood that day; maybe that’s actually the way they think. Either way, I think that consistently showing that you are a kind and considerate person is more important than worrying about a one-off comment.

        (YMMV I still remember a dumb thoughtless thing I said in 6th grade and I’m in my late 30s now, so you know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can’t win ’em all)

    4. londonedit*

      Yeah that seems unreasonable and humourless. We’ve had loads of people leave recently (not because of anything bad with the company, just because of the whole ‘everyone’s changing their life after 2020’ thing) and there’s definitely been a ‘last ones standing!!’ sort of vibe among those of us who are left. I can’t really see how that comment could come across as mocking the person who left.

      1. Aarti*

        Thank you guys. I try so hard to be kind and understanding. I have had a history in my twenties of putting my foot in my mouth a lot but I am now in my forties and usually do much, much better. I specifically didn’t think it was mocking because he was so HAPPY about the new job he was getting, so it wasn’t like he was leaving under bad circumstances. And people leave! It’s ok that they leave! Ugh.

    5. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      The only other thing I can think of is that your boss felt it was a dig AT HER, like “Wow you suck, everyone else has left you and I’m the only one still on your team” and got her feelings hurt, but didn’t want to come out and say that, so used the former employee as the “injured party”?

    6. learnedthehardway*

      This is really on your manager – the rational thing to do would have been to assume it was a wry comment along the lines of “OMG I’m the only person left… flailing”, or “OMG now I have to do the work of everyone who has left”.

      I can’t imagine why your manager would have thought you were celebrating your colleague’s departure and being cruel, not unless you were in constant, acrimonious, OBVIOUS conflict with the person.

      You might want to circle back and make it clear that you were upset that she would think you would be unprofessional like that, and reiterate that it was a wry comment about being the last of the old guard, and not a comment on your former colleague.

        1. ten four*

          You might also consider job searching! I don’t like that your boss is making you feel this bad over a harmless joke. And also, perhaps there is a REASON you are the last person standing?

          I have been at my job for a similar amount of time as you, we have also seen a lot of turnover. I’m realizing that I have perhaps stayed too long. And the nice thing about job searching is that it’s about figuring out your options – if you don’t find anything you like better that’s a win: helps you feel good about your current role. And of course if you DO then off you go!

      2. The New Wanderer*

        Seconding that last paragraph, if you think your manager would listen. It is an obviously uncharitable interpretation of what you wrote and you definitely don’t want her to have that perception of you.

        FWIW I had a manager who was initially a strong supporter of my work and thought highly of me. Then she had a terrible meeting with other managers, some of whom made it painfully clear they didn’t think I was of much value (it’s a long story). After that meeting, she kinda took it out on me in our next 1:1 – I think she was defensive and reacting to this unexpected negative pushback of her original opinion of me. I was so upset I couldn’t even speak. I waited several days before bringing up the topic, laying out the whole long story, and basically showing her why I had earned her high opinion in the first place. Our relationship recovered and she went back to being a strong supporter. So my advice is, don’t let it fester!

    7. footiepjs*

      Do your best to not think about it. Your boss’s commentary coming months after the fact isn’t helpful at all and I don’t know what her motivation was for even bringing it up. Let your work and smiling attitude speak for itself and move on.

    8. Sandman*

      If you are normally able to joke around with your boss a little bit – which I’d assume, if you’ve been there four years and didn’t think twice about sending an email like this – it sounds like your boss might be a little bit sensitive about having enough people leave for you to be senior after just a few years and taking it more personally than is warranted. Humor can be so contextual that it’s hard to say, of course. But I would try not to spend a lot of time agonizing over it.

    9. Esmeralda*

      Your boss is a twit. Obviously a joke, and not a mean one either. If your boss has FEELINGS about all this, she needs to be a professional and keep them to herself. Unprofessional to make you feel bad about it.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Your boss has gotten a little hypersensitive or he just suddenly let go of surrounding context for some reason.

      It sounds like you apologized profusely. And it sounds like you have built up capital in the years you have been there.

      The only thing I think I would have added to the discussion with the boss is to say, “OMG, I am really upset that I came across that way. Hopefully, there will never be a next time, but if something I say/type ever sounds odd to you please, please address it asap. I am doubly upset that you carried this for months before we chatted. Please be sure to know that I do not want anything like this to happen again and please know that I want us to talk about it as soon as possible. I like my job, I like the people here and I do not want anything to get in the way of that.”

      For me, the fact that the boss let this go for months would be really unnerving and I would wonder what else the boss was dwelling on that is not addressed.

    11. RagingADHD*

      Well, you feel this way precisely because you are NOT a cruel person who is indifferent to others.

      It’s fine and appropriate to feel bad when you accidentally upset someone. That’s empathy. It’s a good thing.

      It was an accident. You meant one thing, and she took it another way. It happens. You did the right thing, which is to apologize sincerely and explain what you meant. That’s enough.

      I think it’s unlikely your boss sees you as a habitually cruel & mocking person, or she would not have told you how she felt at the time. Nobody makes themselves intentionally vulnerable to assholes.

      You just need some time. It’s a totally normal reaction to be mortified, and it will pass.

      1. Maxie's Mommy*

        And since you’re not a habitually unkind person, why wouldn’t your boss give you the benefit of the doubt??

  13. Batty Twerp*

    So I’ve managed to f- up at work. And I’m having trouble getting over it, for want of better phrasing.
    I’m owning my mistake, mostly – a spreadsheet submitted to payroll by my manager has a different figure that I don’t know where it came from and can’t justify, but it’s my spreadsheet that gets used so it’s me who gets the queries. And my spreadsheet did have a significant error initially, but it’s been corrected and *still* doesn’t match the payroll file. So now I don’t know if this second change is my error or not.
    The first error is problematic enough, but the second is just eroding trust in my department (direct quote from the stressed out manager who phoned me 10 minutes before logging off time to berate me for it) and right now I’m doubting my ability to keep doing the job I’ve been doing for 2 years in a company I’ve worked at for over 12.

    I don’t know how to make this better. I don’t think I can. My resilience is at an all time low. Anyone got any pick-me-up suggestions so I dont spend the weekend crying and stressing about this?

    1. Can't Sit Still*

      Just as an FYI, these are classic red flags for embezzlement. I mean, you may have made several unexpected mistakes or simply mis-keyed something, but something is fishy here. At the very least, your company’s controls are bad and need to be fixed. If it were a spreadsheet that you transmitted directly to payroll, that would be one thing. But your boss sends it on to payroll and there’s an error you don’t have in your original spreadsheet? That’s not great on your boss’ part.

      1. not a doctor*

        Agreed. Is it at all possible you could suggest to Payroll that you send them the sheet directly, CCing your boss, and she signs off on it in that thread? Phrase it as wanting to make absolutely sure you’re on the same page or that you want to minimize any chance of this disconnect.

        1. not a doctor*

          Also: people screw up! It happens! Sometimes in pretty major ways. And then they fix it, as you did, and most of the time life moves on. Yours will, too.

        2. Ali G*

          Maybe also lock it for editing? Or compare yours to the copy that payroll has?
          Batty, one thing I would suggest for you is to save a new copy of your spreadsheet and go through it and check all the formula’s or whatever you have going on in there. Sometimes when you have a lot of data and functionality, those things go bad. Especially if you are making multiple copies or if it’s linked to other data sources, etc.
          If it’s possible, I’d take the time to start fresh with a new spreadsheet so you know it’s not corrupted.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yep, yep, yep.

            As I read through I thought to myself someone is syphoning money some where.
            OP, I have had my own version (tamer than yours, however the general similarities are there) and it was indeed someone taking money.
            Ali G has great advice, put the time in to find out where the wheels fell off. Stand up for you. I know it’s easier to stand up for others. Pretend you are helping your favorite coworker save their butts and see what you can find.

            1. Big 4 Denizen*

              Yep! Performing a root cause analysis is important. Plus, if your boss starts to act shady about you doing this, then you know something’s up.

    2. Sleet Feet*

      This is tough. As someone who rarely makes mistakes, and I get the sense you are in the same boat, I can sometimes over react to them.

      My advice is:
      1 reframe the mistake. Imagine your friend/beloved aunt/significant other made this mistake. Would you think they are a screw up who should quit their job of 2 years? I’m guessing not.

      2 Troubleshoot the mistake. I know you said you have no idea where it came from but go through each step and compare. For example is the query pulling the same data now that it was when you pulled it? If you can’t tell what steps can you take to be able to troubleshoot that in the future (such as saving the data extracts somewhere etc.)
      3. Own the mistake and solution it. Your coworkers may be continually bringing it up because you haven’t found the problem source and haven’t offered any solutions. Even if you can’t find the mistake if you come up with ways to avoid probable causes of the mistake in the future that should help.

    3. Iris Eyes*

      Does everyone have the same version of Excel? I have had sheets where a formula did not calculate properly in one version but did in others. Excel is not entirely trustworthy and shouldn’t be used for as much as it is, there have been billion dollar mistakes made. (Perhaps a perusal of some of those would lift your spirits?) Also switching to a browser based Excel or Smartsheet that tracks changes could be a BIG help for seeing who and what changes may have caused the issue.

      When I have made big mistakes at work I found it helpful to journal the problem in red ink and outline the problem and what steps I could have done to fix it or identified that there was a problem even if I couldn’t identify what was causing the problem.

    4. Koala dreams*

      Sometimes people make silly mistakes that just are super weird. Tell yourself to put the mistake away for the weekend and then you’ll look at it with fresh eyes on Monday.

      Do you have any hobbies you can distract yourself with over the weekend? Knitting is a great distraction, or perhaps physical exercise. If you end up crying anyway, try some sad music and hot chocolate.

      If it’s any comfort, I’ve made a bunch of small mistakes today, and in the end I decided to put the work away and continue on Monday. Hopefully I’ll be more alert then. Fridays can be tough.

      1. Aarti*

        So I too would have a hard time not agonizing over it all weekend. I have that kind of personality. The only way I have found to truly deal with this is:
        – distract myself temporarily. Yes, it will not work all weekend, but i will fill as much time with games, exersice, movies, books, hobbies, whatever.
        – Exercise. Really wear yourself out because,
        – Expect to sleep less. When I am anxious I don’t sleep well so I go in with the expectation. But if I wear myself out with exercise I do tend to sleep a little better.
        – Talk to someone. I know sometimes it feels like GOD I AM SUCH AN IDIOT but I do find talking to someone helps, even if it is hard to spit out initially.

    5. Generic Name*

      Wait, why are you blaming yourself? The spreadsheet you sent to boss was correct, but the spreadsheet your boss sent to payroll had an error. Is your boss blaming you for the error? It sounds like your boss introduced the error, intentionally or otherwise. Something isn’t right here. I agree with the first comment that this is a red flag. I’d be curious how your boss reacts if you offer to track down the error so it won’t happen again.

    6. ByGolly*

      Spreadsheet errors can happen. Is there someone who can walk through the whole thing with you and make sure there are no more errors and you can move forward with confidence? I think your script should be “Look, I can see that there’s an error here, and I obviously wouldn’t have turned in work with an error if I knew about it. Can you help me figure out what happened so we can ensure it doesn’t happen again?” Ideally your manager would be the one doing this, since they are the one who submitted the thing. In the mean time: Job search? Netflix binge? My drug of choice is British Chick lit when I need to engage my brain and also relax.

    7. RagingADHD*

      I spend a lot of time dealing with random “how did this happen in my brain” errors (see my username), and most of the time I can catch them before things go out.

      When something does slip through the net, the thing that relieves my anxiety is to acknowledge that this mystery needs to be solved, and work out a way to solve it. The error itself needs to be diagnosed and solved, and the fault in my error-control system also needs to be diagnosed and solved.

      Usually putting those things on my “t0-do” list as valid work tasks that are worth spending time on allows me to compartmentalize my feelings about it and get the rest I need. (Sometimes I have to jump down the rabbit hole and hyperfocus on tracing the fault, but the to-do list usually lets me categorize them as things to think about on work time, rather than personal problems to think about in my personal time.)

      Perhaps you can contact someone in Payroll to help you review the problem cell and make sure the formulas match, whether there’s someone else with access to the sheet that you’re not aware of, etc. Screenshotting the sheet showing the correct info or sharing screens can also be helpful.

    8. Anonymous Hippo*

      Errors happen. There are controls you can put in place to help limit them, but as long as human beings are involved in the process, mistakes will occur. Stress increases the likelihood of further mistakes. The best you can do is heartily acknowledge the mistake, and provide a plan to decrease the likelihood of this happening again in the future. In any reasonable company, this would in no way be an indication that you can’t do your job, especially since it seems you can’t even point to an error on your part for the second problem. Heck, I made a 10M mistake on depreciation my first year with my company and now I run the department. Take a deep breath and try and ignore this until Monday, when you can create an plan to engineer out this error in the future.

    9. hamburke*

      I make a copy of the payroll spreadsheet on my own system before I send it off bc of something similar happening (updates were made after I pulled the data).

      To get thru it, make a plan for how it won’t happen again – perhaps you send a values-only (no formula) spreadsheet or a pdf copy for approval.

  14. Taura*

    Cover letter question – do I need to include my current city/that I’m willing to relocate explicitly in my cover letter? I have my current address on both my cover letter and resume, and use it in my contact info obviously, under the assumption that companies that are definitely looking for local candidates will see it in the first screen and toss out my application. But last week, I was called for an interview with a company across the state from me (I’m in Texas, if I get the job I’ll need to move, which is part of why I applied for this one) and they asked first for an in-person interview and then seemed really surprised when I told them where I was before changing it to a video interview. Going forward do I need to put something like “I’m planning to move to City, so that’s part of why I applied for this job” in my cover letter?

    1. House Tyrell*

      Also from Texas and moved cross country for a job earlier this year. Definitely mention it in your cover letter! It can just be a line but that helps them know that you know the job would require moving and that you want to move there. I used to live in the city I moved to and my (ex) partner had gotten a job here so in my last paragraph I said something like “I’m excited to move back to City in Month for my partner’s job…”

      It also helps with interview scheduling too so you don’t run into in person requests when you can’t get there that fast and reassures them that you are willing and able to make the move for the role. If you haven’t ever lived there before then you should be ready to talk about why you want to move there because many employers will be nervous that you’ll hate the new city and leave quickly.

    2. Scoffrio*

      I’m surprised they were surprised honestly, seems like they weren’t reviewing your materials very thoroughly. Perhaps that was just a one off?

      When I apply to out of state jobs I remove my address from my resume (though my current job has my city listed next to it) and tend to address it in my cover letter so that they don’t automatically weed out my application – I give a compelling reason (aka partner or family) or state that I’m already basically committed to moving to that city on X timeline (“I’ll be relocating there in March”).

    3. Anne of Green Gables*

      can’t speak to your filed, but I appreciate it when candidates who are out of state tell me why they are interested in my area. If they are planning to move to my area, that could make a difference between interview and not.

      If it’s a move that’s already in the works, I’d actually add that on your resume with your current city, kind of like this:
      Anne of Green Gables
      Avonlea, PEI (relocating to Charlottetown December 2021)

      1. Taura*

        Thanks for all the replies, I’ll add something about being willing to relocate in my cover letters in future. I’m basically applying to jobs in 3 cities atm: mine, sister 1’s, and sister 2’s, so while nothing is already in the works I also don’t have any qualms about living in any of those places.

        1. Winona*

          I’d add a line about being interested in relocation to be closer to family, if you’re applying for a place in a sister’s city. I think saying you’re open to relocating is good (since so many people want remote work now), but actually giving a reason is even more helpful.

          It’s a question that we often have, and will discuss internally, when interviewing people who don’t live in our area, and as soon as they say something about local family, that answers our question.

          Because just because someone applies for a job in a certain city and says they’re open to relocation, doesn’t always translate to them actually being willing to accept the job. Having an actual reason has seemed to make the hiring committees I’ve been on more confident that the candidate really is willnig to relocate.

        2. Zee*

          From my cover letter for my recent round of job applications:

          “I am currently in [State], but finding the right position and organization is my priority and I am open to relocating anywhere within the US.”

          *Technically not true, since there are some places I’m not interested in living, but obviously I just didn’t apply to jobs in those areas.

          I got plenty of interviews around the country, and got a job offer last week in a state I’ve never been to before and where I have zero connections.

          That said, I was in the same situation in 2014, and nobody would interview me if I wasn’t already in the area or had a specific moving date to go to that specific city (which I didn’t have, because I was planning on moving wherever I got a job). You may run into a little of that, since you don’t have a moving date and aren’t committed to a single city, but you could say something like “I’m in [place] and am looking to relocate to [other place] this year” and just not mention that there are 2 other cities you’re looking in as well.

          But definitely don’t just leave it out of your application, because they might assume you read the listing wrong or don’t know how to use google maps.

    4. A*

      When I was in a similar situation I kept all my contact info as my current residence (not local to the employer), but called out in the second line of the cover letter that I was looking to relocate to that area. I also referenced the fact that I have social connections in the area because some employers like to see that relocations are not 100% due to the job (for reasons I’ve never understood). I also included a line in the last paragraph about how I was excited for the opportunity to join their team, and to settle into XYZ area.

      It’s strange that they were surprised as they should have taken note of your address, but if you didn’t mention it in the cover letter it’s entirely possible they thought that your mailing address was different – or you relocated temporarily during the shut down etc.

    5. T J Juckson*

      I had a line at the very end of my cover letter something like, “I am relocating to New York and will be available for in-person interviews after X.” This was pre-pandemic, for a very competitive job, which I got. I remember being in an interview and seeing one person had circled my midwestern address (but I was sitting there in NYC), so clearly it was something that had concerned at least one person.

    6. Sleet Feet*

      What I do is on the resume for location I put “relocating to City of Job December 2021” instead of where I currently live.

      I was successfully moved by the company across country using this tactic. I recall mentioning a few reasons why I was relocating in the cover letter – just a sentence or two – but the rest focused on the job. Then on interviews I was clear that my goal was to move December 2021 but that’s only of I can secure a job.

  15. Feeling Conflicted*

    So how about this one:

    I work with someone I know socially, more than acquaintances but not best friends. They have been involved in a project with me, I am senior to them but less experienced. They have been derogatory to me about my ability and appearance both inside and outside of work which has been upsetting, but in terms of their role do a good job. They have now listed me for feedback on their performance review. The feedback must include comments on professionalism, supporting team members and working collaboratively to include everyone. I have no idea what to write…..none whatsoever

    1. Rainy*

      Oh man. Your acquaintance is relying on you being Cool About Their Shitty Behaviour and giving them glowing feedback, and I think that was a tactical error on their part.

      I think in your place I’d probably say that their work is good in these specific ways, but that you see some room for improvement in professionalism, teamwork, and collaboration, and give a couple of constructive suggestions for improvement.

      You could also reach out to them privately and ask if they meant to include you on the list for feedback, since you know them socially, and perhaps it would be inappropriate for you to contribute to a performance review.

      1. Feeling Conflicted*

        I was included deliberately, it would be unusual/impossible not to with our roles. I gave feedback last review season which was positive-I had no reason not to be positive at the time.

        1. Rainy*

          Interesting. Yeah, I think I’d go ahead and be honest, especially since the reviews are explicitly also about collaboration, collegiality, and professionalism. If nothing else, you might be providing a wakeup call that helps them turn things around before their attitude affects their career.

    2. Colette*

      I’d be honest with specific examples. It’s feedback they need, and it would be doing them a disservice to hold back.

    3. James*

      Note that while they’re good at their role they need to work on interpersonal skills, don’t support team members, and have real problems working with other people. This isn’t a small thing. This person is actively undermining you, and making fairly inappropriate comments (how you dress isn’t correlated to your ability to do the work in many fields, especially outside of work!!).

      I’ve found this can be a problem with people with more experience but a lower position, and you need to nip it in the bud. They’re testing boundaries and trying to see what they can get away with. I’ve had to toss people off projects for this before. If you let them get away with this you are training them that this is an appropriate way to act, and they will keep doing it–to you, and to others.

      1. Feeling Conflicted*

        Just to clarify appearance comments were focussed on physical features rather than dress. I would not be anywhere near upset about outfits, this was very personal.

        You are right about doing it to others and this isn’t an angle I had considered. Thank you

    4. 867-5309*

      Leverage your organization’s values and use that language, whatever it might be.

      So for example, “Person’s work product is excellent but there are times when how the work is getting done is harmful. They will often make derogatory comments about other team member’s abilities or appearance that are not grounded in something that affects the project or their ability to do their work.”

      Also, have you said anything directly? When they comment on your appearance – “Wow. That is hurtful.” When they comment about ability, “I welcome constructive feedback but this is beginning to feel unproductive. Is there something specific that you would like to see me do differently or have I done something that is affecting a work outcome?”

      It sounds more like a frenimy relationship… Sure, they are social and kind of a friend but undermining you at the same time. You might need to institute boundaries around the social part of your relationship.

      1. Rainy*

        Yeah, very frenemy-esque. I find that when you realize that’s the way things are trending with someone, it’s best to take a big step back personally or cut the connection entirely.

      2. Feeling Conflicted*

        I love your wording for the review, thank you. It says what I have been trying to with a very professional tone.

        I haven’t yet said anything directly to anything hurtful, I have elected to ignore and move on as appropriate within the specific situation. They can be confrontational so I had been deliberately not engaging rather than get dragged into a discussion of what’s appropriate vs not, but I will keep those phrases up my sleeve. I have offered 121s to draw on their knowledge and ensure my lack of experience is not inhibiting them but these offers have been rejected each time. To be clear it’s my experience lacking not my ability, I am a high performer and have had exemplary reviews.

        To note-I fully agree and I will/have removed the person from my social circle. This isn’t a friendship I am interested in preserving beyond a friendly hello, but this makes me mindful I don’t want review comments to be dismissed as “p****d off friend”

    5. You get a pen and you get a pen*

      Keep the review focused on how this person completes their job and role. As you stated, this person is good at what they should be doing so that should be the focus. The derogatory comments, as hurtful as they are, should not be mentioned.

      1. not a doctor*

        Hard disagree. This person made these comments AT WORK — that makes them unimpeachably fair game for criticism. Keep it professional but feel free to be honest, OP.

      2. Rainy*

        The commenter specifically says that the review includes feedback on the person’s professionalism, support of teammates, and collaboration.

      3. James*

        Along with what everyone else said, the derogatory comments are likely an attempt to undermine Feeling Conflicted’s authority. That very much IS a work-related issue.

        1. Feeling Conflicted*

          Undermining authority was my grand bosses take also, combined with resentment for seniority vs experience.

          To be clear if this was 100% outside of work and was not specifically in reference to the work I would not even be considering bringing it into the review. I do not plan to incorporate anything not work related.

      4. Anonymous Hippo*

        I disagree as well. How you work with others is (or should be) an important factor in overall job performance. Jerks aren’t okay because they have excellent output.

    6. Sandman*

      It sounds like you might be hesitant to point out their derogatory behavior because you know them socially, and I’d encourage you to leave that out of it if you can manage it. No-one deserves to be treated poorly and this behavior is something that should be addressed. Part of the job is being decent to the people around you. I haven’t always gotten this right and am grateful for people who cared enough to address it – I had things to work out and wasn’t doing myself any favors, either.

    7. Jean*

      You have been handed the kind of opportunity that someone like me fantasizes about having. Take it and run with it – within reason, of course. Be honest and frame it in terms of work, but don’t hold back. This person literally set themselves up for this.

      1. Morning coffee*

        The universe has provided you the perfect opportunity to help this person improve her skills. Take it. :)

    8. PollyQ*

      Tell the truth of your experience, including how they treated you as a co-worker, and ignore the fact that you knew the person socially first. If they were really your friend (or even just professional), they wouldn’t have treated you badly.

  16. Anne of Green Gables*

    I’m a plus-size female looking for recommendations of great work pants and shirts. My place is business casual, and I tend to lean to the slightly more business, less casual end. (If it helps, I’m size 18 ish US and chesty–40 I chesty.)

    Bonus points for comfy but professional looking pants. Now that I can’t work from home, I really miss my sweatpants!

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      I love Torrid’s ponte pants – stretchy and comfy, but very professional looking. My fall/winter work uniform is their ponte pants and a Harper blouse.

    3. Rey*

      Love the screen name! If you use Instagram, I recommend Mia O’Malley! She is an awesome plus-size follow, and she frequently crowdsources recommendations from her followers for plus-size folks. She has a Stories Highlights titled WORKWEAR that has tons of store and brand recommendations, including specific links. Personally, I have tried Maurices, Torrid, and Eloquii for pants (I’m a size 18-20).

    4. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Corporette-dot-com has a dedicated page for plus size suggestions, and the daily posts often include options.

    5. Been There Done That*

      Lane Bryant, Macys Plus Size department, and believe it or not Talbots has some really good sales every now and then. And I use the online shopping option for all of them.

      1. Blinded By the Gaslight*

        Yes, I have some great pieces from the Talbot’s Women’s Petite line. Not every season is a winner from them, but sometimes they really have some beautiful, classic items. They’re more expensive than Lane Bryant or Torrid, but my Talbot items have lasted me literally years whereas my Lane Bryant/Torrid items are usually worn out or dated in a year or two.

    7. Chereche*

      I buy my work pants from Avenue . com. I wear sizes 16/18 depending on the stretch. My one caveat is that if you are 5ft6 or above order pants in tall. I tried an average length pants from them from a coworker and it looked like I was preparing to wade through flood water.

    8. knitcrazybooknut*

      Universal Standard is my favorite clothing line. They have options for sizes 00-40, and the fit is brilliant for all of them. They have suits, jackets, skirts, pants, and run all of the way down the casual scale into athletic wear and pajamas. Everything they make is really comfortable.

      1. Jay*

        I LOVE them. My absolute favorite pair of pants is a muted plaid wide-leg trouser of theirs. Love love love. Last year I splurged on a pajama set and robe and OMG. So pretty and comfy.

        1. knitcrazybooknut*

          Did you get the pajama set sale? I got a robe and pajamas and nightgown for cheap! I’m honestly wearing the pajamas right now for remote work — the top is super classy.

      2. Can't Sit Still*

        Lots of their stuff is machine washable, too, which is nice in workwear. Most of their dresses have pockets, too.

    9. Countess of Upstairs Downstairs*

      I love Lands’ End Starfish Mid-Rise Pants – They’re pull-on elastic waist pants, with a ponte type material. I feel like they’re stretchy and soft like sweatpants but can be easily dressed up for the office.

      1. Jaded Millenial*

        I add a second vote for Land’s End. I gotten mostly shirts from them, but I’d like to try more of their pants, though my hips seem to put me one size larger in their pants than at other retailers.

        Target is also carrying super cute plus size clothing right now, though the most variety is online, but returns in-store have been very easy.

    10. Jay*

      J Jill has great work clothes and they go up to 20 or 22 online. It totally sucks that they won’t stock above a 12 in the store and you may not want to support them for that reason…but the pants are great and they have good sales.

      Same applies for Chicos. They have their own sizing which can be hard to suss out if you can’t try things on. You can drop off returns for free at the store even if they don’t stock the size. I love their ankle pants – they’re not particularly tapered, they’re SO comfy, and and they have pockets!!

      Online only and expensive: Universal Standard. GORGEOUS stuff, well-made, high-quality fabrics, and size-inclusive with models that show you how the clothes will actually fit.

    11. Jean*

      How attached are you to a pants-and-shirt look? LOFT Plus and ASOS Curve are both good online options with a ton of cute, but maybe a little more offbeat/still office appropriate type of looks (dresses, dressier jumpsuits, pretty blouses, etc)

    13. Blinded By the Gaslight*

      I am currently wearing a pair of black work trousers I got from Universal Standard that fit beautifully on my short tree-trunk legs and wide hips. I have worn these at least a dozen times, and there is no pilling in the thigh/crotch area. The material really nice–jet black, just enough stretch, soft on the skin. And they have pockets!

      I also have another pair of black trousers from Eloquii – fabric doesn’t feel quite as lush as my US pair, but they also have a great, comfortable fit, pockets, no pilling, etc.

      Also from Universal Standard, the Next to Naked bodysuit is a wardrobe staple, perfect for under dresses or tunics. For leggings, I also love SheFit, which carries an amazing size range for large folks, and the material is great – sturdy, comfortable, no pilling, and generous pockets!

    14. Haha Lala*

      I’m about the same size in pants, and I love Lee’s Flex motion pants and jeans. They sell them at Kohls, and usually have lots of options of colors/washes and fits. They have just the right amount of stretch– enough to be comfy, but not too much that I feel like I’m in yoga pants or underdressed.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I love Lee; they actually fit me.
        Walmart used to carry Riders, which were made by Lee and cost less, but OF COURSE they don’t have them anymore. >:(

    16. SomethingClever*

      If it hasn’t been mentioned, my go-to for business casual is Old Navy. I am larger than you but have found their plus-size selection to be true to size. Their khaki style pants were a life saver when my daily uniform included black pants and all I could find were man pants and skinny jeans.

    18. Sunshine*

      Not helpful but my kids pants have internal belts in the waist band. It’s elastic and you pull it and button to better the fit. I want this feature in all my pants.

    19. Cube Farmer*

      I have actually had amazing luck with Stitch Fix! I hate clothes shopping and was matched with a great stylist.

    20. braindump*

      Are your hips big too? Also petite?

      My hips might as well be a man’s (all my bulk is in front and I can usually get by wearing men’s pants) and I’ve found Kohl’s to be great with plus size petite pants that fit.

      Not so much with the tops – I’m only a B cup but holy boob gap and arm weirdness on everything, batman.

      1. Anne of Green Gables*

        I really think that most of the people who designs women’s tops must not have boobs! I don’t understand it!

        1. Blinded By the Gaslight*

          TRUTH!! This is where even my favorite plus-size retailers fail me – chest, shoulder, arms; but if I size up for those areas, the rest of the fit is off. Being super short and short-waisted doesn’t help either.

          I’m finally accepting that some things I just need to order a size up and then have tailored so I don’t look like I’m wearing daddy’s suit. Le sigh . . .

    21. Lizard*

      Another +1 for Talbot’s and J. Jill. I’ve also had good luck with the pants at Betabrand.com.

    22. Pam Adams*

      I got nice black stretchy pants from Catherine’s. I tend to wear polos as tops- I work with students, but they look nicely dressy with a camisole and blazer.

    23. Dragonfly7*

      Hello from the more casual, less business end! I wear about the same size and am liking Lane Bryant for dresses, trousers, and dressier jeans mixed with Maurice’s for regular jeans and blouses. Surprisingly, my favorite open-front cardigans right now are from Wal-Mart.
      Thanks for asking this question! I’m making notes for myself as well.

    24. Seeking Second Childhood*

      My pandemic surprise-favorite cheap jeans just redesigned slightly and the fabric is now lighter. More office than barn. Gloria Vanderbilt Amanda 2.0.
      Pre-caffeination ramble: When I was a kid shooting up like a weed, Gloria Vanderbilt jeans were hot&trendy, and so expensive my mom refused to buy them. So it amused me to find them at BJ’s (a membership shopping club) when I was only looking to replace WFH jeans I’d just ripped doing yardwork. And they were a good enough fit I later bought shorts and the 2.0 version.

    25. Hamburke*

      My boss turned me on the Rekucci brand dress slacks. The ones I buy have a bit of shapewear built in but they are probably the most comfortable pants I own aside from lounge pants. I buy them on Amazon – they have a shop. I bought 2 sizes the first time but they fit pretty true to size.

      I struggle with shirts being a chesty girl as well. I have a handful that I like and when I find one that I like, I buy a bunch of them at the same time. I was just talking with my Catholic school friends about how I still pretty much wear a uniform – a handful of identical pants and a pile of identical except color shirts – b/c I never figured out fashion being in a plaid kilt and oxfordcloth shirt for 12 years.

  17. Pranks that have lost their appeal*

    A hand-sized novelty (plastic) cockroach has been making the rounds in my office for a while (weeks). When light hits it, the thing makes a horror-movie scream. It’s loud and annoying. Well, people have been hiding it, trying to “get” other people and scare the crap out of them. If I had to guess, I would say easily 50% of people flat-out hate the thing and want it gone. The others think it’s hilarious and roar with laughter any time they hear it go off or hear about someone falling for it. I was mildly amused by it at first (pranks are not really my thing to begin with but I also try to go with the flow on stuff like this if it’s harmless) but I assumed the novelty would wear off and it would be forgotten about by now. FWIW, a couple of the people have been genuinely frightened by it; we’re in an office of 40~ people of all ages; and we don’t have a tradition of pulling pranks around here. Am I ruining the fun if I throw the stupid thing away the next time I find it?

    1. House Tyrell*

      Nah throw it away that’s so disruptive and annoying in the office. No one even has to know it was you who threw it away probably.

    2. Elenna*

      Maybe “hide” it somewhere like your desk drawer under a pile of papers, where nobody but you will find it and it won’t be hit by light? That way, if people seem really upset that it’s gone, you can always consider “finding” it again and maybe figuring out some sort of compromise. But I strongly suspect that if it doesn’t get found for a while, people will initially assume “must be a very good hiding spot” and then just forget about it.

      1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        I agree. Next time you find it, hide it someplace really really out of the way — is there a basement? If anyone asks, you can honestly say it’s hidden, they just have to get better at finding it.

    3. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      This is NOT fun for “easily 50%” of your coworkers. Make it disappear.

      Where’s your boss in this? At the very least, the boss should realize this is pretty disruptive.

    4. Lady_Lessa*

      I’d hide it under some papers or gross stuff that will be picked up and discarded the same day.

    6. Sharpieees*

      Seems like if it disappears there’s a good chance that someone will create a fuss looking for it, or will just replace it with something comparable. Just don’t give the pranksters the reaction they are looking for. If you find it, give a very subtle sigh and eyeroll and just put it down and ignore it – a combination of mild annoyance and overall disinterest. Hopefully the others who hate it will follow suit. Eventually they’ll get the hint that the “joke” has outlived it’s sell by date.

    8. Mental Lentil*

      I’d stomp on it, thinking it was a real cockroach, then pick it up and throw it in the trash. End of problem until the immature person on the other end of this comes up with something else.

    10. Pocket Mouse*

      I say toss it. At the very least, remove the batteries or disconnect the sound mechanism. If you can’t, definitely toss.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        There’s almost certainly an infographic on how to break the sound mechanism without wrecking the toy in any other way, probably on a parenting facebook post.

        1. Former Young Lady*

          My first thought was immersing it in water.

          NOT in a toilet where someone might be startled by it, of course. Though there would be a certain poetry to that approach.

    11. Mockingjay*

      Alison answered a similar letter years ago. Toss the damn thing.

      “Gee, I hid it but now I can’t remember where.”
      *Cue colleagues searching for months.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      I’d have no problem throwing that out. I go to work, to, uh, you know, WORK.

      Reality is that half of your cohorts will hate you if they find out and the other half will put up a plaque in your honor. This is how these stories go. Be discreet and ditch it in the garbage. Use an outside container if possible so that people do not hear it go off and rescue it from the can.

    13. Jean*

      This reminds me of that old AAM letter about the people who kept making sex noises whenever the OP was on the phone. Like I can see once or twice being funny, but eventually stuff like this stops being funny, and if you’re one of the people it doesn’t get old for, well…. That doesn’t say anything positive about your intellect or sense of humor. Throw it out. Anyone whose fun is “ruined” by that needs to grow up.

    14. MissCoco*

      You are absolutely not ruining the fun, but I would probably take the secret of the disappearing cockroach to my grave (or at least to whenever I leave that workplace), just to avoid the vocal cockroach enthusiasts being annoyed about it’s loss at me

    15. Former Young Lady*

      I feel for you. I worked in an office where half the staff thought noisy freak-out toys were HiLaRiOuS!!!1! and, like most invasive preferences, it annoyed the crap out of the politer half — who didn’t feel like we could say anything, because we were clearly surrounded by toddlers.

      I think disposing of it is the mature, professional thing to do, but if you’re feeling petty, you’d have my support in posting anonymous signs with its likeness, demanding a sizeable ransom for its return.

    16. SlimeKnight*

      When I was much younger and more immature I worked in a big retail store. Snakes would get in the rafters (to eat the birds), especially in the summer. One time a coworker and I bought a bunch of rubber snakes, waited for another worker to walk through the aisle next to us, then tossed them over the aisle to land on her hand. She nearly died.

      At the time I thought it was hilarious, but not I realize we were just being mean.

    17. Big 4 Denizen*

      I actually have a slight allergy to cockroaches (the chemicals they secrete make me go all stuffy-nosed), so I would scream and stomp on it to kill the chip and throw it away.

    19. RagingADHD*

      No. Someone should either smash it or throw it out.

      If someone leaves you a “gift,” then it’s yours to do with as you like. Fundamental etiquette rule.

      1. RagingADHD*

        Another etiquette rule that’s relevant is that you don’t have to attend every party or play every game that you’re invited to.

    20. Elizabeth West*

      This would be fun if it weren’t loud.

      I used to work in a lab where we would hide a six-foot cutout of Frankenstein’s monster around the office to scare each other, and also a giant plastic rat we would put in each other’s desks or on people’s lunchbox in the fridge (I still have the rat). It was all in fun and no one got hurt, although our metallurgy guy did get a little ticked when we put the Frankenstein in his darkroom and nearly made him wet his pants. But neither of these objects made any noise.

      A hand-sized bug is obviously not real, so little to no perceived threat, but loud screaming is seriously disruptive when people are trying to work. I’m on Team Hide-It-And-Forget-Where-You-Put-It. Or at least sabotage it so it can’t scream anymore.

    21. Caboose*

      My completely not realistic idea would be to take it, snap a few pictures of it on top of a piece of green paper, and then toss it. If someone starts asking where it went, edit the photo so the cockroach is in front of some world landmark, print it out, and leave it somewhere with a typed note about how much fun he’s having traveling.

    23. Chaordic One*

      Yes, you’re ruining the fun for a handful, but also making things better for a few more people, so feel free to toss it. I can’t really recall ever being in this exact position, but through the years, nearly everywhere I worked, a lot of things that were worn out and didn’t work “accidentally” fell in the trash or disappeared. The dribble pitcher from the espresso machine, the 2-holed punch that allegedly was supposed to make 3 holes, the pencil sharpener that didn’t…

  18. Don't want Covid for Christmas*

    My partner is relatively new at his job. Most employees including him are 100% remote, but they’re having an in-person indoor holiday party this year at a restaurant. Leaving aside the fact that we’re not yet comfortable eating indoors under any circumstances since that means removing masks, his supervisor is vocally anti-vax and engages in a lot of very covid-risky behaviors. So he doesn’t want to attend.

    How can he decline this party without stepping in it politically? It seems like a bad idea to give the real reason. Should he just decline and say he has a schedule conflict? Accept and then OH DARN come down with an explosive GI condition the day of the party so he has to cancel?

    It’s unclear whether this is a company where skipping the holiday party is no big deal, or a thing that Is Simply Not done. It’s a small enough company that his absence would be noticeable.

    1. Taura*

      I would say the schedule conflict is the best bet – accepting and then not showing, even with an excuse, is probably going to get him way more questions than “I’m so sorry, we made plans with my parents that evening” or something like that. I don’t really see a way for you to judge whether it’s a huge deal or not beforehand unfortunately, I think you’ll have to plan to deal with the fallout of it being a huge deal, and then be pleasantly surprised if it’s not.

    2. learnedthehardway*

      Can he say that he is not going to attend because he has relatives who are immune-compromised, and that he has to use extreme caution. A parent or grandparent would do nicely for this – it would be pretty crappy of his boss to insist he go to an in-person event if it means he can’t see his elderly mother for Christmas.

      1. Sandman*

        Somebody who is vocally opposed to the vaccination has a whole worldview around it and won’t consider this a valid reason (based on the anti-vaxxers I have to interact with on a regular basis). I think anything that references COVID is going to be politically risky.

      2. Ashley*

        If they weren’t an anti-vaxxer I would say this might be fine, but this can even lead to more discussion then you want with some groups. I use this phrasing on more middle of the road COVID people. Hardcore I don’t even let is be a discussion point.
        A schedule conflict can be super helpful. (Use sickness if there is major pressure to attend or change your plans.)

    3. ferrina*

      Both the schedule conflict and the explosive GI are reliable routes, so I’d go with what feels best to your partner. Usually I’d recommend the schedule conflict, but if that feels politically dangerous, the GI route is fine.

      I’d also recommend that your partner reach out to a work friend that is not his supervisor and ask about the party- what is it, who gets really in to it, etc. That will give him a better sense of the politics at play.

    4. Big 4 Denizen*

      Prior engagement that you agreed to months ago (e.g., before they started at the company). If anyone is super-nosy, they can say they’re disappointed to not attend but they can get the highlights on Monday/next business day.

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      I would accept and then be “sick” unexpectedly. But he could be feeling slightly unwell the day before…

    6. LKW*

      Scheduling conflict and if need be, you can be the person who takes the hit to save your partner.
      “Oh, I forgot to mention, I checked withy my partner and we’ve committed to something else that day/evening. Maybe next year calendars will align better.”

      And “We committed to this even before I started working here, maybe next year!”

    7. RagingADHD*

      Thanks, but the holidays are crazy! Everyone wants to get together…sorry I can’t make it!

  19. L. Ron Jeremy*

    I was on disability for 6 months prior to quitting my final job and plan to start my social security claim for retirement benefits soon.

    Is my last day of work my final day on disability or 6 months prior? I know they will ask and I’m unsure what is the correct answer.

    Thanks

    2. not a doctor*

      I had to quit a previous job after exhausting both STD and LTD and on my resume I list the day we officially parted ways — BUT since this is for the feds, I agree with “call and check.”

    3. Monty & Millie's Mom*

      Definitely call to clarify. I work for my state unemployment and when we ask for last day of work, we mean “last day you actually did work for the company”, even if your separation date was different. But also, government’s not consistent (shocker!), so it’s going to be worth it to check.

    4. Cj*

      If you are at retirement age and filing for retirement benefits with Social Security, and not disability benefits, I’m not sure it’s that important. You are eligible for retirement benefits at your specified age whether you last worked a month ago or 30 years ago.

      The only reason I can think of that it might matter is if they are wondering if you will have social security paid in for you for the current year that would affect your benefits.

  20. Elenna*

    Super low-stakes question: how do y’all indicate agreement or acknowledgement in long text conversations? (e.g. skype or webex messaging.) There’s only so many times I can repeat “yeah” “ok” “I agree” before feeling like a broken record.
    Also, if my boss is giving me a long set of instructions, often I don’t have any comment beyond “ok” or “sure”, but if I keep just responding with “ok” I worry that it looks like I’m just nodding along and not paying attention. Probably I’m overthinking this.

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Is there a reason you need to keep punctuating the instructions as they’re being given? Can your boss give you the full instructions or message, and then you reply to the full thing? If it’s an ongoing conversation, do you need to say ok? Can you like the message instead, or just chime in sparingly? I also find it helps to switch up the way I say sure. “I’ll get right on that”, “No questions at this time, but I’ll let you know”, “Sounds like a plan”, etc.

    2. Coenobita*

      Does your platform allow for a thumbs-up or similar reaction? We use Teams and I lean on the thumbs-up feature in cases like that.

