open thread – April 8-9, 2022

by Alison Green on April 8, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Anna*

    I’m a marketing campaign and I’m going to start writing a monthly wrap-up email (about campaign performance, projects, etc.) to some people in V-level management. I need help on how to structure the email please! Something that’s easy for them to remember, but not overwhelming with information. This would be more informal, rather than creating a deck. I do marketing in-house (not agency). I’m partly doing this because the once weekly meetings we have are going away.

    I’m thinking to start with –

    “Hi Don and Roger,
    I wanted to send you a monthly wrap-up email on the key projects for the Lucky Strike and Kodak brands since we’re no longer meeting once a week.

    Lucky Strike

    Project A –

    – Brief description, status or final outcome, what I plan to do next

    Project B –

    – Brief description, status or final outcome, what I plan to do next

    Kodak

    Project C –

    – Brief description, status or final outcome, what I plan to do next”

    Please help I’m clueless!

    1. ecnaseener*

      That looks like a good template to me! (I am not in marketing, but in general it’s clear and will be easy for them to scan.)

      1. OrdinaryJoe*

        I agree – I think it looks like a good start. When I’m creating templates, I tend to expand them over time based on the questions I get. So, if you’re asked about X, Y, and Z … include it next time unless it seems like a true one-off question or something just about that particular client/account.

    2. Eleanor Rigby*

      Do you have KPIs defined? It seems like those would be good to include – just top level, with a link to find more information if they want it. And if there are action items for them, I’d pull those out to the top of the email

    3. have we met?*

      I think your outline here is good. Remember, they want to know the bottom line, and you want to justify your continued employment. So make sure to gather any leads/sales numbers and calculate ROI as close as you can.

      1. Merecat*

        Yes, having tangible numbers for management is important. I’ve also found that separating the items in project into different lines, or even a bullet point list, instead of a single block makes it easier and faster for management to read and understand your update.

    4. OtterB*

      The only thing I would add is if you need anything from them – direction, approval for a course of action etc. If so, make sure that’s called out in its own section or bolded or obvious in some other way.

      1. Anonym*

        Put any action (or that it’s just FYI) in the first line of the email. Especially if it’s going to be an ongoing update, people will glance at it and then file it for later. Bottom line up front!

        2. madge*

          I do this and get a ridiculous amount of thanks for doing so. It’s not common here but I suspect it’s why I get faster responses than colleagues from our Dean.

      2. The Prettiest Curse*

        Yup, action items should go at the top of each section, in case they are skim reading. Other than that, this is clear and looks good.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      I would just add, keep your sub points under the projects as bulleted as possible. So the description might be a sentence or 2, but the status/final outcome could be bullets, followed by a sentence on next steps (or bullets if it’s something that could also be a list). I find it is SO MUCH EASIER to get people to read lists (and to read them myself) than multiple bricks of paragraph text. Expect folks to try to skim, and bullets make it way easier to actually absorb info while skimming.

    6. 30 Years in the Biz*

      Hi Anna, I would choose a table to present this information – which is data. Having the same table every month would give immediate recognition of what’s being presented and with a quick glance someone could find the client and project they may specifically looking for (if all the information doesn’t interest them). The client name with project names would be listed down the side of the table as rows and then labeled columns across the top would contain the information you’re updating. Maybe columns labeled: Description of project, Date initiated, current status, actions/next steps, projected completion, and a comment section (you can describe any roadblocks or add additional information here). I would start the email saying :”Hi Don and Roger, in lieu of the weekly meetings I’ve created a table to keep you updated on the monthly progress of our campaigns. If you’d like to add any additional categories please let me know.”

        1. JT*

          If you’re sharing any metrics such as average clicks, engagement, growth, etc. I find it helpful to include the previous updates numbers so they can see what the movement is rather than just current number.

    8. Claire*

      In addition to the other suggestions, as someone who has to send a couple different emails like this on a regular basis (one weekly, one monthly), using the Outlook quick steps to save the basic template for the email has been a huge game-changer, and somehow significantly easier than going back and copying the previous month’s email or a separate document. I set up the email subject line, and as much of the template as I can (including the opening greetings, etc), and then just fill in specific updates each time. For example, for my weekly email, the pre-set subject line is “[Topic] for the week of” and then I just add in the dates at the end. If your projects are going to persist over several months, you can even include the project names in the body of the email so you don’t have to fill those in every time. (You can also set the emails of the recipients when you set up the quick step, but I prefer to add recipient emails last so that I don’t accidentally send it too soon.)

    9. Banana*

      If there is any information on it that can be standardized, including it in table form will make it easy to scan. If you’re using any graphs or similar visuals, sticking to a standard format for those is key also. My exec team would require both – we actually have a universal standard format for bar and line charts and heaven help you if you deviate from it.

    10. Calibri Hater*

      I’m honestly just excited about the Mad Men reference :)

      I agree with The Ginger Ginger on the bullet points. Something I like to do in my reports is color code: green for “all systems go,” orange if I need information or clarification, and red if something is preventing me from moving forward.

      2. JSPA*

        Red-green color blindness affects about 8% of men and about 0.5% of women (X-linked). It’s fine if you use it for yourself…but know that someone else may see two similar shades of gray for red and green, and may see orange as tonally similar to (though darker than) yellow. Will find and drop in a link for, “spectrum then looks like” (aka, this is what your cat sees)

          1. JSPA*

            People can choose to eat or not eat sandwiches. And if ordering lunch were a core part of someone’s job, then yes, they should pay attention to everyone’s needs.

            It’s understood in scientific publications that you don’t use green vs. red for precisely this reason; if 5% of your audience can’t perceive your color scheme, and in fact, your color scheme renders the most important items greyed out…you’re doing yourself and your research and your product, no favors.

            It’s a bigger issue in science, granted, where being able to see how the dots produced by color-tagged antibodies line up, from figure to figure, can be the whole point of a high profile article. Link to follow. But why would you make your product less accessible, as a matter of course?

            2. Calliope*

              I mean, yes, it IS a bigger deal in science where you need to make the whole point of an experiment make sense than it is in an internal email on whom a few people are copied and who at any time could say “oh hey, I’m color blind so when you say X items are in green I can’t see that.” Sometimes communication is a two way street.

          1. Hippeas*

            I guess the people whom it would affect may not know that you’re adding color. Or may not want to speak up about it.

            So it may be a moot point but just wanted to speak up for those folks – the logic ‘I haven’t heard a complaint so it must be okay’ doesn’t extend to all circumstances, especially when it comes to people with different abilities who may not want to speak up or may not be able to, especially if there are power differentials involved.

            1. Calliope*

              Given the historical and current lack of discrimination against people with color blindness and the fact that it’s a pretty common topic of conversation in offices I’ve been in that seems like . . . a stretch. It also seems like a stretch to think Hippeas didn’t explain the color coding system this alerting everyone that it existed.

    11. JSPA*

      “I wanted to” strikes me as giving the answer to a question that’s not been asked, and would not be asked, as it’s clearly a good idea. And you don’t have to announce that it’s monthly (which might send them to look for time conflicts 3 months from now. Nor even what it replaces (they know you’re not meeting). I’d just jump right in.

      “Hi Don and Roger,
      This is a summary update on the key projects for Lucky Strike and Kodak, so we have an overview.
      *update
      *update
      *update
      *plans for next
      *Could you [any request you have, relative to those plans (please OK, please drop in any key missing info, please flag me by [date however-many work days from send date] if we need to have a zoom discussion before I proceed on Z, please acknowledge receipt, please let me know if this conflicts with timing for the Toys R Us launch, etc]
      *otherwise, I’ll move forward on X and then Z and Y concurrently; you’ll get another update on [date].

      Invite feedback on what you need feedback on, not on stuff that could be debated, but debating it would be a distraction.

    12. retired3*

      As someone who has written this sort of thing for everyone from legislators to research subjects: 8th grade language and sentence/comment length. Second bullet points. Don’t assume people can read.

    13. Loz*

      Why are you second guessing? Ask Don & Roger what they need & how they want it. Nothing wrong with having a few ideas of your own but if it’s not useful to them it’s a waste of your time and frustrating for them. Ask!

  2. Brit*

    What are hiring questions for when you’re interviewing candidates to be your manager?
    My team is hiring for a new manager to directly manage myself and two of my coworkers. I’ve interviewed candidates for my level and below, but never above. Any advice?
    I want to make sure he doesn’t micromanage and doesn’t get rude and defensive easily.

    1. Mostly Managing*

      I’d be using “give me an example” type questions.

      Give me an example of a time you had to handle negative feedback from an employee

      Tell me about a time you had an employee who knew more about the project than you did

      How do you manage your work life balance?

      Etc

    2. Murphy*

      I ask questions about their leadership style, more hands on or hands off. How would you come in and get to know your team, how have organized your team around a common goal, have you ever had to deliver an unpopular policy and how did you handle it, have you had to deal with an underperforming employee and how did you handle it. Questions about how they support their employees’ professional development.

      Some “tell me about a time you had to do X” can help them speak in specifics about their management experience.

    3. irene adler*

      I would ask them to describe their management style.

      Also, might ask some behavioral questions:
      Tell me about a time when…

      Your report lacked a key skill needed to complete a project.
      Your report went above and beyond what was needed to complete a project.
      You had to discipline a report.
      You had to manage someone(s) under tight deadlines.
      Your report got defensive over some feedback you delivered to them.
      Your boss issued unrealistic goals for your department to meet.

      Be sure to have follow-up questions ready for their responses. Idea being: you don’t want to know what the infraction is, just want to find out how things turned out.

      1. Ginger Pet Lady*

        I like these! I also wonder if a question like “Tell me about a time when your direct report gave you feedback on your management style. How did you handle it?”

      2. Esmeralda*

        I wouldn’t only ask them to describe their management style. Too easy to lie or be vague. Or if they’re not self perceptive, they might think they’re collaborative for instance, but really they’re not.

        Definitely get examples. Lots of follow up questions too to probe. A good topic when doing reference checks as well.

    4. Just Your Everyday Crone*

      What do you think is the most important quality in a manager? –>will give a hint toward style.

    5. Interviewing up*

      Can you give an example of how you responded when a direct report pointed out a time when you made a mistake or were wrong?

    6. Mr. Cajun2core*

      Tell me about a time when you had to have an employee correct a behavior. How did you handle it? One of the main things you would be looking for is that the correction came immediately. You want to avoid surprises on annual reviews.

    7. Dragonfly7*

      What qualities or behaviors are important to you and your coworkers? For example, the method my manager prefers to use to communicate means that information doesn’t always make it to the entire team. The result is that I ask how managers communicate expectations and changes to their employees when it is my turn to ask questions during interviews.

      1. JSPA*

        “What sorts of behaviors need to be corrected instantly, in public? What corrections should be done same day, but in private? What corrections are better delivered via email?”

        “How do you differentiate (if you do differentiate) between disagreement, negative feedback and correction? Examples of each, and how you would handle each?”

        “Do you believe it’s essential to recognize or praise everyone and every sort of good work in the same way? To correct or call out everyone or every sort of problem in the same way?”

        Note that these are not good or bad; they’re, “does this work for you.” For example, I really, really don’t enjoy public praise; I’d much rather have a manager who understands that “good job!” in an email makes me happy, while my name on a recognition plaque feels strange and awkward. Other people are 100% on board with “employee of the month.”

    8. Varthema*

      “Where does the line between supporting your team and micromanaging them lie? Can you give an example of a time when you went too far one way or the other?”

      For responsiveness and openness to feedback, which is also a thing that is super important on my team (lots of peer QA), we do this. The applicants complete a take-home task (which is how we select the interviewees), and then I give them feedback during the interview. I look carefully for how they respond – do they take it onboard, do they argue? Then I show them a screenshot of a typical piece of QA feedback early on in the job, which is *lengthy*, and ask them for their impressions – this has the benefit as well of managing exprctations for our processes if they do get hired! Then I ask them if they’ve ever gotten feedback on this level and how they handled it. I feel like it’s easier to BS an answer to a “give me an example” question, and seeing their live reaction to the feedback (we’re expecting startled but looking for good-natured surprise).

      The thing I’m thinking of changing next time is giving them the feedback to their takehome task in written form before the interview and then asking them about it in-person (“any questions or thoughts?”) rather than delivering it in-person as that’s more in line with our real-life process.

    9. Tabby Baltimore*

      A 2019 AAM post from commenter MissDisplaced offered a list of “20 Interview Questions To Ask Your Next Boss” (https://www.askamanager.org/2019/05/open-thread-may-24-25-2019.html#comment-2491836)

      This was also a question posed by poster Would-be manager, which got a lot of responses:
      https://www.askamanager.org/2019/04/open-thread-april-19-20-2019.html#comment-2439401 (Might want to zero in on comments from AnonEMoose, Canonical23, Smooth Operator, irene adler, RandomU, Manager Her, and NW Mossy.)

      Other questions taken from that thread are:
      Tell me about a time when you had to share critical feedback with an employee.
      Tell me about a time when you had to uphold policy with an angry/upset customer or client.
      How would you handle rolling out a change in policy to your staff you don’t agree with?
      Tell me about a time you had to improve an employee’s performance. How did you go about that?
      Tell me about a time you’ve had to have a difficult conversation with an employee about [dress code/body odor/etc.].
      Tell me about a time where you had to make a big change. How did you manage buy-in?
      What skills would you look for when interviewing for X position?
      How would you handle someone on the team who was experiencing burnout?
      If you got a complaint about one of your team members, how would you address it?

      After the candidate has answered, here are a few follow-up questions that got suggested:
      “What were some of the challenges?”
      “Looking back what would you do differently?”
      “What were some of the things that worked?”

    10. Magiggles*

      How will you build credibility with your new team?
      How do you celebrate wins?

      One way to make sure they manage well is to dig into how they operate when things are going well and when they are going poorly.

  3. working mom*

    Today is my last day at my job. For the first time in my career I was sought after by another company for a position that is perfect for my skills and experience. And the bonus was that it came with a considerable increase. I’m leaving behind a team with an absent manager, for which I filled in that role when my team members needed training, help, a shoulder to cry on. They are already being crushed by the workload as I transition out and have been working to train our hire that started this week. I had an exit interview yesterday in which I laid out my concerns clearly, and my sincere hope is that they take the feedback seriously. So now I’m off to clear my head for a few weeks before starting fresh. Thanks to AAM for helping me understand my value, how to fight for what I deserve, and recognize when the necessary support is not being served at the table.

    2. Should I apply?*

      Me too! I feel a little bad because 2 other co-workers last day is today also, but am so looking forward to new opportunities.

      1. Donkey Hotey*

        It’s a little surreal: Today is my last day and I’m leaving a good team in a troubling company.
        Unfortunately, I don’t get a few weeks to clear my head before the new one starts, but I’m happy for the OP and wish them (and you) well in your new jobs!

      2. Muddlewitch*

        Me three! I’ve been coaching my newish line manager for 18 months, and he’s still failing, and I was getting nothing back. Reading AAM has helped me understand what has been happening to me – undermined, but at same time underpinning!!
        So I’m off to pastures new, where my skills and experience will be valued.
        Good luck to everyone starting new jobs this quarter.

    5. Rhymetime*

      Congratulations! And a big thank you for stating your concerns in your exit interview that could potentially help your former colleagues even when you won’t personally be involved. Although you never know how things will unfold after your departure, it’s important to do when you have the opportunity.

      I had a comparable situation to yours where I left because I was recruited with a big pay raise. I was sad to leave my coworkers, my direct manager, and the director of my department, who were all wonderful. In my exit interview with HR, I was able to share that our CEO was bullying my department’s director and other directors. There’s no way any of them could have shared that themselves since they reported to the CEO. The HR director took it seriously. I later heard that the CEO was asked to leave and while I’m sure it wasn’t based only on my feedback, it likely contributed.

  4. Fran Fine*

    I’ve had a doozy of a time at work these last couple of weeks, but in a very good way. I received a nearly five-figure spot bonus last week, and then I found out I was promoted this week (for the second time in a nine-month span) with a 15% salary increase. I’m now officially a senior comms manager and part of the six-figure club! Honestly, I always hoped I’d get to this place, but it looked very bleak when I first started my career at the height of the Great Recession. I’ll be 35 in a few weeks, and this was the best early birthday gift I could ever receive.

    The downside of all this is, I’ve only been on this team and in this kind of role for nine months, so even though I’ve been working professionally for 12 years now, I still feel like…do I really deserve all the hype? I mean, don’t get me wrong – it’s amazing to have a manager like mine who advocates so hard for me with the executive leadership team (they are the ones who had to approve my promotion), but what if I can’t keep up this momentum?

    And then I was the only one on my team (besides my manager) who got promoted when everybody works so hard – seriously, this is the hardest working, highest performing team I’ve ever been on and ever seen. Not a single one of us is a weak link – not one. I almost feel guilty that I was promoted when they weren’t because I don’t think I did anything that extraordinary to be singled out the way I have been (the board also keeps throwing RSUs at me).

    Has anyone else experienced this? How did you deal, and how did you act around your equally hardworking coworkers who didn’t get the same treatment? I almost didn’t update my email signature with my new title because I was worried about how it would make my coworker who was previously at my level feel.

    1. Karen Carpenter Fan*

      While I respect your concern for your co-workers, if they’re the “highest performing team I’ve ever been on and ever seen” then they’re going to accept (and hopefully acknowledge and embrace) what you’ve earned. This isn’t treatment, you’ve earned it. You’re humble, and that’s good, but you have to put the new title in your signature line because internal/external people will be looking for you. You will return to your job and do the great things you’re doing and all the new things your promotion requires of you.

      Congratulations

      1. Fran Fine*

        Thank you.

        I did update my email address after I posted this since my manager said something similar to what you did, then told me to go celebrate, lol. I’ve just never been in this position before (where I’m the only one being promoted), my team is very small in comparison to most other comms teams, so this was concerning me a bit because I don’t want to see the good vibes we have going sour.

    2. A Beth*

      Wow, that’s fantastic! I think there’s more to being promoted than working hard — personality, initiative, creativity, whatever. So even though your colleagues are also hard workers, you clearly have something that shines. I haven’t experienced what you’re going through so I don’t have any advice, but I’m rooting for you!

    3. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Make a point of giving your team credit — not in a fake way, but for their actual achievements. Do this when you’re talking with higher-ups, talking with colleagues directly, and assuming your new duties. You didn’t choose to be promoted, but you can choose to be gracious about it.

      2. Frankie Bergstein*

        And help to create positive reputations for your team — a precursor to promotion!

    4. Oreo*

      Congratulations! Sounds like a great birthday gift too (happy early birthday btw!)

      Seems to me that you have a case of Imposter Syndrome. While my experience isn’t quite the same (in my role there’s really no upward path to be promoted to, but I have received significant raises/bonuses that reflect how well I do at my work) I can say for certain that your manager chose you for a reason, not just because of seniority or some other arbitrary standard. Like Beth said, you may have other qualities that make you stand out in a good way.

      At this point, keep up with whatever it is you’re doing – especially being as humble as you are. Those under you will appreciate that kind of attitude and will work hard because of the example you lead.

      1. Fran Fine*

        Thank you for the birthday wishes! And yes, I’ll take your advice in the last paragraph especially since my manager is discussing with her boss plans to restructure our team with me as one of two managers. Should that happen this year (and my manager thinks it will), then I want to be a good example for my new direct reports.

    5. All Het Up About It*

      In addition to the comments you’ve already received, all of which I agree with, I want to address but what if I can’t keep up this momentum?

      You probably won’t. And that’s not a bad thing!!! Nothing in life is a straight path upward. Increases followed by plateaus are normal. Even dips are normal. This is not to say that you won’t keep doing stellar work. You likely will, but just because you aren’t recognized in the same ways doesn’t mean anything horrible is happening.

      Without knowing the details, what you’ve described here, is almost like a correction. They hired you thinking you would do X-level work, for this X-level position. But after nine months, they’ve realized you are really doing Y-level work and have adjusted your title and compensation to reflect it. That’s awesome! And if you keep doing that Y-level work for years, that’s also awesome and just like the other members of your team doesn’t mean that you are doing anything wrong. Continue doing what you are doing, collaborating with your amazing team, singing their praises when you can and it is warranted and also enjoy working for what sounds like a great company.

      1. Fran Fine*

        what you’ve described here, is almost like a correction. They hired you thinking you would do X-level work, for this X-level position. But after nine months, they’ve realized you are really doing Y-level work and have adjusted your title and compensation to reflect it.

        You know what? I never thought of it this way, but you’re probably onto something here. I was given an internal promotion onto this team from another one where I also had the “manager” title because I was managing a function. My first promotion nine months ago was to manage a comms program, which – at the time – I thought was a high-level role already. My current manager really took a chance bringing me over to her team because she didn’t know me, and in fact, hired me off the strength of a recommendation from another colleague she worked with who is no longer with the company. (Well, that and my portfolio pieces.)

        But you’re right – I ended up managing a couple of programs, not just one, and they’re already pretty successful in terms of increasing our email open rates and bringing structure and order to the process of executing campaigns, which this team couldn’t quite figure out how to do. So my manager probably sees this and realized, “Shoot – she should have been at this senior level all along. Let me make that happen now,” and here we are. If I think of it that way – that I was bumped up to where I should have been all along – then that makes me feel much less guilty, lol.

    6. Muddlewitch*

      Hey! Congratulations on the promotion, you deserve it! Are you in a minority in your new peer group? You might be feeling the impact of organisational bias that you’ve not felt at a different level?

      “ The truth of the matter is that pretty much anywhere in the world men tend to think that they are much smarter than women. Yet arrogance and overconfidence are inversely related to leadership talent — the ability to build and maintain high-performing teams, and to inspire followers to set aside their selfish agendas in order to work for the common interest of the group.”
      Quote by Organizational Psychologist Tomas Chamorro Premuzic.

      You’ll do great, and your great colleagues will do great because you will lead and inspire them.

      1. Fran Fine*

        Are you in a minority in your new peer group?

        Yup, I sure am. I’m a black woman in tech, so I’m always in that role though and am used to it at this point (it’s the story of my whole life to be either the only or one of a few).

    7. pancakes*

      Congrats on the bonus and the promotion! Try to put any guilt or near-guilt out of your mind as soon as possible. It sounds like you are performing well. Your company is smart to want to keep you, and they can afford to, period.

    8. jadetaia*

      That’s amazing! Congrats!

      I’m not sure how your team is structured, but it could be that some of your hardworking team members love what they do and enjoy their current role — or maybe they have received pay raises or bonuses but don’t want what the demands or tasks that your newly promoted role would entail.

      As an example, I had a job before where they promoted me from staff accountant to an accounting manager/Human Resources/payroll manager role … and managing is HARD. Plenty of people wouldn’t want to move up to being a people manager, or maybe they enjoy the tasks and area of expertise of a more technical position.

      Whatever the reason, it sounds like your boss and leadership team see that your qualities and experience are a good fit for this new role, so congrats and enjoy this positive change!

  5. Instructional Design*

    My sister is burned out from public education, and wants to switch to instructional design (or similar). She asked me for resume advice. While I have content design experience, mine is UX/UI based. I’d appreciate any tips on resume format (should it be plain, or more “slick” to show graphic design skills? Etc.) and what skills to emphasize.

    1. Ginger Pet Lady*

      There are several podcasts, sites, and groups on LinkedIn and Facebook for teachers making that same shift (It’s VERY common these days. To a point that I’ve seen some people complaining about it. (Insert eye roll here. It’s a fine and logical place for educators to move to!) I’m not in that spot myself but I’ve seen lots of teachers referred to them. I just don’t remember any of the names.
      I’d recommend they look for those resources for the best information.

      1. BlueSwimmer*

        I am a teacher and have also seen a lot of mentions of these blogs, podcasts, and other resources on teacher reddit (which is filled with unhappy teachers, so best avoided by anyone who still wants to love the job despite the issues).

    2. Two Chairs, One to Go*

      It’s not as simple as updating her resume. It’s a very competitive field right now. She’ll need a portfolio with projects and to learn technology like Storyline along with learning theory/process like ADDIE.

      I did a great online course that helped me upskill and build a strong portfolio. I recommend she start researching the field and set up informational interviews with teachers who have made the switch. It also helps if she’s open to contract work.

    3. braindump*

      “should it be plain, or more “slick” to show graphic design skills? Etc.”

      TBH whatever gets the point across to readers is the goal. You don’t want to obfuscate information with design.

      (Thinking of when I had to read a scientific protocol from a flashy company. It had 2 inch margins, seemingly triple spaced sentences, light gray font, no pictures….. The last thing scientists need when learning a new protocol is to squint and flip pages every five steps. They impressed the CEO but not so much people working on the instruments.)

    4. Just Here for the Cake*

      Former educator turned corporate trainer here! I highly recommend checking out the Association for Talent Development. They have a bunch of free resources online with a bunch of advice on moving from teaching to talent development/instructional design.

    5. Still Queer, Still Here*

      I used to teach k-12, and have done jobs with about 50% instructional design the last couple of years. Currently searching for a full-time instructional design position, now that I have a few years of experience. Some suggestions in terms of skills: Get somewhat familiar with an instructional design program like Articulate, Rise, or Captivate. See if you can put together a portfolio with on-spec modules of some sort.

      Resume should still be pretty simple unless you’re handing it or emailing it to someone, because most of the organizations are still using ATS software that won’t be able to read a graphics-heavy resume.

    6. Former Gifted Kid*

      Something to be aware of is the difference between education children and educating adults. If she has experience leading professional development sessions or giving presentations to other adults, that is something to call out. I used to work for an organization that hired a lot of ex K-12 teachers. We were willing to provide training on how adult education was different (it was part of our orientation!), but I am not sure all companies would. “Teacher voice” can sometimes sound condescending when you are speaking to other adults. If she is lookin at just doing design rather than leading trainings, it might not be as big of an issue.

    7. Calibri Hater*

      I recommend the Facebook group “Expatriates of Higher Ed Student Affairs” and the LinkedIn group “EDU Pivoters.” There are a ton of people giving and getting advice about switching from education into ID. As others have mentioned, it is a HIGHLY competitive field, but using those resources will help your sister make a plan in order to move into that field after some upskilling.

    8. Anhaga*

      I’ll vote for plain and clear–use the resume to demo information organization and delivery skills. With ID, the shiny stuff is window dressing; showing that you can deliver information clearly, cleanly, and efficiently is really key. And she should look into universal design and accessibility (including the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines/WCAG and Section 508); having even a little bit of accessibility knowledge, and knowing where to look for further info, can be a big boost for instructional designers.

    9. Leela*

      I definitely always preferred a very plain, easy-to-read resume and *hated* the slick, design-y ones so bad sometimes I’d just skip them because they were time consuming to wrestle with and I usually had enough good candidates without it.

      First of all, most companies using applicant tracking systems will have a horrible time extracting the necessarily information out of pretty, heavily-formatted documents that show design skills. As someone who worked in hiring, I really just wanted a resume that worked really well with our applicant software so it wouldn’t take me a ton of extra time to try and track down where our tracking system dumped out their information because it never goes into the right place with fancy resumes. And for a design skills job, I’d really much rather a very plain resume with a link to a good portfolio than a resume that shows design skills (which I’m expecting the portfolio to do!)

    10. new kid*

      As someone who just hired for a content developer role (some instructional design but also technical writing) and had a TON of teachers apply, my biggest piece of advice would be to write a cover letter connecting the dots of how she can pivot her K-12 teaching experience into this kind of role. I absolutely believe classroom teaching skills are transferrable to the kind of work I was hiring for but I also had a lot of applicants, so without a cover letter to connect the dots for me, I didn’t interview people that didn’t have the direct experience I was looking for. But the teachers who wrote a cover letter absolutely got an interview from me.

  6. Career counselors?*

    Has anyone here worked with a career counselor?

    I’m interested in making a career change, but I’ve been working in the same field since I was a teenager and I have no idea what else I’m qualified for or what search terms to use to find those jobs on job boards. I thought it might be helpful to have an expert look at my resume and give me some advice about other jobs I might want to look into.

    If you’ve used a career counselor, was it helpful? How did you find them? Is there anything I should keep in mind before I start the process?

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      I have used one briefly. Moderately helpful, and part was reassuring that I had made some good decisions many years ago. I enjoyed the personality testing

      I found mine through the local community college. Mine actually has a networking group for those out of work/etc. It also allowed me to steer another person away from a toxic employer.

    2. Американка (Amerikanka)*

      I worked with one through my university when I was a recent graduate. They had me take an assessment (possibly connected to the Meyer’s Briggs personality test). It was okay, but I had a difficult time matching the results with practical next steps. It helped narrow my options at least.

      During another time, I met with a life coach (I know quality of these can vary). In that case, she was helpful with helping me process what I wanted and next steps. Through her guidance, I ultimately took the step to purse graduate school part-time to help me change fields form my current job.

      I know Goodwill ahs a career center too that helps with resumes and has a temp agency. Not sure whether or not they would be helpful. My husband did not know what he wanted to do, but found working temp jobs through them helpful. One temp job led to him being hired in a state office.

      Honestly I wish there were more options for people to just try jobs out. It takes such a long time to know oneself and what type of jobs work best. I wish I could provide better feedback, but wish you the best on your journey!

    3. Cate*

      If you went to university, your careers service there may still be able to give you guidance. That’s what I’ve done in the past, they’ve been really helpful.

    4. Catcher in the Rye*

      I’ve worked with college career center counselors before and found them to be helpful with things like getting ideas about how to format my resume, how to frame transferrable skills in ways that employers want to hear, and with what resources to use to find job postings. If you have a college degree, there’s a chance that your institution may offer career counseling to alumni; my alma mater offers free career counseling for life, but it’s a huge public school, so that may vary with other places. Keep in mind that Allison has some articles written about bad advice some career counselors give (search career center on this website to find them). If that’s not an option for you, you might look into local nonprofits or even public libraries that sometimes offer free or low cost career support. I hope that helps some. Best of luck with your job search.

    5. Aggresuko*

      Yes. Unless you want one to redo your resume and cover letter, they are USELESS beyond those two things. Complete and utter waste of my time to even ask about other job possibilities. Like I left after a half hour because she told me you can’t get a job unless you’ve already held that job (which, to be fair, is true here) and I don’t qualify for anything else and you have to fit 95% of the requirements to get an interview and 100% to get a job.

      But if you want a rewrite on your documents, go right ahead.

    6. sunny*

      I loved my career coach and still reach out to her when faced with major decisions. I used her expertise when facing a major career transition (think more than just a new job). She offered some advice on my resume, but we spent most of our time discussing what was important to me, what i was good at and what I valued in life. That self discovery led me to the type of career track I’m on today. She was part therapist, part life coach, part job coach and I’m so grateful. It’s important to find someone you really click with since they are typically expensive. I found her through a personal recommendation, I would encourage you to ask your network who they’ve used and interview a couple. Most offer a free initial session to understand how they work. I would get really clear on your goals before you start with them, are you hoping they just revise your resume? that’s a totally different service. Do you want someone who does a lot of personality tests? Do you want a job at the end? Etc.

    7. WoodswomanWrites*

      I did this with a career coach, who was fantastic. She was helpful in guiding me to find my direction, and recently published an excellent book that enables people to utilize her practices independently. The book is Awaken to Your Calling: A Guide to Discovering Your Career Path and Life Direction by Randi Benator. It’s available on Amazon.

    8. Hunnybee*

      I love this question, OP! I hope you share any good ones you hear about with the rest of us.

    9. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

      I worked with one with experience in my industry. I don’t think I wouldn’t have gotten the same value from a generalist. I would not have agreed to take assessment tests and the like. But that really depends on where you’re at. If you’re open and wanting to potentially make a change, those things could be useful. But if you want to progress in your industry, I think it’s best to work with someone who knows exactly what that means.

    1. WellRed*

      File for UI immediately if in US. Take a few days if more to decompress if you can afford it.

    3. Sandrilene fa Toren*

      No advice but sympathies and a virtual high five for your username. Anybody want a peanut?

    4. Lora*

      1. file for unemployment immediately. find out how much your state pays and how long.
      1. (also 1, not a typo) see what the company who laid you off is making available. Some of them offer resume brushing-up services and things like that as part of severance. But the time to ask for stuff is right away.
      2. let your network know. It may feel embarrassing but let them know you’re available and looking.
      3. take a moment, as much as you can afford
      4. figure out temporary financial arrangements. Pay minimums on credit cards, type of thing. If you anticipate your unemployment to last a while (depending on location, field etc) you can ask for forbearance on a lot of loan payments and such.
      5. if you need a survival job, start looking for one of those. Don’t feel bad about it for one second.
      6. then worry about the actual brushing-up of resume part and applying for jobs in your field or retraining in another field or whatever it is you want to do

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        #5 for sure. I was laid off in Feb 2017 from a job that I hated and was a bad for from day 1. I had 6 weeks severance and then went on UI. But I also did grocery delivery, temp jobs while I looked for a permanent position, because I was being super picky about my next role. It took longer than I thought but I am very thankful I did because I did find the right fit. While I’m looking for new jobs currently it’s because my current job put me on an amazing path. Had I took the first permanent job after I was laid off, I’m not so sure I’d be in this position. So the short term of temp jobs was 100% worth it in the long run.

      2. All Het Up About It*

        Adjustment to 1.

        Depending on your state and if you received severance you might not want to deal with Unemployment yet. For instance, in my state, unemployment doesn’t start until after the equivalent time of your severance. So if you had six weeks of severance, you would be dealing with the UI for weeks, following their rules, requirements, stress and then find out that it was all for naught.

        Now the caveat to that is, sometimes you can’t find your state’s laws easily and it’s certainly better to apply and be denied than to miss out on funds, especially if you need them. But if you know, then give yourself a break! And either way, try as hard as you can not to panic. Give yourself time to mourn, and to relax as much as you are able.

        I was laid off twice within a 4 year period and it sucks. But, each time I have ended up in a different place, making more money and the new roles really changed my career trajectory and salary. I’m wishing you the same.

        1. ThatGirl*

          In my state, at least, you can apply right away — you just won’t get payments until the severance has been paid out (which may be in one lump sum or over the course of weeks). There’s also a “waiting week” in Illinois. So it’s worth investigating the requirements and how to apply right away.

    5. Nicki Name*

      Breathe.

      On Monday, get up at your usual time, put on your office clothes if that helps, brush up your resume, and then start job-hunting.

      Keep to a regular daily sleep and feeding schedule. (If your job made that schedule horrible, now’s the time to try out a more humane one, but make it the same every day if you can.) Try to find time every day to go out for a walk, bike, whatever lets you move around and get away from your computer for a bit.

      Have a project to keep you busy when you’re waiting for people to get back to you so you don’t just sit there spinning with anxiety. It doesn’t have to be related to job skills.

    6. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Give yourself the weekend to be sad/angry. Monday morning, pick up your new duties of managing your unemployment and looking for a new job. Good news, there are lots of people hiring! But while you’re wallowing this weekend, give yourself a little time to consider what your preferred career would look like and how you can make your next job a step up in terms of satisfaction and balance.

      1. Mental Lentil*

        This. You’ve got to give yourself some time to churn through the emotions. If you don’t do it now, you’ll have to do it eventually, and it will probably not be a convenient time. Take time to grieve what you’ve lost so you can move.

    7. Dragonfly7*

      Definitely file for UI immediately, even if there are circumstances that make you think you might not qualify. My former partner and I were surprised during the Great Recession.

    8. quill*

      Day 1) Apply for UI, update resume, upload it to whatever sites / resources you will use to search for a job.
      Day 2) Search for some jobs but take at least half the day to do ANYTHING you have been putting off – spring cleaning, watching a movie, finishing crocheting a decorative butternut squash – anything that brings you joy or sets you up for a more organized and efficient home life while you search.
      Day 3) Figure out your schedule so you don’t do what I did last time and spend 4+ hours refreshing job sites, 2+ hours worrying, and 2+ hours procrastinating every day.

    9. RedinSC*

      Oh gosh, been there.

      Echo the apply for UI immediately, if in US. Or whatever services your country provides. Don’t wait.

      Also, the thing that I went through, that I was not expecting was the sudden loss of identity. Getting laid off was much more emotionally difficult for me that I had anticipated. I even knew it was coming, at some point, just not then.

      So, I would say, recognize that this is a change, BUT it does not fundamentally change who you are. If your social interactions were like mine, one of the first questions people ask is “what do you do?” and being laid off destroyed my answer! But it doesn’t really.

      Deep breath. You got this, Good luck on your job search.

    10. Morgan Proctor*

      I’m going against what everyone else is saying and telling you to take a full week or two off to decompress and not worry about things! Then, don’t wake up at your usual time. Wake up when your body naturally wants to wake up. Wear comfortable clothes throughout the day. Think about what really makes you happy in life. Allow that to guide you toward jobs you’d actually enjoy doing. Enjoy your unemployment payments, and remember that because you’re getting this money, this is not an emergency. You’ll do fine!

      1. MacGillicuddy*

        EXCEPT you should apply immediately for unemployment still holds. Many states have a waiting period that starts when you apply (not not on your first day of being unemployed). If you wait to apply you can lose a weeks worth of benefits.

    11. Texan In Exile*

      Evaluate ACA vs COBRA (if you’re in the US). We took COBRA when I lost my job two years ago and it turns out ACA would have been a ton cheaper for about the same level of coverage.

    12. Bernice Clifton*

      If you weren’t provided a termination letter with exact figures about severance, unused PTO, etc that they are paying out and WHEN, call your payroll dept and ask for one ASAP and make an electronic copy. You will need it for UI and things like applying for new benefits.

      Save the phone number for HR/Benefits in case you run into questions about things like your 401(k) and your W2.

    13. As per Elaine*

      Good luck!

      I don’t think anybody’s mentioned it, but if you’re in the US, start looking into health insurance options. COBRA is usually very expensive (and depending on a variety of factors, the Health Connector or whatever can be pricier than one wants, too). If you have a partner, see if you can get insurance via them.

      Also be aware that the UI website is probably pretty unfortunate, even in the “good” states. (And know that things like “updated resume” and “attended virtual networking event” and “informational interview with professional contact” all count as things you’re doing to look for a new job and you can list them to show that you’re doing stuff — it doesn’t all have to be churning out applications. Though do make sure you do some of that, too.)

      Also, if you can afford to be picky, it’s okay to be picky.

    14. Madeleine Matilda*

      Follow all the good advice above, also take a look at Alison’s books and her advice on the blog for resumes and cover letters when you are ready to begin applying for new positions.

    15. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      Cut any unnecessary expenses
      PrePay or payoff “outlying” things like auto insurance in advance (if you can)
      File for UI
      Get your references lined up, let people know you’re looking
      Update resume/cover letter

  8. WellRed*

    I mentioned this briefly yesterday but wanted to see about larger discussion. The UCLA ad hiring an adjunct. Phd, 3 to 5 letters of recommendation and several years experience. Salary: $0. Maybe someone more talented than can post the link? Think it was The NY Times. Disgraceful!

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      IIRC the position is grant-funded and the candidate is expected to bring their own grant with them. I understand that this is not unusual in academia, and the posting was shared without that context and/or was incompletely written in the first place.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        There’s a lot that’s “not unusual” but very shameful about the treatment of adjunct staff in academia. There’s a reason so many of us don’t work there anymore.

      2. fueled by coffee*

        The additional context for this is also that UCLA’s “lecturers” are unionized, but “adjuncts” are not… so there’s been a move towards hiring underpaid or unpaid staff as “adjuncts” so as to avoid union rules about pay and benefits. Apparently, unpaid “adjunct” positions like this started at UCLA and have been increasing since the 2008 financial crisis.

        As a grad student (not at UCLA), I find this beyond insulting. And I wonder how much administrators’ salaries have increased over the same time period…

        NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/ucla-adjunct-professor-salary.html

      3. Overeducated*

        But this doesn’t even make sense because grants can pay for research time, they don’t pay for teaching a course or advising.

        1. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

          Overeducated:
          Grants can indeed pay for teaching or advising — they can pay for anything that the sponsoring organization wants to support with funding!

          Just in my one university department we work with grants that fund:
          -research (supplies, equipment, and pay for the researchers)
          -teaching courses (pay for the teachers)
          -training undergrad and grad students, or postdocs or junior faculty (pay for the trainees)
          – outreach to the general public or specific demographics
          -recruiting and supporting underrepresented minorities
          -collaboration between different institutions or disciplines
          -travel
          -program administration (pay the administrator)
          -specific infrastructure improvements or capital equipment, and its maintenance
          -product development (i.e. turning a research topic into something that can be patented and marketed, more common on the sciencey side) or creative activity (more common on the humanities side)
          and a few other things that are weird combinations or hard to sum up.

          Erin Sweany on substack addresses the UCLA adjunct situation from an academia insider perspective that aligns with my experience. Higher Education is a dysfunctional and exploitative system, but not necessarily in the ways you might assume from what shows up to to public.
          https://esweany.substack.com/p/free-academic-labor-and-easy-outrage?s=r&fbclid=IwAR1lTpO0Fx_qErExV5coWuw90IIIQ-Fag_lnheoW3f4Ws8rm0Vp1D_GhnEA

      4. Nesprin*

        Yep this is correct- Adjuncts are flexible positions where local scientists not at a university (i.e. at other research institutions, in other departments, expert witnesses etc) can apply to have the right to mentor grad students through UCLA+teach if they want to+ develop a better relationship with UCLA as a whole.

        1. Nesprin*

          And to emphasize, adjunct can mean low paid teaching position, and can also mean membership with department X, when your home department or institution is Y.

        2. L.H. Puttgrass*

          Which is fine if the adjunct really is someone with a day job who likes teaching on the side.

          When universities use adjuncts as a low-cost replacement for full-time instructors (which they do…a lot), it’s less fine.

    3. Американка (Amerikanka)*

      Here’s the link to the article:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/ucla-adjunct-professor-salary.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces-variants-time-cutoff-30_filter_new_arm_10_1&alpha=0.05&block=trending_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=193307105&impression_id=3398428b-b5b4-11ec-b79c-1f341e6df9a7&index=2&pgtype=Article&pool=pool%2F91fcf81c-4fb0-49ff-bd57-a24647c85ea1&region=footer&req_id=684911938&surface=eos-most-popular-story&variant=0_bandit-time-cutoff-30

      I work in higher ed. as a staff member, and find this sad but not surprising.

    4. PostalMixup*

      It’s disgraceful the way adjuncts are treated, but the NYTimes article was a bit too broad. Specifically, they described a graduate student in the microbiology program at Washington University in St. Louis who was required to TA a course, and later found out that graduate students in other disciplines were paid for their TAships. I am a recent graduate of this program, and while those facts are true, they lack crucial details. Students in the biomedical sciences graduate program do not pay tuition, and they are paid a liveable stipend (it’s not a lot of money, but St. Louis has a low COL). The TAship is part of the program requirements, and is in replacement of, not on top of, the usual workload. So she was getting paid. That semester, her stipend compensated her for coursework and teaching, whereas other semesters it compensated for coursework and laboratory work. The vast majority of graduate programs do not operate this way, and therefore they compensate graduate students for taking in the additional work of teaching.

  9. Out of Office message when you’re between jobs*

    I have a kind of unique situation and I have no idea how to word my out-of-office message. My last day at my job at a large state university is Friday, April 22. I will then be taking three weeks of vacation before starting another job at the same large state university. How should I word my out-of-office message to reflect that I left one position and that I’ll be on vacation and then starting a new position? Do I even need to do all that?

    1. Can't think of a funny name*

      Could you just put something like, “I am currently on PTO. Please contact XXX for assistance.”

    2. Mostly Managing*

      Will your extension number be staying the same?

      If so, I’d say something like “vacation alert – I will be back on (date). For issues related to OldJob contact Jim at x123. For issues related to New job contact Dwight at x456 or leave a message”

    3. HR Lady*

      Will you have the same email address if you’re in the same position? If so, just put an out of office for your three week vacation.

      If you’re going to have different contact details, just have your out of office say “I am no longer working in this position and effective 16 May I can be contacted on [new details] where I will be working as a Llama Handler.” I don’t think you need to go into loads of details in either situation!

    4. Teapot Librarian*

      My last day as Job One was Friday, April 22. Please re-send your email to New or Interim Person for assistance. If you are interested in maintaining our professional connection, I can be reached at this email when I begin Job Two in mid-May.

    5. ecnaseener*

      If you expect people to need/want to know that you’re still at the institution, “My last day in [Old Team] is April 22. Starting on May 16, I will be on the [New Team]”

      1. Fran Fine*

        This is what I did at an old job when I was promoted into a new division and knew outsiders would be contacting me regarding cases from my old position.

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      People who are calling you regarding your current job only need to know you don’t do that job any more, right? So your out of office message (assuming you’ll still have one) should say you no longer work in this office, and they should contact Joe at 555-5555.

    7. londonedit*

      I presume the issue is that you’ll have the same email address? I’m guessing you’ll have told the people you work with regularly that you’re leaving one team and joining another, but I don’t think there’s any harm in saying ‘As of Friday 22nd April I’m no longer working with the [Department A] team; please contact [person] for queries relating to [your old job]. From Monday 16th May, I will be joining [Department B]; please update your contact lists as necessary’. No need to specify that you’ll be on holiday in between.

    8. A Simple Narwhal*

      I don’t think you need to do any of that! Typically your email just gets forwarded to your manager after you leave and they handle any necessary follow ups.

      If for some reason you absolutely must put up an OOO message once you leave (and maybe this is normal in academia), you can keep it simple and to the point:

      “Thank you for your message! As of April 22 I no longer work for Large State University. Please direct all inquiries to [appropriate contact].

      Thanks!
      [You]”

      Adjust for your tone and what fits of course.

      Congrats on the new job and enjoy your vacation!

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        I’m a dummy and didn’t read properly that you’re moving to a new job within the same company. Assuming you’re keeping the same email, I think you can tweak it to something like:

        “Thank you for your message! I am out of the office Friday April 22-Friday May 13th. As of April 22 I no longer work for [Old Department]. For all inquiries relating to [Old Job], please contact [appropriate contact].

        For all urgent requests inquiries relating to my new role as [New Job] in [New Department], please contact [appropriate contact]. I will respond to all others when I return Monday May 16th.

        Thanks!
        [You]”

        1. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

          I did the same thing, I didn’t realize OP was staying at the same place. I really like this recommendation.

    9. Murphy*

      I would. I’d say ” my last day in Llama Grooming is Y. After that date please contact Z. Beginning
      on X date I will be in Chocolate Teapot Design”

    10. JT*

      “Thank you for your email! As of [date] I am no longer working with [team/department]. If you require information about [work I used to do], please contact [person now responsible] at [email]. Starting on [date] I will be joining [team/department] as their new [position]. Until then, I am taking time to recharge and refocus and will reply to emails regarding my new role and from ongoing professional connections upon my return at my earliest convenience.

      [Signature]”

    11. Green Goose*

      Thank you for your email. I transitioned out of my role at X on Friday April 22nd. Please contact Fergus McDergus for anything related to [main duties] at fmdergus@college.edu.

      And you can leave it like that, if you want people who are emailing you to know you are still at the college, you could add:

      I will be starting [new role] at [college department] on [date] and if you have any questions relating to [new duties] please feel free to email me.

      Thank you,

      OOO

    12. Midwestern Scientist*

      Recently had this come up with one of my professional contacts and she set her out of office message to something like “I am out of the office from April 1 to April 21. For issues relating to Department1, please contact Replacement. I will be moving to Department2 effective April 21 and can be reached via this email/phone. Until I am back in the office, please contact NewSupervisor”

  10. Maybe baby*

    How can you ask about parental leave without alerting your (hopefully) new employer of your plans prematurely?

    I’m considering leaving a huge company for a small one – so small they don’t qualify for FMLA.

    The timing isn’t great – my husband and I are currently trying to get pregnant and I was hoping to take advantage of current company’s generous (for the US) paid maternity leave then look for another job, but this new opportunity fell into my lap.

    Has anyone had luck finding out what parental benefits are before or when accepting a job?

    Any luck negotiating parental leave at a company that’s not required to offer it?

    If so, please share tips and scripts!

    2. Me*

      Oh no worries here! It is perfectly normal and expected to ask about benefits. Just ask about it as you’re asking about all other benefits. And be sure to ask if there’s a wiating period before benefits kick in.

    3. 1qtkat*

      So I was pregnant when I interviewed for my new job. I made sure to ask about telework/remote work, flexible schedule, and possibility of unpaid parental leave and part time work from the interviewers. When I did get the offer, I made sure to ask for my details about the benefits where I got to hear from their HR person before accepting their offer. I wanted to make sure they were willing to work with the unpredictability of my pregnancy especially since I was going to qualify for FMLA by the twins’ birth.

    4. Venus*

      There are letters in the archive where Alison has responded to this. Essentially ask about all the benefits before accepting the offer, and you can phrase it as wanting to know about the parental leave in particular because you plan to have kids and that timing can be unpredictable. I think you should make it part of the negotiations before accepting an offer, but Alison’s guidance is best.

      1. Ali + Nino*

        “you can phrase it as wanting to know about the parental leave in particular because you plan to have kids and that timing can be unpredictable”

        Nope nope nope – I would never recommend this, if only because you don’t want to give a chance for any type of prejudice against parents/women of childbearing age to pop up in the mind of the hiring manager etc. Let them wonder about it. That said, I agree it should be part of the negotiations before accepting an offer.

    5. Susie Q*

      Honestly, I would stay at your company if you’re not miserable for the generous parental leave policies. A small company that isn’t required to provide FMLA probably will not have a generous parental leave policy.

      1. Maybe baby*

        I am not miserable at current job, and the plan was to stay for the benefits then move to New City to be near family.
        New job is in New City and I clicked well with them, just not great timing

        1. Kathenus*

          If you’d be willing to stay in current job if new job doesn’t have the parental benefits you need, then you don’t have a lot to lose by asking outright. You could say that you really like new company, felt like you clicked with the team and mission/culture, but be honest that these benefits are a factor in your decision and ask about them specifically.

          If you’re leaving current job regardless this is a riskier approach since you’re needing a new job, but if staying is a possibility you have more options/power.

    6. HR Exec Popping In*

      Wait until you have the offer. Ask to see information on their benefits. If they don’t include info on leave of absence, ask directly if they provide any paid or unpaid leave. You don’t need to specifically as about parental leave. Just asking about leave plans should get you the info you are looking for.

    7. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯*

      Just ask! I hired someone and between the offer and acceptance she found out she was pregnant. She asked about leave before accepting and we were able to offer her a full maternity leave.

  11. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    So I had my meeting with my boss ( and another important person) it wasn’t so bad- I apparently need to work in smaller chunks take breaks, eat snacks and my boss will write a list of things I’m supposed to be doing.

    But what do y’all do during breaks to keep yourselves centered? Sometimes I do a little yoga. I also need things that are rewarding since getting paid doesn’t feel rewarding anymore? Lol.

    1. Американка (Amerikanka)*

      Beyond exercising for better physical health, it has helped me to find something that brings me joy and intentionally make time for it. I struggle with the blahs daily at work, but it helps me to make time to go to a classical concert once a month with a friend. I also find nature soothing, so try to make time to walk in the local park when the weather permits.

      My husband is more of a doer than a watcher, so he makes time to do martial arts classes since this bring him joy and friendship. Also (if possible), using vacation time to go somewhere refreshing is great (Staycations are also helpful). I wish you the best in your journey!

    2. Doctors Whom*

      How long are the breaks? What kind of environment?

      I walk my dog for a half hour when I am working from home (I’m basically a tech exec). I put it on the calendar over lunch.

      What about reading a book? Audio books?

      Do you have a portable hobby like knitting? Spend 10 minutes working on that pair of socks.

      I also do the NYT Spelling Bee. I usually pop in between meetings or when I am moving from task to task, because it’s a way to consciously shift focus and get a fresh start on the new task. I never solve the thing in one sitting.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        To be honest I work at home. We’re trying to get a 15 to 20 minute break in between work periods.

        I do have a lot of books on my kindle app and like to collect them. I used to be a jewelry maker but lost my ability lol

    3. Mid*

      I like Pokemon Go if you’re allowed to get up and walk around outside. You get that sweet sweet dopamine from catching the fake animals, and get fresh air.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Maybe I’ll try that. I tried Pikmin bloom but it had too much notification lol

    4. RagingADHD*

      Walk around, maybe make a cup of tea. If there’s enough time, I go outside for a few minutes. If not, when I was in the office I’d chat with a coworker. At home I’ll start a load of laundry or plan dinner.

      Of course at home I can also play with the pets, and it is quicker to step outside for a minute on a short break. That’s certainly more rewarding than doing chores.

    5. Jora Malli*

      I do fill in puzzles. They’re like crossword puzzles, but instead of questions to answer, you get a list of words and you have to figure out how they fit. I buy a couple of puzzle books a year from the magazine aisle at the grocery store, they’re really inexpensive, and then when I have a break I sit down with my puzzle book and some music or a podcast and give my brain a little 15 minute vacation.

    6. Elizabeth West*

      At Exjob, I took my breaks on the stairs. My department was on the third floor—in addition to the elevator, the building had two stairwells, with sets of parallel switchback stairs to each floor. I would do a circuit that started at the very bottom and then went up, down, then up again. When I first started doing it, I could only do it once. Gradually I worked up to three times, with stretching and some pushups against the windowsill at the end. I kept a shirt in my cube I could change into in the bathroom, wipes, and a fan for cooling off afterward.

      I started doing it before I went to the UK in 2014 since I knew I’d be climbing a lot of stairs in the train stations and I wanted that to be easier. It was a pretty decent workout. I kept it up after my trip and it became part of my routine.

      Lots of my coworkers would go outside and walk on their breaks. There was a parks and rec center nearby with walking trails outside. They’d go on those or around the parking lot. The stairs had the advantage of a year-round exercise opportunity even if the weather was bad. It was a nice break; I could get way inside my head while doing it because it was so repetitive.

  12. Not Your Secretary*

    I have two questions about dressing for the office.

    First, my company just got taken over by a new owner and now there’s going to be a new dress code for the first time in 60+ years (going from very casual to more business). Starting in May, I’m going to have to wear an ugly branded uniform shirt at the reception desk. But the real problem is that it’s that annoying fabric so many women’s tops have, where it clings while also being very thin. As a result, even when I’m wearing a T-shirt under the sample I’ve been loaned, you can very clearly see the shape of my bra under the two shirts and, uh, my nipples under THAT. (I have really perky “assets” that tend to poke through all bras I’ve ever had.)

    I’d been hiding the nips by wearing things over my shirts like jackets or scarves or my hair, but this won’t be an option anymore with the stupid new dress code. My chest will be on full display. :/ Any suggestions for a safe way to hide the fact that I have breasts at work? I don’t want to use something disposable that generates a lot of trash, so pasties are probably not a good solution for me–and I sweat a lot due to anxiety disorder, which makes adhesives generally not a good plan. I also don’t want to bind my chest for 12 hours a day since it’s not healthy, especially not when you also factor in the heat and humidity of the upcoming US Deep South summer.

    When I search, I just keep getting suggestions for tank tops and camisoles that don’t actually hide anything.

    As an aside, I agree that we shouldn’t be ashamed of our bodies and shouldn’t HAVE to hide the fact that some of us have visible breasts. But I am closeted nonbinary, and just having a curvy chest is a major source of body dysphoria to me to begin with. I also work in an extremely male-dominated construction office. I’d rather not have my coworkers openly ogling my breasts and nipples, which is exactly what happened with men the last time I went grocery shopping without putting on a bra because I was too tired to deal with it that day.

    Second question: my hair is thigh-length, and extremely thin and flyaway. It’s pretty much category 1 on the Curly Girl chart (I dislike that name, haha–I am not a girl!) I wear it to work in a braid that looks messy the instant I finish styling my hair. You *cannot* keep this hair pinned up or in order; it’s actually what I love about it. Because it’s so thin, it tends to slip out of any hairclips, bobby pins, etc. It’s definitely not going to look good in the stricter new dress code. (Cutting it is not an option. I’ll quit first.) Are there, like, “hair bags” or something I can just stuff my braid in and hide it completely that don’t look out of place in a somewhat formal office setting? I don’t want to hide all my hair, just put the braid somewhere out of sight and mind so it’s not hanging loose and clearly escaping the scrunchies. This is another thing where Internet searches are failing me, this time because I just don’t know the terminology for what I need. The Internet just keeps telling me to how to wrap mini-braids, or to wear hoodies or baseball caps to “hide your new hairstyle from your parents.” (Which also sounds like terrible advice, to any kids out there reading this. Trust me, your parents are gonna wonder why you’re suddenly always wearing your cap or hood up in the house.)

    As you can see, I have NO idea how to do “formal” anything. I’m in waaaay over my head here!

    1. Kristine*

      What you’re describing for your hair is what used to be called a ‘snood’! I just did a quick google search and apparently it’s also used for full cowl-like coverings now, but if you search for ‘snood barrette’, I think you’ll find something that should work

    2. Not Today, Friends*

      Are you open to a little bit of product for your hair? I have extremely fine, flyaway hair as well, and I’ve found that a very light mist of a texturizing spray like Oribe or a lightweight styling paste (much drier than a gel) gives it just enough grip that it’ll stay put better but doesn’t feel like I’ve shellacked my head. Both products can go on damp hair, neither require any additional work.
      (For context, I am a super low maintenance person and would very much prefer to do absolutely nothing to my hair ever, and I’m also very sensitive to my hair feeling “weird”. Both of these products have worked well for me.)

      1. Jora Malli*

        I also have super fine hair that can’t be tamed by clips or pins, and I agree that texture spray is a wonder. I use texture spray when my hair is still wet and french braid it, then spray on some light hold hair spray, and it works better than anything else I’ve tried.

      2. Joielle*

        Another member of the super fine/straight hair club and I like the Not Your Mother’s sea salt texture spray. Like you said, just grippy enough that you can do something with your hair, without feeling heavy or stiff.

    3. Bird*

      I have no ideas for your first question, but for the hair, what about a knitted hair snood in your company’s colors?

      1. Pennyworth*

        Re the clingy branded shirt, do you have a sympathetic manager you can discuss this with? If you point out the current fabric doesn’t do the company any favors as well as leaving you feeling exposed, you might be allowed to get the branding put onto a more suitable shirt. Present it as a problem that management needs to solve.

        Does anyone else have the same problem? A group approach can carry more weight.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      For your hair, the term you’re looking for is a snood.

      For your chest, have you looked into minimizing bras?

      1. Siege*

        In my experience they reduce the visible size of your chest (by smooshing the flesh onto your sides) but they’re a bra, so those of use with visible nipples in bras will still have visible nipples.

        This almost certainly is not a solution given that you’ve got other considerations, but I do find that a bra with thick padding (the kind Lane Bryant sells, not a push up or actual padded bra) helps. I have a little nipple prominence even with those, but it’s reduced by a lot and I’m not aware of men ogling me.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          This is true, but NYS is also looking to reduce projection, if I’m reading this right.

    5. Ihmmy*

      re hair – there’s a medieval style hair net called a Snood that may be what you were thinking of. There are a few options on Etsy though not as many as I had expected. If you’re crafty, a lot look crocheted so I bet you could find a pattern as well for them. You could also look at ways to tie a scarf or kerchief. Alternatively, using a bit of hair spray can help give it the grip needed for some pins to stay more in place (though you’ve likely given this a go)

      Re clothing, I wonder if there are good binders that help minimize in the way you would want? Alternatively there are shields out there but I’m not sure how comfy or effective they are as a regular use option.

    6. Metadata Janktress*

      Regarding chest: full disclosure that I’ve not use these before, but TomboyX sells compression bras that are not as hardcore as a binder, but as the name implies, will compress the breasts. You may want to look into minimizer bras in general as well. There are also camisoles that are made of thicker, stretchier fabric, but you may have to troll department stores for them to verify the fabric type. (I have a couple that I believe are from Macy’s?)

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        I’m using a tomboy x bra right now. My breasts are still visible but there’s not much movement there. It’s kinda a sports bra thing.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Lands End has good quality suits that you can mix and match tops and bottoms on, including shorts or swim skirts for the bottom.

      2. BBNB*

        I was just shopping on TomboyX and was curious about those! I’ve tried binders before but I don’t love the way they look on me (even after a breast reduction I’m bigger than average so they kind of just give me uniboob). I’m NB and my tolerance for my own boobedness fluctuates so it would be nice to have a compression option that isn’t a binder since those are so uncomfortable and don’t do much for me. Anybody here ever worn one?

        1. I.*

          Haven’t done those but swore by Athleta’s Frog bra before top surgery. Much more comfortable than a binder and tbh worked about as well.

    7. LadyAmalthea*

      Would a snood or something similar to what some Orthodox Jewish women use to contain their hair work for you? I don’t know how easy it would be to keep your hair from slipping out over the course of the day, but if you can shove your hair back in very quickly, it might be an option.

      It also may be worth asking if a sports coat type jacket, possibly company branded, would be an acceptable layer.

      1. curly sue*

        Searching for ‘tichel’ will give you options for Jewish head coverings; most will be shown wrapped to cover all the wearer’s hair, but you can wear them set further back. A snood may be a lot lower maintenance, though.

        1. Observer*

          A snood is going to be easier. A headscarf or kerchief will give you a lot more latitude to experiment around with if you want.

    8. OyHiOh*

      For the hair issue, try a snood (renaissance era hair net, much more decorative than the industrial hair nets of today). They come in many styles ranging from closely woven fabric on a soft stretchy band, through to open netted crochet-type designs. You may have to hunt a bit to find something you love but knowing the word to search for, I’m sure the right ones are out there for you.

      1. BlueSwimmer*

        Also look for ballerina bun covers, if you are willing to use hairpins and put your hair in a bun.

        I also have long, straight, flyaway hair. For work, I do a bun with a giant circular claw clip that holds all the hair inside. I still get fly-aways around my face but I just deal with them.

        Back when I was a teen ballerina, we used to use hair gel to get all the fly-aways to stay down to the point where our hair turned into a hard helmet. If I was you, I would just wear my braid and fly-aways and not worry about it unless someone says something. Maybe use ponytail holders in the uniform colors so it looks like you made an effort.

        1. Delta Delta*

          Also tack shops/dressage shops should have bun covers/nets, since the ability to make a horse trot in a 20-meter circle is directly tied to whether your hair is in a perfect bun. (Ignore the snark, but I’m not kidding that this could be a good resource)

    9. Me*

      1. They make nip covers. both adhesive and non based on your preference. Also “t-shirt” bras are designed to be less visible under clothes like a casual thin tshirt hence the name.

      2. They actually do! Look for a snood. Typically its got some kind of clip to attach to the top of your pony or wherever, then a mesh “bag”, To stuff the hair it. Used to wear them for ballet years ago when I didn’t feel messing with a bun.

    10. Marketing Unicorn Ninja*

      For the nipple issue, look for nipple pads that are geared toward pregnant or lactating women. They come in a variety of thicknesses, and are really good at covering up erect nipples. I wore them while pregnant and was really pleased with their effectiveness. (I will post a link in a reply comment.)

      For the hair issue, look for maybe a hairnet. You can braid your hair, then wind it into a bun and slip the hairnet over top. (I will post a link in a reply comment.)

      3. Lady_Lessa*

        Have you considered a shelf bra in a camisole? I know that mine are comfortable and not form fitting. But, I think that my sizing is the opposite of yours

      4. Layla*

        Reusable cotton nursing pads are also the most comfortable thing I have found in heat (as someone who has done two third trimesters in the South in July-September)

    11. Charlotte Lucas*

      That shirt sounds awful! No suggestions, just sympathy.

      My hair is long, fine, & thick. Not curly, but slippery enough to fly away & escape most pins, etc. I do a modified Gibson roll, where I put it in a ponytail, then make a hole right above the elastic, then slip (stuff) the ponytail through. It keeps everything back & looks a little fancier than a regular ponytail.

    12. Dust Bunny*

      You can get barrettes with little bags attached; you can put the hair into a ponytail, roll the hair into the bag, and clip it above the ponytail holder (so it doesn’t slide out). “Snood barrette”? Most of the ones I’m finding come with bows but you can probably snip those off.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Thank you! I forgot to add that what she’s looking for is called a “snood.”

        You can find some really nice ones on sites that sell historical costuming supplies.

    13. CatCat*

      Can you matter-of-fact raise the fabric issue with your manager? “I’ve tried the loaner shirt. The material is thin and clings resulting in it being too revealing. What other options are there?”

      Also, if this is an issue with women’s shirts specifically, can you ask for a men’s shirt instead?

      1. I-Away 8*

        Ask where they order the shirts from and look at that vendor’s website to see if there’s a heavier fabric option.

      2. BlueSwimmer*

        I agree about asking if you can order the men’s shirts or if they can consider other fabric options. I work in a high school where we get school shirts to wear on spirit days and some of us asked them to please consider the fabric sheerness and cling after one too many shirts that none of us felt comfortable wearing in front of the students.

        I’m also “perky” and try to keep my nips undercover because of working in front of teens all day. I like wearing these cheap yoga camis with built in padding from Amazon whenever I’m worried about anything showing. Very comfortable and not hot for me, but I’m only a B cup: Bontierie Women’s Longline Sports Bra Cami.

      3. Mannequin*

        This is what I’d do- ask if I could wear what the men wear, or a different style of shirt altogether.
        If that’s not an option, perhaps going a size bigger than you normally wear would reduce the clinginess.

        I never minded wearing ugly uniform tops at jobs because I’d rather do that than spend my hard earned cash on clothes I will only wear at work, but it still has to be comfortable!

      4. Lida*

        I’m not non-binary, but as a woman I’ve definitely been uncomfortable with uniform shirts before. Regardless of your gender identity/expression, this shirt sounds like a potential sexual harassment liability for the company. If you don’t want to out yourself, you could just say you don’t feel comfortable exposing yourself to your male coworkers in the current shirt and are worried about potential sexual harassment based on the looks you’ve already gotten.

        I agree with previous commenters that if you think you’d be more comfortable in the men’s shirt, you should ask for that. It wouldn’t out you because plenty of cis women (like me!) prefer men’s shirts at work because they’re usually more comfortable.

    14. PeachesLCG*

      Maybe wear breastfeeding/milk leakage pads? There are organic bamboo washable ones. You just stick them in your bra and should be all set.

    15. MaxKitty*

      A term for what you’re looking for, regarding the “hair bag,” is “snood.” Though when searching specify with regard to hair because apparently there is a game called Snood.

    16. SomebodyElse*

      Here are my suggestions for both… sorry if you’ve already tried and they don’t work.

      1. Padded bra (try searching “Tshirt bra” or athletic bra with padding (they exist).

      2. I think you are describing a hair snood. It’s like a fancy hairnet, usually net but can be solid material. Also look for bun cover.

    17. the cat's ass*

      There are snoods-that might work. That’s definitely a hair-bag!
      One of my colleagues in a previous job had very perky assets and our colleagues were 13 year old boys in 55 year old bodies so she wore some sort of plastic nipple shield thing that used a minimum of adhesive. She got them off Amazon.
      The other thing is that that frequently the “male’ version of the company branded polo or shirt is frequently made of a less clingy fabric and is more generously cut and hopefully that is true of your company and you could have one of those instead?

    18. Takki*

      As far as the bra problem, have you tried a minimizing T-shirt bra? They’re usually lined/padded to the point where the nipples aren’t visible and can do a decent job of making the breasts themselves look a little less noticeable.

      If noticeable breasts (and not just the nipple part) bother you that much, you may want to look into binders as well. I don’t know much about them, but it might be worth a look.

      For the hair, I’ve seen fabric headbands that have a hairnet/snood attached to them that might help better than the barrette style.

      Good luck!

    19. Banana*

      My current favorite bra has no lining and I’m prone to nipping out as well. I have a couple of removable bra inserts from some sports bras I no longer wear, that I’ve been tucking into the fav bra if I’m wearing it with a solid color shirt that doesn’t hide anything. Theyre basically just coaster-sized light padding but that seems to be enough to do the trick.

    20. BBNB*

      So much sympathy on the shirt thing! I don’t have any suggestions that haven’t already been mentioned for mitigating the headlights in the short term, but just wanted to chime in to let you know that as a fellow large-chested nonbinary person, getting a breast reduction was the best decision I ever made. I don’t know if it’s something you have any interest in or is feasible money/insurance-wise for you but wanted to offer up some anecdata. One of the side effects of the surgery that I did not expect (though it may not be the same for everyone) is a major decrease in sensitivity which means the nips do not get pointy nearly as easily/often.

      1. mreasy*

        Cis lady here and I would like to second a recommendation for breast reductions in general! However mine hasn’t made my nips less temp-sensitive.

    21. The Ginger Ginger*

      Is there an option to wear the “masculine” style shirt instead of the clingy one? Perhaps if you asked in the context of the fabric being too thin (without all the gory details)? I’m guessing not, because it sounds like this new dress code is going to be super gendered, but was wondering if there was a way ask without outing yourself. I bet the masculine shirts aren’t thin and stretchy -_-

      1. lost academic*

        I agree on this. 2 babies later and the type of work/polo shirt that is the norm these days is just awful for clinging and regular underlayers don’t help at all. All the suggestions above are great but even together might not get you there and it becomes a LOT to do every day for work. I would be surprised if there were serious pushback on ordering the “men’s” cut. (I am tall with long limbs in the first place and am not a fan of “women’s” shirt cuts across the board.)

        1. Jora Malli*

          I have a long torso and a lot of women’s shirts are too short for me, so I order the men’s options a lot. I haven’t had a workplace push back on the request.

      2. Eff Walsingham*

        Seconding this…. At my last corporate gig, several of us female-presenting people just listed ourselves on the form as “Men’s XL”. If asked, I *could* have said it was for the pockets, or I *might* have pointed out that the women’s style safety vests weren’t tearaway(!!!) because apparently we are “just for show”?! But actually the men’s vests were all mesh in the back, and I need all the help I can get in the hot summer months.

        Bonus: all my company swag was super roomy with nice long sleeves, and not tight in the armpits like so many women’s styles seem to be these days. :)

      3. RagingADHD*

        You could certainly try saying that the shirt just doesn’t fit right.

        If the person in charge of uniforms is majorly into gender norms, you could also try the wording that it “feels immodest” because it’s too clingy. Sometimes it’s easier to speak their language than fight the battle.

    22. Teapot Wrangler*

      T shirt bras are that bit thicker so should hide things. Would a hair net work or were you thinking something more substantial?

    23. Merci Dee*

      Look for some lined bras. Not push-up bras, necessarily, but they have a layer of foam-type lining between the outside decorative cloth and the inner cloth. They’re designed to help with exactly this issue, though they have other good uses as well — such as disguising a mild asymmetry, if one size is less than a half-size larger/smaller than the other. All of my bras are lined, and they’re a really good investment for a smooth silhouette under a variety of clothes. Word of warning — do not put them in the dryer after washing. They either need to lay flat to dry, or drape them over a clothes hanger if you have two or three that you’re drying at the same time.

    24. Miel*

      Do you think you could ask about wearing layers? Maybe you could wear a company branded athletic jacket, fleece, or vest over the polo? Or even a florescent yellow safety vest? (not sure the vibes at your job, but when I worked construction I wore a safety vest constantly!) Layering is the classic trans trick, lol.

      Also, would your employer be open to feedback on the uniform? It sounds like they need to change to a new uniform vendor. There are tons of companies out there that put a custom logo on a shirt – surely one of them has a women’s shirt that doesn’t suck.

      Good luck. This whole thing sounds frustrating!

    25. Lizzie*

      for your chest “issue” i have the same problem, and use these small, silicone pads that have no adhesive; you just lay them on top of the nipple, and the heat of your body kind of molds them in place nad your bra holds them in. you don’t even notice you’re wearing them! . I too am always hot, adn I really have never noticed any major issues with these. i got them on Amazon; they’re called dimrs. they’re about $30 but I’ve had mine for a good 10-12 years and aside from losing them periodically, i have had no issues at all. you can wash and dry them as often as you like.

    26. RagingADHD*

      Sports bra with padding?

      A padded bra can seem counterintuitive if you’re looking to minimize, but if you get a high-support model with insertable pads, you can layer the pads for more coverage. The insertable swimsuit style pads don’t add much bulk, and can be tacked in place with a couple of hand stitches in the armpit area.

    27. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      You might also decide that you will be happier in a less formal environment and use the opportunity to look for a better job.

    28. Dragonfly7*

      My company has a similar problem with its women’s shirts being somewhat sheer and with Vs deep enough that they don’t work well for folks with large chests. You can definitely justify being allowed a men’s shirt if it isn’t already.
      I also have thin hair that doesn’t particularly like to stay up if it is freshly washed. My favorite is to wind mine into a somewhat bun that is secured with a circular claw clip, but it needs to either be the day after washing or have some product that adds texture in order to keep it in place. Would a low, smooth ponytail be acceptable under your dress code?

      1. pancakes*

        I didn’t think about clips. The brand Chunks has cute ones. I have a couple and they’re sturdy, too.

    29. HalloQueen*

      While it won’t hide the fact of wearing a bra, the original Victoria’s Secret, Body By Victoria – Perfect Coverage has enough fabric and “padding” to prevent nip slips. It’s not a push-up, it comes in business colors of beige, white, and black, and they hold up well if you let them air dry.

    30. HannahS*

      Consider silicone “petals” that you place inside your bra–they’re designed for when a person is not wearing a bra at all, but they’re a non-disposable solution. Another one would be nursing pads (fabric ones), which might be more comfortable in the heat as they’re designed to absorb liquid.

    31. pancakes*

      How about a cami or tank top with a built-in shelf bra?

      I don’t think I have a hair suggestion, sorry. Could you just keep it back with a headband or does it have to be up?

    33. CMR*

      Re: the nip/bra issue… You can buy non-padded bra inserts (sticky or not sticky) that conceal certain things well. My favorite bra is unlined and I also have very perky nips that easily show through. I bought a few pairs of non-sticky inserts and they’re fantastic. They are not disposable and I wash them with my bras, so no concerns about waste.

    34. Fern Sea*

      Fellow big-chested enby here!

      Since you’re already wearing a full undershirt, and the nips issue is more about dysphoria than worrying about creeps at work (I assume and hope!), would it be possible to wear a men’s style with thicker fabric? Or are they all so thin and clingy?

      Also, for what it’s worth, I hear you about binders–hot, painful, etc. I’ve also been exclusively binding for the last four years, usually 18+ hours a day, since I found a company whose products actually fit me, and nothing has done more to help my everyday dysphoria. The company I get mine from is MyDouble Design, and they make a fully mesh version that, while hiding nothing visually, is breathable enough that I’ve never gotten overheated. I’m short and big, and this was the first binder company I found that actually made me feel included.

      Big hugs. This is such a tough issue to navigate at work!

    35. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Why can’t you wear a matching sweater or blazer over the branded shirt? What if it’s cold? (offices can be freezing)

      Can you switch to sports bras? They tend to be much thicker and many are also lined.
      I have also seen some bras that have extra coverage or padding in the nip area, like T-shirt bras. There are also reusable silicone circles that you can place over the nip and inside the bra. I often wear a bra + a tank or cami over it under the shirt which gives extra coverage without being too heavy.

      Not sure about the hair, but probably your best bet is a pony or a braid with some setting spray or hairspray to set. I have baby fine hair and can’t live without hairspray to hold it in place.
      The “hair bag” you described is called a snood.

    36. Hippeas*

      You got some great suggestions about nursing bras or pads; you could also look into nursing sports bras. They will give you some smooshing while also providing 100% nipple cover because of the thick padding; or you could use an existing padded sports bra and just stick a nursing pad in there, but I don’t know if the pads will shift around, so your mileage may vary.

    37. beach read*

      I didn’t see if anyone suggested this, but my thought would be to take the shirts to a professional, (tailor, seamstress, etc), and have some kind of lining sewn in the front. Probably wouldn’t be too expensive.

    38. Not Your Secretary*

      Everyone, thank you so much! I got tangled up in busywork all weekend and couldn’t come back to the thread, but you’ve all helped me expand my vocabulary and my options.

      A bit of clarification since it got brought up a few times: no, men’s shirts for the uniform are not an option. Because apparently these super clingy, not well-made shirts are the unisex option! I guess at least the manufacturer is making terrible shirts for ALL genders, not just women….

  13. Me*

    I worked for a bully of a boss for 3 years. It was bad enough that it seriously affected my mental health and I was near quitting. Fortunately I was move out from under him and COVID gave me a well needed break form having to interact. I was not the only person bullied, but I was the one who was vocal to my grand boss about the abuse.

    Flash forward 2 years and I now work for Jr Grandboss. It has come to my attention that two newer employees who report to bully boss, are starting to complain about how they are treated. But not to anyone who can do something about it. Which I deeply understand – pushign back on a boss who is already bullying you seems like a terrible idea, and the fact that hes seemingly allowed to behave this way makes you feel like there’s no point in going up the chain to bosses you dont’ really interact with are “scary”.

    So I feel I need to say something yet again. Since the bosses arent subject to the bullying I think they just chalk it up to he’s difficult but that’s just his personality.

    How do I say that it a productive manor?

    I’m tired of (primarily female employees) being subject to this and having nothing be done.

    1. irene adler*

      To me this sounds like a bias the boss has against women.

      “Why is that only the women at this company have to put up with [boss name]’s difficult personality? Just wonder if there’s some kind of liability we are vulnerable to given [boss name]’s treatment of women. “

      1. Me*

        You are absolutely correct but its’ tricky. Bully Boss is in general an ass.

        He’s just especially an ass to women. Which further makes it easier for the male bosses to dismiss as “it’s just his personality”.

    2. jane's nemesis*

      Do you have an HR department? Can you ask them to investigate the reports you’re hearing that the newer employees are being bullied and confirm that your previous experience corroborates that?
      (Totally understand if you feel uncomfortable saying anything, but it could really help these junior employees if you’re able to.)

      1. Me*

        We do have HR. I’m not sure how they are about handling things of this nature, but you are absolutely right about helping junior employees. I’ll def keep it in mind.

    3. Venus*

      Focus on the business effects if those exist, especially if the employees have options elsewhere and are likely to leave.

      1. Me*

        Ugh this is such a sticking point to because of the nature of the work.

        We’re government, so while people can and do leave/transfer, mostly people stay and put up with bad bosses (government wide) because of things like trying to stick it out for the pension. And of course the employees just try to put on a brave face so it’s not even like everyone is moping around.

        We did have one person leave, who confided in me (not helpful) that he and the toxic environment was definitely part of leaving but I’m not sure second hand relaying stuff helps the case at all.

        1. Hippeas*

          You never know what a person has been written up for already, or would be written up for if they knew. Sometimes leaders are glad to get more information on a bad employee, because they are waiting for a reason to build their case against them.

    4. Jora Malli*

      This might be a situation that would work better if you can get a group together. You know you’re not the only person this guy bullied, you know he’s still at it, and you know how hard and scary it can be to be the only person willing to make official complaints. But can you reach out to the people you know who have been subject to his bullying and schedule a group meeting with HR? It’s a lot less intimidating if you’re one of half a dozen people than if you’re the only one.

    5. HR Exec Popping In*

      The people who are dealing with the bad boss need to speak up. Nothing can happen unless they do. If you tell someone that other people are being mistreated will just result in them maybe reaching out to those people to learn what is going on. You should advise them to go to HR as a group or to the boss’s boss.

    6. Green Goose*

      This is coming from experience of having a bully boss for 18 months before he was finally let go.

      If other systems seem to be generally well functioning at your job (i.e. not toxic) please urge them to speak up, and if you are able provide your experience as well. I silently suffered for 18 months of being treated really terribly by a former boss because it was like constant psychological warfare and I was convinced that if I said anything things would somehow get worse. It ended up not being the case but I truly believed it at the time.

      When I finally got the courage to say something to his boss, it was taken seriously and since he was also treating other lower level female employees similarly it was more credible than if it were just one of us. I even found out that he got another job that was got fired from much quicker because his new Green Goose was not willing to put up with the same treatment as long as I was.

      I hope you guys can get rid of him!

  14. what even is a name*

    Business analysts, project managers, and similar, how did you get into the role? I had a phone screen for a business analyst position the other day and the conclusion was they’re looking for someone who already has experience in that type of a role. If I’ve got aptitude but no experience, where might I try starting? What would the next rung down on the ladder be?

    1. Eleanor Rigby*

      The entry level title for project manager is often “project coordinator” – try looking for those roles?

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Be sure to read the job description carefully. According to the instructors in my PM course, in some companies, project coordinators provide administrative support to the project managers, while in others, they manage projects in the absence of a designated PM role. There could be a measurable difference in terms of salary and how the organization classifies the position.

        Depending on the company, it can be a good way into PM work if you have admin experience.* To move up, you can get a CAPM or Project+ certification (they’re basically the same) and work your way to the PMP cert.

        *says the person who does have a certification but can’t seem to get one of these jobs to save her damn life; YMMV

    2. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I got a BA role because I had industry experience and a track record of making non-tech related processes improvements. But it was mostly about personality for they were looking for. Someone who could deal with constant changes and still get things accomplished. I went more into this in last week’s open thread, but I applied for something different at the company but the recruiter felt I was a better fit for the BA position.

      So, just keep trying. Or find a company in the same industry and focus on that, or get your foot in the door on the business side and watch for internal openings. Really the business side is really important to know to be a good BA.

      1. LC*

        Exactly this. This is a much more succinct way to say what I was trying to say below, lol.

        (And succinct written communication is a huge plus as a BA. It’s one of my weaker points, but I’ve gotten better over the years.)

      2. cat socks*

        Agree about getting your foot in the door. In my company, BAs usually work with IT to automate manual business processes or make enhancements to software that we use internally. If you make yourself a subject matter expert on business processes, that would be a good transition to an official BA role.

        I’m on the IT side, but we are doing Agile software development. It may help to familiarize yourself with some of those processes. A while back Six Sigma was a thing at my company, but not sure how popular it is now.

    3. LC*

      Here was the path to my first BA role:

      I was a supervisor at the call center of a fairly large US retailer and got a reputation for … I dunno, fixing things? I had a tendency to find an inefficient process that no one had questioned in years, make it a lot easier for myself, then share it with the rest of the team. Or I’d notice something that didn’t make sense, which I’d obviously have to then figure out, and would sometimes uncover errors or bad practices or issues that no one else had spotted.

      That led them to moving me into a newly created role that was like 30% regular supervising duties and 70% other stuff that was more fun and I was better at. I still had the same job title of “supervisor” though, just in a department with a made up name (they had me name it, I definitely would name it something different today).

      When I finally got fed up enough with, well, everything in that division, I started applying to other roles within the company. I think I ended up applying for something like 60 over a few months, had several interviews for BA roles, then finally got one in a very small but very important division in corporate that I hadn’t even heard of till then.

      I think what did it for me was
      a) I had an excellent interview, they asked questions that showed off what I could do and how I approached things (curiosity is one of the biggest strengths for a BA, I think), and
      b) I was an internal candidate so I think they were able to get much more candid feedback from the higher ups that I’d been working with, so they got a better idea of what I wasn’t great at (managing people, which I specifically wanted to avoid) and what I was awesome at (the type of stuff that wasn’t in my job description but was what they needed in the BA role), plus I already knew the business.

      Of course, those weren’t the only two factors; if they had been, I would have gotten any of the other several BA positions I’d interviewed for. But I do think that they were the crucial factors in this particular job.

      Getting a similar role outside of the company would have been way harder for me, I think, but that was 5? years ago when the market was very different. And hopefully this isn’t discouraging, just trying to give an idea of one of many, many ways that it can happen. Good luck!

      1. sp*

        This is the path I’m currently on! Glad to hear it’s worked out. I enjoy it, but I am definitely underpaid. At the moment I am mentally treating it as a paid internship, as I have no formal training and they are reimbursing me for Business Analyst certificate courses. It’s inspired me to return to school and complete a bachelors, but I am torn between computer science or commerce. Any advice on that front?

    4. Joyce To the World*

      I can’t seem to get away from being forced into the BA and PM roles despite not being certified for either. All I can say is to actively take an issue or project you are working and apply project management principles. You can actually “project manage” a lot of things. This will give you experience that you can turn into bigger and better stretch opportunities.

    5. what even is a name*

      So I guess maybe the issue is that I’ve never had the sort of job where there were any projects to work on? I worked part time at a help desk through college, then had some crappy cashiering jobs interspersed with unemployment, took a jack of all trades but mostly putting things in spreadsheets sort of role that dropped into my lap at a small company until I got laid off, and most recently I’ve been a mail carrier with USPS.

  15. Doug Judy*

    I have 3 final round interviews next week! Hopefully I get at least one offer. One position would be my first time with direct reports. It’s a good fit, but also a bit nervous to be “the boss” but I’m not the head of the entire department so that helps ease me a bit, I’ll have support as I learn. The other two are individual contributor roles. So two totally differ tracks I can take, but I’m excited.

    1. Американка (Amerikanka)*

      It is a compliment to you that you have made it this far in the process. Wishing you the best in your interviews!

  16. Funny Story*

    I’m in a crazy workplace, a start up where you never know what you’re walking into. They announced title changes for our department from Project Managers to Project Onboarding Specialists. Our team was commonly referred to as PMs and our new shorthand is POSs. No one seems to have complained but I’m having a really hard time considering myself a Piece of Sh*t. They rebranded everywhere and even put the shorthand in a client presentation… Cannot wait to mention in in my exit interview.

    1. Fran Fine*

      LOL! Noooooo. I can’t believe no one caught that and changed it. And I’m floored that the clients didn’t say anything either.

    2. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      My first thought is always Point of Sale…but I understand your chagrin. And somebody was PAID to come up with that.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      Holy cow!
      And please let us know how they take it in your exit interview.
      What the actual f–?

  17. Rayray*

    We recently did one of those employee engagement surveys. I know I and a couple others gave some low scores and constructive criticism in the comments.

    There’s been a weird vibe lately and I’m pretty sure our supervisor and manager are mad about the results. I get it, it probably sucks to get reamed in that survey but I can’t understand why they wouldn’t look for ways to improve rather than be salty about it.

    But for what it’s worth, one person is moving to another position in the company next week and o know for sure 3/5 remaining are looking for other jobs so….

    1. Aggresuko*

      Hahahaahah, I continue to give numerically bad scores on those, but I learned not to write comments because they can and will identify you to your supervisor.

      They don’t WANT to improve, they just want to LOOK like they want to improve.

    2. TimeTravlR*

      And they are looking because the managers get salty about surveys they asked you to fill out. LOL

    3. Американка (Amerikanka)*

      I never understand why some supervisors have such thin skin! If they can’t handle feedback, there is no point in even doing a survey.

      I supervise student workers and would rather know the truth if I surveyed them even if it is not fun to hear. I know that I (like everyone else) have blind spots, so would consider negative feedback constructive.

    4. Miel*

      This is the weird thing about employee surveys! Alison has written about it before – there has to be a culture of trust – and management needs to be good – in order for the survey to mean anything.

      My department has pretty good management overall, but a couple years ago they responded to low-ish satisfaction scores with “let’s do a team building event!” instead of the logical solution of adjusting workloads to be realistic.

    5. Banana*

      I did one of those this week and rated everything 4/5 and added no comments. My boss’s shortcomings are well documented and if they haven’t done anything about them by now, they’re not going to in response to a survey they ask me to fill out every six months.

      In another forum, I gave feedback on the company’s treatment of female employees a few years ago and found out that my group’s HR manager was more interested in learning who I was than on taking the feedback seriously. And another time, I worked to rehire an employee who left, and had to fight HR to justify why it made sense to hire him when none of the problems he’d raised in his exit interview had changed (mostly my boss’s shortcomings.) They have burned the feedback bridge with me at this point. I am here because my work is interesting, my commute is short and close to my son, and because I hate job hunting.

    6. CatMintCat*

      We are expected to do a survey every year to tell our employer how wonderful it is working for our huge statewide department that is woefully mismanaged for those working in the trenches (ie, in schools). However, to fill out the survey we are required to be signed in on a department-issued computer using our department-issued login.

      I cannot nope out of that survey fast enough.

    7. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

      This reminds me. We were supposed to have our annual employment engagement survey and I was dreading it. Funny, it hasn’t come out…

  18. matcha123*

    I found out last month that my work contract wouldn’t be extended and I’ve been frantically searching for something. After applying to a number of places and having some interviews, I’ve got one very promising lead.

    I will have the first negotiations? next week. And that would be fine, but I’ve been called for an interview with another place the week after next.
    The first place is at a startup and they may or may not meet my salary expectations. The role is interesting and might allow me to branch into another field, although I’m not clear whether that would be the case.

    The other possible job is at a more established place and would offer more vacation time and might offer a welcome mental reprieve from what I experienced in my last job. I would feel terrible about taking a job only to quit a month later.

    The logical part of me says that I should take what I’m offered (I can’t really afford to wait many months and take my time with a job search).Then if I am offered something better? go for it.

    Nothing is in the bag, but I’ve never been in this kind of situation and really need some advice.

    1. kat*

      I am extremely risk averse.
      I did take a job with a start up- which shut down 9 months after I started.
      I’d take the established job- use that time to hopefully build up your mental and cash stores.
      Then take your time searching for the right job for you.
      Maybe it will only take a month, but more likely it will take you a few months to really feel good and then a few more to find the best job for you right now.
      Good luck.

      1. matcha123*

        Yes, I’m extremely risk adverse myself which is why this is really messing with me.

        The startup will most likely come back with an offer early next week.
        The established place wants an interview on the 18th. Turning down something that’s basically a done deal for something yet undecided doesn’t sit well with me. Would you pass on the startup and hope the established place comes through?

        1. RedinSC*

          Would there be any way to postpone giving an answer to the start up, so you could go to the interview on the 18th and see if you think you really might 1. want the job and 2. actually get an offer?

          My risk adverseness means that I would take the start up job because I would be so worried I would not get an offer from the established place.

          Or, I imagine you have to give some notice to your current job, so you could just ride it out and see if the established place offers you a position before you even start at the start up.

          1. matcha123*

            I don’t know if I’d be able to postpone that long. I got the feeling they were looking to bring someone on asap.
            The established place would also be having a second interview for those that passed the first interview.

            Since my last contract ended at the end of March, I have been unemployed since the start of the month.

    2. AdequateArchaeologist*

      Take whatever offers your first. It’s ok to take the one job and quit for the other a month later, as long as you don’t make a habit of it.

      Last year I was in a temp job, and interviewed for another job at company B to start after my tempt assignment was up. While waiting to hear from the new company B I was offered the position with the company I was temping with +company A). I took it. Two weeks later heard back from company B, and left the temp-now-perm position at company A. I apologized profusely, did everything I could to ease the burden on company A during the transition, and happily started my new job doing what I actually wanted to do at company B.

      It was a little uncomfortable and I felt bad at the time, but it’s worth it for security and job satisfaction.

    3. EMP*

      Thinking that you have to decide between these options now is premature! You may not get the first offer, and if you do it might not meet your needs, and if it does you may not need to make a decision before you get in touch with the other company.

      1 – IF the start up matches your salary expectations, see if you can get them to extend their offer so you have time to consider the more established place.
      And tell the more established place when you have an offer from the start up – tell them you’re very interested in Established Business but you just got another offer which needs a decision by X. See if that fits their usual interview timeline. Most places, if they like you, will speed up the process as much as they can if they know they have a deadline.

      2 – it’s fine to quit your job after a few weeks, and tbh probably won’t hurt you in the long run. You can leave it off your resume and it’ll be fine. But if it’s a small industry know that you’re definitely burning some bridges with your coworkers there. Maybe not completely! But if you wind up interviewing with them again, you will have a big mark against you. My team had a new hire who in retrospect very obviously used us as a “temp” job while he continued interviewing. He phoned it in and left after a few weeks for a much bigger company. His work history contained several short stints so that was already a red flag, but if he ever came up as a candidate again I wouldn’t hire him.

      1. matcha123*

        Re your #2, I definitely do not want to be seen as a job hopper! I do have two jobs in the past 15 years that were seven months or fewer, but I am mostly in the same place for at least three years.

        Very nervous even though nothing is yet set in stone!

  19. Mimmy*

    Gut check on internship
    Site: Disability services office

    I’m in the last third of my semester-long internship for my master’s degree. It is not a required program component since most people in my program are already in the field; however, it is an option for those not yet in the field. It’s been an okay experience – everyone is really nice and supportive, but my gut is telling me that this experience could’ve been better.

    -Small office with only 2 full time staff; the rest are part-time
    -Interns’ main role has been to provide academic coaching to students. I appreciated the hands-on experience, but we were given zero training; all that was provided are resources to look through (sample questions, various links on building academic skills, etc.)
    -No 1:1 supervision required – I had to ask for a weekly check-in (which I got and has been helpful), I think that is specific to the school setting up placements
    -Interns are a mix of on-site and virtual grad students. Virtual students have a harder time accumulating hours because if a student doesn’t show up, then it doesn’t count. On-site students can get hours because they’re physically at the office.

    I’m starting my job search and I’m just concerned that I didn’t get the experience that employers will want to see. I have been told that a lot of learning takes place on the job. I just hope that my experience to date will be enough.

    1. Alice*

      I know there’s not a lot of time left; can you propose a little project that you could do and then brag about (excuse me, discuss) in future cover letters and interviews? If you can identify something that is useful and tangible, even if it’s small, that would be a plus in my book.

    2. kbeers0su*

      Ugh. So this sounds like you might be in my former field (Higher Education Student Affairs) because it 100% makes sense that they’re “offering you the opportunity” to get experience as an intern, which actually means they’re getting free labor. This explains why you’re doing something that no intern should be doing- in fact, no employee should be doing- without training. Advising students, especially in an office where students have unique needs, requires training and a specific skill set. My guess is that they ::shrugged:: and figured that since you’re in the grad program, you’re learning enough in class that you can just make it work there as an intern.

      This sucks for you. BUT. As with any crappy job (read: many of the stories on this site) you’ll have things to take away from this. For instance, are you seeing any change or growth in the students to whom you’ve been assigned? Have you found that different methods you’ve tried with them have helped more than others? If you can see changes happening, take note of what is leading to that and try replicating it. I would also encourage you to read up on things like “motivational interviewing” which is a good skill to have when trying to motivate students to do the things they need to do (which is notoriously hard, because college students).

      And when you go out into the job search world you’ll have one must-have on your list for an employer: someone who understands they actually need to train people to do the job, and then supervise and give feedback to people once they start doing the job. Make sure you’re asking questions about what training you’ll receive, or what training they would be willing to pay for you to do so you feel prepared. Make sure there is an actual commitment there, especially if I’m correct and you’re at a college/university- they’re notoriously bad about claiming they’ll train you, but that “training” is a binder full of paper. And if they say they’ll pay to train you, it needs to be in writing and specific- because they don’t actually like to spend money and “professional development” funds will be the first thing out the window if money is tight.

      1. Mimmy*

        You are correct – I am attempting to enter higher education disability services (current field: state voc rehab services).

        A big yessssss to your “free labor” comment. I have a classmate in the same internship, and she thinks that what this school is doing. We do meet once a week as a group with some of the staff to talk about our students and I do pick up ideas and feedback.

        Thanks for the suggestion to look up motivational interviewing. I interviewed for a job last year and I remember the hiring manager asking me what I would do if a student wasn’t motivated. I think the answer I gave could’ve been better *shrug*, so it is something I should read up on.

        Side note: Your comment about the training being “a binder full of paper” reminds of a job I had about 15 years ago at a nonprofit. Same thing – I just read a binder of resources, watched videos, etc. Spoiler alert: I lasted less than a year.

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      This sounds pretty typical, unfortunately. My guess is that the people who staff the office are just trying to keep their heads above water with work as it is and don’t have the bandwidth to supervise interns well. Not a good excuse—it would be better to not take interns if they can’t supervise them. I think simply having the internship on your resume will likely be a plus given that your resume is just there to get you an interview. For the remainder of your internship, I would talk with your supervisor about what experience they’d like to see in an entry level employee and what you can do to build those skills.

    4. MoMac*

      I get so angry about these situations. I’m not sure what your degree is in, but as a clinical social worker for 30 years I feel enraged when someone does not get the training that they are paying for. I just started a new position a few weeks ago and one of my supervisees told me that she did not have training in diagnostic formulation. None! She was not even aware that she actually had to diagnose clients in her job as a therapist. So we will be doing a lot of training. Her first-year internship was a caseworker position that is actually a Bachelor’s level job. I just find it super frustrating because she is in debt for an education she did not receive.

      Yes, so much learning happens on the job. But it also depends on the job. In my field, if you’re isolated doing in-home work or trying to bang out clients in a clinic to meet productivity issues, there is not going to be much learning taking place. So I would look for a place where you are on a multi-disciplinary team and time is taken for the team as a whole to discuss cases. That will teach you how other people think and formulate using clinical language and this will help you to develop your own style.

      Good luck! I hope you land someplace that will focus on your professional development.

  20. anon today*

    Does anyone have good advice on how to distinguish between “this person does not have the soft skills for this open position” and “working with this person will drive me up the wall”, when the truth is it’s a little bit of both? I have serious concerns, but am worried I’m being unfair. (I’m not on the hiring committee, but will be working closely with this position and have already been told I will be asked for my thoughts.)

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Can you give some oblique examples? Did the person interrupt or something? Or do they just have a manner of speaking that grates on your nerves?

      1. anon today*

        This person has no filter and doesn’t really take no for an answer. Also high-strung and, to be honest, has a lot in common with me personality-wise (I am very neurotic), and we don’t need two of me. We need someone who has different strengths, because no one’s good at absolutely everything.

        1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

          I’d just say “Their skills seem very similar to mine, and I think whomever we hire should have different, but complementary skills to better round out the team”. That way it’s not about the candidate so much on a personal level

          And I agree, I like myself but we don’t need two of me on the team. My colleague who’s work most mirrors my work is my opposite, and that’s why it works. Each of us brings necessary but different skills to the table and our team is better for it.

          1. MsM*

            I think it would also be valid to say “I have concerns about their ability to take and absorb feedback constructively or accept when decisions are final, and I think that’s going to be particularly important in this role.” It’s nice to want to keep things positive, especially if this is an internal hire or a small field, but you don’t want to risk the boss deciding that actually, they think two people with complementary skills would be great to have.

      2. anon today*

        This person has no filter, tends to make mountains out of molehills, and doesn’t always take no for an answer. They are also probably a little too similar to me skillset- and personality-wise to be able to balance my weaknesses (we would not be in identical positions, but I have the more internal-facing one and the open position is more external-facing.)

    2. OyHiOh*

      I’m struggling with this too (same situation, participated to a degree in hiring process, will work with person, not involved in the hiring decision): Organization is about to make an offer to one of two candidates. One appears to have excellent soft skills (little soft on the technical side but that’s easily overcome), the other has excellent tech skills but the read from half our staff is “his soft skills are going to drive me up a wall” and the other half of staff are “meh, might be ok, might be a problem six months from now.”