    5. fueled by coffee*

      This sounds like overthinking, but if there’s a long list of instructions, I’d wait until the end before responding with one overall “Okay, will do!” (or whatever). For smaller scale things or individual items that require acknowledgement from you, you can probably intersperse some “That makes sense.” “Sounds like a plan.” “Got it.” to vary up the language a little. Otherwise, restating the instructions back to them (“check the accounts for Project X, write report Y, and call client Z – got it!”

    6. Daffodilly*

      Sometimes I ask clarifying questions even if not needed. Or summarize at the end.
      But yes, probably overthinking it.

    7. James*

      I had a boss ask me about this once. He’d send me texts that were quite obviously orders–“Do X, Y, and Z”. I’d send him a text when I was done. He called once and asked if that’s what I was doing, because he wasn’t clear. Once we got on the same page, everything was smooth.

      As an aside, I DETEST this as a way of giving out instructions. Unless it’s someone I’m VERY comfortable with, and a relationship that’s firmly established, I won’t do it. Email is better. It forces you to think about what you’re asking people to do, and provide some structure to the instructions. Text are stream-of-consciousness, which is the opposite of what you want when giving instructions.

      One thing I’ve found helps: Send an email summarizing the conversation. “Per our discussion, I will be focusing on the teacup painting project moving forward, specifically ordering supplies and scheduling staff. Is there anything else I need to add to this list?” This does a few things. First, it shows you were listening and got everything. Second, it gives both you and the boss a chance to correct any errors in how the two of you view the project. Third, it gives you a written record you can check to make sure you’re doing what you said you’d do. And if you’re not comfortable sending something in email, it’s probably your brain telling you that something’s not quite right–it’s a good gut-check of what’s going on.

      1. Happy Lurker*

        +1 James for following up via email. My first reaction to your situation was that I would HATE for my boss to send me directions via text. The details get lost in the shuffle of all the texts!
        I would direct boss back to email at every interaction, if possible.
        Also, there is a really good chance I would start responding Yas Queen and put myself in a bad situation. That is how much I dislike text for work. Good luck!

    8. Anonymous Pygmy Possum*

      “Sounds good” and “Alright” are my main go-tos and are basically the same thing as “Okay” and “Sure”. “Got it” is also good.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      You are over thinking it. In the example of lengthy instructions all you are doing is following along, so saying OK, Sure, Will do, etc is perfectly fine. All you need to do is let the boss know you hear and understand.

    10. MissCoco*

      Thumbs up/check mark/smiley face emoji if that feature’s available, so they know I’ve seen it, especially if it’s a pretty basic task.

      If there’s anything unclear, I will send a quick clarifying text, or summarize what I’m going to do

      Otherwise I cycle through: “sounds good,” “will do,” “I’ll let you know when I’m done/if any issues come up/give you an update on x date”

    11. EmKay*

      “I’m on it”
      “okey dokey” (not for everyone, I realise)
      “sure thing”
      “I’ve added this to my to-do list”

    13. Purple Penguin*

      I’d wait longer before replying – quick response to the first one to acknowledge is fine (hey, can you help with the X account? “Sure, I’m free”) but then let it sit for a little while. (great I need you to do thing.) In computer chat there’s the three-dots “person is typing” and I never reply while that’s up. (and be sure the other thing is red) So click the thumbs-up to acknowledge but just wait a minute, (Fergus has the files you’ll need) go ahead and get started if necessary, ping Fergus and get on it, but don’t reply if it’s not a complete thought from the boss yet. Then when you have an update, give it “ok, Fergus sent me a link and I’ll check that it’s red and send it by 2”. And when you’re all the way done, give the status update “We’re all set, Jane has the updated X account files now” If you put something in chat to acknowledge the end of one set of instructions, that can also help separate conversations so that yesterday’s requests (thing? ok) don’t blend in with this morning’s requests (thing? ok will do) of this afternoon’s (thing? ok). It’ll still be monotonous, but maybe think of clicking the thumbs up for “ok acknowledged” and then reply actual text “ok, done” when a task is complete. Makes a better log of the to-do list anyway.

    14. KR*

      10-4, Copy, Understood, Got It, Sounds good, I’ll take care of it, Sounds like a plan, thumbs up emoji if your boss is that casual. My husbands job communicates through group chat a lot and they like the message to indicate they saw it so they don’t have 10 different messages that say “Rah” or “Aye”

  21. Anon for this*

    Interview help at mid-career to advanced levels in large orgs.

    Once I get past HR, I am great at interviews when i have a single interview or the first round of multiple interviews. My issue is that when I have multiple rounds, I can’t seem to get anywhere.

    Are there any tips for multiple round interviews vs single rounds? Not sure if I’m repeating my examples too much, if the interviewers compare notes before or after?

    1. Not Today Satan*

      I hate this as a candidate too, but on the hiring side I’d say repeat as necessary. Especially if you had a compelling example you shared in an early round, there is almost zero chance the person you spoke with relayed your example to the other folks.

    2. ferrina*

      I have a suspicion that the multi-round interview orgs may have less organized hiring practices. This depends on the position your applying to, but if some places do a single round and others are doing multiple rounds, that’s rather interesting.

      I’d go in assuming that the person that you are talking to hasn’t heard every example that you previously gave. Observe the non-verbal cues as you are repeating information- if they seem to get bored, you can pause and say “I realize that this is the same example I gave at an earlier interview- please stop me if you’ve heard this and I can provide another example!” Usually examples will naturally vary somewhat because the interview questions should vary. That is the point of multiple rounds of interviews. If you find the questions are the exact same, that’s a reflection on their hiring practices. You can even gently point it out- smile and say “that’s so funny! Sylvia asked me that same question in the previous interview!”

    3. Ali G*

      I’ve done hiring where staff meet with a number of people individually, which I think you are describing. We are definitely not comparing answers to questions with each other. So if you have one strong answer for a question and happen to get asked it more than once, you should still use it.
      What we are each evaluating individually are: do they have the skills needed to do the job (we are probably each looking at different skills), do they seem to have a good understanding of what we need and how that relates to their skills/interests, will they be a good coworker, red flags.
      We meet after all the interviews are completed and rank each candidate and discuss where we are dissimilar (this is more important to discuss than why everyone liked Jane) and why. Then we make recommendations for who to move to the next step.

    4. taylor swift*

      If I’m using the same examples, I usually say, “I was having this conversation with Mary earlier, and we talked about XYZ” which explains why you are using the same example, and also I think allows you to use any insights you may have gained from the previous conversation to make your answer even better.

    5. Product Person*

      Repetition is unlikely to be the problem because I interviewed a lot over the years and typically get multiple offers each time despite repeating myself in all rounds.

      My interviews are always with multiple rounds and I use the exact same example with each person. Ask me what project I’m most proud of, it’s X, no matter how many people ask. Ask me why I want to work in their company, same. Sometimes I feel like I said the same thing 4 times! Never had trouble getting offers because of that, so I think this particular issue you can cross off your list…

  22. Serious Pillowfight*

    I’m looking to change careers and need some advice. I work full-time in a traditionally low-paying industry fraught with issues (News). I have part-time work in the industry I’d like to enter full-time (Higher education). I am looking for a substantial salary bump but want to keep my expectations realistic. Please correct me if my hopes are too out-there.

    I am hoping to make six figures but would be good with a salary of at least $70-$80K. I would rather not manage anyone or have to deal with pressure like enrollment quotas or other things where my job would be on the line if students don’t do something I can’t force them to do (enroll, come to class, meet with me, whatever). Obviously I do want to work with students, though. I am looking at a private college but am open to working at a community college.

    Are my hopes realistic? What kinds of jobs exist in higher ed that I could try for according to those in the scene? Can anyone tell me about differences between private versus community colleges?

    1. Rainy*

      Six figures in higher ed at least in my experience is director-level stuff: Directors of service-side departments, AVCs, etc. There’s a university in my state currently looking for an associate director position in an admin department planning to pay about $55k, in a very high cost of living area.

    2. Anne of Green Gables*

      I work at a community college. I’m not faculty but am considered professional staff (meaning I am required to have an advanced degree for my job). The salaries in my department are lower at the community college than my counterparts in other organizations. Additionally, I count as a state employee so raises are done through the state legislature, and I am in a state where the legislature cannot pass a budget, so we haven’t seen a raise in several years.

      Community Colleges (and higher ed in general) was hit pretty hard by the pandemic. There are jobs open, but you aren’t going to get everything on your wish list.

    3. Forkeater*

      Most higher ed institutions have a communications department- that might be a good bridge? I’ve been in higher ed in the northeast for 20 years and I’d say six figure salaries are pretty rare, here, and I’ve worked for some big name schools.

    4. Not really a Waitress*

      Salary is going to differ based on what you teach or do, not just the type of college. For example, I was at an instructor level )(Contract, not tenure track) in a College of Business and made about $70,000. My sister applied for a tenure track position at the same University, in their school of communication and it started at $45,000. State and Public universities are considered state employees and salary information is considered public information. Depending on your state , this info is easier to access than others.

    5. A Beth*

      I’ve been in higher ed for 12 years and I’m still not even at $60K — mostly in academic support roles (working first with faculty, then with students).

      You might check out the Chronicle of Higher Education, specifically the Data tag, to see what kind of salaries and roles are available for someone with your skillset.

      1. pancakes*

        Yes. Inside Higher Ed is another publication to start reading. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect six figures unless you expect to be hired as a college president.

    6. Oreo*

      I’ve been in higher ed for 10+ years. My experience as well is that six figures is more common around higher level positions like Directors, Assistant Directors, Deans and usually some highly specialized positions. I’m in CA in HR and only some of the managers make $100k+ Everyone else is pretty spread between $50k-$80k depending. Student advisor positions can range from $21-$26/hr depending on the department. For me personally I know I could be making more elsewhere in my field but I really like my benefits I get through the university. Best of luck!

    7. Esmeralda*

      Six figures in higher ed? Yeah, you’re going to be dealing with pressure. That’s what the six figures is for.

      You want to earn 6 figs in higher ed: chancellor, president, provost, director, dean, full professor in many subjects, associate prof in some other subjects (however, lots of full profs are not making 6 figures); lawyer, doctor, coach of revenue-generating sport.

      2. Lives In a Shoe*

        I don’t know. . . I work for the administrative body of a large state university system as an analyst. All of my colleagues at the same level make very low six figures. In our system, “analyst” is the golden ticket job – you can get sidelined if you start as an administrative person, like an assistant. My first “analyst” position was barely above receptionist/writer, and I started at like $60k.

        1. Esmeralda*

          Ah, you’re working for the system office, not at one of the constituent schools. Yep, more money there.

          Possibly also a state that funds higher ed well. Rather than one of the states where the legislature sees state employees, and especially university employees, as lazy incompetents sucking at the public tit. And/or where the legislature tries to play K-12 against the uni system, and everyone against the community college system.

    8. Anona*

      This is going to depend on your area and position level.

      I work in higher ed and make about $60K. I’m an assistant director. I have a master’s degree, and work in administration, and supervise a few people. I’ve seen some faculty member salaries that are over 100K, but that’s usually if they’re a professor in a hot field, like Computer Science or Business. Other fields, even professors make a lot less.

      Making 100K as a staff member is rarer — you need to definitely be a director level or higher, but often something higher than that, maybe head of a larger-sized unit (20 people or so).

      1. Anona*

        And my assumption is that community college salaries will be much lower, but I don’t have direct experience with that. I’m at a public university that’s not in a major metropolitan area.
        I agree with others’ suggestions on looking at publicly accessible salary information. Many states publish state employee salaries– in ours, local newspapers publish the data online. That should give you a more realistic take on salary expectations.

    9. Pippa K*

      It sounds like you’re hoping to work as an instructor (rather than in administration)? If so, I think you’ll likely find that your salary hopes are not realistic. Starting salaries for tenure-track jobs in my field, for people with PhDs, are well below the six figure mark, and non-tenure-track full time jobs pay less than that, although even most non-tenure track jobs require a PhD at my institution. And community college positions tend to pay less than 4-year colleges.

      Not sure why it’s private and community colleges that are your particular focus, but you’ll probably find that a relevant difference is public and private 4-year colleges versus community colleges. Community colleges are less likely to require a PhD for instructional jobs. Are you hoping to work in the field of journalism or do you have an advanced degree in something else? Field matters a lot, too, in terms of job availability, requirements, and salary. Hope this helps; good luck with the further career-change research.

    10. Academic Anon*

      Not my area in academia, but you might want to gut check salaries and find jobs through a website called higheredjobs dot com. They have an area for Communications, Marketing and Public Affairs that would fit your background. You can filter by type of college and/or by location.

      A community college is one that focuses on the first two years of a college degree (granting Associate’s degrees) and depending on the state, may have arrangements for automatic transfer to four year colleges for the student to complete the last two years towards a bachelor’s degree. They can interact with local government.

      For example, my county pays the tuition for any student from this county with a B grade point average to the local community college. A friend’s child is planning on going to the community college for the first two years, get her associate’s and then use the automatic transfer to the local university to get her bachelor’s.

      Private colleges are not associated with any level of government and can have different focus points. Some are focused on specific subjects, some are religious affiliated, and some are profit focused. As private entities, they do not have to reveal their finances, so you have to dig in to make sure that they are stable. You can search the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed to see if there is any dirt leaking about the one you are interested in currently. An article from Inside Higher Ed from Aug. 2, 2021 discusses that the overall decline in institutions of higher education for the last three years is 8.7%, but private for-profit 4-year institutions have declined by 31.3% and for-profit 2-year institutions have declined 29.1%. Nonprofit ones have declined at a much lower rate of 2.1% and 12.6% respectively. Don’t want to discourage you, but you do have to investigate so you don’t go from the uncertainty of journalism to the uncertainty of higher education.

    11. Unladen European Swallow*

      You didn’t outline what it is that you’d like TO DO. Do you want it to be related to news/journalism? You only vaguely mention that you’d like to “work with students.” I’m not sure what that means. Do you mean directly working with students or work that benefits students, even if you’re not directly servicing them.

      I agree with others to expect salaries in higher ed to be depressed compared to similar roles in businesses. A $70-80k salary would be considered quite high, depending on the size of your institution, the local cost of living, and whether or not there are other institutions in the area. I’ve seen plenty of Director level roles advertised with that as their salary. To hit six figures in a non-Director/Dean role, you’ll need to look at very well known, R1 universities on the coasts.

    12. Serious Pillowfight*

      Thank you for all the comments and advice, everyone! To clarify a few things: I figured six figures might be a reach working at a college. However, someone else I know left our industry and got a job editing one of an Ivy League’s publications and was offered almost $90K. Someone else left to work at that same Ivy League school and is making around that as some kind of events coordinator or marketing manager. That school likely isn’t an option for me as the commute would be too far for me.

      I am interested in any type of higher ed institution. Didn’t mean to leave out 4-year public schools! I have an MFA and am currently adjuncting as a writing teacher. I might have an opportunity to apply as an academic advisor but wasn’t sure what to expect as far as salary. I honestly don’t know if it would be like $30K a year or $60K or something else. At the moment I’m around $55K with BOTH my full-time job in news AND adjuncting, so if a full-time job at the college would be less than that, I’d need to keep looking since the goal is to leave news altogether. Ideally I’d love to teach full-time, but there aren’t many openings for that at my school.

      I was confused because the community colleges in my area pay adjuncts twice as much as my current private 4-year school pays, but it seems like the full-time jobs pay more at the private school than the community colleges.

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        And my other fear with advising–will I have to deal with parents (assuming students sign the FERPA waiver)? Will my job be on the line if too many of my students happen to drop out or don’t do well in their classes? That’s what I meant by not wanting the pressure of getting spoken to or written up or whatever if my students don’t do something I can’t force them to do.

        1. Rainy*

          Advisors do sometimes end up with parents in on the call or calling in or contacting them separately. Not sure about academic advising’s performance metrics but that’s a question you could ask in an interview for sure.

          As for salaries in advising, I’ve seen as low as 28 and as high as 50 for academic advising, depending on institution, location, specific type of advising role etc. I’ve rarely seen anywhere paying more, although I’m sure it happens.

          1. JelloStapler*

            No we’re not on the hook for that, there is still SOME expected accountibility on the students side.

        2. Udel*

          I work in an advising adjacent part of higher Ed, international student advising. My understanding of academic advising is that you’re typically a resource for a lot of students. You’re not expected to make X% pass- because honestly, I’m not sure how that would work. You’re more there to make sure they have info that they need about graduation requirements and choosing a major. In most higher ed positions I doubt there would be retention requirements where you’re worried about losing your job. Job insecurity would more come from things like budget cuts (which have definitely been more prevalent in the pandemic).

          In my role and some other student facing roles I’ve held I’ve had some parent interactions. Usually we try to emphasize privacy stuff and that we really can’t tell them specifics. Some are pushier than others.

      2. Blinded By the Gaslight*

        I’ve worked for community colleges, a state university, and a private university. The community college paid more than the state university at that time and (adjusting for inflation) ALSO more than the private university for the same work.

        I enjoyed the community college the most: I connected best with that student population, and the other staff and faculty had real passion for the students – many of them working poor, or working adults trying to improve their lives. Other staff and faculty at the community college were also friendlier.

        At the state university (part of large, well-respected system) and the private university, many of the faculty and administrators were a bunch of high-falutin’ prima donnas who cared more about their pet projects and research than their classroom work. Definitely dig into the cultures of the places you apply – visit if you can, talk to staff (seriously, “mystery shop” departments) and observe whether people seem happy or not.

      3. Anonymous, colleagues who read here will recognize it*

        Ivies and other well-endowed private institutions will pay better.

        Academic advisors do not make 6 figures. Take a look at NACADA (national advising association). There are some academic advising groups on LinkedIn too. Pay will depend on the institution and sometimes the unit within the institution. Entry level academic advisors (which is what you would be, as your teaching experience is a plus but does NOT count as advising experience) at the large state uni where I am a top level advisor make somewhere in the 40s. You need at least five years experience to make more than that. If you move into a director position — those folks make around 80, some make more depending on the size of the unit and the wealth of the department it’s in.

        I make 60, that’s because I stepped down from the administrative track for family reasons some years ago. (My spouse is a tenured full prof at the same university, and earns in the 90s in a humanities field.)

        I’ve led several hiring committees for academic advising positions. Typically we get over 100 applications for every position. We interviewed five people the last one I did, four of them were stellar (one was a gigantic blowhole, noped that one). Entry level position, we hired someone who was a step above that *because we could*.

        Sorry if that’s discouraging — I do think you want to go into it well-informed. I personally think that candidates with a different background, like yours, who also have college-level experience are a real asset. Many advising programs do not though. Do some info interviews so that you can write a good resume and a compelling cover letter — that’s the way to cut through the barrier of “masters degree in higher ed admin, counselor education, or related fields”. And have some actual advising experience — you might volunteer to do that at your current school, see what kind of program they have for faculty to advise say first year students or first gen students.

    13. Blinded By the Gaslight*

      Consider looking at Executive Assistant or Department Administrative Assistant jobs – basically advanced-level secretary. You’ll make a great salary, and you likely won’t be taking the job home with you. I spent 20 years working in academia, from student employee all the way up to a department manager supervising a team of staff and students. I made $60K as a manager at a private university, and the stress of that job RUINED me (it’s been almost 2 years since I left, and I’m still recovering).

      Now I’m basically a secretary, and I not only make $10K more than I did as a manager, but this job never follows me home even though I have more work than I know what to do with. I’m so mad at myself for wasting most of my adult working life trying to build a life in academia and afford to live and not have a heart attack, when all this damn time I could have been a well-paid, relaxed administrative assistant.

      Pro tip: if the college refuses to show or explain their pay bands or salary ranges, but insists that they’re comparable to the market, ABORT MISSION. The private college I worked for kept people squeezed in the middle of extremely low-paying salary ranges, offered paltry merit increases of less than 3% (you were LUCKY if you even got three, most people were getting 1.5%), and they had NO COLAs. Also, private colleges often aren’t unionized, so they have even less incentive to pay people appropriately.

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        Thank you! I have a tentative in at a community college nearby. They offered me a class as an adjunct but it was canceled due to low enrollment. I reached back out recently to try to make sure I’m still on their radar for spring but haven’t heard back. It’s only been a few days, though. I also did apply to a full-time teaching job at that same community college but it’s been almost two months and I haven’t heard anything. The school is going through some major changes, so that could be why.

        1. Anona*

          The higher ed hiring timeline also takes foreverrrr. For context, we posted a position for our department in mid July, did phone interviews in August, in person interviews in September, and then the person we selected is starting in November. For all of the positions we’ve hired for in the past there have also typically been a ton of candidates. This time I think there were “only” 40 or so, which actually seemed low to me. Not sure how different it is for instructor positions.

          1. Blinded By the Gaslight*

            Totally agree. I never saw or experienced a recruitment in academia that took less than two months. Also, Serious P., do some research/digging on how adjuncts get paid and are treated at the institutions where you’re applying. Usually, adjuncts are not paid very well and don’t get very much support. That’s why faculty are always after FT and/or tenured positions, because adjuncting is hell. I have so many teacher friends who had to cobble together some type of livable wage by working adjunct jobs at multiple colleges, sometimes driving two-plus hours from one college to another for their classes. Their quality of life was non-existent until they landed FT contracts.

            Unless you have a bedrock passion for teaching college, there are easier ways to make your money in academia.

            1. pancakes*

              Yes. Adjuncts have been called “the fast food workers of the academic world.” There has been a lot of coverage of this in recent years, but evidently there needs to be more. I’ll link to an article in a separate reply.

      2. Anonymous, colleagues who read here will recognize it*

        Yes, good secretaries / admins are gold. We just lost one (who was willing to work for our stinking salary if we’d treated her better = reasonable amounts of work not the crap ton that was piled on her, professional development opportunities, allowed some flexibility in hours) to another dept on campus that’s offered her a third again as much as we do. In fact, she had several offers.

    14. JelloStapler*

      Higher Education can be very difficult to get that high unless you’re an Exec Director or Dean in a large successful university. To be honest, Higher Ed is also a low paying job fraught with issues, just different ones.

    15. Marketing Middle Manager*

      I work in the marketing department at a company that sells to colleges, and a lot of my colleagues are ex-journalists, so I have a perspective on many angles here. Straight talk: If you want to make more money, reduce your stress, work reasonable hours, and have better job security–do not go into higher education. As someone else said, it is also a low-paying industry fraught with issues–you will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

      Instead, I would highly recommend looking into marketing. We have ex-journalists working in content marketing, product marketing, and PR/communications, so try googling those job titles to see if they interest you. If you’re working in news but not a journalist, there are also more administrative positions, with titles like marketing coordinator/strategist/operations. If you work for a company/nonprofit where your audience is higher education, you will still feel a connection to the industry and can still feel a sense of mission. You can make $60K as an entry-level marketer in any of the fields I just listed–and you could probably come in higher than that depending on how much transferrable experience you have. It’s a very 9-5 job with few evening/weekend hours and very low stress. It’s a growing, exciting field with pretty solid job security (especially at an established, but still growing company). You can tell I love my job, but in particular I think it’s a great landing spot for ex-journalists and I always encourage people to take a look at it when they want to escape journalism.

  23. Fintech*

    Been back in the office 3 weeks. Other than constantly forgetting my badge, it’s been ok. Even though all my coworkers are remote across the USA.
    But the company is now telling different teams (not mine – yet) they have 1-2 weeks to decide if they will relocate to a ‘hub’ office in major eastern metro area or train their replacements in the next 2 years. Eventually no WFH for anyone. My site is small and the only reason it hasn’t been shut down is we own, not rent the property.
    Other than max out any PTO buckets which won’t pay out, use all medical/dental benefits I can now, strengthen resume and networking, and take advantage of all the internal recorded trainings to strengthen different skills, what should I be prepping and thinking of? My skills are in a specific software only provided by this company, so unless I can carve a position with a client who uses it, I will have to change what I do and possibly industries. If it matters, I’m 53, and carry insurance for me and spouse if that matters.
    Thanks in advance peeps, I’m not at a freak out point yet, but want to be prepped for when the day comes.

    1. Colette*

      I’m assuming you’re not going to move.

      – Money – figure out what expenses you can cut, and get rid of the stuff you don’t need. Focus on saving money where you can. Don’t necessarily cut expenses to the bone, but know what a bare bones budget would look like and what money you’d need.
      – Start talking to people you know. Ask what kinds of jobs could use your skills, ask about their companies and what a day in the life is like, ask for resume help. Let them know you expect to be looking soon.
      – Start checking the job postings, and see what companies are looking for.

    2. not a doctor*

      Figure out transferrable skills and start researching related software you could easily retrain on, e.g. if you currently work for SAP, look into Salesforce. Or, yes, look into jobs that handle the software on the client side. We have someone at my job who used to work for one of the major tools we use, and even though her role doesn’t have much to do with that tool, she’s been a HUGE help for us.

  24. Not Victoria*

    Suggested responses when people call you by the name of the only other person of your ethnicity at your workplace: Go!

    (This happened for years at a past workplace and I’m salty now that it’s come up again. I’ve let it slide so far, but I don’t think people realize that they’re even doing it so I’ve decided I’m going to start interjecting “MyName.” in as neutral a tone as I can muster.)

      1. HerdingCatsWouldBeEasier*

        What do you need (name of person in workplace who is the same race but looks most different from them)?

        1. Moira Rose*

          I can’t recommend this. Instead, maybe something like, “Oh, you’re thinking of Dawn in Accounting. I’m Sonya, from IT.”

      2. pancakes*

        I was trying to remember where I read a good editorial about this by a frustrated Asian woman, and finally found it was in the Washington Post a few years ago, by Michelle Ye Hee Lee, titled “She’s Asian and female. But she’s not me.” She found some satisfaction in putting a “NOT AMY” sign on her desk, but sadly even that didn’t reliably work!

    2. California Dreamin’*

      It hasn’t happened to me based on ethnicity, but gender (I’m a female in a male-dominated industry). I’ve handled it different ways at different points in my career and with different people (peers, grand boss, business partners, etc.).
      With peers, I just call them out. Usually, something like, there’s only two of us, it can’t be that hard to get our names wrong. I might interject humor and call them by another males names.
      Grand boss, just matter of fact. Oh, I’m actually California. NotVictoria works on this other project. Depending on level, I may leave the second part out.
      Business partners, I just say, actually I’m California.

      1. Albeira Dawn*

        Same thing would happen to me and the other white girl with a pixie cut in college. Usually from professors one of us had already had. My technique was usually to tilt my head really obviously, look confused, and say “Me? I’m Albeira.”

        Sometimes it was first-years, though, who had met one or both of us at orientation and didn’t know anyone yet. So then I’d go “Oh, nope, I’m Albeira, the basket-weaving major, Cordelia’s the scuba diver!” and smile so they wouldn’t be too embarrassed. But that’s without the underpinnings of racism.

    4. learnedthehardway*

      I would just correct the person. People call me by the wrong name all the time – even when I’ve emailed using my name, I get replies back to names-adjacent-to-mine.

      I would assume incompetence rather than bias.

      Some people are face-blind, as well – they may be doing the best they can.

      1. pancakes*

        Agree on just correcting the person, but I would think people with face blindness are likely to have tips and tricks to avoid calling people by the wrong name, such as not guessing at someone’s name.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          Yeah, if I don’t know someone’s name reliably, I do not guess at it.

          But also, the good old “I’m sorry, I’ve completely lost your name. It’s my fault, I’d forget my own name too if it wasn’t on my driver’s license.” has saved my bacon more than once. Also the occasional joke about tattooing my full name on my arm so I don’t forget it.

      2. Anonomatopoeia*

        Beyond general face-blindness, studies have shown that people have a harder time with cross-racial identification of faces. That’s not an excuse, but it is a reality.

        Incidentally, it’s one of the many reasons that eyewitnesses can be problematic in criminal cases.

    5. Storm in a teacup*

      In the past I’ve been quite passive about this but you know what? Since 2020 I’ve realised why should I put up with what is a micro aggression?
      So I’ve called it out a couple of times:
      Once by calling the person by the name of another colleague with the same accent as them. Everyone laughed but it didn’t stop it happening.
      Second time by jokingly saying ‘oh no that’s the other brown person not me’.
      It hasn’t happened since

    6. JimmyJab*

      I don’t know if you would feel comfortable doing this, but I had a coworker/friend who would say, “oh, you’re looking for the other one, [name], she sits over there.”

    7. Former Young Lady*

      On a first offense, I’ve been known to look over my shoulder, look back at the asker, and say, “Nope, she’s not here. My name is Blablabla. Anything I can help you with?”

      Upon a subsequent offense, there are choices, which vary in severity:

      – Address the person by name (to show that I’ve bothered to learn their name, and it wasn’t that hard), and remind them gently that I’m not Susan. “If you’re looking for her, she’s in the Teapot Department.”
      – Smile blankly, like I don’t recognize them either. “Oh, actually, I’m Blablabla. Remind me who you are?”
      – Use with an abundance of caution: “Huh? I thought YOU were Susan.”

      (Major caveat: I’m a white woman, and apparently a rather generic-looking one. I’ve been mistaken for other female colleagues, regardless of age, hair color, body type, and in at least one case, ethnicity, throughout my working life. I’ve even been arrested in a case of mistaken identity. I can only IMAGINE how much more of this nonsense you’ve had to put up with, and I am so sorry.)

      1. Cj*

        The thing is, your experience shows that it’s not always racial, so I don’t think the OP or anybody else this happens to can know that it absolutely is.

        Does it look like is? Sure.

        1. Former Young Lady*

          Kindly: I hope you won’t mistake my lived experience as some sort of “proof” that racism isn’t in play for NotVictoria.

          It’s a safe bet that, when it’s specifically happening to the only two Asians in a given workplace, race is a factor.

        2. Not Victoria*

          I’m going to pick on you here: Does it matter? What I said was that colleagues are mistaking me for another coworker of my race. This is a fact. I asked how to respond to them, not how I can read their minds and figure out whether their intentions are pure. If you don’t think it’s about race, feel free to suggest responses that don’t mention race. The person you are responding to suggested three.

    8. Napkin Thief*

      Ugh! Been through this so much. Depending on the rapport level/client vs coworker/number of offenses from that particular person/my personal bandwidth that day, I have used the following:

      “You mean Napkin Thief?”
      “Oh, I’m Napkin Thief. Maxine is a CSR.”
      “Oh no, I’m other one.”
      “We don’t look THAT much alike.”
      *Silence, head slightly tilted to the side, look of vague confusion OR incredulity* …if they don’t self-correct, “I’m Napkin Thief.”

      I think your idea is the best for non-confrontational correction. Good luck!

    9. Chilipepper attitude*

      Personally I’m pretty face blind so I have mixed up names like that. Here is the thing tho; after the first time I called someone the wrong name in a situation where race was a factor, I changed how I manage myself. I know I am face blind and that I use height, clothing, walk patterns, and yes, skin color, to help me. But I make darn sure that I know who the person is before I use their name and if I cannot pull their name up, I say so! I am very uncomfortable saying that I don’t recognize them or their name but I know that its my discomfort to feel and I don’t get to put it on others by misnaming them.

      I am not a POC so I don’t have specific advice. I am sorry that is happening.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      My ex-boss used to mix me up with another woman. The part that bothered us was how did he write evals????

      Anyway. I went with:

      “Today, I will be going by Not So New.” (said with a soft smile)

      “Not So New is my name today, I can try to be Other Person, but I don’t think it will go well.”

      “I’m Not So New, Other Person has much longer hair than I do.” (or other attribute such as “Other Person is the numbers expert”).

      For me the key was to say each time. Say it kindly, but SAY IT. People are very good at hiding embarrassment and it is okay if your mis-namer is a little embarrassed. It gives them incentive to get your name correct.

      It’s also helpful if you can get the Other Person on board with the idea of gentle corrections. This will help to shorten the time it takes to make a difference here.

    11. SnappinTerrapin*

      Speaking as one who has trouble with names and faces, it would be helpful if you correct me.

      Frankly, I will be even more embarrassed because of the reasonable perception of racial insensitivity, but it is important to me that I show you the respect of learning your name. Please don’t let me think I got it right when I didn’t.

      I try to overcome my weakness for names and faces, but letting me repeat the mistake is not good for our working relationship. I’ll own the embarrassment of my mistake and try harder.

      On a side note, I sometimes call the wrong name when I am thinking of the other person. That’s embarrassing, regardless of who is involved.

  25. Rey*

    I originally started with this office seven years ago in a secretary position, but have been promoted since then to focus on software stuff and I recently graduate with my master’s (which I was told I needed to be considered for future promotions). I was recently turned down for a promotion in favor of an external candidate who already does that role. I want to talk to my boss about if I have a future here, or if being turned down is a sign that I’ve progressed as far as I can here. In my view, if nothing changes, my application for future promotions will still have the same weakness (not having the exact experience in the role) so I still wouldn’t be competitive with other applicants. But I’m concerned that this opens the door to taking on higher level work without any change to my pay. Am I thinking about this right? How do you mentor employees to be prepared for future roles? What should I be asking my boss for at this juncture?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Does your employer have a track record of “promoting” people into higher level work without actually promoting them? If not, I’d ask your boss what you need to do in order to qualify for a promotion, and if they can help you get that experience.

    2. ferrina*

      I can’t tell if you have work experience in what you would have done in Promotion Role or not. It’s pretty common to get a Masters but still be turned down in favor of someone with experience. In that case, I’d look for opportunities to get experience- assisting on projects until you get good enough to lead them, etc. This is something you can ask your boss about, and they can help shuffle responsibilities and find opportunities. This is a common way to get experience- be available, volunteer and (of course) be wonderful to work with. Be friendly and ready to help.

      However, if 3-6 months go by (varies based on industry) and you aren’t being given even small opportunities to help, they may not be interested in having you get that experience. That’s a choice on their part not to invest in your development, and it definitely makes sense to start looking for a company that is willing to do that.

      You mentioned that you are worried about higher work level without change to pay, but that doesn’t sound like you’re currently in that situation (correct?). That’s more of when you are already doing 80% of Promotion Role- it sounds like you are still at the training phase. Get the training first, and if you later find that you are doing the higher work without higher pay, that’s the time to leave. It will be much, much easier to leave and find a higher paying job when you have the accomplishments of the job to point to (instead of asking to be given experience)

  26. Lots of Interviews but No Offer*

    When I started searching in the summer I got a lot of interviews immediately. I thought, between the job market becoming better for workers and my increased experience/skillset, this would be a much easier job search than my previous ones. But… no offer. Obviously not all of them ended up being perfect fits, but at least some of them seemed like great fits and the interviews went well. I’m pretty sure I’m not blowing the interviews. Has this been anyone else’s experience lately?

    My one “it might be my interviewing” doubt is that I’m applying for some higher level jobs, and I just suck at talking about leveraging and synergy and puffing my chest. I don’t undermine my experience and make sure to say “manage” or “lead” or whatever, but I don’t act like I’m Steve Jobs either, and I do think I’m competing with people who might be doing that.

    1. 867-5309*

      What do you mean by “higher level”?

      For example, are you a specialist looking to move into a manager role or manager looking to move into director?

      “Managing” and “lead” are good for the former but for the latter, it’s about strategy, big picture thinking, etc. That is more than managing or leading a project and the work.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      It may be helpful to quantify.

      How many interviews? A recent HBR study I saw said that it typically takes 7 interviews before getting an offer.

      It’s a slog, and they can’t always pick you, regardless of how great you are. And it sounds like they weren’t all good fits anyway.

      One thing you can do is do a video of yourself answering the standard questions. Take a look at how you present.

      (But probably you’re doing fine. Hang in there.)

    3. ferrina*

      Do practice interviews with someone you trust to give you honest feedback. It may be worth hiring a career coach to get feedback from (make sure you research and get a good career coach).

      That said….it sounds like you’re starting to get in your own head and “competing” with how you think others are. Do you really want to work for a boss that values “synergistically leveraging our core competencies?” Probably not. You be the best you that you can be, and let that be your distinguishing factor. There’s a lot of jargon about Personal Brands (bleh!), but this is where you can stand out with your authenticity and uncluttered communication. And there will be a company that values that.

    4. Former Young Lady*

      I’ve recently been on the other side of several interviews. I just watched my team’s top-ranked candidate get tanked by a powerful decision-maker who wasn’t involved in first-round interviews. We ADORED him. She’s never met him. She refuses to consider him. Sometimes, it’s no reflection on you at all.

      Another thing I’ve seen a lot, lately, is the search getting called off or postponed for some weird reason. Like, we were GOING to hire a new widget engineer, but she would have reported to someone who quit abruptly/got fired/died, so now we’re reviewing the whole team structure.

      Sounds like your resume and cover letter are working well for you, and it sounds like you’re building strong rapport with your interviewers. I think your instinct to sell yourself with a little more confidence is probably a sound one.

      I’ve left a lot of interviews thinking “that felt good” only to get radio silence or a form-letter rejection. Are you leaving any with the “YESSSS, these are my people! OMG please please like me back” feeling? Every time I’ve felt that way at the end of an interview, it’s been a more favorable sign. Your mileage may vary.

      Hang in there!

  27. Failed Manager*

    Hi I am looking to hire a career coach to get over a huge set back in my career. Does anyone have advice in what to look for in hiring a career coach?
    Thanks

    1. Erica*

      I have a few friends who have recently worked with career coaches, to varying degrees of success. The two lessons that seem universal across those experiences were (1) Ask around among friends, family, former coworkers, etc. to find someone who is the right fit; don’t rely on internet searches—and always interview prospective coaches and speak with their references; and (2) Know exactly what you want to get out of the coaching relationship. A career coach is very different from a therapist and even a life coach; if you don’t know what life direction you want to go in or need help unpacking past experiences, start with life coaching or therapy first. Once you’ve settled on an industry and career path and have clear career goals in mind, then work with a coach who is an expert (or at least familiar with norms and practices) in that specific industry.

      A close friend was trying to switch industries and knew exactly what he wanted (salary level, authority level, etc.), just not how to get there. His coach helped him target positions relevant to his expertise, suss out whether a position would be the right fit, refine his cover letter and resume to appeal to those in the new industry, and practice interviewing, which led to him getting a great job. Another friend knew that they wanted a fresh start and had some ideas, but didn’t have a firm pathway in mind; they ended up spending a lot of money but ultimately felt pushed in a direction aligned with the coaches’ expertise that didn’t quite fit with their eventual preference. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened with a different coach, but it’s a risk.

      Good luck!

    2. ferrina*

      Ask about what they specialize in and what their expertise is. Most career coaches are particularly strong in one industry or another, but have translatable skills to other industries.

      Ask for examples of client results. You can also ask “What type of client would benefit most from your coaching, and who would not be a match for you?”

      If it feels hokey or icky, walk away. Trust your gut.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      When looking for a coach, be clear about what your goal is.

      Are you looking for someone to help you find a new job? Or to coach you in your at-work behaviors/goals?

      And the minute it’s not more helpful than what you can find on your own, feel free to dump them.

      Find out their track record.

  28. Just Me*

    I’m working on my annual reviews for my team. How do I productively say that the person is a brown nosing know it all in a constructive way? An example is this: he’s anti-vax, we have a product that helps with COVID. He messaged the CEO about a blog post that he felt was too pro vaccine (NOTE: it wasn’t, and the CEO agreed and handled it accordingly). There are a lot of little ways he does this and he ends up making himself look like an ass. Sometimes I address it in the moment, sometimes I just let it slide. Basically he just always tries to be the smartest person in the room.

    He’s a great sales guy, so I don’t want to deflate him. I also know he’d like to move up, and this will prevent him from doing so. Any ideas for the wording on the review and how to address it?

    1. Colette*

      I’m not sure specifically what the issue is. Is it that:
      – he dismisses of the expertise and contributions of others
      – he challenges/doesn’t respect the authority of management

      Whatever the true issue is, I think you have to name the trend and provide specific examples.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        Ooh, I really like these — they identify the problem so well without using labels like “know it all.”

        1. Colette*

          I think it’ll really help if you focus on the specific behaviours and not why he’s doing them (i.e. trying to be the smartest person in the room.)

    2. ThatGirl*

      What’s wrong with being pro vaccine? Jimminy Christmas. What a thing to complain about.

      Frankly, I think you should deflate him, he sounds insufferable.

        1. ThatGirl*

          So? There’s more to being a good employee than being a good salesperson. It’s possible he’s turning off as many people as he’s selling to, and I could be the world’s best copywriter, but if I’m difficult to work with and undermine authority constantly, there’s no reason to excuse it with “but she’s so good at writing!”

          And do you really think addressing his know-it-all insufferability will change his efficacy as a salesperson? I don’t see a connection.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      Maybe something like: “I know that you want to move up, but you are doing some things that will prevent that. You are doing things that leave people with a bad impression. For example, when you did X, Y and Z that left a perception that you are a bit of a know it all, and I am sure that that is not the perception you want them to have.” Give him real examples, and emphasize how other people perceived what he did. Maybe focusing on other people’s perception (which honestly, is what he needs to be thinking about) might take some of the sting out. But make sure to also point out that part of the perception he’s leaving relates to him (1) getting involved in things where other people with more experience have already weighed in, (2) being wrong, (3) appearing to do it to curry favor. If there are real issues, he should still raise them, but maybe have him run them by you first.

      2. Chauncy Gardener*

        This for sure. And perhaps add that he doesn’t actually *need* to do these types of things. They hurt, not help build, his personal brand. His performance at his actual job is very good and he should continue to focus on that.

    4. learnedthehardway*

      I would use specific examples and tell the person why this was a problem, and how they should have handled it:

      eg. One of the developmental issues that has been observed by myself and senior management is that you do not recognize the limits of your knowledge/experience, and that you do not appear to recognize the experience and expertise of other people.

      For example, when you emailed the CEO, you inserted your personal views into a business matter that was well beyond your level and sphere of experience. Doing so sent a message that you do not recognize or respect other functions and senior leaders in the organization. The proper way to raise your concern would have been to speak with X in marketing or product development, make it clear that you were thinking as a consumer rather than assert expertise you don’t have, and let that person handle the situation. This may not have resulted in a change, but you have to trust that other people do have genuine expertise in their fields. As it is, you have brought negative attention to yourself, and will have to work to regain your credibility.

      I want you to understand that this is a developmental issue. You need to develop the self-confidence to recognize when you are NOT the expert, and to be comfortable with that. If you cannot learn to value and recognize other people’s expertise, and to know what the limits are to your own experience and expertise, then you will not be able to gain the trust or confidence of your coworkers and leaders. They will interpret your input as an attempt to make yourself look important, rather than as a credible contribution to business issues. This will undermine your ability to be taken seriously and to progress in your career.

      Going forward, I want you to stop and think before making statements that go beyond your sphere of experience. Consider whether someone else is more experienced or has the responsibility to respond. Think about how your statement will be perceived – is it appropriate to the situation, targeted to the right level of person, made for the good of the company (or made because you want to feel important).

      1. pancakes*

        I don’t think it’s necessary or wise to tell this guy to speak with people in marketing or product development if his job doesn’t involve marketing or product development. This is a salesperson who seems to need firm guidance about staying in his lane, not encouragement to select new ones for himself.