      No idea how to plainly articulate this without devolving into messy culture fit issues.

      1. Lady_Lessa*

        If in a STEM field, please concentrate on the soft skills. That upper education levels it is both more important and harder to find.

        1. OyHiOh*

          I’m not in position to be privy to the final hours of decision making, but based on a couple things my boss has said while pacing around my office (mine is bigger, lol!) I think we are leaning towards prioritizing soft skills. The gap/lag on the technical side should fill in as the person does the work.

      2. Observer*

        Just because they are called “soft” does not mean that they are unimportant or should be ignored.

        You might want to point out that no one who has spoken to this person is confident in this person’s ability to get along in a professional capacity with others. And that a significant proportion of the staff are already convinced that he’s going to be difficult to work with. Then some specific examples of the issued. In this case, the OP says that they over-react to situations, won’t take no for an answer, and “have no filter”. If that’s an issue, I would give some examples, because some things are worse than others. Like if they have to comment on everyone’s food, clothing choices and weight that’s one thing. If the things they are commenting on are the weather and what color cars they saw that day, it’s different set of issues.

    3. NeedRain47*

      Are there other candidates? Maybe focus on how great your top choice candidate is and less on the negative about person who will drive you up the wall. That’s what I did when I was on a committee where one of our finalists had the experience but seemed like a big nope personality wise.

      1. anon today*

        That’s a really great point. My top choice candidate does have the soft skills I think are most important for this position — calm, patient, enjoys being helpful. (And is also likely to get on my nerves a little, but not on external users’.)

    4. Just Your Everyday Crone*

      “I know Cathy has alienated some people because of a tendency to make meetings longer with questions that are off-topic/more appropriate for one on one discussions.” Vs. “I find it difficult to work with Cathy because she asks a lot of questions immediately as they come up and it breaks my focus.”

    5. Hiring Manager*

      If there are subsequent interviews, I usually flag whatever that behavior is for the next person to try to dig deeper. For example, if the job requires working collaboratively, and I got the vibe that they might just run over other people, we might tweak follow up questions to “tell me a time when” to include things like “how did you handle additional follow up questions to your approach” or “how did you get someone onboard with your plan who was initially reluctant”.

    6. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      I would go with your gut. What may seem like a small annoyance now will only get worse over time. Do you think your feedback will be seriously considered?

      1. anon today*

        I do. I’ve actually been in the same department as this person before and I think that will carry some weight. The outgoing employee also agrees with me on her preferred successor.

        I guess what I’m really worried about is charges of favoritism. Yes, I would prefer to work with the candidate that I don’t think is going to cause problems. But that’s just good sense, right? I’ve never really had an opportunity to give feedback before and I think I’m uncomfortable with the idea, even though I can make a solid argument with concrete examples.

        1. Observer*

          Yes, I would prefer to work with the candidate that I don’t think is going to cause problems. But that’s just good sense, right?

          That is why they want your feedback! At least if they have any sense.

          Now, if you just wanted to work with the other person because of reasons that have nothing to do with actually being able to get your jobs done or getting through the day without any inappropriate behavior (eg one person is better looking than the other) that would be different. But what you are concerned about is exactly what you should be thinking about.

        2. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          That’s not “favoritism,” or not in a bad sense. Favoritism is things like preferring one candidate A because they were in your sorority, or only being willing to hire people who are fans of the same baseball team.

          You also wouldn’t be saying “We should hire A rather than B because I have a hunch that A will be easier to work with,” which can be a problem because the basis for a hunch might be unconscious bias. You’re right, preferring the candidate who you don’t think will cause problems is good sense.

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      I would say don’t discount the importance of both soft skills and the ability to work well with the team. That’s completely outside of the definition of “culture”. Is this person responsive to feedback? Do they let others express their ideas, and are they kind when they agree AND disagree? Are they open to training? Do they talk in a way that puts people’s backs up and makes them difficult to work with? That’s not nothing and it’s absolutely not unfair to consider whether they’ll fit with the team. You don’t need a team full of clones to have a cohesive team. In fact, a truly cohesive team has people from all different back grounds and view points and skill sets that are working together well to achieve greater things than they could alone. If a candidate can’t do that IN INTERVIEWS when they’re likely on their best behavior, what’s the dynamic going to be when they settle in and get comfortable?

    8. RagingADHD*

      Why does it matter where the line is?

      The goal is a team that works well together. You will be asked for your thoughts. Driving an existing teammate up the wall is a relevant factor that should be considered as part of the candidate’s fit for the team.

      It may not be the top factor in the final decision, but it’s a data point that the hiring manager needs to hear. Just use polite wording, like “I forsee a lot of unnecessary friction because of x, y and z.”

    9. anon today*

      Wanted to thank all of you for your great advice here! I feel much more equipped to navigate this now. I appreciate all of you!

  21. Американка (Amerikanka)*

    In higher ed., is it possible to change fields and advance at the same university, or would I need to apply for jobs at other institutions to advance?

    I currently work at a academic library at a private university, and am using my tuition remission to enroll in a student affairs. master’s program part time (same university). Since I am over 2/3 through, I have began applying for jobs at my institution that require a bachelor’s to a master’s. So far, I am not getting interviews. My anticipated graduation date is May 2024.

    So far, I am planning to stay at my institution for one year after graduation applying for student affairs jobs that pay more. If I do not get a job, I plan to expand my search to other universities. If possible at all, I would love to stay at my university since I have been there 10 years and have more time-off benefits. However, I want a job that pays more and has growth potential (my current job lacks this).

    1. Murphy*

      I’ve worked at two different universities (both state if that matters) and it’s extremely common for people to switch roles and within the same university.

      1. RedinSC*

        Agreed. BUT also watch out, when switching roles, many universities won’t really give you much, if any raise, and they’ll peg your salary to your current position. Even if the new one is a higher level.

        Sometimes you have to leave just to get out of the salary bucket they’ve assigned.

    2. Aggresuko*

      Could go either way. A recent ex-coworker of mine could only get a pay raise and a promotion at the job she loved by going to my shitty org. Two years later, they still hadn’t replaced her and finally offered her a raise to go back.

    3. Catcher in the Rye*

      In my experience, it’s totally possible to change fields/advance within the same university. Considering that you are earning a degree in student affairs, I think it’s totally plausible to move into a student affairs role at the same school. Some of the people in my student affairs grad cohort accepted jobs at the same school upon graduation. I went back to my undergrad institution to work full time in an advising role and then made a lateral/slightly upward move to an administrative role last year. I work at a very large public university so there may be a lot more positions to apply to compared to your situation. I would recommend trying to start networking now in student affairs departments at your school and applying to positions as they come up. Best of luck with your search!

    4. cactus lady*

      Go to a different university. I learned that at many, even if you do find another job in the same institution, your salary may be capped based on your current salary. I moved up 4 steps in promotion once, and the cap was a 10% pay raise no matter the title. Leaving for another institution has been the only way I made any real progress at salary increase.

    5. Uni Admin*

      It is common and, in my opinion, now is a great time to do it as there are more openings than ever. I work in a specialized admin field (sponsored research) and we are looking for candidates like you for our roles (i.e. people with university experience looking to come into our field). I would try to talk to people you know and see if they have connections in the departments you’re interested in – sometimes that can get your foot into the door before a job has even been posted.

    7. Midwestern Scientist*

      Sometimes depends on size of institution as well. Common knowledge at my University is that promotions from your current boss are capped at 10% and even that is VERY rare but even moving within department (especially if you get a new job title) is an unlimited increase (within the pay band of the position’s title)

  22. Potatoes gonna potate*

    I have a call later on today with the HR of the company I contract with. The nature of the call is to check in, are we open to opportunities etc. I worked with them for about five years before I was laid off in 2020 and came back last year as a contractor. I am considering saying I would be open to a FT opportunity. They are on a hybrid remote model, 2 days in and 3 days remote. My motivation for this is 90% financial and 10% social. 

    I do miss the regular light social interactions of being in an office. And I also miss having a steady paycheck. 

    On the other hand I have enjoyed the time flexibility of being a contractor. 

    A lot of things are on my mind – 
    I know what the position would entail – it would be very heavy on client interactions. Currently I have a narrow scope of what I can discuss with them. I’d most likely come back as a mid level associate rather than senior/managerial level which I am OK with. 

    Another reason I’m hesitating is because my daughter is a little bit delayed and we’re working through a possible autism diagnosis as well as weekly speech therapy (I’ll be posting more about this in a weekend thread) so the flexibility is a huge help. 

    On the other hand….money. I know Going back to work FT would result in more expenses BUT even the bare minimum salary they would pay would give me enough breathing room after all expenses. 

    And….this is also something Else I struggle with: It’s becoming extremely difficult for me to do something new. I have always struggled with adjusting to new jobs and the processes/people/etc that come with it and I feel like it’s just getting harder and harder for me. 

    I may very well be looking at things through rose colored glasses. I know I struggled with certain things (everything?) but I feel like I’ve changed over the last 2 years, I’m more focused etc so maybe things will be better? Idk. Of course this is all just speculating – I very well may not be hired. Advice/thoughts?

    1. Anonymous healthcare person*

      How old is your daughter? Are you parenting with a partner, do you have family/other help available? I have a child with mild autism (now a young adult), and I found the initial post-diagnosis time-frame extremely emotionally difficult for an extended period of time- for me, years not months to work through it. If you also find the diagnosis process difficult, that is likely to affect your ability to learn/function in a new job. Although… distraction can be your friend too?? You know yourself best, maybe the stimulation and excitement of a new job could be good, or maybe way too much. It sounds like it could be too much? Is it the heavy client interactions that make that worse for you?

      Also, for my family it got time-intensive for services/appointments. And schools are not very friendly to working parents, in terms of times when you meet with teachers etc. So, would the flexibility of the new job be enough for that? If you have support from the other parent and/or other family, maybe this is not much of an issue. And the extra, steady money (plus benefits?) would be very helpful.

      I guess I would say, explore the new job option and look at the pros and cons of doing what you are, vs. this new possibility, vs. job-searching for something that could work better for you.

      Oh, and, if possible, ask about treatment/support/services recommended for your daughter in various diagnostic scenarios. Eg if she is under 6 (I think it is age 6?), and if she does have autism, intensive behavioral interventions may be recommended that are expensive and may or may not be funded by government/healthcare where you are. Of course, also super-important in looking at job options.

      Good luck!

  23. Mimmy*

    Second question – this one is quicker.

    I applied for a job at my local state university. I’d applied for a similar job 2.5 years ago and got a phone screen. During that screen, I was asked what my salary expectations are. I’m anticipating that question again if I get called for this current opening.

    How do I answer about salary expectations when the salary range is listed in the job posting?

    1. Ope!*

      It IS listed? I’d say something like “I believe we’re on the same page, my expectations align with the listed range of $X-Z” or you could be more specific “I’d be looking for at least $Y” or “The listed range meets my general expectations, and I’d be prepared to discuss more specifics within it after reviewing benefits information.”

      1. LC*

        I’d be prepared to discuss more specifics within it after reviewing benefits information.

        This is an important addition to me. I like this wording, another option, especially for early in the process, would be something like “Of course I’ll have to keep in mind the full benefits package and the particulars about the role, but the listed range is in line with my general expectations.”

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      I assume you’re satisfied with the listed range. If so, say something like “I understand the range is $X to $Y, which works for me” or “I understand the range is $X to $Y, and given my experience, I’m looking for something in the upper half of that range.”

    3. Murphy*

      I’d say that you’re comfortable with the listed range. Though if you do have a specific number within that range, or a minimum that you’d accept, I’d say so.

    4. A Library Person*

      If it is a state university it is possible that the salaries are made public as a matter of course. Try searching “[University Name] salary”. If you do that with my institution you’ll get to a searchable website.

      1. A Library Person*

        To expand on that, this would help you see what people in the role are already making, and you might be able to offer something more specific from there.

  24. Potatoes gonna potate*

    I have a call later on today with the HR of the company I contract with. The nature of the call is to check in, are we open to opportunities etc. I worked with them for about five years before I was laid off in 2020 and came back last year as a contractor. I am considering saying I would be open to a FT opportunity. They are on a hybrid remote model, 2 days in and 3 days remote. My motivation for this is 90% financial and 10% social. 

    I do miss the regular light social interactions of being in an office. And I also miss having a steady paycheck. 

    On the other hand I have enjoyed the time flexibility of being a contractor. 

    A lot of things are on my mind – 
    I know what the position would entail – it would be very heavy on client interactions. Currently I have a narrow scope of what I can discuss with them. I’d most likely come back as a mid level associate rather than senior/managerial level which I am OK with. 

    Another reason I’m hesitating is because my daughter is a little bit delayed and we’re working through a possible diagnosis as well as weekly therapy (I’ll be posting more about this in a weekend thread) so the flexibility is a huge bonus.

    On the other hand….money. I know Going back to work FT would result in more expenses BUT even the bare minimum salary they would pay would give me enough breathing room after all expenses. 

    And….this is also something Else I struggle with: It’s becoming extremely difficult for me to do something new. I have always struggled with adjusting to new jobs and the processes/people/etc that come with it and I feel like it’s just getting harder and harder for me. 

    I may very well be looking at things through rose colored glasses. I know I struggled with certain things (everything?) but I feel like I’ve changed over the last 2 years, I’m more focused etc so maybe things will be better? Idk. Of course this is all just speculating – I very well may not be hired. Advice/thoughts?

    1. RagingADHD*

      The flexibility of contracting has the downside of lacking structure. I find that working with an external structure makes it easier for me to perform in some ways (like retaining info).

      Keeping all the balls in the air by myself takes a lot of bandwidth. Having the structure imposed frees up some of my mental resources.

      So the FT structure might make it a little easier for you to adjust to the job, because you aren’t simultaneously trying to juggle everything else.

    2. Anonymous For This*

      I say all this with the caveat that it worked for us and everyone’s experience will be different.

      While I understand the flexibility benefit with your daughter having some needs right now, I will say that our kiddo had some issues at birth and had weekly therapies -physical and occupational – and a bevy of specialists plus an additional hospital stay at 3 months. We both started looking for jobs where we’d have a bit more financial cushion since the unknown was such a big spectrum at the time. My spouse almost immediately switched jobs and I switched jobs once we were pretty close to our insurance calendar year being over.

      Also, our neurologist strongly suggested that we put ours in daycare because it would likely be beneficial.

  25. Coenobita*

    What are your favorite resources for U.S. federal resumes/job applications? I know the basics but I am having trouble making my specific situation show up well in a federal resume format. Is there a book or website out there that has good details but isn’t trying to sell you a service?

    I’m in the DC area and know approximately one gazillion federal employees (including my spouse!) but they all got their jobs through military/Peace Corps/fellowship/recent grad/etc. routes that don’t apply to me.

    1. TimeTravlR*

      Look up Kathryn Troutman at The Resume Place. Her Federal Resume Guidebook is fairly inexpensive and well worth the price. I have been through her resume writing class which isn’t necessary. She also offers writing service but I’d take a crack at it with the book first. Follow her guidance and you should do well!

      1. TimeTravlR*

        Sorry! I didn’t see you weren’t looking to buy a service so please let me be clear that you can buy her book without buying her services!

    2. Twisted Lion*

      I took a fed resume class and got a book from Kathyrn Troutman “Federal Resume Guidebook: Federal Resume Writing Featuring the Outline Format Federal Resume” and it was pretty spot on. Biggest thing is your resume needs to be long. Not one page (I mean I have seen them but… longer is better).

      1. Twisted Lion*

        Her book is on amazon or see if one of your friends has one or if the library does :)

    3. Coenobita*

      Thanks, TimeTravlR and Twisted Lion! I just put her book on hold at the library! This looks like exactly the kind of thing I need.

  26. Sandrilene fa Toren*

    I’m on my way out of my current higher education admin role while we plan for a move across the country back to our home state (we’re very excited!). Our exact location will depend on my partner’s job since his skills are more niche than mine, and I’m currently planning to stay home with our 1-year-old daughter until we can afford for me to work again. (Yes, I’m the mom, and yes, there are lots of problematic gender politics with this, but it’s what we’re stuck with right now.) HOWEVER, once I do reenter the workforce, I want to change industries because I am sick to death of academia.

    So my question is similar to the 2011 mom asking how to manage her impending resume gap: I know I should volunteer/do things with my time to keep my skills up, but if I’m trying to switch to, say, project management ideally in a sustainability setting, is it more important to practice the *skills* I want to use in my eventual job, or spend time in the *field* that I hope to eventually work in? (e.g., choosing between a project management-y role with the ASPCA vs. a more generic volunteer role with an environmental nonprofit). Thoughts? Advice?

    1. Ope!*

      Ooh this is tricky! And it’ll definitely depend on the hiring manager. I think I’d rather see someone who has hands-on skills with field awareness rather than someone with completely unrelated skills in the “right” field. But another manager might answer differently.

    2. OtterB*

      Do you have project management or related skills from your current role? If so, those don’t get stale as fast as tech skills, and I think you might be best volunteering in the field you want to move to. Besides field-specific knowledge, this will give you the chance to meet people in the field. And you might be able to do both by volunteering in New Field and then, after you’re more of a known quantity, volunteering to manage some small project or event for them.

      1. Sandrilene fa Toren*

        Ooh that’s a good point about meeting people in the desired field. I do have some soft skills from my current role that I think are transferable.

    4. 1qtkat*

      I think it best to get experience in the field you eventually want to get in. It helps build connections in that field and shows you’re interested in that new field.

    5. argle_bargled*

      I agree with others who have said that:
      – Your display name is great
      – You should focus on the field, not the type of work – new skills you gain just through volunteering may not carry a ton of weight, but demonstrating knowledge of and interest in the field, plus making connections, seems like a big advantage when you’re ready to return to work.

    6. mystiknitter*

      Consider volunteering with your eventual new city/town boards, for instance, does the [unknown] new city/town have a climate committee? recycling committee? environmental committee? all of which will have other volunteers who most likely have professional experience in your desired field + connections, plus you’ll have connections to the people working for the city/town in those offices. All the aforementioned committees in my city put on events, advise the local government on planning changes to existing systems/regulations and interact with one another and the greater community. They also get invited to events, meetings and conferences sponsored by local colleges/universities, other cities/towns, organizations. Meetings of the committees and boards happen in the evenings and, these days, by zoom. Great way to meet like-minded others in your new locale, as well. Your interest and professional skills will be so welcomed!

  27. Ope!*

    FYI to any other library professionals that haven’t heard through the grapevine, the blog Hiring Librarians is starting to publish interviews again! This blog was super helpful to me when I finished my MLIS and even after it went defunct I would look back through the question database as both an interviewee and a hiring manager. It’s a great resource.

  28. Meep*

    I want to give a follow-up to the insanity which was my first job ever. So I quit in February after filing a harassment and retaliation complaint against my former manager. This was after I had filed a sexual harassment complaint in November 2021 because she told me that my bronchitis and pneumonia were actually “ovulation” and “allergies” symptoms…

    Well, the sexual harassment complaint was half-heartedly dealt with because “women cannot sexually harass other women”. He asked if she did this to anyone else so I mentioned how she also was discriminating against a trans-woman and a non-binary coworker and trash-talking their gender identities to others (they were fired two weeks after I expressed this concern btw. On the week that this trans-woman had gender-confirming surgery…. so…). She decided in January to retaliate by telling a coworker I was trying to get him fired. My offense? Telling her in a PUBLIC online meeting, text message (with this coworker copied – she initiated the text message literal minutes after the meeting), and an email (with her boss cc’d) that he knew what he was doing after she PUBLICALLY trashed him as being incompetent. Yeah…

    Well, apparently gossip, spreading rumors, and terrorizing employees by threatening their jobs wasn’t harassment so I quit. This lit a fire until Bossman’s bum for the first time and he actually paid for a third-party investigator who specialized in employment discrimination law to investigate.

    WELL! She in her infinite cause of projection decided I was the one being investigated and not her. I expected her to say disparaging and libelous things about me, because well… if you can tell by now, she is a piece of sh*t. Instead, she also decided to trash talk literally everyone. And I mean everyone. Even the coworkers I had explicitly stated to both Bossman and Lawyer Lady that she treated well because they were men. Apparently, the company was only where it was because of her. She took credit for everyone’s work. Meanwhile, she was also being sickeningly sweet to her coworkers so they would put in a good word for her. I know this because they were texting me about how she was taking this investigation seriously to be on her best behavior.

    The result? “Toxic Coworker has exhibited behavior, not in line with her position.” She was demoted and is on her way out the door once he finds a replacement. I have a new job that pays more and is away from the crazy town, regardless.

    Bonus Karama is Sweet: So this lady tried to get me fired in 2020 for purchasing a house. That was her only basis for wanting me gone. She purchased a house last month so karma is sweet.

    1. Meep*

      Follow up on the house thing because that is its own telenovela episode: She found out I was purchasing a house and instantly started being nasty to me. She was verbally abusive, trashed talked me to everyone about how spoiled I was and how I didn’t deserve this house (it was how a lot of people found out I was looking), tried to sabotage my work, refused to let me present anything, and tried to get me fired the week I was supposed to sign. When the original house fell through she instantly started acting friendly towards me again. I didn’t tell her when I actually purchased a house as a result.

    2. allathian*

      I seem to remember something about the house buying stuff. I’m glad you don’t have to work for or with her anymore.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      Wow. Just wow. She sounds really bizarre! I’m so glad you’re out of there, and have a house. And that karma was pretty thorough, wasn’t it?

  29. EvaluationsAreArbitrary*

    A question from my annual review: “What could you have done better or differently in the past year?” Last year, I wrote about some improvements I could make or had recently made to managing my time when working on many different projects at once. Manager interpreted this as “You are bad at time management” and gave me a low rating in that category. I’m not actually bad at it, I just saw ways it could get better and did those. There’s definitely no evidence that my supposed poor time management ever negatively affected anyone or anything.
    It’s time to write my review again and now I’m worried that if I say I improved anything, Manager is going to say I’m bad at it. How do I answer without it resulting in a reduced rating?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      If your manager is going to interpret anything that can be improved in as you being bad at it, I wouldn’t list anything. Just say something like “I performed my role incredibly well in the last year and I look forward to continuing to be successful in the coming year.”

    2. irene adler*

      “Filled out my last annual review paperwork with completely positive statements.”

    3. Aggresuko*

      “I continue to get better at my position, improving my speed and accuracy” (or whatever it is you do).

    4. Ginger Pet Lady*

      The place where I work has ridiculous off the books “rules” for managers filling out reviews. They cannot give ratings above average for more than 2 areas, and they HAVE to mark an area as “needs improvement”
      I wonder if your boss is working under similar rules or has similar ideas about reviews? And your self evaluation just helped him decide where to place that mandatory “needs improvement”
      (The thinking/reasoning behind the rules is that you have to make darn sure employees know they could do better or else they don’t work hard. Not lost on me that raises are based on the reviews, too, so suppressing reviews = suppressing wages. Honestly it is really demotivating to know that no matter what I do I’ll never be more than average on my formal reviews, and so now I don’t really give a fig about my reviews. So that means reviews are pointless.)

      1. EvaluationsAreArbitrary*

        Yes, I’m pretty sure they are only allowed to give out a certain amount of high reviews, which results in manipulations like you describe. It’s nonsensical at best (employees have to answer a series of questions that have nothing to do with the ratings managers assign) and insulting at worst. I’d still prefer not to be told I suck at something that I demonstrably do not suck at.

    5. The teapots are on fire*

      “I was already (meeting metric) (managing this skill by –example–) but I was able to add further value by (new approach).

      1. EvaluationsAreArbitrary*

        LOL, as if we have metrics. That’s a good phrasing though, might be able to use that.

    6. Policy Wonk*

      Adapted to changing COVID restrictions while maintaining productivity. Or something similar. Blame COVID – if you can use a spe ific example, even better.

  30. RetailIsDetail*

    Hello everyone….our small retail store is looking to switch from a paper schedule for staff (!) to a scheduling app. We’re leaning towards Deputy (but are also considering WhenIWork and Homebase). It’s important for us to select an app that’s designed for shift work, that makes shift-swapping easy, and that facilitates clear communication with staff (ages 16-65+). Any feedback or recommendations are helpful! Thanks :)

    1. Retail Not Retail*

      I’m sure you know your current staff, but make sure it has a desktop option staff can access at work because some people don’t have smartphones.

      I had a job change to an app for clocking in/out from a central terminal clock and they still provided another option for those without smartphones (or who didn’t want to use it I guess?)

    2. LC*

      I used to work with Blue Yonder (formerly JDA). It was pretty good, definitely not perfect, but I think they were working on improving some specific things when I got out of that world about two years ago. It actually does 90% of the scheduling for you, then a human can just make tweaks, not sure if you’re looking for that or just a software solution for managers to enter schedules and employees to use.

      We had shift work, multiple departments, multiple locations. You could swap shifts, put shifts up for grabs, request PTO, set availability (both strict availability and preferred availability, and you could make it for specific time ranges which was great when students were involved), do fixed schedules, etc. Again, not perfect, but worth at least a look.

    3. DunderHead*

      I’ve only had experience with HotSchedules. I enjoyed it and I was a manager using it to schedule my 12-20 employees.

  31. TimeTravlR*

    Today is my last day… I am retiring! I have read AAM for so long that it will probably stay on my reading list each day. I have learned so much from Alison and from you, and I regularly refer people to this site.
    Thank you all for allowing me to be a part of the discussion.

      1. TimeTravlR*

        Thank you! Many years in the making, that’s for sure. I am hoping I don’t wake up on Monday thinking I’ve made a horrible mistake! LOL

        1. retired3*

          Wake up Monday morning, look at the clock, stay in bed and pet your cat, read, have coffee, get extra sleep. Rinse, repeat.

      2. Fran Fine*

        Same. I’ve got 30 something more years left, and I just…can’t, lol.

        Congrats, OP!

    10. Clisby*

      Congratulations! I remember going to bed on my last day and thinking, “They cannot wake me up in the middle of the night any more,” and falling into a dead sleep. (It wasn’t that I was called in the middle of the night often; it was just that it was possible on any night.)

  32. Melanie Cavill*

    Anyone have experience balancing full time work and full time school? I’d love any tips. Or horror stories. Those are fun too.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I did it for almost ten years, through an associate’s, two bachelor degrees and two masters degrees. Embrace your calendar.

      People (including people here, in my experience) will tell you that it can’t be done without doing something poorly, full stop. Whether it can be done well depends entirely on you, on your job, and on your program. It’s not easy, but whether it’s possible is so situational – think very carefully and realistically about what you’re signing yourself up for.

      1. Melanie Cavill*

        Thank you for answering! That’s super impressive. If you don’t mind my asking, did you ever get to the point where you felt like some aspect of your life was being done poorly?

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          So, this is where “know thyself” comes in :) I did not ever get to that point myself, but (a) I am an extreme introvert and wasn’t trying to fit in any significant level of social life around any of my other goings-on, and (b) my particular areas of brain goofiness – hypomania, low need for sleep, speed-reading-with-high-retention, and a chronic inability to sit around and not be doing stuff, among other things – contributed to my ability to get shit done, heh. (I said that I was a full time student while working full-time for ten years — I am STILL a half-time student three years later, taking classes from the local CC just for funsies now, because it’s a reliable and useful way to keep my brain occupied with something at a level of structure and commitment that works for me. I am currently taking by-god English Comp 101. :P )

          My programs were also (I think) fairly standard in terms of their expectations — all my degrees are adjacent to healthcare administration, so I didn’t have much to worry about in terms of lab courses or similar, everything I was doing outside of scheduled class meetings was largely self-schedule-able as long as I was working to deadlines. I also had the ability to choose comprehensive testing/paper-writing options for my capstone courses rather than needing to make time for internships since I was already working in the field at an advanced level. (In fact, I almost had to supervise one of my classmates doing an externship in my department at work, until I pointed out that such a thing could be a little bit awkward for both of us and they assigned her to a different team.)

          But if I was someone who had a lot of family or social obligations that were important to maintain, or hobbies that made high demands on my time, or an opposition to eating a lot of takeout and turkey sandwiches, or an insistence on a perfectly clean house all the time, it would’ve been a very different story.

    2. Mid*

      This might sound weird, but as someone who balanced full time work and school, I wouldn’t recommend it if you live alone. It’s very very hard to keep up with housework and cooking when you’re booked for 80+ hours a week.

      Horror story: I was scheduled for too many hours but needed the money so I didn’t try to change my shifts, and ended up not sleeping for 3 days and hallucinated ants crawling all over me and had to leave work early.

    3. irene adler*

      I did work and school both full time.
      I was able to strategically schedule in vacation days to give me time to keep current with the homework. Work was very flexible with this.
      I also put off major things, like major house cleaning, getting the car maintenanced or all day social events, to semester breaks.
      Do not allow yourself to fall behind in the studies. That snowballs quickly and can mean the difference between completing the class and dropping it. Plan, plan, plan!

    4. Coenobita*

      I did this for my master’s degree and, honestly, it was fine! I mean, I was busy, but no more busy than I’ve been with other things in other seasons of my life.

      My top piece of advice is to choose your program carefully and be clear with yourself what you want to get out of it. I basically just needed the piece of paper that said “master’s degree” to advance in my field, and since I was planning to stay at my same employer for a while afterwards I didn’t really care about networking, going to seminars, the academic reputation of the program (above a certain level), or really doing anything above and beyond what what was necessary to get the grades I wanted. So I chose a conveniently located school that offered evening classes and provided good scholarships and was like medium-rigorous (a big difference from the super-competitive school where I went to undergrad). Your situation might be different! But like Red Reader says, definitely think carefully and realistically about what you want and how you want to do it.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Yes, this too — I wanted to get my masters degrees from a school that was reasonably well regarded and accredited and all that jazz, but I didn’t need to fight for the best MBA program in the world, the state university in the next town over was going to do a bang-up job of getting me what I needed out of a graduate degree with a reasonable amount of work on my part.

    5. Gan Ainm*

      I did it for two years, I did a full time mba and a full time professional job. Work was supportive and let me cut back in my travel (previously was traveling around 70%, cut back to 40% I’d say) and let me flex my schedule for some of my classes. It was hectic, I had almost no downtime for two years, had to precisely time everything, and just go from one activity or project / task to the next without stopping, saw my family (who live close by and I’d normally see at least once a month) only on major holidays, but it was a great period in my life too because I love being very busy and enjoyed my program. I ended up hiring a house cleaner for a few months, I had roommates and we alternated cleaning assignments and on my turn I was just too swamped, it was the best money I ever spent. You need to be organized and you have to want the degree to make the effort worth it, but it’s totally doable.

    6. feeling like Dori*

      I did it for my bachelors (which I did remotely). I had to stay very organized. As soon as the syllabus was released I would add every due date for my classes to a master excel sheet and then sort by the due date so I could track assignments. I then made that excel sheet my desktop background. It was the only way I made it through. I could prioritize my week, spend weekends on assignments, and evenings were for studying. I would take time off for finals and occasionally take a day off if I had a huge assignment due.

      I’m about to start the process again for my masters but now I’m working longer weeks and have a child so I’ll be taking longer to complete this degree. I have 4 weeks of pto a year so I plan to use it to complete this degree.

    7. Hotdog not dog*

      Been there, sort of…full time job, part time job, and part-time school. My advice is to prioritize by what the long term picture should be; housework wouldn’t be important in 5 years, so I generally half-assed it at best. Homework was crucial, so it got top priority. Full time office job provided tuition assistance, so even though it was not my career path I made sure to put in solid, if not stellar, work. The part time job covered the gap between expenses and income, but could be (and occasionally was) replaced as needed. Hobbies suffered for a few years, as did my social life, but I always knew that would be temporary.
      That was in my 20s. Now in my 50s, it would be a lot more challenging.
      Slightly related, I’ve always enjoyed the story on this site about the person whose boss wouldn’t give them time off for their graduation. That happens more often than you’d think…I quit a part time waitress job to attend my graduation, got a part time retail job to replace it a day later!

    8. Chilipepper Attitude*

      Do the homework as far ahead of time as you can. I mean, plan to finish things very early so that you have a cushion. You can quickly see the afternoon off the day before a big assignment is due that you budgeted for finishing it, evaporate when a major appliance breaks or a kid gets sick or a deadline at work changes.

      Good luck and have fun!

    9. Washi*

      I don’t know what kind of school you are going back for, but there is so much variation in master’s programs! My master’s required 16 classes and 2 different multiple-day-per-week internships, neither of which could just be your regular job. My husband’s required 10 classes, no internships, and the homework was a type of task he tends to be faster than average at. He worked full time and while it wasn’t fun, it was manageable because work was flexible with his hours and he was able to use some work stuff for class projects. There was no way I was going to work full time during my program and my few classmates who tried quickly had to cut back on their work hours because it was just way too much. I got a part time job where I could do homework at work (apartment concierge) which paid terribly but kept money coming in and I wasn’t too overwhelmed.

    10. Mental Lentil*

      Sleep
      Good grades
      Social life

      Pick two.

      Also, get a really good planner and keep it by your side at all times. You don’t have the time to be un-organized.

    11. Donkey Hotey*

      I did that 20 years ago and it worked for a year (and by worked I mean I barely passed my classes and had zero free time.) Second year, I dropped to 80% FTE and 75% school. Still sucked but my GPA went up.

    12. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

      Through my AA I worked full time retail, and went to school full time, and worked a 12/hr a week work study job. It was fine and I never felt over-worked!
      However, when I transferred to finish my bachelor’s degree, the full time program absolutely demanded 40 hours a week of my time – sometimes a little more. I am sure I could have phoned it in and settled on lower grades, but I wanted to get everything I could out of my college experience. I had to go down to 8hrs a week at my retail job, and 12hrs a week at my work study job. Doing laundry and feeding myself were very, very difficult, to say nothing of, like, socializing. One quarter, I took 18 credits and worked 22+ hrs a week and I truly thought I was going to fall apart like a pile of gravel at any given moment.
      This is to say: it depends on your program and how easy the material comes to you. The weeks where I was doing studio art (my strength) were much easier to manage than the weeks I was studying, for example, Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of habitus (fascinating, and exhausting to read).
      Good luck!

    13. Former Retail Manager*

      Accept that you will miss out on things…..things that may be important to you and other people. And be realistic about how much you can accomplish in a certain period of time, and don’t procrastinate on assignments (did that wayyyyy too many times.) I’d also “outsource” as much as you can afford to…perhaps house cleaning, weekend child care so you have a day to yourself to relax, study, etc., simplify cooking as much as you can, etc and don’t be afraid to ask for help.

      If you have kids……
      I could not have done it without the support of my family who helped with my daughter A LOT. I literally did not have time to help with homework every day, or do bath time every day, or even really hang out with her on certain days. I did it when I could, which wasn’t very often. The reality is that I was gone, either at work or at school, A LOT and other people stepped into parent roles. I don’t regret it because, in my situation, failure was not an option, and I knew that other people would eventually be relying on me financially and I had to make it happen in a certain time frame, so if that meant I missed some childhood stuff, and she made those memories with other people, so be it. Everyone can’t handle this emotionally….it really tears them up, so be honest with yourself about how much you can be away from your kids / less involved, and adjust your schedule accordingly. All kids are different, but I can say that I don’t think this negatively impacted my relationship with my daughter. She is now a young adult and grateful for the financial assistance that I have provided her (and continue to provide her), which wouldn’t be possible without my education. It was also an opportunity for her to form strong bonds with other family members that likely wouldn’t have existed under “normal” circumstances.

    14. jadetaia*

      Ooooh, I did that for a year and a half when I was in my mid-twenties. I’m glad I got it over with then!

      I was working full time as a low level accounting clerk in cash receipts, and I enrolled in online college courses to get a second bachelor’s in Accounting. (My original college degree is in English, which doesn’t really check the boxes for moving up in an accounting career.)

      Local community colleges were semester-based, so an associates degree in accounting would have taken about 9 years for me to complete, and local universities weren’t offering second bachelors at the time (and I was not prepared to take on a Masters program back then), so I did go with a for-profit online university to basically check the boxes. It ended up being 5-week long courses, and I took two courses each 5 weeks in order to complete my degree in the shortest amount of time (and the maximum amount I could afford in tuition on my modest income).

      Did I mention that I also did the books for my dad’s small business?

      So … it was a lot. There were many times I felt overwhelmed. I had no social life except saying hi occasionally to my roommate. But at least I knew the number of courses I needed to take and how long it would take to complete them.

      The moment it turned was when I was complaining how I felt overwhelmed to my mom. And she (typical Asian mom who always told me to maintain straight As in school) said, “You just need to pass the classes right? You don’t have to get an A in everything.” I was dumbfounded. And I realized I didn’t need to be the best at everything. I just needed to do enough to pass. Which is what I did. Huge stress dissipated, and I made it through.

      Good luck to you! Hope you don’t stress yourself out too much, and try to take breaks when you can! Do well — but don’t stress about being perfect!!

      1. jadetaia*

        Adding a note: it’s all about prioritizing. What makes the most sense for you, what is the minimum you need to do to accomplish what you need for your goals that week, that month, that year, and what can you get away with doing less well or not doing if it is unimportant. If you are able to pick out what is important and make a plan, you’ll be fine!

      2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Yes! I don’t think I had a single class where I didn’t get to the point where I was hauling out Excel going “What is it gonna take to make a B.” (And once I did the math it was never as dire as I thought it would be :) )

        1. CatMintCat*

          I could never bring myself to do this. Imposter syndrome or something. I knew in my head that “Ps get degrees” (P or Pass is the lowest passing grade in my university’s system) but I could never convince myself to aim for a P, because what if I missed?
          All in my head, for sure.

    15. Clisby*

      Not a masters, but after working for 11 years in journalism I went back to school for a BS in computer science. I worked nights as a newspaper copy editor, and went to school in the day. It helped that in my newspaper job I always had to work at least one weekend day, which meant I was guaranteed at least one whole weekday/weeknight where I could focus 100% on school. It also helped that I was on my own – no spouse or children. I probably could have done it with a low-maintenance spouse who needed practically no attention, but with children it would have been a no-go. I got the degree, and went on to work 27 years in IT until I retired.

  33. emmalite*

    What do you do when HR gives you the wrong documents for a hiring process and disappears?

    I have to take a ‘competency assessment’ as part of a hiring process. It’s more of a formality — I’m being transitioned from contract to full time, and they already know what my skills are better than a test will tell them. Still, government, paperwork, etc.

    BUT. they use a third party tester, and I’m about 90% sure I have a wrong test. I’m being asked to solve questions way above my paygrade, and in a slightly different area — think instead of summarizing some documents to brief a senior on llama wrangling (normal for my level, I’ve done these tests before), I’m being asked to create a large scale business plan for designing chocolate teapots. It’s not related to my experience, it’s not what I’m being hired to do, and I’m honestly not sure I can pass it.

    I’ve tried to get a hold of HR, they’re not responding, and the test is due tomorrow. I’m going to do my best, but I honestly don’t know what happens if i fail the test. I’m at a loss. Any advice would be appreciated!

    1. Just Your Everyday Crone*

      As a manager, I want the team to tell me this stuff so I can jump in. The title gets more attention sometimes. If you think it’s workable, ask your manager.

      1. emmalite*

        Erg, you’re definitely right. I admit I feel incredible awkward emailing my future manager (on a Friday afternoon no less) to say “hey, that test you told someone to give me seems WAY too hard”. But there’s no good way around it. Thank you for the needed push!

    2. AE*

      Ugh, this sucks, but if their hiring setup is that disorganized/negligent, then I would take it as a red flag about the organization. In case it was a one-off error and not necessarily symptomatic of larger problems, at least they have it in writing that you possibly had the wrong test before you sent it back.

      1. emmalite*

        The wild part is that hr at this organization is usually regarded a fantastic…..except for the recruitment process itself. You’re definitely right about having it in writing!

    3. Miel*

      I’d recommend continuing to make noise. Reach out to your manager, HR again, and anyone else who has been involved in the hiring process.

      Hopefully someone will respond – but worst case, they’ll at least know what’s going on.

  34. Audrey Puffins*

    I am seriously considering applying to work at the Port Lockroy post office in Antarctica for the October-March season. What sort of things should I consider for my application that might not come intuitively to mind, do you reckon?

    1. Albeira Dawn*

      What’s your experience with wilderness survival? Have you ever been in a very isolated situation for a long period of time, alone or with a small group? In your work experience, have you ever taken on a project with little to no external support and had to problem-solve a wide variety of issues, even those outside your expertise? How do you handle boredom? How do you handle conflicts with coworkers? Do you have cross-training in any other skills, like mechanic-ery, or database management, or procurement? What kind of leadship structures have you worked in – rigid, flexible, centralized, decentralized?

      1. HalloQueen*

        I was going to reply to say how good these questions were, and then I saw “mechanic-ery” and died laughing at what a perfect all-encompassing term that was! I totally want to find a way to use that in daily conversation now…

    2. HHD*

      Having known folks who’ve done it and/or worked for Scott Polar and done extended stints down that way (the perks of Cambridge life)
      – analogue hobbies, have some
      – how do you do with problem solving? How about when there isn’t a support desk just along the hall?
      – how do you get on with people who are very different to you? How do you do that when you can’t just get away at the end of the day?

    3. AcademiaNut*

      I know a few people who have wintered over in Antarctica, and a few things to think of.

      Health – if something goes wrong, you’re going to be limited to the resources available there. They do a very thorough checkup (down to dental) before hand, but you need to be in solid, stable health. You also need to be okay with things like limited bathing opportunities (a friend at a research station got 2 5 minute showers a week).

      Social skills are very, very important, but in a weird way. You need to be able to go long stretches without a lot of variety of social activity (so the ability to be socially self-sufficent and amuse yourself), but at the same time you need to be able to handle close quarters with a small number of people without being too annoying or too annoyed. It’s a weird combination of easy going, easy to get along, with and naturally independent and solitary.

      Oh, and for women, if you’re not interested in hooking up with someone for the winter, invent a boyfriend (or girlfriend) back home to deflect pressure.

  35. WineNot*

    After 3 years with my company and a small promotion (mainly in title) every year, I am being promoted to manage my department and the four people in it. I am so excited about the opportunity, though a little anxious as I have never managed people before. I know they still haven’t told my direct boss, who currently manages our department, or anyone on the team. I am a bit worried about how they are all going to take it. I have two questions…

    1. Does anyone have any advice for the change in relationship from your experience being promoted and having to manage the people you used to be on the same level as, or from being the person whose coworker became their boss? Having buy-in from the whole team is so important, I want to be sure all communication about the change is done right, etc.

    2. Any tips for a first-time manager?

    Thank you!

    1. ferrina*

      Prepare for some distance. They will likely pull away from you- this is normal and healthy. You are their boss now, and they will need that distance to be able to receive you like a boss.

      Know their strengths and use their strengths. Consult with them on their matter of expertise (but be clear when they aren’t able to make the decision- I’ve found things like “Hey, there’s a situation coming up about a potential llama acquisition. There’s obviously a lot of factors, but I know you’re an expert in llama dentistry and would love to get your perspective on that.” then keep the questions specifically dentistry related and don’t discuss items beyond that)

      Be confident and humble. Yes, those two things are complementary. “Let’s try doing it this way, and we’ll check in in a week to see how it’s working” is an example. You’re leading and making decisions to keep things moving, but also actively following up to learn about the impact of your decision making so you can continue to improve.

      Honestly, I’m a little concerned about your organization based on what you’ve shared here. It’s very odd that they haven’t told your direct boss that you will be a manager. Generally your boss would be involved in that conversation and be part of that decision. Make sure you have someone outside the company that can keep you grounded.
      Good luck!

      1. WineNot*

        Hi. Thanks for your points. You mentioned you were concerned about my organization based on the fact that my direct boss hasn’t been in the loop….it definitely worries be a little bit. We are a small-ish company (around 100 people) and this plan has been hatched by the COO and President. When the promotion was originally brought up by the COO, he said he was going to speak with my boss that week. He still hasn’t, which is really frustrating because I feel like I am lying to him every time we talk about the future of my accounts and the function of our team, etc. I actually just spoke to the President in the middle of writing this comment and mentioned I was anxious for them to tell my current boss and she helped to ease some of my nerves in that regard, so that was good! I know I have a great support system of great leaders and managers, so I think it will be a great move. Just an interesting transition in relationships, most of all.

        Thanks!

    2. cactus lady*

      I found the books (both older now) “The Leadership Pipeline” and “Getting to Yes” helpful when I first started managing people.

    3. TheDisenchantedForest*

      Boundaries are important. I say this as the employee who watched as the boss rewarded the people she was friends with. She continued to drive to/from work, eat lunch with, and spend weekends with the same people who were now her direct reports. And all of those people got promotions, bonuses, management opportunities, big projects, and exposure to senior managers – even if they weren’t performing as good as others on the team. As a result, many others on the team became resentful and demoralized, and left.

      A good book to read for managers of all experience levels is: Multipliers: How the best leaders make everyone smarter, by Liz Wiseman

    4. Fran Fine*

      Congrats on your promotion! I’ll be following this thread closely since I’m in a similar situation (though my boss is very aware of my promotion and actually went to bat for it).

    5. allathian*

      Congrats on your promotion!

      One of my coworkers was promoted to our manager when the previous manager wanted to get out of management and got a job as a subject matter expert elsewhere. Understandably she didn’t want to be managed by a former report, even if leaving management was her idea. This was my former coworker’s first management job, and she got hired as an interim manager. I was a bit worried about how things would go, because as a peer she was close friends with some of her coworkers. We got along, mostly, even if she could be a bit abrasive about when she wanted to go to lunch with “just her friends” rather than the whole team. But she was extremely professional about it, and when she was our manager, she never played favorites. A former coworker switched jobs to another department, at least partly because she wanted to keep their friendship on a level that wouldn’t have been possible between a manager and a report. She was hired as an interim manager, and ultimately she wasn’t hired on permanently when the interim period ended. I’m happy with my current manager, although I was sad that the interim manager wasn’t hired on permanently, because she did a great job. She’s on a temporary contact elsewhere working as an SME, but she was really keen to work in management, so I’m not sure if she’ll return to us or look elsewhere.

    6. allathian*

      Congrats on your promotion!

      One of my coworkers was promoted to our manager when the previous manager wanted to get out of management and got a job as a subject matter expert elsewhere. Understandably she didn’t want to be managed by a former report, even if leaving management was her idea. This was my former coworker’s first management job, and she got hired as an interim manager. I was a bit worried about how things would go, because as a peer she was close friends with some of her coworkers. We got along, mostly, even if she could be a bit abrasive about when she wanted to go to lunch with “just her friends” rather than the whole team. But she was extremely professional about it, and when she was our manager, she never played favorites. A former coworker switched jobs to another department, at least partly because she wanted to keep their friendship on a level that wouldn’t have been possible between a manager and a report. She was hired as an interim manager, and ultimately she wasn’t hired on permanently when the interim period ended. I’m happy with my current manager, although I was sad that the interim manager wasn’t hired on permanently, because she did a great job. She’s on a temporary contact elsewhere working as an SME, but she was really keen to work in management, so I’m not sure if she’ll return to us or look elsewhere.

  36. Can't think of a funny name*

    I started looking for a new job b/c I was disappointed in the raises this year. I found a job paying well and interviewed and am down to the last interview. I told my current boss that I was looking b/c I have seen him give people counteroffers before and there was no negative impact after the fact so I figured I’d see what he could do. After some back and forth, he was able to offer me an amount around the low end of the range of this new job (so not really a “counteroffer” since it was before I even got an offer, lol, but same concept). At this point, I would probably only take the new job if they offered over the high end of their range…SO, getting to my question…Should I tell the 3rd party recruiter this to see if he thinks I should withdrawal, wants to put out a feeler to them on a higher offer, or just do the interview and wait to see if I even get an offer and then go from there? I think I am the only person at this stage of the interview process.

    1. Mid*

      Wait and see what they offer, and if you like the company but their salary is too low, ask for a higher salary and see what happens.

        1. Squeakad*

          I am really old-school and still keep the advice if never take a counter offer. Even if it works out in the short-term, it is the case that many companies it tells the team that you really can’t be trusted.

  37. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

    TL;DR: Can someone be disciplined or fired because their spouse was an ass (no alcohol or violence, just rudeness), off the clock and at the employee’s house? Specifically, at a dinner party at the employee’s house, with him and his wife, two co-workers and the boss and their plus-ones, and the 15 y/o daughter of one of the co-workers. If the hostess is deliberately unwelcoming and/or hostile to the 15 y/o, what are the possible consequences for her husband?

    (I swear the following is true; people really did post these things.) I used to belong to a forum for people who were childfree. I left because of this and because the general attitude had become toxic. A regular who I’ll call Patty posted in a snit about the aforementioned dinner party, which hadn’t happened yet. One couple wanted to bring their daughter (Priscilla), for whatever reason; we never did find out. (In the end, Priscilla didn’t go; she slept over a friend’s house, the party went off just fine, amen and hallelujah.) In fairness, Patty did have only eight chairs, place settings and entrees, but I’m fairly certain that “My [adult] brother is visiting from out of town; can he tag along?” would not have inspired the same outrage. I think Patty was mostly aggravated with Chuck, her husband, for volun-telling her to reenact a Father Knows Best episode. “Honey, I really need to impress the boss, and don’t screw this up or you’ll lose me the Henderson account!” She was already not jazzed about hosting eight people, with the good china and all, and when she heard about the potential teenage guest, her head exploded.

    Bear in mind, Patty didn’t know Priscilla. At all. Nothing good or bad, not even her name or age until she asked. Still, Patty was damned if this…thing…would cross her threshold, and posted, all caps, “I refuse to be held hostage by a spoiled brat!!!” But she wasn’t close to being the nastiest person in the thread, which was swarmed by people offering tips on how to be the world’s worst hostess. Such gems as:

    “Give her a real ‘mean nanny’ look right when she comes in the door, so she’ll know she can’t mess with you.”

    “If they turn up with the sprog, act like you were never told she would be there, then make a big show of struggling to cope with this unexpected problem.” [And I’m sure the other guests would feel totally at ease.]

    “Do not let her join the conversation. If she opens her mouth other than to put food in it, banish her to the worst room in the house, with no TV or other entertainment. You have every right to scold and stand your ground.” [Scold, as in raise her voice? Make a scene in front of her husband’s colleagues?]

    “Squeeze in a folding chair for the brat between where its parents will sit, so hopefully it will behave. [Fifteen-year-old girl, people!] Give it a hot dog or pizza-for-one on a paper plate, a plastic cup of water and nothing else.”

    That’s far from all, but you get the idea. The only dissenters (there were a few sensible, non-aggressive suggestions) were me and two others. “If you guys are joking, it’s not funny. If you’re serious, WTF? Priscilla is a person with feelings.” One person replied, “I am serious. I’m sorry if her feelings get hurt, but that’s for her parents to worry about. Catering to the teen [pizza and pop in the den is catering to her?] will send the message to the parents that their behavior is acceptable. Hopefully when the kid grows up, she’ll realize she needs to be better than them.”

    Me: “Good of you to have such concern for the young lady’s long-term social development. In the short term, Chuck has to work with Priscilla’s parent. And another co-worker and Chuck’s boss are going to see this. I don’t think they’re going to applaud Patty for “standing her ground”. In an at-will state, Chuck’s boss will have “every right” to terminate him first thing Monday. Or even on the spot.”

    But would he? What would be the consequences if this really had happened, to any degree? I don’t think anyone in their right mind would go ahead with the hot dog/folding chair stunt, but this blog gives plenty of examples of people who are not in their right minds! So if that did happen, Priscilla’s parents would probably say “Fine, we’ll go somewhere else,” and likely the other guests would follow. But how far can someone go in rudeness (the don’t-mess-with-me look at the door, for instance) and still have it handwaved? And to what extent is an employee responsible for their spouse’s actions? (I don’t relish the idea of someone being fired/disciplined because he “can’t control his wife”. Or him apologizing for her in terms of “women, amirite?”.)
    *******************
    One thing I can’t believe I didn’t notice at the time. The same poster who said “You have every right to scold and stand your ground,” when she was called on it, doubled down with “She has every right to say something to defend herself and her home.” Take out “scold” and “say something,” and you’ve got phrases I’ve only otherwise heard in the context of gun ownership. People say that about someone entering their house with criminal intent. They were talking about a teenage girl as if she was a criminal.

    And another thing I can’t believe never came up. Better hope that neither Priscilla nor either of her parents is a visible minority. And that she wasn’t adopted by her two moms or two dads. There’s quite a few ways for even a basic cold-shouldering to be taken more personally and as a full aggression, not a micro-aggression. That no one thought of that confirms that I didn’t get out of that echo chamber soon enough.

    1. Mid*

      In an At-will state, absolutely they could be fired for that. But they could be fired because the boss didn’t like their new car, the boss didn’t like how they made coffee, or anything else.

    2. ferrina*

      Could be fired, but likely not. It’s more likely the reprecussions would be subtle- Patty would not be welcome at social events, and her husband might be tarred with the same brush. He could find himself left out of informal get togethers (if we made if formal we’d have to invite Patty. Ugh.). He wouldn’t get the same informal connections.

      See also: the AAM about the husband who took pictures of the interviewer that his wife was meeting for a job interview (there’s a great series of updates- the lapse in judgement about her husband raised flags in other areas, and she eventually lost out on the job offer)

      If it makes you feel better, picture Priscilla in 20 years as the CEO of a start-up that has changed the world, and Patty trying to make nice with her.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        “Patty would not be welcome at social events…if we made if formal we’d have to invite Patty. Ugh.”

        That might not even bother some people. One of the harpies posted, “Hey, if the kid acts up, she’ll be doing Patty a favor. That’ll be her get-out-of-hostessing-free card from then on. Let her hubby’s cheap-ass boss make a reservation at Olive Garden!” But it sure would bother Chuck. Which no one in the thread thought about. And I love your scenario of Patty groveling to CEO Priscilla!

      2. Abyssal*

        This.

        It would take a lot of misbehavior on Patty’s part to get her husband outright fired, but significantly less to make her husband persona non grata at the office and painfully impact his career. This sort of event is pretty old-fashioned and there is a lot to be said about how this reflects patriarchal expectations re: men’s and women’s roles in the office, and there’s a separate discussion to be had about that, but taking as granted that the event is happening and that those expectations are in play, deliberately poor behavior as a hostess would be a big, huge, major deal. The kind of place that’s old-fashioned enough to have this kind of event is old-fashioned enough that this would kill his chances of getting promoted.

    3. RagingADHD*

      The answer to an entirely hypothetical situation that never happened in real life is that anything is theoretically possible in an infinite universe.

      Sure, if the hostess were horrid to a coworker’s family, her husband could get fired. The boss could storm out. A fistfight could ensue. A lawsuit could be filed. Patty could stalk the coworker and threaten violence or vice versa.

      The only determining factor is how wierd and dramatic you want the fanfiction to be.

      In real life, the most likely thing to happen is what actually happened: the husband managed to convey, either directly or indirectly, that it would be difficult to host 9 people with 8 chairs, and the coworkers sensibly chose an alternate activity for their teen.

      The second most likely outcome would be that the husband’s coworkers pity him for being married to a nasty spiteful person, or a raving loon. And that terrible impression casts a subtle but lasting pall over his career prospects by calling his judgment into question, the same way it would if the hostess picked a fight with the guests about any other topic, got plastered, showed up in her underwear, or behaved in any other bizarre and inappropriate way.

      Because nobody should be hosting dinner parties with a spouse who can’t pull themselves together and act civil for a couple of hours. They should take the team to a restaurant and leave the problematic spouse out of it.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        “The answer to an entirely hypothetical situation that never happened in real life is that anything is theoretically possible in an infinite universe.”
        [Apu]He has got me there![/Apu]

        “The second most likely outcome would be that the husband’s coworkers pity him for being married to a nasty spiteful person, or a raving loon.”

        Which is what I was thinking, but I didn’t want to answer my own question. It may even be that Patty didn’t like her husband working for this company, full stop, and this was her passive-aggressive attempt to get him out.

    4. KoiFeeder*

      Frankly, as the kid who had to tag along to informal get-togethers with my dad’s coworkers (though never at 15- I was allowed to stay home and read by that age), I didn’t want to be there either! Being banished to the laundry room with my hot dog and water would not have been the punishment these people think it would be (although I would’ve been starving and thirsty by the end of things). The real question is why they “have to” bring along a fifteen year old in the first place- surely she’s old enough to stay home without burning down the kitchen?

      Ferrina’s probably right on the money with regards to repercussions at work. I would be shocked if Chuck’s boss fired him on the spot. It’s legal and could happen, but probably not. The parent presumably wouldn’t want to socialize with someone who’d been that rude to their daughter, and depending on how rude Patty was and whether or not Chuck intervened, the other coworkers might also be less than impressed with him and unwilling to socialize with Patty. Frankly, I’m less than impressed by Chuck now for springing a surprise eight-person party on his wife, but that’s socially acceptable.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        “The real question is why they “have to” bring along a fifteen year old in the first place- surely she’s old enough to stay home without burning down the kitchen?”

        I know, right? We never got an answer, not even a vague one. Probably it’s not that she was such a hellion that she couldn’t be trusted on her own, because that’s likely to be known around the office, enabling Chuck to say, “Are you serious? The same daughter who got into the liquor cabinet at your party and then flashed the guests?” Likewise, if she was exceptionally mature and intelligent and her presence would be an asset to a formal dinner, or if she had some kind of special need that required constant care/supervision, that would be known around the office. Still, asking to bring her (as opposed to showing up with her unannounced) is not So. Unforgivably. Rude. that basic civility is off the table. One of Miss Manners’ rock-bottom rules is “One does not respond to rudeness with more rudeness.”

        “Frankly, I’m less than impressed by Chuck now for springing a surprise eight-person party on his wife, but that’s socially acceptable.”

        It wasn’t a surprise that he sprung on her, though; she had three weeks’ notice. Which was three weeks of building resentment (I don’t recall at what point she was told about Priscilla). They had several yelling arguments, not just about the guest list, but about other details, and the fact of the dinner itself. As worked up as she was, I have to think that some negativity must have shown through at the event, even without the ninth guest as a handy target.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          Yeah, it’s not something you can really ask if you don’t know the reason already. I’m glad Priscilla got to go to her sleepover instead, I’m sure everyone involved was much happier with that outcome!

          On three weeks notice, I suspect that the iranian yogurt dinner party was not the actual issue here. I empathize with not wanting to host and cook for an eight-person dinner party, and one hopes that Chuck pulled his weight on the cooking and cleaning and making scintillating conversation, but it seems like the dinner party was the excuse rather than the issue.

          1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

            Okay, can someone direct me to the origin of the Iranian yogurt meme? I did a search, but I only get references, not the source.

            1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

              I mean, I get what it means; I just want to know what inspired it.

              1. Machine Ghost*

                I have never seen this meme before, but the first thing that comes up for me on Google is a 3-year-old reddit post: “AITA for Throwing Away my Boyfriend’s Potentially Illegal Yogurt Collection?” from someone who threw away her boyfriend’s rotting yogurt collection.

                It contains this quote:
                [..] I know that we have trade sanctions against Iran and Cuba, so I don’t know if it was even legal for him to have them? I asked where he got his Iranian yogurt, but he kept insisting “the Iranian Yogurt is not the issue here” and that the real issue was me throwing out his precious yogurts without his permission.”

                1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

                  Ahhhhhhh. I see, thank you. Yes, the issue seems to have been the BF’s hoarding tendency and lack of taste buds!

        2. Observer*

          “Frankly, I’m less than impressed by Chuck now for springing a surprise eight-person party on his wife, but that’s socially acceptable.”

          It wasn’t a surprise that he sprung on her, though; she had three weeks’ notice.

          I’m still unimpressed. The problem is not the “surprise”. It’s that he voluntold her. Sorry, that’s just out of line.

      2. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        “Being banished to the laundry room with my hot dog and water would not have been the punishment these people think it would be…”

        My witchy aunt thought that by specifically excluding me from her witchy daughter’s wedding, she was implicitly telling my parents, and me, a thing or two about a thing or two. In fact, it saved me from having to refuse to go, and gave my mom an excuse to decline that dubious honor.

      3. Observer*

        Frankly, I’m less than impressed by Chuck now for springing a surprise eight-person party on his wife,

        I totally agree. But that would make the repercussion to Chuck’s career worse.

    5. Jora Malli*

      I think it’s not likely the husband would have been fired (remember the letter about the guy who attended a coworker’s wedding and got drunk and punched the groom/his coworker? Even that guy didn’t get fired), but there will probably be social consequences in the workplace. The husband may not be included in as much informal networking as he used to, people may start gravitating toward other coworkers for help and collaboration, that kind of thing.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        My DH, reading over my shoulder, says “I would not want that guy managing other people, or working with clients. At least, as much as that could be avoided. Sure, it’s what his wife does, but if he can’t or won’t shut it down, his judgment is seriously whacked, and his diplomacy doesn’t exist.”

    6. Not A Manager*

      This is less of an employment issue and more of a marriage issue. If things have gotten to a point where the husband coerces or manipulates the wife into performing hostessry for his colleagues, and her response is to set the entire evening on fire, then the real question is which spouse is going file for divorce first. Probably the marriage will end before the job will end.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        Y’all are right. See, it was hard for me to see past the viciousness in that thread to get to the core issue of volun-telling. Plus, I love to cook, and to entertain, so the party would be a fun challenge for me. I can put myself in Patty’s shoes by imagining Mr. Devore telling me that he signed me up for intramural softball. But the analogy still ends there, first because Mr. D would never assign me to do something he knew I couldn’t/didn’t want to do. Or if he did, one of two things: either I could talk him out of it (“When I said I’d be there, I meant I’d cheer for you!”) or he would convince me that this was one of those things in life that just sucks, and then coach me through it, not tell me that he was playing the organ and I’d better dance.

        So yeah, that must have been a pretty toxic marriage. Good thing they didn’t have kids!

        1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

          Can’t ETA here: He would not tell me that he was playing the organ and I’d better dance, and I would not retaliate by taking a gigantic dump on the floor.

    7. Despachito*

      I can see so many wrong things here!

      1) The awful, vengeful, spiteful attitude towards an innocent stranger. These people calling a 15-year-old “it” are completely out of their minds.

      2) If I understand it well and Patty’ husband forced the event on her, that’s awful: who does this?

      3) The parents wanting to bring Priscilla – since when does the guest decide who to bring? (I assume neither Patty nor her husband invited her, given Patty’s attitude towards her).

      I think nobody but possibly Priscilla comes out clean of that. What a nasty bunch.

      I have no idea whether the husband could have been fired over that, but I think this is by far not the biggest problem here.

      1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        “The awful, vengeful, spiteful attitude towards an innocent stranger. These people calling a 15-year-old “it” are completely out of their minds.”

        Yeah, the forum wasn’t like that when I joined. Which I did because I was looking for a place to talk about grownup stuff, esp. women stuff, without fertility, pregnancy and parenting coming into it. For instance, to talk about dieting without anyone telling how they lost their baby weight. NTTAWWT, just that it’s not helpful to someone who’s never had their metabolism changed by pregnancy. Over time, though, people started coming in who mistook it for a place to vent about children and parents. (“My friend/friend’s SO got pregnant, and as soon as the kid was born, they dumped me!!!” “Oh, that always happens.” Gee, I wonder why.) People started drifting away, which means the haters became the majority.

        Some of them — and this is not snark; it’s based on their posts — had fantasies about seeing a child misbehaving (by their standards) in public, and delivering either a verbal smackdown or a good old-fashioned whoopin’, after which the parents would thank them with tears in their eyes, while bystanders applauded and the kid whimpered in the fetal position. Not saying they expected that to come true, but they sure relished the idea.

        “If I understand it well and Patty’ husband forced the event on her, that’s awful: who does this?” Dunno; I couldn’t tell from her posts if he was really forcing her, or if just his asking sent her into a tailspin of passive-aggression. What I wonder, though, is why Priscilla’s parents couldn’t host? That would solve two problems!

      2. Observer*

        I have no idea whether the husband could have been fired over that, but I think this is by far not the biggest problem here.

        I think that’s why the OP left the group.

        1. Despachito*

          The group was definitely horrid.

          But I was referring rather to the situation of Patty-her husband-his bosses. I assumed that Patty must have shared at least some of the group’s opinions, perhaps not as harsh as calling Priscilla “it”, but bad enough to pre-emptively hate a teenager she had never seen before.

          The husband – I feel it is always tricky to invite your boss to your home, and I cannot imagine this without discussing it with my partner first, and if he was not comfortable with it, I’d look for another solution. I cannot imagine forcing it on him, and I wonder how did the conversation of Patty’s husband with Patty about the visit go (we will probably never find out, but still).

          The invitation of Priscilla – again, we will not find out as OP herself said that was not revealed on the forum, but if the parents insisted on having her tag along, they were extremely rude, and if Husband invited her and did not consult it with Patty, it was rude of him (given the circumstances, I do not assume Patty invited her).

    8. Observer*

      And to what extent is an employee responsible for their spouse’s actions?

      If Patty pulled almost any of these stunts, Chuck could easily be fired. And with good reason. Not because he “can’t control his wife”. But because he shouldn’t have had the party if his partner can’t behave like a decent human being. I would say this whatever the genders – If Patty were the employee, and Chuck being the jerk, if it were Chuck and Patrick rather than Patty, or if it where Chere and Patty rather than Chuck and Patty. Because the issue here is not “wife wasn’t wifely enough” but person in your household who you unleashed on your guests is a major league jerk.

      Now, if Chuck were to apologize her in terms of “women, amirite?” that would be a HUGE problem on it’s own. The only acceptable apology would be that he had no idea that his partner (no matter the gender) was going to act in such a ridiculous manner and it’s totally out of character.

    9. Clisby*

      Anybody who brings along (or asks to bring along) an uninvited “extra” to a dinner party – whether it’s a child or a visiting sibling – has already committed a mortal act of rudeness. That doesn’t mean Patty should stoop to the same level, but she would be entirely justified in refusing ever to entertain that couple again.

      1. Clisby*

        And, of course, she would be entirely entitled to say (if asked in advance), “Oh, I’m sorry, we just can’t accommodate an extra person.” If that means the couple doesn’t come – fine.

        1. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

          I agree. But it was typical of that group to read arrogant entitlement into a simple request, and to project that the parents wouldn’t take no for an answer. Honestly, the way these people flew off the handle, it’s possible that Patty took a simple, “Would we be able to bring our daughter?” to mean “If we can’t bring our daughter, we won’t go!!!” And I think now I agree with that one poster: *let* the cheap-ass boss make a reservation at Olive Garden.

      2. Betsy Devore, Girl Sleuth*

        Except, just *asking* is mortally rude? Even if it’s a polite ask, one time, accepting “no” for an answer?

  38. Eldritch Office Worker*

    Professional way of saying “your webinar does not replace my seven years of hiring experience?”

    I am losing my patience with this person.

    1. Mid*

      “I appreciate your enthusiasm but I prefer to rely on my almost a decade of practical experience in the field.”

    3. TimeTravlR*

      More context? Are you being required to attend this webinar? If so, I’d just do it and then say, thank you for that information, and move on.
      If not, say, Thanks, I’ll look into it, and then don’t look into it.

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        It sounds like someone attended a webinar and now thinks they have just as much expertise as Eldritch Office Worker does.

      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        No it’s more “I attended this webinar about hiring and now I think I’m an expert and am extrapolating what I learned to insist we do these three things, two of which are illegal”

        1. quill*

          “Two of those are actually illegal, so I propose we defer to the subject matter expert (me) on that third idea.”

        2. Observer*

          Oh dear! Lean on the illegal part. Because it doesn’t matter who has experience or whose methods are more “up to date” or whatever. You simply CANNOT do illegal things.

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      “I realize that best practices about hiring change over time, and there are new ways of thinking about Z (or new technology), but my experience in X has shown that ABC is the best predictor of Y. I can give you more detail if you are interested.” If you have external sources of authority to back you up, that would probably help. Is the webinar from a reputable authority? If not, refute the webinar and not the person.

  39. Mid*

    How do you navigate questions about taking a medical leave in interviews?

    I’m currently on a medical leave for mental health reasons, and have been terminated from my job. (Yes, it’s legal, small company, Federal and State laws don’t apply.) I don’t know when I’ll be back to job hunting, but it’s likely to be a rather sizable gap (3+ months.) In the long term, I’m not worried about how this will look on my resume, but how do you answer questions when interviewing at other jobs? The job market in my area and field are very hot, so it would be very strange for someone to job hunt for 3+ months, and I feel like I’ll be asked why I’m looking for a new position after a gap.

    I don’t want to say it was medical leave, because that seems like a way for people to (unconsciously or not) discriminate against me. My family is out of state, so I guess I could say I was dealing with family things, but it would be a lie.

    1. ferrina*

      I’m not sure it will be as strange as you think- plenty of people are making new and different career choices in the wake of Covid. I wouldn’t proactively bring it up, but if it does come up, you can say “I took some time off to deal with a health condition. Thankfully the condition has been resolved, and I’m feeling much better and looking forward to getting back to work!”

      I hop you’re doing better!

      1. quill*

        Yeah, the vaguer you leave it the less likely people are going to think it’s a large ongoing deal. (Personally I’d subconsciously expect either a temporarily disabling injury or long covid at this point.)

        1. Mid*

          Ya know, I do live in a place where people are prone to fairly major injuries (skiing/snowboarding, climbing) so I could probably mention my sports activities and also the medical leave without lying and saying that I had a sports injury.

          1. quill*

            Even if you didn’t, enough people, say, fall in a hole and break their wrists, or are in car accidents, that one time major injuries that prevent you from working for a short period are within the scope of most interviewers’ imaginations.

      2. Mid*

        Thank you! I’m hoping it doesn’t come up but I want to be prepared so I’m not blindsided. I’m fairly open about my mental health struggles in my personal life, but in an interview I don’t want to risk dealing with the stigma.

    2. Littorally*

      I’d just say you decided to take a bit of a break between jobs. While it’s never good to give outright provable lies in an interview, being vague in this area isn’t a bad thing.

      1. Mid*

        That’s also a fair point. I think a lot of people had a difficult few years so it shouldn’t be unreasonable.

    3. NeedRain47*

      They may not even ask… just b/c you *could* have gotten a new job faster doesn’t mean you *have* to. I think if you say “medical leave, things are better now” and do not give them any more details or information. (and if they get nosy, it’s kind of a bad sign about their ability to mind their own business.) I also don’t think it would be wrong to say “dealing with a family situation” or anything else vague and nebulous, since you can’t say “nunya business” in a job interview.

    4. RagingADHD*

      How about, “I felt like it was important to take a pause and really evaluate what I was looking for, and the direction I wanted to take in my career. Fortunately, I was able to do that, and here is what I determined:”

      Then that segues you right into talking about what you like about the position and the company.

      Generally speaking, it’s helpful to steer the conversation when there’s something you don’t want to delve into. Give it a nudge back in the direction that you do want to talk about.

    5. Sacked*

      I got asked to resign last winter and have been job hunting since. Ultimately, I was struggling with mental health and the break from work has been very positive for my health.
      I have had a lot of interviews, and interestingly, many places are not asking about my last job or why I left. Some are though. The questions have included: What prompted your job search? What do you do at X company (misreading my resume and thinking I was still at X company)? And, a handful of variations on “why did you leave/why are you leaving?”
      I am prepared with a line that’s basically, I had a challenging time personally in 2020 and 2021 and needed to take a break and rest and I am now ready to return to the workplace and contribute my skills.
      No one probes more, they seem comfortable to move on quickly from this.
      I would suggest coming up with all the variations of the questions that you might get and just practice how you will phrase it with a similar vagueness. So many people have had life disrupted; interviewers may make assumptions, but there are a lot of very understandable assumptions (childcare, eldercare, long covid, grief, who knows..).

  40. WomEngineer*

    Someone in today’s “four answers” post asked about the ethics of sharing interview questions, and it reminded me of a similar experience.

    I had a 3rd party recruiter share sample Teapot Co. interview questions with me and ask me to share mine as well. These were technical questions (how to set up a FEA analysis, how to address manufacturing defects, etc.) that a strong candidate could figure out on their own, but someone with prior knowledge would have an advantage. There were also comments about which interviewer asked which questions.

    I know the recruiter has worked with Teapot Co. for a while and that they earn a commissions for accepted offers. Still, is it normal for recruiters to collect/share background info like this?

    1. irene adler*

      Yes. They want every advantage for their candidate.
      They also debrief their candidates after they complete the interview to get what questions were asked and add these to their “knowledge base” of their client.

    2. Nicki Name*

      Notes on individual interviewers is a little more detailed than normal, but absolutely recruiters will collect any information they can to give their candidates a leg up. It can also give them a better read on who the right candidate is.

      For instance, I once had a terrible interview experience where it became clear that while they’d advertised for a fairly generic software developer role, what they really wanted was someone with experience writing database engines. By letting the recruiter know that, hopefully I spared someone else going through what I did.

  41. Karen Carpenter Fan*

    Wonder if the time allocation in your job description is accurate? Do you feel you’re all over the place but can’t prove it? Time study it.

    I completed a self-directed time study, with the support of my boss who was equally interested in the outcomes. I am a non-profit gift processing and donor database specialist who also works in prospect research.

    I tracked for 6-weeks to compare the time allocation in my job description with reality. I did it when I had a strong competence of the job requirements/skills so I would have a fair opportunity to measure the tasks. 6 weeks because in reality you can’t track every minute, average 6 hours/day and at that rate you need 6 weeks to track 173 hours or a typical full time work month.

    Surprisingly, the time study came out very close to the job description. 75% gift processing (reports, database management, donor relations, etc); report analysis 20%; and 5% prospect research. It also reinforced my recent change to dedicate one day/week (my WFH day) to report analysis which I can’t get done in the office due to interruptions.

    It also showed my boss that while in the office, I’m toggling between tasks and responsibilities while at home I can focus on projects.

    Outcome: My boss loved the time study and asked two other team members to participate; my ‘mid-line’ boss did it and she learned a lot. My boss also wants to do her own time study to see where she’s hanging out (and it’s not in advancement tasks).

    Honestly, it doesn’t take time and there’s a good, free, tracker online that doesn’t require a lot of set-up or maintenance. It’s great for freelancing and/or volunteer tracking, too (I tracked 600 hours of pro bono work when I wasn’t working in 2020).

    1. Camelid coordinator*

      That is so interesting. Can you share a link to a tool? I have a staff member who insists a certain task (that she doesn’t enjoy) takes up too much of her time. I’ve asked for some numbers to back up that assertion but didn’t get anything back.

  42. Mgmt training?*

    Earlier this week Alison mentioned the course “Managing to Change the World” from The Management Center. (I’ll put the link in a comment.)
    1) Has anyone here taken that? What did you think?
    2) I’m not at a nonprofit, but a company working on international ‘make-the-world-a-better-place’ type work. Would that be a good fit for the training, or is it really best for nonprofits only?
    3) Any other recommendations for good management trainings?

    The background is that I’m a new manager and my company seems to have absolutely nothing in the way of management training or resources. The atmosphere here is very much ‘learn by doing,’ so sometimes even the idea of wanting an external training on soft skills is a bit pooh-poohed. But we do get a professional development stipend, which I’m thinking to ask to use on some kind of training.

    2. Lida*

      Meh, it’s OK. Probably good if you’re brand new to management and don’t have a mentor slash haven’t had other training or read other books. It’s a good “first step.”

  43. Alice*

    I’m waiting to hear back from some interviews and realizing: I should have made a special email account just for interviews instead of using my normal personal one. I have notifications on my personal email, and I don’t want to turn them off, but the hit of “is this the hiring manager?” “no it’s something else that is important but not about jobs” every time I see a personal email notification is no fun.

    1. Collie*

      I’m not sure what email system you use, but I wonder if there’s a setting you can adjust to look for keywords/relevant email addresses and make the emailer server mark those emails as important?

    2. ferrina*

      Ooh, I know exactly what you’re talking about! It was non-stop anxiety every time I saw an email. I ended up doing exactly what you’re suggesting- I made an email account just for job apps. It is much better.

    3. VV*

      Omg I feel this so much. Currently waiting on a couple of expected job search-related emails plus just the general wonder for the applications I have out there… I try to send stuff off and forget about it, but it’s much easier said than done! Honestly, I like the separate email account idea.

    4. Grace Less*

      Some people look at me like I have three heads, but I’ve organized my life with different email accounts for that reason.

      1. Work – company-provided, only used for work tasks
      2. Yahoo – rewards cards, coupons, online shopping receipts
      3. Hotmail – medical, kids’ schools, tax deductions
      4. Gmail 1 – family correspondence, credit card fraud alerts (push notifications)
      5. Gmail 2 – job hunting (push on during active searches, off during passive periods)

      All tied to my phone for as-needed access

  44. Bad Qs*

    I had a phone interview the other day where I was asked, among other things, what I consider a valid reason for calling out and how many times I’ve been late to work in the past year. The tardiness thing I guess I can understand if they’ve had problems with that but I was really taken aback by the first part. Do they really think somebody’s going to say anything other than sickness/emergency to an interviewer?? I was very tempted to say “None of your beeswax” but managed to resist.

    1. ferrina*

      Sounds like they’re haunted by the ghost of their last hire. That’s a ridiculous question and tells you a lot about them. Run.

      1. Aggresuko*

        LOL, reminds me of the interview where I got asked multiple times if I was able to come back to the office after lunch on time.

      2. WoodswomanWrites*

        Giant red flag for a workplace to avoid. I can’t imagine getting asked this in a first interview.

    2. PollyQ*

      I’m sure there are plenty of bad employees who don’t know they’re bad and who’d be perfectly comfortable saying the ridiculous reasons they consider valid.

  45. Collie*

    Our new manager who started in the fall (after an extremely toxic and also hands-off in a different way manager left, but not before months of retaliation ending in her hitting my car and then denying it despite security camera footage) is too hands-off. Other employees are treating customers like crap, are slacking to the extreme (leaving hours early, not fulfilling basic job duties to the point where customers are complaining to other staff, watching movies while at public service points [not okay in our workplace for legitimate reasons], and otherwise taking advantage of Manager’s physical absence due to their schedule and hands-off approach). I and other employees have brought these concerns to her because, frankly, even while not all of those issues directly impact us — though sometimes they do — the group of employees pulling this stuff just make all of us look bad and it’s embarrassing.

    After a coworker had a conversation about this with our manager recently, we all got an email with expectations from Manager. Manager followed this email up with a conversation with me asking if I’d be willing to enforce these things when she’s not in the building and I’m serving as the person of contact. The person of contact typically does things like responds to emergency facilities issues and serves as the “I want to talk to a manager” manager, but mostly to connect those people to the actual manager. The person of contact does not have any authority over other employees. The person of contact more or less rotates around a particular group of employees. So when my manager asked about me enforcing this, I said no, on the grounds that one of the other people who serves as the person of contact is one of the most egregious offenders of what she listed in the email, that it’s above my paygrade, and that it wouldn’t sit well with my coworkers to be policed by one of their own. Because I’d brought similar concerns to her in the past, but did not go to her every single time I witnessed one of these issues because that would be ridiculous, I did agree to share with her when I saw these things going forward. I’m not thrilled about it, but it seemed like a reasonable compromise.

    We thought she had just started off sort of timid as she got her bearings, but she’s been here nearly six months and seems to be very conflict avoidant and otherwise struggles to actually manage the branch, especially given that this particular group needs additional oversight. There’s speculation that she won’t be around long based on her behavior and (admittedly probably inappropriate) speculation that she may be pregnant, so we also wonder if she’s planning on leaving and therefore is pretty checked out from doing her job a lot of the time with the vigor necessary for this particular situation.

    Add’l info: To be fair, I’m a fixer, so I’ve been doing a little bit of above-and-beyond — but not to the point where I think it’s sensible for a manager to effectively ask me to do her job as described above. I apparently also just give off that vibe. More than a few times, other people in the org have come through and later told me they thought I was the manager. It’s explained to me that this isn’t because I’m telling people what to do or anything like that, but just that I know what I’m doing and am responsible, etc.

    More info: The team is a difficult one with personalities that are challenging. As an example, one person regularly has expressive, upset outbursts that others in the organization visiting from other locations have commented on more than once (including referring to customers with profanity around customers). Another employee evidently complained that they were expected to stay at work for their scheduled hours when they aren’t scheduled to sit at a public service point after the expectations email went out. Basic job duties are not being fulfilled and people are complaining, but often to me. And I can’t say I’m entirely surprised, but I wish they would complain to someone higher up because there are only so many times I can report my coworkers and complain about how they’re not pulling their weight, especially when our duties are somewhat siloed, in a sense (it’s hard to explain without going into too much detail, but hopefully suffice to say entire community populations are basically being ignored as a result of this unwillingness to do the work they signed up to do).

    So — I’m not entirely sure what my question is at this point other than at what point do I escalate to boss’s boss? Do I suggest new manager needs some coaching? Is there something else I can do?

    1. Collie*

      I should add — I’ve gently mentioned to Manager that, you know, she’s the manager and she should feel confidence in doing manager-y things (whatever that thing is in the moment in a given discussion). This doesn’t seem to empower her.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      I’d escalate it.

      One, it’s kind of ridiculous to hire someone as a manager but then give her a schedule that keeps her out of the office so much that even if she were inclined to do so she couldn’t effectively do her job, so whoever is above her needs to know that that’s a thing that’s not working. (I’m assuming that Ineffective Manager is not setting her own schedule and can’t be there, not that she’s choosing a schedule herself that keeps her away.)

      But if customers are complaining, it’s hurting business and higher-ups need to be looped in.

      1. Collie*

        That part’s a challenge because part of it is due to religious faith and the sabbath. I’m sympathetic, but it absolutely makes things more challenging. But, it’s also fair to say she spends far more time in her office than I personally think is appropriate, especially given what’s going on.

        I appreciate the nudge, though. I’ve been so torn on when enough is enough.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          She could take that time for religious activities *if* the other stuff was under control. But it’s not. (My boss could leave us alone for a month and we’d be fine because collectively we know how to behave. Your manager has not earned that kind of flexibility.)

          1. Dust Bunny*

            Or she could decide that religion > doing this job and find a position somewhere with less responsibility. She’s not powerless here; she’s not using the authority she has.

    3. Kathenus*

      A few suggestions occurred to me when reading this, which one(s) might work for you are probably situation-dependent, so tossing them out for you to consider:

      1) Most importantly, to me – do not jump in and ‘fix’ any of these things – let there be consequences including unhappy customers, work undone, etc. If you or others take up the slack then manager has even less reason to address the problem, but if you let the natural consequences happen, they become manager’s problem and may help motivate her to act.
      2) When you inform her about ongoing problems, add something along the lines of – ‘these are continuing problems that I’ve notified you about before, what is you plan to improve the situation since they are still happening’?
      3) Escalate, either now, or if after trying one or both of the above.

      Good luck, I know it’s a challenging situation.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        Second all of this: Don’t cover for her–let stuff fall apart if she’s letting it fall apart.

  46. Feeling Trapped*

    I’m looking for some advice on how to set limits in regards to job responsibilities.

    I work as an administrative assistant for an academic department at a university, and I’ve been here over 3 years. I am quite over-qualified for the position, but I like working here, have great benefits, and it’s been a nice low-key job to have while I’ve also been in graduate school full time. In terms of staff, the department is on the smaller side, so there’s always been a culture of just stepping in and helping with whatever is needed. When I first started, the position was new, as they were essentially splitting an old position into two. Over the years, my job responsibilities have grown– what was initially just reception, recruiting, purchasing, and basic office help has turned into me taking over travel, alumni relations, and a host of marketing and communications tasks.

    That last thing is where I keep running into issues. We have a marketing/communications (MarComm) team at the college level (think College of Arts; I’m in the department of photography, for example) that is supposed to handle all of our marketing and communications. However… this does not really happen. Our department is largely ignored by the team, and it has been very hard for me to get our MarComm rep to give us the support we need. And, because I do have access to all of the accounts… and am quite good at writing and design (my graduate degree is related)… historically I’ve just taken over a lot of those tasks, because they wouldn’t get done otherwise.

    A few months ago, there was an opening on the MarComm team– the position that, in particular, would work with our department. The MarComm team have always really liked me and my work, and so with the support of my manager and department chair, I applied for that position. I was very excited about this because there aren’t really opportunities for advancement in my position, and I felt like I had essentially been doing this job already. I made it to the final round of interviews, but they ended up going with someone who had more specific design experience.

    I was disappointed, but ultimately fine. When the new MarComm rep started, I set up a meeting with them and my manager so that we could more carefully delineate responsibilities. I would handle our department blog and writing for our bi-annual newsletter, and they would handle our social media and any other design and marketing needs. For a little while this went okay, but now that we’re a few months in, our department is again being underserved by the central MarComm team.

    This is where there’s an issue for me: at times I am asked to step in and work on marketing that is ultimately not my responsibility, and I don’t know how to respond. Additionally, I know a lot of things have started to fall by the wayside (think events not fully publicized) that I could technically step in and help with. Some faculty and my department chair have expressed frustration with this. I really care about my department and the work we do, so this really bothers me. However, I did the work of setting boundaries and outlining those with our MarComm rep. And, frankly, I feel a bit bitter about doing the MarComm work when I know that, if I were to actually be on the MarComm team, I’d be getting paid 10k-15k more per year.

    On one hand, I feel like I could be doing more and could step in and improve our social media and overall marketing and communications. On the other hand, I feel like I’m being taken advantage of when I do work that is far above my pay grade and outside of my job description. It’s possible that there’s a conversation to be had with my manager and department chair about my job duties and perhaps rearranging them and getting additional compensation. However, I also work at a large state university and these things have tons of red tape and bureaucracy, and as I’m graduating with a master’s soon I may not be here much longer (though also I might be… my field is notoriously difficult).

    Any insights/advice?

    1. alt ac*

      Don’t do it. Higher ed is notorious for letting people absorb additional job responsibilities without compensating them. I’m currently doing two major extra things that other people would get stipends or course releases for, and I get…neither. Like you, I care about these things, though, so I’ve taken it on for years. Now I’m resentful.

      This is a problem with the MarComm team, and your leadership should be addressing this with them. If they haven’t already, they should have strategy meetings with your rep specifically to establish a calendar of events, a promotional timeline as well as filler posts that relate to areas of interest for your department. Then if those things don’t happen, that’s another issue.

      Please don’t take this on when there is someone who is already responsible for this.

    2. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      This sounds a lot like me at my job 4 years ago. Basically, you have to STOP doing the job of the MarCom department. Just do the blog and newsletter as agreed. That is it.

      Send the person or people on the MarCom staff things that need to get done for the month in advance, and email and be sure to ‘CC the managers in your department. That way, if they don’t do it, it’s on that department.

      Hi Ms. MarCom,
      This month, [my department] needs the following MarCom items completed.
      >>Social posts for Event A
      >>Press release and signs for Events C and D
      >>Brochure for Thing One and Thing Two
      >>Update website to include new XYZ program description.
      >>Etc., whatever is due that month

      Please send all drafts if they require approvals, and a publication schedule or ETA to myself and Manager #1 and Manager #2.

      Thanks in advance!
      Feeling Trapped

      1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

        Resist the urge to step in and fix or do it if this is not formal part of your job duties.
        If your manager WANTS to have you become the MarCom person for your department, they can very well promote you and pay you what a Communications Specialist or MarCom manager gets paid.

    3. Camelid coordinator*

      Let me join the chorus saying don’t do it. Having you take up that work makes a very real problem go away. Is there some way you can make sure others (who might be able to do something about it) feel the pain of MarComm not doing their job? Or can you document for a while the things that are not getting done and then argue for reclassifying your job at a higher level to include these tasks? That is more of a long-term strategy, which may not work for your timetable.

    4. Feeling Trapped*

      Thank you, all! This is definitely reaffirming my gut instinct to just not do it. I’ll continue to CC my manager on related things and then hopefully we can have a more thorough conversation about it after the semester is over.

  47. Lioness Rampant*

    I think I’m going to be fired. I’m on a PIP and made a couple big mistakes. I don’t want to get fired, but trying to prepare for what’s likely. Might not be a bad thing in the long run- the people at the company are kind and thoughtful, but also massively disorganized, run purely on institutional knowledge and don’t really do training or SOPs (we send out dozens of external reports each month, and y’all, there is no style guide). It’s been so stressful.

    I’ve got enough savings that I will be fine for 6 months. I think a job search will take 4-5 months in my industry, so I can take a break for a few weeks. What should I do to prepare myself for leaving?

    1. Aggresuko*

      Make sure all of your stuff is packed up/leave the bare minimum that you need at the office. Clear everything personal off the work computer or otherwise move it elsewhere. Be prepared to get kicked out at a moment’s notice physically. Stop recreational spending.

      I’m sorry to hear this is happening to you :(

      1. Lioness Rampant*

        Thanks! Thankfully I’m wfh and don’t have any personal items on my work laptop. I’m trying to figure out if I should take a copy of some of the work I’ve done (just for my own reference- I can’t tell if that’s common in my industry, but seems like some might do it?). I’ve decreased my spending a bit, but could definitely do more.

    2. Miel*

      Alison has written before about an option that may make sense in your position – negotiating a planned amicable departure. This could look like you talking to your boss and saying “it seems that I’m not a good fit for this role; could we make a plan for me leaving this role?” You can negotiate the end date and possibly even what they’d say as a reference.

      You may want to think through the unemployment implications of this option.

      Good luck.

      1. Lioness Rampant*

        Thank you. I don’t want to proactively usher myself out- ironically the things I messed up were completely different than the issues outlined in my PIP.

        I do want unemployment, but I also don’t want a firing on my record. So….not sure if that’s something I could negotiate after my PIP, but I’m guessing it’s both firing & unemployment, or neither.

    3. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Is there a way to make it work? I don’t think lack of training or SOPs is an uncommon thing. You may encounter it again. I think it’s worth learning how to navigate that environment, which involves a lot of “one day at a time” mentality so you don’t get too stressed. Were your mistakes actual mistakes or things you just never knew about because they were never mentioned? If its the latter, it is possible you can improve the situation?

      1. Lioness Rampant*

        Most of my mistakes (the ones that got me on the PIP and the ones after) were due to lack of training. I’ve started making my own SOPs, which have really helped (and I’ve shared some of them with other team members, who love them). I’m not the only one on a PIP due to lack of training.

        I don’t know if I can make it work. I’m still working hard and being my best self. I just don’t know if that’s something that my boss is willing to invest in or if she wants to cut me loose and find someone who doesn’t need training.

        One day at a time is great advice. I’ve been so stressed while on this PIP, and now that I think I’m failing, it’s almost freeing (if that makes sense?). It’s still so, so stressful. Any other advice on the stress?

        1. quill*

          At my current job where I’m doing B- work in a role that only accepts A’s, it’s helped me to set a date. I’ll try to improve here but I’m also actively job hunting. I did also drill down to getting my boss to accept gradual improvements, in that every system has approximately 1 million moving parts, so I’m probably going to make a total of 200-500 mistakes on “normal” uses of the system until I find all the things I could mess up and write instructions for them. But I’m no longer doing C+ work in that every use has multiple problems, it’s that most items have one, maybe two problems, so there has been improvement in ways that my boss was not initially checking on.

            1. quill*

              Are there any jobs where a solid B is the middle of expected performance? I don’t think I can be a straight A student as long as Covid exists and takes up some of my allotment of worry.

              1. Lioness Rampant*

                Yeah, this industry def has those. Part of it is that my boss is stretched thin and trying to phone it in, so she wants me to be able to pick up the pieces. An I can’t do that without training, or at least some SOPs! But this company doesn’t do that- they just expect you to figure it out.

        2. DinosaurWrangler*

          “Most of my mistakes (the ones that got me on the PIP and the ones after) were due to lack of training. I’ve started making my own SOPs, which have really helped (and I’ve shared some of them with other team members, who love them).”

          Have you pointed this out to your manager? The fact that you’re writing these SOPs is a very positive piece of info. Have you expressed to your boss that they can’t expect people to read other people’s minds in order to know how to do their jobs? ( I’m sure there’s a more tactful way to say this).
          Also, does your company consider PIPs to always be a k look rad-up to firing? Or do they actually accept that people can improve?
          As for keeping examples of your work, this might be useful if prospective employees want this sort of thing. Be sure to sanitize them (remove client and company names, etc)

    4. The Ginger Ginger*

      So, when I was worried about the company I was working for at the time just flat out folding (like what if I went to work one day and the doors were just locked), I made a short term/mid term/long term plan to help me manage my anxiety around it. Some of it might be helpful, some not.
      Short term
      Day of – I was going home, taking a xanax and taking a long nap.
      The next day, I was going to cancel/update a ton of my subscriptions/entertainment/outgoing payments to stretch my money longer (and I made the list of these while I made my plan). And I would apply for unemployment (had the link pre-loaded in my plan document).
      Mid Term
      I updated my resume in advance so it was ready to go, and I would start job hunting from where I was and continue paying rent etc
      I had a list of free things to do in my area so I could take care of myself and make sure my whole life wasn’t job hunting
      Long Term
      I knew the tipping point of when it would be time to break my lease and take the hit from the contract penalty to move in with relatives to continue to job hunting

      luckily I never needed it, but I found when I was having trouble sleeping beacuse my brain was freaking out about what ifs, I could remind brain of the plan, and that there was literally nothing else I could do to prepare for it unless I wanted to leave the job early, and that definitely helped.

      4. The Ginger Ginger*

        I should add, I also had a list of questions for HR if needed. So if you think you may go into a firing situation, you may want to have a list of important questions in your phone so you know what to ask even if you go blank – thing like, how long is my health insurance valid for?
        – is there any severance attached to this?
        – what number should I refer people to to verify my employment dates if needed

        etc. You know your situation, so know what questions you’ll want answered, but having them ready so you don’t have to rely on your brain to be firing on all cylinders while you deal with the emotional impact of a firing will definitely be helpful.

    5. Colette*

      I agree with other that getting your finances in order is key, but I’d also suggest you re-think the break for a few weeks. When I worked at a company that was going through wave after wave of layoffs, I knew people who “took the summer off”, and a significant number of them never started again.

      Take a week off, sure, but give yourself a firm deadline as to when you’re going to start looking.

    6. Girasol*

      If there are any folks there who might give you a good recommendation or suggest places you should apply, get contact info from them before it’s too late. There might be folks who understand that you were put in a tough position and be kind about it.

  48. AE*

    Low stakes Q here–a while back I was LinkedIn messaged by a young (mid-20s) grad student from outside my networks asking for information on a former workplace of mine because they wanted to apply to a position that I held when I worked there. We ended up having a half hour call and discussing the skills needed for the job, types of projects, and company culture. I also gave them some suggestions for orgs doing similar work that they might also want to investigate. My initial impression of them was positive.

    Afterwards, they sent me a series of follow-up messages with a number of additional requests. For example, they’d noticed that a job listing at one of the other places I’d suggested had been up for a couple of months, so they asked me to contact the director, who I had worked with at one point but was not particularly close/friendly with, to see if they were “really still hiring.” (I demurred and told them I was not in contact with this person.) They then got an interview at my former company, and messaged me to “Please send them a list of tips” to help them prepare. Not huge networking etiquette breaches, but I was a bit put off by the somewhat pushy and entitled tone, so I didn’t write back right away, and then, because I have the attention span of a hummingbird…promptly forgot about it. (They are a native English speaker from the same country as me, so it also wasn’t a matter of linguistic or cultural disconnect.)

    I didn’t hear back from them again, but I was thinking about this recently and now I’m wondering if I should have got back to them after all, and also maybe have given them some gentle advice about how to approach networking contacts in our industry? As I am all to aware as an AMA reader, a lot of people get really crappy advice about networking and job searching. (Note that this is not an “ugh KIDS these days” issue, as this kind of communications issue hasn’t come up in my networking interactions with other people in that age group. I am in my late 30s.)

    1. ferrina*

      You’re fine. This was a reasonable response, and if the person was as smart as they seem, they’ll be able to figure out what happened and use that going forward to refine their networking.

      The gentle advice is an above-and-beyond thing. Yes, it’s lovely when you can do it, but it’s unreasonable to expect yourself to always have the presence of mind/bandwidth to be able to do this.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      I don’t think you need to be responsible for giving career advice to random grad students you don’t really know well. If anything, I’d just decline these follow-up requests to close the loop. If they’re able to read into it that this is not a great way to leverage their networks, great, but it’s not on you to do that work.

      Them: “Can you ask Director if the company is really still hiring for this position?”
      You: “I’m actually not in contact with Director anymore. But you could email the hiring manager to inquire whether the position is still open before you submit your application.”

      Them: “Can you give me some tips to prepare for the interview?”
      You: “Unfortunately, I don’t really have information about the position beyond what we discussed in our informational interview. You should prepare for it like you would any other interview. Best of luck – I’m sure you’ll do great!”

    3. RagingADHD*

      You should have gotten back to them if you wanted to get back to them.

      You didn’t, so you didn’t. That is the system working as intended.

  49. MechanicalPencil*

    Low stakes, but it bugs me.

    I (F) am on a team that consists of 2 other women and 1 male. He and I are the same level, other two are probably higher in the org/have more power. The guy is a contractor working out of Canada, whereas the rest of us are US based. He’s probably late 20s, the rest of us are 30s+.

    On more than one occasion now, our contractor has said something like “well, girls, how do you want to handle the TPS reports.” I find the use of “Girls” irksome, but I’m not sure if it’s actually a thing, and if so, how to push back on it. Any scripts? Or do I just need to let this go.

    1. AE*

      Yeah, that’s annoying. Would something like, “[pause] Hmm, I’m pretty sure we’re all adults here, but…” work?

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yeah, it’s a thing. I think you can say, in a friendly way, “Hey I’d rather not be called a girl, thanks.” Or you can start calling him “boy” or “kiddo” or something.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      I’m 40+ and would have zero compunction about messaging him privately first and pointing out (politely) that “girls” isn’t an appropriate way to address coworkers (or almost anyone). If he doesn’t get that message I’d push back harder and more publicly, but it usually doesn’t hurt to start nicely and discreetly.

    5. Miel*

      I would suggest the direct (polite) route rather than the passive aggressive route. Good luck!

    6. ferrina*

      Be direct! I’d start with “hey, I’d rather not be not be called ‘girl’, thanks! For those TPS reports, we can have those ready by …” The quick change of subject will allow him to save face and doesn’t leave an opportunity for argument or silly justifications (cuz no one has time for that)
      That might be all it takes.