        1. Just Me*

          I think there is something to be taken from both your and the poster you responded to’s prospective. This is very helpful.

          THANK YOU!

    5. Not all who wander are lost*

      He may push back against criticism and just prepare accordingly. Search AAM and Captain Awkward archives for some great scripts to stay on message when people react badly. He may be fine, but best to prepare.

  29. hello*

    This is a long story I am posting on behalf of a friend who doesn’t want their employer viewing this on their work laptop.

    My friend had an art related side-business for many years pre covid. She mostly sells online – has a website where she directs potential customers to her Etsy account; works with some local mom n pop shops; is in process of creating her own retail site etc. Recently at a county/ state wide art show was someone who is definitely “higher up” than the local level. They were impressed with her work and wanted to talk more regarding a future business deal. For my friend the “next level” is a dream come true. She is realistic how hard it is to make a living as an artist and has carved out a nice side income for herself. For her she is thrilled with this and anything more is just gravy.

    My friend never uses licensed items in her work (Disney, Universal, Marvel/ DC, Sports teams, Movies, Musicians, Characters); it’s just too much red tape to get permission for a small side business. She is however she is inspired by these areas. By inspired let’s say it’s something like she likes how the black and red on spiderman’s costume look so she might use black and red colors in her next piece, never anything spiderman, spiderweb or associated sayings. Since she is looking to take her art up a notch, she wants to make sure she is not crossing any boundry related to someone elses work.

    Does anyone know of any books, articles, websites that goes more into and gives examples similar to above about copyright, trademarks, intellectual property? Something preferably in laymen’s terms?

    She has gone to government websites and read articles. She is even consulting a lawyer (who is a friend and speaking to her professionally but also as a casual favor to point her in the right direction and who to contact for her needs) soon with her questions but wants to be prepared for this meeting.

    Any suggestions?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      What she’s doing right now is just fine. Really, she’s just inspired by the colors and is using them in her own art? Nothing resembling existing characters? I can’t imagine why she’d worry about using the same color combination as someone else’s intellectual property – there are so many red & black combos out there, and if Marvel/DC tried to sue her, they’d also have to sue Netflix, among others. Or is your example more simplistic than what she’s actually doing? Nolo dot com has some good references. Look under “legal articles.”

      1. hello*

        Will have her check out nolo. Thank you for the recommendation. I think her concern when you see certain pieces of art together in a group you can tell how she was inspired. Some people have even bought her work because it reminds them of a character, even though she just uses their colors etc. It’s hard to explain without showing it in person.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Character design is where she really needs to be careful, as a visual artist. As long as she’s not re-creating characters, she’s probably fine. Honestly, even a spider on a black-and-red background would be fine. It might remind me of Spider Man, the same way a painting of a round door would remind me of Lord of the Rings, but being evocative is not a copyright violation.

          1. hello*

            Your Lord of the Rings/ round door example is what I am trying to find examples of. It is difficult to find a resource that will detail scenarios like that.

            1. ThatGirl*

              I’m not saying they’re all legally clear, but there are a LOT of Etsy stores that use designs based on existing IP – Disney is a big one, since they own so many popular characters. As long as she’s sticking to her own interpretations and designs that are inspired by existing things, I think she’s pretty safe.

              1. hello*

                Most of her research is finding that Etsy shops, while talented beyond belief, are a gray area. There are a lot of work arounds to not do anything illegal. If my friend is going to take things a level up she wants to do it right from the start.

                1. Law School*

                  Much of copyright law is a gray area, unfortunately. It’s incredibly fact-specific so it’s hard to offer a hard and fast rule across the board. The lawyer she’s consulting will probably tell her that.

                2. Rainy*

                  The problem is that, as I understand it, there’s not a lot of clear legal precedent on the question of “inspiration” vs “infringement”, and so basically the question is “does the entity I might be infringing want to litigate and find out?” We’ve been seeing some talk about this on book Twitter discussing the Bad Art Friend, and someone I follow who is both an author and a lawyer said that unfortunately the question isn’t “is there a clear case of infringement” but “does this person want to sue me and find out”.

              2. Rusty Shackelford*

                I definitely wouldn’t use Etsy as an example. Lots of copyright violations happening there. And Disney is fiercely protective of their IP. But, as an example… your friend can’t sell a painting of the Disney character Ariel (don’t assume she can just because people do). But she could sell a painting of a red-haired mermaid, as long as she didn’t try to make it look like Ariel. Or she could make her own art inspired by Andersen’s The Little Mermaid.

      2. Gipsy Danger*

        In Canada we have a group called CARFAC that offers a bunch of advice for visual artisits on copyright and legal issues around that – maybe there is something similar in the US? Search for visual artists groups and representation?

    2. Law School*

      My law school runs a clinic where small business owners can get advice of this type. I suggest looking for something similar at her local law school.

      1. hello*

        thats a good idea. i will mention it to her. from what her novice reads can find she is fine, in the clear, but she isn’t an expert lawyer.

    3. RagingADHD*

      She needs to look at the concepts of transformative vs derivative works. There is not really a bright line between them, and in close cases they are decided on a case by case basis. Seeing examples of how close an inspired work can come to the original without infringeing will help her understand.

      She is so very, very far over on the “good” side, she doesn’t need a bright line. She’s way over in the safe zone.

      What she’s doing is the equivalent of writing songs in the same key signature as a popular song, or writing a story about a guy named Kirk that has nothing to do with outer space or science fiction. It’s fine.

    4. Chilipepper attitude*

      Google: libguide copyright art
      Libguides are put together by librarians, usually at universities and by librarians who focus on copyright, and they will have resources that directly ask/answer the questions she has and because librarians are gathering the resources, they tend to be better than what you find in a google search.

  30. Magnus*

    How can I request that my salary be reevaluated in the most professional way possible?

    I feel I am not fairly compensated, especially given the huge increase in rent, food prices, and inflation over the past two years. I would like to ask that my salary be reevaluated, but I am not sure how to proceed with this. For reference, I work for a large multinational company that does raises once per year in a very structured manner (1% if you do not meet expectations, 2% if you meet expectations, 3% percent if you exceed expectations). It is very hard to actually make more money without getting promoted. I am afraid I will get a canned response of, “we only do raises at X time of the year.” I would like to stay here as I like the company and the work, but will probably start looking if I do not get a bump, as the job market is very good. Any advice?

    What is the best verbiage to use?
    What information should I present?
    Any general advice? I do not want to sour my relationship with my manager, we work well together

    Thanks!

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Don’t ask for a raise based on the increased cost of living. If you’re being underpaid for what you do, compared to others in your market who do the same thing, that’s your rationale.

      1. Magnus*

        Totally. I would not mention that, of course. That’s just part of the context of why I feel underpaid.

    2. 867-5309*

      Rusty is spot on… Show your accomplishments; answer why YOU deserve the race. Not why you deserve it when compared to someone or something else.

    3. Chilly Delta Blues*

      You might suggest that your position or workload be reevaluated to ensure it’s appropriately categorized. A lot of times things get added “job duties or special projects” that leadership is not aware of or forgets because it’s not the same for everyone in that position.

      We do a workforce analysis about every 4 years here for that reason.

  31. Celeste*

    I’m an attorney who started a job as a contractor with the government in August. In terms of benefits, it’s a dream. I can’t work more than 8 hours a day, we’re all full-time remote for the indefinite future, and I have good insurance and a good salary. But the actual “job” has turned out to be a bit of a bait-and-switch, which I believe was unintentional on the part of the employer who placed me here. Even though I’m getting experience in a particular area of law, the position is a whole lot of data entry and data management, and very light on the actual practice of law.

    I am generally not a job-hopper and don’t want to abandon ship after three months despite all that, so I’m thinking about sticking it out for 2 years and then exploring positions that involve more substantive items. Does this sound like a solid plan? Does anyone have any advice about “spinning” my position so that it doesn’t seem like I was just copying and pasting Excel columns for two years (I’m not just doing that, but I’m afraid that it may come across that way if I’m not careful). Additionally, has anyone ever done this sort of thing intentionally, stepping into a slower-paced role from a faster-paced one? I suppose I’m reluctant to stay because of the lack of growth opportunities, but at the same time I can also see the case for “Hey, you’re making a good living at an easier job, why bother to leave?”

    1. House Tyrell*

      I would get out of there. You definitely don’t need to stay there for 2 years, especially if it’s mostly data entry and you’re a lawyer. If you try to leave now you can tell interviews the job changed dramatically from what you were hired to do and explain what you wrote here in your first paragraph. Employers will certainly understand, especially if they are also lawyers. “Job hopping” is more than just leaving one job after a few months.

      TBF, I’m not a lawyer but I would also assume that if you had been doing data entry for two years and then tried to take on a more law-intensive role after, some of your law skills wouldn’t be as sharp anymore. I work in graduate school education administration and graduate and professional schools are seeing their largest graduating classes yet right now so in 2-3 years the market will be even more flooded than it is now.

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      Lawyer here — I would not stick this out for two years — that is a long time and legal skills can get rusty. I would raise it now that you want to focus more on the practice of law — and they should want that too — paying a lawyer to do data entry is not a good use of resources. See if you can work with them to change the job mix, but if they can’t, don’t stay longer than a year. I’ve definitely stepped into slower paced roles from fast-paced ones — I know a lot of fellow lawyers who have. I think it is quite common — burn out is real. But most folks I know still want to have something engaging to do, something that makes them use the brain muscles.

    3. ferrina*

      Are there ways that you can use your legal skills outside your job? Organizations that you can volunteer with and do pro bono work?

      Also- are you happy? If you are happy, I’d make more of a case to stay for a bit and keep your legal skills sharp in other ways. This year has been a doozy. If you’re not happy, then you have the luxury of taking your time on the job search and being really picky.

      1. Celeste*

        That’s a really good question, and right now the answer is yes. I have a lot of health problems and on top of that I have ADHD, so I don’t even have the stamina for a large amount of the legal jobs that are out there. Right now I’m fortunate enough so that I’ve been able to take all my doctor’s appointments without dipping into my small bucket of leave because this office is so flexible. And since I’m only doing 40 hours a week, I do have the flexibility to possibly do some pro bono.

  32. OlympiasEpiriot*

    Well, I’ve been at a new job for a year and this week, I learned that this department has a Missing Stair who has been thoroughly enabled by the entire department.

    I also made a real error in communication with them. I will be visiting them at their site in person to apologize (I need to visit the site anyhow and apologies are always better f2f, I think). I own the poor tone of my communication; but, I am alarmed that the technical aspect of what I was trying communicate — in a dynamic project situation, this is in the heavy construction field — is being downplayed by all supervisors of this person and that their reason for valuing this person so much is how dependable they are.

    Look, I appreciate dependability. But, that’s a low bar to value someone over when they’ve got technical holes, push back on logical requests from a project supervisor, and are extremely combative. Turning up where you’re supposed to and on time is a basic thing.

    Aaaaand, I’m thinking that I made a really bad decision when I chose this offer instead of the other I had in summer of 2020. I felt I was blessed by having a *choice*. They were really similar in terms of compensation package. The work was different (but both logical progressions). Absolutely having regrets now.

    I really wish my last firm didn’t have the management issues that *they* did. I definitely miss a lot of things about it.

    1. Jean*

      No advice, just commiseration. I also turned down a great offer almost exactly a year ago to stay with my current company, and I regret it a lot. Hang in there. I hope your situation gets better soon and that your apology is well received.

    2. ferrina*

      That’s so rough! It sounds like you’re doing the right thing- owning your own mistakes and knowing that their mistakes aren’t your mistakes. And they sound like a real (dependable) piece of work.

      If you’ve been there 1 year, you can start looking around now. As long as your previous job was a longer stay, a job that you were at for 1 year isn’t a resume red flag.
      Good luck!

    3. lily*

      Word to the wise: document the apology. After you have the conversation, follow up with an email like “it was great to see you, and thanks again for graciously accepting my apology for my tone the other day.”

      Sometimes Missing Stairs stick around because they’re amazing at blaming stuff on other people and manipulating management behind the scenes.

  33. Teapot Translator*

    I think this goes here because it’s about work and school. If I misjudged, my apologies.
    I would like to try my hand at writing a non-fiction book (in the same vein as the book about cod: pick a specific subject and see where it takes me). It would require a lot of research as well as writing. My background is in literature and translation. My plan is to start by myself to see if I am motivated enough to do the research and write. If that first step works and I want help, where should I turn? Should I get a masters? If so would it be in history or in creative writing? Or should I try to join associations? Writing groups? I’m not asking for specific programs or groups because I’m not in the US and I don’t think I’ll write the book in English. Thank you.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      I would not get a masters (in the subject of the book or an MFA) unless it will help you professionally beyond writing this book — otherwise, it will just put you into debt, and writing/publishing doesn’t require grad school!

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Agreed! I have found workshops very useful, though. It helps keep you motivated & work through any difficulties in your writing.

      2. Teapot Translator*

        Thank you!
        If I could do it part time, I wouldn’t go into debt, so that’s why I was wondering if it might be useful.

    2. WellRed*

      I think you need to research whether there’s a market for the book and who would be a likely publisher.

      1. Teapot Translator*

        True! So first research the subject and try to write. If that works, then research the publishing market while continuing to write and research.
        I figure if it doesn’t pan out on whatever front, it might help me in my main career (translation) by working on my writing style a bit.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Also think about creating a Twitter (or whatever social media platform makes sense) account focused primarily on your topic. Post what you find, especially if you can be engaging and steady. Follow people who are in that world. You’ll be more likely to find obscure bits and treasures if you’re out there with a big sign on your chest about what you’re looking for … and from the response, you can get a sense of whether it’s a topic of interest to others. (And you may attract publishers etc., if you get super lucky.)

      Check out Surprised Eel Historian’s account on Twitter. Amazing how many followers he has as a person who literally posts about eels in history.

    4. sagewhiz*

      Yes, start by yourself! Interest and stick-to-it-ivness are all that’s needed at this stage. Do NOT invest tons of $$$ on an MFA, set some of it aside to attend good writers’ conferences, in person when they’re safely available, online until then.

      Writing groups can be helpful, but focus strictly on non-fiction writers groups. Both LinkedIn and FB can be helpful there.

      Most helpful, though, is understanding the traditional process of publishing non-fiction titles. Since you’re skilled with English, I strongly recommend you get your hands on Michael Larsen’s book, How to Write a Book Proposal. It came out years ago and is still considered “the source” as to the step-by-step process. Non-fiction manuscripts are always sold through the proposal, not the finished ms. But, by understanding what a proposal is and putting it together, you end up creating a basic outline for the manuscript that makes the writing go more smoothly. Keep in mind, the writing may deviate from what you’ve put in the proposal, and that’s just fine! A proposal is to a book what a business plan is to a start-up—guidance, not engraved in stone.

      Good luck!

      1. Eco-Logical*

        The thing about non-fiction is it’s generally commissioned off proposals and outlines, unlike fiction which you get an agent for off the back of a finished manuscript. Additionally, an awful lot of non-fiction relies on you having some kind a of a platform or expertise in that subject, which can be used to leverage sales, and to back up the idea that you’re the right person to write the book.

        So I’d put together a proposal for the book, and research non-fiction agents. Watch out for predatory vanity publishers – the rule is the money should flow to the author, you should not be spending it!

        If, however, you just want to write it, and you don’t care about publication or are happy to self publish (and all the other jobs successful self publishing entails!), then you can just write it. You don’t need any kind of degree. You can just do it. Finding a group of people who are also writers who will act as your cheerleaders/beta readers/place to bounce ideas off is invaluable, and I’d recommend the Absolute Write forums as a way to find people like that if you can’t (or don’t want to!) go to in person groups locally. It can take a while to find your people, so you may need to try a few!

        1. Teapot Translator*

          I want to try it out. I have no idea if I have the patience for the research and the writing, so publishing seems far off to me. And I’m not an expert in the field.
          Thanks for the forum rec!

        2. Farragut*

          ! This !

          Everything up above.

          There are some smaller independent publishers that are reputable and don’t require an agent. These often are highly specialized in niche fields. Separating them from the vanity presses and scammers that call themselves “indie” can be tough.

  34. Neosmom*

    HOORAY! After all this time experiencing pandemic issues, my employer finally allowed me to order a plexiglass barrier for my 2nd floor lobby workstation. It arrived, looks great, does the needed job, and I feel better sitting in a lobby where visitors and co-workers alike forget to wear their masks in a mask-mandate city.

  35. HerdingCatsWouldBeEasier*

    Has anyone else been following the ‘Bad Art Friend’ story and all the fallout? I would be super curious to hear Alison’s take on the issues involved, since it turns out that at points in the saga the two women had a teacher/student and a coworker relationship, in addition to the issue of plagiarizing writing from a friend-acquaintance.

    I have to admit, as someone who was always the odd person out growing up, this whole mess plays into my adult nightmares: the fear that my coworkers are just tolerating my existence and secretly wish I’d get hit by a bus.

    2. Moira Rose*

      I tried to post a link but I think the spam collector swept it up. Try searching Twitter for “Dorland” and “Larson” from @moorehn. Her threads on this have been my North Star.

    3. pancakes*

      I haven’t been following it closely, but I read Artnet’s weekly legal column, and last week that was the focus. Some interesting links within. I’ll link to it in a separate reply.

      It sounds like you would really benefit from talking with a professional about your nightmares.

    5. Soup of the Day*

      The details in the Gawker article that this thread is discussing honestly changed my mind about the whole issue! I went from feeling that Dawn was insufferable and Sonya, while admittedly being pretty crappy about it, was understandably talking smack about a person who kind of deserved it. But now I feel like Sonya was looking for reasons to be malicious and gossipy.

      I still think that Dawn does not look great for her plagiarism crusade, and I don’t think that Sonya was in the wrong legally or artistically (once she removed the verbatim parts of the letter), but I am feeling slightly closer to Team Dawn after reading these clarifications. Someone can be a bit insufferable, but that doesn’t mean they deserve ridicule if there is an option to simply not engage. It was a mean thing to do.

      But I also want to push back on my own reaction there! Writers have no obligation to be nice in the pursuit of their art. I guess they just have to be prepared for the subjects of their work to be upset when it comes out.

      1. CTT*

        “Someone can be a bit insufferable, but that doesn’t mean they deserve ridicule if there is an option to simply not engage. It was a mean thing to do.”

        That’s really where I come down. This is awful of me, but I know a few people like Dawn who I have stayed friends with on social media because they overshare in that same way and I find it cringey but fascinating. But the energy involved in making fun of her over multiple emails takes it to a new level. And what’s so weird to me is that they spent all this time talking about her but Sonya wasn’t prepared at all for Dawn’s reaction.

      2. pancakes*

        I don’t agree that copying the letter verbatim was ok since she eventually removed it. The right time to make an ethical decision not to plagiarize is prior to publication, not after getting caught.

        1. Soup of the Day*

          No, I agree that the story in its initial form did contain plagiarized content. But it sounded like by the time she had submitted it to the festival, she had already changed those lines of the story (from my understanding).

          I think the way she went about it was crappy – gaslighting Dawn while making the changes on the side – but I don’t think it was fair for Dawn to make so many demands of an independent festival over the changed version of the story. Dawn can’t claim that the story is using her “material,” so to speak, if Sonya changed the wording of the letter completely. I’m not sure if it counts as plagiarism at that point, although she would have been in a much better situation if she’d just removed the letter altogether, or changed it to something less recognizable.

          1. pancakes*

            It’s hard to predict, and like I said I haven’t been following it super closely, but I think Sonya grievously injured her plagiarism defenses with the text message acknowledging that she copied the letter. “I’ve tried to change it but I can’t seem to—that letter was just too damn good.”

  36. Ferret*

    For anyone who wants to see a trash fire that got snuffed out before it could really get going search “skip the interview”

    Interviews are terrible! So instead let’s have candidates launch a crowdfunding campaign where they solicit funds from their colleagues in order to get the job

    2. LimeRoos*

      That is bonkers and thank you so much for sharing. I will be reading through some of the reddit threads during lunch :-D

  37. Wondering*

    In general in my industry as you advance you can either be in an individual contributor role or a manager role. I’ve always thought that I wanted to be a manager since I like managing projects, working with and mentoring people. In the past few years though I’ve realized that the jobs/projects I like best are ones where I’m sort of a subject matter expert, and working with a large team.

    For example, at one place I was the Lead Llama Hut Designer. I was working with the Llama Caretakers team to build a farm, and since hut designing is the most complicated part of building a Llama Farm, I became the default leader of the team. I did hands on work, but I also did a lot of project management and managed the other teams. It was a stressful job because of time constraints, but I definitely loved my position. I liked being able to work with other teams, hear their problems, and design technical solutions. It felt good to be a technical resource for other members of the team I did a good job at this too – the team was calmer and well-run compared to other similar farm building teams, and others remarked on this in various ways. For example, I know that people of various levels of technical ability felt comfortable working with and bringing up problems to me.

    I’ve seen people post here about being in crisis management or taking roles as a changemaker. That’s kind of the dynamic I like, but on a longer term basis. So do I really want to be an individual contributor? I always thought no because I would hate to be working by myself, and tbh, I love meetings. But I’m not sure if the work I like to do is exactly on the manager track either.

    1. AnotherAlison*

      Maybe I’m reading too much into it from the building and design references, but it sounds like you would like to be a project engineer, still doing technical stuff (unlike the PM) but also managing and coordinating multi-disciplinary solutions. When I think of individual contributor as a career path in the actual design and build world, I think about the 30 year experience person who knows everything about Llama Huts but can only consult with project teams on that because they are way too expensive to staff on a project. That does not sound like what you want. The standard path in my world would move you through the engineer and lower level individual contributor role to the PM role (or expert I.C. on the other track), and then you stay there a while taking on more complex projects, managing other PMs, or moving into other management roles. Sounds like you may rather stop 1 step before that and stay technical, on project teams, and doing some management. I think there is always a need for that role, but it’s kind of picking a specific point to stop moving directly up the ladder. I think there would be ways to grow with special projects, like developing a new tool or system or process, or coming in to rescue another lead whose project is on life support, but you always have to be aware of your place on the payscale vs. your title.

      1. Wondering*

        This is very helpful, thanks. If it came down to not doing technical stuff vs. not moving up the ladder, I would lose the technical stuff. You’re right that I don’t want to be the 30 year experience person.

  38. How to Proceed When Totally Checked Out*

    I have completely given up on my job, and I’m looking for a new one. Rationally, I know that at my current job I should proceed as if I won’t find a new one-advocate for myself, try to improve things, etc. But I’m just done. The organization has shown time and time again that it is unwilling to make the changes necessary for me to be successful in my role. (Basically, my role is to coach the struggling org through continuous improvement, but I have no actual authority and among those who do have authority, the willingness to make the changes necessary to improve is just not there.)

    I DREAD every check-in with my boss because, I just don’t care. I’m not willing to subject myself to conflict anymore in terms of saying “Director X needs to do Y but won’t” “Manager G lacks these basic competencies” etc. But I also can’t really say “things are going well” because they aren’t.

    Sometimes I just want to be honest with him-tell him to expect my departure because I find success in my role impossible. But I doubt that would benefit me in any way.

    1. ferrina*

      Find whatever way you need to keep on. I found it helped to adopt an amused resignation, and my bosses actually loved it (as long as it wasn’t directed at them). “Well, Project X is still delayed because we’re waiting on Y from Tobias, so, you know, the usual.” Said in a cheerful tone with a casual shrug.

      Telling them “expect my departure” won’t help (as you know). You don’t know how long the search will take, and you don’t want to get forced out before then. Besides, if you’ve been clearly and consistently communicating the issues and how they are impacting you (which I get the sense that you have been), then you leaving is a foreseeable conclusion that your boss should already be very aware of.

      In the meantime, do whatever you need to do to get by. Make a bingo board on your phone of goofy stuff that you might deal with today, and if you get a bingo, you get an ice cream sundae. Take notes as though you were going to screenwrite a sitcom/tragedy about the real life scenarios you are currently in. Whatever keeps you sane. Good luck!

    2. The New Wanderer*

      At my previous job I raised an issue multiple times that had a clearly identified source and straightforward but significant corrective path, and was just dismissed over and over again. It was handled nicely, always with leadership saying “it’s great that you’re raising this issue that we all know is an issue” so it didn’t wear me down that much. But it was still so disappointing to see this big conflict looming in the distance and no one with the authority was willing to do anything about it proactively. In fact, that clearly identified source got promoted (ugh).

      Since the change implementation part isn’t happening, it sounds like your main role is to identify the problems and recommend solutions. You’re essentially trying to help but you can’t make them change. Can you lean into that without necessarily caring what they do with the information (aka the “amused resignation” from ferrina’s advice? I don’t know what form the conflict is taking in the check-ins but assuming it’s not attacking you/your methods and is more general disinterest or pushback on what you’re saying, would it help if you just gave noncommittal responses and dropped the rope?

      You: “Director X needs to do Y but won’t”
      Boss: “Well that’s not going to change/it’s not really a problem/whatever dismissive comment”
      You: “I hear you.”

      You: “Manager G lacks these basic competencies”
      Boss: “No they don’t/there’s no budget for training/but G is a nice person/other unhelpful comment”
      You: “Okay”

      And save the honesty for your hopefully imminent departure. Good luck!

  39. feath*

    Halfway through my two week notice at my job and I keep feeling regrets about quitting for a new position elsewhere. Like, why couldn’t I just push through these “hard times” at my current place and see things get better? Is that some sort of failure that’ll carry through into this next job showing that I’m like…not capable?

    1. I'm just here for the cats!*

      That’s rough. I think you need to give yourself a break. It sounds like your job is hard. Needing to move to something else is not a failure. Its actually you listening to yourself and knowing what you can and cannot do.

      Not knowing about your work, I wonder if you have a bad boss or toxic work situation. Take a look at your workplace. Is anyone giving you a hard time about leaving? Does everyone have the thought of just muddle throuh

    2. Colette*

      You’re not responsible for pushing through hard times at your employer. It’s OK to move on.

      Hopefully once you stat the new job, these feelings will go away. If not, I’d suggest a session or two with a counsellor.

    3. James*

      It’s normal breakup concerns. They’ll fade in time. You’re looking at the past with rose-colored glasses; once you have more distance you’ll see it more clearly.

      Remember, this is stressful. Even if it’s for the best, it’s stressful. You need to give yourself room to feel that stress.

      And remember, it’s not a question of just “pushing through hard times”; it’s a question of doing what’s right for yourself. A job is a two-way street; if it’s not working out for one of you, you walk away.

      I’d also examine what your soon-to-be-former coworkers are saying. How much are they contributing to this feeling? Are they supportive, or are they doing things (even subtle ones) to say you’re leaving because you’re not good enough? If they’re the ones making you question your decision, you made the right one.

      1. feath*

        Direct coworkers don’t know yet, I’ll be telling them on Monday (HR’s been slow on telling me what protocols are…). Boss has been same as always, very neutral response when I told him too.

        1. ferrina*

          Thirding this! Feelings of panic and “But I can still go back!” are so, so normal. Push through them. You can do this!!

    5. A Beth*

      I’m two weeks ahead of you, and I was feeling the same concerns two weeks ago. Now I’ve got a week at the new job under my belt and I remember why I was so motivated to search and so excited to accept this job. It’s not going to be perfect but it’s going to help me grow personally and professionally.

      I also left OldJob because of “hard times” but once I realized that a lot of the hard parts predated covid I felt less bad about moving on. My boss & grandboss were aware of the problems and couldn’t fix them (no judgment! they weren’t easy fixes!) and it didn’t make sense for me to stay under the circumstances. I bet the same is true for you.

    6. Girasol*

      If you decided that you should really push through the hard times at your current job and declined the new job offer instead, you’d probably be just as sure that you’d done something wrong. You’re just at that second-guessing stage when nothing feels right. It will pass.

    7. SeaTurtleJamboree*

      I had this same thing when I changed jobs almost exactly a year ago. The feeling stuck around for a couple months but, as I started feeling more and more competent at my new position and more comfortable with my new team (I stayed within my organization), it started to go away. And now, a year on, the stories of how terrible the old job is have made me feel even better about leaving. Stick with the change, it doesn’t make you a failure. It’s a job- you don’t have to put up with the bad.

    8. Chilipepper attitude*

      I am about to give notice and it is more bittersweet than I expected (I so want to get out of here!). But I keep thinking, oh, I won’t be around to see how that goes. I am really surprised by my reaction. I think it is normal.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Giving notice is a huge pressure relief. All of the sudden things don’t seem as bad or whatever. There is a reason why you took the new job, even if that reason is muddy right now that reason still exists.

      There is also a piece of “the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know.” If we held on to this too tightly we never would have left kindergarten.

      And of course going to a new place can be daunting.

      My best thought is spend time preparing for the new place. What do you need to do? Sometimes I like new clothes. Other times I want to beef up what I know about Excel for example. Or you could just decide, “I know I will be tired the first week at the new place, so I am going to load my freezer with heat-and-eat meals to help myself.”

      For me, I had those thoughts of pushing through hard times myself. What happened in the end is that I pushed through a lot of crap. Subsequent employers thought I was a great worker. What I had actually done was push myself through some very hard situations and I kept minimizing how hard it was. The times that I thought I should tough it out, were actually indeed times to leave. I think it takes working for other companies to get a sense of how big the problems were at a previous place.

      Ya know how we have to set boundaries with friends and family? This is more of that boundary stuff- start thinking about what you are willing to do and what you are not willing to do at work. If you have boundaries it will help you through times like this.
      My boundaries include:
      No ladders
      No covering for people’s mistakes/lies
      No working off the clock (or beyond the time frame set for a salaried job)

      These are just some basic examples, so you can start your list of what you will not tolerate. Articulating these limits is worth the work it takes to find and name them.

  40. I'm just here for the cats!*

    Does anyone have any suggestions for things to do at work when you are completely bored (besides reading AAM!)
    I work at the front desk and need to greet students and answer phones. there are other tasks that I complete throughout the day. Lately I am between projects and I am absolutely bored.

    Keep in mind I cannot be listening to a podcast or class that would require headphones. any suggestions?

    1. Taura*

      Can you read ebooks or similar? Or if writing things down is not out of the ordinary, write your own short stories/articles/fanfic? I think your options are more confined if you need to “look busy” than they are if you just need to be readily available.

      1. Eleanor Shellstrop*

        THIS. Ebooks that were available through my local library website were my lifesavers when I was a receptionist! The websites usually looked “work-ish” enough that it wouldn’t throw up any red flags to someone walking by and I still managed to look reasonably busy.

    2. Gracely*

      Do you like writing? Even if you can’t do it on a computer, you could try handwriting in a notebook.
      Would knitting or crocheting be a possibility? I know sometimes it isn’t because people think it looks like you’re not working, but if you can, that’s a good way to occupy yourself when you’re stuck to a desk.

    3. The Rural Juror*

      I also cannot put in headphones a lot of the time, but I’ve been able to login to Duolingo and go through Spanish lessons while skipping the part where I need to listen or speak back to the program. Every once in a while I’ll slip in an earbud for a second and listen to the pronunciation, but mostly I’ve been learning by reading. I may have to repeat a few lessons because I should be listening, but I can go back and do them again (they’re very short!). My reading comprehension has definitely improved.

    4. Mary*

      My suggestion would be to get AirPods Pro, have one earbud in, and conceal that as needed. Unless you have some sort of logistical issue, like already wearing a headset that covers both ears.

    5. Ferret*

      For a while at my last job I had zero work and used to do zooniverse projects during the day which I found fairly satisfying – you can help identify wildlife for an ecology project, or transcribing old weather records that are being used to monitor climate change and it doesn’t look dodgy if someone happens to get a glimpse of your screen!

    6. Former Young Lady*

      During a major lull last winter, I spent some time every day on Seterra memorizing the location of each country in Africa.

      Now that I mention it, it’s probably time to start brushing up on my geography again.

      1. Eleanor Shellstrop*

        I love this. When I was in college and worked at the front desk of the registrar’s office during the summer, I memorized every country in the world using that huge Sporcle quiz. Always useful to brush up on geography!

    7. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Libraries have lots of free books and you can get the overdrive app for your phone or read in a web browser. So maybe read a book? Could be learning, could be literary fiction, could be terrible brain candy fiction. Pick your pleasure.

    8. I'm just here for the cats!*

      Thanks all for such lovely suggestions.

      I don’t know why I didn’t think of writing. NANOWRIMO (national novel writing month is November) is just around the corner so maybe I will bring in one of my many unused moleskin journals and use some time to write, or at least plot and outline!

      I don’t feel comfortable reading on my kindle, as it may look unprofessional (I don’t think the people in my department would care but we get lots of people from other areas on campus who might have something to say. Academic politics!)
      We are getting some books soon for our department, so I might check some of those out during slow times.

      I might try and work on some excel stuff. If you’ve got suggestions for places to go to learn excel that is very simple language It would be appreciated!

      :)

    9. Teapot Wrangler*

      Futurelearn or other online courses – just use the transcript function if you can’t watch videos etc.
      Read books on project gutenberg
      Overdrive or similar online services for e-books via your local library

  41. No Tribble At All*

    Y’all, if you interview someone and decide not to go with them, PLEASE let that person know. Found out that I didn’t get a job I interviewed for…. when I saw it re-posted on Linkedin. I did 4 hours of interview with 4 different people; the whole company is only 23 people, so that’s a pretty large percent of them, but not ONE of them thought I was worth the time to send a 30 second email “sorry, we’re looking for someone with more experience in X, thanks for applying!” I don’t know what I did wrong.

    A small, petty part of me wants to re-apply for the re-posted job, but the rest of me knows it’s time to move on. And you know what? I wouldn’t send that job opening to anyone else I know.

    I was so sad, because 2/3 of the company founders are women, and that’s so rare for a tech company!

    1. Elenna*

      For what it’s worth, ghosting like this is pretty common. It definitely sucks and it’s awful and interviewers shouldn’t do it, but it’s common enough that you’ll probably see it multiple times. Doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!*

      That really sucks! I’m sorry they did this to you. But it might not have been on purpose. Being that there were some many people involved that they all thought that the other person reached out.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      Ugh, this sucks. And no, it does not make it better if they send out a rejection email five months later.

      I hope you get a very excellent job and right after you start, the ghost company reaches out so you can say, “Sorry, I already accepted a fantastic offer!”

  42. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    Last week I had a nightmare where my boss was pressured to fired me because someone took a picture of me riding my bike on the sidewalk instead of the cobblestone street and tagged the company on social media.
    Has anyone faced something similar? I laughed it off, but I know is normal nowadays.

    2. Doctor is In*

      It is hard to throw off bad dreams! I am a physician and had a nightmare about all my patients having metastatic cancer.

      1. Dr. Nurse*

        I’m a nurse, and I have nightmares that I have patients on multiple floors of the hospital and can’t give them their antibiotics on time.

        1. You get a pen and you get a pen*

          Your nightmares are now going to fuel MY nightmares this weekend!! And I am not even in the healthcare industry!!!!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I had a dream one time when working at OldExjob where Owner made us work all night and it was cold in the office so I put a blanket over myself and slept in my desk chair for a few hours. When I woke up in the dream, Owner was standing there in his white shirt and tie with his hair all sticking up and said, “Rise and shine! Time to go to work!”

      I told a work friend and they were like, “Don’t give him any ideas!”

    4. Chaordic One*

      Although most of the employees at my job have been working from home for over a year now, there are constant rumors that we are about to be called back to the office at any time. My employer has been on a bit of hiring spree lately though, and there are also rumors that if they called everyone back there wouldn’t be anywhere to put them all.

      I had a dream where we are all called back to work and there wasn’t room for everyone inside the building, so they set up our desks and and phones and computers in rows outside of the building on the lawn surrounding front part of the building, but facing the building with our backs to the street. I was answering the phone and speaking with a customer when all of a sudden, a gigantic SUV spun out-of-control from the street and crashed into the rows of desks behind me. And then I woke up with a start!

    5. theguvnah*

      “i know is normal nowadays”

      No it is not. Getting fired for something like that is not normal and you sound like you’re exaggerating real issues – like harming people and being actively discriminatory online affecting your employment – to make a point.

  43. BlueDijon*

    I’m wondering how y’all would respond to these types of comments. Basically, any time my manager and I talk about how stressed we are and I mention how burned out we all are (my hair is literally shedding due to stress, and I have been telling her I am burnt out for 12 months at this point), her response is “well, as bad as we have it, it’s as bad or worse elsewhere.” I have tried to push back a bit saying, well, that can’t be the case because I know people who are actually happy in their jobs (paraphrasing) but she basically just dismisses it.

    To me, this is just giving up on being able to make any changes, and just accepting misery. I am planning on looking for a new job once our busy period slows down, and don’t really think it’s worth it to be trying to change her mind, but also don’t want to just agree because that’s just so… claustrophobic of a thought is the best way I have to describe it.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      “I’m not entering the Pain Olympics. Sure, someone always has it worse. But that doesn’t mean this isn’t bad. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to change things.”

      1. irene adler*

        Nice one!
        This response calls out the very thing the boss is trying to deflect: she doesn’t want to DO anything to improve the situation. She might not like that though.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Yes, someone else has it worse, but that does not change the fact that your stress is causing you *noticeable physical harm.* However, your boss sucks and doesn’t want to hear it, because then your boss would actually have to do something.
      Don’t wait for the busy period to slow down to start job search. Your boss does not care how much this job is hurting you.
      Stop engaging in this kind of talk with your boss, because it’s not helping you. If your boss starts the talk, go “grey rock” as much as you can — respond as neutrally and as boring and flat as you can, and then change the subject as quickly as you can. Don’t vent to your boss, since your boss is dismissive, and make it unsatisfying for your boss to vent to you.

    3. The Smiling Pug*

      Yikes. I’m sorry that your manager responds that way. Personally, I wouldn’t wait until after the busy season to start job searching.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          “I can’t believe you’re leaving me during the busy season! That’s just awful!”

          “Well, a lot of people have it worse, so…”

          1. BlueDijon*

            Lol at this and the Pain Olympics.

            Yeah I would try to leave earlier but I know I would like them to give me a reference, and I’m currently in higher ed (but hoping to leave!) which is an industry of people who tend to Take Things Personally, so I’m just gonna stick it out for a few months. But these responses have been really helpful in terms of fading out of engaging in these conversations, which I appreciate.

            I mean we’re swamped, so I’m just gonna have no time for any non-work questions and comments I guess…

            1. Seeking Second Childhood*

              It takes time to get your ducks in a row before you start sending out the resume. There’s prep you could start sooner–gather lists of successes for resume bulletpoints from your email archive, for example. Good luck!

    4. Zona the Great*

      To me this is a sign to immediately start looking and you can pretty much bet the next job will be much better. Any time I’ve had people say everything sucks everywhere, it’s them.

      1. banoffee pie*

        ‘It’s as bad or worse elsewhere’. That is such bull. She just said that off the top of her head; I’m sure there are plenty of places that are better!

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Probably not the best choice of words on her part, but really, what can she do about all the problems? Even if the problems are fixable, it would probably take months to implement the new plans.

      I have been on the receiving end with stressed people. I said, “This is what we have until something better comes along.” Meaning that we all job hunt from time to time. They understood my meaning because of additional context that I am not including here.

      I am not clear on how getting her to see that people are actually happy at their jobs else where is any kind of a win for you and your cohorts. Not trying to be a wise-guy here. Even if she agrees with you what have you gained? Why do you need her to see that it’s better else where? What would be a better answer from her?

      She is basically telling you that she has no power/authority/resources to fix all that is wrong here.

      I had a boss who believed our h3ll hole was normal. We act in alignment with our beliefs. She never looked for other work. After a bit she confided that she sincerely believed she could not hold down a job anywhere else. (That actually made sense with the attitude she was using. No one else would hire that attitude.)

      I was the opposite. I felt there was something better out there. Of course she put me down for my optimism- as that was part of her luggage she carried through life.

      The bottom line is I had to ask myself, “Why am I working so hard to save her, when she does not want to be rescued?” I realized I was The One with the insight to know to look for better and I needed to act on that insight.

      My strongly worded advice (because I have BTDT) is to stop making up reasons not to job hunt and start your job hunt this weekend. It does not matter that they are busy. It does not matter that everyone is tired. None of these things are yours to personally solve. It is up to you to put your own oxygen mask on first. And you can do this. You can find something better. You deserve it.

      1. BlueDijon*

        Thank you! Yeah I get that, and empathize, and totally agree that it may not be what I want to do to get her to agree – I just don’t know how to respond without agreeing myself! I really like how you put that – part of her luggage she was carrying through life, that is very helpful reframing.

        I appreciate your perspective – and I hadn’t really been categorizing the pre-applying work of the job search as the job search, but as you and others have pointed out that’s absolutely part of it. Thank you!!

  44. Gracie*

    I had final interview a couple of weeks ago. I didn’t get the job, because the department head thought my qualifications didn’t exactly match what they were looking for.

    Last week they called me and asked me to put together a presentation explaining my niche degree and how it could support another department. They don’t have a specific position/title for the job, so it seems like they’ll create a position specifically for this.

    They gave an overview of what they want out of the position. Frankly, it sounds right up my alley. It’ll allow me to use the skills I gained from college, unlike my current job.

    The problem is that the position sounds like a huge step up in responsibility, and I’m not sure if I’m competent enough for it. I’ve only been in the workforce for 3 years, and only as team member, not team lead or manager.

    I’ll go to the interview, because for me it’s an opportunity to practice. But if they offer me the job, what questions should I be asking before deciding to take it or not? And what other things should I take into consideration?

    1. JB*

      You can ask them directly about the things you’re concerned about. Ex. ‘It sounds like this position will involve managing a team. As you know, I don’t have any supervisory experience; what kind of support would be available to me as a new manager?’

      You should be able to get a good sense from their answer whether they’re prepared to train you on the parts that you don’t know, or if they’re really looking for someone they can just leave to their own devices.

    2. Designer*

      I would ask about an actual list of job requirements. And if you feel like you would be in over your head, the expectations about getting that position into full working order (do they expect it to take 1 month, 3 months, more?) and possible training for what you might be lacking if they do want to make this position for you. Will the salary match the workload, and as it’s a new position, what options are there for advancement. Do they see this growing into it’s own department where eventually you’ll be higher people under you?

      I hope that helps!

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Ask a lot of questions about their goals and expectations for the new position and what resources they will provide to make the position successful. I’ve found that sometimes when a company creates a completely new position, they haven’t really thought through the nuts and bolts — someone just has an idea that this would be…vaguely good to have. I’m not trying to burst your bubble, but they’re sort of making you an unpaid consultant on why their business needs this; and there’s no guarantee that they’ll hire you even if they ultimately create the position.

    4. Peter*

      Firstly, congratulations, this sounds like you have a great opportunity to create a role that suits you.

      Given your concern, remember this is a new role so there’s a way to get it set up so that you’re not being asked to step completely into a new manager position if you’re not ready. The point is that someone should be managing you and that person should be able to guide you into the initial requirements.

      Based on what I understand from your comment, I’d expect a new role with someone with 3 years experience to start by reporting to the other department head, but if you’re successful and the company grows eventually you might have your own department and people working directly for you.

      My concern would be balancing the workload so I suggest asking how you make sure that your new boss will help you grow the role into a useful and productive one without you getting overwhelmed by being expected to work miracles.