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      Honestly I would say something like, “well, boy/well, kiddo, we typically do X,Y,Z” and if that didn’t fix it I’d respond directly the next time, with, “Hey, I made a bit of a joke about it last time, but can you not call us girls? It feels pretty odd in this setting.”

    8. Mid*

      I like “we hired children???” in as dramatic a tone as you can muster, making it clear you’re joking but also not okay with being called a girl.

    9. Dark Macadamia*

      “Oh, I’m a woman/we’re women” in a cheerful, polite tone before answering the question

      “Not a girl” like Janet from The Good Place

      “Well, boy, what we usually do…”

    10. Donkey Hotey*

      As tempting as it is to lead with “Well, boy…” that has extra connotations which could be problematic.
      First time, I’d message him privately to let him know about your office norms in the US.
      Second time, I’d mention it in the moment.
      Third time, I’d summon the spirit of a Canada Goose and chase him away, honking loudly, waving a hockey stick and throwing TimBits at him.

    11. Hotdog not dog*

      This just came up for me last week. Verbatim: “We are not ‘the girls’. We are adult professionals.”
      That part of the conversation went fine, and in the aftermath we have been referred to either by our names or our roles. (I.e, “can you ask the Llama Wranglers when they expect to complete this week’s report?”)
      I’d say the direct approach is the way to go.
      (The rest of that situation is still in progress.)

    12. RagingADHD*

      You can certainly push back if you’re so inclined. I usually respond by calling the person “sweet cheeks” or “baby doll.”

      Never had negative fallout, never had to do it twice.

    13. Texan In Exile*

      It is a thing and yes, push back on his condescension. “We are not girls, we’re women. Call us by our names. If you wish to address all of us at once, ‘you’ or ‘team’ is just fine.”

      What a sexist jerk.

    14. retired3*

      I work for a large multinational company. Someone called me and the meeting leader “girls.” I complained to the C suite. A memo went out promptly and there will be systemwide training. I am in my late 70’s; I’m not putting up with this ***.

      1. linger*

        Once upon a time, I worked with a colleague to describe occurrences of girl(s) and boy(s) in workplace contexts. The singular form was generally intended by a speaker as, and perceived by a recipient as, sexist and demeaning (examples were predominantly girl, and signalled inferior status). Let’s be clear, nobody should have to put up with that! However, uses of the plural forms were more ambivalent. We found both girls and boys being used with a range of other functions signalling solidarity within a team, or used by an outsider to refer to a team (“the girls in Reception”, “the boys in the lab”). Very occasionally we found the plural used more obviously to downgrade a group of higher status, but the referents in such cases were mostly male (“the big boys”, “the four-figure boys”, “the Aussie television boys” [referring to executives making editing decisions]).

  50. urban teacher*

    Special Education teacher with a MPA and lots of volunteer experience with outreach and some event planning. I also have a bookkeeping certificate since I’m a lousy waitress and beginning teachers tend to have 2 jobs.. I started to use the Best Companies to work for in the local newspaper to apply but I’m also hoping to get input in best places to apply for career changers? Fields that may be a good fit? Looking to expand my looking.

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      Would you be interested in being a payroll or accounts payable accountant? Those would be good if you like repetitive tasks and have a high degree of accuracy and attention to detail.
      You could also (and hopefully someone with non-profit experience will weigh in here) look at non profits for volunteer coordination type jobs and also event planning. Some large companies have event planners as well. In others it falls under an admin type role. There are also event planning companies.
      Good luck!

  51. Is it hopeless?*

    I’ve been with my teapot manufacturing company for almost 16 years. My boss was recently promoted to a senior executive position and reorganized our department with my new coworker (less than a year) and me as managers to two junior team members – one under each of us. This arrangement is new, under 90 days. Three weeks ago, our boss told us he’s hiring a director to head the department and manage me and my co-manager so that he can more fully step back from our department to focus on his new role (managing both our department and another as well as some higher level strategy for the company in general). This change was a big surprise. My co-manager and I thought we would be absorbing the management duties of our director, but he feels he is still too closely tied to our department (evident in his continued micromanagement of specific items). My co-manager and I have been invited to apply as internal candidates but also told that outside candidates will be interviewed. We both plan to apply, but have asked to see the job description before we do so. I know my boss is already reaching out to external candidates to “assess their interest,” however, no job has been posted publicly, and our boss is dragging his feet and keeps promising and failing to show us the job description for the new role. If you’re still reading, here’s my question and concern: I have a strong feeling (and no proof) that my boss wants to keep me in my current role, because while I’m a manager, my primary function is in creating content and managing processes and other technical details of the teapot company. I’m experienced and knowledgeable in my current role. I’ve been at my company longer than anyone else in my department. Also, I’ve been working on my management skills and have been a manager for four years. Yet, I can’t shake the feeling that I’m not going to be seriously considered for the director position. It’s making me question everything and keeping me up at night. Any advice? I’ll also take commiseration or stories of similar experiences. Thanks in advance!

    1. BalanceofThemis*

      It’s possible that just because he wants to hire someone, it doesn’t mean her has been given the go-ahead to do it. He can’t show you a job description if one hasn’t been approved.

      It’s also very possible that the intent is to bring in an outside person and leave you and your coworker in the position you are now, so he’s dragging his feet.

      If you know you want a higher level position, the best thing to do may be to job hunt.

      1. Is it hopeless?*

        Thanks. The job has been approved by my grand-boss. I love my work, but I know myself. It’ll be quite a hit if I apply and don’t get it. I’ve already started looking around at other options just in case. There are lots of remote positions, but few local in my particular field.

    2. ferrina*

      BalanceofThemis is right. The best you can do is make clear your interest (which you’ve done) and keep checking in. You may very well be right about your boss’ intentions, but there’s nothing you can really do about it.

      I was in a similar situation a few years back- my boss was leaving and they were looking for her replacement. I was well versed in the politics of the company and knew I wouldn’t get it, but made my interest clear and got a courtesy interview. I didn’t get the position, but I did get face time with the leadership team. I underscored my accomplishments (most of which they weren’t aware of….because they hadn’t bothered to read the resume I gave them) and suggest some initiatives I was interested in pursuing. They were impressed, which gave me the leverage I needed to start a couple new programs.
      I did end up leaving- that place was dysfunctional in a lot of ways. Ironically, I did end up doing my boss’s job because the person they promoted had no idea what she was doing (she had less than half the required experience for the position). I used the responsibility that she offloaded onto me as accomplishments in my resume, and got a new job elsewhere.

  52. Big Huge Promotions advice*

    Hey all — looking for advice from people who have taken significant promotions! I just accepted a step up that “skipped a grade” in our promotions chart — on paper it was fine, but when I landed with my team I realized they’re all 10+ years further in their careers than I am, and had previous roles within this hierarchy tier, where I’m coming into it fresh from a lower-level (though not entry-level) position.

    I would say it’s as though I went right from “grooming llamas under oversight” skipped right past “overseeing normal llama grooming” and got hired into “overseeing champion show llama grooming.” I am nobody’s direct boss but I supervise specific activity and handle the fallout when things go badly off the rails. Everyone has been very supportive and I don’t believe I’ve been hired past my level of competence, but getting my feet under me is proving intimidating.

    – How did you get a feel for your new position, politically speaking?
    – How much specific/dedicated training did you get?
    – What tripped you up the most in adapting to your new position? What would you definitely avoid, if given a do-over?
    – What was the most helpful thing you did? What would you definitely encourage someone to do in this position?

    Appreciate any feedback/advice y’all have.

    1. M.*

      I’m right there with you! I accepted a director-level promotion on a new team within my company last winter. It’s been eye-opening, for sure, and I’m still figuring out how I feel, re: your questions.

      The team has been great, so culturally, that part hasn’t been an adjustment for me. I’m not interested in “ruling” with any kind of an iron fist—even though I might rank higher than some on the team, they’ve been there for much longer than I have, so I deeply respect their contributions and I want to hear what they have to say.

      The issue I’m kind of running into a bit right now is that it sometimes feels as though my director forgets that I’ve only been in the role (and this line of work) for a few months, whereas their other direct reports have been there for more than a decade each. I’m just not at that level yet, and it’s going to take a while. Training hasn’t been the best, if I’m honest. The tools and systems this team uses are much more advanced than I’m used to. But I’m also friendly with the trainer, so if something isn’t clear to me, I don’t feel any qualms about asking for clarity.

      For me, I’m still feeling it all out. I’m not looking to quit right this moment, but I’m also not totally convinced that this is the right position for me. (If I had to say right now, I don’t think that it is, but I also recognize that I haven’t seen the entirety of the position just yet, and I want to give it a fair shake.)

      So, I guess that’s what I would say to you—and to myself: trust the fact that you were chosen for this position, likely among a pool of others. Give yourself the space to learn and grow within it. And you know what, at the end of the day, it really is just a job. If it’s not for you or if you find yourself struggling with it, it doesn’t reflect on who you are or your abilities. You can always find something new that’s a better fit for you.

  53. FuddyDudd*

    Hey everyone! I’m in a bit of a pickle and could use some collective wisdom.

    Last fall, I quit my corporate gig and decided two things: I was going to apply to grad school, and that I wanted to get a job in the non-profit world (I had been in the industry before the corporate job) to get reacquainted with the industry.
    I got a job at a small non-profit, and just a couple months after, was accepted into my dream grad program.
    The issue is that I really, really like this job. I love my team and my boss is fantastic. The org is small, but in a fantastic stage of growth and I’d really like to continue to be apart of it. However… I won’t be able to juggle this full time job and full time grad school at the same time come next fall. The program is designed to be full time, on campus during the day time (it’s not night school), and the job I’m working is decidedly full time.
    Ideally, I’d like to ask my boss if I can stay with the org and either convert my role to part time, or switch to a different role (that doesn’t exist yet?) and also attend my full time program. I understand that the answer might be no, and I might need to resign to attend my program. I’m struggling with how to make this ask. Does anyone have recommendations on language I can use, or been in this position before?

    1. Sunshine*

      Is grad school “just for fun,” or something that would help you in this career? If it’s something that will help you in this career they might be more flexible, but I think that being so new to the company (not even a year), they are not likely to change the nature of the job for you. Depending on how valuable you’ve been in this short time, they might consider creating a new part-time role for you, but in a lot of places it’s really, really hard to do that.

      I think your options are to delay going to grad school until you’re better-established in this job, or to explain the situation to your manager and leave as gently as possible with the hope of being re-hired once you have your degree. They might not be happy that you took the job knowing you were going to bail on them for grad school, but if you leave without burning bridges they might get over it. But in a few years the organization may have changed and it might no longer be the workplace that you love so much now – you mention that they’re in a fantastic stage of growth, which is something that can change. Grad school, on the other hand, will always be there (although having to go through admissions again would be a pain).

      1. Camelid coordinator*

        I also like the idea of deferring grad school for a year (or two) and staying in a job that you really enjoy and is exciting to you. Probably because I work in higher ed I feel like it will always be there, whereas really satisfying jobs are more rare. You could still have the conversation about how to juggle but maybe also mention you could put school off for a year (and maybe even juggle at that point once you are a better known quantity).

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Can you/would you want to defer your acceptance a year? You are only a couple months in, you might have more perspective in a year on what you want to do and if there’s a place in the organization you might be able to slot into more comfortably in a smaller role.

      I have been in this position before and basically just laid it out have you have here. “I got accepted to xxx which is my dream program, but I really love this organization and am remiss to leave. Do you think there’s a way we could rework my position so I could do both? Here are a, b, and c possibilities I’ve thought of but I an completely open to other options”

    3. Karen Carpenter Fan*

      It’s always no if you don’t ask.

      Everything you just said is appropriate for the conversation. I assume a small non-profit has no sabbatical options (I’ve been in non-profit for 20 years).

      The question is, will this graduate school experience bring any value to the non-profit such that they make changes for you and you provide something in return? Is the work you perform now at FT as valuable and responsive as a PT role? You should come to the table with a concept of what a PT role would look like for your position and be open to them hiring another PT person to do the remainder. Also keeping your foot in the door as a PT person, will that help or hinder the team?

      You could ask about future opportunities, but we know in non-profit that is determined by the money. Given the economy, inflation, Ukraine, and lingering COVID, those dollars are fragile and unknown. I work in fundraising and our contingency plans are filed under each one. We have a campaign out right now and while performing better than 2021, it’s lagging a bit.

    4. OtterB*

      Since you say your boss is fantastic, I think you’re just up front about it: you’ve been accepted for the full time grad program in the fall, but you love the organization and would like to continue working with them if there’s some way to make it work for both of you. You’re thinking along the lines of converting your role to part time, or possibly switching to a new role as [something the organization needs that fits your skills and interests], but you’re open to anything that fits your constraints of [amount of time you think you could work, times you’d be unavailable because of class, etc.] . Does Boss think this might be possible?

  54. Metadata Janktress*

    I work a jack of all trades position in a small department within a company, with a larger emphasis on a couple of aspects, e.g. llama care, but the majority of my job duties involve feeding the llamas and stall maintenance. (Do llamas live in stalls? They do in this example, I guess.) Originally, my job was temporary due to budget stuff, but both my boss and grandboss didn’t want to lose me so they tried to make another position in the larger company that only focuses on llama stall maintenance. It’s amazing that they were willing to do this, especially since I was about to be thrown into a tight job market even in the pandemic. However, a miracle happened and my department was able to make me a permanent staff member.

    I am really, really happy because I love my job and I don’t want to do anything else. However, I was in a meeting with my grandboss and another colleague regarding stall maintenance and she told me how pleased she was with my work and was really hoping that the stall maintenance position worked out as I would do really well there. However, now that I have my permanent job, I don’t want the focused stall maintenance position! I actually don’t like stall maintenance all that much–I enjoy the llama feeding aspects of my job the most and I deeply enjoy getting to do all aspects of llama care. The maintenance position was really a last ditch effort to keep me employed. However, it’s clear that my grandboss really sees this as part of my career plan and as I probably have the most experience with stall maintenance in my company and the newer aspects of it are novel in the wider profession, I’m realizing it would be expected for me to step into that role, especially since hiring for it probably wouldn’t be the easiest. My boss wants to keep me, but would also probably push me towards this role as there’s likely more pay as well and there’s no way for me to be promoted in my current department. I know I don’t have to take any job that I don’t want to, but is there a way I can gracefully go “no thanks” without causing conflict with grandboss? She’s been in my corner throughout my career at the company and it feels like I’d be rudely turning down a generous gift she gave me.

    1. The teapots are on fire*

      Just say very matter of factly, “I’m so grateful you’ve worked to create this new opportunity of pure stall maintenance for me. It turns out I’ve really grown to love this mixed job of llama feeding and stall maintenance because (blah-blah). No one could be more surprised than I am.” That way if she’s still working on it only for you, she can stop.

    2. linger*

      Possibly couch it in terms of cross-training? “I love that I have a mix of different duties in my current position, and it’s of net benefit to the company that we can all pitch in and cover for each other in all these areas.”

  55. Spessartine*

    I need some advice for how to handle a coworker who’s driving me batty. She is a lovely person and I really enjoy interacting with her on personal terms, but as a coworker I’m losing it. She makes careless mistakes, misreads instructions (or doesn’t read them at all), delays working on things until there’s only one or two days left for me to do my part, and responds to all my instructions on how to do things properly with “yeah” or “mmhmm”, then ignores them. She takes shared instruments and materials from their places and leaves them in her own workspace so I have to go hunting whenever I need them. (She uses them more frequently than I do–but not exclusively by any means.) She rarely cleans up after herself and leaves shared workspaces a mess.

    The difficulty is that while I trained her and am, experience-wise, her senior (by over a decade), I’m not a supervisor or manager or anything of the sort. Just a coworker. In some respects I don’t blame her for every mistake because there was a LOT to learn when she first started, but she never wrote down a single note and it’s been something like 6 months since she was hired. Obviously her work is not all bad–I wouldn’t call any of it stellar, but she gets the job done most of the time, just not in the best fashion. I’ve talked to my boss and he’s frustrated as well, but he’s pretty hands-off and it’s tough because he rarely interacts with her work directly. (Although there have been a few times he’s told her to come get him next time she does a certain thing so he can show her, and she ignored that too. He even got outright upset to her face about a certain thing the other week, and it had zero effect.) We had a lot of difficulty filling this position and had to let someone go right before her for being far worse. I’m worried that if we fire her we won’t be able to find someone else, and, well, I don’t want her to get fired! I like her quite a bit! I just want her to put more care into her work. She left her previous job to join us so that’s a guilt factor as well. I’m also a really non-confrontational, awkward person so I feel partially to blame for my hopefully gentle corrections having no effect.

    The other factor is that if she leaves, all the work she’s doing falls back onto my plate. That’s how it was before we hired her predecessor and it was a lot of stress–just too much for one person, even with my boss helping.

    I’ve always worked by myself before this so I’m at a loss. I know nobody likes to be told they’re doing it wrong–I certainly don’t!–so how do I effectively, kindly handle this?

    1. Aggresuko*

      I’d probably try to work around her/not need her as best I could, and obviously you’re going to end up with all her work on your plate anyway if she’s here or not here. Otherwise I don’t see that you can say anything and your boss trying clearly did no good.

      1. Spessartine*

        Unfortunately it’s impossible to work around her as she handles the first two stages of the manufacturing process and I handle most of the latter ones. 90% of what I work on has gone through her first. From a business perspective it doesn’t make sense for me to take over those first stages because almost anyone can do it with a little training. There are much more difficult stages that only I have the knowledge and technical skill for (aside from my boss, who to be honest isn’t as good as I am and frankly has other things on his plate that only HE can do).

        I think the ideal solution would be to hire someone with a few years of experience in the field rather than someone who has to be trained from scratch, but those people are unfortunately difficult to find in this area.

        1. Can Can Cannot*

          You need to make this your bosses problem. Whenever she does stages 1 & 2 incorrectly, send the work back to her, telling her that it is not ready for stage 3. CC your boss as necessary. If this delays a project, that’s on her, and on your boss. As long as you fix the problems, you boss will be fine with it.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      I think the question Alison would ask at this point is: are you sure she’s been really, explicitly told what she’s doing wrong? For example: “Although there have been a few times he’s told her to come get him next time she does a certain thing so he can show her, and she ignored that too.” Did he actually say “Come get me next time you do X, because I need to show you how to do it,” or was it soft enough that it sounded like an option? And when she did X wrong, did he say “I told you to get me before you do X, and I’m telling you now – DO NOT DO X AGAIN WITHOUT ME?” Because if you’re non-confrontational and gentle, and he’s the same, it can be pretty easy for someone who thinks she knows what she’s doing to just ignore your “helpful suggestions.”

      Also, let go of the idea that telling her she’s wrong isn’t kind or effective. I’m sure she doesn’t want to do her job incorrectly. Or get fired. The kindest thing is to give her what she needs at this point, which is very clear, explicit feedback.

      1. Spessartine*

        Yes, she has explicitly been told! He directly said “come see me next time so I can show you exactly how I want it done.” She did it by herself anyway (poorly). He told her again very directly that it needed to be done differently and that she needed to see him next time, but his tone was not very stern. I admit that I often couch my instructions with phrasing like “if that makes sense”, but I’m clear about what and how it needs to be done differently, and why. But some of her mistakes are complete common sense things that truly don’t need an explanation–think, making a teapot that has a crack or a hole in the side and shipping it off instead of remaking it, or just doing it right in the first place.

        Something else that frustrates me is that she either forgets or straight up lies about inconsequential things. I was explaining something to her and said “I know we don’t usually get X item already set up with Y in it–” and she said “Oh no, I put Y in just before lunch.” I’m 100% positive we got it with Y in it because I looked at it several days ago and noted that Y was different from what we usually do. Or I told her I wanted to be the only one doing a certain process from now on because of an issue with a previous order, and she said “But you did that order too.” I know I didn’t, because it was made with a different material than what I use. I can’t tell if she’s trying to wiggle out of responsibility or if she just pays so little attention to what she’s working on that she doesn’t remember the differences between orders (which is kind of a problem too).

        When my boss got upset the other week (regarding something he’d talked about to her several times) and pointed to X thing and said “This pisses me off” (with further explanation about why), she did fix X thing right away…and next week was right back to ignoring it. So I’m a little baffled. But what you say about the kindest thing being clear and explicit feedback definitely strikes a chord! I’ll make sure I’m firm and crystal clear about things going forward.

    3. Not Fun At All*

      OMG, I swear that was my co-worker for the past 3.5 years. My boss was a lot like yours. I was sooooo frustrated, but figured a body was better than nothing. She put in her notice, and during the time I was working alone, by blood pressure went down and I was so much happier. I am still finding her mistakes, she clearly couldn’t do the job well. We finally got a replacement and she has been here for about 6 weeks, and does a better job than old co-worker ever did!

  57. Eldritch Office Worker*

    Unrelated to my ranty question, a PSA: Our top candidate almost lost her spot by taking really bad advice from her grad school career center and if she takes the job her judgment is going to be in question out of the gate. I can’t be specific for anonymity but yall – career centers are terrible. As AAM readers be a pal to your graduating friends and turn them away from them.

    1. ecnaseener*

      On an unrelated forum today I saw an upcoming grad being steered to their college career counseling center by a well-meaning person who was all excited about his center helping him convert his resume to functional :( I sent some AAM links to general job hunting tips but didn’t want to be all “well ACTUALLY Alison Green disagrees with that advice” so hopefully they will find it on their own!

    2. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I sort of feel like you need to share the advice or not comment, “someone said something wrong” is sort of a half-baked comment to read. I just read this three times to see if I missed the actual thing. If someone gives out bad advice, I’m not sure you need to protect them from being “outed.” Most advice is generic enough that it won’t out anyone to begin with

      1. ecnaseener*

        I sort of feel like you can ignore posts that don’t interest you, instead of telling people they need to not comment if it’s not going to meet your personal standards…

    3. KoiFeeder*

      Oooh, was this the “male interviewers get alcohol, female interviewers get chocolate” advice my career center gave me?

  58. Two Chairs, One to Go*

    How do you handle being really busy when the rest of your team isn’t? Everyone is surprised when they find out how much work I’m doing because they have too much down time. I talked to my manager about redistributing work, but the response was that it’s not possible right now.

    I’ve been job searching but I don’t know how to hang in there. I’d love perspective/suggestions.

    1. braindump*

      1) document your tasks. If/when you do leave, you’ll need do this anyway. This will reduce barrier to entry for someone else to do your tasks if they see there is an SOP.

      2) Are you working more than 40 hrs a week? Stop that. Say “I have time to do X or Y but not both. Which needs doing first?”. This works regardless of what your team is doing since you can’t control them.

      3) Do your “surprised” coworkers seem willing to help? Is it that they don’t have the same skills or is your boss actively keeping them away? Sometimes it’s better to ask for forgiveness and just take the reins and train someone else, especially if you have a skill they want to learn.

      1. Two Chairs, One to Go*

        It’s hard to explain without getting into specifics. I was hoping to redistribute work to others but it’s not an option right now. But no, I’m not working more than 40 hours a week thankfully.

    2. Lana Kane*

      Did they give a reason why it’s not possible right now? It could just be that Manager doesn’t feel like taking on the task of figuring out how to completely redistribute work. Can a compromise be reached with your boss where you find some things you can delegate to other team members, with the goal of using that data to figure out how to more permanently distribute work? (The caveat being, of course, that Manager may not get around to their end of the bargain.)

  59. Mourning a job*

    I took a job with lower pay and bowed out of an interview where I was the top candidate where the salary would have been considerably higher (~30-40k). The one with lower pay/ I accepted was a manager I have worked with before and I have heard great things about the people on her current team. I know in my heart it was the right decision and I know I can grow a lot more over there, but I can’t help but struggle with it, knowing I could be making considerably more money and potentially set myself up for a better financial future, especially in this housing / inflation market.

    How can I make peace with my decision?

    1. ecnaseener*

      Remind yourself that if you had taken the higher-paying job, you would be second-guessing that decision too – probably struggling even more than you are now, yearning for the job you really wanted. The second-guessing is an unavoidable part of being human.

    2. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      Reminding yourself that your sanity and having a job that you like (for the most part) is worth more in the long run. And something along the line of ‘people don’t leave jobs, they leave bad management.’ Also start looking within your new company for the tracks/ways that get you to the salary level you want and put your focus on that.

  60. NDMolly*

    No questions, just venting. Even in this age of job seekers having more power I’ve had two annoying incidents when applying for jobs this week. One HR rep had gotten in touch with me to set up a phone screen, and after I’d replied with my availability she wrote back the next day and said sorry, the team actually picked an internal candidate. I know that happens but the way they handled it just shows poor communication. (ironic applying to be on a communications team)

    And then on an application for another position, I encountered this: “At CompanyName we like to be transparent. Please share with us your target salary expectations.” Um, how about you actually be transparent then instead of just expecting transparency from me? I’ve been trying for a long time to leave my job at a small company for better pay/benefits/opportunities but maybe the corporate BS isn’t worth it.

    1. Can't think of a funny name*

      Oh that’s awesome…we like to be transparent…but you go first. ;)

  61. baby Fed*

    How abnormal was my initial hiring process for a GS position within the DoD? I applied for and was rejected a week later, but then 2 months later was given a tentative and the firm offer which i accepted. I did not interview at all, and only sent in my resume and other documents through USAJobs. I literally met my boss and coworkers on my first day. I ask because i am currently applying for a GS9 position and don’t know what to expect moving forward. I’m not sold on the position (I have a 8 month old and a good work/life balance is crucial to me, and its not guaranteed in this new position) so i want to interview if only to get a sense its a good fit. Can anyone give me insights on what will happen if my resume and cover letter push me forward in contention?

    1. sdog*

      I’m not familiar with the DoD specifically, but my understanding about hiring within the feds generally is that after applying, the agency will create a referral list of the top candidates to send on to the hiring manager/department. At that point, the hiring department can select from the list without interviews but if they interview one, they have to interview all (or at least a sufficient number from the top of the referral list to demonstrate fairness). I don’t know — I’ve never heard of anyone getting picked up without an interview unless it’s an internal hire and they already know the candidate. I know it’s been hard for many agencies to get good candidates lately, but I still think that you have a fairly good chance of being asked to interview first if you’re in consideration for a position (i.e., I don’t think your initial hiring process is the norm).

      1. Former Retail Manager*

        Current Fed….not with DOD. Can confirm that the hiring process sdog detailed is the norm and being hired without an interview at all is very unusual for an external hire. There are some external positions that are filled via “direct hiring authority” but this usually means that they will do on the spot interviews and the process is expedited.

        Good luck w/ your GS 9 application & hopefully position!

    2. OtterB*

      My husband recently got a new GS position as a DoD civilian moving from one DoD branch to another. He had what he thought was a phone screen, and received an offer after that with no additional interview. His phone interview was also with his prospective grandboss. It wasn’t clear to him until he actually started that his supervisor’s position was empty. (It’s since been filled.) He had doubts about taking a position without ever talking to his supervisor, but he wanted out of where he was, and it’s worked out okay.

  62. Catcher in the Rye*

    I made an embarrassing job application faux pas yesterday and I am torn on what to do. I’ve been applying to multiple college academic advising positions and in the cover letter I submitted yesterday, I missed one area where I listed the wrong department name (instead, it listed the department name of a different job I applied to days prior). As soon as I noticed, I withdrew my application in the application portal thinking it would allow me to reapply or edit my application materials, but this system does not. I can only withdraw or reactivate my application but I cannot reapply or create a new account (the system login is tied to my university login as this position is within the same school I currently work for).

    Do I just accept that I won’t get an interview and withdraw my application so that no one sees it? Alternatively, I can leave my application active and likely not get an interview while also looking unprofessional. My partner suggested that I email the hiring manager to admit my mistake and attach a corrected cover letter, but I feel that would call attention to it and would be a bad first impression to make with the hiring committee. I’m really interested in this job but I think I need to cut my losses here.

    1. Sunshine*

      Can you feign technical issues and email your information to the hiring manager with no mention of the faux pas? Just pretend you’re having trouble with the system?

      1. Sunshine*

        Actually, it doesn’t even have to be pretend. “I withdrew my application to make some updates and can’t figure out a way to attach the new version. Here it is!”

    2. Pots*

      I wouldn’t think letting the hiring manager know and sending a corrected cover letter would make such a grievous impression! Hiring committees are (hopefully) made up of people who understand you’re one, too, and I’d guess the manager is probably not going to feel the need to do anything but slot your corrected letter in and keep the app going through the committee mill.

    3. Coenobita*

      I think it’s 100% fine to email a corrected cover letter! I got my current job after giving the WRONG PHONE NUMBER for my first interview (so I was sitting there waiting for my interviewer to call me and they were… calling someone who wasn’t me, because I messed up my own phone number). When we eventually connected, the interviewer was like “oh haha I recently got a new phone number too” and I have been in this job for 3+ years now.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I did this once and submitted a new application under an account tied to a different email address ;)

    5. A Library Person*

      As someone who has seen this happen when reviewing applications, I wouldn’t be bothered at all and I would give your application full weight. We know candidates are often applying to multiple positions, and what is important to me is that you care enough to get it right eventually and that you can speak specifically to this job if/when you are asked for an actual interview. If the cover letter otherwise addresses this specific job and you simply messed up the name, it shouldn’t be a big deal.

  63. Sharkie*

    It is interesting to me to see the difference between Boomers and Millennials when it comes to being laid off. My dad who is 65 got laid off due to a merger yesterday for the first time in his 40 year career. He is still coming to grips with it and doesn’t understand why, because in his mind layoffs don’t happen to top performers (He just got a company award for excellence and leadership 2 weeks ago). Myself on the other hand have been working professionally for 8 years and have been laid off 3 times, all for different reasons. Yeah it sucks and hurts but it happens to even the best workers.

    I guess in some fields even if you have been in the work force, you can be out of touch with the realities of today’s working world

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I wonder if there’s also a gender difference? Identity is so strongly tied to work for Boomer men. My (Boomer) mom has had female friends her own age laid off, & they often just felt relieved. Because the stress was off them, & their jobs weren’t that great anyway.

      1. Sharkie*

        That makes so much sense! Especially with the “breadwinner” mindset of that generation. I just feel so bad, for him. It is a tricky age and he never wants to retire.

      1. Sharkie*

        True, I could be reading into this too much. I just found it interesting. In the past when my friends or myself got laid off our parents always asked ” Did you do anything wrong?” so it could also be a cultural thing.

      2. Lady_Lessa*

        I agree with you. I’m a Boomer, and the first lay off was a shock, but sometimes later ones were almost a relief. Especially if I saw the signs and was already job hunting.

        FYI, I’m female and always self supporting. Never found the right partner, and enjoy my singleness.

      3. OtterB*

        Agree it’s at least partly an individual experience thing. My husband is your dad’s age. The first time he was laid off, after he’d been with the company 17 years, he found it devastating. The next time was more a firing than a layoff and that had its own emotional baggage. Then he ended up with a series of contract positions that kept ending early for things not his fault at all, and a startup that went out of business, and a job with a really toxic boss and one that was a great company but just a bad fit for him, and at some point we’d just look at each other, shrug, and said, “Crap, here we go again.”

        65 is a hard age, though. My husband was more like 60 at his last involuntary job loss. In that respect moving into a federal position was a good thing; at least in his engineering specialty they really didn’t care about his age.

    3. Spearmint*

      I think this varies more by industry/company than generation. In some industries, frequent restructurings and layoffs are normal, but in others they’re pretty rare. If your in the latter kind of industry, you’ll probably have a harder time dealing with it.

      1. RagingADHD*

        Yup. If there were massive layoffs every 2-3 years in his industry he’d be used to the concept by now.

    4. ThatGirl*

      I got laid off for the first time in 2017 and got sent to “outplacement services” – I was in my mid-30s at the time and it stung but it wasn’t a huge shock or anything. But the various meetings I went to had a lot of dudes in their 50s and 60s who had been laid off from 20, 30-year careers and were foundering. So a lot of the sessions definitely seemed more aimed at them not knowing what to do with themselves.

    5. Everything Bagel*

      Someone very close to me also was recently laid off at around the same age. He was pretty bummed and felt like he was suddenly useless and they didn’t like him. I said, they like you, they just don’t want to pay you.

    6. AllTheBirds*

      To me, it sounds more like shock at being laid off for the first time in a 40-yr career than a generational thing.

      1. Becky*

        In my experience though a 40 year career at one company is much more rare in younger generations-and not just because you haven’t been in the workforce for that long–just switching jobs (whether because of layoffs or something else) seems a lot more common in the younger generations. I’m 38 and am approaching my 10 year anniversary at my company–among many of my friends that’s unusually long.

    7. PollyQ*

      I’m only 10 years younger than your father, and my experience has been VERY different. I’ve seen good people get laid off starting from the earliest days of my career. I think he just got lucky in his path.

    8. Pine Lily*

      Stopping by to chime in that there are industries out there which prefer to hire older more experienced workers. If your Dad doesn’t want to retire and is in the mindset to be receptive towards a job, which may not pay as well as his career, but is looking for supplemental income he may want to look into public sector jobs, specifically parks and rec, or other land management positions. I’ve worked with many baby boomers who have left their former careers (layoffs, retirement, etc.) and who were looking to get into the “fun” outdoors or equipment running jobs now; jobs that they weren’t able to pursue as careers when they were younger because of the lower pay scale.

  64. Aggresuko*

    I would like to note that we’ve had ALL of our temps quit to find permanent jobs in the last week, and we’ve had three permanent staff quit to get new jobs, in the last few months. And then another one’s out sick. I am literally the only one left and I am going out of my mind and wishing for death every day and I know I’m going to get screamed at and in trouble for not being able to do every single thing. (By the clientele, not management, but our clientele is vicious at times and I actively expect that someday someone is going to (again) campaign to get me fired.) They are trying to hire, but at this point it’s just me and the two most recent hires left.

    Not asking for advice because there isn’t any, just venting. Meanwhile my boss’s solution is to try to hire another manager to take over managing me. I don’t know what to say to that one and won’t believe it until it happens. I don’t even care any more, honestly.

  65. Lrrrr*

    This is a pretty random question I had from years ago, but it just popped up in my head for some reason (and my friends’ and family’s responses were strongly split iirc): in my early twenties in the early 2000s in the northeast US, I walked into a bagel shop because of a “help wanted” sign in the window and asked the person I was directed to about it. They responded that it was actually for a manager position and there were no other positions open.

    Some folks said that that was clearly a lie and no one advertised for a manager position using a help wanted sign in the window, or that that type of sign implies at least one open position behind the counter or on the floor (cashier, stocker, etc.), and that there may have been other factors at play in being told otherwise. Others said why not or that it didn’t seem unusual. So… I’m curious on thoughts here. Unusual? Or common for the time?

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      If you walked into the shop and said “I’d like to apply for the job” and they said “actually it’s a manager position” without asking you any other questions, I’d say something else is going on. But otherwise, I don’t think a Help Wanted sign means a particular type of help is wanted. I do think it’s a really bad way to look for job candidates, though.

      1. Lrrr*

        Thank you! It was… much like you described. I asked about the sign, was told “actually, that’s for a manager position”, no other questions and the person I talked to saw me out the door of the shop without any other comment that I recall. I figured that that was within bounds of normal…

        That’s probably what’s been lingering here. Tbh I don’t even remember if I told anyone much of that part, I think the first people I told said the sign for that position was odd in the first place and that’s where I ended up concentrating.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Hmmm. If you looked like a teenager, I suppose they could have assumed you were too young to have the necessary experience. But beyond that… yeah, it’s odd.

          1. Charlotte Lucas*

            This! If you didn’t seem to be at least 18 or 21 (depending on their policy), they might have assumed you were not eligible for the position. Otherwise, something else was going on.

            1. Lrrr*

              Looking young was a factor mentioned by those who found the sign odd, as well as possibly not presenting myself sharply enough (I already had a part-time “adult job” but it had a very casual dress code and a laidback hiring and management style); and honestly, it being racial was heavily implied by one family member (and looking back, not too out of the question).

              Tbh, and to give some benefit of the doubt, I could see myself stopping at a step in a similar way instead of asking follow-up questions to get a full picture of something or thinking of a graceful end comment when mentally occupied by something else, so all this has helped me consider that, oddly enough – thanks again!

    3. braindump*

      Hmm – maybe they meant a shift manager where you will probably still be at the counter but with more responsibility like cash counting/opening/closing/scheduling…. I doubt it was for like, regional manager where you don’t interact with many customers.

      That said – I would still find it weird. I’d expect a window “help wanted” to mean minimal training, entry level job.

      1. braindump*

        And I agree with Rusty that if they just said “it’s a manager role” to cut you off without further questions – that’s weird.

  66. cactus lady*

    Came across this icebreaker question that went well and brought some hilarious answers:

    “What does your family think you do all day?”

    I wasn’t sure how it would go over but it was a hoot! Recommend, as long as your team has generally collegial relationships.

    2. Coenobita*

      Oh the answers to this can be really fun! My first job after undergrad was an analysis/project management role at a consulting firm, but my now in-laws were convinced that I counted lightbulbs for a living (I had been loaned out to another department to support some energy efficiency audits). Meanwhile, my coworker’s brother (who I knew socially) always joked about how his sister and I were professional color-coders.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        When I was an editor, my grandmother was convinced I was a bookkeeper. I mean, I was involved in books, but…

    3. Satellite Comms*

      This one is a running joke in my industry. I manage the spacecraft that provide tv/internet via satellite (say Dish TV). Every extended family member think I go around installing antennas on people’s houses.

      1. Gatomon*

        Hah! I’m a network engineer at a smallish ISP and as soon as “network” comes out of my mouth, everyone’s eyes glaze over like I’ve started explaining quantum theory. No one wants to know how the sausage is made. At best I think they think I code or maybe build computers. I’m like UPS for your data; I just make sure it gets there. I don’t care at all what’s in the box or what you do with it once I drop it off.

    4. OtterB*

      Long time ago, on a project for an electrical power generation plant, I had a coworker who had worked hard to teach his 6-year-old that what came out of a cooling tower wasn’t smoke, it was steam, like the stuff clouds were made of. So the kid was convinced that dad’s job was making clouds.

  67. Albeira Dawn*

    People who work for “mission-oriented” orgs that aren’t non-profits: what red or green flags should I be on the lookout for in this interview process?

    Say I’m currently working in mac-and-cheese production, like at Kraft or something, and I want to shift to mac-and-cheese production at somewhere like Annie’s that has a strong emphasis on organic and natural foods. This isn’t my exact situation, but it’s a pretty good analog.

    I’d imagine that some red flags might be similar to non-profits, like an expectation for long hours because “it’s for the greater good!” or asking people to wear many hats they’re not qualified or wanting to wear.

    I’m really, really, REALLY excited about this position and this firm, but I want to make sure I’m thinking through all the possible downsides and not letting idealism cloud my judgement.

    1. urguncle*

      You may want to do some research into their profitability if you’re concerned about being asked to sacrifice for the “greater good,” but I would personally be more concerned about their marketing vs. actual behavior. Are they advertising as “organic” and “earth-friendly” while the CEOs own private jets and massive fossil-fuel burning yachts? What are their brand expectations when it comes to your personal choices? For example, a company I worked for had a customer that was a mid-range clothing brand marketed primarily to teens, but all corporate employees, regardless of age or tenure at the company, had to wear that clothing brand to work every day.

    2. quill*

      You absolutely should be looking for greenwashing – is this company’s product deemed “greener” because the resource exploitation problems it causes are further away / more poorly understood? (See things like replacing cow milk sourced from places with a lot of water and grass with california almond milk and claiming that it’s “greener” when it’s really draining aquifers and contributing to california drought, an issue less widely understood than “cow farts have methane in them.”)

    3. Siege*

      Find out whether there is labor organizing happening and how the company is handling this. I know you say the Kraft/Annie’s isn’t your real case, but workers at Annie’s have requested a customer boycott over human rights violations. Doing some low-level googling can tell you a lot.

      You probably won’t get much out of it if the people you interview with are all committed to lying, but if anyone offers to talk to you about the position, take them up on that. I’ve been doing that while on the hiring committee for an org with a very specific culture. No one has taken me up on this, and the hires (all of whom I recommended against) are struggling.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      How enthuasiastic are they about constantly talking about the mission and using buzzwords? I’d say the more they talk about the mission and make it seem as if you have to be obsessed with the mission, the bigger a red flag that is. Should they live up their mission? Sure. Should the people who work there care about the mission? That’s also fine. But when all people can do is talk about “the mission” and not the actual day-to-day work that gets said mission accomplished, the org may be 1) ineffectual (all talk, no action) or 2) a cult (or both 1 and 2).

    5. pancakes*

      It’s not so much an interview thing, but read up on the particular company. Annie’s is actually a great example for this because despite their image, their workers have a lot of complaints right now and some are calling for a boycott. I’ll link to an article about it separately.

    6. BadCultureFit*

      I worked for a for-profit publisher with a super strong mission (literally printed on the carpets…spoiler alert). Because it was authentic, it was amazing. Everyone, no matter their role, believed wholeheartedly that their job was getting books into the hands of kids.

      I’d say, look for that level of authenticity. Maybe ask about how the mission shows up in company values and culture, does it really lie at the heart of every business decision, etc.

  68. GRA*

    We had a new Department Assistant start less than two months ago, and I’m ready to run screaming from the building. She is technically great at her job, but personally I am already at BEC level. Some examples:

    She told me that it was dumb for me to go on vacation to a theme park with my kids and that she felt sorry for me that I had to go on vacation with teenage girls (my kids).

    When things annoy her (which seems to be often/daily) instead of addressing the issue she will stomp around the building, slamming her office door, until someone asks her what’s wrong. She’ll then complain at length to the person and ask them to send an email to the offender asking them to change their behavior.

    In team meetings (still on ZOOM) she’ll tell us all exactly how we should be doing things, with no regard to any back story or history. She told me personally that she thinks everything our office produces is bad quality (we’re in communications) and uninspiring.

    I work in an office where our leader is very adverse to confrontation or firing people, so I know my only options are to a) suck it up, b) hope she quits soon or c) find a new job myself. But it really sucks because I’ve loved my job and my team before now! Any other advice on how to deal with someone like this?

    1. Rebel Without A Blog*

      I think the best short-term plan is decide that she is a weird alien creature and you are a normal human being followed by a nature documentary crew. Summon an accented (mine’s always British and an intense whisper, RIP David Attenborough) internal monologue that says something like “once again the creature is expressing her displeasure with juvenile behavior; see how the adults of the species are avoiding her and refusing to take the bait. Oh no! She’s just cornered Dave from Sales. Will he be willing to send the complaint email she demands to hide from the results of her prevarications? We’ll find out after the break,” and then do some work. Obviously you can’t devote hours of headspace to her, but I’ve found that amusing myself in this way acts like a steam valve for my annoyance, releasing it when it gets too high, so that I stay out of BEC levels. That way, if you do have to end up saying something to her, it comes out professionally (“Excuse me, did you just say -everything- we produce is of poor quality? I hope you can realize that the rest of us here are liable to be offended when you say things like that instead of keeping them to yourself.”) and not ‘the dam has burst’-ly (“AWWW, HECK NO, LADY, YOU ARE NOT GETTING AWAY WITH THAT TODAY!”)

      1. GRA*

        I LOVE this idea. I will try it out next week and try to also control my internal giggling as I narrate.

      2. Pomegranate*

        You had me going with RIP David Attenborough! He’s still alive! Don’t scare us like that please!!!

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, still alive, and still working! Or if not, he’s just retired, his most recent credit is from 2020. Not bad for 95.

    2. ecnaseener*

      Well, you left out option d) push back. Or maybe you were thinking of that as a variant of sucking it up.

      You don’t need to sink to her level of rudeness, but you can absolutely say things like “That’s pretty rude” “Can you please stop stomping? It’s really distracting” “If you have ideas for improving our work, take them to Manager – I don’t find it helpful to hear that you just think it’s bad.”

      It’s not for everyone, so if you’d rather just tune her out then of course that’s fine too.

      2. Kathenus*

        I really like these suggestions.

        I also want to add that even if you think your manager is nonconfrontational and won’t intervene, I think you should escalate the work impact of these issues. Sometimes we avoid doing so if we don’t think it’ll be effective but in a way that contributes to the overall nonconfrontational management culture because it can be tacitly endorsing it by default. As others have mentioned, being (professionally) the squeaky wheel to your manager can make it more uncomfortable for them to do nothing than to step in and address the problem (you know, actually manage).

    3. Lana Kane*

      I’m just wondering what people say to her when she asks them to send those emails!

    4. PollyQ*

      If you’ve been discussing things in your personal life with her, stop completely. She can’t comment on what she doesn’t know about. If she’s still dishing out insults, go with a neutral, “I’d rather not discuss my personal life,” followed by a subject change.

  69. Oreo*

    What should I do about a newly hired coworker who means well, but just does not retain any info whatsoever?

    NH and I work at a small manufacturing company in a very niche field with a very technical background. He takes very detailed notes, takes a million screenshots for his reference, and has over 30 years of industry experience. But he keeps asking questions that make me wonder what the heck he did in those 30 years. He will even ask obvious questions akin to a web developer asking “What does CSS mean?” (ie something very simple and extremely relevant to the field)

    I have been as patient as I can with them, but it’s wearing thin and I don’t have the time to give comprehensive instructions each time. If I tell them to reference previous notes or look any other documentation I’ve made, they flounder for a bit then asks again for clarification, or they tell me they can’t find it.

    My manager is aware of the situation but hasn’t taken concrete action to help NH or give them a PIP. Manager and I have talked about getting NH additional outside training (Which I would be happy to give if I had the time and light enough workload – but that’s simply not possible) and that’s about it. Is there anything else I can do, or is it all in my manager’s court?

    1. Gan Ainm*

      Sounds like manager isn’t acting on it because it’s not their problem yet, because you’ve been solving it for them up until now. Time to return to sender. Alison has covered similar stuff, and I think her scripts would generally go something like this –

      Next time NH asks for someone very basic or that you’ve already explained I’d say one of these:
      Basic /foundational knowledge for your role (sounding confused): “The ABC’s? That’s pretty integral/foundational to our role, I think that’s going to require going farther back than I have time for right now unfortunately, but you can check with [manager name].”

      Already answered: “we actually talked about that previously / on Wednesday/ when we went over Y, it should be in your notes.” And if NH comes back after that dating they can’t find it, “I’m pretty swamped so I can’t go over that again, you’ll have to check with [manager name].” (You might even want to say “I’ve noticed you keep asking me to go back over material we’ve already covered, I’m happy to train you but we’ll never make the progress needed if I have to keep retraining you in the same material, please make sure you’re referring back to your notes.”)

      1. Oreo*

        Thank you Gan Ainm! In hindsight it does make sense after you pointed out how my manager probably isn’t aware of the severity of NH’s problems.

        It will take some getting used to saying no – I’m a people-pleaser by nature – but I will try out those scripts, especially the one in the last paragraph.

    2. Super Duper Anon*

      I was in this this situation. Coworker was very experienced in the industry with lots of contract work with the tools we were currently using (although we were in the process of switching) so we thought she would need little help getting started with our current process and then be able to train her along with our other team members when we switched over to the new processes and tools. Nope. Struggled with the tool she said she had used many times before, couldn’t retain information even though she took notes and recorded meetings, and took screenshots. Also asked very basic questions (how to print a PDF file open in Adobe Reader) which were second nature to the rest of us. I had to step in a few times when I was able (and when my manger directed me to help in certain situations) but otherwise I left it in my manager’s court as she was aware of the issues. Eventually the coworker was let go.

  70. Rebel Without A Blog*

    I’ve got a pretty broad and open question, so thanks in advance for any help. Bottom line up front, my spouse and I just bought a tap room, and I’m leaving my professional job to manage it in a few months. I used to be a bartender, so I’m not entirely unfamiliar with the service industry, but all my management experience has been in a corporate or government environment. I feel confident in my ability to handle things like inventory control, service quality, legal aspects, and knowing the product, but far less confident in the right way to go about HR-esque matters (should we have an employee handbook? a safety plan I have new servers sign before their first shift? how should I evaluate candidates for server positions?) and maintaining appropriate manager/employee boundaries in what will be a -far- more relaxed and casual environment. And I -really- want to avoid becoming the sort of nightmare small family business owner we hear so much about here. AAM commentariat, I appreciate any and all advice. Thanks!

    1. Miel*

      I am a huge safety fan, so I love the idea of discussing safety upfront! It doesn’t have to be 100 pages long, but a one- or two- page description of safety procedures, dress code, calling-out-sick procedure, etc could be nice.

      There are a lot of new things to navigate here. Any chance you could find a mentor in hospitality management? A training course? Take a job as a restaurant manager for a few months?

      Best of luck!

      1. Rebel Without A Blog*

        Thanks for your input. Nowhere I’ve ever bartended had anything even vaguely formal for employee guidance, but almost every one of my corporate day jobs did, and it’s good to know there might be value in taking some (abbreviated) cues from my current work forward to the new role.

        I do have a mentor; one of my old bosses from when I was a bartender. He’s very busy, but was gratified to be asked, so I want to be respectful of his time. He is going to be an especially good resource for dealing with our (small and quirky but also red-tape-loving) local government.

        Thanks again!

        1. Becky*

          Caveat on everything I am about to say: I hardly know anything about bars. These are just basic thoughts.

          * Clear guidelines for what employee responsibilities are with regards to patrons besides just regular wait service–who has had too much and needs to be cut off, how to handle making sure patrons don’t drive drunk, removing a patron who possibly is drunk, belligerent, aggressive etc., protecting vulnerable patrons
          *Process for reporting and handling a patron harassing an employee or other patrons. How to remove said patron.

          I have heard of some bars having a code phrase that women can use to notify bar staff of a situation in which they don’t feel safe. Notifications to women about this are usually placed in the restroom and staff are notified what phrases to look for and what to do when they are used. The most common version of this I see is asking for an “Angel Shot.” If you are going to do such a thing, establish the procedure and train your staff so they will know what to do.

          1. Rebel Without A Blog*

            Good things to think about, thanks. I want to make sure my employees are empowered to keep themselves safe.

      2. MaryLoo*

        Hope this isn’t too late in the thread.
        It’s important to be very clear about what is allowed, like no drinking alcohol when working, not eating behind the bar, when to take breaks, hand washing, keeping the work area tidy, who busses tables, etc, dress code, etc. Who restocks behind the bar? Who makes sure there’s a supply of clean glasses? Do not assume that your staff knows any of this.

        Years ago I was a waiter a local restaurant (small regional chain – I think they had 5 or 6 locations.
        They had a training program that assumed their waitstaff knew nothing about food safety, cleanliness, etc. All new staff had to watch a PowerPoint presentation that told you things like when and how to wash your hands, how to set a table, how to handle silverware, and showed examples of right and wrong ( like, hold the spoon by the handle, not the bowl. The presentation did all this in a very matter-of-fact way and didn’t talk down to people.
        It also included rules like when you could and couldn’t take your break, how to handle the check and money, etc.

        These are the areas that can make or break a pub.

        1. Rebel Without A Blog*

          Thanks for listing some really practical places for there to be clear rules. I appreciate the insight.

    2. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

      I think employee handbooks and safety plans are great! When I have walked a new employee through them at a small business where it may have felt overly formal, I framed it as a way to make sure that everyone here is on the same page about expectations. As an employee, I feel less anxious when I know what the dress code is instead of hoping that I don’t show up for work one day only to be told I look too casual or something.
      Re: employee boundaries: fraternization is so common in bars that it would be smart to just assume it will happen, and have a reasonable plan in place. This could mean a policy that people cannot date someone who supervises them, and that if employees are dating, they need to disclose it to management (without punitive action) and ensure that behavior at work is completely professional at all times.
      Re: evaluating servers and other staff: It might be worth coming up with a framework of expectations initially, so you have something to compare your staff to. This could be something like, “you are expected to support your coworkers so we all succeed – if a coworker is swamped with an especially demanding table, check on their other tables to see if they need water.” I also appreciate it when bars and restaurants are opaque about their tip policy, such as stating on the menu that all tips are pooled and split between the servers, bartenders, and dishwashers so that all of your employees can be rewarded by their success.
      Good luck with your new venture!!

      1. Rebel Without A Blog*

        So I replied on Friday but it was apparently eaten, sorry. Thanks for the long comment with lots of good thoughts. Most useful is the acknowledgement (which I implied by did not state) that such things “felt overly formal” but were still of value. And I hadn’t really thought about dress code at all, so that was a great add to my list of things to codify (not in a problematic/formal way).
        .
        Tip policy is important to me too, and I always ask about it places. The idea of putting it up front in a menu or such is new to me but I see the appeal for sure.
        .
        Thanks again for lots of things to think about!

  71. Eff Walsingham*

    My question doesn’t appear to have posted yet, so I’ll try again. Apologies if I’m just not seeing it for some reason.

    I am seeking reliable resources for past rates for cryptocurrency transactions. During the decade when I wasn’t working as a bookkeeper, cryptocurrency has emerged as a way people are donating to charities, etc. When I was hired as a bookkeeper in February, my boss sent me a few links to some basic “This is crypto” videos, but I still feel out of my depth. Last week when I asked point blank, “Where should I be getting the rates for the last fiscal year’s transactions?” he basically replied, “I just use whatever site comes up first on my search engine.”

    It is possible that his search engine is more useful than mine. Most of my googling on the subject of the various cryptocurrencies we use merely leads to get-rich-quick schemes, and articles about avoiding get-rich-quick schemes. I don’t need to get rich this week; I just want to keep my skills relevant going forward.

    Any useful resources will be greatly appreciated.

    1. quill*

      Oh god, no advice but great sympathy. Dealing professionally with that can of worms must be the bane of finance people’s lives right now. (My accountant complained about it during tax season once she figured out that I know how it works and am not fond of it for environmental reasons as well as practical ones. It’s apparently a very long process to do taxes on it.)

    2. Miel*

      No advice but more sympathy!

      I’m volunteering at a VITA (volunteer tax prep) site, and we are required by IRS regulations to turn away anyone with cryptocurrency transactions. It’s a bummer to turn people away! And it also saves us the hassle of learning about cryptocurrency.

      1. quill*

        *snerk* I shouldn’t laugh, as I know the vast majority of people in crypto are essentially being conned one way or the other, but “the hassle of learning about cryptocurrency” is always funny to me because 1) it’s truly a hassle, 2) the current boom has shown how much of it is flimflam that you don’t actually need to know about beyond the fact that 95% of it’s claims are false.

        (And I say this pretty confidently for someone who is not actually in computers or banking only because I had a college elective course that turned out to cover the entire basics of how it works, and also did a heck of a lot of reading when it first boomed.)

        1. Siege*

          Crypto and NFTs and blockchain all have one thing in common: if they worked, the porn industry and furries would have turned them into common consumer products five years ago, and Twitter wouldn’t be flooded with bot accounts trying to hype people into their thing. It’s Herbalife for dudebros.

          1. quill*

            Yes, but try telling that to anyone who thinks they know more about how encryption works than you because they took a course on javascript once and you only took a MATH course about encryption.

            I mean, blockchain started out as a thought experiment that sort of worked when you only had 40 people using it, and then the originator found out that you couldn’t scale it up because the processing power it needed was exponential… and somehow nobody involved in finance, legislation, or programming has come out strongly against this mess.

            1. quill*

              Anyone with a wide popular or regulatory reach, I mean. Several people have written about what a scam it is from several angles.

            2. Alexis Rosay*

              It is pretty baffling given the obsession people int the computer science world have with speed, scale, and efficiency of algorithms—apparently none of that applies to blockchain.

              1. quill*

                According to my dad, who has programmed for a living, it’s because project managers don’t know how programming works. Which I can only assume is accurate, because project managers don’t always understand things like if you’re working with living organisms you can’t alter their time scale, etc.

              1. Eff Walsingham*

                I would like to thank you all for the sympathy and the laughs. Secretly I’ve been worried that I’m the only person who doesn’t understand this stuff because I’m *cough*ty years old now, and possibly not one of the cool kids anymore.

  72. Kodamasa*

    Does anyone have any advice about supervising in-person staff while working remotely?

    I’ve been 90% remote since COVID for health reasons, even after everyone else is back in the office. I currently supervise student staff (higher ed) but am moving into a position that also includes supervising professional staff. I’ve accepted I will need to go in more often, but besides that, what can I do to be an effective manager when I’m remote and my employee isn’t?

    1. sdog*

      My team at my old job went fully remote during the pandemic and the two things that my supervisor did that really helped me were 1) weekly team meetings and 2) weekly individual check-ins. I thinks she would have done these two things even in person, which adds to my general belief that honestly, the things that make a good supervisor are the same whether in person or remote. But when remote, it just took on even greater significance. I really felt that she knew what I was working on each week because we checked in about them regularly during our weekly one on ones. I’d use the opportunity to raise questions that came up during the week. Some weeks, when it seemed, for example, like I was overloaded compared to other members of the team, she’d suggest shifting some of the work around to balance things out from one week to the next. And if things were light, we’d use the time to just chit chat about weekend plans.

      The group meetings were great too because they were the only times we saw each other during the week. Our supervisor would use the time for general reminders/touch base about larger group projects, and then we’d do a quick round robin to either discuss an interesting issue we’d come across during the week or ask for team guidance. Sometimes, again, during light weeks, we’d just share a good book we’d read or generally chitchat.

      I don’t know what your team dynamic is like already, but we all used Skype frequently too, for questions that we might previously have walked into each other’s offices for, and for me, I think my manager’s general responsiveness over Skype and email went a long way towards her seeming present and involved.

      1. Kodamasa*

        Thank you! Weekly 1-on-1s are something our department does regularly, and we all use Teams pretty regularly as well. I’m glad those are helpful!

    2. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

      I personally love a very quick touch base first thing in the morning via Zoom chat – it just feels like a small thing to get everyone on the same page even if we are all working on different things. IE, “Good morning! Just a reminder that Fergus is out today, and all Teapot requisition requests need to be in today. Regina and Bart, I saw you completed the edits for the Pottery Production Overhaul – thank you so much for your hard work! I will be in a meeting from 1-3 today, but am available via Chat or phone for any issues or questions.”

      1. allathian*

        That really depends on the job. Touching base first thing in the morning won’t work if some start at 7 am, or 8 at the latest (like me) and others at 9.30 (my coworker, unless we have a meeting that starts earlier). Our jobs are pretty independent, so we don’t need daily meetings. I do keep a convo going with my coworker every day so we have some idea what the other person is doing. We have monthly 1:1 with our manager, weekly team meetings, and a meeting with my coworker, our manager, and me about every 6 weeks.

  73. Saffie_Girl*

    So I am partaking in the great resignation and am leaving my job without another one lined up. Ultimately, the supervisor was toxic and not an environment I wanted to be in any longer (and I’m super lucky to have the ability to just take some time off without getting a paycheck for a bit). I am still looking for another job. Any thoughts on what to say about why I left? Thanks!

    1. fueled by coffee*

      Just be honest: “I’m looking to transition into something more aligned with [thing the position you’re applying to does]. I was fortunate enough to be able to take a short break between positions, so I took some time off to reset before beginning my job search so that I can be ready to hit the ground running once I’m hired.”

  74. anon for this*

    I’ve had the same boss for about 12 years and have felt well treated for the most part. He and I both got promoted a few years ago – him from middle level to just below the C suite, me from junior level to middle – so I never saw what his leadership looked like from the bottom. I assumed it was fine. But my former colleagues at junior level said that having him higher up had brought on a whole host of communication problems and an large amount of new condescension. I was really surprised by this – it sounded uncharacteristic of him, plus these were people whose judgment I trusted when I worked among them, and most of them had been under the same boss I was when he was mid level! I suggested that a group of my junior colleagues push back as a group: document the problem, focus on the communication problems and their consequences, and present it calmly to the C suite with suggested adjustments. That’s what they did, though I imagine they would have done it anyway. I eventually got to see the letter and it didn’t mention my boss specifically – it was indirect and pretty restrained.

    I have no evidence that the C suite paid any attention otherwise, but someone tipped off my boss and the entire layer below the C suite ended up absolutely enraged. Boss took it very badly – I’ve never seen him react like this to anything…aside from the time someone broke into his house and stole his new flat screen TV. Much later, I accidentally found a memo between some of C suite folks that had every single name of the people who signed the letter on a list to deny promotions to indefinitely. This absolutely sickens me. All they did was flag a communication problem, and now the entire bunch has been thrown under the bus because apparently my boss and his new same level people cannot take gentle group pushback. This is some authoritarian style garbage.

    Normally I am more than honest and would have been upfront about my part in all this, but I can’t believe how disproportionately punitive and heavy-handed the response was. That’s keeping me quiet. But now I feel like a total coward. Currently job searching, obviously, but am in a niche field, so who knows when the next real opportunity will show itself.

    1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      OMG can you copy the memo?? Let the others know whats going on. this is so wrong. Is there anyone above that may have a sane head? If not I think you and your coworkers need to get out.

    2. RecdByEmily*

      I think they screwed up on how they approached this. Especially with adding suggestions of what to do. Addressing the entire C Suite is overkill. And of course the entire layer below C Suite got upset; the letter was “indirect”, meaning effectively that every single one of them was accused!
      There is a huge huge difference between going to one person who can help address the problem with Boss, versus basically announcing to the entire C Suite, “Your managers are awful.”
      The ironic part here is that they were trying to address a communication problem. The way they approached addressing the problem was itself bad communication.

  75. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

    any suggestions for some online professional development for Admin assistants. I don’t handle anything with budgets as that’s done by the director and manager but many of the online classes seem to focus on that. I took one and it was useless for me. topics included: Accounting, business law, Human Resource Management, operations management. There were only like 3 out of 12 lessons that were relevant to my job.
    If it helps I am an admin assistant at a counseling center at a university. Does anyone knows of any professional development online (preferably free to low cost) that would be beneficial

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I don’t have any specific sites but in general courses on Excel and Outlook/Gmail especially calendar functions would be helpful in most admin roles. Connecting zoom links automatically to outlook calendar invites was a game changer in our office. Also basic printer+tech debuging lol, saves both time of waiting for IT and your basic sanity when things stop working and you really needed that scanned yesterday. Some automation of stuff is neat too (outlook form letters where its a mass mailing but everyone automatically got their own name in the dear so-and-so only are a nice touch, saves yourself so much time too can populate data from sheets).

      On the soft skills side public speaking, tone especially in emails (admin is often the first and most public face of the organization people encounter, but also how to professionally tell someone no that’s not my job without burning bridges when people try to take advantage of admin).

      1. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

        Thanks for your help. I never thought of the outlook form thing before. I do think I saw a professional development class online that was about outlook. I might take a look at that. I did like 3 classes on excel during covid when our center was completely remote.

  76. Banana Naan*

    I have been a Salesforce user for a little more than a year and a half in my nonprofit. I’m currently working towards a Salesforce admin certification on Trailhead. While I don’t have admin privileges myself, I work closely with the currently departing admin and the onboarding admin to keep the data clean and up-to-date, help her understand how our nonprofit works and how the system works, and cover requests by fellow staff members and our customers while she gets up to speed. I’m comfortable analyzing data and creating and running reports, and while I have an English degree, I’m happy to learn and explaining technical information for internal and external use.

    How do I get my foot in the door for entry-level Salesforce admin positions? What does an entry-level salary look like? Requirements? Must-haves and nice-to-haves? What is a day in the life of a Salesforce admin look like? I’d like to leave the nonprofit sector entirely, but I’m not sure how to evaluate jobs to see what is a good fit for me. Any help would be much appreciated!

    1. Banana Naan*

      What *does* a day in the life of a Salesforce admin look like? Gosh, there goes my writing cred….

  77. user525o3*

    How long should I stay in a job if I’m not learning anything and the job is no fun?

    I’m in IT. It’s quite typical to change jobs often here. Still, my typical stay duration is 1-2 years, which isn’t that long.

    I’ve been 1.5 years in my current job. I’m not learning anything, since the position resulted more junior than I expected. At the same time I do get asked during job interviews why I want to change already (although I’m getting some offers and I’m getting contacted by recruiters proactively on linkedin too).

    Should I stay or should I go? I’ve tried asking for more advanced tasks or change my position at my current job several times, but without success.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      This is the perfect time for you to get out. You can even tell the truth in interviews – the job is a more junior level than you expected and you don’t have any opportunity for growth.

    2. RecdByEmily*

      Definitely leave. Experience in terms of years is something employers look at, but experience in what you can do matters more. If you stay at a job for 5 years where you learn nothing and don’t advance, you’ll probably lose out to someone with 3 years of experience who was doing more complex work.
      People are always hiring IT. A potential employer will 100% understand “I’m leaving because there’s no room for growth at my current company.”

  78. Ms. Clark*

    I have spent most of my career working in big box retail stores and restaurants. I recently had to leave a job I was at for almost 2 decades in order to relocate with my spouse. Here’s my issue. I am now very far away from my family and I want to be able to visit them a few times a year. Most of the jobs that I will be applying for here don’t offer lots of vacation time, at least not for several years. I can afford to take unpaid time off for these trips. The problem is finding an employer that will allow this.

    For example, I recently interviewed for a job at a large store that is open every day of the year. I told them that I was willing to work every major holiday every year and the majority of weekends. I then told them that I would need the flexibility to take about 10 days off a few times a year to travel. I told them I would always do this during off-peak times and never around a holiday. They were going to offer me the job until I told them this, then they said they would have to check and see if that was okay. I never heard back from them after that.

    Who has advice for me on how to bring this up? I thought that the best way to handle it is to bring it up at the interview to make sure it isn’t going to be a problem. One of my friends told me that I should not mention it during the interview. They said that I should just get hired and let an employer see how good of a worker I am and then bring it up at a later time a month or so before I want to take a vacation. I don’t know what is best to do. I feel like it is better to know that they would be okay with it upfront, but I wonder if it makes employers think I might be a difficult employee even though I tell them I am willing to work anytime including all major holidays and most weekends.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I think the standard advice would be to bring this up when you get an offer. But you need to consider that it just might not be feasible in some of the jobs you’re looking for, since they’re jobs where coverage is required. Especially since you’re talking about 10 days – I think a week would be more palatable to potential employers (though I definitely understand why you want to maximize your travel time by staying longer). You might consider looking for employers that have their own seasonal shut-downs or slowdowns, like schools and education-adjacent institutions.

    2. RecdByEmily*

      Is this hourly work or salaried? Is it shift work?
      I ask because with a lot of jobs, the amount of time off isn’t (necessarily) how much they’re willing to pay you during your time off, but rather how often they’re willing to not have you there.
      If it’s hourly shift work, you probably have more leeway because other people can be scheduled and coverage will (ostensibly) be fine.

      But if it’s not shift work (with plenty of other people who can fill in), that’s… just not going to be a thing most companies would be willing to do. I’m guessing you mean that’d you be taking 10 days off at a time (and not 10 days off over the whole year) more than once a year. If you’re in the US, you’re asking for A LOT of time off. (I have 20 days a year and that’s seen as generous!) Again, in most cases it’s not “we’re not willing to pay for more time where you’re not working”, it’s “to do this job, you need to be here this often”.

      But in either case, I’d suggest rather than telling them what you want, you ask about what they offer. Most companies will balk at you saying you want to take off a week-and-a-half off multiple times a year, even if that is within the limit of what they’re offering for time off. Try “What are your policies on time off/vacations?” ‘What are your policies on extended time off?” “What are your policies on unpaid time off?” (if applicable)

      1. Ms. Clark*

        I’m talking about hourly shift work, nothing that would be salaried. Just a basic hourly employee at a retail store or a restaurants. I’m just a little bit surprised at some of the resistance I’m seeing to me asking to be allowed to take unpaid time off. This is especially true because I am specifically saying that I will always be available to work every major holiday and that I am willing to work the majority of weekends as well.

        1. Squeakad*

          Do you have to work full-time the whole year? Maybe focus on places like retail that have a busy season or if there are restaurants that are busier at certain times. Let them know that you want to work three or six months of the year or whatever.

          I think with the kind of job you’re describing, it sadly does send out a red flag that you would not be reliable. Or even more, that you don’t really need a job if you want to take that much time off and can take it unpaid. My experience albeit limited is that retail and restaurants want you to really need to work.

    3. Ms. Clark*

      I feel like I’ve gained a little bit of insight here. Perhaps I’m going about this the wrong way. The responses here have made me realize that I’m giving the wrong impression about what I’m asking. I don’t expect to be able to take off for frequent vacations nor is that what I want to do. Maybe the way I’m framing it in the interviews is making them think that I don’t really need to work and therefore I might be a difficult person to work with or I might not be a good worker. I’m going to try asking about policies around time off, basically just asking if occasionally taking some time off to go visit family is an okay thing without naming a specific number of times per year or a number of days that I would want to be gone. Giving them a requirement like that before they have had the opportunity to see what kind of worker I am is probably the problem.

  79. Jlg143*

    Does anyone have any experience/tips helping recently arrived refugees in the US find jobs commensurate with their skills and experience? I’m volunteering with one such family and he has 10 years experience in translation/security/supervising security patrols. But no college, no retail experience, no computer skills, conversational but not great written English… I’d like to think that a decade of professional experience under hardship conditions I’m lucky enough to only imagine should count for something. But in terms of concrete advice I’m kind of drawing a blank — he’s struggling to get called back even from the local Giant/Target etc. Any advice would be very appreciated.

    1. quill*

      It might be worth finding job placement services that cater specifically to immigrants, even if they were originally focused on a different population, for advice.

    2. Burnt Eggs*

      Loading docks at warehouses or trucking companies; being bilingual may, depending on the language be a bonus. Field work for utility installers?

    3. Policy Wonk*

      Many social service agencies provide support for employment. ( Catholic Social Services, Lutheran Social Services come to mind. No, you don’t have to be a member of their faith.) I would start with the agency that brought him to the US, see they can help.

  80. quill*

    Commentariat, two questions:

    1) How do you change fields? I have a degree in a generalized science that gives me few direct job qualifications. (Let’s call it Silkworm Ecology) and I currently work quality assurance in a highly regulated tangential field of, uh, Monarch Butterfly Manufacturing. I’m having trouble figuring out what I’m qualified for that doesn’t match my previous jobs, which have been all over the caterpillar sciences but all very entry level, and therefore trouble searching for job titles. And because I’m in a manufacturing adjacent industry, I’m seeing job titles that require a GED and job titles that require a PHD that are broadly similar in how many of my skills they cover.

    2) Any advice on seeking a new role within the same company when you’re not that good at your current job? My current job turns out to not be a good match and I’m doing solid C+/B- work on systems where anything less than an B+ creates problems for the rest of the team, for systemic reasons.

    1. user525o3*

      Try to meet as many people as possible and talk to them about their jobs. Also think about what you are good at and like doing.

      I found my vocation by doing an internship that had to do with A and B. I got it because I was into A. I soon discovered that A wasn’t for me but focusing on B offered good career prospects and I had a chance to get good at it. I invested a lot of time to learning B in my free time and got a job in the field soon after.

      1. quill*

        Thanks, I’ll try. Currently my group is a little siloed due to being 1) onsite during covid, and 2) the lab rats.

    2. sdog*

      Not to be a downer on this, but with respect to #2, I do think it’s tough to transfer within under these circumstances. I don’t know your position or industry, but I was in a similar position for years (hated my job, thought I’d do excellent work in other departments). Until I gritted my teeth and forced myself to just focus on getting better at the job I had, I couldn’t get past our internal applications processes for other positions. And I’ll be honest – I never got stellar reviews at that old job, but I brought it up to the point where I was generally solid and not an outlier. And, I took on extra tasks within the job every chance I got, including volunteering to mentor newbies and leading trainings, which also forced me to get better at something I really didn’t like that much. I strongly feel that bringing up my performance (and having a contact in the new group) was what ultimately got me out and into a position I liked so much better.

      So I do still think it’d be great for you to try to meet people in other departments. I think my colleague’s recommendation helped a lot when I made my switch, but it still wouldn’t have mattered much if my supervisors hadn’t also been positive about my work (it being an internal move, everyone talked to each other about this stuff).

      For what it’s worth, I just left that position I finally moved into, after more than 5 years of excellent performance reviews and growth, so I know I was right about the first position just not being the right fit (as I’m sure you are too). But I never would have gotten the chance to know that if I hadn’t gotten better at the old job. So if you really think that would be impossible in your situation, I recommend also keeping an eye out for external jobs in areas that you’re more interested in. The job market is much better now than when I was going through all this 7-8 years ago, so it just seems like there’s not as much reason to grit your teeth and bear it.

      1. quill*

        I’m hoping the fact that I’m in a new position for the department and I haven’t yet been here a year, and the fact that my particular department is being slowly dissolved due to pandemic profitability related reasons, might give me some leeway with the cross-department recommendation. Unfortunately I don’t think I have time to sustain huge improvements…

  81. catboy42*

    I have a new manager, who I was involved in helping hire; she has never managed anyone before. However, she is qualified for the role! We had a great field of candidates, and picked her, due to her interest in learning to manage, and my grandboss’s belief that I’m an easy person to manage. I have personal reasons for why I did not apply for the role myself and did not want it, which I have emphatically stated to everyone, including candidates, since the job was posted. Our workplace has a steep learning curve, and she keeps making comments to me about how I should be her manager, because I have more institutional knowledge, and a similar amount of technical knowledge to her.

    I knew going into this that it would be a rough few months getting her up to speed, but I did not realize that would mean also trying to lead her through her imposter syndrome, and trying to teach her how to be friendly, but not friends, with the person she manages. I’m emotionally and physically exhausted from personal situations outside of work, and have run out of subtle ways to say “you are qualified to be my boss. Stop putting yourself down, go read AAM, and talk to your own boss if you truly feel you aren’t qualified.”

    Anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? Similar scenarios that ended well and will give me a bit of hope?

    1. jane's nemesis*

      Maybe you could just sort of… ignore those comments? Maybe she’s looking for reassurance, maybe she’s putting herself down from insecurity, or maybe she’s worried that YOU feel that way and she’s trying to feel out if you do? But for any of those, maybe the comments will trickle off if you stop reassuring/responding to them. Or say one FINAL time, “Hey, I’ve expressed before that I think you’re qualified for the role and that’s why the interview team picked you. What’s going on with these continued negative comments about yourself?” She might not even realize how often she’s saying that stuff.

    2. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      It could be she is trying to compliment you and express appreciation (poorly, I know) that you provide the institutional knowledge and help her and the team.
      Or it could be for various reasons such as being worried that you might feel disrespected when she represents the team at a higher level meeting when she knows that you were the source of a lot of the information she is bringing to the table, thinking that you may want to leave because you don’t want to be managed by someone who knows so much less than you at the moment/has less experience, or that you may in fact think that you made a mistake in not going for the management role.
      I took on a managerial type of role at 27, my first real managing role. I have a few team members who are in there 50s-70s, who have been doing this work for longer than I have been alive. Not sure how old you are, but for me it was strange that these guys who were clearly way more qualified were just ok with me coming in and being their work boss. It kind of evened out after awhile, I learned that leading a team did not mean that I had to be the expert, I just needed to know who to go to to get the answer needed. I guess I was worried that my older colleagues would be like ‘look at this kid thinking she knows stuff’ when they clearly knew way more. I realized that they truly wanted to help me do well, and weren’t at all bothered by the fact that I wasn’t an expert as long as I was willing to listen to them.
      Long story short, I think it should get better. It’s just awkward in the beginning because you feel like everyone is judging you for not being the top performer and most knowledgeable because you are the manager. Turns out they’re not (well, at least in good workplaces). Maybe try emphasizing that a manager doesn’t need to know everything, a manager just needs to know how to utilize their team to ensure that the team performs to their best potential?

      1. catboy42*

        Thank you for this perspective! I guess I never really thought about it that way; we’re of a similar age, but even then, it probably feels weird to be all “I am your manager even though I feel like we should actually be peers.” My wife suggested I literally tell her to read AAM, but she confessed that she already does! (maybe she should go through the backlogs….)

        I just genuinely want her to succeed at this job, you know? She’s a good person. Her evolving into a good manager would be a win for me; I think she needs to just realize that she doesn’t have to be the expert to do a good job at being a manager.

        1. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

          Yeah, maybe it’s just me, but I feel like the first management position is weird feeling. For me, this was my second office, and the managers that I interacted with just always seemed to know the answer when I went to them with my stuff, or when I was in meetings with senior leadership they always seemed so polished. Me on the other hand, it was more ‘oh, let me go check with Steve’ or ‘hey Steve, I’m going to talk to grandboss and he’ll likely ask about x, can you give me some pointers on what to say?’ for a few months, which was uncomfortable because I felt like I wasn’t equivalent to the other managers. Turns out they were just glad I didn’t turn out like the previous manager who also came in like me, newish hire, younger, not as much experience, and she was more of the ‘don’t speak to or email anyone unless you’ve cleared it with me’ and “I know everything, so don’t give me your opinion unless I ask for it’ type because she was so convinced that everyone wanted her job or wanted to outshine her. (She and I overlapped for a few months, I was the ‘manager in training’ and then she left because she thought the environment was ‘too toxic’ .. .but she was the one that made it that way).

  82. JH*

    I work in non-profit event fundraising, I’ve been interviewing leading up to our events because I’d like to get out ASAP because it’s become toxic and I’m incredibly burnt out. I’m anticipating potentially getting a job offer in the next week or so, however, I wanted to try and time my start date with being able to finish up the events and also taking a week off. But our events don’t wrap for almost a month… would asking for a start date 4-5 weeks out be unreasonable? I don’t want to burn bridges at my current organization by leaving before the events happen since I’m the team lead.. Thoughts, advice, or suggestions?

    2. Antilles*

      It’s not at all unreasonable to ask IMO. It’s pretty common to need a couple weeks to provide proper notice, then want a little bit of time to decompress. So I don’t think there’s any harm in asking.
      The real thing to be prepared for is what you’ll do if they say no and tell you they absolutely need you in 2-3 weeks. It’s relatively unlikely; in my experience, many places wouldn’t blink at you asking for 4 weeks and plenty of others might ask for an explanation but then be fine after you explain the reason…but start thinking through how you’ll handle it if push really comes to shove.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      It is extremely, extremely normal to have 4-5 weeks between accepted offer and start date. In your specific example, it could actually damage your reputation long-term if you leave that soon before an event (happened to me!) and as a hiring manager I would be concerned if a new hire would be willing to leave right before an event they’re spear heading.

    5. Alexis Rosay*

      I think it should be fine. That’s not terribly long and staying through an event you’ve committed to shows your integrity as a professional, which I’d think any new workplace would appreciate.

  83. A. Ham*

    I am driving myself crazy waiting for an offer or a rejection after a final interview. They said I would hear this week, and I guess today is technically this week but its still maddening! I just want to know. :-/
    Plus this is going to be a crazy long day at my current job because of an event tonight.
    send chocolate and patience.
    Anyone else playing the waiting game today?

  84. Gan Ainm*

    Looking for recommendations on how to *start* a difficult performance conversation. I’ve searched archives here, googled, etc, and everything I’ve found gives bullet points for what material to cover, how to be direct and not sugarcoat, but what I’m struggling with is literally the first two or three sentences of introduction before I dive into the details, ie:

    “hi John, thanks for joining us here today, we’re here to talk about your performance issues and next steps.” >>this feels abut harsh or abrupt, but I can’t think of anything better, thoughts?

    For context, this will be the official warning that this is the last step before a formal PIP. We’ve had intensive coaching, warnings, training, and nothing has worked. This meeting is to say, “your performance continues to be far below expectations, you’re not meeting standards, and if we don’t see significant, sustained improvement over the next three weeks the next step is a PIP.”

    Recommendations or feedback appreciated.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I start off with something like, “We’ve talked in the past about concerns I’ve had with your work, and I want to talk about where we are with those things now, hear your perspective, and figure out what next steps make sense.” (I mean, obviously I start with hi/how are you, but then this is how I move into the substance of the meeting.)

    2. fhqwhgads*

      As usual Alison’s script is basically perfect.
      I know this isn’t what you’re asking – and realize you may be stuck with protocols outside of your control – but if there have already been intensive coaching, warnings, and training, those three weeks might be better spent as the PIP itself? Not a final warning before one. Unless I’m misreading how long this has already been going on this seems sort of dragging it out.

  85. AFT*

    What percentage of bosses do you think are good, okay or bad?
    I am leaving a job where my boss was excellent and the high-point of my experience – company was not great and work was OK – and I’m wondering how likely it is my next boss will be as good. My guess is that there is likely a bell curve of quality of bosses, but that the truly excellent ones and truly terrible ones are rare but most discussed.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Peter Principle – you get promoted until you stop being competent at your job, meaning most bosses are awful.

    2. RagingADHD*

      That depends on so many factors, including your own temperament and perspective. A really great manager can manage nearly anyone effectively, but most average managers are going to have a limited repertoire of skills or management style that works well with some folks and not so well with others.

      I’ve had bosses I thought were terrible who did great work from the higher-ups perspective, and who some of my coworkers really appreciated. I’ve also had bosses I worked with quite well, that others could not stand.

      IME, if you’re a solid and fairly self-directed performer with the ability to get along with many different types of people, most managers will be fine, a few great and some terrible. The more specific your needs are from a manager, the harder time you will have finding a good fit.

      But on those far ends of the bell curve, I think there are more terrible managers than great ones, because managing is hard. You can be a terrible manager by doing nothing, so entropy is always going to skew the curve down to some extent.

    3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I think you’re right, there’s a bell curve/broad spectrum of bosses from outright terrible to completely wonderful. In my career so far I’ve had 6 bosses; of those 1 was horrible, 2 were decent, 2 were great, and 1 was completely exceptional.

    4. eisa*

      Defining “boss” as the person who signs your vacation request and decides on your pay .. I have had one bad-ish one (not bad enough to count as truly terrible), one good one, the rest fell into the “okay” category.
      Most of the time, they did not have much impact on my day-to-day work.

  86. New job blues*

    I’m one month into a new job and seriously considering job searching. I know people here are always saying to leave such short jobs off of your resume, but when a recruiter asks why I left my last job without something lined up, what am I supposed to say?

    1. Sloanicote*

      The truth, usually. If the job wasn’t what you thought because of X or Y, that is usually understandable, particularly if the issue is not likely to recur in the new position you’re interviewing for. Based case scenario, in your interview you understood the job was about bookkeeping, but it turns out it’s actually about accounting, and you’re looking for a job in bookkeeping so that’s why you’re now applying with Bookkeepers Anonymous. It’s tougher if the reason is that your boss or coworkers stink, or because of the hours or workload, because now it’s kind of your word against theirs and the interviewer won’t know if you’re just unusually prickly or what. In those cases it might be easier to pivot fields slightly and pretend you’re just extremely passionate about bookkeeping or whatever.

      1. New job blues*

        Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately it’s more of the latter – the people are nice but the way the company functions is maddening.

    2. irene adler*

      It’s not about why you left, but what you are headed towards.

      “Saw the [ job ad] and thought it was an opportunity I could not pass up. The position allows me to use skills A and B which I have wanted to put into action but didn’t have opportunity to do so in prior positions. “

  87. TheBeanMustMoveOn*

    Should I tell my boss that I’m not a good fit for the role I’m in?
    Backstory? I took this role over a year ago as a challenge, its adjacent to my field of study and other people with similar backgrounds have been successful. The position I’m in has a lot less overlap with my field of study than I was expecting, and I’m really, really struggling to be successful with all of the parts that don’t overlap. My performance reviews have been middling.
    I like my boss, and the company is a good company to work for but I’m ready to leave.
    I’m trying to find a job that is closer to my field of study, but I haven’t been having a lot of success yet. Is the talk worth while so that they arent blindsided if and when I do leave?

    1. Mental Lentil*

      It depends on your relationship with your boss. If you think you can trust them not to just let you go at some point, then it may be good to do that so that they know you are looking and can plan on replacing you at some point. If they are a really good boss, they may even look for ways that they can make the role more into something that aligns with your skills and interests. If you’ve been a good employee otherwise, it would be smart of them to do this.

      If you have the slightest inkling that they might cut you off at the knees, though, I don’t know that I would. It just gives them a reason to let you go unexpectedly.

    2. Sloanicote*

      I … would not, personally, even if the boss and I had a very good relationship – because I’ve had job searches drag on for a lot longer than I expected (like over a year) and I don’t want to spend a year in my current job having already announced that I’m trying to leave. Any boss is going to think of you differently once they know you’re on the way out. You could ask a bit if there are any opportunities at the same company you would be interested in that might be a better fit for you, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.

    3. M.*

      I definitely get the impulse to want to let your boss know, but I would seriously discourage you from doing this. Don’t worry about blindsiding them—as Alison regularly notes, they will figure it out. Be as conscientious a colleague as you possibly can, and just focus your energy on finding the right next move for yourself.

  88. Ditching a dream (nightmare?) job*

    I’ve been in-process for an unusual and interesting job for 3 years (it got very delayed due to COVID). The start date is approaching, and management continued to decline to give any information about the job conditions and how they’ve changed due to COVID, etc. It’s just been hitting brick wall after brick wall.

    This week I decided to ditch them; I can’t deal with their disorganization and lack of communication anymore. It feels good to be able to move on.

    PS the job is Peace Corps. I would not recommend pursuing unless you enjoy dysfunctional management.

  89. Lemon*

    Low stakes question to hiring managers. My college’s career centre insisted we only provide email IDs in the format firstname (dot) lastname (at) gmail (dot) com. Their opinion was that anything else looks unprofessional. I have a fairly unique last name so I had no trouble creating this email ID, but I can imagine people with more common names facing difficulties.

    Question: Do hiring managers really care about numbers or special characters in an email ID, as long as it’s not one of the following:
    1. something offensive or NSFW
    2. unrelated to the applicant
    3. difficult to remember or dictate (e.g. combinations of special characters and numbers)

    Also do hiring managers notice and/or hold it against people who don’t have a gmail ID?

    1. Miel*

      This sounds like impossible advice to follow! Any name that’s not wildly unique has been taken already.

      1. eisa*

        yeah, that’s just BS.
        On this site, a lot has been said about the “usefulness” of “advice” from college career centers and yours does not seem to be an exception if they don’t even realize that out of all Joe Smiths in existence, only one of them will be able to be joe (dot) smith (at) gmail (dot) com.

    2. Antilles*

      As a hiring manager: I barely notice candidates’ email addresses unless it stands out in a bad way. Same with the email domain; if you’re using Google or Yahoo or Hotmail or your ISP or any other generic domain, it’s completely irrelevant.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Some reference to your last name is nice, saves them the trouble of double checking contact information. Or first name if its pretty unique and not super common.

      Lastname12345, First.Last, Last.First, Last.MiddleInitial.First, etc would all be fine to me.

      Gmail not required. Caveat if applying to tech jobs and you still have aol or earthlink or hotmail, there’s some judgement.

      1. Not coping well*

        You say gmail not required, but I have a surprising amount of trouble using my custom domain email address(es). Not just from my emails being rejected by anti-spam measure, but some apps and sites refuse to recognise an email address as valid that isn’t a big provider like gmail or outlook.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      No! So long as your email is not something like ilovetocommitcrimes [at] iloveracism [dot] com, I don’t even notice the email address. Some variation of your name is ideal, whether it’s initials and birth year, last name and graduation year, first name and short series of numbers, or anything else along those lines, but I don’t hold inoffensive but non-name email addresses against people.

      1. No Tribble At All*

        Unfortunately, if you’re adding numbers for years, please lengthen out 1988

    7. Anonymous Educator*

      Your career centre is being overly rigid with what should be just general guidelines instead of strict rules. Take it as not making your email SkaterGirlz129108 and more like claudettecovin19550302. Numbers are fine.

  90. Bronze Medalist*

    How do you deal with constant changes in direction from leadership?

    Secondly, how do manage when leadership refuses to give you the resources you need to adequately do your job?

    And before any says it – yes, i am actively looking for a new role.

    1. Aggresuko*

      I can’t speak to the first one because usually our leadership doesn’t make changes, but for the second, you keep doing your job to the best of your ability and generally keep on kind of failing where you don’t have the resources. Then go, “Gee, isn’t it a shame that we can’t get X fixed so we could do this better. OH WELL!” shrug emoji.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      First step is to just accept that this is what the role is like and leadership isn’t going to change. Easier said than done, but not letting it frustrate you or taking it personally goes a long way to preserving your well being and mental health.

      Second, when direction changes or requests come in that you don’t have the resources for, be honest about timelines and deliverables. I have OFTEN told my boss things along the line of “Okay, I can switch to X but that will delay previous request Y. Also, I can only finish steps 1 and 2 without guidance from legal on 3, so I won’t be able to drive X to completion without additional resource. Who should I contact for that? Plus, with John Doe on paternity leave, that timeline isn’t reasonable. It will likely take a few business days longer.” Usually I don’t have to hit ALL those points in a response to a single request, but you get the idea. Matter of fact, unemotional setting of expectations is really important so no one ends up surprised. I also usually follow up with all this info in an email if it was a conversation so no one can say later they didn’t know.

      Then I just follow up on a cadence so they know where things stand and again if/when I get blocked by my lack of a resource as previously discussed (in my example I’d circle back when I made it to part 3 and needed legal if I hadn’t got any more info on that resource).

  91. NotHostess*

    It happened some time ago, but I am still baffled by it, and would greatly appreciate some impartial insight.

    I used to work with a group of 6 people, and our entire department was laid off at the same time (because or downsizing). Before that, we would occasionally throw a potluck at someone’s home, and we did it a few times even after we were no more working together, and everything went just fine.

    Once we agreed to meet up in a pub, we set a date, but in the meantime, my husband had to go on a business trip, and I had two little children at home and no one to take care of them (I was still nursing the baby). So I offered to host the meeting at our home to be able to participate, offered to cook the main meal, and everyone agreed. So far so good.

    But then, one of my ex-coworkers (Bob) told me that their former coworker (Stan, who was not a member of our group, and basically left the company when I started to work for it) who had moved abroad was coming for a short visit to our town, and asked me if he could come to that meeting too as they would love to meet him. I knew that guy only casually (and more than half of our group did not know him at all), did not have anything against him per se but did not feel like having him come to my home (husband out of town, me with a toddler and a baby I was still nursing). So I told Bob that I’d rather not.

    And then, all hell went loose.

    It was like you flipped a coin – Bob immediately became very aggressive and manipulative. He started to ask me why I hated Stan, because why would I otherwise not want him to come? He was very ironic („don’t tell me you are afraid of Stan? do you know that he works for a very respectable institution, do you really think he would attack you or something“)? I was caught off guard and I replied that no, I didn’t have absolutely anything against Stan, but as I barely know him, I did not feel at ease inviting him over to my private space, and that was all. Bob then continued pushing, stated that this was a proof I hated Stan (because why would I refuse if I didn’t), mocked the „private space“ thing, and kept asking me questions „but WHY don’t you want to invite Stan“? only to dismiss them and try to prove his point (that all my objections were not justified and that I should just invite Stan and make no fuss about it) .

    I was baffled and upset by this sudden turn of things. I tried to remain polite and I think I did, but I was adamant that Stan couldn’t come. Bob then said that if Stan cannot come, he wouldn’t come either. And (as this entire conversation was held by e-mail and it was cc’d to the entire group except for Stan who was not its member, because originally it was meant just to discuss details, and when it took this turn we did not make it private), another coworker and Bob’s friend (Andy) immediately said that if Bob doesn’t go, he won’t, either. And it was obvious that the rest of the coworkers did not want to become too much involved and just proposed that if Bob and Andy are not going it would be possibly better to meet up some other time.

    So the meeting did not happen, hubs and I ate all the already purchased and cooked food by ourselves, and we never met as a group again. I ruminated over it probably much more time than it deserved, asking myself whether I did something wrong, and if so, what it was that it caused such a loaded response and had virtually no support from the rest of the group. I was angry with Bob, of course, but I was very disappointed with Andy (I saw what Bob was doing as unacceptable and wondered how he could support him when he was so clearly rude to me), and with the rest as well (I sort of understand they wanted to avoid drama but I felt very strongly that this was not a case of „the truth is somewhere in the middle“, and that to basically attack and blackmail me was simply wrong, and neither of them but one acknowledged that).

    Today, it’s all over, but it still haunts me sometimes. I felt – and still feel – like I was dragged in a lot of unnecessary drama, leaving me basically with no other option than what I did. Had Bob asked politely (e.g. explaining that this is the only date Stan was available, and that they would really want to see him), I’d be more than happy either to postpone the meeting for them to meet Stan somewhere else, or even to agree to have Stan come over. But I felt the immediate aggressive turn as soon I said a polite „no“ did not really leave me any other chance than to push back.

    What do you think? Was there something I could have done differently?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Bob’s aggressive reaction would have made me much less likely to invite Stan into my home. I mean, unless you literally said “No, I won’t allow Stan into my home because I’m afraid he’ll attack me,” it was just very, very strange for Bob to bring that up.

      What could you have done differently? With 20/20 hindsight, you could have said “with the new baby and everything I’d rather not host a larger group, so why don’t you guys meet at the pub and I’ll join you next time.” But who could have predicted Bob would overreact like that?

    2. Sunshine*

      Holy moly! You did nothing wrong. It was generous to invite people over to your home, and you’re under no obligation to purchase food and cook for more people (that you don’t even know!) and entertain them as well. It’s not at all a weird call to not invite unknown men into your home while your husband is out of town and you have kids. Bob was out of line and if the other group members can’t see that, you’re better off without them. I’m so sorry this happened!

    4. quill*

      Yeah, this is not a you problem, this is a Bob and Andy problem. Bob presumed that your hospitality would be extended beyond the original invitees automatically, threw a tantrum when it was not, doubled down in the face of some very logical reasons regarding “I want to control who is in my house when I’m temporarily the sole caretaker of a toddler and infant,” and stormed off. Andy took his side for some reason.

      Everyone else probably at that point didn’t want to invite Bob or Andy to anything, and didn’t want to make an “everyone but Bob and Andy, the people who invite +1’s to OP’s home and then throw a fit about it, and the guy who backed him up,” group, so the whole thing fell apart naturally.

      1. NotHostess*

        Thank you and all the other commenters, this has been exactly how I saw it from the very beginning and still see it.

        I felt awful for the whole thing for a long time. Of course, over the years I almost overcome it, but there was still a hint of doubt lingering over it – if Bob and Andy were so unhesitatingly indignated, wasn’t there something I overlooked and did wrong myself, unknowingly?

        To be honest, to hear impartial people confirm my thoughts is like an absolution and takes the rest of the weight off my shoulders. I feel I am going to be finally able to close this chapter.

        Thank you all so very much!

      1. AllTheBirds*

        Bob sounds like a major ass. He asked, you politely said no, he began haranguing you… who does that?

        Some relationships have a shelf life. His expired.

    6. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      I’m wondering if there was something that you didn’t know about Stan that made Bob more ‘protective’ over him. Like was he a physically imposing looking person, was he bullied in the workplace, or maybe of a different background than you? It’s an overreaction on his part either way, I’m just maybe trying to rationalize why it was such a big deal to him that you said no. I don’t see why he didn’t just go with some of the statements you recommended at the end of your post.

      1. NotHostess*

        Of course I cannot completely exclude this but I don’t think so. Stan was not a member of any disadvantaged group, and when this happened, he was in a higher position than the rest of us.

        If I look back, I can see a pattern in how Bob reacted when somebody opposed him. He would do basically the same thing he did here to me – became very hostile and asked questions to verify what the problem was (which per se would be a good thing) only to refute them and mock the answers.

        An example: Bob, Andy and me were working on a project, let us say producing teapots. Bob was formally the boss of our little department but was doing basically the same work as the rest of us, as we did not need much management work-wise. He could be very productive and creative if he wanted to… the problem was that he started having an affair and instead of our usual 1 hr lunch breaks, he would be absent for 3 hours, and when he was working, he was distracted enough to make a lot of mistakes. Andy and me kept straightening the spouts and handles of his botched teapots for some time, partly because we did not want to draw unnecessary attention to our department (yes, the company we worked for was a bit dysfunctional, it left us alone if we produced good teapots, and we didn’t want any hassle and didn’t want to throw Bob under the bus). But finally we were fed up and decided to say something to Bob (very carefully, which, when I look back, was also quite telling). So we told him that for some time, we have to check his teapots more than before and could he please pay more attention. He did the same thing as he did to me with Stan – he became offended, grilled us with questions, we had to take a teapot and point out and describe every single flaw we had to correct, and then he harshly criticized our answers (this dimple is not a big deal, this faulty flower is actually intentional, and, ok, this spout is really a bit crooked, so in this one point you were right).

        So, when I look back at it, it was a case of “if somebody tells you who they are, believe them”

        At the end, I felt

    7. RagingADHD*

      The only real difference I would think advisable would have been to start a separate email thread with just Bob for the discussion about why not.

      Ultimately, I think what happened was that most of the group members were ready for this pattern to end, and move on. Bob was just the one who went off and created the excuse.

      I have often seen it happen that a group that holds on too long after their natural life cycle will flame out over nonsense. Some people can’t let go unless they are mad, but they need to let go, so they create a reason to get mad.

      1. NotHostess*

        I was thinking about that (that I should have started a separate e-mail), and it is true that it had more drama potential that I didn’t, but I somehow felt I needed witnesses (because if I conversed with Bob separately, nobody would be aware of what really happened and would they believe me as it was so outrageous? And would I be willing to wash dirty laundry and explain to them what really happened and why Bob and Andy are suddenly refusing to come)?

        In retrospect, this would have made no difference – our little group would have probably fallen apart either way. But it would probably leave me with less bitter aftertaste because I would possibly not realize that the rest of the group didn’t really care.

    8. PollyQ*

      1) No, you did nothing wrong, and it sounds like Bob’s got some serious issues.

      2) FWIW, your group probably would’ve dissipated pretty quickly anyway. That’s usually what happens when people aren’t working together anymore.

      1. NotHostess*

        You are probably right about the group dissipating, but on the other hand, we would met only once a year, perhaps even less, and I have several examples around me when people (ex-coworkers, ex-schoolmates) meet up regularly (although not very frequently) decades after they stopped working/going to school together.

        So it is not completely unthinkable but I agree with you that this group was not to last, and I just had to learn it the hard way.

    9. Workerbee*

      From your other comments, Bob sounds like you were walking on eggshells around him, plus not the greatest coworker at other times either. Let that Andy person remain under his sway—you inadvertently performed a great service for the rest by sticking to your convictions, and getting your time back from that worrisome person.

      1. NotHostess*

        This is spot on, we were indeed walking on eggshells around him.

        He was sort of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde – he could be very charming, and if he wanted to, he could make excellent teapots… but then there was the other, uglier side of his persona, and you never knew which one you are going to deal with.