  45. Skeeder Jones*

    Let’s talk acronyms! I always get a laugh out of some of the team/process/system acronyms at my work. Here’s a few: NIRDS (National Integration Regulatory and Data Services
    the BIG Team (Business Integration and Governance)
    TIGR (I actually don’t remember what this one stands for though there’s a lot of repetition here and I think Integration, Governance and Regulatory are the IGR)
    and this morning I had an email talking about “PLOT” (Policy and Legislative Oversight and Tracking)

    What are some of yours?

    1. Daffodilly*

      I always laugh when people use POS for “point of sale” because it meant something VERY different when I first learned it!

    2. Taura*

      MISO – I forget what it stands for, but apparently it’s pronounced “my-soh” and my first thought is always “mee-soh! Mmm, soup!”
      MAGE – Model and Graphics Editor. They leaned into this one, the program icon is a little wizard casting a spell.

    3. James*

      We have two, both COC. It’s either constituent/contaminant of concern (depending on how bad we want it to sound), or chain of custody. Very confusing when you get an email saying “I need the COCs for this project”!

    4. Ali G*

      The one that always gets a double take out of me is BLM. No, not what you are thinking: Bureau of Land Management lol.
      The last few years have been interesting. I’ll come home from work with my version of BLM on the brain and then the news is talking about BLM and I am like what happened at the BLM??? Oh wait, BLM not THE BLM.

      1. Chaordic One*

        As someone who has lived in rural parts of the country, this one always gets to me too, and I have to deliberately stop and think about the context in which they are speaking. There are lots of opinions, both pro and con, about both BLMs.

    5. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      There is a tech school in my region called UTI — Universal Technical Institute.

    6. Well*

      We have a new one: BS. It stands for brand spotlight but every time some mentions “we have the Llama company BS” it makes me chuckle.

    8. Lady_Lessa*

      One of my favorites is ACS which could be “American Chemical Society” or “American Cancer Society”.

    9. CTT*

      I’m a finance attorney and often have to deal with Deposit Account Control Agreements, or DACAs. The immigration debates of the last decade have been weird for me (if only because banks get equally passionate about their DACAs as people do about immigration).

    11. Hotdog not dog*

      Our branch managers are all referred to as BM. I will give credit for accuracy in many cases.

    12. Hlao-roo*

      I had an internship with the federal government a while ago, and that’s where I saw these great acronyms:

      BASH: Bird Aircraft Strike Hazard
      MEOW: Maximum Envelopes Of Water
      MOM: Maximum Of MEOWs

    13. ReallyAnonymous*

      My org just launched a new short-term disability plan, which they insist on calling the STD Plan.

    14. KoiFeeder*

      My undergrad had Student Services, which handled accommodations and other disability services.

      Given that they were not the greatest, that acronym got mileage. It got worse after they changed the acronym and started penalizing people for continuing to call it student services, though- by the time I graduated, there were folks who would refer to having to submit that semester’s accommodation paperwork as “going down to Spiegelgrund for the assessment.”

    16. stornry*

      when we were developing our supervisory training, I lobbied to have it call the Basics of Supervision Series — BOSS training — but they didn’t go for it.

    17. Caboose*

      There’s a way of compressing all the data and information from one database to move it into another, and it’s a BACPAC file.

    21. Flower necklace*

      I teach at the high school level, in a state where the end-of-year tests are called SOLs. SOL was a term that my mom used when I was growing up. It didn’t have anything to do with standardized testing when she said it.

    22. SnappinTerrapin*

      IRMA: Immediately Recognizable Military Acronym.

      That was popular at MCB Quantico back in the 70s.

    24. Bagpuss*

      I think they have since changed but there was a period when those convicted of relatively minor crimes here might get a Community Rehabilitation And Punishment order from the courts…

    25. small town*

      I’m in healthcare. We have a local TV station who’s call sign is HSV. Which to me means herpes simplex virus.
      Thanks for this thread!

    26. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I can’t give the actual acronym because it’s a product name. Suffice it to say it is PERFECT product name…in English. But they are selling it internationally without a name change. And translated for our most common non English customers, the acronym sounds NSFW!

  46. Daffodilly*

    Setting up a permanent WFH setup, and I want a docking station or USB hub for my Windows laptop. Looking around and they all have *really* short cords between the laptop and the hub/docking station. Like 6 inches. And they are built into the device so you can’t swap for a longer one.
    Anyone have a recommendation for one that has an HDMI port, at least 6 USB data ports, and an SD card slot and has a cable at least 12-18 inches long?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Depending on the connector port — the USB-C hub I use for my MacBook has only a 6″ cord, and I just put a three-foot USB extension cable between it and the laptop. It doesn’t have any trouble carrying through, and I use mine for power, HDMI and several USB devices.

    3. Brett*

      I assume you are talking only about hubs and not docking stations, since docking stations normally physically attach to the laptop anyway. The problem with hubs is they they are normally powered off the USB port and have serious power issues in the first place. The longer the cable, the more power issues they have; so you probably won’t find any with long cables.

      That’s a long way of saying that you will have to buy a powered hub for a long cord, like this:
      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DW646GY/
      (But that one doesn’t have HDMI, and I am not sure you will find one both with HDMI and a long cord.)

    4. Brett*

      My other response has not posted yet, but quick research indicates that you are either going to have to go the powered KVM route ($100+) or the powered USB-C route, assuming you have USB-C ports on your windows laptop. Just using a USB extender with a standard non-USB-C hub is probably going to lead to power issues that will give you screen blinking and an early death of the hub.

      1. Daffodilly*

        Powered is fine. Willing to spend up to about $200 for a good one.
        The ones I’ve looked at with short cords ARE powered USB-C connected.

  47. Albeira Dawn*

    Does anyone write about their field on the side? I think I’d like to start pitching articles about my fairly technical field to trade magazines and other publications, and I’d be curious to hear any advice or experiences.

    1. Well*

      I’m an editor in a niche industry. Introduce yourself via email, to those publications. We write our articles in house but are always looking for columnists and guest commentary. Other pubs may very well accept articles. If you need to build name recognition you could also pitch yourself as an SME willing to comment on the record for articles.

  48. Justin*

    So on the ongoing “returning to office, adjusting to ADHD diagnosis” tip:

    Office continues to be mostly dull, which is allowing me to really feel out what does and doesn’t work for me. As I learn more about myself and my brain (and the comparison to how I have always felt in office spaces), I’m taking really concrete steps to make what is still not an ideal job situation for me into the best I can.

    I already mentioned that I asked to move desks (it’s still an open office nonsense thing, which, boo), and that has really helped address the excessive visual stimuli I had always had – I was facing a hallway which made it so I basically had to look at/greet everyone who entered the office. All day long. Every time someone went to the pantry or the bathroom. It was not good for my focus.

    I also bought over the ear headphones, so hearing whispers or conversations didn’t distract me. I also have ordered some earplugs that are supposed to be good for neurodivergent folks and just… turn down the volume on the background noise, so we’ll see about that.

    But my newest thing is realizing that, since it’s getting colder (eventually), I was about to pull my button-downs out of the closet, and I realized that I mostly hate them. I’ve been wearing simple, brightly-colored long-sleeved shirt/sweaters with simple and brightly-colored slacks (I like colors). And getting collars and tucking in really causes tactile issues for me. I worry how it sits, I pull the shirts in and out, and basically I just end up fussing with my clothes all day, and I didn’t even realize this until I didn’t have to do it for a long time.

    So I ordered some new simple long-sleeved shirts, which I’ll also plan to wear for an academic presentation I’m giving in person soon. Yeah, some folks may think I’m “dressed down” (I’m not, but some folks are conservative), but I’m working really hard on trying to create a work environment that is as comfortable as possible until I can get into a job where I can really bring my whole self to work without having to put so much effort in (and where collars aren’t the norm).

    I will keep a few for a funeral/wedding/etc. situation. But this process of discovering how to really support myself has been fascinating and revelatory. I wish it hadn’t taken me this long because I’d’ve been a better worker all these years had I known. But I’ve got however many decades left and it’s good to know what I need.

    1. ecnaseener*

      That’s great! Keep focusing on what works well for your brain even if it’s different from what the average person prefers. (You will find that this changes over time, as you get used to different environments and as your symptoms wax and wane from other factors in your life. Stay open.)

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      HI Justin, There’s something more common in women’s wear than men’s — look at false collars. They have the unfortunate common name of “dickeys’. Basically it’s the bit that is visible under a v-neck, often with a connector to hold it in place. Might let you LOOK like you’re wearing the monkey suit under your sweater without the distraction.
      Formal wear has a detachable cuffs, but they seem to need shirt sleeves to hold them, so you’d have to figure out if it’s possible to retrofit a long-sleeved tshirt.

  49. ScroogeMcDuck*

    How do you get rid of/ deal with forced socialisation at work? I love most aspects of my job, but I’m having trouble with a new social requirement that has come up. My small team of remote individual contributors has monthly get-to-know you mandatory virtual lunches. These started as professional development meetings, but now that we’re running out of topics, these lunches have turned into a social hour, with questions about family life and hobbies, habits and backgrounds. I truly hate these meetings. I don’t want to talk about my personal life with my teammates, and I don’t want to discuss recipes or babies or any of the 37474 icebreaker topics people come up with. I’m pleasant and polite with all my coworkers and I have genuine, warm relationships with some of them, but I really hate this kind of forced socialisation with people I don’t really know – it disrupts my concentration and ramps up my social anxiety. My question is: is there a way to push back on these mandatory lunches without being rude? Or, if there isn’t a way to push back, does anyone have any advice on making the experience more tolerable?

    1. banoffee pie*

      I’m not sure how to push back, but if you decide to go, you can sometimes get off with talking very little about your life/ personal stuff. This is a bit sneaky but you could try to get one of the ‘talkers’ going and just let them get on with it, say hmmm every now and then etc. Or say a little about yourself and then ‘what about you?’ I’m sure you know that old chestnut. If it’s virtual you can tune out a bit and they may not even notice. You can plead camera problems at times, etc. I’ve noticed people without social anxiety aren’t neccessarily any better with people, they just don’t even notice when they’re pissing everybody off, so that’s something to remember too :)

    2. RagingADHD*

      If you’ve run out of learning topics, I think it’s appropriate to ask the organizer / point person about that.

      “Hey, the lunch and learn meetings were helpful but we don’t seem to have any learning topics anymore. There’s only so much personal bonding one can do remotely, after all. Does it still make sense to have these meetings be mandatory if we’re just chatting?”

    3. Wordybird*

      We have mandatory social lunches at my job since we’re all remote. We are a small team, and there are at least 2 coworkers who only share when directly asked to do so but they are generally smiling/laughing and seem to be engaged when others are talking so maybe you could try that? You could also write down a couple of things ahead of time that are fairly generic — spent time with family, read a book, etc. — if you’re forced to share that don’t really share anything all that personal with the group but seems like it.

      In the past, we have attempted to volun-tell someone that they are the lunch coordinator and need to come up with topics/questions to discuss. We’ve had mixed results with this technique.

    4. WellRed*

      If they are monthly I think it may behoove you to attend but not overthink your sharing participation. Let others blather in while you half listen. If you can dodge every other month or so with a vague reason, go for it.

    5. Anony*

      Could you propose additional professional development-related topics to address that would be enriching? Or another activity related to work so that it doesn’t have to get as personal. Watch a TED talk and discuss it over lunch, discuss a news article related to your field, something along those lines? I think you could say to your supervisor that you felt the professional development opportunities were more engaging than just chatting and if they could bring that back.

    6. Soft skills are vital skills*

      Working with other human beings is an important workplace skill that affects your ability to create work product. Learn to give bland and polite answers to social questions (e.g. “Oh, Thanksgiving was great! So much pie, mmm” or “Just took it easy this weekend, nice to have some time to relax”) if sharing about your personal life makes you uncomfortable.

  50. JB*

    Can I get some stim toy or stim jewelry recommendations?

    I’m autistic. When I get heavily focused on my work, my hands stim whether I want them to or not. I recently started a new job that I love, but it involves a LOT of heavy focus and it’s becoming a problem – I’m basically beating up my hands. (Twisting my fingers, pinching my skin, repeatedly cracking my knuckles, etc.) I step away for a break after an hour of work and my hands hurt.

    Here’s what I think I need:
    -Manual manipulation (not a chewable toy)
    -Won’t make noise (I work in the office, and everyone here is VERY quiet, I don’t want to break anyone else’s focus)
    -Professional-looking (not brightly colored)
    -Durable – based on what I’m doing to my hands I expect it will see a lot of ‘abuse’, I’d rather spend more on something that will take a long time to wear out.

    I’ve never had an actual fidget toy before and I really don’t know where to look, all of my searches are bringing up either brightly colored children’s toys or fidget putty. I do enjoy putty but I feel like it would get gross very quickly so I don’t think that’s what I want.

    I’m open to the idea of a fidget ring, but I have no idea where to buy a good one, if there are better or worse options, etc. I’m just kind of vaguely aware that they exist. Any help, suggestions, personal experiences?

    1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I have a gray Faber-Castell kneadable eraser (so it’s actually useful for work sometimes) but I use it more as a fidget putty. It doesn’t get gross to me.

      1. JB*

        Now that’s an idea…I think I may already have a kneadable Faber-Castell at home. I might start by hunting that up. Thank you!

    2. ecnaseener*

      I got a cheap spinner ring on Amazon, under $10, and I love it. (Actually, I’ve bought similar ones several times because I keep losing them after taking them off in public bathrooms…) I like the “rainbow” ones but if you want plain silver or something they make those too. Blue Palm Jewelry is one brand that has them available. I haven’t seen that any brand is better than another.

    3. not a doctor*

      I bought a fidget necklace on Etsy that I love (and don’t use enough, although that’s mostly because I’m WFH). It’s a big hoop on a chain with a little bead at the bottom that I can spin between my fingers or move around on the hoop.

    4. You get a pen and you get a pen*

      I have a bunch of soft, squeezable stress balls on my desk. They make no sounds and take a beating.

      1. JB*

        My track record with stress balls is not great, unfortunately. The soft ones I often end up tearing apart (like ripping pieces out of them) because I guess the squeeze is not substantial enough for me; I love the harder ones that are filled with beads, but every one that I’ve had in the past I’ve managed to rupture within a day or so.

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I was kneading blu-tac until I realized how gross that was making my fingers and desk (blue bits everywhere) and it was driving my husband crazy because I loved to see how big of a popping sound I could make. Then we went on vacation and I found a tiny tin of Thinking Putty and havent looked back. I know you mentioned being concerned about putty above, but this one doesn’t get gross or pick up nastiness off the desk like crumbs, or make my fingers sticky or ew. And it still crackles a little bit, but not too loud. Yesterday I think it was worked a good three hours while I was doing some deep thinking – popped it back in its tin and it was fresh as a daisy today.

      The putty is subtle and I can play with it under the desk or to the side of the screen – I have to do something with my hands while I think and that includes in meetings (before this it was doodling) so its a bit easier to roll a snake or make a cube while talking and people can’t see what I am actually up to.

    6. Fidgeter*

      I often use one of those basic fidget cubes – I found one that’s printed in wood grain with black buttons/knobs. Most of the sides don’t make noise, and most of them have held up for a long time. I hadn’t heard of a fidget ring before, but I fidget with my regular jewelry: a silver ring I’ve had since high school, and a necklace I modified a bit to make more sturdy.

      I also found out that doodling on my notepad helps me a lot, it looks like I’m taking notes in meetings (and I am! I doodle between writing), and it doesn’t need extra items, because I basically always have a pen and paper. Also, rubber bands are great for me, stretching them and looping them over a bunch of fingers to pull on (not cutting off circulation), and I can use one or both hands.

      I’m interested to see what other people use as a fidget.

    7. braindump*

      I have an infinity cube – it has the potential to be loud, but my patterns of moving it have become such a habit that I can do it quietly and nobody knows I use it at work. They come in many colors including plain black.

    8. I heart Paul Buchman*

      It might not be the right motion for you but I like fiddling with a variety of bulldog clips. I squeeze them open and closed. The big ones take a little force and they are office supplies so not unprofessional on your desk.

      1. JB*

        Ahh I do do this now, but it’s part of the problem; I usually end up clipping them onto my fingers, etc.

        I think part of the issue is that I am less of a ‘movement’ stimmer and more of a ‘pressure/sensation’ stimmer.

    10. Quandong*

      You might find a few things to try from Stimtastic dot co
      I’ve bought spinning rings and different fidgets from there and have been really happy with them.

      If you want to try a very durable putty, search for the type used for hand therapy. The texture is a little slippery compared with blue tac. The soft or medium-soft would be best to try first (firm theraputty is for intense therapy, very tiring to use for fidgeting).

    11. the cat's ass*

      greek worry beads! I have a set on a chain and they are silent except for a little clicking sound that only i can hear.

  51. Designer*

    What are people’s thoughts about companies that offer a huge pay range? I’m new to freelancing, and trying to network with more companies, but a lot of companies don’t seem to know what they want to pay for a freelancer. I’m seeing postings of $15 – $30, which if was salary would be close to $30K – 60K, which is a huge difference. Most salary positions keep the range around $10K.

    Are these companies just trying to get the cheapest out there, but want more qualified people to apply? Are they even worth applying to if I’m on the higher end of the pay range? Most of the job descriptions seem to apply to the higher end (wanting 3-5 years experience, rather than entry level jobs). Or are they not sure what they are looking for, and just trying to see who will apply?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I tend to think that the huge pay range telegraphs they do not know what they want. And I tend to believe that they very seldom, okay never, pay the upper end of the range.

      1. WellRed*

        Agreed. I’d also say it’s probably more helpful NOT to translate unit into FT salary terms as I think that’s sort of apples and oranges.

        1. WellRed*

          To be more helpful: I agree they may not know what the hell they want but at $15 they are looking for someone to write, at $30 they are looking for an subject matter expert who can also write. Where do you fit on that spectrum?

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I’m not a freelancer, nor am I in HR, so I’m just a random internet stranger with a hypothesis:

      Are these companies posting for a particular project? Or are they building an internal database of freelancers they can draw on for a range of projects? As in, some of their simpler projects would be for someone at the $15 end of the range and for a more ambitious project, the company would interview/ask for proposals from someone who they think is at the $30 side.

  52. Firm Believer*

    My best employee has still not received a vaccination and clearly has no intention too. This means she can’t travel (not that we’re doing much of that right now), can’t come back to the office which we are planning to do part time and can’t attend work functions and dinners as she lives in a city that requires proof of vaccination to eat out etc…I’m at a loss. I want to talk to her about it but I’m not sure how. I’m certainly not going to convince her at this point if the news hasn’t. How are others navigating this. If she was a low performer it would be a lot easier but she is fantastic at her job.

    1. Mary*

      I would take a hard look at whether the things you’re describing are essential functions of the job, or would pose an undue hardship on the business if the worker was unable to fulfill them. If they are…then she’s not your best employee anymore. If you have a conversation with her then I would frame everything in terms of the position. “This position requires that the person in it do X Y Z” and “We really need you to A but you have B and C restrictions,” etc.

      1. Firm Believer*

        They aren’t necessarily an issue now but as the pandemic lightens they will be. Part of me wants to ask her why she’s choosing not to get vaccinated but I don’t want to be inappropriate. And right now I don’t want her leaving the company.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      If she can’t do certain things, does that put an extra burden on other employees? If it does, that’s the problem that needs to be addressed. If not … how fantastic is she at her job? You may be able to accommodate her working remotely for now. What happens once travel is more of a thing, but she still can’t travel? In this case, the conversation may need to be we can make this work for *now,* but at some point, she’ll need to make a choice to get vaccinated or be let go.

      1. Firm Believer*

        It doesn’t really put an extra burden on them no. What I’m more concerned about is her missing out on managing her team, building relationships and meeting with clients. But yes, I think letting her know it’s not a good thing is a good direction.

    3. Anonosaurus*

      I disagree that you have no chance of convincing her. If you can explain the specific consequences of her decision for her job, she may have a different take. But that means you need to clarify those consequences for yourself first. It’s unclear to me whether you are able to allow her to continue working in a role which mandates certain tasks she can no longer undertake? What is the legal position in your jurisdiction as regards vaccine mandates and grounds for dismissal? I’m not suggesting you threaten to fire her as a way of pressuring her to be vaxed but you both need to be clear on where her decision leaves her in terms of ability to perform job duties. The fact she is a high performer means this sucks more than if she was useless, but to me it doesn’t change the basic calculus.

      1. Firm Believer*

        I think I need to suck it up and have the conversation. I’m pretty confident I wouldn’t need to fire her. If she new her job would be impacted she could very easily go some place else.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      That’s tough. How critical is travel to her role and the team?

      I have a colleague who refuses to be vaccinated and plans to work from home forever. For now that’s fine, but when travel resumes for us, I and others will need her to attend client meetings that in some cases will have to be done in person. I won’t travel with an unvaccinated person and our company won’t allow it at this point. I imagine my colleague will, at some point, lose her job over it. Does your employee know it’s a sticking point?

      Honestly in this situation I would loop in HR and discuss how to approach vaccination policy with someone whose role requires travel. My company has guidelines– maybe yours does too?

      1. Firm Believer*

        It’s not critical right now but it could be in the future. She’s aware that I take the vaccine seriously and I’m sure she’s wondering what’s going to happen to her but she also knows how much I value her. I don’t want others to resent her for continuing full time WFH when they are coming to the office. We are in the process of determining guidelines. Before I expected non vaccinated people to wear masks and return like everyone else but now I’m leaning towards that you must be vaccinated in order to return.

    6. Mockingjay*

      Before talking to your employee, does your company have a vaccine policy – any guidance at all?

      If not, have a discussion with management: “how do we handle unvaxxed employees whose duties include travel and work functions in areas that require vaccination and/or manage a team in person?” This needs to be determined at a corporate level before you talk to her.

      It’s not the company’s or your role to convince her to get vaccinated. What you need to solve is whether her unvaccinated status affects her ability to do her job or parts of her job, or risks the health/safety of other employees, and if so, what steps must be taken: reassigned, required to vax, remote work, PIP, fired, etc.

      1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        This. If you don’t have a vaccine policy, before you speak to her about it, you should definitely address this as a policy lapse with the Powers That Be in your company. Once a policy is in place for everyone, then you address it with individual employees that are out of compliance. To me, this particular scenario is similar to having an unwritten dress code that you think is obvious, but one employee isn’t “catching on” and you want to have a conversation about their flip-flops as a safety hazard.

    7. allathian*

      Does her city require proof of vaccination, or are there alternatives available, such as regular testing?

    8. Haha Lala*

      It’s not your job to convince her to get vaccinated, but you can spell out her options. I wouldn’t assume she’d be automatically excluded from other events, but she made need to regularly get tested or wear a mask all the time in order to participate. Lots of restaurants in my city require either proof of vaccination or a recent negative test in order to enter, and it may be the same around you. That might rule her out for spur of the moment dinners, but she’d be able to plan ahead for an important client meetings or scheduled functions.

      You might want to approach this from a mindset that she has a medical exemption. If she had a legitimate doctor’s recommendation to not get vaccinated, what would you and your company do? There are several ‘reasonable accommodations’ that could be made for certain aspects of the job. Don’t make it about wanting her to get vaccinated, instead spell out the specific company policies/city mandates, what’s expected of her, and where she will run into issues.

      And if she refuses to wear a mask or get tested when needed, in violation of clear policies, then I agree- she’s not your best employee and she’s no longer a good fit for the position.

    9. Kotow*

      It’s really not your job to convince her to get it, and if she hasn’t gotten it at this point there’s probably a reason. I’d actually say it’s not even really your business as to what that reason is unless she tells you for medical accommodation purposes. If you’re going to have a conversation with her at this point, I’d focus on what the work-related issues are, and, assuming that the current requirements continue to remain in effect indefinitely, what problems that would ultimately create. But frankly, if her work is functionally unaffected at the moment, then I don’t know whether a conversation about hypothetical job limitations under hypothetical future restrictions is productive at this point.

  53. no dogs on the moon*

    tough week this week! had two interviews i thought went great at a company i’d love to work at, and haven’t heard back in a bit – i followed up a couple days ago but am starting to worry i’m gonna get ghosted (which i have been by other jobs, and it happens, but it always hurts more when it seems like the process is really pleasant and communicative for a few months). if i didn’t get it i hope i at least get a rejection!

    also getting increasingly frustrated at my current role… i can’t do any of the development stuff i want because i’m being stonewalled by a different team (for no good reason) and earlier this year asked for the first raise i’d be getting in my several years here after doing great work and taking on a number of new tasks. it’s been a few months so i followed up again yesterday to see if it was something i’d done preventing an answer so i could improve… no, they just “need to get focused on it.” uh………. ???

    all that is part of why i’ve been trying to find a new job for a year, but i’m in a niche field and am concerned i’ve run out of remote options so i gotta start looking into changing fields. trying to keep my chin up!

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      In terms of tamping down your valid frustration with being roadblocked (such an annoying situation), could you reframe their non-reason in your head to something amusing and silly?

      For example, “Ohhhh, right, they’re dealing with an infestation of knitting heffalumps right now. Poor dept, having to spend so much time unwinding yards of scarves and dealing with wool bobbles puffs everywhere, makes it hard for them to do anything. Bless their hearts, I hope they manage to dig out of that okay.”

  54. BeadsNotBees*

    Success Story! I have worked in the private Education field my entire career (both teaching and administration- currently in upper administration and oversee multiple programs). Like a lot of my peers, I have unfortunately been feeling super burned out in this new COVID-era and have long dreamed of doing something else. I always figured switching industries was going to be difficult and/or impossible, but after reading AAM and comments here for a few years, I decided to polish up my resume and really pinpoint skills that would pass as “transferable” outside of education (I have a BS Accounting and of course lots of experience in management and operations).

    Well, I’m happy to say that after only a few weeks (!!!) of searching, I have successfully landed a management role at an accounting software company! I will be moving from a Senior Management role to a Middle Management role while still increasing my pay, so I’m excited to have a little less responsibility without taking a salary cut (which I thought was a real possibility making a move to a brand new field). My new bosses were actually thrilled to see my experience in the education sector, and really saw value in some of the soft skills, conflict management methods, and high stakes decisions involved in my former position! I’m feeling a little sad about leaving some of my colleagues and children, but am so excited to really push myself and try something new.

    I know there are a lot of AAM peers in education that are feeling at the end of their rope (even here in today’s thread) so I wanted to share my story to show that it is possible!

  55. runrabbitrun*

    Does anyone have suggestions for good job boards? This is my first real job search after stumbling into my current role almost by accident (applied for a higher position that I was qualified for but they called me and offered a better role over the phone within a day or two of my application, and I’d only been searching for a few days — talk about a lucky break!). I’ve been slogging through Indeed, Monster, LinkedIN, USAJobs, etc. casually but the sheer number of entries is overwhelming to me, even with filters in place.

    I have a BA and am currently a government analyst with some minor supervisory/QA experience, so think editing, executive correspondence, developing training materials, etc., but I’m definitely willing to change directions for the right job. Any tips on where I should be looking are much appreciated!

    1. annakarina1*

      Those are the big ones, but organizations that are specific to your industry usually have job postings listed, which is really helpful. You can look for local organizations that are for your general field, like if it was for a Montana Lawyers Association or Chicago Librarians Association or anything similar.

      I’m in library/archives, and there are local organizations like Metro Library Council and Archivists Round Table that put up job postings for library/archives jobs, they are usually helpful outside of Indeed (though Indeed is helpful for finding archivist jobs that aren’t just at libraries or museums or non-profits) and LinkedIn.

      1. runrabbitrun*

        I would love to go back to school for a degree in library science! I’ve been interested in both that and archive studies/positions, but those usually require a degree (which is totally understandable), so I can only dream about them now. You’re doing my dream work!

        Anyway, back to the topic…thanks for the tip! I will see what I can scrounge up locally, but my best bet is probably hunting around the nearest major city, so I’ll see what I can find.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Government jobs are usually posted on government job boards (every state has one and usually larger cities do, too), so you can always start with those. In my field, there’s regional organizations, state organizations and also national organizations that have job boards. I would try to find a job board specific to your field and go from there.

  56. Dolla dolla bill*

    Advice for a faculty member about to ask for a raise? I have had tenure for several years. Recently I realized that all of my tenured colleagues in my department–all but one of whom are junior to me–are paid more than I am (significantly more). I’ve assembled a chart comparing my scholarly output to my colleagues. What else should I do, in preparation to talking to my department chair and dean? Thanks for any advice!

    1. Gracely*

      You may also want to compare your course loads/hours, and your service work. How valued each of those are in comparison with scholarly output is going to depend on your institution’s focus (are you more of a teaching university or a research university). If there’s a diversity issue (like if you’re a member of a minority group and they aren’t), you should mention that.

      Also, have you brought in any money through grants/etc.? Or, if your colleagues have and you haven’t, be prepared to answer about that.

    2. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      I’m going to ask the ugly question – what are the demographics? Are your colleagues all white men and you are not?

      1. Dolla dolla bill*

        The demographics are a little tricky… there’s plenty of diversity, not all white males, but I’m the only queer one.

    3. BRR*

      Assuming you’re part of a union, check what the collective bargaining agreement says regarding raises.

  57. lily*

    New manager here. Inherited a team 6 months ago and one of my reports has serious issues with communication and organization that were documented before I got there. I’ve spent a lot of time coaching him and creating structure for him, but he still keeps making big mistakes. The worst part is, he doesn’t seem to care or think it’s a problem. He made an objectively pretty big screwup this past week, I tried to talk with him about how we were going to fix it, and he kept arguing with me how it really wasn’t that big of a deal and all the other teams it impacted were overreacting. Talked to HR and he’s going on a formal PIP, but I’m not optimistic he will change.

    The process has been really emotionally draining for me. I have spent so much time trying to help him succeed here, staying calm in meetings, and now I’m feeling so guilty for potentially having to fire him. Does anyone have advice on not expending so much emotional energy on a difficult employee?

    1. BlueDijon*

      Oh goodness, I remember being in a similar position 2 years ago. What helped me when trying to coach someone who was either not engaging or not being able to meet that level was to see it as beneficial for me as well as them, and flip what my emotional energy was going to – that I was learning how to handle these situations, and so that emotional energy was going towards both me and them. It helped me still try to do my best to help them, but also maintain some perspective because a) I had not had that experience before and b) it helped to make it feel like even if the end outcome was not what I wanted, it wasn’t necessarily a ‘failure.’

      1. lily*

        Thank you! This is a really good way to reframe it. This is definitely a learning experience for me!

      2. lily*

        Very true. But this is more of a Dunning-Kruger situation where, he seems to think he’s doing great. And I, his last boss, and everyone else he works with is just overreacting or putting unrealistic expectations on him.

        He has only been with our company 2 years and I’ve received nothing but negative feedback about him from others — but he has the confidence (arrogance) of someone who has been there 20 years and is BFF’s with the CEO’s son.

        1. Mental Lentil*

          Sadly, he should have been managed out by now. TWO years with this unrealistic view of himself?

          He’s not going to change. He doesn’t think he is the problem. He thinks everybody else is the problem.

          Honestly, he may just quit when he goes on a PIP, or he may take it so lightly that you have no choice but to show him the door.

        2. PollyQ*

          The broader idea, that you can’t be responsible for someone else’s attitude, still applies. Ultimately, it’s not your job to make him see reason. It’s your job to get him to do his work and behave professionally. If you’ve coached and warned and PIP’d, then that’s all you are responsible for. And I don’t know how your company handles PIPs, but given that he’s been nothing but a problem for 2 years, I’d make it as short as you can.

      3. The New Wanderer*

        Exactly! You want him to be better, but he apparently doesn’t. You can’t make him put in the effort, all you can do is be clear (via PIP) what he needs to do and it’s up to him to use the support structure you created or not.

        I like what BlueDijon said too, about seeing this as a growth opportunity for you. It still sucks but it’s not a wasted effort on your part at all.

    3. Oreo*

      That sounds really hard and I am sorry it’s been so draining. At the end of the day, this is your employee’s job and he needs to care. Hopefully the PIP will either show him he’s got one more chance to correct himself or that’s that. This is on him to put in the work to show improvements and be a better team player. My partner recently went through and it was really hard on him but after a lot of coaching and a PIP, it was pretty much certain that this person wasn’t a good fit, wasn’t going to make the improvements and had to be let go. It was rough on him but ultimately he did all he could to support this employee.

    4. Lizy*

      Alison’s had some letters about this and I love her suggestions on “Here’s what I need to see”. Like, just flat refuse to argue with him. He made a screwup, and so you say
      “You did X, and it really affected…”
      “No it didn’t – they’re overreacting.”
      “I’m not going to talk about whether or not they’re overreacting, or how big of a screwup you think it is or is not. That’s not up to you to decide. What I need to see from you moving forward is Y. Can you agree to do that?”

      obviously a lot easier said than done, and I personally have never done it, but I like talking a big story about what sounds like a really foul-proof plan. ;)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Heavy on the part about “that’s not up to you to decide”.

          You can expand this part if you wish: “The company and the bosses tell us what is important and what is not important, we do not make those decisions on our own. If we fail to follow up on things that the company and the bosses tell us are important there are consequences up to and including termination. So this misconception that you need to work on is that we do not decide what is and is not important. The company/bosses say something needs to be done in a certain manner The Only Correct Answer is, “Okay will do.” You can talk about insubordination and what types of things are seen as being insubordinate.

          Now you know, from here forward, to watch out for people who argue with your instructions. You can say things such as, “This is what is necessary, it’s not up for debate.” You can ask if they have everything they need to do Thing, if that makes sense in the setting. Or you can ask if they will do this from here on.

  58. OkapiFeels*

    Public librarian here. Got compared to a Nazi yesterday for asking a guy to turn down his music. Complete with the patron doing a Nazi salute. (And this from a dude with a laptop sticker with the flag of a Spanish white nationalist group.)

    We didn’t even kick him out.

    I don’t know if I want….advice? I’m just….kind of struggling with justifying being in my job, if this is how I am treated. I don’t know. Any insight or advice appreciated.

    1. Gracely*

      The public can often suck. And it doesn’t sound like that guy in particular was going to handle any criticism well, no matter who it came from or what it was about. His response wasn’t about you, it was 1000% about him.

      But usually for every sucky patron like that, there are some really good patrons who look up to librarians and appreciate them. Remind yourself that you’re there for them.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I am sorry this happened. I imagine it was awful. In my decade of experience in working with the public in libraries, I have been called all sorts of absurd things including a nazi and a communist, been told my job was government theft (because taxes paid for the library), and been yelled at by a man who wore a wolf-skin vest, incoherently in Russian, while holding a knife. (We called the campus police on that one. It was a scene, let me tell you. They were great, knew the guy’s name, and skillfully defused the situation.) I don’t even work in public libraries anymore and those friends have stories that make my wolf-skin vest dude look like a boring Tuesday.

      It sucks every time. There are others who might argue you should have kicked him out, but I don’t tend to be one of them. It has always seemed to me the higher good of public libraries is to provide access to people. Even awful people who I wish weren’t there. Assuming the patron did as you asked (ie: turned down their music, stopped speaking loudly to themselves, or left if they were clearly intoxicated), I wouldn’t escalate or kick them out either. I would just say, “Okay, they did as I asked and now I can go back to ignoring them.”

      If you feel genuinely unsafe (our campus did ban the wolf-skin vest dude for six months), then I think speaking to your director is a good idea. Another trick I have used is to ask another staff member to come over with me. Not to approach the patron (that could escalate things, because it would look intimidating), but just to be there in case something happened. We had a nicely positioned large dictionary for just such occasions that the person could “browse”. I was always grateful for that back up. I hope this helped and I am sorry this happened to you.

    4. librarianmom*

      You have every right to work in a safe environment and be able to do your job without abuse. Your library needs procedures to deal with difficult patrons which is supported by your administration and board of trustees. An acceptable behavior policy needs to be adopted by your trustees and posted in the building and on your web site. An important aspect is documentation. There should be a form to fill out every time you have problems. A paper trail is the foundation to being able to ban people via no trespass notices served by the police.

      This should never be on a sole librarian’s shoulders. If you feel a lack of support you should ban together and insist on a safe work environment.

    5. StudentA*

      Something is very wrong with him. It’s a freaking library. By definition it’s supposed to be quiet. He’s pretty much daring someone to tell him to turn down his music. You were being generous by not telling him to turn it OFF.

      Mind the messenger. He sounds like a lunatic. Still, I’m sorry that happened to you.

    6. Decidedly Me*

      People suck. My team was compared to Nazis recently, too, because we were unable to offer service as their use case was against industry regulations.

      Thankfully, those folks are few and far between (I think that was the very first Nazi comparison…).

    7. irene adler*

      That is appalling!
      As a regular library patron (pre-pandemic), thank you for preserving the quiet.
      Anything other than a “You bet. I’ll do as you ask right now. Sorry for the disturbance.” should be met with ejecting the patron from the library. This is behavior you should not have to endure.

    8. lily*

      I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. What a jerk. IMO, to some extent, any job that involves a lot of interaction with the general public will mean having a lot of bizarre and negative interactions – it will be exasperating at least 20-50% of the time. People are nuts. So maybe you can reframe it to ask yourself, “is the other 50-80% of my job worth the price of having these negative interactions?” Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

      Also, hopefully you have coworkers you can commiserate with? Nothing takes the sting out of dealing with horrible customers like venting and laughing about it with people who get it, coming up with secret nicknames for them…10 years later and I can still remember the customers we called “Senor Oatmeal,” and “The Stomper.”

    9. Hotdog not dog*

      No advice, but all the love for public librarians! Growing up, my next door neighbor was the librarian. She would let me know any time a new book she thought I’d like came in, and she even let me exceed the “maximum allowable” number of books to check out on my card (kids under 12 could only have 3 books at once). I felt so grown up and trustworthy! I still love libraries, and have yet to meet a librarian I didn’t like.

    10. RagingADHD*

      Libraries exist to help combat the scourge of ignorance. It is a real fight-not always pretty, and not easily won.

      I’m sorry you took such a nasty hit.

    11. Tiabeanie*

      Tbh in that situation I’d have likely “gone with it” and said “Nazi supporters tend to listen to authority. Turn it down.”

    12. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Hi OkapiFeels, There’s a probably apocryphal story of a bartender who ejects a quiet, polite customer who is wearing a jacket covered in nazi paraphernalia. Another customer asks why the quiet, polite customer was ejected and the bartender basically says the man is showing who he really is, and if he is allowed to stay then next week he will be there with two friends, also wearing nazi regalia, and so on until one day the bartender realises he is now running a nazi bar.

      I think your experience in the library raises a lot of interesting questions. What behaviours do you nip in the bud? If I was an elderly Jewish lady, how would I feel about using your library again, if I saw the customer insulting a staff member in this way and there being no repercussions?

      The library is a public space, certainly, but there are still limits on what behaviour is appropriate there. If the customer had spoken to another patron like that, would he have been asked to leave?

      I think the crucial thing here is for you to have genuine backup from your employer, as this is an issue that can only increase over time. So it is not just how you personally were treated, but how your employer thinks you CAN be treated, which is the question.

      I hope there is a ‘mandatory incident report‘ form that you can complete, and that you can create a paper trail that can be used to create a safer environment for you and all of the people who want to use the library in safety.

      2. RagingADHD*

        A crucial difference here is that the proprietor of the bar gets to draw those lines for himself, while a library funded by public money (as most are) has very strict legal obligations about what types of speech they can ban people for.

        “What if another patron is offended” is not usually applicable to public places, because at least in the US, people do not have a legal right to be sheltered from hearing offensive things in public. The legal issues will be different in other countries, of course.

        But whatever the local laws, t’s certainly not a librarian’s individual call to make.

  59. Washi*

    I have been working at my job about 6 months and we’ve been trying to hire a couple more people in my same role for about that long. I just turned 30 and most of my coworkers are 50+. My boss, also 50+, has mentioned several times that she’d really like more age diversity on the team, meaning more younger people. Should I say anything about potential for age discrimination? I do feel a bit silly doing so because there’s a shortage of people with the right qualifications (job requires a specific Master’s) and I truly am 100% sure that she would never actually turn someone down due to age because we are so shorthanded and aren’t even getting serious applications! Plus I’m not sure what I would even say. But I do worry that she’s not aware 40+ is a protected category. Thoughts?

    1. Mary*

      When you’re in the same protected category, proving discrimination against that category is infinitely more difficult, and a defense that your employer would raise in a heartbeat if anyone sued over it. Still, if it comes up again I would casually say something like “Would it be possible for us to focus on X Y Z metric/degree/qualification instead, since age is a protected category? If we hire on age alone it might look like discrimination.” That way you’re doing it conversationally and with a tone that suggests she already knows that, rather than “HEY AREN’T YOU FORGETTING…”

      1. irene adler*

        This is a good tactic. I like it.

        Boss hasn’t actually taken any action to remove anyone from the hiring pool-right?

        So I would temper this with watching to see IF boss actually passes on resumes that appear to be from “seasoned” candidates in lieu of those who are younger – solely based on the perceived age the resume reflects.

        Just wondering, is the boss interested in other types of diversity- other than age?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Because you are not getting serious applications, I think I’d let this one go.
      If you happen to know someone who is qualified then refer them to the opening.

  60. Going Anon For This One*

    So, there’s some drama in my workplace and I am struggling to navigate it. After a long stint, a faculty member, Fergus, is retiring. This is long coming and Fergus is well regarded, but super old fashioned and change resistant. Fergus has an assistant, Bob, who I supervise, but works about 30% with Fergus. While Bob has a PhD in a field related to Llama Grooming, say Llama History, Bob has no training in practical Llama Grooming beyond what he’s learned from Fergus. I have a more recent training in Llama Grooming, but not a PhD. I am interested in Fergus’ position as well. I have turned down being on the hiring committee, because I knew I wanted to apply for the position. Bob has informed me he plans to apply as well and his expressed that he thinks he is a shoe-in. I am not super comfortable competing against my own staff member for a job. Plus, even if I weren’t applying, I don’t think Bob would be a good replacement for Fergus, because the goal is to modernize our Llama Grooming and Bob has shown strong resistance to this. Whether I get the job or not, I will need to continue to supervise with Bob in some capacity. Is there a way to navigate this without it blowing up? Am I worried about nothing? Should I tell Bob I am also applying?

    1. Well*

      I think this situation is not uncommon. If you get the job be prepared for bob to look to make an exit ( or maybe he won’t) but there could be new mgt challenges with him.

    2. Anonymousaurus Rex*

      I definitely think you should tell Bob you are applying. It has less chance of totally blowing up if you are transparent. I think this is just one of those things where you have to see where the cards shake out. Make sure you make your opinions on the needed changes to modernize Llama Grooming known to the hiring committee. And I agree that if you get it, you might want to think about how that impact’s Bob’s morale in his current role. If you can, look for other opportunities where you can use his strengths and let him know where he is valued. Otherwise, yeah, he may be making an exit.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Will you have to act as a reference for Bob in his application?

      If yes, I would tell him as soon as possible. Tell him you have a conflict of interest so you cannot write a referral.

      Let others know what is going on here- take people with you. This could be HR, your own boss or other people.