        Andy was sort of a turncoat – during the teapot incident, we were in the same boat and he was cross at Bob the same as I was (I think because Bob’s actions and his behaviour were affecting him as well). However, during the visit incident he had Bob’s back (and again – if I delve in the past, this also was a part of a pattern in him). In retrospective, I’d say “good riddance” of both of them.

        I am glad that I stuck to what I thought was right, and I am grateful for all the feedback I am reading here, as it gives me finally a peace of mind that it was really not a “me problem”. It was my first job after school, and it skewed my perception of relationships at work for quite a long time. I recognize now the wisdom so often repeated here – that workplace should be a place for friendliness but not friendships, and that this is perfectly OK.

  92. 3Owls*

    How does your workplace handle competing disability accommodations? I.E. a service dog and someone who is allergic to dogs needing to work in the same space? Or someone who needs software to read emails to them sharing space with someone who is ADHD and headphones can’t be worn for work reasons?

    Interested in tips and stories.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      I think Alison has covered exactly this topic before! Definitely check the archives, I’ll respond to my comment with some links if I can find any quickly.

  93. Scoffrio*

    Is there a right way to talk to your boss about their possible burnout? My supervisor and I started at the exact same time, and I know that she’s been taking on a lot of work and definitely working plenty of extra late night hours. We were both hired to split the work of the prior person in her role, but she has the title/responsibility that goes with it (she’s director, I’m assistant director). I’m worried she’s going to burn herself out (like her predecessor at the director level did) and I don’t want that to happen because I really like her and want her to remain my boss. Is this something I should try and address with her or my grandboss or just let go?

  94. Not my real name*

    I have someone on my team who will be getting their master’s soon and will be taking two certification exams, one before graduation and one after. This certification is pretty huge and the employee will undoubtedly be moving on within a few months of receiving. I’d like to recognize the achievement, but I’m not sure if I let people know just before the exam days so they can wish the employee luck? After graduation, so they can congratulate? Both? Or are there other ways to acknowledge that I’m missing?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I didn’t tell anyone but my boss (and asked her to keep quiet about it) when I took certification exams because I didn’t want to have to explain to a bunch of people if I didn’t pass, to be honest. Once I knew I passed, I didn’t care who knew. So I would say, follow their lead on it, and before you make any announcements on their behalf, check with them to find out their comfort zone.

    2. Miel*

      Follow your employee’s lead! Ask them how they’d like to be recognized. Announcement at team meeting, party, card, etc. But their desires/ comfort level should be top of mind.

    3. Not my real name*

      These are very good points. I think in my head, there is no question that they will pass, but I can see not wanting people pestering you to know the outcome or having to explain if something goes horribly awry.

      Thank you!

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        And that’s exactly it — neither my boss or I (nor anyone else who knew me) had any doubts whatsoever that I would pass, which would’ve made it that much more unpleasant to have to explain not-passing to a bunch of people in a worst case scenario. :)

  95. Eleanor Shellstrop*

    Today feels like a big day because I’m taking my first *official* step to changing my career path!! I’ve had a string of terrible-to-just-ok retail and admin jobs since college, because by the time I graduated I no longer wanted to do what I majored in. So I’ve been kind of directionless for most of my 20s.

    But I think I figured out what I want to do, and I signed up for an intensive course on the subject I’m interested in, and it starts today! I’m also applying for a grad program in the field (my app is due in a week gaaaah), and I’m hoping that the intensive course gives me an edge on the application, because I have literally no other relevant experience. I just received a bunch of zoom links and google drive assignments for the course and it’s all just starting to feel so real it’s scary.

    The process of switching fields so far feels a bit like my life is on a train track, and I’m trying to pull one of those old-timey railroad track switches to change the career track I’m on, and it’s stuck and rusty and I’m not as strong as I want to be. But here’s hoping it all works out!

    3. A Girl Named Fred*

      Good luck! As someone still in the directionless 20s phase, I’m proud of you for getting to this point and taking these steps and I wish you all the best in your course and grad school! You’ve got this!

  96. New Job Same Stuff*

    I just started a new job about a month ago. This is my second job in the industry, and I left the first place after two years because it was a mess. As I was leaving, they were on track to fail an audit. I was told all through the interview process how excited they were to have me, that the COO saw herself as becoming a mentor to me, that the team was well established with 2 VP’s each with 7-9 years with the company. I wasn’t replacing someone, they were expanding and wanted to hire more people. All good signs.

    I started the same day as my boss and his boss. My first week, the senior analyst gave his notice. He was supposed to train me and tried to fit as much into his last two weeks as possible, but it didn’t go very well. Part of that was I had no context for any of the information being thrown at me or any idea of what questions to ask and part of it’ll was that he was not very skilled at training. There is no documentation to use to learn it myself. They did hire another person, but she didn’t overlap with the departing employee. My boss just kept saying how I was going to be training the new girl. That made me nervous. I expressed that to him and the COO that hired me and they both shrugged it off. One of the senior people went on paternity leave 2 weeks in. (Not begrudging this despite unfortunate timing! I think it’s amazing the company offers a full 12 weeks of paid paternity leave! There’s just even less guidance now.)

    Now, we’ve had two project managers leave/give notice. They have all of the account knowledge that we need and there’s little documentation. We’ve also learned that the books are a mess from the last boss’s boss level person, there are no processes in place, and the years of experience of the two people I interviewed with are in a related but still different area! So now I feel lied to and floating about. I spent all week on a project from boss’s boss only to be told yesterday at 6pm, never mind we didn’t need to do all that.

    I’m considering trying to find another new job, but I’m afraid that the chaos is everywhere these days. It’s a worker’s market, at least in my field, so people are leaving left and right. I’m afraid that I’d start another new job, go longer without insurance, have more stress, etc, only to have the same problem with everyone being new. Any suggestions? Should I look for new jobs? Stay where I am because I love the company as a whole, just not my dept right now? Talk to my boss and explain my frustrations? That doesn’t seem helpful, because there’s nothing he can really do about it.

    Separately, why are no companies focused on retention?? Surely raises are cheaper than hiring and onboarding. Or even appreciation bonuses or vacation perks if they don’t want to lock in higher salaries. Just *something* to keep from plunging into total chaos.

    1. Hatchet*

      My two cents is that you should talk to your boss and explain your frustrations, but keep it as focused on the job as you can (even if in your head you’re screaming!). Explain that you need clear communication on your projects. Can you set up a few check-ins along the way to 1) make sure you’re on the right track, 2) ask questions/get help or guidance for the pieces you need it for, and 3) make sure that this project is still one that you need to be working on.
      You said that not a lot of documentation was left. Given that (and the rest of the crummy situation and bad communication), who/how/where could you go to find the information you need? Talk to your boss about that. What should you do? Tell him “I still don’t understand how to do X and Y, and I need better clarification on how to do Z. How do I go about getting answers to my questions?”)
      Are there resources outside your company that can help? (If so, is there money available for PD?) Also, re: lack of documentation – do you maybe have to go back to some source material and recreate/relearn some pieces? Can you adapt the pieces given to you by people in other departments?

      I know you said that your boss can’t really do anything about it… but he should! He should totally be figuring out a way to get you the information you need to do your job! (see various options above)

      The silver lining to all of this is that you can create and set up the processes that work for you! Do you prefer one format over another? Go with it until someone tells you differently! Do you need help remembering the ten steps for one process? Write it down so it can go in the company manual! You are in a unique position in that you are the audience for all of these processes that need to be written down – if it doesn’t make sense to you, it likely won’t to another new employee.

      You mentioned that the COO offered to be a mentor to you. Has there been any follow up on that? If not, can you see if she’d like to meet for coffee to being the mentorship? Can you ask her vaguely if she ever felt stuck and see what her feedback is? (I’m talking generally how she handled difficult situations, not pinpointing your current frustrations and that conversation with your boss.)

      If you like the company and culture overall, I’d personally stick it out for another month or two and see if you advocating for the information you need changes anything. Good luck!!

  97. Jean*

    How do you schedule interviews???? I’ve started applying for jobs like crazy, I’m desperate to get out of my current job. But when I got this job I was working odd hours in a retail setting, this will be my first time trying to schedule interviews around my normal office hours job. How does it work? How far in advance do people schedule interviews? I feel anxious about this part.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      My experience so far has been that interviews get scheduled about 2-4 days out. I’m working a hybrid schedule, so I have the luxury of scheduling interviews (mostly virtual) on the days I’m at home, and I just block off the time on my Outlook calendar as a “hold.” I did have to do one low-stakes interview on a day when I was working in the office and just snuck into a conference room for the duration of the phone call.

      1. ferrina*

        This. You mark it on your calendar. You can either try to fit in at a time when you can take a lunch break, or you can treat it like a doctor’s appointment (however your company handles that- some will have you submit a PTO request, others will have you just put it on your calendar).
        I recommend stepping away from your desk 10-15 minutes before a phone interview. It gives you time to grab water or use the bathroom, find a quiet spot, review notes and get your game face on.

        Also- if you are in the office, start dressing a little more nicely on a regular basis. Someone suddenly wearing a suit when they are usually business casual (or just casual) and then disappearing at lunch is the dead giveaway for an interview. Wear something nice on a day that you’ll be in all day, and that will help when you actually step out for an interview.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      You can also try to schedule short phone screens or virtual interviews for your lunch break and take the call from your car or another quiet-ish location off site.

      For longer interviews, you can block off the time as an “appointment.” But employers understand that someone who is currently employed will need to work around their current job to schedule an interview — they should work with you on figuring out a time that fits with your schedule!

  98. Kammy6707*

    I need some outsider perspective. I left a previous job after one year during the pandemic. My “dream” job had become available and I was concerned about job safety at my current position as we were experiencing furloughs (those have since ended). I was very sad to leave, but felt it was the best option. The new job was also only 10 minutes from my house and I knew work from home wouldn’t last forever!

    Of course my dream job wasn’t such a dream – as it often goes. I felt that I had made a mistake and was hoping that an opportunity would open up at my old company. I was friends with someone still working there and had some insider knowledge about turnover and it seemed likely something would pop up.

    However, within the last two-three months, I’ve felt more engaged in my current job and company. My work is getting more interesting, a vacant position that I was to work closely with was finally filled and we are working well together and taking on projects together. My boss is planning to promote me and give me additional responsibilities. I feel that she is grooming me to rise in our department.

    Of course, this is the exact time that a position at the previous employer opened up! People that I worked with there really wanted me to apply and knew I was interested in coming back – but now I was on the fence about it. I did apply and had the first interview – everyone was just as lovely and friendly as I remembered and I was shortly contacted after for a second interview (which I haven’t confirmed yet.)

    Literally the day after my interview, the first steps were started on developing my new job description along with some others that are all part of the same initiative. We will need to present these requests, but it’s likely they will be approved as they are in response to new state regulations and my promotion has been verbally approved by the VP over our division.

    I need to make a decision as I feel like I can’t continue in either process and feel good about it – I don’t want to feel like I am misleading anyone. However, I am very torn! Both jobs will have similar core functions/responsibilities, but I would have more responsibilities in my current job with my promotion. However, that will come with a pay increase and I’m more likely to receive regular raises at this company than the former. Benefits are also better in my current job. I think that I will be lucky to get my current salary at the old company and I’m unsure about future raises as they were more sporadic there.

    Complicating things is that my husband and I were hoping to move closer to family, and the old job is closer to the area we’d likely move to. Currently, I would not want to move to that area due to the fact I would have a long commute on a busy highway (I am not remote).

    My husband said not to worry about the salary differences since neither one would hurt our finances – but to me, the prospect of more money is always appealing! (I grew up in a low-income household and have anxiety around money.) He said to just pick the job I wanted to do the most, but I feel like I want to do both? Adding to the problem is that I’m a people-pleaser and I don’t want to disappoint anyone! How can I decide?

    1. ferrina*

      Start with a thought experiment- imagine that both jobs paid the same. Which boss do you feel best about working for? Which team do you feel best about working for? Which culture do you feel best about working for?
      Now- which job responsibilities do you most want? Or are there pros and cons to both?
      Look at your answers to those questions- which job is standing out? Is that salary reasonable for that job?

      Salary is nice, but quality of life will make the money stretch farther. Happiness has monetary value- it leads to better health outcomes, better life habits, and a continuing cycle of growth. Confidence means that when you need more money, you have the skills to get what you need to make more money. I know it wasn’t true in your childhood, but money is now a renewable resource.

      For the people pleasing, the biggest way to disappoint someone is to agree to do something that you don’t truly want to do. So figure out what you truly want to do. Do that thing. You will make a lot of people happy that way- your employer (whichever that should be), your husband (who will be thrilled to see you prioritize what you love) and yourself!! A good employer will understand that the thing that makes you happy is a can’t-miss opportunity, and even if they’re a little disappointed, they’ll be happy that you are happy. I’ve had good people leave/say no, and though I was a little sad for me, that sadness was eclipsed by how happy I was for them. Sometimes the greatest gift to others is to do what you love.

      I hope this helps! You sound like a lovely person.

    2. Colette*

      I see a bunch of reasons why you should stay where you are, and the only reasons why you should go back are that that was your plan several months ago and you might eventually want to work in that area. I say stay where you are, and consider your former company when you’re actually ready to move.

  99. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

    Is anyone in innovation management or a strategic innovation role? I am looking to make some major changes this year, but the first step is to transition to something more interesting workwise. Ive done a lot of similar/adjacent work in my career, and recent “innovation” work but Id like to know more about the day to day and common pitfalls.

  100. OyHiOh*

    Question for the librarians on the blog:

    Our local library district is hiring for a new position that, from the looks of the hiring link, is equal part “librarian” and “niche industry.” If we’re strictly looking at the niche industry part of the job description, I’m a strong, well qualified candidate. If I look at the “librarian” part, it’s foolish to even think about applying (for one, I do not have a Masters/Library Science). Is it worth applying?

    For what it’s worth, my boss says he’ll write a letter of recommendation addressing the degree issue but if they really want a “librarian” who has a bit of side knowledge in “niche industry” than I’m not sure it’s worth the effort.

    1. academic librarian too*

      that depends- if the librarian part is information access or cataloging pretty sure you need the librarian experience.

      If it is reference and customer service , you may have a shot.

      1. OyHiOh*

        Duties seem to mostly be reference and customer service. I’m slowly leaning towards apply because, if they can’t find a librarian with niche industry knowledge/background, then they may be willing to adjust the job description a bit and hiring someone with strong industry knowledge/background.

        The low end of the pay range is double what I’m making now, so even if they offered on the low end to compensate for lack information access/cataloging training, I’d still be doing very well.

    2. dear liza dear liza*

      If there’s no requirement for an MLIS, I would apply. Libraries are more and more frequently hiring outside the field, especially for technology and social work. In those circumstances, they usually want to make sure the person basically understands what a library does and is user/public-focused, with good interpersonal skills.

      1. OyHiOh*

        You know, that’s an interesting point, as I go back to the hiring link for, like the fourth time!

        “Education and Experience: A Masters Degree in Library Science from a college or university accredited by the American Library Association. A minimum of two years of work experience which provides a solid understanding of [redacted, niche industry] principles is preferred. Experience working in a public library setting is desirable.”

        Although that leads with degree, they don’t say it’s required or preferred. I interpret “first line of the paragraph as most important/required” but that’s not what’s written.

        1. RagingADHD*

          I think the way it is worded means the degree is required, for sure. Then they list the preference, then what’s desired.

          If you aren’t sure you can always call and ask.

        2. OyHiOh*

          Thank you for waying this. I’m well aware that my anxieties frequently translate into inferring things that aren’t necessarily there, so I appreciate that I’m not the only one who read MLIS as required.

        3. A Library Person*

          I agree with RagingADHD. In my experience, if they’re leading with the MLIS it’s probably required. However, there is a possibility you could still get the job if the niche knowledge is really important and no one has both qualifications. You just don’t know if they’re going to use the degree as a weeder.

    3. Grace Less*

      What do you have to lose by applying? It sounds like your current boss is aware and supportive of you pursuing a new opportunity, so I don’t see a downside in putting yourself forward. I vote “go for it!”

  101. Chirpy*

    Well, I finally let something big “slide” because I was swamped and prioritizing the live animals over objects (not even, someone else volunteered to do it for me), and STILL got chewed out for not asking for help “properly”. Gah.

    Here’s hoping I get the apartment, though?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      My favorite thing to do in these situations is to ask the person to go over with you step by step what you did this time and what you should do differently in the future. This will either highlight that you did everything right, or it will set you up for success next time. Either way definitely follow up with an email confirming the process with them for you to reference in the future if they get mad at you again for the same thing.

      Sorry you’re swamped and management sounds unhelpful, I hope you get the apartment!

      1. Chirpy*

        It’s a sort of situation that requires hiring 2-3 more people, which should have been done over a year ago, there’s just no other way around it. And it was the kind of day I was so busy I couldn’t even get a chance to ask for help because customers were lining up.

        Also, corporate decided we don’t need email, and our new “social media-like” messaging system has no way to do private messages. Which is incredibly problematic and hinders my ability to do my job. :p

        1. allathian*

          Oof, that’s… Let’s just say that there’s no way I’d ever be happy working in an environment like that.

  102. academic librarian too*

    Its self appraisal time. Pretty universal hated. Makes no difference in salary. Have to fight with my supervisor to get the highest rating. (unsuccessful 80 percent of the time) Did I mention the salary increase is 2%?
    Maybe on the highest level.
    So do I…
    spend very little of my finite life on this- copying last years, barely updating my cv and statement and basically setting out the same goals etc

    Give up the weekend to revise and stew?

    Write an outlandish one for my own amusement.

    During this 2nd year of pandemic and social unrest, ALT displayed a remarkable lack of engagement in all facets of her position. Her HR assigned mentee failed to achieve promotion despite evenings and weekends devoted to coaching said individual. Numerous classes were no-shows and canceled often without an hours notice wasting hours of prep time and tanking departmental statistics. Covid variants surging returned ALT to locking down and zooming when the rest of her cohort continued to behave as if there was no cause for any concern as the masking mandates were lifted. Having excelled in their performance during the 2020-21 year and receiving little positive feedback including a denial of an excellent rating and o percent salary increase, ATM selected fewer opportunities for service and publication during the ’21-’22 academic year. Goals: to survive until ’23.

    (These are the times that I wish I just didn’t care)
    For fun could the commentariot post the appraisal words they like the best?
    Maybe I can just cut and paste.
    I’ll start
    facilitated, achieved, completed, excelled.

    1. the cat's ass*

      This is beautiful.

      Those self-appraisals are terrible.

      There’s also compiled, collected, addressed.

        2. Academic Librarian too*

          Let me google that for you.

          Make a list…
ADJECTIVE
          
VERB ENDING IN _ING
          
PLURAL NOUN
          
VERB ENDING IN _ING
          
PLURAL NOUN
          
ADVERB
          
ADJECTIVE
          
VERB ENDING IN _ING
          
NOUN
          
ADJECTIVE
          …and fill in your answers here.
          This year, I made it my goal to be the most (ADJECTIVE) member of the team. I am pleased to say that I met this goal by (VERB ENDING IN -ING) as many (PLURAL NOUN) as possible. I also led the department in (VERB ENDING IN _ING) the most (PLURAL NOUN), a job I accomplished (ADVERB). Next year, I hope to be even more (ADJECTIVE). If I had to pick areas to improve, I would say I have a difficult time (VERB ENDING IN _ING) my (NOUN), and sometimes need to be more (ADJEC

          1. The cat's pajamas*

            OMG I’m imagining this as the review for Mr. Tulip from The Truth by Terry Pratchett, lol

  103. Texan In Exile*

    How many of you have been vindicated at work? As in, how many of you have gotten to enjoy the experience of learning that the jerk VP who made your life miserable and eliminated your position HAS BEEN FIRED?

    That happened for me this week.

    I wish this joy for everyone.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      Congrats!

      I got some delicious schadenfreude when my last job went rotten and I left/was pushed out – I thought I was an idiot because everyone else seemed to be adjusting to the company changes just fine, only to find out that I was apparently the canary in the coal mine and everything went belly up shortly after I left, to the point that they weren’t sure if the company was viable. It was delightful after so much misery to hear about people leaving in droves and being told I was smart to get out when I did.

      Vindication!

    2. Glad to escape*

      A month ago we were notified of an RFP being posted by a previous bad customer. My reflex response to our internal bid team was “No Bid”. I got immediate pushback from our sales rep (who is new to the account and the company) and the manufacturer sales rep. We started our process, submitted questions, and waited.

      The customer flat lied during the Zoom bid introduction meeting and the documents posted as a response to technical questions had been modified and were incomplete as a result.

      We finally decided to No Bid yesterday, my sales rep and his VP will notify the manufacturer rep soon, so they can find another partner to respond to the RFP.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’ve mentioned this before, but I had someone call for a reference on my horrible, horrible former boss. I was obviously not listed as a reference, but this person knew me and wanted to hear from someone who had been managed by the horrible boss. It was glorious.

    4. Learning&Development*

      Yes!!! I wanted to retire from that job and had already had significant time there before the princess arrived. She spent the next several years working very hard to push me out of the organization. I can’t give a lot of details due to the risk of identifying her, but she ticked off a long-time volunteer (who was also a friend). That volunteer went to the CEO and said that she wanted this person fired. BOOM! CEO fired her. What a wonderful feeling that was!

    5. The New Wanderer*

      This was a while ago, but there was once a VP of our division who tanked a big-deal project through micromanagement. A couple of very senior people calculated the hours spent on meeting his micromanaging requirements (e.g. he changed the required ppt template again this week, please reformat everything again!) vs actual project work and presented that to him, which he of course ignored. The very senior people left for a competitor and within the year the VP was shunted sideways to a much smaller post in another country.

      More recently, a month before I left due to career stagnation courtesy of misogynistic grand-boss, grand-boss lost out on a promotion for the second time (to a woman) and took a completely different position in another division where he will not be managing anyone.

  104. Chirpy*

    Also, GAH WHY DO ALL MY COWORKERS COMPLAIN ABOUT SILENCE?? All I want is to eat lunch in peace without stupid soaps or game shows playing ALL THE TIME.

    I realize, yes, I can eat in my car, but not if I want hot food, or if it’s bad weather. I work here too, and I try to go to lunch not at the busiest time, but people act like I’m insane for asking.

    1. Chirpy*

      Also, for the record, I turned the TV off because I was the only one in the room, someone else came in afterwards and told me to go outside if I didn’t like noise. :/

      1. Antilles*

        That’s just rude. The usual custom I’ve seen is just that whoever’s there first basically gets “dibs” on the TV. You choosing the “silence” channel is no different than if you walked in while someone else was watching TV, grabbed the remote off the table, and flipped the channel to something else.

        1. Chirpy*

          I mean, that’s what I thought. I don’t turn the TV off if other people are in there.

    2. Sunshine*

      Oof. For me the sound of someone chewing in a silent room would be enough to have me run screaming from the building. Sorry, Chirpy, but I’m with your coworkers on this one.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Agreed – Personally I hate silence, and in general I think it’s a lot more difficult to default to the needs of someone who wants silence in group settings because noise naturally happens with people, but if you’re alone and you turn off the TV I’m not sure how that hurts anyone.

          1. Chirpy*

            It’s not even that there’s not silence that’s the real problem, it’s that the noisy ones absolutely can’t understand why someone might possibly need a little quiet, especially on break from a noisy job. I very much function better in quiet (or orchestral music with no distracting words) with just ambient noise, which I get is not an option at this job, but if I can just get a break from loudness it really does help, especially on stressful days.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m with you – I’d like a quiet room. A little background noise is okay but soaps and game shows are not Muzak… they’re intrusive!

  105. Dragonfly7*

    Folks in healthcare tech support, are there any red flags I should watch out for during interviews or in job ads? And do you have any comments/advice to share about obtaining Epic certification?
    Fingers crossed the prescreen I did yesterday turns into an interview. I hadn’t considered applying in healthcare before, but as I learn more from researching this particular position, I am definitely open to it.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Last time I looked at it, Epic certification is crazy expensive to get as an individual and will only be useful if your hospital system is actually an Epic shop. (But mine is not, we’re Cerner, so it’s admittedly been a hot minute since I looked at it.)

  106. Ruth*

    Help! My former peer is now my boss and she’s a micro manager.

    I’m talking – I need to have a meeting before I can send an email micro-manager. Never reconsiders if I disagree with her micro-manager. Makes me want to cry during the work day micro-manager.

    I’m working on a project that I really want to launch before I move on, because it will be a really good line on my resume. How do I keep myself from being completely miserable at work until then?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      I love Alison’s advice to pretend you’re an anthropologist studying a new culture. Rather than think of the awful things she’s putting you through as a struggle to endure, try and reframe them as “this culture has some strange customs that I must observe whilst I live among them”. Some mental distance from the situation might help you survive!

      Also, maybe see what’s out there right now? I have no idea how big of a line item this project might be to have on your resume, but I would consider if it’s really worth sticking around for just to say you completed it. You can at least put that you’re working on it now, and who knows how long it will take you to find a job you really like, the project may have launched by then!

      1. Ruth*

        These are good thoughts. It’s just such a bummer because she was once the peer I would have complained about micromanagement to! I hate that our dynamic has changed so much.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          If she’s new to management, I wonder if she is acting like that because of nerves about this new role and just doesn’t recognize that what she’s doing is the definition of micro-management?

          I’d say let the disagreement thing go if you can – it’s her call if she wants to disregard others’ input and it’ll also be her responsibility if she turns out to be wrong. But if she’s having you take a lot of extra steps to do normal work stuff, that’s worth having a conversation about. Do you have the kind of rapport where you could gently inquire as to why, for example, you need to meet before creating an email? Maybe with framing about efficient use of both of your time, because there will be a real work impact to this if it continues (not least of which if it drives you and others out!).

  107. FinallyFridayandNowThis*

    Plea to all Managers/Directors out there… don’t send a note out of the blue Friday afternoon saying … Can we meet Monday morning and give NO other information or assurances … Thanks to a past Director and toxic work environment, this just guarantees I’m going to think about this meeting all weekend and worry.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      I’d follow up with your manager and ask for some context for the meeting. Nothing wrong with asking for more information rather than suffering all weekend!

      1. HR Newgee*

        +1! Asking for context is definitely appropriate! You could also ask your manager/director if there is anything you needed to prepare prior to the meeting, I find it’s an easy segway into discussing meeting info.

        1. FinallyFridayandNowThis*

          Yeah, I asked if there was anything I needed to bring or prepare and was just told “No”. I’m updating my resume this weekend.

    2. Firm Believer*

      One hundred percent agree. I have never done that and I tell my managers never to do that.

      I will also say that juniors shouldn’t do it to their bosses either. No one deserves a sleepless weekend.

  108. AlabamaAnonymous*

    I’m really not sure if this post belongs on today’s thread or tomorrow’s. But I’ll put it here and it can be deleted if needed. But have any of you watched any videos from fannyb_gc on tiktok? She posts work-related satire videos that are both hilarious and sometimes too-close-to-home. If you need a laugh today, I highly recommend!

    I’ll post a link to one of my favorites in a reply.

  109. Retail Not Retail*

    I asked last week about HR and “light duty” and well I got lucky and was able to have a second release letter sent to me without seeing the doctor.

    However, no one from HR has discussed the restrictions with me or decided what I’m doing after this week! There was supposed to be a meeting yesterday with all relevant parties but it never happened so I’m left in the dark.

    I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do so I’ll just hurry up and wait.

  110. Me--Blargh!*

    I am going to cry.

    The job with the weird psych test rejected me, but I was actually relieved. During the second interview, numerous red flags popped up:

    –No physical location (due to a pandemic-related lease lapse) and no indication if or when they would go back to an office or just use co-working spaces. Incredibly vague language regarding this.
    — The job was one person doing multiple things because they “can’t afford” to compartmentalize. They’ve been using co-op students from a local university. This made me extremely nervous regarding the pay I asked for and her assertion that it was reasonable and they could maybe pay moving expenses too. Like, what? How can you afford that?
    –She mentioned that business had taken a downturn because she was doing all the duties of the employee they were replacing instead of pursuing new business. So if one person is absent, the entire thing begins to flail?
    –She couldn’t answer all my questions about benefits. She said the person who administers all that would know. This person is a named partner in the company, and she could not give me the name of the healthcare.
    –Everyone is doing BYOD currently. I asked if they provide company equipment and she said, “That’s something we should do.” Sure, Jan.

    It seemed like the company infrastructure was made of Tinkertoys. I was very disappointed. And in the next 48 hours, I got three more rejections from companies that didn’t even want to talk to me and have re-posted the same jobs they rejected me for.

    I feel like Leslie Knope on Parks and Rec asking, “Why do good guys hate me and gross guys love me?” Are all these people really desperate for employees, or are they just lying liars who lie?

    :'(

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      Well Leslie ended up with Ben who is wonderful, so you’re just waiting for your Ben job to come around!

    2. Julie*

      I’m sorry that you’re feeling awful; it’s a hard situation to be in.

      With respect and gentleness, I wonder if employers are picking up on the sentiments you express here? You’ve used the “lying liars who lie” line before and you talk a lot about all the things that are wrong with potential opportunities, like this one. That mindset isn’t healthy and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s coming out, perhaps subconsciously, in the way you interact with potential employers.

      Also, what salary range are you looking for? You want a full-time permanent job with healthcare, with a non-management advancement track which is already ruling out a lot of jobs that would be an improvement in your current situation. Again, with respect and gentleness, are you being honest with yourself about the real market conditions for what you offer, or are you being unrealistic and blaming every employer for being gross liars?

      I hire people and I think I work for a good employer. We provide excellent salary and benefits, flexible working options, access to valuable training and excellent career progression opportunities. We hire from entry level to experienced professionals. But when people with limited work experience and very common skills indicate an attitude of being unsure whether my job is good enough for them, they don’t get an offer. Perfectly nice (I assume) people whose salary and benefits demands are way out of step with their skills and experience don’t get short-listed for interview.

      I’m not a liar and I’m not gross, and to be honest I’m tired of you framing us all that way. Please think about whether as your scouring employers for red flags you might be raising a whole lot yourself.

      1. Middle School Teacher*

        I agree and I was going to add, again kindly, that I feel as though employers are seeing a ton red flags on EW’s resume. I read this post as honestly a lot of sour grapes. Respectfully EW, you need to take what you can get and start to build some credibility in the workplace.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      I guess I’m wondering why you seem so worried about what you’re calling red flags, when you also post quite a bit about how you really need a paycheck. Why not take a job with a company where the management may very well be a clownshow, and just sock away the money that you earn in the meantime? Even if the company goes belly-up in six months, that’s six months’ worth of income that you have, in the end.

      Regarding the benefits question, that really is a question for the person in the benefits administration role. The company owner or partner may honestly not know how it all works. I’m afraid I don’t see it as a “red flag” that they couldn’t answer you.

      1. Bette Davis Eyes*

        I agree, sometimes a crappy job is better than no job at all, especially if you’ve been unemployed for a long time and you want money to fund your future plans.

        I have a friend who recently decided to shutter her photography business and is entering the workforce after many years of being self-employed. She recently got a remote job for a start up that has several red flags (think the “we want full time work for a position that pays part time, we work hard and play hard, go getters will thrive here!”) but she bit the bullet and took it because she needs a job and she needs traditional work experience again. Her plan is to keep looking for a better job while she’s employed and it’s certainly easier when she has $$ money coming in and isn’t worried about her savings dwindling,

        I do agree there were some red flags about the job (although to me, the biggest ones were about the business experiencing a downturn and the job being a combination of responsibilities because they couldn’t afford to compartmentalize them anymore), but if you’ve been out of the work force for as long as OP has, it can be a stepping stone to getting back in there. And then you have a built in answer for when employers ask why you’re leaving your current job (“the business has taken a downturn and there’s been a lot of belt tightening and I just don’t see opportunities for growth there, etc”)

      2. Willis*

        100%. For most people, jobs aren’t like dating where you can just live your life until the right one comes along. If you need a paycheck – and especially if you’re not a super competitive candidate or don’t have much recent or relevant experience – you may have to take something that’s less than ideal. But you can use that experience to build to something that has more of what you’re looking for. I feel like Alison’s written a bunch of posts about that!

        1. justabot*

          Agreed. The reality is that most jobs have good parts and frustrating parts and tolerable parts. Most people have to work to live and pay bills. It doesn’t mean doing something that makes you absolutely miserable, but holding out for some perfect sounding situation isn’t always realistic. And even with something that seems “perfect,” the truth is that people are people and bad managers happen or a good leader leaves or departments get reorganized or budgets get cut and things change. Most situations aren’t all good or all bad. Even people who “love” their jobs can probably point to some aspects of their companies that would sound like “red flags” to an outsider, but in reality, it just comes with the job. It doesn’t mean everything about the place is toxic or that it’s not worth the paycheck.

    4. Cpt Morgan*

      At this point, I genuinely can’t believe that you would say even one thing that would force an employer to question whether to hire you. Any job after, what, a decade of unemployment would do more wonders for your resume than finding the “perfect” job.

      I would honestly caution you against asking even one question about benefits or relocation expenses in the future.

      1. bluephone*

        God knows retail is still a job seeker’s market right now.
        (And please miss me with the dyscalculia excuse. I have that too but have held down retail cashier jobs. The register literally does all the damn work. And places like Walmart are phasing out manned registers for self-checkout machines that don’t even accept cash—but they still need human employees to stand around for alcohol and tobacco ID validation, or to enter a login code if the register throws a hissy, usually about bags. There is nothing stopping you from getting one of those jobs except your own snobbery about blue collar work).

    5. Regular Lurker*

      I’m really sorry that this one hasn’t worked out for you. Can I offer a perspective that I’m not sure you’re taking into account?

      You talk a lot about red flags – some of which are more legit than others. The thing is that, while the market is favourable to jobseekers at the moment, you’re still asking employers to take a bit of a risk on you. AFAIK you have a pretty big resume gap and are aiming for roles that sound like stretch positions, while also looking for good salary and benefits, WFH and moving expenses as well.

      Some wonderful, legit, functional companies might take a risk and offer all that to someone with minimal work history/experience out of the goodness of their hearts. But you’ll likely find that companies will have a reason to take that risk on you, whether it’s because they have issues retaining people, they’re really struggling to recruit in their local area, the work itself is less desirable, the compensation package isn’t great, whatever. So I think you need to really really think about what red flags you are willing to deal with to get a foot on the ladder, because you are going to keep encountering them until you build up enough of a resume to be picky.

  111. TechWorker*

    What is the most productive way to raise that you are underpaid?

    I recently got a promotion with basically no pay rise. I know from talking to others than others in my grade are earning 20-30k more than me. Two of my reports who are at the grade below earn more than me, one of them by ~20k.

    Corporate has not prioritised pay in budgets (despite performance/profit being good) and I know for a fact that the lack of pay is not directly my manager or managers’ manager’s choice.

    But also! I should be paid more and if I went anywhere else I would be! I’d just rather not leave because my company culture *is* good, maybe manager is great, and clearly they do have the budget to pay *some* people that much, so why not me :p I am also a) female in a very male dominated industry and b) younger than most of the people at my grade but idk whether mentioning this would help or hurt me.

    I need to raise this with my manager – looking for advice on the most productive way to do this. I’m tempted to write something down because I probably have a habit of sounding too positive/complacent in person.

    1. irene adler*

      Might start with a list of accomplishments. And salary data showing what the ‘going rate’ in for your position (sure, that data should include folks in your pay grade). AND, so that there’s no uncertainty, name a salary figure. Don’t let them decide the salary figure.
      I

    2. OyHiOh*

      My boss and I have a very friendly relationship. My two female colleagues and I basically tell him what to do fairly regularly.

      I marched into his office about six weeks ago and said hey, I’m looking at six hiring opportunities that are all easily within my skill set, pay double what I’m making right now. You’ve alluded to wanting to bump me to FT/salaried. What’s the timeline for that?

      He asked a few questions about who had caught my eye, salary ranges/benefits.

      I walked out of his office twenty minutes later with the understanding that, assuming nothing goes sideways in the interval, I’ll go FT/salary/benefits at a level that’s acceptable to all, at the beginning of June.

      I’m still applying for outside roles (he said, definitely don’t stop applying) because I don’t trust that bird in hand until I actually have the first paycheck at the new rate!

      1. Can't think of a funny name*

        I’m doing something very similar…told my boss I found multiple jobs paying 30-40% more than I was currently making and I was going to start applying b/c I couldn’t justify to myself making so much less…he was able to get me a 25% raise.

  112. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

    The ED of my department sent out an email with communication letters intending to go to every member of our student body (8,000+ students) over the next 2 months. He did not ask for feedback, he simply said “here is the communication that will be sent out”.
    Y’all. They are packed to the gills with errors (grammatical errors, half-written thoughts, incorrect links), with completely inconsistent use of typeface and size. They are a nightmare to read and I am mortified at the thought of students receiving them.
    I cannot ask to edit them, because he will say no, he does not need them edited (but oh my god, yes you do my dude!). What is a nice, professional way to say “WTF. These are very bad and also very wrong, and I have fixed all of the truly ridiculous errors.”? Does saying “Hi Fergus, I have made some edits to correct a few errors and improve readability.” sound okay?

    1. HHD*

      That’s what I went for for years and it always went down broadly OK! Make it clear you’re not editing for content (even though you wish you could)

    2. Doctor is In*

      Longtime amateur editor here. I would be SOOOO tempted to revise it completely, send it out without discussion with the ED, and go down in a blaze of glory if fired! (Wishful thinking I know!)

  113. Incoming Principal*

    I am about to be shipped to Dubai for 3 months to do a strategy consulting project for a luxury firm ran by a local wealthy family. I know that the family members are very involved in meetings etc. so am already thinking what to wear to have them focus on my work rather than all my faux pas. My clients so far have been on the smart business casual end (in rainy UK). I have never worked in the gulf region so clueless about what to expect.
    Anyone here working in professional services (e.g. strategy consulting) could help me out with what to pack as a woman to be professional, respectful of the local culture, but still able to function in the sweltering heat?

    1. Alexis Rosay*

      I’ve worked in the Middle East (mostly not in the Gulf, but I have worked there a little). I wore a lot of button-down shirts made of light material and dress pants. Bear in mind you’re not going to be spending that much time outside unless your work specifically had to be done outdoors like supervising a construction site or something, it’ll be mostly in air-conditioned offices. I will say that my button-downs made me the most conservatively dressed person in the room a lot of the time, but I tended to err on the side of caution. There’s a lot of areas of the Gulf where you can wear whatever professional clothes you would wear in the US, and people will just have something longer with them to cover up if need be.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Lightweight, natural fabrics – cotton, linen- they breathe. Long sleeves, longish skirts or loose pants. You will be sufficiently covered, and allow for airflow. Dubai is pretty accustomed to Westerners, so you will likely be fine for business meetings etc. – but the broader society is more conservative so you need to keep that in mind when shopping or going out to eat.

    3. ATLHistoryGeek*

      Just to echo what everyone else is saying .. think conservative ‘western’ office clothes and you’ll be fine! As a woman all over the middle east, I wore pants without a problem, twin sets, etc. I did make sure my ‘short sleeve’ casual shirts had longer sleeves then in the US, think closer to elbow length and not tank tops or even cap sleeves, and shirts had higher necklines (HIGH v necks, mock turtle necks, or regular crew necks). There were some restrictions in restaurants but I also usually carried a lightweight sweater with me and that would always work. Jeans and slacks, longer ‘cropped’ pants were fine. If you visit any of the mosques, they will let you borrow a robe and hair scarf for free from the ‘tourist’ stock they keep there. Remember to take off your shoes, too, before you go in. Enjoy the pink taxis and the experience! :-) I was there for work often and honestly never had a problem in business settings or out and about. You may encounter some creeps but it’s no different then creeps in the US or Europe :-)

  114. Accidental Itenerate Teacher*

    Does anyone here know how COBRA/Continuing insurance coverage is supposed to work?
    I left my job the middle of last month. I filled out the paperwork and left a payment for continuing my insurance before I left. I tried to go to the doctor this week only to find out I have no insurance.
    When I talked to the insurance company they had no record of continuance paperwork being filed, but the paperwork about me no longer being an employee had been filed on the 20th.
    I contacted my former boss about it- to find out what was happening and make sure the payment I left was for April like I’d thought and not for the end of March or something like that. She confirmed that the payment was for April but that “it takes time for the insurance company to reinstate you”
    I’m wondering is this true? If it is how long am I looking at?
    I’m working on getting other coverage, but was relying on having this coverage as a stopgap so I could research what I want.

    1. Anony*

      Read through your COBRA paperwork. This sounds like an administrative error to me, like maybe someone did not file your paperwork. If your former company uses a TPA, then you can contact them directly for an update. Otherwise, escalate this issue to your HR folks. It should not take more than 1 business day to address. If you need to, you can pay out of pocket at the doctor and submit for reimbursement afterwards. Once your coverage is reinstated, it should go retroactive to the date it originally ended as a result of end of employment.

      1. Accidental Itenerate Teacher*

        Thanks.
        I’m trying to get the contact information for the company’s insurance person. My ex-boss keeps saying she’ll send it and then just not doing it. I’ll probably have to contact her about it again next week.
        Unfortunately the company doesn’t have HR so that way isn’t an option.

    2. BRR*

      Last time I was on cobra it took awhile for someone at my employer or insurance company to process things and it was a huge headache for me (me being the only person who didn’t make a mistake). I can’t remember the exact details but I had to do a lot of following up to get confirmation, otherwise it would have been past the month I paid for by the time it was processed. And have my claims processed after was also a huge hassle (an audit from the insurance company later found that they approved a claim when I “wasn’t covered.”) I vaguely recall paying one doctor as if I had no insurance and then submitting a claim later.

      1. Accidental Itenerate Teacher*

        Yeah, that’s what I’m worried is going to happen here- I’m not there anymore so they don’t have any urgency to file the paperwork and I have to keep bugging them to make it happen.

    3. mreasy*

      This happened to me and it was because my job had made an error. That seems like the issue here.

      1. Accidental Itenerate Teacher*

        Thanks, I figured that was the case, but its good to get confirmation that I’m not just being paranoid.

  115. Mrs Peel*

    At the end of last year, without having another job lined up, I jumped ship due to a toxic work environment. I was going to re-train in an entirely different industry this spring, but due to various reasons I’m going to have to find full-time work again. Now I’m wondering how to handle requests for references: I remained professional as I was leaving, however I didn’t hold back in my exit interview with HR. I have previous managers who will provide me with references, but none of them work for the company any more as they left for similar reasons. Now I’m worried companies are going to be suspicious if I’m unable to provide references from my most recent manager, but he was completely incompetent and a large part of the reason why I left.

    Has anyone else been in a similar situation? How did you handle things?

    1. Mrs Peel*

      Although it’s now occurring to me that I’m going to have to explain why I left my previous job in the first place, so I guess that’s something I’ll have to tackle first.

    2. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      Why do you have to use your most recent manager? How about saying Fergus was my manager at Teapots Inc, however he has since left and works at Saucers Inc.? I don’t think companies would think it unexpected that since you’ve been out for a little bit that your manager also moved on.

  116. And so it goes*

    How do you keep track of your to-do list?

    I go to lots of meetings in which I’m assigned or volunteer to do tasks. It’s also not uncommon for me to be walking from one part of the organization to another to be spontaneously stopped and asked if I could do X, Y, or Z. And of course, there are the requests via email, Teams, etc.

    Consequently, I have notes all over the place: in my notebook, on my computer, in email, on sticky notes. Anyone have tips/tricks/strategies for making sure you don’t drop any balls?

    1. Professor Plum*

      For the people who stop you in the hallway, ask them to email the request to you. Then you can add it to whatever system you land on

      1. House Tyrell*

        Really depends on your personal organization style but Asana works well for my office, especially on projects that involve a lot of people. I also personally like to use an Eisenhower Box method when determining the order in which I do tasks by considering urgency and due dates (at this point I just mentally assign everything, but you can write or draw out the box and list tasks if that’s your preference!)

        If people are stopping you in hallways, tell them to email you the information!

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      If you use outlook and Teams, I really like collecting tasks in Microsoft To Do—you can add them automatically from Outlook by flagging and email and add a teams chat as a task by clicking the three dots -> more actions. Definitely not perfect but I find it helpful.

    3. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      Pre-COVID I used my white board at my desk to keep a running list because I’m in a cube farm and people could come by and take a look at where their item was on my list, or point out that it wasn’t there. I used to take Friday afternoons and update the board. Now I try to take a few minutes at the end of each day and update a word doc I have on Microsoft Teams (I’m a small team manager and often times we will split the tasks up, or just one person gets the email not the entire team). We meet once a week to go over the sheet. It helps me keep track…getting it all done, that’s another story…

    4. TechWorker*

      I use Trello and quite like it – I have the app on my phone so I can add things even if not at my laptop, and just being able to write down at any point removes some of the stress of trying to remember everything.

    5. PollyQ*

      First things first, pick ONE place for all your to-do’s to live. If you can’t add something to it immediately (e.g., via a phone app), then you’ll have to be disciplined about transferring everything there as soon as possible. I like apps like Workflowy & Google Keep myself.

    6. Former Curator*

      I’m an admin with lots of small tasks to do and a brain like a sieve. If I want to get everything done, I need to write it down! I’ve come up with a hybrid solution of flagging all emails I need to follow up on (I also use the reminder function), and an elaborate to-do list in One Note.

      For One Note, I have a tab for every month, and then a page for every day in the month. On the left side I have things to discuss with my boss, meetings to schedule, and my day-to-day to dos. On the right side, I have things that I don’t need to do right away, but which I need to follow up on (e.g. action items from regular meetings, agendas for upcoming meetings, notes for a project I’m working on, etc.). At the end of every day I review it and add what I need to do the next day. Then I copy the note, re-name it to the next work day, delete all the items I checked off, and boom! I know where to start the next day.

    7. Policy Wonk*

      In addition to online tools, I never go anywhere with ought a small notebook. I find physically writing the task down helps me remember it, plus I have the record. I also keep visible on my physical desk top a written list of today’s must do tasks so that they are close to hand. At the end of the day I tear out and toss the page and start over the next day. Computer reminders are very helpful in keeping me on track in general, but I have yet to find anything that works for me like the old school notebook.

  117. stitchinthyme*

    For the few people who saw my question last week about how to deal with a surgeon’s office that was not answering their phones or responding to messages, a quick update: I did finally get through to them. Turned out the reason they hadn’t contacted me was that although I had received notice of the insurance approval for my surgery last week, the surgeon’s office didn’t get it until this week. Would have been nice if they’d responded to my message to let me know that, but whatever, it’s done and I’m all scheduled now.

    I did not end up having to go there in person and demand to speak to someone, thankfully, although it wasn’t until Wednesday that they finally got back to me. (And no, I was not rude to them in any way. A little frustrated, yes, but I remained polite.)

  118. HR Newgee*

    HR Professionals!

    I just got hired for my first ever HR role, I’ll be transitioning from an unrelated role. Any tips or things you wish you knew before you started in HR would be sooo helpful!!

    Thanks!

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      The social transition is tough. You have to be a lot more aware of what you are sharing with people, what kind of conversations you’re engaged with, and how you interact with your peers (especially those not in HR). That can be especially tricky if you have established relationships. You might become privy to new information about people and you definitely need to be discreet.

      People have a lot of weird opinions about what is and isn’t legal? As a new HR person you might not have a lot of those conversations but you might overhear weird things and you should ALWAYS do your own research or verify with legal until you’re confident in your own knowledge. You are part of the AAM community so you’ve probably seen a lot of this already but it becomes weirdly salient once you’re in an HR role.

      A lot of people have no idea what HR does! Inside and outside your company people might say odd things to you about your job.

    2. Anony*

      I read a lot of this blog as well as the SHRM board. I’d also recommend attending SHRM webinars for the technical knowledge. Depending on the work you do, you can read resources related (i.e. LOA admin can read FMLA employer guide). Remember above all, HR must be objective and confidential.

  119. Neuroindecisive*

    I got an email from the head of HR last week suggesting that she would like to hear my opinion/perspective as part of the company thinking about how to best/better support neurodiversity in the office. It was less out of the blue than this sounds, and I like and trust our HR dept or I wouldn’t have disclosed my autism when I was diagnosed last year, my unease comes from the fact that I feel incredibly unqualified to contribute.

    So in case I do end up having this conversation, are there any general ideas that would be good to highlight? Things the company is already doing well include a history of agreeing to flexible work patterns, a flexible hours policy, and while there is a 20% in-office requirement that is also pretty flexible (I do two mornings a week, for example).

    1. Neuroindecisive*

      I never know whether my questions in these open threads don’t get replies because people don’t have replies to offer or because people don’t see them once they get out of moderation.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        “neuro” goes to moderation (because that’s been the only thing that’s had success in cutting down on problematic armchair diagnosing in the comments) so switching your user name should solve it!

    2. Rosie*

      I think if you want to just focus on your experience that is absolutely fine, presumably they are asking you because they want you to contribute your perspective to the overall picture – and you are thoroughly qualified to talk about that! You could also share any good resources or advocacy organisations you’ve found which HR might be able to access going forward.

    3. Scotlibrarian*

      Oh my, um this is a special interest of mine, and I work part time as a trainer and consultant for organisations who want to be autism inclusive employers. So, the things you mention are great, but if your recruitment system is a huge hurdle, then many autistic people won’t even get in the door. Make sure your adverts and job descriptions are clear in stating what you are looking for, lay out what is essential and what desirable. Ensure that what you ask for is what you need, eg if you say ‘good communication skills are essential’, that may be true, but it might be that good written communication is needed, but the person does not need good verbal communication skills. Many autistic people will take what is said in the job description and ad as being 100% necessary. Also, your company needs to let disabled folk know that it is safe to disclose their diagnosis at the application stage – maybe the ad could say ‘we work hard to be disability and neurodivergent friendly and would like to discuss ways to make interviews more accessible to you, if you are asked to interview we’ll ask if you have a disability and how we can make interviewing better’. Then ensure hiring managers follow up with this and offer eg rooms with non bright lights, little noise, offer interview questions in advance (you could do this for everyone), send out a picture of the room and the hiring manager before an in person interview, have instructions of how to get to your office and what to do when they get there (eg introduce yourself to receptionist and they will take you to a waiting area where you will wait until called into the room). I’d be happy to discuss this more, or you could pass to your HR that there are some great autistic led trainings available that cover this stuff. Contact me if you’d like info about the online one I do with other autistic trainers

  120. Cheezmouser*

    What do you do if your new boss may have a wildly inaccurate perception of you?

    I’m a senior manager reporting to a new director. The director is new to our team but has been with our company for 5+ years. We’ve worked together on past projects, so she knew me when she got promoted a few months ago. Since I began reporting to her, we’ve done nothing but butt heads. She now seems to have a negative impression of me, which I don’t think is necessarily fair.

    Recent incidents:
    -I’ve always been a work horse, but even my colleagues have expressed concern about my workload recently. When I tried to raise that my workload was unsustainable and we needed to reprioritize some projects, instead of believing me, my boss suggested I try better time management. When I pushed back, she reassigned 2 of my projects (out of 19). A week later, she assigned 2 hefty new projects to me. When I again raised concerns about my workload, she sighed, “It seems like you’re always concerned about your workload no matter what.” I was speechless.
    -I asked to outsource Project A so I could focus on Project B. She approved the request. Now she is saying that we all need to be working on Project A, and it’s not fair for my responsibilities to fall on other team members. But none of my responsibilities have fallen onto other team members! I’ve outsourced them, and I provide weekly updates on the contractors’ progress, so she hasn’t forgotten. She is still concerned that I am “refusing” to do Project A.

    I’m extremely worried that the impression she has of me is “difficult to work with, chronic complainer, refuses to perform core job responsibilities.” I have never had this problem with any of my past supervisors. I’m concerned that her evaluation of my performance will impact my opportunities to continue advancing. I have tried addressing her concerns in the moment, but her negative perception persists.

    Any advice?

    1. irene adler*

      Not advice- sorry. It is disconcerting -to me- that this director is not giving you the benefit of the doubt. Why? (I recognize you can’t answer that question. But I would wonder about it, if I were you.)

      I don’t want to instill worry; but maybe there’s something else going on here. Is she setting you up for losing your job? Is she not detail – oriented such that she does not track the ‘goings on’ with projects and who is doing what? Or does she not really care? Is she one that deflects everything back onto the other person (you, in this case) instead of working to remedy issues?

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Her reactions to your completely legitimate workload concerns are problematic. Blowing off your concerns and being negative about the situation and about you does not bode well unless something changes.

      Can you figure out what she cares most about, or is most convinced by, and appeal to that? One way to do that might be to reframe how you present the weekly updates on Project A. Your contribution to Project A is this progress, that just happens to be done by contractors. You’re not taking credit for the contractors’ work, you’re just making it clear that your effort in support of Project A is to manage the contractors and make sure their work is valuable to the project.

      If she is appeased by that, she might be a facts-first person (clearly you are helping indirectly by ensuring work is getting done, and therefore are supporting Project A).
      If she’s not and feels like you’re still refusing to do Project A because you personally aren’t doing direct work, she might be a passion-first person (how come you’re not killing yourself ALSO doing this work you have no time for??).

      If she’s facts-first, maybe she needs to see some numbers so that it’s clear it’s not a *you* problem, it’s a hours-in-the-day problem. That would help her see you’re trying to fit 20 (or whatever) hours of work in an 8 hour day every day. Then you can ask her for her recommendations on how to prioritize those projects.

      If she’s a passion-first person, make it clear that you’re someone who deeply cares about their work and is concerned that the current overload situation risks less good outcomes. As in, you really want these (manageable number of) key projects to succeed, and better if they’re projects you know she cares most about/make her look good. You really want to put your best efforts into those projects, and you’re concerned that all the rest of it is taking up your energy. And ask her how she would like you to proceed.

      There’s a pretty good change that no strategy is going to work and she just flat refuses to manage appropriately, which sucks but it does give you useful information about what the future looks like.

  121. Grizabella, the Glamour Cat*

    Using a throwaway for this: I am selling my house and downsizing. There is a gorgeous, full of amenities 55+ community near me where I hope to buy. I can stay here near my “chosen family” and familiar surroundings. My question is: Is this going to render me unemployable once someone notices my address? (Which would be familiar to someone who knows my city. Maybe not to someone in the wider area.)

    Right now, I am planning to temp and freelance as I wind down my career (took a break for caregiving) – because at this time in my life I just want something that is not toxic, is not customer service or retail, and will bump up my Social Security, and/or delay my having to take it.

    I live in a suburb of a major metropolitan area and have good skills. As I said, I’m not looking for a career job, just a Joe or Josephine desk job in a not-toxic environment. I’m fine with perma-temping. I suppose I want to hear “employers don’t think it’s 2012 anymore and won’t look for an excuse to reject you.” If it helps, I am a cis woman, and I don’t know if I look “my age” but I’m pretty obviously past the point of spring chickenhood.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Is anyone really going to recognize the address of this community? Honestly, that seems pretty unlikely.

    2. No Tribble At All*

      Can be solved by not putting your full address on your resume. I don’t for privacy reasons anyways. When you list your full contact information (email, phone), just put your town instead of “1234 Old People Rd, Townsville”

      1. Grizabella, the Glamour Cat*

        I usually just put my phone, email, and LinkedIn profile on my resume. However, actual applications (why bother with these if the person is going to submit a resume? Isn’t that just another hoop to jump through) may want my address. I don’t know how much of a fine tooth comb is used to go over these. I’m sure just bots look at most of them.

    3. Can't think of a funny name*

      Can you just leave the address off your resume…or just put city, state. I think anything you can do to minimize giving people a reason to reject you is a good idea.

      1. Can't think of a funny name*

        And I was too slow at typing…sorry for repeating what No Tribble At All said, lol.

    4. AllTheBirds*

      Don’t put your address on your resume. In fact, if you’re in a suburb of a major metro, use the major metro as your location.

      Grizabell Cat
      Memphis, TN
      LinkedIn: (link)
      Mobile: xxxx

    5. madge*

      I’ve been applying to jobs recently and it’s impossible to move through some processes without a full address, so would a P.O. Box work?

      My goal is to move into Latitude Margaritaville the second I turn 55 (I’m late 40s) so I’m with you.

      1. Autocorrect Anonymous*

        I don’t see why not. I have a PO box I use for complaining to congresscritters etc. so my true address doesn’t get entered into the public record. If they insist on a street address, I just write it as the [street address of the post office] #[pob number] so it looks like an apartment number or something.

        1. Grizabella, the Glamour Cat*

          I’ve been thinking about getting a PO Box just for privacy and to cut down on nuisance mail anyway, so that is a thought.

          My guess is that the address would probably not ring a bell outside my immediate city and/or a really sharp and probing HR person. So, I won’t worry too much.

          (This community, btw, I was really wary of until I found out it had a cannabis club, a LGBT club, an atheists club, a Unitarian club – in other words, more friendly to the kind of person I am than I would have thought. I look forward to being a purple haired member in good standing!)

  122. ecnaseener*

    TIL that my phone’s autocorrect changes “softphone” (the software phone we use for WFH) to………softporno. Thankfully I noticed in time. That would’ve been a mortification story for the ages O.o

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      At least on an iPhone or iPad, if you go into settings > general > keyboard > text replacement, hit the plus in the upper right corner, and put softphone (or whatever word you’re using that your phone doesn’t recognize) into the top box and save, it should not autocorrect that word anymore.

      You don’t have to put anything in the bottom box — the second box is for things like, if you put [123 Main Street Apt 789-C] in the top box and then “myaddress” in the bottom one, then when you type “myaddress” it should autocorrect to “123 Main Street Apt 789-C”. But you can also just leave it blank.

  123. Alex*

    I’m really struggling with how to handle my performance review this year. For our review process, we write our own “self review” which includes accomplishments from this year and goals for the coming year.

    Over the past few years, I’ve become extremely frustrated that a) I found out the goals I’d been setting for myself (and that had been approved by my manager) were well WELL beyond what anyone else had been doing, yet I was denied promotions or job description revisions, and b) the goals that my boss and I set last year involved some action on my boss, which she didn’t do, and when I asked her about it she shrugged and said she didn’t care.

    I’m at a loss as to how to prepare a document that is supposedly documenting and planning my career growth when career growth just doesn’t happen for me. All of the “evaluation” parts of my performance reviews have been stellar, always, so it is not that I am not meeting expectations. I just simply can’t advance here because my boss thinks that my job description cannot be expanded or revised, and there’s no other job to sort of aspire to that would be a logical move for me.

    I’m just feeling really down about my work here, very unappreciated, and very stuck. I’ve been job searching with no luck. I am out of ideas of how to grow my job after being shot down over and over again. I just don’t see how I can get through this process this year without telling my boss how I feel, and yet I’m 100% sure my boss would not be sympathetic or take it very well at all.

    1. AnonPi*

      All I can offer is my sympathy because I’m in the same boat. I’ve been trying to find another job the last few years as well, as the writing is on the wall where I’m at that I’m going no where here. If our managers really cared to make the effort *maybe* something could get done, sounds like neither of ours do.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Is there an HR or a big boss you can talk to?

      Yeah, it does look like leaving is your answer. As to what to write on your eval just put the same thing as last year. Then when she says something, just shrug and say, “I didn’t know what to write. So I just put that.”

    3. Policy Wonk*

      Your goals for formal, documentary purposes, should be modest. If you accomplish them you meet expectations. Think of it like school. If you do everything listed, you get a “C”. If you want an “A” you need to go above and beyond – do some extra credit. I see this a lot with my high performers. They set high goals for themselves – stretch objectives – and then get meh evaluations because they didn’t achieve the goals.

      And as you have already seen, your goals cannot include something someone else does that you cannot control. If your boss is putting her tasks into your goals she is setting you up for failure. Push back on that and don’t allow it to stand. But honestly, it sounds like she may be undermining promotion opportunities because she wants to keep you. Not good. Brush up your resume.

  124. MichelleS*

    I have been in my position (government job) for 10 months that is billeted for 2 people but a second person only came on 2 months ago. We are both close to the same age and both have many years of professional work experience. She’s picking up the role well enough, but really seems to lack the ability to solve problems or handle anything out of the ordinary that comes up. Our job has a lot of out of the ordinary and she just seems to freeze every time. For example, she didn’t get proper permissions set up for our bosses calendar to set up appointments for him, but she won’t ask him to fix the issue…she just sends everyone to me to schedule appointments with him. If we both get tasks that we have no experience with (happens all the time), I will call and ask for clarification or try on my own to determine the best course of action, she just ignores her task or asks me what I think they want. It takes up a lot of my time and I’m afraid her lack of action will make me look bad because we are the only 2 people in the section and when people send tasks they don’t know who is actually doing which item.

    1. Colette*

      Have you talked to your boss about this?

      Have you pushed back at all? In particular, “Please talk with the boss to get permissions, I can’t handle all of the scheduling”.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Stop rescuing her. Seriously.

      I’d tell her that I am going to email the boss and ask him to set up permissions for her. I will cc her. The next time it is up to her to ask the boss directly.

      The next time she won’t call someone to find out what they want on a task, do not call that person for her. Tell her she needs to call the person herself, it’s her job also, not just yours.

      She may not understand something with the phone, she may not understand that she does not need your approval, there could be a whole bunch of things going on here.

      I don’t know what you have tried so far. Has anyone even bothered to train her? Are you supposed to be training her and no one told you? For a softer approach, you can start saying “I will not do it for you, but I will answer any questions you have about the process to do it.”

      If you speak directly and still get no change then it’s time for a chat with the boss.

  125. Anony*

    I read a lot of this blog as well as the SHRM board. I’d also recommend attending SHRM webinars for the technical knowledge. Depending on the work you do, you can read resources related (i.e. LOA admin can read FMLA employer guide). Remember above all, HR must be objective and confidential.

  126. AnonPi*

    I just had to talk down our group from wanting to interview six people for an adv entry/early mid level admin job. I’m still not sure how they ended up going there – something about fairness if we decide to interview more than our top 3, then we had to interview everyone in our “maybe” group?? Like, can we not just rank them too and pick our 4th?
    Thankfully we’re now back down to just three. For now. On top of that the job has to be re-posted due to lack of diverse applicants. Is HR actually going to do anything to improve that? Nope. Just put it back up on our company job board for a week and call it good. ::facepalm:: At the rate things are going we’ll be doing good to get someone in by July 4th.

  127. fogharty*

    I have a question about addressing etiquette.
    I’m an admin in the US and I receive applications for various programs.
    The applicant puts “First Name” and “Last Name” etc. on the forms. I’ve had some applications come through with, for example, “Md Ahmed” for the first name. “Md” stands for Mohammad.

    My question is, if I send out letters that are produced via Mail Merge, and the field is “First Name” do I include the “Md”? So the salutation would be “Dear Md. Ahmed, we are pleased to inform you…” or would that be considered too casual? Or is not including the “Md” be disrespectful? I want to make sure I do not offend anyone.

    Thanks.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      You may not need to do the deeper look at this if you are already changing ‘Wm.” to “William”. You could just do the same for everyone.

    2. AlabamaAnonymous*

      I figure at this stage of the world, people should realize that what they enter as their information is what they will get back. So if the person enters “Md Ahmed” for their first name, then that’s what should show up in the salutation on a letter. That’s my 2 cents!

      1. fogharty*

        Thank you. I was leaning that way myself, but just wanted it confirmed. Most of the time their email addresses don’t contain the Md, and I guess I started over-thinking things.

    3. Llama face!*

      Ok so today was the day I learned that it *wasn’t* that a lot of families from arabic countries were naming their child with doctor aspirations in mind. This makes so much more sense now. (Though admittedly I never saw it spelled with the period to indicate a shortened form, just MD)

  128. D!*

    For those who decided to leave a new job within a year of their start date, what factors weighed into your decision—especially if it wasn’t because of a bad boss or something more obvious?

    I’ve been in my new position for about 4.5 months now. I like the team and I back their mission. But IDK, something just isn’t clicking for me and I’m not sure why that is. I’m starting to feel the urge to begin checking out what else is out there. The only way I can describe the feeling is if you’ve been dating someone for a bit and you just kind of Know that this is not the right person for you…even if they haven’t done anything wrong. But I also don’t want to leave necessarily if I don’t have a specific reason.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      When I’ve left a job in less than a year, it’s usually for one or more of the following reasons:
      * The day-to-day job wasn’t remotely what they advertised in the job description or during the interview process
      * It’s a toxic work environment / cult
      * The work load is unreasonably burdensome with little or no support

      Honestly, in those cases, I knew I had to leave. If you’re debating and not sure why something doesn’t sit right, maybe you don’t need to jump ship just yet. That said, if you’re afraid of appearing to be a “job hopper,” just look at the rest of your résumé. My guess is you don’t have a pattern of leaving most jobs after 4.5 months. This would probably be an anomaly.

      1. D!*

        Yea, all of my previous roles have been between three and five years, so I’m not worried about appearing like a job hopper. At this point in any role, though, I feel like I’m on much more solid footing and know exactly how/where I fit on the team, so I think that’s what’s throwing me with this one now.

    2. BlackCatOwner*

      My most recent jobs – I left both after 8 months!

      I worked for SaaS company and I knew 2 weeks into it that it was just a bad fit. I wanted to love the company but the *work* was just not well suited to me. It was a fabulous company but my performance was meh, and because I was seriously under-performing it definitely wasn’t going to provide me the growth opportunities I wanted. I also KNOW I can do much higher quality work so it was easy to make the decision to leave, getting a new job took awhile.

      I moved to a professional services company and there was a lot of senior leadership turn over in my department and I felt like the job I’d been hired to do and the job I ended up doing were just not the same (the person who hired me quit a month after hiring me. Their replacement quite 4 months later. Then it was vacant, and I left while it was vacant).

      You have the luxury of being picky. You’re not unhappy. You’re not desperate. Something awesome might come along. You don’t need a reason to leave. And who knows, maybe seeing what is out there will tell you that the job you have is pretty good! Maybe not – maybe something really awesome will come along.

      You don’t need a “reason” to want a new job. You can just – get a new job. Just because you can. But I’d spend some time really examining what you want out of that new job so that you CAN be picky when you apply. I was very, very firm in my recent job search – I wanted $10K above my current salary and I wanted “Senior” in my title, with job duties using specific technical skills. I was able to find that!

    3. Nervous Nellie*

      1) I gave notice at my first job on my second day, because I found out that they wanted me to work more than twice as many hours per week than what I had been told during my interview (80 hours per week instead of 37.5 hours per week) and not get paid overtime. (I did not include this job on my resume).

      2) When I accidentally found out that I was going to fired at my second job after I was there for less than one year (because my boss always fired his assistant before she reached the one-year mark, so that she wouldn’t get a raise and wouldn’t be able to take a vacation), I immediately quit. I was asked to stay on for another week, because my boss hadn’t found a replacement for me. I refused until I was told that I could spend most of my time the following week making calls and going on interviews, and I would still get paid a week’s salary. I said okay. I managed to find a new job during the following week. When I was asked to stay on an additional week, because my boss still hadn’t been able to find my replacement, I said no.

      3) I gave two weeks notice after I worked at another job for three weeks, because I was bit-and-switched into becoming the company’s new receptionist. Sansa, the woman who was supposed to take over so that I could go to the restroom and go out to lunch was EXTREMELY uncooperative. One day, when the office manager was out, Sansa hid from me and made it impossible for me to go to lunch without leaving the front desk unattended. Luckily, she showed up at 4:00 PM, and I persuaded her to cover for me so that I could go to the restroom. As soon as she sat down, I told her that I was going to lunch, and since I was entitled to one hour for lunch, I would not be returning to the office that day. I gave two weeks notice the following day. I would have given two weeks notice during my first week at that company, but I had been unemployed for a while, and I wanted to put some money in the bank. (I did not include this job in my resume.)

      4) Another company that I worked for for less than one year went out of business.

  129. Teapot Translator*

    Is there a professional, polite way to tell your manager that she confuses you because she thinks out loud (I think that’s what it is)? I asked her permission to sign up for an event and her long answer seemed to be a long analysis of pros and cons (but not asking me for arguments to support my going) and then saying yes. But it felt like she wanted to say maybe because she thought it wasn’t straight forward? I’m realizing that her lack of decisiveness is making me anxious. She’s our new (to us) manager.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Wait for her to finish and then say, “So, yes then?” You can also go with, “Then this is okay [a no-go]?”

      Sorry this is happening. Tell yourself that you will not carry her anxiousness and worry for her. It’s hers to bear not yours. Decide to just wait through her sorting process. Hopefully it will get better, but…..

    2. PollyQ*

      Probably… not? Some people are just like that. I’d see if you can get used to it over the next couple of months and try to tell your anxiety it’s her, not you. (Yeah, I know. Easier said than done.)

    3. RagingADHD*

      This doesn’t actually sound like her answer was confusing or indecisive – once she finished, she clearly said yes.

      You don’t need to interpret or anticipate what she might have been thinking at each point along the way, or gues what she “might have wanted” to say. Just wait for her to finish. She said yes.

      And no, there really isn’t a professional or polite way to tell your boss to hurry up because they are talking too much. If you are confused by something, just say so at the time – “I’m confused.” If it becomes a pattern they will either change the way they communicate with you, or (unfortunately) find someone who isn’t confused.

    4. Unkempt Flatware*

      I don’t find it rude to ask your manager to adjust their communication. I had a manager who hid her corrections in a semantic maze. In once instance, once I realized what she meant, I walked over to her and said, “boss, next time please just say, ‘Unkempt Flatware, Don’t do X Anymore because of Y’. It took me until just now to understand what you meant when you stopped by 10 minutes ago.” And she actually did from then on.

    5. Camelid coordinator*

      I do this sometimes, too, and usually it is because it is not actually a simple question. You could head this off by adjusting your own style a bit–lay out the pros and cons along with any relevant policies or precedents in an email. Then she does not have to figure out out on the spot.

  130. BlackCatOwner*

    I’m a first time manage with 2 direct reports. I’ve been at the company 2 months, one of my direct reports has worked there several years and one of them has worked there 1 month. My manager has only worked there 2 and half months. It’s a good company but the work environment is very challenging because we’re in the middle of a software implementation that is going on 4 months behind schedule. Nothing is working right, and there are NO SOPs – and a lot of the SOPs that used to be in place are being changed, so sometimes it’s hard to tell if it’s not working because the process changed, or it’s not working because the software isn’t set up right. Some of this I expected -my interviewers were fairly transparent that Q1 was going to be chaotic and challenging. We’ve now hit a higher level of chaos and challenge than anyone anticipated, though. The fact that so many of us are new employees means it takes a lot of effort to get anything done even when it is working due to (totally normally) ignorance. I have confidence most of this will sort itself out over the next 6 months, but in the meantime –

    How do I become a good manager amidst all this? It’s all very daunting, and I really want to be successful at this job. Are there books or resources anyone can recommend? I don’t have any management experience.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      To me a lot of this carries over to just managing, be kind, be fair. Listen even when you feel tired and cranky. If you make a mistake, apologize and help with the repair where possible.
      Don’t underestimate the power of your confidence that it will all work out. This confidence can carry you through a lot of situations. It can give you willingness to be patient in situations where others might lose their patience. It can help you organize things so that things start to be less chaotic. If you “see” where the group is headed you can start now setting things in place to get there. Leadership does require some visionary powers, so never underestimate the comfort/assurance of saying, “We can fix this.” or “We will get this.” or “This will work out okay.”

      I have had *b0sses* say to me that they are so relieved when I say one of these things- so it works both up and down the hierarchy.

      It sounds like for the short run a lot of your day is going to be running from fire to fire. This can get exhausting- make sure you keep up with your self-care so you don’t burn out. You now have subordinates depending on you to keep it together. I even went as far as role modeling- I drank plenty of water, I sat and finished my lunch. They will tend toward doing what you do. If you feel like you are being watched, that is because you are. The answer to that is to role model what you want from them.

      Decide that a component of your job will be subtle teaching. A lot of things I had to teach was how to make a good decision. This worked into saying things like, “In situation x, where you have a choice between doing a or doing b here is how to pick out which one to do.” Another good thing to teach is how to double check their own work where possible. I was surprised how many people would wait until I was not looking and double check their work. Good employees want to hand in good work, they don’t want the embarrassment of getting it wrong.

      Don’t forget to ask them questions such as, “Is there anything else you need from me [right now/today]?”

      Another good question to ask is, “I see we hit this problem often, not just you, I mean us as a group. What do you think would help prevent this problem?” What I loved about this question was after a bit they came up with better ideas than I did sometimes.. Try their ideas, let them see that you value these ideas. It’s not always possible to use this question, and even less possible in the beginning but you can make it your goal to start using it more.

      I started my mess by handling the recurring problems. The one-offs got patched as best as possible, but the recurring things I tried to figure out ways to stop the recurrence.

      And above all, make sure your walk matches your talk. I wanted my group to bring me mistakes and problems. This meant that I could not lose my cool, lecture them, or do other behaviors that usually drive people away. I’d thank them for asking me or showing me at the close of each conversation. Sometimes they came up with really good questions- and I point it out if something was a really good question. Sometimes they’d catch something so I would tell them “nice catch!!”.

      I did see differences at the 6 month mark, more differences at the 8-10 month mark. But it took most of a year to get to a better spot. There was a lot of chaos to deal with.

  131. TiredTeacher*

    Has anyone ever actually filed a discrimination or retaliation claim with the EEOC? If so, how did it go, and do you have any advice about the process?

    1. WoodswomanWrites*

      No advice, but I think the lack of replies is based on the late time you posted. I’m guessing you’ll get responses if you post again on a Friday thread early in the day.

    2. Standingupforwhatsright*

      I actually filed a “Charge of Discrimination” about five years ago and here is what I remember with some tips:

      Make sure you are documenting/ keeping a journal of every incident with information such as: When did the incident occur, Who was around or took part, What exactly happened, Who was notified of these incidents etc. If talking to any Supervisor, Manager or HR make sure you are sending followup emails giving a break down of what was discussed in the meetings. I would put on your read/received receipts when sending those emails. If you haven’t already start that paper trail!!

      If you can hire an attorney even if it is just to fill out the “Charge of Discrimination” I would recommend doing this for two reasons.

      ~ You will have an attorney that has been with you from the beginning and will be able to file a lawsuit once/if you receive the “Notice of Right to Sue letter”. Majority of the time a “Notice of Right to Sue letter” is issued by the EEOC. You have to file a “Charge of Discrimination” with the EEOC before you can file a lawsuit. Once you receive the “Notice of Right to Sue letter” you only have 90 days to file your lawsuit.

      ~ When filling out the “Charge of Discrimination” with the EEOC you have to make sure you list all the different types of discrimination you have suffered. Your lawsuit is based on the information you provided in the “Charge of Discrimination” and if you leave something out you may not be able to include that in the lawsuit later on down the road.

      I want to say my investigation with the EEOC portion lasted I think a little over six months. I was fortunate enough to be able to hire an attorney that handled the EEOC “Charge of Discrimination” and used the same attorney for the subsequent lawsuit. The EEOC portion was actually kind of an easy process. In my case after my attorney filed the “Charge of Discrimination” several months went by I got a letter from the EEOC saying that my employer at the time wanted to take part in the EEOC’s mediation program which is basically a meeting with you, your employer’s attorney and a mediator. This meeting is to see if both sides can come to some agreement (settlement) to dispose of the complaint. In my mediation my attorney and I were in one room and my employer’s attorney was in another. The mediator then went back and forth between the two rooms talking about each sides strengths and weaknesses of the complaint and what they thought a good settlement would look like. In the end I turned down the settlement offer and ended up filing a lawsuit. Since I didn’t settle the EEOC issued the “Notice of Right to Sue letter”. From the time I filed the EEOC complaint to the end of my lawsuit it took almost two years. My lawsuit ended up with a settlement.

      For more information you can visit: http://www.eeoc.gov

      I hope this helps you some!!

    3. EEOC winner*

      Yes. It was a long process. My contact person kept dropping the ball and I had to resubmit documentation. I was very persistent. After a very long time, I got a new contact person and basically had to start over. Honestly, they didn’t seem too interested in pursuing my case but did do some back and forth with my former employer. Finally, EEOC told me they didn’t think I could pursue it anymore but I said I didn’t want to give up. They went back to my former employer one more time which resulted in a settlement offer that was exactly what I wanted. I honestly think the fact that I wouldn’t give up and it kept dragging on just annoyed former employer so they paid me! But EEOC was not a great process. I got the impression they only wanted the really big, obvious cases, not my small complaint that my male subordinate made DOUBLE what I made.

  132. anomnom*

    I might be transitioning into a fundraising role from my current donor relations position. I’m excited and also freaking out a bit over the “asking for money” part. I currently do everything the new position does except visit donors and ask for gifts. The person this role reports to is someone I’ve known through work for several years and although I don’t know them well, I’ve always respected and liked them quite a lot. This person is also known as a great boss/colleague, particularly for professional development and I’m confident I can learn a lot from them. I have no hesitation about joining their team but I’m curious about other fundraisers who were nervous (or terrified!) to learn that aspect of the role? Or if you’ve jumped into a role where you had to learn something that scared you, how did you navigate that?

  133. Penelope F*

    Hi! I’m going to start a MLIS degree in a large city in the near future and I was wondering whether anyone had any thoughts on or experience with good jobs to have while in grad school? Ideally I’d like to work part time at a library but I’m curious to know what else might be out there.

    1. Yet Another Unemployed Librarian*

      Library jobs definitely or whatever is directly related to the specialty you’re interested in. Unless you have already been working in libraries, I think it’s very helpful to get the practical experience along with the theory.

      I worked part time in one of the subject specialty libraries at my university while I was working on my degree. They were generally happy to hire MLS students for those positions.

  134. nope*

    I have a manager who’s hard to deal with, and for my sanity I’ve decided to start the job hunt. On and off I feel like I should take *any* job to get away from this situation, but now I’ve actually gotten an offer and am not going to take it and am feeling a bit conflicted so!

    I was curious how the community weighs the following:

    Getting away from a bad situation (a job anywhere else)
    A well paying job (same rate to cost of living or better)
    A job you’re excited about
    A place you want to live

    I’ve gotten a job offer somewhere I feel ambivalent about, but it would get me away from the current situation. However, with the cost of living there, I’d be spending about half my paycheck on rent, so I’ve had to decide it’s not possible. I’m thinking if I was more excited about the job or the location then maybe that would win out, but I’m just not sure and I was curious how other people weigh these options and make choices. (Especially as I continue to struggle to make my choices.)

    1. the cat's pajamas*

      I’ve never had to make that kind of decision with the moving part involved, it seems like a huge risk, especially if the new job goes badly for some reason, you’re now stuck in a new place and potentially unemployed with a higher CoL. Do you know anyone in the new place?

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        Oops, sorry I missed you already decided to take it, but yeah that’s what I’d consider for moving. :)

    2. Fed Anon*

      I probably wouldn’t take a job that wasn’t good on at least 2 of the 3: pay, location, and a job you’re excited about. And it sounds like you’re not really improving on any of the 3 with that job, so I think you made the right decision. Maybe you’d feel better with the working environment to get away from your boss, but your new boss could turn out to be just as much of a headache. If you’re venturing into the unknown, hopefully it’s better, but at least make sure the other measures are at least as good if not better than you’ve got so you can keep the upward trajectory.

      Honestly, if you’ve been able to get one job offer, that means what you’re doing is working. So keep at the job search – this isn’t going to be the last option you have! And if you can find a trusted job search buddy to cheer you on, that might also help. I know I do better with someone in my corner, and it may help you seem less desperate. Not that I think you are necessarily showing that to employers, but you sound very eager to get out and some people can sense that.

  135. Fleebers*

    I’m now over 55 and trying to pivot from a long unpleasant career in admin work – jobs I have taken to pay the bills and support a family, not because I like them. I have a master’s degree in English and some writing and editing experience, but nothing professionally documentable. I have aptitude and interest in writing and editing – I just wasn’t able to find positions when/where I lived. Now that 100% remote is an option, I can do something else at last! I talked with a knowledgeable friend about going into UI/UX writing. Not design, but writing. He pointed me to an intro course from UX Content Collective, which I’m finishing this weekend. For me, it was a big financial hit (admin jobs here don’t pay well), and now that I’ve finished all but the final portfolio it’s pretty clear that I’ll need to take more classes – design, web development, etc.

    Meanwhile I’m avidly reading and watching job postings for UI/UX writers, and the requirements for a new job are daunting. 3-8 years of experience, must also be a designer/developer/engineer, must manage other writers. I’m not sure how I’ll acquire all those years of experience before I’m retirement age, particularly as I can’t afford to quit my FT admin job on a lark. Also, how to compete with 25-year-olds who already have the required experience, especially given that employers prefer to hire young workers?

    Is it possible to make a pivot like this, or am I wasting time and money? If it’s not, is there some other direction I should consider? Who could I talk to about it?

    1. the cat's pajamas*

      I’m not in UX, but I wonder if you could try getting some gig work on the side as a contractor? That would help you get some extra money and build a portfolio/get some experience without having to fully change jobs yet. I’ve seen online places for gig work for tech writers in the past, maybe there’s something similar for UX? Good luck!

    2. Hunnybee*

      I work in UX, and at the places I’ve worked, a talented UX Writer is like GOLD! Plus, the job market is quite good right now for UX-ers in general.

      I know many UX Writers don’t have proper portfolios, but I’d encourage you to consider that. If you can add samples of your writing alongside fully formed projects (even coursework) it’s so helpful for people to see the end product.

      Also, there are lots of opportunities for UX Writers as freelance or contract and that might be a good way to start building a body of work!

      So excited for you. I wish you the very best!

      1. Fleebers*

        Thank you! It’s good to know there’s a market for someone with my native talent. Is it possible I can find work without also doing coding bootcamp? Do I need to learn Java and CSS? The advice I see online is all over the place, everything from “businesses need good writers” to “you should be a marketing/SEO expert, designer, and coder who understands UX principles.”

        The online course does have you build a portfolio, but with one project. I’m hoping I can find a designer looking for a writer to collaborate with and get some exposure that way, even if it’s a pro bono gig. I’m planning to help a friend with no website build one for his business, and that also can be a portfolio project.

        I do write often for my day job, but not UX components at all – much longer, more detailed documentation.

    3. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Well, if you like writing there are quite a few options for you with the English degree. You could, for example, shift to a communications or marketing communications role. If you’ve been doing admin work, some of those business communications could be examples to make that shift. There are some other roles we hire for, or that I’ve seen during my 30 year career in Marcom:

      SEO content creator / writer (website copywriter)
      Social Media content creator
      Public relations (writing press releases and such)
      Technical writer and documentation writer
      Training development writer (similar to technical writers but with a focus on creating training materials)

      My AA was in graphic design, my undergrad degree is in English, and my MA is in Communications. The nice thing about this is it’s a pretty versatile field, depending on your interest, with newer disciplines like UI/UX coming up all the time. There are also good freelance opportunities. There is always a need for people who can write well on a variety of subjects! Bonus if you also have some graphic skills, or the desire to learn them.

      1. Fleebers*

        Thank you, friend. I have no love for marketing or social media, but would write related UI microcopy as long as marketing pros were doing the strategy. Not longer-form content, which is not appealing. I could definitely do training development, just no idea how to get into it without a degree in instructional design! I would love to get into technical writing, but all the roles I’ve investigated (over many years) require a technical degree+writing skills, not the other way around – and I would love if you have ideas or links. I’m certainly open, just short on time and money for getting started.

  136. Rosie*

    I’m struggling with whether to try and get my manager to actually manage me. I have a self-directed role that I love but have always had to prompt my manager for any catch-ups, reviews, development etc. The problem now is we’re in healthcare and I’m much too generally stressed and tired to chase him any more, to the point we’ve had basically no contact this year. Is this a problem do you think? Or can I just keep doing my thing and reconnect with him when (if) I have the bandwidth?

    1. ferrina*

      How much is it impacting your job? And how important are reviews and development at your organization? If your organization doesn’t put a lot of stock on reviews, don’t really pay attention to employee’s development, and it hasn’t impacted your overall job- then you could just catch up when you catch up. If you need to catch your breath, well, I’m with you. Do what you need to.
      If doing that will cause an issue, is there a different way to connect with you boss? Monthly hour-long meetings (and no other contact?) You could bring the donuts and he can bring the coffee.

      1. Rosie*

        Good points, thanks! It doesn’t impact my day to day really at all, and reviews are a formality here pretty much. As long as I get my stuff done everyone is happy. Perhaps I’ll just leave it for now but just keep an eye out for if it seems to be impacting me down the line.

        1. Fleebers*

          My manager doesn’t manage me at all and regularly cancels our one-on-ones, which is okay with me. He calls me at random when he has things to discuss. It works for us. However, if he were a different person, I would be documenting my work weekly (for my own records) and sending him a biweekly or monthly summary of projects/progress. I may start that in the next performance cycle, since it looks like I’m staying in this job yet another year…

    2. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Can you setup a regular 1-hour standing meeting monthly, or 1/2 hour meeting bi-monthly? Literally, make sure it’s blocked out on their work calendar.
      I would also create some topics or an agenda about what you want to discuss. Examples could be training, advancement, new projects, problems/issues/priorities, work/life balance, etc. I’d give this as a heads up so they see it’s important to you and they can prepare as well. Some managers are more hands-off, and sometimes you need to push for your needs a bit more.

  137. Internist*

    I’m interning in a technical field almost full time and still finishing up a class for my degree, as well as prepping to apply to jobs. I’m trying to push myself to ask more questions, but sometimes people will answer my questions by telling me to read a large technical book. Is there a polite way to say that that’s really not helpful and I don’t have time to read massive books to find out about things that are only tangentially related to my work?

    1. Perpetual Job Searcher*

      What kind of questions are you asking? Can you frame them specifically to how the question answer has experienced them? Sometimes if you make it a “you” question people find it easier to talk on a topic – this lets them off the hook from being an authority on something. I think it’s a matter of figuring out how to get the person to talk vs. direct you to a manual or resource.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I’d counter your question with another – what makes you think that your coworkers have time to teach you things that are only tangentially related to your work?

      My second question would be that if the topics are only tangentially related, why are you pushing yourself to ask questions about them? Why not focus on things you really need?

      They are telling you to read the book either because the answer to your question is more complex than you realize, or because they found that reading the book was important for their own learning and development, or because they figure you should satisfy your curiosity about tangents on your own time (or perhaps all of the above).

      If part of the purpose of this internship is making connections for your future career, I’d advise you not to tell your coworkers that their suggestions are unhelpful. That’s not going to land well.

    3. tab*

      I’ve often told a less experienced engineer that he can find the design approach in a particular chapter of a large text. I don’t expect him to read the entire book (I haven’t!), I expect him to read and use the section that is applicable.

  138. Pink Moon*

    Happy Weekend, everyone!

    I gave notice to my boss this morning and would love any great advice that any of you have for creating transition documents? My current project is a collaborative group project vs individual contribution. Much of our work is done via workshops and my team has multiple daily meetings, but I don’t have specific deliverables at this point. I’m not entirely sure how to express that in a transition document.

    1. ferrina*

      A list of projects you are one, what your role and responsibilities are on that project, and who is the project lead. So: Unique Coffee Promotions Project- I’m serving as the spiced latte advisor; my responsibility is to attend brainstorming suggestions and suggest spiced latte flavors for each month. Caffine Jones is the project lead.

      If there are any unique processes that you are responsible for, add those. On my last transition doc I also included suggestions on who should replace me in each project; that may or may not be appropriate based on your role and your workplace.

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        Also, *contact information* for the project lead (email, phone number(s), etc.) in addition to the person’s name.

  139. On Fire*

    I’m hoping someone sees this and can respond.

    I manage a Facebook page for a small nonprofit. Facebook recently notified us that “gray” pages — pages set up unconnected to a personal account — will be deleted April 23. I’ve tried to change ownership multiple ways. But the steps Facebook help says to follow don’t appear on my screen at all.

    Has anyone else worked on this and had any luck? I’ve sent messages to customer service, but who knows if/when they’ll bother to get back to me.

    1. Hippeas*

      No, but have you tried doing the steps on a different type of device (like mobile versus laptop)? Sometimes different options show up that way.

      1. On Fire*

        Mobile and desktop. But both Apple devices. Would that make a difference? Apple vs. another kind?

    2. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Facebook is exceedingly difficult lately.
      Can you connect your personal account to these pages? I literally had to create a new “personal” account (using my work email, not my personal email) and then become a manager of the company page.

      Side note: My husband’s FB account was hacked at 4am, the email and passwords changed, and then FB closed the whole account. He tried in vain to call them, but it was impossible to reach them. Horrible customer service.

  140. Ideas for coworker farewell gifts?*

    I am saying goodbye to a beloved employee in a few weeks. This person is loved by everyone and is one of those rare people who has all the skills – humility, brilliance, vision, super organized, sense of humor, likable, good leader.

    I’d like to get her something meaningful. I’m thinking of asking for cards or letters written by those she worked with, and put them all in a book for her. This would help her coworkers as well, I think, because they are really going to miss her.

    What are your favorite farewell gifts that you’ve either given or received?

    1. Csw*

      I’d ask colleagues for their favourite photos with her, then compile them in a photo book. Or if there’s bandwidth, get everyone to film a short video message, then stitch it together for her so she has a compilation from all her colleagues (can be what they appreciate, a favourite memory, etc).

  141. Csw*

    So I’m currently interviewing with a couple of companies, put in touch by a recruiter.

    When i started interviewing, my department was in a bit of a crisis and it looked like I was going to be up sh*t’s creek; but in the past month or so, it seems to have stabilised. I’m now close to the end of 2 companies’ interviews, but to be honest I’m not sure I would take either, now that my company looks more stable.

    What I’m facing is: I don’t know if going to the end would burn the bridge with this recruiter if i reject both jobs. The compang specializes in my industry, and I’ve had a really good experience with her. I don’t want to go through all of this, then leave a bad taste in her mouth if I don’t take either job!

    So what should I do? Should I recuse myself early? Should I find out the salary then reject it because its too low? How do I (possibly) extract myself but still keep things cordial, without leaving a bad taste in the re ruiter’s mouth? Chances are I’ll be looking to move in a year or 2, so I definitely want to keep her as a networking contact.

    1. Perpetual Job Searcher*

      If this is a normal, reputable recruiter I don’t think you will burn any bridges even if you continue to interview and decide it’s not the right offer or the right time to make a move. If you’re 100% sure you don’t want to leave it would be fine to let the recruiter know now that you want to withdraw, but as long as you handle it professionally it shouldn’t be a problem to work with this person a year or two down the road if you chose to do so.

  142. Perpetual Job Searcher*

    If anyone is still around… I’m actively interviewing and one of the first things HR asks is “where I am with my job search.” When I say I’m actively interviewing they invariably say something like “oh okay, so you’re just in the beginning and no need to rush your candidacy.”

    Is there a better answer? I don’t want to lie and say I have pending offers but it seems like if I don’t say something more “aggressive sounding” they take their time in scheduling further interviews.

    1. Csw*

      I’d say that I’ve been actively interviewing and am at different stages of interviews for a few different roles. That should give them a better sense of urgency without too much details.

  144. I can't believe it's a job offer*

    Is it me or are a lot of employers still hopelessly arrogant during the hiring process? I’ve been applying with several companies and was lucky enough to get several job offers, but it’s like companies don’t realise that offers are something a candidate can actually still refuse. This is a two-way street people!

    One of the employers has just sent me a (very incomplete) job offer by email congratulating me and saying that they’re happy that I’m going to work for them. But I haven’t accepted yet and we have stuff to discuss!!

    Another offer I refused and the employer couldn’t believe I said ‘no’. They came back to ask me why and sounded absolutely incredulous. “Don’t you need a job?”, they even said.

    Employers need to realise that job candidates have wishes too. But this is also the responsibility of employees to be bold, be picky and speak up for their needs during the hiring process.

    1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      Those are some really bad cases! Are you interviewing at smaller companies by chance?

      I’ve found that larger organizations tend to (only tend because they can also have their issues) have their hiring practice more buttoned up and more formalized. When I’ve been hired at larger companies, the hiring manager did not make the offer or discuss salary beyond a general range, HR does that, and also goes over benefits, so if they want you, HR are the ones you follow up with.
      When I came on at small companies, it was often very loose and more immediate, sometimes with them expecting you accept immediately without even discussing salary.

    2. eisa*

      I have a story from ancient times .. so long ago that the method of searching was looking at job ads in printed newspapers ..

      When I graduated, the job market was really bad and I had to search for quite some time.
      Among other things, I went through an application process with Huge Company; they made vaguely positive noises, “out process takes some time, you will hear from us” .. sure.
      Two months or so later, one day I come home to a ringing phone (yes, landlines were also a thing back then).
      I pick up
      “Hi, is this ? Huge Company speaking, um, we sent the acceptance letter to the wrong address but you start on Monday.”
      Me : “Oh, I’m very sorry, thank you so much, I just signed the employment contract with a different company”.
      The second part was the literal truth, that was what I had just come home from.
      The part about being sorry, not at all :-)

  145. Lida*

    I’m currently working remotely and not willing to come back in person for any amount of time before July 1 (for personal reasons). My boss is 100% ok with this, but HR knows I am working remotely and has been pushing for a return-to-office date asap. My options are to either take leave through July 1 or quit. I have been offered a new job with the same company starting July 1 and if I quit, I can just start again on my new start date, but I would forgo a COL adjustment on my offered salary (likely to be only about 1.5%). So, I’d prefer to take leave. My boss approved my leave request (she’s wonderful), but HR said I have to take unpaid leave even though I have 72 days of accrued vacation!! If I quit, I get that vacation time paid out, so it seems like it would actually be cheaper for them to let me just take it. But, they don’t see it that way. They didn’t give me a reason why I couldn’t use my vacation days. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do? I’m in the US.

    Thanks for any advice!

    *taking leave or resigning would both NOT jeopardize my promotion, so I’m not worried about that. But, I feel like this is a lose-lose situation in terms of either losing out on the COLA or taking unpaid leave for more than 2 months! I plan to stay with the organization for at least 3 more years…and potentially much longer if they keep promoting me as fast as they have in the past, so the 1.5% could add up to even more than 2 months pay long term…

    1. Hippeas*

      Can you escalate it beyond the HR person you’ve been working with? Ask them for a copy of the policy that says you can’t take vacation days that you’ve accrued and your boss has approved. Something is weird here.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Concur, the burden is on them to explain why you can’t take paid leave when you have it available and approved to take. Raise it up the HR chain. It sounds punitive to force you to take unpaid leave when you have accrued paid leave, or quit and forfeit a raise (!), all because you don’t want to come in to the office on their terms. That raises the issue of retaliation, so best to find out if the HR person is just mistaken about what you can and cannot do.

      2. Lida*

        Unfortunately, this came from the director of HR specifically, so there is no one up the chain! It’s something I have to argue directly to her if I’m going to argue it…

  146. eisa*

    Q:
    In English, are there any idiomatic expressions for people who have been in the company for a long time ?

    1. Rick T*

      How formal or informal do you want? I’ve used terms ranging from legacy, experienced, veteran and founding employee all the way down to tribal elder and OG (original gangsta) both referring to myself. I’ve been at my current employer going on 22 years and have been in my industry for 30.

    3. Squeebird*

      I’ve heard “lifer” a few times, mostly referring to people who started young and are still with the company – ie. they’ve spent most of their lives there, hence the name.

  147. aiya*

    Advertising/Marketing folks – What resources do you use to stay up to date in the industry?

    I’m a media planner, and admittedly, I’m so busy with my day-to-day tasks for our client that I have never really had the time to just sit down and read up on the latest industry news. We often put together competitive reports for our client to see what other competitors within this vertical (finance) are doing with their advertising strategies, and I’ll also get updates from our agency about what’s the latest in the advertising space. But outside of that, I don’t actively go out to look for industry specific news. What websites or resources do I even turn to for this?

  148. InnonimateObject*

    Accidentally posted this on the weekend thread. Reposting here. Thanks for any/all insight!

    “Happy weekend, everyone! If you have experience with academia I’d love your input. I’m interested in applying to PhD programs, but I fall outside the typical profile of a PhD applicant (late 30s, mid-career). I’d appreciate all the help/experience you’re willing to share about becoming a competitive applicant. If there are any websites or resources you know of that would be helpful, I’d appreciate those, too! Thanks in advance :)”

    1. peasblossom*

      I wouldn’t worry about being late 30s or mid-career (about half of my cohort fit into that criteria or were older). But your question is very field dependent. What type of program are you looking for? What will you need for your application? Often you’ll want some sort of formal written component–in my humanities-based field a writing sample of about 25 pages, which is the most important element of the application. You’ll also want excellent letters of recommendation from people in your field who have engaged with your academic work. But again, all this is very field dependent.

      General websites to check: The Professor Is In; The Gradcafe; The Chronicle of Higher Ed; Inside Higher Ed

      And a standard warning that higher ed is in a very bad place right now, and so really do your research on fields and programs so you have a sense of what they might lead to (i.e., are you going into the humanities? There are no jobs. You need to be ok with that before applying.)

  149. Maire Sinead*

    I wasn’t sure if it would be too off-topic, so I didn’t post it there, but OP #2 from the previous post got me wondering: would the answer change if they were a legally certified medical marijuana patient? I’m wondering whether prohibition 2.0 trumps the ADA on this. (Obviously, I feel it shouldn’t, but I’m biased because I’m an MMJ patient myself.)

    My tolerance is so high (no pun intended) that I can partake 3-6 times per day and remain 100% stone cold sober (which is good, because then I can actually get out of bed and do things while being in less pain). I would absolutely fail a pee test, resoundingly, but I am significantly more cognitively impaired without and would be much more of a danger to myself and others.

    Common sense makes the answer obvious, but cannabis law is not famous for being sensible, so I’m just curious if there’s any precedence for arguing a reasonable accommodation in the case of someone with medical documentation.

  150. mackerel*

    I’m an assistant manager and I’m being paid less per hour than the clerks I supervise (though I am salaried). They were all hired shortly after I was promoted; I’ve been at this place for five years. It’s a retail-style job; they do not have more technical knowledge than me or anything like that. My boss appears to have been hiding it from me.

    How should I go about asking for a raise in this context? I want to say something about how I know I’m being paid less. Would that be a bad move? Why or why not? And should I bother staying?

    1. mackerel*

      (to clarify, I was only promoted about a year ago. The clerks have all been here for less than a year.)

    2. The New Wanderer*

      If you look around at other jobs and what they’re paying, I would bring that to the manager rather than making the argument that you should earn more than the clerks. Because they might have had a better market rate when they got hired recently than you did 5 years ago, even with any raises, it sounds like you could be underpaid compared to what current market rate for your position is. However, you might only know what other jobs are paying if you apply and get an offer, but then hey, you might have an offer you want to take!

Comments are closed.