  61. The Quitter*

    I put in my notice and was open that I didn’t have anything lined up – but was confident I would bounce into something quickly. It got fed up the chain to the CEO, who has asked me to stay until I line something up, whenever that may be. I know my work there is highly valued but the job has too many elements that don’t align with what it was sold to me as, no room for growth, questionable financial future, and the people I work with most frequently are just… awful and it wasn’t worth it. I know I can bounce into a similar position with growth potential for an easy $5-6k more. I don’t expect to take them up (but am open to hearing stories about people who reached the end of their rope and were able to knot it), but I’m trying to figure out what the actual value to the company would be to let me stay until “whenever I want” and have to scramble to find a replacement then? I’ve seen enough of the hiring to know they will not be looking throughout this time, and maybe not even for 6 months after I’m gone. (My guess is they hope I will change my mind, but it would require far more for me to stay than I think they would do.)

    1. Well*

      You gave notice with nothing lined up for a reason. Think about why that is and whether there is any benefit to YOU to stick around.

      2. Anonymous Hippo*

        Absolutely agree with this. Generally someone gives notice without a new job lined up because they are FED-UP. You don’t owe them the time. They probably hope you just give up an stay.

    2. You get a pen and you get a pen*

      The company is making this offer solely as a benefit to THEM, not you. By letting you stay, they don’t have any urgency in finding your replacement.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Since you don’t really want to stay and have nothing to lose, why not ask for what would make it worth staying, and see what happens?

    4. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I think your question was something like, “Why would the company offer to let me stay?”

      It benefits the company because they get to hang onto your experience and work for longer, delaying the time when they need to invest resources into the process of interviewing, then training someone new.

  62. Not Parker Pyne*

    Anyone here has experience in hiring international faculty members? What are the basic things to consider? How do you approach the process?

    1. Gracely*

      Check with your HR department about that–often there are visa requirements/paperwork/etc. that need to be dealt with, and they should know more specifics.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes, this. Visas… I could go on such a rant here. But yeah, super check out the Visa situation.

        1. You get a pen and you get a pen*

          just to chime in and second all this….H1B Visas have very stringent guidelines and can take a LONG time to work through the process.

    2. SnappinTerrapin*

      I’m not sure I understand the question.

      Do you already have one or more strong candidates who have applied, and who are better fits than the local applicants?

      Or are you looking for some expertise where the place they earned their degree/ have worked in the past strengthens their candidacy (e.g., teaching about the culture of that other country)?

      Or is there another reason that hiring someone from another country is particularly appealing?

    3. Chaordic One*

      I previously worked in a dubious nontraditional international school that offered courses and hired from all over the world. We hired many short-term international faculty members to work in the U.S. The key words here are “short-term.” They were usually hired on a contract basis to teach specific courses during a specified time frame. The big thing seemed to be that the school had program approval entered in the “Student and Exchange Visitor Information System” (SEVIS). Almost all of the faculty were then brought in on J-1 visas, which seemed comparatively easy to get and which are considered “non-immigrant” visas. The faculty were not allowed to stay in the U.S. for longer than 18 months. Of course, this was several years ago and things may have changed since then.

  63. SleepDeprived*

    I’m usually a high performer, someone who volunteers to help and acts as a resource. I have two young kids, and the youngest, an infant, has some medical stuff going on and is is not sleeping. We are working with his doctor, but they’ve warned me there’s no quick fix, and it could be a while before he’s sleeping longer stretches. Baby is sleeping 30-90 minutes, and then will be up for an hour, around the clock. At night, his crying wakes up the toddler, and then it’s a battle to get her down as well.

    My husband and I are taking shifts as best we can, but because I’m nursing, I end up taking the lions share. We are both exhausted. My husband works in on site and I think that helps keep him awake, but I work from home and as soon as I get back from daycare drop off, I just want to crawl into bed.

    My quality of work this past week has been poor. I’m working extremely slowly, constantly finding errors in my work that I have to go back and fix, and my colleagues keep bringing stuff back to me to be redone. Everyone makes mistakes, but not like this. I feel like I haven’t properly completed a task all week. I wish I could just take the week off, but after my maternity leave, I have very little time off remaining, and I don’t know how long this will last.

    How do I handle this with my colleagues? I didn’t want to say anything and sound like I’m making excuses, but I’m sure they’ve caught on that something is up. I’ve tried to put in extra hours to make up for my lack of productivity, but my quality of work is so low, I’m probably hurting more than helping. I don’t think it’s fair to say to my team “sorry, sick baby, I’m too tired to work for the next two weeks”, but that’s how I’m starting to feel. If you were my colleague, what would you want me to do?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’d rather have 4 hours of good work out of you than 8 hours of bad work. If I were your colleague, I’d suggest you take the mornings off to catch up on sleep, and then work in the afternoon (and evening if possible, but it sounds like it’s not).

    2. Zona the Great*

      Oh my God. Hearing this makes me want to help you collapse into a pile of warm blankets. If you were my colleague, I’d care only about your mental health here. I would even encourage you to stay home later in the morning or maybe find a way to take a nap at work before you really begin your work day.

    3. Gracely*

      I would definitely prefer that you sleep instead of work extra hours. Even if you can only take a power nap here and there, that’s going to go a long way towards reducing your errors which will effectively increase your productivity.

      Like, seriously, when you get back from daycare hand off, set an alarm and get yourself an hour or two of sleep. Especially if you’re salaried, at this point, consider the nap part of what you need to do your work effectively.

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Putting in extra hours is not the way to push productivity here. YOU NEED A NAP.

      If you were my colleague, I’d want to be able to sit down with you, figure out which things can be farmed off to other members of the team for a couple of weeks, and make a plan for addressing your current “wobble” off the productivity path. Focus on the priority stuff and see what can be left behind. If you took a week off, how much of the work would get done and by whom? If you’re able to go half-speed, is that enough for a little while? (And maybe this is a chat-with-my-manager thing.)

      You’ve been a resource to others. Time for them to repay the favor.

    5. Bobina*

      If I was your colleague – I say take the time that you need (even unpaid if thats feasible for you financially!) – basically people are human and I’d want you to focus on yourself and your family.

      If you need to keep working, communicate things are going on (so it people arent wondering whats going on), work in whatever way suits you best (eg sleep all day and work at night? fine by me) and if you need help, ask for it! Extra proof-reading? Help pushing deadlines? If your team and manager are reasonable, I’d much rather the clear ask than getting sub-par work.

    6. Well*

      If I was a colleague I’d be sympathetic and want to know how I could be helpful in terms of the work. As an aside, can you get a white noise machine for the toddler and see if that helps them sleep through the noise?

    7. Pocket Mouse*

      Can you take some of the mornings (or all of them) as sick time? It sounds like there are times you don’t feel up to working, and in my book, that’s exactly what sick time is for.

    8. Canadian psychologist*

      I would also recommend looking for more help at home than you currently have, if at all possible. Is there any relative/friend/babysitter who can do some of the childcare so you can sleep? Will baby take a bottle, either expressed milk or formula, so someone other than you can feed baby? Anything regular/scheduled, that you can depend on, is better than ad hoc. Eg your mom spending one-two nights a week doing baby care? And/or, toddler has a regular sleepover with grandparents/trusted friends/relatives so you can focus on baby? Etc…

      Also is there any type of leave or days off that you are eligible for, given your baby has a health condition? Or go to a four days a week schedule so you can sleep/rest on Fridays? Also, talk to baby’s doctor further about other options for treatment- seriously, is there NOTHING that can be done other than wait it out? And parent forums online for your baby’s illness can be invaluable for strategies and ideas. I know you asked for work strategies, but if any of these options at home are possible, it will help with work! Oh, and ask friends to research options for you for all of this, it is ok to delegate wherever you can!

      1. Jean (just Jean)*

        Check with your employer (preferably HR dept because they’re the ones who really know this stuff). It may be possible to take FMLA leave as unpaid time. Not ideal in terms of the wallet, but at least it’s time off that is employer-approved.

        And oooh, that sounds so hard. I hope it resolves soon for all of you!

    10. PollyQ*

      Many people go through periods where they’re not working at 100%. Perhaps they just broke up with a SO, or are going through a divorce. Perhaps they’ve got a health issue that’s distracting them. Perhaps they’ve got a relative with a health issue and they’re worried sick. (That was me, while my sister was waiting to have brain surgery. She was fine, but there were a couple of weeks where I was absolutely useless.)

      So my first advice is to cut yourself a little slack, because you’re not some kind of low-productivity monster, you’re a human who’s going through a thing. My second is to do whatever you need to get more sleep. My third is, if possible, to try to slow down on your work tasks with the goal of making fewer mistakes. Maybe make some checklists, even if you didn’t need them in the past.

    11. Lizy*

      oh my goodness, tell them!

      If I was your supervisor, I’d want to know so I could tell you to stop putting in extra hours – take care of your family. I’d also want to know so I could coordinate a gift card or meal delivery or two, or, depending on the work culture, help coordinate a meal-tree of sorts. If I was your coworker, I’d want to know so I could tell you to stop putting in extra hours – take care of your family, and to ask what I could take on that would help, or offer to take on Task X that would help, or just re-do the task instead of bringing it back to you. I’d also want to know so I could coordinate with our mutual boss to get a meal delivered or two or possible set up a meal-tree of sorts. Depending on our relationship and office culture, I’d offer to take the toddler for an evening (or even overnight). If I had a ton of PTO and knew I wouldn’t use it, I’d want to be able to go to our mutual boss and ask if I could donate some to you. Heck, I’d offer to take Baby for a night so you could get some sleep (assuming you/Baby would be ok with it and/or assuming Baby takes a bottle).

      You’re not making excuses. While it’s not necessarily “fair” to say to your team that you’re basically too tired to work for the few weeks, it’s the reality, and anyone who’s human and has dealt with human stuff knows that sometimes, you just can’t.

      Also, if your employer has an EAP, try to call them. You know, in your spare time. ;)

      Good luck, momma. Hoping and praying Baby gets better soon.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        You’re not making excuses. While it’s not necessarily “fair” to say to your team that you’re basically too tired to work for the few weeks, it’s the reality, and anyone who’s human and has dealt with human stuff knows that sometimes, you just can’t.

        And it’s not just new parents. So many people have times like this where they just can’t keep up, due to illness or emergencies or whatever.

    12. lily*

      Take the time off. Your coworkers have already noticed and will understand. For (good) managers, they would rather have you take a break and come back at 90-100% than spend two weeks at 10%.

    13. RagingADHD*

      Tell them the baby is sick! That’s not making excuses, it’s letting them know what’s going on.

      Bless your hearts, that sounds miserable on you & the whole family, and I hope the little guy gets sorted out as quickly as possible.

    14. Anony*

      If I were your colleague I’d say instead of extra hours, I’d rather you work fewer hours but better quality work. Not sure how flexible your hours are, but could you take an hour after daycare dropoff and an hour after lunch (or whenever) to take a nap? You’ll be more productive in the hours you do put in. In general try to cut yourself some slack. Everyone has off weeks.

  64. Coenobita*

    In my recent performance review, my manager and I were talking about my goals for the upcoming year. I said something like, “Maybe I will take a course in X to learn more about Relevant Thing,” and my boss said responded, “That’s great, but honestly you already know a lot, and I’d rather you work on being more comfortable with ambiguity.”

    This definitely tracks – I’m super risk averse and don’t like to make decisions without all the information, but we work in a field where everything has a lot of uncertainty. (Just to be clear, in context, his comment wasn’t inappropriate in any way. We have a friendly, no-BS kind of working relationship and I do see his point.)

    What are your recommendations for working on this skill? Have you made progress on this yourself? How do you write a work goal that includes something like this???

    1. Paris Geller*

      Wow, this is an excellent question. I’ve never really thought about it before, but I struggle with this too. I think maybe reflect on why you struggle with ambiguity? Is it a lack of confidence? That’s my issue with ambiguity for sure. I don’t always trust my decision-making, even when I’ve been told by past supervisors that it’s generally good. I hope you get some good answers to this question because I too would love to know what advice others have for this!

    2. ecnaseener*

      Can you use the old “What would [role model who’s better at this than you] do” trick? Whenever you catch yourself avoiding a decision, ask yourself if your role model would think she had enough information to make the decision now.

    3. LKW*

      I suppose your action plan should be related to how you express your discomfort with ambiguity.

      Do you have difficulty kicking off a project without having all the answers – then I would recommend building skills around documenting assumptions, planning and estimating based on those assumptions and then updating the plan when those assumptions are verified or challenged.

      If you lean heavily on others to confirm direction or get recommendations, especially if they don’t have any new-to-you-info or deeper skills, then I’d recommend being more independent. It’s not that you can’t lean on folks, but are you using their time to simply confirm what you already know?

      So what are the circumstances?

    4. Iris Eyes*

      I love the irony of the ambiguity of writing a goal to tackle comfort with ambiguity.

      A concrete goal might be to write down “if I had to make a decision now” at certain points in your process and then review them when you do make the final decision. Maybe confidence in your ability to fill in the gaps will grow, maybe you will find that your current approach is in fact the best option. In essence a goal to create case studies.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I would recommend a combination of journalling and experimentation. First, consider some situations where you held back due to discomfort with risk and ambiguity. What was truly at stake, what made it risky? How did you feel about it? What was lost or compromised due to hesitating? What could have been gained by acting in the midst of ambiguity? How do you feel about the outcome?

      Then, take a series of small, controlled risks in ambiguous situations and journal about them:

      Why that thing, what you know or don’t know, the potential upside and downside, how you feel about the situation, the choice you made and why, the outcome, and how you feel about it afterward.

      Start tiny with ridiculously low stakes, and gradually choose bigger risks until you match a typical work situation.

  65. Parakeet*

    There’s a company I have some interest in. For the kind of work that I would be interested in doing with them, they currently have a manager-level opening (that would still require strong individual contributor skills in addition to managing people), and a couple of “open submissions” postings for non-manager-level openings (i.e. they expect to keep adding both full-time and part-time people to do that work and are asking people to send in materials to be considered for those openings as they arise).

    The manager-level opening would be a stretch but not a non-starter, I think. I would be qualified for the individual contributor roles as they arise. I’m wondering whether I should bother applying to the manager-level opening or just submit materials for individual contributor “open submissions.” I worry that if I do both at once, I’ll look, I don’t know, unfocused or something.

    1. Parakeet*

      Oops I forgot to actually put a question in here, which was, what advice people have about this. I think the question is implied but I’m spelling it out here in case it’s not.

    2. Be kind, rewind*

      Apply for the manager position that you want. If they think you’re a better fit for the IC role, they’ll refer you to that one. (It has happened to me before.)

  66. Local Garbage Committee*

    I’m a horizontal filer who is setting up a new office space. Any organizational tips? Things I should buy? My past method has been just stuff everywhere, and I’m hoping there is a better way!

    1. alynn*

      there are desk organizers that are basically a tiny set of shelves and each shelf is the size of paper/file. I hope that made sense.
      I saw some interesting products by googling paper organization, desk shelf organizer, or even just office organization.

    2. Ranon*

      You might like some of the tips on the Clutter bug website- she also has an HGTV show now. Lots of organizational tips for folks who need to see everything

  67. Alexis Rosay*

    I quit a job about 6 weeks ago. I gave two months notice and prepared extensive documentation on my work and trained people on various tasks. Folks asked me if they could reach out if he had the occasional question he couldn’t find an answer to, and I said yes.

    I was a little shocked by how folks interpreted this. The requests I received, from different people, after I quit included:
    1. Look over a screenshot of a social media plan for errors
    2. Review software code that had not been tested
    3. Set goals for my former team for the upcoming year
    4. Answer a simple question for a non-time-sensitive report, with the caveat that “I would have asked Joe but he’s on vacation”. (This from Former Boss).

    I was politely explained that I could not do 1-3. By the time I got #4 I was completely fed up and gave a very snippy, terse reply.

    Former Boss probably wasn’t aware of how many other requests I’d gotten, but I still think asking me before asking a current employee was out of line. However, I do feel a little bit bad for my snippy and terse reply. I don’t want to burn a bridge–do I need to say anything?

    1. ecnaseener*

      Oh man, you had every right to be snippy about that. You’re on FOREVER vacation from that job!

      But in terms of whether it would be smart to smooth it over for your own sake…just how snippy were you? Are we talking “Sorry FB, I’m not available either. You’ll need to ask someone who still works there” or like, actually mean?

      1. Alexis Rosay*

        No, not actually mean. More like “I don’t know. Try asking someone else.” Maybe fine to say but comes off as cold in text.

        1. You get a pen and you get a pen*

          Text?? Oh man, that’s even worse. Texting always implies needing an immediate response (or is that just me?) You gave them everything they needed with the documentation, training and two months for transition. I’d say you did all you could to set them up for success. Don’t feel bad, it’s them, not you

          1. Alexis Rosay*

            Right?! I felt pretty disrespected by that, honestly. Also knowing what I know, the request was not time-sensitive because that report could be a month late and the recipient wouldn’t have cared. It really said that Former Boss still thinks of me as a first resort for getting information, which doesn’t feel okay.

        2. ecnaseener*

          I honestly think that’s fine then. He’ll have framed that as ‘darn, Alexis didn’t know’ not as ‘Alexis refused to help’

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It’s not about “cannot do”, it’s about “will not.” You no longer work there! If they want you to review things (!), they can at least pay you for it.

      You would be within your rights to email your former boss and say, “I was willing to answer quick questions but now I’m being asked to do meaningful work. I am unable to do any more work for Company and have moved on to another role. If you would like to discuss a consulting arrangement, please let me know.” I mean, you don’t need that last bit, but it will probably stop the emails.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        I like this wording. There is a huge difference between being asked about some historical context (Sam says you might remember what we decided to do about the Avery problem) or information (where did you save the binder with the Fuller project information) and what you are being asked to do. I like Avon Lady Barksdale’s language, but would leave out the bit about a consulting arrangement.

        1. Alexis Rosay*

          Yes, exactly–when I agreed that they could contact me, I was imagining something like “Can you give us any background on the conversations you had with Important Partner around X topic that just came up”–something where maybe there isn’t as much documentation around it and no one else was present.

    4. Anonymous Hippo*

      IMO, giving a two months notice would mean you could have just said No when he asked if he could contact you. that’s 4x what a company normally gets and more than anyone could ask for.

      If I did get myself in that position though I’d just make sure I was NOT the easiest way to get the information. Be slow to respond, and not particularly helpful. Snippy isn’t great, but they were being unreasonable, and honestly I think it was a bit justified. Saying “and I don’t even work there” would have been a perfectly reasonable response to Former boss’s statement about Joe (WTF?). I personally think you just leave it go. If you really feel you must, I would write a letter/email and say you apologize for the snippiness, but you are being unnecessarily contacted about tasks you handed off, and that your new job keeps you busy to the point you need to rescind your original offer.

      1. Alexis Rosay*

        Thanks! I think I will let it go, and if they contact me in the future, I will try to be conscious of going for a slow & polite response, rather than snippy & fast. Making myself difficult to get information out of is a very good idea.

  68. ecnaseener*

    Hi all! I’m a little over 2 years into my first post-college job, pretty happy there, and I’ve been contacted by an external recruiter. This will be my first time looking into a potential new job when not actually job-hunting. (Intellectually I know this is a very very normal thing to do, but I can’t help feeling weird about it!) Two general questions:

    1. What should I expect on this first call? How much is it about my qualifications vs the job? Will she ask why I’m interested? (She presumably saw my linkedin is NOT marked as open to work, and she didn’t give me many details for me to express interest in.)

    2. What are some good things to ask her? The job is in the same line of work I’m already in, fully remote in another location (same time zone). There’s not really anything I can think of that would make me go “oh AWESOME that would be so much better than my current job,” and I can’t think of many dealbreakers that I could find out from the recruiter vs the hiring manager / team. So far I’ve got:

    – is everyone else on the team based in that city and potentially going back in person? what changed that made this now a remote position? (She first contacted me about this job several months ago when it was in-person and I said no because location)

    – how big is the team and how is it organized? what tasks would I spend most of my time on? (on my current team we have a couple people who focus on painting spouts, others who paint handles, others who do touch-ups, etc but I know some teams just have everyone do whole teapots.)

    – pay and benefits and stuff??

    What else would you say I should definitely ask? I have googled it but the listicles are giving me quantity over quality, I want y’all’s real advice :)

    1. Nicki Name*

      1. The main point will be how open you are to starting a real interview process. It’ll be the usual mixture of whether you feel you meet the qualifications well enough to try and whether you would really consider changing jobs given what the recruiter tells you about the job and company.

      2. Definitely ask about the salary range. One of the great things about dealing with external recruiters is they will know what kind of range it is.

      The plans for permanent remote vs. going into the office are a good thing to ask about though the recruiter may not specifically know.

      They probably won’t know much about team organization or daily tasks beyond what’s in the job description. They may know about company culture, and might know some specifics about the hiring manager’s interview/operating style if they’ve placed people with that manager before.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      I think you have a good list of questions here. I’d maybe ask why the position is open (growth vs. replacement) The first call is usually a basic phone screen that lasts anywhere from 15-30 minutes so between the recruiter’s spiel and your questions I think you’ll find it goes pretty quickly. I’d ask for the name of the company so you could do some research. There is a chance the recruiter won’t give you that information and if that is the case, you could ask them if they are working on a contingent or a retained basis. If the recruiter is retained, it means they are getting paid either way so it’s truly in their best interest to find the best candidate for the job and company. That means they should also have some deeper insight into the company culture and the position. If the recruiter is contingent, those folks tend to take a little bit more of a scatter shot approach since they are usually moving quickly to try and fill the role.

      Good luck!

      1. Elle Woods*

        I second your suggestion asking why the position is open. Asking about the history of the position can helpful too. It can give you some insight about opportunities for growth or possibly the turnover rate for the position.

        Good luck!

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      The recruiter is unlikely to have the information you are looking for — with them it will usually be a high level “what are the job qualifications, do you meet them on paper, are you interested in continuing a discussion.”

    4. ecnaseener*

      Thank you all, super good to know so I won’t waste time with questions she can’t answer! I’ll definitely ask about the history of the position / whether it’s new. And hopefully she’ll tell me what qualifications they’re looking for and they won’t be way out of reach, since she did find me on linkedin…gotta remind myself it Does Not Matter if I get rejected lol

  69. AnonPi*

    During a meeting yesterday with coworker and manager we discussed shifting some of my work to take on more project based work instead of the day to day data management/customer service stuff. Thought great, maybe this will lead to a promotion and role change I’ve been wanting and had hoped to discuss during my yearly review. They then proceed to mention they are going to ask HR just how much work they can off load on me w/o changing my role :( Like half my job is already stuff I wasn’t hired to do – not complaining about the work as I prefer it, but not w/o being compensated for it. And they go on about you have to do this for years before HR/management will consider changing your position. So yay they get to take advantage and get more work out of me for years, while I hold out hope for a nebulous promotion.

    I mean, I’m not surprised given things I’ve heard and my dealings applying to other jobs at same company, but to be told to my face they’re actively doing this… it’s just all the more demoralizing, disheartening, I don’t know. On top of an ongoing job search that’s lasted several years, I just feel defeated at this point.

    1. ferrina*

      Wow. That is a deeply unfortunate and unkind transparency in to their thinking/thoughtlessness. I’m so sorry.

      My thought- push as hard as you can for your job to be changed so that you are doing responsibilities that push your career forward. Don’t push for the pay or title (though certainly don’t say no!). You know the pay/title will be a losing battle, so focus on winning the war. Give it 3 – 6 months of the new responsibilities and get some strong accomplishments under your belt. I recommend giving yourself the gift of 3 – 6 months off from applying if you needed it. While it would be great to keep the search going (especially since there’s a lot of worker transition), it sounds like you may need to pause for a bit and recharge. Recharging is important- it is an investment in your future. In 3-6 months you can rewrite your resume with your new accomplishments and get out of there.

      Good luck!!

    2. Anonymous Hippo*

      I would 100% mention you hope they intend to talk to you about how much work they can offload to you without changing your job description and pay. Someone that oblivious may need a smack upside the head.

  70. AnonaLlama*

    Not sure if this has been covered many times before in the open thread but here goes:

    Any other work blogs/sites like AAM that you all like to read?

    Obviously there’s Captain Awkward for personal stuff but would love to hear some other voices talking about workplace issues.

    1. Massive Dynamic*

      Umm….r/antiwork. But it’s more about lifting blinders off of people’s eyes on how various work situations are Not OK.

    3. Who to read*

      The Moneyist and Slate’s Pay Dirt for financial questions. Care and Feeding for family issues. Dear Prudence for social issues.

  71. need lawyer advice*

    A lawyer sent me a subpoena via email last night at 11:45 for some data at work. The server that holds that data is currently down. I am not in IT, I am just a data analyst. IT says they don’t know when the server will be fixed. The subpoena says that if I don’t provide the data by 4pm today, I have to go to court on Monday at 8:30 on the other side of the state. I have reached out to our attorneys but have not heard back. I am in an anxiety spiral. I have no idea what to do.

    1. Zona the Great*

      Nice tactic there, lawyer. It won’t work. There’s nothing reasonable about the time given to meet the request. Also, you’re simply not the appropriate person to reach out to. Don’t worry. Call court on Monday and explain to the judge’s clerk. This guy is a schmuck and I bet the judge already knows that.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You do NOTHING. This is your legal department’s to handle, not yours. I am not a lawyer, but it sounds very strange to me that you would be personally subpoenaed for a company issue. Forward this to your manager, follow up with your attorneys.

    3. L. Ron Jeremy*

      Get yourself an attorney and have him contact them. I’ve never heard of a subpoena being emailed and I would be concerned about data security.

      1. Glomarization, Esq.*

        I have received and responded to e-mailed subpoenas. The problems here are the timeframe and the OP likely not being the correct target because they don’t have custody and control of the data. But e-mailing the subpoena in and of itself is not a problem.

    4. need lawyer advice*

      Update: IT was able to provide the data. Our city attorney refuses to answer my or my manager’s emails.

      But I have another question. This guy is apparently not a lawyer but an investigator for a lawyer. He is taking an old subpoena, scanning it into the computer, and editing it as a pdf. Leaving in the signature from the original subpoena. Do I have to respond to that at all? It seems shady as hell!

      1. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

        absolutely shady. I’d consider emailing the judge that signed the original subpoena to let them know someone was forging documents.

      2. Glomarization, Esq.*

        This is a problem for lawyers, not this forum. Without knowing whether this is a civil or criminal case, or whether it’s in state or federal court, and without seeing the actual subpoena, the answers you get here will be so uninformed that they could be actually damaging for you. I’m an actual lawyer (or am I? I’m a pseudonymous stranger on the internet, after all) and the only thing I will say is that it’s not unheard of for a subpoena to be sent by e-mail.

      3. CTT*

        OMG. Report him and the lawyer who engaged him to the state bar association as soon as possible.

        Also, did IT respond to the fake subpoena request without consulting the lawyer? I know you said you couldn’t get an email back, but I would call them instead.

      5. LadyByTheLake*

        OMG — send it to your workplace’s attorney — don’t hand the information over, don’t do anything unless instructed to do so by counsel for the entity that is holding the information.

  72. Butters*

    Anyone experiencing extreme burnout? I’m assuming mine is at least partly due to the last year and a half/COVID environment. I really think that I could stay in my current job if I could take a sabbatical or extended vacation but due to staffing issues and hard due dates that’s not an option for me. We just came out of a busy/stressful time and I was looking forward to a cool down/catch up period and was just handed a difficult project in addition to my regular tasks. The new project is in a different area of expertise than my current role and I’m struggling with being in the details of both areas. I’m delaying looking for a new job because my job is objectively good, I am fairly compensated and I also hate to leave them with this giant pile of crap work. Not sure what I’m looking for with this post, maybe just solidarity that others are burned out too? If you have dealt with burnout how did you get past it?

    1. StudentA*

      Story of my life, so I don’t have any advice. Just commenting on the irony that the next comment below you is on the same topic!

    2. You get a pen and you get a pen*

      I was JUST talking to a friend about this yesterday.

      Since the pandemic hit, I’ve changed jobs FOUR TIMES. The first was a COVID related layoff so that one was out of my control. But then I mistakenly jumped into another job out of sheer panic of losing the prior one and landed in a no-so-great fit. I then moved to a job that was an awesome five minute commute – but quickly found out that situation was a VERY bad, very abusive work relationship. I am now a few months into a new job & am struggling to find any motivation at all. My boss has stopped showing up for work and I’ve not been trained yet. And yet…I just continue to lack motivation to make a change.

      I look forward to constructive criticism on how to get past this feeling of fatigue.

    3. ferrina*

      I just had an employee leave for this reason. Liked the company well enough, liked the work and the team, but the Covid experience was just too much and she needed a fresh start.

      What if you tried looking around? You don’t need to leave your job just because you get an offer, and it will give you a sense of what’s out there. If you find a job you like, great; if you don’t, your current job is still “objectively good.”
      In the meantime, my advice is to 1) set a timeline for when you’ll gtfo. How long are you willing to push yourself? 2) Set a vacation time. You need it. Take a week and fully unplug. Make sure this happens within the next 2-3 months. 3) Set time aside for things that bring you joy. Seriously. What is making you happy and relaxed right now? Prioritize that and make sure you have several hours to do that every single week. 4) Be honest with those around you. You don’t need to say “I’m burned out”, but you can certainly say things like “Whoa, my brain must still be fuzzy from the busy season! I’m sorry, can you explain that again?”

      Good luck, and sending you good wishes!

  73. Fae Kamen*

    Hi all, I’m hoping for some tips on organization-wide burnout. I’m a new manager at a direct services nonprofit that has been overwhelmed by the pandemic since day one, and it’s not getting better. We’re still getting more clients than ever; more of them are more desperate than ever; and it takes longer to help each person because of complex and ever-changing state, local and federal emergency laws. We’re also growing rapidly, in part because of emergency funding for these issues, but that comes with its own issues and can even end up increasing the workload on existing staff. It’s starting to impact, not just the staff ourselves, but also how staff interacts with clients. Both staff and clients are on edge.

    What are actually useful things that managers / the organization could do to help ease this burden on staff? I can already predict that some of the material things that seem obvious, like days off or increased compensation, will be hard sells because of the impacts on clients, requirements about when we’re open, and restrictions on how to use funding. I’m still learning how to navigate these issues and happy for any advice re pushing on them, but also interested in other ideas that may be less obvious.

    Thank you in advance, I appreciate you.

    1. Parakeet*

      As someone in a similar situation (but not a manager, so I have less advice on pushing them)…

      The hard-sell material things that you mentioned, of course.

      Making sure, to the extent possible, that people are cross-trained enough (e.g. across direct service teams, across admin functions) that if someone takes a few days (or more) off, it doesn’t bottleneck or excessively burden everyone else.

      Making sure that open positions are circulated enough that they have a decent shot of getting filled reasonably quickly.

      Making sure that growth of direct service, admin, and outreach/communications functions, are reasonably in balance with each other (e.g. if you hire several people in outreach/comms while direct service is still understaffed, it’s likely going to mean even more clients for overworked direct service workers).

      Streamlining onboarding and training of new staff so that they can be productive in their roles as soon as possible, thereby hopefully easing the burden on existing staff.

      If possible given funding constraints, considering shutting down or reducing some specific piece of the work until there’s capacity to do it again.

      1. Fae Kamen*

        This is a great list—which may be partly a reflection of the fact that it’s a perfect blend of things I already do, things I need to do better, things I have an opportunity to do, and things I have little ability to do. That’s the reality of this problem: I can impact it but it’s bigger than me. Thanks for sharing. And I hope things improve at your work soon too.

    2. ferrina*

      Parakeet has a lot of great suggestions!

      Other thoughts:
      – Thoughtful managers can do a lot for their team. Check in regularly on both work and how they are doing with stress; cross train so you can give people breaks, and actively encourage people to take breaks. With some people, it helps to literally say “I’m encouraging everyone to take a day off in the next month. Let’s talk about when a good time is for you to take off.” (note: you have to be sensitive to folks’ PTO situations for this to work)
      I like to meet with each team member once a month to just talk about how things are going. We have coffee, chat about life, then I directly ask how their workload is and what I can do to make their life easier. I’m clear that I can’t promise anything, but I will push through what I can. And they know I will- I regularly advocate for reasonable timelines, reshuffle work as needed and jump in to help when I can.
      -Don’t downplay their stress. It’s there, and it’s okay to acknowledge it.
      -Keep hope and share that hope. “Yes, it is bad now. But I know it will get better. We are actively trying new things to ease the burden, like X and Y. How do you feel like those are going so far?” This is especially important with team leaders. Leaders have a very strong impact on morale.
      And if someone says they want to leave, but kind. “I selfishly want you to stay because I love working with you and you do great work, but as a human being, I completely understand. If you want, I’m happy to be a refence for you and brag about your work on ZYX.”
      -Celebrate victories. Both individually and as a company. Let staff know that they are seen and their work matters. This is where it’s important to know what your staff do and how it all builds up to support your mission.
      -Be as flexible as you can and take opportunities for little things. If one day is particularly light, send staff home early and finish the day with a skeleton crew.
      -Really, really clear communication. Make it really easy for staff to get the info to do their jobs. I’ve done this different ways based on the job- a weekly email with all of the info you need to know, or a weekly small team meeting, or both. Not having the info you need is the WORST, and it’s easily solvable.
      -Is there a one-time PTO that you can offer? A 2021 bonus day? It may be easier to add an extra day (or two) of PTO to everyone to be taken within the next month (or two months)- “work with your manager to schedule it; we obviously can’t close for two days due to client needs, but so we doing the best we can and staggering breaks for everyone.” Emphasize to managers that you need this to happen and help them reorganize the work so it can happen.

      Good luck!

      1. Fae Kamen*

        Thank you Ferrina. I’m gratified to see that I already practice (or push for) many of these suggestions. There are also one or two I’ve struggled with, and your post is helping me think through how to do them better.

  74. StudentA*

    Anyone else *very* skeptical about all this “Great Resignation” baloney? It’s been all over the media the past few days and all I’ve been reading and hearing is lacking actual data. I find it really shady on the media’s part that they are sensationalizing this subject that relates to people’s livelihoods.

    1. Butters*

      Very anecdotal, but in my fortune 100 company we have experienced A LOT of retirements. Also noticed that it’s getting harder to find good applicants for people with 3-5 years of experience in accounting/finance.

      1. CBB*

        The retirement thing doesn’t surprise me. I rarely look at my 401(k), but when I did recently I was pleasantly surprised by how much was in there. I guess the stock market is doing well?

        On the other end of the spectrum, it seems like it’s increasingly common and acceptable for young adults to continue receiving support from their parents, which may allow them to be pickier about what kind of work–and how much work–to do. (I think this is a good change in our culture.)

    2. Zona the Great*

      It is so so hard to say but I also wonder. I live in a very large city that has a lot of the country’s call centers and processing centers. Also manufacturing. Simply put–there are tons and tons of open jobs here yet we have a disturbingly high unemployment and homelessness rate. I just don’t know what is really going on. I’d guess the problems lie more in our collective culture as Americans.

    3. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Honestly, I think at least a portion of the Great Resignation is really the Great Loss of Life. At last count, the US pandemic death toll was 722k, and that’s possibly undercounted. Even if only 25% of those people were in the workforce, that’s 180k fewer workers. That’s a huge number of people, plus all the folks (women) who left due to childcare needs, layoffs that people decided to just use to retire early rather than try to job hunt as an older worker, and people using FIRE or similar early retirement methods.

      The best data on actual resignations I’ve seen comes from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. They call them “quits”. If the numbers for 2021 hold, it does look like we’re going to see more “quits” than the last few years. Links to follow.

      2. PollyQ*

        Add to the death toll the large number of people who survived COVID but have continuing health problems, which may mean that they’re not able to work at all or are no longer able to work the jobs they used to. And then there are all the “retired” people who were providing daycare for their grandchildren.

        Then there’s the larger economic picture. All during the economic recovery of the 2010’s, economists kept wondering why wages weren’t going up, even though unemployment was dropping to its lowest point in decades. IANAExpert, but I wonder if some of the issue is that we’re seeing several years of wage growth hit the system all at once, and employers are getting caught off-guard by it.

      3. RagingADHD*

        I read this week that Covid is now the #1 cause of death for Americans 30-55.

        I bet a lot more than 25% overall were working.

    4. Coenobita*

      We’re seeing a lot of resignations/turnover where I work, and I think it’s mostly people who were ready(ish) to leave in early 2020 and put it off for a year or two due to pandemic uncertainty. So at our org, it seems that we’re just catching up on the past 18 months of turnover all at once.

      1. ferrina*

        Yes, this! I was just saying this to a colleague at lunch- we had a massive stagnation and hiring freezes in 2020/early 2021, so this is two years’ turnover all in six months.
        We’ve also been seeing extremely high turnover. At this point half of my team has been at the company 6 months or less.

    5. Firm Believer*

      What are you skeptical about? Our industry has faced a tremendous amount of turnover. It’s been very challenging. It’s a real thing. It’s not being sensationalized.

    6. AnotherAlison*

      I’m about to start my 2nd new job of 2021, so I don’t think it’s overblown. (I spent 15 years and 5 years at my previous two jobs, and am in a professional, well-compensated role, so this is not like a normal year for me at all.)

      My former department (~60 people) at my old company had 3 key people leave this year (4 if you count me), and I saw 5 people I was working with at my 1st new job leave this year. That company is flying senior construction managers all over the country to juggle jobs because they can’t retain or hire people. It’s real.

      I was talking about it with a friend from my 15-year job, who may retire early next year, and it’s just having a lid on what we will put up with now and the job market is such an employee market that I can easily go somewhere else, where I had to jump through months of interview hoops during past job searches.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Meant to add that my former long-term employer had industry-low turnover historically, so seeing 4 people leave one department in one year for external jobs would be a lot.

    7. FD*

      I think there are very real factors.

      As Kimmy Schmidt, even if we assume that ‘only’ 180k of the deaths were people who were in the workforce, that’s a LOT of vacancies! In addition, it’s likely that a decent proportion of those deaths were people in more senior positions (due to age). That would mean that at least a decent number of people have to be promoted up, and if a lot of people get sucked upwards, that would open a vacuum for the most entry level workers. So maybe an office job that would have required an admin to have a college degree takes a chance on an ex-food service employee with no degree, for instance. That sucks people out of the general labor (restaurants, hospitality, etc.) pool. Also, construction is going CRAZY right now, and a lot of trades will take people without experience, so that sucks more general labor out of the market.

      In addition, as we’ve seen on this site, with child care being a complete shit-show, a lot of people (but especially women) literally CAN’T hold the jobs they did before if they have kids that can’t be left home alone. So that will suck tens of thousands out of the workforce, which exacerbates the other factors.

      Third, a lot of people did rethink their lives during COVID, regardless of whether they were working or not. If they’d already been a little dissatisfied and they see a bunch of new opportunities open up, it only makes sense for them to pursue them. A lot of people who did work all the way through COVID also just got burnt out.

      But where I think you’re right is that a lot of the news is portraying it in…a very particular way which makes is seem like it’s all a bunch of foolish dreamers leaving stable safe jobs to start new (often ill-advised) businesses or to chase their dreams of leisure. That reminds me more of the way people talked about Millenials when I was graduating college in the 2010s and it’s no less annoying now than it was then. There’s a sort of ugly undercurrent of ‘Look at these lazy losers leaving perfectly good jobs’ that I don’t much care for.

    8. Irish girl*

      I am not sure it’s baloney… the amount of people that have been coming and going from my company the last 12 months is at a much greater rate than the prior 12 months and even the 12 months prior to that. Whether that is due to people not moving during the begining of Covid or not liking their current job and seeing a possible change is easier to make in the mostly remote interviewing process. The team i am on only has 2 people in the same role from when i started. New manager included. Also people being called back to the office has turned into a hard line for some people and the same goes for the vaccination mandates.

    9. Maggie*

      Honestly, not really. We’re desperate for employees (for solid salaried jobs with benefits) and clinging to the ones we have for dear life and making concessions we never have before to get people into roles. Most restaurants and service type places (and I live in busy neighborhood where the streets are lined with tons of places per block) have shortened hours or are closing parts of their dining rooms due to low staff. Not uncommon to see a sign that just says “Sorry were closed today because we dont have staff”. And my friends across industries that I chat about with this are having some issues too! So I guess in my mostly anecdotal experience it feels very very real!

    10. Daffodilly*

      It’s not baloney. It’s very real. The data is there if you are willing to see it.
      My industry is experiencing a lot of turnover and a lot of people shifting in and out. People just are not putting up with crap like they used to.
      Schools are struggling to keep classes covered.
      A lot of people have died. A lot of people have dropped out of the work force because of child care issues.
      And people are just tired of being treated like automatons to be leveraged for more profit.
      But hey, just go with your bias and call it baloney because you don’t personally see it.

    11. not overblown*

      At my fortune 50 company we’re definitely experiencing lots of turnover, so no it’s not overblown. and according to a recent all-hands with one of our top executives, it’s not just anecdotal, my org is experiencing a lot more attrition than normal.

    12. MissDisplaced*

      Is the media over sensationalizing this? Yes, the media is wont to do that.
      But it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I work for a very large tech company where pay and benefits are good, we have WFH (most do anyway) and yet we’re still experiencing a lot of retirement and employee churn, and yes also death from Covid (though that is not talked about I know of at least 4-5 people).

  75. run awayyy*

    Hi AAM! First time commenter but avid reader here. This is by no means an urgent question, simply one for my amusement, but here goes:

    How would the good people of AAM rank Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood as a boss?

    Should clarify that I love him as a character and I love the way John Barrowman plays him. But there’s the whole “disappeared for a while without letting anyone know where I was going or when I’d be back” and the “slept with a direct report” things which kind of stuck out to me while watching, and I desperately wanted to know what people think of his management style

    (also, I hope this is okay for the Friday post–if not, let me know and I can post tomorrow!)

    1. Recovering Librarian*

      I love Jack but my first thought is that he’s an HR nightmare. (On the other hand, he would be a million times better than my last boss who micromanaged and bullied me, and about half our dept, into quitting.) I guess it’s a matter of perspective. But as outlandish as he is, he would be a lot of fun. No boring committee meetings there!

      1. run awayyy*

        “HR nightmare” is a great way to describe him, lol. And now I’m thinking of various AAM letters the Torchwood staff could send, Jack included. Like:

        “Hi Alison, my employee hid his (previously human) evil cyborg girlfriend and her life support unit in the basement of the office. None of us knew until the girlfriend went rogue and tried to kill me and my team. How should I respond to this? He’s a good employee and makes great coffee, but is this a fireable offense?”

      2. Elizabeth West*

        This is so true, hahaha.

        “Dear AAM,

        My boss is charming, fun, and very good-looking but also a well-known HR nightmare. I really enjoy working with him, but I’m concerned about how this job will impact my future when potential employers see Torchwood on my resume. Any advice?”

        1. banoffee pie*

          I’ve always liked John Barrowman so I was disappointed when it emerged (no pun intended!) that he’d been getting his d*ick out as a joke on the set of Dr Who and Torchwood. He admitted it and apologised but he’s kind of ruined for me now :(

        2. Anonymous Debbie Downer*

          “I’m concerned about how this job will impact my future when potential employers see Torchwood on my resume. Any advice?”

          Yes, but… there are a whole bunch of red flags, especially the fates of your predecessors and co-workers, that suggest you aren’t going to be around to have to worry about how the job will impact your future when potential future employers see Torchwood on your resume. Working at Torchwood is a real killer. I’m just sayin’.

  76. PX*

    I dont think much advice is needed, but my new manager, who comes from an environment where all she had to do was focus on research and could delegate all the hard work of doing to other people just….delegated a load of stuff to me today so she can focus on the “core” bits of her job and just. lol.

    I dont think she has any idea what being a manager actually entails. I’d be more annoyed about it if I didnt think this actually gave me the opportunity to do some stuff that will look good on my CV.

    But its kind of hilarious how disconnected she is from what she thinks her job should be to what I (and perhaps others) actually think it should be.

    1. This Old House*

      I was in a training yesterday where the presenter said managers should only spend 10% of their time doing, and 90% of their time communicating. This was a training for middle managers, not people whose entire job is setting priorities and directing other people to carry it out. Pushback that staffing levels are not necessarily sufficient to allow all managers to do that little “doing” was met with advice about how we have to get more comfortable delegating and build a culture where we trust our staff, etc., etc. which obviously does not address that the stuff needs to get done and often (especially in public higher ed, which we are) there is not enough non-managerial staff to do it.

      1. Camelid coordinator*

        Thanks for this comment. I have between 1 and 3 staff in my higher ed program office, depending on the year and the circumstances, and it is clear to me that I spend too much time doing the work of our program. It is a bit tough for me since I love our work and got used to doing a large chunk of the work when I had just one other person with me. We have a couple new people (finally!), and this seems like a good time to transition to having the staff do the bulk of our programmatic work. More fuel for the fire is that we have a few administrative things that have to happen this year, and only I can do them.

    2. FD*

      Hrm, that sounds like it might very well be the way she should be handling her job. In a lot of companies, managers really shouldn’t be doing most of the work themselves–their job is to oversee the work that’s being done, hold people to high standards, make sure the team has the resources they need, and act as a buffer with the higher ups.

      In an ideal world, managers really shouldn’t be sole contributors too on a large scale so this doesn’t sound super unreasonable to me unless there’s a lot of other context we’re missing (such as that she isn’t doing those core manager duties).

    3. PollyQ*

      What kind of “stuff” are we talking about? If it isn’t overseeing the work of her team or communicating with higher-ups, then her view might be right (for a given value of “right”.) IME, it’s pretty common for managers to focus on organization & communication and not be doing any nuts-and-bolts “tasks.” And ultimately, what matters is what her boss and perhaps other higher-ups think her job should be.

  77. IMissPotatoes*

    My direct report’s last day is today. We work in a non-profit and she got a great corporate job with a much better salary and benefits. I honestly couldn’t be happier for her. Our organization has had a lot of change/restructure over the last year and it’s been hard on everyone. More hours, salaries briefly cut, expanded territories, the list could go on. I’ve enjoyed working with and watching her grow as an employee this past year and I think this new role is going to be fantastic for her. I was shocked this morning when I realized how sad I am at her leaving, especially because I am happy for her. I don’t know if it’s because I’m also questioning my choice to stay or because I’ll just genuinely miss her… Is this normal to feel sad and a little depressed when your direct report leaves?

    1. Alexis Rosay*

      Yeah, I think it’s normal. I’ve felt sad when direct reports leave, even when, like you, I am super happy for them getting a new and better opportunity.

    2. Fae Kamen*

      Of course, sadness is normal if you liked working with them and they’re leaving! You can totally keep in touch as a professional contact if you want to, which might feel better. There could be other reasons for sadness, too; maybe the change is making you reflect on certain things in your org/position/life. I’d just say that if it’s rising to depression, that might be something to try to think through and keep an eye on. Wishing you the best!

    3. The New Wanderer*

      My previous manager expressed similar feelings when I gave notice, sad that I’m leaving but really happy I found something that is likely a better long-term fit. She has also been in the position of considering other (probably better) outside offers recently but hasn’t taken any of them, so I know that’s part of it too – she chose to stay and is a little sad that I didn’t.

      If it helps, I am also a little sad that I won’t be working with her anymore so it’s definitely reciprocated. When you have a good working relationship, it’s hard to break it up even for a very good reason.

    4. ferrina*

      So normal! A fellow manager just had a direct report leave, and while she is really, really happy for the DR’s new opportunity and the career growth it will mean, she’s really sad to not be working with her. This is especially poignant since she put a lot of emotional energy into being a good manager to her DR (ensuring her workload was okay, providing training and growth ops, giving timely and actionable feedback, etc.).

  78. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    Y’all I feel uneasy about my (successful!) negotiations for my new job & salary, and I’m not sure if it’s because I have reason to, or because I have been socialized to accept what I’m given as a woman and so I feel weird pushing back, or because I actually handled the situation badly.

    Situation is this: I applied for an internal promotion in a different division of my large company, let’s call it Teapot Quality. I had to disclose to my boss when I received an interview, and when she heard I was trying to move up, she worked with her leadership team to get me offered an internal promotion with my current division, let’s call that Teapot Operations. I was offered both a “Program Manager” role of Teapot Operations, and then was also offered a “Manager” position in the Teapot Quality department. Both would be good fits, but the Manager role appealed to me slightly more, though the salary was $6k less than the Program Manager role in Teapot Ops. I went back to Teapot Quality and asked if they could match the other salary. They took more than a week to get back to me, but eventually came up $5k, and I accepted the position of Manager of Teapot Quality, even though the salary was $1k lower.

    As soon as I accepted, I told my boss, and she immediately talked to her leadership and got the offer for Program Manager of Ops increased by another $7k and let me know that they were counteroffering. This is a long story, but to make it shorter, in the extra week the Teapot Quality team was debating coming up to the other offer, I kind of was getting mixed feelings about moving to that division anyway. And I’m really not in the financial position to turn down an extra $8k to do a job I know I would be good at with people I know I like. So I reneged on the Teapot Quality role. Probably burned a bridge over in that division, but I was willing to do it for this counter offer, which was really attractive. So I accepted the verbal offer of “Program Manager, Teapot Ops”.

    Then, because it was a “handshake” kind of offer, I had to officially apply for the position. It took two weeks and an HR screen, but I was finally given the “official” offer from HR….and the salary was $2k less than what they had counteroffered to me verbally. So now I’m not feeling great about it, because I burned a bridge with this other department over getting this higher salary…and I don’t know if I would have done it for the lower number. So I pushed back with HR, explained I had been told verbally that the salary would be $X, not $X-2. They said it was a really great offer and a much bigger jump in salary than most people get when they get promoted. Sure, that’s probably true, but it wasn’t what they actually offered me! Anyway, in the end they did come up to the number they promised in the first place, but I really had to fight for it and it seems like they were reluctant about it. It makes me feel like I can’t trust them? They also indicated in the verbal counteroffer that they felt this would be a stepping stone for further growth within the Teapot Ops division, and now I feel like I can’t trust them in that either. Did I mishandle this in some way? I know going back on an accepted offer isn’t great, but all of this is happening within the same company, where I currently work. I’d love to hear anyone’s thoughts on this situation.

    1. Well*

      It sounds like you never interviewed for the role in the other department, they just jumped in with a large counter offer and THEN you had to apply? If I’m reading that correctly, that’s the first misstep and it’s on the company. It was also a misstep on their part to then reduce the salary. Instead of raising it HR raise it with the person who made that offer.

      1. Anonymousaurus Rex*

        Yes, I had an informal discussion about the role with the person who will be my new manager, but it wasn’t a formal interview. And talking to the person who initially gave me the higher number (my current boss) is how I eventually got them to come back around to the amount I was initially offered verbally. It turned out it was a game of telephone because the higher offer came from my current grandboss to keep me in the division, but my new reporting line will actually be to a different VP level, and it looks like there was a discussion about that salary between the two VPs, but it didn’t filter down to the new AVP/ manager I will now be reporting to, so she went with a (still fair) offer that was $2k lower than what I was told. In the end it just seems like bad communication, but I felt like a jerk asking for more, even though I was only asking for the number that was given to me in the first place.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      You didn’t mishandle this at all, HR did. I especially thought the “but this lower-than-promised salary offer is still really good!” argument was a garbage move on their end and I’m so glad you were able to push back successfully instead of falling for the guilt trip into accepting less than you were told. Ugh.

      I would assume that HR won’t hold this specific event against you in the future, but now you’re aware that you may have to advocate for everything you are due rather than assume things will go as expected.

  79. Executive Assistant*

    I recently transferred internally to a new team, and was added to a group message with others in my role (I am an assistant). Today, one of the other assistants messaged that tomorrow is Boss’s Day with a reminder to celebrate. I know Alison has written about Boss’s Day multiple times, and I am in agreement that it needs to end. I also don’t want to rock the boat, since the assistant community is integral to success in my role. Any advice on how to handle this situation?

    1. Alexis Rosay*

      Personally, if I were very new to a team, I would go along with it this year (as long as the way it’s celebrated is not onerous on employees) and then push back next year when I would hopefully have more cred. But I’m the type who likes to hang back and get a sense of new situations before I act, so YMMV.

    2. Well*

      Are they asking you to join in on something planned or expecting you to organize something on your own? I’d be tempted to pretend I didn’t see it.

      1. Ginger Baker*

        A week in, I would definitely also just feign ignorance. “So busy settling in, I must have missed that altogether!” (if anyone ever asks about it which hopefully they never will…)

    3. ecnaseener*

      By “celebrate” are you expected to plan an event / give a gift / something else ridiculous? Or just say “happy boss’s day” to your boss? If the latter, I would just go with it this year.

    4. RagingADHD*

      What is there to handle? Ignore this person, and tell your brand new boss that you barely know, “Happy Boss’ Day!”

      Do you have enough context to know how the rest of your peers view this? This assistant may be That Person, and most people ignore her.

  80. Post-It Fan*

    At my last job, the desk I inherited had a bunch of partially used pink post-it pads spread throughout the mess in the drawers. I hate pink, but used them because it’s be wasteful not to. When I finished them, I was disappointed to find that the only color left in the supply closet was various shades of pink. By the time we needed to order more a year later, I was moving on to a new job.

    Of course the post-it pad left on my new desk was pink, lol. I noticed in the supply closet that there’s a punch of pink ones and a blue and an orange one. Would it be petty to ask if more can be ordered once there’s only pink left?

    2. irene adler*

      Not petty at all.
      Personally, I find it difficult to use the darker colored post-its. Less contrast between the black ink and the paper makes it difficult for me to read the writing. So I do ask for lighter colors when there’s only dark ones available. Or I bring my own.

      Ask that they order for your needs/preferences.

    3. MissCoco*

      I don’t think so. I sometimes see tales of office supply drama and demands on here, but I think most admins don’t really mind a polite request just because it’s a personal preference, as long as the person who asks is courteous and understanding if it’s not possible or just doesn’t happen due to a blanket “no special requests” policy
      I’m a stationery lover, so I never minded buying preferred products when I could, but I probably would have felt different if I was ordering for a larger group.

  81. FS*

    I wrote in back in August about waiting to hear back about an internal position here (https://www.askamanager.org/2021/08/open-thread-august-27-28-2021.html#comment-3526261). Still on phone, please excuse any typos.

    I finally got the offer! They offered me a salary that’s…well honestly, I think it’s a good one (most I’ve ever been paid, at least). However, I also know that the big advice is to NEGOTIATE.

    The thing is, the job title is vague and the job itself is new – they’re basically restructuring the whole dept. The best in salary range I’ve been able to find is basically “40 – 70k”, maybe. I was offered $50k.

    My boss (who is sad to see me go but happy that I’m advancing and thinks I deserve the job) told me to make sure they’re paying what I’m worth. Should I negotiate a bit? The job would be exempt so I’m pretty sure I’d be doing overtime (USA)

    I also want to know: I had a vacation planned a little later, my future boss (should I accept) said we can probably with that out, but should I ask for that in the contract? That vacation will be the first time I’ll see my family in 2.5 years, it’s very important to me.

    1. ferrina*

      Yes, Alison has great advice on this. You can say something like “I was actually hoping for 55k.” Then pause and wait to see what they say (this is the tough part). And if they say “No, we really can’t do that,” you can still take the job at 50k.

      And yes, just tell your boss that you really need that vacation off and you’re happy to do whatever you need to to ensure that happens. Do tell your boss that it’s the first time you’ll see your family- that may put it into context. In most places it would be unusual to put that in to the contract, but if you’re worried, see if there are other ways you can get it in writing (i.e., email). If you need to, there may be other options, like working part-time remotely instead of doing a full vacation.

      Congrats on the job offer!!!

      1. FS*

        I did just that and the outcome was: staying at $50k, vacation was already approved so new boss will honor it. On the salary, the HR rep actually said there’d been 2 days of talk over it since it’s a huge increase from my current position and it’s within market range. New boss apparently said “good on (FS) for doing the research” about it.

        My vacation is secured and the salary is still a 60+% increase, so I’m getting pretty good about the offer!

  82. Proceeding to Part-Time*

    How do I figure out my target salary for a part-time, white-collar, expert-level technical job?

    I’ve been talking to a company for a while about a half time position. They are excited to have me join and I am excited to start working on the problem they have prepared for me, and will be filling a major gap in their skillset. They are onboard with the half time position and next steps are to talk with HR about salary and everything else. This will be my primary paid employment.

    Anyone who negotiated a part time position in a similar soft of area have any tips for:
    – target salary (I am thinking about 60% of my most recent full time salary, which was for a similar type of role)
    – vacation
    – other benefits

    Anything else I should keep in mind?

    1. irene adler*

      Does holiday pay/schedule fall under “other benefits”?
      Because I would want to know – up front- how things like Monday holidays, Thanksgiving and the like would be handled.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Have they said ANYTHING about vacation and benefits yet? I ask because the big company I used to work for did not provide vacation, benefits, or paid holidays for part-time people. They didn’t really have many part-timers, but I did have a coworker with ~20 years experience who cut back to part-time. If you can negotiate for non salary comp, do it, but if it’s not on the table, I’d want to know that before I anchored myself to the 60% salary number. If that last full-time job isn’t current, I’d bump that number up, too. A few other thoughts based on my former coworker’s experience – outline what travel you’re open to and the conditions for that, and the terms of the salary–are you paid at an hourly rate for hours worked? X salary based on 20 hours per week, and it doesn’t change with more or fewer hours? What happens if they would like to have you work more hours for a temporary, peak need?

  83. Not The Terminator*

    Hello! I’m a new manager at MPOW (here less than 6 months), and while I’ve been a manager for a while, I’m having to terminate someone for the first time. It’s absolutely for cause, their behavior caused trauma to other employees, and they have had significant support from MPOW for course correction over the last couple of years, prior to the “last straw” event that’s resulting in their firing.
    I’ve never been fired myself, so I’m finding that I have all kinds of big emotions about letting this person go. For the other managers and administrators here on the thread, how have you handled your own feelings/emotions about firing someone? I don’t want it to spill over onto the other folks who report to me. While I’ve coached people into retirement and had PIP conversations that resulted in positive turnaround, this is new territory! Thanks.

    1. RagingADHD*

      Im not sure whether the acronym stands for something else, or if you are referring to the brand of the same name. If so, it’s extremely inadvisable to identify your company publicly while talking about sensitive personnel matters.

    2. Anony*

      When you actually fire them, keep it brief and don’t go into why they are being terminated at that moment. The good thing is you say they should expect this because there has been a prior process. The most kind thing you can do is to be direct. Definitely make sure to talk out your feelings beforehand with friends, family, etc – not related to the company – so that you avoid getting emotional in the moment.

  84. Mrs. Hoover*

    Do any managers here suffer from secondhand stress? I’m finding that I get more stressed out about my staff’s projects and my boss sharing her crazy days than I do about my own work. It’s starting to give me generalized anxiety and since it’s not stuff that I can do anything about (for the most part) I’m having difficulty shaking it off.

    1. Purple Penguin*

      I’m not a manager, but I do deal with secondhand stressors because I work with traumatized populations. I’d recommend talking to a counselor or therapist or someone who is legally obligated to confidentiality in order “to debrief ” about the coworker stressors you’re taking on.

    2. ferrina*

      No, I don’t get this. I think it’s because I’m usually focused on first-hand stressors (i.e., the things I can control and do to pave the way for my staff). What is it that you find stressful? Is it other people’s stress? If your people are constantly stressed, that is a good thing for a manager to worry about and try to fix. What is the root cause of that?

      If your staff’s stress level is fine, do you have a sense what the target of the anxiety is? Are you worried about quality of work? Loss of control and letting go? (seriously, that is *real* and hits me from time to time) Triangulated stress that is actually from another part of your life? Pandemic-induced general anxiety? If you’re having trouble untangling it, a good therapist can really help.

  85. AllOuttaTime*

    Please tell me about how you successfully negotiated for more vacation/PTO time. I took my current position about a year and a half ago. I was super concerned about the greatly reduced vacation time in the offer than what I have had for literally my entire career to this point, and addressed it with the hiring manager. She assured me not to worry about it, that’s only the “official policy” but unofficially it would be fine to take time as needed as long as I get my work done. I wasn’t thrilled with the response but decided it was worth the risk. Initially, between being new and COVID, the reduced time was not an issue, however, into 2021 it has become a problem: I only have a half a day for the remainder of the year – not even enough to cover my scheduled doctor appointments! If I say I need the time for doctor appointments, I’m sure I will be told to take the time needed but I want to think about the bigger picture or I expect I’ll have the same issue next year.

    1. Jean*

      It sounds like you’ve already been told that it’s fine for you to take the time you need as long as your work is getting done, right? So what is the goal of a negotiation – to get something in writing from your manager? From HR? If getting something in writing from your manager would set your mind at ease, why not just send an email case by case, and archive their response telling you it’s fine to take the afternoon for your appointment, or whatever? Or are you looking for an actual document showing a larger amount of bankable/pay-out-able PTO?

    2. Anonymous Hippo*

      I don’t know how helpful this is, but I simply asked. Was just like, hey, here’s what I handle, here’s my performance, you know how stressful the job is, I want two weeks extra vacation. Turns out a new policy was going in place which increased my days by 3, and he gave me an additional week, so asked for 10 got 8. I cried about it because I hate asking for things, but it went fine.

  86. Violet*

    So things at work are still not good and now I’m on an improvement plan six weeks in. It was really disheartening to say the least, but I have to admit they are really trying to help me. Part of the issue, I think, was me working from home and my supervisor not really seeing what I was doing. Now, I can sense a bit of a change in tone as we are two days into the plan and they can see from watching my screen what I’m doing. I also think I needed a bit more time and more verbal communication. I’m still slow, but I’m less nervous which improves my performance overall. It’s going seemingly in the right direction.

    That said, I read those comments about performance plans on this blog earlier this week and I don’t want to stay here for five years. That would be a triumph but I just think I should be looking for something else. And my frame of mind is kind of shot for being in this situation altogether. I don’t want to work at a place with this pressure to perform. I feel like I’ve been job seeking all year and it’s not over. I get so dispirited because I can’t get a sense of the nitty-gritty of these jobs until I’m in them and that feels really late.

    So sometimes people leave because there isn’t peace of mind anymore. I left my old job to get that. I had three weeks of peace. So I’m trying to compartmentalize. But that’s not great for job seeking, either! After work and during lunch, I just don’t want to think about work at all after thinking about jobs for almost all of the last ten months.

    Writing here helps. Thanks for listening.

    2. ecnaseener*

      I will say, you don’t have to stay for 5 years to make the PIP worth it! Successfully completing it and then finding a better job 6 months later would still be way, way better than being fired now.

      1. Violet*

        I agree. But wow, more job seeking. :-( It’s so hard to find a good place to be that’s a good fit for me. I’m so weary of looking but I think you’re right.

    3. Leslie_NopeNopeNope*

      I definitely agree with sticking it out so you can hopefully complete the PIP and leave on your own terms. You said you don’t know the finer details of these roles before you take them, what about viewing this as training/experience, and then looking for a similar role at another company? That way you could get a fresh start but you wouldn’t be back to square one.

  87. Lizy*

    How do the “points” work for US government jobs?

    A little background: I found out recently that I would be eligible for “derived preference” for government jobs. Essentially, I would get 10 preference points on my application (at least, I think that’s how it works).

    But… what does that MEAN? Like, how are points given/determined? Do you have to have a certain number of points to even be considered for a job? Do people with more points have a better chance at getting hired for a position? My Google-sleuthing has yielded a bunch of websites with a bunch of words, but nothing… informative. Please give me your know-how knowledge :)

    1. Brett*

      This is a really good explanation of how preference points work:
      https://www.military.com/benefits/veteran-benefits/veterans-employment-preference-points.html
      Basically, you get that many points added to your exam score if selection is by competitive exam. If selection is by resume and interview, then your experience on your resume will receive a rating, and after those ratings are assigned you will have 10 points added to your score. Not all government positions use a selection list and points system.

  88. SnowWhiteClaw*

    So, can someone tell me if this is normal or a reason to leave a job?

    – Manager brags about physically fighting with their neighbors
    – Manager nonchalantly says “You’ll probably get yelled at.”
    – Manager casually mentions getting in screaming matches with past and present employees.

    This is making me really uncomfortable and I want to leave. Please let me know if this is normal, I welcome any advice on the situation!

    2. Colette*

      None of these are normal or acceptable. Whether you should leave is a different story. (How long have you been there? How long was your last job? Do you feel personally threatened? Is the yelling actually happening and, if so, how does it affect you?)

      1. SnowWhiteClaw*

        I’ve been here for about 4 years. My last job was in grad school so it was only about a year, though I have 20+ years of work experience (I’ve been working since I was 15).

        I feel very anxious but not personally threatened. The yelling is happening but it’s not every day. I am having a really hard time dealing with it since I was abused as a kid.

        1. Colette*

          Then definitely look elsewhere. The only reason to stay would be if it would be worse for you to leave (e.g. if it made you look like a job hopper), and that’s not an issue for you.

    3. Brett*

      #3 would do it for me by itself without the other two. The other two just add context on top of that one that your manager considers intimidation to be acceptable.

    5. irene adler*

      Not normal.
      Ask yourself: why does manager feel the need to tell you these things?
      There’s no good answer to that question.
      Go with your gut on this. You are uncomfortable for a reason. Don’t stick around to find out how ugly things might get with this manager. Scram ASAP!

      Just to put this into perspective:
      There’s a manager here, where I work, who is very proud at how he treats employees-reports & co-workers. He has no compunction over yelling at anyone when he feels he needs to (I’ve been on the receiving end of a few of his tantrums!). And he justifies it with statements like, “I’m not here to be liked.” I can tell you from experience, people who have no issues with yelling/screaming at others are not good people to be around on a consistent basis.

    6. Purple Penguin*

      After having had a boss like this, one who foreshadowed what I could eventually expect from them, I now try to believe people when they tell me who they are.

      This manager is telling you that they think screaming is an acceptable form of standard professional and neighborly communication. I would start looking for other positions as well as prepare to document (who, what, where, when, how) if/when this manager begins screaming at you. Maybe also prepare deep breathing exercises to calm yourself if you’re startled by screaming (Think of it as a fire drill. We do drills so we know what to do if there is an emergency. A screaming manager is kinda an emergency.).

    7. Free Meerkats*

      All good reasons to be looking – right now.

      And first chance when things are quiet and relaxed, have a little chat with boss and say, straight out – no softening, “The first time you yell or scream at me will be the last. I’ll pack my shit and walk out before your spittle has hit the ground.” Then do it when (not if) it happens.

    8. RagingADHD*

      Your manager is a loon.

      Now, don’t freak out. It may or may not be a situation where you urgently need to bail right now. Jumping really fast can lead to a series of desperation jobs that get progressively worse.

      If they are saying this stuff but not actually screaming at you, you have ample time to start looking and find a better situation. But I would definitely take it on board and use the time to screen potential jobs very closely.

  89. Fae Kamen*

    Second question from me, new manager. I’ve read on here about how most people don’t submit cover letters; I’ve hired a couple times and never experienced this, but this time, 4 out of every 5 people is not submitting a cover letter. I do understand that many people aren’t taught these conventions and I definitely don’t want to penalize people for that… but I also feel like I made it very clear that this application requires one. It’s underlined in the application instructions. I added a mandatory screening question on the listing sites that asks applicants to confirm that their attachment includes a cover letter as is required. Multiple people responded yes to this and then did not submit a cover letter. Or they just responded no! What is going on. Am I going crazy. Should I give up. ETC. Thank you for listening to my question/rant.

    1. Jean*

      Just out of curiosity, aside from the concerns about people disregarding the explicit instructions in the posting, what is the reasoning for requiring a cover letter? Is it to have a writing sample, or is there some other actual substantive reason that one is NEEDED and not just “nice to have”?

      1. Mental Lentil*

        I for one want to know that people are actually interested in THIS position with THIS organization, and not just sending out hundreds of resumes in an attempt to see what will stick.

        Job hunting is hard work, but sites like Indeed that let you apply to multiple positions with the click of a button make it a little too easy. If this is your approach to finding a job, what is your work ethic going to be like once you actually have the job? If you’re being this lazy in a job search, I can only imagine how lazy you will be once you’re behind a desk.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Do you also have wording in the job post that specifies why you want it?

          I’ve seen listings that say, “Please include a cover letter outlining your interest in this position and our organization. Applications without a cover letter will not be considered.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. If it’s not included, you might try it and see if it cuts down on some of the resume bombings.

          1. Fae Kamen*

            No, I didn’t have that. I like that suggestion as a way to provide context for people who are not as familiar with cover letters. Thank you.

        2. Fae Kamen*

          Just for the record, this isn’t my reasoning. I don’t assume it’s out of laziness—even resume-bombing I would not necessarily attribute to laziness. What I look for in a cover letter is also a bit different. I sometimes find the answer to your question illuminating, but it’s not one of my primary concerns.

      2. Fae Kamen*

        I’m not sure where the line between “needed” and “nice to have” is for you, but I have found that I learn a lot more from a cover letter than from a resume. I’m sure that’s less true for some fields, but I think Alison has done a good job explaining the substantive benefit of cover letters on this blog.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      For the applicants not including a cover letter, can you tell if they are actually serious applicants, or are they resume bombing?
      Given all the steps you’ve taken to make it clear that a cover letter is mandatory, please do not feel bad about automatically excluding someone who is blatantly ignoring instructions. I don’t think there’s anything else you can do to make it more clear. Even if you have a separate upload field for just the cover letter, I’ve seen applicants upload so many things that are *not* a cover letter to that field.

      1. Fae Kamen*

        Judging only by the work history (which, after all, is all I have to go on) I think it’s a mix of resume bombing and more specific intent.

        Anything fun ever get uploaded to the cover letter field, or just certificates and such?

    3. Person from the Resume*

      If you get enough good applicants with cover letters, just ignore the ones who can’t follow instructions (which are repeated a couple of times throughout the application process) and feel no guilt about it.

      If you’re not getting enough good applicants with cover letters, you may have to look at the ones without.

      It would be cruel during the interview to ask “The application instructions said to submit a cover letter with your application and you didn’t. Can you please explain?” I’m betting the most common answer would be that they didn’t have a cover letter/didn’t want to spend time writing it and was hoping it didn’t matter. Also they are resume bombing and didn’t actually pay much attention to your ad.

      1. Fae Kamen*

        Hah, definitely wasn’t planning on raking anyone over the coals! Agreed all around. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  90. Seething*

    For my fellow lawyers. I spent a few hours yesterday fixing contract drafts for my internal client (I’m in-house) that he not only f’ed up, but did without using Word’s track changes function. I basically had to completely restore them to the original forms and then re-draft all the changes needed to cover this next stage in our project. This morning, he forwarded my versions to the vendor, saying that my edits were “just wordsmithing” and “not substantive.”

    So, I get one free murder now, right?

    1. Ginger Baker*

      IANAL but you may be limited to “steps on Legos every day of his life from here on out” due to contractual obligations not to murder coworkers.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      You get free reign about the not-tracked-changes, but I’d ignore the “just wordsmithing” comments. I always tried to play down the changes my side makes, but I also kept a good relationship with our paralegal and lawyers so they knew I was actually on board with them. My company was super difficult to get through contracts with, and clients and partners (their non-legal team members) totally freak out based on the volume of red in a mark-up. OMG, we’re going to have to reeaaddd alll thissss. It will take forever and we’re not going to get to signnn theee contractttt on tiiiimme.

      1. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Yeah, I’d take the “just wordsmithing” and “not substantive” as assurances to the vendor that there were no surprises or unfairnesses in the documents. They weren’t a literal comment on your workmanship, aimed at you. They were aimed at getting the vendor to agree to the changes and sign the documents.

        As for not using track changes, there’s a reason why I keep local copies of every damn version of a document I create, with dates in the filenames. And that reason is colleagues and clients who can’t or won’t use track changes.

      2. Law School*

        Agreed, I’ve been the client in this situation and I’m training to become the attorney, and that’s absolutely something I would do to prevent alarm on the vendor’s part. Some vendors really do freak and try to cancel the deal over a lot of redlines and they see it as the company being unhappy with the deal they’re getting, business-wise.

        I’d never do the no track-changes thing though.

    3. JB*

      Well, it’s a contract. You understand he’s playing down the changes as part of the negotiation and not to insult you, right? Like surely you understand why “we made some HUGE changes to your proposal, get ready for this” might not go over well with the other side…or even “I fucked the contract all up, thank god Seething fixed it haha”.

    5. Fellow Lawyer*

      As a lawyer who has been both in-house and in private practice (where outside counsel get MUCH less respect than in-house, IMO) I think you have two separate problems which need separate solutions.

      1) It’s pretty normal for people (including other lawyers) to send over a revised contract and say there are “just a few non-substantive changes.” They’re hoping the other side won’t notice that the contract has been gutted and replaced with totally different terms. There are also business people who characterize everything their lawyers do as “just some legal mumbo jumbo, pay no mind.” It’s annoying but it’s so prevalent that you have to find a way to understand and believe that your work is important to your company even if the business person on your deal doesn’t see it that way and doesn’t appreciate the value you add. You represent the company, not that individual colleague.

      2) Second problem is that your business colleague has a terrible and inefficient way to mark up documents that wasted a ton of your time. I think you should address this with your colleague. Frame it in a way that is not about his dumb method but something like, “I can turn documents back to you (or out to our vendors) much faster if you show your changes as tracked changes. Let me show you how.” Use this as an opportunity to show a good client service attitude. Or only send him drafts for review with track changes turned on.

      1. pancakes*

        Regarding point 1, I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve seen that sentiment expressed in emails that turn up during discovery years later, as if the lawyers were trying to slow negotiations down for inscrutable reasons of their own rather than trying to reduce the likelihood of having to litigate the same issues later. Gah!

    6. Kw10*

      Re not using track changes – you know that if you have the original and the edited version you can use Word’s “Compare” tool and it will basically give you a version in track changes! Just be sure to go to the advanced options and uncheck Formatting, otherwise it can get really messy.

  91. Recovering Librarian*

    I need help with a creepy guy on LinkedIn. A few days ago I accepted a connection request from a man I don’t know. I pretty much accept all requests but I’m not really active on there. He works at a local financial company which is not anything related to my career area. There isn’t a photo attached to his account. So last night he sends me a really chatty message, just “getting to know you, I’m trying to make friends” kind of thing, but the tone was weird and not professional, do you know what I mean? And it didn’t feel at all like a networking kind of thing because my last job was in academia and I haven’t worked in 4 years (health issues). I didn’t respond and then this morning there were 4 more messages, 2 from last night. He deleted one so I don’t know what that said but the others were short and just said stuff like TGIF and comments on the weather. Also he looked at my profile. It sounds like I’m overreacting just reading this, he hasn’t done anything inappropriate, but it just feels . . . wrong and creepy. This is not how you use LinkedIn or am I mistaken? I mean it would be different if he worked at a local university or the research dept at his company, I would assume he was trying to network, but this feels like this guy is trying to chat me up? So how do I respond? Or do I ignore him? Or am I overreacting here?

    2. Hearts and Minds*

      Don’t respond, cancel the connection and ignore any further attempts to reconnect. I’ve had similar experiences, those types are trying to use LI as a dating site. I think they spam as many members as possible til one takes the bait out of politeness.

    3. The Smiling Pug*

      Personally, I would grey-rock his responses and if that doesn’t work, I’d ignore him.

      1. JB*

        This seems like a very bizarre response. You don’t need to grey-rock a stranger online, you don’t owe him any responses at all. Just block him.

    4. Brett*

      I wouldn’t worry about how someone should or shouldn’t use linkedin. He’s making you feel uncomfortable and you don’t know him. Just go ahead and remove him as a connection.

    5. fueled by coffee*

      Ew, this is creepy. Don’t bother responding. Disconnect (un-connect? de-connect?) from him – I’m not sure whether you can block people on LinkedIn, but this is a situation where that would be useful, just so you can put him out of mind.

      It sounds like this guy has no professional ties to you or your field, so I would just ignore him forever (to be clear, even if he was in your field, the “trying to be friends” + unnecessarily chatty comments would also be grounds for ignoring him, but you should feel even less hesitation now).

    7. Maggie*

      Just block him he is a freak. Some people are not aware LinkedIn isnt a dating site. Block and move on, no need to give it a second though.

    8. Me*

      It’s creepy because it’s not a dating site and he certainly seems to be treating it like one.

      Delete the connection.

      You don’t have to justify why a complete stranger is making you uncomfortable. You do not owe a complete stranger your time, an explanation, or even pleasantries.

    9. Exif*

      Since you say he’s at a local financial company, my guess is that he’s trying to small-talk his way into getting your demographics so he can try to sell you banking services. Just disconnect and block.

    10. Person from the Resume*

      Ignore and block. Un-link/friend or whatever the term is on linkedin. Also Block him if possible.

      You’re not overreacting. Yeah, he’s a creep that’s hitting on you inappropriately (linkedin is not for that), but you can make it stop with the click of a few buttons. Do it and don’t give the creep another thought.

    11. Recovering Librarian*

      Thank You everyone! I feel better about ignoring this guy. I will ignore, disconnect, and block (whatever those things are called on LinkedIn) and I’m also going to start being a bit more selective about whose requests I accept.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      You’re not overreacting; he’s being creepy. Block him. You don’t have to explain or respond. From LinkedIn’s Help page:

      To block a member from viewing your profile: (on desktop)

      1. Go to the profile of the person you’d like to block.
      2. Tap the More icon in the top right of the screen.
      3. Tap Report/Block from the dropdown menu.
      4. Tap Block [member’s name].
      5. In the confirmation pop-up window, tap Block.

    13. RagingADHD*

      This is sketch and definitely not how you use Linkedin. You can and should block him immediately without a second thought.

      If he were in your field it would be MORE sketch, not less.

  92. AnonNominations*

    Had something fairly demoralizing happen yesterday, and I am not sure how to approach it.

    We have an annual prestigious award within our company for women and non-binary people within a certain broad speciality, say “Teapot Makers”. Teapot Makers has traditionally been taken as people who paint and glaze teapots. This year, for the first time, it was expanded to include people who throw the clay for teapots, which is what my whole division does, throw the clay for teapots and other products that use clay. I am a non-leadership male ally to the org who grants the awards, doing a small chunk of month to month communication grunt work and participating in the majority of their events.

    When nominations opened up, my grandboss (who was a women and was in charge of the entire division) and I had a 1:1 meeting where the topic of nominations came up and we talked extensively about who to nominate, really wanting to see a clay thrower be included in the winners. She and my boss split nominations between them. I nominated a couple of co-workers, doubling up my grandboss or boss.

    Winners came out yesterday. No one from our org. That’s okay because all the winners were at my grandboss’ level or higher, but she left the company before the winners were chosen. The demoralizing part happened at the end, when they put up a thank you list to all the _nominators_. There was my name. There was my grandboss’ name.

    My boss was not on the list. He had been responsible for all the nominations I would have consider the best possibilities to win, and would have carried more weight than me and probably more than grandboss since she left the company. And, because of that thank you slide, I know he didn’t actually turn in the nominations. The nature of things right now, this is not something I feel I could confront him with or even ask for explanation from him. It is just seems like a piece of disappointment I have to deal with on my own. If anyone has an idea of what more I should do or say, I would be open to listening to that even if it might not be feasible to do.

    1. Me*

      Can you approach it from the stand point of, “hey I was disappointed not to see a member of my team nominated. Of course there’s so many deserving people, it’s hard to narrow down the list of deserving people. But I wanted to get your thoughts on how we can better develop out team for nomination next year? It would be such an honor for someone from our team to be nominated”

      If it was an oversight, he prob wont own up, but he will know he messed up. And hopefully he will remember it next year and not repeat the same.

      1. AnonNominations*

        They didn’t list the people nominated, so I don’t know who was actually nominated except for the people I personally nominated.

        They listed the nominators. And my boss’ name was missing from that list.

        1. Me*

          Still works, just change it from nominate to winners. How can you better position your team to be in the running to win.

          1. Chaordic One*

            Me’s advice is good and worthy of following. Let your boss know (in the nicest way possible) that it looks like he screwed up and failed to follow up with your nominations. The script Me offered is excellent.

            You might also timely follow up by having a little talk with your boss next year to (gently) remind him that he needs to follow up and also nominate people from your department, for the good of morale in your department.

      2. AnonNominations*

        They didn’t list the people nominated, so I don’t know who was actually nominated except for the people I personally nominated.

        They listed the nominators. And my boss’ name was missing from that list.

        1. pancakes*

          How can you be sure his name wasn’t accidentally deleted? You can’t, and I don’t think you can ask him whether he submitted nominations or not without making both of you a little uncomfortable. I think you’re exactly right when you say it’s a disappointment you’ll just have to deal with.

    2. Person from the Resume*

      I don’t know that there’s anything you can do. I appears that your boss agreed to nominate people and didn’t and that is possibly a factor why no one from your division won. I don’t know how to ask your boss if he dropped the ball without it seeming to be calling him out.

      That sucks. I’m sorry.

  93. KJ*

    Any advice on how to create a 3-5 year plan for your career?

    Is this something that is normal not to have?

    I’m trying to decide between two job offers and a mentor of mine advised that I think about how each job might set me up for being where I want to be 3-5 years from now.

    The problem is, I don’t know where I to be. The industry I work in is fine, but it’s not my passion. I’d be happy staying, but also wouldn’t mind exploring something new, I just don’t know what that is. For context, I’m about 3 years out of college and I kinda just fell into doing what I do (there was no plan and it’s not super related to my degree).

    1. Me*

      In general, even if you don’t know what you want to do, you want position that help you grow your skills. Think things like managing projects, collaborating with diverse teams, implementing new software, leadership opportunity, etc. These things provide skills you can take with you across industries.

      You don’t necessary need “a plan” in the sense that in 5 years you want to be a manager and manage a team of at least 5 or be named to the hot 30 under 30., but what you do want to do is evaluate any job opportunity for how it will increase your skill base.

      Also, falling into a job after graduation is normal. Your job not being your “passion” is normal. You will hopefully enjoy your work, but for a whole lot of us we aren’t passionate about our work. We like it, derive satisfaction from it and it pays the bills. Being in the working world can help you figure out what you like and importantly don’t like.

    2. JB*

      The ‘traditional’ approach to career planning is aiming for a specific goal/title, but that’s not suitable for every person or every industry.

      My primary career goal is to continue learning; so when I’m looking at positions, I ask myself, will this give me a chance to learn something new? New skills, new knowledge, etc? Is that new information something I’ll find valuable? (For example, I know that it’s important for someone out there to know how to confirm the veracity of, say, a rennaissance painting, but that’s not something I would find fulfilling to learn personally.)

      It’s worked well for me so far, and it seems to go over well in interviews when the ‘where do you see yourself in x years’ question comes up. So that might be what you want to focus on – not ‘where do you want to be’ in terms of a title or industry, but what fulfills you in general in work? What are your life goals that work might interact with? (Do you want to move across the country in five years? Then you might want a job where you’ll learn widely applicable skills, or maybe for a national company so you can transfer. Planning to start a family? You might want to aim for a high earning position and start saving up. Etc.)

    3. lily*

      I have been in the workforce almost 15 years and I’ve never had a super clear plan of “I want XYZ role in ZYX industry in X years,” and I think being open-minded and not caring too much has led me to a surprising, but really good fit.

      Instead of what kind of job you want, think about what kind of lifestyle you want 3-5 years from now, and what you need from your job to make that happen. Where do you want to live, how much do you want to travel, what is your family situation, etc. Salary is a part of that, but so are things like flexibility or remote work. Certain industries/organizations might pay better or offer better benefits. Small organizations have pros and cons compared to big corporations.

      For example, I moved from a big corporation to leading a team at a smaller organization recently. Not because it gets me any closer to some “dream role” but because I’m planning to have kids in the next 2 years, and this gives me more leeway to take maternity leave without worrying about falling behind in the competitive corporate rat race. I also chose to work in a relatively “boring” industry because the pay is great – zero regrets!

  94. Lady Elaine*

    Tl;dr: How do I get a reference from my current employer (my last job ended over five years ago) when they have a policy of providing only employment verification?

    I work at a tourist site that employs a lot of young people and sees a lot of turnover. I’ve been here over three years, making me relatively senior in my role, and have been seeking other employment off and on for more than half that time; it’s been an interesting and decent place to work, but it’s not aligned with my career goals. When I first started looking around, I (foolishly?) informed my manager, and asked if I could use her as a reference. She said, “yes,” but then explained that they only provide employment verification; in my head I thought, “So you meant to say ‘no.'”

    Somewhere along the way, after getting few bites with my resume, I decided to study for a certification related to the field of work I want to pursue. I very slowly plugged away at training videos and the like, not in any particular hurry. But I was getting frustrated at work, because I was technically part-time, and other coworkers were getting promoted to full-time, despite their shorter tenure or being less reliable than I was. I couldn’t figure it out, so one day I just straight-up asked my manager, “What do I have to do to make full-time?” She said, “We thought you were leaving. We were planning for coverage for the rest of the year and we said, ‘well Lady Elaine is leaving anytime now, so….'” I guess I was naive, because I knew that at least one of the people who was promoted ahead of me was going to job interviews, but they must not have said anything to management. Lesson learned! Ugh.

    And then COVID, and any port in a storm (they’re still not a bad place to work, and there are some aspects of this job that I really do like) and after having explained to my manager that I wasn’t in any hurry to leave, I was eventually promoted to full-time. And now I’m getting the itch again.

    My last full-time job (and only professional job) ended over five years ago. I’d like to have a more recent reference. If I knew for certain that they would give me one, I wouldn’t be worried about tipping my hand. People leave this job all the time, and they’re reasonable about it. But I don’t want to tip my hand for nothing and risk being kept out of interesting assignments. I still don’t have the certification, but the field I’d like to enter seems more eager/desperate to find entry-level workers, so I’d like to try my luck now and maybe find a gig where I can learn on the job.

    Why do companies do this, refuse to give references? It seems especially problematic when so many of our staff are at their first or second job and have no one outside of school to provide a reference.

    1. Colette*

      Have any of your former managers left the organization? People you used to work with are often good options for references.

      1. Lady Elaine*

        Not my direct managers (my first manager became my grand-boss). Only people who occasionally supervised my work but were not people managers, and we didn’t overlap long before they left.

    2. CBB*

      I’m curious about this. Hiring managers, if you call a candidate’s reference and their policy is to only verify the dates employment, is that a red flag?

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        It’s not a red flag but it’s also not super helpful. If they were up against someone with robust references it might be a point against them. I’d advise listing references you know will talk to someone and leaving off places that only verify employment unless it’s to…verify employment.

        That said, explain that! Peer references, school references, other references that may be “second tier” as professional references are fine if you say “x place officially only verifies employment so feel free to call them but here are others who can speak more openly about my work”

    3. Massive Dynamic*

      When I was a manager at a company like that, I told direct reports who left that I couldn’t give a reference while I was still there…. but then once I also left, I gave full references. And when I was looking to leave, I used former bosses who I worked with there, obviously not my current boss. So basically we all only felt bound to that rule while we worked there, not after.

  95. Purple Penguin*

    Would love to hear from anyone with experience in getting or hiring for jobs that say that you “must be able to obtain a security clearance” without already having a US security clearance.

    How is this ability judged? In practice, are such jobs geared for early career professionals without much work or international experience? Would long term living abroad be a red flag for hiring managers for such positions or would that depend on the industry (eg DOD vs international relations)?

    1. Colette*

      I suspect what would happen is you apply for the job, go through the process, and get offered the job contingent on getting the security clearance. If you pass the security clearance, you start work; if not, you are told they are recinding the job offer since you don’t have the security clearance.

      The security clearance would be done by someone other than the hiring manager (I assume), so they wouldn’t be concerned about living abroad. The details would probably matter, too – you’d probably find it harder to pass the security clearance if you were living in North Korea than if you were living in Germany.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        The government security clearance could take months or years. Hopefully they’ve gotten it down to less than a year, but for a while there was an extremely long backlog.

    2. Exif*

      It can depend on your travel habits and who you associate with. For example, I work in O&G, so I have a lot of professional contacts in the Middle East. I have been told by recruiters that getting a clearance would probably take longer for me than for the average US applicant, so I’m less desirable.

    3. House Tyrell*

      The security clearance process can be lengthy, time consuming, and expensive. Depending on what kind of clearance you’re trying to obtain and for what role, you should already be able to know if you will be disqualified or not. Drug use is a red flag, especially depending on what kind of drugs and how recently you used. Dependence on psychiatric medication or a history of psychiatric facility visits is usually a barrier for top secret clearance- if you forget to or are unable to take it for whatever reason, are you going to have a psychotic episode and betray state secrets? Financial troubles and the ability to be blackmailed are a big issue to look at. Do you have staggering, debilitating levels of debt, do you have a gambling problem that could be taken advantage of? Is there anything your could be blackmailed for that would make you a risk of giving up state secrets? They’ll need to know who your contacts are in foreign countries, how you know them, what they do, and how often are you in contact. What were you doing abroad for so long? Having roommates who are not US citizens or with family who are not US citizens will add time. One of my friends in college interned with an intelligence agency and they did a full background check on the person he shared a room with and another roommate who was not a citizen.

      The jobs range from early career on to high level positions. Clearance isn’t really about how much job experience you have. Certain jobs and types of clearance will look at living abroad differently. Some levels of security clearance require nothing more than a standard background check with maybe some additional reference and financial checks. Others require over a year of investigation, polygraphs, interviews, etc and if you’re going to fail after that because you smoked weed 6 years ago instead of 7 or more then don’t apply.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Disclosure: I’ve been in and out of DoD work from the late 80s to about 2012.

      tl;dr: it depends, a lot, on the specifics.

      Long-term living abroad can be a red flag, but especially so if you were in an adversarial country (Russia, China), a country under sanction by the US (Myanmar, Yemen), or a country with significant international crime and corruption problems (there are countries that fit this bill all over the world).

      If you were in, say, Germany or Canada or Japan, and had a stable life (employed or full-time student, didn’t change apartments more frequently than every year, didn’t disappear for months at a time), then the documentation process will be more arduous for you and it will take longer, but it won’t necessarily hurt your chances of getting a clearance.

      I will say that it’s more likely that hiring managers will just turn your resume down if they see you have a complicated history and they have other candidates with plain vanilla backgrounds.

      All of this assumes, however, that you aren’t hit by any of the other no-nos for security clearances, like:
      * felony conviction
      * alcoholism or drug addiction
      * problem gambling
      * failure to pay taxes
      * close family members in adversarial countries

    5. James*

      There are certain things where you know you’re going to fail. Like, for example, one subcontractor who had a felony drug conviction–he knew he wasn’t going to pass, so he couldn’t be on certain jobs (we worked with that sub a lot). Basically, it’s a way to quickly weed out the applicants that obviously won’t meet the requirements. You can still fail for non-obvious reasons, but that statement reduces the candidate pool and prevents wasted time/effort.

      As for who these are geared towards, again it depends. Some are geared towards former military personnel. Some just happen to be somewhere that you need clearance to get access to (civilian contractors, data analysts, communications, you name it). I’ve known people who had to go through clearance screening to sample a groundwater well. It just depends on where you are, what you’re doing, and who’s in charge.

    6. Person from the Resume*

      – How is this ability judged?
      Do you have any deal breakers that will prevent a security clearance? The security clearance process is reasonably well documented. I held a clearance for over 15 years. Never worried about renewal except it was a pain in the ass to list everywhere you lived and provided a different contact for each time you lived there. But the company does not want to waste time on someone who will fail the clearance and never be able to do the job.

      – In practice, are such jobs geared for early career professionals without much work or international experience?
      No. It just means the job requires a security clearance because you will be working with some sort of classified information. Job experience or level has nothing to do with it. Since getting a security clearance is costly, they only require it if you will be working with classified material.

      – Would long term living abroad be a red flag for hiring managers for such positions or would that depend on the industry (eg DOD vs international relations)?
      Where you lived matters. Did you live in Russia or China versus Canada or western Europe? I don;t know for sure, but I think the same rules apply for DoD or state department. A Secret clearance is a Secret clearance in both. A Top Secret clearance is the same in both.

    7. Brownie*

      Seconding all of what Person from the Resume said. It also matters if you have dual citizenship, you will probably be asked to renounce the non-US citizenship in order to get the clearance. There are official lists from the DoD of things that will disqualify you for a security clearance online if you search for them, use those as the list to check against as things like felonies or past drug addictions have levels of distinctions and aren’t yes/no.

      Honestly, a security clearance isn’t that big of a deal for most people, even if they lived overseas. Just be honest and upfront, the biggest thing the investigators look for is attempts to hide or fudge things. And, if it’s like most clearance jobs I’ve seen, they’ll hire you and have you working on non-clearance stuff until they can do the clearance investigations. That could be 3 months, it could be 2 years depending on the clearance investigators’ load. They can fire you if you fail to get the clearance and you’re past the normal probation time limit, but they’ll give you at least 2 weeks notice first usually. And talk to your new coworkers about the process, they’ll have lots of tips for filling out the paperwork, how many personal references you’ll need, that kind of thing which is experienced knowledge.

  96. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

    Venting: My boss has been pushing for a promotion and raise for me for two years. In 2020, everything was frozen (I was willing, even happy, to take the promotion without the raise, but nooooooo, not allowed), and now they’re dragging their feet and I’m wildly frustrated.

    An opportunity at another prestigious company just opened up, and I’m definitely applying, and I am so mad I can’t put the title I should have had two years ago on my résumé.

    (There are some other other things stressing me out right now, and this is just something I can be angry about, I know.)

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      You can always sneak the bigger title into the description. “Served as Llama Groomer Team Lead doing x, y, z”

      1. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

        I know but it would be SO MUCH MORE IMPRESSIVE in the line by itself. /whines

  97. AnotherAlison*

    I’ve written here a bunch lately about getting a new new job and leaving my new job that I started recently. One of the main reasons was because it was chaotic. There is a lot of turnover and people moving around internally (like, hiring a guy for “X” and asking him to move to “Y” 3 months later), or we’re ‘all in’ on llama grooming but don’t put together a plan and 3 months later we decide no more llamas, only sheep herd management now.

    Well, I’m almost done with my notice period, and I found out my department manager (who has been there a little over a year) is taking on a completely new functional role. My counterpart is now going to report to our grandboss and the functional department we were a part of is essentially reverting back to its former structure. While my boss was an exec, the replacement would be a manager. All this time, my boss has been saying send people to her for XYZ when I leave, as no one has been hired yet, and she knew she would not be in the role anymore. It’s so weird. And, long story but it also explains why after she sent me off on a temp assignment and I returned, she still sat in all the Goat Feeding meetings even though I was in charge of Goat Feedings for our function and perfectly capable of handling it. She is taking over the Goat Feeding P&L ownership and wanted to stay close to it. It also explains what the heck she was doing there. Her tolerance for the place and what she was doing vs. what her experience was in made no sense. Now it does.

    I am so happy I’m out of there. If I had felt any loyalty that drove me to stay, I’d have been pretty pissed to find this out. I’m definitely curious to know what the two people she’s hired in the last month think.

  98. Bayta Darrell*

    I know it’s getting late in the day by AAM standards, but I need some help. Every month I put together a newsletter that goes out to employees to keep them up-to-date with what’s happening in various departments. I email all the department heads asking them to send me things, and then they reply with what they want, and I put it together in a document and email it to everyone. This process is clunky, and I’m looking for a way to streamline it. I’m looking for a way to basically prompt people that it’s time to give me their stuff, then track who has sent in stuff, who has told me they don’t have anything this time, and who I haven’t heard from. I’d also like to be something that can be saved for later, so if someone is like, “I told you to put X in the newsletter” I have receipts if they did or not. My job uses Office 365, so I had considered just using a form with two questions, with the first being basically “do you have anything to share?” with the option to select no, and then a long form answer box where the “question” is what do you have to share, but these things often include bolded headings (people submit multiple items), or bulleted/numbered lists, and I can’t get formatting to work in the forms answer box. I worry about just using a shared document where everyone just puts in their stuff because someone could inadvertently delete something and then I’d be the one dealing with the consequences of that. Does anyone have any ideas for other options?

    1. Blossom Fowler*

      Could you just make the form for the first question, and then have a follow up stating, if the answer is yes, please email me the information?

      2. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

        This – or just let people stick their contributions into the form anyway, and then have a follow-on checkbox something like “I have sent a duplicate of this info via email to show the correct formatting”. Whether that makes sense probably depends a bit on the proportion who’d be sending formatting separately.

    2. Kathenus*

      I had a similar responsibility for our division for a couple of years. We had a template that we sent out for people to add any updates in certain categories. The template was the same format as the way this information was shared (not exactly a newsletter but similar-ish), so I then cut and pasted all the info for each category from each manager into one for the division, doing light editing if needed to it for consistency/clarity. Then I kept a folder for each month and put everyone’s responses in there so they were available if there were any questions or I needed to access it again in the future.

    3. star*

      I contribute regularly to a publication from multiple teams in my organisation.
      The organisers have put it all on SharePoint in a shared word doc, so multiple people can edit at once.

      In our system these docs do have version history, (type “history” in the search bar in word) so you can turn back time if there’s a big deletion accident. You could also make contributors responsible for keeping a local copy of their contributions?

      The people organising it set up the structure and then make comments tagging @ the expected contributors. (They often use the previous version, and people just have to update rather than start afresh, which makes sense for us but might not for you.)
      It’s imperfect because it struggles a bit if a LOT of people are accessing the doc (10+) at the same time, but mostly works ok.

      You could make a doc each month with a heading for each team, tag the appropriate person, and ask them to put No update if they have nothing to say. Once you’ve got all responses you can make a copy and edit that down into your newsletter format?

  99. Anonymous question*

    If anyone here is an admissions officer, I have a question that I’d like to get some info on before I actually approach my school.

    I’m a current grad student and my program required two letters of recommendation. One of my letters was from a past manager who had since become a very good friend and peer that I worked with very closely. Sadly, she recently passed away, and I would love to have that letter! I waived my right to see it when I applied, but is there any way that can be circumvented in a case like this, where the letter writer is now deceased?

    1. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      I work in an office that handles graduate admissions. If you waived your right, then that’s that. Sorry, I understand why you want that letter, but a university is not going to mess around with confidentiality, even if the letter writer is now deceased. (And anyways, how would the university verify that the letter writer is deceased? Our system uses email addresses to verify that a person contacting us is the same person listed as a recommender by the applicant.)

      I think a better bet for you would be to reach out to the person’s relatives and see if someone still has possessions of her files and would be willing to try to retrieve the letter for you.

      1. Anonymous question*

        Thank you. I thought this would be the answer, though of course I was hoping otherwise! I am connected to her mom and husband on social media, so I can take that route, I just feel like it’s an awfully trivial thing to be bothering them with right now.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      Not an admissions officer, but I know that some universities allow you to look at your admissions records as part of (how they interpret) your rights under FERPA – might be worth looking into whether your school is one of these. I don’t know if you’d be able to see the letter itself – and, to be clear, many schools won’t allow you to see these records at all – but you could possibly see the admissions committee’s feedback about the letter.

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Different universities will handle this differently – it doesn’t hurt to ask!

  100. There's a cat lying on my arm*

    Question/vent

    I work in tech (web development) and am trying to find opportunities with companies that have a positive impact on society. I’m keeping an eye on the Tech Jobs for Good search engine – does anyone have any other tips on how to find tech jobs with a purpose?

    I’ve been with my current company for a number of years and am starting to think about what I want to do with the rest of my life (or next few years at least). I’ve been selectively applying to jobs over the last few months (mostly via referrals), and I keep making it to the later rounds of interviewing then getting rejected. Oh well, it happens, and in the process I’ve figured out what I want my next job to look like.

    Well, I just went through the full interview process with a company that I was starting to get really excited about – good vibes from the team, culture fit, a mission I can get behind. Annnd then I found out that they put the position on hold. Blargh. It sounded like they would want to reach out to me again if it opened back up, but I’ve read enough AAM to not count on that. It sure would be nice, though!

    1. Claire*

      We’d love to have you! Depends on exactly what you’re looking for, but also look at Code For America, Idealist, Daybook, All Hands/Cultivate, DiversifyTech (if that applies). If you have more questions email me at rofem89307 @ wii999.com by the end of the day.

    2. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

      DiversityTech.co sends out emails once or twice a week that includes stats about internal company makeup, try there.

  101. What Is Sleep Even*

    I think I need to leave my current job, which is about to get measurably worse (full office reopening plus key personnel leaving), and am trying to sort out how much better a new position needs to be, to be worth taking.

    I had a good interview with a company that seems well-organized and to have given thought to some of the management issues that drive me up the wall at my current place. But it is in the same industry, with the same not-ideal location, and would also be in person. I’ve enjoyed working remotely. And I can easily do my current job at home, so being called back to the office there feels like I’m being used for decoration. I think it’s a different thing to start over at a new job? I’ll also lose a lot of seniority when I go, and will miss the vacation time in particular.

    But it’s a tough decision! Anyone have experience jumping to a similar position after long tenure, and what made it worth it (or not)?

    1. Ozzie*

      I am debating the same question – unfortunately I don’t have advice, but I can at least agree that it’s a challenging choice to make, and would love to see what others think!

    2. ten four*

      I have been wrestling with this too, and I think it’s down to prioritization. My job’s management drives me up the wall sideways, but I have an enviable schedule and we’re full time remote.

      I’ve hit the point where I need to find a job where I feel like I can grow, and that’s not my current place. I’m willing to give up my 4 day a week schedule to do that. I’d prefer to continue working remote, but I’ll go back into the office if that’s what it takes to work at a place that will let me grow new, more portable skills. But I *wouldn’t* just take any job – I’d have to feel confident that I’m trading my schedule and flexibility for a place that supports my career growth goals.

      Long story short: I’d figure out what you would positively need from a job to change, ideally before you have an offer. Because that way you’ll have that logic/goal list to help you sort through the emotional pieces once the offer is in front of you.

  102. Neon Dreams*

    I had a horrendous ‘interview’ experience Monday. This guy was advertising a reporter position for start up newspaper. He didn’t even build the website. That should’ve been a red flag right there. He wanted me to do stories for him unpaid. I asked if a test article was paid and he said eff no. Then when I said I wasn’t interested, he’s like, I wasn’t impressed with you either. Dodged a rocket sized bullet. It was a a huge personal victory, though. Several years ago, I would’ve cowered.

    But on the bright side, I got invited to interview for another department in my company. Major win! I’ve been applying for years but haven’t gotten many bites. Maybe this will be the one I get.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      This is the same guy who messages you like:

      s’up? send noods?;)

      Then when you politely turn him down,

      b*tch

      You handled it perfectly. :)

  103. CEPI*

    Long time reader and lurker! I have an interview for my supervisor’s position on Tuesday – he is transitioning off of our team, so I would go from my current position to “Senior [Position].” I’m the only one at my level that applied for this position, but they are interviewing people outside of the organization. Normally, I’d feel pretty good about my chances, but this is a government position, and they cannot make a hiring decision based on what they know about me, only what I bring up in my interview. I read the interview guide, and because of my situation, it feels like some of the questions don’t apply that well.

    All that to say, what is the best way to prepare for this interview? I’m nervous I won’t be as articulate as I usually am because I’m 36+ weeks pregnant and experiencing pregnancy brain at times (unfortunately). This promotion would be a 20% salary increase and would make a big difference for my little growing family.

    1. Bayta Darrell*

      Make notes! Write down short notes about what you want to bring up, and have them with you. Don’t read from them during the interview, but if you can take a quick glance at them, that should help.

    2. Blossom Fowler*

      If you haven’t already, download the AAM interview guide, and study it! It has a lot of really great information and will help you to prepare in advance so you can be articulate about your work experience.

    3. star*

      In my government org, all questions are “give me example of” questions. So I would prepare those as a starting point.

      Could you ask your supervisor for specific tips? He seems perfectly placed to know (a) what the job needs (so you can emphasise appropriate strengths in your answers) and (b) your suitability for the role. Maybe he can recall some things that you’ve done that impressed him?

  104. M, Resume Help!*

    I am currently in my second to last semester in grad school, getting my Master’s of Library Science. I recently learned about a fellowship for students at the Library of Congress and I want to apply… but I need help revamping my resume! I know all the things Allison says… but my longest work experience has been as a gas station clerk. I’ve also been a research assistant to my professor in undergrad (finding images and additional readings for chapters of her textbook) and I am currently an intern at an archive processing a collection. I’m having trouble writing about the results I achieved for these jobs.
    I doubt I’ll get in but I do want to apply and put my best foot forward as I do!

    1. annakarina1*

      You can emphasize the work that you did in research and archival processing, talking about your contributions, how you worked on the project and achieved certain goals, the skills that you learned like certain library cataloging, research methods, or database systems and the like. You can write it as bullet points on your resume under the job title, dates, and location. I think your current position as an archive intern will help, it doesn’t matter if it’s very recent, it works in your favor to be working in the field while applying for the fellowship. Good luck!

      1. M, Resume Help!*

        Thank you! It’s such a cool and good opportunity (only available to students) that I feel like I have to at least apply!

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      When I was getting my MLS, I reformatted my resume to sections for “relevant experience” and “other work experience”. Relevant experience went near the top, after my education, and I included all the library/archives internship and experience.

      Ask your supervisors! They might be able to share some accomplishments that you don’t necessarily see as accomplishment. Also think specific numbers, as in – “assisted with additional course readings for 742 classes with Professor Blue”.

    3. Zona the Great*

      Go for it! I don’t see why you wouldn’t be as strong a candidate as anyone else! And when you do get it, do something to make it easier to navigate the damn website!!!

      1. M, Resume Help!*

        Haha thak you! Not sure that’s an area that I could possibly be working on, but who knows!

    4. The teapots are on fire*

      I interviewed for that MANY years ago (wow, almost 30) and at the time they had a scholars’ vibe to the place. So include your work experience, your research interests, and have a good way to tie your theoretical knowledge to your existing work experience. (I did not have that and did not get selected, but it all worked out in the end). Unless, you know, something has changed in the last 30 years.

      1. M, Resume help*

        Thank you! It’s nice to hear from someone else who’s applied, no matter how long ago. Very helpful :)

  105. KoiFeeder*

    I’ve got a question on behalf of my students, today.

    They’ve been receiving emails from fake (spoofed?) registrar and generic professor email addresses that say things like “exam 2 graded” or “your homework submission” in the subject line, but when they open them it’s very suspicious-looking job advertisements (think “alumni from out of town wants executive assistant but instead of asking for a resume he’s asking for your age, gender, address, and cellphone number” level suspicious). I didn’t know about any of this until one of my students forwarded me the email because he thought I’d sent it to him and was confused.

    Obviously, I’m pretty steamed on their behalf. I forwarded the class schedule registrar fake address to the registrar, but there’s gotta be something else I can do, right? We’re in a pandemic, this is not the optimal education situation, and whoever these people are using scare tactics to get my students involved in whatever their scam is.

    1. Me*

      This is something for the IT department to handle.

      That said, the only thing you can do is prepare your students to identify spam. For example over over the sender should show the email address it was sent from will show that the email address is really registrar @ sketchydomain.com not university or will say something like registrar@ university.com (when it’s really .org or whatever)

      Your never going to stop the scammers/spammers/phishing. All you can do is empower them to know when something is suspicious before they click on a link, open and attachment, send personal info, etc.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      My university has an account specifically for reporting these types of emails. Check with your university’s IT department.

    3. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Send it to the IT department. At my university, we have a designated email address (abuse @ school) that we can send suspicious stuff. Even if you don’t have any specific place, let your IT Help Desk know.

      You may also want to let all of your students know about common scams and how to spot them.

  106. Midwestern Data Analyst*

    Just a small rant-I am applying for a new position that would be a bit of a career change. As a first step, there is a fairly in depth take home exercise. I asked for more info on salary before spending a good amount of time on it, and they just referred me back to the job posting, which I had already seen but listed the salary ranges as 60k—125k. How is that helpful? Grr

    1. lily*

      Who in the world wrote that job posting?!??!? There is a wildly different level of experience/education/skills in candidates looking for 60K and candidates looking for 125K.

      1. Mental Lentil*

        They are hoping that 125K qualified people will apply, and then they will only want to pay them 60K. I’ve seen this before. “But we have a great culture! And free donuts once a month!”

        Pass.

      1. Ashley*

        And making you do work while not answering your question. I would only proceed if I was desperate.

  107. Ozzie*

    My company hired an additional person into my department lasst year, as the need for extra support was extremely high. Figuring out the role was a challenge, and now just over a year later, my role, which was previously totally overwhelming – and which I have been trying for 4 years to get laterally moved out of to a role where my skills are much better-used – as turned into an “engaged to wait” role. In discussing this with a trusted manager, I pointed this out, and we discussed that my role would be under review with the upcoming (for two years) implementation of a new ERP system – a process I have been heavily involved with.

    We’ve been dancing around this conversation the entire time – what am I going to do when we get the system replacing a large portion of my job duty, but even after two years, no one has wanted to seriously consider it, simply asking me, what do I want? I’ve laid out multiple times what I want from the role, with ample room for filling the needs of the company as well. Still, after two years, it always feels like we’re starting at square one when I bring it up again.

    I’m assured that this is the winter our system will come on line – seriously, for real this time, it needs to happen – but considering where my job is now, and how this conversation has gone, I don’t have high hopes for restarting the conversation again… Is there a better way I can approach this? I don’t want to cite my current dissatisfaction with my role (I’ve made it clear through the years that I would like to transition out of it, but understood that would not be an immediate process… I’ve made it clear for the past 4 years, and am not feeling as patient anymore), and already plan to bring to the table – again – my strongest skills and their value to the company, as well as what value they have already brought in things that I have helped establish.

    I’m also concerned that there is going to be an ultimate impasse about presence at a specific work location, which moved to 2 hours away from me during the pandemic. I have not been required to return there yet, but I know it’s imminent, based on previous conversations with the director. I don’t think not wanting a 2-hour-one-way commute regularly is unreasonable, but I’m not sure how to *politely* indicate this…

    I’m not sure what my direct question is here… but I’m feeling as thought maybe 5 years of being patient, and unhappy for the sake of efficiency, might be enough. Is this just some carrot-dangling that I’ve given them too much leeway on? If the conversation doesn’t seem to move again, or if that commute is regularly required… it’s time to look for greener (closer) pastures, no?

    1. simple_rhyme*

      I’m sorry you are going through all of this . I can only imagine how frustrated and underappreciated you must feel. Being in the middle of something similar I can relate. The same carrot dangling, the same conversations over and over again, and never receiving a straight answer for the past 5+ years. It’s demoralizing and quite frankly, exhausting. I gave it one last shot and will have a call in 2 weeks with the upper bosses to figure out an answer. But in my mind, even if it happens it’s too little, too late. Once a few financial obligations that keep me tied here until they are paid off in two more years I am looking elsewhere regardless of my answer. Not sure if you are at that point yet. But most people wouldn’t blame you if you were.

      Would it be worth one more conversation and say point blank that you need a straight answer now as to what your future looks like once this new system is in place? How they respond (or fail to respond) to that my be all the answer you need.

      1. Ozzie*

        I’m sorry you’re going through it as well – it’s the type of perpetual frustration that I wouldn’t wish upon others because while not life-or-death or anything, it doesn’t make going to work any easier!

        I hope your meeting in two weeks goes well – even if just to make the next two years less frustrating, and gain you valuable skills for your next position! Said trusted manager mentioned this regarding yearly reviews, so I’m going to prep my side of it with that in mind, and make it documented point during my review as something I need from my managers, so I can bring it up again later.

        I agree that this is probably the last shot I’m going to give them though, and it might not be enough. I’m not willing to do the commute, and I’m not terribly keen on staying where I am. If it turns into a position I could do remotely, maybe, but I have my doubts that that would be well-tolerated. (despite working better from home the past 19 months) I will keep in mind your thoughts on response, or lack thereof, though. They’ve made promises before… but it will be key to see something different, I think.

  108. Wannabe Hermit*

    Just need to vent a little! I’m extremely introverted, but am able to put on a “performance” of extremely upbeat extroversion quite easily, because every single job I’ve ever had has required it. This has led to success in jobs like retail (especially retail for the Big Magical Mouse company), customer service, and receptionist work.
    Although I’m very good at these jobs and have received great feedback, sometimes I fantasize about having a job where I don’t have to speak to a SINGLE PERSON. Or where I can just lose myself in project work or go to a meeting for a few hours without having to be constantly “on” to answer the door or the phone or the cash register or anything like that. I worry that I’ve cultivated my fake extroversion so much that it’ll hurt my chances of getting a more hermit-like job down the road!

    1. fueled by coffee*

      I think you can probably play this up in a cover letter for a career change – “While I’ve enjoyed my work in X, Y, and Z, through my experience at [____], I’ve found that my true passion is in [non-customer service task that is also part of these jobs, like data entry or managing inventory orders], and would greatly enjoy the opportunity to continue to build on these skills at Your Company.”

      1. Wannabe Hermit*

        This is an excellent point and something I hopefully plan on doing soon :) I also FINALLY got my title changed at my job to something a little less front-desk-y, and am hoping that will allow me to make the jump into the less public facing side of things.

  109. SoManyQuestions*

    My company is considering bonuses at the end of this year, basically as a thank you for doing so well during COVID type thing. As a general rule, most staff are not in bonus eligible roles. My question is… what would you consider a fair bonus that would be appreciated by the employees and not just viewed as “umm, ok?” My boss seems to think $1000 is sufficient, but I personally feel like that’s more of a whatever number and you might as well not give anything. I’m just trying to figure out if I’m completely off base or what other orgs do before I try to make my point. For informational purposes, we are a nonprofit with a budget of around $1.8m and 10ish employees. Thanks!

    1. Apprentice*

      It is better than a frozen turkey!

      There are a lot of factors to consider, including, for example, the % of salary this amount represents, expectations of bonuses in general, the impact COVID had on everyone, the other measures the company has taken to mitigate the COVID impact.

      My initial reaction was that $1,000 was a meaningful “thanks!” amount. However, COVID meant people were working 80 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks for a year and a half, that amount would not be as meaningful!

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      My boss seems to think $1000 is sufficient, but I personally feel like that’s more of a whatever number and you might as well not give anything.

      You are wrong.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      I think any person will be happy to get an extra, unexpected $1000. So I disagree that if you’re going to give $1000, you might as well give nothing.

      I work for the government. I don’t get a bonus. Despite being well off that I don’t really worry about money like many of my friends do, I would be excited about $1000. That’s a lot and could buy a fairly big toy for folks like me. It could also help out a struggling family a lot.

      I don’t know what’s a reasonable bonus, but I don’t think folks would be offended by unexpected $1000 bonus. If you got more, though, feel free to distribute even more.

      1. SoManyQuestions*

        Thanks! That’s the kind of response I was looking for, so I won’t push back for more. I think my mind just goes to well after taxes, it doesn’t come out as much. You are right, though, $1000 in early December could be a lot for people.

    4. Ginger Baker*

      If my current BigLaw staff job gave me $1,000 as the regular year-end bonus, I would be upset because historically I have gotten quite a bit more and would feel pretty salty about it. However, when one non-profit I worked for gave us $100 – with an institutional history of not giving bonuses at all and where my pay was also much much lower – I was pretty happy and would have been ECSTATIC to get $1,000 from them.

      If you push at all, I would push to see if you can give an amount covers taxes and thus works out to $1,000 *after* taxes, which would be a lovely thing to do. But even without that, your 10ish employees are gonna be pretty happy to get $1,000-minus-taxes over ZERO bonus.

    5. alynn*

      I’ve gotten bonuses anywhere from a a couple hundred dollars to a paycheck’s worth. $1000 would feel good to me, especially if it was special circumstances/one time thing. But hey, if the organization can afford to make the amount larger, by all means, go for it :)

    6. AnotherAlison*

      I’d lean more towards your initial reaction, but I think it depends on what people’s normal salaries are. If someone earns $20/hr, it’s nice. If someone earns $80/hr, it’s more whatever. I mean, sure, I’ll take free money regardless, but I have definitely been the ungrateful employee when we got some BS bonus dollar amount. (My old job used to give out $100 gift cards at Christmas to people earning $100,000+ salaries, then it became $50, and then Omaha steaks, then nothing, but honestly I rather have nothing than their discount Omaha steaks.)

  110. Kevin*

    Is it normal to get uninvited from meetings if you’re not going with the flow?

    Our company uses a third-party software platform for everything. They’ve been pushing an expensive analytics add-on package. Aside from the price there are a lot of cons. I was originally in meetings about this analytics thing with my boss and grand boss (CFO).

    I was pretty clear I was against it and I laid out why. I also thought I was fair, I mentioned why it has pros. I was pretty even headed through the whole thing, I didn’t scream or yell or get upset.

    I just… stopped being invited to meetings about it? Meetings with the sales people from the company, sales demos of the analytics package, meetings were we explained it to our CEO, previously I was invited to stuff like this and now I’m not. Is this because I’m against it and I’m rowing against the flow? I explicitly tried to be extremely tempered about it so this exact thing would not happen.

    1. banoffee pie*

      I would call it weird to uninvite you for that, yeah. But then I don’t know your company. Is it very unusual for people to be uninvited from meetings or does it happen all the time? That might help you to decide how seriously to take it. Also some people call any disagreement ‘aggressive’ and can’t handle it. Or they might just want you out of the way so they can push ahead with the software. :)

    2. Ozzie*

      I wouldn’t rule it out, but it might not necessarily be what’s going on – they could also just be paring down who is present in their meetings overall, to reduce the number of cooks in the kitchen. (I say this having been on the side asking for number of people to be reduced, because it was making meetings tedious and derailing them pretty often)

      However, what you think happened could also very well be happening. From your perspective you may have been very even-handed, but if your company has already decided to move forward with the software, I could see them no longer inviting you because your input – however valid you or they may find it – was simply out of place for the context of the meetings. They may have viewed it as you simply being contrarian, or not accepting choices made by those with the decision-making power.

      I would suggest asking about it in a feedback-seeking-oriented way. If you’re still interested in attending the meetings, say so. But it might require you to stop arguing against it, because others may not have found the feedback useful (especially in the presence of the company itself… having been in those meetings before as well, it can be a bit mortifying, and can damage the relationship with the representative that your company may be working with for the coming years), and they might worry you will continue to do so even after the decision has been made.

    3. ecnaseener*

      My guess is that they’ve decided to move forward with it, and they simply figured that they’ve already heard all your arguments to the contrary and didn’t need to keep hearing them at this stage.

  111. Anonymous who can't make decisions*

    How do you get better at trusting yourself to make decisions?

    Part of my job is writing articles for a website that we manage on behalf of a client. There’s a complicated set of rules about who gets to approve what content, but essentially, for these articles, we don’t need to go directly to the client for approval. But there are people on my team who work more directly with the clients and they review and approve my work.

    Our front-end web folks asked me to provide two possible images to include with the article. I had the graphic design folks provide a handful of stock images. Graphic Designer liked image A best. I liked image A and B equally. I consulted with a colleague on my team who works more directly with the client. He only liked image A and had serious concerns about all other images, but tentatively agreed that image B could be the runner-up since the web team needed two. So I submitted them both to the web team with a note that we strongly prefer image A. Of course, web team had their own discussion and came back to say they were using image B for several reasons.

    I personally do not care which image we use. I like them both, plus the reality is like 20 people will read this article. But I know I have to make a call here to either accept the web team’s decision to use image B, undermining the arguments of my more senior teammate, or push back and insist on using image A, undermining the arguments of the web team. There’s no clarity in our organization about whose opinion is more important re: images on our website, because these images are simultaneously both part of our content (responsibility of my team) and part of web strategy (responsibility of web team). I’m tempted to ask my boss for a second opinion, but I feel like I always end up running to her when something difficult comes up, and I want to be more decisive and self-sufficient. How do I trust myself to make a judgement call?

    1. Colette*

      I think it depends on the specific reasons the graphic designer had for not liking it. How valid do you think the serious concerns were?

      1. Anonymous who can't make decisions*

        I suppose “serious concerns” is a bit of an overstatement. The audience of the website is people in a particular occupation that tends to be strongly tied to identity (think along the lines of nurses), and research shows these folks are very sensitive to the accuracy of stock images (i.e., they can tell that a model is not really one of them). Which is a valid, evidence-based concern. However, the web team feels that using the image of a person is better for making a personal connection with readers. That’s also a valid, evidence-based concern. So they’re both right, which makes it harder.

        1. Colette*

          So I think you have two choices – one choice would be to go to your boss and say “Who is the final decision maker on which image to use when not everyone agrees?” The alternative is just to make the call – but I’d probably explicitely ask the question first.

          1. Anonymous who can't make decisions*

            Thanks! I decided to email my boss, but I framed it as “I like both these images and see the sense in both arguments. Can I have a second opinion as a sanity check?” There’s definitely a bigger issue at hand about who gets to make decisions, but I know from experience that is not going to be resolved in a timely fashion.

    2. PollyQ*

      Do you actually have to “undermine” anyone’s arguments, though? It sounds like it’s pretty purely a judgment call, so I’d go ahead and just pick one. A general message of “Thanks for all your input, folks. On reflection, I’ve decided to go with B” should be fine. Reasonable people understand that the decision-maker is not always going to agree with their opinions.

      1. Anonymous who can't make decisions*

        My rational brain knows that it’s not actually a big deal, but my anxiety brain is screaming that people are going to stop liking me if I don’t agree with them.

        1. ecnaseener*

          The reality is, most people will like you if they feel HEARD by you, even if you disagree with them.

    3. RagingADHD*

      If the web team doesn’t get to pick images, why did you go through all the hassle of selecting 2 in the first place? Why send image B at all?

      You followed the process up to this point, and now you’re talking about revoking approval on an image *you already approved.*

      I think you need to worry less about this particular image, and more about keeping the workflow moving in the right direction.

      Don’t let your anxiety brain jerk people around.

  112. Just a manager*

    Hey, all I need some advice from the collective mind,
    I lead a team of tech help desk workers. Most of us are now working from home the majority of the time. The most junior person is in the office more often. His desk (our tech area) is near a team (one of many that we support). The leader of the team is a jerk. He’ll speak nicely to my face but talk trash about us behind my back. He’s giving my junior person a hard time. He has ridiculed his tech troubleshooting to his face. He also makes comments about him and our team out loud and our tech worker can hear him.

    My question is – do I talk to this guy directly or do I go to HR and let them sort it out. He’s known in the company as a grump and I’m not sure what reaction I’ll get from him.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’d ask the junior employee to document everything in detail. Then you should talk to the leader of the team directly about it. My guess is the this jerk leader probably won’t take your feedback to heart, but you can at least check that box. Then go to HR.

    2. Colette*

      1) Talk to him directly. If that doesn’t work, talk to his boss (or your boss).
      2) Talk to your tech worker. Let him know that he can walk away if he needs to, and he should tell me if this continues.

  113. Cj*

    I hope it’s not too late to get in her responses to this. An irrelevant comment earlier this week, I mentioned I am on a probationary. Because of my attendance, which is due to FMLA eligibility reasons which I didn’t realize we had. I was switch from salary to hourly, and am only to work 32 hours a week until our busy season starts in January.
    So today is a big deadline, I left at 11 when my 32 hours were up, and have gotten several tasks and teams messages with information they absolutely need to know today.

    The answers weren’t complicated or lengthy, so I didn’t have a problem answering them. On the other hand I’m quite salty about the fact that if they want me to work a set number of hours, then fine, I will do that, but then you are on your own.

    Comments or advice?

    1. PollyQ*

      Do your co-workers know about your schedule change and your limited hours? If not, someone needs to let the team know. I would say ideally your manager, but you may need to do it yourself. You may want to put out-of-office messages on your email, phone, or text (as applicable) to let folks know when you’re not available and when you’ll next be online.

    2. Ozzie*

      I’m… a pretty big fan of malicious compliance. Following the rules to exact specifications, no matter what. You have worked your 32 hours. They do not want you working more than that until January – then don’t work more than that. They should plan around the scheduling changes they made, and you are doing nothing wrong my complying with their schedule.

      That being said, if your manager is going to discipline you for their lack of foresight here… responding might work better in your favor in the long run. Or, are they the type who would scold you for NOT taking those 5 minutes because you are ABOSLUTELY to stay at 32 and not a moment more?

      You know your company/boss more than I do… but again, I’m a huge fan of malicious compliance. (Follow exact rules is less likely to OFFICIALLY hurt though tho, imo, if things ever get elevated, but I’m sure people have varying experiences here depending upon the quality of their HR team)

    3. CBB*

      When I worked hourly, it was against company policy to access email or chat when I wasn’t on the clock (even just to read it). It would have been a big no-no to answer an email or message, no matter how brief, because that would have counted as working 15 minutes of unauthorized overtime.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        And this allows you to say “sorry, I didn’t want to get the company in trouble by working off the clock” instead of “um, sorry, I’m off the clock, bub!”

  114. Lauren Comrade*

    I commented in a thread earlier this week in a post about how not to be a hot mess while waiting to hear back about a job (https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/how-to-make-waiting-to-hear-back-about-a-job-more-bearable.html#comment-3581924). I’m trying, I swear, but it’s been rough, especially as things have been getting progressively worse at my current job.

    I keep trying to prep myself for disappointment but then I’m like nooo you’re gonna manifest the wrong thing, so I try to think positively and then I’m like ugh you’re gonna be even more of a mess if you don’t get it :\ And the thought of being stuck at my job with the hellish months we have coming up turns me into one big stressball. Impatience + anxiety disorder are not the best combo for a job hunt – LOL.

    Planning on following up next week, which would be the 2-week mark. Idk guess I just need to vent about it some more. Thanks for listening, er, reading.

    1. PollyQ*

      I don’t believe you can manifest things with your thoughts one way or the other, so my recommendation would be to take Alison’s standard advice of “Assume you didn’t get it, and move on.” Are there steps you can take, right now, today, in looking for another job? Do those, or at least 1 of them, and I bet it’ll make you feel better.

      1. PollyQ*

        (Sorry for the add-on; I probably should’ve read your initial comment before I first commented)

        If you’ve applied 40 times for jobs that you think you’re perfectly qualified for but not gotten any interviews, I suspect your resume is not as strong as it could be. Maybe today’s “1 thing” would be to take a hard look at it and check out Alison’s advice for resumes to help find areas for improvement.

    2. RagingADHD*

      If manifesting were real, then nobody would ever die of a health condition they denied having. There would be no creeps or stalkers, because their desire for the relationship they want would make it true. And there would be no poverty or hunger, because hungry people focus a LOT of positive energy on food.

      Quit forcing cognitive dissonance on yourself. Feelings are like poops: clenching just makes it worse. You can have all kinds of feelings and it isn’t going to make any difference to the outcome, so just ride it out.

      It’s going to be okay. You’re going to be okay. Good luck with the job!

  115. banoffee pie*

    Hello everybody.
    Earlier in the week one of the questions to Alison was from a freelance writer who was subcontracted to do some work for another writer on Fiverr (this ‘boss’ had top seller status). The OP said that the ‘boss’ was paying her a fraction of the money she got from clients, despite not adding much to her work. Many commenters said that seemed fair enough because it takes a lot of work to be a ‘top seller’ on Fiverr and it’s very hard to get to that level etc. I’m trying to start an editing business and am wondering if anyone has any experience using Fiverr to find clients? Is it worth it, or are there any better ways to get your first clients? Does it take forever to get top-seller status? I thought about writing to a top-seller and offering to be a sub-contractor/gopher for them but that would be weird, wouldn’t it?! I’ve got a couple of editing qualifications but have got stuck at the ‘looking for clients’ part! I’m lucky enough not to be desperate for money. Any help gratefully appreciated. :)

  116. Nynaeve*

    Well, just had a meeting yesterday where everyone in our division got reamed out by the director above our director for not logging enough hours in a (poorly run and poorly communicated) interdepartmental project tracker. Essentially, we were called lazy and/or liars and told we were lucky to still have jobs and that we weren’t doing enough to justify our paychecks. So that was fun! Have definitely been super productive and not alternating between shame spiral and impotent fury! Way to throw away all the goodwill the university built up during the pandemic, Dr. [Redacted]!

    1. Lauren Comrade*

      Oof – I once worked a place where we had to log every second of our existence in our company project tracker. It really messes with you. Owner insisted it was so they could get a better accounting of how long tasks take and be able to bid jobs properly, but that’s not at all how it was used in practice. Hope you can find something better!

      1. Nynaeve*

        Thanks for the sympathy! Ironically, I *had* been extremely grateful for my job until this nonsense. I don’t know if I’ll start looking, but hey, I guess looking is free! Counts as “professional development,” right? ;-) (I know, I know… obviously not.)

    2. introverted af*

      That’s terrible, but also, you have great tastes in books and channelers. So hype for the show!

  117. Reference uncertainty*

    Similar to the person earlier this week who wrote in about old references, I’m wondering about a government job I’m in the running for. Soon I’ll need to give quite a lot of references, but they haven’t asked me for them yet so I don’t know the exact parameters.

    I’ve been freelancing for a long time now and had one larger contract in those years that is highly relevant to the job I’m applying for. But I was a freelancer so I didn’t have a manager, really, and the person who directed my work very thoroughly vanished shortly after the end of that contract. I heard from some people there that he left without explanation and no one there knows where he went or knows how to contact him now. He was the one who handled the contract and gave me the actual assignments they wanted done.

    So I’m a bit stuck on who to provide if they ask me for a reference. I was a freelancer and not an actual hire so HR probably does not have records for me like normal. There wasn’t anyone else I worked with extensively enough to be an actual reference about the job I did. If they say I must provide someone to contact, I’m not sure what tp do.

    1. PollyQ*

      His boss, maybe? That person probably at least knew that you existed and were doing work for the company, and may have had some awareness of the type & quality of work you were doing.

  118. Not an EA*

    I sit at the front desk of my office, but I’m not technically a receptionist/assistant – I’m an Operations Associate who happens to sit there so I can answer the door and take deliveries. My boss just informed me that we have a new employee starting soon who is at the director level. According to my boss, this employee will “probably think you’re his assistant” and so I “may have to set some boundaries with him, while also helping him get what he needs to be set up in the office.” The new employee is already emailing me asking to set up restaurant reservations for him and such. I don’t really feel comfortable flat out saying “no” to him – I’m a low level employee and don’t really have the standing to say no to executives. At the same time, this is kind of a pattern with my boss, where he’ll recognize that the higher up men in the company are asking me to do executive assistant type tasks, and he’ll say that he wants to “empower me to set boundaries” with them. But I sort of feel like that’s a situation where my boss needs to step in and make sure people know that I’m not their assistant, if he already anticipates that’s what they think! Am I off base here?

    1. Not an EA*

      Oh also, I should mention that the incoming employee doesn’t already have an assistant, and I don’t think there’s anyone else I could really pawn this type of work onto – we don’t have an admin team or pool of EAs or anything like that. We don’t really have an office culture where all of the executives have their own assistants, just maybe one or two of them do.

      1. Blossom Fowler*

        You may need to get clarification from your boss. I’d ask him directly – “New exec is asking me to make reservations for him. Who should I refer him to for this type of a request?”

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      How did the incoming employee know to target *you*? That part is fishy. Have you met him? Has he been to the office and seen where you sit?

      Anyway, I’d forward these messages to your boss and say “I see what you mean about him thinking I’m his assistant. Who should be handling these tasks, so I can re-direct him?”

      1. Not an EA*

        Yep, he has been to the office before for meetings before he was officially hired. And unfortunately, he has already seen me make a restaurant reservation (which I did as a special one-time favor to the HR person he was interviewing with, and she was very apologetic of asking me).

      1. Zona the Great*

        Yep this is how I would deal with him. “Hey can you fetch me coffee? I take it with sugar and cream”. You: “No I don’t make coffee for anyone but coffee is available for staff in the kitchen. Everything you need is in there”.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      I think your boss is an ass. Refusing to clarify who does what around the place and calling it “empowering” you is ridiculous. It’s a pretty standard introductory conversation people have at work. However, in your case since they didn’t do that and since your title doesn’t come with universally defined job duties, I wouldn’t hesitate to clarify what you do and don’t do for the new guy.

      1. Not an EA*

        Ok, this is very helpful, thank you! I honestly wasn’t sure if the whole “empowering me to set boundaries” was a load of bs or not. I feel like I could probably get my boss to understand that, because he is the sort of person who really wants to be actively anti-sexism (but missteps sometimes, as we all do!). I bet he thinks that he’s doing me some kind of favor here by not, like mansplaining my job to people? I really don’t know, I guess….just thinking out loud/brainstorming here. My job duties are not super well defined, which is a whole other issue.

        1. ecnaseener*

          Yeah, he can best empower you by using his ACTUAL power to make sure you’re not put in a demeaning situation! That’s super weird and fishy that he claims to be empowering you by…letting you be demeaned so you can have a Badass Girl Power Moment or whatever.

    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Sounds like somebody threw you under the bus, if he already knows who you are before actually starting. Sorry.

    6. Daffodilly*

      Hopefully your boss is ALSO having a conversation with the new guy. I think that clarifying with you that you can set boundaries if it becomes muddled is perfectly fine to do – as long as it’s not the ONLY thing he does.

    7. RagingADHD*

      I would take his statement that you need to set boundaries quite literally. *You* need to set them, and if NewGuy has a problem, the boss will back you up.

      Empowering someone to do something does not mean doing it for them. He has explicitly given you the authority to say no, with the assurance that he will enforce it if need be.

      That actually sounds normal to me.

  119. LongLostLibrarian*

    So, I think I have a great job offer right now for a well-known city but I have some questions that I forgot to ask HR and they’re out for today it looks like, so I can’t call. They will be contacting me on Monday to hear my answer.

    My question is about a pay structure they listed the biweekly payments based on pay grades of the positions. It sets the payments under terms like “2ND Q, Midpoint, 4th Q.” Does that mean how it will increase depending on how long I work in this position?

    I’ve tried looking up this pay structure in other cities to no avail.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I would call and/or email anyway – you never know who’s going to be checking for messages, even if it looks like they’re out for the day.

  120. The Disorganized Administrator*

    I am autistic and struggle a lot with identifying what my tasks and next steps are in a meeting. I’ve messed up in the past by not realizing something was assigned to me and thus not doing it, or doing something and not realizing I was supposed to wait for another thing to happen first! (Otherwise I have a pretty excellent reputation at the small nonprofit where I work, which educates on disability inclusion among other things.)

    In the next few weeks, I plan on requesting some accommodations that should help me with some of the various difficulties I experience at work. I would like to suggest a way to structure/end meetings I’m a part of that lays out action items and next steps really clearly.

    Is this a thing that exists? Like, are there established approaches or ways to delineate action items in a meeting? (In the same way that, say, a SWOT analysis is an established approach to conducting evaluations.) I would love to avoid reinventing the wheel if possible.

    Thank you!

    1. ferrina*

      I have ADHD, and in longer meetings,, I will literally list action items. “Okay, so to sum up our action items, Mohammad is taking Parts A, B and E; Casey is taking Part D; I’m taking Part C and F. Am I missing anything?” or in less formal situations, I say “hey, it sounds like you don’t need any follow up items from me, correct?”
      Another way to do this is send an email after the meeting detailing action items. The follow-up email is especially good for longer meetings or brainstorming meetings.

      1. A Wall*

        Also an ADHDer, also do this. At the end of a meeting or phone call I’ll sum up what’s supposed to happen next: “so you’re going to x, and I’m waiting to hear from Billy about y” or whatever. I also always note down anything I have to do the moment someone says it, so when I do this recap I am essentially double-checking my little list. I do it because I do that classic thing where you forget things that were just said as topics change, so this way I don’t miss anything, but also in my job it often sparks a little discussion of who/how the next steps are getting handled because people will rethink things when asked to confirm them. No matter the reason you might miss something, this is an easy way to make sure that everyone is leaving with the same understanding of what’s happening.

        I will give the warning that every so often I will meet someone who gets a bizarrely bad attitude about it like they think I’m stupid for confirming something so shortly after it’s been said. I maintain that those people are jerks and I’m gonna do it anyway and ignore their crappy responses. “Ohhh nooo, someone repeated something in order to double check it with me sooner than I would have done so myself, I am so perturbed by this crazy behaviorrr.” Whatever, dudes.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      The military does this for staff meetings. Everything that is assigned or needs to be followed up is called an action item (AI) and the person who’s going to do it is called the action officer (AO). And somebody is tracking all the AIs and their respective AOs.

      That won’t necessarily help you for the “supposed to wait for someone else to do their part first” thing – for that you’d need project tracking systems like PERT and GANTT, or dependency tracking in an Agile tool. That may be way more overhead than you actually need, though, so I wouldn’t dive right into that yourself.

    3. I heart Paul Buchman*

      I might be misunderstanding but in my office these things are clearly delineated in the meeting minutes. Ours are set out in a table with columns defining action items, who holds responsibility, timeframe/deadline. Would that help? Ours are produced by an admin who sits in for this purpose and who asks for clarification as needed in the moment.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Yes, I was going to ask if anyone takes meeting notes. If so, it’s super normal (ie doesn’t need to be framed as an accommodation) for you to ask the note-taker if they can please make sure to write down who’s been assigned which action items and any relevant details.

  121. Cj*

    My supervisor knows about my schedule change, when I told her she was leaving at 11 she said I would certainly hope we would be approved to work extra hours when we are coming up a deadline. I reminded her that our partner
    told me that last week I needed his approval even though the deadline was loaning I’m mostly pissed that they expected me to be there at your their convenience, even though they told me to quit working when I hit 32 hours.

    I could very well have worked later had I known ahead of time, but because I did, I already had plans that could not be changed , so I am extra salty over this My other co-workers do not know about this, but I

    1. WellRed*

      You might need to loop in HR to set clear boundaries on what you are able and legally able to do.

  122. Do I just let them fail*

    My work experience and personality quirks have made me pretty good at knowing what so-and-so knows or doesn’t know and at foreseeing how a project will go wrong. My inclination is to think of the whole company as a team, so what I really want to do is point out the things that will get a pushback hy senior management or for one reason or another will delay the timeline. I can honestly say I would like people to do the same for me because I’d rather close out a project asap.

    However, people don’t seem to come from the same place as me and tend to get offended at what they perceive as criticism or trivial concerns, especially since my appearance and mannerism are such that people are more likely to mistake me for an intern or an entry-level employee than someone who’s been around the block.

    I did eventually decide to mind my own business and adopt a more “it’s not my problem” attitude, but in my semi-new job I’m seeing all these rookie mistakes that are beginning to frustrate me. On one occasion, I did succumb and tried to (diplomatically) offer feedback, but although the person dismissed my concerns with the same level of diplomacy, I couldn’t help but feel like I shouldn’t have done that. Am I too sensitive and is this kind of exchange actually normal at work? (And are most people resistant to feedback from coworkers that are about their work instead of their personality?)

    1. ferrina*

      Is this something that’s new at this workplace, or is this something you’ve experienced at other jobs/facets of life? It could be that your directness is being read as being critical or judgmental. Ask your most brutally honest friend about their take on this.

      Different workplaces do have different attitudes toward feedback and expertise. Some places are very Stay-In-Your-Lane and some places are very Any-Feedback-From-Anyone! It sounds like this is closer to the former.

      If you want to adapt your messaging, there’s a few techniques I recommend. Disclaimer: some people hate using these, but they work.
      -Compliment the good parts. If all you’re pointing out is the flaws, you’re ignoring the person’s good parts and not giving credit where due.
      -Use questions. This works because it acknowledges the other person’s expertise and gives them a chance to save face. “I’m curious about why the menu button was put in the very middle of the screen. Can you tell me a little bit about that?”
      -Give opportunities for people to save face. We all have our pride, and no one wants their ignorance aired in front of a crowd.
      -Use the royal We. It works because reminds people that we’re all on the same team (trying to make the project be successful) and it can feel less acusatory. “Are we concerned that clients will confuse us with Other Brand? If so, I wonder if we should…”
      -Limit the negative feedback. 2-3 things, tops. More than that can overwhelm people (especially when things are already stressful)
      -Forge relationships outside of feedback. People will accept feedback more openly from people that they already trust and feel kinship toward.
      -Give it time. If some folks see you as adversarial, it will take time to rewrite their narrative.

      Also, be gentle with folks. I hear your frustration in your post, and while this is frustrating (I’ve been there!), you can’t argue or punish people in to listening to you. Think about the people you most trust- what are they like? How can you embody those attributes?

    2. James*

      I’ve got a colleague who views himself the way you view yourself. I can tell you from the other side.

      Fair warning–you asked! :D

      First, often what you perceive as trivial and what I perceive as trivial are different. We all have different ways of doing things, and most of the time no one way is correct–my way will work as well as his, just differently. So the whole conversation feels like a waste of time.

      Second, it often feels like I’m being interrogated. Having someone who wasn’t even invited hijack my meeting and interrogating me in front of my teams about things that I never asked his opinion on is…annoying. I don’t owe him an explanation; the people who I DO owe an explanation to trust me, and I’ve done this job for almost ten years now. I got this. To make it even worse, nearly every time he’s interrogated me I’ve been able to provide the answers. Okay, sometimes the answers are “They decided this 20 years ago and I’m locked in”, but I’ve had the answers. (I sometimes screw up, about as often as him, though.) And in my position I see a lot more of the big picture than he does, giving me a different perspective–he’s focused on the individual project, I’m focused on the entire site, and what’s most efficient for one isn’t necessarily most efficient for the other. After several years I would expect him to assume that if I’m doing something he considers odd the reason is that I have a reason for it, not because I’m a flipping moron.

      Third, no matter how nice you are the fifth time you tell someone “You need to do X instead of whatever the crap you’re doing is” they’re going to interpret it as that quote, not as helpful advice. If you do that two weeks in a row, it becomes the sort of thing that makes me not want to ever work with you again. There’s a limit to the amount you can offer unsolicited feedback before the act itself becomes perceived as hostile, regardless of how nice you are. Everyone has their own limit, of course, and limits change constantly.

      There’s also tone. What he thinks of as friendly and helpful often comes off as condescending and belittling. Again, especially after multiple days of putting up with every decision I make questioned by someone not even on my project.

      Overall he comes off as assuming he’s the one that’s right and I’m the one that’s wrong in every interaction, despite (again) years of evidence to the contrary, and in situations where I’m above him in the hierarchy. At his worst he exudes an attitude of “I’m the only one who knows anything”. As such I’m VERY careful about how I bring this person onto projects I manage. He’s a fantastic worker, and probably increases the efficiency of a project 20%. At the same time, the amount of stress and aggravation he adds sometimes simply isn’t worth it.

      To be clear, it’s not just me. It’s an issue what multiple people have with him. And my wife is the same way, so it’s not like you can’t love someone who does this to you. :)

      As for unsolicited feedback, yes, most people are going to be resistant to it, even if it’s about work. By definition you’re intruding, even if it’s helpful. Sometimes it goes well, but most of the time you’re going to annoy people, for the reasons listed. That’s not necessarily a bad thing–I’m a big believer that sometimes people need to be annoyed! But you have to use it sparingly. I used to have someone working for me that was like you, and she was very effective when I needed to get someone moving!

      If you want to be better-received don’t provide feedback, ask questions and try to understand their reasoning. Don’t criticize until you understand why they’re doing what they’re doing–unless, of course, they ask. Or wait until they come to you. You don’t need to push yourself into their work in order to become known as the guy with the answers.

    3. Daffodilly*

      You’re making one huge, faulty assumption:
      That you are right.
      The truth is, you have ONE perspective. Other may see a bigger picture than you, or know about the history and personalities involved.
      You need to stop going around telling people they’re doing it wrong. You need to stop being a know-it-all.

      1. WellRed*

        Yes. It’s unclear from your letter whether it’s even your job to tell people they are wrong. I’m guessing it’s…really not.

        1. WellRed*

          Sorry I just reread your post and missed the last paragraph. Please tell me you are not actually providing feedback on coworkers’ personalities(!!!) as well. Again, the real issue is whether your role entitles you to make the criticisms you are AT ALL but your use of “rookie mistakes “ and questions about personality criticisms is giving me seriously raised eyebrows and a bit of cringe.

          1. banoffee pie*

            I think the OP meant they were providing feedback on work, not personailty. But I’m not sure. In my experience feedback on people’s personalities will be even less well-received than feedback on work. I don’t go there because they might retaliate and tell me what they think of my personality. Or kick the crap out of me lol

            1. James*

              “I think the OP meant they were providing feedback on work, not personailty.”

              The thing is, the boundary is VERY fuzzy here. One’s personality affects how one does certain tasks. Take organizing files. They can be organized by day, by type, by person generating them. They can be printed or saved on a local hard drive or saved on a server–and if they are to be saved on a server they can be saved daily, weekly, at the end of a project, at key milestones, etc. How you do this will depend in large part on your personality. I tend to prefer to save the filing to the end, that way we can make revisions. Others prefer to do it as the paperwork comes in. Neither is wrong, just different.

              If someone comes up to me unprompted and says “James, you really need to be filing these every day like I do”, it’s going to annoy me on both a professional level (what right does he have to tell me how to do my job?) and a personal level (why does HIS preference trump mine?). That last parenthetical is important–as Daffodilly said, the underlying assumption in unsolicited advice is “I’m right and you’re wrong”.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Yes, most people are resistant to feedback from coworkers on aspects of the work that are not the coworker’s area of responsibility. Unless there is an intentional space/time for collaboration, or they solicit your input.

      If you demonstrate a track record at this organization of excellence & efficiency on your own projects, and helpfulness when asked, then people will seek out your advice and opinion.

      If you’re new, they have no reason to believe you can navigate the organization better than the people who have been working there for a long time.

      Prove your chops first.

  123. Nervous New Grad*

    Something I’ve been trying to get the hang of for a while, but what frequency is appropriate for following up on questions when I’m working remotely? I’m a permanent WFH employee in a different state than the rest of my team, and I’m also the most junior member which means I have a lot of questions as I’m still learning a lot! My team has made it clear I’m welcome to ask those questions and they are happy to help, but since I’m remote and I can’t just like, drop by someone’s desk for a quick ask, I have to message them and there isn’t always an instant turnaround that way. What’s a reasonable level of frequency to follow up if my questions are going unanswered? And does anyone have any good suggestions for wording when I do follow up? I don’t want to be a pest, but I also need answers to be able to do my job effectively!

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Can you compile a list and send a few related questions in the same message?

      For follow up time, I’d say it depends on the question. If it’s urgent, you might need to give someone a call if you don’t hear back in under an hour. Beyond that, I’d probably give them several days before following up. Additionally, ask your supervisor or team what the expectations are.

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      If you have a LOT of questions, I would suggest setting aside a regular time to get questions answered. Maybe that’s a 15-min Slack check-in at noon each day, or an hour with your supervisor on Zoom each week. If the questions don’t need that much dedicated time, I would let folks know with the question how urgent it is. Like “I’ll be coming back to this project Wed morning so it would be really helpful if I could know where the files are before then.” Then, you have a clear path to follow up with them by that time if you don’t get an answer.

      It also find it helpful to know what troubleshooting folks already did if relevant. Like “I thought these files would be here, but they weren’t, and I also checked X, Y, and Z locations. Can you point me to them?” That lets me know someone put some thought into the issue and I also won’t then waste your time with saying “Check X and Y”.

      I truly don’t mind answering junior folks’ questions. However, being frequently pinged with questions I was expected to answer ASAP would make it really difficult for me to get my own work done, whether in person or virtually. So if it were me, I would want to set aside dedicated time with you to take care of those.

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Echoing what others have said:

      *Save your questions for regular check-ins.
      *Your supervisor/manager should be your first point of contact (unless you know someone else owns that area
      *Ask people who you are asking what they’re preferences are
      *Take good notes, so you’re not asking the same questions again. Bonus points if you make your notes legible and organized for others and offer that to your supervisor a few months in as an on-boarding FAQ doc.

    2. banoffee pie*

      I saw it! That is some good stuff. The best bit is at the end where the boss backtracks and is told where to stick it.

  125. Anon for today*

    I had a major ethical lapse this week – idle curiosity got the better of me, and I accessed confidential information that I shouldn’t have to satisfy it*. I think that it is unlikely that anyone will notice I accessed the information, and I think my level of upset at having had this lapse will make it unlikely that I’ll do the same again. But I’m in a bit of a shame spiral about it, and also a panic about potential consequences.

    I know it’s late in the thread to get many responses, and mostly I am just hoping that writing this out will help me get it off my mind, but if anyone wants to weigh in:
    -Is there any benefit to proactively confessing to my boss what I did?** I am a high achieving mid-level manager, and I know I am valuable to the organization. My current instinct is to not share it but just explain how wrong I know I was if someone does ask me about it, but I’m worried should it come to that, that it will seem like I was trying to cover for myself
    -In reading the archives, the question that Alison posed to a LW in a similar situation*** was: I think you’ve got to figure out what drove you to do that and what’s required of you as a manager (and other ways you might out of sync with those requirements) before you can really move forward from this. – In my case it feels like it was genuine curiosity that drove me, and what’s required of me as a manager is to put my ethical and professional obligations above my personal desires. But I’m also in a state of being pretty cynical about work and about my company and I think that’s likely what made it hard for me to do the right thing. If anyone else has helped themself become a more upstanding ethical professional, or to do what is expect of you as a manager, I’m curious how you trained yourself to do this?
    -On a related note- any tips for using my shame spiral to actual motivate myself to be better, rather than just beating myself up?

    *What I did was use my manager-level clearance in our database to access the job application for a colleague because I was curious about where he worked before he came to our company (on a different team, so I couldn’t just quickly ask him, and a quick google didn’t answer it). All managers have access to all past job applications, but we have no reason (or right) to access them unless we’re on a hiring committee. I didn’t actually look at any information besides his most recent employer, but by loading the application I could have theoretically seen things like desired salary range, address, etc. I didn’t share this information with anyone, and don’t have ongoing access to it without clicking on it again (which I obviously will not do!)

    **I assume that our database tracks clicks and opens in a report and that someone could notice that I accessed it, but we also have a single database manager who is not concerned with these kinds of things and the odds of someone seeing what I did is low unless they were specifically going looking for it.

    ***Will put the link to the letter in question a comment

    2. banoffee pie*

      Is there any point in confessing, unless you think you’ll get found out anyway? In which case, maybe you should get ahead of the curve with the contrition. I thought it was going to be secret medical info or something when I started reading, so it wasn’t as bad as I thought. I don’t think you should beat yourself up about it forever or anything. If you feel really bad I doubt you’ll do it again :)

      1. Anon for today*

        Is there any point in confessing, unless you think you’ll get found out anyway?

        I don’t think so? But I’m not sure – I don’t want it to look like I was trying to ~conceal~ wrongdoing.

        1. pancakes*

          It seems in this context that not confessing would be the only step you took towards concealing, and that’s not really concealing. Concealing would be more like, trying to delete evidence that you opened the file. Definitely don’t do that, but it doesn’t sound like you are even thinking about it.

          I don’t think it’s advisable to confess this because it seems like the main point in doing so would be to attempt to unburden yourself of feeling bad rather than actually change your behavior. It seems like you know perfectly well that this one incident was bad behavior. It’s appropriate to feel regret and sadness about it, and resolve to yourself not to do it again.

          It seems like you have enough motivation to avoid doing it again without upping the stakes by putting this on your record (by confessing). Or no? I think you should spend some time questioning why your impulse is to think that having someone else hold you accountable might be more meaningful or desirable than holding yourself accountable.

      2. Anon for today*

        ^I am leaning towards not preemptively confessing since I think you’re correct that what I did was minorly rather than majorly egregious. But I am curious about other takes!

        1. banoffee pie*

          Yeah definitely listen to other opinions. I’m not even in the US so don’t know all your mores, and I have kind of my own weird ideas about things. Good luck :)

    3. PollyQ*

      Here’s my concern: It’s possible this is the kind of thing that’s treated as an automatic firing violation, with no consideration allowed by your manager. IDK how likely it is — some places treat HIPAA violations like that, but I agree that this is a less serious kind of violation. But if it is the case, and you tell your manager, you could be fired regardless of how contrite you are. For that reason, I’m leaning towards not telling anyone, although there are good points for the other side.

      In terms of keeping yourself from doing something like this again, my advice is, oddly, be selfish. Pay attention to how ashamed & panicked you feel, and tell yourself that you never want to feel this way again. Also, if you’re feeling cynical & burned-out at your current job, maybe it’s time to think about leaving.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Certainly check the policies to see if it’s an automatic firing violation or something else with serious consequences…but my guess is that they wouldn’t make it so easy for people to idly click on the wrong app if they took it so seriously. No warning/reminder text in the system about only accessing apps you are involved in? Is it a rule, or just an understood expectation?

    4. RagingADHD*

      I think you are really over-reacting to the situation.

      This information isn’t actually secret. I’m not even sure it was unethical for you to see it. It’s his last employer. People post resumes with job history all over the internet. They often introduce themselves at a new job by immediately stating where they came from. It isn’t private.

      Did you do anything harmful with the information, like use it to undermine or badmouth him somehow? Has your knowledge of his last employer harmed him in any way? Did you circumvent any security measures in order to view the document, like stealing someone else’s password?

      Snooping is gross as a general principle, but this particular instance is so low-stakes and kind of pointless that I can’t imagine what would be gained by making a big deal out of “confessing,” why anyone would be tracking which authorized users opened the document at what time, and why anyone would care.

      If you were barred from looking at it, you wouldn’t have access. I think if you go telling your manager about all this shame and guilt, it’s going to undermine your credibility. Not your ethics, but your overall sense of proportion.

  126. Cat Toys*

    How do people deal with a new hire who is also a drama queen? Except for not responding to her when she starts in on the drama, I don’t have any other coping mechanism that seem to work.

    Everything that could go wrong in the last 2 weeks since she started, apparently has. A parent has a major, sudden, illness, bank account troubles, significant other problems, car problems, major home repairs needed, you name it and it’s happened. I’m betting on Covid happening next week.

    1. Anastasia*

      So, I’m assuming you think she is lying (or at least exaggerating)? If so, I’d want to take that into consideration when dealing with her more generally, since that speaks to a lack of ethics and a certain narcissism.
      If you think it might be true, but she’s just over-sharing, then I’d take a slightly different tack – if you are her superior, it might be appropriate to gently explain to her that her sharing such personal details is making people uncomfortable (which, actually, might be a good idea if you think she’s lying, as well), and if not, I’d consider just.. not masking as much as one normally does. If she’s rambling, look bored. If she’s oversharing, look uncomfortable. Excuse yourself to get back to work – and say that that is what you are doing. Don’t give her the feedback she’s looking for.

      1. Cat Toys*

        Everything is a total lie, if you ask for details she doesn’t have them. “What hospital” or “what mechanic” or “what city”. No details at all. Come on, your mother is in the hospital, or your daughter moved and is several states away and you have no details?

  127. setting boundaries*

    hi! a few weeks ago (?) i posted something about how my boss wasn’t responding to more personal texts but would respond to work texts. my boss was an internal promotion and as coworkers we’d text about stuff like harry potter. as a note: we’re not in an office setting and have a more casual work environment.

    someone gently suggested that maybe not responding to personal texts was her way of setting boundaries now that she’s a boss, and i believe that’s what’s happening. it’s hard going from having her as my coworker to having her as my boss, in terms of remembering what’s okay and what’s not. a couple weeks ago we had a discussion about boundaries, not mentioning the texts specifically. it’s a learning curve for all of us on both sides. my posting that here a few weeks ago and our discussion was kind of a wake up call. i didn’t have any bad intentions, but i feel bad for unintentionally breaking her potential boundaries.

    while i kind of do wish my boss would have said something, not just….. not responded, i’ve been much better at not texting personal stuff and save that for when we’re at work (i work part time).

    anyway, i’ve been meaning to thank you all for your help! :)

    1. banoffee pie*

      I didn’t read the original post you made but going on what you say there, I think her not replying at all was a bit unkind. I wouldn’t expect you to figure out on your own that it meant ‘setting boundaries’. It would have made me feel small too and I probably would have assumed I’d offended her in some way. I don’t see why she still can’t text a little about Harry Potter and stuff, but hey.

      1. setting boundaries*

        I don’t remember my original post but yeah! I don’t love that she didn’t ever say anything, because I can’t read her mind.

        Like, now I know not to vent about other coworkers to her because we talked about that. We didn’t actually talk about this, so I’m just assuming things from her lack of responses on anything personal.

        Also the only other time one of my coworkers became my boss was at another job and we all basically interacted with them the way we always had, so I just kept doing the same thing this time around, not realizing that things are different this time around.

        Anyway, thank you for this, I’m glad it’s not, like, just me. :)

  128. Anastasia*

    Any advice on the right time to tell your boss you’re quitting?
    I know in general the advice is to not tell until a) you have another job lined up and b) it’s your required notice period. But neither of those apply in my situation – I’m going to have to quit my job because I’m moving to the US for family reasons, and I won’t have a work permit when I get there. (My visa class is not eligible for a work permit. I can apply for PR status after I arrive, and can get a work permit that way, but that will take some time, so I will be not legally eligible to work for any company for at least a year. I’ve consulted with immigration lawyers, and that is the only way I will be able to obtain a work permit under that visa class.) My current job is remote, and my employer has offices in many countries, including the US, so it is possible that I could get a job with them again after the PR comes through, which is what I would like.
    It’s also complicated because I don’t yet have a date – all of this is dependent on visas, and there is always a chance, however remote, that the visa won’t come through. It’s also being greatly delayed by COVID, so it’s hard to say when this move will be happening, precisely.

    I’m worrying about this now because I have a performance review call with my manager coming up, and obviously she’s going to want to discuss my goals for the next year; it feels dishonest to not tell her ‘my goals include moving to a different country and quitting.’
    I particularly don’t want to leave on a sour note because I’m hoping to work with them again in future; and even if that ends up being impossible, I will definitely need a reference from this manager.
    Further complicating factors:
    -My manager is well aware that I don’t intend to stay in my current country forever, and may ask me directly during our review call what my plans are.
    -I’m currently being trained on work that I find interesting, and am concerned that they may not want to train me if they knew I was planning on moving/quitting within the next several months

    1. PollyQ*

      Don’t tell them until you have all the details nailed down and you’re ready to stop earning a salary from them.

      1. Anastasia*

        I guess what I’m worrying about is what if my manager asks me directly what my plans are – she knows I & my family aren’t planning on staying in this country long-term, and it’s likely that we won’t have the details nailed down until very shortly before we need to leave. If she asks outright – which she has done before – do I just… lie, and say I’m not leaving anytime soon? Say I am leaving but don’t know the timeline? Or just be incredibly vague?

        1. PollyQ*

          What’s the earliest you think you might be leaving by? If it’s more than six months, I would say that “not anytime soon” is perfectly honest. The US standard is 2 weeks notice — IDK if it’s different in the UK — so really, that’s all your employer is entitled to. Sure, they’d like to know sooner, but on the flip side, there are plenty of employees who don’t give them even that much notice.

    2. ecnaseener*

      I don’t understand why you say the notice period “doesn’t apply” to you. I assume your country has norms around this even if it’s not required. Plan to give that standard X weeks notice, unless as Alison has wrote you are completely sure your employer treats people well who give extra-long notice.

      If directly asked about your plans to move, you can say you’re starting to discuss possibly moving fairly soon but nothing’s nailed down yet. And then once you hit your X weeks in advance point, you tell your boss the plans have just now been finalized. (I know this feels disingenuous because you’re pretty much decided already – but nothing’s set in stone until your visa’s come through)

      1. Anastasia*

        My contract says explicitly that I do not need to give any notice whatsoever. But that seems crappy, and I think my boss would be a bit peeved if I did that, which would make them less likely to hire me back/give me a good recommendation.

        I’m also quite sure that my employer would not push me out early; I’m more concerned that they might cut off the training I am receiving, since the move means I’d have to resign, and they aren’t under any obligation to hire me back after I get a work permit. (They have offices in the US, but not in the specific state to which I’m moving – however, they’ve historically been flexible with employees based in the US who move to different states.)

        I might be over-thinking all of this; but this company has also been very flexible with me through multiple international moves (long story!) and I’d like to be courteous to them in return.

        1. ecnaseener*

          Like I said, even if notice isn’t required, there must be a customary amount that doesn’t feel crappy in your culture. If you’re not sure, go with two weeks. No extra notice if you’re worried about them cutting off your training!

  129. Dragonfly7*

    How do you define critical thinking skills? I work in higher ed, and area employers frequently complain that our graduates don’t have critical thinking skills. Personally, I’m bewildered because I’ve yet to have an employer in the private sector who did actually want those skills, at least as I learned them.

    1. After 33 years ...*

      This can be a buzzword rather than an actual defined requirement. Sometimes it helps if your students (or you) tell the employer that they have “Critical thinking skills” and give their own examples (or if your website says that, with examples). Some things I’d consider are:
      – the ability to comprehend and summarize an article / presentation in a short paragraph;
      – the ability to state an author’s claim, recognize the reasons, assess the evidence presented, and determine whether the claim is warranted (sometimes called CREW analysis);
      – the ability to recognize patterns in data / information and synthesize, rather than simply quoting data;
      – the ability to draw parallels from one situation / problem to another;
      – the ability to recognize multiple dimensions in a problem, and to be able to suggest a course of action using the best available information (rather than stopping after, “That’s a complex problem, with many things to consider”.)

      1. Anastasia*

        This. I was very frustrated with a trainee who asked me about two, almost-identical problems in her work within a week – which had been covered explicitly in her training, and which she had reference material explaining – and the second time I went through this problem with her, she said “Oh thanks, I’ve just never dealt with anything like this before!!!”
        The lack of pattern recognition was… concerning. Similarly, part of her duties involve pulling information on individuals from a database; we enter name, date of birth, and some other info to get this information. She tried with one particular person, and got a ‘no result’ hit – but that information DEFINITELY should have been there (as in, the person would have been committing fraud had it not been). Now: the individual’s listed DOB was something like ’01/02/78′. She had entered it into the database as January 2, 1978 – but 1) the individual was not American, 2) the individual was very famous and their birthdate was publicly available information and 3) the individual had listed a different date as something like 17/03/2019. So…. a reasonable inference might be to try the database again using birthdate February 1, 1978, right? Instead, the trainee asked our client (whom we are not supposed to contact unless absolutely necessary) for an alternate name for the individual, and then when the client did not respond, simply gave up and said it was impossible.
        These are examples of what I would consider a lack of critical thinking. I suppose in some sense this is just basic logic, but ‘critical thinking’ sounds less harsh…

      2. Filosofickle*

        One more: The ability to ask good questions. Could be to clarify, to understand intent/purpose, to connect parallels/patterns, to call out missing info, etc.

    2. pancakes*

      My feeling is that when people complain about a lack of these skills in recent graduates, what they’re really trying to say is that they want more proactive employees.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Often, this means the ability to “google” all sorts of things, like how to utilize features in Word or Excel.

    3. RagingADHD*

      This isn’t a technical definition, but I generally consider it to mean the ability to solve problems based on prior knowledge of similar situations, and the ability to apply logical reasoning and general knowledge of the world to a specific instance in order to assess the accuracy of a claim or your own perceptions.

      For example, “this injection made my arm magnetic.” Critical thinking would allow you to consider what sort of substances are magnetic and what would happen very quickly to your arm if you were injected with a syringe full of iron shavings.

      It would also allow you to consider whether a video of someone sticking an unknown flat object to their arm is actually “proof” that their arm is magnetic, that an injection caused it, or that they ever had an injection in that arm at all.

  130. something*

    There are two jobs I’m applying for in a foreign country which are relevant here. Job A starts in April and Job B starts in July. Those dates are basically non-negotiable. Job B is government-sponsored and is a highly competitive and coveted position. Job A is basically the same job but with a private company and somewhat lower pay and benefits. In theory, I’d like to accept Job A but hold off on doing my visa paperwork until I heard back from Job B…but in reality, I’m pretty sure Job A will want me to make my decision sooner than that. It’d kill me inside to turn down Job B if they did extend an offer, but I’d rather take Job A than not go to the foreign country at all. It’s important not to burn the bridge with Job A, too, and I doubt they’d look kindly on it if I ditched them after they went through all the hoops of visa sponsorship. (I’m not sure how they’d feel if I basically told them that they were my second choice, although they doubtless know that it’s the truth for many of their applicants!)
    Assuming I’m given an offer by Job A and Job B is showing interest, my current plan is to say that I’d still like to start in April but that I need to hold off on the visa process for a while “for various reasons.” That seems really flimsy and obvious, though. Any thoughts on how to handle this?

    1. ecnaseener*

      Yeah, I don’t think that will work. Visas take time, they’re going to want to start on it to avoid delays. Ultimately I think you need to only accept one offer here.

    2. Anastasia*

      As someone in the middle of my own visa problems: visas are extremely delayed right now. It always takes time, and will take longer than usual. Possibly MUCH longer than usual. (If you would require an embassy visit to get the visa, expect that to be backlogged, for example; and even just sending the requisite paperwork may be much, much slower than expected.) There is basically no chance that they’d want to ‘hold off’ on the visa paperwork, and it would look strange to ask.
      If you’d be happy with Job A, then just accept Job A. Really with any job, you should be evaluating on its own merits and not making comparisons to options that don’t really exist yet.

      1. something*

        I guess I’m a bit in denial, but yeah, you’re right. I’m counting my chicks before they’ve hatched, of course, so I might not even run into this situation. We’ll see what happens! :)

  131. Checkout counter in 2021*

    How do you not want to go axe-crazy on people going axe-crazy on you?

    I’ve been working behind the cash register since 2019, same place for the last few years while trying to figure out what I want my life to be. People were pleasant up through the holidays in 2019, when they started to get a bit grouchy… an then 2020 hit, we went full online pickup, opened up again partway through 2020, and have been open since…

    …and I’ve really lost my faith in other people. Lady, you’re coming in to complain about your arugula? Bitch, there’s a crazy lady who lives downstairs from me who’s hitting her kid and had CPS called on her multiple times; I’m still dealing with deaths of family members from cancer; I have multiple online friends with shit going on in their lives. You don’t like the music or the produce here? Fuck you. I’m trying not to end things here.

    I keep getting advice like “bUt ThEy’Re JuSt HaViNg A bAd DaY!” and “bUt CoViD!”, but I’m through with it. I don’t want to play therapist to a bunch of rich citiots coming up from Manhattan or wherever the fuck to buy up housing and make it impossible to live here. I just with COVID had killed all of them so I could get on with my life and not be a depressed wreck.

    So yeah… what do?

    1. Red*

      Yikes, I don’t know. It sounds like you’re really stressed out. My advice is just to stop spending emotional energy on strangers you see for literal minutes. *shrug* Save it for your life and the people you care about.

      I’m in retail, too, although I haven’t been doing it for very long. When someone starts turning jerky, I go on autopilot. The faster I handle the issue and move them along, the faster I can forget them and help someone who deserves more attention.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Go see somebody because you need to talk it out and get some coping mechanisms. it’s been a hard year on everyone and you need IRL outside support.

      1. banoffee pie*

        It sounds awful. There are probably more good than bad customers but your brain will notice the bad because that’s what our brains do. They try to remember potential threats for the future; it’s how we protect ourselves. That’s why it doesn’t always work to try to do that CBT thing of ‘rationalising’ and trying to count up how many people are nice vs how many are not. It isn’t a numbers game. Your brain will be more concerned about one potential threat than 30 harmless people. I think these bad customers are stressing you out because they’re triggering that anxiety response in you (caveat I have no medical training lol).

        Maybe remind yourself they aren’t actually out to get you personally, they’re just a bit stressed and unpleasant? And don’t put too much effort into their arugula problems (what even is that? A herb? OK I googled it, apparently it’s rocket. Who knew?). Just do the bare minimum with the rude ones. And maybe don’t tell them you wish they had died of Covid ;) FWIW I appreciate checkout staff. I don’t know how they have the patience, and I always try to chat to them etc. But maybe you hate the chatting? It’s just extra work maybe? Now I’m doubting what I’ve been doing all along! Anyway all the best :)

    3. Worker bee*

      Well, first of all, I completely feel you. People have been beyond horrible since Covid and I don’t think that the amount of abuse retail workers have had to endure is something that’s been fully publicized.

      I’ve been screamed at, threatened, had people say they’ll follow me home, people have spit at my coworkers, try to run them over, I’ve been pushed, my mask grabbed off my face, and every single slur and curse word hurled at me.

      At this point, I really think I have PTSD. I’ve not worked regular retail in awhile for my company, but my reactions to normal things are all over the place. I either wildly overreact to things that aren’t a huge thing or have no reaction to things I should address.

      And in writing this, I just realized that some things that I were insistent that they be addressed at work were me being hypervigilant. I knew I was being weirdly panicky, but wasn’t sure why, but that explains it.

      I have nothing to say that will help, other than to say you are not alone. The only thing that has helped me is that, since they treat me as a robot, is to act like one. I can do XYZ, but if they want Q, I call a manager. They scream at X, I repeat 3 times, then call a manager.

      I can handle all of their stuff, but if everyone comes at me full guns ablaze hostility, it drains my ability to give a shit (sorry to be crass, but that’s the best way to phrase it), so I have to pass things off in order to be able to be professional and not say exactly what I want to say to people who are openly hostile to me.

      However, since retail workers have been under fire for nearly two years, it’s destroyed every bit of our faux niceness. Not to mention that some retail workers have been shot and killed over masks, so that’s always been in the back of my mind. My area has a mandate, about 45% of our citizens are vaccinated, but 99% don’t wear masks. I don’t dare ask anyone to wear a mask; I’m just all business. No small talk, no pleasantries, I will only give the briefest answers to any question. They want full service? Wear a mask, as our city mandate requires and that I have to follow.

  132. Mystic*

    Last Friday, I asked everyone here if it’d be okay to ask for more time off after everything that happened. You all said it’d be fine, and it probably would have been, my coworkers and bosses are amazing people. However, I didn’t actually ask. I couldn’t get past the feeling of guilt of taking more time off so soon. I’m saving up leave and might try to take it all later. I’ll still get Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years off, so that’s good.
    I also really need the money, every apartment raised prices and priced me out everywhere, so I picked up a second job and am trying to work ot at the first job. I know my bosses recognize it, because they’ve sent me praise and send me news about promotions, if a position opens.
    Thanks for everyone’s advice last week.

  133. JekyllandJavert*

    Last Wednesday, I had the first round of interviews for a promotion opportunity at my current company (a large, well-known bank). Friday, my Grandma died. As you can imagine, my family is grieving, but we’ve known this was coming, which helped us to mentally prepare. I will need to fly 1600 miles this Wednesday morning for her burial and to help pack up her stuff. I will not be back until the following Wednesday night, so I will be gone a total of 6 business days. I plan on signing on and working as I am able, I am just not sure when during this trip that will be.

    Typically when interviewing internal candidates at my company, hiring managers will find an available slot on your calendar and send you a meeting invite.. I am concerned that, if the hiring manager wants to do a 2nd round of (all virtual) interviews with me, she will see all these days blocked off from my calendar and will change her mind. Am I overthinking this? I obviously need to put me and my family first – that is non negotiable. But to the extent that I can control it and maintain my priorities, I don’t want to hurt my chances of getting this position. With that in mind,, what can I do to mitigate any damage this may do to my candidacy? Cutting the trip short is out of the question, as I need to be there with and for my family. But I can also try, if need be, to make myself available at certain times during the trip.

    1. Mystic*

      Since you’re already at the company, there’s probably a way to let her know that it’s a family emergency. Or they know already, my company sends out emails. But maybe just reaching out to the hiring manager and letting them know you’re still interested, but because of this emergency, your time is a bit limited? Or something.
      I’m sorry for your loss.

    2. PollyQ*

      Yeah, definitely reach out to the manager and let her know what’s going on. But unless there’s a big hurry to fill the position, I would expect that she’ll be reasonable and understand that you’re not available during that stretch. Honestly, I would expect she’d be willing to do that for a pre-planned vacation.

Comments are closed.